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From The Telegraph:

Israel unveils plans for 40-mile underground wall around Gaza

Raf Sanchez, gaza border
18 JANUARY 2018 • 3:35PM

Israel unveiled its plans for a vast underground wall around Gaza on Thursday, which military officials said would once and for all stop Hamas burrowing attack tunnels into Israeli territory.

The £500 million subterranean concrete barrier will run for 40 miles along the entire Israeli-Gaza border and is the first underground border wall of its kind in the world.

It is intended to prevent Hamas and other Islamist militant groups from using tunnels to launch surprise attacks into southern Israel. …

The Israeli Defence Forces (IDF) have destroyed three tunnels which infiltrated into Israel from Gaza in the last three months. A senior IDF official said he was confident that once the barrier was complete, tunnels would no longer pose a threat. “That will be it,” he said.

The barrier is expected to be completed within two years, officials said, and less than three miles have been finished so far. Underground sensors will help to detect any future tunnels while a 9-meter tall fence will prevent crossings overground.

 
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  1. whorefinder says: • Website

    Israel is the gift that keeps on giving. To us. Pointing out (((certain people)))’s hypocrisy and quieter goals.

    Read More
    • Agree: BenKenobi
    • Replies: @AnotherDad

    Israel is the gift that keeps on giving. To us. Pointing out (((certain people)))’s hypocrisy and quieter goals.
     
    Agreed, love these Israeli examples. This is what a serious nation--of a fraction of the size of the US can do.

    But the traction here is pretty limited. Hopefully you can turn the head of some Christian Israel lovers and get them thinking "yeah we deserve that too". Mostly i think those guys are already on board with a wall.

    But calling out a Brett Stevens and his type--pointless. He's "out". He has open contempt for Americans and for the idea that Americans even have a nation. You confront him with this hypocrisy/contradiction, wouldn't phase him. There is no contradiction. One is to protect a real nation with Jews. The other a bunch of nativist fascists claiming they own their own nation, which isn't good for the Jews.
    , @Lot
    I understand for some it is an end in itself to score the debating point of hypocrisy, repeatedly, that a dwindling number of secular American Jews are for open US and closed Israel borders.

    Is there another purpose I am missing? I can't think of it. My view is non ironic, genuine admiration for the only country in the world that has positive white fertility and resists Muslim demographic invasion.

    Israel should not be denigrated, but used as a role model and experimental sandbox for America, as it now serves for Europe's growing based-bloc of Hungary, Poland, Czech and Slovakia, Denmark, Austria, Slovenia and Switzerland.

    Relatedly, whose idea was it to spend more than a year building wall prototypes? My advice to DJT when he took office would have been to make a showy call to our ally requesting the Israelis start building our Wall on spec using their best current design while funding was worked out. I am pretty sure this would be legal, a part of the border wall has already been approved by Congress to be built but never funded. Heighten the contradictions in Bret Stephens head!
    , @rogue-one
    You are an anti-semite if you point it out. Walls are kosher only for ((( historically oppressed jews))), not gentiles.

    Now, you don't wanna get into a fight with ADL, do you?
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  2. Luke Lea says:

    Yes we can!

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  3. Good fences make good neighbors! (Or at least improved neighbors.)

    That said i would have thought the more “motivated” Israelis would have enjoyed having/detecting these tunnels. Seems like a great way for miscreants to advertise themselves to you for collection, intelligence gathering and “discipline”.

    Having these guys continually trying tunnelling doesn’t seem like a big deal for Israel given today’s tech. But maybe i’m missing something.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dmitry

    Good fences make good neighbors! (Or at least improved neighbors.)

    That said i would have thought the more “motivated” Israelis would have enjoyed having/detecting these tunnels. Seems like a great way for miscreants to advertise themselves to you for collection, intelligence gathering and “discipline”.

    Having these guys continually trying tunnelling doesn’t seem like a big deal for Israel given today’s tech. But maybe i’m missing something.
     

    Hamas use the tunnels to go behind the IDF lines - in one instance in 2014, they popped up behind the lines, and killed four soldiers who were relaxing nearby.

    Hamas could also build the tunnels into neighbouring villages/towns to launch a terrorist attack (although this has not happened yet).

    The entire reason for the ground operation in 2014 (where dozens of soldiers were killed), was to destroy the tunnels inside Gaza.

    -

    The tunnel project is a classic game of military measures and counter-measures.

    During the Second Intifada, Hamas used suicide bombers from Gaza (which was their most effective method).

    After withdrawal from Gaza in 2005, and fortifications developed around Gaza, Hamas used artillery rockets to go over the fence.

    After anti-missile counter-measures were developed to deal with artillery rocket fire, Hamas switched to the tunnel project (at great expense - each tunnel they build costs millions of dollars, and months of digging, with many of the diggers dying).

    Hamas also have some other strategies, like the navy commandos that dive underwater and swim along the coast to infiltrate Israel. The 'swimming into Israel' route, was only slimmly averted last time it was tried in 2014 as Israel had an observation tower and boats along the beach which spotted the commandos.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpSB-Ktz6GA


    -

    There is no end to creativity. In 1987, the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, even used hang-gliders to infiltrate Israel, which was a very successful operation for them.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_of_the_Gliders

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_of_the_Gliders

    , @unit472
    Hamas generally failed with their tunnel attacks but not always. When they captured an Israeli soldier the Israeli's had to free 1000 Palestinian terrorists from their prisons to get him back.
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  4. Lols

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonym
    "Bizarre" is Yiddish for "on point".
    , @J.Ross
    I like how they're "strange" as opposed to "self-explanatorily satirical."
    , @Cagey Beast
    Mr. Maximum Boot and his friends are probably going to go and pester Proton Mail now. Maybe they should sue them in a friendly jurisdiction in the US and then arrest anyone related to the company if they set foot in the US or one of its vassal states like the UK. Whatever it takes to make the world feel safe for Max Boot and his warmongering, paranoid, ungrateful and slanderous peer group. These people have no limits.

    Ooops, I meant to say: if we have learned anything from history, it's that the vile beast of anti-Semitism (oops, again, "antisemitism") is always about to unleash its vile tentacles of hate. If the people who run Proton Mail aren't in Gitmo by Monday, then we'll all know what a rabid antisemite the vile Trump really is.
    , @Dmitry
    All the 'open-border' NGOs in Israel (which have been successfully blocking measures to deport illegal immigrants through the Supreme Court) are funded by millions from the EU, New Israel Fund, etc, anyway.

    See this EU-funded NGO for example:
    http://hotline.org.il/en/campaigns/removing-barriers/


    ^ Scroll to the bottom of the webpage, and you can read "The project enjoys the generous support of the European Union". And even an EU flag.

    , @Lot
    Now that is some quality trolling!
    , @Moses
    Will a "Semite" here mind sharing with the "non-Semites" here exactly how the polite email received by Mr. Boot was "anti-Semitic"?

    Is it because Mr. Boot is a Jew and he doesn't like it? That seems to be the "standard"for defining "anti-Semitic" as far as I can tell.

    And yes, brilliant trolling. I especially enjoyed the "I *invasion* a future where the majority of Jews are black Africans".

    , @Malcolm X-Lax
    He got a good pounding in the comments, too. I couldn't contribute to it, however, because twitter unpersoned me a few months ago.
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  5. @whorefinder
    Israel is the gift that keeps on giving. To us. Pointing out (((certain people)))'s hypocrisy and quieter goals.

    Israel is the gift that keeps on giving. To us. Pointing out (((certain people)))’s hypocrisy and quieter goals.

    Agreed, love these Israeli examples. This is what a serious nation–of a fraction of the size of the US can do.

    But the traction here is pretty limited. Hopefully you can turn the head of some Christian Israel lovers and get them thinking “yeah we deserve that too”. Mostly i think those guys are already on board with a wall.

    But calling out a Brett Stevens and his type–pointless. He’s “out”. He has open contempt for Americans and for the idea that Americans even have a nation. You confront him with this hypocrisy/contradiction, wouldn’t phase him. There is no contradiction. One is to protect a real nation with Jews. The other a bunch of nativist fascists claiming they own their own nation, which isn’t good for the Jews.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous

    But the traction here is pretty limited.
     
    Well yeah, especially since the irony in question will never make it to the MSM.
    , @Moses

    There is no contradiction. One is to protect a real nation with Jews. The other a bunch of nativist fascists claiming they own their own nation, which isn’t good for the Jews.

     

    The most succinct summary I've seen of their position. Well done.
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  6. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Some U.S. defense contractors work on a U.S. government agency contract which works directly with Israel in developing tunnel detection technology and wall security. Your tax dollars for MIC go to Israel border security. I have to leave it at that. If Americans knew the full truth they’d be even more livid.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Neil Templeton
    Good to be building expertise at home.
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  7. I don’t think Stephens or anyone else would object to Trump building a 40 mile wall along the Mexican border so I don’t see why this is hypocrisy.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome


    ... object to ... a 40 mile wall ...

     

    Israel pop 8.5m
    USA pop 323m, 38 times more.
    The same miles per capita here would be 1,520.
    , @anon
    *hand-rubbing intensifies*
    , @Anonymous

    I don’t think Stephens or anyone else would object to Trump building a 40 mile wall along the Mexican border so I don’t see why this is hypocrisy.
     
    Right? And by the same token, if Trump took some expensive, even hypocritical steps to enhance the comfort and security of chosenites, I can't see who would object.
    , @sabril
    Well let's draw this example out:

    Suppose that there was a big problem with the government of Mexico digging cross-border tunnels to kidnap American citizens. Or, to make it more realistic, suppose there was a big problem with cross border drug-smuggling tunnels. Would anyone have a big objection if the US constructed a subterranean wall?

    Anyway, to answer your question, the hypocrisy comes from the assumption that all Jews, everywhere, unless they are 100% opposed to Israel, are responsible for Israel's actions and, to the extent that Israel's actions contradict any of their values, they are hypocrites. Note that this special rule applies only to Jews and Israel. Italian-Americans are not automatically responsible for Italy's actions; Taiwanese-Americans are not automatically responsible for what Taiwan does, etc.
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  8. Anonym says:
    @A reader 22
    Lols

    https://twitter.com/MaxBoot/status/954530379003699200

    “Bizarre” is Yiddish for “on point”.

    Read More
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  9. J.Ross says: • Website
    @A reader 22
    Lols

    https://twitter.com/MaxBoot/status/954530379003699200

    I like how they’re “strange” as opposed to “self-explanatorily satirical.”

    Read More
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  10. Dmitry says:

    The fortifications around Gaza are pretty irrelevant to the US immigration debate. They are military fortifications and not related to illegal immigration, but to fighting an Islamist insurgency.

    -

    The example which is relevant from Israel, is the hi-tech smart fence along the Sinai border. The fence was created originally specifically to stop illegal immigration (although they also have to deal with ISIS in the Sinai).

    It is a simple fence, which was subsequently upgraded, fitted with sensors and radar, with command and control rooms dotted along the path, and a road for military jeeps to patrol along.The idea is just that, in order to climb the fence, it takes more time than for the military to arrive at the site. By my calculation, comparable fence along the entire US-Mexico border would cost $5-6 billion. This is the example other countries – including the US, could follow to deal with their illegal immigration problem.

    -

    It’s not very helpful to confuse the different fences/walls/fortifications in Israel. The one around Gaza has a several hundred meter kill-zone, remote control machine gun turrets, several layers of different fences, etc. And now there is an underground barrier being built to stop Hamas infiltration tunnels (which allowed them to infiltrate terrorists behind IDF lines). It’s not a relevant example – as it is not designed for illegal immigration – and there will not (and hopefully never) be an Islamist army on the other side of the Mexico wall.

    -

    Here is the Sinai fence – basically what Trump means when he talks about a ‘see-through wall’. The combination of a moderate physical barrier, sensors to detect those people near it, and army patrols to go to the site, is enough to stop illegal immigration.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome


    They are military fortifications and not related to illegal immigration, but to fighting an Islamist insurgency.

     

    We have an Islamist insurgency too, you know.


    2017 New York City truck [of peace] attack
    ...Deaths 8...Non-fatal injuries 2
    ...Suspected perpetrator Sayfullo Saipov
    ...Motive Islamist terrorism inspired by ISIL
    ...Police said he shouted "Allahu Akbar" as he stepped out of the vehicle

     

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  11. inertial says:

    If you build a wall 50 feet deep someone will find a 51 foot shovel.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Hibernian
    More like a rock drill. I'd say a 50 foot barrier raises the cost (and the noise level) of tunneling considerably.
    , @Achmed E. Newman
    I don't know about Hibernian, but I DO get that!

    LOL, Inertial.
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  12. biz says:

    Hamas, which rules Gaza, has in its founding charter the explicit goal of killing every Jewish person in the world. If Mexico’s constitution promised genocide against the United States, we’d have that border wall by now too.

    A border wall on the US-Mexico border stands on its own merits. Comparisons to the Israel-Gaza border and its active state of war are ridiculous because the situations could not be more dissimilar.

    Read More
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  13. nebulafox says:

    I think India is a better example than Israel for the US, both for propaganda and implementation purposes. Poland, Hungary, and the other Visegrad countries hiring the Israelis on how to deal with unwanted migrants and security threats are much smaller than the US, let’s not forget. India has much bigger, potentially looser borders over physically tougher terrain. Pakistan and Bangladesh have more people than Mexico, more poverty, and the former is a nuclear armed state that not so subtly has something to do with every bombing that happens in Mumbai.

    That, and as a Democracy of Color that nevertheless allows their border guards to shoot unauthorized (invariably Muslim, whether illegal immigrants or terrorist infiltrators) crossers with prejudice, it creates even more problems for our bien-pensant friends. The SJWs would likely label Israel as a pseudo-South Africa, anyway.

    Read More
    • Replies: @istevefan

    I think India is a better example than Israel for the US, both for propaganda and implementation purposes.
     
    Yes, India is the world's largest democracy and I think they even have an electoral college to boot. Their border fence with Bangladesh is also of similar size to our potential fence on the southern border.
    , @J.Ross
    India is very unapologetic about how it handles Bangladeshi migrants. It's one of the few time Israel comes off relatively better in optics.
    , @Lot
    In Modi’s home state, cheering crowds for Netanyahu flaunt India-Israel romance

    PM treated to a reception rarely seen by Israeli leaders anywhere; Foreign Ministry director says he's never seen any like it


    In Ahmadebad, tens of thousands of people lined the street, some waving Israeli flags, as Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu sped past, whizzing by massive billboards with his and Indian counterpart Narendra Modi’s faces plastered on them.


    https://www.timesofisrael.com/in-modis-home-state-cheering-crowds-for-netanyahu-flaunt-india-israel-romance/
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  14. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Some fun should be added to border walls. Why not add messages on the wall facing Mexico? Such as “If you Mexicans are so proud of your people and culture, why do you want to run from your own kind?”

    Read More
    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    Why not add messages on the wall facing Mexico?
     
    Yes, and the messages could be written in spray paint by the Mexicans themselves! I mean, who's best at it? This is one of their core competencies, so it's a win/win - doing the spray painting that Americans just won't do.

    C'mon guys! Whatdya need a refresher course? It's all outsourcing nowadays!
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  15. Dmitry says:
    @AnotherDad
    Good fences make good neighbors! (Or at least improved neighbors.)

    That said i would have thought the more "motivated" Israelis would have enjoyed having/detecting these tunnels. Seems like a great way for miscreants to advertise themselves to you for collection, intelligence gathering and "discipline".

    Having these guys continually trying tunnelling doesn't seem like a big deal for Israel given today's tech. But maybe i'm missing something.

    Good fences make good neighbors! (Or at least improved neighbors.)

    That said i would have thought the more “motivated” Israelis would have enjoyed having/detecting these tunnels. Seems like a great way for miscreants to advertise themselves to you for collection, intelligence gathering and “discipline”.

    Having these guys continually trying tunnelling doesn’t seem like a big deal for Israel given today’s tech. But maybe i’m missing something.

    Hamas use the tunnels to go behind the IDF lines – in one instance in 2014, they popped up behind the lines, and killed four soldiers who were relaxing nearby.

    Hamas could also build the tunnels into neighbouring villages/towns to launch a terrorist attack (although this has not happened yet).

    The entire reason for the ground operation in 2014 (where dozens of soldiers were killed), was to destroy the tunnels inside Gaza.

    -

    The tunnel project is a classic game of military measures and counter-measures.

    During the Second Intifada, Hamas used suicide bombers from Gaza (which was their most effective method).

    After withdrawal from Gaza in 2005, and fortifications developed around Gaza, Hamas used artillery rockets to go over the fence.

    After anti-missile counter-measures were developed to deal with artillery rocket fire, Hamas switched to the tunnel project (at great expense – each tunnel they build costs millions of dollars, and months of digging, with many of the diggers dying).

    Hamas also have some other strategies, like the navy commandos that dive underwater and swim along the coast to infiltrate Israel. The ‘swimming into Israel’ route, was only slimmly averted last time it was tried in 2014 as Israel had an observation tower and boats along the beach which spotted the commandos.

    -

    There is no end to creativity. In 1987, the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, even used hang-gliders to infiltrate Israel, which was a very successful operation for them.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_of_the_Gliders

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_of_the_Gliders

    Read More
    • Replies: @International Jew
    Cool. What's the man saying, over and over? Something like "He got out of the 'tziyakh'"?? What did I mishear as "tziyakh"?
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  16. istevefan says:
    @nebulafox
    I think India is a better example than Israel for the US, both for propaganda and implementation purposes. Poland, Hungary, and the other Visegrad countries hiring the Israelis on how to deal with unwanted migrants and security threats are much smaller than the US, let's not forget. India has much bigger, potentially looser borders over physically tougher terrain. Pakistan and Bangladesh have more people than Mexico, more poverty, and the former is a nuclear armed state that not so subtly has something to do with every bombing that happens in Mumbai.

    That, and as a Democracy of Color that nevertheless allows their border guards to shoot unauthorized (invariably Muslim, whether illegal immigrants or terrorist infiltrators) crossers with prejudice, it creates even more problems for our bien-pensant friends. The SJWs would likely label Israel as a pseudo-South Africa, anyway.

    I think India is a better example than Israel for the US, both for propaganda and implementation purposes.

    Yes, India is the world’s largest democracy and I think they even have an electoral college to boot. Their border fence with Bangladesh is also of similar size to our potential fence on the southern border.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Numinous
    I think they even have an electoral college to boot

    No, we have a Westminster-like parliamentary system.
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  17. @A reader 22
    Lols

    https://twitter.com/MaxBoot/status/954530379003699200

    Mr. Maximum Boot and his friends are probably going to go and pester Proton Mail now. Maybe they should sue them in a friendly jurisdiction in the US and then arrest anyone related to the company if they set foot in the US or one of its vassal states like the UK. Whatever it takes to make the world feel safe for Max Boot and his warmongering, paranoid, ungrateful and slanderous peer group. These people have no limits.

    Ooops, I meant to say: if we have learned anything from history, it’s that the vile beast of anti-Semitism (oops, again, “antisemitism”) is always about to unleash its vile tentacles of hate. If the people who run Proton Mail aren’t in Gitmo by Monday, then we’ll all know what a rabid antisemite the vile Trump really is.

    Read More
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  18. Dr. X says:

    Huh… I guess what’s good for the goose isn’t good for the goyim…

    Read More
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  19. @anony-mouse
    I don't think Stephens or anyone else would object to Trump building a 40 mile wall along the Mexican border so I don't see why this is hypocrisy.

    … object to … a 40 mile wall …

    Israel pop 8.5m
    USA pop 323m, 38 times more.
    The same miles per capita here would be 1,520.

    Read More
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  20. Dmitry says:
    @A reader 22
    Lols

    https://twitter.com/MaxBoot/status/954530379003699200

    All the ‘open-border’ NGOs in Israel (which have been successfully blocking measures to deport illegal immigrants through the Supreme Court) are funded by millions from the EU, New Israel Fund, etc, anyway.

    See this EU-funded NGO for example:

    http://hotline.org.il/en/campaigns/removing-barriers/

    ^ Scroll to the bottom of the webpage, and you can read “The project enjoys the generous support of the European Union”. And even an EU flag.

    Read More
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  21. Another article by proud shitholer Bret Stephens: Repeal the Second Amendment

    Read More
    • Replies: @AnotherDad

    Another article by proud shitholer Bret Stephens: Repeal the Second Amendment
     
    Like i said, Brett is "out"--he has open contempt for Americans.

    This isn't exactly a requisition order for cattle cars and camp construction but it's clear where he's going.

    At root level, this isn't very complicated: There are some people who are a good fit for American republicanism, who naturally just sort of "get" it, integrate and become fine upstanding Americans. And those who for whatever reasons--HBD, culture, resentments--don't.

    In retrospect Brett's grandparents should never have been allowed into the United States. Brett--if he was a standup guy--would rectify that mistake and leave, sparing himself the discomfort of living around us deplorables.
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  22. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @anony-mouse
    I don't think Stephens or anyone else would object to Trump building a 40 mile wall along the Mexican border so I don't see why this is hypocrisy.

    *hand-rubbing intensifies*

    Read More
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  23. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Is globalism’s aim to create a neo-pangaea?

    Geologists theorize that there was only one supercontinent where Europe-Asia, Africa, Americas, Australia, and all else had been one but then drifted apart. Over time, life forms developed in separate continents.
    But with modern technology of communication and transportation, globalism can sustain sea-and-air bridges to make all the world accessible to one another. In this game, those who breed more will take over those who breed less.

    Suppose US wasn’t connected only to Mexico. Suppose it was attached to India and Africa on the eastern side and attached to China and Muslim world on its western side. Suppose all those people could cross over into the US like Mexicans from the south.

    Would Durbin and Stephens welcome those people too? No walls?

    Speaking of Stephens’ ancestors running from pogroms in the Old World, did it ever occur to him that the US was created by ‘pogroms’ against American Indians? And it wasn’t just Old Hickory who drove out the red man. There were Jews like the Levis who sold clothing, food, and guns to whites to pogromize the Indians. And Israel was created with a pogrom called Nakba.

    But if pogroms benefit Jews, they are good… I suppose.

    Read More
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  24. J.Ross says: • Website

    OT Farm attacks in SA (which the mainstream media reminds you are not happening) now benefit from cell phone jamming equipment

    http://boards.4chan.org/k/thread/36540155

    Read More
    • Replies: @Joe Stalin
    'Net-centric" warfare comes to the Farm. Truly the 21st century has arrived. The New Age equivalent of cutting the telephone line.

    The farmers all need FN-FALs with Gen 3 night vision at a minimum.
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  25. J.Ross says: • Website
    @nebulafox
    I think India is a better example than Israel for the US, both for propaganda and implementation purposes. Poland, Hungary, and the other Visegrad countries hiring the Israelis on how to deal with unwanted migrants and security threats are much smaller than the US, let's not forget. India has much bigger, potentially looser borders over physically tougher terrain. Pakistan and Bangladesh have more people than Mexico, more poverty, and the former is a nuclear armed state that not so subtly has something to do with every bombing that happens in Mumbai.

    That, and as a Democracy of Color that nevertheless allows their border guards to shoot unauthorized (invariably Muslim, whether illegal immigrants or terrorist infiltrators) crossers with prejudice, it creates even more problems for our bien-pensant friends. The SJWs would likely label Israel as a pseudo-South Africa, anyway.

    India is very unapologetic about how it handles Bangladeshi migrants. It’s one of the few time Israel comes off relatively better in optics.

    Read More
    • Replies: @nebulafox
    Yep. But apart from the fact that India's example is probably more useful for the US in terms of practical implementation, the propaganda value is what counts. The lefties will never be able to claim "Well, what do you expect, that's an apartheid, white supremacist state." with India.

    (Never mind that Israel is hardly a shining example of white supremacy-the Jewish population there is pretty multi-cultural and is as heavily of Middle Eastern extraction as Russian/European. Whatever Israel's flaws, the apartheid comparison breaks down when even the most basic objective analysis is introduced. You'll see Arab Christian and Muslim babies born in the same ward as Jews. That would have never happened between blacks and whites in apartheid South Africa.)

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  26. unit472 says:
    @AnotherDad
    Good fences make good neighbors! (Or at least improved neighbors.)

    That said i would have thought the more "motivated" Israelis would have enjoyed having/detecting these tunnels. Seems like a great way for miscreants to advertise themselves to you for collection, intelligence gathering and "discipline".

    Having these guys continually trying tunnelling doesn't seem like a big deal for Israel given today's tech. But maybe i'm missing something.

    Hamas generally failed with their tunnel attacks but not always. When they captured an Israeli soldier the Israeli’s had to free 1000 Palestinian terrorists from their prisons to get him back.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous

    1000 Palestinian terrorists
     
    Can't help but notice how ineffectual these thousands of terrorists are...
    , @Anon

    the Israeli’s had to free 1000 Palestinian terrorists
     
    Not sure you're up to speed on who the real terrorists are, young fellow.
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  27. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

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  28. J.Ross says: • Website

    Follow-up, that /k/ thread has been pruned. It was legitimate and its pruning is another reason to take screencaps. You never know what will be shut down next.
    tldr Black gangs have mysteriously obtained top level ordnance, tech, and armored vehicles from the nation’s military, you know, just like happens in Mexico with cartels or in Muslim countries with terrorists.

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  29. Israel is the best thing that has happened to the nationalist cause in the West post-WW2.

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  30. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @AnotherDad

    Israel is the gift that keeps on giving. To us. Pointing out (((certain people)))’s hypocrisy and quieter goals.
     
    Agreed, love these Israeli examples. This is what a serious nation--of a fraction of the size of the US can do.

    But the traction here is pretty limited. Hopefully you can turn the head of some Christian Israel lovers and get them thinking "yeah we deserve that too". Mostly i think those guys are already on board with a wall.

    But calling out a Brett Stevens and his type--pointless. He's "out". He has open contempt for Americans and for the idea that Americans even have a nation. You confront him with this hypocrisy/contradiction, wouldn't phase him. There is no contradiction. One is to protect a real nation with Jews. The other a bunch of nativist fascists claiming they own their own nation, which isn't good for the Jews.

    But the traction here is pretty limited.

    Well yeah, especially since the irony in question will never make it to the MSM.

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  31. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    A subterranean concrete barrier wont work. The crafty devils will just get a bigger ladder, err, I mean dig deeper.

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  32. Numinous says:
    @istevefan

    I think India is a better example than Israel for the US, both for propaganda and implementation purposes.
     
    Yes, India is the world's largest democracy and I think they even have an electoral college to boot. Their border fence with Bangladesh is also of similar size to our potential fence on the southern border.

    I think they even have an electoral college to boot

    No, we have a Westminster-like parliamentary system.

    Read More
    • Replies: @istevefan
    I did not know for sure. I came across this at wikipedia. I always assumed they would have a system more similar to Britain because of the shared history. But I was confused by that wiki entry.
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  33. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    “…Their border fence with Bangladesh is also of similar size to our potential fence on the southern border…”

    A Serious Wall:

    Moroccan Western Sahara Wall:

    “…an approximately 2,700 km (1,700 mi) long structure, mostly a sand wall (or “berm”), running through Western Sahara and the southeastern portion of Morocco…

    Not your kinder, gentler Wall:

    “…consist of sand and stone walls or berms about 3 m (10 ft) in height, with bunkers, fences and landmines throughout. The barrier minebelt that runs along the structure is thought to be the longest continuous minefield in the world

    …Military bases, artillery posts and airfields dot the Moroccan-controlled side of the wall at regular intervals, and radar masts and other electronic surveillance equipment scan the areas in front of it…

    …Spaced out over every 5 km (3.1 mi) are a big, small and medium base, with approximately 35–40 troops at each observation post and groups of 10 soldiers spaced out over the distance as well. About 4 km (2 1⁄2 mi) behind each major post there is a rapid reaction post, which includes backing mobile forces (tanks, etc). A series of overlapping fixed and mobile radars are also positioned throughout the berm. The radars are estimated to have a range of between 60 and 80 km (37 and 50 mi)…

    …six lines of berms have been constructed… The main… extends for about 2,500 km (1,600 mi)…”

    Kinder, gentler immigration control:

    ..In the summer of 2005, the Moroccan Army accelerated the expulsion (started in late 2004) of illegal immigrants detained in northern Morocco to the eastern side of the wall, into the Free Zone.

    …Western attention to the wall, and to the Moroccan annexation of the Western Sahara in general, has been minimal, apart from Spain…”

    “Don’t of yourself as being deported. You’re being sent for free into the Free Zone!”

    The Moroccan Wall is 1,700 miles long. The US/Mexican border is 1,989 miles long.

    Morocco has a GDP of about $100 Billion. The US GDP is about $20 Trillion.

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  34. @Anonymous
    Some U.S. defense contractors work on a U.S. government agency contract which works directly with Israel in developing tunnel detection technology and wall security. Your tax dollars for MIC go to Israel border security. I have to leave it at that. If Americans knew the full truth they’d be even more livid.

    Good to be building expertise at home.

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  35. Lagertha says:

    Sheesh. One would think even Bill Maher (so disappointed with him this year – I think he is having nightmares about orangutans eating his face off) could make a joke, finally, about walls.

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  36. J.Ross says: • Website

    OT Rumor: they’re making an update of Heathers — the nerd revenge cult cassic — and supppsedly the popular kids/bullies/revenge targets are SJWs, and the “good guys”are white and heteronormative. This could be dishonest viral marketing.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Hmmm...I recommend a 'wait-and-see' attitude toward anything from Establishment Media being teased as genuinely subversive. Except in my case it'll be a 'wait-and-not-see' sort of thing.
    , @Dave Pinsen
    Winona Ryder still looks good.

    https://youtu.be/zdNch2enw0o
    , @Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY)
    Holy Haven Monahan! At 2:00 in that "Heathers" trailer is a glasstop table scene in which "(body crashes, glass breaks)".
    , @Autochthon
    Man o man; will Hollywood ever run out of original ideas?! Such a powerhouse of creativity, those guys. I mean, gosh, I understand about getting new material produced, but it would also be cool if once in a while they revisited old classics, maybe even bastardised modernised them whilst perverting preserving the spirit of the original.

    (I assure you there will be no tasteless mockery of a father's weeping love for his dead, gay son, and the very idea of the underlying premise – that anyone would be ashamed of his unnatural, homosexual urges and proclivity for sodomy, rather than proud! – will not be included.)

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  37. Lot says:
    @whorefinder
    Israel is the gift that keeps on giving. To us. Pointing out (((certain people)))'s hypocrisy and quieter goals.

    I understand for some it is an end in itself to score the debating point of hypocrisy, repeatedly, that a dwindling number of secular American Jews are for open US and closed Israel borders.

    Is there another purpose I am missing? I can’t think of it. My view is non ironic, genuine admiration for the only country in the world that has positive white fertility and resists Muslim demographic invasion.

    Israel should not be denigrated, but used as a role model and experimental sandbox for America, as it now serves for Europe’s growing based-bloc of Hungary, Poland, Czech and Slovakia, Denmark, Austria, Slovenia and Switzerland.

    Relatedly, whose idea was it to spend more than a year building wall prototypes? My advice to DJT when he took office would have been to make a showy call to our ally requesting the Israelis start building our Wall on spec using their best current design while funding was worked out. I am pretty sure this would be legal, a part of the border wall has already been approved by Congress to be built but never funded. Heighten the contradictions in Bret Stephens head!

    Read More
    • Agree: Clyde
    • Replies: @J.Ross
    Dwindling? Ate you counting a mainstream media columnist as equal to the local dentist?
    , @Anonymous

    Israel should not be denigrated, but used as a role model
     
    Yes, thanks for the lecture. The point is that Israel is lauded for doing precisely what we goyim are expressly forbidden to do, by many of the same people--plus we get to pay for it. And this is just one example among many.
    , @AnotherDad

    I understand for some it is an end in itself to score the debating point of hypocrisy, repeatedly, that a dwindling number of secular American Jews are for open US and closed Israel borders.
     
    Lot, this seems off point.

    I'll defer to you--with your experience with the Jewish half of your family--about typical secular Jewish opinion. My rough take is that the median secular Democratic party voting Jew, has emotionally disconected a bit from Israel versus 25 years ago. But i'd peg them at still believing in a two-state solution and Israel nonetheless as a Jewish state. They might want to whine that Israel is being "racist" deporting African "Jews". But they don't really believe Israel should have open borders like the US. (This is a guess. We have some good polling data on voting or those Pew surveys of religious temperature, but i'm not aware of good data on these questons.)

    However, the big target here isn't the Democratic secular Jews. It's the Republican Jews, who are open borders US, closed borders Israel. There are a lot of them and they have a lot of exposure and influence, financially, ideologically, politically. (Eg. Sheldon Aldeson, Norman Braman--Rubio backer--Krauthammer, Stephens, Kristol, Podhoretz, Jennifer Rubin, Eric Cantor. Max Boot, etc. etc.) These folks are the barrier to the Republican party actually being a republican and nationalist party and representing the interests of middle class Americans. Without their work--financial and ideological--the remaining cheap labor faction wouldn't have enough clout and the cucky shills, like Paul Ryan would be fairly easy to route.

    So yeah, whatever the drift on the Jewish left it seems to me that calling out this "borders for me and not for thee" thing is definitely still a useful propaganda point for attacking the of position the open borders Jewish right--and hopefully convincing some to come around to a healthy manly patriotism for America too.
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  38. Lot says:
    @A reader 22
    Lols

    https://twitter.com/MaxBoot/status/954530379003699200

    Now that is some quality trolling!

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  39. Lot says:
    @nebulafox
    I think India is a better example than Israel for the US, both for propaganda and implementation purposes. Poland, Hungary, and the other Visegrad countries hiring the Israelis on how to deal with unwanted migrants and security threats are much smaller than the US, let's not forget. India has much bigger, potentially looser borders over physically tougher terrain. Pakistan and Bangladesh have more people than Mexico, more poverty, and the former is a nuclear armed state that not so subtly has something to do with every bombing that happens in Mumbai.

    That, and as a Democracy of Color that nevertheless allows their border guards to shoot unauthorized (invariably Muslim, whether illegal immigrants or terrorist infiltrators) crossers with prejudice, it creates even more problems for our bien-pensant friends. The SJWs would likely label Israel as a pseudo-South Africa, anyway.

    In Modi’s home state, cheering crowds for Netanyahu flaunt India-Israel romance

    PM treated to a reception rarely seen by Israeli leaders anywhere; Foreign Ministry director says he’s never seen any like it

    In Ahmadebad, tens of thousands of people lined the street, some waving Israeli flags, as Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu sped past, whizzing by massive billboards with his and Indian counterpart Narendra Modi’s faces plastered on them.

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/in-modis-home-state-cheering-crowds-for-netanyahu-flaunt-india-israel-romance/

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  40. J.Ross says: • Website
    @Lot
    I understand for some it is an end in itself to score the debating point of hypocrisy, repeatedly, that a dwindling number of secular American Jews are for open US and closed Israel borders.

    Is there another purpose I am missing? I can't think of it. My view is non ironic, genuine admiration for the only country in the world that has positive white fertility and resists Muslim demographic invasion.

    Israel should not be denigrated, but used as a role model and experimental sandbox for America, as it now serves for Europe's growing based-bloc of Hungary, Poland, Czech and Slovakia, Denmark, Austria, Slovenia and Switzerland.

    Relatedly, whose idea was it to spend more than a year building wall prototypes? My advice to DJT when he took office would have been to make a showy call to our ally requesting the Israelis start building our Wall on spec using their best current design while funding was worked out. I am pretty sure this would be legal, a part of the border wall has already been approved by Congress to be built but never funded. Heighten the contradictions in Bret Stephens head!

    Dwindling? Ate you counting a mainstream media columnist as equal to the local dentist?

    Read More
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  41. Hubbub says:

    OT:

    Vergewaltigungsskandal um Toni Sailer kocht wieder hoch: Die stern-Enthüllungen von 1975

    From German ezine Stern - any relation Steve? Old World relative, maybe?

    Read More
    • Replies: @J.Ross
    Steve explained in a previous post it's an occupational family name meaning rope-maker (cordwainer?).
    , @CJ
    My first set of decent downhill skis were Toni Sailer brand. They were made of fiberglass, which was a newfangled tech at the time, either 1967 or 1968. When I first saw Steve’s byline it was the first thing I thought of.
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  42. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @anony-mouse
    I don't think Stephens or anyone else would object to Trump building a 40 mile wall along the Mexican border so I don't see why this is hypocrisy.

    I don’t think Stephens or anyone else would object to Trump building a 40 mile wall along the Mexican border so I don’t see why this is hypocrisy.

    Right? And by the same token, if Trump took some expensive, even hypocritical steps to enhance the comfort and security of chosenites, I can’t see who would object.

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  43. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    Morning Joe

    Read More
    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    Heh, heh!! Ho, ho!!
    Morning Joe has got to go!!
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  44. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @unit472
    Hamas generally failed with their tunnel attacks but not always. When they captured an Israeli soldier the Israeli's had to free 1000 Palestinian terrorists from their prisons to get him back.

    1000 Palestinian terrorists

    Can’t help but notice how ineffectual these thousands of terrorists are…

    Read More
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  45. A billion dollar underground fence? Wouldn’t a deep minefield do the job at a fraction of the price?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Cost is no object when it's OPM...

    Gotta love it... The NYT quoted Donald Trump as a critic.

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  46. J.Ross says: • Website
    @Hubbub
    OT:

    Vergewaltigungsskandal um Toni Sailer kocht wieder hoch: Die stern-Enthüllungen von 1975
     
    From German ezine Stern - any relation Steve? Old World relative, maybe?

    Steve explained in a previous post it’s an occupational family name meaning rope-maker (cordwainer?).

    Read More
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  47. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @J.Ross
    OT Rumor: they're making an update of Heathers -- the nerd revenge cult cassic -- and supppsedly the popular kids/bullies/revenge targets are SJWs, and the "good guys"are white and heteronormative. This could be dishonest viral marketing.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2B85lYenaxE

    Hmmm…I recommend a ‘wait-and-see’ attitude toward anything from Establishment Media being teased as genuinely subversive. Except in my case it’ll be a ‘wait-and-not-see’ sort of thing.

    Read More
    • Replies: @J.Ross
    Yes and yes. SJW bullies would be an unpacking of the received notion that societal position controls morality regardless of conduct (whites can't be victims, blacks can't be racist). Too good to be true. Nevertheless interesting that they would market it as such.
    And it is a shame that the fiftysomething producer of the Star Wars mess keeled over dead. Are more women dying of heart problems as a result of taking on more stress? And could the two-week China run on a movie over-relying on overseas markets have contributed?
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  48. SnakeEyes says:

    Can’t the Palestinians in Gaza just infiltrate Israel by sea? How does this underground barrier represent a total solution? Seems optimistic.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Karl
    46 SnakeEyes > Can’t the Palestinians in Gaza just infiltrate Israel by sea?

    Israel has a Navy
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  49. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Lot
    I understand for some it is an end in itself to score the debating point of hypocrisy, repeatedly, that a dwindling number of secular American Jews are for open US and closed Israel borders.

    Is there another purpose I am missing? I can't think of it. My view is non ironic, genuine admiration for the only country in the world that has positive white fertility and resists Muslim demographic invasion.

    Israel should not be denigrated, but used as a role model and experimental sandbox for America, as it now serves for Europe's growing based-bloc of Hungary, Poland, Czech and Slovakia, Denmark, Austria, Slovenia and Switzerland.

    Relatedly, whose idea was it to spend more than a year building wall prototypes? My advice to DJT when he took office would have been to make a showy call to our ally requesting the Israelis start building our Wall on spec using their best current design while funding was worked out. I am pretty sure this would be legal, a part of the border wall has already been approved by Congress to be built but never funded. Heighten the contradictions in Bret Stephens head!

    Israel should not be denigrated, but used as a role model

    Yes, thanks for the lecture. The point is that Israel is lauded for doing precisely what we goyim are expressly forbidden to do, by many of the same people–plus we get to pay for it. And this is just one example among many.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Lot
    Is Bret Stephens a fervent supporter of Israel's wall building? Cite?
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  50. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @james wilson
    A billion dollar underground fence? Wouldn't a deep minefield do the job at a fraction of the price?

    Cost is no object when it’s OPM

    Gotta love it… The NYT quoted Donald Trump as a critic.

    Read More
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  51. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @J.Ross
    OT Rumor: they're making an update of Heathers -- the nerd revenge cult cassic -- and supppsedly the popular kids/bullies/revenge targets are SJWs, and the "good guys"are white and heteronormative. This could be dishonest viral marketing.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2B85lYenaxE

    Winona Ryder still looks good.

    Read More
    • Replies: @J.Ross
    Damn straight, she was 16 in the real Heathers and the new girl playing her character equivalent is in her mid twenties.
    , @Anonymous
    I have probably mentioned, but see her in Turks & Caicos. Intoxicating.
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  52. J.Ross says: • Website
    @Dave Pinsen
    Winona Ryder still looks good.

    https://youtu.be/zdNch2enw0o

    Damn straight, she was 16 in the real Heathers and the new girl playing her character equivalent is in her mid twenties.

    Read More
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  53. @Dmitry

    Good fences make good neighbors! (Or at least improved neighbors.)

    That said i would have thought the more “motivated” Israelis would have enjoyed having/detecting these tunnels. Seems like a great way for miscreants to advertise themselves to you for collection, intelligence gathering and “discipline”.

    Having these guys continually trying tunnelling doesn’t seem like a big deal for Israel given today’s tech. But maybe i’m missing something.
     

    Hamas use the tunnels to go behind the IDF lines - in one instance in 2014, they popped up behind the lines, and killed four soldiers who were relaxing nearby.

    Hamas could also build the tunnels into neighbouring villages/towns to launch a terrorist attack (although this has not happened yet).

    The entire reason for the ground operation in 2014 (where dozens of soldiers were killed), was to destroy the tunnels inside Gaza.

    -

    The tunnel project is a classic game of military measures and counter-measures.

    During the Second Intifada, Hamas used suicide bombers from Gaza (which was their most effective method).

    After withdrawal from Gaza in 2005, and fortifications developed around Gaza, Hamas used artillery rockets to go over the fence.

    After anti-missile counter-measures were developed to deal with artillery rocket fire, Hamas switched to the tunnel project (at great expense - each tunnel they build costs millions of dollars, and months of digging, with many of the diggers dying).

    Hamas also have some other strategies, like the navy commandos that dive underwater and swim along the coast to infiltrate Israel. The 'swimming into Israel' route, was only slimmly averted last time it was tried in 2014 as Israel had an observation tower and boats along the beach which spotted the commandos.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpSB-Ktz6GA


    -

    There is no end to creativity. In 1987, the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, even used hang-gliders to infiltrate Israel, which was a very successful operation for them.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_of_the_Gliders

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_of_the_Gliders

    Cool. What’s the man saying, over and over? Something like “He got out of the ‘tziyakh’”?? What did I mishear as “tziyakh”?

    Read More
    • Replies: @IHTG
    Siakh - bush.
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  54. J.Ross says: • Website
    @Anonymous
    Hmmm...I recommend a 'wait-and-see' attitude toward anything from Establishment Media being teased as genuinely subversive. Except in my case it'll be a 'wait-and-not-see' sort of thing.

    Yes and yes. SJW bullies would be an unpacking of the received notion that societal position controls morality regardless of conduct (whites can’t be victims, blacks can’t be racist). Too good to be true. Nevertheless interesting that they would market it as such.
    And it is a shame that the fiftysomething producer of the Star Wars mess keeled over dead. Are more women dying of heart problems as a result of taking on more stress? And could the two-week China run on a movie over-relying on overseas markets have contributed?

    Read More
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  55. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @unit472
    Hamas generally failed with their tunnel attacks but not always. When they captured an Israeli soldier the Israeli's had to free 1000 Palestinian terrorists from their prisons to get him back.

    the Israeli’s had to free 1000 Palestinian terrorists

    Not sure you’re up to speed on who the real terrorists are, young fellow.

    Read More
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  56. eah says:

    Read More
    • Replies: @Amasius
    If they were really God's Chosen People wouldn't you expect them to look better?
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  57. Hibernian says:
    @inertial
    If you build a wall 50 feet deep someone will find a 51 foot shovel.

    More like a rock drill. I’d say a 50 foot barrier raises the cost (and the noise level) of tunneling considerably.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Prof. Woland
    Back when castles and walls where the standard way of protecting the king and populace, they would frequently have tunnels going out from the fortifications. These were always top secret and being an engineer or architect working on them was a good way to be killed or blinded when the job was over.

    The cartels have the same problem in reverse. Rather then just relying on listening devices it would be far easier to infiltrate the cartels with both Humint or electronicly and then just wait for them to come up like a whack-a-mole. Mexicans are so corrupt, that infiltrating the cartels and government (same thing) would be a piece of cake. In fact, I have to believe that it has already been substantially done. If the FBI can hack into the Trump Campaign, I don't see why they can do the same to el Chapo's gang.

    The drug war in Mexico is essentially a turf war. The idea is to control the smuggling routes because that is where all the mark up is. Back in the 1970's most marijuana and cocaine came directly from Columbia to South Florida via boat or plane. Now of course there is meth and heroin. Why let the Mexicans be the middle men? Once America started using the military to track shipping it became like shooting fish in a barrel so it started coming overland through Mexico but there is nothing magical to Mexico other than the fact that we share a border. Once that gets sealed off, they are really fu%^&^.
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  58. @J.Ross
    OT Rumor: they're making an update of Heathers -- the nerd revenge cult cassic -- and supppsedly the popular kids/bullies/revenge targets are SJWs, and the "good guys"are white and heteronormative. This could be dishonest viral marketing.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2B85lYenaxE

    Holy Haven Monahan! At 2:00 in that “Heathers” trailer is a glasstop table scene in which “(body crashes, glass breaks)”.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Intersectionality. It's the intersection of Retconning and Proof of Concept.

    PS -- I got a good laugh out of imagining Robin exclaiming "Holy Haven Monahan, Batman!"

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  59. Neoconned says:

    Keep hammering this point in. This was basically Anne coulter’s point and thesi few yrs back when she wrote that column targeting Sheldon Adelson….

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  60. Karl says:
    @SnakeEyes
    Can't the Palestinians in Gaza just infiltrate Israel by sea? How does this underground barrier represent a total solution? Seems optimistic.

    46 SnakeEyes > Can’t the Palestinians in Gaza just infiltrate Israel by sea?

    Israel has a Navy

    Read More
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  61. Lot says:
    @Anonymous

    Israel should not be denigrated, but used as a role model
     
    Yes, thanks for the lecture. The point is that Israel is lauded for doing precisely what we goyim are expressly forbidden to do, by many of the same people--plus we get to pay for it. And this is just one example among many.

    Is Bret Stephens a fervent supporter of Israel’s wall building? Cite?

    Read More
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  62. IHTG says:
    @International Jew
    Cool. What's the man saying, over and over? Something like "He got out of the 'tziyakh'"?? What did I mishear as "tziyakh"?

    Siakh – bush.

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  63. Moses says:
    @AnotherDad

    Israel is the gift that keeps on giving. To us. Pointing out (((certain people)))’s hypocrisy and quieter goals.
     
    Agreed, love these Israeli examples. This is what a serious nation--of a fraction of the size of the US can do.

    But the traction here is pretty limited. Hopefully you can turn the head of some Christian Israel lovers and get them thinking "yeah we deserve that too". Mostly i think those guys are already on board with a wall.

    But calling out a Brett Stevens and his type--pointless. He's "out". He has open contempt for Americans and for the idea that Americans even have a nation. You confront him with this hypocrisy/contradiction, wouldn't phase him. There is no contradiction. One is to protect a real nation with Jews. The other a bunch of nativist fascists claiming they own their own nation, which isn't good for the Jews.

    There is no contradiction. One is to protect a real nation with Jews. The other a bunch of nativist fascists claiming they own their own nation, which isn’t good for the Jews.

    The most succinct summary I’ve seen of their position. Well done.

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  64. Moses says:
    @A reader 22
    Lols

    https://twitter.com/MaxBoot/status/954530379003699200

    Will a “Semite” here mind sharing with the “non-Semites” here exactly how the polite email received by Mr. Boot was “anti-Semitic”?

    Is it because Mr. Boot is a Jew and he doesn’t like it? That seems to be the “standard”for defining “anti-Semitic” as far as I can tell.

    And yes, brilliant trolling. I especially enjoyed the “I *invasion* a future where the majority of Jews are black Africans”.

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    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
    Probably because the email presumes that Max Boot cares about Israel's domestic policy because he is Jewish.

    I have no idea how he could be so stupid as to post it without realising that many readers would read it and think it makes a strong (satirical) point...but then I have no idea why Max is so endlessly stupid in his other writings.
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  65. rogue-one says:
    @whorefinder
    Israel is the gift that keeps on giving. To us. Pointing out (((certain people)))'s hypocrisy and quieter goals.

    You are an anti-semite if you point it out. Walls are kosher only for ((( historically oppressed jews))), not gentiles.

    Now, you don’t wanna get into a fight with ADL, do you?

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  66. @Dmitry
    The fortifications around Gaza are pretty irrelevant to the US immigration debate. They are military fortifications and not related to illegal immigration, but to fighting an Islamist insurgency.

    -

    The example which is relevant from Israel, is the hi-tech smart fence along the Sinai border. The fence was created originally specifically to stop illegal immigration (although they also have to deal with ISIS in the Sinai).

    It is a simple fence, which was subsequently upgraded, fitted with sensors and radar, with command and control rooms dotted along the path, and a road for military jeeps to patrol along.The idea is just that, in order to climb the fence, it takes more time than for the military to arrive at the site. By my calculation, comparable fence along the entire US-Mexico border would cost $5-6 billion. This is the example other countries - including the US, could follow to deal with their illegal immigration problem.

    -

    It's not very helpful to confuse the different fences/walls/fortifications in Israel. The one around Gaza has a several hundred meter kill-zone, remote control machine gun turrets, several layers of different fences, etc. And now there is an underground barrier being built to stop Hamas infiltration tunnels (which allowed them to infiltrate terrorists behind IDF lines). It's not a relevant example - as it is not designed for illegal immigration - and there will not (and hopefully never) be an Islamist army on the other side of the Mexico wall.

    -

    Here is the Sinai fence - basically what Trump means when he talks about a 'see-through wall'. The combination of a moderate physical barrier, sensors to detect those people near it, and army patrols to go to the site, is enough to stop illegal immigration.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdAPvx5nfv0

    They are military fortifications and not related to illegal immigration, but to fighting an Islamist insurgency.

    We have an Islamist insurgency too, you know.

    2017 New York City truck [of peace] attack
    …Deaths 8…Non-fatal injuries 2
    …Suspected perpetrator Sayfullo Saipov
    …Motive Islamist terrorism inspired by ISIL
    …Police said he shouted “Allahu Akbar” as he stepped out of the vehicle

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  67. Amasius says:
    @eah
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DT1f0cWVAAIgNMB.jpg

    If they were really God’s Chosen People wouldn’t you expect them to look better?

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  68. @inertial
    If you build a wall 50 feet deep someone will find a 51 foot shovel.

    I don’t know about Hibernian, but I DO get that!

    LOL, Inertial.

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  69. @Anonymous
    Some fun should be added to border walls. Why not add messages on the wall facing Mexico? Such as "If you Mexicans are so proud of your people and culture, why do you want to run from your own kind?"

    Why not add messages on the wall facing Mexico?

    Yes, and the messages could be written in spray paint by the Mexicans themselves! I mean, who’s best at it? This is one of their core competencies, so it’s a win/win – doing the spray painting that Americans just won’t do.

    C’mon guys! Whatdya need a refresher course? It’s all outsourcing nowadays!

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  70. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Dave Pinsen
    Winona Ryder still looks good.

    https://youtu.be/zdNch2enw0o

    I have probably mentioned, but see her in Turks & Caicos. Intoxicating.

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  71. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY)
    Holy Haven Monahan! At 2:00 in that "Heathers" trailer is a glasstop table scene in which "(body crashes, glass breaks)".

    Intersectionality. It’s the intersection of Retconning and Proof of Concept.

    PS — I got a good laugh out of imagining Robin exclaiming “Holy Haven Monahan, Batman!”

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  72. @J.Ross
    OT Rumor: they're making an update of Heathers -- the nerd revenge cult cassic -- and supppsedly the popular kids/bullies/revenge targets are SJWs, and the "good guys"are white and heteronormative. This could be dishonest viral marketing.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2B85lYenaxE

    Man o man; will Hollywood ever run out of original ideas?! Such a powerhouse of creativity, those guys. I mean, gosh, I understand about getting new material produced, but it would also be cool if once in a while they revisited old classics, maybe even bastardised modernised them whilst perverting preserving the spirit of the original.

    (I assure you there will be no tasteless mockery of a father’s weeping love for his dead, gay son, and the very idea of the underlying premise – that anyone would be ashamed of his unnatural, homosexual urges and proclivity for sodomy, rather than proud! – will not be included.)

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  73. sabril says:
    @anony-mouse
    I don't think Stephens or anyone else would object to Trump building a 40 mile wall along the Mexican border so I don't see why this is hypocrisy.

    Well let’s draw this example out:

    Suppose that there was a big problem with the government of Mexico digging cross-border tunnels to kidnap American citizens. Or, to make it more realistic, suppose there was a big problem with cross border drug-smuggling tunnels. Would anyone have a big objection if the US constructed a subterranean wall?

    Anyway, to answer your question, the hypocrisy comes from the assumption that all Jews, everywhere, unless they are 100% opposed to Israel, are responsible for Israel’s actions and, to the extent that Israel’s actions contradict any of their values, they are hypocrites. Note that this special rule applies only to Jews and Israel. Italian-Americans are not automatically responsible for Italy’s actions; Taiwanese-Americans are not automatically responsible for what Taiwan does, etc.

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  74. @Anon
    Morning Joe

    https://twitter.com/JoeNBC/status/954504474751635456

    https://twitter.com/JoeNBC/status/954586834113368065

    Heh, heh!! Ho, ho!!
    Morning Joe has got to go!!

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  75. nebulafox says:
    @J.Ross
    India is very unapologetic about how it handles Bangladeshi migrants. It's one of the few time Israel comes off relatively better in optics.

    Yep. But apart from the fact that India’s example is probably more useful for the US in terms of practical implementation, the propaganda value is what counts. The lefties will never be able to claim “Well, what do you expect, that’s an apartheid, white supremacist state.” with India.

    (Never mind that Israel is hardly a shining example of white supremacy-the Jewish population there is pretty multi-cultural and is as heavily of Middle Eastern extraction as Russian/European. Whatever Israel’s flaws, the apartheid comparison breaks down when even the most basic objective analysis is introduced. You’ll see Arab Christian and Muslim babies born in the same ward as Jews. That would have never happened between blacks and whites in apartheid South Africa.)

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  76. There are a couple of big advantages to having a wall that never get mentioned. The first is that a large part of the overall upfront expense of nabbing illegal aliens is paying for the border patrol and court system to catch and release garden variety infiltrators. Those freed up resources could be better spent guarding against the more organized and dangerous crossers. This is even part of the strategy of drug smugglers who are driving drugs across the border. They will send a few mules ahead and then tip off the BP as a red herring. I have never seen how many man hours and dollars it takes to apprehend and return an illegal border crosser but for every one caught, that means the border is unguarded somewhere else. If a fence does not stop the number of people tying to get in (it will) then it will make it much easier to catch those who try because they will be funneled into kill zones. Once that number reaches a certain threshold, then it will truly have a deterrent effect. (this would be doubly true if we have a secure bio-metric ID because we could ties border apprehensions with the inability to work, travel, conduct financial transactions, buy anything) which would be an even greater deterrent).

    The second thing is that by sealing the border, we will keep out the scummiest and most criminal prone of the illegals. I have noticed that when some illegal makes the news for killing a young white chick or some such, it usually comes up that he had been caught multiple times trying to illegally enter the US. It is never mentioned how or where the attempted crossings took place. I have to assume that these are the guys that will take much greater physical risk such as going further out in the desert or trying to bum rush the BP to get in. Visa jumping is still illegal, but at least these guys had the wherewithal to buy a $500 plane ticket and show real ID once.

    My third point is that by making it harder to physically cross, we will get the physically fittest of the bunch. The old, young, and female will be less likely to make the journey. This will effectively discourage family unification, and family formation for the illegals who do make it and stick around.

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  77. There’s no hypocrisy. A very large percentage of American Jews follow the religion of leftism not Judaism, and don’t care about Israel. While there are leftists in Israel, fortunately the rightists control the government.

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  78. @Hibernian
    More like a rock drill. I'd say a 50 foot barrier raises the cost (and the noise level) of tunneling considerably.

    Back when castles and walls where the standard way of protecting the king and populace, they would frequently have tunnels going out from the fortifications. These were always top secret and being an engineer or architect working on them was a good way to be killed or blinded when the job was over.

    The cartels have the same problem in reverse. Rather then just relying on listening devices it would be far easier to infiltrate the cartels with both Humint or electronicly and then just wait for them to come up like a whack-a-mole. Mexicans are so corrupt, that infiltrating the cartels and government (same thing) would be a piece of cake. In fact, I have to believe that it has already been substantially done. If the FBI can hack into the Trump Campaign, I don’t see why they can do the same to el Chapo’s gang.

    The drug war in Mexico is essentially a turf war. The idea is to control the smuggling routes because that is where all the mark up is. Back in the 1970′s most marijuana and cocaine came directly from Columbia to South Florida via boat or plane. Now of course there is meth and heroin. Why let the Mexicans be the middle men? Once America started using the military to track shipping it became like shooting fish in a barrel so it started coming overland through Mexico but there is nothing magical to Mexico other than the fact that we share a border. Once that gets sealed off, they are really fu%^&^.

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  79. george says:

    The Gaza wall is not meant to stop African infiltrating into Israel to do menial jobs. It is there because of the perpetual bad neighbor policy between Gaza and Israel and even Egypt. I personally do not get why the Gaza situation cannot be resolved and the Egyptian Israeli blockade lifted.

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    • Replies: @Art Deco
    I personally do not get why the Gaza situation cannot be resolved and the Egyptian Israeli blockade lifted.

    There is no blockade. Shipping is subject to inspection and selectively turned back. The problem is fairly simple. Gaza is run by a criminal organization called Hamas. They're not interested in any deals with Israel. Their policy is perpetual war.
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  80. @Hippopotamusdrome
    Another article by proud shitholer Bret Stephens: Repeal the Second Amendment

    Another article by proud shitholer Bret Stephens: Repeal the Second Amendment

    Like i said, Brett is “out”–he has open contempt for Americans.

    This isn’t exactly a requisition order for cattle cars and camp construction but it’s clear where he’s going.

    At root level, this isn’t very complicated: There are some people who are a good fit for American republicanism, who naturally just sort of “get” it, integrate and become fine upstanding Americans. And those who for whatever reasons–HBD, culture, resentments–don’t.

    In retrospect Brett’s grandparents should never have been allowed into the United States. Brett–if he was a standup guy–would rectify that mistake and leave, sparing himself the discomfort of living around us deplorables.

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    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Brett’s grandparents should never have been allowed into the United States.

    Why? What did they ever do?
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  81. Art Deco says:
    @george
    The Gaza wall is not meant to stop African infiltrating into Israel to do menial jobs. It is there because of the perpetual bad neighbor policy between Gaza and Israel and even Egypt. I personally do not get why the Gaza situation cannot be resolved and the Egyptian Israeli blockade lifted.

    I personally do not get why the Gaza situation cannot be resolved and the Egyptian Israeli blockade lifted.

    There is no blockade. Shipping is subject to inspection and selectively turned back. The problem is fairly simple. Gaza is run by a criminal organization called Hamas. They’re not interested in any deals with Israel. Their policy is perpetual war.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Thanks for your endless contributions. However If I wanted to read Jewish political propaganda I'd just read the MSM.
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  82. Art Deco says:
    @AnotherDad

    Another article by proud shitholer Bret Stephens: Repeal the Second Amendment
     
    Like i said, Brett is "out"--he has open contempt for Americans.

    This isn't exactly a requisition order for cattle cars and camp construction but it's clear where he's going.

    At root level, this isn't very complicated: There are some people who are a good fit for American republicanism, who naturally just sort of "get" it, integrate and become fine upstanding Americans. And those who for whatever reasons--HBD, culture, resentments--don't.

    In retrospect Brett's grandparents should never have been allowed into the United States. Brett--if he was a standup guy--would rectify that mistake and leave, sparing himself the discomfort of living around us deplorables.

    Brett’s grandparents should never have been allowed into the United States.

    Why? What did they ever do?

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    • Replies: @JSM
    Raised the kids who raised this cretin.
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  83. @Lot
    I understand for some it is an end in itself to score the debating point of hypocrisy, repeatedly, that a dwindling number of secular American Jews are for open US and closed Israel borders.

    Is there another purpose I am missing? I can't think of it. My view is non ironic, genuine admiration for the only country in the world that has positive white fertility and resists Muslim demographic invasion.

    Israel should not be denigrated, but used as a role model and experimental sandbox for America, as it now serves for Europe's growing based-bloc of Hungary, Poland, Czech and Slovakia, Denmark, Austria, Slovenia and Switzerland.

    Relatedly, whose idea was it to spend more than a year building wall prototypes? My advice to DJT when he took office would have been to make a showy call to our ally requesting the Israelis start building our Wall on spec using their best current design while funding was worked out. I am pretty sure this would be legal, a part of the border wall has already been approved by Congress to be built but never funded. Heighten the contradictions in Bret Stephens head!

    I understand for some it is an end in itself to score the debating point of hypocrisy, repeatedly, that a dwindling number of secular American Jews are for open US and closed Israel borders.

    Lot, this seems off point.

    I’ll defer to you–with your experience with the Jewish half of your family–about typical secular Jewish opinion. My rough take is that the median secular Democratic party voting Jew, has emotionally disconected a bit from Israel versus 25 years ago. But i’d peg them at still believing in a two-state solution and Israel nonetheless as a Jewish state. They might want to whine that Israel is being “racist” deporting African “Jews”. But they don’t really believe Israel should have open borders like the US. (This is a guess. We have some good polling data on voting or those Pew surveys of religious temperature, but i’m not aware of good data on these questons.)

    However, the big target here isn’t the Democratic secular Jews. It’s the Republican Jews, who are open borders US, closed borders Israel. There are a lot of them and they have a lot of exposure and influence, financially, ideologically, politically. (Eg. Sheldon Aldeson, Norman Braman–Rubio backer–Krauthammer, Stephens, Kristol, Podhoretz, Jennifer Rubin, Eric Cantor. Max Boot, etc. etc.) These folks are the barrier to the Republican party actually being a republican and nationalist party and representing the interests of middle class Americans. Without their work–financial and ideological–the remaining cheap labor faction wouldn’t have enough clout and the cucky shills, like Paul Ryan would be fairly easy to route.

    So yeah, whatever the drift on the Jewish left it seems to me that calling out this “borders for me and not for thee” thing is definitely still a useful propaganda point for attacking the of position the open borders Jewish right–and hopefully convincing some to come around to a healthy manly patriotism for America too.

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    • Replies: @Art Deco
    (Eg. Sheldon Aldeson, Norman Braman–Rubio backer–Krauthammer, Stephens, Kristol, Podhoretz, Jennifer Rubin, Eric Cantor. Max Boot, etc. etc.) These folks are the barrier to the Republican party actually being a republican and nationalist party and representing the interests of middle class Americans.

    Rubbish. Adelson and Cantor are the only people on that list who are influential. The rest talk for a living. The Chamber of Commerce lobbyist that Addison Mitchell McConnell carries water for doesn't do what he does because John Podhoretz Jedi-mind tricked him. Jeff Flake and Paul Ryan are ideologues, not people in thrall to opinion journalists.
    , @Lot
    The Kochs are more important to the GOP than everyone else on that list put together. And they are completely against immigration restrictions. So are nearly every major company CEO and billionaire founding family. You can count then exceptions on one hand. Perot, Trump, and ........ and I can't name a single other restrictionist billionaire. I suppose the Mercers are objectively restrictionists since they fund Breitbart and are Trump supporters.

    The problem is owners of capital want to make it nore valuable by increasing the labor supply.
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  84. Art Deco says:
    @AnotherDad

    I understand for some it is an end in itself to score the debating point of hypocrisy, repeatedly, that a dwindling number of secular American Jews are for open US and closed Israel borders.
     
    Lot, this seems off point.

    I'll defer to you--with your experience with the Jewish half of your family--about typical secular Jewish opinion. My rough take is that the median secular Democratic party voting Jew, has emotionally disconected a bit from Israel versus 25 years ago. But i'd peg them at still believing in a two-state solution and Israel nonetheless as a Jewish state. They might want to whine that Israel is being "racist" deporting African "Jews". But they don't really believe Israel should have open borders like the US. (This is a guess. We have some good polling data on voting or those Pew surveys of religious temperature, but i'm not aware of good data on these questons.)

    However, the big target here isn't the Democratic secular Jews. It's the Republican Jews, who are open borders US, closed borders Israel. There are a lot of them and they have a lot of exposure and influence, financially, ideologically, politically. (Eg. Sheldon Aldeson, Norman Braman--Rubio backer--Krauthammer, Stephens, Kristol, Podhoretz, Jennifer Rubin, Eric Cantor. Max Boot, etc. etc.) These folks are the barrier to the Republican party actually being a republican and nationalist party and representing the interests of middle class Americans. Without their work--financial and ideological--the remaining cheap labor faction wouldn't have enough clout and the cucky shills, like Paul Ryan would be fairly easy to route.

    So yeah, whatever the drift on the Jewish left it seems to me that calling out this "borders for me and not for thee" thing is definitely still a useful propaganda point for attacking the of position the open borders Jewish right--and hopefully convincing some to come around to a healthy manly patriotism for America too.

    (Eg. Sheldon Aldeson, Norman Braman–Rubio backer–Krauthammer, Stephens, Kristol, Podhoretz, Jennifer Rubin, Eric Cantor. Max Boot, etc. etc.) These folks are the barrier to the Republican party actually being a republican and nationalist party and representing the interests of middle class Americans.

    Rubbish. Adelson and Cantor are the only people on that list who are influential. The rest talk for a living. The Chamber of Commerce lobbyist that Addison Mitchell McConnell carries water for doesn’t do what he does because John Podhoretz Jedi-mind tricked him. Jeff Flake and Paul Ryan are ideologues, not people in thrall to opinion journalists.

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    • Replies: @AnotherDad

    Rubbish. Adelson and Cantor are the only people on that list who are influential. The rest talk for a living.
     
    Disagree Art.

    Agree that Adelson is most influential–money talks. In terms of political effect, money backing or opposing candidates is huge.

    But saying “the rest talk for a living” and hence aren’t infuential? Huh? Infuential means influencing, which talkers certainly do. Which indeed Hollywood does. We all swim in the ocean of influences from our culture–Hollywood, the broader media, academia (indirectly), as well as our friends and neighbors. That’s the whole point of endlessly repeating “that’s not who we are”. Because if you keep saying it you can convince a lot of people to believe nonsensical–heck mathematically suicidal–stuff. Why propaganda if it doesn’t influence?

    One commentator may be noise. But as a group political commentators definitely have influence. As far as i’m concerned Paul Ryan richly deserves his place in the Ninth Circle. But i have a hard time believing he’d be both believing and behaving as he does if there wasn’t a large chunk of “conservatism inc.” providing ideological cover. If the conservative commentariat was composed of people like Buchanan, Coulter, Sowell, would Ryan actually insist on being a treasonous douche bag? Certainly his constituents aren’t clamouring for it. Ryan does it because he’s come to believe it and there is financial and ideological “conservative” cover for his radical–he’s not conserving anything–douche baggery.
    , @istevefan

    The rest talk for a living.
     
    Well talkers can be influential. According to Hareetz these mostly talkers helped push a war.
    , @J.Ross
    Nobody talks for a living. Professional commentators are paid to influence the national discourse and set the boundaries of debate. If there was no chance of success in this then there'd be no paychecks. Kanye showed us what happens when a "celebrity" (thought leader) goes off-script.
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  85. @J.Ross
    OT Farm attacks in SA (which the mainstream media reminds you are not happening) now benefit from cell phone jamming equipment

    http://boards.4chan.org/k/thread/36540155

    ‘Net-centric” warfare comes to the Farm. Truly the 21st century has arrived. The New Age equivalent of cutting the telephone line.

    The farmers all need FN-FALs with Gen 3 night vision at a minimum.

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    • Replies: @J.Ross
    Saffers can have guns -- provided they jump through all the hoops, and as long as they do not actually use them. But isolated farmers have a huge inherent disadvantage and need government protection, which they will not get. They disbanded a paramilitary police force that had shown effectiveness in stopping farm murders (budget reasons of course). I love guns but a gun can't patrol a multi-acre farm and stay awake 24 hours a day. There comes a point where they just need to come here.
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  86. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Art Deco
    I personally do not get why the Gaza situation cannot be resolved and the Egyptian Israeli blockade lifted.

    There is no blockade. Shipping is subject to inspection and selectively turned back. The problem is fairly simple. Gaza is run by a criminal organization called Hamas. They're not interested in any deals with Israel. Their policy is perpetual war.

    Thanks for your endless contributions. However If I wanted to read Jewish political propaganda I’d just read the MSM.

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    • Replies: @Art Deco
    It may run counter to your roiling emotions and pointless resentments, but what's true is true. There is no blockade and Hamas makes its political program quite explicit.
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  87. CJ says:
    @Hubbub
    OT:

    Vergewaltigungsskandal um Toni Sailer kocht wieder hoch: Die stern-Enthüllungen von 1975
     
    From German ezine Stern - any relation Steve? Old World relative, maybe?

    My first set of decent downhill skis were Toni Sailer brand. They were made of fiberglass, which was a newfangled tech at the time, either 1967 or 1968. When I first saw Steve’s byline it was the first thing I thought of.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    When I was in Austria in 1980, several people asked me if I was related to Toni Sailer the 1956 Olympic ski champion. He was a national hero.
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  88. @CJ
    My first set of decent downhill skis were Toni Sailer brand. They were made of fiberglass, which was a newfangled tech at the time, either 1967 or 1968. When I first saw Steve’s byline it was the first thing I thought of.

    When I was in Austria in 1980, several people asked me if I was related to Toni Sailer the 1956 Olympic ski champion. He was a national hero.

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  89. @Art Deco
    (Eg. Sheldon Aldeson, Norman Braman–Rubio backer–Krauthammer, Stephens, Kristol, Podhoretz, Jennifer Rubin, Eric Cantor. Max Boot, etc. etc.) These folks are the barrier to the Republican party actually being a republican and nationalist party and representing the interests of middle class Americans.

    Rubbish. Adelson and Cantor are the only people on that list who are influential. The rest talk for a living. The Chamber of Commerce lobbyist that Addison Mitchell McConnell carries water for doesn't do what he does because John Podhoretz Jedi-mind tricked him. Jeff Flake and Paul Ryan are ideologues, not people in thrall to opinion journalists.

    Rubbish. Adelson and Cantor are the only people on that list who are influential. The rest talk for a living.

    Disagree Art.

    Agree that Adelson is most influential–money talks. In terms of political effect, money backing or opposing candidates is huge.

    But saying “the rest talk for a living” and hence aren’t infuential? Huh? Infuential means influencing, which talkers certainly do. Which indeed Hollywood does. We all swim in the ocean of influences from our culture–Hollywood, the broader media, academia (indirectly), as well as our friends and neighbors. That’s the whole point of endlessly repeating “that’s not who we are”. Because if you keep saying it you can convince a lot of people to believe nonsensical–heck mathematically suicidal–stuff. Why propaganda if it doesn’t influence?

    One commentator may be noise. But as a group political commentators definitely have influence. As far as i’m concerned Paul Ryan richly deserves his place in the Ninth Circle. But i have a hard time believing he’d be both believing and behaving as he does if there wasn’t a large chunk of “conservatism inc.” providing ideological cover. If the conservative commentariat was composed of people like Buchanan, Coulter, Sowell, would Ryan actually insist on being a treasonous douche bag? Certainly his constituents aren’t clamouring for it. Ryan does it because he’s come to believe it and there is financial and ideological “conservative” cover for his radical–he’s not conserving anything–douche baggery.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Neil Templeton
    "If the conservative commentariat was composed of people like Buchanan, Coulter, Sowell, would Ryan actually insist on being a treasonous douche bag? Certainly his constituents aren’t clamouring for it."

    Maybe, but I think that many of his constituents are heavily invested in moral signaling, and the status equity associated with acceptable thought.
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  90. Art Deco says:
    @Anonymous
    Thanks for your endless contributions. However If I wanted to read Jewish political propaganda I'd just read the MSM.

    It may run counter to your roiling emotions and pointless resentments, but what’s true is true. There is no blockade and Hamas makes its political program quite explicit.

    Read More
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  91. @AnotherDad

    Rubbish. Adelson and Cantor are the only people on that list who are influential. The rest talk for a living.
     
    Disagree Art.

    Agree that Adelson is most influential–money talks. In terms of political effect, money backing or opposing candidates is huge.

    But saying “the rest talk for a living” and hence aren’t infuential? Huh? Infuential means influencing, which talkers certainly do. Which indeed Hollywood does. We all swim in the ocean of influences from our culture–Hollywood, the broader media, academia (indirectly), as well as our friends and neighbors. That’s the whole point of endlessly repeating “that’s not who we are”. Because if you keep saying it you can convince a lot of people to believe nonsensical–heck mathematically suicidal–stuff. Why propaganda if it doesn’t influence?

    One commentator may be noise. But as a group political commentators definitely have influence. As far as i’m concerned Paul Ryan richly deserves his place in the Ninth Circle. But i have a hard time believing he’d be both believing and behaving as he does if there wasn’t a large chunk of “conservatism inc.” providing ideological cover. If the conservative commentariat was composed of people like Buchanan, Coulter, Sowell, would Ryan actually insist on being a treasonous douche bag? Certainly his constituents aren’t clamouring for it. Ryan does it because he’s come to believe it and there is financial and ideological “conservative” cover for his radical–he’s not conserving anything–douche baggery.

    “If the conservative commentariat was composed of people like Buchanan, Coulter, Sowell, would Ryan actually insist on being a treasonous douche bag? Certainly his constituents aren’t clamouring for it.”

    Maybe, but I think that many of his constituents are heavily invested in moral signaling, and the status equity associated with acceptable thought.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Maybe, but I think that many of his constituents are heavily invested in moral signaling, and the status equity associated with acceptable thought.

    He represents a small city in Wisconsin and the proximate small towns and rural zones, not Middlesex County, NJ.

    Here's another hypothesis: elections tell us what people will put up with, not what they want. Ryan's a Republican, he's on the level (as far a politicians go), he likely has a decent constituent service operation, and he's known for 20 years how to not step in it. The last couple of years, he's revealed himself to be one of C.S. Lewis' men without chests. That he's an open-borders ideologue on the libertarian - Jackepmish spectrum is not necessarily widely publicized in his district. For him to lose his seat, someone with the requisite political talent (not Paul Nehlen) is going to have to be the supply side for any discontent on the demand side. It helps when a Washington office-holder allows his contacts with local politicians to atrophy (see Richard Lugar for an example of this).
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  92. istevefan says:
    @Numinous
    I think they even have an electoral college to boot

    No, we have a Westminster-like parliamentary system.

    I did not know for sure. I came across this at wikipedia. I always assumed they would have a system more similar to Britain because of the shared history. But I was confused by that wiki entry.

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  93. istevefan says:
    @Art Deco
    (Eg. Sheldon Aldeson, Norman Braman–Rubio backer–Krauthammer, Stephens, Kristol, Podhoretz, Jennifer Rubin, Eric Cantor. Max Boot, etc. etc.) These folks are the barrier to the Republican party actually being a republican and nationalist party and representing the interests of middle class Americans.

    Rubbish. Adelson and Cantor are the only people on that list who are influential. The rest talk for a living. The Chamber of Commerce lobbyist that Addison Mitchell McConnell carries water for doesn't do what he does because John Podhoretz Jedi-mind tricked him. Jeff Flake and Paul Ryan are ideologues, not people in thrall to opinion journalists.

    The rest talk for a living.

    Well talkers can be influential. According to Hareetz these mostly talkers helped push a war.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Well talkers can be influential.

    Top of the trade, yes, because they're respected by policy-makers (George Will, ca. 1985) or they can light a fire under them (Rush Limbaugh). Max Boot's the beneficiary of the grant money vent-pipe.
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  94. J.Ross says: • Website
    @Joe Stalin
    'Net-centric" warfare comes to the Farm. Truly the 21st century has arrived. The New Age equivalent of cutting the telephone line.

    The farmers all need FN-FALs with Gen 3 night vision at a minimum.

    Saffers can have guns — provided they jump through all the hoops, and as long as they do not actually use them. But isolated farmers have a huge inherent disadvantage and need government protection, which they will not get. They disbanded a paramilitary police force that had shown effectiveness in stopping farm murders (budget reasons of course). I love guns but a gun can’t patrol a multi-acre farm and stay awake 24 hours a day. There comes a point where they just need to come here.

    Read More
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  95. J.Ross says: • Website
    @Art Deco
    (Eg. Sheldon Aldeson, Norman Braman–Rubio backer–Krauthammer, Stephens, Kristol, Podhoretz, Jennifer Rubin, Eric Cantor. Max Boot, etc. etc.) These folks are the barrier to the Republican party actually being a republican and nationalist party and representing the interests of middle class Americans.

    Rubbish. Adelson and Cantor are the only people on that list who are influential. The rest talk for a living. The Chamber of Commerce lobbyist that Addison Mitchell McConnell carries water for doesn't do what he does because John Podhoretz Jedi-mind tricked him. Jeff Flake and Paul Ryan are ideologues, not people in thrall to opinion journalists.

    Nobody talks for a living. Professional commentators are paid to influence the national discourse and set the boundaries of debate. If there was no chance of success in this then there’d be no paychecks. Kanye showed us what happens when a “celebrity” (thought leader) goes off-script.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Professional commentators are paid to influence the national discourse and set the boundaries of debate.

    No, they're not. The ones in broadcasting are paid to hold an audience of such size and composition that the broadcaster can sell advertising. The ones in print are paid to fill column inches, please their editors, and not induce people to cancel their subscriptions. They can influence their already established audience. To do that, they have to have established a rapport with that audience to begin with.
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  96. @A reader 22
    Lols

    https://twitter.com/MaxBoot/status/954530379003699200

    He got a good pounding in the comments, too. I couldn’t contribute to it, however, because twitter unpersoned me a few months ago.

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  97. JSM says:
    @Art Deco
    Brett’s grandparents should never have been allowed into the United States.

    Why? What did they ever do?

    Raised the kids who raised this cretin.

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    • Replies: @Art Deco
    No clue how you got the idea that outcomes are guaranteed (and over two generations) in the realm of child-rearing.
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  98. Tyrion 2 says:
    @Moses
    Will a "Semite" here mind sharing with the "non-Semites" here exactly how the polite email received by Mr. Boot was "anti-Semitic"?

    Is it because Mr. Boot is a Jew and he doesn't like it? That seems to be the "standard"for defining "anti-Semitic" as far as I can tell.

    And yes, brilliant trolling. I especially enjoyed the "I *invasion* a future where the majority of Jews are black Africans".

    Probably because the email presumes that Max Boot cares about Israel’s domestic policy because he is Jewish.

    I have no idea how he could be so stupid as to post it without realising that many readers would read it and think it makes a strong (satirical) point…but then I have no idea why Max is so endlessly stupid in his other writings.

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  99. Art Deco says:
    @Neil Templeton
    "If the conservative commentariat was composed of people like Buchanan, Coulter, Sowell, would Ryan actually insist on being a treasonous douche bag? Certainly his constituents aren’t clamouring for it."

    Maybe, but I think that many of his constituents are heavily invested in moral signaling, and the status equity associated with acceptable thought.

    Maybe, but I think that many of his constituents are heavily invested in moral signaling, and the status equity associated with acceptable thought.

    He represents a small city in Wisconsin and the proximate small towns and rural zones, not Middlesex County, NJ.

    Here’s another hypothesis: elections tell us what people will put up with, not what they want. Ryan’s a Republican, he’s on the level (as far a politicians go), he likely has a decent constituent service operation, and he’s known for 20 years how to not step in it. The last couple of years, he’s revealed himself to be one of C.S. Lewis’ men without chests. That he’s an open-borders ideologue on the libertarian – Jackepmish spectrum is not necessarily widely publicized in his district. For him to lose his seat, someone with the requisite political talent (not Paul Nehlen) is going to have to be the supply side for any discontent on the demand side. It helps when a Washington office-holder allows his contacts with local politicians to atrophy (see Richard Lugar for an example of this).

    Read More
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  100. Art Deco says:
    @JSM
    Raised the kids who raised this cretin.

    No clue how you got the idea that outcomes are guaranteed (and over two generations) in the realm of child-rearing.

    Read More
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  101. Art Deco says:
    @J.Ross
    Nobody talks for a living. Professional commentators are paid to influence the national discourse and set the boundaries of debate. If there was no chance of success in this then there'd be no paychecks. Kanye showed us what happens when a "celebrity" (thought leader) goes off-script.

    Professional commentators are paid to influence the national discourse and set the boundaries of debate.

    No, they’re not. The ones in broadcasting are paid to hold an audience of such size and composition that the broadcaster can sell advertising. The ones in print are paid to fill column inches, please their editors, and not induce people to cancel their subscriptions. They can influence their already established audience. To do that, they have to have established a rapport with that audience to begin with.

    Read More
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  102. Art Deco says:
    @istevefan

    The rest talk for a living.
     
    Well talkers can be influential. According to Hareetz these mostly talkers helped push a war.

    Well talkers can be influential.

    Top of the trade, yes, because they’re respected by policy-makers (George Will, ca. 1985) or they can light a fire under them (Rush Limbaugh). Max Boot’s the beneficiary of the grant money vent-pipe.

    Read More
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  103. Lot says:
    @AnotherDad

    I understand for some it is an end in itself to score the debating point of hypocrisy, repeatedly, that a dwindling number of secular American Jews are for open US and closed Israel borders.
     
    Lot, this seems off point.

    I'll defer to you--with your experience with the Jewish half of your family--about typical secular Jewish opinion. My rough take is that the median secular Democratic party voting Jew, has emotionally disconected a bit from Israel versus 25 years ago. But i'd peg them at still believing in a two-state solution and Israel nonetheless as a Jewish state. They might want to whine that Israel is being "racist" deporting African "Jews". But they don't really believe Israel should have open borders like the US. (This is a guess. We have some good polling data on voting or those Pew surveys of religious temperature, but i'm not aware of good data on these questons.)

    However, the big target here isn't the Democratic secular Jews. It's the Republican Jews, who are open borders US, closed borders Israel. There are a lot of them and they have a lot of exposure and influence, financially, ideologically, politically. (Eg. Sheldon Aldeson, Norman Braman--Rubio backer--Krauthammer, Stephens, Kristol, Podhoretz, Jennifer Rubin, Eric Cantor. Max Boot, etc. etc.) These folks are the barrier to the Republican party actually being a republican and nationalist party and representing the interests of middle class Americans. Without their work--financial and ideological--the remaining cheap labor faction wouldn't have enough clout and the cucky shills, like Paul Ryan would be fairly easy to route.

    So yeah, whatever the drift on the Jewish left it seems to me that calling out this "borders for me and not for thee" thing is definitely still a useful propaganda point for attacking the of position the open borders Jewish right--and hopefully convincing some to come around to a healthy manly patriotism for America too.

    The Kochs are more important to the GOP than everyone else on that list put together. And they are completely against immigration restrictions. So are nearly every major company CEO and billionaire founding family. You can count then exceptions on one hand. Perot, Trump, and …….. and I can’t name a single other restrictionist billionaire. I suppose the Mercers are objectively restrictionists since they fund Breitbart and are Trump supporters.

    The problem is owners of capital want to make it nore valuable by increasing the labor supply.

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    • Replies: @Art Deco
    The problem is owners of capital want to make it nore valuable by increasing the labor supply.

    I have a suspicion they're talking book less often than is commonly claimed. The Koch's are libertarian ideologues and have been known to advocate things not strictly in their pecuniary interest. My guess about a great many of them is that a certain attitude about immigration is a class marker, as it is for professional-managerial types generally.
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  104. Art Deco says:
    @Lot
    The Kochs are more important to the GOP than everyone else on that list put together. And they are completely against immigration restrictions. So are nearly every major company CEO and billionaire founding family. You can count then exceptions on one hand. Perot, Trump, and ........ and I can't name a single other restrictionist billionaire. I suppose the Mercers are objectively restrictionists since they fund Breitbart and are Trump supporters.

    The problem is owners of capital want to make it nore valuable by increasing the labor supply.

    The problem is owners of capital want to make it nore valuable by increasing the labor supply.

    I have a suspicion they’re talking book less often than is commonly claimed. The Koch’s are libertarian ideologues and have been known to advocate things not strictly in their pecuniary interest. My guess about a great many of them is that a certain attitude about immigration is a class marker, as it is for professional-managerial types generally.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Lot
    I agree. Of course status markers and "views that make billionaires richer" are mostly overlapping sets.

    Do the Kochs actually put ideology over profits? Most honest libertarians are concerned about the market failure of the environmentally destructive practice of coal and gas burning. But not the Kochopolis.

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  105. Lot says:
    @Art Deco
    The problem is owners of capital want to make it nore valuable by increasing the labor supply.

    I have a suspicion they're talking book less often than is commonly claimed. The Koch's are libertarian ideologues and have been known to advocate things not strictly in their pecuniary interest. My guess about a great many of them is that a certain attitude about immigration is a class marker, as it is for professional-managerial types generally.

    I agree. Of course status markers and “views that make billionaires richer” are mostly overlapping sets.

    Do the Kochs actually put ideology over profits? Most honest libertarians are concerned about the market failure of the environmentally destructive practice of coal and gas burning. But not the Kochopolis.

    Read More
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