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A Question: Do Elite African Immigrants Uplift African Americans?
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An interesting question I’ve never seen researched is whether elite African immigration to the U.S. rubs off culturally to uplift the behavior of African Americans, or do African-Americans drag down Africans.?

When an Igbo migrates to the US and, say, earns a Master’s in accounting and becomes a CPA, do his bourgeois values tend make native-born black Americans slightly more bourgeois? Or does African-American culture tend to drag down the culture of his kids?

I’ve never seen any large scale data on this question. I could imagine the answer going either way.

 
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  1. I have no idea what the answer to this is, but one thing I can tell you is this: many black immigrants immediately integrate into the gibsmedat grievance culture. People who came here from haiti or wherever and reap the benefits of a white run society have a problem with whitey and just KNOW all their problems were caused by us.

    • Replies: @Olorin
    In my experience they go to live either in their own urban ghettoes, or move into mostly white neighborhoods.

    Or more accurately the most upscale urban settings where Asians and Jews are in the ascendancy.

    They don't move in among 19th century and later arrival black Americans.

    White Americans either of founding stock or later arrivals they will hold in contempt...even while playing the grievance and gibs cultures for all they can get (white tax dollars) and attaching themselves to the most powerful blacks and Asians and the kingmaker Jews, always with an eye for the main chance and family nepotism.

    Look at Kamala Harris for a prime example. Don't just look at her campaign blatt, look at all the blatt on herself, her sister (Maya Harris, one of Hillary's top policy advisers), their mother, etc., as pumped out by American Pravda over the past 25 years.

    Another element is how black African immigrants are brought into university campuses/neighborhoods/towns ("talented fraction!")...and absorb that grievance culture quickly. I watched this happen repeatedly on several Big Ten and Ivy League campuses. The transformation of new arrivals from Huddled Mass Yearning To Breathe Free into the most rabid sorts of entitlement and reparations maws, all of whom had grandparents who died in Auschwitz at age 8--excuse me, ancestors picking cotton under the bullwhip in slavery in South Carolina--was a big redpill for me in the late '80s.

  2. It’s going to be interesting when the ghetto economy is kept afloat by Africans. See, the South Asians are eventually going to escape to the suburbs when they get the chance, just like their East Asian predecessors did. I wouldn’t be surprised if Nigerians are the ones who end up replacing them in the liquor stores and laundromats and the mom-and-pop corner shops.

    It’s going to really knock out one of the Fringe Coalition’s fundamental axioms when it becomes clear how little affinity the imported Africans usually have with African-Americans, especially in the underclass. Even the problematic immigrant groups like the Somalis who will sink to the bottom have very deep cultural and social differences that will prevent a great deal of intermixing.

    • Agree: jim jones
    • Replies: @Cale
    I live in columbus oh and we have tons of Somalis here

    They don't seem to care for black americans.

    They avoid doing business with them and are very cool to american blacks socially.

    I was told this by several american black friends and acquaintances and have witnessed it for myself many times.

    Also while I see some, theres not much cultural ruboff from american blacks onto recent African immigrants.

    Rare is it to see a black immigrant taking behavioral or stylistic cues from american blacks.

    , @PaceLaw
    Gotta disagree with you here nebulafox. While it’s difficult to speak for all African immigrants, they are largely assimilated into African American culture. Exhibit A is the recently “martyred” Nipsey Hussle, who was Eritrean and African American. Just look at other African hip-hop/pop artists who ape (pun intended) the styles and culture of African Americans. I believe Somalis are a bit of an outlier as their ass- backwards Islamic faith prevents greater assimilation with African Americans.
  3. Anonymous[305] • Disclaimer says:

    I could imagine the person pitching this research idea being exiled from academia, polite society and the job market.

    • Replies: @SFG
    That's why he's bringing it up here.

    Frankly, no clue. I suspect enough Nigerian immigrants could eventually have a positive effect, but I think you would just see stratification by class, with the new immigrants on top and the descendants of slaves on the bottom. It's perfectly clear our upper class is not only OK with diversifying its skin tone, but sees the quest to do so as a nice way of distracting the left that would otherwise try to redistribute their income.

    Of course, I'm projecting current situations into the future. Sci-fi from the 50s had housewives in spaceships.
  4. An accountant Nigerian friend, married to a physician, said many of her Nigerian friends in the US send their children back to boarding school or to live with relatives when they reach middle school.

    There is no way they want their children growing up in the dominant American black culture. Maybe they would approve of them marrying into the the top tenth of the Talented Tenth.

    OTOH, I know another woman, from one of the richest families in another African country, who is a liar and scam artist, a fraudster with an unfortunate American ex-husband and an even more unfortunate anchor baby, who could only harm or corrupt the people she associates with.

    • Replies: @PaceLaw
    Yeah, I know of other elite Nigerians and Ghanaians who prefer to send their kids to boarding school in their home countries. That has more to do with them wanting their kids learning their native culture and language as supposed to not wanting to mix with African Americans. Plus it is supposed to be very cheap as compared to private school in this country.
  5. @Anonymous
    I could imagine the person pitching this research idea being exiled from academia, polite society and the job market.

    That’s why he’s bringing it up here.

    Frankly, no clue. I suspect enough Nigerian immigrants could eventually have a positive effect, but I think you would just see stratification by class, with the new immigrants on top and the descendants of slaves on the bottom. It’s perfectly clear our upper class is not only OK with diversifying its skin tone, but sees the quest to do so as a nice way of distracting the left that would otherwise try to redistribute their income.

    Of course, I’m projecting current situations into the future. Sci-fi from the 50s had housewives in spaceships.

    • Replies: @anon
    Agree, mostly oil on water as seen with the older West Indian generations But also true that the kids - those not dispatched back to Africa- would be dragged down somewhat by African American culture. Same applies to kids from all other races, cultures and nationalities.
    , @bomag
    I suspect enough Nigerian immigrants could eventually have a positive effect

    My snarky rejoinder is that you must not know too many Nigerians.

    We've been surrounding American Blacks with White culture for a long time without much to show for it; I'm not holding out much expectation for the Igbos et al to mark a sea change.
    , @Ancient Briton
    Check out "District 9". ... It's sci fi or satire - hard to tell, anyway it featutes Nigerians in S. Africa.
  6. I don’t imagine the answer could go either way. Our blacks can’t handle competing with Guats, how will they compete against an Igbo? Africans generally don’t feel a connection to our blacks (not that they should).

  7. If busing native-born blacks to white school districts, gifting them seats next to our elites in Ivy League schools, giving them an advantage in government jobs and contracts, and inserting them into white bourgouise neighborhoods via Section 8 didn’t raise them up, why would contact with the smartest segment of the residents of the dumbest continent on earth help?

    • Agree: bomag, TWS
  8. @SFG
    That's why he's bringing it up here.

    Frankly, no clue. I suspect enough Nigerian immigrants could eventually have a positive effect, but I think you would just see stratification by class, with the new immigrants on top and the descendants of slaves on the bottom. It's perfectly clear our upper class is not only OK with diversifying its skin tone, but sees the quest to do so as a nice way of distracting the left that would otherwise try to redistribute their income.

    Of course, I'm projecting current situations into the future. Sci-fi from the 50s had housewives in spaceships.

    Agree, mostly oil on water as seen with the older West Indian generations But also true that the kids – those not dispatched back to Africa- would be dragged down somewhat by African American culture. Same applies to kids from all other races, cultures and nationalities.

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    "Same applies to kids from all other races, cultures and nationalities."

    Yup. A case has just concluded in the UK where a bunch of middle class kids in the Cheshire millionaire belt were playing gangstas - one (of Lebanese extraction) got stabbed to death by his 'bro'.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7241185/Boy-17-CLEARED-killing-private-schoolboy-Yousef-Makki.html

    "Despite the privileged backgrounds of both defendants, they led 'double lives'.

    Calling each other 'Bro' and 'Fam' and the police 'Feds', the defendants and Yousef smoked cannabis, road around on bikes, 'chilling' and listened to rap or drill music.

    They would post videos on social media, making threats and posing with 'shanks' or knives.

    The court heard how hours before the stabbing, Boy B arranged a £45 cannabis deal and the teenagers planned to rob the drug dealer, a 'soft target'.

    But the robbery went wrong and Yousef and Boy B fled, leaving Boy A to take a beating.

    Boy A then later pushed Yousef who called him a 'p****' and punched him in the face.

    He told the jury Yousef pulled out a knife and he responded by also taking out a knife and his victim was accidentally stabbed."
     
  9. I suspect them being here has a negative impact on Nigeria.

    • Replies: @istevefan
    Bingo. The West is extracting the best human resources from some of those nations. Their future development will be severely restricted due to the loss of this talent.

    For an analogy see the black community in America. Under segregation the best and brightest blacks lived in the community and provided much needed services. Now the best and brightest flee just like the Whites did, and the black community is left without its leading elements.
  10. All I can contribute to this question is that many of the African shopkeepers of one sort or another in Greensboro, NC have pretty low opinions of the local “creoles”.

  11. People assimilate towards the socially dominant group. So no, it’s not looking good for the Igbo immigrants’ children. That was your question right? Who is socially dominant?

  12. Here’s an op-ed published by a Zimbabwean website where the author, a black Zimbabwean, gives their frank assessment of African-Americans:

    https://www.newsday.co.zw/2018/03/african-americans-disgrace-black-race/

  13. Well we all know Indians bring in more Indians (hopefully qualified, but humans are tribal so they likely just want more of the same / more like themselves as opposed to more qualified people… but that’s why one hopes the system is stringent enough to keep riff-raff out).

    But I’m curious actually of the difference in behaviors between worker-class / low-wage Indians who come in as cab-drivers and low-wage-outsourced-labor-now-come-on-site and whatnot, and those who are probably higher-educated, qualified Indians. They all eventually bring their families, qualified or not.

    Just ask Melania Trump and her elite parents.

    • Replies: @Anon
    Working class Indians aren't super successful, but they're hardly an underclass. There are a lot of them in Toronto and Vancouver. Most are ordinary people.

    Their kids often do decently in school.
  14. “or do African-Americans drag down Africans.?”

    • LOL: Laurence Whelk
    • Replies: @Arclight
    Brutal.
    , @PaceLaw
    This is absolutely sublime!!! Touché my friend, touché!
  15. @MikeatMikedotMike
    "or do African-Americans drag down Africans.?"

    https://www.blazingcatfur.ca/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Jussie-Smollet-Suspects.jpg

    https://nyppagesix.files.wordpress.com/2018/05/jussie-smollett.jpg?quality=90&strip=all&w=1200

    Brutal.

  16. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says:

    The most important thing is what happens over time, over the generations. How endogamous can immigrant blacks be (including smart Carribean blacks), given their numbers and relative isolation? Will they marry black DOAS’s, black immigrants, whites? Ivy League blacks are about 50 percent non-DOAS.

    Over time it might be a Son Also Rises situation, with an enduring endogamous elite, and some lesser talented children filtering down into a mixed DOAS situation, where they nevertheless positively influence middle class blacks or else get assimilated by the DOAS, including culturally, but still with a small positive effect.

    @trelane: People assimilate towards the socially dominant group

    Jews would be somewhat of a counterexample: Yes, they are assimilating, with a lot of half and quarter Jews, but there is still a remarkably well-defined Jewish population in the U.S.

    For first generation, the YouTube videos of Carribean 20-something Desi-Rae are instructive. She is pretty red-pilled, but I expect her exasperation with American blacks is fairly common among more elite immigrant blacks.

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-uP8fChoXf3FTHyttRRkUw/videos

    • Replies: @prosa123
    Jews would be somewhat of a counterexample: Yes, they are assimilating, with a lot of half and quarter Jews, but there is still a remarkably well-defined Jewish population in the U.S.

    In substantial part that's because of the Orthodox and Hasidim. They are certainly not going to let Jewish culture be assimilated away, like what's happened to almost all other white ethnicities.
  17. I suspect “regression toward the mean” operates here. Because so far immigration from Africa to the US has not been that massive, those coming here tend to be the cream of their countries, the most educated, those with the most drive and ambition, and so forth. However, I suspect their children will regress to the African mean, and not just because of the influence of African American ghetto culture. We will see similar things to what we see in Europe (which has a larger and earlier African migration) in which the new generation of ethnic Africans is worst behaved and has worse academic achievement than their parents.

    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
    Igbo are a higher mean, though.
    , @res
    Genetic regression to the mean seems likely, but how much is that and how much is cultural?

    This book chapter gives evidence for the idea that African Americans drag down (the later generations of) African immigrants.
    https://www.nap.edu/read/21746/chapter/2#3

    However, second generation blacks appear to be integrating with the general black native-born population, where higher education does not translate into higher employment rates. Among women the pattern is reversed, with a substantially lower employment rate for immigrants than for the native-born, but employment rates for second and higher generation women moving toward parity with the general native-born population, regardless of race.
    ...
    a troubling rise in poverty for the black second+ generations relative to the black first generation.
     
  18. I can only say that my Nigerian and Ethiopian acquaintances in the Imperial Capital said stuff about American blacks on a regular basis that I didn’t even hear from the redneck construction workers I spent most of my days around.

    As for influence, the dominant culture wins. DC’s only well known rapper – Wale – is the son of Nigerian immigrants. Obviously the ways of his ancestors had less allure than that of his neighbors.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    Agreed. Some of the stuff that I've heard African immigrants say about American blacks-especially in ghetto Baltimore or Houston-was truly jaw-dropping: and I've lived in Asia, where general open contempt for black people is omnipresent. That's why I'm deeply skeptical that increased African immigration is somehow going to improve the latter's lot, and why I think it'll be fascinating to see how the denizens of the ghetto react to the new middleman minority looking like themselves.

    Chances are: it'll rub in the salt into the wound even more, leading to tensions that will confuse hapless white liberals. It's not like the American blacks have any real connection to Africa. Probably less than most American whites have to Europe, honestly.

    >As for influence, the dominant culture wins. DC’s only well known rapper – Wale – is the son of Nigerian immigrants. Obviously the ways of his ancestors had less allure than that of his neighbors.

    To prevent this outcome, your typical Igbo parents will spend much of their income on a magnet or private school if they can't afford to move to a mainstream suburb yet, with varying degrees of success.

  19. Well, anecdotally, from living in London (the original) for a few years, it’s clear that the Africans either ‘regress to the mean’ on their own or are influenced by the West Indians (there considered the ‘problem’ blacks.

    • Replies: @Cowboy shaw
    There was a good article in the evening standard where some local West Indian origin black kids said the recent upsurge in knife violence was due to Nigerians, Congolese, and Somalians bringing far more violent techniques to the party.
    , @Anne Lid
    I knew a nurse+midwife, who was originally from Sierra Leone. Her mother chose her out of five siblings to go to Britain. She was a lovely, warm, conscientious person, can't remember one bad attribute about her. She was emphatically against her son spending too much time with other young blacks, who pulled him down, and wanted him to work with whites, to gather connections and pick up genteel manners. Of course, this will not work when eventually you run out of nice white people.
  20. Anonymous[681] • Disclaimer says:

    The daughter of a Nigerian immigrant at a local high school petitioned the school to drop Huck Finn from the reading list because it offends her sensitivities. The school dutifully did so, and for her “courage” she gained admission to Stanford.

    Later, when a girl at the same school asked a boy to a Tolo dance (HS dance where girls ask boys) using a poster she found on Pinterest that says, “If I were black I’d be picking cotton, but I pick you”. A friend took a picture of the two, posted it on instagram and all hell broke loose. They apologized profusely and said it was a joke gone bad but no matter, the principal immediately called all the colleges that accepted the girl and the boy and had them rescind all offers. Kids at the school organized a “walk-out” to protest the “racism”, led by — guess who? Yep, the Nigerian girl, and a Korean boy, megaphone in hand. The lynch mob on Twitter threw unbelievable hate and venom at a couple of 18 year olds, incl. death threats. The girl attempted suicide, was put on suicide watch at the hospital for a week, then dropped out of hs, the family moved out of the state before the end of the school year.

    They catch on quickly to the victimhood mentality since they are being rewarded at every turn for crying victim, esp. in college admissions. African or black, same difference. Let them all emigrate to Israel, they’ve enriched us enough.

  21. @Arclight
    I can only say that my Nigerian and Ethiopian acquaintances in the Imperial Capital said stuff about American blacks on a regular basis that I didn't even hear from the redneck construction workers I spent most of my days around.

    As for influence, the dominant culture wins. DC's only well known rapper - Wale - is the son of Nigerian immigrants. Obviously the ways of his ancestors had less allure than that of his neighbors.

    Agreed. Some of the stuff that I’ve heard African immigrants say about American blacks-especially in ghetto Baltimore or Houston-was truly jaw-dropping: and I’ve lived in Asia, where general open contempt for black people is omnipresent. That’s why I’m deeply skeptical that increased African immigration is somehow going to improve the latter’s lot, and why I think it’ll be fascinating to see how the denizens of the ghetto react to the new middleman minority looking like themselves.

    Chances are: it’ll rub in the salt into the wound even more, leading to tensions that will confuse hapless white liberals. It’s not like the American blacks have any real connection to Africa. Probably less than most American whites have to Europe, honestly.

    >As for influence, the dominant culture wins. DC’s only well known rapper – Wale – is the son of Nigerian immigrants. Obviously the ways of his ancestors had less allure than that of his neighbors.

    To prevent this outcome, your typical Igbo parents will spend much of their income on a magnet or private school if they can’t afford to move to a mainstream suburb yet, with varying degrees of success.

    • Replies: @Peter Akuleyev

    Probably less than most American whites have to Europe, honestly
     
    .

    How is that even a question? Most white Americans have at least a grand-parent or great-grandparent who immigrated from Europe. African-Americans ancestors mostly came over 300 years ago. White Americans, at least college educated ones, usually learn a smattering of French, Spanish, maybe even German. We mostly still read Shakespeare, watch "Downton Abbey" or Monty Python or "Fleabag", listen to the Beatles, eat French cheese, drink German style beers, and on and on. An educated white American who has never been to Europe is kind of a freak. Look how upset white America was when Notre Dame caught on fire. Would Blacks care if the priceless library in Timbuktu were destroyed? (actually, it was, in 2013, and they didn't). Most whites still have very strong ties to Europe, even if they are unconscious. African-Americans don't learn African languages, don't visit Africa as tourists very often, usually don't know what African nation they are descended from, have never eaten real African food, etc. etc. In a very real sense "African-Americans" are a new hybrid race that belong to our continent and have no meaningful ties to Africans at all.

  22. @Anon
    The most important thing is what happens over time, over the generations. How endogamous can immigrant blacks be (including smart Carribean blacks), given their numbers and relative isolation? Will they marry black DOAS's, black immigrants, whites? Ivy League blacks are about 50 percent non-DOAS.

    Over time it might be a Son Also Rises situation, with an enduring endogamous elite, and some lesser talented children filtering down into a mixed DOAS situation, where they nevertheless positively influence middle class blacks or else get assimilated by the DOAS, including culturally, but still with a small positive effect.

    @trelane: People assimilate towards the socially dominant group
     
    Jews would be somewhat of a counterexample: Yes, they are assimilating, with a lot of half and quarter Jews, but there is still a remarkably well-defined Jewish population in the U.S.

    For first generation, the YouTube videos of Carribean 20-something Desi-Rae are instructive. She is pretty red-pilled, but I expect her exasperation with American blacks is fairly common among more elite immigrant blacks.

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-uP8fChoXf3FTHyttRRkUw/videos

    Jews would be somewhat of a counterexample: Yes, they are assimilating, with a lot of half and quarter Jews, but there is still a remarkably well-defined Jewish population in the U.S.

    In substantial part that’s because of the Orthodox and Hasidim. They are certainly not going to let Jewish culture be assimilated away, like what’s happened to almost all other white ethnicities.

    • Replies: @Anon


    Jews would be somewhat of a counterexample: Yes, they are assimilating, with a lot of half and quarter Jews, but there is still a remarkably well-defined Jewish population in the U.S.
     
    In substantial part that’s because of the Orthodox and Hasidim. They are certainly not going to let Jewish culture be assimilated away, like what’s happened to almost all other white ethnicities.
     
    No, that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking specifically about secular or reform or conservative Jews, the ones I was tracked with in school classes in the 1970s, the ones filling up the Jewish secondary schools, the ones on staff at all the major media and major web sites, the lawyers and academics. They marry assortatively and endogamously to a great extent, still today, despite passing for gentile in most cases. Read the New York Times wedding announcements page. If they married without respect to their ethnicity, comprising only 2 percent of the population, they would be gone within two generations.

    Orthodox and Hasidim are invisible, although they slough off misfit members to the outside world.

  23. The first wave of Caribbean blacks to come to the US were widely presented as very hard-working, law-abiding, education-focused Negroes. Even if that were true in the main, their children and grandchildren became no better than the average blacks whose ancestors had been here for at least a century.

  24. I read somewhere a long time ago that African immigrants tend to do better than their AA counterparts in terms of income but that their incomes levels and test scores drop to the same as AA levels by the third generation.

  25. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says:
    @prosa123
    Jews would be somewhat of a counterexample: Yes, they are assimilating, with a lot of half and quarter Jews, but there is still a remarkably well-defined Jewish population in the U.S.

    In substantial part that's because of the Orthodox and Hasidim. They are certainly not going to let Jewish culture be assimilated away, like what's happened to almost all other white ethnicities.

    Jews would be somewhat of a counterexample: Yes, they are assimilating, with a lot of half and quarter Jews, but there is still a remarkably well-defined Jewish population in the U.S.

    In substantial part that’s because of the Orthodox and Hasidim. They are certainly not going to let Jewish culture be assimilated away, like what’s happened to almost all other white ethnicities.

    No, that’s not what I’m talking about. I’m talking specifically about secular or reform or conservative Jews, the ones I was tracked with in school classes in the 1970s, the ones filling up the Jewish secondary schools, the ones on staff at all the major media and major web sites, the lawyers and academics. They marry assortatively and endogamously to a great extent, still today, despite passing for gentile in most cases. Read the New York Times wedding announcements page. If they married without respect to their ethnicity, comprising only 2 percent of the population, they would be gone within two generations.

    Orthodox and Hasidim are invisible, although they slough off misfit members to the outside world.

    • Agree: YetAnotherAnon
  26. Thinking of acquaintances, my conclusion is that immigrant Africans/Caribbeans are mostly self-segregating from American blacks, but there is substantial minority of intermixers, unfortunately heavily driven by the classic negro male spreading his seed without hanging around to raise the kids. By the second generation, though, the self-segregation erodes, and even more erosion by the third generation. This, combined with fecundity of the intermixers, means that except for a few disciplined and conscientious families, the immigrants will eventually assimilate to ghetto norms.

    Meanwhile, native US blacks undergo approximately zero “uplift” from immigrant blacks.

    So, immigrant eliteness eventually obliterated + no native uplift = worst case scenario.

    But you probably already suspected that.

  27. Do Elite African Immigrants Uplift African Americans?

    Here’s a wonderful example of an élite African-Frenchman uplifting an African-Briton:


    • Replies: @DINDUNUFFINS,esquire
    Not French Not British....tough shit!
  28. An interesting question I’ve never seen researched is whether elite African immigration to the U.S. rubs off culturally to uplift the behavior of African Americans, or do African-Americans drag down Africans.?

    The question was extensively explored in last years documentary film about the Wakandan royal family. The example of N’jobu is cause for concern that African elites will assimilate to American ‘hood culture.

    • Agree: PaceLaw
  29. There have been children of high profile blacks in philly and Camden as shooting victims recently. Look up jewel Williams

  30. An interesting question I’ve never seen researched is whether elite African immigration to the U.S. rubs off culturally to uplift the behavior of African Americans, or do African-Americans drag down Africans.?

    Hong! Hong! Hong!

  31. Here’s a 2014 story with some interesting details on Congresswoman Ilhan Omar, that may cast some light on how Somalians and African-Americans get along:

    After a rocky start, Somali and African Americans finding common ground

    Fourteen years ago, longtime community activist Abdirizak Bihi received a call informing him of an after-school fight that broke out between Somali-American and African-American students at Roosevelt High School in Minneapolis.

    …Over the ensuing decade, Bihi said, there were sporadic fights and tensions between the African-American and Somali-American youths in Minneapolis.

    Those fights often took place at malls, parks and other public gatherings in Minneapolis and the surrounding cities. But when a food fight erupted into a melee at South High School last year [2013], Bihi and other leaders formulated a plan of action: finding a way where both communities could gather and learn about each other.

    An estimated 30,000 Somalis live in Minnesota, with the majority living in Minneapolis’s Cedar-Riverside area…

    The increased engagement and collaboration between the communities have resulted in the recent appointments of two Somali-American women, Ilhan Omar and Farhiyo Khalif, to the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP) in Minneapolis.

    Omar was appointed the third vice president and Khalif was elected as assistant secretary of the Minneapolis NAACP. Omar and Khalif are the first Somali immigrants to become members of the local NAACP.

    “We isolated ourselves from the rest of the city for many years,” [Bihi] said. “It’s important that we’re now starting to get ourselves out and engage other communities.”

    “We’ve a lot to gain.

    Yes, I’d say they do.

    • Replies: @PaceLaw
    I’d say that the Islamic faith of the Somalis is the main reason there’s not greater affinity between the 2 communities. Christian Nigerians/Ghanaians seem to get along with African Americans reasonably well.
  32. “I’ve never seen any large scale data on this question.”

    i have. i got 2 eyes, and they tell me the answer.

    africans in the US drag down all marginal immigrant groups, who become more like africans in the second generation and further.

    filipinos, mexicans, maghrebs, white trash people, and african immigrants all start talking and dressing like africans in the US, start listening to garbage rap music, start watching NBA, and start calling people “Dog” and “Nigga”.

    how do you think those people got shot at the Raptors parade in Toronto?

    canadian immigrants becoming more like americans. er, more like certain americans.

  33. @Dave Pinsen
    I suspect them being here has a negative impact on Nigeria.

    Bingo. The West is extracting the best human resources from some of those nations. Their future development will be severely restricted due to the loss of this talent.

    For an analogy see the black community in America. Under segregation the best and brightest blacks lived in the community and provided much needed services. Now the best and brightest flee just like the Whites did, and the black community is left without its leading elements.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Right, before "Integration" the rank and file and even dumber blacks listened to the talented tenth, who gave them some guidance. Under integration the talented tenth became honorary whites, which did neither whites nor the rest of the blacks nor even, really, themseles any great favor.

    Now, the Black Leadership consists of people chosen mostly by the media and some ((("influential community organizers" ))). They could mostly give two shits bout rank and file blacks except insofar as they form their apparent power base.

    Jesse found out who his real power base consisted of with his "Hymietown" remark.
    , @Dave Pinsen
    I'd go further and hypothesize that if a Nigerian becomes a physician in America, both Nigerians and Americans are worse off: the Nigerians, because they have one fewer physician; and the Americans, because they have a less qualified physician than they would have had otherwise.

    I'm open to being proved wrong about this.

  34. more serious science question: are native africans smarter than africans in the new world? i’ve argued for a while now that they are, due to situation: it was the less intelligent africans who found themselves crossing the ocean while the smarter africans avoided that.

    now that we have the DNA technology to get exact and specific SNP data on any person, we need to do an experiment.

    start doing big, thousand person trials where you do genealogy tests on black people in the US. sort them by how african they are. 60%, 70%, 80%, 90%, 99%.

    have each group take standard intelligence tests. compare results.

    i bet the black people in the US who are nearly completely african, like 95% africa SNPs or more, are less intelligent than bantu peoples in the cities back in africa.

    this experiment would also give you data on how much being progressively more and more european, or more american indian, would change their performance on intelligence tests. but that’s a side issue from our main inquiry here. which is trying to directly compare actual africans to actual africans.

  35. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @istevefan
    Bingo. The West is extracting the best human resources from some of those nations. Their future development will be severely restricted due to the loss of this talent.

    For an analogy see the black community in America. Under segregation the best and brightest blacks lived in the community and provided much needed services. Now the best and brightest flee just like the Whites did, and the black community is left without its leading elements.

    Right, before “Integration” the rank and file and even dumber blacks listened to the talented tenth, who gave them some guidance. Under integration the talented tenth became honorary whites, which did neither whites nor the rest of the blacks nor even, really, themseles any great favor.

    Now, the Black Leadership consists of people chosen mostly by the media and some (((“influential community organizers” ))). They could mostly give two shits bout rank and file blacks except insofar as they form their apparent power base.

    Jesse found out who his real power base consisted of with his “Hymietown” remark.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    Did "Hymietown" have any materially negative effect on Jesse Jackson's career? Not that I can think of.
  36. Possibly, but I suspect they just displace the locals more. Put it this way, the problem for AA is also relative competition. Given their own country and many would have to be professors, have middle and upper middle class positions. But they get relatively outcompeted by others in American society.

  37. @istevefan
    Bingo. The West is extracting the best human resources from some of those nations. Their future development will be severely restricted due to the loss of this talent.

    For an analogy see the black community in America. Under segregation the best and brightest blacks lived in the community and provided much needed services. Now the best and brightest flee just like the Whites did, and the black community is left without its leading elements.

    I’d go further and hypothesize that if a Nigerian becomes a physician in America, both Nigerians and Americans are worse off: the Nigerians, because they have one fewer physician; and the Americans, because they have a less qualified physician than they would have had otherwise.

    I’m open to being proved wrong about this.

    • Agree: Cowboy shaw
    • Replies: @stillCARealist
    I'd love to see a complete analysis of why American kids don't try to become doctors anymore. I mean, I think I know, because I came from the last cohort of students who were all in molecular biology as a stepping stone to medical school. I wasn't good enough for that route, but i had scads of friends (mostly white) who were and went on to med school. That must not be happening anymore since all the doctors I see now who are my age and younger are from other countries.
    , @PaceLaw
    To assume African immigrant doctors are less qualified doctors is really quite stupid. What’s your basis?

    My Exhibit A is Ghanaian doctor at Johns Hopkins hospital by the name of Kofi Boahene.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kofi_Boahene
  38. @Anonymous
    Right, before "Integration" the rank and file and even dumber blacks listened to the talented tenth, who gave them some guidance. Under integration the talented tenth became honorary whites, which did neither whites nor the rest of the blacks nor even, really, themseles any great favor.

    Now, the Black Leadership consists of people chosen mostly by the media and some ((("influential community organizers" ))). They could mostly give two shits bout rank and file blacks except insofar as they form their apparent power base.

    Jesse found out who his real power base consisted of with his "Hymietown" remark.

    Did “Hymietown” have any materially negative effect on Jesse Jackson’s career? Not that I can think of.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    He "backed that azz up" in a hurry and was put on notice, but he was still highly useful, and the Burger Kings tend not to take these things personally since even more than badwhites, they consider the schvartzes bereft of moral agency, an especially dull breed of bovine as it were.

    But he was definitely corrected.
    , @South Texas Guy
    No, but Eddie Murphy made some hay of it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwQPHkvAfSQ
    , @Olorin
    Not unless you count him being forced to abandon his robust populist political career for a PTB-sanctioned one of corporate left media activism implicitly protecting the interests of NY "Hymies" rather than black Americans. And later, being instructed to pimp the product the Chicago PTB had to sell, like blackness a la Obama.

    This came in the decades after having his slave chain yanked hard for having the temerity to take all that "civil rights" and "freedom" stuff seriously and speak his mind on what he saw in New York, with typical New York ethnic humor and observational intelligence.

    Here's one example of the chain yank and how precisely his politically galvanizing threat was analyzed/recognized at the time. It's from up-and-coming future media (Pravda) mogul Michael Hirschorn...while a Hahvahd undergrad:

    Jesse and the Jews
    https://www.thecrimson.com/article/1984/3/5/jesse-and-the-jews-pbtbhis-is/

    It's especially good as a backgrounder for the begged question in your comment: who decided what Jesse Jackson's career would be? Because the one he has had for the past 30 years isn't the one he was building in the 1980s.

    https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1988-04-26-me-1522-story.html

    Hirschorn went on to be a propagandist and remains one to this day.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/author/michael-hirschorn/
    https://www.huffpost.com/author/michael-hirschorn
    https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018/11/how-msnbc-created-a-cable-news-addiction-epidemic
    https://www.businessinsider.com/michael-hirschorn-is-the-whole-matrix-2010-5

    And many more.

    Also of interest is Micah Sifry's piece, with the same title as Hirschorn's Crimson one, from 1988:

    https://www.jstor.org/stable/3012077?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

    Note that the palette of issues Sifry calls "left" in 1988 today gets Donald Trump called right wing Hitler nazi nazi Hitler.

    In my "deindustrialization"-battered home city, Jackson in 1984 astonished me by doing what I'd never before seen: he united blacks and whites and Puerto Ricans, workers and unemployed, schooled and unschooled. Rural workers who drove in to their refinery jobs from southern Delaware or the Pine Barrens supported him. By 1988, his coalition building was posing a very real threat to both GOP and Dem electoral models. "Antisemitism" was the hill they chose to hang him on.

    Today the (((Gateway Pundit)))/mainstream Zionist media interpretation is that he was a communist bolshevist progressive feminist baby killer whatever whatever and you just shouldn't take him seriously or even think about him at all.

    Fact is, there is an underrepresented current of nativist populist American political and social thought that, whenever it starts to find its sea legs among the electorate, gets Shut Down. It is very much at odds with the foundationocracy and its NGO NWO money laundries, at odds with powerful institutions like media, education, government, and the board room of Fortune 300 corporations. Big Globo.

    Side note: I'm fascinated by the recent apparent explosion of interest among Millennial kindern of my immediate and internetted acquaintance in the Dodd Report to the Reece Committee (1954) and Norman Dodd's 1982 interview with G. Edward Griffin. Not sure where they're getting this all of a sudden, but hearing them say the same things as my grandfather (born 1880) did is quite a kick for this oldfag. More so since I observed first hand in the foundation world exactly what Dodd and the committee--and Ukkipappa--asserted. The older I get, the smarter my fathers become.

  39. Anonymous[404] • Disclaimer says:

    Regression toward the mean.

    The answer, surely, is to look at Igbo behaviors back home in Nigeria.

  40. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dave Pinsen
    Did "Hymietown" have any materially negative effect on Jesse Jackson's career? Not that I can think of.

    He “backed that azz up” in a hurry and was put on notice, but he was still highly useful, and the Burger Kings tend not to take these things personally since even more than badwhites, they consider the schvartzes bereft of moral agency, an especially dull breed of bovine as it were.

    But he was definitely corrected.

  41. @Andy
    I suspect "regression toward the mean" operates here. Because so far immigration from Africa to the US has not been that massive, those coming here tend to be the cream of their countries, the most educated, those with the most drive and ambition, and so forth. However, I suspect their children will regress to the African mean, and not just because of the influence of African American ghetto culture. We will see similar things to what we see in Europe (which has a larger and earlier African migration) in which the new generation of ethnic Africans is worst behaved and has worse academic achievement than their parents.

    Igbo are a higher mean, though.

  42. @anon
    Agree, mostly oil on water as seen with the older West Indian generations But also true that the kids - those not dispatched back to Africa- would be dragged down somewhat by African American culture. Same applies to kids from all other races, cultures and nationalities.

    “Same applies to kids from all other races, cultures and nationalities.”

    Yup. A case has just concluded in the UK where a bunch of middle class kids in the Cheshire millionaire belt were playing gangstas – one (of Lebanese extraction) got stabbed to death by his ‘bro’.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7241185/Boy-17-CLEARED-killing-private-schoolboy-Yousef-Makki.html

    “Despite the privileged backgrounds of both defendants, they led ‘double lives’.

    Calling each other ‘Bro’ and ‘Fam’ and the police ‘Feds’, the defendants and Yousef smoked cannabis, road around on bikes, ‘chilling’ and listened to rap or drill music.

    They would post videos on social media, making threats and posing with ‘shanks’ or knives.

    The court heard how hours before the stabbing, Boy B arranged a £45 cannabis deal and the teenagers planned to rob the drug dealer, a ‘soft target’.

    But the robbery went wrong and Yousef and Boy B fled, leaving Boy A to take a beating.

    Boy A then later pushed Yousef who called him a ‘p****’ and punched him in the face.

    He told the jury Yousef pulled out a knife and he responded by also taking out a knife and his victim was accidentally stabbed.”

  43. @M_Young
    Well, anecdotally, from living in London (the original) for a few years, it's clear that the Africans either 'regress to the mean' on their own or are influenced by the West Indians (there considered the 'problem' blacks.

    There was a good article in the evening standard where some local West Indian origin black kids said the recent upsurge in knife violence was due to Nigerians, Congolese, and Somalians bringing far more violent techniques to the party.

  44. @M_Young
    Well, anecdotally, from living in London (the original) for a few years, it's clear that the Africans either 'regress to the mean' on their own or are influenced by the West Indians (there considered the 'problem' blacks.

    I knew a nurse+midwife, who was originally from Sierra Leone. Her mother chose her out of five siblings to go to Britain. She was a lovely, warm, conscientious person, can’t remember one bad attribute about her. She was emphatically against her son spending too much time with other young blacks, who pulled him down, and wanted him to work with whites, to gather connections and pick up genteel manners. Of course, this will not work when eventually you run out of nice white people.

  45. Ed says:

    I’m the son of Ghanaian immigrants and grew up with other West African immigrants most from Sierra Leone. In my family most of my sibling and cousin cohort that was either born here or came as children have college degrees or above. Those that don’t have decent working class jobs and stay out of trouble. I can’t think of any kids in the next generation that are getting in any trouble.

    My mom is the only one in the family that lives in PG county, most in my family would never dream living there, preferring Northern VA. My two younger siblings went to public schools that were 90-95% black. Maybe due to their personalities they never got in any real trouble. My brother got in a fight in junior high and called the other boy a slave. Anyway at a school where the few that take the SAT scored on average below 800 my brother got a 1200.

    As far as uplift the only African-American in our family is ironically the highest earning as my cousin’s husband is a VP at an investment bank. He was going to divorce my cousin last year, but was talked out of it by family and his white mentor. So I suppose that’s an example of influence. He’s made comments that he loves our culture and how we come together for family functions.

    Overall though it really does depend on where and how you grow up . Two Sierra Leone boys I grew up with have been killed in recent years in their late 30s both in DC. I have a Ghanaian friend, whose great uncle was a president of Ghana, from HS that dropped out of HS, sired 4 kids by 3 different women, has never held a job for a year, is homeless and is HIV positive.

    • Replies: @DINDUNUFFINS,esquire
    And you owe it all to WHITE WESTERN CIVILIZATION...simple as that. EVerybody in the world isn't running to get into Ghana or Africa that's for sure.
  46. From observation of a handful of kids, it is mixed. For the first generation, the more studious Nigerian kids, unlike American black kids, are not embarrassed to do well in school. The less studious fall prey to rap culture.

    With the tiny numbers though, at least for now, there is little chance that a second generation will be able to maintain any separation, even with Africans’ noted despisal of American blacks and their culture.

  47. @SFG
    That's why he's bringing it up here.

    Frankly, no clue. I suspect enough Nigerian immigrants could eventually have a positive effect, but I think you would just see stratification by class, with the new immigrants on top and the descendants of slaves on the bottom. It's perfectly clear our upper class is not only OK with diversifying its skin tone, but sees the quest to do so as a nice way of distracting the left that would otherwise try to redistribute their income.

    Of course, I'm projecting current situations into the future. Sci-fi from the 50s had housewives in spaceships.

    I suspect enough Nigerian immigrants could eventually have a positive effect

    My snarky rejoinder is that you must not know too many Nigerians.

    We’ve been surrounding American Blacks with White culture for a long time without much to show for it; I’m not holding out much expectation for the Igbos et al to mark a sea change.

  48. All ethnicities and cultures become debased by long association with American Black society.
    So, no, real Africans should remain in Africa and lord it over the stupid majority.

  49. With global culture, the rot starts before the African arrives in the US. When I stayed with middle class Africans in Nigeria and Ghana, they would often have BET-style endless mindless rap playing in the TV in the background. Every barber had Tupac posters on the walls.

    Look at someone like the Senegalese-American rapper Akon – who pretended to have served four years in prison for street kudos. Being an American criminal is aspirational.

    • Replies: @Dr Van Nostrand
    Africans admire the success of AAs in the entertainment industry but they themselves view the industry as somewhat wicked. From what I see middle class Africans don't consider entertainment center a proper aspiration. Their values are those if American circa 1900 where actors and performets were considered barely above prostitutes.
  50. @Dave Pinsen
    Did "Hymietown" have any materially negative effect on Jesse Jackson's career? Not that I can think of.

    No, but Eddie Murphy made some hay of it.

  51. Well, it’s easy to explain it like this:

    Slavers and slaves don’t get along so good. Most African immigrants are descendants of the very people who sold the less fortunate (read: less civilized) Africans into slavery.

  52. Nigerians are the Jews / Armenians of Africa. They talk a lot, projecting an image of competence, but numbers say they are as intelligent as their neighbors. All three do well in sales and political analysis, but wouldn’t find their way out of their restroom.

  53. @nebulafox
    Agreed. Some of the stuff that I've heard African immigrants say about American blacks-especially in ghetto Baltimore or Houston-was truly jaw-dropping: and I've lived in Asia, where general open contempt for black people is omnipresent. That's why I'm deeply skeptical that increased African immigration is somehow going to improve the latter's lot, and why I think it'll be fascinating to see how the denizens of the ghetto react to the new middleman minority looking like themselves.

    Chances are: it'll rub in the salt into the wound even more, leading to tensions that will confuse hapless white liberals. It's not like the American blacks have any real connection to Africa. Probably less than most American whites have to Europe, honestly.

    >As for influence, the dominant culture wins. DC’s only well known rapper – Wale – is the son of Nigerian immigrants. Obviously the ways of his ancestors had less allure than that of his neighbors.

    To prevent this outcome, your typical Igbo parents will spend much of their income on a magnet or private school if they can't afford to move to a mainstream suburb yet, with varying degrees of success.

    Probably less than most American whites have to Europe, honestly

    .

    How is that even a question? Most white Americans have at least a grand-parent or great-grandparent who immigrated from Europe. African-Americans ancestors mostly came over 300 years ago. White Americans, at least college educated ones, usually learn a smattering of French, Spanish, maybe even German. We mostly still read Shakespeare, watch “Downton Abbey” or Monty Python or “Fleabag”, listen to the Beatles, eat French cheese, drink German style beers, and on and on. An educated white American who has never been to Europe is kind of a freak. Look how upset white America was when Notre Dame caught on fire. Would Blacks care if the priceless library in Timbuktu were destroyed? (actually, it was, in 2013, and they didn’t). Most whites still have very strong ties to Europe, even if they are unconscious. African-Americans don’t learn African languages, don’t visit Africa as tourists very often, usually don’t know what African nation they are descended from, have never eaten real African food, etc. etc. In a very real sense “African-Americans” are a new hybrid race that belong to our continent and have no meaningful ties to Africans at all.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    We agree. All I can tell you is that every actual African I've ever met definitely view the notion that they are expected to view them as brothers as bizarre.

    You know, before I leave here, I forgot to respond to another comment you made a long time ago that sent me down a bit of a rabbit hole: when I said young Hitler in Vienna and Munich was a normal guy, to clarify, I meant in the sense that he wasn't genocidal, or really all that political in general beyond a vague participation in the platitudes of the time. He was deeply immature and probably suffered from what we'd call clinical depression at some point or another, but he wasn't evil, he wasn't retarded, he wasn't crazy. It's only when, as Hamann (good book!) notes, you take in the complete isolation and start to look at the future bigger picture, that you see a greater pattern.

    The "Aspergery" description pricked up my ears. You've always got to be careful about retrospective diagnosis for a lot of reasons, not least you might be projecting today's normal behavior backwards toward a with very different social norms. But as someone diagnosed with that, I could not help but notice some very... um, disturbing parallels, whether we're talking thought processes or typical concrete issues in life someone with that usually has, whatever my cynicism about the compulsive diagnosis of anything going on today. There's a strange notion that people with ASD can't become politicians, or even dictators. It would take one with an uncommonly high verbal IQ, ambition, and the right obsessions, but it is possible. Learning how to deceive people, learning how to give off the right social signals, social skills in general: it can be learned and fine-tuned to the point where, much like a psychopath, you are putting on a mask that can fool most people. But there are always little clues that it wasn't picked up intuitively at birth, just like with any speaker of a foreign language. For example, note the language he uses when he talks about his enemies. "Exterminate". Not kill. "Exterminate". That's very telling. There's this Norwegian research paper that goes into more detail about that potentiality: I tried to re-find it and post it here for anybody who was interested, but for the life of me, I couldn't.

    And yes. Wilson is History's Ultimate Villain.

    It's been fun. Well, no, not really, but that has more to do with my life. It's time to close this chapter and make a much better one.

    , @Hibernian
    "White Americans, at least college educated ones, usually learn a smattering of French, Spanish, maybe even German. We mostly still read Shakespeare, watch “Downton Abbey” or Monty Python or “Fleabag”, listen to the Beatles, eat French cheese, drink German style beers, and on and on. An educated white American who has never been to Europe is kind of a freak."

    You're talking about Ivy League graduates of 50 years ago.
  54. @Dave Pinsen
    I'd go further and hypothesize that if a Nigerian becomes a physician in America, both Nigerians and Americans are worse off: the Nigerians, because they have one fewer physician; and the Americans, because they have a less qualified physician than they would have had otherwise.

    I'm open to being proved wrong about this.

    I’d love to see a complete analysis of why American kids don’t try to become doctors anymore. I mean, I think I know, because I came from the last cohort of students who were all in molecular biology as a stepping stone to medical school. I wasn’t good enough for that route, but i had scads of friends (mostly white) who were and went on to med school. That must not be happening anymore since all the doctors I see now who are my age and younger are from other countries.

    • Replies: @Abolish_public_education
    My child rejected the med school pathway because it is deeply offended by the latest, additional, left-wing, non-science, requisite undergraduate courses.
  55. @Bigdicknick
    I have no idea what the answer to this is, but one thing I can tell you is this: many black immigrants immediately integrate into the gibsmedat grievance culture. People who came here from haiti or wherever and reap the benefits of a white run society have a problem with whitey and just KNOW all their problems were caused by us.

    In my experience they go to live either in their own urban ghettoes, or move into mostly white neighborhoods.

    Or more accurately the most upscale urban settings where Asians and Jews are in the ascendancy.

    They don’t move in among 19th century and later arrival black Americans.

    White Americans either of founding stock or later arrivals they will hold in contempt…even while playing the grievance and gibs cultures for all they can get (white tax dollars) and attaching themselves to the most powerful blacks and Asians and the kingmaker Jews, always with an eye for the main chance and family nepotism.

    Look at Kamala Harris for a prime example. Don’t just look at her campaign blatt, look at all the blatt on herself, her sister (Maya Harris, one of Hillary’s top policy advisers), their mother, etc., as pumped out by American Pravda over the past 25 years.

    Another element is how black African immigrants are brought into university campuses/neighborhoods/towns (“talented fraction!”)…and absorb that grievance culture quickly. I watched this happen repeatedly on several Big Ten and Ivy League campuses. The transformation of new arrivals from Huddled Mass Yearning To Breathe Free into the most rabid sorts of entitlement and reparations maws, all of whom had grandparents who died in Auschwitz at age 8–excuse me, ancestors picking cotton under the bullwhip in slavery in South Carolina–was a big redpill for me in the late ’80s.

  56. res says:
    @Andy
    I suspect "regression toward the mean" operates here. Because so far immigration from Africa to the US has not been that massive, those coming here tend to be the cream of their countries, the most educated, those with the most drive and ambition, and so forth. However, I suspect their children will regress to the African mean, and not just because of the influence of African American ghetto culture. We will see similar things to what we see in Europe (which has a larger and earlier African migration) in which the new generation of ethnic Africans is worst behaved and has worse academic achievement than their parents.

    Genetic regression to the mean seems likely, but how much is that and how much is cultural?

    This book chapter gives evidence for the idea that African Americans drag down (the later generations of) African immigrants.
    https://www.nap.edu/read/21746/chapter/2#3

    However, second generation blacks appear to be integrating with the general black native-born population, where higher education does not translate into higher employment rates. Among women the pattern is reversed, with a substantially lower employment rate for immigrants than for the native-born, but employment rates for second and higher generation women moving toward parity with the general native-born population, regardless of race.

    a troubling rise in poverty for the black second+ generations relative to the black first generation.

  57. @Peter Akuleyev

    Probably less than most American whites have to Europe, honestly
     
    .

    How is that even a question? Most white Americans have at least a grand-parent or great-grandparent who immigrated from Europe. African-Americans ancestors mostly came over 300 years ago. White Americans, at least college educated ones, usually learn a smattering of French, Spanish, maybe even German. We mostly still read Shakespeare, watch "Downton Abbey" or Monty Python or "Fleabag", listen to the Beatles, eat French cheese, drink German style beers, and on and on. An educated white American who has never been to Europe is kind of a freak. Look how upset white America was when Notre Dame caught on fire. Would Blacks care if the priceless library in Timbuktu were destroyed? (actually, it was, in 2013, and they didn't). Most whites still have very strong ties to Europe, even if they are unconscious. African-Americans don't learn African languages, don't visit Africa as tourists very often, usually don't know what African nation they are descended from, have never eaten real African food, etc. etc. In a very real sense "African-Americans" are a new hybrid race that belong to our continent and have no meaningful ties to Africans at all.

    We agree. All I can tell you is that every actual African I’ve ever met definitely view the notion that they are expected to view them as brothers as bizarre.

    You know, before I leave here, I forgot to respond to another comment you made a long time ago that sent me down a bit of a rabbit hole: when I said young Hitler in Vienna and Munich was a normal guy, to clarify, I meant in the sense that he wasn’t genocidal, or really all that political in general beyond a vague participation in the platitudes of the time. He was deeply immature and probably suffered from what we’d call clinical depression at some point or another, but he wasn’t evil, he wasn’t retarded, he wasn’t crazy. It’s only when, as Hamann (good book!) notes, you take in the complete isolation and start to look at the future bigger picture, that you see a greater pattern.

    The “Aspergery” description pricked up my ears. You’ve always got to be careful about retrospective diagnosis for a lot of reasons, not least you might be projecting today’s normal behavior backwards toward a with very different social norms. But as someone diagnosed with that, I could not help but notice some very… um, disturbing parallels, whether we’re talking thought processes or typical concrete issues in life someone with that usually has, whatever my cynicism about the compulsive diagnosis of anything going on today. There’s a strange notion that people with ASD can’t become politicians, or even dictators. It would take one with an uncommonly high verbal IQ, ambition, and the right obsessions, but it is possible. Learning how to deceive people, learning how to give off the right social signals, social skills in general: it can be learned and fine-tuned to the point where, much like a psychopath, you are putting on a mask that can fool most people. But there are always little clues that it wasn’t picked up intuitively at birth, just like with any speaker of a foreign language. For example, note the language he uses when he talks about his enemies. “Exterminate”. Not kill. “Exterminate”. That’s very telling. There’s this Norwegian research paper that goes into more detail about that potentiality: I tried to re-find it and post it here for anybody who was interested, but for the life of me, I couldn’t.

    And yes. Wilson is History’s Ultimate Villain.

    It’s been fun. Well, no, not really, but that has more to do with my life. It’s time to close this chapter and make a much better one.

  58. Seems like the Igbo immigrants and their children that I see don’t live in areas where they would intermingle much with American blacks and don’t want to associate with them. However, I too wonder what will happen after 3 generations. My guess is that it depends on who they have children with. If they have children with other blacks then they regress. If they don’t then they become more and more separate from American blacks.

  59. @SFG
    That's why he's bringing it up here.

    Frankly, no clue. I suspect enough Nigerian immigrants could eventually have a positive effect, but I think you would just see stratification by class, with the new immigrants on top and the descendants of slaves on the bottom. It's perfectly clear our upper class is not only OK with diversifying its skin tone, but sees the quest to do so as a nice way of distracting the left that would otherwise try to redistribute their income.

    Of course, I'm projecting current situations into the future. Sci-fi from the 50s had housewives in spaceships.

    Check out “District 9”. … It’s sci fi or satire – hard to tell, anyway it featutes Nigerians in S. Africa.

  60. From what I see African immigrants and native AA don’t get along. The former view the latter as coarse and vulgar while AAs view the Africans as sell outs to whitey as they tend to be successful and vote Republican . Though I think it’s their strong distaste for homos that compel to vote that way rather than any economic ideology. My anecdotal observations.

  61. @TelfoedJohn
    With global culture, the rot starts before the African arrives in the US. When I stayed with middle class Africans in Nigeria and Ghana, they would often have BET-style endless mindless rap playing in the TV in the background. Every barber had Tupac posters on the walls.

    Look at someone like the Senegalese-American rapper Akon - who pretended to have served four years in prison for street kudos. Being an American criminal is aspirational.

    Africans admire the success of AAs in the entertainment industry but they themselves view the industry as somewhat wicked. From what I see middle class Africans don’t consider entertainment center a proper aspiration. Their values are those if American circa 1900 where actors and performets were considered barely above prostitutes.

  62. Forgot to mention. My experience is mostly with Nigerians, Kenyans , ugandans and Ivory Coastians(??)
    To a lesser extent Ethiopians. Oddly perhaps the whitest of black Africans or Ethiopians are happy with semi skilled labour such as cashiers, taxi drivers, medics etc.

  63. Interestingly in Dubai where I lived, a moderately articulate black African would be more excepted in am European or American expat group than Indians due to Indians being more clannish and not as “down” with Western popular culture as Africans.

  64. @ConfirmationBias
    Well we all know Indians bring in more Indians (hopefully qualified, but humans are tribal so they likely just want more of the same / more like themselves as opposed to more qualified people... but that’s why one hopes the system is stringent enough to keep riff-raff out).

    But I’m curious actually of the difference in behaviors between worker-class / low-wage Indians who come in as cab-drivers and low-wage-outsourced-labor-now-come-on-site and whatnot, and those who are probably higher-educated, qualified Indians. They all eventually bring their families, qualified or not.

    Just ask Melania Trump and her elite parents.

    Working class Indians aren’t super successful, but they’re hardly an underclass. There are a lot of them in Toronto and Vancouver. Most are ordinary people.

    Their kids often do decently in school.

  65. I live in an area with a sizable number of native African Americans and also large numbers of immigrant Africans, mostly from West Africa, many Nigerians. Now the Nigerians have a well earned reputation for running scams, but that’s a minority. I’ve read local newspapers in Nigeria which were replete with stories about “tricksters” scamming the local population.

    I have also witnessed, on a small scale, native African Americans making fun of foreign accented African blacks, presumably Nigerian. This I only overheard when they were mimicking accented dialogue. This may have been borrowed from African American comics or comedy performances.

    Why wouldn’t they do so? Prior to the 1960s comedy bits where white comics (mainly Jewish but not always) would do routines using “foreign” accents like Italian, Polish, German, Yiddish, etc. Lampooning foreign immigrants is a classic comedy staple, with misuse of words, etc.

    But there is some evident African American distrust/dislike of foreign African blacks. Maybe cultural or maybe just because they are slightly different, and usually have higher education levels.

    Just like black discrimination/dislike of the much lighter skinned blacks. Most African blacks are very dark and don’t have the biracial ancestors of most American blacks. American blacks are just as “racist” or judgmental as everyone else. Privately, probably even more so.

  66. @Dave Pinsen
    Did "Hymietown" have any materially negative effect on Jesse Jackson's career? Not that I can think of.

    Not unless you count him being forced to abandon his robust populist political career for a PTB-sanctioned one of corporate left media activism implicitly protecting the interests of NY “Hymies” rather than black Americans. And later, being instructed to pimp the product the Chicago PTB had to sell, like blackness a la Obama.

    This came in the decades after having his slave chain yanked hard for having the temerity to take all that “civil rights” and “freedom” stuff seriously and speak his mind on what he saw in New York, with typical New York ethnic humor and observational intelligence.

    Here’s one example of the chain yank and how precisely his politically galvanizing threat was analyzed/recognized at the time. It’s from up-and-coming future media (Pravda) mogul Michael Hirschorn…while a Hahvahd undergrad:

    Jesse and the Jews
    https://www.thecrimson.com/article/1984/3/5/jesse-and-the-jews-pbtbhis-is/

    It’s especially good as a backgrounder for the begged question in your comment: who decided what Jesse Jackson’s career would be? Because the one he has had for the past 30 years isn’t the one he was building in the 1980s.

    https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1988-04-26-me-1522-story.html

    Hirschorn went on to be a propagandist and remains one to this day.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/author/michael-hirschorn/
    https://www.huffpost.com/author/michael-hirschorn
    https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018/11/how-msnbc-created-a-cable-news-addiction-epidemic
    https://www.businessinsider.com/michael-hirschorn-is-the-whole-matrix-2010-5

    And many more.

    Also of interest is Micah Sifry’s piece, with the same title as Hirschorn’s Crimson one, from 1988:

    https://www.jstor.org/stable/3012077?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

    Note that the palette of issues Sifry calls “left” in 1988 today gets Donald Trump called right wing Hitler nazi nazi Hitler.

    In my “deindustrialization”-battered home city, Jackson in 1984 astonished me by doing what I’d never before seen: he united blacks and whites and Puerto Ricans, workers and unemployed, schooled and unschooled. Rural workers who drove in to their refinery jobs from southern Delaware or the Pine Barrens supported him. By 1988, his coalition building was posing a very real threat to both GOP and Dem electoral models. “Antisemitism” was the hill they chose to hang him on.

    Today the (((Gateway Pundit)))/mainstream Zionist media interpretation is that he was a communist bolshevist progressive feminist baby killer whatever whatever and you just shouldn’t take him seriously or even think about him at all.

    Fact is, there is an underrepresented current of nativist populist American political and social thought that, whenever it starts to find its sea legs among the electorate, gets Shut Down. It is very much at odds with the foundationocracy and its NGO NWO money laundries, at odds with powerful institutions like media, education, government, and the board room of Fortune 300 corporations. Big Globo.

    Side note: I’m fascinated by the recent apparent explosion of interest among Millennial kindern of my immediate and internetted acquaintance in the Dodd Report to the Reece Committee (1954) and Norman Dodd’s 1982 interview with G. Edward Griffin. Not sure where they’re getting this all of a sudden, but hearing them say the same things as my grandfather (born 1880) did is quite a kick for this oldfag. More so since I observed first hand in the foundation world exactly what Dodd and the committee–and Ukkipappa–asserted. The older I get, the smarter my fathers become.

  67. It’s been my experience that black immigrants are NOT accepted by American blacks……I have extensive experience in this area. Also, immigrant blacks that I know what nothing to what so ever to do with the “ghetto culture” of american blacks.

  68. @stillCARealist
    I'd love to see a complete analysis of why American kids don't try to become doctors anymore. I mean, I think I know, because I came from the last cohort of students who were all in molecular biology as a stepping stone to medical school. I wasn't good enough for that route, but i had scads of friends (mostly white) who were and went on to med school. That must not be happening anymore since all the doctors I see now who are my age and younger are from other countries.

    My child rejected the med school pathway because it is deeply offended by the latest, additional, left-wing, non-science, requisite undergraduate courses.

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    My child rejected the med school pathway because it is deeply offended by the latest, additional, left-wing, non-science, requisite undergraduate courses.
     
    What does this sentence mean?
  69. @Peter Akuleyev

    Probably less than most American whites have to Europe, honestly
     
    .

    How is that even a question? Most white Americans have at least a grand-parent or great-grandparent who immigrated from Europe. African-Americans ancestors mostly came over 300 years ago. White Americans, at least college educated ones, usually learn a smattering of French, Spanish, maybe even German. We mostly still read Shakespeare, watch "Downton Abbey" or Monty Python or "Fleabag", listen to the Beatles, eat French cheese, drink German style beers, and on and on. An educated white American who has never been to Europe is kind of a freak. Look how upset white America was when Notre Dame caught on fire. Would Blacks care if the priceless library in Timbuktu were destroyed? (actually, it was, in 2013, and they didn't). Most whites still have very strong ties to Europe, even if they are unconscious. African-Americans don't learn African languages, don't visit Africa as tourists very often, usually don't know what African nation they are descended from, have never eaten real African food, etc. etc. In a very real sense "African-Americans" are a new hybrid race that belong to our continent and have no meaningful ties to Africans at all.

    “White Americans, at least college educated ones, usually learn a smattering of French, Spanish, maybe even German. We mostly still read Shakespeare, watch “Downton Abbey” or Monty Python or “Fleabag”, listen to the Beatles, eat French cheese, drink German style beers, and on and on. An educated white American who has never been to Europe is kind of a freak.”

    You’re talking about Ivy League graduates of 50 years ago.

  70. Anonymous[344] • Disclaimer says:

    While my sample size is small, in my experience, black African immigrants, and even some well-educated African-Caribbean immigrants want their kids to have nothing to do with black American culture.

    Of course, once their kids reach their teens, they have to contend with their natural rebelliousness. Telling a teenager to do A often results in them wanting to do B.

    My guess is that it will have no effect either way. Slave-descended African Americans will be almost as separate from recent black African immigrants as they are Indians and Chinese. The only time the two will meet will be went some Nigerian surgeon’s son wants to run for a legacy-black constituency and he tries to make their story his. Or when the Nigerian’s son regresses towards the mean in a big way, in which case he will probably earn the wrath of his family while gravitating to ghetto black culture as a means of seeking identity and community.

  71. I am friends with a young blind man who was born in Ethiopia and came to this country when he was 7. Being blind, and being adopted into a large, quite dysfunctional family, he certainly cannot be called an “elite,” but he does offer an interesting perspective on American-born blacks and their culture. He currently attends a college in the suburban Atlanta area, so his exposure to blacks is routine. He also has many other friends who were also native African born but now naturalized citizens. They ALL find the black American culture profoundly racist, rude, obnoxious, and difficult to tolerate (yet of course they are supposed to). Being blind offers his the ability to do his own thing, but his success in school, his desire to succeed in college, etc. run counter to what he is told is supposed to be his place (even among fellow black college students). Do African “elite” immigrants elevate American blacks? Not one bit. They appear to be beyond that.

  72. I’ve seen that Africans from whatever country tend not to mingle with African-Americans and vice versa. I have a few theories, but don’t have a certain answer.

  73. @nebulafox
    It's going to be interesting when the ghetto economy is kept afloat by Africans. See, the South Asians are eventually going to escape to the suburbs when they get the chance, just like their East Asian predecessors did. I wouldn't be surprised if Nigerians are the ones who end up replacing them in the liquor stores and laundromats and the mom-and-pop corner shops.

    It's going to really knock out one of the Fringe Coalition's fundamental axioms when it becomes clear how little affinity the imported Africans usually have with African-Americans, especially in the underclass. Even the problematic immigrant groups like the Somalis who will sink to the bottom have very deep cultural and social differences that will prevent a great deal of intermixing.

    I live in columbus oh and we have tons of Somalis here

    They don’t seem to care for black americans.

    They avoid doing business with them and are very cool to american blacks socially.

    I was told this by several american black friends and acquaintances and have witnessed it for myself many times.

    Also while I see some, theres not much cultural ruboff from american blacks onto recent African immigrants.

    Rare is it to see a black immigrant taking behavioral or stylistic cues from american blacks.

    • Replies: @PaceLaw
    Here’s a recent example of a black immigrant taking cues from African American culture. The Nipster was Eritrean/African American.
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.tmz.com/2019/07/16/nipsey-hussle-investigation-gang-ties-city-death/
  74. Heard on a Caribbean oriented radio station program 5 or so years agone: a discussion about why U.S. born blacks are that way.

  75. The black family men I know are at their wits end trying to convince their kids not to buy into the popular black culture. They value hard work, education and family but it is an uphill battle raising their kids with so much cultural pressure against them as fathers. That is what I see from real people dealing with it.

    • Replies: @Ed
    It’s a very big issue in the black suburbs of DC, Baltimore, Dallas and Atlanta. The parents are pretty solid middle class but the kids especially the boys adopt a thuggish culture. Many rappers are children of middle class parents.
  76. Anonymous[388] • Disclaimer says:
    @Abolish_public_education
    My child rejected the med school pathway because it is deeply offended by the latest, additional, left-wing, non-science, requisite undergraduate courses.

    My child rejected the med school pathway because it is deeply offended by the latest, additional, left-wing, non-science, requisite undergraduate courses.

    What does this sentence mean?

  77. @Dave the Rave
    The black family men I know are at their wits end trying to convince their kids not to buy into the popular black culture. They value hard work, education and family but it is an uphill battle raising their kids with so much cultural pressure against them as fathers. That is what I see from real people dealing with it.

    It’s a very big issue in the black suburbs of DC, Baltimore, Dallas and Atlanta. The parents are pretty solid middle class but the kids especially the boys adopt a thuggish culture. Many rappers are children of middle class parents.

  78. @Reg Cæsar

    Do Elite African Immigrants Uplift African Americans?
     
    Here's a wonderful example of an élite African-Frenchman uplifting an African-Briton:


    http://www4.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/Yannick+Bonheur+Vanessa+James+ISU+World+Figure+EIr0URhfRYTl.jpg


    https://gal.img.pmdstatic.net/fit/http.3A.2F.2Fprd2-bone-image.2Es3-website-eu-west-1.2Eamazonaws.2Ecom.2Fgal.2Fvar.2Fgal.2Fstorage.2Fimages.2Fmedia.2Fimages.2Factu.2Fphotos_on_ne_parle_que_de_ca.2Fphotos_870.2Fyannick_bonheur_et_vanessa_james_2.2F1328263-1-fre-FR.2Fyannick_bonheur_et_vanessa_james_2_reference.2Ejpg/298x432/quality/80/thumbnail.jpeg


    https://previews.123rf.com/images/olga_besnard/olga_besnard1006/olga_besnard100601210/7737318-france-s-vanessa-james-and-yannick-bonheur-during-the-pairs-short-program-event-during-the-eric-bomp.jpg

    Not French Not British….tough shit!

  79. @Ed
    I’m the son of Ghanaian immigrants and grew up with other West African immigrants most from Sierra Leone. In my family most of my sibling and cousin cohort that was either born here or came as children have college degrees or above. Those that don’t have decent working class jobs and stay out of trouble. I can’t think of any kids in the next generation that are getting in any trouble.

    My mom is the only one in the family that lives in PG county, most in my family would never dream living there, preferring Northern VA. My two younger siblings went to public schools that were 90-95% black. Maybe due to their personalities they never got in any real trouble. My brother got in a fight in junior high and called the other boy a slave. Anyway at a school where the few that take the SAT scored on average below 800 my brother got a 1200.

    As far as uplift the only African-American in our family is ironically the highest earning as my cousin’s husband is a VP at an investment bank. He was going to divorce my cousin last year, but was talked out of it by family and his white mentor. So I suppose that’s an example of influence. He’s made comments that he loves our culture and how we come together for family functions.

    Overall though it really does depend on where and how you grow up . Two Sierra Leone boys I grew up with have been killed in recent years in their late 30s both in DC. I have a Ghanaian friend, whose great uncle was a president of Ghana, from HS that dropped out of HS, sired 4 kids by 3 different women, has never held a job for a year, is homeless and is HIV positive.

    And you owe it all to WHITE WESTERN CIVILIZATION…simple as that. EVerybody in the world isn’t running to get into Ghana or Africa that’s for sure.

  80. African immigrants and their children may not uplift American Blacks but they will provide medical and professional services in black areas.

    FCC commissioner Ajit Pai’s immigrant parents were doctors in Parson’s Kansas. Did the Dr’s Pai uplift the White people of Kansas? I think Comedy writer Mindy Kalig’s parents were also doctors.

  81. @nebulafox
    It's going to be interesting when the ghetto economy is kept afloat by Africans. See, the South Asians are eventually going to escape to the suburbs when they get the chance, just like their East Asian predecessors did. I wouldn't be surprised if Nigerians are the ones who end up replacing them in the liquor stores and laundromats and the mom-and-pop corner shops.

    It's going to really knock out one of the Fringe Coalition's fundamental axioms when it becomes clear how little affinity the imported Africans usually have with African-Americans, especially in the underclass. Even the problematic immigrant groups like the Somalis who will sink to the bottom have very deep cultural and social differences that will prevent a great deal of intermixing.

    Gotta disagree with you here nebulafox. While it’s difficult to speak for all African immigrants, they are largely assimilated into African American culture. Exhibit A is the recently “martyred” Nipsey Hussle, who was Eritrean and African American. Just look at other African hip-hop/pop artists who ape (pun intended) the styles and culture of African Americans. I believe Somalis are a bit of an outlier as their ass- backwards Islamic faith prevents greater assimilation with African Americans.

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    I believe Somalis are a bit of an outlier as their ass- backwards Islamic faith prevents greater assimilation with African Americans.
     
    Somalis do not look like subSaharan blacks.

    And Islam is not "ass backwards". How is your own "forward looking" ideology doing at defending your borders, preserving your culture, and ensuring the survival of your people?
  82. @Elli
    An accountant Nigerian friend, married to a physician, said many of her Nigerian friends in the US send their children back to boarding school or to live with relatives when they reach middle school.

    There is no way they want their children growing up in the dominant American black culture. Maybe they would approve of them marrying into the the top tenth of the Talented Tenth.

    OTOH, I know another woman, from one of the richest families in another African country, who is a liar and scam artist, a fraudster with an unfortunate American ex-husband and an even more unfortunate anchor baby, who could only harm or corrupt the people she associates with.

    Yeah, I know of other elite Nigerians and Ghanaians who prefer to send their kids to boarding school in their home countries. That has more to do with them wanting their kids learning their native culture and language as supposed to not wanting to mix with African Americans. Plus it is supposed to be very cheap as compared to private school in this country.

  83. @MikeatMikedotMike
    "or do African-Americans drag down Africans.?"

    https://www.blazingcatfur.ca/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Jussie-Smollet-Suspects.jpg

    https://nyppagesix.files.wordpress.com/2018/05/jussie-smollett.jpg?quality=90&strip=all&w=1200

    This is absolutely sublime!!! Touché my friend, touché!

  84. @Anon7
    Here's a 2014 story with some interesting details on Congresswoman Ilhan Omar, that may cast some light on how Somalians and African-Americans get along:

    After a rocky start, Somali and African Americans finding common ground

    Fourteen years ago, longtime community activist Abdirizak Bihi received a call informing him of an after-school fight that broke out between Somali-American and African-American students at Roosevelt High School in Minneapolis.

    ...Over the ensuing decade, Bihi said, there were sporadic fights and tensions between the African-American and Somali-American youths in Minneapolis.

    Those fights often took place at malls, parks and other public gatherings in Minneapolis and the surrounding cities. But when a food fight erupted into a melee at South High School last year [2013], Bihi and other leaders formulated a plan of action: finding a way where both communities could gather and learn about each other.

    An estimated 30,000 Somalis live in Minnesota, with the majority living in Minneapolis’s Cedar-Riverside area...

    The increased engagement and collaboration between the communities have resulted in the recent appointments of two Somali-American women, Ilhan Omar and Farhiyo Khalif, to the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP) in Minneapolis.

    Omar was appointed the third vice president and Khalif was elected as assistant secretary of the Minneapolis NAACP. Omar and Khalif are the first Somali immigrants to become members of the local NAACP.

    “We isolated ourselves from the rest of the city for many years,” [Bihi] said. “It’s important that we’re now starting to get ourselves out and engage other communities."

    "We’ve a lot to gain.

     

    Yes, I'd say they do.

    I’d say that the Islamic faith of the Somalis is the main reason there’s not greater affinity between the 2 communities. Christian Nigerians/Ghanaians seem to get along with African Americans reasonably well.

  85. @Dave Pinsen
    I'd go further and hypothesize that if a Nigerian becomes a physician in America, both Nigerians and Americans are worse off: the Nigerians, because they have one fewer physician; and the Americans, because they have a less qualified physician than they would have had otherwise.

    I'm open to being proved wrong about this.

    To assume African immigrant doctors are less qualified doctors is really quite stupid. What’s your basis?

    My Exhibit A is Ghanaian doctor at Johns Hopkins hospital by the name of Kofi Boahene.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kofi_Boahene

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    Here’s Exhibit B: http://freewestmedia.com/2018/08/18/suspended-nigerian-doctor-returns-to-work-after-death-of-boy/

    And Exhibit C: https://www.orijoreporter.com/nigerian-doctor-suspended/
  86. @Cale
    I live in columbus oh and we have tons of Somalis here

    They don't seem to care for black americans.

    They avoid doing business with them and are very cool to american blacks socially.

    I was told this by several american black friends and acquaintances and have witnessed it for myself many times.

    Also while I see some, theres not much cultural ruboff from american blacks onto recent African immigrants.

    Rare is it to see a black immigrant taking behavioral or stylistic cues from american blacks.

    Here’s a recent example of a black immigrant taking cues from African American culture. The Nipster was Eritrean/African American.
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.tmz.com/2019/07/16/nipsey-hussle-investigation-gang-ties-city-death/

  87. @PaceLaw
    To assume African immigrant doctors are less qualified doctors is really quite stupid. What’s your basis?

    My Exhibit A is Ghanaian doctor at Johns Hopkins hospital by the name of Kofi Boahene.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kofi_Boahene
  88. Anonymous[126] • Disclaimer says:
    @PaceLaw
    Gotta disagree with you here nebulafox. While it’s difficult to speak for all African immigrants, they are largely assimilated into African American culture. Exhibit A is the recently “martyred” Nipsey Hussle, who was Eritrean and African American. Just look at other African hip-hop/pop artists who ape (pun intended) the styles and culture of African Americans. I believe Somalis are a bit of an outlier as their ass- backwards Islamic faith prevents greater assimilation with African Americans.

    I believe Somalis are a bit of an outlier as their ass- backwards Islamic faith prevents greater assimilation with African Americans.

    Somalis do not look like subSaharan blacks.

    And Islam is not “ass backwards”. How is your own “forward looking” ideology doing at defending your borders, preserving your culture, and ensuring the survival of your people?

  89. anon[133] • Disclaimer says:

    Interestingly Cops and Americans have a hard time distinguishing between Black Americans of West Indian descent and Descendents of American Slaves. Yet Black Americans of West Indian descent are noticeably more successful.

    I’ve also heard that all Black Americans who get married and stay married are on average quite well off. More evidence that, as much as it horrifies the establishment, cultural practices are important. (In my opinion they have order of magnitude levels of importance – compare well off married black and white Americans with their tribal and peasant ancestors in the old world.)

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