The Unz Review: An Alternative Media Selection
A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media
 TeasersiSteve Blog
A Not-So-Scientific Racist Declares Her Ancestral Homeland "The Smartest Country on the Planet"
🔊 Listen RSS
Email This Page to Someone

 Remember My Information



=>

Bookmark Toggle AllToCAdd to LibraryRemove from Library • BShow CommentNext New CommentNext New ReplyRead More
ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
AgreeDisagreeLOLTroll
These buttons register your public Agreement, Disagreement, Troll, or LOL with the selected comment. They are ONLY available to recent, frequent commenters who have saved their Name+Email using the 'Remember My Information' checkbox, and may also ONLY be used once per hour.
Ignore Commenter Follow Commenter
Search Text Case Sensitive  Exact Words  Include Comments
List of Bookmarks

From The Guardian:

21st century, hi-tech India: the smartest country on the planet

From rocket science to DNA research, India is ridding itself of its poor country image. In this extract from her book Geek Nation, Angela Saini visits Lavasa, an emerging electronic ‘dream city’ where machines will rule

Angela Saini
Sat 5 Mar 2011

Angela Saini??? Where have we heard that name before?

Oh, yeah, she’s the author of the celebrated work of Science Denialism: Superior: The Return of Race Science about evil white pseudoscientists like Francis Galton, Arthur Jensen, and David Reich.

… And yet here in the middle of the Western Ghats, in what can reasonably be called nowhere, I descend into a steep valley and find myself in what will soon become one of the most advanced cities on earth. …

Angela Saini is a science journalist. Extracted from Geek Nation, How Indian Science is Taking Over the World.

 
Hide 197 CommentsLeave a Comment
Commenters to Ignore...to FollowEndorsed Only
Trim Comments?
  1. From rocket science to DNA research, India is ridding itself of its poor country image.

    India is not ridding itself of its poor country image. If it were, emigration would dry up, and expats would come home.

    • Replies: @War for Blair Mountain
    And India could not have rid itself of this poor image if were not for the fact that since 1965, India has imported thousands and thousands of Chinese LEGAL IMMIGRANTS every year, and as a consequence, the vast majority of MDs in India are Chinese and the overwhelming majority of PHDs awarded in Engineering....Computer Science...and Biochemistry in India are awarded to Chinese LEGAL IMMIGRANTS and their India born Chinese children......
    , @Hypnotoad666
    I think Saini is saying the new Indian machines will be the "smartest on the planet." The people, not so much.
    , @Michael S
    No no, don't you see? India will rid itself of its poor country image by exporting half of its population to rich countries, thereby making them poor. Victory by default!
  2. And the Untouchable Machines will sh** in the streets.

    • LOL: MBlanc46
    • Replies: @BenKenobi
    "All these memories will be gone, like poos in a loo."
    , @AndrewR
    Dalits may be disproportionately unlikely to poo in the loo, but most street-sh!tters are not Dalit.
  3. I hear that pretty soon in the “Smartest country on the planet”” they’re going to get started on indoor plumbing and sewers.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    Real soon - be patient, Henry. Toilets are machines, so in Lavasa, the Indian city o' the future, toilets will rule.
    , @Mr McKenna

    “Smartest country on the planet”
     
    Oddly enough, though, they simply can't tolerate 'difference'.
    So they inflict themselves upon the rest of us.


    https://i.ibb.co/g60ksfG/racial-tolerance-map-hk-fix.jpg

    , @The Wild Geese Howard
    HenryA has won this thread going away.

    Since it's summer I feel we're ripe for a good pibble hate post.
    , @Autochthon
    Show's what you know, smartypants. For your information, they have a timeline in place. Hindoos, you see, are so smart they swear everyone there will have "piped drinking water by 2024." Wow! What godlike technology have they uncovered to make such unimaginably sophisticated miracles a reality, and so soon?!

    https://youtu.be/FGt4notGxLc

    Not smart enough to impound sufficient water to avoid catastrophic droughts or to stop shitting out more babies than their resources can support, though.

    Perhaps I am being unfair, though; maybe all the emphasis on rocketry and genetics left no time to study hydrology.
    , @Svevlad
    They kinda did solve that problem in an unreasonably fast time tho

    There was this 3-year comparison (though I don't remember the years, I'm guessing between 2014 and 2017) that street shittery got basically eliminated everywhere but in Bihar
    , @Antonius
    Progress at last: 599 million people shitting in the street as opposed to 600 million people.
    , @Chrisnonymous
    I thought those were symbols of British colonial oppression.
  4. and yet here in the middle of the Western Ghats, in what can reasonably be called nowhere, I descend into a steep valley and find myself in what will soon become one of the most advanced cities on earth

    In shāʾ Allāh. Stories like this warm my heart. Let Indians in the West leave in droves to return, populate, work and thrive in their advanced cities in their native land. Please deny us Westerners the brilliance and genius of India. After all, what was the West without the presence of non-Westerners. Let us Westerners descend and return to a neolithic-like-style of living while India, China and Africa ascend to colonize distant planets.

    Wouldn’t that be the greatest revenge against all of the West’s centuries of injustices and oppression? The rest of the world thrives to new heights while the West rolls around in its mud huts.

    • Replies: @Mr McKenna

    Let Indians in the West leave in droves to return, populate, work and thrive in their advanced cities in their native land.
     
    It sounds like a plan, but when there are 1.5 billion of you, you're able to do all of the above--plus flood the West--without breaking a sweat. Imagine just two billion Indians plus a similar number of Africans, and you'll have more people than the entire planet contained in 1975.

    That doesn't even account for Chinese and other Asians, or Latinos, or the fact that Africa is on sched for four billion, not two. Oh yeah, the future looks bright. I mean dark.

    , @Liza

    The rest of the world thrives to new heights while the West rolls around in its mud huts.
     
    I would say that we've been rolling around in the mud, metaphorically speaking, anyway, for some time now. Maybe a literal rolling around in mud huts might not be a bad idea. It'll cut some of us down to size.
  5. Nuclear Weapons

    Nuclear Submarines

    Soon a Nuclear Aircraft Carrier

    And yet they still whine about the British, and still demand the right to revenge-colonize the West.

    • Replies: @Jus' Sayin'...
    India's nuclear submarines are rebuilds of Soviet hand-me-downs. And while there are some smart Indians, there evidently aren't enough to go around so that India can man these submarines with a competent crew, e.g. a crew all of whom are aware that all hatches should be shut before submerging. https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/whoops-indias-navy-left-nearly-sunk-its-own-3-billion-nuclear-submarine-66211

    I worked off and on in various positions requiring technical competence for over thirty years. During that time I never met one Indian or Pakistani who really impressed me with his technical capabilities. In fact I was often appalled at how ignorant, devoid of creativity, and just plain dumb many of the Indian and Pakistani H-1b programmers and engineers were, whom I ran across during my career. However, they were unusually good at kissing superiors' asses and mistreating subordinates.
    , @Hippopotamusdrome


    Nuclear Weapons

     

    https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/t_original/dnqxrzdmsdkud7fmsqyp.jpg
    , @Kratoklastes

    demand the right to revenge-colonize the West.
     
    Frightened pakeha are hilarious. “Colonise”? I don’t watch a lot of TV news or current affairs, but I flatter myself that I keep abreast of the big-ticket geopolitical shifts, and yet I missed all the footage of dot-head military victories over the Anglosphere.

    Such dotheads as we have roaming around, are private individuals who are in our midst as a result of private decisions, pursuing their best interests. For the most part they are in our midst in compliance with such rules as your political overlords have established[1].

    The best way to point out how infantile your febrile catastrophising looks from the outside, is by contrast.

    The US invasion of Hawaii: that was a colonisation.
    The US invasion of the Philippines: that was an attempt at colonisation.
    The English invasion of India: colonisation.

    You get the drift: government-sponsored action, usually involving the use of government military and widespread death of dissenting civilians in the target locale. Then, a government-sponsored flood of immigrants from the colonising locale, and the imposition of colonial institutions that work to the advantage of some clique in the colonising locale.

    None of those essential characteristics is present when Sanjay gets his H1B and arrives in the US to write insecure, non-performance code for 45% less than a decent coder.

    If Sanjay’s rapport qualité-prix enables him to compete, Sanjay builds himself a reasonable life. If not, he becomes an Uber driver or works at a 7-11.

    The only people who bleat about the browning of ‘X’ (X being whichever Western former-coloniser is now absorbing the descendants of their victims), are the people who can’t out-compete Sanjay.

    And yet, they almost uniformly assert that Sanjay is cognitively inferior to the median indigene.

    As someone to whom Sanjay is no competitive threat, and who rightly does not give much of a fuck about anyone outside my immediate circle-of-really-giving-a-fuck (~10-20 people, globally), I kind of enjoy having him around - taxi fares are way lower, there’s a good range of ethnic food, and guys in my field can turn a decent dollar on the side, remediating the shitful code that Sanjay produced before the firm’s client database got posted to pastebin and Sanjay was “right sized” the fuck outta there.


    [1] Any political overlords we might share are yours, not mine. I do not have political overlords: their pronouncements are meaningless to me, and if they attempt to coerce me to comply with an edict, I either refuse, or I do damage to government-owned shit until I obtain as much satisfaction to offset the dissatisfaction engendered by complying (with a premium in dollar terms, because utility functions are concave).

  6. I guess Miss Saini came to America to write these articles because they wouldn’t really fly in the reality of India. It’s been 8 years already, India. Where is my flying car??*

    .

    * H/T to the Instapundit – Glenn Reynolds

  7. @HenryA
    I hear that pretty soon in the "Smartest country on the planet"" they're going to get started on indoor plumbing and sewers.

    Real soon – be patient, Henry. Toilets are machines, so in Lavasa, the Indian city o’ the future, toilets will rule.

  8. @HenryA
    I hear that pretty soon in the "Smartest country on the planet"" they're going to get started on indoor plumbing and sewers.

    “Smartest country on the planet”

    Oddly enough, though, they simply can’t tolerate ‘difference’.
    So they inflict themselves upon the rest of us.

    • LOL: Laurence Whelk
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Oddly enough, though, they simply can’t tolerate ‘difference’.
     
    They have more experience with diversity than anyone else on the planet. They know how it turns out.
    , @simple_pseudonymic_handle
    The color scale on that Washington Post map is not straightforward and where that color should go that labels the 15-19% bin looks goofy. Their graphic seems to be designed to intentionally mislead.

    I wonder if anybody has constructed a shit-hole country index and mapped that?

    Found one but I don't trust their ranking:

    https://habitablezone.com/2018/01/28/shithole-country-index/

    , @95Theses
    Hmmm. Maybe they are the smartest.
    , @bigdicknick
    lol israel and india. You can't make this stuff up, folks!
  9. @Blithering

    and yet here in the middle of the Western Ghats, in what can reasonably be called nowhere, I descend into a steep valley and find myself in what will soon become one of the most advanced cities on earth
     
    In shāʾ Allāh. Stories like this warm my heart. Let Indians in the West leave in droves to return, populate, work and thrive in their advanced cities in their native land. Please deny us Westerners the brilliance and genius of India. After all, what was the West without the presence of non-Westerners. Let us Westerners descend and return to a neolithic-like-style of living while India, China and Africa ascend to colonize distant planets.

    Wouldn't that be the greatest revenge against all of the West's centuries of injustices and oppression? The rest of the world thrives to new heights while the West rolls around in its mud huts.

    Let Indians in the West leave in droves to return, populate, work and thrive in their advanced cities in their native land.

    It sounds like a plan, but when there are 1.5 billion of you, you’re able to do all of the above–plus flood the West–without breaking a sweat. Imagine just two billion Indians plus a similar number of Africans, and you’ll have more people than the entire planet contained in 1975.

    That doesn’t even account for Chinese and other Asians, or Latinos, or the fact that Africa is on sched for four billion, not two. Oh yeah, the future looks bright. I mean dark.

    • Replies: @bomag
    Right.

    Can we avoid the problems of population pressure, even if we wanted to? Right now, our political leaders are waving orange glow sticks as they wave more people into this country. And with the current infrastructure of mass travel and prepackaged food, migration is pretty easy.

    I recall popular songs from back in the day would have concerns about such things, i.e. John Denver singing about "more people, more scars upon the land"; Tom T. Halls Subdivision Blues; not so much anymore. Now our host, Ron Unz, will note that the added traffic and construction in Palo Alto gets to the point where it sucks the joy out of life, but with a sense that there is nothing to be done about it.

    I'm certain the future belongs to those willing to control population numbers, but such people are in short supply right now.

    , @AndrewR
    More cringe posting.

    "Latinos" - many of whom are smarter, more honest, less abrasive, and probably whiter than you - have a very low growth rate as a group, and their collective TFR will reach sub-replacement level soon.


    https://geoffboeing.com/2015/12/world-population-projections/
  10. • Replies: @Dieter Kief
    Stages of Folly
    On Engineers and Metaphysical (= Sainical (=Cynical)) Sneers - an inquiry into the depths of the shallowness of Angela Saini, Joe Rogan, Eric Weinstein here and the BRAVE MAN Steve Sailer as seen by Desiderius there - The stage is set for a drama of mental stunts never performed on earth before! - Please welcome For the Benefit of Mr. Kite a philosophical inquiry, which is gliding effortlessly through the modern mental abyss and in the end, by the sheer magic of those otherworldly powers which secure the "clear mind" (Jackson Brwone) - lands safely in the arms of the philosophical wonderboys Wittgenstein & Kant!


    I

    Of course, of course - engineerial satisfaction guaranteed, Desiderius, with regard o Steve Sailer's critique of Angela Saini, I fully agree.

    II

    If I might add one more quibble nonetheless, for the few non-engineers out there, maybe, who might be inclined to follow me for some more thoughts : - : Saini's mistake is to suggest, it would be of any help in her context, to claim that an argument is mathematically (or formally) correct. Thing is: Mathematics is a formal system of great wit and exactitude, no doubt about that. But - mathematics is not about nature - let alone "magical power", or some such, like "a message from something that isn't human" as Eric Weinstein claims in his latest chat with - - - a completely stunned Joe Rogan on his Experience-podcast (who gets exactly zero point zero, of what Weinstein is trying incessantly to explain to him about the existential - and at least wondrously transcendental, if not secretly Godlike altogether - dignity of the n-th emanation of arithmetics - this zero point zero understanding rate of Rogan while at the same time faking true labrador-dog-faced cuteness & fascination, makes him look so perfectly like a dogged fool, that this part of their conversation (starting at 1: hr. 21 min in) is good for a really big fat dirty bark, - - I'd call out while laughing loud!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EWCN3CPhTI

    But back to mathematics: It is about nothing, you could say - nothing other, that is, then formal exactitude in the context of numerous things of whatever quality. So - that's Saini's mistake: She thinks, that something can be proven right or wrong by stating, that it is following mathematical rules. - The argument starts again from the beginning at this point: What you can say about an argument by stating that it is mathematically right is just that: To claim to have something that is right in a technical sense, and again comes the but: Whether this formal correctness is of any use, can only be judged with regard to the real world - which by definition is not the realm of mathematics. The shortcut here is to understand, that mathematics is nonatural science. It's a science about a man-made formal system which as such is very useful indeed - as a tool to understand (and command over) mother (- that's the Bachofen/Heideggerian(Neil Youngian and Beatlelesk part of my story) nature.
    Btw. Eric Weinstein slips into the role of a scientific prophet when he states that his favorite part of mathematics is the "octonions", which transport 8or Are, even) a "message from something that isn't human", while a little later stating, that he is most likely the human being that knows the most about those "octonions" (a class of numbers). - Ha: There is transcendence, I've been there - come follow me, I'll show it to you! - That is in a nutshell, what prophets claimed, since ages, isn't it, and what is now being told by Eric Weinstein, who seems to already have found a lot of followers, willing to accompany him into his new podcast - - - The Portal, where such wonders are waiting for them!?

    Kant - Kant made fun really of thinkers like that, who thought, that there would be a direct connection between being formally right here and - God there. - As in logic - or in mathematics - or otherwise...Diophantically or Arithmetically or Fractually - or Octonially as in Eric Weinstein's case, or what have you...

    Ludwig Wittgenstein put this part of the problem this way: Our technical/mathematical /scientific /logical problems hint at a place, which lays way (way!) beyond logic (and mathematics/arithmetic/etc.). Our existential (and to soem extent our social) problems can hardly be seen from the standpoint of the engineer, or the Logician or "Mathematician" (Bob Dylan) let's say. Dylan is no fool here, he digs perfectly well what's at stake, it's almost as if he'd channel Wittgenstein, this is pure 20th century magic at the crossroads of song, poetry and philosophy: - "some are mathematicians (...) - I don't know what they do with there lives". These two song-lines are condensed Wittgenstein (and Heidegger, too), indeed and to be found on Blood on the Tracks - in the song Tangled up in Blue.

    I might have to add, that the consequence of Wittgenstein's thesis is only directed against those engineers (or mathematicians, or physicists, or podcast hosts (hehe)), who disrespect the boundaries of their profession. (I would not say, that Joe Rogan is a bad guy, just that you see the monkey in a guy in the very moment, he tries to walk on fresh ice - - - slippery, when wet, hehe - the same with Eric Weinstein - they form a duo of existential and philosophical errors of the purest kind (think of Laurel and Hardy, talking about the difference between Be, Being and - Beingness, let's say - or of the Marx Brothers: "What-a-ya-wanna-Bee? Get the hell out of your stings state of Beeing, honey, or I'll never show you which stings in this whole affair can turn out of this closet back there" - - - in that vein).

    cf.
    The Fool in European Theatre: Stages of Folly. Especially the Desiderius-quote on p. 26 and the following thoughts on the Folly of Christ.
    von T. Prentki

    can be read online here:
    https://books.google.de/books?id=kDuDDAAAQBAJ&pg=PA9&lpg=PA9&dq=a+dogged+fool&source=bl&ots=AuRFlPBII6&sig=ACfU3U0Fh4A3I_kOu0lbKfrllVdDJqGvQg&hl=de&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjtxPaxrbDjAhUysaQKHV1wA1Q4ChDoATAIegQIAxAB#v=onepage&q=a%20dogged%20fool&f=false
  11. It’s like she’s in some kind of competition with Saira Rao to be seen as the most obnoxious Indian woman on the internet.

    • Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard
    We need more Indian gals who want to spread joy.

    Like Sunny Leone.
    , @AndrewR
    I'm not entirely convinced she isn't a parody account like Titania McGrath. The blue checkmark means nothing anymore, if it ever did. "Rao" certainly goes out of her way to be inflammatory and provocative. It's worked for Ann Coulter.
    , @SunBakedSuburb
    It seems as if Women of Color are on their way to becoming the dominant political class. Women of White, Beckys and Betsys, should take notice (because they don't like you).
  12. “The smartest country on the planet”

    It’s clickbait.

    I blame Trump.

    Seriously, our advanced, smartest technology on the planet has put the finishing touches on the democratic project of making childish, car salesman, bragging conman discourse our new common language.

    It’s the end of the world, our planet is doomed, everybody sucks and I want an ice cream.

    • Replies: @Mr McKenna
    Shouldn't "The Smartest Country on the Planet" at least be one of the smartest countries on the planet? Or is this some sort of Indian Logic lost upon the rest of us? Near as I can tell, not only is India not smart, it's actually quite stupid, with an average IQ of just over 80. So Indians are about as stupid as American Negroes, which we really don't need more of. For fun, look up "Declining IQ" on Google. You'll get a hundred 'prestige media' explanations of how yes, IQ may be in decline, but it's purely environmental in cause. It's not even because people in stupid countries (and their progeny in the West) are having more kids than smart people are. Nope, none of that. It's because of things like Global Warming. Seriously.
    , @El Dato

    and I want an ice cream
     
    You will get it, but it will be pre-licked by the diversitorium.
  13. Anon[328] • Disclaimer says:

    OT

    Remember John McEnroe on Serena Williams?:

    In an interview with NPR McEnroe was asked about the greatest tennis players of the sport, and said that while Williams has been dominating women’s tennis since 1999, “if she played the men’s circuit she’d be like 700 in the world.”

    “That doesn’t mean I don’t think Serena is an incredible player,” McEnroe continued. “I do, but the reality of what would happen would be I think something that perhaps it’d be a little higher, perhaps it’d be a little lower. And on a given day, Serena could beat some players.”

    While McEnroe isn’t entirely wrong — Williams has said similar things in the past, and in 1998 she played an exhibition match and lost to the 203rd-ranked male player — his observation, especially the 700 number he seems to have pulled out of nowhere, seems unnecessary.

    This misrepresents the interview, as did all print reporting on it. He was ambushed with a question and then berated to follow up on his answer by the female interviewer.

    And as I remember the out-of-his-ass 700 ranking was looked at in more detail by a tennis expert who came up with the number 2,000 as being more probable.

    At any rate, the topic has resurfaced:

    Why in the World Do Men Think They Can Beat Serena Williams?
    https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/6/27/15879520/john-mcenroe-serena-williams-greatest-controversy

    The writer is a young black woman who majored in English at Emerson College in Boston.

    According to a poll from YouGov, one in eight men believe they could score a point in a tennis match against Serena Williams. Yes, you read that right. There are men out there who believe they could face off against a Wheaties box–level athlete and not embarrass themselves. How embarrassing!

    “And not embarrass themselves.” Hold on a seconod. That’s not in fact what they believe. What they believe is that they could score 1 point off of her in a match. Which might indeed still be embarassing.

    The poll, which surveyed 1,732 adults in Great Britain, posed a simple question: “Do you think if you were playing your very best tennis, you could win a point off Serena Williams?”

    While the reasonable response would have been “OF COURSE NOT??” from 100 percent of participants, the results revealed a more delusional grasp of reality. Twelve percent of men surveyed responded, “I think I could,” along with 3 percent of women.

    The confidence level of these men is confounding. Even if they were all somehow tennis players with years of experience, along with the athletic prowess and coolheadedness to take on Serena, what makes them think they could pull one over on one of the greatest athletes in the world?

    In addition, 14 percent of men and 10 percent of women responded that they “don’t know” if they could win a point against Williams. How are they unsure? Sorry, but if you’re not sure how you would fair against Serena Williams in a tennis match, you’re lying to yourself.

    The question was whether they could score a single point. Given male upper body strength, which out-of-the-box is more than a pumped up woman, and the fact that you get some serves, this seems possible for many men with some tennis experience to add accuracy to their strength.

    Here’s some research that says that the gender gap in sports stopped closing 35 years ago:

    Women and Men in Sport Performance: The Gender Gap has not Evolved since 1983
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3761733/

    It’s about 10 percent on average, based on ratio-scale measured sports (time taken, weight lifted, etc.). How to apply this to a complexly scored sport like tennis is difficult.

    Another approach is to make assumptions about how many standard deviations from average and athlete is. The top 8th of all men would be about 1.5 SDs over average.

    Where does Serena Williams fall? One complicating factor is that, especially for women, you have to assume that not every girl who might have excelled in the sport took up the sport, did the years-long training, and then became a pro. There are probably many potentially great women tennis players who never played (also because of the countries they were born in, or poverty), and some who played other sports. Sigma six would be one in a billion; sigma five, one in 3 million; sigma four, one in 30 thousand; sigma three, one in 750. Sigma five maybe, but I think you could go to sigma four.

    How far below men’s tennis performance is women’s tennis performance, in terms of SD? You have the 10 percent difference. You have almost 1 SD difference in average height. Grip strength is about 2 SD different. Remember that a difference of the mean is exagerated at the far right tail. Men being just a little better than women on average in math means almost no women Fields medalists or Nobel physicists.

    My back-of-the-envelope would say that if there is a 3.5 SD gap between the average male and female tennis player, than 1-in-8 men could beat match or beat Serena if she is 5 sigma over female average. (this drops to 2.5 if Serena is 4 sigma.) 3.5 may be larger than reality, but the question was how many men could score “a point” against Serena, not tie or win the match.

    My hunch is that 1-in-8 is maybe not completely crazy, if you throw in some age parameters. The order-of-magnitude smaller 1-in-80 is even more believable. And if you limit it to men with regular tennis experience, or U15 male high school players, they’d get more than a point.

    Of course, the question is easily answerable. Finding guys to go against her would be easy. Television would love to pay for the rights. The fact that we don’t know the answer is telling: The is only one person in the way of our knowing.

    • LOL: Aft
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    how you would fair against Serena Williams
     
    No comment.
    , @Jus' Sayin'...

    "...how you would fair..."
     
    I know how I'd fare in a writing match against "a young black woman who majored in English at Emerson College in Boston"
    , @Anonymous
    Not an accident: US scientist Suzanne Eaton was asphyxiated & dumped into old Nazi bunker in Crete

    Apart from being a prominent scientist, Eaton was also physically fit –she ran daily and even had a second degree black belt in Tae Kwon Do. Given that fact – and the tone of the institute’s statement – one cannot rule out that the police should be looking for several suspects. Still, there’s no word on any leads on the case from local police.
     
    Women have difficulty prevailing against aggressive males. Film at 11.
    , @Autochthon
    Well, probably the men hadn't realised she was a "Wheaties box–level" athlete!

    Hell, I mean, if her photograph appeared on a box of Wheaties, what more is there to be said, really?

    John McEnroe, of course, has never had his photograph appear on a box of Wheaties – I checked! – so he, of course, even in his prime, doubtless would have been humiliated facing off against Serena Williams, right?

    And, say, what about all the women surveyed who reckoned they could score a point against this creature? Why are their responses hand-waved whilst the authoress goes on and on about the impertinence of the men (the women's responses are even excludes from the headline – say, is that sexism?).

    Hmmm.

    , @hhsiii
    When I was 14 and went to Welby Van Horn tennis camp for a week, took weekly lessons and was maybe 5th on the ladder for my age group at the local country club, I’m pretty sure I could have scored one point against her in a 2 set match. Not a game. A point. I would just have whaled every serve, even second servs, as hard as I could.

    The best adult makes in town could have played her fairly well. There’s no doubt in my mind that way more than the top 700 men could beat her.
    , @AndrewR
    One in a billion is far higher than the odds that a black regressive female English major could even begin to approach this subject dispassionately, let alone with any degree of intellectual rigor.

    Vox is utter garbage. It's kinda sad because Klein is legitimately intelligent, but he's also a shameless con-artist who seems to hire very intellectually challenged writers. Vox kind of epitomizes our entire elite class in a nutshell: Hebrew charlatan propped up by wealthy donors hires aggrieved intersectional "victims" (Carlos "Hey everyone did you know I'm GAY and take a drug that allows me to have promiscuous unprotected sex without worrying about getting HIV" Maza perhaps being the worst offender) to browbeat society into accepting complete poz.
    , @Achmed E. Newman
    Firstly, regarding John McEnroe and his rectal extraction, what else can you do? I'm sure he'd have hundreds of men tennis players and his opinions of their talents, in his head. He probably pictured some guy who just seemed to be at that level, at first thought, and remembered ~ what number the guy was ranked.

    On the 1 in 8, what about double-faults? Even I, who haven't played a set of tennis in, let's just say, a long while, might bet on winning a point just due to a double-fault by one of the Williams brothers. I mean, if you can knock back a lob-type serve, maybe just luckily, to a good spot, you can get a point or two. If your opponent knows that he'd feel obligated to hit some harder serves, that would result in a double-fault at some point in 2 sets, wouldn't it? You wouldn't even have to be the portion of the 1 in 8 who know they could hit some good shots off her.
    , @El Dato
    For some reason, "getting a point off Serena" has morphed into "mediocre WHITE men" anti-white meme.

    Did they not find any diversity people in in Britain for this "questionnaire"?

    Would be funny to find out that the people who were sure they could were Young Adults or Wise Tribal Leaders.

    ‘Mediocre white men’: Mockery as poll says 12% of men think they could win point off Serena Williams
    , @Antonius
    I would rather meet Ser Gregor Clegane in a dark dank back alley than Serina Williams.
    , @Deckin
    As far as I’m concerned, only those who have played competitive tennis at a fairly high level (USTA 4.5 and above) are competent to comment on this and, judging from the comments so far, no respondents fit that bill.

    First question for you hackers: just where and when are you going to get your point(s)?

    Not off her serve. I’ve seen her practice close up and all she has to do is throw in kick second serves and that takes out any player probably below a 5.0. Unless you’ve faced one, you have no idea how hard it is even to get clean contact on a high bouncing 85mph+ serve. And she could do that in her sleep.

    How about your serves? Here’s the only chance any hacker would have. But she’d have to trip or stumble not to make minced meat of any club player’s serve— to say nothing of hackers who can’t put 4 shots in a row in court.

    But of course McEnroe is right and Karsten Braasch proved it. Even so, women pros are real good and can hang on doubles courts with touring pros— they do it all the time.

    My suggestion: go to a top tournament where both men and women play. Besides a great time and an eye opening display of talent, you’ll get to appreciate the wonderful sport and see how much better the touring pros are from your club pros ( unless you’re lucky like some of us to have one for a club pro) or anyone else you’ve ever seen.
  14. Anonymous[344] • Disclaimer says:

    Lavasa’s Wikipedia page would seem to indicate that little progress has been made. Also, the city “is stylistically based on the Italian town Portofino, with a street and several buildings bearing the name of that town.”

    Given that Indians have thousands of years worth of architectural heritage to draw upon(some of it pretty spectacular), you’d think they woudn’t need to ape the Italians.

    • Replies: @indocon
    Hindu Indians can certainly claim to several architectural masterpiece, mainly temples and palaces, but not a single whole city as example of their prowess to organize society.
    , @Expletive Deleted
    Release the Rovers!
    http://popapostle.com/Prisoner/images/episodes/P67/A-B-and-C/large-phone_med.jpg

    Sir Clough Williams-Ellis, Portmeirion's designer, denied repeated claims that the design was based on the fishing village of Portofino on the Italian Riviera. He stated only that he wanted to pay tribute to the atmosphere of the Mediterranean. He did, however, draw from a love of the Italian village stating, "How should I not have fallen for Portofino? Indeed its image remained with me as an almost perfect example of the man-made adornment and use of an exquisite site."
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portmeirion

    I sincerely hope that the denizens of this post-Imperial enclave are only identified by numbers, and not by primitive family names. Oh, and have to commute by canopied tricycle or kit Lotus.

    Saina can be No. 666.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Prisoner
  15. India should take the entire population of Somalia in as immigrants. Just for 25 years. Just think, in one generation we are going to take the stupidest most violent people on the planet and turn them all into geniuses. No race science here. We can then allow all of them back to Somalia and what a difference! Too bad nobody thought of this brilliant idea 25 years ago. Instead of a hell hole, Somalia would be filled with dream machine cities led by elected Madam President Omar.

  16. @Mr McKenna

    “Smartest country on the planet”
     
    Oddly enough, though, they simply can't tolerate 'difference'.
    So they inflict themselves upon the rest of us.


    https://i.ibb.co/g60ksfG/racial-tolerance-map-hk-fix.jpg

    Oddly enough, though, they simply can’t tolerate ‘difference’.

    They have more experience with diversity than anyone else on the planet. They know how it turns out.

    • Replies: @Mr McKenna
    Understood, but is that true? I'd bet most people think their countries are reasonably diverse, given the frame of reference. But India is full of Indians, as far as I'm concerned. Is India anywhere near as diverse as the USA?
  17. I descend into a steep valley and find myself in what will soon become one of the most advanced cities on earth.

    And she came back here.

    They’re in the advanced stages of something, for sure.

  18. @Redneck farmer
    And the Untouchable Machines will sh** in the streets.

    “All these memories will be gone, like poos in a loo.”

    • Replies: @SunBakedSuburb
    The replicants in Ridley Scott's Blade Runner (1982) were built by Asian engineers and designed by Tyrell, a white man. They were quite effective but dangerous; so a limited lifespan was encoded. In the movie we live in, the future will feature replicants with no lifespan failsafe but will be built by Indian engineers and designed by Afrofuturists. So, no worries.
  19. Anonymous[135] • Disclaimer says:

    If you exclude programming, which is another kettle of fish entirely, the question really is why has India, and indeed the rest of the subcontinent, had such pitiably poor impact on the consumer and industrial electronics and engineering industries?

    • Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard
    What?

    Reading scripted conversations about Windows XP to little old ladies that call the help line and asking them to, "kindly do the needful," is the same thing as ATM network architecture.

    Totally the same.

    Totally.
    , @Anon000

    If you exclude programming, which is another kettle of fish entirely, the question really is why has India, and indeed the rest of the subcontinent, had such pitiably poor impact on the consumer and industrial electronics and engineering industries?
     
    Kettle of fish or monkeys at keyboards.

    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/boeings-737-max-software-outsourced-204657048.html

    Boeing’s 737 Max Software Outsourced to $9-an-Hour Engineers

    ...the iconic American planemaker and its subcontractors have relied on temporary workers making as little as $9 an hour to develop and test software, often from countries lacking a deep background in aerospace -- notably India.
     
    http://www.newsbiscuit.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/monkeys-at-typewriters.jpg
    , @DB Cooper
    The vast majority of Indians in the US , the so called best and brightest suck in programming.
  20. @Anon
    OT

    Remember John McEnroe on Serena Williams?:

    In an interview with NPR McEnroe was asked about the greatest tennis players of the sport, and said that while Williams has been dominating women’s tennis since 1999, “if she played the men's circuit she'd be like 700 in the world.”

    “That doesn’t mean I don’t think Serena is an incredible player,” McEnroe continued. “I do, but the reality of what would happen would be I think something that perhaps it’d be a little higher, perhaps it’d be a little lower. And on a given day, Serena could beat some players.”

    While McEnroe isn’t entirely wrong — Williams has said similar things in the past, and in 1998 she played an exhibition match and lost to the 203rd-ranked male player — his observation, especially the 700 number he seems to have pulled out of nowhere, seems unnecessary.
     
    This misrepresents the interview, as did all print reporting on it. He was ambushed with a question and then berated to follow up on his answer by the female interviewer.

    And as I remember the out-of-his-ass 700 ranking was looked at in more detail by a tennis expert who came up with the number 2,000 as being more probable.

    At any rate, the topic has resurfaced:

    Why in the World Do Men Think They Can Beat Serena Williams?
    https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/6/27/15879520/john-mcenroe-serena-williams-greatest-controversy

    The writer is a young black woman who majored in English at Emerson College in Boston.

    According to a poll from YouGov, one in eight men believe they could score a point in a tennis match against Serena Williams. Yes, you read that right. There are men out there who believe they could face off against a Wheaties box–level athlete and not embarrass themselves. How embarrassing!
     
    "And not embarrass themselves." Hold on a seconod. That's not in fact what they believe. What they believe is that they could score 1 point off of her in a match. Which might indeed still be embarassing.

    The poll, which surveyed 1,732 adults in Great Britain, posed a simple question: “Do you think if you were playing your very best tennis, you could win a point off Serena Williams?”

    While the reasonable response would have been “OF COURSE NOT??” from 100 percent of participants, the results revealed a more delusional grasp of reality. Twelve percent of men surveyed responded, “I think I could,” along with 3 percent of women.

    The confidence level of these men is confounding. Even if they were all somehow tennis players with years of experience, along with the athletic prowess and coolheadedness to take on Serena, what makes them think they could pull one over on one of the greatest athletes in the world?

    In addition, 14 percent of men and 10 percent of women responded that they “don’t know” if they could win a point against Williams. How are they unsure? Sorry, but if you’re not sure how you would fair against Serena Williams in a tennis match, you’re lying to yourself.
     
    The question was whether they could score a single point. Given male upper body strength, which out-of-the-box is more than a pumped up woman, and the fact that you get some serves, this seems possible for many men with some tennis experience to add accuracy to their strength.

    Here's some research that says that the gender gap in sports stopped closing 35 years ago:

    Women and Men in Sport Performance: The Gender Gap has not Evolved since 1983
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3761733/

    It's about 10 percent on average, based on ratio-scale measured sports (time taken, weight lifted, etc.). How to apply this to a complexly scored sport like tennis is difficult.

    Another approach is to make assumptions about how many standard deviations from average and athlete is. The top 8th of all men would be about 1.5 SDs over average.

    Where does Serena Williams fall? One complicating factor is that, especially for women, you have to assume that not every girl who might have excelled in the sport took up the sport, did the years-long training, and then became a pro. There are probably many potentially great women tennis players who never played (also because of the countries they were born in, or poverty), and some who played other sports. Sigma six would be one in a billion; sigma five, one in 3 million; sigma four, one in 30 thousand; sigma three, one in 750. Sigma five maybe, but I think you could go to sigma four.

    How far below men's tennis performance is women's tennis performance, in terms of SD? You have the 10 percent difference. You have almost 1 SD difference in average height. Grip strength is about 2 SD different. Remember that a difference of the mean is exagerated at the far right tail. Men being just a little better than women on average in math means almost no women Fields medalists or Nobel physicists.

    My back-of-the-envelope would say that if there is a 3.5 SD gap between the average male and female tennis player, than 1-in-8 men could beat match or beat Serena if she is 5 sigma over female average. (this drops to 2.5 if Serena is 4 sigma.) 3.5 may be larger than reality, but the question was how many men could score "a point" against Serena, not tie or win the match.

    My hunch is that 1-in-8 is maybe not completely crazy, if you throw in some age parameters. The order-of-magnitude smaller 1-in-80 is even more believable. And if you limit it to men with regular tennis experience, or U15 male high school players, they'd get more than a point.

    Of course, the question is easily answerable. Finding guys to go against her would be easy. Television would love to pay for the rights. The fact that we don't know the answer is telling: The is only one person in the way of our knowing.

    how you would fair against Serena Williams

    No comment.

    • Replies: @TontoBubbaGoldstein
    All's fair in love and war?
  21. @Reg Cæsar

    Oddly enough, though, they simply can’t tolerate ‘difference’.
     
    They have more experience with diversity than anyone else on the planet. They know how it turns out.

    Understood, but is that true? I’d bet most people think their countries are reasonably diverse, given the frame of reference. But India is full of Indians, as far as I’m concerned. Is India anywhere near as diverse as the USA?

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    "Is India anywhere near as diverse as the USA?"

    It has hundreds of castes and sub-castes who don't intermarry (quite apart from Hindu/Muslim/Jain/Sikh/Buddhist splits), so you've effectively got hundreds if not thousands of different tribes sharing the same country.

    Dalits or untouchables are 17% of the Indian population, but are only 1.5% of Indian immigrants to the US.

    https://www.indiaabroad.com/indian-americans/caste-on-campus-looking-at-social-exclusions-of-dalits-in/article_42d089ce-4a96-11e9-b383-630940b7c400.html
    , @Reg Cæsar
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Indian_castes

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Ethnic_groups_in_India

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_number_of_native_speakers_in_India


    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Brahmin_communities

    , @Logan
    India is far more diverse than the USA, or indeed almost any country.

    Thousands of castes that have intermarried for many centuries,

    More than 100 major languages.

    Widely diverse physiognomy.

    Many, many different religions. Even Hinduism is more accurately described as a grouping of many religions than as a single faith.

    It should not be necessary to point that India's diversity has not been its strength.
    , @AndrewR
    Oh. My. God. You can't stop with the cringe. At least you seemed to show a little humility and willingness to learn at the end here.

    The US has significant populations of people from almost every populated region on Earth, so no India is obviously less diverse. But the genetic, cultural and linguistic diversity in India exceeds almost everywhere on Earth, which isn't surprising given its size and population. The most basic diversity comes down to the Aryan vs Dravidian divide. Many Indians are basically white while others have black skin and eyes. I thought this was common knowledge.
    , @J.Ross
    You haven't read the Flashman papers, have you?
  22. @European-American
    “The smartest country on the planet”

    It’s clickbait.

    I blame Trump.

    Seriously, our advanced, smartest technology on the planet has put the finishing touches on the democratic project of making childish, car salesman, bragging conman discourse our new common language.

    It’s the end of the world, our planet is doomed, everybody sucks and I want an ice cream.

    Shouldn’t “The Smartest Country on the Planet” at least be one of the smartest countries on the planet? Or is this some sort of Indian Logic lost upon the rest of us? Near as I can tell, not only is India not smart, it’s actually quite stupid, with an average IQ of just over 80. So Indians are about as stupid as American Negroes, which we really don’t need more of. For fun, look up “Declining IQ” on Google. You’ll get a hundred ‘prestige media’ explanations of how yes, IQ may be in decline, but it’s purely environmental in cause. It’s not even because people in stupid countries (and their progeny in the West) are having more kids than smart people are. Nope, none of that. It’s because of things like Global Warming. Seriously.

    • Replies: @BengaliCanadianDude
    Yes, but that's with malnutrition. American Negroids have had first world nutrition and facilities for a while. You could do the same with them and it would be much higher
    , @Medvedev
    Flooding Western countries with immigrants from low-IQ countries is one thing.

    The other is dumbing down of the general population. Look at international olympiads/contests in math/programming etc. Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Finland etc lag behind Eastern European and even Balkan (supposedly have lower IQ) countries. Why? Because leftists turned education more into feeling good, not hurting someone feelings, celebrating diversity and homo-pride rather than actual education.
    , @DB Cooper
    Average Indian IQ is mid seventy (76), not low 80. This is consistent with all the different cognitive tests on Indians. But Indians do think highly of themselves.
  23. Is there an equivalent to the GINI coefficient for sanitary plumbing?

  24. @HenryA
    I hear that pretty soon in the "Smartest country on the planet"" they're going to get started on indoor plumbing and sewers.

    HenryA has won this thread going away.

    Since it’s summer I feel we’re ripe for a good pibble hate post.

  25. @Anonymous
    If you exclude programming, which is another kettle of fish entirely, the question really is why has India, and indeed the rest of the subcontinent, had such pitiably poor impact on the consumer and industrial electronics and engineering industries?

    What?

    Reading scripted conversations about Windows XP to little old ladies that call the help line and asking them to, “kindly do the needful,” is the same thing as ATM network architecture.

    Totally the same.

    Totally.

    • LOL: Autochthon
    • Replies: @Autochthon
    Thank you. The idea Hindoos can program foe shit really needs to be put paid early and often whenever it is insinuated.
  26. Anon[328] • Disclaimer says:

    Japanese travel variety shows are pretty useful to watch to figure out what various countries are really like. The Japanese television staff is usually pretty clueless and they just walk out of the airport and take public transportation here and there without doing too much research, since their English is not that great. You really get the unfiltered look at a country, and marvel at the risks the staff subjects itself to.

    A recent foreign street food show had a scene where a Filipino woman on the street recognized the Japanese host from her time working as a remittance immigrant in Japan. After a friendly chat the crew set off again, but the woman told them no, no, turn around and go the other direction, you don’t want to go that way.

    Another show in Italy had the translator warning the Japanese crew that they should remove the seat from the bicycle that the host was riding, or else it would be stolen. A few months later a female host of a completlely different travel show that I was watching was in Italy and her bicycle seat disappeared. How big a market could there be in hot bicycle seats? On the other hand, if your bicycle seat is stolen every week, I guess that makes a market.

    And sexual harassment on the street is really crazy in Italy, although the harassers are fashionably dressed.

    India comes off as dirty, broken down, and with a lot of menacing and apparently unemployed males.

    Various African countries come across as disfunctional, with Japanese employers unable to get staff who show up for work every day and do not steal. And there is no shame: The people come back later and ask for their jobs back. And frankly, the companies have few decent options.

    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
    The last paragraph, by the way, describes many of the people who can't jobs in the current economy.
    , @Autochthon

    How big a market could there be in hot bicycle seats? On the other hand, if your bicycle seat is stolen every week, I guess that makes a market.
     
    Right. It's not theft as such, so much as a complicated extortion ring where one must pay to have one's own (or some other victim's – I imagine the seats of bicycles are pretty fungible) to be returned.

    But – hey! – you'd expect just that level of criminal genius and innovation from The Smartest Country in the World, amiright?!
  27. @eah
    It's like she's in some kind of competition with Saira Rao to be seen as the most obnoxious Indian woman on the internet.

    We need more Indian gals who want to spread joy.

    Like Sunny Leone.

    • Agree: Redneck farmer
    • LOL: BB753
    • Replies: @Bugg
    Fear not, DotsNot Feathers; GOP Congresscritters will hook up you guys and your cousins and for the big business douchebags who hate them anyway at the expense of American college and graduate students. A reminder; Mitch McConnell, Kevin McCarthy and the Chamber of Commerce "free trade" quisling morons and their ilk will on the Day of the Rope deserve 2 behind the ear as much as anyone else-

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/07/12/house-gop-vote-indian-outsourcing-threatens-gops-senate-majority/?fbclid=IwAR20mhUogr5sjeXlkGIqCAspS92AGJCFbXpC0kFiE4yYfl1y1ZC8V_o1ZNU
  28. @216
    Nuclear Weapons

    Nuclear Submarines

    Soon a Nuclear Aircraft Carrier

    And yet they still whine about the British, and still demand the right to revenge-colonize the West.

    India’s nuclear submarines are rebuilds of Soviet hand-me-downs. And while there are some smart Indians, there evidently aren’t enough to go around so that India can man these submarines with a competent crew, e.g. a crew all of whom are aware that all hatches should be shut before submerging. https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/whoops-indias-navy-left-nearly-sunk-its-own-3-billion-nuclear-submarine-66211

    I worked off and on in various positions requiring technical competence for over thirty years. During that time I never met one Indian or Pakistani who really impressed me with his technical capabilities. In fact I was often appalled at how ignorant, devoid of creativity, and just plain dumb many of the Indian and Pakistani H-1b programmers and engineers were, whom I ran across during my career. However, they were unusually good at kissing superiors’ asses and mistreating subordinates.

    • Replies: @Anon
    How exactly did India develop its own nuclear weapons and long range missiles?
    , @Anon
    Except India built its own nuclear weapons.
    , @Pontius
    About 20 years ago while pursuing IT certifications, it became blazingly clear that the value of these certifications were going to be next to nil, as the mob of desperate Indian test takers sullying each and every discussion board looking for cheats and answer keys to memorize so they could ace the exam, would soon dilute the value of these certifications after they showed up to work and couldn't set up a simple user account without referring to a Microsoft manual. I still see this on professional engineering fora.
  29. @Anon
    OT

    Remember John McEnroe on Serena Williams?:

    In an interview with NPR McEnroe was asked about the greatest tennis players of the sport, and said that while Williams has been dominating women’s tennis since 1999, “if she played the men's circuit she'd be like 700 in the world.”

    “That doesn’t mean I don’t think Serena is an incredible player,” McEnroe continued. “I do, but the reality of what would happen would be I think something that perhaps it’d be a little higher, perhaps it’d be a little lower. And on a given day, Serena could beat some players.”

    While McEnroe isn’t entirely wrong — Williams has said similar things in the past, and in 1998 she played an exhibition match and lost to the 203rd-ranked male player — his observation, especially the 700 number he seems to have pulled out of nowhere, seems unnecessary.
     
    This misrepresents the interview, as did all print reporting on it. He was ambushed with a question and then berated to follow up on his answer by the female interviewer.

    And as I remember the out-of-his-ass 700 ranking was looked at in more detail by a tennis expert who came up with the number 2,000 as being more probable.

    At any rate, the topic has resurfaced:

    Why in the World Do Men Think They Can Beat Serena Williams?
    https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/6/27/15879520/john-mcenroe-serena-williams-greatest-controversy

    The writer is a young black woman who majored in English at Emerson College in Boston.

    According to a poll from YouGov, one in eight men believe they could score a point in a tennis match against Serena Williams. Yes, you read that right. There are men out there who believe they could face off against a Wheaties box–level athlete and not embarrass themselves. How embarrassing!
     
    "And not embarrass themselves." Hold on a seconod. That's not in fact what they believe. What they believe is that they could score 1 point off of her in a match. Which might indeed still be embarassing.

    The poll, which surveyed 1,732 adults in Great Britain, posed a simple question: “Do you think if you were playing your very best tennis, you could win a point off Serena Williams?”

    While the reasonable response would have been “OF COURSE NOT??” from 100 percent of participants, the results revealed a more delusional grasp of reality. Twelve percent of men surveyed responded, “I think I could,” along with 3 percent of women.

    The confidence level of these men is confounding. Even if they were all somehow tennis players with years of experience, along with the athletic prowess and coolheadedness to take on Serena, what makes them think they could pull one over on one of the greatest athletes in the world?

    In addition, 14 percent of men and 10 percent of women responded that they “don’t know” if they could win a point against Williams. How are they unsure? Sorry, but if you’re not sure how you would fair against Serena Williams in a tennis match, you’re lying to yourself.
     
    The question was whether they could score a single point. Given male upper body strength, which out-of-the-box is more than a pumped up woman, and the fact that you get some serves, this seems possible for many men with some tennis experience to add accuracy to their strength.

    Here's some research that says that the gender gap in sports stopped closing 35 years ago:

    Women and Men in Sport Performance: The Gender Gap has not Evolved since 1983
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3761733/

    It's about 10 percent on average, based on ratio-scale measured sports (time taken, weight lifted, etc.). How to apply this to a complexly scored sport like tennis is difficult.

    Another approach is to make assumptions about how many standard deviations from average and athlete is. The top 8th of all men would be about 1.5 SDs over average.

    Where does Serena Williams fall? One complicating factor is that, especially for women, you have to assume that not every girl who might have excelled in the sport took up the sport, did the years-long training, and then became a pro. There are probably many potentially great women tennis players who never played (also because of the countries they were born in, or poverty), and some who played other sports. Sigma six would be one in a billion; sigma five, one in 3 million; sigma four, one in 30 thousand; sigma three, one in 750. Sigma five maybe, but I think you could go to sigma four.

    How far below men's tennis performance is women's tennis performance, in terms of SD? You have the 10 percent difference. You have almost 1 SD difference in average height. Grip strength is about 2 SD different. Remember that a difference of the mean is exagerated at the far right tail. Men being just a little better than women on average in math means almost no women Fields medalists or Nobel physicists.

    My back-of-the-envelope would say that if there is a 3.5 SD gap between the average male and female tennis player, than 1-in-8 men could beat match or beat Serena if she is 5 sigma over female average. (this drops to 2.5 if Serena is 4 sigma.) 3.5 may be larger than reality, but the question was how many men could score "a point" against Serena, not tie or win the match.

    My hunch is that 1-in-8 is maybe not completely crazy, if you throw in some age parameters. The order-of-magnitude smaller 1-in-80 is even more believable. And if you limit it to men with regular tennis experience, or U15 male high school players, they'd get more than a point.

    Of course, the question is easily answerable. Finding guys to go against her would be easy. Television would love to pay for the rights. The fact that we don't know the answer is telling: The is only one person in the way of our knowing.

    “…how you would fair…”

    I know how I’d fare in a writing match against “a young black woman who majored in English at Emerson College in Boston”

    • Replies: @I, Libertine
    When Don Imus got fired by MSNBC, a man who described himself as (1) a black man and (2) an editor for MSNBC.com wrote an article in which he expressed dismay that Imus had not previously been "reigned in" by the network.

    I mean, I don't think Imus should have been fired for that ad lib faux pas, but I wouldn't have made him king, either.

    Funny how these little things stick in the memory bank.
  30. When only 0.01% of your population is “above (WEIRD) average”, it sure helps having > 1B inhabitants to make it appear as if you have lots of smart people.

    The caste system is alive and well still, too. Equality for the US but not India, not by a long shot.

  31. As had been said to Arthur Koestler: “We all have inferiority complexes of various sizes, but yours isn’t a complex—it’s a cathedral.”

  32. 80 IQ Indians are about to go all Wakanda on us.

  33. … And yet here in the middle of the Western Ghats, in what can reasonably be called nowhere, I descend into a steep valley and find myself in what will soon become one of the most advanced cities on earth. …

    It seems to be some expensive failure of an experiment, a real-estate developer’s folly. All the online pictures depict a brand new ghost town. There appears to have been little progress since 2011 because of environmental impact delays. Another way India is not China.

    Interest rates in India are high, and you’ve got to figure the carry cost is really high, in terms of cash flow. I’m surprised it hasn’t gone bust yet.

    It is mendacious of Saini to pretend that this place “will soon become one of the most advanced” etc.

    Fortunately, India still has the most spiritually advanced city in the world, Varanasi.

    • Replies: @Romanian
    Really not safe for work or easily upset stomachs.

    http://www.planetcustodian.com/2015/10/19/8134/over-50-scary-images-depicting-filth-of-varanasi-and-river-ganges-that-went-viral-in-china.html
  34. @Jus' Sayin'...
    India's nuclear submarines are rebuilds of Soviet hand-me-downs. And while there are some smart Indians, there evidently aren't enough to go around so that India can man these submarines with a competent crew, e.g. a crew all of whom are aware that all hatches should be shut before submerging. https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/whoops-indias-navy-left-nearly-sunk-its-own-3-billion-nuclear-submarine-66211

    I worked off and on in various positions requiring technical competence for over thirty years. During that time I never met one Indian or Pakistani who really impressed me with his technical capabilities. In fact I was often appalled at how ignorant, devoid of creativity, and just plain dumb many of the Indian and Pakistani H-1b programmers and engineers were, whom I ran across during my career. However, they were unusually good at kissing superiors' asses and mistreating subordinates.

    How exactly did India develop its own nuclear weapons and long range missiles?

    • Replies: @Gordo

    How exactly did India develop its own nuclear weapons and long range missiles?
     
    Low average IQ but massive population so a significant tail on the right side of the curve.

    Also maybe to do with not being homogeneous, some castes high IQ?

    There will be people here who have a better answer than mine I'm sure.
  35. Aft says:

    “India is ridding itself of its poor country image.”

    So while China is one of the world’s most technologically advanced countries masquerading as a “developing nation”, India will pretend it’s not a literal shithole, loaded with racial and ethnic conflict, with PISA scores so low they make Latin American look like a land of geniuses. Saw it in slumdog millionaire so it must be true.

  36. @bored identity
    Angela goes Full Saini all the time:

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/sailer-on-superior-the-return-of-race-science/#comment-3252642

    Stages of Folly
    On Engineers and Metaphysical (= Sainical (=Cynical)) Sneers – an inquiry into the depths of the shallowness of Angela Saini, Joe Rogan, Eric Weinstein here and the BRAVE MAN Steve Sailer as seen by Desiderius there – The stage is set for a drama of mental stunts never performed on earth before! – Please welcome For the Benefit of Mr. Kite a philosophical inquiry, which is gliding effortlessly through the modern mental abyss and in the end, by the sheer magic of those otherworldly powers which secure the “clear mind” (Jackson Brwone) – lands safely in the arms of the philosophical wonderboys Wittgenstein & Kant!

    I

    Of course, of course – engineerial satisfaction guaranteed, Desiderius, with regard o Steve Sailer’s critique of Angela Saini, I fully agree.

    II

    If I might add one more quibble nonetheless, for the few non-engineers out there, maybe, who might be inclined to follow me for some more thoughts : – : Saini’s mistake is to suggest, it would be of any help in her context, to claim that an argument is mathematically (or formally) correct. Thing is: Mathematics is a formal system of great wit and exactitude, no doubt about that. But – mathematics is not about nature – let alone “magical power”, or some such, like “a message from something that isn’t human” as Eric Weinstein claims in his latest chat with – – – a completely stunned Joe Rogan on his Experience-podcast (who gets exactly zero point zero, of what Weinstein is trying incessantly to explain to him about the existential – and at least wondrously transcendental, if not secretly Godlike altogether – dignity of the n-th emanation of arithmetics – this zero point zero understanding rate of Rogan while at the same time faking true labrador-dog-faced cuteness & fascination, makes him look so perfectly like a dogged fool, that this part of their conversation (starting at 1: hr. 21 min in) is good for a really big fat dirty bark, – – I’d call out while laughing loud!

    But back to mathematics: It is about nothing, you could say – nothing other, that is, then formal exactitude in the context of numerous things of whatever quality. So – that’s Saini’s mistake: She thinks, that something can be proven right or wrong by stating, that it is following mathematical rules. – The argument starts again from the beginning at this point: What you can say about an argument by stating that it is mathematically right is just that: To claim to have something that is right in a technical sense, and again comes the but: Whether this formal correctness is of any use, can only be judged with regard to the real world – which by definition is not the realm of mathematics. The shortcut here is to understand, that mathematics is nonatural science. It’s a science about a man-made formal system which as such is very useful indeed – as a tool to understand (and command over) mother (- that’s the Bachofen/Heideggerian(Neil Youngian and Beatlelesk part of my story) nature.
    Btw. Eric Weinstein slips into the role of a scientific prophet when he states that his favorite part of mathematics is the “octonions”, which transport 8or Are, even) a “message from something that isn’t human”, while a little later stating, that he is most likely the human being that knows the most about those “octonions” (a class of numbers). – Ha: There is transcendence, I’ve been there – come follow me, I’ll show it to you! – That is in a nutshell, what prophets claimed, since ages, isn’t it, and what is now being told by Eric Weinstein, who seems to already have found a lot of followers, willing to accompany him into his new podcast – – – The Portal, where such wonders are waiting for them!?

    Kant – Kant made fun really of thinkers like that, who thought, that there would be a direct connection between being formally right here and – God there. – As in logic – or in mathematics – or otherwise…Diophantically or Arithmetically or Fractually – or Octonially as in Eric Weinstein’s case, or what have you…

    Ludwig Wittgenstein put this part of the problem this way: Our technical/mathematical /scientific /logical problems hint at a place, which lays way (way!) beyond logic (and mathematics/arithmetic/etc.). Our existential (and to soem extent our social) problems can hardly be seen from the standpoint of the engineer, or the Logician or “Mathematician” (Bob Dylan) let’s say. Dylan is no fool here, he digs perfectly well what’s at stake, it’s almost as if he’d channel Wittgenstein, this is pure 20th century magic at the crossroads of song, poetry and philosophy: – “some are mathematicians (…) – I don’t know what they do with there lives”. These two song-lines are condensed Wittgenstein (and Heidegger, too), indeed and to be found on Blood on the Tracks – in the song Tangled up in Blue.

    I might have to add, that the consequence of Wittgenstein’s thesis is only directed against those engineers (or mathematicians, or physicists, or podcast hosts (hehe)), who disrespect the boundaries of their profession. (I would not say, that Joe Rogan is a bad guy, just that you see the monkey in a guy in the very moment, he tries to walk on fresh ice – – – slippery, when wet, hehe – the same with Eric Weinstein – they form a duo of existential and philosophical errors of the purest kind (think of Laurel and Hardy, talking about the difference between Be, Being and – Beingness, let’s say – or of the Marx Brothers: “What-a-ya-wanna-Bee? Get the hell out of your stings state of Beeing, honey, or I’ll never show you which stings in this whole affair can turn out of this closet back there” – – – in that vein).

    cf.
    The Fool in European Theatre: Stages of Folly. Especially the Desiderius-quote on p. 26 and the following thoughts on the Folly of Christ.
    von T. Prentki

    can be read online here:
    https://books.google.de/books?id=kDuDDAAAQBAJ&pg=PA9&lpg=PA9&dq=a+dogged+fool&source=bl&ots=AuRFlPBII6&sig=ACfU3U0Fh4A3I_kOu0lbKfrllVdDJqGvQg&hl=de&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjtxPaxrbDjAhUysaQKHV1wA1Q4ChDoATAIegQIAxAB#v=onepage&q=a%20dogged%20fool&f=false

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Always remember:

    Mathematical formalisms are Machines we model in our head. These machines may not even be physically possible (most of them are not, in particular because we still don't know whether spacetime is smooth as ℝ, it would be unlikely). They may be Turing machines, or they may be far, far better than Turing machines (thus unphysical; you can think about them and you can think about their properties; but you cannot run them, not even in your head).

    We are always talking about these Machines that we model and constrain in our head or on paper or using computers.

    The octonions are a good case in point. There is this little octonion-handling Machine we are talking about, right? But it's not real. It works consistently though, it manages the maintain the constraints of function that we demand of it. Very nice.

    Is it of any use? We don't know! Maybe there are things in Nature that could be modeled by this machine, in the same way as many things in Nature can be magically modeled by the Complex Numbers Machine.

    Maybe:

    https://www.quantamagazine.org/the-octonion-math-that-could-underpin-physics-20180720
    , @Logan
    Jordan Peterson has said that the biggest flaw of the intellectual is that he falls in love with his own intellect and the ideas it generates. The funny part is that this is an emotional response and therefore not logical.
  37. @European-American
    “The smartest country on the planet”

    It’s clickbait.

    I blame Trump.

    Seriously, our advanced, smartest technology on the planet has put the finishing touches on the democratic project of making childish, car salesman, bragging conman discourse our new common language.

    It’s the end of the world, our planet is doomed, everybody sucks and I want an ice cream.

    and I want an ice cream

    You will get it, but it will be pre-licked by the diversitorium.

  38. @Mr McKenna
    Understood, but is that true? I'd bet most people think their countries are reasonably diverse, given the frame of reference. But India is full of Indians, as far as I'm concerned. Is India anywhere near as diverse as the USA?

    “Is India anywhere near as diverse as the USA?”

    It has hundreds of castes and sub-castes who don’t intermarry (quite apart from Hindu/Muslim/Jain/Sikh/Buddhist splits), so you’ve effectively got hundreds if not thousands of different tribes sharing the same country.

    Dalits or untouchables are 17% of the Indian population, but are only 1.5% of Indian immigrants to the US.

    https://www.indiaabroad.com/indian-americans/caste-on-campus-looking-at-social-exclusions-of-dalits-in/article_42d089ce-4a96-11e9-b383-630940b7c400.html

  39. Anonymous[182] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dieter Kief
    Stages of Folly
    On Engineers and Metaphysical (= Sainical (=Cynical)) Sneers - an inquiry into the depths of the shallowness of Angela Saini, Joe Rogan, Eric Weinstein here and the BRAVE MAN Steve Sailer as seen by Desiderius there - The stage is set for a drama of mental stunts never performed on earth before! - Please welcome For the Benefit of Mr. Kite a philosophical inquiry, which is gliding effortlessly through the modern mental abyss and in the end, by the sheer magic of those otherworldly powers which secure the "clear mind" (Jackson Brwone) - lands safely in the arms of the philosophical wonderboys Wittgenstein & Kant!


    I

    Of course, of course - engineerial satisfaction guaranteed, Desiderius, with regard o Steve Sailer's critique of Angela Saini, I fully agree.

    II

    If I might add one more quibble nonetheless, for the few non-engineers out there, maybe, who might be inclined to follow me for some more thoughts : - : Saini's mistake is to suggest, it would be of any help in her context, to claim that an argument is mathematically (or formally) correct. Thing is: Mathematics is a formal system of great wit and exactitude, no doubt about that. But - mathematics is not about nature - let alone "magical power", or some such, like "a message from something that isn't human" as Eric Weinstein claims in his latest chat with - - - a completely stunned Joe Rogan on his Experience-podcast (who gets exactly zero point zero, of what Weinstein is trying incessantly to explain to him about the existential - and at least wondrously transcendental, if not secretly Godlike altogether - dignity of the n-th emanation of arithmetics - this zero point zero understanding rate of Rogan while at the same time faking true labrador-dog-faced cuteness & fascination, makes him look so perfectly like a dogged fool, that this part of their conversation (starting at 1: hr. 21 min in) is good for a really big fat dirty bark, - - I'd call out while laughing loud!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EWCN3CPhTI

    But back to mathematics: It is about nothing, you could say - nothing other, that is, then formal exactitude in the context of numerous things of whatever quality. So - that's Saini's mistake: She thinks, that something can be proven right or wrong by stating, that it is following mathematical rules. - The argument starts again from the beginning at this point: What you can say about an argument by stating that it is mathematically right is just that: To claim to have something that is right in a technical sense, and again comes the but: Whether this formal correctness is of any use, can only be judged with regard to the real world - which by definition is not the realm of mathematics. The shortcut here is to understand, that mathematics is nonatural science. It's a science about a man-made formal system which as such is very useful indeed - as a tool to understand (and command over) mother (- that's the Bachofen/Heideggerian(Neil Youngian and Beatlelesk part of my story) nature.
    Btw. Eric Weinstein slips into the role of a scientific prophet when he states that his favorite part of mathematics is the "octonions", which transport 8or Are, even) a "message from something that isn't human", while a little later stating, that he is most likely the human being that knows the most about those "octonions" (a class of numbers). - Ha: There is transcendence, I've been there - come follow me, I'll show it to you! - That is in a nutshell, what prophets claimed, since ages, isn't it, and what is now being told by Eric Weinstein, who seems to already have found a lot of followers, willing to accompany him into his new podcast - - - The Portal, where such wonders are waiting for them!?

    Kant - Kant made fun really of thinkers like that, who thought, that there would be a direct connection between being formally right here and - God there. - As in logic - or in mathematics - or otherwise...Diophantically or Arithmetically or Fractually - or Octonially as in Eric Weinstein's case, or what have you...

    Ludwig Wittgenstein put this part of the problem this way: Our technical/mathematical /scientific /logical problems hint at a place, which lays way (way!) beyond logic (and mathematics/arithmetic/etc.). Our existential (and to soem extent our social) problems can hardly be seen from the standpoint of the engineer, or the Logician or "Mathematician" (Bob Dylan) let's say. Dylan is no fool here, he digs perfectly well what's at stake, it's almost as if he'd channel Wittgenstein, this is pure 20th century magic at the crossroads of song, poetry and philosophy: - "some are mathematicians (...) - I don't know what they do with there lives". These two song-lines are condensed Wittgenstein (and Heidegger, too), indeed and to be found on Blood on the Tracks - in the song Tangled up in Blue.

    I might have to add, that the consequence of Wittgenstein's thesis is only directed against those engineers (or mathematicians, or physicists, or podcast hosts (hehe)), who disrespect the boundaries of their profession. (I would not say, that Joe Rogan is a bad guy, just that you see the monkey in a guy in the very moment, he tries to walk on fresh ice - - - slippery, when wet, hehe - the same with Eric Weinstein - they form a duo of existential and philosophical errors of the purest kind (think of Laurel and Hardy, talking about the difference between Be, Being and - Beingness, let's say - or of the Marx Brothers: "What-a-ya-wanna-Bee? Get the hell out of your stings state of Beeing, honey, or I'll never show you which stings in this whole affair can turn out of this closet back there" - - - in that vein).

    cf.
    The Fool in European Theatre: Stages of Folly. Especially the Desiderius-quote on p. 26 and the following thoughts on the Folly of Christ.
    von T. Prentki

    can be read online here:
    https://books.google.de/books?id=kDuDDAAAQBAJ&pg=PA9&lpg=PA9&dq=a+dogged+fool&source=bl&ots=AuRFlPBII6&sig=ACfU3U0Fh4A3I_kOu0lbKfrllVdDJqGvQg&hl=de&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjtxPaxrbDjAhUysaQKHV1wA1Q4ChDoATAIegQIAxAB#v=onepage&q=a%20dogged%20fool&f=false

    Always remember:

    Mathematical formalisms are Machines we model in our head. These machines may not even be physically possible (most of them are not, in particular because we still don’t know whether spacetime is smooth as ℝ, it would be unlikely). They may be Turing machines, or they may be far, far better than Turing machines (thus unphysical; you can think about them and you can think about their properties; but you cannot run them, not even in your head).

    We are always talking about these Machines that we model and constrain in our head or on paper or using computers.

    The octonions are a good case in point. There is this little octonion-handling Machine we are talking about, right? But it’s not real. It works consistently though, it manages the maintain the constraints of function that we demand of it. Very nice.

    Is it of any use? We don’t know! Maybe there are things in Nature that could be modeled by this machine, in the same way as many things in Nature can be magically modeled by the Complex Numbers Machine.

    Maybe:

    https://www.quantamagazine.org/the-octonion-math-that-could-underpin-physics-20180720

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
    Yep. Thanks.
  40. Anonymous[182] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon
    OT

    Remember John McEnroe on Serena Williams?:

    In an interview with NPR McEnroe was asked about the greatest tennis players of the sport, and said that while Williams has been dominating women’s tennis since 1999, “if she played the men's circuit she'd be like 700 in the world.”

    “That doesn’t mean I don’t think Serena is an incredible player,” McEnroe continued. “I do, but the reality of what would happen would be I think something that perhaps it’d be a little higher, perhaps it’d be a little lower. And on a given day, Serena could beat some players.”

    While McEnroe isn’t entirely wrong — Williams has said similar things in the past, and in 1998 she played an exhibition match and lost to the 203rd-ranked male player — his observation, especially the 700 number he seems to have pulled out of nowhere, seems unnecessary.
     
    This misrepresents the interview, as did all print reporting on it. He was ambushed with a question and then berated to follow up on his answer by the female interviewer.

    And as I remember the out-of-his-ass 700 ranking was looked at in more detail by a tennis expert who came up with the number 2,000 as being more probable.

    At any rate, the topic has resurfaced:

    Why in the World Do Men Think They Can Beat Serena Williams?
    https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/6/27/15879520/john-mcenroe-serena-williams-greatest-controversy

    The writer is a young black woman who majored in English at Emerson College in Boston.

    According to a poll from YouGov, one in eight men believe they could score a point in a tennis match against Serena Williams. Yes, you read that right. There are men out there who believe they could face off against a Wheaties box–level athlete and not embarrass themselves. How embarrassing!
     
    "And not embarrass themselves." Hold on a seconod. That's not in fact what they believe. What they believe is that they could score 1 point off of her in a match. Which might indeed still be embarassing.

    The poll, which surveyed 1,732 adults in Great Britain, posed a simple question: “Do you think if you were playing your very best tennis, you could win a point off Serena Williams?”

    While the reasonable response would have been “OF COURSE NOT??” from 100 percent of participants, the results revealed a more delusional grasp of reality. Twelve percent of men surveyed responded, “I think I could,” along with 3 percent of women.

    The confidence level of these men is confounding. Even if they were all somehow tennis players with years of experience, along with the athletic prowess and coolheadedness to take on Serena, what makes them think they could pull one over on one of the greatest athletes in the world?

    In addition, 14 percent of men and 10 percent of women responded that they “don’t know” if they could win a point against Williams. How are they unsure? Sorry, but if you’re not sure how you would fair against Serena Williams in a tennis match, you’re lying to yourself.
     
    The question was whether they could score a single point. Given male upper body strength, which out-of-the-box is more than a pumped up woman, and the fact that you get some serves, this seems possible for many men with some tennis experience to add accuracy to their strength.

    Here's some research that says that the gender gap in sports stopped closing 35 years ago:

    Women and Men in Sport Performance: The Gender Gap has not Evolved since 1983
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3761733/

    It's about 10 percent on average, based on ratio-scale measured sports (time taken, weight lifted, etc.). How to apply this to a complexly scored sport like tennis is difficult.

    Another approach is to make assumptions about how many standard deviations from average and athlete is. The top 8th of all men would be about 1.5 SDs over average.

    Where does Serena Williams fall? One complicating factor is that, especially for women, you have to assume that not every girl who might have excelled in the sport took up the sport, did the years-long training, and then became a pro. There are probably many potentially great women tennis players who never played (also because of the countries they were born in, or poverty), and some who played other sports. Sigma six would be one in a billion; sigma five, one in 3 million; sigma four, one in 30 thousand; sigma three, one in 750. Sigma five maybe, but I think you could go to sigma four.

    How far below men's tennis performance is women's tennis performance, in terms of SD? You have the 10 percent difference. You have almost 1 SD difference in average height. Grip strength is about 2 SD different. Remember that a difference of the mean is exagerated at the far right tail. Men being just a little better than women on average in math means almost no women Fields medalists or Nobel physicists.

    My back-of-the-envelope would say that if there is a 3.5 SD gap between the average male and female tennis player, than 1-in-8 men could beat match or beat Serena if she is 5 sigma over female average. (this drops to 2.5 if Serena is 4 sigma.) 3.5 may be larger than reality, but the question was how many men could score "a point" against Serena, not tie or win the match.

    My hunch is that 1-in-8 is maybe not completely crazy, if you throw in some age parameters. The order-of-magnitude smaller 1-in-80 is even more believable. And if you limit it to men with regular tennis experience, or U15 male high school players, they'd get more than a point.

    Of course, the question is easily answerable. Finding guys to go against her would be easy. Television would love to pay for the rights. The fact that we don't know the answer is telling: The is only one person in the way of our knowing.

    Not an accident: US scientist Suzanne Eaton was asphyxiated & dumped into old Nazi bunker in Crete

    Apart from being a prominent scientist, Eaton was also physically fit –she ran daily and even had a second degree black belt in Tae Kwon Do. Given that fact – and the tone of the institute’s statement – one cannot rule out that the police should be looking for several suspects. Still, there’s no word on any leads on the case from local police.

    Women have difficulty prevailing against aggressive males. Film at 11.

  41. @Mr McKenna
    Understood, but is that true? I'd bet most people think their countries are reasonably diverse, given the frame of reference. But India is full of Indians, as far as I'm concerned. Is India anywhere near as diverse as the USA?
    • Replies: @Mr McKenna
    No one denies that there are various castes within India.
    See my response to Logan just above though.
    , @StripsOfRed
    Too bad they all look like different shades of brown to me. They need some skilled immigrants from the land of Kung Pao chicken, who can then take them to even greater heights (perhaps Mumbai will become the next Shanghai??) by fixing their massive indoor plumbing issues not to mention drive the next AI rev in India!!

    They need some virile Africans who can win medals for them in the olympics. And spawn some beautiful mixed race babies who can then go on to win even more medals!!

    A win win
  42. • Replies: @bomag
    Watching that clip, I couldn't help but think: India was a crap-hole with Indian servants; but when White servants came along, things improved mightily.
  43. @Anon
    Japanese travel variety shows are pretty useful to watch to figure out what various countries are really like. The Japanese television staff is usually pretty clueless and they just walk out of the airport and take public transportation here and there without doing too much research, since their English is not that great. You really get the unfiltered look at a country, and marvel at the risks the staff subjects itself to.

    A recent foreign street food show had a scene where a Filipino woman on the street recognized the Japanese host from her time working as a remittance immigrant in Japan. After a friendly chat the crew set off again, but the woman told them no, no, turn around and go the other direction, you don't want to go that way.

    Another show in Italy had the translator warning the Japanese crew that they should remove the seat from the bicycle that the host was riding, or else it would be stolen. A few months later a female host of a completlely different travel show that I was watching was in Italy and her bicycle seat disappeared. How big a market could there be in hot bicycle seats? On the other hand, if your bicycle seat is stolen every week, I guess that makes a market.

    And sexual harassment on the street is really crazy in Italy, although the harassers are fashionably dressed.

    India comes off as dirty, broken down, and with a lot of menacing and apparently unemployed males.

    Various African countries come across as disfunctional, with Japanese employers unable to get staff who show up for work every day and do not steal. And there is no shame: The people come back later and ask for their jobs back. And frankly, the companies have few decent options.

    The last paragraph, by the way, describes many of the people who can’t jobs in the current economy.

    • Replies: @L Woods
    Yes, our poor job creators. They’re just too good for us.
  44. @HenryA
    I hear that pretty soon in the "Smartest country on the planet"" they're going to get started on indoor plumbing and sewers.

    Show’s what you know, smartypants. For your information, they have a timeline in place. Hindoos, you see, are so smart they swear everyone there will have “piped drinking water by 2024.” Wow! What godlike technology have they uncovered to make such unimaginably sophisticated miracles a reality, and so soon?!

    Not smart enough to impound sufficient water to avoid catastrophic droughts or to stop shitting out more babies than their resources can support, though.

    Perhaps I am being unfair, though; maybe all the emphasis on rocketry and genetics left no time to study hydrology.

    • Replies: @stillCARealist
    Piped drinking water does not mean clean, safe drinking water.

    Cryptosporidia can do just fine in a a pipe.
  45. @Anon
    OT

    Remember John McEnroe on Serena Williams?:

    In an interview with NPR McEnroe was asked about the greatest tennis players of the sport, and said that while Williams has been dominating women’s tennis since 1999, “if she played the men's circuit she'd be like 700 in the world.”

    “That doesn’t mean I don’t think Serena is an incredible player,” McEnroe continued. “I do, but the reality of what would happen would be I think something that perhaps it’d be a little higher, perhaps it’d be a little lower. And on a given day, Serena could beat some players.”

    While McEnroe isn’t entirely wrong — Williams has said similar things in the past, and in 1998 she played an exhibition match and lost to the 203rd-ranked male player — his observation, especially the 700 number he seems to have pulled out of nowhere, seems unnecessary.
     
    This misrepresents the interview, as did all print reporting on it. He was ambushed with a question and then berated to follow up on his answer by the female interviewer.

    And as I remember the out-of-his-ass 700 ranking was looked at in more detail by a tennis expert who came up with the number 2,000 as being more probable.

    At any rate, the topic has resurfaced:

    Why in the World Do Men Think They Can Beat Serena Williams?
    https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/6/27/15879520/john-mcenroe-serena-williams-greatest-controversy

    The writer is a young black woman who majored in English at Emerson College in Boston.

    According to a poll from YouGov, one in eight men believe they could score a point in a tennis match against Serena Williams. Yes, you read that right. There are men out there who believe they could face off against a Wheaties box–level athlete and not embarrass themselves. How embarrassing!
     
    "And not embarrass themselves." Hold on a seconod. That's not in fact what they believe. What they believe is that they could score 1 point off of her in a match. Which might indeed still be embarassing.

    The poll, which surveyed 1,732 adults in Great Britain, posed a simple question: “Do you think if you were playing your very best tennis, you could win a point off Serena Williams?”

    While the reasonable response would have been “OF COURSE NOT??” from 100 percent of participants, the results revealed a more delusional grasp of reality. Twelve percent of men surveyed responded, “I think I could,” along with 3 percent of women.

    The confidence level of these men is confounding. Even if they were all somehow tennis players with years of experience, along with the athletic prowess and coolheadedness to take on Serena, what makes them think they could pull one over on one of the greatest athletes in the world?

    In addition, 14 percent of men and 10 percent of women responded that they “don’t know” if they could win a point against Williams. How are they unsure? Sorry, but if you’re not sure how you would fair against Serena Williams in a tennis match, you’re lying to yourself.
     
    The question was whether they could score a single point. Given male upper body strength, which out-of-the-box is more than a pumped up woman, and the fact that you get some serves, this seems possible for many men with some tennis experience to add accuracy to their strength.

    Here's some research that says that the gender gap in sports stopped closing 35 years ago:

    Women and Men in Sport Performance: The Gender Gap has not Evolved since 1983
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3761733/

    It's about 10 percent on average, based on ratio-scale measured sports (time taken, weight lifted, etc.). How to apply this to a complexly scored sport like tennis is difficult.

    Another approach is to make assumptions about how many standard deviations from average and athlete is. The top 8th of all men would be about 1.5 SDs over average.

    Where does Serena Williams fall? One complicating factor is that, especially for women, you have to assume that not every girl who might have excelled in the sport took up the sport, did the years-long training, and then became a pro. There are probably many potentially great women tennis players who never played (also because of the countries they were born in, or poverty), and some who played other sports. Sigma six would be one in a billion; sigma five, one in 3 million; sigma four, one in 30 thousand; sigma three, one in 750. Sigma five maybe, but I think you could go to sigma four.

    How far below men's tennis performance is women's tennis performance, in terms of SD? You have the 10 percent difference. You have almost 1 SD difference in average height. Grip strength is about 2 SD different. Remember that a difference of the mean is exagerated at the far right tail. Men being just a little better than women on average in math means almost no women Fields medalists or Nobel physicists.

    My back-of-the-envelope would say that if there is a 3.5 SD gap between the average male and female tennis player, than 1-in-8 men could beat match or beat Serena if she is 5 sigma over female average. (this drops to 2.5 if Serena is 4 sigma.) 3.5 may be larger than reality, but the question was how many men could score "a point" against Serena, not tie or win the match.

    My hunch is that 1-in-8 is maybe not completely crazy, if you throw in some age parameters. The order-of-magnitude smaller 1-in-80 is even more believable. And if you limit it to men with regular tennis experience, or U15 male high school players, they'd get more than a point.

    Of course, the question is easily answerable. Finding guys to go against her would be easy. Television would love to pay for the rights. The fact that we don't know the answer is telling: The is only one person in the way of our knowing.

    Well, probably the men hadn’t realised she was a “Wheaties box–level” athlete!

    Hell, I mean, if her photograph appeared on a box of Wheaties, what more is there to be said, really?

    John McEnroe, of course, has never had his photograph appear on a box of Wheaties – I checked! – so he, of course, even in his prime, doubtless would have been humiliated facing off against Serena Williams, right?

    And, say, what about all the women surveyed who reckoned they could score a point against this creature? Why are their responses hand-waved whilst the authoress goes on and on about the impertinence of the men (the women’s responses are even excludes from the headline – say, is that sexism?).

    Hmmm.

  46. Steve, you are the funniest guy on the inter webs.

    Thanks for starting my day out with a laugh.

  47. @The Wild Geese Howard
    What?

    Reading scripted conversations about Windows XP to little old ladies that call the help line and asking them to, "kindly do the needful," is the same thing as ATM network architecture.

    Totally the same.

    Totally.

    Thank you. The idea Hindoos can program foe shit really needs to be put paid early and often whenever it is insinuated.

  48. Angela Saini is married or produced any children? Wikipedia says nothing on this. She is 38 and fairly decent looking for an Indian woman and among the palest (whitest) 10% of Indians.
    But not too pale to call out UK and the West as racist.

    • Replies: @Hunsdon
    To descend into the vernacular: Would pump. Then dump.
  49. @Anon
    Japanese travel variety shows are pretty useful to watch to figure out what various countries are really like. The Japanese television staff is usually pretty clueless and they just walk out of the airport and take public transportation here and there without doing too much research, since their English is not that great. You really get the unfiltered look at a country, and marvel at the risks the staff subjects itself to.

    A recent foreign street food show had a scene where a Filipino woman on the street recognized the Japanese host from her time working as a remittance immigrant in Japan. After a friendly chat the crew set off again, but the woman told them no, no, turn around and go the other direction, you don't want to go that way.

    Another show in Italy had the translator warning the Japanese crew that they should remove the seat from the bicycle that the host was riding, or else it would be stolen. A few months later a female host of a completlely different travel show that I was watching was in Italy and her bicycle seat disappeared. How big a market could there be in hot bicycle seats? On the other hand, if your bicycle seat is stolen every week, I guess that makes a market.

    And sexual harassment on the street is really crazy in Italy, although the harassers are fashionably dressed.

    India comes off as dirty, broken down, and with a lot of menacing and apparently unemployed males.

    Various African countries come across as disfunctional, with Japanese employers unable to get staff who show up for work every day and do not steal. And there is no shame: The people come back later and ask for their jobs back. And frankly, the companies have few decent options.

    How big a market could there be in hot bicycle seats? On the other hand, if your bicycle seat is stolen every week, I guess that makes a market.

    Right. It’s not theft as such, so much as a complicated extortion ring where one must pay to have one’s own (or some other victim’s – I imagine the seats of bicycles are pretty fungible) to be returned.

    But – hey! – you’d expect just that level of criminal genius and innovation from The Smartest Country in the World, amiright?!

    • Replies: @Expletive Deleted
    They took her bicycle seat, humm?
    I wonder why?
    https://media1.tenor.com/images/1da1875014215517803948327b33f2cf/tenor.gif
  50. @PiltdownMan

    … And yet here in the middle of the Western Ghats, in what can reasonably be called nowhere, I descend into a steep valley and find myself in what will soon become one of the most advanced cities on earth. …
     
    It seems to be some expensive failure of an experiment, a real-estate developer's folly. All the online pictures depict a brand new ghost town. There appears to have been little progress since 2011 because of environmental impact delays. Another way India is not China.

    Interest rates in India are high, and you've got to figure the carry cost is really high, in terms of cash flow. I'm surprised it hasn't gone bust yet.

    It is mendacious of Saini to pretend that this place "will soon become one of the most advanced" etc.

    Fortunately, India still has the most spiritually advanced city in the world, Varanasi.

    https://images.robertharding.com/preview/RM/RH/HORIZONTAL/252-4588.jpg

    • Replies: @El Dato
    It's not worse than playing Half-Life 2.

    We need more nuclear power to clean up.
    , @Smithsonian
    Christ! You weren't kidding! I'd hate to see what their unholy rivers look like.
    , @Jus' Sayin'...
    I cannot imagine a clearer explanation of why they want to come here and why we should not let them.
  51. @Mr McKenna

    Let Indians in the West leave in droves to return, populate, work and thrive in their advanced cities in their native land.
     
    It sounds like a plan, but when there are 1.5 billion of you, you're able to do all of the above--plus flood the West--without breaking a sweat. Imagine just two billion Indians plus a similar number of Africans, and you'll have more people than the entire planet contained in 1975.

    That doesn't even account for Chinese and other Asians, or Latinos, or the fact that Africa is on sched for four billion, not two. Oh yeah, the future looks bright. I mean dark.

    Right.

    Can we avoid the problems of population pressure, even if we wanted to? Right now, our political leaders are waving orange glow sticks as they wave more people into this country. And with the current infrastructure of mass travel and prepackaged food, migration is pretty easy.

    I recall popular songs from back in the day would have concerns about such things, i.e. John Denver singing about “more people, more scars upon the land”; Tom T. Halls Subdivision Blues; not so much anymore. Now our host, Ron Unz, will note that the added traffic and construction in Palo Alto gets to the point where it sucks the joy out of life, but with a sense that there is nothing to be done about it.

    I’m certain the future belongs to those willing to control population numbers, but such people are in short supply right now.

    • Replies: @Mr McKenna
    The future appears to belong to the billions of brown unwashed, overseen by a tiny tribe of self-styled elitists. The rest of us are being written out, along with civilization itself.
  52. @HenryA
    I hear that pretty soon in the "Smartest country on the planet"" they're going to get started on indoor plumbing and sewers.

    They kinda did solve that problem in an unreasonably fast time tho

    There was this 3-year comparison (though I don’t remember the years, I’m guessing between 2014 and 2017) that street shittery got basically eliminated everywhere but in Bihar

  53. @216
    Nuclear Weapons

    Nuclear Submarines

    Soon a Nuclear Aircraft Carrier

    And yet they still whine about the British, and still demand the right to revenge-colonize the West.

    Nuclear Weapons

  54. @Reg Cæsar

    how you would fair against Serena Williams
     
    No comment.

    All’s fair in love and war?

  55. https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/the-gandhi-nobody-knows/

    It should be plain by now that there is much in the Hindu culture that is distasteful to the Western mind, and consequently is largely unknown in the West—not because Hindus do not go on and on about these subjects, but because a Western squeamishness usually prevents these preoccupations from reaching print (not to mention film). When Gandhi attended his first Indian National Congress he was most distressed at seeing the Hindus—not laborers but high-caste Hindus, civic leaders—defecating all over the place, as if to pay attention to where the feces fell was somehow unclean. (For, as V.S. Naipaul puts it, in a twisted Hindu way it is unclean to clean. It is unclean even to notice. “It was the business of the sweepers to remove excrement, and until the sweepers came, people were content to live in the midst of their own excrement.”) Gandhi exhorted Indians endlessly on the subject, saying that sanitation was the first need of India, but he retained an obvious obsession with excreta, gleefully designing latrines and latrine drills for all hands at the ashram, and, all in all, what with giving and taking enemas, and his public bowel movements, and his deep concern with everyone else’s bowel movements (much correspondence), and endless dietary experiments as a function of bowel movements, he devoted a rather large share of his life to the matter. Despite his constant campaigning for sanitation, it is hard to believe that Gandhi was not permanently marked by what Arthur Koestler terms the Hindu “morbid infatuation with filth,” and what V.S. Naipaul goes as far as to call the Indian “deification of filth.” (Decades later, Krishna Menon, a Gandhian and one-time Indian Defense Minister, was still fortifying his sanctity by drinking a daily glass of urine.)

    • Replies: @Anon
    Easy to mock, since it's a foreign culture. "It is unclean to clean" sounds like a nicely succinct expression of "nobility" world wide. Isn't that why servants are needed? Weren't Victorian children ashamed of parents whose money was made in any kind of trade, esp. enema equipment or suchlike?
    Didn't European kings eschew literacy? Wasn't bathing considered unhealthy? Didn't Versailles contain no bathrooms or privies, being nasty, so courtiers relieved themselves in the stairways?
    , @Goob
    Domestic or imported?
  56. @Anonymous
    If you exclude programming, which is another kettle of fish entirely, the question really is why has India, and indeed the rest of the subcontinent, had such pitiably poor impact on the consumer and industrial electronics and engineering industries?

    If you exclude programming, which is another kettle of fish entirely, the question really is why has India, and indeed the rest of the subcontinent, had such pitiably poor impact on the consumer and industrial electronics and engineering industries?

    Kettle of fish or monkeys at keyboards.

    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/boeings-737-max-software-outsourced-204657048.html

    Boeing’s 737 Max Software Outsourced to $9-an-Hour Engineers

    …the iconic American planemaker and its subcontractors have relied on temporary workers making as little as $9 an hour to develop and test software, often from countries lacking a deep background in aerospace — notably India.

    • Replies: @MarkinPNW
    Paying bottom dollar for programmers and "engineers" leaves management a lot of extra funds for bonuses and stock buybacks; so what if a couple of your airliners full of customers fall out of the air.
  57. I’ll be a lot more impressed with India when it doesn’t have half its population shitting in the street.

  58. And she boasts about the Hindu-Sihk conquest of the UK and America in the medical and tech fields-labor markets:”YOU COULDN’T MANAGE OR SURVIVE WITH HINDUS AND SIHKS…LOTS OF THEM…IN THE UK AND AMERICA……”

    But consider this………

    I went to the BOOK REVIEW….down the road from Mr. and Mrs Derbyshire….last night…….The table in the front with the adjacent book shelves stocked with mountains of books on Alpha White Males Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin….And Apollo 11……because it was 50 years ago this summer that a 90 percent NATIVE BORN WHITE AMERICAN MAJORITY……and nearly 100 percent HUWHITE NASA….and nearly 100 percent HUWHITE Gruman Corp…..placed two ALPHA NATIVE BORN WHITE AMERICAN MALES on the Moon where they did the HUWHITE MAN WALKS THE MOON………..We seem to have done quite well in 1969 when there hardly any Hindu “Americans” and Sihk “Americans” in our HUWHITE AMERICA!!!!

  59. anon[296] • Disclaimer says:

    Modeled on the cotton-candy harbor of Italy’s Portofino, Lavasa is a typical example of a large-scale infrastructure project gone bad.

    This onetime hilltop paradise is becoming for some a hell on earth.

    The days of zero crime are over. Garbage collection is sporadic, so litter soils the man-made lake. Storefronts are vacant. Signs of neglect are everywhere: maintenance is late or nonexistent. And that’s for the construction already done. For the unfinished building works—i.e. most of it—there is little happening.

    Wakanda fantasy was that? Regression towards the civilizational mean.

    https://theprint.in/featured/lavasa-indian-billionaires-paradise-has-now-become-a-hell-on-earth/72043/

  60. In Hindu ruled America….POTUS KAMALA HARRIS…ATTORNEY GENERAL PREET BHARRA….Native Born White American Working Class Youth get to be deskilled-and clean the toilets of the Hindu “American” Overlords….the deskilling has been underway for quite awhile.

    And it is a deliberate and now open Labor Policy as Miss Saini will now tells us…..And it is a policy of WHITE GENOCIDE!!!!!……Our People are under no obligation to tolerate this….

  61. @Anon
    OT

    Remember John McEnroe on Serena Williams?:

    In an interview with NPR McEnroe was asked about the greatest tennis players of the sport, and said that while Williams has been dominating women’s tennis since 1999, “if she played the men's circuit she'd be like 700 in the world.”

    “That doesn’t mean I don’t think Serena is an incredible player,” McEnroe continued. “I do, but the reality of what would happen would be I think something that perhaps it’d be a little higher, perhaps it’d be a little lower. And on a given day, Serena could beat some players.”

    While McEnroe isn’t entirely wrong — Williams has said similar things in the past, and in 1998 she played an exhibition match and lost to the 203rd-ranked male player — his observation, especially the 700 number he seems to have pulled out of nowhere, seems unnecessary.
     
    This misrepresents the interview, as did all print reporting on it. He was ambushed with a question and then berated to follow up on his answer by the female interviewer.

    And as I remember the out-of-his-ass 700 ranking was looked at in more detail by a tennis expert who came up with the number 2,000 as being more probable.

    At any rate, the topic has resurfaced:

    Why in the World Do Men Think They Can Beat Serena Williams?
    https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/6/27/15879520/john-mcenroe-serena-williams-greatest-controversy

    The writer is a young black woman who majored in English at Emerson College in Boston.

    According to a poll from YouGov, one in eight men believe they could score a point in a tennis match against Serena Williams. Yes, you read that right. There are men out there who believe they could face off against a Wheaties box–level athlete and not embarrass themselves. How embarrassing!
     
    "And not embarrass themselves." Hold on a seconod. That's not in fact what they believe. What they believe is that they could score 1 point off of her in a match. Which might indeed still be embarassing.

    The poll, which surveyed 1,732 adults in Great Britain, posed a simple question: “Do you think if you were playing your very best tennis, you could win a point off Serena Williams?”

    While the reasonable response would have been “OF COURSE NOT??” from 100 percent of participants, the results revealed a more delusional grasp of reality. Twelve percent of men surveyed responded, “I think I could,” along with 3 percent of women.

    The confidence level of these men is confounding. Even if they were all somehow tennis players with years of experience, along with the athletic prowess and coolheadedness to take on Serena, what makes them think they could pull one over on one of the greatest athletes in the world?

    In addition, 14 percent of men and 10 percent of women responded that they “don’t know” if they could win a point against Williams. How are they unsure? Sorry, but if you’re not sure how you would fair against Serena Williams in a tennis match, you’re lying to yourself.
     
    The question was whether they could score a single point. Given male upper body strength, which out-of-the-box is more than a pumped up woman, and the fact that you get some serves, this seems possible for many men with some tennis experience to add accuracy to their strength.

    Here's some research that says that the gender gap in sports stopped closing 35 years ago:

    Women and Men in Sport Performance: The Gender Gap has not Evolved since 1983
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3761733/

    It's about 10 percent on average, based on ratio-scale measured sports (time taken, weight lifted, etc.). How to apply this to a complexly scored sport like tennis is difficult.

    Another approach is to make assumptions about how many standard deviations from average and athlete is. The top 8th of all men would be about 1.5 SDs over average.

    Where does Serena Williams fall? One complicating factor is that, especially for women, you have to assume that not every girl who might have excelled in the sport took up the sport, did the years-long training, and then became a pro. There are probably many potentially great women tennis players who never played (also because of the countries they were born in, or poverty), and some who played other sports. Sigma six would be one in a billion; sigma five, one in 3 million; sigma four, one in 30 thousand; sigma three, one in 750. Sigma five maybe, but I think you could go to sigma four.

    How far below men's tennis performance is women's tennis performance, in terms of SD? You have the 10 percent difference. You have almost 1 SD difference in average height. Grip strength is about 2 SD different. Remember that a difference of the mean is exagerated at the far right tail. Men being just a little better than women on average in math means almost no women Fields medalists or Nobel physicists.

    My back-of-the-envelope would say that if there is a 3.5 SD gap between the average male and female tennis player, than 1-in-8 men could beat match or beat Serena if she is 5 sigma over female average. (this drops to 2.5 if Serena is 4 sigma.) 3.5 may be larger than reality, but the question was how many men could score "a point" against Serena, not tie or win the match.

    My hunch is that 1-in-8 is maybe not completely crazy, if you throw in some age parameters. The order-of-magnitude smaller 1-in-80 is even more believable. And if you limit it to men with regular tennis experience, or U15 male high school players, they'd get more than a point.

    Of course, the question is easily answerable. Finding guys to go against her would be easy. Television would love to pay for the rights. The fact that we don't know the answer is telling: The is only one person in the way of our knowing.

    When I was 14 and went to Welby Van Horn tennis camp for a week, took weekly lessons and was maybe 5th on the ladder for my age group at the local country club, I’m pretty sure I could have scored one point against her in a 2 set match. Not a game. A point. I would just have whaled every serve, even second servs, as hard as I could.

    The best adult makes in town could have played her fairly well. There’s no doubt in my mind that way more than the top 700 men could beat her.

    • Replies: @stillCARealist
    I played a women's pickup basketball game and one of my opponents was on the practice squad for the Sacramento Monarchs. I boxed her out and got a rebound!
    The rest of the game she utterly dominated.
    , @International Jew
    You'd score that point when she made an unforced error. She makes unforced errors several times in a match.

    But that won't apply when she's playing you. In a tournament match she's playing strong players so she takes chances, like aiming within just a foot of a foul line or a yard of the baseline. Whereas against you, she wouldn't take such chances; she could blow you away just hitting hard ground strokes into the center of your court. Likewise, she'd never double fault against you because she could ace you with second-serve speed and placement.

    So my guess is, you wouldn't get even one point.

  62. @Redneck farmer
    And the Untouchable Machines will sh** in the streets.

    Dalits may be disproportionately unlikely to poo in the loo, but most street-sh!tters are not Dalit.

  63. @Mr McKenna
    Understood, but is that true? I'd bet most people think their countries are reasonably diverse, given the frame of reference. But India is full of Indians, as far as I'm concerned. Is India anywhere near as diverse as the USA?

    India is far more diverse than the USA, or indeed almost any country.

    Thousands of castes that have intermarried for many centuries,

    More than 100 major languages.

    Widely diverse physiognomy.

    Many, many different religions. Even Hinduism is more accurately described as a grouping of many religions than as a single faith.

    It should not be necessary to point that India’s diversity has not been its strength.

    • Replies: @Mr McKenna

    India is far more diverse than the USA, or indeed almost any country.
     
    At the risk of pointing out the obvious, to an observer from the far side of the globe, all of these different people from different castes will still easily be recognized as "Indian" people. Not so the USA: easily half of the people in our country would not, on sight alone, easily be recognized as American by someone from the far side of the globe (or even nearby). Surely this is a significant distinction.
  64. @Dieter Kief
    Stages of Folly
    On Engineers and Metaphysical (= Sainical (=Cynical)) Sneers - an inquiry into the depths of the shallowness of Angela Saini, Joe Rogan, Eric Weinstein here and the BRAVE MAN Steve Sailer as seen by Desiderius there - The stage is set for a drama of mental stunts never performed on earth before! - Please welcome For the Benefit of Mr. Kite a philosophical inquiry, which is gliding effortlessly through the modern mental abyss and in the end, by the sheer magic of those otherworldly powers which secure the "clear mind" (Jackson Brwone) - lands safely in the arms of the philosophical wonderboys Wittgenstein & Kant!


    I

    Of course, of course - engineerial satisfaction guaranteed, Desiderius, with regard o Steve Sailer's critique of Angela Saini, I fully agree.

    II

    If I might add one more quibble nonetheless, for the few non-engineers out there, maybe, who might be inclined to follow me for some more thoughts : - : Saini's mistake is to suggest, it would be of any help in her context, to claim that an argument is mathematically (or formally) correct. Thing is: Mathematics is a formal system of great wit and exactitude, no doubt about that. But - mathematics is not about nature - let alone "magical power", or some such, like "a message from something that isn't human" as Eric Weinstein claims in his latest chat with - - - a completely stunned Joe Rogan on his Experience-podcast (who gets exactly zero point zero, of what Weinstein is trying incessantly to explain to him about the existential - and at least wondrously transcendental, if not secretly Godlike altogether - dignity of the n-th emanation of arithmetics - this zero point zero understanding rate of Rogan while at the same time faking true labrador-dog-faced cuteness & fascination, makes him look so perfectly like a dogged fool, that this part of their conversation (starting at 1: hr. 21 min in) is good for a really big fat dirty bark, - - I'd call out while laughing loud!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EWCN3CPhTI

    But back to mathematics: It is about nothing, you could say - nothing other, that is, then formal exactitude in the context of numerous things of whatever quality. So - that's Saini's mistake: She thinks, that something can be proven right or wrong by stating, that it is following mathematical rules. - The argument starts again from the beginning at this point: What you can say about an argument by stating that it is mathematically right is just that: To claim to have something that is right in a technical sense, and again comes the but: Whether this formal correctness is of any use, can only be judged with regard to the real world - which by definition is not the realm of mathematics. The shortcut here is to understand, that mathematics is nonatural science. It's a science about a man-made formal system which as such is very useful indeed - as a tool to understand (and command over) mother (- that's the Bachofen/Heideggerian(Neil Youngian and Beatlelesk part of my story) nature.
    Btw. Eric Weinstein slips into the role of a scientific prophet when he states that his favorite part of mathematics is the "octonions", which transport 8or Are, even) a "message from something that isn't human", while a little later stating, that he is most likely the human being that knows the most about those "octonions" (a class of numbers). - Ha: There is transcendence, I've been there - come follow me, I'll show it to you! - That is in a nutshell, what prophets claimed, since ages, isn't it, and what is now being told by Eric Weinstein, who seems to already have found a lot of followers, willing to accompany him into his new podcast - - - The Portal, where such wonders are waiting for them!?

    Kant - Kant made fun really of thinkers like that, who thought, that there would be a direct connection between being formally right here and - God there. - As in logic - or in mathematics - or otherwise...Diophantically or Arithmetically or Fractually - or Octonially as in Eric Weinstein's case, or what have you...

    Ludwig Wittgenstein put this part of the problem this way: Our technical/mathematical /scientific /logical problems hint at a place, which lays way (way!) beyond logic (and mathematics/arithmetic/etc.). Our existential (and to soem extent our social) problems can hardly be seen from the standpoint of the engineer, or the Logician or "Mathematician" (Bob Dylan) let's say. Dylan is no fool here, he digs perfectly well what's at stake, it's almost as if he'd channel Wittgenstein, this is pure 20th century magic at the crossroads of song, poetry and philosophy: - "some are mathematicians (...) - I don't know what they do with there lives". These two song-lines are condensed Wittgenstein (and Heidegger, too), indeed and to be found on Blood on the Tracks - in the song Tangled up in Blue.

    I might have to add, that the consequence of Wittgenstein's thesis is only directed against those engineers (or mathematicians, or physicists, or podcast hosts (hehe)), who disrespect the boundaries of their profession. (I would not say, that Joe Rogan is a bad guy, just that you see the monkey in a guy in the very moment, he tries to walk on fresh ice - - - slippery, when wet, hehe - the same with Eric Weinstein - they form a duo of existential and philosophical errors of the purest kind (think of Laurel and Hardy, talking about the difference between Be, Being and - Beingness, let's say - or of the Marx Brothers: "What-a-ya-wanna-Bee? Get the hell out of your stings state of Beeing, honey, or I'll never show you which stings in this whole affair can turn out of this closet back there" - - - in that vein).

    cf.
    The Fool in European Theatre: Stages of Folly. Especially the Desiderius-quote on p. 26 and the following thoughts on the Folly of Christ.
    von T. Prentki

    can be read online here:
    https://books.google.de/books?id=kDuDDAAAQBAJ&pg=PA9&lpg=PA9&dq=a+dogged+fool&source=bl&ots=AuRFlPBII6&sig=ACfU3U0Fh4A3I_kOu0lbKfrllVdDJqGvQg&hl=de&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjtxPaxrbDjAhUysaQKHV1wA1Q4ChDoATAIegQIAxAB#v=onepage&q=a%20dogged%20fool&f=false

    Jordan Peterson has said that the biggest flaw of the intellectual is that he falls in love with his own intellect and the ideas it generates. The funny part is that this is an emotional response and therefore not logical.

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
    Yeah, and Peterson says, that this intellectual narcissism could be looked upon as the natural (= built-in, so to speak) disadvantage of the intellectual compared to the lesser gifted. -


    - A thought I have brought up here some time ago in a lengthy comment too. I called it the law of the higher level of built-in natural distraction of the intellectually more gifted or some such. - Rationalizations are of special interest here. Freud's rationalizations can - on the descriptive level - be understood as distractive powers - or powers which take a toll on clear thinking. The neurotic defense mechanism of rationalization meaning just that: Neurotic persons are persons, who's ability to think in a reasonable way is lowered.

    I know of one situation, in which Peterson discusses this specific Achille's heel of the rather bright humans: In his discussion with Joe Rogan in The Joe Rogan Experience #1208. It's here starting at 53minutes 50 seconds

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIeFt88Hm8s


    Would you know of any other opportunity Peterson wrote or talked about this subject?
  65. @Mr McKenna

    Let Indians in the West leave in droves to return, populate, work and thrive in their advanced cities in their native land.
     
    It sounds like a plan, but when there are 1.5 billion of you, you're able to do all of the above--plus flood the West--without breaking a sweat. Imagine just two billion Indians plus a similar number of Africans, and you'll have more people than the entire planet contained in 1975.

    That doesn't even account for Chinese and other Asians, or Latinos, or the fact that Africa is on sched for four billion, not two. Oh yeah, the future looks bright. I mean dark.

    More cringe posting.

    “Latinos” – many of whom are smarter, more honest, less abrasive, and probably whiter than you – have a very low growth rate as a group, and their collective TFR will reach sub-replacement level soon.

    https://geoffboeing.com/2015/12/world-population-projections/

  66. @eah
    It's like she's in some kind of competition with Saira Rao to be seen as the most obnoxious Indian woman on the internet.

    I’m not entirely convinced she isn’t a parody account like Titania McGrath. The blue checkmark means nothing anymore, if it ever did. “Rao” certainly goes out of her way to be inflammatory and provocative. It’s worked for Ann Coulter.

    • Replies: @eah
    I’m not entirely convinced she isn’t a parody account like Titania McGrath.

    She contested the Democratic congressional primary for CO's 1st district in 2018; so I don't know... -- but I can understand the suspicion -- the 1st is 60% white.
  67. @Anon
    OT

    Remember John McEnroe on Serena Williams?:

    In an interview with NPR McEnroe was asked about the greatest tennis players of the sport, and said that while Williams has been dominating women’s tennis since 1999, “if she played the men's circuit she'd be like 700 in the world.”

    “That doesn’t mean I don’t think Serena is an incredible player,” McEnroe continued. “I do, but the reality of what would happen would be I think something that perhaps it’d be a little higher, perhaps it’d be a little lower. And on a given day, Serena could beat some players.”

    While McEnroe isn’t entirely wrong — Williams has said similar things in the past, and in 1998 she played an exhibition match and lost to the 203rd-ranked male player — his observation, especially the 700 number he seems to have pulled out of nowhere, seems unnecessary.
     
    This misrepresents the interview, as did all print reporting on it. He was ambushed with a question and then berated to follow up on his answer by the female interviewer.

    And as I remember the out-of-his-ass 700 ranking was looked at in more detail by a tennis expert who came up with the number 2,000 as being more probable.

    At any rate, the topic has resurfaced:

    Why in the World Do Men Think They Can Beat Serena Williams?
    https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/6/27/15879520/john-mcenroe-serena-williams-greatest-controversy

    The writer is a young black woman who majored in English at Emerson College in Boston.

    According to a poll from YouGov, one in eight men believe they could score a point in a tennis match against Serena Williams. Yes, you read that right. There are men out there who believe they could face off against a Wheaties box–level athlete and not embarrass themselves. How embarrassing!
     
    "And not embarrass themselves." Hold on a seconod. That's not in fact what they believe. What they believe is that they could score 1 point off of her in a match. Which might indeed still be embarassing.

    The poll, which surveyed 1,732 adults in Great Britain, posed a simple question: “Do you think if you were playing your very best tennis, you could win a point off Serena Williams?”

    While the reasonable response would have been “OF COURSE NOT??” from 100 percent of participants, the results revealed a more delusional grasp of reality. Twelve percent of men surveyed responded, “I think I could,” along with 3 percent of women.

    The confidence level of these men is confounding. Even if they were all somehow tennis players with years of experience, along with the athletic prowess and coolheadedness to take on Serena, what makes them think they could pull one over on one of the greatest athletes in the world?

    In addition, 14 percent of men and 10 percent of women responded that they “don’t know” if they could win a point against Williams. How are they unsure? Sorry, but if you’re not sure how you would fair against Serena Williams in a tennis match, you’re lying to yourself.
     
    The question was whether they could score a single point. Given male upper body strength, which out-of-the-box is more than a pumped up woman, and the fact that you get some serves, this seems possible for many men with some tennis experience to add accuracy to their strength.

    Here's some research that says that the gender gap in sports stopped closing 35 years ago:

    Women and Men in Sport Performance: The Gender Gap has not Evolved since 1983
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3761733/

    It's about 10 percent on average, based on ratio-scale measured sports (time taken, weight lifted, etc.). How to apply this to a complexly scored sport like tennis is difficult.

    Another approach is to make assumptions about how many standard deviations from average and athlete is. The top 8th of all men would be about 1.5 SDs over average.

    Where does Serena Williams fall? One complicating factor is that, especially for women, you have to assume that not every girl who might have excelled in the sport took up the sport, did the years-long training, and then became a pro. There are probably many potentially great women tennis players who never played (also because of the countries they were born in, or poverty), and some who played other sports. Sigma six would be one in a billion; sigma five, one in 3 million; sigma four, one in 30 thousand; sigma three, one in 750. Sigma five maybe, but I think you could go to sigma four.

    How far below men's tennis performance is women's tennis performance, in terms of SD? You have the 10 percent difference. You have almost 1 SD difference in average height. Grip strength is about 2 SD different. Remember that a difference of the mean is exagerated at the far right tail. Men being just a little better than women on average in math means almost no women Fields medalists or Nobel physicists.

    My back-of-the-envelope would say that if there is a 3.5 SD gap between the average male and female tennis player, than 1-in-8 men could beat match or beat Serena if she is 5 sigma over female average. (this drops to 2.5 if Serena is 4 sigma.) 3.5 may be larger than reality, but the question was how many men could score "a point" against Serena, not tie or win the match.

    My hunch is that 1-in-8 is maybe not completely crazy, if you throw in some age parameters. The order-of-magnitude smaller 1-in-80 is even more believable. And if you limit it to men with regular tennis experience, or U15 male high school players, they'd get more than a point.

    Of course, the question is easily answerable. Finding guys to go against her would be easy. Television would love to pay for the rights. The fact that we don't know the answer is telling: The is only one person in the way of our knowing.

    One in a billion is far higher than the odds that a black regressive female English major could even begin to approach this subject dispassionately, let alone with any degree of intellectual rigor.

    Vox is utter garbage. It’s kinda sad because Klein is legitimately intelligent, but he’s also a shameless con-artist who seems to hire very intellectually challenged writers. Vox kind of epitomizes our entire elite class in a nutshell: Hebrew charlatan propped up by wealthy donors hires aggrieved intersectional “victims” (Carlos “Hey everyone did you know I’m GAY and take a drug that allows me to have promiscuous unprotected sex without worrying about getting HIV” Maza perhaps being the worst offender) to browbeat society into accepting complete poz.

  68. @hhsiii
    When I was 14 and went to Welby Van Horn tennis camp for a week, took weekly lessons and was maybe 5th on the ladder for my age group at the local country club, I’m pretty sure I could have scored one point against her in a 2 set match. Not a game. A point. I would just have whaled every serve, even second servs, as hard as I could.

    The best adult makes in town could have played her fairly well. There’s no doubt in my mind that way more than the top 700 men could beat her.

    I played a women’s pickup basketball game and one of my opponents was on the practice squad for the Sacramento Monarchs. I boxed her out and got a rebound!
    The rest of the game she utterly dominated.

  69. Someone should report her to that new Twitter club that’s looking for racists.

  70. @Anon
    OT

    Remember John McEnroe on Serena Williams?:

    In an interview with NPR McEnroe was asked about the greatest tennis players of the sport, and said that while Williams has been dominating women’s tennis since 1999, “if she played the men's circuit she'd be like 700 in the world.”

    “That doesn’t mean I don’t think Serena is an incredible player,” McEnroe continued. “I do, but the reality of what would happen would be I think something that perhaps it’d be a little higher, perhaps it’d be a little lower. And on a given day, Serena could beat some players.”

    While McEnroe isn’t entirely wrong — Williams has said similar things in the past, and in 1998 she played an exhibition match and lost to the 203rd-ranked male player — his observation, especially the 700 number he seems to have pulled out of nowhere, seems unnecessary.
     
    This misrepresents the interview, as did all print reporting on it. He was ambushed with a question and then berated to follow up on his answer by the female interviewer.

    And as I remember the out-of-his-ass 700 ranking was looked at in more detail by a tennis expert who came up with the number 2,000 as being more probable.

    At any rate, the topic has resurfaced:

    Why in the World Do Men Think They Can Beat Serena Williams?
    https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/6/27/15879520/john-mcenroe-serena-williams-greatest-controversy

    The writer is a young black woman who majored in English at Emerson College in Boston.

    According to a poll from YouGov, one in eight men believe they could score a point in a tennis match against Serena Williams. Yes, you read that right. There are men out there who believe they could face off against a Wheaties box–level athlete and not embarrass themselves. How embarrassing!
     
    "And not embarrass themselves." Hold on a seconod. That's not in fact what they believe. What they believe is that they could score 1 point off of her in a match. Which might indeed still be embarassing.

    The poll, which surveyed 1,732 adults in Great Britain, posed a simple question: “Do you think if you were playing your very best tennis, you could win a point off Serena Williams?”

    While the reasonable response would have been “OF COURSE NOT??” from 100 percent of participants, the results revealed a more delusional grasp of reality. Twelve percent of men surveyed responded, “I think I could,” along with 3 percent of women.

    The confidence level of these men is confounding. Even if they were all somehow tennis players with years of experience, along with the athletic prowess and coolheadedness to take on Serena, what makes them think they could pull one over on one of the greatest athletes in the world?

    In addition, 14 percent of men and 10 percent of women responded that they “don’t know” if they could win a point against Williams. How are they unsure? Sorry, but if you’re not sure how you would fair against Serena Williams in a tennis match, you’re lying to yourself.
     
    The question was whether they could score a single point. Given male upper body strength, which out-of-the-box is more than a pumped up woman, and the fact that you get some serves, this seems possible for many men with some tennis experience to add accuracy to their strength.

    Here's some research that says that the gender gap in sports stopped closing 35 years ago:

    Women and Men in Sport Performance: The Gender Gap has not Evolved since 1983
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3761733/

    It's about 10 percent on average, based on ratio-scale measured sports (time taken, weight lifted, etc.). How to apply this to a complexly scored sport like tennis is difficult.

    Another approach is to make assumptions about how many standard deviations from average and athlete is. The top 8th of all men would be about 1.5 SDs over average.

    Where does Serena Williams fall? One complicating factor is that, especially for women, you have to assume that not every girl who might have excelled in the sport took up the sport, did the years-long training, and then became a pro. There are probably many potentially great women tennis players who never played (also because of the countries they were born in, or poverty), and some who played other sports. Sigma six would be one in a billion; sigma five, one in 3 million; sigma four, one in 30 thousand; sigma three, one in 750. Sigma five maybe, but I think you could go to sigma four.

    How far below men's tennis performance is women's tennis performance, in terms of SD? You have the 10 percent difference. You have almost 1 SD difference in average height. Grip strength is about 2 SD different. Remember that a difference of the mean is exagerated at the far right tail. Men being just a little better than women on average in math means almost no women Fields medalists or Nobel physicists.

    My back-of-the-envelope would say that if there is a 3.5 SD gap between the average male and female tennis player, than 1-in-8 men could beat match or beat Serena if she is 5 sigma over female average. (this drops to 2.5 if Serena is 4 sigma.) 3.5 may be larger than reality, but the question was how many men could score "a point" against Serena, not tie or win the match.

    My hunch is that 1-in-8 is maybe not completely crazy, if you throw in some age parameters. The order-of-magnitude smaller 1-in-80 is even more believable. And if you limit it to men with regular tennis experience, or U15 male high school players, they'd get more than a point.

    Of course, the question is easily answerable. Finding guys to go against her would be easy. Television would love to pay for the rights. The fact that we don't know the answer is telling: The is only one person in the way of our knowing.

    Firstly, regarding John McEnroe and his rectal extraction, what else can you do? I’m sure he’d have hundreds of men tennis players and his opinions of their talents, in his head. He probably pictured some guy who just seemed to be at that level, at first thought, and remembered ~ what number the guy was ranked.

    On the 1 in 8, what about double-faults? Even I, who haven’t played a set of tennis in, let’s just say, a long while, might bet on winning a point just due to a double-fault by one of the Williams brothers. I mean, if you can knock back a lob-type serve, maybe just luckily, to a good spot, you can get a point or two. If your opponent knows that he’d feel obligated to hit some harder serves, that would result in a double-fault at some point in 2 sets, wouldn’t it? You wouldn’t even have to be the portion of the 1 in 8 who know they could hit some good shots off her.

  71. @Mr McKenna
    Understood, but is that true? I'd bet most people think their countries are reasonably diverse, given the frame of reference. But India is full of Indians, as far as I'm concerned. Is India anywhere near as diverse as the USA?

    Oh. My. God. You can’t stop with the cringe. At least you seemed to show a little humility and willingness to learn at the end here.

    The US has significant populations of people from almost every populated region on Earth, so no India is obviously less diverse. But the genetic, cultural and linguistic diversity in India exceeds almost everywhere on Earth, which isn’t surprising given its size and population. The most basic diversity comes down to the Aryan vs Dravidian divide. Many Indians are basically white while others have black skin and eyes. I thought this was common knowledge.

  72. Ed Dutton Is A Mad Dog Englishman, And That’s What We Like About Him

    YouTube has screwed around with Ed Dutton’s video about Angela Saini.

    The internet corporations must be busted up and there must be some punitive financial liquidations to get the message out that free speech is not to be screwed with any longer.

  73. @Mr McKenna

    “Smartest country on the planet”
     
    Oddly enough, though, they simply can't tolerate 'difference'.
    So they inflict themselves upon the rest of us.


    https://i.ibb.co/g60ksfG/racial-tolerance-map-hk-fix.jpg

    The color scale on that Washington Post map is not straightforward and where that color should go that labels the 15-19% bin looks goofy. Their graphic seems to be designed to intentionally mislead.

    I wonder if anybody has constructed a shit-hole country index and mapped that?

    Found one but I don’t trust their ranking:

    https://habitablezone.com/2018/01/28/shithole-country-index/

  74. @istevefan

    From rocket science to DNA research, India is ridding itself of its poor country image.
     
    India is not ridding itself of its poor country image. If it were, emigration would dry up, and expats would come home.

    And India could not have rid itself of this poor image if were not for the fact that since 1965, India has imported thousands and thousands of Chinese LEGAL IMMIGRANTS every year, and as a consequence, the vast majority of MDs in India are Chinese and the overwhelming majority of PHDs awarded in Engineering….Computer Science…and Biochemistry in India are awarded to Chinese LEGAL IMMIGRANTS and their India born Chinese children……

    • Replies: @Tony
    Source?
    , @War for Blair Mountain
    There is no source.....because the Hindus and Sihks in India would never tolerate the Chinese colonizing India’s Engineering schools and tech and medical labor markets.........while at the same time, demanding that the HISTORIC NATIVE BORN WHITE AMERICAN WORKING CLASS MAJORITY tolerate the Hindu-Sihk Colonization of America’s Medical Doctor Profession and Engineering Schools...And Engineering and Computer Programming Labor Markets...
  75. @Blithering

    and yet here in the middle of the Western Ghats, in what can reasonably be called nowhere, I descend into a steep valley and find myself in what will soon become one of the most advanced cities on earth
     
    In shāʾ Allāh. Stories like this warm my heart. Let Indians in the West leave in droves to return, populate, work and thrive in their advanced cities in their native land. Please deny us Westerners the brilliance and genius of India. After all, what was the West without the presence of non-Westerners. Let us Westerners descend and return to a neolithic-like-style of living while India, China and Africa ascend to colonize distant planets.

    Wouldn't that be the greatest revenge against all of the West's centuries of injustices and oppression? The rest of the world thrives to new heights while the West rolls around in its mud huts.

    The rest of the world thrives to new heights while the West rolls around in its mud huts.

    I would say that we’ve been rolling around in the mud, metaphorically speaking, anyway, for some time now. Maybe a literal rolling around in mud huts might not be a bad idea. It’ll cut some of us down to size.

  76. @Anon
    OT

    Remember John McEnroe on Serena Williams?:

    In an interview with NPR McEnroe was asked about the greatest tennis players of the sport, and said that while Williams has been dominating women’s tennis since 1999, “if she played the men's circuit she'd be like 700 in the world.”

    “That doesn’t mean I don’t think Serena is an incredible player,” McEnroe continued. “I do, but the reality of what would happen would be I think something that perhaps it’d be a little higher, perhaps it’d be a little lower. And on a given day, Serena could beat some players.”

    While McEnroe isn’t entirely wrong — Williams has said similar things in the past, and in 1998 she played an exhibition match and lost to the 203rd-ranked male player — his observation, especially the 700 number he seems to have pulled out of nowhere, seems unnecessary.
     
    This misrepresents the interview, as did all print reporting on it. He was ambushed with a question and then berated to follow up on his answer by the female interviewer.

    And as I remember the out-of-his-ass 700 ranking was looked at in more detail by a tennis expert who came up with the number 2,000 as being more probable.

    At any rate, the topic has resurfaced:

    Why in the World Do Men Think They Can Beat Serena Williams?
    https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/6/27/15879520/john-mcenroe-serena-williams-greatest-controversy

    The writer is a young black woman who majored in English at Emerson College in Boston.

    According to a poll from YouGov, one in eight men believe they could score a point in a tennis match against Serena Williams. Yes, you read that right. There are men out there who believe they could face off against a Wheaties box–level athlete and not embarrass themselves. How embarrassing!
     
    "And not embarrass themselves." Hold on a seconod. That's not in fact what they believe. What they believe is that they could score 1 point off of her in a match. Which might indeed still be embarassing.

    The poll, which surveyed 1,732 adults in Great Britain, posed a simple question: “Do you think if you were playing your very best tennis, you could win a point off Serena Williams?”

    While the reasonable response would have been “OF COURSE NOT??” from 100 percent of participants, the results revealed a more delusional grasp of reality. Twelve percent of men surveyed responded, “I think I could,” along with 3 percent of women.

    The confidence level of these men is confounding. Even if they were all somehow tennis players with years of experience, along with the athletic prowess and coolheadedness to take on Serena, what makes them think they could pull one over on one of the greatest athletes in the world?

    In addition, 14 percent of men and 10 percent of women responded that they “don’t know” if they could win a point against Williams. How are they unsure? Sorry, but if you’re not sure how you would fair against Serena Williams in a tennis match, you’re lying to yourself.
     
    The question was whether they could score a single point. Given male upper body strength, which out-of-the-box is more than a pumped up woman, and the fact that you get some serves, this seems possible for many men with some tennis experience to add accuracy to their strength.

    Here's some research that says that the gender gap in sports stopped closing 35 years ago:

    Women and Men in Sport Performance: The Gender Gap has not Evolved since 1983
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3761733/

    It's about 10 percent on average, based on ratio-scale measured sports (time taken, weight lifted, etc.). How to apply this to a complexly scored sport like tennis is difficult.

    Another approach is to make assumptions about how many standard deviations from average and athlete is. The top 8th of all men would be about 1.5 SDs over average.

    Where does Serena Williams fall? One complicating factor is that, especially for women, you have to assume that not every girl who might have excelled in the sport took up the sport, did the years-long training, and then became a pro. There are probably many potentially great women tennis players who never played (also because of the countries they were born in, or poverty), and some who played other sports. Sigma six would be one in a billion; sigma five, one in 3 million; sigma four, one in 30 thousand; sigma three, one in 750. Sigma five maybe, but I think you could go to sigma four.

    How far below men's tennis performance is women's tennis performance, in terms of SD? You have the 10 percent difference. You have almost 1 SD difference in average height. Grip strength is about 2 SD different. Remember that a difference of the mean is exagerated at the far right tail. Men being just a little better than women on average in math means almost no women Fields medalists or Nobel physicists.

    My back-of-the-envelope would say that if there is a 3.5 SD gap between the average male and female tennis player, than 1-in-8 men could beat match or beat Serena if she is 5 sigma over female average. (this drops to 2.5 if Serena is 4 sigma.) 3.5 may be larger than reality, but the question was how many men could score "a point" against Serena, not tie or win the match.

    My hunch is that 1-in-8 is maybe not completely crazy, if you throw in some age parameters. The order-of-magnitude smaller 1-in-80 is even more believable. And if you limit it to men with regular tennis experience, or U15 male high school players, they'd get more than a point.

    Of course, the question is easily answerable. Finding guys to go against her would be easy. Television would love to pay for the rights. The fact that we don't know the answer is telling: The is only one person in the way of our knowing.

    For some reason, “getting a point off Serena” has morphed into “mediocre WHITE men” anti-white meme.

    Did they not find any diversity people in in Britain for this “questionnaire”?

    Would be funny to find out that the people who were sure they could were Young Adults or Wise Tribal Leaders.

    ‘Mediocre white men’: Mockery as poll says 12% of men think they could win point off Serena Williams

  77. @Romanian
    Really not safe for work or easily upset stomachs.

    http://www.planetcustodian.com/2015/10/19/8134/over-50-scary-images-depicting-filth-of-varanasi-and-river-ganges-that-went-viral-in-china.html

    It’s not worse than playing Half-Life 2.

    We need more nuclear power to clean up.

  78. India does OK, but they don’t have Jews.

    Jeffrey Epstein on Edge

    http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/07/the-wisdom-of-jeffrey-epsteins-edge-foundation-answers.html

    2005 question — “What do you believe is true even though you cannot prove it?” — Epstein responded with some ontological gibberish that would give Rust Cohle a run for his money.

    The great breakthrough will involve a new understanding of time … that moving through time is not free, and that consciousness itself will be seen to only be a time sensor, adding to the other sensors of light and space.

    Epstein was booked up for the next few years, dealing with an FBI investigation into his predation in 2006, communicating with a legal team that struck plea-deal gold in 2007, and going to prison six days a week beginning in 2008. Still, he was able to answer the 2008 question: “What have you changed your mind about? Why?

    2008 question: “What have you changed your mind about? Why?”

    The question presupposes a well defined “you”, and an implied ability that is under “your” control to change your “mind”. The “you” I now believe is distributed amongst others (family friends, in hierarchical structures,) i.e. suicide bombers, believe their sacrifice is for the other parts of their “you”. The question carries with it an intention that I believe is out of one’s control. My mind changed as a result of its interaction with its environment. Why? because it is a part of it.

    Physicist Paul Davies on what I think Epstein was talking about HERE

    • Replies: @Autochthon
    Say, maybe Epstein was laying the groundwork to be Marianne Williams' running mate, to ensure a pardon from her upon their election. After all, Epstein is all about having the world relate to his beam....
  79. @Mr McKenna

    “Smartest country on the planet”
     
    Oddly enough, though, they simply can't tolerate 'difference'.
    So they inflict themselves upon the rest of us.


    https://i.ibb.co/g60ksfG/racial-tolerance-map-hk-fix.jpg

    Hmmm. Maybe they are the smartest.

    • LOL: Mr McKenna
  80. India is probably the epitome of high iq low trust. Much more so than China IMO.

    • Replies: @DB Cooper
    Average Indian IQ is 76. Not high IQ at all.
    , @Mr McKenna

    India is probably the epitome of high iq low trust. Much more so than China IMO.
     
    No idea how you can say that, given that China's average IQ is roughly twenty points higher than India's. Both are low-trust societies though; no one disputes that. It's our future, and increasingly our present.
  81. The Indian equivalent to Afrofuturism.

  82. @The Wild Geese Howard
    We need more Indian gals who want to spread joy.

    Like Sunny Leone.

    Fear not, DotsNot Feathers; GOP Congresscritters will hook up you guys and your cousins and for the big business douchebags who hate them anyway at the expense of American college and graduate students. A reminder; Mitch McConnell, Kevin McCarthy and the Chamber of Commerce “free trade” quisling morons and their ilk will on the Day of the Rope deserve 2 behind the ear as much as anyone else-

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/07/12/house-gop-vote-indian-outsourcing-threatens-gops-senate-majority/?fbclid=IwAR20mhUogr5sjeXlkGIqCAspS92AGJCFbXpC0kFiE4yYfl1y1ZC8V_o1ZNU

    • Replies: @Hunsdon
    If you are faced by an honest enemy and a traitor, and you have only one bullet, shoot the traitor. If you are faced by an honest enemy and a traitor, and you have two bullets, shoot the traitor twice.
  83. @BenKenobi
    "All these memories will be gone, like poos in a loo."

    The replicants in Ridley Scott’s Blade Runner (1982) were built by Asian engineers and designed by Tyrell, a white man. They were quite effective but dangerous; so a limited lifespan was encoded. In the movie we live in, the future will feature replicants with no lifespan failsafe but will be built by Indian engineers and designed by Afrofuturists. So, no worries.

  84. @eah
    It's like she's in some kind of competition with Saira Rao to be seen as the most obnoxious Indian woman on the internet.

    It seems as if Women of Color are on their way to becoming the dominant political class. Women of White, Beckys and Betsys, should take notice (because they don’t like you).

  85. When are these genius Babu’s going to get to work on sewers and deodorant? And more attractive women?

  86. @Romanian
    Really not safe for work or easily upset stomachs.

    http://www.planetcustodian.com/2015/10/19/8134/over-50-scary-images-depicting-filth-of-varanasi-and-river-ganges-that-went-viral-in-china.html

    Christ! You weren’t kidding! I’d hate to see what their unholy rivers look like.

    • LOL: Gordo
  87. @istevefan

    From rocket science to DNA research, India is ridding itself of its poor country image.
     
    India is not ridding itself of its poor country image. If it were, emigration would dry up, and expats would come home.

    I think Saini is saying the new Indian machines will be the “smartest on the planet.” The people, not so much.

    • Replies: @Mr. XYZ
    To build machines, though, you actually need some brains.
  88. I hear that Lavasa is a sister city with Wakanda.

    Honestly, India really does have a smarter fraction and when you apply that fraction against 1.3 billion people you come up with a substantial # of people – they probably have as many 100+ IQ people as we do. The problem is that they get dragged down by the other billion+ of riff-raff.

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    Honestly, India really does have a smarter fraction and when you apply that fraction against 1.3 billion people you come up with a substantial # of people – they probably have as many 100+ IQ people as we do.
     
    Should we be admitting that smart fraction into our universities and job market and giving them American citizenship?
    , @Haruto Rat
    Chinese are shorter on average but still can field a decent basketball team because there are so many to choose from.

    Now, it's easy to select for basketball, not so easy for problem solving and managing things. It's all about selection mechanisms.
    , @International Jew
    Emigrating to America is an elegant solution to their problem.
    , @Spangel
    Do they really drag them down though? Seems like the smart fraction does fine for themselves and carries on indifferently to all the impoverished masses.

    South Asians are not like blacks. It’s been said here that Africans can’t do things like put up power generators and power lines because there are always fewer willing to do the work than those who will tear the wires down.

    Indians don’t appear to be like that. The masses aren’t reckless and destructive in the way blacks are. If we for some reason imported millions of completely average intelligence Indians (iq 87 or whatever it may be), I suspect they would soon fare much better than American blacks. I’d be massively surprised if they had a similar propensity for violence and they would probably maintain a lower rate of illigitimacy for many generations to come. They probably wouldn’t squander their earnings on bling or live permanently paycheck to paycheck.

    Indians have a dysfunctional society seemingly because they don’t care about people outside their endogenous group and have a limited concept of civic mindedness. But those who make something of themselves don’t seem constantly undermined by those who don’t.
  89. Anonymous[156] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D
    I hear that Lavasa is a sister city with Wakanda.

    Honestly, India really does have a smarter fraction and when you apply that fraction against 1.3 billion people you come up with a substantial # of people - they probably have as many 100+ IQ people as we do. The problem is that they get dragged down by the other billion+ of riff-raff.

    Honestly, India really does have a smarter fraction and when you apply that fraction against 1.3 billion people you come up with a substantial # of people – they probably have as many 100+ IQ people as we do.

    Should we be admitting that smart fraction into our universities and job market and giving them American citizenship?

  90. @Anon
    OT

    Remember John McEnroe on Serena Williams?:

    In an interview with NPR McEnroe was asked about the greatest tennis players of the sport, and said that while Williams has been dominating women’s tennis since 1999, “if she played the men's circuit she'd be like 700 in the world.”

    “That doesn’t mean I don’t think Serena is an incredible player,” McEnroe continued. “I do, but the reality of what would happen would be I think something that perhaps it’d be a little higher, perhaps it’d be a little lower. And on a given day, Serena could beat some players.”

    While McEnroe isn’t entirely wrong — Williams has said similar things in the past, and in 1998 she played an exhibition match and lost to the 203rd-ranked male player — his observation, especially the 700 number he seems to have pulled out of nowhere, seems unnecessary.
     
    This misrepresents the interview, as did all print reporting on it. He was ambushed with a question and then berated to follow up on his answer by the female interviewer.

    And as I remember the out-of-his-ass 700 ranking was looked at in more detail by a tennis expert who came up with the number 2,000 as being more probable.

    At any rate, the topic has resurfaced:

    Why in the World Do Men Think They Can Beat Serena Williams?
    https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/6/27/15879520/john-mcenroe-serena-williams-greatest-controversy

    The writer is a young black woman who majored in English at Emerson College in Boston.

    According to a poll from YouGov, one in eight men believe they could score a point in a tennis match against Serena Williams. Yes, you read that right. There are men out there who believe they could face off against a Wheaties box–level athlete and not embarrass themselves. How embarrassing!
     
    "And not embarrass themselves." Hold on a seconod. That's not in fact what they believe. What they believe is that they could score 1 point off of her in a match. Which might indeed still be embarassing.

    The poll, which surveyed 1,732 adults in Great Britain, posed a simple question: “Do you think if you were playing your very best tennis, you could win a point off Serena Williams?”

    While the reasonable response would have been “OF COURSE NOT??” from 100 percent of participants, the results revealed a more delusional grasp of reality. Twelve percent of men surveyed responded, “I think I could,” along with 3 percent of women.

    The confidence level of these men is confounding. Even if they were all somehow tennis players with years of experience, along with the athletic prowess and coolheadedness to take on Serena, what makes them think they could pull one over on one of the greatest athletes in the world?

    In addition, 14 percent of men and 10 percent of women responded that they “don’t know” if they could win a point against Williams. How are they unsure? Sorry, but if you’re not sure how you would fair against Serena Williams in a tennis match, you’re lying to yourself.
     
    The question was whether they could score a single point. Given male upper body strength, which out-of-the-box is more than a pumped up woman, and the fact that you get some serves, this seems possible for many men with some tennis experience to add accuracy to their strength.

    Here's some research that says that the gender gap in sports stopped closing 35 years ago:

    Women and Men in Sport Performance: The Gender Gap has not Evolved since 1983
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3761733/

    It's about 10 percent on average, based on ratio-scale measured sports (time taken, weight lifted, etc.). How to apply this to a complexly scored sport like tennis is difficult.

    Another approach is to make assumptions about how many standard deviations from average and athlete is. The top 8th of all men would be about 1.5 SDs over average.

    Where does Serena Williams fall? One complicating factor is that, especially for women, you have to assume that not every girl who might have excelled in the sport took up the sport, did the years-long training, and then became a pro. There are probably many potentially great women tennis players who never played (also because of the countries they were born in, or poverty), and some who played other sports. Sigma six would be one in a billion; sigma five, one in 3 million; sigma four, one in 30 thousand; sigma three, one in 750. Sigma five maybe, but I think you could go to sigma four.

    How far below men's tennis performance is women's tennis performance, in terms of SD? You have the 10 percent difference. You have almost 1 SD difference in average height. Grip strength is about 2 SD different. Remember that a difference of the mean is exagerated at the far right tail. Men being just a little better than women on average in math means almost no women Fields medalists or Nobel physicists.

    My back-of-the-envelope would say that if there is a 3.5 SD gap between the average male and female tennis player, than 1-in-8 men could beat match or beat Serena if she is 5 sigma over female average. (this drops to 2.5 if Serena is 4 sigma.) 3.5 may be larger than reality, but the question was how many men could score "a point" against Serena, not tie or win the match.

    My hunch is that 1-in-8 is maybe not completely crazy, if you throw in some age parameters. The order-of-magnitude smaller 1-in-80 is even more believable. And if you limit it to men with regular tennis experience, or U15 male high school players, they'd get more than a point.

    Of course, the question is easily answerable. Finding guys to go against her would be easy. Television would love to pay for the rights. The fact that we don't know the answer is telling: The is only one person in the way of our knowing.

    I would rather meet Ser Gregor Clegane in a dark dank back alley than Serina Williams.

  91. @HenryA
    I hear that pretty soon in the "Smartest country on the planet"" they're going to get started on indoor plumbing and sewers.

    Progress at last: 599 million people shitting in the street as opposed to 600 million people.

    • Replies: @indocon
    This shitting in street phenomena has a very interesting link with the the castesim perpetuated by Angela and Suketu's forefathers. Remember Indus Valley Civilization people had toilets in their homes 2500 years back!!

    What came after this civilization was the formation of modern pagan religion based civilization we call Hinduism, these people instituted the modern cast system, one of the core tenants of this cast system is to really humiliate and ostracize people at the bottom, overtime my guess is that these people just lost their humanity and started acting like animals, including shitting in streets.

    Pick your spot out on the street pilgrims, you will be next after you loose your mind getting ruled by Angela and Suketu and Neera and Hume and .....

    I am going to next look at David Reich's amazing XYZ table of India DNA to pinpoint where all these sub-continental grifters are on.
  92. @Jack D
    I hear that Lavasa is a sister city with Wakanda.

    Honestly, India really does have a smarter fraction and when you apply that fraction against 1.3 billion people you come up with a substantial # of people - they probably have as many 100+ IQ people as we do. The problem is that they get dragged down by the other billion+ of riff-raff.

    Chinese are shorter on average but still can field a decent basketball team because there are so many to choose from.

    Now, it’s easy to select for basketball, not so easy for problem solving and managing things. It’s all about selection mechanisms.

  93. It’s OK to be Kshatriya.

  94. Then why is she and millions of her fellow Indians living in the West?

  95. So Saini is an Indian Supremacist.

    It seems that our melting pot is instead an entrenchment of hardboiled supremacist groups all trying to shill their own group’s supremacy without saying so, which is accomplished by projecting their own supremacisms onto the legacy white majority.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    Well put. Furthermore, I dare say we'd be fine with a little natural chauvenism, were it recognized as a disgusting little impulse like lust, and not ennobled through hypocritical moralistic utopianism with us as the only accepted target.
    , @indocon
    Remember, Angela's forefathers created a society where they convinced 80% of the population to take a lower slot on society's pecking order, without firing a single shot. As a result they took a society that was the most advanced at that time (remember they had toilets in their homes circa 2500BC) to today's mess. But they don't care, because they are at top.

    Nope they are doing it right in-front of your eyers right here. Question is....what will you all do.
    , @Moses
    Great comment
  96. @Anonymous
    If you exclude programming, which is another kettle of fish entirely, the question really is why has India, and indeed the rest of the subcontinent, had such pitiably poor impact on the consumer and industrial electronics and engineering industries?

    The vast majority of Indians in the US , the so called best and brightest suck in programming.

  97. Angela Saini is a typical Indian, a blowhard. Even though there is really nothing to boast about.

  98. the Western Ghats

    Are those the critters that hover around my porch light?

  99. @Jack D
    I hear that Lavasa is a sister city with Wakanda.

    Honestly, India really does have a smarter fraction and when you apply that fraction against 1.3 billion people you come up with a substantial # of people - they probably have as many 100+ IQ people as we do. The problem is that they get dragged down by the other billion+ of riff-raff.

    Emigrating to America is an elegant solution to their problem.

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    Emigrating to America is an elegant solution to their problem.
     
    Should America allow this?
    , @stillCARealist
    They really are making exactly this experiment. Untold numbers are attending Indian medical schools with no intention of ever practicing in India. They go through the tech and engineering schools so that they can get jobs in the West, not India. Their lower castes can't do any of this so they expect to have a nice upper caste colony in every western nation that will dominate its particular field.

    What we should be looking at is how these colonies have fared in other countries where this experiment has already been run. Didn't they do this in South Africa? How has that worked out? What about other parts of South Asia, has that been examined?
  100. Anonymous[156] • Disclaimer says:
    @International Jew
    Emigrating to America is an elegant solution to their problem.

    Emigrating to America is an elegant solution to their problem.

    Should America allow this?

    • Replies: @istevefan
    No. They need their top talent at home to help them develop.

    Years from now your grandkids will be hectored for their country having taken India's top human resources and leaving India in shambles.

  101. @hhsiii
    When I was 14 and went to Welby Van Horn tennis camp for a week, took weekly lessons and was maybe 5th on the ladder for my age group at the local country club, I’m pretty sure I could have scored one point against her in a 2 set match. Not a game. A point. I would just have whaled every serve, even second servs, as hard as I could.

    The best adult makes in town could have played her fairly well. There’s no doubt in my mind that way more than the top 700 men could beat her.

    You’d score that point when she made an unforced error. She makes unforced errors several times in a match.

    But that won’t apply when she’s playing you. In a tournament match she’s playing strong players so she takes chances, like aiming within just a foot of a foul line or a yard of the baseline. Whereas against you, she wouldn’t take such chances; she could blow you away just hitting hard ground strokes into the center of your court. Likewise, she’d never double fault against you because she could ace you with second-serve speed and placement.

    So my guess is, you wouldn’t get even one point.

  102. If Lavasa City is India’s future, it’s not looking bright.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/wap.business-standard.com/article-amp/current-affairs/how-the-unfinished-city-of-lavasa-became-a-nightmare-for-indian-banks-118061900095_1.html

    It might have been a good idea to start. But like most good ideas in India, it was strangled by bureaucracy and incompetence. It’s pretty much a case study in why the Third World can’t have “nice things.”

    You’d think the Guardian could do a simple Google search before hyping Lavasa City. But I guess being Fake News means you don’t have to waste time checking facts and stuff.

    • Agree: PiltdownMan
    • Replies: @indocon
    In practically every Indian city with more than ~>200k population, you will find an area called "Civil Lines", it was where land development happened during the British Raj, primarily for bureaucrats who ran the state . To this date, that area will command highest real estate valuation in those towns, goes to show how magic dirt can be created.
  103. @bucky
    India is probably the epitome of high iq low trust. Much more so than China IMO.

    Average Indian IQ is 76. Not high IQ at all.

    • Replies: @bucky
    Honestly, every encounter I have with Indians leaves me impressed with their intelligence, and also kind of shocked at their lack of ethics or morality. The Chinese don't come across as smart or as wicked as the Indians. ALso, Indians tend to rise faster in corporate hierarchies than Chinese -- Google and Microsoft are led by Indians at this point.

    yeah, maybe it is self-selected, but I don't get where this meme of Indians being low-IQ comes from. Chinese are just as self-selected.
  104. @Mr McKenna
    Understood, but is that true? I'd bet most people think their countries are reasonably diverse, given the frame of reference. But India is full of Indians, as far as I'm concerned. Is India anywhere near as diverse as the USA?

    You haven’t read the Flashman papers, have you?

    • Replies: @Hunsdon
    Everyone should read the Flashman papers.
  105. @IndianSupremacism
    So Saini is an Indian Supremacist.

    It seems that our melting pot is instead an entrenchment of hardboiled supremacist groups all trying to shill their own group's supremacy without saying so, which is accomplished by projecting their own supremacisms onto the legacy white majority.

    Well put. Furthermore, I dare say we’d be fine with a little natural chauvenism, were it recognized as a disgusting little impulse like lust, and not ennobled through hypocritical moralistic utopianism with us as the only accepted target.

  106. @istevefan

    From rocket science to DNA research, India is ridding itself of its poor country image.
     
    India is not ridding itself of its poor country image. If it were, emigration would dry up, and expats would come home.

    No no, don’t you see? India will rid itself of its poor country image by exporting half of its population to rich countries, thereby making them poor. Victory by default!

  107. @Anonymous

    Emigrating to America is an elegant solution to their problem.
     
    Should America allow this?

    No. They need their top talent at home to help them develop.

    Years from now your grandkids will be hectored for their country having taken India’s top human resources and leaving India in shambles.

  108. Anonymous[388] • Disclaimer says:

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-britain-police/uk-police-warning-to-media-over-diplomats-leaked-memos-stirs-anger-idUSKCN1U80AO

    UK police warning to media over diplomat’s leaked memos stirs anger

    Britain’s most senior counter-terrorism officer, Neil Basu, said on Friday police would investigate who was responsible but also warned journalists and publishers they too could be in breach of the law if further documents were leaked.

    Western Oriented Gentleman

  109. @Mr McKenna
    Shouldn't "The Smartest Country on the Planet" at least be one of the smartest countries on the planet? Or is this some sort of Indian Logic lost upon the rest of us? Near as I can tell, not only is India not smart, it's actually quite stupid, with an average IQ of just over 80. So Indians are about as stupid as American Negroes, which we really don't need more of. For fun, look up "Declining IQ" on Google. You'll get a hundred 'prestige media' explanations of how yes, IQ may be in decline, but it's purely environmental in cause. It's not even because people in stupid countries (and their progeny in the West) are having more kids than smart people are. Nope, none of that. It's because of things like Global Warming. Seriously.

    Yes, but that’s with malnutrition. American Negroids have had first world nutrition and facilities for a while. You could do the same with them and it would be much higher

  110. @Hypnotoad666
    I think Saini is saying the new Indian machines will be the "smartest on the planet." The people, not so much.

    To build machines, though, you actually need some brains.

  111. @International Jew
    Emigrating to America is an elegant solution to their problem.

    They really are making exactly this experiment. Untold numbers are attending Indian medical schools with no intention of ever practicing in India. They go through the tech and engineering schools so that they can get jobs in the West, not India. Their lower castes can’t do any of this so they expect to have a nice upper caste colony in every western nation that will dominate its particular field.

    What we should be looking at is how these colonies have fared in other countries where this experiment has already been run. Didn’t they do this in South Africa? How has that worked out? What about other parts of South Asia, has that been examined?

  112. @Mr McKenna

    “Smartest country on the planet”
     
    Oddly enough, though, they simply can't tolerate 'difference'.
    So they inflict themselves upon the rest of us.


    https://i.ibb.co/g60ksfG/racial-tolerance-map-hk-fix.jpg

    lol israel and india. You can’t make this stuff up, folks!

    • Replies: @International Jew
    That's Jordan, not Israel.
  113. @Anon
    OT

    Remember John McEnroe on Serena Williams?:

    In an interview with NPR McEnroe was asked about the greatest tennis players of the sport, and said that while Williams has been dominating women’s tennis since 1999, “if she played the men's circuit she'd be like 700 in the world.”

    “That doesn’t mean I don’t think Serena is an incredible player,” McEnroe continued. “I do, but the reality of what would happen would be I think something that perhaps it’d be a little higher, perhaps it’d be a little lower. And on a given day, Serena could beat some players.”

    While McEnroe isn’t entirely wrong — Williams has said similar things in the past, and in 1998 she played an exhibition match and lost to the 203rd-ranked male player — his observation, especially the 700 number he seems to have pulled out of nowhere, seems unnecessary.
     
    This misrepresents the interview, as did all print reporting on it. He was ambushed with a question and then berated to follow up on his answer by the female interviewer.

    And as I remember the out-of-his-ass 700 ranking was looked at in more detail by a tennis expert who came up with the number 2,000 as being more probable.

    At any rate, the topic has resurfaced:

    Why in the World Do Men Think They Can Beat Serena Williams?
    https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/6/27/15879520/john-mcenroe-serena-williams-greatest-controversy

    The writer is a young black woman who majored in English at Emerson College in Boston.

    According to a poll from YouGov, one in eight men believe they could score a point in a tennis match against Serena Williams. Yes, you read that right. There are men out there who believe they could face off against a Wheaties box–level athlete and not embarrass themselves. How embarrassing!
     
    "And not embarrass themselves." Hold on a seconod. That's not in fact what they believe. What they believe is that they could score 1 point off of her in a match. Which might indeed still be embarassing.

    The poll, which surveyed 1,732 adults in Great Britain, posed a simple question: “Do you think if you were playing your very best tennis, you could win a point off Serena Williams?”

    While the reasonable response would have been “OF COURSE NOT??” from 100 percent of participants, the results revealed a more delusional grasp of reality. Twelve percent of men surveyed responded, “I think I could,” along with 3 percent of women.

    The confidence level of these men is confounding. Even if they were all somehow tennis players with years of experience, along with the athletic prowess and coolheadedness to take on Serena, what makes them think they could pull one over on one of the greatest athletes in the world?

    In addition, 14 percent of men and 10 percent of women responded that they “don’t know” if they could win a point against Williams. How are they unsure? Sorry, but if you’re not sure how you would fair against Serena Williams in a tennis match, you’re lying to yourself.
     
    The question was whether they could score a single point. Given male upper body strength, which out-of-the-box is more than a pumped up woman, and the fact that you get some serves, this seems possible for many men with some tennis experience to add accuracy to their strength.

    Here's some research that says that the gender gap in sports stopped closing 35 years ago:

    Women and Men in Sport Performance: The Gender Gap has not Evolved since 1983
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3761733/

    It's about 10 percent on average, based on ratio-scale measured sports (time taken, weight lifted, etc.). How to apply this to a complexly scored sport like tennis is difficult.

    Another approach is to make assumptions about how many standard deviations from average and athlete is. The top 8th of all men would be about 1.5 SDs over average.

    Where does Serena Williams fall? One complicating factor is that, especially for women, you have to assume that not every girl who might have excelled in the sport took up the sport, did the years-long training, and then became a pro. There are probably many potentially great women tennis players who never played (also because of the countries they were born in, or poverty), and some who played other sports. Sigma six would be one in a billion; sigma five, one in 3 million; sigma four, one in 30 thousand; sigma three, one in 750. Sigma five maybe, but I think you could go to sigma four.

    How far below men's tennis performance is women's tennis performance, in terms of SD? You have the 10 percent difference. You have almost 1 SD difference in average height. Grip strength is about 2 SD different. Remember that a difference of the mean is exagerated at the far right tail. Men being just a little better than women on average in math means almost no women Fields medalists or Nobel physicists.

    My back-of-the-envelope would say that if there is a 3.5 SD gap between the average male and female tennis player, than 1-in-8 men could beat match or beat Serena if she is 5 sigma over female average. (this drops to 2.5 if Serena is 4 sigma.) 3.5 may be larger than reality, but the question was how many men could score "a point" against Serena, not tie or win the match.

    My hunch is that 1-in-8 is maybe not completely crazy, if you throw in some age parameters. The order-of-magnitude smaller 1-in-80 is even more believable. And if you limit it to men with regular tennis experience, or U15 male high school players, they'd get more than a point.

    Of course, the question is easily answerable. Finding guys to go against her would be easy. Television would love to pay for the rights. The fact that we don't know the answer is telling: The is only one person in the way of our knowing.

    As far as I’m concerned, only those who have played competitive tennis at a fairly high level (USTA 4.5 and above) are competent to comment on this and, judging from the comments so far, no respondents fit that bill.

    First question for you hackers: just where and when are you going to get your point(s)?

    Not off her serve. I’ve seen her practice close up and all she has to do is throw in kick second serves and that takes out any player probably below a 5.0. Unless you’ve faced one, you have no idea how hard it is even to get clean contact on a high bouncing 85mph+ serve. And she could do that in her sleep.

    How about your serves? Here’s the only chance any hacker would have. But she’d have to trip or stumble not to make minced meat of any club player’s serve— to say nothing of hackers who can’t put 4 shots in a row in court.

    But of course McEnroe is right and Karsten Braasch proved it. Even so, women pros are real good and can hang on doubles courts with touring pros— they do it all the time.

    My suggestion: go to a top tournament where both men and women play. Besides a great time and an eye opening display of talent, you’ll get to appreciate the wonderful sport and see how much better the touring pros are from your club pros ( unless you’re lucky like some of us to have one for a club pro) or anyone else you’ve ever seen.

  114. @216
    Nuclear Weapons

    Nuclear Submarines

    Soon a Nuclear Aircraft Carrier

    And yet they still whine about the British, and still demand the right to revenge-colonize the West.

    demand the right to revenge-colonize the West.

    Frightened pakeha are hilarious. “Colonise”? I don’t watch a lot of TV news or current affairs, but I flatter myself that I keep abreast of the big-ticket geopolitical shifts, and yet I missed all the footage of dot-head military victories over the Anglosphere.

    Such dotheads as we have roaming around, are private individuals who are in our midst as a result of private decisions, pursuing their best interests. For the most part they are in our midst in compliance with such rules as your political overlords have established[1].

    The best way to point out how infantile your febrile catastrophising looks from the outside, is by contrast.

    The US invasion of Hawaii: that was a colonisation.
    The US invasion of the Philippines: that was an attempt at colonisation.
    The English invasion of India: colonisation.

    You get the drift: government-sponsored action, usually involving the use of government military and widespread death of dissenting civilians in the target locale. Then, a government-sponsored flood of immigrants from the colonising locale, and the imposition of colonial institutions that work to the advantage of some clique in the colonising locale.

    None of those essential characteristics is present when Sanjay gets his H1B and arrives in the US to write insecure, non-performance code for 45% less than a decent coder.

    If Sanjay’s rapport qualité-prix enables him to compete, Sanjay builds himself a reasonable life. If not, he becomes an Uber driver or works at a 7-11.

    The only people who bleat about the browning of ‘X’ (X being whichever Western former-coloniser is now absorbing the descendants of their victims), are the people who can’t out-compete Sanjay.

    And yet, they almost uniformly assert that Sanjay is cognitively inferior to the median indigene.

    As someone to whom Sanjay is no competitive threat, and who rightly does not give much of a fuck about anyone outside my immediate circle-of-really-giving-a-fuck (~10-20 people, globally), I kind of enjoy having him around – taxi fares are way lower, there’s a good range of ethnic food, and guys in my field can turn a decent dollar on the side, remediating the shitful code that Sanjay produced before the firm’s client database got posted to pastebin and Sanjay was “right sized” the fuck outta there.

    [1] Any political overlords we might share are yours, not mine. I do not have political overlords: their pronouncements are meaningless to me, and if they attempt to coerce me to comply with an edict, I either refuse, or I do damage to government-owned shit until I obtain as much satisfaction to offset the dissatisfaction engendered by complying (with a premium in dollar terms, because utility functions are concave).

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    The English invasion of India: colonisation.
     
    That was carried out by private individuals who happened to be British (plus a lot of local collaborators). The British government role was minimal before 1857.

    The proper parallel would be if private Indian businessmen took control of the U.S. economy, and when the Americans tried to kick them out, the Indian government sent an army to America to protect them and their property.
    , @Anonymous
    Yeah, right.

    Please try to lecture the Modi government about why India has built a formidable physical barrier - including armed guards - to separate it from Bangladesh. Oh, and the guards shoot to kill - which they do often.

    All poor Amina from Bangladesh wanted to do was enter India so she could work as a housemaid for a rich Hindu family, thereby making life that bit easier for privileged Indians, and as The Economist keeps badgering us, improving Indian GDP, not to mention the 'cultural' benefits she would bring in her wake. Indeed, prior to those nasty Brits quitting India in 1947, poor Amina was a fully paid up fellow India, just like the Chakrabarties.

    But, alas, that didn't stop the Indian border guards - big, strong men - gunning her down like a dog as she clung to the fence wire of the border.
    , @orionyx
    You misuse the word 'colonize'. Britain never colonized India, nor any place in South Africa except South Africa, with minute colonies in Rhodesia and Kenya, nor any other places except in North America, Australia and New Zealand. They did rule much of Africa, as well as the Indian sub-continent; and in many cases their rule was a lot better than that of those they displaced.
    , @Logan
    The US invasion of the Philippines: that was an attempt at colonisation.

    Not really. It was an entirely successful invasion and conquest. Which was then followed by an entirely voluntary plan for granting it freedom. The US never really had any intent to maintain permanent occupation.

  115. @Jus' Sayin'...

    "...how you would fair..."
     
    I know how I'd fare in a writing match against "a young black woman who majored in English at Emerson College in Boston"

    When Don Imus got fired by MSNBC, a man who described himself as (1) a black man and (2) an editor for MSNBC.com wrote an article in which he expressed dismay that Imus had not previously been “reigned in” by the network.

    I mean, I don’t think Imus should have been fired for that ad lib faux pas, but I wouldn’t have made him king, either.

    Funny how these little things stick in the memory bank.

  116. Anon[118] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ian Smith
    https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/the-gandhi-nobody-knows/

    It should be plain by now that there is much in the Hindu culture that is distasteful to the Western mind, and consequently is largely unknown in the West—not because Hindus do not go on and on about these subjects, but because a Western squeamishness usually prevents these preoccupations from reaching print (not to mention film). When Gandhi attended his first Indian National Congress he was most distressed at seeing the Hindus—not laborers but high-caste Hindus, civic leaders—defecating all over the place, as if to pay attention to where the feces fell was somehow unclean. (For, as V.S. Naipaul puts it, in a twisted Hindu way it is unclean to clean. It is unclean even to notice. “It was the business of the sweepers to remove excrement, and until the sweepers came, people were content to live in the midst of their own excrement.”) Gandhi exhorted Indians endlessly on the subject, saying that sanitation was the first need of India, but he retained an obvious obsession with excreta, gleefully designing latrines and latrine drills for all hands at the ashram, and, all in all, what with giving and taking enemas, and his public bowel movements, and his deep concern with everyone else’s bowel movements (much correspondence), and endless dietary experiments as a function of bowel movements, he devoted a rather large share of his life to the matter. Despite his constant campaigning for sanitation, it is hard to believe that Gandhi was not permanently marked by what Arthur Koestler terms the Hindu “morbid infatuation with filth,” and what V.S. Naipaul goes as far as to call the Indian “deification of filth.” (Decades later, Krishna Menon, a Gandhian and one-time Indian Defense Minister, was still fortifying his sanctity by drinking a daily glass of urine.)

    Easy to mock, since it’s a foreign culture. “It is unclean to clean” sounds like a nicely succinct expression of “nobility” world wide. Isn’t that why servants are needed? Weren’t Victorian children ashamed of parents whose money was made in any kind of trade, esp. enema equipment or suchlike?
    Didn’t European kings eschew literacy? Wasn’t bathing considered unhealthy? Didn’t Versailles contain no bathrooms or privies, being nasty, so courtiers relieved themselves in the stairways?

  117. @Jus' Sayin'...
    India's nuclear submarines are rebuilds of Soviet hand-me-downs. And while there are some smart Indians, there evidently aren't enough to go around so that India can man these submarines with a competent crew, e.g. a crew all of whom are aware that all hatches should be shut before submerging. https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/whoops-indias-navy-left-nearly-sunk-its-own-3-billion-nuclear-submarine-66211

    I worked off and on in various positions requiring technical competence for over thirty years. During that time I never met one Indian or Pakistani who really impressed me with his technical capabilities. In fact I was often appalled at how ignorant, devoid of creativity, and just plain dumb many of the Indian and Pakistani H-1b programmers and engineers were, whom I ran across during my career. However, they were unusually good at kissing superiors' asses and mistreating subordinates.

    Except India built its own nuclear weapons.

  118. @Bugg
    Fear not, DotsNot Feathers; GOP Congresscritters will hook up you guys and your cousins and for the big business douchebags who hate them anyway at the expense of American college and graduate students. A reminder; Mitch McConnell, Kevin McCarthy and the Chamber of Commerce "free trade" quisling morons and their ilk will on the Day of the Rope deserve 2 behind the ear as much as anyone else-

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/07/12/house-gop-vote-indian-outsourcing-threatens-gops-senate-majority/?fbclid=IwAR20mhUogr5sjeXlkGIqCAspS92AGJCFbXpC0kFiE4yYfl1y1ZC8V_o1ZNU

    If you are faced by an honest enemy and a traitor, and you have only one bullet, shoot the traitor. If you are faced by an honest enemy and a traitor, and you have two bullets, shoot the traitor twice.

    • Replies: @Romanian
    Are there any honest enemies left? We live in an age of deception.
  119. @Logan
    India is far more diverse than the USA, or indeed almost any country.

    Thousands of castes that have intermarried for many centuries,

    More than 100 major languages.

    Widely diverse physiognomy.

    Many, many different religions. Even Hinduism is more accurately described as a grouping of many religions than as a single faith.

    It should not be necessary to point that India's diversity has not been its strength.

    India is far more diverse than the USA, or indeed almost any country.

    At the risk of pointing out the obvious, to an observer from the far side of the globe, all of these different people from different castes will still easily be recognized as “Indian” people. Not so the USA: easily half of the people in our country would not, on sight alone, easily be recognized as American by someone from the far side of the globe (or even nearby). Surely this is a significant distinction.

    • Replies: @Logan
    Quite right. Which of course takes us straight back to what we mean by "diverse."

    Recently read a whole collection of newspaper articles, transcripts, etc. Original sources involving the sinking of the Titanic.

    One of its most interesting aspects was the unexamined assumption among Brits and Americans, and I guess probably Canadians, that they were all "us," whereas other groups (Irish, French, Poles, Russians, Italians, even a Japanese) were all "them."

    Your point is of course well taken if we assume that immediate visual differentiation is the only, or at least the most important, aspect of "diversity."

    I'm not sure why that should assumed to be true.
    , @Reg Cæsar

    At the risk of pointing out the obvious, to an observer from the far side of the globe, all of these different people from different castes will still easily be recognized as “Indian” people.

     

    That they all look the same doesn't mean they all think the same or act the same. The differences will be readily apparent to the locals. Just like all the different breads turn the same brown after a period in the oven, everyone toasts alike in the hot subcontinental sun.

    Most Americans couldn't tell a Japanese face from a Chinese one, but at nine years old with less than a year in Honolulu, this haole got to be quite adept at it. In contrast, their facial expressions and behavior drifted toward the local variety of the American mean.

    The Democratic Party looks wildly diverse on the surface, as does the average large university faculty. But these clumps of protoplasm tend to only two or three allied schools of thought-- the race hustler, the guilty white, the cynical white.
  120. @Reg Cæsar
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Indian_castes

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Ethnic_groups_in_India

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_number_of_native_speakers_in_India


    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Brahmin_communities

    No one denies that there are various castes within India.
    See my response to Logan just above though.

    • Replies: @jim jones
    When I asked the Indian chap who lives in my street about the caste system he denied that it existed.
  121. @bucky
    India is probably the epitome of high iq low trust. Much more so than China IMO.

    India is probably the epitome of high iq low trust. Much more so than China IMO.

    No idea how you can say that, given that China’s average IQ is roughly twenty points higher than India’s. Both are low-trust societies though; no one disputes that. It’s our future, and increasingly our present.

  122. Soon, Kali-ma will rule the world.

  123. @Reg Cæsar
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Indian_castes

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Ethnic_groups_in_India

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_number_of_native_speakers_in_India


    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Brahmin_communities

    Too bad they all look like different shades of brown to me. They need some skilled immigrants from the land of Kung Pao chicken, who can then take them to even greater heights (perhaps Mumbai will become the next Shanghai??) by fixing their massive indoor plumbing issues not to mention drive the next AI rev in India!!

    They need some virile Africans who can win medals for them in the olympics. And spawn some beautiful mixed race babies who can then go on to win even more medals!!

    A win win

    • Replies: @orionyx
    No, black African mixed with Indian usually produces a mixture that has the worst qualities of both parents.
  124. @Jack D
    I hear that Lavasa is a sister city with Wakanda.

    Honestly, India really does have a smarter fraction and when you apply that fraction against 1.3 billion people you come up with a substantial # of people - they probably have as many 100+ IQ people as we do. The problem is that they get dragged down by the other billion+ of riff-raff.

    Do they really drag them down though? Seems like the smart fraction does fine for themselves and carries on indifferently to all the impoverished masses.

    South Asians are not like blacks. It’s been said here that Africans can’t do things like put up power generators and power lines because there are always fewer willing to do the work than those who will tear the wires down.

    Indians don’t appear to be like that. The masses aren’t reckless and destructive in the way blacks are. If we for some reason imported millions of completely average intelligence Indians (iq 87 or whatever it may be), I suspect they would soon fare much better than American blacks. I’d be massively surprised if they had a similar propensity for violence and they would probably maintain a lower rate of illigitimacy for many generations to come. They probably wouldn’t squander their earnings on bling or live permanently paycheck to paycheck.

    Indians have a dysfunctional society seemingly because they don’t care about people outside their endogenous group and have a limited concept of civic mindedness. But those who make something of themselves don’t seem constantly undermined by those who don’t.

    • Replies: @DB Cooper
    Seems like you don't know much about Indians. First off average Indians IQ is 76, not 87. And Indians are totally destructive. This year India launched a so called 'high speed' train. The train was vandalized the first week of its operation. Such destructive behavior are just typical Indians. That's why the country is a shithole.
  125. Anonymous[354] • Disclaimer says:

    “Racist” is beyond denotative meaning at this point; the more apt term for Saini is “chauvinist.”

  126. @Hypnotoad666
    If Lavasa City is India's future, it's not looking bright.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/wap.business-standard.com/article-amp/current-affairs/how-the-unfinished-city-of-lavasa-became-a-nightmare-for-indian-banks-118061900095_1.html

    It might have been a good idea to start. But like most good ideas in India, it was strangled by bureaucracy and incompetence. It's pretty much a case study in why the Third World can't have "nice things."

    You'd think the Guardian could do a simple Google search before hyping Lavasa City. But I guess being Fake News means you don't have to waste time checking facts and stuff.

    In practically every Indian city with more than ~>200k population, you will find an area called “Civil Lines”, it was where land development happened during the British Raj, primarily for bureaucrats who ran the state . To this date, that area will command highest real estate valuation in those towns, goes to show how magic dirt can be created.

  127. @Anonymous
    Lavasa's Wikipedia page would seem to indicate that little progress has been made. Also, the city "is stylistically based on the Italian town Portofino, with a street and several buildings bearing the name of that town."

    Given that Indians have thousands of years worth of architectural heritage to draw upon(some of it pretty spectacular), you'd think they woudn't need to ape the Italians.

    Hindu Indians can certainly claim to several architectural masterpiece, mainly temples and palaces, but not a single whole city as example of their prowess to organize society.

  128. @IndianSupremacism
    So Saini is an Indian Supremacist.

    It seems that our melting pot is instead an entrenchment of hardboiled supremacist groups all trying to shill their own group's supremacy without saying so, which is accomplished by projecting their own supremacisms onto the legacy white majority.

    Remember, Angela’s forefathers created a society where they convinced 80% of the population to take a lower slot on society’s pecking order, without firing a single shot. As a result they took a society that was the most advanced at that time (remember they had toilets in their homes circa 2500BC) to today’s mess. But they don’t care, because they are at top.

    Nope they are doing it right in-front of your eyers right here. Question is….what will you all do.

  129. India, where the upper castes religiously wash their hands after seeing a Dalit. After taking an untouchable, not so much.

  130. Steve Sailer is helping Saini sell silly books to Indian Americans and Indians. Only fools take Saini’s claims seriously.

  131. @Mr McKenna
    Shouldn't "The Smartest Country on the Planet" at least be one of the smartest countries on the planet? Or is this some sort of Indian Logic lost upon the rest of us? Near as I can tell, not only is India not smart, it's actually quite stupid, with an average IQ of just over 80. So Indians are about as stupid as American Negroes, which we really don't need more of. For fun, look up "Declining IQ" on Google. You'll get a hundred 'prestige media' explanations of how yes, IQ may be in decline, but it's purely environmental in cause. It's not even because people in stupid countries (and their progeny in the West) are having more kids than smart people are. Nope, none of that. It's because of things like Global Warming. Seriously.

    Flooding Western countries with immigrants from low-IQ countries is one thing.

    The other is dumbing down of the general population. Look at international olympiads/contests in math/programming etc. Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Finland etc lag behind Eastern European and even Balkan (supposedly have lower IQ) countries. Why? Because leftists turned education more into feeling good, not hurting someone feelings, celebrating diversity and homo-pride rather than actual education.

  132. @Antonius
    Progress at last: 599 million people shitting in the street as opposed to 600 million people.

    This shitting in street phenomena has a very interesting link with the the castesim perpetuated by Angela and Suketu’s forefathers. Remember Indus Valley Civilization people had toilets in their homes 2500 years back!!

    What came after this civilization was the formation of modern pagan religion based civilization we call Hinduism, these people instituted the modern cast system, one of the core tenants of this cast system is to really humiliate and ostracize people at the bottom, overtime my guess is that these people just lost their humanity and started acting like animals, including shitting in streets.

    Pick your spot out on the street pilgrims, you will be next after you loose your mind getting ruled by Angela and Suketu and Neera and Hume and …..

    I am going to next look at David Reich’s amazing XYZ table of India DNA to pinpoint where all these sub-continental grifters are on.

  133. @Romanian
    Really not safe for work or easily upset stomachs.

    http://www.planetcustodian.com/2015/10/19/8134/over-50-scary-images-depicting-filth-of-varanasi-and-river-ganges-that-went-viral-in-china.html

    I cannot imagine a clearer explanation of why they want to come here and why we should not let them.

  134. 82. That’s Indians’ average IQ. Lower than the average for American blacks.

    This reminds me of a guy who used to write column after column on the superiority of India’s educational and economic system, three-time Pulitzer Prize winner, and marriage champ, Thomas Friedman. (He married an heiress.)

    Steve used to have a feature where he’d periodically devote a column to updating readers on Friedman’s predictions of the past few years, where Steve would point out that every single one of Friedman’s predictions had proven to be wrong. As far as I can recall, Friedman had a “perfect” .000 batting average.

    • Replies: @DB Cooper
    Average Indian IQ is actually 76, not 82.
    , @BengaliCanadianDude
    So? That's with third world malnutrition. The genetic IQ of Indians is in the mid 90s
  135. How can you measure and compare IQ of Indians, Chinese, Africans, etc.? Every IQ test I have taken had a number of questions testing verbal ability, but that is hard to compare across disparate languages. Also, are they using the IQs of Asian immigrants as a measure of Asian IQ? That seems fallacious, since the immigrants might be drawn from the more talented subset of the Asian population. Even time limits might be culture relative, with, for example, Asians comparing more favorably to Hispanics on a 30 minute test than a 120 minut test, just as skill at rapid chess is sensitive to experience at that time limit.

    • LOL: Chrisnonymous
  136. Anonymous[270] • Disclaimer says:

    find myself in what will soon become one of the most advanced cities on earth

    8 years later, little progress and the city is nowhere near of being the most advanced city on earth. In fact it’s quire remarkable how utterly unremarkable Lavasa is today.

  137. @War for Blair Mountain
    And India could not have rid itself of this poor image if were not for the fact that since 1965, India has imported thousands and thousands of Chinese LEGAL IMMIGRANTS every year, and as a consequence, the vast majority of MDs in India are Chinese and the overwhelming majority of PHDs awarded in Engineering....Computer Science...and Biochemistry in India are awarded to Chinese LEGAL IMMIGRANTS and their India born Chinese children......

    Source?

  138. @Sean
    India does OK, but they don't have Jews.

    Jeffrey Epstein on Edge

    http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/07/the-wisdom-of-jeffrey-epsteins-edge-foundation-answers.html

    2005 question — “What do you believe is true even though you cannot prove it?” — Epstein responded with some ontological gibberish that would give Rust Cohle a run for his money.

    The great breakthrough will involve a new understanding of time … that moving through time is not free, and that consciousness itself will be seen to only be a time sensor, adding to the other sensors of light and space.
     
    Epstein was booked up for the next few years, dealing with an FBI investigation into his predation in 2006, communicating with a legal team that struck plea-deal gold in 2007, and going to prison six days a week beginning in 2008. Still, he was able to answer the 2008 question: “What have you changed your mind about? Why?

    2008 question: “What have you changed your mind about? Why?”

    The question presupposes a well defined “you”, and an implied ability that is under “your” control to change your “mind”. The “you” I now believe is distributed amongst others (family friends, in hierarchical structures,) i.e. suicide bombers, believe their sacrifice is for the other parts of their “you”. The question carries with it an intention that I believe is out of one’s control. My mind changed as a result of its interaction with its environment. Why? because it is a part of it.
     

     
    Physicist Paul Davies on what I think Epstein was talking about HERE

    Say, maybe Epstein was laying the groundwork to be Marianne Williams’ running mate, to ensure a pardon from her upon their election. After all, Epstein is all about having the world relate to his beam….

  139. @HenryA
    I hear that pretty soon in the "Smartest country on the planet"" they're going to get started on indoor plumbing and sewers.

    I thought those were symbols of British colonial oppression.

  140. @Anon000

    If you exclude programming, which is another kettle of fish entirely, the question really is why has India, and indeed the rest of the subcontinent, had such pitiably poor impact on the consumer and industrial electronics and engineering industries?
     
    Kettle of fish or monkeys at keyboards.

    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/boeings-737-max-software-outsourced-204657048.html

    Boeing’s 737 Max Software Outsourced to $9-an-Hour Engineers

    ...the iconic American planemaker and its subcontractors have relied on temporary workers making as little as $9 an hour to develop and test software, often from countries lacking a deep background in aerospace -- notably India.
     
    http://www.newsbiscuit.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/monkeys-at-typewriters.jpg

    Paying bottom dollar for programmers and “engineers” leaves management a lot of extra funds for bonuses and stock buybacks; so what if a couple of your airliners full of customers fall out of the air.

  141. @bigdicknick
    lol israel and india. You can't make this stuff up, folks!

    That’s Jordan, not Israel.

  142. Anonymous[171] • Disclaimer says:
    @Kratoklastes

    demand the right to revenge-colonize the West.
     
    Frightened pakeha are hilarious. “Colonise”? I don’t watch a lot of TV news or current affairs, but I flatter myself that I keep abreast of the big-ticket geopolitical shifts, and yet I missed all the footage of dot-head military victories over the Anglosphere.

    Such dotheads as we have roaming around, are private individuals who are in our midst as a result of private decisions, pursuing their best interests. For the most part they are in our midst in compliance with such rules as your political overlords have established[1].

    The best way to point out how infantile your febrile catastrophising looks from the outside, is by contrast.

    The US invasion of Hawaii: that was a colonisation.
    The US invasion of the Philippines: that was an attempt at colonisation.
    The English invasion of India: colonisation.

    You get the drift: government-sponsored action, usually involving the use of government military and widespread death of dissenting civilians in the target locale. Then, a government-sponsored flood of immigrants from the colonising locale, and the imposition of colonial institutions that work to the advantage of some clique in the colonising locale.

    None of those essential characteristics is present when Sanjay gets his H1B and arrives in the US to write insecure, non-performance code for 45% less than a decent coder.

    If Sanjay’s rapport qualité-prix enables him to compete, Sanjay builds himself a reasonable life. If not, he becomes an Uber driver or works at a 7-11.

    The only people who bleat about the browning of ‘X’ (X being whichever Western former-coloniser is now absorbing the descendants of their victims), are the people who can’t out-compete Sanjay.

    And yet, they almost uniformly assert that Sanjay is cognitively inferior to the median indigene.

    As someone to whom Sanjay is no competitive threat, and who rightly does not give much of a fuck about anyone outside my immediate circle-of-really-giving-a-fuck (~10-20 people, globally), I kind of enjoy having him around - taxi fares are way lower, there’s a good range of ethnic food, and guys in my field can turn a decent dollar on the side, remediating the shitful code that Sanjay produced before the firm’s client database got posted to pastebin and Sanjay was “right sized” the fuck outta there.


    [1] Any political overlords we might share are yours, not mine. I do not have political overlords: their pronouncements are meaningless to me, and if they attempt to coerce me to comply with an edict, I either refuse, or I do damage to government-owned shit until I obtain as much satisfaction to offset the dissatisfaction engendered by complying (with a premium in dollar terms, because utility functions are concave).

    The English invasion of India: colonisation.

    That was carried out by private individuals who happened to be British (plus a lot of local collaborators). The British government role was minimal before 1857.

    The proper parallel would be if private Indian businessmen took control of the U.S. economy, and when the Americans tried to kick them out, the Indian government sent an army to America to protect them and their property.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    And it was totally dependent on the treason of the uniquely venal Indian elite, there was and could have been no "conquest." as with Jews, hatred of whites is a way of deflecting blame.
  143. I generally cheer on India (under Modi) but this is clearly premature. Even Chinese nationalists don’t make embarrassing brags like this. The fact that it’s from 2011 makes it even more laughable.

    • Replies: @DB Cooper
    Cheer on India for what? For its land grabbing of Chinese land? I have nothing but contempt for that shithole. Humility is highly valued in Chinese culture. True Chinese Nationalist are people in Taiwan. Those on the mainland are proud followers of the foreign Marx Leninism. Disgusting.
  144. @Mr McKenna
    Shouldn't "The Smartest Country on the Planet" at least be one of the smartest countries on the planet? Or is this some sort of Indian Logic lost upon the rest of us? Near as I can tell, not only is India not smart, it's actually quite stupid, with an average IQ of just over 80. So Indians are about as stupid as American Negroes, which we really don't need more of. For fun, look up "Declining IQ" on Google. You'll get a hundred 'prestige media' explanations of how yes, IQ may be in decline, but it's purely environmental in cause. It's not even because people in stupid countries (and their progeny in the West) are having more kids than smart people are. Nope, none of that. It's because of things like Global Warming. Seriously.

    Average Indian IQ is mid seventy (76), not low 80. This is consistent with all the different cognitive tests on Indians. But Indians do think highly of themselves.

  145. Not many people know but the shithole is a bully to its many smaller neighbors.

  146. @Jason Liu
    I generally cheer on India (under Modi) but this is clearly premature. Even Chinese nationalists don't make embarrassing brags like this. The fact that it's from 2011 makes it even more laughable.

    Cheer on India for what? For its land grabbing of Chinese land? I have nothing but contempt for that shithole. Humility is highly valued in Chinese culture. True Chinese Nationalist are people in Taiwan. Those on the mainland are proud followers of the foreign Marx Leninism. Disgusting.

    • Replies: @Jason Liu
    I generally support countries that are nationalistic because they tend to reject the western world order, which leads to a better world. Modi is good for the world right now. If India becomes too westernized then I will change my opinion.
  147. Anonymous[693] • Disclaimer says:
    @Kratoklastes

    demand the right to revenge-colonize the West.
     
    Frightened pakeha are hilarious. “Colonise”? I don’t watch a lot of TV news or current affairs, but I flatter myself that I keep abreast of the big-ticket geopolitical shifts, and yet I missed all the footage of dot-head military victories over the Anglosphere.

    Such dotheads as we have roaming around, are private individuals who are in our midst as a result of private decisions, pursuing their best interests. For the most part they are in our midst in compliance with such rules as your political overlords have established[1].

    The best way to point out how infantile your febrile catastrophising looks from the outside, is by contrast.

    The US invasion of Hawaii: that was a colonisation.
    The US invasion of the Philippines: that was an attempt at colonisation.
    The English invasion of India: colonisation.

    You get the drift: government-sponsored action, usually involving the use of government military and widespread death of dissenting civilians in the target locale. Then, a government-sponsored flood of immigrants from the colonising locale, and the imposition of colonial institutions that work to the advantage of some clique in the colonising locale.

    None of those essential characteristics is present when Sanjay gets his H1B and arrives in the US to write insecure, non-performance code for 45% less than a decent coder.

    If Sanjay’s rapport qualité-prix enables him to compete, Sanjay builds himself a reasonable life. If not, he becomes an Uber driver or works at a 7-11.

    The only people who bleat about the browning of ‘X’ (X being whichever Western former-coloniser is now absorbing the descendants of their victims), are the people who can’t out-compete Sanjay.

    And yet, they almost uniformly assert that Sanjay is cognitively inferior to the median indigene.

    As someone to whom Sanjay is no competitive threat, and who rightly does not give much of a fuck about anyone outside my immediate circle-of-really-giving-a-fuck (~10-20 people, globally), I kind of enjoy having him around - taxi fares are way lower, there’s a good range of ethnic food, and guys in my field can turn a decent dollar on the side, remediating the shitful code that Sanjay produced before the firm’s client database got posted to pastebin and Sanjay was “right sized” the fuck outta there.


    [1] Any political overlords we might share are yours, not mine. I do not have political overlords: their pronouncements are meaningless to me, and if they attempt to coerce me to comply with an edict, I either refuse, or I do damage to government-owned shit until I obtain as much satisfaction to offset the dissatisfaction engendered by complying (with a premium in dollar terms, because utility functions are concave).

    Yeah, right.

    Please try to lecture the Modi government about why India has built a formidable physical barrier – including armed guards – to separate it from Bangladesh. Oh, and the guards shoot to kill – which they do often.

    All poor Amina from Bangladesh wanted to do was enter India so she could work as a housemaid for a rich Hindu family, thereby making life that bit easier for privileged Indians, and as The Economist keeps badgering us, improving Indian GDP, not to mention the ‘cultural’ benefits she would bring in her wake. Indeed, prior to those nasty Brits quitting India in 1947, poor Amina was a fully paid up fellow India, just like the Chakrabarties.

    But, alas, that didn’t stop the Indian border guards – big, strong men – gunning her down like a dog as she clung to the fence wire of the border.

  148. @DB Cooper
    Cheer on India for what? For its land grabbing of Chinese land? I have nothing but contempt for that shithole. Humility is highly valued in Chinese culture. True Chinese Nationalist are people in Taiwan. Those on the mainland are proud followers of the foreign Marx Leninism. Disgusting.

    I generally support countries that are nationalistic because they tend to reject the western world order, which leads to a better world. Modi is good for the world right now. If India becomes too westernized then I will change my opinion.

  149. @Mr McKenna
    No one denies that there are various castes within India.
    See my response to Logan just above though.

    When I asked the Indian chap who lives in my street about the caste system he denied that it existed.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    That's a standard strategy across almost all nonwhites, because firstly they have no concept of objective truth, everything is just somebody's version, so it's not lying, and secondly the most important thing to most Asians is to not air dirty laundry, so you had no business bringing it up.
    >but that's perfectly incompatible with our political culture
    Yes. Yes it is.
    , @Mr McKenna
    They deny it right here on UNZ.COM, except when they're angling for Diversity Points.

    Sort of remind me of some other group whom we dare not name...
  150. @Hunsdon
    If you are faced by an honest enemy and a traitor, and you have only one bullet, shoot the traitor. If you are faced by an honest enemy and a traitor, and you have two bullets, shoot the traitor twice.

    Are there any honest enemies left? We live in an age of deception.

    • Replies: @Hunsdon
    In the absence of honest enemies, proceed to shooting the traitors.
  151. Is this a joke? What is Saini smoking? Is there a SINGLE technological innovation in the last 75 years from an Indian that has made a difference to anyone’s life?

    • Replies: @bomag

    Is there a SINGLE technological innovation...
     
    Highlights that contributions are rare from anyone, but the various grievance/supremacist groups are quick to claim that are the REAL contributors to modern life. The internet has plenty of Asian/Indian/African/Other commenters who patiently explain that their ethnic group is the smartest, the most accomplished, etc., and thus they should rightfully inherit the future.
    , @J.Ross
    How many spelling bees have you won?
  152. @Ian Smith
    https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/the-gandhi-nobody-knows/

    It should be plain by now that there is much in the Hindu culture that is distasteful to the Western mind, and consequently is largely unknown in the West—not because Hindus do not go on and on about these subjects, but because a Western squeamishness usually prevents these preoccupations from reaching print (not to mention film). When Gandhi attended his first Indian National Congress he was most distressed at seeing the Hindus—not laborers but high-caste Hindus, civic leaders—defecating all over the place, as if to pay attention to where the feces fell was somehow unclean. (For, as V.S. Naipaul puts it, in a twisted Hindu way it is unclean to clean. It is unclean even to notice. “It was the business of the sweepers to remove excrement, and until the sweepers came, people were content to live in the midst of their own excrement.”) Gandhi exhorted Indians endlessly on the subject, saying that sanitation was the first need of India, but he retained an obvious obsession with excreta, gleefully designing latrines and latrine drills for all hands at the ashram, and, all in all, what with giving and taking enemas, and his public bowel movements, and his deep concern with everyone else’s bowel movements (much correspondence), and endless dietary experiments as a function of bowel movements, he devoted a rather large share of his life to the matter. Despite his constant campaigning for sanitation, it is hard to believe that Gandhi was not permanently marked by what Arthur Koestler terms the Hindu “morbid infatuation with filth,” and what V.S. Naipaul goes as far as to call the Indian “deification of filth.” (Decades later, Krishna Menon, a Gandhian and one-time Indian Defense Minister, was still fortifying his sanctity by drinking a daily glass of urine.)

    Domestic or imported?

  153. @TelfoedJohn
    https://youtu.be/s6Lznha9EQ0

    Watching that clip, I couldn’t help but think: India was a crap-hole with Indian servants; but when White servants came along, things improved mightily.

  154. @MG
    Is this a joke? What is Saini smoking? Is there a SINGLE technological innovation in the last 75 years from an Indian that has made a difference to anyone’s life?

    Is there a SINGLE technological innovation…

    Highlights that contributions are rare from anyone, but the various grievance/supremacist groups are quick to claim that are the REAL contributors to modern life. The internet has plenty of Asian/Indian/African/Other commenters who patiently explain that their ethnic group is the smartest, the most accomplished, etc., and thus they should rightfully inherit the future.

  155. @Kratoklastes

    demand the right to revenge-colonize the West.
     
    Frightened pakeha are hilarious. “Colonise”? I don’t watch a lot of TV news or current affairs, but I flatter myself that I keep abreast of the big-ticket geopolitical shifts, and yet I missed all the footage of dot-head military victories over the Anglosphere.

    Such dotheads as we have roaming around, are private individuals who are in our midst as a result of private decisions, pursuing their best interests. For the most part they are in our midst in compliance with such rules as your political overlords have established[1].

    The best way to point out how infantile your febrile catastrophising looks from the outside, is by contrast.

    The US invasion of Hawaii: that was a colonisation.
    The US invasion of the Philippines: that was an attempt at colonisation.
    The English invasion of India: colonisation.

    You get the drift: government-sponsored action, usually involving the use of government military and widespread death of dissenting civilians in the target locale. Then, a government-sponsored flood of immigrants from the colonising locale, and the imposition of colonial institutions that work to the advantage of some clique in the colonising locale.

    None of those essential characteristics is present when Sanjay gets his H1B and arrives in the US to write insecure, non-performance code for 45% less than a decent coder.

    If Sanjay’s rapport qualité-prix enables him to compete, Sanjay builds himself a reasonable life. If not, he becomes an Uber driver or works at a 7-11.

    The only people who bleat about the browning of ‘X’ (X being whichever Western former-coloniser is now absorbing the descendants of their victims), are the people who can’t out-compete Sanjay.

    And yet, they almost uniformly assert that Sanjay is cognitively inferior to the median indigene.

    As someone to whom Sanjay is no competitive threat, and who rightly does not give much of a fuck about anyone outside my immediate circle-of-really-giving-a-fuck (~10-20 people, globally), I kind of enjoy having him around - taxi fares are way lower, there’s a good range of ethnic food, and guys in my field can turn a decent dollar on the side, remediating the shitful code that Sanjay produced before the firm’s client database got posted to pastebin and Sanjay was “right sized” the fuck outta there.


    [1] Any political overlords we might share are yours, not mine. I do not have political overlords: their pronouncements are meaningless to me, and if they attempt to coerce me to comply with an edict, I either refuse, or I do damage to government-owned shit until I obtain as much satisfaction to offset the dissatisfaction engendered by complying (with a premium in dollar terms, because utility functions are concave).

    You misuse the word ‘colonize’. Britain never colonized India, nor any place in South Africa except South Africa, with minute colonies in Rhodesia and Kenya, nor any other places except in North America, Australia and New Zealand. They did rule much of Africa, as well as the Indian sub-continent; and in many cases their rule was a lot better than that of those they displaced.

  156. @StripsOfRed
    Too bad they all look like different shades of brown to me. They need some skilled immigrants from the land of Kung Pao chicken, who can then take them to even greater heights (perhaps Mumbai will become the next Shanghai??) by fixing their massive indoor plumbing issues not to mention drive the next AI rev in India!!

    They need some virile Africans who can win medals for them in the olympics. And spawn some beautiful mixed race babies who can then go on to win even more medals!!

    A win win

    No, black African mixed with Indian usually produces a mixture that has the worst qualities of both parents.

  157. @Jus' Sayin'...
    India's nuclear submarines are rebuilds of Soviet hand-me-downs. And while there are some smart Indians, there evidently aren't enough to go around so that India can man these submarines with a competent crew, e.g. a crew all of whom are aware that all hatches should be shut before submerging. https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/whoops-indias-navy-left-nearly-sunk-its-own-3-billion-nuclear-submarine-66211

    I worked off and on in various positions requiring technical competence for over thirty years. During that time I never met one Indian or Pakistani who really impressed me with his technical capabilities. In fact I was often appalled at how ignorant, devoid of creativity, and just plain dumb many of the Indian and Pakistani H-1b programmers and engineers were, whom I ran across during my career. However, they were unusually good at kissing superiors' asses and mistreating subordinates.

    About 20 years ago while pursuing IT certifications, it became blazingly clear that the value of these certifications were going to be next to nil, as the mob of desperate Indian test takers sullying each and every discussion board looking for cheats and answer keys to memorize so they could ace the exam, would soon dilute the value of these certifications after they showed up to work and couldn’t set up a simple user account without referring to a Microsoft manual. I still see this on professional engineering fora.

  158. @Mr McKenna

    India is far more diverse than the USA, or indeed almost any country.
     
    At the risk of pointing out the obvious, to an observer from the far side of the globe, all of these different people from different castes will still easily be recognized as "Indian" people. Not so the USA: easily half of the people in our country would not, on sight alone, easily be recognized as American by someone from the far side of the globe (or even nearby). Surely this is a significant distinction.

    Quite right. Which of course takes us straight back to what we mean by “diverse.”

    Recently read a whole collection of newspaper articles, transcripts, etc. Original sources involving the sinking of the Titanic.

    One of its most interesting aspects was the unexamined assumption among Brits and Americans, and I guess probably Canadians, that they were all “us,” whereas other groups (Irish, French, Poles, Russians, Italians, even a Japanese) were all “them.”

    Your point is of course well taken if we assume that immediate visual differentiation is the only, or at least the most important, aspect of “diversity.”

    I’m not sure why that should assumed to be true.

  159. @Anonymous
    Always remember:

    Mathematical formalisms are Machines we model in our head. These machines may not even be physically possible (most of them are not, in particular because we still don't know whether spacetime is smooth as ℝ, it would be unlikely). They may be Turing machines, or they may be far, far better than Turing machines (thus unphysical; you can think about them and you can think about their properties; but you cannot run them, not even in your head).

    We are always talking about these Machines that we model and constrain in our head or on paper or using computers.

    The octonions are a good case in point. There is this little octonion-handling Machine we are talking about, right? But it's not real. It works consistently though, it manages the maintain the constraints of function that we demand of it. Very nice.

    Is it of any use? We don't know! Maybe there are things in Nature that could be modeled by this machine, in the same way as many things in Nature can be magically modeled by the Complex Numbers Machine.

    Maybe:

    https://www.quantamagazine.org/the-octonion-math-that-could-underpin-physics-20180720

    Yep. Thanks.

  160. @MG
    Is this a joke? What is Saini smoking? Is there a SINGLE technological innovation in the last 75 years from an Indian that has made a difference to anyone’s life?

    How many spelling bees have you won?

  161. @jim jones
    When I asked the Indian chap who lives in my street about the caste system he denied that it existed.

    That’s a standard strategy across almost all nonwhites, because firstly they have no concept of objective truth, everything is just somebody’s version, so it’s not lying, and secondly the most important thing to most Asians is to not air dirty laundry, so you had no business bringing it up.
    >but that’s perfectly incompatible with our political culture
    Yes. Yes it is.

  162. @Anonymous

    The English invasion of India: colonisation.
     
    That was carried out by private individuals who happened to be British (plus a lot of local collaborators). The British government role was minimal before 1857.

    The proper parallel would be if private Indian businessmen took control of the U.S. economy, and when the Americans tried to kick them out, the Indian government sent an army to America to protect them and their property.

    And it was totally dependent on the treason of the uniquely venal Indian elite, there was and could have been no “conquest.” as with Jews, hatred of whites is a way of deflecting blame.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Yes, huge profits were being made and everybody involved was getting rich, from the highest company officials down to office boys. Indians were eager to serve in company armies because the pay was so good. (Indeed, one of the causes of the 1857 mutiny was due to cutting soldiers' pay.)

    Though calling it 'treason' is a back-projection of modern attitudes. India in those days was like medieval Europe, with a multitude of states, nationalities, classes and other factions that were all loyal to themselves, not to something called 'India'.
  163. @War for Blair Mountain
    And India could not have rid itself of this poor image if were not for the fact that since 1965, India has imported thousands and thousands of Chinese LEGAL IMMIGRANTS every year, and as a consequence, the vast majority of MDs in India are Chinese and the overwhelming majority of PHDs awarded in Engineering....Computer Science...and Biochemistry in India are awarded to Chinese LEGAL IMMIGRANTS and their India born Chinese children......

    There is no source…..because the Hindus and Sihks in India would never tolerate the Chinese colonizing India’s Engineering schools and tech and medical labor markets………while at the same time, demanding that the HISTORIC NATIVE BORN WHITE AMERICAN WORKING CLASS MAJORITY tolerate the Hindu-Sihk Colonization of America’s Medical Doctor Profession and Engineering Schools…And Engineering and Computer Programming Labor Markets…

  164. @Redneck farmer
    The last paragraph, by the way, describes many of the people who can't jobs in the current economy.

    Yes, our poor job creators. They’re just too good for us.

  165. @Anon
    How exactly did India develop its own nuclear weapons and long range missiles?

    How exactly did India develop its own nuclear weapons and long range missiles?

    Low average IQ but massive population so a significant tail on the right side of the curve.

    Also maybe to do with not being homogeneous, some castes high IQ?

    There will be people here who have a better answer than mine I’m sure.

    • Replies: @BengaliCanadianDude
    Many castes high IQs. Tribals and nomads from ALL RELIGIOUS groups have particularly low IQs so this skews the numbers. Then there's the malnutrition angle. The genetic IQ is in the mid 90s I'd say.
  166. anon[138] • Disclaimer says:

    Dear Jack,

    It is not about a smarter fraction who can can lift the nation above its failings. Each level/group/caste/subcaste/religion/sub-religion what-have you, has intelligent people. Yes, really! It may not be the intelligence of Western IQ tests – logical, rational, or verbal, or that of speaking ‘good’ English, but a sensibility and cultural knowledge (both personal and communal) that has stood the test of time.

    Unfortunately, India is moribund, even today, and the people you see in the West or the urban elite in India, most especially the chatterati, tend to be from the groups that have benefited the most from…everything. They are in positions of power through generations – the former royal courtiers, the bureaucrats, the diplomats, the politicians, the merchants, even the educators and the educatees.

    The wealthy, upper classes of India have never gone without, and have benefited from inter-generational groupism and cronyism of hundreds, if not thousands, of years (though in many cases, even thousands of years as in the case of most erstwhile royal families, who, trust me, have kept their wealth in one form or another).

    These groups have been in power for generations and hoard all of the wealth and all of the opportunities, leaving little to nothing for their less-fortunate compatriots, whom they deem fit only to pick up garbage and shit, or go to made-up wars and die. Cannon fodder to protect elite interests. It is beyond sickening, it is deeply sinister and frightening. When under a screwed up Affirmative Action type program the government tried to implement to give children of the backward communities a chance to improve themselves through access to better schools or colleges, the students of the elite backgrounds literally hound these children to commit suicide. Imagine taunting a young girl or boy who is away from home, possibly for the first time, from a dirt-poor background so they don’t have the right clothes, hair-do, accent, ‘background’, can’t speak English very well or at all, nervous, and hounding them to the point of killing themselves!

    There is a deep, perverse, cultural warping among *all* communities of the Subcontinent, including Muslims and Sikhs. It would merit several book-length articles to even scratch the surface, so I won’t start. No one picks up their own garbage for instance. People laugh at me for cleaning my car, picking up my own trash, cleaning my house, scrubbing down the porch, pottering about my little garden (albeit a weedy one; I’m not the world’s best gardener!). Cleaning my own bathroom is beyond disgusting to most people (únthinkable!), and only fitting in their eyes since I am from a designated backward community. I’m probably used to this sort of thing!

    Everywhere I go, I am asked my last name first, and the minute people hear it, faces go blank and I am iced-out…of networks, relationships, friendships, opportunities, work. It’s gone underground in the elite circles, this type of discrimination. It’s a bit passe to just come out and say it to someone’s face. So it lurks, under the surface, and bites that much deeper for that reason.

    I am educated, I was lucky to have gainful employment for a long while, a supportive family for which I am immensely grateful to God. I had no idea, until I was well into adulthood that I was considered a backward person by Indian society, me – brought up by two brilliant, tough old birds to believe in myself and that I could do anything – a backward person! My family, and my community never accepts handouts. They are tough, self-reliant old-stock peasants (rednecks in your parlance I suppose) who’d rather go without than ask for or take a penny from anyone, least of all the government. I’m tough, mentally. I’ll take this nonsense and dish it back too, sometimes. But the enemy is fragmented, and too many. The aggression and utter disregard for another’s humanity is so systemic and deep rooted in people’s minds, that I, and millions of others like me, are defeated, daily. There are few, to none, options. The discrimination gets compounded if you are a woman, dark, can’t speak English, and so on. They (the elite) would sooner jump on the LGBTQ bandwagon (and many have) and spend all day virtue signalling on Facebook and Instagram before they’d clean up after themselves, or offer their poor cleaning lady or gadener a cup of tea or a glass of cold water.

    I hope this makes sense. It is very painful for me to see what is happening in India. We are coming apart at the seams, but no one notices or cares. As long as I get mine. Sorry, I got carried away. Guess I’m a little sad. But I meant to really say, that of that billion you count as ‘riff’-raff’ , there’s a good 300-400 million souls who are dirt-poor, mal-nourished, stick thin individuals with hearts and souls, and they have far more decency, common courtsey and kindness than all your elites put together, with much to spare.

  167. @Logan
    Jordan Peterson has said that the biggest flaw of the intellectual is that he falls in love with his own intellect and the ideas it generates. The funny part is that this is an emotional response and therefore not logical.

    Yeah, and Peterson says, that this intellectual narcissism could be looked upon as the natural (= built-in, so to speak) disadvantage of the intellectual compared to the lesser gifted. –

    – A thought I have brought up here some time ago in a lengthy comment too. I called it the law of the higher level of built-in natural distraction of the intellectually more gifted or some such. – Rationalizations are of special interest here. Freud’s rationalizations can – on the descriptive level – be understood as distractive powers – or powers which take a toll on clear thinking. The neurotic defense mechanism of rationalization meaning just that: Neurotic persons are persons, who’s ability to think in a reasonable way is lowered.

    I know of one situation, in which Peterson discusses this specific Achille’s heel of the rather bright humans: In his discussion with Joe Rogan in The Joe Rogan Experience #1208. It’s here starting at 53minutes 50 seconds

    Would you know of any other opportunity Peterson wrote or talked about this subject?

    • Replies: @Logan
    I tend to think of "an intellectual" not as a deep thinker, but as a character/social type. Someone who sincerely thinks those who think (what they think are) deep thoughts are the most important people in the world, and should have the wealth, power and status that goes along with such importance.

    I don't remember now who brought it up. But quite a few years ago I read an essay in which the author posited the last 300 or so years of Western history as follows:

    Western society had been dominated for over a thousand years by the clergy and nobility. Starting in the early 18th century "intellectuals" began to develop ideologies that would displace them, the Enlightenment. I define "intellectuals" as those who primarily produce ideas, not things or services that others want. This eventuated in the French Revolution, and the intellectuals, for a time, got control of the state and were able to start putting their ideas into practice.

    Then the Revolution ate its children, including most of the leading political intellectuals.

    When the smoke cleared in the 19th century, turned out the businessman, not the intellectual, ran off with the wealth and status formerly held by the clergy and nobility.

    They have resented the hell out of this ever since. Just seemed so unfair, as they'd done all the work to destroy the power of the Church and aristocracy. Pretty much all the intellectual and political movements since have been attempts by them to come up with reasons they, not the businessmen, should be the most important, wealthy and powerful members of society. To be sure, they are often unaware this is what they're doing.

  168. @Clyde
    Angela Saini is married or produced any children? Wikipedia says nothing on this. She is 38 and fairly decent looking for an Indian woman and among the palest (whitest) 10% of Indians.
    But not too pale to call out UK and the West as racist.

    To descend into the vernacular: Would pump. Then dump.

  169. @J.Ross
    You haven't read the Flashman papers, have you?

    Everyone should read the Flashman papers.

  170. @Romanian
    Are there any honest enemies left? We live in an age of deception.

    In the absence of honest enemies, proceed to shooting the traitors.

  171. @Mr McKenna

    India is far more diverse than the USA, or indeed almost any country.
     
    At the risk of pointing out the obvious, to an observer from the far side of the globe, all of these different people from different castes will still easily be recognized as "Indian" people. Not so the USA: easily half of the people in our country would not, on sight alone, easily be recognized as American by someone from the far side of the globe (or even nearby). Surely this is a significant distinction.

    At the risk of pointing out the obvious, to an observer from the far side of the globe, all of these different people from different castes will still easily be recognized as “Indian” people.

    That they all look the same doesn’t mean they all think the same or act the same. The differences will be readily apparent to the locals. Just like all the different breads turn the same brown after a period in the oven, everyone toasts alike in the hot subcontinental sun.

    Most Americans couldn’t tell a Japanese face from a Chinese one, but at nine years old with less than a year in Honolulu, this haole got to be quite adept at it. In contrast, their facial expressions and behavior drifted toward the local variety of the American mean.

    The Democratic Party looks wildly diverse on the surface, as does the average large university faculty. But these clumps of protoplasm tend to only two or three allied schools of thought– the race hustler, the guilty white, the cynical white.

  172. @Autochthon
    Show's what you know, smartypants. For your information, they have a timeline in place. Hindoos, you see, are so smart they swear everyone there will have "piped drinking water by 2024." Wow! What godlike technology have they uncovered to make such unimaginably sophisticated miracles a reality, and so soon?!

    https://youtu.be/FGt4notGxLc

    Not smart enough to impound sufficient water to avoid catastrophic droughts or to stop shitting out more babies than their resources can support, though.

    Perhaps I am being unfair, though; maybe all the emphasis on rocketry and genetics left no time to study hydrology.

    Piped drinking water does not mean clean, safe drinking water.

    Cryptosporidia can do just fine in a a pipe.

  173. @AndrewR
    I'm not entirely convinced she isn't a parody account like Titania McGrath. The blue checkmark means nothing anymore, if it ever did. "Rao" certainly goes out of her way to be inflammatory and provocative. It's worked for Ann Coulter.

    I’m not entirely convinced she isn’t a parody account like Titania McGrath.

    She contested the Democratic congressional primary for CO’s 1st district in 2018; so I don’t know… — but I can understand the suspicion — the 1st is 60% white.

  174. @Anonymous
    Lavasa's Wikipedia page would seem to indicate that little progress has been made. Also, the city "is stylistically based on the Italian town Portofino, with a street and several buildings bearing the name of that town."

    Given that Indians have thousands of years worth of architectural heritage to draw upon(some of it pretty spectacular), you'd think they woudn't need to ape the Italians.

    Release the Rovers!

    Sir Clough Williams-Ellis, Portmeirion’s designer, denied repeated claims that the design was based on the fishing village of Portofino on the Italian Riviera. He stated only that he wanted to pay tribute to the atmosphere of the Mediterranean. He did, however, draw from a love of the Italian village stating, “How should I not have fallen for Portofino? Indeed its image remained with me as an almost perfect example of the man-made adornment and use of an exquisite site.”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portmeirion

    I sincerely hope that the denizens of this post-Imperial enclave are only identified by numbers, and not by primitive family names. Oh, and have to commute by canopied tricycle or kit Lotus.

    Saina can be No. 666.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Prisoner

    • Replies: @Expletive Deleted
    Just had a quick squint at the pictures of this Lavasa place.
    Not Portofino.
    More like Nyhavn, but re-imagined by communists.
    https://euro-travels.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Copenhagen.jpg
  175. @Autochthon

    How big a market could there be in hot bicycle seats? On the other hand, if your bicycle seat is stolen every week, I guess that makes a market.
     
    Right. It's not theft as such, so much as a complicated extortion ring where one must pay to have one's own (or some other victim's – I imagine the seats of bicycles are pretty fungible) to be returned.

    But – hey! – you'd expect just that level of criminal genius and innovation from The Smartest Country in the World, amiright?!

    They took her bicycle seat, humm?
    I wonder why?

  176. @Nicholas Stix
    82. That’s Indians’ average IQ. Lower than the average for American blacks.

    This reminds me of a guy who used to write column after column on the superiority of India’s educational and economic system, three-time Pulitzer Prize winner, and marriage champ, Thomas Friedman. (He married an heiress.)

    Steve used to have a feature where he’d periodically devote a column to updating readers on Friedman’s predictions of the past few years, where Steve would point out that every single one of Friedman’s predictions had proven to be wrong. As far as I can recall, Friedman had a “perfect” .000 batting average.

    Average Indian IQ is actually 76, not 82.

    • Replies: @Nicholas Stix
    My source is Richard Lynn, Race Differences in Intelligence: An Evolutionary Analysis, 2006, 174.

    What’s yours?
  177. @Spangel
    Do they really drag them down though? Seems like the smart fraction does fine for themselves and carries on indifferently to all the impoverished masses.

    South Asians are not like blacks. It’s been said here that Africans can’t do things like put up power generators and power lines because there are always fewer willing to do the work than those who will tear the wires down.

    Indians don’t appear to be like that. The masses aren’t reckless and destructive in the way blacks are. If we for some reason imported millions of completely average intelligence Indians (iq 87 or whatever it may be), I suspect they would soon fare much better than American blacks. I’d be massively surprised if they had a similar propensity for violence and they would probably maintain a lower rate of illigitimacy for many generations to come. They probably wouldn’t squander their earnings on bling or live permanently paycheck to paycheck.

    Indians have a dysfunctional society seemingly because they don’t care about people outside their endogenous group and have a limited concept of civic mindedness. But those who make something of themselves don’t seem constantly undermined by those who don’t.

    Seems like you don’t know much about Indians. First off average Indians IQ is 76, not 87. And Indians are totally destructive. This year India launched a so called ‘high speed’ train. The train was vandalized the first week of its operation. Such destructive behavior are just typical Indians. That’s why the country is a shithole.

    • Replies: @Spangel
    Wouldn’t an iq of 76 that imply half of them basically cannot become functionally literate?

    South Asian iq seems like a weird beast. On another blog on unz, it says the Sri Lankan iq is 87 or something but the blog author actually reanalyzed the raw iq test results and weighted it down from the original 90. Is it really possible that Sri Lanka has an average iq of 90 while India’s is 76? Maybe?

    Can you link to your vandalized train story? I googled but didn’t find anything. It seems a high speed train was disrupted during its first week due to cattle, but I didn’t see anything about deliberate vandalism. In any case, that would not refute my point. For sure that society is poor at large public projects such as a high speed train. But they do not prevent individuals or caste groups or whatever from getting somewhere.

    The other things mysterious about south Asian iq is that it’s not clear if they are verbal or quant dominant. They dominate spelling bees enough so that one can’t just claim this is selection bias. There seems to be some underlying stregnth in either memory or verbal ability or language acquisition.

    But then south Asian cognitive elite also do well (but not as well) in the math Olympiad. Are the same castes responsible for both the spelling bee winners and the math Olympiad medalists or are they different? And what is their cognitive profile broken down by gender? Are they like East Asians where both men and women are quant dominant or like whites where only men tend to be quant dominant?

    We generally know that Indian cognitive profiles vary substantially by endogenous group and that south Asian iq on average is probably at least a standard deviation below whites, but we don’t seem to have data on whether there are underlying aptitude patterns to the ethnicity as a whole or how far skewed away from a bell curve distribution Indian iq is.

  178. @Expletive Deleted
    Release the Rovers!
    http://popapostle.com/Prisoner/images/episodes/P67/A-B-and-C/large-phone_med.jpg

    Sir Clough Williams-Ellis, Portmeirion's designer, denied repeated claims that the design was based on the fishing village of Portofino on the Italian Riviera. He stated only that he wanted to pay tribute to the atmosphere of the Mediterranean. He did, however, draw from a love of the Italian village stating, "How should I not have fallen for Portofino? Indeed its image remained with me as an almost perfect example of the man-made adornment and use of an exquisite site."
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portmeirion

    I sincerely hope that the denizens of this post-Imperial enclave are only identified by numbers, and not by primitive family names. Oh, and have to commute by canopied tricycle or kit Lotus.

    Saina can be No. 666.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Prisoner

    Just had a quick squint at the pictures of this Lavasa place.
    Not Portofino.
    More like Nyhavn, but re-imagined by communists.

  179. @DB Cooper
    Average Indian IQ is 76. Not high IQ at all.

    Honestly, every encounter I have with Indians leaves me impressed with their intelligence, and also kind of shocked at their lack of ethics or morality. The Chinese don’t come across as smart or as wicked as the Indians. ALso, Indians tend to rise faster in corporate hierarchies than Chinese — Google and Microsoft are led by Indians at this point.

    yeah, maybe it is self-selected, but I don’t get where this meme of Indians being low-IQ comes from. Chinese are just as self-selected.

    • Replies: @Spangel
    I interact with a fair amount of Indians in my field (finance) but I’m aware that these people don’t represent the masses of that country. I am not sure I have spoken to a low caste Indian so I really can’t say from experience what their mind is like but agreed, the ones you see in the us are good at giving at least the superficial impression that they are intelligent and probably are at least above average given their children’s school performance.

    And all of the most corrupt, manipulative and brown nosing corporate employees I have seen in my life are Indian. I would not call the ones here stupid people but I have to call many if not most of the ones I’ve dealt with vicious people. They are not simplistically emotive and they aren’t impulsive in self destructive ways like blacks. But gratuitously bullying if they think they can get away with it? That they are.

    I’m not sure how much of it is genetic vs cultural because I have noticed that those raised here seem way less nasty.
  180. Indians are the smartest people in the world yet everyone there defecates in the streets which are open sewage pits.

    That, and all Indians are dying to leave their smartest country in the world to go to America.

    Weird. I just can’t figure it.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    No, they're not *all* dying to go to America. On the one hand, it's just the utter lack of ávailable' opportunities locally. It's hard even to explain. As I speak, there are literally hundreds and thousands of well-paid (by Indian standards) jobs that have been advertised online and in newspapers. But there are millions of applicants. Even if you discount and eliminate for poor education, inability to dress or speak properly, or a fit between the job profile and the candidate, there are still hundreds of candidates for every single position. You'll be hired if you look right, have the right last name and probably know the hiring manager or the recruiter. There are the utterly irrational demands for a laundry list of all possible skills and degrees for even the most junior position as a janitor (why does a janitorial position need a college degree anyway?). Training the candidate on the job is unheard of. All these new fangled concepts one hears of, such as job mobility, lateral moves, switching industries and so on, are only for the cream of the urban elite who have degrees from India's premier degree mills - IITs and IIMs. Everyone else can take a long walk off a short pier, and will scrabble for crumbs to keep body and soul together. Tell me, what have the IIT and IIM graduates ever done for India? Does India even need these so-called elite schools, filled with generation after generation of sociopaths from elite families? The other side of the coin are the graduates of these (and other elite schools) who just want to leave India to make even more money in America or wherever, because after a few years of working they can live like kings.
    So there is no balance in society when it comes to employment, education, attitudes.

    Shitting on the streets, well, that's a different beast. I think the Indian upper middle class to wealth classes are supremely self interested, to the point where they actually don't care about larger society. As long as their circle is fed and clothed, all's right with the world. The Indian leaders are actually crafty to the point of psychotic. All this street shitting or whatever could go away in a NY minute (is that the actual expression?), if they really wanted it too. But how would the lower classes be reminded of their station in life, if it wern't for these daily humiliations? What is a man or woman living in a dense, crowded slum to do, when there are no bathrooms or running water available? I mean, it literally comes down to that. the bureaucrats and politicians and their hangers-on, and the vendors and 'consultants' eat away most of the public funds earmarked for any public utilities really. I guess if you treat people like animals, after a point they start acting like it too. But in this case, it is more because there just aren't the facilities, and society does not deem it to be a priority.
  181. @DB Cooper
    Seems like you don't know much about Indians. First off average Indians IQ is 76, not 87. And Indians are totally destructive. This year India launched a so called 'high speed' train. The train was vandalized the first week of its operation. Such destructive behavior are just typical Indians. That's why the country is a shithole.

    Wouldn’t an iq of 76 that imply half of them basically cannot become functionally literate?

    South Asian iq seems like a weird beast. On another blog on unz, it says the Sri Lankan iq is 87 or something but the blog author actually reanalyzed the raw iq test results and weighted it down from the original 90. Is it really possible that Sri Lanka has an average iq of 90 while India’s is 76? Maybe?

    Can you link to your vandalized train story? I googled but didn’t find anything. It seems a high speed train was disrupted during its first week due to cattle, but I didn’t see anything about deliberate vandalism. In any case, that would not refute my point. For sure that society is poor at large public projects such as a high speed train. But they do not prevent individuals or caste groups or whatever from getting somewhere.

    The other things mysterious about south Asian iq is that it’s not clear if they are verbal or quant dominant. They dominate spelling bees enough so that one can’t just claim this is selection bias. There seems to be some underlying stregnth in either memory or verbal ability or language acquisition.

    But then south Asian cognitive elite also do well (but not as well) in the math Olympiad. Are the same castes responsible for both the spelling bee winners and the math Olympiad medalists or are they different? And what is their cognitive profile broken down by gender? Are they like East Asians where both men and women are quant dominant or like whites where only men tend to be quant dominant?

    We generally know that Indian cognitive profiles vary substantially by endogenous group and that south Asian iq on average is probably at least a standard deviation below whites, but we don’t seem to have data on whether there are underlying aptitude patterns to the ethnicity as a whole or how far skewed away from a bell curve distribution Indian iq is.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Right. I think the South Asian cognitive profile must be quite complex, more so than, say, the East Asian cognitive profile, which is more complex than we might assume.

    More research is needed!

  182. @IndianSupremacism
    So Saini is an Indian Supremacist.

    It seems that our melting pot is instead an entrenchment of hardboiled supremacist groups all trying to shill their own group's supremacy without saying so, which is accomplished by projecting their own supremacisms onto the legacy white majority.

    Great comment

  183. @Spangel
    Wouldn’t an iq of 76 that imply half of them basically cannot become functionally literate?

    South Asian iq seems like a weird beast. On another blog on unz, it says the Sri Lankan iq is 87 or something but the blog author actually reanalyzed the raw iq test results and weighted it down from the original 90. Is it really possible that Sri Lanka has an average iq of 90 while India’s is 76? Maybe?

    Can you link to your vandalized train story? I googled but didn’t find anything. It seems a high speed train was disrupted during its first week due to cattle, but I didn’t see anything about deliberate vandalism. In any case, that would not refute my point. For sure that society is poor at large public projects such as a high speed train. But they do not prevent individuals or caste groups or whatever from getting somewhere.

    The other things mysterious about south Asian iq is that it’s not clear if they are verbal or quant dominant. They dominate spelling bees enough so that one can’t just claim this is selection bias. There seems to be some underlying stregnth in either memory or verbal ability or language acquisition.

    But then south Asian cognitive elite also do well (but not as well) in the math Olympiad. Are the same castes responsible for both the spelling bee winners and the math Olympiad medalists or are they different? And what is their cognitive profile broken down by gender? Are they like East Asians where both men and women are quant dominant or like whites where only men tend to be quant dominant?

    We generally know that Indian cognitive profiles vary substantially by endogenous group and that south Asian iq on average is probably at least a standard deviation below whites, but we don’t seem to have data on whether there are underlying aptitude patterns to the ethnicity as a whole or how far skewed away from a bell curve distribution Indian iq is.

    Right. I think the South Asian cognitive profile must be quite complex, more so than, say, the East Asian cognitive profile, which is more complex than we might assume.

    More research is needed!

  184. @bucky
    Honestly, every encounter I have with Indians leaves me impressed with their intelligence, and also kind of shocked at their lack of ethics or morality. The Chinese don't come across as smart or as wicked as the Indians. ALso, Indians tend to rise faster in corporate hierarchies than Chinese -- Google and Microsoft are led by Indians at this point.

    yeah, maybe it is self-selected, but I don't get where this meme of Indians being low-IQ comes from. Chinese are just as self-selected.

    I interact with a fair amount of Indians in my field (finance) but I’m aware that these people don’t represent the masses of that country. I am not sure I have spoken to a low caste Indian so I really can’t say from experience what their mind is like but agreed, the ones you see in the us are good at giving at least the superficial impression that they are intelligent and probably are at least above average given their children’s school performance.

    And all of the most corrupt, manipulative and brown nosing corporate employees I have seen in my life are Indian. I would not call the ones here stupid people but I have to call many if not most of the ones I’ve dealt with vicious people. They are not simplistically emotive and they aren’t impulsive in self destructive ways like blacks. But gratuitously bullying if they think they can get away with it? That they are.

    I’m not sure how much of it is genetic vs cultural because I have noticed that those raised here seem way less nasty.

    • Replies: @bucky
    Yes, there is an Indian nihilism that is an interesting contrast with the Chinese, who, frankly, come across as childlike.

    Westerners travel to India to find deep spiritual truths. They see Asia like it's Disneyland and a theme park they can stomp around in. And Indians are not Asians to be clear, Asia is Japan to Thailand.

    Most Chinese I've met do not come across as smart. They often come across as weak. But they are not as vicious as Indians. Chinese scandals such as bad baby formula probably come from weakness, but not from malice, while malice abounds among Indians.

    Which is to say that it is possible that the conventional wisdom is wrong. China and Chinese are actually high trust/moderate iq. Indians are as I said high iq but low trust.
  185. Ach damn, marked as spam. The point is she’s probably the most beautiful mathematician in human history: Dr Furey

  186. @Dieter Kief
    Yeah, and Peterson says, that this intellectual narcissism could be looked upon as the natural (= built-in, so to speak) disadvantage of the intellectual compared to the lesser gifted. -


    - A thought I have brought up here some time ago in a lengthy comment too. I called it the law of the higher level of built-in natural distraction of the intellectually more gifted or some such. - Rationalizations are of special interest here. Freud's rationalizations can - on the descriptive level - be understood as distractive powers - or powers which take a toll on clear thinking. The neurotic defense mechanism of rationalization meaning just that: Neurotic persons are persons, who's ability to think in a reasonable way is lowered.

    I know of one situation, in which Peterson discusses this specific Achille's heel of the rather bright humans: In his discussion with Joe Rogan in The Joe Rogan Experience #1208. It's here starting at 53minutes 50 seconds

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIeFt88Hm8s


    Would you know of any other opportunity Peterson wrote or talked about this subject?

    I tend to think of “an intellectual” not as a deep thinker, but as a character/social type. Someone who sincerely thinks those who think (what they think are) deep thoughts are the most important people in the world, and should have the wealth, power and status that goes along with such importance.

    I don’t remember now who brought it up. But quite a few years ago I read an essay in which the author posited the last 300 or so years of Western history as follows:

    Western society had been dominated for over a thousand years by the clergy and nobility. Starting in the early 18th century “intellectuals” began to develop ideologies that would displace them, the Enlightenment. I define “intellectuals” as those who primarily produce ideas, not things or services that others want. This eventuated in the French Revolution, and the intellectuals, for a time, got control of the state and were able to start putting their ideas into practice.

    Then the Revolution ate its children, including most of the leading political intellectuals.

    When the smoke cleared in the 19th century, turned out the businessman, not the intellectual, ran off with the wealth and status formerly held by the clergy and nobility.

    They have resented the hell out of this ever since. Just seemed so unfair, as they’d done all the work to destroy the power of the Church and aristocracy. Pretty much all the intellectual and political movements since have been attempts by them to come up with reasons they, not the businessmen, should be the most important, wealthy and powerful members of society. To be sure, they are often unaware this is what they’re doing.

  187. Anonymous[138] • Disclaimer says:
    @Moses
    Indians are the smartest people in the world yet everyone there defecates in the streets which are open sewage pits.

    That, and all Indians are dying to leave their smartest country in the world to go to America.

    Weird. I just can't figure it.

    No, they’re not *all* dying to go to America. On the one hand, it’s just the utter lack of ávailable’ opportunities locally. It’s hard even to explain. As I speak, there are literally hundreds and thousands of well-paid (by Indian standards) jobs that have been advertised online and in newspapers. But there are millions of applicants. Even if you discount and eliminate for poor education, inability to dress or speak properly, or a fit between the job profile and the candidate, there are still hundreds of candidates for every single position. You’ll be hired if you look right, have the right last name and probably know the hiring manager or the recruiter. There are the utterly irrational demands for a laundry list of all possible skills and degrees for even the most junior position as a janitor (why does a janitorial position need a college degree anyway?). Training the candidate on the job is unheard of. All these new fangled concepts one hears of, such as job mobility, lateral moves, switching industries and so on, are only for the cream of the urban elite who have degrees from India’s premier degree mills – IITs and IIMs. Everyone else can take a long walk off a short pier, and will scrabble for crumbs to keep body and soul together. Tell me, what have the IIT and IIM graduates ever done for India? Does India even need these so-called elite schools, filled with generation after generation of sociopaths from elite families? The other side of the coin are the graduates of these (and other elite schools) who just want to leave India to make even more money in America or wherever, because after a few years of working they can live like kings.
    So there is no balance in society when it comes to employment, education, attitudes.

    Shitting on the streets, well, that’s a different beast. I think the Indian upper middle class to wealth classes are supremely self interested, to the point where they actually don’t care about larger society. As long as their circle is fed and clothed, all’s right with the world. The Indian leaders are actually crafty to the point of psychotic. All this street shitting or whatever could go away in a NY minute (is that the actual expression?), if they really wanted it too. But how would the lower classes be reminded of their station in life, if it wern’t for these daily humiliations? What is a man or woman living in a dense, crowded slum to do, when there are no bathrooms or running water available? I mean, it literally comes down to that. the bureaucrats and politicians and their hangers-on, and the vendors and ‘consultants’ eat away most of the public funds earmarked for any public utilities really. I guess if you treat people like animals, after a point they start acting like it too. But in this case, it is more because there just aren’t the facilities, and society does not deem it to be a priority.

  188. @Spangel
    I interact with a fair amount of Indians in my field (finance) but I’m aware that these people don’t represent the masses of that country. I am not sure I have spoken to a low caste Indian so I really can’t say from experience what their mind is like but agreed, the ones you see in the us are good at giving at least the superficial impression that they are intelligent and probably are at least above average given their children’s school performance.

    And all of the most corrupt, manipulative and brown nosing corporate employees I have seen in my life are Indian. I would not call the ones here stupid people but I have to call many if not most of the ones I’ve dealt with vicious people. They are not simplistically emotive and they aren’t impulsive in self destructive ways like blacks. But gratuitously bullying if they think they can get away with it? That they are.

    I’m not sure how much of it is genetic vs cultural because I have noticed that those raised here seem way less nasty.

    Yes, there is an Indian nihilism that is an interesting contrast with the Chinese, who, frankly, come across as childlike.

    Westerners travel to India to find deep spiritual truths. They see Asia like it’s Disneyland and a theme park they can stomp around in. And Indians are not Asians to be clear, Asia is Japan to Thailand.

    Most Chinese I’ve met do not come across as smart. They often come across as weak. But they are not as vicious as Indians. Chinese scandals such as bad baby formula probably come from weakness, but not from malice, while malice abounds among Indians.

    Which is to say that it is possible that the conventional wisdom is wrong. China and Chinese are actually high trust/moderate iq. Indians are as I said high iq but low trust.

  189. @bomag
    Right.

    Can we avoid the problems of population pressure, even if we wanted to? Right now, our political leaders are waving orange glow sticks as they wave more people into this country. And with the current infrastructure of mass travel and prepackaged food, migration is pretty easy.

    I recall popular songs from back in the day would have concerns about such things, i.e. John Denver singing about "more people, more scars upon the land"; Tom T. Halls Subdivision Blues; not so much anymore. Now our host, Ron Unz, will note that the added traffic and construction in Palo Alto gets to the point where it sucks the joy out of life, but with a sense that there is nothing to be done about it.

    I'm certain the future belongs to those willing to control population numbers, but such people are in short supply right now.

    The future appears to belong to the billions of brown unwashed, overseen by a tiny tribe of self-styled elitists. The rest of us are being written out, along with civilization itself.

  190. @jim jones
    When I asked the Indian chap who lives in my street about the caste system he denied that it existed.

    They deny it right here on UNZ.COM, except when they’re angling for Diversity Points.

    Sort of remind me of some other group whom we dare not name…

  191. Anonymous[378] • Disclaimer says:
    @J.Ross
    And it was totally dependent on the treason of the uniquely venal Indian elite, there was and could have been no "conquest." as with Jews, hatred of whites is a way of deflecting blame.

    Yes, huge profits were being made and everybody involved was getting rich, from the highest company officials down to office boys. Indians were eager to serve in company armies because the pay was so good. (Indeed, one of the causes of the 1857 mutiny was due to cutting soldiers’ pay.)

    Though calling it ‘treason’ is a back-projection of modern attitudes. India in those days was like medieval Europe, with a multitude of states, nationalities, classes and other factions that were all loyal to themselves, not to something called ‘India’.

  192. A bit unfair. I may be wrong, but don’t editors not writers write the headlines?

  193. @DB Cooper
    Average Indian IQ is actually 76, not 82.

    My source is Richard Lynn, Race Differences in Intelligence: An Evolutionary Analysis, 2006, 174.

    What’s yours?

  194. @Kratoklastes

    demand the right to revenge-colonize the West.
     
    Frightened pakeha are hilarious. “Colonise”? I don’t watch a lot of TV news or current affairs, but I flatter myself that I keep abreast of the big-ticket geopolitical shifts, and yet I missed all the footage of dot-head military victories over the Anglosphere.

    Such dotheads as we have roaming around, are private individuals who are in our midst as a result of private decisions, pursuing their best interests. For the most part they are in our midst in compliance with such rules as your political overlords have established[1].

    The best way to point out how infantile your febrile catastrophising looks from the outside, is by contrast.

    The US invasion of Hawaii: that was a colonisation.
    The US invasion of the Philippines: that was an attempt at colonisation.
    The English invasion of India: colonisation.

    You get the drift: government-sponsored action, usually involving the use of government military and widespread death of dissenting civilians in the target locale. Then, a government-sponsored flood of immigrants from the colonising locale, and the imposition of colonial institutions that work to the advantage of some clique in the colonising locale.

    None of those essential characteristics is present when Sanjay gets his H1B and arrives in the US to write insecure, non-performance code for 45% less than a decent coder.

    If Sanjay’s rapport qualité-prix enables him to compete, Sanjay builds himself a reasonable life. If not, he becomes an Uber driver or works at a 7-11.

    The only people who bleat about the browning of ‘X’ (X being whichever Western former-coloniser is now absorbing the descendants of their victims), are the people who can’t out-compete Sanjay.

    And yet, they almost uniformly assert that Sanjay is cognitively inferior to the median indigene.

    As someone to whom Sanjay is no competitive threat, and who rightly does not give much of a fuck about anyone outside my immediate circle-of-really-giving-a-fuck (~10-20 people, globally), I kind of enjoy having him around - taxi fares are way lower, there’s a good range of ethnic food, and guys in my field can turn a decent dollar on the side, remediating the shitful code that Sanjay produced before the firm’s client database got posted to pastebin and Sanjay was “right sized” the fuck outta there.


    [1] Any political overlords we might share are yours, not mine. I do not have political overlords: their pronouncements are meaningless to me, and if they attempt to coerce me to comply with an edict, I either refuse, or I do damage to government-owned shit until I obtain as much satisfaction to offset the dissatisfaction engendered by complying (with a premium in dollar terms, because utility functions are concave).

    The US invasion of the Philippines: that was an attempt at colonisation.

    Not really. It was an entirely successful invasion and conquest. Which was then followed by an entirely voluntary plan for granting it freedom. The US never really had any intent to maintain permanent occupation.

  195. @Gordo

    How exactly did India develop its own nuclear weapons and long range missiles?
     
    Low average IQ but massive population so a significant tail on the right side of the curve.

    Also maybe to do with not being homogeneous, some castes high IQ?

    There will be people here who have a better answer than mine I'm sure.

    Many castes high IQs. Tribals and nomads from ALL RELIGIOUS groups have particularly low IQs so this skews the numbers. Then there’s the malnutrition angle. The genetic IQ is in the mid 90s I’d say.

  196. @Nicholas Stix
    82. That’s Indians’ average IQ. Lower than the average for American blacks.

    This reminds me of a guy who used to write column after column on the superiority of India’s educational and economic system, three-time Pulitzer Prize winner, and marriage champ, Thomas Friedman. (He married an heiress.)

    Steve used to have a feature where he’d periodically devote a column to updating readers on Friedman’s predictions of the past few years, where Steve would point out that every single one of Friedman’s predictions had proven to be wrong. As far as I can recall, Friedman had a “perfect” .000 batting average.

    So? That’s with third world malnutrition. The genetic IQ of Indians is in the mid 90s

Comments are closed.

Subscribe to All Steve Sailer Comments via RSS
PastClassics
Which superpower is more threatened by its “extractive elites”?
What Was John McCain's True Wartime Record in Vietnam?
Are elite university admissions based on meritocracy and diversity as claimed?