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Full disclosure: I’ve met with Russians. I met with a Russian this morning. She brought me coffee. Such crazy and dangerous things can occur in Moscow. I am afraid the CIA and NSA could take notice of this meeting, and then it can be used – even against you. “You have perused an article by Israel Shamir. Were you aware he had Russian contacts?”

Though I am not too young, this is the first time I have witnessed such a witch-hunt. In Russia, there are many foreigners, Europeans and Americans as well, and Russians mingle with them freely, with no fear. The Russians are not afraid to meet with the US Ambassador; they are rather proud of the occasion. When the US Ambassador throws a party or holds a reception, all who-is-who in Moscow come to Spaso-House, the residence.

Even in Stalin’s days, the Russians went to the reception, and Mikhail Bulgakov depicted such a reception as Satan’s ball in his Master and Margarita. In recent years, all Russian opposition figures have visited the US ambassador and had had hearty chats with him.

Not only in Russia. The Wikileaks-published State Department cables describe hundreds of meetings between US Ambassadors and opposition figures all over the world. Amazingly, nowhere was such a meeting considered as a breach of national security and an incapacitating blemish on an opposition leader.

Well, probably in light of the Russian scare, nations should enact laws forbidding a person who had met with the US ambassador from occupying any public position or running for election. They could call it the Flynn Law, in the spirit of reciprocity.

The US political class has brought this calamity upon itself. If whoever met the Russian ambassador or a Russian government minister, or the Russian president (God forbid) is unsuitable for governing, the whole top layer of American politicians would be disqualified. Last year even Jill Stein, the super-kosher woman of the US politics, the Green Party candidate for president, visited Moscow and had a place at the table with Putin, before flying back and asking to recount the Wisconsin vote.

The Russians watch the new witch-hunt over the ocean with mild surprise. They did not know they were so formidable, so scary. Nor did I. I can list Russia’s faults from today till next Christmas – it is a country of terrible bureaucracy, of impossible laws, of annoying police, of huge social gaps, of harsh weather and bad roads – but I do not know of a single reason for considering Russia a threat to anybody. The Russians are keen to accept international law, they believe in national sovereignty, they do not tell other states how they should manage their civic life or do business. And they do not meddle in other states’ affairs, though it would be better if they did.

ORDER IT NOW

When in February 2014, Ms Nuland, then of the US State Department (the ‘F*ck the EU’ lady mercifully lost her job with ascent of Trump) and the US Ambassador Geoffrey Pyatt stoked the Maidan fire and doled out cookies in Kiev, the Russian Ambassador in Kiev made himself scarce. Perhaps he went to play golf. Not a single Russian political figure had bothered to go to Kiev and talk to people. Russian non-interference in the Ukraine’s affairs had been so scrupulous, as if the Ukraine were a remote Latin American state of little interest to Russians.

That fateful February three years ago, the only thing in which the Russians had interested were the Sochi Olympic Games. Kiev burned, but they discussed the biathlon. Biathlon, forsooth! The governors of Ukraine provinces asked Moscow whether it would come to save the day of the legitimate government, but in Moscow nobody picked up the receiver. On February 22, 2014, when the president Yanukovych escaped Kiev and went to Kharkov for meetings with the leaders of the Eastern Ukraine, the Russians could have established the legitimate government in Kharkov and at least split the Ukraine into two halves, with very little effort. But they did not show up and they did not say they would support such a government, and the people of Ukraine accepted the Kiev putsch.

If Putin were just slightly similar to the fire-breathing image of himself in the Western media, the Ukraine would be a Western province of Russia, as it had been for the last four hundred years, and it could have been done legally, without firing a single shot. But Vladimir Putin is not Vlad the Terrible of your comic strips. He is a great procrastinator, a man who will do nothing if possible. He goes into action only if there is no way to postpone it. He took the Crimea, or rather accepted the Crimeans’ demand to join Russia, as he (correctly) thought his people would not forgive him for surrendering the peninsula with its main fleet base to NATO and the Russian population to the tender mercy of ferociously anti-Russian Western Ukrainian gangs.

My old Israeli friend and Russia watcher, Yakov Kedmi, the former head of an Israeli intelligence service, predicted in April 2014 that the Russian army would take East and South Ukraine before the May 2014 presidential elections in Ukraine. I dismissed that as a pipe dream. Putin will do nothing if he is given half a chance. I was right.

Putin acted in Georgia in 2008 only after his peace-keeping troops had been attacked by the NATO-trained troops of President Saakashvili, who famously said his army would take Moscow in a fortnight. Even then he did not take Tbilisi the capital, but quietly pulled his troops back.

Even such provocations as the removal of Russian war-time graves and memorials, as stripping ethnic Russians of their citizenship rights in the Baltics, did not force his hand.

ORDER IT NOW

The last thing he wanted was to quarrel with the United States. He approved of the US invasion of Afghanistan and opened his territory for the transit of the US troops and weapons. He approved the resolutions on Iraq before the US invasion; he spoke against the invasion only in tandem with France and Germany. He agreed (rather, abstained) on the West-sponsored resolution on Libya leading to the murder of Colonel Gadhafi. He gave up the Russian bases in Vietnam and Cuba. He withdrew his troops from Tarsus, his only naval base in Syria, and returned to Syria only in face of an imminent American attack on the sovereign state, at request of its legitimate leader.

The Western media presents Russia as a ferocious Rottweiler, and the Russians do not recognise themselves in the mirror of the Western media. Russia is a Newfoundland dog, not a Rottweiler. It is big, strong, peaceful and not aggressive. I know, I have had Newfoundlands. Even a very nasty cat can’t wake up their fighting spirit.

Ideologically, Putin’s Russia is not all that different from the West. March 8, Women’s Day, is an official holiday in Russia, and Russian women have all the rights their Western sisters have, or even dream of. Russian billionaires are free to build the biggest yachts in the known universe. They pay as little taxes as anybody, a flat income tax rate of 13%. Even Trump is unlikely to beat that.

Communism is dead, and the official propaganda machine daily tells Russians that the Soviet days were dreadful, in spite of the living generation’s tender memories of Soviet equality. Communists have no access to the mass media, despite being the second biggest party in Russia.

The small and unpopular pro-Western (say, Clintonesque) opposition receives a lot of government support. They are allowed to demonstrate, they have a TV and newspapers, while anti-Western opposition, whether Trumpist or Communist, has been kept in the cold, without demos and only marginal media.

White nationalists, a small band, are being jailed at the first anti-Semitic jibe. Jeremy Bedford-Turner of Russia would have been in jail a long time ago. Moscow has 92 synagogues for less than a thousand practicing Jews – they are staffed and manned by the imported American Rabbis of Habad. Best and the choicest pieces of Russian municipal land are given to synagogues and Jewish cultural centres for free.

Article 282 of the Russian Penal Code is as strict as ADL or SPLC activists would dream of. A big part of Unz.com articles, if published in Russia, would send their authors to jail. Russia has millions of immigrants; it is actually the third country in the world by the number of accepted immigrants. The majority of them are Muslim. Moscow has one of the biggest mosques in the world. Russia has a visa-free arrangement with many Muslim countries.

Russia’s connection with the Alt-Right is a figment of the imagination. The Alt-Right has its Russian counterpart, the well-known philosopher and student of Heidegger, Alexander Dugin and his followers. They are faring worse than the Alt-Right in the West. Dugin is often presented as “Putin’s adviser”, but he has never so much as met Putin tête-à-tête. Dugin supports Putin, but Putin does not support Dugin. The philosopher has been pushed out of Moscow State University, landed in a marginal internet TV channel, and it is rumoured he is even being pushed out of that channel. His views are less acceptable in Russia than those of Bannon are in the US.

ORDER IT NOW

RT, the Russian TV channel, news agency and site, is always cautious, like the BBC. Recently, an Alt-Right American of Russian origin, Nina Kouprianova, whose witty twitter has many followers, far from being a “Moscow Mouthpiece”, as the beastly Daily Beast claimed, had her articles removed from the RT site. Her full-blooded support for Putin did not help her at all. Dugin is not a frequent guest in the RT, or on any major Russian channel.

On the positive side, there is freedom of speech “like in the West”, and attacks on Putin and his Prime Minister Medvedev are a daily routine in the Russian media and in social networks. Just now a short documentary by Mr Navalny accusing Medvedev of corruption has received its six million views. Millions of Russians use Facebook, where Mr Mark Zuckerberg teaches them what can be said in the polite society and what can’t.

In short, sorry to disappoint you, Russia is wonderful, but it is not an enemy of the West even in its Obama-Clinton version. It just wants to proceed with its own speed. It did not and does not want to interfere with your ideas.

The unlikely stories of Russian hackers influencing American voters can be laid to rest after publication of Vault 7, a vast collection of CIA hacking devices, in particular of its Umbrage. The CIA has created a “fingerprint” that can be used by forensic investigators to attribute multiple different attacks to the same entity.

Wikileaks explained: “This is analogous to finding the same distinctive knife wound on multiple separate murder victims. The unique wounding style creates suspicion that a single murderer is responsible. As soon one murder in the set is solved then the other murders also find likely attribution. The CIA’s Remote Devices Branch’s UMBRAGE group collects and maintains a substantial library of attack techniques ‘stolen’ from malware produced in other states including the Russian Federation. With UMBRAGE and related projects the CIA cannot only increase its total number of attack types but also misdirect attribution by leaving behind the “fingerprints” of the groups that the attack techniques were stolen from”.

So much about “Russian fingerprints” allegedly found in the DNC email leak and other Trump-related leaks! Indeed there is not and can’t be any proof of who hacked what, but the presumption is that if some proofs are presented, they were made up by the CIA.

And this leads us to the real villain of the story, the US intelligence community. It became so powerful that it decided to lead the country, the US, and the world, while keeping democratic institutions as a sham cover.

It is they, not timid Putin’s Russia, that is leading the world to its final Armageddon. It is they who organised the Russian Scare. Now we know that President Trump is the last defender of the dying democratic order, while his enemies in the mass media are CIA stooges.

As nobody likes to be manipulated, I’ll tell you, American voters. You weren’t manipulated by the Russians. The other way round, you are the freest people in the world, and you had and used the unique opportunity to save your country and the entire world from being taken over by spooks. This job is far from over, and there is nobody who will do it for you, certainly not the Russian president.

ORDER IT NOW

Now, armed by this knowledge, you can support your president and disregard the CIA-produced propaganda. Now we have no doubt that the President Obama indeed listened and read every word said or written by Donald Trump and in his vicinity. Now we have no doubt that the mass media is just another hacking tool in the CIA collection created to hack the most precious computers: your minds and your hearts.

Israel Shamir can be reached at adam@israelshamir.net

This article was first published at The Unz Review.

 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: American Media, Deep State, Putin, Russia 
175 Comments to "The Russian Scare"
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  1. “A big part of Unz.com articles, if published in Russia, would send their authors to jail.”

    ROTFL.

    I’m just curious. Which Unz.com writer would end up in jail?

    Paul Craig Roberts? Pat Buchanan? Steve Sailer? Ilana Mercer? Philip Giraldi? Linh Dinh? Peter Lee?

    How come Shamir isn’t in jail? He’s written some of the most hard-hitting pieces?

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    • Replies: @Israel Shamir

    Which Unz.com writer would end up in jail?
     
    Anyone who writes things insulting or upsetting to blacks or Latinos, like saying they are of lower intelligence or that they are violent.

    How come Shamir isn’t in jail?
     
    God saved me meanwhile, I am lucky. I am more scared of German jail than of Russian.
    , @Wally
    So very USSR like, Amazon bans all books which scrutinize the 'holocau$t' .

    http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11010


    This is absolute confirmation that Revisionist scholars and informed, rationally minded Revisionist debaters have demolished the impossible '6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers'. There is no other way to explain it. The Zionist claims simply cannot withstand scrutiny and logical debate.
     
    The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that denies free speech and free inquiry?

    Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.

    , @Boris N
    If some do not believe that people in Russia are persecuted even for the smallest thoughtcrimes you can consult this:
    sova- center. ru/en/misuse/

    Although this "Sova Center" was purposely created by Jews to wage infowars against "anti-Semites" and "extremists" (read: any Russians who are too patriotic), and they are obviously a liberal organization with multicultural agenda, their reports are very interesting to see for what things people are persecuted today by the Russian thought police. Note that not every conviction for thoughtcrime is reported by them, because they report only what they think was "unfair" and they generally support persecution of thoughtcrimes per se, but even the selectively reported misuses are impressive. Obviously, Russia is a dreamland for SJWs. American Clintonite SJWs just have no idea they are bashing the country of their dreams.
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  2. Cyrano says:

    I agree with most of what this article says, except for one thing – that the spooks are taking over US, – they are only used to give the ridiculous propaganda about Russia a flavor of reality and even then it’s a tough sell. Donald Trump doesn’t even dare to call it by its traditional name – propaganda – he had to invent a new term – “fake news”, because it’s too hard for any administration to admit that America has ever, or is at present using propaganda, but that’s what it is, no matter how you call it.

    When this whole thing collapses under its own weight of complete nonsense, CIA will be blamed again for producing “faulty intelligence”, like they were blamed after the Iraq fiasco. There never was a faulty intelligence, CIA only produced it after some serious arm twisting from Rumsfeld and Cheney.

    CIA can do many things, but it can’t make political decisions. It can deliver amazingly accurate intelligence assessments, but it can’t decide how they will be used. Quite often the politicians intentionally misinterpret the intelligence gathered by CIA if it doesn’t fit their script. Basically the faulty intelligence is produced by the political overlords, not by CIA – because they simply lack the political power to defend themselves when they are used as scapegoats.

    Read More
    • Disagree: Kiza
    • Replies: @REDPILLED
    Please read these:

    The Devil's Chessboard: Allen Dulles, the CIA, and the Rise of America's Secret Government
    by David Talbot

    The CIA as Organized Crime: How Illegal Operations Corrupt America and the World
    by Douglas Valentine
    , @CalDre
    The CIA is, and for a long time has been, the world's leading terrorist organization. But that is on the operations side.

    On the intelligence side, it is true that a good number of the analysts are decent people (though many aren't - and even the "decent" ones are generally as brainwashed about who is "good" and "evil" in the world, and hence whom to believe or not believe in case of conflicting information, that even their sincere efforts to do good end up doing a great deal of evil). But the analysts don't write the intelligence briefings or generate the propaganda - that is left to the political branch (the CIA director and his political appointees), many of whom are neo-cons (Bolsheviks/Globalists) and few of whom are loyal either to the President or to the US.

    The entire problem with the CIA is that it is a secret organization, without oversight, that conducts wars (covertly and overtly, such as the drone programs), manipulates intelligence, and issues propaganda. It is the "deep state" and, essentially, a terrorist dictatorship.
  3. @Priss Factor
    "A big part of Unz.com articles, if published in Russia, would send their authors to jail."

    ROTFL.

    I'm just curious. Which Unz.com writer would end up in jail?

    Paul Craig Roberts? Pat Buchanan? Steve Sailer? Ilana Mercer? Philip Giraldi? Linh Dinh? Peter Lee?

    How come Shamir isn't in jail? He's written some of the most hard-hitting pieces?

    Which Unz.com writer would end up in jail?

    Anyone who writes things insulting or upsetting to blacks or Latinos, like saying they are of lower intelligence or that they are violent.

    How come Shamir isn’t in jail?

    God saved me meanwhile, I am lucky. I am more scared of German jail than of Russian.

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    • Replies: @Pachyderm Pachyderma
    Why would you be scared of German jails? Are they staffed by Israelis?
    , @Priss Factor
    LOL.

    It goes to show that POWER is the decisive factor.

    An organization will defer to the Power even if it is hostile while dismissing(even abusing) the Powerless even if it is supportive.

    Jewish Americans, by and large, are anti-Russian, but they have the power. So, Russia goes out of its way not to offend American Jews even though American Jews piss all over Russia.
    But Nina Kouprianova and Alt Right people who defend Russia from globalism? They got no power and are of no consequence. So, they get ignored, or worse, even persecuted to appease the powerful Jews who rule America.

    Stalin was the same way. He knew Hitler was anti-Soviet. But Stalin feared Hitler and was willing to accommodate him, at least until Hitler decided to invade in 1941. Anything to avoid war with Germany. Stalin even beat up on fellow leftists who urged different tact with Hitler because he feared Hitler and wanted to avoid a war with Germany. Germany was consequential because it had the power even if its ideology was very anti-communist.

    In the end, power has consequence. If you are faced with a big strong person who hates you, you have to do things to ease the tension and goad him to be nicer. He can crush you. If a weakling stands up for you, he is of no value since he has no power. Also, if the big strong guy who hates you demands that you punch the weakling(who supports you), you do it to appease the big guy to avoid conflict.

    Way of power.

    Same way in the US. Alt Right is supportive of Trump, American Jews loathe him. But Trump defers to Jews and dismisses the Alt Right cuz they got power.

    Defer to the power that slaps you and slap the powerless that supports you.
    Power decides. It can decide live or die.

  4. JL says:

    In what alternative reality is Alexander Dugin Alt-Right?! He’s a Eurasianist who advocates for Muslims, Russians, and pretty much everyone else on the continent living in one big happy home. There are plenty of potential Alt-Right Russian counterparts I can think of, but Dugin is way on the other end of the spectrum.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    There's certainly some... intersectionalities between the Alt Right and Eurasianism, but ultimately, you are correct that they have little in common.

    Eurasianism is an multi-culturalist ideology first developed by Tsarist Orientalists with some layers from the European New Right. It is HBD illiterate and tends towards obscurantism.

    The Alt Right is the latest (primarily American) iteration of White Nationalism. It is HBD literate and much more humorous and dynamic.

    I do like Dugin, but it is pretty depressing that he is *the* face of Russian nationalism in the West.

    That said, I think Israel Shamir was commenting more on how even (by Western PC standards) ultimately very "tame" movements such as Eurasianism have little influence in Russia, whereas, say, Bannon is now Trump's advisor. (Though OTOH, I would also point out that Bannon isn't really Alt Right himself, and that Breitbart/"Tea Party +"-sphere's combination of nationalism plus state conservatism has its closest analogues in Russia to the "state nationalists," such as Rogozin/old Rodina party and the LDPR).
  5. Full disclosure: I’ve met with Russians. I met with a Russian this morning. She brought me coffee. Such crazy and dangerous things can occur in Moscow. I am afraid the CIA and NSA could take notice of this meeting, and then it can be used – even against you. “You have perused an article by Israel Shamir. Were you aware he had Russian contacts?”

    He has even met up with other UR contributors. It’s an entire spy ring down there!

    If Putin were just slightly similar to the fire-breathing image of himself in the Western media, the Ukraine would be a Western province of Russia, as it had been for the last four hundred years, and it could have been done legally, without firing a single shot.

    The Putler of Western imagination is actually a Putlet.

    https://twitter.com/unkawaiipigdog/status/829202380533153792

    A big part of Unz.com articles, if published in Russia, would send their authors to jail.

    I think that’s a bit of a stretch.

    Still, we can test this out experimentally: http://akarlin.ru/

    Moscow has one of the biggest mosques in the world. Russia has a visa-free arrangement with many Muslim countries.

    Though no sea of niqabs as in London. Still, we do need a wall.

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    • Replies: @Boris N

    Still, we can test this out experimentally: http://akarlin.ru/
     
    The Russian thought police is unpredictable, not to say erratic. They choose their victims randomly. Most probably you've just started and they has not yet found your site and no thoughtcrime cop has had a butthurt.

    BTW, do you use automatic translation? Your Russian, hm, not to say unpalatable, but sounds very, very foreign.
  6. Mr Shamir is largely correct.
    Most Unz readers know what’s going on with the US & Russia. US elites hate Russia because (crudely put) they simply will not bend-over for the US. And US elites will NOT tolerate equals, let alone a nation which acts like a sovereign nation. Russia is a very-very useful bogey man for those in the US military/industrial/
    intelligence complex. And, then along comes Trump with his sensible ideas about reducing tensions with Russia: KILL THE HERETIC !
    But really it was all so neat…2 birds with one stone ! Continue to amp up the fear & loathing on Russia, THEN, use that fear etc to de-legitimate & criminalise the legally elected executive headed by President Trump. BRILLIANT !
    And if the whole thing undermines US democracy, constitution, & institutions ? So what ! Elites have been doing similar for decades now !

    Read More
    • Replies: @Pandos
    US elite = Jew. Jews hate Russia.
    , @Jake
    In other words, the British Empire actually won the American Revolution, because the UA post-Lincoln moved toward becoming the British Empire of the Americas, which process was sent into overdrove by ardent Anglophile Wilson, the process leading to the US seamlessly taking over for London.
    , @Boris N

    US elites hate Russia because (crudely put) they simply will not bend-over for the US.
     
    But how does this agree with the fact that the Russian elites keep their money in the USA and buy things like luxury villas in Miami? Many have their children living in the USA, and some of children are US citizens (Lavrov's daughter, for example, who was born in NY). The Russian elites will not have to bend over, they already have.
  7. I met a lovely Russian girl in the ’90s who hailed from a Siberian town that was on my target list from my Cold War 1.0 military days. She got something of a laugh out of this commonality. Introduced me to a number of her schoolmates and townfolk, all of whom were very welcoming and warm. Declared me to have a Russian soul and plied me with vast quantities of vodka … no doubt to coax state secrets out of me, right? Anyway, I came away from meeting and knowing more than a few Russians over the years since with a greater appreciation of the people versus the Cold War propaganda we have been force-fed even to this day.

    We might ask why the muslims hate us after bombing them to oblivion in many places, and still we can’t grasp why, right now, there are pleny of Russians wondering why we hate them after they have pretty much given us everything we wanted,

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  8. fnn says:

    The Dems today are much worse than Joe McCarthy was:

    At today's Deputy AG hearing, every Dem senator (plus Graham) spent most or all of their time ranting about Russia. This is a true psychosis— Michael Tracey (@mtracey) March 8, 2017

    Read More
    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov

    The Dems today are much worse than Joe McCarthy was:
     
    It is across the whole "establishment" (deep state, elites etc.). Democrats are simply more smelly ones, I mean stink more. The whole thing is both disgusting and disturbing and the damage is irreparable.
  9. This quote appeared over at lewrockwell.com and I’d say it applies as well to politicians and “the system” including Trump, the banksters, and the military.

    “The press is a gang of cruel faggots. Journalism is not a profession or a trade. It is a cheap catch-all for f**koffs and misfits—a false doorway to the backside of life, a filthy piss-ridden little hole nailed off by the building inspector, but just deep enough for a wino to curl up from the sidewalk and masturbate like a chimp in a zoo-cage.”

    – Hunter S. Thompson – Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas

    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2017/03/no_author/hades-going/

    Read More
  10. @JL
    In what alternative reality is Alexander Dugin Alt-Right?! He's a Eurasianist who advocates for Muslims, Russians, and pretty much everyone else on the continent living in one big happy home. There are plenty of potential Alt-Right Russian counterparts I can think of, but Dugin is way on the other end of the spectrum.

    There’s certainly some… intersectionalities between the Alt Right and Eurasianism, but ultimately, you are correct that they have little in common.

    Eurasianism is an multi-culturalist ideology first developed by Tsarist Orientalists with some layers from the European New Right. It is HBD illiterate and tends towards obscurantism.

    The Alt Right is the latest (primarily American) iteration of White Nationalism. It is HBD literate and much more humorous and dynamic.

    I do like Dugin, but it is pretty depressing that he is *the* face of Russian nationalism in the West.

    That said, I think Israel Shamir was commenting more on how even (by Western PC standards) ultimately very “tame” movements such as Eurasianism have little influence in Russia, whereas, say, Bannon is now Trump’s advisor. (Though OTOH, I would also point out that Bannon isn’t really Alt Right himself, and that Breitbart/”Tea Party +”-sphere’s combination of nationalism plus state conservatism has its closest analogues in Russia to the “state nationalists,” such as Rogozin/old Rodina party and the LDPR).

    Read More
    • Replies: @joe webb
    Aha! From the horse's mouth himself...."I do like Dugin"...Karlin the whacko Duginist.

    I suggest that folks just do a short review of Dugin, maybe by wiki ing him. National Bolshevism, a kind of warmed-over Stalinism.

    All the "nationalities", actually ethnys, United in their Diversity and the rest of the commie-think of yesteryear as well as today's even more lunatic.. Karlin is a neo-communist and Turkic phenotype type.

    I suppose Shamir and he would get along just fine, although Karlin would have to get out his Humanity to accept the potemkin village of Sharmir's Christianity.

    Karlin is the only writer here who has "banned" me from his columns. Communist No Free Speech for Racists! and anyone who criticizes the oracle from wherever. Crack!! goes the whip and the communist bullet to the back of the head.

    I would like to hear these guys talk about Solzhenitsyn ....that would be good for a laugh.

    Joe Webb
    , @Anon
    "That said, I think Israel Shamir was commenting more on how even (by Western PC standards) ultimately very “tame” movements such as Eurasianism have little influence in Russia, whereas, say, Bannon is now Trump’s advisor. "


    There's a paradox.

    Blatantly Alt-rightist views are frowned upon by Russian authorities, BUT Russian system, values, and power are more aligned with Alt-Rightism.

    But then, Russians have a Byzantine mindset. They say one thing but do another. That is how Putin rose to power. Serving Yeltsin and globalists but doing something else and leading Russia down a different path.

    So, even though Russia overtly suppresses Alt-Rightishness more than it happens in America, it covertly practices a kind of power that is more aligned with Alt Right vision of national sovereignty, resistance to Anglo-Zionist globalism, opposition to homo agenda(as proxy of globalist imperialism), respect for tradition, defense of manhood, national pride, Russian heritage, and etc.

    Indeed, if America was ruled by someone like Putin, it would be far more appealing to Alt Right.

    So, Alt Right has more overt voice in the US than in Russia, but Alt-rightishness has more covert implementation in Russia.

    Indeed, one reason why Putin suppresses overt nationalism is because he wants to keep it. He knows he has to keep it respectable so that the world media can't smear Russia as 'hateful'.

    As for 'white nationalism', it has Nazi connotations in Russia, and it's easy to understand why 'far right' stuff would be offensive to Russians.
    Ukrainians, who suffered greatly under Russians and Jews during Bolshevik rule, tend to see Germans as the ones who helped them fight the commies.
    But anything associated with 'white nationalist nazi stuff' can only be anathema to true Russians who defended nation from Hitler.

    , @JL
    I suppose Eurasianism and Alt-Right intersect mostly, and perhaps most importantly, in the area of national sovereignty. Comparing Russian and US politics, though, is bound to create confusion.

    I'd note here that Sergei Glaziyev is also an advisor to Putin. Of course, he is not nearly as close to Putin as Bannon is to Trump, and considerably less influential. However, he is also much more Eurasian than Bannon is Alt-Right. It's not completely clear what his role is - to act as a bogeyman/lighting rod/troll, or if his advice is actually heard. He has held his position for quite a while, despite the Kremlin having to calm nerves on multiple occasions that Glaziyev's views are his own and not official policy. Perhaps he's being held in reserve in the event of a major geopolitical paradigm shift.
    , @Boris N

    it is pretty depressing that he is *the* face of Russian nationalism in the West.
     
    Plus it is obvious that Dugin is mentally ill, and I'm sure that the Western MSM deliberately have selected an insane man as a face of Russian nationalism in the West. The Western Right are gullible and believe their MSM that Dugin is indeed a personification of Russian nationalism. It reminds how the West over-represented insane Rasputin. The old trick. Dugin is today's Rasputin. Russians must always look insane. There are enough saner people who are more likely to be called Russian nationalists, but they are unknown in the West.

    The same with the Russian "liberal opposition". Only marginals and freaks are got the coverage by the Western MSM.
  11. Agent76 says:

    Jan 16, 2017 US military–industrial complex is willing to risk nuclear war with Russia

    Author and activist David Swanson discusses the anti-Russian media frenzy, attributing it to the Democrats’ desire to explain why Donald Trump won the presidential election without blaming the Democratic Party or the political establishment as a whole. He also addresses the geopolitical animosity toward Russia, spurred by war-profiteers.

    Read More
  12. Kiza says:

    Although not Russian, I could add a few to the list of Russian grievances against Putin, which Israel lists.

    Putin let Turkey shoot-down a Russian bomber on the Syrian side in a classical ambush and stupidly claimed that he was stabbed in the back (oh my God, is there anyone so stupid to turn his back on a Turk?), did nothing in return, even the terrorist leader who boasted of shooting the parachuting Russian pilot still walks freely through Istanbul.

    The Russian diplomats are being knocked off like clay pigeons around the World and again Putin does nothing, and so on.

    And so on, the point being that Putin’s customary inaction so often leads to unjustifiably good political outcomes for him that it appears that he simply suffers from a hot hand. But he is definitely nothing like the caricature Mr Evil that the Western Military Industrial Propaganda Complex paints him as.

    The ordinary Russians must be truly wondering who sucked the brains out of all these US zombie Congressmen and Senators blaming the master villain Putin and Russia for everything plus the leaking toilets in the DC bathrooms!

    PS. Some commenters obviously missed to comprehend the humor oriented literary exaggeration of the author.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Ximenes

    The Russian diplomats are being knocked off like clay pigeons around the World and again Putin does nothing, and so on.
     
    Just think if Russian leaders, the Tsar, and so on, had been wise and disciplined enough to avoid all provocations to enter the war against Germany in 1914. Sure they would have lost some "territories," but... no collapse of the state, no Bolshevik Revolution, no Lenin or Stalin, and probably no WWII.
  13. iffen says:

    White nationalists, a small band, are being jailed

    GoFundBail for AK!

    Read More
  14. The former deputy CIA director Mike Morell was on one of my local radio talk shows yesterday (03/08/17) saying that, while he could neither confirm nor deny the existence of the programs outlined in the Wikileaks dump, all Americans ought to be proud that their intelligence community had developed such techniques. Then he went on to say—completely unprompted and apropos of nothing, which shows to what degree he was angling to get this into the conversation just to make sure we wouldn’t miss it—that one of the must unfortunate pieces of fallout from the dump was that it seems to let Vladimir Putin off the hook for the hacking he’s been doing. This is truly sickening stuff.

    Here is the episode. The Morell interview, I think, begins in the second hour.

    https://www.iheart.com/show/139-Mandy-Connell/?episode_id=28034621

    Read More
    • Replies: @Agent76
    This he certainly cannot deny! Aug 9, 2016 Kill Russians, kill Iranians, scare Assad!

    Ex CIA deputy Mike Morell - Aug 8 - Charlie Rose

    https://youtu.be/UZK2FZGKAd0
    , @Kiza
    Disregarding the fact that Demoncrats are using all Wikileaks exposures to blame their favorite and usual suspect Russia, blaming someone who brings information to the public to divert attention from the facts revealed is also a new height of the old killing the messenger to divert attention from the message. This strategy is obviously working less and less well, working now only on the hardcore believers and the Soros-paid rioters.
  15. Andrei Martyanov [AKA "SmoothieX12"] says: • Website

    Putin is legalist, he always was. In the end, he is a lawyer by trade and his parallel life as lower-mid-level operative (operativnik) is hardly remarkable until his meteoric rise to the chair of FSB director. Despite wearing military epaulets and rank for a large part of his adult life, he was also removed pretty far from Soviet/Russian military and started to “get it” realistically only after his creature, Serdyukov, created such a mess that it required urgent, on the run, rethinking of the whole so called “reform”. The same goes for his economic views: lawyers and industry do not mix together very well.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Philip Owen
    Actually, he also spent time as an inward investment promoter in St Petersburg. His head is definitely Free Market but his heart seems to be protectionist. He spent a lot of time visiting factories as PM. Medvedev seems to have a more visceral understanding of Free Trade and the macro economics of business in general.
  16. Andrei Martyanov [AKA "SmoothieX12"] says: • Website
    @fnn
    The Dems today are much worse than Joe McCarthy was:

    At today's Deputy AG hearing, every Dem senator (plus Graham) spent most or all of their time ranting about Russia. This is a true psychosis— Michael Tracey (@mtracey) March 8, 2017
     

    The Dems today are much worse than Joe McCarthy was:

    It is across the whole “establishment” (deep state, elites etc.). Democrats are simply more smelly ones, I mean stink more. The whole thing is both disgusting and disturbing and the damage is irreparable.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Kiza

    the damage is irreparable
     
    This is truly the key point. It is not like a Democratic Party president or Pence could replace Trump tomorrow and everything goes back to DC business as usual: more color revolutions, more kinetic action, more droning etc. The US political system has been exposed as broken and all trust has been sucked out of it. The US just needs a thirties style stock market crash and/or a chain collapse of banks to suck the trust out of the financial system as well. Then nothing will be left standing.
  17. Agent76 says:
    @Intelligent Dasein
    The former deputy CIA director Mike Morell was on one of my local radio talk shows yesterday (03/08/17) saying that, while he could neither confirm nor deny the existence of the programs outlined in the Wikileaks dump, all Americans ought to be proud that their intelligence community had developed such techniques. Then he went on to say---completely unprompted and apropos of nothing, which shows to what degree he was angling to get this into the conversation just to make sure we wouldn't miss it---that one of the must unfortunate pieces of fallout from the dump was that it seems to let Vladimir Putin off the hook for the hacking he's been doing. This is truly sickening stuff.

    Here is the episode. The Morell interview, I think, begins in the second hour.

    https://www.iheart.com/show/139-Mandy-Connell/?episode_id=28034621

    This he certainly cannot deny! Aug 9, 2016 Kill Russians, kill Iranians, scare Assad!

    Ex CIA deputy Mike Morell – Aug 8 – Charlie Rose

    Read More
    • Replies: @JamesG
    @Agent76

    Morell was a favorite of Hillary.

    He would have been DefSec or CIA head or Security Council.

    But the left claims Trump is dangerous.
  18. Kiza says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    The Dems today are much worse than Joe McCarthy was:
     
    It is across the whole "establishment" (deep state, elites etc.). Democrats are simply more smelly ones, I mean stink more. The whole thing is both disgusting and disturbing and the damage is irreparable.

    the damage is irreparable

    This is truly the key point. It is not like a Democratic Party president or Pence could replace Trump tomorrow and everything goes back to DC business as usual: more color revolutions, more kinetic action, more droning etc. The US political system has been exposed as broken and all trust has been sucked out of it. The US just needs a thirties style stock market crash and/or a chain collapse of banks to suck the trust out of the financial system as well. Then nothing will be left standing.

    Read More
  19. Pandos says:
    @animalogic
    Mr Shamir is largely correct.
    Most Unz readers know what's going on with the US & Russia. US elites hate Russia because (crudely put) they simply will not bend-over for the US. And US elites will NOT tolerate equals, let alone a nation which acts like a sovereign nation. Russia is a very-very useful bogey man for those in the US military/industrial/
    intelligence complex. And, then along comes Trump with his sensible ideas about reducing tensions with Russia: KILL THE HERETIC !
    But really it was all so neat...2 birds with one stone ! Continue to amp up the fear & loathing on Russia, THEN, use that fear etc to de-legitimate & criminalise the legally elected executive headed by President Trump. BRILLIANT !
    And if the whole thing undermines US democracy, constitution, & institutions ? So what ! Elites have been doing similar for decades now !

    US elite = Jew. Jews hate Russia.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Agent76
    You overlooked these folks. 25.12. 2015 NATO: Seeking Russia’s Destruction Since 1949

    In 1990, after the fall of the Berlin Wall, U.S. president George H. W. Bush through his secretary of state James Baker promised Soviet premier Mikhail Gorbachev that in exchange for Soviet cooperation on German reunification, the Cold War era NATO alliance would not expand “one inch” eastwards towards Russia.

    http://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2015/12/25/nato-seeking-russia-destruction-since-1949.html
    , @Cheburashka
    Correct.

    There are many reasons as to why Jews hate Russia, but it all goes back to one thing: Russia is the land from which The Protocols of the Elders of Zion originated. Jews see that as the ultimate affront against them and perhaps the worst single instance of "anti-semitism" (outside the Holocaust).
  20. Greg Bacon says: • Website

    What most of us dumbass Americans can’t or don’t understand is that Russia has had TWO World Wars in their front yard.
    The first brought about massive upheaval, the murder of the Czar and his family and the takeover of the People’s February 1917 Revolution by Bolshevik Jews in October, which led to the eventual murder of some 60 million Russians, most of whom wanted nothing to do with godless Communism, so they got a bullet to the back of the head.

    Then came WW II. Over 27 million Russians died in that war and if not for her sacrifice, most of Europe would probably be speaking German.

    Those wars are burnt into the Russian psyche and they will not be bullied or backed into a corner nor be made a bitch of the neoCON and Zionist war mongers. They will defend their land and people and Americans need to understand that before the idiots in DC provoke a nuclear WW III.

    Read More
    • Replies: @tomgreg
    Correct. And they'll fight to the last man (person) if need be.
  21. Agent76 says:
    @Pandos
    US elite = Jew. Jews hate Russia.

    You overlooked these folks. 25.12. 2015 NATO: Seeking Russia’s Destruction Since 1949

    In 1990, after the fall of the Berlin Wall, U.S. president George H. W. Bush through his secretary of state James Baker promised Soviet premier Mikhail Gorbachev that in exchange for Soviet cooperation on German reunification, the Cold War era NATO alliance would not expand “one inch” eastwards towards Russia.

    http://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2015/12/25/nato-seeking-russia-destruction-since-1949.html

    Read More
  22. joe webb says:
    @Anatoly Karlin
    There's certainly some... intersectionalities between the Alt Right and Eurasianism, but ultimately, you are correct that they have little in common.

    Eurasianism is an multi-culturalist ideology first developed by Tsarist Orientalists with some layers from the European New Right. It is HBD illiterate and tends towards obscurantism.

    The Alt Right is the latest (primarily American) iteration of White Nationalism. It is HBD literate and much more humorous and dynamic.

    I do like Dugin, but it is pretty depressing that he is *the* face of Russian nationalism in the West.

    That said, I think Israel Shamir was commenting more on how even (by Western PC standards) ultimately very "tame" movements such as Eurasianism have little influence in Russia, whereas, say, Bannon is now Trump's advisor. (Though OTOH, I would also point out that Bannon isn't really Alt Right himself, and that Breitbart/"Tea Party +"-sphere's combination of nationalism plus state conservatism has its closest analogues in Russia to the "state nationalists," such as Rogozin/old Rodina party and the LDPR).

    Aha! From the horse’s mouth himself….”I do like Dugin”…Karlin the whacko Duginist.

    I suggest that folks just do a short review of Dugin, maybe by wiki ing him. National Bolshevism, a kind of warmed-over Stalinism.

    All the “nationalities”, actually ethnys, United in their Diversity and the rest of the commie-think of yesteryear as well as today’s even more lunatic.. Karlin is a neo-communist and Turkic phenotype type.

    I suppose Shamir and he would get along just fine, although Karlin would have to get out his Humanity to accept the potemkin village of Sharmir’s Christianity.

    Karlin is the only writer here who has “banned” me from his columns. Communist No Free Speech for Racists! and anyone who criticizes the oracle from wherever. Crack!! goes the whip and the communist bullet to the back of the head.

    I would like to hear these guys talk about Solzhenitsyn ….that would be good for a laugh.

    Joe Webb

    Read More
    • Replies: @Israel Shamir
    I did not know I could ban you, for otherwise I'd do it long time ago. I'll ask Anatol how to. And I would not miss your comments, either: they are all saying Race and Jews. I agree these are important and interesting topics, vide Kevin McDonald, but you have nothing to say, just to repeat Race and Jews, like Pretty Polly. And I do not like that you insult my fellow scribe, either. Try to understand: in Russia, no separation of native ethnic units can be achieved without destroying Russia. Russian or Eurasian multiculturalism is very different from European or NorthAmerican. All these cultures and subcultures are native and coexisted for centuries. They know how to live together, and they do not need your, Mr Webb, advice.
    , @Anatoly Karlin
    Reminder of why I banned you:

    I have no problem with your “criticism,” since it is more amusing to me than anything else – at least, on the rare occasion that you manage to eke out a coherent sentence or two (for instance, your theories on my Turanid origins). No, my problem is that hosting your “insights” is not a good use of my blog comments’ real estate, since you are not only exceedingly stupid but also very verbose. Please, pick one or the other – that is, long clever comments, or short stupid ones – but not both. And then I might approve them.
     
    Your response here, for instance, is an excellent example of that. I made it pretty clear here that I don't have a particularly high opinion of Eurasianism, which somehow translated into me becoming a "whacko Duginist," a "neo-communist," and even a "Turkic phenotype type" (though it's a shame you forgot to mention your favorite, "oriental despot").

    Solshenitzyn was a good writer and a great man.
  23. After having read this article, I have a better understanding of Putin’s reactions or lack of reaction to the numerous provocations.
    But knowing this is not helping to foretell the outcome of the Syrian crisis.
    In Syria Putin is fighting with Syria, Iran and the Hezbollah to restore Syria’s sovereingty .
    Against Syria the other coalition is involving the terrorists, Turkey, the US, Israel, KSA and Qatar.
    Peace in Syria can be restored only with the departure of all the countries having invaded Syria.
    If Putin let the US partition Syria (Kurdish state in the north and Israel in Golan), it will be a message to Israel and the US that Russia will do nothing to prevent them from attacking Iran.

    Overall it means that if Russia and Putin are not aggressive, you cannot count on them to stand-up against the New World Order and pretty soon the Middle-East is going to explode.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Israel Shamir
    Russia and Putin are not aggressive, but stubborn enough to have it their way. Try to move a Newfoundland dog against his will, it will pull you far enough in the opposite direction. As for Syria and Middle East, wait for my next piece.
  24. JamesG says:
    @Agent76
    This he certainly cannot deny! Aug 9, 2016 Kill Russians, kill Iranians, scare Assad!

    Ex CIA deputy Mike Morell - Aug 8 - Charlie Rose

    https://youtu.be/UZK2FZGKAd0

    Morell was a favorite of Hillary.

    He would have been DefSec or CIA head or Security Council.

    But the left claims Trump is dangerous.

    Read More
  25. @Pandos
    US elite = Jew. Jews hate Russia.

    Correct.

    There are many reasons as to why Jews hate Russia, but it all goes back to one thing: Russia is the land from which The Protocols of the Elders of Zion originated. Jews see that as the ultimate affront against them and perhaps the worst single instance of “anti-semitism” (outside the Holocaust).

    Read More
    • Replies: @Pandos
    Wrong per Jewish Virtual Library.

    During the Dreyfus case of 1893­1895, agents of the Okhrana in Paris redacted the earlier works of Joly and Goedsche into a new edition which they called the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion." The manuscript of the Protocols was brought to Russia in 1895 and was printed privately in 1897.

    Russians have far greater justification for hating the Jews.

    And the Holocaust story is falling apart.
  26. tomgreg says:
    @Greg Bacon
    What most of us dumbass Americans can't or don't understand is that Russia has had TWO World Wars in their front yard.
    The first brought about massive upheaval, the murder of the Czar and his family and the takeover of the People's February 1917 Revolution by Bolshevik Jews in October, which led to the eventual murder of some 60 million Russians, most of whom wanted nothing to do with godless Communism, so they got a bullet to the back of the head.

    Then came WW II. Over 27 million Russians died in that war and if not for her sacrifice, most of Europe would probably be speaking German.

    Those wars are burnt into the Russian psyche and they will not be bullied or backed into a corner nor be made a bitch of the neoCON and Zionist war mongers. They will defend their land and people and Americans need to understand that before the idiots in DC provoke a nuclear WW III.

    Correct. And they’ll fight to the last man (person) if need be.

    Read More
  27. Israel Shamir

    You are presenting the Putin Liberal version of Russia for international consumption…World Cup COMMING up you know!!!!

    But what do real Russians think…Do they want a muzzie-negro demographic time bomb in Mother Russia. My suspicion is that Nina’s point of view is point of view of real authentic Russians…Are Russian Men as cucked as Swedish and Norwegian “Men”…Comrades Smoothie and Anatoly feel free to jump in.

    Dear POR PUTIN

    You can have all our Mexican Beaners…Negros…Fifth Column Chinese and Hindus…show the world how tolerant you are in time for the World Cup!!!!!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Pachyderm Pachyderma
    You can rejoice... Two, 'Fifth Columnists Hindus' have been killed and two have been wounded in recent days. You have an enormous impact on the 'hardly thinking!'
  28. @joe webb
    Aha! From the horse's mouth himself...."I do like Dugin"...Karlin the whacko Duginist.

    I suggest that folks just do a short review of Dugin, maybe by wiki ing him. National Bolshevism, a kind of warmed-over Stalinism.

    All the "nationalities", actually ethnys, United in their Diversity and the rest of the commie-think of yesteryear as well as today's even more lunatic.. Karlin is a neo-communist and Turkic phenotype type.

    I suppose Shamir and he would get along just fine, although Karlin would have to get out his Humanity to accept the potemkin village of Sharmir's Christianity.

    Karlin is the only writer here who has "banned" me from his columns. Communist No Free Speech for Racists! and anyone who criticizes the oracle from wherever. Crack!! goes the whip and the communist bullet to the back of the head.

    I would like to hear these guys talk about Solzhenitsyn ....that would be good for a laugh.

    Joe Webb

    I did not know I could ban you, for otherwise I’d do it long time ago. I’ll ask Anatol how to. And I would not miss your comments, either: they are all saying Race and Jews. I agree these are important and interesting topics, vide Kevin McDonald, but you have nothing to say, just to repeat Race and Jews, like Pretty Polly. And I do not like that you insult my fellow scribe, either. Try to understand: in Russia, no separation of native ethnic units can be achieved without destroying Russia. Russian or Eurasian multiculturalism is very different from European or NorthAmerican. All these cultures and subcultures are native and coexisted for centuries. They know how to live together, and they do not need your, Mr Webb, advice.

    Read More
    • Replies: @War for Blair Mountain
    Israel Shamir

    I am asking you a specific question about demographics:are ethnic Russians concerned about a possible Muslim demographic time bomb? How would they react to it?
    , @iffen
    I did not know I could ban you, for otherwise I’d do it long time ago. I’ll ask Anatol how to.

    Sailer, AK, and Razib (before his departure) control their respective comment sections. I think Giraldi does but I am not sure.

    You will need to take it up with R. Unz, although you should note that the last writer that took up the subject is no longer with us.

    no separation of native ethnic units can be achieved without destroying Russia.

    You might want to try and splain this to AK.

    Please watch out for AK, he gives the impression that he wants to get out and play in the streets.

  29. @Jean de Peyrelongue
    After having read this article, I have a better understanding of Putin's reactions or lack of reaction to the numerous provocations.
    But knowing this is not helping to foretell the outcome of the Syrian crisis.
    In Syria Putin is fighting with Syria, Iran and the Hezbollah to restore Syria's sovereingty .
    Against Syria the other coalition is involving the terrorists, Turkey, the US, Israel, KSA and Qatar.
    Peace in Syria can be restored only with the departure of all the countries having invaded Syria.
    If Putin let the US partition Syria (Kurdish state in the north and Israel in Golan), it will be a message to Israel and the US that Russia will do nothing to prevent them from attacking Iran.

    Overall it means that if Russia and Putin are not aggressive, you cannot count on them to stand-up against the New World Order and pretty soon the Middle-East is going to explode.

    Russia and Putin are not aggressive, but stubborn enough to have it their way. Try to move a Newfoundland dog against his will, it will pull you far enough in the opposite direction. As for Syria and Middle East, wait for my next piece.

    Read More
  30. @Israel Shamir
    I did not know I could ban you, for otherwise I'd do it long time ago. I'll ask Anatol how to. And I would not miss your comments, either: they are all saying Race and Jews. I agree these are important and interesting topics, vide Kevin McDonald, but you have nothing to say, just to repeat Race and Jews, like Pretty Polly. And I do not like that you insult my fellow scribe, either. Try to understand: in Russia, no separation of native ethnic units can be achieved without destroying Russia. Russian or Eurasian multiculturalism is very different from European or NorthAmerican. All these cultures and subcultures are native and coexisted for centuries. They know how to live together, and they do not need your, Mr Webb, advice.

    Israel Shamir

    I am asking you a specific question about demographics:are ethnic Russians concerned about a possible Muslim demographic time bomb? How would they react to it?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Israel Shamir
    There are not so many Muslims in Russia to make it a problem, Russians were unhappy with gastarbeiters, but now they are not all that plentiful anyway. For sure nobody likes influx of foreigners; however, they came from the areas that once were parts of Russia (USSR), so they are not completely foreign. There are people who feel strongly about it, but it seems that this thing is more or less over, or declining. As ruble went down, so the gastarbeiters went home.
  31. iffen says:
    @Israel Shamir
    I did not know I could ban you, for otherwise I'd do it long time ago. I'll ask Anatol how to. And I would not miss your comments, either: they are all saying Race and Jews. I agree these are important and interesting topics, vide Kevin McDonald, but you have nothing to say, just to repeat Race and Jews, like Pretty Polly. And I do not like that you insult my fellow scribe, either. Try to understand: in Russia, no separation of native ethnic units can be achieved without destroying Russia. Russian or Eurasian multiculturalism is very different from European or NorthAmerican. All these cultures and subcultures are native and coexisted for centuries. They know how to live together, and they do not need your, Mr Webb, advice.

    I did not know I could ban you, for otherwise I’d do it long time ago. I’ll ask Anatol how to.

    Sailer, AK, and Razib (before his departure) control their respective comment sections. I think Giraldi does but I am not sure.

    You will need to take it up with R. Unz, although you should note that the last writer that took up the subject is no longer with us.

    no separation of native ethnic units can be achieved without destroying Russia.

    You might want to try and splain this to AK.

    Please watch out for AK, he gives the impression that he wants to get out and play in the streets.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin

    ... although you should note that the last writer that took up the subject is no longer with us
     
    JayMan? I think he's too busy with work and family writers now, but he does still contribute on occasion - presumably, that excludes any falling out with Unz.

    You might want to try and splain this to AK.
     
    Where have I advocated separatism, or even the (very tame) "Stop Feeding the Caucasus"?

    The political demands of mainstream Russian nationalists are rather modest: The end of autonomous ethnocracies on the territory of the Russian Federation (e.g. a return to the guberniya system that existed under Tsarism), the end of mass immigration from Central Asia, an end to the legal privileges accorded to certain Caucasian ethnicities, and an end to prosecutions for political thoughtcrime (Article 282). Maybe even personal firearms legalization, in a century or two.

  32. @Israel Shamir

    Which Unz.com writer would end up in jail?
     
    Anyone who writes things insulting or upsetting to blacks or Latinos, like saying they are of lower intelligence or that they are violent.

    How come Shamir isn’t in jail?
     
    God saved me meanwhile, I am lucky. I am more scared of German jail than of Russian.

    Why would you be scared of German jails? Are they staffed by Israelis?

    Read More
  33. @War for Blair Mountain
    Israel Shamir

    You are presenting the Putin Liberal version of Russia for international consumption...World Cup COMMING up you know!!!!

    But what do real Russians think...Do they want a muzzie-negro demographic time bomb in Mother Russia. My suspicion is that Nina's point of view is point of view of real authentic Russians...Are Russian Men as cucked as Swedish and Norwegian "Men"...Comrades Smoothie and Anatoly feel free to jump in.

    Dear POR PUTIN

    You can have all our Mexican Beaners...Negros...Fifth Column Chinese and Hindus...show the world how tolerant you are in time for the World Cup!!!!!

    You can rejoice… Two, ‘Fifth Columnists Hindus’ have been killed and two have been wounded in recent days. You have an enormous impact on the ‘hardly thinking!’

    Read More
    • Replies: @War for Blair Mountain
    Since you raised the issue of vi0lence...What do you think the H1B...L1 B Visa Program is?...and who are its victims?

    The real issue is this: you don't want the Native Born White American Working Class to notice who is voting then into a violently persecuted racial minority on Nov 8 2020..

    And as other people have noticed, that the names of those arrested in ANTIFA racial assaults against White Male Trump supporters.....lots of South Asian and Jewish names...
  34. @joe webb
    Aha! From the horse's mouth himself...."I do like Dugin"...Karlin the whacko Duginist.

    I suggest that folks just do a short review of Dugin, maybe by wiki ing him. National Bolshevism, a kind of warmed-over Stalinism.

    All the "nationalities", actually ethnys, United in their Diversity and the rest of the commie-think of yesteryear as well as today's even more lunatic.. Karlin is a neo-communist and Turkic phenotype type.

    I suppose Shamir and he would get along just fine, although Karlin would have to get out his Humanity to accept the potemkin village of Sharmir's Christianity.

    Karlin is the only writer here who has "banned" me from his columns. Communist No Free Speech for Racists! and anyone who criticizes the oracle from wherever. Crack!! goes the whip and the communist bullet to the back of the head.

    I would like to hear these guys talk about Solzhenitsyn ....that would be good for a laugh.

    Joe Webb

    Reminder of why I banned you:

    I have no problem with your “criticism,” since it is more amusing to me than anything else – at least, on the rare occasion that you manage to eke out a coherent sentence or two (for instance, your theories on my Turanid origins). No, my problem is that hosting your “insights” is not a good use of my blog comments’ real estate, since you are not only exceedingly stupid but also very verbose. Please, pick one or the other – that is, long clever comments, or short stupid ones – but not both. And then I might approve them.

    Your response here, for instance, is an excellent example of that. I made it pretty clear here that I don’t have a particularly high opinion of Eurasianism, which somehow translated into me becoming a “whacko Duginist,” a “neo-communist,” and even a “Turkic phenotype type” (though it’s a shame you forgot to mention your favorite, “oriental despot”).

    Solshenitzyn was a good writer and a great man.

    Read More
    • Replies: @utu
    "Solshenitzyn was a good writer and a great man."

    Agree! One of the greatest.
    , @joe webb
    perhaps I don't remember correctly, but I recall that your photograph (?) with a hat on as I recall, stands in marked contrast to your drawing of yourself. Leaving your ego out of it, again, if I recall accurately, your photograph shows a phenotypic Turkic Type. I also may or may not recall correctly that you are from lower Russia, as in the neighborhood of Asia Minor, thus reinforcing my correct , or incorrect, sense of your ethnic origins.

    Your insults are amusing, just part of your orientally despotic tendencies. Your usage of "real estate" to characterize your blog...a proprietary view of your blog, as in nobody gets to challenge you cuz it is 'yours'. More despotism. Speech, free that is...is in the public domain, and it is not yours, as in a child's petty despotism...Mine!

    The classic liberal tradition in the West, of which you are dimly aware I guess, takes the position that Free Speech is not proprietary. Sort of like a tee-shirt with a message on it. Does the wearer of such tee-shirt have the right Not to get some feedback from his public message?

    Your banning me is the equivalent of the tee-shirt wearer getting his shorts in a knot because someone challenged his message. Etc. Soon, it will come as Hate Speech, to tell a Social Justice Warrior that he is full of shit. I am surprised that you have not hit upon that one. Joe Webb is Hater and must be banned.

    Harry Truman: if you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen. You and Shamir cannot stand the heat of debate. To the Slammer! or the bullet administered by the State. Or Banning, or Exile.

    Why don't you post your photo and your drawing again? Then, not only will my memory be corrected or not, but your self-presentation will be out there for all to see. Ego on parade, and a compleat self-perception widely out of whack with actuality.

    Ancient Greece and Rome, and then Germany , were the birthplace of Free Speech, equality before the law, not social equality and so on. Russia never seems to have come up with even liberalism.
    And the Greeks and Romans were basically what we would call northern germanic types. Age old struggle between the North and the South in Europe.

    Russians are odd characters here in the US. The only Russian I know here, is a 30 year old gal who when i asked her about all of this, she said, "we are pirates." Shamir is a jew, and you might be a Turkic type. South. You have not denied it, so please clear this up. No jew every invented free speech, and no Russian or Turkic type ever did so either. You guys are in the undistinguished company of the whole Third World darkie types who never invented civil liberties. You folks did not do so cuz you lack genetic civility.

    Today, Europe is once again going to war along the North-South global border with the dummies in the South, etc, and the free speech types in the north, except for the current disease of racial equality among the worst of the Altruists...Germans and Swedes...and the Armies of the Light slowly building to counter the Southern Armies of the Night swarming. I read that there are about 6 million wretcheds massing in Turkey, etc. for the next assault. Camp of the Saints and all of that.

    I never hear either one of you talking about the March of Humanity Invasion. Like the de Maistre : Ihave heard of Russians, French, English, Germans, etc, but i never heard of a humanity.

    Dreamers Awake!

    Joe Webb

    You guys do not help my pro-Russian prejudices either.

    Joe Webb

  35. Pandos says:
    @Cheburashka
    Correct.

    There are many reasons as to why Jews hate Russia, but it all goes back to one thing: Russia is the land from which The Protocols of the Elders of Zion originated. Jews see that as the ultimate affront against them and perhaps the worst single instance of "anti-semitism" (outside the Holocaust).

    Wrong per Jewish Virtual Library.

    During the Dreyfus case of 1893­1895, agents of the Okhrana in Paris redacted the earlier works of Joly and Goedsche into a new edition which they called the “Protocols of the Elders of Zion.” The manuscript of the Protocols was brought to Russia in 1895 and was printed privately in 1897.

    Russians have far greater justification for hating the Jews.

    And the Holocaust story is falling apart.

    Read More
    • Replies: @CalDre

    Russians have far greater justification for hating the Jews.
     
    There is reason for mutual hate. Assuming Russian Jews are Khazars, there's the whole conquest/diaspora thing, the Pale of Settlements, the discrimination, the pogroms. Not that the Jews were not equally aggressive, just weaker. Until the Bolshevik Revolution, when the Jews got their revenge.

    As it goes if one goes back enough in time there's plenty of reason to hate, and also, if you look for it as hard, to love. It's just the reasons to hate have a tendency to get written down whilst the reasons to love, do not.

    And the Holocaust story is falling apart.
     
    It is? Jewlywood still makes about four Holohoax movies a year and Commie Merkel is still busy incarcerating those who conduct historical and scientific analysis of the Holohoax (as inevitably anyone serious about the truth of the matter will come to realize what a perverse hoax it is). Nobody observing the utter lack of evidence for the Holohoax, and the overwhelming evidence against it, is allowed to speak, have a job, or, in an ever-increasing list of countries, have their liberty (i.e., outside prison). So, please, do elaborate.
  36. joe webb says:

    Adam, the First Man, or have you dropped that appellation as too transparently egotistic?

    You and Karlin, both communists (I know you are a commie, but don’t know for sure about your compatriot). And your putative Christianity…the jew christian, well we had them a couple thousand years ago, but now? Another communist front dodge.

    So, is it to be, that the (two?) communists have me banned? O please. Not That!

    By the way, I know KM, and he too, like Richard Spencer, is a nazi, and the difference between us (KM) is basically only that. So maybe you might write him about that….you guys can have a duel.

    Your character was revealed to me by a day or two carting you around in the SF Bay Area a few years ago. You gave me a signed copy of The Iron Heel, by Jack London, when I took you up to his ranch in Sonoma Co. for your pilgrimage. Thank you.

    I read it. It is very revealing about your character. The Maximum Leader in The Iron Heel, is you, and that is why you love it. The Jew and The Communist Maximum Leader, the Leninist, in a word, is what you are.

    People should read The Iron Hell, if for no other reason than to know what kind of Heel is going to stomp us out if the Third World takes over. Your putative support for Trump is a joke, a fake, a me-too feint, to fool UR readers.

    ” They know how to live together, ” your comment about the Russian Diversity. How about the Chechens, and the breakaway muzzie states when the People’s Paradise folded? Seriously, please discuss Russian Diversity and maybe I will be convinced that the Southern Darkies in the US are Good for the USA, as well as myself.

    Comrade Webb.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    I know unironic real-life Nazis who would be embarrassed to be associated with you.
  37. utu says:
    @Anatoly Karlin
    Reminder of why I banned you:

    I have no problem with your “criticism,” since it is more amusing to me than anything else – at least, on the rare occasion that you manage to eke out a coherent sentence or two (for instance, your theories on my Turanid origins). No, my problem is that hosting your “insights” is not a good use of my blog comments’ real estate, since you are not only exceedingly stupid but also very verbose. Please, pick one or the other – that is, long clever comments, or short stupid ones – but not both. And then I might approve them.
     
    Your response here, for instance, is an excellent example of that. I made it pretty clear here that I don't have a particularly high opinion of Eurasianism, which somehow translated into me becoming a "whacko Duginist," a "neo-communist," and even a "Turkic phenotype type" (though it's a shame you forgot to mention your favorite, "oriental despot").

    Solshenitzyn was a good writer and a great man.

    “Solshenitzyn was a good writer and a great man.”

    Agree! One of the greatest.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Bill Jones
    His finest para, to my mind was
    "
    “And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?... The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation.... We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.”
    ― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn


    A lesson that, I fear will be learned shortly in the US.
  38. @Pachyderm Pachyderma
    You can rejoice... Two, 'Fifth Columnists Hindus' have been killed and two have been wounded in recent days. You have an enormous impact on the 'hardly thinking!'

    Since you raised the issue of vi0lence…What do you think the H1B…L1 B Visa Program is?…and who are its victims?

    The real issue is this: you don’t want the Native Born White American Working Class to notice who is voting then into a violently persecuted racial minority on Nov 8 2020..

    And as other people have noticed, that the names of those arrested in ANTIFA racial assaults against White Male Trump supporters…..lots of South Asian and Jewish names…

    Read More
    • Replies: @Pachyderm Pachyderma
    Why don't you list those Jewish and South Asian names here, lest people think you are not to be relied upon?
  39. utu says:

    “RT, the Russian TV channel, news agency and site, is always cautious, like the BBC. ”

    Too cautious. I follow RT and Sputnik and it seems that they do not have what is needed. They are too timid. Is it because they have scruples and higher standards? Or they don’t have what it takes to match Anglo-American media propaganda machine? It seems nobody can match the aggressiveness, innuendos, insinuations and fabrications of Anglo-American media? Germans became aware of their deficits in propaganda during WWII when it was too late. French when forced to confront hostile British press always are forced to throw a towel.

    It seems that Russians make the same mistake Germans did during WWII. They do not want to paint themselves as victims, as the weaker side and keep inflating their country’s abilities. Germans did not report how devastating bombings of the cities were while they should have done the opposite and exaggerate the damage. You want to win hearts and minds you must present yourself as a victim. Too much pride will hurt you and from pride there is just a tiny step to hubris that always leads to destruction.

    Read More
  40. joe webb says:
    @Anatoly Karlin
    Reminder of why I banned you:

    I have no problem with your “criticism,” since it is more amusing to me than anything else – at least, on the rare occasion that you manage to eke out a coherent sentence or two (for instance, your theories on my Turanid origins). No, my problem is that hosting your “insights” is not a good use of my blog comments’ real estate, since you are not only exceedingly stupid but also very verbose. Please, pick one or the other – that is, long clever comments, or short stupid ones – but not both. And then I might approve them.
     
    Your response here, for instance, is an excellent example of that. I made it pretty clear here that I don't have a particularly high opinion of Eurasianism, which somehow translated into me becoming a "whacko Duginist," a "neo-communist," and even a "Turkic phenotype type" (though it's a shame you forgot to mention your favorite, "oriental despot").

    Solshenitzyn was a good writer and a great man.

    perhaps I don’t remember correctly, but I recall that your photograph (?) with a hat on as I recall, stands in marked contrast to your drawing of yourself. Leaving your ego out of it, again, if I recall accurately, your photograph shows a phenotypic Turkic Type. I also may or may not recall correctly that you are from lower Russia, as in the neighborhood of Asia Minor, thus reinforcing my correct , or incorrect, sense of your ethnic origins.

    Your insults are amusing, just part of your orientally despotic tendencies. Your usage of “real estate” to characterize your blog…a proprietary view of your blog, as in nobody gets to challenge you cuz it is ‘yours’. More despotism. Speech, free that is…is in the public domain, and it is not yours, as in a child’s petty despotism…Mine!

    The classic liberal tradition in the West, of which you are dimly aware I guess, takes the position that Free Speech is not proprietary. Sort of like a tee-shirt with a message on it. Does the wearer of such tee-shirt have the right Not to get some feedback from his public message?

    Your banning me is the equivalent of the tee-shirt wearer getting his shorts in a knot because someone challenged his message. Etc. Soon, it will come as Hate Speech, to tell a Social Justice Warrior that he is full of shit. I am surprised that you have not hit upon that one. Joe Webb is Hater and must be banned.

    Harry Truman: if you can’t stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen. You and Shamir cannot stand the heat of debate. To the Slammer! or the bullet administered by the State. Or Banning, or Exile.

    Why don’t you post your photo and your drawing again? Then, not only will my memory be corrected or not, but your self-presentation will be out there for all to see. Ego on parade, and a compleat self-perception widely out of whack with actuality.

    Ancient Greece and Rome, and then Germany , were the birthplace of Free Speech, equality before the law, not social equality and so on. Russia never seems to have come up with even liberalism.
    And the Greeks and Romans were basically what we would call northern germanic types. Age old struggle between the North and the South in Europe.

    Russians are odd characters here in the US. The only Russian I know here, is a 30 year old gal who when i asked her about all of this, she said, “we are pirates.” Shamir is a jew, and you might be a Turkic type. South. You have not denied it, so please clear this up. No jew every invented free speech, and no Russian or Turkic type ever did so either. You guys are in the undistinguished company of the whole Third World darkie types who never invented civil liberties. You folks did not do so cuz you lack genetic civility.

    Today, Europe is once again going to war along the North-South global border with the dummies in the South, etc, and the free speech types in the north, except for the current disease of racial equality among the worst of the Altruists…Germans and Swedes…and the Armies of the Light slowly building to counter the Southern Armies of the Night swarming. I read that there are about 6 million wretcheds massing in Turkey, etc. for the next assault. Camp of the Saints and all of that.

    I never hear either one of you talking about the March of Humanity Invasion. Like the de Maistre : Ihave heard of Russians, French, English, Germans, etc, but i never heard of a humanity.

    Dreamers Awake!

    Joe Webb

    You guys do not help my pro-Russian prejudices either.

    Joe Webb

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Isn't private property part of the Western liberal tradition? Blogs are the private property of their authors. Private property implies being able to exclude people whose speech or company one doesn't like.
  41. @iffen
    I did not know I could ban you, for otherwise I’d do it long time ago. I’ll ask Anatol how to.

    Sailer, AK, and Razib (before his departure) control their respective comment sections. I think Giraldi does but I am not sure.

    You will need to take it up with R. Unz, although you should note that the last writer that took up the subject is no longer with us.

    no separation of native ethnic units can be achieved without destroying Russia.

    You might want to try and splain this to AK.

    Please watch out for AK, he gives the impression that he wants to get out and play in the streets.

    … although you should note that the last writer that took up the subject is no longer with us

    JayMan? I think he’s too busy with work and family writers now, but he does still contribute on occasion – presumably, that excludes any falling out with Unz.

    You might want to try and splain this to AK.

    Where have I advocated separatism, or even the (very tame) “Stop Feeding the Caucasus”?

    The political demands of mainstream Russian nationalists are rather modest: The end of autonomous ethnocracies on the territory of the Russian Federation (e.g. a return to the guberniya system that existed under Tsarism), the end of mass immigration from Central Asia, an end to the legal privileges accorded to certain Caucasian ethnicities, and an end to prosecutions for political thoughtcrime (Article 282). Maybe even personal firearms legalization, in a century or two.

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    the last writer

    Peter Frost

    Russian Federation

    Can we get your definition of what units should comprise this Federation? Don't leave any of the hard parts out.

    they came from the areas that once were parts of Russia (USSR), so they are not completely foreign. There are people who feel strongly about it, but it seems that this thing is more or less over

    BTW I read on the mir system, very interesting.

    , @KA
    There are still Russians in Kazakhstan and a few other Stans They have moved out and relocated to Russia proper But large number still live in Central Asia. Any thought on the language and religious rights of them?

    A wall could be a good idea separating Russian from C Asia. But ideas have consequences It gives rise to license to murder and downplay the significance of hatred . "political demands of mainstream Russian nationalists are rather modest: The end of autonomous ethnocracies on the territory of the Russian Federation" - They are not modest They are illegal if carried out without the consent of the autonomous ethnocracies .
    .
    , @5371
    The trouble is that, according to Putin himself, some of those demands can't be met because they would decrease Russia's geopolitical influence.
  42. @War for Blair Mountain
    Israel Shamir

    I am asking you a specific question about demographics:are ethnic Russians concerned about a possible Muslim demographic time bomb? How would they react to it?

    There are not so many Muslims in Russia to make it a problem, Russians were unhappy with gastarbeiters, but now they are not all that plentiful anyway. For sure nobody likes influx of foreigners; however, they came from the areas that once were parts of Russia (USSR), so they are not completely foreign. There are people who feel strongly about it, but it seems that this thing is more or less over, or declining. As ruble went down, so the gastarbeiters went home.

    Read More
    • Replies: @War for Blair Mountain
    Israel

    That's basically what I suspected about the situation in Russia.

    Now I have a question about the Mongolians. How do the ethnic Russians view the Mongolians?
  43. @Israel Shamir

    Which Unz.com writer would end up in jail?
     
    Anyone who writes things insulting or upsetting to blacks or Latinos, like saying they are of lower intelligence or that they are violent.

    How come Shamir isn’t in jail?
     
    God saved me meanwhile, I am lucky. I am more scared of German jail than of Russian.

    LOL.

    It goes to show that POWER is the decisive factor.

    An organization will defer to the Power even if it is hostile while dismissing(even abusing) the Powerless even if it is supportive.

    Jewish Americans, by and large, are anti-Russian, but they have the power. So, Russia goes out of its way not to offend American Jews even though American Jews piss all over Russia.
    But Nina Kouprianova and Alt Right people who defend Russia from globalism? They got no power and are of no consequence. So, they get ignored, or worse, even persecuted to appease the powerful Jews who rule America.

    Stalin was the same way. He knew Hitler was anti-Soviet. But Stalin feared Hitler and was willing to accommodate him, at least until Hitler decided to invade in 1941. Anything to avoid war with Germany. Stalin even beat up on fellow leftists who urged different tact with Hitler because he feared Hitler and wanted to avoid a war with Germany. Germany was consequential because it had the power even if its ideology was very anti-communist.

    In the end, power has consequence. If you are faced with a big strong person who hates you, you have to do things to ease the tension and goad him to be nicer. He can crush you. If a weakling stands up for you, he is of no value since he has no power. Also, if the big strong guy who hates you demands that you punch the weakling(who supports you), you do it to appease the big guy to avoid conflict.

    Way of power.

    Same way in the US. Alt Right is supportive of Trump, American Jews loathe him. But Trump defers to Jews and dismisses the Alt Right cuz they got power.

    Defer to the power that slaps you and slap the powerless that supports you.
    Power decides. It can decide live or die.

    Read More
    • Agree: Seamus Padraig
    • Replies: @alexander
    Interesting, Priss.

    What happens when the powerful commit a heinous crime for which YOU have the power to prosecute them, convict them, take all their assets and send them to federal prison ?

    Where does the power lie, then ?
  44. The issue is the “Great Game” as played by the British Empire against the strategic reality of the “Silk Road/One Belt”…thus destroy Russia and China, if not directly, through perpetual war and subversion, including the political castration of the mission of the United States.

    Here is the latest slug.

    https://larouchepac.com/20170309/whats-stake-obamabritish-coup-attempt-against-trump

    Read More
  45. iffen says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    ... although you should note that the last writer that took up the subject is no longer with us
     
    JayMan? I think he's too busy with work and family writers now, but he does still contribute on occasion - presumably, that excludes any falling out with Unz.

    You might want to try and splain this to AK.
     
    Where have I advocated separatism, or even the (very tame) "Stop Feeding the Caucasus"?

    The political demands of mainstream Russian nationalists are rather modest: The end of autonomous ethnocracies on the territory of the Russian Federation (e.g. a return to the guberniya system that existed under Tsarism), the end of mass immigration from Central Asia, an end to the legal privileges accorded to certain Caucasian ethnicities, and an end to prosecutions for political thoughtcrime (Article 282). Maybe even personal firearms legalization, in a century or two.

    the last writer

    Peter Frost

    Russian Federation

    Can we get your definition of what units should comprise this Federation? Don’t leave any of the hard parts out.

    they came from the areas that once were parts of Russia (USSR), so they are not completely foreign. There are people who feel strongly about it, but it seems that this thing is more or less over

    BTW I read on the mir system, very interesting.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin

    Peter Frost
     
    Well, that issue was rather different. Peter Frost got badly triggered and started deleting Unz's own comments to his blog posts. Not a great idea to do that to the guy who's website you're writing on! I assume Israel is more even-tempered. That issue later got resolved, though. According to his second to last post here, the reason Peter stopped blogging is because of his concern over Canada's new hate speech laws.

    Can we get your definition of what units should comprise this Federation?
     
    Well personally I (just like Ivan Ilyin, Putin's favorite philosopher) am personally opposed to the idea of a Russian Federation in general. A true federation only occurs organically, over many decades and even centuries, of progressive agreements between independent states to pool more and more of their sovereignty to a federal center (e.g. Switzerland, the US). Russia has *zero* such traditions. A federation on its territory makes no sense. It can only be anarchy of fiefdoms (1990s); a lie; or some schizophrenic hydrid of the two (the banal reality today).

    Dissolving this pseudo-federation and replacing it with a Russian national state will make your question mostly moot.

    But to answer it anyway, I do think Russia will be better off without Chechnya, Ingushetia, and probably Dagestan (though separation is politically unrealistic for any number of reasons). Belarus, North Kazakhstan, and most of the Ukraine should preferably be within Russia, or closely and inextricably integrated with the Russian world at a bare minimum.
  46. @Israel Shamir
    There are not so many Muslims in Russia to make it a problem, Russians were unhappy with gastarbeiters, but now they are not all that plentiful anyway. For sure nobody likes influx of foreigners; however, they came from the areas that once were parts of Russia (USSR), so they are not completely foreign. There are people who feel strongly about it, but it seems that this thing is more or less over, or declining. As ruble went down, so the gastarbeiters went home.

    Israel

    That’s basically what I suspected about the situation in Russia.

    Now I have a question about the Mongolians. How do the ethnic Russians view the Mongolians?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Israel Shamir
    I think, they view Mongolians favourably. Ditto Kazakh, Yakut, etc. I think the Russians prefer them to white people of Caucasus, to Armenians and Georgians etc. They never migrated much to inner Russia, until recently (Kyrgyz people moved in a lot last year or two)
  47. Here is a classic case of deferring to the Power(Big Potato) that opposes you while sidelining the relatively powerless(small potato).

    Your support has no value if you can’t back it with power.

    Suppose there is an elephant, a rhino, and warthog.

    Elephant is stronger than rhino which is stronger than warthog.

    Elephant hates the rhino, and warthog likes the rhino.

    Elephant can do much damage to the rhino, the warthog can’t do much for the rhino.

    So, rhino’s well-being depends on defusing the rage of the elephant that hates it than in summoning the support of the warthog that can’t offer it much support.
    Indeed, if the elephant tells the rhino, “I will maybe go easier on you if you kick the warthog”, the rhino may do just that.

    It’s how power works.

    Indeed, this was the weakness of American democracy. People voted for politicians, but the real power of money and influence was held by globalist elites. So, once elected, the GOP politicians did the bidding of globalists who really loathed them while betraying the voters who hung their hopes on them.

    Trump signaled differently. He said he would take on the Establishment, and that set off panic. The Establishment attacked him all out, and so Trump had to appease them by appointing mostly same old same old.

    Read More
  48. Ximenes says:
    @Kiza
    Although not Russian, I could add a few to the list of Russian grievances against Putin, which Israel lists.

    Putin let Turkey shoot-down a Russian bomber on the Syrian side in a classical ambush and stupidly claimed that he was stabbed in the back (oh my God, is there anyone so stupid to turn his back on a Turk?), did nothing in return, even the terrorist leader who boasted of shooting the parachuting Russian pilot still walks freely through Istanbul.

    The Russian diplomats are being knocked off like clay pigeons around the World and again Putin does nothing, and so on.

    And so on, the point being that Putin's customary inaction so often leads to unjustifiably good political outcomes for him that it appears that he simply suffers from a hot hand. But he is definitely nothing like the caricature Mr Evil that the Western Military Industrial Propaganda Complex paints him as.

    The ordinary Russians must be truly wondering who sucked the brains out of all these US zombie Congressmen and Senators blaming the master villain Putin and Russia for everything plus the leaking toilets in the DC bathrooms!

    PS. Some commenters obviously missed to comprehend the humor oriented literary exaggeration of the author.

    The Russian diplomats are being knocked off like clay pigeons around the World and again Putin does nothing, and so on.

    Just think if Russian leaders, the Tsar, and so on, had been wise and disciplined enough to avoid all provocations to enter the war against Germany in 1914. Sure they would have lost some “territories,” but… no collapse of the state, no Bolshevik Revolution, no Lenin or Stalin, and probably no WWII.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Kiza
    Do you really believe what you wrote!?!? Do wars happen only because of provocations? Without responding to provocations, there would be no WW1 and no WW2 !? Perhaps if the US launches the First (nuclear) Strike on Russia, Russia should not respond to this provocation because that would mean WW3? Has it ever occurred to you that if you do not respond to provocations, the provocateur will keep escalating provocations? Now this does not mean that one should respond to every provocation and in the way that the provocateur wants and expects. Putin may be smart to respond in his one way and at his own best moment.

    Which Mickey Mouse history did you study?

    , @Uebersetzer
    That is hindsight. What they were looking at in 1914 was Serbia, a Balkan client of theirs, about to get invaded by Austria-Hungary. Another client, Bulgaria, had already slipped into the German orbit and would later join the Central Powers. The system of alliances in place in 1914 made war inevitable. It is surprising it did not happen earlier.
  49. @iffen
    the last writer

    Peter Frost

    Russian Federation

    Can we get your definition of what units should comprise this Federation? Don't leave any of the hard parts out.

    they came from the areas that once were parts of Russia (USSR), so they are not completely foreign. There are people who feel strongly about it, but it seems that this thing is more or less over

    BTW I read on the mir system, very interesting.

    Peter Frost

    Well, that issue was rather different. Peter Frost got badly triggered and started deleting Unz’s own comments to his blog posts. Not a great idea to do that to the guy who’s website you’re writing on! I assume Israel is more even-tempered. That issue later got resolved, though. According to his second to last post here, the reason Peter stopped blogging is because of his concern over Canada’s new hate speech laws.

    Can we get your definition of what units should comprise this Federation?

    Well personally I (just like Ivan Ilyin, Putin’s favorite philosopher) am personally opposed to the idea of a Russian Federation in general. A true federation only occurs organically, over many decades and even centuries, of progressive agreements between independent states to pool more and more of their sovereignty to a federal center (e.g. Switzerland, the US). Russia has *zero* such traditions. A federation on its territory makes no sense. It can only be anarchy of fiefdoms (1990s); a lie; or some schizophrenic hydrid of the two (the banal reality today).

    Dissolving this pseudo-federation and replacing it with a Russian national state will make your question mostly moot.

    But to answer it anyway, I do think Russia will be better off without Chechnya, Ingushetia, and probably Dagestan (though separation is politically unrealistic for any number of reasons). Belarus, North Kazakhstan, and most of the Ukraine should preferably be within Russia, or closely and inextricably integrated with the Russian world at a bare minimum.

    Read More
    • Replies: @War for Blair Mountain
    Anatoly

    If "Christian " Europe and "Christian" America would stop trying murder Christian Russia......Christian Russia could-should-would end it's Central Asian Muslim alliances....yes?....no?
  50. REDPILLED says:
    @Cyrano
    I agree with most of what this article says, except for one thing – that the spooks are taking over US, - they are only used to give the ridiculous propaganda about Russia a flavor of reality and even then it’s a tough sell. Donald Trump doesn’t even dare to call it by its traditional name – propaganda – he had to invent a new term – “fake news”, because it’s too hard for any administration to admit that America has ever, or is at present using propaganda, but that’s what it is, no matter how you call it.

    When this whole thing collapses under its own weight of complete nonsense, CIA will be blamed again for producing “faulty intelligence”, like they were blamed after the Iraq fiasco. There never was a faulty intelligence, CIA only produced it after some serious arm twisting from Rumsfeld and Cheney.

    CIA can do many things, but it can’t make political decisions. It can deliver amazingly accurate intelligence assessments, but it can’t decide how they will be used. Quite often the politicians intentionally misinterpret the intelligence gathered by CIA if it doesn’t fit their script. Basically the faulty intelligence is produced by the political overlords, not by CIA - because they simply lack the political power to defend themselves when they are used as scapegoats.

    Please read these:

    The Devil’s Chessboard: Allen Dulles, the CIA, and the Rise of America’s Secret Government
    by David Talbot

    The CIA as Organized Crime: How Illegal Operations Corrupt America and the World
    by Douglas Valentine

    Read More
  51. Kiza says:
    @Ximenes

    The Russian diplomats are being knocked off like clay pigeons around the World and again Putin does nothing, and so on.
     
    Just think if Russian leaders, the Tsar, and so on, had been wise and disciplined enough to avoid all provocations to enter the war against Germany in 1914. Sure they would have lost some "territories," but... no collapse of the state, no Bolshevik Revolution, no Lenin or Stalin, and probably no WWII.

    Do you really believe what you wrote!?!? Do wars happen only because of provocations? Without responding to provocations, there would be no WW1 and no WW2 !? Perhaps if the US launches the First (nuclear) Strike on Russia, Russia should not respond to this provocation because that would mean WW3? Has it ever occurred to you that if you do not respond to provocations, the provocateur will keep escalating provocations? Now this does not mean that one should respond to every provocation and in the way that the provocateur wants and expects. Putin may be smart to respond in his one way and at his own best moment.

    Which Mickey Mouse history did you study?

    Read More
    • Replies: @jacques sheete

    Do wars happen only because of provocations?
     
    No.

    The word, "provocations" probably should have rather been "enticements." There really were not a lot of provocations at least from Germany. It was probably more like enticements from France and England plus his desire to obtain Constantinople from the crumbling Ottoman empire.

    He would have done well to respond positively to the "Willy- Nicky" correspondence, and did attempt to, but was apparently undermined by his war mongering staff, such as Izvolski and Sazanov.

    , @Parbes
    "Which Mickey Mouse history did you study?"

    He studied the revisionist, "it's-true-because-I-assert-so", make-up-as-you-go version of history, of course - the same as the rest of the Hitler-adoring, WWII-revanchist North American neo-Nazi commentariat on this website (who are falsely called "White Nationalists" when in fact it would be more accurate to call them "neo-Hitlerian propagandist ideologues").
  52. @joe webb
    Adam, the First Man, or have you dropped that appellation as too transparently egotistic?

    You and Karlin, both communists (I know you are a commie, but don't know for sure about your compatriot). And your putative Christianity...the jew christian, well we had them a couple thousand years ago, but now? Another communist front dodge.

    So, is it to be, that the (two?) communists have me banned? O please. Not That!

    By the way, I know KM, and he too, like Richard Spencer, is a nazi, and the difference between us (KM) is basically only that. So maybe you might write him about that....you guys can have a duel.

    Your character was revealed to me by a day or two carting you around in the SF Bay Area a few years ago. You gave me a signed copy of The Iron Heel, by Jack London, when I took you up to his ranch in Sonoma Co. for your pilgrimage. Thank you.

    I read it. It is very revealing about your character. The Maximum Leader in The Iron Heel, is you, and that is why you love it. The Jew and The Communist Maximum Leader, the Leninist, in a word, is what you are.

    People should read The Iron Hell, if for no other reason than to know what kind of Heel is going to stomp us out if the Third World takes over. Your putative support for Trump is a joke, a fake, a me-too feint, to fool UR readers.

    " They know how to live together, " your comment about the Russian Diversity. How about the Chechens, and the breakaway muzzie states when the People's Paradise folded? Seriously, please discuss Russian Diversity and maybe I will be convinced that the Southern Darkies in the US are Good for the USA, as well as myself.

    Comrade Webb.

    I know unironic real-life Nazis who would be embarrassed to be associated with you.

    Read More
    • Replies: @joe webb
    I too know nazis who would not give you the time of day. Oriental despotism Inc. that is you. I have Quit a couple nazi groups who wanted me very much, both for my brains and my aryan good looks. Go home to Chairman Who?
    'JW
  53. alexander says:
    @Priss Factor
    LOL.

    It goes to show that POWER is the decisive factor.

    An organization will defer to the Power even if it is hostile while dismissing(even abusing) the Powerless even if it is supportive.

    Jewish Americans, by and large, are anti-Russian, but they have the power. So, Russia goes out of its way not to offend American Jews even though American Jews piss all over Russia.
    But Nina Kouprianova and Alt Right people who defend Russia from globalism? They got no power and are of no consequence. So, they get ignored, or worse, even persecuted to appease the powerful Jews who rule America.

    Stalin was the same way. He knew Hitler was anti-Soviet. But Stalin feared Hitler and was willing to accommodate him, at least until Hitler decided to invade in 1941. Anything to avoid war with Germany. Stalin even beat up on fellow leftists who urged different tact with Hitler because he feared Hitler and wanted to avoid a war with Germany. Germany was consequential because it had the power even if its ideology was very anti-communist.

    In the end, power has consequence. If you are faced with a big strong person who hates you, you have to do things to ease the tension and goad him to be nicer. He can crush you. If a weakling stands up for you, he is of no value since he has no power. Also, if the big strong guy who hates you demands that you punch the weakling(who supports you), you do it to appease the big guy to avoid conflict.

    Way of power.

    Same way in the US. Alt Right is supportive of Trump, American Jews loathe him. But Trump defers to Jews and dismisses the Alt Right cuz they got power.

    Defer to the power that slaps you and slap the powerless that supports you.
    Power decides. It can decide live or die.

    Interesting, Priss.

    What happens when the powerful commit a heinous crime for which YOU have the power to prosecute them, convict them, take all their assets and send them to federal prison ?

    Where does the power lie, then ?

    Read More
  54. @Anatoly Karlin

    Peter Frost
     
    Well, that issue was rather different. Peter Frost got badly triggered and started deleting Unz's own comments to his blog posts. Not a great idea to do that to the guy who's website you're writing on! I assume Israel is more even-tempered. That issue later got resolved, though. According to his second to last post here, the reason Peter stopped blogging is because of his concern over Canada's new hate speech laws.

    Can we get your definition of what units should comprise this Federation?
     
    Well personally I (just like Ivan Ilyin, Putin's favorite philosopher) am personally opposed to the idea of a Russian Federation in general. A true federation only occurs organically, over many decades and even centuries, of progressive agreements between independent states to pool more and more of their sovereignty to a federal center (e.g. Switzerland, the US). Russia has *zero* such traditions. A federation on its territory makes no sense. It can only be anarchy of fiefdoms (1990s); a lie; or some schizophrenic hydrid of the two (the banal reality today).

    Dissolving this pseudo-federation and replacing it with a Russian national state will make your question mostly moot.

    But to answer it anyway, I do think Russia will be better off without Chechnya, Ingushetia, and probably Dagestan (though separation is politically unrealistic for any number of reasons). Belarus, North Kazakhstan, and most of the Ukraine should preferably be within Russia, or closely and inextricably integrated with the Russian world at a bare minimum.

    Anatoly

    If “Christian ” Europe and “Christian” America would stop trying murder Christian Russia……Christian Russia could-should-would end it’s Central Asian Muslim alliances….yes?….no?

    Read More
  55. Kiza says:
    @Intelligent Dasein
    The former deputy CIA director Mike Morell was on one of my local radio talk shows yesterday (03/08/17) saying that, while he could neither confirm nor deny the existence of the programs outlined in the Wikileaks dump, all Americans ought to be proud that their intelligence community had developed such techniques. Then he went on to say---completely unprompted and apropos of nothing, which shows to what degree he was angling to get this into the conversation just to make sure we wouldn't miss it---that one of the must unfortunate pieces of fallout from the dump was that it seems to let Vladimir Putin off the hook for the hacking he's been doing. This is truly sickening stuff.

    Here is the episode. The Morell interview, I think, begins in the second hour.

    https://www.iheart.com/show/139-Mandy-Connell/?episode_id=28034621

    Disregarding the fact that Demoncrats are using all Wikileaks exposures to blame their favorite and usual suspect Russia, blaming someone who brings information to the public to divert attention from the facts revealed is also a new height of the old killing the messenger to divert attention from the message. This strategy is obviously working less and less well, working now only on the hardcore believers and the Soros-paid rioters.

    Read More
  56. […] Par Israël Shamir | 09/03/2017 | The Unz Review. […]

    Read More
  57. @War for Blair Mountain
    Since you raised the issue of vi0lence...What do you think the H1B...L1 B Visa Program is?...and who are its victims?

    The real issue is this: you don't want the Native Born White American Working Class to notice who is voting then into a violently persecuted racial minority on Nov 8 2020..

    And as other people have noticed, that the names of those arrested in ANTIFA racial assaults against White Male Trump supporters.....lots of South Asian and Jewish names...

    Why don’t you list those Jewish and South Asian names here, lest people think you are not to be relied upon?

    Read More
  58. Che Guava says:

    Many good points, Mr. Shamir, but if I am recalling correctly, Medvedev was president at the time of the stupid abstention from the UN Security Council vote on Libya, not Putin.

    So, ultimately, the abstention is his responsibility. It is easy to believe that decision was from naivety. ‘Don’t worry, we don’t want to do anything bad, just protect people, If you sit this one out, we might do you or your people an unspecified favour in the future.’

    The Master and Margarita, what a wonderful book.

    I like the similarity of the names Woland and Nuland (although the latter is more properly named Kagan, or whatever his real name is).

    It is like five novels in one, the Moscow street, home, and shop parts, the hospital and depressed parts, the night flight and Woland’s party, the literary scene parts (theatre and restaurant), and the Christian part.

    Always wonder to what extent Mikhail’s wife embellishes the night flight part, since she is clearly Margarita. It breaks the flow at times.

    Read More
  59. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    “What happens when the powerful commit a heinous crime for which YOU have the power to prosecute them, convict them, take all their assets and send them to federal prison?”

    I suppose this is possible if the System is more powerful than any single individual or group.
    So, if you serve the System and if the Systems governs with Rule of Law, even the most powerful person can be brought down by you as prosecutor.

    Suppose Bill Gates kidnaps children and molests and kills them, and there is video evidence.
    He has billions, and you’re just a prosecutor with modest means. BUT the system is on the side of the law, and as you’re part of that law, you can serve the law to bring down even Bill Gates.
    But if Rule of Law hardly works, then Bill Gateses of the world could do anything, buy up all the influence, and hire gangs to kill you if you blow the whistle on him. Like the drug oligarchs in Mexico or gangster oligarchs in Russia and Ukraine.

    So, for there to be Rule of Law, the System has be more powerful than any individual or group.
    This is why the Mafia tried to penetrate certain institutions and ‘legitimate’ areas with their moles. In Mexico and Southern Italy, the gang-related people infiltrated official institutions. Gangs train people, send them to college, and these agents get law degrees. Some even enter the clergy, like in Mario Puzo’s THE SICILIAN.

    [MORE]

    The Anglo world had less organized crime problem. Also, the system remained relatively free of such nefarious forces. British snobbery played a part in suppressing gangsterish takeover. Manners mattered, and gangsgterishness was seen as too uncouth for real power. This is why the British elites couldn’t stomach Hitler who was too much like Al Capone.

    (Irish were different. If Italians tried to take over as mafia, drunken Irish ran government like the mafia. All those Flanagans taking over city departments and hiring potatohead cousins in uncouth thick-necked clannish manner.) Because Anglosphere was relatively cleaner, those with less pursued legitimate means to rise up the social ladder. But in societies that are corrupt or closed off to newcomers, the outsiders must resort to extralegal means to make the climb.
    Also, in a corrupt order, those with the power don’t want to share or make room for others. In a clean system, even if your people lose the power, you can take pride in the continuance of the system. You can say the system chose new elites because they won fair and square. Also, the new elites will also serve the system that has the ultimate power. So, it’s not so much your side losing totally to the other side but the other side taking over to serve and maintain the system that is bigger than any side.

    Jews are like Anglos and Sicilians. They do have strong respect for the law and learning. And they are capable and believe in meritocracy. But all said and done, it boils down to “Is it good for the Jews?” So, a kind of mafia-mentality comes into play. If criminal Italians tried to get their people into the institutions to serve the mafia, Jews entered the institutions in a clean meritocratic way but then began to act like mafia.

    WOLF OF WALL STREET is an interesting movie about System vs Power.

    Jordan Belfort, though not one of the biggest hitters on Wall Street, amasses enough fortune to buy influence and get away with lots of shi*. He’s loaded with money that keeps rolling in.
    In contrast, the prosecutor guy is a working stiff. He stands for rule of law and moral standards, but his kind of people are the ones who ride the subway: the stiffs.

    Individual to individual, Belfort has far more power than the prosecutor guy, but the system is on the side of the prosecutor. So, Belfort is eventually caught and brought to justice. And the prosecutor guy wins in the name of the system. But did he really win?

    And even though Belfort was made to pay back what he stole, isn’t it possible he stashed away lots of dought? Besides, even though he ruined so many lives and stole millions, he served only 22 months in jail.
    And didn’t he get caught because he got too greedy? Aren’t there people like on Wall Street who never get caught because they steal just enough and less brashly? Look at 2008 meltdown and how so few people got in trouble.

    Also, Belfort became a folk hero because of the book and movie. And given the debasement of American Culture, he will have many admirers wherever he goes. People will seek advice from him than from the straight and narrow. (But then, Americans have long had a romance with outlaws and gangsters.)

    Also, even if someone with the power of the law has the means & wherewithal to target someone powerful and bring him down, the chances are that the powerful person has friends who are also powerful. And these other powerful folks may help or at least avenge the powerful guy who was brought down. At the very least, they will find ways to destroy the good guy who brought their powerful peer or co-ethnic down. After all, even good guys are not saints, and even honest lawmen have SOME skeletons in the closet. The powerful have access to every piece of dirt.
    Or, the powerful will pressure those in the system not to promote the person who did the good work. Suppose you’re a honest person in the FBI who blew the whistle on some big fish. Ok, you won the first round, and you can believe in the triumph of Rule of Law. But suppose you made a lot of other powerful people angry, and all these people pressure politicians, pundits, bureaucrats, and others to target you for demotion or lack of further promotion.

    Suppose a prosecutor brings down Sheldon Adelson the mega-Zionist. We can all agree that the prosecutor proved that the system works. But in the process, he will have made lots of enemies among AIPAC crowd, and the Big Fish will use all their muscle to see that you never get promoted for what you did EVEN THOUGH he did good work in bringing down a big corrupt guy.

    This is why even the relatively clean and decent people in US government are afraid to take on certain things. Take Arnon Milchan who ADMITTED that he stole secrets for Israel. But NO ONE in government dares to do anything about him when he visits the US. Why? While Milchan the powerful individual can be targeted and charged, there are other powerful people who are his friends and fellow tribesmen, and they will pull every string in the game to make sure you never get anywhere.
    Same in Hollywood or media. Suppose you’re a honest reporter and write a movie script or make a big documentary about dirty dealings of big time Democrats. You have free speech on your side, but so many powerful people will go on the phone and tell eachother, “Don’t promote that guy or send him to Alaska to report on arctic fox.”

    Guys like Milchan are ‘made guys’. They can’t be ‘touched’ because they have many powerful friends. So, even if you can take him down with the Rule of Law, you gotta deal with the fact that other powerful guys will do everything to make your life hell. And they can do it legally or seemingly legally. If you upset the powerful and if you no longer get assignments in journalism or government, the system can cook any number of reasons as to why someone else was chosen.

    So, there is power beyond the power. There is power concentrated in one man, but there is also invisible power of connections between that man and others who see him as ‘made’. So, if you bring him down, others will conspire to make your life hell.

    Read More
    • Replies: @jacques sheete
    The only mafia that really counts is the one we never hear about. The Italian mafia are nothing more than ignorant gunmen for the real mafiosi.

    Here's a short article about it.

    http://www.gilad.co.uk/writings/gilad-atzmon-israeli-economy-for-beginners.html

    Here's a book on the subject.


    SUPERMOB: How Sidney Korshak and Associates Controlled America
    by Gus Russo
     
  60. @Kiza
    Do you really believe what you wrote!?!? Do wars happen only because of provocations? Without responding to provocations, there would be no WW1 and no WW2 !? Perhaps if the US launches the First (nuclear) Strike on Russia, Russia should not respond to this provocation because that would mean WW3? Has it ever occurred to you that if you do not respond to provocations, the provocateur will keep escalating provocations? Now this does not mean that one should respond to every provocation and in the way that the provocateur wants and expects. Putin may be smart to respond in his one way and at his own best moment.

    Which Mickey Mouse history did you study?

    Do wars happen only because of provocations?

    No.

    The word, “provocations” probably should have rather been “enticements.” There really were not a lot of provocations at least from Germany. It was probably more like enticements from France and England plus his desire to obtain Constantinople from the crumbling Ottoman empire.

    He would have done well to respond positively to the “Willy- Nicky” correspondence, and did attempt to, but was apparently undermined by his war mongering staff, such as Izvolski and Sazanov.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Kiza
    I simply reject the contemporary Western (British) revisionist history of WW1, which inverts the cause and the consequence to claim that the war was really started by Russia and France, not Austria and Germany. I also agree that the better word is enticement, but the original commenter used the word "provocation".

    I emphasise again that I do not blame Putin for not reacting to every enticement offered by the Western Deep State - yes, the British Deep State works hand-in-hand with the US Deep State and so on. But, he would be fooling himself if he thought that his inaction will do anything but incentivise stronger enticements. Let us hope that he is Sun Tsu-like waiting for the most opportune moment to strike back.
  61. @Anon
    "What happens when the powerful commit a heinous crime for which YOU have the power to prosecute them, convict them, take all their assets and send them to federal prison?"

    I suppose this is possible if the System is more powerful than any single individual or group.
    So, if you serve the System and if the Systems governs with Rule of Law, even the most powerful person can be brought down by you as prosecutor.

    Suppose Bill Gates kidnaps children and molests and kills them, and there is video evidence.
    He has billions, and you're just a prosecutor with modest means. BUT the system is on the side of the law, and as you're part of that law, you can serve the law to bring down even Bill Gates.
    But if Rule of Law hardly works, then Bill Gateses of the world could do anything, buy up all the influence, and hire gangs to kill you if you blow the whistle on him. Like the drug oligarchs in Mexico or gangster oligarchs in Russia and Ukraine.

    So, for there to be Rule of Law, the System has be more powerful than any individual or group.
    This is why the Mafia tried to penetrate certain institutions and 'legitimate' areas with their moles. In Mexico and Southern Italy, the gang-related people infiltrated official institutions. Gangs train people, send them to college, and these agents get law degrees. Some even enter the clergy, like in Mario Puzo's THE SICILIAN.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWRMK5FOrC4

    The Anglo world had less organized crime problem. Also, the system remained relatively free of such nefarious forces. British snobbery played a part in suppressing gangsterish takeover. Manners mattered, and gangsgterishness was seen as too uncouth for real power. This is why the British elites couldn't stomach Hitler who was too much like Al Capone.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8nZBlPfR7Y

    (Irish were different. If Italians tried to take over as mafia, drunken Irish ran government like the mafia. All those Flanagans taking over city departments and hiring potatohead cousins in uncouth thick-necked clannish manner.) Because Anglosphere was relatively cleaner, those with less pursued legitimate means to rise up the social ladder. But in societies that are corrupt or closed off to newcomers, the outsiders must resort to extralegal means to make the climb.
    Also, in a corrupt order, those with the power don't want to share or make room for others. In a clean system, even if your people lose the power, you can take pride in the continuance of the system. You can say the system chose new elites because they won fair and square. Also, the new elites will also serve the system that has the ultimate power. So, it's not so much your side losing totally to the other side but the other side taking over to serve and maintain the system that is bigger than any side.

    Jews are like Anglos and Sicilians. They do have strong respect for the law and learning. And they are capable and believe in meritocracy. But all said and done, it boils down to "Is it good for the Jews?" So, a kind of mafia-mentality comes into play. If criminal Italians tried to get their people into the institutions to serve the mafia, Jews entered the institutions in a clean meritocratic way but then began to act like mafia.

    WOLF OF WALL STREET is an interesting movie about System vs Power.

    Jordan Belfort, though not one of the biggest hitters on Wall Street, amasses enough fortune to buy influence and get away with lots of shi*. He's loaded with money that keeps rolling in.
    In contrast, the prosecutor guy is a working stiff. He stands for rule of law and moral standards, but his kind of people are the ones who ride the subway: the stiffs.

    https://youtu.be/z0lByEmGkkU?t=1m24s

    Individual to individual, Belfort has far more power than the prosecutor guy, but the system is on the side of the prosecutor. So, Belfort is eventually caught and brought to justice. And the prosecutor guy wins in the name of the system. But did he really win?

    https://youtu.be/YmfPT47awUg?t=48s

    And even though Belfort was made to pay back what he stole, isn't it possible he stashed away lots of dought? Besides, even though he ruined so many lives and stole millions, he served only 22 months in jail.
    And didn't he get caught because he got too greedy? Aren't there people like on Wall Street who never get caught because they steal just enough and less brashly? Look at 2008 meltdown and how so few people got in trouble.

    Also, Belfort became a folk hero because of the book and movie. And given the debasement of American Culture, he will have many admirers wherever he goes. People will seek advice from him than from the straight and narrow. (But then, Americans have long had a romance with outlaws and gangsters.)

    Also, even if someone with the power of the law has the means & wherewithal to target someone powerful and bring him down, the chances are that the powerful person has friends who are also powerful. And these other powerful folks may help or at least avenge the powerful guy who was brought down. At the very least, they will find ways to destroy the good guy who brought their powerful peer or co-ethnic down. After all, even good guys are not saints, and even honest lawmen have SOME skeletons in the closet. The powerful have access to every piece of dirt.
    Or, the powerful will pressure those in the system not to promote the person who did the good work. Suppose you're a honest person in the FBI who blew the whistle on some big fish. Ok, you won the first round, and you can believe in the triumph of Rule of Law. But suppose you made a lot of other powerful people angry, and all these people pressure politicians, pundits, bureaucrats, and others to target you for demotion or lack of further promotion.

    Suppose a prosecutor brings down Sheldon Adelson the mega-Zionist. We can all agree that the prosecutor proved that the system works. But in the process, he will have made lots of enemies among AIPAC crowd, and the Big Fish will use all their muscle to see that you never get promoted for what you did EVEN THOUGH he did good work in bringing down a big corrupt guy.

    This is why even the relatively clean and decent people in US government are afraid to take on certain things. Take Arnon Milchan who ADMITTED that he stole secrets for Israel. But NO ONE in government dares to do anything about him when he visits the US. Why? While Milchan the powerful individual can be targeted and charged, there are other powerful people who are his friends and fellow tribesmen, and they will pull every string in the game to make sure you never get anywhere.
    Same in Hollywood or media. Suppose you're a honest reporter and write a movie script or make a big documentary about dirty dealings of big time Democrats. You have free speech on your side, but so many powerful people will go on the phone and tell eachother, "Don't promote that guy or send him to Alaska to report on arctic fox."

    Guys like Milchan are 'made guys'. They can't be 'touched' because they have many powerful friends. So, even if you can take him down with the Rule of Law, you gotta deal with the fact that other powerful guys will do everything to make your life hell. And they can do it legally or seemingly legally. If you upset the powerful and if you no longer get assignments in journalism or government, the system can cook any number of reasons as to why someone else was chosen.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlQCW02Tbxc

    So, there is power beyond the power. There is power concentrated in one man, but there is also invisible power of connections between that man and others who see him as 'made'. So, if you bring him down, others will conspire to make your life hell.

    The only mafia that really counts is the one we never hear about. The Italian mafia are nothing more than ignorant gunmen for the real mafiosi.

    Here’s a short article about it.

    http://www.gilad.co.uk/writings/gilad-atzmon-israeli-economy-for-beginners.html

    Here’s a book on the subject.

    SUPERMOB: How Sidney Korshak and Associates Controlled America
    by Gus Russo

    Read More
    • Replies: @utu
    Few quotes from Gilad Atzmon article you linked:
    http://www.gilad.co.uk/writings/gilad-atzmon-israeli-economy-for-beginners.html

    In short, Israel is doing better than other countries because it runs one of the dirtiest- non -ethical economies in the world. In spite of the Zionists' initial promise to bring about a civilised ethical Jew, Israel has, instead, managed to develop an outstanding level of institutional dismissal of international law and universal values. It operates as a safe haven for money made in some horrendous global criminal activities. And it employs one of the world’s strongest army to defend the wealth of just a few of the wealthiest Jews around.
     

    Increasingly, Israel seems to be nothing more than a humongous money laundering haven for Jewish oligarchs, swindlers, weapons dealers, organ traffickers, organised crime and blood diamond traders.
     
    And here is how Hitler envisioned the Jewish state:
    http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/342153-while-the-zionists-try-to-make-the-rest-of-the

    “While the Zionists try to make the rest of the World believe that the national consciousness of the Jew finds its satisfaction in the creation of a Palestinian state, the Jews again slyly dupe the dumb Goyim. It doesn't even enter their heads to build up a Jewish state in Palestine for the purpose of living there; all they want is a central organisation for their international world swindler, endowed with its own sovereign rights and removed from the intervention of other states: a haven for convicted scoundrels and a university for budding crooks.
    It is a sign of their rising confidence and sense of security that at a time when one section is still playing the German, French-man, or Englishman, the other with open effrontery comes out as the Jewish race.”
     

  62. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Anatoly Karlin
    There's certainly some... intersectionalities between the Alt Right and Eurasianism, but ultimately, you are correct that they have little in common.

    Eurasianism is an multi-culturalist ideology first developed by Tsarist Orientalists with some layers from the European New Right. It is HBD illiterate and tends towards obscurantism.

    The Alt Right is the latest (primarily American) iteration of White Nationalism. It is HBD literate and much more humorous and dynamic.

    I do like Dugin, but it is pretty depressing that he is *the* face of Russian nationalism in the West.

    That said, I think Israel Shamir was commenting more on how even (by Western PC standards) ultimately very "tame" movements such as Eurasianism have little influence in Russia, whereas, say, Bannon is now Trump's advisor. (Though OTOH, I would also point out that Bannon isn't really Alt Right himself, and that Breitbart/"Tea Party +"-sphere's combination of nationalism plus state conservatism has its closest analogues in Russia to the "state nationalists," such as Rogozin/old Rodina party and the LDPR).

    “That said, I think Israel Shamir was commenting more on how even (by Western PC standards) ultimately very “tame” movements such as Eurasianism have little influence in Russia, whereas, say, Bannon is now Trump’s advisor. ”

    There’s a paradox.

    Blatantly Alt-rightist views are frowned upon by Russian authorities, BUT Russian system, values, and power are more aligned with Alt-Rightism.

    But then, Russians have a Byzantine mindset. They say one thing but do another. That is how Putin rose to power. Serving Yeltsin and globalists but doing something else and leading Russia down a different path.

    So, even though Russia overtly suppresses Alt-Rightishness more than it happens in America, it covertly practices a kind of power that is more aligned with Alt Right vision of national sovereignty, resistance to Anglo-Zionist globalism, opposition to homo agenda(as proxy of globalist imperialism), respect for tradition, defense of manhood, national pride, Russian heritage, and etc.

    Indeed, if America was ruled by someone like Putin, it would be far more appealing to Alt Right.

    So, Alt Right has more overt voice in the US than in Russia, but Alt-rightishness has more covert implementation in Russia.

    Indeed, one reason why Putin suppresses overt nationalism is because he wants to keep it. He knows he has to keep it respectable so that the world media can’t smear Russia as ‘hateful’.

    As for ‘white nationalism’, it has Nazi connotations in Russia, and it’s easy to understand why ‘far right’ stuff would be offensive to Russians.
    Ukrainians, who suffered greatly under Russians and Jews during Bolshevik rule, tend to see Germans as the ones who helped them fight the commies.
    But anything associated with ‘white nationalist nazi stuff’ can only be anathema to true Russians who defended nation from Hitler.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Israel Shamir

    So, Alt Right has more overt voice in the US than in Russia, but Alt-rightishness has more covert implementation in Russia.
     
    - a good, sharp observation!
  63. utu says:
    @jacques sheete
    The only mafia that really counts is the one we never hear about. The Italian mafia are nothing more than ignorant gunmen for the real mafiosi.

    Here's a short article about it.

    http://www.gilad.co.uk/writings/gilad-atzmon-israeli-economy-for-beginners.html

    Here's a book on the subject.


    SUPERMOB: How Sidney Korshak and Associates Controlled America
    by Gus Russo
     

    Few quotes from Gilad Atzmon article you linked:

    http://www.gilad.co.uk/writings/gilad-atzmon-israeli-economy-for-beginners.html

    In short, Israel is doing better than other countries because it runs one of the dirtiest- non -ethical economies in the world. In spite of the Zionists’ initial promise to bring about a civilised ethical Jew, Israel has, instead, managed to develop an outstanding level of institutional dismissal of international law and universal values. It operates as a safe haven for money made in some horrendous global criminal activities. And it employs one of the world’s strongest army to defend the wealth of just a few of the wealthiest Jews around.

    Increasingly, Israel seems to be nothing more than a humongous money laundering haven for Jewish oligarchs, swindlers, weapons dealers, organ traffickers, organised crime and blood diamond traders.

    And here is how Hitler envisioned the Jewish state:

    http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/342153-while-the-zionists-try-to-make-the-rest-of-the

    “While the Zionists try to make the rest of the World believe that the national consciousness of the Jew finds its satisfaction in the creation of a Palestinian state, the Jews again slyly dupe the dumb Goyim. It doesn’t even enter their heads to build up a Jewish state in Palestine for the purpose of living there; all they want is a central organisation for their international world swindler, endowed with its own sovereign rights and removed from the intervention of other states: a haven for convicted scoundrels and a university for budding crooks.
    It is a sign of their rising confidence and sense of security that at a time when one section is still playing the German, French-man, or Englishman, the other with open effrontery comes out as the Jewish race.”

    Read More
    • Agree: Kiza
    • Replies: @jacques sheete

    ...all they want is a central organisation for their international world swindler, endowed with its own sovereign rights and removed from the intervention of other states: a haven for convicted scoundrels and a university for budding crooks.
     
    I didn't know he said that, but (not to brag) it was apparent to me several decades ago just by observing their behavior.

    Also, I wish Hitler would have been more specific about the ones to blame. The Ziogangsters duped not only the goyim, but also tons of relatively decent Jews, many of whom support the Zio state which makes all Jews look bad.

    , @jacques sheete
    utu,

    Check out this site, which contains the quote you presented. Also, check out the later paragraph which contains the word, "Rhineland."

    Interesting stuff there.

    http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/excerpts-from-mein-kampf
  64. anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    But who exactly is in this “US intelligence community”? Do we really know? The ones who come to public attention are probably just the tip of the iceberg and may not be representative. It’s probably not a monolith but has factions that may be see-sawing for all we know. The Wikileaks exposures probably come from within this so-called community which reflects disgruntlement with the leadership.
    Putin’s perceived tendency towards procrastination is something that may be a strength rather than a failing. Situations often resolve themselves over time without the need to act as if in a panic. He doesn’t want to scare the other European states by making any brash moves and thus play into the American’s hands. It’s a longer view, one of gradual evolvement which might entail current appeasement and concession. When something can’t be done gradually such as with Crimea then resolve comes out of the bag and things move quickly, as was done.

    Read More
    • Replies: @utu

    "Putin’s perceived tendency towards procrastination is something that may be a strength rather than a failing.
     
    "

    Perhaps Putin is following the example of Prince Mikhail Kutuzov as described by Tolstoy in War and Peace. But Kutuzov just like Stalin was aided by cold Russian winter. Tolstoy however made of him a genius of inaction. Every inaction was masterful. But he did not have to act when the cold weather was taking its toll. I doubt if cold weather will be of any help to Putin. Putin apologists sound too much like Tolstoy.

    When Anwar Sadat was kicking Russian generals out from Egypt after the Yom Kippur war they tried to explain and justify their strategy: "Let the enemy in deep into your own territory and then wait for winter. It was well tested with Napoleon and Hitler." - it's from an old joke.
  65. @utu
    Few quotes from Gilad Atzmon article you linked:
    http://www.gilad.co.uk/writings/gilad-atzmon-israeli-economy-for-beginners.html

    In short, Israel is doing better than other countries because it runs one of the dirtiest- non -ethical economies in the world. In spite of the Zionists' initial promise to bring about a civilised ethical Jew, Israel has, instead, managed to develop an outstanding level of institutional dismissal of international law and universal values. It operates as a safe haven for money made in some horrendous global criminal activities. And it employs one of the world’s strongest army to defend the wealth of just a few of the wealthiest Jews around.
     

    Increasingly, Israel seems to be nothing more than a humongous money laundering haven for Jewish oligarchs, swindlers, weapons dealers, organ traffickers, organised crime and blood diamond traders.
     
    And here is how Hitler envisioned the Jewish state:
    http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/342153-while-the-zionists-try-to-make-the-rest-of-the

    “While the Zionists try to make the rest of the World believe that the national consciousness of the Jew finds its satisfaction in the creation of a Palestinian state, the Jews again slyly dupe the dumb Goyim. It doesn't even enter their heads to build up a Jewish state in Palestine for the purpose of living there; all they want is a central organisation for their international world swindler, endowed with its own sovereign rights and removed from the intervention of other states: a haven for convicted scoundrels and a university for budding crooks.
    It is a sign of their rising confidence and sense of security that at a time when one section is still playing the German, French-man, or Englishman, the other with open effrontery comes out as the Jewish race.”
     

    …all they want is a central organisation for their international world swindler, endowed with its own sovereign rights and removed from the intervention of other states: a haven for convicted scoundrels and a university for budding crooks.

    I didn’t know he said that, but (not to brag) it was apparent to me several decades ago just by observing their behavior.

    Also, I wish Hitler would have been more specific about the ones to blame. The Ziogangsters duped not only the goyim, but also tons of relatively decent Jews, many of whom support the Zio state which makes all Jews look bad.

    Read More
  66. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    If Americans have to rely on someone as sleazy as Trump to be heard, we are truly living in a gangster state. Because as bad as Trump is, the Deep State and Wide State are worse.

    Now, the gangster state can just make stuff up and keep pushing it even without any evidence.

    It’s fake watergate.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDNV4NwC1Vk&t=10s

    Read More
  67. @utu
    Few quotes from Gilad Atzmon article you linked:
    http://www.gilad.co.uk/writings/gilad-atzmon-israeli-economy-for-beginners.html

    In short, Israel is doing better than other countries because it runs one of the dirtiest- non -ethical economies in the world. In spite of the Zionists' initial promise to bring about a civilised ethical Jew, Israel has, instead, managed to develop an outstanding level of institutional dismissal of international law and universal values. It operates as a safe haven for money made in some horrendous global criminal activities. And it employs one of the world’s strongest army to defend the wealth of just a few of the wealthiest Jews around.
     

    Increasingly, Israel seems to be nothing more than a humongous money laundering haven for Jewish oligarchs, swindlers, weapons dealers, organ traffickers, organised crime and blood diamond traders.
     
    And here is how Hitler envisioned the Jewish state:
    http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/342153-while-the-zionists-try-to-make-the-rest-of-the

    “While the Zionists try to make the rest of the World believe that the national consciousness of the Jew finds its satisfaction in the creation of a Palestinian state, the Jews again slyly dupe the dumb Goyim. It doesn't even enter their heads to build up a Jewish state in Palestine for the purpose of living there; all they want is a central organisation for their international world swindler, endowed with its own sovereign rights and removed from the intervention of other states: a haven for convicted scoundrels and a university for budding crooks.
    It is a sign of their rising confidence and sense of security that at a time when one section is still playing the German, French-man, or Englishman, the other with open effrontery comes out as the Jewish race.”
     

    utu,

    Check out this site, which contains the quote you presented. Also, check out the later paragraph which contains the word, “Rhineland.”

    Interesting stuff there.

    http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/excerpts-from-mein-kampf

    Read More
  68. Wally says: • Website
    @Priss Factor
    "A big part of Unz.com articles, if published in Russia, would send their authors to jail."

    ROTFL.

    I'm just curious. Which Unz.com writer would end up in jail?

    Paul Craig Roberts? Pat Buchanan? Steve Sailer? Ilana Mercer? Philip Giraldi? Linh Dinh? Peter Lee?

    How come Shamir isn't in jail? He's written some of the most hard-hitting pieces?

    So very USSR like, Amazon bans all books which scrutinize the ‘holocau$t’ .

    http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11010

    This is absolute confirmation that Revisionist scholars and informed, rationally minded Revisionist debaters have demolished the impossible ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’. There is no other way to explain it. The Zionist claims simply cannot withstand scrutiny and logical debate.

    The ‘holocaust’ storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that denies free speech and free inquiry?

    Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.

    Read More
    • LOL: Daniel Chieh
    • Replies: @Anon
    So buy them someplace else. Big effing deal.
  69. joe webb says:
    @Daniel Chieh
    I know unironic real-life Nazis who would be embarrassed to be associated with you.

    I too know nazis who would not give you the time of day. Oriental despotism Inc. that is you. I have Quit a couple nazi groups who wanted me very much, both for my brains and my aryan good looks. Go home to Chairman Who?
    ‘JW

    Read More
  70. utu says:
    @anonymous
    But who exactly is in this "US intelligence community"? Do we really know? The ones who come to public attention are probably just the tip of the iceberg and may not be representative. It's probably not a monolith but has factions that may be see-sawing for all we know. The Wikileaks exposures probably come from within this so-called community which reflects disgruntlement with the leadership.
    Putin's perceived tendency towards procrastination is something that may be a strength rather than a failing. Situations often resolve themselves over time without the need to act as if in a panic. He doesn't want to scare the other European states by making any brash moves and thus play into the American's hands. It's a longer view, one of gradual evolvement which might entail current appeasement and concession. When something can't be done gradually such as with Crimea then resolve comes out of the bag and things move quickly, as was done.

    “Putin’s perceived tendency towards procrastination is something that may be a strength rather than a failing.

    Perhaps Putin is following the example of Prince Mikhail Kutuzov as described by Tolstoy in War and Peace. But Kutuzov just like Stalin was aided by cold Russian winter. Tolstoy however made of him a genius of inaction. Every inaction was masterful. But he did not have to act when the cold weather was taking its toll. I doubt if cold weather will be of any help to Putin. Putin apologists sound too much like Tolstoy.

    When Anwar Sadat was kicking Russian generals out from Egypt after the Yom Kippur war they tried to explain and justify their strategy: “Let the enemy in deep into your own territory and then wait for winter. It was well tested with Napoleon and Hitler.” – it’s from an old joke.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov
    Ah, no. And if you call Borodino Battle in which in about 8 hours Russians and French killed about 15% of people US lost in Civil War in four years--I wouldn't call it "inaction". It was rather a hell of an action--probably still the bloodiest single day battle in modern history. Per General Frost BS--Wehrmacht, while shivering from cold (courtesy of Nazi logistics which thought to defeat those Ivan untermensch by Winter of 1941) preferred it way more than Autumn Распутица (literally--No Roads), for a simple reason--Panzers and their logistical "train" could move on a hard frozen soil. Look at the campaigns of 1942-43, a truck load of action, Stalingrad and Manstein's attempts to relief the 6th Army--all in the snow. And, of course, it is well known fact that in Red Army trenches in Winters it was balmy 75 degrees F and Soviets fought wearing swimming trunks and flip-flops. There were even some palm trees during battle of Moscow and Stalingrad.
  71. joe webb says:

    So I note that the two ruskies in question cannot respond to my remarks above. As I thought a bit more about Karlin, it seems that he, like Shamir, has remarked his communism. Please correct me if I an wrong.

    If you Like “Dugin ” I guess that makes you a post-marxist commie cum Russian Orthodox Rasputin of sorts.

    I noticed that Richard Spencer also has a warm place in his heart for Dugin . These sophomores, nietzscheans, Evolas, and hangers-on to Utopian romance….all signposts on the road to madness.

    To make it clear, the Shamir indulges in his romance of Trump for the wrong reasons…or the correct shams. Shamir responds to Trump’s critique of capitalist oligarchs, not Trump’s war against immigrants. Shamir wants, like in Israel…the trotskyist One State Solution of Workers of the World uniting to overthrow jewish, in this case, capital. Such a pipe-dream.

    The #1 motivator, say the polls, is economics, in the US. Fair enough. First things first, but a large component of that motivation is solid knowledge of the role of cheap mexer labor and expensive mexer social costs. It must be True cuz i heard it on Fox News, California taxpayers shell out 25 billion a year to mexers for their medical, and social Services. A few years ago I heard it was 10 billion for Texas.

    I suspect that in Europe the #1 motivator for anti-migrant sentiment is not economic but purely racial/crime/violence.

    When I was in Norway about 5 plus years ago, people were pretty fearful of talking about race, but a few did. One guy, out in the middle of nowhere …countryside, was furtively looking about as he told me about his experience working in a slaughterhouse with Iraqis. He said that all they did was complain. Living in relative planet Earth luxury, they complained, and did not get the white pussy they wanted.

    These people are shit, Not sorry. The age of shock of recognition was about 40 for the Norwegians I talked to. One 40ish gal who worked on military computer systems for aircraft summed it up: We were very naive.

    So for the Shamirs out there, few in number I guess on Unz, it is economics is shoved aside by race these days, Get used to it. Blood and Soil.

    By the way also, for Karlin, what is your race anyway? I’ll tell you mine if you tell me yours. Actually, I will tell you anyway: Whitest, meaning English and Swedish, with still mostly blonde hair, blue eyes, 6 feet, and good looking and tough. The North is watching you guys come at us. WE are getting ready. No more Camps of Saints.

    Joe

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    You're 76 years old. Stop playing tough guy on the internet, grandpa.
  72. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @joe webb
    perhaps I don't remember correctly, but I recall that your photograph (?) with a hat on as I recall, stands in marked contrast to your drawing of yourself. Leaving your ego out of it, again, if I recall accurately, your photograph shows a phenotypic Turkic Type. I also may or may not recall correctly that you are from lower Russia, as in the neighborhood of Asia Minor, thus reinforcing my correct , or incorrect, sense of your ethnic origins.

    Your insults are amusing, just part of your orientally despotic tendencies. Your usage of "real estate" to characterize your blog...a proprietary view of your blog, as in nobody gets to challenge you cuz it is 'yours'. More despotism. Speech, free that is...is in the public domain, and it is not yours, as in a child's petty despotism...Mine!

    The classic liberal tradition in the West, of which you are dimly aware I guess, takes the position that Free Speech is not proprietary. Sort of like a tee-shirt with a message on it. Does the wearer of such tee-shirt have the right Not to get some feedback from his public message?

    Your banning me is the equivalent of the tee-shirt wearer getting his shorts in a knot because someone challenged his message. Etc. Soon, it will come as Hate Speech, to tell a Social Justice Warrior that he is full of shit. I am surprised that you have not hit upon that one. Joe Webb is Hater and must be banned.

    Harry Truman: if you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen. You and Shamir cannot stand the heat of debate. To the Slammer! or the bullet administered by the State. Or Banning, or Exile.

    Why don't you post your photo and your drawing again? Then, not only will my memory be corrected or not, but your self-presentation will be out there for all to see. Ego on parade, and a compleat self-perception widely out of whack with actuality.

    Ancient Greece and Rome, and then Germany , were the birthplace of Free Speech, equality before the law, not social equality and so on. Russia never seems to have come up with even liberalism.
    And the Greeks and Romans were basically what we would call northern germanic types. Age old struggle between the North and the South in Europe.

    Russians are odd characters here in the US. The only Russian I know here, is a 30 year old gal who when i asked her about all of this, she said, "we are pirates." Shamir is a jew, and you might be a Turkic type. South. You have not denied it, so please clear this up. No jew every invented free speech, and no Russian or Turkic type ever did so either. You guys are in the undistinguished company of the whole Third World darkie types who never invented civil liberties. You folks did not do so cuz you lack genetic civility.

    Today, Europe is once again going to war along the North-South global border with the dummies in the South, etc, and the free speech types in the north, except for the current disease of racial equality among the worst of the Altruists...Germans and Swedes...and the Armies of the Light slowly building to counter the Southern Armies of the Night swarming. I read that there are about 6 million wretcheds massing in Turkey, etc. for the next assault. Camp of the Saints and all of that.

    I never hear either one of you talking about the March of Humanity Invasion. Like the de Maistre : Ihave heard of Russians, French, English, Germans, etc, but i never heard of a humanity.

    Dreamers Awake!

    Joe Webb

    You guys do not help my pro-Russian prejudices either.

    Joe Webb

    Isn’t private property part of the Western liberal tradition? Blogs are the private property of their authors. Private property implies being able to exclude people whose speech or company one doesn’t like.

    Read More
  73. KA says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    ... although you should note that the last writer that took up the subject is no longer with us
     
    JayMan? I think he's too busy with work and family writers now, but he does still contribute on occasion - presumably, that excludes any falling out with Unz.

    You might want to try and splain this to AK.
     
    Where have I advocated separatism, or even the (very tame) "Stop Feeding the Caucasus"?

    The political demands of mainstream Russian nationalists are rather modest: The end of autonomous ethnocracies on the territory of the Russian Federation (e.g. a return to the guberniya system that existed under Tsarism), the end of mass immigration from Central Asia, an end to the legal privileges accorded to certain Caucasian ethnicities, and an end to prosecutions for political thoughtcrime (Article 282). Maybe even personal firearms legalization, in a century or two.

    There are still Russians in Kazakhstan and a few other Stans They have moved out and relocated to Russia proper But large number still live in Central Asia. Any thought on the language and religious rights of them?

    A wall could be a good idea separating Russian from C Asia. But ideas have consequences It gives rise to license to murder and downplay the significance of hatred . “political demands of mainstream Russian nationalists are rather modest: The end of autonomous ethnocracies on the territory of the Russian Federation” – They are not modest They are illegal if carried out without the consent of the autonomous ethnocracies .
    .

    Read More
  74. […] “The Russian Scare” (Shamir). […]

    Read More
  75. 5371 says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    ... although you should note that the last writer that took up the subject is no longer with us
     
    JayMan? I think he's too busy with work and family writers now, but he does still contribute on occasion - presumably, that excludes any falling out with Unz.

    You might want to try and splain this to AK.
     
    Where have I advocated separatism, or even the (very tame) "Stop Feeding the Caucasus"?

    The political demands of mainstream Russian nationalists are rather modest: The end of autonomous ethnocracies on the territory of the Russian Federation (e.g. a return to the guberniya system that existed under Tsarism), the end of mass immigration from Central Asia, an end to the legal privileges accorded to certain Caucasian ethnicities, and an end to prosecutions for political thoughtcrime (Article 282). Maybe even personal firearms legalization, in a century or two.

    The trouble is that, according to Putin himself, some of those demands can’t be met because they would decrease Russia’s geopolitical influence.

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    Practicality is not the specialty of libertarians or some varities of nationalism.
  76. Kiza says:
    @jacques sheete

    Do wars happen only because of provocations?
     
    No.

    The word, "provocations" probably should have rather been "enticements." There really were not a lot of provocations at least from Germany. It was probably more like enticements from France and England plus his desire to obtain Constantinople from the crumbling Ottoman empire.

    He would have done well to respond positively to the "Willy- Nicky" correspondence, and did attempt to, but was apparently undermined by his war mongering staff, such as Izvolski and Sazanov.

    I simply reject the contemporary Western (British) revisionist history of WW1, which inverts the cause and the consequence to claim that the war was really started by Russia and France, not Austria and Germany. I also agree that the better word is enticement, but the original commenter used the word “provocation”.

    I emphasise again that I do not blame Putin for not reacting to every enticement offered by the Western Deep State – yes, the British Deep State works hand-in-hand with the US Deep State and so on. But, he would be fooling himself if he thought that his inaction will do anything but incentivise stronger enticements. Let us hope that he is Sun Tsu-like waiting for the most opportune moment to strike back.

    Read More
    • Replies: @jacques sheete

    I simply reject the contemporary Western (British) revisionist history of WW1, which inverts the cause and the consequence to claim that the war was really started by Russia and France, not Austria and Germany.
     
    I don't know if the current Western revisionist history is product of British propaganda, but I do suspect that the standard (i.e. false) narrative is likely a product of mostly Brit propaganda. The Brits have a long history of manipulating outcomes in very skillful ways. One can see quite clearly now it works by studying the interaction between the Brit big money boys and the other colonial powers, most notably France, in North Africa and in Ethiopia. As much as I loathe them, one has to admire their skill at the diplomatic game.

    While Austria and Serbia were partly to blame for WW1, it was Germany who got dragged into the war despite its best efforts to prevent a war it could never hope to win. The alliance Germany had with Austria was defensive in nature, not offensive, yet Germany got the blame.

    Quite simply, Germany was becoming serious competition for the Brits and simply had to be crushed ruthlessly, and it was. First it was smeared and demonized, and that should be plain to see.

  77. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @joe webb
    So I note that the two ruskies in question cannot respond to my remarks above. As I thought a bit more about Karlin, it seems that he, like Shamir, has remarked his communism. Please correct me if I an wrong.

    If you Like "Dugin " I guess that makes you a post-marxist commie cum Russian Orthodox Rasputin of sorts.

    I noticed that Richard Spencer also has a warm place in his heart for Dugin . These sophomores, nietzscheans, Evolas, and hangers-on to Utopian romance....all signposts on the road to madness.

    To make it clear, the Shamir indulges in his romance of Trump for the wrong reasons...or the correct shams. Shamir responds to Trump's critique of capitalist oligarchs, not Trump's war against immigrants. Shamir wants, like in Israel...the trotskyist One State Solution of Workers of the World uniting to overthrow jewish, in this case, capital. Such a pipe-dream.

    The #1 motivator, say the polls, is economics, in the US. Fair enough. First things first, but a large component of that motivation is solid knowledge of the role of cheap mexer labor and expensive mexer social costs. It must be True cuz i heard it on Fox News, California taxpayers shell out 25 billion a year to mexers for their medical, and social Services. A few years ago I heard it was 10 billion for Texas.

    I suspect that in Europe the #1 motivator for anti-migrant sentiment is not economic but purely racial/crime/violence.

    When I was in Norway about 5 plus years ago, people were pretty fearful of talking about race, but a few did. One guy, out in the middle of nowhere ...countryside, was furtively looking about as he told me about his experience working in a slaughterhouse with Iraqis. He said that all they did was complain. Living in relative planet Earth luxury, they complained, and did not get the white pussy they wanted.

    These people are shit, Not sorry. The age of shock of recognition was about 40 for the Norwegians I talked to. One 40ish gal who worked on military computer systems for aircraft summed it up: We were very naive.

    So for the Shamirs out there, few in number I guess on Unz, it is economics is shoved aside by race these days, Get used to it. Blood and Soil.

    By the way also, for Karlin, what is your race anyway? I'll tell you mine if you tell me yours. Actually, I will tell you anyway: Whitest, meaning English and Swedish, with still mostly blonde hair, blue eyes, 6 feet, and good looking and tough. The North is watching you guys come at us. WE are getting ready. No more Camps of Saints.

    Joe

    You’re 76 years old. Stop playing tough guy on the internet, grandpa.

    Read More
    • Replies: @joe webb
    I see you remember...however, it is 75, not 76, and not grandpa, but great grandpa and I can still kick your ass. I will, if you want, send you my birth date so you can keep up without using your fingers. JW
  78. @War for Blair Mountain
    Israel

    That's basically what I suspected about the situation in Russia.

    Now I have a question about the Mongolians. How do the ethnic Russians view the Mongolians?

    I think, they view Mongolians favourably. Ditto Kazakh, Yakut, etc. I think the Russians prefer them to white people of Caucasus, to Armenians and Georgians etc. They never migrated much to inner Russia, until recently (Kyrgyz people moved in a lot last year or two)

    Read More
    • Replies: @War for Blair Mountain
    That's the sense that I get from my very limited understanding of that part of the world. I have lot's of respect for the Mongolians....from what I read about them.
    , @Z-man
    Interesting. The more you deal with different people the more you ...'familiarity breeds contempt'.
    But those people from the farther Russian empire might be less cunning, more 'gentile' than the 'Caucasians' thus more acceptable.
  79. @Anon
    "That said, I think Israel Shamir was commenting more on how even (by Western PC standards) ultimately very “tame” movements such as Eurasianism have little influence in Russia, whereas, say, Bannon is now Trump’s advisor. "


    There's a paradox.

    Blatantly Alt-rightist views are frowned upon by Russian authorities, BUT Russian system, values, and power are more aligned with Alt-Rightism.

    But then, Russians have a Byzantine mindset. They say one thing but do another. That is how Putin rose to power. Serving Yeltsin and globalists but doing something else and leading Russia down a different path.

    So, even though Russia overtly suppresses Alt-Rightishness more than it happens in America, it covertly practices a kind of power that is more aligned with Alt Right vision of national sovereignty, resistance to Anglo-Zionist globalism, opposition to homo agenda(as proxy of globalist imperialism), respect for tradition, defense of manhood, national pride, Russian heritage, and etc.

    Indeed, if America was ruled by someone like Putin, it would be far more appealing to Alt Right.

    So, Alt Right has more overt voice in the US than in Russia, but Alt-rightishness has more covert implementation in Russia.

    Indeed, one reason why Putin suppresses overt nationalism is because he wants to keep it. He knows he has to keep it respectable so that the world media can't smear Russia as 'hateful'.

    As for 'white nationalism', it has Nazi connotations in Russia, and it's easy to understand why 'far right' stuff would be offensive to Russians.
    Ukrainians, who suffered greatly under Russians and Jews during Bolshevik rule, tend to see Germans as the ones who helped them fight the commies.
    But anything associated with 'white nationalist nazi stuff' can only be anathema to true Russians who defended nation from Hitler.

    So, Alt Right has more overt voice in the US than in Russia, but Alt-rightishness has more covert implementation in Russia.

    – a good, sharp observation!

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  80. @Israel Shamir
    I think, they view Mongolians favourably. Ditto Kazakh, Yakut, etc. I think the Russians prefer them to white people of Caucasus, to Armenians and Georgians etc. They never migrated much to inner Russia, until recently (Kyrgyz people moved in a lot last year or two)

    That’s the sense that I get from my very limited understanding of that part of the world. I have lot’s of respect for the Mongolians….from what I read about them.

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  81. @Kiza
    I simply reject the contemporary Western (British) revisionist history of WW1, which inverts the cause and the consequence to claim that the war was really started by Russia and France, not Austria and Germany. I also agree that the better word is enticement, but the original commenter used the word "provocation".

    I emphasise again that I do not blame Putin for not reacting to every enticement offered by the Western Deep State - yes, the British Deep State works hand-in-hand with the US Deep State and so on. But, he would be fooling himself if he thought that his inaction will do anything but incentivise stronger enticements. Let us hope that he is Sun Tsu-like waiting for the most opportune moment to strike back.

    I simply reject the contemporary Western (British) revisionist history of WW1, which inverts the cause and the consequence to claim that the war was really started by Russia and France, not Austria and Germany.

    I don’t know if the current Western revisionist history is product of British propaganda, but I do suspect that the standard (i.e. false) narrative is likely a product of mostly Brit propaganda. The Brits have a long history of manipulating outcomes in very skillful ways. One can see quite clearly now it works by studying the interaction between the Brit big money boys and the other colonial powers, most notably France, in North Africa and in Ethiopia. As much as I loathe them, one has to admire their skill at the diplomatic game.

    While Austria and Serbia were partly to blame for WW1, it was Germany who got dragged into the war despite its best efforts to prevent a war it could never hope to win. The alliance Germany had with Austria was defensive in nature, not offensive, yet Germany got the blame.

    Quite simply, Germany was becoming serious competition for the Brits and simply had to be crushed ruthlessly, and it was. First it was smeared and demonized, and that should be plain to see.

    Read More
    • Replies: @MarkinPNW
    Some historians have postulated that the completion of the Berlin to Bagdad railway was a motivation for Britain to enter the war against Germany, as it provided a land alternative to the British controlled Suez canal for accessing Middle Eastern oil resources. Probably related to McKinder's theories.

    Hmmm, thinking more about it, the Gallipoli invasion, if it had been successful, would have effectively cut that rail link, giving the British control of the rail ferry connection between the 2 continents, in addition to opening up a Black Sea supply route to Russia.
    , @Kiza
    The key reason for WW1 starting were imperial ambitions of Austro-Hungarian Empire, whilst Serbia played a secondary but also a negative part. The European powers, including Russia, letting AH Empire annex Bosnia was the big issue. But the competition between AH and Serbia was only the "enticement" for the war, all nations which participated in WW1 had their own reasons. All nations which participated also had a strong internal opposition to war. I would not exonerate Germany, but Britain definitely had a much greater interest to engage in a war than Germany, as MarkinPNW and you detail.

    Personally, I would allocate the blame for WW1 in this order of diminishing contribution:
    1) AH Empire
    2) Britain
    3) Serbia
    4) France and Russia
    5) Germany.

    This is why the British "historians" are so keen to turn this around and blame France and Russia - to exonerate Britain.
  82. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Wally
    So very USSR like, Amazon bans all books which scrutinize the 'holocau$t' .

    http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11010


    This is absolute confirmation that Revisionist scholars and informed, rationally minded Revisionist debaters have demolished the impossible '6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers'. There is no other way to explain it. The Zionist claims simply cannot withstand scrutiny and logical debate.
     
    The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that denies free speech and free inquiry?

    Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.

    So buy them someplace else. Big effing deal.

    Read More
  83. My reader Jan Enarson from Alberta, Canada had sent me this interesting comment:
    Your latest article is interesting and delightful reading as always. But I hold Putin in a little higher regard than you. He is a master chess player and his moves have halted the Anglo/American power axis on many fronts. The Ukrainian Neo-Nazis are starting to turn on themselves. Poroshenko’s days are numbered. Syria was saved, although it will take more time to clean out the remaining Western terrorist proxies. And he has turned Russia around from the destitution of the 90’s. I think that more people than we realize quietly respect him more than their own ‘leaders’ even in the West. I was just talking to my wife this morning and she agreed that all this Anti-Russian and Anti-Putin propaganda is starting to backfire.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jake
    I pray that Jan Enarson and his wife are correct. The West needs to be allied with Russia in order to save what is best in the West.
  84. JL says:
    @Anatoly Karlin
    There's certainly some... intersectionalities between the Alt Right and Eurasianism, but ultimately, you are correct that they have little in common.

    Eurasianism is an multi-culturalist ideology first developed by Tsarist Orientalists with some layers from the European New Right. It is HBD illiterate and tends towards obscurantism.

    The Alt Right is the latest (primarily American) iteration of White Nationalism. It is HBD literate and much more humorous and dynamic.

    I do like Dugin, but it is pretty depressing that he is *the* face of Russian nationalism in the West.

    That said, I think Israel Shamir was commenting more on how even (by Western PC standards) ultimately very "tame" movements such as Eurasianism have little influence in Russia, whereas, say, Bannon is now Trump's advisor. (Though OTOH, I would also point out that Bannon isn't really Alt Right himself, and that Breitbart/"Tea Party +"-sphere's combination of nationalism plus state conservatism has its closest analogues in Russia to the "state nationalists," such as Rogozin/old Rodina party and the LDPR).

    I suppose Eurasianism and Alt-Right intersect mostly, and perhaps most importantly, in the area of national sovereignty. Comparing Russian and US politics, though, is bound to create confusion.

    I’d note here that Sergei Glaziyev is also an advisor to Putin. Of course, he is not nearly as close to Putin as Bannon is to Trump, and considerably less influential. However, he is also much more Eurasian than Bannon is Alt-Right. It’s not completely clear what his role is – to act as a bogeyman/lighting rod/troll, or if his advice is actually heard. He has held his position for quite a while, despite the Kremlin having to calm nerves on multiple occasions that Glaziyev’s views are his own and not official policy. Perhaps he’s being held in reserve in the event of a major geopolitical paradigm shift.

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  85. iffen says:
    @5371
    The trouble is that, according to Putin himself, some of those demands can't be met because they would decrease Russia's geopolitical influence.

    Practicality is not the specialty of libertarians or some varities of nationalism.

    Read More
  86. CalDre says:
    @Cyrano
    I agree with most of what this article says, except for one thing – that the spooks are taking over US, - they are only used to give the ridiculous propaganda about Russia a flavor of reality and even then it’s a tough sell. Donald Trump doesn’t even dare to call it by its traditional name – propaganda – he had to invent a new term – “fake news”, because it’s too hard for any administration to admit that America has ever, or is at present using propaganda, but that’s what it is, no matter how you call it.

    When this whole thing collapses under its own weight of complete nonsense, CIA will be blamed again for producing “faulty intelligence”, like they were blamed after the Iraq fiasco. There never was a faulty intelligence, CIA only produced it after some serious arm twisting from Rumsfeld and Cheney.

    CIA can do many things, but it can’t make political decisions. It can deliver amazingly accurate intelligence assessments, but it can’t decide how they will be used. Quite often the politicians intentionally misinterpret the intelligence gathered by CIA if it doesn’t fit their script. Basically the faulty intelligence is produced by the political overlords, not by CIA - because they simply lack the political power to defend themselves when they are used as scapegoats.

    The CIA is, and for a long time has been, the world’s leading terrorist organization. But that is on the operations side.

    On the intelligence side, it is true that a good number of the analysts are decent people (though many aren’t – and even the “decent” ones are generally as brainwashed about who is “good” and “evil” in the world, and hence whom to believe or not believe in case of conflicting information, that even their sincere efforts to do good end up doing a great deal of evil). But the analysts don’t write the intelligence briefings or generate the propaganda – that is left to the political branch (the CIA director and his political appointees), many of whom are neo-cons (Bolsheviks/Globalists) and few of whom are loyal either to the President or to the US.

    The entire problem with the CIA is that it is a secret organization, without oversight, that conducts wars (covertly and overtly, such as the drone programs), manipulates intelligence, and issues propaganda. It is the “deep state” and, essentially, a terrorist dictatorship.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Cyrano
    I agree with most of what you’re saying. CIA is a part of the “deep state” and part of the propaganda apparatus, but I don’t believe that CIA has gained so much autonomy in the decision making process that they are now threatening to take over the government. Politicians created the CIA, they can end them with a stroke of a pen, not the other way around. I do think that Trump is in trouble, because he hasn’t managed to consolidate power – the “deep state” of which the president is also a part and not a separate entity – hasn’t lined up behind him firmly like with previous administrations.
  87. CalDre says:
    @Pandos
    Wrong per Jewish Virtual Library.

    During the Dreyfus case of 1893­1895, agents of the Okhrana in Paris redacted the earlier works of Joly and Goedsche into a new edition which they called the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion." The manuscript of the Protocols was brought to Russia in 1895 and was printed privately in 1897.

    Russians have far greater justification for hating the Jews.

    And the Holocaust story is falling apart.

    Russians have far greater justification for hating the Jews.

    There is reason for mutual hate. Assuming Russian Jews are Khazars, there’s the whole conquest/diaspora thing, the Pale of Settlements, the discrimination, the pogroms. Not that the Jews were not equally aggressive, just weaker. Until the Bolshevik Revolution, when the Jews got their revenge.

    As it goes if one goes back enough in time there’s plenty of reason to hate, and also, if you look for it as hard, to love. It’s just the reasons to hate have a tendency to get written down whilst the reasons to love, do not.

    And the Holocaust story is falling apart.

    It is? Jewlywood still makes about four Holohoax movies a year and Commie Merkel is still busy incarcerating those who conduct historical and scientific analysis of the Holohoax (as inevitably anyone serious about the truth of the matter will come to realize what a perverse hoax it is). Nobody observing the utter lack of evidence for the Holohoax, and the overwhelming evidence against it, is allowed to speak, have a job, or, in an ever-increasing list of countries, have their liberty (i.e., outside prison). So, please, do elaborate.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Lyttenburgh

    There is reason for mutual hate. Assuming Russian Jews are Khazars, there’s the whole conquest/diaspora thing
     
    They are not Khazars. But even if they were - they started this first, by making several Eastern Slavic tribes paying their tribute - Polans aroung Kiev included.

    the Pale of Settlements, the discrimination, the pogroms
     
    Then place the blame on the ethnicities who did these pogroms - i.e. Polaks and Ukrainians. Not the Russians. Besides, the Pale of the Settlement was only for those of the Judaistic Faith - convert, and you are free to travel beyond it. How do you think Alissa Rozenbaum's (future Ayn Rand) family got themselves a hefty gesheft earning apothecary in the imperial capitol of St. Pete?
  88. joe webb says:
    @Anonymous
    You're 76 years old. Stop playing tough guy on the internet, grandpa.

    I see you remember…however, it is 75, not 76, and not grandpa, but great grandpa and I can still kick your ass. I will, if you want, send you my birth date so you can keep up without using your fingers. JW

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Yes, but can you kick ass without soiling yourself? Or do you need to put on your Depends when you kick ass?
  89. MarkinPNW says:
    @jacques sheete

    I simply reject the contemporary Western (British) revisionist history of WW1, which inverts the cause and the consequence to claim that the war was really started by Russia and France, not Austria and Germany.
     
    I don't know if the current Western revisionist history is product of British propaganda, but I do suspect that the standard (i.e. false) narrative is likely a product of mostly Brit propaganda. The Brits have a long history of manipulating outcomes in very skillful ways. One can see quite clearly now it works by studying the interaction between the Brit big money boys and the other colonial powers, most notably France, in North Africa and in Ethiopia. As much as I loathe them, one has to admire their skill at the diplomatic game.

    While Austria and Serbia were partly to blame for WW1, it was Germany who got dragged into the war despite its best efforts to prevent a war it could never hope to win. The alliance Germany had with Austria was defensive in nature, not offensive, yet Germany got the blame.

    Quite simply, Germany was becoming serious competition for the Brits and simply had to be crushed ruthlessly, and it was. First it was smeared and demonized, and that should be plain to see.

    Some historians have postulated that the completion of the Berlin to Bagdad railway was a motivation for Britain to enter the war against Germany, as it provided a land alternative to the British controlled Suez canal for accessing Middle Eastern oil resources. Probably related to McKinder’s theories.

    Hmmm, thinking more about it, the Gallipoli invasion, if it had been successful, would have effectively cut that rail link, giving the British control of the rail ferry connection between the 2 continents, in addition to opening up a Black Sea supply route to Russia.

    Read More
    • Replies: @jacques sheete
    Speaking of railways, the French had been busy building them for the Tsar, and they were apparently mostly, if not all, strategic railroads headed straight for Germany.

    There was some issue as well about financing them, but I don't recall what it was exactly.

    In any case, the French, Russians and Brits didn't exactly relish another competitor for the control of the neighborhood...and beyond.
  90. Cyrano says:
    @CalDre
    The CIA is, and for a long time has been, the world's leading terrorist organization. But that is on the operations side.

    On the intelligence side, it is true that a good number of the analysts are decent people (though many aren't - and even the "decent" ones are generally as brainwashed about who is "good" and "evil" in the world, and hence whom to believe or not believe in case of conflicting information, that even their sincere efforts to do good end up doing a great deal of evil). But the analysts don't write the intelligence briefings or generate the propaganda - that is left to the political branch (the CIA director and his political appointees), many of whom are neo-cons (Bolsheviks/Globalists) and few of whom are loyal either to the President or to the US.

    The entire problem with the CIA is that it is a secret organization, without oversight, that conducts wars (covertly and overtly, such as the drone programs), manipulates intelligence, and issues propaganda. It is the "deep state" and, essentially, a terrorist dictatorship.

    I agree with most of what you’re saying. CIA is a part of the “deep state” and part of the propaganda apparatus, but I don’t believe that CIA has gained so much autonomy in the decision making process that they are now threatening to take over the government. Politicians created the CIA, they can end them with a stroke of a pen, not the other way around. I do think that Trump is in trouble, because he hasn’t managed to consolidate power – the “deep state” of which the president is also a part and not a separate entity – hasn’t lined up behind him firmly like with previous administrations.

    Read More
    • Replies: @CalDre
    "Politicians created the CIA, they can end them with a stroke of a pen, not the other way around. " No, they can't - you presume the CIA will follow the law, but, as I noted, it is an (outlaw) terrorist organization. I remember some guy who tried to shake up the CIA with the stroke of a pen ... it's coming to me ... oh yeah, JFK! He lasted about 6 months after proposing that.

    The CIA has no morality, it is purely Machiavellian. It spies on US politicians and can, and does, blackmail them (with "plausible deniability", of course). It runs drugs and engages in other black market activities to make itself independent from the purse strings of Congress. It starts and prosecutes wars. It kidnaps, assassinates and blackmails people. It trains, arms and funds terrorists, both those that "fight us", and that "fight for us". It lies, about very important things. And it bears the full and ultimate responsibility for 9/11 (and all of its consequences, many of them shaped by the protagonist itself).

    There's lot more to be said and details to substantiate these claims, but I"m not writing a book, just an Unz comment :).
  91. Z-man says:
    @Israel Shamir
    I think, they view Mongolians favourably. Ditto Kazakh, Yakut, etc. I think the Russians prefer them to white people of Caucasus, to Armenians and Georgians etc. They never migrated much to inner Russia, until recently (Kyrgyz people moved in a lot last year or two)

    Interesting. The more you deal with different people the more you …’familiarity breeds contempt’.
    But those people from the farther Russian empire might be less cunning, more ‘gentile’ than the ‘Caucasians’ thus more acceptable.

    Read More
  92. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @joe webb
    I see you remember...however, it is 75, not 76, and not grandpa, but great grandpa and I can still kick your ass. I will, if you want, send you my birth date so you can keep up without using your fingers. JW

    Yes, but can you kick ass without soiling yourself? Or do you need to put on your Depends when you kick ass?

    Read More
  93. @MarkinPNW
    Some historians have postulated that the completion of the Berlin to Bagdad railway was a motivation for Britain to enter the war against Germany, as it provided a land alternative to the British controlled Suez canal for accessing Middle Eastern oil resources. Probably related to McKinder's theories.

    Hmmm, thinking more about it, the Gallipoli invasion, if it had been successful, would have effectively cut that rail link, giving the British control of the rail ferry connection between the 2 continents, in addition to opening up a Black Sea supply route to Russia.

    Speaking of railways, the French had been busy building them for the Tsar, and they were apparently mostly, if not all, strategic railroads headed straight for Germany.

    There was some issue as well about financing them, but I don’t recall what it was exactly.

    In any case, the French, Russians and Brits didn’t exactly relish another competitor for the control of the neighborhood…and beyond.

    Read More
  94. Z-man says:

    By the way, another Neocon stooge appointment by The Donald. Huntsman to be Ambassador to Russia no less. The ‘establishment’ is really putting the squeeze on Trump, I’m getting nauseated.

    Read More
  95. Jake says:
    @animalogic
    Mr Shamir is largely correct.
    Most Unz readers know what's going on with the US & Russia. US elites hate Russia because (crudely put) they simply will not bend-over for the US. And US elites will NOT tolerate equals, let alone a nation which acts like a sovereign nation. Russia is a very-very useful bogey man for those in the US military/industrial/
    intelligence complex. And, then along comes Trump with his sensible ideas about reducing tensions with Russia: KILL THE HERETIC !
    But really it was all so neat...2 birds with one stone ! Continue to amp up the fear & loathing on Russia, THEN, use that fear etc to de-legitimate & criminalise the legally elected executive headed by President Trump. BRILLIANT !
    And if the whole thing undermines US democracy, constitution, & institutions ? So what ! Elites have been doing similar for decades now !

    In other words, the British Empire actually won the American Revolution, because the UA post-Lincoln moved toward becoming the British Empire of the Americas, which process was sent into overdrove by ardent Anglophile Wilson, the process leading to the US seamlessly taking over for London.

    Read More
  96. Jake says:
    @Israel Shamir
    My reader Jan Enarson from Alberta, Canada had sent me this interesting comment:
    Your latest article is interesting and delightful reading as always. But I hold Putin in a little higher regard than you. He is a master chess player and his moves have halted the Anglo/American power axis on many fronts. The Ukrainian Neo-Nazis are starting to turn on themselves. Poroshenko’s days are numbered. Syria was saved, although it will take more time to clean out the remaining Western terrorist proxies. And he has turned Russia around from the destitution of the 90’s. I think that more people than we realize quietly respect him more than their own ‘leaders’ even in the West. I was just talking to my wife this morning and she agreed that all this Anti-Russian and Anti-Putin propaganda is starting to backfire.

    I pray that Jan Enarson and his wife are correct. The West needs to be allied with Russia in order to save what is best in the West.

    Read More
    • Agree: Z-man
    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov

    The West needs to be allied with Russia in order to save what is best in the West.
     
    As Edik Limonov, not without justification, wrote about 3-4 months ago about Russia:" We are The West now". He kinda has a point.
    , @Kiza
    Only an F-marked student of history can share your optimism, but it is a pleasant delusion. The West and Russia have never been friends and this is now even less likely for many, many reasons.
  97. Kiza says:
    @jacques sheete

    I simply reject the contemporary Western (British) revisionist history of WW1, which inverts the cause and the consequence to claim that the war was really started by Russia and France, not Austria and Germany.
     
    I don't know if the current Western revisionist history is product of British propaganda, but I do suspect that the standard (i.e. false) narrative is likely a product of mostly Brit propaganda. The Brits have a long history of manipulating outcomes in very skillful ways. One can see quite clearly now it works by studying the interaction between the Brit big money boys and the other colonial powers, most notably France, in North Africa and in Ethiopia. As much as I loathe them, one has to admire their skill at the diplomatic game.

    While Austria and Serbia were partly to blame for WW1, it was Germany who got dragged into the war despite its best efforts to prevent a war it could never hope to win. The alliance Germany had with Austria was defensive in nature, not offensive, yet Germany got the blame.

    Quite simply, Germany was becoming serious competition for the Brits and simply had to be crushed ruthlessly, and it was. First it was smeared and demonized, and that should be plain to see.

    The key reason for WW1 starting were imperial ambitions of Austro-Hungarian Empire, whilst Serbia played a secondary but also a negative part. The European powers, including Russia, letting AH Empire annex Bosnia was the big issue. But the competition between AH and Serbia was only the “enticement” for the war, all nations which participated in WW1 had their own reasons. All nations which participated also had a strong internal opposition to war. I would not exonerate Germany, but Britain definitely had a much greater interest to engage in a war than Germany, as MarkinPNW and you detail.

    Personally, I would allocate the blame for WW1 in this order of diminishing contribution:
    1) AH Empire
    2) Britain
    3) Serbia
    4) France and Russia
    5) Germany.

    This is why the British “historians” are so keen to turn this around and blame France and Russia – to exonerate Britain.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov

    4) France and Russia
     
    Oh man, Maurice Paleologue comes to mind immediately but, of course, Solzhenitsyn's fanboys never heard of Sobolev's "Capital Repair" (Капитальный Ремонт) and never read it.
    , @jacques sheete
    Good comments.

    I like your list and any quibble I have are too minor for me to argue.

    Anyway, my main point is that none of us can believe the usual narratives, and Americans, in my experience, are way too gullible for their own good. Most of what they accept as the truth is pure garbage. Often it's the exact opposite of the truth, like politician's promises and corporate ads.

    And the huge farcical lie that Russia and Muslims are a threat. Given the provocations both have endured for decades, it's a wonder that there really is no substantial threat to the US from those sources.

    The real threats get no play; worse, they're presented as our "friends."
  98. CalDre says:
    @Cyrano
    I agree with most of what you’re saying. CIA is a part of the “deep state” and part of the propaganda apparatus, but I don’t believe that CIA has gained so much autonomy in the decision making process that they are now threatening to take over the government. Politicians created the CIA, they can end them with a stroke of a pen, not the other way around. I do think that Trump is in trouble, because he hasn’t managed to consolidate power – the “deep state” of which the president is also a part and not a separate entity – hasn’t lined up behind him firmly like with previous administrations.

    Politicians created the CIA, they can end them with a stroke of a pen, not the other way around. ” No, they can’t – you presume the CIA will follow the law, but, as I noted, it is an (outlaw) terrorist organization. I remember some guy who tried to shake up the CIA with the stroke of a pen … it’s coming to me … oh yeah, JFK! He lasted about 6 months after proposing that.

    The CIA has no morality, it is purely Machiavellian. It spies on US politicians and can, and does, blackmail them (with “plausible deniability”, of course). It runs drugs and engages in other black market activities to make itself independent from the purse strings of Congress. It starts and prosecutes wars. It kidnaps, assassinates and blackmails people. It trains, arms and funds terrorists, both those that “fight us”, and that “fight for us”. It lies, about very important things. And it bears the full and ultimate responsibility for 9/11 (and all of its consequences, many of them shaped by the protagonist itself).

    There’s lot more to be said and details to substantiate these claims, but I”m not writing a book, just an Unz comment :).

    Read More
    • Agree: Kiza
    • Replies: @Cyrano

    It starts and prosecutes wars. It kidnaps, assassinates and blackmails people.
     
    Where? In the US? What CIA can do abroad and domestically are two different things. CIA can get very creative in foreign countries because the degenerates (US politicians) see the world as their playground where they can give free reign to their most stupid ideas because US thinks that their foreign policy is consequence free – no matter what disastrous idea they come up with it will not have negative effects on US. Well they are wrong about it. Nothing is consequence free. I think you watch too many crappy Hollywood spy movies and have distorted views about the roles and the ability of CIA in different arenas.
  99. Andrei Martyanov [AKA "SmoothieX12"] says: • Website
    @utu

    "Putin’s perceived tendency towards procrastination is something that may be a strength rather than a failing.
     
    "

    Perhaps Putin is following the example of Prince Mikhail Kutuzov as described by Tolstoy in War and Peace. But Kutuzov just like Stalin was aided by cold Russian winter. Tolstoy however made of him a genius of inaction. Every inaction was masterful. But he did not have to act when the cold weather was taking its toll. I doubt if cold weather will be of any help to Putin. Putin apologists sound too much like Tolstoy.

    When Anwar Sadat was kicking Russian generals out from Egypt after the Yom Kippur war they tried to explain and justify their strategy: "Let the enemy in deep into your own territory and then wait for winter. It was well tested with Napoleon and Hitler." - it's from an old joke.

    Ah, no. And if you call Borodino Battle in which in about 8 hours Russians and French killed about 15% of people US lost in Civil War in four years–I wouldn’t call it “inaction”. It was rather a hell of an action–probably still the bloodiest single day battle in modern history. Per General Frost BS–Wehrmacht, while shivering from cold (courtesy of Nazi logistics which thought to defeat those Ivan untermensch by Winter of 1941) preferred it way more than Autumn Распутица (literally–No Roads), for a simple reason–Panzers and their logistical “train” could move on a hard frozen soil. Look at the campaigns of 1942-43, a truck load of action, Stalingrad and Manstein’s attempts to relief the 6th Army–all in the snow. And, of course, it is well known fact that in Red Army trenches in Winters it was balmy 75 degrees F and Soviets fought wearing swimming trunks and flip-flops. There were even some palm trees during battle of Moscow and Stalingrad.

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    • Replies: @Diversity Heretic
    I think that it was in Alexander Werth's Russia at War, that one commentator said that if General Winter had been a Russian, he would have been shot for treason. In 1941, however, the winter weather definitely favored the Russians, since, as you note, the Germans were not prepared for winter and they were the ones still trying to advance. Tanks could move more easily over frozen than muddy ground. But I think that most supplies were brought up by rail, so the conditions of the roads might not have made a huge difference.
  100. Andrei Martyanov [AKA "SmoothieX12"] says: • Website
    @Jake
    I pray that Jan Enarson and his wife are correct. The West needs to be allied with Russia in order to save what is best in the West.

    The West needs to be allied with Russia in order to save what is best in the West.

    As Edik Limonov, not without justification, wrote about 3-4 months ago about Russia:” We are The West now”. He kinda has a point.

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  101. Andrei Martyanov [AKA "SmoothieX12"] says: • Website
    @Kiza
    The key reason for WW1 starting were imperial ambitions of Austro-Hungarian Empire, whilst Serbia played a secondary but also a negative part. The European powers, including Russia, letting AH Empire annex Bosnia was the big issue. But the competition between AH and Serbia was only the "enticement" for the war, all nations which participated in WW1 had their own reasons. All nations which participated also had a strong internal opposition to war. I would not exonerate Germany, but Britain definitely had a much greater interest to engage in a war than Germany, as MarkinPNW and you detail.

    Personally, I would allocate the blame for WW1 in this order of diminishing contribution:
    1) AH Empire
    2) Britain
    3) Serbia
    4) France and Russia
    5) Germany.

    This is why the British "historians" are so keen to turn this around and blame France and Russia - to exonerate Britain.

    4) France and Russia

    Oh man, Maurice Paleologue comes to mind immediately but, of course, Solzhenitsyn’s fanboys never heard of Sobolev’s “Capital Repair” (Капитальный Ремонт) and never read it.

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    • Replies: @Kiza
    I am not sure I understand your cryptic comment, but this list shows countries which actively participated in the war and could have stayed out of it. Remember how much Tolstoy was against helping the Serbian "brothers and sisters" in their fight against the Western darling Turkey? The Tzar did not have to come to aid of Serbia when it was attacked by AH empire. This would not have given a chance to Germany to foment October Revolution and Russia would probably still be an empire, counter balancing the Mad American Rulers of the World.
  102. @Kiza
    The key reason for WW1 starting were imperial ambitions of Austro-Hungarian Empire, whilst Serbia played a secondary but also a negative part. The European powers, including Russia, letting AH Empire annex Bosnia was the big issue. But the competition between AH and Serbia was only the "enticement" for the war, all nations which participated in WW1 had their own reasons. All nations which participated also had a strong internal opposition to war. I would not exonerate Germany, but Britain definitely had a much greater interest to engage in a war than Germany, as MarkinPNW and you detail.

    Personally, I would allocate the blame for WW1 in this order of diminishing contribution:
    1) AH Empire
    2) Britain
    3) Serbia
    4) France and Russia
    5) Germany.

    This is why the British "historians" are so keen to turn this around and blame France and Russia - to exonerate Britain.

    Good comments.

    I like your list and any quibble I have are too minor for me to argue.

    Anyway, my main point is that none of us can believe the usual narratives, and Americans, in my experience, are way too gullible for their own good. Most of what they accept as the truth is pure garbage. Often it’s the exact opposite of the truth, like politician’s promises and corporate ads.

    And the huge farcical lie that Russia and Muslims are a threat. Given the provocations both have endured for decades, it’s a wonder that there really is no substantial threat to the US from those sources.

    The real threats get no play; worse, they’re presented as our “friends.”

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  103. Dear UR,

    Kindly consider trashing the really annoying message that messages are being posted too quickly along with the admonishment to slow down.

    WTF izzat???? Ya think there aren’t enough petty annoyances in the goofy gulag already????

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    • Replies: @iffen
    Dear UR,

    RU should give us a chat thread. We could exchange views and opinions and reference Review articles and blogs. Not that you know jack and have anything interesting to say.
  104. iffen says:
    @jacques sheete
    Dear UR,

    Kindly consider trashing the really annoying message that messages are being posted too quickly along with the admonishment to slow down.

    WTF izzat???? Ya think there aren’t enough petty annoyances in the goofy gulag already????

    Dear UR,

    RU should give us a chat thread. We could exchange views and opinions and reference Review articles and blogs. Not that you know jack and have anything interesting to say.

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  105. @Andrei Martyanov
    Ah, no. And if you call Borodino Battle in which in about 8 hours Russians and French killed about 15% of people US lost in Civil War in four years--I wouldn't call it "inaction". It was rather a hell of an action--probably still the bloodiest single day battle in modern history. Per General Frost BS--Wehrmacht, while shivering from cold (courtesy of Nazi logistics which thought to defeat those Ivan untermensch by Winter of 1941) preferred it way more than Autumn Распутица (literally--No Roads), for a simple reason--Panzers and their logistical "train" could move on a hard frozen soil. Look at the campaigns of 1942-43, a truck load of action, Stalingrad and Manstein's attempts to relief the 6th Army--all in the snow. And, of course, it is well known fact that in Red Army trenches in Winters it was balmy 75 degrees F and Soviets fought wearing swimming trunks and flip-flops. There were even some palm trees during battle of Moscow and Stalingrad.

    I think that it was in Alexander Werth’s Russia at War, that one commentator said that if General Winter had been a Russian, he would have been shot for treason. In 1941, however, the winter weather definitely favored the Russians, since, as you note, the Germans were not prepared for winter and they were the ones still trying to advance. Tanks could move more easily over frozen than muddy ground. But I think that most supplies were brought up by rail, so the conditions of the roads might not have made a huge difference.

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    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov

    But I think that most supplies were brought up by rail, so the conditions of the roads might not have made a huge difference.
     
    You are mistaking two types of logistics--one strategic (rail) another field one. Tanks, artillery and infantry do not fight on rails, they fight on land (ground) and they move, sometimes very far and fast from key railroad points (knots). All those supplies from rail must be delivered to field units by (in our case of WW II) trucks and horses, and that is where Rasputitsa became not just operational, albeit it too, but a strategic factor. The logistics "train" (quotation marks intentional) is roughly a flow of supplies per unit under different combat conditions and those units could be removed from rail by many miles. Roads or lack thereof in this case do become a strategic factor.

    I think that it was in Alexander Werth’s Russia at War, that one commentator said that if General Winter had been a Russian, he would have been shot for treason.
     
    Werth's timeless work of both history and culture, which still did not lose most of its appeal, is truly a collection of incredible observations and.... one liners. It should be a must-read primer on Great Patriotic War for any westerner who wants to understand those epic events. Winter did play a crucial role in 1941 but what must be understood, especially when one goes over Krivosheev's works--how significant, sometimes in many tens of thousands (each year), was a number of frostbitten soldiers in Red Army's Winter operations.
  106. […] Cold War is increasingly fraught with possibilities of hot war. 12. The Unz Review: Israel Shamir, The Russian Scare. 14. Facebook: Ellen Mickiewicz, A propos recent build-up of RT coverage: Influence, Persuasion, […]

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  107. Kiza says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    4) France and Russia
     
    Oh man, Maurice Paleologue comes to mind immediately but, of course, Solzhenitsyn's fanboys never heard of Sobolev's "Capital Repair" (Капитальный Ремонт) and never read it.

    I am not sure I understand your cryptic comment, but this list shows countries which actively participated in the war and could have stayed out of it. Remember how much Tolstoy was against helping the Serbian “brothers and sisters” in their fight against the Western darling Turkey? The Tzar did not have to come to aid of Serbia when it was attacked by AH empire. This would not have given a chance to Germany to foment October Revolution and Russia would probably still be an empire, counter balancing the Mad American Rulers of the World.

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    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov

    I am not sure I understand your cryptic comment
     
    Sobolev gives an outstanding description of Paleologue's both public appearances in Russia and the drums of war he helped to start prior to the start of WW I. Simply unrivaled literature, which also gives, mostly correctly, a great description of factors which precipitated the collapse of Imperial Russia in WW I. All that is done in a virtuoso Russian language. The book, which is classic, reads easily and with pleasure. All characters in the book are recognizable and come across as completely real. This book is also a Soviet/Russian Navy's ultimate book. It is also one of the books, among several others, not least of which is Alexey Tolstoy's Ordeal (Хождение По Мукам), which made me quit reading Solzhenitsyn's tedious, completely contrived filled with stillborn splint (лубок) characters, The Red Wheel. Tried several times--failed. I guess my literary tastes are primitive.

    Per Leo Tolstoy--he stated everything he needed to state in War And Peace, he was, what today can only be described as peacenik or, rather, war hater. Tolstoy's understanding, however at times peculiar, of the nature of war (there is certainly the case to be made, and it was, on Tolstoy-Clausewitz dyadic contradictions) gave him the right, as a former combat officer, to pass the judgement on the issue. General Dragomirov, while serving as a superintendent of Imperial General Staff Academy was making officers studying there read and learn War And Peace as a greatest war book ever written.
  108. @Ximenes

    The Russian diplomats are being knocked off like clay pigeons around the World and again Putin does nothing, and so on.
     
    Just think if Russian leaders, the Tsar, and so on, had been wise and disciplined enough to avoid all provocations to enter the war against Germany in 1914. Sure they would have lost some "territories," but... no collapse of the state, no Bolshevik Revolution, no Lenin or Stalin, and probably no WWII.

    That is hindsight. What they were looking at in 1914 was Serbia, a Balkan client of theirs, about to get invaded by Austria-Hungary. Another client, Bulgaria, had already slipped into the German orbit and would later join the Central Powers. The system of alliances in place in 1914 made war inevitable. It is surprising it did not happen earlier.

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  109. Kiza says:
    @Jake
    I pray that Jan Enarson and his wife are correct. The West needs to be allied with Russia in order to save what is best in the West.

    Only an F-marked student of history can share your optimism, but it is a pleasant delusion. The West and Russia have never been friends and this is now even less likely for many, many reasons.

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    • Replies: @Jake
    The optimism that has me praying for the outcome? If I were certain of it, I would so assert.

    The West now needs to be allied with Russia. That is NOT synonymous with asserting that the West will ally with Russia.

  110. Parbes says:
    @Kiza
    Do you really believe what you wrote!?!? Do wars happen only because of provocations? Without responding to provocations, there would be no WW1 and no WW2 !? Perhaps if the US launches the First (nuclear) Strike on Russia, Russia should not respond to this provocation because that would mean WW3? Has it ever occurred to you that if you do not respond to provocations, the provocateur will keep escalating provocations? Now this does not mean that one should respond to every provocation and in the way that the provocateur wants and expects. Putin may be smart to respond in his one way and at his own best moment.

    Which Mickey Mouse history did you study?

    “Which Mickey Mouse history did you study?”

    He studied the revisionist, “it’s-true-because-I-assert-so”, make-up-as-you-go version of history, of course – the same as the rest of the Hitler-adoring, WWII-revanchist North American neo-Nazi commentariat on this website (who are falsely called “White Nationalists” when in fact it would be more accurate to call them “neo-Hitlerian propagandist ideologues”).

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  111. Boris N says:
    @Anatoly Karlin
    There's certainly some... intersectionalities between the Alt Right and Eurasianism, but ultimately, you are correct that they have little in common.

    Eurasianism is an multi-culturalist ideology first developed by Tsarist Orientalists with some layers from the European New Right. It is HBD illiterate and tends towards obscurantism.

    The Alt Right is the latest (primarily American) iteration of White Nationalism. It is HBD literate and much more humorous and dynamic.

    I do like Dugin, but it is pretty depressing that he is *the* face of Russian nationalism in the West.

    That said, I think Israel Shamir was commenting more on how even (by Western PC standards) ultimately very "tame" movements such as Eurasianism have little influence in Russia, whereas, say, Bannon is now Trump's advisor. (Though OTOH, I would also point out that Bannon isn't really Alt Right himself, and that Breitbart/"Tea Party +"-sphere's combination of nationalism plus state conservatism has its closest analogues in Russia to the "state nationalists," such as Rogozin/old Rodina party and the LDPR).

    it is pretty depressing that he is *the* face of Russian nationalism in the West.

    Plus it is obvious that Dugin is mentally ill, and I’m sure that the Western MSM deliberately have selected an insane man as a face of Russian nationalism in the West. The Western Right are gullible and believe their MSM that Dugin is indeed a personification of Russian nationalism. It reminds how the West over-represented insane Rasputin. The old trick. Dugin is today’s Rasputin. Russians must always look insane. There are enough saner people who are more likely to be called Russian nationalists, but they are unknown in the West.

    The same with the Russian “liberal opposition”. Only marginals and freaks are got the coverage by the Western MSM.

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  112. Boris N says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Full disclosure: I’ve met with Russians. I met with a Russian this morning. She brought me coffee. Such crazy and dangerous things can occur in Moscow. I am afraid the CIA and NSA could take notice of this meeting, and then it can be used – even against you. “You have perused an article by Israel Shamir. Were you aware he had Russian contacts?”
     
    He has even met up with other UR contributors. It's an entire spy ring down there!

    If Putin were just slightly similar to the fire-breathing image of himself in the Western media, the Ukraine would be a Western province of Russia, as it had been for the last four hundred years, and it could have been done legally, without firing a single shot.
     
    The Putler of Western imagination is actually a Putlet.

    https://twitter.com/unkawaiipigdog/status/829202380533153792

    A big part of Unz.com articles, if published in Russia, would send their authors to jail.
     
    I think that's a bit of a stretch.

    Still, we can test this out experimentally: http://akarlin.ru/

    Moscow has one of the biggest mosques in the world. Russia has a visa-free arrangement with many Muslim countries.
     
    Though no sea of niqabs as in London. Still, we do need a wall.

    Still, we can test this out experimentally: http://akarlin.ru/

    The Russian thought police is unpredictable, not to say erratic. They choose their victims randomly. Most probably you’ve just started and they has not yet found your site and no thoughtcrime cop has had a butthurt.

    BTW, do you use automatic translation? Your Russian, hm, not to say unpalatable, but sounds very, very foreign.

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    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    I never went to school, don't have any experience with writing in Russian, and have been overexposed to Anglo culture, so yes, it's no surprise that my texts will sound strange.

    Hopefully this will improve over time.
  113. Boris N says:
    @Priss Factor
    "A big part of Unz.com articles, if published in Russia, would send their authors to jail."

    ROTFL.

    I'm just curious. Which Unz.com writer would end up in jail?

    Paul Craig Roberts? Pat Buchanan? Steve Sailer? Ilana Mercer? Philip Giraldi? Linh Dinh? Peter Lee?

    How come Shamir isn't in jail? He's written some of the most hard-hitting pieces?

    If some do not believe that people in Russia are persecuted even for the smallest thoughtcrimes you can consult this:
    sova- center. ru/en/misuse/

    Although this “Sova Center” was purposely created by Jews to wage infowars against “anti-Semites” and “extremists” (read: any Russians who are too patriotic), and they are obviously a liberal organization with multicultural agenda, their reports are very interesting to see for what things people are persecuted today by the Russian thought police. Note that not every conviction for thoughtcrime is reported by them, because they report only what they think was “unfair” and they generally support persecution of thoughtcrimes per se, but even the selectively reported misuses are impressive. Obviously, Russia is a dreamland for SJWs. American Clintonite SJWs just have no idea they are bashing the country of their dreams.

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    • Replies: @Boris N
    P.S. I tried to send this comment unsuccessfully at least ten times. What's the problem? Is "Sova Center" site blacklisted?
  114. Boris N says:
    @Boris N
    If some do not believe that people in Russia are persecuted even for the smallest thoughtcrimes you can consult this:
    sova- center. ru/en/misuse/

    Although this "Sova Center" was purposely created by Jews to wage infowars against "anti-Semites" and "extremists" (read: any Russians who are too patriotic), and they are obviously a liberal organization with multicultural agenda, their reports are very interesting to see for what things people are persecuted today by the Russian thought police. Note that not every conviction for thoughtcrime is reported by them, because they report only what they think was "unfair" and they generally support persecution of thoughtcrimes per se, but even the selectively reported misuses are impressive. Obviously, Russia is a dreamland for SJWs. American Clintonite SJWs just have no idea they are bashing the country of their dreams.

    P.S. I tried to send this comment unsuccessfully at least ten times. What’s the problem? Is “Sova Center” site blacklisted?

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  115. Boris N says:
    @animalogic
    Mr Shamir is largely correct.
    Most Unz readers know what's going on with the US & Russia. US elites hate Russia because (crudely put) they simply will not bend-over for the US. And US elites will NOT tolerate equals, let alone a nation which acts like a sovereign nation. Russia is a very-very useful bogey man for those in the US military/industrial/
    intelligence complex. And, then along comes Trump with his sensible ideas about reducing tensions with Russia: KILL THE HERETIC !
    But really it was all so neat...2 birds with one stone ! Continue to amp up the fear & loathing on Russia, THEN, use that fear etc to de-legitimate & criminalise the legally elected executive headed by President Trump. BRILLIANT !
    And if the whole thing undermines US democracy, constitution, & institutions ? So what ! Elites have been doing similar for decades now !

    US elites hate Russia because (crudely put) they simply will not bend-over for the US.

    But how does this agree with the fact that the Russian elites keep their money in the USA and buy things like luxury villas in Miami? Many have their children living in the USA, and some of children are US citizens (Lavrov’s daughter, for example, who was born in NY). The Russian elites will not have to bend over, they already have.

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    • Replies: @animalogic
    OK, say no more. You've worked it all out. Bully for you.
  116. @CalDre

    Russians have far greater justification for hating the Jews.
     
    There is reason for mutual hate. Assuming Russian Jews are Khazars, there's the whole conquest/diaspora thing, the Pale of Settlements, the discrimination, the pogroms. Not that the Jews were not equally aggressive, just weaker. Until the Bolshevik Revolution, when the Jews got their revenge.

    As it goes if one goes back enough in time there's plenty of reason to hate, and also, if you look for it as hard, to love. It's just the reasons to hate have a tendency to get written down whilst the reasons to love, do not.

    And the Holocaust story is falling apart.
     
    It is? Jewlywood still makes about four Holohoax movies a year and Commie Merkel is still busy incarcerating those who conduct historical and scientific analysis of the Holohoax (as inevitably anyone serious about the truth of the matter will come to realize what a perverse hoax it is). Nobody observing the utter lack of evidence for the Holohoax, and the overwhelming evidence against it, is allowed to speak, have a job, or, in an ever-increasing list of countries, have their liberty (i.e., outside prison). So, please, do elaborate.

    There is reason for mutual hate. Assuming Russian Jews are Khazars, there’s the whole conquest/diaspora thing

    They are not Khazars. But even if they were – they started this first, by making several Eastern Slavic tribes paying their tribute – Polans aroung Kiev included.

    the Pale of Settlements, the discrimination, the pogroms

    Then place the blame on the ethnicities who did these pogroms – i.e. Polaks and Ukrainians. Not the Russians. Besides, the Pale of the Settlement was only for those of the Judaistic Faith – convert, and you are free to travel beyond it. How do you think Alissa Rozenbaum’s (future Ayn Rand) family got themselves a hefty gesheft earning apothecary in the imperial capitol of St. Pete?

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    • Replies: @CalDre

    They are not Khazars
     
    And you know this how? I don't think there is any historical consensus. Have you done genetic testing?

    they started this first, by making several Eastern Slavic tribes paying their tribute
     
    No doubt that wasn't the first provocation, but it doesn't change the point. People who are conquered are often resentful, even if their rulers arguably picked the fight.

    Then place the blame on the ethnicities who did these pogroms
     
    There were plenty of pogroms in Russia by Russians. Not that some of them weren't warranted, but, as you know, Jews are always the victim, never the aggressor. Even in Palestine today it is the evil Palestinians harshly oppressing the benevolent Jews.

    Pale of the Settlement was only for those of the Judaistic Faith – convert, and you are free to travel beyond it.
     
    Indeed, all they had to do was to assimilate to leave - and in fact roaming gangs of Slavic pagan tribes weren't allowed in Orthodox Russia either, certainly not in positions of power. Many Jews don't want to assimilate because they deem themselves superior to their "hosts" (and not only because of the "chosen people" garbage, there's much more to it).

    I should add, when the Jews brought Bolshevik totalitarianism to Russia, they got their payback against both the Orthodox Church and the Czars (who, of course, were Germanic, not Slavic) - and then some, and then some, and then some. Indeed after the Czar and Christian genocide perpetrated by vengeful Jew Bolsheviks, they had gotten rid of their "nemesis". But, alas, along comes Stalin, steals the throne from Trotsky, and purges many Jews (which is the true "Betrayal of the Revolution" Jews worldwide were whining about at the time, and actually still do whine about). Finally when the Communists fell and the oligarchs took over, it turns out the vast vast majority of oligarchs were Jews (like they still are in Ukraine). And Putin put an end (there is still a very disproportionate number of Jewish oligarchs, but they are not all Jewish, and now they no longer control the entire mass media - and in the Jewish media of the world, this makes Putin a Hitler and a thug; to me he is a hero).

  117. …of annoying police, of huge social gaps, of harsh weather and bad roads…

    Ah, c’mon! Our roads are not that bad… now. Besides – which roads? The so-called “federal highways” are maintained round the clock and are in the perfrect shape. In some oblasts local roads are also very nice and smooth. In others… Let’s just say, that when I cross the boundary between southern Moscow oblast and ride into Kaluga’s oblast I actually feel the change :)

    As for police – thankfully, its just annoying! Never once I had trouble with them in my entire life, never felt threatened. I was fined only once – for jaywalking! It was early Januray 2009, some 8:00 and uncharacteristically light traffic at the moment. Well – turns out that the whole stretch of the road had been under proper patrol, because it was just on this day when Iulya Timoshenko decided to drop by and pay a vizit to Gazprom’s stronghold here in Moscow, to beg, plead and cry for the gas flow to be resumed. And that her car cavalcade won’t run over some Muscovite while they will be speeding to the Gazprom Tower, police took and exception and decided to, well, police nearby roads more thoroughly.

    While the cops was filling all the papers and writting down a fine for me a huge morcade did pass nearby. Was it Iulinka? I don’t know!

    And weather is just fine. We are not the Ukrainians – we do have heating.

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  118. @Boris N

    US elites hate Russia because (crudely put) they simply will not bend-over for the US.
     
    But how does this agree with the fact that the Russian elites keep their money in the USA and buy things like luxury villas in Miami? Many have their children living in the USA, and some of children are US citizens (Lavrov's daughter, for example, who was born in NY). The Russian elites will not have to bend over, they already have.

    OK, say no more. You’ve worked it all out. Bully for you.

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  119. @Boris N

    Still, we can test this out experimentally: http://akarlin.ru/
     
    The Russian thought police is unpredictable, not to say erratic. They choose their victims randomly. Most probably you've just started and they has not yet found your site and no thoughtcrime cop has had a butthurt.

    BTW, do you use automatic translation? Your Russian, hm, not to say unpalatable, but sounds very, very foreign.

    I never went to school, don’t have any experience with writing in Russian, and have been overexposed to Anglo culture, so yes, it’s no surprise that my texts will sound strange.

    Hopefully this will improve over time.

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    • Replies: @Boris N
    I understand that. To be clear I didn't mock you, my interest is rather scientific. I'm interested in languages and how people learn and think in them. You're a very good specimen. I asked you about automatic translation because your last text about the wall looks like a poor word-for-word translation. I didn't realize people really could write thus. Your make hardly a single mistake in morphology, but your syntax and word choice is weird. For example, if that was written by a true foreigner it would likely contain errors in declination or conjugation. But you didn't, your grammar instincts are still good, you just think in English, but use Russian words. Try not to think in English when you write in Russian. Just switch off your English completely. I cannot say how to do this specifically, you may do some exercises from some textbooks, or you may just try to read more Russian literature to get good patterns into your head.

    Also what I wanted to say. Due to your specific Russian, your blog will unlikely get a wide audience and the police may not find you or just ignore you. Also they may hesitate to persecute you suggesting you're a foreign citizen and they do not want an international scandal. They rather prefer monitoring Vkontakte and getting easy pickings there.
  120. Cyrano says:
    @CalDre
    "Politicians created the CIA, they can end them with a stroke of a pen, not the other way around. " No, they can't - you presume the CIA will follow the law, but, as I noted, it is an (outlaw) terrorist organization. I remember some guy who tried to shake up the CIA with the stroke of a pen ... it's coming to me ... oh yeah, JFK! He lasted about 6 months after proposing that.

    The CIA has no morality, it is purely Machiavellian. It spies on US politicians and can, and does, blackmail them (with "plausible deniability", of course). It runs drugs and engages in other black market activities to make itself independent from the purse strings of Congress. It starts and prosecutes wars. It kidnaps, assassinates and blackmails people. It trains, arms and funds terrorists, both those that "fight us", and that "fight for us". It lies, about very important things. And it bears the full and ultimate responsibility for 9/11 (and all of its consequences, many of them shaped by the protagonist itself).

    There's lot more to be said and details to substantiate these claims, but I"m not writing a book, just an Unz comment :).

    It starts and prosecutes wars. It kidnaps, assassinates and blackmails people.

    Where? In the US? What CIA can do abroad and domestically are two different things. CIA can get very creative in foreign countries because the degenerates (US politicians) see the world as their playground where they can give free reign to their most stupid ideas because US thinks that their foreign policy is consequence free – no matter what disastrous idea they come up with it will not have negative effects on US. Well they are wrong about it. Nothing is consequence free. I think you watch too many crappy Hollywood spy movies and have distorted views about the roles and the ability of CIA in different arenas.

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  121. Andrei Martyanov [AKA "SmoothieX12"] says: • Website
    @Diversity Heretic
    I think that it was in Alexander Werth's Russia at War, that one commentator said that if General Winter had been a Russian, he would have been shot for treason. In 1941, however, the winter weather definitely favored the Russians, since, as you note, the Germans were not prepared for winter and they were the ones still trying to advance. Tanks could move more easily over frozen than muddy ground. But I think that most supplies were brought up by rail, so the conditions of the roads might not have made a huge difference.

    But I think that most supplies were brought up by rail, so the conditions of the roads might not have made a huge difference.

    You are mistaking two types of logistics–one strategic (rail) another field one. Tanks, artillery and infantry do not fight on rails, they fight on land (ground) and they move, sometimes very far and fast from key railroad points (knots). All those supplies from rail must be delivered to field units by (in our case of WW II) trucks and horses, and that is where Rasputitsa became not just operational, albeit it too, but a strategic factor. The logistics “train” (quotation marks intentional) is roughly a flow of supplies per unit under different combat conditions and those units could be removed from rail by many miles. Roads or lack thereof in this case do become a strategic factor.

    I think that it was in Alexander Werth’s Russia at War, that one commentator said that if General Winter had been a Russian, he would have been shot for treason.

    Werth’s timeless work of both history and culture, which still did not lose most of its appeal, is truly a collection of incredible observations and…. one liners. It should be a must-read primer on Great Patriotic War for any westerner who wants to understand those epic events. Winter did play a crucial role in 1941 but what must be understood, especially when one goes over Krivosheev’s works–how significant, sometimes in many tens of thousands (each year), was a number of frostbitten soldiers in Red Army’s Winter operations.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Lyttenburgh

    You are mistaking two types of logistics–one strategic (rail) another field one. Tanks, artillery and infantry do not fight on rails, they fight on land (ground) and they move, sometimes very far and fast from key railroad points (knots).
     
    On the topic of German logistics and trains running on time – it was pure comedy gold! No, seriously. Probably, the reason behind absolutely gigantic, systematic clusterfuck that it was lied in the simple fact that the idea of the patented German Ordnung was a lie. Or, to be more precise, that it existed only on the local level. Less than a century ago there were no Germany per se. Now, it had been cobbled together. Before that this fabled Ordnung was tiny, Barbie-sized. Every given Free City, Duchy, Country, Bishopric and Barony did maintain its own nice, pleasant cities and fields… fucked over neighbors, raping, looting and pillaging their territory given half a chance. Now, the idea of applying this previously very much local Ordnung on the global scale, let alone on Germany itself was as entertaining and feasible as trying to “pull an owl over a school globe” (c)

    A. Speer went to the Eastern front in his newly minted capacity as the Reichsminister in late 1941. He left rather extensive and very scathing memoirs, describing the set of affairs back then. It turns out, that there were 3 (three) completely independent from each other organizations who were put in charge of different aspects of the railroad transportations for the Wermacht with precious little in the way of accountability and, well, Ordnung. All group of armies “South” had been freezing to death – the railroad stretch of Kiev-Dniepropetrovsk-Stalino was not functioning. How come?

    First category of the railroad troops (Eisenbahnpioniertruppe) were under the command of General-lieutenant Otto Vil, who in turn was subordinate to the infantry general Rudolf Gerke, head of the military-transport service. Second category – the civilian railroad workers of Reichsbahn, who answered only to minister Julius Dorpmuller. And, finally, Todt guys who, in theory would have to answer to Speer himself. When he asked Hitler to allocated 30 000 workers for repair and maintenance of the railroads in the Ukraine Hitler told Speer to go and fuck himself. Instead there were more reforms, optimization and attempts to bring Ordnung to bear.

    They screwed up. As the result of the reform from 4 January 1942 the control over railroads in the East had been transferred to the Civilian railroad workers of the Reichsbahn, who’d have their own separate Eastern Directorate of the Reaichsministry of Transport (Zweigstelle Osten des RVM). BUT! At the same time the same order excluded from this transfer and kept under the control of the Railroad Troops 3 (three) field railroads (Feldeisenbahns) and their directions, created in 1941 prior to the invasion into the USSR (Feldeisenbahndirektionen, FBD): the one for the group of the Armies North, Center and South. The same insane order created in the Warsaw special Military Directorate of the Railroads (Feldbetriebsleitung beim Chef des Transportwesens)

    What it meant in reality? Civilians who had absolutely no idea about how things should be done in the first place in the East were put officially in “charge” – not counting that situation might, oh, I dunno, change any moment now. At the same time Military Railroad Troops flip them a bird, while resenting their official status. And into that had been put Speer with no clearly defined authority, sphere of responsibility and resources, tasked with maintenance and repair of the railroads. By mid 1942 he more or less subordinated everyone else to himself – but it was too late. The damage was done.

    Not only that! Speer writes, that in 1944 they finally decided to review what has been produced by the publishing industry in order to more “optimize” it, given shortages and shitty situation within, he find out that one particular typography in Leipzig had been dutifully performing its order from the Army’s High Command to produce (in many copies!) maps of Persia and Farsi speak-books, which they got in 1941. The higher ups simply forgot to cancel the order.
    , @Diversity Heretic
    Thank you for your clarification. Yes, obviously, unless a unit just happens to be right next to a railhead, supplies must be off-loaded onto trucks or carts and taken to the units in the field. At that point the conditions of the road make a difference. I do wonder, however, much difference a "frozen" road would make over an "unfrozen" one after the passage of a few trucks or carts. The closer the temperature climbs to freezing the more the roads would turn to mud after the passage of only a few vehicles. A tank in the field, by contrast, is generally advancing over ground not previously traversed by a vehicle.

    Past 1941, it seems winter affected both sides equally.
  122. Andrei Martyanov [AKA "SmoothieX12"] says: • Website
    @Kiza
    I am not sure I understand your cryptic comment, but this list shows countries which actively participated in the war and could have stayed out of it. Remember how much Tolstoy was against helping the Serbian "brothers and sisters" in their fight against the Western darling Turkey? The Tzar did not have to come to aid of Serbia when it was attacked by AH empire. This would not have given a chance to Germany to foment October Revolution and Russia would probably still be an empire, counter balancing the Mad American Rulers of the World.

    I am not sure I understand your cryptic comment

    Sobolev gives an outstanding description of Paleologue’s both public appearances in Russia and the drums of war he helped to start prior to the start of WW I. Simply unrivaled literature, which also gives, mostly correctly, a great description of factors which precipitated the collapse of Imperial Russia in WW I. All that is done in a virtuoso Russian language. The book, which is classic, reads easily and with pleasure. All characters in the book are recognizable and come across as completely real. This book is also a Soviet/Russian Navy’s ultimate book. It is also one of the books, among several others, not least of which is Alexey Tolstoy’s Ordeal (Хождение По Мукам), which made me quit reading Solzhenitsyn’s tedious, completely contrived filled with stillborn splint (лубок) characters, The Red Wheel. Tried several times–failed. I guess my literary tastes are primitive.

    Per Leo Tolstoy–he stated everything he needed to state in War And Peace, he was, what today can only be described as peacenik or, rather, war hater. Tolstoy’s understanding, however at times peculiar, of the nature of war (there is certainly the case to be made, and it was, on Tolstoy-Clausewitz dyadic contradictions) gave him the right, as a former combat officer, to pass the judgement on the issue. General Dragomirov, while serving as a superintendent of Imperial General Staff Academy was making officers studying there read and learn War And Peace as a greatest war book ever written.

    Read More
  123. Jake says:
    @Kiza
    Only an F-marked student of history can share your optimism, but it is a pleasant delusion. The West and Russia have never been friends and this is now even less likely for many, many reasons.

    The optimism that has me praying for the outcome? If I were certain of it, I would so assert.

    The West now needs to be allied with Russia. That is NOT synonymous with asserting that the West will ally with Russia.

    Read More
  124. @Andrei Martyanov

    But I think that most supplies were brought up by rail, so the conditions of the roads might not have made a huge difference.
     
    You are mistaking two types of logistics--one strategic (rail) another field one. Tanks, artillery and infantry do not fight on rails, they fight on land (ground) and they move, sometimes very far and fast from key railroad points (knots). All those supplies from rail must be delivered to field units by (in our case of WW II) trucks and horses, and that is where Rasputitsa became not just operational, albeit it too, but a strategic factor. The logistics "train" (quotation marks intentional) is roughly a flow of supplies per unit under different combat conditions and those units could be removed from rail by many miles. Roads or lack thereof in this case do become a strategic factor.

    I think that it was in Alexander Werth’s Russia at War, that one commentator said that if General Winter had been a Russian, he would have been shot for treason.
     
    Werth's timeless work of both history and culture, which still did not lose most of its appeal, is truly a collection of incredible observations and.... one liners. It should be a must-read primer on Great Patriotic War for any westerner who wants to understand those epic events. Winter did play a crucial role in 1941 but what must be understood, especially when one goes over Krivosheev's works--how significant, sometimes in many tens of thousands (each year), was a number of frostbitten soldiers in Red Army's Winter operations.

    You are mistaking two types of logistics–one strategic (rail) another field one. Tanks, artillery and infantry do not fight on rails, they fight on land (ground) and they move, sometimes very far and fast from key railroad points (knots).

    On the topic of German logistics and trains running on time – it was pure comedy gold! No, seriously. Probably, the reason behind absolutely gigantic, systematic clusterfuck that it was lied in the simple fact that the idea of the patented German Ordnung was a lie. Or, to be more precise, that it existed only on the local level. Less than a century ago there were no Germany per se. Now, it had been cobbled together. Before that this fabled Ordnung was tiny, Barbie-sized. Every given Free City, Duchy, Country, Bishopric and Barony did maintain its own nice, pleasant cities and fields… fucked over neighbors, raping, looting and pillaging their territory given half a chance. Now, the idea of applying this previously very much local Ordnung on the global scale, let alone on Germany itself was as entertaining and feasible as trying to “pull an owl over a school globe” (c)

    A. Speer went to the Eastern front in his newly minted capacity as the Reichsminister in late 1941. He left rather extensive and very scathing memoirs, describing the set of affairs back then. It turns out, that there were 3 (three) completely independent from each other organizations who were put in charge of different aspects of the railroad transportations for the Wermacht with precious little in the way of accountability and, well, Ordnung. All group of armies “South” had been freezing to death – the railroad stretch of Kiev-Dniepropetrovsk-Stalino was not functioning. How come?

    First category of the railroad troops (Eisenbahnpioniertruppe) were under the command of General-lieutenant Otto Vil, who in turn was subordinate to the infantry general Rudolf Gerke, head of the military-transport service. Second category – the civilian railroad workers of Reichsbahn, who answered only to minister Julius Dorpmuller. And, finally, Todt guys who, in theory would have to answer to Speer himself. When he asked Hitler to allocated 30 000 workers for repair and maintenance of the railroads in the Ukraine Hitler told Speer to go and fuck himself. Instead there were more reforms, optimization and attempts to bring Ordnung to bear.

    They screwed up. As the result of the reform from 4 January 1942 the control over railroads in the East had been transferred to the Civilian railroad workers of the Reichsbahn, who’d have their own separate Eastern Directorate of the Reaichsministry of Transport (Zweigstelle Osten des RVM). BUT! At the same time the same order excluded from this transfer and kept under the control of the Railroad Troops 3 (three) field railroads (Feldeisenbahns) and their directions, created in 1941 prior to the invasion into the USSR (Feldeisenbahndirektionen, FBD): the one for the group of the Armies North, Center and South. The same insane order created in the Warsaw special Military Directorate of the Railroads (Feldbetriebsleitung beim Chef des Transportwesens)

    What it meant in reality? Civilians who had absolutely no idea about how things should be done in the first place in the East were put officially in “charge” – not counting that situation might, oh, I dunno, change any moment now. At the same time Military Railroad Troops flip them a bird, while resenting their official status. And into that had been put Speer with no clearly defined authority, sphere of responsibility and resources, tasked with maintenance and repair of the railroads. By mid 1942 he more or less subordinated everyone else to himself – but it was too late. The damage was done.

    Not only that! Speer writes, that in 1944 they finally decided to review what has been produced by the publishing industry in order to more “optimize” it, given shortages and shitty situation within, he find out that one particular typography in Leipzig had been dutifully performing its order from the Army’s High Command to produce (in many copies!) maps of Persia and Farsi speak-books, which they got in 1941. The higher ups simply forgot to cancel the order.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Diversity Heretic
    Given the shortcomings in German organization (the entire existence of the Waffen SS being example number one), it's surprising that they did as well as they did.
  125. CalDre says:
    @Lyttenburgh

    There is reason for mutual hate. Assuming Russian Jews are Khazars, there’s the whole conquest/diaspora thing
     
    They are not Khazars. But even if they were - they started this first, by making several Eastern Slavic tribes paying their tribute - Polans aroung Kiev included.

    the Pale of Settlements, the discrimination, the pogroms
     
    Then place the blame on the ethnicities who did these pogroms - i.e. Polaks and Ukrainians. Not the Russians. Besides, the Pale of the Settlement was only for those of the Judaistic Faith - convert, and you are free to travel beyond it. How do you think Alissa Rozenbaum's (future Ayn Rand) family got themselves a hefty gesheft earning apothecary in the imperial capitol of St. Pete?

    They are not Khazars

    And you know this how? I don’t think there is any historical consensus. Have you done genetic testing?

    they started this first, by making several Eastern Slavic tribes paying their tribute

    No doubt that wasn’t the first provocation, but it doesn’t change the point. People who are conquered are often resentful, even if their rulers arguably picked the fight.

    Then place the blame on the ethnicities who did these pogroms

    There were plenty of pogroms in Russia by Russians. Not that some of them weren’t warranted, but, as you know, Jews are always the victim, never the aggressor. Even in Palestine today it is the evil Palestinians harshly oppressing the benevolent Jews.

    Pale of the Settlement was only for those of the Judaistic Faith – convert, and you are free to travel beyond it.

    Indeed, all they had to do was to assimilate to leave – and in fact roaming gangs of Slavic pagan tribes weren’t allowed in Orthodox Russia either, certainly not in positions of power. Many Jews don’t want to assimilate because they deem themselves superior to their “hosts” (and not only because of the “chosen people” garbage, there’s much more to it).

    I should add, when the Jews brought Bolshevik totalitarianism to Russia, they got their payback against both the Orthodox Church and the Czars (who, of course, were Germanic, not Slavic) – and then some, and then some, and then some. Indeed after the Czar and Christian genocide perpetrated by vengeful Jew Bolsheviks, they had gotten rid of their “nemesis”. But, alas, along comes Stalin, steals the throne from Trotsky, and purges many Jews (which is the true “Betrayal of the Revolution” Jews worldwide were whining about at the time, and actually still do whine about). Finally when the Communists fell and the oligarchs took over, it turns out the vast vast majority of oligarchs were Jews (like they still are in Ukraine). And Putin put an end (there is still a very disproportionate number of Jewish oligarchs, but they are not all Jewish, and now they no longer control the entire mass media – and in the Jewish media of the world, this makes Putin a Hitler and a thug; to me he is a hero).

    Read More
    • Agree: Z-man
    • Replies: @Lyttenburgh

    And you know this how? I don’t think there is any historical consensus. Have you done genetic testing?
     
    I know this because this is an established historical fact. Khazars were Turkic people from somewhere in the Central Asia (more or less from the territory of the present day Samarkand), who migrated to the northern Black Sea Reagion and converted to the Judaism. This is confidrmed by ethnologicl, archeological, linguisinc and historical reasearch conducted for the last couple of centuries.

    If you have any proof to the contrary, I'd like to see it.

    No doubt that wasn’t the first provocation, but it doesn’t change the point. People who are conquered are often resentful, even if their rulers arguably picked the fight.
     
    "Provocation"? Slavic tribes were literally made to pay them tribute. Next - if who started what is not important, as you claim, then why did you went over the heels trying to prove that the "Russians" started it?

    There were plenty of pogroms in Russia by Russians.
     
    Again - can you prove that? Because, here, look - several maps.

    1) The map of the Pale of Settlement in Czarist Russia (red line):

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c0/Map_showing_the_percentage_of_Jews_in_the_Pale_of_Settlement_and_Congress_Poland%2C_The_Jewish_Encyclopedia_%281905%29.jpg

    That's was the place where the Jews were allowed to settle while still practising their faith. As seen in this map, showing the % of Jewish population in various parts of the Pale:

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f7/Map_showing_percentage_of_Jews_in_the_Pale_of_Settlement_and_Congress_Poland%2C_c._1905.png

    2) And this is the map of pogroms in 1871-1906:

    https://fcit.usf.edu/holocaust/gifs/pogroms.gif

    The article in Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Jewish_pogroms_in_the_Russian_Empire) admits, that "...and it was within [the "Pale of Settlement"] that the pogroms largely took place." Article also mentions, that first pogrom to take place out of the Pale of Swttlement (in Nizhniy Novgorod) happened only in 1905 - during the time of the First Russian Revolution

    3) Finally, this is the modern map of Eastern Europe:

    http://www.tourister.ru/world/europe

    Now, one of the following must be true. If you insist that it were (mainly/exclusively) Russians who pogrommed the Jews back then, then you have to assime that all those countries shown in the (3) were populated by them alone. Or if you allow the thought that in the past the territory that will eventually become present day Poland, Lithuania and Ukraine had been populated by Polaks, Lithuanians and Ukrs, who did the pogroming.

    ...and in fact roaming gangs of Slavic pagan tribes weren’t allowed in Orthodox Russia either, certainly not in positions of power...
     
    What the... Just what do you mean by that?

    the Czars (who, of course, were Germanic, not Slavic)
     
    The blood of the Czars was irrelevant. They were perceived as Russians - period.

    Indeed after the Czar and Christian genocide perpetrated by vengeful Jew Bolsheviks
     
    There was no "Christian genocide". No one recognizes it as such. Be careful with the terms you use.
  126. @utu
    "Solshenitzyn was a good writer and a great man."

    Agree! One of the greatest.

    His finest para, to my mind was

    “And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?… The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin’s thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If…if…We didn’t love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation…. We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.”
    ― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    A lesson that, I fear will be learned shortly in the US.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Lyttenburgh

    Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city
     
    With this phrase alone Alexander Isayevich once again confirms that he was, indeed, soLZHEnitsyn.
  127. I received this comment from a (nick) Red Engineer
    You have mistaken Putin’s thoughtful, cool-headedness for timidity. Would you rather have some short-fused hothead as president of the RF who actually responds with lethal force to every Western provocation? After over a thousand years of being invaded by their neighbors, who are we to advise Russia on the correct responses to threats? Russians have a long memory compared to the attention-deficit West.

    Russia can mobilize more soldiers faster than any other country on the planet. Sure, they could take Kiev, but why would they want it? Ukraine is an economic basket case. The West broke it, let them fix it.

    Read More
  128. @CalDre

    They are not Khazars
     
    And you know this how? I don't think there is any historical consensus. Have you done genetic testing?

    they started this first, by making several Eastern Slavic tribes paying their tribute
     
    No doubt that wasn't the first provocation, but it doesn't change the point. People who are conquered are often resentful, even if their rulers arguably picked the fight.

    Then place the blame on the ethnicities who did these pogroms
     
    There were plenty of pogroms in Russia by Russians. Not that some of them weren't warranted, but, as you know, Jews are always the victim, never the aggressor. Even in Palestine today it is the evil Palestinians harshly oppressing the benevolent Jews.

    Pale of the Settlement was only for those of the Judaistic Faith – convert, and you are free to travel beyond it.
     
    Indeed, all they had to do was to assimilate to leave - and in fact roaming gangs of Slavic pagan tribes weren't allowed in Orthodox Russia either, certainly not in positions of power. Many Jews don't want to assimilate because they deem themselves superior to their "hosts" (and not only because of the "chosen people" garbage, there's much more to it).

    I should add, when the Jews brought Bolshevik totalitarianism to Russia, they got their payback against both the Orthodox Church and the Czars (who, of course, were Germanic, not Slavic) - and then some, and then some, and then some. Indeed after the Czar and Christian genocide perpetrated by vengeful Jew Bolsheviks, they had gotten rid of their "nemesis". But, alas, along comes Stalin, steals the throne from Trotsky, and purges many Jews (which is the true "Betrayal of the Revolution" Jews worldwide were whining about at the time, and actually still do whine about). Finally when the Communists fell and the oligarchs took over, it turns out the vast vast majority of oligarchs were Jews (like they still are in Ukraine). And Putin put an end (there is still a very disproportionate number of Jewish oligarchs, but they are not all Jewish, and now they no longer control the entire mass media - and in the Jewish media of the world, this makes Putin a Hitler and a thug; to me he is a hero).

    And you know this how? I don’t think there is any historical consensus. Have you done genetic testing?

    I know this because this is an established historical fact. Khazars were Turkic people from somewhere in the Central Asia (more or less from the territory of the present day Samarkand), who migrated to the northern Black Sea Reagion and converted to the Judaism. This is confidrmed by ethnologicl, archeological, linguisinc and historical reasearch conducted for the last couple of centuries.

    If you have any proof to the contrary, I’d like to see it.

    No doubt that wasn’t the first provocation, but it doesn’t change the point. People who are conquered are often resentful, even if their rulers arguably picked the fight.

    “Provocation”? Slavic tribes were literally made to pay them tribute. Next – if who started what is not important, as you claim, then why did you went over the heels trying to prove that the “Russians” started it?

    There were plenty of pogroms in Russia by Russians.

    Again – can you prove that? Because, here, look – several maps.

    1) The map of the Pale of Settlement in Czarist Russia (red line):

    That’s was the place where the Jews were allowed to settle while still practising their faith. As seen in this map, showing the % of Jewish population in various parts of the Pale:

    2) And this is the map of pogroms in 1871-1906:

    The article in Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Jewish_pogroms_in_the_Russian_Empire) admits, that “…and it was within [the "Pale of Settlement"] that the pogroms largely took place.” Article also mentions, that first pogrom to take place out of the Pale of Swttlement (in Nizhniy Novgorod) happened only in 1905 – during the time of the First Russian Revolution

    3) Finally, this is the modern map of Eastern Europe:

    http://www.tourister.ru/world/europe

    Now, one of the following must be true. If you insist that it were (mainly/exclusively) Russians who pogrommed the Jews back then, then you have to assime that all those countries shown in the (3) were populated by them alone. Or if you allow the thought that in the past the territory that will eventually become present day Poland, Lithuania and Ukraine had been populated by Polaks, Lithuanians and Ukrs, who did the pogroming.

    …and in fact roaming gangs of Slavic pagan tribes weren’t allowed in Orthodox Russia either, certainly not in positions of power…

    What the… Just what do you mean by that?

    the Czars (who, of course, were Germanic, not Slavic)

    The blood of the Czars was irrelevant. They were perceived as Russians – period.

    Indeed after the Czar and Christian genocide perpetrated by vengeful Jew Bolsheviks

    There was no “Christian genocide”. No one recognizes it as such. Be careful with the terms you use.

    Read More
    • Replies: @CalDre

    I know this because this is an established historical fact.
     
    Whenever someone writes this, it generally means they are closed-minded. People don't even know whether it is a "fact" that Russia has invaded Ukraine in the last few years - there are only opinions. There's virtually no such thing as "established historical fact". Well, it is probably an established fact that there was a Russian Empire and a British Empire, but very few details about these Empires that people would agree on.

    As to evidence contrary to your "established historical fact", see for example here and here (Nebel, Behar and Elhaik studies).


    “Provocation”? Slavic tribes were literally made to pay them tribute.
     
    Little about the Khazar Empire is known. But what is known: they shared borders with Slavic tribes. A tribute is a tax; all peasants were taxed (quite harshly by their Russian overlords as well). And the Slavic tribes mounted constant attacks against the Khazars.

    Now, what changed? The Nordics came and conquered the Slav tribes (who also paid tribute to them, of course), and these Nordic-governed Slav tribes (the Kiev Rus) defeated the Khazars and then, for reasons that are not clear (but can be imagined), there was a Khazarian diaspora.

    Do you think Russian Empire did not require tribute of its conquered territories? In 1500s Russia was the size of Denmark and centered around Moscow. How do you think Russia became the largest country in the world? By brutal conquest (though this probably goes against your "established historical facts", lol).



    There were plenty of pogroms in Russia by Russians.
     
    Again – can you prove that? Because, here, look – several maps.
     
    No, I can't prove anything that happened hundreds of years ago, nobody can. But that is the "history" that is passed down, including by Solzhenitsyn in TWO HUNDRED YEARS TOGETHER. See also here.

    If you insist that it were (mainly/exclusively) Russians who pogrommed the Jews back then
     
    I didn't claim that, nor did I insist on it. I only said pogroms were one grievance Jews had against Russians. But Russians clearly are not the only people against whom Jews have had grievances.

    There was no “Christian genocide”. No one recognizes it as such.
     
    There most undoubtedly was a Christian genocide. You must be a Communist apologist? It certainly would fit in with your mythology about "established historical fact".

    There were very fine records maintained of the clergy killed, the churches destroyed, etc. There are countless resources available to study this - many estimates put the number of Christian victims of Bolshevism at 20 million. The Bolsheviks desired, both as part of ideology and as part of tactics and strategy, to destroy Christianity, and not just by expelling Christians from Russian (as Hitler wanted to expel Jews from Europe), which could not happen because Russia was predominantly (85%+) Christian; so their tactic was to use terror, violence, destruction and mass killings, all with the goal of eradicating Christianity (which is the very definition of genocide).

  129. @Bill Jones
    His finest para, to my mind was
    "
    “And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?... The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation.... We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.”
    ― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn


    A lesson that, I fear will be learned shortly in the US.

    Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city

    With this phrase alone Alexander Isayevich once again confirms that he was, indeed, soLZHEnitsyn.

    Read More
    • Agree: Andrei Martyanov
    • Replies: @utu
    How many then?

    The Great Terror in Leningrad: A Quantitative Analysis, Melanie Ilic, Europe-Asia Studies
    Vol. 52, No. 8 (Dec., 2000), pp. 1515-1534
  130. Boris N says:
    @Anatoly Karlin
    I never went to school, don't have any experience with writing in Russian, and have been overexposed to Anglo culture, so yes, it's no surprise that my texts will sound strange.

    Hopefully this will improve over time.

    I understand that. To be clear I didn’t mock you, my interest is rather scientific. I’m interested in languages and how people learn and think in them. You’re a very good specimen. I asked you about automatic translation because your last text about the wall looks like a poor word-for-word translation. I didn’t realize people really could write thus. Your make hardly a single mistake in morphology, but your syntax and word choice is weird. For example, if that was written by a true foreigner it would likely contain errors in declination or conjugation. But you didn’t, your grammar instincts are still good, you just think in English, but use Russian words. Try not to think in English when you write in Russian. Just switch off your English completely. I cannot say how to do this specifically, you may do some exercises from some textbooks, or you may just try to read more Russian literature to get good patterns into your head.

    Also what I wanted to say. Due to your specific Russian, your blog will unlikely get a wide audience and the police may not find you or just ignore you. Also they may hesitate to persecute you suggesting you’re a foreign citizen and they do not want an international scandal. They rather prefer monitoring Vkontakte and getting easy pickings there.

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  131. utu says:
    @Lyttenburgh

    Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city
     
    With this phrase alone Alexander Isayevich once again confirms that he was, indeed, soLZHEnitsyn.

    How many then?

    The Great Terror in Leningrad: A Quantitative Analysis, Melanie Ilic, Europe-Asia Studies
    Vol. 52, No. 8 (Dec., 2000), pp. 1515-1534

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    • Replies: @Lyttenburgh

    How many then?
     
    You tell me, specifying what time period do you plan to cover and what types of the "innocents" are deeming as such.

    Nice article, btw. Why you didn't provide a direct link to it? Although, it says nothing about "quarter of Leningrad" being repressed.
    , @Andrei Martyanov

    How many then?
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Saint_Petersburg

    Sir, I understand a disaster which "western" public school math is but above is the link to Leningrad's demographics. Bar a catastrophic Leningrad Siege of 1941-1944, Leningrad's population constantly grew. Now, do you understand what it means to "arrest the quarter" of the almost 3-million city? Have you any concept of how it will look like? Some of my relatives are Leningraders (there were also Blokadniki among them). In my life I knew (friends, classmates, partners in business etc.) hundreds of Leningraders--none of them had anyone thrown in GULAG nor they knew anyone. Do you understand what GULAG Archipelago by Solzh is? He himself characterized it as Experience In Literary Study. Even in Russia it goes under the header of художественно-историческая (that is FICTION-historical) literature. While nobody denies existence of GULAG and repressions all of them are on TWO, not even one, order of magnitude smaller than what Solzh concocted in his GULAG literature and a bunch sycophants who surrounded him. He is totally derivative (despite his arrogant claim to the status of modern Dostoevsky) to a great Russian literature and so are most of his "thoughts". He lied all his life and that is why publicist "literature" is a combination of a complete ignorance and megalomania--be it his "Letter To Chiefs Of Soviet Union" through his KNOR (How We Are To Rearrange Russia). His views on WW II have been debunked utterly on very many occasions. But sure, it is your taste and you are free to do whatever you want with it.
  132. @Andrei Martyanov
    Putin is legalist, he always was. In the end, he is a lawyer by trade and his parallel life as lower-mid-level operative (operativnik) is hardly remarkable until his meteoric rise to the chair of FSB director. Despite wearing military epaulets and rank for a large part of his adult life, he was also removed pretty far from Soviet/Russian military and started to "get it" realistically only after his creature, Serdyukov, created such a mess that it required urgent, on the run, rethinking of the whole so called "reform". The same goes for his economic views: lawyers and industry do not mix together very well.

    Actually, he also spent time as an inward investment promoter in St Petersburg. His head is definitely Free Market but his heart seems to be protectionist. He spent a lot of time visiting factories as PM. Medvedev seems to have a more visceral understanding of Free Trade and the macro economics of business in general.

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    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov

    Actually, he also spent time as an inward investment promoter in St Petersburg. His head is definitely Free Market but his heart seems to be protectionist.
     
    Being "formed" as a politician by such boss as Anatoly Sobchak (a slime-bag of cosmic proportions) Putin has never been able to reconcile Russia's economic realities and a "free market" economic dogma. I think he is learning and I hope that he understands now that he must address the core issue of Russia's contemporary history--the results of unprecedented robbery of Russian people by the class of "oligarchs" who are represented today by Russia's "economic block" of Medvedev.

    Medvedev seems to have a more visceral understanding of Free Trade and the macro economics of business in genera
     
    Medvedev has only one understanding--how to enrich the class he represents. He is very недалёкий (in English--not far off, narrow-minded, average, not smart etc.) man and it shows.
  133. @utu
    How many then?

    The Great Terror in Leningrad: A Quantitative Analysis, Melanie Ilic, Europe-Asia Studies
    Vol. 52, No. 8 (Dec., 2000), pp. 1515-1534

    How many then?

    You tell me, specifying what time period do you plan to cover and what types of the “innocents” are deeming as such.

    Nice article, btw. Why you didn’t provide a direct link to it? Although, it says nothing about “quarter of Leningrad” being repressed.

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    • Replies: @utu
    So you are going to decide who was innocent and who was "innocent", right? Could you tell us about your parents and great parents and when did they begin their careers with NKVD? Your type of thinking runs usually in multigenerational families of security apparatus employees.

    The article is behind the paywall. I have no access to it.

  134. utu says:
    @Lyttenburgh

    How many then?
     
    You tell me, specifying what time period do you plan to cover and what types of the "innocents" are deeming as such.

    Nice article, btw. Why you didn't provide a direct link to it? Although, it says nothing about "quarter of Leningrad" being repressed.

    So you are going to decide who was innocent and who was “innocent”, right? Could you tell us about your parents and great parents and when did they begin their careers with NKVD? Your type of thinking runs usually in multigenerational families of security apparatus employees.

    The article is behind the paywall. I have no access to it.

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    • Replies: @Lyttenburgh

    So you are going to decide who was innocent and who was “innocent”, right?
     
    Not me, but neither you. Only competent Organs can do that. If the people were guilty of breaking the law then, obviously, they were not innocent. At the same time, we know for sure about re-habilitation and review of the causes that began right after the Big Purge, so even the Soviet Authorities understood that there were indeed some innocents caught in.

    Could you tell us about your parents and great parents and when did they begin their careers with NKVD?
     
    My parents were born after NKVD changed its name, so I'd like to talk about my grandparents and grand-grandparents instead - that'd be more historically accurate.

    Grand-grand parents. They were of the worker-peasant-soldier background. One of them was the member of KomBed and was shot by kulaks during the Civil War. Others joined Red Partisans in their fight against Kolchak and met the end of the War liberating Far East.

    Grandparents - first-gen factory workers in Ural. None of them was repressed. 21 of them, though fought in the Great Patritic War. 19 of them lost their lives.

    Your type of thinking runs usually in multigenerational families of security apparatus employees.
     
    Where can I read this monograph "The thinking paptters in multigenerational families of security apparatus employees", which you, obviously, published and received a great acclaim for that?

    No, my way ofthinking operates on learning and researching facts. You, OTOH, is a good example why some people sincerely believe in the Fake News. You don't want to learn anything. You operate on belief alone.

    The article is behind the paywall. I have no access to it.
     
    So you recomened me an article which you didn't even read? Ah... why?
  135. @Andrei Martyanov

    But I think that most supplies were brought up by rail, so the conditions of the roads might not have made a huge difference.
     
    You are mistaking two types of logistics--one strategic (rail) another field one. Tanks, artillery and infantry do not fight on rails, they fight on land (ground) and they move, sometimes very far and fast from key railroad points (knots). All those supplies from rail must be delivered to field units by (in our case of WW II) trucks and horses, and that is where Rasputitsa became not just operational, albeit it too, but a strategic factor. The logistics "train" (quotation marks intentional) is roughly a flow of supplies per unit under different combat conditions and those units could be removed from rail by many miles. Roads or lack thereof in this case do become a strategic factor.

    I think that it was in Alexander Werth’s Russia at War, that one commentator said that if General Winter had been a Russian, he would have been shot for treason.
     
    Werth's timeless work of both history and culture, which still did not lose most of its appeal, is truly a collection of incredible observations and.... one liners. It should be a must-read primer on Great Patriotic War for any westerner who wants to understand those epic events. Winter did play a crucial role in 1941 but what must be understood, especially when one goes over Krivosheev's works--how significant, sometimes in many tens of thousands (each year), was a number of frostbitten soldiers in Red Army's Winter operations.

    Thank you for your clarification. Yes, obviously, unless a unit just happens to be right next to a railhead, supplies must be off-loaded onto trucks or carts and taken to the units in the field. At that point the conditions of the road make a difference. I do wonder, however, much difference a “frozen” road would make over an “unfrozen” one after the passage of a few trucks or carts. The closer the temperature climbs to freezing the more the roads would turn to mud after the passage of only a few vehicles. A tank in the field, by contrast, is generally advancing over ground not previously traversed by a vehicle.

    Past 1941, it seems winter affected both sides equally.

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    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov

    I do wonder, however, much difference a “frozen” road would make over an “unfrozen” one after the passage of a few trucks or carts. The closer the temperature climbs to freezing the more the roads would turn to mud after the passage of only a few vehicles.
     
    Soil solidifies extremely well in about -8-10 C and below. Those are standard temperatures for a vast theater of operations which Eastern Front was, with some minor exceptions of more Southerly areas, such as Caucasus. In general, most of the theater is within sharp continental climate zone: cold Winters, very warm or hot Summers. Winter of 1941 was certainly very cold and while that solidified the soil, it also created other problem with Wehrmacht equipment breaking down or malfunctioning in such temperatures. That became one of the major arguments in Wehrmacht's long list of excuses and that is why Wehrmacht talked a lot about facing Red Army in "normal" not-Winter conditions. Well, Red Army certainly accommodated such a desire at Kursk and well into Berlin.

    P.S. Recall Road Of Life in besieged Leningrad--it was all due to frost.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_of_Life
  136. @Lyttenburgh

    You are mistaking two types of logistics–one strategic (rail) another field one. Tanks, artillery and infantry do not fight on rails, they fight on land (ground) and they move, sometimes very far and fast from key railroad points (knots).
     
    On the topic of German logistics and trains running on time – it was pure comedy gold! No, seriously. Probably, the reason behind absolutely gigantic, systematic clusterfuck that it was lied in the simple fact that the idea of the patented German Ordnung was a lie. Or, to be more precise, that it existed only on the local level. Less than a century ago there were no Germany per se. Now, it had been cobbled together. Before that this fabled Ordnung was tiny, Barbie-sized. Every given Free City, Duchy, Country, Bishopric and Barony did maintain its own nice, pleasant cities and fields… fucked over neighbors, raping, looting and pillaging their territory given half a chance. Now, the idea of applying this previously very much local Ordnung on the global scale, let alone on Germany itself was as entertaining and feasible as trying to “pull an owl over a school globe” (c)

    A. Speer went to the Eastern front in his newly minted capacity as the Reichsminister in late 1941. He left rather extensive and very scathing memoirs, describing the set of affairs back then. It turns out, that there were 3 (three) completely independent from each other organizations who were put in charge of different aspects of the railroad transportations for the Wermacht with precious little in the way of accountability and, well, Ordnung. All group of armies “South” had been freezing to death – the railroad stretch of Kiev-Dniepropetrovsk-Stalino was not functioning. How come?

    First category of the railroad troops (Eisenbahnpioniertruppe) were under the command of General-lieutenant Otto Vil, who in turn was subordinate to the infantry general Rudolf Gerke, head of the military-transport service. Second category – the civilian railroad workers of Reichsbahn, who answered only to minister Julius Dorpmuller. And, finally, Todt guys who, in theory would have to answer to Speer himself. When he asked Hitler to allocated 30 000 workers for repair and maintenance of the railroads in the Ukraine Hitler told Speer to go and fuck himself. Instead there were more reforms, optimization and attempts to bring Ordnung to bear.

    They screwed up. As the result of the reform from 4 January 1942 the control over railroads in the East had been transferred to the Civilian railroad workers of the Reichsbahn, who’d have their own separate Eastern Directorate of the Reaichsministry of Transport (Zweigstelle Osten des RVM). BUT! At the same time the same order excluded from this transfer and kept under the control of the Railroad Troops 3 (three) field railroads (Feldeisenbahns) and their directions, created in 1941 prior to the invasion into the USSR (Feldeisenbahndirektionen, FBD): the one for the group of the Armies North, Center and South. The same insane order created in the Warsaw special Military Directorate of the Railroads (Feldbetriebsleitung beim Chef des Transportwesens)

    What it meant in reality? Civilians who had absolutely no idea about how things should be done in the first place in the East were put officially in “charge” – not counting that situation might, oh, I dunno, change any moment now. At the same time Military Railroad Troops flip them a bird, while resenting their official status. And into that had been put Speer with no clearly defined authority, sphere of responsibility and resources, tasked with maintenance and repair of the railroads. By mid 1942 he more or less subordinated everyone else to himself – but it was too late. The damage was done.

    Not only that! Speer writes, that in 1944 they finally decided to review what has been produced by the publishing industry in order to more “optimize” it, given shortages and shitty situation within, he find out that one particular typography in Leipzig had been dutifully performing its order from the Army’s High Command to produce (in many copies!) maps of Persia and Farsi speak-books, which they got in 1941. The higher ups simply forgot to cancel the order.

    Given the shortcomings in German organization (the entire existence of the Waffen SS being example number one), it’s surprising that they did as well as they did.

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    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov

    it’s surprising that they did as well as they did.
     
    Mentioned here Alexander Werth gives a description of the event (he was present too) when immediately after the conclusion of Stalingrad Battle Charles De Gaulle (and a train load of foreign correspondents) was taken to Stalingrad. There, standing on the shore of Volga he repeated several times" "What a great people, what a great people!". Foreign correspondents who heard this readily put words into his mouth: "You mean, of course, Russians". De Gaulle responded:"No, Germans. What a great people, to get that far". I guess French have some say in this matter;-)
  137. Andrei Martyanov [AKA "SmoothieX12"] says: • Website
    @Philip Owen
    Actually, he also spent time as an inward investment promoter in St Petersburg. His head is definitely Free Market but his heart seems to be protectionist. He spent a lot of time visiting factories as PM. Medvedev seems to have a more visceral understanding of Free Trade and the macro economics of business in general.

    Actually, he also spent time as an inward investment promoter in St Petersburg. His head is definitely Free Market but his heart seems to be protectionist.

    Being “formed” as a politician by such boss as Anatoly Sobchak (a slime-bag of cosmic proportions) Putin has never been able to reconcile Russia’s economic realities and a “free market” economic dogma. I think he is learning and I hope that he understands now that he must address the core issue of Russia’s contemporary history–the results of unprecedented robbery of Russian people by the class of “oligarchs” who are represented today by Russia’s “economic block” of Medvedev.

    Medvedev seems to have a more visceral understanding of Free Trade and the macro economics of business in genera

    Medvedev has only one understanding–how to enrich the class he represents. He is very недалёкий (in English–not far off, narrow-minded, average, not smart etc.) man and it shows.

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  138. Andrei Martyanov [AKA "SmoothieX12"] says: • Website
    @Diversity Heretic
    Given the shortcomings in German organization (the entire existence of the Waffen SS being example number one), it's surprising that they did as well as they did.

    it’s surprising that they did as well as they did.

    Mentioned here Alexander Werth gives a description of the event (he was present too) when immediately after the conclusion of Stalingrad Battle Charles De Gaulle (and a train load of foreign correspondents) was taken to Stalingrad. There, standing on the shore of Volga he repeated several times” “What a great people, what a great people!”. Foreign correspondents who heard this readily put words into his mouth: “You mean, of course, Russians”. De Gaulle responded:”No, Germans. What a great people, to get that far”. I guess French have some say in this matter;-)

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  139. Andrei Martyanov [AKA "SmoothieX12"] says: • Website
    @Diversity Heretic
    Thank you for your clarification. Yes, obviously, unless a unit just happens to be right next to a railhead, supplies must be off-loaded onto trucks or carts and taken to the units in the field. At that point the conditions of the road make a difference. I do wonder, however, much difference a "frozen" road would make over an "unfrozen" one after the passage of a few trucks or carts. The closer the temperature climbs to freezing the more the roads would turn to mud after the passage of only a few vehicles. A tank in the field, by contrast, is generally advancing over ground not previously traversed by a vehicle.

    Past 1941, it seems winter affected both sides equally.

    I do wonder, however, much difference a “frozen” road would make over an “unfrozen” one after the passage of a few trucks or carts. The closer the temperature climbs to freezing the more the roads would turn to mud after the passage of only a few vehicles.

    Soil solidifies extremely well in about -8-10 C and below. Those are standard temperatures for a vast theater of operations which Eastern Front was, with some minor exceptions of more Southerly areas, such as Caucasus. In general, most of the theater is within sharp continental climate zone: cold Winters, very warm or hot Summers. Winter of 1941 was certainly very cold and while that solidified the soil, it also created other problem with Wehrmacht equipment breaking down or malfunctioning in such temperatures. That became one of the major arguments in Wehrmacht’s long list of excuses and that is why Wehrmacht talked a lot about facing Red Army in “normal” not-Winter conditions. Well, Red Army certainly accommodated such a desire at Kursk and well into Berlin.

    P.S. Recall Road Of Life in besieged Leningrad–it was all due to frost.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_of_Life

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  140. Andrei Martyanov [AKA "SmoothieX12"] says: • Website
    @utu
    How many then?

    The Great Terror in Leningrad: A Quantitative Analysis, Melanie Ilic, Europe-Asia Studies
    Vol. 52, No. 8 (Dec., 2000), pp. 1515-1534

    How many then?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Saint_Petersburg

    Sir, I understand a disaster which “western” public school math is but above is the link to Leningrad’s demographics. Bar a catastrophic Leningrad Siege of 1941-1944, Leningrad’s population constantly grew. Now, do you understand what it means to “arrest the quarter” of the almost 3-million city? Have you any concept of how it will look like? Some of my relatives are Leningraders (there were also Blokadniki among them). In my life I knew (friends, classmates, partners in business etc.) hundreds of Leningraders–none of them had anyone thrown in GULAG nor they knew anyone. Do you understand what GULAG Archipelago by Solzh is? He himself characterized it as Experience In Literary Study. Even in Russia it goes under the header of художественно-историческая (that is FICTION-historical) literature. While nobody denies existence of GULAG and repressions all of them are on TWO, not even one, order of magnitude smaller than what Solzh concocted in his GULAG literature and a bunch sycophants who surrounded him. He is totally derivative (despite his arrogant claim to the status of modern Dostoevsky) to a great Russian literature and so are most of his “thoughts”. He lied all his life and that is why publicist “literature” is a combination of a complete ignorance and megalomania–be it his “Letter To Chiefs Of Soviet Union” through his KNOR (How We Are To Rearrange Russia). His views on WW II have been debunked utterly on very many occasions. But sure, it is your taste and you are free to do whatever you want with it.

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    • Replies: @utu
    Ok. Solzhenitsyn exaggerated. But by how much? How many people in Leningrad were arrested during the purge in 1930s? 50,000? 100,000?, 250,000? You get all upset with Solzhenitsyn but you have no numbers. You do not care, right? When Solzhenitsyn wrote he had no access to any archives. All information was from clandestine sources collected by ex prisoners like himself. And 50 or so years later you make a big deal of it but still can't provide accurate information. Or are you going to be like the unreformed Stalinist Lyttenburgh who dares to question whether they were innocent or guilty by writing "innocent" in the quotation marks?
  141. CalDre says:
    @Lyttenburgh

    And you know this how? I don’t think there is any historical consensus. Have you done genetic testing?
     
    I know this because this is an established historical fact. Khazars were Turkic people from somewhere in the Central Asia (more or less from the territory of the present day Samarkand), who migrated to the northern Black Sea Reagion and converted to the Judaism. This is confidrmed by ethnologicl, archeological, linguisinc and historical reasearch conducted for the last couple of centuries.

    If you have any proof to the contrary, I'd like to see it.

    No doubt that wasn’t the first provocation, but it doesn’t change the point. People who are conquered are often resentful, even if their rulers arguably picked the fight.
     
    "Provocation"? Slavic tribes were literally made to pay them tribute. Next - if who started what is not important, as you claim, then why did you went over the heels trying to prove that the "Russians" started it?

    There were plenty of pogroms in Russia by Russians.
     
    Again - can you prove that? Because, here, look - several maps.

    1) The map of the Pale of Settlement in Czarist Russia (red line):

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c0/Map_showing_the_percentage_of_Jews_in_the_Pale_of_Settlement_and_Congress_Poland%2C_The_Jewish_Encyclopedia_%281905%29.jpg

    That's was the place where the Jews were allowed to settle while still practising their faith. As seen in this map, showing the % of Jewish population in various parts of the Pale:

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f7/Map_showing_percentage_of_Jews_in_the_Pale_of_Settlement_and_Congress_Poland%2C_c._1905.png

    2) And this is the map of pogroms in 1871-1906:

    https://fcit.usf.edu/holocaust/gifs/pogroms.gif

    The article in Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Jewish_pogroms_in_the_Russian_Empire) admits, that "...and it was within [the "Pale of Settlement"] that the pogroms largely took place." Article also mentions, that first pogrom to take place out of the Pale of Swttlement (in Nizhniy Novgorod) happened only in 1905 - during the time of the First Russian Revolution

    3) Finally, this is the modern map of Eastern Europe:

    http://www.tourister.ru/world/europe

    Now, one of the following must be true. If you insist that it were (mainly/exclusively) Russians who pogrommed the Jews back then, then you have to assime that all those countries shown in the (3) were populated by them alone. Or if you allow the thought that in the past the territory that will eventually become present day Poland, Lithuania and Ukraine had been populated by Polaks, Lithuanians and Ukrs, who did the pogroming.

    ...and in fact roaming gangs of Slavic pagan tribes weren’t allowed in Orthodox Russia either, certainly not in positions of power...
     
    What the... Just what do you mean by that?

    the Czars (who, of course, were Germanic, not Slavic)
     
    The blood of the Czars was irrelevant. They were perceived as Russians - period.

    Indeed after the Czar and Christian genocide perpetrated by vengeful Jew Bolsheviks
     
    There was no "Christian genocide". No one recognizes it as such. Be careful with the terms you use.

    I know this because this is an established historical fact.

    Whenever someone writes this, it generally means they are closed-minded. People don’t even know whether it is a “fact” that Russia has invaded Ukraine in the last few years – there are only opinions. There’s virtually no such thing as “established historical fact”. Well, it is probably an established fact that there was a Russian Empire and a British Empire, but very few details about these Empires that people would agree on.

    As to evidence contrary to your “established historical fact”, see for example here and here (Nebel, Behar and Elhaik studies).

    “Provocation”? Slavic tribes were literally made to pay them tribute.

    Little about the Khazar Empire is known. But what is known: they shared borders with Slavic tribes. A tribute is a tax; all peasants were taxed (quite harshly by their Russian overlords as well). And the Slavic tribes mounted constant attacks against the Khazars.

    Now, what changed? The Nordics came and conquered the Slav tribes (who also paid tribute to them, of course), and these Nordic-governed Slav tribes (the Kiev Rus) defeated the Khazars and then, for reasons that are not clear (but can be imagined), there was a Khazarian diaspora.

    Do you think Russian Empire did not require tribute of its conquered territories? In 1500s Russia was the size of Denmark and centered around Moscow. How do you think Russia became the largest country in the world? By brutal conquest (though this probably goes against your “established historical facts”, lol).

    There were plenty of pogroms in Russia by Russians.

    Again – can you prove that? Because, here, look – several maps.

    No, I can’t prove anything that happened hundreds of years ago, nobody can. But that is the “history” that is passed down, including by Solzhenitsyn in TWO HUNDRED YEARS TOGETHER. See also here.

    If you insist that it were (mainly/exclusively) Russians who pogrommed the Jews back then

    I didn’t claim that, nor did I insist on it. I only said pogroms were one grievance Jews had against Russians. But Russians clearly are not the only people against whom Jews have had grievances.

    There was no “Christian genocide”. No one recognizes it as such.

    There most undoubtedly was a Christian genocide. You must be a Communist apologist? It certainly would fit in with your mythology about “established historical fact”.

    There were very fine records maintained of the clergy killed, the churches destroyed, etc. There are countless resources available to study this – many estimates put the number of Christian victims of Bolshevism at 20 million. The Bolsheviks desired, both as part of ideology and as part of tactics and strategy, to destroy Christianity, and not just by expelling Christians from Russian (as Hitler wanted to expel Jews from Europe), which could not happen because Russia was predominantly (85%+) Christian; so their tactic was to use terror, violence, destruction and mass killings, all with the goal of eradicating Christianity (which is the very definition of genocide).

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    • Replies: @utu
    You can go to NYC, Miami or LA and if you have a proper guide you can be shown many older guys and women from SU or Poland who were members of NKVD or KGB or UB (Poland) who by strange reason always were welcomed to the US as refugees in full knowledge they had hectoliters of blood on their hands. However the largest concentration of former members of communist apparatus of repression is in Israel. Those people were never sorry. They never acknowledged what they did. They have not atoned for what they did. The worst is that these people have children and grandchildren who are indoctrinated by them to become another generation of unrepentant Stalinists. Then they come and try to do the whitewash. However it is not surprising they are attracted to Israel Shamir's blog who himself doesn't hide some sympathies for Stalin and some aspect of Stalinism.
    , @Lyttenburgh

    Whenever someone writes this, it generally means they are closed-minded.
     
    May I ask you something? Do you so open-minded to doubt, actively, the existence of the electro-magnetic field? The planet Saturn? That the water is H2O? Just how much are you given to the solipsism in your daily life?

    Also – are you a student of history? What are your evidence and proof, that might somehow “shake the foundation” of already established facts? Or are you, indeed, just an apt example of who are the target auditory of the Fake News?

    People don’t even know whether it is a “fact” that Russia has invaded Ukraine in the last few years – there are only opinions.
     
    That’s the difference between the history and contemporary events. Determining this now is useless and only future generations of historians, with the access of all sorts of data and evidence can determine that – not the pundits and their flock.

    There’s virtually no such thing as “established historical fact”.
     
    Says who? Are you a historian?

    …but very few details about these Empires that people would agree on.
     
    What people? Professional historians or those who don’t bother to study history in the first place?

    From the WikiDorkia article you linked (and, apparently, didn’t read) there is no substantial support for the “Khazars were Jews” theory.

    As for the Brooke’s scribblings (because that’s not how the serious research paper looks like) – this is just ridiculous, and no one takes his baseless facts (and grossly inaccurate translations of the primary sources, like al-Faqih) seriously in the historic community:

    Brook, a resident of Connecticut whose Jewish ancestors immigrated to the United States from Ukraine, Belarus, Lithuania, and Poland, is the moderator of the Eastern European Jewish History (EEJH) discussion list on the Internet and maintains a popular website about the Khazars entitled "The Khazaria Info Center." He has been researching and writing about the history of the Khazars since 1993. Mr. Brook received his BS degree in Business Administration from Bryant College in Smithfield, Rhode Island.
     
    I mean – yeah, who’s better fitted to conduct a historical research and write works on history than an economist!

    Little about the Khazar Empire is known. But what is known: they shared borders with Slavic tribes. A tribute is a tax; all peasants were taxed (quite harshly by their Russian overlords as well). And the Slavic tribes mounted constant attacks against the Khazars.
     
    Have you read Primarily Chronicle of Rus (Повесть Временных Лет)? Do you even know what it is? Besides – you are contradicting yourself in one paragraph! How can we “know little about Khazars” if you dare to claim that “Slavic tribes mounted constant attacks against” them?

    Also – there is a difference between a tax from your own populace and a tribute from the conquered people. I guessed people can see a difference between the two.

    If you’d bothered to read the Primarily Chronicle (to, you know, have any right to comment and claim stuff), then you’d learn that:

    “По прошествии времени, после смерти братьев этих (Кия, Щека и Хорива), стали притеснять полян древляне и иные окрестные люди. И нашли их хазары сидящими на горах этих в лесах и сказали: „Платите нам дань“. Поляне, посовещавшись, дали от дыма по мечу, и отнесли их хазары к своему князю и к старейшинам, и сказали им: „Вот, новую дань нашли мы“. Те же спросили у них: „Откуда?“. Они же ответили: „В лесу на горах над рекою Днепром“.
    Опять спросили те: „А что дали?“. Они же показали меч. И сказали старцы хазарские: „Не добрая дань эта, княже: мы добыли ее оружием, острым только с одной стороны, — саблями, а у этих оружие обоюдоострое — мечи. Им суждено собирать дань и с нас и с иных земель“.
     
    And beside the tribe of polians, others were Khazar tributaries as well:

    “В год 6392 (884). Пошел Олег на северян, и победил северян, и возложил на них легкую дань, и не велел им платить дань хазарам, сказав: „Я враг их“ и вам (им платить) незачем“.

    В год 6393 (885). Послал (Олег) к радимичам, спрашивая: „Кому даете дань?“. Они же ответили: „Хазарам“. И сказал им Олег: „Не давайте хазарам, но платите мне“. И дали Олегу по щелягу, как и хазарам давали.”
     

    Now, what changed? The Nordics came and conquered the Slav tribes (who also paid tribute to them, of course), and these Nordic-governed Slav tribes (the Kiev Rus) defeated the Khazars and then, for reasons that are not clear (but can be imagined), there was a Khazarian diaspora.
     
    Varangians were summoned officially by a tribal union of the Northern Slavs around Novgorod – partially, in response to Khazar’s expansion on other tribes of Slavs, which began long before that. I remind you, that we are talking about what happened first.

    Next – we have no need to “imagine” things, if we know facts. Khazarian diaspora is not a fact, but something out of imagination.

    “Do you think Russian Empire did not require tribute of its conquered territories? In 1500s Russia was the size of Denmark and centered around Moscow.”
     
    May I ask you something? Are you kidding me or you are indeed that ignorant and ill-informed?

    For your enLYTTENment:

    http://dot.mpei.ru/do/eres/hist/data/lesson_3_2_final/data/img/i3_litva.jpg

    Even at the beginning of Ivan III reign the territory of Moscow’s Grand Princedom was bigger than that:

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/04/Daniaeregnitypvs.jpg

    How can anyone treat anything said by you seriously if you repeatedly make such ridiculously stupid claims?

    How do you think Russia became the largest country in the world? By brutal conquest (though this probably goes against your “established historical facts”, lol).
     
    No it doesn’t. Yes, there were conquests. No, they were not always brutal. Siberia had been conquered mostly peacefully. Astrakhan khanate surrendered to Russia without a fight. Numerous Christian Armenian and Gruzian princedoms absolutely voluntary came under Russia’s arm. Only two large clashed happened during that – the initial one, when Yermak and his Cossacks annihilated the last vestige of the Golden Horde in the West Siberia in 1580s, and then in 1750s, when Chukchi went on genocidal rampage on all nearby (Russian tributary) tribes.

    “No, I can’t prove anything that happened hundreds of years ago, nobody can.”
     
    Actually – Yes, We Can! That’s called history. Or are you of the caveman/gnostic worldview that the world around us is un-learnable and always mysterious?

    But that is the “history” that is passed down, including by Solzhenitsyn in TWO HUNDRED YEARS TOGETHER. See also here.
     
    1) Solzhenitsin is not a source.
    2) Yes, and? I’ve linked this article earlier, and quoted from it:

    "…and it was within [the "Pale of Settlement"] that the pogroms largely took place."
     
    Now, what ethnicities made up the majority of population I Malorossia, Poland and Lithuania? Or, what, your worldview prohibits you from learning even such tiny factoid?

    “I didn’t claim that, nor did I insist on it”
     
    No, you said: “There were plenty of pogroms in Russia by Russians.” (http://www.unz.com/ishamir/the-russian-scare/#comment-1796173). I pointed out that this is very doubtful, given that the most of pogroms were behind the Pale of Settlement and the ethnic disposition of those gubernias.

    There most undoubtedly was a Christian genocide. You must be a Communist apologist? It certainly would fit in with your mythology about “established historical fact”.
     
    I’m a person who prefers facts over fiction, researched evidence to imagined facts, and truth to falsehoods. While we are at it – you can also call me an “apologist” to Ivan IV Awesome, Richard III and Gilles de Rais. Because instead of lurid fantasies and slander, I prefer “established historical facts”. If, according to you, this makes me a “Communist apologist”, then your opposition to scientific approach in history (and denial of all logic) makes you an ill-informed person with rather distorted perception of the reality.

    There were very fine records maintained of the clergy killed, the churches destroyed, etc. There are countless resources available to study this – many estimates put the number of Christian victims of Bolshevism at 20 million.
     
    This number alone is so out of any sense, that you could as well just jumped on “Billions Executed Personally By Stalin” (tm) bandwagon of loonies which would undoubtedly saved us time.

    You are mentioning “fine records” – have you read them? You talk about what the Bolsheviks wanted as if you were one or could truly learn that. But didn’t you yourself said earlier that you “can’t prove anything that happened hundreds of years ago”? What about 90, 80 years ago? This you can? Only events more than 100 years ago are your kryptonite? ;)
  142. utu says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    How many then?
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Saint_Petersburg

    Sir, I understand a disaster which "western" public school math is but above is the link to Leningrad's demographics. Bar a catastrophic Leningrad Siege of 1941-1944, Leningrad's population constantly grew. Now, do you understand what it means to "arrest the quarter" of the almost 3-million city? Have you any concept of how it will look like? Some of my relatives are Leningraders (there were also Blokadniki among them). In my life I knew (friends, classmates, partners in business etc.) hundreds of Leningraders--none of them had anyone thrown in GULAG nor they knew anyone. Do you understand what GULAG Archipelago by Solzh is? He himself characterized it as Experience In Literary Study. Even in Russia it goes under the header of художественно-историческая (that is FICTION-historical) literature. While nobody denies existence of GULAG and repressions all of them are on TWO, not even one, order of magnitude smaller than what Solzh concocted in his GULAG literature and a bunch sycophants who surrounded him. He is totally derivative (despite his arrogant claim to the status of modern Dostoevsky) to a great Russian literature and so are most of his "thoughts". He lied all his life and that is why publicist "literature" is a combination of a complete ignorance and megalomania--be it his "Letter To Chiefs Of Soviet Union" through his KNOR (How We Are To Rearrange Russia). His views on WW II have been debunked utterly on very many occasions. But sure, it is your taste and you are free to do whatever you want with it.

    Ok. Solzhenitsyn exaggerated. But by how much? How many people in Leningrad were arrested during the purge in 1930s? 50,000? 100,000?, 250,000? You get all upset with Solzhenitsyn but you have no numbers. You do not care, right? When Solzhenitsyn wrote he had no access to any archives. All information was from clandestine sources collected by ex prisoners like himself. And 50 or so years later you make a big deal of it but still can’t provide accurate information. Or are you going to be like the unreformed Stalinist Lyttenburgh who dares to question whether they were innocent or guilty by writing “innocent” in the quotation marks?

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    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov

    You get all upset with Solzhenitsyn but you have no numbers.
     
    Zemskov----> Google.com

    Ok. Solzhenitsyn exaggerated.
     
    FYI, exaggeration is a LIE but It is more complex than that--he wrote his "own" Russian "History" which has very little to do with the real one. He also was completely insulated (epistolary contacts with Moscow "intelligentsia" don't count) in Vermont those crucial 20 years of Soviet/Russia's history in 1970s and 1980s to completely lack any understanding of modern USSR and what was transpiring there. In general, this bellicose "genius" and self-proclaimed Russia's "consciousness" managed to write after his return "200 Years Together" and that is about it. He certainly got unlucky with Russian nation, which, of course, was never adequate to his, Solzhenitsyn's "genius". He even couldn't understand that he was committing an artistic suicide exhibiting himself as open supporter of Vlasov--one of the most despicable figures in Russian history. That, plus, of course, the fact that pretty much larger half of GULAG Archipelago was literally stolen from Varlam Shalamov. In a grim irony (for Solzhenitsyn and his admirers) he might have continued to be extolled in the West if not a collapse of USSR and eventual opening of Soviet archives. Today, when the whole world have seen what "democracy" means in real life, his "truths" seem not only "outdated" but tasteless. And then again, it seems Russians refer more to Dostoevsky and his Diary than to whatever Solzh concocted. But again, there are people who read Rezun (aka Suvorov) as "history".
    , @Lyttenburgh

    Or are you going to be like the unreformed Stalinist Lyttenburgh who dares to question whether they were innocent or guilty by writing “innocent” in the quotation marks?
     
    http://cs4.pikabu.ru/images/big_size_comm_an/2014-06_3/14026900823568.gif

    Unapologetic. The word is unapologetic. :)
  143. utu says:
    @CalDre

    I know this because this is an established historical fact.
     
    Whenever someone writes this, it generally means they are closed-minded. People don't even know whether it is a "fact" that Russia has invaded Ukraine in the last few years - there are only opinions. There's virtually no such thing as "established historical fact". Well, it is probably an established fact that there was a Russian Empire and a British Empire, but very few details about these Empires that people would agree on.

    As to evidence contrary to your "established historical fact", see for example here and here (Nebel, Behar and Elhaik studies).


    “Provocation”? Slavic tribes were literally made to pay them tribute.
     
    Little about the Khazar Empire is known. But what is known: they shared borders with Slavic tribes. A tribute is a tax; all peasants were taxed (quite harshly by their Russian overlords as well). And the Slavic tribes mounted constant attacks against the Khazars.

    Now, what changed? The Nordics came and conquered the Slav tribes (who also paid tribute to them, of course), and these Nordic-governed Slav tribes (the Kiev Rus) defeated the Khazars and then, for reasons that are not clear (but can be imagined), there was a Khazarian diaspora.

    Do you think Russian Empire did not require tribute of its conquered territories? In 1500s Russia was the size of Denmark and centered around Moscow. How do you think Russia became the largest country in the world? By brutal conquest (though this probably goes against your "established historical facts", lol).



    There were plenty of pogroms in Russia by Russians.
     
    Again – can you prove that? Because, here, look – several maps.
     
    No, I can't prove anything that happened hundreds of years ago, nobody can. But that is the "history" that is passed down, including by Solzhenitsyn in TWO HUNDRED YEARS TOGETHER. See also here.

    If you insist that it were (mainly/exclusively) Russians who pogrommed the Jews back then
     
    I didn't claim that, nor did I insist on it. I only said pogroms were one grievance Jews had against Russians. But Russians clearly are not the only people against whom Jews have had grievances.

    There was no “Christian genocide”. No one recognizes it as such.
     
    There most undoubtedly was a Christian genocide. You must be a Communist apologist? It certainly would fit in with your mythology about "established historical fact".

    There were very fine records maintained of the clergy killed, the churches destroyed, etc. There are countless resources available to study this - many estimates put the number of Christian victims of Bolshevism at 20 million. The Bolsheviks desired, both as part of ideology and as part of tactics and strategy, to destroy Christianity, and not just by expelling Christians from Russian (as Hitler wanted to expel Jews from Europe), which could not happen because Russia was predominantly (85%+) Christian; so their tactic was to use terror, violence, destruction and mass killings, all with the goal of eradicating Christianity (which is the very definition of genocide).

    You can go to NYC, Miami or LA and if you have a proper guide you can be shown many older guys and women from SU or Poland who were members of NKVD or KGB or UB (Poland) who by strange reason always were welcomed to the US as refugees in full knowledge they had hectoliters of blood on their hands. However the largest concentration of former members of communist apparatus of repression is in Israel. Those people were never sorry. They never acknowledged what they did. They have not atoned for what they did. The worst is that these people have children and grandchildren who are indoctrinated by them to become another generation of unrepentant Stalinists. Then they come and try to do the whitewash. However it is not surprising they are attracted to Israel Shamir’s blog who himself doesn’t hide some sympathies for Stalin and some aspect of Stalinism.

    Read More
    • Agree: jacques sheete
    • Replies: @Lyttenburgh

    You can go to NYC, Miami or LA and if you have a proper guide you can be shown many older guys and women from SU or Poland who were members of NKVD or KGB or UB (Poland) who by strange reason always were welcomed to the US as refugees in full knowledge they had hectoliters of blood on their hands.
     
    Guides, yeah? You know, I heard you can go to Scotland and if you have a proper guide you can be shown a Loch Ness monster, which by strange reason always eludes scientists and people not much given to mind altering substances.

    However it is not surprising they are attracted to Israel Shamir’s blog who himself doesn’t hide some sympathies for Stalin and some aspect of Stalinism.
     
    By strange coincidences only a certain category of people expresses their Anti-Stalin and Anti-Soviet sentiments. They nearly universally also tend to be Russophobes as well.

    Mr. Shamir does not hide some of his sympathies to Russia.
  144. Andrei Martyanov [AKA "SmoothieX12"] says: • Website
    @utu
    Ok. Solzhenitsyn exaggerated. But by how much? How many people in Leningrad were arrested during the purge in 1930s? 50,000? 100,000?, 250,000? You get all upset with Solzhenitsyn but you have no numbers. You do not care, right? When Solzhenitsyn wrote he had no access to any archives. All information was from clandestine sources collected by ex prisoners like himself. And 50 or so years later you make a big deal of it but still can't provide accurate information. Or are you going to be like the unreformed Stalinist Lyttenburgh who dares to question whether they were innocent or guilty by writing "innocent" in the quotation marks?

    You get all upset with Solzhenitsyn but you have no numbers.

    Zemskov—-> Google.com

    Ok. Solzhenitsyn exaggerated.

    FYI, exaggeration is a LIE but It is more complex than that–he wrote his “own” Russian “History” which has very little to do with the real one. He also was completely insulated (epistolary contacts with Moscow “intelligentsia” don’t count) in Vermont those crucial 20 years of Soviet/Russia’s history in 1970s and 1980s to completely lack any understanding of modern USSR and what was transpiring there. In general, this bellicose “genius” and self-proclaimed Russia’s “consciousness” managed to write after his return “200 Years Together” and that is about it. He certainly got unlucky with Russian nation, which, of course, was never adequate to his, Solzhenitsyn’s “genius”. He even couldn’t understand that he was committing an artistic suicide exhibiting himself as open supporter of Vlasov–one of the most despicable figures in Russian history. That, plus, of course, the fact that pretty much larger half of GULAG Archipelago was literally stolen from Varlam Shalamov. In a grim irony (for Solzhenitsyn and his admirers) he might have continued to be extolled in the West if not a collapse of USSR and eventual opening of Soviet archives. Today, when the whole world have seen what “democracy” means in real life, his “truths” seem not only “outdated” but tasteless. And then again, it seems Russians refer more to Dostoevsky and his Diary than to whatever Solzh concocted. But again, there are people who read Rezun (aka Suvorov) as “history”.

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    • Replies: @utu
    Poor you. So prejudiced against Solzhenitsyn just because he told some truth about your beloved criminal state of Soviet Union and perhaps envious of his success which is pretty common among Russians (This envy is one of the reasons why Russian do not have much success in building any society. Very low trust culture.). This envy was eating up Shalamov who was offered to be the coauthor of Archipelago by Solzhenitsyn but refused. Perhaps he was too afraid to take a risk and go to prison again. After that he was resentful.

    Solzhenitsyn stopped being extolled in the West after his Harvard speech. They stopped liking him when they found out that he is really Russian nationalist who has only contempt for the liberal West. So they dropped him which turns out very good for him. He had very productive time in Vermont finishing his Red Wheel series.

    Today, when the whole world have seen what “democracy” means in real life, his “truths” seem not only “outdated” but tasteless.
     
    Yes, the Western democracy is showing its true colors recently. However Solzhenitsyn was never a proponent of it and I am sure that he did not have any nostalgia for Soviet Union unlike many losers in Russia who are too stupid to see that the murderous Soviet system is not a viable alternative on moral grounds and economic grounds.

    He was over 70 when returned to Russia. Still he managed to write 200 Years Together and few other books. What else you want? He did more for the Russian nation and its culture than anybody in the second half of 20 century. He will remain in pantheon of great Russian writers along Gogol, Dostoyevsky, Tolstoy, Chekkov, Bulgakov. His existence is the proof of the greatness of Russian spirit while his small-minded Russian detractors like yourself unfortunately are the proof that the greatness will not be Russian destiny if they prevail.
  145. Hibernian says:

    Mr. Shamir, somewhat OT, a leftist troll on Steve Sailer’s blog has recently posted words to the effect that you are a(n) (entirely) non-Jewish man who adopted the name “Israel Shamir” to engage in (perceived) Jewish Anti-Semitism on behalf of the Alt-Right. (This was in the comments to a recent article on the (somewhat exaggerated in some cases) reports of vandalism against Jewish cemeteries in the U.S. Do you care to comment? ( I replied that I think you are a convert to the Russian Orthodox faith.)

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    • Replies: @Israel Shamir
    Did he add that Trump is a Russian spy? Or that Palestinians don't exist?
  146. @utu
    So you are going to decide who was innocent and who was "innocent", right? Could you tell us about your parents and great parents and when did they begin their careers with NKVD? Your type of thinking runs usually in multigenerational families of security apparatus employees.

    The article is behind the paywall. I have no access to it.

    So you are going to decide who was innocent and who was “innocent”, right?

    Not me, but neither you. Only competent Organs can do that. If the people were guilty of breaking the law then, obviously, they were not innocent. At the same time, we know for sure about re-habilitation and review of the causes that began right after the Big Purge, so even the Soviet Authorities understood that there were indeed some innocents caught in.

    Could you tell us about your parents and great parents and when did they begin their careers with NKVD?

    My parents were born after NKVD changed its name, so I’d like to talk about my grandparents and grand-grandparents instead – that’d be more historically accurate.

    Grand-grand parents. They were of the worker-peasant-soldier background. One of them was the member of KomBed and was shot by kulaks during the Civil War. Others joined Red Partisans in their fight against Kolchak and met the end of the War liberating Far East.

    Grandparents – first-gen factory workers in Ural. None of them was repressed. 21 of them, though fought in the Great Patritic War. 19 of them lost their lives.

    Your type of thinking runs usually in multigenerational families of security apparatus employees.

    Where can I read this monograph “The thinking paptters in multigenerational families of security apparatus employees“, which you, obviously, published and received a great acclaim for that?

    No, my way ofthinking operates on learning and researching facts. You, OTOH, is a good example why some people sincerely believe in the Fake News. You don’t want to learn anything. You operate on belief alone.

    The article is behind the paywall. I have no access to it.

    So you recomened me an article which you didn’t even read? Ah… why?

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  147. @CalDre

    I know this because this is an established historical fact.
     
    Whenever someone writes this, it generally means they are closed-minded. People don't even know whether it is a "fact" that Russia has invaded Ukraine in the last few years - there are only opinions. There's virtually no such thing as "established historical fact". Well, it is probably an established fact that there was a Russian Empire and a British Empire, but very few details about these Empires that people would agree on.

    As to evidence contrary to your "established historical fact", see for example here and here (Nebel, Behar and Elhaik studies).


    “Provocation”? Slavic tribes were literally made to pay them tribute.
     
    Little about the Khazar Empire is known. But what is known: they shared borders with Slavic tribes. A tribute is a tax; all peasants were taxed (quite harshly by their Russian overlords as well). And the Slavic tribes mounted constant attacks against the Khazars.

    Now, what changed? The Nordics came and conquered the Slav tribes (who also paid tribute to them, of course), and these Nordic-governed Slav tribes (the Kiev Rus) defeated the Khazars and then, for reasons that are not clear (but can be imagined), there was a Khazarian diaspora.

    Do you think Russian Empire did not require tribute of its conquered territories? In 1500s Russia was the size of Denmark and centered around Moscow. How do you think Russia became the largest country in the world? By brutal conquest (though this probably goes against your "established historical facts", lol).



    There were plenty of pogroms in Russia by Russians.
     
    Again – can you prove that? Because, here, look – several maps.
     
    No, I can't prove anything that happened hundreds of years ago, nobody can. But that is the "history" that is passed down, including by Solzhenitsyn in TWO HUNDRED YEARS TOGETHER. See also here.

    If you insist that it were (mainly/exclusively) Russians who pogrommed the Jews back then
     
    I didn't claim that, nor did I insist on it. I only said pogroms were one grievance Jews had against Russians. But Russians clearly are not the only people against whom Jews have had grievances.

    There was no “Christian genocide”. No one recognizes it as such.
     
    There most undoubtedly was a Christian genocide. You must be a Communist apologist? It certainly would fit in with your mythology about "established historical fact".

    There were very fine records maintained of the clergy killed, the churches destroyed, etc. There are countless resources available to study this - many estimates put the number of Christian victims of Bolshevism at 20 million. The Bolsheviks desired, both as part of ideology and as part of tactics and strategy, to destroy Christianity, and not just by expelling Christians from Russian (as Hitler wanted to expel Jews from Europe), which could not happen because Russia was predominantly (85%+) Christian; so their tactic was to use terror, violence, destruction and mass killings, all with the goal of eradicating Christianity (which is the very definition of genocide).

    Whenever someone writes this, it generally means they are closed-minded.

    May I ask you something? Do you so open-minded to doubt, actively, the existence of the electro-magnetic field? The planet Saturn? That the water is H2O? Just how much are you given to the solipsism in your daily life?

    Also – are you a student of history? What are your evidence and proof, that might somehow “shake the foundation” of already established facts? Or are you, indeed, just an apt example of who are the target auditory of the Fake News?

    People don’t even know whether it is a “fact” that Russia has invaded Ukraine in the last few years – there are only opinions.

    That’s the difference between the history and contemporary events. Determining this now is useless and only future generations of historians, with the access of all sorts of data and evidence can determine that – not the pundits and their flock.

    There’s virtually no such thing as “established historical fact”.

    Says who? Are you a historian?

    …but very few details about these Empires that people would agree on.

    What people? Professional historians or those who don’t bother to study history in the first place?

    From the WikiDorkia article you linked (and, apparently, didn’t read) there is no substantial support for the “Khazars were Jews” theory.

    As for the Brooke’s scribblings (because that’s not how the serious research paper looks like) – this is just ridiculous, and no one takes his baseless facts (and grossly inaccurate translations of the primary sources, like al-Faqih) seriously in the historic community:

    Brook, a resident of Connecticut whose Jewish ancestors immigrated to the United States from Ukraine, Belarus, Lithuania, and Poland, is the moderator of the Eastern European Jewish History (EEJH) discussion list on the Internet and maintains a popular website about the Khazars entitled “The Khazaria Info Center.” He has been researching and writing about the history of the Khazars since 1993. Mr. Brook received his BS degree in Business Administration from Bryant College in Smithfield, Rhode Island.

    I mean – yeah, who’s better fitted to conduct a historical research and write works on history than an economist!

    Little about the Khazar Empire is known. But what is known: they shared borders with Slavic tribes. A tribute is a tax; all peasants were taxed (quite harshly by their Russian overlords as well). And the Slavic tribes mounted constant attacks against the Khazars.

    Have you read Primarily Chronicle of Rus (Повесть Временных Лет)? Do you even know what it is? Besides – you are contradicting yourself in one paragraph! How can we “know little about Khazars” if you dare to claim that “Slavic tribes mounted constant attacks against” them?

    Also – there is a difference between a tax from your own populace and a tribute from the conquered people. I guessed people can see a difference between the two.

    If you’d bothered to read the Primarily Chronicle (to, you know, have any right to comment and claim stuff), then you’d learn that:

    “По прошествии времени, после смерти братьев этих (Кия, Щека и Хорива), стали притеснять полян древляне и иные окрестные люди. И нашли их хазары сидящими на горах этих в лесах и сказали: „Платите нам дань“. Поляне, посовещавшись, дали от дыма по мечу, и отнесли их хазары к своему князю и к старейшинам, и сказали им: „Вот, новую дань нашли мы“. Те же спросили у них: „Откуда?“. Они же ответили: „В лесу на горах над рекою Днепром“.
    Опять спросили те: „А что дали?“. Они же показали меч. И сказали старцы хазарские: „Не добрая дань эта, княже: мы добыли ее оружием, острым только с одной стороны, — саблями, а у этих оружие обоюдоострое — мечи. Им суждено собирать дань и с нас и с иных земель“.

    And beside the tribe of polians, others were Khazar tributaries as well:

    “В год 6392 (884). Пошел Олег на северян, и победил северян, и возложил на них легкую дань, и не велел им платить дань хазарам, сказав: „Я враг их“ и вам (им платить) незачем“.

    В год 6393 (885). Послал (Олег) к радимичам, спрашивая: „Кому даете дань?“. Они же ответили: „Хазарам“. И сказал им Олег: „Не давайте хазарам, но платите мне“. И дали Олегу по щелягу, как и хазарам давали.”

    Now, what changed? The Nordics came and conquered the Slav tribes (who also paid tribute to them, of course), and these Nordic-governed Slav tribes (the Kiev Rus) defeated the Khazars and then, for reasons that are not clear (but can be imagined), there was a Khazarian diaspora.

    Varangians were summoned officially by a tribal union of the Northern Slavs around Novgorod – partially, in response to Khazar’s expansion on other tribes of Slavs, which began long before that. I remind you, that we are talking about what happened first.

    Next – we have no need to “imagine” things, if we know facts. Khazarian diaspora is not a fact, but something out of imagination.

    “Do you think Russian Empire did not require tribute of its conquered territories? In 1500s Russia was the size of Denmark and centered around Moscow.”

    May I ask you something? Are you kidding me or you are indeed that ignorant and ill-informed?

    For your enLYTTENment:

    Even at the beginning of Ivan III reign the territory of Moscow’s Grand Princedom was bigger than that:

    How can anyone treat anything said by you seriously if you repeatedly make such ridiculously stupid claims?

    How do you think Russia became the largest country in the world? By brutal conquest (though this probably goes against your “established historical facts”, lol).

    No it doesn’t. Yes, there were conquests. No, they were not always brutal. Siberia had been conquered mostly peacefully. Astrakhan khanate surrendered to Russia without a fight. Numerous Christian Armenian and Gruzian princedoms absolutely voluntary came under Russia’s arm. Only two large clashed happened during that – the initial one, when Yermak and his Cossacks annihilated the last vestige of the Golden Horde in the West Siberia in 1580s, and then in 1750s, when Chukchi went on genocidal rampage on all nearby (Russian tributary) tribes.

    “No, I can’t prove anything that happened hundreds of years ago, nobody can.”

    Actually – Yes, We Can! That’s called history. Or are you of the caveman/gnostic worldview that the world around us is un-learnable and always mysterious?

    But that is the “history” that is passed down, including by Solzhenitsyn in TWO HUNDRED YEARS TOGETHER. See also here.

    1) Solzhenitsin is not a source.
    2) Yes, and? I’ve linked this article earlier, and quoted from it:

    “…and it was within [the "Pale of Settlement"] that the pogroms largely took place.”

    Now, what ethnicities made up the majority of population I Malorossia, Poland and Lithuania? Or, what, your worldview prohibits you from learning even such tiny factoid?

    “I didn’t claim that, nor did I insist on it”

    No, you said: “There were plenty of pogroms in Russia by Russians.” (http://www.unz.com/ishamir/the-russian-scare/#comment-1796173). I pointed out that this is very doubtful, given that the most of pogroms were behind the Pale of Settlement and the ethnic disposition of those gubernias.

    There most undoubtedly was a Christian genocide. You must be a Communist apologist? It certainly would fit in with your mythology about “established historical fact”.

    I’m a person who prefers facts over fiction, researched evidence to imagined facts, and truth to falsehoods. While we are at it – you can also call me an “apologist” to Ivan IV Awesome, Richard III and Gilles de Rais. Because instead of lurid fantasies and slander, I prefer “established historical facts”. If, according to you, this makes me a “Communist apologist”, then your opposition to scientific approach in history (and denial of all logic) makes you an ill-informed person with rather distorted perception of the reality.

    There were very fine records maintained of the clergy killed, the churches destroyed, etc. There are countless resources available to study this – many estimates put the number of Christian victims of Bolshevism at 20 million.

    This number alone is so out of any sense, that you could as well just jumped on “Billions Executed Personally By Stalin” ™ bandwagon of loonies which would undoubtedly saved us time.

    You are mentioning “fine records” – have you read them? You talk about what the Bolsheviks wanted as if you were one or could truly learn that. But didn’t you yourself said earlier that you “can’t prove anything that happened hundreds of years ago”? What about 90, 80 years ago? This you can? Only events more than 100 years ago are your kryptonite? ;)

    Read More
    • Replies: @Israel Shamir
    Here http://super-nep.ru/blog/43418920277/Masshtabyi-Stalinskih-repressiy-%E2%80%94-tochnyie-tsifryi?utm_campaign=transit&amp%3Butm_source=main&amp%3Butm_medium=page_0&amp%3Bdomain=mirtesen.ru&amp%3Bpaid=1&amp%3Bpad=1
    you can find full numbers of all killed by Stalin, and it is about 600.000 for all thirty years of his rule.
  148. @utu
    Ok. Solzhenitsyn exaggerated. But by how much? How many people in Leningrad were arrested during the purge in 1930s? 50,000? 100,000?, 250,000? You get all upset with Solzhenitsyn but you have no numbers. You do not care, right? When Solzhenitsyn wrote he had no access to any archives. All information was from clandestine sources collected by ex prisoners like himself. And 50 or so years later you make a big deal of it but still can't provide accurate information. Or are you going to be like the unreformed Stalinist Lyttenburgh who dares to question whether they were innocent or guilty by writing "innocent" in the quotation marks?

    Or are you going to be like the unreformed Stalinist Lyttenburgh who dares to question whether they were innocent or guilty by writing “innocent” in the quotation marks?

    Unapologetic. The word is unapologetic. :)

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  149. @utu
    You can go to NYC, Miami or LA and if you have a proper guide you can be shown many older guys and women from SU or Poland who were members of NKVD or KGB or UB (Poland) who by strange reason always were welcomed to the US as refugees in full knowledge they had hectoliters of blood on their hands. However the largest concentration of former members of communist apparatus of repression is in Israel. Those people were never sorry. They never acknowledged what they did. They have not atoned for what they did. The worst is that these people have children and grandchildren who are indoctrinated by them to become another generation of unrepentant Stalinists. Then they come and try to do the whitewash. However it is not surprising they are attracted to Israel Shamir's blog who himself doesn't hide some sympathies for Stalin and some aspect of Stalinism.

    You can go to NYC, Miami or LA and if you have a proper guide you can be shown many older guys and women from SU or Poland who were members of NKVD or KGB or UB (Poland) who by strange reason always were welcomed to the US as refugees in full knowledge they had hectoliters of blood on their hands.

    Guides, yeah? You know, I heard you can go to Scotland and if you have a proper guide you can be shown a Loch Ness monster, which by strange reason always eludes scientists and people not much given to mind altering substances.

    However it is not surprising they are attracted to Israel Shamir’s blog who himself doesn’t hide some sympathies for Stalin and some aspect of Stalinism.

    By strange coincidences only a certain category of people expresses their Anti-Stalin and Anti-Soviet sentiments. They nearly universally also tend to be Russophobes as well.

    Mr. Shamir does not hide some of his sympathies to Russia.

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  150. utu says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    You get all upset with Solzhenitsyn but you have no numbers.
     
    Zemskov----> Google.com

    Ok. Solzhenitsyn exaggerated.
     
    FYI, exaggeration is a LIE but It is more complex than that--he wrote his "own" Russian "History" which has very little to do with the real one. He also was completely insulated (epistolary contacts with Moscow "intelligentsia" don't count) in Vermont those crucial 20 years of Soviet/Russia's history in 1970s and 1980s to completely lack any understanding of modern USSR and what was transpiring there. In general, this bellicose "genius" and self-proclaimed Russia's "consciousness" managed to write after his return "200 Years Together" and that is about it. He certainly got unlucky with Russian nation, which, of course, was never adequate to his, Solzhenitsyn's "genius". He even couldn't understand that he was committing an artistic suicide exhibiting himself as open supporter of Vlasov--one of the most despicable figures in Russian history. That, plus, of course, the fact that pretty much larger half of GULAG Archipelago was literally stolen from Varlam Shalamov. In a grim irony (for Solzhenitsyn and his admirers) he might have continued to be extolled in the West if not a collapse of USSR and eventual opening of Soviet archives. Today, when the whole world have seen what "democracy" means in real life, his "truths" seem not only "outdated" but tasteless. And then again, it seems Russians refer more to Dostoevsky and his Diary than to whatever Solzh concocted. But again, there are people who read Rezun (aka Suvorov) as "history".

    Poor you. So prejudiced against Solzhenitsyn just because he told some truth about your beloved criminal state of Soviet Union and perhaps envious of his success which is pretty common among Russians (This envy is one of the reasons why Russian do not have much success in building any society. Very low trust culture.). This envy was eating up Shalamov who was offered to be the coauthor of Archipelago by Solzhenitsyn but refused. Perhaps he was too afraid to take a risk and go to prison again. After that he was resentful.

    Solzhenitsyn stopped being extolled in the West after his Harvard speech. They stopped liking him when they found out that he is really Russian nationalist who has only contempt for the liberal West. So they dropped him which turns out very good for him. He had very productive time in Vermont finishing his Red Wheel series.

    Today, when the whole world have seen what “democracy” means in real life, his “truths” seem not only “outdated” but tasteless.

    Yes, the Western democracy is showing its true colors recently. However Solzhenitsyn was never a proponent of it and I am sure that he did not have any nostalgia for Soviet Union unlike many losers in Russia who are too stupid to see that the murderous Soviet system is not a viable alternative on moral grounds and economic grounds.

    He was over 70 when returned to Russia. Still he managed to write 200 Years Together and few other books. What else you want? He did more for the Russian nation and its culture than anybody in the second half of 20 century. He will remain in pantheon of great Russian writers along Gogol, Dostoyevsky, Tolstoy, Chekkov, Bulgakov. His existence is the proof of the greatness of Russian spirit while his small-minded Russian detractors like yourself unfortunately are the proof that the greatness will not be Russian destiny if they prevail.

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  151. @Lyttenburgh

    Whenever someone writes this, it generally means they are closed-minded.
     
    May I ask you something? Do you so open-minded to doubt, actively, the existence of the electro-magnetic field? The planet Saturn? That the water is H2O? Just how much are you given to the solipsism in your daily life?

    Also – are you a student of history? What are your evidence and proof, that might somehow “shake the foundation” of already established facts? Or are you, indeed, just an apt example of who are the target auditory of the Fake News?

    People don’t even know whether it is a “fact” that Russia has invaded Ukraine in the last few years – there are only opinions.
     
    That’s the difference between the history and contemporary events. Determining this now is useless and only future generations of historians, with the access of all sorts of data and evidence can determine that – not the pundits and their flock.

    There’s virtually no such thing as “established historical fact”.
     
    Says who? Are you a historian?

    …but very few details about these Empires that people would agree on.
     
    What people? Professional historians or those who don’t bother to study history in the first place?

    From the WikiDorkia article you linked (and, apparently, didn’t read) there is no substantial support for the “Khazars were Jews” theory.

    As for the Brooke’s scribblings (because that’s not how the serious research paper looks like) – this is just ridiculous, and no one takes his baseless facts (and grossly inaccurate translations of the primary sources, like al-Faqih) seriously in the historic community:

    Brook, a resident of Connecticut whose Jewish ancestors immigrated to the United States from Ukraine, Belarus, Lithuania, and Poland, is the moderator of the Eastern European Jewish History (EEJH) discussion list on the Internet and maintains a popular website about the Khazars entitled "The Khazaria Info Center." He has been researching and writing about the history of the Khazars since 1993. Mr. Brook received his BS degree in Business Administration from Bryant College in Smithfield, Rhode Island.
     
    I mean – yeah, who’s better fitted to conduct a historical research and write works on history than an economist!

    Little about the Khazar Empire is known. But what is known: they shared borders with Slavic tribes. A tribute is a tax; all peasants were taxed (quite harshly by their Russian overlords as well). And the Slavic tribes mounted constant attacks against the Khazars.
     
    Have you read Primarily Chronicle of Rus (Повесть Временных Лет)? Do you even know what it is? Besides – you are contradicting yourself in one paragraph! How can we “know little about Khazars” if you dare to claim that “Slavic tribes mounted constant attacks against” them?

    Also – there is a difference between a tax from your own populace and a tribute from the conquered people. I guessed people can see a difference between the two.

    If you’d bothered to read the Primarily Chronicle (to, you know, have any right to comment and claim stuff), then you’d learn that:

    “По прошествии времени, после смерти братьев этих (Кия, Щека и Хорива), стали притеснять полян древляне и иные окрестные люди. И нашли их хазары сидящими на горах этих в лесах и сказали: „Платите нам дань“. Поляне, посовещавшись, дали от дыма по мечу, и отнесли их хазары к своему князю и к старейшинам, и сказали им: „Вот, новую дань нашли мы“. Те же спросили у них: „Откуда?“. Они же ответили: „В лесу на горах над рекою Днепром“.
    Опять спросили те: „А что дали?“. Они же показали меч. И сказали старцы хазарские: „Не добрая дань эта, княже: мы добыли ее оружием, острым только с одной стороны, — саблями, а у этих оружие обоюдоострое — мечи. Им суждено собирать дань и с нас и с иных земель“.
     
    And beside the tribe of polians, others were Khazar tributaries as well:

    “В год 6392 (884). Пошел Олег на северян, и победил северян, и возложил на них легкую дань, и не велел им платить дань хазарам, сказав: „Я враг их“ и вам (им платить) незачем“.

    В год 6393 (885). Послал (Олег) к радимичам, спрашивая: „Кому даете дань?“. Они же ответили: „Хазарам“. И сказал им Олег: „Не давайте хазарам, но платите мне“. И дали Олегу по щелягу, как и хазарам давали.”
     

    Now, what changed? The Nordics came and conquered the Slav tribes (who also paid tribute to them, of course), and these Nordic-governed Slav tribes (the Kiev Rus) defeated the Khazars and then, for reasons that are not clear (but can be imagined), there was a Khazarian diaspora.
     
    Varangians were summoned officially by a tribal union of the Northern Slavs around Novgorod – partially, in response to Khazar’s expansion on other tribes of Slavs, which began long before that. I remind you, that we are talking about what happened first.

    Next – we have no need to “imagine” things, if we know facts. Khazarian diaspora is not a fact, but something out of imagination.

    “Do you think Russian Empire did not require tribute of its conquered territories? In 1500s Russia was the size of Denmark and centered around Moscow.”
     
    May I ask you something? Are you kidding me or you are indeed that ignorant and ill-informed?

    For your enLYTTENment:

    http://dot.mpei.ru/do/eres/hist/data/lesson_3_2_final/data/img/i3_litva.jpg

    Even at the beginning of Ivan III reign the territory of Moscow’s Grand Princedom was bigger than that:

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/04/Daniaeregnitypvs.jpg

    How can anyone treat anything said by you seriously if you repeatedly make such ridiculously stupid claims?

    How do you think Russia became the largest country in the world? By brutal conquest (though this probably goes against your “established historical facts”, lol).
     
    No it doesn’t. Yes, there were conquests. No, they were not always brutal. Siberia had been conquered mostly peacefully. Astrakhan khanate surrendered to Russia without a fight. Numerous Christian Armenian and Gruzian princedoms absolutely voluntary came under Russia’s arm. Only two large clashed happened during that – the initial one, when Yermak and his Cossacks annihilated the last vestige of the Golden Horde in the West Siberia in 1580s, and then in 1750s, when Chukchi went on genocidal rampage on all nearby (Russian tributary) tribes.

    “No, I can’t prove anything that happened hundreds of years ago, nobody can.”
     
    Actually – Yes, We Can! That’s called history. Or are you of the caveman/gnostic worldview that the world around us is un-learnable and always mysterious?

    But that is the “history” that is passed down, including by Solzhenitsyn in TWO HUNDRED YEARS TOGETHER. See also here.
     
    1) Solzhenitsin is not a source.
    2) Yes, and? I’ve linked this article earlier, and quoted from it:

    "…and it was within [the "Pale of Settlement"] that the pogroms largely took place."
     
    Now, what ethnicities made up the majority of population I Malorossia, Poland and Lithuania? Or, what, your worldview prohibits you from learning even such tiny factoid?

    “I didn’t claim that, nor did I insist on it”
     
    No, you said: “There were plenty of pogroms in Russia by Russians.” (http://www.unz.com/ishamir/the-russian-scare/#comment-1796173). I pointed out that this is very doubtful, given that the most of pogroms were behind the Pale of Settlement and the ethnic disposition of those gubernias.

    There most undoubtedly was a Christian genocide. You must be a Communist apologist? It certainly would fit in with your mythology about “established historical fact”.
     
    I’m a person who prefers facts over fiction, researched evidence to imagined facts, and truth to falsehoods. While we are at it – you can also call me an “apologist” to Ivan IV Awesome, Richard III and Gilles de Rais. Because instead of lurid fantasies and slander, I prefer “established historical facts”. If, according to you, this makes me a “Communist apologist”, then your opposition to scientific approach in history (and denial of all logic) makes you an ill-informed person with rather distorted perception of the reality.

    There were very fine records maintained of the clergy killed, the churches destroyed, etc. There are countless resources available to study this – many estimates put the number of Christian victims of Bolshevism at 20 million.
     
    This number alone is so out of any sense, that you could as well just jumped on “Billions Executed Personally By Stalin” (tm) bandwagon of loonies which would undoubtedly saved us time.

    You are mentioning “fine records” – have you read them? You talk about what the Bolsheviks wanted as if you were one or could truly learn that. But didn’t you yourself said earlier that you “can’t prove anything that happened hundreds of years ago”? What about 90, 80 years ago? This you can? Only events more than 100 years ago are your kryptonite? ;)
    Read More
    • Replies: @Lyttenburgh

    you can find full numbers of all killed by Stalin, and it is about 600.000 for all thirty years of his rule.
     
    I'm aware of that, Mr. Shamir, as well as of Zemskov's findings. I only object to the term "killed by Stalin". No - they were executed by the State.
    , @utu
    "killed by Stalin, and it is about 600.000 for all thirty years of his rule." - Did they mention that this score is the result of their work on subbotniks only?

    And obviously you and you Stalinist sidekick Lyttenburgh believe they were all guilty and deserved to die.
    , @Andrei Martyanov
    It is a very interesting way the number of tens of millions "repressed" may have migrated into Solzhenitsyn's "literature". It is established fact that most of GULAG realities, of which Solzh had very little clear understanding, since most of his time spent in Sharaga, were "borrowed" from Shalamov. In one of his Kolyma Stories (don't remember which one) Shalamov, when describing the nature of a criminal world in GULAG exclaims to the effect that "millions, tens of millions of such people populate this Carthage. This Carthage must be destroyed". Shalamov was very specific there--he spoke about real criminals. Evidently, Solzhenitsyn had no problems using hyperbole as a "historic" number. Later, in his, yet another, opus "The Russian Question At The End Of The XX Century" (1995) Solzh continues this BS and refers to professor Karaganov's number which he "estimated" as around 60-65 millions repressed. Solzh graduated from physics-mathematical faculty but, evidently, basic math and basic statistics were not taught there. But then again, arresting "quarter of Leningrad" or Red Army "retreating 100 kilometers a day" (the distance between USSR's western border and Moscow is about 1100 kilometers--so 11 days to Moscow)--this is his "contribution" to "Russian Question". This, plus, of course, the "fact" that is was Bunyachenko's ROA's Division, in his opinion, which "liberated" Prague in May of 1945. Forget Konev's 3rd, 4th Guards Tank Armies plus other 3 Armies which took part in that offensive and liberation of Prague. I wish he lived through 9 May 2015 and saw Immortal Regiment march.
    , @jacques sheete

    ...you can find full numbers of all killed by Stalin, and it is about 600.000 for all thirty years of his rule.
     
    I believe you may have more accurately meant 600,000/month for all 30 years of his rule.

    I wonder what Khrushchev would have said.

    , @iffen
    Only 600,000!

    Posthumous Nobel Peace Prize award committee take note!
  152. @Hibernian
    Mr. Shamir, somewhat OT, a leftist troll on Steve Sailer's blog has recently posted words to the effect that you are a(n) (entirely) non-Jewish man who adopted the name "Israel Shamir" to engage in (perceived) Jewish Anti-Semitism on behalf of the Alt-Right. (This was in the comments to a recent article on the (somewhat exaggerated in some cases) reports of vandalism against Jewish cemeteries in the U.S. Do you care to comment? ( I replied that I think you are a convert to the Russian Orthodox faith.)

    Did he add that Trump is a Russian spy? Or that Palestinians don’t exist?

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    • Replies: @iffen
    Or that Palestinians don’t exist

    Which of the old Zionists said, "They do now"?
    , @Hibernian
    He was clearly not a friend of the Right. Don't know his stance on Palestinians since of course the Left is split on that issue.
  153. @Israel Shamir
    Here http://super-nep.ru/blog/43418920277/Masshtabyi-Stalinskih-repressiy-%E2%80%94-tochnyie-tsifryi?utm_campaign=transit&amp%3Butm_source=main&amp%3Butm_medium=page_0&amp%3Bdomain=mirtesen.ru&amp%3Bpaid=1&amp%3Bpad=1
    you can find full numbers of all killed by Stalin, and it is about 600.000 for all thirty years of his rule.

    you can find full numbers of all killed by Stalin, and it is about 600.000 for all thirty years of his rule.

    I’m aware of that, Mr. Shamir, as well as of Zemskov’s findings. I only object to the term “killed by Stalin”. No – they were executed by the State.

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  154. utu says:
    @Israel Shamir
    Here http://super-nep.ru/blog/43418920277/Masshtabyi-Stalinskih-repressiy-%E2%80%94-tochnyie-tsifryi?utm_campaign=transit&amp%3Butm_source=main&amp%3Butm_medium=page_0&amp%3Bdomain=mirtesen.ru&amp%3Bpaid=1&amp%3Bpad=1
    you can find full numbers of all killed by Stalin, and it is about 600.000 for all thirty years of his rule.

    “killed by Stalin, and it is about 600.000 for all thirty years of his rule.” – Did they mention that this score is the result of their work on subbotniks only?

    And obviously you and you Stalinist sidekick Lyttenburgh believe they were all guilty and deserved to die.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov
    I have to hand it to you--you can serve as a poster boy for "Western" in general, and US in particular, "Russia scholarship" since exhibit all traits characteristic of this so called "scholarship": ignorance, indignation based on desperate desire for "moral high ground", hysterical reactions to facts and inability to deal with constantly occurring cognitive dissonances, dogmatism reaching absurd proportions etc. To make long story short, it is up to you, of course, to decide if you will take it or leave it--most (not all) of what you know about Russia/USSR's 20th and 21st century history presented in the US is an utter BS and so are the Russian "voices" which were and are allowed to speak for Russia. Solzhenitsyn is one of them--in fact, it is rather a funny company ranging from said Solzhenitsyn to Rezun to such characters as Masha Gessen--this is mostly the circle of "scholars" which US "academe" and public prefer and for that there is a reason. What is this reason--try to find out;-) So, if you want to stay with their narrative, be my guest but prepare to go on meds once your, however minuscule, understanding of the surrounding world, will blow itself out of the water and it will. In fact, in is in progress as I type this. But, of course, there is always a second option--staying within own bubble, that is until it bursts, they always do;-))
    , @Lyttenburgh

    Did they mention that this score is the result of their work on subbotniks only?
     
    Please, provide us with your own sources and proofs and numbers! I wager, this will be welcomed by everyone here.

    Don't have anything of substance besides you indignation, feelings and biases? Why, you might be not so different from the SJW crowd after all!

    From your other post:

    So prejudiced against Solzhenitsyn just because he told some truth about your beloved criminal state of Soviet Union...
     
    The thing is - he didn't tell the truth. On the contrary. He told a lie. Repeatedly. You've been demonstrated - time after time - that Solzhenitsyn was lying.

    Next, and this is really important. You are calling the Soviet Union a "criminal state". This "criminal state" won the Great Patriotic War. Are you, userperson "utu" saying, that the results of the WW2 should be reviewed based on that? I.e., that Russia must relinquish something because, according to you and other anti-Soviet Russophobic loonies, the USSR was a "criminal state"? Who the fuck you (plural "you" here) to say that?

    and perhaps envious of his success which is pretty common among Russians (This envy is one of the reasons why Russian do not have much success in building any society. Very low trust culture.)
     
    This phrase might be slightly accurate, should you talk about the modern brand of the svidomy Ukrainians. Not about Russians though. And Russians do have a society built. We did it a long time a go. I don't understand how can anyone deny it.

    This envy was eating up Shalamov who was offered to be the coauthor of Archipelago by Solzhenitsyn but refused
     
    I'm sure that many people besides myself would like to see you, for a change, proving that.

    Solzhenitsyn stopped being extolled in the West after his Harvard speech.
     
    And that too.

    He did more for the Russian nation and its culture than anybody in the second half of 20 century. He will remain in pantheon of great Russian writers along Gogol, Dostoyevsky, Tolstoy, Chekkov, Bulgakov.
     
    No, he won't. He's already fading from the collective memory. No one is quoting, reading and learning by hear him as they are quoting, reading and learning by heart those you've mentioned. Again - who are you to make such predictions? We already extablished that you have very tenuos grasp on Russian history.

    And obviously you and you Stalinist sidekick Lyttenburgh believe they were all guilty and deserved to die.
     
    I'm not a "sidekick". That's for one. Second - what have you done to prove that those were indeed innocent besides screaming and wailing incoherently?

    Me? I have no proving to do. They were persecuted by the State. Are you regularly doubting the State when it sentences someone to the death row?
  155. Andrei Martyanov [AKA "SmoothieX12"] says: • Website
    @utu
    "killed by Stalin, and it is about 600.000 for all thirty years of his rule." - Did they mention that this score is the result of their work on subbotniks only?

    And obviously you and you Stalinist sidekick Lyttenburgh believe they were all guilty and deserved to die.

    I have to hand it to you–you can serve as a poster boy for “Western” in general, and US in particular, “Russia scholarship” since exhibit all traits characteristic of this so called “scholarship”: ignorance, indignation based on desperate desire for “moral high ground”, hysterical reactions to facts and inability to deal with constantly occurring cognitive dissonances, dogmatism reaching absurd proportions etc. To make long story short, it is up to you, of course, to decide if you will take it or leave it–most (not all) of what you know about Russia/USSR’s 20th and 21st century history presented in the US is an utter BS and so are the Russian “voices” which were and are allowed to speak for Russia. Solzhenitsyn is one of them–in fact, it is rather a funny company ranging from said Solzhenitsyn to Rezun to such characters as Masha Gessen–this is mostly the circle of “scholars” which US “academe” and public prefer and for that there is a reason. What is this reason–try to find out;-) So, if you want to stay with their narrative, be my guest but prepare to go on meds once your, however minuscule, understanding of the surrounding world, will blow itself out of the water and it will. In fact, in is in progress as I type this. But, of course, there is always a second option–staying within own bubble, that is until it bursts, they always do;-))

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  156. Andrei Martyanov [AKA "SmoothieX12"] says: • Website
    @Israel Shamir
    Here http://super-nep.ru/blog/43418920277/Masshtabyi-Stalinskih-repressiy-%E2%80%94-tochnyie-tsifryi?utm_campaign=transit&amp%3Butm_source=main&amp%3Butm_medium=page_0&amp%3Bdomain=mirtesen.ru&amp%3Bpaid=1&amp%3Bpad=1
    you can find full numbers of all killed by Stalin, and it is about 600.000 for all thirty years of his rule.

    It is a very interesting way the number of tens of millions “repressed” may have migrated into Solzhenitsyn’s “literature”. It is established fact that most of GULAG realities, of which Solzh had very little clear understanding, since most of his time spent in Sharaga, were “borrowed” from Shalamov. In one of his Kolyma Stories (don’t remember which one) Shalamov, when describing the nature of a criminal world in GULAG exclaims to the effect that “millions, tens of millions of such people populate this Carthage. This Carthage must be destroyed”. Shalamov was very specific there–he spoke about real criminals. Evidently, Solzhenitsyn had no problems using hyperbole as a “historic” number. Later, in his, yet another, opus “The Russian Question At The End Of The XX Century” (1995) Solzh continues this BS and refers to professor Karaganov’s number which he “estimated” as around 60-65 millions repressed. Solzh graduated from physics-mathematical faculty but, evidently, basic math and basic statistics were not taught there. But then again, arresting “quarter of Leningrad” or Red Army “retreating 100 kilometers a day” (the distance between USSR’s western border and Moscow is about 1100 kilometers–so 11 days to Moscow)–this is his “contribution” to “Russian Question”. This, plus, of course, the “fact” that is was Bunyachenko’s ROA’s Division, in his opinion, which “liberated” Prague in May of 1945. Forget Konev’s 3rd, 4th Guards Tank Armies plus other 3 Armies which took part in that offensive and liberation of Prague. I wish he lived through 9 May 2015 and saw Immortal Regiment march.

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  157. @utu
    "killed by Stalin, and it is about 600.000 for all thirty years of his rule." - Did they mention that this score is the result of their work on subbotniks only?

    And obviously you and you Stalinist sidekick Lyttenburgh believe they were all guilty and deserved to die.

    Did they mention that this score is the result of their work on subbotniks only?

    Please, provide us with your own sources and proofs and numbers! I wager, this will be welcomed by everyone here.

    Don’t have anything of substance besides you indignation, feelings and biases? Why, you might be not so different from the SJW crowd after all!

    From your other post:

    So prejudiced against Solzhenitsyn just because he told some truth about your beloved criminal state of Soviet Union…

    The thing is – he didn’t tell the truth. On the contrary. He told a lie. Repeatedly. You’ve been demonstrated – time after time – that Solzhenitsyn was lying.

    Next, and this is really important. You are calling the Soviet Union a “criminal state”. This “criminal state” won the Great Patriotic War. Are you, userperson “utu” saying, that the results of the WW2 should be reviewed based on that? I.e., that Russia must relinquish something because, according to you and other anti-Soviet Russophobic loonies, the USSR was a “criminal state”? Who the fuck you (plural “you” here) to say that?

    and perhaps envious of his success which is pretty common among Russians (This envy is one of the reasons why Russian do not have much success in building any society. Very low trust culture.)

    This phrase might be slightly accurate, should you talk about the modern brand of the svidomy Ukrainians. Not about Russians though. And Russians do have a society built. We did it a long time a go. I don’t understand how can anyone deny it.

    This envy was eating up Shalamov who was offered to be the coauthor of Archipelago by Solzhenitsyn but refused

    I’m sure that many people besides myself would like to see you, for a change, proving that.

    Solzhenitsyn stopped being extolled in the West after his Harvard speech.

    And that too.

    He did more for the Russian nation and its culture than anybody in the second half of 20 century. He will remain in pantheon of great Russian writers along Gogol, Dostoyevsky, Tolstoy, Chekkov, Bulgakov.

    No, he won’t. He’s already fading from the collective memory. No one is quoting, reading and learning by hear him as they are quoting, reading and learning by heart those you’ve mentioned. Again – who are you to make such predictions? We already extablished that you have very tenuos grasp on Russian history.

    And obviously you and you Stalinist sidekick Lyttenburgh believe they were all guilty and deserved to die.

    I’m not a “sidekick”. That’s for one. Second – what have you done to prove that those were indeed innocent besides screaming and wailing incoherently?

    Me? I have no proving to do. They were persecuted by the State. Are you regularly doubting the State when it sentences someone to the death row?

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  158. iffen says:

    Why, you might be not so different from the SJW crowd after all!

    In the Heat of the Night

    Tibbs: “I can pull that fat cat down and bring him right off this hill!”

    Gillespie: “Oh boy… Man, you’re just like the rest of us, ain’t ya?”

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  159. iffen says:
    @Israel Shamir
    Did he add that Trump is a Russian spy? Or that Palestinians don't exist?

    Or that Palestinians don’t exist

    Which of the old Zionists said, “They do now”?

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  160. @Israel Shamir
    Here http://super-nep.ru/blog/43418920277/Masshtabyi-Stalinskih-repressiy-%E2%80%94-tochnyie-tsifryi?utm_campaign=transit&amp%3Butm_source=main&amp%3Butm_medium=page_0&amp%3Bdomain=mirtesen.ru&amp%3Bpaid=1&amp%3Bpad=1
    you can find full numbers of all killed by Stalin, and it is about 600.000 for all thirty years of his rule.

    …you can find full numbers of all killed by Stalin, and it is about 600.000 for all thirty years of his rule.

    I believe you may have more accurately meant 600,000/month for all 30 years of his rule.

    I wonder what Khrushchev would have said.

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    • Replies: @Lyttenburgh

    I believe you may have more accurately meant 600,000/month for all 30 years of his rule.
     
    That would be a lie. Care to prove your own point of per month basis or you have nothing?

    I wonder what Khrushchev would have said.
     
    He personally participated in it. Yeah, really, what would he have said?
  161. @jacques sheete

    ...you can find full numbers of all killed by Stalin, and it is about 600.000 for all thirty years of his rule.
     
    I believe you may have more accurately meant 600,000/month for all 30 years of his rule.

    I wonder what Khrushchev would have said.

    I believe you may have more accurately meant 600,000/month for all 30 years of his rule.

    That would be a lie. Care to prove your own point of per month basis or you have nothing?

    I wonder what Khrushchev would have said.

    He personally participated in it. Yeah, really, what would he have said?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov

    That would be a lie. Care to prove your own point of per month basis or you have nothing?
     
    Of course he can't, math is not a strong subject in "western" public school system since is replaced with all kinds of "humanities" brainwashing, so to calculate the arithmetic of 600 000 x 12 x 30 =216 million killed people is beyond the grasp of many such local "intellectuals". Nor do they have any numerical awareness and sense of scale and measure. You can sell them even 500 million people "killed" in Stalin purges and they will still believe that. Spengler in his seminal work "The Decline Of The West" dedicates (granted he was a math teacher himself) a lot to the numerical "perceptions", from integers to limits and complex numbers. "The West" is in full retreat now back to "square one"--barely capable of operating, on a mass level, with integers.
  162. iffen says:
    @Israel Shamir
    Here http://super-nep.ru/blog/43418920277/Masshtabyi-Stalinskih-repressiy-%E2%80%94-tochnyie-tsifryi?utm_campaign=transit&amp%3Butm_source=main&amp%3Butm_medium=page_0&amp%3Bdomain=mirtesen.ru&amp%3Bpaid=1&amp%3Bpad=1
    you can find full numbers of all killed by Stalin, and it is about 600.000 for all thirty years of his rule.

    Only 600,000!

    Posthumous Nobel Peace Prize award committee take note!

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  163. Hibernian says:
    @Israel Shamir
    Did he add that Trump is a Russian spy? Or that Palestinians don't exist?

    He was clearly not a friend of the Right. Don’t know his stance on Palestinians since of course the Left is split on that issue.

    Read More
  164. Andrei Martyanov [AKA "SmoothieX12"] says: • Website
    @Lyttenburgh

    I believe you may have more accurately meant 600,000/month for all 30 years of his rule.
     
    That would be a lie. Care to prove your own point of per month basis or you have nothing?

    I wonder what Khrushchev would have said.
     
    He personally participated in it. Yeah, really, what would he have said?

    That would be a lie. Care to prove your own point of per month basis or you have nothing?

    Of course he can’t, math is not a strong subject in “western” public school system since is replaced with all kinds of “humanities” brainwashing, so to calculate the arithmetic of 600 000 x 12 x 30 =216 million killed people is beyond the grasp of many such local “intellectuals”. Nor do they have any numerical awareness and sense of scale and measure. You can sell them even 500 million people “killed” in Stalin purges and they will still believe that. Spengler in his seminal work “The Decline Of The West” dedicates (granted he was a math teacher himself) a lot to the numerical “perceptions”, from integers to limits and complex numbers. “The West” is in full retreat now back to “square one”–barely capable of operating, on a mass level, with integers.

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    Of course he can’t, math is not a strong subject in “western” public school system

    Perhaps.

    Some of us can spot polemics and sophistry rather easily.

    For example, L. reports that within the Russian Empire, pogroms against the Jews only occurred where there were concentrations of Jews.
  165. iffen says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    That would be a lie. Care to prove your own point of per month basis or you have nothing?
     
    Of course he can't, math is not a strong subject in "western" public school system since is replaced with all kinds of "humanities" brainwashing, so to calculate the arithmetic of 600 000 x 12 x 30 =216 million killed people is beyond the grasp of many such local "intellectuals". Nor do they have any numerical awareness and sense of scale and measure. You can sell them even 500 million people "killed" in Stalin purges and they will still believe that. Spengler in his seminal work "The Decline Of The West" dedicates (granted he was a math teacher himself) a lot to the numerical "perceptions", from integers to limits and complex numbers. "The West" is in full retreat now back to "square one"--barely capable of operating, on a mass level, with integers.

    Of course he can’t, math is not a strong subject in “western” public school system

    Perhaps.

    Some of us can spot polemics and sophistry rather easily.

    For example, L. reports that within the Russian Empire, pogroms against the Jews only occurred where there were concentrations of Jews.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov

    For example, L. reports that within the Russian Empire, pogroms against the Jews only occurred where there were concentrations of Jews.
     
    And this relates to Stalin's purges and GULAG numbers exactly how?
  166. Andrei Martyanov [AKA "SmoothieX12"] says: • Website
    @iffen
    Of course he can’t, math is not a strong subject in “western” public school system

    Perhaps.

    Some of us can spot polemics and sophistry rather easily.

    For example, L. reports that within the Russian Empire, pogroms against the Jews only occurred where there were concentrations of Jews.

    For example, L. reports that within the Russian Empire, pogroms against the Jews only occurred where there were concentrations of Jews.

    And this relates to Stalin’s purges and GULAG numbers exactly how?

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    And this relates to Stalin’s purges and GULAG numbers exactly how?

    It relates to L.'s and your reliability when reporting and relating information.
  167. iffen says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    For example, L. reports that within the Russian Empire, pogroms against the Jews only occurred where there were concentrations of Jews.
     
    And this relates to Stalin's purges and GULAG numbers exactly how?

    And this relates to Stalin’s purges and GULAG numbers exactly how?

    It relates to L.’s and your reliability when reporting and relating information.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov

    your reliability when reporting and relating information.
     
    I spoke about pogroms? First time I hear (read) this. It is not in my rules to convey opinions on subjects in which I am not well versed. Pogroms is such an issue and that is why I keep my mouth shut on that. But since we at it and you mentioned the term "information", allow me to explain it to you in simplest terms possible:

    1. Information is not a knowledge. In fact, very often "information" obstructs the way to knowledge. Without rigid test of causality (and reliability) information, both excess and lack thereof, may become very harmful as latest events of several years demonstrated fully.

    2. I conveyed here, when speaking about numbers of GULAG, not just information, I conveyed knowledge of specialists who dealt with this issue for decades now and who can hardly be suspected in sympathies to Stalin. Most importantly, these people have access to documents. Among them, f.e. is a group of Stanford University which in late 1990s went through GULAG archives and then compiled a data base--CSPAN had their press-conference, the group was shell-shocked when giving this press-conference because of the fact that instead of billions of "repressed" they found numbers very close to what Zemskov gives. The numbers were given to everyone here by Israel Shamir. So, if you have issues with those numbers--please, refer yourself to a purely academic institutions which deal with that. Of course, in many Russians' personal experience the correctness of the order of magnitude of GULAG is supported with overwhelming empirical evidence and shared historic experience which testifies to the fact that Solzhenitsyn's (and his ilk) numbers are a complete BS.

    3. But that brings us to the most important issue:

    a) US "Russian Studies" field is populated mostly by pseudo-academic hacks and emigres of such nature as vengeful Jewish "compatriots" or Solzh types. In simpler words--it is an academic wasteland whose only task was and is to provide narrative not knowledge. Today it is an axiom, not a theorem anymore.

    b) American belief in half-billion Russians in GULAG, "Trupami Zabrosali" (Overwhelmed with corpses) a fanatical and tasteless for the most part "following" of such hacks as Solzhenitsyn, it is all in the foundation of the American nation as a shining city on the hill--the phenomenon well described by Alexis De Tocqueville: US badly needs to feel exclusive and on the "moral high ground" and the more it is not (which US is not) the more ready it will believe any bullshit which belittles any nation, but especially Russia since it is not only the nation which can obliterate US from the map but also because it is to a large (albeit not exclusively) is in the foundation of short American post WW II prosperity and whatever it is called Pax Americana or American Century of whatever the other delusional term is used. So, once Russia is portrayed as a hell on Earth (a dominant Manichean and highly uncultured US view of the world) it automatically elevates, (in many) American eyes, good ol' USA to the status of the "greatest" nation in the world. This is not the mental state (as latest events demonstrate so vividly) in which any acquaintance with cold hard facts is welcomed. This, plus, of course, classic US "elites" Russophobia based on racial attitudes to those dirty Slavs combined in a bizarre twist with barely hidden complex of inferiority.

    So, yes--500 million Russians died in GULAG.
  168. Andrei Martyanov [AKA "smoothieX12"] says: • Website
    @iffen
    And this relates to Stalin’s purges and GULAG numbers exactly how?

    It relates to L.'s and your reliability when reporting and relating information.

    your reliability when reporting and relating information.

    I spoke about pogroms? First time I hear (read) this. It is not in my rules to convey opinions on subjects in which I am not well versed. Pogroms is such an issue and that is why I keep my mouth shut on that. But since we at it and you mentioned the term “information”, allow me to explain it to you in simplest terms possible:

    1. Information is not a knowledge. In fact, very often “information” obstructs the way to knowledge. Without rigid test of causality (and reliability) information, both excess and lack thereof, may become very harmful as latest events of several years demonstrated fully.

    2. I conveyed here, when speaking about numbers of GULAG, not just information, I conveyed knowledge of specialists who dealt with this issue for decades now and who can hardly be suspected in sympathies to Stalin. Most importantly, these people have access to documents. Among them, f.e. is a group of Stanford University which in late 1990s went through GULAG archives and then compiled a data base–CSPAN had their press-conference, the group was shell-shocked when giving this press-conference because of the fact that instead of billions of “repressed” they found numbers very close to what Zemskov gives. The numbers were given to everyone here by Israel Shamir. So, if you have issues with those numbers–please, refer yourself to a purely academic institutions which deal with that. Of course, in many Russians’ personal experience the correctness of the order of magnitude of GULAG is supported with overwhelming empirical evidence and shared historic experience which testifies to the fact that Solzhenitsyn’s (and his ilk) numbers are a complete BS.

    3. But that brings us to the most important issue:

    a) US “Russian Studies” field is populated mostly by pseudo-academic hacks and emigres of such nature as vengeful Jewish “compatriots” or Solzh types. In simpler words–it is an academic wasteland whose only task was and is to provide narrative not knowledge. Today it is an axiom, not a theorem anymore.

    b) American belief in half-billion Russians in GULAG, “Trupami Zabrosali” (Overwhelmed with corpses) a fanatical and tasteless for the most part “following” of such hacks as Solzhenitsyn, it is all in the foundation of the American nation as a shining city on the hill–the phenomenon well described by Alexis De Tocqueville: US badly needs to feel exclusive and on the “moral high ground” and the more it is not (which US is not) the more ready it will believe any bullshit which belittles any nation, but especially Russia since it is not only the nation which can obliterate US from the map but also because it is to a large (albeit not exclusively) is in the foundation of short American post WW II prosperity and whatever it is called Pax Americana or American Century of whatever the other delusional term is used. So, once Russia is portrayed as a hell on Earth (a dominant Manichean and highly uncultured US view of the world) it automatically elevates, (in many) American eyes, good ol’ USA to the status of the “greatest” nation in the world. This is not the mental state (as latest events demonstrate so vividly) in which any acquaintance with cold hard facts is welcomed. This, plus, of course, classic US “elites” Russophobia based on racial attitudes to those dirty Slavs combined in a bizarre twist with barely hidden complex of inferiority.

    So, yes–500 million Russians died in GULAG.

    Read More
  169. iffen says:

    allow me to explain it to you in simplest terms possible:

    Thank you for this benevolent indulgence.

    Had you not done so, I fear that I would have been unable to grasp that this lengthy comment is chock full of mush and relays near zero information, reliable or not.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov

    Thank you for this benevolent indulgence.
     
    Thank you for your virtuoso platitudes.
  170. Andrei Martyanov [AKA "SmoothieX12"] says: • Website
    @iffen
    allow me to explain it to you in simplest terms possible:

    Thank you for this benevolent indulgence.

    Had you not done so, I fear that I would have been unable to grasp that this lengthy comment is chock full of mush and relays near zero information, reliable or not.

    Thank you for this benevolent indulgence.

    Thank you for your virtuoso platitudes.

    Read More
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