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The People Will Decide in Turkey
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The most striking feature of the failed Turkish coup has been the people’s response. The plotters did their routine right: they seized the broadcasting station, they sent a sortie to kill the president, they stationed troops in the vital points, they rolled out the tanks. They calculated everything but the people’s response. As the president survived the attempt on his life, he had made the mobile phone streaming call to the nation urging people to get out and decide their future for themselves.

At first, thousands, then tens of thousands, and even hundreds of thousands of ordinary men and women dared the army and took to the streets and the squares in response to the call of their almost deposed president. They elected him just a few months ago, and they weren’t going to let the army steal their vote. This massive popular uprising-for-the-government broke the will of the plotters. Thus history has been made in Turkey, by direct action of the people.

Amazed by the epic fail of the putsch, Erdogan’s enemies concocted a “hoax coup” conspiracy story. In the pro-Zionist Al-Monitor, a Turkish expert asked accusingly: “Why did the putschists — knowing that Erdogan was neither in Ankara nor Istanbul but instead spending his vacation in the Mediterranean seaside town of Marmaris — not move to detain him?” However, now we have this video of the armed soldiers dropping by ropes from their helicopters and storming the hotel where the president stayed – some thirty minutes after he left. The plotters moved but not fast enough.

Anyway people had no reason to think the coup was a hoax in real time. They had a rough choice: they could get out to the streets supporting the president, or sulk at home. They went out to support Erdogan. This was the best kind of election, immediate democracy, and Erdogan won that election.

Despite State Secretary Kerry’s denials, the pointers are to Washington and Tel Aviv, and perhaps to Brussels as well. Turkish top brass has long been known for its pro-NATO, pro-USA and pro-Israel sympathies. The coup leader, the Air Force commander General Akin Öztürk served as the military attaché in Tel Aviv. Bekir Ercan Van, the commander of the Incirlik air base has been arrested after his request for political asylum in the US had been refused. If they had won, they would have been applauded and feted in the West. Yes, Virginia, there was a coup, and it failed.

The man behind the coup is allegedly Fethullah Gülen, once an ally of Erdogan but now his bitter enemy. It is claimed Gülen’s organisation Hizmet (Service) forms a “deep state” or a “parallel state” in Turkey and beyond, with millions of followers in all walks of life, something similar to free masons of old. The ex-FBI whistle-blower Sibel Edmonds described Gülen’s network as a CIA asset.

The Russians run afoul of Gülen by banning Hizmet’s activities in Russia in 2008. The Turkish F-16 pilot who almost changed the history of the Middle East by shooting down the Russian SU-24 bomber over Syria on November 24, 2015 (his name was Mustafa Hajruoglu, it was claimed by his Bosnian countrymen) turned out to be a Gülen follower and a putschist, said Ankara Mayor Melih Gökçek. His helicopter was shot down in Ankara. This is not an example of fast thinking: in March 2016, the pro-government newspaper Sabah suggested that the pilot of the F-16 was a Gülen supporter and acted upon his instructions. Whether Gülen had been hostile to Russia for his own reasons or followed CIA orders, he succeeded in causing enmity between Putin and Erdogan.

Apparently, the courageous Erdogan’s decision to apologise and make up with Russia had triggered the military coup. There were rumours in Moscow that the Russian Secret Service tipped Erdogan off some minutes before the plotters’ attack thus allowing him to escape to Istanbul. This is perhaps wishful thinking.

Russians were not very consistent in the Turkish affair. After SU-24 downing, Putin spoke of being “stabbed in the back”, and Russian state media with its numerous Armenians and Jews went into hysterical overdrive producing gigabytes of hatred-for-Turkey day after day, until ordinary Russians considered Erdogan their personal and vicious enemy. Russian nationalists dreamed the old Russian pipedream of seizing Istanbul, or Constantinople, as it was called five hundred years ago, and restoring it to Christendom, a dream as futile as that of restoring Cordoba to Islam.

I wrote a few pieces in Russian calling for speedy reconciliation with Turkey and Erdogan; but my usual outlets refused to publish them. So they had to be published in rather marginal media. For freedom of speech, I am afraid, Russia is not better than the US.

When Putin agreed to reconcile, the Russian state media made an about turn pretty fast, and the ordinary Russians were happy and booked all seats on all flights to Turkey. They forgot their hatred on the spot. Just the grumpy old men in the social networks complained, baying for Turkish blood.

Israel was among the last of the states to call for constitutional order to prevail in Turkey, and even then, Netanyahu’s very brief message mainly concerned the ongoing normalisation of relations. His friend General Sisi, the military dictator of Egypt, went as far as to block a Security Council resolution condemning the coup. Quite natural, too, as he had come to power by overthrowing the elected president.

ORDER IT NOW

However, what worked in Egypt did not work in Turkey. The Turks did not surrender their freedom and their right to decide. Now, after the putsch they are free to proceed with their choice. I was particularly impressed by their sacking of the judges, in their hundreds (755, to be exact). It appears that the Deep State, the subterranean societal structures built by security services and by Gülen’s Hizmet, invested a lot of effort in judges and in the mainstream media, in the two least democratic government powers, not only in Turkey.

Turkey’s Lesson

This brings the US elections to mind. Perhaps the people of America may take a lesson or two from the Turks, while Mr Donald Trump may take a lesson or two from the Turkish president. The Turks could teach you, my American readers: do not surrender to plotters. The power rightfully belongs to you; do not allow them to usurp the power.

The Turkish would-be usurpers were generals who moved their tanks, the American would-be usurpers are more sophisticated; they move banks, politicians, parties, media, justice; but they are usurpers all the same as they reject and subvert democracy.

Democracy means letting people decide; but there is a new class that usurps this right to decide. They place themselves above democracy. They are patronising and condescending to ordinary citizen. They speak to and about the people as the Turkish officers to Erdogan voters. They think they know better. They delegitimise another view. Rather, they do not consider the majority view as being legitimate at all. They think they are superior.

This new class is not in the US only, they are everywhere. But for all their snotty arrogance, they can be beaten.

In the UK, the superior people pooh-poohed the suggestion to leave the EU. They said that only illiterate homophobe racist rednecks could vote for parting with the blessed rule of Brussels and with the right to receive millions of migrants from Poland and Turkey. Every opinion poll pointed to their victory for respondents were shy to admit they were sick of the EU and of Polish plumbers. But the English people weren’t shy to vote the way they wanted. And the would-be-usurpers were beaten.

They were beaten a second time when they tried to remove Jeremy Corbyn from his position at the helm of the Labour. Their attempted coup failed as miserably as the Turkish one. The mixture of heavily Jewish neocons, Blairites, upwardly-mobile-migrants attacked Corbyn daily in the Guardian, but the voters said: hands off.

In Russia there are superior people, too. They wanted to get rid of Putin; they hated the church he attended; they wanted to open Russian resources to the foreign interests. The Russian superior class is more candid; they can’t keep their mouth shut. They said that majority has no legitimacy, because they are not sufficiently educated, not wealthy enough, too parochial. Still, the Russian voters supported Putin in the booth and they supported him on the streets.

And now it is America’s turn. Your superior class decided Hillary Clinton should rule, for they do not trust a white man. Men are too independent. And they plotted, instead of honestly seeking your support.

We saw recently how the plotters got rid of Bernie Sanders. The votes of California weren’t counted yet, but the plotters already announced Crooked Hillary the winner. In every state, the rolls were changed in such a way as to preclude Bernie’s win. The old election machines allowed hackers to subtly alter the results. Perhaps good old Bernie himself was the Joker in the hands of plotters, the bent boxer who was paid to lose. Or perhaps he was a weak guy who could not withstand the pressure. Anyway the American plotters stole your vote as sure as the Turkish generals tried to steal the Turkish vote.

Now they are on their way to steal your vote by destroying Trump. The newspapers are at him like dogs besetting the bear at a royal hunt. No fair play for them; they are out to kill. In The New York Times, every piece on Trump is a poisoned arrow aimed at your mind. By going out against the basic rules of democracy, didn’t the owners and editors of Forbes, WSJ, NY Times et al prove to be latent putschists?

If they will fail to defeat Trump at the booth, they still have the judges. They are anything but impartial: they are the basis of the DeepState in the US as well as in Turkey.

Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, an unelected (Clinton-appointed) old hag dared to say: “I can’t imagine what this place would be — I can’t imagine what the country would be — with Donald Trump as our president”. This is a herem, a fatwa, a ban. This is a call to putsch in case of Trump’s victory. Do you think she will stop at anything to prevent Trump from gaining the White House? She and her cronies believe they are above democracy of hoi polloi.

She is not the only judge who deserves Erdogan treatment. Trump objected to a Judge Gonzalo Curiel for he is a member of La Raza (The Race), a body as exclusive as KKK or as B’nei Brith; still the Wall Street Journal would claim he objects to the judge’s ethnicity. Forbes invented a long hair-splitting explanation i.e. ‘La Raza’ is a ‘nod to our common heritage’ or that it refers to “Latinos carrying forward the culture of Rome, based in beauty and harmony, in opposition to the Saxon – barbarian – culture based on violence and domination”, which is, in my view as racist as it gets.

It’s not that I mind racism or find it an unbearable fault. After all, racism is a middle name of every second Jew I ever met. But the duplicity is annoying: why the Forbes thinks that “Latinos are beautiful and harmonious, while Anglo-Saxon culture is based on violence and domination” is less racist than vice versa?

If you insist, yes, ethnicity can influence a judge’s decision. In Israeli-Palestinian conflict, thousands of Palestinians were killed including American citizens, and no one received any compensation. But it is relatives of American Jews who collected $600 million of damages from the Palestinian authority. Is it a coincidence that the judge was Jewish?

ORDER IT NOW

Now everything depends on you. You can vote for Trump – but be prepared to go out to the streets in support of the legitimacy. Do not give in to usurpers. The Brits did it a few weeks ago by voting for Brexit. The Turks did it. You can do it, too!

This article was first published in The Unz Review.

Israel Shamir can be reached at adam@israelshamir.net

 
• Category: Foreign Policy, Ideology • Tags: Democracy, Turkey 
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  1. Despite State Secretary Kerry’s denials, the pointers are to Washington and Tel Aviv, and perhaps to Brussels as well.

    You suspect Erdogan’s will to strike a compromise with Russia on Syria, quit his country’s proactive support of ISIL may have a relation with the Ataturk airport’s bombing and the attempted coup?
    Unbelievable.

    How conspiratheoricistic of you, Shamir.

    On a serious note: Brussels?
    Corpses can’t plot.

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    • Replies: @El Dato
    After the un-coup, pretty sure proactive support of ISIS will continue unabated, any opposition having been "voted out".

    Erdogan will then tell Brussels to give money plox (about 5 billion EUR will do nicely) or more Syrian refugees might well be sent in the direction of the Northwest.

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  2. The Turks should decide the fate of Turkey. They should not decide the fate of Syria.

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  3. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Now the internationalist marketist elite decides even what countries must and must not take part in the Olympic games.

    No Russia this time. Russia has disobeyed, and only who’s nice can join the Games.

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  4. El Dato says:

    Whether Gülen had been hostile to Russia for his own reasons or followed CIA orders, he succeeded in causing enmity between Putin and Erdogan.

    That makes not much sense. What caused enmity was Erdogan’s harrumping and posturing and telling birds who would violate Turkey’s sancrosanct airspace that they would suffer the same fate (of getting shot down) not the fact that a shootdown had actually occurred for what can only be called a minor incursion (conveniently filmed by a news crew conveniently placed at the convenient place, how convenient to fire up nationalistic impulses).

    Bad blood due to the shootdown could have been resolved in half an hour with a friendly phone call.

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  5. El Dato says:
    @pink_point

    Despite State Secretary Kerry’s denials, the pointers are to Washington and Tel Aviv, and perhaps to Brussels as well.
     
    You suspect Erdogan's will to strike a compromise with Russia on Syria, quit his country's proactive support of ISIL may have a relation with the Ataturk airport's bombing and the attempted coup?
    Unbelievable.

    How conspiratheoricistic of you, Shamir.

    On a serious note: Brussels?
    Corpses can't plot.

    After the un-coup, pretty sure proactive support of ISIS will continue unabated, any opposition having been “voted out”.

    Erdogan will then tell Brussels to give money plox (about 5 billion EUR will do nicely) or more Syrian refugees might well be sent in the direction of the Northwest.

    Read More
  6. Greg S. says:

    Very good, well written article. I personally don’t think any side has clean hands here. But we will likely never know the inner political machinations that led to events unfolding how they did. It’s like wheels spinning within wheels.

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  7. The elites in this country will not allow Hildabeast to lose this election. There are too many leeches who have made fortunes by sucking American citizens dry to allow their bought and paid for candidate to lose. She will win “by any means necessary.”

    They are incapable of seeing reality from their mansions in gated communities. But they really should be more careful. They are unleashing forces that will eventually say enough is enough. When that occurs, the elites will be shown no mercy.

    And if they think their pet minorities will stay on the plantation and step in and rescue them, they will be sorely disappointed.

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  8. Avery says:

    {…..and the ordinary Russians were happy and booked all seats on all flights to Turkey. They forgot their hatred on the spot. Just the grumpy old men in the social networks complained, baying for Turkish blood.}

    [Most Russians don’t support closer ties with Turkey, poll shows]

    https://www.rt.com/politics/351225-most-russians-dont-support-closer/

    {Popular business daily Kommersant reported on Friday that a recent poll conducted by the Russian NGO Public Opinion Foundation showed 60 percent of Russian citizens believe the authorities should slow down their approach to their Turkish partners after the end of the standoff between the two nations caused by the downing of the Russian combat aircraft by Turkish Air Force in Syria.

    The share of respondents who support the fastest return of good relations between Moscow and Ankara was just 27 percent, with the remainder saying they did not have a strong opinion on the subject.}

    Apparently Shamir is either clueless about what the Russian people’s sentiment is re Türkiye, or, as usual, he shilling for genocidal, Islamofascist Turks.

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    • Replies: @Israel Shamir
    Yes! I am shilling for genocidal, Islamofascist Turks!
  9. Priss Factor [AKA "Anonymny"] says: • Website

    Erdogan is a skunk pretending to be a lion.

    Maybe he’s preferable to the alternative.

    But his Syrian venture shows he is nuts.

    He’s like a timid Hitler, a degenerate gambler without balls.

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    • Replies: @Wally
    Hitler?

    see:
    http://www.veteranstoday.com/2016/07/06/astronomer-and-science-historian-nicholas-kollerstrom-challenges-the-holocaust-industry/

    "I reckon they, i.e. people in the Holocaust establishment, believe that truth is what they want to believe.[16] They will always endeavor to undermine historical-factual debate about What Really Happened with claims about alleged emotions, of love or hate, such as: ‘You are just an anti-Semite’, or ‘You really hate …’ Whatever.[17] Or they will claim to be hurt."

    https://youtu.be/tCvblLcz0-E

  10. I agree with the analysis – the parallel with the al-Sisi coup in Egypt is a good one. I suspect Erdogan’s claim of a Gulenist coup is basically accurate. I also suspect at least some CIA/State Dept involvement, I doubt the Gulenists would move without CIA cover.

    Overall the result of the failed coup is likely to be good I think, with Erdogan both empowered to make up with Russia, & discouraged from wreaking havoc in Syria. With the Turkish army weakened, the Turk/Kurd conflict may diminish too. The big loser is CIA/State Dept goal of regional chaos (“Global Democratic Transformation”) – it seems that when CIA/State loses, humanity wins.

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    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    Apparently, the Kurdish total fertility rate (TFR) in Turkey is consistently higher than the TFR for Turks, year after year.

    Absent Turkey taking effective measures to kill or expel Kurds, this TFR differential necessarily leads to a higher percentage of Turkey's population being Kurds, and a lower percentage being Turks.

    No Turk, whether a bastard like Erdogan or someone else, should let this continue if he wants his own people to dominate and be safe and in control in their own land.

    Having said that, I would not be upset if the Kurds managed to become a much greater share of Turkey's population and successfully fight to carve substantial territory out of Turkey for a truly autonomous area, or eventually an independent country. Americans and good people everywhere should celebrate the demise of the Turks right along with our Armenian and Russian cousins.
  11. Boris N says:

    I was just about to praise the author for his revealing the hypocrisy of the Russian state media but everything was ruined when I stumbled upon this:

    In Russia there are superior people, too. They wanted to get rid of Putin; they hated the church he attended; they wanted to open Russian resources to the foreign interests.

    I know nearly every dissenter in the West sooner or later becomes Putinist, and Mr. Shamir is no exception, but I couldn’t help but comment.

    No, Mr Shamir. It is not the alleged Russian putschists (do you mean such as Mr Strelkov?) who want to get rid of Putin and thus of Russians’ choice. It is Putin who has got rid of Russians. It does not matter if he goes to church if it is all for a show, pretending to be a good old pious tsar is just a part of his role playing. It is not putschists who want to sell out Russia to foreigners, it is Putin, a sincere follower of his godfather Yeltsin, who has sold out Russia in its entirety. There is no Russia, there is no state, but a colonial oil and gaz pump, a mine, just a territory controlled by transnational companies, while Russian officials, Putin included, are nothing more than appointed CEOs. Russia is best explained in the terms of some sort of a revived version of the East India Company (should it be called the Muscovy Company 2.0?)

    The Russian superior class is more candid; they can’t keep their mouth shut. They said that majority has no legitimacy, because they are not sufficiently educated, not wealthy enough, too parochial.

    It is a very dirty trick to restrict any Russian dissent to 1% Moscow Russia-hating hipsters, implying the remaining 99% are pro-Putin. But the reality is that a great swathe of the Russian population despise equally the Russia-hating hipsters and the Kremlin robbing clique. You see, being anti-Putin does not make you a Russia-hating hipster. The question about legitimacy is not about how many support Putin (really, not many), but how and why it has so happened that 90% of Russian wealth is owned by the Kremlin clique and their affiliates, while 90% of Russians own just 10% of Russian wealth. Or to put it straight: who do you think you are, Mr Putin and his oligarch friend, to own and rob my own country?

    Still, the Russian voters supported Putin in the booth and they supported him on the streets.

    Well, when you and your party control quite everything, especially the media, when you have enormous managerial resources (practically every Russian official and bureaucrat, from top to bottom, is a member of the United Russia or tamed pseudo-opposition parties, the good days of the one-party rule are here again), so it is not too hard to convince some tens of millions of voters (in 2012 Putin got officially 45M voters, hardly an ultimate majority in a 150M country), and in case the state propaganda machine fails to convince, there is always an option to make up the right results (here we got those 45M). You think Putin is a Russian Trump, but Putin is a Russian Deep State.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    45m out of 150m? Doesn't work that way as a great part of that 150m are minors/unregistere. However the rest of your rant does seem reasonable.
    , @Anatoly Karlin
    This is nonsensical.

    There remain comprador elements within Russia, many of them significantly inherited from Yeltsinism (Chubais etc) but they have an order of magnitude less influence today than back then.

    In the end, a truly colonial state would have never reclaimed Crimea and would never have supported the LDNR.
  12. Boris N says:

    P.S.

    I wrote a few pieces in Russian calling for speedy reconciliation with Turkey and Erdogan; but my usual outlets refused to publish them. So they had to be published in rather marginal media. For freedom of speech, I am afraid, Russia is not better than the US.

    It is a bitter irony that a sincere devoted Putinist is not allowed to speak when his opinion does not comply with the party line. It could be a good lesson for them, but Putinists will never understand.

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    • Replies: @dahoit
    Saying that the media there is as corrupt as here,is Putinist?
    I bet the ownership there reflects the ownership here,unless Russians are more patriotic than US,and wouldn't put up with mole traitors.
    Are you the last commie?One of those who find fault with nationalism and the right of self determination,and back elitist scum conspiring to control us all?
  13. Che Guava says:

    Hello, Mr. Shamir.

    I agree with much of your post, but I found my own thinking on the coup reflected in an article by Pepe Escobar.

    http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/07/18/the-attempted-coup-in-turkey-hell-hath-no-fury-like-a-teflon-sultan/

    It is on other sites, too.

    The old cui bono certainly works in favour of the idea that it was effectively a coup by Erdogan himself.

    You also seem to understate the scale of the purge of the judiciary.

    in their hundreds (755, to be exact)

    Figures I’ve read place it between three and four times that.

    Fethullah Gülen may, as you suggest, have been behind it, but in that case, it was a battle between rival Islamisms. The Gulenists may be a little like Freemasons of an earlier age, but are also based on strict Islamic observance.

    Erdogan seems to have taken full advantage of the situation to purge secularists, I find it very hard to believe that any but a tiny minority of the 2,000+ purged judges had any connection with the coup, particularly one so poorly planned and executed.

    As always, you make some good points on the coup itself, but I disagree with much of your interpretation of it.

    Remain a fan, boring world if everybody always has to agree on everything (as in most of the contemporary left and all of the neolibcons).

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  14. General Sisi, the military dictator of Egypt, went as far as to block a Security Council resolution condemning the coup. Quite natural, too, as he had come to power by overthrowing the elected president. However, what worked in Egypt did not work in Turkey.

    Which only proves that, unlike Morsi in Egypt, Erdogan was already in control of the deep state in Turkey. All of the Kemalists were purged from the army years ago during the Ergenekon show-trials. Why do you think this coup was so pathetic? Obviously, it was set up to fail. If there’s one thing the Turkish Army know how to do, it’s overthrowing Turkish governments!

    Of course, none of that proves that Washington didn’t play a role in it; it just strongly suggests that, along with the handful of officers who took part, it was Washington that got played here.

    One way or another, this is a divorce. Turkey and NATO are now splitsville! This could yet become the biggest disaster in mid-east policy for the US since the Iranian Revolution of 1979–perhaps bigger. And Turkey, like Iran, will now become and Islamic Republic.

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    • Agree: Che Guava
    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey SP,

    And Turkey, like Iran, will now become and Islamic Republic.
     
    It will likely become more like a more educated and less tribal version of (Islamic Repulic of) Pakistan where the military still holds significant power (and is known to have coup attempts) and the Muslim scholars are involved a judicial system that incorporates Shariah rulings (for instance, both nations are majority Hanafi which traditionally allows female judges - http://www.dawn.com/news/1077328). Hopefully it will be able to avoid the massive corruption and radicalization endemic in Pakistan.

    Peace.
    , @Rurik
    Hey SP,

    Turkey and NATO are now splitsville!
     
    that just sounds too good to be true

    all of these articles are very interesting and these events seem tantalizing, especially the part about Obama and Merkel and the other Zio-quislings approving of the coup. Don't they know they're supposed to wait until it's successful before they give their blessings?!

    The part about Mr. Shamir's article that I had a problem with was this

    Whether Gülen had been hostile to Russia for his own reasons or followed CIA orders, he succeeded in causing enmity between Putin and Erdogan.
     
    Putin and Eddogan were already fighting a proxy war in Syria. So there was already enmity. Shooting down the Russian jet was simply escalating the already cold war into a warm war between the two states.

    Anyways, I certainly hope you're right about a split between NATO and Turkey. As an American who's appalled at the evil my government has been doing, anything that puts obstacles in the way of the fiends in control of Washington DC, can only be a very good thing.

    God speed to Putin and the good citizens of Turkey and Syria and all those who oppose the Fiend.

    Trump in 16!
  15. The people, if they ever truly decide anything, are soon undermined and the parasites waste no time in re-establishing the staus quo ante, unfortunately.

    I wish I had “the” answer.

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  16. Usually I like Israel Shamir’s analysis, but in this case, Mike Whitney does a much better job: http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/07/20/the-coup-in-turkey-has-thrown-a-wrench-in-uncle-sams-pivot-plan/

    And yes, people, this is big. It could be the story of 2016, even overshadowing Brexit.

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  17. Rehmat says:

    Dear Shamir, I know you always have a soft spot for the Ottoman Empire – but the Ottoman empire in the past and the current Erdogan’s AKP government doesn’t represent the great-majority of Turkish population which are proud of their religion and Islamic history.

    AKP is popular amongst the so-called “Islamists” because AKP leaders use Islam to fool the masses while in practice sleep with anti-Islam United States and Israel. Furthermore, after suffering under the yoke of Crypto-Jewish Kemalist dictatorship for over 80 years – most Turks would support even a dog who dare to bark at anti-Islam Turk military establishment.

    Most Turks are against Erdogan’s Syrian adventure. They showed their anger during last year’s election which resulted in AKP losing its majority.

    https://rehmat1.com/2015/06/09/turks-slap-erdogans-ruling-akp-over-its-syrian-policy/

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  18. Che Guava says:

    I am about to read it in full, but Edward Luttwalk, the despicable neocon, has some interesting things to say in an article on a despicable neolibcon site.

    http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/07/16/why-turkeys-coup-detat-failed-erdogan/

    This interests me because I found my copy of his book Coup d’Etat! in a second-hand book (and poster, comic, porn, video) barn in outer urban Tokyo.

    My copy was printed in the Philippines (oddly enough) long ago, on the pulpiest of pulp paper, I greatly enjoyed reading it.

    He has claimed on occasion that it was never intended as a textbook.

    To me, it reads as if it had been commissioned by the CIA, precisely as a textbook.

    Interestingly, his article on why the coup in Turkey failed starts (and likely ends) with an analysis of the coup on the basis of a book that he claims was never intended as a textbook.

    I commend the article by this distasteful author on a distasteful site to Mr. Shamir and other Unzers.

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  19. Che Guava says:

    Actually, Luttwalk’s article is more interesting than I expected, but very brief. He didn’t discuss everything in terms of his textbook, a little disappointed by that.

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  20. @Avery
    {.....and the ordinary Russians were happy and booked all seats on all flights to Turkey. They forgot their hatred on the spot. Just the grumpy old men in the social networks complained, baying for Turkish blood.}

    [Most Russians don’t support closer ties with Turkey, poll shows]
    https://www.rt.com/politics/351225-most-russians-dont-support-closer/

    {Popular business daily Kommersant reported on Friday that a recent poll conducted by the Russian NGO Public Opinion Foundation showed 60 percent of Russian citizens believe the authorities should slow down their approach to their Turkish partners after the end of the standoff between the two nations caused by the downing of the Russian combat aircraft by Turkish Air Force in Syria.

    The share of respondents who support the fastest return of good relations between Moscow and Ankara was just 27 percent, with the remainder saying they did not have a strong opinion on the subject.}

    Apparently Shamir is either clueless about what the Russian people's sentiment is re Türkiye, or, as usual, he shilling for genocidal, Islamofascist Turks.

    Yes! I am shilling for genocidal, Islamofascist Turks!

    Read More
  21. Talha says:
    @Seamus Padraig

    General Sisi, the military dictator of Egypt, went as far as to block a Security Council resolution condemning the coup. Quite natural, too, as he had come to power by overthrowing the elected president. However, what worked in Egypt did not work in Turkey.
     
    Which only proves that, unlike Morsi in Egypt, Erdogan was already in control of the deep state in Turkey. All of the Kemalists were purged from the army years ago during the Ergenekon show-trials. Why do you think this coup was so pathetic? Obviously, it was set up to fail. If there's one thing the Turkish Army know how to do, it's overthrowing Turkish governments!

    Of course, none of that proves that Washington didn't play a role in it; it just strongly suggests that, along with the handful of officers who took part, it was Washington that got played here.

    One way or another, this is a divorce. Turkey and NATO are now splitsville! This could yet become the biggest disaster in mid-east policy for the US since the Iranian Revolution of 1979--perhaps bigger. And Turkey, like Iran, will now become and Islamic Republic.

    Hey SP,

    And Turkey, like Iran, will now become and Islamic Republic.

    It will likely become more like a more educated and less tribal version of (Islamic Repulic of) Pakistan where the military still holds significant power (and is known to have coup attempts) and the Muslim scholars are involved a judicial system that incorporates Shariah rulings (for instance, both nations are majority Hanafi which traditionally allows female judges – http://www.dawn.com/news/1077328). Hopefully it will be able to avoid the massive corruption and radicalization endemic in Pakistan.

    Peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rehmat
    Nyeth Moshe, Pakistan is far better than the Zionist entity when it comes human rights and hatred toward minorities. Both countries founded on religion of Islam and Judaism.

    Your source DAWN is owned and run by a rich secularist families of Haroon and Saigal from Karachi. It regularly carries syndicated articles from Jewish-controlled newspapers like The Independent, The Guardian, the Los Angeles Times and The Washington Post.

    Pakistan's Constitution is not based on Islamic Shari'ah but more on British colonial traditions.

    Who hate Pakistan?

    Let me introduce to UK's gay rights campaigner Peter Gary Tatchell , who called upon David Cameron government to stop all aid to Islamabad until it protect rights of its Christian minority (2.8 million), and gays, earlier this month.

    https://rehmat1.com/2016/07/11/uk-gay-leader-stop-aid-to-pakistan/
    , @Seamus Padraig
    I would hope--for the sake of both Turkey and the middle east at large--that Erdogan will be able to produce something more functional than Pakistan. The Pakis remind me of that old joke about Prussia: 'Not a kingdom that has an army, but rather an army that has a kingdom.' At least Prussia was stable and well-run though.
  22. The coup was incompetently executed. If you are going to kill the King, you kill the King. You don’t mince words, or simply send someone to do it, the rest of the coup is dependent on the most important thing – kill the King first. They didn’t, so the whole thing unraveled.

    From what I can tell, those arrested are not Gulenists, but Kemalists. Erdogan has been working to purge Turkey of Kemalists from positions of power and influence. Mustafa Kemal set up Turkey in a way that made the military the guarantor of the constitution, and Erdogan can’t tolerate that and accomplish making Turkey an Islamist country.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Che Guava
    QM, have you read the Luttwalk textbook on coups d'etat? I used to have a dream of making a video game based on it, it would be a good game.

    Likely never have the time.

    However, killing is not the only nor best way to neutralise the deposed head of state, from my own thoughts:

    exile in an enemy state that is ineffectual,

    permanent house arrest,

    consignment to a nicely equipped flat or house in a mental hospital with large grounds, exempted from being treated as a patient.

    Erdogan sure is delusional, with his thousand-room palace &c., and clinically mad paranoid, only for his own actions to push him into the realm of insanity.

    Mr. Shamir did have a new and interesting point to add (among a few others).

    Whether that vid. was real or a quick fiction, after the fact (I suspect the latter), I do not know. Also suspect that, if not already, it will soon disappear.

    However, now we have this video of the armed soldiers dropping by ropes from their helicopters and storming the hotel where the president stayed – some thirty minutes after he left.
     
    Since it is so much later, I would assume that it was fabricated for the true coup d'etat by Sultana Erdogan, still in progress now, but sure, I do not know, but I would always assume Mr. Shamir to write in good faith, even if I think he is badly mistaken on rare occasions, such as this.

    As a side thing, it is interesting that the Turkish flags on today's news appear to be made of PVC, or similar. Most places, the flags are made of cloth, but the Turkish flags behind Erdogan were clearly made of plastic.

    Sure, that is just poor taste, but hardly surprising.
  23. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Boris N
    I was just about to praise the author for his revealing the hypocrisy of the Russian state media but everything was ruined when I stumbled upon this:

    In Russia there are superior people, too. They wanted to get rid of Putin; they hated the church he attended; they wanted to open Russian resources to the foreign interests.
     
    I know nearly every dissenter in the West sooner or later becomes Putinist, and Mr. Shamir is no exception, but I couldn't help but comment.

    No, Mr Shamir. It is not the alleged Russian putschists (do you mean such as Mr Strelkov?) who want to get rid of Putin and thus of Russians' choice. It is Putin who has got rid of Russians. It does not matter if he goes to church if it is all for a show, pretending to be a good old pious tsar is just a part of his role playing. It is not putschists who want to sell out Russia to foreigners, it is Putin, a sincere follower of his godfather Yeltsin, who has sold out Russia in its entirety. There is no Russia, there is no state, but a colonial oil and gaz pump, a mine, just a territory controlled by transnational companies, while Russian officials, Putin included, are nothing more than appointed CEOs. Russia is best explained in the terms of some sort of a revived version of the East India Company (should it be called the Muscovy Company 2.0?)

    The Russian superior class is more candid; they can’t keep their mouth shut. They said that majority has no legitimacy, because they are not sufficiently educated, not wealthy enough, too parochial.
     
    It is a very dirty trick to restrict any Russian dissent to 1% Moscow Russia-hating hipsters, implying the remaining 99% are pro-Putin. But the reality is that a great swathe of the Russian population despise equally the Russia-hating hipsters and the Kremlin robbing clique. You see, being anti-Putin does not make you a Russia-hating hipster. The question about legitimacy is not about how many support Putin (really, not many), but how and why it has so happened that 90% of Russian wealth is owned by the Kremlin clique and their affiliates, while 90% of Russians own just 10% of Russian wealth. Or to put it straight: who do you think you are, Mr Putin and his oligarch friend, to own and rob my own country?

    Still, the Russian voters supported Putin in the booth and they supported him on the streets.
     
    Well, when you and your party control quite everything, especially the media, when you have enormous managerial resources (practically every Russian official and bureaucrat, from top to bottom, is a member of the United Russia or tamed pseudo-opposition parties, the good days of the one-party rule are here again), so it is not too hard to convince some tens of millions of voters (in 2012 Putin got officially 45M voters, hardly an ultimate majority in a 150M country), and in case the state propaganda machine fails to convince, there is always an option to make up the right results (here we got those 45M). You think Putin is a Russian Trump, but Putin is a Russian Deep State.

    45m out of 150m? Doesn’t work that way as a great part of that 150m are minors/unregistere. However the rest of your rant does seem reasonable.

    Read More
    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    Exactly. For a meaningful measure, we need to know how many Russians were registered to vote in that election.
    , @Boris N
    You've nearly got me, but no. Russia is a relatively ageing nation, so the number of minors (<18yo) is not large, just about 27M, so the number of potential voters is around 147M-27M=120M. However, in 2012 only 110M voters were registered. I'm not sure where 10M disappeared, but we leave this mystery for now. So even with all the electoral machinations you hardly got 40% of Russians who voted for Putin. So it is a deliberate misleading statement to say that "Russians are for Putin". No, just 40% of them, and this number has obviously been falsified and inflated. You see, Russians voted against Putin just by not going to "the election of Putin".

    And the election of the "Party of Power" was even more pathetic. In many provincial cities the United Russia hardly got 30%, and many just ignored the elections altogether.
    Because for many Russians, especially in provincial regions, the "Party of Power" is associated only with the greedy corrupted bureaucrats from their local governments, and most of those officials were members of the Communist Party of the SU in the past. So the situation is really hopeless. You saw the corrupted nomenklatura somewhere in 1985, but after 30 years the very same persons are still in power.

    But what will surprise and even frighten most Westerners and the Western establishment particularly is that when Russians refused to vote for the UR they voted not for pro-Western liberals, but Russians were so desperate to vote for anybody but not for the "Party" that they voted for the Russian communists! In fact, the communists won in many electoral districts, particularly in urban areas. So the Western establishment must really appreciate Putin and the UR, because their alternative are not liberals, but communists (in the modern Russian reality the "Russian communists" are rather left socialist populists than classical hard-core communists).
  24. Rurik says:
    @Seamus Padraig

    General Sisi, the military dictator of Egypt, went as far as to block a Security Council resolution condemning the coup. Quite natural, too, as he had come to power by overthrowing the elected president. However, what worked in Egypt did not work in Turkey.
     
    Which only proves that, unlike Morsi in Egypt, Erdogan was already in control of the deep state in Turkey. All of the Kemalists were purged from the army years ago during the Ergenekon show-trials. Why do you think this coup was so pathetic? Obviously, it was set up to fail. If there's one thing the Turkish Army know how to do, it's overthrowing Turkish governments!

    Of course, none of that proves that Washington didn't play a role in it; it just strongly suggests that, along with the handful of officers who took part, it was Washington that got played here.

    One way or another, this is a divorce. Turkey and NATO are now splitsville! This could yet become the biggest disaster in mid-east policy for the US since the Iranian Revolution of 1979--perhaps bigger. And Turkey, like Iran, will now become and Islamic Republic.

    Hey SP,

    Turkey and NATO are now splitsville!

    that just sounds too good to be true

    all of these articles are very interesting and these events seem tantalizing, especially the part about Obama and Merkel and the other Zio-quislings approving of the coup. Don’t they know they’re supposed to wait until it’s successful before they give their blessings?!

    The part about Mr. Shamir’s article that I had a problem with was this

    Whether Gülen had been hostile to Russia for his own reasons or followed CIA orders, he succeeded in causing enmity between Putin and Erdogan.

    Putin and Eddogan were already fighting a proxy war in Syria. So there was already enmity. Shooting down the Russian jet was simply escalating the already cold war into a warm war between the two states.

    Anyways, I certainly hope you’re right about a split between NATO and Turkey. As an American who’s appalled at the evil my government has been doing, anything that puts obstacles in the way of the fiends in control of Washington DC, can only be a very good thing.

    God speed to Putin and the good citizens of Turkey and Syria and all those who oppose the Fiend.

    Trump in 16!

    Read More
    • Replies: @utu
    "Shooting down the Russian jet was simply escalating the already cold war into a warm war between the two states." - I think that shooting down of Su-24 at the time was very important to prevent rapprochement between Russia and France (NATO) that was briefly in the making after the bombing in Paris. But after downing the Russian plane all NATO countries had to close the ranks behind Washington policy towards Russia. The French aircraft carrier Charles de Gaulle was redirected to Persian Gulf through the Red Sea instead of being position next to Russian navy off the coast of Syria. It is possible to imagine that Erdogan at that time was not behind the downing of Su-24. Russia decided to give him the benefit of the doubt and will pretend to believe that the pilots were the Gulem followers instigated by American agents in Turkish military. A show trial of the pilots can make this make version canonical.
    , @SolontoCroesus
    imo valorizing Erdogan is betting on the wrong horse. He killed his own soldiers (but then so did Stalin, and everyone thought that was heroic). His goal is to consolidate power and rule as an authoritarian.

    Several others have analyzed the situation in Turkey differently --

    Phil Giraldi had some interesting things to say about the coup - failed coup - hoax coup? - what's Obama gonna do about the coup-do, http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/a-very-predictable-coup/

    Kimberly Kagan's outfit, the Institute for the Study of War, had this to say: http://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/how-turkey-could-become-next-pakistan


    there's the little matter of loose nukes at Incirlik.
    http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/the-h-bombs-in-turkey


    Pat Lang at SicSemperTyrannis and his Committee of Correspondence from all over the world, including on the ground in Turkey, have been watching the situation closely -- especially those nukes --

    http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2016/07/erdogan-to-announce-tomorrow-major-policy-change-after-the-national-security-council-mgk-could-be-something-drastic-like.html

    http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2016/07/httpwwwunderstandingwarorgbackgrounderhow-turkey-could-become-next-pakistan.html
  25. Rehmat says:
    @Talha
    Hey SP,

    And Turkey, like Iran, will now become and Islamic Republic.
     
    It will likely become more like a more educated and less tribal version of (Islamic Repulic of) Pakistan where the military still holds significant power (and is known to have coup attempts) and the Muslim scholars are involved a judicial system that incorporates Shariah rulings (for instance, both nations are majority Hanafi which traditionally allows female judges - http://www.dawn.com/news/1077328). Hopefully it will be able to avoid the massive corruption and radicalization endemic in Pakistan.

    Peace.

    Nyeth Moshe, Pakistan is far better than the Zionist entity when it comes human rights and hatred toward minorities. Both countries founded on religion of Islam and Judaism.

    Your source DAWN is owned and run by a rich secularist families of Haroon and Saigal from Karachi. It regularly carries syndicated articles from Jewish-controlled newspapers like The Independent, The Guardian, the Los Angeles Times and The Washington Post.

    Pakistan’s Constitution is not based on Islamic Shari’ah but more on British colonial traditions.

    Who hate Pakistan?

    Let me introduce to UK’s gay rights campaigner Peter Gary Tatchell , who called upon David Cameron government to stop all aid to Islamabad until it protect rights of its Christian minority (2.8 million), and gays, earlier this month.

    https://rehmat1.com/2016/07/11/uk-gay-leader-stop-aid-to-pakistan/

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Salaam Rehmat,

    At the risk of getting a more insulting response from you...


    Nyeth Moshe
     
    Your obsession with seeing anyone who does not agree with you as being Jewish needs help. And I mean that in the most sincere way.

    Your source DAWN is owned and run by a rich secularist families
     
    Sure, which papers in Pakistan aren't run by the secular elite? Maybe you know of some run by a conglomeration of Balochi villagers? Are you saying the story is false?

    Pakistan’s Constitution is not based on Islamic Shari’ah but more on British colonial traditions.
     
    Agreed, but that's why top-level muftis like the Usmanis are involved in the restructuring of the laws since it was started under Gen. Zia (ra).

    Who hate Pakistan?
     
    Lots of people - what does this have to do with anything?

    Peace.

  26. Talha says:
    @Rehmat
    Nyeth Moshe, Pakistan is far better than the Zionist entity when it comes human rights and hatred toward minorities. Both countries founded on religion of Islam and Judaism.

    Your source DAWN is owned and run by a rich secularist families of Haroon and Saigal from Karachi. It regularly carries syndicated articles from Jewish-controlled newspapers like The Independent, The Guardian, the Los Angeles Times and The Washington Post.

    Pakistan's Constitution is not based on Islamic Shari'ah but more on British colonial traditions.

    Who hate Pakistan?

    Let me introduce to UK's gay rights campaigner Peter Gary Tatchell , who called upon David Cameron government to stop all aid to Islamabad until it protect rights of its Christian minority (2.8 million), and gays, earlier this month.

    https://rehmat1.com/2016/07/11/uk-gay-leader-stop-aid-to-pakistan/

    Salaam Rehmat,

    At the risk of getting a more insulting response from you…

    Nyeth Moshe

    Your obsession with seeing anyone who does not agree with you as being Jewish needs help. And I mean that in the most sincere way.

    Your source DAWN is owned and run by a rich secularist families

    Sure, which papers in Pakistan aren’t run by the secular elite? Maybe you know of some run by a conglomeration of Balochi villagers? Are you saying the story is false?

    Pakistan’s Constitution is not based on Islamic Shari’ah but more on British colonial traditions.

    Agreed, but that’s why top-level muftis like the Usmanis are involved in the restructuring of the laws since it was started under Gen. Zia (ra).

    Who hate Pakistan?

    Lots of people – what does this have to do with anything?

    Peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rehmat
    You're more dumb than I thought.

    Who hate Pakistan more than Zionist Jews and extremist Hindus?

    Were Usmanis ever became prime minister, president or C-in-C of Pakistan?

    Gen. Zia-ul-Haq was very close to Jewish Saudi 'royals', and pro-Israel Qadiani leaders.

    So, if DAWN is run by anti-Islam secular group - all Pakistani news and TV media is owned by secularist just like the western media and TV is run by Zionist Jews - What an excuse to cover your stupidity!!

    Are to a disciple of Salman Rushde?

    Pulitzer Prize-winning Jew York Times journalist Carlotta Gall in her new book, ‘The Wrong Enemy: America in Afghanistan’ has claimed the US has been waging a war against a wrong enemy for the last thirteen years. She claims the real enemy is Pakistan and not Afghanistan.

    The Jewish Lobby has been calling Washington to attack Pakistan since early 1950s – decades before Pakistan became the sole nuclear power among 57 Muslim majority states.

    Bruce Riedel, former CIA official and currently employed by US-Israel citizen, billionaire Haim Saban at the Brookings Institute, wrote at Jewish Tablet magazine (June 27, 2011): “We need a military presence in Afghanistan so we continue to send drones and commandos over the Pakistani border. We don’t need 100,000 troops in Afghanistan, but we do Afghan permission to operate in that country for the long term. That is the other hard lesson Abbottabad.” Riedel was referring to the assassination of Osama bin Laden in Abbottabad (Pakistan) which has long been proved to be a hoax.

    Selig S. Harrison, south-Asian expert at Jewish-funded Center for International Policy (CIP), in 2011 article, entitled ‘Free Balochistan’, called Washington to provide funds and military aid to anti-Islamabad rebels who wants to establish a pro-Israel Eretz Balochistan over Pakistan-Iran territory.

    “Pakistan has given China a base at Gwadar in the heart of Baloch territory. So an independent Balochistan would serve US strategic interests (against Iran and China) in addition to countering (anti-Israel) Islamist forces,” said Harrison. The Zionist moron ignores the fact that the entire Gwadar Port project was funded and built by Chinese companies. Islamabad has leased the operation of Gwadar Port to China for the next 25 years to recover its investment.

    https://rehmat1.com/2014/04/27/jewish-author-pakistan-is-the-us-enemy/
  27. @Simon in London
    I agree with the analysis - the parallel with the al-Sisi coup in Egypt is a good one. I suspect Erdogan's claim of a Gulenist coup is basically accurate. I also suspect at least some CIA/State Dept involvement, I doubt the Gulenists would move without CIA cover.

    Overall the result of the failed coup is likely to be good I think, with Erdogan both empowered to make up with Russia, & discouraged from wreaking havoc in Syria. With the Turkish army weakened, the Turk/Kurd conflict may diminish too. The big loser is CIA/State Dept goal of regional chaos ("Global Democratic Transformation") - it seems that when CIA/State loses, humanity wins.

    Apparently, the Kurdish total fertility rate (TFR) in Turkey is consistently higher than the TFR for Turks, year after year.

    Absent Turkey taking effective measures to kill or expel Kurds, this TFR differential necessarily leads to a higher percentage of Turkey’s population being Kurds, and a lower percentage being Turks.

    No Turk, whether a bastard like Erdogan or someone else, should let this continue if he wants his own people to dominate and be safe and in control in their own land.

    Having said that, I would not be upset if the Kurds managed to become a much greater share of Turkey’s population and successfully fight to carve substantial territory out of Turkey for a truly autonomous area, or eventually an independent country. Americans and good people everywhere should celebrate the demise of the Turks right along with our Armenian and Russian cousins.

    Read More
  28. @Anonymous
    45m out of 150m? Doesn't work that way as a great part of that 150m are minors/unregistere. However the rest of your rant does seem reasonable.

    Exactly. For a meaningful measure, we need to know how many Russians were registered to vote in that election.

    Read More
  29. utu says:
    @Rurik
    Hey SP,

    Turkey and NATO are now splitsville!
     
    that just sounds too good to be true

    all of these articles are very interesting and these events seem tantalizing, especially the part about Obama and Merkel and the other Zio-quislings approving of the coup. Don't they know they're supposed to wait until it's successful before they give their blessings?!

    The part about Mr. Shamir's article that I had a problem with was this

    Whether Gülen had been hostile to Russia for his own reasons or followed CIA orders, he succeeded in causing enmity between Putin and Erdogan.
     
    Putin and Eddogan were already fighting a proxy war in Syria. So there was already enmity. Shooting down the Russian jet was simply escalating the already cold war into a warm war between the two states.

    Anyways, I certainly hope you're right about a split between NATO and Turkey. As an American who's appalled at the evil my government has been doing, anything that puts obstacles in the way of the fiends in control of Washington DC, can only be a very good thing.

    God speed to Putin and the good citizens of Turkey and Syria and all those who oppose the Fiend.

    Trump in 16!

    “Shooting down the Russian jet was simply escalating the already cold war into a warm war between the two states.” – I think that shooting down of Su-24 at the time was very important to prevent rapprochement between Russia and France (NATO) that was briefly in the making after the bombing in Paris. But after downing the Russian plane all NATO countries had to close the ranks behind Washington policy towards Russia. The French aircraft carrier Charles de Gaulle was redirected to Persian Gulf through the Red Sea instead of being position next to Russian navy off the coast of Syria. It is possible to imagine that Erdogan at that time was not behind the downing of Su-24. Russia decided to give him the benefit of the doubt and will pretend to believe that the pilots were the Gulem followers instigated by American agents in Turkish military. A show trial of the pilots can make this make version canonical.

    Read More
  30. virgile says:

    The Sunni Islamic Republic of Egypt failed under a military coup. The Islamic Republic of Turkey defeated the military coup, thanks to the ‘ courageous’ Turks who went to the streets to defend “democracy” .They are up for very unpleasant surprises. Been ruled by religion can be much worse than been ruled by military. Ask the Iranians and the Saudis.
    The Turks have been fooled to believe they were saving democracy. They saved Erdogan, a megalomaniac and have put themselves totally under his control. The Islamists who saved him will now ask for payback. Get ready for the collapse of secularism in Turkey just as it collapsed in Iran. Get ready for massive migration, not of Syrians but of secular Turks fleeing the religious dictatorship .
    Turkey’s face will change and the people who were hailing Erdogan the ‘democrat’ will be biting their fingers with regrets…

    The USA did not make the coup, they helped to foil it! Erdogan is an acceptable Sunni dictator who needs the USA, why would the USA get rid of him?

    Read More
  31. Wally says:
    @Priss Factor
    Erdogan is a skunk pretending to be a lion.

    Maybe he's preferable to the alternative.

    But his Syrian venture shows he is nuts.

    He's like a timid Hitler, a degenerate gambler without balls.

    Hitler?

    see:

    http://www.veteranstoday.com/2016/07/06/astronomer-and-science-historian-nicholas-kollerstrom-challenges-the-holocaust-industry/

    “I reckon they, i.e. people in the Holocaust establishment, believe that truth is what they want to believe.[16] They will always endeavor to undermine historical-factual debate about What Really Happened with claims about alleged emotions, of love or hate, such as: ‘You are just an anti-Semite’, or ‘You really hate …’ Whatever.[17] Or they will claim to be hurt.”

    Read More
    • Agree: Jacques Sheete
    • Replies: @Priss Factor
    Holocaust(and other tragedies of WWII) were so horrible that they needed no exaggeration.

    But unfortunately, some Jews did cook things up to make Holocaust even worse.
    There was no need for this since it was horrible beyond imagining.

    I grew up with stories of soaps, lamp shades, and etc, all of which I believed.
    It made Nazi seem even more sinister.

    It's like you don't have to add Godzilla to Hiroshima to make it seem horrible. Even if the bomb didn't unleash Godzilla, it was horrible enough.

    Because there were so many lies and hoaxes added to make Holocaust seem even worse, the deniers point to such and say the WHOLE thing was a hoax.
    That's throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

    Among legit historians, recent studies show that the number of Jews killed in gas chambers was greatly exaggerated. Much of the killing happened with gunshots to the head in the battle fields.

    But I grew up thinking most Jews were killed in shower rooms by gas. It's become such a fixture of the Holocaust narrative that it messes up the discourse.

    Whenever someone says that death-by-gassing was exaggerated, Jews scream and call him a Holocaust denier.
    But then, there are deniers who use such exaggerations and falsehoods to say there never was a Holocaust at all.
    They are like Japanese far-right nuts who claim that, just because some accounts of Nanking massacre were false, the whole thing must be a farce.

    Surely, there is a sane ground, but the issue has been too politicized.

    I think there is a way to counter the Holocaust Industry(filled with slimeballs like Abe Foxman) without denying the industrial death machine that was the Holocaust.

    Also, the term 'holocaust survivor' has to be revised. For the longest time, I thought a holocaust survivor was someone who experienced the camps and full brutality of the Nazi machine. I would call them survivors.

    But the term includes just about any Jew who happened to live in zones of Nazi occupation. Sure, all faced hardships, but many didn't come face to face with near-death. In France, 1/4 of the Jewish population got shipped to the camps. If any survived, I would call them holocaust survivors.
    But under current use of term, just about any Jew who lived in Nazi area of occupation was a 'holocaust survivor'. That is nuts.
    , @Jacques Sheete
    I agree with you.

    Totally hilarious how some people believe 75 year old propaganda regarding Hitler. I guess brainwashing works. Probably a waste of time answering it.

    Anyway...


    "The least of the lessons that revisionism can teach has already been thoroughly learned ( ed: by a select few): that Germany and Japan are not uniquely "aggressor nations," doomed from birth to menace the peace of the world. The larger lessons have, unfortunately, yet to be learned.


    Now revisionism teaches us that this entire myth, so prevalent then and even now about Hitler, and about the Japanese, is a tissue of fallacies from beginning to end. Every plank in this nightmare evidence is either completely untrue or not entirely the truth.


    If people should learn this intellectual fraud about Hitler's Germany, then they will begin to ask questions, and searching questions…”

    Murray Rothbard, Revisionism for Our Times, 1966. Note: This gentleman was also Jewish.
    http://mises.org/daily/2592

  32. DaveE says:

    Brilliant analysis, Mr. Shamir. This is the best I’ve read, although the reason why all the others suck so badly is no big mystery.

    Between Putin, Trump, Brexit and now THIS….. the Chosenites must be getting more than a little “noivous”. Better still, this is first time I can recall where “the elite” are being hauled off to jail, with people in the streets demanding public executions. No end in sight that I’m aware of, either.

    I hope a few Americans are smart enough to realize some great men are showing us the way. And yes, it won’t be bloodless, not by any means.

    Some things are worth fighting for, as the people of Byzantium just found out.

    Read More
    • Replies: @dahoit
    Never followed Trump,don't watch dumb TV,but I must say that he is one smart cookie,and his election will make him an American great,as he will return our sovereignty from Zion.
    And yes,Zion is in a tizzy,from Europe to America,lies and calumny as they fall all over themselves in demonizing Trump.
  33. Art says:

    Despite State Secretary Kerry’s denials, the pointers are to Washington and Tel Aviv, and perhaps to Brussels as well. Turkish top brass has long been known for its pro-NATO, pro-USA and pro-Israel sympathies.

    There is the real story – the Jews failed to break up another Muslim country.

    From day one – Israel’s goal was to break up Muslim countries, one by one into harmless small mini states.

    That was Turkey’s fate this time if the coup had been successful.

    The country can survive Erdogan – but not being broken apart like Syria and Iraq.

    Turkey is a middle class country – democracy can prevail.

    Read More
    • Replies: @DaveE
    Turkey has been Jewish-held territory for as long as it's been called Turkey-- but that's only about 100 years.

    I hope it doesn't take the Egyptians that long to reclaim their country.
  34. @Rurik
    Hey SP,

    Turkey and NATO are now splitsville!
     
    that just sounds too good to be true

    all of these articles are very interesting and these events seem tantalizing, especially the part about Obama and Merkel and the other Zio-quislings approving of the coup. Don't they know they're supposed to wait until it's successful before they give their blessings?!

    The part about Mr. Shamir's article that I had a problem with was this

    Whether Gülen had been hostile to Russia for his own reasons or followed CIA orders, he succeeded in causing enmity between Putin and Erdogan.
     
    Putin and Eddogan were already fighting a proxy war in Syria. So there was already enmity. Shooting down the Russian jet was simply escalating the already cold war into a warm war between the two states.

    Anyways, I certainly hope you're right about a split between NATO and Turkey. As an American who's appalled at the evil my government has been doing, anything that puts obstacles in the way of the fiends in control of Washington DC, can only be a very good thing.

    God speed to Putin and the good citizens of Turkey and Syria and all those who oppose the Fiend.

    Trump in 16!

    imo valorizing Erdogan is betting on the wrong horse. He killed his own soldiers (but then so did Stalin, and everyone thought that was heroic). His goal is to consolidate power and rule as an authoritarian.

    Several others have analyzed the situation in Turkey differently –

    Phil Giraldi had some interesting things to say about the coup – failed coup – hoax coup? – what’s Obama gonna do about the coup-do, http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/a-very-predictable-coup/

    Kimberly Kagan’s outfit, the Institute for the Study of War, had this to say: http://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/how-turkey-could-become-next-pakistan

    there’s the little matter of loose nukes at Incirlik.

    http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/the-h-bombs-in-turkey

    Pat Lang at SicSemperTyrannis and his Committee of Correspondence from all over the world, including on the ground in Turkey, have been watching the situation closely — especially those nukes –

    http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2016/07/erdogan-to-announce-tomorrow-major-policy-change-after-the-national-security-council-mgk-could-be-something-drastic-like.html

    http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2016/07/httpwwwunderstandingwarorgbackgrounderhow-turkey-could-become-next-pakistan.html

    Read More
    • Replies: @Seamus Padraig
    Kimberly Kagan is a neocon, so she is not merely 'predicting' what will happen in Turkey; she's giving us all a hint as to what US policy toward Turkey will be once the divorce is complete: they will seek to dismantle Turkey along ethnic lines. It's what the AngloZionists always do when you turn against them.
  35. Priss Factor [AKA "Anonymny"] says: • Website

    Homomaniacal Zionist Millman at American Conservative wants Hillary to totally crush Trump.

    http://www.theamericanconservative.com/millman/kirchicks-coup-fantasies

    These Zio-Globalists. Even as Millman attacks Kirchick, they are on the same page in their anti-Trump hatred. It is really a hatred against white gentile identity and interests.

    Kirchick projects his own sick demented Jewish-Homo Globalist supremacist warmongering on Trump. Of course, it is Trump who wants peace with Russia. It is Trump who wants a less interventionist policy around the world.

    In contrast, Kirchick and his ilk called for overthrow of the democratically elected government in Ukraine. They called for warmongering against Russia and endless provocations along Russian border. They called for sanctions. They called for more wars in Middle East that led to implosion of entire nations(once ruled by secular Arabs) and now overrun with Jihadis.
    Neocon and Zio-Lib warmongering led to all this mess.
    But Jew-Homo Kirchick takes no responsibility. He wants Russia to be totally destroyed cuz it is a model of how a national leader may take some measures to represent national power and honor.
    Kirchick wants a new cold war with Russia, even a hot war to teach a lesson to the world that unity of white gentile leadership and white gentile masses will not be allowed or forgiven.

    Kirchick is only for oligarchic-democracy ruled by Jewish-Homo globalists. When democratic process produces nationalist governments in Hungary and Poland, the likes of Kirchick(and Millman) seethe and bitch like a**holes.

    The real reason why Kirchick hates Trump is because Trump wants more peace in the world, especially with nations like Russia that Jews hate, hate, and hate. Since peace sounds better than war, Kirchick wants to fool us that Trump is the warmonger when it is Shillary who is the crazed warmongering lunatic who is more than willing to destroy Russia at the behest of Jewish and Homo supremacists.

    But of course, neither Kirchick nor Millman has any problem with the unity of Jewish leadership and Jewish masses in Israel.

    These are snakes and weasels.

    American Conservative now prefers warmongering Hillary to Trump who would rather focus on American issues and leave most of the world alone.

    Of course, Trump could be lying. But if he does become a warmonger, it will only be because he is really a stooge of the Zionist globalists.

    Read More
    • Replies: @utu
    Jewish gay neocon James Kirchick:

    After advocating the death penalty for Chelsea (then Bradley) Manning on 30 July 2013 in the Daily News,[17] Kirchick was invited to appear on RT's live panel discussion awaiting Manning's sentencing on Wednesday, 21 August 2013. He accepted; however, once it was his turn to speak, Kirchick refused to discuss Manning's sentencing, instead choosing to protest the Russian LGBT propaganda law.[18] When asked by RT news editor Ivor Crotty if he was ready to have a conversation about Manning with the assembled panel, Kirchick retorted angrily: "RT has been Bradley Manning and Edward Snowden 24/7. I haven't seen anything on your network about the anti-gay laws that have been passed in Russia and the increasing climate of violence and hostility towards gay people".[19] Tweeting shortly after the segment, Kirchik claimed RT "just called taxi company that took me to studio to drop me off on the side of the highway on way to Stockholm airport".[20]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Kirchick

    What a POS!
    , @dahoit
    If Trump is lying,which I highly doubt,the pushback from voters will be immense,and he will not win a second term,and his legacy will be like that of Obomba,one of complete betrayal of his voters.
    We aren't going to take it anymore,and there will be riots in the streets,but the complexion will be different,though,and it will be a sign of freedom,not divide and conquer,as the riots vs Trump surely were.
    Notice the lack of protesters in Cleveland?They knew it would help Trump,so the HB and Moveon.org,called off their dogs,only BS few remaining supporters didn't get the message.
    Those rioters sure helped kill Sanders,right Hillaryous?
  36. Priss Factor [AKA "Anonymny"] says: • Website
    @Wally
    Hitler?

    see:
    http://www.veteranstoday.com/2016/07/06/astronomer-and-science-historian-nicholas-kollerstrom-challenges-the-holocaust-industry/

    "I reckon they, i.e. people in the Holocaust establishment, believe that truth is what they want to believe.[16] They will always endeavor to undermine historical-factual debate about What Really Happened with claims about alleged emotions, of love or hate, such as: ‘You are just an anti-Semite’, or ‘You really hate …’ Whatever.[17] Or they will claim to be hurt."

    https://youtu.be/tCvblLcz0-E

    Holocaust(and other tragedies of WWII) were so horrible that they needed no exaggeration.

    But unfortunately, some Jews did cook things up to make Holocaust even worse.
    There was no need for this since it was horrible beyond imagining.

    I grew up with stories of soaps, lamp shades, and etc, all of which I believed.
    It made Nazi seem even more sinister.

    It’s like you don’t have to add Godzilla to Hiroshima to make it seem horrible. Even if the bomb didn’t unleash Godzilla, it was horrible enough.

    Because there were so many lies and hoaxes added to make Holocaust seem even worse, the deniers point to such and say the WHOLE thing was a hoax.
    That’s throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

    Among legit historians, recent studies show that the number of Jews killed in gas chambers was greatly exaggerated. Much of the killing happened with gunshots to the head in the battle fields.

    But I grew up thinking most Jews were killed in shower rooms by gas. It’s become such a fixture of the Holocaust narrative that it messes up the discourse.

    Whenever someone says that death-by-gassing was exaggerated, Jews scream and call him a Holocaust denier.
    But then, there are deniers who use such exaggerations and falsehoods to say there never was a Holocaust at all.
    They are like Japanese far-right nuts who claim that, just because some accounts of Nanking massacre were false, the whole thing must be a farce.

    Surely, there is a sane ground, but the issue has been too politicized.

    I think there is a way to counter the Holocaust Industry(filled with slimeballs like Abe Foxman) without denying the industrial death machine that was the Holocaust.

    Also, the term ‘holocaust survivor’ has to be revised. For the longest time, I thought a holocaust survivor was someone who experienced the camps and full brutality of the Nazi machine. I would call them survivors.

    But the term includes just about any Jew who happened to live in zones of Nazi occupation. Sure, all faced hardships, but many didn’t come face to face with near-death. In France, 1/4 of the Jewish population got shipped to the camps. If any survived, I would call them holocaust survivors.
    But under current use of term, just about any Jew who lived in Nazi area of occupation was a ‘holocaust survivor’. That is nuts.

    Read More
    • Replies: @utu
    It's sad to see that The American Conservative became another neocon megaphone. In its beginnings with Taki and Buchanan it was a decent paleoconservative with mild isolationist and anti-war message. But money talks. All media outlets that do not carry Zionist, neoconservative and neoliberal line are taken over.
    , @Anonymous
    That astronomer is right, and a brave person, as is Finkelstein, Shamir, and others (the number is growing. The Jewish hegemonists' censoring efforts grow accordingly.)

    I am no historian, and have no specific interest in the h("H", want the supremacists)olocaust. Thus I have not read on the topic.

    But do we need to read on the topic, to be sure of some facts, facts that are invariable along history?

    Recent history is the narrative and myths the victors need to consolidate their power, widen it.
    That they themselves struggle to believe their mythical self-serving narrative agrees with the fundamental traits of human psychology: every human and every human collective mind work that way.

    Is it noble? No.
    But what evolutionary psychological and cultural strategy is noble?
    They aren't noble, they are ignoble in fact; yet they are needed, I am afraid?

    There is only one group of people today that has given up evolutionary psychologic, social and cultural ignobility, and it's "White people" except for the Russian and in part Eastern Europe.

    What's the outcome?
    The outcome is, they are assailed, bullied, and accused by their assailants and those bullying them of doing what those in actual facts are doing.
    Projection, another fundamental trait of human psyche.

    My hate for you becomes my shouting that you hate me: check the SOuthern Poverty Law Center.
    Browse twitter for some day, and notice how many Jews spew anti-white hate-brimming racism.
    Who are these people? Are they all Jews?
    No. It's those of them who need somebody to hate.

    Just like, as long as Western whites were alive, they had they threw their physiological hatred on Jews, and others.

    Hate is a part of humans, and collectives.
    What can change is... the target.

    Jews that need to release their hatred have made their choice, and it's unmistakable: their vent is anti-white, anti-European, and sometimes anti-Christian hate, usually hate speech.

    For people afflicted by inferiority complexes (these, more or less well grounded), like Africans, Afro-Americans, Indians, envy does the trick and makes the choice: it's Whites again.

    And what about Whites? Of course they need to hate someone too, they're humans.
    They have turned to hating themselves.
    This implies a lack of will to defend from the hate of others.
    Which leads to the exponential growth of anti-white racism, in all contexts and flavours.

    Today, you find it in spades on the front pages of the NYT and WaPo. Just everywhere else.

    Every, EVERY group that would lose their will to defend themselves would find themselves in such a situation.
    You become the best choice as a vent and an object of hate, for every other group. It's darwinian; plain.

    Back to one of the holocausts of the 20th century, now.
    One day enough time will have passed, and the grasp of Jewish supremacists ("Zionists") on ALL the levers of power in the West will have loosened enough, for truth about it to start to be said.

    And then?
    There will be other myths, and other falsities, on other historical, and not only historical, facts. Mirroring the present power distribution.
    It's all humans, it's not a Jewish specific.
    Thus, I don't care much.

    I mean, we have about 35-50% of under-30 people in the USA who believe nobody in Madagascar has composed music like Beethoven's because the the grandad of my grandad's grandad "oppressed them".
    :)

    Conversely, what annoys me is Jewish supremacism, that's getting more and more unrestrained.
    Power, when it is given no limits by reality, leads to addiction, and insanity.

    You can check Chemi Shalev's writing on Haaretz. Or other 1000, maybe other 10000 names I could give as an example. Do you see any trace of mental soundness?

    These people should be, in the interest of both the people they subjugate and harass and of themselves, imposed a limit on their habit of dominance.

    White elites are worsening the problem substantially by bowing to their new masters.
    These masters come to the point that they'll charge you with Nazism if you cough or sneeze in a way that the ADL doesn't approve (= doesn't feel suitable to their interests).

    There are Facebook pages where some of the less smart of them openly boast about the USA being a vassal state of Israel.
    I mean, you can't even be a candidate to elections without kissing their soles (AIPAC, Netanyahu, and all the rest), and doing so in public.

    It's what Whites did with the local authorities of their colonies, I believe.

    A sincere man, Disraeli, said ""The difference of race is one of the reasons why I fear war may always exist; because race implies difference, difference implies superiority, and superiority leads to predominance."

    He was a sincere Jewish supremacist, like there used to be plenty before they collided with Aryan supremacists, and realized feelings of superiority are better left unsaid, or expressed indirectly.

    What's bitter is, I beliebe he was right.
    Neither equality nor peace will ever be achieved by the human kind.
    , @Jacques Sheete
    Most of the deaths in the German camps were no doubt largely due to the Brit starvation blockade of Germany.

    Hitler, contrary to the standard crapola, wanted Jews out of Germany ( not necessary to kill 'em all) and so did Zionists. (Note that Lincoln felt similarly with regard to blacks.)
    They wanted people to populate Palestine and so the stories were not only exaggerated, but Zionists and Nazis collaborated to get Jews to migrate from Germany. One financier of the Nazis was George Kareski a banker and politician in Berlin who colluded with the Gestapo, and also a board member of the Jewish Community in Berlin and was one of the founders of the ” Jewish People’s Party “

    He supported the Nuremberg Laws and in a 1935 press conference with Joseph Goebbels said, ” … The Nuremberg Laws also meet old Zionist demands “.

    He advocated segregation between Jews and non-Jews , and the identification of the Jews by wearing a yellow star of David and supported the emigration of Jews from Germany as a solution of the “Jewish question. ”

    I have no proof, but I highly suspect that Hitler became the designated enemy of Britain and France partly because he was developing relationships with Zionists in the oil rich Middle East. Plus, the Brits would never stand to see Germany and the USSR cooperating in any way.

    WW2 was not only unnecessary (as Churchill said), but was largely a war for resources particularly oil lands. That was as true for the Brits and Germany as it was for Japan.

    , @Seamus Padraig

    Whenever someone says that death-by-gassing was exaggerated, Jews scream and call him a Holocaust denier.
     
    Actually, in some European countries, merely questioning the 'official' 6 million figure or downplaying the use of poison gass is, in itself, illegal. These are now articles of faith in the new religion of Holocaustianity. To question these beliefs is heresy, and will get you hauled before the Inquisition!
    , @dahoit
    I have never heard or read anyone say that Hitler put his political enemies in CCs and many many died from the ravages of camp treatment,disease and starvation,which the German people themselves suffered.
    I can't believe a word from serial liars though,and gassing millions of people has so many holes that a 747 could fly through.
    The rumor mill in a camp or prison means the inmates know the score before the authorities can implement it,and mass gassing must have been known to the inmates ,so why would they line up like robots for slaughter?Total horseshit,yeah its possible some were gassed,we used it in California as a humane way of execution,but the mass tale is just another story for Zion and Israel,another serial lie in a wall of them,as only lies could have brought about the creation of that state.
  37. DaveE says:
    @Art

    Despite State Secretary Kerry’s denials, the pointers are to Washington and Tel Aviv, and perhaps to Brussels as well. Turkish top brass has long been known for its pro-NATO, pro-USA and pro-Israel sympathies.
     
    There is the real story - the Jews failed to break up another Muslim country.

    From day one - Israel's goal was to break up Muslim countries, one by one into harmless small mini states.

    That was Turkey's fate this time if the coup had been successful.

    The country can survive Erdogan - but not being broken apart like Syria and Iraq.

    Turkey is a middle class country - democracy can prevail.

    Turkey has been Jewish-held territory for as long as it’s been called Turkey– but that’s only about 100 years.

    I hope it doesn’t take the Egyptians that long to reclaim their country.

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  38. Rehmat says:
    @Talha
    Salaam Rehmat,

    At the risk of getting a more insulting response from you...


    Nyeth Moshe
     
    Your obsession with seeing anyone who does not agree with you as being Jewish needs help. And I mean that in the most sincere way.

    Your source DAWN is owned and run by a rich secularist families
     
    Sure, which papers in Pakistan aren't run by the secular elite? Maybe you know of some run by a conglomeration of Balochi villagers? Are you saying the story is false?

    Pakistan’s Constitution is not based on Islamic Shari’ah but more on British colonial traditions.
     
    Agreed, but that's why top-level muftis like the Usmanis are involved in the restructuring of the laws since it was started under Gen. Zia (ra).

    Who hate Pakistan?
     
    Lots of people - what does this have to do with anything?

    Peace.

    You’re more dumb than I thought.

    Who hate Pakistan more than Zionist Jews and extremist Hindus?

    Were Usmanis ever became prime minister, president or C-in-C of Pakistan?

    Gen. Zia-ul-Haq was very close to Jewish Saudi ‘royals’, and pro-Israel Qadiani leaders.

    So, if DAWN is run by anti-Islam secular group – all Pakistani news and TV media is owned by secularist just like the western media and TV is run by Zionist Jews – What an excuse to cover your stupidity!!

    Are to a disciple of Salman Rushde?

    Pulitzer Prize-winning Jew York Times journalist Carlotta Gall in her new book, ‘The Wrong Enemy: America in Afghanistan’ has claimed the US has been waging a war against a wrong enemy for the last thirteen years. She claims the real enemy is Pakistan and not Afghanistan.

    The Jewish Lobby has been calling Washington to attack Pakistan since early 1950s – decades before Pakistan became the sole nuclear power among 57 Muslim majority states.

    Bruce Riedel, former CIA official and currently employed by US-Israel citizen, billionaire Haim Saban at the Brookings Institute, wrote at Jewish Tablet magazine (June 27, 2011): “We need a military presence in Afghanistan so we continue to send drones and commandos over the Pakistani border. We don’t need 100,000 troops in Afghanistan, but we do Afghan permission to operate in that country for the long term. That is the other hard lesson Abbottabad.” Riedel was referring to the assassination of Osama bin Laden in Abbottabad (Pakistan) which has long been proved to be a hoax.

    Selig S. Harrison, south-Asian expert at Jewish-funded Center for International Policy (CIP), in 2011 article, entitled ‘Free Balochistan’, called Washington to provide funds and military aid to anti-Islamabad rebels who wants to establish a pro-Israel Eretz Balochistan over Pakistan-Iran territory.

    “Pakistan has given China a base at Gwadar in the heart of Baloch territory. So an independent Balochistan would serve US strategic interests (against Iran and China) in addition to countering (anti-Israel) Islamist forces,” said Harrison. The Zionist moron ignores the fact that the entire Gwadar Port project was funded and built by Chinese companies. Islamabad has leased the operation of Gwadar Port to China for the next 25 years to recover its investment.

    https://rehmat1.com/2014/04/27/jewish-author-pakistan-is-the-us-enemy/

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    • Replies: @Talha

    You’re more dumb than I thought.
     
    My wife feels this way about me sometimes too, buyer's remorse.

    Were Usmanis ever became prime minister, president or C-in-C of Pakistan?
     
    They're Sunni ulema, why would they want those positions - this is not Vilayet-e-Faqih.

    So, if DAWN is run by anti-Islam secular group
     
    Fine...still doesn't answer my question; are you claiming the story is false? There is no female judge appointed to the highest Appellate Shariat bench?

    Are to a disciple of Salman Rushde?
     
    No, the guy's work on Islam is deplorable.

    The Jewish Lobby has been calling Washington to attack Pakistan since early 1950s
     
    I'm sure many members of AIPAC would drink a toast to Pakistan being destroyed or torn apart - no arguments there. But what difference does it make; if the US or anybody wants to invade Pakistan, I'd like to remind them about the dreams of a 'cakewalk' that were dashed in Afghanistan and Iraq.

    Peace.

    , @anonymous
    Rehamat ,
    How about JFR Jacob ?? How about these facts ??
    JFR Jacob the jewish General in the Indian army who forced the surrender of Pakistan in the Bangladesh war. 90,000 Pakistani mujehadeen islamic soldiers surrendering to a Jew , in the Indian army , despite outnumbering them 6 to 1 . LoL . Imagine a Jew as a general in the Indian army , forcing the surrender of the great Islamic Mujehadeen of Pakistan . LoL. History is better than fiction .

    JFR Jacob a true hero to Hindus , Jews , and all civilized people .
  39. utu says:
    @Priss Factor
    Holocaust(and other tragedies of WWII) were so horrible that they needed no exaggeration.

    But unfortunately, some Jews did cook things up to make Holocaust even worse.
    There was no need for this since it was horrible beyond imagining.

    I grew up with stories of soaps, lamp shades, and etc, all of which I believed.
    It made Nazi seem even more sinister.

    It's like you don't have to add Godzilla to Hiroshima to make it seem horrible. Even if the bomb didn't unleash Godzilla, it was horrible enough.

    Because there were so many lies and hoaxes added to make Holocaust seem even worse, the deniers point to such and say the WHOLE thing was a hoax.
    That's throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

    Among legit historians, recent studies show that the number of Jews killed in gas chambers was greatly exaggerated. Much of the killing happened with gunshots to the head in the battle fields.

    But I grew up thinking most Jews were killed in shower rooms by gas. It's become such a fixture of the Holocaust narrative that it messes up the discourse.

    Whenever someone says that death-by-gassing was exaggerated, Jews scream and call him a Holocaust denier.
    But then, there are deniers who use such exaggerations and falsehoods to say there never was a Holocaust at all.
    They are like Japanese far-right nuts who claim that, just because some accounts of Nanking massacre were false, the whole thing must be a farce.

    Surely, there is a sane ground, but the issue has been too politicized.

    I think there is a way to counter the Holocaust Industry(filled with slimeballs like Abe Foxman) without denying the industrial death machine that was the Holocaust.

    Also, the term 'holocaust survivor' has to be revised. For the longest time, I thought a holocaust survivor was someone who experienced the camps and full brutality of the Nazi machine. I would call them survivors.

    But the term includes just about any Jew who happened to live in zones of Nazi occupation. Sure, all faced hardships, but many didn't come face to face with near-death. In France, 1/4 of the Jewish population got shipped to the camps. If any survived, I would call them holocaust survivors.
    But under current use of term, just about any Jew who lived in Nazi area of occupation was a 'holocaust survivor'. That is nuts.

    It’s sad to see that The American Conservative became another neocon megaphone. In its beginnings with Taki and Buchanan it was a decent paleoconservative with mild isolationist and anti-war message. But money talks. All media outlets that do not carry Zionist, neoconservative and neoliberal line are taken over.

    Read More
  40. nickels says:

    With the extent of the purges it looks pretty much like an inside job, false flag attack.

    Read More
  41. This is a bit disappointing that the commentators overlooked the second part of my article. The Turkish events, dramatic as they were, served just an example for the Americans to prepare for the need to defend democracy. It will be difficult enough to bring Trump to the White House even if people will vote for him in droves.

    Read More
    • Replies: @utu
    "a bit disappointing that the commentators overlooked " - No. Some Jews like James Kirchick drew right inspiration from the coup in Turkey and began to advocate a coup to save America, presumably with her DEMOCRACY, from antisemitic (*) Trump. Anonymy, above, gave url of LA Times op-ed in is comment.

    Come on Mr. Shamir, you have been around long enough to realize that justice and democracy is not coming soon to America or anywhere else.

    (*) Here is Kirchick's hatched job on Trump's son in-law Jewish criminal family.
    http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/207559/jared-kushner-shanda
    , @Regnum Nostrum
    Most commentators on this forum read just the first few sentences because it is so tiresome to read the whole thing. Besides there is no need to. They have an instant and in their fast food mentality absolutely correct opinion on everything no matter how complicated the subject. Most commentators here are as bright as a burnt out light bulb. No matter what the subject of the article they always end up discussing Hitler or Stalin, promoting their pet projects, their personal hates and such. Do not expect these clowns to defend democracy or anything else beside their smart phones. Without them they would be lost even more than they are now.
    , @SolontoCroesus
    The tragedy is, dear Mr. Shamir, that Trump, too, is a tool of the same machine that is behind Clinton.

    Have you seen the Republican plank on Israel-Palestine? Have you heard the great messiah Trump's Republican party declare,

    "We reject the false notion that Israel is an occupier, and specifically recognize that the Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions Movement ("BDS") is anti-Semitic in nature and seeks to destroy Israel,"
     
    and

    "Support for Israel is an “expression of Americanism.”
     
    Failure or resistance to supporting Israel has been deemed anti-semitic.
    Now, it's also anti-American.

    How can it be anti-American to seek to advance the interests of one's own nation in preference to those of another nation, but "an expression of Americanism" to support interests that harm American interests?

    No, Trump is not the answer.

    And a comparison of Erdogan vis a vis the Turkish people's actions to "defend democracy" to those that the American people must take, fails on almost every level.

    A genuine military coup in the United States might be the key to Rebecca.
    , @Astuteobservor II
    I don't believe in trump either :( the illusion was dispelled when he went to lick ass at aipac just like any other politician.

    I truly believe democracy is just an illusion pacifying the masses.
    , @DaveE
    "One man with courage makes a majority." ---- Andrew Jackson

    Let's hope we're at least in the double-digits.
    , @krollchem
    From what I can tell Erdogan is trying to run Turkey as a family business along with his son and son-in-law (among other family members). He was elected via a flawed election after demonizing the Kurdish party and murdering many Kurds in order to elicit a response that would cause Sunni Turks to vote for him out of fear. His dream is to recreate the Ottoman Empire of all so called Turkic peoples. A dream that will fail for many reasons beyond the scope of this comment.

    Russia is not fooled by his apology, but is interested in a greater game of Eurasian integration and ultimately greater trade links with Western Europe. Russia gains by:
    (1) resumption of talks on building the Turkstream gas pipeline to generate cash and bypass Ukraine;
    (2) construction of Russian nuclear energy projects in Turkey;
    (3) suppressing Qatar gas imports into Turkey that also allows Iran to get their fair share of the South Pars gas field;
    (4) An agreement that Turkey will no longer seek to create problems in Crimea and Syria;
    (5) Turkish buy-in on the Azeri-Armenia conflict;
    (6) further erosion of the control of Europe by the deep state globalists from the European Commission among many others. Putin will soon be able to breakout the popcorn and watch the EU circus collapse into at least four grouping of states.

    My take is that Turkish people took to the street to prevent a US CIA backed military coup. Erdogan appears to be dismantling Fethullah Gülen's CIA backed network and the George Soros Open Society web of connections. Both groups are as power hungry as Erdogan.

    In watching the street manifestations I was struck by posters that read Millet=yes and USA=no. Optimistically a Mullet legal system is the best one can hope for at this stage of Turkey's development:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millet_(Ottoman_Empire)

    Oddly, the Millet concept is similar to that in Egypt following the excesses of the Muslim Brotherhood against the Coptic faith.

    As for the US elections, and the prospect of Killery as the President, the Electoral College ensures that only 6-8 battleground states matter. My State will vote for Hillery so I am free to vote for Gary Johnson, as I see both main political (mafia) parties a two heads of the same bird of prey.

    Lets hope that Hillery doesn't get control of the nuclear suitcase!

  42. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Priss Factor
    Holocaust(and other tragedies of WWII) were so horrible that they needed no exaggeration.

    But unfortunately, some Jews did cook things up to make Holocaust even worse.
    There was no need for this since it was horrible beyond imagining.

    I grew up with stories of soaps, lamp shades, and etc, all of which I believed.
    It made Nazi seem even more sinister.

    It's like you don't have to add Godzilla to Hiroshima to make it seem horrible. Even if the bomb didn't unleash Godzilla, it was horrible enough.

    Because there were so many lies and hoaxes added to make Holocaust seem even worse, the deniers point to such and say the WHOLE thing was a hoax.
    That's throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

    Among legit historians, recent studies show that the number of Jews killed in gas chambers was greatly exaggerated. Much of the killing happened with gunshots to the head in the battle fields.

    But I grew up thinking most Jews were killed in shower rooms by gas. It's become such a fixture of the Holocaust narrative that it messes up the discourse.

    Whenever someone says that death-by-gassing was exaggerated, Jews scream and call him a Holocaust denier.
    But then, there are deniers who use such exaggerations and falsehoods to say there never was a Holocaust at all.
    They are like Japanese far-right nuts who claim that, just because some accounts of Nanking massacre were false, the whole thing must be a farce.

    Surely, there is a sane ground, but the issue has been too politicized.

    I think there is a way to counter the Holocaust Industry(filled with slimeballs like Abe Foxman) without denying the industrial death machine that was the Holocaust.

    Also, the term 'holocaust survivor' has to be revised. For the longest time, I thought a holocaust survivor was someone who experienced the camps and full brutality of the Nazi machine. I would call them survivors.

    But the term includes just about any Jew who happened to live in zones of Nazi occupation. Sure, all faced hardships, but many didn't come face to face with near-death. In France, 1/4 of the Jewish population got shipped to the camps. If any survived, I would call them holocaust survivors.
    But under current use of term, just about any Jew who lived in Nazi area of occupation was a 'holocaust survivor'. That is nuts.

    That astronomer is right, and a brave person, as is Finkelstein, Shamir, and others (the number is growing. The Jewish hegemonists’ censoring efforts grow accordingly.)

    I am no historian, and have no specific interest in the h(“H”, want the supremacists)olocaust. Thus I have not read on the topic.

    But do we need to read on the topic, to be sure of some facts, facts that are invariable along history?

    Recent history is the narrative and myths the victors need to consolidate their power, widen it.
    That they themselves struggle to believe their mythical self-serving narrative agrees with the fundamental traits of human psychology: every human and every human collective mind work that way.

    Is it noble? No.
    But what evolutionary psychological and cultural strategy is noble?
    They aren’t noble, they are ignoble in fact; yet they are needed, I am afraid?

    There is only one group of people today that has given up evolutionary psychologic, social and cultural ignobility, and it’s “White people” except for the Russian and in part Eastern Europe.

    What’s the outcome?
    The outcome is, they are assailed, bullied, and accused by their assailants and those bullying them of doing what those in actual facts are doing.
    Projection, another fundamental trait of human psyche.

    [MORE]

    My hate for you becomes my shouting that you hate me: check the SOuthern Poverty Law Center.
    Browse twitter for some day, and notice how many Jews spew anti-white hate-brimming racism.
    Who are these people? Are they all Jews?
    No. It’s those of them who need somebody to hate.

    Just like, as long as Western whites were alive, they had they threw their physiological hatred on Jews, and others.

    Hate is a part of humans, and collectives.
    What can change is… the target.

    Jews that need to release their hatred have made their choice, and it’s unmistakable: their vent is anti-white, anti-European, and sometimes anti-Christian hate, usually hate speech.

    For people afflicted by inferiority complexes (these, more or less well grounded), like Africans, Afro-Americans, Indians, envy does the trick and makes the choice: it’s Whites again.

    And what about Whites? Of course they need to hate someone too, they’re humans.
    They have turned to hating themselves.
    This implies a lack of will to defend from the hate of others.
    Which leads to the exponential growth of anti-white racism, in all contexts and flavours.

    Today, you find it in spades on the front pages of the NYT and WaPo. Just everywhere else.

    Every, EVERY group that would lose their will to defend themselves would find themselves in such a situation.
    You become the best choice as a vent and an object of hate, for every other group. It’s darwinian; plain.

    Back to one of the holocausts of the 20th century, now.
    One day enough time will have passed, and the grasp of Jewish supremacists (“Zionists”) on ALL the levers of power in the West will have loosened enough, for truth about it to start to be said.

    And then?
    There will be other myths, and other falsities, on other historical, and not only historical, facts. Mirroring the present power distribution.
    It’s all humans, it’s not a Jewish specific.
    Thus, I don’t care much.

    I mean, we have about 35-50% of under-30 people in the USA who believe nobody in Madagascar has composed music like Beethoven’s because the the grandad of my grandad’s grandad “oppressed them”.
    :)

    Conversely, what annoys me is Jewish supremacism, that’s getting more and more unrestrained.
    Power, when it is given no limits by reality, leads to addiction, and insanity.

    You can check Chemi Shalev’s writing on Haaretz. Or other 1000, maybe other 10000 names I could give as an example. Do you see any trace of mental soundness?

    These people should be, in the interest of both the people they subjugate and harass and of themselves, imposed a limit on their habit of dominance.

    White elites are worsening the problem substantially by bowing to their new masters.
    These masters come to the point that they’ll charge you with Nazism if you cough or sneeze in a way that the ADL doesn’t approve (= doesn’t feel suitable to their interests).

    There are Facebook pages where some of the less smart of them openly boast about the USA being a vassal state of Israel.
    I mean, you can’t even be a candidate to elections without kissing their soles (AIPAC, Netanyahu, and all the rest), and doing so in public.

    It’s what Whites did with the local authorities of their colonies, I believe.

    A sincere man, Disraeli, said “”The difference of race is one of the reasons why I fear war may always exist; because race implies difference, difference implies superiority, and superiority leads to predominance.”

    He was a sincere Jewish supremacist, like there used to be plenty before they collided with Aryan supremacists, and realized feelings of superiority are better left unsaid, or expressed indirectly.

    What’s bitter is, I beliebe he was right.
    Neither equality nor peace will ever be achieved by the human kind.

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  43. @Wally
    Hitler?

    see:
    http://www.veteranstoday.com/2016/07/06/astronomer-and-science-historian-nicholas-kollerstrom-challenges-the-holocaust-industry/

    "I reckon they, i.e. people in the Holocaust establishment, believe that truth is what they want to believe.[16] They will always endeavor to undermine historical-factual debate about What Really Happened with claims about alleged emotions, of love or hate, such as: ‘You are just an anti-Semite’, or ‘You really hate …’ Whatever.[17] Or they will claim to be hurt."

    https://youtu.be/tCvblLcz0-E

    I agree with you.

    Totally hilarious how some people believe 75 year old propaganda regarding Hitler. I guess brainwashing works. Probably a waste of time answering it.

    Anyway…

    “The least of the lessons that revisionism can teach has already been thoroughly learned ( ed: by a select few): that Germany and Japan are not uniquely “aggressor nations,” doomed from birth to menace the peace of the world. The larger lessons have, unfortunately, yet to be learned.

    Now revisionism teaches us that this entire myth, so prevalent then and even now about Hitler, and about the Japanese, is a tissue of fallacies from beginning to end. Every plank in this nightmare evidence is either completely untrue or not entirely the truth.

    If people should learn this intellectual fraud about Hitler’s Germany, then they will begin to ask questions, and searching questions…”

    Murray Rothbard, Revisionism for Our Times, 1966. Note: This gentleman was also Jewish.

    http://mises.org/daily/2592

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    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    I had always thought Murray Rothbard might be someone of intellect to be respected but you have cited a piece in which he goes from pompous and sententious to plain barmy. How about Britain and the UK joining in WW1 to help Russia take over parts of Eastern Europe ruled by Austria and Germany. Be careful; you may be judged by the company you recommend.
  44. @Priss Factor
    Holocaust(and other tragedies of WWII) were so horrible that they needed no exaggeration.

    But unfortunately, some Jews did cook things up to make Holocaust even worse.
    There was no need for this since it was horrible beyond imagining.

    I grew up with stories of soaps, lamp shades, and etc, all of which I believed.
    It made Nazi seem even more sinister.

    It's like you don't have to add Godzilla to Hiroshima to make it seem horrible. Even if the bomb didn't unleash Godzilla, it was horrible enough.

    Because there were so many lies and hoaxes added to make Holocaust seem even worse, the deniers point to such and say the WHOLE thing was a hoax.
    That's throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

    Among legit historians, recent studies show that the number of Jews killed in gas chambers was greatly exaggerated. Much of the killing happened with gunshots to the head in the battle fields.

    But I grew up thinking most Jews were killed in shower rooms by gas. It's become such a fixture of the Holocaust narrative that it messes up the discourse.

    Whenever someone says that death-by-gassing was exaggerated, Jews scream and call him a Holocaust denier.
    But then, there are deniers who use such exaggerations and falsehoods to say there never was a Holocaust at all.
    They are like Japanese far-right nuts who claim that, just because some accounts of Nanking massacre were false, the whole thing must be a farce.

    Surely, there is a sane ground, but the issue has been too politicized.

    I think there is a way to counter the Holocaust Industry(filled with slimeballs like Abe Foxman) without denying the industrial death machine that was the Holocaust.

    Also, the term 'holocaust survivor' has to be revised. For the longest time, I thought a holocaust survivor was someone who experienced the camps and full brutality of the Nazi machine. I would call them survivors.

    But the term includes just about any Jew who happened to live in zones of Nazi occupation. Sure, all faced hardships, but many didn't come face to face with near-death. In France, 1/4 of the Jewish population got shipped to the camps. If any survived, I would call them holocaust survivors.
    But under current use of term, just about any Jew who lived in Nazi area of occupation was a 'holocaust survivor'. That is nuts.

    Most of the deaths in the German camps were no doubt largely due to the Brit starvation blockade of Germany.

    Hitler, contrary to the standard crapola, wanted Jews out of Germany ( not necessary to kill ‘em all) and so did Zionists. (Note that Lincoln felt similarly with regard to blacks.)
    They wanted people to populate Palestine and so the stories were not only exaggerated, but Zionists and Nazis collaborated to get Jews to migrate from Germany. One financier of the Nazis was George Kareski a banker and politician in Berlin who colluded with the Gestapo, and also a board member of the Jewish Community in Berlin and was one of the founders of the ” Jewish People’s Party “

    He supported the Nuremberg Laws and in a 1935 press conference with Joseph Goebbels said, ” … The Nuremberg Laws also meet old Zionist demands “.

    He advocated segregation between Jews and non-Jews , and the identification of the Jews by wearing a yellow star of David and supported the emigration of Jews from Germany as a solution of the “Jewish question. ”

    I have no proof, but I highly suspect that Hitler became the designated enemy of Britain and France partly because he was developing relationships with Zionists in the oil rich Middle East. Plus, the Brits would never stand to see Germany and the USSR cooperating in any way.

    WW2 was not only unnecessary (as Churchill said), but was largely a war for resources particularly oil lands. That was as true for the Brits and Germany as it was for Japan.

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  45. utu says:
    @Israel Shamir
    This is a bit disappointing that the commentators overlooked the second part of my article. The Turkish events, dramatic as they were, served just an example for the Americans to prepare for the need to defend democracy. It will be difficult enough to bring Trump to the White House even if people will vote for him in droves.

    “a bit disappointing that the commentators overlooked ” – No. Some Jews like James Kirchick drew right inspiration from the coup in Turkey and began to advocate a coup to save America, presumably with her DEMOCRACY, from antisemitic (*) Trump. Anonymy, above, gave url of LA Times op-ed in is comment.

    Come on Mr. Shamir, you have been around long enough to realize that justice and democracy is not coming soon to America or anywhere else.

    (*) Here is Kirchick’s hatched job on Trump’s son in-law Jewish criminal family.

    http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/207559/jared-kushner-shanda

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  46. utu says:
    @Priss Factor
    Homomaniacal Zionist Millman at American Conservative wants Hillary to totally crush Trump.

    http://www.theamericanconservative.com/millman/kirchicks-coup-fantasies

    These Zio-Globalists. Even as Millman attacks Kirchick, they are on the same page in their anti-Trump hatred. It is really a hatred against white gentile identity and interests.

    Kirchick projects his own sick demented Jewish-Homo Globalist supremacist warmongering on Trump. Of course, it is Trump who wants peace with Russia. It is Trump who wants a less interventionist policy around the world.

    In contrast, Kirchick and his ilk called for overthrow of the democratically elected government in Ukraine. They called for warmongering against Russia and endless provocations along Russian border. They called for sanctions. They called for more wars in Middle East that led to implosion of entire nations(once ruled by secular Arabs) and now overrun with Jihadis.
    Neocon and Zio-Lib warmongering led to all this mess.
    But Jew-Homo Kirchick takes no responsibility. He wants Russia to be totally destroyed cuz it is a model of how a national leader may take some measures to represent national power and honor.
    Kirchick wants a new cold war with Russia, even a hot war to teach a lesson to the world that unity of white gentile leadership and white gentile masses will not be allowed or forgiven.

    Kirchick is only for oligarchic-democracy ruled by Jewish-Homo globalists. When democratic process produces nationalist governments in Hungary and Poland, the likes of Kirchick(and Millman) seethe and bitch like a**holes.

    The real reason why Kirchick hates Trump is because Trump wants more peace in the world, especially with nations like Russia that Jews hate, hate, and hate. Since peace sounds better than war, Kirchick wants to fool us that Trump is the warmonger when it is Shillary who is the crazed warmongering lunatic who is more than willing to destroy Russia at the behest of Jewish and Homo supremacists.

    But of course, neither Kirchick nor Millman has any problem with the unity of Jewish leadership and Jewish masses in Israel.

    These are snakes and weasels.

    American Conservative now prefers warmongering Hillary to Trump who would rather focus on American issues and leave most of the world alone.

    Of course, Trump could be lying. But if he does become a warmonger, it will only be because he is really a stooge of the Zionist globalists.

    Jewish gay neocon James Kirchick:

    After advocating the death penalty for Chelsea (then Bradley) Manning on 30 July 2013 in the Daily News,[17] Kirchick was invited to appear on RT’s live panel discussion awaiting Manning’s sentencing on Wednesday, 21 August 2013. He accepted; however, once it was his turn to speak, Kirchick refused to discuss Manning’s sentencing, instead choosing to protest the Russian LGBT propaganda law.[18] When asked by RT news editor Ivor Crotty if he was ready to have a conversation about Manning with the assembled panel, Kirchick retorted angrily: “RT has been Bradley Manning and Edward Snowden 24/7. I haven’t seen anything on your network about the anti-gay laws that have been passed in Russia and the increasing climate of violence and hostility towards gay people”.[19] Tweeting shortly after the segment, Kirchik claimed RT “just called taxi company that took me to studio to drop me off on the side of the highway on way to Stockholm airport”.[20]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Kirchick

    What a POS!

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  47. @Israel Shamir
    This is a bit disappointing that the commentators overlooked the second part of my article. The Turkish events, dramatic as they were, served just an example for the Americans to prepare for the need to defend democracy. It will be difficult enough to bring Trump to the White House even if people will vote for him in droves.

    Most commentators on this forum read just the first few sentences because it is so tiresome to read the whole thing. Besides there is no need to. They have an instant and in their fast food mentality absolutely correct opinion on everything no matter how complicated the subject. Most commentators here are as bright as a burnt out light bulb. No matter what the subject of the article they always end up discussing Hitler or Stalin, promoting their pet projects, their personal hates and such. Do not expect these clowns to defend democracy or anything else beside their smart phones. Without them they would be lost even more than they are now.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anonymous
    thnk the gods your here to give the joint some class, Rectum Nostrum.
  48. Talha says:
    @Rehmat
    You're more dumb than I thought.

    Who hate Pakistan more than Zionist Jews and extremist Hindus?

    Were Usmanis ever became prime minister, president or C-in-C of Pakistan?

    Gen. Zia-ul-Haq was very close to Jewish Saudi 'royals', and pro-Israel Qadiani leaders.

    So, if DAWN is run by anti-Islam secular group - all Pakistani news and TV media is owned by secularist just like the western media and TV is run by Zionist Jews - What an excuse to cover your stupidity!!

    Are to a disciple of Salman Rushde?

    Pulitzer Prize-winning Jew York Times journalist Carlotta Gall in her new book, ‘The Wrong Enemy: America in Afghanistan’ has claimed the US has been waging a war against a wrong enemy for the last thirteen years. She claims the real enemy is Pakistan and not Afghanistan.

    The Jewish Lobby has been calling Washington to attack Pakistan since early 1950s – decades before Pakistan became the sole nuclear power among 57 Muslim majority states.

    Bruce Riedel, former CIA official and currently employed by US-Israel citizen, billionaire Haim Saban at the Brookings Institute, wrote at Jewish Tablet magazine (June 27, 2011): “We need a military presence in Afghanistan so we continue to send drones and commandos over the Pakistani border. We don’t need 100,000 troops in Afghanistan, but we do Afghan permission to operate in that country for the long term. That is the other hard lesson Abbottabad.” Riedel was referring to the assassination of Osama bin Laden in Abbottabad (Pakistan) which has long been proved to be a hoax.

    Selig S. Harrison, south-Asian expert at Jewish-funded Center for International Policy (CIP), in 2011 article, entitled ‘Free Balochistan’, called Washington to provide funds and military aid to anti-Islamabad rebels who wants to establish a pro-Israel Eretz Balochistan over Pakistan-Iran territory.

    “Pakistan has given China a base at Gwadar in the heart of Baloch territory. So an independent Balochistan would serve US strategic interests (against Iran and China) in addition to countering (anti-Israel) Islamist forces,” said Harrison. The Zionist moron ignores the fact that the entire Gwadar Port project was funded and built by Chinese companies. Islamabad has leased the operation of Gwadar Port to China for the next 25 years to recover its investment.

    https://rehmat1.com/2014/04/27/jewish-author-pakistan-is-the-us-enemy/

    You’re more dumb than I thought.

    My wife feels this way about me sometimes too, buyer’s remorse.

    Were Usmanis ever became prime minister, president or C-in-C of Pakistan?

    They’re Sunni ulema, why would they want those positions – this is not Vilayet-e-Faqih.

    So, if DAWN is run by anti-Islam secular group

    Fine…still doesn’t answer my question; are you claiming the story is false? There is no female judge appointed to the highest Appellate Shariat bench?

    Are to a disciple of Salman Rushde?

    No, the guy’s work on Islam is deplorable.

    The Jewish Lobby has been calling Washington to attack Pakistan since early 1950s

    I’m sure many members of AIPAC would drink a toast to Pakistan being destroyed or torn apart – no arguments there. But what difference does it make; if the US or anybody wants to invade Pakistan, I’d like to remind them about the dreams of a ‘cakewalk’ that were dashed in Afghanistan and Iraq.

    Peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Avery
    {You’re more dumb than I thought.}

    At least he does not think you are 'Moshe'.
    Must be some kind of honor.
    Maybe because you are a fellow Pakistani.

    , @RadicalCenter
    Better than invading Pakistan, just let the Indians know that we won't interfere if they want to finally eradicate their arch-enemy.
  49. @Israel Shamir
    This is a bit disappointing that the commentators overlooked the second part of my article. The Turkish events, dramatic as they were, served just an example for the Americans to prepare for the need to defend democracy. It will be difficult enough to bring Trump to the White House even if people will vote for him in droves.

    The tragedy is, dear Mr. Shamir, that Trump, too, is a tool of the same machine that is behind Clinton.

    Have you seen the Republican plank on Israel-Palestine? Have you heard the great messiah Trump’s Republican party declare,

    “We reject the false notion that Israel is an occupier, and specifically recognize that the Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions Movement (“BDS”) is anti-Semitic in nature and seeks to destroy Israel,”

    and

    “Support for Israel is an “expression of Americanism.”

    Failure or resistance to supporting Israel has been deemed anti-semitic.
    Now, it’s also anti-American.

    How can it be anti-American to seek to advance the interests of one’s own nation in preference to those of another nation, but “an expression of Americanism” to support interests that harm American interests?

    No, Trump is not the answer.

    And a comparison of Erdogan vis a vis the Turkish people’s actions to “defend democracy” to those that the American people must take, fails on almost every level.

    A genuine military coup in the United States might be the key to Rebecca.

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  50. anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Regnum Nostrum
    Most commentators on this forum read just the first few sentences because it is so tiresome to read the whole thing. Besides there is no need to. They have an instant and in their fast food mentality absolutely correct opinion on everything no matter how complicated the subject. Most commentators here are as bright as a burnt out light bulb. No matter what the subject of the article they always end up discussing Hitler or Stalin, promoting their pet projects, their personal hates and such. Do not expect these clowns to defend democracy or anything else beside their smart phones. Without them they would be lost even more than they are now.

    thnk the gods your here to give the joint some class, Rectum Nostrum.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Regnum Nostrum
    Thank you for corroborating my claim nameless coward.
  51. Avery says:
    @Talha

    You’re more dumb than I thought.
     
    My wife feels this way about me sometimes too, buyer's remorse.

    Were Usmanis ever became prime minister, president or C-in-C of Pakistan?
     
    They're Sunni ulema, why would they want those positions - this is not Vilayet-e-Faqih.

    So, if DAWN is run by anti-Islam secular group
     
    Fine...still doesn't answer my question; are you claiming the story is false? There is no female judge appointed to the highest Appellate Shariat bench?

    Are to a disciple of Salman Rushde?
     
    No, the guy's work on Islam is deplorable.

    The Jewish Lobby has been calling Washington to attack Pakistan since early 1950s
     
    I'm sure many members of AIPAC would drink a toast to Pakistan being destroyed or torn apart - no arguments there. But what difference does it make; if the US or anybody wants to invade Pakistan, I'd like to remind them about the dreams of a 'cakewalk' that were dashed in Afghanistan and Iraq.

    Peace.

    {You’re more dumb than I thought.}

    At least he does not think you are ‘Moshe’.
    Must be some kind of honor.
    Maybe because you are a fellow Pakistani.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey Avery, nope - look at his first response to me - I've been Moshe-fied. No one escapes...

    Peace.
  52. Talha says:
    @Avery
    {You’re more dumb than I thought.}

    At least he does not think you are 'Moshe'.
    Must be some kind of honor.
    Maybe because you are a fellow Pakistani.

    Hey Avery, nope – look at his first response to me – I’ve been Moshe-fied. No one escapes…

    Peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anonymous
    Tahla ,
    Do you believe Rehmat is truly a Muslim ?
    Moshe is used by him as an insult to Jews but clearly its insulting to Islam as well then , as they claim Moshe as a prophet as well , spelled Moussa in English from Arabic.
    , @Wizard of Oz
    Don't you think Rehmat is a syndicate operationunder the loose control of a Canadian Pakistani but allowing much too free a rein to students and other unemployed youth - probably in Pakistani universities - to whom much comment is outsourced. That would explain why some of it reads like irresponsible mischief and exageration and some like actual subversion of Rehmat through being outrageously stupid or fast and loose with facts.
  53. @Talha

    You’re more dumb than I thought.
     
    My wife feels this way about me sometimes too, buyer's remorse.

    Were Usmanis ever became prime minister, president or C-in-C of Pakistan?
     
    They're Sunni ulema, why would they want those positions - this is not Vilayet-e-Faqih.

    So, if DAWN is run by anti-Islam secular group
     
    Fine...still doesn't answer my question; are you claiming the story is false? There is no female judge appointed to the highest Appellate Shariat bench?

    Are to a disciple of Salman Rushde?
     
    No, the guy's work on Islam is deplorable.

    The Jewish Lobby has been calling Washington to attack Pakistan since early 1950s
     
    I'm sure many members of AIPAC would drink a toast to Pakistan being destroyed or torn apart - no arguments there. But what difference does it make; if the US or anybody wants to invade Pakistan, I'd like to remind them about the dreams of a 'cakewalk' that were dashed in Afghanistan and Iraq.

    Peace.

    Better than invading Pakistan, just let the Indians know that we won’t interfere if they want to finally eradicate their arch-enemy.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Avery
    {Better than invading Pakistan,......}

    Last time US took on an adversary that could put up a half-decent fight was WW2 Imperial Japan.
    After the ignominious Viet Nam defeat, American public has lost the appetite for losing anything close to 50,000 men in war. All the wars since then have been against countries that could not bite back.

    US has no reason to invade Pakistan.
    US had no reason to invade Iraq either, but Iraq had no nukes and its conventional army was no match. A nice little adventure for Neocon crazies to break and loot a defenseless country.
    The fact that ~4,500 GIs were killed is the "cost of doing business". They volunteered, didn't they?
    And Iraqi civilian deaths are of no concern to the likes of Evil Witch Albright.

    Pakistan leadership is owned by US, so why bother invading? What is there to loot?
    Also, Pakistan is a nation of 180 million, with a vary capable military.
    If Pakistan threatened the existence of US for some unfathomable reason - how could it? - then US would erase it from the face of the Earth. But it would not be by sending US ground troops to be ground-up on the Pakistani boondocks.


    {.... just let the Indians know that we won’t interfere if they want to finally eradicate their arch-enemy.}


    It will be near impossible for India to eradicate Pakistan by conventional means.
    So you are talking about a nuke war.
    The number of nukes needed to eradicate (murder) 180 million people means radioactive contamination spreading to the neighboring countries and beyond.
    And China is not going to stand by and allow India to do that.
  54. @Talha
    Hey SP,

    And Turkey, like Iran, will now become and Islamic Republic.
     
    It will likely become more like a more educated and less tribal version of (Islamic Repulic of) Pakistan where the military still holds significant power (and is known to have coup attempts) and the Muslim scholars are involved a judicial system that incorporates Shariah rulings (for instance, both nations are majority Hanafi which traditionally allows female judges - http://www.dawn.com/news/1077328). Hopefully it will be able to avoid the massive corruption and radicalization endemic in Pakistan.

    Peace.

    I would hope–for the sake of both Turkey and the middle east at large–that Erdogan will be able to produce something more functional than Pakistan. The Pakis remind me of that old joke about Prussia: ‘Not a kingdom that has an army, but rather an army that has a kingdom.’ At least Prussia was stable and well-run though.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey SP,

    Same hope here...sigh...truth hurts. But they still have great biryani and qawwali.

    Peace.
  55. @SolontoCroesus
    imo valorizing Erdogan is betting on the wrong horse. He killed his own soldiers (but then so did Stalin, and everyone thought that was heroic). His goal is to consolidate power and rule as an authoritarian.

    Several others have analyzed the situation in Turkey differently --

    Phil Giraldi had some interesting things to say about the coup - failed coup - hoax coup? - what's Obama gonna do about the coup-do, http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/a-very-predictable-coup/

    Kimberly Kagan's outfit, the Institute for the Study of War, had this to say: http://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/how-turkey-could-become-next-pakistan


    there's the little matter of loose nukes at Incirlik.
    http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/the-h-bombs-in-turkey


    Pat Lang at SicSemperTyrannis and his Committee of Correspondence from all over the world, including on the ground in Turkey, have been watching the situation closely -- especially those nukes --

    http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2016/07/erdogan-to-announce-tomorrow-major-policy-change-after-the-national-security-council-mgk-could-be-something-drastic-like.html

    http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2016/07/httpwwwunderstandingwarorgbackgrounderhow-turkey-could-become-next-pakistan.html

    Kimberly Kagan is a neocon, so she is not merely ‘predicting’ what will happen in Turkey; she’s giving us all a hint as to what US policy toward Turkey will be once the divorce is complete: they will seek to dismantle Turkey along ethnic lines. It’s what the AngloZionists always do when you turn against them.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Avery
    {they will seek to dismantle Turkey along ethnic lines. }

    God willing, they will succeeded.
    Not withstanding Turkophile shills like Shamiroğlu, the criminal, genocidal, Uyguroğlu invadonomad Turk IslamoFascist state has no right to exist.

    The Uyguroğlar savage nomad Turks are a foreign, unwelcome element in Asia Minor, who are squatting on Christian lands.
    The criminal Turk state must be dismantled.
  56. @Boris N
    I was just about to praise the author for his revealing the hypocrisy of the Russian state media but everything was ruined when I stumbled upon this:

    In Russia there are superior people, too. They wanted to get rid of Putin; they hated the church he attended; they wanted to open Russian resources to the foreign interests.
     
    I know nearly every dissenter in the West sooner or later becomes Putinist, and Mr. Shamir is no exception, but I couldn't help but comment.

    No, Mr Shamir. It is not the alleged Russian putschists (do you mean such as Mr Strelkov?) who want to get rid of Putin and thus of Russians' choice. It is Putin who has got rid of Russians. It does not matter if he goes to church if it is all for a show, pretending to be a good old pious tsar is just a part of his role playing. It is not putschists who want to sell out Russia to foreigners, it is Putin, a sincere follower of his godfather Yeltsin, who has sold out Russia in its entirety. There is no Russia, there is no state, but a colonial oil and gaz pump, a mine, just a territory controlled by transnational companies, while Russian officials, Putin included, are nothing more than appointed CEOs. Russia is best explained in the terms of some sort of a revived version of the East India Company (should it be called the Muscovy Company 2.0?)

    The Russian superior class is more candid; they can’t keep their mouth shut. They said that majority has no legitimacy, because they are not sufficiently educated, not wealthy enough, too parochial.
     
    It is a very dirty trick to restrict any Russian dissent to 1% Moscow Russia-hating hipsters, implying the remaining 99% are pro-Putin. But the reality is that a great swathe of the Russian population despise equally the Russia-hating hipsters and the Kremlin robbing clique. You see, being anti-Putin does not make you a Russia-hating hipster. The question about legitimacy is not about how many support Putin (really, not many), but how and why it has so happened that 90% of Russian wealth is owned by the Kremlin clique and their affiliates, while 90% of Russians own just 10% of Russian wealth. Or to put it straight: who do you think you are, Mr Putin and his oligarch friend, to own and rob my own country?

    Still, the Russian voters supported Putin in the booth and they supported him on the streets.
     
    Well, when you and your party control quite everything, especially the media, when you have enormous managerial resources (practically every Russian official and bureaucrat, from top to bottom, is a member of the United Russia or tamed pseudo-opposition parties, the good days of the one-party rule are here again), so it is not too hard to convince some tens of millions of voters (in 2012 Putin got officially 45M voters, hardly an ultimate majority in a 150M country), and in case the state propaganda machine fails to convince, there is always an option to make up the right results (here we got those 45M). You think Putin is a Russian Trump, but Putin is a Russian Deep State.

    This is nonsensical.

    There remain comprador elements within Russia, many of them significantly inherited from Yeltsinism (Chubais etc) but they have an order of magnitude less influence today than back then.

    In the end, a truly colonial state would have never reclaimed Crimea and would never have supported the LDNR.

    Read More
    • Agree: Seamus Padraig
    • Replies: @Boris N

    This is nonsensical.
     
    Nonsensical is to live for the past 20 years in your cozy house in a good white middle-class neighbourhood somewhere in cozy warm sunny California and to speak out loud how good the life in Russia is. Especially, if you have not lived in Russia since the early childhood and know about the country largely by watching RT and RTR Planeta and reading Rosstat's success reports. I haven't had a single doubt that it is easy to become a Putinust in such milky conditions. Especially, it is easy to say about a happy Russian life when your elder relatives and acquaintances are not trying to make two ends meet with their $200 pension, while your wage is hardly better. I know my country, I know my people, I see my people, but you, happy ignorant Americans, know nothing.

    There remain comprador elements within Russia, many of them significantly inherited from Yeltsinism (Chubais etc) but they have an order of magnitude less influence today than back then.
     
    Forget Chubais. It is ridiculous to always remember his name when speaking about compradors as if the only problem left is him and a couple of other mammoths, like everybody else are good. Can you name somebody else, or you remember only the persons you watched as a child on Russian TV some time in 1992? The entire Russian government and Duma consist of compradors, whether they were somebody important in the 1990s or not (in fact, most were, let's begin with Putin, the "godson" of Yeltsin).

    In the end, a truly colonial state would have never reclaimed Crimea and would never have supported the LDNR.
     
    It is more than that. The entire story is so utterly ridiculous and contradictory in itself, so it cannot be described in the terms like "Russia got Crimea, Russia stronk".


    1) Russia has got Crimea but even before the referendum Moscow and Kiev created an inter-governmental commission to return the heavy weaponry like tanks, etc. from Crimea to mainland Ukraine. WTF? Do you imagine this? Did they know even before everything started? How could you give and receive the weaponry when you were "at war"?
    2) The entire Kremlin propaganda hysteria about the Kiev junta, fascists, etc. was ridiculous and pathetic when suddenly in May 2014 Putin recognized Porosh as a legitimate President and they became "dear partners". HOW'S THAT?
    3) The entire story about blockade of Crimea is no less utterly ridiculous and contradictory. Why did the Ukies not shut out Crimea at once, but wait until the fall 2015, so Putin could easily save the day?
    4) The Kremlin supported the LDPR, at the same time they were giving heavy weaponry to the "Kiev junta", they sold fuel for Ukie tanks, they sold oil, gas, coal and what else practically for nothing (hryvnia is worth nothing, and Ukraine has been short of dollars since 2014). The Kremlin practically has been feeding and saving Ukraine from a collapse for the last 2 years.
    5) A number of high profile Russian banks (including a couple of state ones) DOES NOT recognize Crimea as Russian.
    6) The Kremlin HAS NOT nullified the treaties that clearly state that Crimea is Ukrainian. HOW'S THAT?
    7) In spite of the Ukrainian anti-Russian hysteria for the past 2 years, they are as hypocritical and double-faced as the Kremlin. The Ukies hate Russians, but buy everything from Russia, they are bargaining about discounts for gas, even Porosh still has had (until recently) his factory in Russia, etc.

    So on, so on. It can be continued, but it is quite enough. And I'm not sure you will listen even if I sympathize you and I believe you are smart, but you are still blinded. Just open your mind. (Frankly, I do not see a reason why you should open your eyes on anything, it is quite cozy to live where you are and to continue to believe in your own illusions, I might do the same if I were you.)
  57. @Priss Factor
    Holocaust(and other tragedies of WWII) were so horrible that they needed no exaggeration.

    But unfortunately, some Jews did cook things up to make Holocaust even worse.
    There was no need for this since it was horrible beyond imagining.

    I grew up with stories of soaps, lamp shades, and etc, all of which I believed.
    It made Nazi seem even more sinister.

    It's like you don't have to add Godzilla to Hiroshima to make it seem horrible. Even if the bomb didn't unleash Godzilla, it was horrible enough.

    Because there were so many lies and hoaxes added to make Holocaust seem even worse, the deniers point to such and say the WHOLE thing was a hoax.
    That's throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

    Among legit historians, recent studies show that the number of Jews killed in gas chambers was greatly exaggerated. Much of the killing happened with gunshots to the head in the battle fields.

    But I grew up thinking most Jews were killed in shower rooms by gas. It's become such a fixture of the Holocaust narrative that it messes up the discourse.

    Whenever someone says that death-by-gassing was exaggerated, Jews scream and call him a Holocaust denier.
    But then, there are deniers who use such exaggerations and falsehoods to say there never was a Holocaust at all.
    They are like Japanese far-right nuts who claim that, just because some accounts of Nanking massacre were false, the whole thing must be a farce.

    Surely, there is a sane ground, but the issue has been too politicized.

    I think there is a way to counter the Holocaust Industry(filled with slimeballs like Abe Foxman) without denying the industrial death machine that was the Holocaust.

    Also, the term 'holocaust survivor' has to be revised. For the longest time, I thought a holocaust survivor was someone who experienced the camps and full brutality of the Nazi machine. I would call them survivors.

    But the term includes just about any Jew who happened to live in zones of Nazi occupation. Sure, all faced hardships, but many didn't come face to face with near-death. In France, 1/4 of the Jewish population got shipped to the camps. If any survived, I would call them holocaust survivors.
    But under current use of term, just about any Jew who lived in Nazi area of occupation was a 'holocaust survivor'. That is nuts.

    Whenever someone says that death-by-gassing was exaggerated, Jews scream and call him a Holocaust denier.

    Actually, in some European countries, merely questioning the ‘official’ 6 million figure or downplaying the use of poison gass is, in itself, illegal. These are now articles of faith in the new religion of Holocaustianity. To question these beliefs is heresy, and will get you hauled before the Inquisition!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Priss Factor
    Yeah, that is the problem.

    It went from banning the denial of historical truth to punishment for merest heresy.
    , @Wizard of Oz
    Can you cite chapter and verse for those illiberal laws about the six million and poison gas, or is it just factoid?
  58. Talha says:
    @Seamus Padraig
    I would hope--for the sake of both Turkey and the middle east at large--that Erdogan will be able to produce something more functional than Pakistan. The Pakis remind me of that old joke about Prussia: 'Not a kingdom that has an army, but rather an army that has a kingdom.' At least Prussia was stable and well-run though.

    Hey SP,

    Same hope here…sigh…truth hurts. But they still have great biryani and qawwali.

    Peace.

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  59. Avery says:
    @Seamus Padraig
    Kimberly Kagan is a neocon, so she is not merely 'predicting' what will happen in Turkey; she's giving us all a hint as to what US policy toward Turkey will be once the divorce is complete: they will seek to dismantle Turkey along ethnic lines. It's what the AngloZionists always do when you turn against them.

    {they will seek to dismantle Turkey along ethnic lines. }

    God willing, they will succeeded.
    Not withstanding Turkophile shills like Shamiroğlu, the criminal, genocidal, Uyguroğlu invadonomad Turk IslamoFascist state has no right to exist.

    The Uyguroğlar savage nomad Turks are a foreign, unwelcome element in Asia Minor, who are squatting on Christian lands.
    The criminal Turk state must be dismantled.

    Read More
    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus

    The Uyguroğlar savage nomad Turks are a foreign, unwelcome element in Asia Minor, who are squatting on Christian lands.
    The criminal Turk state must be dismantled.
     
    What Would Jesus Do
  60. @Israel Shamir
    This is a bit disappointing that the commentators overlooked the second part of my article. The Turkish events, dramatic as they were, served just an example for the Americans to prepare for the need to defend democracy. It will be difficult enough to bring Trump to the White House even if people will vote for him in droves.

    I don’t believe in trump either :( the illusion was dispelled when he went to lick ass at aipac just like any other politician.

    I truly believe democracy is just an illusion pacifying the masses.

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  61. Parbes says:

    I have lost all of my previous respect for Israel Shamir after this article, and the earlier one a few days ago in the same vein applauding Erdogan’s weathering of the coup attempt. This man is completely delusional regarding Turkey, Turks, the Erdogan regime, and the meaning of “democracy” (since I don’t know too much about him, I do not want to speculate at this point about the possible presence of baser, more sinister motivations). Either he is honestly not fully aware of the situation in Turkey and Turkish society; or he is deliberately misinterpreting, misrepresenting and misleading. His conflating of Islamist populism and show elections with true democracy is an unpardonable error, for one thing. His equating the traitorous anti-Putin “liberast” opposition in Russia with the coup-attempting military people and secular Turks in general as “two sides of the same coin” is truly idiotic; and a sort of inverse mirror image of the moronic meme, so fashionable in certain Western left-liberal circles nowadays, which lumps Putin and Erdogan together as bad-guy “dictators” (but somehow always ends up advocating concrete action against Putin and Russia only, never against Erdogan and Turkey!). And what takes the cake, is his disingenuous defence of the Erdogan regime spin about the coup plotters being Gülen followers. There is no proof that the coup plotters belonged to the “Gülenist” movement at all; they themselves certainly did not say this. This is the claim of the Erdogan government. Are we supposed to take this at face value? Because Erdogan and his henchmen cannot lie, right? Pretty much everyone agrees that Erdogan is an Islamist lowlife petty tyrant; but when he claims something like this we are all supposed to accept it as holy writ coming from an unimpeachable source of unparallelled integrity and honesty…yeah, RIGHT!

    Israel Shamir is openly shilling for an Islamist dictator and supporter of international jihadi terrorism. He is completely out of line, and has revealed himself to be nothing but another agenda-driven, dishonest spinmeister.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    My impression is that there is nothing sinister about Shamir but that he is an egotistical blowhard who likes to be heard and occasionally throws up a phrase or idea or two which has a ring of interesting truth. But you make me wonder how you can put Putin on a pedestal by implication.
  62. anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Rehmat
    You're more dumb than I thought.

    Who hate Pakistan more than Zionist Jews and extremist Hindus?

    Were Usmanis ever became prime minister, president or C-in-C of Pakistan?

    Gen. Zia-ul-Haq was very close to Jewish Saudi 'royals', and pro-Israel Qadiani leaders.

    So, if DAWN is run by anti-Islam secular group - all Pakistani news and TV media is owned by secularist just like the western media and TV is run by Zionist Jews - What an excuse to cover your stupidity!!

    Are to a disciple of Salman Rushde?

    Pulitzer Prize-winning Jew York Times journalist Carlotta Gall in her new book, ‘The Wrong Enemy: America in Afghanistan’ has claimed the US has been waging a war against a wrong enemy for the last thirteen years. She claims the real enemy is Pakistan and not Afghanistan.

    The Jewish Lobby has been calling Washington to attack Pakistan since early 1950s – decades before Pakistan became the sole nuclear power among 57 Muslim majority states.

    Bruce Riedel, former CIA official and currently employed by US-Israel citizen, billionaire Haim Saban at the Brookings Institute, wrote at Jewish Tablet magazine (June 27, 2011): “We need a military presence in Afghanistan so we continue to send drones and commandos over the Pakistani border. We don’t need 100,000 troops in Afghanistan, but we do Afghan permission to operate in that country for the long term. That is the other hard lesson Abbottabad.” Riedel was referring to the assassination of Osama bin Laden in Abbottabad (Pakistan) which has long been proved to be a hoax.

    Selig S. Harrison, south-Asian expert at Jewish-funded Center for International Policy (CIP), in 2011 article, entitled ‘Free Balochistan’, called Washington to provide funds and military aid to anti-Islamabad rebels who wants to establish a pro-Israel Eretz Balochistan over Pakistan-Iran territory.

    “Pakistan has given China a base at Gwadar in the heart of Baloch territory. So an independent Balochistan would serve US strategic interests (against Iran and China) in addition to countering (anti-Israel) Islamist forces,” said Harrison. The Zionist moron ignores the fact that the entire Gwadar Port project was funded and built by Chinese companies. Islamabad has leased the operation of Gwadar Port to China for the next 25 years to recover its investment.

    https://rehmat1.com/2014/04/27/jewish-author-pakistan-is-the-us-enemy/

    Rehamat ,
    How about JFR Jacob ?? How about these facts ??
    JFR Jacob the jewish General in the Indian army who forced the surrender of Pakistan in the Bangladesh war. 90,000 Pakistani mujehadeen islamic soldiers surrendering to a Jew , in the Indian army , despite outnumbering them 6 to 1 . LoL . Imagine a Jew as a general in the Indian army , forcing the surrender of the great Islamic Mujehadeen of Pakistan . LoL. History is better than fiction .

    JFR Jacob a true hero to Hindus , Jews , and all civilized people .

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  63. Priss Factor [AKA "Anonymny"] says:
    @Seamus Padraig

    Whenever someone says that death-by-gassing was exaggerated, Jews scream and call him a Holocaust denier.
     
    Actually, in some European countries, merely questioning the 'official' 6 million figure or downplaying the use of poison gass is, in itself, illegal. These are now articles of faith in the new religion of Holocaustianity. To question these beliefs is heresy, and will get you hauled before the Inquisition!

    Yeah, that is the problem.

    It went from banning the denial of historical truth to punishment for merest heresy.

    Read More
  64. @Avery
    {they will seek to dismantle Turkey along ethnic lines. }

    God willing, they will succeeded.
    Not withstanding Turkophile shills like Shamiroğlu, the criminal, genocidal, Uyguroğlu invadonomad Turk IslamoFascist state has no right to exist.

    The Uyguroğlar savage nomad Turks are a foreign, unwelcome element in Asia Minor, who are squatting on Christian lands.
    The criminal Turk state must be dismantled.

    The Uyguroğlar savage nomad Turks are a foreign, unwelcome element in Asia Minor, who are squatting on Christian lands.
    The criminal Turk state must be dismantled.

    What Would Jesus Do

    Read More
  65. DaveE says:
    @Israel Shamir
    This is a bit disappointing that the commentators overlooked the second part of my article. The Turkish events, dramatic as they were, served just an example for the Americans to prepare for the need to defend democracy. It will be difficult enough to bring Trump to the White House even if people will vote for him in droves.

    “One man with courage makes a majority.” —- Andrew Jackson

    Let’s hope we’re at least in the double-digits.

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  66. anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Talha
    Hey Avery, nope - look at his first response to me - I've been Moshe-fied. No one escapes...

    Peace.

    Tahla ,
    Do you believe Rehmat is truly a Muslim ?
    Moshe is used by him as an insult to Jews but clearly its insulting to Islam as well then , as they claim Moshe as a prophet as well , spelled Moussa in English from Arabic.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    I don't know - it is an anonymous forum, but his website certainly points in that direction. I take people at face value on their claims and certainly will not be found having to answer, in the next life, for doing takfir on a Muslim; as Imam Abu Hanifah (ra) stated; "To deem a thousand disbelievers as Muslim is safer with God than to deem one Muslim a disbeliever."

    I assume he is using Moshe in the generic sense of an obvious Jewish name; I have a Jewish neighbor named Moshe, nice guy, cute kids.

    Peace.

  67. […] UNZ: The People Will Decide in Turkey By Israel Shamir {PLEASE READ} […]

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  68. Isaac says: • Website

    Thank you Mr. Israel Adam Shamir for your wonderful article. I have read some of your books and I like specially “The Other Face of Israel” in Spanish. Every thing you say is right about Turkey’s people that have given a good lesson to the whole world and we also need to give a lesson to the Oligarchs, the super-rich who think they are above the law and commit crimes with impunity. Thank you for fighting for the Palestinian people who have been ignored by Americans due to the daily brainwashing the Jewish Controlled news media who never cease to call them “terrorists” while the real terrorists are the Israelis.
    Washington needs a CLEAN HOUSE. too much corruption, too many lies, too many crimes the government has committed against humanity by attacking all those countries and by sending our kids to fight for the illegal entity of Israel.

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  69. Anonymous says: • Website • Disclaimer

    The Turks should decide the fate of Turkey. They should not decide the fate of Syria. * google mail

    Read More
    • Replies: @Truth Watch
    Nor should Hizbullah, Shia mercenaries from Pakistan and Afghanistan, Iran, US or Russia. If any neighbor has an interest for peace and containment of PKK/YPG Marxist-nationalist totalitarians , it is Turkey.
  70. Talha says:
    @anonymous
    Tahla ,
    Do you believe Rehmat is truly a Muslim ?
    Moshe is used by him as an insult to Jews but clearly its insulting to Islam as well then , as they claim Moshe as a prophet as well , spelled Moussa in English from Arabic.

    I don’t know – it is an anonymous forum, but his website certainly points in that direction. I take people at face value on their claims and certainly will not be found having to answer, in the next life, for doing takfir on a Muslim; as Imam Abu Hanifah (ra) stated; “To deem a thousand disbelievers as Muslim is safer with God than to deem one Muslim a disbeliever.”

    I assume he is using Moshe in the generic sense of an obvious Jewish name; I have a Jewish neighbor named Moshe, nice guy, cute kids.

    Peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Regnum Nostrum

    I assume he is using Moshe in the generic sense of an obvious Jewish name; I have a Jewish neighbor named Moshe, nice guy, cute kids.
     
    You assume correctly but do not expect this guy to understand even a simple thing like this one.
  71. krollchem says:
    @Israel Shamir
    This is a bit disappointing that the commentators overlooked the second part of my article. The Turkish events, dramatic as they were, served just an example for the Americans to prepare for the need to defend democracy. It will be difficult enough to bring Trump to the White House even if people will vote for him in droves.

    From what I can tell Erdogan is trying to run Turkey as a family business along with his son and son-in-law (among other family members). He was elected via a flawed election after demonizing the Kurdish party and murdering many Kurds in order to elicit a response that would cause Sunni Turks to vote for him out of fear. His dream is to recreate the Ottoman Empire of all so called Turkic peoples. A dream that will fail for many reasons beyond the scope of this comment.

    Russia is not fooled by his apology, but is interested in a greater game of Eurasian integration and ultimately greater trade links with Western Europe. Russia gains by:
    (1) resumption of talks on building the Turkstream gas pipeline to generate cash and bypass Ukraine;
    (2) construction of Russian nuclear energy projects in Turkey;
    (3) suppressing Qatar gas imports into Turkey that also allows Iran to get their fair share of the South Pars gas field;
    (4) An agreement that Turkey will no longer seek to create problems in Crimea and Syria;
    (5) Turkish buy-in on the Azeri-Armenia conflict;
    (6) further erosion of the control of Europe by the deep state globalists from the European Commission among many others. Putin will soon be able to breakout the popcorn and watch the EU circus collapse into at least four grouping of states.

    My take is that Turkish people took to the street to prevent a US CIA backed military coup. Erdogan appears to be dismantling Fethullah Gülen’s CIA backed network and the George Soros Open Society web of connections. Both groups are as power hungry as Erdogan.

    In watching the street manifestations I was struck by posters that read Millet=yes and USA=no. Optimistically a Mullet legal system is the best one can hope for at this stage of Turkey’s development:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millet_(Ottoman_Empire)

    Oddly, the Millet concept is similar to that in Egypt following the excesses of the Muslim Brotherhood against the Coptic faith.

    As for the US elections, and the prospect of Killery as the President, the Electoral College ensures that only 6-8 battleground states matter. My State will vote for Hillery so I am free to vote for Gary Johnson, as I see both main political (mafia) parties a two heads of the same bird of prey.

    Lets hope that Hillery doesn’t get control of the nuclear suitcase!

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  72. @anonymous
    thnk the gods your here to give the joint some class, Rectum Nostrum.

    Thank you for corroborating my claim nameless coward.

    Read More
    • Replies: @5371
    So your parents named you Regnum Nostrum? I think I am starting to understand you better.
  73. @Talha
    I don't know - it is an anonymous forum, but his website certainly points in that direction. I take people at face value on their claims and certainly will not be found having to answer, in the next life, for doing takfir on a Muslim; as Imam Abu Hanifah (ra) stated; "To deem a thousand disbelievers as Muslim is safer with God than to deem one Muslim a disbeliever."

    I assume he is using Moshe in the generic sense of an obvious Jewish name; I have a Jewish neighbor named Moshe, nice guy, cute kids.

    Peace.

    I assume he is using Moshe in the generic sense of an obvious Jewish name; I have a Jewish neighbor named Moshe, nice guy, cute kids.

    You assume correctly but do not expect this guy to understand even a simple thing like this one.

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  74. empty says:

    is this just baseless rumors:

    TEHRAN (FNA)- Arab media outlets quoted diplomats in Ankara as disclosing that Turkey’s President Erdogan was alerted by Russia against an imminent army coup hours before it was initiated on Friday, while a western media outlet said Erdogan asked his supporters to remain in the streets after receiving advice from Tehran.

    http://en.farsnews.com/newstext.aspx?nn=13950430001452

    Read More
    • Replies: @Truth Watch
    Usual Iranian propaganda and after the fact, to demonize its enemies. The Shia are trained from childhood in propaganda, they have been doing it for 1300 years.
  75. 5371 says:
    @Regnum Nostrum
    Thank you for corroborating my claim nameless coward.

    So your parents named you Regnum Nostrum? I think I am starting to understand you better.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Regnum Nostrum
    I doubt it. By naming you 5371 your parents have shown a serious lack of judgement and poor taste. Two qualities that you seem to have inherited in ample measure.
  76. Avery says:
    @RadicalCenter
    Better than invading Pakistan, just let the Indians know that we won't interfere if they want to finally eradicate their arch-enemy.

    {Better than invading Pakistan,……}

    Last time US took on an adversary that could put up a half-decent fight was WW2 Imperial Japan.
    After the ignominious Viet Nam defeat, American public has lost the appetite for losing anything close to 50,000 men in war. All the wars since then have been against countries that could not bite back.

    US has no reason to invade Pakistan.
    US had no reason to invade Iraq either, but Iraq had no nukes and its conventional army was no match. A nice little adventure for Neocon crazies to break and loot a defenseless country.
    The fact that ~4,500 GIs were killed is the “cost of doing business”. They volunteered, didn’t they?
    And Iraqi civilian deaths are of no concern to the likes of Evil Witch Albright.

    Pakistan leadership is owned by US, so why bother invading? What is there to loot?
    Also, Pakistan is a nation of 180 million, with a vary capable military.
    If Pakistan threatened the existence of US for some unfathomable reason – how could it? – then US would erase it from the face of the Earth. But it would not be by sending US ground troops to be ground-up on the Pakistani boondocks.


    {…. just let the Indians know that we won’t interfere if they want to finally eradicate their arch-enemy.}

    It will be near impossible for India to eradicate Pakistan by conventional means.
    So you are talking about a nuke war.
    The number of nukes needed to eradicate (murder) 180 million people means radioactive contamination spreading to the neighboring countries and beyond.
    And China is not going to stand by and allow India to do that.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha

    So you are talking about a nuke war.
     
    And Pakistan also has them.
    "In 2004, a Pakistani official described four policy objectives for Islamabad’s nuclear weapons: deter all forms of external aggression; deter through a combination of conventional and strategic forces; deter counterforce strategies by securing strategic assets and threatening nuclear retaliation; and stabilize strategic deterrence in South Asia.85 Pakistani officials have also indicated that this nuclear posture is designed to preserve territorial integrity against Indian
    attack, prevent military escalation, and counter India’s conventional superiority."
    https://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/nuke/RL34248.pdf

    No one wins this scenario - this is Mutually Assured Destruction on the local sub-continental scale - both the Muslim and Hindu heritage of India are vaporized. And the area will be so miserably irradiated that no one will want to move in to reap the resources for decades upon decades.

    As far as US attack on Pakistan - totally agree, what the hell for? Also, people should think about the 'Pick one city' scenario that Scott Ritter (nuclear weapons inspector in Iraq) outlined when the drums were beating for marching on Iran - because the scenario is ten times more probable when dealing with Pakistan (not that I agree with responding to mass murder by mass murder, but not everyone thinks this way).
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wMDARDxyRo

    May God never allow that to happen.

    , @Wizard of Oz
    "ignominious Vietnam defeat" Avery? Is that an accurate description of the events surrounding America's dishonourable slinking away from the mess then refusing appropriations even for air support for their abandoned allies? Jerry Pournelle has insisted there was no military defeat: just a new Democrat Congress...
    , @Art

    After the ignominious Viet Nam defeat, American public has lost the appetite for losing anything close to 50,000 men in war.
     
    The word “ignominious” comes up short when describing an action causing a million people to die (60,000 of our own).

    Shame on the politicians who did this – shame on the generals who kept it going.

    “Blessed are the peacemakers” – Jesus.

    Never leave the ideals of Jesus out of any decision.
  77. Boris N says:
    @Anonymous
    45m out of 150m? Doesn't work that way as a great part of that 150m are minors/unregistere. However the rest of your rant does seem reasonable.

    You’ve nearly got me, but no. Russia is a relatively ageing nation, so the number of minors (<18yo) is not large, just about 27M, so the number of potential voters is around 147M-27M=120M. However, in 2012 only 110M voters were registered. I'm not sure where 10M disappeared, but we leave this mystery for now. So even with all the electoral machinations you hardly got 40% of Russians who voted for Putin. So it is a deliberate misleading statement to say that "Russians are for Putin". No, just 40% of them, and this number has obviously been falsified and inflated. You see, Russians voted against Putin just by not going to "the election of Putin".

    And the election of the "Party of Power" was even more pathetic. In many provincial cities the United Russia hardly got 30%, and many just ignored the elections altogether.
    Because for many Russians, especially in provincial regions, the "Party of Power" is associated only with the greedy corrupted bureaucrats from their local governments, and most of those officials were members of the Communist Party of the SU in the past. So the situation is really hopeless. You saw the corrupted nomenklatura somewhere in 1985, but after 30 years the very same persons are still in power.

    But what will surprise and even frighten most Westerners and the Western establishment particularly is that when Russians refused to vote for the UR they voted not for pro-Western liberals, but Russians were so desperate to vote for anybody but not for the "Party" that they voted for the Russian communists! In fact, the communists won in many electoral districts, particularly in urban areas. So the Western establishment must really appreciate Putin and the UR, because their alternative are not liberals, but communists (in the modern Russian reality the "Russian communists" are rather left socialist populists than classical hard-core communists).

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  78. Boris N says:
    @RadicalCenter
    Exactly. For a meaningful measure, we need to know how many Russians were registered to vote in that election.

    I’ve answered above.

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  79. Talha says:
    @Avery
    {Better than invading Pakistan,......}

    Last time US took on an adversary that could put up a half-decent fight was WW2 Imperial Japan.
    After the ignominious Viet Nam defeat, American public has lost the appetite for losing anything close to 50,000 men in war. All the wars since then have been against countries that could not bite back.

    US has no reason to invade Pakistan.
    US had no reason to invade Iraq either, but Iraq had no nukes and its conventional army was no match. A nice little adventure for Neocon crazies to break and loot a defenseless country.
    The fact that ~4,500 GIs were killed is the "cost of doing business". They volunteered, didn't they?
    And Iraqi civilian deaths are of no concern to the likes of Evil Witch Albright.

    Pakistan leadership is owned by US, so why bother invading? What is there to loot?
    Also, Pakistan is a nation of 180 million, with a vary capable military.
    If Pakistan threatened the existence of US for some unfathomable reason - how could it? - then US would erase it from the face of the Earth. But it would not be by sending US ground troops to be ground-up on the Pakistani boondocks.


    {.... just let the Indians know that we won’t interfere if they want to finally eradicate their arch-enemy.}


    It will be near impossible for India to eradicate Pakistan by conventional means.
    So you are talking about a nuke war.
    The number of nukes needed to eradicate (murder) 180 million people means radioactive contamination spreading to the neighboring countries and beyond.
    And China is not going to stand by and allow India to do that.

    So you are talking about a nuke war.

    And Pakistan also has them.
    “In 2004, a Pakistani official described four policy objectives for Islamabad’s nuclear weapons: deter all forms of external aggression; deter through a combination of conventional and strategic forces; deter counterforce strategies by securing strategic assets and threatening nuclear retaliation; and stabilize strategic deterrence in South Asia.85 Pakistani officials have also indicated that this nuclear posture is designed to preserve territorial integrity against Indian
    attack, prevent military escalation, and counter India’s conventional superiority.”

    https://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/nuke/RL34248.pdf

    No one wins this scenario – this is Mutually Assured Destruction on the local sub-continental scale – both the Muslim and Hindu heritage of India are vaporized. And the area will be so miserably irradiated that no one will want to move in to reap the resources for decades upon decades.

    As far as US attack on Pakistan – totally agree, what the hell for? Also, people should think about the ‘Pick one city’ scenario that Scott Ritter (nuclear weapons inspector in Iraq) outlined when the drums were beating for marching on Iran – because the scenario is ten times more probable when dealing with Pakistan (not that I agree with responding to mass murder by mass murder, but not everyone thinks this way).

    May God never allow that to happen.

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  80. Che Guava says:
    @Quartermaster
    The coup was incompetently executed. If you are going to kill the King, you kill the King. You don't mince words, or simply send someone to do it, the rest of the coup is dependent on the most important thing - kill the King first. They didn't, so the whole thing unraveled.

    From what I can tell, those arrested are not Gulenists, but Kemalists. Erdogan has been working to purge Turkey of Kemalists from positions of power and influence. Mustafa Kemal set up Turkey in a way that made the military the guarantor of the constitution, and Erdogan can't tolerate that and accomplish making Turkey an Islamist country.

    QM, have you read the Luttwalk textbook on coups d’etat? I used to have a dream of making a video game based on it, it would be a good game.

    Likely never have the time.

    However, killing is not the only nor best way to neutralise the deposed head of state, from my own thoughts:

    exile in an enemy state that is ineffectual,

    permanent house arrest,

    consignment to a nicely equipped flat or house in a mental hospital with large grounds, exempted from being treated as a patient.

    Erdogan sure is delusional, with his thousand-room palace &c., and clinically mad paranoid, only for his own actions to push him into the realm of insanity.

    Mr. Shamir did have a new and interesting point to add (among a few others).

    Whether that vid. was real or a quick fiction, after the fact (I suspect the latter), I do not know. Also suspect that, if not already, it will soon disappear.

    However, now we have this video of the armed soldiers dropping by ropes from their helicopters and storming the hotel where the president stayed – some thirty minutes after he left.

    Since it is so much later, I would assume that it was fabricated for the true coup d’etat by Sultana Erdogan, still in progress now, but sure, I do not know, but I would always assume Mr. Shamir to write in good faith, even if I think he is badly mistaken on rare occasions, such as this.

    As a side thing, it is interesting that the Turkish flags on today’s news appear to be made of PVC, or similar. Most places, the flags are made of cloth, but the Turkish flags behind Erdogan were clearly made of plastic.

    Sure, that is just poor taste, but hardly surprising.

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  81. Boris N says:
    @Anatoly Karlin
    This is nonsensical.

    There remain comprador elements within Russia, many of them significantly inherited from Yeltsinism (Chubais etc) but they have an order of magnitude less influence today than back then.

    In the end, a truly colonial state would have never reclaimed Crimea and would never have supported the LDNR.

    This is nonsensical.

    Nonsensical is to live for the past 20 years in your cozy house in a good white middle-class neighbourhood somewhere in cozy warm sunny California and to speak out loud how good the life in Russia is. Especially, if you have not lived in Russia since the early childhood and know about the country largely by watching RT and RTR Planeta and reading Rosstat’s success reports. I haven’t had a single doubt that it is easy to become a Putinust in such milky conditions. Especially, it is easy to say about a happy Russian life when your elder relatives and acquaintances are not trying to make two ends meet with their $200 pension, while your wage is hardly better. I know my country, I know my people, I see my people, but you, happy ignorant Americans, know nothing.

    There remain comprador elements within Russia, many of them significantly inherited from Yeltsinism (Chubais etc) but they have an order of magnitude less influence today than back then.

    Forget Chubais. It is ridiculous to always remember his name when speaking about compradors as if the only problem left is him and a couple of other mammoths, like everybody else are good. Can you name somebody else, or you remember only the persons you watched as a child on Russian TV some time in 1992? The entire Russian government and Duma consist of compradors, whether they were somebody important in the 1990s or not (in fact, most were, let’s begin with Putin, the “godson” of Yeltsin).

    In the end, a truly colonial state would have never reclaimed Crimea and would never have supported the LDNR.

    It is more than that. The entire story is so utterly ridiculous and contradictory in itself, so it cannot be described in the terms like “Russia got Crimea, Russia stronk”.

    1) Russia has got Crimea but even before the referendum Moscow and Kiev created an inter-governmental commission to return the heavy weaponry like tanks, etc. from Crimea to mainland Ukraine. WTF? Do you imagine this? Did they know even before everything started? How could you give and receive the weaponry when you were “at war”?
    2) The entire Kremlin propaganda hysteria about the Kiev junta, fascists, etc. was ridiculous and pathetic when suddenly in May 2014 Putin recognized Porosh as a legitimate President and they became “dear partners”. HOW’S THAT?
    3) The entire story about blockade of Crimea is no less utterly ridiculous and contradictory. Why did the Ukies not shut out Crimea at once, but wait until the fall 2015, so Putin could easily save the day?
    4) The Kremlin supported the LDPR, at the same time they were giving heavy weaponry to the “Kiev junta”, they sold fuel for Ukie tanks, they sold oil, gas, coal and what else practically for nothing (hryvnia is worth nothing, and Ukraine has been short of dollars since 2014). The Kremlin practically has been feeding and saving Ukraine from a collapse for the last 2 years.
    5) A number of high profile Russian banks (including a couple of state ones) DOES NOT recognize Crimea as Russian.
    6) The Kremlin HAS NOT nullified the treaties that clearly state that Crimea is Ukrainian. HOW’S THAT?
    7) In spite of the Ukrainian anti-Russian hysteria for the past 2 years, they are as hypocritical and double-faced as the Kremlin. The Ukies hate Russians, but buy everything from Russia, they are bargaining about discounts for gas, even Porosh still has had (until recently) his factory in Russia, etc.

    So on, so on. It can be continued, but it is quite enough. And I’m not sure you will listen even if I sympathize you and I believe you are smart, but you are still blinded. Just open your mind. (Frankly, I do not see a reason why you should open your eyes on anything, it is quite cozy to live where you are and to continue to believe in your own illusions, I might do the same if I were you.)

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    • Replies: @5371
    You are a professional western troll posing as a Russian resident and patriot. I say to you in the words of a Shakespearean character, "Go to, you are known very well."
    , @Anatoly Karlin

    Nonsensical is to live for the past 20 years in your cozy house in a good white middle-class neighbourhood somewhere in cozy warm sunny California and to speak out loud how good the life in Russia is. Especially, if you have not lived in Russia since the early childhood and know about the country largely by watching RT and RTR Planeta and reading Rosstat’s success reports.
     
    The specificity of your knowledge of my bio is somewhat higher than I believe I ever put into the public domain. And predictably for the most part it's wrong.

    I watch RT like once a year, lol. I have never had a TV. However you are correct I do consult Rosstat a lot. Statistics > anecdotes and rhetoric.

    The entire Russian government and Duma consist of compradors, whether they were somebody important in the 1990s or not (in fact, most were, let’s begin with Putin, the “godson” of Yeltsin).
     
    And how exactly can you come to power after Yeltsin and not be somehow associated with Yeltsin? (short of staging a coup, which is hard, as 1993 showed, or beating him in elections, which is also hard given the oligarchs/media are on his side, as 1996 showed?)

    Putin removed the most odious Yeltsin era individuals from power. Yeltsin himself was kept under close observation and prevented him from doing any more damage. He allowed them to keep their wealth. You can criticize that, but there are legitimate counterarguments as well.

    1) Russia has got Crimea but even before the referendum Moscow and Kiev created an inter-governmental commission to return the heavy weaponry like tanks, etc. from Crimea to mainland Ukraine. WTF? Do you imagine this? Did they know even before everything started? How could you give and receive the weaponry when you were “at war”?
     
    Yes Russia returned a few rustbuckets to Ukraine. None of that made any difference to the military balance between Russia and Ukraine whatsoever.

    Also the whole point of Russia's entire information strategy is that it is not at war with Ukraine, but that is a civil war between Ukrainians.

    (A strategy that has, despite the "information environment" in Ukraine, done surprisingly well:

    45% респондентов уверены, что ответственность за российско-украинский конфликт прежде всего несет Россия. 7,9% полагают, что Украина, 39% считают, что ответственность несут обе стороны в одинаковой мере.(Ukraine poll: 45% think Russia is responsible, 8% think Ukraine, 39% that both in equal measure)
     
    )

    It also answers many of your consequent points.

    Re-2. What should Russia have done instead? Proclaimed anathema?

    Re-4. Russia has hardly been feeding Ukraine (it has been surviving thanks to politically-approved IMF loans). Yes, Russia could have done more to destabilize Ukraine economically. Maybe it would have resulted in faster Ukrainian disillusionment with Maidanism. Or maybe not. Blaming Russia for their economic woes would have been easier (as in actually justified).

    Re-5. Yes, it is regrettable that merchants would put profits ahead of the national interest. That is hardly unique to Russia however.

    In spite of the Ukrainian anti-Russian hysteria for the past 2 years, they are as hypocritical and double-faced as the Kremlin. The Ukies hate Russians, but buy everything from Russia, they are bargaining about discounts for gas, even Porosh still has had (until recently) his factory in Russia, etc.
     
    I wonder why. It's almost like going "total war" mode has costly political and economic consequences and both regimes recognize that.
  82. @5371
    So your parents named you Regnum Nostrum? I think I am starting to understand you better.

    I doubt it. By naming you 5371 your parents have shown a serious lack of judgement and poor taste. Two qualities that you seem to have inherited in ample measure.

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  83. @Jacques Sheete
    I agree with you.

    Totally hilarious how some people believe 75 year old propaganda regarding Hitler. I guess brainwashing works. Probably a waste of time answering it.

    Anyway...


    "The least of the lessons that revisionism can teach has already been thoroughly learned ( ed: by a select few): that Germany and Japan are not uniquely "aggressor nations," doomed from birth to menace the peace of the world. The larger lessons have, unfortunately, yet to be learned.


    Now revisionism teaches us that this entire myth, so prevalent then and even now about Hitler, and about the Japanese, is a tissue of fallacies from beginning to end. Every plank in this nightmare evidence is either completely untrue or not entirely the truth.


    If people should learn this intellectual fraud about Hitler's Germany, then they will begin to ask questions, and searching questions…”

    Murray Rothbard, Revisionism for Our Times, 1966. Note: This gentleman was also Jewish.
    http://mises.org/daily/2592

    I had always thought Murray Rothbard might be someone of intellect to be respected but you have cited a piece in which he goes from pompous and sententious to plain barmy. How about Britain and the UK joining in WW1 to help Russia take over parts of Eastern Europe ruled by Austria and Germany. Be careful; you may be judged by the company you recommend.

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  84. @Talha
    Hey Avery, nope - look at his first response to me - I've been Moshe-fied. No one escapes...

    Peace.

    Don’t you think Rehmat is a syndicate operationunder the loose control of a Canadian Pakistani but allowing much too free a rein to students and other unemployed youth – probably in Pakistani universities – to whom much comment is outsourced. That would explain why some of it reads like irresponsible mischief and exageration and some like actual subversion of Rehmat through being outrageously stupid or fast and loose with facts.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey WoO,

    I've thought of that, it does seem like all the output is the same in one sense; 1) insulting, 2) uncompromising, 3) always somehow brings the subject to Jews (no matter how unrelated). I don't believe I have heard a single positive thing from that handle regarding anyone; even when the person actually agrees with him, they still somehow get insulted. I think I will simply avoid in the future, there seems no point in carrying a 'conversation' with 'him/them'. He is very effective in getting insults thrown at Islam though - for understandable reasons - maybe that's the plan...

    Who knows? It's the internet - so anything goes nowadays. I've seen people advocate straight up genocide in these forums. I think this medium tends to bring out a kind of psychosis in people (youtube comments - my Lord!)- I'd be very interested in official studies on the matter.

    Peace.

    , @Truth Watch
    It appears Rahmat is a generic name and represents some intelligence agency, he/she is present on many such sites, probably Iranian.
  85. @Seamus Padraig

    Whenever someone says that death-by-gassing was exaggerated, Jews scream and call him a Holocaust denier.
     
    Actually, in some European countries, merely questioning the 'official' 6 million figure or downplaying the use of poison gass is, in itself, illegal. These are now articles of faith in the new religion of Holocaustianity. To question these beliefs is heresy, and will get you hauled before the Inquisition!

    Can you cite chapter and verse for those illiberal laws about the six million and poison gas, or is it just factoid?

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  86. @Parbes
    I have lost all of my previous respect for Israel Shamir after this article, and the earlier one a few days ago in the same vein applauding Erdogan's weathering of the coup attempt. This man is completely delusional regarding Turkey, Turks, the Erdogan regime, and the meaning of "democracy" (since I don't know too much about him, I do not want to speculate at this point about the possible presence of baser, more sinister motivations). Either he is honestly not fully aware of the situation in Turkey and Turkish society; or he is deliberately misinterpreting, misrepresenting and misleading. His conflating of Islamist populism and show elections with true democracy is an unpardonable error, for one thing. His equating the traitorous anti-Putin "liberast" opposition in Russia with the coup-attempting military people and secular Turks in general as "two sides of the same coin" is truly idiotic; and a sort of inverse mirror image of the moronic meme, so fashionable in certain Western left-liberal circles nowadays, which lumps Putin and Erdogan together as bad-guy "dictators" (but somehow always ends up advocating concrete action against Putin and Russia only, never against Erdogan and Turkey!). And what takes the cake, is his disingenuous defence of the Erdogan regime spin about the coup plotters being Gülen followers. There is no proof that the coup plotters belonged to the "Gülenist" movement at all; they themselves certainly did not say this. This is the claim of the Erdogan government. Are we supposed to take this at face value? Because Erdogan and his henchmen cannot lie, right? Pretty much everyone agrees that Erdogan is an Islamist lowlife petty tyrant; but when he claims something like this we are all supposed to accept it as holy writ coming from an unimpeachable source of unparallelled integrity and honesty...yeah, RIGHT!

    Israel Shamir is openly shilling for an Islamist dictator and supporter of international jihadi terrorism. He is completely out of line, and has revealed himself to be nothing but another agenda-driven, dishonest spinmeister.

    My impression is that there is nothing sinister about Shamir but that he is an egotistical blowhard who likes to be heard and occasionally throws up a phrase or idea or two which has a ring of interesting truth. But you make me wonder how you can put Putin on a pedestal by implication.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Parbes
    I was not "putting Putin on a pedestal", neocon dork-idiot boy. I just pointed out the ludicrous dishonesty and double standards of a section of the Western - especially European - liberal-left community, according to whose talk Putin and Erdogan are supposedly both "equivalently dictatorial" (a ridiculous false-equivalency); but who, in practice, advocate concrete action (economic sanctions, NATO military maneuvers, open threats, missile shields, widespread demonization and ostracization etc. etc. etc.) ONLY against Putin and Russia, while nary doing or saying a single thing to offend Erdogan or harm his regime.
  87. Talha says:
    @Wizard of Oz
    Don't you think Rehmat is a syndicate operationunder the loose control of a Canadian Pakistani but allowing much too free a rein to students and other unemployed youth - probably in Pakistani universities - to whom much comment is outsourced. That would explain why some of it reads like irresponsible mischief and exageration and some like actual subversion of Rehmat through being outrageously stupid or fast and loose with facts.

    Hey WoO,

    I’ve thought of that, it does seem like all the output is the same in one sense; 1) insulting, 2) uncompromising, 3) always somehow brings the subject to Jews (no matter how unrelated). I don’t believe I have heard a single positive thing from that handle regarding anyone; even when the person actually agrees with him, they still somehow get insulted. I think I will simply avoid in the future, there seems no point in carrying a ‘conversation’ with ‘him/them’. He is very effective in getting insults thrown at Islam though – for understandable reasons – maybe that’s the plan…

    Who knows? It’s the internet – so anything goes nowadays. I’ve seen people advocate straight up genocide in these forums. I think this medium tends to bring out a kind of psychosis in people (youtube comments – my Lord!)- I’d be very interested in official studies on the matter.

    Peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art

    Who knows? It’s the internet – so anything goes nowadays. I’ve seen people advocate straight up genocide in these forums.
     
    Is it talk or is it actual misdeeds that cause trouble?

    We hear the word “radicalized” over and over from the government security types. They are saying that the reason these killers do what they do, is because someone “educated” them.

    This misdirects the facts - it is a lie – the reason these people kill is because THEIR people are being daily murdered by the West. Not because someone falsely indoctrinated them. There is no falsehood when it comes to Muslim deaths. Do they talk among themselves – yes – but that talk is backed up by the facts of Muslims dying at the hands of the West.

    Fort Hood, San Bernardino, and Orlando where more or less lone wolf attacks that sited Muslim killings as the cause.

    The same is true of blacks and cops – the lone wolf killers in Dallas and Baton Rouge avenged black death. Again the authorities say “how were they radicalized.” Easy they watched TV. The charge of radicalization hides the real problem – the real problem is the first killings.

    The way out of this is to stop the authorizes from killing. When authorities kill the hate compounds.
    , @dahoit
    [Clogging up this thread with numerous short comments containing little substantive information and poor levels of proper spacing and punctuation isn't a good idea. Raise your standards if you wish to see your future comments published.]

    Jews control every political creep,own all the media,have totally supported the hillaryous's ones candidacy,helped her overcome corruption charges,love every trade steal,control every movie about Islamophobic BS, cover up for Israel,9-11,Iraq,open borders,back illegal amnesty,hate Russia and just about every Muslim nation(except our thugs like SA of course)and promote Israel over US.
    Sorry,its all about the Jews,Zion,and the evisceration of America into a modern feudal entity.
    And its why they hate Trump,because he is a threat to that hegemony.
  88. @Avery
    {Better than invading Pakistan,......}

    Last time US took on an adversary that could put up a half-decent fight was WW2 Imperial Japan.
    After the ignominious Viet Nam defeat, American public has lost the appetite for losing anything close to 50,000 men in war. All the wars since then have been against countries that could not bite back.

    US has no reason to invade Pakistan.
    US had no reason to invade Iraq either, but Iraq had no nukes and its conventional army was no match. A nice little adventure for Neocon crazies to break and loot a defenseless country.
    The fact that ~4,500 GIs were killed is the "cost of doing business". They volunteered, didn't they?
    And Iraqi civilian deaths are of no concern to the likes of Evil Witch Albright.

    Pakistan leadership is owned by US, so why bother invading? What is there to loot?
    Also, Pakistan is a nation of 180 million, with a vary capable military.
    If Pakistan threatened the existence of US for some unfathomable reason - how could it? - then US would erase it from the face of the Earth. But it would not be by sending US ground troops to be ground-up on the Pakistani boondocks.


    {.... just let the Indians know that we won’t interfere if they want to finally eradicate their arch-enemy.}


    It will be near impossible for India to eradicate Pakistan by conventional means.
    So you are talking about a nuke war.
    The number of nukes needed to eradicate (murder) 180 million people means radioactive contamination spreading to the neighboring countries and beyond.
    And China is not going to stand by and allow India to do that.

    “ignominious Vietnam defeat” Avery? Is that an accurate description of the events surrounding America’s dishonourable slinking away from the mess then refusing appropriations even for air support for their abandoned allies? Jerry Pournelle has insisted there was no military defeat: just a new Democrat Congress…

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    • Replies: @krollchem
    Jerry Pournelle was mistaken as Moshe Dayan pointed out that America had lost the war but didn't know it:
    http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3287009,00.html

    For deep analysis of the Vietnam War see the Israeli military historian Martin van Creveld's long paper on the various reasons for the loss:
    https://theshalomcenter.org/content/moshe-dayan-vietnam-iraqayan

    I hope this helps set the record straight...

    Other that Col Boyd, I do not know of any great strategic thinkers in the US military since before the Vietnam war.
  89. 5371 says:
    @Boris N

    This is nonsensical.
     
    Nonsensical is to live for the past 20 years in your cozy house in a good white middle-class neighbourhood somewhere in cozy warm sunny California and to speak out loud how good the life in Russia is. Especially, if you have not lived in Russia since the early childhood and know about the country largely by watching RT and RTR Planeta and reading Rosstat's success reports. I haven't had a single doubt that it is easy to become a Putinust in such milky conditions. Especially, it is easy to say about a happy Russian life when your elder relatives and acquaintances are not trying to make two ends meet with their $200 pension, while your wage is hardly better. I know my country, I know my people, I see my people, but you, happy ignorant Americans, know nothing.

    There remain comprador elements within Russia, many of them significantly inherited from Yeltsinism (Chubais etc) but they have an order of magnitude less influence today than back then.
     
    Forget Chubais. It is ridiculous to always remember his name when speaking about compradors as if the only problem left is him and a couple of other mammoths, like everybody else are good. Can you name somebody else, or you remember only the persons you watched as a child on Russian TV some time in 1992? The entire Russian government and Duma consist of compradors, whether they were somebody important in the 1990s or not (in fact, most were, let's begin with Putin, the "godson" of Yeltsin).

    In the end, a truly colonial state would have never reclaimed Crimea and would never have supported the LDNR.
     
    It is more than that. The entire story is so utterly ridiculous and contradictory in itself, so it cannot be described in the terms like "Russia got Crimea, Russia stronk".


    1) Russia has got Crimea but even before the referendum Moscow and Kiev created an inter-governmental commission to return the heavy weaponry like tanks, etc. from Crimea to mainland Ukraine. WTF? Do you imagine this? Did they know even before everything started? How could you give and receive the weaponry when you were "at war"?
    2) The entire Kremlin propaganda hysteria about the Kiev junta, fascists, etc. was ridiculous and pathetic when suddenly in May 2014 Putin recognized Porosh as a legitimate President and they became "dear partners". HOW'S THAT?
    3) The entire story about blockade of Crimea is no less utterly ridiculous and contradictory. Why did the Ukies not shut out Crimea at once, but wait until the fall 2015, so Putin could easily save the day?
    4) The Kremlin supported the LDPR, at the same time they were giving heavy weaponry to the "Kiev junta", they sold fuel for Ukie tanks, they sold oil, gas, coal and what else practically for nothing (hryvnia is worth nothing, and Ukraine has been short of dollars since 2014). The Kremlin practically has been feeding and saving Ukraine from a collapse for the last 2 years.
    5) A number of high profile Russian banks (including a couple of state ones) DOES NOT recognize Crimea as Russian.
    6) The Kremlin HAS NOT nullified the treaties that clearly state that Crimea is Ukrainian. HOW'S THAT?
    7) In spite of the Ukrainian anti-Russian hysteria for the past 2 years, they are as hypocritical and double-faced as the Kremlin. The Ukies hate Russians, but buy everything from Russia, they are bargaining about discounts for gas, even Porosh still has had (until recently) his factory in Russia, etc.

    So on, so on. It can be continued, but it is quite enough. And I'm not sure you will listen even if I sympathize you and I believe you are smart, but you are still blinded. Just open your mind. (Frankly, I do not see a reason why you should open your eyes on anything, it is quite cozy to live where you are and to continue to believe in your own illusions, I might do the same if I were you.)

    You are a professional western troll posing as a Russian resident and patriot. I say to you in the words of a Shakespearean character, “Go to, you are known very well.”

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    • Replies: @Boris N
    Thank you for making me laugh and for your appreciation of my English language skills. I never heard in my life such a ridiculously funny and, at the same time,
    praising statement about myself. Surely I have to remember it.
  90. Art says:
    @Avery
    {Better than invading Pakistan,......}

    Last time US took on an adversary that could put up a half-decent fight was WW2 Imperial Japan.
    After the ignominious Viet Nam defeat, American public has lost the appetite for losing anything close to 50,000 men in war. All the wars since then have been against countries that could not bite back.

    US has no reason to invade Pakistan.
    US had no reason to invade Iraq either, but Iraq had no nukes and its conventional army was no match. A nice little adventure for Neocon crazies to break and loot a defenseless country.
    The fact that ~4,500 GIs were killed is the "cost of doing business". They volunteered, didn't they?
    And Iraqi civilian deaths are of no concern to the likes of Evil Witch Albright.

    Pakistan leadership is owned by US, so why bother invading? What is there to loot?
    Also, Pakistan is a nation of 180 million, with a vary capable military.
    If Pakistan threatened the existence of US for some unfathomable reason - how could it? - then US would erase it from the face of the Earth. But it would not be by sending US ground troops to be ground-up on the Pakistani boondocks.


    {.... just let the Indians know that we won’t interfere if they want to finally eradicate their arch-enemy.}


    It will be near impossible for India to eradicate Pakistan by conventional means.
    So you are talking about a nuke war.
    The number of nukes needed to eradicate (murder) 180 million people means radioactive contamination spreading to the neighboring countries and beyond.
    And China is not going to stand by and allow India to do that.

    After the ignominious Viet Nam defeat, American public has lost the appetite for losing anything close to 50,000 men in war.

    The word “ignominious” comes up short when describing an action causing a million people to die (60,000 of our own).

    Shame on the politicians who did this – shame on the generals who kept it going.

    “Blessed are the peacemakers” – Jesus.

    Never leave the ideals of Jesus out of any decision.

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  91. Parbes says:
    @Wizard of Oz
    My impression is that there is nothing sinister about Shamir but that he is an egotistical blowhard who likes to be heard and occasionally throws up a phrase or idea or two which has a ring of interesting truth. But you make me wonder how you can put Putin on a pedestal by implication.

    I was not “putting Putin on a pedestal”, neocon dork-idiot boy. I just pointed out the ludicrous dishonesty and double standards of a section of the Western – especially European – liberal-left community, according to whose talk Putin and Erdogan are supposedly both “equivalently dictatorial” (a ridiculous false-equivalency); but who, in practice, advocate concrete action (economic sanctions, NATO military maneuvers, open threats, missile shields, widespread demonization and ostracization etc. etc. etc.) ONLY against Putin and Russia, while nary doing or saying a single thing to offend Erdogan or harm his regime.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    For someone who thinks so well of himself and his brain that he can toss in idiot and other such insults your failure to notice my word "implicitly" is pretty dismal. I happen to think the crook Putin's objectives and character are marginally less dangerous to civilisation than those of Erdogan apart from population size differences and that Russia should have been engaged positively in Syria long ago...
  92. @Boris N

    This is nonsensical.
     
    Nonsensical is to live for the past 20 years in your cozy house in a good white middle-class neighbourhood somewhere in cozy warm sunny California and to speak out loud how good the life in Russia is. Especially, if you have not lived in Russia since the early childhood and know about the country largely by watching RT and RTR Planeta and reading Rosstat's success reports. I haven't had a single doubt that it is easy to become a Putinust in such milky conditions. Especially, it is easy to say about a happy Russian life when your elder relatives and acquaintances are not trying to make two ends meet with their $200 pension, while your wage is hardly better. I know my country, I know my people, I see my people, but you, happy ignorant Americans, know nothing.

    There remain comprador elements within Russia, many of them significantly inherited from Yeltsinism (Chubais etc) but they have an order of magnitude less influence today than back then.
     
    Forget Chubais. It is ridiculous to always remember his name when speaking about compradors as if the only problem left is him and a couple of other mammoths, like everybody else are good. Can you name somebody else, or you remember only the persons you watched as a child on Russian TV some time in 1992? The entire Russian government and Duma consist of compradors, whether they were somebody important in the 1990s or not (in fact, most were, let's begin with Putin, the "godson" of Yeltsin).

    In the end, a truly colonial state would have never reclaimed Crimea and would never have supported the LDNR.
     
    It is more than that. The entire story is so utterly ridiculous and contradictory in itself, so it cannot be described in the terms like "Russia got Crimea, Russia stronk".


    1) Russia has got Crimea but even before the referendum Moscow and Kiev created an inter-governmental commission to return the heavy weaponry like tanks, etc. from Crimea to mainland Ukraine. WTF? Do you imagine this? Did they know even before everything started? How could you give and receive the weaponry when you were "at war"?
    2) The entire Kremlin propaganda hysteria about the Kiev junta, fascists, etc. was ridiculous and pathetic when suddenly in May 2014 Putin recognized Porosh as a legitimate President and they became "dear partners". HOW'S THAT?
    3) The entire story about blockade of Crimea is no less utterly ridiculous and contradictory. Why did the Ukies not shut out Crimea at once, but wait until the fall 2015, so Putin could easily save the day?
    4) The Kremlin supported the LDPR, at the same time they were giving heavy weaponry to the "Kiev junta", they sold fuel for Ukie tanks, they sold oil, gas, coal and what else practically for nothing (hryvnia is worth nothing, and Ukraine has been short of dollars since 2014). The Kremlin practically has been feeding and saving Ukraine from a collapse for the last 2 years.
    5) A number of high profile Russian banks (including a couple of state ones) DOES NOT recognize Crimea as Russian.
    6) The Kremlin HAS NOT nullified the treaties that clearly state that Crimea is Ukrainian. HOW'S THAT?
    7) In spite of the Ukrainian anti-Russian hysteria for the past 2 years, they are as hypocritical and double-faced as the Kremlin. The Ukies hate Russians, but buy everything from Russia, they are bargaining about discounts for gas, even Porosh still has had (until recently) his factory in Russia, etc.

    So on, so on. It can be continued, but it is quite enough. And I'm not sure you will listen even if I sympathize you and I believe you are smart, but you are still blinded. Just open your mind. (Frankly, I do not see a reason why you should open your eyes on anything, it is quite cozy to live where you are and to continue to believe in your own illusions, I might do the same if I were you.)

    Nonsensical is to live for the past 20 years in your cozy house in a good white middle-class neighbourhood somewhere in cozy warm sunny California and to speak out loud how good the life in Russia is. Especially, if you have not lived in Russia since the early childhood and know about the country largely by watching RT and RTR Planeta and reading Rosstat’s success reports.

    The specificity of your knowledge of my bio is somewhat higher than I believe I ever put into the public domain. And predictably for the most part it’s wrong.

    I watch RT like once a year, lol. I have never had a TV. However you are correct I do consult Rosstat a lot. Statistics > anecdotes and rhetoric.

    The entire Russian government and Duma consist of compradors, whether they were somebody important in the 1990s or not (in fact, most were, let’s begin with Putin, the “godson” of Yeltsin).

    And how exactly can you come to power after Yeltsin and not be somehow associated with Yeltsin? (short of staging a coup, which is hard, as 1993 showed, or beating him in elections, which is also hard given the oligarchs/media are on his side, as 1996 showed?)

    Putin removed the most odious Yeltsin era individuals from power. Yeltsin himself was kept under close observation and prevented him from doing any more damage. He allowed them to keep their wealth. You can criticize that, but there are legitimate counterarguments as well.

    1) Russia has got Crimea but even before the referendum Moscow and Kiev created an inter-governmental commission to return the heavy weaponry like tanks, etc. from Crimea to mainland Ukraine. WTF? Do you imagine this? Did they know even before everything started? How could you give and receive the weaponry when you were “at war”?

    Yes Russia returned a few rustbuckets to Ukraine. None of that made any difference to the military balance between Russia and Ukraine whatsoever.

    Also the whole point of Russia’s entire information strategy is that it is not at war with Ukraine, but that is a civil war between Ukrainians.

    (A strategy that has, despite the “information environment” in Ukraine, done surprisingly well:

    45% респондентов уверены, что ответственность за российско-украинский конфликт прежде всего несет Россия. 7,9% полагают, что Украина, 39% считают, что ответственность несут обе стороны в одинаковой мере.(Ukraine poll: 45% think Russia is responsible, 8% think Ukraine, 39% that both in equal measure)

    )

    It also answers many of your consequent points.

    Re-2. What should Russia have done instead? Proclaimed anathema?

    Re-4. Russia has hardly been feeding Ukraine (it has been surviving thanks to politically-approved IMF loans). Yes, Russia could have done more to destabilize Ukraine economically. Maybe it would have resulted in faster Ukrainian disillusionment with Maidanism. Or maybe not. Blaming Russia for their economic woes would have been easier (as in actually justified).

    Re-5. Yes, it is regrettable that merchants would put profits ahead of the national interest. That is hardly unique to Russia however.

    In spite of the Ukrainian anti-Russian hysteria for the past 2 years, they are as hypocritical and double-faced as the Kremlin. The Ukies hate Russians, but buy everything from Russia, they are bargaining about discounts for gas, even Porosh still has had (until recently) his factory in Russia, etc.

    I wonder why. It’s almost like going “total war” mode has costly political and economic consequences and both regimes recognize that.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Boris N

    The specificity of your knowledge of my bio is somewhat higher than I believe I ever put into the public domain.
     
    Actualy, I've been reading you since a quite long time ago and you said your bio in your old blog before you cautiously deleted it as well as in various posts here and there, so it is not a difficult task to imagine your personality. I even remember some numbers and dates. You with your family left Russia for the UK somewhere in 1994, when you were 6 years old, then after some short time you left for California and seem to have been living there since then (that is no less than 20 years), where as well you get you a degree in Political Economy at Berkeley. I also read your texts in Russian: a typical lame half-forgotten Russian of a person who have not used the language since an early age. I'm sure there is nothing specifical in such a knowledge, especially bearing in mind that you are quite a public person.


    And predictably for the most part it’s wrong.
     
    In what part? Are you a hobo living on the street in a black ghetto in Atlanta? Or have you lived for the past 20 years in a block house in a sleeping quarter of Ivanovo (no, you haven't)? Do not be pretending.

    I watch RT like once a year, lol. I have never had a TV.
     
    That makes things worse. You know Russia even less than I thought. You did not know Russia even from the pictures from TV. Your Russia is a post-Perestroika Russia seen by a 6 year-old boy from a cozy Soviet intelligentsia family.

    However you are correct I do consult Rosstat a lot.
     
    Well, it does not make anybody an expert on Russia.

    Statistics > anecdotes and rhetoric.
     
    Some things like a deep personal experience, not only to be born, but having grown and having been lived in the country for the whole life overweight cool looking tables and graphs from open sources. You cannot beat it with all your Rosstat. You are more like a person who knows some area from the photos from space and who's never been on the ground, but still thinks he knows everything there.

    And how exactly can you come to power after Yeltsin and not be somehow associated with Yeltsin?
     
    Finally, you are starting to agree with me.

    Putin removed the most odious Yeltsin era individuals from power. Yeltsin himself was kept under close observation and prevented him from doing any more damage. He allowed them to keep their wealth.
     
    Really it is a Kremlin made-up mythology, or as you say, "anecdotes and rhetoric". There is no hard proof of that claim. Hardly anything changed and hardly anybody perished (people like Berizovsky or Khodorkovsky are just a very few from many thousands who continue to live happily).

    He allowed them to keep their wealth. You can criticize that, but there are legitimate counterarguments as well.
     
    Again, you are starting to follow my point. But he has not allowed, he has guaranteed their wealth. He, as it's said, a "guarantor".
    But again it just means he's changed nothing. Then what's the difference with Yeltsin? No difference. I bet if Yeltsin were much younger and healthier the Yeltsin's Russia of the 2000s would show the very same success story of the Putin's one. The key is the oil-gas-minerals prices, which constituted a principal basis for the growth of Russian economy. And we must remember Russians are smart and enterprising, they would not continue to live miserably under any president. So why we praise Putin for the economic growth but not the hundreds of thousands of Russian entrepreneurs, I do not know. Even in war, everybody agree that wars are fought and won not only by generals but rather by soldiers. But Putin is not even an "economical general", some businessmen who, let's say, opened shops somewhere in a provincial town and hence have made a contribution to the local economy hardly owe Putin anything.

    Yes Russia returned a few rustbuckets to Ukraine. None of that made any difference to the military balance between Russia and Ukraine whatsoever.
     
    You again repeat a Kremlin mythology. I begin to doubt that you are not monitoring Russian state MSM. Otherwise it would be a mystery how you get a so Kremlin friendly worldview if not from the Kremlin outlets or at least pro-Kremlin informants.
    It does not matter if that weaponry was "rusty" (no, it wasn't, everybody can see how effective it has been at ruining Donetsk), but what matters is the very fact of such a commission already in March 2014. It says about the entire "conflict" more than anything else.

    Also the whole point of Russia’s entire information strategy is that it is not at war with Ukraine, but that is a civil war between Ukrainians.
     
    Well, it's failed. Nobody outside of Russia believes that. Particularly, nobody would believe that the Crimea is "occupied" by the "other" Ukraine itself (let's name them "Blue Ukrainians", with an allusion to the Russian Civil War ), it is simply a nonsense. And LDNR do not claim officially that they are the "other" Ukraine (Blue or whatever) who have just retreated but anyway want entire Ukraine, but instead they are making a worse version of Transnistria. DNR and LNR even could not unite into one entity, but still live separated, what a shame.

    The quote only says that 39% think that both Russia and Ukraine are to blame. That means 100% Ukrainians blame Russia in one way or in another.

    Re-2. What should Russia have done instead?
     
    At least the Kremlin might be not so pathetically hypocritical and double-faced liars. Or could lead the army and conquer the Kiev when everything was hot and ready (that is a small window of the unique once-in-a-century opportunity during March-May 2014). But a good point, now everybody knows that and makes no illusions.

    Re-4. Russia has hardly been feeding Ukraine
     
    You do not know the facts but argue, funny. Ah, I forgot, Rosstat would never say that, hence you never know.

    Re-5. Yes, it is regrettable that merchants would put profits ahead of the national interest. That is hardly unique to Russia however.
     
    It is not that regrettable, it just shows the actual essence of the conflict.

    I wonder why.
     
    Because Putin is the best ever known friend of Ukraine, even the most Russophobic version of it. And who said that the Kremlin have ever been against Russophobes? Actual Russophobes have never bothered or worried the Kremlin, quite the contrary. Actually, the Kremlin sees in the Kiev "junta" their old Soviet kin, blood of the blood, and hence the Kremlin shows a great empathy to Kiev. Or, I'd rather say that the Kremlin has been infiltrated by Ukraine sympathizers from October 25, 1917. Some claim there is a Jewish cabal in the Kremlin, but I'd say it has been a Ukrainian one. "Ukrainian" not only ethnically, but in the sense "Ukraine is not Russia", fundamentally anti-Russian, as the essence of Ukraine is to be anti-Russian.
  93. Art says:
    @Talha
    Hey WoO,

    I've thought of that, it does seem like all the output is the same in one sense; 1) insulting, 2) uncompromising, 3) always somehow brings the subject to Jews (no matter how unrelated). I don't believe I have heard a single positive thing from that handle regarding anyone; even when the person actually agrees with him, they still somehow get insulted. I think I will simply avoid in the future, there seems no point in carrying a 'conversation' with 'him/them'. He is very effective in getting insults thrown at Islam though - for understandable reasons - maybe that's the plan...

    Who knows? It's the internet - so anything goes nowadays. I've seen people advocate straight up genocide in these forums. I think this medium tends to bring out a kind of psychosis in people (youtube comments - my Lord!)- I'd be very interested in official studies on the matter.

    Peace.

    Who knows? It’s the internet – so anything goes nowadays. I’ve seen people advocate straight up genocide in these forums.

    Is it talk or is it actual misdeeds that cause trouble?

    We hear the word “radicalized” over and over from the government security types. They are saying that the reason these killers do what they do, is because someone “educated” them.

    This misdirects the facts – it is a lie – the reason these people kill is because THEIR people are being daily murdered by the West. Not because someone falsely indoctrinated them. There is no falsehood when it comes to Muslim deaths. Do they talk among themselves – yes – but that talk is backed up by the facts of Muslims dying at the hands of the West.

    Fort Hood, San Bernardino, and Orlando where more or less lone wolf attacks that sited Muslim killings as the cause.

    The same is true of blacks and cops – the lone wolf killers in Dallas and Baton Rouge avenged black death. Again the authorities say “how were they radicalized.” Easy they watched TV. The charge of radicalization hides the real problem – the real problem is the first killings.

    The way out of this is to stop the authorizes from killing. When authorities kill the hate compounds.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Dear Art,

    I understand the sentiment. I know that a lot of Muslims are very angry and have a right to be that many of their cities look like mini-Stalingrads and that they have been chased out of their homes and their relatives killed. HOWEVER, that will never justify attacking innocents or people you have a covenant of protection with:
    "The ruling about the non-Muslims at war [with a Muslim state] as mentioned above, because they protect the Muslims [in their territory], is that it would not be permissible for the Muslims [living there] to murder them or to steal from them." Fatwa of the great 12th century Shafi'i Jurist, Imam al-Kurdi (ra)
    http://www.livingislam.org/maa/dcmm_e.html

    One cannot claim to defend or avenge Muslims and then break a load of Islamic injunctions along the way - it will not have favor or support of God even if materially successful. There are times when God puts one in a situation where one is check-mated and all one can do is pray, bear with patience and do things like set up food/medicine drives to alleviate the suffering. You are a Christian, you know well that trials and tribulations have a place in the rectification and purification and evolution of the souls of men:
    "If God loves a people, then He afflicts them with trials. Whoever is patient has the reward of patience, and whoever is impatient has the fault of impatience." - Reported in Musnad Ahmed

    I hope this makes sense and may God bless you for standing for the oppressed.

  94. @Parbes
    I was not "putting Putin on a pedestal", neocon dork-idiot boy. I just pointed out the ludicrous dishonesty and double standards of a section of the Western - especially European - liberal-left community, according to whose talk Putin and Erdogan are supposedly both "equivalently dictatorial" (a ridiculous false-equivalency); but who, in practice, advocate concrete action (economic sanctions, NATO military maneuvers, open threats, missile shields, widespread demonization and ostracization etc. etc. etc.) ONLY against Putin and Russia, while nary doing or saying a single thing to offend Erdogan or harm his regime.

    For someone who thinks so well of himself and his brain that he can toss in idiot and other such insults your failure to notice my word “implicitly” is pretty dismal. I happen to think the crook Putin’s objectives and character are marginally less dangerous to civilisation than those of Erdogan apart from population size differences and that Russia should have been engaged positively in Syria long ago…

    Read More
    • Replies: @Parbes
    You didn't use the word "implicitly", idiot. Here is your exact quote:

    "But you make me wonder how you can put Putin on a pedestal by implication."

    I think what is really "pretty dismal", is your inability to quote your own post in the same thread correctly. For someone claiming to be non-idiotic, that's kind of like shooting yourself in the foot, eh, neocon dork boy?

    The rest of your post is just repetition of the same tired idiotic neocon propaganda tropes devoid of any real logic or sense, demonizing Putin, asserting false equivalency between Putin and Erdogan etc. Hardly worth wasting any time on. But this part is a real gem, though:

    "Russia should have been engaged positively in Syria long ago…"

    Russia IS engaged positively in Syria, idiot - trying to help the legitimate secular Syrian government and people against the hordes of jihadis you Anglo-Zionist kooks unleashed on them together with your buddies Erdogan and Saudis.

    MORON NEOCON!
  95. krollchem says:
    @Wizard of Oz
    "ignominious Vietnam defeat" Avery? Is that an accurate description of the events surrounding America's dishonourable slinking away from the mess then refusing appropriations even for air support for their abandoned allies? Jerry Pournelle has insisted there was no military defeat: just a new Democrat Congress...

    Jerry Pournelle was mistaken as Moshe Dayan pointed out that America had lost the war but didn’t know it:

    http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3287009,00.html

    For deep analysis of the Vietnam War see the Israeli military historian Martin van Creveld’s long paper on the various reasons for the loss:

    https://theshalomcenter.org/content/moshe-dayan-vietnam-iraqayan

    I hope this helps set the record straight…

    Other that Col Boyd, I do not know of any great strategic thinkers in the US military since before the Vietnam war.

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  96. Talha says:
    @Art

    Who knows? It’s the internet – so anything goes nowadays. I’ve seen people advocate straight up genocide in these forums.
     
    Is it talk or is it actual misdeeds that cause trouble?

    We hear the word “radicalized” over and over from the government security types. They are saying that the reason these killers do what they do, is because someone “educated” them.

    This misdirects the facts - it is a lie – the reason these people kill is because THEIR people are being daily murdered by the West. Not because someone falsely indoctrinated them. There is no falsehood when it comes to Muslim deaths. Do they talk among themselves – yes – but that talk is backed up by the facts of Muslims dying at the hands of the West.

    Fort Hood, San Bernardino, and Orlando where more or less lone wolf attacks that sited Muslim killings as the cause.

    The same is true of blacks and cops – the lone wolf killers in Dallas and Baton Rouge avenged black death. Again the authorities say “how were they radicalized.” Easy they watched TV. The charge of radicalization hides the real problem – the real problem is the first killings.

    The way out of this is to stop the authorizes from killing. When authorities kill the hate compounds.

    Dear Art,

    I understand the sentiment. I know that a lot of Muslims are very angry and have a right to be that many of their cities look like mini-Stalingrads and that they have been chased out of their homes and their relatives killed. HOWEVER, that will never justify attacking innocents or people you have a covenant of protection with:
    “The ruling about the non-Muslims at war [with a Muslim state] as mentioned above, because they protect the Muslims [in their territory], is that it would not be permissible for the Muslims [living there] to murder them or to steal from them.” Fatwa of the great 12th century Shafi’i Jurist, Imam al-Kurdi (ra)

    http://www.livingislam.org/maa/dcmm_e.html

    One cannot claim to defend or avenge Muslims and then break a load of Islamic injunctions along the way – it will not have favor or support of God even if materially successful. There are times when God puts one in a situation where one is check-mated and all one can do is pray, bear with patience and do things like set up food/medicine drives to alleviate the suffering. You are a Christian, you know well that trials and tribulations have a place in the rectification and purification and evolution of the souls of men:
    “If God loves a people, then He afflicts them with trials. Whoever is patient has the reward of patience, and whoever is impatient has the fault of impatience.” – Reported in Musnad Ahmed

    I hope this makes sense and may God bless you for standing for the oppressed.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art

    I understand the sentiment. I know that a lot of Muslims are very angry and have a right to be that many of their cities look like mini-Stalingrads and that they have been chased out of their homes and their relatives killed. HOWEVER, that will never justify attacking innocents or people you have a covenant of protection with
     
    Talha,

    Two wrongs never ever make a right.

    I did not intend to say that these killers were justified in what they are doing - I intended to say that knowing human nature to be what it is - it is logical to expect a small number of people to react to the killing of their people by seeking revenge.

    I am now watching what is happening in Munich Germany. How many more Muslim groups of people are going to be attacked because of these murders in Munich? The cycle of death after death after death must end. Someone has to stop the cycle of killing.

    In our world the Western nations are the authorities, the leaders – they are the top dogs. In rational social settings it is the grownups who have the responsibility to stop fights.

    We in the West have to stop attacking Muslims – we have to take the responsibility to stop the cycle of violence – it is our job – period – end of story.

    Good Western people must demand a moratorium on all this killing by ALL governments.

    Art
  97. Parbes says:
    @Wizard of Oz
    For someone who thinks so well of himself and his brain that he can toss in idiot and other such insults your failure to notice my word "implicitly" is pretty dismal. I happen to think the crook Putin's objectives and character are marginally less dangerous to civilisation than those of Erdogan apart from population size differences and that Russia should have been engaged positively in Syria long ago...

    You didn’t use the word “implicitly”, idiot. Here is your exact quote:

    “But you make me wonder how you can put Putin on a pedestal by implication.”

    I think what is really “pretty dismal”, is your inability to quote your own post in the same thread correctly. For someone claiming to be non-idiotic, that’s kind of like shooting yourself in the foot, eh, neocon dork boy?

    The rest of your post is just repetition of the same tired idiotic neocon propaganda tropes devoid of any real logic or sense, demonizing Putin, asserting false equivalency between Putin and Erdogan etc. Hardly worth wasting any time on. But this part is a real gem, though:

    “Russia should have been engaged positively in Syria long ago…”

    Russia IS engaged positively in Syria, idiot – trying to help the legitimate secular Syrian government and people against the hordes of jihadis you Anglo-Zionist kooks unleashed on them together with your buddies Erdogan and Saudis.

    MORON NEOCON!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    1. is there a difference in meaning between my saying "implicitly" and what I originally wrote "by implication"? If not what's your point?

    2. Do you so lack imagination and insight into yourself that you could not see that the reason i didn't go back and check ipsissima verba was that helping you to see where you had gone wrong was such a trivial matter that spending more time on it was not justified, even if one doesn't factor in the complication of the whole interaction being conducted on a smartphone screen with one thumb.
    3. You are obviously not a lawyer or academic philosopher, unless a failed one, because your way with words is such that it is tedious and unrewarding to engage. For one example your use of the word idiot is just broad brush insult and totally inappropriate to what at worst was a minor deficiency of care in proof reading or self-editing. Now you show both lack of care and lack of understanding and imagination in assuming for some reason to be found in your brain that I was writing in favour of Russia engaging in Syria, which it obviously had done, rather than supporting the view that the US should have engaged with Russia over Syrian matters.

    Could it be that you have an absurdly inflated idea of your intelligence and level of intellectual performance which allows you to assume lightly, without evidence or even examining the evidence, that others are prima facie very unintelligent and/or intellectually sloppy (which is what you are on the evidence of your posts)?

    I am equally inclined to believe that you are exhibiting a variant of Gilles de la Tourette's Syndrome [in case you are rushing to Google it...I haven't bothered to check the spelling]. Instead of the commoner obscenities your nervous tic produces streams of "idiot", "moron" etc.

  98. What about the will of the people of Syria? Ruled by a demonic minority heterodoxy and armed and supported by Iran and Russia.
    What about the religious cleansing of the non-Shia from Baghdad and the no representative regime appointed by the US in cohorts with the sectarian regime in Iran?

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  99. @empty
    is this just baseless rumors:

    TEHRAN (FNA)- Arab media outlets quoted diplomats in Ankara as disclosing that Turkey's President Erdogan was alerted by Russia against an imminent army coup hours before it was initiated on Friday, while a western media outlet said Erdogan asked his supporters to remain in the streets after receiving advice from Tehran.

     

    http://en.farsnews.com/newstext.aspx?nn=13950430001452

    Usual Iranian propaganda and after the fact, to demonize its enemies. The Shia are trained from childhood in propaganda, they have been doing it for 1300 years.

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  100. @Wizard of Oz
    Don't you think Rehmat is a syndicate operationunder the loose control of a Canadian Pakistani but allowing much too free a rein to students and other unemployed youth - probably in Pakistani universities - to whom much comment is outsourced. That would explain why some of it reads like irresponsible mischief and exageration and some like actual subversion of Rehmat through being outrageously stupid or fast and loose with facts.

    It appears Rahmat is a generic name and represents some intelligence agency, he/she is present on many such sites, probably Iranian.

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  101. @Anonymous
    The Turks should decide the fate of Turkey. They should not decide the fate of Syria. * google mail

    Nor should Hizbullah, Shia mercenaries from Pakistan and Afghanistan, Iran, US or Russia. If any neighbor has an interest for peace and containment of PKK/YPG Marxist-nationalist totalitarians , it is Turkey.

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  102. Rurik says:

    What about the will of the people of Syria? Ruled by a demonic minority heterodoxy and armed and supported by Iran and Russia.

    the people of Syria voted overwhelmingly to retain Assad

    https://www.rt.com/news/163696-assad-win-president-syria/

    I guess you figure they’re better off with the stone age head slicers and Christian crucifiers and little girls sexual enslavers and rapists, huh?

    who like to burn people alive, among other charming penchants

    hard to imagine why the people of Syria would prefer that man in the picture with his wife over your heroes:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3216937/Chained-upside-forced-watch-petrol-licked-way-engulfing-flames-ISIS-video-shows-four-Iraqi-Shia-prisoners-burnt-alive.html

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Dear Rurik,

    While I'm very, very skeptical of a near 90% vote for Mr. Assad (who the hell would be running against him during a time of open civil war) - I'll take it for what it is worth that many Syrians opt for him rather than the alternative. However, 'demonic' is not a bad way to describe how the Syrian police state has been running for decades - truly, ask any run of the mill Syrian - there is a large community near Bridgeview where I can interact with them. They are rightly appalled at Daesh but all of them want Assad out (eventually). In this case, this is the choice the Syrian people are being asked to make; do you want to get kicked in the groin or kicked in the backside?

    May God bless and preserve you and the people of Syria.
  103. Talha says:
    @Rurik

    What about the will of the people of Syria? Ruled by a demonic minority heterodoxy and armed and supported by Iran and Russia.
     
    the people of Syria voted overwhelmingly to retain Assad

    https://www.rt.com/news/163696-assad-win-president-syria/

    I guess you figure they're better off with the stone age head slicers and Christian crucifiers and little girls sexual enslavers and rapists, huh?

    who like to burn people alive, among other charming penchants

    hard to imagine why the people of Syria would prefer that man in the picture with his wife over your heroes:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3216937/Chained-upside-forced-watch-petrol-licked-way-engulfing-flames-ISIS-video-shows-four-Iraqi-Shia-prisoners-burnt-alive.html

    Dear Rurik,

    While I’m very, very skeptical of a near 90% vote for Mr. Assad (who the hell would be running against him during a time of open civil war) – I’ll take it for what it is worth that many Syrians opt for him rather than the alternative. However, ‘demonic’ is not a bad way to describe how the Syrian police state has been running for decades – truly, ask any run of the mill Syrian – there is a large community near Bridgeview where I can interact with them. They are rightly appalled at Daesh but all of them want Assad out (eventually). In this case, this is the choice the Syrian people are being asked to make; do you want to get kicked in the groin or kicked in the backside?

    May God bless and preserve you and the people of Syria.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rurik
    Dear Talha,

    However, ‘demonic’ is not a bad way to describe how the Syrian police state has been running for decades
     
    I remember a little while ago being chastised at this space for saying some negative things about Assad. It is my impression that Vlad Putin does not like the guy very much. From what I understand, he made his torture chambers available to the CIA after 911, and I'll never forget his smug, smiling mug when Gadhafi was trying to edify a group of Muslims as to the nature of the Zio-Fiend- who they all ought to have been opposed to. Mentioning that any one of them could be the next Saddam to by lynched by that singular shaitan on the world's stage.

    Here it is:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6syr1tjbgA

    so it's not like I'm under any delusions that Assad is a boy scout. Hardly.

    But looking at the beyond-monstrous things that his enemies are doing.. seeing the nature of the men who threaten his rule and his nation, I can't help but wonder if sometimes the adage about the 'the devil you know' applies, and that it's probably necessary to use stringent means to defeat that kind of stone age savagery ISIS clearly represents, no?

    I have no problem with the Syrian people wanting to remove Assad once the Zio-threat (and their savage ISIS dogs) has been quelled. But to remove Assad before his nation has been returned to sovereignty, would only be playing into the scheme of the Zio-Fiend. And that has been the lot of the Muslim countries for far too long, if you ask me.

    They need to stop hating each other for just as much time as it takes to boot out all the Anglo-Zionists and their stooges like the House of Saud. And then once they're free, then can start cutting each other's throats and setting their POWs on fire, if that's what consoles them, I guess.

    It's not my part of the world, and I don't want to presume. But what I do know, is that the Fiend has my government under it's domination, and intends nothing less for Syria. And if Asssad falls, then his country is going to be ripped apart, (think Iraq, Libya) and enslaved by a Rothschild central bank, and a thousand other plagues and curses to bedevil them for generations to come. If they think they're going to have freedom and peace and self-determination under the "moderate" rebels, supported by the ZIonsist, no one could be that dumb, no?

    At least that's how it looks like to me.

    Its kind of like Hillary vs. Trump. Trump is far from perfect to be sure. But Hillary would mean the end of our Republic and horrors unimaginable, both in the West and in the Islamic world. The stakes are high, and the choice is stark. For me, that makes it easy.

    When comparing Assad to ISIS, I'd think that at least until ISIS is given the Carthage treatment, that suffering Assad can't be that bad.

    May the Gods grant us all peace and freedom from all demons, both human and otherwise
    , @Krollchem
    System dynamics teaches us to look at root causes. In the case of Syria it is instructive to search the web on articles that shed light on on environmental problems that serve as triggers to conflict that can be used to create conflict by external actors (e.g. CIA). Some basic system problems in Syria include:
    (1) costs of supporting refugees from the US war in Iraq;
    (2) failure of Syrian government to support modern irrigation practices to conserve water;
    (3) Turkey's mega projects to divert water for irrigated cash crops in Southern Turkey (e.g. cotton);
    (4) Crippling drought in Syria from 2008-2011 causing failure of main crops and ultimately farm animals;
    (5) Soil salinity issues from thousands of years of soil depletion and poor irrigation practices;
    (6) demographic pressures from high birth rates in most Muslim countries.

    There are tons of articles on these topics on the web. It is a shame that no one is connecting the dots behind ME conflicts...
    , @L.K
    Talha,
    with all due respect, you have no idea what you are talking about.

    The fact that some Syrians near where u live in ZUSA, supposedly want Assad out means nothing, even if true.

    For example, there are plenty of Iranians who live in Zamerica who want the current system in Iran overthrown, BUT it does not mean that most Iranians at home desire this outcome.

    Re Syrians, I know several who are Christians and they all want Assad to STAY.

    Also, there are plenty of vids, from many Western countries, showing Syrians demonstrating in favor of their government.

    For example, in Australia:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxZUUfMq1Io

    Is the Syrian government perfect? Obviously not. Still, it is a secular and progressive system and Syria was certainly one of the more free of the Arab speaking countries.

    This is the sort of thing they don't show us in the West:
    Pro Assad Rally Damascus, Syria, 2013
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsDP8S3ry1A

    Look, if the majority of Syrians wanted Assad out, given the enormous support given by Zusa's criminal coalition, fighters from some 90 different countries, Assad would be gone a long time ago. I mean, it is fucking obvious.
    Not long ago, some US senate commission put the foreign "rebels" at nearly 40,000!

    Clearly you don't understant the enormity of the crime that has been perpetrated against Syria and the geopolitics involved.

    No, Talha, this is not a civil war.

    Ex-Marine Brad Hoff, who spent time in Syria, had this to say about life in Syria b4 the war:
    https://medium.com/news-politics/a-marine-in-syria-d06ff67c203c#.7uii9tsvq

    Moon of Alabama did a good job of explaining the reasons for the war;
    http://www.moonofalabama.org/2013/09/a-short-history-of-the-war-on-syria-2006-2014.html

    Transcript of interview with US Virginia State senator, Richard Black, who has been to Syria, about the war:
    “We Have Never Done Anything More Loathsome or Despicable Than What We’re Doing in Syria.”
    http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=136232

    Oh, and about those supposed 'peaceful' initial demonstrations in 2011, even Robert Fisk admitted that there were al-ciada goons amongst them from the very start.

    Homs, Syria, 2011: Police getting shot at by "peaceful" demonstrators with AKs, 1 officer killed.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiMwqm2H8TU

    Now, obviously, Syrians who r Muslim Brotherhood or Salafists/Waahabis, or those who desire Syria to become another US puppet, yes, those want Assad gone and the State destroyed.

    Take care.
    , @5371
    Recent events have shown pretty conclusively that there were a lot of people in Syria who needed watching.
  104. Rurik says:
    @Talha
    Dear Rurik,

    While I'm very, very skeptical of a near 90% vote for Mr. Assad (who the hell would be running against him during a time of open civil war) - I'll take it for what it is worth that many Syrians opt for him rather than the alternative. However, 'demonic' is not a bad way to describe how the Syrian police state has been running for decades - truly, ask any run of the mill Syrian - there is a large community near Bridgeview where I can interact with them. They are rightly appalled at Daesh but all of them want Assad out (eventually). In this case, this is the choice the Syrian people are being asked to make; do you want to get kicked in the groin or kicked in the backside?

    May God bless and preserve you and the people of Syria.

    Dear Talha,

    However, ‘demonic’ is not a bad way to describe how the Syrian police state has been running for decades

    I remember a little while ago being chastised at this space for saying some negative things about Assad. It is my impression that Vlad Putin does not like the guy very much. From what I understand, he made his torture chambers available to the CIA after 911, and I’ll never forget his smug, smiling mug when Gadhafi was trying to edify a group of Muslims as to the nature of the Zio-Fiend- who they all ought to have been opposed to. Mentioning that any one of them could be the next Saddam to by lynched by that singular shaitan on the world’s stage.

    Here it is:

    so it’s not like I’m under any delusions that Assad is a boy scout. Hardly.

    But looking at the beyond-monstrous things that his enemies are doing.. seeing the nature of the men who threaten his rule and his nation, I can’t help but wonder if sometimes the adage about the ‘the devil you know’ applies, and that it’s probably necessary to use stringent means to defeat that kind of stone age savagery ISIS clearly represents, no?

    I have no problem with the Syrian people wanting to remove Assad once the Zio-threat (and their savage ISIS dogs) has been quelled. But to remove Assad before his nation has been returned to sovereignty, would only be playing into the scheme of the Zio-Fiend. And that has been the lot of the Muslim countries for far too long, if you ask me.

    They need to stop hating each other for just as much time as it takes to boot out all the Anglo-Zionists and their stooges like the House of Saud. And then once they’re free, then can start cutting each other’s throats and setting their POWs on fire, if that’s what consoles them, I guess.

    It’s not my part of the world, and I don’t want to presume. But what I do know, is that the Fiend has my government under it’s domination, and intends nothing less for Syria. And if Asssad falls, then his country is going to be ripped apart, (think Iraq, Libya) and enslaved by a Rothschild central bank, and a thousand other plagues and curses to bedevil them for generations to come. If they think they’re going to have freedom and peace and self-determination under the “moderate” rebels, supported by the ZIonsist, no one could be that dumb, no?

    At least that’s how it looks like to me.

    Its kind of like Hillary vs. Trump. Trump is far from perfect to be sure. But Hillary would mean the end of our Republic and horrors unimaginable, both in the West and in the Islamic world. The stakes are high, and the choice is stark. For me, that makes it easy.

    When comparing Assad to ISIS, I’d think that at least until ISIS is given the Carthage treatment, that suffering Assad can’t be that bad.

    May the Gods grant us all peace and freedom from all demons, both human and otherwise

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Dear Rurik,

    I doubt you think any leader in the Middle East is a boy scout (other sure sound like they do), I was just pointing out the nuances because some people get caught up in the rhetoric.


    But to remove Assad before his nation has been returned to sovereignty, would only be playing into the scheme of the Zio-Fiend.
     
    I hate to say it, but this may indeed be the bitter truth. His regime is vile, Daesh is vile 2.0.

    the adage about the ‘the devil you know’ applies
     
    This seems to indeed be the call of the day, sign of the times, etc. as you have pointed out.

    As a Muslim scholar pointed out, the Libyans called for the ousting of King Idris (ra) who was not perfect, but was a generally good leader. Their slogan was (in Arabic), "Even Iblis [the Devil], but not Idris!" Then they got Ghaddafi, then they ousted him, and now the country is overrun with many Iblis.

    May God indeed protect us from the demons.

  105. Talha says:
    @Rurik
    Dear Talha,

    However, ‘demonic’ is not a bad way to describe how the Syrian police state has been running for decades
     
    I remember a little while ago being chastised at this space for saying some negative things about Assad. It is my impression that Vlad Putin does not like the guy very much. From what I understand, he made his torture chambers available to the CIA after 911, and I'll never forget his smug, smiling mug when Gadhafi was trying to edify a group of Muslims as to the nature of the Zio-Fiend- who they all ought to have been opposed to. Mentioning that any one of them could be the next Saddam to by lynched by that singular shaitan on the world's stage.

    Here it is:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6syr1tjbgA

    so it's not like I'm under any delusions that Assad is a boy scout. Hardly.

    But looking at the beyond-monstrous things that his enemies are doing.. seeing the nature of the men who threaten his rule and his nation, I can't help but wonder if sometimes the adage about the 'the devil you know' applies, and that it's probably necessary to use stringent means to defeat that kind of stone age savagery ISIS clearly represents, no?

    I have no problem with the Syrian people wanting to remove Assad once the Zio-threat (and their savage ISIS dogs) has been quelled. But to remove Assad before his nation has been returned to sovereignty, would only be playing into the scheme of the Zio-Fiend. And that has been the lot of the Muslim countries for far too long, if you ask me.

    They need to stop hating each other for just as much time as it takes to boot out all the Anglo-Zionists and their stooges like the House of Saud. And then once they're free, then can start cutting each other's throats and setting their POWs on fire, if that's what consoles them, I guess.

    It's not my part of the world, and I don't want to presume. But what I do know, is that the Fiend has my government under it's domination, and intends nothing less for Syria. And if Asssad falls, then his country is going to be ripped apart, (think Iraq, Libya) and enslaved by a Rothschild central bank, and a thousand other plagues and curses to bedevil them for generations to come. If they think they're going to have freedom and peace and self-determination under the "moderate" rebels, supported by the ZIonsist, no one could be that dumb, no?

    At least that's how it looks like to me.

    Its kind of like Hillary vs. Trump. Trump is far from perfect to be sure. But Hillary would mean the end of our Republic and horrors unimaginable, both in the West and in the Islamic world. The stakes are high, and the choice is stark. For me, that makes it easy.

    When comparing Assad to ISIS, I'd think that at least until ISIS is given the Carthage treatment, that suffering Assad can't be that bad.

    May the Gods grant us all peace and freedom from all demons, both human and otherwise

    Dear Rurik,

    I doubt you think any leader in the Middle East is a boy scout (other sure sound like they do), I was just pointing out the nuances because some people get caught up in the rhetoric.

    But to remove Assad before his nation has been returned to sovereignty, would only be playing into the scheme of the Zio-Fiend.

    I hate to say it, but this may indeed be the bitter truth. His regime is vile, Daesh is vile 2.0.

    the adage about the ‘the devil you know’ applies

    This seems to indeed be the call of the day, sign of the times, etc. as you have pointed out.

    As a Muslim scholar pointed out, the Libyans called for the ousting of King Idris (ra) who was not perfect, but was a generally good leader. Their slogan was (in Arabic), “Even Iblis [the Devil], but not Idris!” Then they got Ghaddafi, then they ousted him, and now the country is overrun with many Iblis.

    May God indeed protect us from the demons.

    Read More
  106. Art says:
    @Talha
    Dear Art,

    I understand the sentiment. I know that a lot of Muslims are very angry and have a right to be that many of their cities look like mini-Stalingrads and that they have been chased out of their homes and their relatives killed. HOWEVER, that will never justify attacking innocents or people you have a covenant of protection with:
    "The ruling about the non-Muslims at war [with a Muslim state] as mentioned above, because they protect the Muslims [in their territory], is that it would not be permissible for the Muslims [living there] to murder them or to steal from them." Fatwa of the great 12th century Shafi'i Jurist, Imam al-Kurdi (ra)
    http://www.livingislam.org/maa/dcmm_e.html

    One cannot claim to defend or avenge Muslims and then break a load of Islamic injunctions along the way - it will not have favor or support of God even if materially successful. There are times when God puts one in a situation where one is check-mated and all one can do is pray, bear with patience and do things like set up food/medicine drives to alleviate the suffering. You are a Christian, you know well that trials and tribulations have a place in the rectification and purification and evolution of the souls of men:
    "If God loves a people, then He afflicts them with trials. Whoever is patient has the reward of patience, and whoever is impatient has the fault of impatience." - Reported in Musnad Ahmed

    I hope this makes sense and may God bless you for standing for the oppressed.

    I understand the sentiment. I know that a lot of Muslims are very angry and have a right to be that many of their cities look like mini-Stalingrads and that they have been chased out of their homes and their relatives killed. HOWEVER, that will never justify attacking innocents or people you have a covenant of protection with

    Talha,

    Two wrongs never ever make a right.

    I did not intend to say that these killers were justified in what they are doing – I intended to say that knowing human nature to be what it is – it is logical to expect a small number of people to react to the killing of their people by seeking revenge.

    I am now watching what is happening in Munich Germany. How many more Muslim groups of people are going to be attacked because of these murders in Munich? The cycle of death after death after death must end. Someone has to stop the cycle of killing.

    In our world the Western nations are the authorities, the leaders – they are the top dogs. In rational social settings it is the grownups who have the responsibility to stop fights.

    We in the West have to stop attacking Muslims – we have to take the responsibility to stop the cycle of violence – it is our job – period – end of story.

    Good Western people must demand a moratorium on all this killing by ALL governments.

    Art

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Right on Art - and we Muslims need to police our own better honestly. Every time a lone-wolf attack happens (I just found out about Munich - may God grant solace and patience to those that lost their loved ones), it is then used by the people in charge to rile up support for more insane policies - because that is also in human nature to want the government to 'do something' to make you feel safe. So it goes both ways. But, I agree, the violence has to stop - we are on a very bad downward spiral. This will not end well...

    Peace.
    , @Astuteobservor II
    If we, the usa, can stop killing in the middle east, I will eat my baseball cap.
  107. Krollchem says:
    @Talha
    Dear Rurik,

    While I'm very, very skeptical of a near 90% vote for Mr. Assad (who the hell would be running against him during a time of open civil war) - I'll take it for what it is worth that many Syrians opt for him rather than the alternative. However, 'demonic' is not a bad way to describe how the Syrian police state has been running for decades - truly, ask any run of the mill Syrian - there is a large community near Bridgeview where I can interact with them. They are rightly appalled at Daesh but all of them want Assad out (eventually). In this case, this is the choice the Syrian people are being asked to make; do you want to get kicked in the groin or kicked in the backside?

    May God bless and preserve you and the people of Syria.

    System dynamics teaches us to look at root causes. In the case of Syria it is instructive to search the web on articles that shed light on on environmental problems that serve as triggers to conflict that can be used to create conflict by external actors (e.g. CIA). Some basic system problems in Syria include:
    (1) costs of supporting refugees from the US war in Iraq;
    (2) failure of Syrian government to support modern irrigation practices to conserve water;
    (3) Turkey’s mega projects to divert water for irrigated cash crops in Southern Turkey (e.g. cotton);
    (4) Crippling drought in Syria from 2008-2011 causing failure of main crops and ultimately farm animals;
    (5) Soil salinity issues from thousands of years of soil depletion and poor irrigation practices;
    (6) demographic pressures from high birth rates in most Muslim countries.

    There are tons of articles on these topics on the web. It is a shame that no one is connecting the dots behind ME conflicts…

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Dear KC - very good points - thanks for the input.
  108. Talha says:
    @Krollchem
    System dynamics teaches us to look at root causes. In the case of Syria it is instructive to search the web on articles that shed light on on environmental problems that serve as triggers to conflict that can be used to create conflict by external actors (e.g. CIA). Some basic system problems in Syria include:
    (1) costs of supporting refugees from the US war in Iraq;
    (2) failure of Syrian government to support modern irrigation practices to conserve water;
    (3) Turkey's mega projects to divert water for irrigated cash crops in Southern Turkey (e.g. cotton);
    (4) Crippling drought in Syria from 2008-2011 causing failure of main crops and ultimately farm animals;
    (5) Soil salinity issues from thousands of years of soil depletion and poor irrigation practices;
    (6) demographic pressures from high birth rates in most Muslim countries.

    There are tons of articles on these topics on the web. It is a shame that no one is connecting the dots behind ME conflicts...

    Dear KC – very good points – thanks for the input.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Krollchem
    Your welcome. So seldom do I converse with those who can understand and appreciate the big picture.
  109. Talha says:
    @Art

    I understand the sentiment. I know that a lot of Muslims are very angry and have a right to be that many of their cities look like mini-Stalingrads and that they have been chased out of their homes and their relatives killed. HOWEVER, that will never justify attacking innocents or people you have a covenant of protection with
     
    Talha,

    Two wrongs never ever make a right.

    I did not intend to say that these killers were justified in what they are doing - I intended to say that knowing human nature to be what it is - it is logical to expect a small number of people to react to the killing of their people by seeking revenge.

    I am now watching what is happening in Munich Germany. How many more Muslim groups of people are going to be attacked because of these murders in Munich? The cycle of death after death after death must end. Someone has to stop the cycle of killing.

    In our world the Western nations are the authorities, the leaders – they are the top dogs. In rational social settings it is the grownups who have the responsibility to stop fights.

    We in the West have to stop attacking Muslims – we have to take the responsibility to stop the cycle of violence – it is our job – period – end of story.

    Good Western people must demand a moratorium on all this killing by ALL governments.

    Art

    Right on Art – and we Muslims need to police our own better honestly. Every time a lone-wolf attack happens (I just found out about Munich – may God grant solace and patience to those that lost their loved ones), it is then used by the people in charge to rile up support for more insane policies – because that is also in human nature to want the government to ‘do something’ to make you feel safe. So it goes both ways. But, I agree, the violence has to stop – we are on a very bad downward spiral. This will not end well…

    Peace.

    Read More
  110. L.K says:
    @Talha
    Dear Rurik,

    While I'm very, very skeptical of a near 90% vote for Mr. Assad (who the hell would be running against him during a time of open civil war) - I'll take it for what it is worth that many Syrians opt for him rather than the alternative. However, 'demonic' is not a bad way to describe how the Syrian police state has been running for decades - truly, ask any run of the mill Syrian - there is a large community near Bridgeview where I can interact with them. They are rightly appalled at Daesh but all of them want Assad out (eventually). In this case, this is the choice the Syrian people are being asked to make; do you want to get kicked in the groin or kicked in the backside?

    May God bless and preserve you and the people of Syria.

    Talha,
    with all due respect, you have no idea what you are talking about.

    The fact that some Syrians near where u live in ZUSA, supposedly want Assad out means nothing, even if true.

    For example, there are plenty of Iranians who live in Zamerica who want the current system in Iran overthrown, BUT it does not mean that most Iranians at home desire this outcome.

    Re Syrians, I know several who are Christians and they all want Assad to STAY.

    Also, there are plenty of vids, from many Western countries, showing Syrians demonstrating in favor of their government.

    For example, in Australia:

    Is the Syrian government perfect? Obviously not. Still, it is a secular and progressive system and Syria was certainly one of the more free of the Arab speaking countries.

    This is the sort of thing they don’t show us in the West:
    Pro Assad Rally Damascus, Syria, 2013

    Look, if the majority of Syrians wanted Assad out, given the enormous support given by Zusa’s criminal coalition, fighters from some 90 different countries, Assad would be gone a long time ago. I mean, it is fucking obvious.
    Not long ago, some US senate commission put the foreign “rebels” at nearly 40,000!

    Clearly you don’t understant the enormity of the crime that has been perpetrated against Syria and the geopolitics involved.

    No, Talha, this is not a civil war.

    Ex-Marine Brad Hoff, who spent time in Syria, had this to say about life in Syria b4 the war:

    https://medium.com/news-politics/a-marine-in-syria-d06ff67c203c#.7uii9tsvq

    Moon of Alabama did a good job of explaining the reasons for the war;

    http://www.moonofalabama.org/2013/09/a-short-history-of-the-war-on-syria-2006-2014.html

    Transcript of interview with US Virginia State senator, Richard Black, who has been to Syria, about the war:
    “We Have Never Done Anything More Loathsome or Despicable Than What We’re Doing in Syria.”

    http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=136232

    Oh, and about those supposed ‘peaceful’ initial demonstrations in 2011, even Robert Fisk admitted that there were al-ciada goons amongst them from the very start.

    Homs, Syria, 2011: Police getting shot at by “peaceful” demonstrators with AKs, 1 officer killed.

    Now, obviously, Syrians who r Muslim Brotherhood or Salafists/Waahabis, or those who desire Syria to become another US puppet, yes, those want Assad gone and the State destroyed.

    Take care.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey L.K.,

    I actually agree with a lot of what you are saying, but I don't believe it's as simply Manichean as that.


    there are plenty of Iranians who live in Zamerica who want the current system in Iran overthrown
     
    Good point.

    I know several who are Christians and they all want Assad to STAY

     

    Certainly, the Baathists were a Christian founded movement. It has always had strong support from Christians primarily because they were wary about a nightmare scenario of being oppressed by the Muslim-majority (a fear that Daesh are happily obliging).

    No, Talha, this is not a civil war.
     
    I agree it is not now a civil war - it is mostly a proxy war between the regional powers (as well as US, France, etc.) However, as I told another person on a separate thread; it was definitely a rebellion in the beginning – very native and local in nature. Protests were generally peaceful (though I'm certain CIA had infiltrated them - hell, they even infiltrated the volunteer human shields that tried to stop the Iraq War - remember?) and it was against a repressive police state which tortures - look, any neutral NGO will attest to this and has for decades. The mukhabarat was feared even in the States - you could make a comment against the regime and they would pick you up at the airport in Damascus when you came for a visit. One of the things that set the local people off was the torture and mutilation of a child – (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/may/31/syria-unrest-teenage-victim-hamza).

    The article you cite by Brad Hoff states the following:
    "The government seemed to leave people alone in areas of religion, social behavior, family life, and work pursuits; but political dissent was not tolerated, and Syrians seemed to accept this as a difficult fact of life. The average working class Syrian was resigned to accept the government promise of security and stability in exchange for limitations upon personal political freedoms." That is exactly my point - any political dissent is quashed, people disappear - some are OK with this and some are genuinely not.


    Syrians who r Muslim Brotherhood or Salafists/Waahabis, or those who desire Syria to become another US puppet, yes, those want Assad gone and the State destroyed
     
    Not true - I have known some of these Syrians for decades - most find Wahhabism deplorable. Syria is a very traditional Sunni Muslim country and probably the least Salafi/Wahhabi of all of the Middle East; before the war my teachers would only allow us to learn Islamic knowledge in Syria and no other Arab country due to the influence of Salafism/Wahhabism. Shaykh Muhammad Yaqoubi (ra) was the first scholar to speak up against the regime and be exiled.
    http://www.joshualandis.com/blog/sheikh-muhammad-al-yaqoubi-interviewed-by-syria-comment/
    His Sunni Orthodox (and Sufi) credentials are impeccable; he is a teacher of my best friend and one of my spiritual mentors. He is also the scholar who has wrote a refutation of Daesh (http://www.refutingisis.com/) and signed a fatwa that declared it obligatory to fight them. But there is no doubt that within the Sunni majority the country is split, since the unofficial Grand Mufti of Syria, and one of the greatest contemporary Muslim scholars of the world, the late Shaykh Ramadan Bouti (may God raise his rank) sided with the regime early on, yet gave a fatwa that killing protesters was prohibited (which shows he knew the sanguinary nature of the regime):
    http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/2013/03/22/-Sheikh-al-Bouti-the-Syrian-Sunni-cleric-who-stood-by-Assad.html
    He paid for this stance with his life (but it is obvious from the article and the words of his daughter that the support is from a pragmatic and reluctant point of view):
    http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/2013/03/201332414592444794.html

    And many people indeed support Assad now, simply because they know the alternative. However, it is just not as simple as it being a Zionist/US conspiracy (though they are definitely knee-deep in it and perpetuating the misery).

    Peace.

  111. @Art

    I understand the sentiment. I know that a lot of Muslims are very angry and have a right to be that many of their cities look like mini-Stalingrads and that they have been chased out of their homes and their relatives killed. HOWEVER, that will never justify attacking innocents or people you have a covenant of protection with
     
    Talha,

    Two wrongs never ever make a right.

    I did not intend to say that these killers were justified in what they are doing - I intended to say that knowing human nature to be what it is - it is logical to expect a small number of people to react to the killing of their people by seeking revenge.

    I am now watching what is happening in Munich Germany. How many more Muslim groups of people are going to be attacked because of these murders in Munich? The cycle of death after death after death must end. Someone has to stop the cycle of killing.

    In our world the Western nations are the authorities, the leaders – they are the top dogs. In rational social settings it is the grownups who have the responsibility to stop fights.

    We in the West have to stop attacking Muslims – we have to take the responsibility to stop the cycle of violence – it is our job – period – end of story.

    Good Western people must demand a moratorium on all this killing by ALL governments.

    Art

    If we, the usa, can stop killing in the middle east, I will eat my baseball cap.

    Read More
  112. Talha says:
    @L.K
    Talha,
    with all due respect, you have no idea what you are talking about.

    The fact that some Syrians near where u live in ZUSA, supposedly want Assad out means nothing, even if true.

    For example, there are plenty of Iranians who live in Zamerica who want the current system in Iran overthrown, BUT it does not mean that most Iranians at home desire this outcome.

    Re Syrians, I know several who are Christians and they all want Assad to STAY.

    Also, there are plenty of vids, from many Western countries, showing Syrians demonstrating in favor of their government.

    For example, in Australia:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxZUUfMq1Io

    Is the Syrian government perfect? Obviously not. Still, it is a secular and progressive system and Syria was certainly one of the more free of the Arab speaking countries.

    This is the sort of thing they don't show us in the West:
    Pro Assad Rally Damascus, Syria, 2013
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsDP8S3ry1A

    Look, if the majority of Syrians wanted Assad out, given the enormous support given by Zusa's criminal coalition, fighters from some 90 different countries, Assad would be gone a long time ago. I mean, it is fucking obvious.
    Not long ago, some US senate commission put the foreign "rebels" at nearly 40,000!

    Clearly you don't understant the enormity of the crime that has been perpetrated against Syria and the geopolitics involved.

    No, Talha, this is not a civil war.

    Ex-Marine Brad Hoff, who spent time in Syria, had this to say about life in Syria b4 the war:
    https://medium.com/news-politics/a-marine-in-syria-d06ff67c203c#.7uii9tsvq

    Moon of Alabama did a good job of explaining the reasons for the war;
    http://www.moonofalabama.org/2013/09/a-short-history-of-the-war-on-syria-2006-2014.html

    Transcript of interview with US Virginia State senator, Richard Black, who has been to Syria, about the war:
    “We Have Never Done Anything More Loathsome or Despicable Than What We’re Doing in Syria.”
    http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=136232

    Oh, and about those supposed 'peaceful' initial demonstrations in 2011, even Robert Fisk admitted that there were al-ciada goons amongst them from the very start.

    Homs, Syria, 2011: Police getting shot at by "peaceful" demonstrators with AKs, 1 officer killed.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiMwqm2H8TU

    Now, obviously, Syrians who r Muslim Brotherhood or Salafists/Waahabis, or those who desire Syria to become another US puppet, yes, those want Assad gone and the State destroyed.

    Take care.

    Hey L.K.,

    I actually agree with a lot of what you are saying, but I don’t believe it’s as simply Manichean as that.

    there are plenty of Iranians who live in Zamerica who want the current system in Iran overthrown

    Good point.

    I know several who are Christians and they all want Assad to STAY

    Certainly, the Baathists were a Christian founded movement. It has always had strong support from Christians primarily because they were wary about a nightmare scenario of being oppressed by the Muslim-majority (a fear that Daesh are happily obliging).

    No, Talha, this is not a civil war.

    I agree it is not now a civil war – it is mostly a proxy war between the regional powers (as well as US, France, etc.) However, as I told another person on a separate thread; it was definitely a rebellion in the beginning – very native and local in nature. Protests were generally peaceful (though I’m certain CIA had infiltrated them – hell, they even infiltrated the volunteer human shields that tried to stop the Iraq War – remember?) and it was against a repressive police state which tortures – look, any neutral NGO will attest to this and has for decades. The mukhabarat was feared even in the States – you could make a comment against the regime and they would pick you up at the airport in Damascus when you came for a visit. One of the things that set the local people off was the torture and mutilation of a child – (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/may/31/syria-unrest-teenage-victim-hamza).

    The article you cite by Brad Hoff states the following:
    “The government seemed to leave people alone in areas of religion, social behavior, family life, and work pursuits; but political dissent was not tolerated, and Syrians seemed to accept this as a difficult fact of life. The average working class Syrian was resigned to accept the government promise of security and stability in exchange for limitations upon personal political freedoms.” That is exactly my point – any political dissent is quashed, people disappear – some are OK with this and some are genuinely not.

    Syrians who r Muslim Brotherhood or Salafists/Waahabis, or those who desire Syria to become another US puppet, yes, those want Assad gone and the State destroyed

    Not true – I have known some of these Syrians for decades – most find Wahhabism deplorable. Syria is a very traditional Sunni Muslim country and probably the least Salafi/Wahhabi of all of the Middle East; before the war my teachers would only allow us to learn Islamic knowledge in Syria and no other Arab country due to the influence of Salafism/Wahhabism. Shaykh Muhammad Yaqoubi (ra) was the first scholar to speak up against the regime and be exiled.

    http://www.joshualandis.com/blog/sheikh-muhammad-al-yaqoubi-interviewed-by-syria-comment/

    His Sunni Orthodox (and Sufi) credentials are impeccable; he is a teacher of my best friend and one of my spiritual mentors. He is also the scholar who has wrote a refutation of Daesh (http://www.refutingisis.com/) and signed a fatwa that declared it obligatory to fight them. But there is no doubt that within the Sunni majority the country is split, since the unofficial Grand Mufti of Syria, and one of the greatest contemporary Muslim scholars of the world, the late Shaykh Ramadan Bouti (may God raise his rank) sided with the regime early on, yet gave a fatwa that killing protesters was prohibited (which shows he knew the sanguinary nature of the regime):

    http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/2013/03/22/-Sheikh-al-Bouti-the-Syrian-Sunni-cleric-who-stood-by-Assad.html

    He paid for this stance with his life (but it is obvious from the article and the words of his daughter that the support is from a pragmatic and reluctant point of view):

    http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/2013/03/201332414592444794.html

    And many people indeed support Assad now, simply because they know the alternative. However, it is just not as simple as it being a Zionist/US conspiracy (though they are definitely knee-deep in it and perpetuating the misery).

    Peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Also, this is another fascinating read about the inner debates among the Sunni scholarship (and thus the pulse of a good number of the populace) in Syria in regards to the Syrian uprising (as early as 2011):
    http://www.joshualandis.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/Th-Discourse-of-the-Damascene-Sunni-Ulama-during-the-2011-Revolution.pdf

    I would highly recommend Prof. Joshua Landis' site as an enormous neutral resource for information about Syria. They will get information out that nobody does, whether covering the various militia factions in detail or translating the various 'fatwas' coming out of Daesh and analyzing them.
  113. Talha says:
    @Talha
    Hey L.K.,

    I actually agree with a lot of what you are saying, but I don't believe it's as simply Manichean as that.


    there are plenty of Iranians who live in Zamerica who want the current system in Iran overthrown
     
    Good point.

    I know several who are Christians and they all want Assad to STAY

     

    Certainly, the Baathists were a Christian founded movement. It has always had strong support from Christians primarily because they were wary about a nightmare scenario of being oppressed by the Muslim-majority (a fear that Daesh are happily obliging).

    No, Talha, this is not a civil war.
     
    I agree it is not now a civil war - it is mostly a proxy war between the regional powers (as well as US, France, etc.) However, as I told another person on a separate thread; it was definitely a rebellion in the beginning – very native and local in nature. Protests were generally peaceful (though I'm certain CIA had infiltrated them - hell, they even infiltrated the volunteer human shields that tried to stop the Iraq War - remember?) and it was against a repressive police state which tortures - look, any neutral NGO will attest to this and has for decades. The mukhabarat was feared even in the States - you could make a comment against the regime and they would pick you up at the airport in Damascus when you came for a visit. One of the things that set the local people off was the torture and mutilation of a child – (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/may/31/syria-unrest-teenage-victim-hamza).

    The article you cite by Brad Hoff states the following:
    "The government seemed to leave people alone in areas of religion, social behavior, family life, and work pursuits; but political dissent was not tolerated, and Syrians seemed to accept this as a difficult fact of life. The average working class Syrian was resigned to accept the government promise of security and stability in exchange for limitations upon personal political freedoms." That is exactly my point - any political dissent is quashed, people disappear - some are OK with this and some are genuinely not.


    Syrians who r Muslim Brotherhood or Salafists/Waahabis, or those who desire Syria to become another US puppet, yes, those want Assad gone and the State destroyed
     
    Not true - I have known some of these Syrians for decades - most find Wahhabism deplorable. Syria is a very traditional Sunni Muslim country and probably the least Salafi/Wahhabi of all of the Middle East; before the war my teachers would only allow us to learn Islamic knowledge in Syria and no other Arab country due to the influence of Salafism/Wahhabism. Shaykh Muhammad Yaqoubi (ra) was the first scholar to speak up against the regime and be exiled.
    http://www.joshualandis.com/blog/sheikh-muhammad-al-yaqoubi-interviewed-by-syria-comment/
    His Sunni Orthodox (and Sufi) credentials are impeccable; he is a teacher of my best friend and one of my spiritual mentors. He is also the scholar who has wrote a refutation of Daesh (http://www.refutingisis.com/) and signed a fatwa that declared it obligatory to fight them. But there is no doubt that within the Sunni majority the country is split, since the unofficial Grand Mufti of Syria, and one of the greatest contemporary Muslim scholars of the world, the late Shaykh Ramadan Bouti (may God raise his rank) sided with the regime early on, yet gave a fatwa that killing protesters was prohibited (which shows he knew the sanguinary nature of the regime):
    http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/2013/03/22/-Sheikh-al-Bouti-the-Syrian-Sunni-cleric-who-stood-by-Assad.html
    He paid for this stance with his life (but it is obvious from the article and the words of his daughter that the support is from a pragmatic and reluctant point of view):
    http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/2013/03/201332414592444794.html

    And many people indeed support Assad now, simply because they know the alternative. However, it is just not as simple as it being a Zionist/US conspiracy (though they are definitely knee-deep in it and perpetuating the misery).

    Peace.

    Also, this is another fascinating read about the inner debates among the Sunni scholarship (and thus the pulse of a good number of the populace) in Syria in regards to the Syrian uprising (as early as 2011):

    http://www.joshualandis.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/Th-Discourse-of-the-Damascene-Sunni-Ulama-during-the-2011-Revolution.pdf

    I would highly recommend Prof. Joshua Landis’ site as an enormous neutral resource for information about Syria. They will get information out that nobody does, whether covering the various militia factions in detail or translating the various ‘fatwas’ coming out of Daesh and analyzing them.

    Read More
    • Replies: @L.K
    @talha

    Prof. Joshua "I married an Alawite" Landis is NOT neutral at all.
    He is a propagandist.
    He has always been biased against the government of Syria, I've watched several interviews featuring him. In the interviews I've seen he never even strongly denounced the US for what it was and is doing to Syria, which is 100% against international law, not that the fucking US cares about it anyway.

    Your other sources are even more ridiculous;
    The Saudi owned Al Arabiya and the Qatari owned Al Jazeera??

    These 2 "countries" have been, from the beginning, at the forefront of funding and recruiting Salafist militants and mercenaries to overthrow the Syrian government, all with US cover.
    Both "news" outlets have produced tons of propaganda. British media is not much better.

    I wrote:
    "Syrians who r Muslim Brotherhood or Salafists/Waahabis, or those who desire Syria to become another US puppet, yes, those want Assad gone and the State destroyed."

    Talha: "Not true"

    Yes, it is true. "Rebels" fighting against the State have ALWAYS been sectarian in nature, Salafi scum. People fighting for political freedom, aka "Democracy", never existed.

    Senator Black: "K: Yes, and you know, I spoke with Lebanon very senior officials, and of course, discussed this with President Assad and with the top leadership of the Syrian parliament. And one of my questions, is why is there war in Syria? We know, this was not a popular uprising. This was a calculated decision by the CIA, MI6, French intelligence, working with the Muslim Brotherhood, Turks, Saudis — an organized plan to topple the government."

    The Senator leaves out the bloody israelis/zionists, but that is predictable.

    Moving on to your "initially largely peaceful, native and local rebellion" thing:

    BLACK: It is so bizarre. And the method that we use, the specific method when we triggered this is interesting. The Arab Spring started with a single suicide, and it is very difficult to conceive that it did not spread without very active covert action. Nothing ever happens in politics, nothing just happens without a push.

    So there actually began to be legitimate demonstrations in Syria as well as across the Middle East. What I found interesting, I talked to several people — I just bumped into them on my trip, and they said, “Oh, I was anti-Assad then.”
    Well, one of them turns out to be my interpreter; he’d been with me for the better part of a week! And one day we’re talking, and he said, “You know,” he said, “I was a demonstrator against President Assad.” And I said, “Oh, that’s interesting. Tell me about it?”

    He said, “Well, we just started. It was during the Arab Spring, and we started holding demonstrations.” Much like, you and I have both probably been involved in demonstrations! But he said, “first, people started showing up with al-Qaeda flags.”

    STEINBERG: Yeah. The black flags.

    BLACK: “Then,” he said, “people started showing up with military weapons.” Now, there is no Second Amendment in Syria, so you don’t just grab a Kalashnikov at the corner drug store.

    STEINBERG: Right. You don’t go to a gun show on Sunday afternoon.

    BLACK: That’s right, you don’t do that. And he said, “The third thing, is they began to preach religious hatred!” And all along the demonstrators would say, “You guys, get out of here, get out of here! This is not what we’re about. We’re just here asking the government for some changes.” And the friction became tougher and tougher, and he said, “My uncle was the head of all the demonstrators” in this large city, and he said, in the seventh month of back and forth with the al-Qaeda people, they murdered him; they killed him.

    And so I asked the same question of the several people I encountered, who had been anti-Assad. Well, they weren’t anti-Assad, they were demonstrators; they weren’t demonstrating against him.

    STEINBERG: Sure. They wanted reforms.

    BLACK: They wanted reforms. You know, I’ve been in demonstrations; I wasn’t demonstrating to bring down the government, I was there for reform.

    And this was news to me, because I knew about this transition, but what was stunning that consistently, — two out of the three said that this transition took place over the span of a single month; the second one said it took place over the span of two months. So within one to two months, what started as demonstrations became an al-Qaeda-led violent, jihadist uprising. And of course, you still had demonstrators struggling to make it a demonstration. But that was how it developed."


    As for the Baath party in Syria, most members are actually Sunnis, just as most of the people in Government and in the military and gov.paramilitaries, are Sunnis.

    Take care
  114. 5371 says:
    @Talha
    Dear Rurik,

    While I'm very, very skeptical of a near 90% vote for Mr. Assad (who the hell would be running against him during a time of open civil war) - I'll take it for what it is worth that many Syrians opt for him rather than the alternative. However, 'demonic' is not a bad way to describe how the Syrian police state has been running for decades - truly, ask any run of the mill Syrian - there is a large community near Bridgeview where I can interact with them. They are rightly appalled at Daesh but all of them want Assad out (eventually). In this case, this is the choice the Syrian people are being asked to make; do you want to get kicked in the groin or kicked in the backside?

    May God bless and preserve you and the people of Syria.

    Recent events have shown pretty conclusively that there were a lot of people in Syria who needed watching.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Watching persons of interest is one thing, disappearing and torturing teenagers for political graffiti is quite another.
    http://www.joshualandis.com/blog/news-round-up-1-june-2011/

    I know Daesh would do the same or worse, but that's not the point I'm making...

    Peace.

  115. @Parbes
    You didn't use the word "implicitly", idiot. Here is your exact quote:

    "But you make me wonder how you can put Putin on a pedestal by implication."

    I think what is really "pretty dismal", is your inability to quote your own post in the same thread correctly. For someone claiming to be non-idiotic, that's kind of like shooting yourself in the foot, eh, neocon dork boy?

    The rest of your post is just repetition of the same tired idiotic neocon propaganda tropes devoid of any real logic or sense, demonizing Putin, asserting false equivalency between Putin and Erdogan etc. Hardly worth wasting any time on. But this part is a real gem, though:

    "Russia should have been engaged positively in Syria long ago…"

    Russia IS engaged positively in Syria, idiot - trying to help the legitimate secular Syrian government and people against the hordes of jihadis you Anglo-Zionist kooks unleashed on them together with your buddies Erdogan and Saudis.

    MORON NEOCON!

    1. is there a difference in meaning between my saying “implicitly” and what I originally wrote “by implication”? If not what’s your point?

    2. Do you so lack imagination and insight into yourself that you could not see that the reason i didn’t go back and check ipsissima verba was that helping you to see where you had gone wrong was such a trivial matter that spending more time on it was not justified, even if one doesn’t factor in the complication of the whole interaction being conducted on a smartphone screen with one thumb.
    3. You are obviously not a lawyer or academic philosopher, unless a failed one, because your way with words is such that it is tedious and unrewarding to engage. For one example your use of the word idiot is just broad brush insult and totally inappropriate to what at worst was a minor deficiency of care in proof reading or self-editing. Now you show both lack of care and lack of understanding and imagination in assuming for some reason to be found in your brain that I was writing in favour of Russia engaging in Syria, which it obviously had done, rather than supporting the view that the US should have engaged with Russia over Syrian matters.

    Could it be that you have an absurdly inflated idea of your intelligence and level of intellectual performance which allows you to assume lightly, without evidence or even examining the evidence, that others are prima facie very unintelligent and/or intellectually sloppy (which is what you are on the evidence of your posts)?

    I am equally inclined to believe that you are exhibiting a variant of Gilles de la Tourette’s Syndrome [in case you are rushing to Google it...I haven't bothered to check the spelling]. Instead of the commoner obscenities your nervous tic produces streams of “idiot”, “moron” etc.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Parbes
    You're nothing but a stupid dreary neocon propagandist, a third-rate sophist, and a boring pedant besides. It's a waste of anyone's time to engage with you. Begone!
    , @NoseytheDuke
    Actually Wiz, you've been referred to as an idiot many times by many people here on this site.

    I think Jonathan Revusky nailed it though when he coined the term (as if especially for you) HIQI, meaning high IQ idiot. It is a compliment to you of sorts and one far greater than most of the comments here that you have received in the past.
  116. Parbes says:
    @Wizard of Oz
    1. is there a difference in meaning between my saying "implicitly" and what I originally wrote "by implication"? If not what's your point?

    2. Do you so lack imagination and insight into yourself that you could not see that the reason i didn't go back and check ipsissima verba was that helping you to see where you had gone wrong was such a trivial matter that spending more time on it was not justified, even if one doesn't factor in the complication of the whole interaction being conducted on a smartphone screen with one thumb.
    3. You are obviously not a lawyer or academic philosopher, unless a failed one, because your way with words is such that it is tedious and unrewarding to engage. For one example your use of the word idiot is just broad brush insult and totally inappropriate to what at worst was a minor deficiency of care in proof reading or self-editing. Now you show both lack of care and lack of understanding and imagination in assuming for some reason to be found in your brain that I was writing in favour of Russia engaging in Syria, which it obviously had done, rather than supporting the view that the US should have engaged with Russia over Syrian matters.

    Could it be that you have an absurdly inflated idea of your intelligence and level of intellectual performance which allows you to assume lightly, without evidence or even examining the evidence, that others are prima facie very unintelligent and/or intellectually sloppy (which is what you are on the evidence of your posts)?

    I am equally inclined to believe that you are exhibiting a variant of Gilles de la Tourette's Syndrome [in case you are rushing to Google it...I haven't bothered to check the spelling]. Instead of the commoner obscenities your nervous tic produces streams of "idiot", "moron" etc.

    You’re nothing but a stupid dreary neocon propagandist, a third-rate sophist, and a boring pedant besides. It’s a waste of anyone’s time to engage with you. Begone!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    At least I have some evidence for my (tentative) inferences about the character of online oddballs. From your (ridiculously over emphatic) style and its looseness with logic and accuracy I infer that you are the mouse that would love to roar but, in the alpha male atmosphere of even the women in your school teachers' common room you are too timid to raise your voice or even voice your ideas to those who will swiftly put you down on past experience.
  117. Talha says:
    @5371
    Recent events have shown pretty conclusively that there were a lot of people in Syria who needed watching.

    Watching persons of interest is one thing, disappearing and torturing teenagers for political graffiti is quite another.

    http://www.joshualandis.com/blog/news-round-up-1-june-2011/

    I know Daesh would do the same or worse, but that’s not the point I’m making…

    Peace.

    Read More
  118. @Parbes
    You're nothing but a stupid dreary neocon propagandist, a third-rate sophist, and a boring pedant besides. It's a waste of anyone's time to engage with you. Begone!

    At least I have some evidence for my (tentative) inferences about the character of online oddballs. From your (ridiculously over emphatic) style and its looseness with logic and accuracy I infer that you are the mouse that would love to roar but, in the alpha male atmosphere of even the women in your school teachers’ common room you are too timid to raise your voice or even voice your ideas to those who will swiftly put you down on past experience.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Parbes
    Yeah man, whatever... but you're still a neocon dork-boy.
    , @Parbes
    And a pretentious projecting idiot too. Now go collect your weekly shekels from Daddy Murdoch, neocon IDIOT!
  119. Parbes says:
    @Wizard of Oz
    At least I have some evidence for my (tentative) inferences about the character of online oddballs. From your (ridiculously over emphatic) style and its looseness with logic and accuracy I infer that you are the mouse that would love to roar but, in the alpha male atmosphere of even the women in your school teachers' common room you are too timid to raise your voice or even voice your ideas to those who will swiftly put you down on past experience.

    Yeah man, whatever… but you’re still a neocon dork-boy.

    Read More
  120. Parbes says:
    @Wizard of Oz
    At least I have some evidence for my (tentative) inferences about the character of online oddballs. From your (ridiculously over emphatic) style and its looseness with logic and accuracy I infer that you are the mouse that would love to roar but, in the alpha male atmosphere of even the women in your school teachers' common room you are too timid to raise your voice or even voice your ideas to those who will swiftly put you down on past experience.

    And a pretentious projecting idiot too. Now go collect your weekly shekels from Daddy Murdoch, neocon IDIOT!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    You should get advice from some calm sensible person about your erupting with insult against someone who wasn't even disagreeing with you, apart from one tentative inference which you misconstrued and went bananas over.
  121. dahoit says:
    @Boris N
    P.S.

    I wrote a few pieces in Russian calling for speedy reconciliation with Turkey and Erdogan; but my usual outlets refused to publish them. So they had to be published in rather marginal media. For freedom of speech, I am afraid, Russia is not better than the US.
     
    It is a bitter irony that a sincere devoted Putinist is not allowed to speak when his opinion does not comply with the party line. It could be a good lesson for them, but Putinists will never understand.

    Saying that the media there is as corrupt as here,is Putinist?
    I bet the ownership there reflects the ownership here,unless Russians are more patriotic than US,and wouldn’t put up with mole traitors.
    Are you the last commie?One of those who find fault with nationalism and the right of self determination,and back elitist scum conspiring to control us all?

    Read More
  122. dahoit says:
    @DaveE
    Brilliant analysis, Mr. Shamir. This is the best I've read, although the reason why all the others suck so badly is no big mystery.

    Between Putin, Trump, Brexit and now THIS..... the Chosenites must be getting more than a little "noivous". Better still, this is first time I can recall where "the elite" are being hauled off to jail, with people in the streets demanding public executions. No end in sight that I'm aware of, either.

    I hope a few Americans are smart enough to realize some great men are showing us the way. And yes, it won't be bloodless, not by any means.

    Some things are worth fighting for, as the people of Byzantium just found out.

    Never followed Trump,don’t watch dumb TV,but I must say that he is one smart cookie,and his election will make him an American great,as he will return our sovereignty from Zion.
    And yes,Zion is in a tizzy,from Europe to America,lies and calumny as they fall all over themselves in demonizing Trump.

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  123. dahoit says:
    @Priss Factor
    Homomaniacal Zionist Millman at American Conservative wants Hillary to totally crush Trump.

    http://www.theamericanconservative.com/millman/kirchicks-coup-fantasies

    These Zio-Globalists. Even as Millman attacks Kirchick, they are on the same page in their anti-Trump hatred. It is really a hatred against white gentile identity and interests.

    Kirchick projects his own sick demented Jewish-Homo Globalist supremacist warmongering on Trump. Of course, it is Trump who wants peace with Russia. It is Trump who wants a less interventionist policy around the world.

    In contrast, Kirchick and his ilk called for overthrow of the democratically elected government in Ukraine. They called for warmongering against Russia and endless provocations along Russian border. They called for sanctions. They called for more wars in Middle East that led to implosion of entire nations(once ruled by secular Arabs) and now overrun with Jihadis.
    Neocon and Zio-Lib warmongering led to all this mess.
    But Jew-Homo Kirchick takes no responsibility. He wants Russia to be totally destroyed cuz it is a model of how a national leader may take some measures to represent national power and honor.
    Kirchick wants a new cold war with Russia, even a hot war to teach a lesson to the world that unity of white gentile leadership and white gentile masses will not be allowed or forgiven.

    Kirchick is only for oligarchic-democracy ruled by Jewish-Homo globalists. When democratic process produces nationalist governments in Hungary and Poland, the likes of Kirchick(and Millman) seethe and bitch like a**holes.

    The real reason why Kirchick hates Trump is because Trump wants more peace in the world, especially with nations like Russia that Jews hate, hate, and hate. Since peace sounds better than war, Kirchick wants to fool us that Trump is the warmonger when it is Shillary who is the crazed warmongering lunatic who is more than willing to destroy Russia at the behest of Jewish and Homo supremacists.

    But of course, neither Kirchick nor Millman has any problem with the unity of Jewish leadership and Jewish masses in Israel.

    These are snakes and weasels.

    American Conservative now prefers warmongering Hillary to Trump who would rather focus on American issues and leave most of the world alone.

    Of course, Trump could be lying. But if he does become a warmonger, it will only be because he is really a stooge of the Zionist globalists.

    If Trump is lying,which I highly doubt,the pushback from voters will be immense,and he will not win a second term,and his legacy will be like that of Obomba,one of complete betrayal of his voters.
    We aren’t going to take it anymore,and there will be riots in the streets,but the complexion will be different,though,and it will be a sign of freedom,not divide and conquer,as the riots vs Trump surely were.
    Notice the lack of protesters in Cleveland?They knew it would help Trump,so the HB and Moveon.org,called off their dogs,only BS few remaining supporters didn’t get the message.
    Those rioters sure helped kill Sanders,right Hillaryous?

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  124. L.K says:
    @Talha
    Also, this is another fascinating read about the inner debates among the Sunni scholarship (and thus the pulse of a good number of the populace) in Syria in regards to the Syrian uprising (as early as 2011):
    http://www.joshualandis.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/Th-Discourse-of-the-Damascene-Sunni-Ulama-during-the-2011-Revolution.pdf

    I would highly recommend Prof. Joshua Landis' site as an enormous neutral resource for information about Syria. They will get information out that nobody does, whether covering the various militia factions in detail or translating the various 'fatwas' coming out of Daesh and analyzing them.

    @talha

    Prof. Joshua “I married an Alawite” Landis is NOT neutral at all.
    He is a propagandist.
    He has always been biased against the government of Syria, I’ve watched several interviews featuring him. In the interviews I’ve seen he never even strongly denounced the US for what it was and is doing to Syria, which is 100% against international law, not that the fucking US cares about it anyway.

    Your other sources are even more ridiculous;
    The Saudi owned Al Arabiya and the Qatari owned Al Jazeera??

    These 2 “countries” have been, from the beginning, at the forefront of funding and recruiting Salafist militants and mercenaries to overthrow the Syrian government, all with US cover.
    Both “news” outlets have produced tons of propaganda. British media is not much better.

    I wrote:
    “Syrians who r Muslim Brotherhood or Salafists/Waahabis, or those who desire Syria to become another US puppet, yes, those want Assad gone and the State destroyed.”

    Talha: “Not true”

    Yes, it is true. “Rebels” fighting against the State have ALWAYS been sectarian in nature, Salafi scum. People fighting for political freedom, aka “Democracy”, never existed.

    Senator Black: “K: Yes, and you know, I spoke with Lebanon very senior officials, and of course, discussed this with President Assad and with the top leadership of the Syrian parliament. And one of my questions, is why is there war in Syria? We know, this was not a popular uprising. This was a calculated decision by the CIA, MI6, French intelligence, working with the Muslim Brotherhood, Turks, Saudis — an organized plan to topple the government.

    [MORE]

    The Senator leaves out the bloody israelis/zionists, but that is predictable.

    Moving on to your “initially largely peaceful, native and local rebellion” thing:

    BLACK: It is so bizarre. And the method that we use, the specific method when we triggered this is interesting. The Arab Spring started with a single suicide, and it is very difficult to conceive that it did not spread without very active covert action. Nothing ever happens in politics, nothing just happens without a push.

    So there actually began to be legitimate demonstrations in Syria as well as across the Middle East. What I found interesting, I talked to several people — I just bumped into them on my trip, and they said, “Oh, I was anti-Assad then.” Well, one of them turns out to be my interpreter; he’d been with me for the better part of a week! And one day we’re talking, and he said, “You know,” he said, “I was a demonstrator against President Assad.” And I said, “Oh, that’s interesting. Tell me about it?”

    He said, “Well, we just started. It was during the Arab Spring, and we started holding demonstrations.” Much like, you and I have both probably been involved in demonstrations! But he said, “first, people started showing up with al-Qaeda flags.”

    STEINBERG: Yeah. The black flags.

    BLACK: “Then,” he said, “people started showing up with military weapons.” Now, there is no Second Amendment in Syria, so you don’t just grab a Kalashnikov at the corner drug store.

    STEINBERG: Right. You don’t go to a gun show on Sunday afternoon.

    BLACK: That’s right, you don’t do that. And he said, “The third thing, is they began to preach religious hatred!” And all along the demonstrators would say, “You guys, get out of here, get out of here! This is not what we’re about. We’re just here asking the government for some changes.” And the friction became tougher and tougher, and he said, “My uncle was the head of all the demonstrators” in this large city, and he said, in the seventh month of back and forth with the al-Qaeda people, they murdered him; they killed him.

    And so I asked the same question of the several people I encountered, who had been anti-Assad. Well, they weren’t anti-Assad, they were demonstrators; they weren’t demonstrating against him.

    STEINBERG: Sure. They wanted reforms.

    BLACK: They wanted reforms. You know, I’ve been in demonstrations; I wasn’t demonstrating to bring down the government, I was there for reform.

    And this was news to me, because I knew about this transition, but what was stunning that consistently, — two out of the three said that this transition took place over the span of a single month; the second one said it took place over the span of two months. So within one to two months, what started as demonstrations became an al-Qaeda-led violent, jihadist uprising. And of course, you still had demonstrators struggling to make it a demonstration. But that was how it developed.”

    As for the Baath party in Syria, most members are actually Sunnis, just as most of the people in Government and in the military and gov.paramilitaries, are Sunnis.

    Take care

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    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey L.K.,

    Again, I agree with a whole lot of what you are saying. I agree, Prof. Landis doesn't like the Assad government, neither do I, nor does Mr. Fisk. Everyone, including you is biased on this matter. I say he is neutral because, despite the way he leans, he allows many voices to be published, including direct interviews with pro-Assad militias. I consider that neutral. I didn't like Saddam's government either, but I marched against the Iraq War in the worldwide demonstrations.

    You are right about al-Arabiya and al-Jazeera, but are you saying that particular article is false about Shaykh Bouti (db)? There are plenty I can point out to from other sources as well on the subject. Here is an article (in Arabic) about how many members of Shaykh Bouti's family have fled into Turkey but were initially prevented (and threatened) by the Syrian government from leaving.
    https://www.zamanalwsl.net/readNews.php?id=37035

    Talha: “Not true”
     

    You are correct in catching me...I should have clarified; they aren't the only ones - as I have clearly shown by the example of Shaykh Yaqoubi (db) who is obviously not the only voice, but a voice of a sizeable segment of the traditional Sunni ulema and population.

    As for the Baath party in Syria, most members are actually Sunnis
     

    Correct, as was the case in Iraq. That does not mean; 1) it wasn't founded by Christians and b) there was not a significant Sunni sentiment against it.

    They wanted reforms. You know, I’ve been in demonstrations; I wasn’t demonstrating to bring down the government, I was there for reform.
     
    Everything you quote from the senator makes sense. The people wanted political reforms - this was a very popular movement across all segments of society and this is how it started. And solid reforms would have made most of the the population happy, but the Syrian government didn't move fast enough on it. At this point there was a divergence from peaceful protests to armed conflict; I have heard credible reports (and believe both occurred) that there were armed provocateurs within the demonstrations as well as that the Syrian Army also did not show restraint (as it saw what was happening in the rest of the Arab world). This kind of thing happened in Egypt where I have read of zero reports of protesters firing on the army, yet paramilitary thugs were unleashed on them and the military did fire into the crowds. None of the Arab governments shows much restraint in this regard - this is not Europe.

    And yes, the CIA and others wanted in on this popular sentiment and wanted to control its direction.

    Now, once the bullets started flying (irrespective of where anyone wants to place the blame for who started it) and the Syrian Army responded brutally in certain incidents (as expected) - the people and ulema had a choice (you can read that PDF I linked to) and some sided with the government while others stated the response was too heavy-handed and that the government had crossed the line. The mosques (and Friday prayers) being the rallying points for the crowds is not being made up - these are attested to by multiple sources - the CIA might have pushed the narrative a certain way, but there is no way they had that much control on the ground level. Again these are not Salafi/Wahhabi extremists (there was no debate within these guys as to which way to go). Another note, the article you linked to (http://www.globalresearch.ca/daraa-2011-syrias-islamist-insurrection-in-disguise/5460547) states the following (with which I totally agree):
    “The protest movement in Syria was overwhelmingly peaceful until September 2011” – Human Rights Watch, March 2012, Washington

    Note that the detention, torture and killing of the teenager Hamza Khatib and his friends happened months before September, 2011 - which helped push protests into overdrive:
    https://en.zamanalwsl.net/news/9479.html

    I encourage everyone to take a look at those photos and tell me how they would feel as an ordinary citizen at that time while the civil protests were "overwhelmingly peaceful". These same pictures were making the rounds in Syria (you can't hide this stuff any more now that anyone can share a picture over cell phones) . The ulema had to take into account that they were dealing with a government that was willing to torture 13 year olds for political graffiti. Again, I am sure we can both find horrible pictures of what Daesh does to its detainees - but that is NOT my point. This is a brutal police-state even if it is less brutal than its rivals.

    This, to me, is the most crucial paragraph in Brad Hoff's analysis:
    "The average working class Syrian was resigned to accept the government promise of security and stability in exchange for limitations upon personal political freedoms. With multiple religions and ethnic groups living side by side in a volatile region full of historic and hidden animosities, as well as ceaseless external geopolitical pressures, it seemed a sensibly practical, even if unjust, solution. There was a palpable feeling of an “enforced secularism” binding Syrian society together."

    Again, I believe the polls when they state the territory under government control is super-majority supportive of Assad. I also believe the polls that stated that Bush II was wildly popular directly after 9/11 for the same exact reasons - people value security and stability - a lot. For some people however, the 'unjust solution' lost its legitimacy in how the government responded to the protesters.

    It seems we may have to agree to disagree on this subject, but I believe we've given enough to people to ponder on.

    May God preserve both you and your family for your search for the truth in matters.

    Note: About the Muslim Brotherhood; they are indeed a Salafist leaning group, but it is not clear that they automatically advocate for violence or are puppets of the US. The Arab Spring in Egypt (where they are more active) is the best example; I have seen no evidence (maybe others have) that they attained to their position (before Morsi was deposed) by means of violence rather than solid grass-roots organization. Secondly, they were overthrown by a military coup that had the solid backing of al-Saud (and likely the US) - these are not friends, they are often rivals on the world stage:
    "Prince Bandar has also been to Moscow. Being on opposite sides of the civil war in Syria (the kingdom is seeking the fall of Bashar al-Assad, who Russia supports militarily) was no impediment to a productive visit. Both sides agreed to keep the oil price high, found common ground in their hatred for the Muslim Brotherhood, whom top Russian Arabists in the ministry of foreign affairs equate with Islamic extremists."
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/20/saudi-arabia-coup-egypt

  125. dahoit says:
    @Priss Factor
    Holocaust(and other tragedies of WWII) were so horrible that they needed no exaggeration.

    But unfortunately, some Jews did cook things up to make Holocaust even worse.
    There was no need for this since it was horrible beyond imagining.

    I grew up with stories of soaps, lamp shades, and etc, all of which I believed.
    It made Nazi seem even more sinister.

    It's like you don't have to add Godzilla to Hiroshima to make it seem horrible. Even if the bomb didn't unleash Godzilla, it was horrible enough.

    Because there were so many lies and hoaxes added to make Holocaust seem even worse, the deniers point to such and say the WHOLE thing was a hoax.
    That's throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

    Among legit historians, recent studies show that the number of Jews killed in gas chambers was greatly exaggerated. Much of the killing happened with gunshots to the head in the battle fields.

    But I grew up thinking most Jews were killed in shower rooms by gas. It's become such a fixture of the Holocaust narrative that it messes up the discourse.

    Whenever someone says that death-by-gassing was exaggerated, Jews scream and call him a Holocaust denier.
    But then, there are deniers who use such exaggerations and falsehoods to say there never was a Holocaust at all.
    They are like Japanese far-right nuts who claim that, just because some accounts of Nanking massacre were false, the whole thing must be a farce.

    Surely, there is a sane ground, but the issue has been too politicized.

    I think there is a way to counter the Holocaust Industry(filled with slimeballs like Abe Foxman) without denying the industrial death machine that was the Holocaust.

    Also, the term 'holocaust survivor' has to be revised. For the longest time, I thought a holocaust survivor was someone who experienced the camps and full brutality of the Nazi machine. I would call them survivors.

    But the term includes just about any Jew who happened to live in zones of Nazi occupation. Sure, all faced hardships, but many didn't come face to face with near-death. In France, 1/4 of the Jewish population got shipped to the camps. If any survived, I would call them holocaust survivors.
    But under current use of term, just about any Jew who lived in Nazi area of occupation was a 'holocaust survivor'. That is nuts.

    I have never heard or read anyone say that Hitler put his political enemies in CCs and many many died from the ravages of camp treatment,disease and starvation,which the German people themselves suffered.
    I can’t believe a word from serial liars though,and gassing millions of people has so many holes that a 747 could fly through.
    The rumor mill in a camp or prison means the inmates know the score before the authorities can implement it,and mass gassing must have been known to the inmates ,so why would they line up like robots for slaughter?Total horseshit,yeah its possible some were gassed,we used it in California as a humane way of execution,but the mass tale is just another story for Zion and Israel,another serial lie in a wall of them,as only lies could have brought about the creation of that state.

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  126. dahoit says:
    @Talha
    Hey WoO,

    I've thought of that, it does seem like all the output is the same in one sense; 1) insulting, 2) uncompromising, 3) always somehow brings the subject to Jews (no matter how unrelated). I don't believe I have heard a single positive thing from that handle regarding anyone; even when the person actually agrees with him, they still somehow get insulted. I think I will simply avoid in the future, there seems no point in carrying a 'conversation' with 'him/them'. He is very effective in getting insults thrown at Islam though - for understandable reasons - maybe that's the plan...

    Who knows? It's the internet - so anything goes nowadays. I've seen people advocate straight up genocide in these forums. I think this medium tends to bring out a kind of psychosis in people (youtube comments - my Lord!)- I'd be very interested in official studies on the matter.

    Peace.

    [Clogging up this thread with numerous short comments containing little substantive information and poor levels of proper spacing and punctuation isn't a good idea. Raise your standards if you wish to see your future comments published.]

    Jews control every political creep,own all the media,have totally supported the hillaryous’s ones candidacy,helped her overcome corruption charges,love every trade steal,control every movie about Islamophobic BS, cover up for Israel,9-11,Iraq,open borders,back illegal amnesty,hate Russia and just about every Muslim nation(except our thugs like SA of course)and promote Israel over US.
    Sorry,its all about the Jews,Zion,and the evisceration of America into a modern feudal entity.
    And its why they hate Trump,because he is a threat to that hegemony.

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    • Replies: @Art

    Sorry,its all about the Jews,Zion,and the evisceration of America into a modern feudal entity.
    And its why they hate Trump,because he is a threat to that hegemony.
     
    Hmm – how is Trump going to treat Israel?

    I think that it is going to be the same as with Obama – Obama supported Israeli security - but hated Netanyahu.

    Even more then Obama - I cannot see Trump getting along with Netanyahu.

    Trump likes making deals – making deals means both sides give something – Netanyahu does not give – if he does give, he cheats – Trump will not like that.

    Within two months they will be at loggerheads.

  127. Krollchem says:
    @Talha
    Dear KC - very good points - thanks for the input.

    Your welcome. So seldom do I converse with those who can understand and appreciate the big picture.

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  128. L.K says:

    Eva Barlett reports from Syria;

    Damascus: Life Returns 5 Years After NATO Destabilization Efforts

    http://www.mintpressnews.com/damascus-life-returns-5-years-after-nato-destabilization-efforts/218601/

    Many interesting photos.
    At the end she writes:

    “We are here and will stay here. Our leader and our army is our hope.” The sign speaks the sentiment of Syrians I have met in Aleppo, Homs, Latakia, Sweida, Ma’loula, and Damascus. The popularity of President al-Assad has even been admitted by western sources in recent years as at least 70%, although popular sentiment on the streets would put the figure even higher.”

    A very good article by Prof. Tim Anderson, author of the book “The Dirty War on Syria”:

    “Daraa 2011: Syria’s Islamist Insurrection in Disguise”

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/daraa-2011-syrias-islamist-insurrection-in-disguise/5460547

    Five Years ago Daraa, mid-March 2011.

    “I have seen from the beginning armed protesters in those demonstrations … they were the first to fire on the police. Very often the violence of the security forces comes in response to the brutal violence of the armed insurgents” – Jesuit priest Father Frans Van der Lugt, January 2012, Homs Syria

    “The claim that armed opposition to the government has begun only recently is a complete lie. The killings of soldiers, police and civilians, often in the most brutal circumstances, have been going on virtually since the beginning.” – Professor Jeremy Salt, October 2011, Ankara Turkey

    In the article, the previous Sectarian uprising in Syria, in the early 80s, is also covered.

    It also mentions a US intelligence report(DIA), 2012, re the nature of the “opposition” fighters:

    A US intelligence report in August 2012, contrary to Washington’s public statements about ‘moderate rebels’, said:

    ‘The Salafist, the Muslim Brotherhood and AQI [Al Qaeda in Iraq, later ISIS] are the major forces driving the insurgency in Syria … AQI supported the Syrian Opposition from the beginning, both ideologically and through the media’ (DIA 2012).

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  129. Art says:
    @dahoit
    [Clogging up this thread with numerous short comments containing little substantive information and poor levels of proper spacing and punctuation isn't a good idea. Raise your standards if you wish to see your future comments published.]

    Jews control every political creep,own all the media,have totally supported the hillaryous's ones candidacy,helped her overcome corruption charges,love every trade steal,control every movie about Islamophobic BS, cover up for Israel,9-11,Iraq,open borders,back illegal amnesty,hate Russia and just about every Muslim nation(except our thugs like SA of course)and promote Israel over US.
    Sorry,its all about the Jews,Zion,and the evisceration of America into a modern feudal entity.
    And its why they hate Trump,because he is a threat to that hegemony.

    Sorry,its all about the Jews,Zion,and the evisceration of America into a modern feudal entity.
    And its why they hate Trump,because he is a threat to that hegemony.

    Hmm – how is Trump going to treat Israel?

    I think that it is going to be the same as with Obama – Obama supported Israeli security – but hated Netanyahu.

    Even more then Obama – I cannot see Trump getting along with Netanyahu.

    Trump likes making deals – making deals means both sides give something – Netanyahu does not give – if he does give, he cheats – Trump will not like that.

    Within two months they will be at loggerheads.

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  130. @Wizard of Oz
    1. is there a difference in meaning between my saying "implicitly" and what I originally wrote "by implication"? If not what's your point?

    2. Do you so lack imagination and insight into yourself that you could not see that the reason i didn't go back and check ipsissima verba was that helping you to see where you had gone wrong was such a trivial matter that spending more time on it was not justified, even if one doesn't factor in the complication of the whole interaction being conducted on a smartphone screen with one thumb.
    3. You are obviously not a lawyer or academic philosopher, unless a failed one, because your way with words is such that it is tedious and unrewarding to engage. For one example your use of the word idiot is just broad brush insult and totally inappropriate to what at worst was a minor deficiency of care in proof reading or self-editing. Now you show both lack of care and lack of understanding and imagination in assuming for some reason to be found in your brain that I was writing in favour of Russia engaging in Syria, which it obviously had done, rather than supporting the view that the US should have engaged with Russia over Syrian matters.

    Could it be that you have an absurdly inflated idea of your intelligence and level of intellectual performance which allows you to assume lightly, without evidence or even examining the evidence, that others are prima facie very unintelligent and/or intellectually sloppy (which is what you are on the evidence of your posts)?

    I am equally inclined to believe that you are exhibiting a variant of Gilles de la Tourette's Syndrome [in case you are rushing to Google it...I haven't bothered to check the spelling]. Instead of the commoner obscenities your nervous tic produces streams of "idiot", "moron" etc.

    Actually Wiz, you’ve been referred to as an idiot many times by many people here on this site.

    I think Jonathan Revusky nailed it though when he coined the term (as if especially for you) HIQI, meaning high IQ idiot. It is a compliment to you of sorts and one far greater than most of the comments here that you have received in the past.

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    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    As I have had to meet demanding professional standards of logic and literacy for decades as well as testing judgment where appropriate by backing it with my own money my reaction too the uninteresting fact that quite a lot of commenters throw the word idiot around ncluding some who refer to me is to ask whether you think "idiot" is useful on an aspirationally upmaket blog, whether it has any reliable or consistent denotation or connotation, or whether it doesn't merely say more about the user of it: probably that he should be under suspended sntence at best for putting on the commenters to ignore list.

    Mind you much of the language on this blog by Americans is so emotionally intemperate and stressed that it lends evidence in support of a very gloomy diagnosis of what has happened to America in the last 25 years and where it now is.

    I am on the subcontinent and in the sample I have had in India's Karnataka state over the ladt week - despite hilarious and infuriating examples of bureaucracy and overemployment - I would expect India to be the leader of the English speaking world in 30 to 40 years time thanks to its ambitious energetic young population. They simply don't have a working class and lower middle class thatbonce hadvit so good but is now suffering from their objectively not being worth more economically than billions of people who will work for one fiftieth of US wages.

    , @Wizard of Oz
    See #137. By implication you are defending Parbes's crass behaviour. Really? What if you knew it wasca friend. Wouldn't you be worried about him if you couldn't laugh it off ad his being a naughty timewasting troll who amused himself with his act as the knowledgeable bore who was always ephatic and sure hiding behind an alias.

    What, if anything, is to be inferred from the pseudonym do you think?
  131. Solemnity says:

    Speaking of Armenians, which the author disparages without explanation:

    When is Israel going to stop being Holocaust-centric and pro-Turkish and stop colluding with Turkey to deny the Armenian genocide?

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  132. @NoseytheDuke
    Actually Wiz, you've been referred to as an idiot many times by many people here on this site.

    I think Jonathan Revusky nailed it though when he coined the term (as if especially for you) HIQI, meaning high IQ idiot. It is a compliment to you of sorts and one far greater than most of the comments here that you have received in the past.

    As I have had to meet demanding professional standards of logic and literacy for decades as well as testing judgment where appropriate by backing it with my own money my reaction too the uninteresting fact that quite a lot of commenters throw the word idiot around ncluding some who refer to me is to ask whether you think “idiot” is useful on an aspirationally upmaket blog, whether it has any reliable or consistent denotation or connotation, or whether it doesn’t merely say more about the user of it: probably that he should be under suspended sntence at best for putting on the commenters to ignore list.

    Mind you much of the language on this blog by Americans is so emotionally intemperate and stressed that it lends evidence in support of a very gloomy diagnosis of what has happened to America in the last 25 years and where it now is.

    I am on the subcontinent and in the sample I have had in India’s Karnataka state over the ladt week – despite hilarious and infuriating examples of bureaucracy and overemployment – I would expect India to be the leader of the English speaking world in 30 to 40 years time thanks to its ambitious energetic young population. They simply don’t have a working class and lower middle class thatbonce hadvit so good but is now suffering from their objectively not being worth more economically than billions of people who will work for one fiftieth of US wages.

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  133. @Parbes
    And a pretentious projecting idiot too. Now go collect your weekly shekels from Daddy Murdoch, neocon IDIOT!

    You should get advice from some calm sensible person about your erupting with insult against someone who wasn’t even disagreeing with you, apart from one tentative inference which you misconstrued and went bananas over.

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    • Replies: @Parbes
    Take your neocon trolling and constant obsessive anti-Russia, anti-Putin propagandizing somewhere else, idiot. Nobody is much interested in wasting time rehashing your mindless neocon talking points over and over again on this website. This isn't your place. Just go somewhere else. And if you insist on staying here and polluting this site's comments section, then you have to get used to being called out for what you are: A neocon idiot.
  134. @NoseytheDuke
    Actually Wiz, you've been referred to as an idiot many times by many people here on this site.

    I think Jonathan Revusky nailed it though when he coined the term (as if especially for you) HIQI, meaning high IQ idiot. It is a compliment to you of sorts and one far greater than most of the comments here that you have received in the past.

    See #137. By implication you are defending Parbes’s crass behaviour. Really? What if you knew it wasca friend. Wouldn’t you be worried about him if you couldn’t laugh it off ad his being a naughty timewasting troll who amused himself with his act as the knowledgeable bore who was always ephatic and sure hiding behind an alias.

    What, if anything, is to be inferred from the pseudonym do you think?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Parbes
    You cannot even spell or punctuate English correctly; and you are presuming to judge others and pontificate about important people and events on a relatively intelligent political blog. What a pathetic lousy neocon idiot troll you are!
  135. Talha says:
    @L.K
    @talha

    Prof. Joshua "I married an Alawite" Landis is NOT neutral at all.
    He is a propagandist.
    He has always been biased against the government of Syria, I've watched several interviews featuring him. In the interviews I've seen he never even strongly denounced the US for what it was and is doing to Syria, which is 100% against international law, not that the fucking US cares about it anyway.

    Your other sources are even more ridiculous;
    The Saudi owned Al Arabiya and the Qatari owned Al Jazeera??

    These 2 "countries" have been, from the beginning, at the forefront of funding and recruiting Salafist militants and mercenaries to overthrow the Syrian government, all with US cover.
    Both "news" outlets have produced tons of propaganda. British media is not much better.

    I wrote:
    "Syrians who r Muslim Brotherhood or Salafists/Waahabis, or those who desire Syria to become another US puppet, yes, those want Assad gone and the State destroyed."

    Talha: "Not true"

    Yes, it is true. "Rebels" fighting against the State have ALWAYS been sectarian in nature, Salafi scum. People fighting for political freedom, aka "Democracy", never existed.

    Senator Black: "K: Yes, and you know, I spoke with Lebanon very senior officials, and of course, discussed this with President Assad and with the top leadership of the Syrian parliament. And one of my questions, is why is there war in Syria? We know, this was not a popular uprising. This was a calculated decision by the CIA, MI6, French intelligence, working with the Muslim Brotherhood, Turks, Saudis — an organized plan to topple the government."

    The Senator leaves out the bloody israelis/zionists, but that is predictable.

    Moving on to your "initially largely peaceful, native and local rebellion" thing:

    BLACK: It is so bizarre. And the method that we use, the specific method when we triggered this is interesting. The Arab Spring started with a single suicide, and it is very difficult to conceive that it did not spread without very active covert action. Nothing ever happens in politics, nothing just happens without a push.

    So there actually began to be legitimate demonstrations in Syria as well as across the Middle East. What I found interesting, I talked to several people — I just bumped into them on my trip, and they said, “Oh, I was anti-Assad then.”
    Well, one of them turns out to be my interpreter; he’d been with me for the better part of a week! And one day we’re talking, and he said, “You know,” he said, “I was a demonstrator against President Assad.” And I said, “Oh, that’s interesting. Tell me about it?”

    He said, “Well, we just started. It was during the Arab Spring, and we started holding demonstrations.” Much like, you and I have both probably been involved in demonstrations! But he said, “first, people started showing up with al-Qaeda flags.”

    STEINBERG: Yeah. The black flags.

    BLACK: “Then,” he said, “people started showing up with military weapons.” Now, there is no Second Amendment in Syria, so you don’t just grab a Kalashnikov at the corner drug store.

    STEINBERG: Right. You don’t go to a gun show on Sunday afternoon.

    BLACK: That’s right, you don’t do that. And he said, “The third thing, is they began to preach religious hatred!” And all along the demonstrators would say, “You guys, get out of here, get out of here! This is not what we’re about. We’re just here asking the government for some changes.” And the friction became tougher and tougher, and he said, “My uncle was the head of all the demonstrators” in this large city, and he said, in the seventh month of back and forth with the al-Qaeda people, they murdered him; they killed him.

    And so I asked the same question of the several people I encountered, who had been anti-Assad. Well, they weren’t anti-Assad, they were demonstrators; they weren’t demonstrating against him.

    STEINBERG: Sure. They wanted reforms.

    BLACK: They wanted reforms. You know, I’ve been in demonstrations; I wasn’t demonstrating to bring down the government, I was there for reform.

    And this was news to me, because I knew about this transition, but what was stunning that consistently, — two out of the three said that this transition took place over the span of a single month; the second one said it took place over the span of two months. So within one to two months, what started as demonstrations became an al-Qaeda-led violent, jihadist uprising. And of course, you still had demonstrators struggling to make it a demonstration. But that was how it developed."


    As for the Baath party in Syria, most members are actually Sunnis, just as most of the people in Government and in the military and gov.paramilitaries, are Sunnis.

    Take care

    Hey L.K.,

    Again, I agree with a whole lot of what you are saying. I agree, Prof. Landis doesn’t like the Assad government, neither do I, nor does Mr. Fisk. Everyone, including you is biased on this matter. I say he is neutral because, despite the way he leans, he allows many voices to be published, including direct interviews with pro-Assad militias. I consider that neutral. I didn’t like Saddam’s government either, but I marched against the Iraq War in the worldwide demonstrations.

    You are right about al-Arabiya and al-Jazeera, but are you saying that particular article is false about Shaykh Bouti (db)? There are plenty I can point out to from other sources as well on the subject. Here is an article (in Arabic) about how many members of Shaykh Bouti’s family have fled into Turkey but were initially prevented (and threatened) by the Syrian government from leaving.

    https://www.zamanalwsl.net/readNews.php?id=37035

    Talha: “Not true”

    You are correct in catching me…I should have clarified; they aren’t the only ones – as I have clearly shown by the example of Shaykh Yaqoubi (db) who is obviously not the only voice, but a voice of a sizeable segment of the traditional Sunni ulema and population.

    As for the Baath party in Syria, most members are actually Sunnis

    Correct, as was the case in Iraq. That does not mean; 1) it wasn’t founded by Christians and b) there was not a significant Sunni sentiment against it.

    They wanted reforms. You know, I’ve been in demonstrations; I wasn’t demonstrating to bring down the government, I was there for reform.

    Everything you quote from the senator makes sense. The people wanted political reforms – this was a very popular movement across all segments of society and this is how it started. And solid reforms would have made most of the the population happy, but the Syrian government didn’t move fast enough on it. At this point there was a divergence from peaceful protests to armed conflict; I have heard credible reports (and believe both occurred) that there were armed provocateurs within the demonstrations as well as that the Syrian Army also did not show restraint (as it saw what was happening in the rest of the Arab world). This kind of thing happened in Egypt where I have read of zero reports of protesters firing on the army, yet paramilitary thugs were unleashed on them and the military did fire into the crowds. None of the Arab governments shows much restraint in this regard – this is not Europe.

    And yes, the CIA and others wanted in on this popular sentiment and wanted to control its direction.

    Now, once the bullets started flying (irrespective of where anyone wants to place the blame for who started it) and the Syrian Army responded brutally in certain incidents (as expected) – the people and ulema had a choice (you can read that PDF I linked to) and some sided with the government while others stated the response was too heavy-handed and that the government had crossed the line. The mosques (and Friday prayers) being the rallying points for the crowds is not being made up – these are attested to by multiple sources – the CIA might have pushed the narrative a certain way, but there is no way they had that much control on the ground level. Again these are not Salafi/Wahhabi extremists (there was no debate within these guys as to which way to go). Another note, the article you linked to (http://www.globalresearch.ca/daraa-2011-syrias-islamist-insurrection-in-disguise/5460547) states the following (with which I totally agree):
    “The protest movement in Syria was overwhelmingly peaceful until September 2011” – Human Rights Watch, March 2012, Washington

    Note that the detention, torture and killing of the teenager Hamza Khatib and his friends happened months before September, 2011 – which helped push protests into overdrive:

    https://en.zamanalwsl.net/news/9479.html

    I encourage everyone to take a look at those photos and tell me how they would feel as an ordinary citizen at that time while the civil protests were “overwhelmingly peaceful”. These same pictures were making the rounds in Syria (you can’t hide this stuff any more now that anyone can share a picture over cell phones) . The ulema had to take into account that they were dealing with a government that was willing to torture 13 year olds for political graffiti. Again, I am sure we can both find horrible pictures of what Daesh does to its detainees – but that is NOT my point. This is a brutal police-state even if it is less brutal than its rivals.

    This, to me, is the most crucial paragraph in Brad Hoff’s analysis:
    “The average working class Syrian was resigned to accept the government promise of security and stability in exchange for limitations upon personal political freedoms. With multiple religions and ethnic groups living side by side in a volatile region full of historic and hidden animosities, as well as ceaseless external geopolitical pressures, it seemed a sensibly practical, even if unjust, solution. There was a palpable feeling of an “enforced secularism” binding Syrian society together.”

    Again, I believe the polls when they state the territory under government control is super-majority supportive of Assad. I also believe the polls that stated that Bush II was wildly popular directly after 9/11 for the same exact reasons – people value security and stability – a lot. For some people however, the ‘unjust solution’ lost its legitimacy in how the government responded to the protesters.

    It seems we may have to agree to disagree on this subject, but I believe we’ve given enough to people to ponder on.

    May God preserve both you and your family for your search for the truth in matters.

    Note: About the Muslim Brotherhood; they are indeed a Salafist leaning group, but it is not clear that they automatically advocate for violence or are puppets of the US. The Arab Spring in Egypt (where they are more active) is the best example; I have seen no evidence (maybe others have) that they attained to their position (before Morsi was deposed) by means of violence rather than solid grass-roots organization. Secondly, they were overthrown by a military coup that had the solid backing of al-Saud (and likely the US) – these are not friends, they are often rivals on the world stage:
    “Prince Bandar has also been to Moscow. Being on opposite sides of the civil war in Syria (the kingdom is seeking the fall of Bashar al-Assad, who Russia supports militarily) was no impediment to a productive visit. Both sides agreed to keep the oil price high, found common ground in their hatred for the Muslim Brotherhood, whom top Russian Arabists in the ministry of foreign affairs equate with Islamic extremists.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/20/saudi-arabia-coup-egypt

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Another note; the sagacious Shaykh Yaqoubi (db) asked Syrian refugees NOT to interfere in the internal affairs of Turkey during the turmoil:
    https://twitter.com/Shaykhabulhuda/status/754093635130494976
    , @5371
    Shaykh Bouti? For an American audience, you had better use a fuller version of his name.
    , @Talha
    Ah - and if anyone was in doubt regarding the rebels' brutality with young boys:
    https://consortiumnews.com/2016/07/21/us-backed-syrian-moderates-behead-12-year-old/

    Sigh...from God we are, and to God we shall return...

  136. Talha says:
    @Talha
    Hey L.K.,

    Again, I agree with a whole lot of what you are saying. I agree, Prof. Landis doesn't like the Assad government, neither do I, nor does Mr. Fisk. Everyone, including you is biased on this matter. I say he is neutral because, despite the way he leans, he allows many voices to be published, including direct interviews with pro-Assad militias. I consider that neutral. I didn't like Saddam's government either, but I marched against the Iraq War in the worldwide demonstrations.

    You are right about al-Arabiya and al-Jazeera, but are you saying that particular article is false about Shaykh Bouti (db)? There are plenty I can point out to from other sources as well on the subject. Here is an article (in Arabic) about how many members of Shaykh Bouti's family have fled into Turkey but were initially prevented (and threatened) by the Syrian government from leaving.
    https://www.zamanalwsl.net/readNews.php?id=37035

    Talha: “Not true”
     

    You are correct in catching me...I should have clarified; they aren't the only ones - as I have clearly shown by the example of Shaykh Yaqoubi (db) who is obviously not the only voice, but a voice of a sizeable segment of the traditional Sunni ulema and population.

    As for the Baath party in Syria, most members are actually Sunnis
     

    Correct, as was the case in Iraq. That does not mean; 1) it wasn't founded by Christians and b) there was not a significant Sunni sentiment against it.

    They wanted reforms. You know, I’ve been in demonstrations; I wasn’t demonstrating to bring down the government, I was there for reform.
     
    Everything you quote from the senator makes sense. The people wanted political reforms - this was a very popular movement across all segments of society and this is how it started. And solid reforms would have made most of the the population happy, but the Syrian government didn't move fast enough on it. At this point there was a divergence from peaceful protests to armed conflict; I have heard credible reports (and believe both occurred) that there were armed provocateurs within the demonstrations as well as that the Syrian Army also did not show restraint (as it saw what was happening in the rest of the Arab world). This kind of thing happened in Egypt where I have read of zero reports of protesters firing on the army, yet paramilitary thugs were unleashed on them and the military did fire into the crowds. None of the Arab governments shows much restraint in this regard - this is not Europe.

    And yes, the CIA and others wanted in on this popular sentiment and wanted to control its direction.

    Now, once the bullets started flying (irrespective of where anyone wants to place the blame for who started it) and the Syrian Army responded brutally in certain incidents (as expected) - the people and ulema had a choice (you can read that PDF I linked to) and some sided with the government while others stated the response was too heavy-handed and that the government had crossed the line. The mosques (and Friday prayers) being the rallying points for the crowds is not being made up - these are attested to by multiple sources - the CIA might have pushed the narrative a certain way, but there is no way they had that much control on the ground level. Again these are not Salafi/Wahhabi extremists (there was no debate within these guys as to which way to go). Another note, the article you linked to (http://www.globalresearch.ca/daraa-2011-syrias-islamist-insurrection-in-disguise/5460547) states the following (with which I totally agree):
    “The protest movement in Syria was overwhelmingly peaceful until September 2011” – Human Rights Watch, March 2012, Washington

    Note that the detention, torture and killing of the teenager Hamza Khatib and his friends happened months before September, 2011 - which helped push protests into overdrive:
    https://en.zamanalwsl.net/news/9479.html

    I encourage everyone to take a look at those photos and tell me how they would feel as an ordinary citizen at that time while the civil protests were "overwhelmingly peaceful". These same pictures were making the rounds in Syria (you can't hide this stuff any more now that anyone can share a picture over cell phones) . The ulema had to take into account that they were dealing with a government that was willing to torture 13 year olds for political graffiti. Again, I am sure we can both find horrible pictures of what Daesh does to its detainees - but that is NOT my point. This is a brutal police-state even if it is less brutal than its rivals.

    This, to me, is the most crucial paragraph in Brad Hoff's analysis:
    "The average working class Syrian was resigned to accept the government promise of security and stability in exchange for limitations upon personal political freedoms. With multiple religions and ethnic groups living side by side in a volatile region full of historic and hidden animosities, as well as ceaseless external geopolitical pressures, it seemed a sensibly practical, even if unjust, solution. There was a palpable feeling of an “enforced secularism” binding Syrian society together."

    Again, I believe the polls when they state the territory under government control is super-majority supportive of Assad. I also believe the polls that stated that Bush II was wildly popular directly after 9/11 for the same exact reasons - people value security and stability - a lot. For some people however, the 'unjust solution' lost its legitimacy in how the government responded to the protesters.

    It seems we may have to agree to disagree on this subject, but I believe we've given enough to people to ponder on.

    May God preserve both you and your family for your search for the truth in matters.

    Note: About the Muslim Brotherhood; they are indeed a Salafist leaning group, but it is not clear that they automatically advocate for violence or are puppets of the US. The Arab Spring in Egypt (where they are more active) is the best example; I have seen no evidence (maybe others have) that they attained to their position (before Morsi was deposed) by means of violence rather than solid grass-roots organization. Secondly, they were overthrown by a military coup that had the solid backing of al-Saud (and likely the US) - these are not friends, they are often rivals on the world stage:
    "Prince Bandar has also been to Moscow. Being on opposite sides of the civil war in Syria (the kingdom is seeking the fall of Bashar al-Assad, who Russia supports militarily) was no impediment to a productive visit. Both sides agreed to keep the oil price high, found common ground in their hatred for the Muslim Brotherhood, whom top Russian Arabists in the ministry of foreign affairs equate with Islamic extremists."
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/20/saudi-arabia-coup-egypt

    Another note; the sagacious Shaykh Yaqoubi (db) asked Syrian refugees NOT to interfere in the internal affairs of Turkey during the turmoil:

    Read More
  137. 5371 says:
    @Talha
    Hey L.K.,

    Again, I agree with a whole lot of what you are saying. I agree, Prof. Landis doesn't like the Assad government, neither do I, nor does Mr. Fisk. Everyone, including you is biased on this matter. I say he is neutral because, despite the way he leans, he allows many voices to be published, including direct interviews with pro-Assad militias. I consider that neutral. I didn't like Saddam's government either, but I marched against the Iraq War in the worldwide demonstrations.

    You are right about al-Arabiya and al-Jazeera, but are you saying that particular article is false about Shaykh Bouti (db)? There are plenty I can point out to from other sources as well on the subject. Here is an article (in Arabic) about how many members of Shaykh Bouti's family have fled into Turkey but were initially prevented (and threatened) by the Syrian government from leaving.
    https://www.zamanalwsl.net/readNews.php?id=37035

    Talha: “Not true”
     

    You are correct in catching me...I should have clarified; they aren't the only ones - as I have clearly shown by the example of Shaykh Yaqoubi (db) who is obviously not the only voice, but a voice of a sizeable segment of the traditional Sunni ulema and population.

    As for the Baath party in Syria, most members are actually Sunnis
     

    Correct, as was the case in Iraq. That does not mean; 1) it wasn't founded by Christians and b) there was not a significant Sunni sentiment against it.

    They wanted reforms. You know, I’ve been in demonstrations; I wasn’t demonstrating to bring down the government, I was there for reform.
     
    Everything you quote from the senator makes sense. The people wanted political reforms - this was a very popular movement across all segments of society and this is how it started. And solid reforms would have made most of the the population happy, but the Syrian government didn't move fast enough on it. At this point there was a divergence from peaceful protests to armed conflict; I have heard credible reports (and believe both occurred) that there were armed provocateurs within the demonstrations as well as that the Syrian Army also did not show restraint (as it saw what was happening in the rest of the Arab world). This kind of thing happened in Egypt where I have read of zero reports of protesters firing on the army, yet paramilitary thugs were unleashed on them and the military did fire into the crowds. None of the Arab governments shows much restraint in this regard - this is not Europe.

    And yes, the CIA and others wanted in on this popular sentiment and wanted to control its direction.

    Now, once the bullets started flying (irrespective of where anyone wants to place the blame for who started it) and the Syrian Army responded brutally in certain incidents (as expected) - the people and ulema had a choice (you can read that PDF I linked to) and some sided with the government while others stated the response was too heavy-handed and that the government had crossed the line. The mosques (and Friday prayers) being the rallying points for the crowds is not being made up - these are attested to by multiple sources - the CIA might have pushed the narrative a certain way, but there is no way they had that much control on the ground level. Again these are not Salafi/Wahhabi extremists (there was no debate within these guys as to which way to go). Another note, the article you linked to (http://www.globalresearch.ca/daraa-2011-syrias-islamist-insurrection-in-disguise/5460547) states the following (with which I totally agree):
    “The protest movement in Syria was overwhelmingly peaceful until September 2011” – Human Rights Watch, March 2012, Washington

    Note that the detention, torture and killing of the teenager Hamza Khatib and his friends happened months before September, 2011 - which helped push protests into overdrive:
    https://en.zamanalwsl.net/news/9479.html

    I encourage everyone to take a look at those photos and tell me how they would feel as an ordinary citizen at that time while the civil protests were "overwhelmingly peaceful". These same pictures were making the rounds in Syria (you can't hide this stuff any more now that anyone can share a picture over cell phones) . The ulema had to take into account that they were dealing with a government that was willing to torture 13 year olds for political graffiti. Again, I am sure we can both find horrible pictures of what Daesh does to its detainees - but that is NOT my point. This is a brutal police-state even if it is less brutal than its rivals.

    This, to me, is the most crucial paragraph in Brad Hoff's analysis:
    "The average working class Syrian was resigned to accept the government promise of security and stability in exchange for limitations upon personal political freedoms. With multiple religions and ethnic groups living side by side in a volatile region full of historic and hidden animosities, as well as ceaseless external geopolitical pressures, it seemed a sensibly practical, even if unjust, solution. There was a palpable feeling of an “enforced secularism” binding Syrian society together."

    Again, I believe the polls when they state the territory under government control is super-majority supportive of Assad. I also believe the polls that stated that Bush II was wildly popular directly after 9/11 for the same exact reasons - people value security and stability - a lot. For some people however, the 'unjust solution' lost its legitimacy in how the government responded to the protesters.

    It seems we may have to agree to disagree on this subject, but I believe we've given enough to people to ponder on.

    May God preserve both you and your family for your search for the truth in matters.

    Note: About the Muslim Brotherhood; they are indeed a Salafist leaning group, but it is not clear that they automatically advocate for violence or are puppets of the US. The Arab Spring in Egypt (where they are more active) is the best example; I have seen no evidence (maybe others have) that they attained to their position (before Morsi was deposed) by means of violence rather than solid grass-roots organization. Secondly, they were overthrown by a military coup that had the solid backing of al-Saud (and likely the US) - these are not friends, they are often rivals on the world stage:
    "Prince Bandar has also been to Moscow. Being on opposite sides of the civil war in Syria (the kingdom is seeking the fall of Bashar al-Assad, who Russia supports militarily) was no impediment to a productive visit. Both sides agreed to keep the oil price high, found common ground in their hatred for the Muslim Brotherhood, whom top Russian Arabists in the ministry of foreign affairs equate with Islamic extremists."
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/20/saudi-arabia-coup-egypt

    Shaykh Bouti? For an American audience, you had better use a fuller version of his name.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Shaykh Saeed (or Said) Ramadan Bouti (ra):
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohamed_Said_Ramadan_Al-Bouti
    http://themuslim500.com/profile/sheikh-muhammad-said-ramadan-al-bouti

    Unless you meant that tongue in cheek - :)



    Peace.
  138. Talha says:
    @5371
    Shaykh Bouti? For an American audience, you had better use a fuller version of his name.

    Shaykh Saeed (or Said) Ramadan Bouti (ra):

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohamed_Said_Ramadan_Al-Bouti

    http://themuslim500.com/profile/sheikh-muhammad-said-ramadan-al-bouti

    Unless you meant that tongue in cheek – :)

    Peace.

    Read More
  139. Parbes says:
    @Wizard of Oz
    You should get advice from some calm sensible person about your erupting with insult against someone who wasn't even disagreeing with you, apart from one tentative inference which you misconstrued and went bananas over.

    Take your neocon trolling and constant obsessive anti-Russia, anti-Putin propagandizing somewhere else, idiot. Nobody is much interested in wasting time rehashing your mindless neocon talking points over and over again on this website. This isn’t your place. Just go somewhere else. And if you insist on staying here and polluting this site’s comments section, then you have to get used to being called out for what you are: A neocon idiot.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    Please show yourself to be,though rude and unpleasant, not entirely idiotic, by spelling out the evidence according to which it is reasonable to infer that I am a neocon troll or any kind of neocon.

    (And start please by proving that you are not using words like Lewis Carroll's Humpty Dumpty with some demonstration of your knowledge of the people and doctrines associated with the Project for a New American Century and other neocon institutions).

    BTW what do you count as my "anti-Russian, anti Putin propagandizing"? I ask in the light of thr fact that I have now twice made the point to you that I think the US should hsve long since ome to some arrangements with Russia over Syria; i.e. before being forced to.
  140. Parbes says:
    @Wizard of Oz
    See #137. By implication you are defending Parbes's crass behaviour. Really? What if you knew it wasca friend. Wouldn't you be worried about him if you couldn't laugh it off ad his being a naughty timewasting troll who amused himself with his act as the knowledgeable bore who was always ephatic and sure hiding behind an alias.

    What, if anything, is to be inferred from the pseudonym do you think?

    You cannot even spell or punctuate English correctly; and you are presuming to judge others and pontificate about important people and events on a relatively intelligent political blog. What a pathetic lousy neocon idiot troll you are!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    I don't think you are even one of the seriously accurate pedants in your teachers' common room dear meek little mouse that wants to roar.

    You notice the clumsy mispellings from my rapid use of one thumb on the minute keyboard after the dinner gong has sounded, so to speak, and your eagle eyed petty pedantry fastens on, if anything validly to do with punctuation, the absence of a question mark.

    As both that absence and the clumsy mistypings are evidently caused by the same hasty production and lack of editing your citing them as proof that I "cannot" spell or punctuate English correctly is so completely lacking in both logic and comon sense that it can be best characterised - being the self-exposure of a pompous little man who takes himself seriously - as foolish.

  141. @Parbes
    Take your neocon trolling and constant obsessive anti-Russia, anti-Putin propagandizing somewhere else, idiot. Nobody is much interested in wasting time rehashing your mindless neocon talking points over and over again on this website. This isn't your place. Just go somewhere else. And if you insist on staying here and polluting this site's comments section, then you have to get used to being called out for what you are: A neocon idiot.

    Please show yourself to be,though rude and unpleasant, not entirely idiotic, by spelling out the evidence according to which it is reasonable to infer that I am a neocon troll or any kind of neocon.

    (And start please by proving that you are not using words like Lewis Carroll’s Humpty Dumpty with some demonstration of your knowledge of the people and doctrines associated with the Project for a New American Century and other neocon institutions).

    BTW what do you count as my “anti-Russian, anti Putin propagandizing”? I ask in the light of thr fact that I have now twice made the point to you that I think the US should hsve long since ome to some arrangements with Russia over Syria; i.e. before being forced to.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Parbes
    "...by spelling out the evidence according to which it is reasonable to infer that I am a neocon troll or any kind of neocon."

    Hahhahhah, that's funny... Well, pretty much every post you make here, idiot. You think the people who see your comments are stupid, or wha'? Or have you started to play the "denying your own existence" game now, like that great creature-from-the-dark-depths neocon luminary Richard Perle himself?

    "...I have now twice made the point to you that I think the US should hsve long since ome to some arrangements with Russia over Syria..."

    Yeah, the U.S. government really wants to "come to arrangements over Syria", allright - as in demanding the removal of the legitimate, secular Syrian government no matter what; and cooperating with allies Saudi and Turkey in using a menagerie of jihadi outfits as proxies to that end for over half a decade now....
  142. @Parbes
    You cannot even spell or punctuate English correctly; and you are presuming to judge others and pontificate about important people and events on a relatively intelligent political blog. What a pathetic lousy neocon idiot troll you are!

    I don’t think you are even one of the seriously accurate pedants in your teachers’ common room dear meek little mouse that wants to roar.

    You notice the clumsy mispellings from my rapid use of one thumb on the minute keyboard after the dinner gong has sounded, so to speak, and your eagle eyed petty pedantry fastens on, if anything validly to do with punctuation, the absence of a question mark.

    As both that absence and the clumsy mistypings are evidently caused by the same hasty production and lack of editing your citing them as proof that I “cannot” spell or punctuate English correctly is so completely lacking in both logic and comon sense that it can be best characterised – being the self-exposure of a pompous little man who takes himself seriously – as foolish.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Parbes
    "I don’t think you are even one of the seriously accurate pedants in your teachers’ common room blah blah blah..."

    Yeah man, whatever....

    "...the self-exposure of a pompous little man who takes himself seriously..."

    Projecting, much?
  143. Parbes says:
    @Wizard of Oz
    Please show yourself to be,though rude and unpleasant, not entirely idiotic, by spelling out the evidence according to which it is reasonable to infer that I am a neocon troll or any kind of neocon.

    (And start please by proving that you are not using words like Lewis Carroll's Humpty Dumpty with some demonstration of your knowledge of the people and doctrines associated with the Project for a New American Century and other neocon institutions).

    BTW what do you count as my "anti-Russian, anti Putin propagandizing"? I ask in the light of thr fact that I have now twice made the point to you that I think the US should hsve long since ome to some arrangements with Russia over Syria; i.e. before being forced to.

    “…by spelling out the evidence according to which it is reasonable to infer that I am a neocon troll or any kind of neocon.”

    Hahhahhah, that’s funny… Well, pretty much every post you make here, idiot. You think the people who see your comments are stupid, or wha’? Or have you started to play the “denying your own existence” game now, like that great creature-from-the-dark-depths neocon luminary Richard Perle himself?

    “…I have now twice made the point to you that I think the US should hsve long since ome to some arrangements with Russia over Syria…”

    Yeah, the U.S. government really wants to “come to arrangements over Syria”, allright – as in demanding the removal of the legitimate, secular Syrian government no matter what; and cooperating with allies Saudi and Turkey in using a menagerie of jihadi outfits as proxies to that end for over half a decade now….

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  144. Parbes says:
    @Wizard of Oz
    I don't think you are even one of the seriously accurate pedants in your teachers' common room dear meek little mouse that wants to roar.

    You notice the clumsy mispellings from my rapid use of one thumb on the minute keyboard after the dinner gong has sounded, so to speak, and your eagle eyed petty pedantry fastens on, if anything validly to do with punctuation, the absence of a question mark.

    As both that absence and the clumsy mistypings are evidently caused by the same hasty production and lack of editing your citing them as proof that I "cannot" spell or punctuate English correctly is so completely lacking in both logic and comon sense that it can be best characterised - being the self-exposure of a pompous little man who takes himself seriously - as foolish.

    “I don’t think you are even one of the seriously accurate pedants in your teachers’ common room blah blah blah…”

    Yeah man, whatever….

    “…the self-exposure of a pompous little man who takes himself seriously…”

    Projecting, much?

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  145. AtaBrit says:

    The video of the attack on Erdogans hotel did not surface for days … why?

    In actual fact, watching the coup unfold the most ambiguous aspect of the whole event is Erdogan’s claims made on arrival at Ataturk airport, and claims made later.
    Talking at what, 02:00 in the morning at Ataturk, Erdogan claimed that his hotel in Marmaris had been bombed in the afternoon (!) and that he and his son-in-law got away but the attackers weren’t able to follow them for some reason, at which point the son-in-law cracks up and reiterates the point laughing, he is then cut out of frame … at that piint i asked myself two questiins – a) why had there been no reports of an attack on the president within the at least 6 hours between the attack and the statement, b) why do I, and others it would seem, get the impression that the son-in-law is lying through his teeth?

    The video produced days later did nothing to allay my suspicions that there is something amiss. That does not mean that the coup was Erdogans doing, it might mean that people exploited their knowledge of the coup and exagerated the situation for theatrical effect …

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  146. Talha says:
    @Talha
    Hey L.K.,

    Again, I agree with a whole lot of what you are saying. I agree, Prof. Landis doesn't like the Assad government, neither do I, nor does Mr. Fisk. Everyone, including you is biased on this matter. I say he is neutral because, despite the way he leans, he allows many voices to be published, including direct interviews with pro-Assad militias. I consider that neutral. I didn't like Saddam's government either, but I marched against the Iraq War in the worldwide demonstrations.

    You are right about al-Arabiya and al-Jazeera, but are you saying that particular article is false about Shaykh Bouti (db)? There are plenty I can point out to from other sources as well on the subject. Here is an article (in Arabic) about how many members of Shaykh Bouti's family have fled into Turkey but were initially prevented (and threatened) by the Syrian government from leaving.
    https://www.zamanalwsl.net/readNews.php?id=37035

    Talha: “Not true”
     

    You are correct in catching me...I should have clarified; they aren't the only ones - as I have clearly shown by the example of Shaykh Yaqoubi (db) who is obviously not the only voice, but a voice of a sizeable segment of the traditional Sunni ulema and population.

    As for the Baath party in Syria, most members are actually Sunnis
     

    Correct, as was the case in Iraq. That does not mean; 1) it wasn't founded by Christians and b) there was not a significant Sunni sentiment against it.

    They wanted reforms. You know, I’ve been in demonstrations; I wasn’t demonstrating to bring down the government, I was there for reform.
     
    Everything you quote from the senator makes sense. The people wanted political reforms - this was a very popular movement across all segments of society and this is how it started. And solid reforms would have made most of the the population happy, but the Syrian government didn't move fast enough on it. At this point there was a divergence from peaceful protests to armed conflict; I have heard credible reports (and believe both occurred) that there were armed provocateurs within the demonstrations as well as that the Syrian Army also did not show restraint (as it saw what was happening in the rest of the Arab world). This kind of thing happened in Egypt where I have read of zero reports of protesters firing on the army, yet paramilitary thugs were unleashed on them and the military did fire into the crowds. None of the Arab governments shows much restraint in this regard - this is not Europe.

    And yes, the CIA and others wanted in on this popular sentiment and wanted to control its direction.

    Now, once the bullets started flying (irrespective of where anyone wants to place the blame for who started it) and the Syrian Army responded brutally in certain incidents (as expected) - the people and ulema had a choice (you can read that PDF I linked to) and some sided with the government while others stated the response was too heavy-handed and that the government had crossed the line. The mosques (and Friday prayers) being the rallying points for the crowds is not being made up - these are attested to by multiple sources - the CIA might have pushed the narrative a certain way, but there is no way they had that much control on the ground level. Again these are not Salafi/Wahhabi extremists (there was no debate within these guys as to which way to go). Another note, the article you linked to (http://www.globalresearch.ca/daraa-2011-syrias-islamist-insurrection-in-disguise/5460547) states the following (with which I totally agree):
    “The protest movement in Syria was overwhelmingly peaceful until September 2011” – Human Rights Watch, March 2012, Washington

    Note that the detention, torture and killing of the teenager Hamza Khatib and his friends happened months before September, 2011 - which helped push protests into overdrive:
    https://en.zamanalwsl.net/news/9479.html

    I encourage everyone to take a look at those photos and tell me how they would feel as an ordinary citizen at that time while the civil protests were "overwhelmingly peaceful". These same pictures were making the rounds in Syria (you can't hide this stuff any more now that anyone can share a picture over cell phones) . The ulema had to take into account that they were dealing with a government that was willing to torture 13 year olds for political graffiti. Again, I am sure we can both find horrible pictures of what Daesh does to its detainees - but that is NOT my point. This is a brutal police-state even if it is less brutal than its rivals.

    This, to me, is the most crucial paragraph in Brad Hoff's analysis:
    "The average working class Syrian was resigned to accept the government promise of security and stability in exchange for limitations upon personal political freedoms. With multiple religions and ethnic groups living side by side in a volatile region full of historic and hidden animosities, as well as ceaseless external geopolitical pressures, it seemed a sensibly practical, even if unjust, solution. There was a palpable feeling of an “enforced secularism” binding Syrian society together."

    Again, I believe the polls when they state the territory under government control is super-majority supportive of Assad. I also believe the polls that stated that Bush II was wildly popular directly after 9/11 for the same exact reasons - people value security and stability - a lot. For some people however, the 'unjust solution' lost its legitimacy in how the government responded to the protesters.

    It seems we may have to agree to disagree on this subject, but I believe we've given enough to people to ponder on.

    May God preserve both you and your family for your search for the truth in matters.

    Note: About the Muslim Brotherhood; they are indeed a Salafist leaning group, but it is not clear that they automatically advocate for violence or are puppets of the US. The Arab Spring in Egypt (where they are more active) is the best example; I have seen no evidence (maybe others have) that they attained to their position (before Morsi was deposed) by means of violence rather than solid grass-roots organization. Secondly, they were overthrown by a military coup that had the solid backing of al-Saud (and likely the US) - these are not friends, they are often rivals on the world stage:
    "Prince Bandar has also been to Moscow. Being on opposite sides of the civil war in Syria (the kingdom is seeking the fall of Bashar al-Assad, who Russia supports militarily) was no impediment to a productive visit. Both sides agreed to keep the oil price high, found common ground in their hatred for the Muslim Brotherhood, whom top Russian Arabists in the ministry of foreign affairs equate with Islamic extremists."
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/20/saudi-arabia-coup-egypt

    Ah – and if anyone was in doubt regarding the rebels’ brutality with young boys:

    https://consortiumnews.com/2016/07/21/us-backed-syrian-moderates-behead-12-year-old/

    Sigh…from God we are, and to God we shall return…

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    • Replies: @Avery
    {... rebels’ brutality...}

    I think you denigrate the label rebel: these are not 'rebels'.
    These are cannibalistic, savage terrorists.
    It is one thing killing soldiers, even if it's the soldiers of your own country.
    But beheading a 12 year old child and the label rebel don't belong in the same sentence.
  147. Avery says:
    @Talha
    Ah - and if anyone was in doubt regarding the rebels' brutality with young boys:
    https://consortiumnews.com/2016/07/21/us-backed-syrian-moderates-behead-12-year-old/

    Sigh...from God we are, and to God we shall return...

    {… rebels’ brutality…}

    I think you denigrate the label rebel: these are not ‘rebels’.
    These are cannibalistic, savage terrorists.
    It is one thing killing soldiers, even if it’s the soldiers of your own country.
    But beheading a 12 year old child and the label rebel don’t belong in the same sentence.

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    • Replies: @Talha
    Good point Avery, I was just following the terminology in the article itself.

    Peace.
  148. Talha says:
    @Avery
    {... rebels’ brutality...}

    I think you denigrate the label rebel: these are not 'rebels'.
    These are cannibalistic, savage terrorists.
    It is one thing killing soldiers, even if it's the soldiers of your own country.
    But beheading a 12 year old child and the label rebel don't belong in the same sentence.

    Good point Avery, I was just following the terminology in the article itself.

    Peace.

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  149. Che Guava says:

    Always appreciate your writing, but the figures being cited just over 24 hrs ago 45.000 civil servants suspended or fired, countlesr teachers, almost 3,000 judges.

    There has indeed been a successful coup d’etat in Turkey, but mounted
    solely by Erdogan and his cronies.

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  150. Boris N says:
    @5371
    You are a professional western troll posing as a Russian resident and patriot. I say to you in the words of a Shakespearean character, "Go to, you are known very well."

    Thank you for making me laugh and for your appreciation of my English language skills. I never heard in my life such a ridiculously funny and, at the same time,
    praising statement about myself. Surely I have to remember it.

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  151. Boris N says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Nonsensical is to live for the past 20 years in your cozy house in a good white middle-class neighbourhood somewhere in cozy warm sunny California and to speak out loud how good the life in Russia is. Especially, if you have not lived in Russia since the early childhood and know about the country largely by watching RT and RTR Planeta and reading Rosstat’s success reports.
     
    The specificity of your knowledge of my bio is somewhat higher than I believe I ever put into the public domain. And predictably for the most part it's wrong.

    I watch RT like once a year, lol. I have never had a TV. However you are correct I do consult Rosstat a lot. Statistics > anecdotes and rhetoric.

    The entire Russian government and Duma consist of compradors, whether they were somebody important in the 1990s or not (in fact, most were, let’s begin with Putin, the “godson” of Yeltsin).
     
    And how exactly can you come to power after Yeltsin and not be somehow associated with Yeltsin? (short of staging a coup, which is hard, as 1993 showed, or beating him in elections, which is also hard given the oligarchs/media are on his side, as 1996 showed?)

    Putin removed the most odious Yeltsin era individuals from power. Yeltsin himself was kept under close observation and prevented him from doing any more damage. He allowed them to keep their wealth. You can criticize that, but there are legitimate counterarguments as well.

    1) Russia has got Crimea but even before the referendum Moscow and Kiev created an inter-governmental commission to return the heavy weaponry like tanks, etc. from Crimea to mainland Ukraine. WTF? Do you imagine this? Did they know even before everything started? How could you give and receive the weaponry when you were “at war”?
     
    Yes Russia returned a few rustbuckets to Ukraine. None of that made any difference to the military balance between Russia and Ukraine whatsoever.

    Also the whole point of Russia's entire information strategy is that it is not at war with Ukraine, but that is a civil war between Ukrainians.

    (A strategy that has, despite the "information environment" in Ukraine, done surprisingly well:

    45% респондентов уверены, что ответственность за российско-украинский конфликт прежде всего несет Россия. 7,9% полагают, что Украина, 39% считают, что ответственность несут обе стороны в одинаковой мере.(Ukraine poll: 45% think Russia is responsible, 8% think Ukraine, 39% that both in equal measure)
     
    )

    It also answers many of your consequent points.

    Re-2. What should Russia have done instead? Proclaimed anathema?

    Re-4. Russia has hardly been feeding Ukraine (it has been surviving thanks to politically-approved IMF loans). Yes, Russia could have done more to destabilize Ukraine economically. Maybe it would have resulted in faster Ukrainian disillusionment with Maidanism. Or maybe not. Blaming Russia for their economic woes would have been easier (as in actually justified).

    Re-5. Yes, it is regrettable that merchants would put profits ahead of the national interest. That is hardly unique to Russia however.

    In spite of the Ukrainian anti-Russian hysteria for the past 2 years, they are as hypocritical and double-faced as the Kremlin. The Ukies hate Russians, but buy everything from Russia, they are bargaining about discounts for gas, even Porosh still has had (until recently) his factory in Russia, etc.
     
    I wonder why. It's almost like going "total war" mode has costly political and economic consequences and both regimes recognize that.

    The specificity of your knowledge of my bio is somewhat higher than I believe I ever put into the public domain.

    Actualy, I’ve been reading you since a quite long time ago and you said your bio in your old blog before you cautiously deleted it as well as in various posts here and there, so it is not a difficult task to imagine your personality. I even remember some numbers and dates. You with your family left Russia for the UK somewhere in 1994, when you were 6 years old, then after some short time you left for California and seem to have been living there since then (that is no less than 20 years), where as well you get you a degree in Political Economy at Berkeley. I also read your texts in Russian: a typical lame half-forgotten Russian of a person who have not used the language since an early age. I’m sure there is nothing specifical in such a knowledge, especially bearing in mind that you are quite a public person.

    And predictably for the most part it’s wrong.

    In what part? Are you a hobo living on the street in a black ghetto in Atlanta? Or have you lived for the past 20 years in a block house in a sleeping quarter of Ivanovo (no, you haven’t)? Do not be pretending.

    I watch RT like once a year, lol. I have never had a TV.

    That makes things worse. You know Russia even less than I thought. You did not know Russia even from the pictures from TV. Your Russia is a post-Perestroika Russia seen by a 6 year-old boy from a cozy Soviet intelligentsia family.

    However you are correct I do consult Rosstat a lot.

    Well, it does not make anybody an expert on Russia.

    Statistics > anecdotes and rhetoric.

    Some things like a deep personal experience, not only to be born, but having grown and having been lived in the country for the whole life overweight cool looking tables and graphs from open sources. You cannot beat it with all your Rosstat. You are more like a person who knows some area from the photos from space and who’s never been on the ground, but still thinks he knows everything there.

    And how exactly can you come to power after Yeltsin and not be somehow associated with Yeltsin?

    Finally, you are starting to agree with me.

    [MORE]

    Putin removed the most odious Yeltsin era individuals from power. Yeltsin himself was kept under close observation and prevented him from doing any more damage. He allowed them to keep their wealth.

    Really it is a Kremlin made-up mythology, or as you say, “anecdotes and rhetoric”. There is no hard proof of that claim. Hardly anything changed and hardly anybody perished (people like Berizovsky or Khodorkovsky are just a very few from many thousands who continue to live happily).

    He allowed them to keep their wealth. You can criticize that, but there are legitimate counterarguments as well.

    Again, you are starting to follow my point. But he has not allowed, he has guaranteed their wealth. He, as it’s said, a “guarantor”.
    But again it just means he’s changed nothing. Then what’s the difference with Yeltsin? No difference. I bet if Yeltsin were much younger and healthier the Yeltsin’s Russia of the 2000s would show the very same success story of the Putin’s one. The key is the oil-gas-minerals prices, which constituted a principal basis for the growth of Russian economy. And we must remember Russians are smart and enterprising, they would not continue to live miserably under any president. So why we praise Putin for the economic growth but not the hundreds of thousands of Russian entrepreneurs, I do not know. Even in war, everybody agree that wars are fought and won not only by generals but rather by soldiers. But Putin is not even an “economical general”, some businessmen who, let’s say, opened shops somewhere in a provincial town and hence have made a contribution to the local economy hardly owe Putin anything.

    Yes Russia returned a few rustbuckets to Ukraine. None of that made any difference to the military balance between Russia and Ukraine whatsoever.

    You again repeat a Kremlin mythology. I begin to doubt that you are not monitoring Russian state MSM. Otherwise it would be a mystery how you get a so Kremlin friendly worldview if not from the Kremlin outlets or at least pro-Kremlin informants.
    It does not matter if that weaponry was “rusty” (no, it wasn’t, everybody can see how effective it has been at ruining Donetsk), but what matters is the very fact of such a commission already in March 2014. It says about the entire “conflict” more than anything else.

    Also the whole point of Russia’s entire information strategy is that it is not at war with Ukraine, but that is a civil war between Ukrainians.

    Well, it’s failed. Nobody outside of Russia believes that. Particularly, nobody would believe that the Crimea is “occupied” by the “other” Ukraine itself (let’s name them “Blue Ukrainians”, with an allusion to the Russian Civil War ), it is simply a nonsense. And LDNR do not claim officially that they are the “other” Ukraine (Blue or whatever) who have just retreated but anyway want entire Ukraine, but instead they are making a worse version of Transnistria. DNR and LNR even could not unite into one entity, but still live separated, what a shame.

    The quote only says that 39% think that both Russia and Ukraine are to blame. That means 100% Ukrainians blame Russia in one way or in another.

    Re-2. What should Russia have done instead?

    At least the Kremlin might be not so pathetically hypocritical and double-faced liars. Or could lead the army and conquer the Kiev when everything was hot and ready (that is a small window of the unique once-in-a-century opportunity during March-May 2014). But a good point, now everybody knows that and makes no illusions.

    Re-4. Russia has hardly been feeding Ukraine

    You do not know the facts but argue, funny. Ah, I forgot, Rosstat would never say that, hence you never know.

    Re-5. Yes, it is regrettable that merchants would put profits ahead of the national interest. That is hardly unique to Russia however.

    It is not that regrettable, it just shows the actual essence of the conflict.

    I wonder why.

    Because Putin is the best ever known friend of Ukraine, even the most Russophobic version of it. And who said that the Kremlin have ever been against Russophobes? Actual Russophobes have never bothered or worried the Kremlin, quite the contrary. Actually, the Kremlin sees in the Kiev “junta” their old Soviet kin, blood of the blood, and hence the Kremlin shows a great empathy to Kiev. Or, I’d rather say that the Kremlin has been infiltrated by Ukraine sympathizers from October 25, 1917. Some claim there is a Jewish cabal in the Kremlin, but I’d say it has been a Ukrainian one. “Ukrainian” not only ethnically, but in the sense “Ukraine is not Russia”, fundamentally anti-Russian, as the essence of Ukraine is to be anti-Russian.

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