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Deputy Crown Prince Mohammad bin Salman Al Saud, 2017

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The best solutions to difficult problems are simple. The Columbus Egg. The Gordian Knot. The Procrustean Bed. So many people strained their fingers trying to untangle the messy knot, until Alexander came and slashed it open with one fine stroke of his mighty sword. Wise men vainly tried to make an egg stand upright on its end on the table, until Columbus smashed one end. Procrustes solved the problem of the great diversity of population height-wise, by chopping off the legs of the tall and stretching the legs of the short.

Now the glorious if a tad too long name of the Saudi Crown Prince Muhammad bin Salman (or MBS) should join the list of the great solution-makers. He faced the problem of having a broke country, an empty treasury, and a lot of very rich citizens with full coffers.

Trump faces a similar problem; in the US, the top dogs have the whole hog, while the state is in multi-trillion debt. Just three well-to-do gentlemen—Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg—have as much in their coffers as all the ordinary folk. The annual deficit is about $400 billion; the Rockefellers would not even notice if this paltry sum went amiss from their holdings, estimated at well over a trillion dollars, that is twelve zeroes after the first digit.

The Greeks have it even worse: they are in debt, biting the bullet of austerity, while the moneys the Greek state borrowed has lined the pockets of the rich.

The problem is universal. Everywhere, from the UK to Russia and from Brazil to Greece it’s the same: the state coffers are empty, politicians prescribe austerity for the people, while a few rich guys enjoy the fast growth of their untaxed capital.

Now, we know that, but what will you do about it, smart guy? Will you bite your moustache? Will you complain, in sotto voce or loudly, or just drink some cold beer to forget of this unhealthy fact of life? You know that you are not allowed to tax the rich people, you can’t stop them moving their capital offshore, you should not even utter such hateful words as it may be found anti-Semitic. It happened to Trump: when he attacked bankers in his election campaign, he was immediately called an ‘anti-Semite’.

Crown Prince MBS found a solution. He rounded up hundreds of the wealthiest people in his Kingdom, placed them in the posh five-star hotel Ritz Carlton in his capital Riyadh, and told them to cough up the dough. When they laughed at his face, he called for torturers to begin, Mafia-style, his extortion racket.

The Daily Mail, in an exclusive report, tells us that “the Saudi princes and billionaire businessmen arrested in a power grab earlier this month are being strung up by their feet and beaten by American private security contractors. The arrests have been followed by ‘interrogations’ which a source said were being carried out by ‘American mercenaries’. ‘They are beating them, torturing them, slapping them, insulting them. They want to break them down,’ the source told DailyMail.com.

(‘Blackwater’ has been named as the firm involved, and the claim of its presence in Saudi Arabia has also been made on Arabic social media, and by Lebanon’s president. The firm’s successor, Academi, strongly denies even being in Saudi Arabia and says it does not engage in torture.)

The torture in the glamorous hotel had been reported by one of best old-hand journalists in the Middle East, David Hearst. Several detainees were taken to hospital with torture injuries, he writes.

There is a vast difference between ‘incredible’ and ‘impossible’, and the princes of Saudi Arabia learned by their own experience that though it is incredible that these worthies, pillars of society, owners of great hotels in London and film companies in Hollywood would be tortured, it was by no means impossible.

The wealthiest Arab of all, Prince Al-Walid bin al-Talal, a billionaire 18 times over, an “important partner” to Bill Gates, co-owner of 21st Century Fox and Twitter, of Paris’ Hotel George V and London’s Savoy Hotel, inter alia, had been hung upside down, Mussolini-style.

Hundreds of other princes and gentlemen were tortured, too, until they agreed to surrender their ill-gotten assets, 70% of all they have. As I write, and as you read these lines, the torture goes on, and so far MBS has already milked his victims of hundreds of billions $$ worth of cash and assets.

“An Extortion racket”, you’ll exclaim. Perhaps MBS watched The Godfather in his impressionable youth and was impressed by efficiency of their methods. However, he has solved, or rather is in the process of solving, the problem of solvency.

Perhaps this is the method to be advised to Trump and Putin, as well as to other leaders? If the neoliberal dogma forbids taxing, if the offshore are sacred, what remains for a diligent leader but a plush five-star hotel and a band of experienced torturers?

But surely, the torturer will be condemned and ostracised by human rights’ defenders! Not at all. Not a single voice, neither from liberal left nor from authoritarian right objected to this amazing deed of mass torture and extortion. While the co-owner of Twitter has been subjected to daily beatings, the prime voice of liberal conscience, Tom Friedman of the New York Times, eulogised MBS as the bearer of progress. In an article as panegyric as they come, titled Saudi Arabia’s Arab Spring, at Last and subtitled “The crown prince has big plans for his society”.

Tom Friedman does not use the word “extortion”, saying that [MBS’s] “government arrested scores of Saudi princes and businessmen on charges of corruption and threw them into a makeshift gilded jail — the Riyadh Ritz-Carlton — until they agreed to surrender their ill-gotten gains.” No condemnation at all! Can you imagine what he would say if Putin were to arrest his oligarchs “until they agreed to surrender their ill-gotten gains”?

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I believe one line in Friedman’s eulogy, saying that the Saudis are content with the extortion act: “the mood among Saudis I spoke with was: “Just turn them all upside down, shake the money out of their pockets and don’t stop shaking them until it’s all out!” Moreover, I am sure the Americans would applaud if their billionaires were to get the MBS treatment. The Russians were mighty pleased when Putin locked up the oligarch Khodorkovsky, and complained that he was the only one to be jailed. They would love to see the whole lot of oligarchs who plundered Russia through manifestly fraudulent, staged auctions under American advisers in Yeltsin’s days, to be shaken “until it’s all out”.

Not only the media is supportive of the extortion scheme. US Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin told CNBC: “I think that the Crown Prince [Mohammed bin Salman] is doing a great job at transforming the country.” President Trump blessed MBS along similar lines. Not a word of condemnation came out of President Putin, either. Even Al Jazeera, though reporting the extortion in a matter-of-fact way, didn’t make too much out of it.

There is a veritable conspiracy around the MBS actions, a conspiracy embracing the media and governments. He kidnapped the Lebanese Prime Minister, placed him under arrest, took away his telephone and watch, forced him to read on TV a resignation letter composed by MBS people, – and the response of the world has been subdued. He bombed Yemen, causing hundreds of thousands to die of cholera and famine, and the world does not give a damn. Do you remember the response when the Russians bombed Aleppo? None of this indignation accompanies MBS’s war on Yemen.

But the blanket of silence covering the Extortion Racket beats all. Usually, the global media mainstream system propagates and amplifies the news in a game of rebounding agencies that indirectly end up also to maximize headline sales, wrote the Italian journalist Claudio Resta. But in this case, the important and spectacular news made no headlines. In our Society of the Spectacle, failing to exploit the “spectacular” is a waste of the most valuable resource for the media.

The potential for a great spectacle is all here. The arrest of dignitaries and princes of blood, including the famous Al-Walid bin al-Talal, well-known investor and Bakr bin Laden, brother of the most notorious Osama would normally feed the media for days. Add to it the marvelous setting of the glorious hotel on the verge of the desert. Make it even more dramatic by open rocket fire on the escaping helicopter of Prince Mansour bin Muqrin, killing him and the other dignitaries who tried to flee.

Such a story, so brilliant and spectacular, with the colour and costume of a Middle Eastern monarchy, could sell newspapers for a week at least. But it was followed by deafening silence.

The same media that overwhelms us with the flood of details and opinions in a case of human rights violations in Russia or China in this case shows off an Olympic indifference to the fate of the princes and billionaires, unjustly and arbitrarily arrested and tortured in a country of no constitution or Habeas Corpus. The United Nations joins in the conspiracy of silence.

This is probably the most unusual aspect of the story, reminiscent of The Dog that Didn’t Bark by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle. In that Sherlock Holmes story, a dog did not bark during the night when a race horse was removed from a stable, and that indicated that the thief was the dog’s master.

In the case of MBS, the media dog keeps silent. It means that its mighty mega-owner, whom I called The Masters of Discourse, allowed and authorised the racket. We witness a unique media event, bordering with revelation. How could it be that a prince of a third-league state would be allowed the licence to kidnap prime-ministers, kill princes by ground-to-air missiles, keep and torture great businessmen and dignitaries with impunity and the media would keep mum?

Is it fear of the robber barons that the example of MBS extorting billions from his super-rich will be picked up and acted upon in their own lands? Perhaps.

Or, is it more likely that The Axis of Goodness: Trump, Netanyahu and MBS, and the force behind them, that decided to free the hands of the strong-willed prince, who promised to surrender Jerusalem and present Palestine to the Jews in perpetuity? This was the offer of the old Saudis, who became the lords of Arabia because of their willingness to satisfy Jewish desires. For there were equally, or even more prominent Arabian lords and dynasties, with a better claim to rule the peninsula. The Saudis were the only ones ready to give up Palestine. And they were treacherous enough, as they already betrayed their Ottoman masters during the Arab Revolt of Colonel Lawrence.

The so-called Trump Peace Plan, discussed and charted by Jared Kushner and MBS, contains the surrender of Palestine, giving up on the Right of Return of the 1948 refugees, giving up Palestinian sovereignty, giving up Jerusalem. Palestinians will pay, and the Jews and the Saudis will share the spoils.

MBS has to suborn Mahmoud Abbas and the PNA, not an impossible task. Abbas has no mandate, and he rules by Israel’s permission. But he also has to suborn Hamas, otherwise Gaza will remain a thorn in the flesh. This is the reason for the reconciliation efforts between Gaza and the West Bank, Hamas and Fatah managed by Egypt. These efforts meanwhile are not spectacularly successful.

Hamas agreed to reconciliation hoping to improve life of much-suffering Gaza residents. Fatah was supposed to lift sanctions, to allow electricity to pour in, and people to enter and leave via the Rafah checkpoint. However, the sanctions remain in place, life is miserable as it ever was, and now the PNA demand reinstalling thousands of its people fired in 2007. It would lead to firing thousands of Hamas appointees. And worse, the PNA calls for disarmament of Hamas military wing, Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades. This is plainly impossible.

Instead of lifting sanctions, the PNA demands surrender, and blames Iran for Hamas intransigence. Azzam al-Ahmad, the head of Fatah’s delegation for Palestinian reconciliation, said Iran is the “number one sponsor” of division between Palestinian factions. He said that on the Saudi TV channel al-Arabiya.

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Iran is the main (if not the only) hindrance on the way of the Kushner-MBS plan. This partly explains the Saudi fury. Iran’s “supreme leader is the new Hitler of the Middle East,” said MBS to Tom Friedman. – “But we learned from Europe that appeasement doesn’t work. We don’t want the new Hitler in Iran to repeat what happened in Europe in the Middle East.” MBS pinched these words from a Netanyahu UN speech, but he refrained of referring to the source.

Iran blocks MBS’s plan to sell Palestine down the river, it blocks MBS’s war on Yemen, it blocks the takeover of Syria. Really, a new Hitler! But what about the Russians, Iran’s allies in the Syrian war?

The Russians decided to keep out of these events. During the historical recent visit of King Salman and his son MBS to Moscow, apparently the guests explained their ideas to their host. They promised to keep price of oil up, and this is important for Russia. When Saudi Arabia dropped the price of oil in 1980s, the USSR collapsed. Now, with high oil price, Putin has decided to pay 10,000 roubles, ($150) per month to each family upon birth of their first child. Apparently, the Saudis agreed to the Russian presence in Syria, too.

Putin is a man of reason; he is satisfied with half a loaf, he is not overreaching. He learned the lesson of the Iliad, of the Greek and Trojan Princes who could have had almost all they wished, – Greeks could have had Helen and a rich ransom, the Trojans could have allowed the Greeks to escape, – but they reached for more, for total destruction of their enemy, and eventually they lost all. Simone Weil wrote: “The tempered use of force, indispensable to the escape from its [force’s] machinery, would demand superhuman virtue, as rare as steadfast dignity in weakness.” This is Putin, in both his tempered use of force and in his steadfast dignity in weakness.

However, while Russian policies differ from Western ones, the Russian media was incorporated into the Masters of Discourse’s domain many years ago. Putin succeeded in partially releasing some TV channels from their clutches, but in general the Russian media follows the same guidelines as the Western media. An anti-Zionist article, a critique of Jewish rule in Palestine has as little (or less) chance to appear in Izvestia, as in the NY Times. An honest coverage of Gaza blockade is equally impossible on the CNN and on Russia 1st Channel and the RT.

Now, the critique and discussion of the KSA events in Russia has been blocked. The same people who block discussion of Israel/Palestine now block the discussion of the KSA crisis.

Thus, Iran and war-weakened Syria are all that stand on the way of a decisive Jewish victory in the Middle East. If a hundred years ago, the Jews pushed the unwilling US into WWI as a payoff for the Balfour Declaration, probably now they can repeat it to railroad the Kushner-MBS peace plan over Palestinian heads. For over this hundred years, the Jewish positions in mind control have only improved, via Facebook and Google.

Their plans are likely to misfire, as all MBS plans did. There was nothing he yet succeeded in achieving, from pressuring Qatar to vanquishing Yemen. A lot of blood and a lot of money will flow, adding to miseries in the Middle East and elsewhere.

The only satisfaction is that now you know who owns the dog that did not bark.

Israel Shamir can be reached at adam@israelshamir.net

This article was first published at The Unz Review.

 
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  1. utu says:
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  2. It was an earlier MBS (mortgage-backed securities) that helped push the world economy over the edge in 2008. Is this the MBS who will push us over the edge in 2018?

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Superb metaphor for what happened in SA. The royals were suddenly foreclosed upon by the US Treasury Department's long tendrils which have always formed the basis of the House of Saud: Empire giveth and taketh away.
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  3. Cortes says:

    Fascinating piece. Thank you.

    (Minor quibble: the Holmes story was “Silver Blaze” – https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Adventure_of_Silver_Blaze).

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  4. “Procrustes solved the problem of the great diversity of population height-wise, by chopping off the legs of the tall and stretching the legs of the short.”

    That until he lost his head, being exactly one heard too long ;)

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    • Replies: @dobero
    Yes, indeed. MBS will have his chopped off in good time.
    Fascinating account, Mr. Shamir, thank you.
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  5. Brabantian says: • Website

    Very noble compassion for the Palestianians here, by the Jewish Christian Israel Shamir … and quite on target when Shamir writes

    Is it fear of the robber barons that the example of MBS extorting billions from his super-rich will be picked up and acted upon in their own lands? Perhaps.

    Every billionaire in the world must be, at least subconsciously, very un-nerved by these stories from Saudi Arabia

    The beating & torture of the billionaires underscores how fragile is the power & wealth of such people

    Saudi billionaires now perhaps suffering, as they have allowed & enabled so many others to be tortured & suffer

    Everything billionaires have, depends on a certain legal structure – which can change overnight – and on the loyalty of security services – which can change overnight

    As was true in ancient Rome, where the Praetorian Guard giving security to the emperors, eventually chose the emperors & controlled the empire

    And there is no place to hide … as Shamir notes, USA, China & Russia apparently all ‘backing’ Mohammed bin Salman with his ‘reforms’ in Saudi Arabia … as apparently also the other recent coup d’état in Zimbabwe, where ‘one Chinese-backed regime is being replaced by another Chinese-backed regime’

    As was seen with Mubarak in Egypt etc, once these international billionaires lose their role in the ‘global order’, the Swiss & other banks holding their assets suddenly ‘realise’ they are holding ‘funds obtained by corruption’ & the assets are seized

    And given the often-evil lives of such people, there is limited concern when it is the billionaires’ turn to be beaten by the goons

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    But why was this particular band of billionaires chosen? What is the unifying factor? What should we call them? And what sets them apart from all the other bands of billionaires throughout the world who are turning a blind eye?

    Power and money always overlap. So why has this particular group been cut adrift from the pack?
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  6. Tom Welsh says:

    “When they laughed at his face, he called for torturers to begin, Mafia-style, his extortion racket”.

    No matter how hard I try, I simply cannot see how what MBS did is so different from ordinary taxation. In both cases the underlying proposition is, “Your money or your life”. And governments sometimes see the merits of not even allowing their victims an easy death – instead, sending them to one of the West’s hell-hole prisons, where they will likely be tortured more horribly by their fellow-inmates than by MBS’ professionals.

    Consider. MBS invited the mugs to congregate, which they did – in retrospect, a rapid exit to Argentina, New Zealand or Florida might have been more prudent. Once they were in his physical power, he demanded money with menaces.

    Here in the UK, every year the government demands a substantial sum of money (substantial to me, at least) in taxes. If I refuse to pay – let alone laugh in their faces – they would take the money from my bank. Or if I drew out all my money and kept it as cash or gold, they would send police to take it. If I resisted, they would overwhelm me. If I armed myself to compensate for the odds against me, they would kill me.

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    • Replies: @Wally
    Excellent points.

    Try 'owning' a house if you fail to pay 'property taxes'.
    Try 'owning' a car if you fail pay 'registration fees'.
    The gasoline 'fee' in CA is now 1 dollar per gallon, oil company profits are 5 cents per gallon.

    On & on it goes.

    We work for them, they do not work for us.

    Regards.

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  7. alexander says:

    The central issue for us in the USA, Mr. Shamir, is NOT “Billionaire Oligarchs “……Its FRAUD!

    Where is the “accountability” for the heinous “war fraud” , “terror fraud”, and “banking fraud” foisted on the American Taxpayer over the last 16 years ?

    Where is it ?

    This is the greatest and most important “unanswered” question of our time .

    Nothing else even comes close.

    There is no greater priority for the American Taxpayer than holding those who defrauded us to account.

    None.

    If you don’t think so, Mr Shamir , then let me ask you a few questions…

    Why should the taxpayer be on the hook for tens of trillions of dollars of DEBT created by wars we were LIED INTO ?

    Why not take one simple national POLL….and ask 320 million Americans if they feel they SHOULD BE ?

    “Do you feel you should pay for a war you were deceived into ?”

    “Do you like (or accept) being defrauded out of your money ?”

    “Should you be stuck with the bill or should the defrauders be stuck with the bill ?”

    I can virtually guarantee the certainty of a unanimous 99.99% reply that…

    ” THE DEFRAUDERS SHOULD BE STUCK WITH THE BILL !”

    To date ,there has been ZERO “accountability” for the pernicious deceptions which has holocaust-ed our national solvency by $14,500,000,000,000.00 in a mere 17 years.

    WHY ?

    Is it really acceptable to be “lied into war” ?

    Who says so ?

    Is it acceptable to be defrauded out of tens of trillions of our tax dollars to prosecute a war we were lied into ?

    Who says so ?

    Is “taxation through FALSE representation” really A OKAY with the taxpayer ?

    Who says ?

    It stands to reason that ANY and ALL “Billionaire Oligarchs” who were complicit in this crime…SHOULD PAY FOR THE COST OF THEIR CRIME….The WHOLE WAY.

    This SHOULD BE the top priority of this administration and every administration from here on in, until our coffers are replenished with the assets of all those who deceived us out of our money, in the first place.

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    • Replies: @jacques sheete

    Where is the “accountability”
     
    Indeed. Where is it?

    The lack of accountability in the proposed cornstitution of the US was one of the key objections to it by the anti-federalists, and time has proven them both accurate and prescient once again.

    Corporations as well as governments are designed to absolve the money grubbers of accountability and to socialize risk while privatizing and concentrating wealth and power.

    “This, Sir, is my great objection to the Constitution, that there is no true responsibility – and that the preservation of our liberty depends on the single chance of men being virtuous...”



    “The Senate can, with the President, make treaties, that shall be the supreme law of the land: They may make the most ruinous treaties; and yet there is no punishment for them.”

    -Patrick Henry June 5 and 7, 1788―1788-1789 Petersburg, Virginia edition of the Debates and other Proceedings . . . Of the Virginia Convention of 1788

     

    , @RadicalCenter
    I'd have no strenuous objection IF (1) the expropriation stopped at the extremely wealthy who have ill-gotten gains and/or who have used their power to agitate for the immivasion replacement of my people -- Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates, Zuckerberg, George Soros, Sheldon Adelson, Carlos Slim, and their ilk -- and (2) the money is used to pay down the fed gov debt, not spent on new commitments that will again become unaffordable in the future.

    But how likely is that prudent scenario?
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  8. Tom Welsh says:

    “But we learned from Europe that appeasement doesn’t work. We don’t want the new Hitler in Iran to repeat what happened in Europe in the Middle East.”

    As we might expect in something quoted (without acknowledgement) by Friedman, this statement itself is a tissue of horrible nonsense. If such a thing were conceivable, one might almost say that every individual word is a lie. Oddly enough, it is the apparently more-or-less acceptable first sentence to which I take the strongest exception.

    As Hegel observed, “We learn from history that we do not learn from history”. If anyone had learned that “appeasement doesn’t work”, successive US governments would have had a much harder time of it subduing the world since the days of Teddy Roosevelt and Woodrow Wilson. Everywhere we see Washington being cravenly appeased – even by Moscow.

    Mark Twain remarked perceptively that, “It is not worth while to try to keep history from repeating itself, for man’s character will always make the preventing of the repetitions impossible”.

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    • Agree: jacques sheete
    • Replies: @skrik

    Oddly enough, it is the apparently more-or-less acceptable first sentence [that appeasement doesn’t work] to which I take the strongest exception.
     
    Not so oddly, actually.

    It's a 'perfect' example of Godwin's law, and here, it labels Friedman as a pro-Z, lying propagandist. Of course, Friedman goes on to deploy Hitler anyway, but it's often not what is said but how; 'appeasement' is a cultivated emotional trigger word.

    Quelle surprise!

    But there is a message; when we detect such ugliness, we know that this bit of the 'standard narrative' is a lie, and no worthwhile project needs trying to invoke a 'lie screen.' rgds
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  9. Greg Bacon says: • Website

    Not only did MBS use torture to extort money from his fellow Saudis, there was also the implied threat of getting their head chopped off, since the Kingdom is going to set another record this year for lopping off heads.

    That threat alone would of been enough to loosen the purse strings of any Saudi prince.

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  10. In my mind, this is a huge key concept, and one that way too few realize…

    If a hundred years ago, [certain international bankers, not necessarily Jews] pushed the unwilling US into WWI …

    Something similar happened in WW2 as well. Banksters built up Germany so it could weaken Russia, then they threw Germany under the bus and took what they had, making both states puppets, or at least dependent, at least temporarily.

    It was typical Brit “diplomacy” which was as masterful as it was deadly. And the banksters profit to this day. I’d like to see the lot of them get the Abu Ghraib treatment for the rest of their miserable lives.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Thirdeye

    If a hundred years ago, [certain international bankers, not necessarily Jews] pushed the unwilling US into WWI …
     
    Good catch. The whole idea that the bankers who led the charge into WWI were Jewish is based on thin and, at best, ambiguous evidence. There was one document by British Jewish leaders ca. 1940 pleading for Britain to create a Jewish armed force in Palestine, which referred to the purportedly indispensable role of Jews in helping Britain in WWI. IMO that claim is self-serving and carries no weight as historical authority. Then there's the James Malcolm declaration on the process that led Lord Balfour to promise Palestine to Jews in return for their help with Britain's war aims. An objective reading of it shows that it was more about overcoming Jewish foot-dragging on war on the side of the Russian Tsar. That aspect is discussed on page 3.

    http://www.mailstar.net/Malcolm-front-cover.gif

    http://www.mailstar.net/Malcolm-inside-cover.gif

    http://www.mailstar.net/Malcolm-p.1.gif

    http://www.mailstar.net/Malcolm-p.2.gif

    http://www.mailstar.net/Malcolm-p.3.gif

    http://www.mailstar.net/Malcolm-p.4.gif

    http://www.mailstar.net/Malcolm-p.5.gif

    http://www.mailstar.net/Malcolm-p.6.gif

    http://www.mailstar.net/Malcolm-p.7.gif

    http://www.mailstar.net/Malcolm-p.8.gif

    http://www.mailstar.net/Malcolm-p.9.gif

    http://www.mailstar.net/Malcolm-p.10.gif

    http://www.mailstar.net/Malcolm-p.11.gif

    http://www.mailstar.net/Malcolm-p.12.gif

    The operators of the stinky website that hosts those image files have done a service by sharing the information showing that the Malcolm Declaration does not support their case that Jews led the American charge into WWI. By the time Untermeyer and Brandeis got flipped the war drums were already beating and those in the Wilson Administration who adhered to the law on neutrality, such as William Jennings Bryan, had already been purged. The WASP banking establishment, which was heavily invested in the British war effort, was leading the charge.
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  11. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Brabantian
    Very noble compassion for the Palestianians here, by the Jewish Christian Israel Shamir ... and quite on target when Shamir writes


    Is it fear of the robber barons that the example of MBS extorting billions from his super-rich will be picked up and acted upon in their own lands? Perhaps.

     

    Every billionaire in the world must be, at least subconsciously, very un-nerved by these stories from Saudi Arabia

    The beating & torture of the billionaires underscores how fragile is the power & wealth of such people

    Saudi billionaires now perhaps suffering, as they have allowed & enabled so many others to be tortured & suffer

    Everything billionaires have, depends on a certain legal structure - which can change overnight - and on the loyalty of security services - which can change overnight

    As was true in ancient Rome, where the Praetorian Guard giving security to the emperors, eventually chose the emperors & controlled the empire

    And there is no place to hide ... as Shamir notes, USA, China & Russia apparently all 'backing' Mohammed bin Salman with his 'reforms' in Saudi Arabia ... as apparently also the other recent coup d'état in Zimbabwe, where 'one Chinese-backed regime is being replaced by another Chinese-backed regime'

    As was seen with Mubarak in Egypt etc, once these international billionaires lose their role in the 'global order', the Swiss & other banks holding their assets suddenly 'realise' they are holding 'funds obtained by corruption' & the assets are seized

    And given the often-evil lives of such people, there is limited concern when it is the billionaires' turn to be beaten by the goons

    But why was this particular band of billionaires chosen? What is the unifying factor? What should we call them? And what sets them apart from all the other bands of billionaires throughout the world who are turning a blind eye?

    Power and money always overlap. So why has this particular group been cut adrift from the pack?

    Read More
    • Replies: @alexander
    I think this is the 640 billion dollar question.

    Mr. Shamir refers to the "ill gotten" gains of these Saudi oligarchs, but cannot tell us how or why they are "ill gotten".

    Furthermore, we are unable to see which oligarchs, with "ill gotten" gains, escaped unscathed, and why.

    In short, we are unable to gauge the levels of duplicity and hypocrisy, at work, in the crackdown.

    Mr. Shamir tells us Saudi Arabia is "broke" but does not tell us why it is "broke".

    Certainly the price hike at the pump from our Iraq war, from $1.29 a gallon to almost $5.50 a gallon(at peak) represented perhaps several trillions of dollars in pure profit for Saudi Arabia (and others) over the six year time frame.

    Could it have squandered all that "extra"money quite so fast ?

    The "night of the long knives" in the kingdom represents an extraordinary consolidation of wealth and power into the hands of one very young Monarch.

    One wonders what his plans are over the next several years and who will benefit most from them.
    , @75
    Despite their enormous wealth it would seem they have actual little power if this is their fate. After all most of them are essentially glorified welfare queens suckling at the rapidly drying teat of the Saudi oil coffers on the basis of a distant relation to Al Saud. Maybe they were too complacent, convinced that the usually glacial rate of change in KSA politics would hold and MBS was all bark and no bite. They also don't really do anything necessary to the KSA with (again) most of them just being parasites and the few that do conduct business being both massively corrupt and producing negligible profit for KSA.
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  12. Always an interesting read, worth contemplating. A reasoned Au Contraire brings events into relief so that those silent dogs raise a veritable alarum. Subversive as hell to the preferred narratives.

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  13. geokat62 says:

    The only satisfaction is that now you know who owns the dog that did not bark.

    When most of the dogs are owned by one particular group of people, it’s not too difficult, these days, even for The Dumb Goyim to infer who the owners are.

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    • Replies: @jacques sheete

    When most of the dogs are owned by one particular group of people, it’s not too difficult, these days, even for The Dumb Goyim to infer who the owners are.
     
    And their sycophants have the audacity to sneer at us for being "obsessed" with the usual gangsters!

    Anyway, I'd value your input as to whether this really happened or not. Sounds too good to be true; probably fake news Way too much publicity for it to be what it it's supposed to appear to be.

    Anyway, I'd be happy if something similar happened in the US and Israel, too, not that it would do much good, but it would be fun to watch.
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  14. Thank you Mr. Shamir for an insightful article!
    I am now able to connect the dots and understand why so many rabid neo-conservatives like David Goldman and Tom Friedman, and friends, are applauding this MBS goon.

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  15. alexander says:
    @Anonymous
    But why was this particular band of billionaires chosen? What is the unifying factor? What should we call them? And what sets them apart from all the other bands of billionaires throughout the world who are turning a blind eye?

    Power and money always overlap. So why has this particular group been cut adrift from the pack?

    I think this is the 640 billion dollar question.

    Mr. Shamir refers to the “ill gotten” gains of these Saudi oligarchs, but cannot tell us how or why they are “ill gotten”.

    Furthermore, we are unable to see which oligarchs, with “ill gotten” gains, escaped unscathed, and why.

    In short, we are unable to gauge the levels of duplicity and hypocrisy, at work, in the crackdown.

    Mr. Shamir tells us Saudi Arabia is “broke” but does not tell us why it is “broke”.

    Certainly the price hike at the pump from our Iraq war, from $1.29 a gallon to almost $5.50 a gallon(at peak) represented perhaps several trillions of dollars in pure profit for Saudi Arabia (and others) over the six year time frame.

    Could it have squandered all that “extra”money quite so fast ?

    The “night of the long knives” in the kingdom represents an extraordinary consolidation of wealth and power into the hands of one very young Monarch.

    One wonders what his plans are over the next several years and who will benefit most from them.

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    • Replies: @Anon
    "One wonders what his plans are over the next several years and who will benefit most from them."
    --- Shamir actully gives very clear cues: "There is a veritable conspiracy around the MBS actions … the blanket of silence covering the Extortion Racket beats all. … This is probably the most unusual aspect of the story, reminiscent of The Dog that Didn’t Bark by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle. It means that its mighty mega-owner, whom I called The Masters of Discourse, allowed and authorised the racket. ...
    Iran is the main (if not the only) hindrance on the way of the Kushner-MBS plan. This partly explains the Saudi fury. Iran’s “supreme leader is the new Hitler of the Middle East,” said MBS to Tom Friedman. … MBS pinched these words from a Netanyahu UN speech, but he refrained of referring to the source.”
    --- Israel occupies the US Congress and beyond. MSM presstitutes for the powerful. The clown prince is a patsy for the mega-owner.
    , @TheJester
    Having lived and worked in Saudi Arabia and the Middle East for a decade with normal powers of observation, yes, I can conclude that the gains of the Saudi princes are "ill-gotten".

    Nothing moves in Saudi Arabia without baksheesh ... loosely translated as "bribery" that operates as a cover for massive corruption or, as it is practiced in Africa, euphemistically showering power brokers with massive "appreciation" ahead of whatever needs to get done.

    Baksheesh is also known as "walking money" for people who need to pay off anyone and everyone who have the power to intervene to keep something from happening.

    Indeed, it is theoretically possible for power brokers to demand so much baksheesh that it consumes a project's entire budget, leaving nothing for execution. I ran into a number of these in my time in the Middle East. I also heard about a few in Yeltsin's Russia. Laughable ... all the way to the bank for the power brokers, anyway.

    It is interesting to see that a number of Saudi princes with whom I interacted are now living in the Riyadh Ritz Carlton.

    To understand why they are there, I recall the euphemism in the Middle East that, if you are in legal trouble, there is something wrong with your politics.

    Regardless, "There is a God ...." Nixon had it coming, and now some of the Saudi princes are getting their just due.
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  16. WHAT says:

    Interesting version for sure Mr. Shamir, but a cursory look at russian media reveals at least some articles on recent Saudi happenings.

    This is a very pro-Kremlin site thing:

    https://vz.ru/world/2017/11/9/894425.html

    https://vz.ru/opinions/2017/11/14/895166.html

    https://vz.ru/news/2017/11/24/896702.html

    And this is a very anti-Kremlin site thing:

    https://echo.msk.ru/news/2086558-echo.html

    https://echo.msk.ru/news/2097674-echo.html

    I don`t know if it is discussed on television though.

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    • Replies: @Israel Shamir
    Thank you for your selection! Let us look into it. First, pro-Kremlin. One, quoting MBS that Iran is Hitler, no comment. The second piece you referred to is an opinion by Mr Satanovsky, a leading Israel lobbyist in Russia, and his opinion is all that an Israeli lobbyist is likely to have. Third is supportive of MBS and says the West is not good enough to him because he didn't study in the West. Now for anti-Kremlin. One is just news flash about anticorruption campaign. Another is a very brief reference to the Daily Mail article I quote in my piece, again no comment. Even this item appeared after I posted it on the FB (I am widely read on the Russian FB). So, as I said, it is an Israeli opinion or a brief news report, as a rule.
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  17. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @The Alarmist
    It was an earlier MBS (mortgage-backed securities) that helped push the world economy over the edge in 2008. Is this the MBS who will push us over the edge in 2018?

    Superb metaphor for what happened in SA. The royals were suddenly foreclosed upon by the US Treasury Department’s long tendrils which have always formed the basis of the House of Saud: Empire giveth and taketh away.

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  18. Joe Hide says:

    Wow!
    Mr. Shamir, Your writing style is mind bogglingly fascinating. The way You put ideas, historical content, and humor together make it hard to not read the whole article (Which is the case for most articles by most readers). I’m a fan. Keep it up.

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  19. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Don’t we have gangsters in charge of the USA? They are our gangsters of course. The idea that a sole personality is “cleaning house” or “draining the swamp” is an absurdity foisted upon the public by fiction professionals.

    Here we see Israel (off the beaten path) track his more well read associate Thomas Friedman of the New York Times.

    Tell us a story of the mercenaries hanging the journalists upside down and slapping them. In a way, it is happening, although I don’t expect anyone would notice if Schmear grabbed someone’s ass at the CIA. Friedman however.

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  20. Jake says:

    “This was the offer of the old Saudis, who became the lords of Arabia because of their willingness to satisfy Jewish desires.”

    Why was that the case? Because WASP culture was born of a Judaizing heresy and necessarily produces pro-Jewish politics. And the WASP-run British Empire was going to muddle around until it gave jews what their most vocal members and richest bankers wanted.

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  21. Sherman says:

    “Just three well-to-do gentlemen – Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg”

    I love these dudes. I’ve been buying AMZN, MSFT and FB stock in semi-regular increments for years.

    I’ve been riding on their coattails and doing very well!

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    • Replies: @jacques sheete

    I’ve been riding on their coattails and doing very well!
     
    Way to miss the big point of the article.

    More proof that one doesn't need brains to have shekels. ;)
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  22. The world is enslaved to the Zionist bankers and this is not by accident, it was planned long ago and with the fiat debt creation by the FED and their related Zionist owned central banks and their creation of wars including WWI , WWII , KOREAN WI, VIETNAM W, MIDEAST WARS, ETC., the Zionist privately owned central banks have bankrupted the world.

    Anyone who doubts this, please read THE PROTOCOLS OF ZION.

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  23. IRStopo says:

    Obviously Trump set up a training class for MBS to learn all the best techniques that the IRS could teach him.

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  24. Pro-Putin propaganda dressed up as (very mild!) anti-Putin propaganda, with the usual mass of detail just to bog people down.

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    • Replies: @Wally
    Indeed, Putin should be praised & supported.

    But where is the proof that 'Russia & Trump colluded to get Trump elected'?

    And you won't like this at all:

    Trump Declares "National Day for the Victims of Communism."
    https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2017/11/07/national-day-victims-communism
    Liars of the scamming "Holocau$t Industry" go crazy:
    https://www.salon.com/2017/11/07/trumps-national-day-for-the-victims-of-communism-is-opposite-of-holocaust-statement/

    , @Anon
    You feel apparently insulted that the newly-minted best friend of Israel, clown prince MbS, was exposed as extortionist. Have you noticed that Russian press was not interested in the extortion story?
    As for MSM, they become excited with a shooting only when some Jewish dealer (like Nemtsov) is murdered by some Chechens (as part of dirty dealings). But when the shooting of a helicopter with a bunch of wealthy guys is done by an Israeli friend, everything is honky-dory (according to Mr. Kenney).
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  25. @WHAT
    Interesting version for sure Mr. Shamir, but a cursory look at russian media reveals at least some articles on recent Saudi happenings.

    This is a very pro-Kremlin site thing:
    https://vz.ru/world/2017/11/9/894425.html
    https://vz.ru/opinions/2017/11/14/895166.html
    https://vz.ru/news/2017/11/24/896702.html

    And this is a very anti-Kremlin site thing:
    https://echo.msk.ru/news/2086558-echo.html
    https://echo.msk.ru/news/2097674-echo.html

    I don`t know if it is discussed on television though.

    Thank you for your selection! Let us look into it. First, pro-Kremlin. One, quoting MBS that Iran is Hitler, no comment. The second piece you referred to is an opinion by Mr Satanovsky, a leading Israel lobbyist in Russia, and his opinion is all that an Israeli lobbyist is likely to have. Third is supportive of MBS and says the West is not good enough to him because he didn’t study in the West. Now for anti-Kremlin. One is just news flash about anticorruption campaign. Another is a very brief reference to the Daily Mail article I quote in my piece, again no comment. Even this item appeared after I posted it on the FB (I am widely read on the Russian FB). So, as I said, it is an Israeli opinion or a brief news report, as a rule.

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    • Replies: @survey-of-disinfo

    Mr Satanovsky, a leading Israel lobbyist in Russia
     
    I laughed so hard, thank you Mr. Shamir. Satan, indeed.

    But let's backup to your piece, lest we sully ourselves with the dreaded anti-, and get clarification on: did you just basically say uncle Putin is in with the nasties?

    That's the first question. The second question is, is it possible that you're blowing smoke here with the class warfare justice playing anti-, oops, mr. Flat Earth himself? Kinda reverse blowjob, ala the hit piece b over at the moon of alabama? You know, Friedman swallows, and you don't, that sort of thing.

    Thirdly, I've always wanted to ask a celebrity dissident like yourself -- blush -- I have this theory of mine, you know as I'm sitting at the bar, crying into my mug, shrugging off the ooh injustices of this cruel cruel world, knowing I could never be like MbS getting blowjobs in both directions from celebrity wordsmith on ze internet. Boo Hoo. Too bad we don't have pouty putty pretty princes in our neck of the woods to hang say Eric Schmidt upside down while getting a bit of "harsh treatment" -- that per our own Mr. President ala Twitter (oh the irony) -- while a few Alphabet shares falls down to the floor from his pockets? Oh, that would be grand.

    And as I was pondering those self defeating thoughts, Mr. Israel Shamir, it occured to me, you see, that maybe, any old talking head embodied or not-, is ain't gonna be on the global tele unless they are working for the fucking man, what do you think?

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  26. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    Ah, Mr. Shamir. Solid article, a cultivated journalist that sees what is, and interprets the next move. Bravo for the Weil quote. The Masters of Discourse are the children of those Masters of Suspicion, Freud and Nietzsche, but you know that. Google, Facebook, et al, however, cannot win in the end. As somebody said: “The truth is like a lion, you don’t need to defend it. Set it free, it will defend itself.”

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  27. A brilliant article cleverly thought out and presented in a extremely intelligent and unique way that entirely and completely makes clear the illusionary matrix we in the West live in and puts the hypocrisy of western media into crystal clear perspective and ignites the imagination!

    Tony W BA
    Politics and International Economic Relations

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  28. skrik says:

    Abbas has no mandate

    Correct, and more than ‘merely’ none. A representative is only such, as long as s/he faithfully represents the majority opinion of the electorate = here they, the Ps. IF so-called reps sell the people out THEN in the words already used in here, ‘off with their heads!’

    Try this word: *Inalienable*.

    COED: adjective – unable to be taken away from or given away by the possessor.

    Then, try this list of inalienable rights, UDHR:

    Article 3.
    • Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.
    Article 17.
    • (1) Everyone has the right to own property alone as well as in association with others.
    • (2) No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his property.

    Of course, that’s only ‘International Law,’ exactly what the US/Z, KSA et al. scoff-laws defy.

    But there’s a BIG BUT: The Ps have rightly resisted surrender since the post-Herzl alien invasion by poorly disguised stealth began. Recall inalienable above; the Ps cannot, *may not* surrender their rights – and good on ‘em for knowing that; my support to the Ps: Keep on keeping on; it’s your land, never to belong to any illegal entity. Just say “No!”

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  29. Wally says: • Website
    @Tom Welsh
    "When they laughed at his face, he called for torturers to begin, Mafia-style, his extortion racket".

    No matter how hard I try, I simply cannot see how what MBS did is so different from ordinary taxation. In both cases the underlying proposition is, "Your money or your life". And governments sometimes see the merits of not even allowing their victims an easy death - instead, sending them to one of the West's hell-hole prisons, where they will likely be tortured more horribly by their fellow-inmates than by MBS' professionals.

    Consider. MBS invited the mugs to congregate, which they did - in retrospect, a rapid exit to Argentina, New Zealand or Florida might have been more prudent. Once they were in his physical power, he demanded money with menaces.

    Here in the UK, every year the government demands a substantial sum of money (substantial to me, at least) in taxes. If I refuse to pay - let alone laugh in their faces - they would take the money from my bank. Or if I drew out all my money and kept it as cash or gold, they would send police to take it. If I resisted, they would overwhelm me. If I armed myself to compensate for the odds against me, they would kill me.

    Excellent points.

    Try ‘owning’ a house if you fail to pay ‘property taxes’.
    Try ‘owning’ a car if you fail pay ‘registration fees’.
    The gasoline ‘fee’ in CA is now 1 dollar per gallon, oil company profits are 5 cents per gallon.

    On & on it goes.

    We work for them, they do not work for us.

    Regards.

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    • Replies: @advancedatheist
    How does taxation differ from paying a mortgage? Men with guns will show up at your doorstep eventually if you don't keep up with your mortgage payments - yet libertarians call this situation "enforcement of contract" because a private business has deployed the threat of violence against you to collect the money you owe it.
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  30. The Rocks, the Zuck-Cuck, Gates, Bezos, Carlos Slim if he ever comes here. Upside down, all of them, their wives, their children. No contractors needed, I’ll beat their feet for them for free. Cattle prods, whatever you got. It isn’t their money that I want so much. What I want is a reckoning. It’s that they hate me anyway, all the United States is for them is shelter. The Jews among them in the media they run ruined our discourses, stole the last morsels, helped ruin the women. And then handed it OVER to the women on top of it all. And so, why defend them? WW2 was the last time, they’re flat out of sanctuary in the world.

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  31. @alexander
    The central issue for us in the USA, Mr. Shamir, is NOT "Billionaire Oligarchs "......Its FRAUD!

    Where is the "accountability" for the heinous "war fraud" , "terror fraud", and "banking fraud" foisted on the American Taxpayer over the last 16 years ?

    Where is it ?

    This is the greatest and most important "unanswered" question of our time .

    Nothing else even comes close.

    There is no greater priority for the American Taxpayer than holding those who defrauded us to account.

    None.



    If you don't think so, Mr Shamir , then let me ask you a few questions...

    Why should the taxpayer be on the hook for tens of trillions of dollars of DEBT created by wars we were LIED INTO ?

    Why not take one simple national POLL....and ask 320 million Americans if they feel they SHOULD BE ?


    "Do you feel you should pay for a war you were deceived into ?"

    "Do you like (or accept) being defrauded out of your money ?"

    "Should you be stuck with the bill or should the defrauders be stuck with the bill ?"

    I can virtually guarantee the certainty of a unanimous 99.99% reply that...

    " THE DEFRAUDERS SHOULD BE STUCK WITH THE BILL !"

    To date ,there has been ZERO "accountability" for the pernicious deceptions which has holocaust-ed our national solvency by $14,500,000,000,000.00 in a mere 17 years.

    WHY ?

    Is it really acceptable to be "lied into war" ?

    Who says so ?

    Is it acceptable to be defrauded out of tens of trillions of our tax dollars to prosecute a war we were lied into ?

    Who says so ?

    Is "taxation through FALSE representation" really A OKAY with the taxpayer ?

    Who says ?





    It stands to reason that ANY and ALL "Billionaire Oligarchs" who were complicit in this crime...SHOULD PAY FOR THE COST OF THEIR CRIME....The WHOLE WAY.

    This SHOULD BE the top priority of this administration and every administration from here on in, until our coffers are replenished with the assets of all those who deceived us out of our money, in the first place.

    Where is the “accountability”

    Indeed. Where is it?

    The lack of accountability in the proposed cornstitution of the US was one of the key objections to it by the anti-federalists, and time has proven them both accurate and prescient once again.

    Corporations as well as governments are designed to absolve the money grubbers of accountability and to socialize risk while privatizing and concentrating wealth and power.

    “This, Sir, is my great objection to the Constitution, that there is no true responsibility – and that the preservation of our liberty depends on the single chance of men being virtuous…”

    “The Senate can, with the President, make treaties, that shall be the supreme law of the land: They may make the most ruinous treaties; and yet there is no punishment for them.”

    -Patrick Henry June 5 and 7, 1788―1788-1789 Petersburg, Virginia edition of the Debates and other Proceedings . . . Of the Virginia Convention of 1788

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    • Replies: @alexander
    Hi Jacques,

    I've read our constitution.

    Its preamble is pretty self explanatory as to the role of government.......Provide for the common defense, Promote the general welfare, and Secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity.

    Nowhere in the constitution does it say its okay to lie us into war.

    If there is absence of accountability for the nightmare of criminal war and heinous insolvency thrust upon us,(especially since 9-11) it does not grow out of the framework of our constitution, but the incapacity of our deeply corrupt and compromised leaders to apply the law....... and right the wrong.
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  32. skrik says:
    @Tom Welsh
    “But we learned from Europe that appeasement doesn’t work. We don’t want the new Hitler in Iran to repeat what happened in Europe in the Middle East.”

    As we might expect in something quoted (without acknowledgement) by Friedman, this statement itself is a tissue of horrible nonsense. If such a thing were conceivable, one might almost say that every individual word is a lie. Oddly enough, it is the apparently more-or-less acceptable first sentence to which I take the strongest exception.

    As Hegel observed, "We learn from history that we do not learn from history". If anyone had learned that "appeasement doesn't work", successive US governments would have had a much harder time of it subduing the world since the days of Teddy Roosevelt and Woodrow Wilson. Everywhere we see Washington being cravenly appeased - even by Moscow.

    Mark Twain remarked perceptively that, "It is not worth while to try to keep history from repeating itself, for man's character will always make the preventing of the repetitions impossible".

    Oddly enough, it is the apparently more-or-less acceptable first sentence [that appeasement doesn’t work] to which I take the strongest exception.

    Not so oddly, actually.

    It’s a ‘perfect’ example of Godwin’s law, and here, it labels Friedman as a pro-Z, lying propagandist. Of course, Friedman goes on to deploy Hitler anyway, but it’s often not what is said but how; ‘appeasement’ is a cultivated emotional trigger word.

    Quelle surprise!

    But there is a message; when we detect such ugliness, we know that this bit of the ‘standard narrative’ is a lie, and no worthwhile project needs trying to invoke a ‘lie screen.’ rgds

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  33. Wally says: • Website
    @Michael Kenny
    Pro-Putin propaganda dressed up as (very mild!) anti-Putin propaganda, with the usual mass of detail just to bog people down.

    Indeed, Putin should be praised & supported.

    But where is the proof that ‘Russia & Trump colluded to get Trump elected’?

    And you won’t like this at all:

    Trump Declares “National Day for the Victims of Communism.”

    https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2017/11/07/national-day-victims-communism

    Liars of the scamming “Holocau$t Industry” go crazy:

    https://www.salon.com/2017/11/07/trumps-national-day-for-the-victims-of-communism-is-opposite-of-holocaust-statement/

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  34. I could see a Bud Light commercial with this guy and his fellow Muslims on the panel. Dilly! Dilly! To the Chamber of Misery! Dilly! Dilly!

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  35. @geokat62

    The only satisfaction is that now you know who owns the dog that did not bark.
     
    When most of the dogs are owned by one particular group of people, it's not too difficult, these days, even for The Dumb Goyim to infer who the owners are.

    When most of the dogs are owned by one particular group of people, it’s not too difficult, these days, even for The Dumb Goyim to infer who the owners are.

    And their sycophants have the audacity to sneer at us for being “obsessed” with the usual gangsters!

    Anyway, I’d value your input as to whether this really happened or not. Sounds too good to be true; probably fake news Way too much publicity for it to be what it it’s supposed to appear to be.

    Anyway, I’d be happy if something similar happened in the US and Israel, too, not that it would do much good, but it would be fun to watch.

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    • Replies: @geokat62

    Sounds too good to be true; probably fake news Way too much publicity for it to be what it it’s supposed to appear to be.
     
    Hey, JS. Not sure what you consider "too good to be true"... the torture of royal billionaires or the deal Kushner cut with MBS to sell out of the Pals for the dog owners to support his regime?

    One sure sign this isn't a positive development is the Maven's reaction:

    MBS’ actions are nothing short of pathbreaking and a new ME will emerge from these sweeping changes.
     
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  36. @Sherman
    "Just three well-to-do gentlemen - Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg"

    I love these dudes. I've been buying AMZN, MSFT and FB stock in semi-regular increments for years.

    I've been riding on their coattails and doing very well!

    I’ve been riding on their coattails and doing very well!

    Way to miss the big point of the article.

    More proof that one doesn’t need brains to have shekels. ;)

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    • Replies: @Sherman
    You're correct. You don't need brains to make a lot of money. Some of the wealthiest people I know are surprisingly vapid - both Jews and non-Jews.

    I wish my teachers would have taught me this when I was a kid and studious.

    That said, Shamir should have also listed Brin and Page from Google in his list of gazillionaires.

    I've also been loading up on Google (er, excuse me, Alphabet).

    Doing fantastic with this stock too (actually divided into two classes of stock).

    I now have more money to support my favorite Jewish and Israeli causes!

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  37. TWS says:

    I don’t think there’d be a tear shed if the US grabbed up the oligarchs and kleptocrats and squeezed until Lincoln on the last penny cried uncle. Every single scammer who got bailed out, every single monopolist. The only problem is the money would go to feed the beast.

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  38. 75 says:
    @Anonymous
    But why was this particular band of billionaires chosen? What is the unifying factor? What should we call them? And what sets them apart from all the other bands of billionaires throughout the world who are turning a blind eye?

    Power and money always overlap. So why has this particular group been cut adrift from the pack?

    Despite their enormous wealth it would seem they have actual little power if this is their fate. After all most of them are essentially glorified welfare queens suckling at the rapidly drying teat of the Saudi oil coffers on the basis of a distant relation to Al Saud. Maybe they were too complacent, convinced that the usually glacial rate of change in KSA politics would hold and MBS was all bark and no bite. They also don’t really do anything necessary to the KSA with (again) most of them just being parasites and the few that do conduct business being both massively corrupt and producing negligible profit for KSA.

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  39. renfro says:

    “(( Their)) plans are likely to misfire, as all MBS plans did. There was nothing he yet succeeded in achieving, from pressuring Qatar to vanquishing Yemen. A lot of blood and a lot of money will flow, adding to miseries in the Middle East and elsewhere.”

    Faster please, I need the fog of war to cover my assassinations plan.

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  40. alexander says:
    @jacques sheete

    Where is the “accountability”
     
    Indeed. Where is it?

    The lack of accountability in the proposed cornstitution of the US was one of the key objections to it by the anti-federalists, and time has proven them both accurate and prescient once again.

    Corporations as well as governments are designed to absolve the money grubbers of accountability and to socialize risk while privatizing and concentrating wealth and power.

    “This, Sir, is my great objection to the Constitution, that there is no true responsibility – and that the preservation of our liberty depends on the single chance of men being virtuous...”



    “The Senate can, with the President, make treaties, that shall be the supreme law of the land: They may make the most ruinous treaties; and yet there is no punishment for them.”

    -Patrick Henry June 5 and 7, 1788―1788-1789 Petersburg, Virginia edition of the Debates and other Proceedings . . . Of the Virginia Convention of 1788

     

    Hi Jacques,

    I’ve read our constitution.

    Its preamble is pretty self explanatory as to the role of government…….Provide for the common defense, Promote the general welfare, and Secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity.

    Nowhere in the constitution does it say its okay to lie us into war.

    If there is absence of accountability for the nightmare of criminal war and heinous insolvency thrust upon us,(especially since 9-11) it does not grow out of the framework of our constitution, but the incapacity of our deeply corrupt and compromised leaders to apply the law……. and right the wrong.

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  41. Kiza says:

    All Westen countries claim a “progressive” system of taxation – the more you earn the higher percentage of tax you are supposed to pay. Yet, most of Western oligarchs end up paying a negative tax percentage, that is they get subsidised by the dying out middle class tax payers.

    Despite how some commenters humorously compare IRS and MBS, the reality is that IRS did not kill a couple of hundred thousand Yemenis whilst MBS did. Therefore, this tax-man is much worse than the oligarchs that he is taxing. Also, what about his own ill gotten gains? He is part of the same Saudi graft system.

    The final point is that the MBS style of tax collection already exists in US, known as Civil Forfeiture. That much for MBS’ originality – if it is something vicious then the West was always the first to come up with it.

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  42. renfro says:

    So far among the MBS abducted Princes the only thing one has signed off on as his corruption is……..using his position to have the Saudi guard buy equipment from his own company.

    LOL….the Princes are petty amateurs when it comes to corruption….they should takes lessons from the big time experts , the US political and Wall Street elite.

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    • Replies: @TWS
    You think they get anything for civil forfeiture like the Saudis are squeezing? Good luck. We'd need to go where the money is and it ain't the odd dealer or tax avoider.
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  43. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @alexander
    I think this is the 640 billion dollar question.

    Mr. Shamir refers to the "ill gotten" gains of these Saudi oligarchs, but cannot tell us how or why they are "ill gotten".

    Furthermore, we are unable to see which oligarchs, with "ill gotten" gains, escaped unscathed, and why.

    In short, we are unable to gauge the levels of duplicity and hypocrisy, at work, in the crackdown.

    Mr. Shamir tells us Saudi Arabia is "broke" but does not tell us why it is "broke".

    Certainly the price hike at the pump from our Iraq war, from $1.29 a gallon to almost $5.50 a gallon(at peak) represented perhaps several trillions of dollars in pure profit for Saudi Arabia (and others) over the six year time frame.

    Could it have squandered all that "extra"money quite so fast ?

    The "night of the long knives" in the kingdom represents an extraordinary consolidation of wealth and power into the hands of one very young Monarch.

    One wonders what his plans are over the next several years and who will benefit most from them.

    “One wonders what his plans are over the next several years and who will benefit most from them.”
    — Shamir actully gives very clear cues: “There is a veritable conspiracy around the MBS actions … the blanket of silence covering the Extortion Racket beats all. … This is probably the most unusual aspect of the story, reminiscent of The Dog that Didn’t Bark by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle. It means that its mighty mega-owner, whom I called The Masters of Discourse, allowed and authorised the racket. …
    Iran is the main (if not the only) hindrance on the way of the Kushner-MBS plan. This partly explains the Saudi fury. Iran’s “supreme leader is the new Hitler of the Middle East,” said MBS to Tom Friedman. … MBS pinched these words from a Netanyahu UN speech, but he refrained of referring to the source.”
    — Israel occupies the US Congress and beyond. MSM presstitutes for the powerful. The clown prince is a patsy for the mega-owner.

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  44. ….but the incapacity of our deeply corrupt and compromised leaders to apply the law……. and right the wrong.

    Which is one good reason to NOT put much faith in the thing or any mortal with power.

    Constitution or no, most leaders either wind up corrupt or soon become that way. The constitution may sound good on paper, but it’s nothing but words.

    The Constitution looked fairly good on paper, but it was not a popular document; people were suspicious of it, and suspicious of the enabling legislation that was being erected upon it. There was some ground for this. The Constitution had been laid down under unacceptable auspices; its history had been that of a coup d’état.

    - Albert Jay Nock [Excerpted from chapter 5 of Albert Jay Nock's Jefferson, published in 1926]

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    • Replies: @alexander
    Jacques,

    I do not believe the impending and heinous debt crisis facing our nation is a reflection of our
    representatives upholding constitutional principles, but abandoning them, en mass, to engage in "wars of aggression".

    Imagine how wealthy, healthy and powerful our country would be TODAY had we not succumbed to wasting 14.5 trillion dollars of our solvency on our stupid , vapid, criminal wars abroad.

    Can you imagine how valuable the dollar would be today....how sought after our bonds would be ,around the world, if our deficit spending, since 9-11, was only 50 billion dollars a year , not 875 billion ?

    Look at the numbers, Jacques,

    In 2000,our National Debt was 5.6 trillion and our GDP was 9.9 trillion. ( a decent DEBT / GDP ratio of almost 1 to 2.)

    Today, our National Debt is ( a mind numbing) 20.5 trillion and our GDP is only 19.4 trillion.( this is a NEGATIVE DEBT/GDP ratio of 1 to .96)

    This is a national CATASTROPHE...a train wreck of monstrous criminal OVERSPENDING the likes of which has never been seen before on the face of the earth !

    Assuming that we kept our OVERSPENDING to a modest 50 billion per year since 2000, this would have added only 850 billion to our national debt for the same , 17 year,time period.

    Look at how GOLDEN our nation would be today had we not succumbed to committing the supreme crime of "war of aggression".

    We would have a National Debt of only 6.45 trillion and a GDP of 19.4...a STELLAR "five star"DEBT/GDP ratio of 1 to 3....Fantastic !

    FANTASTIC !

    Our credit worthiness would be GOLDEN
    Our bonds would be GOLDEN
    Our currency would be GOLDEN,

    We would be the greatest nation on earth, a powerhouse of solvency and wealth, with massive reserves available to ignite growth in every quarter of industries.

    But we were lied into wars of aggression, and now we are bankrupt.

    A tragic end to a very special and wonderful nation with all the promise in the world.
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  45. @alexander
    The central issue for us in the USA, Mr. Shamir, is NOT "Billionaire Oligarchs "......Its FRAUD!

    Where is the "accountability" for the heinous "war fraud" , "terror fraud", and "banking fraud" foisted on the American Taxpayer over the last 16 years ?

    Where is it ?

    This is the greatest and most important "unanswered" question of our time .

    Nothing else even comes close.

    There is no greater priority for the American Taxpayer than holding those who defrauded us to account.

    None.



    If you don't think so, Mr Shamir , then let me ask you a few questions...

    Why should the taxpayer be on the hook for tens of trillions of dollars of DEBT created by wars we were LIED INTO ?

    Why not take one simple national POLL....and ask 320 million Americans if they feel they SHOULD BE ?


    "Do you feel you should pay for a war you were deceived into ?"

    "Do you like (or accept) being defrauded out of your money ?"

    "Should you be stuck with the bill or should the defrauders be stuck with the bill ?"

    I can virtually guarantee the certainty of a unanimous 99.99% reply that...

    " THE DEFRAUDERS SHOULD BE STUCK WITH THE BILL !"

    To date ,there has been ZERO "accountability" for the pernicious deceptions which has holocaust-ed our national solvency by $14,500,000,000,000.00 in a mere 17 years.

    WHY ?

    Is it really acceptable to be "lied into war" ?

    Who says so ?

    Is it acceptable to be defrauded out of tens of trillions of our tax dollars to prosecute a war we were lied into ?

    Who says so ?

    Is "taxation through FALSE representation" really A OKAY with the taxpayer ?

    Who says ?





    It stands to reason that ANY and ALL "Billionaire Oligarchs" who were complicit in this crime...SHOULD PAY FOR THE COST OF THEIR CRIME....The WHOLE WAY.

    This SHOULD BE the top priority of this administration and every administration from here on in, until our coffers are replenished with the assets of all those who deceived us out of our money, in the first place.

    I’d have no strenuous objection IF (1) the expropriation stopped at the extremely wealthy who have ill-gotten gains and/or who have used their power to agitate for the immivasion replacement of my people — Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates, Zuckerberg, George Soros, Sheldon Adelson, Carlos Slim, and their ilk — and (2) the money is used to pay down the fed gov debt, not spent on new commitments that will again become unaffordable in the future.

    But how likely is that prudent scenario?

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    • Replies: @alexander
    Well for one thing, RC,

    It is certainly not prudent to use the assets of individuals among the billionaire class who committed NO crime.

    I may not be privy to all the facts, but I never perceived Bill Gates as a huge advocate for "war of aggression", Did you ?...... and I think Mark Zuckerberg was practically still in diapers when we started are forays into illegal wars in 2002 .....Wasn't he ?

    I think lumping in billionaires as complicit in bankrupting our country through war fraud or terror fraud, simply because they are billionaires .........is as wrong and as evil as holding some wholly innocent Afghan "goat herder" in Guantanamo for decades.

    It is disgusting.
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  46. Sherman says:
    @jacques sheete

    I’ve been riding on their coattails and doing very well!
     
    Way to miss the big point of the article.

    More proof that one doesn't need brains to have shekels. ;)

    You’re correct. You don’t need brains to make a lot of money. Some of the wealthiest people I know are surprisingly vapid – both Jews and non-Jews.

    I wish my teachers would have taught me this when I was a kid and studious.

    That said, Shamir should have also listed Brin and Page from Google in his list of gazillionaires.

    I’ve also been loading up on Google (er, excuse me, Alphabet).

    Doing fantastic with this stock too (actually divided into two classes of stock).

    I now have more money to support my favorite Jewish and Israeli causes!

    Read More
    • Replies: @jacques sheete

    I now have more money to support my favorite Jewish and Israeli causes!
     
    Why would a person support both? Do you really believe that the owners of "Israel" give a damn about anyone but themselves? Do you really think they care about either Jews or goyim? Do you really think they represent most Jews? Who gave them the authority to do so, and under what pretext?

    Could it be that they've misappropriated the Jewish victimhood narrative and are putting Jews in a bad light? If that's a possibility , then why would any moral "philo-Semite"support them?


    Jews who know their own history should be aware that such a state of affairs will inevitably lead to a new wave of Jew-hatred; the antisemitism of tomorrow will assert that Jews not only profiteered from the presence of foreign big powers in that region but had actually plotted it and hence are guilty of the consequences…

    -Hannah Arendt, Zionism Reconsidered, Jewish Writings p 345
    https://preview.tinyurl.com/yapfnfa5


     

    PS: Your consistent braggadocio concerning your imagined wealth marks you as a fraud, a low class tyro and a wannabee, and I'm actually surprised that you haven't already figured that out. But please do carry on in that vein; it speaks volumes.
    , @TWS
    Brilliant trolling 10/10!
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  47. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Michael Kenny
    Pro-Putin propaganda dressed up as (very mild!) anti-Putin propaganda, with the usual mass of detail just to bog people down.

    You feel apparently insulted that the newly-minted best friend of Israel, clown prince MbS, was exposed as extortionist. Have you noticed that Russian press was not interested in the extortion story?
    As for MSM, they become excited with a shooting only when some Jewish dealer (like Nemtsov) is murdered by some Chechens (as part of dirty dealings). But when the shooting of a helicopter with a bunch of wealthy guys is done by an Israeli friend, everything is honky-dory (according to Mr. Kenney).

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    • Replies: @Johnny Rico
    "After more than eight months of hearings a jury found that Zaur Dadaev, a former officer in the security forces of Chechnya's leader Ramzan Kadyrov, was guilty of murdering Nemtsov, Russian news agencies reported."

    http://www.dw.com/en/boris-nemtsov-killing-five-people-found-guilty-in-russia/a-39476006

    My understanding is Kadyrov and Putin are quite close. Maybe you could elaborate more about these "dirty dealings" you know about.

    Certainly the facts of the murder itself and the ensuing investigation and trial can't do much to help the image of the Kremlin, FSB, or Moscow police in the eyes of the West.

    Maybe you can make some sense of this fiasco and explain it to the skeptical.
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  48. anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    The DailyMail story of the hanging princes is colorful. But is it true? SA is quite the opaque country with few, if any, actual insiders giving us outsiders the inside story. The credibility of much of this seems suspect. Why would they need to use American mercenaries to torture the princes? Don’t they have any locals who could do that sort of thing or at least bring in some from places like Egypt or Pakistan? How many billions could they get out of the princes and would that amount make any real difference? In addition, anyone that Friedman praises is automatically suspect. There’s some sort of factional power struggle going on, it appears. Perhaps some discipline had to be established to put the free-spending libertine members of the royal family under control lest their corruption were to grow so large as to undermine the state. Or perhaps the intent is to centralize a more uniform political line and line up more strongly with the US and Israel as an axis to counterbalance Iran. Jordan is probably a silent partner in all this. It’s possibly a gamble to preserve the Saudi royal family’s hold on power and this is their roll of the dice. We’ll have to see how things emerge.

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  49. AndrewR says:

    Most Americans are stupid enough to think that billionaires all got their wealth through hard work and productivity. Shaking down billionaires would not sit well with many Americans, especially given that said billionaires run the media empires from which most stupid Americans get their propagand

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  50. @Sherman
    You're correct. You don't need brains to make a lot of money. Some of the wealthiest people I know are surprisingly vapid - both Jews and non-Jews.

    I wish my teachers would have taught me this when I was a kid and studious.

    That said, Shamir should have also listed Brin and Page from Google in his list of gazillionaires.

    I've also been loading up on Google (er, excuse me, Alphabet).

    Doing fantastic with this stock too (actually divided into two classes of stock).

    I now have more money to support my favorite Jewish and Israeli causes!

    I now have more money to support my favorite Jewish and Israeli causes!

    Why would a person support both? Do you really believe that the owners of “Israel” give a damn about anyone but themselves? Do you really think they care about either Jews or goyim? Do you really think they represent most Jews? Who gave them the authority to do so, and under what pretext?

    Could it be that they’ve misappropriated the Jewish victimhood narrative and are putting Jews in a bad light? If that’s a possibility , then why would any moral “philo-Semite”support them?

    Jews who know their own history should be aware that such a state of affairs will inevitably lead to a new wave of Jew-hatred; the antisemitism of tomorrow will assert that Jews not only profiteered from the presence of foreign big powers in that region but had actually plotted it and hence are guilty of the consequences…

    -Hannah Arendt, Zionism Reconsidered, Jewish Writings p 345

    https://preview.tinyurl.com/yapfnfa5

    PS: Your consistent braggadocio concerning your imagined wealth marks you as a fraud, a low class tyro and a wannabee, and I’m actually surprised that you haven’t already figured that out. But please do carry on in that vein; it speaks volumes.

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    • Replies: @Sherman
    Actually, the DJIA is up over 300 points today.

    I no longer have to imagine I'm wealthy.

    As much as I hate to admit it I'm doing very well under Trump.

    :)

    Sherm
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  51. @Wally
    Excellent points.

    Try 'owning' a house if you fail to pay 'property taxes'.
    Try 'owning' a car if you fail pay 'registration fees'.
    The gasoline 'fee' in CA is now 1 dollar per gallon, oil company profits are 5 cents per gallon.

    On & on it goes.

    We work for them, they do not work for us.

    Regards.

    How does taxation differ from paying a mortgage? Men with guns will show up at your doorstep eventually if you don’t keep up with your mortgage payments – yet libertarians call this situation “enforcement of contract” because a private business has deployed the threat of violence against you to collect the money you owe it.

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    • Agree: jacques sheete
    • Replies: @jacques sheete

    How does taxation differ from paying a mortgage? Men with guns will show up at your doorstep eventually...
     
    One is tax slavery and the other is debt slavery, so the difference is in the name mainly.

    You are correct that in both cases you lose. Also, in both cases the wealth extracted or extorted from you winds up in the hands of society's worst and being used against you.

    But it's all good, you see, because a pretend rich (and smart) guy told all of us, right here, at UR, that "debt is good." He further advised that to understand the concept we should all study the scribblings of Paul Krugman, the Nobel (and Poolitzer) prize winner and "expert" economist. And that, partly because "everyone" considers him "intuitive."
    , @Anonymous
    A mortgage is voluntary. I don't ever remember being asked if I wanted to pay taxes.

    Also if you purchased your home using a mortgage the bank holds the title to the property until you satisfy the terms of the loan. Nice mischaracterization of a mortgage agreement though. It was better than that half baked straw man you made for libertarians.
    , @norse nestor
    mortgage ; you are one guy trying to get 200k for a house and paying 200k back with interest
    tax; you are one guy trying to hold on to the house you already have and paying some random amount to the mobsters for not stealing your house

    call me a libertarian, but srsly, how can you miss that ?
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  52. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    What I’m wondering is if the first big ‘push to make Saudi Arabia a democratic state,’ is going to be born out of this. At some point it’s going to occur to the average Saudi that an autocrat who just seizes your assets at his whim is a producer of chronic, mass nail-biting anxiety. This is usually the motivator behind creating a democracy, and your average Saudi is no longer an ignorant, tent-dwelling camel driver who can be easily fooled.

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  53. Miro23 says:

    The only satisfaction is that now you know who owns the dog that did not bark.

    That’s true enough, but the US public were already getting well acquainted with the dog owner in the last election, seeing that the dogs were all barking 24/7 against Trump. The interesting fact is that Trump still won, showing that in the absence of a propagandizing MSM he would have had a much wider victory.

    With the MSM revealed as liars and propagandists, maybe the public is starting to go into “auto-discard” mode with regard to purported “news”, the same as they did in the Soviet Union.

    Also MSM manipulation can only go so far. In live broadcast Presidential debates for example, the whole sophisticated apparatus is nullified as debate is returned to its simple origins, with two tribal leaders standing up and presenting their cases with the rest of the village present and getting the messages direct from start to finish.

    Propagandist media also seems to have a growing problem dealing with the flow of uncensored information. Despite the propaganda, Russians citizens finally knew through different channels that Americans and Western Europeans lived better than they did. Equally, whatever the US media says about the importance of a “War on Terror”, the public could see for themselves that $ 6 trillion had been wasted, and it was themselves (the so called “Deplorables”) who were doing the fighting and carrying the debt kindly loaded onto them by the FED.

    Trump didn’t need to tell them this, and now there are more questions than previously about the lies and deceptions of 9/11.

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  54. Sherman says:
    @jacques sheete

    I now have more money to support my favorite Jewish and Israeli causes!
     
    Why would a person support both? Do you really believe that the owners of "Israel" give a damn about anyone but themselves? Do you really think they care about either Jews or goyim? Do you really think they represent most Jews? Who gave them the authority to do so, and under what pretext?

    Could it be that they've misappropriated the Jewish victimhood narrative and are putting Jews in a bad light? If that's a possibility , then why would any moral "philo-Semite"support them?


    Jews who know their own history should be aware that such a state of affairs will inevitably lead to a new wave of Jew-hatred; the antisemitism of tomorrow will assert that Jews not only profiteered from the presence of foreign big powers in that region but had actually plotted it and hence are guilty of the consequences…

    -Hannah Arendt, Zionism Reconsidered, Jewish Writings p 345
    https://preview.tinyurl.com/yapfnfa5


     

    PS: Your consistent braggadocio concerning your imagined wealth marks you as a fraud, a low class tyro and a wannabee, and I'm actually surprised that you haven't already figured that out. But please do carry on in that vein; it speaks volumes.

    Actually, the DJIA is up over 300 points today.

    I no longer have to imagine I’m wealthy.

    As much as I hate to admit it I’m doing very well under Trump.

    :)

    Sherm

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    • Replies: @jacques sheete

    As much as I hate to admit it I’m doing very well under Trump.
     
    Under Humpdy Trump?

    I woulda guessed you'd be on top...or that you'd do it standing.

    , @jacques sheete

    Actually, the DJIA is up over 300 points today.
     
    Yup, yer a punk. All real investors make money in both up and down markets, and have no need to celebrate or brag only when the market is up.

    In fact, real investors know how to manipulate markets, and even that's punk grade stuff. The big boys make the markets or better yet even couldn't care less about them; they just steal what they want, like the clown prince, or get others to do it for them.

    I'm shocked that you need this stuff explained to ya.

    Now, care to answer my questions regarding support of both Jews and Israel? ;)

    , @Anon
    Sure.
    Unless your people are too pushy, the US and her dwellers have some time to survive and even to do well: “Israel And Saudi Arabia Urged A Preemptive US Strike On Iran Prior To Nuclear Deal”
    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-12-01/john-kerry-israel-and-saudi-arabia-urged-preemptive-us-strike-iran-prior-nuclear-dea
    Could you fathom why the Israelis’ bloody belligerence (for the US expense, of course) against ancient state of Persia/Iran brings to mind the story of “dancing Israelis” on some faithful day in September? Even if (IF) MOSSAD was not involved in planning and implementing the miraculous events on the Lower Manhattan, the Israelis have heartily approved the tragedy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-W6LdB24-wU
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XHm56O2NTI
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  55. Dr. Doom says:

    Trump is an oligarch himself, so I wouldn’t expect him to set this precedent. His successor yet to come will probably do worse. This failed state has lost all sense of propriety or function. Its constant election of the bottom of the gene pool ensures its own destruction. The Grand Army of 500,000 White Men wanting to pay for college crushed Saddam’s Million Man Army TWICE. The goof troop of make work minorities has grounded half the Air Force and managed to crash five times into slow moving boats probably not even going ten knots in the Ocean with Billion Dollar Radar Guided Ships.
    Social Trust and Diversity are Antonyms. The Rule of Law has been arrogantly discarded. They treat Whites like Kulaks even though they are probably the Largest Armed Force on Earth. The Crazy Times are living on fumes. The celebratory nature of this failed state makes Nero and Caligula seem like statesmen. The stupidity of dark skinned folks that want moar gibs when the Whole Failed State is BROKE is a sign. Equality and Egalitarianism ia now a sign of delusions and loss of touch with reality. The cheap talk of living inside a hologram, and living forever by downloading your mind into a computer is a sign of the Crazy Times winding down.

    15 minutes in The Future, its gonna come down like A HOUSE OF CARDS. The Max Headroom of this World is far exceeded by the overblown egos of “experts” who haven’t made the right call for about Fifty Years NOW.

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  56. Sam Shama says:

    MBS’ actions are nothing short of pathbreaking and a new ME will emerge from these sweeping changes.

    Read More
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  57. @Anon
    You feel apparently insulted that the newly-minted best friend of Israel, clown prince MbS, was exposed as extortionist. Have you noticed that Russian press was not interested in the extortion story?
    As for MSM, they become excited with a shooting only when some Jewish dealer (like Nemtsov) is murdered by some Chechens (as part of dirty dealings). But when the shooting of a helicopter with a bunch of wealthy guys is done by an Israeli friend, everything is honky-dory (according to Mr. Kenney).

    “After more than eight months of hearings a jury found that Zaur Dadaev, a former officer in the security forces of Chechnya’s leader Ramzan Kadyrov, was guilty of murdering Nemtsov, Russian news agencies reported.”

    http://www.dw.com/en/boris-nemtsov-killing-five-people-found-guilty-in-russia/a-39476006

    My understanding is Kadyrov and Putin are quite close. Maybe you could elaborate more about these “dirty dealings” you know about.

    Certainly the facts of the murder itself and the ensuing investigation and trial can’t do much to help the image of the Kremlin, FSB, or Moscow police in the eyes of the West.

    Maybe you can make some sense of this fiasco and explain it to the skeptical.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon
    You, Johny Rico, suggest that Putin has ordered to kill Mr. Nemtsov -- with a Kremlin Wall as a backdrop so that various Johny Ricos would not be confused about Putin’s dark plans re Nemtsov.
    A last poll before Nemtsov was shot showed that “only 45% of Russians even recognized Nemtsov's name; of those 45%, only 1% "trusted" him—compared to 17%, who said they did not trust him.” http://beforeitsnews.com/opinion-liberal/2015/03/according-to-a-jan-2014-poll-boris-nemtsov-was-one-of-the-least-trusted-opposition-leaders-in-moscow-with-1-approval-rating-2501174.html
    You, and your ziocon brethren, need to make a choice -- either you are dealing with an imbecile (Putin) and therefore the defeats by ziocons in Syria and elsewhere reveal that the ziocons are even less intelligent than Putin – or the "opposition leader” Nemtsov (who was trusted less than 1% of citizens of Russian Federation) most likely was killed for his digressions -- either because of his shadow financial dealings or because of his taste of very young women.
    “Even the “non-system” opposition refuses to blame the Kremlin” http://robinwestenra.blogspot.com/2015/03/goodnews-out-of-russia-even-non-system.html
    Nemtsov “was mixed up in all manner of shady, immoral, and possibly even illegal interpersonal and financial dealings. He had plenty of opportunity to make enemies for himself, and did not get along especially well with most of the so-called "Russian opposition." Once again, the fact he was shot at 6-8 times at point blank range, out of which only 4 shots hit, and moreover that his companion who was in perfect position to see who was shooting at Nemtsov was left alive and unharmed on the scene, suggests a personal animosity toward Nemtsov somehow related to this "relationship" (for lack of a better word--somehow I doubt the 55-year-old Nemtsov was going to marry the 23-year-old "actress-model) on the part of the shooter.”
    “Beginning in 2012, Nemtsov was co-chair of the Republican Party of Russia – People's Freedom Party (RPR-PARNAS).” This PARNAS: Putin opposition leader Kasyanov caught with his pants down in Strasbourg (Video): Kasyanov, a President of PARNAS party, in Strasbourg meeting with the official representatives from NATO to receive money to conduct anti-government operations in Russia. It’s a crime in Russia to receive money from foreign states and organizations to conduct anti-government activities.
    http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/anti-putin-opposition-leader-kasyanov-caught-his-pants-down-strasbourg-video/ri12646
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  58. bjondo says:

    MBS not Muhammad not bin usual saud.
    MBS – moderate, modern, maybe western.
    MBS – created in tel aviv and/or hill knowlton
    after escaping asylum for the delusional, the insane, the psycho

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  59. sarz says:

    What a wonderful confection from ‘Shamir’, a master at this sort of thing — the shudder quotes as a tribute to whoever else has had a helping hand in this rhetorical construction apart from the short guy with the moustache. Like a committee in Herzliya.

    As always with this gentleman, one looks for a key. Here, I believe, it comes resplendent with garnish from the Iliad and Simone Weil. “This is Putin, in both his tempered use of force and in his steadfast dignity in weakness.”

    Right. You see, it might look like the end of empire, but really, tempered and dignified in weakness Putin (Russia, that is, and Iran, Turkey, Syria and China) is not really a winner. And see, he’s taking a bribe from Salman.

    That’s a good one Israel (both of you). Not up to your masterpiece, though, how it’s an insult to Arabs to deny that they did 9/11. But keep trying. In the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon
    The "eternal victim" is upset? -- Others also can deal with a Saudi despot, not only your "most democratic" and "most moral?"
    Surely Putin knows the drill; Russia used to be a playground for the fiery bolsheviks whose progeny has flocked to Israel, like this one: http://thesaker.is/bloody-monday-grandnephew-of-gulag-organizer-stabbed-the-echo-of-moscow-editor/
    "Naftaly Aronovich Frenkel (1883 – 1960) was a Jewish Russian businessman and member of the Soviet secret police. Frenkel is best known for his role in the organisation of work in the GULAG, starting from the forced labor camp of the Solovetsky Islands, which is recognised as one of the earliest sites of the GULAG." -- You should visit the place: everything is documented. Millions of Russians died there, tortured, murdered. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naftaly_Frenkel

    Nice that you mentioned the bribe ... brings to mind the occupied Congress of special tourists to Israel.
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  60. Putin has all kinds of journalists murdered. Why doesn’t he have Tom Friedman murdered? Seems like that would solve a lot of problems in this world. Everybody hates Friedman. Friedman drinks his own pee.

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  61. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Johnny Rico
    "After more than eight months of hearings a jury found that Zaur Dadaev, a former officer in the security forces of Chechnya's leader Ramzan Kadyrov, was guilty of murdering Nemtsov, Russian news agencies reported."

    http://www.dw.com/en/boris-nemtsov-killing-five-people-found-guilty-in-russia/a-39476006

    My understanding is Kadyrov and Putin are quite close. Maybe you could elaborate more about these "dirty dealings" you know about.

    Certainly the facts of the murder itself and the ensuing investigation and trial can't do much to help the image of the Kremlin, FSB, or Moscow police in the eyes of the West.

    Maybe you can make some sense of this fiasco and explain it to the skeptical.

    You, Johny Rico, suggest that Putin has ordered to kill Mr. Nemtsov — with a Kremlin Wall as a backdrop so that various Johny Ricos would not be confused about Putin’s dark plans re Nemtsov.
    A last poll before Nemtsov was shot showed that “only 45% of Russians even recognized Nemtsov’s name; of those 45%, only 1% “trusted” him—compared to 17%, who said they did not trust him.” http://beforeitsnews.com/opinion-liberal/2015/03/according-to-a-jan-2014-poll-boris-nemtsov-was-one-of-the-least-trusted-opposition-leaders-in-moscow-with-1-approval-rating-2501174.html
    You, and your ziocon brethren, need to make a choice — either you are dealing with an imbecile (Putin) and therefore the defeats by ziocons in Syria and elsewhere reveal that the ziocons are even less intelligent than Putin – or the “opposition leader” Nemtsov (who was trusted less than 1% of citizens of Russian Federation) most likely was killed for his digressions — either because of his shadow financial dealings or because of his taste of very young women.
    “Even the “non-system” opposition refuses to blame the Kremlin” http://robinwestenra.blogspot.com/2015/03/goodnews-out-of-russia-even-non-system.html
    Nemtsov “was mixed up in all manner of shady, immoral, and possibly even illegal interpersonal and financial dealings. He had plenty of opportunity to make enemies for himself, and did not get along especially well with most of the so-called “Russian opposition.” Once again, the fact he was shot at 6-8 times at point blank range, out of which only 4 shots hit, and moreover that his companion who was in perfect position to see who was shooting at Nemtsov was left alive and unharmed on the scene, suggests a personal animosity toward Nemtsov somehow related to this “relationship” (for lack of a better word–somehow I doubt the 55-year-old Nemtsov was going to marry the 23-year-old “actress-model) on the part of the shooter.”
    “Beginning in 2012, Nemtsov was co-chair of the Republican Party of Russia – People’s Freedom Party (RPR-PARNAS).” This PARNAS: Putin opposition leader Kasyanov caught with his pants down in Strasbourg (Video): Kasyanov, a President of PARNAS party, in Strasbourg meeting with the official representatives from NATO to receive money to conduct anti-government operations in Russia. It’s a crime in Russia to receive money from foreign states and organizations to conduct anti-government activities.

    http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/anti-putin-opposition-leader-kasyanov-caught-his-pants-down-strasbourg-video/ri12646

    Read More
    • Replies: @Cyrano
    I think that Nemtsov chances for political career in Russia were doomed the moment he got born with that name. Nemtsov – if I am not mistaken - in Russian means “belonging to the Germans” or simply German. I have a lot of fun with that name, various Slavs call the Germans Nemtsi, which in Slavic languages means “mutes”. You see, when the Slavs first encountered the Germans, their language seemed so unintelligible to them that the Germans were as good as mutes, so they appropriately named them – Mutes – Nemtsi. Nemtsov simply had a wrong sounding name for a success in Russian politics.
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  62. @Sherman
    Actually, the DJIA is up over 300 points today.

    I no longer have to imagine I'm wealthy.

    As much as I hate to admit it I'm doing very well under Trump.

    :)

    Sherm

    As much as I hate to admit it I’m doing very well under Trump.

    Under Humpdy Trump?

    I woulda guessed you’d be on top…or that you’d do it standing.

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  63. alexander says:
    @RadicalCenter
    I'd have no strenuous objection IF (1) the expropriation stopped at the extremely wealthy who have ill-gotten gains and/or who have used their power to agitate for the immivasion replacement of my people -- Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates, Zuckerberg, George Soros, Sheldon Adelson, Carlos Slim, and their ilk -- and (2) the money is used to pay down the fed gov debt, not spent on new commitments that will again become unaffordable in the future.

    But how likely is that prudent scenario?

    Well for one thing, RC,

    It is certainly not prudent to use the assets of individuals among the billionaire class who committed NO crime.

    I may not be privy to all the facts, but I never perceived Bill Gates as a huge advocate for “war of aggression”, Did you ?…… and I think Mark Zuckerberg was practically still in diapers when we started are forays into illegal wars in 2002 …..Wasn’t he ?

    I think lumping in billionaires as complicit in bankrupting our country through war fraud or terror fraud, simply because they are billionaires ………is as wrong and as evil as holding some wholly innocent Afghan “goat herder” in Guantanamo for decades.

    It is disgusting.

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  64. @advancedatheist
    How does taxation differ from paying a mortgage? Men with guns will show up at your doorstep eventually if you don't keep up with your mortgage payments - yet libertarians call this situation "enforcement of contract" because a private business has deployed the threat of violence against you to collect the money you owe it.

    How does taxation differ from paying a mortgage? Men with guns will show up at your doorstep eventually…

    One is tax slavery and the other is debt slavery, so the difference is in the name mainly.

    You are correct that in both cases you lose. Also, in both cases the wealth extracted or extorted from you winds up in the hands of society’s worst and being used against you.

    But it’s all good, you see, because a pretend rich (and smart) guy told all of us, right here, at UR, that “debt is good.” He further advised that to understand the concept we should all study the scribblings of Paul Krugman, the Nobel (and Poolitzer) prize winner and “expert” economist. And that, partly because “everyone” considers him “intuitive.”

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  65. wayfarer says:

    Trump faces a similar problem; in the US, the top dogs have the whole hog, while the state is in multi-trillion debt. Just three well-to-do gentlemen—Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg—have as much in their coffers as all the ordinary folk. The annual deficit is about $400 billion; the Rockefellers would not even notice if this paltry sum went amiss from their holdings, estimated at well over a trillion dollars, that is twelve zeroes after the first digit.
    source: http://www.unz.com/ishamir/the-dog-that-didnt-bark-2/

    Don’t forget about America’s two-percenters, perched comfortably at the pinnacle of a top-heavy wealth distribution pyramid.

    Deplorables, qu’ils mangent de la Hostess Twinkies!
    souce: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Let_them_eat_cake

    There is a sufficiency in the world for man’s need but not for man’s greed. –Mahatma Gandhi

    …..

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  66. @Sherman
    Actually, the DJIA is up over 300 points today.

    I no longer have to imagine I'm wealthy.

    As much as I hate to admit it I'm doing very well under Trump.

    :)

    Sherm

    Actually, the DJIA is up over 300 points today.

    Yup, yer a punk. All real investors make money in both up and down markets, and have no need to celebrate or brag only when the market is up.

    In fact, real investors know how to manipulate markets, and even that’s punk grade stuff. The big boys make the markets or better yet even couldn’t care less about them; they just steal what they want, like the clown prince, or get others to do it for them.

    I’m shocked that you need this stuff explained to ya.

    Now, care to answer my questions regarding support of both Jews and Israel? ;)

    Read More
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  67. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @advancedatheist
    How does taxation differ from paying a mortgage? Men with guns will show up at your doorstep eventually if you don't keep up with your mortgage payments - yet libertarians call this situation "enforcement of contract" because a private business has deployed the threat of violence against you to collect the money you owe it.

    A mortgage is voluntary. I don’t ever remember being asked if I wanted to pay taxes.

    Also if you purchased your home using a mortgage the bank holds the title to the property until you satisfy the terms of the loan. Nice mischaracterization of a mortgage agreement though. It was better than that half baked straw man you made for libertarians.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wally
    Excellent response, thanks.

    In addition, once the house is paid for the banks cannot seize it.

    However, Big Government can seize it any time you fail to pay 'property taxes'.
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  68. Art says:

    Crown Prince MBS found a solution. He rounded up hundreds of the wealthiest people in his Kingdom, placed them in the posh five-star hotel Ritz Carlton in his capital Riyadh, and told them to cough up the dough. When they laughed at his face, he called for torturers to begin, Mafia-style, his extortion racket.

    Gee’ — this guy is worse then Hitler. Hitler did not jail the Jew banksters who caused the German people to greatly suffer after WWI.

    Think Peace — Art

    p.s. Gee’ — Prince Jared and MBS are 30 something brothers — Trump loves them.

    p.s. Hmm’ — Wonder what business dealings Jared has with MBS?

    Read More
    • Replies: @renfro

    p.s. Hmm’ — Wonder what business dealings Jared has with MBS?
     
    Wonder no more...the Kushners are in deep dodo financially. Jared has been all over the world begging money for the 666 Fifth Ave white elephant he bought that is about to be foreclosed on in a few months unless he gets a big loan. He's and his daddy are desperate and Jared has always been a daddy's boy to his jailbird father so maybe Jared worked a deal with the Clown Prince. If you read this article you will understand how desperate Jared is---the question is will Trump help him out by trading off some US action or policy to foreign investor to pull Jared's nuts out of the fire --or poor house.


    https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2017-kushners-china-deal-flop-was-part-of-much-bigger-hunt-for-cash/

    Kushners’ China Deal Flop Was Part of Much Bigger Hunt for Cash

    By David Kocieniewski and Caleb Melby
    August 31, 2017

    Jared Kushner, Donald Trump’s son-in-law and top adviser, wakes up each morning to a growing problem that will not go away. His family’s real estate business, Kushner Cos., owes hundreds of millions of dollars on a 41-story office building on Fifth Avenue. It has failed to secure foreign investors, despite an extensive search, and its resources are more limited than generally understood. As a result, the company faces significant challenges.

    Over the past two years, executives and family members have sought substantial overseas investment from previously undisclosed places: South Korea’s sovereign-wealth fund, France’s richest man, Israeli banks and insurance companies, and exploratory talks with a Saudi developer, according to former and current executives. These were in addition to previously reported attempts to raise money in China and Qatar.

    The family, once one of the largest landlords on the East Coast, sold thousands of apartments to finance its purchase of the tower in 2007 and has borrowed extensively for other purchases. They are walking away from a Brooklyn hotel once considered central to their plans for an office hub. From other properties, they are extracting cash, including tens of millions in borrowed funds from the recently acquired former New York Times building. What’s more, their partner in the Fifth Avenue building, Vornado Realty Trust, headed by Steve Roth, has stood aside, allowing the Kushners to pursue financing on their own.

    Kushner Cos. says it will prevail. Laurent Morali, the president, said the company has a variety of contingency plans for the building and its broader portfolio will allow it to sustain any setback. He said he is encouraged by the interest of several potential investors, but declined to name them.
    “Reports that portray it as a distressed situation are just not accurate for the building or for the company,” Morali said in an interview on the 15th floor of the building, 666 Fifth Avenue.
    But there are challenges all around. The mortgage on their tower is due in 18 months. This has led to concerns that Kushner could use—or has perhaps already used—his official position to prop up the family business despite having divested to close relatives his ownership in many projects to conform with government ethics requirements. Federal investigators are examining Kushner’s finances and business dealings, along with those of other Trump associates, as they probe possible collusion between the Kremlin and the Trump campaign. Kushner has already testified twice before closed congressional committees and denies mixing family business with his official role.
    This article, which describes new details of the company’s troubled finances and its overseas fundraising efforts, is based on a review of thousands of pages of financial documents and interviews with more than two dozen executives, business partners, real estate agents, deal participants and analysts. They spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss private deals. Some feared legal reprisals or other retaliation from one of the country’s most powerful families.

    It was 2006—the height of the real-estate market boom—when Kushner Cos. agreed to buy 666 Fifth Avenue for $1.8 billion, then a record for a Manhattan building. All of it was borrowed except for $50 million. The company still holds half of a $1.2 billion mortgage, on which it hasn’t paid a cent. The full amount is due in February 2019.
    The strain has become increasingly evident across their holdings. One person familiar with the company’s finances describes the tower, with its low ceilings and outdated floor plan, as the Jenga puzzle piece that could set the empire teetering.

    The family’s idea of how to salvage its investment requires razing the building to the ground and constructing an 80-story tower with greatly expanded retail areas and high-end condominiums. No short- or medium-term return can be expected from such an aggressive approach. Even a return over the long run would be speculative, though Morali describes the plan as “ambitious and creative.” That narrows the pool of investors to those interested in something other than profit. Real estate experts say this almost certainly precludes U.S. companies. More likely: a foreign firm looking to get capital out of its country or seeking a trophy Manhattan property.
    Before Trump began his rise to the presidency and the 36-year-old Kushner became his senior adviser, 666 Fifth Avenue struggled to attract serious offers. Meetings the Kushners requested were often rejected. After Trump’s nomination, billions of dollars in Asian and Middle Eastern money came under discussion. Two potential deals that made it to advanced stages, with China’sAnbang Insurance Group and a top Qatari sheikh, fell apart.

    The new status meant the Kushners’ calls were more readily answered—but they came with additional scrutiny, not only of the Kushners but also of the investors. Since January, the company has ceased entering into business relationships with sovereign entities, Morali said. Federal investigators want to know if the Fifth Avenue building’s finances came up in a post-election meeting Kushner had with the head of Russia’s state-controlled development bank.
    The Kushners have reason to look far afield. Even after selling big sections of 666 Fifth in 2011, they have increased their own vulnerability by borrowing more money for other deals, people close to the company say. After a refinancing, the deed to 666 Fifth sits in an escrow account, ready to be seized by lenders in a default, an action indicating their trust has grown thin. The mortgage will become even more of a burden after a scheduled jump in interest rates in December. Under some dire circumstances, guarantees in the refinancing agreement could even give lenders the ability to go after the family’s other assets—many of which are also underpinned by debt.
    Towering Debt
    Debt payments have almost always eclipsed net income at 666 Fifth Avenue. A two-year respite followed a hard-fought loan refinancing deal.

    While 666 Fifth Avenue has been a drain, Kushner Cos. has continued to make big moves across New York City, and company officials say those assets insulate the business. It has expanded its footprint by $1 billion, including the Times building and properties formerly owned by the Jehovah’s Witnesses, according to data firm Real Capital Analytics. Morali, sitting in a conference room below a painting of the company’s founders—Jared Kushner’s grandparents—says even a worst-case scenario at 666 Fifth would do minor damage to the company, because “it’s just one small piece of the portfolio.”
    But after selling 18,000 mid-Atlantic apartments in 2007, the Kushners only partially own a substantial number of the company’s assets. In many cases, Kushner Cos. has partnered with well-capitalized firms that want to invest in real estate and seek out experienced locals for deals. These include the Israeli firm Gaia Investment Corp. as well as Oaktree Capital Management, the Los Angeles-based asset manager, and Stonehage Fleming, a London firm that invests money on behalf of 250 wealthy families primarily from Europe, the Middle East, and Africa.
    As a privately held business, Kushners Cos. doesn’t generally have to disclose how ownership breaks down between it and its partners, and Morali declined to provide details. But there are clues. One Brooklyn development site purchased in 2014 for about $75 million and heralded by the real estate press as “Jared Kushner’s big Gowanus project”—so-named for the canal it abuts—is in fact barely owned by the Kushners at all. SL Green Realty Corp., their partner in the endeavor, owns 95 percent of it, according to a regulatory filing. The remaining 5 percent is split between the Kushners, and LIVWRK, another developer. Elsewhere in Brooklyn, where the Kushners partnered with RFR Realty to purchase buildings owned by the Jehovah’s Witnesses, they own about half of the project’s equity.
    It’s here where the Kushners have scaled back. Among the six buildings the partnership purchased for $375 million in 2013 is a 30-story hotel at 90 Sands Street scheduled to be turned over to the Kushner group later this year. Kushner Cos. is now exiting the partnership and selling its stake to RFR, Morali said. Leaving the property means narrowing its role in a planned tech-centric Brooklyn office hub—its most ambitious project since purchasing 666 Fifth.
    The Kushners are also extracting cash from properties in which they do own significant stakes. Six floors of the former New York Times building, which they purchased for $295 million in 2015, now have $370 million of debt against them, loan documents show. Of that amount, at least $59 million was used to return cash to the Kushners.
    Across the Hudson River at Trump Bay Street, a luxury residential building in Jersey City, the family plans to take out $50 million, Bloomberg previously reported. Efforts over the summer to obtain a $250 million mortgage for the property struggled in the face of controversy around their use of an investment-for-visa program. Now the company has found a lender, Morali says, declining to name the firm.
    Central to the fate of 666 Fifth yet noticeably absent from the gyrations around it, is Steve Roth, Vornado’s chairman and chief executive officer, whose firm owns almost half the building’s offices and most of its stores following a 2011 refinancing. When an analyst asked Roth about 666 Fifth in an August earnings call, he demurred, saying the issue was being debated. Two spokesmen for Roth declined to comment for this article.
    In 2014, at a meeting in his 57th Street headquarters with Jared Kushner and his father, Charles Kushner, as well as others wrestling with how to save the investment, Roth argued against the Kushners’ extravagant renovation plans, saying, “It would be worth a lot more if it was just dirt,” according to two people who were there.
    Roth is famous for his unsentimental patience. In an April letter to investors concerning a recent dip in demand for retail property, he described an opportunity to “feed on the carnage” for those with ample capital at their disposal—a chance to profit from the overleveraged and underprepared.
    That’s what Roth saw when his firm came to Kushner’s rescue in 2011, according to three people familiar with his thinking at the time. For $80 million and the assumption of half the debt, Vornado put itself in the best position to become 666 Fifth’s sole owner in the event of a restructuring or worse.
    This may help to explain why Vornado has allowed Kushner Cos. to shoulder the burden of hunting for potential partners and lenders, according to four people. Another reason: Roth’s concern about his own legacy. Now in his mid-70s, having exited retirement only after his handpicked successor left Vornado, he has little desire to gamble his career on a family and a property with uncertain futures, the people said.
    Morali said Vornado and Kushner Cos. are equal partners in the tower and will jointly decide its fate.
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  69. @advancedatheist
    How does taxation differ from paying a mortgage? Men with guns will show up at your doorstep eventually if you don't keep up with your mortgage payments - yet libertarians call this situation "enforcement of contract" because a private business has deployed the threat of violence against you to collect the money you owe it.

    mortgage ; you are one guy trying to get 200k for a house and paying 200k back with interest
    tax; you are one guy trying to hold on to the house you already have and paying some random amount to the mobsters for not stealing your house

    call me a libertarian, but srsly, how can you miss that ?

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  70. geokat62 says:
    @jacques sheete

    When most of the dogs are owned by one particular group of people, it’s not too difficult, these days, even for The Dumb Goyim to infer who the owners are.
     
    And their sycophants have the audacity to sneer at us for being "obsessed" with the usual gangsters!

    Anyway, I'd value your input as to whether this really happened or not. Sounds too good to be true; probably fake news Way too much publicity for it to be what it it's supposed to appear to be.

    Anyway, I'd be happy if something similar happened in the US and Israel, too, not that it would do much good, but it would be fun to watch.

    Sounds too good to be true; probably fake news Way too much publicity for it to be what it it’s supposed to appear to be.

    Hey, JS. Not sure what you consider “too good to be true”… the torture of royal billionaires or the deal Kushner cut with MBS to sell out of the Pals for the dog owners to support his regime?

    One sure sign this isn’t a positive development is the Maven’s reaction:

    MBS’ actions are nothing short of pathbreaking and a new ME will emerge from these sweeping changes.

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    • Replies: @norse nestor
    You just might be the vilest person I have ever met.
    , @jacques sheete
    Q:

    Hey, JS. Not sure what you consider “too good to be true”… the torture of royal billionaires or the deal Kushner cut with MBS to sell out of the Pals for the dog owners to support his regime?
     
    A:
    … the torture of royal billionaires
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  71. Wally says:
    @Anonymous
    A mortgage is voluntary. I don't ever remember being asked if I wanted to pay taxes.

    Also if you purchased your home using a mortgage the bank holds the title to the property until you satisfy the terms of the loan. Nice mischaracterization of a mortgage agreement though. It was better than that half baked straw man you made for libertarians.

    Excellent response, thanks.

    In addition, once the house is paid for the banks cannot seize it.

    However, Big Government can seize it any time you fail to pay ‘property taxes’.

    Read More
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  72. @geokat62

    Sounds too good to be true; probably fake news Way too much publicity for it to be what it it’s supposed to appear to be.
     
    Hey, JS. Not sure what you consider "too good to be true"... the torture of royal billionaires or the deal Kushner cut with MBS to sell out of the Pals for the dog owners to support his regime?

    One sure sign this isn't a positive development is the Maven's reaction:

    MBS’ actions are nothing short of pathbreaking and a new ME will emerge from these sweeping changes.
     

    You just might be the vilest person I have ever met.

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    • Replies: @geokat62
    Care to explain why?
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  73. Art says:

    Or, is it more likely that The Axis of Goodness: Trump, Netanyahu and MBS, and the force behind them, that decided to free the hands of the strong-willed prince, who promised to surrender Jerusalem and present Palestine to the Jews in perpetuity? This was the offer of the old Saudis, who became the lords of Arabia because of their willingness to satisfy Jewish desires.

    For all three, the selling out of the Palestinians is a crime against humanity.

    For Trump it is a crime against all of America – the US presidents for the last 60 years have guaranteed Palestinian existence. The Palestinians are our responsibility. It is America that put the Jews in Palestine, stealing their sovereignty and wellbeing. How this falls out – is on us.

    Trump is going to soil all of us.

    Think Peace — Art

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  74. Proxenos says:

    ‘The Greeks have it even worse: they are in debt, biting the bullet of austerity, while the moneys the Greek state borrowed has lined the pockets of the rich.’
    You got this all wrong,mr Shamir! ALL Greeks,from the rich to street vendors and even the homeless,participated in the feast ,from the 80s up to 2008!Proportionately of course but everyone had their fingers in the jar of the honey! Starting with the billions given by the EU,for financing infrastructure,to bring the Greek state up to EU standards,witch was spent mostly on new housing,entertainment,luxury items and enlarging the political parties armies,to the heavy borrowing that all the governments practiced ,to maintain the huge parasitical bureaucratic state,that Greece is. Those who did not want to or could not participate in the sham,had to emigrate to other lands.

    Read More
    • Replies: @jacques sheete


    The Greeks have it even worse: they are in debt, biting the bullet of austerity, while the moneys the Greek state borrowed has lined the pockets of the rich.’
     
    You got this all wrong,mr Shamir!
     
    Dear Προξενος,

    While you are both correct, the big money boys got the goods and were in on the deal voluntarily. On the other hand, the man in the street got a few crumbs, but never agreed to them, and most probably would never have gone into debt for them.

    A huge tragedy is that the average Greek had low amounts of personal debt and were therefore ripe for picking. Sadly, a frugal population were forced into assuming responsibility for public debt that benefited mainly the rich.

    How can you blame the average Greek for using a modern "highway to nowhere" for which (s)he's indebted through no fault of his own?

    I simply cannot understand your position. Yannis Varoufakis wrote an excellent book (Adults in the Room) chronicling the enslavement of the Greek people who tried to correct matters by voting in politicians who promised to do right by them, but as usual they betrayed the Greeks who voted for them.

    What else could the people have done?

    The book: https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/1113208/adults-in-the-room/

    Ancient wisdom:


    Demos
    Oh! what a lot of good things! Why it's quite full! Oh! what a huge great part of this cake he kept for himself! [1220] He had only cut off the least little tiny piece for me.

    Sausage-Seller
    But this is what he has always done. Of everything he took, he only gave you the crumbs, and kept the bulk.

    - Aristophanes, The Knights, 424 BC

    http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0034%3Acard%3D1191
     

    , @alexander
    In terms of sorry states of affairs in overspending , comparing the Greek debt to the US Debt is like comparing a puddle to an ocean.

    The two main differences are 1) Greece, having joined the EU, is no longer able to print its own currency and monetize its debt. 2) Greece has relatively limited assets to collateralize its debt, compared to the US which (thank God) has close to 200 trillion in collective assets.

    But a look at the real numbers tells a sorrier tale for US citizens than it does for Greek citizens, that's for sure.

    There are about 11 million Greeks and their current national debt is @ 389 billion dollars.

    This amounts to @ $35 ,000 per citizen.

    The US, on the other hand, has about 325 million citizens and its current national debt is 20.5 TRILLION dollars.

    This amounts to @ $ 63,000 per US Citizen,

    Almost DOUBLE the debt "per person" of Greece.

    So the heinous overspending and criminal pilfering by our elites in Washington(over the last 17 years) has doubled the depth of the hole the good ole Us taxpayer is in......when compared to its counterparts in Greece.

    But you will never hear this sad fact on our "bogus" evening news.

    They cannot continue to pilfer your trillions if you are informed they are doing it...so its not talked about.
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  75. Did Jacob Rothchild suffer the same fate as Prince Mansour?

    http://twofeed.org/2017/11/18/jacob-rothschild-feared-dead-helicopter-plane-crash-estate/

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  76. @Israel Shamir
    Thank you for your selection! Let us look into it. First, pro-Kremlin. One, quoting MBS that Iran is Hitler, no comment. The second piece you referred to is an opinion by Mr Satanovsky, a leading Israel lobbyist in Russia, and his opinion is all that an Israeli lobbyist is likely to have. Third is supportive of MBS and says the West is not good enough to him because he didn't study in the West. Now for anti-Kremlin. One is just news flash about anticorruption campaign. Another is a very brief reference to the Daily Mail article I quote in my piece, again no comment. Even this item appeared after I posted it on the FB (I am widely read on the Russian FB). So, as I said, it is an Israeli opinion or a brief news report, as a rule.

    Mr Satanovsky, a leading Israel lobbyist in Russia

    I laughed so hard, thank you Mr. Shamir. Satan, indeed.

    But let’s backup to your piece, lest we sully ourselves with the dreaded anti-, and get clarification on: did you just basically say uncle Putin is in with the nasties?

    That’s the first question. The second question is, is it possible that you’re blowing smoke here with the class warfare justice playing anti-, oops, mr. Flat Earth himself? Kinda reverse blowjob, ala the hit piece b over at the moon of alabama? You know, Friedman swallows, and you don’t, that sort of thing.

    Thirdly, I’ve always wanted to ask a celebrity dissident like yourself — blush — I have this theory of mine, you know as I’m sitting at the bar, crying into my mug, shrugging off the ooh injustices of this cruel cruel world, knowing I could never be like MbS getting blowjobs in both directions from celebrity wordsmith on ze internet. Boo Hoo. Too bad we don’t have pouty putty pretty princes in our neck of the woods to hang say Eric Schmidt upside down while getting a bit of “harsh treatment” — that per our own Mr. President ala Twitter (oh the irony) — while a few Alphabet shares falls down to the floor from his pockets? Oh, that would be grand.

    And as I was pondering those self defeating thoughts, Mr. Israel Shamir, it occured to me, you see, that maybe, any old talking head embodied or not-, is ain’t gonna be on the global tele unless they are working for the fucking man, what do you think?

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    did you just basically say uncle Putin is in with the nasties?
     
    I say that Putin is not looking for conflicts. It is not the same as being with nasties. Putin tries to sit out of the struggle. So do Chinese.
    As for your other questions, I could not understand them, even with a dictionary.
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  77. renfro says:
    @Art

    Crown Prince MBS found a solution. He rounded up hundreds of the wealthiest people in his Kingdom, placed them in the posh five-star hotel Ritz Carlton in his capital Riyadh, and told them to cough up the dough. When they laughed at his face, he called for torturers to begin, Mafia-style, his extortion racket.
     
    Gee’ --- this guy is worse then Hitler. Hitler did not jail the Jew banksters who caused the German people to greatly suffer after WWI.

    Think Peace --- Art

    p.s. Gee’ --- Prince Jared and MBS are 30 something brothers --- Trump loves them.

    p.s. Hmm’ --- Wonder what business dealings Jared has with MBS?

    p.s. Hmm’ — Wonder what business dealings Jared has with MBS?

    Wonder no more…the Kushners are in deep dodo financially. Jared has been all over the world begging money for the 666 Fifth Ave white elephant he bought that is about to be foreclosed on in a few months unless he gets a big loan. He’s and his daddy are desperate and Jared has always been a daddy’s boy to his jailbird father so maybe Jared worked a deal with the Clown Prince. If you read this article you will understand how desperate Jared is—the question is will Trump help him out by trading off some US action or policy to foreign investor to pull Jared’s nuts out of the fire –or poor house.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2017-kushners-china-deal-flop-was-part-of-much-bigger-hunt-for-cash/

    Kushners’ China Deal Flop Was Part of Much Bigger Hunt for Cash

    By David Kocieniewski and Caleb Melby
    August 31, 2017

    [MORE]

    Jared Kushner, Donald Trump’s son-in-law and top adviser, wakes up each morning to a growing problem that will not go away. His family’s real estate business, Kushner Cos., owes hundreds of millions of dollars on a 41-story office building on Fifth Avenue. It has failed to secure foreign investors, despite an extensive search, and its resources are more limited than generally understood. As a result, the company faces significant challenges.

    Over the past two years, executives and family members have sought substantial overseas investment from previously undisclosed places: South Korea’s sovereign-wealth fund, France’s richest man, Israeli banks and insurance companies, and exploratory talks with a Saudi developer, according to former and current executives. These were in addition to previously reported attempts to raise money in China and Qatar.

    The family, once one of the largest landlords on the East Coast, sold thousands of apartments to finance its purchase of the tower in 2007 and has borrowed extensively for other purchases. They are walking away from a Brooklyn hotel once considered central to their plans for an office hub. From other properties, they are extracting cash, including tens of millions in borrowed funds from the recently acquired former New York Times building. What’s more, their partner in the Fifth Avenue building, Vornado Realty Trust, headed by Steve Roth, has stood aside, allowing the Kushners to pursue financing on their own.

    Kushner Cos. says it will prevail. Laurent Morali, the president, said the company has a variety of contingency plans for the building and its broader portfolio will allow it to sustain any setback. He said he is encouraged by the interest of several potential investors, but declined to name them.
    “Reports that portray it as a distressed situation are just not accurate for the building or for the company,” Morali said in an interview on the 15th floor of the building, 666 Fifth Avenue.
    But there are challenges all around. The mortgage on their tower is due in 18 months. This has led to concerns that Kushner could use—or has perhaps already used—his official position to prop up the family business despite having divested to close relatives his ownership in many projects to conform with government ethics requirements. Federal investigators are examining Kushner’s finances and business dealings, along with those of other Trump associates, as they probe possible collusion between the Kremlin and the Trump campaign. Kushner has already testified twice before closed congressional committees and denies mixing family business with his official role.
    This article, which describes new details of the company’s troubled finances and its overseas fundraising efforts, is based on a review of thousands of pages of financial documents and interviews with more than two dozen executives, business partners, real estate agents, deal participants and analysts. They spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss private deals. Some feared legal reprisals or other retaliation from one of the country’s most powerful families.

    It was 2006—the height of the real-estate market boom—when Kushner Cos. agreed to buy 666 Fifth Avenue for $1.8 billion, then a record for a Manhattan building. All of it was borrowed except for $50 million. The company still holds half of a $1.2 billion mortgage, on which it hasn’t paid a cent. The full amount is due in February 2019.
    The strain has become increasingly evident across their holdings. One person familiar with the company’s finances describes the tower, with its low ceilings and outdated floor plan, as the Jenga puzzle piece that could set the empire teetering.

    The family’s idea of how to salvage its investment requires razing the building to the ground and constructing an 80-story tower with greatly expanded retail areas and high-end condominiums. No short- or medium-term return can be expected from such an aggressive approach. Even a return over the long run would be speculative, though Morali describes the plan as “ambitious and creative.” That narrows the pool of investors to those interested in something other than profit. Real estate experts say this almost certainly precludes U.S. companies. More likely: a foreign firm looking to get capital out of its country or seeking a trophy Manhattan property.
    Before Trump began his rise to the presidency and the 36-year-old Kushner became his senior adviser, 666 Fifth Avenue struggled to attract serious offers. Meetings the Kushners requested were often rejected. After Trump’s nomination, billions of dollars in Asian and Middle Eastern money came under discussion. Two potential deals that made it to advanced stages, with China’sAnbang Insurance Group and a top Qatari sheikh, fell apart.

    The new status meant the Kushners’ calls were more readily answered—but they came with additional scrutiny, not only of the Kushners but also of the investors. Since January, the company has ceased entering into business relationships with sovereign entities, Morali said. Federal investigators want to know if the Fifth Avenue building’s finances came up in a post-election meeting Kushner had with the head of Russia’s state-controlled development bank.
    The Kushners have reason to look far afield. Even after selling big sections of 666 Fifth in 2011, they have increased their own vulnerability by borrowing more money for other deals, people close to the company say. After a refinancing, the deed to 666 Fifth sits in an escrow account, ready to be seized by lenders in a default, an action indicating their trust has grown thin. The mortgage will become even more of a burden after a scheduled jump in interest rates in December. Under some dire circumstances, guarantees in the refinancing agreement could even give lenders the ability to go after the family’s other assets—many of which are also underpinned by debt.
    Towering Debt
    Debt payments have almost always eclipsed net income at 666 Fifth Avenue. A two-year respite followed a hard-fought loan refinancing deal.

    While 666 Fifth Avenue has been a drain, Kushner Cos. has continued to make big moves across New York City, and company officials say those assets insulate the business. It has expanded its footprint by $1 billion, including the Times building and properties formerly owned by the Jehovah’s Witnesses, according to data firm Real Capital Analytics. Morali, sitting in a conference room below a painting of the company’s founders—Jared Kushner’s grandparents—says even a worst-case scenario at 666 Fifth would do minor damage to the company, because “it’s just one small piece of the portfolio.”
    But after selling 18,000 mid-Atlantic apartments in 2007, the Kushners only partially own a substantial number of the company’s assets. In many cases, Kushner Cos. has partnered with well-capitalized firms that want to invest in real estate and seek out experienced locals for deals. These include the Israeli firm Gaia Investment Corp. as well as Oaktree Capital Management, the Los Angeles-based asset manager, and Stonehage Fleming, a London firm that invests money on behalf of 250 wealthy families primarily from Europe, the Middle East, and Africa.
    As a privately held business, Kushners Cos. doesn’t generally have to disclose how ownership breaks down between it and its partners, and Morali declined to provide details. But there are clues. One Brooklyn development site purchased in 2014 for about $75 million and heralded by the real estate press as “Jared Kushner’s big Gowanus project”—so-named for the canal it abuts—is in fact barely owned by the Kushners at all. SL Green Realty Corp., their partner in the endeavor, owns 95 percent of it, according to a regulatory filing. The remaining 5 percent is split between the Kushners, and LIVWRK, another developer. Elsewhere in Brooklyn, where the Kushners partnered with RFR Realty to purchase buildings owned by the Jehovah’s Witnesses, they own about half of the project’s equity.
    It’s here where the Kushners have scaled back. Among the six buildings the partnership purchased for $375 million in 2013 is a 30-story hotel at 90 Sands Street scheduled to be turned over to the Kushner group later this year. Kushner Cos. is now exiting the partnership and selling its stake to RFR, Morali said. Leaving the property means narrowing its role in a planned tech-centric Brooklyn office hub—its most ambitious project since purchasing 666 Fifth.
    The Kushners are also extracting cash from properties in which they do own significant stakes. Six floors of the former New York Times building, which they purchased for $295 million in 2015, now have $370 million of debt against them, loan documents show. Of that amount, at least $59 million was used to return cash to the Kushners.
    Across the Hudson River at Trump Bay Street, a luxury residential building in Jersey City, the family plans to take out $50 million, Bloomberg previously reported. Efforts over the summer to obtain a $250 million mortgage for the property struggled in the face of controversy around their use of an investment-for-visa program. Now the company has found a lender, Morali says, declining to name the firm.
    Central to the fate of 666 Fifth yet noticeably absent from the gyrations around it, is Steve Roth, Vornado’s chairman and chief executive officer, whose firm owns almost half the building’s offices and most of its stores following a 2011 refinancing. When an analyst asked Roth about 666 Fifth in an August earnings call, he demurred, saying the issue was being debated. Two spokesmen for Roth declined to comment for this article.
    In 2014, at a meeting in his 57th Street headquarters with Jared Kushner and his father, Charles Kushner, as well as others wrestling with how to save the investment, Roth argued against the Kushners’ extravagant renovation plans, saying, “It would be worth a lot more if it was just dirt,” according to two people who were there.
    Roth is famous for his unsentimental patience. In an April letter to investors concerning a recent dip in demand for retail property, he described an opportunity to “feed on the carnage” for those with ample capital at their disposal—a chance to profit from the overleveraged and underprepared.
    That’s what Roth saw when his firm came to Kushner’s rescue in 2011, according to three people familiar with his thinking at the time. For $80 million and the assumption of half the debt, Vornado put itself in the best position to become 666 Fifth’s sole owner in the event of a restructuring or worse.
    This may help to explain why Vornado has allowed Kushner Cos. to shoulder the burden of hunting for potential partners and lenders, according to four people. Another reason: Roth’s concern about his own legacy. Now in his mid-70s, having exited retirement only after his handpicked successor left Vornado, he has little desire to gamble his career on a family and a property with uncertain futures, the people said.
    Morali said Vornado and Kushner Cos. are equal partners in the tower and will jointly decide its fate.

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    • Replies: @Art
    renfro ---- Thanks - an interesting article.

    WOW --- 1.8 billion building - 50 million down - less then 3% - such a deal.

    Prince Jared should have to disclose all his and his family's foreign business contacts.

    Think Peace --- Art

    , @Miro23
    It's an interesting story. Thanks for the link:

    https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2017-kushners-china-deal-flop-was-part-of-much-bigger-hunt-for-cash/
    , @anon
    Robert Parry disclosed few years back in consortiumnews an evolving much deeper relationship between Saudi and Israel which was reinforced with 14 billions dollars worth of bribery. It worked. Saudi became ' moderate' Islam . Yemen slaughtering disappeared from awareness. Internal torture kept on increasing in size . Saudi got a reprieve and in exchange Saudi had to pony up money,dispose the Palestnnian and assume the public position against Iran ,wear the visible face of anti Iran hatred ,talk the scripted language against Iran and accept the new narrative that it's not Israel but Saudi who is forcing American to act against Iran. A failure( fight against Iran ) will be worse than 911 and will be portrayed same way . Suddenly the media which now calls Saudi a moderate- thanks to the bribes by Saudi - will start calling for destruction of Saudi for misguiding and for persuading / or bribing America to war . Media will do it through the active guidance a of people like - Wulfowitz ,Shulsky,Scooter, Feith,Abrams,Perle, Wrumser, Kagan, Krauthammer, Kristol , Lewis , Pofohoretz .
    !! Sorry!! They have different names now . Israel wins again. It has hurt Iran and has exposed Saudi to more capitulation and manipulation. Very soon another paen will be penned by Tom Friedman for Saudi's daring attempt to reinterpret Koran and allow Israeli presence in Saudi administration,cabinet military,intelligence,and commerce . European kings and queens and democratic leaders were brought to heel by Jews moneybags in 18,19,and 20 th centuries .
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  78. geokat62 says:
    @norse nestor
    You just might be the vilest person I have ever met.

    Care to explain why?

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    • Replies: @norse nestor
    I seem to have replied to the wrong post. Sorry about that.
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  79. Cyrano says:
    @Anon
    You, Johny Rico, suggest that Putin has ordered to kill Mr. Nemtsov -- with a Kremlin Wall as a backdrop so that various Johny Ricos would not be confused about Putin’s dark plans re Nemtsov.
    A last poll before Nemtsov was shot showed that “only 45% of Russians even recognized Nemtsov's name; of those 45%, only 1% "trusted" him—compared to 17%, who said they did not trust him.” http://beforeitsnews.com/opinion-liberal/2015/03/according-to-a-jan-2014-poll-boris-nemtsov-was-one-of-the-least-trusted-opposition-leaders-in-moscow-with-1-approval-rating-2501174.html
    You, and your ziocon brethren, need to make a choice -- either you are dealing with an imbecile (Putin) and therefore the defeats by ziocons in Syria and elsewhere reveal that the ziocons are even less intelligent than Putin – or the "opposition leader” Nemtsov (who was trusted less than 1% of citizens of Russian Federation) most likely was killed for his digressions -- either because of his shadow financial dealings or because of his taste of very young women.
    “Even the “non-system” opposition refuses to blame the Kremlin” http://robinwestenra.blogspot.com/2015/03/goodnews-out-of-russia-even-non-system.html
    Nemtsov “was mixed up in all manner of shady, immoral, and possibly even illegal interpersonal and financial dealings. He had plenty of opportunity to make enemies for himself, and did not get along especially well with most of the so-called "Russian opposition." Once again, the fact he was shot at 6-8 times at point blank range, out of which only 4 shots hit, and moreover that his companion who was in perfect position to see who was shooting at Nemtsov was left alive and unharmed on the scene, suggests a personal animosity toward Nemtsov somehow related to this "relationship" (for lack of a better word--somehow I doubt the 55-year-old Nemtsov was going to marry the 23-year-old "actress-model) on the part of the shooter.”
    “Beginning in 2012, Nemtsov was co-chair of the Republican Party of Russia – People's Freedom Party (RPR-PARNAS).” This PARNAS: Putin opposition leader Kasyanov caught with his pants down in Strasbourg (Video): Kasyanov, a President of PARNAS party, in Strasbourg meeting with the official representatives from NATO to receive money to conduct anti-government operations in Russia. It’s a crime in Russia to receive money from foreign states and organizations to conduct anti-government activities.
    http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/anti-putin-opposition-leader-kasyanov-caught-his-pants-down-strasbourg-video/ri12646

    I think that Nemtsov chances for political career in Russia were doomed the moment he got born with that name. Nemtsov – if I am not mistaken – in Russian means “belonging to the Germans” or simply German. I have a lot of fun with that name, various Slavs call the Germans Nemtsi, which in Slavic languages means “mutes”. You see, when the Slavs first encountered the Germans, their language seemed so unintelligible to them that the Germans were as good as mutes, so they appropriately named them – Mutes – Nemtsi. Nemtsov simply had a wrong sounding name for a success in Russian politics.

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    • Replies: @Israel Shamir
    people made career in Russia with such names as Beria, Nesselrode, Benkendorf, Landau and Shoigu. So could Nemtsov - name-wise.
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  80. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @sarz
    What a wonderful confection from 'Shamir', a master at this sort of thing -- the shudder quotes as a tribute to whoever else has had a helping hand in this rhetorical construction apart from the short guy with the moustache. Like a committee in Herzliya.

    As always with this gentleman, one looks for a key. Here, I believe, it comes resplendent with garnish from the Iliad and Simone Weil. "This is Putin, in both his tempered use of force and in his steadfast dignity in weakness."

    Right. You see, it might look like the end of empire, but really, tempered and dignified in weakness Putin (Russia, that is, and Iran, Turkey, Syria and China) is not really a winner. And see, he's taking a bribe from Salman.

    That's a good one Israel (both of you). Not up to your masterpiece, though, how it's an insult to Arabs to deny that they did 9/11. But keep trying. In the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost.

    The “eternal victim” is upset? — Others also can deal with a Saudi despot, not only your “most democratic” and “most moral?”
    Surely Putin knows the drill; Russia used to be a playground for the fiery bolsheviks whose progeny has flocked to Israel, like this one: http://thesaker.is/bloody-monday-grandnephew-of-gulag-organizer-stabbed-the-echo-of-moscow-editor/
    “Naftaly Aronovich Frenkel (1883 – 1960) was a Jewish Russian businessman and member of the Soviet secret police. Frenkel is best known for his role in the organisation of work in the GULAG, starting from the forced labor camp of the Solovetsky Islands, which is recognised as one of the earliest sites of the GULAG.” — You should visit the place: everything is documented. Millions of Russians died there, tortured, murdered. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naftaly_Frenkel

    Nice that you mentioned the bribe … brings to mind the occupied Congress of special tourists to Israel.

    Read More
    • Agree: Miro23
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  81. Art says:
    @renfro

    p.s. Hmm’ — Wonder what business dealings Jared has with MBS?
     
    Wonder no more...the Kushners are in deep dodo financially. Jared has been all over the world begging money for the 666 Fifth Ave white elephant he bought that is about to be foreclosed on in a few months unless he gets a big loan. He's and his daddy are desperate and Jared has always been a daddy's boy to his jailbird father so maybe Jared worked a deal with the Clown Prince. If you read this article you will understand how desperate Jared is---the question is will Trump help him out by trading off some US action or policy to foreign investor to pull Jared's nuts out of the fire --or poor house.


    https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2017-kushners-china-deal-flop-was-part-of-much-bigger-hunt-for-cash/

    Kushners’ China Deal Flop Was Part of Much Bigger Hunt for Cash

    By David Kocieniewski and Caleb Melby
    August 31, 2017

    Jared Kushner, Donald Trump’s son-in-law and top adviser, wakes up each morning to a growing problem that will not go away. His family’s real estate business, Kushner Cos., owes hundreds of millions of dollars on a 41-story office building on Fifth Avenue. It has failed to secure foreign investors, despite an extensive search, and its resources are more limited than generally understood. As a result, the company faces significant challenges.

    Over the past two years, executives and family members have sought substantial overseas investment from previously undisclosed places: South Korea’s sovereign-wealth fund, France’s richest man, Israeli banks and insurance companies, and exploratory talks with a Saudi developer, according to former and current executives. These were in addition to previously reported attempts to raise money in China and Qatar.

    The family, once one of the largest landlords on the East Coast, sold thousands of apartments to finance its purchase of the tower in 2007 and has borrowed extensively for other purchases. They are walking away from a Brooklyn hotel once considered central to their plans for an office hub. From other properties, they are extracting cash, including tens of millions in borrowed funds from the recently acquired former New York Times building. What’s more, their partner in the Fifth Avenue building, Vornado Realty Trust, headed by Steve Roth, has stood aside, allowing the Kushners to pursue financing on their own.

    Kushner Cos. says it will prevail. Laurent Morali, the president, said the company has a variety of contingency plans for the building and its broader portfolio will allow it to sustain any setback. He said he is encouraged by the interest of several potential investors, but declined to name them.
    “Reports that portray it as a distressed situation are just not accurate for the building or for the company,” Morali said in an interview on the 15th floor of the building, 666 Fifth Avenue.
    But there are challenges all around. The mortgage on their tower is due in 18 months. This has led to concerns that Kushner could use—or has perhaps already used—his official position to prop up the family business despite having divested to close relatives his ownership in many projects to conform with government ethics requirements. Federal investigators are examining Kushner’s finances and business dealings, along with those of other Trump associates, as they probe possible collusion between the Kremlin and the Trump campaign. Kushner has already testified twice before closed congressional committees and denies mixing family business with his official role.
    This article, which describes new details of the company’s troubled finances and its overseas fundraising efforts, is based on a review of thousands of pages of financial documents and interviews with more than two dozen executives, business partners, real estate agents, deal participants and analysts. They spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss private deals. Some feared legal reprisals or other retaliation from one of the country’s most powerful families.

    It was 2006—the height of the real-estate market boom—when Kushner Cos. agreed to buy 666 Fifth Avenue for $1.8 billion, then a record for a Manhattan building. All of it was borrowed except for $50 million. The company still holds half of a $1.2 billion mortgage, on which it hasn’t paid a cent. The full amount is due in February 2019.
    The strain has become increasingly evident across their holdings. One person familiar with the company’s finances describes the tower, with its low ceilings and outdated floor plan, as the Jenga puzzle piece that could set the empire teetering.

    The family’s idea of how to salvage its investment requires razing the building to the ground and constructing an 80-story tower with greatly expanded retail areas and high-end condominiums. No short- or medium-term return can be expected from such an aggressive approach. Even a return over the long run would be speculative, though Morali describes the plan as “ambitious and creative.” That narrows the pool of investors to those interested in something other than profit. Real estate experts say this almost certainly precludes U.S. companies. More likely: a foreign firm looking to get capital out of its country or seeking a trophy Manhattan property.
    Before Trump began his rise to the presidency and the 36-year-old Kushner became his senior adviser, 666 Fifth Avenue struggled to attract serious offers. Meetings the Kushners requested were often rejected. After Trump’s nomination, billions of dollars in Asian and Middle Eastern money came under discussion. Two potential deals that made it to advanced stages, with China’sAnbang Insurance Group and a top Qatari sheikh, fell apart.

    The new status meant the Kushners’ calls were more readily answered—but they came with additional scrutiny, not only of the Kushners but also of the investors. Since January, the company has ceased entering into business relationships with sovereign entities, Morali said. Federal investigators want to know if the Fifth Avenue building’s finances came up in a post-election meeting Kushner had with the head of Russia’s state-controlled development bank.
    The Kushners have reason to look far afield. Even after selling big sections of 666 Fifth in 2011, they have increased their own vulnerability by borrowing more money for other deals, people close to the company say. After a refinancing, the deed to 666 Fifth sits in an escrow account, ready to be seized by lenders in a default, an action indicating their trust has grown thin. The mortgage will become even more of a burden after a scheduled jump in interest rates in December. Under some dire circumstances, guarantees in the refinancing agreement could even give lenders the ability to go after the family’s other assets—many of which are also underpinned by debt.
    Towering Debt
    Debt payments have almost always eclipsed net income at 666 Fifth Avenue. A two-year respite followed a hard-fought loan refinancing deal.

    While 666 Fifth Avenue has been a drain, Kushner Cos. has continued to make big moves across New York City, and company officials say those assets insulate the business. It has expanded its footprint by $1 billion, including the Times building and properties formerly owned by the Jehovah’s Witnesses, according to data firm Real Capital Analytics. Morali, sitting in a conference room below a painting of the company’s founders—Jared Kushner’s grandparents—says even a worst-case scenario at 666 Fifth would do minor damage to the company, because “it’s just one small piece of the portfolio.”
    But after selling 18,000 mid-Atlantic apartments in 2007, the Kushners only partially own a substantial number of the company’s assets. In many cases, Kushner Cos. has partnered with well-capitalized firms that want to invest in real estate and seek out experienced locals for deals. These include the Israeli firm Gaia Investment Corp. as well as Oaktree Capital Management, the Los Angeles-based asset manager, and Stonehage Fleming, a London firm that invests money on behalf of 250 wealthy families primarily from Europe, the Middle East, and Africa.
    As a privately held business, Kushners Cos. doesn’t generally have to disclose how ownership breaks down between it and its partners, and Morali declined to provide details. But there are clues. One Brooklyn development site purchased in 2014 for about $75 million and heralded by the real estate press as “Jared Kushner’s big Gowanus project”—so-named for the canal it abuts—is in fact barely owned by the Kushners at all. SL Green Realty Corp., their partner in the endeavor, owns 95 percent of it, according to a regulatory filing. The remaining 5 percent is split between the Kushners, and LIVWRK, another developer. Elsewhere in Brooklyn, where the Kushners partnered with RFR Realty to purchase buildings owned by the Jehovah’s Witnesses, they own about half of the project’s equity.
    It’s here where the Kushners have scaled back. Among the six buildings the partnership purchased for $375 million in 2013 is a 30-story hotel at 90 Sands Street scheduled to be turned over to the Kushner group later this year. Kushner Cos. is now exiting the partnership and selling its stake to RFR, Morali said. Leaving the property means narrowing its role in a planned tech-centric Brooklyn office hub—its most ambitious project since purchasing 666 Fifth.
    The Kushners are also extracting cash from properties in which they do own significant stakes. Six floors of the former New York Times building, which they purchased for $295 million in 2015, now have $370 million of debt against them, loan documents show. Of that amount, at least $59 million was used to return cash to the Kushners.
    Across the Hudson River at Trump Bay Street, a luxury residential building in Jersey City, the family plans to take out $50 million, Bloomberg previously reported. Efforts over the summer to obtain a $250 million mortgage for the property struggled in the face of controversy around their use of an investment-for-visa program. Now the company has found a lender, Morali says, declining to name the firm.
    Central to the fate of 666 Fifth yet noticeably absent from the gyrations around it, is Steve Roth, Vornado’s chairman and chief executive officer, whose firm owns almost half the building’s offices and most of its stores following a 2011 refinancing. When an analyst asked Roth about 666 Fifth in an August earnings call, he demurred, saying the issue was being debated. Two spokesmen for Roth declined to comment for this article.
    In 2014, at a meeting in his 57th Street headquarters with Jared Kushner and his father, Charles Kushner, as well as others wrestling with how to save the investment, Roth argued against the Kushners’ extravagant renovation plans, saying, “It would be worth a lot more if it was just dirt,” according to two people who were there.
    Roth is famous for his unsentimental patience. In an April letter to investors concerning a recent dip in demand for retail property, he described an opportunity to “feed on the carnage” for those with ample capital at their disposal—a chance to profit from the overleveraged and underprepared.
    That’s what Roth saw when his firm came to Kushner’s rescue in 2011, according to three people familiar with his thinking at the time. For $80 million and the assumption of half the debt, Vornado put itself in the best position to become 666 Fifth’s sole owner in the event of a restructuring or worse.
    This may help to explain why Vornado has allowed Kushner Cos. to shoulder the burden of hunting for potential partners and lenders, according to four people. Another reason: Roth’s concern about his own legacy. Now in his mid-70s, having exited retirement only after his handpicked successor left Vornado, he has little desire to gamble his career on a family and a property with uncertain futures, the people said.
    Morali said Vornado and Kushner Cos. are equal partners in the tower and will jointly decide its fate.

    renfro —- Thanks – an interesting article.

    WOW — 1.8 billion building – 50 million down – less then 3% – such a deal.

    Prince Jared should have to disclose all his and his family’s foreign business contacts.

    Think Peace — Art

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  82. Miro23 says:
    @renfro

    p.s. Hmm’ — Wonder what business dealings Jared has with MBS?
     
    Wonder no more...the Kushners are in deep dodo financially. Jared has been all over the world begging money for the 666 Fifth Ave white elephant he bought that is about to be foreclosed on in a few months unless he gets a big loan. He's and his daddy are desperate and Jared has always been a daddy's boy to his jailbird father so maybe Jared worked a deal with the Clown Prince. If you read this article you will understand how desperate Jared is---the question is will Trump help him out by trading off some US action or policy to foreign investor to pull Jared's nuts out of the fire --or poor house.


    https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2017-kushners-china-deal-flop-was-part-of-much-bigger-hunt-for-cash/

    Kushners’ China Deal Flop Was Part of Much Bigger Hunt for Cash

    By David Kocieniewski and Caleb Melby
    August 31, 2017

    Jared Kushner, Donald Trump’s son-in-law and top adviser, wakes up each morning to a growing problem that will not go away. His family’s real estate business, Kushner Cos., owes hundreds of millions of dollars on a 41-story office building on Fifth Avenue. It has failed to secure foreign investors, despite an extensive search, and its resources are more limited than generally understood. As a result, the company faces significant challenges.

    Over the past two years, executives and family members have sought substantial overseas investment from previously undisclosed places: South Korea’s sovereign-wealth fund, France’s richest man, Israeli banks and insurance companies, and exploratory talks with a Saudi developer, according to former and current executives. These were in addition to previously reported attempts to raise money in China and Qatar.

    The family, once one of the largest landlords on the East Coast, sold thousands of apartments to finance its purchase of the tower in 2007 and has borrowed extensively for other purchases. They are walking away from a Brooklyn hotel once considered central to their plans for an office hub. From other properties, they are extracting cash, including tens of millions in borrowed funds from the recently acquired former New York Times building. What’s more, their partner in the Fifth Avenue building, Vornado Realty Trust, headed by Steve Roth, has stood aside, allowing the Kushners to pursue financing on their own.

    Kushner Cos. says it will prevail. Laurent Morali, the president, said the company has a variety of contingency plans for the building and its broader portfolio will allow it to sustain any setback. He said he is encouraged by the interest of several potential investors, but declined to name them.
    “Reports that portray it as a distressed situation are just not accurate for the building or for the company,” Morali said in an interview on the 15th floor of the building, 666 Fifth Avenue.
    But there are challenges all around. The mortgage on their tower is due in 18 months. This has led to concerns that Kushner could use—or has perhaps already used—his official position to prop up the family business despite having divested to close relatives his ownership in many projects to conform with government ethics requirements. Federal investigators are examining Kushner’s finances and business dealings, along with those of other Trump associates, as they probe possible collusion between the Kremlin and the Trump campaign. Kushner has already testified twice before closed congressional committees and denies mixing family business with his official role.
    This article, which describes new details of the company’s troubled finances and its overseas fundraising efforts, is based on a review of thousands of pages of financial documents and interviews with more than two dozen executives, business partners, real estate agents, deal participants and analysts. They spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss private deals. Some feared legal reprisals or other retaliation from one of the country’s most powerful families.

    It was 2006—the height of the real-estate market boom—when Kushner Cos. agreed to buy 666 Fifth Avenue for $1.8 billion, then a record for a Manhattan building. All of it was borrowed except for $50 million. The company still holds half of a $1.2 billion mortgage, on which it hasn’t paid a cent. The full amount is due in February 2019.
    The strain has become increasingly evident across their holdings. One person familiar with the company’s finances describes the tower, with its low ceilings and outdated floor plan, as the Jenga puzzle piece that could set the empire teetering.

    The family’s idea of how to salvage its investment requires razing the building to the ground and constructing an 80-story tower with greatly expanded retail areas and high-end condominiums. No short- or medium-term return can be expected from such an aggressive approach. Even a return over the long run would be speculative, though Morali describes the plan as “ambitious and creative.” That narrows the pool of investors to those interested in something other than profit. Real estate experts say this almost certainly precludes U.S. companies. More likely: a foreign firm looking to get capital out of its country or seeking a trophy Manhattan property.
    Before Trump began his rise to the presidency and the 36-year-old Kushner became his senior adviser, 666 Fifth Avenue struggled to attract serious offers. Meetings the Kushners requested were often rejected. After Trump’s nomination, billions of dollars in Asian and Middle Eastern money came under discussion. Two potential deals that made it to advanced stages, with China’sAnbang Insurance Group and a top Qatari sheikh, fell apart.

    The new status meant the Kushners’ calls were more readily answered—but they came with additional scrutiny, not only of the Kushners but also of the investors. Since January, the company has ceased entering into business relationships with sovereign entities, Morali said. Federal investigators want to know if the Fifth Avenue building’s finances came up in a post-election meeting Kushner had with the head of Russia’s state-controlled development bank.
    The Kushners have reason to look far afield. Even after selling big sections of 666 Fifth in 2011, they have increased their own vulnerability by borrowing more money for other deals, people close to the company say. After a refinancing, the deed to 666 Fifth sits in an escrow account, ready to be seized by lenders in a default, an action indicating their trust has grown thin. The mortgage will become even more of a burden after a scheduled jump in interest rates in December. Under some dire circumstances, guarantees in the refinancing agreement could even give lenders the ability to go after the family’s other assets—many of which are also underpinned by debt.
    Towering Debt
    Debt payments have almost always eclipsed net income at 666 Fifth Avenue. A two-year respite followed a hard-fought loan refinancing deal.

    While 666 Fifth Avenue has been a drain, Kushner Cos. has continued to make big moves across New York City, and company officials say those assets insulate the business. It has expanded its footprint by $1 billion, including the Times building and properties formerly owned by the Jehovah’s Witnesses, according to data firm Real Capital Analytics. Morali, sitting in a conference room below a painting of the company’s founders—Jared Kushner’s grandparents—says even a worst-case scenario at 666 Fifth would do minor damage to the company, because “it’s just one small piece of the portfolio.”
    But after selling 18,000 mid-Atlantic apartments in 2007, the Kushners only partially own a substantial number of the company’s assets. In many cases, Kushner Cos. has partnered with well-capitalized firms that want to invest in real estate and seek out experienced locals for deals. These include the Israeli firm Gaia Investment Corp. as well as Oaktree Capital Management, the Los Angeles-based asset manager, and Stonehage Fleming, a London firm that invests money on behalf of 250 wealthy families primarily from Europe, the Middle East, and Africa.
    As a privately held business, Kushners Cos. doesn’t generally have to disclose how ownership breaks down between it and its partners, and Morali declined to provide details. But there are clues. One Brooklyn development site purchased in 2014 for about $75 million and heralded by the real estate press as “Jared Kushner’s big Gowanus project”—so-named for the canal it abuts—is in fact barely owned by the Kushners at all. SL Green Realty Corp., their partner in the endeavor, owns 95 percent of it, according to a regulatory filing. The remaining 5 percent is split between the Kushners, and LIVWRK, another developer. Elsewhere in Brooklyn, where the Kushners partnered with RFR Realty to purchase buildings owned by the Jehovah’s Witnesses, they own about half of the project’s equity.
    It’s here where the Kushners have scaled back. Among the six buildings the partnership purchased for $375 million in 2013 is a 30-story hotel at 90 Sands Street scheduled to be turned over to the Kushner group later this year. Kushner Cos. is now exiting the partnership and selling its stake to RFR, Morali said. Leaving the property means narrowing its role in a planned tech-centric Brooklyn office hub—its most ambitious project since purchasing 666 Fifth.
    The Kushners are also extracting cash from properties in which they do own significant stakes. Six floors of the former New York Times building, which they purchased for $295 million in 2015, now have $370 million of debt against them, loan documents show. Of that amount, at least $59 million was used to return cash to the Kushners.
    Across the Hudson River at Trump Bay Street, a luxury residential building in Jersey City, the family plans to take out $50 million, Bloomberg previously reported. Efforts over the summer to obtain a $250 million mortgage for the property struggled in the face of controversy around their use of an investment-for-visa program. Now the company has found a lender, Morali says, declining to name the firm.
    Central to the fate of 666 Fifth yet noticeably absent from the gyrations around it, is Steve Roth, Vornado’s chairman and chief executive officer, whose firm owns almost half the building’s offices and most of its stores following a 2011 refinancing. When an analyst asked Roth about 666 Fifth in an August earnings call, he demurred, saying the issue was being debated. Two spokesmen for Roth declined to comment for this article.
    In 2014, at a meeting in his 57th Street headquarters with Jared Kushner and his father, Charles Kushner, as well as others wrestling with how to save the investment, Roth argued against the Kushners’ extravagant renovation plans, saying, “It would be worth a lot more if it was just dirt,” according to two people who were there.
    Roth is famous for his unsentimental patience. In an April letter to investors concerning a recent dip in demand for retail property, he described an opportunity to “feed on the carnage” for those with ample capital at their disposal—a chance to profit from the overleveraged and underprepared.
    That’s what Roth saw when his firm came to Kushner’s rescue in 2011, according to three people familiar with his thinking at the time. For $80 million and the assumption of half the debt, Vornado put itself in the best position to become 666 Fifth’s sole owner in the event of a restructuring or worse.
    This may help to explain why Vornado has allowed Kushner Cos. to shoulder the burden of hunting for potential partners and lenders, according to four people. Another reason: Roth’s concern about his own legacy. Now in his mid-70s, having exited retirement only after his handpicked successor left Vornado, he has little desire to gamble his career on a family and a property with uncertain futures, the people said.
    Morali said Vornado and Kushner Cos. are equal partners in the tower and will jointly decide its fate.
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  83. @survey-of-disinfo

    Mr Satanovsky, a leading Israel lobbyist in Russia
     
    I laughed so hard, thank you Mr. Shamir. Satan, indeed.

    But let's backup to your piece, lest we sully ourselves with the dreaded anti-, and get clarification on: did you just basically say uncle Putin is in with the nasties?

    That's the first question. The second question is, is it possible that you're blowing smoke here with the class warfare justice playing anti-, oops, mr. Flat Earth himself? Kinda reverse blowjob, ala the hit piece b over at the moon of alabama? You know, Friedman swallows, and you don't, that sort of thing.

    Thirdly, I've always wanted to ask a celebrity dissident like yourself -- blush -- I have this theory of mine, you know as I'm sitting at the bar, crying into my mug, shrugging off the ooh injustices of this cruel cruel world, knowing I could never be like MbS getting blowjobs in both directions from celebrity wordsmith on ze internet. Boo Hoo. Too bad we don't have pouty putty pretty princes in our neck of the woods to hang say Eric Schmidt upside down while getting a bit of "harsh treatment" -- that per our own Mr. President ala Twitter (oh the irony) -- while a few Alphabet shares falls down to the floor from his pockets? Oh, that would be grand.

    And as I was pondering those self defeating thoughts, Mr. Israel Shamir, it occured to me, you see, that maybe, any old talking head embodied or not-, is ain't gonna be on the global tele unless they are working for the fucking man, what do you think?

    did you just basically say uncle Putin is in with the nasties?

    I say that Putin is not looking for conflicts. It is not the same as being with nasties. Putin tries to sit out of the struggle. So do Chinese.
    As for your other questions, I could not understand them, even with a dictionary.

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  84. @Cyrano
    I think that Nemtsov chances for political career in Russia were doomed the moment he got born with that name. Nemtsov – if I am not mistaken - in Russian means “belonging to the Germans” or simply German. I have a lot of fun with that name, various Slavs call the Germans Nemtsi, which in Slavic languages means “mutes”. You see, when the Slavs first encountered the Germans, their language seemed so unintelligible to them that the Germans were as good as mutes, so they appropriately named them – Mutes – Nemtsi. Nemtsov simply had a wrong sounding name for a success in Russian politics.

    people made career in Russia with such names as Beria, Nesselrode, Benkendorf, Landau and Shoigu. So could Nemtsov – name-wise.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon
    Agree.
    , @Cyrano
    Yes, I guess I made too much out of it. Name is not really a barrier.
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  85. Read More
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  86. alexander says:
    @jacques sheete

    ....but the incapacity of our deeply corrupt and compromised leaders to apply the law……. and right the wrong.
     
    Which is one good reason to NOT put much faith in the thing or any mortal with power.

    Constitution or no, most leaders either wind up corrupt or soon become that way. The constitution may sound good on paper, but it's nothing but words.

    The Constitution looked fairly good on paper, but it was not a popular document; people were suspicious of it, and suspicious of the enabling legislation that was being erected upon it. There was some ground for this. The Constitution had been laid down under unacceptable auspices; its history had been that of a coup d'état.

    - Albert Jay Nock [Excerpted from chapter 5 of Albert Jay Nock's Jefferson, published in 1926]
     

    Jacques,

    I do not believe the impending and heinous debt crisis facing our nation is a reflection of our
    representatives upholding constitutional principles, but abandoning them, en mass, to engage in “wars of aggression”.

    Imagine how wealthy, healthy and powerful our country would be TODAY had we not succumbed to wasting 14.5 trillion dollars of our solvency on our stupid , vapid, criminal wars abroad.

    Can you imagine how valuable the dollar would be today….how sought after our bonds would be ,around the world, if our deficit spending, since 9-11, was only 50 billion dollars a year , not 875 billion ?

    Look at the numbers, Jacques,

    In 2000,our National Debt was 5.6 trillion and our GDP was 9.9 trillion. ( a decent DEBT / GDP ratio of almost 1 to 2.)

    Today, our National Debt is ( a mind numbing) 20.5 trillion and our GDP is only 19.4 trillion.( this is a NEGATIVE DEBT/GDP ratio of 1 to .96)

    This is a national CATASTROPHE…a train wreck of monstrous criminal OVERSPENDING the likes of which has never been seen before on the face of the earth !

    Assuming that we kept our OVERSPENDING to a modest 50 billion per year since 2000, this would have added only 850 billion to our national debt for the same , 17 year,time period.

    Look at how GOLDEN our nation would be today had we not succumbed to committing the supreme crime of “war of aggression”.

    We would have a National Debt of only 6.45 trillion and a GDP of 19.4…a STELLAR “five star”DEBT/GDP ratio of 1 to 3….Fantastic !

    FANTASTIC !

    Our credit worthiness would be GOLDEN
    Our bonds would be GOLDEN
    Our currency would be GOLDEN,

    We would be the greatest nation on earth, a powerhouse of solvency and wealth, with massive reserves available to ignite growth in every quarter of industries.

    But we were lied into wars of aggression, and now we are bankrupt.

    A tragic end to a very special and wonderful nation with all the promise in the world.

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    • Replies: @renfro

    But we were lied into wars of aggression, and now we are bankrupt.
     
    Once the bankruptcy finally does catch us with us the same Jewish Oligarchs that raped the fallen USSR will buy up America for 2 cents on the dollar.
    So we could look at it as a glass half empty or a glass half full.....the half full being the catalyst to the Big Purge Revolution the USA sorely needs.
    , @edNels
    That concept of '

    '

    … very special and wonderful nation with all the promise in the world.
     
    is a bit of fantasy. Well, like they said: Sorry Charlie, but we want tuna what tastes good, not with Good Taste!

    When the Landed class of northern Europe including Ireland decided they would do better with out the burden of all the serfs and peasants on the land, and they could just run sheep out there and increase the net bottom line, they did the Enclosure Act.

    And so they sent them off to the New world to America and Austrailia etc. where they pioneered on untapped wealth of whole unexploited continents.

    I mean the peeps then ran free in America like the sheep did where they left out of. But a couple a hundred years hence, the exploitation has been evened out a lot due to technologies that brought exponentially increased application. To wit, that the job is done, and now the new continents are about used up in terms of the easy money quick buck rip and run methods, and now more devious extractive methods will ensue to mine the wealth, again involving dislocations of the peeps, or so to say… getting at the pay dirt might mean shaking the lucre out from anywhere that it might ah.. well starts with, hey Bub, what's in your wallet?

    So in conclusion: Humans have populated the earth and now the job for the upancommers, live wires, elites, greedy Morlochs, is to figure how to redefine their position at the top of the food chain, again.
     
    , @jacques sheete

    But we were lied into wars of aggression, and now we are bankrupt.

     

    Well yes. But that should come as no surprise since the constitution that everyone seems so enamored of was just another pious fraud. Full of promises that turned out to be lies.

    A tragic end to a very special and wonderful nation with all the promise in the world.
     
    It was always just a romantic dream meant to deceive us piss ants while our pockets were picked clean by the usual suspects.

    The constitution was never anything serious. Nobody in the ruling classes ever intended to be limited by it.

    The anti-Federalists were 99% correct except for a few insignificant predictions.
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  87. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Israel Shamir
    people made career in Russia with such names as Beria, Nesselrode, Benkendorf, Landau and Shoigu. So could Nemtsov - name-wise.

    Agree.

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  88. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Sherman
    Actually, the DJIA is up over 300 points today.

    I no longer have to imagine I'm wealthy.

    As much as I hate to admit it I'm doing very well under Trump.

    :)

    Sherm

    Sure.
    Unless your people are too pushy, the US and her dwellers have some time to survive and even to do well: “Israel And Saudi Arabia Urged A Preemptive US Strike On Iran Prior To Nuclear Deal”

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-12-01/john-kerry-israel-and-saudi-arabia-urged-preemptive-us-strike-iran-prior-nuclear-dea

    Could you fathom why the Israelis’ bloody belligerence (for the US expense, of course) against ancient state of Persia/Iran brings to mind the story of “dancing Israelis” on some faithful day in September? Even if (IF) MOSSAD was not involved in planning and implementing the miraculous events on the Lower Manhattan, the Israelis have heartily approved the tragedy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-W6LdB24-wU

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  89. ♫ Look around, our country’s gone to sh1t
    Some days I wanna quit, or just be a normie for a bit
    And it breaks my heart how you were once so strong
    But now it feels like your spirit’s entirely gone
    And I find myself watching old clips from the golden years
    On youtube, trying to hold back tears ♪

    Mr Bond – Where’d You Go?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon
    Making America second by the ZUSA's opportunists and incompetent and by betrayal of western vaues: http://thesaker.is/progress-report-on-the-us-russian-war/
    "The people of Russia and of the USA have exactly the same interests: bringing down the Empire with the least amount of violence and suffering as possible. Like all Empires, the US Empire mostly abused others in its formative and peak years, but as any decaying Empire it is now mostly abusing its own people. It is therefore vital to always repeat that an “Empire-free USA” would have no reason to see an enemy in Russia and vice-versa. In fact, Russia and the USA could be ideal partners, but the “imperial parasites” will not allow that to happen. Thus we are all stuck in an absurd and dangerous situation which could result in a war which would completely destroy most of our planet."
    , @Anon
    http://thesaker.is/progress-report-on-the-us-russian-war/
    "We are very, very far from the “birth of a new Middle-East” promised by Condi Rice (it is a new Middle-East alright, just not the one Rice and the Neocons had in mind!)
    As for the “only democracy in the Middle-East” it is now in full panic mode, hence their now overt plan to work with the Saudis against Iran and their clearly staged leaks about bombing all Iranian assets up to 40km from the Israeli border. .. to make sure they still look really fierce, the Israelis are now adding that in case of a war between Israel and Hezbollah, Secretary General Hassan Nasrallah would be a target.
    ... the folks in DC, Riyadh and Jerusalem, sooner or later they will have to do something and that “something” will be the usual nonsensical bloodbath this “Axis of Kindness” has been made famous for: if you can’t beat their military, make their civilians pay (think Kosovo 1999, Lebanon 2006, Yemen 2015). Either that or beat the shit out of a tiny, defenseless victim (Grenada 1983, Gaza 2008, Bahrain 2011). Nothing like a good massacre of defenseless civilians to make them feel manly, respected and powerful..."
    Sigh.
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  90. anonymos says:

    Very good piece.

    The MBS is a traitor, in the service of Zionist Project. He is black mailing his own citizens to collect billions of dollars that promised to zionist illiterate mass murderers, TRUMP REGIME for zionist project, attacking Iran.

    This traitor regime conducting foreign policy like ‘FAMILY BUSINESS’ surrounded by fifth columnists, and zionist servents, to conduct business with MBS in SECRET for ‘greater Israel’ project using an illiterate young zionist traitor to by pass Tillerson, the secretary of state. MBS is robbing Saudi businessmen to pay bribe to Trump regime to attack Iran.
    Trump regime is in the service of a foreign country, Israel, and a foreign project, ‘greater Israel’ dragging US into another war to satisfy zionist mass murderers, using a fifth column from the family to destroy Palestinian completely and Iran. Trump regime is run by the zionist mass murderers and fifth columnists to serve the interest of an apartheid entity.
    THIS IS ACT OF TREASON. Traitors in every country, including US, are executed.

    While ICC goes after President Omar Al Bashir in Sudan with Arrest Warrant for ‘crimes against humanity’, because he was defending his country against the zionist mass murderers to prevent partition of Sudan, which failed, The zionist and their stooges, American and British war criminals, are walking free. ICC is a zionist tool against other countries where should be closed and its pimps, pose as judges, put on trial as complicit with the war criminals.

    Now, partitioned South Sudan is a FAILED STATE like Libya and the majority of women up to 80 year old have been raped. This is the zionist project that the world MUST DESTROY.

    The following article is an EXCELLENT one where every one should read to be united against the main enemy, The zionists and its illiterate stooges at the Western center of power. Bring them down.

    [MORE]

    [What these ministers are not aware of, or maybe they are trying to ignore, the fact that all the intra-Arab crises and wars are mere series in the Zionist Great Israel Project extending from Nile to Euphrates. This Zionist Project aims basically to divide the Arab World into small weak statelets and emptying the region from its local indigenous residents either through brutal genocides or ethnic cleansing and eviction to other countries.

    Israel and the USA, and alas, with the full partnership of Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Bahrain, as many evidences had proved, had created, armed, and financed terrorist groups (ISIS and its offshoots) into the terrorist Islamic Khalifate project to execute this Zionist project.

    As the Arab League did not convene to defend the Palestinian Cause and to break the siege against the Gaza Strip, it did not convene either to form a united Arab military force to fight and defeat ISIS terrorist groups, who destroyed Syria, Iraq and threatened Lebanon, and who had slain their Arab brothers, raped their women and children, and sold them cheap in open slave markets. The League did not also convene when the Yemeni cities and civil infrastructures and civilians were continuously bombarded, starved, and died due to preventable diseases because of inhumane siege and lack of medical services.

    When the terrorist Islamic Caliphate project failed and the Syrian, Iraqi, Hezbollah fighters supported by Iran and Russia were successful in defeating these terrorists and protected the whole region from the spread of terror, the Saudi-bribed Arab foreign ministers gathered in the League, instead of expressing gratitude, hastened to accuse Iran of threatening the regional security, and Hezbollah of terrorism. The governments of these ministers did not move one finger go fight ISIS but provided them with weapons, money and training facilities in their countries.]

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-betraying-arab-league-at-a-time-of-crisis-in-the-arab-world/5620624

    Read More
    • Replies: @renfro

    Trump regime is in the service of a foreign country, Israel, and a foreign project, ‘greater Israel’ dragging US into another war to satisfy zionist mass murderers, using a fifth column from the family to destroy Palestinian completely and Iran. Trump regime is run by the zionist mass murderers and fifth columnists to serve the interest of an apartheid entity.
     
    I think that's pretty obvious now....but I wonder how many of his supports have caught on.
    The Fifth Column must have some explosive blackmail info on Trump.
    , @Art

    This traitor regime conducting foreign policy like ‘FAMILY BUSINESS’ surrounded by fifth columnists, and zionist servents, to conduct business with MBS in SECRET for ‘greater Israel’ project using an illiterate young zionist traitor to by pass Tillerson, the secretary of state.
     
    The Kushners are high-flying rule bending rich Jews with many shaky property deals. They need money. This is not good for America.

    The Kushners are rabid Israeli supporters. This is not good for America.

    The Kushners sit at the right hand of the president. They have him supporting MBS. This is not good for America.

    Think Peace --- Art
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  91. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Hank Rearden
    ♫ Look around, our country's gone to sh1t
    Some days I wanna quit, or just be a normie for a bit
    And it breaks my heart how you were once so strong
    But now it feels like your spirit's entirely gone
    And I find myself watching old clips from the golden years
    On youtube, trying to hold back tears ♪

    Mr Bond - Where'd You Go?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDMRd311xIo

    Making America second by the ZUSA’s opportunists and incompetent and by betrayal of western vaues: http://thesaker.is/progress-report-on-the-us-russian-war/
    “The people of Russia and of the USA have exactly the same interests: bringing down the Empire with the least amount of violence and suffering as possible. Like all Empires, the US Empire mostly abused others in its formative and peak years, but as any decaying Empire it is now mostly abusing its own people. It is therefore vital to always repeat that an “Empire-free USA” would have no reason to see an enemy in Russia and vice-versa. In fact, Russia and the USA could be ideal partners, but the “imperial parasites” will not allow that to happen. Thus we are all stuck in an absurd and dangerous situation which could result in a war which would completely destroy most of our planet.”

    Read More
    • Agree: RadicalCenter
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  92. TheJester says:
    @alexander
    I think this is the 640 billion dollar question.

    Mr. Shamir refers to the "ill gotten" gains of these Saudi oligarchs, but cannot tell us how or why they are "ill gotten".

    Furthermore, we are unable to see which oligarchs, with "ill gotten" gains, escaped unscathed, and why.

    In short, we are unable to gauge the levels of duplicity and hypocrisy, at work, in the crackdown.

    Mr. Shamir tells us Saudi Arabia is "broke" but does not tell us why it is "broke".

    Certainly the price hike at the pump from our Iraq war, from $1.29 a gallon to almost $5.50 a gallon(at peak) represented perhaps several trillions of dollars in pure profit for Saudi Arabia (and others) over the six year time frame.

    Could it have squandered all that "extra"money quite so fast ?

    The "night of the long knives" in the kingdom represents an extraordinary consolidation of wealth and power into the hands of one very young Monarch.

    One wonders what his plans are over the next several years and who will benefit most from them.

    Having lived and worked in Saudi Arabia and the Middle East for a decade with normal powers of observation, yes, I can conclude that the gains of the Saudi princes are “ill-gotten”.

    Nothing moves in Saudi Arabia without baksheesh … loosely translated as “bribery” that operates as a cover for massive corruption or, as it is practiced in Africa, euphemistically showering power brokers with massive “appreciation” ahead of whatever needs to get done.

    Baksheesh is also known as “walking money” for people who need to pay off anyone and everyone who have the power to intervene to keep something from happening.

    Indeed, it is theoretically possible for power brokers to demand so much baksheesh that it consumes a project’s entire budget, leaving nothing for execution. I ran into a number of these in my time in the Middle East. I also heard about a few in Yeltsin’s Russia. Laughable … all the way to the bank for the power brokers, anyway.

    It is interesting to see that a number of Saudi princes with whom I interacted are now living in the Riyadh Ritz Carlton.

    To understand why they are there, I recall the euphemism in the Middle East that, if you are in legal trouble, there is something wrong with your politics.

    Regardless, “There is a God ….” Nixon had it coming, and now some of the Saudi princes are getting their just due.

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  93. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Hank Rearden
    ♫ Look around, our country's gone to sh1t
    Some days I wanna quit, or just be a normie for a bit
    And it breaks my heart how you were once so strong
    But now it feels like your spirit's entirely gone
    And I find myself watching old clips from the golden years
    On youtube, trying to hold back tears ♪

    Mr Bond - Where'd You Go?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDMRd311xIo

    http://thesaker.is/progress-report-on-the-us-russian-war/

    “We are very, very far from the “birth of a new Middle-East” promised by Condi Rice (it is a new Middle-East alright, just not the one Rice and the Neocons had in mind!)
    As for the “only democracy in the Middle-East” it is now in full panic mode, hence their now overt plan to work with the Saudis against Iran and their clearly staged leaks about bombing all Iranian assets up to 40km from the Israeli border. .. to make sure they still look really fierce, the Israelis are now adding that in case of a war between Israel and Hezbollah, Secretary General Hassan Nasrallah would be a target.
    … the folks in DC, Riyadh and Jerusalem, sooner or later they will have to do something and that “something” will be the usual nonsensical bloodbath this “Axis of Kindness” has been made famous for: if you can’t beat their military, make their civilians pay (think Kosovo 1999, Lebanon 2006, Yemen 2015). Either that or beat the shit out of a tiny, defenseless victim (Grenada 1983, Gaza 2008, Bahrain 2011). Nothing like a good massacre of defenseless civilians to make them feel manly, respected and powerful…”
    Sigh.

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  94. renfro says:
    @alexander
    Jacques,

    I do not believe the impending and heinous debt crisis facing our nation is a reflection of our
    representatives upholding constitutional principles, but abandoning them, en mass, to engage in "wars of aggression".

    Imagine how wealthy, healthy and powerful our country would be TODAY had we not succumbed to wasting 14.5 trillion dollars of our solvency on our stupid , vapid, criminal wars abroad.

    Can you imagine how valuable the dollar would be today....how sought after our bonds would be ,around the world, if our deficit spending, since 9-11, was only 50 billion dollars a year , not 875 billion ?

    Look at the numbers, Jacques,

    In 2000,our National Debt was 5.6 trillion and our GDP was 9.9 trillion. ( a decent DEBT / GDP ratio of almost 1 to 2.)

    Today, our National Debt is ( a mind numbing) 20.5 trillion and our GDP is only 19.4 trillion.( this is a NEGATIVE DEBT/GDP ratio of 1 to .96)

    This is a national CATASTROPHE...a train wreck of monstrous criminal OVERSPENDING the likes of which has never been seen before on the face of the earth !

    Assuming that we kept our OVERSPENDING to a modest 50 billion per year since 2000, this would have added only 850 billion to our national debt for the same , 17 year,time period.

    Look at how GOLDEN our nation would be today had we not succumbed to committing the supreme crime of "war of aggression".

    We would have a National Debt of only 6.45 trillion and a GDP of 19.4...a STELLAR "five star"DEBT/GDP ratio of 1 to 3....Fantastic !

    FANTASTIC !

    Our credit worthiness would be GOLDEN
    Our bonds would be GOLDEN
    Our currency would be GOLDEN,

    We would be the greatest nation on earth, a powerhouse of solvency and wealth, with massive reserves available to ignite growth in every quarter of industries.

    But we were lied into wars of aggression, and now we are bankrupt.

    A tragic end to a very special and wonderful nation with all the promise in the world.

    But we were lied into wars of aggression, and now we are bankrupt.

    Once the bankruptcy finally does catch us with us the same Jewish Oligarchs that raped the fallen USSR will buy up America for 2 cents on the dollar.
    So we could look at it as a glass half empty or a glass half full…..the half full being the catalyst to the Big Purge Revolution the USA sorely needs.

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  95. renfro says:
    @anonymos
    Very good piece.

    The MBS is a traitor, in the service of Zionist Project. He is black mailing his own citizens to collect billions of dollars that promised to zionist illiterate mass murderers, TRUMP REGIME for zionist project, attacking Iran.

    This traitor regime conducting foreign policy like 'FAMILY BUSINESS' surrounded by fifth columnists, and zionist servents, to conduct business with MBS in SECRET for 'greater Israel' project using an illiterate young zionist traitor to by pass Tillerson, the secretary of state. MBS is robbing Saudi businessmen to pay bribe to Trump regime to attack Iran.
    Trump regime is in the service of a foreign country, Israel, and a foreign project, 'greater Israel' dragging US into another war to satisfy zionist mass murderers, using a fifth column from the family to destroy Palestinian completely and Iran. Trump regime is run by the zionist mass murderers and fifth columnists to serve the interest of an apartheid entity.
    THIS IS ACT OF TREASON. Traitors in every country, including US, are executed.

    While ICC goes after President Omar Al Bashir in Sudan with Arrest Warrant for 'crimes against humanity', because he was defending his country against the zionist mass murderers to prevent partition of Sudan, which failed, The zionist and their stooges, American and British war criminals, are walking free. ICC is a zionist tool against other countries where should be closed and its pimps, pose as judges, put on trial as complicit with the war criminals.

    Now, partitioned South Sudan is a FAILED STATE like Libya and the majority of women up to 80 year old have been raped. This is the zionist project that the world MUST DESTROY.

    The following article is an EXCELLENT one where every one should read to be united against the main enemy, The zionists and its illiterate stooges at the Western center of power. Bring them down.



    [What these ministers are not aware of, or maybe they are trying to ignore, the fact that all the intra-Arab crises and wars are mere series in the Zionist Great Israel Project extending from Nile to Euphrates. This Zionist Project aims basically to divide the Arab World into small weak statelets and emptying the region from its local indigenous residents either through brutal genocides or ethnic cleansing and eviction to other countries.

    Israel and the USA, and alas, with the full partnership of Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Bahrain, as many evidences had proved, had created, armed, and financed terrorist groups (ISIS and its offshoots) into the terrorist Islamic Khalifate project to execute this Zionist project.

    As the Arab League did not convene to defend the Palestinian Cause and to break the siege against the Gaza Strip, it did not convene either to form a united Arab military force to fight and defeat ISIS terrorist groups, who destroyed Syria, Iraq and threatened Lebanon, and who had slain their Arab brothers, raped their women and children, and sold them cheap in open slave markets. The League did not also convene when the Yemeni cities and civil infrastructures and civilians were continuously bombarded, starved, and died due to preventable diseases because of inhumane siege and lack of medical services.

    When the terrorist Islamic Caliphate project failed and the Syrian, Iraqi, Hezbollah fighters supported by Iran and Russia were successful in defeating these terrorists and protected the whole region from the spread of terror, the Saudi-bribed Arab foreign ministers gathered in the League, instead of expressing gratitude, hastened to accuse Iran of threatening the regional security, and Hezbollah of terrorism. The governments of these ministers did not move one finger go fight ISIS but provided them with weapons, money and training facilities in their countries.]



    https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-betraying-arab-league-at-a-time-of-crisis-in-the-arab-world/5620624

    Trump regime is in the service of a foreign country, Israel, and a foreign project, ‘greater Israel’ dragging US into another war to satisfy zionist mass murderers, using a fifth column from the family to destroy Palestinian completely and Iran. Trump regime is run by the zionist mass murderers and fifth columnists to serve the interest of an apartheid entity.

    I think that’s pretty obvious now….but I wonder how many of his supports have caught on.
    The Fifth Column must have some explosive blackmail info on Trump.

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  96. @geokat62
    Care to explain why?

    I seem to have replied to the wrong post. Sorry about that.

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  97. Cyrano says:
    @Israel Shamir
    people made career in Russia with such names as Beria, Nesselrode, Benkendorf, Landau and Shoigu. So could Nemtsov - name-wise.

    Yes, I guess I made too much out of it. Name is not really a barrier.

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  98. edNels says:
    @alexander
    Jacques,

    I do not believe the impending and heinous debt crisis facing our nation is a reflection of our
    representatives upholding constitutional principles, but abandoning them, en mass, to engage in "wars of aggression".

    Imagine how wealthy, healthy and powerful our country would be TODAY had we not succumbed to wasting 14.5 trillion dollars of our solvency on our stupid , vapid, criminal wars abroad.

    Can you imagine how valuable the dollar would be today....how sought after our bonds would be ,around the world, if our deficit spending, since 9-11, was only 50 billion dollars a year , not 875 billion ?

    Look at the numbers, Jacques,

    In 2000,our National Debt was 5.6 trillion and our GDP was 9.9 trillion. ( a decent DEBT / GDP ratio of almost 1 to 2.)

    Today, our National Debt is ( a mind numbing) 20.5 trillion and our GDP is only 19.4 trillion.( this is a NEGATIVE DEBT/GDP ratio of 1 to .96)

    This is a national CATASTROPHE...a train wreck of monstrous criminal OVERSPENDING the likes of which has never been seen before on the face of the earth !

    Assuming that we kept our OVERSPENDING to a modest 50 billion per year since 2000, this would have added only 850 billion to our national debt for the same , 17 year,time period.

    Look at how GOLDEN our nation would be today had we not succumbed to committing the supreme crime of "war of aggression".

    We would have a National Debt of only 6.45 trillion and a GDP of 19.4...a STELLAR "five star"DEBT/GDP ratio of 1 to 3....Fantastic !

    FANTASTIC !

    Our credit worthiness would be GOLDEN
    Our bonds would be GOLDEN
    Our currency would be GOLDEN,

    We would be the greatest nation on earth, a powerhouse of solvency and wealth, with massive reserves available to ignite growth in every quarter of industries.

    But we were lied into wars of aggression, and now we are bankrupt.

    A tragic end to a very special and wonderful nation with all the promise in the world.

    That concept of ‘

    … very special and wonderful nation with all the promise in the world.

    is a bit of fantasy. Well, like they said: Sorry Charlie, but we want tuna what tastes good, not with Good Taste!

    When the Landed class of northern Europe including Ireland decided they would do better with out the burden of all the serfs and peasants on the land, and they could just run sheep out there and increase the net bottom line, they did the Enclosure Act.

    And so they sent them off to the New world to America and Austrailia etc. where they pioneered on untapped wealth of whole unexploited continents.

    I mean the peeps then ran free in America like the sheep did where they left out of. But a couple a hundred years hence, the exploitation has been evened out a lot due to technologies that brought exponentially increased application. To wit, that the job is done, and now the new continents are about used up in terms of the easy money quick buck rip and run methods, and now more devious extractive methods will ensue to mine the wealth, again involving dislocations of the peeps, or so to say… getting at the pay dirt might mean shaking the lucre out from anywhere that it might ah.. well starts with, hey Bub, what’s in your wallet?

    So in conclusion: Humans have populated the earth and now the job for the upancommers, live wires, elites, greedy Morlochs, is to figure how to redefine their position at the top of the food chain, again.

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  99. Thirdeye says:
    @jacques sheete
    In my mind, this is a huge key concept, and one that way too few realize...

    If a hundred years ago, [certain international bankers, not necessarily Jews] pushed the unwilling US into WWI ...
     
    Something similar happened in WW2 as well. Banksters built up Germany so it could weaken Russia, then they threw Germany under the bus and took what they had, making both states puppets, or at least dependent, at least temporarily.

    It was typical Brit "diplomacy" which was as masterful as it was deadly. And the banksters profit to this day. I'd like to see the lot of them get the Abu Ghraib treatment for the rest of their miserable lives.

    If a hundred years ago, [certain international bankers, not necessarily Jews] pushed the unwilling US into WWI …

    Good catch. The whole idea that the bankers who led the charge into WWI were Jewish is based on thin and, at best, ambiguous evidence. There was one document by British Jewish leaders ca. 1940 pleading for Britain to create a Jewish armed force in Palestine, which referred to the purportedly indispensable role of Jews in helping Britain in WWI. IMO that claim is self-serving and carries no weight as historical authority. Then there’s the James Malcolm declaration on the process that led Lord Balfour to promise Palestine to Jews in return for their help with Britain’s war aims. An objective reading of it shows that it was more about overcoming Jewish foot-dragging on war on the side of the Russian Tsar. That aspect is discussed on page 3.


    [MORE]

    The operators of the stinky website that hosts those image files have done a service by sharing the information showing that the Malcolm Declaration does not support their case that Jews led the American charge into WWI. By the time Untermeyer and Brandeis got flipped the war drums were already beating and those in the Wilson Administration who adhered to the law on neutrality, such as William Jennings Bryan, had already been purged. The WASP banking establishment, which was heavily invested in the British war effort, was leading the charge.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Alfred
    The book "Hidden History: The Secret Origins of the First World War." by Gerry Docherty and Jim MacGregor

    http://amzn.com/1780576307

    has numerous examples of how British Jewish bankers controlled the script. The crown prince, Edward, was deeply in debt to them. His mother, queen Victoria, tried to stop him womanising by limiting his pocket-money. A whole series of British senior politicians - e.g. Winston Churchill and his father Randolph Churchill - were beholden to them.

    They planned, together with the British elite, to weaken Germany by forcing a war in which France and Russia would make the most effort. The French were the traditional enemies of England and in no time at all that was changed. The Germans became the enemy. The media manipulated the public - just like today with all these attempts to demonise Putin and the Russians.
    , @utu
    The whole idea that the bankers who led the charge into WWI were Jewish is based on thin and, at best, ambiguous evidence.

    it was more about overcoming Jewish foot-dragging on war on the side of the Russian Tsar.

    Sure! British Empire just wanted to have support of American Jewry, i.e., middle class Jews like tailors and seamstresses in Schmatta District who would change American's foreign policy by exercising their democratic rights at polls. For some reason this ethnic group that constituted less then 2% of population of America as well as of Russia was important to British Foreign Office.

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  100. Art says:
    @anonymos
    Very good piece.

    The MBS is a traitor, in the service of Zionist Project. He is black mailing his own citizens to collect billions of dollars that promised to zionist illiterate mass murderers, TRUMP REGIME for zionist project, attacking Iran.

    This traitor regime conducting foreign policy like 'FAMILY BUSINESS' surrounded by fifth columnists, and zionist servents, to conduct business with MBS in SECRET for 'greater Israel' project using an illiterate young zionist traitor to by pass Tillerson, the secretary of state. MBS is robbing Saudi businessmen to pay bribe to Trump regime to attack Iran.
    Trump regime is in the service of a foreign country, Israel, and a foreign project, 'greater Israel' dragging US into another war to satisfy zionist mass murderers, using a fifth column from the family to destroy Palestinian completely and Iran. Trump regime is run by the zionist mass murderers and fifth columnists to serve the interest of an apartheid entity.
    THIS IS ACT OF TREASON. Traitors in every country, including US, are executed.

    While ICC goes after President Omar Al Bashir in Sudan with Arrest Warrant for 'crimes against humanity', because he was defending his country against the zionist mass murderers to prevent partition of Sudan, which failed, The zionist and their stooges, American and British war criminals, are walking free. ICC is a zionist tool against other countries where should be closed and its pimps, pose as judges, put on trial as complicit with the war criminals.

    Now, partitioned South Sudan is a FAILED STATE like Libya and the majority of women up to 80 year old have been raped. This is the zionist project that the world MUST DESTROY.

    The following article is an EXCELLENT one where every one should read to be united against the main enemy, The zionists and its illiterate stooges at the Western center of power. Bring them down.



    [What these ministers are not aware of, or maybe they are trying to ignore, the fact that all the intra-Arab crises and wars are mere series in the Zionist Great Israel Project extending from Nile to Euphrates. This Zionist Project aims basically to divide the Arab World into small weak statelets and emptying the region from its local indigenous residents either through brutal genocides or ethnic cleansing and eviction to other countries.

    Israel and the USA, and alas, with the full partnership of Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Bahrain, as many evidences had proved, had created, armed, and financed terrorist groups (ISIS and its offshoots) into the terrorist Islamic Khalifate project to execute this Zionist project.

    As the Arab League did not convene to defend the Palestinian Cause and to break the siege against the Gaza Strip, it did not convene either to form a united Arab military force to fight and defeat ISIS terrorist groups, who destroyed Syria, Iraq and threatened Lebanon, and who had slain their Arab brothers, raped their women and children, and sold them cheap in open slave markets. The League did not also convene when the Yemeni cities and civil infrastructures and civilians were continuously bombarded, starved, and died due to preventable diseases because of inhumane siege and lack of medical services.

    When the terrorist Islamic Caliphate project failed and the Syrian, Iraqi, Hezbollah fighters supported by Iran and Russia were successful in defeating these terrorists and protected the whole region from the spread of terror, the Saudi-bribed Arab foreign ministers gathered in the League, instead of expressing gratitude, hastened to accuse Iran of threatening the regional security, and Hezbollah of terrorism. The governments of these ministers did not move one finger go fight ISIS but provided them with weapons, money and training facilities in their countries.]



    https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-betraying-arab-league-at-a-time-of-crisis-in-the-arab-world/5620624

    This traitor regime conducting foreign policy like ‘FAMILY BUSINESS’ surrounded by fifth columnists, and zionist servents, to conduct business with MBS in SECRET for ‘greater Israel’ project using an illiterate young zionist traitor to by pass Tillerson, the secretary of state.

    The Kushners are high-flying rule bending rich Jews with many shaky property deals. They need money. This is not good for America.

    The Kushners are rabid Israeli supporters. This is not good for America.

    The Kushners sit at the right hand of the president. They have him supporting MBS. This is not good for America.

    Think Peace — Art

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  101. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    The Kaganat of Clinton-Sarkozy (formerly known as sovereign state of Libya) has been selected by ISIS as its new center of operation. http://thesaker.is/syrian-war-report-december-1-2017-isis-plans-to-move-its-caliphate-to-libya/
    “ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi has ordered the remnants of the terrorist group to focus on Libya to compensate for losses in Iraq and Syria … to turn southern Libya into a new ISIS base, which will be used for operations in North Africa, including Egypt, Tunisia and Algeria.”

    The choice is understandable: NATO/Saudi’s actions in the formerly prosperous Libya have prepared the country for the triumph of “moderate jihadists” and other “freedom fighters” of Wahhabi brand — as well as for slave trade: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/20/migrant-slave-trade-libya-europe.
    See American taxpayers’ billions of dollars in action in the Middle East: https://www.forbes.com/sites/beltway/2011/03/28/the-real-cost-of-u-s-in-libya-two-billion-dollars-per-day/#2868267e7b5f, ” The real cost of U.S. In Libya? Two billion dollars per day.”

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  102. Alfred says:
    @Thirdeye

    If a hundred years ago, [certain international bankers, not necessarily Jews] pushed the unwilling US into WWI …
     
    Good catch. The whole idea that the bankers who led the charge into WWI were Jewish is based on thin and, at best, ambiguous evidence. There was one document by British Jewish leaders ca. 1940 pleading for Britain to create a Jewish armed force in Palestine, which referred to the purportedly indispensable role of Jews in helping Britain in WWI. IMO that claim is self-serving and carries no weight as historical authority. Then there's the James Malcolm declaration on the process that led Lord Balfour to promise Palestine to Jews in return for their help with Britain's war aims. An objective reading of it shows that it was more about overcoming Jewish foot-dragging on war on the side of the Russian Tsar. That aspect is discussed on page 3.

    http://www.mailstar.net/Malcolm-front-cover.gif

    http://www.mailstar.net/Malcolm-inside-cover.gif

    http://www.mailstar.net/Malcolm-p.1.gif

    http://www.mailstar.net/Malcolm-p.2.gif

    http://www.mailstar.net/Malcolm-p.3.gif

    http://www.mailstar.net/Malcolm-p.4.gif

    http://www.mailstar.net/Malcolm-p.5.gif

    http://www.mailstar.net/Malcolm-p.6.gif

    http://www.mailstar.net/Malcolm-p.7.gif

    http://www.mailstar.net/Malcolm-p.8.gif

    http://www.mailstar.net/Malcolm-p.9.gif

    http://www.mailstar.net/Malcolm-p.10.gif

    http://www.mailstar.net/Malcolm-p.11.gif

    http://www.mailstar.net/Malcolm-p.12.gif

    The operators of the stinky website that hosts those image files have done a service by sharing the information showing that the Malcolm Declaration does not support their case that Jews led the American charge into WWI. By the time Untermeyer and Brandeis got flipped the war drums were already beating and those in the Wilson Administration who adhered to the law on neutrality, such as William Jennings Bryan, had already been purged. The WASP banking establishment, which was heavily invested in the British war effort, was leading the charge.

    The book “Hidden History: The Secret Origins of the First World War.” by Gerry Docherty and Jim MacGregor

    http://amzn.com/1780576307

    has numerous examples of how British Jewish bankers controlled the script. The crown prince, Edward, was deeply in debt to them. His mother, queen Victoria, tried to stop him womanising by limiting his pocket-money. A whole series of British senior politicians – e.g. Winston Churchill and his father Randolph Churchill – were beholden to them.

    They planned, together with the British elite, to weaken Germany by forcing a war in which France and Russia would make the most effort. The French were the traditional enemies of England and in no time at all that was changed. The Germans became the enemy. The media manipulated the public – just like today with all these attempts to demonise Putin and the Russians.

    Read More
    • Replies: @jacques sheete

    The media manipulated the public – just like today with all these attempts to demonise Putin and the Russians.
     
    Did they ever! Good comment.
    , @Thirdeye
    The British imperialists didn't need any convincing that they wanted to stop the rise of Germany. The Rothschilds weren't particular about whether their profits came from Britain or Germany. It was the Rothschilds who were brought in line with British imperial interests, not the other way around.

    The Franco-Russian alliance made the Brits uneasy. They did not want a war that would result in an increase in Russian power. They regarded taking out Germany as an interruption of their Great Game against Russia and unfinished business with Russia would again come to the top of the agenda. The Gallipoli campaign was about keeping Russia from gaining control of the Bosporus in the event that Russia defeated Turkey.

    There is some credence to the idea that the Brits wanted Germany and Russia to beat each other's brains out, then do a clean-up with France. That was how they approached WWII in its early months, but Germany buggered the strategy by rolling over France first.
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  103. utu says:
    @Thirdeye

    If a hundred years ago, [certain international bankers, not necessarily Jews] pushed the unwilling US into WWI …
     
    Good catch. The whole idea that the bankers who led the charge into WWI were Jewish is based on thin and, at best, ambiguous evidence. There was one document by British Jewish leaders ca. 1940 pleading for Britain to create a Jewish armed force in Palestine, which referred to the purportedly indispensable role of Jews in helping Britain in WWI. IMO that claim is self-serving and carries no weight as historical authority. Then there's the James Malcolm declaration on the process that led Lord Balfour to promise Palestine to Jews in return for their help with Britain's war aims. An objective reading of it shows that it was more about overcoming Jewish foot-dragging on war on the side of the Russian Tsar. That aspect is discussed on page 3.

    http://www.mailstar.net/Malcolm-front-cover.gif

    http://www.mailstar.net/Malcolm-inside-cover.gif

    http://www.mailstar.net/Malcolm-p.1.gif

    http://www.mailstar.net/Malcolm-p.2.gif

    http://www.mailstar.net/Malcolm-p.3.gif

    http://www.mailstar.net/Malcolm-p.4.gif

    http://www.mailstar.net/Malcolm-p.5.gif

    http://www.mailstar.net/Malcolm-p.6.gif

    http://www.mailstar.net/Malcolm-p.7.gif

    http://www.mailstar.net/Malcolm-p.8.gif

    http://www.mailstar.net/Malcolm-p.9.gif

    http://www.mailstar.net/Malcolm-p.10.gif

    http://www.mailstar.net/Malcolm-p.11.gif

    http://www.mailstar.net/Malcolm-p.12.gif

    The operators of the stinky website that hosts those image files have done a service by sharing the information showing that the Malcolm Declaration does not support their case that Jews led the American charge into WWI. By the time Untermeyer and Brandeis got flipped the war drums were already beating and those in the Wilson Administration who adhered to the law on neutrality, such as William Jennings Bryan, had already been purged. The WASP banking establishment, which was heavily invested in the British war effort, was leading the charge.

    The whole idea that the bankers who led the charge into WWI were Jewish is based on thin and, at best, ambiguous evidence.

    it was more about overcoming Jewish foot-dragging on war on the side of the Russian Tsar.

    Sure! British Empire just wanted to have support of American Jewry, i.e., middle class Jews like tailors and seamstresses in Schmatta District who would change American’s foreign policy by exercising their democratic rights at polls. For some reason this ethnic group that constituted less then 2% of population of America as well as of Russia was important to British Foreign Office.

    Read More
    • Agree: jacques sheete
    • Replies: @jacques sheete

    The whole idea that the bankers who led the charge into WWI were Jewish is based on thin and, at best, ambiguous evidence.
     
    Not really, but they were not the only ones. There were goyim money men who were happy to share in any spoils as well.
    , @Thirdeye
    I suggest you read the Malcolm document below the "MORE" tag. Had you done so you would not have had such a half-baked, insubstantial reaction.
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  104. El Dato says:

    Trump faces a similar problem; in the US, the top dogs have the whole hog, while the state is in multi-trillion debt. Just three well-to-do gentlemen—Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg—have as much in their coffers as all the ordinary folk. The annual deficit is about $400 billion; the Rockefellers would not even notice if this paltry sum went amiss from their holdings, estimated at well over a trillion dollars, that is twelve zeroes after the first digit.

    I completely don’t understand. That multi-trillion debt is the money by which the votes of the common folk have been bought and the wealth of people near the State has been guaranteed . It is now in swimming pools, mansions, housing that is unused (or not) bombs exploded over foreign countries, aircraft carriers, services rendered (or not) that you needed (or not). It cannot be recovered. I can only be paid off. By voters.

    Yeah it’s like a silent nuclear war the common folk wage on themselves. Dumb eh?

    Just three well-to-do gentlemen—Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg—have as much in their coffers as all the ordinary folk.

    That is not a problem, as these people are businessmen, not nepotists, with Bill Gates arguably being on the “sharp end”/extract-the-max (Microsoft continuing on with this credo even though is long gone) and Mark peddling juvenile shite, but that’s the way business is. Fortunes can turn, unless you hook the state into supporting you with “lawlz”. At least Jeff has brough the bookshop into every house, made “cloud computing” a thing (with Microsoft and Oracle dragging behind) and fires rockets into space. That’s a Good Thing (among Bad Things that I won’t get into here, also, he should liquidate WaPo).

    The annual deficit is about $400 billion; the Rockefellers would not even notice if this paltry sum went amiss from their holdings, estimated at well over a trillion dollars.

    Dude. 50% is pretty noticeable.

    Do I repeat myself but these “holdings” are not cash or liquidable assets (were the state even in any right to seize them, this would be akin to police seizing cash found in cars on the highway for no good reason).

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  105. dobero says:
    @Sergey Krieger
    "Procrustes solved the problem of the great diversity of population height-wise, by chopping off the legs of the tall and stretching the legs of the short."

    That until he lost his head, being exactly one heard too long ;)

    Yes, indeed. MBS will have his chopped off in good time.
    Fascinating account, Mr. Shamir, thank you.

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  106. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    The British Broadcasting Corporation, a presstitute for Israel.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-12-02/how-dubious-bbc-report-gave-israel-green-light-last-nights-attack-syria

    “Israeli media and politicians are currently using BBC published satellite images as “proof” that Israel attacked an “Iranian base” in Syria last night. The BBC spread what it acknowledged to be a mere “claim” based solely on an unnamed “Western intelligence source”. Then Israel used that claim to attack Syria, after which the BBC in circular fashion justified the attack based on its own original dubious “claim”.
    Meanwhile, just about every major Israeli newspaper in today’s reporting is prominently featuring the prior BBC report as justification for the latest attack on Syria.”

    Tony Hall, a son of a bank manager and current Director-General of BBC, is a veritable “Lord Polak of BBC.”
    Another “samplng” of Hall: he has put a notorious Zionist apologist, James Purnell, in charge of strategy at the BBC. “From 2002 to 2004 James Purnell served as chairman of Labour Friends of Israel – heading a Zionist lobby group, it would seem, is a prerequisite for high office in Britain. In December 2002 he paid a week-long visit to Israel, courtesy of Labour Friends of Israel. Upon his return to Britain he embarked upon an Israeli propaganda campaign aimed at persuading the British public that black is white and white is black – i.e. that the Palestinian victims of the Israeli occupation are in fact the aggressors and that the Israeli occupiers, colonizers and oppressors of the Palestinians are, perversely, the innocent victims of the Palestinians.”

    http://www.redressonline.com/2013/02/arch-zionist-gets-top-bbc-strategy-job/

    The zoicons are thirsty for more Syrian blood and hungry for more Syrian flesh. Here comes the thoroughly opportunistic Tony Hall and converts British Broadcasting Corporation into a propaganda tool for Israel. Tony of easy morals, indeed.

    Read More
    • Replies: @jacques sheete

    The British Broadcasting Corporation, a presstitute for Israel.
     
    A look at the ownership says it all.
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  107. Renoman says:

    It’s easy to fix, the Government needs to pass two laws. 1. When you take your money out of the Country you can’t bring it back in without paying a 50% tax on it. 2. When you die you only get to keep 10 million dollars of your net worth, the balance must be sold and the Government keeps the money. This would likely eliminate the need for any income tax and allow new players on the board all the time. Lots of details to work out I know but it sure would solve a ton of problems.

    Read More
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  108. @geokat62

    Sounds too good to be true; probably fake news Way too much publicity for it to be what it it’s supposed to appear to be.
     
    Hey, JS. Not sure what you consider "too good to be true"... the torture of royal billionaires or the deal Kushner cut with MBS to sell out of the Pals for the dog owners to support his regime?

    One sure sign this isn't a positive development is the Maven's reaction:

    MBS’ actions are nothing short of pathbreaking and a new ME will emerge from these sweeping changes.
     

    Q:

    Hey, JS. Not sure what you consider “too good to be true”… the torture of royal billionaires or the deal Kushner cut with MBS to sell out of the Pals for the dog owners to support his regime?

    A:
    … the torture of royal billionaires

    Read More
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  109. @Proxenos
    'The Greeks have it even worse: they are in debt, biting the bullet of austerity, while the moneys the Greek state borrowed has lined the pockets of the rich.'
    You got this all wrong,mr Shamir! ALL Greeks,from the rich to street vendors and even the homeless,participated in the feast ,from the 80s up to 2008!Proportionately of course but everyone had their fingers in the jar of the honey! Starting with the billions given by the EU,for financing infrastructure,to bring the Greek state up to EU standards,witch was spent mostly on new housing,entertainment,luxury items and enlarging the political parties armies,to the heavy borrowing that all the governments practiced ,to maintain the huge parasitical bureaucratic state,that Greece is. Those who did not want to or could not participate in the sham,had to emigrate to other lands.

    The Greeks have it even worse: they are in debt, biting the bullet of austerity, while the moneys the Greek state borrowed has lined the pockets of the rich.’

    You got this all wrong,mr Shamir!

    Dear Προξενος,

    While you are both correct, the big money boys got the goods and were in on the deal voluntarily. On the other hand, the man in the street got a few crumbs, but never agreed to them, and most probably would never have gone into debt for them.

    A huge tragedy is that the average Greek had low amounts of personal debt and were therefore ripe for picking. Sadly, a frugal population were forced into assuming responsibility for public debt that benefited mainly the rich.

    How can you blame the average Greek for using a modern “highway to nowhere” for which (s)he’s indebted through no fault of his own?

    I simply cannot understand your position. Yannis Varoufakis wrote an excellent book (Adults in the Room) chronicling the enslavement of the Greek people who tried to correct matters by voting in politicians who promised to do right by them, but as usual they betrayed the Greeks who voted for them.

    What else could the people have done?

    The book: https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/1113208/adults-in-the-room/

    Ancient wisdom:

    Demos
    Oh! what a lot of good things! Why it’s quite full! Oh! what a huge great part of this cake he kept for himself! [1220] He had only cut off the least little tiny piece for me.

    Sausage-Seller
    But this is what he has always done. Of everything he took, he only gave you the crumbs, and kept the bulk.

    - Aristophanes, The Knights, 424 BC

    http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0034%3Acard%3D1191

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  110. This would likely eliminate the need for any income tax and allow new players on the board all the time.

    There is no need for the abominable income tax in any case.

    Here are some reasons.

    1. It’s theft.
    2. It’s unnecessary. If what the government is offering is so valuable, then why don’t they sell their “services” to those who want them, as legitimate providers do?
    3.They amount to a fine on working. If you get caught speeding you pay a fine. If you get caught getting paid, you pay a fine. Makes no sense.
    4.The government doesn’t need the money. It has other ways to finance itself and uses them all the time.The government issues worthless paper money all the time; why does it need to confiscate ours?
    5. Income taxes favor those who avoid them legally or illegally and therefore disadvantage honest folk who cannot avoid them.
    6. the money extorted is invariably used to transfer wealth from the good guys to the scum of the earth.
    7.Taxes are effectively slavery.
    8. The IRS is a tool for spying on folks and can be used to harass innocent people It has no place in a supposedly free society.

    Please note that’s only a partial list.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    For a country without natural wealth, what workable alternative do you propose?
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  111. @Anon
    The British Broadcasting Corporation, a presstitute for Israel.
    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-12-02/how-dubious-bbc-report-gave-israel-green-light-last-nights-attack-syria
    “Israeli media and politicians are currently using BBC published satellite images as "proof" that Israel attacked an "Iranian base" in Syria last night. The BBC spread what it acknowledged to be a mere "claim" based solely on an unnamed "Western intelligence source". Then Israel used that claim to attack Syria, after which the BBC in circular fashion justified the attack based on its own original dubious "claim".
    Meanwhile, just about every major Israeli newspaper in today's reporting is prominently featuring the prior BBC report as justification for the latest attack on Syria.”

    Tony Hall, a son of a bank manager and current Director-General of BBC, is a veritable “Lord Polak of BBC.”
    Another "samplng" of Hall: he has put a notorious Zionist apologist, James Purnell, in charge of strategy at the BBC. "From 2002 to 2004 James Purnell served as chairman of Labour Friends of Israel – heading a Zionist lobby group, it would seem, is a prerequisite for high office in Britain. In December 2002 he paid a week-long visit to Israel, courtesy of Labour Friends of Israel. Upon his return to Britain he embarked upon an Israeli propaganda campaign aimed at persuading the British public that black is white and white is black – i.e. that the Palestinian victims of the Israeli occupation are in fact the aggressors and that the Israeli occupiers, colonizers and oppressors of the Palestinians are, perversely, the innocent victims of the Palestinians.”
    http://www.redressonline.com/2013/02/arch-zionist-gets-top-bbc-strategy-job/

    The zoicons are thirsty for more Syrian blood and hungry for more Syrian flesh. Here comes the thoroughly opportunistic Tony Hall and converts British Broadcasting Corporation into a propaganda tool for Israel. Tony of easy morals, indeed.

    The British Broadcasting Corporation, a presstitute for Israel.

    A look at the ownership says it all.

    Read More
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  112. @utu
    The whole idea that the bankers who led the charge into WWI were Jewish is based on thin and, at best, ambiguous evidence.

    it was more about overcoming Jewish foot-dragging on war on the side of the Russian Tsar.

    Sure! British Empire just wanted to have support of American Jewry, i.e., middle class Jews like tailors and seamstresses in Schmatta District who would change American's foreign policy by exercising their democratic rights at polls. For some reason this ethnic group that constituted less then 2% of population of America as well as of Russia was important to British Foreign Office.

    The whole idea that the bankers who led the charge into WWI were Jewish is based on thin and, at best, ambiguous evidence.

    Not really, but they were not the only ones. There were goyim money men who were happy to share in any spoils as well.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Thirdeye
    J.P. Morgan was neck deep in financing the British war effort before Jewish bankers got into the game. The US got into the war to protect the investments of the old blue-blood banking establishment.
    , @utu
    The greed factor does not discriminate between Gentiles and Jews. But Brits did not write the Balfour Declaration to appeal to goyim bankers.
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  113. @alexander
    Jacques,

    I do not believe the impending and heinous debt crisis facing our nation is a reflection of our
    representatives upholding constitutional principles, but abandoning them, en mass, to engage in "wars of aggression".

    Imagine how wealthy, healthy and powerful our country would be TODAY had we not succumbed to wasting 14.5 trillion dollars of our solvency on our stupid , vapid, criminal wars abroad.

    Can you imagine how valuable the dollar would be today....how sought after our bonds would be ,around the world, if our deficit spending, since 9-11, was only 50 billion dollars a year , not 875 billion ?

    Look at the numbers, Jacques,

    In 2000,our National Debt was 5.6 trillion and our GDP was 9.9 trillion. ( a decent DEBT / GDP ratio of almost 1 to 2.)

    Today, our National Debt is ( a mind numbing) 20.5 trillion and our GDP is only 19.4 trillion.( this is a NEGATIVE DEBT/GDP ratio of 1 to .96)

    This is a national CATASTROPHE...a train wreck of monstrous criminal OVERSPENDING the likes of which has never been seen before on the face of the earth !

    Assuming that we kept our OVERSPENDING to a modest 50 billion per year since 2000, this would have added only 850 billion to our national debt for the same , 17 year,time period.

    Look at how GOLDEN our nation would be today had we not succumbed to committing the supreme crime of "war of aggression".

    We would have a National Debt of only 6.45 trillion and a GDP of 19.4...a STELLAR "five star"DEBT/GDP ratio of 1 to 3....Fantastic !

    FANTASTIC !

    Our credit worthiness would be GOLDEN
    Our bonds would be GOLDEN
    Our currency would be GOLDEN,

    We would be the greatest nation on earth, a powerhouse of solvency and wealth, with massive reserves available to ignite growth in every quarter of industries.

    But we were lied into wars of aggression, and now we are bankrupt.

    A tragic end to a very special and wonderful nation with all the promise in the world.

    But we were lied into wars of aggression, and now we are bankrupt.

    Well yes. But that should come as no surprise since the constitution that everyone seems so enamored of was just another pious fraud. Full of promises that turned out to be lies.

    A tragic end to a very special and wonderful nation with all the promise in the world.

    It was always just a romantic dream meant to deceive us piss ants while our pockets were picked clean by the usual suspects.

    The constitution was never anything serious. Nobody in the ruling classes ever intended to be limited by it.

    The anti-Federalists were 99% correct except for a few insignificant predictions.

    Read More
    • Agree: Alden
    • Replies: @alexander
    Jacques,

    I am not sure how the "stewards" of our nation, having defrauded us into successive war(s) of aggression and utterly bankrupting our country in the process, is a reflection of our constitution's (alleged) "pious fraudulence".

    If anything, it's a reflection of our leaders " criminal fraudulence", and "willingness to deceive", Jacques, not the "constitution's".

    Whereas our constitution explicates, with exacting certitude, that "wars of aggression" are the supreme crimes of the land.

    Its Murder One on a "mass scale".

    To see it otherwise is finding oneself a victim of pious fraud, more than anything else.

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  114. @Alfred
    The book "Hidden History: The Secret Origins of the First World War." by Gerry Docherty and Jim MacGregor

    http://amzn.com/1780576307

    has numerous examples of how British Jewish bankers controlled the script. The crown prince, Edward, was deeply in debt to them. His mother, queen Victoria, tried to stop him womanising by limiting his pocket-money. A whole series of British senior politicians - e.g. Winston Churchill and his father Randolph Churchill - were beholden to them.

    They planned, together with the British elite, to weaken Germany by forcing a war in which France and Russia would make the most effort. The French were the traditional enemies of England and in no time at all that was changed. The Germans became the enemy. The media manipulated the public - just like today with all these attempts to demonise Putin and the Russians.

    The media manipulated the public – just like today with all these attempts to demonise Putin and the Russians.

    Did they ever! Good comment.

    Read More
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  115. Alden says:

    Very informative,interesting comments about this article

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  116. Thirdeye says:
    @utu
    The whole idea that the bankers who led the charge into WWI were Jewish is based on thin and, at best, ambiguous evidence.

    it was more about overcoming Jewish foot-dragging on war on the side of the Russian Tsar.

    Sure! British Empire just wanted to have support of American Jewry, i.e., middle class Jews like tailors and seamstresses in Schmatta District who would change American's foreign policy by exercising their democratic rights at polls. For some reason this ethnic group that constituted less then 2% of population of America as well as of Russia was important to British Foreign Office.

    I suggest you read the Malcolm document below the “MORE” tag. Had you done so you would not have had such a half-baked, insubstantial reaction.

    Read More
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  117. Thirdeye says:
    @jacques sheete

    The whole idea that the bankers who led the charge into WWI were Jewish is based on thin and, at best, ambiguous evidence.
     
    Not really, but they were not the only ones. There were goyim money men who were happy to share in any spoils as well.

    J.P. Morgan was neck deep in financing the British war effort before Jewish bankers got into the game. The US got into the war to protect the investments of the old blue-blood banking establishment.

    Read More
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  118. utu says:
    @jacques sheete

    The whole idea that the bankers who led the charge into WWI were Jewish is based on thin and, at best, ambiguous evidence.
     
    Not really, but they were not the only ones. There were goyim money men who were happy to share in any spoils as well.

    The greed factor does not discriminate between Gentiles and Jews. But Brits did not write the Balfour Declaration to appeal to goyim bankers.

    Read More
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  119. Thirdeye says:
    @Alfred
    The book "Hidden History: The Secret Origins of the First World War." by Gerry Docherty and Jim MacGregor

    http://amzn.com/1780576307

    has numerous examples of how British Jewish bankers controlled the script. The crown prince, Edward, was deeply in debt to them. His mother, queen Victoria, tried to stop him womanising by limiting his pocket-money. A whole series of British senior politicians - e.g. Winston Churchill and his father Randolph Churchill - were beholden to them.

    They planned, together with the British elite, to weaken Germany by forcing a war in which France and Russia would make the most effort. The French were the traditional enemies of England and in no time at all that was changed. The Germans became the enemy. The media manipulated the public - just like today with all these attempts to demonise Putin and the Russians.

    The British imperialists didn’t need any convincing that they wanted to stop the rise of Germany. The Rothschilds weren’t particular about whether their profits came from Britain or Germany. It was the Rothschilds who were brought in line with British imperial interests, not the other way around.

    The Franco-Russian alliance made the Brits uneasy. They did not want a war that would result in an increase in Russian power. They regarded taking out Germany as an interruption of their Great Game against Russia and unfinished business with Russia would again come to the top of the agenda. The Gallipoli campaign was about keeping Russia from gaining control of the Bosporus in the event that Russia defeated Turkey.

    There is some credence to the idea that the Brits wanted Germany and Russia to beat each other’s brains out, then do a clean-up with France. That was how they approached WWII in its early months, but Germany buggered the strategy by rolling over France first.

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  120. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @jacques sheete

    This would likely eliminate the need for any income tax and allow new players on the board all the time.
     
    There is no need for the abominable income tax in any case.

    Here are some reasons.

    1. It's theft.
    2. It's unnecessary. If what the government is offering is so valuable, then why don't they sell their "services" to those who want them, as legitimate providers do?
    3.They amount to a fine on working. If you get caught speeding you pay a fine. If you get caught getting paid, you pay a fine. Makes no sense.
    4.The government doesn't need the money. It has other ways to finance itself and uses them all the time.The government issues worthless paper money all the time; why does it need to confiscate ours?
    5. Income taxes favor those who avoid them legally or illegally and therefore disadvantage honest folk who cannot avoid them.
    6. the money extorted is invariably used to transfer wealth from the good guys to the scum of the earth.
    7.Taxes are effectively slavery.
    8. The IRS is a tool for spying on folks and can be used to harass innocent people It has no place in a supposedly free society.

    Please note that's only a partial list.

    For a country without natural wealth, what workable alternative do you propose?

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  121. Read More
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  122. Art says:

    An Aside:

    The Curious Case of Jared Kushner and the Israel Lobby

    Kushner crossed the line from using his First Amendment right to speak freely about government policy into subverting official US foreign policy in favour of Israel.

    By Richard Silverstein

    …. …. ….

    But including a Logan Act violation would be the equivalent of mood music, setting the tone for the overall indictment. In other words, we’re talking about high crimes and misdemeanors here, and not run-of-the-mill charges.

    Much like a spy who betrays his country, Kushner acted against the best interest of the United States. That’s certainly an impeachable offence when and if it comes round to Trump himself.

    What Kushner did is to violate a cardinal rule of American life: he showed dual loyalty. This is a canard that anti-Semites used to throw around against Jews. But today, given the eagle-clawed grip the Israel lobby holds over aspects of American politics, dual loyalty is once again a claim raised (and this time validly) against American Jews like Kushner, who put the interests of Israel above those of their native country

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/48329.htm

    This was done while Obama was still president — this is not good.

    This is Trump/Kushner colluding with Israel against the sitting president – Obama.

    Will Mueller go there? Me thinks not!

    Think Peace — Art

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  123. Read More
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  124. alexander says:
    @jacques sheete

    But we were lied into wars of aggression, and now we are bankrupt.

     

    Well yes. But that should come as no surprise since the constitution that everyone seems so enamored of was just another pious fraud. Full of promises that turned out to be lies.

    A tragic end to a very special and wonderful nation with all the promise in the world.
     
    It was always just a romantic dream meant to deceive us piss ants while our pockets were picked clean by the usual suspects.

    The constitution was never anything serious. Nobody in the ruling classes ever intended to be limited by it.

    The anti-Federalists were 99% correct except for a few insignificant predictions.

    Jacques,

    I am not sure how the “stewards” of our nation, having defrauded us into successive war(s) of aggression and utterly bankrupting our country in the process, is a reflection of our constitution’s (alleged) “pious fraudulence”.

    If anything, it’s a reflection of our leaders ” criminal fraudulence”, and “willingness to deceive”, Jacques, not the “constitution’s”.

    Whereas our constitution explicates, with exacting certitude, that “wars of aggression” are the supreme crimes of the land.

    Its Murder One on a “mass scale”.

    To see it otherwise is finding oneself a victim of pious fraud, more than anything else.

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  125. alexander says:
    @Proxenos
    'The Greeks have it even worse: they are in debt, biting the bullet of austerity, while the moneys the Greek state borrowed has lined the pockets of the rich.'
    You got this all wrong,mr Shamir! ALL Greeks,from the rich to street vendors and even the homeless,participated in the feast ,from the 80s up to 2008!Proportionately of course but everyone had their fingers in the jar of the honey! Starting with the billions given by the EU,for financing infrastructure,to bring the Greek state up to EU standards,witch was spent mostly on new housing,entertainment,luxury items and enlarging the political parties armies,to the heavy borrowing that all the governments practiced ,to maintain the huge parasitical bureaucratic state,that Greece is. Those who did not want to or could not participate in the sham,had to emigrate to other lands.

    In terms of sorry states of affairs in overspending , comparing the Greek debt to the US Debt is like comparing a puddle to an ocean.

    The two main differences are 1) Greece, having joined the EU, is no longer able to print its own currency and monetize its debt. 2) Greece has relatively limited assets to collateralize its debt, compared to the US which (thank God) has close to 200 trillion in collective assets.

    But a look at the real numbers tells a sorrier tale for US citizens than it does for Greek citizens, that’s for sure.

    There are about 11 million Greeks and their current national debt is @ 389 billion dollars.

    This amounts to @ $35 ,000 per citizen.

    The US, on the other hand, has about 325 million citizens and its current national debt is 20.5 TRILLION dollars.

    This amounts to @ $ 63,000 per US Citizen,

    Almost DOUBLE the debt “per person” of Greece.

    So the heinous overspending and criminal pilfering by our elites in Washington(over the last 17 years) has doubled the depth of the hole the good ole Us taxpayer is in……when compared to its counterparts in Greece.

    But you will never hear this sad fact on our “bogus” evening news.

    They cannot continue to pilfer your trillions if you are informed they are doing it…so its not talked about.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Miro23

    There are about 11 million Greeks and their current national debt is @ 389 billion dollars.
    This amounts to @ $35 ,000 per citizen.

    The US, on the other hand, has about 325 million citizens and its current national debt is 20.5 TRILLION dollars.
    This amounts to @ $ 63,000 per US Citizen,

    Almost DOUBLE the debt “per person” of Greece.
     

    Like you say, it helps if you can print your own currency, and it's even better if your currency is the world's reserve currency (others have to buy and hold it to trade - and they buy it to keep their currency values down). The dollar is artificially supported - at least for a while.

    Also , a recent estimate put the debt attributable to post 9/11 ME wars at $ 5.6 trillion, which accounts for more than a quarter of the current national debt per US citizen ( the ME "War Tax" is then estimated at $ 17.000 per person, or more like $ 23.000 per taxpayer).

    So add on personal debts, and it's a legitimate question how it's all going to be repaid.

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  126. Miro23 says:
    @alexander
    In terms of sorry states of affairs in overspending , comparing the Greek debt to the US Debt is like comparing a puddle to an ocean.

    The two main differences are 1) Greece, having joined the EU, is no longer able to print its own currency and monetize its debt. 2) Greece has relatively limited assets to collateralize its debt, compared to the US which (thank God) has close to 200 trillion in collective assets.

    But a look at the real numbers tells a sorrier tale for US citizens than it does for Greek citizens, that's for sure.

    There are about 11 million Greeks and their current national debt is @ 389 billion dollars.

    This amounts to @ $35 ,000 per citizen.

    The US, on the other hand, has about 325 million citizens and its current national debt is 20.5 TRILLION dollars.

    This amounts to @ $ 63,000 per US Citizen,

    Almost DOUBLE the debt "per person" of Greece.

    So the heinous overspending and criminal pilfering by our elites in Washington(over the last 17 years) has doubled the depth of the hole the good ole Us taxpayer is in......when compared to its counterparts in Greece.

    But you will never hear this sad fact on our "bogus" evening news.

    They cannot continue to pilfer your trillions if you are informed they are doing it...so its not talked about.

    There are about 11 million Greeks and their current national debt is @ 389 billion dollars.
    This amounts to @ $35 ,000 per citizen.

    The US, on the other hand, has about 325 million citizens and its current national debt is 20.5 TRILLION dollars.
    This amounts to @ $ 63,000 per US Citizen,

    Almost DOUBLE the debt “per person” of Greece.

    Like you say, it helps if you can print your own currency, and it’s even better if your currency is the world’s reserve currency (others have to buy and hold it to trade – and they buy it to keep their currency values down). The dollar is artificially supported – at least for a while.

    Also , a recent estimate put the debt attributable to post 9/11 ME wars at $ 5.6 trillion, which accounts for more than a quarter of the current national debt per US citizen ( the ME “War Tax” is then estimated at $ 17.000 per person, or more like $ 23.000 per taxpayer).

    So add on personal debts, and it’s a legitimate question how it’s all going to be repaid.

    Read More
    • Replies: @alexander
    Hi Miro,

    The USA has amassed @14.8 trillion dollars in debt since 9-11.

    Adding this heinous "overspending" to the ( relatively modest) National Debt at the time of @ 5.6 trillion gives us our current debt crisis of @20.4-20.5 trillion.

    Nearly all these trillions in overspending went to our stupid wars abroad , our war on terror at home , and our trillion dollar big bank bailout.

    Not one penny went to us.

    But how you choose to "breakout" the 14.8 trillion...i.e. how much went to war profits, terror profits and how much went to the big banks ....is anyone 's guess......because its all opaque.

    I believe this " opacity" is quite deliberate.

    There have been no audits anywhere, (especially the Pentagon).,,,,for fifteen years....and to this day not one individual has come forward with the exact number it has cost the taxpayer for the "subprime fiasco"and its massive bailout..

    But do not doubt that it is the greatest 17 year assault on the solvency of our nation... in history.

    Astonishingly, there has been zero accountability for anything.

    ZERO.
    , @alexander
    For the record, Miro,

    Our National Debt has nothing to do with "personal debts".

    The National Debt is the cumulative amount of overspending our "government" is guilty of, nothing more.

    The idea that even one taxpayer dollar should be forfeit in paying for criminal "wars of aggression" abroad, or"banking fraud" at home , or any criminal activities of any kind whatsoever, is so outrageous it defies the human imagination..

    It truly does.

    We, as a nation (as a citizenry), have been defrauded out of tens of trillions of dollars by our representatives, Miro.

    TENS OF TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS.

    Unbelievable.

    Absolutely unbelievable!

    It is scary.
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  127. alexander says:
    @Miro23

    There are about 11 million Greeks and their current national debt is @ 389 billion dollars.
    This amounts to @ $35 ,000 per citizen.

    The US, on the other hand, has about 325 million citizens and its current national debt is 20.5 TRILLION dollars.
    This amounts to @ $ 63,000 per US Citizen,

    Almost DOUBLE the debt “per person” of Greece.
     

    Like you say, it helps if you can print your own currency, and it's even better if your currency is the world's reserve currency (others have to buy and hold it to trade - and they buy it to keep their currency values down). The dollar is artificially supported - at least for a while.

    Also , a recent estimate put the debt attributable to post 9/11 ME wars at $ 5.6 trillion, which accounts for more than a quarter of the current national debt per US citizen ( the ME "War Tax" is then estimated at $ 17.000 per person, or more like $ 23.000 per taxpayer).

    So add on personal debts, and it's a legitimate question how it's all going to be repaid.

    Hi Miro,

    The USA has amassed @14.8 trillion dollars in debt since 9-11.

    Adding this heinous “overspending” to the ( relatively modest) National Debt at the time of @ 5.6 trillion gives us our current debt crisis of @20.4-20.5 trillion.

    Nearly all these trillions in overspending went to our stupid wars abroad , our war on terror at home , and our trillion dollar big bank bailout.

    Not one penny went to us.

    But how you choose to “breakout” the 14.8 trillion…i.e. how much went to war profits, terror profits and how much went to the big banks ….is anyone ‘s guess……because its all opaque.

    I believe this ” opacity” is quite deliberate.

    There have been no audits anywhere, (especially the Pentagon).,,,,for fifteen years….and to this day not one individual has come forward with the exact number it has cost the taxpayer for the “subprime fiasco”and its massive bailout..

    But do not doubt that it is the greatest 17 year assault on the solvency of our nation… in history.

    Astonishingly, there has been zero accountability for anything.

    ZERO.

    Read More
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  128. TWS says:
    @renfro
    So far among the MBS abducted Princes the only thing one has signed off on as his corruption is........using his position to have the Saudi guard buy equipment from his own company.

    LOL....the Princes are petty amateurs when it comes to corruption....they should takes lessons from the big time experts , the US political and Wall Street elite.

    You think they get anything for civil forfeiture like the Saudis are squeezing? Good luck. We’d need to go where the money is and it ain’t the odd dealer or tax avoider.

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  129. TWS says:
    @Sherman
    You're correct. You don't need brains to make a lot of money. Some of the wealthiest people I know are surprisingly vapid - both Jews and non-Jews.

    I wish my teachers would have taught me this when I was a kid and studious.

    That said, Shamir should have also listed Brin and Page from Google in his list of gazillionaires.

    I've also been loading up on Google (er, excuse me, Alphabet).

    Doing fantastic with this stock too (actually divided into two classes of stock).

    I now have more money to support my favorite Jewish and Israeli causes!

    Brilliant trolling 10/10!

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  130. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @renfro

    p.s. Hmm’ — Wonder what business dealings Jared has with MBS?
     
    Wonder no more...the Kushners are in deep dodo financially. Jared has been all over the world begging money for the 666 Fifth Ave white elephant he bought that is about to be foreclosed on in a few months unless he gets a big loan. He's and his daddy are desperate and Jared has always been a daddy's boy to his jailbird father so maybe Jared worked a deal with the Clown Prince. If you read this article you will understand how desperate Jared is---the question is will Trump help him out by trading off some US action or policy to foreign investor to pull Jared's nuts out of the fire --or poor house.


    https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2017-kushners-china-deal-flop-was-part-of-much-bigger-hunt-for-cash/

    Kushners’ China Deal Flop Was Part of Much Bigger Hunt for Cash

    By David Kocieniewski and Caleb Melby
    August 31, 2017

    Jared Kushner, Donald Trump’s son-in-law and top adviser, wakes up each morning to a growing problem that will not go away. His family’s real estate business, Kushner Cos., owes hundreds of millions of dollars on a 41-story office building on Fifth Avenue. It has failed to secure foreign investors, despite an extensive search, and its resources are more limited than generally understood. As a result, the company faces significant challenges.

    Over the past two years, executives and family members have sought substantial overseas investment from previously undisclosed places: South Korea’s sovereign-wealth fund, France’s richest man, Israeli banks and insurance companies, and exploratory talks with a Saudi developer, according to former and current executives. These were in addition to previously reported attempts to raise money in China and Qatar.

    The family, once one of the largest landlords on the East Coast, sold thousands of apartments to finance its purchase of the tower in 2007 and has borrowed extensively for other purchases. They are walking away from a Brooklyn hotel once considered central to their plans for an office hub. From other properties, they are extracting cash, including tens of millions in borrowed funds from the recently acquired former New York Times building. What’s more, their partner in the Fifth Avenue building, Vornado Realty Trust, headed by Steve Roth, has stood aside, allowing the Kushners to pursue financing on their own.

    Kushner Cos. says it will prevail. Laurent Morali, the president, said the company has a variety of contingency plans for the building and its broader portfolio will allow it to sustain any setback. He said he is encouraged by the interest of several potential investors, but declined to name them.
    “Reports that portray it as a distressed situation are just not accurate for the building or for the company,” Morali said in an interview on the 15th floor of the building, 666 Fifth Avenue.
    But there are challenges all around. The mortgage on their tower is due in 18 months. This has led to concerns that Kushner could use—or has perhaps already used—his official position to prop up the family business despite having divested to close relatives his ownership in many projects to conform with government ethics requirements. Federal investigators are examining Kushner’s finances and business dealings, along with those of other Trump associates, as they probe possible collusion between the Kremlin and the Trump campaign. Kushner has already testified twice before closed congressional committees and denies mixing family business with his official role.
    This article, which describes new details of the company’s troubled finances and its overseas fundraising efforts, is based on a review of thousands of pages of financial documents and interviews with more than two dozen executives, business partners, real estate agents, deal participants and analysts. They spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss private deals. Some feared legal reprisals or other retaliation from one of the country’s most powerful families.

    It was 2006—the height of the real-estate market boom—when Kushner Cos. agreed to buy 666 Fifth Avenue for $1.8 billion, then a record for a Manhattan building. All of it was borrowed except for $50 million. The company still holds half of a $1.2 billion mortgage, on which it hasn’t paid a cent. The full amount is due in February 2019.
    The strain has become increasingly evident across their holdings. One person familiar with the company’s finances describes the tower, with its low ceilings and outdated floor plan, as the Jenga puzzle piece that could set the empire teetering.

    The family’s idea of how to salvage its investment requires razing the building to the ground and constructing an 80-story tower with greatly expanded retail areas and high-end condominiums. No short- or medium-term return can be expected from such an aggressive approach. Even a return over the long run would be speculative, though Morali describes the plan as “ambitious and creative.” That narrows the pool of investors to those interested in something other than profit. Real estate experts say this almost certainly precludes U.S. companies. More likely: a foreign firm looking to get capital out of its country or seeking a trophy Manhattan property.
    Before Trump began his rise to the presidency and the 36-year-old Kushner became his senior adviser, 666 Fifth Avenue struggled to attract serious offers. Meetings the Kushners requested were often rejected. After Trump’s nomination, billions of dollars in Asian and Middle Eastern money came under discussion. Two potential deals that made it to advanced stages, with China’sAnbang Insurance Group and a top Qatari sheikh, fell apart.

    The new status meant the Kushners’ calls were more readily answered—but they came with additional scrutiny, not only of the Kushners but also of the investors. Since January, the company has ceased entering into business relationships with sovereign entities, Morali said. Federal investigators want to know if the Fifth Avenue building’s finances came up in a post-election meeting Kushner had with the head of Russia’s state-controlled development bank.
    The Kushners have reason to look far afield. Even after selling big sections of 666 Fifth in 2011, they have increased their own vulnerability by borrowing more money for other deals, people close to the company say. After a refinancing, the deed to 666 Fifth sits in an escrow account, ready to be seized by lenders in a default, an action indicating their trust has grown thin. The mortgage will become even more of a burden after a scheduled jump in interest rates in December. Under some dire circumstances, guarantees in the refinancing agreement could even give lenders the ability to go after the family’s other assets—many of which are also underpinned by debt.
    Towering Debt
    Debt payments have almost always eclipsed net income at 666 Fifth Avenue. A two-year respite followed a hard-fought loan refinancing deal.

    While 666 Fifth Avenue has been a drain, Kushner Cos. has continued to make big moves across New York City, and company officials say those assets insulate the business. It has expanded its footprint by $1 billion, including the Times building and properties formerly owned by the Jehovah’s Witnesses, according to data firm Real Capital Analytics. Morali, sitting in a conference room below a painting of the company’s founders—Jared Kushner’s grandparents—says even a worst-case scenario at 666 Fifth would do minor damage to the company, because “it’s just one small piece of the portfolio.”
    But after selling 18,000 mid-Atlantic apartments in 2007, the Kushners only partially own a substantial number of the company’s assets. In many cases, Kushner Cos. has partnered with well-capitalized firms that want to invest in real estate and seek out experienced locals for deals. These include the Israeli firm Gaia Investment Corp. as well as Oaktree Capital Management, the Los Angeles-based asset manager, and Stonehage Fleming, a London firm that invests money on behalf of 250 wealthy families primarily from Europe, the Middle East, and Africa.
    As a privately held business, Kushners Cos. doesn’t generally have to disclose how ownership breaks down between it and its partners, and Morali declined to provide details. But there are clues. One Brooklyn development site purchased in 2014 for about $75 million and heralded by the real estate press as “Jared Kushner’s big Gowanus project”—so-named for the canal it abuts—is in fact barely owned by the Kushners at all. SL Green Realty Corp., their partner in the endeavor, owns 95 percent of it, according to a regulatory filing. The remaining 5 percent is split between the Kushners, and LIVWRK, another developer. Elsewhere in Brooklyn, where the Kushners partnered with RFR Realty to purchase buildings owned by the Jehovah’s Witnesses, they own about half of the project’s equity.
    It’s here where the Kushners have scaled back. Among the six buildings the partnership purchased for $375 million in 2013 is a 30-story hotel at 90 Sands Street scheduled to be turned over to the Kushner group later this year. Kushner Cos. is now exiting the partnership and selling its stake to RFR, Morali said. Leaving the property means narrowing its role in a planned tech-centric Brooklyn office hub—its most ambitious project since purchasing 666 Fifth.
    The Kushners are also extracting cash from properties in which they do own significant stakes. Six floors of the former New York Times building, which they purchased for $295 million in 2015, now have $370 million of debt against them, loan documents show. Of that amount, at least $59 million was used to return cash to the Kushners.
    Across the Hudson River at Trump Bay Street, a luxury residential building in Jersey City, the family plans to take out $50 million, Bloomberg previously reported. Efforts over the summer to obtain a $250 million mortgage for the property struggled in the face of controversy around their use of an investment-for-visa program. Now the company has found a lender, Morali says, declining to name the firm.
    Central to the fate of 666 Fifth yet noticeably absent from the gyrations around it, is Steve Roth, Vornado’s chairman and chief executive officer, whose firm owns almost half the building’s offices and most of its stores following a 2011 refinancing. When an analyst asked Roth about 666 Fifth in an August earnings call, he demurred, saying the issue was being debated. Two spokesmen for Roth declined to comment for this article.
    In 2014, at a meeting in his 57th Street headquarters with Jared Kushner and his father, Charles Kushner, as well as others wrestling with how to save the investment, Roth argued against the Kushners’ extravagant renovation plans, saying, “It would be worth a lot more if it was just dirt,” according to two people who were there.
    Roth is famous for his unsentimental patience. In an April letter to investors concerning a recent dip in demand for retail property, he described an opportunity to “feed on the carnage” for those with ample capital at their disposal—a chance to profit from the overleveraged and underprepared.
    That’s what Roth saw when his firm came to Kushner’s rescue in 2011, according to three people familiar with his thinking at the time. For $80 million and the assumption of half the debt, Vornado put itself in the best position to become 666 Fifth’s sole owner in the event of a restructuring or worse.
    This may help to explain why Vornado has allowed Kushner Cos. to shoulder the burden of hunting for potential partners and lenders, according to four people. Another reason: Roth’s concern about his own legacy. Now in his mid-70s, having exited retirement only after his handpicked successor left Vornado, he has little desire to gamble his career on a family and a property with uncertain futures, the people said.
    Morali said Vornado and Kushner Cos. are equal partners in the tower and will jointly decide its fate.

    Robert Parry disclosed few years back in consortiumnews an evolving much deeper relationship between Saudi and Israel which was reinforced with 14 billions dollars worth of bribery. It worked. Saudi became ‘ moderate’ Islam . Yemen slaughtering disappeared from awareness. Internal torture kept on increasing in size . Saudi got a reprieve and in exchange Saudi had to pony up money,dispose the Palestnnian and assume the public position against Iran ,wear the visible face of anti Iran hatred ,talk the scripted language against Iran and accept the new narrative that it’s not Israel but Saudi who is forcing American to act against Iran. A failure( fight against Iran ) will be worse than 911 and will be portrayed same way . Suddenly the media which now calls Saudi a moderate- thanks to the bribes by Saudi – will start calling for destruction of Saudi for misguiding and for persuading / or bribing America to war . Media will do it through the active guidance a of people like – Wulfowitz ,Shulsky,Scooter, Feith,Abrams,Perle, Wrumser, Kagan, Krauthammer, Kristol , Lewis , Pofohoretz .
    !! Sorry!! They have different names now . Israel wins again. It has hurt Iran and has exposed Saudi to more capitulation and manipulation. Very soon another paen will be penned by Tom Friedman for Saudi’s daring attempt to reinterpret Koran and allow Israeli presence in Saudi administration,cabinet military,intelligence,and commerce . European kings and queens and democratic leaders were brought to heel by Jews moneybags in 18,19,and 20 th centuries .

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  131. alexander says:
    @Miro23

    There are about 11 million Greeks and their current national debt is @ 389 billion dollars.
    This amounts to @ $35 ,000 per citizen.

    The US, on the other hand, has about 325 million citizens and its current national debt is 20.5 TRILLION dollars.
    This amounts to @ $ 63,000 per US Citizen,

    Almost DOUBLE the debt “per person” of Greece.
     

    Like you say, it helps if you can print your own currency, and it's even better if your currency is the world's reserve currency (others have to buy and hold it to trade - and they buy it to keep their currency values down). The dollar is artificially supported - at least for a while.

    Also , a recent estimate put the debt attributable to post 9/11 ME wars at $ 5.6 trillion, which accounts for more than a quarter of the current national debt per US citizen ( the ME "War Tax" is then estimated at $ 17.000 per person, or more like $ 23.000 per taxpayer).

    So add on personal debts, and it's a legitimate question how it's all going to be repaid.

    For the record, Miro,

    Our National Debt has nothing to do with “personal debts”.

    The National Debt is the cumulative amount of overspending our “government” is guilty of, nothing more.

    The idea that even one taxpayer dollar should be forfeit in paying for criminal “wars of aggression” abroad, or”banking fraud” at home , or any criminal activities of any kind whatsoever, is so outrageous it defies the human imagination..

    It truly does.

    We, as a nation (as a citizenry), have been defrauded out of tens of trillions of dollars by our representatives, Miro.

    TENS OF TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS.

    Unbelievable.

    Absolutely unbelievable!

    It is scary.

    Read More
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  132. Read More
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