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Daring Narendra Modi, the Prime Minister of India, has killed a sacred cow, called Article 370 of the Constitution, enshrining the autonomy of Kashmir. The consequences could be dire, including the fourth India-Pakistan war, but not necessarily so. It could also be a successful scheme. Apparently, Narendra Modi had been encouraged by his success in recent elections, by his decent relations with the three powerful men of our age, Trump, Putin and Netanyahu; and by the rearmament and modernisation of India’s armed forces. So he decided to go for the root of the age-long Kashmir problem, instead of treating its symptoms, and terminate the special status altogether, giving the people of Kashmir the same rights as all Indian citizens have, not more, neither less.

Kashmir, a chain of pleasant green mountain valleys, was the most cherished patrimony of the Great Mughals, who embellished it with palaces and gardens. Here the Muslims and Hindus have lived together in peace and harmony. A blessed country, if there ever was one, Kashmir could flourish if this peaceful coexistence had survived. Alas, it did not. Frequent riots, separatism and imported Islamic extremism have made life difficult for everybody.

The Hindus were forced to leave Kashmir; many Muslims had left too, rather than having to serve the firebrand insurgents. Their empty, ruined or burned down houses still stick out in Srinagar and elsewhere, though many of the properties were sold for a song during the insurgency.

Ceaseless meddling of Pakistan and political Islamists who refused to accept the results of the Partition is the main reason why Kashmir is in trouble. The majority of Kashmiris are Muslims and were Muslims in 1947, but they did not want to join the newly formed Pakistan. The Islamist textbooks claim that the Hindu Maharaja of Kashmir decided to accede to India against the wishes of the population; however this is propaganda, not a fact. The people of Kashmir were not very fervent Muslims; the idea of living separately in a purely Muslim state did not appeal to them. Ethnically and linguistically they are related to local Hindus, they share the same family names and the ancestry. They wanted to be independent, but facing Pakistani invasion, they preferred to join pluralist India.

There is a big difference between the Muslims who are native converts, and those who came to a foreign land as Muslim invaders. The first kind is flexible and absorbable; the second kind is hard and fervent.

The Muslims of Indian Kashmir are mainly of the first kind; the Muslims of the Western Kashmir are mainly of the second kind. They are descendants of the invaders who came from Afghanistan. They were enthusiastic about Pakistan, and joined it. Now they live in Azad Kashmir, the Pakistani part of the old princely state.

The Partition was bad, but bearable. It followed some logic. But Pakistan was not satisfied with the results of the war: their raison d’être was to gather all the Muslims of the subcontinent in one purely Muslim state.

That’s a common problem of states based on a principle instead of ad hoc tradition. They want to “liberate” other lands that fit their idea. Thus, the young US had tried to “liberate” Canada from the British colonial rule in 1812; independent Chechnya had tried to “liberate” neighbouring Dagestan in 1999; Russians had tried to “liberate” Slavs of the Balkans from the Ottoman rule. Eventually, they all had to adjust their sights or perish.

Pakistan should also get used to it and back off its claim for all the Muslims of former British India. They clearly and demonstrably failed: two hundred million Muslims live in India; one hundred sixty million live in Bangladesh, and only one hundred eighty million in Pakistan. But they still keep trying to get Kashmir, as this cause is used to mobilise unhappy dwellers of Pakistan. Their population grew five-fold since the Partition, and this fast growth smothered their chances to make a decent living. That’s why they need a cause to rally people around.

Cancellation of the special status makes a lot of sense. Since the Partition, the religious fanatics and ethno-nationalists of the hardest kind came to the top and stayed there. A few prominent local families treated the state as their fief. A lot of nepotism, no democracy, no social lifts. The autonomy miserably failed to satisfy the people. Opening the state up could improve the Kashmiris’ lot.

The main objection to Modi’s move had been demographic, something that the US whites, and the Europeans can understand and sympathise with. Article 370 forbade non-Kashmiris from buying houses or lands and settling in Kashmir. With the cancellation of 370, Indians might migrate into Kashmir, and they might replace the Muslims, said Pakistan’s Prime Minister Imran Khan. “The removal of special status would allow India to change the demographic make-up of the Muslim-majority state.”

That’s awful! Wait! Isn’t it the dreadful Great Replacement Theory, the one that had “inspired alt-right killers the world over”, in words of a nice Jewish girl, Rosa Schwartzburg, an MA in Gender Studies and an expert on white supremacist conspiracy theories? Or it is only American whites and Europeans who are not allowed to dread the change of the demographic make-up?

It seems, the Islamists object to the changes of the demographic make-up when the Muslims are in majority, and consider such changes desirable when they are in minority. Kashmir is the place where this asymmetric approach is most obvious.

It is almost forgotten that the Muslim predominance in Indian Kashmir had been achieved by expulsion of the native non-Muslims, the Kashmiri Pandits, an expulsion as violent and unjustifiable as Palestinian Nakba.

ORDER IT NOW

At first, there was a Hindu-Muslim conflagration that resulted in the Partition. Still, the Hindu refugees quickly came back to the Valley after the battles were over. Peace had returned, but not for long. The American meddling in Afghanistan in 1970s-80s had undermined Kashmir’s stability. Zbigniew Brzezinski, Jimmy Carter’s own John Bolton, advised his well-meaning but inept president to encourage the Islamist insurgency in order to embroil the Russians in the fire of guerrilla war in neighbouring Afghanistan. Pakistan was the main springboard of the war: the mujahidin of Osama bin Laden’s ilk attacked the Russians and the then Kabul government from their safe bases in Pakistan. After slaughtering shameless female teachers and social workers, the Islamic jihadis would return to Pakistan, under protection of the ISI. Sparks of the insurgency ignited a fire in Kashmir, and soon the villages and towns were engulfed by fratricidal struggle.

As the Russians withdrew from Afghanistan, and the US Islamist allies took over and slaughtered those who behaved un-Islamic way. After the takeover, they took the torch of Jihad to Indian Kashmir.

“The events of 19 January 1990 were particularly vicious. On that day, mosques issued declarations that the Kashmiri Pandits were Kaffirs and that their males had to leave Kashmir, convert to Islam or be killed. Those who chose to depart were told to leave their women behind”, says Wikipedia, quoting an Indian source. That was just a conclusive strike for the long campaign of ethnic cleansing in Indian Kashmir, where non-Muslims were expelled by the Islamists. It happened under Congress rule, which probably explains why the party of Nehru and Gandhi had been voted out so definitely.

Since then, moderate or lapsed Muslims had been increasingly moving elsewhere, within India and abroad, while Kashmir, protected by 370, and heavily influenced by neighbouring Pakistan, had been ruled by their traditional established seven families and the Muslim priests (ulema). Autonomy didn’t led to democracy, other way around.

It is very annoying that some Kashmir partisans claim that Kashmir case is similar to that of Palestine. Here is occupation, they say, and there is occupation. There is absolutely no similarity between Kashmir and Palestine. Kashmir is a part of India; Indian Kashmiris have all rights of Indian citizens, they can move freely in all India; they have Indian passports. This is not the case of Palestine: Palestinians in Palestinian territories have no Israeli citizenship, have no right to move freely or to settle even on their own land. They may not dig a well or fly out of Israeli airport. A Kashmiri has it as good as any Indian, while nobody claims that a Palestinian has it as good as an Israeli Jew. The Indian army in Kashmir protects Kashmiris from jihadis; the Israeli army in Palestine fights Palestinians for the benefit of Jews.

Still, the cause of Kashmir has many supporters in our circles in the West. We became used to defending Muslims when they are attacked by the Empire; this habit is hard to kick. Even such good journalists as Pepe Escobar keep comparing the Modi’s move with Israeli actions in Palestine. Life is more complicated than a comic strip. Islamist insurgency is hell for ordinary Muslims first of all, as we learned in Syria. They are more likely to intimidate a Muslim who does not frequent a mosque than to upset a Jew. And the Muslims, being usually a nice lot, are easily manipulated by their fanatic coreligionists.

There is no simple formula suitable for all situations, but the elimination of Islamic Chechnya by Putin in 2000 has definitely been good for the Chechens. China fights to undo the Islamist scourge within their Uygur community, and that will be certainly good for the Uygur people. President Assad is trying to rid his country of the assorted jihadis, in the interests of Syria’s heterogenic population.

On the other hand, Islamic Taliban does a good job fighting NATO occupation and drug lords in Afghanistan; HAMAS valiantly defends Gaza in teeth of Jewish aggression; Hezbollah fighters keep Lebanese sovereignty and Syrian integrity; Islamic Republic of Iran is the sturdy pivot of the Axis of Resistance. I’ll repeat: there is no simple formula suitable for all situations.

However, if Modi’s act will work out, Russia and China could take it as a model for themselves. There are too many ethnic autonomy areas in these two giant states, and each of them is a petard waiting for the Western miner to explode. China had to suppress the Tibetan autonomy; perhaps the autonomy of Hong Kong and Xinjiang will be next in line. Russia is now in the process of cleaning its exceedingly corrupt autonomous Dagestan.

In Western Europe, too, ethnic autonomy is a way to trouble. Spanish Catalonia has autonomy and it’s dissatisfied, rebellious and separatist. French Catalonia has no autonomy and doing fine; no separatism at all. The reason is simple: ethnic autonomous areas produce native leadership that will forever play on nationalist feelings. This form of organisation is old-fashioned and out-dated, unsuitable in our age.

Some Western activists ingeniously argue that their support for Muslim Kashmir is not a case of Muslims vs. Hindu at all; rather, the case of natives vs. foreigners, and Indians are foreign to Kashmir. Let us disregard for a while that the same activists are usually strongly opinionated against what they call ‘nativism’ in Europe and the US. If they sincerely believe in what they preach, they should pay attention to the Pakistani Kashmir. Everything they are afraid of regarding Indian Kashmir, already had happened in Pakistani Kashmir, where the Muslim Kashmiris had lost their positions under Muslim rule.

After the Partition, the old princely state of Kashmir had been split into Pakistani and Indian parts, approximately of equal size. The fate Imran Khan fears will befell the Kashmiris under Indian rule had already become the fate of Pakistan’s Kashmiris. They became a minority in their land. The majority in Azad Kashmir are Punjabis who moved in from elsewhere in Pakistan. The second largest tribe migrated from Pashtun areas. The Kashmiris are now ninth or tenth community by size in the pecking order in their ancestral land.

In Indian Kashmir, there is large presence of the army fighting the Pakistan-supplied insurgency and protecting peaceful Kashmiris. In Pakistani Kashmir, there is no need for army, as the ethnic replacement had been completed. As for autonomy, the Pakistani Kashmir has none, but in name. From every point of view, India treated Kashmiris much better than Pakistan.

ORDER IT NOW

There is absolutely no reason to accept Pakistani claims. What they did to Kashmiris is worse than whatever could be done by India’s Modi. Saying all that, it is still premature to predict what will come out of Modi’s move. Meanwhile he plays safe. There are many troops; internet had been cut off; public gatherings forbidden. Pakistan is not rushing into war; they have no money for a new war. Probably they will apply to India their usual strategy of “death by thousand cuts”. Much depends on the people of Indian Kashmir. They can have a brilliant future on a par with their magnificent past, but they should reject Pakistani incitement and embrace their Indian brethren, as their grandparents did in the stormy 1947.

Read also http://www.israelshamir.net/English/Eng39.htm – a report of my travel to Kashmir a few years ago.

And to Ladakh: http://www.unz.com/ishamir/buddhas-nativity-in-ladakh/

 
• Category: Foreign Policy, History • Tags: India, Kashmir, Pakistan 
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  1. Anonniau says:

    Be sensitive and do not use the analogy of killing cows in a article about Hindus.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  2. DB Cooper says:

    This article is bunch of BS. India is a shithole and is oppressing Kashmir. There is even a law in India occupied Kashmir that allows the killing of Kashmiris no question ask. The law is called AFSPA (Armed Force Special Power Act).

    Free Kashmir from the shithole India.

  3. anon19 says:

    “Here the Muslims and Hindus had lived in peace and harmony”.

    WTF???? I cry bullsh** on that! When have Muslims EVER lived in peace or harmony with non-Muslims?

    • Replies: @anon
    , @Pater
  4. Miro23 says:

    In Western Europe, too, ethnic autonomy is a way to trouble. Spanish Catalonia has autonomy and it’s dissatisfied, rebellious and separatist. French Catalonia has no autonomy and doing fine; no separatism at all. The reason is simple: ethnic autonomous areas produce native leadership that will forever play on nationalist feelings. This form of organization is old-fashioned and out-dated, unsuitable in our age.

    Jean Monnet, who more than anyone can be regarded as the founder of the European Union, said in his book, “Memoirs”, that he was aiming to build the USE (United States of Europe). This would be equivalent to the USA and function much the same way.

    Until recently, his project has been a continuous (suitable in our age?) process of removing national boundaries and centralizing power at a EU government level, with the introduction of community laws, a single currency etc. In this context, national identity and national histories are “bad” (and somewhat correctly) are viewed as likely to lead to the type of endless European conflicts that culminated in WW1 and WW2. Monet saw the EU as more of a project of political reconciliation than an economic one (particularly between France and Germany).

    That the EU has been hijacked by Zio-Globalists and Cultural Bolsheviks is a separate issue and nothing different from the United States.

    Ethnic autonomous areas (usually countries) produce native leadership that will forever play on nationalist feelings because these feeling are real. For example, you can explain all you like to ethnic Chinese and Indians that they are global citizens and part of a Coca Cola advert, but they’re still going to regard themselves as ethnic Chinese and Indians with their respective interests and attachment to their respective homelands.

    Realistically, the best that can probably be done, is to accept the realities of race, history and territory and (for example in the EU) link independent and sovereign countries within a loose European Confederation. This would have some historic and ethnic validity to the extent that Europe isn’t Arabic or Asiatic and European states developed from their tribal pasts through their common experience of Christendom. And a looser European Confederation could usefully accommodate Russia and the Ukraine.

    • Replies: @Jim bob Lassiter
  5. Israel Shamir, calling you out for a Kashmir dispute origins, history and modern day debate. On Facebook, since I see you active there.

    You’ve posted either irrelevant bullshit only internet edgelords care about or downright falsehoods and lies.

    • Agree: Moi
  6. Myths I have the sources to debunk each and every one of:

    1) Pakistan is a Western ally and India isn’t
    2) India-Israeli ties are only a creation of Modi and don’t totally go to the 1950s and 60s
    3) Pakistan’s GCC ties made it a partisan player in Mideast politics (reality: it has no role there)

    4) Pakistan started violence in Kashmir in 1947 (again, got the old historical sources for Indo-Dogra communal slaughters of Muslims there
    5) Indian occupied Kashmir was peaceful until ‘Pakistan-sent’ ‘terrorists’ ruined it

    Shamir, show up on FB for the debate. So more people can see me rip your bullshit to shreds.

  7. Guys, follow Israel’s Facebook closely. I’m commenting there and am gonna dismantle every bit of Hindutvadi Indian propaganda this guy’s just peddled.

    Open debate challenge, Israel. Let’s see what you got.

  8. >>>>BULLSHIT<<<<<
    Pakistan did NOT initiate first hostilities in the Princely State of Kashmir (hope u know what that means) in 1947. And please excuse the occasional capslock for emphasis 🙂

    https://scroll.in/article/811468/the-killing-fields-of-jammu-when-it-was-muslims-who-were-eliminated

    India in violation of a number of pacts the Princely State of Kashmir (Hindu Maharaja, 70% Muslim population) had with Pakistan that he wouldnt bring Indian forces into the state whilst he decided the accession process), was helping the Dogra Prince carry out a huge massacre in Jammu of Kashmir where 237 000 Muslims were killed. with Indian assistance in the form of RSS paramilitaries and active troops from India's state of Patiala.

    THIS PREDATES THE MUCH TALKED ABOUT PAKISTANI 'TRIBAL INVASION' OF 22 OCTOBER BY AT THE VERY MINIMUM 5 DAYS, TO WHICH THE 'OFFICIAL' INDIAN ARMY INTERVENTION OF 27 OCTOBER IS TOUTED AS A RESPONSE.

    • Replies: @Bluetev
    , @Talha
  9. As for the ‘evil insurgents committed crimes against innocent Kashmiri Hindu Pandits’ narrative, used by India’s resurgent Hindutvadi movement of the era to justify all manner of vile pogroms against Indian Muslims and even the destruction of the Babri Masjid of India in 1992:

    ‘During the armed rebellion of 1989, many Kashmiris who were believed to be supporting Indian rule in Kashmir were selectively killed. Several Kashmiri Pandits were also killed, mostly on allegations of being informers of the government. A community that was comfortable with the Indian rule couldn’t cope up with the uprising freedom wave that swept the entire Kashmir valley.

    The first militant attack was on a Muslim police officer, Ali Muhammad Watali. The first militancy related civilian killing was also of a Muslim, Muhammad Yusuf Halwai, on 21 August 1989. He was an activist of National Conference. Mir Mustafa, a former legislator, was kidnapped and killed on 21 March 1990. Professor Mushir-ul-Haq, VC of the University of Kashmir and his Private Secretary, Abdul Gani, were kidnapped and killed on 6 April 1990. Mirwaiz Maulvi Farooq was gunned down on 21 May, 1990. On 23 December 1990, senior politician Maulana Mohammad Sayeed Masoodi was gunned down. Some Kashmiri Pandits like Tika Lal Tapiloo of BJP, Neel Kant Ganjoo – a sessions judge who ordered the hanging of Maqbool Bhat, Lassa Koul – Director of Doordarshan Srinagar and Pushkar Nath – Assistant Director in the State Information Department — were also killed.

    All these killings were political rather than communal in nature. The first militancy related abduction was also of a Muslim Kashmiri woman, Rubaiya Sayeed, who was later released in exchange of five jailed rebels.’

    ‘A Kashmiri Pandit, K. L. Koul wrote in The Daily Alsafa (18/9/1990) :

    “Pandits were told that the government has plans of killing about one lakh Kashmiri Muslims in order to overcome the uprising against India. They were assured that once the proposed massacre in Kashmir was completed and the movement curbed, they would be sent back to the valley. My community now understands that it was a very crude way of painting the mass uprising against India as nothing but a communal flare up. The Indian government tried to fool the world by depicting the uprising as a handiwork of Muslim Fundamentalists who had turned against non-Muslims and had thrown them out of their homes. I know my community has lost the affection, love, respect and goodwill of Kashmiri Muslims for having betrayed them. I feel ashamed to admit that my community has stabbed the Muslims in the back. This all happened at the instance of Jagmohan. Some self-styled Pandit leaders exploited the situation and Pandits became refugees in their own land.”’

    Source: https://lostkashmirihistory.com/exposing-the-kp-exodus/

    Excerpts from ‘Kashmir: Exposing the myth behind the narrative’ by Khalid Bashir Ahmed. Top historical source material, quotes and all in all sound info.

    • Replies: @Bluetev
  10. ‘There is no simple formula suitable for all situations,’ that is true. And the tragedy of Kashmir could become a tragedy not just for the region but for the whole world. Great power rivalries are frequently fought out in local conflicts. Pakistan and India are nuclear adversaries, but their dispute also serves the interests of other nuclear powers. World war three could start as the consequence of a nuclear exchange between the two states. Or a nuclear exchange between them could be a consequence of nuclear war starting elsewhere.
    https://www.ghostsofhistory.wordpress.com/

  11. I see a surprising number of people defending Pakistan. But it is true that the Pakistani ISI has links to terrorism and 9/11. The US should have extradited these turncoats and brought them here for trial, rather than wasting its time waterboarding Osama bin Laden’s cook and chauffeur.

    • Replies: @Mack the Knife
    , @anon
  12. No mention here of the Nehrus, whose extensive land holdings in Kashmir were the main, if not the sole, reason India’s Nehru-run government chose to ignore precedent and informal legal agreements and annex Muslim Kashmir to India. This article is such a farrago of Indian propaganda, recycled lies, and totally novel bullshit pulled out from God knows where, that I’m surprised if anyone with the least knowledge of the Kashmir situation would pay any attention to it or bother reading past the first few paragraphs.

    The fact is that Sri Modi is a race-pandering bully cut from the same cloth as Netanyahu. Modi is willing to risk nuclear war to satisfy his loony cow-worshipping base. He may wind up getting more than he bargained for and there’s little that Trump, Putin or Netanyahu can do to prevent a potential catastrophe. Those three leaders have lost all credence with Pakistan’s rulers.

  13. Pakistan fought and destroyed South Asia’s largest actual terrorist group, the Tehreek e Taliban Pakistan (TTP, not to be confused with Afghan Taliban). Repeated military operations along the mostly pourous Pak-Afghan border in terrain similar to where NATO and its puppet Kabul army next door stands hopeless vs Afghan insurgents.

    As for Israel Shamir’s weak propaganda, I believe I’ve dismantled it well enough. ‘Islamist history books’ lol? British/Indo history books more like it and they all damn India’s long occupation and its crimes.

  14. Gentlemen, I am not a big fan of Wikipedia; I wrote extensively against it. However, it contains received historical tradition. It says “At the time of the British withdrawal from India, Maharaja Hari Singh, the ruler of the state, preferred to become independent and remain neutral between the successor dominions of India and Pakistan.[3] However, an uprising in the western districts of the State followed by an attack by raiders from the neighbouring Northwest Frontier Province, supported by Pakistan, put an end to his plans for independence. On 26 October 1947, the Maharaja signed the Instrument of Accession joining the Dominion of India in return for military aid.[4]
    In other words, if Pakistan would not support the invasion of Kashmir, it would be independent. But Pakis didn’t want Kashmir to be independent. They wanted it to themselves.

    • Replies: @Hossein
    , @Talha
  15. romar says:
    @DB Cooper

    What’s wrong with you, DB Cooper? You haven’t been sleeping well, perhaps?
    This is a very interesting take on the issue
    And Shamir is correct in pointing to the fact that these local, ethnic-bqsed autonomies have so far been a source of friction and trouble.

  16. DB Cooper says:

    “On 26 October 1947, the Maharaja signed the Instrument of Accession joining the Dominion of India in return for military aid.[4]”

    This is what has been alleged by India. But trouble is no one has ever seen that Instrument of Accession and India has said it has lost it. Knowing the BS artistry of Indians, I won’t give any credence to this allegation.

    • Replies: @israel shamir
  17. DB Cooper says:
    @israel shamir

    By the way Kashmir is hardly the only land grab of India. It is the actually the first. Here is a selected list of India land grabs since August 1947. You won’t read about this in the MSM. Welcome to unz.com.

    [MORE]

    1947 Annexation of Kashmir:
    http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/02/06/indias-shame/
    http://thediplomat.com/2015/08/kashmirs-young-rebels/
    1949 Annexation of Manipur:
    http://www.tehelka.com/manipurs-merger-with-india-was-a-forced-annexation/
    http://www.passblue.com/2017/09/05/in-lush-manipur-women-work-for-peace-as-militarization-marches-on/
    1949 Annexation of Tripura:
    http://www.crescent-online.net/2009/09/the-myths-of-one-nation-and-one-hinduism-in-india-zawahir-siddique-2316-articles.html
    1951 Annexation of South Tibet:
    http://kanglaonline.com/2011/06/khathing-the-taking-of-tawang/
    http://www.mainstreamweekly.net/article2582.html
    http://chasfreeman.net/india-pakistan-and-china/
    1954 Annexation of Nagaland:
    http://morungexpress.com/desire-nagas-live-separate-nation-deserved/
    http://nagalandmusings.blogspot.com/2013/01/indias-untold-genocide-of-nagas.html
    1954 Attempt annexation of Sikkim and Bhutan (Failed):
    http://redbarricade.blogspot.hk/2013/01/twisted-truth.html
    1961 Annexation of Goa:
    http://www.ruleoflaw.org.au/the-annexation-of-goa/
    http://www.historytoday.com/richard-cavendish/goa-falls-indian-troops
    http://goa-invasion-1961.blogspot.in/2013/09/india-pirated-goa-china-is-regaining_16.html
    1962 Annexation of Kalapani, Nepal:
    http://www.eurasiareview.com/07032012-indian-hegemony-in-nepal-oped/
    http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-1239348
    http://www.sharnoffsglobalviews.com/land-disputes-116/
    1962 Aggression against China:
    http://gregoryclark.net/redif.html
    http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/news-events/podcasts/renewed-tension-indiachina-border-whos-blame
    1971 Annexation of Turtuk, Pakistan:
    http://www.openthemagazine.com/article/nation/suddenly-indian
    1972 Annexation of Tin Bigha, Bangladesh:
    http://www.dhakatribune.com/op-ed/2014/feb/20/killing-fields
    1975 Annexation of Sikkim (the whole country):
    http://nepalitimes.com/issue/35/Nation/9621#.UohjPHQo6LA
    http://www.passblue.com/2015/07/22/a-small-himalayan-kingdom-remembers-its-lost-independence/

    http://asia.nikkei.com/Politics-Economy/International-Relations/Indian-hegemonism-drags-Himalayan-kingdom-into-oblivion
    http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/annexation-of-sikkim-by-india-was-not-legal-wangchuk-namgyal/1/391498.html
    1983 (Aborted) Attempted invasion of Mauritius:
    http://thediplomat.com/2013/03/when-india-almost-invaded-mauritius/
    1987 Invasion of Sri Lanka
    http://www.asiantribune.com/node/63316
    1990 (Failed) First Attempted annexation of Bhutan:
    http://www.nytimes.com/1990/10/07/world/india-based-groups-seek-to-disrupt-bhutan.html
    2006 Annexation of Duars, Bhutan:
    http://wangchasangey.blogspot.in/2015/11/different-kind-of-anxieties-on.html#comment-form
    2013 Annexation of Moreh, Myanmar:
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nehginpao-kipgen/easing-indiamyanmar-borde_b_4633040.html
    2017 Aggression against China:
    http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2017/07/06/sikkim-stand-off-china-india-collide-himalayas/
    http://www.scmp.com/week-asia/geopolitics/article/2102555/indias-china-war-round-two
    https://www.counterpunch.org/2017/07/11/china-india-standoff-modi-has-bitten-off-more-than-he-can-chew/
    2017 (Failed) Second Attempted annexation of Bhutan:
    http://wangchasangey.blogspot.com/2017/08/the-strategy-behind-india-doklam.html
    http://www.scmp.com/comment/insight-opinion/article/2106709/india-must-find-face-saving-pretext-and-withdraw-doklam
    2018 (Thwarted) Attempt invasion of the Maldives
    https://www.ft.com/content/332a5b1a-1155-11e8-8cb6-b9ccc4c4dbbb
    https://thewire.in/223916/keep-off-maldives-yameen-government-tells-indian-military/?utm_source=alsoread

    • Replies: @Bluetev
  18. Hossein says:
    @israel shamir

    And what happened to the referndum that was supposed to take place? I am not a fan of Pakistan but in the 50,s it was India that bandoned that UN sanctioned plebescite.

    Also Modi is the one who presided over the massacre of Muslims in Gujarat where more than 2000 Muslims were either burnt or hacked to death by the Hindu terrorists.

    The criminal Modi was the governor.

    • Replies: @jen1
  19. @israel shamir

    So Israel Shamir after ignoring every one of my challenges to debate comes up with this. Brilliant. Posting nothing more than Wiki link.

    The conditions for procuring the Instrument of Accession were rendered invalid when the Dogra Maharaja with full active Indian involvement 1) butchered Muslims and 2) didn’t hold any referendum and 3) lost almost his entire state writ to rebellions sparked by his tyranny.

    On the Instrument myth via British historian on Kashmir Alistair Lamb (‘Islamist history books’ lol) India never could have gotten the Instrument before its troops landed in Kashmir AND India never even showed it to the UN who India itself brought in to mediate Kashmir in 1948!
    http://www.mofa.gov.pk/documents/related/Myth.pdf

    [MORE]

    ‘India maintains that this period of independence, the existence of which it has
    never challenged effectively, came to an end on 26/27 October as the result of two pairs
    of closely related transactions which we must now examine. They are:
    a) an Instrument of Accession of Jammu & Kashmir to India which the Maharajah is
    alleged to have signed on 26 October 1947, and;
    b) the acceptance of this Instrument by the Governor-General of India, Lord
    Mountbatten, on 27 October 1947; plus
    c) a letter from the Maharajah to Lord Mountbatten, dated 26 October 1947, in which
    Indian military aid is sought in return for accession to India (on terms stated in an
    allegedly enclosed Instrument) and the appointment of Sheikh Abdullah to head an
    Interim Government of the State; and
    d) a letter from Lord Mountbatten to the Maharajah, dated 27 October 1947,
    acknowledging the above and noting that, once the affairs of the State have been
    settled and law and order is restored, “the question of the State’s accession should
    be settled by a reference to the people.”
    In both pairs of documents it will be noted that the date of the communication
    from the Maharajah, be it the alleged Instrument of Accession or the letter to Lord
    Mountbatten, is given as 26 October 1947, that is to say before the Indian troops actually
    began overtly to intervene in the State’s affairs on the morning of 27 October 1947. It has
    been said that Lord Mountbatten insisted on the Maharajah’s signature as a precondition
    for his approval of Indian intervention in the affairs of what would otherwise be an
    independent State.
    The date, 26 October 1947, has hitherto been accepted as true by virtually all
    observers, be they sympathetic or hostile to the Indian case. It is to be found in an official
    communication by Lord Mountbatten, as Governor General of India, to M.A. Jinnah,
    Governor General of Pakistan, on 1 November 1947; and it is repeated in the White paper
    on Jammu & Kashmir which the Government of India laid before the Indian Parliament
    in March 1948. Pakistani diplomats have never challenged it. Recent research, however,
    has demonstrated beyond a shadow of a doubt that the date is false. This fact emerges
    from the archives, and it is also quite clear from such sources as the memoirs of the Prime
    Minister of Jammu & Kashmir at the time, Mehr Chand Mahajan, and the recently
    published correspondence of Jawaharlal Nehru, the Indian Prime Minister. Circumstantial
    accounts of the events of 26 October 1947, notably that of V.P. Menon (in his The
    Integration of the Indian States, London 1956), who said he was actually present when
    the Maharajah signed, are simply not true.
    It is now absolutely clear that the two documents (a) the Instrument of Accession,
    and (c) the letter to Lord Mountbatten, could not possibly have been signed by the
    Maharajah of Jammu & Kashmir on 26 October 1947. The earliest possible time and date
    for their signature would have to be the afternoon of 27 October 1947. During 26 October
    1947 the Maharajah of Jammu & Kashmir was travelling by road from Srinagar to
    Jammu. His Prime Minister, M.C. Mahajan, who was negotiating with the Government of
    India, and the senior Indian official concerned in State matters, V.P. Menon, were still in
    New Delhi where they remained overnight, and where their presence was noted by many
    observers. There was no communication of any sort between New Delhi and the traveling
    Maharajah. Menon and Mahajan set out by air from New Delhi to Jammu at about 10.00
    a.m. on 27 October; and the Maharajah learned from them for the first time the result of
    his Prime Minister’s negotiations in New Delhi in the early afternoon of that day.
    The key point, of course, as has already been noted above, is that it is now obvious
    that these documents could only have been signed after the overt Indian intervention in
    the State of Jammu & Kashmir. When the Indian troops arrived at Srinagar air field, that
    State was still independent. Any agreements favourable to India signed after such
    intervention cannot escape the charge of having been produced under duress. It was, one
    presumes, to escape just such a charge that the false date 26 October 1947 was assigned
    to these two documents. The deliberately distorted account of that very senior Indian
    official, V.P. Menon, to which reference has already been made, was no doubt executed
    for the same end. Falsification of such a fundamental element as date of signature,
    however, once established, can only cast grave doubt over the validity of the document as
    a whole. ‘

    • Replies: @Bluetev
  20. anonymous[143] • Disclaimer says:

    From every point of view, India treated Kashmiris much better than Pakistan.

    The Joo shows his true colours.

    India has killed and maimed over 70000 Kashmiris, in the last 30 years. This is on top of the massacre by the dogra “king” during the partition;

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/11/forgotten-massacre-ignited-kashmir-dispute-171106144526930.html

    In November 1947, thousands of Muslims were massacred in Jammu region by mobs and paramilitaries led by the army of Dogra ruler Hari Singh.

    The exact number of casualties in the killings that continued for two months is not known but estimates range from 20,000 to 237,000 and nearly half million forced into displacement across the border into the newly created nation of Pakistan and its administered part of Kashmir.

    says Wikipedia, quoting an Indian source.

    Indian source? Lol!

  21. sir,
    ask yourself, why is it almost everywhere muslims exist there is trouble? Kashmir, Afghanistan, Yemen, Lebanon (earlier), Libya, Somalia, Syria, Iraq and Iran, Chechnya, Anatolia (much earlier with genocide), and now Malmo in Sweden….
    compared with such track record, the Hindus’ live and let live attitude is almost a nirvana. may the light of the True Gospel shine upon both peoples!

    • Replies: @Druid
    , @Moi
  22. Bluetev says:
    @AghaHussain

    There was violence on the border areas of Jammu and Punjab in RESPONSE to the ethnic cleansing on West pakistan (Hindus and sikhs went from 15% to 1%)

    And that had zilch to do with the Invasion by Paki irregulars who would, incidentally have taken Srinagar if they had not taken time off for robbery, murder and raping nuns.

    Well, the Indian army entered in response, kicked your stinking arses (not for the last time) and, well…

    • Replies: @Hussain Agha
  23. jen1 says:
    @Hossein

    While your statements are correct, these are both strawman arguments in response to Shamir’s post.,
    which documented the formation of the “new” political reality in Kashmir in 1947. You have brought up a totally different argument.
    Pakistan had encouraged the non state raiders to invade Kashmir, and they occupied Azad Kashmir, whereupon a worried Maharaja asked for Indian support, no doubt to preserve his priviledge.
    In return for this, he asked and received autonomy for Kashmir.
    But the plebiscite was not held, as you pointed out. The Indian position, technically correct and morally suspect, was that an impartial plebiscite could not be held while Azad Kashmir was” occupied.” So the status quo continued. Power does what it can. The weak suffer .
    Mod’i’s doings/or lack thereof, in Gujarat, permitting anti Muslim rioting have no direct bearing on the issue being discussed, which is repeal of Kashmir’s autonomy. Other than nationalism/religion strongly color his policies.

  24. Parbes says:

    Very good article by Israel Shamir, reminding everybody once more of the basic realities of the Kashmir situation and the delusional misunderstandings of ignorant, dumb present-day Western “leftists” and “progressives”. Thank you!

  25. Bluetev says:
    @DB Cooper

    And yet, the periods when India has been immeasurably stronger than pakistan is precisely when there has been no war clouds (1950s, 1970s).

    And anyone interested can just check your supposed “invasion” of Sri Lanka to figure out just how stupid that lost is.

  26. Bluetev says:
    @Hussain Agha

    A lot of verbose obfuscation in that statement to hide that Kashmiri muslims
    – not terrorists, militants, etc, ordinary muslims – murdered or made refugees the entire Hindu pandit population, their own neighbours.

    Shame on you.

  27. Bluetev says:
    @Hussain Agha

    And meanwhile you forget to mention that the UN recognised Pakistan asthe aggressor in 1948 and required them to vacate occupied kashmir before any plebiscite.

    What they did was to deny POK any elections or say, while settling masses of Punjabis there to skew the population.

    Something they are now accusing India of trying to do in free kashmir, on true Goebbelian fashion.

    • Replies: @anon
  28. @DB Cooper

    Agreed. Hindu nationalists treat their own religious minorities brutally, and even their lower castes, who often convert away from Hinduism to Islam, Christianity, or even Maoism in the hopes of obtaining relief.

    • Replies: @DB Cooper
  29. Druid says:
    @anno nimus

    Yet India is called the rape capital of the world, suppresses minorities, etc

    • Replies: @Mack the Knife
  30. Talha says:
    @israel shamir

    I agree here that both sides really need to back off and let the Kashmiris decide under a UN-monitored full plebiscite (both the Pakistani side and the Indian side) and both sides need to remove their militaries or drastically reduce them in the area so the vote can take place without pressure. And then they should honor what the Kashmiris want.

    This vote should be allowed for anyone; Muslim, Hindu or Sikh that can show their family hails from that area before partition. Any Hindu or Sikh that was forced out of that area (or even from Pakistan) due to communal violence during partition should be allowed to return.

    Unilaterally taking over Kahsmir and changing its status while enforcing a media blackout in the area does not show that India is a benign presence. We should hear what Kashmiris have to say:

    And I agree that Pakistan needs to be held to standards where it cannot simply get away with things without letting the Kashmiris express themselves.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Israel Shamir
  31. Talha says:
    @AghaHussain

    Thank you for that link, much appreciated.

    Peace.

  32. @Talha

    History is irreversible. It is impossible to dispossess majority of Pak Kashmir population and expel or disenfranchise them for their parents moved in after 1947. In our world, billions moved after 1947, and it can’t be rolled back. You can’t make a plebiscite of pre-1947 population only, because if you could do it in Kashmir, why not everywhere? Make a plebiscite in Israel discounting Jews, in England discounting West Indians and Pakistanis, in France discounting Algerians… So this idea “This vote should be allowed for anyone; Muslim, Hindu or Sikh that can show their family hails from that area before partition” is not realistic. Even letting back the expellees is not easy. Just let the Pakis cease meddling, and things will sort out.

    • Agree: Tusk
    • Replies: @Talha
  33. Talha says:
    @Israel Shamir

    I understand that this is difficult and will cost money, but so does stationing something like 600,000 Indian soldiers in J&K.

    Not to mention potential conflict between two nuclear-armed nations.

    If anything, this is the time to sort it out politically since many people who were and are affected are actually alive and have legal documentation. After this generation,

    Just let the Pakis cease meddling, and things will sort out.

    Well sure, the Indians would definitely like to do it that way, but did you watch the video about the Kashmiris? Who is representing their voice? So let’s take it at face value that what Pakistan did by gobbling up part of Kashmir is wrong – OK, fine. But do two wrongs make a right? Is the solution to let them get equally shafted by the Indian government?

    Again, what do the Kashmiris want? Where are the reliable voices from their side? Let’s include the Hindu and Sikh Kashmiri voices in it also, even the ones that left the area due to violence.

    Again, why is the central Indian government unilaterally deciding this matter and enforcing with a massive troop increase?

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Talha
  34. Talha says:
    @Talha

    Meant to say; “After this generation, we will lose this chance to right the wrong done to the very people who are true victims and not victims by tangential association.”

  35. Talha says:
    @Talha

    So, for instance:
    “Sixty-four citizens comprising Kashmiri Pandits, Dogras and Sikhs have stated that they ‘unequivocally condemn the abrogation of Article 370,’ and have made a call for ‘an immediate lifting of the state of siege’ in the Valley. …’We reiterate the fact that, we the people of Jammu & Kashmir were not consulted and no decision about our future, taken without our consent can be termed as legitimate.’”
    https://www.thequint.com/news/india/kashmiri-pandits-dogras-sikhs-condemn-abrogation-article-370-jammu-and-kashmir

    • Replies: @Hussain Agha
  36. DB Cooper says:
    @TimeTraveller

    India happens because of the British.

  37. Anonymous[742] • Disclaimer says:

    A very sensible and perceptive article. The Kashmir quagmire has been exploited by too many politicians, ‘freedom fighters’.’experts’ and human rights activists for decades and they have made the situation only worse. The root of the insurrection from 1989 in the Kashmir valley (and only there, not elsewhere in the state) was the cosy if rocky alliance between the Nehru and Abdullah families which enabled Farooq Abdullah to become chief minister after the death of his father through a blatantly stolen election. The Abdullahs ran the state like a private property and publicly claimed to support union with India under special status while privately showing that they were hoping for independence and playing footsie with Pakistan. That is why they and other ‘nationalist leaders’ are so angry about abolition of Article 370 as they wanted to keep the situation unsettled and open to the prospect of secession sooner or later. That only bred uncertainty and meant that Kashmir was treated as a ghetto, By acting now the Indian Parliament (and not Modi suo motto) has taken a decision that previous Congress Governments wished to carry out but did not dare to and it has also nipped in the bud the Pakistani ploy to have President Trump ‘mediate’ on an issue of which he knows nothing. That would have been the ultimate disaster for all regional parties. Under the terms of the Shimla Agreement Pakistan committed to keep the Kashmir issue bilateral and not to bring the UN or third parties into it.

  38. The article is almost entirely ahistorical. Shamir doesn’t know anything about Kashmir, evidenced by his recent chickening out when I challenged him to a debate.

    India started the Kashmir issue. India sustains it. India is RULED by extremists.

  39. @Bluetev

    @Bluetev ‘In response to the ethnic cleansing in West Pakistan’ nonsense. Not that there was not communal violence to both sides of the Punjab region, but you’ve exited Kashmir in this.

    The first violence IN the state of Kashmir was started by the Dogras, assisted actively by the Indians and THEN Pakistan responded.

    I’ve proven this with prime source material beyond a shadow of the doubt. Don’t try to change the geographical goalpost.

    • Agree: Talha
  40. @Talha

    Talha please leave the debate to the folk that know what they’re talking about. You diaspora Pakistanis are an ignorant embarrassment to our country.

    India sent the first armed forces into Kashmir in 1947 —-> FACT
    India sparked the first communal fires in Kashmir in 1947 —-> FACT

    Do not miss out these basic things while debating apologists for India. I’ve already made Israel Shamir look like an immense fraud on FB by having his only responses to my repeated challenges to debate to be silence or timid ‘too long didn’t read’ replies to my posting of sources to back up all I said.

    And he used Wikipedia with an Indian source as his only ‘substantive’ reply in this thread. LOL.

  41. Talha says:
    @Hussain Agha

    While I would love to see a serious debate ensue between you and Mr. Shamir using more credible sources than Wikipedia (I also avoid Wikipedia as much as possible on these contentious issues), the reason I piped up is not because I have more knowledge than you on the subject, but because my viewpoint is precisely not from a “Pakistan zindabad” perspective, but rather as a US citizen and part of the international audience.

    I’m not sure what I stated that’s so wrong; I would like to see what the Kashmiris (Muslim, Hindu, Sikh) think of all this and what they want for their land rather than as a football kicked between Pakistan and India. They are the third party, with the most at stake in all of this whose voice is being ignored. So I don’t know why everyone simply wants to treat their voice as if they don’t count.

    Please keep posting links to informative articles, it is much appreciated m.

    Peace.

  42. I am against special rights ANYWHERE.. So I support this move. Why the heck should the few have any special rights? It seems if you belong to a certain religion or race or ethnicity you want special rights. WTF is that.. Some go so far as to suppress any debate about their suffering entitling them to special rights and stipends. US got rid of affirmative action. Time for others to do the same. This does mean it has to be done for ALL. When everyone is equal then equality will prevail, too many people using their privileges under special rights to run over others. Although I dont see the jews giving up their special privileges in Palestine, sooner or later even they will be forced to.

    • Replies: @Druid
  43. @Talha

    Don’t hold your breath. I posted the sources showing every bit of Indian Kashmir propaganda to be false.

    Shamir literally didn’t challenge me at all. If he is not dishonest he won’t be holding his ridiculous, now-proven-defunct views on Kashmir.

  44. Quintus says:

    I enjoyed reading Shamir’s piece, but it didn’t touch upon what I suspected it would. Simply put, I suspect that a non-Indian faction may played a role in India’s move, which potentially disrupts the land bridge between China and Pakistan, an essential component of China’s OBOR project. I have a hunch that Atlanticists have been prodding India into asserting its sovereignty over Kashmir’s vitally strategic location because of how it could jeopardize the corridor linking China to Pakistan.

    • Replies: @Adam D.
    , @A.R
  45. Брат says:

    Here the Muslims and Hindus have lived together in peace and harmony.

    Really? Well how did it ever come to be that Muslims ended up in an indigenously Hindu land then?

    Kashmir could flourish if this peaceful coexistence had survived. Alas, it did not. Frequent riots, separatism and imported Islamic extremism have made life difficult for everybody.

    Imagine my shock.
    Islam itself, “extreme” or otherwise, was imported long ago and unwillingly. That’s the thing about these Abrahamic religions.

    Anyway, couldn’t bother reading the rest.

  46. @DB Cooper

    The AFSPA is not a Kashmir specific law. One of the most infamous uses of it was when a Manipuri Hindu woman called Thangjam Manorama Devi was arrested, raped, and murdered by Indian paramilitary. Assam Rifles personnel on the charge of being a terrorist. If you claim the AFSPA is Kashmir or Muslim specific, you are being deliberately disingenuous.

    • Replies: @DB Cooper
  47. @Hussain Agha

    “India sent the first armed forces into Kashmir in 1947 —-> FACT”

    Actually, very far from fact. It was only when Srinagar was threatened by tribal militia supported by Pakistani regular troops that Hari Singh begged India for help. India only sent troops after compelling Singh to turn over the state.

    If India had first sent troops to Kashmir, India would have all of Kashmir today.

    There are faults in this article, most of all the notion that the expulsion of the Pandits (an unforgivable crime in itself) changed any demographics, because the entire Pandit community didn’t exceed some 300,000 at the most. Nor are all Kashmiri Muslims pro India by any means. But not all all Muslims in Kashmir Kashmiris. Ask a Jat or Gujjar or Bakarwal Muslim what he or she thinks of Pakistan and you might get a surprise.

    In any case the idea that Pakistan cares about Kashmiri people is asinine. Pakistan gave part of their state away to China without asking them, split the remaining part they occupy in two, and in 1989 when it could have invaded and taken the state (as we, then students, were expecting it to), began its strategy of bleeding India by promoting multiple rival rebel groups instead. Pakistan cares about Kashmir, really? That’s a laugh.

  48. @Talha

    Why is Israel Shamir getting involved in this debate? Does he think that as someone from outside the region he can be more objective? I myself have found that when it comes to Kashmir, Indians and Pakistanis are more heated and worse than even those Balkaners when they discuss their disputes or the Catholic and Protestant Northern Irishmen. It’s a completely hopeless endeavour to try to mediate in that dispute. Neither side will relent and it goes from the very top to the bottom of their societies. They’ll just have to fight it out or postpone to fight it out another day. Unless one day that entire subcontinent unites into some subcontinental economic and political union then maybe they could ease off a little on the conflict. After all France and Germany fought over Alsace Lorraine and both are now in the EU.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @Talha
  49. Hi and thank you for this analogy. I am muslim from South Africa -6th generation born here in this country, and I have very similar thoughts to yours. while I disagree with some of your thouhgts, on the whole I agree on most points.

    Kashmir is valuable to Pakistan for the water rights in terms of geopolitics.
    Kashmir will be assimimalted by India as Pakistan has no way of wining a war.
    Unless, India allows a referendum on the independence of India – no way this is going to happen. All major powers do not allow this – its utter madness.

    I did not know about the people of Kashmir not wanting to join Pakistan at independace, I thouhgt it was up to the King of Kashmir to decide and he chose India as the fanatics from the Pashstuns decided his mind.

    In terms of human growth, Kashmir needs peace like yesterday for Eurasin development and then Brazil and India need to join the UN as permanent veto powers

  50. Nonny says:

    I would like to hear from Muslims living in India, whose families who didn’t flee to Pakistan in 1947. Rumor has it that they were happy and comfortable till the Hindu fanatic Modi became PM. Or isn’t he a Hindu fanatic? Everything still fine for Muslims in India?

    And what about the beastliness of West Pakistan as Bangla Desh fought for independence? Can some Bengali Muslims comment on Kasmir?

    • Replies: @OG
  51. Anonymous[394] • Disclaimer says:

    Pakistan is factually a failing country, overpopulated, with few resources, corroded by extremist Jihadi preachers and terrorists and falling behind in most aspects of human development, ruled by a military/feudal alliance which uses a decorative former sportsman as a front to pose as a democracy.

    Pakistanis need to solve their massive internal problems (including the chronic unrest of their restive provinces of Pushtunistan and Belochistan) instead of shouting hoarse about the part of Kashmir they have not been able to conquer in 70 years. They are living in an imaginary past instead of moving ahead. Why is it that nearly all non-Muslims have left Pakistan since its creation? The area used to be almost 30% Hindu and Sikh before partition and even Shiite Muslims fear for their life in that self-styled ‘land of the pure”.

    • Replies: @Брат
  52. @Miro23

    ” This would have some historic and ethnic validity to the extent that Europe isn’t Arabic or Asiatic and European states developed from their tribal pasts through their common experience of Christendom. ”

    How much longer, at the rate things are going, do you figure that status will be operative in Europe?

  53. Adam D. says:

    You have lost it Israel on this one.
    The kashmiris are ethnically and religiously different to the vast majority of Indians, and have no desire to merge in with them, in what way are they brethren?

    It’s like saying a Swede is ‘brother’ to a portugese, except that’s a much softer comparison with no meaningful religious and cultural differences that exist today.

    How can we say south Indian Tamils, whose ancestors have never step foot in Kashmir are the same peoples as Kashmiris, or rather why would you?

    • Replies: @Fuerchtegott
  54. Adam D. says:

    Israel, you also gloss over, actually ignore how the kashmiris follow Indian brethren have committed plenty of rape crimes, and India proper has enough rape crimes as is known. Btw the darker south Indians are already letting their light skin fetishes cast an eye on Kashmir.

    As for getting bogged down into whet is legal or what is comparable it’s just a distraction. The salient points are kashmiris want to protect their ETHNIC heritage from attack.
    Then on Israel Palestine comparisons a silly red herring to prattle about differences; the point is it’s too close for comfort.

  55. Брат says:
    @Anonymous

    It’s ok, Pakistan can always just move to England. And English girls really don’t mind at all.

  56. Adam D. says:

    India is not necessarily one country of brown people who are all the same, more or less.

    It has various identities and ethnic groups who may or may not happily fall under the Indian banner, that is if you are not one of the two hundred million dalits who are effectively non human and voiceless, or just one of the hundreds of millions living in and around the poverty line, cos they don’t matter either (Israel, want to do an article on the dalits by any chance?)

    • Replies: @PiltdownMan
    , @anno nimus
  57. @Adam D.

    A prot is closer to a muslim than to a catholic.

    • Replies: @Adam D.
  58. Брат says:

    The Americans should just invade Kashmir, then give it to Afghanistan. Specifically, the Pashtuns should get it as reparations for the US invasion. The Taliban and the Uyghurs will finally be able to share a border. Imagine the diversity. It will make everyone happier, especially the Chinese. And Trump would get that Nobel Peace Prize he’s always deserved.

  59. anon[336] • Disclaimer says:
    @anon19

    When Indians not yet labeled Hindus but as worshippers of this or that version of 33 million Gods used to kill each other .

  60. anon[336] • Disclaimer says:

    “In J&K, Maharaja Hari Singh Dogra was left with a decision – join his state to Muslim-majority Pakistan, to Hindu-majority India, or remain independent. As he weighed his options, Golwalkar visited the Maharaja on October 17, 1947 to pressure him to join India.

    In the days and weeks before Golwalkar’s visit, the Dogra’s troops and the RSS joined hands to conduct a state-sanctioned pogrom of Muslims.
    In the mountains of Jammu, Muslims constituted a smaller majority than in the Kashmir Valley to the north. In September, they were targeted for ethnic cleansing. “The Dogra state troops were at the forefront of attacks on Muslims,” writes historian Ilyas Chattha.

    . “The state authorities were also reported to be issuing arms… to local volunteer organizations such as RSS.” Chattha claims, “The Maharaja of the Dogra Hindu state was complicit in the targeted violence against Kashmiri Muslims.” According to some reports, he explains, Hari Singh Dogra was “‘in person commanding all the forces’ which were ethnically cleansing the Muslims.”
    “Instead of trying to prevent such killings and preserving communal peace, the Maharaja’s administration helped and even armed the communal marauders,” writes Ved Bhasin, a witness to the massacre who later became a journalist. “It was a planned genocide by the RSS activists.”
    After the Maharaja agreed to accession on October 26 – barely a week after RSS chief Golwalkar’s visit – the killings continued. “In the first week of November, the Pakistan government dispatched many buses to Jammu city to transport the refugees into Sialkot,” writes Chattha.

    The Dogra’s troops and RSS men “attacked the caravan and killed most of the passengers and abducted their women.”
    By the end, the total number of dead was catastrophically high. Bhasin says, “There is no doubt that their number runs into several thousands.

    .” Political scientist Christopher Snedden says, “Perhaps between 20,000 and 100,000 Muslims were killed.”

    A 1948 report in London’s The Times alleged that “237,000 Muslims were systematically exterminated.”

    However many actually died, one tragic fact stood out. “There was hardly any family in the region which escaped the horrible wrath of communal hooligans,” writes journalist Zafar Choudhary. “The events of 1947 permanently changed the way the Muslims of Jammu would live or think. A majority of them was either massacred, or pushed to the other side of the divide; many fled to save their lives thus leaving behind a terrorized and harassed minuscule minority.”

    https://original.antiwar.com/pieter-j-friedrich/2019/08/07/jammu-and-kashmir-loses-special-status/

    That is the backstory . 1947 riot by the king against his own people until then were unheard in the entire human history .

    Ghandhi’s letters confirmed the diabolical role RSS and king played in starting maintaining and perpetrating worst riot with help of state machinery.

    This will be replayed repeatedly again after 1987 by
    RSS .

    Last time it was organized in a massive scale was riot in
    Gugrat of India ,2002 , against local Muslim on the basis of false narrative that a train with its Hindu passengers were torched and burned to ground by some Muslim .

    • Replies: @Adam D.
  61. Adam D. says:
    @Fuerchtegott

    I understand where you are coming from, and there is a certain overlap in their respective attitude to dogma – but not all muslims, or protestants.

    The religious difference with Kashmir is not the only separating one, it’s an ethnic, religious, linguistic and cultural difference, I would remind Israel shamir again, how are they brethren?

    The first principle to establish is difference is there, forgot the historical arguments and prattle which will unlikely
    translate into much in the present.

    If kashmiris were smarter they would focus on the religious one less.

  62. anon[336] • Disclaimer says:
    @Hussain Agha

    After the riot in Gujrat in 2002, my suspicion of RSS being behind the rise of pro Nazi like Hinduvata at least from 1987, just have got more solidified .
    Since 1987, rise of violence against Muslim and sometimes Christian have been a regular fixture on North Indian landscape . I believe RSS pressure was behind Kashmir issued from 1947

    Here is an astonishing article from Hindustan Times

    ““But what is perhaps closest to the truth is the truly damning report of Mohinder Singh Dahiya, then assistant director of the Forensic Studies Laboratory (FSL) at Gandhinagar, Gujarat, which put paid to the theory of the coach being set afire by an angry mob, which had mysteriously collected outside the Godhra railway station. The report concluded that the coach was set afire by someone “standing in the passage of the compartment near seat number 72, using a container with a wide opening about 60 litres of inflammable liquid has been poured and then a fire has been started in the bogie.” Dahiya is a highly-qualified professional with a doctorate in forensic science and is currently the Director of the institute of forensic science and institute of behavioral science at the Gujarat Forensic Sciences University,set up by the Gujarat government.

    The FSL had also demonstrated by experiments that it was virtually impossible to throw inflammable liquids into the train through the open windows that are at a height of seven feet from the ground. The report also states that there was a three feet high mound running parallel to the track at a distance of 14 feet and if the fire bombers were standing on this mound and sloshing the fuel at the compartment only about 10-15% of the fuel would have got inside. Since the rest of the fuel would then have fallen outside there would have been burn damage on and near the track. This was not so.

    File photographs of the burning coach show the flames raging from within and without even the external paintwork being touched.

    The pictures also show rescuers trying to hose down the flames standing right alongside the burning coach. Very obviously the coach was set afire from within.

    Furthermore, the train was stopped by pulling the emergency chain and that can only be from inside.”

    Feb 27, 2017 20:09:43
    By Mohan Guruswamy
    Hindustan Times .

    ( google search 15 yrs after Godhra. train torch Hindustan Times )

    A similar publication in the context of Syria , Hongkong or Ukraine or Venezuela or Iran would have got those countries bomber by NATO or be investigated by ICC or UN and any leader , in this case Modi, would have been put on trial.

    • Replies: @Malla
  63. Adam D. says:
    @anon

    The concern Israel shamir should be stating is impending genocide of the Kashmiri by perversely enough, a bargain shop brown skinned orange robed version of nazism, how has he missed the mark so badly here?

  64. Adam D. says:
    @Quintus

    Indeed, am emotive subject can sometimes mask the reality.
    The timing of this move was that once Pakistan globally and vocally agreed to commit to Afghanistan with the anvil of IMF, fatf etc hanging over them india could go ahead without fear of reprisal, Pakistan is distracted, so is China.

  65. Just as we dislike Muslims and their overly zealous local converts to Islam in the West, the people of the East also do not like the local converts and certainly not the Arabs. Ever since the HAJI made up the SCHEISSE, prosperity and peace are unknown those dumbed down suckers.

    • Replies: @anon
  66. @Adam D.

    India is not necessarily one country of brown people who are all the same, more or less.

    Correct.
    Kashmiris look quite different from our stereotypical mental images of lowland Indians.

  67. utu says:
    @Commentator Mike

    Why is Israel Shamir getting involved in this debate? – Because it is a template for Israel (the state). Probably some Zionist advisers helped Modi to make this decision and once it gets normalized Israel will claim it as a precedence for its own actions.

    Israel Shamir never abandoned his Stalinist tendencies and as he gets older he will return to his faith and his original beliefs like Zionism. This is what usually happens to Jewish apostates in old age.

  68. Mevashir says:

    Wow. What a daring article with outrageous chutzpah. Makes one wonder about claims that Shamir is a Putin agent.

    However, if Modi’s act will work out, Russia and China could take it as a model for themselves. There are too many ethnic autonomy areas in these two giant states, and each of them is a petard waiting for the Western miner to explode. China had to suppress the Tibetan autonomy; perhaps the autonomy of Hong Kong and Xinjiang will be next in line. Russia is now in the process of cleaning its exceedingly corrupt autonomous Dagestan.

    China had to suppress Tibetan autonomy AFTER they invaded and enslaved Tibet!

    And what evidence does he offer that the Uyghers are full of Islamist terrorists? Perhaps they too aspire to cultural autonomy after China’s brutal invasion and annexation?

    And if Shamir is so enamored of ethnic cleansing, why does he continually complain about Israeli disenfranchisement of the Palestinians?

    • Replies: @Mevashir
  69. Maddaugh says:

    India and Pakistan fighting over Kashmir is like two bald men fighting over a comb.

    Politicians the world over are rarely the brightest. Hopefully they can become friends again because in the event of a war we can expect OUR stupid politicians to fling open the door allowing a plague of Indians and Pakis into this country. As if we do not have enough !!??

    Adversity and Multiculturism is supposed to be good for us and allegedly works here. Unfortunately the it does not work THERE and that is why they are HERE !

    Make sense ??

    • Replies: @Mevashir
  70. anon[130] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous Snanonymous

    may be that’s why King participated in the killings.

    Mahatma Gandhi did comment on the situation in Jammu on 25 December 1947 and his remarks have found mention in volume 90 of his Collected Works: “The Hindus and Sikhs of Jammu and those who had gone there from outside killed Muslims. The Maharaja of Kashmir is responsible for what is happening there…Muslim women have been dishonoured.”

    • Replies: @Anonymous Snanonymous
  71. anon[130] • Disclaimer says:

    “In this (intelligence) report, among other things, a reference was made to a growing Hindu agitation in Jammu province for what is called a zonal plebiscite. This idea is based on the belief that a plebiscite for the whole of Kashmir is bound to be lost and, therefore, let us save Jammu at least. You will perhaps remember that some proposal of this kind was put forward by the Maharaja some months back. it seems to me that this kind of propaganda is very harmful, indeed, for us. Whatever may happen in the future, I do not think Jammu province is running away from us. If we want Jammu province by itself and are prepared to make a present of the rest of the State to Pakistan, I have no doubt we could clinch the issue in a few days. The prize we are fighting for is the valley of Kashmir. [This is what Nehru had dug in his heels for. The consequences are for all to see to this day.]
    This propaganda for a zonal plebiscite is going on in Jammu, in Delhi and elsewhere. It is carried on by what is known as the Jammu Praja Parishad. Our intelligence officer reported that this Praja Parishad is financed by the Maharaja. Further, that the large sums collected for the Dharmarth Fund, which are controlled by the Maharaja, are being spent in propaganda for him.—“

    Jawaharlal Nehru wrote to Vallabhbhai Patel on 17 April 1949 (quoted in Frontline magazine)

    https://scroll.in/article/811468/the-killing-fields-of-jammu-when-it-was-muslims-who-were-eliminated?fbclid=IwAR0SoEGWbI1V-BNmEhUGJuYuAPo1oU_GA3LuS6d0hh3YHJ78_arSH0UsnKg

    Essentially Nehru is confirming why the and how the problem started. Facing the possible loss of Kashmir and Jammu in case of popular choice , Indian Hindu rabid fanatics known as RSS decided to strike the Muslims of Jammu ,get rid of them and take possession of Jammu at least . Nehru might have been told or he might have believed into this somewhat sanitized version of limited aims of Hindu fanatics and of activity by RSS inside Congress ( Paten was RSS supporter ) .But their motive was to grab the entire state . That version of history is heard today by Hindu RSS who assert that the aim is to have the entire peninsula from Afghanistan to Burma to Sri Lanka.

  72. Talha says:
    @Commentator Mike

    Yeah, I don’t know Mike. I thought it maybe had to do with the Russian connection since he likes to write positive stuff about Russia and Russia is India’s number one military supplier. But he also doesn’t like Israel and India is Israel’s number one military client so that’s a wash. Maybe he just wanted to chime in on a topic that is currently in the news.

    I do hope India and Pakistan can hash this out, but with the full participation of all Kashmiris. We – the US – don’t need to involve ourselves at all. This can be done diplomatically (or otherwise) between the Muslim world and India.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Malla
  73. Mevashir says:
    @Mevashir

    Shamir clearly is a Putin Parrot.

    He opposes Islamic autonomy as Putin does towards the Chechens.

    As an example he supports India’s takeover of Kashmir.

    But he opposes Israeli disenfranchisement of the Palestinians because that threatens the stability of Putin’s client Syria.

    • Replies: @Mevashir
  74. Mevashir says:
    @Maddaugh

    Adversity and Multiculturism is supposed to be good for us and allegedly works here. Unfortunately the it does not work THERE and that is why they are HERE!

    It works here because Wall Street wants them here to destroy American labor. As Paul Craig Roberts calls it: Labor Arbitrage.

  75. Apparently, Narendra Modi had been encouraged (…) by his decent relations with the three powerful men of our age, Trump, Putin and Netanyahu

    Apparently, Gorbachev thought he was a friend of Reagan, Thatcher, Kohl and everyone else. We know how it ended.

    I’ll have to think about whether there is more to this parallel.

  76. Tom67 says:

    @Shamir – Maybe about Kashmir you are right. But definately not about the Uighurs. And actually it isn´t about the Uyghurs anymore either. It is about all Turkish minorities in Xinjiang. A very good Russian journalist that you personally know – Sania Burtin – has published a lenghty article about Xinjiang. You can find it on lesmedia. You know he is no hack. Please go and read it. What is happening in Xinjiang is truly terrible

  77. @anon

    With all due respect, the Indian Subcontinent has been the lands of the Hindus, just as the west has been the homelands of the Europeans of the so called, Indo-Europeans peoples, since the ancient Greeks and just because the johnnys-come-lately from the Middle East has converted those dumb asses, is no reason for the majority of South Asia to allow the theft of their sacred lands to be turned over to agent provocateurs on the permanent basis. India can and should take back what is rightfully theirs, just as the Europeans must take back the ancient lands of the Greeks, in other words, Turkey. Let Jews have the Eretz Israel and the Arabs, the only true Muslims, the deserts.

    • Replies: @Adam D.
    , @anon
    , @anon
  78. Adam D. says:

    Did Israel shamir really write this article himself, or did he just attach his name to it?

  79. OG says:
    @Nonny

    Ok i’ll wade in as an Indian non-kashmiri muslim. We always felt kashmiris were racist and looked down on indians, even indian muslims. Also they are very sunni sectarian, treating shias whether kashmiri or from kargil as non-muslims. I find it funny that iran insists on championing the kashmiri cause. So the Islam bit is a sham. When it comes to Pakistan as a state caring for muslims in the subcontinent, ask any Bangladeshi who remembers the 71 war of independence how they treated the men and the women (mass rapes). The hindu right has rallied around the pm and rejoicing that muslims and pakistan have been taught a lesson. I don’t let that deflect from the fact that this might just cut the gordian knot. No more will a few kashmimi sunni muslim dominated districts in the valley hold the nation at ransom.

  80. Adam D. says:
    @Anonymous Snanonymous

    You are living in dream land, india is and always has been a price taker when it comes to the marketplace of ancient civilisations.This revival of hinduvata is subservient to whatever America tells you, so eventually gay pride and same sex marriages will be part of brand India, not the deep mystical well of ancient Indian Hinduism which is so ancient, so mystical that those who forgot it never seek to find it again

  81. Mevashir says:
    @Mevashir

    I used to think Shamir was a true Christian humanitarian and that is why he opposes Israeli actions against the Palestinians. But now I think he is simply a Russian nationalist who will support any policy favorable to Russia. The only difference between Shamir and Putin is that Putin is much more favorable towards Jews. Putin doesn’t feel he has to prove anything while Shamir is anxious to prove that his loyalty to Putin trumps his Jewish ethnicity.

  82. Talha says:
    @Adam D.

    so eventually gay pride and same sex marriages will be part of brand India

    Possibly, and it will be couched in revolutionary rhetoric:
    “India now joins a proud league of nations that recognises recognises true freedom of gender identity and sexual expression…No kind of prejudice and discrimination can continue in perpetuity. Section 377 was introduced in Indian criminal law in furtherance of western notions of morality, based on Abrahamic ideologies. At the time of its introduction, limited consideration was given to a contradictory morality that existed in the subcontinent, which acknowledged and recognised homosexuality, and did not criminalise it.”
    https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/section-377-impact-will-be-felt-beyond-india/articleshow/65712471.cms

    so mystical that those who forgot it never seek to find it again

    That land has always been this way – one of the reasons that Sufism has historically been so big in that area and even in terms of how Islam spread in various parts. There is a deep well-spring of spiritual undercurrent in India – and has always been.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @anon
  83. Theo says:

    An interesting article and I enjoyed the different comments and opinions on it.

  84. @Adam D.

    Apart from your typical Muslim mindset of pasr centuries and rabid hatred inculcated into your pea-brain by good-for-nothing desert rats, PRIDE parades are the least of the problems that East and the West are facing, the pressing issues are of the people who in the face of realities of modern world, are still pining for the golden age of afro-semites, which never was truly Islamic in nature.

    • Replies: @Adam D.
  85. anon[264] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous Snanonymous

    What is conversion ?
    Who own lands ? Who comes and becomes immigrants ?
    Who decides what religion and what culture define a particular place in certain time amazing certain group of people ?

    Hindus are foreigners both by genetic and by ideology . It’s as foreign as is Islam or Christianity
    The religion that is indigenous is Buddhism . It has been fought to extinction by Hindu revival in 6 th century and then blamed on Muslim .

    Europe has seen same changes . The original Etruscan people got slaughtered displaced and submerged by new comets who built Rome . Christianity displaced local culture and habit .

    If Democracy can change to dynastic gov or feudalism to market economy or closed economy to open and nomadic life to settled life , what stops person from changing religion out of spiritual need or economic need ?

    • Replies: @Adam D.
  86. Adam D. says:
    @Anonymous Snanonymous

    There is no need to bring the discussion to this level.

    I am simply saying that this reference to an atavistic hindu era spanning from Kabul to Colombo is just a fairy tale at best from another eon, and in reality a bit of a lame attempt to equate hindu lens india with Europe as a prominent, decisive and forceful player in world history as ancient and powerful as any other – no one believes that so why mention it, any concept of hindu civilisation has been out the game for a millennia, but that’s not to say it cant be manipulated for those who hold out for it.

    Really the point on pride is this; sovereign countries have control of their society’s cultural values, and don’t introduce the values of others unless there is compatibility and consensus.

  87. Moi says:
    @DB Cooper

    I’ve not read such BS in quite some time. Seems like Israel Shamir is ghosting this piece for Modi’s best pal Bibi.

  88. anon[264] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous Snanonymous

    That has never happened unless you bring everybody back to Eastern Africa including yourself and start the nomadic hunter gatherer life again .

  89. Moi says:
    @anno nimus

    Yeah, the lower castes have it just dandy in India. LOL!

  90. Adam D. says:
    @anon

    Historically India has always had the influence of passerbys from forever. It’s not a dig, it’s just simply stating that notions of Muslim impurity due to Islam vs hindu purity due to being hindu is fanciful.

    In any case, when someone says they are hindu that’s not really meaningful, you also need to know what region of India, what caste, what

    • Replies: @Talha
  91. anon[130] • Disclaimer says:
    @Bluetev

    UN also asked India to allow free election and readmission of those who left Jammu out of rioting by RSS . India could have done his part be cause it initiated teh process of forceful merger through vandalism RSS and use of state machinery . India might have been saved by UN but it was the instigator .

  92. A.R says:
    @Quintus

    Indeed. I would also like to learn more about how this move affects “The belt and road” project.

    • Replies: @anon
  93. Talha says:
    @Adam D.

    Historically India has always had the influence of passerbys from forever.

    That basically applies to everyone honestly. Anyone who has done a reading of history knows that there is very little in the way of civilizations that aren’t affected by others (especially those nearby). They are digging up coins with Arabic inscription on them in Scandinavia due to the Viking trade routes. Serious isolation only happens when you have huge geographic division like that of Australia or the Americas or something.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Anonymous Snanonymous
  94. anon[201] • Disclaimer says:

    1857 replaced the enlightenment of India that was introduced by Raja Ram Mohan and other figures , with Hindu nationalistic exclusive racial ideology of Babkin Chandra and other Hindu academic . 1857 was to them a great opportunity of taking revenge on local Muslim for the atrocities committed by Mughal and Pathan for 500 yrs .
    That 500 yrs was a joint project of both Hindu and Muslim . Kashmir was made part of India by Akbar through the military expertise of Hindu general .
    But these are intellectual irritants to the Hindu upper caste .

    But as 1857 gave rise to 1940, so would this post 911 world .

  95. @Fidelios Automata

    Surprising number of people defending Pakistan? hmm…It’s basically one guy is who swamping the comments section with aggressive, dubious stuff.

  96. @Jus' Sayin'...

    What a moronic statement to suggest that just because Kashmir had more Muslims converts living there at the time of the partition it ougt to remain so forever! Remember, at the time of the partition the British India was overwhelmingly Hindu, thus it stands to reason by the above logic that the entire subcontinent must remain Hindu forever. Islam displaced Zoroastrianism from Iran and Dharma from large tracts of India, therefore, it shouldn’t be surprising that those creeds may replace the alien ideology of a semitic tribe some day by hook or by crook. After all, they had the nefarious example of how to spread a faith by the sword.

    • Replies: @anon
  97. Herzog says:

    The Muslims in this forum will muslimize, no matter what, some more primitively with broad aggressive strokes, some more subtly and while whispering “peace.”

    The fact remains that wherever you have Muslim communities, you have trouble.

    Even if occasionally they too may have suffered unjustly, I just can’t bring myself to care any longer. Overall their record is just too abysmal. So, let karma (sweet Hindu concept, ain’t it?) do its work.

    • Replies: @Adam D.
  98. Life is simple; if I write something that does not fit Paki vision, they immediately discover that I am a Jew, a Putin’s agent, a Mossad spy and an ignorant Modi follower. Because of this simplicity, Pakistan is what it is. I’d say: anybody who wants his land to join Pakistan has to be certified. That’s why I am sure Kashmiris would never do it unless under duress. They are not that stupid.

  99. anon[247] • Disclaimer says:
    @Talha

    India accepts one set of imposed value and it does under pressure or being bribed or after seeing opportunities of aggrandizement, consolidation of explorative reactionary exclusive power in other more important areas . India also blames later the same power that imposed it and only after declaring itself as a victim .

    Today Hindu elite worships Israel and US . Tomorrow they would discard Israel as they have Nazi and would blame USA for economic destruction as they have the Mughal dynasty .

    • Replies: @Talha
  100. @Druid

    There are more Muslims in India than in Pakistan, so how exactly does India “suppress minorities”?

  101. anon[247] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous Snanonymous

    Because Indian Hindu didn’t want to share a more democratic federal India at the time before partition That’s the reason partition became a reality . Having said thatKashmir would have gone to India according to the principle to which Indian
    Hindu agreed to .

    • Replies: @anon
  102. @Talha

    It would be extremely difficult to distinguish between an Indian, a Bangladeshi, a Pakistani, a Maldivian and a Sri Lankan, save a very small minority, relatively speaking, who look like outsiders. I can’t tell the difference between a Hindu and a Muslim of Pakistan…can you? Arabs,on the other hand, notwithstanding their skin tone, do look different.

    • Replies: @Talha
  103. anon[247] • Disclaimer says:
    @A.R

    Yes India has abrogated article 370 but not identical article 371 that applies to non Muslim North Eastern states .

    It is the reflection of the same mindset that makes
    Modi or his henchmen declare that “ all
    Immigrants excepting Hindu Buddha and Sikh will be deported from Assam and NE India .”

    India has declared war on Muslim citizen of India . It is energized by the sad corrupt state of Saudi , UAE, Iran and by support of Israel and USA.

    But this lay of the land will change and not in favor of India .

  104. Talha says:
    @israel shamir

    That’s why I am sure Kashmiris would never do it unless under duress. They are not that stupid.

    Yeah, I don’t think the Kashmiris were ever gung-ho about joining Pakistan, but that’s not the question at hand. The question at hand is what do the Kashmiris (of whatever religious background and whether in Kashmir or displaced) as a people feel about the repeal of 370 and about loss of local autonomy which was guaranteed to them. Now, if the central Indian government simply doesn’t care what they feel and is unilaterally willing to change the law without consulting them and is willing to enforce their side of things with close to 700,000 boots in the area…well then the Kashmiris have every right to protest and resist.

    Peace.

  105. Adam D. says:
    @israel shamir

    That’s fine, it need not join Pakistan, they are after all their own distinct identity, utterly distinct from most of India,you avoid this angle. Then you really took some mental leaps to describe the Indian as the “bretheren” of the Kashmiri, how just how?

    An inconvenient fact is that many have chosen to join Pakistan, if there was any serious pro India sentiment you wouldn’t really need 1 million or however many troops in the valley would you?

    Now for someone who has built their reputation dissembling subtle propaganda and false narratives you seem to have gone awry here, so curious!

    If kashmiris wanted to join india there wouldn’t actually be an issue would there? India would have a plebiscite and Pakistani Kashmir would not exist because no one would want to be there.

    And if duress is coming from anywhere why is it not from the Indian occupying army?

    This response,and the crude grammar (paki vision, really?)and nonsense arguments actually doesn’t sound like the Israel shamir I have previously read.

    • Replies: @A.R.
    , @Malla
    , @whattheduck
  106. Adam D. says:
    @Herzog

    Strange comment really, dont we want muslims to be in their historical lands, rather than Europe as refugees, the invariable outcome of a conflict.

  107. Talha says:
    @Anonymous Snanonymous

    I can’t tell the difference between a Hindu and a Muslim of Pakistan…can you?

    Well, it depends what part of India or Pakistan or Bangladesh you are talking about. I often can’t tell the difference between a German, a Russian or a Danish person either (or a Japanese or Chinese or Korean without further inspection) so I don’t necessarily understand the point of taking the discussion this direction. The Indian subcontinent is potentially more diverse (ethno-linguistically) than Europe.

    Arabs

    The invasions of India were not done by Arabs for the most part, they were done by Persians or Persianized Turks or Persianized Mongols – Arabs only really went as far as Sindh.

    Now if you look at the Malabar coastline, then you do have some Arab influence from the Indian Ocean trade routes – some Arab Muslims settling there from Yemen and Oman and mixing with the locals – a bit like the Maldives.

    Peace.

  108. Talha says:
    @anon

    Today Hindu elite worships Israel and US

    They’re pretty chummy with other elites too:

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Mack the Knife
  109. anon[247] • Disclaimer says:
    @israel shamir

    I think the problem is the source that is Wikipedia .
    The other mistake on your part is to conflate the refutation of Indian position and action with support for Pakistan . Two can be different and India doesn’t try to keep it that way . Kashmir is not different from North Eastern Indian states who have sane secessionist tendencies and who also have same 370 article protection known as 371 .

    Indian BJP is no different than what one can expects from a region ruled by ISIS and incidentally both enjoy supports from Israel USA and Saudi .

  110. anon[247] • Disclaimer says:
    @anon

    Corrections- Wouldn’t have gone to India

  111. DB Cooper says:
    @Fiendly Neighbourhood Terrorist

    I never claim AFSPA is specific to Kashmir. AFSPA is used in most part of the northeast, including occupied South Tibet (so called Arunachal Pradesh). People in Kashmir and the northeast, for example Manipur definitely do not want to be part of India. India invaded and annexed their homeland shortly after its creation.

    Free South Tibet, the northeast and Kashmir from the shithole India.

  112. @Talha

    Come on..Modi has many faults, but he also does literally hug everyone…to show this as some sort affinity or “worship* of something or somebody is just disinformation. Chill pill.

    • Replies: @Talha
  113. Talha says:
    @Mack the Knife

    but he also does literally hug everyone

    I did not know this. Thanks.

    Peace.

  114. anon[247] • Disclaimer says:

    Over last 30 years since 1987, RSS has systematically murdered Muslims in northern states of India, – UP, Bihar , Haryana , and Maddhy Pradesh , western States if Gujrta Maharashtra and Rajshahan . It has made volatile passionate and divisive issues out of the predicament of Muslim women , past historical injustices against Hindus by Mughal , Muslim orchestrated partition , anti Indian activity by Muslim , preservation of personal laws by Muslim , Muslim avoidance of Hindu religious symbols and practices , and polygamy and lack of family planning .

    These issues have been distorted , magnified , selectively presented . These issues equally apply to Hindus but have been ignored , dismissed , or simply presented as patriotism .

    If the Nazi did a poor job in 25 years since 1920, BJP has done a very ‘ commendable ‘ job per Nazi standard .

    Mr Shamir , you can blame Pakistan as much as you want and you will be correct It is an equally racist arrogant and entitled minded country but how can you dismiss the nature of a thuggish philosophy embodied by RSS!!

  115. anon[130] • Disclaimer says:
    @Fidelios Automata

    https://www.hindustantimes.com/analysis/15-years-after-the-godhra-we-still-don-t-know-who-lit-the-fire/story-vkeZowN2nhvVkAJPZAPntN.html

    [MORE]

    But what is perhaps closest to the truth is the truly damning report of Mohinder Singh Dahiya, then assistant director of the Forensic Studies Laboratory (FSL) at Gandhinagar, Gujarat, which put paid to the theory of the coach being set afire by an angry mob, which had mysteriously collected outside the Godhra railway station. The report concluded that the coach was set afire by someone “standing in the passage of the compartment near seat number 72, using a container with a wide opening about 60 litres of inflammable liquid has been poured and then a fire has been started in the bogie.” Dahiya is a highly-qualified professional with a doctorate in forensic science and is currently the Director of the institute of forensic science and institute of behavioral science at the Gujarat Forensic Sciences University,set up by the Gujarat government.

    The FSL had also demonstrated by experiments that it was virtually impossible to throw inflammable liquids into the train through the open windows that are at a height of seven feet from the ground. The report also states that there was a three feet high mound running parallel to the track at a distance of 14 feet and if the fire bombers were standing on this mound and sloshing the fuel at the compartment only about 10-15% of the fuel would have got inside. Since the rest of the fuel would then have fallen outside there would have been burn damage on and near the track. This was not so.

    ile photographs of the burning coach show the flames raging from within and without even the external paintwork being touched. The pictures also show rescuers trying to hose down the flames standing right alongside the burning coach. Very obviously the coach was set afire from within.
    The train was chock-a-block full of kar sevaks and whosoever was carrying “a container with a wide opening holding about 60 liters of inflammable liquid” should have been able to mingle freely with the kar sevaks. If this is so, the person carrying such a container with a wide opening did so quite openly which means he, she or they would have been known to the other passengers. Remember the country was in a state of heightened military alert after the December 13 attack on Parliament and it would just not be possible for a stranger to walk into a crowded coach of true believers with a large container of liquid.
    The train was almost a Rambhakt special and each compartment was full of people from a particular area or belonging to a particular group within the Sangh parivar, all of who would have been known to each other. It is therefore extremely implausible that a perfect stranger or strangers would have been able to splash the petrol and set it alight and then escape. The killer/killers would have had to have been in the adjoining compartment or be able to alight quickly from the burning compartment without arousing suspicion. Furthermore, the train was stopped by pulling the emergency chain and that can only be from inside.

    Consequently the theory that it was an ISI cell or a group who boarded the train after it was stopped that had carried out the carnage becomes extremely difficult to sustain.
    It would now seem that the harassment and intimidation of the mostly Muslim hawkers at Godhra railway station was deliberate and aimed at provoking an agitated response. But petty harassment in itself would not have provoked such a disproportionate reaction as torching a train. It would seem that someone wished to take advantage of this reaction and if this was so, the torching of coach S6 could have been intended to provoke a furious backlash. This seems like a classic agent provocateur operation that went out of hand.
    ——————–

    The cookbook and the recipe are same every where whether the Trump phenomenon or righting lurch of Likud or metamorphosis of local terrorism of Muslim to international terrorism of Al Quida or to much sinister ISIS : its same. Even by BJP’s own history it is same cookbook . Advani was more shrill than was Bazpayee and Modi is thousands times more opportunistic and ruthless than Advani was . Modi will face his nemesis in someone who has to prove to be more ruthless to gain and consolidate power .

    The base is kept occupied happy and involved in continued mayhem across Northern and eastern India. This is the way a sense of community continuity and glimmer of hope is offered and entertained for those who have no other meaning in life other than what is offered by the genuine emotion which is pure hate.

  116. Pater says:
    @anon19

    To the best of my knowledge never. As they say, “The house of Allah has a roof of swords”.

  117. @Adam D.

    i too was hoping to read on the fascinating dallits. Mr. Israel, thank you in advance if you would shed some light.

  118. A.R. says:
    @Adam D.

    Yeah, I am also somewhat surprised by his choice of words here. It almost seems like mr. Shamir is emotionally invested in this to a degree that it affects his civility.
    Normally I would not expect to see repeated references to “Pakis” and other demeaning generalizations from him.

  119. @DB Cooper

    How are things going in Hong Kong? Do you think China will break up anytime soon? Keep us posted.

    • Replies: @anon
  120. anon[247] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous Snanonymous

    China will not break up . India might . India can break up from the internal developments . But most likely will break up when the price is right and is approached with the best language the neoliberalism can buy .

    Kashmir’s last ruler Dogra betrayed the non Hindu Sikh king , to the then powerful and new master in town , the British . That is typical of Indian upper caste Hindu behavior . That’s the story behind the Sudhra kingdom of Sindh by the Brahmin ministers . That which King Harsha faces and destroyed . That what was the reason of the success of Mohamed Ghori against Prthiraj of Delhi .

    1749 -Bengal Orissa Assam kingdom was sold to British by the upper caste Hindu business people.

    1957 rebellion was actively opposed by Brahmin and upper caste rulers of large kingdom of Maharashtra.
    Indian independence movement was actively sabotaged by RSS.

    If tomorrow price is right , the upper caste will sale the country again , even to China .

    • Replies: @anon
    , @Malla
    , @Malla
    , @Malla
  121. Blah, blah, blah… get a life, loser!

    • Replies: @anon
  122. anon[247] • Disclaimer says:
    @anon

    Go and edit Wikipedia .

  123. anon[247] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous Snanonymous

    Go and edit Wikipedia .

  124. Malla says:
    @anon

    On the other hand, the Independence movement was dominated by the upper castes. Most lower caste people wanted the Brits to stay as a balance against the upper castes.

  125. Malla says:

    30% of British India were princely States where the British did not have direct rule, the Kings (Hindus, muslims, Buddhists etc) were semi independent and swore allegiance to the King Emperor of India (the British monarch was also Emperor of India). many of these states had their own currency, railways etc….
    During the independence of India, the British government gave the Princely states the option of joining India, joining Pakistan or remaining Independent. Very fair. But both India and Pakistan started arm twisting the various princely states to join their team. There was a huge princely state called Osmania in South India, they even had their own railways. Osmania/Hyderabad was ruled by the Nizams. The population was majority Hindu but the rulers were Muslim. According to the rights given by the British government, the Nizam was free to choose as they wish. The Nizam chose Pakistan but against the rules agreed by all parties, India invaded Hyderabad state and absorbed it in India. The same thing happened with Junnagad in Gujrat. A Muslim ruler of a majority Hindu state chose Pakistan and the Indian army moved in (against their lawfull right) and absorbed Junnagad.
    Well Kashmir was the exact opposite case, a Hindu King of a Muslim majority state decided to join India. And hence the Pakistanis said well Indian illegally conquered Hyderabad and Junnagad, we have the right to Kashmir. That is when they sent in irregulars into Kashmir. Why irregulars and not the Pakistani Army. The British elite were on the side of India. The Royal Indian Army or the British Indian Army was to be divided in between Indian Army and Pakistan Army. The Brits smartly called back the Hindu forces back from the corners of the Empire before the Muslim divisions, thus during this period, India had command of an Army and Pakistanis not so much as the Muslim divisions of the British Indian Army was still stationed at the various corners of the British Empire (Middle East, Africa). Since the Hindu and Sikh regiments had already come back, India had a much more effective army than Pakistan at this crucial moment.
    Besides India has refused to hold a plebiscite as mandated by the UN in Kashmir as they know that most Kashmiris would either chose independence or unity with Pakistan.

    • Replies: @Malla
  126. Malla says:
    @Malla

    However the only good thing out of this move by the Indian government is that Ladakh has become a separate Union Territory out of the State of Jammu & Kashmir. The Ladakhis are nice Tibetan stock Buddhist and have nothing to do with the Hindu Muslim barbarians in the rest of the state. Good for them to have separated out.

  127. Malla says:

    The Muslims of Indian Kashmir are mainly of the first kind; the Muslims of the Western Kashmir are mainly of the second kind. They are descendants of the invaders who came from Afghanistan.

    Mr Shamir, that is a BIG LIE. The Kashmiri Muslims are mostly native Kashmiris who converted to Islam.

    • Replies: @Adam D.
  128. Malla says:
    @anon

    behind the rise of pro Nazi like Hinduvata

    Do not compare Hinduvadi crackpots with National Socialists in Germany. The German National Socialists were intellectually far far superior than these low IQ Hinduvadi barbarians.

  129. Adam D. says:
    @Malla

    It’s a bizzare comment to be apparently attached to the name of Israel shamir, would he reveal his source for this insight?

    The author, whoever that is, probably assumed this corner of the internet is maybe ignorant enough on the subject, or sympathetic enough to anti Muslim causes ,to slip in some lies. Now one, two or half a dozen not so bad, but literally a whole article sounding like it came from RSS hq? The actual Israel shamir would surely be more intelligent and thoughtful, he would certainly not use partisan racial slurs with his “paki” references when it makes no sense, as well as just sounding crude and coarse.

    Maybe an RSS idiot did write it after all?

    • Replies: @Malla
  130. Imtyrone says:

    India gets away with far more in Kashmir than Israel does in the occupied territories. The Indian forces, IE rapists in uniform, can freely massacre, rape, and pillage at will with virtually no fear of consequences. There have been numerous attempts to bring these cases to court but to no avail. The Kashmiris have every right to become an independent sovereign nation than join the hindutva fanatic shithole that is India. A state where human degradation is normalized and where cows live better than many humans.

    Let us not romanticize India. It is the armpit of the world filled with some of the vilest people you could hope to meet.

  131. DB Cooper says:

    “Let us not romanticize India.”

    Thats the problem. And the MSM is complicited in it.

  132. Malla says:
    @Adam D.

    Maybe an RSS idiot did write it after all?

    Looks like it. Hinduvadi idiots have the strange habit of writing stuff on the internet using Japanese, Russian, German and Anglo names.

  133. Malla says:
    @DB Cooper

    The Western MSM have been pro-Indian even before Indian Independence. Ambedkar, the writer of the Indian constitution, had remarked once that the not only was the Indian media (owned by Baniyas or mercantile Hindus) in British India pro-Congress (as against the British Indian Govt and other non Congress Indian groups including Muslim League) the British media was pro-Congress too (as against the British Indian Govt and other non Congress Indian groups including Muslim League)!!

  134. Malla says:

    The Hinduvadis are getting excited about marrying fairer skined, more Caucasian looking Kashmiri women. A Hinduvadi Chief Minister of a State has joked that now their men could get brides from Kashmir after the scrapping of Article 370.

    https://www.dtnext.in/News/National/2019/08/10172036/1170929/Now-people-can-bring-brides-from-Kashmir-Haryana-CM-.vpf

    “Haryana Chief Minister Manohar Lal Khattar has courted a controversy with his remarks that people of Haryana are saying that they “can now get brides from Kashmir”, apparently in a reference to the scrapping of the special status for Jammu and Kashmir under Article 370 of the Constitution.

    “There can be problems if the number of girls are lesser than boys. Our (O P) Dhankarji had said that they (brides) will have to be brought from Bihar. Now some people say, Kashmir is open, they (brides) will be brought from there. But jokes apart, the question is if (sex) ratio is right, then there will be a right balance in society,” Khattar said at an event at Fatehabad on Friday.

    …snip….

    Shows what years of RSS training does to mind of ‘weak man’: Rahul Gandhi
    Outgoing Congress President Rahul Gandhi on Saturday described Haryana Chief Minister Manohar Lal Khattar’s remarks on Kashmiri women as “despicable”, saying that it reflected what years of RSS training does to the mind of an insecure man.

    “Haryana Chief Minister Khattar’s comment on Kashmiri women is despicable and shows what years of RSS training does to the mind of a weak, insecure and pathetic man. Women are not assets to be owned by men,” Gandhi tweeted.

    “Earlier ‘bahus’ [brides] used to come from Bihar but now we will bring girls from Kashmir,” he added.

    The comment has triggered widespread controversy.

    …snip….

    Women Commissions demand explanation
    National Commission for Women chairperson Rekha Sharma said she will seek an explanation from the Haryana chief minister.

    Meanwhile, the Delhi Commission for Women (DCW) on Saturday demanded that an FIR be registered against the Haryana chief minister for the objectionable remarks.

    In the past, Khattar had stoked a controversy over remarks on rape and eve-teasing incidents.

    At a function in Kalka town of Panchkula district in 2018, Khattar had said, “The incidents of rape have not increased… Rapes used to take place in the past and even today as well. (Only) the concern (over such incidents) has increased. ”

    Rape of North East and Kashmiri women by Indian troops who hail from the mainland states is very common. Because the women in these places are on average more attractive then in the rest of India.

  135. Malla says:

    India the hypocritical nation runs around screaming and braying about ‘evul Bratish rule’ but herself acts as a far more brutal imperialist.

    Sir Alan Burns writes in his book
    BTW Nehru= Indian freedom fighter from British rule and first Prime Minister of India.

    THE INDIAN ATTITUDE
    Among the most severe critics of ‘colonialism’ are the representatives of India, who maintain that they speak with recent experience of colonial status and can therefore understand better than others the disadvantages from which dependent peoples suffer. Indians tend to regard themselves as champions of the under-developed countries and are opposed to ‘colonialism’, and in pursuing this line seem to lecture other countries rather than offer constructive criticisms. India’s own conduct since she gained her independence does not perhaps altogether entitle her to criticize the ‘imperialist’ attitude of the older colonial Powers. An American writer considers India’s performance as ‘inconsistent behaviour for an outstanding champion of self-determination and anti-imperialism’.

    ….snip….

    It should not be forgotten that India also has groups of inhabitants which, under the definition used by the Indians might fairly be regarded as ‘colonial peoples’. There are, for example the Nagas and other ‘Scheduled Tribes’ which in all include over twenty million persons.
    …snip….

    In 1949 the Naga people appealed to the United Nations for protection from Indian invasion. The Appeal stated that ‘during the British Rule in India there was no outside interference in any way in the form of our existence and in the system of our administration which was entirely managed by our people’.
    And again:
    ‘The real fact about our relations with India is that she was unknown to us until the other day, when the British withdrew from our border. We can understand that India is badly in want of land…but at the same time we do not consider that our freedom, the smallness of our country and its geographical contiguity with India’s border constitute an obligation on our part to submit our independence and the means of our existence in favour of her landless and starving millions’

    …snip…

    In March, 1952, a delegation from the Naga National Council appealed to Mr. Nehru to allow the Nagas to form a separate sovereign State, but the answer was that the demand was ‘completely unwise, impractical and in-acceptable'(2)
    …snip…

    It is reported that in July 1955 India had appealed to Burma for help in crushing the Naga headhunters, who have established their own republic on the border between the two countries. Indian troops and policemen have been authorized to shoot to kill in their campaign against the headhunters (3), and there has been severe fighting. In March 1956 it was officially reported that fifteen Nagas had been killed in clashed with Indian troops (4). The Nagas maintain that they are fighting if their independence.

    (2) – Hindustan Times of 12th July, 1952
    (3) – The New York Times of 26th July, 1955
    (4) – The Times of 22nd March, 1956. A Naga member of the Central Indian Parliament recently stated that the troops sent to quell the uprising have burned four fifths of the Naga villages and have treated the rebels with excessive severity.

    • Replies: @Malla
  136. Malla says:
    @Malla

    Further we see that India does not have a history of honouring plebiscites. The much famed biggest democracy in the World does not have an easy relationship with plebiscites and referendums.

    From Sir Alan Burns

    “Moreover, in 1948 France agreed to let the inhabitants of her small possessions in India settle their own fate by a referendum and Chandan-Nagore went peacefully to India in this way. In other settlements other methods were employed. Forces favouring union with India seized the French Indian territory of Yanam on the 14th June, 1954, and a month later France gave up the French Indian territory of Mahe ‘to avoid grave incidents.’ In 1951 the elections in the territory of Pondicherry for the Representative Assembly returned a majority for the Socialist Party which advocated continued affiliation with France but Indians contended that the electoral victory was engineered and that the results did not truly represent popular will. Mr. Nehru then announced that as a plebiscite would be similarly conducted he could not agree to the fate of Pondicherry being settled in that fashion. As the French constitution forbids the the transfer of French territory without a referendum, deadlock would have ensued had not the Socialist Party changed its mind and advocated union with India.”

  137. Israel Shamir is still too cowardly to take me on in a debate. I’ve challenged him repeatedly and he has no answer, let this be a big black blot on his credibility as a pundit and writer.

    I’m just gonna re-paste the debunking of the 1 excuse India uses to try and justify its 70+ yrs of occupation, rape, torture, pellet-guns and detentions without trial of Kashmiris:

    [MORE]

    ‘The formal overt Indian intervention in the internal affairs of the State of Jammu & Kashmir began on about 9.00 a.m. on 27 October 1947, when Indian troops started landing at Srinagar airfield. India has officially dated the commencement of its claim that the State was part of Indian sovereign territory to a few hours earlier, at some point in the afternoon or evening of 26 October. From their arrival on 27 October 1947 to the present day, Indian troops have continued to occupy a large proportion of the State of Jammu & Kashmir despite the increasingly manifest opposition of a majority of the population to their presence. To critics of India’s position and actions in the State of Jammu & Kashmir the Government of New Delhi has consistently declared that the State of Jammu & Kashmir lies entirely within the sphere of internal Indian policy. Do the facts support the Indian contention in this respect?

    The State of Jammu & Kashmir was a Princely State within the British Indian Empire. By the rules of the British transfer of power in Indian subcontinent in 1947 the Ruler of the State, Maharajah Sir Hari Singh, with the departure of the British and the lapsing of Paramountcy (as the relationship between State and British Crown was termed), could opt to join either India or Pakistan or, by doing nothing, become from 15 August 1947 the Ruler of an independent polity. The choice was the Ruler’s and his alone: there was no provision for popular consultation in the Indian Princely States during the final days of the British Raj. On 15th August 1947, by default, the State of Jammu & Kashmir became independent.

    India maintains that this period of independence, the existence of which it has never challenged effectively, came to an end on 26/27 October as the result of two pairs of closely related transactions which we must now examine. They are: a) an Instrument of Accession of Jammu & Kashmir to India which the Maharajah is alleged to have signed on 26 October 1947, and; b) the acceptance of this Instrument by the Governor-General of India, Lord Mountbatten, on 27 October 1947; plus c) a letter from the Maharajah to Lord Mountbatten, dated 26 October 1947, in which Indian military aid is sought in return for accession to India (on terms stated in an allegedly enclosed Instrument) and the appointment of Sheikh Abdullah to head an Interim Government of the State; and d) a letter from Lord Mountbatten to the Maharajah, dated 27 October 1947, acknowledging the above and noting that, once the affairs of the State have been settled and law and order is restored, “the question of the State’s accession should be settled by a reference to the people.” In both pairs of documents it will be noted that the date of the communication from the Maharajah, be it the alleged Instrument of Accession or the letter to Lord Mountbatten, is given as 26 October 1947, that is to say before the Indian troops actually began overtly to intervene in the State’s affairs on the morning of 27 October 1947. It has been said that Lord Mountbatten insisted on the Maharajah’s signature as a precondition for his approval of Indian intervention in the affairs of what would otherwise be an independent State.

    The date, 26 October 1947, has hitherto been accepted as true by virtually all observers, be they sympathetic or hostile to the Indian case. It is to be found in an official communication by Lord Mountbatten, as Governor General of India, to M.A. Jinnah, Governor General of Pakistan, on 1 November 1947; and it is repeated in the White paper on Jammu & Kashmir which the Government of India laid before the Indian Parliament in March 1948. Pakistani diplomats have never challenged it. Recent research, however, has demonstrated beyond a shadow of a doubt that the date is false. This fact emerges from the archives, and it is also quite clear from such sources as the memoirs of the Prime Minister of Jammu & Kashmir at the time, Mehr Chand Mahajan, and the recently published correspondence of Jawaharlal Nehru, the Indian Prime Minister. Circumstantial accounts of the events of 26 October 1947, notably that of V.P. Menon (in his The Integration of the Indian States, London 1956), who said he was actually present when the Maharajah signed, are simply not true.

    It is now absolutely clear that the two documents (a) the Instrument of Accession, and (c) the letter to Lord Mountbatten, could not possibly have been signed by the Maharajah of Jammu & Kashmir on 26 October 1947. The earliest possible time and date for their signature would have to be the afternoon of 27 October 1947. During 26 October 1947 the Maharajah of Jammu & Kashmir was travelling by road from Srinagar to Jammu. His Prime Minister, M.C. Mahajan, who was negotiating with the Government of India, and the senior Indian official concerned in State matters, V.P. Menon, were still in New Delhi where they remained overnight, and where their presence was noted by many observers. There was no communication of any sort between New Delhi and the traveling Maharajah. Menon and Mahajan set out by air from New Delhi to Jammu at about 10.00 a.m. on 27 October; and the Maharajah learned from them for the first time the result of his Prime Minister’s negotiations in New Delhi in the early afternoon of that day. The key point, of course, as has already been noted above, is that it is now obvious that these documents could only have been signed after the overt Indian intervention in the State of Jammu & Kashmir. When the Indian troops arrived at Srinagar air field, that State was still independent. Any agreements favourable to India signed after such intervention cannot escape the charge of having been produced under duress. It was, one presumes, to escape just such a charge that the false date 26 October 1947 was assigned to these two documents. The deliberately distorted account of that very senior Indian official, V.P. Menon, to which reference has already been made, was no doubt executed for the same end. Falsification of such a fundamental element as date of signature, however, once established, can only cast grave doubt over the validity of the document as a whole.

    An examination of the transactions behind these four documents in the light of the new evidence produces a number of other serious doubts. It is clear, for example, that in the case of (c) and (d), the exchange of letters between the Maharajah and Lord Mountbatten’s reply must antedate the letter to which it is an answer unless, as seems more than probable, both were drafted by the Government of India before being taken up to Jammu on 27 October 1947 (by V.P. Menon and Jammu & Kashmir Prime Minister M.C. Mahajan, whose movements, incidentally, are correctly reported in the London Times of 28 October 1947) after the arrival of the Indian troops at Srinagar airfield. The case is very strong, therefore, that document (c), the Maharajah’s letter to Lord Mountbatten, was dictated to the Maharajah.

    Documents (c) and (d) were published by the Government of India on 28 October 1947. The far more important document (a), the alleged Instrument of Accession, was not published until many years later, if at all. It was not communicated to Pakistan at the outset of the overt Indian intervention in the State of Jammu & Kashmir, nor was it presented in facsimile to the United Nations in early 1948 as part of the initial Indian reference to the Security Council. The 1948 White Paper in which the Government of India set out its formal case in respect to the State of Jammu & Kashmir, does not contain the Instrument of Accession as claimed to have been signed by the Maharajah: instead, it reproduces an unsigned form of Accession such as, it is implied, the Maharajah might have signed. To date no satisfactory original of this Instrument as signed by the Maharajah has been produced: though a highly suspect version, complete with the false date 26 October 1947, has been circulated by the Indian side since the 1960s. On the present evidence it is by no means clear that the Maharaja ever did sign an Instrument of Accession. There are, indeed, grounds for suspecting that he did no such thing.

    The Instrument of Accession referred to in document (c), a letter which as we have seen was probably drafted by Indian officials prior to being shown to the Maharajah, may never have existed, and can hardly have existed when the letter was being prepared. Even if there had been an Instrument of Accession, then if it followed the form indicated in the unsigned example of such an Instrument published in the Indian 1948 White Paper it would have been extremely restrictive in the rights conferred upon the Government of India. All that were in fact transferred from the State to the Government of India by such an Instrument were the powers over Defence, Foreign Relations and certain aspects of Communications. Virtually all else was left with the State Government. Thanks to Article 370 of the Indian Constitution of January 1950 (which, unlike much else relating to the former Princely States, has survived to some significant degree in current Indian constitution theory, if not in practice), the State of Jammu & Kashmir was accorded a degree of autonomy which does not sit at all comfortably with the current authoritarian Indian administration of those parts of the State which it holds. Not only would such an Instrument have been restrictive, but also by virtue of the provisions, of (d), Lord Mountbatten’s letter to the Maharajah dated 27 October 1947, it would have been conditional. Lord Mountbatten, as Governor-General of India, made it clear that the State of Jammu & Kashmir would only be incorporated permanently within the Indian fold after approval as a result of some form of reference to the people, a procedure which soon (with United Nations participation) became defined as a fair and free plebiscite. India has never permitted such a reference to the people to be made.

    Why would the Maharajah of Jammu & Kashmir not have signed an Instrument of Accession? The answer lies in the complex course of events of August, September and October 1947 out of which the Kashmir crisis of 26/27 October 1947 emerged. The Maharajah, confronted with growing internal disorder (including a full scale rebellion in the Poonch region of the State), sought Indian military help without, if at all possible, surrendering his own independence. The Government of India delayed assisting him in the hope that in despair he would accede to India before any Indian actions had to be taken. In the event, India had to move first. Having secured what he wanted, Indian military assistance, the Maharajah would naturally have wished to avoid paying the price of the surrender of his independence by signing any Instrument which he could possibly avoid signing. From the afternoon of 27 October 1947 onwards a smoke screen conceals both the details and the immediate outcome of this struggle of wills between the Government of India and the Maharajah of Jammu & Kashmir. To judge from the 1948 White Paper an Instrument of Accession may not have been signed by March 1948, by which time the Indian case for sovereignty over Jammu & Kashmir was already being argued before the United Nations.

    The patently false dates of documents (a) and (c) alter fundamentally the nature of the overt Indian intervention in Jammu & Kashmir on 27 October 1947. India was not defending its own but intervening in a foreign State. There can be no reasonable doubt that had Pakistan been aware of this falsification of the record it would have argued very differently in international fora from the outset of the dispute; and had the United Nations understood the true chronology it would have listened with for less sympathy to arguments presented to it by successive Indian representatives. Given the facts as they are now known, it may well be that an impartial international tribunal would decide that India had no right at all to be in the State of Jammu & Kashmir’

    http://www.mofa.gov.pk/documents/related/Myth.pdf

    by Alistair Lamb, ‘THE INDIAN CLAIM TO JAMMU & KASHMIR A REAPPRAISAL’

    British historian by the way, not ‘Islamist’.

    • Replies: @Malla
    , @Malla
  138. ‘How does India suppress Muslims’

    By being ruled by literal Hindu extremists many of whose public office holders have, out in the open, 1) declared Muslims aren’t true Indians, 2) said Muslim women’s corpses should be raped, 3) claimed Hindu girls falling in love with Muslim boys is a ‘Love Jihad’ seeking to take over India (and this crap is literally part of normal everyday discourse in Indian media), 4) organizing massacres of Muslims now and then.

    1968
    1969
    1983
    1992
    2002
    2013

    These are all the years which saw communal mass-slaughters, with casualties in the thousands, hundreds or high tens of Indian Muslims by the RSS and/or other parties part of the extremist ‘Sangh Parivar’ group of Hindutva organizations.

    Pakistan – and this is not even remotely up for debate – has never been governed by religious nutcases. They’re a fringe in Pakistan OR they’re at war with the state.

    India’s extremists rule India.

  139. I wonder why “paki” is a “racial slur”? In Afghanistan – Afghanis, in Uzbekistan – Uzbeks, in Tatarstan – Tatars. If a country is Pakistan, its dwellers are Pakis, what’s the slur?

    • Replies: @Hussain Agha
    , @anon
    , @Adam D.
  140. @israel shamir

    Hey coward, you still evading the debate? In fact I myself am looking dumb now using that term. This is basically just Israel Shamir projecting his biases toward an issue he knows diddly squat about while he gets absolutely shredded in the comments.

    Everyone do read my passages on the ‘Instrument of Accession’ myth. Israel Shamir is a third rate propagandist.

  141. anon[390] • Disclaimer says:
    @israel shamir

    Because it is Pakistani not Paki . I think you lost it here by publishing a very shallow commentary on the reality . Don’t dig the hole . You are already deep down and don’t ever refer to Wikipedia unless it is something about old extinct civilization or science . No body fights over those and they stay bias free .

  142. Malla says:
    @Talha

    But what if India decides to get more of their oil from their Zionist soul brother USA, in case of a oil embargo?

    https://www.livemint.com/news/india/filling-iran-oil-gap-in-india-us-supplies-outshine-middle-east-crude-1561375226730.html

    Filling Iran oil gap in India: US supplies outshine Middle East crude

    India bought about 184,000 barrels per day oil from US over Nov 2018 to May 2019, compared with about 40,000 bpd in the year-ago period.
    ….snip….

    A surge in India’s oil imports from the United States outpaced growth in shipments from its traditional suppliers in the Middle East, after Washington imposed sanctions on Tehran in November, according to tanker arrival data obtained from sources.

    And Russia is very likely to become a major supplier in the future.

    https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/economy/looking-at-ways-to-bring-russian-crude-into-india-pradhan/article28076618.ece
    Looking at ways to bring Russian crude oil into India: Pradhan
    June 2019

    “We are looking at means to bring Russian crude to India and further the investment partnerships. Russia has already invested in India through Nayara Energy,” Indian Minister for Petroleum and Natural Gas, Dharmendra Pradhan told BusinessLine.

    …snip….

    Indian consortium of public sector undertaking companies have invested in Vankorneft and Taas-Yuryakh in Russia. Russian companies invested in India through the acquisition Essar Oil (now Nayara energy).

    What is strange is that I actually own shares of this Nayara Energy!! I had bought shares of an Indian company called Essar Oil belonging to the huge Indian Corporate Essar Group long time back. I get a letter a few months back that it is now Nayara Technology. On research it comes out that Essar Oil went bust and had been bought by a Russian Company.

    • Replies: @Talha
  143. Adam D. says:
    @israel shamir

    That’s your glib response?

    So you are saying you indeed know and understand it to be an offensive word, you just dont consider it worthy of any due.

    The point is ofcourse not that anyone is taking offense, obviously, it’s that you chose to adopt the word to begin with knowing it’s a slur, and why you (or whoever) would chose to use emotive partisan language.

    By the way, its shortened to Afgans not Afghanis; your almost native expertise seems to have some basic holes!

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  144. Malla says:
    @Hussain Agha

    I am not surprised. There was a independent kingdom in the North East of India (I do not remember which now) and after the British left, they wanted to remain independent. They had not even joined India. The Indian Government snakes invited the King for some negotiations. But as the King came, the Indians locked him up and forced him at gunpoint to sign a Instrument of Accession of his kingdom into India!!

    India also back-stabbed the Buddhist King/Chongyal of Sikkim and took over his kingdom. The Hindu King of Nepal had intimated to the King of Sikkim that India was planning a military intervention. The Sikkimese King did not believe this as he was a honorary General (or some other title) in the Indian Army. But he got backstabbed by Indira Gandhi and his Kingdom was absorbed into India. Many in Bhutan and even Hindu majority Nepal fear a Sikkimese backstab incident by the Indian government of their nations. That is why PM Oli of Nepal is running into the arms of China lately.

    • Replies: @DB Cooper
  145. Malla says:
    @anon

    1957 rebellion was actively opposed by Brahmin and upper caste rulers of large kingdom of Maharashtra.

    You mean the 1857 mutiny right? You remember that Tantia Tope was a Brahmin right? Mangal Pandey was a Bihari Brahmin right?
    Brahmins were very much behind the 1857 mutiny. And Muslims wanted to bring back Mughal Raj.

    • Replies: @anon
  146. Talha says:
    @Malla

    But what if India decides to get more of their oil from their Zionist soul brother USA, in case of a oil embargo?

    That’s fine – at least the Muslim nations wouldn’t be complicit. Plus it would raise their costs quite a bit to get it shipped from around the world. Even Russia would have to ship it in from the Black Sea through the Mediterranean through the Suez (which cannot legally bar ships from passage even from enemies) if the Muslim nations refused to let the oil through (I doubt China would let it through).

    That would probably be in India’s interests – once she is a full client of the USA and Israel, there were hardly be a peep in the news as far as humanitarian concerns or moves in the UN Security Council (also since she will be a client state of Russia and with China being the odd man out).

    I do not blame the Hindutva government for anything it is doing – I expect nothing less from them. I do expect the Muslim world to get its act in gear and respond accordingly.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Malla
  147. Malla says:
    @Talha

    Yes it will increase costs of transport. However the oil from Russia may come via Siberia via Vladivostok maybe and PR China maybe in a position to stop India’s fuel supply in case of hostilities just like PR China is scared of USA and India doing the same in the Indian Ocean. That is once of the reason fueling China’s CPEC transport line to Gwador. They may even count on the Pakistani Navy if India makes any such moves in the Indian ocean region.

    But I doubt PR China would take such a move where Russia is involved. Russia is their ally and they would not want to come in their way. And even if their alliance were to break, Russia is no Saudi Arabia or Kuwait. It is a serious military power, PR China would not likely take such a step. And maybe India’s ally Japan could help out in such situations. Japan has a serious navy.
    After all the USA is building a US-Japan-India-Australia-Vietnam naval alliance against PR China.

    • Replies: @Talha
  148. Malla says:
    @Adam D.

    India would have a plebiscite and Pakistani Kashmir would not exist because no one would want to be there.

    LOL India did not accept the plebiscite option with a major European power like France. What chance the Indian government will with Kashmiris? Check out post 144 on this page. Its never gonna happen.

    • Replies: @Talha
  149. Talha says:
    @Malla

    I remember something similar with India regarding the Portuguese in Goa, correct?

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Malla
  150. Malla says:
    @Hussain Agha

    BTW are you aware of this.
    The Mountbattens were originally German Battenburgs who were known to be partly Jewish in European aristocratic circles and Lord Mountbatten’s wife, Edwina Mountbatten was a confirmed Jewess.

    In 1851, Alexander, son of the Grand Duke of Hesse a family close to the Rothschilds contracted a morganatic marriage with the daughter of a wealthy Polish Jewish commoner who had grown rich as a supplier of arms to the war ministry. Since she had been baptized a Christian, the family permitted the marriage, and revived an old family title for Alexander and his Jewess. The title was the Count of Battenburg. This was the beginning of the new Battenburg line. The earlier original Battenberg line was the name of a family of German counts, which died out about 1314, whose seat was the castle of Kellerburg, near Battenberg, in Hesse.
    The Hesse family later , made Alexander Prince of Battenburg (new Battenburg line not related to the original German aristocratic Battenberg line), and his eldest son by his Jewish wife was Prince Louis of Battenburg. Prince Louis went to England to join Queen Victoria’s Court, where he became an Admiral of the British Navy and a personal friend of King Edward VII.

    During World War I, he decided to disown the German side and changed his name to Mountbatten, and he also received an English title, Marques of Milford Haven. Prince Louis, second son (the grandchild o f the Polish Jewess) was the Admiral Louis Mountbatten, last Viceroy of India (who handed British India over to Indian & Pakistani rule). He was also been a close life long friend of several socialites & Fabian Socialists, a great “democrat,” & a very close friend of Churchill.
    In 1921 Lord Mountbatten fell in love with Edwina Ashley, the granddaughter of Sir Ernest Cassel, the Jewish banker of German Jewish origin from Cologne and after marriage she became Edwina Mountbatten.

    The Jewish Mountbattens with Kashmiri Brahmin Jawaharlal Nehru

  151. Talha says:
    @Malla

    Well, I’m certainly not hoping for a full-fledged war; that would be massively damaging to both India and anyone else involved. Hopefully this can be resolved through economic or diplomatic pressure.

    That is once of the reason fueling China’s CPEC transport line to Gwador.

    No doubt. And if a serious fight came out of the situation, I wouldn’t be surprised if China jumped into to expand its buffer zone along its border in the mountains with India to protect that passage way.

    As far as Japan, it’s got the same problem India does…
    The problem with the Muslim world is that it has some very serious hardware, but it’s allocated all incorrectly. The armies are all facing each other. I mean look at Saudi’s air force, it’s massive and fairly modern and is currently being used to bomb Yemenis into starvation.

    If you’ve ever played the game “Risk”, you would never put a massive air force in your middle territories (I mean, why the hell does the UAE have an air force half the size of Turkey’s), you would have them placed at your frontier territories and only have a few local garrisons in the center. India is too massive for any one Muslim country to pressure alone (Pakistan can only realistically play the role of containment), it has to be the OIC that acts, diplomatically or otherwise.

    Of course, if there was a will to do it (I don’t know anymore since the whole Daesh Frankenstein fiasco), pressure could be accomplished via irregular means. There is a land bridge from the Caucasus and Central Asia right through to Kashmir. As I said in another thread; give me 5,000 Chechens backed by twice that number of Uzbeks as the backbone of an insurgency in Kashmir and I will guarantee you they will put the fear of God in the Indian military and photos of burning tank hulls will become routine news coming out of that area and India might think of re-negotiating its position.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @anon
    , @Malla
  152. anon[354] • Disclaimer says:
    @Malla

    Mughal was invited to lead by the leaders of the various North Indian states . Mughal king was not interested . It was foisted on him . He was in his 70s already .

    • Replies: @Malla
  153. Malla says:
    @Talha

    In Goa there was no plebiscite, it was direct annexation. Portuguese Goa had a higher standard of living than India and the difference in between poor and rich was much lower than in India.
    Even today as an Indian state has the highest per capita income.
    But the Indians took over Congress party goons took over the mining in the state and we had a mining mafia in Goa. Goa is rich in minerals.

    The situation began to come to a head in 1955 when a group of Goanese and Indian “protesters” staged a ‘liberation march’ in Goa and more than 20 of them were shot and killed. Basically people funded by the Indian government to sneak into Goa and cause trouble. An old Indian trick. Similar approach was used against the Himalayan Kingdom of Sikkim before the Indian Government conquered and absorbed it.

    There is an entire website about this.
    http://goa-invasion-1961.blogspot.in/2013/09/india-pirated-goa-china-is-regaining_16.html
    https://goa-invasion-1961.blogspot.com/2014/09/the-history-of-goan-invasion-by-indians.html
    as well as this
    https://www.ruleoflaw.org.au/the-annexation-of-goa/

    The truth be told, behind the scenes India had the support of both the USA and the USSR. India somehow tends to get both American as well as Soviet/Russian Fed support most of the times. It is like magic.
    Both the USA and USSR hated the conservative right winged Catholic Estado Novo Government of Portugal of António Salazar and wanted to put some pressure on it. They finally got rid of the regime in the Carnation Revolution most probably funded by the Globalists in 1974 after Salazar died. The Portuguese ambassador in London reminded the British government that under the terms of the Anglo-Portuguese alliance of 1899 it was obliged to come to Portugal’s assistance if any Portuguese colony was attacked. But of course Britain did not help Portugal.

    • Replies: @Talha
  154. anon[354] • Disclaimer says:
    @Talha

    India is on a path of historical ‘ correction ‘

    Buddhism was removed by the similar popular sentiment some 1400 years ago . India was purged of that intrinsic Indian invention by the ruthless manipulation of Brahmin and Khaiyryia.

    India plans to do same to Muslim . Will it succeed ?
    If Houthi could take on UAE and Saudi , if Hamas could survive , if Taliban with no support or may be some Pakistani support can force USA , Kashmiri can also . Kashmir Muslim was never joined by non Kashmiri Indian Muslim . But that also might change . 17 years history of constant state initiated violence again Muslim of Northern India has definitely alienated them and has left them with not much to lose anymore .

    • Replies: @Malla
  155. Malla says:
    @anon

    Mughal king was not interested

    Not King, he was officially our Emperor. Yes you are right, it was foisted upon him. He was just a titular head for the sepoys. The rowdy sepoys also ill treated the Imperial princes.

  156. Malla says:
    @Talha

    The armies are all facing each other.

    There is no unity.

    why the hell does the UAE have an air force half the size of Turkey’s

    Weapons are a big business. Also the UAE is rich and maybe the object of desire of some powerful state. Like how Saddam tried to make Kuwait a part of Iraq.

    The biggest problem is that most of the leaders of the Islamic world are sold out to the Zio Globalist elites up to some extent. Definitely the Saudis and the Gulf Arabs, they had sold out ages ago, and the Sauds maybe cryptos. There is also a lot of Israeli infiltration into Islamic governments and Islamic groups.
    All those Arab looking Mizrahi Jews from Arab countries come very handy.
    https://www.timesofisrael.com/how-israel-welcomed-jews-from-arab-lands-as-spies/

    There was also one case where a bunch of Israeli agents lived as normal Arabs and even married Arab women, their wives never realised that they were agents, only when these Israeli men met each other did they talk about their assignments. No Arab in the locality realised that they were Israelis.

    No wonder in some cases like in Iraq, Israel (in cooperation with some corrupt local elites) actually did some false flag attacks on Synagogues to scare the local Jews to migrate to Israel. You had these Mizrahi Jews, most of them very prosperous in many Arab countries now living as refugees in tents in Israel. And in those days there was a lot of discrimination against them from the European Ashkenazi Jews who did not like their ‘barbaric’ ways but now a days there has been heavy inter marriage among them.

    So the Israelis themselves attacked the synagogues in Iraq to scare the Jews there. What is with these Jews attacking synagogues? Even in the West we see Jews draw Swastikas on synagogues and then scream about imaginary Nazi boogeymen.

    give me 5,000 Chechens

    Chechens are some heavy fighters, no doubt. Most of the warring in Syria are being done by Chechens. They are the toughest guys there.

    number of Uzbeks as

    Uzbeks??? Mughal Empire 2.0? LOL just joking.

    I do not know what the future would be but Imran Khan may have to make it military (limited) if he wants the world to react. And then negotiate. There is an Israeli hand behind this and thus most nations are scared to support the Kashmiris. Most likely there are Israeli agents on the ground in Kashmir advising the Indians and as well as Israelis advising the Indians government itself. Maybe removing the article is about using a Palestinian like model of reconquest of land.

    Watch this, this is good. In Hindi and some English.
    This is Indian MP Prof Manoj Kumar Jha of the RJD party who opposed the recent move to scrap article 370. He says later in the speech that he is afraid that now, Kashmir may become like Palestine. Also check out his reading of that book. Just 6 minutes.

    • Replies: @Talha
  157. Malla says:
    @anon

    India plans to do same to Muslim .

    And Christians too. Brahmanical forces are targeting Christians too. What they did with Buddhism and upto some extent even with Jainism, they wish to do with Islam and Christianity in the subcontinent. As long as Christianity, Buddhism, Islam etc… exists, lower caste peoples will have an escape route out of their slavery. That is why they must go. That is also why the Brahmin Baniyas played a big role in getting rid of the British too as the Brits allowed lower caste people education for the first time in 2000 years. Like Dr Ambedkar.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Malla
  158. Talha says:
    @Malla

    Wow – thanks for coming through with such details! Much appreciated!

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Malla
  159. Anonymous[381] • Disclaimer says:
    @DB Cooper

    good muslims are rapist how does it feel to be victims?

  160. Talha says:
    @Malla

    There is no unity.

    Yup.

    Also the UAE is rich and maybe the object of desire of some powerful state.

    Yup – goes back to the first point of disunity.

    The biggest problem is that most of the leaders of the Islamic world are sold out to the Zio Globalist elites up to some extent.

    Agreed – which is why I can’t find fault with Hindutva leadership, they are going to act as per their publicly announced platform. It’s the morons running Muslim countries that are pissing me off.

    They are the toughest guys there.

    War Nerd stated about them; “Chechens are the scariest fighters, pound-for-pound, in the world.”

    The main issue is that they would have to go under the auspices of the old-guard Sunni order and not the Salafi-Wahhabi extremist way. If it’s just going to end up a mess where Hindus and Sikhs are being massacred and enslaved and normal Sufi-type Kashmiris beign butchered, then “no thanks, not interested.”

    Otherwise, you have a fairly target-rich environment with something like over 600,000 soldiers and paramilitary forces in the area. 5,000 Chechens plus 10,000 Uzbeks makes it about a fair fight.

    Uzbeks??? Mughal Empire 2.0?

    LOL – nah – not interested in that actually. I’m not advocating for gobbling up India’s currently recognized borders. The only concern would be to put the hurt on the Indian military with extreme prejudice and have them think about how much longer they want to bleed before coming to the negotiating table and finally giving the Kashmiris a voice instead of unilaterally deciding the issue and then enforcing the dictate with hundreds of thousands of soldiers.

    Imran Khan may have to make it military (limited)

    Pakistan can only seriously stake out a defensive position vis-a-vis India to be honest. Now if Turkey, Saudi, UAE and others lent them a few squadrons to even out the score, the calculus might be different.

    Watch this, this is good. In Hindi and some English.

    Very good – thanks! Very good to know there are opposition voices – best of luck to them in changing things around.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Hanoodtroll
  161. DB Cooper says:
    @Malla

    Is it Manipur you are referring to? I remember their incorporation into India in 1949 has something to do with the nefarious Instrument of Ascension.

    • Replies: @Malla
    , @Malla
  162. Anon[893] • Disclaimer says:
    @Malla

    LOL. No.

    Caste system is extremely strong among Muslims and Christians too. Conversion offers no solution to the caste problem. Most Hindu subcastes also exist in Pakistan.

    Ambedkar thought Buddhism was the only religion which was appropriate for low castes.

    It was the newly independent Indian govt that created caste quotas for untouchables and OBCs. Not the British, who practiced favoritism with the so called “martial races.”

    Today’s India is not Brahmin dominated anymore, except in a few backward parts of the north. Like some of the villages in UP and Bihar.

    • Replies: @Malla
  163. Anon[893] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jus' Sayin'...

    Utter garbage. India has more of a right to Kashmir than America to Texas.

    Imagine if America had a law restricting ownership of Texas land to Hispanics.

    The most bloodthirsty and idiotic religious fundamentalists are White Christian Southerners. Their wars have killed millions of Muslims in the Middle East. Western liberals bray about innocent Muslim deaths in India, while turning a blind eye to the murder they do overseas.

    • Replies: @Malla
  164. Malla says:
    @DB Cooper

    Manipur or may be Tripura. I do not remember. I will have to check it out.

  165. Malla says:
    @DB Cooper

    Not only Kashmiris and various North Eastern peoples, even Sikhs have been pissed off with the Indian Govt in the past and wanted their own independent Khalistan in the Punjab. The Indian Government in an attempt to quell the revolution even militarily invaded the Sikh Golden Temple in Amritsar (the Mecca of Sikhism) and there is evidence that the Indian Government was responsible in a false flag Indian Airlines passenger plane crash via explosives to falsely blame Sikh separatists operating out of Canada.

    Well the Indian government has a new problem in its hand now. The Referendum 2020.

    https://referendum2020.org/

    Four men, with the Nishan Sahib (Sikh flag) in their hands flying high, marched on Trafalgar Square in London on Sunday, 12 August this year. They were followed by a group of secessionists, wearing long beards – holding placards condemning India’s treatment of Sikhs – who congregated to once again demand a separate Punjab state.

    The “Referendum 2020” rally, organised by Sikhs For Justice (SFJ), is trying to understand if Punjabis across at least 20 countries want a separate state. If they find that they do, they’ll call for a referendum by 2020 and then pressure the UN. Of course the Indian Govt is banning the organisation and using its huge influence in many countries to clamp down on this.

    https://www.straight.com/news/1266151/gurpreet-singh-banning-sikhs-justice-shows-true-colours-indian-state

    Will this many any difference, I do not know. India did not even honour referendums and plebiscites with respect to France, what chance do they have?

  166. Malla says:
    @Malla

    Not only education. Many things more. Why did the upper caste dominated Congress push for Independence? And why did Dr. Ambedkar not support the Quit India Movement of Gandhi?

    ” All battles for freedom are not on equal moral plane for the simple reason that the motives and purposes behind these battles of freedom are not always the same”.

    -Dr. Ambedkar, in his article “Plea to the foreigner”.

    Could, Why Dr. Ambedkar not support the Quit India movement, be something to do with this man? Bal Gangadhar Tilak. Who was he ?

    The first and strongest advocate of Swaraj (“self-rule”) was a Chitpavan Brahmin, Bal Gangadhar Tilak (1856-1920); also know as Lokmanya. He was known as “the father of Indian unrest” by the British.

    The Age of Consent Act, 1891, also Act X of 1891, was a legislation enacted in British India on 19 March 1891 which raised the age of consent from 10 years for sexual intercourse for all girls, married or unmarried, to twelve years of age in all jurisdictions.
    The Brahmins, with Tilak as their leader, were against this 1891 Age of Consent bill, seeing it as INTERFERENCE with Hinduism and a dangerous precedent.

    REFERENCE: Jai Narain Sharma-Political Thought of Lokmanya Bal Gangadhar Tilak- Concept Publishing Company-ISBN 13:9788180695841)

    Draconian anti-humanity laws practiced in India for millenia, were being challenged by the British. Continual amendments to these laws must have become a great source of worry for the Brahmins.

    Never before did the privileged castes rebel against any other foreign ruler so vehemently. In fact they enjoyed mutually beneficial relationships with all previous invaders and were even happy to give their daughters in wedlock to the foreigners as long as they maintained the social structure designed by their dominating ancestors.

    Only the British seemed hard to convince. Here is a list (not by any means, a complete list) of other practices abolished by the British, giving the Brahmins like Tilak further reasons why they should get rid of the Brits ASAP.

    1) On 16th May 1775, under the East India regulatory act 1773, Nand kumar Dev became the FIRST EVER BRAHMIN TO BE CONVICTED OF MURDER. Prior to this date the Brahmins had exclusive impunity from state prosecution regardless of the crime.

    2) 1795: For the FIRST TIME since the decline of the Ashokan empire, Shudras were granted the right to own property by the British East India Raj.

    3) 1804: British East India Company Govt bans Female infanticide banned .

    4) 1813: Slavery abolished by the British East India Company Govt.

    5) Also in 1813: Right to education for all granted British East India Company Govt. Before this only Brahmins and Kayasthas like me had this right.

    6) 1817: Punishments according to Varna (caste) system made illegal. Equal punishment before law

    7) 1819: A ban was put on the archaic custom of a Brahmin spending the first three nights with the newly wed Shudra bride.

    8) 1830: Human sacrificial rituals made illegal by the British East India Company Govt

    9) 1835: Compulsory offering of the first born son of a Shudra to the river Ganga made illegal by the British East India Company Sahib.

    10) Also in 1835 on 7th of March, Lord Macaulay fought for and won the right to higher education for Shudras & untouchables and the right to learn English for all non Brahmins.

    Under this newly found freedom to education, the iconoclast JYOTIRAO PHULE became the first person to successfully complete matriculation becoming the most educated person from the ‘OBC Catagory’ and PERUNTHALAIVAR M.C. Rajah being the first degree holder of the Scheduled Community in India. [ B.A in Madras Christian College, Chennai in 1900 ]

    11) Untouchable were granted the right to sit on chairs.

    12) The British banned the custom of ‘sati’ in which it was obligatory for the widow of the deceased to be burnt to death.

    AND THE LIST CONTINUES …

    The abolition of these draconian anti-humanity laws was seen as an attack on the “Hindu way of life” and an obvious source of worry for the likes of Tilak. Can you really blame them for starting a movement to kick the British out?

    AT THIS RATE THE BRITISH COULD EVEN END UP ANNIHILATING THE CASTE SYSTEM ALTOGETHER!

    Who else, other than the dominant, privileged, so-called high castes, would have started such a movement?

    Should Dr. Ambedkar, who was fighting for human rights on behalf of the opppressed women, Shudras and the untouchables have joined the Brahmin-Bania alliance in the “Quit India Movement”, that was stepped up a few notches in the days of Gandhi-mania?

    Dr. Ambedkar needed to and fought for the freedom of ALL Indians, not just for the freedom of a privileged few who were from the historically dominating classes.

  167. @Talha

    5,000 Chechens

    Pakistanis will fight India to the last Chechen. Why do you guys think they will even fight for you?

    I’m not advocating for gobbling up India’s currently recognized borders.

    Of course you aren’t. Pakistan isn’t in a position to do that.

    The only concern would be to put the hurt on the Indian military with extreme prejudice and have them think about how much longer they want to bleed before coming to the negotiating table.

    Isn’t that the same theory – as was back in the 1990s – “bleed India by a thousand cuts”? Where did that go? Right, nowhere. Dude, it’s a country with a billion losers. There is literally an unending supply of bodies to throw around. Rando paramilitary troops killed? It won’t even remain in the news cycle for more than 8 hours.

    Back in 2010, Maoist insurgents in Chattishgarh ambushed and killed 76 CRPF troops at one go. 76. That one probably stayed in the news cycle for about 4 days. That’s all. Nobody even remembers that incident today. Apart from the victims’ families of course.

    For the record I don’t actually support what India has done here. Leaving aside the question whether the decision was legal/ethical, it fails even the pragmatism test. They shouldn’t have downgraded the province to a UT. They should have replaced 35A with something more reasonable, like what exists for Nagaland or Himachal, instead of scrapping it outright. Some other sweeteners could have been given. Now, once they lift the curfew, it may become a bloodbath, with or without Chechens.

    • Replies: @Talha
  168. Malla says:
    @Anon

    Caste system is extremely strong among Muslims and Christians too.

    Among Catholics maybe but caste does not exist among Protestant Indians.

    Conversion offers no solution to the caste problem.

    I know but the threat of possible conversion keeps them Brahmins scared. The threat is important. No need to really convert. Just the OPTION available nearby.

    Ambedkar thought Buddhism was the only religion which was appropriate for low castes.

    Agree.

    It was the newly independent Indian govt that created caste quotas for untouchables and OBCs. Not the British, who practiced favoritism with the so called “martial races.”

    Independent India was forced to, the Congress had to get Ambedkar on board. The British insisted on a Constitution before devolution of power. Ambedkar was appointed Labour Minister by the Viceroy and magically very soon Gandhi started the ‘Quit India Movement’.
    The British Indian Govt practiced favoritism for martial races only in the Army only. And during both the World Wars this martial race favouritism was dropped. Yet most of the soldiers for the Royal Indian Army still came from the Punjab and Gurkhas.
    Besides Ambedkar wanted more for the SCs than just reservations but Gandhi forced him out of it by his stupid fasting fiascos. Ambedkar did not consider Dalits as Hindus at all. Gandhi who was baniya supported the caste system but opposed untouchability.

  169. @DB Cooper

    And wtf is “complicited?” No wonder the West doesn’t want to romanticize the yellow bellies!

  170. Talha says:
    @Hanoodtroll

    Why do you guys think they will even fight for you?

    Has nothing to do with fighting for Pakistan (I’m a US citizen, not Pakistani). Chechens just like to fight, you just need to give them a reason and a rifle. A cause for fellow Muslims is just icing on the cake.

    Of course you aren’t. Pakistan isn’t in a position to do that.

    Even if it was, I don’t advocate them (or anyone) breaking international laws for aggression to take territory by force.

    Isn’t that the same theory – as was back in the 1990s – “bleed India by a thousand cuts”?

    Yes, but with Chechens and Uzbeks, big difference. Chechens were too busy fighting Russians then.

    There is literally an unending supply of bodies to throw around.

    No, you said in the previous sentence that there is a billion.

    76 CRPF troops at one go. 76.

    The goal would be to keep it rolling at 100 per week plus 5-10 pieces of armor.

    it fails even the pragmatism test.

    Agreed.

    Now, once they lift the curfew, it may become a bloodbath, with or without Chechens.

    This may indeed be the case. I’m keeping an eye on Twitter feeds from Kashmiris reporting from their relatives in the area (via phone calls)…people are really pissed off so we’ll see what happens. But they won’t be able to go it alone.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Hanoodtroll
  171. @Malla

    As to no. 7, here is an opening entry on Wikipedia regarding such arrangements in the West:

    “Droit du seigneur (/ˈdrɑː də seɪˈnjɜːr/; French: [dʁwa dy sɛɲœʁ], ‘lord’s right’), also known as jus primae noctis (/ʒʌs ˈpraɪmi ˈnɒktɪs/; Latin: [ju:s ˈpri:mae̯ ‘nɔktɪs], ‘right of the first night’), is a supposed legal right in medieval Europe, allowing feudal lords to have sexual relations with subordinate women, in particular, on their wedding nights.”

  172. Malla says:
    @anon

    Woao, this is huge. This is makes everything very interesting now. We thought we could dance around like a slut with both the Americans and the Russians. The Russians were pissed off with our behaviour for some time now.

  173. @Talha

    Chechens just like to fight, you just need to give them a reason and a rifle.

    I understand you are saying this from a position of fascination, but it’s a tad too patronizing. Besides, at the end of the day, Ramzan Kadyrov answers to our friend Vlad. Although to be fair you aren’t asking for too much – only 5,000.

    Yes, but with Chechens and Uzbeks, big difference.

    Really now? First it was the Pushtuns during the 1990s. Now it’s Chechens! And Uzbeks too! This time it would be different. Well hope springs eternal.

    The only realistic way to bring India to heel, that I can think of, would be a GCC led crude supply ban on India. Uncertain territory, but it has happened in the past, so plausible.

    The goal would be to keep it rolling at 100 per week plus 5-10 pieces of armor.

    Sounds exciting. I do look forward to it.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Malla
  174. Malla says:
    @anon

    China will not break up . India might . India can break up from the internal developments .

    India is not gonna break up. Outside the North East and the Kashmir valley and may maybe Sikhs in Punjab at the most, nobody wants to break up. All the others are happy to live as a united India.
    And even if the Brits created India out of 600 warring tribes and Kings, so what? Most nations have been created this way, via imperialism. People’s Republic of China is a creation of Manchu and Mongol ruling dynasties expansions. Indonesia, Nigeria, Ghana, Brazil, Kenya, South Africa etc… all have been created by imperialism.

  175. Malla says:
    @Anon

    The most bloodthirsty and idiotic religious fundamentalists are White Christian Southerners.

    while turning a blind eye to the murder they do overseas.

    They go overseas because Jews send them there.

    • Replies: @Anon
  176. Talha says:
    @Hanoodtroll

    but it’s a tad too patronizing

    I’ve never heard of a Chechen being upset because someone said they like to fight. It’s been a very long time since the Muslim world outsourced a lot of its fighting to people from Turkic origins or from the Caucasus region:
    “The Mamluks were a class of warrior-slaves, mostly of Turkic or Caucasian ethnicity, who served between the 9th and 19th century in the Islamic world.”
    https://www.thoughtco.com/who-were-the-mamluks-195371

    Ramzan Kadyrov answers to our friend Vlad.

    Correct and that’s making sure Chechens in Chechnya don’t fight the Russians from Russia. For instance, he has not been able to stop a bunch of them from going out to the Ukraine and fighting against Russia.

    This time it would be different. Well hope springs eternal.

    Yes and yes. You never know until you try.

    GCC led crude supply ban on India.

    This would be the preferable option if diplomacy doesn’t work.

    Sounds exciting. I do look forward to it.

    Well, I hope it doesn’t have to come to this and India listens to diplomatic and economic pressure instead. But if it does, then – yeah – Chechens and Uzbeks certainly won’t disappoint.

    Peace.

  177. Malla says:
    @Hanoodtroll

    Ramzan Kadyrov does not control ALL Chechens. How do you explain Chechens fighting for the Zionist ISIS? There were Chechen divisions of the Russian Army and ISIS Chechens in Syria, on opposite sides.

    crude supply ban on India

    What countries do the GCC include? India can go for more and more oil imports from the USA. USA is a big exported of oil now. Is Angola a part of this GCC? Angola has no Muslims, indeed the Angolan government has/had banned Islam. Nigeria has Muslims in the North, but Angola is way south and a potential oil exporter to India.

    • Replies: @Hanoodtroll
  178. Anon[263] • Disclaimer says:
    @Malla

    and because many want to be there…..

    When was the last time any American (liberal or conservative) showed any guilt over the horrendous violence their country has caused. There are numerous reports on these atrocities (such as Wikileaks), to which Americans have reacted with indifference. Every time American leaders start a war overseas, their public support gies up.

    Americans will sometimes express remorse over American troops killed or money wasted. They NEVER express remorse over the foreigners whose lives they destroyed.

    Americans whine constantly about Muslim terrorism, but they are indifferent to their terrorism.

  179. @Malla

    I don’t know man. It’s just a theory. FWIW I think a crude ban on India by Muslim majority oil exporters may happen only if India phenomenally screws up Kashmir. That is uncertain at this point. India may still find crude elsewhere, but it’s damn tough to replace the gulf when it comes to oil.

    About Chechens, I doubt there would be any Chechen in Kashmir. Even if some do end up there, I don’t think it would make any difference. Inside the valley, the average fighter lasts about 72 hours from their activation.

    • Replies: @Talha
  180. Malla says:

    and because many want to be there…..

    When was the last time any American (liberal or conservative) showed any guilt over the horrendous violence their country has caused. There are numerous reports on these atrocities (such as Wikileaks), to which Americans have reacted with indifference. Every time American leaders start a war overseas, their public support gies up.

    No Americans do not want to be anywhere, they are happy in America. They are brainwashed by their media. Americans did not want to be in WW1, the Globalist Jew homos had a false flag sinking of the Lusitania to get the American people riled up against Germany. The Jews had a balfour declaration with the British that the British would give them Palestine and the Jews would bring America in the war even though many ordinary British people opposed the colonization of palestine by Jews. American people did not want to take part in WW2, President FDR promised they would not take part in any war;. But after getting elected he ordered his ships to attack German submarines even when USA had not declared war with Germany and thus was against international law. FDR gave millions of dollars of American land lease help to the Soviet Union and Great Britain. But the Germans were smart this time and the U-boats were commanded by Berlin to prevent a repeat of the Lusitania like incident. So FDR decided to goad Japan, oil embargoes, JB 355 or a plan to bomb Japan via China. But the Japanese took the bait (they had no option) and hence Pearl Harbour, FDR got what he wanted. The American people were mad at Japan but using propaganda they were sent to Europe as well to fight Italy and Germany.
    If the American people naturally loved to fight abroad why go through all this monkey jumping by the Jewish elite to get them to war?
    Why stage a 9/11 false flag to get the American people riled up again? 9/11 operation by Israel and the US deep state was no joke.
    The USA has been used as a big tool by their Jewish-Freemasonic masters for a long time now, more than a century at the very least.
    And when the USA is destroyed tomorrow they move to some other host and so on and so forth. It will continue forever.

    Americans whine constantly about Muslim terrorism

    Most of those Muslim terrorism are funded by jew bankers. The main goal of Muslim terrorism or White Nationalist gunman terrorism (CIA agents acting as White nationalists, brainwashed Manchurian candidates) is surveillance and spying on the population. So that the Globalist elites can fix cameras and face recognition technology at every nook and corner of the World. Why did they pass the “Patriot Act” immediately after 9/11? An act to spy on American citizens by the US Government as a response to Muslim terrorists? The Muslims are of secondary importance, the surveillance and enslavement of the home populations of the West are the real targets. The founding fathers of the USA had warned about this centuries ago, indeed Thomas Jefferson had stated there should be a Revolution every 25 years.

    • Replies: @Anonymous Snanonymous
  181. Talha says:
    @Hanoodtroll

    I doubt there would be any Chechen in Kashmir

    There were already Chechens operating among others in the past, just not in many numbers:
    “Authorities in India’s war-torn Kashmir region said Friday they had killed an Islamic militant from Chechnya, indicating mercenaries from the Russian breakaway republic are now involved in Kashmir’s separatist insurgency.”
    https://www.upi.com/Archives/1996/06/07/Chechen-fighter-killed-in-Kashmir/1038834120000/

    If Putin is Machiavellian about it, he will simply turn a blind eye since Russia is India’s primary military supplier. The more equipment that Chechens wreck, just means that much more potential sales to replenish India’s inventory.

    Tsk,tsk – you used “Chechen” and “average fighter” in the same paragraph.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Anonymous Snanonymous
  182. @Adam D.

    I do find the use of racial and ethnic slurs uncouth in so-called polite society, whatever it may be, but my question is what have those people done not to deserve others using such epithets to refer to them? My only complaint is that there aren’t more such slurs for other nations like Indians, Afghans, etc. like there are for some others.

    So basically we have here a section of the more educated supposedly civilised public who find the use of such terms offensive, yet the vast majority of ordinary people, who know better what it’s like when it comes to generalities, use them profusely as they actually have a real meaning to them. Surely when someone uses the word “Paki” they don’t mean to include somebody like Prof. Abdus Salam but the general run of the mill Pakis with all their shortcomings. Perhaps people who find such slurs offensive should change their behaviour so as not to incur such offense, or work towards their people/nation improving their general presentation so that others wouldn’t think of using an offensive term when referring to them. But no, they want to continue being their wily despicable selves and then take offence when others show them how disagreeable they are by referring to them with slurs. I mean if you don’t like it, improve yourself and stop complaining.

  183. Kerala says: • Website

    To understand India’s history you need to start 400 centuries ago.This current cluster-copulation is a result of an ongoing attack against India and all Hindus.Two links fyi: https://ajitvadakayil.blogspot.com/?m=1 fyi: http://www.mcremo.com

  184. @Talha

    It’s amazing to read how the Subcontinent Muslims including Pakistanis gloat about the above average Chechen “brothers” coming to their aid considering that their real genetic brothers are Hindus and it’s to them the low IQ butchers would be set to destroy and to destabilize South Asia for the pipedream of building an Islamic caliphate from Kashmir to the shores of Kanya Kumari for their Arab overseers. I now understand the disgust the Indians feels towards the turncoats, who would rather devide the house of their forebears for a pat on the back for being part of the so called Islamic world then to honestly admit their colossal blunder!

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @anon
    , @Adam D.
  185. @Malla

    Your diatribes against Jews is breathtaking and it makes one wonder if you are really what you say you are… are you a Hindu woman or pretending to be one, hidden behind a chador/burkha/abaya out of India to mislead UNZ readership?

    • Replies: @Malla
    , @Malla
  186. Talha says:
    @Anonymous Snanonymous

    You seem to be reading a whole lot of stuff into my words that’s not there. To commence…

    gloat

    I did no such thing, in fact I was quite deliberately clear that I hoped diplomatic or economic pressure could get the job done. I have no interest in a bunch of Hindu soldiers ending up in body bags, I’d much rather that they vacate the area and go back safe and sound to their families and give the Kashimiris space to determine what their political future is.

    Chechen “brothers”…considering that their real genetic brothers are Hindus

    They are our brothers. There are two ways to prioritize brotherhood; one is from a materialist perspective – blood, the other is from a spiritual perspective – faith/religion. Our mandate from the Divine is clear; the spiritual brotherhood takes precedence over blood:
    “And hold firmly to the rope of Allah all together and do not become divided. And remember the favor of Allah upon you – when you were enemies and He brought your hearts together and you became, by His favor, brothers…” (3:103)

    “The believers are but a brotherhood, so reconcile between your brothers…” (49:10)

    “The parable of the believers in their affection, mercy, and compassion for each other is that of a body. When any limb aches, the whole body reacts with sleeplessness and fever.” – reported in Bukhari

    So yeah, we have a spiritual brotherhood whereas some guys who look at the world through a materialist lens see a brotherhood made up of race or ethnicity (irrespective of whether the person is a Christian, atheist, pagan, etc.). There is no congruence between the spiritual paradigm and the materialist paradigm; they will always seem alien to each other.

    pipedream of building an Islamic caliphate

    Nope, never mentioned anything about this. I was very clear; I am interested in the Kashmiri people (from whatever background – and whether displaced or not) being allowed to figure out their political future and not have it handed to them; if they want to go with Pakistan -well and good, if they want to go with India – well and good, if they want to be independent – well and good.

    I now understand the disgust the Indians feels towards the turncoats

    I frankly don’t care what the Hindutva are butt-hurt about – maybe it’s the fact that they still end up using the Taj Mahal for most of their tourist advertising. Their feelz is of little concern, they will do what they will do – if the Muslim world decides to turn a blind eye, then it is simply a blight upon us. The Kashmiris cannot possibly stand up to India’s unilateral decision on their own, it is up to the Muslim world to take its mandate of brotherhood seriously and come to their aid.

    devide the house of their forebears

    As if India was some massive united entity in the past.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Anonymous Snanonymous
  187. anon[354] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous Snanonymous

    You are essentially saying that you would sacrifice your family , your values , your ideas , your future for the sake of the brotherly or sisterly relationship that exists out of mutual genetic share despite your realization that your brother or sister don’t give a damn to your family your values your education ,your job prospect ,your safety and your place of worship or your way of worshipping .
    That won’t happen .
    To understand Indian upper caste attitude to non Hindus you have to realize what riot and communal violence have wrought to Indian Muslim over last 30 years . Those violences were generated by Hindus with help of local police and the media and the inaction or total support of the state government . They orchestrate and then they blame the violence on Muslim .
    Muslims are forced to eat during month of fasting
    Muslims students are forced to pray to the Sun
    Mulsm students are forced to recite Bande Mataram
    Muslim women have been forced to undress and have sex in front of family
    Muslim have lost business that they have sustained for centuries . They have lost trade and been forced to leave the profession to Hindus . Forces and violence have been used to displace Muslim
    Muslim have been kicked out of homes and lands .

    Gov jobs are not there for Muslim .

    This is the reality .

    If India can ask for help of Israel to subdue Muslim of Kashmir, Kashmiri definitely can ask help of non Indian Muslim to help them .

    • Replies: @Anonymous Snanonymous
  188. Adam D. says:
    @Anonymous Snanonymous

    So if a dalit, sick of being a dalit becomes a Christian or Muslim to find dignity, spiritual dignity if not material, you call them turn coats?

    In any case this mindset of a hindu paradise once existing 3 thousand years ago before the 100 or so invaders came is the problem with the revisionist RSS mindset, everyone is a turncoat because everyone should be a hindu.

    Btw a Kashmiri has no meaningful genetic link with the majority of Indians, that’s the point, they don’t want to be ethnically cleansed.

  189. Malla says:
    @Anonymous Snanonymous

    makes one wonder if you are really what you say you are…

    Listen you stupid Hinduvadi idiot, live your life in such stupid speculations. You have no idea how the world works.

  190. @Adam D.

    I didn’t say a damn thing about the Dalits or upper caste converting to Christianity for they do not at once espouse separate identity, save their religious designation, nor do they seek a separate homeland. In fact, the Christians of India or more patriotic than a whole lot of their fellow travelers. Muslims, on the other hand, are and always will be the one true festering sore in the Indian body politic, thus the “problem” of Islam must be solved once and for all because it’s called SRI NAGAR (venerable/holy city from Sanskrit) and not Makkah (Arabic) nor the eternal city of Jerusalem (Hebrew). A Muslim and a Hindu are akin to night and day, black and white, bitter and sweet, violent and peaceful… the final solution is probable, nay most likely, in the age of nuclear weapons!

  191. Talha says:
    @Adam D.

    revisionist RSS mindset…a Kashmiri has no meaningful genetic link with the majority of Indians

    But I guess it’s OK to some to flood Kashmir with hundreds of thousands of Hindu Jat and Tamil soldiers because “muh Hindu unity “, but if Muslims appeal to unity from outside the valley; “you traitors”.

    That’s why I don’t even bother with the reasons that Hindutva put out for hating on Muslims, because it’s really only them that hold this kind of butt-hurt attitude about their presence in India. And they will come up with all sorts of nonsense to justify their attitude. It is not a coincidence that there is plenty of conflation between the propaganda used by both Zionist affiliated and Hindutva sites out there hating on Islam.

    Plenty of other normal Hindus have no problems visiting the various Sufi dargahs that are scattered around India:
    “This 16th century mausoleum to a Sufi saint sees more Hindus than Muslims flocking to it every day. So it has been for centuries.”
    https://maptia.com/bijoyv/stories/the-islamic-shrine-where-hindus-pray

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Anonymous Snanonymous
  192. @anon

    Apart from a whole lot of unprovable assertions in your harangue, which could not be supported by the very fact that India has more Muslims than either Pakistan or Bangladesh and that wouldn’t be possible unless that had relatively good situation but the thing that caught my eye was the last para:

    “If India can ask for help of Israel to subdue Muslim of Kashmir, Kashmiri definitely can ask help of non Indian Muslim to help them .”

    As the Greeks told the Persians… μολὼν λαβέ,

    • Replies: @anon
  193. @Talha

    Your spirituality, Talha, is your personal business and I wouldn’t want to cast aspersions on it and if Arabs and Chechens and Turks and Tunisians are more to your liking then more power to you but as it pertains to the Indian Subcontinent, it is for the majority to decide, who is in and who is out, just like the West belongs to its majority and god willing the desert shall always sport the Bedouins.

    All I can tell you is “Tough Chechens” or whatever, Kashmir is going to remain in largely Hindu India, notwithstanding the Chinese mollycoddling of your clueless leadership. God Help You!

    • Replies: @Talha
  194. Talha says:
    @Anonymous Snanonymous

    Kashmir is going to remain in largely Hindu India

    Which I have absolutely no problems with as long as the people of Kashmir get to be fully involved in the process that ultimately leads to that outcome as they should have a long time ago.

    Peace.

  195. @Talha

    For an admitted son of the Mohajirs out of Uttar Pradesh and whose presence would be anathema to the Sindhis of all persuasions though living in California talking about Jats and Tamils… are you sure you don’t have any low caste skeletons in your family closet? Casting stones while living in a glass menagerie…

    • Replies: @Talha
  196. Malla says:
    @Anonymous Snanonymous

    Check out the works of James Perloff about WW2
    He is Jewish himself. But he is a good, intelligent and honest person.

    Completely in agreement in what I wrote there.

    Here is another video where he talks about False Flag events used by the Zio elites to fool and rile up the American people to go to war.

    James Perloff: False Flag Events Behind the Six Major Wars

    All the way from the Spanish-American war to WW1 to WW2 to Vietnam all the way to 9/11 and thus the American/Western invasion of Middle East. Most American White nationalists are convinced that Israel played a big part behind 9/11, they oppose Muslims mass immigration to Europe and other Western countries but even they are convinced that 9/11 was a Zionist inside job.

    • Replies: @Anonymous Snanonymous
  197. anon[354] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous Snanonymous

    That India was the result of the policy of Nehru and Ghandi who are hated by RSS -BJP. RSS wants this Indian Muslim become Hindustani Muslim . Their plan is to create another class who lives like the untouchable and whose religious practices become a syncretic Hinduism with no identity of historical connection or continuity .

    Hindus now refe to Buddha and Ghandi when it suit them abroad . At home this is different . They are hated . Last election again confirmed what the RSS is all about . It is ISIS.

  198. Talha says:
    @Anonymous Snanonymous

    I live in Illinois. I don’t know if I have any low caste ancestry – I don’t know how that is relevant. As far as Sindhis, my family never had a problem with them (though I realize some Muhajirs had problems), I don’t ever remember feeling excluded when I lived in Pakistan in my youth; to this day, my father wears a Sindhi cap whenever he goes to the mosque.

    Peace.

  199. @Malla

    If not for the Jews, you fishmongers of Bengal would not have seen America let alone having lived here and learnt the American patois and commenting on this website… just remember, Benjamin Disraeli was the prime minister of the greatest empire the world had seen up to date, when your peeps were running around half naked.

    • Replies: @Malla
    , @Malla
    , @Malla
  200. Anonymous[989] • Disclaimer says:

    You’ve been an eternal parasite forever, Jew boy, and you’ve had absolutely no part in anything constructive for the US. It’s why “anti-semitism” has flourished so much in the US. They’ve never liked your parasitic and subversive tendencies. There is no such thing as a Jewish “American patriot”. Their only loyalty is and always will be, Israel. Not America. You’ve had absolutely no say with the importation of any South Asian either. You are just an eternal thorn on the side of the countries which you inhabit. It’s why you’ve been expelled so much LOL

    Benjamin Disraeli

    And? You take pride in having a fellow Jew at the top. So what? Who says subversion does not happen? You are not representative of the Americans either. Jewish cocksucking has already been thoroughly institutionalized, and this is why the rest of the world has a problem with the ((American)) empire. Why do I care if some Jew boy was a PM for a while? Since Cromwell let them in, they’ve been a compromised ass-kissing empire. Lots of Jews have been a part of upper echelons of government. So what? Obama was president too. What does that tell you? Sajid F****** Javed is Chancellor. Priti Patel is Home Sec. A lot of Negroes are in the political chambers of the US.

    Go have your rabbi suck your penis. I think you guys like that

    • Replies: @Anonymous Snanonymous
  201. Malla says:
    @Anonymous Snanonymous

    So you are a Jew, not an Indian. I see…

    you fishmongers of Bengal

    I am from UP you stupid punk.

    If not for the Jews, you fishmongers of Bengal would not have seen America let alone having lived here and learnt the American patois and commenting on this website

    I do not live in America you stupid monkey. And my desire to see America again is reduced as America turns into a shithole thanks to you guys.

    just remember, Benjamin Disraeli was the prime minister of the greatest empire the world

    And was he the only PM? We had Gladstone, we had the Marquess of Salisbury.

    when your peeps were running around half naked.

    When your ancestors were wearing tree bark, eating tree bark and hitting each other with clubs in some god forsaken corner of the middle East, my ancestors were reciting the Vedas.
    And one thing about our Brahmins, whatever crap they did at least they did not give BJs to little babies like those barbaric mohels do. What filthy barbaric practice!!!!

    • Replies: @Anonymous Snanonymous
  202. Talha says:

    when your peeps were running around half naked

    Somebody hasn’t read about the accounts of the city of Dhaka (one of the most rich provinces of India in past ages) from mariners and travelers like Thomas Bowrey* and others in the 17th and 18th centuries. These is a reason why the British began their colonization there.

    Peace.

    *For interested parties:
    https://archive.org/details/ageographicalac00bowrgoog/page/n9

  203. @Talha

    Do you not see irony here? The Muslims converts of the Sindh kicked out the Hindu Sindhis making them refugees all over the world and took in those converted Bhaiyyas of UP and Bihar, who left on their own volition to be with fellow Muslims and are now oppressing the very louts who opened doors of prosperity for them and the similar thing repeated in Kashmir with the majority, Muslims, in an effort to make the valley “pure” kicked out those of the dharma, viz. the Pundits. The Muslim motto should not be that there is only one God and you are his followers but what is mine is mine and yet what is yours is also mine… it would be apropos!

    • Replies: @Talha
  204. Malla says:
    @Talha

    Very true, Bengal was the richest land in the subcontinent.
    The British did not start their colonisation there out of choice. Nawab Siraj Ud Daulah attacked Calcutta and locked the British into a tiny chamber with some Indians which resulted into the death of many. Called the black hole of Calcutta.

    • Replies: @anon
  205. Malla says:
    @Anonymous Snanonymous

    just remember, Benjamin Disraeli was the prime minister of the greatest empire the world

    ooooh, so you need other guys to do all the hard work to build empires while you guys sit at the top and loot. Why do we not see any Great Judean Empire? Oh wait a minute, you guys were butt raped by every empire around. Your ancestors were like that ugly slut who lived next door whom every often a bunch of drunk Frat buys would run over because they could. Some of the Frat boys belonged to team Egyptians, others to team Assyrians, team Babylonians and then we had team Romans and probably many more. That explains why Jews look White to black to brown to even Kaifeng Chinese. All that frat boy activity of the past. LOL

  206. Escher says:
    @Talha

    Talha, I don’t agree with a lot of what you write, but I admire your even and gentlemanly tone on this forum, including discussions on topics for which you clearly have strong feelings. You set a good example.

    • Replies: @Talha
  207. @Malla

    You had stated that you were part Bengali and Gujarati in an earlier post… so what are you, ho?

    • Replies: @Malla
  208. Malla says:
    @Anonymous Snanonymous

    you fishmongers of Bengal

    Why do people think Kayasthas are all Bengalis? Bengal has the largest number of my caste by my caste originated in North India, even the Brahmin caste originated in UP. Indeed a sizable percentage of Bengali Kayastas originate from UP Kayastha migrants invited by the kings of Bengal during the Hindu Sena dynasty of Bengal. But there were Kayasthas in Bengal already before that because the earlier Buddhist Pala dynasty were ruled by Kayasthas too.

  209. @Talha

    All they had was jute and between the Zamindars and their thralls they could not produce much else but it was the Marwari of Rajasthan, the native jew like creature before the arrival of the Baghdadis (the native Bene Israelis did not possess financial genius) like the Sasoons, who had helped built up the local economy that attracted the ravenous lot the Limeys were. The Subcontinent has always been the mecca of the bloodsuckers: Armenians to Zoroastrians. Native Bangla Pradeshi had nothing to do with the fabulous wealth!

    • Replies: @Malla
    , @Talha
  210. @Anonymous

    So, the ADL is correct in stating the antisemitism is on the rise in America per your assessment. I hope you are not one being that Ron Unz is a Jew too and is allowing you to express your pernicious views without censorship. Take your medicine as the good Jewish doctor prescribed and try not to be an ungrateful schmuck!

    • Replies: @Malla
    , @Anonymous
  211. Malla says:
    @Anonymous Snanonymous

    Listen shameless slut, learn to read. It was the poster BengaliCanandiandude who said he was part Bengali and part Gujrati. Not me. Not that I mind being Bengali or Gujrati or Tamil or Maharashtrian
    What are you, mystery meat?

    • Replies: @Anonymous Snanonymous
  212. Malla says:
    @Anonymous Snanonymous

    Marwari of Rajasthan,

    ….and those Marwari Jagat Seths loved collaborating with the Limeys.

    In the book ‘The British Conquest and Dominion of India’ Sir Penderel Moon writes “some influential Hindu bankers in the capital of Bengal, Murshidabad, alienated by Siraj ud Daulah’s violence and caprice, had secretly informed the British that they were meditating his removal”.
    And who were these guys? They were Oswal Jains, led by a man whose title was Jagat Seth, meaning “banker to the world”.

    Siraj ud Daulah was a psycho, who ruled by whim and did not know anything about running an economy. The only good thing he did was screw the maratha looters for a while but anyways later he agreed to pay cauth or 1/4th of the revenue of Bengal to the looter dacoit marathas. That was how the mighty Hindu Maratha Empire (pride of hindutva) ran, by looting and freebooting, Muslim, Hindu and Europeans alike. They were fair looters, Hindu, Muslim or European, the rate was 25% or chauth (1/4th). Remember for the blood thirsty Mughals, loot rate was 20% and that of the British mere 5%.

    Sir Penderel writes: “Siraj Ud Daulah is said to have struck Jagat Seth, the leading Hindu banker, in the face…. It seems to have been Jagat Seth who took the lead in approaching the English for help in overthrowing him.”

    It was another trader in Bengal, Amin Chand who brokered the deal of Plassey along with Jagat Seth. Amin Chand cemented the deal between Robert Clive and Mir Jafar, but then blackmailed the British saying he would tell Siraj ud Daulah unless he was paid ₹ 30 lakh. Woaw what slimeballs, make nefarious deals behind the back and then blackmail!! Woaw.

  213. anon[354] • Disclaimer says:
    @Malla

    England has made a big deal out of this incident .
    Siraj was 20 yrs old . He was also surrounded by internal conspiracies from many sides . The black hole were preceded by many incidents of British brutalities mainly regarding tax collection and trampling if local customary laws .

    • Replies: @Malla
  214. Malla says:
    @anon

    England has made a big deal out of this incident .

    Agreed. But the incident was quite brutal to say the least. Clive was psycho himself. Many Empire builders are.

    The black hole were preceded by many incidents of British brutalities mainly regarding tax collection and trampling if local customary laws .

    For a while yes. But later the East India Company put an end to all these practices.

    • Replies: @anon
  215. Malla says:
    @Anonymous Snanonymous

    So, the ADL is correct in stat…

    Why should any American be required to giva damn about what those gassbags sez? Is it required as per the American constitution? I do not thinks so? Did President George Washington care bout reading the latest ADL reports? Would an intelligent man of his caliber care about such rubbish? I not think so.

    Anyways the ADL reminded me of something interesting I came across the other day. The whole name is Anti Demation league of the Binai Brith.
    Brith? What da hell doz diz evun mean? In Hebrew among many things Brith means ‘covenant’ as in covenant with GOD.
    And what does ‘ish’ mean in Hebrew? It is one of the many words for ‘Man’.
    So Brith+Ish = Covenant + Man in Hebrew or shall we just cut out the B.S. and say British = ‘Chosen People of GOD’. Interesting stuff.

  216. @Malla

    Your daddy, little girl!

    • Replies: @Malla
  217. anon[354] • Disclaimer says:
    @Malla

    How Britain stole $45 trillion from India

    And lied about it.

    Jason Hickel by Jason Hickel
    19 Dec 2018 GMT+3
    There is a story that is commonly told in Britain that the colonisation of India – as horrible as it may have been – was not of any major economic benefit to Britain itself. If anything, the administration of India was a cost to Britain. So the fact that the empire was sustained for so long – the story goes – was a gesture of Britain’s benevolence.

  218. Malla says:
    @Anonymous Snanonymous

    Your daddy, little girl!

    Isn’t that old? Every loser when he or she or it cannot come up with something to respond with comes back with this crap and thinks he, she or it is smart. When will you stop being a loser?

  219. Talha says:
    @Anonymous Snanonymous

    I don’t see any irony because not only was there communal violence and displacement on both sides (unlike the rosy Hindu side you want to present), but I also do not support any of what the Muslims did in forcing out non-criminal Sikh and Hindus during the madness associated with Partition.

    In fact, I support Pakistan offering a full right of repatriation for all Hindus and Sikhs that were forced out if they would like to return, as was recently mentioned by a Hindu parliament member:
    https://www.financialexpress.com/india-news/hindus-can-return-to-pakistan-says-first-pakistani-hindu-to-win-na-elections/1272637/

    Pakistan has also started to make some moves to undo some of the injustices against Hindu temples in the aftermath of Partition, which I also fully support:
    “The Pakistani Government has announced that 400 temples will be restored. Two temples will be restored every year. The first two temples up for refurbishment are in Peshawar and Sialkot. The latter has a Shivalaya Teja Singh temple and a Jagannath temple. This action came after the government conceded to the longstanding demand of the country’s minority Hindu population that the Hindu places of worship should be restored and handed back to the community.”
    https://www.worldreligionnews.com/religion-news/pakistan-will-restore-return-400-hindu-temples

    That is irrespective of whatever policies the Hindutva government in India carries out.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Malla
  220. Malla says:

    How Britain stole $45 trillion from India

    Only 45 trillion!!! Why not 5000 trillion and why not in GBP? Why hold back one’s imagination?

    Actually the loot can be infinite or the loot could be negative loot which means the limeys lost money. So what is it?

    Check out from 28.30 minutes to at least 35:00. It could be much worse than that figure. Very well explained.

  221. Talha says:
    @Escher

    No problem, we can all do our part to make the Internet a less hostile and more useful place to exchange ideas. My thanks for takingthe time to read my posts.

    Peace.

  222. Talha says:
    @Anonymous Snanonymous

    I’m not sure who your intended audience for this post was, but I’m fairly certain that 95% of people will have little idea what that word salad means. I think you should be a little more clear in what you want to convey; just a thought.

    Peace.

  223. Kerala says: • Website

    In the USA Bat Babylon this is what we know about 9-11. >www.veteranstoday.com/2018/09/25/the-secret-history-of-9-11https://311truth.wordpress.com/about-311-truth/<. The body politic of India is infected with this same group of wayward souls.Need to clean house starting in New Delhi.

    • Replies: @Malla
  224. Malla says:
    @Talha

    Wow, this is very impressive on Pakistan’s part.

    • Replies: @Talha
  225. Malla says:
    @Kerala

    Thanks buddy, I already know about the Fukushima incident behind the scenes info but had missed out that the Fukishima disaster date. So 9/11, 7/11, 3/11…Looks like some Gematria at play. There was a Israeli company involved in the nuclear plant. And the USA had been working on such Tsunami weapons since WW2 when they tested crude devices of this kind in New Zealand. So all these decades, they must have got sophisticated.

    As far as Delhi, our Indian parliament’s security is taken care of by a Israeli company closely liked to the secret Unit 8200 which is closely linked to the Israeli Defense Force.
    Some notable Israeli companies (all closely connected to the Israeli Military related Unit 8200) which deserve mention
    NICE Systems, (High Tech recording of the Indian Parliament )
    Akamai Technologies (Election Commission Of India Private mobile Handsets)
    ECI Telecom ,(ECI’s top position in the Indian transmission market, with 25% share of the country’s metro optical network hardware market.)

  226. Talha says:
    @Malla

    Honestly, it’s about time. I’m glad they are taking care of these things while the generations that were personally affected by the injustices carried out during Partition are still alive. Muslims had no right to forcibly take over and turn the sacred spaces of others into marketplaces or restaurants or whatever.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Malla
  227. Malla says:
    @Talha

    I hope India could reciprocate but under today’s political conditions this looks unlikely. Many Pak properties were declared enemy properties and seized. Similarly hope Bangladesh and West Bengal State could do the same.

    • Replies: @Talha
  228. Talha says:
    @Malla

    Reciprocity is not necessary; Pakistan should take these measures regardless to rectify previous wrongs. India’s actions should be irrelevant in this regard.

    Peace.

  229. @Adam D.

    Pakistan never seems to be bothered by Uighur muslims, nor the muslims they slaughtered in Afghanistan over the farce of “War on Terror”. They seem happy to take money from US and slaughter fellow muslims but how do these nazi hindus get to absorb the muslim majority state within their territory?!

    Pakistanis are happy to slaughter the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps? Dear Readers, muslims can kill muslims but they will use victimhood when it supports their terrorists cause.

    • Replies: @anon
    , @Adam D.
  230. anon[354] • Disclaimer says:
    @whattheduck

    This is universal . Seen among all nations .

    It is like you spanking your child but getting enraged at some one else berating your child .

  231. KA says:

    “ Historical Perspective
    On 26 October 1947, Maharaja Hari Singh signed the “Instrument of Accession” to India, officially ceding to the government of India jurisdiction over defense, foreign affairs and communications. The accession of J & K to India was accepted by Lord Mountbatten with the proviso that once political stability was established in the region, a referendum would be held in which the people of the State would either validate or veto the accession. After signing the Instrument of Accession, the maharaja appointed his political adversary, Sheikh Mohammad Abdullah, as the head of an interim government.
    On 2 November 1947, Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru, the first Prime Minister of independent India, reiterated his government’s pledge to not only the people of Kashmir, but also to the international community, to hold a referendum in Indian and Pakistani-administered Jammu and Kashmir under the auspices of a world body like the United Nations, in order to determine whether the populace preferred to be affiliated with India or Pakistan. Nehru emphasized this commitment several times at public forums over the next few years.
    In January 1948 India referred the Kashmir dispute to the United Nations. Prime Minister Nehru took the dispute with Pakistan over Kashmir beyond local and national boundaries by bringing it before the UN Security Council, and seeking a ratification of India’s “legal” claims over Kashmir. The UN reinforced Nehru’s pledge of holding a plebiscite in Kashmir, and in 1948 the Security Council established the United Nations Commission for India and Pakistan (UNCIP) to play the role of mediator in the Kashmir issue. The UNCIP adopted a resolution urging the government of Pakistan to cease the infiltration of tribal mercenaries and raiders into J & K. It also urged the government of India to demilitarize the State by “withdrawing their own forces from Jammu and Kashmir and reducing them progressively to the minimum strength required for the support of civil power in the maintenance of law and order.” The resolution proclaimed that once these conditions were fulfilled, the government of India would be obligated to hold a plebiscite in the State in order to either ratify or veto the accession of J & K to India.
    In the meantime, the Government of Jammu and Kashmir negotiated with the central government to ensure that it would be allowed to function as a fully autonomous unit within the federation. Article 370 of the Constitution of India ensured that apart from defense, foreign affairs, and communications, decisions with regard to other matters would be determined with the consent of the Government of Jammu and Kashmir. There was a reason that special status was guaranteed to Jammu and Kashmir under Article 370 of the Indian Constitution. On 13 July 1950, the new government of J & K, headed by Sheikh Mohammad Abdullah, made a landmark decision.“

    http://www.counterpunch.com 8/20/19

    By N Khan

    • Replies: @Hussain Agha
  232. KA says:

    It is a sham to say India was right to deny the plebiscite
    because Pakistan was occupying part of Kashmir

    India agreed to hold after JK was already partly occupied by Pakistan .

  233. Anonymous[989] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous Snanonymous

    Of course there are good Jews. Not every single person within an ethnic group is bad. Read some of Mr.Unz’s stuff. He’s a great, insightful guy. I’m right about youse being subversive. That’s just a fact. Look up “jewish expulsions” in Google. Look through this site. It’s a treasure trove of brilliance.

  234. Talha says:

    Thread from another journalist that came back from Kashmir after more than a week of investigation:

    Peace.

  235. @KA

    The Instrument of Accession – for which the circumstances in Jammu and Kashmir had already been destroyed and invalidated by the Maharaja himself thanks to the October 1947 Jammu pogrom of 237 000 Muslims helped by India – is a myth. I’ve posted this before, @KA and @Talha.

    I again stress that the Instrument could not be signed in keeping with the fair process of accession outlined by the Brits as they departed India (since quite obviously massacring your state subjects is the opposite of asking them who they want to join lol) but India never proved it even had it. India didn’t even SHOW IT TO THE DAMN UNITED NATIONS when INDIA ITSELF invited the UNO to mediate Kashmir.

    ‘THE INDIAN CLAIM TO JAMMU & KASHMIR A REAPPRAISAL’

    By historian Alistair Lamb

    [MORE]

    ‘The formal overt Indian intervention in the internal affairs of the State of Jammu & Kashmir began on about 9.00 a.m. on 27 October 1947, when Indian troops started landing at Srinagar airfield. India has officially dated the commencement of its claim that the State was part of Indian sovereign territory to a few hours earlier, at some point in the afternoon or evening of 26 October. From their arrival on 27 October 1947 to the present day, Indian troops have continued to occupy a large proportion of the State of Jammu & Kashmir despite the increasingly manifest opposition of a majority of the population to their presence. To critics of India’s position and actions in the State of Jammu & Kashmir the Government of New Delhi has consistently declared that the State of Jammu & Kashmir lies entirely within the sphere of internal Indian policy. Do the facts support the Indian contention in this respect?

    The State of Jammu & Kashmir was a Princely State within the British Indian Empire. By the rules of the British transfer of power in Indian subcontinent in 1947 the Ruler of the State, Maharajah Sir Hari Singh, with the departure of the British and the lapsing of Paramountcy (as the relationship between State and British Crown was termed), could opt to join either India or Pakistan or, by doing nothing, become from 15 August 1947 the Ruler of an independent polity. The choice was the Ruler’s and his alone: there was no provision for popular consultation in the Indian Princely States during the final days of the British Raj. On 15th August 1947, by default, the State of Jammu & Kashmir became independent.

    India maintains that this period of independence, the existence of which it has never challenged effectively, came to an end on 26/27 October as the result of two pairs of closely related transactions which we must now examine. They are:

    a) an Instrument of Accession of Jammu & Kashmir to India which the Maharajah is alleged to have signed on 26 October 1947, and b) the acceptance of this Instrument by the Governor-General of India, Lord Mountbatten, on 27 October 1947; plus c) a letter from the Maharajah to Lord Mountbatten, dated 26 October 1947, in which Indian military aid is sought in return for accession to India (on terms stated in an allegedly enclosed Instrument) and the appointment of Sheikh Abdullah to head an Interim Government of the State; and d) a letter from Lord Mountbatten to the Maharajah, dated 27 October 1947, acknowledging the above and noting that, once the affairs of the State have been settled and law and order is restored, “the question of the State’s accession should be settled by a reference to the people.”

    In both pairs of documents it will be noted that the date of the communication from the Maharajah, be it the alleged Instrument of Accession or the letter to Lord Mountbatten, is given as 26 October 1947, that is to say before the Indian troops actually began overtly to intervene in the State’s affairs on the morning of 27 October 1947. It has been said that Lord Mountbatten insisted on the Maharajah’s signature as a precondition for his approval of Indian intervention in the affairs of what would otherwise be an independent State.

    The date, 26 October 1947, has hitherto been accepted as true by virtually all observers, be they sympathetic or hostile to the Indian case. It is to be found in an official communication by Lord Mountbatten, as Governor General of India, to M.A. Jinnah, Governor General of Pakistan, on 1 November 1947; and it is repeated in the White paper on Jammu & Kashmir which the Government of India laid before the Indian Parliament in March 1948. Pakistani diplomats have never challenged it. Recent research, however, has demonstrated beyond a shadow of a doubt that the date is false. This fact emerges from the archives, and it is also quite clear from such sources as the memoirs of the Prime Minister of Jammu & Kashmir at the time, Mehr Chand Mahajan, and the recently published correspondence of Jawaharlal Nehru, the Indian Prime Minister. Circumstantial accounts of the events of 26 October 1947, notably that of V.P. Menon (in his The Integration of the Indian States, London 1956), who said he was actually present when the Maharajah signed, are simply not true.

    It is now absolutely clear that the two documents (a) the Instrument of Accession, and (c) the letter to Lord Mountbatten, could not possibly have been signed by the Maharajah of Jammu & Kashmir on 26 October 1947. The earliest possible time and date for their signature would have to be the afternoon of 27 October 1947. During 26 October 1947 the Maharajah of Jammu & Kashmir was travelling by road from Srinagar to Jammu. His Prime Minister, M.C. Mahajan, who was negotiating with the Government of India, and the senior Indian official concerned in State matters, V.P. Menon, were still in New Delhi where they remained overnight, and where their presence was noted by many observers. There was no communication of any sort between New Delhi and the traveling Maharajah. Menon and Mahajan set out by air from New Delhi to Jammu at about 10.00 a.m. on 27 October; and the Maharajah learned from them for the first time the result of his Prime Minister’s negotiations in New Delhi in the early afternoon of that day.

    The key point, of course, as has already been noted above, is that it is now obvious that these documents could only have been signed after the overt Indian intervention in the State of Jammu & Kashmir. When the Indian troops arrived at Srinagar air field, that State was still independent. Any agreements favourable to India signed after such intervention cannot escape the charge of having been produced under duress. It was, one presumes, to escape just such a charge that the false date 26 October 1947 was assigned to these two documents. The deliberately distorted account of that very senior Indian official, V.P. Menon, to which reference has already been made, was no doubt executed for the same end. Falsification of such a fundamental element as date of signature, however, once established, can only cast grave doubt over the validity of the document as a whole. ‘

    Read on if you wish but I think this suffices.

  236. Miro23 says:
    @Talha

    Definitely an intersting read. https://caravanmagazine.in/conflict/one-solution-gun-solution-gun-solution-kashmir-in-shock-and-anger

    From the article:

    In fact, the government and its many agencies have gone to a great extent to stay in control of the narrative.

    In Kashmir, comparisons with the Israel-Palestine conflict have become part of everyday talk. Given the fondness of the BJP and RSS for Israel, these comparisons do not look out of place. The current situation of siege and the response of the people comes close to what the novelist John Berger described in a dispatch from Ramallah in 2003:

    The Israeli government claims that they are obliged to take these measures to combat terrorism. The claim is a feint. The true aim of the stranglehold is to destroy the indigenous population’s sense of temporal and spatial continuity so that they either leave or become indentured servants. And it’s here that the dead help the living to resist. It’s here that men and women make their decision to become martyrs. The stranglehold inspires the terrorism it purports to be fighting

    Kashmir (India /Pakistan) is a much more explosive place than the US, but Anglo US has also had its Article 370 removed. Mass non-European immigration is now allowed, there are government calls for guns to be removed and serious talk of fighting “domestic terrorism”.

    • Agree: Malla
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