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Can the Putin Fans League win municipal elections in New York City? Not bloody likely, you’ll murmur, and probably justifiably so. However, in the municipal elections last week, pro-American forces captured one third of the seats in Moscow. A great shock, slightly mitigated by the media silence that accompanied both the election and its results.

As a rule, I do not dwell much on internal Russian politics (as opposed to foreign relations). They are parochial, obscure and not democratic. That is true for internal politics in every country I am aware of, but in Russia, they aren’t even competitive. Kremlin wiseguys try and fix the results with all the subtleness of Democratic primaries under Ms Debbie Wasserman Schultz. This time they had a seemingly brilliant idea: wouldn’t it be nice if few people would turn up at the election booths? Only those requested to vote? So they had zero publicity, zero announcements, zero TV coverage. People were vaguely aware of the municipal elections but the affair was so low profile that very few cared to attend: slightly over ten per cent of the electorate. The cynical subterfuge flopped badly.

In Moscow (which is the only place in Russia that counts) the three main opposition parties, the Communists and the Nationalists, as well as Kremlin-friendly Socialists, were been decimated. Their votes had been snatched by pro-Western liberals, self-described as “those of good genes”, “the fair-faced ones”, “handshake-worthy”; all these epithets vaguely connected in Russian mind with prosperous Jewishness, of sorts, or with Jewified Soviet nomenclature. The best-known names include Ms Lucy Stein, a young Jewish journalist of some notoriety – she installed plaster copies of her breasts and filmed a staged act of a little boy being roughly treated by Putin’s police. Another one is Mr Maxim Katz, a young Jewish activist – he organized the delivery of flowers to the place of the opposition leader Mr Nemtsov’s assassination, allegedly with some profit for himself.

These youngsters (in their early twenties) have been led by Mr Dmitry Gudkov, a Russian Parliament Member and a son of a Russian Parliament Member. This sounds like the House of Lords, but Gudkov the Senior is an ex-KGB colonel, an oligarch and the owner of a bailiff business, rather than a hereditary peer. Gudkov’s people made a loose coalition with Yabloko (Apple, in Russian), a liberal party of some prominence in the Yeltsin years. They are against Putin’s policies, for the restoration of the Crimea to the Ukraine and for an alliance with the liberal West.

While other parties didn’t give a hoot, the liberals cared to come to the neglected elections, and they delivered their voters to the booths. For that purpose, they imported American technology, and one of Sanders’ operatives, a Russian-born Mr Vitali Shklyarov, who had come to set up what they called “a political Uber”, a web app for fielding candidates and getting voters. In addition, they vastly overspent their competitors.

Democracy in action? Forsooth! This was a clear-cut example of real (as opposed to imaginary) interference in foreign elections. While endless FBI probes have never produced any tangible proof of Russian interference in the US elections, and the Facebook investigation “revealed that it had sold as much as $150,000 in political ads to pro-Kremlin entities between 2015 and 2017”, the US interference in recent Moscow elections had been vast, powerful and effective. The pro-American forces spent over sixty million dollar in Moscow alone by very conservative estimates, and probably much more. And the funds came from abroad.

The very idea of Russian interference in the US elections had been flattering but silly. The Russians are not in the same league, in speaking of political technologies. The Americans are much more masterful, being trained in a competitive environment. The Russians’ only chance to have fair elections is adopting another American technology, namely the active fight against foreign interference. The Kremlin could and should investigate the path of every US buck to the Stein-Katz Gang, and deal with it as harshly as Americans are dealing with imaginary Russian interference. But would they? I doubt it. The wiseguys who mismanaged elections for Kremlin will do all they can to kill the story. No important Russian media carried it, by direct orders from Kremlin.

We have proof to back up our claims of the US interference in the Russian elections: a confession made by the coordinator for Open Russia, a political body created by Mr Michael Khodorkovsky. This oligarch, once the richest man in Russia, did nine years in a Russian jail for massive tax evasion, white-collar crimes, organized crime and conspiracy for murder, as brutal and ruthless a shark as ever swam murky waters of Russian business and politics.

Mr Khodorkovsky had been an American agent of influence for many years. Since being pardoned by President Putin, he moved abroad and became the focal point for the US-led clandestine campaign for regime change in Russia. Together with other exiled (and wanted) oligarchs, Tel Aviv-based Mr Nevzlin and London-based Mr Chichvarkin, Mr Khodorkovsky funnels money to Russia’s pro-Western opposition.

His coordinator Ms Maria Baronova had been quite close to Mr Khodorkovsky but parted with him some time ago. In her Facebook blog she admits that “Gudkov and Katz are a secret project of M. B. Khodorkovsky” while other elements of the opposition are a public project of Mr Khodorkovsky. In other words, the whole campaign has been organized from Washington, or perhaps from Langley.

As we learned from Wikileaks-published State Department cables, this is the current trend of CIA for orchestrating regime change: instead of sending money directly to the opposition with a courier, they employ oligarchs as go-between. This mode has been used in Syria since 2006, as well as in Lebanon, and now is being applied in Moscow.

ORDER IT NOW

The winners of the recent municipal elections in Moscow weren’t just the “fair-faced” children of nomenclature, but appointees of the US deep state. They did it using American know-how and American money. This is the real and very successful interference, and the organisers got away with it.

The Russian post-Soviet political system as organized by Putin’s wiseguys should share the blame. The Communists, Nationalists of Mr Zhirinovsky and Socialists of Mr Mironov have been tamed and house-broken so efficiently that they lost their balls, their will power, their desire for victory – and their voters, as well. People stopped to care about them. The ruling party United Russia isn’t better; it is a toothless clone of the toothless CPSU, the late Soviet Union Communist Party that was dismantled by Gorbachev and Yeltsin without a single objection from millions of card-carrying members. It is a party of people who want to have power and its privileges.

The Ukraine had been ruled by a similar Party of the Regions. Led by Mr Victor Yanukovych, the party fell to pieces after the coup, its members deserting the sinking ship as fast as they could. United Russia will also run away in a case of trouble; they will helplessly watch Mr Khodorkovsky enter the gates of the Kremlin and probably applaud him. The United Russia’s 70% of vote is no guarantee of support for Mr Putin’s independent course. It would be better for Putin to rely upon smaller but more reliable and devoted cadres. Lenin used to say, ‘a small anchovy is better than a big cockroach’.

(This is true for other countries, too, as Mr Trump and Mr Corbyn discovered: their big parties just aren’t reliable. A small and reliable party of their dedicated supporters would be a better bet.)

The Kremlin spokesmen comfort themselves and others by stressing very limited powers of the elected deputies. By law, they may deal with municipal questions only. However, it is not unusual for such bodies to reach for more power in a revolutionary situation. In France, in 1789, the elected parliament was intended to be an advisory to the monarch, but very soon it assumed all the powers and chopped off the king’s head. In the USSR, in 1991, the Russian Federation parliament had very few rights being subservient to the Soviet parliament, but it assumed rights and broke up the USSR.

Forget about Mr Navalny. Perhaps we should get used to the idea that the next president of Russia will be called Maxim Katz, and Lucy Stern his Foreign Minister. That is, unless Mr Putin will do a better job at the forthcoming Presidential elections.

Israel Shamir can be reached at adam@israelshamir.net

This article was first published at The Unz Review.

 
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  1. peterAUS says:

    media silence that accompanied both the election and its results.

    ….internal Russian politics (as opposed to foreign relations). They are parochial, obscure and not democratic.

    Kremlin wiseguys try and fix the results with all the subtleness of Democratic primaries under Ms Debbie Wasserman Schultz.

    they had zero publicity, zero announcements, zero TV coverage.
    The Russian post-Soviet political system as organized by Putin’s wiseguys should share the blame.

    Don’t say…..

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    • Replies: @Gerard2

    they had zero publicity, zero announcements, zero TV coverage.
    The Russian post-Soviet political system as organized by Putin’s wiseguys should share the blame.
     
    Shamir is simply talking bollocks. There was more than enough publicity. I was watching Rossiya24 and they had full analysis during and after the election. Yabloko guys interviewed as well as the major parties. Not to mention the newspapers,radio and so on.
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  2. 5371 says:

    A law should be passed making it compulsory to swear an oath affirming that Crimea is part of Russia in order to hold any office. That was effective in dealing with similar vermin in Hong Kong. More fun, of course, would be to shoot them down like dogs in the street, and hopefully that will happen one day.

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    • Replies: @iffen
    would be to shoot them down like dogs in the street, and hopefully that will happen one day

    Yes, nothing says electoral democracy like large scale killing of candidates.
    , @jack ryan
    Maybe a bit much on the shooting them in the street.

    M'thinks Czar Vladimir Putin the great will handle this same as he handled that Yukos Oil Yid Oligarch who tried to set up CNN "American" (not) style TV media in Mother Russia.

    Putin put this Yid oligarch in a public cage then sentenced him to hard labor in Siberia:

    http://static3.businessinsider.com/image/526969d569beddbd21e18b46-1200-600/khodorkovsky-cage-1.jpg
    , @Anatoly Karlin
    What do you have against dogs anyway? :)
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  3. Shamir is such an entertaining writer! Entertaining and informing in surprising ways.

    ‘Lenin used to say, ‘a small anchovy is better than a big cockroach’.” — Israel Shamir

    I can’t wait to use that lovely apothegm around here where I live. No one will have any idea what I am talking about!

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  4. WHAT says:

    Please, in Russian consciousness “handshake-worthy” defines the libshit jew. It`s never even said without open disdain.

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  5. Brabantian says: • Website

    There is a non-discussed ‘elephant in the room’ in Israel Shamir’s article above, seen especially where Shamir writes:

    No important Russian media carried it, by direct orders from Kremlin

    And why indeed is Vladimir Putin so indulgent of the Western powers carrying out their influence in Russia?

    Is it perhaps because it is a fake story that Putin is ‘opposition’ to the West? … Let’s recall the great British truth researcher Antony Sutton (1925-2002), an economist who was invited to the USA where he discovered that the USA had been transferring technology to the Soviets all along since World War II, & that the entire ‘Cold War’ was a manipulated fraud bringing riches to both USA & Soviet elites … Israel was a key point for the tech being transferred. Putin of course came out of the KGB playing this game in the Israel-Moscow-Washington triangle.

    Sutton proved beyond any shadow of doubt, that global ‘Big Power Conflict’ has always been a sham & fraud since the early 20th century. Today we can see the same game Sutton described a half-century ago, fully clear in just one man: Jewish billionaire Sheldon Adelson, the 20th richest person in the world:
    - Sheldon Adelson owns the most dominant media in Israel, & has been the major backer of Israeli Prime Minister Bibi Netanyahu
    - Sheldon Adelson makes most of his billions in China, & as gambling king of Macau he is fully integrated into the highest echelons of Beijing’s government
    - Sheldon Adelson is very close to the Russian billionaires who surround Vladimir Putin, Putin who consults regularly with ‘Putin’s Rabbi’ of the Israeli-Mossad-tied Chabad Jewish religious organisation also involving Donald Trump’s daughter Ivanka & son-in-law Jared Kushner
    - Sheldon Adelson is the top USA Republican Party king-maker of the United States, & the Republican-dominated US Congress, both House & Senate, are fully beholden to Adelson & how he wants them to vote

    So we have Israel-USA-China-Russia, Sheldon Adelson with the elites of all of them.

    We can see this further in considering 4 global hoaxes:
    (a) The hoax that there are nuclear weapons, enabling big power terror & theft of taxpayer trillions – there are multiple proofs now that, e.g., Hiroshima was a chemical fire-bombing war crime, just like Tokyo, Yokohama, Osaka, Dresden, Hamburg; Swedish as nuclear engineer Anders Björkman has been arguing for years – For a recent overview of why Hiroshima etc was not a ‘nuclear’ or ‘atomic bomb’ explosion:

    http://www.newnationalist.net/2017/08/01/was-hiroshima-firebombed-and-not-nuked/

    (b) The space travel hoaxes, above all the laughably ridiculous alleged USA ‘trips around or landing on the moon’ of 1968-72 … why do all major powers play along with this?
    (c) The hoaxes of the USA 9-11, with Russia’s Putin giving full support to the USA government fairy tales about how the NYC World Trade Centre towers went down on 11 Sep 2001 … some Russians say there is a ‘deal’ where, in exchange, the USA doesn’t say anything about similar Russian anti-Muslim ‘false flag’ terrorism, used to justify suppression of Chechen indepedence so Moscow could hold onto the Chechnya-Dagestan oil & gas revenues for Gazprom
    (d) The laughable frauds of Dick Cheney’s & Zbig Brzezinski family’s friends ‘Edward Snowden’ & the not-really-living-at-the-London-Ecuador-Embassy, just-there-for-meetings ‘Julian Assange’ … who have left a trail of people dead or imprisoned after being in contact with these fakers (jailed: Reality Leigh Winner, Lauri Love; dead: Seth Rich, Peter W Smith) … Snowden who allegedly first ‘leaked’ to Dick Cheney’s pal & biographer at the CIA’s Washington Post HA … Report that major governments have on the Snowden fraud, originally presented to Moscow’s FSB & SVR

    http://www.veteranstoday.com/2016/09/21/russia-govt-report-snowden-greenwald-are-cia-frauds/

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    • Replies: @Sam Shama
    I was somewhat with you through the portion discussing Anthony Sutton's analysis while he was at Hoover, but I think you assign a bit too much credit to Adelson's influence today.
    , @peterAUS

    And why indeed is Vladimir Putin so indulgent of the Western powers carrying out their influence in Russia?
     
    That's a hard one......

    Maybe the usual: Power and Money?

    Keep playing the game. Keep on top. Enjoy while it lasts.Hope it will last long.

    Quite reasonable I'd say.
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  6. You know, if Vlad and his gang were as evil as Western MSM and politicos makes them out to be, these folks wouldn’t have even lived to see the election.

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    • Replies: @pyrrhus
    Indeed, they wouldn't even have dared to stand for office....
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  7. iffen says:
    @5371
    A law should be passed making it compulsory to swear an oath affirming that Crimea is part of Russia in order to hold any office. That was effective in dealing with similar vermin in Hong Kong. More fun, of course, would be to shoot them down like dogs in the street, and hopefully that will happen one day.

    would be to shoot them down like dogs in the street, and hopefully that will happen one day

    Yes, nothing says electoral democracy like large scale killing of candidates.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Parbes
    These are not "democratic candidates", disingenuous chutzpah-filled Zio-boy; they are open traitors being FUNDED AND DIRECTED by a foreign enemy nation that is threatening war and is currently engaged in all kinds of hostile actions against "their" country - as is clearly explained in the article. Are you too stupid to read and understand, or do you take everyone else on this website to be so?

    But I guess deliberate cognitive dissonance is par for the course for you arrogant neo-Orwellian Anglo-Zio trollboys.
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  8. The problem is this.

    Lucy Stein gang is Jewish, and it is taboo to call out on Jewish influence.

    In contrast, it’s A-Okay to call out on the Russkies!

    So, Jews can infiltrate Russia, but Russia cannot do much in America.

    Read More
    • Agree: Moi
    • Replies: @Jake
    It is about the Anglo-Zionist Empire. It is not just a Jewish thing. It is the current stage of the now ancient alliance, forged in steel by no less than Oliver Cromwell, between WASPs and Jews.

    You cannot separate the 'Jewish problem' from the 'WASP problem.'
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  9. Parbes says:
    @iffen
    would be to shoot them down like dogs in the street, and hopefully that will happen one day

    Yes, nothing says electoral democracy like large scale killing of candidates.

    These are not “democratic candidates”, disingenuous chutzpah-filled Zio-boy; they are open traitors being FUNDED AND DIRECTED by a foreign enemy nation that is threatening war and is currently engaged in all kinds of hostile actions against “their” country – as is clearly explained in the article. Are you too stupid to read and understand, or do you take everyone else on this website to be so?

    But I guess deliberate cognitive dissonance is par for the course for you arrogant neo-Orwellian Anglo-Zio trollboys.

    Read More
    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    That was a beautiful and justified putdown.
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  10. Jake says:
    @Priss Factor
    The problem is this.

    Lucy Stein gang is Jewish, and it is taboo to call out on Jewish influence.

    In contrast, it's A-Okay to call out on the Russkies!

    So, Jews can infiltrate Russia, but Russia cannot do much in America.

    It is about the Anglo-Zionist Empire. It is not just a Jewish thing. It is the current stage of the now ancient alliance, forged in steel by no less than Oliver Cromwell, between WASPs and Jews.

    You cannot separate the ‘Jewish problem’ from the ‘WASP problem.’

    Read More
    • Replies: @DFH
    Very convenient narrative for a Jew to be pushing, isn't it?
    , @Wally

    "We can force through any lie. It just has to be big enough so that a normal person says, 'Well that cannot be a lie!'. Then the lie cannot be recognized as such. And the lie has to be repeated continuously. Then it is believed and is powerful because it is the belief in a 'truth.'"

    - from 'Propaganda', by Zionist Jew Edward Bernays
     
    , @Bill
    Cromwell was a WASP, but not all WASPs are Cromwell-ish.
    , @bjondo
    Let's make things up.
    Jew best at turning history into comic books.
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  11. The Zionist Bolsheviks overthrew the czar and then proceeded to murder the czar and his family and some 60 million Russians for their satanic communist cabal and the vast overwhelming members of the communist party in Russia were jews, and now these Zionists want to do to America what they did to Russia in 1917, go figure.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Gil
    Liar!

    So tell us how the satanic bolshies managed to dispose of 60 million corpses. That's twice the population of Beijing! At, say, 1000 per, that's 60,000 mass graves.
    , @Anatoly Karlin
    They wouldn't mind having another go at Russia either.
    , @Aghasty
    DESERT FOX, you are a piece of work. The communists killed 60 million Russians? Do you know what 60 million Russians would be in a nation that at the time had no more than 130 million?

    Not only do you have a completely CIA/Oligarch-aproved hatred for communism and love for royalty—of apparently any kind including the czarist ultra reactionary variety—but you have no qualms in fabricating or repeating ridiculous lies about the Soviet Union, to add to the already enormous mountain of falsehoods. How this site permits this level of nonsense escapes me. All in the name of free speech I suppose, even if it gives the right of public speech to imbeciles and blatant ignoramuses.

    , @Serge Krieger
    If memory does not fail me, Bolsheviks had nothing to do with Tsar overthrow. They were in Switzerland and revolution was surprise for them, even for Lenin. The fact however does not negate the fact that Nikolai II overthrow was a very positive event since he was unfit to rule in the first place and the whole Empire was rotten to the core and dying. By the time he got the boot Nikolai had zero support in the country.
    I notice you have read Solzhenitsyn. I have not even touched his opuses. If you are aware, archives of those times are opened and numbers Solzhenitsyn invented in his book are not supported by real statistics.
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  12. I don’t see why this party is described as “pro-American”, other than as a rather silly attempt to divert attention away from Russiagate.

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    • Replies: @Avery
    {The pro-American forces spent over sixty million dollar in Moscow alone by very conservative estimates, and probably much more. And the funds came from abroad.}

    {We have proof to back up our claims of the US interference in the Russian elections: a confession made by the coordinator for Open Russia, a political body created by Mr Michael Khodorkovsky.}

    "And the funds came from abroad."

    Which part of 'abroad' do you think those $60 million came from?
    You think US would fund a political 5th column and spent that kind of money which is not pro-American?

    , @anon
    You mean, no evidence but gut feelings of Mrs. Clnton and the NYT editors re "Russiagate" are much stronger factor than the documented evidence of the "pro-American forces spent over sixty million dollars in Moscow alone... and the funds came from abroad..."
    Let's talk arithmetic. There is currently a mega-hysterics over the probable involvement (via the Facebook) of some probably Russians who probably wanted to affect the elections in the US. This probable involvement was estimated as worth $100.000.
    Now, Mr. Michael Kenny, let's compare $100.000 that were probably spent on the Facebook by probably Russians to probably affect the US elections with the $60.000.000 spent by the pro-American forces to affect elections in Moscow alone.

    "Mr Khodorkovsky had been an American agent of influence for many years. Since being pardoned by President Putin, he moved abroad and became the focal point for the US-led clandestine campaign for regime change in Russia. Together with other exiled (and wanted) oligarchs, Tel Aviv-based Mr Nevzlin and London-based Mr Chichvarkin, Mr Khodorkovsky funnels money to Russia’s pro-Western opposition."
    If you are still not convinced of the malignancy of the US meddling in Russian affairs, here is more about Mr. Khodorkovsky: "In October 2014, Khodorkovsky visited the U.S., delivering the keynote address at a Washington, D.C., meeting of Freedom House and giving a speech at the Council on Foreign Relations in New York." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikhail_Khodorkovsky
    The US meddling is not a probable cause; this is a well-documented involvement of the US stooge in Russian elections. Until you show any evidence of Russian Federation' meddling into the US elections, your insinuations re Russiagate will remain insinuations - a slander, actually.
    If you care about the purity of the US politics, see no farther than the AIPAC and the Saudi's contributions to the Clinton Foundation and such.

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  13. Gil says:

    Sutton was a fraud.

    “[He] was invited to the US”. What does that tell you? Tells me that his purpose was to smear the Bolsheviks who set Russia on the path to greatness.

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    • Replies: @DESERT FOX
    The communists were funded by the Zionist bankers and their purpose was to destroy Russia , see Anthony Suttons book Wall Street and the Bolshevik Revolution, also see my reply to you on the 60 million Russians murdered by the Zionist communists.
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  14. Gil says:
    @DESERT FOX
    The Zionist Bolsheviks overthrew the czar and then proceeded to murder the czar and his family and some 60 million Russians for their satanic communist cabal and the vast overwhelming members of the communist party in Russia were jews, and now these Zionists want to do to America what they did to Russia in 1917, go figure.

    Liar!

    So tell us how the satanic bolshies managed to dispose of 60 million corpses. That’s twice the population of Beijing! At, say, 1000 per, that’s 60,000 mass graves.

    Read More
    • Replies: @hyperbola
    Would it make you feel better if it were only >20 million - as this israeli source suggests?

    Ynetnews Opinion - Stalin's Jews
    https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3342999,00.html
    We mustn't forget that some of greatest murderers of modern times were Jewish

    Here's a particularly forlorn historical date: Almost 90 years ago, between the 19th and 20th of December 1917, in the midst of the Bolshevik revolution and civil war, Lenin signed a decree calling for the establishment of The All-Russian Extraordinary Commission for Combating Counter-Revolution and Sabotage, also known as Cheka.
    Within a short period of time, Cheka became the largest and cruelest state security organization. Its organizational structure was changed every few years, as were its names: From Cheka to GPU, later to NKVD, and later to KGB.
    We cannot know with certainty the number of deaths Cheka was responsible for in its various manifestations, but the number is surely at least 20 million, including victims of the forced collectivization, the hunger, large purges, expulsions, banishments, executions, and mass death at Gulags......
    ..... And us, the Jews? An Israeli student finishes high school without ever hearing the name "Genrikh Yagoda," the greatest Jewish murderer of the 20th Century, the GPU's deputy commander and the founder and commander of the NKVD. Yagoda diligently implemented Stalin's collectivization orders and is responsible for the deaths of at least 10 million people. His Jewish deputies established and managed the Gulag system..... In 1934, according to published statistics, 38.5 percent of those holding the most senior posts in the Soviet security apparatuses were of Jewish origin. ....
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  15. Avery says:
    @Michael Kenny
    I don't see why this party is described as "pro-American", other than as a rather silly attempt to divert attention away from Russiagate.

    {The pro-American forces spent over sixty million dollar in Moscow alone by very conservative estimates, and probably much more. And the funds came from abroad.}

    {We have proof to back up our claims of the US interference in the Russian elections: a confession made by the coordinator for Open Russia, a political body created by Mr Michael Khodorkovsky.}

    “And the funds came from abroad.”

    Which part of ‘abroad’ do you think those $60 million came from?
    You think US would fund a political 5th column and spent that kind of money which is not pro-American?

    Read More
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  16. Check the works of Alexander Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago and other various of his writings and also read Harvest of Sorrow by Robert Conquest , this documents the 11 million who were murdered in the Ukraine by the communists, and there are other books too numerous to mention.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Thirdeye
    Robert Conquest was a Cold War ideologue who relied on discredited sources and Solzhenitsyn never substantiated his flights of fancy.

    http://www.campin.me.uk/Politics/purging-stalin.txt
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  17. jack ryan says: • Website

    Sounds like more Lev Bronsteins are leaving their Lower East Side New York City rent controlled apartments, migrating to Moscow, changing their names to something more Russian sounding like “Leon Trotsky” and pulling all kinds of deceitful stunts and packaging it under some lie like

    “American style democracy and freedom”…

    Vladimir Putin and his folks know how to deal with such creatures. Look what happened to the Yukos Oil Oligarch that tried similar stunts:

    Putin put this #*$&# in a public cage/jail cell then sentenced him to hard labor in Siberia.

    Russians know how to deal with such types and next month is the 100th anniversary of the “Russian (not) Revolution” – Russian Orthodox Christians will be ready.

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    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    Congress, the judiciary, the cabinet, top media execs and talking heads, and the top Fed agency people merit something similar -- only when the law is changed to authorize it, of course.
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  18. jack ryan says: • Website
    @5371
    A law should be passed making it compulsory to swear an oath affirming that Crimea is part of Russia in order to hold any office. That was effective in dealing with similar vermin in Hong Kong. More fun, of course, would be to shoot them down like dogs in the street, and hopefully that will happen one day.

    Maybe a bit much on the shooting them in the street.

    M’thinks Czar Vladimir Putin the great will handle this same as he handled that Yukos Oil Yid Oligarch who tried to set up CNN “American” (not) style TV media in Mother Russia.

    Putin put this Yid oligarch in a public cage then sentenced him to hard labor in Siberia:

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  19. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    “This time they had a seemingly brilliant idea: wouldn’t it be nice if few people would turn up at the election booths? Only those requested to vote? So they had zero publicity, zero announcements, zero TV coverage. ”

    Then they were working in tandem with the US backers of the fresh-faced newly elected leaders. An insider-outsider manoeuvre that probably slipped by Putin. But I suppose Shamir sees this.

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  20. @Gil
    Sutton was a fraud.

    "[He] was invited to the US". What does that tell you? Tells me that his purpose was to smear the Bolsheviks who set Russia on the path to greatness.

    The communists were funded by the Zionist bankers and their purpose was to destroy Russia , see Anthony Suttons book Wall Street and the Bolshevik Revolution, also see my reply to you on the 60 million Russians murdered by the Zionist communists.

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  21. Erebus says:

    What astonishing revelations you bring, Mr.Shamir.
    That these machinations were going on under Putin’s, and his staff’s nose in the Kremlin surely beggars belief. The enemy is inside the castle walls, acts with impunity, and the President’s staff is either unaware or indifferent?
    When one also considers Kadyrov’s recent statements regarding the so-called “Rohingya” in Myanmar, it looks like VVP has some serious house-cleaning to do this autumn or a very long winter is coming. Some wheels, nay axles seem to be coming loose on this wagon.

    Do the words “Stalin’s purges” ring a bell? We may be hearing them soon if Putin reacts to this.

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  22. Sam Shama says:
    @Brabantian
    There is a non-discussed 'elephant in the room' in Israel Shamir's article above, seen especially where Shamir writes:


    No important Russian media carried it, by direct orders from Kremlin

     

    And why indeed is Vladimir Putin so indulgent of the Western powers carrying out their influence in Russia?

    Is it perhaps because it is a fake story that Putin is 'opposition' to the West? ... Let's recall the great British truth researcher Antony Sutton (1925-2002), an economist who was invited to the USA where he discovered that the USA had been transferring technology to the Soviets all along since World War II, & that the entire 'Cold War' was a manipulated fraud bringing riches to both USA & Soviet elites ... Israel was a key point for the tech being transferred. Putin of course came out of the KGB playing this game in the Israel-Moscow-Washington triangle.

    Sutton proved beyond any shadow of doubt, that global 'Big Power Conflict' has always been a sham & fraud since the early 20th century. Today we can see the same game Sutton described a half-century ago, fully clear in just one man: Jewish billionaire Sheldon Adelson, the 20th richest person in the world:
    - Sheldon Adelson owns the most dominant media in Israel, & has been the major backer of Israeli Prime Minister Bibi Netanyahu
    - Sheldon Adelson makes most of his billions in China, & as gambling king of Macau he is fully integrated into the highest echelons of Beijing's government
    - Sheldon Adelson is very close to the Russian billionaires who surround Vladimir Putin, Putin who consults regularly with 'Putin's Rabbi' of the Israeli-Mossad-tied Chabad Jewish religious organisation also involving Donald Trump's daughter Ivanka & son-in-law Jared Kushner
    - Sheldon Adelson is the top USA Republican Party king-maker of the United States, & the Republican-dominated US Congress, both House & Senate, are fully beholden to Adelson & how he wants them to vote

    So we have Israel-USA-China-Russia, Sheldon Adelson with the elites of all of them.

    We can see this further in considering 4 global hoaxes:
    (a) The hoax that there are nuclear weapons, enabling big power terror & theft of taxpayer trillions - there are multiple proofs now that, e.g., Hiroshima was a chemical fire-bombing war crime, just like Tokyo, Yokohama, Osaka, Dresden, Hamburg; Swedish as nuclear engineer Anders Björkman has been arguing for years - For a recent overview of why Hiroshima etc was not a 'nuclear' or 'atomic bomb' explosion:
    http://www.newnationalist.net/2017/08/01/was-hiroshima-firebombed-and-not-nuked/
    (b) The space travel hoaxes, above all the laughably ridiculous alleged USA 'trips around or landing on the moon' of 1968-72 ... why do all major powers play along with this?
    (c) The hoaxes of the USA 9-11, with Russia's Putin giving full support to the USA government fairy tales about how the NYC World Trade Centre towers went down on 11 Sep 2001 ... some Russians say there is a 'deal' where, in exchange, the USA doesn't say anything about similar Russian anti-Muslim 'false flag' terrorism, used to justify suppression of Chechen indepedence so Moscow could hold onto the Chechnya-Dagestan oil & gas revenues for Gazprom
    (d) The laughable frauds of Dick Cheney's & Zbig Brzezinski family's friends 'Edward Snowden' & the not-really-living-at-the-London-Ecuador-Embassy, just-there-for-meetings 'Julian Assange' ... who have left a trail of people dead or imprisoned after being in contact with these fakers (jailed: Reality Leigh Winner, Lauri Love; dead: Seth Rich, Peter W Smith) ... Snowden who allegedly first 'leaked' to Dick Cheney's pal & biographer at the CIA's Washington Post HA ... Report that major governments have on the Snowden fraud, originally presented to Moscow's FSB & SVR
    http://www.veteranstoday.com/2016/09/21/russia-govt-report-snowden-greenwald-are-cia-frauds/

    I was somewhat with you through the portion discussing Anthony Sutton’s analysis while he was at Hoover, but I think you assign a bit too much credit to Adelson’s influence today.

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    • Replies: @Art
    but I think you assign a bit too much credit to Adelson’s influence today.

    Oh my – here we see the soft hand of Jew terrorism – just a little slap to remind the commenter to get back in line and leave the Jew Adelson alone.

    ADL hasbara rules say, it is good to not use “Hitler, Nazi, KKK, anti-Semite, Jew hater” all the time.

    Kudos Mr. Sam. Your Stockholm Syndrome approach is right on target.

    Think Peace --- Art

    p.s. Jew money is a curse on all of humanity.

    p.s. It makes a joke of democracy.
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  23. DFH says:
    @Jake
    It is about the Anglo-Zionist Empire. It is not just a Jewish thing. It is the current stage of the now ancient alliance, forged in steel by no less than Oliver Cromwell, between WASPs and Jews.

    You cannot separate the 'Jewish problem' from the 'WASP problem.'

    Very convenient narrative for a Jew to be pushing, isn’t it?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jake
    Now that you mention it, Cromwell never met a Jew he didn't expel from England. And that was because Anglo-Saxon Puritanism was NOT a Judaizing heresy. And there is no history of WASPs ever hating as inferior, much less actively persecuting, non-WASP whites.
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  24. Alden says:

    Does anyone know anything about something called ” Most special fellows program”?

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  25. Wally says:
    @Jake
    It is about the Anglo-Zionist Empire. It is not just a Jewish thing. It is the current stage of the now ancient alliance, forged in steel by no less than Oliver Cromwell, between WASPs and Jews.

    You cannot separate the 'Jewish problem' from the 'WASP problem.'

    “We can force through any lie. It just has to be big enough so that a normal person says, ‘Well that cannot be a lie!’. Then the lie cannot be recognized as such. And the lie has to be repeated continuously. Then it is believed and is powerful because it is the belief in a ‘truth.’”

    - from ‘Propaganda’, by Zionist Jew Edward Bernays

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon
    Here is the entire text of Propaganda by Edward Bernays:

    http://www.historyisaweapon.org/defcon1/bernprop.html

    I am unable to find the quotation you provide. Can you please point it out for me? Thanks in advance.
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  26. Jake says:
    @DFH
    Very convenient narrative for a Jew to be pushing, isn't it?

    Now that you mention it, Cromwell never met a Jew he didn’t expel from England. And that was because Anglo-Saxon Puritanism was NOT a Judaizing heresy. And there is no history of WASPs ever hating as inferior, much less actively persecuting, non-WASP whites.

    Read More
    • Replies: @DFH
    Stop repeating E Michael Jones' silly memes.

    The puritan committee set up to investigate the readmission of the Jews actually did not decide to readmit them into Britain. It was William III who did.

    And there is no history of WASPs ever hating as inferior, much less actively persecuting, non-WASP whites.
     
    Every group of whites has a history of hating and fighting other whites. That hardly distinguishes the English from the French or Germans or Russians
    , @MarkinPNW
    Ever heard of the Irish Potato famine and the corn laws? How about when the WASPs threw the native Celtic (non WASPs) Scots off their land in 18th century? And the slave raids of 17th and 18th centuries on Ireland done by the WASPs of Britain?
    , @Alden
    Jake, you really really should read up on what the English puritans did to the Irish and the French Canadiens known as the Arcadians.

    After the English puritans expelled the Arcadians from Canada they sailed to Louisiana. The plan was to sail along the Atlantic coast stopping at every harbor along the way. The stops were to keep the smaller children alive by feeding them milk, fruit vegetables etc. Also to do laundry etc.

    But the jihadi American colonists wouldn't even let the Arcadians land in American ports because they were Catholics. As a result 30 percent, mostly small children died on the voyage. Remember, this was not a military force, just a normal demographic mix of women, children and men of all ages.

    Cromwell and his wanna be Jewish puritans captured and sold into slavery in the Carribean and the American colonies 250,000 White people, a quarter of the population of Ireland.

    Puritans weren't even Christian because they stridently denied that Jesus was God. The founder, Jean Calvin loudly proclaimed " their is but one God, the G-D of Israel." Knox Cotton Mather and all the puritans and pilgrims also denied that Jesus is God and there is only one God,, the God of the Jews.

    Puritans loved the Jewish bible because of all the sex and violence. They ignored the Christian bible because there is no sex and no violence until the crucifixion.
    Cromwell and the American puritans Also forbade the celebration of all Christian festivals including the most important ones Good Friday and Easter

    Face it, the puritans were not Christians and loudly proclaimed they were not Christians.

    They also banned music and beauty in churches. So they sat in an ugly building and listened to some lunatic preacher screeching about hell and damnation. Do you have any idea how many books Henry 8 and Oliver Cromwell's gr gr gr uncle Thomas Cromwell burned during their orgy of destruction of art?

    Their spiritual descendants rule the media, Academia and the Democratic Party. The hateful, bigoted, dictatorial puritans of 1600 are the spiritual parents of the liberals of the 20 and 21 centuries.

    How did the puritans get into this discussion? I don't believe in God and that collection of Jewish and Christian myths and fables, but the puritans were the equivalent of the worst Saudi Wahabbi extremists. The puritans even had Saudi style religious police that spied to see people didn't eat hot food on the Sabbath. That was another Jewish practice they imposed.
    , @Alden
    Ever heard of the Highland Clearances?
    English genocide of the Scots to make way for sheep.

    Christians believe that both Jesus and his father Jehovah are God. Jews believe only Jehovah is G-D. Puritans loudly proclaimed that only Jehovah, the God of Israel is God.

    Puritans we're wanna be Jews. Their religion was a judaizing heresy. Why do you think they refused to call themselves Christians? Because they weren't Christians.
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  27. Rurik says:

    Mr Khodorkovsky had been an American agent of influence for many years.

    not “American” per se, but rather an agent of the Fiend

    LONDON (Agence France-Presse) – Control of Mikhail Khodorkovsky’s shares in the Russian oil giant Yukos have passed to renowned banker Jacob Rothschild, under a deal they concluded prior to Mr. Khodorkovsky’s arrest, the Sunday Times reported.

    http://rense.com/general44/ask.htm

    most of the ((Russian)) oligarchs- if not all- were Rothschild agents

    Russia went from 60 years of genocidal, Jewish-imposed commie slavery to Jewish-imposed Capitalist impoverishment and destitution in the blink of an eye.

    good it’z

    Putin is like a God/statesman for having freed Russia from the vampiric blood sucking fangs of the Fiend, even if he still has to play footsie with it from time to time.

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  28. hyperbola says:
    @Gil
    Liar!

    So tell us how the satanic bolshies managed to dispose of 60 million corpses. That's twice the population of Beijing! At, say, 1000 per, that's 60,000 mass graves.

    Would it make you feel better if it were only >20 million – as this israeli source suggests?

    Ynetnews Opinion – Stalin’s Jews

    https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3342999,00.html

    We mustn’t forget that some of greatest murderers of modern times were Jewish

    Here’s a particularly forlorn historical date: Almost 90 years ago, between the 19th and 20th of December 1917, in the midst of the Bolshevik revolution and civil war, Lenin signed a decree calling for the establishment of The All-Russian Extraordinary Commission for Combating Counter-Revolution and Sabotage, also known as Cheka.
    Within a short period of time, Cheka became the largest and cruelest state security organization. Its organizational structure was changed every few years, as were its names: From Cheka to GPU, later to NKVD, and later to KGB.
    We cannot know with certainty the number of deaths Cheka was responsible for in its various manifestations, but the number is surely at least 20 million, including victims of the forced collectivization, the hunger, large purges, expulsions, banishments, executions, and mass death at Gulags……
    ….. And us, the Jews? An Israeli student finishes high school without ever hearing the name “Genrikh Yagoda,” the greatest Jewish murderer of the 20th Century, the GPU’s deputy commander and the founder and commander of the NKVD. Yagoda diligently implemented Stalin’s collectivization orders and is responsible for the deaths of at least 10 million people. His Jewish deputies established and managed the Gulag system….. In 1934, according to published statistics, 38.5 percent of those holding the most senior posts in the Soviet security apparatuses were of Jewish origin. ….

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  29. DFH says:
    @Jake
    Now that you mention it, Cromwell never met a Jew he didn't expel from England. And that was because Anglo-Saxon Puritanism was NOT a Judaizing heresy. And there is no history of WASPs ever hating as inferior, much less actively persecuting, non-WASP whites.

    Stop repeating E Michael Jones’ silly memes.

    The puritan committee set up to investigate the readmission of the Jews actually did not decide to readmit them into Britain. It was William III who did.

    And there is no history of WASPs ever hating as inferior, much less actively persecuting, non-WASP whites.

    Every group of whites has a history of hating and fighting other whites. That hardly distinguishes the English from the French or Germans or Russians

    Read More
    • Replies: @Alden
    Excuse me. When Oliver Cromwell was Lord Protector of England in the 1640s he let Dutch Jews into England. It's well known in every Jewish and English history book.

    William 3 was a tool of the Amsterdam Jews that wanted to set up an English national bank which happened within months of William's conquest of England.

    BTW in the 1600s the English had forgotten about the period of Saxon rule. They called themselves English. It was only during the early 1800s during the Romantic period that the English discovered their Saxon heritage. It was unknown until Walter Scott wrote Ivanhoe. Then the upcoming industrialist mercantile classes began claiming to be Saxons opposed to the declining argricultural gentry and aristocratic classes who were deemed descendants of the Normans.

    Recent DNA studies of thousands of native English has proved that they are descendants of the ancient Celts, not a few thousand Saxon, Danish and Norman invaders.
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  30. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Wally

    "We can force through any lie. It just has to be big enough so that a normal person says, 'Well that cannot be a lie!'. Then the lie cannot be recognized as such. And the lie has to be repeated continuously. Then it is believed and is powerful because it is the belief in a 'truth.'"

    - from 'Propaganda', by Zionist Jew Edward Bernays
     

    Here is the entire text of Propaganda by Edward Bernays:

    http://www.historyisaweapon.org/defcon1/bernprop.html

    I am unable to find the quotation you provide. Can you please point it out for me? Thanks in advance.

    Read More
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  31. The Russians are not in the same league, in speaking of political technologies.

    Some would argue that Russian “fair faced ones” wrote the book on “political technologies”:

    Funny how it is all unfolding precisely as he predicted.

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  32. peterAUS says:
    @Brabantian
    There is a non-discussed 'elephant in the room' in Israel Shamir's article above, seen especially where Shamir writes:


    No important Russian media carried it, by direct orders from Kremlin

     

    And why indeed is Vladimir Putin so indulgent of the Western powers carrying out their influence in Russia?

    Is it perhaps because it is a fake story that Putin is 'opposition' to the West? ... Let's recall the great British truth researcher Antony Sutton (1925-2002), an economist who was invited to the USA where he discovered that the USA had been transferring technology to the Soviets all along since World War II, & that the entire 'Cold War' was a manipulated fraud bringing riches to both USA & Soviet elites ... Israel was a key point for the tech being transferred. Putin of course came out of the KGB playing this game in the Israel-Moscow-Washington triangle.

    Sutton proved beyond any shadow of doubt, that global 'Big Power Conflict' has always been a sham & fraud since the early 20th century. Today we can see the same game Sutton described a half-century ago, fully clear in just one man: Jewish billionaire Sheldon Adelson, the 20th richest person in the world:
    - Sheldon Adelson owns the most dominant media in Israel, & has been the major backer of Israeli Prime Minister Bibi Netanyahu
    - Sheldon Adelson makes most of his billions in China, & as gambling king of Macau he is fully integrated into the highest echelons of Beijing's government
    - Sheldon Adelson is very close to the Russian billionaires who surround Vladimir Putin, Putin who consults regularly with 'Putin's Rabbi' of the Israeli-Mossad-tied Chabad Jewish religious organisation also involving Donald Trump's daughter Ivanka & son-in-law Jared Kushner
    - Sheldon Adelson is the top USA Republican Party king-maker of the United States, & the Republican-dominated US Congress, both House & Senate, are fully beholden to Adelson & how he wants them to vote

    So we have Israel-USA-China-Russia, Sheldon Adelson with the elites of all of them.

    We can see this further in considering 4 global hoaxes:
    (a) The hoax that there are nuclear weapons, enabling big power terror & theft of taxpayer trillions - there are multiple proofs now that, e.g., Hiroshima was a chemical fire-bombing war crime, just like Tokyo, Yokohama, Osaka, Dresden, Hamburg; Swedish as nuclear engineer Anders Björkman has been arguing for years - For a recent overview of why Hiroshima etc was not a 'nuclear' or 'atomic bomb' explosion:
    http://www.newnationalist.net/2017/08/01/was-hiroshima-firebombed-and-not-nuked/
    (b) The space travel hoaxes, above all the laughably ridiculous alleged USA 'trips around or landing on the moon' of 1968-72 ... why do all major powers play along with this?
    (c) The hoaxes of the USA 9-11, with Russia's Putin giving full support to the USA government fairy tales about how the NYC World Trade Centre towers went down on 11 Sep 2001 ... some Russians say there is a 'deal' where, in exchange, the USA doesn't say anything about similar Russian anti-Muslim 'false flag' terrorism, used to justify suppression of Chechen indepedence so Moscow could hold onto the Chechnya-Dagestan oil & gas revenues for Gazprom
    (d) The laughable frauds of Dick Cheney's & Zbig Brzezinski family's friends 'Edward Snowden' & the not-really-living-at-the-London-Ecuador-Embassy, just-there-for-meetings 'Julian Assange' ... who have left a trail of people dead or imprisoned after being in contact with these fakers (jailed: Reality Leigh Winner, Lauri Love; dead: Seth Rich, Peter W Smith) ... Snowden who allegedly first 'leaked' to Dick Cheney's pal & biographer at the CIA's Washington Post HA ... Report that major governments have on the Snowden fraud, originally presented to Moscow's FSB & SVR
    http://www.veteranstoday.com/2016/09/21/russia-govt-report-snowden-greenwald-are-cia-frauds/

    And why indeed is Vladimir Putin so indulgent of the Western powers carrying out their influence in Russia?

    That’s a hard one……

    Maybe the usual: Power and Money?

    Keep playing the game. Keep on top. Enjoy while it lasts.Hope it will last long.

    Quite reasonable I’d say.

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  33. Moi says:

    Compared to our own Big Enchilada, Putin is pleasant enough, but he is weak and not to bright politically.

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  34. MarkinPNW says:
    @Jake
    Now that you mention it, Cromwell never met a Jew he didn't expel from England. And that was because Anglo-Saxon Puritanism was NOT a Judaizing heresy. And there is no history of WASPs ever hating as inferior, much less actively persecuting, non-WASP whites.

    Ever heard of the Irish Potato famine and the corn laws? How about when the WASPs threw the native Celtic (non WASPs) Scots off their land in 18th century? And the slave raids of 17th and 18th centuries on Ireland done by the WASPs of Britain?

    Read More
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  35. Gerard2 says:
    @peterAUS

    media silence that accompanied both the election and its results.

    ….internal Russian politics (as opposed to foreign relations). They are parochial, obscure and not democratic.

    Kremlin wiseguys try and fix the results with all the subtleness of Democratic primaries under Ms Debbie Wasserman Schultz.

    they had zero publicity, zero announcements, zero TV coverage.
    The Russian post-Soviet political system as organized by Putin’s wiseguys should share the blame.
     
    Don't say.....

    they had zero publicity, zero announcements, zero TV coverage.
    The Russian post-Soviet political system as organized by Putin’s wiseguys should share the blame.

    Shamir is simply talking bollocks. There was more than enough publicity. I was watching Rossiya24 and they had full analysis during and after the election. Yabloko guys interviewed as well as the major parties. Not to mention the newspapers,radio and so on.

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    • Replies: @peterAUS
    O.K.

    You, apparently, just shot down the main Shamir's argument as to why the regime lost so badly then.

    What would be you take on that, please ?

    Why the regime lost so badly, or, why the opposition did so well?
    , @Israel Shamir
    well, this is your opinion versus everybody's else opinion. Let us google":
    https://www.openrussia.org/notes/713542/ Elections nobody have heard of
    https://varlamov.ru/2545090.html very popular blogger saying: there was no agitation, and city workers were under order to remove every election-related notice
    same here http://echo.msk.ru/programs/sut/2051310-echo/
    and on the other side
    https://tsargrad.tv/news/opros-bolshinstvo-moskvichej-znali-o-vyborah-no-ne-prishli_84768 people knew but they didn't come - as there was no promotion of the election campaign.
    Try next time to collect some evidence before writing 'bollocks'.
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  36. Art says:
    @Sam Shama
    I was somewhat with you through the portion discussing Anthony Sutton's analysis while he was at Hoover, but I think you assign a bit too much credit to Adelson's influence today.

    but I think you assign a bit too much credit to Adelson’s influence today.

    Oh my – here we see the soft hand of Jew terrorism – just a little slap to remind the commenter to get back in line and leave the Jew Adelson alone.

    ADL hasbara rules say, it is good to not use “Hitler, Nazi, KKK, anti-Semite, Jew hater” all the time.

    Kudos Mr. Sam. Your Stockholm Syndrome approach is right on target.

    Think Peace — Art

    p.s. Jew money is a curse on all of humanity.

    p.s. It makes a joke of democracy.

    Read More
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  37. peterAUS says:
    @Gerard2

    they had zero publicity, zero announcements, zero TV coverage.
    The Russian post-Soviet political system as organized by Putin’s wiseguys should share the blame.
     
    Shamir is simply talking bollocks. There was more than enough publicity. I was watching Rossiya24 and they had full analysis during and after the election. Yabloko guys interviewed as well as the major parties. Not to mention the newspapers,radio and so on.

    O.K.

    You, apparently, just shot down the main Shamir’s argument as to why the regime lost so badly then.

    What would be you take on that, please ?

    Why the regime lost so badly, or, why the opposition did so well?

    Read More
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  38. @5371
    A law should be passed making it compulsory to swear an oath affirming that Crimea is part of Russia in order to hold any office. That was effective in dealing with similar vermin in Hong Kong. More fun, of course, would be to shoot them down like dogs in the street, and hopefully that will happen one day.

    What do you have against dogs anyway? :)

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  39. Great article, nothing to substantively disagree with here.

    However, it is not unusual for such bodies to reach for more power in a revolutionary situation. In France, in 1789, the elected parliament was intended to be an advisory to the monarch, but very soon it assumed all the powers and chopped off the king’s head. In the USSR, in 1991, the Russian Federation parliament had very few rights being subservient to the Soviet parliament, but it assumed rights and broke up the USSR.

    Though Israel is omitting the most famous such institution of them all: The Petrograd Soviet. :)

    The Ukraine had been ruled by a similar Party of the Regions. Led by Mr Victor Yanukovych, the party fell to pieces after the coup, its members deserting the sinking ship as fast as they could.

    As concerns the “real” parties, commies and liberals were neck and neck, with nationalists at half their strength, and that’s in my heavily prole district (where liberals perform poorly).

    In the center and southwest, of course, the liberals are dominant, sometimes even surpassing United Russia.

    Hypothetically, if Putin (and consequently, United Russia) were to somehow vanish tomorrow, it will be the liberals vs. the commies and the nationalists.

    And frankly, the liberals would win. They are much better funded, have more brainpower, can cooperate with each other while commies and nationalists never will. Commies have some brains but they’re too old, while nationalists have brawn on the streets but they’re too stupid on average. (I say this is an LDPR-voting nationalist myself).

    The military is strongly nationalist, but they’re probably not going to intervene, since Russia has never had an activist military in the Third World junta style.

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    • Replies: @peterAUS

    nationalists have brawn on the streets but they’re too stupid on average.
     
    Could, you, please, expand on this?
    , @iffen
    Though Israel is omitting the most famous such institution of them all: The Petrograd Soviet.

    From Wiki:

    The Constitutional Convention[1]:31 (also known as the Philadelphia Convention,[1]:31 the Federal Convention,[1]:31 or the Grand Convention at Philadelphia[2][3]) took place from May 25 to September 17, 1787, in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Although the Convention was intended to revise the Articles of Confederation, the intention from the outset of many of its proponents, chief among them James Madison and Alexander Hamilton, was to create a new government rather than fix the existing one. The delegates elected George Washington to preside over the Convention. The result of the Convention was the creation of the United States Constitution, placing the Convention among the most significant events in the history of the United States.
     
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  40. @DESERT FOX
    The Zionist Bolsheviks overthrew the czar and then proceeded to murder the czar and his family and some 60 million Russians for their satanic communist cabal and the vast overwhelming members of the communist party in Russia were jews, and now these Zionists want to do to America what they did to Russia in 1917, go figure.

    They wouldn’t mind having another go at Russia either.

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    • Replies: @DESERT FOX
    The Zionist Bolsheviks would not mind having a go at every country in the world for their satanic cabal the NWO.
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  41. @Anatoly Karlin
    They wouldn't mind having another go at Russia either.

    The Zionist Bolsheviks would not mind having a go at every country in the world for their satanic cabal the NWO.

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  42. peterAUS says:
    @Anatoly Karlin
    Great article, nothing to substantively disagree with here.

    However, it is not unusual for such bodies to reach for more power in a revolutionary situation. In France, in 1789, the elected parliament was intended to be an advisory to the monarch, but very soon it assumed all the powers and chopped off the king’s head. In the USSR, in 1991, the Russian Federation parliament had very few rights being subservient to the Soviet parliament, but it assumed rights and broke up the USSR.
     
    Though Israel is omitting the most famous such institution of them all: The Petrograd Soviet. :)

    The Ukraine had been ruled by a similar Party of the Regions. Led by Mr Victor Yanukovych, the party fell to pieces after the coup, its members deserting the sinking ship as fast as they could.
     
    As concerns the "real" parties, commies and liberals were neck and neck, with nationalists at half their strength, and that's in my heavily prole district (where liberals perform poorly).

    https://www.unzcloud.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/zhulebino-2017-elections.jpg

    In the center and southwest, of course, the liberals are dominant, sometimes even surpassing United Russia.

    Hypothetically, if Putin (and consequently, United Russia) were to somehow vanish tomorrow, it will be the liberals vs. the commies and the nationalists.

    And frankly, the liberals would win. They are much better funded, have more brainpower, can cooperate with each other while commies and nationalists never will. Commies have some brains but they're too old, while nationalists have brawn on the streets but they're too stupid on average. (I say this is an LDPR-voting nationalist myself).

    The military is strongly nationalist, but they're probably not going to intervene, since Russia has never had an activist military in the Third World junta style.

    nationalists have brawn on the streets but they’re too stupid on average.

    Could, you, please, expand on this?

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  43. Aghasty says:
    @DESERT FOX
    The Zionist Bolsheviks overthrew the czar and then proceeded to murder the czar and his family and some 60 million Russians for their satanic communist cabal and the vast overwhelming members of the communist party in Russia were jews, and now these Zionists want to do to America what they did to Russia in 1917, go figure.

    DESERT FOX, you are a piece of work. The communists killed 60 million Russians? Do you know what 60 million Russians would be in a nation that at the time had no more than 130 million?

    Not only do you have a completely CIA/Oligarch-aproved hatred for communism and love for royalty—of apparently any kind including the czarist ultra reactionary variety—but you have no qualms in fabricating or repeating ridiculous lies about the Soviet Union, to add to the already enormous mountain of falsehoods. How this site permits this level of nonsense escapes me. All in the name of free speech I suppose, even if it gives the right of public speech to imbeciles and blatant ignoramuses.

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  44. I am very pleased that so many people here have gotten into a panic over the results of a municipal election. Where I live most people , including myself, couldn’t tell anybody the results of the last election except for who got elected mayor.

    Although I’m very angry that a dedicated bus lane is being built near where I live. Must be the CIA.

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    • LOL: Alden
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  45. @DESERT FOX
    The Zionist Bolsheviks overthrew the czar and then proceeded to murder the czar and his family and some 60 million Russians for their satanic communist cabal and the vast overwhelming members of the communist party in Russia were jews, and now these Zionists want to do to America what they did to Russia in 1917, go figure.

    If memory does not fail me, Bolsheviks had nothing to do with Tsar overthrow. They were in Switzerland and revolution was surprise for them, even for Lenin. The fact however does not negate the fact that Nikolai II overthrow was a very positive event since he was unfit to rule in the first place and the whole Empire was rotten to the core and dying. By the time he got the boot Nikolai had zero support in the country.
    I notice you have read Solzhenitsyn. I have not even touched his opuses. If you are aware, archives of those times are opened and numbers Solzhenitsyn invented in his book are not supported by real statistics.

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    • Replies: @Alden
    But weren't the statistics of 1920 to 1955 complied by Lenin, Kagonivich, Derzhinsky Stalin etc? Wouldn't they have lied about the deaths as much as Scholzhenitzen?

    Sorry about the spelling.
    , @Anatoly Karlin
    I don't know how having the fast rate of industrial growth in Europe is congruent with the "dying" descriptor.

    Actual contemporary observers applied the term to the Ottoman Empire ("dying man of Europe"). Russia was seen as a rising Power, including the German General Staff which were desperate to kick off a war as early as possible, before it completed its military modernization program.

    The essentially internal coup of February 1917 reversed what had hitherto been a favorable military situation, and the "revolutionary defeatism" of the (German-financed) managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, giving Russia the shameful distinction of ending up in the losing side of WW1 just several months ahead of the Entente victory.
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  46. @Parbes
    These are not "democratic candidates", disingenuous chutzpah-filled Zio-boy; they are open traitors being FUNDED AND DIRECTED by a foreign enemy nation that is threatening war and is currently engaged in all kinds of hostile actions against "their" country - as is clearly explained in the article. Are you too stupid to read and understand, or do you take everyone else on this website to be so?

    But I guess deliberate cognitive dissonance is par for the course for you arrogant neo-Orwellian Anglo-Zio trollboys.

    That was a beautiful and justified putdown.

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  47. @jack ryan
    Sounds like more Lev Bronsteins are leaving their Lower East Side New York City rent controlled apartments, migrating to Moscow, changing their names to something more Russian sounding like "Leon Trotsky" and pulling all kinds of deceitful stunts and packaging it under some lie like

    "American style democracy and freedom"...

    Vladimir Putin and his folks know how to deal with such creatures. Look what happened to the Yukos Oil Oligarch that tried similar stunts:

    http://static3.businessinsider.com/image/526969d569beddbd21e18b46-1200-600/khodorkovsky-cage-1.jpg

    Putin put this #*$&# in a public cage/jail cell then sentenced him to hard labor in Siberia.

    Russians know how to deal with such types and next month is the 100th anniversary of the "Russian (not) Revolution" - Russian Orthodox Christians will be ready.

    Congress, the judiciary, the cabinet, top media execs and talking heads, and the top Fed agency people merit something similar — only when the law is changed to authorize it, of course.

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  48. @Gerard2

    they had zero publicity, zero announcements, zero TV coverage.
    The Russian post-Soviet political system as organized by Putin’s wiseguys should share the blame.
     
    Shamir is simply talking bollocks. There was more than enough publicity. I was watching Rossiya24 and they had full analysis during and after the election. Yabloko guys interviewed as well as the major parties. Not to mention the newspapers,radio and so on.

    well, this is your opinion versus everybody’s else opinion. Let us google”:
    https://www.openrussia.org/notes/713542/ Elections nobody have heard of
    https://varlamov.ru/2545090.html very popular blogger saying: there was no agitation, and city workers were under order to remove every election-related notice
    same here http://echo.msk.ru/programs/sut/2051310-echo/
    and on the other side
    https://tsargrad.tv/news/opros-bolshinstvo-moskvichej-znali-o-vyborah-no-ne-prishli_84768 people knew but they didn’t come – as there was no promotion of the election campaign.
    Try next time to collect some evidence before writing ‘bollocks’.

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  49. Thirdeye says:
    @DESERT FOX
    Check the works of Alexander Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago and other various of his writings and also read Harvest of Sorrow by Robert Conquest , this documents the 11 million who were murdered in the Ukraine by the communists, and there are other books too numerous to mention.

    Robert Conquest was a Cold War ideologue who relied on discredited sources and Solzhenitsyn never substantiated his flights of fancy.

    http://www.campin.me.uk/Politics/purging-stalin.txt

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  50. iffen says:
    @Anatoly Karlin
    Great article, nothing to substantively disagree with here.

    However, it is not unusual for such bodies to reach for more power in a revolutionary situation. In France, in 1789, the elected parliament was intended to be an advisory to the monarch, but very soon it assumed all the powers and chopped off the king’s head. In the USSR, in 1991, the Russian Federation parliament had very few rights being subservient to the Soviet parliament, but it assumed rights and broke up the USSR.
     
    Though Israel is omitting the most famous such institution of them all: The Petrograd Soviet. :)

    The Ukraine had been ruled by a similar Party of the Regions. Led by Mr Victor Yanukovych, the party fell to pieces after the coup, its members deserting the sinking ship as fast as they could.
     
    As concerns the "real" parties, commies and liberals were neck and neck, with nationalists at half their strength, and that's in my heavily prole district (where liberals perform poorly).

    https://www.unzcloud.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/zhulebino-2017-elections.jpg

    In the center and southwest, of course, the liberals are dominant, sometimes even surpassing United Russia.

    Hypothetically, if Putin (and consequently, United Russia) were to somehow vanish tomorrow, it will be the liberals vs. the commies and the nationalists.

    And frankly, the liberals would win. They are much better funded, have more brainpower, can cooperate with each other while commies and nationalists never will. Commies have some brains but they're too old, while nationalists have brawn on the streets but they're too stupid on average. (I say this is an LDPR-voting nationalist myself).

    The military is strongly nationalist, but they're probably not going to intervene, since Russia has never had an activist military in the Third World junta style.

    Though Israel is omitting the most famous such institution of them all: The Petrograd Soviet.

    From Wiki:

    The Constitutional Convention[1]:31 (also known as the Philadelphia Convention,[1]:31 the Federal Convention,[1]:31 or the Grand Convention at Philadelphia[2][3]) took place from May 25 to September 17, 1787, in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Although the Convention was intended to revise the Articles of Confederation, the intention from the outset of many of its proponents, chief among them James Madison and Alexander Hamilton, was to create a new government rather than fix the existing one. The delegates elected George Washington to preside over the Convention. The result of the Convention was the creation of the United States Constitution, placing the Convention among the most significant events in the history of the United States.

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    • Replies: @Miro23

    @anatoly karlin

    Though Israel is omitting the most famous such institution of them all: The Petrograd Soviet.

    From Wiki:


    The Constitutional Convention[1]:31 (also known as the Philadelphia Convention,[1]:31 the Federal Convention,[1]:31 or the Grand Convention at Philadelphia[2][3]) took place from May 25 to September 17, 1787, in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Although the Convention was intended to revise the Articles of Confederation, the intention from the outset of many of its proponents, chief among them James Madison and Alexander Hamilton, was to create a new government rather than fix the existing one. The delegates elected George Washington to preside over the Convention. The result of the Convention was the creation of the United States Constitution, placing the Convention among the most significant events in the history of the United States.
     

     
    And the idea here was decentralized power, based on the States, with the minimum at the Federal level.

    The Founders great error, was not setting up a mechanism, obliging every American citizen to actively participate (discuss and vote) on issues at the County and State level - i.e. engage in the difficult, expensive, and time consuming work of real Democracy.

    It was always too easy to let someone else do the work (i.e. Washington).

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  51. pyrrhus says:
    @The Alarmist
    You know, if Vlad and his gang were as evil as Western MSM and politicos makes them out to be, these folks wouldn't have even lived to see the election.

    Indeed, they wouldn’t even have dared to stand for office….

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  52. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Michael Kenny
    I don't see why this party is described as "pro-American", other than as a rather silly attempt to divert attention away from Russiagate.

    You mean, no evidence but gut feelings of Mrs. Clnton and the NYT editors re “Russiagate” are much stronger factor than the documented evidence of the “pro-American forces spent over sixty million dollars in Moscow alone… and the funds came from abroad…”
    Let’s talk arithmetic. There is currently a mega-hysterics over the probable involvement (via the Facebook) of some probably Russians who probably wanted to affect the elections in the US. This probable involvement was estimated as worth $100.000.
    Now, Mr. Michael Kenny, let’s compare $100.000 that were probably spent on the Facebook by probably Russians to probably affect the US elections with the $60.000.000 spent by the pro-American forces to affect elections in Moscow alone.

    “Mr Khodorkovsky had been an American agent of influence for many years. Since being pardoned by President Putin, he moved abroad and became the focal point for the US-led clandestine campaign for regime change in Russia. Together with other exiled (and wanted) oligarchs, Tel Aviv-based Mr Nevzlin and London-based Mr Chichvarkin, Mr Khodorkovsky funnels money to Russia’s pro-Western opposition.”
    If you are still not convinced of the malignancy of the US meddling in Russian affairs, here is more about Mr. Khodorkovsky: “In October 2014, Khodorkovsky visited the U.S., delivering the keynote address at a Washington, D.C., meeting of Freedom House and giving a speech at the Council on Foreign Relations in New York.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikhail_Khodorkovsky
    The US meddling is not a probable cause; this is a well-documented involvement of the US stooge in Russian elections. Until you show any evidence of Russian Federation’ meddling into the US elections, your insinuations re Russiagate will remain insinuations – a slander, actually.
    If you care about the purity of the US politics, see no farther than the AIPAC and the Saudi’s contributions to the Clinton Foundation and such.

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  53. Alden says:
    @Jake
    Now that you mention it, Cromwell never met a Jew he didn't expel from England. And that was because Anglo-Saxon Puritanism was NOT a Judaizing heresy. And there is no history of WASPs ever hating as inferior, much less actively persecuting, non-WASP whites.

    Jake, you really really should read up on what the English puritans did to the Irish and the French Canadiens known as the Arcadians.

    After the English puritans expelled the Arcadians from Canada they sailed to Louisiana. The plan was to sail along the Atlantic coast stopping at every harbor along the way. The stops were to keep the smaller children alive by feeding them milk, fruit vegetables etc. Also to do laundry etc.

    But the jihadi American colonists wouldn’t even let the Arcadians land in American ports because they were Catholics. As a result 30 percent, mostly small children died on the voyage. Remember, this was not a military force, just a normal demographic mix of women, children and men of all ages.

    Cromwell and his wanna be Jewish puritans captured and sold into slavery in the Carribean and the American colonies 250,000 White people, a quarter of the population of Ireland.

    Puritans weren’t even Christian because they stridently denied that Jesus was God. The founder, Jean Calvin loudly proclaimed ” their is but one God, the G-D of Israel.” Knox Cotton Mather and all the puritans and pilgrims also denied that Jesus is God and there is only one God,, the God of the Jews.

    Puritans loved the Jewish bible because of all the sex and violence. They ignored the Christian bible because there is no sex and no violence until the crucifixion.
    Cromwell and the American puritans Also forbade the celebration of all Christian festivals including the most important ones Good Friday and Easter

    Face it, the puritans were not Christians and loudly proclaimed they were not Christians.

    They also banned music and beauty in churches. So they sat in an ugly building and listened to some lunatic preacher screeching about hell and damnation. Do you have any idea how many books Henry 8 and Oliver Cromwell’s gr gr gr uncle Thomas Cromwell burned during their orgy of destruction of art?

    Their spiritual descendants rule the media, Academia and the Democratic Party. The hateful, bigoted, dictatorial puritans of 1600 are the spiritual parents of the liberals of the 20 and 21 centuries.

    How did the puritans get into this discussion? I don’t believe in God and that collection of Jewish and Christian myths and fables, but the puritans were the equivalent of the worst Saudi Wahabbi extremists. The puritans even had Saudi style religious police that spied to see people didn’t eat hot food on the Sabbath. That was another Jewish practice they imposed.

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  54. Alden says:
    @Serge Krieger
    If memory does not fail me, Bolsheviks had nothing to do with Tsar overthrow. They were in Switzerland and revolution was surprise for them, even for Lenin. The fact however does not negate the fact that Nikolai II overthrow was a very positive event since he was unfit to rule in the first place and the whole Empire was rotten to the core and dying. By the time he got the boot Nikolai had zero support in the country.
    I notice you have read Solzhenitsyn. I have not even touched his opuses. If you are aware, archives of those times are opened and numbers Solzhenitsyn invented in his book are not supported by real statistics.

    But weren’t the statistics of 1920 to 1955 complied by Lenin, Kagonivich, Derzhinsky Stalin etc? Wouldn’t they have lied about the deaths as much as Scholzhenitzen?

    Sorry about the spelling.

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    • Replies: @Sergey Krieger
    Sorry for using wrong word. Those were not just statistics but actual cases and files. Who got what and for what. You know, real numbers. Solzhenicin is just a hack with no credibility who took numbers out of thin air. People like Lenin and Stalin would not care about what you are just implying. They were making history not cooking books.
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  55. Alden says:
    @Jake
    Now that you mention it, Cromwell never met a Jew he didn't expel from England. And that was because Anglo-Saxon Puritanism was NOT a Judaizing heresy. And there is no history of WASPs ever hating as inferior, much less actively persecuting, non-WASP whites.

    Ever heard of the Highland Clearances?
    English genocide of the Scots to make way for sheep.

    Christians believe that both Jesus and his father Jehovah are God. Jews believe only Jehovah is G-D. Puritans loudly proclaimed that only Jehovah, the God of Israel is God.

    Puritans we’re wanna be Jews. Their religion was a judaizing heresy. Why do you think they refused to call themselves Christians? Because they weren’t Christians.

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  56. Miro23 says:
    @iffen
    Though Israel is omitting the most famous such institution of them all: The Petrograd Soviet.

    From Wiki:

    The Constitutional Convention[1]:31 (also known as the Philadelphia Convention,[1]:31 the Federal Convention,[1]:31 or the Grand Convention at Philadelphia[2][3]) took place from May 25 to September 17, 1787, in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Although the Convention was intended to revise the Articles of Confederation, the intention from the outset of many of its proponents, chief among them James Madison and Alexander Hamilton, was to create a new government rather than fix the existing one. The delegates elected George Washington to preside over the Convention. The result of the Convention was the creation of the United States Constitution, placing the Convention among the most significant events in the history of the United States.
     

    @anatoly karlin

    Though Israel is omitting the most famous such institution of them all: The Petrograd Soviet.

    From Wiki:

    The Constitutional Convention[1]:31 (also known as the Philadelphia Convention,[1]:31 the Federal Convention,[1]:31 or the Grand Convention at Philadelphia[2][3]) took place from May 25 to September 17, 1787, in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Although the Convention was intended to revise the Articles of Confederation, the intention from the outset of many of its proponents, chief among them James Madison and Alexander Hamilton, was to create a new government rather than fix the existing one. The delegates elected George Washington to preside over the Convention. The result of the Convention was the creation of the United States Constitution, placing the Convention among the most significant events in the history of the United States.

    And the idea here was decentralized power, based on the States, with the minimum at the Federal level.

    The Founders great error, was not setting up a mechanism, obliging every American citizen to actively participate (discuss and vote) on issues at the County and State level – i.e. engage in the difficult, expensive, and time consuming work of real Democracy.

    It was always too easy to let someone else do the work (i.e. Washington).

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  57. Alden says:
    @DFH
    Stop repeating E Michael Jones' silly memes.

    The puritan committee set up to investigate the readmission of the Jews actually did not decide to readmit them into Britain. It was William III who did.

    And there is no history of WASPs ever hating as inferior, much less actively persecuting, non-WASP whites.
     
    Every group of whites has a history of hating and fighting other whites. That hardly distinguishes the English from the French or Germans or Russians

    Excuse me. When Oliver Cromwell was Lord Protector of England in the 1640s he let Dutch Jews into England. It’s well known in every Jewish and English history book.

    William 3 was a tool of the Amsterdam Jews that wanted to set up an English national bank which happened within months of William’s conquest of England.

    BTW in the 1600s the English had forgotten about the period of Saxon rule. They called themselves English. It was only during the early 1800s during the Romantic period that the English discovered their Saxon heritage. It was unknown until Walter Scott wrote Ivanhoe. Then the upcoming industrialist mercantile classes began claiming to be Saxons opposed to the declining argricultural gentry and aristocratic classes who were deemed descendants of the Normans.

    Recent DNA studies of thousands of native English has proved that they are descendants of the ancient Celts, not a few thousand Saxon, Danish and Norman invaders.

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  58. @Alden
    But weren't the statistics of 1920 to 1955 complied by Lenin, Kagonivich, Derzhinsky Stalin etc? Wouldn't they have lied about the deaths as much as Scholzhenitzen?

    Sorry about the spelling.

    Sorry for using wrong word. Those were not just statistics but actual cases and files. Who got what and for what. You know, real numbers. Solzhenicin is just a hack with no credibility who took numbers out of thin air. People like Lenin and Stalin would not care about what you are just implying. They were making history not cooking books.

    Read More
    • Replies: @bjondo
    Part of making history is to cook history and to cook books.

    Solzhenitsyn is anything but a hack without credibility.
    , @anon
    "People like Lenin and Stalin ... were making history not cooking books."
    You are funny. And who wrote the famous crash course in the history of the communist party - Stalin? Really? And what the "infallible" stalin told for posterity about counting the votes after election? - "It's not the people who vote that count, it's the people who count the votes."
    Solzhenitsyn is indeed hated viscerally by those who feel that facts have anti-Jewish bias. For the haters, the well-researched documentary about the Jews in Russia ("Two Hundred Years Together") can be only "numbers out of thin air." Otherwise, one has to meet too many inconvenient facts about the “most moral” and “most victimized.”
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  59. @Serge Krieger
    If memory does not fail me, Bolsheviks had nothing to do with Tsar overthrow. They were in Switzerland and revolution was surprise for them, even for Lenin. The fact however does not negate the fact that Nikolai II overthrow was a very positive event since he was unfit to rule in the first place and the whole Empire was rotten to the core and dying. By the time he got the boot Nikolai had zero support in the country.
    I notice you have read Solzhenitsyn. I have not even touched his opuses. If you are aware, archives of those times are opened and numbers Solzhenitsyn invented in his book are not supported by real statistics.

    I don’t know how having the fast rate of industrial growth in Europe is congruent with the “dying” descriptor.

    Actual contemporary observers applied the term to the Ottoman Empire (“dying man of Europe”). Russia was seen as a rising Power, including the German General Staff which were desperate to kick off a war as early as possible, before it completed its military modernization program.

    The essentially internal coup of February 1917 reversed what had hitherto been a favorable military situation, and the “revolutionary defeatism” of the (German-financed) managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, giving Russia the shameful distinction of ending up in the losing side of WW1 just several months ahead of the Entente victory.

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    • Replies: @Sergey Krieger
    Somehow common folk did not want no part neither of that war or victory. Having fastest rates of growth depended upon what base was growing and the base was a fraction of other major European powers industrial output. I clearly remember Andrei providing statistics. Rising power was incapable of supplying troops with enough ammunition and could only win by default. Anyway, it is pure speculations because Tsarist Russia had centuries and all it was able to come with was 5th place far behind the rest, 85% illiteracy, high child mortality and lack of social lifts. Compare it to real progress and development along with human energy released after 1921. USSR rose to number 2 economy by 1941. Sent men into space, uplifted tens of millions from iliteracy and poverty and mostly alone defeated the whole of Europe. I am afraid that was Russia peack and I am not sure we shall see anything comparable from Russia in the nearest future.
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  60. @Anatoly Karlin
    I don't know how having the fast rate of industrial growth in Europe is congruent with the "dying" descriptor.

    Actual contemporary observers applied the term to the Ottoman Empire ("dying man of Europe"). Russia was seen as a rising Power, including the German General Staff which were desperate to kick off a war as early as possible, before it completed its military modernization program.

    The essentially internal coup of February 1917 reversed what had hitherto been a favorable military situation, and the "revolutionary defeatism" of the (German-financed) managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, giving Russia the shameful distinction of ending up in the losing side of WW1 just several months ahead of the Entente victory.

    Somehow common folk did not want no part neither of that war or victory. Having fastest rates of growth depended upon what base was growing and the base was a fraction of other major European powers industrial output. I clearly remember Andrei providing statistics. Rising power was incapable of supplying troops with enough ammunition and could only win by default. Anyway, it is pure speculations because Tsarist Russia had centuries and all it was able to come with was 5th place far behind the rest, 85% illiteracy, high child mortality and lack of social lifts. Compare it to real progress and development along with human energy released after 1921. USSR rose to number 2 economy by 1941. Sent men into space, uplifted tens of millions from iliteracy and poverty and mostly alone defeated the whole of Europe. I am afraid that was Russia peack and I am not sure we shall see anything comparable from Russia in the nearest future.

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    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin

    Somehow common folk did not want no part neither of that war or victory.
     
    Any opinion polls on the matter? Judging by desertion rates, the French wanted it even less, but they were smart enough not to shoot themselves in the foot.

    In any case Russia ended up getting two wars for the price of one, the Civil War and WW2, which ended up killing 15x as many of them as the First.

    Rising power was incapable of supplying troops with enough ammunition and could only win by default.
     
    Those problems were specific to 1915, when prewar munitions stocks run out and industry hadn't yet revvied up to take the slack. That was history by 1916, when Russia started doing successful offensives that as good as kicked Austria-Hungary out of action.

    85% illiteracy
     
    This is a clear lie. Even by the 1897 Census the literacy was at 24%; it was 37% by the time of the Soviet 1920 Census. More to the point, by the early 1910s, 80% of Russian children had access to primary schooling. The literacy rate amongst conscripts was 70% by 1904-1913. The onset of mass literacy was inevitable and all that the Bolsheviks did was delay it by about 5 years and claim the achievement for their own.

    lack of social lifts
     
    Yet more Bolshevik propaganda - access to higher education was statistically more meritocratic in the late Empire than in contemporary France or Germany.

    Так в 1936 году во французских государствен-
    ных учебных заведениях «гимназического» (точнее «лицейского»)
    уровня дававших право поступления в высшие учебные заведения
    училось всего 1,7% детей крестьян, 4,3% детей ремесленников и
    2,7% детей рабочих. То есть социальные страты, составлявшие бо-
    лее 70% населения Франции получили менее 10% мест в полных
    средних учебных заведениях. ... Таким образом, низшие слои населения
    (70-90% от общего числа населения) в Германии и Франции имели
    в два-три раза более низкий показатель индекса образовательных
    возможностей, чем российские крестьяне накануне Первой миро-
    вой войны.
     
    I suppose Bolshevik SJWs did make things more meritocratic by changing admissions standards from extrance examinations in favor of class origins. Congrats.
    , @ussr andy

    uplifted tens of millions from iliteracy and poverty
     
    and the so uplifted (or their spawn) thanked her amply by making her cities unlivable and the 90's way worse than they had to be...
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  61. @Sergey Krieger
    Somehow common folk did not want no part neither of that war or victory. Having fastest rates of growth depended upon what base was growing and the base was a fraction of other major European powers industrial output. I clearly remember Andrei providing statistics. Rising power was incapable of supplying troops with enough ammunition and could only win by default. Anyway, it is pure speculations because Tsarist Russia had centuries and all it was able to come with was 5th place far behind the rest, 85% illiteracy, high child mortality and lack of social lifts. Compare it to real progress and development along with human energy released after 1921. USSR rose to number 2 economy by 1941. Sent men into space, uplifted tens of millions from iliteracy and poverty and mostly alone defeated the whole of Europe. I am afraid that was Russia peack and I am not sure we shall see anything comparable from Russia in the nearest future.

    Somehow common folk did not want no part neither of that war or victory.

    Any opinion polls on the matter? Judging by desertion rates, the French wanted it even less, but they were smart enough not to shoot themselves in the foot.

    In any case Russia ended up getting two wars for the price of one, the Civil War and WW2, which ended up killing 15x as many of them as the First.

    Rising power was incapable of supplying troops with enough ammunition and could only win by default.

    Those problems were specific to 1915, when prewar munitions stocks run out and industry hadn’t yet revvied up to take the slack. That was history by 1916, when Russia started doing successful offensives that as good as kicked Austria-Hungary out of action.

    85% illiteracy

    This is a clear lie. Even by the 1897 Census the literacy was at 24%; it was 37% by the time of the Soviet 1920 Census. More to the point, by the early 1910s, 80% of Russian children had access to primary schooling. The literacy rate amongst conscripts was 70% by 1904-1913. The onset of mass literacy was inevitable and all that the Bolsheviks did was delay it by about 5 years and claim the achievement for their own.

    lack of social lifts

    Yet more Bolshevik propaganda – access to higher education was statistically more meritocratic in the late Empire than in contemporary France or Germany.

    Так в 1936 году во французских государствен-
    ных учебных заведениях «гимназического» (точнее «лицейского»)
    уровня дававших право поступления в высшие учебные заведения
    училось всего 1,7% детей крестьян, 4,3% детей ремесленников и
    2,7% детей рабочих. То есть социальные страты, составлявшие бо-
    лее 70% населения Франции получили менее 10% мест в полных
    средних учебных заведениях. … Таким образом, низшие слои населения
    (70-90% от общего числа населения) в Германии и Франции имели
    в два-три раза более низкий показатель индекса образовательных
    возможностей, чем российские крестьяне накануне Первой миро-
    вой войны.

    I suppose Bolshevik SJWs did make things more meritocratic by changing admissions standards from extrance examinations in favor of class origins. Congrats.

    Read More
    • Agree: AP
    • Replies: @Sergey Krieger
    You seem to be more interested in aguments than in truth.
    , @iffen
    In any case Russia ended up getting two wars for the price of one, the Civil War and WW2, which ended up killing 15x as many of them as the First.

    I think that the Bolsheviks wanted to get out of WWI so that they could get the Civil War under way, defeat the opposition and then get back to Germany.
    , @utu
    I could not press "Agree" because I do not know your facts independently. But I like your facts. No button for "like."
    , @Serge Krieger
    Try harder.
    Грамотность мужчин/женщин в возрасте старше 9—20 лет на 1889 и 1913 годы
    Для Российской империи грамотность — умение читать, для других стран — читать и писать. Российская империя Великобритания Германия США Австрия Япония Франция
    31/13 91/89 97/95 88/85 74/60 97/— 89/81
    54/26 99/99 99/99 93/93 81/75 98/— 95/94

    Considering this Anatolii, you have got rich and rewarding career in ahead of you. It is not rewarding to write about true history. The history is being rewritten by "victors".
    After last generation of those who was born and saw USSR as adults will die off, everything will go about Soviet past. Another question how good it will be for Russia and Russians.

    Вопросы о событиях столетней давности задавали как тем, кто сдавал профильный ЕГЭ по истории, так и тем, кто не изучал этот предмет глубоко. Итоги теста опечалили исследователей. Например, на вопрос о событиях 1917 года лишь каждый третий сдававший ЕГЭ смог дать развернутый ответ. Среди тех, кто этот экзамен не сдавал, знаниями порадовали лишь 17%. Остальные ограничились несколькими словами. Самое пугающее, что каждый пятый респондент, не сдававший ЕГЭ по истории, вообще не смог ничего вспомнить о 1917 годе. У некоторых студентов этот год ассоциировался с началом Первой мировой войны, восстанием декабристов и даже романом Льва Толстого "Война и мир".

    О репрессиях 1937 года тоже знают немногие: содержательный ответ дали только 5% не сдававших ЕГЭ и 17% сдававших. Вообще никаких ассоциаций по этому вопросу не нашлось у 41% респондентов, которые не писали профильный ЕГЭ. Что интересно, студенты связывали 1937-й с приходом к власти Гитлера и началом Второй мировой войны.

    Стоит отметить, что в опросе участвовали студенты столичных вузов. По словам авторов исследования, такие результаты связаны с тем, что в школах уделяется мало внимания именно современной истории России. Такого же мнения придерживается и министр образования и науки РФ Ольга Васильева. Поэтому, считает она, необходимо сделать ЕГЭ по истории обязательным для всех выпускников российских школ.
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  62. Bill says:
    @Jake
    It is about the Anglo-Zionist Empire. It is not just a Jewish thing. It is the current stage of the now ancient alliance, forged in steel by no less than Oliver Cromwell, between WASPs and Jews.

    You cannot separate the 'Jewish problem' from the 'WASP problem.'

    Cromwell was a WASP, but not all WASPs are Cromwell-ish.

    Read More
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  63. bjondo says:
    @Sergey Krieger
    Sorry for using wrong word. Those were not just statistics but actual cases and files. Who got what and for what. You know, real numbers. Solzhenicin is just a hack with no credibility who took numbers out of thin air. People like Lenin and Stalin would not care about what you are just implying. They were making history not cooking books.

    Part of making history is to cook history and to cook books.

    Solzhenitsyn is anything but a hack without credibility.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sergey Krieger
    He is.
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  64. bjondo says:
    @Jake
    It is about the Anglo-Zionist Empire. It is not just a Jewish thing. It is the current stage of the now ancient alliance, forged in steel by no less than Oliver Cromwell, between WASPs and Jews.

    You cannot separate the 'Jewish problem' from the 'WASP problem.'

    Let’s make things up.
    Jew best at turning history into comic books.

    Read More
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  65. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Sergey Krieger
    Sorry for using wrong word. Those were not just statistics but actual cases and files. Who got what and for what. You know, real numbers. Solzhenicin is just a hack with no credibility who took numbers out of thin air. People like Lenin and Stalin would not care about what you are just implying. They were making history not cooking books.

    “People like Lenin and Stalin … were making history not cooking books.”
    You are funny. And who wrote the famous crash course in the history of the communist party – Stalin? Really? And what the “infallible” stalin told for posterity about counting the votes after election? – “It’s not the people who vote that count, it’s the people who count the votes.”
    Solzhenitsyn is indeed hated viscerally by those who feel that facts have anti-Jewish bias. For the haters, the well-researched documentary about the Jews in Russia (“Two Hundred Years Together”) can be only “numbers out of thin air.” Otherwise, one has to meet too many inconvenient facts about the “most moral” and “most victimized.”

    Read More
    • Replies: @utu
    Solzhenitsyn is indeed hated viscerally by those who feel that facts have anti-Jewish bias.

    Interesting point I haven't thought before. So all those Soviet Union apologists one may have a pleasure to encounter here at unz in hating Solzhenitsyn help to obscure Jewish role in Bolshevik revolution and Soviet regime? Makes sense. Is it impossible to love Soviet Union and hate Jews at the same time?
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  66. ussr andy says:
    @Sergey Krieger
    Somehow common folk did not want no part neither of that war or victory. Having fastest rates of growth depended upon what base was growing and the base was a fraction of other major European powers industrial output. I clearly remember Andrei providing statistics. Rising power was incapable of supplying troops with enough ammunition and could only win by default. Anyway, it is pure speculations because Tsarist Russia had centuries and all it was able to come with was 5th place far behind the rest, 85% illiteracy, high child mortality and lack of social lifts. Compare it to real progress and development along with human energy released after 1921. USSR rose to number 2 economy by 1941. Sent men into space, uplifted tens of millions from iliteracy and poverty and mostly alone defeated the whole of Europe. I am afraid that was Russia peack and I am not sure we shall see anything comparable from Russia in the nearest future.

    uplifted tens of millions from iliteracy and poverty

    and the so uplifted (or their spawn) thanked her amply by making her cities unlivable and the 90′s way worse than they had to be…

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sergey Krieger
    That would be another story. It has more to do with general human nature and specifically Russian national character flaws. We all paid dearly for that. The fact that bolsheviks saved and rebuilt Russia to the best condition it had ever been is undenyable. Only those ideologically blind cannot see it.
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  67. @Anatoly Karlin

    Somehow common folk did not want no part neither of that war or victory.
     
    Any opinion polls on the matter? Judging by desertion rates, the French wanted it even less, but they were smart enough not to shoot themselves in the foot.

    In any case Russia ended up getting two wars for the price of one, the Civil War and WW2, which ended up killing 15x as many of them as the First.

    Rising power was incapable of supplying troops with enough ammunition and could only win by default.
     
    Those problems were specific to 1915, when prewar munitions stocks run out and industry hadn't yet revvied up to take the slack. That was history by 1916, when Russia started doing successful offensives that as good as kicked Austria-Hungary out of action.

    85% illiteracy
     
    This is a clear lie. Even by the 1897 Census the literacy was at 24%; it was 37% by the time of the Soviet 1920 Census. More to the point, by the early 1910s, 80% of Russian children had access to primary schooling. The literacy rate amongst conscripts was 70% by 1904-1913. The onset of mass literacy was inevitable and all that the Bolsheviks did was delay it by about 5 years and claim the achievement for their own.

    lack of social lifts
     
    Yet more Bolshevik propaganda - access to higher education was statistically more meritocratic in the late Empire than in contemporary France or Germany.

    Так в 1936 году во французских государствен-
    ных учебных заведениях «гимназического» (точнее «лицейского»)
    уровня дававших право поступления в высшие учебные заведения
    училось всего 1,7% детей крестьян, 4,3% детей ремесленников и
    2,7% детей рабочих. То есть социальные страты, составлявшие бо-
    лее 70% населения Франции получили менее 10% мест в полных
    средних учебных заведениях. ... Таким образом, низшие слои населения
    (70-90% от общего числа населения) в Германии и Франции имели
    в два-три раза более низкий показатель индекса образовательных
    возможностей, чем российские крестьяне накануне Первой миро-
    вой войны.
     
    I suppose Bolshevik SJWs did make things more meritocratic by changing admissions standards from extrance examinations in favor of class origins. Congrats.

    You seem to be more interested in aguments than in truth.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sergey Krieger
    You are speculating what if. There is not what if. There is history at hand with facts which are not in accordance with your world views.
    , @AP
    Says someone who responds to facts with a personal attack.
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  68. @bjondo
    Part of making history is to cook history and to cook books.

    Solzhenitsyn is anything but a hack without credibility.

    He is.

    Read More
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  69. @ussr andy

    uplifted tens of millions from iliteracy and poverty
     
    and the so uplifted (or their spawn) thanked her amply by making her cities unlivable and the 90's way worse than they had to be...

    That would be another story. It has more to do with general human nature and specifically Russian national character flaws. We all paid dearly for that. The fact that bolsheviks saved and rebuilt Russia to the best condition it had ever been is undenyable. Only those ideologically blind cannot see it.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AP

    It has more to do with general human nature and specifically Russian national character flaws.
     
    No, it was the product of the values produced by Communism upon general society and the type of elites that were produced by Communism. Ukraine provides a nice natural experiment, in that parts of it were subject to communism in 1920 and other parts in 1945.

    With Galicia, there are confounds with respect to historical factors not associated with Communism.

    So, you can compare Rivne oblast to Zhytomir oblast. Both were part of the same Governate during Tsarist times, but after the Polish-Soviet war the governate was split, with Rivne being placed in Poland and Zhytomir in the USSR. Same populations, same history prior to Communism, same religion, same urban/rural mix. Only difference is Zhytomir got 25 years more of communism. Here is crime rate in 2012. It jumps when you cross the 1920 border into territory that was subjected to an additional 25 years of Communism. Here is abortion by oblast in 1999. Rivne - 32.8%. Zhytomir 45.9%. Similarly, HIV rate nearly doubles when you cross from Rivne to Zhytomir oblasts, from 13.7 per 100,000 to 20.3/100,000.

    (note that on all these factors the most heavily commie part of Ukraine, where people supported Communism, was several times worse than Zhytomir.

    The parts that experienced communism later have lower homicide rates, crime rates, HIV rates, abortion rates and other indicators of social and moral degeneracy. Communist parts also have lower fertility rates, yet higher % of children born to unwed mothers. This was within the same Soviet Republic. And of course you can compare the 90s in Russia with the 90s in other places whose societies were less thoroughly Communized.

    So no, it isn't general human nature or Russian culture. It's Communism and its debilitating effect - the more generations infected by Soviet values, the worse the outcome.

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  70. @Sergey Krieger
    You seem to be more interested in aguments than in truth.

    You are speculating what if. There is not what if. There is history at hand with facts which are not in accordance with your world views.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AP

    You are speculating what if.
     
    Speculation based on previous trajectory (such as of gain in literacy) is nothing to dismiss.

    There is history at hand with facts which are not in accordance with your world views.
     
    He provided facts. You made a factual claim that was proven wrong (85% illiteracy), made various other silly claims that no objective person with knowledge would take seriously, then responded with personal attacks.
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  71. AP says:
    @Sergey Krieger
    You seem to be more interested in aguments than in truth.

    Says someone who responds to facts with a personal attack.

    Read More
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  72. AP says:
    @Sergey Krieger
    You are speculating what if. There is not what if. There is history at hand with facts which are not in accordance with your world views.

    You are speculating what if.

    Speculation based on previous trajectory (such as of gain in literacy) is nothing to dismiss.

    There is history at hand with facts which are not in accordance with your world views.

    He provided facts. You made a factual claim that was proven wrong (85% illiteracy), made various other silly claims that no objective person with knowledge would take seriously, then responded with personal attacks.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sergey Krieger
    Well. I agree about trajectory. Lost Russo Japanese war than lost WW1. Excuses irrelevant. Regarding literacy in Russia just posting those numbers won't help. Peasants still always stayed peasants at most becoming factory workers. So called literate could often only read and often forgot even that skill. By and large Russia was left behind and ww1 plainly sealed Russia fate. Victorious countries do not disentegration, population does not rise against government... During WW2, Soviet people despite far larger losses and hardship stood by Soviet leadership. Soviet army out produced the whole of Europe which consisted of the countries which used to have large advantage over Russia in 1914 in manufacturing capacity. Also, the whole trend of trying to smere Soviet past on which modern Russia depends in every aspect while trying to glorify pre 1917 past is quite logical. It is attempt to get away with stolen property by elites hence the need in people like Anatolii and others who are doing this job. It is logical. We're all those fundamental scientific and industrial complexes built under old regime? Nope. Was population 100% educated minimum to 10 classes plus professional education and then higher education on such scale in n old Russia? What about healthcare? You really want to dig deep? You do not want to dig deep because you will find things that will leave your illusions shuttered.
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  73. iffen says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Somehow common folk did not want no part neither of that war or victory.
     
    Any opinion polls on the matter? Judging by desertion rates, the French wanted it even less, but they were smart enough not to shoot themselves in the foot.

    In any case Russia ended up getting two wars for the price of one, the Civil War and WW2, which ended up killing 15x as many of them as the First.

    Rising power was incapable of supplying troops with enough ammunition and could only win by default.
     
    Those problems were specific to 1915, when prewar munitions stocks run out and industry hadn't yet revvied up to take the slack. That was history by 1916, when Russia started doing successful offensives that as good as kicked Austria-Hungary out of action.

    85% illiteracy
     
    This is a clear lie. Even by the 1897 Census the literacy was at 24%; it was 37% by the time of the Soviet 1920 Census. More to the point, by the early 1910s, 80% of Russian children had access to primary schooling. The literacy rate amongst conscripts was 70% by 1904-1913. The onset of mass literacy was inevitable and all that the Bolsheviks did was delay it by about 5 years and claim the achievement for their own.

    lack of social lifts
     
    Yet more Bolshevik propaganda - access to higher education was statistically more meritocratic in the late Empire than in contemporary France or Germany.

    Так в 1936 году во французских государствен-
    ных учебных заведениях «гимназического» (точнее «лицейского»)
    уровня дававших право поступления в высшие учебные заведения
    училось всего 1,7% детей крестьян, 4,3% детей ремесленников и
    2,7% детей рабочих. То есть социальные страты, составлявшие бо-
    лее 70% населения Франции получили менее 10% мест в полных
    средних учебных заведениях. ... Таким образом, низшие слои населения
    (70-90% от общего числа населения) в Германии и Франции имели
    в два-три раза более низкий показатель индекса образовательных
    возможностей, чем российские крестьяне накануне Первой миро-
    вой войны.
     
    I suppose Bolshevik SJWs did make things more meritocratic by changing admissions standards from extrance examinations in favor of class origins. Congrats.

    In any case Russia ended up getting two wars for the price of one, the Civil War and WW2, which ended up killing 15x as many of them as the First.

    I think that the Bolsheviks wanted to get out of WWI so that they could get the Civil War under way, defeat the opposition and then get back to Germany.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sergey Krieger
    You would do a lot better by reading historical documents. Civil war was not started by bolsheviks.
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  74. AP says:
    @Sergey Krieger
    That would be another story. It has more to do with general human nature and specifically Russian national character flaws. We all paid dearly for that. The fact that bolsheviks saved and rebuilt Russia to the best condition it had ever been is undenyable. Only those ideologically blind cannot see it.

    It has more to do with general human nature and specifically Russian national character flaws.

    No, it was the product of the values produced by Communism upon general society and the type of elites that were produced by Communism. Ukraine provides a nice natural experiment, in that parts of it were subject to communism in 1920 and other parts in 1945.

    With Galicia, there are confounds with respect to historical factors not associated with Communism.

    So, you can compare Rivne oblast to Zhytomir oblast. Both were part of the same Governate during Tsarist times, but after the Polish-Soviet war the governate was split, with Rivne being placed in Poland and Zhytomir in the USSR. Same populations, same history prior to Communism, same religion, same urban/rural mix. Only difference is Zhytomir got 25 years more of communism. Here is crime rate in 2012. It jumps when you cross the 1920 border into territory that was subjected to an additional 25 years of Communism. Here is abortion by oblast in 1999. Rivne – 32.8%. Zhytomir 45.9%. Similarly, HIV rate nearly doubles when you cross from Rivne to Zhytomir oblasts, from 13.7 per 100,000 to 20.3/100,000.

    (note that on all these factors the most heavily commie part of Ukraine, where people supported Communism, was several times worse than Zhytomir.

    The parts that experienced communism later have lower homicide rates, crime rates, HIV rates, abortion rates and other indicators of social and moral degeneracy. Communist parts also have lower fertility rates, yet higher % of children born to unwed mothers. This was within the same Soviet Republic. And of course you can compare the 90s in Russia with the 90s in other places whose societies were less thoroughly Communized.

    So no, it isn’t general human nature or Russian culture. It’s Communism and its debilitating effect – the more generations infected by Soviet values, the worse the outcome.

    Read More
    • Replies: @ussr andy
    England has an acute white underclass problem (also in contrast to C&E Europe) and England wasn't Communist...

    Last week, for example, to the amazement of a doctor recently arrived from Madras, a woman in her late twenties entered our hospital with the most common condition that brings patients to us: a deliberate overdose. At first she would say nothing more than that she wanted to depart this world, that she had had enough of it.

    I inquired further. Just before she took the overdose, her ex-boyfriend, the father of her eight-month-old youngest child (now staying with her ex-boyfriend's mother), had broken into her apartment by smashing down the front door. He wrecked the apartment's contents, broke every window, stole $110 in cash, and ripped out her telephone.

    "He's very violent, doctor." (...)

    "What happened?"

    "I dropped the charges. His mother said he would change."

    Another of her problems was that she was now five weeks pregnant and she didn't want the baby.

    "I want to get rid of it, doctor."

    "Who's the father?"

    It was her violent ex-boyfriend, of course. (...)

    What had she known of this man before she took up with him? She met him in a club; he moved in at once, because he had nowhere else to stay. He had a child by another woman, neither of whom he supported. He had been in prison for burglary. He took drugs. He had never worked, except for cash on the side. Of course he never gave her any of his money, instead running up her telephone bills vertiginously.

    She had never married, but had two other children. The first, a daughter aged eight, still lived with her. The father was a man whom she left because she found he was having sex with 12-year-old girls. Her second child was a son, whose father was "an idiot" with whom she had slept one night. That child, now six, lived with the "idiot," and she never saw him. (...)

    Later in the day, feeling a little lonely, she telephoned her ex-boyfriend, and he visited her.

    I discussed the case with the doctor who had recently arrived from Madras, and who felt he had entered an insane world. Not in his wildest dreams had he imagined it could be like this. There was nothing to compare with it in Madras. He asked me what would happen next to the happy couple.

    "They'll find her a new flat. They'll buy her new furniture, television, and refrigerator, because it's unacceptable poverty in this day and age to live without them. They'll charge her nothing for the damage to her old flat, because she can't pay anyway, and it wasn't she who did it. He will get away scot-free. Once she's installed in her new flat to escape from him, she'll invite him there, he'll smash it up again, and then they'll find her somewhere else to live. There is, in fact, nothing she can do that will deprive her of the state's obligation to house, feed, and entertain her."

    I asked the doctor from Madras if poverty was the word he would use to describe this woman's situation. He said it was not: that her problem was that she accepted no limits to her own behavior, that she did not fear the possibility of hunger, the condemnation of her own parents or neighbors, or God. In other words, the squalor of England was not economic but spiritual, moral, and cultural.

    I often take my doctors from the Third World on the short walk from the hospital to the prison nearby. It is a most instructive 800 yards. On a good day—good for didactic purposes, that is—there are seven or eight puddles of glass shattered into fragments lying in the gutter en route (there are never none, except during the most inclement weather, when even those most addicted to car theft control their impulses).

    "Each of these little piles of smashed glass represents a car that has been broken into," I tell them. "There will be more tomorrow, weather permitting." The houses along the way are, as public housing goes, quite decent. The local authorities have at last accepted that herding people into giant, featureless, Le Corbusian concrete blocks was a mistake, and they have switched to the construction of individual houses. Only a few of their windows are boarded up. Certainly by comparison with housing for the poor in Bombay, Madras, or Manila they are spacious and luxurious indeed. Each has a little front yard of grass, surrounded by a hedge, and a much larger back yard; about half have satellite dishes. Unfortunately, the yards are almost as full of litter as municipal garbage dumps. (...)
     
    https://www.city-journal.org/html/what-poverty-11845.html

    To be clear, I'm suspicious of the flawed national character theory, too.
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  75. utu says:
    @anon
    "People like Lenin and Stalin ... were making history not cooking books."
    You are funny. And who wrote the famous crash course in the history of the communist party - Stalin? Really? And what the "infallible" stalin told for posterity about counting the votes after election? - "It's not the people who vote that count, it's the people who count the votes."
    Solzhenitsyn is indeed hated viscerally by those who feel that facts have anti-Jewish bias. For the haters, the well-researched documentary about the Jews in Russia ("Two Hundred Years Together") can be only "numbers out of thin air." Otherwise, one has to meet too many inconvenient facts about the “most moral” and “most victimized.”

    Solzhenitsyn is indeed hated viscerally by those who feel that facts have anti-Jewish bias.

    Interesting point I haven’t thought before. So all those Soviet Union apologists one may have a pleasure to encounter here at unz in hating Solzhenitsyn help to obscure Jewish role in Bolshevik revolution and Soviet regime? Makes sense. Is it impossible to love Soviet Union and hate Jews at the same time?

    Read More
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  76. utu says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Somehow common folk did not want no part neither of that war or victory.
     
    Any opinion polls on the matter? Judging by desertion rates, the French wanted it even less, but they were smart enough not to shoot themselves in the foot.

    In any case Russia ended up getting two wars for the price of one, the Civil War and WW2, which ended up killing 15x as many of them as the First.

    Rising power was incapable of supplying troops with enough ammunition and could only win by default.
     
    Those problems were specific to 1915, when prewar munitions stocks run out and industry hadn't yet revvied up to take the slack. That was history by 1916, when Russia started doing successful offensives that as good as kicked Austria-Hungary out of action.

    85% illiteracy
     
    This is a clear lie. Even by the 1897 Census the literacy was at 24%; it was 37% by the time of the Soviet 1920 Census. More to the point, by the early 1910s, 80% of Russian children had access to primary schooling. The literacy rate amongst conscripts was 70% by 1904-1913. The onset of mass literacy was inevitable and all that the Bolsheviks did was delay it by about 5 years and claim the achievement for their own.

    lack of social lifts
     
    Yet more Bolshevik propaganda - access to higher education was statistically more meritocratic in the late Empire than in contemporary France or Germany.

    Так в 1936 году во французских государствен-
    ных учебных заведениях «гимназического» (точнее «лицейского»)
    уровня дававших право поступления в высшие учебные заведения
    училось всего 1,7% детей крестьян, 4,3% детей ремесленников и
    2,7% детей рабочих. То есть социальные страты, составлявшие бо-
    лее 70% населения Франции получили менее 10% мест в полных
    средних учебных заведениях. ... Таким образом, низшие слои населения
    (70-90% от общего числа населения) в Германии и Франции имели
    в два-три раза более низкий показатель индекса образовательных
    возможностей, чем российские крестьяне накануне Первой миро-
    вой войны.
     
    I suppose Bolshevik SJWs did make things more meritocratic by changing admissions standards from extrance examinations in favor of class origins. Congrats.

    I could not press “Agree” because I do not know your facts independently. But I like your facts. No button for “like.”

    Read More
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  77. @AP

    You are speculating what if.
     
    Speculation based on previous trajectory (such as of gain in literacy) is nothing to dismiss.

    There is history at hand with facts which are not in accordance with your world views.
     
    He provided facts. You made a factual claim that was proven wrong (85% illiteracy), made various other silly claims that no objective person with knowledge would take seriously, then responded with personal attacks.

    Well. I agree about trajectory. Lost Russo Japanese war than lost WW1. Excuses irrelevant. Regarding literacy in Russia just posting those numbers won’t help. Peasants still always stayed peasants at most becoming factory workers. So called literate could often only read and often forgot even that skill. By and large Russia was left behind and ww1 plainly sealed Russia fate. Victorious countries do not disentegration, population does not rise against government… During WW2, Soviet people despite far larger losses and hardship stood by Soviet leadership. Soviet army out produced the whole of Europe which consisted of the countries which used to have large advantage over Russia in 1914 in manufacturing capacity. Also, the whole trend of trying to smere Soviet past on which modern Russia depends in every aspect while trying to glorify pre 1917 past is quite logical. It is attempt to get away with stolen property by elites hence the need in people like Anatolii and others who are doing this job. It is logical. We’re all those fundamental scientific and industrial complexes built under old regime? Nope. Was population 100% educated minimum to 10 classes plus professional education and then higher education on such scale in n old Russia? What about healthcare? You really want to dig deep? You do not want to dig deep because you will find things that will leave your illusions shuttered.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AP

    Well. I agree about trajectory. Lost Russo Japanese war than lost WW1.
     
    Lost to Japan. Then, crushed Austria-Hungary and Ottoman Empire, but lost to Germany (actually, more like gave up fighting rather than was defeated on the battlefield). So trajectory is clear.

    Regarding literacy in Russia just posting those numbers won’t help.
     
    Some facts are inconvenient?

    During WW2, Soviet people despite far larger losses and hardship stood by Soviet leadership
     
    During WW II, the enemy was openly genociding the Soviet people. What choice did they have? A silly comparison. But in the very first few months of World War II, before this became clear, there was plenty of surrendering and greeting of the invader.

    We’re all those fundamental scientific and industrial complexes built under old regime?
     
    Old regime didn't have mass electrification either. Nor did it have commercial airliners. Or computers. You think if not for the Soviets, these things wouldn't exist in Russia?

    Interesting that you ignored my other post. Perhaps "You do not want to dig deep because you will find things that will leave your illusions shuttered?"

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  78. @iffen
    In any case Russia ended up getting two wars for the price of one, the Civil War and WW2, which ended up killing 15x as many of them as the First.

    I think that the Bolsheviks wanted to get out of WWI so that they could get the Civil War under way, defeat the opposition and then get back to Germany.

    You would do a lot better by reading historical documents. Civil war was not started by bolsheviks.

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    You would do better by learning how to think.

    The Bolsheviks seized power and intended to consolidate and secure that power. One thing that they were not was stupid. They knew with certainty that they would face armed resistance, both domestic and very likely foreign.
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  79. iffen says:
    @Sergey Krieger
    You would do a lot better by reading historical documents. Civil war was not started by bolsheviks.

    You would do better by learning how to think.

    The Bolsheviks seized power and intended to consolidate and secure that power. One thing that they were not was stupid. They knew with certainty that they would face armed resistance, both domestic and very likely foreign.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sergey Krieger
    Bolsheviks took power that nobody wanted. The country was falling apart and desintegrating at frightening speed.
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  80. @Anatoly Karlin

    Somehow common folk did not want no part neither of that war or victory.
     
    Any opinion polls on the matter? Judging by desertion rates, the French wanted it even less, but they were smart enough not to shoot themselves in the foot.

    In any case Russia ended up getting two wars for the price of one, the Civil War and WW2, which ended up killing 15x as many of them as the First.

    Rising power was incapable of supplying troops with enough ammunition and could only win by default.
     
    Those problems were specific to 1915, when prewar munitions stocks run out and industry hadn't yet revvied up to take the slack. That was history by 1916, when Russia started doing successful offensives that as good as kicked Austria-Hungary out of action.

    85% illiteracy
     
    This is a clear lie. Even by the 1897 Census the literacy was at 24%; it was 37% by the time of the Soviet 1920 Census. More to the point, by the early 1910s, 80% of Russian children had access to primary schooling. The literacy rate amongst conscripts was 70% by 1904-1913. The onset of mass literacy was inevitable and all that the Bolsheviks did was delay it by about 5 years and claim the achievement for their own.

    lack of social lifts
     
    Yet more Bolshevik propaganda - access to higher education was statistically more meritocratic in the late Empire than in contemporary France or Germany.

    Так в 1936 году во французских государствен-
    ных учебных заведениях «гимназического» (точнее «лицейского»)
    уровня дававших право поступления в высшие учебные заведения
    училось всего 1,7% детей крестьян, 4,3% детей ремесленников и
    2,7% детей рабочих. То есть социальные страты, составлявшие бо-
    лее 70% населения Франции получили менее 10% мест в полных
    средних учебных заведениях. ... Таким образом, низшие слои населения
    (70-90% от общего числа населения) в Германии и Франции имели
    в два-три раза более низкий показатель индекса образовательных
    возможностей, чем российские крестьяне накануне Первой миро-
    вой войны.
     
    I suppose Bolshevik SJWs did make things more meritocratic by changing admissions standards from extrance examinations in favor of class origins. Congrats.

    Try harder.
    Грамотность мужчин/женщин в возрасте старше 9—20 лет на 1889 и 1913 годы
    Для Российской империи грамотность — умение читать, для других стран — читать и писать. Российская империя Великобритания Германия США Австрия Япония Франция
    31/13 91/89 97/95 88/85 74/60 97/— 89/81
    54/26 99/99 99/99 93/93 81/75 98/— 95/94

    Considering this Anatolii, you have got rich and rewarding career in ahead of you. It is not rewarding to write about true history. The history is being rewritten by “victors”.
    After last generation of those who was born and saw USSR as adults will die off, everything will go about Soviet past. Another question how good it will be for Russia and Russians.

    Вопросы о событиях столетней давности задавали как тем, кто сдавал профильный ЕГЭ по истории, так и тем, кто не изучал этот предмет глубоко. Итоги теста опечалили исследователей. Например, на вопрос о событиях 1917 года лишь каждый третий сдававший ЕГЭ смог дать развернутый ответ. Среди тех, кто этот экзамен не сдавал, знаниями порадовали лишь 17%. Остальные ограничились несколькими словами. Самое пугающее, что каждый пятый респондент, не сдававший ЕГЭ по истории, вообще не смог ничего вспомнить о 1917 годе. У некоторых студентов этот год ассоциировался с началом Первой мировой войны, восстанием декабристов и даже романом Льва Толстого “Война и мир”.

    О репрессиях 1937 года тоже знают немногие: содержательный ответ дали только 5% не сдававших ЕГЭ и 17% сдававших. Вообще никаких ассоциаций по этому вопросу не нашлось у 41% респондентов, которые не писали профильный ЕГЭ. Что интересно, студенты связывали 1937-й с приходом к власти Гитлера и началом Второй мировой войны.

    Стоит отметить, что в опросе участвовали студенты столичных вузов. По словам авторов исследования, такие результаты связаны с тем, что в школах уделяется мало внимания именно современной истории России. Такого же мнения придерживается и министр образования и науки РФ Ольга Васильева. Поэтому, считает она, необходимо сделать ЕГЭ по истории обязательным для всех выпускников российских школ.

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  81. ussr andy says:
    @AP

    It has more to do with general human nature and specifically Russian national character flaws.
     
    No, it was the product of the values produced by Communism upon general society and the type of elites that were produced by Communism. Ukraine provides a nice natural experiment, in that parts of it were subject to communism in 1920 and other parts in 1945.

    With Galicia, there are confounds with respect to historical factors not associated with Communism.

    So, you can compare Rivne oblast to Zhytomir oblast. Both were part of the same Governate during Tsarist times, but after the Polish-Soviet war the governate was split, with Rivne being placed in Poland and Zhytomir in the USSR. Same populations, same history prior to Communism, same religion, same urban/rural mix. Only difference is Zhytomir got 25 years more of communism. Here is crime rate in 2012. It jumps when you cross the 1920 border into territory that was subjected to an additional 25 years of Communism. Here is abortion by oblast in 1999. Rivne - 32.8%. Zhytomir 45.9%. Similarly, HIV rate nearly doubles when you cross from Rivne to Zhytomir oblasts, from 13.7 per 100,000 to 20.3/100,000.

    (note that on all these factors the most heavily commie part of Ukraine, where people supported Communism, was several times worse than Zhytomir.

    The parts that experienced communism later have lower homicide rates, crime rates, HIV rates, abortion rates and other indicators of social and moral degeneracy. Communist parts also have lower fertility rates, yet higher % of children born to unwed mothers. This was within the same Soviet Republic. And of course you can compare the 90s in Russia with the 90s in other places whose societies were less thoroughly Communized.

    So no, it isn't general human nature or Russian culture. It's Communism and its debilitating effect - the more generations infected by Soviet values, the worse the outcome.

    England has an acute white underclass problem (also in contrast to C&E Europe) and England wasn’t Communist…

    [MORE]

    Last week, for example, to the amazement of a doctor recently arrived from Madras, a woman in her late twenties entered our hospital with the most common condition that brings patients to us: a deliberate overdose. At first she would say nothing more than that she wanted to depart this world, that she had had enough of it.

    I inquired further. Just before she took the overdose, her ex-boyfriend, the father of her eight-month-old youngest child (now staying with her ex-boyfriend’s mother), had broken into her apartment by smashing down the front door. He wrecked the apartment’s contents, broke every window, stole $110 in cash, and ripped out her telephone.

    “He’s very violent, doctor.” (…)

    “What happened?”

    “I dropped the charges. His mother said he would change.”

    Another of her problems was that she was now five weeks pregnant and she didn’t want the baby.

    “I want to get rid of it, doctor.”

    “Who’s the father?”

    It was her violent ex-boyfriend, of course. (…)

    What had she known of this man before she took up with him? She met him in a club; he moved in at once, because he had nowhere else to stay. He had a child by another woman, neither of whom he supported. He had been in prison for burglary. He took drugs. He had never worked, except for cash on the side. Of course he never gave her any of his money, instead running up her telephone bills vertiginously.

    She had never married, but had two other children. The first, a daughter aged eight, still lived with her. The father was a man whom she left because she found he was having sex with 12-year-old girls. Her second child was a son, whose father was “an idiot” with whom she had slept one night. That child, now six, lived with the “idiot,” and she never saw him. (…)

    Later in the day, feeling a little lonely, she telephoned her ex-boyfriend, and he visited her.

    I discussed the case with the doctor who had recently arrived from Madras, and who felt he had entered an insane world. Not in his wildest dreams had he imagined it could be like this. There was nothing to compare with it in Madras. He asked me what would happen next to the happy couple.

    “They’ll find her a new flat. They’ll buy her new furniture, television, and refrigerator, because it’s unacceptable poverty in this day and age to live without them. They’ll charge her nothing for the damage to her old flat, because she can’t pay anyway, and it wasn’t she who did it. He will get away scot-free. Once she’s installed in her new flat to escape from him, she’ll invite him there, he’ll smash it up again, and then they’ll find her somewhere else to live. There is, in fact, nothing she can do that will deprive her of the state’s obligation to house, feed, and entertain her.”

    I asked the doctor from Madras if poverty was the word he would use to describe this woman’s situation. He said it was not: that her problem was that she accepted no limits to her own behavior, that she did not fear the possibility of hunger, the condemnation of her own parents or neighbors, or God. In other words, the squalor of England was not economic but spiritual, moral, and cultural.

    I often take my doctors from the Third World on the short walk from the hospital to the prison nearby. It is a most instructive 800 yards. On a good day—good for didactic purposes, that is—there are seven or eight puddles of glass shattered into fragments lying in the gutter en route (there are never none, except during the most inclement weather, when even those most addicted to car theft control their impulses).

    “Each of these little piles of smashed glass represents a car that has been broken into,” I tell them. “There will be more tomorrow, weather permitting.” The houses along the way are, as public housing goes, quite decent. The local authorities have at last accepted that herding people into giant, featureless, Le Corbusian concrete blocks was a mistake, and they have switched to the construction of individual houses. Only a few of their windows are boarded up. Certainly by comparison with housing for the poor in Bombay, Madras, or Manila they are spacious and luxurious indeed. Each has a little front yard of grass, surrounded by a hedge, and a much larger back yard; about half have satellite dishes. Unfortunately, the yards are almost as full of litter as municipal garbage dumps. (…)

    https://www.city-journal.org/html/what-poverty-11845.html

    To be clear, I’m suspicious of the flawed national character theory, too.

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    To be clear, I’m suspicious of the flawed national character theory, too.

    For those of us who haven't been hanging on your every word, can you elaborate on and explain the national character theory?

    , @AP
    1. If England also has such a problem too, this doesn't mean that the one in Russia wasn't caused by Communism. There may be more than one road to get to such a place. Moreover...

    2. I note that these people, dependent upon the government, are sort of living in a mini-commie society within the larger English society.

    3. The scale of the problem seems much smaller in England than in Russia. UK has half the HIV rate and 1/10 the homicide rate of Russia, and if the UK is like the USA these problems are most often found among minorities.
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  82. @iffen
    You would do better by learning how to think.

    The Bolsheviks seized power and intended to consolidate and secure that power. One thing that they were not was stupid. They knew with certainty that they would face armed resistance, both domestic and very likely foreign.

    Bolsheviks took power that nobody wanted. The country was falling apart and desintegrating at frightening speed.

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    Yes, can't beat luck, can you?
    , @anon
    It seems that you are not aware that "Bolsheviks" were actually a minority. Also, only 2% of population of Russian empire had belonged to the industrial workers before the revolutions of 1917/18.
    Bolsheviks were a terrorist organization that grabbed the power that did not belong to them. Read about the war communism. Read about the collectivization. Read Andrei Platonov.
    It is not decent to be so ignorant about the pre-Soviet history in the context of your peons to the Soviet government. The country was not falling apart - it was transforming into a European power. This is why Jacob Schiff and such had spent millions of dollars to stop Russia's development in the beginning of the 20th century.
    "21st Century Political Science:" https://books.google.com/books?id=_Er7CAAAQBAJ&pg=PA667&lpg=PA667&dq=Russia+1917+industrial+workers,+2%25+of+population&source
    "Wall Street & the November 1917 Bolshevik Revolution:" https://www.counter-currents.com/2013/10/wall-street-and-the-november-1917-bolshevik-revolution/
    "Who financed Lenin and Trotsky?" - http://www.wildboar.net/multilingual/easterneuropean/russian/literature/articles/whofinanced/whofinancedleninandtrotsky.html
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  83. iffen says:
    @ussr andy
    England has an acute white underclass problem (also in contrast to C&E Europe) and England wasn't Communist...

    Last week, for example, to the amazement of a doctor recently arrived from Madras, a woman in her late twenties entered our hospital with the most common condition that brings patients to us: a deliberate overdose. At first she would say nothing more than that she wanted to depart this world, that she had had enough of it.

    I inquired further. Just before she took the overdose, her ex-boyfriend, the father of her eight-month-old youngest child (now staying with her ex-boyfriend's mother), had broken into her apartment by smashing down the front door. He wrecked the apartment's contents, broke every window, stole $110 in cash, and ripped out her telephone.

    "He's very violent, doctor." (...)

    "What happened?"

    "I dropped the charges. His mother said he would change."

    Another of her problems was that she was now five weeks pregnant and she didn't want the baby.

    "I want to get rid of it, doctor."

    "Who's the father?"

    It was her violent ex-boyfriend, of course. (...)

    What had she known of this man before she took up with him? She met him in a club; he moved in at once, because he had nowhere else to stay. He had a child by another woman, neither of whom he supported. He had been in prison for burglary. He took drugs. He had never worked, except for cash on the side. Of course he never gave her any of his money, instead running up her telephone bills vertiginously.

    She had never married, but had two other children. The first, a daughter aged eight, still lived with her. The father was a man whom she left because she found he was having sex with 12-year-old girls. Her second child was a son, whose father was "an idiot" with whom she had slept one night. That child, now six, lived with the "idiot," and she never saw him. (...)

    Later in the day, feeling a little lonely, she telephoned her ex-boyfriend, and he visited her.

    I discussed the case with the doctor who had recently arrived from Madras, and who felt he had entered an insane world. Not in his wildest dreams had he imagined it could be like this. There was nothing to compare with it in Madras. He asked me what would happen next to the happy couple.

    "They'll find her a new flat. They'll buy her new furniture, television, and refrigerator, because it's unacceptable poverty in this day and age to live without them. They'll charge her nothing for the damage to her old flat, because she can't pay anyway, and it wasn't she who did it. He will get away scot-free. Once she's installed in her new flat to escape from him, she'll invite him there, he'll smash it up again, and then they'll find her somewhere else to live. There is, in fact, nothing she can do that will deprive her of the state's obligation to house, feed, and entertain her."

    I asked the doctor from Madras if poverty was the word he would use to describe this woman's situation. He said it was not: that her problem was that she accepted no limits to her own behavior, that she did not fear the possibility of hunger, the condemnation of her own parents or neighbors, or God. In other words, the squalor of England was not economic but spiritual, moral, and cultural.

    I often take my doctors from the Third World on the short walk from the hospital to the prison nearby. It is a most instructive 800 yards. On a good day—good for didactic purposes, that is—there are seven or eight puddles of glass shattered into fragments lying in the gutter en route (there are never none, except during the most inclement weather, when even those most addicted to car theft control their impulses).

    "Each of these little piles of smashed glass represents a car that has been broken into," I tell them. "There will be more tomorrow, weather permitting." The houses along the way are, as public housing goes, quite decent. The local authorities have at last accepted that herding people into giant, featureless, Le Corbusian concrete blocks was a mistake, and they have switched to the construction of individual houses. Only a few of their windows are boarded up. Certainly by comparison with housing for the poor in Bombay, Madras, or Manila they are spacious and luxurious indeed. Each has a little front yard of grass, surrounded by a hedge, and a much larger back yard; about half have satellite dishes. Unfortunately, the yards are almost as full of litter as municipal garbage dumps. (...)
     
    https://www.city-journal.org/html/what-poverty-11845.html

    To be clear, I'm suspicious of the flawed national character theory, too.

    To be clear, I’m suspicious of the flawed national character theory, too.

    For those of us who haven’t been hanging on your every word, can you elaborate on and explain the national character theory?

    Read More
    • Replies: @ussr andy

    Sergey Krieger says:
    That would be another story. It has more to do with general human nature and specifically Russian national character flaws. (...)
     


    AP says:
    (...)
    So no, it isn’t general human nature or Russian culture. It’s Communism and its debilitating effect – the more generations infected by Soviet values, the worse the outcome.

     

    I'm just saying that mine "attacking" one conclusion (AP's) doesn't mean I agree with the other (Sergey's)
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  84. iffen says:
    @Sergey Krieger
    Bolsheviks took power that nobody wanted. The country was falling apart and desintegrating at frightening speed.

    Yes, can’t beat luck, can you?

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  85. AP says:
    @Sergey Krieger
    Well. I agree about trajectory. Lost Russo Japanese war than lost WW1. Excuses irrelevant. Regarding literacy in Russia just posting those numbers won't help. Peasants still always stayed peasants at most becoming factory workers. So called literate could often only read and often forgot even that skill. By and large Russia was left behind and ww1 plainly sealed Russia fate. Victorious countries do not disentegration, population does not rise against government... During WW2, Soviet people despite far larger losses and hardship stood by Soviet leadership. Soviet army out produced the whole of Europe which consisted of the countries which used to have large advantage over Russia in 1914 in manufacturing capacity. Also, the whole trend of trying to smere Soviet past on which modern Russia depends in every aspect while trying to glorify pre 1917 past is quite logical. It is attempt to get away with stolen property by elites hence the need in people like Anatolii and others who are doing this job. It is logical. We're all those fundamental scientific and industrial complexes built under old regime? Nope. Was population 100% educated minimum to 10 classes plus professional education and then higher education on such scale in n old Russia? What about healthcare? You really want to dig deep? You do not want to dig deep because you will find things that will leave your illusions shuttered.

    Well. I agree about trajectory. Lost Russo Japanese war than lost WW1.

    Lost to Japan. Then, crushed Austria-Hungary and Ottoman Empire, but lost to Germany (actually, more like gave up fighting rather than was defeated on the battlefield). So trajectory is clear.

    Regarding literacy in Russia just posting those numbers won’t help.

    Some facts are inconvenient?

    During WW2, Soviet people despite far larger losses and hardship stood by Soviet leadership

    During WW II, the enemy was openly genociding the Soviet people. What choice did they have? A silly comparison. But in the very first few months of World War II, before this became clear, there was plenty of surrendering and greeting of the invader.

    We’re all those fundamental scientific and industrial complexes built under old regime?

    Old regime didn’t have mass electrification either. Nor did it have commercial airliners. Or computers. You think if not for the Soviets, these things wouldn’t exist in Russia?

    Interesting that you ignored my other post. Perhaps “You do not want to dig deep because you will find things that will leave your illusions shuttered?”

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  86. ussr andy says:
    @iffen
    To be clear, I’m suspicious of the flawed national character theory, too.

    For those of us who haven't been hanging on your every word, can you elaborate on and explain the national character theory?

    Sergey Krieger says:
    That would be another story. It has more to do with general human nature and specifically Russian national character flaws. (…)

    AP says:
    (…)
    So no, it isn’t general human nature or Russian culture. It’s Communism and its debilitating effect – the more generations infected by Soviet values, the worse the outcome.

    I’m just saying that mine “attacking” one conclusion (AP’s) doesn’t mean I agree with the other (Sergey’s)

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    Got it. Thanks.

    Cognitive and class stratification is the picture in GB. It has come to the US in the last 25 years. If and when CE becomes meritocratic and individualist like the US and GB then the underclass will be easy enough to spot.
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  87. AP says:
    @ussr andy
    England has an acute white underclass problem (also in contrast to C&E Europe) and England wasn't Communist...

    Last week, for example, to the amazement of a doctor recently arrived from Madras, a woman in her late twenties entered our hospital with the most common condition that brings patients to us: a deliberate overdose. At first she would say nothing more than that she wanted to depart this world, that she had had enough of it.

    I inquired further. Just before she took the overdose, her ex-boyfriend, the father of her eight-month-old youngest child (now staying with her ex-boyfriend's mother), had broken into her apartment by smashing down the front door. He wrecked the apartment's contents, broke every window, stole $110 in cash, and ripped out her telephone.

    "He's very violent, doctor." (...)

    "What happened?"

    "I dropped the charges. His mother said he would change."

    Another of her problems was that she was now five weeks pregnant and she didn't want the baby.

    "I want to get rid of it, doctor."

    "Who's the father?"

    It was her violent ex-boyfriend, of course. (...)

    What had she known of this man before she took up with him? She met him in a club; he moved in at once, because he had nowhere else to stay. He had a child by another woman, neither of whom he supported. He had been in prison for burglary. He took drugs. He had never worked, except for cash on the side. Of course he never gave her any of his money, instead running up her telephone bills vertiginously.

    She had never married, but had two other children. The first, a daughter aged eight, still lived with her. The father was a man whom she left because she found he was having sex with 12-year-old girls. Her second child was a son, whose father was "an idiot" with whom she had slept one night. That child, now six, lived with the "idiot," and she never saw him. (...)

    Later in the day, feeling a little lonely, she telephoned her ex-boyfriend, and he visited her.

    I discussed the case with the doctor who had recently arrived from Madras, and who felt he had entered an insane world. Not in his wildest dreams had he imagined it could be like this. There was nothing to compare with it in Madras. He asked me what would happen next to the happy couple.

    "They'll find her a new flat. They'll buy her new furniture, television, and refrigerator, because it's unacceptable poverty in this day and age to live without them. They'll charge her nothing for the damage to her old flat, because she can't pay anyway, and it wasn't she who did it. He will get away scot-free. Once she's installed in her new flat to escape from him, she'll invite him there, he'll smash it up again, and then they'll find her somewhere else to live. There is, in fact, nothing she can do that will deprive her of the state's obligation to house, feed, and entertain her."

    I asked the doctor from Madras if poverty was the word he would use to describe this woman's situation. He said it was not: that her problem was that she accepted no limits to her own behavior, that she did not fear the possibility of hunger, the condemnation of her own parents or neighbors, or God. In other words, the squalor of England was not economic but spiritual, moral, and cultural.

    I often take my doctors from the Third World on the short walk from the hospital to the prison nearby. It is a most instructive 800 yards. On a good day—good for didactic purposes, that is—there are seven or eight puddles of glass shattered into fragments lying in the gutter en route (there are never none, except during the most inclement weather, when even those most addicted to car theft control their impulses).

    "Each of these little piles of smashed glass represents a car that has been broken into," I tell them. "There will be more tomorrow, weather permitting." The houses along the way are, as public housing goes, quite decent. The local authorities have at last accepted that herding people into giant, featureless, Le Corbusian concrete blocks was a mistake, and they have switched to the construction of individual houses. Only a few of their windows are boarded up. Certainly by comparison with housing for the poor in Bombay, Madras, or Manila they are spacious and luxurious indeed. Each has a little front yard of grass, surrounded by a hedge, and a much larger back yard; about half have satellite dishes. Unfortunately, the yards are almost as full of litter as municipal garbage dumps. (...)
     
    https://www.city-journal.org/html/what-poverty-11845.html

    To be clear, I'm suspicious of the flawed national character theory, too.

    1. If England also has such a problem too, this doesn’t mean that the one in Russia wasn’t caused by Communism. There may be more than one road to get to such a place. Moreover…

    2. I note that these people, dependent upon the government, are sort of living in a mini-commie society within the larger English society.

    3. The scale of the problem seems much smaller in England than in Russia. UK has half the HIV rate and 1/10 the homicide rate of Russia, and if the UK is like the USA these problems are most often found among minorities.

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  88. iffen says:
    @ussr andy

    Sergey Krieger says:
    That would be another story. It has more to do with general human nature and specifically Russian national character flaws. (...)
     


    AP says:
    (...)
    So no, it isn’t general human nature or Russian culture. It’s Communism and its debilitating effect – the more generations infected by Soviet values, the worse the outcome.

     

    I'm just saying that mine "attacking" one conclusion (AP's) doesn't mean I agree with the other (Sergey's)

    Got it. Thanks.

    Cognitive and class stratification is the picture in GB. It has come to the US in the last 25 years. If and when CE becomes meritocratic and individualist like the US and GB then the underclass will be easy enough to spot.

    Read More
    • Replies: @ussr andy

    If and when CE becomes meritocratic and individualist like the US and GB
     
    I think it's really just the Anglophone countries and Russia. The rest somehow manages being competitive without being Dickensian. Trade unionism worked better in Germany than in England (and especially America), too. It's a good thing Eastern Europe (with the exception of Russia) seems to follow Central Europe's example rather than GB's.
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  89. Ig says:

    Yes, Putin is in this sense naive idiot.
    He has to rid Russia of name Katz and his members of 13th tribe.

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  90. ussr andy says:
    @iffen
    Got it. Thanks.

    Cognitive and class stratification is the picture in GB. It has come to the US in the last 25 years. If and when CE becomes meritocratic and individualist like the US and GB then the underclass will be easy enough to spot.

    If and when CE becomes meritocratic and individualist like the US and GB

    I think it’s really just the Anglophone countries and Russia. The rest somehow manages being competitive without being Dickensian. Trade unionism worked better in Germany than in England (and especially America), too. It’s a good thing Eastern Europe (with the exception of Russia) seems to follow Central Europe’s example rather than GB’s.

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    • Replies: @iffen
    The rest somehow manages being competitive without being Dickensian.

    Excellent points.

    The Chinese seem to have some sort of hyper competition without the hyper individualism, but I really don't know much about China.
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  91. iffen says:
    @ussr andy

    If and when CE becomes meritocratic and individualist like the US and GB
     
    I think it's really just the Anglophone countries and Russia. The rest somehow manages being competitive without being Dickensian. Trade unionism worked better in Germany than in England (and especially America), too. It's a good thing Eastern Europe (with the exception of Russia) seems to follow Central Europe's example rather than GB's.

    The rest somehow manages being competitive without being Dickensian.

    Excellent points.

    The Chinese seem to have some sort of hyper competition without the hyper individualism, but I really don’t know much about China.

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  92. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Sergey Krieger
    Bolsheviks took power that nobody wanted. The country was falling apart and desintegrating at frightening speed.

    It seems that you are not aware that “Bolsheviks” were actually a minority. Also, only 2% of population of Russian empire had belonged to the industrial workers before the revolutions of 1917/18.
    Bolsheviks were a terrorist organization that grabbed the power that did not belong to them. Read about the war communism. Read about the collectivization. Read Andrei Platonov.
    It is not decent to be so ignorant about the pre-Soviet history in the context of your peons to the Soviet government. The country was not falling apart – it was transforming into a European power. This is why Jacob Schiff and such had spent millions of dollars to stop Russia’s development in the beginning of the 20th century.
    “21st Century Political Science:” https://books.google.com/books?id=_Er7CAAAQBAJ&pg=PA667&lpg=PA667&dq=Russia+1917+industrial+workers,+2%25+of+population&source
    “Wall Street & the November 1917 Bolshevik Revolution:” https://www.counter-currents.com/2013/10/wall-street-and-the-november-1917-bolshevik-revolution/
    “Who financed Lenin and Trotsky?” – http://www.wildboar.net/multilingual/easterneuropean/russian/literature/articles/whofinanced/whofinancedleninandtrotsky.html

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