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Why Tax Breaks Won't Stop High-Tech, H-1B Human Trafficking
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“If the tax reform bill goes through, do you plan to increase your company’s capital investment?”

The question was posed to a sizeable group of CEOs at The Wall Street Journal’s CEO Council, in the presence of White House economic adviser Gary Cohn.

A pitiful show of hands failed to wipe the smirk off Mr. Cohn’s face. But at least the knaves were candid. Tax cuts for American big businesses are unlikely to move corporations to deploy that capital to raise the wages of the little guy, the worker.

The repatriation deal planned for fat-cat multinationals is particularly sweet. But don’t expect the “one-time tax rate of 12 percent on cash returns and five percent on non-cash for corporate money repatriated from overseas” to spur investment in the U.S.

Ideally, policymakers would prefer, as Business Insider quips, for companies to “reinvest in their core businesses, as this holds the most direct bearing on economic expansion.” All the president’s men certainly preach it.

But President Trump’s plan to grant the multinationals, tech titans included, a tax holiday, is more likely to see capital used to tinker with share prices. Repurchasing shares, a share buyback, will boost stock prices and benefit large shareholders.

Where a multinational also traffics in human labor, globally—as do the likes of Apple, Cisco, Microsoft, Oracle, Qualcomm, etc.—a lower tax rate on their repatriated earnings is unlikely to redound to American computer programmers and engineers.

In the event these tax holidays encourage American high-tech to “reinvest in their core businesses”—it will not be an investment in employing American talent, which will continue to be replaced apace with foreign workers.

For accretion in employment among Americans to occur, the president would have to turn off the H-1B (and other visa) spigots. He has not.

Multinationals consider the world their labor market. High-tech traitors will continue to replace the worker bees of American STEM—science, technology, engineering and mathematics—with reliably mediocre, culturally aggressive, foreign workers.

And not necessarily because foreign workers are cheaper. Importing workers from India calls for enormous in-house bureaucracies to handle immigration applications and renewals, attendant litigation, and family importation and resettlement packages for tribes of new arrivals (also known as chain migrants). This isn’t necessarily cheaper than employing your local lass or lad.

The H-1B visa racket is, however, a taxpayer-subsidized, grant of government privilege. Duly, profits remain private property. The costs of accommodating an annual human influx are socialized, borne by the bewildered community.

Moreover, with the exception of Indian companies, such as notorious H-1B hogs Infosys and Tata, visa holders in “marquee high-tech firms like Google and Microsoft” are not paid inferior wages. That’s against American labor and anti-discrimination law.

ORDER IT NOW

From the fact that an oversupply of high-tech workers has lowered wages for all techies, it does not follow that the (average) men and women imported are being exploited. Rather, it is the glut of average worker bees—their abundance—that has depressed wages for that particular, high-tech cohort.

So, please conservatives, quit crying croc over alleged exploitation, in the high-tech industry, of poor, foreign-born, “indentured slave-labor.” Misplacing compassion does not add force to the argument, for these are the facts:

Again, H-1B visa holders are not paid inferior wages; they’re getting a fabulous deal. Remember: Voluntary exchanges are by definition advantageous to their participants. They involve giving up something one values less (life in Calcutta) for something one values more (life in Seattle), and finding someone else with “opposite valuations”: An Amazon or Microsoft CEO who values people from Calculate more than kids from Kent.

Humor aside, ceteris paribus (all other things being equal), the H-1B visa holder forfeits his (unexceptional) labor for a salary many times the salary he’d get in India or China or Pakistan. If he were not incalculably better off than he was in his previous life, he would not have taken a calculated risk … in a plush American office or a well-capitalized US laboratory.

No, it’s the American STEM worker who is stiffed.

Perversely, companies such as Qualcomm, Hewlett-Packard and Microsoft pair aggressive demands for more H-1B visas (those shortages, you know) with a ruthless downsizing of domestic workers—this worker deserves your tears, not his imported replacement.

The price of labor in the high-tech labor market is a function of a political, artificially created, ceaseless supply of immigrants. Prattle about the price at which American workers will do certain work is meaningless without a reference to borders and to the thing they bound—communities. Render asunder the quaint idea of borders—and the world is your labor market; communities be damned.

Realize that this ceaseless supply of labor is maintained not through peaceful market forces, but through the use of political power, wielded by wealthy men and women with access. At work here is their Brave New Borderless World, not the invisible hand we love.

Look deeper before maligning the Profit Motive, as the Left wants you to do. Power, more than profits, is what animates high-tech. Just imagine the thrill of seeing your idea of virtue turned into policy that affects the greatest economy in the world.

For tech superstars are true believers in the borderless multicultural state. These arrogant CEOs and their minions are social-justice warriors, first; giants of industry, second.

Already billionaires, tech execs derive greater pleasure from signaling their virtue (via immigration) than from turning a profit. They aim for stardom in Davos, Switzerland, not Des Moines, Iowa.

Ilana Mercer has been writing a weekly paleolibertarian column since 1999, and is the author of The Trump Revolution: The Donald’s Creative Destruction Deconstructed (June, 2016) & Into the Cannibal’s Pot: Lessons for America From Post-Apartheid South Africa (2011). Follow her on Twitter, Facebook & YouTube.

 
• Category: Economics • Tags: H1-B Visas, Immigration, Silicon Valley, Taxes 
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  1. “the H-1B visa holder forfeits his (unexceptional) labor for a salary many times the salary he’d get in India or China or Pakistan.”

    Well, not all of us former H1Bs were from China or India, although those two countries do indeed dominate. India alone has the bulk of the market, which is unfortunate given the rampant fraud in India, poor educational standards, and low average IQ.

    (Indian documentation is so untrustworthy that an Indian fellow in Berkeley CA was able to import teenage sex slaves as H1Bs).

    In general yes, the H1B is generally getting a good deal, which is why there is so much competition for the spots available each year.

    The bigger issue is the low qualifications of these people. Some of us are exceptions (e.g., surgeons, PhD bearing scientists), but the majority of H1Bs are young men from India with mere bachelor’s degrees. This in a country rife with educational and credential fraud, and with no universities in the top 50 globally in any field.

    I’d also love to see stats released on the costs to insurance policy holders and governments on account of the massive levels of fraud that south asians engage in.

    Read More
    • Agree: Alden
    • Replies: @Anonymous

    Indian documentation is so untrustworthy that an Indian fellow in Berkeley CA was able to import teenage sex slaves as H1Bs
     
    Haha. Do you have a link?
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  2. Thomm says:

    The H1-B should be done away with. It is not good for the imported worker, OR the domestic competitor. The only immigrants should be high-skill, and then paid market wages (numerically, most of these will still be from India and China).

    Get rid of the H1-B.

    There will be proportionally more outsourcing to India in response, of course. WN wiggers will still complain about that, but they don’t matter at any rate.

    Read More
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  3. Thomm says:

    Whoa, Ilana Mercer’s Twitter feed indicates that she is insanely jealous of Ivanka Trump.

    Whatever Ivanka’s other flaws, Ilana appears to be the latest example of Steve Sailer’s Law of Female Journalism.

    Read More
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  4. LKM says:

    What other countries engage in open economic warfare against their populations? Israel has a huge hi-tech industry. How many Gujaratis can you find coding in Tel Aviv or Haifa? Not many I’d wager. Korea, Japan and Singapore all have hi-tech clusters, but as far as I’m aware, no policy like this.

    Read More
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  5. “Power, more than profits, is what animates high-tech.”

    I am reminded of a young man, a graduate in biochemistry from Japan, who was working on an H1B visa in a research lab. He told me he wanted to stay with his job and in the USA, but he was being pressured to sign off on research results that were not real. (He had been told that he must sign off on certain results or else te company would cancel his visa.) He refused to do so, and he was forced to return to Japan. I could not help but think: ‘Suppose the victim of the H1B scam had been from, say, Bangladesh?’ My informant believed that his direct superior needed certain results to justify the employing corporation in making representations that would result in further investments by the investing public in the company.

    As is the case with sex slaves, although tech research is a very different field, it is true in both cases that power corrupts and great power corrupts greatly.

    H1B visas are a source of corruption in investments, undermining operation of the capitalist system here in the USA.

    What is wrong with the Trump administration? Or is it the GOP majority in Congress? Or both?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Bro Methylene
    I don't know what the problem with Trump is. Or with the Republicans in the House and the Senate. As we all know, immigration policy in general, and the H1B program in particular, were not problems before January 20th, 2017. If only we could be rid of that Orange Nazi!
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  6. “Power, more than profits, is what animates high-tech.”
    I’m sure that power & virtue signaling are part of the equation — however, I can’t imagine profits are too far from the minds of Tech CEO’s…

    Read More
    • Replies: @Realist
    "— however, I can’t imagine profits are too far from the minds of Tech CEO’s…"

    Without money these assholes have no power.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  7. Realist says:

    The corporate tax rate reduction should be given to corporations that only employ US citizens to produce products sold in the US and repatriate the off shore money used to hedge US taxes. This restriction should be written into the law.
    There are many lying asshole Congressmen who claim that ‘of course corporations will hire more American workers’. This is bullshit corporations will use the tax breaks to buy back stocks….not to hire more American workers.

    Read More
    • Replies: @botazefa
    A corporation is a licensed legal entity, no? I agree with you. We should have guidelines that specify what corporations are allowed to do, what their citizen employee ratio should be, etc. If they don't like that, let them repatriate. We support these elite corporations with a military, patent law, educational system, and a consumer base. It is hardly inappropriate for us to demand that they be good citizens.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  8. @Grandpa Charlie

    "Power, more than profits, is what animates high-tech."
     
    I am reminded of a young man, a graduate in biochemistry from Japan, who was working on an H1B visa in a research lab. He told me he wanted to stay with his job and in the USA, but he was being pressured to sign off on research results that were not real. (He had been told that he must sign off on certain results or else te company would cancel his visa.) He refused to do so, and he was forced to return to Japan. I could not help but think: 'Suppose the victim of the H1B scam had been from, say, Bangladesh?' My informant believed that his direct superior needed certain results to justify the employing corporation in making representations that would result in further investments by the investing public in the company.

    As is the case with sex slaves, although tech research is a very different field, it is true in both cases that power corrupts and great power corrupts greatly.

    H1B visas are a source of corruption in investments, undermining operation of the capitalist system here in the USA.

    What is wrong with the Trump administration? Or is it the GOP majority in Congress? Or both?

    I don’t know what the problem with Trump is. Or with the Republicans in the House and the Senate. As we all know, immigration policy in general, and the H1B program in particular, were not problems before January 20th, 2017. If only we could be rid of that Orange Nazi!

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  9. “… don’t expect the “one-time tax rate of 12 percent on cash returns and five percent on non-cash for corporate money repatriated from overseas” to spur investment in the U.S.”

    Two things here:

    1) The cash held overseas is likely to have already been taxed, albeit at lower rates abroad. There will be a tax credit against that that reduces what is ultimately taxable in the US.

    2) You only repatriate money if you can use it more productively back home. Of course, for many executives, “more productively” does indeed include share buy-backs and increased bonuses.

    What is worse still is that executives are so disdainful of the local US labour pool as a bloc that they are willing to destroy the society in which they in order to reduce its bargaining power.

    Nearly everyone in the C-Suite of American companies, the exception being H1Bs who rose to the top, like the proverbial matter that they generally are, know that the vast majority of H1Bs and their work is crap, but on the whole they are cheaper than home-grown talent, and they do drive down wages across the board; the crime in this is the cynical calculation that the average worker, be he or she imported or domestic, really does little to add value, therefore wages must be driven down. Kind of like sending vast armies of people out with scissors to cut the lawn.

    The bigger crime is that small-and mid-sized Company America, which used to be the engine of growth and a countervailing force against the evil tendencies of Corporate America, are being destroyed by the political and bureaucratic machinery that is beholden to and captured by Corporate America.

    Read More
    • Replies: @KenH
    Small and mid-sized companies are getting acquired by the giant transnationals all the time. Then the very small suppliers get threatened with loss of business if they don't cut their prices 10-30%. Never mind that their costs are increasing all the time. And they usually lose some business anyway as it gets transferred to Mexico, the pacific rim or Eastern Europe.

    Twenty to twenty five years ago they could just give that company the middle finger and go find new customers but those potential new customers have also been absorbed, which forces them to accede to the new terms.

    This is a massive transfer of wealth from the middle to the top and how the middle class is being downsized and wiped out.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  10. Terminating the H1 VISA programs and their relatives is as good a place to start as any.

    Including it’s kin DACA –

    Read More
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  11. JackOH says:

    The goal of the trustees at my local state university is to drive wages and salaries down—way down. I’m talking about support workers who once earned about $18 an hour being replaced by $10 an hour workers. That’s the difference between making a modest, independent living in my low-cost area, and living hand-to-mouth. Professors with their terminal degrees working as permanent adjuncts at $30 thousand annually with no benefits. There are some H1-B professors here.

    It’s important to understand by how much American workers are getting whacked. What I’m seeing from my limited perspective is that our business elites are okay with wage and salary cuts of maybe 40%-70% through outsourcing, H1-Bs, off-shoring, union-busting, and so on. They have no concern about quality of work and quality of product, and absolutely none about civic comity. They are perfectly okay with privatizing profits, selling inferior products whose cost of defects are absorbed by the consumer, and socializing the expenses of the turmoil they cause.

    Read More
    • Replies: @edNels
    Pretty good article by Mercer that hits the mark on what I care about.

    Comment by JackOH is to the point too.

    this cut in particular: […

    our business elites are okay with wage and salary cuts of maybe 40%-70% through outsourcing, H1-Bs, off-shoring, union-busting
     
    ,]
    from:

    It’s important to understand by how much American workers are getting whacked. What I’m seeing from my limited perspective is that our business elites are okay with wage and salary cuts of maybe 40%-70% through outsourcing, H1-Bs, off-shoring, union-busting, and so on. They have no concern about quality of work and quality of product, and absolutely none about civic comity. They are perfectly okay with privatizing profits, selling inferior products whose cost of defects are absorbed by the consumer, and socializing the expenses of the turmoil they cause
     
    .

    Ok with that in mind, let me wonder, what % of these so called business (elites, or not so elite,) just what_ % of heads of business today ever spent any time in the working world? Or (on the line?)

    The days of self made Entrepreneurs to the side, today it's more like something a lot less Boot straps and more legacy-entitlement based. Upward mobility is a useful myth.

    But there continues a self righteous call for unrestricted freedom for... call it, Gresham's law: Bad money replaces good money. Case in point, China imported ersatz crap: look out below if you thought you ever heard of built in obsolescence too. Widgets made of potmetal, and poison dog food! (the country is now being permeated with defective replacement parts, which may be a sleeper disaster to come soon.) That's another digression off this.

    […

    how much American workers are getting whacked
     
    .

    So, following that trend and in that vain, be it resolved: To give incentive to H1-Bs to proceed immediately to Go…. Go to the Airport and Go, Take their asses back to their Cesspools of origins, but make it obligatory to pay taxes first and take all family members with them, otherwise, it wouldn't work. The Hyenas would go back with loot
    and start new ones, (automatic!)

    Americans alas were too nice, like the sheep they became.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  12. KenH says:
    @The Alarmist

    "... don’t expect the “one-time tax rate of 12 percent on cash returns and five percent on non-cash for corporate money repatriated from overseas” to spur investment in the U.S."
     
    Two things here:

    1) The cash held overseas is likely to have already been taxed, albeit at lower rates abroad. There will be a tax credit against that that reduces what is ultimately taxable in the US.

    2) You only repatriate money if you can use it more productively back home. Of course, for many executives, "more productively" does indeed include share buy-backs and increased bonuses.

    What is worse still is that executives are so disdainful of the local US labour pool as a bloc that they are willing to destroy the society in which they in order to reduce its bargaining power.

    Nearly everyone in the C-Suite of American companies, the exception being H1Bs who rose to the top, like the proverbial matter that they generally are, know that the vast majority of H1Bs and their work is crap, but on the whole they are cheaper than home-grown talent, and they do drive down wages across the board; the crime in this is the cynical calculation that the average worker, be he or she imported or domestic, really does little to add value, therefore wages must be driven down. Kind of like sending vast armies of people out with scissors to cut the lawn.

    The bigger crime is that small-and mid-sized Company America, which used to be the engine of growth and a countervailing force against the evil tendencies of Corporate America, are being destroyed by the political and bureaucratic machinery that is beholden to and captured by Corporate America.

    Small and mid-sized companies are getting acquired by the giant transnationals all the time. Then the very small suppliers get threatened with loss of business if they don’t cut their prices 10-30%. Never mind that their costs are increasing all the time. And they usually lose some business anyway as it gets transferred to Mexico, the pacific rim or Eastern Europe.

    Twenty to twenty five years ago they could just give that company the middle finger and go find new customers but those potential new customers have also been absorbed, which forces them to accede to the new terms.

    This is a massive transfer of wealth from the middle to the top and how the middle class is being downsized and wiped out.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  13. TG says:

    Kudos, well said.

    However, I do take issue with the following: “For tech superstars are true believers in the borderless multicultural state. These arrogant CEOs and their minions are social-justice warriors, first; giants of industry, second.”

    IMHO It’s profit first, second and third. If all those third-world refugees pouring into the country threatened the slightest luxury of our elites, they would be machine-gunned at the border and no tears shed, believe it.

    “It may appear to be the interest of the rulers, and the rich of a state, to force population, and thereby lower the price of labour, and consequently the expense of fleets and armies, and the cost of manufactures for foreign sale; but every attempt of the kind should be carefully watched and strenuously resisted by the friends of the poor, particularly when it comes under the deceitful guise of benevolence…”
    T.R. Malthus, “An Essay on the Principle of Population”, 1798

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  14. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @jbwilson24
    "the H-1B visa holder forfeits his (unexceptional) labor for a salary many times the salary he’d get in India or China or Pakistan."

    Well, not all of us former H1Bs were from China or India, although those two countries do indeed dominate. India alone has the bulk of the market, which is unfortunate given the rampant fraud in India, poor educational standards, and low average IQ.

    (Indian documentation is so untrustworthy that an Indian fellow in Berkeley CA was able to import teenage sex slaves as H1Bs).

    In general yes, the H1B is generally getting a good deal, which is why there is so much competition for the spots available each year.

    The bigger issue is the low qualifications of these people. Some of us are exceptions (e.g., surgeons, PhD bearing scientists), but the majority of H1Bs are young men from India with mere bachelor's degrees. This in a country rife with educational and credential fraud, and with no universities in the top 50 globally in any field.

    I'd also love to see stats released on the costs to insurance policy holders and governments on account of the massive levels of fraud that south asians engage in.

    Indian documentation is so untrustworthy that an Indian fellow in Berkeley CA was able to import teenage sex slaves as H1Bs

    Haha. Do you have a link?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Chuckie
    See link at comment 30.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  15. botazefa says:
    @Realist
    The corporate tax rate reduction should be given to corporations that only employ US citizens to produce products sold in the US and repatriate the off shore money used to hedge US taxes. This restriction should be written into the law.
    There are many lying asshole Congressmen who claim that 'of course corporations will hire more American workers'. This is bullshit corporations will use the tax breaks to buy back stocks....not to hire more American workers.

    A corporation is a licensed legal entity, no? I agree with you. We should have guidelines that specify what corporations are allowed to do, what their citizen employee ratio should be, etc. If they don’t like that, let them repatriate. We support these elite corporations with a military, patent law, educational system, and a consumer base. It is hardly inappropriate for us to demand that they be good citizens.

    Read More
    • Agree: Realist
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    The Corporation - Full Movie:

    https://hooktube.com/watch?v=xHrhqtY2khc

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  16. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @botazefa
    A corporation is a licensed legal entity, no? I agree with you. We should have guidelines that specify what corporations are allowed to do, what their citizen employee ratio should be, etc. If they don't like that, let them repatriate. We support these elite corporations with a military, patent law, educational system, and a consumer base. It is hardly inappropriate for us to demand that they be good citizens.

    The Corporation – Full Movie:

    https://hooktube.com/watch?v=xHrhqtY2khc

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  17. edNels says:
    @JackOH
    The goal of the trustees at my local state university is to drive wages and salaries down---way down. I'm talking about support workers who once earned about $18 an hour being replaced by $10 an hour workers. That's the difference between making a modest, independent living in my low-cost area, and living hand-to-mouth. Professors with their terminal degrees working as permanent adjuncts at $30 thousand annually with no benefits. There are some H1-B professors here.

    It's important to understand by how much American workers are getting whacked. What I'm seeing from my limited perspective is that our business elites are okay with wage and salary cuts of maybe 40%-70% through outsourcing, H1-Bs, off-shoring, union-busting, and so on. They have no concern about quality of work and quality of product, and absolutely none about civic comity. They are perfectly okay with privatizing profits, selling inferior products whose cost of defects are absorbed by the consumer, and socializing the expenses of the turmoil they cause.

    Pretty good article by Mercer that hits the mark on what I care about.

    Comment by JackOH is to the point too.

    this cut in particular: […

    our business elites are okay with wage and salary cuts of maybe 40%-70% through outsourcing, H1-Bs, off-shoring, union-busting

    ,]
    from:

    It’s important to understand by how much American workers are getting whacked. What I’m seeing from my limited perspective is that our business elites are okay with wage and salary cuts of maybe 40%-70% through outsourcing, H1-Bs, off-shoring, union-busting, and so on. They have no concern about quality of work and quality of product, and absolutely none about civic comity. They are perfectly okay with privatizing profits, selling inferior products whose cost of defects are absorbed by the consumer, and socializing the expenses of the turmoil they cause

    .

    Ok with that in mind, let me wonder, what % of these so called business (elites, or not so elite,) just what_ % of heads of business today ever spent any time in the working world? Or (on the line?)

    The days of self made Entrepreneurs to the side, today it’s more like something a lot less Boot straps and more legacy-entitlement based. Upward mobility is a useful myth.

    But there continues a self righteous call for unrestricted freedom for… call it, Gresham’s law: Bad money replaces good money. Case in point, China imported ersatz crap: look out below if you thought you ever heard of built in obsolescence too. Widgets made of potmetal, and poison dog food! (the country is now being permeated with defective replacement parts, which may be a sleeper disaster to come soon.) That’s another digression off this.

    […

    how much American workers are getting whacked

    .

    So, following that trend and in that vain, be it resolved: To give incentive to H1-Bs to proceed immediately to Go…. Go to the Airport and Go, Take their asses back to their Cesspools of origins, but make it obligatory to pay taxes first and take all family members with them, otherwise, it wouldn’t work. The Hyenas would go back with loot
    and start new ones, (automatic!)

    Americans alas were too nice, like the sheep they became.

    Read More
    • Replies: @JackOH
    What we need is a Million Geek March on Washington next spring. Or call it a Million Manager March, or Million Engineer March, or sumpin'.

    Simple, positive demands. Jobs for Americans (IOW, end visa programs). Jobs for breadwinners (IOW, end affirmative action) Maybe two or three more, but always framed positively.

    Uniform for the March? NASA engineer circa 1960s. Short-sleeved white shirt, narrow tie, shirt pocket protector, belt-mounted calculator case.

    Anyone got the chops to organize something like that?
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  18. anarchyst says:

    Henry Ford CREATED a market which had not existed when he paid his employees $5.00 per day. The average wage of the day was around $1.25 per day. Of course, the wall street types and the banksters howled that Ford’s wage rates would destroy capitalism. Guess what?? The OPPOSITE happened. Henry Ford knew one of the basic tenets of a truly free, capitalistic society, that a well-paid work force would be able to participate and contribute to a strong economy, unlike what is taught in business schools today–that wages must be kept to a bare minimum and that the stockholder is king. Our “free trade” politicians have assisted the greedy wall street types and banksters in depressing wages on the promise of cheap foreign labor and products. A good example of this is the negative criticism that Costco receives for paying its employees well above market wages. These same wall street types praise Wal-Mart for paying its employees barely subsistence wages while assisting them in filling out their “public assistance” (welfare) forms. Any sane person KNOWS that in order for capitalism to work, employees need to make an adequate wage. Unfortunately, this premise does not exist in today’s business climate.
    Henry Ford openly criticized those of the “tribe” for manipulating wall street and banksters to their own advantage, and was roundly (and unjustly) criticized for pointing out the TRUTH. Catholic priest, Father Coughlin did the same thing and was punished by the Catholic church, despite his popularity and exposing the TRUTH of the American economy and the outsider internationalists that ran it . . . and STILL run it.
    Our “race to the bottom” will not be without consequences. A great “realignment is necessary (and is coming) . .

    Read More
    • Replies: @Another Realist
    That's because Henry Ford was not a Jew. Wall Street is run by Jews, and now so are most tech firms in the US, even those not started by Jews are run by Jews, including all the venture capitalists - the new vampire squids of the tech industry. They want the cheapest labor possible to maximize immediate profit. Jews are greedy and short sighted, that's why they destroy every society they live in.
    , @Anonymous
    Ford was a monster, he hired gangsters to beat his help down, the help actually revolted to some degree. The legend of course, is that he paid 'em enough for the factory's output, full stop. Workers were dropping dead if they even made it to age 50 after a few decades of working in toxic manufacturing facilities. If it would have been cheaper to import Chinamen or move it to Mexico, it was already on the drawing board at Ford. Stuff that up your Mustang, American fools!

    Henry Ford had the access to buy off parts of the US Government, bankers were his friends. He sat down to dinner with the German Military during the formation of the Reich. He helped them wage war, then turned around and "helped himself again" by helping the US defeat said Nazis. Can't do that without Wall Street. After the war, and out of the rubble, the factories were turned on once again in "the Fatherland" for the "falcons" and opels to fly out and bomb the marketplace, as Ford and GM saw fit. We'll never really know the history of our own industrialists, because they re-wrote history while they were at it.

    Today we live with the awe inspiring so-called benevolent propaganda efforts that flow from the Foundation that bears Ford's name. You may ask why problems never get fixed? It is the cancers of the industrialists foundations that never quite die, never quite have a solution and maintain the status quo, speed up the line and disable the citizen.

    , @Jus' Sayin'...
    Reality Check: Guess who owns (((COSTCO))), your exemplar of an American corporation that treats its employees right?
    , @Thomm

    Henry Ford CREATED a market which had not existed when he paid his employees $5.00 per day. The average wage of the day was around $1.25 per day.
     
    That is a leftist myth designed to promote Communism. Ford's employees were not a huge share of the US population at the time, so that is obviously not what 'created the market'.

    Plus, there was no income tax then. The same strategy today would see half taken by the taxman, and only the other half going to the worker.

    If you like the example you cite by Henry Ford, then you should be enthusiastically in favor of cushy government jobs for blacks, where a black woman is given $250K/year for being a 'Diversity Director'. This is exactly the same thing that you are praising Henry Ford for. The black woman can now buy lots of stuff!

    News flash : Communism does not work. Make-work jobs are stupid.

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  19. high-tech workers

    A euphemism for code-writing and some processor design. I doubt India is a player as labor supplier in aerospace industry, as an example. I have a very good acquaintance, M.S. in Physics from MFTI (Moscow), Ph.D in computer science–not a spring chicken. Retired now. Prior to retirement, while working years in Microsoft and being contracted by numerous organizations his first phrase on interviews (some lasting several hours–problems solution etc.) was and I quote: “My degrees are NOT from India’s Universities”. Usually hiring people nodded in agreement with a smile. He, sure as hell, doesn’t look like Indian too.

    Read More
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  20. peterike says:

    H-1Bs are not preferred because they cost less — they basically don’t — but because they can be worked more. Indians in cube farm coding plantations don’t complain when made to work long hours and weekends. They don’t rock the boat.

    And of course much of it is simple ethnic nepotism. Once an Indian takes over management of a group, that group will NEVER again hire a white person. It will be Indians only from then on. Though of course hiring only Indians is, somehow, not “discrimination.”

    Read More
    • Replies: @Thomm

    Once an Indian takes over management of a group, that group will NEVER again hire a white person.
     
    That does not appear to be true. Microsoft, Google, Citi, MasterCard, Adobe, etc. all have or had Indian CEOs, and obviously there are still a lot of white people still being hired there. This therefore disproves your point.

    Then again, easily checkable facts and basic logic have never stopped Peterike from saying ignorant things to remind us that he is stupid even by WN standards.
    , @Thomm
    Not to mention Pepsico, which has had an Indian female CEO for almost 20 years. According to Peterike, they have since stopped hiring whites.

    This is obviously not true. Even more obvious is that Peterike is a White Trashionalist with a Negro IQ.
    , @Malla
    India is a multicultural hellhole and nepotism is the only way to survive. In the past, people of different castes could not even eat each other and did not in general mix with each other. Though not possible in big companies, in small companies, if the owner or manager is a south Indian Tamil, it is true, he would hire only Tamils, if the manager is Gujrati he will hire only Gujratis. You are right about that. Besides, Indians have been sold some crap from childhood that we are the most smartest race in the world with the oldest civilisation which is obviously rubbish. Most Indians believe it and think Whites, Middle Easterners, East Asians, blacks are low IQ untermensh. This belief is all pervasive but not based on facts at all.

    Besides cheating, swindling and ripping off is so common in India that people tend to be very suspicious of the other, the outsider. Living in India for a day is like surviving a barrage of rip off attempts. That is one reason why Indians are clannish/survivalists. That is what you get with multiculturalism/multiracialism.
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  21. H1-B is the Make India Great Again (MIGA) visa. Trump promised to end the abuse using this visa, and he has done absolutely nothing on it. This past April 85,000 new visas were granted. Next April I’m sure yet another 85,000 will be granted. The Indian outsourcers like Infosys, TCS, Wipro are robbing us blind by taking over IT projects in every US company, firing all the US workers and staffing them with cheap labor imported straight from India, all graduates of low quality Indian colleges with fraudulent degrees and credentials.

    By his own admission, the CEO of Infosys once complained that only 25% of Indian “engineering” college grads are employable. And even for those who are employable, they still need to go through 6 months of intensive training before they can be deployed. They bring these under qualified Indians in and pay them 1/2 to 1/3 what a US worker gets paid. You walk into an Infosys office and the whole place smells like curry, they even import their own cafeteria workers! A few token whites get employed as receptionists, admin staff, HR, legal, and account managers, 90% of the IT staff are Indian. Meanwhile over 50% of US college grads are employed in jobs that do not even require a college degree, why aren’t we making them hiring these US grads and training them instead?! Coz we’re stupid? Yes. The DC swamp is entirely bought off by the tech plantation owners who want their cheap and subservient labor.

    This abuse has got to stop. This visa should only be for top foreign graduates of US universities, limit them to no more than 10,000 per year, and up the fee from the paltry $2,500 per visa to $100,000 per visa! The big 5 — Microsoft, Amazon, Apple, Facebook and Google combined do not use more than 1,000 of these visas each year. The top 10 users of this visa are all outsourcing firms, 7 Indian, 3 US in name only – IBM, Accenture and Deloitte. We need to clamp down on this abuse and make these outsourcing firms hire US grads.

    Also, the Optional Practical Training(OPT) program started by Bush and extended by Obama to 3 years must be shut down. This retarded program actually gives US employers tax incentives to hire foreign grads ahead of US grads, in any major.

    We’ve been taking in at least 3 million new people a year since 1990 – 1 million new green card holders, 1 million here on temporary work visas like H1b, H2b and their dependents, and at least 1 million illegals. When will this madness end? Trump can forget 2020 if he doesn’t drastically cut down the H1b visas.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Thomm

    We’ve been taking in at least 3 million new people a year since 1990 – 1 million new green card holders, 1 million here on temporary work visas like H1b, H2b and their dependents, and at least 1 million illegals.
     
    3 million a year x 27 years is 81 million people. There are not 81 million foreign-born people in the US at present.

    WN retards can't do math, but everyone already knew that.
    , @Thomm

    Trump can forget 2020 if he doesn’t drastically cut down the H1b visas.
     
    That is not the issue that Trump voters care about. They care about halting illegal immigration, and Muslim immigration.

    H1-Bs don't affect enough people in swing states. The WN wigger vote is ultimately small, and normal people never thought Trump was a racist (and most GOP voters don't demand that he be one).

    Nationalist-Leftists like you would be a better fit with Bernie Sanders. But even that does not change the fact that the WN Wigger vote is not valuable to any politician at the national level.
    , @Malla
    Very few Indians are into high IQ hard core coding, thus companies like Microsoft, Google need few Indians. Most of my software friends in India have not written a line of code in their lives.

    This is the scam. Say to do a certain task, an American employee would charge say $1000 a month (for example). In comes one of the big Indian company like TCS or Infosys. They will tell their client that they can do the job in $600 and thus the client saves $400 per employee. The Indian company will claim to the client that it pays the Indian employee $ 500 but in reality would pay $200 and pocket the rest of the money. This is done for all the employees in the project. But since $200 is good money in India the Indian employee is happy, the stupid American client company is happy (but ripped off), the Indian outsourcing company is VERY happy, the American employee is fucked. The Indian outsourcing company is even happier if the dollar value climbs against the Indian rupee so on conversion they get more profits in rupees to be paid to the share holders at home.
    That is all there is to it. I have friends who are top managers in companies like Infosys and TCS and they explained to me this simple scam.
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  22. @anarchyst
    Henry Ford CREATED a market which had not existed when he paid his employees $5.00 per day. The average wage of the day was around $1.25 per day. Of course, the wall street types and the banksters howled that Ford’s wage rates would destroy capitalism. Guess what?? The OPPOSITE happened. Henry Ford knew one of the basic tenets of a truly free, capitalistic society, that a well-paid work force would be able to participate and contribute to a strong economy, unlike what is taught in business schools today–that wages must be kept to a bare minimum and that the stockholder is king. Our “free trade” politicians have assisted the greedy wall street types and banksters in depressing wages on the promise of cheap foreign labor and products. A good example of this is the negative criticism that Costco receives for paying its employees well above market wages. These same wall street types praise Wal-Mart for paying its employees barely subsistence wages while assisting them in filling out their "public assistance" (welfare) forms. Any sane person KNOWS that in order for capitalism to work, employees need to make an adequate wage. Unfortunately, this premise does not exist in today’s business climate.
    Henry Ford openly criticized those of the “tribe” for manipulating wall street and banksters to their own advantage, and was roundly (and unjustly) criticized for pointing out the TRUTH. Catholic priest, Father Coughlin did the same thing and was punished by the Catholic church, despite his popularity and exposing the TRUTH of the American economy and the outsider internationalists that ran it . . . and STILL run it.
    Our “race to the bottom” will not be without consequences. A great “realignment is necessary (and is coming) . .

    That’s because Henry Ford was not a Jew. Wall Street is run by Jews, and now so are most tech firms in the US, even those not started by Jews are run by Jews, including all the venture capitalists – the new vampire squids of the tech industry. They want the cheapest labor possible to maximize immediate profit. Jews are greedy and short sighted, that’s why they destroy every society they live in.

    Read More
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  23. Thomm says:
    @peterike
    H-1Bs are not preferred because they cost less -- they basically don't -- but because they can be worked more. Indians in cube farm coding plantations don't complain when made to work long hours and weekends. They don't rock the boat.

    And of course much of it is simple ethnic nepotism. Once an Indian takes over management of a group, that group will NEVER again hire a white person. It will be Indians only from then on. Though of course hiring only Indians is, somehow, not "discrimination."

    Once an Indian takes over management of a group, that group will NEVER again hire a white person.

    That does not appear to be true. Microsoft, Google, Citi, MasterCard, Adobe, etc. all have or had Indian CEOs, and obviously there are still a lot of white people still being hired there. This therefore disproves your point.

    Then again, easily checkable facts and basic logic have never stopped Peterike from saying ignorant things to remind us that he is stupid even by WN standards.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jus' Sayin'...
    My personal experience over more than a quarter century working in multiple firms and government agencies at the middle of the IT career ladder - programmer in multiple languages on multiple OSs, some software engineering, statistical programming, GIS - is that mid-level and low level Indian managers do favor fellow nationals for hiring and promotion,, often to a shocking degree, approaching nepotism. Indians also cover for one another, hiding mutual incompetence and screw-ups. IT friends have confirmed my impressions.

    I've not worked with as many immigrant IT workers from China. The ones I have worked with are at least as competent as their White, native-born counterparts. They are also not boot-licking backstabbers like most of the Indian IT workers I've known. They don't seem to practice ethno-favoritism. My one complaint is that they tend to panic and cover-up mistakes rather than forthrightly deal with them. I suspect that this may be a consequence of growing up in a totalitarian/authoritarian society
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  24. Thomm says:
    @Another Realist
    H1-B is the Make India Great Again (MIGA) visa. Trump promised to end the abuse using this visa, and he has done absolutely nothing on it. This past April 85,000 new visas were granted. Next April I'm sure yet another 85,000 will be granted. The Indian outsourcers like Infosys, TCS, Wipro are robbing us blind by taking over IT projects in every US company, firing all the US workers and staffing them with cheap labor imported straight from India, all graduates of low quality Indian colleges with fraudulent degrees and credentials.

    By his own admission, the CEO of Infosys once complained that only 25% of Indian "engineering" college grads are employable. And even for those who are employable, they still need to go through 6 months of intensive training before they can be deployed. They bring these under qualified Indians in and pay them 1/2 to 1/3 what a US worker gets paid. You walk into an Infosys office and the whole place smells like curry, they even import their own cafeteria workers! A few token whites get employed as receptionists, admin staff, HR, legal, and account managers, 90% of the IT staff are Indian. Meanwhile over 50% of US college grads are employed in jobs that do not even require a college degree, why aren't we making them hiring these US grads and training them instead?! Coz we're stupid? Yes. The DC swamp is entirely bought off by the tech plantation owners who want their cheap and subservient labor.

    This abuse has got to stop. This visa should only be for top foreign graduates of US universities, limit them to no more than 10,000 per year, and up the fee from the paltry $2,500 per visa to $100,000 per visa! The big 5 -- Microsoft, Amazon, Apple, Facebook and Google combined do not use more than 1,000 of these visas each year. The top 10 users of this visa are all outsourcing firms, 7 Indian, 3 US in name only - IBM, Accenture and Deloitte. We need to clamp down on this abuse and make these outsourcing firms hire US grads.

    Also, the Optional Practical Training(OPT) program started by Bush and extended by Obama to 3 years must be shut down. This retarded program actually gives US employers tax incentives to hire foreign grads ahead of US grads, in any major.

    We've been taking in at least 3 million new people a year since 1990 - 1 million new green card holders, 1 million here on temporary work visas like H1b, H2b and their dependents, and at least 1 million illegals. When will this madness end? Trump can forget 2020 if he doesn't drastically cut down the H1b visas.

    We’ve been taking in at least 3 million new people a year since 1990 – 1 million new green card holders, 1 million here on temporary work visas like H1b, H2b and their dependents, and at least 1 million illegals.

    3 million a year x 27 years is 81 million people. There are not 81 million foreign-born people in the US at present.

    WN retards can’t do math, but everyone already knew that.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jus' Sayin'...
    And Thomm doesn't understand the mathematics of stocks and flows. But this doesn't surprise me. BTW, I cannot speak to the accuracy of Another Realist's data.
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  25. Thomm says:
    @peterike
    H-1Bs are not preferred because they cost less -- they basically don't -- but because they can be worked more. Indians in cube farm coding plantations don't complain when made to work long hours and weekends. They don't rock the boat.

    And of course much of it is simple ethnic nepotism. Once an Indian takes over management of a group, that group will NEVER again hire a white person. It will be Indians only from then on. Though of course hiring only Indians is, somehow, not "discrimination."

    Not to mention Pepsico, which has had an Indian female CEO for almost 20 years. According to Peterike, they have since stopped hiring whites.

    This is obviously not true. Even more obvious is that Peterike is a White Trashionalist with a Negro IQ.

    Read More
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  26. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @anarchyst
    Henry Ford CREATED a market which had not existed when he paid his employees $5.00 per day. The average wage of the day was around $1.25 per day. Of course, the wall street types and the banksters howled that Ford’s wage rates would destroy capitalism. Guess what?? The OPPOSITE happened. Henry Ford knew one of the basic tenets of a truly free, capitalistic society, that a well-paid work force would be able to participate and contribute to a strong economy, unlike what is taught in business schools today–that wages must be kept to a bare minimum and that the stockholder is king. Our “free trade” politicians have assisted the greedy wall street types and banksters in depressing wages on the promise of cheap foreign labor and products. A good example of this is the negative criticism that Costco receives for paying its employees well above market wages. These same wall street types praise Wal-Mart for paying its employees barely subsistence wages while assisting them in filling out their "public assistance" (welfare) forms. Any sane person KNOWS that in order for capitalism to work, employees need to make an adequate wage. Unfortunately, this premise does not exist in today’s business climate.
    Henry Ford openly criticized those of the “tribe” for manipulating wall street and banksters to their own advantage, and was roundly (and unjustly) criticized for pointing out the TRUTH. Catholic priest, Father Coughlin did the same thing and was punished by the Catholic church, despite his popularity and exposing the TRUTH of the American economy and the outsider internationalists that ran it . . . and STILL run it.
    Our “race to the bottom” will not be without consequences. A great “realignment is necessary (and is coming) . .

    Ford was a monster, he hired gangsters to beat his help down, the help actually revolted to some degree. The legend of course, is that he paid ‘em enough for the factory’s output, full stop. Workers were dropping dead if they even made it to age 50 after a few decades of working in toxic manufacturing facilities. If it would have been cheaper to import Chinamen or move it to Mexico, it was already on the drawing board at Ford. Stuff that up your Mustang, American fools!

    Henry Ford had the access to buy off parts of the US Government, bankers were his friends. He sat down to dinner with the German Military during the formation of the Reich. He helped them wage war, then turned around and “helped himself again” by helping the US defeat said Nazis. Can’t do that without Wall Street. After the war, and out of the rubble, the factories were turned on once again in “the Fatherland” for the “falcons” and opels to fly out and bomb the marketplace, as Ford and GM saw fit. We’ll never really know the history of our own industrialists, because they re-wrote history while they were at it.

    Today we live with the awe inspiring so-called benevolent propaganda efforts that flow from the Foundation that bears Ford’s name. You may ask why problems never get fixed? It is the cancers of the industrialists foundations that never quite die, never quite have a solution and maintain the status quo, speed up the line and disable the citizen.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anarchyst
    You are either a union promoter or have communist leanings.
    Ford's own writings state that he wanted his workers to "enjoy the fruits of their labor" and actually helped create the modern-day middle class. Were there abuses? Absolutely yes, but they were few and far between compared to the other industrialists of the day. Unions WERE fronts for communism in those early days.
    As for doing business with Germany, so what? Before WW2 Germany was a European economic powerhouse. A lot of American companies did business with them, including IBM. Of course, the jewish boycott of German products may have put Ford in a bad light, at least as far as jews were concerned, but Ford KNEW of the nefarious practices of the jews and wrote about their excesses in his newspaper The Dearborn Independent as well as his other publication, The International Jew.
    You are correct about the Ford Foundation and most other "foundations" being hotbeds of leftist activity. Henry Ford is rolling in his grave over the leftist bent of his "foundation"...
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  27. @anarchyst
    Henry Ford CREATED a market which had not existed when he paid his employees $5.00 per day. The average wage of the day was around $1.25 per day. Of course, the wall street types and the banksters howled that Ford’s wage rates would destroy capitalism. Guess what?? The OPPOSITE happened. Henry Ford knew one of the basic tenets of a truly free, capitalistic society, that a well-paid work force would be able to participate and contribute to a strong economy, unlike what is taught in business schools today–that wages must be kept to a bare minimum and that the stockholder is king. Our “free trade” politicians have assisted the greedy wall street types and banksters in depressing wages on the promise of cheap foreign labor and products. A good example of this is the negative criticism that Costco receives for paying its employees well above market wages. These same wall street types praise Wal-Mart for paying its employees barely subsistence wages while assisting them in filling out their "public assistance" (welfare) forms. Any sane person KNOWS that in order for capitalism to work, employees need to make an adequate wage. Unfortunately, this premise does not exist in today’s business climate.
    Henry Ford openly criticized those of the “tribe” for manipulating wall street and banksters to their own advantage, and was roundly (and unjustly) criticized for pointing out the TRUTH. Catholic priest, Father Coughlin did the same thing and was punished by the Catholic church, despite his popularity and exposing the TRUTH of the American economy and the outsider internationalists that ran it . . . and STILL run it.
    Our “race to the bottom” will not be without consequences. A great “realignment is necessary (and is coming) . .

    Reality Check: Guess who owns (((COSTCO))), your exemplar of an American corporation that treats its employees right?

    Read More
    • Replies: @anarchyst
    ...pray tell, WHO owns Costco??
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  28. @Thomm

    Once an Indian takes over management of a group, that group will NEVER again hire a white person.
     
    That does not appear to be true. Microsoft, Google, Citi, MasterCard, Adobe, etc. all have or had Indian CEOs, and obviously there are still a lot of white people still being hired there. This therefore disproves your point.

    Then again, easily checkable facts and basic logic have never stopped Peterike from saying ignorant things to remind us that he is stupid even by WN standards.

    My personal experience over more than a quarter century working in multiple firms and government agencies at the middle of the IT career ladder – programmer in multiple languages on multiple OSs, some software engineering, statistical programming, GIS – is that mid-level and low level Indian managers do favor fellow nationals for hiring and promotion,, often to a shocking degree, approaching nepotism. Indians also cover for one another, hiding mutual incompetence and screw-ups. IT friends have confirmed my impressions.

    I’ve not worked with as many immigrant IT workers from China. The ones I have worked with are at least as competent as their White, native-born counterparts. They are also not boot-licking backstabbers like most of the Indian IT workers I’ve known. They don’t seem to practice ethno-favoritism. My one complaint is that they tend to panic and cover-up mistakes rather than forthrightly deal with them. I suspect that this may be a consequence of growing up in a totalitarian/authoritarian society

    Read More
    • Agree: Andrei Martyanov
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    It might just be my imagination, but I can't seem to hire a white engineer for the life of me regardless of his credentials because the Indian manager(who has influence in the decision-making) finds some flaw in it. Mysteriously it always ends up that we have to hire someone else who is ethnically Indian.

    Its quite irritating.
    , @Ron Unz

    mid-level and low level Indian managers do favor fellow nationals for hiring and promotion,, often to a shocking degree, approaching nepotism...I’ve not worked with as many immigrant IT workers from China. The ones I have worked with are at least as competent as their White, native-born counterparts...They don’t seem to practice ethno-favoritism.
     
    It's always seemed pretty obvious to me that South Asians tend to be vastly more ethnocentric than East Asians such as the Chinese, and earlier this year I pointed out some of the likely reasons:

    http://www.unz.com/article/chinas-financial-debt-everything-you-know-is-wrong/#comment-1924662

    Basically, almost everyone in China considers themselves Chinese, so ethnocentric behavior in such an environment would make as much sense as wings on a gopher. Meanwhile, India has always contained dozens or hundreds of different intermingled "ethnic groups," most of which regard each other with considerable hostility, a perfect breeding ground for ethnocentricism, cultural or otherwise.
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  29. @Thomm

    We’ve been taking in at least 3 million new people a year since 1990 – 1 million new green card holders, 1 million here on temporary work visas like H1b, H2b and their dependents, and at least 1 million illegals.
     
    3 million a year x 27 years is 81 million people. There are not 81 million foreign-born people in the US at present.

    WN retards can't do math, but everyone already knew that.

    And Thomm doesn’t understand the mathematics of stocks and flows. But this doesn’t surprise me. BTW, I cannot speak to the accuracy of Another Realist’s data.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Thomm
    False. He said that 3 million immigrants a year came in since 1990, and if you assume that very few left, that is 81 million.

    In reality, the number of foreign-born people in the US is about 43 million which includes even the pre-1990 people, so a little over half. The composition is undesirable (illegals, low-skilled, etc.), but the number is nowhere near 81 million + the pre-1990 arrivals.
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  30. Chuckie says:

    https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/soc.culture.asian.american/d8_XXWgmko4

    “this is a followup story on BayArea H1-B fraud case Keywords: H1B fraud. South Asian Indian American. Labor Abuse. Sex Slave. Teenage girls. Lakireddy Bali Reddy. Chanti Prattipati – John Kennedy – Saundra Brown Armstrong

    Source: Berkeley Landlord to Plead Guilty – Deal cut in sex, smuggling case Matthew Yi San Francisco Chronicle. March 3, 2001. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2001/03/03 /MNW114650.DTL

    Summary: Lakireddy Bali Reddy, a wealthy south asian indian american real estate businessman, 63, was arrested in January 2000 on charges that he falsifying H1-B immigration papers so he could import teenage girls from his home village in Velvadam, India for sex and to work at his restaurants. The case broke in November of 1999 when one of the girls, Chanti Prattipati, 17, was found dead after she and her sister suffered from carbon monoxide poisoning in one of Reddy’s apartments in Berkley. Prattipati’s sister and a roomate told authorities about Reddy. (note that Prattipati was pregnant when she died). Reddy and his two of his family members ( Jayaprakash Lakireddy,47 his brother from Oakland and Annapurna Lakireddy,46, Jayaprakash’s wife) who were charged for exploiting these teenage girls have plead guility in a deal they worked out with the federal prosecutor Asst. U.S. Attorney John Kennedy. The deal must be approved by U.S. District Court Judge Saundra Brown Armstrong. The deal does not include his sons, Vijay Kumar Lakireddy, 31 of Berkley and Prasad Lakireddy, 42, of Lafayette who have also been charged in this matter. All the defendents are free on bail.”

    Read More
    • Replies: @Thomm
    I'm not sure if that example matters for the H1-B debate, since he could have brought those girls over through other means too (like just overstaying a visitor visa). So this incident, while bad, does not make the point you think it is making.

    Plus, this was 17 years ago. Can't you find a more recent example, of perhaps a more heinous crime, like first-degree murder? Joran Van Der Sloot murdered white women as recently as 2005, so you should be all over criticizing Dutch people, since this was a more serious crime AND more recent.

    Lastly, since when are WN wiggers interested in the welfare of Indian teenage girls? Make up your mind!

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  31. Thomm says:
    @Another Realist
    H1-B is the Make India Great Again (MIGA) visa. Trump promised to end the abuse using this visa, and he has done absolutely nothing on it. This past April 85,000 new visas were granted. Next April I'm sure yet another 85,000 will be granted. The Indian outsourcers like Infosys, TCS, Wipro are robbing us blind by taking over IT projects in every US company, firing all the US workers and staffing them with cheap labor imported straight from India, all graduates of low quality Indian colleges with fraudulent degrees and credentials.

    By his own admission, the CEO of Infosys once complained that only 25% of Indian "engineering" college grads are employable. And even for those who are employable, they still need to go through 6 months of intensive training before they can be deployed. They bring these under qualified Indians in and pay them 1/2 to 1/3 what a US worker gets paid. You walk into an Infosys office and the whole place smells like curry, they even import their own cafeteria workers! A few token whites get employed as receptionists, admin staff, HR, legal, and account managers, 90% of the IT staff are Indian. Meanwhile over 50% of US college grads are employed in jobs that do not even require a college degree, why aren't we making them hiring these US grads and training them instead?! Coz we're stupid? Yes. The DC swamp is entirely bought off by the tech plantation owners who want their cheap and subservient labor.

    This abuse has got to stop. This visa should only be for top foreign graduates of US universities, limit them to no more than 10,000 per year, and up the fee from the paltry $2,500 per visa to $100,000 per visa! The big 5 -- Microsoft, Amazon, Apple, Facebook and Google combined do not use more than 1,000 of these visas each year. The top 10 users of this visa are all outsourcing firms, 7 Indian, 3 US in name only - IBM, Accenture and Deloitte. We need to clamp down on this abuse and make these outsourcing firms hire US grads.

    Also, the Optional Practical Training(OPT) program started by Bush and extended by Obama to 3 years must be shut down. This retarded program actually gives US employers tax incentives to hire foreign grads ahead of US grads, in any major.

    We've been taking in at least 3 million new people a year since 1990 - 1 million new green card holders, 1 million here on temporary work visas like H1b, H2b and their dependents, and at least 1 million illegals. When will this madness end? Trump can forget 2020 if he doesn't drastically cut down the H1b visas.

    Trump can forget 2020 if he doesn’t drastically cut down the H1b visas.

    That is not the issue that Trump voters care about. They care about halting illegal immigration, and Muslim immigration.

    H1-Bs don’t affect enough people in swing states. The WN wigger vote is ultimately small, and normal people never thought Trump was a racist (and most GOP voters don’t demand that he be one).

    Nationalist-Leftists like you would be a better fit with Bernie Sanders. But even that does not change the fact that the WN Wigger vote is not valuable to any politician at the national level.

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    • Replies: @Alden
    It's hard to figure you out. You hate White people which is a leftist thing. But you are not a socialist like most lefties, even Dianne Feinstein and Hildabeast.
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  32. anarchyst says:
    @Anonymous
    Ford was a monster, he hired gangsters to beat his help down, the help actually revolted to some degree. The legend of course, is that he paid 'em enough for the factory's output, full stop. Workers were dropping dead if they even made it to age 50 after a few decades of working in toxic manufacturing facilities. If it would have been cheaper to import Chinamen or move it to Mexico, it was already on the drawing board at Ford. Stuff that up your Mustang, American fools!

    Henry Ford had the access to buy off parts of the US Government, bankers were his friends. He sat down to dinner with the German Military during the formation of the Reich. He helped them wage war, then turned around and "helped himself again" by helping the US defeat said Nazis. Can't do that without Wall Street. After the war, and out of the rubble, the factories were turned on once again in "the Fatherland" for the "falcons" and opels to fly out and bomb the marketplace, as Ford and GM saw fit. We'll never really know the history of our own industrialists, because they re-wrote history while they were at it.

    Today we live with the awe inspiring so-called benevolent propaganda efforts that flow from the Foundation that bears Ford's name. You may ask why problems never get fixed? It is the cancers of the industrialists foundations that never quite die, never quite have a solution and maintain the status quo, speed up the line and disable the citizen.

    You are either a union promoter or have communist leanings.
    Ford’s own writings state that he wanted his workers to “enjoy the fruits of their labor” and actually helped create the modern-day middle class. Were there abuses? Absolutely yes, but they were few and far between compared to the other industrialists of the day. Unions WERE fronts for communism in those early days.
    As for doing business with Germany, so what? Before WW2 Germany was a European economic powerhouse. A lot of American companies did business with them, including IBM. Of course, the jewish boycott of German products may have put Ford in a bad light, at least as far as jews were concerned, but Ford KNEW of the nefarious practices of the jews and wrote about their excesses in his newspaper The Dearborn Independent as well as his other publication, The International Jew.
    You are correct about the Ford Foundation and most other “foundations” being hotbeds of leftist activity. Henry Ford is rolling in his grave over the leftist bent of his “foundation”…

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  33. anarchyst says:
    @Jus' Sayin'...
    Reality Check: Guess who owns (((COSTCO))), your exemplar of an American corporation that treats its employees right?

    …pray tell, WHO owns Costco??

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  34. Thomm says:
    @Jus' Sayin'...
    And Thomm doesn't understand the mathematics of stocks and flows. But this doesn't surprise me. BTW, I cannot speak to the accuracy of Another Realist's data.

    False. He said that 3 million immigrants a year came in since 1990, and if you assume that very few left, that is 81 million.

    In reality, the number of foreign-born people in the US is about 43 million which includes even the pre-1990 people, so a little over half. The composition is undesirable (illegals, low-skilled, etc.), but the number is nowhere near 81 million + the pre-1990 arrivals.

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    • Replies: @Jus' Sayin'...

    "...and if you assume that very few left,..."
     
    And why would one assume that?

    At least, I hope we can agree that there are far too many foreign-born in this country with an average set of capabilities that is far too low to expect that their descendants will ever assimilate in a good way.
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  35. Thomm says:
    @anarchyst
    Henry Ford CREATED a market which had not existed when he paid his employees $5.00 per day. The average wage of the day was around $1.25 per day. Of course, the wall street types and the banksters howled that Ford’s wage rates would destroy capitalism. Guess what?? The OPPOSITE happened. Henry Ford knew one of the basic tenets of a truly free, capitalistic society, that a well-paid work force would be able to participate and contribute to a strong economy, unlike what is taught in business schools today–that wages must be kept to a bare minimum and that the stockholder is king. Our “free trade” politicians have assisted the greedy wall street types and banksters in depressing wages on the promise of cheap foreign labor and products. A good example of this is the negative criticism that Costco receives for paying its employees well above market wages. These same wall street types praise Wal-Mart for paying its employees barely subsistence wages while assisting them in filling out their "public assistance" (welfare) forms. Any sane person KNOWS that in order for capitalism to work, employees need to make an adequate wage. Unfortunately, this premise does not exist in today’s business climate.
    Henry Ford openly criticized those of the “tribe” for manipulating wall street and banksters to their own advantage, and was roundly (and unjustly) criticized for pointing out the TRUTH. Catholic priest, Father Coughlin did the same thing and was punished by the Catholic church, despite his popularity and exposing the TRUTH of the American economy and the outsider internationalists that ran it . . . and STILL run it.
    Our “race to the bottom” will not be without consequences. A great “realignment is necessary (and is coming) . .

    Henry Ford CREATED a market which had not existed when he paid his employees $5.00 per day. The average wage of the day was around $1.25 per day.

    That is a leftist myth designed to promote Communism. Ford’s employees were not a huge share of the US population at the time, so that is obviously not what ‘created the market’.

    Plus, there was no income tax then. The same strategy today would see half taken by the taxman, and only the other half going to the worker.

    If you like the example you cite by Henry Ford, then you should be enthusiastically in favor of cushy government jobs for blacks, where a black woman is given $250K/year for being a ‘Diversity Director’. This is exactly the same thing that you are praising Henry Ford for. The black woman can now buy lots of stuff!

    News flash : Communism does not work. Make-work jobs are stupid.

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    • Replies: @anarchyst
    how did Henry Ford's wage create communism??
    , @KenH

    If you like the example you cite by Henry Ford, then you should be enthusiastically in favor of cushy government jobs for blacks, where a black woman is given $250K/year for being a ‘Diversity Director’.
     
    Bad analogy. The taxpayers are getting soaked to pay for the affirmative action black woman's 250K salary. When private enterprises give their employees large wage increases it's not at the expense of the taxpayers and they (the employees) have additional discretionary money to boost the local economy, so it's a win-win.

    If Indian libertarians had critical thinking skills they would understand that private enterprises who pay well tend to attract the best, most motivated employees which forces competitors to raise their wage scale to retain their best employees and attract more talent to stay competitive in the industry. This is how wages and salaries get bid up and created a strong middle class. But this process has been wrecked by mass immigration and the H1B visa scam since a massive oversupply of labor drives down wages.

    H1B Indians like you are driving wages down, so go back to India and start designing and building latrines so your people don't have to defecate all over the streets and farmland.
    , @Logan
    Ford was smart enough to recognize that turnover was his biggest expense. Not only the direct cost of training new people, but also the cost of the poor quality control associated with the new people.

    So he pretty much eliminated turnover by doubling what he had previously paid workers. Less than stellar workers were let go, and the best workers left other employment and gravitated to Ford. Turnover pretty much disappeared.

    Other employers, at least in the area, were forced to raise wages to avoid losing their good employees to Ford and being stuck with his castoffs.
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  36. Thomm says:
    @Chuckie
    https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/soc.culture.asian.american/d8_XXWgmko4

    "this is a followup story on BayArea H1-B fraud case Keywords: H1B fraud. South Asian Indian American. Labor Abuse. Sex Slave. Teenage girls. Lakireddy Bali Reddy. Chanti Prattipati - John Kennedy - Saundra Brown Armstrong

    Source: Berkeley Landlord to Plead Guilty - Deal cut in sex, smuggling case Matthew Yi San Francisco Chronicle. March 3, 2001. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2001/03/03 /MNW114650.DTL

    Summary: Lakireddy Bali Reddy, a wealthy south asian indian american real estate businessman, 63, was arrested in January 2000 on charges that he falsifying H1-B immigration papers so he could import teenage girls from his home village in Velvadam, India for sex and to work at his restaurants. The case broke in November of 1999 when one of the girls, Chanti Prattipati, 17, was found dead after she and her sister suffered from carbon monoxide poisoning in one of Reddy's apartments in Berkley. Prattipati's sister and a roomate told authorities about Reddy. (note that Prattipati was pregnant when she died). Reddy and his two of his family members ( Jayaprakash Lakireddy,47 his brother from Oakland and Annapurna Lakireddy,46, Jayaprakash's wife) who were charged for exploiting these teenage girls have plead guility in a deal they worked out with the federal prosecutor Asst. U.S. Attorney John Kennedy. The deal must be approved by U.S. District Court Judge Saundra Brown Armstrong. The deal does not include his sons, Vijay Kumar Lakireddy, 31 of Berkley and Prasad Lakireddy, 42, of Lafayette who have also been charged in this matter. All the defendents are free on bail."

    I’m not sure if that example matters for the H1-B debate, since he could have brought those girls over through other means too (like just overstaying a visitor visa). So this incident, while bad, does not make the point you think it is making.

    Plus, this was 17 years ago. Can’t you find a more recent example, of perhaps a more heinous crime, like first-degree murder? Joran Van Der Sloot murdered white women as recently as 2005, so you should be all over criticizing Dutch people, since this was a more serious crime AND more recent.

    Lastly, since when are WN wiggers interested in the welfare of Indian teenage girls? Make up your mind!

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  37. @Thomm
    False. He said that 3 million immigrants a year came in since 1990, and if you assume that very few left, that is 81 million.

    In reality, the number of foreign-born people in the US is about 43 million which includes even the pre-1990 people, so a little over half. The composition is undesirable (illegals, low-skilled, etc.), but the number is nowhere near 81 million + the pre-1990 arrivals.

    “…and if you assume that very few left,…”

    And why would one assume that?

    At least, I hope we can agree that there are far too many foreign-born in this country with an average set of capabilities that is far too low to expect that their descendants will ever assimilate in a good way.

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    • Replies: @Thomm

    And why would one assume that?
     
    Isn't the entire dispute against immigration that they are arriving but not leaving? This is the first time I have heard an anti-immigration person claim that a large portion of them were also returning to their original countries (thereby undermining his own argument in one stroke).

    If a large portion of the people arriving also leave in a few years, then they are not really immigrants and there shouldn't even be a problem. They are just temporary residents.

    Of course, this is not the case.
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  38. anarchyst says:
    @Thomm

    Henry Ford CREATED a market which had not existed when he paid his employees $5.00 per day. The average wage of the day was around $1.25 per day.
     
    That is a leftist myth designed to promote Communism. Ford's employees were not a huge share of the US population at the time, so that is obviously not what 'created the market'.

    Plus, there was no income tax then. The same strategy today would see half taken by the taxman, and only the other half going to the worker.

    If you like the example you cite by Henry Ford, then you should be enthusiastically in favor of cushy government jobs for blacks, where a black woman is given $250K/year for being a 'Diversity Director'. This is exactly the same thing that you are praising Henry Ford for. The black woman can now buy lots of stuff!

    News flash : Communism does not work. Make-work jobs are stupid.

    how did Henry Ford’s wage create communism??

    Read More
    • Replies: @Thomm
    Because it is exactly the same argument as the people today who demand a $15/hr minimum wage, even if the employee's output for the employer is far lower than that.

    It is socialism of the dumbest possible order. A business that pays more than the employee generates will quickly have a loss.
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  39. aandrews says:

    “For tech superstars are true believers in the borderless multicultural state. These arrogant CEOs and their minions are social-justice warriors, first; giants of industry, second.”

    True, that. Well said.

    “Don’t be evil.” Yeah, sure.

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  40. Thomm says:
    @Jus' Sayin'...

    "...and if you assume that very few left,..."
     
    And why would one assume that?

    At least, I hope we can agree that there are far too many foreign-born in this country with an average set of capabilities that is far too low to expect that their descendants will ever assimilate in a good way.

    And why would one assume that?

    Isn’t the entire dispute against immigration that they are arriving but not leaving? This is the first time I have heard an anti-immigration person claim that a large portion of them were also returning to their original countries (thereby undermining his own argument in one stroke).

    If a large portion of the people arriving also leave in a few years, then they are not really immigrants and there shouldn’t even be a problem. They are just temporary residents.

    Of course, this is not the case.

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  41. Thomm says:
    @anarchyst
    how did Henry Ford's wage create communism??

    Because it is exactly the same argument as the people today who demand a $15/hr minimum wage, even if the employee’s output for the employer is far lower than that.

    It is socialism of the dumbest possible order. A business that pays more than the employee generates will quickly have a loss.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Let's use our brains together. Basic accounting doesn't apply here as much as this feels comfortable. What conclusion can be drawn from the fact that some employers are making the $15/hr demand?

    Hypothetically speaking, imagine you are paid $40/hr (by me) to use your intuition and physical abilities to arrange a dozen or so boxes so you could reach your banana or highest potential.

    I wouldn't normally be expected to play you off your gifted contemporaries, create pseudo-intellectual justifications for austerity and punishment, use data mining and social media to both measure and coerce your perspectives, use contract and other law to codify a system of indentured modern day slavery replete with a sign that states "Work is Freedom" unless I knew you'd be able to at least survive-for-a-while. This is why our most important employers prefer $12 or $15 dollars per hour.

    , @anarchyst
    Ford paid his employees well in order to keep them. His employees did not come up to him and demand $5.00 per day...unlike today's unemployed "fast food workers" who are making demands for $15.00 per hour on their prospective employers...big difference...
    , @Alden
    Fast food is a very, very profitable business. Ever managed one and counted the receipts at the end of your shift? It's like $50,000 to $60,000 per shift.

    So not counting the manager, if 9 $15.00 per hour cooks and clerks per shift can generate $50,000 in their 8 hour shifts it seems that those 9 clerks and cooks generated a huge sum compared to their wages.

    9 clerks and cooks get paid $15.00 per hour. The 9 working an 8 hour shift get paid a total of
    $1,080. They made $50,000 for the franchise owner in those 8 hours. Those wages aren't the only expenses of course, but those mexican indian illegals are probably the most productive workers in America.

    What other group of 9 people make that much for their employer in one 8 hour shift.

    That's why it costs millions to buy a fast food franchise.
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  42. Chuckie says:
    @Anonymous

    Indian documentation is so untrustworthy that an Indian fellow in Berkeley CA was able to import teenage sex slaves as H1Bs
     
    Haha. Do you have a link?

    See link at comment 30.

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  43. JackOH says:
    @edNels
    Pretty good article by Mercer that hits the mark on what I care about.

    Comment by JackOH is to the point too.

    this cut in particular: […

    our business elites are okay with wage and salary cuts of maybe 40%-70% through outsourcing, H1-Bs, off-shoring, union-busting
     
    ,]
    from:

    It’s important to understand by how much American workers are getting whacked. What I’m seeing from my limited perspective is that our business elites are okay with wage and salary cuts of maybe 40%-70% through outsourcing, H1-Bs, off-shoring, union-busting, and so on. They have no concern about quality of work and quality of product, and absolutely none about civic comity. They are perfectly okay with privatizing profits, selling inferior products whose cost of defects are absorbed by the consumer, and socializing the expenses of the turmoil they cause
     
    .

    Ok with that in mind, let me wonder, what % of these so called business (elites, or not so elite,) just what_ % of heads of business today ever spent any time in the working world? Or (on the line?)

    The days of self made Entrepreneurs to the side, today it's more like something a lot less Boot straps and more legacy-entitlement based. Upward mobility is a useful myth.

    But there continues a self righteous call for unrestricted freedom for... call it, Gresham's law: Bad money replaces good money. Case in point, China imported ersatz crap: look out below if you thought you ever heard of built in obsolescence too. Widgets made of potmetal, and poison dog food! (the country is now being permeated with defective replacement parts, which may be a sleeper disaster to come soon.) That's another digression off this.

    […

    how much American workers are getting whacked
     
    .

    So, following that trend and in that vain, be it resolved: To give incentive to H1-Bs to proceed immediately to Go…. Go to the Airport and Go, Take their asses back to their Cesspools of origins, but make it obligatory to pay taxes first and take all family members with them, otherwise, it wouldn't work. The Hyenas would go back with loot
    and start new ones, (automatic!)

    Americans alas were too nice, like the sheep they became.

    What we need is a Million Geek March on Washington next spring. Or call it a Million Manager March, or Million Engineer March, or sumpin’.

    Simple, positive demands. Jobs for Americans (IOW, end visa programs). Jobs for breadwinners (IOW, end affirmative action) Maybe two or three more, but always framed positively.

    Uniform for the March? NASA engineer circa 1960s. Short-sleeved white shirt, narrow tie, shirt pocket protector, belt-mounted calculator case.

    Anyone got the chops to organize something like that?

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    • Replies: @edNels

    Uniform for the March? NASA engineer circa 1960s. Short-sleeved white shirt, narrow tie, shirt pocket protector, belt-mounted calculator case.
     
    Falling Down 1993 Michael Douglas. Fired and divorced defense engineer goes on rampage in LA! That was his outfit, good movie for pissed off out of work guys.
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  44. ziggurat says:

    This is a great article, but the main driver for H-1B (and immigration in general) is not ideology, but rather cheap labor. The ideology is made to fit the business need.

    Also, the H-1B workers are indeed indentured servants, which helps to make them cheaper. But as Ilana Mercer has correctly stated, the H-1B workers are still benefitting from being able to move to a more advanced country and get payed a decent wage, albeit much less than the market rate. We should not sympathize with them, as much as with U.S. citizens whose labor has either been devalued or thrown away in the case of many long-term unemployed.

    If the H-1B was confined to only immigrants from wealthy, developed nations, there would be far fewer H-1B workers and the wage savings would be much less, because these wealthier immigrants are less likely to want to leave their advanced countries and their families, for an equally advanced country and a job that underpays them.

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  45. edNels says:
    @JackOH
    What we need is a Million Geek March on Washington next spring. Or call it a Million Manager March, or Million Engineer March, or sumpin'.

    Simple, positive demands. Jobs for Americans (IOW, end visa programs). Jobs for breadwinners (IOW, end affirmative action) Maybe two or three more, but always framed positively.

    Uniform for the March? NASA engineer circa 1960s. Short-sleeved white shirt, narrow tie, shirt pocket protector, belt-mounted calculator case.

    Anyone got the chops to organize something like that?

    Uniform for the March? NASA engineer circa 1960s. Short-sleeved white shirt, narrow tie, shirt pocket protector, belt-mounted calculator case.

    Falling Down 1993 Michael Douglas. Fired and divorced defense engineer goes on rampage in LA! That was his outfit, good movie for pissed off out of work guys.

    Read More
    • Replies: @JackOH
    edNels, yep, I was thinking partly of Falling Down. Duvall to Douglas: "They lie to the fish".

    Ron, know anyone willing to put up some organizing money for a Million Nerd March next April or May in DC? Maybe use Occupy Wall Street or that pink hat thing as a template. Front page of Web site: "You got your engineering degree. You got your MBA. You have reading fluency in two foreign languages, speaking fluency in one. You make $19,000 a year. Join us this April. Tell Washington you mean business!"

    Anyone interested?
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  46. ziggurat says:

    Another horror story is the OPT program. The OPT stands for “Optional Practical Training” and serves as an internship for foreign students on an educational visa. The program was created with the idea that an internship is part of the educational experience.

    This program was not written into the law, but rather was created by executive order. It created by Bill Clinton and started off as a 6-month internship. Then Bush increased it to 3 years for STEM labor. In 2015, Obama announced plans to increase it to 6 years, but it is still as of now, 3 years for STEM labor.

    Also, colleges and universities can make their own determination as to what qualifies as STEM. https://normsaysno.wordpress.com/2017/11/17/the-schools-can-decide-the-definition-of-stem-for-opt/

    From this article: https://normsaysno.wordpress.com/2017/02/22/in-reforming-h-1b-dont-forget-opt/
    – “Last year there were more than 52,000 Chinese graduates on OPT alone. One in every six student-visa holders from China is, in fact, working, not studying, in the United States.”
    – “And according to the pro-F-1 organization IIE, the overall number is 147,000. Since the number of workers holding the H-1B visa is on the order of several hundred thousand, it is clear that OPT is a major issue.”

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  47. Realist says:

    “Look deeper before maligning the Profit Motive, as the Left wants you to do. Power, more than profits, is what animates high-tech. Just imagine the thrill of seeing your idea of virtue turned into policy that affects the greatest economy in the world.”

    Nothing means more to these greedy, money grubbers….than money. The power they have comes from their money, nothing else. Not a one of the billionaires would have any power without their money.

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  48. Realist says:
    @animalogic
    “Power, more than profits, is what animates high-tech.”
    I'm sure that power & virtue signaling are part of the equation -- however, I can't imagine profits are too far from the minds of Tech CEO's...

    “— however, I can’t imagine profits are too far from the minds of Tech CEO’s…”

    Without money these assholes have no power.

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  49. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    I have been working in the Mideast( Iraq, Afghanistan) for supposed US contractors on US government bases and sites for about 7 years.. Most of the hearts and mind hires( after committing suicide bombings) have been replaced with Dot Indians, Kosvoians and Bosnian.

    US wages for electrician are lower 120K for 84 hour work weeks with 3 16 day RNRs. Most of the US contractors are based out of the South so little or no Union influence on the wages. Some contractors do give one day off a week with resulting lower pay. Some also only have 2-16day RNRs . The Eastern Europe electricians are I think around 3400-4500 USD/month. The Indian helpers get around 480USD/month. The Indians at one US based contractor get 1-30 day RNRs. Most of the unskilled labor is from eastern Europe and India. Some Nepalese, Pakis not many.

    The wages and job opportunities are falling for US expats in this environment. Add in the AA’s who are for the most part untouchable; its getting to be very hard to be in this environment for a non veteran white male.

    The first year of your contract( excuse me agreement, employee at will) you must stay out of the US for 330 days in order to get the tax break. Brits can go home for I think 90 days and still receive the tax break.

    I am thankful I was able to support myself and family after the construction market for electricians withered up and died after 9/11 by working overseas under the LOGCAP program. It was designed to keep veterans employed and reduce the Military legacy costs as there is no draft for the armed forces and no benefits, pensions for the LOGCAP ers

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    • Replies: @Alden
    Are you IBEW???? Come to the San Francisco Bay Area. 55 Fillmore, San Francisco There is loads of work. And lots of overtime.

    Your biggest problem will be not jumping into the over $150,000 per year tax bracket. You can work about 40 weeks of the year and make 130k here.
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  50. JackOH says:
    @edNels

    Uniform for the March? NASA engineer circa 1960s. Short-sleeved white shirt, narrow tie, shirt pocket protector, belt-mounted calculator case.
     
    Falling Down 1993 Michael Douglas. Fired and divorced defense engineer goes on rampage in LA! That was his outfit, good movie for pissed off out of work guys.

    edNels, yep, I was thinking partly of Falling Down. Duvall to Douglas: “They lie to the fish”.

    Ron, know anyone willing to put up some organizing money for a Million Nerd March next April or May in DC? Maybe use Occupy Wall Street or that pink hat thing as a template. Front page of Web site: “You got your engineering degree. You got your MBA. You have reading fluency in two foreign languages, speaking fluency in one. You make $19,000 a year. Join us this April. Tell Washington you mean business!”

    Anyone interested?

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  51. KenH says:
    @Thomm

    Henry Ford CREATED a market which had not existed when he paid his employees $5.00 per day. The average wage of the day was around $1.25 per day.
     
    That is a leftist myth designed to promote Communism. Ford's employees were not a huge share of the US population at the time, so that is obviously not what 'created the market'.

    Plus, there was no income tax then. The same strategy today would see half taken by the taxman, and only the other half going to the worker.

    If you like the example you cite by Henry Ford, then you should be enthusiastically in favor of cushy government jobs for blacks, where a black woman is given $250K/year for being a 'Diversity Director'. This is exactly the same thing that you are praising Henry Ford for. The black woman can now buy lots of stuff!

    News flash : Communism does not work. Make-work jobs are stupid.

    If you like the example you cite by Henry Ford, then you should be enthusiastically in favor of cushy government jobs for blacks, where a black woman is given $250K/year for being a ‘Diversity Director’.

    Bad analogy. The taxpayers are getting soaked to pay for the affirmative action black woman’s 250K salary. When private enterprises give their employees large wage increases it’s not at the expense of the taxpayers and they (the employees) have additional discretionary money to boost the local economy, so it’s a win-win.

    If Indian libertarians had critical thinking skills they would understand that private enterprises who pay well tend to attract the best, most motivated employees which forces competitors to raise their wage scale to retain their best employees and attract more talent to stay competitive in the industry. This is how wages and salaries get bid up and created a strong middle class. But this process has been wrecked by mass immigration and the H1B visa scam since a massive oversupply of labor drives down wages.

    H1B Indians like you are driving wages down, so go back to India and start designing and building latrines so your people don’t have to defecate all over the streets and farmland.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Thomm

    When private enterprises give their employees large wage increases it’s not at the expense of the taxpayers and they (the employees) have additional discretionary money to boost the local economy, so it’s a win-win.
     
    You know exactly zero about economics. You make arguments identical to the $15/hr minimum wage morons. It is funny how readily you out yourself as a dumb socialist.

    But thanks for proving that Nationalists are always leftists, especially WN wiggers like you. WNs have Negro IQs.


    H1B Indians like you are driving wages down,
     
    I am a white guy born in America, as I have told you repeatedly. WN wiggers like you disgust me, that is why I like to remind you how respectable whites want nothing to do with you, and white women would rather die than be with you (although in your case, this is moot, since you are gay).

    But I do admire Asian-Americans in general and Indians in particular, since they are the highest-income group in America, bar none.

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  52. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Thomm
    Because it is exactly the same argument as the people today who demand a $15/hr minimum wage, even if the employee's output for the employer is far lower than that.

    It is socialism of the dumbest possible order. A business that pays more than the employee generates will quickly have a loss.

    Let’s use our brains together. Basic accounting doesn’t apply here as much as this feels comfortable. What conclusion can be drawn from the fact that some employers are making the $15/hr demand?

    Hypothetically speaking, imagine you are paid $40/hr (by me) to use your intuition and physical abilities to arrange a dozen or so boxes so you could reach your banana or highest potential.

    I wouldn’t normally be expected to play you off your gifted contemporaries, create pseudo-intellectual justifications for austerity and punishment, use data mining and social media to both measure and coerce your perspectives, use contract and other law to codify a system of indentured modern day slavery replete with a sign that states “Work is Freedom” unless I knew you’d be able to at least survive-for-a-while. This is why our most important employers prefer $12 or $15 dollars per hour.

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  53. anarchyst says:
    @Thomm
    Because it is exactly the same argument as the people today who demand a $15/hr minimum wage, even if the employee's output for the employer is far lower than that.

    It is socialism of the dumbest possible order. A business that pays more than the employee generates will quickly have a loss.

    Ford paid his employees well in order to keep them. His employees did not come up to him and demand $5.00 per day…unlike today’s unemployed “fast food workers” who are making demands for $15.00 per hour on their prospective employers…big difference…

    Read More
    • Replies: @Thomm

    Ford paid his employees well in order to keep them. His employees did not come up to him and demand $5.00 per day…unlike today’s unemployed “fast food workers” who are making demands for $15.00 per hour on their prospective employers…big difference…
     
    False. The two are the same thing. It is socialism, plain and simple.

    Unless Ford Employees were a large percentage of the entire population, this would not 'create a market' either.

    If this was sound economic policy, others would have done it in the past century.
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  54. Thomm says:
    @KenH

    If you like the example you cite by Henry Ford, then you should be enthusiastically in favor of cushy government jobs for blacks, where a black woman is given $250K/year for being a ‘Diversity Director’.
     
    Bad analogy. The taxpayers are getting soaked to pay for the affirmative action black woman's 250K salary. When private enterprises give their employees large wage increases it's not at the expense of the taxpayers and they (the employees) have additional discretionary money to boost the local economy, so it's a win-win.

    If Indian libertarians had critical thinking skills they would understand that private enterprises who pay well tend to attract the best, most motivated employees which forces competitors to raise their wage scale to retain their best employees and attract more talent to stay competitive in the industry. This is how wages and salaries get bid up and created a strong middle class. But this process has been wrecked by mass immigration and the H1B visa scam since a massive oversupply of labor drives down wages.

    H1B Indians like you are driving wages down, so go back to India and start designing and building latrines so your people don't have to defecate all over the streets and farmland.

    When private enterprises give their employees large wage increases it’s not at the expense of the taxpayers and they (the employees) have additional discretionary money to boost the local economy, so it’s a win-win.

    You know exactly zero about economics. You make arguments identical to the $15/hr minimum wage morons. It is funny how readily you out yourself as a dumb socialist.

    But thanks for proving that Nationalists are always leftists, especially WN wiggers like you. WNs have Negro IQs.

    H1B Indians like you are driving wages down,

    I am a white guy born in America, as I have told you repeatedly. WN wiggers like you disgust me, that is why I like to remind you how respectable whites want nothing to do with you, and white women would rather die than be with you (although in your case, this is moot, since you are gay).

    But I do admire Asian-Americans in general and Indians in particular, since they are the highest-income group in America, bar none.

    Read More
    • Replies: @KenH

    You make arguments identical to the $15/hr minimum wage morons. It is funny how readily you out yourself as a dumb socialist.
     
    Just like you out yourself as a lame brained Indian (or oriental or Jew) who thinks libertarian economic theory is the final word on everything. I wasn't referring to inflated wages for McDonald's and Starbucks workers in Seattle mandated by the city council, but for living wages in major industries like automotive, aerospace, industrial, etc., which are industries that helped create and grow the middle class. But you're too dense to understand that.

    Ford, Boeing, John Deere and similar enterprises paying their employees living wages and financially incentivizing their top employees to stay is not socialism and the fact that you think it is and the same as Starbucks paying $15/hr exposes your gross ignorance, stupidity and libertarian ideological rigidity.

    I am a white guy born in America,
     
    Oh yeah, from "great lakes area" which outs you as some airhead troll who knows nothing about America. You could just be a frustrated half breed. Since Jews are highly overrepresented in the libertarian movement and generally hate and loathe white nationalists there's an excellent chance you're one of them.

    But I do admire Asian-Americans in general and Indians in particular, since they are the highest-income group in America, bar none.
     
    If you were honest you would admit that these groups you so admire have benefitted from affirmative action policies far more than they've been harmed by them which has artificially boosted their group income levels which have won your love and admiration. Most companies hire orientals and Indians to help fulfill their affirmative action and minority preference hiring goals and to avoid having to hire too many subpar black and Latino candidates. They also qualify for race and gender based promotions once on the payroll.

    But if you are truly white (non-Jewish) and admire Indians as much as you say then you can still emigrate to India to build latrines and outhouses for their people and start an empire. This way they won't have to defecate on the city streets of Bombay in broad daylight. You'll have well over one billion Indians to admire 24/7/365. What's stopping you?
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  55. Thomm says:
    @anarchyst
    Ford paid his employees well in order to keep them. His employees did not come up to him and demand $5.00 per day...unlike today's unemployed "fast food workers" who are making demands for $15.00 per hour on their prospective employers...big difference...

    Ford paid his employees well in order to keep them. His employees did not come up to him and demand $5.00 per day…unlike today’s unemployed “fast food workers” who are making demands for $15.00 per hour on their prospective employers…big difference…

    False. The two are the same thing. It is socialism, plain and simple.

    Unless Ford Employees were a large percentage of the entire population, this would not ‘create a market’ either.

    If this was sound economic policy, others would have done it in the past century.

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  56. @Jus' Sayin'...
    My personal experience over more than a quarter century working in multiple firms and government agencies at the middle of the IT career ladder - programmer in multiple languages on multiple OSs, some software engineering, statistical programming, GIS - is that mid-level and low level Indian managers do favor fellow nationals for hiring and promotion,, often to a shocking degree, approaching nepotism. Indians also cover for one another, hiding mutual incompetence and screw-ups. IT friends have confirmed my impressions.

    I've not worked with as many immigrant IT workers from China. The ones I have worked with are at least as competent as their White, native-born counterparts. They are also not boot-licking backstabbers like most of the Indian IT workers I've known. They don't seem to practice ethno-favoritism. My one complaint is that they tend to panic and cover-up mistakes rather than forthrightly deal with them. I suspect that this may be a consequence of growing up in a totalitarian/authoritarian society

    It might just be my imagination, but I can’t seem to hire a white engineer for the life of me regardless of his credentials because the Indian manager(who has influence in the decision-making) finds some flaw in it. Mysteriously it always ends up that we have to hire someone else who is ethnically Indian.

    Its quite irritating.

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  57. Ron Unz says:
    @Jus' Sayin'...
    My personal experience over more than a quarter century working in multiple firms and government agencies at the middle of the IT career ladder - programmer in multiple languages on multiple OSs, some software engineering, statistical programming, GIS - is that mid-level and low level Indian managers do favor fellow nationals for hiring and promotion,, often to a shocking degree, approaching nepotism. Indians also cover for one another, hiding mutual incompetence and screw-ups. IT friends have confirmed my impressions.

    I've not worked with as many immigrant IT workers from China. The ones I have worked with are at least as competent as their White, native-born counterparts. They are also not boot-licking backstabbers like most of the Indian IT workers I've known. They don't seem to practice ethno-favoritism. My one complaint is that they tend to panic and cover-up mistakes rather than forthrightly deal with them. I suspect that this may be a consequence of growing up in a totalitarian/authoritarian society

    mid-level and low level Indian managers do favor fellow nationals for hiring and promotion,, often to a shocking degree, approaching nepotism…I’ve not worked with as many immigrant IT workers from China. The ones I have worked with are at least as competent as their White, native-born counterparts…They don’t seem to practice ethno-favoritism.

    It’s always seemed pretty obvious to me that South Asians tend to be vastly more ethnocentric than East Asians such as the Chinese, and earlier this year I pointed out some of the likely reasons:

    http://www.unz.com/article/chinas-financial-debt-everything-you-know-is-wrong/#comment-1924662

    Basically, almost everyone in China considers themselves Chinese, so ethnocentric behavior in such an environment would make as much sense as wings on a gopher. Meanwhile, India has always contained dozens or hundreds of different intermingled “ethnic groups,” most of which regard each other with considerable hostility, a perfect breeding ground for ethnocentricism, cultural or otherwise.

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    • Replies: @Thomm
    Hello Ron,

    I would love to see a deep-dive analysis from you about why Indians in the West are so successful. They are the highest-income group in the US, bar none, and this has been true for too long, across too large a community, to be simply dismissed as 'every Indian in the US is from the cognitive top 1% of Indian society'. This is clearly not true.

    https://cdn.static-economist.com/sites/default/files/20150523_SRC174.png

    The reason this is so fascinating is that while one can easily and correctly point out that the failure of blacks in Africa correlates to their dysfunction in the US even after an astronomical sum of resources has been poured into them, the same does not seem to apply to why India is poor, while Indians overseas are successful. Not just in the US either; they are near the top in the UK too, and in Singapore, have recently surged past the Chinese in household income. Furthermore, most of the richest Indians in the US are owners of hotel chains and gas stations , rather than white collar professionals, so the 'cognitive elite' dismissal is obviously not the whole story, since the richest are gritty entrepreneurs in low-tech sectors and don't have advanced STEM degrees.

    The many poor Indian infants adopted by white American parents (to virtue signal) also tend to perform at the white median, even if these infants were sourced from utter destitution in India. What gives?

    Lastly, the normal HBD arguments don't seem to apply either. Sri Lanka is the darkest/least caucasoid country in South Asia, but is the most prosperous. By contrast, Afghanistan and Pakistan are far more Caucasoid, but are the poorest. India is in between, and southern India is more prosperous than northern India. It seems that Caucasoid percentage has an inverse correlation to prosperity over here (or that Islam is a negative that supercedes genetics, which is likely).

    It would be great to see your take on this. You did yeoman work in proving that 2nd-Gen Hispanic crime rates are barely higher than whites, and that Hispanic Crime is a myth. A similar treatment of this fascinating subject would be a delight to read (Steve Sailer isn't quite up to the mark to take on this subject, and Anatoly Karlin is woefully out of his league).

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  58. Thomm says:

    Meanwhile, India has always contained dozens or hundreds of different intermingled “ethnic groups,” most of which regard each other with considerable hostility, a perfect breeding ground for ethnocentricism, cultural or otherwise.

    The problem is that if they do that in the US, they can’t find enough people of their micro-race. The phenomenon of hiring and promoting other Indians (if true) means they are now suddenly loyal to all Indians, not just the 1% or 2% that are of the same group as them.

    Not to mention the additional fact that 2nd-gen Indians (born in the West) seem to outmarry (usually whites) at considerable rates.

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  59. Thomm says:
    @Ron Unz

    mid-level and low level Indian managers do favor fellow nationals for hiring and promotion,, often to a shocking degree, approaching nepotism...I’ve not worked with as many immigrant IT workers from China. The ones I have worked with are at least as competent as their White, native-born counterparts...They don’t seem to practice ethno-favoritism.
     
    It's always seemed pretty obvious to me that South Asians tend to be vastly more ethnocentric than East Asians such as the Chinese, and earlier this year I pointed out some of the likely reasons:

    http://www.unz.com/article/chinas-financial-debt-everything-you-know-is-wrong/#comment-1924662

    Basically, almost everyone in China considers themselves Chinese, so ethnocentric behavior in such an environment would make as much sense as wings on a gopher. Meanwhile, India has always contained dozens or hundreds of different intermingled "ethnic groups," most of which regard each other with considerable hostility, a perfect breeding ground for ethnocentricism, cultural or otherwise.

    Hello Ron,

    I would love to see a deep-dive analysis from you about why Indians in the West are so successful. They are the highest-income group in the US, bar none, and this has been true for too long, across too large a community, to be simply dismissed as ‘every Indian in the US is from the cognitive top 1% of Indian society’. This is clearly not true.

    The reason this is so fascinating is that while one can easily and correctly point out that the failure of blacks in Africa correlates to their dysfunction in the US even after an astronomical sum of resources has been poured into them, the same does not seem to apply to why India is poor, while Indians overseas are successful. Not just in the US either; they are near the top in the UK too, and in Singapore, have recently surged past the Chinese in household income. Furthermore, most of the richest Indians in the US are owners of hotel chains and gas stations , rather than white collar professionals, so the ‘cognitive elite’ dismissal is obviously not the whole story, since the richest are gritty entrepreneurs in low-tech sectors and don’t have advanced STEM degrees.

    The many poor Indian infants adopted by white American parents (to virtue signal) also tend to perform at the white median, even if these infants were sourced from utter destitution in India. What gives?

    Lastly, the normal HBD arguments don’t seem to apply either. Sri Lanka is the darkest/least caucasoid country in South Asia, but is the most prosperous. By contrast, Afghanistan and Pakistan are far more Caucasoid, but are the poorest. India is in between, and southern India is more prosperous than northern India. It seems that Caucasoid percentage has an inverse correlation to prosperity over here (or that Islam is a negative that supercedes genetics, which is likely).

    It would be great to see your take on this. You did yeoman work in proving that 2nd-Gen Hispanic crime rates are barely higher than whites, and that Hispanic Crime is a myth. A similar treatment of this fascinating subject would be a delight to read (Steve Sailer isn’t quite up to the mark to take on this subject, and Anatoly Karlin is woefully out of his league).

    Read More
    • Replies: @Malla
    "Lastly, the normal HBD arguments don’t seem to apply either. Sri Lanka is the darkest/least caucasoid country in South Asia, but is the most prosperous. By contrast, Afghanistan and Pakistan are far more Caucasoid, but are the poorest. India is in between, and southern India is more prosperous than northern India."

    Though you have directed the post towards Ron, I would like to chip in.

    It is not true at all that South Indian states have a higher per capita income than North Indian states. The lagging North Indian states are the cow belt states of Utter Pradesh and Bihar full of Hindu fundamentalists and their equally crazy muslim counterparts.

    If you check Indian states with GDP per capita,
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Indian_states_and_union_territories_by_GDP_per_capita

    the North Indian state of Haryana has a much higher per capita income than the highest scoring South Indian state Karnataka (Pondicherry is a small union territory). Besides the Western states of Maharastra and Gujrat (which can be considered a Northern State) also have higher per capita income than Karnataka.

    I believe religious fundamentalism plays a big role in development and wealth in South Asia. Places with high Hindu or Muslim religious fundamentalism tend to be screwed up. Examples of high Hindu religious fundamentalism are the cow belt states of Utter Pradesh and Bihar and Islamic fundamantalism, example is Pakistan. I also think that Buddhism plays a positive role in higher prosperity in Sri Lanka. Indeed from colonial times, European writes had written about the less gap between the rich and poor in Ceylon (Sri Lanka) than in India. Same with Christianity, for Goa which has a substantial Christian population, has the highest per capita income of all in India. It was also under European rule (Portuguese) for much longer. Even Sikkim state which has a big Buddhist population scores very high on per capita income scores very high on standard of living. My take is, more Christian or Buddhist the place is in South Asia, less the gap between the rich and poor and less tragedy of the commons. More Hindu or Islamic fundamentalist the place has, more fucked up the place is.
    Besides that, the per cpita income gap between India and Pakistan is very small.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita
    The difference is just $300. I would not consider war torn Afghanistan at all. It is idiotic to consider the Afghanistan of today for such comparisons.
    Pakistan used to have a higher per capita income than India in the past but thanks to rising Islamic fundamentalism is going down the drain.
    , @Malla
    I would say as an Indian myself, the success of Indians in the west has more to do with cunningness and nepotism rather than IQ. Not that high IQ Indians do not exist, of course we exist. Some of my best friends were high IQ Indians who went to Stanford and MIT but the large masses of Indians are low IQ and low productive populations.
    We Indians come from a survivalist culture and we are used to cunning, cheating, office politics and nepotism than most White people. Indeed many of the Indians friends consider Whites naive and childish in their trustfulness. We have this concept called 'jugaad' which means getting things done using contacts and verbal skills. But I think that the masses of Indians/South Asians tend to be low IQ, low productivity population. What has happened is most of high IQ Indians who form a small part of out billion plus population have already been absorbed by industry and the left over masses are low IQ populations and hence the Indians Industry is crying about the quality of workforce they are getting now. My Dad runs a manufacturing company, so does my uncle and I have been in both. Man, running a company with Indian labour is quite a task. Low IQ, laziness, not working unless told, ripping off, stealing, low productivity, being argumentative. It is hell. I have been to countries of the west and have lived for some years in the U.K. I would anyday take White British labour over Indian labour. British workers are much more smarter, more honest, more hardworking and one British worker would have the productivity of four Indians workers but British workers are just too expensive and most would not like to live here. Se we are stuck with crappy low IQ Indian workers.
    To explain what we face, I would like you to check this video.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ntosk72rQOw

    This Indian/Bangladeshi guy (basically a Bengali) talking about race. Listen from 1:02:05
    What he describes is very common when dealing with South Asian desi labour. What he describes we face all the time. And trust me, the educated management here is not much better than the labour.

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  60. Honestly, we should strip the developing world of its high-IQ population. Especially China. If we don’t steal them we’ll have to fight them eventually. Conduct screening with basic mass-administered tests, and a DNA test for known IQ alleles – and isolate the applicants it’s worth our time to pay attention to. Don’t pull the nation’s pants down for 92 IQ pajeets with associates degrees in computer programming. We want every 140IQ Brahmin, Han, etc. – we can lay our hands on.

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  61. Thomm says:

    We want every 140IQ Brahmin, Han, etc. – we can lay our hands on.

    I fully agree. This should be the immigration policy, period.

    If only we could similarly expel negros and WN wiggers too. Then we would be in business.

    One small correction – there was an analysis a couple of weeks ago about how IQ and caste in India don’t correlate. ‘Brahmins’ are not necessarily high IQ (or rich, since they tend to be clergy, monks, professors, etc. but not businessmen).

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    • Replies: @Alden
    You must be an ultra leftist liberal. It's obvious because of your hatred of Whites. I've noticed that you only come on this site to spout standard hatred of Whites and then disappear for a few months. This isn't a White Nationalist or conservative site.

    There are other sites that are more White Nationalist and conservative for your to post your hatred.
    , @Malla
    "there was an analysis a couple of weeks ago about how IQ and caste in India don’t correlate. ‘Brahmins’ are not necessarily high IQ (or rich, since they tend to be clergy, monks, professors, etc. but not businessmen)."

    I do not agree at all, caste does correlate with intelligence and success. I am upper caste Hindu myself but not Brahmin. But I can vouch for what I have seen in India that upper caste Hindus tend to have more intelligent people per 1000 persons than those from lower caste backgrounds. Indeed lower caste Hindus get Affirmative action in government hiring and colleges. It is called reservations. Indeed this is a big problem in India and upper caste Indians are angry about this. I do not claim high IQ people are absent in lower castes, there surely are many but as a percentage definitely less than upper caste Hindus. Dr. Babasaheb Ambedkar who fought for lower caste rights and wrote our constitution was lower caste and he was very intelligent.
    Brahmins are not the most richest. Obviously they are not. The richest will always be and are the merchant castes like the Bania, Gujju Marwari Sindhis. But these merchant castes are also part of the upper castes. Brahmins are not the only upper castes, the caste system is more complicated than that.
    Indeed the problem in India is that even with reservations in college admissions, lower caste Indians still cannot compete professionally on average with upper caste Indians.
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  62. Alden says:
    @Anon
    I have been working in the Mideast( Iraq, Afghanistan) for supposed US contractors on US government bases and sites for about 7 years.. Most of the hearts and mind hires( after committing suicide bombings) have been replaced with Dot Indians, Kosvoians and Bosnian.

    US wages for electrician are lower 120K for 84 hour work weeks with 3 16 day RNRs. Most of the US contractors are based out of the South so little or no Union influence on the wages. Some contractors do give one day off a week with resulting lower pay. Some also only have 2-16day RNRs . The Eastern Europe electricians are I think around 3400-4500 USD/month. The Indian helpers get around 480USD/month. The Indians at one US based contractor get 1-30 day RNRs. Most of the unskilled labor is from eastern Europe and India. Some Nepalese, Pakis not many.

    The wages and job opportunities are falling for US expats in this environment. Add in the AA's who are for the most part untouchable; its getting to be very hard to be in this environment for a non veteran white male.

    The first year of your contract( excuse me agreement, employee at will) you must stay out of the US for 330 days in order to get the tax break. Brits can go home for I think 90 days and still receive the tax break.

    I am thankful I was able to support myself and family after the construction market for electricians withered up and died after 9/11 by working overseas under the LOGCAP program. It was designed to keep veterans employed and reduce the Military legacy costs as there is no draft for the armed forces and no benefits, pensions for the LOGCAP ers

    Are you IBEW???? Come to the San Francisco Bay Area. 55 Fillmore, San Francisco There is loads of work. And lots of overtime.

    Your biggest problem will be not jumping into the over $150,000 per year tax bracket. You can work about 40 weeks of the year and make 130k here.

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    • Replies: @Thomm
    Alden,

    Serious question : The SF Bay Area is super-expensive, but mostly because local NIMBY councils obstruct any new construction, because they don't want their overpriced homes to decline in price. These homes WOULD decline in price if just a small increase in housing supply were allowed.

    Can't renters (who are getting screwed) and the construction industry (that is being denied billions in revenue) jointly sue these cities and their councils?

    SF is building two new skyscrapers. Given the prices and housing shortage, they should be building 20, not 2.

    What gives?
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  63. Alden says:
    @Thomm

    We want every 140IQ Brahmin, Han, etc. – we can lay our hands on.
     
    I fully agree. This should be the immigration policy, period.

    If only we could similarly expel negros and WN wiggers too. Then we would be in business.

    One small correction - there was an analysis a couple of weeks ago about how IQ and caste in India don't correlate. 'Brahmins' are not necessarily high IQ (or rich, since they tend to be clergy, monks, professors, etc. but not businessmen).

    You must be an ultra leftist liberal. It’s obvious because of your hatred of Whites. I’ve noticed that you only come on this site to spout standard hatred of Whites and then disappear for a few months. This isn’t a White Nationalist or conservative site.

    There are other sites that are more White Nationalist and conservative for your to post your hatred.

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    • Replies: @Thomm

    You must be an ultra leftist liberal.
     
    Shows how poor your reading comprehension is. I am libertarian. I say there should be free markets and no minimum wage. I am the most right-wing person here (everything that is not small government/free markets is left-wing).

    I was merely agreeing with Kristokirov's comment #60. Moron.

    You are a union member, so are obviously heavily invested in leftism.


    I’ve noticed that you only come on this site to spout standard hatred of Whites and then disappear for a few months.
     
    False again. I bash blacks too. I bash all groups that engage in Nationalism/Leftism.

    Get a clue, and learn to read.

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  64. Alden says:
    @Thomm

    Trump can forget 2020 if he doesn’t drastically cut down the H1b visas.
     
    That is not the issue that Trump voters care about. They care about halting illegal immigration, and Muslim immigration.

    H1-Bs don't affect enough people in swing states. The WN wigger vote is ultimately small, and normal people never thought Trump was a racist (and most GOP voters don't demand that he be one).

    Nationalist-Leftists like you would be a better fit with Bernie Sanders. But even that does not change the fact that the WN Wigger vote is not valuable to any politician at the national level.

    It’s hard to figure you out. You hate White people which is a leftist thing. But you are not a socialist like most lefties, even Dianne Feinstein and Hildabeast.

    Read More
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  65. Thomm says:
    @Alden
    Are you IBEW???? Come to the San Francisco Bay Area. 55 Fillmore, San Francisco There is loads of work. And lots of overtime.

    Your biggest problem will be not jumping into the over $150,000 per year tax bracket. You can work about 40 weeks of the year and make 130k here.

    Alden,

    Serious question : The SF Bay Area is super-expensive, but mostly because local NIMBY councils obstruct any new construction, because they don’t want their overpriced homes to decline in price. These homes WOULD decline in price if just a small increase in housing supply were allowed.

    Can’t renters (who are getting screwed) and the construction industry (that is being denied billions in revenue) jointly sue these cities and their councils?

    SF is building two new skyscrapers. Given the prices and housing shortage, they should be building 20, not 2.

    What gives?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Alden
    Why do you comment about things your know nothing about?

    Those environmental restrictions disappeared starting abut 1990 because of Chinese money and power. The Asians arrived in the Bay Area as soon as we pulled out of Vietnam. They brought millions. They would buy a couple very expensive houses in the best* neighborhoods and many suburbs. They would buy or set up businesses for cash. That is why housing is so expensive here. Immigration is another factor in the high cost of housing. Immigrants, especially Asian immigrants are happy to live 20 to 25 people in San Francisco's 1,000 sq ft row houses on top of a 1,000 sq ft garage. So even a houseful of indentured servant dishwashers can afford to pay the $6,500.00 a month rent.

    But an IBEW commercial industrial inside wireman seldom does residential work. They build convention centers, big hotels, the subway expansion, those numerous high rises and hang upside down under the bridges 14 hours a day. The subway is actually dug by a huge electric drill operated by electricians with specialized certifications.

    One thing that has benefitted, architects, E Engineers, E contractors and electricians is the environmental nonsense about lights that go on and off by themselves. All involved from architects engineers and electricians have to go to classes and get special certifications to do this. All the commercial industrial buildings must remodel their entire electrical systems for this or be fined and harasssed by the building code enforcers. It's very, very complicated, hence the specialized certifications. There is so much work for the electrical trade that a conspiracy theorist would think envoronmentalists save the world by installing those new systems crusade was a front group formed and funded by the electrical industry to create work.

    maybe the plumbers, contractors, tile and Moen, Kohler and American Standard bathroom fixtures were behind the transgender bathroom crusade so they could get more work remodeling and building more bathrooms in public buildings.

    So there is an enormous amount of commercial industrial infrastructure work for an IBEW electrician in the Bay Area. New housing, especially legoland condos and rowhouse complexes goes up all the time to accommodate the immigrants pouring in from Asia, the Phillipines and 50 miles south of San Francisco, India.

    So there is plenty of work. What other job can you get laid off on Tuesday after noon and go down to 55 Fillmore Wednesday morning, sign up, sit around chatting with your friends for 30 minutes and have a job to go to on Thursday?

    For your basic question, how can there be so much construction work with all the environmental restrictions against building, the answer is the environmental movement in California is now nothing but a front for:

    1 The unlimited immigration lobby

    2 Big condo and apartment developers

    3. Builders of light rail and subways.

    Gotta go take the kids and 2 dogs to meet a new dog and see if they will all be compatible.

    Catch me again if you want me to explain about the environmental lobbies and points 1, 2, and 3

    * Best neighborhood meaning no blacks within several miles. Or why the Phillipinos all went to Daly City and
    teh Chinese multimillionaries all went to Sea Cliff

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  66. Thomm says:
    @Alden
    You must be an ultra leftist liberal. It's obvious because of your hatred of Whites. I've noticed that you only come on this site to spout standard hatred of Whites and then disappear for a few months. This isn't a White Nationalist or conservative site.

    There are other sites that are more White Nationalist and conservative for your to post your hatred.

    You must be an ultra leftist liberal.

    Shows how poor your reading comprehension is. I am libertarian. I say there should be free markets and no minimum wage. I am the most right-wing person here (everything that is not small government/free markets is left-wing).

    I was merely agreeing with Kristokirov’s comment #60. Moron.

    You are a union member, so are obviously heavily invested in leftism.

    I’ve noticed that you only come on this site to spout standard hatred of Whites and then disappear for a few months.

    False again. I bash blacks too. I bash all groups that engage in Nationalism/Leftism.

    Get a clue, and learn to read.

    Read More
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  67. Alden says:
    @Thomm
    Because it is exactly the same argument as the people today who demand a $15/hr minimum wage, even if the employee's output for the employer is far lower than that.

    It is socialism of the dumbest possible order. A business that pays more than the employee generates will quickly have a loss.

    Fast food is a very, very profitable business. Ever managed one and counted the receipts at the end of your shift? It’s like $50,000 to $60,000 per shift.

    So not counting the manager, if 9 $15.00 per hour cooks and clerks per shift can generate $50,000 in their 8 hour shifts it seems that those 9 clerks and cooks generated a huge sum compared to their wages.

    9 clerks and cooks get paid $15.00 per hour. The 9 working an 8 hour shift get paid a total of
    $1,080. They made $50,000 for the franchise owner in those 8 hours. Those wages aren’t the only expenses of course, but those mexican indian illegals are probably the most productive workers in America.

    What other group of 9 people make that much for their employer in one 8 hour shift.

    That’s why it costs millions to buy a fast food franchise.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon
    Yes back in state getting my good guy letter. Have friends in San Fran and hear Vegas is going to be opening up. Thanks for the info. Take care
    , @Logan
    Sorry, but you're way off. Average McDonalds store grosses $2.5M/year or <$7,000/day.

    $50,000/day (much less per shift) would be over $18m/year. Assuming total day's take is 2x that of the busiest shift, annual sales would be over $35M.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/caroltice/2014/08/14/7-fast-food-restaurantchains-that-rake-in-2m-per-store/#41a81173ff82

    And McDonalds is in the top 7 highest revenue fast food chains.

    For the $50,000 per shift to be true, assuming a $7 average purchase, which is no doubt high, the staff would have to run over 7000 customers per shit or 900 per hour or 15 per minute through the line. That ain't happening.

    It is generally agreed that labor costs for fast food chains average 25% to 35% of sales, not the 2% or 3% you posit. IOW, you're off by a factor of 10, at least.
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  68. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Alden
    Fast food is a very, very profitable business. Ever managed one and counted the receipts at the end of your shift? It's like $50,000 to $60,000 per shift.

    So not counting the manager, if 9 $15.00 per hour cooks and clerks per shift can generate $50,000 in their 8 hour shifts it seems that those 9 clerks and cooks generated a huge sum compared to their wages.

    9 clerks and cooks get paid $15.00 per hour. The 9 working an 8 hour shift get paid a total of
    $1,080. They made $50,000 for the franchise owner in those 8 hours. Those wages aren't the only expenses of course, but those mexican indian illegals are probably the most productive workers in America.

    What other group of 9 people make that much for their employer in one 8 hour shift.

    That's why it costs millions to buy a fast food franchise.

    Yes back in state getting my good guy letter. Have friends in San Fran and hear Vegas is going to be opening up. Thanks for the info. Take care

    Read More
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  69. Logan says:
    @Thomm

    Henry Ford CREATED a market which had not existed when he paid his employees $5.00 per day. The average wage of the day was around $1.25 per day.
     
    That is a leftist myth designed to promote Communism. Ford's employees were not a huge share of the US population at the time, so that is obviously not what 'created the market'.

    Plus, there was no income tax then. The same strategy today would see half taken by the taxman, and only the other half going to the worker.

    If you like the example you cite by Henry Ford, then you should be enthusiastically in favor of cushy government jobs for blacks, where a black woman is given $250K/year for being a 'Diversity Director'. This is exactly the same thing that you are praising Henry Ford for. The black woman can now buy lots of stuff!

    News flash : Communism does not work. Make-work jobs are stupid.

    Ford was smart enough to recognize that turnover was his biggest expense. Not only the direct cost of training new people, but also the cost of the poor quality control associated with the new people.

    So he pretty much eliminated turnover by doubling what he had previously paid workers. Less than stellar workers were let go, and the best workers left other employment and gravitated to Ford. Turnover pretty much disappeared.

    Other employers, at least in the area, were forced to raise wages to avoid losing their good employees to Ford and being stuck with his castoffs.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Thomm

    Ford was smart enough to recognize that turnover was his biggest expense. Not only the direct cost of training new people, but also the cost of the poor quality control associated with the new people.
     
    Perhaps. But that is usually remedied with a 10% raise, not 300%.

    At least that argument is better than the 'he created a market' one.

    But if it was that straightforward, companies would still be doing it (including Ford Motor Co. of today, as well as Apple, Google, etc.).

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  70. Logan says:
    @Alden
    Fast food is a very, very profitable business. Ever managed one and counted the receipts at the end of your shift? It's like $50,000 to $60,000 per shift.

    So not counting the manager, if 9 $15.00 per hour cooks and clerks per shift can generate $50,000 in their 8 hour shifts it seems that those 9 clerks and cooks generated a huge sum compared to their wages.

    9 clerks and cooks get paid $15.00 per hour. The 9 working an 8 hour shift get paid a total of
    $1,080. They made $50,000 for the franchise owner in those 8 hours. Those wages aren't the only expenses of course, but those mexican indian illegals are probably the most productive workers in America.

    What other group of 9 people make that much for their employer in one 8 hour shift.

    That's why it costs millions to buy a fast food franchise.

    Sorry, but you’re way off. Average McDonalds store grosses $2.5M/year or <$7,000/day.

    $50,000/day (much less per shift) would be over $18m/year. Assuming total day's take is 2x that of the busiest shift, annual sales would be over $35M.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/caroltice/2014/08/14/7-fast-food-restaurantchains-that-rake-in-2m-per-store/#41a81173ff82

    And McDonalds is in the top 7 highest revenue fast food chains.

    For the $50,000 per shift to be true, assuming a $7 average purchase, which is no doubt high, the staff would have to run over 7000 customers per shit or 900 per hour or 15 per minute through the line. That ain't happening.

    It is generally agreed that labor costs for fast food chains average 25% to 35% of sales, not the 2% or 3% you posit. IOW, you're off by a factor of 10, at least.

    Read More
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  71. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Information technology is the field that everyone once claimed obliviated the need for something as archaic or corrupt as collective bargaining. What a ruse. As tech and Wall Street has laughed all the way to the bank over the death of the middle class for the past 30 years the conservatives suddenly realize there are benefits to taking care of the hired help. Undoubtedly they are just triangulating back over the top of their political competition to be “for the American worker”.

    This thread is a excellent cross section of well trained parrots (or ringers) who shout “communism” when provoked. The topper is the worker in one of empire’s forward operating bases who makes 6 figures completely tax free, boasts that he avoids the “unions”.

    Our Pentagon comrade reveals another inconvenient truth: obedient, nearly incoherent simpleton slaves with the proper politics are far more important to American employers that any other qualities. Intelligence, creativity, ingenuity and sometimes competency are typically a liability – especially with defense contractors who spend most of their time arguing the opposite.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon
    Anon,


    In my lifetime I have been a member of 3 Unions, IBEW, IAM and AFSCME. I have been a union Steward, and a rep to Local Labor council.

    The only contractor that is/was union in the Mid East that I know of was Inglet and Stubbs out of Atlanta. My comment was that there is little or no Union pressure on wages or working conditions on the LOGCAP program. All the contractors are out of the South and the pressure is to cut wages, RnRs and working conditions. One way to do that is get rid of the US and Brit expats.

    The job market for electricians in the North Chicagoland area withered and died after 9/11 and has never really come back. At the time there was 1200 journeyman construction electricians in my home local. There was maybe 300 working. Everybody else was losing their homes and families. There is only about 600 working now in the jurisdiction.
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  72. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Anonymous
    Information technology is the field that everyone once claimed obliviated the need for something as archaic or corrupt as collective bargaining. What a ruse. As tech and Wall Street has laughed all the way to the bank over the death of the middle class for the past 30 years the conservatives suddenly realize there are benefits to taking care of the hired help. Undoubtedly they are just triangulating back over the top of their political competition to be "for the American worker".

    This thread is a excellent cross section of well trained parrots (or ringers) who shout "communism" when provoked. The topper is the worker in one of empire's forward operating bases who makes 6 figures completely tax free, boasts that he avoids the "unions".

    Our Pentagon comrade reveals another inconvenient truth: obedient, nearly incoherent simpleton slaves with the proper politics are far more important to American employers that any other qualities. Intelligence, creativity, ingenuity and sometimes competency are typically a liability - especially with defense contractors who spend most of their time arguing the opposite.

    Anon,

    In my lifetime I have been a member of 3 Unions, IBEW, IAM and AFSCME. I have been a union Steward, and a rep to Local Labor council.

    The only contractor that is/was union in the Mid East that I know of was Inglet and Stubbs out of Atlanta. My comment was that there is little or no Union pressure on wages or working conditions on the LOGCAP program. All the contractors are out of the South and the pressure is to cut wages, RnRs and working conditions. One way to do that is get rid of the US and Brit expats.

    The job market for electricians in the North Chicagoland area withered and died after 9/11 and has never really come back. At the time there was 1200 journeyman construction electricians in my home local. There was maybe 300 working. Everybody else was losing their homes and families. There is only about 600 working now in the jurisdiction.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Alden
    So electrical work in the Mid East is done by on the job trained guys? I bet those countries have some kind of low, lower, lowest universal building code as well.

    For some reason there is nothing in Vegas for electricians. So there are a lot of travelers from there in the Bay Area and they all have work. Guys even come from Alaska. Be a traveler and come to the Bay Area and your brothers will welcome you. Rents are expensive, but put an ad on the bulletin board and maybe you can find a room to rent from a brother for less than $1,000 a month. There is an RV park somewhere in the city with hookups and everything. Lots of the travelers live in them.

    Actually, come after Christmas because all the conventions and trade shows are slowing down and people will be laid off from them starting the middle of December. If you do shows and have to travel between San Francisco and all over San Mateo and Santa Clara counties and to San Jose you get paid full wages for the travel time. Unions are good aren't they?

    The subway and light rail go pretty far out to the suburbs where rents are a lot cheaper.

    I doubt electrical work actually dried up north of Chicago. Probably the contractors just imported a bunch of illegal mexicans. Hope they get sued for the shoddy work and fire hazards.
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  73. Alden says:
    @Thomm
    Alden,

    Serious question : The SF Bay Area is super-expensive, but mostly because local NIMBY councils obstruct any new construction, because they don't want their overpriced homes to decline in price. These homes WOULD decline in price if just a small increase in housing supply were allowed.

    Can't renters (who are getting screwed) and the construction industry (that is being denied billions in revenue) jointly sue these cities and their councils?

    SF is building two new skyscrapers. Given the prices and housing shortage, they should be building 20, not 2.

    What gives?

    Why do you comment about things your know nothing about?

    Those environmental restrictions disappeared starting abut 1990 because of Chinese money and power. The Asians arrived in the Bay Area as soon as we pulled out of Vietnam. They brought millions. They would buy a couple very expensive houses in the best* neighborhoods and many suburbs. They would buy or set up businesses for cash. That is why housing is so expensive here. Immigration is another factor in the high cost of housing. Immigrants, especially Asian immigrants are happy to live 20 to 25 people in San Francisco’s 1,000 sq ft row houses on top of a 1,000 sq ft garage. So even a houseful of indentured servant dishwashers can afford to pay the $6,500.00 a month rent.

    But an IBEW commercial industrial inside wireman seldom does residential work. They build convention centers, big hotels, the subway expansion, those numerous high rises and hang upside down under the bridges 14 hours a day. The subway is actually dug by a huge electric drill operated by electricians with specialized certifications.

    One thing that has benefitted, architects, E Engineers, E contractors and electricians is the environmental nonsense about lights that go on and off by themselves. All involved from architects engineers and electricians have to go to classes and get special certifications to do this. All the commercial industrial buildings must remodel their entire electrical systems for this or be fined and harasssed by the building code enforcers. It’s very, very complicated, hence the specialized certifications. There is so much work for the electrical trade that a conspiracy theorist would think envoronmentalists save the world by installing those new systems crusade was a front group formed and funded by the electrical industry to create work.

    maybe the plumbers, contractors, tile and Moen, Kohler and American Standard bathroom fixtures were behind the transgender bathroom crusade so they could get more work remodeling and building more bathrooms in public buildings.

    So there is an enormous amount of commercial industrial infrastructure work for an IBEW electrician in the Bay Area. New housing, especially legoland condos and rowhouse complexes goes up all the time to accommodate the immigrants pouring in from Asia, the Phillipines and 50 miles south of San Francisco, India.

    So there is plenty of work. What other job can you get laid off on Tuesday after noon and go down to 55 Fillmore Wednesday morning, sign up, sit around chatting with your friends for 30 minutes and have a job to go to on Thursday?

    For your basic question, how can there be so much construction work with all the environmental restrictions against building, the answer is the environmental movement in California is now nothing but a front for:

    1 The unlimited immigration lobby

    2 Big condo and apartment developers

    3. Builders of light rail and subways.

    Gotta go take the kids and 2 dogs to meet a new dog and see if they will all be compatible.

    Catch me again if you want me to explain about the environmental lobbies and points 1, 2, and 3

    * Best neighborhood meaning no blacks within several miles. Or why the Phillipinos all went to Daly City and
    teh Chinese multimillionaries all went to Sea Cliff

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  74. KenH says:
    @Thomm

    When private enterprises give their employees large wage increases it’s not at the expense of the taxpayers and they (the employees) have additional discretionary money to boost the local economy, so it’s a win-win.
     
    You know exactly zero about economics. You make arguments identical to the $15/hr minimum wage morons. It is funny how readily you out yourself as a dumb socialist.

    But thanks for proving that Nationalists are always leftists, especially WN wiggers like you. WNs have Negro IQs.


    H1B Indians like you are driving wages down,
     
    I am a white guy born in America, as I have told you repeatedly. WN wiggers like you disgust me, that is why I like to remind you how respectable whites want nothing to do with you, and white women would rather die than be with you (although in your case, this is moot, since you are gay).

    But I do admire Asian-Americans in general and Indians in particular, since they are the highest-income group in America, bar none.

    You make arguments identical to the $15/hr minimum wage morons. It is funny how readily you out yourself as a dumb socialist.

    Just like you out yourself as a lame brained Indian (or oriental or Jew) who thinks libertarian economic theory is the final word on everything. I wasn’t referring to inflated wages for McDonald’s and Starbucks workers in Seattle mandated by the city council, but for living wages in major industries like automotive, aerospace, industrial, etc., which are industries that helped create and grow the middle class. But you’re too dense to understand that.

    Ford, Boeing, John Deere and similar enterprises paying their employees living wages and financially incentivizing their top employees to stay is not socialism and the fact that you think it is and the same as Starbucks paying $15/hr exposes your gross ignorance, stupidity and libertarian ideological rigidity.

    I am a white guy born in America,

    Oh yeah, from “great lakes area” which outs you as some airhead troll who knows nothing about America. You could just be a frustrated half breed. Since Jews are highly overrepresented in the libertarian movement and generally hate and loathe white nationalists there’s an excellent chance you’re one of them.

    But I do admire Asian-Americans in general and Indians in particular, since they are the highest-income group in America, bar none.

    If you were honest you would admit that these groups you so admire have benefitted from affirmative action policies far more than they’ve been harmed by them which has artificially boosted their group income levels which have won your love and admiration. Most companies hire orientals and Indians to help fulfill their affirmative action and minority preference hiring goals and to avoid having to hire too many subpar black and Latino candidates. They also qualify for race and gender based promotions once on the payroll.

    But if you are truly white (non-Jewish) and admire Indians as much as you say then you can still emigrate to India to build latrines and outhouses for their people and start an empire. This way they won’t have to defecate on the city streets of Bombay in broad daylight. You’ll have well over one billion Indians to admire 24/7/365. What’s stopping you?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Thomm

    But you’re too dense to understand that.
     
    Don't project your ignorance and leftism onto others. The US had high manufacturing wages from 1946-73 only because the US was the only country that could manufacture advanced goods and export them. There was no international competition from Japan, Germany, etc. The correction of this wage to the current levels is to be expected once the countries formerly devastated in WW2 fully catch up.

    You are hilariously ignorant, except that is to be expected from a WN Wigger (with your Negro IQ).


    Ford, Boeing, John Deere and similar enterprises paying their employees living wages and financially incentivizing their top employees
     
    Incentives are not the same thing as a socialist 'living wage' you stupid faggot.

    Silicon Valley pays stock options and RSUs to employees. They are more advanced in the idea of incentives than others.


    Oh yeah, from “great lakes area” which outs you as some airhead troll who knows nothing about America.
     
    err...it outs YOU as a Negro-IQ White Trashionalist who knows nothing about America. States on the Great Lakes call themselves that.

    Great Lakes Region :
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Lakes_region

    But it is good to see you are still butthurt about the fact that I remind you how successful whites diligently exclude waste matter like you from polite society. We know that the bottom 10% (that you represent) is just garbage that nature wants to weed out of the gene pool.

    Heh heh heh heh


    If you were honest you would admit that these groups you so admire have benefitted from affirmative action
     
    Asians don't get affirmative action, your retarded wigger. This has been discussed at length by many authors here at Unz. You are obviously illiterate if you haven't learned even that yet.

    But keep associating your White Trashionalism with socialism. I *want* more people to see howit is a leftist socialist ideology, favored only by WN wiggers and bluehaired feminists.

    Again.... heh heh heh heh

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  75. anarchyst says:

    Unions have had their time and place, and could prove useful, even now if they got into the health insurance market, utilizing their members across bargaining unit lines. Unfortunately, unions are not “forward thinking” and have still stuck to the old model of “shut up and pay your union dues”.
    Here is my take on “unions” . . . my own personal experiences with union membership…
    I was hired by a large company to perform maintenance and repair on highly sophisticated electrical and electronic systems. Within six months, my company was able to eliminate the use of “outside contractors” to maintain this equipment. My employer recognized my value to the company and decided to give me a substantial “raise”. All went well until my “union” (which I was FORCED to belong to in pre-right-to-work days) found out about it. The “union’s” position on my raise was that “if he gets a raise, everyone else in the “bargaining unit” must get a raise”. My raise was rescinded. Efforts by my company to establish another “job classification” within the “bargaining unit” were rebuffed by union leaders.
    Here I was, FORCED to belong to a union that is denying me the ability to get paid commensurately for my skills and effort.
    It took TWO YEARS and considerable effort to establish another job classification for me to get my raise.
    Unions promote mediocrity and stifle incentive.
    I can stand on my own two feet without having a “union” represent me.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Why not exercise exercise your right to work and get another job instead of suffering a two year prison sentence of on the job communism? If you can stand on your own two feet, why would you show up each day to work for (or depend on) someone else? You can do it, work for it, just like your boss did.

    Now your boss probably has no issue with his union. But unions confuse people because they don't really know what one is. (They don't know what a Democracy is either, they just believe in it when it is used to label a country that is anything but a Democracy - but that's another essay. ) What is a union? A police union is a union. A union that works closely with management and functions more or less as an adjunct to company HR is called a union. A powerful union that protects politically important workers is a form of reciprocity or a boon to business interests knowing said interests will be protected by these workers/public servants. Politically active unions have "actively" undermined efforts that are truly in the interest of workers, therefore a key asset to management.

    Thus, unions are far from dead, because they are useful, they aren't what they were necessarily, and they aren't all the same. Hamilton James wants you to believe in Democracy but not unions, which is not too far from what Newt Gingrich believes. The thing you need to ask yourself when you're done listening to Rush Limbaugh is whether workers in the United States are doing worse. The answer is generally yes.
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  76. Malla says:

    I do not understand why companies hire Indians when they hardly win programming contests.

    https://www.techworm.net/2016/10/top-10-countries-best-programmers-world.html

    Check out the IBM ACM contests, the Indian IIT which many Indians brag about never came in the top spots even and many a times could never solve any problems. Most of the winners are Eastern European and Chinese teams.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACM_International_Collegiate_Programming_Contest

    Most of the software programmers in India, hardly do high level coding jobs but some kind of support work.

    Indeed the Indian industry itself claims that a whooping 80% engineers in India are unemployable.

    https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/hyderabad/80-engineers-unemployable-as-they-lack-key-skills-report/articleshow/58141318.cms

    And this has become a major topic of discussion in India

    And finally an Indian in the USA finally admits the mass faking of resumes by Indians to fool Americans

    As well as Indian companies in the USA commit a lot of illegal activities

    Read More
    • Replies: @Malla
    I am sorry in my earlier post, the video is in Hindi but I was more interested in showing the title of the video

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3yVdvAUpos&feature=youtu.be

    "Most of our engineers have no knowledge, interest or skill in engineering"

    One of the panelist (the guy with the beard in green shirt) is Mr. Mohandas Pai, who was Member of the board of directors of Infosys, and Head – Administration, Education and Research, Financial, Human Resources, and Infosys Leadership Institute. He clearly claims that most Indian engineers are not competent at all and are clearly unemployable.

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  77. Malla says:
    @peterike
    H-1Bs are not preferred because they cost less -- they basically don't -- but because they can be worked more. Indians in cube farm coding plantations don't complain when made to work long hours and weekends. They don't rock the boat.

    And of course much of it is simple ethnic nepotism. Once an Indian takes over management of a group, that group will NEVER again hire a white person. It will be Indians only from then on. Though of course hiring only Indians is, somehow, not "discrimination."

    India is a multicultural hellhole and nepotism is the only way to survive. In the past, people of different castes could not even eat each other and did not in general mix with each other. Though not possible in big companies, in small companies, if the owner or manager is a south Indian Tamil, it is true, he would hire only Tamils, if the manager is Gujrati he will hire only Gujratis. You are right about that. Besides, Indians have been sold some crap from childhood that we are the most smartest race in the world with the oldest civilisation which is obviously rubbish. Most Indians believe it and think Whites, Middle Easterners, East Asians, blacks are low IQ untermensh. This belief is all pervasive but not based on facts at all.

    Besides cheating, swindling and ripping off is so common in India that people tend to be very suspicious of the other, the outsider. Living in India for a day is like surviving a barrage of rip off attempts. That is one reason why Indians are clannish/survivalists. That is what you get with multiculturalism/multiracialism.

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  78. Malla says:
    @Another Realist
    H1-B is the Make India Great Again (MIGA) visa. Trump promised to end the abuse using this visa, and he has done absolutely nothing on it. This past April 85,000 new visas were granted. Next April I'm sure yet another 85,000 will be granted. The Indian outsourcers like Infosys, TCS, Wipro are robbing us blind by taking over IT projects in every US company, firing all the US workers and staffing them with cheap labor imported straight from India, all graduates of low quality Indian colleges with fraudulent degrees and credentials.

    By his own admission, the CEO of Infosys once complained that only 25% of Indian "engineering" college grads are employable. And even for those who are employable, they still need to go through 6 months of intensive training before they can be deployed. They bring these under qualified Indians in and pay them 1/2 to 1/3 what a US worker gets paid. You walk into an Infosys office and the whole place smells like curry, they even import their own cafeteria workers! A few token whites get employed as receptionists, admin staff, HR, legal, and account managers, 90% of the IT staff are Indian. Meanwhile over 50% of US college grads are employed in jobs that do not even require a college degree, why aren't we making them hiring these US grads and training them instead?! Coz we're stupid? Yes. The DC swamp is entirely bought off by the tech plantation owners who want their cheap and subservient labor.

    This abuse has got to stop. This visa should only be for top foreign graduates of US universities, limit them to no more than 10,000 per year, and up the fee from the paltry $2,500 per visa to $100,000 per visa! The big 5 -- Microsoft, Amazon, Apple, Facebook and Google combined do not use more than 1,000 of these visas each year. The top 10 users of this visa are all outsourcing firms, 7 Indian, 3 US in name only - IBM, Accenture and Deloitte. We need to clamp down on this abuse and make these outsourcing firms hire US grads.

    Also, the Optional Practical Training(OPT) program started by Bush and extended by Obama to 3 years must be shut down. This retarded program actually gives US employers tax incentives to hire foreign grads ahead of US grads, in any major.

    We've been taking in at least 3 million new people a year since 1990 - 1 million new green card holders, 1 million here on temporary work visas like H1b, H2b and their dependents, and at least 1 million illegals. When will this madness end? Trump can forget 2020 if he doesn't drastically cut down the H1b visas.

    Very few Indians are into high IQ hard core coding, thus companies like Microsoft, Google need few Indians. Most of my software friends in India have not written a line of code in their lives.

    This is the scam. Say to do a certain task, an American employee would charge say $1000 a month (for example). In comes one of the big Indian company like TCS or Infosys. They will tell their client that they can do the job in $600 and thus the client saves $400 per employee. The Indian company will claim to the client that it pays the Indian employee $ 500 but in reality would pay $200 and pocket the rest of the money. This is done for all the employees in the project. But since $200 is good money in India the Indian employee is happy, the stupid American client company is happy (but ripped off), the Indian outsourcing company is VERY happy, the American employee is fucked. The Indian outsourcing company is even happier if the dollar value climbs against the Indian rupee so on conversion they get more profits in rupees to be paid to the share holders at home.
    That is all there is to it. I have friends who are top managers in companies like Infosys and TCS and they explained to me this simple scam.

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    • Replies: @Thomm

    They will tell their client that they can do the job in $600 and thus the client saves $400 per employee. The Indian company will claim to the client that it pays the Indian employee $ 500 but in reality would pay $200 and pocket the rest of the money. This is done for all the employees in the project. But since $200 is good money in India the Indian employee is happy, the stupid American client company is happy (but ripped off), the Indian outsourcing company is VERY happy, the American employee is fucked.
     
    This is interesting. But what scale does this happen on? There are only 125,000 new H1-Bs approved each year, so for all the hype, it is relatively small in a country of 325M. I doubt it has truly suppressed the wages of the entire US tech industry (tons of $150K jobs are still going unfilled in Silicon Valley).

    Indian IT workers in India are not H1-B, since they are in their own country (a lot of White Nationalist-Leftists don't know the different between 'H1-B' and 'outsourcing to India').

    But I also heard that the wages of the decent workers in India is rising quickly (like 25%/year), and the inept ones will eventually not be hired for any price (even $200 is expensive if the output is less than that).

    So what happens?

    One also wonders why Russia, with its software expertise, didn't take this business on the world scale. India exports $100B/year of software. One would think that Russia would have been able to secure that business.

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  79. Malla says:
    @Malla
    I do not understand why companies hire Indians when they hardly win programming contests.

    https://www.techworm.net/2016/10/top-10-countries-best-programmers-world.html

    Check out the IBM ACM contests, the Indian IIT which many Indians brag about never came in the top spots even and many a times could never solve any problems. Most of the winners are Eastern European and Chinese teams.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACM_International_Collegiate_Programming_Contest

    Most of the software programmers in India, hardly do high level coding jobs but some kind of support work.

    Indeed the Indian industry itself claims that a whooping 80% engineers in India are unemployable.

    https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/hyderabad/80-engineers-unemployable-as-they-lack-key-skills-report/articleshow/58141318.cms

    And this has become a major topic of discussion in India

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d557CdZg1RE

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3yVdvAUpos


    And finally an Indian in the USA finally admits the mass faking of resumes by Indians to fool Americans

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8Um5tYHMZQ

    As well as Indian companies in the USA commit a lot of illegal activities

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9hXlRwrWsY&spfreload=10

    I am sorry in my earlier post, the video is in Hindi but I was more interested in showing the title of the video

    “Most of our engineers have no knowledge, interest or skill in engineering”

    One of the panelist (the guy with the beard in green shirt) is Mr. Mohandas Pai, who was Member of the board of directors of Infosys, and Head – Administration, Education and Research, Financial, Human Resources, and Infosys Leadership Institute. He clearly claims that most Indian engineers are not competent at all and are clearly unemployable.

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  80. Malla says:
    @Thomm
    Hello Ron,

    I would love to see a deep-dive analysis from you about why Indians in the West are so successful. They are the highest-income group in the US, bar none, and this has been true for too long, across too large a community, to be simply dismissed as 'every Indian in the US is from the cognitive top 1% of Indian society'. This is clearly not true.

    https://cdn.static-economist.com/sites/default/files/20150523_SRC174.png

    The reason this is so fascinating is that while one can easily and correctly point out that the failure of blacks in Africa correlates to their dysfunction in the US even after an astronomical sum of resources has been poured into them, the same does not seem to apply to why India is poor, while Indians overseas are successful. Not just in the US either; they are near the top in the UK too, and in Singapore, have recently surged past the Chinese in household income. Furthermore, most of the richest Indians in the US are owners of hotel chains and gas stations , rather than white collar professionals, so the 'cognitive elite' dismissal is obviously not the whole story, since the richest are gritty entrepreneurs in low-tech sectors and don't have advanced STEM degrees.

    The many poor Indian infants adopted by white American parents (to virtue signal) also tend to perform at the white median, even if these infants were sourced from utter destitution in India. What gives?

    Lastly, the normal HBD arguments don't seem to apply either. Sri Lanka is the darkest/least caucasoid country in South Asia, but is the most prosperous. By contrast, Afghanistan and Pakistan are far more Caucasoid, but are the poorest. India is in between, and southern India is more prosperous than northern India. It seems that Caucasoid percentage has an inverse correlation to prosperity over here (or that Islam is a negative that supercedes genetics, which is likely).

    It would be great to see your take on this. You did yeoman work in proving that 2nd-Gen Hispanic crime rates are barely higher than whites, and that Hispanic Crime is a myth. A similar treatment of this fascinating subject would be a delight to read (Steve Sailer isn't quite up to the mark to take on this subject, and Anatoly Karlin is woefully out of his league).

    “Lastly, the normal HBD arguments don’t seem to apply either. Sri Lanka is the darkest/least caucasoid country in South Asia, but is the most prosperous. By contrast, Afghanistan and Pakistan are far more Caucasoid, but are the poorest. India is in between, and southern India is more prosperous than northern India.”

    Though you have directed the post towards Ron, I would like to chip in.

    It is not true at all that South Indian states have a higher per capita income than North Indian states. The lagging North Indian states are the cow belt states of Utter Pradesh and Bihar full of Hindu fundamentalists and their equally crazy muslim counterparts.

    If you check Indian states with GDP per capita,

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Indian_states_and_union_territories_by_GDP_per_capita

    the North Indian state of Haryana has a much higher per capita income than the highest scoring South Indian state Karnataka (Pondicherry is a small union territory). Besides the Western states of Maharastra and Gujrat (which can be considered a Northern State) also have higher per capita income than Karnataka.

    I believe religious fundamentalism plays a big role in development and wealth in South Asia. Places with high Hindu or Muslim religious fundamentalism tend to be screwed up. Examples of high Hindu religious fundamentalism are the cow belt states of Utter Pradesh and Bihar and Islamic fundamantalism, example is Pakistan. I also think that Buddhism plays a positive role in higher prosperity in Sri Lanka. Indeed from colonial times, European writes had written about the less gap between the rich and poor in Ceylon (Sri Lanka) than in India. Same with Christianity, for Goa which has a substantial Christian population, has the highest per capita income of all in India. It was also under European rule (Portuguese) for much longer. Even Sikkim state which has a big Buddhist population scores very high on per capita income scores very high on standard of living. My take is, more Christian or Buddhist the place is in South Asia, less the gap between the rich and poor and less tragedy of the commons. More Hindu or Islamic fundamentalist the place has, more fucked up the place is.
    Besides that, the per cpita income gap between India and Pakistan is very small.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita

    The difference is just $300. I would not consider war torn Afghanistan at all. It is idiotic to consider the Afghanistan of today for such comparisons.
    Pakistan used to have a higher per capita income than India in the past but thanks to rising Islamic fundamentalism is going down the drain.

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  81. Malla says:
    @Thomm

    We want every 140IQ Brahmin, Han, etc. – we can lay our hands on.
     
    I fully agree. This should be the immigration policy, period.

    If only we could similarly expel negros and WN wiggers too. Then we would be in business.

    One small correction - there was an analysis a couple of weeks ago about how IQ and caste in India don't correlate. 'Brahmins' are not necessarily high IQ (or rich, since they tend to be clergy, monks, professors, etc. but not businessmen).

    “there was an analysis a couple of weeks ago about how IQ and caste in India don’t correlate. ‘Brahmins’ are not necessarily high IQ (or rich, since they tend to be clergy, monks, professors, etc. but not businessmen).”

    I do not agree at all, caste does correlate with intelligence and success. I am upper caste Hindu myself but not Brahmin. But I can vouch for what I have seen in India that upper caste Hindus tend to have more intelligent people per 1000 persons than those from lower caste backgrounds. Indeed lower caste Hindus get Affirmative action in government hiring and colleges. It is called reservations. Indeed this is a big problem in India and upper caste Indians are angry about this. I do not claim high IQ people are absent in lower castes, there surely are many but as a percentage definitely less than upper caste Hindus. Dr. Babasaheb Ambedkar who fought for lower caste rights and wrote our constitution was lower caste and he was very intelligent.
    Brahmins are not the most richest. Obviously they are not. The richest will always be and are the merchant castes like the Bania, Gujju Marwari Sindhis. But these merchant castes are also part of the upper castes. Brahmins are not the only upper castes, the caste system is more complicated than that.
    Indeed the problem in India is that even with reservations in college admissions, lower caste Indians still cannot compete professionally on average with upper caste Indians.

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    • Replies: @Thomm

    Brahmins are not the most richest. Obviously they are not. The richest will always be and are the merchant castes like the Bania, Gujju Marwari Sindhis. But these merchant castes are also part of the upper castes.
     
    That is what I mean. But I thought the merchant caste was Caste #3 out of 4.

    I think it was said that about 20% of Indians are high-IQ (thus accounting for all these castes), and the other 80% are low IQ and will never modernize. Is this your assessment as well?

    At any rate, I am more interested in the success of Indians here in the US. For whatever reason, they are #1 in household income (surpassing Jews).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_groups_in_the_United_States_by_household_income

    They appear to be well placed as the CEOs of tech companies (Google, Microsoft, Adobe, Sandisk, Arista, NetApp), and non-tech companies (PepsiCo, MasterCard, and in the past, USAirways and Citi). They seem to be deans of a lot of top business schools and engineering schools too. All this from a group that is just 1% of the US population.

    But these are obviously not the elite of India. The rich in India have no reason to leave. Plus, the Indians who are not in knowledge-based professions, but in low-tech business (hotels, gas stations, etc.), have also dominated those sectors.

    What gives?

    Is it just that India is so crowded and cutthroat that Indians find it easy to reach the top of this system? The 2nd Gen Indians (i.e. born here) seem very assimilated, and I see many of them marrying non-Indians (usually whites). They all go to top universities, even if their K-12 was here. They seem to get top jobs in Wall Street and Silicon Valley. Again, these are the 2nd-gen Indians with American accents.

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  82. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @anarchyst
    Unions have had their time and place, and could prove useful, even now if they got into the health insurance market, utilizing their members across bargaining unit lines. Unfortunately, unions are not "forward thinking" and have still stuck to the old model of "shut up and pay your union dues".
    Here is my take on "unions" . . . my own personal experiences with union membership...
    I was hired by a large company to perform maintenance and repair on highly sophisticated electrical and electronic systems. Within six months, my company was able to eliminate the use of "outside contractors" to maintain this equipment. My employer recognized my value to the company and decided to give me a substantial "raise". All went well until my "union" (which I was FORCED to belong to in pre-right-to-work days) found out about it. The "union's" position on my raise was that "if he gets a raise, everyone else in the "bargaining unit" must get a raise". My raise was rescinded. Efforts by my company to establish another "job classification" within the "bargaining unit" were rebuffed by union leaders.
    Here I was, FORCED to belong to a union that is denying me the ability to get paid commensurately for my skills and effort.
    It took TWO YEARS and considerable effort to establish another job classification for me to get my raise.
    Unions promote mediocrity and stifle incentive.
    I can stand on my own two feet without having a "union" represent me.

    Why not exercise exercise your right to work and get another job instead of suffering a two year prison sentence of on the job communism? If you can stand on your own two feet, why would you show up each day to work for (or depend on) someone else? You can do it, work for it, just like your boss did.

    Now your boss probably has no issue with his union. But unions confuse people because they don’t really know what one is. (They don’t know what a Democracy is either, they just believe in it when it is used to label a country that is anything but a Democracy – but that’s another essay. ) What is a union? A police union is a union. A union that works closely with management and functions more or less as an adjunct to company HR is called a union. A powerful union that protects politically important workers is a form of reciprocity or a boon to business interests knowing said interests will be protected by these workers/public servants. Politically active unions have “actively” undermined efforts that are truly in the interest of workers, therefore a key asset to management.

    Thus, unions are far from dead, because they are useful, they aren’t what they were necessarily, and they aren’t all the same. Hamilton James wants you to believe in Democracy but not unions, which is not too far from what Newt Gingrich believes. The thing you need to ask yourself when you’re done listening to Rush Limbaugh is whether workers in the United States are doing worse. The answer is generally yes.

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    • Replies: @anarchyst
    I liked my job and what I did. I was not about to throw away my extensive benefits and considerable vacation time by "starting over" somewhere else.. As for Rush Limbaugh and his ilk, I have no use for them...
    My boss DID have issues with the union as the union protected the slackers and malcontents. Any person who is competent in his profession and provides valu to his employer doesn't need a union...
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  83. Malla says:
    @Thomm
    Hello Ron,

    I would love to see a deep-dive analysis from you about why Indians in the West are so successful. They are the highest-income group in the US, bar none, and this has been true for too long, across too large a community, to be simply dismissed as 'every Indian in the US is from the cognitive top 1% of Indian society'. This is clearly not true.

    https://cdn.static-economist.com/sites/default/files/20150523_SRC174.png

    The reason this is so fascinating is that while one can easily and correctly point out that the failure of blacks in Africa correlates to their dysfunction in the US even after an astronomical sum of resources has been poured into them, the same does not seem to apply to why India is poor, while Indians overseas are successful. Not just in the US either; they are near the top in the UK too, and in Singapore, have recently surged past the Chinese in household income. Furthermore, most of the richest Indians in the US are owners of hotel chains and gas stations , rather than white collar professionals, so the 'cognitive elite' dismissal is obviously not the whole story, since the richest are gritty entrepreneurs in low-tech sectors and don't have advanced STEM degrees.

    The many poor Indian infants adopted by white American parents (to virtue signal) also tend to perform at the white median, even if these infants were sourced from utter destitution in India. What gives?

    Lastly, the normal HBD arguments don't seem to apply either. Sri Lanka is the darkest/least caucasoid country in South Asia, but is the most prosperous. By contrast, Afghanistan and Pakistan are far more Caucasoid, but are the poorest. India is in between, and southern India is more prosperous than northern India. It seems that Caucasoid percentage has an inverse correlation to prosperity over here (or that Islam is a negative that supercedes genetics, which is likely).

    It would be great to see your take on this. You did yeoman work in proving that 2nd-Gen Hispanic crime rates are barely higher than whites, and that Hispanic Crime is a myth. A similar treatment of this fascinating subject would be a delight to read (Steve Sailer isn't quite up to the mark to take on this subject, and Anatoly Karlin is woefully out of his league).

    I would say as an Indian myself, the success of Indians in the west has more to do with cunningness and nepotism rather than IQ. Not that high IQ Indians do not exist, of course we exist. Some of my best friends were high IQ Indians who went to Stanford and MIT but the large masses of Indians are low IQ and low productive populations.
    We Indians come from a survivalist culture and we are used to cunning, cheating, office politics and nepotism than most White people. Indeed many of the Indians friends consider Whites naive and childish in their trustfulness. We have this concept called ‘jugaad’ which means getting things done using contacts and verbal skills. But I think that the masses of Indians/South Asians tend to be low IQ, low productivity population. What has happened is most of high IQ Indians who form a small part of out billion plus population have already been absorbed by industry and the left over masses are low IQ populations and hence the Indians Industry is crying about the quality of workforce they are getting now. My Dad runs a manufacturing company, so does my uncle and I have been in both. Man, running a company with Indian labour is quite a task. Low IQ, laziness, not working unless told, ripping off, stealing, low productivity, being argumentative. It is hell. I have been to countries of the west and have lived for some years in the U.K. I would anyday take White British labour over Indian labour. British workers are much more smarter, more honest, more hardworking and one British worker would have the productivity of four Indians workers but British workers are just too expensive and most would not like to live here. Se we are stuck with crappy low IQ Indian workers.
    To explain what we face, I would like you to check this video.

    This Indian/Bangladeshi guy (basically a Bengali) talking about race. Listen from 1:02:05
    What he describes is very common when dealing with South Asian desi labour. What he describes we face all the time. And trust me, the educated management here is not much better than the labour.

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    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    One thing that's important to note and frequently missed is that value-creation is probably not the best way to make a profit in Silicon Valley. Due to the way information spreads and expectations work, from an individual perspective, your best options for making a fortune really do seem to be:

    1) Have a startup which gets heavily hyped. Get bought out, and probably screw the rest of your employees. Attrition rates among companies which have been purchased are horrific, and in my experience, typically there's no ownership sharing. So essentially the top partners make it out wealthy, everyone else gets laid off.

    2) Be behind a large and well-resourced company. Buy out companies which have accumulated client lists for cheap, and then essentially hold them hostage due to restrictive contracts or simply because of inertia in the software.

    As such, politics and to a large extent, being heartless is advantageous and value creation is only a secondary goal. This is probably not collectively helpful, however and you can notice it in issues with actual software - Excel doesn't really get better, for example.

    Libertarians envision a world with a lot more pure competition and a lot less corruption than there is. This is not my experience in SV.

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  84. anarchyst says:
    @Anonymous
    Why not exercise exercise your right to work and get another job instead of suffering a two year prison sentence of on the job communism? If you can stand on your own two feet, why would you show up each day to work for (or depend on) someone else? You can do it, work for it, just like your boss did.

    Now your boss probably has no issue with his union. But unions confuse people because they don't really know what one is. (They don't know what a Democracy is either, they just believe in it when it is used to label a country that is anything but a Democracy - but that's another essay. ) What is a union? A police union is a union. A union that works closely with management and functions more or less as an adjunct to company HR is called a union. A powerful union that protects politically important workers is a form of reciprocity or a boon to business interests knowing said interests will be protected by these workers/public servants. Politically active unions have "actively" undermined efforts that are truly in the interest of workers, therefore a key asset to management.

    Thus, unions are far from dead, because they are useful, they aren't what they were necessarily, and they aren't all the same. Hamilton James wants you to believe in Democracy but not unions, which is not too far from what Newt Gingrich believes. The thing you need to ask yourself when you're done listening to Rush Limbaugh is whether workers in the United States are doing worse. The answer is generally yes.

    I liked my job and what I did. I was not about to throw away my extensive benefits and considerable vacation time by “starting over” somewhere else.. As for Rush Limbaugh and his ilk, I have no use for them…
    My boss DID have issues with the union as the union protected the slackers and malcontents. Any person who is competent in his profession and provides valu to his employer doesn’t need a union…

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  85. Thomm says:
    @Logan
    Ford was smart enough to recognize that turnover was his biggest expense. Not only the direct cost of training new people, but also the cost of the poor quality control associated with the new people.

    So he pretty much eliminated turnover by doubling what he had previously paid workers. Less than stellar workers were let go, and the best workers left other employment and gravitated to Ford. Turnover pretty much disappeared.

    Other employers, at least in the area, were forced to raise wages to avoid losing their good employees to Ford and being stuck with his castoffs.

    Ford was smart enough to recognize that turnover was his biggest expense. Not only the direct cost of training new people, but also the cost of the poor quality control associated with the new people.

    Perhaps. But that is usually remedied with a 10% raise, not 300%.

    At least that argument is better than the ‘he created a market’ one.

    But if it was that straightforward, companies would still be doing it (including Ford Motor Co. of today, as well as Apple, Google, etc.).

    Read More
    • Replies: @Logan
    Ford raised his production line employees by about 100%, not 300%.

    I don't claim to know Ford's exact motives.

    But here is some discussion in his own words.

    http://www.saturdayeveningpost.com/2014/01/03/history/post-perspective/ford-doubles-minimum-wage.html
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  86. Thomm says:
    @KenH

    You make arguments identical to the $15/hr minimum wage morons. It is funny how readily you out yourself as a dumb socialist.
     
    Just like you out yourself as a lame brained Indian (or oriental or Jew) who thinks libertarian economic theory is the final word on everything. I wasn't referring to inflated wages for McDonald's and Starbucks workers in Seattle mandated by the city council, but for living wages in major industries like automotive, aerospace, industrial, etc., which are industries that helped create and grow the middle class. But you're too dense to understand that.

    Ford, Boeing, John Deere and similar enterprises paying their employees living wages and financially incentivizing their top employees to stay is not socialism and the fact that you think it is and the same as Starbucks paying $15/hr exposes your gross ignorance, stupidity and libertarian ideological rigidity.

    I am a white guy born in America,
     
    Oh yeah, from "great lakes area" which outs you as some airhead troll who knows nothing about America. You could just be a frustrated half breed. Since Jews are highly overrepresented in the libertarian movement and generally hate and loathe white nationalists there's an excellent chance you're one of them.

    But I do admire Asian-Americans in general and Indians in particular, since they are the highest-income group in America, bar none.
     
    If you were honest you would admit that these groups you so admire have benefitted from affirmative action policies far more than they've been harmed by them which has artificially boosted their group income levels which have won your love and admiration. Most companies hire orientals and Indians to help fulfill their affirmative action and minority preference hiring goals and to avoid having to hire too many subpar black and Latino candidates. They also qualify for race and gender based promotions once on the payroll.

    But if you are truly white (non-Jewish) and admire Indians as much as you say then you can still emigrate to India to build latrines and outhouses for their people and start an empire. This way they won't have to defecate on the city streets of Bombay in broad daylight. You'll have well over one billion Indians to admire 24/7/365. What's stopping you?

    But you’re too dense to understand that.

    Don’t project your ignorance and leftism onto others. The US had high manufacturing wages from 1946-73 only because the US was the only country that could manufacture advanced goods and export them. There was no international competition from Japan, Germany, etc. The correction of this wage to the current levels is to be expected once the countries formerly devastated in WW2 fully catch up.

    You are hilariously ignorant, except that is to be expected from a WN Wigger (with your Negro IQ).

    Ford, Boeing, John Deere and similar enterprises paying their employees living wages and financially incentivizing their top employees

    Incentives are not the same thing as a socialist ‘living wage’ you stupid faggot.

    Silicon Valley pays stock options and RSUs to employees. They are more advanced in the idea of incentives than others.

    Oh yeah, from “great lakes area” which outs you as some airhead troll who knows nothing about America.

    err…it outs YOU as a Negro-IQ White Trashionalist who knows nothing about America. States on the Great Lakes call themselves that.

    Great Lakes Region :

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Lakes_region

    But it is good to see you are still butthurt about the fact that I remind you how successful whites diligently exclude waste matter like you from polite society. We know that the bottom 10% (that you represent) is just garbage that nature wants to weed out of the gene pool.

    Heh heh heh heh

    If you were honest you would admit that these groups you so admire have benefitted from affirmative action

    Asians don’t get affirmative action, your retarded wigger. This has been discussed at length by many authors here at Unz. You are obviously illiterate if you haven’t learned even that yet.

    But keep associating your White Trashionalism with socialism. I *want* more people to see howit is a leftist socialist ideology, favored only by WN wiggers and bluehaired feminists.

    Again…. heh heh heh heh

    Read More
    • Replies: @KenH

    Don’t project your ignorance and leftism onto others. The US had high manufacturing wages from 1946-73 only because the US was the only country that could manufacture advanced goods and export them. There was no international competition from Japan, Germany, etc.
     
    Wrong. The bottom didn't fall out in 1973. The U.S. had relatively high manufacturing wages until the early 90's when NAFTA passed and companies began moving manufacturing plants to Mexico. Bill Clinton granting MFN to China delivered the coup de grace with an increasing number of companies gaming the system by relocating manufacturing to China for the slave labor and low regulatory burden then paying the paltry import duty to export products back to the U.S and pocket the difference.

    The U.S. rebuilt the German and Japanese economies following WWII. Japanese and German industry does churn out high quality products, but they also receive subsidies from their governments which gives them a comparative advantage over U.S. industry since it defrays R&D and other costs like employee training. And both nations protect their markets with import tariffs and other duties unlike the U.S.

    You have little inkling of what your talking about because there's nothing but air in your undersized cranium. It's obvious you don't even possess a negro IQ.


    Incentives are not the same thing as a socialist ‘living wage’ you stupid faggot.
     
    So incentives like stock options and RSU's are the epitome of free market principles but private industry paying good wages to its lower level employees who don't qualify for those benefits is "socialism"? This is an ignorant and moronic claim.

    Would it make you feel better if Ford paid union and non-management employees $5/hr but gave them RSU's?


    err…it outs YOU as a Negro-IQ White Trashionalist who knows nothing about America. States on the Great Lakes call themselves that.
     
    No, dork. As I and others told you residents of the Great Lakes Region don't typically say they live in "the great lakes area" like you did no more than people in Biloxi, MS say they live in "the gulf of Mexico area." You're just some internet dork who thinks a pocket atlas makes you an expert on U.S. geography.

    Asians don’t get affirmative action, your retarded wigger. This has been discussed at length by many authors here at Unz.
     
    Yes they do, goober. Asian advocacy organizations like AAJC strongly support it and admit that it benefits them. That an infitestimal number of Asian students have faced discrimination in applying to Ivy League schools doesn't change this fact especially when they're overrepresented by 350%.
    https://advancingjustice-aajc.org/publication/affirmative-action-facts
    Many large and medium sized companies extend AA in hiring and promotions to every group except white males.

    If America ever starts discriminating in favor of its founding stock causing Indian group incomes decline below that of whites will you fall out of love with them? A white guy (or so you claim) with a fetish for Indians makes you one weird dude. It's no wonder you repulse women no matter how much cologne you splash on.

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  87. Alden says:
    @Anon
    Anon,


    In my lifetime I have been a member of 3 Unions, IBEW, IAM and AFSCME. I have been a union Steward, and a rep to Local Labor council.

    The only contractor that is/was union in the Mid East that I know of was Inglet and Stubbs out of Atlanta. My comment was that there is little or no Union pressure on wages or working conditions on the LOGCAP program. All the contractors are out of the South and the pressure is to cut wages, RnRs and working conditions. One way to do that is get rid of the US and Brit expats.

    The job market for electricians in the North Chicagoland area withered and died after 9/11 and has never really come back. At the time there was 1200 journeyman construction electricians in my home local. There was maybe 300 working. Everybody else was losing their homes and families. There is only about 600 working now in the jurisdiction.

    So electrical work in the Mid East is done by on the job trained guys? I bet those countries have some kind of low, lower, lowest universal building code as well.

    For some reason there is nothing in Vegas for electricians. So there are a lot of travelers from there in the Bay Area and they all have work. Guys even come from Alaska. Be a traveler and come to the Bay Area and your brothers will welcome you. Rents are expensive, but put an ad on the bulletin board and maybe you can find a room to rent from a brother for less than $1,000 a month. There is an RV park somewhere in the city with hookups and everything. Lots of the travelers live in them.

    Actually, come after Christmas because all the conventions and trade shows are slowing down and people will be laid off from them starting the middle of December. If you do shows and have to travel between San Francisco and all over San Mateo and Santa Clara counties and to San Jose you get paid full wages for the travel time. Unions are good aren’t they?

    The subway and light rail go pretty far out to the suburbs where rents are a lot cheaper.

    I doubt electrical work actually dried up north of Chicago. Probably the contractors just imported a bunch of illegal mexicans. Hope they get sued for the shoddy work and fire hazards.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon
    Thanks for the info. Yes the union has been good for me and the people I care about. Most of the manufacturing here is gone. The Nuke shut down, fossil fuel burner to shut down soon. Pharmaceuticals plants used to have 60-100 men on maintenance crews , that's all gone. Housing gone bust. Yes there are some contractors using illegals here but mostly carpenters,drywall, laborers, etc. Not so much in the piping and mechanical trades. Take care
    , @Anon
    At least some Mideast electrical work is done by South Asian (Indo/Pak/Lankan) contractors who are at least trained.

    RSDB (diff. anon)
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  88. Thomm says:
    @Malla
    "there was an analysis a couple of weeks ago about how IQ and caste in India don’t correlate. ‘Brahmins’ are not necessarily high IQ (or rich, since they tend to be clergy, monks, professors, etc. but not businessmen)."

    I do not agree at all, caste does correlate with intelligence and success. I am upper caste Hindu myself but not Brahmin. But I can vouch for what I have seen in India that upper caste Hindus tend to have more intelligent people per 1000 persons than those from lower caste backgrounds. Indeed lower caste Hindus get Affirmative action in government hiring and colleges. It is called reservations. Indeed this is a big problem in India and upper caste Indians are angry about this. I do not claim high IQ people are absent in lower castes, there surely are many but as a percentage definitely less than upper caste Hindus. Dr. Babasaheb Ambedkar who fought for lower caste rights and wrote our constitution was lower caste and he was very intelligent.
    Brahmins are not the most richest. Obviously they are not. The richest will always be and are the merchant castes like the Bania, Gujju Marwari Sindhis. But these merchant castes are also part of the upper castes. Brahmins are not the only upper castes, the caste system is more complicated than that.
    Indeed the problem in India is that even with reservations in college admissions, lower caste Indians still cannot compete professionally on average with upper caste Indians.

    Brahmins are not the most richest. Obviously they are not. The richest will always be and are the merchant castes like the Bania, Gujju Marwari Sindhis. But these merchant castes are also part of the upper castes.

    That is what I mean. But I thought the merchant caste was Caste #3 out of 4.

    I think it was said that about 20% of Indians are high-IQ (thus accounting for all these castes), and the other 80% are low IQ and will never modernize. Is this your assessment as well?

    At any rate, I am more interested in the success of Indians here in the US. For whatever reason, they are #1 in household income (surpassing Jews).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_groups_in_the_United_States_by_household_income

    They appear to be well placed as the CEOs of tech companies (Google, Microsoft, Adobe, Sandisk, Arista, NetApp), and non-tech companies (PepsiCo, MasterCard, and in the past, USAirways and Citi). They seem to be deans of a lot of top business schools and engineering schools too. All this from a group that is just 1% of the US population.

    But these are obviously not the elite of India. The rich in India have no reason to leave. Plus, the Indians who are not in knowledge-based professions, but in low-tech business (hotels, gas stations, etc.), have also dominated those sectors.

    What gives?

    Is it just that India is so crowded and cutthroat that Indians find it easy to reach the top of this system? The 2nd Gen Indians (i.e. born here) seem very assimilated, and I see many of them marrying non-Indians (usually whites). They all go to top universities, even if their K-12 was here. They seem to get top jobs in Wall Street and Silicon Valley. Again, these are the 2nd-gen Indians with American accents.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Punju
    "What gives?
    Is it just that India is so crowded and cutthroat that Indians find it easy to reach the top of this system?"

    Many of us came here in late 60s and early 70s and had to prove our professional worth to our employers. Nothing to fall back upon financially and also not used to safety nets or medical insurances in India, one learns to be very hard working and frugal in spending. Those survival instincts and work ethics are learned at home and helped our next generation to excel at high schools and subsequently at the ivy schools. Locals are more interested in football, NBA and Baseball scores or being all rounders than being best at STEM. Thank God we also were from poor country and not spoiled like Iranians and Arabs in 60s AND we were not infected with any religious zeal and therefore focus was on improving your, and if possible, your family's lot and be thankful to this country.

    So, success ingredients were all here - hard work, focus on productive/employable skill sets, be loyal to the country that offered you the opportunities.

    What Malla said about poor skills or work ethics of average Indian IN INDIA is most probably true, success in USA - over longer term - working independently in competitive corporate environment is simply not possible by being cheater or irresponsible or uncompetitive.

    Lastly, Indian success story in not unique and other ethnic groups - Jews, Irish, Italians - had similar success stories earlier. We just started with higher level of education as part of that selection process. As time goes by, income levels are invariably going to be normalized over a few generations.
    , @Malla
    "But these are obviously not the elite of India. The rich in India have no reason to leave. Plus, the Indians who are not in knowledge-based professions, but in low-tech business (hotels, gas stations, etc.), have also dominated those sectors."

    Most of the Indians who have gone to the USA and Great Britain are indeed the elites of India. Not the entire elite group as some have remained to be bureaucrats in the government and entrepreneurs. We have a billion plus population, remember.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y73pSh57pWE

    Check out from 40:38 minutes
    Ramchandra Guha, Indian author and historian says in this interview that never has the USA ever got a more elite group of immigrants as Indian immigrants. It was a transfer of elites from one country to another. Of course this is not true for everybody but in general that is true.

    The rich have reason to leave as the lifestyle in first world countries is better. Corruption, pollution, excessive competition etc.... there are many reasons why Indian elites would love to go to the first world. As far as low tech businesses, most of them Indians are from mercentile backgrounds, most of them are Gujratis and Sindhis who have a long tradition of being mercentile. These communities live at the border lands of India where they handled the trade between the Indian interior and the Middle East, they are what Venetians are to Europe.

    Low IQ Indian immigrants tend to go more to the Middle East and in the past upto some extent to Canada and Malaysia and even recently to the U.K. But they have brought with them many Third world pathologies which is not that common among U.S. Indians.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkTgg5pbPHs

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDzj57l59A8

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAEJwbEvyaM
    , @Malla
    "The rich in India have no reason to leave."

    Listen properly to this video and you will understand why many would like to leave.

    https://youtu.be/Ntosk72rQOw

    This Indian/Bangladeshi guy (basically a Bengali) talking about race. Listen from 1:02:05
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  89. Thomm says:
    @Malla
    Very few Indians are into high IQ hard core coding, thus companies like Microsoft, Google need few Indians. Most of my software friends in India have not written a line of code in their lives.

    This is the scam. Say to do a certain task, an American employee would charge say $1000 a month (for example). In comes one of the big Indian company like TCS or Infosys. They will tell their client that they can do the job in $600 and thus the client saves $400 per employee. The Indian company will claim to the client that it pays the Indian employee $ 500 but in reality would pay $200 and pocket the rest of the money. This is done for all the employees in the project. But since $200 is good money in India the Indian employee is happy, the stupid American client company is happy (but ripped off), the Indian outsourcing company is VERY happy, the American employee is fucked. The Indian outsourcing company is even happier if the dollar value climbs against the Indian rupee so on conversion they get more profits in rupees to be paid to the share holders at home.
    That is all there is to it. I have friends who are top managers in companies like Infosys and TCS and they explained to me this simple scam.

    They will tell their client that they can do the job in $600 and thus the client saves $400 per employee. The Indian company will claim to the client that it pays the Indian employee $ 500 but in reality would pay $200 and pocket the rest of the money. This is done for all the employees in the project. But since $200 is good money in India the Indian employee is happy, the stupid American client company is happy (but ripped off), the Indian outsourcing company is VERY happy, the American employee is fucked.

    This is interesting. But what scale does this happen on? There are only 125,000 new H1-Bs approved each year, so for all the hype, it is relatively small in a country of 325M. I doubt it has truly suppressed the wages of the entire US tech industry (tons of $150K jobs are still going unfilled in Silicon Valley).

    Indian IT workers in India are not H1-B, since they are in their own country (a lot of White Nationalist-Leftists don’t know the different between ‘H1-B’ and ‘outsourcing to India’).

    But I also heard that the wages of the decent workers in India is rising quickly (like 25%/year), and the inept ones will eventually not be hired for any price (even $200 is expensive if the output is less than that).

    So what happens?

    One also wonders why Russia, with its software expertise, didn’t take this business on the world scale. India exports $100B/year of software. One would think that Russia would have been able to secure that business.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Malla
    "But I also heard that the wages of the decent workers in India is rising quickly (like 25%/year), and the inept ones will eventually not be hired for any price (even $200 is expensive if the output is less than that)."

    Not for long (increase in wages) , those days seem to be over.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnoKHBbSQFA

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnDvXt5I_n4

    What used to happen was once you would get into management after some years of work experience, employees would be more into management work rather than software. And they would get a good fat salary. Earlier, during the good days, most companies needed/tolerated this bloated lot as all these management guys did was manage software novices (lots of politics there). But with changing times and with increases in automation, companies do not want to spend money on this middle management group. The new model, will be a lot of low paid software professionals with a streamlined management. Only those people doing proper coding jobs in new upcoming technology (they tend to be the cream of the graduates coming from institutes like IIT, BITS Pilani, Rourkee) will see professional growth in this industry. The future is more streamlined.

    "the inept ones will eventually not be hired for any price (even $200 is expensive if the output is less than that)."

    That is exactly what is happening. Thus mass layoffs in the IT industry coming.

    , @Malla
    "One also wonders why Russia, with its software expertise, didn’t take this business on the world scale. India exports $100B/year of software. One would think that Russia would have been able to secure that business."

    Well it is already happening

    http://www.computerweekly.com/blog/Investigating-Outsourcing/Is-Eastern-Europe-Indias-biggest-threat-for-IT-outsourcing

    https://www.gadgetsnow.com/tech-news/these-are-the-biggest-challenges-facing-indian-it-industry-as-per-mid-year-economic-survey/articleshow/60021196.cms

    https://qarea.com/articles/india-vs-eastern-europe-where-outsource-it
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  90. Punju says:
    @Thomm

    Brahmins are not the most richest. Obviously they are not. The richest will always be and are the merchant castes like the Bania, Gujju Marwari Sindhis. But these merchant castes are also part of the upper castes.
     
    That is what I mean. But I thought the merchant caste was Caste #3 out of 4.

    I think it was said that about 20% of Indians are high-IQ (thus accounting for all these castes), and the other 80% are low IQ and will never modernize. Is this your assessment as well?

    At any rate, I am more interested in the success of Indians here in the US. For whatever reason, they are #1 in household income (surpassing Jews).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_groups_in_the_United_States_by_household_income

    They appear to be well placed as the CEOs of tech companies (Google, Microsoft, Adobe, Sandisk, Arista, NetApp), and non-tech companies (PepsiCo, MasterCard, and in the past, USAirways and Citi). They seem to be deans of a lot of top business schools and engineering schools too. All this from a group that is just 1% of the US population.

    But these are obviously not the elite of India. The rich in India have no reason to leave. Plus, the Indians who are not in knowledge-based professions, but in low-tech business (hotels, gas stations, etc.), have also dominated those sectors.

    What gives?

    Is it just that India is so crowded and cutthroat that Indians find it easy to reach the top of this system? The 2nd Gen Indians (i.e. born here) seem very assimilated, and I see many of them marrying non-Indians (usually whites). They all go to top universities, even if their K-12 was here. They seem to get top jobs in Wall Street and Silicon Valley. Again, these are the 2nd-gen Indians with American accents.

    “What gives?
    Is it just that India is so crowded and cutthroat that Indians find it easy to reach the top of this system?”

    Many of us came here in late 60s and early 70s and had to prove our professional worth to our employers. Nothing to fall back upon financially and also not used to safety nets or medical insurances in India, one learns to be very hard working and frugal in spending. Those survival instincts and work ethics are learned at home and helped our next generation to excel at high schools and subsequently at the ivy schools. Locals are more interested in football, NBA and Baseball scores or being all rounders than being best at STEM. Thank God we also were from poor country and not spoiled like Iranians and Arabs in 60s AND we were not infected with any religious zeal and therefore focus was on improving your, and if possible, your family’s lot and be thankful to this country.

    So, success ingredients were all here – hard work, focus on productive/employable skill sets, be loyal to the country that offered you the opportunities.

    What Malla said about poor skills or work ethics of average Indian IN INDIA is most probably true, success in USA – over longer term – working independently in competitive corporate environment is simply not possible by being cheater or irresponsible or uncompetitive.

    Lastly, Indian success story in not unique and other ethnic groups – Jews, Irish, Italians – had similar success stories earlier. We just started with higher level of education as part of that selection process. As time goes by, income levels are invariably going to be normalized over a few generations.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Thomm
    This makes sense, thanks.

    It seems that the Indians that arrived in the 60s through 80s established a sterling brand, and employers now assume that the lower-caliber Indians that make up the bulk of H1-Bs will all do as well (just like they assume that women can perform as well as men, on average). Sadly, they will find this not to be the case.

    The bottom 10% of whites only read about the latter and had no exposure to the 1960s-80s Indians, so can think of nothing other than crude racism that proves their own lack of talent. Pay them no heed. The rest of the white American population pays them no heed, and often will even defend an immigrant from a group known to have done well, against these underachieving bigots.


    Lastly, Indian success story in not unique and other ethnic groups – Jews, Irish, Italians – had similar success stories earlier.
     
    This is partly true, but you are not giving yourself enough credit. No group outperformed as quickly as Indians did. Certainly not the Chinese. Jews are the only comparable group in terms of this level of success among 1st-gen immigrants. This chart indicates that Indian-Americans are the greatest immigrant success story of all time.

    https://cdn.static-economist.com/sites/default/files/20150523_SRC174.png

    Sure, they may normalize, but technological disruptions like brain-enhancement are bigger variables than whether Indians in the US normalize over the timeframe you mentioned.

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  91. Thomm says:
    @Punju
    "What gives?
    Is it just that India is so crowded and cutthroat that Indians find it easy to reach the top of this system?"

    Many of us came here in late 60s and early 70s and had to prove our professional worth to our employers. Nothing to fall back upon financially and also not used to safety nets or medical insurances in India, one learns to be very hard working and frugal in spending. Those survival instincts and work ethics are learned at home and helped our next generation to excel at high schools and subsequently at the ivy schools. Locals are more interested in football, NBA and Baseball scores or being all rounders than being best at STEM. Thank God we also were from poor country and not spoiled like Iranians and Arabs in 60s AND we were not infected with any religious zeal and therefore focus was on improving your, and if possible, your family's lot and be thankful to this country.

    So, success ingredients were all here - hard work, focus on productive/employable skill sets, be loyal to the country that offered you the opportunities.

    What Malla said about poor skills or work ethics of average Indian IN INDIA is most probably true, success in USA - over longer term - working independently in competitive corporate environment is simply not possible by being cheater or irresponsible or uncompetitive.

    Lastly, Indian success story in not unique and other ethnic groups - Jews, Irish, Italians - had similar success stories earlier. We just started with higher level of education as part of that selection process. As time goes by, income levels are invariably going to be normalized over a few generations.

    This makes sense, thanks.

    It seems that the Indians that arrived in the 60s through 80s established a sterling brand, and employers now assume that the lower-caliber Indians that make up the bulk of H1-Bs will all do as well (just like they assume that women can perform as well as men, on average). Sadly, they will find this not to be the case.

    The bottom 10% of whites only read about the latter and had no exposure to the 1960s-80s Indians, so can think of nothing other than crude racism that proves their own lack of talent. Pay them no heed. The rest of the white American population pays them no heed, and often will even defend an immigrant from a group known to have done well, against these underachieving bigots.

    Lastly, Indian success story in not unique and other ethnic groups – Jews, Irish, Italians – had similar success stories earlier.

    This is partly true, but you are not giving yourself enough credit. No group outperformed as quickly as Indians did. Certainly not the Chinese. Jews are the only comparable group in terms of this level of success among 1st-gen immigrants. This chart indicates that Indian-Americans are the greatest immigrant success story of all time.

    Sure, they may normalize, but technological disruptions like brain-enhancement are bigger variables than whether Indians in the US normalize over the timeframe you mentioned.

    Read More
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  92. Malla says:
    @Thomm

    They will tell their client that they can do the job in $600 and thus the client saves $400 per employee. The Indian company will claim to the client that it pays the Indian employee $ 500 but in reality would pay $200 and pocket the rest of the money. This is done for all the employees in the project. But since $200 is good money in India the Indian employee is happy, the stupid American client company is happy (but ripped off), the Indian outsourcing company is VERY happy, the American employee is fucked.
     
    This is interesting. But what scale does this happen on? There are only 125,000 new H1-Bs approved each year, so for all the hype, it is relatively small in a country of 325M. I doubt it has truly suppressed the wages of the entire US tech industry (tons of $150K jobs are still going unfilled in Silicon Valley).

    Indian IT workers in India are not H1-B, since they are in their own country (a lot of White Nationalist-Leftists don't know the different between 'H1-B' and 'outsourcing to India').

    But I also heard that the wages of the decent workers in India is rising quickly (like 25%/year), and the inept ones will eventually not be hired for any price (even $200 is expensive if the output is less than that).

    So what happens?

    One also wonders why Russia, with its software expertise, didn't take this business on the world scale. India exports $100B/year of software. One would think that Russia would have been able to secure that business.

    “But I also heard that the wages of the decent workers in India is rising quickly (like 25%/year), and the inept ones will eventually not be hired for any price (even $200 is expensive if the output is less than that).”

    Not for long (increase in wages) , those days seem to be over.

    What used to happen was once you would get into management after some years of work experience, employees would be more into management work rather than software. And they would get a good fat salary. Earlier, during the good days, most companies needed/tolerated this bloated lot as all these management guys did was manage software novices (lots of politics there). But with changing times and with increases in automation, companies do not want to spend money on this middle management group. The new model, will be a lot of low paid software professionals with a streamlined management. Only those people doing proper coding jobs in new upcoming technology (they tend to be the cream of the graduates coming from institutes like IIT, BITS Pilani, Rourkee) will see professional growth in this industry. The future is more streamlined.

    “the inept ones will eventually not be hired for any price (even $200 is expensive if the output is less than that).”

    That is exactly what is happening. Thus mass layoffs in the IT industry coming.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Thomm
    Interesting. That means that when IT jobs vanish in India, the better among those have a renewed reason to emigrate out of India to other countries (such as the US, Canada, and UK).

    The typical White Supremacist is so economically illiterate that he opposes both H1-Bs and outsourcing. He can never grasp that outsourcing to India was keeping quite a few Indians in India. Many Indians who were already in the US also went back home. But if jobs in India dry up, the pressure to mass-migrate to the US will rise. The human and the job will always find each other, whether the location is in the US or in India. White Trashionalists can never grasp this, due to their extreme economic illiteracy.

    Remember that the now-abused H1-B program was a reaction to a previous law that was equally ill-conceived. US immigration policy 1965-present for greencards was such that only 10,000 per country could come into the US. As a result, most small countries didn't even use their quotas, while China and India had a huge waitlist, sort of like a hundred people trying to squeeze through a doorway at once. Furthermore, there was no permission for small countries to sell their unused quota to China or India. Similarly, the breakup of the USSR into 15 countries suddenly changed one quota into 15 quotas, and 15 times as much theoretical intake capacity.

    H1-B is a crude workaround around that, but is obviously very substandard and prone to abuse. H1-Bs are often Indian since there is no country that combines such a large population with such a large poverty delta relative to the US. Although a lot of H1-Bs are also Filipino nurses as well.

    If IT jobs in India are in decline, get ready for another wave leaving India, some of which will land in the US (but many more will go to Canada, Australia, and Singapore).

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  93. Malla says:
    @Thomm

    Brahmins are not the most richest. Obviously they are not. The richest will always be and are the merchant castes like the Bania, Gujju Marwari Sindhis. But these merchant castes are also part of the upper castes.
     
    That is what I mean. But I thought the merchant caste was Caste #3 out of 4.

    I think it was said that about 20% of Indians are high-IQ (thus accounting for all these castes), and the other 80% are low IQ and will never modernize. Is this your assessment as well?

    At any rate, I am more interested in the success of Indians here in the US. For whatever reason, they are #1 in household income (surpassing Jews).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_groups_in_the_United_States_by_household_income

    They appear to be well placed as the CEOs of tech companies (Google, Microsoft, Adobe, Sandisk, Arista, NetApp), and non-tech companies (PepsiCo, MasterCard, and in the past, USAirways and Citi). They seem to be deans of a lot of top business schools and engineering schools too. All this from a group that is just 1% of the US population.

    But these are obviously not the elite of India. The rich in India have no reason to leave. Plus, the Indians who are not in knowledge-based professions, but in low-tech business (hotels, gas stations, etc.), have also dominated those sectors.

    What gives?

    Is it just that India is so crowded and cutthroat that Indians find it easy to reach the top of this system? The 2nd Gen Indians (i.e. born here) seem very assimilated, and I see many of them marrying non-Indians (usually whites). They all go to top universities, even if their K-12 was here. They seem to get top jobs in Wall Street and Silicon Valley. Again, these are the 2nd-gen Indians with American accents.

    “But these are obviously not the elite of India. The rich in India have no reason to leave. Plus, the Indians who are not in knowledge-based professions, but in low-tech business (hotels, gas stations, etc.), have also dominated those sectors.”

    Most of the Indians who have gone to the USA and Great Britain are indeed the elites of India. Not the entire elite group as some have remained to be bureaucrats in the government and entrepreneurs. We have a billion plus population, remember.

    Check out from 40:38 minutes
    Ramchandra Guha, Indian author and historian says in this interview that never has the USA ever got a more elite group of immigrants as Indian immigrants. It was a transfer of elites from one country to another. Of course this is not true for everybody but in general that is true.

    The rich have reason to leave as the lifestyle in first world countries is better. Corruption, pollution, excessive competition etc…. there are many reasons why Indian elites would love to go to the first world. As far as low tech businesses, most of them Indians are from mercentile backgrounds, most of them are Gujratis and Sindhis who have a long tradition of being mercentile. These communities live at the border lands of India where they handled the trade between the Indian interior and the Middle East, they are what Venetians are to Europe.

    Low IQ Indian immigrants tend to go more to the Middle East and in the past upto some extent to Canada and Malaysia and even recently to the U.K. But they have brought with them many Third world pathologies which is not that common among U.S. Indians.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Lin
    I would say 'massive transfer of elite' is a misnomer. 'Massive brain drain' is more appropriate. As much as hindutwadis beating their chest of nationalism, the hindus simply don't have faith in their country. I heard as much as 40 -90% of the grads of best indian universities migrated to richer countries. Sure brain drain is a serious problem to many 3rd world countries. Whenever 3rd worlders brag about the success of their kins in developed countries, they're actually celebrating brain drain. India is a well known for their poor education and illiteracy. The whole country is so elitist and skewed. Here an indian ex-high court judge who wants a 'revolution':
    "..Our IT engineers are manning Silicon Valley in California, and American universities are full of our mathematics and science professors..."
    http://www.huffingtonpost.in/markandey-katju/reforms-will-not-do-india-any-good-only-a-revolution-will_a_22028052/
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  94. Thomm says:
    @Malla
    "But I also heard that the wages of the decent workers in India is rising quickly (like 25%/year), and the inept ones will eventually not be hired for any price (even $200 is expensive if the output is less than that)."

    Not for long (increase in wages) , those days seem to be over.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnoKHBbSQFA

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnDvXt5I_n4

    What used to happen was once you would get into management after some years of work experience, employees would be more into management work rather than software. And they would get a good fat salary. Earlier, during the good days, most companies needed/tolerated this bloated lot as all these management guys did was manage software novices (lots of politics there). But with changing times and with increases in automation, companies do not want to spend money on this middle management group. The new model, will be a lot of low paid software professionals with a streamlined management. Only those people doing proper coding jobs in new upcoming technology (they tend to be the cream of the graduates coming from institutes like IIT, BITS Pilani, Rourkee) will see professional growth in this industry. The future is more streamlined.

    "the inept ones will eventually not be hired for any price (even $200 is expensive if the output is less than that)."

    That is exactly what is happening. Thus mass layoffs in the IT industry coming.

    Interesting. That means that when IT jobs vanish in India, the better among those have a renewed reason to emigrate out of India to other countries (such as the US, Canada, and UK).

    The typical White Supremacist is so economically illiterate that he opposes both H1-Bs and outsourcing. He can never grasp that outsourcing to India was keeping quite a few Indians in India. Many Indians who were already in the US also went back home. But if jobs in India dry up, the pressure to mass-migrate to the US will rise. The human and the job will always find each other, whether the location is in the US or in India. White Trashionalists can never grasp this, due to their extreme economic illiteracy.

    Remember that the now-abused H1-B program was a reaction to a previous law that was equally ill-conceived. US immigration policy 1965-present for greencards was such that only 10,000 per country could come into the US. As a result, most small countries didn’t even use their quotas, while China and India had a huge waitlist, sort of like a hundred people trying to squeeze through a doorway at once. Furthermore, there was no permission for small countries to sell their unused quota to China or India. Similarly, the breakup of the USSR into 15 countries suddenly changed one quota into 15 quotas, and 15 times as much theoretical intake capacity.

    H1-B is a crude workaround around that, but is obviously very substandard and prone to abuse. H1-Bs are often Indian since there is no country that combines such a large population with such a large poverty delta relative to the US. Although a lot of H1-Bs are also Filipino nurses as well.

    If IT jobs in India are in decline, get ready for another wave leaving India, some of which will land in the US (but many more will go to Canada, Australia, and Singapore).

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  95. Malla says:
    @Thomm

    Brahmins are not the most richest. Obviously they are not. The richest will always be and are the merchant castes like the Bania, Gujju Marwari Sindhis. But these merchant castes are also part of the upper castes.
     
    That is what I mean. But I thought the merchant caste was Caste #3 out of 4.

    I think it was said that about 20% of Indians are high-IQ (thus accounting for all these castes), and the other 80% are low IQ and will never modernize. Is this your assessment as well?

    At any rate, I am more interested in the success of Indians here in the US. For whatever reason, they are #1 in household income (surpassing Jews).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_groups_in_the_United_States_by_household_income

    They appear to be well placed as the CEOs of tech companies (Google, Microsoft, Adobe, Sandisk, Arista, NetApp), and non-tech companies (PepsiCo, MasterCard, and in the past, USAirways and Citi). They seem to be deans of a lot of top business schools and engineering schools too. All this from a group that is just 1% of the US population.

    But these are obviously not the elite of India. The rich in India have no reason to leave. Plus, the Indians who are not in knowledge-based professions, but in low-tech business (hotels, gas stations, etc.), have also dominated those sectors.

    What gives?

    Is it just that India is so crowded and cutthroat that Indians find it easy to reach the top of this system? The 2nd Gen Indians (i.e. born here) seem very assimilated, and I see many of them marrying non-Indians (usually whites). They all go to top universities, even if their K-12 was here. They seem to get top jobs in Wall Street and Silicon Valley. Again, these are the 2nd-gen Indians with American accents.

    “The rich in India have no reason to leave.”

    Listen properly to this video and you will understand why many would like to leave.

    This Indian/Bangladeshi guy (basically a Bengali) talking about race. Listen from 1:02:05

    Read More
    • Replies: @Thomm

    This Indian/Bangladeshi guy (basically a Bengali) talking about race. Listen from 1:02:05
     
    I heard that part. It is an unfortunate scam, and is perhaps somewhat common.

    But many Indians who were already in the West went back. Plus, many who can leave don't. I have it on good authority that there was a time when almost all grads from IIT left India, but now only 30-40% leave.
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  96. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Alden
    So electrical work in the Mid East is done by on the job trained guys? I bet those countries have some kind of low, lower, lowest universal building code as well.

    For some reason there is nothing in Vegas for electricians. So there are a lot of travelers from there in the Bay Area and they all have work. Guys even come from Alaska. Be a traveler and come to the Bay Area and your brothers will welcome you. Rents are expensive, but put an ad on the bulletin board and maybe you can find a room to rent from a brother for less than $1,000 a month. There is an RV park somewhere in the city with hookups and everything. Lots of the travelers live in them.

    Actually, come after Christmas because all the conventions and trade shows are slowing down and people will be laid off from them starting the middle of December. If you do shows and have to travel between San Francisco and all over San Mateo and Santa Clara counties and to San Jose you get paid full wages for the travel time. Unions are good aren't they?

    The subway and light rail go pretty far out to the suburbs where rents are a lot cheaper.

    I doubt electrical work actually dried up north of Chicago. Probably the contractors just imported a bunch of illegal mexicans. Hope they get sued for the shoddy work and fire hazards.

    Thanks for the info. Yes the union has been good for me and the people I care about. Most of the manufacturing here is gone. The Nuke shut down, fossil fuel burner to shut down soon. Pharmaceuticals plants used to have 60-100 men on maintenance crews , that’s all gone. Housing gone bust. Yes there are some contractors using illegals here but mostly carpenters,drywall, laborers, etc. Not so much in the piping and mechanical trades. Take care

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  97. Thomm says:

    Ramchandra Guha, Indian author and historian says in this interview that never has the USA ever got a more elite group of immigrants as Indian immigrants. It was a transfer of elites from one country to another. Of course this is not true for everybody but in general that is true.

    I am not sure this true. Three points :

    1) When I was in grad school, the Indian undergrads from India were rich. They came to party for four years, had luxury cars as undergrads, and always returned back to India after graduation, to work in their family’s enterprise. But the grad students were poor (no car, most minimal housing, etc.), and stayed to work in the US. They had no family money in India, and it showed. The latter group were much more numerous than the former, and this is an elite university.

    2) Indians aren’t just the most successful ethnic group in the US, the also are in Canada, and are reaching the top in the UK. Plus, as of 2010, they have surged past the Chinese in Singapore.

    3) Many of the richest Indians in the US are not techie, finance, or medical types, but owners of hotels and gas stations. Sure, they can get a clan of 10 to all work in the same business, but none have very good educations. This groups is obviously not from the elite tier in India (many were in Africa before coming to the US).

    So while I think Indians who come to the US are certainly from the top 10% or top 20% in India, I doubt they are from the Top 0.1% who are wealthy or otherwise powerful in India. The children of those come to the US just for undergrad, and leave after that.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Punju
    Agree with all three points.

    USA, as well as other Wasp countries, provide the environment/societal structures that sharpen the skillsets as well as provide fantastic opportunities that takes best out of you if you are ambitious. It's like a factory that converts raw material into a pure and shiny finished product.

    India provided excellent raw material as many others did earlier. Many Indian leaders/commentators love to take credit for full value of the finished product that was gifted to the west. IMHO, that will be a huge stretch.
    , @Malla
    Yes, top 10% not top 0.1 percent. 10% of the population is 100 million people plus, that is a huge number.
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  98. Thomm says:
    @Malla
    "The rich in India have no reason to leave."

    Listen properly to this video and you will understand why many would like to leave.

    https://youtu.be/Ntosk72rQOw

    This Indian/Bangladeshi guy (basically a Bengali) talking about race. Listen from 1:02:05

    This Indian/Bangladeshi guy (basically a Bengali) talking about race. Listen from 1:02:05

    I heard that part. It is an unfortunate scam, and is perhaps somewhat common.

    But many Indians who were already in the West went back. Plus, many who can leave don’t. I have it on good authority that there was a time when almost all grads from IIT left India, but now only 30-40% leave.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Malla
    Such scams are nearly a daily occurrence here.
    Many come back because the Indian economy is booming recently and there are good opportunities for an entrepreneur. And there are many advantages of living in India as well as disadvantages. Their accumulated dollars or pounds go more here as prices in India is much much cheaper, it is cheap to own servants even as a Middle class person. For example for just Rs 800 a month which is about 10 U.S. dollars a month, a woman comes to our house and sweeps the floor, mops it, washes all the dishes and washes the cloths. This is perhaps true for countries like Nigeria or Pakistan too. No way you are getting that in the first world, you gotta wash your own cloths, clean your own house.
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  99. Punju says:
    @Thomm

    Ramchandra Guha, Indian author and historian says in this interview that never has the USA ever got a more elite group of immigrants as Indian immigrants. It was a transfer of elites from one country to another. Of course this is not true for everybody but in general that is true.
     
    I am not sure this true. Three points :

    1) When I was in grad school, the Indian undergrads from India were rich. They came to party for four years, had luxury cars as undergrads, and always returned back to India after graduation, to work in their family's enterprise. But the grad students were poor (no car, most minimal housing, etc.), and stayed to work in the US. They had no family money in India, and it showed. The latter group were much more numerous than the former, and this is an elite university.

    2) Indians aren't just the most successful ethnic group in the US, the also are in Canada, and are reaching the top in the UK. Plus, as of 2010, they have surged past the Chinese in Singapore.

    3) Many of the richest Indians in the US are not techie, finance, or medical types, but owners of hotels and gas stations. Sure, they can get a clan of 10 to all work in the same business, but none have very good educations. This groups is obviously not from the elite tier in India (many were in Africa before coming to the US).

    So while I think Indians who come to the US are certainly from the top 10% or top 20% in India, I doubt they are from the Top 0.1% who are wealthy or otherwise powerful in India. The children of those come to the US just for undergrad, and leave after that.

    Agree with all three points.

    USA, as well as other Wasp countries, provide the environment/societal structures that sharpen the skillsets as well as provide fantastic opportunities that takes best out of you if you are ambitious. It’s like a factory that converts raw material into a pure and shiny finished product.

    India provided excellent raw material as many others did earlier. Many Indian leaders/commentators love to take credit for full value of the finished product that was gifted to the west. IMHO, that will be a huge stretch.

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  100. Logan says:
    @Thomm

    Ford was smart enough to recognize that turnover was his biggest expense. Not only the direct cost of training new people, but also the cost of the poor quality control associated with the new people.
     
    Perhaps. But that is usually remedied with a 10% raise, not 300%.

    At least that argument is better than the 'he created a market' one.

    But if it was that straightforward, companies would still be doing it (including Ford Motor Co. of today, as well as Apple, Google, etc.).

    Ford raised his production line employees by about 100%, not 300%.

    I don’t claim to know Ford’s exact motives.

    But here is some discussion in his own words.

    http://www.saturdayeveningpost.com/2014/01/03/history/post-perspective/ford-doubles-minimum-wage.html

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  101. Malla says:
    @Thomm

    This Indian/Bangladeshi guy (basically a Bengali) talking about race. Listen from 1:02:05
     
    I heard that part. It is an unfortunate scam, and is perhaps somewhat common.

    But many Indians who were already in the West went back. Plus, many who can leave don't. I have it on good authority that there was a time when almost all grads from IIT left India, but now only 30-40% leave.

    Such scams are nearly a daily occurrence here.
    Many come back because the Indian economy is booming recently and there are good opportunities for an entrepreneur. And there are many advantages of living in India as well as disadvantages. Their accumulated dollars or pounds go more here as prices in India is much much cheaper, it is cheap to own servants even as a Middle class person. For example for just Rs 800 a month which is about 10 U.S. dollars a month, a woman comes to our house and sweeps the floor, mops it, washes all the dishes and washes the cloths. This is perhaps true for countries like Nigeria or Pakistan too. No way you are getting that in the first world, you gotta wash your own cloths, clean your own house.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    What is all this back and forth shit? You think corporate America takes to the wing like a gypsy with paper credentials and basic toiletries?

    We have light and cables thus the help desk in the Phillipines or the programmers in Hyderabad. What are H1-Bs really for? Boosting real estate values? We ready to toss our flawed assumptions about skills or ability yet?

    Capital flows completely unimpeded. Borders, walls and nationalism are paradoxially used by borderless, wall free encrypted corporate tyranny as a check on the aspirations of the lil'fish forced to constantly swim about for their own survival. Hapless minnows everywhere: "Why I'll simply move to where the work is!" Good slaves know they better keep running.
    , @Lin
    "..Many come back because the Indian economy is booming recently and there are good opportunities for an entrepreneur..."
    "..Their accumulated dollars or pounds go more here as prices in India is much much cheaper.."
    "..For example for just Rs 800 a month which is about 10 U.S. dollars a month, a woman comes to our house and sweeps the floor, mops it, washes all the dishes and washes the cloths.."
    Three things:
    1)Those indians return to india not exactly because of the blooming economy there. It has to do with employment politics in countries like US and stricter immigration. Big layoff in india anticipated:
    http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/it-to-layoff-up-to-2-lakh-engineers-annually-for-next-3-yrs/1/953667.html
    1)It's very sad that low caste women even in bigger indian cities make so little; even less than I thought.
    3)PPPee or 'purchasing power parity' GDP is basically a ploy to make 3rd worlders feel less poor.
    If one pays so little for domestic servants, it means it matters little to the consumption pattern of the indian elite; how come laptop computer in india are on average >20% more expensive than those in US? Lets face the fact that developed countries, particularly US, have lower bulk food(eg. flour, corn..)production cost than countries like India due to technology and mechanisaton(or actually agriculture in India and China are more heavily subsidized than US), and the poorer the people, the bigger their income share spent on food. BigMac index also doesn't apply because the average Indians can't afford to eat at McDonald on a regular basis.
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  102. Malla says:
    @Thomm

    Ramchandra Guha, Indian author and historian says in this interview that never has the USA ever got a more elite group of immigrants as Indian immigrants. It was a transfer of elites from one country to another. Of course this is not true for everybody but in general that is true.
     
    I am not sure this true. Three points :

    1) When I was in grad school, the Indian undergrads from India were rich. They came to party for four years, had luxury cars as undergrads, and always returned back to India after graduation, to work in their family's enterprise. But the grad students were poor (no car, most minimal housing, etc.), and stayed to work in the US. They had no family money in India, and it showed. The latter group were much more numerous than the former, and this is an elite university.

    2) Indians aren't just the most successful ethnic group in the US, the also are in Canada, and are reaching the top in the UK. Plus, as of 2010, they have surged past the Chinese in Singapore.

    3) Many of the richest Indians in the US are not techie, finance, or medical types, but owners of hotels and gas stations. Sure, they can get a clan of 10 to all work in the same business, but none have very good educations. This groups is obviously not from the elite tier in India (many were in Africa before coming to the US).

    So while I think Indians who come to the US are certainly from the top 10% or top 20% in India, I doubt they are from the Top 0.1% who are wealthy or otherwise powerful in India. The children of those come to the US just for undergrad, and leave after that.

    Yes, top 10% not top 0.1 percent. 10% of the population is 100 million people plus, that is a huge number.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Thomm
    Indeed. If we count all of South Asia, that is in fact 175M people.
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  103. Thomm says:
    @Malla
    Yes, top 10% not top 0.1 percent. 10% of the population is 100 million people plus, that is a huge number.

    Indeed. If we count all of South Asia, that is in fact 175M people.

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  104. Malla says:
    @Thomm

    They will tell their client that they can do the job in $600 and thus the client saves $400 per employee. The Indian company will claim to the client that it pays the Indian employee $ 500 but in reality would pay $200 and pocket the rest of the money. This is done for all the employees in the project. But since $200 is good money in India the Indian employee is happy, the stupid American client company is happy (but ripped off), the Indian outsourcing company is VERY happy, the American employee is fucked.
     
    This is interesting. But what scale does this happen on? There are only 125,000 new H1-Bs approved each year, so for all the hype, it is relatively small in a country of 325M. I doubt it has truly suppressed the wages of the entire US tech industry (tons of $150K jobs are still going unfilled in Silicon Valley).

    Indian IT workers in India are not H1-B, since they are in their own country (a lot of White Nationalist-Leftists don't know the different between 'H1-B' and 'outsourcing to India').

    But I also heard that the wages of the decent workers in India is rising quickly (like 25%/year), and the inept ones will eventually not be hired for any price (even $200 is expensive if the output is less than that).

    So what happens?

    One also wonders why Russia, with its software expertise, didn't take this business on the world scale. India exports $100B/year of software. One would think that Russia would have been able to secure that business.

    “One also wonders why Russia, with its software expertise, didn’t take this business on the world scale. India exports $100B/year of software. One would think that Russia would have been able to secure that business.”

    Well it is already happening

    http://www.computerweekly.com/blog/Investigating-Outsourcing/Is-Eastern-Europe-Indias-biggest-threat-for-IT-outsourcing

    https://www.gadgetsnow.com/tech-news/these-are-the-biggest-challenges-facing-indian-it-industry-as-per-mid-year-economic-survey/articleshow/60021196.cms

    https://qarea.com/articles/india-vs-eastern-europe-where-outsource-it

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    • Replies: @Thomm

    Well it is already happening
     
    Well, I saw similar headlines 10 years ago. As they say, Russia has great potential, and always will (same goes for EE by extension). I would say the outcome is TBD.

    Question :

    What is your prediction for India's GDP growth trend? They have averaged 6% since the mid-1980s (they tend to over-exaggerate some 1991 event which didn't really increase the trendline from what it already was since the mid-80s, and they also over-exaggerate the few years of 8%+ that happened in the 2000s). But what is their future trajectory?

    Will they sustain 6% on average for 20 more years? Or will they slam down to a 4%/year status quo like Indonesia and Thailand before them?

    China seems to be the only country that can keep going at a high rate past any and all predictions of a plateauing or the 'law of large numbers'.

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  105. Thomm says:
    @Malla
    "One also wonders why Russia, with its software expertise, didn’t take this business on the world scale. India exports $100B/year of software. One would think that Russia would have been able to secure that business."

    Well it is already happening

    http://www.computerweekly.com/blog/Investigating-Outsourcing/Is-Eastern-Europe-Indias-biggest-threat-for-IT-outsourcing

    https://www.gadgetsnow.com/tech-news/these-are-the-biggest-challenges-facing-indian-it-industry-as-per-mid-year-economic-survey/articleshow/60021196.cms

    https://qarea.com/articles/india-vs-eastern-europe-where-outsource-it

    Well it is already happening

    Well, I saw similar headlines 10 years ago. As they say, Russia has great potential, and always will (same goes for EE by extension). I would say the outcome is TBD.

    Question :

    What is your prediction for India’s GDP growth trend? They have averaged 6% since the mid-1980s (they tend to over-exaggerate some 1991 event which didn’t really increase the trendline from what it already was since the mid-80s, and they also over-exaggerate the few years of 8%+ that happened in the 2000s). But what is their future trajectory?

    Will they sustain 6% on average for 20 more years? Or will they slam down to a 4%/year status quo like Indonesia and Thailand before them?

    China seems to be the only country that can keep going at a high rate past any and all predictions of a plateauing or the ‘law of large numbers’.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Malla
    What is your prediction for India’s GDP growth trend?

    It think it is good but mostly because we are coming from a very low base. However, in India there is a huge market/ workforce to develop and exploit, a lot of roads to be built. Indeed we are where the USA was a century ago. So yes there will be growth for a long time.

    "Will they sustain 6% on average for 20 more years? Or will they slam down to a 4%/year status quo like Indonesia and Thailand before them?"

    I some how believe there will be a slam but not now. India will eventually go the way of Thailand or Indonesia, I think. But there is a lot of growth for the foreseeable future. There is just too much potential to be exploited.

    As far as per capita income is concerned, I do not see India coming even close to first world countries like Japan or Germany. However there is a lot of scope for growth from what we have now. Indeed the standard of living in cities have gone up quite a lot in the last 2 decades and I think it will keep on going up for some decades. Will it reach the first world, not likely but if we can reach a middle income level, it will be great. However because of the population size, it's over all economy will be huge (it already is quite respectable) and those who can tap into it can make fortunes. Like say the Ambanis who are among of the richest people on Earth.

    Lin has written how our economy/ growth is skewed. That is true. There is massive inequality. We have gone more towards services like IT and Pharma rather than core manufacturing unlike China. Thus only a small part of the population has seen the most benefit of this economic growth. A large population below them have also gained because of the trickle down of the wealth, but there is massive inequality. Do not mistake, we have a decent manufacturing sector, I mean we make most of our cars and they are pretty decent. A chunk of the labour force are quite competent. But there is a huge mass of low productive labour for each one of them. But we should have attempted to go the China way of mass manufacturing as that would have pulled a large population out of poverty. Now I think the window is closing due to increasing automation.
    I do not think India is the next China, the window is closing fast.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdVYVSdDAXs


    The Indian subcontinent has traditionally always has been the place where some of the richest and poorest people of the world have lived together.Ancient India or Mughal India, India has been a land of some of the richest merchants and kings and very poor peasants. Even in British India, rich Indians like the royal families and businessmen like the Tatas could send their kids to top British schools like Eton which was out of bounds for the average British fishmonger. However the average British fishmonger has/had a much better standard of living than the average Indian fishmonger. This was the case even before the British East India company was formed. I think that tradition of inequality still continues and will continue in the future, I believe.

    One more thing which is of concern is the lack of innovation in the country. Brain drain could be one of the many reasons.

    http://www.dnaindia.com/money/report-no-invention-earth-shaking-idea-from-india-in-60-years-narayan-murthy-2105080

    Narayan Murthy is the founder of the mega Indian IT giant Infosys.

    http://www.livemint.com/Politics/TaFCHqsfMOuYIZ9h6nDHIL/India-remains-a-laggard-in-innovation-China-overtakes-US.html

    http://indiaschinablog.blogspot.in/2016/01/india-vs-china-innovation-patents.html

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  106. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Malla
    Such scams are nearly a daily occurrence here.
    Many come back because the Indian economy is booming recently and there are good opportunities for an entrepreneur. And there are many advantages of living in India as well as disadvantages. Their accumulated dollars or pounds go more here as prices in India is much much cheaper, it is cheap to own servants even as a Middle class person. For example for just Rs 800 a month which is about 10 U.S. dollars a month, a woman comes to our house and sweeps the floor, mops it, washes all the dishes and washes the cloths. This is perhaps true for countries like Nigeria or Pakistan too. No way you are getting that in the first world, you gotta wash your own cloths, clean your own house.

    What is all this back and forth shit? You think corporate America takes to the wing like a gypsy with paper credentials and basic toiletries?

    We have light and cables thus the help desk in the Phillipines or the programmers in Hyderabad. What are H1-Bs really for? Boosting real estate values? We ready to toss our flawed assumptions about skills or ability yet?

    Capital flows completely unimpeded. Borders, walls and nationalism are paradoxially used by borderless, wall free encrypted corporate tyranny as a check on the aspirations of the lil’fish forced to constantly swim about for their own survival. Hapless minnows everywhere: “Why I’ll simply move to where the work is!” Good slaves know they better keep running.

    Read More
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  107. Lin says:
    @Malla
    "But these are obviously not the elite of India. The rich in India have no reason to leave. Plus, the Indians who are not in knowledge-based professions, but in low-tech business (hotels, gas stations, etc.), have also dominated those sectors."

    Most of the Indians who have gone to the USA and Great Britain are indeed the elites of India. Not the entire elite group as some have remained to be bureaucrats in the government and entrepreneurs. We have a billion plus population, remember.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y73pSh57pWE

    Check out from 40:38 minutes
    Ramchandra Guha, Indian author and historian says in this interview that never has the USA ever got a more elite group of immigrants as Indian immigrants. It was a transfer of elites from one country to another. Of course this is not true for everybody but in general that is true.

    The rich have reason to leave as the lifestyle in first world countries is better. Corruption, pollution, excessive competition etc.... there are many reasons why Indian elites would love to go to the first world. As far as low tech businesses, most of them Indians are from mercentile backgrounds, most of them are Gujratis and Sindhis who have a long tradition of being mercentile. These communities live at the border lands of India where they handled the trade between the Indian interior and the Middle East, they are what Venetians are to Europe.

    Low IQ Indian immigrants tend to go more to the Middle East and in the past upto some extent to Canada and Malaysia and even recently to the U.K. But they have brought with them many Third world pathologies which is not that common among U.S. Indians.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkTgg5pbPHs

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDzj57l59A8

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAEJwbEvyaM

    I would say ‘massive transfer of elite’ is a misnomer. ‘Massive brain drain’ is more appropriate. As much as hindutwadis beating their chest of nationalism, the hindus simply don’t have faith in their country. I heard as much as 40 -90% of the grads of best indian universities migrated to richer countries. Sure brain drain is a serious problem to many 3rd world countries. Whenever 3rd worlders brag about the success of their kins in developed countries, they’re actually celebrating brain drain. India is a well known for their poor education and illiteracy. The whole country is so elitist and skewed. Here an indian ex-high court judge who wants a ‘revolution’:
    “..Our IT engineers are manning Silicon Valley in California, and American universities are full of our mathematics and science professors…”

    http://www.huffingtonpost.in/markandey-katju/reforms-will-not-do-india-any-good-only-a-revolution-will_a_22028052/

    Read More
    • Replies: @Malla
    Yes that is true, massive brain drain but is that not a reason why the Indian or Chinese or Nigerian nationalists will support the White nationalists of the West. If the post 1965 noN Euro population are forced to go back to their source nations as well as the non White non Native populations of Europe, it will be a win win to both. The Euros will get the homogeneous nations they once had and what they desire which was taken away from then without their approval and we will get back out brain talent and labour. If the intelligent high IQ Nigerian is forced to work in Nigeria, it is a win for Nigeria.


    "http://www.huffingtonpost.in/markandey-katju/reforms-will-not-do-india-any-good-only-a-revolution-will_a_22028052/"

    Mr. Markandey Katju was the Chief Justice of India (Top judiciary position of Republic of India) and is a brilliant man. He has been complaining about extreme corruption in the judiciary and among the politicians. He also complains about increase in casteism, inter ethnic nepotism and voting politicians based only on their background and not performance by the populations. He says India is still a feudal society, and we need to evolve ahead. I agree with him completely, but I somehow feel his comparisons of European nations of the 17th centuries with India is not completely right. India is a multi racial/multicultural matrix and it shares some of the problems which come with it, lack of trust and tragedy of the commons. The best way to overcome this problem is more westernization (enlightenment principles) without destroying some of the good traditions of Indian culture. This will reduce the problems associated with multiculturalism/multiracialism to some extent if not eliminate them to Polish or Japanese levels. However Indians and other subcontinentals lately are all regressing back except a tiny minority of Convent educated elites.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3mDkqU_sck

    Check from say 13:30

    Democracy tends to becomes meaningless in multicultural/ multiracial societies as every group will want their part of the common pie. Even mass intermarriage does not remove this.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBKBjju5LFA

    Check from 14:16
    He rightly claims that the system is on the brink of collapse.

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  108. Lin says:
    @Malla
    Such scams are nearly a daily occurrence here.
    Many come back because the Indian economy is booming recently and there are good opportunities for an entrepreneur. And there are many advantages of living in India as well as disadvantages. Their accumulated dollars or pounds go more here as prices in India is much much cheaper, it is cheap to own servants even as a Middle class person. For example for just Rs 800 a month which is about 10 U.S. dollars a month, a woman comes to our house and sweeps the floor, mops it, washes all the dishes and washes the cloths. This is perhaps true for countries like Nigeria or Pakistan too. No way you are getting that in the first world, you gotta wash your own cloths, clean your own house.

    “..Many come back because the Indian economy is booming recently and there are good opportunities for an entrepreneur…”
    “..Their accumulated dollars or pounds go more here as prices in India is much much cheaper..”
    “..For example for just Rs 800 a month which is about 10 U.S. dollars a month, a woman comes to our house and sweeps the floor, mops it, washes all the dishes and washes the cloths..”
    Three things:
    1)Those indians return to india not exactly because of the blooming economy there. It has to do with employment politics in countries like US and stricter immigration. Big layoff in india anticipated:

    http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/it-to-layoff-up-to-2-lakh-engineers-annually-for-next-3-yrs/1/953667.html

    1)It’s very sad that low caste women even in bigger indian cities make so little; even less than I thought.
    3)PPPee or ‘purchasing power parity’ GDP is basically a ploy to make 3rd worlders feel less poor.
    If one pays so little for domestic servants, it means it matters little to the consumption pattern of the indian elite; how come laptop computer in india are on average >20% more expensive than those in US? Lets face the fact that developed countries, particularly US, have lower bulk food(eg. flour, corn..)production cost than countries like India due to technology and mechanisaton(or actually agriculture in India and China are more heavily subsidized than US), and the poorer the people, the bigger their income share spent on food. BigMac index also doesn’t apply because the average Indians can’t afford to eat at McDonald on a regular basis.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Malla
    "Those indians return to india not exactly because of the blooming economy there. It has to do with employment politics in countries like US and stricter immigration. Big layoff in india anticipated:

    http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/it-to-layoff-up-to-2-lakh-engineers-annually-for-next-3-yrs/1/953667.html"

    I agree with everything you say in the rest of the post except that when I mean Indians returning, I mean Indians who have lived for some time in some first world country, who coming back to India can expect a higher position in the industry than those positions which are about to be axed. So the axing on jobs mostly will not affect returnees but that depends on person to person. Many returnees become entrepreneurs. There are some parts of the economy which are booming and there is a lot of money to be made. Many returnees make a lot of money in the Indian market as they bring in capital and skills and they know future trends, as India is a bit behind than the first world. Sometimes new ideas unique to Indian requirements can lead to a new industry.

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  109. @Malla
    I would say as an Indian myself, the success of Indians in the west has more to do with cunningness and nepotism rather than IQ. Not that high IQ Indians do not exist, of course we exist. Some of my best friends were high IQ Indians who went to Stanford and MIT but the large masses of Indians are low IQ and low productive populations.
    We Indians come from a survivalist culture and we are used to cunning, cheating, office politics and nepotism than most White people. Indeed many of the Indians friends consider Whites naive and childish in their trustfulness. We have this concept called 'jugaad' which means getting things done using contacts and verbal skills. But I think that the masses of Indians/South Asians tend to be low IQ, low productivity population. What has happened is most of high IQ Indians who form a small part of out billion plus population have already been absorbed by industry and the left over masses are low IQ populations and hence the Indians Industry is crying about the quality of workforce they are getting now. My Dad runs a manufacturing company, so does my uncle and I have been in both. Man, running a company with Indian labour is quite a task. Low IQ, laziness, not working unless told, ripping off, stealing, low productivity, being argumentative. It is hell. I have been to countries of the west and have lived for some years in the U.K. I would anyday take White British labour over Indian labour. British workers are much more smarter, more honest, more hardworking and one British worker would have the productivity of four Indians workers but British workers are just too expensive and most would not like to live here. Se we are stuck with crappy low IQ Indian workers.
    To explain what we face, I would like you to check this video.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ntosk72rQOw

    This Indian/Bangladeshi guy (basically a Bengali) talking about race. Listen from 1:02:05
    What he describes is very common when dealing with South Asian desi labour. What he describes we face all the time. And trust me, the educated management here is not much better than the labour.

    One thing that’s important to note and frequently missed is that value-creation is probably not the best way to make a profit in Silicon Valley. Due to the way information spreads and expectations work, from an individual perspective, your best options for making a fortune really do seem to be:

    1) Have a startup which gets heavily hyped. Get bought out, and probably screw the rest of your employees. Attrition rates among companies which have been purchased are horrific, and in my experience, typically there’s no ownership sharing. So essentially the top partners make it out wealthy, everyone else gets laid off.

    2) Be behind a large and well-resourced company. Buy out companies which have accumulated client lists for cheap, and then essentially hold them hostage due to restrictive contracts or simply because of inertia in the software.

    As such, politics and to a large extent, being heartless is advantageous and value creation is only a secondary goal. This is probably not collectively helpful, however and you can notice it in issues with actual software – Excel doesn’t really get better, for example.

    Libertarians envision a world with a lot more pure competition and a lot less corruption than there is. This is not my experience in SV.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Great post. This has always been obvious
    to consumers. Large appliances or cars are carefully engineered to fail more than ever. Software is carefully engineered but intended for obsolescence. I suspect this is a large source of unhappiness for the average hillbilly, regardless of what Larry Summers once implied about technology and poverty.

    SV has remarkable marketing. Better, improved, more functionality, and innovation sometimes. Gatekeeping then requires an understanding of customers and employees. Libertarians should consider the importance of people continually lining up to buy shit when it breaks, wears out or is upgraded. Seems to me competition is a marketing term for the consumer (or the employee) real competition would collapse the economy into something worse. Think of the investments SV has made to secure their property rights. That ain't innovation.
    , @Malla
    I could not have put this better. Very true. The Capitalist model of the Anglo world is rubbish, say as compared to what they have in Germany where a long term relation is built between employer and employees. Thus in times of difficulty, employers retain employees with less pay and working hours instead of firing them. This way the company can survive the storm and the employees can at least survive instead of being on the road looking for a job or being on welfare. And then the times are good, the employer does not have to go looking for staff, they already have an experienced skilled staff working in the company all along.
    My point is labour and capital must not be enemies of each other and must look out for each other as much as they can. But a policy like this is only possible in very homogeneous countries like what Sweden was before immigration. In India, this is impossible on a large scale, will never happen in 10000 years.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uad1Ma5DSMA
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  110. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Daniel Chieh
    One thing that's important to note and frequently missed is that value-creation is probably not the best way to make a profit in Silicon Valley. Due to the way information spreads and expectations work, from an individual perspective, your best options for making a fortune really do seem to be:

    1) Have a startup which gets heavily hyped. Get bought out, and probably screw the rest of your employees. Attrition rates among companies which have been purchased are horrific, and in my experience, typically there's no ownership sharing. So essentially the top partners make it out wealthy, everyone else gets laid off.

    2) Be behind a large and well-resourced company. Buy out companies which have accumulated client lists for cheap, and then essentially hold them hostage due to restrictive contracts or simply because of inertia in the software.

    As such, politics and to a large extent, being heartless is advantageous and value creation is only a secondary goal. This is probably not collectively helpful, however and you can notice it in issues with actual software - Excel doesn't really get better, for example.

    Libertarians envision a world with a lot more pure competition and a lot less corruption than there is. This is not my experience in SV.

    Great post. This has always been obvious
    to consumers. Large appliances or cars are carefully engineered to fail more than ever. Software is carefully engineered but intended for obsolescence. I suspect this is a large source of unhappiness for the average hillbilly, regardless of what Larry Summers once implied about technology and poverty.

    SV has remarkable marketing. Better, improved, more functionality, and innovation sometimes. Gatekeeping then requires an understanding of customers and employees. Libertarians should consider the importance of people continually lining up to buy shit when it breaks, wears out or is upgraded. Seems to me competition is a marketing term for the consumer (or the employee) real competition would collapse the economy into something worse. Think of the investments SV has made to secure their property rights. That ain’t innovation.

    Read More
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  111. KenH says:
    @Thomm

    But you’re too dense to understand that.
     
    Don't project your ignorance and leftism onto others. The US had high manufacturing wages from 1946-73 only because the US was the only country that could manufacture advanced goods and export them. There was no international competition from Japan, Germany, etc. The correction of this wage to the current levels is to be expected once the countries formerly devastated in WW2 fully catch up.

    You are hilariously ignorant, except that is to be expected from a WN Wigger (with your Negro IQ).


    Ford, Boeing, John Deere and similar enterprises paying their employees living wages and financially incentivizing their top employees
     
    Incentives are not the same thing as a socialist 'living wage' you stupid faggot.

    Silicon Valley pays stock options and RSUs to employees. They are more advanced in the idea of incentives than others.


    Oh yeah, from “great lakes area” which outs you as some airhead troll who knows nothing about America.
     
    err...it outs YOU as a Negro-IQ White Trashionalist who knows nothing about America. States on the Great Lakes call themselves that.

    Great Lakes Region :
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Lakes_region

    But it is good to see you are still butthurt about the fact that I remind you how successful whites diligently exclude waste matter like you from polite society. We know that the bottom 10% (that you represent) is just garbage that nature wants to weed out of the gene pool.

    Heh heh heh heh


    If you were honest you would admit that these groups you so admire have benefitted from affirmative action
     
    Asians don't get affirmative action, your retarded wigger. This has been discussed at length by many authors here at Unz. You are obviously illiterate if you haven't learned even that yet.

    But keep associating your White Trashionalism with socialism. I *want* more people to see howit is a leftist socialist ideology, favored only by WN wiggers and bluehaired feminists.

    Again.... heh heh heh heh

    Don’t project your ignorance and leftism onto others. The US had high manufacturing wages from 1946-73 only because the US was the only country that could manufacture advanced goods and export them. There was no international competition from Japan, Germany, etc.

    Wrong. The bottom didn’t fall out in 1973. The U.S. had relatively high manufacturing wages until the early 90′s when NAFTA passed and companies began moving manufacturing plants to Mexico. Bill Clinton granting MFN to China delivered the coup de grace with an increasing number of companies gaming the system by relocating manufacturing to China for the slave labor and low regulatory burden then paying the paltry import duty to export products back to the U.S and pocket the difference.

    The U.S. rebuilt the German and Japanese economies following WWII. Japanese and German industry does churn out high quality products, but they also receive subsidies from their governments which gives them a comparative advantage over U.S. industry since it defrays R&D and other costs like employee training. And both nations protect their markets with import tariffs and other duties unlike the U.S.

    You have little inkling of what your talking about because there’s nothing but air in your undersized cranium. It’s obvious you don’t even possess a negro IQ.

    Incentives are not the same thing as a socialist ‘living wage’ you stupid faggot.

    So incentives like stock options and RSU’s are the epitome of free market principles but private industry paying good wages to its lower level employees who don’t qualify for those benefits is “socialism”? This is an ignorant and moronic claim.

    Would it make you feel better if Ford paid union and non-management employees $5/hr but gave them RSU’s?

    err…it outs YOU as a Negro-IQ White Trashionalist who knows nothing about America. States on the Great Lakes call themselves that.

    No, dork. As I and others told you residents of the Great Lakes Region don’t typically say they live in “the great lakes area” like you did no more than people in Biloxi, MS say they live in “the gulf of Mexico area.” You’re just some internet dork who thinks a pocket atlas makes you an expert on U.S. geography.

    Asians don’t get affirmative action, your retarded wigger. This has been discussed at length by many authors here at Unz.

    Yes they do, goober. Asian advocacy organizations like AAJC strongly support it and admit that it benefits them. That an infitestimal number of Asian students have faced discrimination in applying to Ivy League schools doesn’t change this fact especially when they’re overrepresented by 350%.

    https://advancingjustice-aajc.org/publication/affirmative-action-facts

    Many large and medium sized companies extend AA in hiring and promotions to every group except white males.

    If America ever starts discriminating in favor of its founding stock causing Indian group incomes decline below that of whites will you fall out of love with them? A white guy (or so you claim) with a fetish for Indians makes you one weird dude. It’s no wonder you repulse women no matter how much cologne you splash on.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Thomm

    he U.S. had relatively high manufacturing wages until the early 90′s when NAFTA passed and companies began moving manufacturing plants to Mexico. Bill Clinton granting MFN to China delivered the coup de grace
     
    According to this chart, manufacturing jobs as a percentage of the workforce went straight down after 1960, and around 1975 it dipped below 20%, which is generally considered the tipping point. At any rate, it was in decline well before 1994.

    http://www.usfunds.com/media/images/investor-alert/_2016/2016-12-16/COMM-Manufacturing-Jobs-Percentage-Total-US-Workforce-12162016-LG.png

    WN Wiggers don't know how to read graphs and charts, so I suspect you will ignore this data.

    but private industry paying good wages to its lower level employees who don’t qualify for those benefits is “socialism”?
     
    Yes. You want to be paid more than you produce. In fact, you know you will never rise to the level of employer or business-owner (in which case this would come out of your pocket), which is why you advocate this moocher policy. Untalented, lazy people are leftists. Wiggers and blacks like welfare.


    As I and others told you residents of the Great Lakes Region don’t typically say they live in “the great lakes area”
     
    I said 'Great Lakes Region' you stupid faggot. That is what people from there say, as even semi-literate people know. I could even narrow it down and say that I am from one of the big cities on one the Great Lakes, but a low-IQ Wigger like you would still not be able to figure out which cities that refers to.

    Yes they do, goober. That an infitestimal number of Asian students have faced discrimination in applying to Ivy League schools doesn’t change this fact especially when they’re overrepresented by 350%.

     

    You just get stupider with each paragraph. It is a well-known fact that Asians do not get AA, as many articles right here on Unz.com have pointed out (from Steve Sailer, Ron Unz, and many others). They have 350% representation because they outperform academically on all levels. If they were not restricted, they would be at 600%.

    If you actually read some of the articles here at Unz.com, you wouldn't embarrass yourself with such a display of ignorance.

    Anyway, Asians are the least of your worries, given that you are not even cognitively competitive with blacks. White Trashionalists have Negro IQs, and you appear to be on the lower end of even your faggotty group.

    Heh heh heh heh..... destroying WN wiggers is fun.
    , @anarchyst
    Let's not forget that Europe is under the "defense umbrella" provided by the USA. This frees up their "tax revenue" to be used for their expansive social programs...
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  112. Thomm says:
    @KenH

    Don’t project your ignorance and leftism onto others. The US had high manufacturing wages from 1946-73 only because the US was the only country that could manufacture advanced goods and export them. There was no international competition from Japan, Germany, etc.
     
    Wrong. The bottom didn't fall out in 1973. The U.S. had relatively high manufacturing wages until the early 90's when NAFTA passed and companies began moving manufacturing plants to Mexico. Bill Clinton granting MFN to China delivered the coup de grace with an increasing number of companies gaming the system by relocating manufacturing to China for the slave labor and low regulatory burden then paying the paltry import duty to export products back to the U.S and pocket the difference.

    The U.S. rebuilt the German and Japanese economies following WWII. Japanese and German industry does churn out high quality products, but they also receive subsidies from their governments which gives them a comparative advantage over U.S. industry since it defrays R&D and other costs like employee training. And both nations protect their markets with import tariffs and other duties unlike the U.S.

    You have little inkling of what your talking about because there's nothing but air in your undersized cranium. It's obvious you don't even possess a negro IQ.


    Incentives are not the same thing as a socialist ‘living wage’ you stupid faggot.
     
    So incentives like stock options and RSU's are the epitome of free market principles but private industry paying good wages to its lower level employees who don't qualify for those benefits is "socialism"? This is an ignorant and moronic claim.

    Would it make you feel better if Ford paid union and non-management employees $5/hr but gave them RSU's?


    err…it outs YOU as a Negro-IQ White Trashionalist who knows nothing about America. States on the Great Lakes call themselves that.
     
    No, dork. As I and others told you residents of the Great Lakes Region don't typically say they live in "the great lakes area" like you did no more than people in Biloxi, MS say they live in "the gulf of Mexico area." You're just some internet dork who thinks a pocket atlas makes you an expert on U.S. geography.

    Asians don’t get affirmative action, your retarded wigger. This has been discussed at length by many authors here at Unz.
     
    Yes they do, goober. Asian advocacy organizations like AAJC strongly support it and admit that it benefits them. That an infitestimal number of Asian students have faced discrimination in applying to Ivy League schools doesn't change this fact especially when they're overrepresented by 350%.
    https://advancingjustice-aajc.org/publication/affirmative-action-facts
    Many large and medium sized companies extend AA in hiring and promotions to every group except white males.

    If America ever starts discriminating in favor of its founding stock causing Indian group incomes decline below that of whites will you fall out of love with them? A white guy (or so you claim) with a fetish for Indians makes you one weird dude. It's no wonder you repulse women no matter how much cologne you splash on.

    he U.S. had relatively high manufacturing wages until the early 90′s when NAFTA passed and companies began moving manufacturing plants to Mexico. Bill Clinton granting MFN to China delivered the coup de grace

    According to this chart, manufacturing jobs as a percentage of the workforce went straight down after 1960, and around 1975 it dipped below 20%, which is generally considered the tipping point. At any rate, it was in decline well before 1994.

    WN Wiggers don’t know how to read graphs and charts, so I suspect you will ignore this data.

    but private industry paying good wages to its lower level employees who don’t qualify for those benefits is “socialism”?

    Yes. You want to be paid more than you produce. In fact, you know you will never rise to the level of employer or business-owner (in which case this would come out of your pocket), which is why you advocate this moocher policy. Untalented, lazy people are leftists. Wiggers and blacks like welfare.

    As I and others told you residents of the Great Lakes Region don’t typically say they live in “the great lakes area”

    I said ‘Great Lakes Region’ you stupid faggot. That is what people from there say, as even semi-literate people know. I could even narrow it down and say that I am from one of the big cities on one the Great Lakes, but a low-IQ Wigger like you would still not be able to figure out which cities that refers to.

    Yes they do, goober. That an infitestimal number of Asian students have faced discrimination in applying to Ivy League schools doesn’t change this fact especially when they’re overrepresented by 350%.

    You just get stupider with each paragraph. It is a well-known fact that Asians do not get AA, as many articles right here on Unz.com have pointed out (from Steve Sailer, Ron Unz, and many others). They have 350% representation because they outperform academically on all levels. If they were not restricted, they would be at 600%.

    If you actually read some of the articles here at Unz.com, you wouldn’t embarrass yourself with such a display of ignorance.

    Anyway, Asians are the least of your worries, given that you are not even cognitively competitive with blacks. White Trashionalists have Negro IQs, and you appear to be on the lower end of even your faggotty group.

    Heh heh heh heh….. destroying WN wiggers is fun.

    Read More
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  113. anarchyst says:
    @KenH

    Don’t project your ignorance and leftism onto others. The US had high manufacturing wages from 1946-73 only because the US was the only country that could manufacture advanced goods and export them. There was no international competition from Japan, Germany, etc.
     
    Wrong. The bottom didn't fall out in 1973. The U.S. had relatively high manufacturing wages until the early 90's when NAFTA passed and companies began moving manufacturing plants to Mexico. Bill Clinton granting MFN to China delivered the coup de grace with an increasing number of companies gaming the system by relocating manufacturing to China for the slave labor and low regulatory burden then paying the paltry import duty to export products back to the U.S and pocket the difference.

    The U.S. rebuilt the German and Japanese economies following WWII. Japanese and German industry does churn out high quality products, but they also receive subsidies from their governments which gives them a comparative advantage over U.S. industry since it defrays R&D and other costs like employee training. And both nations protect their markets with import tariffs and other duties unlike the U.S.

    You have little inkling of what your talking about because there's nothing but air in your undersized cranium. It's obvious you don't even possess a negro IQ.


    Incentives are not the same thing as a socialist ‘living wage’ you stupid faggot.
     
    So incentives like stock options and RSU's are the epitome of free market principles but private industry paying good wages to its lower level employees who don't qualify for those benefits is "socialism"? This is an ignorant and moronic claim.

    Would it make you feel better if Ford paid union and non-management employees $5/hr but gave them RSU's?


    err…it outs YOU as a Negro-IQ White Trashionalist who knows nothing about America. States on the Great Lakes call themselves that.
     
    No, dork. As I and others told you residents of the Great Lakes Region don't typically say they live in "the great lakes area" like you did no more than people in Biloxi, MS say they live in "the gulf of Mexico area." You're just some internet dork who thinks a pocket atlas makes you an expert on U.S. geography.

    Asians don’t get affirmative action, your retarded wigger. This has been discussed at length by many authors here at Unz.
     
    Yes they do, goober. Asian advocacy organizations like AAJC strongly support it and admit that it benefits them. That an infitestimal number of Asian students have faced discrimination in applying to Ivy League schools doesn't change this fact especially when they're overrepresented by 350%.
    https://advancingjustice-aajc.org/publication/affirmative-action-facts
    Many large and medium sized companies extend AA in hiring and promotions to every group except white males.

    If America ever starts discriminating in favor of its founding stock causing Indian group incomes decline below that of whites will you fall out of love with them? A white guy (or so you claim) with a fetish for Indians makes you one weird dude. It's no wonder you repulse women no matter how much cologne you splash on.

    Let’s not forget that Europe is under the “defense umbrella” provided by the USA. This frees up their “tax revenue” to be used for their expansive social programs…

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    Let’s not forget that Europe is under the “defense umbrella” provided by the USA. This frees up their “tax revenue” to be used for their expansive social programs…
     
    Absolutely. If the US cut defense spending to the extent of leaving Europe on its own, Europe would have to spend $2 for every $1 the US cuts, simply due to loss of the economies of scale that US has under its umbrella.
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  114. Thomm says:
    @anarchyst
    Let's not forget that Europe is under the "defense umbrella" provided by the USA. This frees up their "tax revenue" to be used for their expansive social programs...

    Let’s not forget that Europe is under the “defense umbrella” provided by the USA. This frees up their “tax revenue” to be used for their expansive social programs…

    Absolutely. If the US cut defense spending to the extent of leaving Europe on its own, Europe would have to spend $2 for every $1 the US cuts, simply due to loss of the economies of scale that US has under its umbrella.

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  115. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Alden
    So electrical work in the Mid East is done by on the job trained guys? I bet those countries have some kind of low, lower, lowest universal building code as well.

    For some reason there is nothing in Vegas for electricians. So there are a lot of travelers from there in the Bay Area and they all have work. Guys even come from Alaska. Be a traveler and come to the Bay Area and your brothers will welcome you. Rents are expensive, but put an ad on the bulletin board and maybe you can find a room to rent from a brother for less than $1,000 a month. There is an RV park somewhere in the city with hookups and everything. Lots of the travelers live in them.

    Actually, come after Christmas because all the conventions and trade shows are slowing down and people will be laid off from them starting the middle of December. If you do shows and have to travel between San Francisco and all over San Mateo and Santa Clara counties and to San Jose you get paid full wages for the travel time. Unions are good aren't they?

    The subway and light rail go pretty far out to the suburbs where rents are a lot cheaper.

    I doubt electrical work actually dried up north of Chicago. Probably the contractors just imported a bunch of illegal mexicans. Hope they get sued for the shoddy work and fire hazards.

    At least some Mideast electrical work is done by South Asian (Indo/Pak/Lankan) contractors who are at least trained.

    RSDB (diff. anon)

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  116. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    US policy has always been to force countries, one way or the other, to militarize in self-defense. The massive overhead for buying the latest hardware is then blamed on “socialist bureaucracy and inefficiency.” Typically the CIA would make sure the right guy was elected, like in Greece, or do something worse.

    The US isn’t going to leave Europe on its own, they’ve been trying to pull a TTIP on european workers to drag them down to our level.

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  117. Malla says:
    @Daniel Chieh
    One thing that's important to note and frequently missed is that value-creation is probably not the best way to make a profit in Silicon Valley. Due to the way information spreads and expectations work, from an individual perspective, your best options for making a fortune really do seem to be:

    1) Have a startup which gets heavily hyped. Get bought out, and probably screw the rest of your employees. Attrition rates among companies which have been purchased are horrific, and in my experience, typically there's no ownership sharing. So essentially the top partners make it out wealthy, everyone else gets laid off.

    2) Be behind a large and well-resourced company. Buy out companies which have accumulated client lists for cheap, and then essentially hold them hostage due to restrictive contracts or simply because of inertia in the software.

    As such, politics and to a large extent, being heartless is advantageous and value creation is only a secondary goal. This is probably not collectively helpful, however and you can notice it in issues with actual software - Excel doesn't really get better, for example.

    Libertarians envision a world with a lot more pure competition and a lot less corruption than there is. This is not my experience in SV.

    I could not have put this better. Very true. The Capitalist model of the Anglo world is rubbish, say as compared to what they have in Germany where a long term relation is built between employer and employees. Thus in times of difficulty, employers retain employees with less pay and working hours instead of firing them. This way the company can survive the storm and the employees can at least survive instead of being on the road looking for a job or being on welfare. And then the times are good, the employer does not have to go looking for staff, they already have an experienced skilled staff working in the company all along.
    My point is labour and capital must not be enemies of each other and must look out for each other as much as they can. But a policy like this is only possible in very homogeneous countries like what Sweden was before immigration. In India, this is impossible on a large scale, will never happen in 10000 years.

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  118. Malla says:
    @Thomm

    Well it is already happening
     
    Well, I saw similar headlines 10 years ago. As they say, Russia has great potential, and always will (same goes for EE by extension). I would say the outcome is TBD.

    Question :

    What is your prediction for India's GDP growth trend? They have averaged 6% since the mid-1980s (they tend to over-exaggerate some 1991 event which didn't really increase the trendline from what it already was since the mid-80s, and they also over-exaggerate the few years of 8%+ that happened in the 2000s). But what is their future trajectory?

    Will they sustain 6% on average for 20 more years? Or will they slam down to a 4%/year status quo like Indonesia and Thailand before them?

    China seems to be the only country that can keep going at a high rate past any and all predictions of a plateauing or the 'law of large numbers'.

    What is your prediction for India’s GDP growth trend?

    It think it is good but mostly because we are coming from a very low base. However, in India there is a huge market/ workforce to develop and exploit, a lot of roads to be built. Indeed we are where the USA was a century ago. So yes there will be growth for a long time.

    “Will they sustain 6% on average for 20 more years? Or will they slam down to a 4%/year status quo like Indonesia and Thailand before them?”

    I some how believe there will be a slam but not now. India will eventually go the way of Thailand or Indonesia, I think. But there is a lot of growth for the foreseeable future. There is just too much potential to be exploited.

    As far as per capita income is concerned, I do not see India coming even close to first world countries like Japan or Germany. However there is a lot of scope for growth from what we have now. Indeed the standard of living in cities have gone up quite a lot in the last 2 decades and I think it will keep on going up for some decades. Will it reach the first world, not likely but if we can reach a middle income level, it will be great. However because of the population size, it’s over all economy will be huge (it already is quite respectable) and those who can tap into it can make fortunes. Like say the Ambanis who are among of the richest people on Earth.

    Lin has written how our economy/ growth is skewed. That is true. There is massive inequality. We have gone more towards services like IT and Pharma rather than core manufacturing unlike China. Thus only a small part of the population has seen the most benefit of this economic growth. A large population below them have also gained because of the trickle down of the wealth, but there is massive inequality. Do not mistake, we have a decent manufacturing sector, I mean we make most of our cars and they are pretty decent. A chunk of the labour force are quite competent. But there is a huge mass of low productive labour for each one of them. But we should have attempted to go the China way of mass manufacturing as that would have pulled a large population out of poverty. Now I think the window is closing due to increasing automation.
    I do not think India is the next China, the window is closing fast.

    The Indian subcontinent has traditionally always has been the place where some of the richest and poorest people of the world have lived together.Ancient India or Mughal India, India has been a land of some of the richest merchants and kings and very poor peasants. Even in British India, rich Indians like the royal families and businessmen like the Tatas could send their kids to top British schools like Eton which was out of bounds for the average British fishmonger. However the average British fishmonger has/had a much better standard of living than the average Indian fishmonger. This was the case even before the British East India company was formed. I think that tradition of inequality still continues and will continue in the future, I believe.

    One more thing which is of concern is the lack of innovation in the country. Brain drain could be one of the many reasons.

    http://www.dnaindia.com/money/report-no-invention-earth-shaking-idea-from-india-in-60-years-narayan-murthy-2105080

    Narayan Murthy is the founder of the mega Indian IT giant Infosys.

    http://www.livemint.com/Politics/TaFCHqsfMOuYIZ9h6nDHIL/India-remains-a-laggard-in-innovation-China-overtakes-US.html

    http://indiaschinablog.blogspot.in/2016/01/india-vs-china-innovation-patents.html

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    • Replies: @Malla
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OF4fcT9P2yk

    I completely agree with this guy, he is Indian by the way, example of a high IQ Indian. He knows what he is talking about.
    That is why I believe Multicultural/Multiracial countries are screwed in the long run. There is too much tragedy of the commons, massive tragedy of the commons. China comparatively to us is much more homogeneous and that is their biggest advantage over us other than IQ and cold climate work ethics. If Europe/North America/Australia go the Multicultural/multiracial way they are shooting themselves in the foot. India/Brazil is their future.
    We were ahead of China till the 1970s primarily because of the British Raj (The Chinese had to build up their infrastructure from scratch, the British Indian Govt had built up world class railways, ports and irrigation systems which was continued by Independent India) and because China being a Communist country was a bit of a pariah. But now things have turned around.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nh25s-zAZo

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tf1VA5jqmRo

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  119. Malla says:
    @Malla
    What is your prediction for India’s GDP growth trend?

    It think it is good but mostly because we are coming from a very low base. However, in India there is a huge market/ workforce to develop and exploit, a lot of roads to be built. Indeed we are where the USA was a century ago. So yes there will be growth for a long time.

    "Will they sustain 6% on average for 20 more years? Or will they slam down to a 4%/year status quo like Indonesia and Thailand before them?"

    I some how believe there will be a slam but not now. India will eventually go the way of Thailand or Indonesia, I think. But there is a lot of growth for the foreseeable future. There is just too much potential to be exploited.

    As far as per capita income is concerned, I do not see India coming even close to first world countries like Japan or Germany. However there is a lot of scope for growth from what we have now. Indeed the standard of living in cities have gone up quite a lot in the last 2 decades and I think it will keep on going up for some decades. Will it reach the first world, not likely but if we can reach a middle income level, it will be great. However because of the population size, it's over all economy will be huge (it already is quite respectable) and those who can tap into it can make fortunes. Like say the Ambanis who are among of the richest people on Earth.

    Lin has written how our economy/ growth is skewed. That is true. There is massive inequality. We have gone more towards services like IT and Pharma rather than core manufacturing unlike China. Thus only a small part of the population has seen the most benefit of this economic growth. A large population below them have also gained because of the trickle down of the wealth, but there is massive inequality. Do not mistake, we have a decent manufacturing sector, I mean we make most of our cars and they are pretty decent. A chunk of the labour force are quite competent. But there is a huge mass of low productive labour for each one of them. But we should have attempted to go the China way of mass manufacturing as that would have pulled a large population out of poverty. Now I think the window is closing due to increasing automation.
    I do not think India is the next China, the window is closing fast.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdVYVSdDAXs


    The Indian subcontinent has traditionally always has been the place where some of the richest and poorest people of the world have lived together.Ancient India or Mughal India, India has been a land of some of the richest merchants and kings and very poor peasants. Even in British India, rich Indians like the royal families and businessmen like the Tatas could send their kids to top British schools like Eton which was out of bounds for the average British fishmonger. However the average British fishmonger has/had a much better standard of living than the average Indian fishmonger. This was the case even before the British East India company was formed. I think that tradition of inequality still continues and will continue in the future, I believe.

    One more thing which is of concern is the lack of innovation in the country. Brain drain could be one of the many reasons.

    http://www.dnaindia.com/money/report-no-invention-earth-shaking-idea-from-india-in-60-years-narayan-murthy-2105080

    Narayan Murthy is the founder of the mega Indian IT giant Infosys.

    http://www.livemint.com/Politics/TaFCHqsfMOuYIZ9h6nDHIL/India-remains-a-laggard-in-innovation-China-overtakes-US.html

    http://indiaschinablog.blogspot.in/2016/01/india-vs-china-innovation-patents.html

    I completely agree with this guy, he is Indian by the way, example of a high IQ Indian. He knows what he is talking about.
    That is why I believe Multicultural/Multiracial countries are screwed in the long run. There is too much tragedy of the commons, massive tragedy of the commons. China comparatively to us is much more homogeneous and that is their biggest advantage over us other than IQ and cold climate work ethics. If Europe/North America/Australia go the Multicultural/multiracial way they are shooting themselves in the foot. India/Brazil is their future.
    We were ahead of China till the 1970s primarily because of the British Raj (The Chinese had to build up their infrastructure from scratch, the British Indian Govt had built up world class railways, ports and irrigation systems which was continued by Independent India) and because China being a Communist country was a bit of a pariah. But now things have turned around.

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  120. Malla says:
    @Lin
    "..Many come back because the Indian economy is booming recently and there are good opportunities for an entrepreneur..."
    "..Their accumulated dollars or pounds go more here as prices in India is much much cheaper.."
    "..For example for just Rs 800 a month which is about 10 U.S. dollars a month, a woman comes to our house and sweeps the floor, mops it, washes all the dishes and washes the cloths.."
    Three things:
    1)Those indians return to india not exactly because of the blooming economy there. It has to do with employment politics in countries like US and stricter immigration. Big layoff in india anticipated:
    http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/it-to-layoff-up-to-2-lakh-engineers-annually-for-next-3-yrs/1/953667.html
    1)It's very sad that low caste women even in bigger indian cities make so little; even less than I thought.
    3)PPPee or 'purchasing power parity' GDP is basically a ploy to make 3rd worlders feel less poor.
    If one pays so little for domestic servants, it means it matters little to the consumption pattern of the indian elite; how come laptop computer in india are on average >20% more expensive than those in US? Lets face the fact that developed countries, particularly US, have lower bulk food(eg. flour, corn..)production cost than countries like India due to technology and mechanisaton(or actually agriculture in India and China are more heavily subsidized than US), and the poorer the people, the bigger their income share spent on food. BigMac index also doesn't apply because the average Indians can't afford to eat at McDonald on a regular basis.

    “Those indians return to india not exactly because of the blooming economy there. It has to do with employment politics in countries like US and stricter immigration. Big layoff in india anticipated:

    http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/it-to-layoff-up-to-2-lakh-engineers-annually-for-next-3-yrs/1/953667.html&#8221;

    I agree with everything you say in the rest of the post except that when I mean Indians returning, I mean Indians who have lived for some time in some first world country, who coming back to India can expect a higher position in the industry than those positions which are about to be axed. So the axing on jobs mostly will not affect returnees but that depends on person to person. Many returnees become entrepreneurs. There are some parts of the economy which are booming and there is a lot of money to be made. Many returnees make a lot of money in the Indian market as they bring in capital and skills and they know future trends, as India is a bit behind than the first world. Sometimes new ideas unique to Indian requirements can lead to a new industry.

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  121. Malla says:
    @Lin
    I would say 'massive transfer of elite' is a misnomer. 'Massive brain drain' is more appropriate. As much as hindutwadis beating their chest of nationalism, the hindus simply don't have faith in their country. I heard as much as 40 -90% of the grads of best indian universities migrated to richer countries. Sure brain drain is a serious problem to many 3rd world countries. Whenever 3rd worlders brag about the success of their kins in developed countries, they're actually celebrating brain drain. India is a well known for their poor education and illiteracy. The whole country is so elitist and skewed. Here an indian ex-high court judge who wants a 'revolution':
    "..Our IT engineers are manning Silicon Valley in California, and American universities are full of our mathematics and science professors..."
    http://www.huffingtonpost.in/markandey-katju/reforms-will-not-do-india-any-good-only-a-revolution-will_a_22028052/

    Yes that is true, massive brain drain but is that not a reason why the Indian or Chinese or Nigerian nationalists will support the White nationalists of the West. If the post 1965 noN Euro population are forced to go back to their source nations as well as the non White non Native populations of Europe, it will be a win win to both. The Euros will get the homogeneous nations they once had and what they desire which was taken away from then without their approval and we will get back out brain talent and labour. If the intelligent high IQ Nigerian is forced to work in Nigeria, it is a win for Nigeria.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.in/markandey-katju/reforms-will-not-do-india-any-good-only-a-revolution-will_a_22028052/&#8221;

    Mr. Markandey Katju was the Chief Justice of India (Top judiciary position of Republic of India) and is a brilliant man. He has been complaining about extreme corruption in the judiciary and among the politicians. He also complains about increase in casteism, inter ethnic nepotism and voting politicians based only on their background and not performance by the populations. He says India is still a feudal society, and we need to evolve ahead. I agree with him completely, but I somehow feel his comparisons of European nations of the 17th centuries with India is not completely right. India is a multi racial/multicultural matrix and it shares some of the problems which come with it, lack of trust and tragedy of the commons. The best way to overcome this problem is more westernization (enlightenment principles) without destroying some of the good traditions of Indian culture. This will reduce the problems associated with multiculturalism/multiracialism to some extent if not eliminate them to Polish or Japanese levels. However Indians and other subcontinentals lately are all regressing back except a tiny minority of Convent educated elites.

    Check from say 13:30

    Democracy tends to becomes meaningless in multicultural/ multiracial societies as every group will want their part of the common pie. Even mass intermarriage does not remove this.

    Check from 14:16
    He rightly claims that the system is on the brink of collapse.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Third world nationalist
    I disagree. Why do whites get to keep not only their home continent of Europe as well as North america and Australia ? While the rest of us only get our home continents ? I support Europe being for whites but North America and Australia should be for everyone.
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  122. @Malla
    Yes that is true, massive brain drain but is that not a reason why the Indian or Chinese or Nigerian nationalists will support the White nationalists of the West. If the post 1965 noN Euro population are forced to go back to their source nations as well as the non White non Native populations of Europe, it will be a win win to both. The Euros will get the homogeneous nations they once had and what they desire which was taken away from then without their approval and we will get back out brain talent and labour. If the intelligent high IQ Nigerian is forced to work in Nigeria, it is a win for Nigeria.


    "http://www.huffingtonpost.in/markandey-katju/reforms-will-not-do-india-any-good-only-a-revolution-will_a_22028052/"

    Mr. Markandey Katju was the Chief Justice of India (Top judiciary position of Republic of India) and is a brilliant man. He has been complaining about extreme corruption in the judiciary and among the politicians. He also complains about increase in casteism, inter ethnic nepotism and voting politicians based only on their background and not performance by the populations. He says India is still a feudal society, and we need to evolve ahead. I agree with him completely, but I somehow feel his comparisons of European nations of the 17th centuries with India is not completely right. India is a multi racial/multicultural matrix and it shares some of the problems which come with it, lack of trust and tragedy of the commons. The best way to overcome this problem is more westernization (enlightenment principles) without destroying some of the good traditions of Indian culture. This will reduce the problems associated with multiculturalism/multiracialism to some extent if not eliminate them to Polish or Japanese levels. However Indians and other subcontinentals lately are all regressing back except a tiny minority of Convent educated elites.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3mDkqU_sck

    Check from say 13:30

    Democracy tends to becomes meaningless in multicultural/ multiracial societies as every group will want their part of the common pie. Even mass intermarriage does not remove this.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBKBjju5LFA

    Check from 14:16
    He rightly claims that the system is on the brink of collapse.

    I disagree. Why do whites get to keep not only their home continent of Europe as well as North america and Australia ? While the rest of us only get our home continents ? I support Europe being for whites but North America and Australia should be for everyone.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon
    The Bantu only recently, over the last thousand years, colonized southern Africa. Should that be for everyone too? I'm actually not controverting you here, just curious as to what you think.

    Also this is a very minor correction but you should use "but" not "as well as". No hostile intent, I'll probably make some mistake in this comment too.
    , @Malla
    Well the point you raised are based on certain assumptions, that the recent European expansion into the Americas and say Australia/New Zealand is the only one in history. But history is full of such cases where tribes have overcome other tribes militarily and have become the majority.
    For example, look at North Africa, where Arabs have overwhelmed the native Berber populations and have become a major chunk of the population. Should North Africa belong to everyone too? What about Central Asia. Before the Mongol and Islamic expansions, Central Asia was full of Nordic blond White people like
    Scythians
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scythians
    Cumans
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumans
    Alans
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alans
    Where are they now in their original form? (a few survive as Pamiris and the Russians arrived much later). Most of them are mixed with Mongols and muslims from the south and were genetically overwhelmed. Should Central Asia belong to every race now?
    One of the commenters have already mentioned the Bantu expansion in Africa. It is not only South Africa, but a major part of Africa where the Khoi San and pygmies were overwhelmed by the taller Bantus. All of Africa except Cameroon/Nigeria (source of the Bantus) should be open to immigration from everywhere according to your logic.
    You also ignore the other nations of the Americans. What about the Caribbean? The blacks and Indians (in Guyana/Trinidad) are not the natives, yes they arrived as slaves or indentured servants and many blacks in the Caribbean have native American ancestry but that does not change the fact that they are not the real natives. Native Americans are a minority in Guyana and Trinidad but neither will the black brown populations go back to Africa/India, they will never allow unlimited immigration. Indeed during the Haitian crisis, even Barbados and Jamaica put a lot of restrictions on Haitian immigration. Restrictions on fellow blacks from the Caribbean! Anyways I understand why Barbados may do it as Barbados has a much higher standard of living than Haiti and a smaller population, so they were just protecting themselves but should not the Caribbean be open to unrestricted immigration from everywhere? And what about Brazil and Uruguay and Argentina and Venezuela? They should be open to unrestricted immigration too. They are not pure native Americans anymore. But trust me, the local populations of these countries will never agree to it how much ever you try to convince them. What about Taiwan? There the natives have become a minority, Taiwan became majority Han only in the last some centuries and are now 90% of the population. Should Taiwan belong to everyone now? Will the Taiwanese even agree to something like that? What about Irian Jaya in Indonesia where immigrants from other parts of Indonesia are making the native black Papuans a minority in their own land. And the Chittagong Hills of Bangladesh, where colonists/ immigrants from the rest of muslim Bangladesh are making the native Chakma and others a minority in their own ancestral lands. HOW IS THAT DIFFERENT FROM WHITES OVERWHELMING NORHT AMEIRCANS? Chittaging Hill tracts of Bangladesh should belong to all mankind, why should only Bangladeshis get it? Try convincing a Bangladeshi that. What about Mauritius? The Indians and Africans are not native to that land. They should be thankful to Europeans for taking them there and making them the majority. Madagascar? The local population was formed when Malays came from South East Asia and got some blacks from Africa into the island. Madagascar should not belong to every people on Earth.
    Secondly, like the Arabs in North Africa, the Whites had defeated the Native Americans, Australian Aboriginals, Africans in Southern Africa and Maoris in New Zealand militarily. Post 1965 immigrants to North America or Australia have not defeated the local population militarily. The immigration was allowed by the elite classes without the consent of the people. No referendum was taken to ask the local populations if they wanted massive amounts of immigrants in their lands.
    As the Whites had conquered the local Native American or Maori forces, if you want an equivalent comparison, the immigrants going to USA or Australia or Canada will have to defeat the native militaries of these lands as the Whites had done centuries earlier. That is immigrants (not the armies of their source nations) have to defeat the U.S, Australian or Canadian armed forces. Good luck with that. You also forget that the natives fought back. Native Americans and Maoris did fight back and kill many White settlers/immigrants. Even Aboriginal Australian fought back, but they had very little chance as they were one of the most primitive populations on earth fighting the most advanced population of humans, they had no chance. But by that logic, the local, Whites and even Native Americans/blacks, Aboriginals of North America/Australia today have the right to fight back the new immigrants coming in the last some decades and take their lives too. Seems fair to me.
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  123. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Third world nationalist
    I disagree. Why do whites get to keep not only their home continent of Europe as well as North america and Australia ? While the rest of us only get our home continents ? I support Europe being for whites but North America and Australia should be for everyone.

    The Bantu only recently, over the last thousand years, colonized southern Africa. Should that be for everyone too? I’m actually not controverting you here, just curious as to what you think.

    Also this is a very minor correction but you should use “but” not “as well as”. No hostile intent, I’ll probably make some mistake in this comment too.

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    • Replies: @Third World Nationalist
    I believe that the koi San and other bush men are the only people that can claim native status in South Africa. I believe that south africa should try to survive in its current multi racial form, if that is not possible then breaking up into smaller ethnic states will be a good idea. A multi racial cape republic, batustan, and a boer republic.
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  124. @Anon
    The Bantu only recently, over the last thousand years, colonized southern Africa. Should that be for everyone too? I'm actually not controverting you here, just curious as to what you think.

    Also this is a very minor correction but you should use "but" not "as well as". No hostile intent, I'll probably make some mistake in this comment too.

    I believe that the koi San and other bush men are the only people that can claim native status in South Africa. I believe that south africa should try to survive in its current multi racial form, if that is not possible then breaking up into smaller ethnic states will be a good idea. A multi racial cape republic, batustan, and a boer republic.

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  125. Malla says:
    @Third world nationalist
    I disagree. Why do whites get to keep not only their home continent of Europe as well as North america and Australia ? While the rest of us only get our home continents ? I support Europe being for whites but North America and Australia should be for everyone.

    Well the point you raised are based on certain assumptions, that the recent European expansion into the Americas and say Australia/New Zealand is the only one in history. But history is full of such cases where tribes have overcome other tribes militarily and have become the majority.
    For example, look at North Africa, where Arabs have overwhelmed the native Berber populations and have become a major chunk of the population. Should North Africa belong to everyone too? What about Central Asia. Before the Mongol and Islamic expansions, Central Asia was full of Nordic blond White people like
    Scythians

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scythians

    Cumans

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumans

    Alans

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alans

    Where are they now in their original form? (a few survive as Pamiris and the Russians arrived much later). Most of them are mixed with Mongols and muslims from the south and were genetically overwhelmed. Should Central Asia belong to every race now?
    One of the commenters have already mentioned the Bantu expansion in Africa. It is not only South Africa, but a major part of Africa where the Khoi San and pygmies were overwhelmed by the taller Bantus. All of Africa except Cameroon/Nigeria (source of the Bantus) should be open to immigration from everywhere according to your logic.
    You also ignore the other nations of the Americans. What about the Caribbean? The blacks and Indians (in Guyana/Trinidad) are not the natives, yes they arrived as slaves or indentured servants and many blacks in the Caribbean have native American ancestry but that does not change the fact that they are not the real natives. Native Americans are a minority in Guyana and Trinidad but neither will the black brown populations go back to Africa/India, they will never allow unlimited immigration. Indeed during the Haitian crisis, even Barbados and Jamaica put a lot of restrictions on Haitian immigration. Restrictions on fellow blacks from the Caribbean! Anyways I understand why Barbados may do it as Barbados has a much higher standard of living than Haiti and a smaller population, so they were just protecting themselves but should not the Caribbean be open to unrestricted immigration from everywhere? And what about Brazil and Uruguay and Argentina and Venezuela? They should be open to unrestricted immigration too. They are not pure native Americans anymore. But trust me, the local populations of these countries will never agree to it how much ever you try to convince them. What about Taiwan? There the natives have become a minority, Taiwan became majority Han only in the last some centuries and are now 90% of the population. Should Taiwan belong to everyone now? Will the Taiwanese even agree to something like that? What about Irian Jaya in Indonesia where immigrants from other parts of Indonesia are making the native black Papuans a minority in their own land. And the Chittagong Hills of Bangladesh, where colonists/ immigrants from the rest of muslim Bangladesh are making the native Chakma and others a minority in their own ancestral lands. HOW IS THAT DIFFERENT FROM WHITES OVERWHELMING NORHT AMEIRCANS? Chittaging Hill tracts of Bangladesh should belong to all mankind, why should only Bangladeshis get it? Try convincing a Bangladeshi that. What about Mauritius? The Indians and Africans are not native to that land. They should be thankful to Europeans for taking them there and making them the majority. Madagascar? The local population was formed when Malays came from South East Asia and got some blacks from Africa into the island. Madagascar should not belong to every people on Earth.
    Secondly, like the Arabs in North Africa, the Whites had defeated the Native Americans, Australian Aboriginals, Africans in Southern Africa and Maoris in New Zealand militarily. Post 1965 immigrants to North America or Australia have not defeated the local population militarily. The immigration was allowed by the elite classes without the consent of the people. No referendum was taken to ask the local populations if they wanted massive amounts of immigrants in their lands.
    As the Whites had conquered the local Native American or Maori forces, if you want an equivalent comparison, the immigrants going to USA or Australia or Canada will have to defeat the native militaries of these lands as the Whites had done centuries earlier. That is immigrants (not the armies of their source nations) have to defeat the U.S, Australian or Canadian armed forces. Good luck with that. You also forget that the natives fought back. Native Americans and Maoris did fight back and kill many White settlers/immigrants. Even Aboriginal Australian fought back, but they had very little chance as they were one of the most primitive populations on earth fighting the most advanced population of humans, they had no chance. But by that logic, the local, Whites and even Native Americans/blacks, Aboriginals of North America/Australia today have the right to fight back the new immigrants coming in the last some decades and take their lives too. Seems fair to me.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Third world nationalist
    I have no problem with the idea of nativism or anti migrantion laws to favour natives. I am an anti migration person myself I just don't think North america and Australia should be based on the idea of an white ethno state. After all the average black in America has been native longer then the average white. A asian who came to America in 1965 should be considered more American then a white who came in 2017.

    I can accpet ethnic nationalism in Europe not in America or Australia.
    , @Anon
    But the "natives" aren't fighting back. They're saying "Come one, come all".
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  126. @Malla
    Well the point you raised are based on certain assumptions, that the recent European expansion into the Americas and say Australia/New Zealand is the only one in history. But history is full of such cases where tribes have overcome other tribes militarily and have become the majority.
    For example, look at North Africa, where Arabs have overwhelmed the native Berber populations and have become a major chunk of the population. Should North Africa belong to everyone too? What about Central Asia. Before the Mongol and Islamic expansions, Central Asia was full of Nordic blond White people like
    Scythians
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scythians
    Cumans
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumans
    Alans
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alans
    Where are they now in their original form? (a few survive as Pamiris and the Russians arrived much later). Most of them are mixed with Mongols and muslims from the south and were genetically overwhelmed. Should Central Asia belong to every race now?
    One of the commenters have already mentioned the Bantu expansion in Africa. It is not only South Africa, but a major part of Africa where the Khoi San and pygmies were overwhelmed by the taller Bantus. All of Africa except Cameroon/Nigeria (source of the Bantus) should be open to immigration from everywhere according to your logic.
    You also ignore the other nations of the Americans. What about the Caribbean? The blacks and Indians (in Guyana/Trinidad) are not the natives, yes they arrived as slaves or indentured servants and many blacks in the Caribbean have native American ancestry but that does not change the fact that they are not the real natives. Native Americans are a minority in Guyana and Trinidad but neither will the black brown populations go back to Africa/India, they will never allow unlimited immigration. Indeed during the Haitian crisis, even Barbados and Jamaica put a lot of restrictions on Haitian immigration. Restrictions on fellow blacks from the Caribbean! Anyways I understand why Barbados may do it as Barbados has a much higher standard of living than Haiti and a smaller population, so they were just protecting themselves but should not the Caribbean be open to unrestricted immigration from everywhere? And what about Brazil and Uruguay and Argentina and Venezuela? They should be open to unrestricted immigration too. They are not pure native Americans anymore. But trust me, the local populations of these countries will never agree to it how much ever you try to convince them. What about Taiwan? There the natives have become a minority, Taiwan became majority Han only in the last some centuries and are now 90% of the population. Should Taiwan belong to everyone now? Will the Taiwanese even agree to something like that? What about Irian Jaya in Indonesia where immigrants from other parts of Indonesia are making the native black Papuans a minority in their own land. And the Chittagong Hills of Bangladesh, where colonists/ immigrants from the rest of muslim Bangladesh are making the native Chakma and others a minority in their own ancestral lands. HOW IS THAT DIFFERENT FROM WHITES OVERWHELMING NORHT AMEIRCANS? Chittaging Hill tracts of Bangladesh should belong to all mankind, why should only Bangladeshis get it? Try convincing a Bangladeshi that. What about Mauritius? The Indians and Africans are not native to that land. They should be thankful to Europeans for taking them there and making them the majority. Madagascar? The local population was formed when Malays came from South East Asia and got some blacks from Africa into the island. Madagascar should not belong to every people on Earth.
    Secondly, like the Arabs in North Africa, the Whites had defeated the Native Americans, Australian Aboriginals, Africans in Southern Africa and Maoris in New Zealand militarily. Post 1965 immigrants to North America or Australia have not defeated the local population militarily. The immigration was allowed by the elite classes without the consent of the people. No referendum was taken to ask the local populations if they wanted massive amounts of immigrants in their lands.
    As the Whites had conquered the local Native American or Maori forces, if you want an equivalent comparison, the immigrants going to USA or Australia or Canada will have to defeat the native militaries of these lands as the Whites had done centuries earlier. That is immigrants (not the armies of their source nations) have to defeat the U.S, Australian or Canadian armed forces. Good luck with that. You also forget that the natives fought back. Native Americans and Maoris did fight back and kill many White settlers/immigrants. Even Aboriginal Australian fought back, but they had very little chance as they were one of the most primitive populations on earth fighting the most advanced population of humans, they had no chance. But by that logic, the local, Whites and even Native Americans/blacks, Aboriginals of North America/Australia today have the right to fight back the new immigrants coming in the last some decades and take their lives too. Seems fair to me.

    I have no problem with the idea of nativism or anti migrantion laws to favour natives. I am an anti migration person myself I just don’t think North america and Australia should be based on the idea of an white ethno state. After all the average black in America has been native longer then the average white. A asian who came to America in 1965 should be considered more American then a white who came in 2017.

    I can accpet ethnic nationalism in Europe not in America or Australia.

    Read More
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  127. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Malla
    Well the point you raised are based on certain assumptions, that the recent European expansion into the Americas and say Australia/New Zealand is the only one in history. But history is full of such cases where tribes have overcome other tribes militarily and have become the majority.
    For example, look at North Africa, where Arabs have overwhelmed the native Berber populations and have become a major chunk of the population. Should North Africa belong to everyone too? What about Central Asia. Before the Mongol and Islamic expansions, Central Asia was full of Nordic blond White people like
    Scythians
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scythians
    Cumans
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumans
    Alans
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alans
    Where are they now in their original form? (a few survive as Pamiris and the Russians arrived much later). Most of them are mixed with Mongols and muslims from the south and were genetically overwhelmed. Should Central Asia belong to every race now?
    One of the commenters have already mentioned the Bantu expansion in Africa. It is not only South Africa, but a major part of Africa where the Khoi San and pygmies were overwhelmed by the taller Bantus. All of Africa except Cameroon/Nigeria (source of the Bantus) should be open to immigration from everywhere according to your logic.
    You also ignore the other nations of the Americans. What about the Caribbean? The blacks and Indians (in Guyana/Trinidad) are not the natives, yes they arrived as slaves or indentured servants and many blacks in the Caribbean have native American ancestry but that does not change the fact that they are not the real natives. Native Americans are a minority in Guyana and Trinidad but neither will the black brown populations go back to Africa/India, they will never allow unlimited immigration. Indeed during the Haitian crisis, even Barbados and Jamaica put a lot of restrictions on Haitian immigration. Restrictions on fellow blacks from the Caribbean! Anyways I understand why Barbados may do it as Barbados has a much higher standard of living than Haiti and a smaller population, so they were just protecting themselves but should not the Caribbean be open to unrestricted immigration from everywhere? And what about Brazil and Uruguay and Argentina and Venezuela? They should be open to unrestricted immigration too. They are not pure native Americans anymore. But trust me, the local populations of these countries will never agree to it how much ever you try to convince them. What about Taiwan? There the natives have become a minority, Taiwan became majority Han only in the last some centuries and are now 90% of the population. Should Taiwan belong to everyone now? Will the Taiwanese even agree to something like that? What about Irian Jaya in Indonesia where immigrants from other parts of Indonesia are making the native black Papuans a minority in their own land. And the Chittagong Hills of Bangladesh, where colonists/ immigrants from the rest of muslim Bangladesh are making the native Chakma and others a minority in their own ancestral lands. HOW IS THAT DIFFERENT FROM WHITES OVERWHELMING NORHT AMEIRCANS? Chittaging Hill tracts of Bangladesh should belong to all mankind, why should only Bangladeshis get it? Try convincing a Bangladeshi that. What about Mauritius? The Indians and Africans are not native to that land. They should be thankful to Europeans for taking them there and making them the majority. Madagascar? The local population was formed when Malays came from South East Asia and got some blacks from Africa into the island. Madagascar should not belong to every people on Earth.
    Secondly, like the Arabs in North Africa, the Whites had defeated the Native Americans, Australian Aboriginals, Africans in Southern Africa and Maoris in New Zealand militarily. Post 1965 immigrants to North America or Australia have not defeated the local population militarily. The immigration was allowed by the elite classes without the consent of the people. No referendum was taken to ask the local populations if they wanted massive amounts of immigrants in their lands.
    As the Whites had conquered the local Native American or Maori forces, if you want an equivalent comparison, the immigrants going to USA or Australia or Canada will have to defeat the native militaries of these lands as the Whites had done centuries earlier. That is immigrants (not the armies of their source nations) have to defeat the U.S, Australian or Canadian armed forces. Good luck with that. You also forget that the natives fought back. Native Americans and Maoris did fight back and kill many White settlers/immigrants. Even Aboriginal Australian fought back, but they had very little chance as they were one of the most primitive populations on earth fighting the most advanced population of humans, they had no chance. But by that logic, the local, Whites and even Native Americans/blacks, Aboriginals of North America/Australia today have the right to fight back the new immigrants coming in the last some decades and take their lives too. Seems fair to me.

    But the “natives” aren’t fighting back. They’re saying “Come one, come all”.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  128. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    After all the average black in America has been native longer then the average white. A asian who came to America in 1965 should be considered more American then a white who came in 2017.

    I can accpet ethnic nationalism in Europe not in America or Australia.

    This is, of course, what most Americans agree with. It is consistent with American values of inclusion and assimilation.

    The ‘White Nationalists’ disagree out of ignorance. There are even blogs run by recent immigrants from Poland and Belarus who want to take credit for ‘building the West’, and demand that they have a higher status than US blacks. They also demand that 2nd-gen Asians and Hispanics ‘go back’. These idiots will never admit that something like the Cold War ever happened, and they were against the West until the very last day.

    No, they just come here and talk as though the ‘we’ in ‘We built the West’ includes them.

    Here is just one such blog, by an insecure Polack who thinks *he* built America despite being a recent immigrant :

    https://paworldandtimes.wordpress.com/2017/07/25/model-minority/

    Read More
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