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The following is part I in a conversation with Jack Kerwick, author of “The American Offensive: Dispatches From The Front.” Jack received his Ph.D. in philosophy from Temple University. A lifelong Roman Catholic, his work on philosophy, politics, religion and culture has appeared in various publications. He teaches philosophy at Rowan College at Burlington County in Mount Laurel, NJ. Visit his Beliefnet blog—”At the Intersection of Faith & Culture”—friend him on Facebook, and email him at: [email protected]

1. Ilana Mercer: In “The American Offensive,” you address the demographic drumbeat meant to downgrade and demoralize what is derisively called the “white vote” in this country. Explain, with reference to 2016.

Jack Kerwick: To no slight extent, it is GOP frontrunner Donald Trump’s American-friendly position on immigration that accounts for why both Republican and Democrat Establishmentarians alike despise him. For a half-of-a-century, American policy has overwhelmingly favored non-white immigrants from the Third World. I think that the doctrine of “American Exceptionalism”—the doctrine that America was “founded” upon some ahistorical abstraction (an “idea” or “proposition”)—coupled with an ideology of anti-“white racism”—the belief that whites are uniquely “racist”—informs contemporary immigration policy. The objective is to simultaneously neglect and repudiate the country’s Eurocentric, Christocentric history.

Trump challenges this narrative. Thus, he is vilified by those who stand to gain from it.

2. Mercer: No sooner does one immigration give-away fail (the Schubio Gang of Eight), than a new political zombie will resurrect the marvelously intuitive idea of importing masses of migrants from countries in which Christians are being exterminated. On the eve of Christmas, tell us who’s killing whom around the world.

Kerwick: For all of the talk about “Islamophobia,” in reality it is Christians (as well as other religious minorities) in Islamic lands around the globe who are routinely subjected to unimaginably barbaric treatment courtesy of their Islamic oppressors. Inasmuch as this phenomenon of Islamic-on-non-Islamic cruelty transpires throughout Africa and the Middle East, it transcends ethnicity, nationality, and culture.

Open Doors (OD) is an organization “dedicated to serving persecuted Christians throughout the world.” OD reports that 40 of the worst 50 countries on Earth for Christians are countries with majority Muslim populations. Still, to listen to the left and (faux) right, with all of their talk of “Islamism” or “extremism,” one could be forgiven for thinking that none of this is happening, that the problem is with something they call “Islamism” or “extremism,” rather than with everyday practitioners of Islam.

3. Mercer: Slavery was abolished by white Christians; it is still practiced robustly—even religiously regulated—by some Muslims. Tell our readers about this never-discussed reality and the tenets that permit slavery in Islam.

Kerwick: Though, as you mention, white Christians of the 18th century spearheaded a moral revolution that resulted in the abolition of slavery around the world, it is still practiced in parts of the Islamic world. Not being an Islamic scholar, I can only say so much as to why this is the case. Unsurprisingly, the Qur’an not only authorizes, but commands, the practice of slavery. Moreover, Muhammad owned slaves, and—this is crucial—observant Muslims are expected to emulate the example of “The Prophet.”

While it’s true that the Bible—the Hebrew and Christian Scriptures—also allow for slavery, there is no analogical relationship between it and the Qur’an on this score. The Bible’s teachings are contextualized within a narrative interpretive framework. The Qur’an, in glaring contrast, has no such framework. The kind of chronological or historical sequencing of events in the Bible is not to be found in the Qur’an.

4. Mercer: I take it you mean to say that the rough passages in the Hebrew Testament do not apply to anyone any longer, unless, in the words of scholar of Islam Robert Spencer, “you happen to be a Hittite, Girgashite, Amorite, Canaanite Perizzite, Hivite, or Jebusite.”

Kerwick: “Exactly. When God commands the Hebrews to kill “unbelievers,” He always refers to some specific group, in a specific place and at a specific time. In Islam, however, “unbelievers” refers to all non-Muslims, everywhere, forever after.

5. Mercer: Very many black Americans are adopting Islam. Why is this a powder keg?

Kerwick : That Islam—or at least a racialized version of it—has attracted scores of black Americans, to say nothing of black American criminals, over the decades is no secret. This connection between black Americans and Islam is at once revealing and troubling. It’s revealing in that it suggests that those who have been reviled for noting the impulse for militancy within the Islamic tradition just may have been on to something all along, for it is precisely the perception of militancy that appeals to those blacks who feel alienated from mainstream American culture. After all, it isn’t Buddhism, Hinduism, Confucianism, Taoism or some other non-Western faith to which they’re gravitating, but Islam.

That the phenomenon of alienated black Americans endorsing a militant ideology is troubling is self-explanatory. Those who are already ripe for violence now have a theological justification for violence.

6. Mercer: What do you mean by the terms “Racial-Industrial-Complex” and “racially correct suicide”? How can they be combated and averted?

Kerwick: The RIC consists of those who stand to gain from promoting the myth that “racism”—white “racism”—is an omnipresent, omnipotent force. Since the RIC is every bit as entrenched and powerful as any other industry, its countless agents must labor inexhaustibly to create ever-expansive notions of “racism.” Only if these professional “anti-racists” can show that there is a need for their “services” can they justify their existence.

ORDER IT NOW

“Racially correct suicide” consists in valuing some delusion of “racial justice” over any and all other considerations—including that of improving, or even just maintaining, the quality of life in America. For example, following recent incidents of Islamic mass murder in places like France, American commentators were quick to jump on their high horses and castigate Europeans for allowing the formation of “No Go” zones, high-crime bastions of Islamic immigrants into which even authorities dare not travel.

Yet America has its own share of “No Go” zones—even if many of these are bastions of Hispanic immigrants. I refer to America’s barrios.

And to judge from the backlash that Donald Trump has faced in the wake of his proposal to suspend Muslim immigration—a proposal that is hot on the heels of the mass killing in San Bernardino—it’s hard not to conclude that his critics would prefer to avoid the charge of “racism” or “Islamophobia” rather than avert harm to Americans.

This is “racially correct suicide.”

Combatting the RIC is no easy task. The only way that I can think of to fight this juggernaut is to cut through the rhetoric and unmask—continually unmask—this self-serving sham for what it is.

 
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  1. marwan says:

    islamic republic of mauritania is the slavery capital of the world . 600,000 people living as slaves there in 2015.
    islamist indonesia illegaly occupies west papua and is commiting real genocide on the native christian population . 500,000 papuans killed in the last 50 years .
    a shame we never see it highlighted in the media.

    • Replies: @Singh
    , @Rehmat
  2. Tom_R says:

    JUDAISTS BEHIND THE ALIEN INVASION; JUDAISTS DELUDED BY THE OT.

    Thanks for the interesting article. It is very right on many points and I agree with it overall. Except it does not mention the Jewish role. I think it is important to mention that, so people understand how why the Judaists are promoting the alien invasion (while building fences in Israel and the world’s biggest prison there for illegal aliens) and that white extinction is their specific goal.

    See:

    http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/breaking-news/wide-range-jewish-groups-urge-faster-path-citizenship

    They want millions more 3rd world Mexicans in USA to make whites a permanent minority that they can permanently control and exploit.

    But in Israel, they are going to pass a law to make Israel a Jewish state, build fences to keep Muslims out, and are building the world’s biggest prison to house blacks / Africans.

    http://www.mediafreedominternational.org/2011/04/04/israel-building-immigrant-prison-camp-for-africans/

    There are 100’s of websites proving Jewish involvement in this racket, such as Barbara Lerner Spectre, Annette Kahne, and this:

    http://forward.com/news/breaking-news/173720/jewish-groups-push-for-immigration-reform-on-passo/

    The Rabbis of this criminal cult are so depraved and evil, almost a 1000 of them demanded more 3rd world aliens into white countries (in effect, to exterminate whites).

    http://www.hias.org/sites/default/files/hias_1000_rabbis_support_refugees.pdf

    Furthermore, there is hatred for ALL goyim in the Torah/Tanakh and the Talmud. The whole delusion of Judaists being “God’s chosen people” is basically akin to hatred for all others. Also:

    “There is no text more barbaric than the Old Testament….The Quran pales in comparison.”–Sam Harris.

    • Replies: @marwan
    , @Stan D Mute
  3. marwan says:
    @Tom_R

    pretty obsessed with jews . seems like they got total control of your mind , bro.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  4. Singh says:
    @marwan

    Why not talk about how christians have been trying to wipe out bhuddism & hinduism in Japan & India?

    Or the hundreds millions starved by Britain. Fact is all three abrahamic faiths are subversive & anti national all three deserve destruction.

    Will we forget the rape of Persia or the slavery of danavas (slavs & celts) No.

    We are Sikhs we will take our revenge 125,000x fold & neither the Cross, the Crescent nor the Star of David will exist.

    Secularism, Communism are all demon spawns of Christianity as well.

  5. We need to expose big bigotry incorporated as a business racket. We need to deconstruct racism.

  6. So the Christians are persecuted by the practitioners of Islam. Really? Well how would you term the destruction of entire countries inhabited by the same practitioners.

  7. @Singh

    I am part native american and part white. Does the native american part hate the white part? No. If the best you can come with is being outraged at historical grievances against unrelated people hundreds of years later then you are really proving why the civil rights movement is a sham and we need to allow private groups to be physically separate. People such as yourself claim racism is a problem then start plotting revenge against supposed ideological enemies. Just because I look white doesnt mean my ancestors ever owned slaves or were responsible for colonialism or the opium wars. How far do you want to go back? You are providing an excellent example as to why discrimination is important.

  8. Rehmat says:

    Jack Kerwick reminds me Dr. Daniel Pipes, the notorious Zionist Jew bigot, who has become Dean of anti-Islam Orientalists. Jack Kerwick’s ignorance of Islam and Muslim history has made him “darling” of anti-Muslim racist media, such as American Thinker, FrontPagae magazine, The Town Hall, Bliefnet, Israel Against Terror(?), etc. etc.

    1. No Muslim in the 57 Muslim majority states, has ever insulted or ridiculed prophet Jesus (as) or Saint Mary (as), which occurred almost every day in Israel, US, UK, France, Germany, Australia, and many other so-called “Christian lands”. Why? Because it’s mandatory for every Muslim to honor and respect all Biblical prophets.

    2. Muslim mosques had been destroyed by Christians, Jews and Hindus in Spain, France, Hungary, Russia, India, Cuba, Israel, Greece, etc. – but there is no record any church being destroyed to use as stable, nightclub, mosque or playground in any of Muslim state.

    3. Despite, Western lies, Christians and Jewish minorities in Iran, Tunis, Pakistan, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Algeria, Morocco, Indonesia, etc. fell safer than Muslim minorities in the Christian west.

    4. Some of the world’s largest communities live in Pakistan and Indonesia. They’re represented in every government, military, political, and social fields. Something, bigots like Kirwick cannot prove in the so-called “civilized” West.

    Quaid-e-Azam, Allama Iqbal, the noted Jewish scholar Leopard Weiss (Mohammad Assad) and many top Muslim League leaders believed in the establishment of Muslim majority state governed via Islamic Shari’ah which would protect the religious, political and social rights of country’s non-Muslim minorities. Mohammad Assad in an article written in May 1947, said that “Islam and Islam alone was the raison d’etre of this unique country”.

    In the past, Pakistan had several Christians, Hindus, Sikhs and Ahmedia ministers in central and provincial governments, diplomats, military officials, academics and judges. The non-Muslim government ministers include Derek Cyprian, Col. SK Tressler, Shahbaz Bhatti, Raja Tridev Roy, Justice AR Cornelius, Akshay Kumar Das, Basanta Kumar Das, Kamini Kumar Datta and the current and the current Minister of Port and Shipping, Kamran Michael. Pakistan’s first foreign minister, Sir Zafrullah Khan belonged to non-Muslim Ahmedi minority. Pakistan’s first law minister, Jogendra Nath Mandal, was a Hindu. Justice AR Cornelius became the first Hindu Chief Justice of Pakistan Supreme Court followed by Hindu Rana Bhagwan as the Acting Chief Justice of the Supreme Court. High-ranking Pakistan Army include Maj. Gen. Julian Peter, Brigadier Samson S. Sharaf, Col. SK Tressler, etc…

    The term “radical” has been applied to many people, who were considered threat to western colonization, such as Nelson Mandela, Rev. Martin Luther King and Malcolm X, Sayyid Qutb, Dr. Ali Shari’ati (the Shia Qutb), Sayyid Maududi, Imam Khomeini, and others. However, now this term is being associated with any Muslim who dare to criticize foreign powers occupying tradionally Muslim lands espectially the Zionist regime in Jewish occupied Palestine. The western historians never called Nazis as “Judeo-Christian radicals” or IRA as “Catholic radicals” or the Jewish terrorist groups which killed tens of thousands of Palestinian natives – as “Jew radicals”.

    http://rehmat1.com/2013/08/13/christian-minority-persecuted-in-pakistan/

  9. Rehmat says:
    @marwan

    Good try to spread your Zionist hatred and bigotry under a Muslim ID.

    According to Amnesty International, the capital of sex slavery is Jewish State of Israel, while its capital city Tel Aviv is home to 280 Jewish brothels.

    Indonesia is not “islamist”, but so Judeo-Christian that in August 2015, under pressure from the US and Canadian embassy presure it set free Canadian Jewish teacher Neil Bantleman, who was arrested for sexually abusing three minors at the Jakarta Intercultural School (JIS).

    http://rehmat1.com/2015/08/16/indonesia-canadian-pedophile-teacher-freed/

  10. Gene Su says:

    I want to comment on some points in this article:

    [Kerwick] Inasmuch as this phenomenon of Islamic-on-non-Islamic cruelty transpires throughout Africa and the Middle East, it transcends ethnicity, nationality, and culture.

    [Me] That is very true. What is also true is that there is a great deal of Muslim on Muslim violence. The Wahhabi sect is obsessed with not just the extermination of Christians and non-Muslims but any Muslims they deem heretics like Shi-tite, Alawite, Bahai, and “moderates”. If they murder so many of their own, then it’s not unreasonable for expect for them to behave similarly to “us”.

    [Mercer] Slavery was abolished by white Christians; it is still practiced robustly—even religiously regulated—by some Muslims.

    [Me] You’ll never learn this from talking to an African American Muslim. They think that only Christians have been slave masters. Did you know that one year before Malcolm X made the Hajj, Saudi Arabia abolished slavery? They didn’t want to alienate their most important African American convert. If that isn’t “taquiyya,” I don’t know what is.
    Islam has been presented as a religion that has been fair and just to all races – an universal brotherhood. Yet I hear that there is a great deal of racism in the Arab world. Can anyone back me up on that?

    [Kerwick] It’s revealing in that it suggests that those who have been reviled for noting the impulse for militancy within the Islamic tradition just may have been on to something all along, for it is precisely the perception of militancy that appeals to those blacks who feel alienated from mainstream American culture.
    [Me] In the 60’s, conservatives warned about the attraction of Communism to Negros. They were laughed at as paranoid racists. I think that whatever the danger posed by a Black Communist alliance, the danger posed by a Black Muslim alliance is far greater.
    This is not just because of the evil that Islam does but also the good. The Nation of Islam has set blacks on the straight and narrow. It has made men honorable and women chaste. This is perhaps the greatest cure to the problems of illegitimacy and crime in the black community.
    Of course, there is a very dark side to all this. They say that shooter in Oregon was a “mulatto” who converted to Islam. Can anyone back me up on this?

    [Kerwick] Combatting the RIC is no easy task. The only way that I can think of to fight this juggernaut is to cut through the rhetoric and unmask—continually unmask—this self-serving sham for what it is.
    [Me] I agree with Mercer and Kerwick in that far too much guilt (or sentimentality) has been wasted on the Negro. Having said that, blacks remember the hundred offenses committed against them by whites (and especially, the white elites). They remember the unions locking them out of their jobs and the Klan murdering blacks. They put up with the crumby schools and the silly war on drugs. I think one day, white Americans are going to realize they messed with the *WWRROOOONNG* people.

    • Replies: @marwan
    , @Talha
  11. marwan says:
    @Rehmat

    Wrong.And also thanks but no thanks for all of your takiyah , tawriya and kitman , we didn’t order any !!!!

    To the topic at hand . Indonesia is currently illegal occupying west papua and has been doing so since 1963 . islamist Indonesia has an illegal settlement policy of ethnic cleansing in its christian provinces called transmigrasi . islamist Indonesia has been committing genocide in west papua against the native christian population to the tune of 500,000 killed since 1963 .

    In your supposed judo christian indonesia , it is illegal for a church to be built on a street that is named after a muslim . Indonesia is an apartheid state like all islamic states . It is much more difficult to build a church or hindu temple than it is to build a mosque . Indonesians are intolerant and throw bags of urine at christians who are walking to attend christmas services . http://news.nationalpost.com/news/world/indonesia-angry-mob-hurls-bags-of-urine-at-christians .

    • Replies: @Rehmat
  12. marwan says:
    @Gene Su

    Islam has been presented as a religion that has been fair and just to all races – an universal brotherhood. Yet I hear that there is a great deal of racism in the Arab world. Can anyone back me up on that?

    Sir
    In colloquial arabic , black people are referred to as “abed” which means slave .
    In fact muslims started the slave trade ,and as western nations all abolished slavery before 1900 , many muslims states continued to allow slaves until recently with the islamic republic of mauritania leading the way as the current day slave capital of the world . islamic republic of mauritania is 100% muslim. The arab ruling class owns black slaves , and its ingrained in their culture . of course mohamad owned slaves and its incumbent on every muslim to emulate him . draw your conclusions on that .

    http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2012/03/world/mauritania.slaverys.last.stronghold/

    • Replies: @Talha
  13. Art says:

    As philosophical Christians we find Islam to be very backwards. Its treatment of women is anti-human. Its reference to God in everything is not correct or productive. The ever repeated phrase “God willing” turns over to a deity what in reality is our personal responsibility.

    Why are all these long standing Christian communities now being attacked in the ME by Islam? Could it be because their people are being bombed by Christian countries?

    Hmm? Could that possibly be? Does one and one make two?

    Maybe if we stop attacking them the problem will go away? Is that possible – could we try that?

    No – of course not – the Jew Empire has not gotten all the Muslim land that it wants. (Our government is part of the Jew Empire.)

    • Replies: @marwan
  14. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Muslims have been in continual conflict with all others that it’s come into contact with, sometimes dormant for awhile then flaring up again. This is contained within it’s very nature and is not just a onetime thing. What’s frustratingly apparent is that Americans and other westerners are completely clueless regarding Islam. Millions of Christians have had experience with it and yet no westerner ever even bothers to listen to them. Ask any Armenian or Greek what they think. The problem lies at the very core of Islam, with it’s founder. When one looks into his life history one comes away appalled by his blood-lust, brutality, slaving and utter barbarism. Who would want to follow such a monstrosity? Of course his followers are a problem for everyone everywhere, it just logically follows from that, a poison seed will sprout poisoned fruit. Americans are generally blissfully unaware like the extinct Dodo bird was, influenced by cheap sermons on what is the right and moral thing to do.

    • Agree: IA
  15. marwan says:
    @Art

    Is indonesia being bombed by christians ?
    The answer is of course NO .
    Why then are they murdering their christian population ?
    The indonesian government has killed half a million christians in occupied papua since 1963 .
    Why are they doing it and why doesn’t the media cover it ?

    • Replies: @Art
  16. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @marwan

    pretty obsessed with jews . seems like they got total control of your mind , bro.

    Most likely he’s hasbara and the stuff posted is standard cut-and-paste stuff that appears all over Unz.com. It’s kind of smart because it prevents normal people from linking to it or forwarded to other people for fear they might be associated with such comments.

  17. marwan says:

    And a very merry christmas from the religion of peace !!!!
    150 muslim guerillas in southern Philippines kidnapped 7 unarmed christian farmers on christmas and murdered them . When the police attempted to retrieve the dead bodies for burial the islamic militants fired on the military . Merry christmas from peaceful muslims !!!!!!!!!!

    http://news.yahoo.com/philippine-muslim-guerrillas-murder-seven-christmas-eve-raids-140052982.html

  18. Art says:
    @marwan

    “The indonesian government has killed half a million christians in occupied papua since 1963 .”

    In the 50’s, 60’s, and 70’s we could support the devil as long as he was not a commie.

    Indonesia is not the ME – different place, different times.

    Still think that us killing them in the ME – is why they want to kill us.

    Before the Jew Empire came along 65 years go we had no trouble with the ME peoples.

    • Replies: @marwan
  19. Wally [AKA "BobbyBeGood"] says: • Website

    Who were the real slavemasters?

    Black academic Dr. Tony Martin sets everyone straight.
    Dr. Martin, let’s us know who the prime owners of slaves really were.

    see:
    Suppressing Jewry’s Role in Slavery / Familiar Tactics
    http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7909

    and:
    Dr. Tony Martin – The Jewish Role in the African Slave Trade

    • Replies: @marwan
  20. marwan says:
    @Wally

    Good try at taqqiah .
    The slave trade today is 100% muslim .
    The last slave trading state in existence is the Islamic republic of Mauritania .
    600,000 slaves currently in the Islamic republic of Mauritania .
    Black slaves owned by arab muslim rulers .

    http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2012/03/world/mauritania.slaverys.last.stronghold/index.html

    • Replies: @Regnum Nostrum
  21. marwan says:
    @Art

    I see you are still unable to provide your opinion on why Islamic Indonesia has been committing genocide on the native christians in occupied Papua .

    • Replies: @Art
    , @Talha
  22. @marwan

    CNN, a very reliable source. The so called slavers of the woman, the main character of the story, could not be confronted and remain nameless. Even CNN calls them alleged slavers. The translator of the interviews with people relating the stories also remains nameless for security reasons. It sounds like so many sensational stories from anonymous sources. By the way how do you define slavery.

    • Replies: @marwan
  23. Rehmat says:
    @marwan

    Thanks but no thanks for supporting your Israeli filth and lies by quoting Canadian Zionist Jewish filth – The National Post. Why didn’t you try your other much bigger Zionist Jewish filth – Wikipedia?

    Here is a Christian source which claims Israeli Jews were behind Bali bombing Indonesia.

    http://www.sweetliberty.org/issues/israel/blackops.html

    • Replies: @marwan
  24. marwan says:
    @Regnum Nostrum

    here is another source
    http://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2013/sep/12/black-mauritania-slavery-un

    and another
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/4091579.stm

    The fact that slavery done 150 + years ago by western counties is constantly criticized over a century later , yet modern slavery is ignored because its only muslims participating is very troubling .

  25. marwan says:

    Slavery abolition timeline .
    Presented without commentary

    Russia : 1861
    USA : 1863
    Brazil : 1888
    Korea : 1894
    China : 1906
    Qatar : 1952
    Saudi Arabia : 1962
    Yemen : 1962
    Mauritania : 2007

    And just remember folks , all muslims are commanded in the koran to emulate the life of mohamed. Mohamed was a slave owner .

  26. marwan says:
    @Rehmat

    Indonesia conducted a trial and convicted 3 muslims for the bali bombings : Imam Samudra, Amrozi Nurhasyim and Ali Ghufron . All three were sentenced to death and executed . Omar Patek also muslim was convicted of material help and sentenced to 20 years . Bali bombings killed 202 people. The indonesian occupation of West Papua has resulted in the genocide of 500,000 martyrs of the native Papuan Christians population . It is time for Indonesia to end the occupation .

  27. Art says:
    @marwan

    “I see you are still unable to provide your opinion on why Islamic Indonesia has been committing genocide on the native christians in occupied Papua .”

    Because they are Muslim tribalists. Because they can. Because the media will not report on it?

    My guess is that the Jew controlled media just does not give a dam about Christian livess – what do you think?

    Sorry but when you kill someone their relative want to kill you – it has always been that way and it will always be that way.

    We have done a lot of killing in the Muslim ME.

    You sound like someone who wants to justify more killing????

  28. martin_2 says:
    @Singh

    “Or the hundreds millions starved by Britain”

    Could you elucidate? If you mean the Indian subcontinent then when Britain was in charge the population increased dramatically. In 1800 the population was 185 million, by 1950 it was 450 million, so the population went up by 265 million during British involvement. How is this possible if hundreds of millions starved? Can you explain?

  29. @Rehmat

    “…but there is no record any church being destroyed to use as stable, nightclub, mosque or playground in any of Muslim state….”

    Hagia Sophia. I really don’t have time to enumerate the hundreds of thousands of counterexamples to your factually absurd statement but this is the most prominent and should suffice. All your other assertions are just as false but like I just wrote, I don’t have time to waste countering the endless nonsense spouted by ignorant, mohammed-worshipping fools.

    • Replies: @Talha
  30. Bliss says:

    Mercer: Slavery was abolished by white Christians

    Kerwick: Though, as you mention, white Christians of the 18th century spearheaded a moral revolution that resulted in the abolition of slavery around the world

    Dishonest self-serving BS. The abolition of slavery occurred some 1500 years after christianity became the state religion of the West. Why do you think white christians condoned slavery and serfdom for so long? As late as the mid-19th century white christian slavers were using the Bible to justify slavery:

    http://www.csapartisan.com/jefferson_davis_quotes.html

    It [slavery] was established by decree of Almighty God…it is sanctioned in the Bible, in both Testaments, from Genesis to Revelation....Let the gentleman go to Revelation to learn the decree of God – let him go to the Bible…I said that slavery was sanctioned in the Bible, authorized, regulated, and recognized from Genesis to Revelation…Slavery existed then in the earliest ages, and among the chosen people of God; and in Revelation we are told that it shall exist till the end of time shall come. You find it in the Old and New Testaments – in the prophecies, psalms, and the epistles of Paul; you find it recognized, sanctioned everywhere.”. (Jefferson Davis, President of the Confederate States of America)

    What happened in the 18th century that led to the rise of Abolitionism? The anti-church Enlightenment Movement. Give credit where it’s due.

    By the way Ms Mercer, it was also the Enlightenment Movement not the Church that liberated your jewish ancestors from the ghettos of western Europe:

    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=120652968

    • Replies: @Bliss
    , @Hibernian
    , @Reg Cæsar
  31. Talha says:

    aTo begin, there is no doubt and is a historical fact that the worldwide abolition of slavery was spearheaded by white Christians (specifically Anglo-Saxons) who, due to the enormous influence of the British Empire over 1/4 to 1/3 of the world’s population was able to pressure other nations to follow suit. This also coincided with the fact that the Industrial Revolution was well underway and that developing nations could conceivably get rid of slavery as it was now anachronistic and even a liability (machines were much cheaper and more reliable than slaves). On top of that the world as a whole (eventually) came to the same unanimous decision that we want to leave slavery behind us – this included the Ottomans and the other sultanates of the world. This is a point of historical fact.

    And, being a Muslim, I do agree with Mr. Kerwick, that – unfortunately – Muslims are in a very sanguinary mood as a whole right now. This has to stop. If some idiot burns a Qur’an in the US, one or two churches are burnt down in Pakistan and the Christians have to stay low for a while. I am also originally from Pakistan and find this ‘tribalism’ completely reprehensible. Some commentators mention the brutality of Indonesia in it’s occupation of Papau New Guinea, but they forgot to mention the brutal occupation (recently ended) of East TiImor. Both of these is reprehensible (morally and in direct conflict with international law of which Indonesia is a signatory) and the subjugation and slaughter of the innocents is abhorrent and those have committed such crimes will face justice on the Day of Judgement (that includes the nations in the West that supported Indonesia politically and militarily during the conflict). These are reasonable and good points.

    Now onto the embarrassment…I would be personally embarrassed to allow my words in print on a topic of which I am so profoundly ignorant as to be able to be contradicted by somebody with 5 minutes to spare and an internet connection…

    1. “Unsurprisingly, the Qur’an not only authorizes, but commands, the practice of slavery.” Please find one – just one verse where the Qu’ran actually “commands” the taking of slaves (not permit, but “command”). In contrast, the Qur’an stands as the only religious scripture that not only encourages emancipation of slaves (“And what will make you comprehend what the uphill road is? (It is) the setting free of a slave; Or the giving of food in a day of hunger; To an orphan near of kin; Or to the indigent (down) in the dust.” 90:12-13 – this is said in prose stating that the first of the encouraged acts of taking the moral path is to free a slave – even my 8 year old and his friends have this chapter memorized) it ties the freeing of slaves to a pillar of the religion (emancipation of slaves is one of the 8 categories that zakat is spent on). Islam came into a world where slavery was the universal norm practiced by every religion and every people, it set down regulations for it and encouraged emancipation.
    2. “Moreover, Muhammad owned slaves, and—this is crucial—observant Muslims are expected to emulate the example of ‘The Prophet.’” Complete ignorance. This is a point that Salafis completely err on due to their lack of principles of jurisprudence (which is probably why Mr. Kerwick and they have come to the same conclusion. There are many acts that the Prophet (pbuh) did or witnessed and stayed quiet about that allude only to their not being explicitly prohibited. In fact there are acts that he did which are categorized as ‘disliked’ for instance divorce. The Shafi’i school of law even considers polygamy to be discouraged though they know about the fact that both he and his Companions (may God be pleased with them) had multiple wives. Again, he sounds like a plumber discussing the validity of Einstein’s Relativity Theory, stick to your profession Prof…
    3. “That Islam—or at least a racialized version of it—has attracted scores of black Americans, to say nothing of black American criminals, over the decades is no secret. This connection between black Americans and Islam is at once revealing and troubling. It’s revealing in that it suggests that those who have been reviled for noting the impulse for militancy within the Islamic tradition just may have been on to something all along, for it is precisely the perception of militancy that appeals to those blacks who feel alienated from mainstream American culture. After all, it isn’t Buddhism, Hinduism, Confucianism, Taoism or some other non-Western faith to which they’re gravitating, but Islam.” Seriously, Imam Warith Dean Muhammad is a radical? Are you out of your mind? Have you heard any of his lectures – they are online for anyone interested. If you are taking about the Nation of Islam then that is a different matter since they aren’t considered Muslims by the Orthodox Sunni faith if they still cling onto that God-incarnate-in-Fard-Muhammad business). The reason so many African Americans are turning to Islam instead is because it is part of their heritage for many of them (look at the demographics of West Africa) and it is also the easiest to transition to from Christianity (you get to keep Jesus [pbuh] and just add some of the rules already present in the Old Testament). And I have met many of these men, they used to be violent, drug dealing thugs – they are honorable men now and in high demand in the African American community where women are desperate for men that have a sense of family and responsibility.
    4. There is no doubt that Mauritania (and probably Western Sahara) has slavery there. I have spoken to people who have traveled through there and seen them. They are mostly in the expanse of the desert where few would tread. When Europe is able to completely wipe out its underground sex-slavery trade, maybe then it can give pointers to a dirt-poor government that has little police projection powers beyond a few major cities. Western Sahara is a free-for-all – look it up.

    Ms. Mercer knows how to back up claims with references as noted by her many publications – but I am astounded by how casually she can just let this go to print. Does very little for her credibility (or Mr. Kerwick’s) as far as this topic is concerned. Either Mr. Kerwick is lying through his teeth or just completely ignorant of the topic on which he is offering opinions.

    • Replies: @Bliss
  32. Talha says:
    @Gene Su

    Yes – there is still palpable racism within some communities. Definitely within many of the Gulf Arabs. Again to blame it on Islam is ignorance…

    Reported by the Hadith scholar (Ibn al- Mubarak):
    “Some disagreement occurred between Abu Dharr and Bilal [who was a Black freed slave] (God be pleased with them both). As a result, Abu Dharr said to Bilal , “You son of a black woman.”
    The Messenger of Allah (pbuh) was extremely upset by Abu Dharr’s comment and rebuked him saying, “That is too much, Abu Dharr. He who has a white mother has no advantage which makes him better than the son of a black mother.”
    This rebuke had a profound effect on Abu Dharr, who then put his head on the ground, swearing that he would not raise it until Bilal had put his foot on it.”

    From his (pbuh) last sermon:
    “All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety.” He said this in the presence of thousands upon thousands of people.

    If anybody can find any statement from him where he prefers Whites or Arabs over Blacks – find it…

  33. Talha says:
    @Jus' Sayin'...

    I’m a Muslim, but facts are facts. Unfortunately we do have (even today) instances of ignorant mob violence that burns down churches (recent examples are Pakistan and Egypt). Ignorant mobs are one thing though, there were brutal lynchings of Blacks in the US well into the 1930’s, perpetrated by a completely Christian crowd – but it would be completely disingenuous of me to place this at the feet of Christianity which does not condone that kind of behavior through any of its normative voices of Christian law or jurisprudence. Likewise, until someone can furnish proof that some knowledgeable scholar of Islam (specifically Sunni Orthodox – you can keep Wahhabi/Salafi opinions to yourself because they are a major part of the problem) or school has sanctioned the burning of a church, it is stupid to pin it on the religion itself.

    As Mufti Rafi Usmani (may God preserve him) – who served as the Grand Mufti of Pakistan – states simply in this interview (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4711003.stm):
    “…an angry young man is in no-one’s control,” he said.”
    Also simply stated by Mufti Ashraf Kashmiri:
    “Angry young Muslims are no longer satisfied with this doctrine [referring to not being able to strike at civilians in response to civilian casualties by the enemy],” he says.
    “That is why they go around to all kinds of ulema with dubious credentials to seek religious sanctions to deal with the rising tide of anger inside them,” he says.”

    • Replies: @epochehusserl
  34. Talha says:

    Oh and I forgot to mention:
    “The Bible’s teachings are contextualized within a narrative interpretive framework. The Qur’an, in glaring contrast, has no such framework. The kind of chronological or historical sequencing of events in the Bible is not to be found in the Qur’an.”

    That is donkey-like ignorance. Wow, I guess Muslim scholars from the four canonical Sunni Orthodox schools (some of them intellectual heirs of the Persian culture and the cultures of the Levant) had no clue what they were talking about with the science of asbab un-nuzul (http://www.altafsir.com/WahidiAsbabAlnuzul.asp), nor apparently did any of the earliest scholars of exegeses realize they had wasted decades of their lives expounded on a science/discipline that plain out didn’t exist.

    O that Mr. Kerwick could build a time machine to go back and warn them!

    Give a man a rope…and well…he’s bound to hang himself with it if he doesn’t know what he is doing.

  35. Whew. This Kerwick guy is a real psycho. Thanks for the warning.

    • Replies: @Talha
  36. Talha says:
    @marwan

    This one is easy. The nationalists want to expand territory – it’s pretty damn simple. They were doing the same to East Timor (also mostly Christian). But honestly, the religion is irrelevant, if they were animists, they would still be brutally occupied and crushed, they just happen to be Christian and a different ethno-lingual group from the Indonesian occupiers. You should look up what the government did when the province of Aceh (Muslim) wanted to secede – not pretty.

    Nationalists do pretty damn brutal things in trying to keep a territory together; please look up what West Pakistan did in Bangladesh (both Muslim peoples) and what the Turkish nationalists have been doing to the Kurds (again, both Muslim peoples). I am not going to mention the rapacious Spanish (Catholic) conquest of South America (animist/pagan) because I think we already know that story.

  37. Talha says:
    @John Jeremiah Smith

    Honestly, I don’t know if he is a ‘psycho’ per se. He may be a perfect gentleman to sit down and have tea with and discuss Catholicism or the poetry of T.S. Eliot and Ralph Waldo Emerson.

    Of Islam and its rudimentary sciences/disciplines/beliefs, he is profoundly ignorant as he as evidenced within a remarkably few paragraphs.

    If one wants to criticize Islam and Muslims from a factual basis or something with depth, totally welcome – but this ‘sticks and stones’ stuff is for the birds. And does more to completely sweep the rug of credibility out from under one’s feet than actually score any points. At least to an educated and rational audience.

    • Replies: @John Jeremiah Smith
  38. Talha says:
    @marwan

    Some of what you say is correct as far portions of Mauritania and even in certain parts of the Gulf states where people use ‘abd’ to refer to Black people. The whole ‘[he] owned slaves and its [sic] incumbent on every muslim to emulate him’ I already took care of in a previous post – again, I don’t know your intentions so I’m going to assume the best and chalk it up to lack of knowledge.

    Speaking of lack of knowledge – the statement ‘In fact muslims started the slave trade…’ – did you ever hear about the Vikings or the Greek city-states like Sparta maybe the Egyptian Pharaohs perhaps? Let’s not leave the Americas out of it; Mayans and Aztecs – big time! Unless you mean Muslims started slavery in Muslim lands – then yes – guilty as charged.

  39. Bliss says:
    @Talha

    In fact there are acts that he [Muhammad] did which are categorized as ‘disliked’

    The Koran does tell muslims to take Muhammad as their role model:

    You have an excellent model in the Messenger of Allah, for all who put their hope in Allah and the Last Day

    Anyone who “dislikes” some of the acts of Muhammad has no faith in Allah. Why is he still a muslim? He is a hypocrite, and terrible tortures await him in eternal Hell:

    Those who reject Our Signs, We shall soon cast into the Fire. As often as their skins are roasted through, We shall change them for fresh skins, that they may taste the penalty. (The Koran)

    http://ualr.edu/islam/?page_id=111

    The importance of the status of Prophet Muhammad as a role model is defined in the Holy Quran and in the sunnah; this constitutes one of the foremost practices for Muslims.

    There is no disagreement among Muslims as to the fact that Prophet Muhammad constitutes the best example with his morality, actions, words and other features.

    It would not be correct to demote the Prophet’s status as role model to a limited number of fields. This status is related to all fields of life.

    Prophet Muhammad’s status as role model and the validity of the sunnah are not limited to his life or to a certain time period. The Holy Quran and the notions of the sunnah state this issue clearly, and the fact that Muslim community practices his sunnah is proof of this issue.

    Prophet Muhammad’s status as role model and the continuity of his sunnah are the most important components that provide a unifying force in the Muslim world.”

    • Replies: @Talha
  40. @Talha

    The brutal lynchings of blacks mostly happened as a response to black criminality and social dysfunction such as the high number of black on white rapes today. Lack of white racial solidarity resulted in over 1400 white children being sexually trafficked in rotterham uk, just one town alone. I have never heard it explained to me what is so beneficial to whites about having non whites around. Non whites and muslims move to get away from non whites and muslims. Then they start complaining about whites and non muslims. Its the magic dirt theory in action folks. What non white or muslim country would I go to? None! The quran itself condones violence and islam was founded by violence. The islamic world also condones polygamy and inbreeding. What benefit do these people bring to white nations? Lets say that the us becomes an islamic and non white nation. Then where would non whites and muslims move to?

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Gene Su
  41. @Talha

    Acknowledged.

    I find it a bit disturbing, from a viewpoint of the intellectual
    advantage of maintaining a certain degree of spiritual detachment
    (when examining “other” religions). Something along the lines of
    “What has academia become — since it is no longer an unbiased forum
    for study and analysis?”

  42. Talha says:
    @Bliss

    Correct – no doubt about the following statement:
    “There is no disagreement among Muslims as to the fact that Prophet Muhammad constitutes the best example with his morality, actions, words and other features.”

    Again this is where someone who lacks decades of the requisite knowledge to understand sacred law stumbles. As I have said before this is not a boy scout religion. It is a fine point that even though Muslims are indeed exhorted to follow as much of the ‘sunnah’ as possible, but not everything the Prophet (pbuh) did is considered a ‘sunnah’.

    As a contemporary scholar (Shaikh Nuh Keller) wrote, in one of his refutations of the Salafi/Wahhabi approach to sacred texts:
    Some actions that the Prophet (pbuh) took are not categorized as ‘Sunnah’, rather it was to “teach the Umma that it was not unlawful (haram), but rather merely offensive (makruh)–though in relation to the Prophet such actions were not offensive, but rather obligatory to do at least once to show the Umma they were not unlawful.”

    There are actions of his which have been reported as been abrogated by later actions and actions which have to be contextualized with other seemingly contradictory actions. This is basic knowledge for scholars of jurisprudence and juristic principle (usool) and has been for centuries.

  43. Talha says:
    @epochehusserl

    First let me start by saying, again I am Muslim and originally from Pakistan. However, I do recognize the great cultural impact and contribution of the Anglo-Saxon culture (and her offshoots – like the US) on the world. The Magna Carta, Bill of Rights, tremendous scientific contributions, etc. cannot be overlooked. I am a beneficiary of these contributions and must lay credit where credit is due, after all, a Hadith states; “He who does not thank people, does not thank Allah.” There of course have been bad sides to Anglo-Saxon influence on the world, but I am trying to stay positive. I can empathize with you in your concern with these Muslim criminals and thugs. When I heard about the Rotterham thing, I was deeply incensed. These people have no right to be behaving in such a way and deserve whatever punitive measures they get – I will not become an apologist for Muslim criminal behavior, for as the Qur’an states; “O you who believe! Stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allah, even as against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin…” 4:135

    As for your other statements…well…

    Of course the Qur’an condones violence in its proper place and sets down regulations for it – ask any of the colonial powers that tried to subjugate the Muslim lands from Morocco to Malaysia – them Muslims don’t lay down easy.

    Correction: the first foundational 13 years of preaching in Mecca were specifically pacifist (this is a matter of historical fact) thus it is not (factually) founded in violence. The Muslims did fight against the Meccans once they established the city-state of Madinah (after being exiled from Mecca). Later on, once the Muslims had enough military strength, they smashed the Byzantine and Persian Empires. I don’t think there is any need for Muslims to apologize for militarily dismantling the empires of the age. Byzantium and Persia were not NGOs, they were empires that also made no apologies in attacking or expanding their territories when it was militarily expedient. People assume because Muslims destroyed the empire, they then forced conversion on its people. This is completely false. In fact, the first few Umayyad rulers did NOT accept conversions. Why – because the funds from jizyah were fungible and they were able to use it to bankroll their lifestyle while zakat (from Muslims) is not. Anybody can look into the historical Church of the East whose leaders fled into Persia as a result of exile from the Roman Empire for their heretical views, they were not regarded well by the Zoroastrian leadership, and eventually found favor and protection under the early Muslim caliphates. Were there not historical instances where Christians (and others were forced into conversion) or even pogroms? Sure there were (look at the al-Mohads of Spain – very similar to the Salafi/Wahhabi of their age), but specific exceptions to the rule.

    Islam condones polygamy, 100% true. You are obviously not from a tribal culture so you wouldn’t understand. City/urban dwelling cultures are not traditionally polygamous and Europe has not been tribal for a while. I come also from a city-dwelling Muslim culture and polygamy in practically unheard of in our people. Otherwise, from Polynesia to Africa to native tribes of South America – tribal people (Muslim or not) are polygamous. Islam is a universal religion and accommodates that lifestyle (within limits – maximum 4 wives). Look at the anthropological breakdown (from 1998) of almost 1250 distinct cultures on our planet (section ‘9: Marital Composition’). Strictly monogamous cultures are in the minority (15-20%) – the rest of the world is occasionally or frequently polygamous. If you don’t like it, fine, leave other people alone and recognize the cultural bias in your assumptions.
    http://eclectic.ss.uci.edu/~drwhite/worldcul/Codebook4EthnoAtlas.pdf

    Inbreeding? What? You mean incest – if so, that is categorically false. Muslims can’t even marry a person whom they share a foster mother (breastfeeding) with. If you mean cousins, again that is a cultural thing which was even practiced in the US by certain sections of the White and Christian population well into the 20th century and is not – by any means – illegal.

    Do you really seriously fear the US becoming Muslim even though Muslims are just 1-2% of the population? If so, I would posit that you have a lot less confidence in the stability and foundation of Western and Christian culture than I do. Those that are becoming Muslim in the US do so out of free will – there is no threat of force here – so if we eventually find the population is all of a sudden 60% Muslim, it will simply be because people liked what it had to offer.

    Look, one doesn’t have to like Islam. One doesn’t even have to stop speaking against it. But I think one should be factual in their approach rather than spew off sound bites. That is just civil and rational discourse.

    • Replies: @marwan
    , @Bliss
    , @epochehusserl
  44. marwan says:
    @Talha

    Inbreeding in islamic society is endemic.
    Every year an estimated 8 million children–6
    percent of total births worldwide–are born with a serious birth defect of genetic or partially genetic origin. Additionally, hundreds of thousands more are born with serious birth defects of post- conception origin due to maternal exposure to environmental agents. At least 3.3 million children less than 5 years of age die annually because of serious birth defects and the majority of those who survive may be mentally and physically disabled for life.
    This report from the March of Dimes is the first to provide a global estimate of serious birth defects of genetic or partly genetic origin. It details the birth prevalence rates and the numbers of affected births in 193 countries.

    According to a global report on birth defects
    which was conducted in 2006, 21 out of 22 countries most affected by birth defects per 1000 live births are Muslim majority countries and the following
    countries are the ones most affect by birth
    defects per 1000 live births:
    1. Sudan 82.0/1000
    2. Saudi Arabia 81.3/1000
    3. Benin 77.9/1009
    4. Burkina Faso 77.0/1000
    5. Palestinian territories 76.6/1000
    6. United Arab Emirates 75.9/1000
    7. Tajikistan 75.2/1000
    8. Iraq 74.9/1000
    9. Kuwait 74.9/1000
    10. Afghanistan 74.8/1000
    11. Oman 74.8/1000
    12. Syria 74.3/1000
    13. Pakistan 73.5/1000
    14. Nigeria 73.5/1000
    15. Kyrgyzstan 73.4/1000
    16. Qatar 73.4/1000
    17. Bahrain 73.3/1000
    18. Jordan 73.1/1000
    19. Libya 73.0/1000
    20. Tunisia 72.7/1000
    21. Morocco 72.3/1000
    22. Yemen 72.1/1000

    Source

    Inbreeding which involves marriage between cousins is an islamically valid and approved practise.
    Inbreeding is a major cause of birth defects in children so its very likely that the whole cousin marriage thing has a huge role to play in recorded high rates of birth defects in Muslim countries.

    https://dcgazette.com/2014/muslim-inbreeding-may-genetic-catastrophe/#

    http://www.nairaland.com/1448664/muslim-countries-found-highest-rates

    • Replies: @epochehusserl
    , @Talha
  45. @Singh

    Communism was anti-Christian. And if we dare mention its origins..

  46. Bliss says:
    @Talha

    Islam condones polygamy, 100% true. You are obviously not from a tribal culture so you wouldn’t understand. City/urban dwelling cultures are not traditionally polygamous and Europe has not been tribal for a while. I come also from a city-dwelling Muslim culture and polygamy in practically unheard of in our people.

    Show us where in the Koran and Hadith it says that polygamy does not apply to urban cultures. Mohammad is the role model for muslims in all places, and all times.

    Medina was not a rural village, it was a city-state ruled by Mohammad himself, and he and his companions legally practiced polygamy there. And sex with female slaves. And slavery. And caravan robbery. Etc. If you “dislike” these acts of Muhammad , why are you still a muslim? Because you are afraid to be beheaded for apostasy?

    • Replies: @Talha
  47. @Talha

    I just dont see the purpose of forcing incompatible people into the same political entity. Is it not wise to make sure that people share the same habits, loyalties, understandings, interpretations of historical events and perceptions of friend and foe? On this thread alone we have see accusations of malice against whites, christians, muslims and jews. The sikh on this board wants to avenge the events from the partition. I dont have an answer for that. Obama wants to remind us that the future must not belong to those that insult the prophet while we all get ready for transgender movie night. I cannot be culturally sensitive to mutually incompatible groups because I am a reality racist who is bigoted towards truth. As far as not coming from a tribal culture, you are right I dont come from one. As a white prole I question why I have to put up with tribal palestinian student groups arguing with tribal zionists on federally funded college campuses. The government gives people an opportunity to better themselves and this is what they come up with? To watch tribalism on college campuses is like watching savages demand the right to taxpayer funded books so they can throw them at each other. What you dont want to comprehend is that people have different understandings so these discussions are pointless, and I dont think there will be enough social trust to make things work. I dont hate islamic people, I just see why you think I would care. We dont need more protected classes.

    • Replies: @Talha
  48. @marwan

    And the lower iq averages of those people, but I forgot iq is a white supremacist concept. The nativist in me has cultural bias against those who display islamic inbreeding privilege. This whole conversation is trending towards hate speech.

  49. Talha says:
    @marwan

    OK – so the approach is to educate and spread this info so people can make informed decisions about their marriage partners. Islam merely allows this practice – I have never seen any text anywhere or any ruling (from an Islamic viewpoint – not cultural) that says it is even encouraged to marry within cousins. Please prove me wrong find me one statement from 1400 years of Muslim scholarship that says it is ‘Islamically’ preferential to marry one’s cousin.

    This is a matter for people of various cultures to hash out based on the evidence at hand. And based on what I’m seeing, they should discourage this for a while until things shape up.

    Without even looking at that list I new Iran was not going to be in the top 25 because Persians haven’t been big on marrying cousins for a long time. Again – culture…

    • Replies: @marwan
    , @Bliss
  50. Talha says:
    @epochehusserl

    Bro, I feel for you even if I don’t agree with a bunch of stuff you’ve just said. I understand the frustration in this confusing, crazy world. Not asking for more protected classes – just asking for a fair shake at being able to contribute to society. And I’m praying for a better tomorrow for you and yours…

    • Replies: @Epochehusserl
  51. Talha says:
    @Bliss

    You misunderstand…polygamy IS VALID for all peoples of all times. Non-tribal (and mostly city-dwelling) people just choose not to participate on a large scale. If you want to know why – go ask them. They will tell you their reasons for opting out even though it is an option, it varies from culture to culture.

    Yes, Madinah was a city, but all the people there were tribal, same reason why the Jews of the same city also practiced polygamy. Same reason why you’ll see polygamy in the UAE even though most of them live in cities – one generation ago they were tribal desert dwellers.

    Slavery entailed sexual access to the slave. This was practiced universally; Vikings, Aztecs, Chinese, Japanese, Muslims, Christians, Jews – you name it – if they had slaves, they were having sex with them. Even Southern Christian gentlemen of Ante-bellum US like Thomas Jefferson (who was a very honorable man in my estimation) had sex with their slaves. In this practice, the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) differed no more than his progenitor, our Master Abraham (pbuh), who also had his first son with his slave.

    Caravan robbery – ahem, you mean economic sanctions/blockade? This is a subset of principle strategies in siege warfare, modern and ancient. In WW2, our navy (US) sank millions of tons of shipping of Japanese cargo; if it left the harbor and entered international water, our submarines sank it. It was irrelevant if it was carrying fuel, weapons, bananas, toys – if we found it, we sank it. It happens today; if an unarmed truck carrying fuel leaves ISIS territory, we bomb it – no questions asked – nobody in the UN complains. The theory is simple, economic gain based on exports allows the enemy to finance their aggression. Today it is fuel trucks, in ancient times it was caravans. If you want to research this further there are plenty of books that expound on the basic principles of warfare in ancient times among various ancient peoples; Professor David Nicolle (Phd Edinborough Univ.) is highly, highly recommended.

    • Replies: @Bliss
  52. marwan says:
    @Talha

    I never said it was preferential for one to marry a cousin . I merely said that its endemic in the islamic world and provided statistics to prove the grim results .

    • Replies: @Talha
  53. Talha says:
    @marwan

    Then I think we both are agreement on your conclusions. And yes – time for them to wake up and people like me to spread the word…

  54. @Talha

    What specifically do you not agree with? Everyone wants a chance to contribute, I am sorry if I dont have much sympathy for the civil rights leaders who deny the existence of human intelligence or people who become outraged by the fact that people dont want to subsidize third world inbreeding. The illegitimacy rate in the black community is 75 percent, should they be at the top of the food chain? Lets give women who have an iq of 65 the right to fornicate in a public library bathroom library at age 14 and express disdain to not expect them to reach the middle class. What specifically benefits white people from being around non whites? You can say that im divisive but what brings us together? How can I accommodate kaitlyn jenner and the imam down the street? Diverse perspectives are needed but not those that are politically incorrect. What is the appropriate response to seeing tribal status posturing using the word privilege by people who dont have the slightest interest in how things are made, distributed or financed? Sheer joy? What am I saying that you dont agree with? I dont want you to go anywhere I would just like to be able to create legal entities that dont include non-whites or muslims. What is so threatening about this prospect?

    • Replies: @Talha
  55. Bliss says:
    @Talha

    Islam merely allows this practice – I have never seen any text anywhere or any ruling (from an Islamic viewpoint – not cultural) that says it is even encouraged to marry within cousins.

    Muslims are advised by the Koran to take Muhammad as their role model, and among Muhammad’s many wives was his first cousin Zaynab. What does that tell you?

    Btw, cousin marriage is found in the Bible as well. And worse: Abraham married his half-sister Sarah.

    • Replies: @Talha
  56. @Tom_R

    Furthermore, there is hatred for ALL goyim in the Torah/Tanakh and the Talmud. The whole delusion of Judaists being “God’s chosen people” is basically akin to hatred for all others.

    Careful my brother! Unz is one of them. And I’ve uncovered evidence that Sailer is a Jew on his mothers brothers side. Derb too on his fathers sisters side. Can’t say more, they’re watching me now. But I learned of secret global plot to wipe us out. They’re immune from some chemicals found in lox and cream cheese (bagels aren’t necessary I found out). Plus there’s a secret radiation shield inside their beanies that protects further from this satellite weapon Israel launched on zuckerbergs Facebook rocket funded by adelson and soros. Anyway, can’t say more now. They’re watching. Eat lox and cream cheese plus wear a beanie to live. Be safe brother!

  57. Bliss says:

    Caravan robbery – ahem, you mean economic sanctions/blockade?…… The theory is simple, economic gain based on exports allows the enemy to finance their aggression.

    Stupid and shameless lies. The murderous caravan robberies of Muhammad were all about capturing loot and ransom slaves. He was the first aggressor. The pagan Meccans had no choice but to retaliate.

    • Replies: @Talha
  58. Bliss says:
    @Talha

    Slavery entailed sexual access to the slave. This was practiced universally…..In this practice, the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) differed no more than his progenitor, our Master Abraham (pbuh), who also had his first son with his slave.

    It’s funny how these brainwashed immoral fools can’t see anything wrong with their supposedly holy and virtuous prophets forcibly fornicating with captured or bought slaves. How the hell is that different from what ISIS is doing today?

    • Replies: @Epochehusserl
  59. Gene Su says:
    @epochehusserl

    epochehusserl , Talha – I want to reply to both of you.

    Talha – From 1880 to 1960, about 3500 to 4000 blacks were lynched/murdered by whites. Mobs were motivated by rumors of murder, rape, or theft. However, from 1970 to now, about 3,500 to 4,000 blacks are murdered within the span of 2 years … by other blacks. That is correct! The black on black murder rate of today is 40 times that white on black murder rate of yesteryear. Lynching was a method of criminal punishment for people who didn’t have access to courts. During that same period, half as many whites were lynched as well.

    epochehusserl – Some blacks who were lynched were innocent of criminal wrong doing. The most famous example was Malcolm X’s father. The real problem was that white law enforcement and vigilante mobs refused to also punish blacks who preyed on black victims. The brutal hangings were only reserved for black hoodlums who preyed on whites. That is the reason why black America has a massive criminal component. Gary North has written about this.

    • Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome
  60. Talha says:
    @Bliss

    Bingo – out of his many wives – exactly 1 (uno, un, eins) was his cousin. If he wanted to specifically encourage cousin marriage, he had many chances to do so.

    Look, this is getting silly as I have tried multiple times to illustrate a fundamental point which you seem to ignore or misunderstand. In an earlier age you might have been a great proponent of the extinct school of law, the Dhahiri (Literalist) school, which is extinct exactly because of its inflexibility and resistance to the principle of analogical induction.

    You keep saying, over and over again, “Muslims are advised by the Koran to take Muhammad as their role model…” which is in principle true. I keep on mentioning that what that means (and what has been expounded by centuries of sound Sunni Orthodox scholarship) is that we are supposed to act upon the ‘Sunnah’ of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). Not everything that he actually did is classified within that category of the ‘Sunnah’ for his followers. For instance, he is known to have fasted two days consecutively without break in between. However, that act is prohibited for Muslims to follow him in – we are only allowed to fast exactly one day at a time and break it in the night time. This is just a simple example without going into the details of why that is the case – because each specific issue requires and exhaustive amount of detail – which even if I took the time to transcribe, would most like fall on deaf ears.

    Another example to illustrate the point…according to the principle that you keep repeating and the fact that he (pbuh) owned a camel (which is a fact), your conclusion would be that all Muslims who don’t own a camel and house it outside their home are hypocrites or severely lacking in their adherence to the example of the Prophet (pbuh). This is the conclusion from person A – that scores (on a scale of 0 to 10) maybe a 1 on their depth of understanding of the Arabic language (of 7th century Hijaz community).

    On the other hand, I can look to the Orthodox Sunni tradition from the primary formulators like Abu Hanifah, Malik, etc. down to the latter day sages like Nawawi, Suyuti, Thanawi etc. (may God be pleased with them all) who were giants of intellect, tremendous in their grasp of Arabic grammar and rhetoric, masters of Hadith transmission, geniuses in logical deduction, and had depth in their knowledge of Qur’anic exegesis – who would come to the opposite conclusion that if I do not tie a camel to my home outside Chicago, I am NOT being treasonous to the Prophetic model for mankind.

    If you can find one scholarly opinion from anyone with any credentials within the Sunni Orthodox tradition that says Muslims who do not own and ride camels are being neglectful of the ‘Sunnah’ – please, please find one.

    Honestly, I cannot spend anymore time on this topic. All the best to you.

    • Replies: @Bliss
  61. Talha says:
    @Bliss

    Alright, so I guess in contrast to every possible version of academic historical account of the life of the Prophet (pbuh) – both Muslim and non-Muslim – that he and his community were first forced and exiled out of Mecca, you have found ancient manuscripts that say otherwise…please present your sources.

    I have tried to keep the discussion academic and at this point anyone paying attention with an open intellect can decide whether they want to drink what you are offering.

    The Qur’an says; “…and have disputations with them in the best manner…” (16:125)

    As you seem to not be amenable to that, I bid you ‘Peace’…

    • Replies: @Bliss
  62. @Bliss

    People understand what they want to understand.

  63. Talha says:
    @Epochehusserl

    Hey look – if you want to create an all-whites club on some campus or start a White American Studies department, I could care less. I am not offended by that by any means. Any group has the right to be exclusionary within keeping of the non-aggression principle as far as I’m concerned. If people want to have whole housing tracts or communities and limit them to Whites or Jews or whatever, totally fine by me – everyone has a right to freedom of association in the States. I think it is stupid frankly to outlaw it.

    As a student of history (not just post 16th century), I just plumb don’t buy this whole white people is the bees knees stuff. Historically the world and its intellectual apex has been perched by many peoples in many places; Mayans, Chinese, Turks, Arabs, Greeks, Persians, Egyptians, etc. Some of them accomplished feats we are yet trying to puzzle through. And through much of that Europe and White people were mired in superstition and war.

    Right now, I look around the world, White people (Western European stock) basically rule it, but they seem to not keeping their birth rates up and pretty much indulging in self destructive sexual behavior (with few exceptions) – that’s not smart.

    Again, best to you and yours – may God safeguard you and your progeny for generations to come!

  64. @Talha

    The problem is that we dont have freedom of association. Plenty of people who pay nothing into the system would oppose it on the grounds of it being as white supremacist system. If you dont share my heritage I dont expect you to kowtow to my understandings – I just think we have too many protected classes some of whom dont like each other. Im sorry if I question the goodwill and motives of people who denounce intelligence testing as a way of resolving historical grievances as though historical grievances had not always existed but rather the latest manifestation of tall poppy syndrome. The reason that the white birth rate is collapsing is because the rearing of children has been turned into a communal and taxable event through the guise of racial and gender politcs. When one of the local daycares was set to lose federal funding they instantly started screaming racism and sexism. Many people of the left applaud these measures as a way of getting back at white men. They act as though demographic transformation is something that has nothing to do with policy.

  65. @Gene Su

    3500 to 4000 blacks were lynched/murdered by whites

    And whites could be lynched by blacks …

    The Abbeville press and banner., December 06, 1905, Image 8

    An alleged attempt to criminally assault Ida beavers, a six-year-old negro girl, so infuriated the negroes in the Darktown section of Atlanta that … a white man … came near being lynched.

    And blacks could be lynched by blacks…

    Omaha daily bee., October 25, 1900, Page 2, Image 2

    a negro was lynched by a mob of his own race for assaulting a colored girl.

    The Washington herald., January 14, 1908, Page 6, Image 6

    A mob of North Carolina negroes lynched the proprietor of a negro theatrical outfit because his show did not come up to the advance agent’s promises.

  66. @Talha

    I’ve enjoyed reading your posts and have learned from reading them, thanks. In addition you’ve been extremely patient and polite. I’d say you set a fine example for others to follow. Best wishes.
    BTW the expression is actually “couldn’t care less”. Could care less implies a degree of caring whereas couldn’t care less means none exists whatsoever. Common mistake in the Americas.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Hibernian
  67. Talha says:
    @NoseytheDuke

    And thank you, for both; reading with an open academic bent and correcting me with such etiquette.

    As my spiritual teacher is fond of reminding me; “Good etiquette, good fortune/fate – bad etiquette, bad fortune/fate” – sorry, sounds much more poetic in Persian or Urdu.

    May God preserve you and yours.

  68. Bliss says:
    @Talha

    Bingo – out of his many wives – exactly 1 (uno, un, eins) was his cousin. If he wanted to specifically encourage cousin marriage, he had many chances to do so.

    A very dishonest argument. You guys extol Muhammad for encouraging marriage to widows by setting the example himself. So on what basis can you deny that he also encouraged marriage to first cousins by setting the example? Why else is first cousin marriage so widespread in muslim nations? Your excuse of tribalism is pathetic BS, for most muslims are not even tribal. And if you think Muhammad was nothing but a primitive tribal why on earth do you follow his religion? By defending his immoral behaviour (capturing/buying/selling slaves, sex with female slaves, pedophilia, killing, robbing, fanatical intolerance, teaching of BS regarding heaven and hell etc etc) you are defending the likes of ISIS.

    Btw, Muhammad also legalized marriage of children to old men by setting the example with his marriage to Aisha, consummated when she was 9 years old (and he was in his mid-50s). Amuse us by justifying this perversion.

    • Replies: @epochehusserl
  69. Bliss says:
    @Talha

    Alright, so I guess in contrast to every possible version of academic historical account of the life of the Prophet (pbuh) – both Muslim and non-Muslim – that he and his community were first forced and exiled out of Mecca, you have found ancient manuscripts that say otherwise…please present your sources.

    Unfortunately for you the source is Allah his-self:

    They ask you concerning the sacred month about fighting in it. Say: Fighting in it is a grave matter, and hindering (men) from Allah’s way and denying Him, and (hindering men from) the Sacred Mosque and turning its people out of it, are still graver with Allah, and persecution is graver than slaughter (Qur’an 2:217)

    Muhammad started the slaughter by robbing a meccan caravan, and that too in a sacred month when slaughter was prohibited. The Koran justifies it by claiming that persecution is graver than slaughter.

    http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/muhammad/myths-mu-medina-persecution.htm

    There is absolutely no record of Meccan aggression against the Muslims at Medina in the first three years after their arrival in 622.

    Muhammad ordered the first raids against the Meccans a year after the hijra in February of 623, which eventually proved deadly. There is no record of Meccan aggression during this time.

    Word of an impending Muslim attack on a particularly rich caravan, prompted the Meccans to send an army out in defense, where they were goaded into battle and routed by the Muslims at Badr in March of 624.

    The Meccans avenged their loss at Badr (and the hostages that were cruelly executed by Muhammad) by routing the Muslims at Uhud, near Medina, in March of 625. If their ultimate objective had been to kill Muhammad and his followers, then they surely would have invaded the defenseless city and defeated them. They obviously did not have any interest in doing this.

    Muhammad behaved himself with the Meccans for one year, choosing to support himself instead by evicting local Jewish tribes and confiscating their property. Then he began attacking caravans in April of 626.

    After a year of renewed Muslim aggression, the Meccans responded by sending an army to Medina a year later in April of 627, where they failed in a siege that is known as the ‘Battle of the Trench.’

    • Replies: @Talha
  70. @Bliss

    Your arguments are culturally biased as the result of colonial imperialism. I am thinking about going back to school to become a historical grievance studies professor to find the intersectionality between islamic inbreeding privilege, zionist socialism and female genital mutilation. Anyone who opposes our research will be charged as racist while we laugh our way to the bank at the white working population being forced to subsidize our tribal status posturing. We just want a chance to contribute.

  71. Talha says:
    @Bliss

    May God forgive me for actually indulging your last reply in this regard…but it was (somewhat) academic – though from a completely disreputable “source” – not some academic work or even direct source material, but rather a site dedicated to polemics (diatribes really) and character assassination. If this kind of referencing is what passes for “reasoned discourse” in our day and age – Lord help us all. I do this not for your sake – you have made up your mind – your entire view of that early community is completely subjective so you will interpret events in that light (which is your choice and right) – but for the sake of anyone reading with some semblance of subjectivity…And I deign to dignify your other post (#68) with a response.

    As for the incident of Nakhlah, those men had never been commanded to fight, it was strictly an intelligence gathering party:
    http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=196
    “So, Abdullah designated one-fifth of the caravan for Allah’s Messenger and divided the rest among his companions. Ibn Ishaq also stated that at first, when the Sariyah came back to Allah’s Messenger , he said to them:
    I have not commanded you to conduct warfare during the Sacred Month.

    He left the caravan and the two prisoners alone and did not take any share of the war booty. When Allah’s Messenger did that, the soldiers from the attack were concerned and felt that they were destroyed, and their Muslim brethren criticized them for what they did.

    They were forgiven after the revelation exonerated those men, but their actions were not under the original orders of the Prophet (pbuh).

    You are correct in that Meccans did not send a war party against Madinah for a number of years and that evidence of what exactly? Only that they didn’t send a war party against them for a number of years.

    They had already (I specifically did NOT footnote or reference any of my bullet points since this are matters of historical record agreed on by both Muslim historians and Orientatlists):
    -Persecuted the Muslims until they were forced to migrate (the second time for some, since many had earlier migrated to Abyssinia due to the pressure)
    -Continued to persecute and torture those who were too poor to migrate
    -Pilfered the dwellings and property (which was technically still the property of the emigres) that they had left behind
    -Tried to kill the Prophet (pbuh) during his escape

    They never sued for peace or made any move indicating any change in their stance vis-a-vis the nascent Muslim community. As such, the two city-states (and their respective tribal allies) were on a war footing. The lack of Meccan aggression within the first few years can be chalked up to a number of reasons; lethargy, over-confidence, lack of resources – there is zero evidence it was due to change of heart.

    The ancient world was full of conflict, just one example the Byzantine-Sassanid wars. These were long affairs spanning decades and maybe centuries. A series of battles to expand territory would be followed by (sometimes) decades of (not peace), but simply no aggression by either party while the winner consolidated their newly conquered land and the loser reinforced and planned for the next counter-attack. A lull in the fight was zero proof that hostilities had officially abated. As I said, please educate yourself on basic principles of martial history of the ancient peoples, I mentioned Dr. David Nicolle, Dr. Martin van Creveld is another brilliant military historian.

    It is actually very indicative of your biases that you continue to treat the Meccans with kid gloves (any ‘barbaric’ custom one accuses the Prophet [pbuh] of practicing, they also did and worse – since he actually introduced reforms) and view them as the ‘innocent’ party when they were known to have tortured and killed unarmed Muslims (including women) in full public view. God help you if you were a slave like Bilal or Khabab (may God be pleased with them both) who were at times made to lie on cinders.

    Unfortunately, it is my fault for letting this get out of hand and I take responsibility for engaging with people in their (often-times ignorant) polemics against Islam in this thread – I should have let them go off the reservation and not followed. My initial intent was to simply point out to any objective reader that Mr. Kerwick, the main party in Ms. Mercer’s interview (though he may be a very talented and erudite man in other fields) has very little academic knowledge about Islam (as I deconstructed his basic arguments earlier) and should not be taken seriously in regards to this topic.

    This really is the last of my engagement with you, “Peace!”

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Bliss
    , @Bliss
  72. Bliss says:
    @Bliss

    What happened in the 18th century that led to the rise of Abolitionism? The anti-church Enlightenment Movement.

    I neglected to mention what it was about the Enlightenment Movement that led to the emancipation of slaves, serfs, jews etc in the West. It was the principle of Egalitarianism. Which also resulted in the end of monarchy and aristocracy.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
  73. Talha says:
    @Talha

    Oops – I meant…

    *but for the sake of anyone reading with some semblance of objectivity*

  74. bunga says:

    Where do people get the knowledge on Arab and Islam?
    It is Hollywood in one or anther incarnation

    Here is this brillant expose in Mondoweiss:

    “Valentino’s Ghost makes comeback after 4 years of suppression
    Into the matrix steps Michael Singh’s Valentino’s Ghost: Why We Hate Arabs (2015), an epic documentary that resituates the whole question of anti-Arab/-Muslim stereotyping as a matter of the “special relationship” between the United States and Israel. Subtitled originally “The Politics Behind Images” in an earlier version released in 2012, Valentino’s Ghost argues that negative and otherwise offensive images of Arabs and Muslims are not simply tropes of a culture war that may be undone with a strong dose of human understanding, but are the deliberate products of state-sanctioned propaganda made to appear entertaining and innocuous (to the perpetrators) while having become so indistinguishable from the present-day military-industrial-media war machine that the path to their undoing is clearly that of a much larger project.

    http://mondoweiss.net/2015/12/valentinos-comeback-suppression

  75. Jason Liu says:

    I’ve never understood white people’s fear of racism. If they’re going to define racism as any sort of racial/ethnic self-determination, then what’s wrong with racism?

    By that measure, I am constantly in state of increasing and improving my own racism.

    • Replies: @Epochehusserl
  76. @Jason Liu

    Some upper class whites use identity politics to keep the white working class in line as a form of status posturing. They dont really care about black people. For other whites the civil rights movement is a kind of secular religion. Its as important to not be racist to those people as any form of piety is to religious people. The third group is the average person who thinks that racist witch hunts are nonsese but that it is the only thing that prevents us from becoming nazis and are afraid of the existential conflict.

  77. Bliss says:
    @Talha

    As for the incident of Nakhlah, those men had never been commanded to fight, it was strictly an intelligence gathering party……They were forgiven after the revelation exonerated those men, but their actions were not under the original orders of the Prophet (pbuh).

    You are such a shameless liar. You are even lying about what Allah revealed in the Koran. There is no mention of anyone other than Mohammad in that verse. I challenge you to show us otherwise. Allah exonerates Mohammad for starting the slaughter/war which means he was the one being blamed. Note that the pagans were accused of persecution not slaughter. Their persecution pales in comparison to what Mohammad did to them. There were muslims still living in peace in Mecca when Mohammad began his bloody campaign of robbing caravans, killing innocents and capturing slaves. Fine role model you got there buddy. There is a direct connection from Mohammad to ISIS.

    You are correct in that Meccans did not send a war party against Madinah for a number of years and that evidence of what exactly? Only that they didn’t send a war party against them for a number of years.

    That is evidence that the pagans of Mecca did not start the war, you numbskull. They couldn’t care less what Mohammad was doing in Medina. It was only when the muslims began attacking their caravans, killing and enslaving their people and stealing their property that they were forced to retaliate.

    Secondly, it wasn’t me who made that correct point it was the site I quoted that you stupidly ridiculed as biased. If anyone is hopelessly biased here it is the circle-jerking, brainwashed, utterly immoral and irrational ISIS abetters like you.

    It is actually very indicative of your biases that you continue to treat the Meccans with kid gloves (any ‘barbaric’ custom one accuses the Prophet [pbuh] of practicing, they also did and worse

    Stupid liar. Unlike Mohammad the meccans did not attack caravans to steal goods and capture slaves. They tolerated Mohammad’s rantings against their religion for many years while Mohammad had poets who mocked his religion killed ASAP. They did not violate the sanctity of the Sacred Month, while Mohammad took advantage of it to begin his robbing and killing. They saw Mohammad’s marriage to the wife of his adopted son as scandalous, while Mohammad “revealed” a timely message from Allah justifying his behaviour. Etc, etc

  78. Bliss says:
    @Talha

    And I deign to dignify your other post (#68) with a response.

    You obviously don’t know what the word deign means. Otherwise you would have responded.

    You don’t have a response because you know that you cannot answer my questions without exposing your utter lack of morality and rationality.

    And dude, in order to deign to dignify you must possess dignity in the first place. You are nothing but a brainwashed fool, a shameless liar and a stubborn deceiver. There is even less dignity in you and your fellow apologists for Islam than there is in ISIS. At least ISIS doesn’t practice deceit and deception about their beliefs and intentions.

  79. @Rehmat

    The muslim definition of Jesus expresses an anti-Christ spirit. He was not merely a prophet. He is the eternal God, and savior of Christians, and without Him, no man can see God the Father.

    Islam is anti-Christ, and so is every single muslim.

  80. Bliss says:

    http://www.torontosun.com/2015/12/29/isis-fatwa-lays-out-rules-for-raping-sex-slaves

    ISIS fatwa lays out rules for raping sex slaves

    – Islamic State theologians have issued an extremely detailed ruling on when “owners” of women enslaved by the extremist group can have sex with them, in an apparent bid to curb what they called violations in the treatment of captured females.

    The ruling or fatwa has the force of law and appears to go beyond the Islamic State’s previous known utterances on slavery, a leading Islamic State scholar said. It sheds new light on how the group is trying to reinterpret centuries-old teachings to justify the rape of women in the swaths of Syria and Iraq it controls.

    Among the fatwa’s injunctions are bans on a father and son having sex with the same female slave; and the owner of a mother and daughter having sex with both. Joint owners of a female captive are similarly enjoined from intercourse because she is viewed as “part of a joint ownership.”

    These are very young non-muslim slave girls (a lot of them yazidis) captured by ISIS who are being abused so barbarically. These wicked people, think of Talha here, actually think that the prohibitions in this fatwa makes their sex slavery pious being in line with Sharia which is based on the Koran and the actions of Mohammad.

  81. Bliss says:

    http://aranews.net/2015/12/isis-executes-iraqi-man-for-helping-yezidi-girls-escape-mosul/

    Radical group of the Islamic State (ISIS) executed on Wednesday an Iraqi man in Mosul city for helping a group of Yezidi girls –who have been taken by ISIS as sex slaves– to escape, local sources reported.

    The source confirmed that the Yezidi girls who tried to flee were arrested by the militants in Mosul suburb and were returned to ISIS headquarters in the city.

    ISIS militants had taken over the Yezidi region of Shingal in northern Iraq in August of 2014, where the group committed atrocities against Yezidi Kurds, killing hundreds of people and taking thousands of women as sex slaves. Shingal was liberated by the Kurdish Peshmerga forces on November 13, 2015, after fierce battles against the extremist group. However, ISIS still holds nearly three thousand Yezidi women who have been distributed to the militants as sex slaves.

    These very young sex slaves are captured christians and yazidis. ISIS is now also selling these slave girls to wealthy saudis and gulf arabs, probably as a substitute source of income now that the russians have disrupted their oil trade with Turkey.

  82. Hibernian says:
    @Bliss

    The Enlightenment gave us the guillotine. Not very enlightened, really.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  83. Hibernian says:
    @NoseytheDuke

    “Could care less” is a universally understood idiomatic expression meaning “Couldn’t care less.” I think it began as sarcasm; I’m not totally sure. If you want to convey a degree of caring, try “Message: I care.” (H/t: President George H. W. Bush)

  84. Hibernian says:
    @Bliss

    All hail “the end of monarchy and aristocracy,” which led to the Terror, Fascism, Nazism, and Stalinism.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  85. @Hibernian

    The Enlightenment gave us the guillotine. Not very enlightened, really.

    But the Inquisition gave us the presumption of innocence. That’s very enlightened.

  86. @Bliss

    What happened in the 18th century that led to the rise of Abolitionism? The anti-church Enlightenment Movement. Give credit where it’s due.

    Because the evidence that the Quakers and William Wilberforce believed in God was faked?

    Abolitionists were the Holy Rollers of their day.

  87. @Hibernian

    All hail “the end of monarchy and aristocracy,” which led to the Terror, Fascism, Nazism, and Stalinism.

    You’re gonna make Bliss angry if you keep trashing his heroes like that.

  88. @Rehmat

    Right. And forcibly converting churches and Jewish temples into mosques isn’t just as bad?
    How about Indonesian genocide against East Timor?
    How about that Pakistani governor being assassinated by conservatives (I won’t say extremists anymore, because I don’t believe religious murder _is_ extreme under Islam) for opposing the country’s blasphemy laws?
    How about ISIS’ genocide of Christians and its poorly concealed sponsorship by Turkey and Saudi Barbaria?
    How about the child-rapists of Boko Haram? How do we know they’re not a cat’s paw to get the Islamist Buhari into office?
    By the way, as an alt-right paleo-libertarian, I’m opposed to Invade as well as Invite. I say, leave Muslims alone, and also strongly encourage them to stay in their native lands where they won’t risk hearing someone criticize their misogynistic cult.

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