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Manchester Massacre Was Murder-By-Muslim Immigrant
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“ISIS” did not attack in Manchester; a second-generation Muslim, son of immigrants, did.

The Islamic State may have inspired 22-year-old Salman Abedi, but ISIS in the Middle East did not murder 22 youngsters and injure dozens at a performance of pop tart Ariana Grande.

ISIS, no doubt, is pleased Salman Abedi has killed in Manchester. The outfit is eager to continue providing inspiration, even training, to his kind. But the ephemeral ISIS did not send Abedi and his ilk to kill Britons.

The Abedis, who fly the Libyan flag outside the family home, were invited into England. Policy makers and power brokers in the West have invited Muslim immigrants to live among us in the idiotic belief that, underneath the nosebags (the burqa, the abaya and full-body swaddle), they were just like us.

Almost all these Muslim killers are legitimate immigrants. Before the Manchester murderer came Knifeman Khalid Masood, on Westminster Bridge (March, 2017). There were the immigrants who carved up Drummer Lee Rigby, in Woolwich, and the Muslim who gutted an American woman in central London, both in 2013. It’s hard to keep up.

This is how citizenship in the West has been rubbished. Not by ISIS, but by your representatives: State officials who regard all of us impersonally and imperiously. The same overlords squint at the great unwashed of England or Middle America from behind their parapets in White Hall and Washington. The same sorts despise us all for wanting neighborhoods that are safe, recognizably Anglo-American, maybe even a tad monocultural.

While the Muslims who strike at our families live among us, they’re not of us.

Look, language mediates behavior. To properly respond to the vipers that elect to kill Americans, Europeans and Englishmen, we need to closely describe them.

To be vested in linguistic accuracy is to be vested in the truth. The closer language cleaves to reality, the greater the likelihood that correct, and corrective, action will follow.

Certainly the term of choice must reflect not ideology, right or left, but reality. For if we don’t describe exactly who’s killing us; we’ll be unable to eject them from our midst.

The more abstract the expert Idiocracy gets in defining what is murder-by-Muslim immigrant, the more removed will be their solutions—removed from solutions that are at once achievable and the legitimate purview of limited government.

You and I will be forced to pay for elaborate schemes that relate not at all to the problem at hand. Think about George Bush’s dumb dictum of fighting them over there so they don’t come here. “W” failed to consider that thanks to longstanding liberal immigration policies, the snakes were hibernating among us. Besides, bombing Syria or Iraq doesn’t stop a Manchester. To the contrary; it triggers it.

So don’t be fooled.

ISIS and an abstract ideology called “radical Islamic terrorism”—a redundancy, if ever there was one, since Islam unreformed is radical—are not attacking us. Men and women upon whom we’ve conferred the right to live among us are.

ORDER IT NOW

Berlin endured a Christmas-market massacre, in 2016. There was slaughter in Nice, Paris, even in an ancient village in Normandy, where an elderly priest was decapitated on the altar by two young jackals. Orlando, San Bernardino, Boston, and Chattanooga Tennessee (where four Marines were executed, in 2015): The carnage, ongoing, is too great to catalog. It emanates not from ISIS in the Levant or in the abstract, but from flesh-and-blood Muslims living right here, in America, England and on the Continent.

Also sorely missed in the discussion is that in the US, Great Britain and Western Europe, state and civil society acculturate immigrants into a militant identity politics. Essentially, newcomers are taught to hate their hosts. Nations whose institutions promote cultural relativism and hate of the dominant culture have no business importing the sort of immigrant who’ll be quick to act on an ideology of hate—be it the self-hate of the host, or the hate in Jihad.

Of course, these dormant murderers—Muslim Americans, Canadians, Europeans or Englishmen—did not act alone.

Behind almost every murder-by-Muslim-immigrant are State central planners: Policy-makers, immigration authorities, immigration attorneys, local networks of Islamic organizations, activists, media agitating for more Muslim immigration, an FBI erecting protective barriers around bad actors—civil liberties, they call it—and a command-and-control judiciary that has decided the American Bill of Rights belongs to the world, and was written to enrich immigration lawyers and their clientele the world-over.

If the truth is that the threat we face is not in the Middle East, but here at home, and that it’s more often than not an invited and legal threat—the solution presents itself.

**

Ilana Mercer is the author of The Trump Revolution: The Donald’s Creative Destruction Deconstructed (June, 2016) & Into the Cannibal’s Pot: Lessons for America From Post-Apartheid South Africa (2011). Follow her on Twitter, Facebook & Gab. Check out Ilana’s YouTube channel

 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: Immigration, Muslims, Terrorism 
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  1. Good piece. Europe is done, it was clear since long ago. Most of West’s so called “intelligence” and Law Enforcement are presently utterly incompetent and the number of No-go Sharia Zones in Europe will continue to grow with horrendous operational, strategic and political consequences for Europe. Well, European man in general is dead as species.

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  2. TheJester says:

    Ilana, you hit the nail on the head. The problem of Muslim immigrants behaving badly will not go away even if the Western powers had never been involved in the Middle East. Why?

    It’s because the Muslim immigrants in Europe have hermetically sealed their communities within Islamic culture and traditions, which, since the 7th Century, has defined the nature of government (authoritarian), the economic system, family organization, familial relations among men and women (no comment), dietary standards, and family and criminal law as the comprehensive and literal Will of Allah as expressed in The Book. Western people and their civilization are Kafir: Sinners and disbelievers who threaten the emergence of the global Islamic Ummah or community of Islamic countries … or, to paraphrase St. Augustine, The (Islamic) City of God on Earth.

    Muslims cannot integrate into Western society nor adopt the values of Western Civilization because their religion and religious-driven culture forbid it. When their populations in Europe and elsewhere reach critical mass, they will try to incorporate Western nations into the Ummah. It is their religious duty to do so.

    The experiences of Turkey and of the Turkish community in Germany are case studies regarding the likelihood of Muslims successfully integrating into Western societies and culture. If the Turks can’t do it, no Muslims can.

    Case 1. In the 1960s, Germany invited in Turks as Gastarbeiter or guest workers. There are now an estimated 4 million Turks living in Germany. They have yet to integrate into German society. Many maintain their Turkish citizenship and vote in Turkish elections.

    As Wikipedia notes,

    The Turkish people form the largest ethnic minority in Germany. Moreover, they form the second largest Turkish population in the world, after Turkey… The Turkish people who immigrated to Germany brought their culture with them, including the Turkish language and Islam. These cultural values were passed down to their children and descendants who maintain these traditions….

    These changes in Germany, as well as the recently introduced German nationality laws in 1990 and 1999, shows that Turkish immigrants and second, third, and fourth generation Turks are no longer merely seen as “foreigners” (“Ausländer”) in Germany but rather permanent residents who are increasingly making their (Islamic) voices heard, whether it be in local and national politics, civic actions, religious organisations, or in cinema, literature, music, and sports.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turks_in_Germany

    Case 2. Let’s go back to the home country. After losing in WWI, the Ottoman Turks conducted a 94-year experiment to try to modernize and “Westernize” as a secular state on the model of the European democracies. It failed. Turkey has rejoined the Islamic Ummah under the newly emergent Justice and Development Party that now controls the country. Women are again wearing Hijabs and it is reasonable to assume that a reborn Ottoman Caliphate under a Sultan may not be far behind.

    Conclusion: Islam is Islam and nothing can ever change it. The progressive Islamization of Germany, France, Belgium, and Great Britain through violence and/or the ballot will not end until they are reorganized as Islamic states and part of the Ummah. This will be the lot of any Western country that wakes up to a large Muslim community within its borders.

    As Ilana says, the solution is obvious.

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  3. Talha says:

    Interesting article. I definitely agree with the don’t invade, don’t invite strategy.

    Now, there are details to be considered. For instance, Ms. Mercer doesn’t have to have to deal with these abstract notions of differing ideologies – way too messy. So…

    While the Muslims who strike at our families live among us, they’re not of us.

    OK – so I suppose that means all Muslims without differentiation? Let’s take that as a starting point.

    OK – “Miss Libertarian” – square the circle for us – don’t tease us with “the solution presents itself”. What are you proposing? The Alhambra Decree? The Gaza option? Say it clearly please.

    Keep in mind that the extremists are disproportionately represented by converts in their ranks – these are not immigrants. So…what do we do with these people.

    Finally…

    since Islam unreformed is radical

    Nonsense – this is the reformation – how are you liking it so far? People think reformations go only one way; gay rights, feminism, dismantling of patriarchy, etc. Sorry, when you break with 1400 years of tradition – there’s no telling what comes out of the flood gates like nail bombs in the middle of a crowd of young women or trucks running over old people.

    Quick history question; the bloodiest episodes in European history; a) preceded or b) followed The Reformation?

    Peace.

    Note: Another question, what are we supposed to do with the fact that the parents called the authorities and had told them their son was ‘dangerous’ and other acquaintances had called them to tell them he supported suicide bombings?

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4536624/Salman-Abedi-known-security-services-point.html

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    • Replies: @anon
    The family and him shouldn't have been in Britain period. No Muslims in Britain no Muslims committing atrocities in Britain. The rest of your post is nonsense.
    , @Anonymous Nephew
    "what are we supposed to do with the fact that the parents called the authorities and had told them their son was ‘dangerous’ and other acquaintances had called them to tell them he supported suicide bombings"

    So far that isn't a fact, it's an unproven (though parroted by the media) allegation. The police and security services have NOT confirmed it, although it's known he was on a security list of 20,000 (!) "possibles" but not on the list of 3,000 "most probables".

    I see that the brother of one of the victims, born to a Turkish mother but by his ears well-integrated into UK urban hipsterdom, doesn't want people to link immigration and terror.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/may/31/manchester-attack-victim-martyn-hett-brother-dan-stop-using-politicise-immigration

    Btw Ilana, both the latest bomber and the Westminster knifeman were born in the UK to immigrant or asylum-granted parents (the knifeman was the son of a 17 year old native mother and immigrant father).
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  4. I propose a trade. We let the Christians and Jews living in Islamic countries immigrate to the West and in return we escort the Muslims living in the West back home to the Islamic countries. That way the Christians and Jews are safe from the Muslims and the Muslims get to live in Islamic societies under Sharia. It seems like a win – win.

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    • Replies: @Pachyderm Pachyderma
    It's an excellent proposal, Hannah the Cat, but do pork abstaining, Semitic Jews really want to dwell among uncircumcised, pig loving White Christians for physical safety and put their eternal souls in peril?
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  5. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Talha
    Interesting article. I definitely agree with the don't invade, don't invite strategy.

    Now, there are details to be considered. For instance, Ms. Mercer doesn't have to have to deal with these abstract notions of differing ideologies - way too messy. So...

    While the Muslims who strike at our families live among us, they’re not of us.
     
    OK - so I suppose that means all Muslims without differentiation? Let's take that as a starting point.

    OK - "Miss Libertarian" - square the circle for us - don't tease us with "the solution presents itself". What are you proposing? The Alhambra Decree? The Gaza option? Say it clearly please.

    Keep in mind that the extremists are disproportionately represented by converts in their ranks - these are not immigrants. So...what do we do with these people.

    Finally...

    since Islam unreformed is radical
     
    Nonsense - this is the reformation - how are you liking it so far? People think reformations go only one way; gay rights, feminism, dismantling of patriarchy, etc. Sorry, when you break with 1400 years of tradition - there's no telling what comes out of the flood gates like nail bombs in the middle of a crowd of young women or trucks running over old people.

    Quick history question; the bloodiest episodes in European history; a) preceded or b) followed The Reformation?

    Peace.

    Note: Another question, what are we supposed to do with the fact that the parents called the authorities and had told them their son was 'dangerous' and other acquaintances had called them to tell them he supported suicide bombings?
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4536624/Salman-Abedi-known-security-services-point.html

    The family and him shouldn’t have been in Britain period. No Muslims in Britain no Muslims committing atrocities in Britain. The rest of your post is nonsense.

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    • Replies: @Talha

    The family and him shouldn’t have been in Britain period.
     
    No problems here.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buyer%27s_remorse

    No Muslims in Britain no Muslims committing atrocities in Britain.
     
    True - the logic is unassailable. It's as true as; no Irish, no Irish terrorism. 100% bulletproof.

    The rest of your post is nonsense.
     
    Opinion; to be filed where the rest of anonymous opinions go.

    Peace.
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  6. anon says: • Disclaimer

    Allowing Muslims – any Muslims – to settle in western countries is the greatest mistake in history. It is a Trojan horse for terror, violence and jihad. Even without any of this Muslims are far from desirable as immigrants. There must be a mass repatriation of Muslims from the west to their countries of origin – by force if necessary. Islam is incompatible with any non-Islamic state, which explains why Muslims have such difficulties living in peace with any other non-Muslim peoples.

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  7. KenH says:

    The problem is that Britain has granted safe haven to to some knuckle dragging, Wahhabi type Muslims over the last 25 years and it’s starting to bear bitter fruit. In many cases even Muslim nations refused to take these people. Enter the sentimental, guilt ridden Brits and Western Europeans.

    The belief that showering them with welfare and an easy life would somehow deradicalize them and make them quasi Brits in mind and spirit has been a demonstrable failure, but British pols refuse to take stock of reality and wear their PC insanity like a badge of honor.

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  8. Talha says:
    @anon
    The family and him shouldn't have been in Britain period. No Muslims in Britain no Muslims committing atrocities in Britain. The rest of your post is nonsense.

    The family and him shouldn’t have been in Britain period.

    No problems here.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buyer%27s_remorse

    No Muslims in Britain no Muslims committing atrocities in Britain.

    True – the logic is unassailable. It’s as true as; no Irish, no Irish terrorism. 100% bulletproof.

    The rest of your post is nonsense.

    Opinion; to be filed where the rest of anonymous opinions go.

    Peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @KenH

    True – the logic is unassailable. It’s as true as; no Irish, no Irish terrorism. 100% bulletproof.
     
    Except the Irish belong in Ireland and Celtic peoples have lived there almost forever. It's their land. And I don't recall the IRA deliberately targeting non-combatant teenage girls, forcibly trying to convert Protestants with terror, killing Protestants during lent or committing terrorist attacks everywhere an Irish diaspora existed like Canada and America.
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  9. Meanwhile, Copts, in this particular case many children, are being steadily massacred in Egypt.

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/egypts-targeted-christian-copts-004447183.html

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    • Replies: @Avery
    This is the future of Western Europe, if trends are not reversed.

    Christian Copts are the indigenous people of Egypt.
    Then Muslim Arabs nomad hordes starting invading and began the SOP: 1) exterminate large numbers of Christians to prepare them for the next step; 2) give the 'infidels' a choice - covert or die; 3) kill those who do not convert; 4) repeat process.

    Copts are now a persecuted minority in their own land.
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  10. Avery says:
    @Andrei Martyanov
    Meanwhile, Copts, in this particular case many children, are being steadily massacred in Egypt.

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/egypts-targeted-christian-copts-004447183.html

    This is the future of Western Europe, if trends are not reversed.

    Christian Copts are the indigenous people of Egypt.
    Then Muslim Arabs nomad hordes starting invading and began the SOP: 1) exterminate large numbers of Christians to prepare them for the next step; 2) give the ‘infidels’ a choice – covert or die; 3) kill those who do not convert; 4) repeat process.

    Copts are now a persecuted minority in their own land.

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    • Replies: @Talha
    Yo Avery,

    That doesn't seem to jive with the historical record. The Copts actually liked that the Arabs kicked out Romans. You can read what they have to say about it:
    "The Copts have been persecuted by almost every ruler of Egypt. Their Clergymen have been tortured and exiled even by their Christian brothers after the schism of Chalcedon in 451 A.D. and until the Arab's conquest of Egypt in 641 A.D....For the four centuries that followed the Arab's conquest of Egypt, the Coptic Church generally flourished and Egypt remained basically Christian...Copts, despite additional sumptuary laws that were imposed on them in 750-868 A.D. and 905-935 A.D. under the Abbasid Dynasties, prospered and their Church enjoyed one of its most peaceful era. Surviving literature from monastic centers, dating back from the 8th to the 11th century, shows no drastic break in the activities of Coptic craftsmen, such as weavers, leather-binders, painters, and wood-workers."
    http://www.coptic.net/EncyclopediaCoptica/

    It was the later rulers like the Bahri Mamluks that didn't carry out their end of the bargain to protect ahl-dhimmah in Egypt. So it's not as black and white as you paint it - it depends heavily on the people who are in charge (but then again, what policies don't).

    Peace.

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  11. anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Salman’s father Ramadan was reported in the press (DM) as having worked as a “former airport security worker in the UK”. Rather unsettling to hear something like this. The idea that these are democracies is now being exposed as deceptions. They’re only democratic insofar as the public wants what their rulers also want otherwise forget about it.

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  12. Talha says:
    @Avery
    This is the future of Western Europe, if trends are not reversed.

    Christian Copts are the indigenous people of Egypt.
    Then Muslim Arabs nomad hordes starting invading and began the SOP: 1) exterminate large numbers of Christians to prepare them for the next step; 2) give the 'infidels' a choice - covert or die; 3) kill those who do not convert; 4) repeat process.

    Copts are now a persecuted minority in their own land.

    Yo Avery,

    That doesn’t seem to jive with the historical record. The Copts actually liked that the Arabs kicked out Romans. You can read what they have to say about it:
    “The Copts have been persecuted by almost every ruler of Egypt. Their Clergymen have been tortured and exiled even by their Christian brothers after the schism of Chalcedon in 451 A.D. and until the Arab’s conquest of Egypt in 641 A.D….For the four centuries that followed the Arab’s conquest of Egypt, the Coptic Church generally flourished and Egypt remained basically Christian…Copts, despite additional sumptuary laws that were imposed on them in 750-868 A.D. and 905-935 A.D. under the Abbasid Dynasties, prospered and their Church enjoyed one of its most peaceful era. Surviving literature from monastic centers, dating back from the 8th to the 11th century, shows no drastic break in the activities of Coptic craftsmen, such as weavers, leather-binders, painters, and wood-workers.”

    http://www.coptic.net/EncyclopediaCoptica/

    It was the later rulers like the Bahri Mamluks that didn’t carry out their end of the bargain to protect ahl-dhimmah in Egypt. So it’s not as black and white as you paint it – it depends heavily on the people who are in charge (but then again, what policies don’t).

    Peace.

    Read More
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  13. KenH says:
    @Talha

    The family and him shouldn’t have been in Britain period.
     
    No problems here.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buyer%27s_remorse

    No Muslims in Britain no Muslims committing atrocities in Britain.
     
    True - the logic is unassailable. It's as true as; no Irish, no Irish terrorism. 100% bulletproof.

    The rest of your post is nonsense.
     
    Opinion; to be filed where the rest of anonymous opinions go.

    Peace.

    True – the logic is unassailable. It’s as true as; no Irish, no Irish terrorism. 100% bulletproof.

    Except the Irish belong in Ireland and Celtic peoples have lived there almost forever. It’s their land. And I don’t recall the IRA deliberately targeting non-combatant teenage girls, forcibly trying to convert Protestants with terror, killing Protestants during lent or committing terrorist attacks everywhere an Irish diaspora existed like Canada and America.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey KenH,

    Nothing about what you say negates anything about what I said. I agreed - the person's assertion is 100% air tight logically; no Muslims, no Muslim terrorists. How can anyone argue with that premise? If one feels Muslims have brought zero benefit and only negative consequences to their host countries, then one needs to get to work on redefining the legal framework in order to strip them of citizenship in order to have them deported.

    And you are right - that's what our extremists like to do. They are called extremists for a reason right?

    Here is a list of Sufi mausoleums they have attacked (and death count) in just Pakistan over the years without regard to any Muslim lives (this isn't even Iraq, Syria, Nigeria, etc.):
    https://www.dawn.com/news/1315263

    They killed an elderly UK imam by beating his head in with a hammer:
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3792919/British-ISIS-fanatic-guilty-murdering-Imam-died-hammer-attack-way-home-mosque.html

    Do you really expect these people - nihilist to the core - to somehow treat non-Muslims with kid gloves? I have a few simple questions; why are these kinds of people who are obviously unstable and dangerous being allowed in? Why are people who are Daesh sympathizers being allowed to preach in the UK? Why hasn't there been a complete internet blockage of any suspect IPs that are hosting any of Daesh's content and why hasn't there been a complete blackout of their stuff in the search engines?

    Peace.

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  14. Talha says:
    @KenH

    True – the logic is unassailable. It’s as true as; no Irish, no Irish terrorism. 100% bulletproof.
     
    Except the Irish belong in Ireland and Celtic peoples have lived there almost forever. It's their land. And I don't recall the IRA deliberately targeting non-combatant teenage girls, forcibly trying to convert Protestants with terror, killing Protestants during lent or committing terrorist attacks everywhere an Irish diaspora existed like Canada and America.

    Hey KenH,

    Nothing about what you say negates anything about what I said. I agreed – the person’s assertion is 100% air tight logically; no Muslims, no Muslim terrorists. How can anyone argue with that premise? If one feels Muslims have brought zero benefit and only negative consequences to their host countries, then one needs to get to work on redefining the legal framework in order to strip them of citizenship in order to have them deported.

    And you are right – that’s what our extremists like to do. They are called extremists for a reason right?

    Here is a list of Sufi mausoleums they have attacked (and death count) in just Pakistan over the years without regard to any Muslim lives (this isn’t even Iraq, Syria, Nigeria, etc.):

    https://www.dawn.com/news/1315263

    They killed an elderly UK imam by beating his head in with a hammer:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3792919/British-ISIS-fanatic-guilty-murdering-Imam-died-hammer-attack-way-home-mosque.html

    Do you really expect these people – nihilist to the core – to somehow treat non-Muslims with kid gloves? I have a few simple questions; why are these kinds of people who are obviously unstable and dangerous being allowed in? Why are people who are Daesh sympathizers being allowed to preach in the UK? Why hasn’t there been a complete internet blockage of any suspect IPs that are hosting any of Daesh’s content and why hasn’t there been a complete blackout of their stuff in the search engines?

    Peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @KenH
    I am aware of the Wahhabi campaign against the Sufi Muslims in Pakistan. So yes, even some Muslims can't escape their wrath. But again, Pakistan is Muslim territory so it's their problem to sort out. They can't bring their intolerance and will to commit religious violence into the West any more than they would wish to import thousands of IRA members or neo-Nazis into their societies.

    The problem is that incoming Muslims can be nice, peaceful and inoffensive people yet their children or grandchildren can easily get seduced by Salafism/Wahabism. There's been numerous cases of this in the U.K. and throughout Europe and it doesn't seem to be getting any better and is only being compounded by liberal immigration policies and the refugee influx. Derbyshire was correct about absimilition of the second and third generation Muslims.

    As to your why questions, I think it mostly has to do with political correctness and anti-racist hysteria fostered by decades of mental conditioning. This has led to impairment of normal mental function and cognitive dissonance among large numbers of white Westerners, especially our governing elites. And they have the same problem with left wing, SJW bias in their media. There's been a denaturing process of white Europeans since 1945 which has transformed them into the passive Eloi of today.

    But the West is damned if they do and damned if they don't. If they were to become proactive and begin arresting and quarantining Muslims based on suspicion and tips we'd be treated to howls of Islamophobia and anti-Muslim bigotry from Muslim organizations like CAIR and their Jewish and liberal allies in the media, government and entertainment industry. It would be characterized as the 21st century Salem witch trials and quickly turn into a PR nightmare for America and European nations trying to protect their citizens.

    The Intercept has a short article about all the Muslims who've been arrested in the U.S. in what they claim are unfounded and spurious charges. The Intercept is claiming that these Muslims "dindu nuffins". Yet, The Intercept and other left leaning media outlets would be the first to pillory law enforcement agencies when they fail to thwart terrorist attacks if the perp(s) were previously on law enforcement's radar.

    , @Binyamin
    Talha, I am not Muslim but I respect your humanity and compassion. I wonder if you are an Ahmadi? For those who do not know, Ahmadis are a non violent, Muslim sect. Their outlook is modern and they are secular and preach the mantra 'love for all hatred for none'.
    Sadly, since the Manchester atrocity, two innocent people have been murdered by Alt Right terrorists in America. The Alt Right savages were screaming anti Muslim slogans. Do we hear of media hysteria about the increasing threat posed by Alt Right terrorists in the West, something which Western security services are fully aware of? You bet! Do we hear calls for the banning of foreign born Alt Right extremists and imposing on them travel restrictions ? Heck no! You think Alt Right is less evil than ISIS? Think again! Richard Spencer, the Nazi hoodlum and poster boy and guru of Alt Right has openly called for ethnic cleansing of non whites to create a white ethnic state in America. Ethnic cleansing equals genocide. No?
    This brings us to Mercer, the rather odd looking Alt Right extremist. She is foreign born and a foreign national. I would say deport her. The fight against extremism begins at home.
    Shalom!
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  15. KenH says:
    @Talha
    Hey KenH,

    Nothing about what you say negates anything about what I said. I agreed - the person's assertion is 100% air tight logically; no Muslims, no Muslim terrorists. How can anyone argue with that premise? If one feels Muslims have brought zero benefit and only negative consequences to their host countries, then one needs to get to work on redefining the legal framework in order to strip them of citizenship in order to have them deported.

    And you are right - that's what our extremists like to do. They are called extremists for a reason right?

    Here is a list of Sufi mausoleums they have attacked (and death count) in just Pakistan over the years without regard to any Muslim lives (this isn't even Iraq, Syria, Nigeria, etc.):
    https://www.dawn.com/news/1315263

    They killed an elderly UK imam by beating his head in with a hammer:
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3792919/British-ISIS-fanatic-guilty-murdering-Imam-died-hammer-attack-way-home-mosque.html

    Do you really expect these people - nihilist to the core - to somehow treat non-Muslims with kid gloves? I have a few simple questions; why are these kinds of people who are obviously unstable and dangerous being allowed in? Why are people who are Daesh sympathizers being allowed to preach in the UK? Why hasn't there been a complete internet blockage of any suspect IPs that are hosting any of Daesh's content and why hasn't there been a complete blackout of their stuff in the search engines?

    Peace.

    I am aware of the Wahhabi campaign against the Sufi Muslims in Pakistan. So yes, even some Muslims can’t escape their wrath. But again, Pakistan is Muslim territory so it’s their problem to sort out. They can’t bring their intolerance and will to commit religious violence into the West any more than they would wish to import thousands of IRA members or neo-Nazis into their societies.

    The problem is that incoming Muslims can be nice, peaceful and inoffensive people yet their children or grandchildren can easily get seduced by Salafism/Wahabism. There’s been numerous cases of this in the U.K. and throughout Europe and it doesn’t seem to be getting any better and is only being compounded by liberal immigration policies and the refugee influx. Derbyshire was correct about absimilition of the second and third generation Muslims.

    As to your why questions, I think it mostly has to do with political correctness and anti-racist hysteria fostered by decades of mental conditioning. This has led to impairment of normal mental function and cognitive dissonance among large numbers of white Westerners, especially our governing elites. And they have the same problem with left wing, SJW bias in their media. There’s been a denaturing process of white Europeans since 1945 which has transformed them into the passive Eloi of today.

    But the West is damned if they do and damned if they don’t. If they were to become proactive and begin arresting and quarantining Muslims based on suspicion and tips we’d be treated to howls of Islamophobia and anti-Muslim bigotry from Muslim organizations like CAIR and their Jewish and liberal allies in the media, government and entertainment industry. It would be characterized as the 21st century Salem witch trials and quickly turn into a PR nightmare for America and European nations trying to protect their citizens.

    The Intercept has a short article about all the Muslims who’ve been arrested in the U.S. in what they claim are unfounded and spurious charges. The Intercept is claiming that these Muslims “dindu nuffins”. Yet, The Intercept and other left leaning media outlets would be the first to pillory law enforcement agencies when they fail to thwart terrorist attacks if the perp(s) were previously on law enforcement’s radar.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey KenH,

    yet their children or grandchildren can easily get seduced by Salafism/Wahabism
     
    This right here is a very good criticism. I mingle in the Muslim community quite a bit so I know most Muslims are the traditional types with a good sprinkling of the modernist types. The Salafi-Wahhabi don't have the high numbers, but they certainly make a lot more noise. And I personally think too many go that route for my comfort and they don't simply go the kind of Salafi-Wahhabis that shun politics*. And I think the danger is in the secular types who suddenly "find religion" and go the Salafi-Wahhabi extremist route - that can be an explosive combination and fairly quicklyghv.

    I just had a talk with a Senegalese brother who mentioned that in Senegal, the traditional Maliki-Sufi ulema have turned the trend around and the Salafi-Wahhabi element is now on the decline after steadily gaining ground for years.

    This has led to impairment of normal mental function and cognitive dissonance among large numbers of white Westerners, especially our governing elites.
     
    Yup - post-modern man is malfunctioning - which is why people like me from traditional backgrounds don't want to drink that koolaid. And, as far as governing elites, I thought there was a chance with Trump, but now he's out in Saudi doing the sword dance. I actually think Obama had a healthier skepticism regarding Saudi intentions and policies.

    But the West is damned if they do and damned if they don’t.
     
    Yeah - until policy makers (backed by public opinion) take firm stances, nothing will change. You can learn something from the Muslims in this regard; sure we get international criticism for not allowing gay pride parades in Karachi and Algiers, but who cares?

    Muslims who’ve been arrested in the U.S. in what they claim are unfounded and spurious charges
     
    There is also truth to this as well. The government has been known to actually use agent provocateurs and entrap certain Muslims :
    http://freedominourtime.blogspot.com/2011/03/inside-fbis-terrorism-factory.html

    They have also been known to set up White militia types in a similar way. So there is a balanced line to walk. Do you really want to give the government the same powers they have to deal with terrorism as they do in, say, Algeria or China?

    Peace.

    *They definitely exist - I've met a few that wanted very little to do with politics:
    "While many quietist Salafists do not engage in political activities, they do contribute to political discourse regarding international, regional, and local political matters. Their political actions are quiet, but their political voice is loud. They lie on a continuum between absolute quietism and peaceful political engagement. The continuum between quietism and political
    activism is best examined through the life of the most prominent quietist Salafist of the last
    century, Muhammad Nasir al-Din al-Albani (d.1999)."
    https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Brookings-Analysis-Paper_Jacob-Olidort-Inside_Final_Web.pdf
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  16. Binyamin says:
    @Talha
    Hey KenH,

    Nothing about what you say negates anything about what I said. I agreed - the person's assertion is 100% air tight logically; no Muslims, no Muslim terrorists. How can anyone argue with that premise? If one feels Muslims have brought zero benefit and only negative consequences to their host countries, then one needs to get to work on redefining the legal framework in order to strip them of citizenship in order to have them deported.

    And you are right - that's what our extremists like to do. They are called extremists for a reason right?

    Here is a list of Sufi mausoleums they have attacked (and death count) in just Pakistan over the years without regard to any Muslim lives (this isn't even Iraq, Syria, Nigeria, etc.):
    https://www.dawn.com/news/1315263

    They killed an elderly UK imam by beating his head in with a hammer:
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3792919/British-ISIS-fanatic-guilty-murdering-Imam-died-hammer-attack-way-home-mosque.html

    Do you really expect these people - nihilist to the core - to somehow treat non-Muslims with kid gloves? I have a few simple questions; why are these kinds of people who are obviously unstable and dangerous being allowed in? Why are people who are Daesh sympathizers being allowed to preach in the UK? Why hasn't there been a complete internet blockage of any suspect IPs that are hosting any of Daesh's content and why hasn't there been a complete blackout of their stuff in the search engines?

    Peace.

    Talha, I am not Muslim but I respect your humanity and compassion. I wonder if you are an Ahmadi? For those who do not know, Ahmadis are a non violent, Muslim sect. Their outlook is modern and they are secular and preach the mantra ‘love for all hatred for none’.
    Sadly, since the Manchester atrocity, two innocent people have been murdered by Alt Right terrorists in America. The Alt Right savages were screaming anti Muslim slogans. Do we hear of media hysteria about the increasing threat posed by Alt Right terrorists in the West, something which Western security services are fully aware of? You bet! Do we hear calls for the banning of foreign born Alt Right extremists and imposing on them travel restrictions ? Heck no! You think Alt Right is less evil than ISIS? Think again! Richard Spencer, the Nazi hoodlum and poster boy and guru of Alt Right has openly called for ethnic cleansing of non whites to create a white ethnic state in America. Ethnic cleansing equals genocide. No?
    This brings us to Mercer, the rather odd looking Alt Right extremist. She is foreign born and a foreign national. I would say deport her. The fight against extremism begins at home.
    Shalom!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey Binyamin,

    I'm actually a very traditional Muslim - Sunni Orthodox (and part of a Sufi Order). As such I espouse peace as much as possible, with the knowledge that violence also has its proper time and place - music concerts not being one of them.

    As far as the Alt-Right; I have noticed there is a wide spectrum of views within the Alt-Right - some of which are truly reprehensible and some of which are grounded in reason.

    As far as Ms. Mercer; her views also seem to cover everything from the very reasonable to the not-so-much.

    Peace and may God preserve you and yours.
    , @Anon
    Nazis are already barred from immigration to the U.S., as is (officially) anyone who belongs to


    a political, social, or other group that endorses or espouses terrorist
    activity;
     
    or who has been a member of a "totalitarian party".* The latter two categories are open to discussion and if you're American you're welcome to join the debate on who exactly should be judged to fit them.

    *https://www.uscis.gov/ilink/docView/SLB/HTML/SLB/0-0-0-1/0-0-0-29/0-0-0-2006.html
    , @KenH

    The Alt Right savages were screaming anti Muslim slogans. Do we hear of media hysteria about the increasing threat posed by Alt Right terrorists in the West, something which Western security services are fully aware of?
     
    If they were then so what? It's called freedom of speech something that Jewish control freaks like you hate with a passion. Those "Alt Right terrorists" haven't committed one act of terror other than speaking truths that you vehemently disagree with because you hate white people.

    You're a typical Jew who hates and despises free thinking white people more than bloodthirsty, murderous Muslim terrorists. Or rather, you hate Muslims when they pose a threat to Jews especially in Israel but love them when they threaten white Europeans.


    Richard Spencer, the Nazi hoodlum and poster boy and guru of Alt Right has openly called for ethnic cleansing of non whites to create a white ethnic state in America. Ethnic cleansing equals genocide. No?
     
    Where's your source for this claim? And if by some chance he did say it THIS IS OUR COUNTRY. The third world population pouring in to this nation will ethnically cleanse whites once they reach critical mass and acquire political power and diaspora Jews are working hard to make that prospect a reality.

    Why is it ok for Israeli Jews to ethnically cleanse Palestinians but not ok for whites to do the same in their own nations? The American Indian lives far better than the Palestinians who were violently displaced by Jewish interlopers. We aren't bulldozing their homes and arresting and torturing them for sport as Israeli Jews do to Palestinians.

    , @KenH

    Sadly, since the Manchester atrocity, two innocent people have been murdered by Alt Right terrorists in America
     
    The murderer was an alt-lefty terrorist. Try doing your research before posting next time.

    http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/05/portland-stabber-media-keep-painting-white-supremacist-trump-supporter-raging-progressive-wanted-kill-trump-supporters/
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  17. Talha says:
    @Binyamin
    Talha, I am not Muslim but I respect your humanity and compassion. I wonder if you are an Ahmadi? For those who do not know, Ahmadis are a non violent, Muslim sect. Their outlook is modern and they are secular and preach the mantra 'love for all hatred for none'.
    Sadly, since the Manchester atrocity, two innocent people have been murdered by Alt Right terrorists in America. The Alt Right savages were screaming anti Muslim slogans. Do we hear of media hysteria about the increasing threat posed by Alt Right terrorists in the West, something which Western security services are fully aware of? You bet! Do we hear calls for the banning of foreign born Alt Right extremists and imposing on them travel restrictions ? Heck no! You think Alt Right is less evil than ISIS? Think again! Richard Spencer, the Nazi hoodlum and poster boy and guru of Alt Right has openly called for ethnic cleansing of non whites to create a white ethnic state in America. Ethnic cleansing equals genocide. No?
    This brings us to Mercer, the rather odd looking Alt Right extremist. She is foreign born and a foreign national. I would say deport her. The fight against extremism begins at home.
    Shalom!

    Hey Binyamin,

    I’m actually a very traditional Muslim – Sunni Orthodox (and part of a Sufi Order). As such I espouse peace as much as possible, with the knowledge that violence also has its proper time and place – music concerts not being one of them.

    As far as the Alt-Right; I have noticed there is a wide spectrum of views within the Alt-Right – some of which are truly reprehensible and some of which are grounded in reason.

    As far as Ms. Mercer; her views also seem to cover everything from the very reasonable to the not-so-much.

    Peace and may God preserve you and yours.

    Read More
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  18. Talha says:
    @KenH
    I am aware of the Wahhabi campaign against the Sufi Muslims in Pakistan. So yes, even some Muslims can't escape their wrath. But again, Pakistan is Muslim territory so it's their problem to sort out. They can't bring their intolerance and will to commit religious violence into the West any more than they would wish to import thousands of IRA members or neo-Nazis into their societies.

    The problem is that incoming Muslims can be nice, peaceful and inoffensive people yet their children or grandchildren can easily get seduced by Salafism/Wahabism. There's been numerous cases of this in the U.K. and throughout Europe and it doesn't seem to be getting any better and is only being compounded by liberal immigration policies and the refugee influx. Derbyshire was correct about absimilition of the second and third generation Muslims.

    As to your why questions, I think it mostly has to do with political correctness and anti-racist hysteria fostered by decades of mental conditioning. This has led to impairment of normal mental function and cognitive dissonance among large numbers of white Westerners, especially our governing elites. And they have the same problem with left wing, SJW bias in their media. There's been a denaturing process of white Europeans since 1945 which has transformed them into the passive Eloi of today.

    But the West is damned if they do and damned if they don't. If they were to become proactive and begin arresting and quarantining Muslims based on suspicion and tips we'd be treated to howls of Islamophobia and anti-Muslim bigotry from Muslim organizations like CAIR and their Jewish and liberal allies in the media, government and entertainment industry. It would be characterized as the 21st century Salem witch trials and quickly turn into a PR nightmare for America and European nations trying to protect their citizens.

    The Intercept has a short article about all the Muslims who've been arrested in the U.S. in what they claim are unfounded and spurious charges. The Intercept is claiming that these Muslims "dindu nuffins". Yet, The Intercept and other left leaning media outlets would be the first to pillory law enforcement agencies when they fail to thwart terrorist attacks if the perp(s) were previously on law enforcement's radar.

    Hey KenH,

    yet their children or grandchildren can easily get seduced by Salafism/Wahabism

    This right here is a very good criticism. I mingle in the Muslim community quite a bit so I know most Muslims are the traditional types with a good sprinkling of the modernist types. The Salafi-Wahhabi don’t have the high numbers, but they certainly make a lot more noise. And I personally think too many go that route for my comfort and they don’t simply go the kind of Salafi-Wahhabis that shun politics*. And I think the danger is in the secular types who suddenly “find religion” and go the Salafi-Wahhabi extremist route – that can be an explosive combination and fairly quicklyghv.

    I just had a talk with a Senegalese brother who mentioned that in Senegal, the traditional Maliki-Sufi ulema have turned the trend around and the Salafi-Wahhabi element is now on the decline after steadily gaining ground for years.

    This has led to impairment of normal mental function and cognitive dissonance among large numbers of white Westerners, especially our governing elites.

    Yup – post-modern man is malfunctioning – which is why people like me from traditional backgrounds don’t want to drink that koolaid. And, as far as governing elites, I thought there was a chance with Trump, but now he’s out in Saudi doing the sword dance. I actually think Obama had a healthier skepticism regarding Saudi intentions and policies.

    But the West is damned if they do and damned if they don’t.

    Yeah – until policy makers (backed by public opinion) take firm stances, nothing will change. You can learn something from the Muslims in this regard; sure we get international criticism for not allowing gay pride parades in Karachi and Algiers, but who cares?

    Muslims who’ve been arrested in the U.S. in what they claim are unfounded and spurious charges

    There is also truth to this as well. The government has been known to actually use agent provocateurs and entrap certain Muslims :

    http://freedominourtime.blogspot.com/2011/03/inside-fbis-terrorism-factory.html

    They have also been known to set up White militia types in a similar way. So there is a balanced line to walk. Do you really want to give the government the same powers they have to deal with terrorism as they do in, say, Algeria or China?

    Peace.

    *They definitely exist – I’ve met a few that wanted very little to do with politics:
    “While many quietist Salafists do not engage in political activities, they do contribute to political discourse regarding international, regional, and local political matters. Their political actions are quiet, but their political voice is loud. They lie on a continuum between absolute quietism and peaceful political engagement. The continuum between quietism and political
    activism is best examined through the life of the most prominent quietist Salafist of the last
    century, Muhammad Nasir al-Din al-Albani (d.1999).”

    https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Brookings-Analysis-Paper_Jacob-Olidort-Inside_Final_Web.pdf

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon

    I mingle in the Muslim community quite a bit
     
    Well, no doubt, but mightn't your company be somewhat self-selected? Obviously I've had much less experience with the Muslim community than you, but I've run across a number of types, ranging from the "traditional" (various sorts; Sunni, Shia -- would you consider Guelenists traditional?), to liberals, to people-who-don't-give-much-of-a-d--n, who may very well go to mosque on Friday and have a drink with their Christian friends (or Alawite or Buddhist or whatever) on Saturday. My impressions are that 1) jihadi nutcases are rare, 2) that the third type is very common, and 3) that the first two types are more common in the U.S. than elsewhere, though of course nowhere rare.

    Salafism seems to have worldwide penetration and shows up in the most disconcerting places. Apparently their tactics include arson: https://www.colombotelegraph.com/index.php/the-wahhabi-invasion-of-sri-lanka/ .

    post-modern man is malfunctioning
     
    Why post-modern specifically? Doubtless postmodernism (as the intellectual descendant of Pontius Pilate) is badly screwed up, but we Catholics have been noticing this sort of stuff way back when it was still just called modernism.

    many quietist Salafists do not engage in political activities

     

    It's too late for the poor inhabitants of Lesbos, but is it possible for Quietism to remain a specific Christian heresy?

    You're quite right about the secular-to-Wahhabi route. It strikes me that one reason that jihadi nutcases in the West seem to target particularly decadent and secular places (as opposed to their brothers in the East who burn churches and behead scholars of more sane schools) is that this sort of thing is the West to them; it is the culture (a "culture of death" as either this or the last Pope put it) in which they were raised and with which they seem still to identify to some extent.
    , @Talha
    Aaaaand the takfiris bombed an ice cream shop in the middle of a night in Ramadan:
    http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/30/middleeast/baghdad-ice-cream-shop-bombing/

    And some elderly pensioners waiting in line to get their checks.

    These are vile, vile people - they are specifically targeting the young and the elderly.

    I'll never forget in my time in SoCal - me and my friends came across a young African American convert that frequented a known Salafi-Wahhabi masjid in that area. Seemed very religious outwardly - dressed also in full Arab garb (turban, thobe, etc.). He was big on the idea that all one needed to know was the Quran and the hadith (and only the two collections of Imam Bukhari [ra] and Imam Muslim [ra] at that). Conversation went this way and that and I forget what issue came up but we pointed out to him what the scholars had ruled about it. His response was; "The scholars can go to Hell!"

    I remember my friends and I laughed that off as we were parting from him anyways. It would take me years later to realize how absolutely dangerous that kind of mentality could be.
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  19. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Talha
    Hey KenH,

    yet their children or grandchildren can easily get seduced by Salafism/Wahabism
     
    This right here is a very good criticism. I mingle in the Muslim community quite a bit so I know most Muslims are the traditional types with a good sprinkling of the modernist types. The Salafi-Wahhabi don't have the high numbers, but they certainly make a lot more noise. And I personally think too many go that route for my comfort and they don't simply go the kind of Salafi-Wahhabis that shun politics*. And I think the danger is in the secular types who suddenly "find religion" and go the Salafi-Wahhabi extremist route - that can be an explosive combination and fairly quicklyghv.

    I just had a talk with a Senegalese brother who mentioned that in Senegal, the traditional Maliki-Sufi ulema have turned the trend around and the Salafi-Wahhabi element is now on the decline after steadily gaining ground for years.

    This has led to impairment of normal mental function and cognitive dissonance among large numbers of white Westerners, especially our governing elites.
     
    Yup - post-modern man is malfunctioning - which is why people like me from traditional backgrounds don't want to drink that koolaid. And, as far as governing elites, I thought there was a chance with Trump, but now he's out in Saudi doing the sword dance. I actually think Obama had a healthier skepticism regarding Saudi intentions and policies.

    But the West is damned if they do and damned if they don’t.
     
    Yeah - until policy makers (backed by public opinion) take firm stances, nothing will change. You can learn something from the Muslims in this regard; sure we get international criticism for not allowing gay pride parades in Karachi and Algiers, but who cares?

    Muslims who’ve been arrested in the U.S. in what they claim are unfounded and spurious charges
     
    There is also truth to this as well. The government has been known to actually use agent provocateurs and entrap certain Muslims :
    http://freedominourtime.blogspot.com/2011/03/inside-fbis-terrorism-factory.html

    They have also been known to set up White militia types in a similar way. So there is a balanced line to walk. Do you really want to give the government the same powers they have to deal with terrorism as they do in, say, Algeria or China?

    Peace.

    *They definitely exist - I've met a few that wanted very little to do with politics:
    "While many quietist Salafists do not engage in political activities, they do contribute to political discourse regarding international, regional, and local political matters. Their political actions are quiet, but their political voice is loud. They lie on a continuum between absolute quietism and peaceful political engagement. The continuum between quietism and political
    activism is best examined through the life of the most prominent quietist Salafist of the last
    century, Muhammad Nasir al-Din al-Albani (d.1999)."
    https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Brookings-Analysis-Paper_Jacob-Olidort-Inside_Final_Web.pdf

    I mingle in the Muslim community quite a bit

    Well, no doubt, but mightn’t your company be somewhat self-selected? Obviously I’ve had much less experience with the Muslim community than you, but I’ve run across a number of types, ranging from the “traditional” (various sorts; Sunni, Shia — would you consider Guelenists traditional?), to liberals, to people-who-don’t-give-much-of-a-d–n, who may very well go to mosque on Friday and have a drink with their Christian friends (or Alawite or Buddhist or whatever) on Saturday. My impressions are that 1) jihadi nutcases are rare, 2) that the third type is very common, and 3) that the first two types are more common in the U.S. than elsewhere, though of course nowhere rare.

    Salafism seems to have worldwide penetration and shows up in the most disconcerting places. Apparently their tactics include arson: https://www.colombotelegraph.com/index.php/the-wahhabi-invasion-of-sri-lanka/ .

    post-modern man is malfunctioning

    Why post-modern specifically? Doubtless postmodernism (as the intellectual descendant of Pontius Pilate) is badly screwed up, but we Catholics have been noticing this sort of stuff way back when it was still just called modernism.

    many quietist Salafists do not engage in political activities

    It’s too late for the poor inhabitants of Lesbos, but is it possible for Quietism to remain a specific Christian heresy?

    You’re quite right about the secular-to-Wahhabi route. It strikes me that one reason that jihadi nutcases in the West seem to target particularly decadent and secular places (as opposed to their brothers in the East who burn churches and behead scholars of more sane schools) is that this sort of thing is the West to them; it is the culture (a “culture of death” as either this or the last Pope put it) in which they were raised and with which they seem still to identify to some extent.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Hola Senor,

    mightn’t your company be somewhat self-selected?
     
    To a degree, yes. But that's in the friends I keep or people I decide to hang around. Most Muslims (including me) attend prayer at whatever masjid is closest (including Friday prayers - often near work). This means we get to see everybody in our vicinity. I've moved around 9 times in my life (mostly around various places in Southern California). I even used to attend here (which was built by the Saudis) - so my experience is pretty extensive:
    https://kingfahadmosque.org/

    Even there, most of the congregation was not pro-Wahhabi.

    would you consider Guelenists traditional?
     
    Definitely on the traditional spectrum - why would he extensively teach or talk about known Sufi-scholars like Imam Ghazali (ra) or Imam Rabbani (ra)?

    Salafism seems to have worldwide penetration
     
    Massive problem. They have huge wealth at their disposal and political cover from governments like the British and the US. Even in the West, many Muslims like myself are guarded in our words since they control the Hajj and it is known the Saudis have spies among the congregations. If one says something they don't like, they can block you from getting access to the pilgrimage.

    Why post-modern specifically?
     
    Modernism actually thought it had a direction - no matter what one may think of it. Post-modernism deconstructed that. We are now living in an environment completely removed from its foundational moorings - nihilism is a very natural outgrowth.

    is the West to them
     
    Likely - it seems they are lashing out at the symbols of what they feel was the cause of them being defiled. This is the immature nafs (ego-self) - it wants to blame everyone else. One sees this quality in children. If they would have taken up Sufism, they would have understood only they can defile themselves and that the core of the matter is at bringing the nafs into conformity with the Divine will.

    Peace.
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  20. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Binyamin
    Talha, I am not Muslim but I respect your humanity and compassion. I wonder if you are an Ahmadi? For those who do not know, Ahmadis are a non violent, Muslim sect. Their outlook is modern and they are secular and preach the mantra 'love for all hatred for none'.
    Sadly, since the Manchester atrocity, two innocent people have been murdered by Alt Right terrorists in America. The Alt Right savages were screaming anti Muslim slogans. Do we hear of media hysteria about the increasing threat posed by Alt Right terrorists in the West, something which Western security services are fully aware of? You bet! Do we hear calls for the banning of foreign born Alt Right extremists and imposing on them travel restrictions ? Heck no! You think Alt Right is less evil than ISIS? Think again! Richard Spencer, the Nazi hoodlum and poster boy and guru of Alt Right has openly called for ethnic cleansing of non whites to create a white ethnic state in America. Ethnic cleansing equals genocide. No?
    This brings us to Mercer, the rather odd looking Alt Right extremist. She is foreign born and a foreign national. I would say deport her. The fight against extremism begins at home.
    Shalom!

    Nazis are already barred from immigration to the U.S., as is (officially) anyone who belongs to

    a political, social, or other group that endorses or espouses terrorist
    activity;

    or who has been a member of a “totalitarian party”.* The latter two categories are open to discussion and if you’re American you’re welcome to join the debate on who exactly should be judged to fit them.

    *https://www.uscis.gov/ilink/docView/SLB/HTML/SLB/0-0-0-1/0-0-0-29/0-0-0-2006.html

    Read More
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  21. Talha says:
    @Anon

    I mingle in the Muslim community quite a bit
     
    Well, no doubt, but mightn't your company be somewhat self-selected? Obviously I've had much less experience with the Muslim community than you, but I've run across a number of types, ranging from the "traditional" (various sorts; Sunni, Shia -- would you consider Guelenists traditional?), to liberals, to people-who-don't-give-much-of-a-d--n, who may very well go to mosque on Friday and have a drink with their Christian friends (or Alawite or Buddhist or whatever) on Saturday. My impressions are that 1) jihadi nutcases are rare, 2) that the third type is very common, and 3) that the first two types are more common in the U.S. than elsewhere, though of course nowhere rare.

    Salafism seems to have worldwide penetration and shows up in the most disconcerting places. Apparently their tactics include arson: https://www.colombotelegraph.com/index.php/the-wahhabi-invasion-of-sri-lanka/ .

    post-modern man is malfunctioning
     
    Why post-modern specifically? Doubtless postmodernism (as the intellectual descendant of Pontius Pilate) is badly screwed up, but we Catholics have been noticing this sort of stuff way back when it was still just called modernism.

    many quietist Salafists do not engage in political activities

     

    It's too late for the poor inhabitants of Lesbos, but is it possible for Quietism to remain a specific Christian heresy?

    You're quite right about the secular-to-Wahhabi route. It strikes me that one reason that jihadi nutcases in the West seem to target particularly decadent and secular places (as opposed to their brothers in the East who burn churches and behead scholars of more sane schools) is that this sort of thing is the West to them; it is the culture (a "culture of death" as either this or the last Pope put it) in which they were raised and with which they seem still to identify to some extent.

    Hola Senor,

    mightn’t your company be somewhat self-selected?

    To a degree, yes. But that’s in the friends I keep or people I decide to hang around. Most Muslims (including me) attend prayer at whatever masjid is closest (including Friday prayers – often near work). This means we get to see everybody in our vicinity. I’ve moved around 9 times in my life (mostly around various places in Southern California). I even used to attend here (which was built by the Saudis) – so my experience is pretty extensive:

    https://kingfahadmosque.org/

    Even there, most of the congregation was not pro-Wahhabi.

    would you consider Guelenists traditional?

    Definitely on the traditional spectrum – why would he extensively teach or talk about known Sufi-scholars like Imam Ghazali (ra) or Imam Rabbani (ra)?

    Salafism seems to have worldwide penetration

    Massive problem. They have huge wealth at their disposal and political cover from governments like the British and the US. Even in the West, many Muslims like myself are guarded in our words since they control the Hajj and it is known the Saudis have spies among the congregations. If one says something they don’t like, they can block you from getting access to the pilgrimage.

    Why post-modern specifically?

    Modernism actually thought it had a direction – no matter what one may think of it. Post-modernism deconstructed that. We are now living in an environment completely removed from its foundational moorings – nihilism is a very natural outgrowth.

    is the West to them

    Likely – it seems they are lashing out at the symbols of what they feel was the cause of them being defiled. This is the immature nafs (ego-self) – it wants to blame everyone else. One sees this quality in children. If they would have taken up Sufism, they would have understood only they can defile themselves and that the core of the matter is at bringing the nafs into conformity with the Divine will.

    Peace.

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  22. Talha says:
    @Talha
    Hey KenH,

    yet their children or grandchildren can easily get seduced by Salafism/Wahabism
     
    This right here is a very good criticism. I mingle in the Muslim community quite a bit so I know most Muslims are the traditional types with a good sprinkling of the modernist types. The Salafi-Wahhabi don't have the high numbers, but they certainly make a lot more noise. And I personally think too many go that route for my comfort and they don't simply go the kind of Salafi-Wahhabis that shun politics*. And I think the danger is in the secular types who suddenly "find religion" and go the Salafi-Wahhabi extremist route - that can be an explosive combination and fairly quicklyghv.

    I just had a talk with a Senegalese brother who mentioned that in Senegal, the traditional Maliki-Sufi ulema have turned the trend around and the Salafi-Wahhabi element is now on the decline after steadily gaining ground for years.

    This has led to impairment of normal mental function and cognitive dissonance among large numbers of white Westerners, especially our governing elites.
     
    Yup - post-modern man is malfunctioning - which is why people like me from traditional backgrounds don't want to drink that koolaid. And, as far as governing elites, I thought there was a chance with Trump, but now he's out in Saudi doing the sword dance. I actually think Obama had a healthier skepticism regarding Saudi intentions and policies.

    But the West is damned if they do and damned if they don’t.
     
    Yeah - until policy makers (backed by public opinion) take firm stances, nothing will change. You can learn something from the Muslims in this regard; sure we get international criticism for not allowing gay pride parades in Karachi and Algiers, but who cares?

    Muslims who’ve been arrested in the U.S. in what they claim are unfounded and spurious charges
     
    There is also truth to this as well. The government has been known to actually use agent provocateurs and entrap certain Muslims :
    http://freedominourtime.blogspot.com/2011/03/inside-fbis-terrorism-factory.html

    They have also been known to set up White militia types in a similar way. So there is a balanced line to walk. Do you really want to give the government the same powers they have to deal with terrorism as they do in, say, Algeria or China?

    Peace.

    *They definitely exist - I've met a few that wanted very little to do with politics:
    "While many quietist Salafists do not engage in political activities, they do contribute to political discourse regarding international, regional, and local political matters. Their political actions are quiet, but their political voice is loud. They lie on a continuum between absolute quietism and peaceful political engagement. The continuum between quietism and political
    activism is best examined through the life of the most prominent quietist Salafist of the last
    century, Muhammad Nasir al-Din al-Albani (d.1999)."
    https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Brookings-Analysis-Paper_Jacob-Olidort-Inside_Final_Web.pdf

    Aaaaand the takfiris bombed an ice cream shop in the middle of a night in Ramadan:

    http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/30/middleeast/baghdad-ice-cream-shop-bombing/

    And some elderly pensioners waiting in line to get their checks.

    These are vile, vile people – they are specifically targeting the young and the elderly.

    I’ll never forget in my time in SoCal – me and my friends came across a young African American convert that frequented a known Salafi-Wahhabi masjid in that area. Seemed very religious outwardly – dressed also in full Arab garb (turban, thobe, etc.). He was big on the idea that all one needed to know was the Quran and the hadith (and only the two collections of Imam Bukhari [ra] and Imam Muslim [ra] at that). Conversation went this way and that and I forget what issue came up but we pointed out to him what the scholars had ruled about it. His response was; “The scholars can go to Hell!”

    I remember my friends and I laughed that off as we were parting from him anyways. It would take me years later to realize how absolutely dangerous that kind of mentality could be.

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  23. KenH says:
    @Binyamin
    Talha, I am not Muslim but I respect your humanity and compassion. I wonder if you are an Ahmadi? For those who do not know, Ahmadis are a non violent, Muslim sect. Their outlook is modern and they are secular and preach the mantra 'love for all hatred for none'.
    Sadly, since the Manchester atrocity, two innocent people have been murdered by Alt Right terrorists in America. The Alt Right savages were screaming anti Muslim slogans. Do we hear of media hysteria about the increasing threat posed by Alt Right terrorists in the West, something which Western security services are fully aware of? You bet! Do we hear calls for the banning of foreign born Alt Right extremists and imposing on them travel restrictions ? Heck no! You think Alt Right is less evil than ISIS? Think again! Richard Spencer, the Nazi hoodlum and poster boy and guru of Alt Right has openly called for ethnic cleansing of non whites to create a white ethnic state in America. Ethnic cleansing equals genocide. No?
    This brings us to Mercer, the rather odd looking Alt Right extremist. She is foreign born and a foreign national. I would say deport her. The fight against extremism begins at home.
    Shalom!

    The Alt Right savages were screaming anti Muslim slogans. Do we hear of media hysteria about the increasing threat posed by Alt Right terrorists in the West, something which Western security services are fully aware of?

    If they were then so what? It’s called freedom of speech something that Jewish control freaks like you hate with a passion. Those “Alt Right terrorists” haven’t committed one act of terror other than speaking truths that you vehemently disagree with because you hate white people.

    You’re a typical Jew who hates and despises free thinking white people more than bloodthirsty, murderous Muslim terrorists. Or rather, you hate Muslims when they pose a threat to Jews especially in Israel but love them when they threaten white Europeans.

    Richard Spencer, the Nazi hoodlum and poster boy and guru of Alt Right has openly called for ethnic cleansing of non whites to create a white ethnic state in America. Ethnic cleansing equals genocide. No?

    Where’s your source for this claim? And if by some chance he did say it THIS IS OUR COUNTRY. The third world population pouring in to this nation will ethnically cleanse whites once they reach critical mass and acquire political power and diaspora Jews are working hard to make that prospect a reality.

    Why is it ok for Israeli Jews to ethnically cleanse Palestinians but not ok for whites to do the same in their own nations? The American Indian lives far better than the Palestinians who were violently displaced by Jewish interlopers. We aren’t bulldozing their homes and arresting and torturing them for sport as Israeli Jews do to Palestinians.

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  24. KenH says:
    @Binyamin
    Talha, I am not Muslim but I respect your humanity and compassion. I wonder if you are an Ahmadi? For those who do not know, Ahmadis are a non violent, Muslim sect. Their outlook is modern and they are secular and preach the mantra 'love for all hatred for none'.
    Sadly, since the Manchester atrocity, two innocent people have been murdered by Alt Right terrorists in America. The Alt Right savages were screaming anti Muslim slogans. Do we hear of media hysteria about the increasing threat posed by Alt Right terrorists in the West, something which Western security services are fully aware of? You bet! Do we hear calls for the banning of foreign born Alt Right extremists and imposing on them travel restrictions ? Heck no! You think Alt Right is less evil than ISIS? Think again! Richard Spencer, the Nazi hoodlum and poster boy and guru of Alt Right has openly called for ethnic cleansing of non whites to create a white ethnic state in America. Ethnic cleansing equals genocide. No?
    This brings us to Mercer, the rather odd looking Alt Right extremist. She is foreign born and a foreign national. I would say deport her. The fight against extremism begins at home.
    Shalom!

    Sadly, since the Manchester atrocity, two innocent people have been murdered by Alt Right terrorists in America

    The murderer was an alt-lefty terrorist. Try doing your research before posting next time.

    http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/05/portland-stabber-media-keep-painting-white-supremacist-trump-supporter-raging-progressive-wanted-kill-trump-supporters/

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  25. @Hannah Katz
    I propose a trade. We let the Christians and Jews living in Islamic countries immigrate to the West and in return we escort the Muslims living in the West back home to the Islamic countries. That way the Christians and Jews are safe from the Muslims and the Muslims get to live in Islamic societies under Sharia. It seems like a win - win.

    It’s an excellent proposal, Hannah the Cat, but do pork abstaining, Semitic Jews really want to dwell among uncircumcised, pig loving White Christians for physical safety and put their eternal souls in peril?

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    • Replies: @Anon

    pig loving White Christians
     
    Send 'em to Scotland.
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  26. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Pachyderm Pachyderma
    It's an excellent proposal, Hannah the Cat, but do pork abstaining, Semitic Jews really want to dwell among uncircumcised, pig loving White Christians for physical safety and put their eternal souls in peril?

    pig loving White Christians

    Send ‘em to Scotland.

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    • Replies: @Pachyderm Pachyderma
    Oy vey!
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  27. @Talha
    Interesting article. I definitely agree with the don't invade, don't invite strategy.

    Now, there are details to be considered. For instance, Ms. Mercer doesn't have to have to deal with these abstract notions of differing ideologies - way too messy. So...

    While the Muslims who strike at our families live among us, they’re not of us.
     
    OK - so I suppose that means all Muslims without differentiation? Let's take that as a starting point.

    OK - "Miss Libertarian" - square the circle for us - don't tease us with "the solution presents itself". What are you proposing? The Alhambra Decree? The Gaza option? Say it clearly please.

    Keep in mind that the extremists are disproportionately represented by converts in their ranks - these are not immigrants. So...what do we do with these people.

    Finally...

    since Islam unreformed is radical
     
    Nonsense - this is the reformation - how are you liking it so far? People think reformations go only one way; gay rights, feminism, dismantling of patriarchy, etc. Sorry, when you break with 1400 years of tradition - there's no telling what comes out of the flood gates like nail bombs in the middle of a crowd of young women or trucks running over old people.

    Quick history question; the bloodiest episodes in European history; a) preceded or b) followed The Reformation?

    Peace.

    Note: Another question, what are we supposed to do with the fact that the parents called the authorities and had told them their son was 'dangerous' and other acquaintances had called them to tell them he supported suicide bombings?
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4536624/Salman-Abedi-known-security-services-point.html

    “what are we supposed to do with the fact that the parents called the authorities and had told them their son was ‘dangerous’ and other acquaintances had called them to tell them he supported suicide bombings”

    So far that isn’t a fact, it’s an unproven (though parroted by the media) allegation. The police and security services have NOT confirmed it, although it’s known he was on a security list of 20,000 (!) “possibles” but not on the list of 3,000 “most probables”.

    I see that the brother of one of the victims, born to a Turkish mother but by his ears well-integrated into UK urban hipsterdom, doesn’t want people to link immigration and terror.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/may/31/manchester-attack-victim-martyn-hett-brother-dan-stop-using-politicise-immigration

    Btw Ilana, both the latest bomber and the Westminster knifeman were born in the UK to immigrant or asylum-granted parents (the knifeman was the son of a 17 year old native mother and immigrant father).

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    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey A Nephew,

    The police and security services have NOT confirmed it
     
    That's cool with me - do you have a source for your assertion. I'm not saying it's not true, but a link would be nice.

    Keep in mind, it is in the interest of the parents to make that assertion and in the interests of the police to deny that assertion - can't have them look like bungling fools now can we?

    doesn’t want people to link immigration and terror
     
    It should be linked by anyone who is looking at the situation reasonably - as well as linked with foreign policy.

    Peace.
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  28. @Anon

    pig loving White Christians
     
    Send 'em to Scotland.

    Oy vey!

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  29. http://www.birgun.net/haber-detay/raylarda-namaz-kilarak-tramvayi-durduran-kisi-tepki-cekti-162252.html

    Although in this case non-lethal, a good example of fanatical Islam in action in Izmir, Turkey.
    A man performed the namaz prayer on the track in front of a tram, which had to wait until he finished. You might wonder why he had to do it right there. The most likely explanation is that a religious bigot had to engage in a superiority display.

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  30. Talha says:
    @Anonymous Nephew
    "what are we supposed to do with the fact that the parents called the authorities and had told them their son was ‘dangerous’ and other acquaintances had called them to tell them he supported suicide bombings"

    So far that isn't a fact, it's an unproven (though parroted by the media) allegation. The police and security services have NOT confirmed it, although it's known he was on a security list of 20,000 (!) "possibles" but not on the list of 3,000 "most probables".

    I see that the brother of one of the victims, born to a Turkish mother but by his ears well-integrated into UK urban hipsterdom, doesn't want people to link immigration and terror.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/may/31/manchester-attack-victim-martyn-hett-brother-dan-stop-using-politicise-immigration

    Btw Ilana, both the latest bomber and the Westminster knifeman were born in the UK to immigrant or asylum-granted parents (the knifeman was the son of a 17 year old native mother and immigrant father).

    Hey A Nephew,

    The police and security services have NOT confirmed it

    That’s cool with me – do you have a source for your assertion. I’m not saying it’s not true, but a link would be nice.

    Keep in mind, it is in the interest of the parents to make that assertion and in the interests of the police to deny that assertion – can’t have them look like bungling fools now can we?

    doesn’t want people to link immigration and terror

    It should be linked by anyone who is looking at the situation reasonably – as well as linked with foreign policy.

    Peace.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous Nephew
    "do you have a source for your assertion"

    I'm asserting that no story about "we told the police/MI5 about him" has been confirmed by the police or security services and reported as such. If you "think on", as they say in Yorkshire, you'll realise I can't have a link to a negative.

    If you can find a story where X says "we told people about him" and the authorities say "yes, we were told by X" or even, "yes, we were told at the time" then please link and I'll be wrong.
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  31. @Talha
    Hey A Nephew,

    The police and security services have NOT confirmed it
     
    That's cool with me - do you have a source for your assertion. I'm not saying it's not true, but a link would be nice.

    Keep in mind, it is in the interest of the parents to make that assertion and in the interests of the police to deny that assertion - can't have them look like bungling fools now can we?

    doesn’t want people to link immigration and terror
     
    It should be linked by anyone who is looking at the situation reasonably - as well as linked with foreign policy.

    Peace.

    “do you have a source for your assertion”

    I’m asserting that no story about “we told the police/MI5 about him” has been confirmed by the police or security services and reported as such. If you “think on”, as they say in Yorkshire, you’ll realise I can’t have a link to a negative.

    If you can find a story where X says “we told people about him” and the authorities say “yes, we were told by X” or even, “yes, we were told at the time” then please link and I’ll be wrong.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous Nephew
    This chap's choosing his words carefully, too, just in case there's a report down the back of an MI5 sofa.

    http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/manchester-bomber-not-prevent-radar-police-727979753


    Speaking on BBC Radio Manchester, Ian Hopkins, the chief constable of Greater Manchester Police, said that Salman Abedi was only known to police over “relatively minor matter”, including receiving stolen good, theft and a minor assault.

    Despite earlier reports that Abedi had been reported to police over his radicalisation, Hopkins said this had not been raised with local authorities.

    “There’s been a lot of reporting and people commenting that he was reported to us on a number of occasions,” said Hopkins on Tuesday.

    “You will have heard us talk about the Prevent programme, which is about safeguarding and trying to deradicalise and deal with those who are at risk of being radicalised,” he said. “Abedi was not known to the Prevent programme. He was not on any sort of Prevent agenda.”
     

    , @KenH
    I agree. People keep claiming that his Muslim family and friends tried in vain to alert the authorities but I could find no specifics proving that claim. About two stories just had one line saying "family and friends warned authorities he was dangerous" but again no specifics such as names and dates or general time frame that the warnings were provided to authorities or why the authorities failed to follow up.

    It seems most media outlets just insert that bland statement to shift the blame to the authorities.

    About the only story I came across that might partially vindicate Muslims in Manchester is that his former imam claims he quit the mosque in anger over said imam's anti-Isis sermons. Of course, donning the conspiracy cap that could have been a convenient cover story for the mosque and all those who attend and to make Salman Abedi look like a lone wolf.

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  32. @Anonymous Nephew
    "do you have a source for your assertion"

    I'm asserting that no story about "we told the police/MI5 about him" has been confirmed by the police or security services and reported as such. If you "think on", as they say in Yorkshire, you'll realise I can't have a link to a negative.

    If you can find a story where X says "we told people about him" and the authorities say "yes, we were told by X" or even, "yes, we were told at the time" then please link and I'll be wrong.

    This chap’s choosing his words carefully, too, just in case there’s a report down the back of an MI5 sofa.

    http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/manchester-bomber-not-prevent-radar-police-727979753

    Speaking on BBC Radio Manchester, Ian Hopkins, the chief constable of Greater Manchester Police, said that Salman Abedi was only known to police over “relatively minor matter”, including receiving stolen good, theft and a minor assault.

    Despite earlier reports that Abedi had been reported to police over his radicalisation, Hopkins said this had not been raised with local authorities.

    “There’s been a lot of reporting and people commenting that he was reported to us on a number of occasions,” said Hopkins on Tuesday.

    “You will have heard us talk about the Prevent programme, which is about safeguarding and trying to deradicalise and deal with those who are at risk of being radicalised,” he said. “Abedi was not known to the Prevent programme. He was not on any sort of Prevent agenda.”

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    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey A Nephew,

    Excellent - thanks for the link. As far as I'm concerned, I stand corrected.

    Peace.
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  33. Talha says:
    @Anonymous Nephew
    This chap's choosing his words carefully, too, just in case there's a report down the back of an MI5 sofa.

    http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/manchester-bomber-not-prevent-radar-police-727979753


    Speaking on BBC Radio Manchester, Ian Hopkins, the chief constable of Greater Manchester Police, said that Salman Abedi was only known to police over “relatively minor matter”, including receiving stolen good, theft and a minor assault.

    Despite earlier reports that Abedi had been reported to police over his radicalisation, Hopkins said this had not been raised with local authorities.

    “There’s been a lot of reporting and people commenting that he was reported to us on a number of occasions,” said Hopkins on Tuesday.

    “You will have heard us talk about the Prevent programme, which is about safeguarding and trying to deradicalise and deal with those who are at risk of being radicalised,” he said. “Abedi was not known to the Prevent programme. He was not on any sort of Prevent agenda.”
     

    Hey A Nephew,

    Excellent – thanks for the link. As far as I’m concerned, I stand corrected.

    Peace.

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  34. KenH says:
    @Anonymous Nephew
    "do you have a source for your assertion"

    I'm asserting that no story about "we told the police/MI5 about him" has been confirmed by the police or security services and reported as such. If you "think on", as they say in Yorkshire, you'll realise I can't have a link to a negative.

    If you can find a story where X says "we told people about him" and the authorities say "yes, we were told by X" or even, "yes, we were told at the time" then please link and I'll be wrong.

    I agree. People keep claiming that his Muslim family and friends tried in vain to alert the authorities but I could find no specifics proving that claim. About two stories just had one line saying “family and friends warned authorities he was dangerous” but again no specifics such as names and dates or general time frame that the warnings were provided to authorities or why the authorities failed to follow up.

    It seems most media outlets just insert that bland statement to shift the blame to the authorities.

    About the only story I came across that might partially vindicate Muslims in Manchester is that his former imam claims he quit the mosque in anger over said imam’s anti-Isis sermons. Of course, donning the conspiracy cap that could have been a convenient cover story for the mosque and all those who attend and to make Salman Abedi look like a lone wolf.

    Read More
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