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Jews Must Never Forget Trump for Remembering Our Unforgettable Jerusalem
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The United Nations, naturally, disapproved.

Pope Francis, more enigmatically, protested, too, when President Donald Trump recognized Jerusalem as the eternal Capital of Israel. By 2019’s end, the Trump administration plans to open the American Embassy in Jerusalem.

There’s a reason Muslims living in Israel proper—1.5 million of them—don’t migrate to the adjacent Palestinian Authority. They’re better off in Israel. Should Jerusalem, East and West, be recognized formally as the capital of Israel only, under Jewish control alone; Christianity’s holiest sites will be better off. Judaism’s holy sites will be safer. And so will Islam’s.

Jerusalem is no settlement to be haggled over; it’s the capital of the Jewish State. King David conquered it 1000 years Before Christ. The city’s “Muslim Period” began only in the year 638 of the Common Era.

“Yerushalaim,” and not Al Quds, is the name of the city that was sacred to Jews for nearly two thousand years before Muhammad.

Indeed, not once is Jerusalem mentioned in the Quran. And while Muhammad was said to have departed to the heavens from the Al Aksa Mosque, there was no mosque in Jerusalem. The Dome of the Rock and the Al Aksa Mosque were built upon the Jewish Temple Mount. Muslim theologians subsequently justified this usurpation by superimposing their own chronology—and relatively recent fondness for Jerusalem—upon the existing, ancient sanctity of the place to Jews.

Essentially, this amounts to historical identity theft.

It’s bad enough that Bethlehem—the burial site of the matriarch Rachel, birthplace to King David and Jesus and site of the Church of the Nativity—is controlled by the Palestinians. But, as one wag wondered, “How would Christians react if Muslim theologians had chosen to appropriate the Church of the Holy Sepulcher, rename it and declare it Muslim property?”

There is nothing Solomonic about splitting Jerusalem, which—it bears repeating—was sacred to Jews for nearly two millennia before Muhammad and is not in the Quran. “The Muslim Claim to Jerusalem,” notes Dr. Daniel Pipes, is political, not religious or historic. As such, it’s also a recent project. “Centuries of neglect came to an abrupt end after June 1967, when the Old City came under Israeli control,” explains Pipes. “Palestinians [then] again made Jerusalem the centerpiece of their political program, [when, in fact] Mecca is the eternal city of Islam, the place from which non-Muslims are strictly forbidden. Very roughly speaking, [Mecca is to Islam] what Jerusalem is to Judaism.”

East Jerusalem was not annexed in June of 1967. Rather, Jerusalem was unified.

Loose paraphrasing of U.N. resolution 242 requires Israel to give the Golan Heights to Syria (which is tantamount to returning land to the aggressors) and allow the Palestinians to establish a state capital in East Jerusalem. For their concessions, this “peace initiative” entitles Israelis to “an effective veto” on the national suicide pact known as the right of return: the imperative to absorb millions of self-styled Palestinian “refugees” into Israel proper.

(A similar mystical right—call it a global right of return to the US for citizens of the world—was discovered in the US Constitution by Trump-hating, Gold Star father Khizr Khan, and, shamefully, by a majority of American Jews on the Left.)

A quick quiz: What does “unoccupied” or “liberated” Palestinian land look like? Answer: Like Gaza.

Gaza serves as a sufficiently strong precedent against the folly of ceding territory to Islam. (With the exception of the long-suffering Kurds, what Muslim nation has recently made good on territory gained or on self-determination won?)

Gaza was “returned” to the Palestinians, who promptly destroyed the hothouses Israelis had built there, and planted in the ground Qassam rocket launchers, instead. Gaza now hothouses Hamasniks. In all, granting statehood to their nihilistic neighbors has been pretty thankless for Israelis.

But what of Palestinian families who’ve resided in The City for generations? This the libertarian must address.

The question of generational attachment to place and title in property is simple to solve if intentions are good.

Of course Palestinians should retain their properties.

An historical, national Jewish right to the city of Jerusalem does not extinguish the property rights of individual Arab homesteaders acquired over the years.

Muslims residing in East Jerusalem must just learn to extend to their Jewish neighbors the courtesy their Muslim brethren receive from their Jewish neighbors, in Israel proper.

In other words, allow Jews to live in peace. Or, just live.

Faith and the facts of history notwithstanding, Jerusalem undivided as the capital of the Jewish State is what Christians should be praying for if they value celebrating future Easter Holy Weeks in the Church of the Holy Sepulcher, located in Jerusalem’s Old City.

The current pontiff is not Pope Benedict, who was—still is—a brave and brilliant scholar.

ORDER IT NOW

Pope Francis is likely more familiar with Quranic verses than with Psalms 137:5, in which the exiled Jews likened forgetting Jerusalem to forgetting the function of one’s right hand. (Literally translated, it is a vow: “If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, let my right hand forget her cunning.”)

That was in 607 BC (Before Christ), and we Jews have still not forgotten.

Ilana Mercer has been writing a weekly, paleolibertarian column since 1999. She is the author of “Into the Cannibal’s Pot: Lessons for America From Post-Apartheid South Africa (2011) & “The Trump Revolution: The Donald’s Creative Destruction Deconstructed (June, 2016). She’s on Twitter, Facebook,Gab & YouTube.

 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: Donald Trump, Israel 
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  1. anon • Disclaimer says:

    Good grief.
    There’s nothing quite like religion.

  2. Muslims, Jews…you both need to leave Jerusalem. Once that pathetic antipope Francis is gone, the next pontiff should find some suitable French aristocrats and declare a new crusade…the kingdom of Jerusalem must be reestablished.

    • Agree: utu
    • Replies: @Talha
    , @iffen
  3. “Yerushalaim,” and not Al Quds, is the name of the city that was sacred to Jews for nearly two thousand years before Muhammad.”

    Well, OK. My cousin, rest her soul, when we were kids, pronounced it Jahroozlieham. We spoke a Piedmont Carolina dialect of English that’s mostly extinct now. I kind of prefer that pronunciation, if y’all jewish folks don’t mind.

    • Replies: @dearieme
    , @druid
  4. Kingfelix says:

    “A quick quiz: What does “unoccupied” or “liberated” Palestinian land look like? Answer: Like Gaza.”

    An astonishing assertion, in an article that contains plenty of outrageous statements.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  5. Talha says:
    @German_reader

    LOOL! Yo, come getcha some boy!

    This will of course help French population take an even steeper nosedive as its young men are sent into the Middle East meat grinder.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    , @Anon
  6. Talha says:

    Very interesting article. This of course may work for its appeal to Western audiences – Daniel Pipes doesn’t really get to declare what we believe is sacred or not.

    But at some point you have to sell it to the Muslims, 1.6 billion of them. The argument is not very convincing from our perspective since we believe those were our prophets and the city is sacred to us as well. You can call it cultural appropriation or whatever, but that kind of nonsense works with Western audiences, not us. I’d honestly like to go the sharing route, but if the Israelis insist on Jewish-only control, well – that’s simply not acceptable. We’ve got time, we’re not going anywhere – we’ll wait…and fight. Your move…

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Tyrion 2
    , @OilcanFloyd
  7. joe webb says:

    funny: ” In other words, allow Jews to live in peace. Or, just live”. Author is a liberal jew? Jeeze!
    on land stolen from somebody else, any goy will do.

    When Israel allowe Arabs to live in peace….any pay for what you stole. That might be a peace plan.
    Return stolen property and make restitution. Try starting in Syria right now.

    All Jews Out of Arab land. Or, if Palestinians agree to some kind of purchase AND a Palestinian state. Fine, up to them. “And Everubody hates the jews”… punch line in an old Tom Lehrer song

    The arrogance off the Jews is boundless. War will always be with them. That seems to be what they want.

    The only reason Israel exists is Protestants and Catholic nutcases. It is all just a crusade. And the rest of us pay for it.

    Another solution is to bulldoze Jerusalem and dump the rubble in the sea. Allow pilgrimages to the New Holy Site from anybody on the bases of idiots first. There could be scuba diving and jews could leave messages in the rocks. Muslims could do whatever they do with their butts up in the air/water. Take me Allah.

    If your respective gods had a sense of humor, he would wipe you all out and start over.

    How about Jews letting White folks live in peace too instead of jewish subversion , war for Israel, and WWThree, compliments of the Jews.

    “PS all the yak about 2000 years ago is pure war talk. Get over it. What’s the word? Revanchist is one of them. Old borders from millennia ago…keep it up jewgirl and into the killing fields you lead your fanatics….. yet again.
    Libertarians are nuts, like old-line liberals…repeat after me…All men are whatever…congrats, you now be a citizen.

    oe Webb

    • Agree: druid
    • Replies: @druid
  8. Biff says:

    One has to stand back in awe of the greatest bullshit story ever told. The champion of false promises and exaggerated claims – Religion.

    Not my words.

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  9. Talha says:
    @Talha

    And it’s quite strange that Ms. Mercer would be trying to tell Christians what would be good for them when the heads of the Christian Churches in the area already stated clearly that Jerusalem should retain international status:

    https://www.lpj.org/heads-local-churches-send-letter-to-president-donald-trump-regarding-status-of-jerusalem/

    Or is Ms. Mercer going to also teach them about their proper theological stances?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  10. So here’s the reason for the Mercer’s family contributing $millions to the Trump’s campaign!!

    • Replies: @Chet Roman
  11. anon • Disclaimer says:

    High level question: The year’s 2050. What does the Israel Palestine situation most probably look like?

    Possibilities:

    1 Looks like the current status quo. Current borders intact. More settlement building. “Occupation” continues.
    2 They have agreed to two sovereign states with defined borders.
    3 The two populations have merged into one state with equal rights for all citizens.
    4 The Palestinians have been ethnically cleansed from the West Bank and/or Gaza, and fled to Jordan/Egypt/USA/Europe (Probably on pretext of war).
    5 Some combination of these or additional options?

    • Replies: @byrresheim
  12. AnalogMan says:

    To hell with them all. I, for one, will never forget the part played by the Jews, including Ilana’s father, the Rabbi, in destroying my homeland, South Africa. There is a reckoning coming, and I hope I live to see it. You people always push, push, push, until it blows up in your faces.

    I know you won’t publish this, and that’s OK. The message is for you.

    • Replies: @David
    , @Alden
  13. mcohen says:

    Well written and factual piece.donald trump kept his word regarding the embassy move,but peace should be the final goal.The huge amounts of defence spending could be otherwise used to build a just and better society for all of israels citizens.

    • Replies: @jconsley
  14. renfro says:

    Pardon me dear Ilana, but would you kindly blow your smoke up your own ass and not ours.

    Anyone want the real non biblical history of Jerusalem ?…the one agreed on by all creditable historians. Then follow the time line of Arabia in Thompson’s book below. It is the factual historical account acknowledged by all historians world wide. None of these dates or events or groups are disputed by any serious historian…..except of course by the Jewish myth makers.

    # Jerusalem was not founded by Jews, i.e. adherents of the Jewish religion. It was founded between 3000 BCE and 2600 BCE by a West Semitic people or possibly the Canaanites, the common ancestors of Palestinians, Lebanese, many Syrians and Jordanians, and many Jews. But when it was founded Jews did not exist.

    # Jerusalem was founded in honor of the ancient god Shalem. It does not mean City of Peace but rather ‘built-up place of Shalem.”

    # The “Jewish people” were not building Jerusalem 3000 years ago, i.e. 1000 BCE. First of all, it is not clear when exactly Judaism as a religion centered on the worship of the one God took firm form. It appears to have been a late development since no evidence of worship of anything but ordinary Canaanite deities has been found in archeological sites through 1000 BCE. There was no invasion of geographical Palestine from Egypt by former slaves in the 1200s BCE. The pyramids had been built much earlier and had not used slave labor. The chronicle of the events of the reign of Ramses II on the wall in Luxor does not know about any major slave revolts or flights by same into the Sinai peninsula. Egyptian sources never heard of Moses or the 10 plagues & etc. Jews and Judaism emerged from a certain social class of Canaanites over a period of centuries inside Palestine.

    # Jerusalem not only was not being built by the likely then non-existent “Jewish people” in 1000 BCE, but Jerusalem probably was not even inhabited at that point in history. Jerusalem appears to have been abandoned between 1000 BCE and 900 BCE, the traditional dates for the united kingdom under David and Solomon. So Jerusalem was not ‘the city of David,’ since there was no city when he is said to have lived. No sign of magnificent palaces or great states has been found in the archeology of this period, and the Assyrian tablets, which recorded even minor events throughout the Middle East, such as the actions of Arab queens, don’t know about any great kingdom of David and Solomon in geographical Palestine.

    # Since archeology does not show the existence of a Jewish kingdom or kingdoms in the so-called First Temple Period, it is not clear when exactly the Jewish people would have ruled Jerusalem except for the Hasmonean Kingdom.
    The Assyrians conquered Jerusalem in 722.
    The Babylonians took it in 597 and ruled it until they were themselves conquered in 539 BCE by the Achaemenids of ancient Iran, who ruled Jerusalem until Alexander the Great took the Levant in the 330s BCE.
    Alexander’s descendants, the Ptolemies ruled Jerusalem until 198 when Alexander’s other descendants, the Seleucids, took the city.
    With the Maccabean Revolt in 168 BCE, the Jewish Hasmonean kingdom did rule Jerusalem until 37 BCE, though Antigonus II Mattathias, the last Hasmonean, only took over Jerusalem with the help of the Parthian dynasty in 40 BCE.
    Herod ruled 37 BCE until the Romans conquered what they called Palestine in 6 CE (CE= ‘Common Era’ or what Christians call AD).
    The Romans and then the Eastern Roman Empire of Byzantium ruled Jerusalem from 6 CE until 614 CE when the Iranian Sasanian Empire Conquered it, ruling until 629 CE when the Byzantines took it back.

    #The Muslims conquered Jerusalem in 638 and ruled it until 1099 when the Crusaders conquered it.
    The Crusaders killed or expelled Jews and Muslims from the city.
    The Muslims under Saladin took it back in 1187 CE and allowed Jews to return, and Muslims ruled it until the end of World War I, or altogether for about 1192 years.

    #Adherents of Judaism did not found Jerusalem. It existed for perhaps 2700 years before anything we might recognize as Judaism arose. Jewish rule may have been no longer than 170 years or so, i.e., the kingdom of the Hasmoneans.

    # Therefore if historical building of Jerusalem and historical connection with Jerusalem establishes sovereignty over it as Netanyahu claims, here are the groups that have the greatest claim to the city:

    A. The Muslims, who ruled it and built it over 1191 years.

    B. The Egyptians, who ruled it as a vassal state for several hundred years in the second millennium BCE.

    C. The Italians, who ruled it about 444 years until the fall of the Roman Empire in 450 CE.

    D. The Iranians, who ruled it for 205 years under the Achaemenids, for three years under the Parthians (insofar as the last Hasmonean was actually their vassal), and for 15 years under the Sasanids.

    E. The Greeks, who ruled it for over 160 years if we count the Ptolemys and Seleucids as Greek. If we count them as Egyptians and Syrians, that would increase the Egyptian claim and introduce a Syrian one.

    F. The successor states to the Byzantines, which could be either Greece or Turkey, who ruled it 188 years, though if we consider the heir to be Greece and add in the time the Hellenistic Greek dynasties ruled it, that would give Greece nearly 350 years as ruler of Jerusalem.

    G. There is an Iraqi claim to Jerusalem based on the Assyrian and Babylonian conquests, as well as perhaps the rule of the Ayyubids (Saladin’s dynasty), who were Kurds from Iraq.

    Source, Thomas Thompson History of Arabia

    http://www.amazon.ca/gp/search?index=books&linkCode=qs&keywords=0567083608

  15. Wonderful article: Zionist/Jewish propaganda at its best.

    • Replies: @snag
  16. renfro says:

    Jerusalem undivided as the capital of the Jewish State is what Christians should be praying for

    There you go again…liar, liar pants on fire!…naughty girlie.

    Its not the Muslims Christians fear its the Jews.

    ‘Jerusalem has to be shared’: Palestinian Christians decry Trump’

    https://www.alaraby.co.uk/…/palestinian-christians-decry-trumps-jerusalem-decision

    Dec 12, 2017 – Trump’s decision to recognise Jerusalem as Israel’s capital has left Palestinian Christians dismayed, with communities worried about their future in the city following the historic shift in … “We have to remind Mike Pence and others that Palestinians were the first church and the first followers of Jesus Christ.”.

    Why Christians are leaving occupied Palestine – Mondoweiss
    mondoweiss.net/2012/07/why-christians-are-leaving-occupied-palestine/
    Jul 1, 2012 – Palestinian Christians call themselves ‘living stones’ there, a term our media will never use as it publicizes their long long history there as the first Christians. Palestinian Bishop Ramzi R. Musallam: “I support Palestine the first land that accepted Jesus and followed Him. Palestine will be protected by Christ

    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
  17. Unbelievable, not recognising Gaza as the biggest and oldest concentration camp on earth.
    Israel is doomed, with friends like this.

  18. renfro says:

    P.S.

    The Jews have always hated Christians . So much for the myth of the poor innocent Jews persecuted for no reason.

    c.930: Patriarch Eutychius of Alexandria, Eutychii Annales:

    CHAPTER II: ADVERSITIES OF THE CHURCH.: 1 Persecutions of the Christians.: …The Christians suffered less in this than in the preceding centuries. …In the East especially in Syria and Palestine the Jews sometimes rose upon the Christians with great violence (Eutyrhius, Annales ii., p. 236, Jo. Henr. Hottinger, Historia Orientalis, lib. p. 129, ) ….yet so unsuccessfully as to suffer severely for their temerity. (Mosheim 1847, p. 426, at Google Books)

    James Parkes described the slaughter of Christians by Jews in his book, A History of Palestine from 135 AD to Modern Times :

    “60,000 Christians were murdered by Jews at the Mamilla Pool in Palestine. A precise number is of course hard to say but Israeli archaeologist Ronny Reich puts the tally at 60,000 before the Persian military stopped the carnage.

    One eyewitness, Strategius of St. Sabas, wrote: “Jews ransomed the Christians from the hands of the Persian soldiers for good money, and slaughtered them with great joy at Mamilla Pool, and it ran with blood.”

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  19. utu says:

    Justice for Palestinians!

  20. EolAwki says:

    “Jews Must Never Forget Trump for Remembering Our Unforgettable Jerusalem”

    Neither must we Goys. It must also not be forgotten that those occupying “Israel” today have little-to-no Semitic blood in them, being people with European genetics instead. They are imposters, just as their ‘Jewish regime’ is illegal. being usurped from the Palestinians in the late 40s.

  21. Ace says:

    Israel acquired sovereignty over its territory like most every other nations on earth, namely, by military conquest and a dash of terror and one-way land purchase. Nothing over which Israelis enjoy a monopoly. They did also have some strange belief they had a right to show up in Palestine or “Palestine” in the thousands. Local Arabs not unreasonably wondered why that was exactly.

    Historical or biblical claims are meaningless. Jews got kicked out of that neck of the woods a long time ago and that was it as regards any of such claims. People who nurse dreams of recovering lands they or their very distant ancestors lost are a dime a dozen. If you want land “back” you take it in the time-honored human way.

    I’m not up on genetics but I get the impression that Khazarian Jews have no historical connection to Israel at all, so it definitely is just sovereignty based on military force in the main with credible allegations of harsh Jewish methods at the outset to encourage Arabs to flee. At this point, what difference does it make? Mazeltov to the conquerors, with or without a connection, and if the Muslims are torqued it’s of little concern to any kuffar as dhimmi status (or worse) would be the rule if Arabs were top dog.

    If Israel wants to call Jerusalem its capital for any reason that’s a power that goes with sovereignty. If the S. African government says Pretoria is the capital of S.A. then it makes no sense for Trump to order the U.S. embassy to be in Durban. Ditto re Jerusalem and Tell Aviv. Don’t read anything else into it.

    And Benedict is a vicious dissembler.

    I agree everyone should live in peace. However, I don’t think Israel’s bombing Syria ad libidum, supporting terrorists in Syria, and working toward a balkanized Syria with a powerful ISIS component can be seen as wanting to “live in peace” with anyone. Clearly Israel also wants to pick a fight with Iran and, of course, hold our coat while we do the fighting for you.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  22. sarz says:

    Since unz is a free speech site, it’s only fitting that Judaic loonies be given space here as well, at least once in a while, if only to let readers have a chance to respond, that the Judaic media would never allow.

    Suppose you got a few million people in India convinced that G_d had made an announcement that Manhattan was their gift from him. And once in a while over many years the topic came up in casual conversation. What would it take for the Judaic author to concede their right to take the whole place over, expelling the natives except for a few pushed onto Governor’s Island, where they were penned without access to much anything including water, and bombed every few years to “mow the grass”?

    What if it turned out they were confusing Manhattan with some other place?

    See Kamal Salibi’s book, The Bible Came from Arabia. There is one copy at Amazon. Or see this 1984 review of his book, at https://csmonitor.com/1984/0831/083139.html.

    Or, see this by Ashraf Ezzat: https://ashraf62.wordpress.com/2017/12/08/mr-trump-jerusalem-is-not-the-capital-of-biblical-israel/

    Turns out the original Jerusalem is not in Palestine. It’s in Yemen. The whole lot of trouble-making Jews were brought from there, with its main village Ur-Salem, to Babylon. It’s called the Babylonian captivity and it lasted almost a hundred years. They then headed back home, except their IQs must have been much lower back then. They landed up many hundred miles from home, in Palestine.

    The second temple was built there. The silly putzlette quotes “If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, let my right hand forget her cunning.” Okay, then, so be it with her hand. And those of fellow Judaics of the last two and a half thousand years. Amen!

    And even in al Quds, the Judaics are pretending that the walls of the old Roman fort, all that was left of so-called Jerusalem by the time the Romans were done with it, and as Jesus had foretold, not one stone left on another, they are pretending that this is the remains of their second temple. It’s not a matter of forgetting this time. Everyone whom one would expect to be well-informed knows very well that the temple was located about a mile away, near a stream. But pretending it’s the fort gives more scope for Judaic mischief.

    In any case, most of the ‘Israelis’ are Turks from Ashkenaz, and not at all the descendants of Abraham. You’re not allowed to bring that up, of course. It’s antisemitic. To say Ashkenazis are not really semites. Go figure.

    These people are a real nuisance. I think Trump is pretending to be on their side while he gets America’s act together. They should be sent back to Poland. Or to a place they are actually entitled to, Birobidzhan.

    • Replies: @Alden
    , @snag
    , @snag
  23. There’s a reason Muslims living in Israel proper—1.5 million of them—don’t migrate to the adjacent Palestinian Authority. They’re better off in Israel.

    Erm..they don’t go over to Palestinian controlled territory because why should they, exactly? I mean most of them have always lived where they currently live in Israel. It is, and I emphasize this point, their land.

    So what you are basically saying is why don’t they f**k off to West bank? Like why don’t the Blacks f**k off to somewhere else. Or the Chinese. Or the Jews?

    And need I remind you that West bank and Gaza are unlivable because they are basically a cluster of Bantustans kept in economic choke hold by…who exactly?

    Talk about inverting the truth.

    Listen we get it that you want Jerusalem to remain under Israeli control. As long as the Palestinians are allowed to stay as equal citizens (which you more or less agree to), this isn’t exactly a catastrophe. But spare us the BS justifications.

  24. dearieme says:

    Is treating the Old Testament as history a sign of madness? Or at least of lack of capacity for critical thinking?

  25. iffen says:
    @German_reader

    LOL

    Maybe if you provided a few German princes to go along with the French aristocrats the group might make it a few miles before someone took their lunch money.

  26. Greg Bacon says: • Website

    What is is about the Jewish DNA that requires them to be in the spotlight 24/7, with the entire world always hearing their complaints, whining, historical hallucinations, bitching, demands, threats, more demands and always threatening their neighbors with an invasion or a good bombing or some Mossad assassination or pulling off some False Flag which the Jewish media always blames on the Muslim world, which gives Israel the cover it needs to steal more of Syria or Palestine or Lebanon?

    There’s a reason that Jews have been kicked out of over 100 cities, states and nations over the centuries and until the Jews look into the mirror and figure out THEY need to change their violently aggressive character, illusions about history and they way they interact with GOYIM, the world will not know peace.

  27. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Christ destroyed the Jews. The Jews no longer exist. And as such the posers who claim to be Jews are not entitled to spit.

  28. Shazad says:

    The author forgets the little bit of intervening history that goes like this . . . After the Jews start misbehaving God kicks the Jews out of the Holy City (Al Quds), twice. Because their status in the Holy City was conditional (weird how God’s privileges come with strings attached, just like one would expect). Once, at the hands of the Babylonians; upon forgiveness and reinstatement, they are kicked out again for their collective crime of killing John the Baptist and, according to Muslims, trying to kill Jesus (according to Christians, succeeding).

    By the way, the reverential Dr. Daniel Pipes is a well know Orientalist (aka Muslim hater). It doesn’t add much to add him as a reference to an Islam/Muslim hating article.

  29. Dr. Doom says:

    Are they going to forget he didn’t get any of his allies to follow him before he decided to do this?
    I’m trying to forget that myself. He did manage to get Guatemala, AKA the worst country on Earth and apparently in The Sixth World all by itself.
    How did he not get Canada? The Prime Minister is the son of the woman who is the punch line for just about every Canadian joke I’ve heard my entire life. If I was President, I could probably get this dork to make beer runs for me.

  30. anon • Disclaimer says:

    Why doesn’t “unoccupied” Palestinian land look like Beirut?

  31. Jake says:

    The title of this article proclaims a great truth, and in so doing, it draws attention to the fact that Jews – certainly those who lead and are followed – invariably do the opposite. Jews can be counted on to bite off the nose of friends, at times because of ancient enmity and at other times just to show who’s boss. And it always ends up playing out as Jews biting off their own noses to spite their own Jewish faces.

    In short, Jewish liberalism, particularly transforming the various non-white peoples and non-Christian religions into sacred cows that are encouraged at every turn to bash Whitey and demand Christian castrate itself, will eventually lead to a blowback enevloping Jews that could make the period 1933-1945 seem like a pretty good time.

    And that blowback will not be lead by any group of white Gentiles. It will be the various brown and black Moslems, with Asians joining the fun, hoping to secure major spoils. The blowback’s main thrust will be about skin pigmentation and wealth controlled by those who have white skins.

    That slaughter will not commence until after both Europe and the US are filled with Moslems, who have been granted special rights and privileges as ‘victims’ of the West.

    And when it ignites, Jewish power in the European capitals and, especially, America, will be the focuses. Only after that absorbs the ‘racist’ white nations in a desperate battle to survive, which will require them to be mean to their own delightful Moslem citizens and legal residents, will the several millions of Arabs rush toward Israel in a giant suicide bombing.

    The Sunni militants the Israelis think they are making their friends by helping them try to destroy Iran will be happy to die by the millions to ‘free Jerusalem’ and exterminate Jews from Palestine.

    Yes, Israel could win by using its illegally acquired nukes, but i winning that way, Israel destroys itself forever.

    Jews are every bit as insanely suicidal as Swedes or Germans or white American Liberals, or Catholic Liberals like Pope Francis and Jesuit priests Antonio Spadaro and James Martin.

    • Replies: @Alden
  32. Jerusalem belongs equally to Christians, Moslems and Jews and isn’t any safer in the hands of Zionists than it would be in the hands of the Saudis.

    Let it become (and it will) an international city for people of all the Abrahamic faiths to enjoy and worship in freely.

    • Agree: Talha
  33. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Just me

    Clickbait.

    Time to have Mr. Unz choose a fresh version of The Mercer Image?

  34. wayfarer says:

    Abrahamism, the world’s oldest racket;

    infringing on mankind’s free will for 2700 years;

    maintaining the status-quo of a human spirit, divided and conquered;

    suppressing boundless truth, imaginative creativity, and open-minded critical thinking;

    offering ignorant ideology, stale dogma, rose-colored myths, and toxic certitude;

    providing its rabbis, priests, and imams with a thimble full of love/wisdom, and the “sacred” least-common-denominator with which to produce equivalent-fractions in the form of blind followers.

    source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abrahamic_religions

  35. Indeed, not once is Jerusalem mentioned in the Quran. And while Muhammad was said to have departed to the heavens from the Al Aksa Mosque, there was no mosque in Jerusalem.

    Wrong!

    According to Islam 101, “The Farthest Mosque” is in the Quran. Throughout the complete life of Mohammad, he and all Muslims used to pray towards “The Farthest Mosque”. Almost at the end of Mohammad’s life when Mecca was conquered and all the idols destroyed, then the direction was changed to Mecca. Again, this is in the Quran too.

    70 years is a page in the history, and the testimonial to this is the recent downing of IAF F16. Another CCR song, “I ain’t lying….” comes to mind, along with the recent song of CCR by Mr. Phil Giraldi, “Bad Moon Rising…”

  36. Zumbuddi says:
    @renfro

    Excellent work, thanks, especially for identification of Thompson’s [email protected]#t grinder.
    I spent the last 4 days trying to synchro use the timeline of of the 2 + 10 tribes of the habiru — which means “nomad” or “thieves” depending on the evidence base of the author: archeologists report the earliest artifact bearing the word links it to “thieves.”

    In my search I consulted only Jewish scholars, four of them They can’t even agree on a basic timeline.

    Second only to the lie of the holohoax is the lie that Hebrew scriptures represent spirituality or ethics or morality, or a unique and core contribution to Western Civilization. The world would be a better place if Abraham’s mother had had an abortion & Ezra never learned to write.

    • Replies: @Alden
  37. Well?
    I would put it this way.
    All ruins in Jerusalem are from buildings what Jews did built.
    So Jerusalem must be Jewish.
    Jaaaaaaaaaaa!
    There were all kinds of kingdoms that did rule that area but they were not building too much there.
    They were only steeling goats from Jews.
    Eventually Muslims did built some mosque there and Christians built some churches but that is all right. Jews did not demolish them.

    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
  38. Joe Hide says:

    Weird, rambling, strange, off-point. I generally give Mercer high marks.

    • Agree: Ace
  39. helena says:
    @renfro

    I don’t see why you put Italians third. I should think their postCE claim outweighs a BCE claim of about the same length.
    You don’t indicate which Mulsim groups were in charge throughout the 1191yr peiod. If we takle Islam as a civilisation then the corresponding GrecoRomanChristian civilisation would add up to potentially 954.

  40. @Biff

    George was on a roll there, it’s one of my favourite bits.

  41. The author’s attempt to hijack the Catholic Church and use it as a mere instrument for the advancement of Jewish interests will undoubtedly annoy many Catholics worldwide.

  42. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    All the zionist liars get lost!!!!!!!

  43. @Talha

    It wasn’t exactly a serious proposal. I don’t care much about Jerusalem, but at least in theory I’d be in favour of either some internationalization of the city, or East Jerusalem being part of a Palestinian state. Both are unlikely to happen though.

    • Replies: @Talha
  44. Pandos says:
    @renfro

    The jews started out as chroniclers and ended up thieves.

  45. Tyrion 2 says:
    @Talha

    The argument is not very convincing from our perspective since we believe those were our prophets and the city is sacred to us as well.

    Islam is to Judaism what the Jason Momoa ‘Conan’ is to the Schwarzenegger original. Overwrought, pointlessly violent, devoid of all wit, charm and an obvious exercise in a group of very dull people missing the point.

    That Muslims think their cheap knock-off means that they have some sort of spiritual connection to Jerusalem makes as much sense as me having the right to the Great Wall of China because I can, like an idiot, paint myself yellow and squint my eyes.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @jacques sheete
    , @AaronB
  46. Talha says:
    @German_reader

    I know G_R, my response was also not too serious. I’d rather not be in a situation where the Muslim world is obligated to kill a bunch of well-armed, invading Europeans again.

    The Europe that would go to arms because encroaching Seljuks were stopping their religious pilgrimages are gone – long gone. I don’t know if they’ll ever return. When one is fighting unconsciousness while bleeding out, looking at a charred stump that used to be their arm, they ponder things like; why did I come here? If they do, we can consider these possibilities in a more serious manner since the Muslims that are willing to die for the right to the city are…well, we got quite a bit (perhaps too many for comfort).

    I’m for a more equitable internationalization of the city to resolve matters without bloodshed. It is clear that the Israelis cannot make steps on their own, they need a bunch of big guys in their corner in order to counter the Muslim ‘hordes’. This is what Ms. Mercer’s article is about; it is an appeal to Zionist-minded Christians. The local Churches of the East are clear on the matter, they are either on the side of the Palestinians or neutral, but none that I can think of support Israeli annexation of Jerusalem. Neither is it supported by the UN – it will never pass.

    Let’s give it a couple more generations and see what comes out…we’re in no rush, we’re going nowhere.

    Peace.

  47. nickels says:

    1) Jews are Turks, hence no racial connection to their desert racial Reich.

    http://jewishnews.timesofisrael.com/report-finds-ashkinazi-jews-descended-from-turks/

    2) Judaism is based on a religion that was created in Babylon centuries after Jews were booted from Aelia Capitolina. Secular Jews worship an atheistic pantheism created by Spinoza in Europe a thousand plus years later. So no connection.
    3) Zionists created modern Isreal by ethnic cleansing of 800,000 Palestinians, a war crime still to be reckoned. Further, Brits promised the region to both Arabs and Ottoman’s and Jews simultaneously during WW1, and blood was spilled by Arab and turk for this promise.
    4) Israel is the body of Christians, i.e. those who do as Christ told, not a piece of real estate. Christians are the inheritors of Abraham’s kingdom.

    Covenants are a bitsh.

  48. jconsley says:
    @mcohen

    How about the U.S. tax dollars given to Israeli Jews be used for road, bridges, education and health care for Americans? If Israel wants peace rather than annexing Arab lands, let Israelis make the sacrifices that Americans are now making for Israel. Let Israel fight Iran — no American tax dollars to be used for war with Iran. Israel has been the aggressor and attacked many countries in the middle east: Iran has attacked none! The author’s premises are categorically propaganda. Trump has been and is a disaster for the U.S. There is nothing ethical to be found in any of his actions.

  49. @Ace

    Land purchase by zionists ?
    Officiallly just seven percent of the land called Israel inside the 1967 cease fire lines is jewish property.
    And even this is very questionable.
    Around 1860 the Ottomans wanted land registered, for taxes, and military service.
    The Palestinians boycotted.
    The Ottoman tax farmers in Beirut then registered the land in their own names, and ‘sold’ to zionist settlers.
    The Palestinian owners were driven out by Ottoman gendarmes and soldiers.
    The Palestinians resisted, and so the first armed conflict between Palestinians and zionists was already in 1880, Petah Tikvah.

    • Replies: @Old Jew
    , @Old Jew
    , @Ace
  50. Thank you for this, Ilana. You knew the backlash this piece would get you and you published it nonetheless which is highly admirable. Jerusalem is the eternal capital of the Jewish people, and it would have no historical relevance if not for Jews. The rabid idiots in this comment section think saying anything remotely favorable towards Israel is “Zionist propaganda”, yet this site regularly publishes anti-Israel articles. It’s refreshing every so often to hear from someone who doesn’t have utter contempt for the state of Israel. To the fanatics in the comments, go read Israel Shamir if you’re so hungry for an anti-Israel messages. After all, it’s what he’s devoted his life to.

    • Troll: Twodees Partain
  51. Talha says:
    @Tyrion 2

    Hey Tyrion2,

    You consider us a knock-off, that idea was never entertained by us – we are far, far bigger than a Semitic narrative. Judaism is a (prominent) branch of Islam. Islam is the original package, it has come full circle, we are as old as mankind itself. We claim a spiritual connection and right to all of God’s emissaries – all of them.

    You have opinions, we have them too.

    Like I mentioned before, we are under sacred obligation to recognize the rights of Christians and Jews to the city – they are under no similar obligation from their side. If you want to fight for it – don’t waste our time trying to dissect our tradition through your own lens – just man up and say so…if you’ve been paying attention, there hasn’t been a dance in that area that we’ve sat out; Byzantines, Latins, Mongols, etc. What’s it worth to you? I mean in your own lives, not in the lives of Christians that you use as proxies…

    “O people, do not desire to meet the enemy, but rather ask Allah for security. If you meet your enemy in battle, then be patient and know that Paradise is under the shade of swords.” – reported in Bukhari & Muslim

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
    , @Tyrion 2
    , @Bliss
  52. RudyM says:

    It’s not yours, creep.

  53. annamaria says:

    Oded Yinon plan for Eretz Israel in action: http://www.moonofalabama.org/2018/02/syria-the-two-east-ghouta-campaigns-one-is-for-liberation-the-other-to-save-terrorists.html#more
    “Syria – The Two East-Ghouta Campaigns – One Is For Liberation [by Syrian government and the legally-present Russians], The Other To Save Terrorists [by the US/NATO/Israel].
    Israel wants the Golan Heights, by any means. The dead-soul Cheney wants to profit on the Golan Heights mineral deposits; all his immediate family deserves to be ostracized. The very name “Cheney” should be a moniker for “American traitor.”
    Israel-firsters in the US and UK have been the driving force for the ongoing wars in the Middle East. Four million humans beings died since 1999 because of the ziocon/neocon design for the Middle East (see also PNAC). Jewish tribe at large is responsible for the slaughter — time for the supremacists to taste their medicine that they have been force-feeding Germans since WWII.

  54. jconsley says:

    If anyone comments on U.S. tax dollars to Israel, it is never published. What is controversial about reminding tax payers of where their money is given? Why is the U.S. fighting wars in the Middle East? Israel has already proclaimed it will take miles of Syrian land to expand its non-designated borders!

    • Replies: @Ace
  55. @Monty Ahwazi

    Ilana Mercer is an radical Zionist Jew from South Africa, not related to the billionaire Mercers that supported Bannon and donated to Trump. Robert Mercer, the billionaire, mainly supported Trump hoping to get the IRS to cancel their attempt to fine him $6.8 billion, which is still pending.

    • Replies: @Monty Ahwazi
  56. Two fifth-generation Sukhoi-57 stealth fighters landed Monday, Feb. 19 at Russia’s Syrian air base, along with 4 Su-35 fighters, 4 Su-25 strike aircraft and an A-50U radar command-and-control platform.

    This top-performance fleet raises Russia’s air strike and defense capabilities in Syria to the highest standards of any air force in the world, with enough power to take on superior US and Israeli air might in the Syrian arena. The Su-57’s weapon bays are designed to carry Russia’s new nuclear tactical X-50 air-launched cruise missile, although it is not known whether the aircraft in Syria are carrying them.

    https://www.debka.com/russias-topline-su-57-deployed-syria-challenge-us-israeli-air-might/

    Plot thickens. While shortly Netanyahu to be sent to prison. What will he do?

    Start a new war….

    • Replies: @annamaria
  57. David says:
    @AnalogMan

    This is a great comment.

    I find the consensus among the commenters in this thread somewhat inspirational, like a community of reasonable, like-minded people is being formed.

  58. @Tim Timson

    Thanks! Btw, there is someone on the thread who thinks all Mercers are related. Sadly, I am unrelated (through marriage) to the Trump-backing, American, Mercer billionaires. My Mercers are poor, working people from the UK.

    • Replies: @bjondo
    , @Tim Timson
  59. There’s a reason Muslims living in Israel proper—1.5 million of them—don’t migrate to the adjacent Palestinian Authority. They’re better off in Israel.

    I suspect that’s another lie.

    The bigger reason is likely that they aren’t allowed to. They aren’t allowed to because the gangster state needs de facto slaves, it needs a population on which to test all sorts of abominable behavior, and it needs them as a “constant threat.”

    There are likely other and even more cynical reasons that only a Talmudist could dream up.

    It’s easy enough to “google,” “Palestinians not allowed to leave Israel.”

    • Agree: Rurik, Alden
    • Replies: @AaronB
  60. @Kingfelix

    … in an article that contains plenty of outrageous statements.

    Hey, it’s one way to get read. It’s pathetic, but some will do anything to get a few seconds worth of attention. It’s on the level of an infant throwing a temper tantrum, but it must work well enough.

  61. @Ilyana_Rozumova

    I hate when they steel my goats. They’d better not try to brass them, either.

    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
  62. @Tyrion 2

    …because I can, like an idiot, paint myself yellow and squint my eyes.

    Sounds like the voice of experience. you probably do most things as an idiot would do them.

  63. Tyrion 2 says:
    @Talha

    Like I mentioned before, we are under sacred obligation to recognize the rights of Christians and Jews to the city – they are under no similar obligation from their side. If you want to fight for it – don’t waste our time trying to dissect our tradition through your own lens

    I just want to live to see the ’1.6 billion’ Muslims contribute even a tenth as much to the sum of human achievement as a few millions Jews have.

    Islam is the original package, it has come full circle, we are as old as mankind itself.

    Yes, back when your ancestors were flying around in pyramids and other amazing inventions. I’ve heard this type of story before. Since Islam is defined by Mohammed being ‘the messenger’ and Mohammed clearly lived well after the start of History, it is straightforward that Islam is not so old. Otherwise it is just Judaism with a few more exhortations to kill the unbelievers and many fewer instructions to think rationally and get educated.

  64. If not for the influence of Israeli money in US electoral politics, there would be no reason to have a single American soldier or even one US made weapon anywhere in the Middle East. Russian oil is available if the governments of muslim countries decided to cut off oil to US companies.

    For the sake of the well being of US citizens, the Middle East should be left to stew in its own juices by withdrawing all US military from any deployment in the eastern hemisphere. War isn’t necessary to guarantee that oil is sold everywhere it is needed.

    The well being of one shitty little country in the ME should be beneath the notice of the US government.

  65. AaronB says:
    @Tyrion 2

    devoid of all wit, charm

    Compared to judaism??? Lol.

    Judaism has no art or poetry or architecture – Islam excels in all three. Jews are slovenly and rude and unaestnetic. Charm – lol.

    Call Islam violent, backwards, etc – but less charming than judaism? Islam has managed to entice refined and sophisticated Europeans, while only low level white weirdos convert to judaism, unless it’s for money like Ivanka – I know several.

    Can’t we just get our insults straight? Part of Jewish success is because they neglect all charm and beauty in order to pursue money – some people admire this, and there’s a lesson to be learned.

    It’s important to keep our insults straight so we can understand what’s what here.

    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
    , @jacques sheete
  66. druid says:
    @Just me

    I usually don’t read anything but this Islam may not have been there until 1400 years ago but the Palestinians were there in the form of Canaanites and others when murdering Moses and his son came to destroy!

  67. druid says:
    @joe webb

    She is no liberal Jew. She is ex-South African racist Zio. I knew them there – they were all ardent Zionists. For American consumption they call themselves liberal

    • Replies: @joe webb
  68. @Tim Timson

    For nearly 1800 years, from the first century CE, to 1850, hardly a jew lived in Palestine.

    Thomas L Thompson, ‘The mythic past, Biblical archaeology and the myth of Israel’, London 1999

  69. As an Israeli citizen, Israeli lawyer and student of Jewish law, and as someone who has represented Palestinians in the law courts and exposed the lies of the Jewish establishment, I can only say that I am shocked at the publication of this utter drivel on this site. I too am from South Africa – I know about apartheid, and I am fully aware of the hideous apartheid both in Israel proper and naturally in the military occupied unfree Palestinian territories of the West Bank and Gaza.
    It might help if the author would acquaint herself with real Jewish history and the quality of the biblical narrative. She should read Israel Finkelstein et al. on the total disconnect between the bible and history in Canaan and Palestine. The Land of Israel is a literary invention – as are the Children of Israel. There is no historical record nor evidence for King David and King Solomon, and the first temple, whatever that was, cannot be verified on what is now called the Temple Mount.

    But besides all this, the real issue is whether living people, a living community of Palestinian Arabs, has the right to life over people who never existed, and if they did, they are dead more than two thousand years. Whether they have the rights of ius soli – the rights of soil – the right to self-determination where they were born and where they live, over a foreign community, the Jews.
    The entire Zionist ideology is based on an internal contradiction – the Jews who were not born in Palestine are entitled to Palestine aka as the land of their birth because of the bible!

    According to Zionism, Palestine is the birthright of those who were not born here, and whose parents and grandparents and great grandparents were also not born here, going back to an unidentifiable past, but because they call themselves “Jews” – an appellation which originally referred to the territory of Judah and those that lived in it were Judeans.

    Be that as it may, Zionism provided the framework for the physical conquest and consequent genocidal treatment of the local inhabitants of Palestine: 90% were expelled from Palestine with untold numbers killed – a figure unavailable because of Israeli control of the archives as well as the destruction of approximately 500 villages, the remains of which I see all around me.
    Furthermore that destruction and discrimination is an ongoing phenomenon to be found in the inequality and unfairness of budget allocations, town planning and the huge lack of sufficient housing and urban facilities in Arab towns and villages, the lack of educational and professional opportunities, in particular the lack of access to any position tied in with “security”. In addition Palestinian Arabs live within a police state framework government by the GSS – General Security Services or Shabak, which are in control of and are aware of absolutely everything and anything that occurs within the Israeli Palestinian community, despite their being citizens as welll as in the occupied territories of Palestine. This article too will enter their radar.

    In addition to the drivel of history in the article the author lacks a quality the absence of which allowed her to write what she wrote. This is both a commonsensical understanding of morality and an understanding of the basic distinction between good and evil, and if we refer to the bible, she has left out the pivotal commandments: thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not covet, thou shalt not take the name of thy God in vain nor shat thou blaspheme. All these commandments have been brush aside by Zionism as well as by the author!

    Come and see for yourselves!

  70. Tyrion 2 says:
    @AaronB

    Call Islam violent, backwards, etc – but less charming than judaism

    Islam has simplicity. I guess you might confuse it for charm, but it is a violent simplicity and therefore quite different.

    Islam has managed to entice refined and sophisticated Europeans, while only low level white weirdos convert to judaism, unless it’s for money like Ivanka – I know several.

    Is it that the prisons are full of converts to Judaism or is it that the prisons are full of refined and sophisticated Europeans?

    • Replies: @AaronB
  71. AaronB says:
    @jacques sheete

    It’s not just that.

    These Arabs live in ancestral villages they have occupied for centuries, why should they leave? The idea that Israeli Arabs should abandon their ancestral home to live under Ppalestinians, and the only thing preventing them is better material conditions – weird, and materialistic. Really, just propaganda.

    As Shamir has shown, and I have seen, life in the West Bank isn’t much worse. Believe it or not, Israel doesn’t look first world at all, however rich it may be on paper. Aside from squeaky new developements, Israel isn’t really better materially than the West Bank.

    It’s just propaganda. Don’t blame Ilana she’s just human, and this is what humans do. No point whining about Jews – become a little more evil yourself, like your white ancestors were, or flee the human scene or live on its margins.

    But no point complaining that to prosper among humans you can’t be too moral. When whites were great, they were evil. Now Jews are evil, and are on top. To beat them, go back to being evil.

    Or, if you prefer…..

    • Agree: jacques sheete
    • Replies: @jacques sheete
    , @Alden
    , @Truth
  72. Talha says:
    @Tyrion 2

    contribute even a tenth as much to the sum of human achievement as a few millions Jews have

    What is it with you Zionists that you can’t keep on track with the topic? I don’t care if you say we eat poop for breakfast, the issue is about claims to the Holy City of Jerusalem. A city that, within just a few decades of you having partial sovereignty over now has nonsense like this publicly flaunted through its streets:

    Plus, your homeboys thought we was the stuff!!!
    “..but despite the inauspicious beginning, the conquest of Jerusalem by Caliph Omar in 637 was welcomed by some Jews as a release from Christian oppression. In the following Jewish apocalyptic tract composed soon afterward, Esau stands for Rome/Byzantium.Christendom and Ishmael for the Muslims:
    …The angel Metatron at once answered him. ‘Fear not, O son of man! The Holy One, blessed be He, brings the kingdom of Ishmael only to save you from this wicked one (Rome) He will send a prophet to them and conquer the Land [of Israel]…And the second king who arises from Ishmael will love [the people of] Israel and conquer all the kingdoms.’”
    Historical Dictionary of Judaism

    it is straightforward that Islam is not so old.

    No – it’s as old as the first man. Ours is simply religion primordial (unadulterated transcendental monotheism – sans tribal affiliation) revived.

    Since Islam is defined by Mohammed being ‘the messenger’

    Correction, he is the Last Messenger and the Seal of the institution of Prophethood.
    “The Messenger has believed in what was revealed to him from his Lord, and [so have] the believers. All of them have believed in Allah and His angels and His books and His messengers, [saying]; ‘We make no distinction between any of His messengers.’ And they say, ‘We hear and we obey. [We seek] Your forgiveness, our Lord, and to You is the [final] destination.’” (2:285)

    “Muhammad is not the father of any man among you, but he is the Messenger of Allah and the Seal of the Prophets; and Allah is ever Aware of all things.” (33:40)

    Stop trying to tell us what our religion says, you’re really bad at it.

    So again, answer the question (since you obviously don’t care to take our claims seriously); how many people are you willing to lose to have sole control over the city? Of your own people, not Christians that you dupe into fighting for you?

    Or we can be mature, despite theological differences, and see about sharing the space in an equitable manner…your move.

    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
  73. anarchyst says:

    What I would do regarding the U S embassy in Jerusalem:

    Build the embassy on the “green line”. Half of the embassy (on the eastern side) will be the embassy to Palestine. Half the embassy (on the western side) will be the embassy to Israel.
    Problem solved.

    Of course the zionists will wail and gnash their teeth, but so what?

  74. Tyrion 2 says:
    @Talha

    And Talha, before I regret coming off as harsh. Were belief in Islam among the populace not such a great predictor of how dysfunctional a place is, I would be the first to celebrate.

    That is, I want Muslims to pull themselves together. The planet isn’t very big and you guys were having a lot of kids during the 20th Century.

    The issue is that objectively Islam is a curse on every country that has it, contemporaneously. Tragically, those it hurts the most are its adherents. When will this be fixed? How will this be fixed? It is important! Need we really accept that Muslims remain in constant conflict with their neighbours and contribute nothing to global wellbeing? When will you guys make your many countries great again?

    These are some hard facts. They are not personal. They are heartfelt however. Islam is currently making the world a far poorer place and it is in everyone’s interest to change that fact, most of all Muslims!

    So what’s the plan?

    • Replies: @Talha
  75. annamaria says:
    @Dan Herman

    If not the Sarah-pecked Bibi then the former Moldovan citizen Lieberman, a vicious supremacist that looks like a dweller of Bukhara and talks like a neo-Nazi.
    Currently, the Israeli government stands naked – its magic clothes of supreme morality and eternal victimhood are no more. The availability of information on the Internet was a disaster for Jewish “mythologists.” The majority of Jews want to live in countries of western civilization, but their self-gratifying and amoral playing with the toy of Eretz Israel has endangered western civilization and put the bloody Jewish supremacists under a spotlight. Their successful attacks on free speech (see punishments for BDS and for Qs re Holocaust in Europe and the US), and their obnoxious disregard for international law (in the context of a non-stop squealing about special Jewish rights), have created a fertile ground for dislike of the Jewish tribe in general. Nice job. Instead of supporting those countries that gave Jews the real security, the Zionists/ziocons have insulted and irritated these countries’ citizenry with grandiose criminal projects that always feature the victorious Eretz Israel, while bribing and buying politicians in the US Congress and UK Parliament and destroying the honest and principled politicians that do not dance to the Lobby’ tune.

    https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/sara-netanyahu-recorded-losing-temper-i-am-psy-cho-lo-gist-1.5768701

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2018/01/09/netanyahus-son-brags-about-prostitutes-20-billion-deal-for-friends-dad-in-strip-club-rant/?utm_term=.16bd0b26059e

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
    , @Ace
  76. AaronB says:
    @Tyrion 2

    The beautiful mosques, poetry, Arabic calligraphy, the romance of the desert, the Sufis, the Arabian Nights – the Islamic world was full of romance and beauty. Jews have, the ghetto? Fiddler on the roof?

    Sir Richard Burton, Rene Guenon, Rimbaud, Robert Byron, Lawrence of Arabia, Wilfred Thesiger, Freya Stark, Gertrude Bell, Paul Bowls, and countless others, were all captivated by the “charm” of the Muslim world, even if not all converted. Was just reading a biography of author Robert Irwin who converted to Sufism. The “perennial philosophers” we’re fascinated by Islam but had no interest in Judaism. The 60s were fascinated by Sufism.

    The Muslim world exerted a fascination on Western intellectuals, authors, poets, explorers, and writers that has no counterpart with Judaism – only westerners interested in money convert to judaism, like our good Ivanka.

    Judaism deserves to be analyzed for its interesting features – but charm? Wit? Such nonsense only detracts from the truly fascinating aspects of Judaism – one of which, for instance, is its complete neglect of charm and imagination in order to specialize in getting money. It shows the potential strengths of specialization as well as its necessary sacrifices.

    But no need to muddy the waters here – reality is richer and more fascinating.

    • Agree: renfro
    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Tyrion 2
  77. Tyrion 2 says:
    @whatgarbage

    the lack of educational and professional opportunities, in particular the lack of access to any position tied in with “security”.

    American SJWs should read this Israeli SJW and weep! Not only does he match you guys with his narcisstic desire to be ‘above his milleu’ but he actually goes on to argue that there is disparate impact on Arab Muslims getting sensitive jobs combatting Arab terrorism.

    Americans, you can follow this guy. Simply whinge that there’s not enough good jobs for Bloods and Cripps on the South Central LA anti-gang police task force. Oh, the disparate impact of it!

    Muslim Arab Israeli citizens secretly thank God each day that they’re not ruled by their co-ethno-religionists. The smart ones obviously know just quite how lucky they’ve got.

  78. Tyrion 2 says:
    @Talha

    Or we can be mature, despite theological differences, and see about sharing the space in an equitable manner…your move.

    The issue isn’t theological. The issue is extreme Muslim dysfunction.

    Although to contradict myself, I can’t help but assume that part of the cause of the extreme dysfunction of Muslims is indeed theological. I have no better explanation.

    A city that, within just a few decades of you having partial over now has nonsense like this publicly flaunted through its streets:

    Having gays parading around the streets is distasteful. Throwing them off buildings as your lot are wont to do is horrific.

    So again, answer the question

    How long will you guys remain satisfied as being obviously the special ed class of humanity?

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @annamaria
  79. Talha says:
    @Tyrion 2

    Were belief in Islam among the populace not such a great predictor of how dysfunctional a place is

    These kinds of things don’t phase us. We have our dysfunctions, other people have their own:
    “This nation pioneered modern life. Now epic numbers of Americans are killing themselves with opioids to escape it.”

    http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/02/americas-opioid-epidemic.html

    You look at a tribal, rural society like Niger and compare it to France and say – it’s dysfunctional. No it isn’t – it is OK for a tribal, rural society – It certainly is not for a city-dwelling urban one. They are poor, dirt poor, but that does not mean they are dysfunctional.

    The issue is that objectively Islam is a curse on every country that has it, contemporaneously.

    This is hyperbole and completely not objective. Some Muslim lands seem like hell-holes and some are very charming, if not at the material level of success as other nations. You are judging things on the material level and that’s fine, that’s your prerogative – but then you have to recognize that it is a subjective POV. But I’ve known people that have traveled through the Muslim world and have reported happy memories; my daughter’s high school French teacher (a single White lady) loves going to Senegal to immerse herself in a French-speaking culture.

    Atheism and secularism seems to be a bigger curse – societies are imploding from these.

    There is no doubt that we have too many zealots running around causing trouble. We need to get that in check. That comes through education. What does not help is the destabilization of many countries in the Muslim world that were doing alright – Iraq and Libya didn’t just fall apart out of the sky.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
  80. Rurik says:

    Gaza was “returned” to the Palestinians, who promptly destroyed the hothouses Israelis had built there, and planted in the ground Qassam rocket launchers, instead.

    what a vile, lying, duplicitous bitch you are Ilana

    http://mondoweiss.net/2014/08/propaganda-dehumanize-palestinians/

    (used to be) pretty on the outside, ugly as the Bitch of Buchenwald on the inside

    and note, I believe in the self-determination of all people, and that means the Jews too of course.

    But what I can’t abide is the treachery of the Zionists, as they blame the Palestinians for the conditions in Gaza. What kind of low-life scum lies like that?!

    What kind of sick, twisted, perverted slimebag steals people’s land, murders their loved ones, and then blames the victim for it all?

    If the Zionists had spent a fraction of the money they use slaughtering and menacing and stealing and corrupting and bombing and murdering….

    and used those funds to purchase the land and homes in voluntary transactions, I wonder if they wouldn’t own Jerusalem fee simple by now.

    But that’s not their way, is it? When you can assassinate and then lie about it.

    And most importantly, have people to torment, and humiliate, and torture and imprison and shoot at and generally try to strip away their dignity, because that is what you OT Jewish supremacists are all about, isn’t it?

    living out your psychotic delusions of megalomaniacal awesomeness!

    your masturbatory narrative of your tribe as ‘chosen’, and the only people who actually matter! And soooo, so much better than all the rest!!!

    From the Bitch of Buchenwald to the Bitch of Jerusalem (too bad it doesn’t have the catchy literation ; )

    • Replies: @mcohen
    , @snag
    , @jacques sheete
  81. moi says:

    For a moment there I thought the author of the article was Ivanka Trump.

    • LOL: Talha
  82. Yes, the Palestinians deserve a homeland. But they should not get half of Jerusalem until the Jews get half of Mecca.

    • LOL: iffen
  83. joe webb says:
    @druid

    a week or two ago the jewyorktimes ran a piece by a S. African jew on S. Africa. He accounted for the failures and corruption of Zuma… because of “the gaze of the White man.”

    Black Magic in Africa is ju-ju. White magic, like the ‘gaze of the white man’ corrupts the Negro.

    That is a good argument for re-segregatiang the schools. Get the White Gaze out of the schools, etc.

    As for zionists …being liberal is still possible, isn’t it?. diversity means lots of pluralism, intellectually speaking. Of course no free speech for racists. that would be carrying diversity too far.

  84. Old Jew says:
    @renfro

    Correct!

    I have not read Thomas Thompson, but whatever history I read, provides the same timeline.

    Nevertheless I love my Bible.

  85. neutral says:
    @Tyrion 2

    I just want to live to see the ’1.6 billion’ Muslims contribute even a tenth as much to the sum of human achievement as a few millions Jews have.

    It’s not achievements, it’s the endless misery that jews have blighted this with world that jews win the top spot for, nobody gets close to the jews when it comes to amount of death, suffering and despair they have inflicted, and this is with their much smaller numbers compared to Muslims.

    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
  86. dearieme says:
    @Twodees Partain

    “the name of the city that was sacred to Jews for nearly two thousand years before Muhammad”: over-egging the pudding. There weren’t any Jews two thousand years before Muhammad in any recognisable sense. The Torah didn’t exist, there were no monotheists living thereabouts as far as archaeologists can tell, and Jerusalem at the time David purportedly existed was an unfortified village i.e. it wasn’t a city and it didn’t have a defensive wall.

    Were you never taught that exaggeration weakens a case?

    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
  87. @Twodees Partain

    Thank you. I do hope that you do not underestimated me, because you are one of the smartest on this site.

    So this is not really address to you but to some readers on this site.
    I do love to write short funny comments
    But there is always something hidden behind the funny part.

    Napoleon said: army marches on its stomach. And protein is important part of the diet.
    Once the army conquers a certain people they rob the richer people of their gold and money.
    But what they can get from poor plebs? They impose on them payment of tribute on them.
    How can poor people to pay tribute? Only by what they have got. Some domestic animals, nothing else!

    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
  88. Truth says:

    Muslims residing in East Jerusalem must just learn to extend to their Jewish neighbors the courtesy their Muslim brethren receive from their Jewish neighbors, in Israel proper.

    Hey Ron. Keep em’ coming, your going to get me fired for laughing too hard, but I’m addicted.

    • LOL: Talha
  89. Talha says:
    @AaronB

    Let’s not forget Thoreau and Emerson (I love his poetry) who were also appreciative of the Persian mystics and their poetry.

    Also, Goethe wrote a poem in praise of the Prophet (pbuh):

    Come ye all, then!
    Now, more proudly,
    On he swells; a countless race, they
    Bear their glorious prince aloft!
    On he rolls triumphantly, 55
    Giving names to countries. Cities
    Spring to being ’neath his foot.

    Onward, with incessant roaring,
    See! he passes proudly by
    Flaming turrets, marble mansions, 60
    Creatures of his fulness all.

    Cedar houses bears this Atlas
    On his giant shoulders. Rustling,
    Flapping in the playful breezes,
    Thousand flags about his head are 65
    Telling of his majesty.

    And so bears he all his brothers,
    And his treasures, and his children,
    To their Sire, all joyous roaring,
    Pressing to his mighty heart.

    http://www.bartleby.com/270/11/203.html

    Peace.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  90. @AaronB

    But no point complaining that to prosper among humans you can’t be too moral. When whites were great, they were evil. Now Jews are evil, and are on top. To beat them, go back to being evil.

    I’m not complaining, I’m mostly mocking in the style of the real whiners, whom you correctly describe as currently being “on top” and therefore most evil. (Isn’t it funny how the “chosen” are always whining about being the eternal victims and bawling about deserving special treatment?)

    You are so correct when you say that you must resort to evil to be on top, and it doesn’t matter who’s on top. Evil obviously gets them a boost, and that’s why I loathe all who think they deserve to be on top or at least those who think they are entitled to rule over me.

    Goy, jew, it doesn’t matter to me; all “authorities” can go suck eggs or worse. Meanwhile, the whiners like Mercer and her ignorant ilk have earned my contempt, and Like Mennipus, I’ll be laughing and jeering at them and calling them out.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  91. @Tyrion 2

    I just want to live to see the ’1.6 billion’ Muslims contribute even a tenth as much to the sum of human achievement as a few millions Jews have.

    That old canard again?

    Get over it already. Most of us goyim would be a helluva lot better off without your stinking “achievements.” Only a total knucklehead could believe any so called benefits have come without a heavy price.

    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
  92. mcohen says:
    @whatgarbage

    Well well.when i reached this part of your post i knew the hand of G-d was at work

    “thou shalt not take the name of thy God in vain nor shat thou blaspheme.”

    Amen to that brother.Let the typo rule. 

  93. Sean says:

    The status of the West Bank Arabs cannot remain as it is forever. And unless Israel withdraws from the West Bank and protecting the settlements, there is no possibility of getting a Palestinian state (in addition to the already existing one on the other bank). Someone must go, and it does not look as if it will be the settlers.

  94. Old Jew says:
    @jilles dykstra

    Correct!

    I have not read Thomas Thompson, but whatever history I read, provide the same timeline.

    Nevertheless I love my Bible.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  95. @whatgarbage

    Your comment is a breath of fresh air, in marked contrast to the sewage spewed by the author you correctly describe a ignorant. Actually, ignorant would be a compliment.

    Here articles are uniformly ridiculous.

  96. nickels says:

    Shephardics are also basically just Europeans:

    https://ethnicgenome.wordpress.com/2009/03/04/the-race-of-sephardic-jews/

    So tradition and DNA of Jews have no connection to the Ancient Israel.
    (Well, maybe except in the opposite sense that the Talmud inverts the written Torah).

  97. @annamaria

    …have created a fertile ground for dislike of the Jewish tribe in general. Nice job. Instead of supporting those countries that gave Jews the real security, the Zionists/ziocons have insulted and irritated these countries’ citizenry with grandiose criminal projects…

    Amen to that and all the rest.

    The simple fact is that Zionism was a reaction of jealous twerps who couldn’t stand that some Jews were successful in Western societies and were assimilated just nicely, thank you.

    The Zionists were and are largely a fringe crackpot and violent group and moral Jews knew it and spoke out against it but in the end the nut jobs “won” with the results you describe.

    The former terrorist turned peace advocate, Uri Avnery, writes about that a lot.

    THE FOUNDER of political Zionism, Theodor Herzl, believed that after the creation of the “Jewish State” (not necessarily in Palestine), all the Jews in the world would go and settle there. Those who did not, would just assimilate in the countries where they lived and cease being Jews.

    This was a simple idea, because Herzl was a naïve person, who knew very little about the Jews. Because of that, he did not conceive a future difference between the Jews in the Jewish State and all the others, who would stay where they were or emigrate to other countries, like the USA.

    -Uri Avnery, Olympic Jews?

    http://zope.gush-shalom.org/home/en/channels/avnery/1471611894/

    There is no doubt in my mind that a similar charge could accurately be leveled at the author of the garbage article, above, except that “naive” and “ignorant” would be much too generous.

  98. mcohen says:
    @Rurik

    “What kind of sick, twisted, perverted slimebag steals people’s land, murders their loved ones, and then blames the victim for it all?”

    Whats this……custers last stand.or sitting bulls turd

    • Replies: @Rurik
  99. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Talha

    … heads of the Christian Churches in the area already stated clearly that Jerusalem should retain international status:

    The heads of local churches will say whatever their violent Muslim neighbors tell them to say.

    They have thoroughly absorbed the lesson that you don’t speak up against violent, supremacist Muslims.

    BTW Al-Quds is not really the “name” of Jerusalem in Arabic, but more like a moniker meaning “the Holy One.”

    Israel should encourage Arabs to use the same moniker for Mecca and Medina.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Dan Herman
  100. Old Jew says:
    @jilles dykstra

    Dear Mr. Jilles Dykstra,

    I read your post above, and decided to confirm with Wikipedia:

    It said: “… Another incident happened in Petah Tikva, where in early 1886 the Jewish settlers demanded that their tenants vacate the disputed land and started encroaching on it. On March 28, a Jewish settler crossing this land was attacked and robbed of his horse by Yahudiya Arabs, while the settlers confiscated nine mules found grazing in their fields, though it is not clear which incident came first and which was the retaliation. The Jewish settlers refused to return the mules, a decision viewed as a provocation. The following day, when most of the settlement’s men folk were away, fifty or sixty Arab villagers attacked Petach Tikva, vandalizing houses and fields and carrying off much of the livestock. Four Jews were injured and a fifth, an elderly woman with a heart condition, died four days later.[9] …”

    Thus what you call Palestinian Landowners were Arab Tenant Farmers, on land owned legally (bought from the Ottomans) by the Jews. [No Palestinians before 1964 Arafat, and no Zionists before 1897 Basel].

    I grew up with the communist slogan:

    “The land belongs to those who work it with their hands.”

    Thus I can understand your noble impulse to rename Arab Tenant Farmers to Palestinian Landowners.

    Cheers,
    sf

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  101. Art says:

    Jews Must Never Forget Trump for Remembering Our Unforgettable Jerusalem

    We Americans must never forget that Adelson’s foreign gambling money stole Jerusalem away from the Palestinians. Nothing high minded happened, just dirty filthy politics.

    Clearly the Jews bought their way into defeating our political process – their money stole our democracy away from us. In the process, they filched America’s good name.

    To the shame of us all – the upshot of this is that our president took a land from one peoples and gave it to another. We all know that is the outcome.

    In order to see this finalized, the good Jew Mercer is cleaning up a few details by putting a guilt trip on the 7,000,000,000 people of our planet.

    Think Peace – Art

    p.s. Adelson in China. Wherever there is some dirty business, you will find a willing Jew pushing others aside.

    • Replies: @Sam J.
  102. Talha says:
    @Tyrion 2

    The issue is extreme Muslim dysfunction.

    Again, you place this term out there which is your opinion; why should I simply agree with this? Based on what – your say so?

    I mean, in the West, 90% or more people have multiple sexual partners before marriage. From our perspective, that is an extreme dysfunction. I’ve seen how my co-workers’ kids talk to them or how they talk about their own parents to strangers – where is the respect? That is another major dysfunction. See- you don’t find these to be important so you pooh pooh these things. I will guarantee you – there is no society that will last that does not honor their parents – it will be apparent in due time.

    Muslims were at the top of the world materially for a while, the Abbasid Caliphate being so advanced and rich that Europeans had nothing of value to trade except for European slaves (if you think I am joking you should read some serious history – actually you can just consult your folks since Jews were often the middlemen, so they should have the receipts). Been there, done that – now it’s someone else’s turn, why should we be jealous? I certainly am not.

    dysfunction of Muslims is indeed theological

    There are dysfunctions in Muslim societies and dysfunctions in other societies. Go to South America or parts of East Asia, plenty of dysfunction per European standards there. How is that explained theologically?

    Sure Muslims are going through some sanguinary times, but go back a few decades to 1930′/40′s Europe – why was the continent so dysfunctional, to the extreme? I mean they were burning each others’ kids alive without abandon on an industrial scale. Was that theological?

    Furthermore, if I recall – before your and our idiot ethno-nationalists showed up, you guys were living in the hundreds of thousands across the Muslim world in Turkey, Algeria, Morocco, Egypt, etc. If we were so dysfunctional, why weren’t they in Europe…oh…wait…

    Throwing them off buildings as your lot are wont to do is horrific.

    Sure, but that’s what extremists do – I mean, they have a rep to keep, right? They can’t very well have them go through a court process with witnesses and evidence and then apply a reasonable ta’zir right? What would their friends say; ISIS, you cucks!

    How long will you guys remain satisfied as being obviously the special ed class of humanity?

    I don’t know; how long will you remain thinking that you are the special class of humanity?

    Have you read Tortoise and the Hare? I suggest a refresher:

    http://read.gov/aesop/025.html

    • Agree: jacques sheete
    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
    , @Sam J.
  103. Geordie says: • Website

    What a ridiculous distortion of reality. Tell enough lies and some of it will be believed seems to be the m.o. of the author of this piece, Surely no UNZ readers will agree with any of this fairy story, will they? How many United nations resolutions are these shameless liars and twisters of the truth ignoring already?

    • Replies: @Truth
  104. Talha says:
    @Anonymous

    The heads of local churches will say whatever their violent Muslim neighbors tell them to say.

    A little birdie told you this? Provide evidence. If your contention is, if it wasn’t for these darned Muslims, the local Christians would love us; then this is a laughable claim. Ted Cruz was booed off stage by Arab Christians in America for his nonsense talk:

    Al-Quds, Bayt al-Maqdis, Majid al-Aqsa are all terms that refer variously to the city, area or specifically the temple mount compound. We’ll call it whatever we like, what does it matter to you guys? You guys can call it Jewrusalem for all we care. This is about details, this is about being able to reasonably share a space that we all find sacred and without bloodshed. The constant downplaying of the legitimacy of the Muslim claim shows us that your side is insincere and does not mean business – which is fine, we can do it the hard way if you want.

    Makkah used to be Bakkah and Madinah (which literally means “The City”) used to be known as Yathrib. We arleady have honorific names for them; Makkah al-Mukarramah (Makkah the Enobled) and Madina tul-Munawwara (Madinah the Resplendent).

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Talha
    , @Truth
  105. annamaria says:
    @Tyrion 2

    “Having gays parading around the streets is distasteful. Throwing them off buildings as your lot are wont to do is horrific.”
    – Sure. Iran is very-very bad, but when Israel has been killing children in Gaza Ghetto – oh, that’s Ok because Israelis are the giants of morality from you point of view.
    Don’t you like the Jewish Museum of Tolerance built, notwithstanding the vigorous protests of decent people, on the ancient Palestinian cemetery? How about the massive theft of Palestinian land? The Israel’s support for Daesh/ISIS because the Golan Heights?
    Considering the Kagans’ clan well-documented warmongering — and even an active and profitable collaboration of its member with the neo-Nazi in Ukraine — Jews should be rather more careful when judging other people.

    https://dninews.com/article/israel-notes-growth-anti-semitism-ukraine

    https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-more-anti-semitic-than-russia/25384493.html

    https://charlenecleoeiben54123.wordpress.com/2014/03/15/washington-fuels-rise-of-neo-nazism-and-anti-semitism-in-ukraine-the-role-of-john-mccain/

    Instead of hunting the senescent former Nazi guards, better take a look at the current supporters and collaborators with neo-Nazi both in Canada and the US. You cannot screech about Holocaust and, at the same time, see no evil in Nuland-Kagan’s endeavors in Kiev, as well as in Ledeen’s involvement in yellow cake forgery and Wolfowitz’, Kristol’, Krauthummer’ and such fanatical support for the supreme crimes of the wars of aggression in the Middle East. And don’t forget your own kapos.

    • Agree: Alden
    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
    , @Sam J.
  106. snag says:

    “They’re better off in Israel” — Anywhere would be better than in that Swiss cheese rat hole where the zionist cowards in uniforms threat them worse than animals ,…

    • Replies: @snag
  107. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Talha

    You state:

    Al-Quds ["the Holy One"], … refer[s] to the city [of Jerusalem]

    Makkah used to be Bakkah and Madinah (which literally means “The City”) used to be known as Yathrib. We already have honorific names for them; Makkah al-Mukarramah (Makkah the Enobled) and Madina tul-Munawwara (Madinah the Resplendent).

    Precisely my point – Arabs have no NAME for Jerusalem, and instead only use only the by-name “the Holy One.” By contrast, as you state, Mecca has and Medina had an actual name ( to which an honorific by-name was added.

    Think of U.S. newspapers referring to “the Sunshine State.” “The Sunshine State” is not a name, but a by-name, essentially a nickname. The name is Florida. Jerusalem has no actual name in Arabic.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @snag
    , @Tyrion 2
    , @Alden
  108. Talha says:
    @Talha

    Meant to say…“this isn’t about details”

  109. Oh no says:

    Oh no, another of those crazed, half-demented religion-nuts arguing that God gave me this and that God meant me to have that.

    Try proving your title to real estate in a court of law arguing from this or that scripture. Try proving your genetic lineage from the ancient peoples you claim are the rightful owners.

    The whole problem has its roots in the mass emigration of Europeans to Palestine and the subsequent forcible eviction of those who had been living there since generations. The religion of both the displacers and the displaced is irrelevant. This whole matter should be examined without using any religious label. Europe washed its hands and its conscience clean by handing over someone else’s home to those who had been its prior victims, creating another group of victims in the process.

    A pragmatic and reasonable solution based on universal human equality and equal rights for all who live there has, alas, been prevented by religious nuts and political extremists. A pox on all of them, no matter what religious or tribal labelling and arguments they employ. If there is a God, He must be wincing as He hears greedy nonsense being invoked in his name to claim title to his land.

    • Replies: @snag
  110. Truth says:
    @Geordie

    Surely no UNZ readers will agree with any of this fairy story, will they?

    LMAO! Dude, you’d be surprised. There were about 50 people on another thread that said they thought that black people thought Wakanda was real.

  111. The land-thieves never stop, do they?

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  112. Talha says:
    @Anonymous

    Jerusalem has no actual name in Arabic.

    OK – yeah, it wasn’t originally founded by Arabs. Why would it have an original Arabic name?

    The transliterated name that is sometimes used is:
    أورشليم (Oorushaleem)

    So if we call it by a nickname – as you say – it makes a difference exactly how?

  113. snag says:
    @Anonymous

    Where did the Hebrews got that name from not from the Mesopotamian tablets by any chance? That City was known as Urusalima or Urusalim 4000 years BC – Until they find some reliable proof that David ever existed the City of David name is a fairy tale and their so called right to Jerusalem its nothing but an usurpation .

  114. @Bill Jones

    The land-thieves never stop, do they?

    No.

    And they never stop rationalizing the theft, brutality and outright sadism, either.

    Sickos, the lot of ‘em.

  115. @dearieme

    I was quoting the article. If you had read the article before jumping into the comments, you would know that.

    • Replies: @dearieme
  116. @Ilyana_Rozumova

    Thank you, ma’am. I like to poke fun whenever possible and I’m glad you didn’t take offense.

    That’s exactly right about tribute. I view paying taxes to the federal government as being forced to pay tribute, and tribute is extortion.

    • Agree: jacques sheete
  117. @Tyrion 2

    Yeah, well… muslims are trying to equal jews, but they will have to kill an awful lot more people to even be in the same league.

    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
  118. dearieme says:
    @Twodees Partain

    God God, the article quickly proved itself unreadable.

    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
  119. Tyrion 2 says:
    @Talha

    As a normative kind of person I am sympathetic to your viewpoint. There’s still a stark lack of achievement though. I wish it were not so but I’d love to see Muslims address it, and rectify it, because it is extreme.

    • Replies: @Talha
  120. Tyrion 2 says:
    @AaronB

    So a fifth of the world’s population has achieved only that…

    • Replies: @AaronB
  121. Tyrion 2 says:
    @neutral

    Boring! Jews ain’t to blame for all your ills. Yours is a pathetic position to take.

    • Replies: @Truth
  122. Tyrion 2 says:
    @jacques sheete

    The first step in addressing the dearth of Muslim achievement is recognising it. Were you committed more to the well-being of your culture than your two dimensional self-esteeem, you would happily recognise this.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  123. First, I want to acknowledge a shift in the content of your commentaries. In my view they include a sincere attempt to address the subtleties of varying viewpoints.

    Laudable to say the least. I have to view your position not from the value of sacredness, first, but rather from the stated goal of President Trump. That stated goal was that this was a first step toward peace between Palestine and Israel. I thought it a bold and extraordinary claim considering the disputed issues concerning the religious origins and value of the Temple Mount, muchless Jerusalem itself.

    Your comments don’t address what would be central to US polity. If in fact the US is going to support Israel’s every move, then peace as a primary objective is not a bad choice, even if announcing the capital is a strange way to begin a peace process. I am unclear what it is you are pressing a sacred solution or one that is political. I remain unconvinced that claims of the sacred validates property rights. I noticed you avoided first setting the date for when Israel was established, and the method by which status of nationhood occurred. I have repeatedly attempted to locate a political or legal body that acknowledge your state of Israel, by which to claim Jerusalem is its capital., and none exists.

    God does not operate outside the realities he created for human beings, that includes the issues of established sovereign territories and their understood boundaries. So if in fact it’s the sacred path to statehood you desire to press, then you need to indicate when God so established the statehood, since he last had the people of Israel scattered to the winds. Curious of the supernatural transcends and seals the matter.

    I think Israel has a right to exist as nation, but then that is predicated on some very distinct political events – even if sacred. The sacred gave Israel the boot. I am curious when you think the sacred invited Israel as a state back in.

  124. snag says:
    @Rurik

    Those hasbara crap peddlers are everywhere 24/7 /365 .

  125. Tyrion 2 says:
    @Talha

    Again, you place this term out there which is your opinion; why should I simply agree with this? Based on what – your say so?

    Where’s the high Muslim achievement?

    Furthermore, if I recall – before your and our idiot ethno-nationalists showed up, you guys were living in the hundreds of thousands across the Muslim world in Turkey, Algeria, Morocco, Egypt, etc. If we were so dysfunctional, why weren’t they in Europe…oh…wait

    Jews lived in all of those lands before Islam existed.

    Sure, but that’s what extremists do – I mean, they have a rep to keep, right? They can’t very well have them go through a court process with witnesses and evidence and then apply a reasonable ta’zir right? What would their friends say; ISIS, you cucks!

    It is disingenous to argue that Islamic extremism has nothing to do with Islam.

    I don’t know; how long will you remain thinking that you are the special class of humanity?

    Wouldn’t it be nice if Muslims contributed as much to human advancement as other groups? Or at least, not orders of magnitude less?

    Muslims were at the top of the world materially for a while, the Abbasid Caliphate being so advanced and rich

    Interesting that you have to go a thousand years ago. Also interesting that your statement begs the question of what advances were those Muslim Abbasids responsible for?

    Have you read Tortoise and the Hare?

    That story took place over a day. This has taken place over a thousand years, and the finish line has been crossed by countless generations.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Talha
    , @Alden
  126. Tyrion 2 says:
    @annamaria

    No idea who you are babbling to. Better get back on your delusional hobby horse and ride off to talk to someone who is interested.

    • Replies: @annamaria
  127. snag says:
    @renfro

    Great post! ,…

    Another eye-opening book on this subject by te same author: The Mythic Past: Biblical Archaeology And The Myth Of Israel by Thomas L. Thompson.

    https://www.amazon.com/Mythic-Past-Biblical-Archaeology-Israel/dp/0465006493

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
    , @Alden
  128. Tyrion 2 says:
    @Anonymous

    I don’t see why Arabs can’t swallow their pride and see the tremendous achievements that Israel has made and learn from it. The Japanese did it when Europeans first arrived and that later kicked off the Meiji Restoration.

    Sure there is plenty that is bad about Israel, as there is about any country, but you’d think that some people in the region might just one day think “hey, we could do better.”

    But no, it seems beyond your co-religionists’ ken.

    • Replies: @Alden
  129. Talha says:
    @Tyrion 2

    Again, here we are talking about perspectives. If you are saying we don’t have much material achievement, then – as I said – we had that side of our civilization and maybe it will come again, who knows. That has never been the purpose of Islam, it never came to make a society materially prosperous as its goal. In fact it should put a damper on the level of material opulence a society attains or even desires. And for good reason; the whole purpose is to pass through this life with a clean soul one that is ultimately unattached to the material, mundane existence. Why people judge a religion that states the following by material terms is beyond me:
    “Know that the life of this world is but amusement and diversion and adornment and boasting to one another and competition in increase of wealth and children – like the example of a rain whose [resulting] plant growth pleases the tillers; then it dries and you see it turned yellow; then it becomes [scattered] debris. And in the Hereafter is severe punishment or forgiveness from Allah and approval. And what is the worldly life except the enjoyment of delusion?” (57:20)

    The Early Muslims were fairly poor desert dwellers, so unsophisticated that they had to hire other people to build mosques like the ones you see in the earliest part of Damascus. They were unimpressed by the material opulence of the Byzantines and Persians. One does not barter one’s soul for the paltry life of this world, it’s a bad bargain. This doesn’t mean we strive to live like paupers only that it’s all in the attitude; what do you prioritize as your purpose?

    Our civilizational achievement isn’t really in the great mosques, artwork, etc. that’s just a side-effect (though the works of poetry and aphorisms are truly something) – it’s that we still have men like these walking around…

    https://www.amazon.com/Signs-Horizons-Meetings-Knowledge-Illumination/dp/0989364011

    …and that despite our differences, we are still more united in our hearts than other people (and this is clear because, even the ones who despise us, lump us all together, no matter which background we come from or what age – and we wouldn’t have it any other way).

    People who understand this and feel that same urge to transcend end up joining us (or other spiritual paths), others are free to prioritize their purpose in life as they please.

  130. @Tyrion 2

    The first step in addressing the dearth of Muslim achievement…

    You state that as if you know something about it. I doubt that you do.

    The first step for you is to recognize that “achievement” means different things to different people, and what the Zio-crowd has achieved is nothing to strut about nor do any so called Zio achievements exonerate anyone from the mal-achievements imposed on the rest of us.

    You seem to have a bizarre way of self justification. As I noted previously, you can take your so called “achievements” and stick ‘em where de sun don’t shine.

    Very few are impressed with your “achievements” so go ahead and wallow in self pride while you still can, and remember, there are plenty of people who’re tired of hearing the “chosen” “eternal victims” whine.

    According to your “Torah” G-d hisownself could hardly stand your type and was repeatedly smiting you. I can see why. I think it’s about time he or it or whatever serves ya’ll another whoopin, not that it’ll do much good.

  131. Tyrion 2 says:
    @Twodees Partain

    It doesn’t seem that Muslims have any problem with killing people. They kill more each year in a nunber of their countries than have been killed in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict since it started.

  132. Rurik says:
    @mcohen

    “What kind of sick, twisted, perverted slimebag steals people’s land, murders their loved ones, and then blames the victim for it all?”

    Whats this……custers last stand

    I’m glad you mentioned the Amerindians vis-a-vis the genocide going on in Palestine today

    there are a few things worthy of note by way of contrasting those two events..

    First and foremost is that in the pre-WWII world, it was for the strong to encroach on the weak.

    The ‘Indians’ did it to each other with gusto, and it was the unwritten law of the world, that when a people were confronted by military superiority, they succumbed.

    The Aztecs and Apaches did it to their neighbors, and had it done to them in turn.

    But then at Nuremburg, the world created a new covenant. They repudiated the metric that ‘might = right’, and created a new world order for us all, and we all had our young souls as children, mortified by the ‘horrors of the Holocaust’, as we were all carefully indoctrinated into believing that genocide and Nazis and ethnic cleansing were the worst evils that have ever besieged the planet.

    That is the first thing to keep in mind.

    The second thing is that as the Europeans were ethnically cleansing and genociding the ‘Indians’, there was much handwringing over their tragic fate. Many tried to educate them and make civilized men and women out of them, so that they could assimilate into the culture.

    Sometimes it worked, and often it didn’t, but the point is that they were treated as victims of the white newcomers, not as evil people for having the temerity to exist.

    It would be impossible to even imagine a white statesman or philosopher to say the existence of the Indians was an affront to God’s will, and blame them for living. Such arrogance would have been inconceivable. They may have invoked God’s will for ‘manifest destiny’, and the eventual replacement of the Indians, but they would hardly blame the Indians for being here first.

    For that kind of sinister wickedness, we have to look to the Zionists, who blame the Palestinians for living on “their” land.

    So there are two very important differences. One is that the post WWII Jews demanded after the war was over, (and the Germans were the ones being systematically genocided and raped and enslaved, etc..) that the Nazis were the most evil of all evil people who had ever lived! Because they wanted to ethnically cleanse the Jews out of their lands, and often persecuted the Jews who resisted or fought against the Nazis.

    So..

    If it’s wrong, wrong. wrong.. (the most evil thing that anyone can do) to ethnically cleanse others out of your lands..

    as this has been the mantra that Jews have barraged us with for generations…

    then by what fucked up right do they have to ethnically cleanse other people out of those other people’s lands?!

    You see? If what the Nazis did was the ultimate evil, then how the fuck are we all supposed to sit by while the screeching Jews, howling at us all for not doing enough to protect them.. murder and steal and genocide others?

    It’s like Eli Weasel scourging us all as anti-Semites for allowing the Holocaust to happen on one hand, as he’s engaging in the genocidal Nakba with the other hand.

    The hypocrisy is staggering and an affront to simple human intelligence and decency.

    and then to add to that, these genocidal hypocrites actually have the pus nads to blame the victims of their genocidal hatred and wrath.

    I’m sure Gen. Custer killed a lot of Indians, (murder or genocide if that’s what you want to call it) but I doubt very seriously that he brow beat them for fighting back, or that he stood on their corpses and blamed them for living on reservations and all the attendant humiliations and depravations.

    How someone could look at the Indians, having suffered so much, and languishing on the reservations, and then demand ‘look at how wrenched they are! Look at what they’ve done to themselves!

    for that kind of sickening ‘blaming of the victims’, we have to look at the singularly loathsome Zionists

    • Replies: @mcohen
  133. @renfro

    Bravo! Great comment!

    Love the opening sentence!

  134. Talha says:
    @Tyrion 2

    Where’s the high Muslim achievement?

    Define high achievement.

    Jews lived in all of those lands before Islam existed.

    This is true and not true. They did, but not in those numbers. So you completely want to ignore the fact that thousands of Jews moved into Muslim lands and did fairly well there? There were no Jews that were taken into Abbasid or Mamluk or Ottoman territory after being expelled from other lands? Really?

    It is disingenous to argue that Islamic extremism has nothing to do with Islam.

    Of course it has to do with Islam – we have extremists. What, you don’t have Jewish extremists? Really?

    human advancement

    Define advancement.

    Also interesting that your statement begs the question of what advances were those Muslim Abbasids responsible for?

    So you are completely unfamiliar with men like Khwarezmi, Biruni, Ibn al-Haytham, Ibn Rushd, etc.?We’re cool with that. What’s interesting is that under the mural of Civilizations at the Library of Congress; Islam is listed as the civilization that contributed “Physics”:
    Oh, and…
    “Herman, the first Rabin-Shvidler Joint Post-Doctoral Fellow in Jewish Studies, delivered his talk, “Legal Theory and Revelation: Jewish Law in an Islamic Milieu,” at the Lincoln Center campus…
    He explored the competing philosophies of two of the most influential Jewish jurists and philosophers of the Middle Ages, Seʿadya ben Joseph Gaon and Moses Maimonides…Both, however, would have been heavily influenced by Muhammad ibn Idrīs al-Shāfiʿī, a Palestinian-Arab Muslim theologian, writer, and scholar, who lived from 767 to 820 A.D. Shāfiʿī insisted that only revealed text, such as the Koran or certain oral traditions, constituted acceptable legal sources.
    ‘By putting Seʿadya and Maimonides in dialogue with Islamic legal thought, we can better understand their theories on their own terms, why their assertions were compelling to them and their immediate readers, and why later readers often struggled with their ideas,’ Herman said.”

    https://news.fordham.edu/politics-and-society/scholar-details-jewish-jurisprudence-influenced-islam/

    I’m not even posting anything about how Hebrew was influenced by Arabic, you can do your own research on that one.

    Do you know how many constellations and stars still have Arabic names?

    This has taken place over a thousand years, and the finish line has been crossed by countless generations.

    Oh, so you are unfamiliar with it.

    • Replies: @annamaria
    , @Alden
    , @Tyrion 2
  135. Alden says:

    Yes, allegedly the Jews did conquer the land of Canaan and Jerusalem cerca 1,000 BC.

    But it was conquered by the Assyrians about 225 years later and not reconquered by Jews until 1948.

    A reign of 225 years over the course of 2,948 years is ridiculous.

    And who’s to say David and the conquest of Canaan actually happened? The Hebrew bible began inthe 500s BC in Babylon. It was nothing but a collection of myths then as now.

  136. @snag

    And another is Israeli historian Shlomo Sand’s ” The Invention of the Jewish People.”

    https://www.amazon.com/Invention-Jewish-People-Shlomo-Sand/dp/1844676234

  137. @Rurik

    If the Zionists had spent a fraction of the money they use slaughtering and menacing and stealing and corrupting and bombing and murdering….

    Bbbbb…but dem Muslimz ain’t “accomplished“!!!! And besides, we’re chosen by a Gawd we don’t even believe in!!!

    How kewl izzat?

  138. Alden says:
    @snag

    Isn’t Jacob’s grave actually a medieval septic tank? There’s a magazine Biblical archeology that claims every rock in Palestine is proof of the OT. It’s put out by evangelicals.

    I enjoy the magazine but it’s just a crock.

    • Replies: @snag
  139. Alden says:
    @Tyrion 2

    Christian Lebanon was the Switzerland of the Middle East for centuries till the Jews chased the Palestinian refugees into Lebanon and then invaded Lebanon and almost destroyed it.

    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
  140. Talha says:
    @Tyrion 2

    A question though? What does this have to do with the sharing of Jerusalem? Are we supposed to present the Israelis with some certificate of how many “achievements” or “goal posts” we have reached before we qualify? I’m sorry, I have a difficult time in coming to terms with a proposition that our Ummah has to justify ourselves to yours – yours is a rounding error when compared to us. Why do we need your approval?

    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
  141. snag says:
    @renfro

    In many cases the occupied tribes or nations embraced the occupation like the Hebrews under Seleucid rule that traded with them with mutual benefits, mingled and intermarried making babies and converting to Hellenism or ‘sprinkle’ their Judaism with Hellenism, creating Hellenistic Judaism that combined Jewish religious tradition with elements of Greek culture. Under Seleucid rule it got to the point that Maccabees had to implement forced circumcision in overrun territories to reclaim their ‘jews’ that deserted to Hellenism. Needles to mention the Greeks created market for their products in Mediterranean Basin making them much better off financially and unhampered personally than under Judaism. The invaders/occupants weren’t stupid the knew that native farmer knows the climate and conditions, what to plant and what grows, the fisherman knows where and what to fish for, the craftsmen knows what’s needed by the local market, there’s no time and no need to learn on the job. Someone have to support invaders.

    In ‘The Mythic Past: Biblical Archaeology And The Myth Of Israel’ Thompson insists that former Hebrews are the Palestinians today they converted to Islam to avoid taxes to feed their kids some to Christianity during Crusades conquest. Those faded faces you see there today are a squatters and sooner or later are going to leave.

    • Replies: @Alden
  142. Alden says:
    @Anonymous

    The Assyrian, Babylonian, Greek, Roman and Byzantine rulers all kept the name Jerusalem. When the Arab Muslims conquered the area, they kept the name.

    It’s no different from the numerous American cities and towns than kept the American Indian names.

  143. AaronB says:
    @Tyrion 2

    I was just pointing out that Jews dont excel Muslims in the charm or culture department.

    Jewish culture has no appeal to to cultured Europeans, while Islam has lots.

    In other ways, Jewish accomplishment is impressive, like with money, and Jewish culture has managed to attract whites who are passionate about money rather than culture.

    Value judgements are subjective. I was just trying to get the facts straight.

    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
  144. Alden says:

    I read all the early Zionist literature and of course exodus.

    A major theme in all of it going back to 1870 was save our little brown Arab fellow Semite brothers from the eeevvvvviiiillllll Turks.

    After 1922 it was all save our little brown brother fellow Arab semites from the eeeevvvvviiiiilllll English. They even tried some rapprochement with the Irish who were getting rid of the English in the 1920s

    The overriding theme of all the early Zionist propaganda was that the Christian Europeans are mean to us because they say we killed Jesus.
    They will Always hate us. So let’s go south back to the home we haven’t ruled in 2,900 years. Our little brown brothers will welcome us as saviors from the English colonists.

    Those Russians created a myth that the Muslim Palestinians would welcome them. They didn’t seem aware that Palestine was very Christian at the time. They just created a myth.
    But as soon as they arrived they set up all sorts of spy operations against the Turks. There was no war going on, but they spied on the Turks to prepare for any war that came along.

    So when WW1 came along they had maps and all sorts of information they gave to the British. Nice payment to the Turks who allowed them to set up their colony.

    And as soon as the British took over they started spying on the British. And of course from 1922 on they villified the British as evil anti semites who refused to turn the entire country over to them. They of course still claimed that the Arabs still really loved the Jews but the evil British kept stirring the Arabs against the Zionist.

    The whole thing was a huge fiction. Unfortunately with the help of the British, then Stalin and now we stupid stupid Americans the zionists made their dream come true.

    What with affirmative action and media and academic anti White propaganda the Jews will soon do to White Americans what they did to Russians 1918 to 1940 and what they are now doing to the Palestinians

    • Replies: @snag
  145. Seraphim says:
    @renfro

    The trouble is that Muslims always hated the Christians also. In that respect they are like the Jews. That’s why they got along so well for a long time, allied in the common exploitation of the Christian populations.

  146. annamaria says:
    @Tyrion 2

    You did not recognize your own words? — “Having gays parading around the streets is distasteful. Throwing them off buildings as your lot are wont to do is horrific.”
    Then I need to repost my text: “Iran is very-very bad, but when Israel has been killing children in Gaza Ghetto – oh, that’s Ok because Israelis are the giants of morality from your point of view.
    Don’t you like the Jewish Museum of Tolerance built, despite the vigorous protests from decent people, on the ancient Palestinian cemetery? How about the massive theft of Palestinian land? The Israel’s support for Daesh/ISIS because the Golan Heights?
    Considering the Kagans’ clan well-documented warmongering — and even an active and profitable collaboration of its member with the neo-Nazi in Ukraine — Jews should be rather more careful when judging other people. https://consortiumnews.com/2015/03/20/a-family-business-of-perpetual-war/
    The following links are about the rise of anti-semitism in Ukraine AFTER the victorious Revolution of Indecency, which was “arranged” by Nuland-Kagan and the CIA in cooperation with local neo-Nazis in 2014. So much for the memory of victims of the WWII, Tyrion 2?

    https://dninews.com/article/israel-notes-growth-anti-semitism-ukraine

    https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-more-anti-semitic-than-russia/25384493.html

    https://charlenecleoeiben54123.wordpress.com/2014/03/15/washington-fuels-rise-of-neo-nazism-and-anti-semitism-in-ukraine-the-role-of-john-mccain/

    Instead of hunting the senescent former Nazi guards, better take a look at the current supporters and collaborators with neo-Nazi both in Canada and the US. You cannot screech about Holocaust and, at the same time, see no evil in Nuland-Kagan’s endeavors in Kiev, as well as in Ledeen’s involvement in yellow cake forgery and Wolfowitz’, Kristol’, Krauthummer’ and such fanatical support for the supreme crimes of the wars of aggression in the Middle East. And don’t forget your own kapos.”
    – What was unclear in the above text for you? The neo-Nazi connections of the Kagans or the subhuman war-mongering of Israel-firsters in the US and UK?

    • Agree: jacques sheete
    • LOL: Tyrion 2
    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
  147. annamaria says:
    @Talha

    Thank you for the beautiful post.

    • Replies: @Talha
  148. snag says:
    @Alden

    Until they provide some proof its a fairy tale, nothing but stolen or plagiarized myths of other cultures and civilization.

    Oops! It looks like our Creator found the Egyptians around 1200-1400 years earlier than Abraham if you believe that he existed.

    http://www.tabletmag.com/scroll/176348/bas-relief-depicts-circumcision-in-ancient-egypt

  149. fellas, please show some respect when talking to a lady.
    the mob cries, give us Barabas!
    but we cry, let Your Kingdom come.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  150. Alden says:
    @renfro

    Didn’t the Assyrians conquer Jerusalem in 870 BC? Or was that some other country?

    The wailing wall or what’s now called the remnant Temple wall was never part of a building. It’s part of a retaining wall built by Herod who was hated by the Jews because he was partly Arab.

  151. Alden says:
    @Twodees Partain

    The tales of Boewulf, King Arthur, Siegfried and Singlied are about as truthful as David and the Jewish myths.

  152. Alden says:
    @snag

    A lot of Palestinians stayed Christian after the Muslim conquest. Even during the worst of times, they got a lot of support from the papacy and the Orthodox Church. The pilgrimage trade provided enough money to both pay the infidel taxes and live comfortably.

    DNA studies of the Palestinians show that they are descended from the ancient canaanites. They have a lot more right to Palestine than 1880s Russians.

  153. I used to give the Israelis the benefit of the doubt about the Palestinians being the aggressors.
    But after what I’ve seen here in America, with them basically controlling our Govt. via AIPAC and other lobbies, the Federal Reserve, complete control of the MSM with all their lies, CIA, NSA, Soviet police state creep, well, its kind of hard not to put it all together…
    I now side with the Palestinians, if they’re doing all this crap to us here in America, I can only imagine how they treat the Palestinians…….
    and they’re gettin worse every day.
    Not good Israel, not good….

    • Agree: Johnny Smoggins
    • Replies: @Johnny Smoggins
    , @bookish1
  154. AaronB says:
    @Talha

    Excellent additions to the list talha!

    Especially Goethe was deeply attracted to Persian poetry, etc.

    Over on Anatoly Karlin’s thread on Jews Bardon Karolian gives a really impressive list of cultured Europeans who despise Judaism as vulgar and crass.

    So it seems cultured European opinion really reacted to Judaism and Islam in completely opposite ways, and it was more than just a failure to find Judaism appealing.

    I feel almost bad bullying our poor Trion here – Tyrion, we don’t hate Jews as people! And we hold out hope you can redeem your vulgar culture and forget about money and learn to find joy in poetry and imagination and spirituality.

    • Replies: @Frankie P
    , @Talha
    , @Tyrion 2
  155. Alden says:
    @Talha

    I don’t think it matters if Muslim culture over the centuries is great, terrible or mediocre.

    What matters is that using first the Turks, then the British, Stalin for a few years and now the United States the Zionists stole an entire country from its rightful owners.

    Personally I don’t think Israel will last more than 200 more years. About 20 percent of the Jewish population of Israelis live in the Inited States because they can make a better living here. The Mizrahi totally hate the European Jews.

    Most of the Israelis hate conscription and don’t want to fight any more. That’s always been the job of the goyim.

    Betnahuyu was talking about taking over Ukraine as a refuge recently.

    Being nationalistic and productive, Israel just isn’t Jewish. They are a global people constantly in the move from one country to another. They are not really producers, they are dependent on the producers.

    Of course my theory doesn’t help the Palestinians who are suffering now.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Tyrion 2
    , @Sam J.
  156. Alden says:
    @sarz

    It’s actually a retaining wall built to stabilize the hill the fort was on.

  157. AaronB says:
    @jacques sheete

    Sounds like you’ve a touch of the anarchyst in you, as do I :)

    The last great age of humanity was the egalitarian hunter-gatherer period – it’s been downhill ever since.

    As for our current times, I just like to make our choices as starkly clear as possible to everyone – to contend for top dog position, whites have to become more evil. No use shirking this fact and dreaming of an “ethical” fight. That doesn’t mean it wouldn’t have to be presented as an ethical fight. That would be a necessary part of it.

    Being ethical means surrendering top dog position. Honesty about this is crucial.

    Once the choices are laid out, we must make our choices.

    For me, it’s the merry woods and the mountain caves and the deserts, and the arts of subterfuge and evasion among men.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  158. Ron says:

    This article is total BS- i would not know where to start
    in contradicting such drivel – I read UNZ in an attempt to avoid such irrational chosen-people fantasy- perhaps it makes this wonderful site appear to be more evenhanded in allowing such contrived and bizarre logic to be published occasionally.

    • Replies: @Truth
  159. Alden says:
    @Zumbuddi

    I noticed Abraham the original dead beat Dad who kicked his sex slave Hagar and his toddler son Ishmael out to die of thirst and dehydration in the desert when I was about 7. Maybe it was because I loved my baby sister so much at the time and identified Ishmael with her. My thought was who could kick a cute loveable toddler out to die in the desert? Then the crazy evil old coot wanted to kill his Jewish son.

    There are not suitable for children warnings on movies and Tv shows. It should be on the entire OT; X rated

    Are there any parts of the OT where people are just average decent? Or is it just slay rape and slay again?

  160. Alden says:
    @AnalogMan

    Good for you, right on!!

    The Jews are in the process of doing to American Whites what they did to the S
    African Whites. It might not succeed because the Jews are running around between blacks, Hispanics, the 2 percent of the population that is gay and tranny, Asians and even Arab immigrants to form an anti White coalition. The only anti White groups the Jews managed to form coalitions with gays and blacks. That coalition still holds, but the other grievance groups have their own agenda and have resisted Jewish takeover for decades.

    Never forget never forgive

  161. Alden says:
    @Jake

    There is a reason why the rich Saudis Kuwaitis etc are subsidizing huge Muslim Arab settlement all around DC. It’s to establish a presence to offset the Jewish occupation of our government.

    They are doing exactly what the Jews did in the 20th century, endless whining and complaining coupled with massive bribery. Hopefully it will work someday.

    • Agree: snag
    • Replies: @Stan d Mute
  162. Ace says:
    @jilles dykstra

    Thanks. Something to keep in mind. Arab Muslims took Christian/pagan lands in the M.E. and N. Africa. Turkish Muslims took it from them and a subset of them cheated resident Arab Muslims in “Palestine” or Palestine. They then sold some of this land to Zionists. I’m not trying to be facile but it does seem that the idea of “claim of right” to land in that area is pretty weak.

    I was referring to later purchases by Jews from individual Arabs. Maybe the latter really were Turks and known to be so by the Zionists but the casual reading I was doing on this issue back when left me with my present belief that it was local Arabs who purported to be owners who sold the land. Jews then made a point never selling any land purchased back to any Arabs, thereby gradually adding to the total of Jewish-owned land.

    Be that as it may, the military and terrorist efforts in 1948 created Israel and the strategy of purchase became moot.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  163. Ace says:
    @Tim Timson

    When people start talking about “eternal” this or “sacred” that I immediately make sure I have my wallet in an inside pocket.

  164. Ace says:
    @annamaria

    ** with grandiose criminal projects that always feature the victorious Eretz Israel **

    . . . and the destruction of all Western nations by massive Muslims and African immigration with a thick sauce of soul-sapping, nation-destroying propaganda from virtual Jewish media monopoly.

  165. snag says:
    @Alden

    “Nice payment to the Turks who allowed them to set up their colony”.

    Spying, snitching and backstabbing it’s their (™), ask Poles or any nation in Europe after Bolshevik Revolution that happen to be their creation and their evil responsible for annihilation at least. 130-150 million souls if you count Chinese victims. Mao Tse Tung wouldn’t be Mao Tse Tung if it wasn’t for his Jewish goons called ‘advisors’. The ‘Great Leap Forward’ and ‘Cultural Revolution’ in China was conceived and executed by Mao’s ‘advisers’ like comrade Sidney Rittenberg, the architect and founding father in charge of implementation of that evil plan responsible for at least 45 million starved to death Chinese peasants during collectivization, assisted by Sidney Shapiro, a member of the CPPCC National Committee for six terms, Israel Epstein, Solomon Adler, Martin Sorrell, Rewi Alley, Adolf Abramovitch Joffe to name few on the top of the influence ladder. In fact, a comprehensive analysis by Professor R.J. Rummel (professor emeritus of political science at the University of Hawaii) in his book ‘China’s Bloody Century: Genocide and Mass Murder Since 1900′ concluded that both those events, the Great Leap Forward and Cultural Revolution are responsible for at least for 76 million deaths of starvation and related diseases? Nobody is talking about, why? Maybe because of the perpetrator’s ethnic background ,…

    Couple years ago Rittenberg was promoting his book about his life in China and Mao on C-span and no one asked him a question what he was really doing there.

    https://wideawakegentile.wordpress.com/2013/12/18/jews-in-china-mao-era/

    The only way to fight them is to take the media from them and return to people without media in their hands they’re nothing.

    • Replies: @Alden
    , @Z-man
  166. Ace says:
    @jconsley

    Israel needs a buffer zone for its buffer zone.

  167. King David conquered it 1000 years Before Christ

    Yes, so what? Was King David your Messiah? The living embodiment of your YHWH? You’d do well to remember that 2,000,000,000+ Yeshua true believers are certain their God was born in a manger in Bethlehem, raised in Jerusalem where he preached and held his Last Supper before being arrested and crucified then finally resurrected. 2 Billion plus people are convinced “your” Jerusalem was where their God put their Messiah and your people killed Him.

    Your favorite nation exists today solely at the sufferance of those Yeshuans. Were I a Jew, I’d temper my exuberance a bit, Yeshuan fanatics may seem tamer than Mohammedans, but only because they are infinitely more restrained and more organized. All it takes is one charismatic Yeshuan fanatic to ask, “Why are the Christ killers running the town where they killed Christ?” What happened in WW2 wasn’t religious fanaticism but merely jealous populism against an alien minority, I hope you never see the former.

    • Agree: Z-man
    • Replies: @Seraphim
    , @jilles dykstra
  168. Alden says:
    @AaronB

    I know some Mizrahi Jews who left for California. They hate the European Jews. They claim the European jews treat them as badly as they treat the Palestinians. I don’t know how true that is, but that’s how some Mizrahi feel.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
    , @AaronB
  169. @Alden

    They are doing exactly what the Jews did in the 20th century, endless whining and complaining coupled with massive bribery. Hopefully it will work someday.

    Demographics are Destiny. Pew Research says by 2050 there will be as many Mohammedans as Christians (2.76 Billion vs 2.96 Billion). Jews will then number an insignificant 16 Million. A Mohammedan sneeze (or less likely a Christian fanatical sneeze) would snuff out Judaism like a hurricane would a candle.

    If Jews were remotely as smart as they think they are, they would move their Israel to a less contested piece of dirt. It’s not even a question of “if” but only a question of “when”. Their nation exists today only because of the protection from Uncle Sam and to lesser degree of England. As both become ever more Mohammedan, the clock winds down for Israel. Even today, a handful of fanatics in Pakistan or India and it’s over.

    As a non Jew hater, I hope they come to their senses and stop thinking and behaving in a manner that can only lead to their extinction.

    • Replies: @Truth
  170. Alden says:
    @Tyrion 2

    The subject of the article is not Muslim achievements but Trump’s moving the American embassy to Jerusalem.

    You are way off topic with your ridiculous attempt to bring Muslim dis function into the discussion.

    Stuck to the topic.

    • Agree: Talha
    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  171. Alden says:
    @snag

    When I was in college and up to about 1980, many of the Jews I knew carried around copies of Mao’s Little Red Book.

    A lot of them helped the likes of Kathy Boudin, Billy Ayers and Bernadette Dorhn when they were on the run after the bombings andmurder of police.

    Do the Chinese know about Mao’s Jewish advisors? The Armenians know that it was Jews in the Turkish government who instigated the Armenian genicide although it was mostly Kurds who did the dirty work.

    Thanks so much for the information.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  172. Talha says:
    @annamaria

    Most welcome and thank you for the many interesting links you are constantly providing.

    Peace.

  173. Seraphim says:
    @Stan d Mute

    Christians (not Yeshua ‘true believers’) know that Jesus was raised in Nazareth.

  174. @redmudhooch

    I now side with the Palestinians, if they’re doing all this crap to us here in America, I can only imagine how they treat the Palestinians

    Same here. I’ve completely gone over to the Palestinian side because everything I’ve learned about Jews and Israel has filled me with such disgust.

    I can hardly even bring myself to call it “Israel” anymore. Instead I mostly refer to that land as Palestine or Occupied Palestine. With that being said, I still want all Jews to go there and stay there forever.

  175. Frankie P says:
    @AaronB

    I think Tyrion and his ilk will continue to cultivate close relations with the likes of Reverend Hagee, CUFI, and the Evangelical Christians, a group not particularly well suited to the enjoyment of fine poetry, architecture, or even spirituality for that matter. This easily deceived group is so focused on radical interpretation of Revelations and their desire to bring about end times, they fail to see the detrimental effects of their blind support for Israel on the nation they claim to love.

    A pox upon them and their Zionist masters.

  176. Talha says:
    @Alden

    Hey Alden,

    Yeah – for some odd reason, Zionists often like to divert the discussion. Sometimes I ignore, sometimes I play along to expose the lack of knowledge and just bad character some of these guys have. They are not happy people. People who have a confidence in themselves and have contentment and don’t envy others have no problem with other people’ achievements and don’t need to denigrate others to feel better. The Muslim world had a fairly long run at science, medicine, etc. and being militarily powerful – it was probably top dog for about a 400-500 year range – not bad, not bad.

    Western Europe is a little late to the big-time civilization party, but hey, they’ve done fairly well on these fronts for the last few centuries – good for them. We’ve all certainly benefited; I plan to make Hajj on a plane when I take my wife.

    As far as Jerusalem and Israel too; I agree with your assessment that it won’t last too long. It’s not that Jews haven’t lived in the area or anything, they were all over the Middle East. Nobody in the pre-modern era minded that the population of Baghdad was 1/3 Jewish.

    Israel seems to me like some dream conjured up by a bunch of secular ethno-nationalists that weren’t even native to the place. Its a European thing (tied up in the whole notion of the ethno-nation-state), like you mentioned, the Mizrahis would never have come up with the scheme. It’s like communism or something; completely idealistic, bereft of a historical understanding (or even knowledge), with no vision of the long term future. And on top of it pissing off everyone in the area and making friends with the most hated elements of the Middle East like the Saudis. It’s seems so stupid to me that they ruined a relatively reasonable relationship the Jewish population had with the rest of the Middle East (for centuries may I add, the Jewish community of Baghdad was over 2000 years old) over this bunker-mentality pipe dream for muh nation-state.

    Of course my theory doesn’t help the Palestinians who are suffering now.

    No, but the right time will come…

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Frankie P
    , @Rurik
  177. My great great grandparents lived in a German castle in South West Germany, can I go there and take it from who ever controls it now? Is UNZ trolling this psychopath? Because if this is what this turns into I’m outta here

  178. Cee says:

    Would it be ok if a Native American community took over Times Square because Natives have been in Americas for 15000 years while the rest only 500 years at most…a far far bigger spread than those of the fanatic children of Abraham…..?

    • Replies: @iffen
  179. Biff says:
    February 23, 2018 at 5:58 am GMT
    One has to stand back in awe of the greatest bullshit story ever told. The champion of false promises and exaggerated claims – Religion.

    It’s a pity that Carlin’s ferocious intelligence didn’t comment on the greatest bullshit story ever told the HOLOCAUST – you know that story of the ‘Sacred 6 million’ who magically vanished without a trace that’s right NOT A SINGLE BODY WAS EVER FOUND OF A GASSED VICTIM, NOT A SINGLE MASS GRAVE LIKE KATYN OR SREBENICA WAS EVER FOUND WHEN THERE HAD TO BE HUNDREDS UPON HUNDREDS OF KATYN OR SREBENICAS. This bullshit story doesn’t end here we have the “MIRACULOUS COUPLE OF MILLIONS SURVIVORS’ imagine that when we were told that Hitler murdered every Jew who he could lay his hands on. Add to that no historian has ever ‘PRODUCED A PHOTO OR DRAWING OF A GAS CHAMBER NO HISTORIAN CAN PROVIDE A TECHNICAL REPORT OF THE INDUSTRIAL SCALE GASSINGS. It’s utterly ridiculous to think that those ‘PRIMITIVE HUTS’ in Auschwitz could be used to gas millions! Compare these crude huts with an American gas chamber.

    The Holocaust should be studied as exhibit A in the abuse of history for propagandistic purposes . Goebbels would have been in awe of this myth.

  180. Talha says:
    @AaronB

    Hey AaronB,

    Yes, he even wrote his own Diwan – pretty amazing!

    I feel almost bad bullying our poor Trion here – Tyrion, we don’t hate Jews as people!

    Yeah – I don’t hate Jews – the vast majority of my interactions with them have been friendly and cordial and I’ve never had a bad interaction with any co-workers, etc.

    My daughter had a recent bad interaction at her high school. She does props and stage management for theater at her school so she volunteered to help this religious Jewish group that was putting on an all-girls play. Since they were strict about male-female interaction (something our community also adheres to), they wanted only female volunteers. My daughter was very upset at the end of the day; she basically described her experience as “being yelled at all day by a bunch of Jewish ladies” – none of them thanked her for the hours of time she volunteered to help make the play a success. Funny thing is that one of her friends (who is Jewish) also volunteered to help and this girl was so pissed off at the behavior of these women. I simply told her; look, just like some Muslims do stupid stuff, they’ve got idiots in their own community too.

    But I have noticed something about plenty of Zionists on these forums, they are relentless about insulting others or speaking in condescending tones. Maybe it makes them feel better about themselves. Though I don’t consider Greasy William in this category. He is brutally honest, which I enjoy, but he will at least acknowledge Israeli or Jewish deficiencies and give credit to others where it’s due (though sometimes he needs correction).

    Peace.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  181. Tyrion 2 says:
    @Alden

    Unfortunately demographics had already sealed Lebanon’s fate long before Israel was persuaded to intervene in order to stop the malfeasance of Palestinian groups. Demographics had been shifting for a century as the French had expanded the borders when they took over from the Ottomans. This led to Christians and Druze dwindling as a proportion of the population.

    As a matter of clear historical record, Southern Lebanese threw rice at the incoming Israelis to welcome them. Unfortunately for Israel, mission creep meant they long overstayed and the interventiom turned sour. Lebanese may often blame Israel for the Palestinians ending up in Lebanon amd causing so much trouble but that is as much implied sympathy to Israel’s situation as it is looking for a scapegoat.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
    , @Sam J.
  182. @Alden

    A fairy tale, in my opinion, the Armenian genocide:

    Henry Morgenthau, ‘Ambassador Morgenthau’s Story’, New York, 1918

    Heath W. Lowry, ‘The story behind Ambassador Morgenthau’s Story’, Istanbul 1990

    ‘The Armenians in the Late Ottoman Period’, edited Türkkaya Atatöv, Ankara, 2002.

    Howard M. Sachar, ‘The emergence of the Middle East 1914-1924’, New York, 1969

  183. @Ace

    The story about the zionist purchases of Palestinian lands is carefully guarded.
    When you ask a jewish historian about it the answer is ‘very complicated question, difficult to explain’.

    It took me a long time to find out, I nowhere did find a clear explanation, not even in
    Charles D Smith, ‘Palestine and the Arab-Israeli conflict’, New York, 1992
    in my opinion the best book on the conflict.
    There are later editions.

    What I did not write, in Palestine there was no legal title to land.
    In the Palestinian culture the land belonged to who tilled it.

    • Replies: @Ace
    , @renfro
  184. @Stan d Mute

    There is not a shred of archeologic evidence that a king David existed

  185. Tyrion 2 says:
    @Talha

    Define high achievement.

    Going to the moon, building the internet, curing diseases, creating the novel, discovering DNA…

    The sophist asks the other to define the obvious in the forlorn hope that the other makes a small technical error so that the sophist can go back to their studied ignorance and pretend that the obvious does not exist.

    This is true and not true. They did, but not in those numbers. So you completely want to ignore the fact that thousands of Jews moved into Muslim lands and did fairly well there? There were no Jews that were taken into Abbasid or Mamluk or Ottoman territory after being expelled from other lands? Really?

    You’re flogging a straw man. Jews tend to do fairly well wherever they turn up, just as Muslims tend to do fairly badly. This is the phenomena, especially the Muslim part, that we are discussing. It is the phenomena that would render great benefit were there an answer to why it almost always is. Now your turn…

    So you are completely unfamiliar with men like Khwarezmi, Biruni, Ibn al-Haytham, Ibn Rushd, etc.?We’re cool with that. What’s interesting is that under the mural of Civilizations at the Library of Congress; Islam is listed as the civilization that contributed “Physics”

    Yay, that a fifth of the globe contributed a handful of moderately interesting figures and that America in a fit of extremely generous and obviously wrong politically correct generosity allowed that fifth an achievement is your best argument…

    Surely your argument now rests mostly on American condescension?

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    , @renfro
  186. @Old Jew

    Indeed, there still are people who trust wikipedia, not me

    • Replies: @Old Jew
  187. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @whatgarbage

    Is “whatgarbage” a real Jewish personality type? The kind who’s not satisfied with the destruction of someone else’s country (White South Africa) but then insists on destroying her own?

    This person’s probably just trolling. Hard to imagine you could be this insane.

  188. Tyrion 2 says:
    @Talha

    We got here because I pointed out that Islam’s supposed spiritual attachment to Jerusalem is a mere artefact of Islam’s blundering plagiarism. I then expanded to point out that such ill-understanding and uncreative plagiarism does not only describe much of the origin of Islam but it also describes much of the output of Muslim ‘culture’. This led me to ask why this was and if you agreed that this is a deep shame? You avoided the obvious and are now back to implying that because 1.6 billion want something, even if they don’t understand it, then 1.6 billion should get it because they have a propensity to violence and tend to do nothing more productive. Which ironically provides a perfectly logical response to my previous question. So thank you for your answer! My next question is how are Muslims going to go about solving all of the problems in the many Muslim countries?

    • Replies: @Bliss
    , @Talha
  189. Tyrion 2 says:
    @AaronB

    Jewish culture has no appeal to to cultured Europeans, while Islam has lots.

    As I wrote previously and you ignored…

    Is it that the prisons are full of converts to Judaism or is it that the prisons are full of refined and sophisticated Europeans?

  190. @Old Jew

    My brother and I were raised without religion, it was a non issue, what had been the little village church was converted for use for sports.
    To be completely clear, we were not raised in an anti religion atmosphere.
    The few in our village who went to church in a nearby village were conspicuous, on bicycles, in Sunday clothes.
    But, my brother, why, I still do not know, later in life joined a church.
    I never asked him outright about why.
    I hardly ever dared ask religious people about their belief, very sensitive issue.
    But he did make a few statements ‘I do not know what I believe’, ‘I feel good in church’, ‘it does not matter if Jesus existed or not, what matters is his ideas’.
    As long as people accept that laws are above religious rules, why should I object to beliefs ?
    The problem is that true believers believe that their beliefs, and the rules they see in their holy book, whatever it is, are above the secular law.

  191. Tyrion 2 says:
    @Alden

    I dont think you know anything about Israel. Let me straighten out your basic factual errors.

    . About 20 percent of the Jewish population of Israelis live in the United States because they can make a better living here.

    Statistically this is not true. Furthermore, of that substantially less than 20 percent, a big proportion are students and an even bigger proportion are American citizens with dual nationality, much with their roots in America not Israel. Your statement is simply born of the crazies on this site echoing nonsense back and forth to each other. It is embarassing.

    The Mizrahi totally hate the European Jews.

    Considering that all of the Israelis I met, who were alnost all under 35, had at least one Mizrahi grandparent and at least one Ashkenazi, this is demonstrably false.

    Most of the Israelis hate conscription and don’t want to fight any more.

    I wouldn’t confuse the desire for peace for decadence. Western Europe has become decadent and projecting our own worst feelings onto Israel has become a habit. Indeed projecting our own worst feelings in general has become a habit.

    Betnahuyu was talking about taking over Ukraine as a refuge recently.

    Being nationalistic and productive, Israel just isn’t Jewish. They are a global people constantly in the move from one country to another. They are not really producers, they are dependent on the producers

    Israel isn’t Jewish because it doesn’t fit your anti-Semitic stereotype and Israel is looking to relocate to Ukraine? If you’re doing parody of an internet loon you are hamming it up far too much!

    • Replies: @Alden
  192. Tyrion 2 says:
    @AaronB

    So it seems cultured European opinion really reacted to Judaism and Islam in completely opposite ways, and it was more than just a failure to find Judaism appealing.

    Looking at the very few European converts to Islam that don’t do it in prison, it seems that a large percentage are closeted homosexuals who historically took to Islam to have free reign of the numerous boy markets that Muslim countries have traditionally kept.

    Naturally, those closeted individuals are occasionally also interesting people, but, for the most part, they merely seem to have idenfitied a certain homoeroticism in Sunni Muslim culture and decided they wanted in on it.

    The whole widely admitted and long-established phenomena is quite confusing. I suppose it relates to the Jungian idea of The Shadow. I don’t really care enough to investigate though, even while recognising that this archetype is clearly hugely active in this comment thread. Mostly because I imagine that these thoughts will mostly just go whoosh over their heads.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @renfro
  193. Tyrion 2 says:
    @annamaria

    Obviously I meant “troll”. Stick your post is funny. And sad. Next time you begin to think that you may be quite crazy, go with that thought! Things could be better for you.

    • Replies: @annamaria
  194. There’s a reason Muslims living in Israel proper—1.5 million of them—don’t migrate to the adjacent Palestinian Authority. They’re better off in Israel. Should Jerusalem, East and West, be recognized formally as the capital of Israel only, under Jewish control alone; Christianity’s holiest sites will be better off. Judaism’s holy sites will be safer. And so will Islam’s.

    No, it’s either-or. They want to obliterate Israel, period.

  195. @anno nimus

    fellas, please show some respect when talking to a lady.

    Even if the “lady” is an ignorant, intolerant, bigot?

  196. @AaronB

    Being ethical means surrendering top dog position. Honesty about this is crucial.

    Being ethical means surrendering top dog mentation as well.

    Only a few will ever be honest about it and I don’t believe that group honesty exists. It may not even be possible, but what do I know?

  197. @Alden

    Mizrahi Jews who left for California. They hate the European Jews. They claim the European jews treat them as badly as they treat the Palestinians.

    I’m no expert on that aspect of the subject, but Uri Avnery confirms something of the sort from time to time.

    I think one of their great “accomplishments” is to have selected themselves quite well for a “hatred” gene to go along with their paranoid, usurious and contempt ones. The people in question obviously can’t stand anyone, including themselves, and the Torah provides plenty of evidence as do the writings of Josephus and their actions today.

    The tribe is a sick clique but hey, “muh akkoplishmuntz”!!!!

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  198. @Alden

    You are way off topic with your ridiculous attempt to bring Muslim dis function into the discussion.

    It’s typical behavior to attempt to derail the conversation by any means possible.

    While they are attention seekers they typically try to shift attention away from their misbehavior and blame others for what themselves they do.

    Pickpocket tactics.

  199. Qqqqq says:

    Awaywith those Abraham religions from Europe.
    They are notoriously deadly ideology.
    The best for the planet would be, if christians and moslems kill all jews and then kill each other up to the last individual.
    It would be the big big relieve for the planet.

    • Troll: Twodees Partain
    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
  200. Bliss says:
    @Talha

    Judaism is a (prominent) branch of Islam. Islam is the original package, it has come full circle, we are as old as mankind itself.

    What a load of laughable ass-backwards bullcrap. Who came first, Moses or Mohammad? How the hell can the imitation claim to be the original, you twisted brainwashed fool?

    “Old as mankind”? The pyramids of Egypt aren’t even as old as mankind and they precede Moses by around 1200 years and Mohammad by 3200 years.

    By the way, it makes more sense to see Judaism as an offshoot of the monotheistic Egyptian cult of the Pharaoh Akhenaten. Sigmund Freud, a Jew, wrote about in his book “Moses and Monotheism”.

    Note that the Torah/Old Testament and the Koran are written in Hebrew and Arabic respectively which are branches of the Afro-Asiatic family of languages of which the first written record is in ancient Egyptian. The practice of circumcision, an indispensable ritual in both Judaism and Islam, can also be traced back to Egypt. Ditto for the belief in bodily resurrection after death, in heaven or hell. Etc, etc

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @jilles dykstra
  201. @Anonymous

    BTW Al-Quds is not really the “name” of Jerusalem in Arabic, but more like a moniker meaning “the Holy One.”

    Peace in English, Sholom in Hebrew and Salem or Salam in Arabic. Jerusalem is a moniker too, which means City of Peace in Arabic, and for this reason it is spelled as Jerusalem. In Hebrew it has to be spelled as Jerusholom. Get it.

    Just like the city called, Daralsalam in Brunei which is pronounced as Darassalam. Or Daralsalaam in Tanzania which is again pronounced as Daressalaam. Why? Because, the “s” in salem (salam, salaam) is a “sun” letter and not a “moon” letter.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_and_moon_letters

    Also, Dar means “city or door”. So, both cities in Brunei and Tanzania mean, “City of Peace” or “Door of Peace”. Very Muslim and Arabic names.

    The full name for al-Quds is “Bait al-Quds” or “Bait al-Mukadas” meaning, The House of Holy. Both “m” and “q” are “moon” letters.

    • Replies: @mcohen
  202. @Tyrion 2

    ” Jews tend to do fairly well wherever they turn up, just as Muslims tend to do fairly badly ”

    Never saw the remains of the water wheels near Cordoba, the mosque there, the most impressive building I ever saw, or the Alhambra in Seville ?

    • Replies: @Alden
  203. @jacques sheete

    For a description, in Israel, on how asjekenazi jews, those from E Europe, discriminate the sephardic ones,
    see
    Ralph Giordano, ‘Israel um Himmels willen Israel’, 1993 Köln
    Giordano is a German jewish journalist who toured Israel.

  204. @Grahamsno(G64)

    ” Compare these crude huts with an American gas chamber. ”

    Indeed, this was the idea of USA gas chamber builder Leuchter, after he had seen the Birkenau buildings, presented to the present day as gas chambers.
    Weird that the Birkenau guides never read
    Léon Poliakov, ‘Bréviaire de la Haine, Le IIIe Reich et les Juifs’, 1951, 1974, Paris
    Poliakov was present at the Neurenberg show, based on the ‘testimony’ given there he writes that the Auschwitz gas chambers were blown up by the Germans at the end of 1944, when the Red Army was approaching.
    On top of this, according to Poliakov, the gassings were in cellars.
    Elie Wiesel, who left there at the time, does not mention demolitions
    Elie Wiesel, ‘La Nuit’, 1958, 2007

  205. Bliss says:
    @Tyrion 2

    Islam’s supposed spiritual attachment to Jerusalem is a mere artefact of Islam’s blundering plagiarism.

    Exactly. The original blunder was corrected by Almighty, All-Knowing Allah himself in the Koran (the ultimate authority in Islam) where he commands Mohammad to stop prostrating towards Jerusalem and instead start prostrating towards Mecca. And by the way, the Kaaba in Mecca at that time still contained all its idols and images.

    There is absolutely no religious justification for Muslim claims to a share of Jerusalem.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  206. mcohen says:
    @Dan Herman

    Yerushalayim—more specifically, the Temple Mount—was the very spot where Abraham almost sacrificed his son Isaac. Look in the narrative there and you’ll see that after he was told by an angel of G‑d not to sacrifice his beloved son, it reads:

    And so Abraham named that place “G‑d will see,” as it is said to this day, “On the mountain, G‑d will be seen.”2

    The Hebrew word for “will see” is yireh. That’s the first half.

    Now, what was the city called before Abraham renamed it Yireh? To discover this, we need to backtrack a few chapters. After rescuing his relative, Lot, from captivity, we read how Abraham was greeted by “Malchizedek the king of Shalem,” who greeted him with bread and wine.3 An ancient tradition tells us that Malchizedek was actually one and the same as Shem, son of Noah, and that Shalem was none other than the very place that Abraham would eventually rename Yireh. So Shalem is the second half: Yireh + Shalem = Yerushalayim.

  207. @Grahamsno(G64)

    The Holocaust should be studied as exhibit A in the abuse of history for propagandistic purposes .

    True.

    The troll who extols the “akkomplushments” is probably referring to that or 9/11 or the like. Even I have to admit that they really accomplished something by pulling such gags on us dumb goyim.

    Goebbels would have been in awe of this myth.

    There can be no doubt that he was in awe of the big lie. The Nazis were propaganda pikers compared with the Brits, the Reds, and the Zionists, all of whom had a lot more experience and expertise with propaganda than Germany could ever dream of.

    In fact, one of the more stunning accomplishments of the tribe was to sell the nonsensical and perverted idea that the biggest propagandists were the Nazis, a false claim that even persists to this day, while the Brit, Red and Zio propagandists remain almost completely unknown to the masses.

  208. annamaria says:
    @Tyrion 2

    “Next time you begin to think that you may be quite crazy…”
    — Relax. Your petty psychological attacks are of no value. You have been already caught on the ignorance re Islamic culture and on Muslimophobia. You also display cognitive neglect re the documented ziocon/Israeli crimes, because Israelis/Jews, for you, are superior beings. They are not – which is inconsolable for you.
    “Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?” Matthew 7:3-5
    The Arabs are your cousins. Learn how to live in peace with your blood relatives — and on your own, please.

    • Replies: @Dan Herman
  209. @Tyrion 2

    As a matter of clear historical record, Southern Lebanese threw rice at the incoming Israelis to welcome them.

    The Nazis also enjoyed similar receptions. A big difference is that the Nazis probably never intended to betray those who welcomed them and that they likely intended to liberate and protect them from the crackpot Reds.

    And we should all know who/what were responsible for the “permanent world revolution” Red supremacist movement.

  210. Is it that the prisons are full of converts to Judaism or is it that the prisons are full of refined and sophisticated Europeans?

    Depends on where they’re located.

    The prisons in Israel are probably full with people, even children, who don’t bow before their sadistic Izzy masters.

    In the US the prisons are often a “for profit” enterprise and we all know who/ what’s “akkomplushed” at profit and control, don’t we?

    Also, US prisons are notorious for being filled with drug offenders, and we all know which mafia groups profit from the illegal drug trade, don’t we?

    Abu Ghraib was probably a neocon profit and sadism thriller center as well. We all know, don’t we, where neocon sentiments lie…

  211. Talha says:
    @Bliss

    Who came first, Moses or Mohammad?

    Adam (pbuh) of course…and Noah (pbuh)…

    “He has laid down for you as religion that which He charged Noah with, and that We have revealed to you, and that We charged Abraham with, Moses and Jesus: ‘Perform the religion, and divide not regarding it’…” (42:13)

    We seem to disagree as to when Islam came into being. You insist it started with the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), we insist it was (in its present form) revived by him. That’s fine, we can disagree; no need to resort to shrill name calling – we’re adults here, we have handle differences in opinion.

    Man did those Egyptians own it or what??!! And the pyramids, dang – batting it out the park – like a champ!!! (said in my best Negan voice).

  212. @Bliss

    There is absolutely no religious justification for Muslim claims to a share of Jerusalem.

    Maybe not, but it certainly is entertaining to experience atheists justifying some whacko claim on the basis of some G-d someone cooked up to anoint them as his “chosen.”

    What an “akkomplushment”!

    It’s almost funny.

  213. Well?
    Concerning Muslim culture.
    If you read one story of thousand and one nights You have read all three volumes.
    No offense intended, but very simplistic

  214. @Talha

    …we’re adults here, we have handle differences in opinion.

    talha, I have great respect for and admire you and your opinions, but I have to ask whether you know who you’re addressing there.

    No doubt you’re aware, but must have momentarily forgotten, that biological adults can, and often do, have severe maturity deficits when it comes to psychological and spiritual development.

    Permanently stunted emotional behavior (psychological infantilism) seems to be a common trait of the chosen ones.

    It goes something like this.:

    “Laziness and cowardice are the reasons why so great a proportion of men, long after nature has released them from alien guidance (natura-liter maiorennes), nonetheless gladly remain in lifelong immaturity, and why it is so easy for others to establish themselves as their guardians. It is so easy to be immature.”

    IMMANUEL KANT
    An Answer to the Question:
    What is Enlightenment? (1784)

    http://www.columbia.edu/acis/ets/CCREAD/etscc/kant.html

    Also, neoteny (persistent juvenility) is a known characteristic of some animals, particularly amphibians, and probably certain reptiles, I think. It certainly helps explain the easily brainwashed trolls we encounter all too frequently. We could also label it psychological pedomorphism, nutcase nonage, and a whole host of other things.

  215. AaronB says:
    @Tyrion 2

    Yes, I’m sure that’s it Tyrion :)

    Look, theres no need to be so defensive – I’m not really insulting Jews. You’re taking this way too personally.

    I like understanding reality – one of the first things everyone has commented about Jews is that they are unusually rich but have no culture or sophistication or beauty – it’s not me, this seems to be the consensus of European intellectuals for centuries. Don’t get angry at me!

    What interests me is, maybe by specializing in wealth acquisition, Jews had to neglect beauty and culture and the like? Maybe that accounts for the peculiar ugliness that so many have observed about Jewish life?

    Probably the FIRST thing one notices about Ashkenazi Jews after the wealth is a certain peculiar physical ugliness – not universal, but widespread – and a corresponding absence of beauty and culture in their social life. The only religion with no art – that must have some connection to the widespread physical ungainliness of Ashkenazim and is a wider question worth exploring.

    It’s an interesting hypothesis and worth examining if you are able to suspend your emotional sensitivities for a moment. You need a certain amount of emotional detachment that excitable Ashkenazim are not noted for.

    It’s not ‘against’ Jews – it’s sociology and it’s ultimately hopeful.

    Maybe the tragic seperation of Ashkenazi Jews from beauty, poetry, and imagination, the “soul”, and even the body, can be redeemed?

    In Israel, as you know, the physical ugliness of the Ashkenazim is somewhat softening as they marry with the Sephardim, who aren’t wealthy but who are physically healthy and good looking.

    And maybe the peculiar harshness and drabness of Ashkenazi life can similarly find redemption through engagement with cultures that have beauty.

    Extreme specialization, in this case toward money acquisition, will produce grotesqueries and deformities – it’s natural.

    Now, can you put aside your defensiveness and excitability for a moment to consider this?

    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
  216. AaronB says:
    @Talha

    Im sorry your daughter had to experience that. Bad manners, rudeness, and harshness is a big problem in the Jewish community. Many Jews complain about it too – it’s partly a product of the lack of culture, joy, and beauty that comes from specializing in money acquisition, and partly the bad moods engendered by the constant ego competition and put downs that are a defining feature of Jewish social life, and partly a cultivated attitude – harshness and rudeness make sense if you are trying to “conquer”.

    Working with a group of Jews I would have gone in expecting harshness, rudeness, competition, and put downs and insults.

    I’d be pleasantly surprised if it didn’t happen, which sometimes is the case.

    You shouldn’t be surprised about the condescending tones – the whole point of Judaism, it’s raison d’etre, is condescension, so to speak :)

    • Agree: jacques sheete
  217. @mcohen

    Yireh + Shalem = Yerushalayim.

    Loads of baloney, pastrami, salami….

    During Jesus time, the Bible didn’t exist, only the five books (torah) of Moses existed and which didn’t contain any vowels. Jesus spoke Aramaic to his disciples, as Hebrew was a deaaaad language.

  218. @mcohen

    Yireh + Shalem = Yerushalayim.

    It is crunch time for Netanyahu as his wife’s head is on the chopping block:

    Channel 10 News reported on Friday that police have WhatsApp chats between the prime minister’s wife, Sara Netanyahu, and Elovitch’s wife Iris, who is also under arrest.

    According to the report, the chat transcripts show Mrs. Netanyahu rebuking Mrs. Elovitch because Walla! News editor-in-chief Aviram Elad was not fired after another article she did not like.

    “This can’t continue like this, I thought we had talked about this. This is going on for too long. Why do I need to read such things on your website? Do something about it,” Sara Netanyahu wrote to Iris Elovitch.

    https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-5128665,00.html

  219. iffen says:
    @Cee

    Would it be ok if a Native American community took over Times Square

    Only if they agree to take the rest of NYC along with it.

    • Replies: @Alden
  220. iffen says:
    @mcohen

    Abraham would eventually rename Yireh. So Shalem is the second half: Yireh + Shalem = Yerushalayim.

    So this is how big money Jews came up with the idea of selling stadium naming rights. Makes sense now.

  221. @mcohen

    Yireh + Shalem = Yerushalayim.

    70 years is a page in history…..

    Two more Russian topline Su-57 land in Syria to challenge US, Israeli air might

    Government sources in Moscow reported Saturday, Feb. 24, that four fifth-generation Sukhoi-57 jet fighters are currently deployed in Syria after a second pair landed Friday. The first two arrived on Monday, Feb. 19 at Russia’s Khmeimim air base, along with 4 Su-35 fighters, 4 Su-25 strike aircraft and an A-50U radar command-and-control platform.

    DEBKA file reported the first pair’s arrival on Friday, Feb. 23, along with this comment: This top-performance fleet raises Russia’s air strike and defense capabilities in Syria to the highest standards of any air force in the world, with enough power to take on superior US and Israeli air might in the Syrian arena…….

    The very presence of the Su-57 across the border has had the instant effect of reducing the Israel air force’s freedom of action over Syria and Lebanon. The landing of the Russian Sukhoi-57 in Syria and its dire implications were first revealed in the latest DEBKA Weekly 790.

    https://www.debka.com/russias-topline-su-57-deployed-syria-challenge-us-israeli-air-might/

  222. Che Guava says:
    @Rurik

    Nice, Rurik.

    If I am not mistaken, that is Bale playing Patrick Bateman in the very good movie of American Psycho.

    Trump appears as a background prop (in the book) at least once or twice.

    I love the movie because I hate movies that are not faithful to the source (with the reluctant exception of Bladerunner, and even PKD ended up liking that).

    This thread is very entertaining, not least because Mercer really shows her twoo kuhlahs.

    • Agree: Rurik
  223. @annamaria

    The Arabs are your cousins. Learn how to live in peace with your blood relatives — and on your own, please.

    What beautiful speech….

    God bless you!

  224. Talha says:
    @Tyrion 2

    Going to the moon, building the internet, curing diseases, creating the novel, discovering DNA…

    Cool, so building upon and advancing the mathematics of the Greeks doesn’t count, apparently neither does opthamology and surgery…
    “Islamic Culture and the Medical Arts: Ophthalmology and Surgery”

    https://www.nlm.nih.gov/exhibition/islamic_medical/islamic_09.html

    Nor the advances in fields like astronomy, cartography, etc. So basically no one but Europeans had anything that qualifies as high achievement. And nothing really counts until about a couple of centuries ago. Again – cool with us.

    But this is OK – there are Jews like you and then there are Jews that have studied the past in a more objective manner:
    “In Knowledge Triumphant, Franz Rosenthal observes that the Islamic civilization is one that is essentially characterized by knowledge (‘ilm), for ‘ilm is one of those concepts that have dominated Islam and given Muslim civilization its distinctive shape and complexion.’ There is no branch of Muslim intellectual and daily life that remained untouched by the all-pervasive attitude towards ‘knowledge’ as something of supreme value for Muslim being.”

    http://www.brill.com/knowledge-triumphant

    “Hebrew grammar and philology did not exist as disciplines or even as systematic activities until the classical age of Islam. For the Jews, these intellectual ventures first arose in the Muslim East in the late ninth century as a result of their encounter with Arabo-Islamic culture in general and their adoption of Arabic as a spoken language in particular. Hebrew grammatical works in Judeo-Arabic follow Arabic models and terminology and represent some of the earliest literary manifestations and the most critical components of the Jewish sub-cultural minority’s efforts to adapt Jewish culture to the intellectual regimen established by Islam. Just as Arabic grammar and philology were essential tools for Qur’anic exegesis. Hebrew linguistic study became the cornerstone for biblical exegesis and the revival of Hebrew as a literaray language.”
    Medieval Islamic Civilization: An Encyclopedia

    The guy who wrote that passage is this:

    http://neareasternstudies.cornell.edu/ross-brann

    Any Muslim who knows his history finds your opinions fairly amusing.

    that America in a fit of extremely generous and obviously wrong politically correct generosity

    No, that mural was done when the South was still still segregated – there was no political correctness to speak of. Americans had a much more gracious and expansive attitude towards the achievement of others because they weren’t petty about recognizing who had helped humanity (and them in particular) get to where they did.

    Islam’s blundering plagiarism

    Back to square one, eh?

    That’s totally fine. Muslim achievements over the centuries don’t meet your standards. Apparently, all Muslim, ahem, “culture” is dysfunctional and hasn’t achieved anything. I’m actually very glad you are saying this stuff for everyone to read – frankly makes my job easier. I was talking with another brother who is observing this thread, we love it when the Zionist lose the veneer of civility and the condescending, uncompromising tribalism comes out. I just wish more of you guys spoke like this publicly. Tell me, do you think you are convincing people to your side here with the way you are approaching the subject?

    We’ve got plenty to do to fix issues in our societies which are far from perfect. That still doesn’t answer the question about Jerusalem though.

    So let’s recap; you’re not willing to share sovereignty reasonably and keep it an international city, you delegitimize our religious claims to the city, and apparently we don’t meet your approval for civilizational standards (when has our Ummah ever looked for Jewish approval).

    All well and good (not much different was expected actually) – so we do this the hard way (man, am I glad we are not a pacifist religion); again, how many of your lives is worth owning all of Jerusalem? As the numbers attest, your position rests on the ability to try to convince others to be pulled into a fight on your side against their own self interests. This is what Ms. Mercer is trying to achieve with this article. The Europeans are already becoming less and less interested in becoming cannon fodder, I guess the question is, how long will the US go along?

    Because attitudes like yours set the course for this to be resolved in only one way.

    The good thing is; I don’t think you represent the more reasonable side of your people.

  225. Bliss says:
    @Talha

    Adam (pbuh) of course…and Noah (pbuh)…

    And where are the stories of Adam and Noah (and Abraham and Moses) found first? The Torah or the Koran?

  226. @Bliss

    And where are the stories of Adam and Noah (and Abraham and Moses) found first? The Torah or the Koran?

    Of course Quran. You need to learn the meaning of Karat (Quran).

    In the beginning the word was with God… Umm Karat (Mother of Quran) is still with God….

    Do you believe that God kept sending different religions to different people?

    Is He/She/It a prejudice God?

    Or He/She/It sent the same religion, same golden rules on all people?

    Pretty elementary Sherlock!

  227. @Bliss

    Noah, the Gilgamesh Epos, Vedas.
    Crossing the river, sea, Moses, also in the Vedas, ‘start over again’.
    ⦁ Malati J Shendge, ‘The civilised demons : the Harappans in Rgveda’, 1977 New Delhi
    Gilgamesh may have been a historic reality, Harappa and Mohenjo Daro stopped functioning sudden.
    It now is supposed that India shifted sideways, blocking all water coming down from the Himalayas.
    The cities depended on water, transport and irrigation.

  228. Talha says:
    @Bliss

    From a physical perspective; the Torah.

    From a metaphysical perspective; neither one, Divine speech doesn’t originate in time.

    Again, you claim that because the Qur’an has many of the same history and persons in it as the Torah, it must have been copied. I get that, that is a rational conclusion.

    The other rational conclusion is; that if the Divine origin of both is the same, why would they not contain similarities?

    • LOL: Che Guava
    • Replies: @Bliss
  229. @Talha

    There is no evidence whatsoever that Moses ever existed, the first book that argued that Jesus never existed appeared in Germany around 1850.
    The books, there are more, argue that the stories about Jesus diverge too much.

    • Replies: @Talha
  230. @Bliss

    Barnenez in France is older than the piramids.

    • Replies: @Alden
  231. AaronB says:
    @Alden

    This is extremely common.

    Its common in Israel for Mizrahi Jews to say Ashkenazi Jews aren’t even Jews, and they are the real Jews. But that’s a reaction to Ashkenazi condescension.

    Some of my most “antisemitic” conversations abroad have been with Mizrahi Israelis.

    Even Ashkenazi Israelis have a faint contempt for diaspora Jews – however awful and racist Israel is as a state, it selected originally for Jews who were more idealistic and less obsessed with money, who had a great appreciation for nature, and who valued physical adventure. The whole point of Zionisn was to forever cure the ugly features of the diaspora Jew. Many of the original zionists were keenly critical of diaspora Jewry.

    You can find comments by Israelis on the Web describing American Jews as somehow offputting in a very basic way and obsessed with money.

    Until the 90s Israel was an extremely poor and basic kind of place where life revolved around physical adventure, nature, and there was a kind of dusty romance and poetry to life there, even as it was permeated with racism and founded on injustice, and manners were rude and harsh.

    I’m half-Jewish and half Catholic, but I grew up among Jews and lived for five years in Israel in the 80s. When I returned to America still very young I was immediately repelled in an instinctive way by American Jewish life – and in hindsight, I think I must have struck them as very “goyish”. Many of my American Jewish friends comment that Israelis seem “goyish” to them and find the country deeply alien – while still loyal to it.

    However, in the 90s American and diaspora Jewry in general began to seriously penetrate Israeli life and transform it in predictable ways. Israel today is heavily influenced by diaspora Jewry.

    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
    , @Alden
  232. bjondo says:
    @ILANA MERCER

    Poor only in pounds not delusions.

    Jew has best memory – remember events which never occurred.

  233. Tyrion 2 says:
    @AaronB

    Take your concern troll spiel elsewhere. You obviously know nothing about (high culture), nor Islam nor Judaism. I stand by my previous post. It obviously is it. Your reaction tells me everything.

    As for your ‘point’ about Christians and Muslims not admiring Jewish culture, that’s (intepreted in the kindest possible way) like stating that the Rolling Stones didn’t admire old American negro rhythm and blues.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @bjondo
    , @AaronB
  234. @Talha

    Any Muslim who knows his history finds your opinions fairly amusing.

    Even a non-Muslim goy like me knows that what you say is true and while I find its blathering amusing, I also find it revealing, and not in a positive sense. Its yacking mainly confirms what I’ve learned about the usual suspects.

    I’ve also learned that it’s futile to reason with the type, and that they are psychotically impervious to any facts that don’t serve them for the moment.

    • Replies: @Che Guava
    , @Talha
  235. Talha says:
    @jilles dykstra

    Hey jiles,

    Yeah, I’m aware there is no physical evidence about Moses (pbuh) or Abraham (pbuh) or Noah (pbuh) or Adam (pbuh)…

    Peace.

  236. AaronB says:
    @Tyrion 2

    “Sigh” – now I just got you angry :)

    I was hoping you were capable of the emotional detachment needed to discuss this. Too bad.

    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
  237. Che Guava says:
    @Talha

    It is not surprising that you are super-active on this thread, I agree that Ilana clearly identifies herself as an idiot with this article, you clearly identify yourself as a traitor to the U.S.A. with your responses.

    Post number 6 or so offers an accurate capsule history of what is now called, in English, Jerusalem.

    That demented pirate, Mohammed, never rode a non-existent celestial pony from a non–existent mosque in that city, because he died further east, and there was no mosque.

    • Replies: @Talha
  238. @Qqqqq

    Typical green weenie comment, misspellings, inarticulate wording, and a call for slaughter of humanity.

    Why does your kind claim that all humans must die, except for you? I’ve never seen any of you volunteer for the dirt nap .

  239. Che Guava says:
    @jacques sheete

    You are wise to distrust his words, and to, at least, track all on this thread back, I think you may find ‘gentle Talha’s’ comments more than a little disturbing.

  240. bjondo says:
    @Tyrion 2

    Jewish culture is what? Piss art?

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  241. @Talha

    Oy, vey.

    Spoken like a true yenta.

    • Agree: Talha
    • Replies: @Old Jew
  242. Talha says:
    @jacques sheete

    Likely, though it’s great to see the reaction in its unadulterated, pure, tribal glory!

    I’m trying to be reasonable…but there’s always the hard way.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  243. Tyrion 2 says:
    @AaronB

    The problem with discussing a complicated matter with someone who’s barely capable of apeing the intellectual sophistication of a pre-teen is not made smaller by them following the ‘style’ guide from the Daily Stormer. It just makes them take on a self-satisfied affectation while every point just whooshes over their head. The contrast is pathetic.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @Art
    , @annamaria
  244. Tyrion 2 says:
    @AaronB

    However, in the 90s American and diaspora Jewry in general began to seriously penetrate Israeli life and transform it in predictable ways. Israel today is heavily influenced by diaspora Jewry.

    It is very much the other way around, which is good. As Western non-Israeli Jews have the same addiction to SJW nonsense that their non-Israeli non-Jewish western elite neighbours have. If you can follow that clumsy sentence!

  245. @renfro

    Amazing factual comment, renfro, as usual. It definitely puts into perspective the jewish claim to jerusalem, a city they occupied for a scant few years. From the timeline, it would appear that they have the least claim of all people to the city.

    Excellent! Thank you!

  246. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Mercer, don’t worry, your kind and Trump and his kind will have an eternity in Hell… so there will be no forgetting, for sure.

  247. Talha says:
    @Che Guava

    Cool, a dude from Japan is telling me I’m a traitor to the US. Come here, pay taxes, get your citizenship papers and then I’ll take your opinion seriously as a co-citizen.

    because he died further east, and there was no mosque.

    Now, I am really, really hurt! Why I just don’t know what I’m gonna do? (again, in best Negan voice)

    Look I get you don’t agree with our claim to the place, I empathize with you. The IDF is looking for volunteers, maybe they’ll make an exception for you so you can actually do something about it.

    My gut feeling? Based on the fairly friendlyJapan-Turkish relations going back to Ottoman times, if the Turks decide to join up to throw down with the Israelis, the Japanese street would back our side. What do I know though…

  248. AaronB says:
    @Tyrion 2

    The last great age of Jewish self-criticism was Zionism. It was fundamentally misconcieved and it didn’t work, but it was a grand attempt to redeem what the cultured and sophisticated portion of mankind everywhere had agreed was an extremely unappealing and defective Jewish culture.

    Isn’t it time for a new great period of Jewish self-criticism? Instead of getting defensive and sensitive why not develop the realism and tough self-love needed to “tikkun yehudim”.

    The world must focus on Judaism and “tikkun” it – wouldn’t it be better if you cooperated rather than be dragged along kicking and screaming? It’s for your own good, and will happen one way or another. We have to “repair” you, and we will.

    The previous great age of Jewish self-criticism was Hasidism, which tried to introduce a mystical and imaginative dimension to a culture that had grown dry and legalistic and ugly, wallowing in the mud of money obsession and dirty fantasies of cruelty and power, and childish arguments about trivial nonsense.

    But it too was flawed from the get go and didn’t take.

    What you don’t understand Tyrion is that no one hates you here – we want to fix you.

    The sophisticated and cultured portion of mankind has long been trying yo help you reach a higher level and offered you their hand in assistance – but you have spurned it, and created a situation where those who truly hate you have had the upper hand.

    Was that wise?

    There is a budding new movement of self-critical Jews like Gilad Atzmon and Israel Shakir and many others – who not join them?

    This third attempt at Jewish redemption may be the charm.

  249. AaronB says:
    @Tyrion 2

    Come, come, Tyrion, no need to throw tantrums :)

    • Replies: @Josecanuc
  250. Truth says:
    @Tyrion 2

    Boring! Jews ain’t to blame for all your ills. Yours is a pathetic position to take.

    I know, right?

    Everybody knows it’s blacks.

    • LOL: Talha
    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Tyrion 2
  251. Truth says:
    @AaronB

    As Shamir has shown, and I have seen, life in the West Bank isn’t much worse. Believe it or not, Israel doesn’t look first world at all, however rich it may be on paper. Aside from squeaky new developements, Israel isn’t really better materially than the West Bank.

    I was in Israel two years ago. I would say that this is not true. Visually, Palestine doesn’t look much different from Israel, but the livestyle of the respective peoples is much MUCH different.

  252. bookish1 says:
    @redmudhooch

    There is somewhat of a contradiction in your thinking about understanding the Palestinian point of view now that you see what the jews are doing in the America. So if you understand what jews are doing(and have done) in America why would you want jews to emigrate from Israel to America? That is what will happen if Israel goes under and becomes Palestine. If you understand what jews have done to America then you want jews to emgirate from America to Israel to free us from jewish troublemaking. Correct?

  253. Truth says:
    @Talha

    I just watched that Lyin’ Ted clip. Man, I didn’t think they could possibly take it that low.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=315&v=x2ZVihACwQ0

  254. Truth says:
    @Ron

    LOL, hey Ron I’m glad you feel that way. I agree with you. Only you can change it though, it is your site.

  255. Truth says:
    @Stan d Mute

    If Jews were remotely as smart as they think they are, they would move their Israel to a less contested piece of dirt.

    Having the Jewish homeland in Paraguay would kind of defeat the whole purpose, Old Sport.

    • Replies: @Stan d Mute
  256. Talha says:
    @Truth

    Black Jews!!!

    • Replies: @Truth
  257. Art says:
    @Tyrion 2

    The problem with discussing a complicated matter with someone who’s barely capable of apeing the intellectual sophistication of a pre-teen is not made smaller by them following the ‘style’ guide from the Daily Stormer

    Really “Daily Stormer” – I see Hasbara Central has sent out the troops. The lemmings will say anything nasty! Calling people stupid Nazis is so smart.

    These little Jew lemmings are funny – their cut and paste sentences are so cutesy.

    Oh my’ – there is a comment without a “six million lie” and an “anti-Semite” charge in it – congratulations!

    Say Tyrion 2 – how many Palestinian children did you jail yesterday? Are they being tortured today?

    Think Peace — Art

    • Troll: Tyrion 2
    • Replies: @Art
  258. Truth says:
    @Talha

    Then I agree with him.

    • Replies: @Talha
  259. snag says:
    @animalogic

    “Herod ruled 37 BCE” – Ironically the only monarch that build and left something there that we can touch and admire was an Arab.

  260. Rurik says:
    @mcohen

    Troll

    what’s the matter?

    Is it that you Zionists like to point to the N. Americans and say we have nothing to say about Zionism because we’re living on the ‘Indian’s’ land?

    Eh?

    That’s important to you, as a kind of [false] ‘moral equivalent’, isn’t it?

    But all of that was pre-Nuremburg, when it was considered noble to conquer. And you were admired for doing so, even by your vanquished, who were trying to do the same thing to you.

    But all of that changed after WWII, when the civilized world was rightfully appalled at the horrors of Total War.

    So they/we created a new covenant, and they/’we’ {tortured and then} hanged the Nazis by the neck, and brutally humiliated the German people [that in a milder form, continues to this day] as an example to the next tribe that wants to take by force (steal) other people’s land.

    But now selectively, some Zionists would like to pretend that Nuremburg never happened, and that in this one narrow context, we can all skip the lessons of WWII, since now they’re strong, and in a position to genocide their neighbors.

    and out of one side of their mouths, they screech “Nazis”!! Look what they did to us!!!”

    and put grandmothers in prison for telling the truth

    and then out of the other side of their faces they foment wars and drop white phosphorous on children and connive to steal the Golan Heights.

    Indeed, guys like ‘America’s rabbi”, Shmuley Boteach scold us all for our racism, and yet attempt, (pathetically) to try to justify the bloodthirsty super-racism of Zionism.

    And a reasonable person watches Shmuley, and how he assumes his audience is imbecilic, and we just wonder at how vile and dishonorable such a person is capable of being.

    But then Shmuley was raised in a culture of Kol Nidre, wasn’t he? And so lying and cheating and one-upmanship are a well-honed tradition, aren’t they?

    I don’t like to lower the tenor of the conversation here, but when I hear people blaming the pitiable people of Gaza for the unimaginable suffering they’ve been forced to endure for generations – though no fault of their own, and listen to them being maligned, for apparently not being willing to just all die, so that Zionist Jews can steal the little left that they have on this earth, I tend to get a little intemperate in my tone.

    If it is wrong (and I believe it is) to use force to ethnically cleanse and murder and steal other people’s property, then fine, and we should all continue to condemn it, wherever it’s done, from Nazi Germany, to Gaza.

    This is what conversations like this are supposed to be about. What exactly are the rules? And why are we enforcing them selectively?

    If it is fine under certain circumstances to use barbarism to crush a people’s will to exist, and attempt to destroy their dignity, so that you can steal their land, then the Nazis had every right to do what they did, and then some.

    If it’s OK for Israel to torment and murder the citizens of Gaza and steal the Golan Heights- when it suits their whim = then everything the Nazis (supposedly) did to the Jews was justified; by the very same metrics and morality and motivations that the Zionists are purporting to justify what they’re doing today in Palestine.

    And unless you believe that the Jews are different, and are not subject to the laws that govern Gentile behavior, because somehow they’re sooo much better, then what I just said is based on irrefutable logic. Period.

    • Replies: @Stan d Mute
  261. snag says:

    Due to the birth rate in 30 years those ortho modestly wrapped in black pacifists will become a majority and that will be the end of zio-experiment.

  262. Tyrion 2 says:
    @Truth

    Or…it is complicated? Like everything outside of junior school Maths.

  263. snag says:
    @sarz

    Not so fast, here’s another fairytale ,…

    Research Reveals Ancient Struggle over Holy Land Supremacy
    ——————————————————————————————-

    http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/new-research-shows-that-jerusalem-may-not-be-the-first-temple-a-827144-2.html

  264. Art says:
    @Art

    TROLL!

    So, Tyrion 2 – why does someone telling the truth about Israeli child torture, qualify as a troll?

    Surely you have something to say about this hideous immoral practice of your country —- more than just “troll.”

    What – are Jews immune from censure? Are we not allowed to actually confront you with your evil?

    Do your Big Jews tell you to attack attack attack – cry victim cry victim cry victim – over and over. All to keep the Gentiles off balance, forever discussing nothing of substance, ignoring the outrage of the day.

    Tell us Little Jew – how do you wake every day, knowing that you are the backbone of child torture? That your efforts at hasbara allow this to continue going on and on day after day.

    Think Peace — Art

  265. snag says:
    @sarz

    “They should be sent back to Poland” – No one invited them there and nobody missed, keep them or find them place, preferably on another planet.

  266. @Truth

    Having the Jewish homeland in Paraguay would kind of defeat the whole purpose, Old Sport.

    Kind of depends on what “the whole purpose” truly is doesn’t it? Tell the truth now, which matters more: survival or magic dirt?

    • Replies: @Truth
  267. @Rurik

    And unless you believe that the Jews are different, and are not subject to the laws that govern Gentile behavior, because somehow they’re sooo much better, then what I just said is based on irrefutable logic. Period.

    You forget the one indisputable argument in reply: “You’re a Nazi!”

    And with that, Schmuley wins by knockout..

    • LOL: Rurik
    • Replies: @snag
  268. Bliss says:
    @Talha

    From a physical perspective; the Torah.

    Obviously. And that is the only perspective everyone can agree on. Try using the “metaphysical perspective” in a court of law and see how far you get before you are grabbed by the ears and led into the loony bin.

    From a metaphysical perspective; neither one

    So you admit that you willfully lied when you claimed that “Judaism is a (prominent) branch of Islam. Islam is the original package”. Since that statement cannot be true from either the physical or the metaphysical perspective. Why are you so intellectually dishonest?

    By the way, since you are from Pakistan, why don’t you apply your “metaphysical perspective” to the Ahmadi sect which originated there? After all their prophet also taught his followers to believe in the Hebrew prophets. And Mohammad as well. If he was a fraud, why wasn’t Mohammad?

    • Replies: @Talha
  269. Talha says:
    @Bliss

    You are conflating Divine speech (which is an increased attribute) with a religion – why? But I should have more correctly said; Judaism is a branch off of Islam.

    So the original wording could definitely cause confusion.

    If he was a fraud, why wasn’t Mohammad?

    What aspect of the term “Seal of the Prophets” does not compute?

    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @Talha
    , @Bliss
  270. AaronB says:
    @Talha

    Very similar to “perennial philosophy” ideas.

    There was an ur-religion once that divided into branches.

    • Replies: @Talha
  271. Truth says:
    @Stan d Mute

    To the “Jews” survival. To the Satanist Kabalists, “magic dirt.”

    Guess who has the power?

    https://www.henrymakow.com/2018/01/nazis-rescued-chabad-lubavitch.html

  272. Talha says:
    @Talha

    LOL! Stupid auto correct. Supposed to be *uncreated attribute* – astagfirullah!

  273. snag says:
    @Stan d Mute

    They made that “You’re a Nazi!” look like compliment ,…

    • Replies: @Stan d Mute
  274. Bliss says:
    @Talha

    Judaism is a branch off of Islam.

    Nonsense. What’s clear to a rational observer is that Islam is largely a ripoff of Judaism. The fact that Mohammad claimed to be a prophet in the Hebrew tradition, that he initially prostrated towards Jerusalem, that he adopted the jewish custom of circumcision and the Jewish practice of kosher cuisine, that he migrated to jewish Medina, that he tried to gain the acceptance of the jews of Medina etc, proves that.

    It was only after the jews of Medina rejected his claims that he turned his back on Jerusalem and began prostrating to the pagan temple (Kaaba) in Medina, which still contained its idols? Did that not make him a worshipper of pagan idols? Explain that away.

    What aspect of the term “Seal of the Prophets” does not compute?

    Compute this: the jews believe that the era of prophethood ended centuries before the birth of Mohammad. What you think of the prophet of the Ahmadi sect is akin to what jews think of your prophet.

    Secondly, if you actually believed that Mohammad was the final word you would be a Salafi not a Sufi. What you really are is a lying hypocrite.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Stan d Mute
  275. Frankie P says:
    @Talha

    Absoutely beautiful video and tune; I’m touched; I’m sharing immediately with friends who will also share.

    What I love the most about this song is that it is directed towards my countrymen and I: Americans.

    “Do you know the truth of where your money goes?” (Answer: no, and they don’t care.)
    “Do you let your media deceive your mind?” (Answer: undoubtedly, while believing that there own media choices are the truthful and honest ones, whether on the Fox News Right or MSNBC Left)

    “American, do you realize that the taxes that you pay feed the forces that traumatize my every living day?”
    (Discomforting, to say the least, to be faced with the reality that one is an enabler of evil, a participant, even if unwilling and unwitting.)

    Thank you, Talha. I have long enjoyed your comments.

    Frankie P

    • Replies: @Frankie P
  276. Frankie P says:
    @Frankie P

    Talha,

    What I admire the most about the video is the attitude of both the song and the delivery by the singer; there is no rage, hatred, or insanity, just a quiet resigned Sumud. A confident belief that although the oppression and injustice may continue for some time, by remaining steadfast and faithful, there will be a correction and their land and country will be returned to them. I also have this faith.

    Frankie P

    • Replies: @Talha
  277. Pope Francis is likely more familiar with Quranic verses than with Psalms 137:5, in which the exiled Jews likened forgetting Jerusalem to forgetting the function of one’s right hand. (Literally translated, it is a vow: “If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, let my right hand forget her cunning.”)

    That was in 607 BC (Before Christ), and we Jews have still not forgotten.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=295&v=kbJcQYVtZMo

  278. m.radant says:

    Too bad the Holohoax is a complete lie, because it’s such a good idea!

  279. Rixon says: • Website

    This all sounds very reasonable. Too reasonable in fact, because it in no way represents the broader Zioinist agenda. Just ask Netanyahu and his friends.

  280. Talha says:
    @Truth

    Ha ha! Those guys! I remember first seeing them when I used to make trips into South Central. There was this one park area and they had this elevated platform from which they would basically harass passersby.

    They had some pretty cool get ups though, looked like something out of Game of Thrones costumes at a Comicon. I support them, seems like a good harmless outlet for people who want to pick a fight all the time. Let’s them get that aggression out.

    Hmmm…reminds of of these forums…

    Peace.

  281. Talha says:
    @AaronB

    Definitely some similarities there. The narrative is fairly straightforward; God has been sending prophets and messengers to various people since the beginning of time; no one people has a monopoly on this. Some were successful, some weren’t. The messages were corrupted with accretions over time, but still retained some semblance of the original message.

    Some people like the narrative, some don’t – to each their own.

    Peace.

  282. Ace says:
    @jilles dykstra

    Whoa. 1,200+ years to figure out a way of clarifying land ownership and that was state-of-the-art legal thinking?

    “Carefully guarded” also covers a lot of ground in any consideration of the part Jews have played in Western life. Over-representation in the ranks of the Cheka, the Bolsheviks, and Western communist parties and leftist movements is a subject remarkable for its near complete absence from public discussion. Similarly unmentionable is Jewish political control and dominance in media ownership and the film industry.

    The “Holocaust” was real enough though I see no reason to be hypersensitive about discussion of it. At least if you’re not striving to perpetuate a lucrative victim’s status. Jews expend enormous resources to keep attention focused on “The Holocaust” but the real holocaust denial is the purposeful dead silence about the various holocausts visited on Russians, Chinese, Cambodians, and N. Koreans.

    And God help the man who suggests that Barbara Lerner Specter’s oopsie is in fact the purest distillation of the goals of institutional or organized Jewry it is possible to find. The idea that captains of industry just had to have foreign labor to drive down wages (and support white retirees) and had no idea of the enormous social and political destruction this would entail just doesn’t hold any water. The Plan is every bit as malevolent as Specter (and Frans Timmermans, not Jewish, let it be said) make clear. Every last defect of non-Jewish Westerners can be exposed and ridiculed until the cows come (or peak oil is reached) but don’t dare debate the conduct and aims of Jews if you don’t want to be listed as a “hater” by the ADL and the SPLC.

    There are, of course, righteous Jews who want no part of this but those who play a public role pay a high price so they tend keep a low profile. Where are the Benjamin Freedmans? Or is there only one version of WWI, WWII, and the destruction of the West in our time?

    This leads to brittleness in the public debate about Israel, for example, whose future looks dim. Clearly it’s an artificial state whose existence is entirely dependent on (1) military power (and (2) massive U.S. financial tribute) and, (3) according to official thinking, incessant war on its neighbors (some of whom have been guilty of their own excesses).

    But, I digress.

    • Replies: @geokat62
    , @Sam J.
  283. Talha says:
    @Bliss

    Mohammad claimed to be a prophet in the Hebrew tradition

    Wait, why would he claim to be a Hebrew? He was from the Ishmaelites; when did he claim to be from Bani Ishaac?

    that he migrated to jewish Medina, that he tried to gain the acceptance of the jews of Medina

    Not really. His first preference was actually Ta’if to the South of Makkah. He was thrown out with violence. After that, he was basically going around to the various groups at Hajj asking for anyone to take him in. The Bani Khazraj and Bani Aws (both from Madinah) were in the middle of a protracted war, they actually brought him in as an attempt to see if they could remedy the situation with a game changer. The Jews were a minority in Madinah, though disproportionately powerful due to their control of the local economy – much of this due to usurious lending. He certainly had hopes they would convert, since they were already monotheists, but hey – what’re you gonna do?

    began prostrating to the pagan temple (Kaaba) in Medina, which still contained its idols

    The Kaaba is the ancient house of worship, the foundations of which were raised by the prophets Abraham (pbuh) and Ishmael (pbuh). The pagans polluted it with idols over time; never changed its original purpose though. And it was eventually cleansed.

    the jews believe that the era of prophethood ended centuries before the birth of Mohammad

    Likely why they’re not Muslims, I mean that would be weird if they were and believed that, right? Am I right?

    Also…
    1) I’m sure when one takes a survey of people who leave Christianity, the number one thought on their mind is; Man, I just couldn’t live with the fact that Jews reject Jesus (pbuh).
    2) Again, why do we care that Jews reject the Prophet (pbuh)? Do you think that makes us worry at night?

    What you think of the prophet of the Ahmadi sect is akin to what jews think of your prophet.

    Aaaaand…?

    you would be a Salafi not a Sufi

    JazakAllahu khair Pir Saheb for setting me straight. And we know we can take your verdict on these matters seeing as you have been granted ijaza in the four major Sufi Orders from the venerable Shaikh Cracker-Jack (may God grant him a long life).

    What you really are is a lying hypocrite.

    However, your advanced degree in triggered-nometry is in no doubt.

    A question though; do you think what you are doing is helping your side? How do you think this looks to others as you try to distract the discussion repeatedly by random attacks on Islamic doctrine, peppered with insults? Are you guys so puffed up with yourselves that you don’t see how you come across to others or is it simply a healthy lack of introspection that most other people possess?

    I’d really like to know, because I find this aspect fascinating…are you actually trying to convince others of your position or win allies?

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Bliss
  284. Ace says:
    @whatgarbage

    I admire Israel for its commitment to a monoethnic Jewish state. A clear view of demographic realities and a determination not to commit ethnic and racial suicide is commendable.

    However, I wish that Israeli leaders would condemn their co-religionists in the West for working so hard and so long to make our countries the opposite of what the beloved Israel is doing. They don’t but then demand that Western countries support them financially and whatever lunatic foreign policy initiative that strikes their fancy.

    Whatgarbage contributed a lot here in pointing out exactly how maintaining an ethnostate works on the ground. It’s instructive to see what attitudes are necessary to draw the necessary lines. Of course, segregation and separation into separate communities avoids such unpleasantness, a solution that is probably in all our futures with any luck.

    Whatgarbage also provides clarity on the fundamental illogic of a claim to ownership of land by people who have no — or a spurious– claim to it.

    I don’t see whining but clarity of thinking. Or, if whatgarbage personally wants the problems described to be solved by “fairness” and “integration” at least he or she is not shy about raising harsh realities.

  285. Talha says:
    @Frankie P

    Thanks for taking the time to listen and share Frankie.

    The story behind the song is that it was originally a poem written by a young Palestinian in a desperate attempt to address the American public regarding their daily situation.

    The group Outlandish; consisting of two young Muslim and a Catholic friend put it to song.

    I also have this faith.

    Hope my friend, hope…never let a dire situation break you down that you give up on hope.

    May God forgive us our share (unintentional or not) in the oppression of others.

    Peace.

  286. Talha says:
    @Talha

    Oops! Meant “a lack of healthy introspection”…

  287. geokat62 says:
    @Ace

    The Plan is every bit as malevolent as Specter (and Frans Timmermans, not Jewish, let it be said) make clear.

    Thanks to Red Ice, we now have another name to add to this list:

    Yascha Mounk, a German born (jewish) Harvard elite insider was interviewed on German state run TV about why “evil right wing populists” are on the rise in Germany and Europe. He gives 3 reasons and either intentionally or accidentally admits “We’re trying a historically unique experiment: Transforming a mono-ethnic, mono-cultural society into a multi-ethnic one.”

    Mounk joins a long list of people who have all admitted that there is an ongoing population replacement in Europe and in countries founded by Europeans. Barbara Spectre, Gregor Gysi, Anetta Kahane, Noel Ignatiev – just to name a few – have all stated openly that there is a multicultural experiment ongoing that is about “ending Whiteness.” That means that these people are just using opportunities such as the “refugee crisis” in order to further turn European countries into multicultural ones. It’s not about helping, it’s about transforming. It’s not about low birth rates, it’s about flooding us with strangers. It’s not for economic reasons, it’s about the open air experiment of multiculturalism.

    With these lies and ulterior motives behind it, it’s doomed to fail and the people are waking up.

    Hagen’s sites: http://hagengrell.de/wp/ & https://www.youtube.com/user/iprotest…

    Here’s the link to the interview. For those who have neither the time nor the inclination to view the contents of the entire video (just under 20 mins.), I highly recommend they skip to 14:19 to view the compilation of all the people who have played a part in disclosing the contents of this nefarious plan:

  288. Bliss says:
    @Talha

    Wait, why would he claim to be a Hebrew? He was from the Ishmaelites

    How did “claimed to be a prophet in the Hebrew tradition” become “claim to be a Hebrew”? Mohammad certainly wasn’t following any known prophetic tradition of Ishmaelites.

    He certainly had hopes they would convert, since they were already monotheists, but hey – what’re you gonna do?

    As if you don’t know what Mohammad did. He killed, enslaved or exiled all the jews of Medina and stopped prostrating towards Jerusalem. And started prostrating to the Kaaba in Mecca. Proving the dictatorial arbitrariness of his behavior and teachings. This is the man who is supposed to be the ultimate role model to mankind till the Day of Judgement.

    The Kaaba is the ancient house of worship, the foundations of which were raised by the prophets Abraham (pbuh) and Ishmael (pbuh).

    This BS has been refuted but of course to no avail, a brainwashed brain is a tough nut to crack. If the Kaaba was built by Abraham the jews would know about it. They don’t so it wasn’t.

    And if it was “polluted” by the idols in it why the Hell did Mohammad prostrate towards it? That clearly made him an idol worshipper, didn’t it?

    do you think what you are doing is helping your side?

    You are the one condemning the other side to eternal torture in Hell and threatening to kill those on your side who want to leave. What I am doing is showing how deluded and dangerous you and your ilk are.

    • Replies: @Talha
  289. El'geherg says: • Website

    What an absolute joke. Until the guilt driven creation of a Jewish state after World War II it had been almost 2000 years since the Jews controlled Jerusalem. Claiming that control of Jerusalem thousands of years earlier gives Jews an inviolable claim to that city would be like descendants of the Visigoths demanding that Rome be turned over to them. We should leave our embassy where it is because the reality is that Israel is neither friend nor ally of the U.S., they are more like the lazy second cousin that is always begging you for money, except in the case of Israel we not only shower them with cash and sweetheart deals, we also go to war and pay dearly in blood and maimed Americans for their security with nothing to show in return. At least the comments are by and large calling her out for this farcical piece of fiction.

  290. wayfarer says:

    Abrahamism, enlightening humanity with its special brand of “god’s love and wisdom.”

    source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abrahamic_religions

    Israeli Warplanes Bomb Besieged Gaza Strip

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  291. renfro says:
    @jilles dykstra

    What I did not write, in Palestine there was no legal title to land.
    In the Palestinian culture the land belonged to who tilled it

    Well yes and no…the Ottoman land code said who tiled the land owned it….BUT ….they were also issued deeds.

    ”Land ownership under the British Mandate was based on the Ottoman Land Code, with additional legislation adopted during the Mandate. Under the Ottoman Code, land was classified in five categories with provisions for documentation of registration. The two basic types of land were mulk (private lands), and miri (land
    leased from the state). While the latter was subject to certain limitations, miri land was inherited, sold, and generally regarded as the land of the user. Under the code, individuals able to prove cultivation of a plot of land for 10 years or more were issued a title of ownership.

    The Mandate government also adopted measures under the 1928 Land (Settlement of Title) Ordinance for identification and registration of land according to cadastral survey. By the end of the British Mandate, titles were settled and registered on 25% of the total land area of Mandate Palestine. Five laws were adopted between 1920 and 1940 to address Palestinian Arab concerns about Jewish/Zionist land purchases in Palestine, including the eviction of agricultural tenants by mostly absentee landlords who were not Palestinian. The laws, however, failed to provide the protection that Palestinian Arabs Land Ownership in Palestine/Israel (1920-2000) demanded, often due to loopholes, which allowed individuals and agencies to circumvent the legislation. In 1938, moreover, Zionist officials were granted permission by Mandate authorities to copy land registration and taxation documents pertaining to the status of Palestinian Arab land ownership for the express purpose of facilitating Zionist land acquisition.

    When open military confrontations began in 1947-48, many Palestinian landowners were not in possession of their ownership certificates, because they had submitted them to the regional British Land Settlement Offices in Jaffa, Beersheba, Jerusalem, Tulkarem, Jenin, and Nablus. With the division of Palestine according to the cease-fire agreements in 1948-49, Palestinian landowners no longer had access to their documents, which were consequently transferred to and archived in capitals beyond their reach (London, Amman, West Jerusalem/Jaffa). Access to these archives has remained restricted until today
    http://www.badil.org/en/component/k2/item/1055-land-ownership-in-palestine.html

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  292. renfro says:
    @Tyrion 2

    Is it that the prisons are full of converts to Judaism or is it that the prisons are full of refined and sophisticated Europeans?Jews tend to do fairly well wherever they turn up, just as Muslims tend to do fairly badly.

    Because they are thieves, cons and parasites…..always have been always will be…steals from Muslims in Palestine, steals from Americans.

    NCJRS Abstract
    The document referenced below is part of the NCJRS Virtual Library collection. To conduct further searches of the collection, visit the Virtual Library. See the Obtain Documents page for direction on how to access resources online, via mail, through interlibrary loans, or in a local library.

    ” THE JEWISH CRIME RATE TENDS TO BE HIGHER THAN THAT OF NONJEWS AND OTHER RELIGIOUS GROUPS FOR WHITE-COLLAR OFFENSES, THAT IS, COMMERCIAL OR COMMERCIALLY RELATED CRIMES, SUCH AS FRAUD, FRAUDULENT BANKRUPTCY, AND EMBEZZLEMENT”

    NCJ Number: NCJ 006180
    Title: CRIMINALITY AMONG JEWS – AN OVERVIEW

  293. Hey Talha,

    “a lack of healthy introspection” is precisely what your “UMMAH” lacks. Everyone outside of Islam has huge bloody problems with it. Leave aside America and its satellite states Israel & Europe – Phillipines(Christian), Thailand(Buddhist), Burma(Buddhist), India(Hindu), China(Han), Russia(Orthodox Christian), Nigeria(Christians), Kenya(Christians)… why should these diverse races and faiths have a problem with your faith Islam? After all if every one has a problem with you you’re the problem( just like the Jews). Why these ‘bloody borders of Islam’(Samuel Huntington) – your faith’s brutal fanaticism doesn’t end here, it cannibalizes itself – look at the ‘Royal Rumble’ between Shias and Sunnis, look at the ‘Jim Crow’ treatment of the ‘Ahmediyas’ in Pakistan where to get a Passport you have to ‘Kafirize them’. Look at your history of fanaticism the ‘Khwarij’ problem. ‘

    You “Transcendental Monotheists’ (your own words) claim to have solved the mystery of Infinity – what an astonishing claim? Infinitesimals – vanishingly small particles in space and time claim to have solved the greatest mystery and try to or have killed people who claimed otherwise – why do you have apostasy or blasphemy laws in most Islamic nations – Just curb your faith’ militant fanaticism and leave us alone. We’re really sick and tired of your faith’ medieval nonsense just leave us alone.

    0

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
    , @Talha
  294. redrum says:

    This article smugly declares King David conquered Jerusalem 1,000 yrs ago. This is hotly contested by many historians. A recent study showed ALL buildings circa time of Christ were Greek style. The authors say they don’t know what a Hebrew style would be, because there is nothing there to study! So, even if (doubtful) King David controlled Jerusalem in 1 000 BC, Hebrews had left or been run out of Palestine by time of Christ.
    How many other tribes are allowed to claim land based on what happened 3,000 years ago? Look at what Israel (actually its proxy army, US/NATO) has done to Gaza strip, West Bank, Libya, Syria, Iraq and then try saying anything non-Jewish is safe in Israeli hands. When will US declare independence from Israel? The US MSM won’t even let the question be asked.

  295. renfro says:
    @Tyrion 2

    Looking at the very few European converts to Islam that don’t do it in prison, it seems that a large percentage are closeted homosexuals who historically took to Islam to have free reign of the numerous boy markets that Muslim countries have traditionally kept.

    I don’t think I’d get started on Muslim homosexuals and etc. if I were you….considering 99% of recent sexual assaulters are Jews and Jews in the news for pedophilia are way exceeding the Catholic priest scandal.

    Your culture has some severe sex problems…maybe you should lay off the porn.

    Jews and Porn

    https://www.jewishquarterly.org/issuearchive/articled325.html?articleid=38

    ”A story little told is that of Jews in Hollywood’s seedier cousin, the adult film industry. Perhaps we’d prefer to pretend that the ‘triple-exthnics’ didn’t exist, but there’s no getting away from the fact that secular Jews have played (and still continue to play) a disproportionate role throughout the adult film industry in America. Jewish involvement in pornography has a long history in the United States, as Jews have helped to transform a fringe subculture into what has become a primary constituent of Americana. These are the ‘true blue Jews’.
    Smut peddlers
    Jewish activity in the porn industry divides into two (sometimes overlapping) groups: pornographers and performers. Though Jews make up only two per cent of the American population, they have been prominent in pornography. Many erotica dealers in the book trade between 1890 and 1940 were immigrant Jews of German origin. According to Jay A. Gertzman, author of Bookleggers and Smuthounds:The Trade in Erotica, 1920-1940 (Philadelphia: University of Pennsylvania Press, 1999), ‘Jews were prominent in the distribution of gallantiana [fiction on erotic themes and books of dirty jokes and ballads], avant-garde sexually explicit novels, sex pulps, sexology, and flagitious materials’

    As ADL National Director Abraham H. Foxman commented, ‘Those Jews who enter the pornography industry have done so as individuals pursuing the American dream.’

    Sexual revolutionaries
    Extending the subversive thesis, Jewish involvement in the X-rated industry can be seen as a proverbial two fingers to the entire WASP establishment in America. Some porn stars viewed themselves as frontline fighters in the spiritual battle between Christian America and secular humanism. According to Ford, Jewish X-rated actors often brag about their ‘joy in being anarchic, sexual gadflies to the puritanical beast’. Jewish involvement in porn, by this argument, is the result of an atavistic hatred of Christian authority: they are trying to weaken the dominant culture in America by moral subversion. Astyr remembers having ‘to run or fight for it in grammar school because I was a Jew. It could very well be that part of my porn career is an “up yours” to these people’. Al Goldstein, the publisher of Screw, said (on lukeford.net), ‘The only reason that Jews are in pornography is that we think that Christ sucks. Catholicism sucks. We don’t believe in authoritarianism.’ Pornography thus becomes a way of defiling Christian culture and, as it penetrates to the very heart of the American mainstream (and is no doubt consumed by those very same WASPs), its subversive character becomes more charged. Porn is no longer of the ‘what the Butler saw’ voyeuristic type; instead, it is driven to new extremes of portrayal that stretch the boundaries of the porn aesthetic. As new sexual positions are portrayed, the desire to shock (as well as entertain) seems clear.
    It is a case of the traditional revolutionary/radical drive of immigrant Jews in America being channelled into sexual rather than leftist politics. Just as Jews have been disproportionately represented in radical movements over the years, so they are also disproportionately represented in the porn industry. Jews in America have been sexual revolutionaries. A large amount of the material on sexual liberation was written by Jews. Those at the forefront of the movement which forced America to adopt a more liberal view of sex were Jewish. Jews were also at the vanguard of the sexual revolution of the 1960s. Wilhelm Reich, Herbert Marcuse and Paul Goodman replaced Marx, Trotsky and Lenin as required revolutionary reading. Reich’s central preoccupations were work, love and sex, while Marcuse prophesied that a socialist utopia would free individuals to achieve sexual satisfaction. Goodman wrote of the ‘beautiful cultural consequences’ that would follow from legalizing pornography: it would ‘ennoble all our art’ and ‘humanize sexuality’.

    • Agree: Cloak And Dagger
  296. Islam’s theological claim on Jerusalem rests on the preposterous story that its prophet flew on a winged mule there to meet the god and numerous prophets – ridiculous bullshit. That winged mule’s name was Barak that’s right the first name of Americas first black president.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  297. Talha says:
    @Bliss

    “claimed to be a prophet in the Hebrew tradition”

    He never claimed to be a prophet in the Hebrew tradition; he affirmed the validity of the Hebrew prophets.

    Mohammad certainly wasn’t following any known prophetic tradition of Ishmaelites.

    Correct, because there were no others; he IS the prophetic tradition of the Ishmaelites:
    “A revelation from the Almighty, Most Merciful. So that you may warn a people whose forefathers were not warned, and so are heedless.” (36:5-6)

    Just like the prophet Huud (pbuh) who was an Arabian prophet (most likely from Yemen) mentioned in the Qur’an that has no mention in the Bible and no direct connection with the Hebrew prophets.

    He killed, enslaved or exiled all the jews of Medina

    No, not all – there are accounts of Jews residing in Madinah well into the fourth Rashidun Caliph, Ali (ra). But the majority? Yes. You seem to come from the perspective of, when something bad happens to the Jews, everyone else is at fault. That doesn’t work with us. Certainly there have been terrible and unjustifiable pogroms of Jews (and Christians) historically in Muslim lands, but when you are dealing with a messenger of God, you do not do something over-the-top stupid like; challenge his authority militarily after you have committed to recognizing him as sovereign, helping and riling up his enemies, etc. God does not take kindly to such actions and reserves the right to discipline you.

    This is the man who is supposed to be the ultimate role model to mankind till the Day of Judgement.

    Now we’re talkin’!

    If the Kaaba was built by Abraham the jews would know about it.

    Why/ Their narrative is mostly about themselves, not much is mentioned about Ishmael (pbuh). Sure there are certain things mentioned in the Psalms 84 about pilgrimage through the Valley of Bakkah (which is the same ancient name the Qur’an gives for Makkah), but this may be a mere coincidence or not.

    They don’t so it wasn’t.

    “They don’t believe Jesus (pbuh) spoke the truth, so he didn’t.” See what I did there? Nobody is holding their breath waiting for approval from Jews.

    And if it was “polluted” by the idols in it why the Hell did Mohammad prostrate towards it?

    Because pollution doesn’t change the intrinsic nature of a thing. A shirt with a stain can be worn and still serve its intended purpose.

    That clearly made him an idol worshipper, didn’t it?

    Logic fail; no more than Jews praying in the direction of the Temple Mount, that has a mosque on it, makes them Muslims.

    You are the one condemning the other side to eternal torture in Hell

    Nope, waaaaay above my pay grade. God does the condemning to Hell, we just teach what we’ve been taught about how to avoid ending up in it. Take it up with Him, don’t shoot the messenger.

    and threatening to kill those on your side who want to leave

    If one has kept up with what is happening at the conferences of some of the top ulema in the Muslim world, then one knows that many are calling for; 1) a moratorium on the rule due to wide abuse, 2) trying to revive certain minority opinions (from extinct schools) that call for no punishment and 3) interpreting the law in context of the realities of the modern nation-state. This is not unprecedented, the Ottomans had already started doing this in the Mejelle (Mecelle) in the codification of law in line with modern legal context. A good read on the subject from the Hanafi school perspective is here:

    https://ramonharvey.com/2011/07/29/al-sarakhsis-interpretation-of-apostasy-in-islam/

    What does the future hold? Since there is always room for difference of opinion; this will reform the law in certain countries while other countries will keep things as they are; so one can take the issue up with them. I am certainly not baying for the blood of apostates; let them go and have fun.

  298. @renfro

    I mentioned Palestinian culture, not what Ottomans or British imposed.

    • Replies: @renfro
  299. @geokat62

    The plan is no longer a plan, or nefarious.
    Demographic calculations show that even if immigration into Europe stops completely now, in 30 or 40 years time some 40% of the people in Europe will be Muslims.
    And there is Merkel’s recent statement ‘they’re already here’.
    What the purpose is, one can only guess.
    Hatred of white people ?; revenge ?; or the jewish idea that they’re safe in multicultural states ?
    If it is the last reason, French jews are leaving France in great numbers.
    But, some jews resist, forgot the name, but a German jew writes in Germany that Merkel is importing antisemitism.
    Will try to find the link.

  300. Sam J. says:
    @Art

    Jews Must Never Forget Trump for Remembering Our Unforgettable Jerusalem

    They won’t forget Trump. They will stab him in the back just like everyone else that deals with them.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  301. Sam J. says:
    @Talha

    I don’t care if Muslims are dysfunctional or not it doesn’t make Jews any better. It doesn’t make Jews desirable people. It’s actually not a choice at except for Jews who to cloud the issue of their malfeasance, deception and horrible behavior. We should get rid of both of them. They deserve each other.

  302. Sam J. says:
    @annamaria

    “…“Having gays parading around the streets is distasteful. Throwing them off buildings as your lot are wont to do is horrific.”…”

    It’s an either or issue but if I had a choice I’d rather hang around people that throw homosexuals off buildings than have people around who blow up our buildings like on 9-11 and involve us in numerous wars not in our interest.

  303. Tyrion 2 says:
    @Talha

    I don’t think that there is anything unreasonable in pointing out that Muslims have contributed little given their proportion of the world’s population. Nor is it unreasonable to wish this remedied.

    Indeed since the first is an obvious and extremely stark fact, as per Murray’s Human Achievement, and the second is a kind and positive wish, your continual resorting to obfuscation, insult and threat, along with the chiming in of some of the clearly illiterate among your co-religionists, reflects very poorly on you.

    I won’t take one of your actions and spin it into a character indictment though. So let me ask again, how are Sunni Muslim countries to go about breaking an at least millennia long non-achievement streak? Because: wouldn’t that be wonderful?

    Of course such a thing would benefit Israel. Hence your suspicion. But then the whole point of an unalloyed good is that it is unalloyed…

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @AaronB
    , @Art
    , @annamaria
  304. @geokat62

    “We’re trying a historically unique experiment: Transforming a mono-ethnic, mono-cultural society into a multi-ethnic one.”

    I guess the moron never heard the word “empire.”

    Heaven help us.

  305. @Grahamsno(G64)

    Everyone outside of Islam has huge bloody problems with it.

    Not true. I’m not a Muslim but I have always been favorably impressed with every Muslim I’ve ever met, both at home and abroad, and that includes complete strangers as well as coworkers and others whom I count as friends.

    Leave aside America and its satellite states Israel & Europe – Phillipines(Christian),

    The bloody problems in the Philippines originated as a result of the Spanish “Christian” conquest and invasion ~ 500 years ago and continue to this day. The government of the Philippines even actively encouraged “Christians” to move to Mindanao to displace the Muslims there. Furthermore, the population problems in the Phils are undoubtedly exacerbated by the intentional encouragement to produce large “Christian” families for obvious reasons.

    If you want to talk bloody, google the horrific actions of the Americans there ~120 years ago. In particular, investigate the hideous slaughter of Muslim women and children by Amerikans, in places like Bud Jolo and Bud Bagsak to name just two examples.

    It appears that you’ve confused the sources of the bloodiness.

    • Agree: renfro
  306. @Grahamsno(G64)

    Islam’s theological claim on Jerusalem rests on the preposterous story …

    That area seems to be rife with preposterous stories, some even including talking asses (not Netanyahoo in this case) that pre-date Islam.

    The Angel and Balaam’s Donkey
    …27When the donkey saw the angel of the LORD, she lay down under Balaam; so Balaam was angry and struck the donkey with his stick. 28And the LORD opened the mouth of the donkey, and she said to Balaam, “What have I done to you, that you have struck me these three times?” 29

    https://biblehub.com/numbers/22-28.htm

    So, your point was…?

  307. @Talha

    ” We’ve got time, we’re not going anywhere – we’ll wait…and fight. Your move…”

    That’s pretty much everyone’s response to the current Jewish order. All they can really do is try to have everyone else at one another’s throats, and in one another’s lands.

  308. Talha says:
    @Tyrion 2

    insult

    Really? Tea calling the pot black? Go up the thread and see how things started. Please show everyone where I’ve been insulting you. People are observing.

    threat

    Correct. Learn to share sovereignty of the City of Jerusalem or try to annex it by force in complete violation of international obligations and see what happens. We are not pacifists, we’ve been busting heads for our claim to a share of that city for centuries and we aren’t about to stop now. Did Jews ever field a single army against the Crusaders? The Mongols? You could probably pull that off with the Christian world, we don’t play that game. Your move…

    ask again, how are Sunni Muslim countries to go about breaking an at least millennia long non-achievement streak?

    Waaaay too long of a projection, there were scientists in the Ottoman era making advances – look up Ali Qushji or read the works of George Saliba of Columbia University who is an expert on the latest scientific manuscript evidence from the Muslim world:

    http://www.columbia.edu/cu/mesaas/faculty/directory/saliba.html

    But I’m not sure how long it’ll take to meet your approval…I ask again, why is this relevant to the Israeli bid for sole sovereignty of Jerusalem?

  309. Tyrion 2 says:
    @Talha

    And here we have the end of the discussion. I don’t know if you believe that Muslims have really contributed their fair share to human development. Your arguments are so thin that I can’t believe they persuade even you.

    To summarise where my point has been going:

    Were Muslims to remove their own obstacles to making their culture great they would also naturally see a lot of inspiration in their neighbour Israel. Were they to choose reality over default Islamic supremacy/closed-minded mafia style behaviour then they’d see Israel as legitimately sovereign over Jerusalem. And even if not, they’d see their own ridiculous backwardness as a problem of far greater priority.

    The spectacle of Muslim hysteria over Israel while ignoring the continual catastrophes in their own countries is the cause of its problem.

    • Replies: @Talha
  310. @renfro

    With spiritual power, renfro wrote: “Palestinian Christians call themselves ‘living stones’ there, a term our media will never use as it publicizes their long long history there as the first Christians. Palestinian Bishop Ramzi R. Musallam: “I support Palestine the first land that accepted Jesus and followed Him. Palestine will be protected by Christ.”

    Hi renfro,

    Regret that I just read your comment # 18 because I tried to avoid Mercer’ s prejudiced & & typically triumphalist Amerikan article.

    To start, in January 1981 I visited West Bank areas and while in Bethlehem I was informed by an enthusiastic native Christian fellow that his people refer to themselves as “Living Stones.” I asked him “why is that?”

    Reply was, “Do you remember the Gospel part where Jesus said to people about the Truth? He explained how “Even the stones will speak.”

    F.Y.I., on Saturday November 18, 2017, Palestinian Archbishop Ramzi R. Musallam was in Scranton and co-celabrated Divine Liturgy at a small mission Church for the poor & outcasts, located on the corner of Main and Jackson street.

    At present I am waiting to meet with the Archbishop and discuss a possible service (mission) for me in service to the Palestinian Orthodox Church. Ramzi is aware of my willingness to “relocate” including faraway places such as Hebron.

    Thanks very much for your rock solid words, renfro.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
    , @renfro
  311. @Sam J.

    They won’t forget Trump. They will stab him in the back just like everyone else that deals with them.

    Spot on and frikkin brilliant!

  312. @Talha

    But I’m not sure how long it’ll take to meet your approval…

    Such approval will never be granted because apparently some people suffer from a chronic need to feel superior to others even if it’s “stolen” superiority based on what group a person chooses to identify with.

    I suspect that most of these people are mousey little ignorami who never have and never will accomplish anything of value, and they compulsively and uselessly obsess over it.

    I ask again, why is this relevant to the Israeli bid for sole sovereignty of Jerusalem?

    Don’t bother asking; they rarely, if ever deal with anything of substance. The “akkomplushment” obsession is a red herring as well. I wonder, but can’t say I care, what it thinks the Zionists have accomplished.

  313. jacques sheete says:
    February 25, 2018 at 10:59 am GMT • 200 Words
    @Grahamsno(G64)
    Everyone outside of Islam has huge bloody problems with it.

    Not true. I’m not a Muslim but I have always been favorably impressed with every Muslim I’ve ever met, both at home and abroad, and that includes complete strangers as well as coworkers and others whom I count as friends.

    Sorry Jacques Sheete my reply button just doesn’t work some weird quirk of Windows 7 still on my computer.

    I work in the Oil industry and have been blessed to be an expat who has worked in numerous Muslim countries. I was(am) an outspoken atheist who told them that I didn’t believe in their bullshit, they couldn’t believe that I hadn’t a religion, strangely they always talked to me and treated me with great respect – as one of them said that if he converted me to Islam he would win a million brownie points converting this rebellious son of a bitch. When you probe them which I did on ample occasions you find ‘might is right brutal fanaticism’ because their warlord prophet commanded it. Can you imagine Buddha or Christ commanding to ‘Kill them wherever you find them.?’ The world has a problem with Islam and the posters here think that America’s problem with these brutal fanatics will disappear after cutting the umbilical cord to (Israel) which allows the American ‘Mini Me’ to survive – No absolutely not Islam is a militant proselytizing medieval faith which shouldn’t be absolutely allowed to migrate to the west.

    Remove the hatred of Jews the glasses through which you view this problem and you will see that Islam is a huge problem wherever they are amassed in numbers – just ask the various different civilizations who encountered its ‘mercy.’

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
    , @renfro
  314. @wayfarer

    Ilana’s favorite Psalm expresses three connected thoughts:

    She stated the one that Jews like to repeat in public.
    Here are the other two:

    There on the poplars
    we hung our harps,
    for there our captors asked us for songs,
    our tormentors demanded songs of joy;
    they said, “Sing us one of the songs of Zion!”
    How can we sing the songs of the Lord
    while in a foreign land?

    Think about the importance of song: the Orpheus myth teaches us that music has the power to heal and to save; Roger Scruton says:
    Music comes out of our desire to dance, to sing, to get along with each other, and get rid of that and you’ve as it were destroyed the whole social implication of music.

    Jews like Ilana Mercer are not interested in “getting along,” or healing and saving.

    They are bent on revenge of the most brutal kind, as the last part of Psalm 137 proclaims:

    Daughter Babylon, doomed to destruction,
    happy is the one who repays you
    according to what you have done to us.
    Happy is the one who seizes your infants
    and dashes them against the rocks.

    What a nice prayer, Ilana; thanks for sharing.

    But there’s more to this little peek into the murderous prayers of the Chosenites:

    The great choral centerpiece of Verdi’s “Nabucco” is based on Psalm 137, but Verdi reworked it.

    Here’s how Verdi’s Ps. 137 sounds:

    Here are the words, in English:

    Where Mercer notes that
    “the exiled Jews likened forgetting Jerusalem to forgetting the function of one’s right hand. (Literally translated, it is a vow: “If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, let my right hand forget her cunning.”)
    That was in 607 BC (Before Christ), and we Jews have still not forgotten,”

    Italians sing,

    Hasten thoughts on golden wings.
    Hasten and rest on the densely wooded hills,
    where warm and fragrant and soft
    are the gentle breezes of our native land!

    O, my homeland, so beautiful and lost!
    Oh mia Patria sì bella e perduta!
    O memories, so dear and yet so deadly!

    Nothing about “cunning.”

    Where Jews “hang up their harps” and refuse both to exert effort toward their own healing and salvation and to attempt to “get along with each other,” preferring instead to nurture brutal revenge fantasies — that have been made real– Italians sing:

    Golden harp of our prophets,
    why do you hang silently on the willow?
    Rekindle the memories of our hearts,
    and speak of the times gone by!

    (in this FlashMob performance of Verdi’s version of Psalm 137, notice how the crowd raise voices and arms to the heavens on this passage (@ 2.08):

    Arpa d’or dei fatidici vati,
    perché muta dal salice pendi?

    And the third segment, the conclusion of Psalm 137
    The Jewish version:

    happy is the one who repays you
    according to what you have done to us.
    Happy is the one who seizes your infants
    and dashes them against the rocks.

    Verdi’s version:

    permit the Lord to inspire us
    with manly courage to endure our suffering!

    See the difference?

    Jews say, “We will spend the next 1500 years plotting how to kill your children,” while the Italians, for whom Va, Pensiero, is an unofficial national anthem, sing, “give us the courage to endure our suffering and to revitalize our beautiful homeland, “si bella et perduta”.

    Next time someone utters the obscenity, “Judeo-Christian,” grab a bar of Naphtha soap and put it to work.

    • Replies: @mcohen
    , @renfro
    , @wayfarer
  315. Rurik says:
    @Talha

    Hello Talha,

    As I generally just read your posts (always with pleasure) I’d prefer to stay out of the theological conversations, because for one, I know so little about them, and also because they don’t necessarily impact the things I’m writing about (anti-war, for instance).

    Zionism is different however, because it underlies the motivations for why the US was dragged into the World Wars, all the way to 9/11 and why my nation has committed atrocities on Israel’s behalf as a result of that event.

    So even as I agree with many of your points, (and as always admire your style and eloquence) while staying out of the theological quagmires (as I see them ; ), I do occasionally read something that makes me wince. And not just from you, but from another eloquent poster, AaronB.

    Israel seems to me like some dream conjured up by a bunch of secular ethno-nationalists that weren’t even native to the place. Its a European thing (tied up in the whole notion of the ethno-nation-state), like you mentioned, the Mizrahis would never have come up with the scheme. It’s like communism or something; completely idealistic, bereft of a historical understanding (or even knowledge), with no vision of the long term future.

    specifically what I have trouble with is the relentless maligning of Western civilization and its people, as somehow flawed for the universal aspiration to persevere, as Western civilization, and the people for whom it suits.

    The idea of an ‘ethno-nation-state’ is hardly an uniquely European thing (and hardly like communism, quite the opposite!). And they certainly didn’t invent it.

    Europeans are a minority on the planet, and every other race or ethnic group have all historically and currently practice a form of ‘ethno-nation-state. Japan is not a multi-racial state. Neither is Korea or the Philippines or just about every nation on the planet. They nearly all have a common ethnicity and tradition and culture. Mexico does not allow Guatemalans to immigrate in significant numbers just as the Dominican Republic enforces (with good reason) its border with Haiti.

    Indeed, it seems there is only one race/ethnicity on the planet that are supposed to move aside in their own ancient lands- as unlimited numbers of foreigners move in and transform their homes into something they don’t recognize.

    And I can’t help but wonder if there’s a movement afoot to destroy within them the universal aspiration for a homeland, (self-determination) for the myriad reasons of those who would like see them overrun.

    If you told the blacks of Zimbabwe that their efforts to create an ethno-nation-state are misguided, they’d laugh in your face. Especially if they’re living in one of the formerly white-owned houses that their black ethno-aspirations have confiscated from the white people who built it, but then who lost their ethno-will to preserve. And why? Because they were harangued by others for the “evil” of wanting to live in an ethno-state of their own, and now have been ethnically cleansed by others whose desire for an ethno-state is stronger, and unencumbered by ethno-second guessing of themselves and wallowing in guilt for their “racism”. Fat lot of good it’s doing them now, huh?

    The idea that the ethno-nation state is an uniquely “European thing” is absurd. The only thing unique about an ethno-nation state vis-à-vis Europe, is that it is Europe (and all white, Western nations) that are maligned and berated day in, day out for the perfectly normal and healthy and universal desire to maintain what and who they are. So that their children and grandchildren will grow up and share their values and culture and heritage, and pass it down.

    Is that so terribly evil Talha?

    The reason Zionism is different, is because they’re not trying to maintain anything. What they’re tying to do is use terror (and murder and torture and daily humiliations/atrocities) to steal what other people’s nation and homeland. To destroy the Palestinians ethno-nation-state, and replace it with their own.

    Much like what the blacks of Zimbabwe did to the whites, just as the blacks of S. Africa are getting ready to do to the whites there. And why? Because they (understandably) want their own ethno-nation-state (self-determination). But for that to happen, they have to first destroy the Dutch/English ethno-nation-state. And how did they go about setting that in motion? By calling the white people ‘racist’ and evil and maligning their character for the simple and universal and understandable desire to have a nation and a home of their own. A place for their children to grow up, and not be killed by rival ethnics who want their land and their homes for themselves.

    If you wanted to tell the Palestinians that their desire to maintain a national home with a distinct (if mixed) ethnicity and culture and heritage is wrong, and that if they weren’t so racist and parochial, (acting European) they’d repudiate any desire to maintain their identity, and embrace the newcomers, even if they’re occasionally hostile or unpleasant. It’s all worth it to dismantle the evil of the ethno-nation-state.. and embrace the changes that the newcomers bring.

    Whether you’re a Palestinian, or a German or S. African. Wanting to protect and nourish and maintain your identity for posterity- is not wrong and misguided (or evil), and it’s certainly not unique to Europeans. But it is Europeans (and Palestinians) who are uniquely expected to hand over their lands to others- intent on their own ethno-hegemony, so that they can eventually dominate the former inhabitants and replace their ethnicity (and culture and traditions and heritage) with something that suits the ethnicity (and culture and religion, etc..) of the newcomers better. While perhaps maintaining a certain percentage of the former inhabitants as cheap labor, etc…

    The key to peace, IMHO, is respecting all people’s right and will to self-determination. In their own ethno-nation-states, which in turn respect all other people’s right to an ethno-nation-state of their own.

    If people don’t like that kind of life, they can move to Hong Kong, or California (or pine for the days of the Ottoman Empire ; ). But for those who do, it’s not racist (or European) to demand to maintain and pass down your identity and way of life.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
    , @Talha
  316. Sam J. says:
    @Alden

    “…Betnahuyu was talking about taking over Ukraine as a refuge recently…”

    I thought from the very beginning when the Jews took over Ukraine that it was for a “plan B” back up.

    • Replies: @annamaria
  317. Sam J. says:
    @Tyrion 2

    “…Southern Lebanese threw rice at the incoming Israelis to welcome them…”

    And what did the Jews do? They stabbed them in the back like they do everyone. The only reasonable response to Jews is to get rid of them. Move them away from you by any means possible.

  318. Sam J. says:
    @Ace

    “…Every last defect of non-Jewish Westerners can be exposed and ridiculed until the cows come (or peak oil is reached) but don’t dare debate the conduct and aims of Jews if you don’t want to be listed as a “hater” by the ADL and the SPLC…”

    This is exactly true and the long studied interaction of Jews in other populations is they always stab the people in the back where they live. The only know 100% method of dealing with the Jews is to get rid pf them. Move them away form you and allow no intercourse with them. This has been proven to work many times in the past and to bring about great benefits to all who have done so.

    • Replies: @Ace
  319. jacques sheete says:
    February 24, 2018 at 12:39 pm GMT • 200 Words
    @Grahamsno(G64)
    “The Holocaust should be studied as exhibit A in the abuse of history for propagandistic purposes .

    True.

    The troll who extols the “akkomplushments” is probably referring to that or 9/11 or the like. Even I have to admit that they really accomplished something by pulling such gags on us dumb goyim.

    Goebbels would have been in awe of this myth.

    There can be no doubt that he was in awe of the big lie. The Nazis were propaganda pikers compared with the Brits, the Reds, and the Zionists, all of whom had a lot more experience and expertise with propaganda than Germany could ever dream of.”

    Can you imagine this pile of bullshit, since 2004 I’ve been reading this sob story that’s right reading this because I’m an avid history buff, I never read the revisionists because I thought that they were total crackpots, I was annoyed by ‘Wally’ who always spams ‘CODOH’ and I clicked his links and read the books for a month – and I was totally shocked – stunned that there was so little proof for the greatest crime in history – (I’m not Christian or Jewish or Muslim) – I have no dog in this fight – I’m just like you a reader of history – and there I’m totally stunned – jaw droppingly stunned – TASER stunned to find out that there was no order, plan, budget, or an overall organization in charge (Hilberg) no gas chamber blue print ever discovered(Robert Faurisson), no gas traces ever discovered(Leuchter, Germar) and no mass graves like Katyn or Srebenica ever discovered when there should have been hundreds of them – it was totally shocking and what disproved the story was that they they threw revisionists into prison for doubting this story – if they can lie to us about the ‘Holocaust’ they can lie about anything.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
    , @Moi
  320. @Rurik

    Eloquent, as usual.

    Thank you.

  321. @ChuckOrloski

    Thanks very much for your rock solid words, renfro.

    I second that and I also thank you for your presence here, CO!

  322. Sam J. says:
    @geokat62

    “… The Plan is every bit as malevolent as Specter (and Frans Timmermans, not Jewish, let it be said) make clear….”

    “…Mounk joins a long list of people who have all admitted that there is an ongoing population replacement in Europe and in countries founded by Europeans. Barbara Spectre, Gregor Gysi, Anetta Kahane, Noel Ignatiev – just to name a few – have all stated openly that there is a multicultural experiment ongoing that is about “ending Whiteness.” That means that these people are just using opportunities such as the “refugee crisis” in order to further turn European countries into multicultural ones…”

    There is no living with these people the Jews. The only known method proven 100% to deal with them is to get rid of them. We’ve tried everything else. All these maneuvers and actions we’re supposed to do to deal with the Jews just sap the energy of the people. It’s much easier to just get rid of them. What solution are we going to find to deal with them that hundreds of others nations have not over thousands of years? It’s either us or them. They will push this until in the US and Europe there is a Balkans super ethic war. We need to get rid of the Jews and clean their mess up before this happens.

  323. pilgrim says:

    My Kingdom is not of this world Jesus Christ said quite clearly to those that call themselves jews and are not .
    You say you want the world “jerusalem” then the Love of the Eternal SPIRIT which is the Living Creator is not in you according to the bible

    Man made religions are a joke , wether islam which answers to fake jerusalm which now is , judaism ,

    No man has had pure religion on this earth for some 2000 years

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  324. @Grahamsno(G64)

    Remove the hatred of Jews the glasses through which you view this problem and you will see that Islam is a huge problem wherever they are amassed in numbers – just ask the various different civilizations who encountered its ‘mercy.’

    I don’t hate anyone (except most assholes in power, and if they’re in power, they’re assholes) and honestly, I never had much bad feeling toward Jews in general until I started “communicating” with the Izzy firsters and other Zionist primitives. I used to get along fine with Jews and still do, but like I said, the Izzy-nuts have soured my approach to them a tad and I have become far less tolerant of any bullshit that comes from them.

    The problem characters certainly seem to infest and infect all Abrahamic sects if what you’re saying is correct about Muslims.

    Christians and Jews have some real ‘splainin to do for their behavior, and a lot of them should feel damned happy that I’m not Gawd de Father!!!!

    Forgiveness, my tuschie!

  325. @pilgrim

    Man made religions are a joke…

    I’d extend the complaint to pretty much everything humans do.

    In fact, Christ himself came to try and save a few from what the corrupted religion of the Pharisees if I remember correctly.

    The OT prophets told us all we need to know about the subject since nothing’s changed.

  326. Sam J. says:

    I think it’s absolutely great, fantastic, that Trump recognized the capital of Israel in Jerusalem. It will just increase hatred of the Jews. It will clue people in to their malevolence even more.

  327. @Talha

    I really admire your calm and rational approach to discourse and wish I had your skills!

  328. AaronB says:
    @Tyrion 2

    It looks like Muslims contributed as much as any other civilization until post 1500 Europe, which is a black swan event. So I’m not quite sure a what you’re getting at.

    Jews played a minor supporting role in European civilization for about the past 150 years, but their main impressive achievement is wealth acquisition and lately, social technique.

    Either way, Jewish achievement is recent, brief – piggybacking on European accomplishments and general culture and inconceivable outside of it, that is to say, not an original creation of the Jewish genius – and already declining, and whats more, it was narrow – unimpressive in art, music, philosophy, literature, poetry, as well as deficient in engineering and technology creation – the two pillars of the modern world probably requirig the grwater expenditure of intellect.

    This isnt very impressive by any measure, and let’s remember, the Jews are currently in their “peak” phase – the burst of energy and creativity that all groups experience at some point in their history, before declining.

    It does not seem to me that “peak Jew” compares favorably to “peak Europe”, or “peak Islam”.

    If we could define the Jewish genius, it would be chiefly about wealth acquisition, then technique for social control, and finally a minor though significant supporting role in a few specific fields like theoretical science and computer science, where Jewish contributions have not been insignificant – but also which, occurred within cultural forms created by another people.

    I think reality is far more fascinating than narcissistic fantasy, so it’s important to get the Jewish phenomena right.

    Jewish specialization in money and social technique is a fascinating phenomena in its own right but it doesn’t help if we pretend it’s sonething else.

    Your inability to see history outside of a tribal lens, and as anything other than the typically Jewish pastime of competitive score keeping, is blinding you to a much more fascinating reality than what is revealed by your narcissism.

    Now, in terms of pre-modern civilizations, which focus on a harmonious and pleasing way of life, art, architecture, beauty, philosophy, poetry, and the like – in other words, the arts of happiness, pleasure, and contemplation, in contrast to modern civilization which focuses on the arts of domination and conquest, of the natural world primarily, the Jews are notably deficient, while Islam places very well in this regard.

    Of course, values are subjective, but it’s important to get the facts straight.

    • Agree: Cloak And Dagger
    • Troll: Tyrion 2
    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  329. DaveE says:

    Da’ Fact: If you condensed the history of Jerusalem down to one 24 hour day, the “Jews” ruled it for approximately twelve minutes. Mighty impressive for people hand-selected by Yhwy (Yhwh?) itself.

    I’ve read some real garbage by this author, but this one is beyond words.

    However, Ms. Mercer puts her Jewish pathology on full display, for all the world to see, if they care to. For that I thank her. The world will be facing bitter facts, soon, and pieces like this help immensely.

  330. Cloak And Dagger’s epiphany:
        Musicians that only play a single note are usually trolls or shills.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  331. Art says:
    @Tyrion 2

    So let me ask again, how are Sunni Muslim countries to go about breaking an at least millennia long non-achievement streak?

    Oh’ – we see how it works – Sunni folks are a little slow – so Jews get to torture Palestinian children.

    There is zero justification for Israel’s actions. Using jets to bomb Gaza is totally immoral. Squatting is stealing.

    Jew – the focus is on YOU. Your evil is catching up with you. 7,000,000,000 people voted against you in the UN.

    “JEW” is on the tip of the tongue of America’s good folks.

    You had better redouble your hasbara efforts to shroud, obscure, and change the subject away from Jew wrong doing.

    Think Peace — Art

  332. mcohen says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    Can i use your post in a comedy routine.very funny.

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  333. You had better redouble your hasbara efforts to shroud, obscure, and change the subject away from Jew wrong doing.

    Please don’t.

  334. @Grahamsno(G64)

    …if they can lie to us about the ‘Holocaust’ they can lie about anything.

    They can and do, consistently and repeatedly. And historically. I now consider anything they say to be a lie until proven otherwise. Their own book has good advice, and even commandments against the problem.

    These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

    Proverbs 6:16-19

    Apparently they’ve had a lot of practice and even their own Gawd hasn’t been able to change ‘em.

  335. renfro says:
    @jilles dykstra

    You said two separate things…

    in Palestine there was no legal title to land.

    and

    In the Palestinian culture the land belonged to who tilled it

    I was actually responding to the issue of land titles…..AND..in which the Ottomans did recognize Palestine culture by giving titles to those who had titled the land for a period of time.

    So what’s your problem.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  336. @AaronB

    All is impressively well stated.

  337. @Cloak And Dagger

    Cloak And Dagger’s epiphany:
    Musicians that only play a single note are usually trolls or shills.

    Or mephitic fartistes…

  338. renfro says:
    @Talha

    I ask again, why is this relevant to the Israeli bid for sole sovereignty of Jerusalem?

    As far as I can see its not relevant…..Tyrion monkey is just chattering and beating his cheat pretending to be a Silverback.
    Quit throwing him bananas.

  339. renfro says:
    @ChuckOrloski

    At present I am waiting to meet with the Archbishop and discuss a possible service (mission) for me in service to the Palestinian Orthodox Church.

    I hope it comes thru CO, with your kind of intellect and attitude evidenced in your comments here I can’t think of anyone who would be more suited and a bigger asset to that kind of mission.
    Will keep my fingers crossed for you.

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  340. renfro says:
    @Grahamsno(G64)

    Can you imagine Buddha or Christ commanding to ‘Kill them wherever you find them.?’

    Can you imagine a God who commanded his disciple to kill his only son?
    Get outta here with this hypocritical crap.

  341. @mcohen

    day late and dollar short, mcohen; one of your fellows has already claimed Verdi for Jewish purposes.

    I don’t think I’ll disclose the full situation; it’s too unpleasant to contemplate.
    Besides, I like to keep an arrow or two in my quiver.

  342. @renfro

    Yes, bona fortuna, Chuck Orloski, and godspeed.

  343. @Talha

    Likely, though it’s great to see the reaction in its unadulterated, pure, tribal glory!

    Agreed. It is both amusing and confirming.

  344. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Talha

    When the British were in Jerusalem it wasn’t exactly Arab action which expelled them.

    That’s enough “Yo’ mama” from me today.

    • Replies: @Talha
  345. @whatgarbage

    I like to avoid the rather peculiar whine about what the Jews and christians believe. The fact is they believe it. screaming to high heaven that it’s a myth, false, yada yada . . . ignores the reality at what’s at play. It’s as fruitful as trying to explain the existence of God to people who claim no such being exists.

    Scripture, as mythical as it may be to some, states this admonition,

    “Only a fool says in his heart, there is not God.”

    Believing in God is a matter of choice. The fact one doesn’t isn’t going to effectively address the issues of those that do, by telling them are dumb for believing. Understanding the religious issues helps understand the motivations, spending an inordinate amount of time telling people their motivations are just stupid isn’t going to get one much ground. Unless you comprehend the matter well enough to use the very motivations as wedge.

    The contention about the existence of Solomon’s and king David’s palaces / temples is not in dispute. There is ample evidence to support that they did. The debate is about where there exist as to their exact dimensions and location in relation to the site in question.

    https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/biblical-sites-places/temple-at-jerusalem/contested-temple-mount-history/

    http://www.timesofisrael.com/archaeologists-reveal-first-solomons-temple-era-artifacts-ever-found-on-temple-mount/

    http://www.historynet.com/first-jewish-roman-war-siege-of-jerusalem.htm

    hardly indicative of a literary trope:

    https://www.bricecjones.com/blog/emperor-claudius-letter-to-the-alexandrian-embassy

    Since the even the Romans acknowledged an Israeli state, it’s a strange place to argue, the matter as merely literary or mythical.

    Note: I do not contend that issues of the sacred are valid enough case to claim a state without recognition by the Us or other assembled members of the international community. And i accept that Great Britain was the duly recognized authority in Palestine and their right to had said management /authority to the UN.

  346. L.K says:

    This “article” by Ilana Mercer is a grotesque tissue of LIES.

    Pure Zionist garbage. These people lie as easily as most folks walk or breathe.

    I just don’t see the point of this being published here. After all, it is not like Zionism lacks access to Media!! They largely own it!

    • Replies: @Moi
    , @Art
    , @jacques sheete
  347. Moi says:
    @L.K

    I too had the same thoughts. There was so many lies that I got tired to even think of responding to them.

    • Replies: @renfro
  348. Moi says:
    @Grahamsno(G64)

    “There can be no doubt that he was in awe of the big lie. The Nazis were propaganda pikers compared with the Brits, the Reds, and the Zionists, all of whom had a lot more experience and expertise with propaganda than Germany could ever dream of.”

    And I thought we in the US were best at propaganda/bs–but then only because of who controls our media.

  349. Talha says:
    @Anon

    Yeah but that was an eventuality anyway, it’s not like they (or the French or Italians) stayed anywhere else in the Middle East that they occupied at the time.

    • Replies: @Anon
  350. Z-man says:
    @snag

    Yes thanks, interesting stuff.

    • Agree: SolontoCroesus
    • Replies: @snag
  351. Talha says:
    @Tyrion 2

    And here we have the end of the discussion.

    Probably shouldn’t have lasted this long anyway.

    Your arguments are so thin that I can’t believe they persuade even you.

    Yeah, but here is the problem; who are you, why should we care what you state? So you are not satisfied with my answers – so what?

    You might be paid hasbara or you might be an inmate at an insane asylum that got hold of a laptop. We have no clue. You’ve simply been offering your opinion on various things. Maybe your opinion is important to your wife and kids, but I’m neither.

    I have referenced plenty of non-Muslim academics – Jews themselves – that have recognized the debt their own tradition owes to the Islamic culture.

    Do you even have a clue who Franz Rosenthal was? The man I referenced, who wrote a book about Islamic Civilization called “Knowledge Triumphant”?
    “Franz Rosenthal, the Sterling Professor Emeritus of Arabic at Yale University, died on April 8 in Branford, CT., after a long illness. ‘Franz Rosenthal was a man of total intellectual integrity, a renowned interpreter of Islamic religion and Arabic literature, a leading scholar of Aramaic and a personal friend, to be admired and emulated,’ said William Hallo, a long-time colleague.”

    https://news.yale.edu/2003/04/15/memoriam-franz-rosenthal-87

    Were they to choose reality over default Islamic supremacy/closed-minded mafia style behaviour then they’d see Israel as legitimately sovereign over Jerusalem.

    Yeah – we’re only right if we agree that you are right. As I said before to G_R; I’m for a more equitable internationalization of the city to resolve matters without bloodshed.

    But apparently, that’s not good enough for people like you – you insist we have to secure our rights the hard way. Fine by us.

    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
  352. Art says:
    @L.K

    This “article” by Ilana Mercer is a grotesque tissue of LIES.

    Pure Zionist garbage. These people lie as easily as most folks walk or breathe.

    L.K,

    For Gentiles to think for one moment that somehow the Jews will reform themselves – is pure folly – the Gentile is projecting his goodness onto Jews – but it will not happen – it cannot happen. The mind of the Jewish child is forever poisoned by his elders at a very early age.

    In her mind, Mercer is not part of humanity – she can ignore the fact that her words support the torture of Palestinian children (only the tip of the iceberg).

    Mercer demands the support of the world by putting a guilt trip on humanity – but in turn refuses to accept the norms of humankind.

    Her ilk keeps the JQ alive.

    Think Peace — Art

  353. renfro says:
    @Moi

    I like their childish lies and brags……it give us the opportunity to expose their lies with ‘real history and evidence’.

    Notice when you do this with ‘real facts’ they never reply. …they slink away.

    • Replies: @Talha
  354. wayfarer says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    Thank you, for the illumination.

    Humanity, is offered two choices.

    Warfare, empty of love and wisdom, an act of selfishness and cowardice.

    Or forgiveness, full of love and wisdom, an act of selflessness and courage.

    It’s so easy to sanction retribution, on the other hand, effecting mercy takes extraordinary will.

    Our “creator,” allows and expects, each man to make his own choice.

    There’s no saving this world single handedly, the best one can probably hope for, is to save himself.

  355. Talha says:
    @Rurik

    Hey Rurik,

    Don’t get me wrong. I didn’t say the concept of the nation-state was necessarily evil (though some parts are quite scary). The reason I pointed out that it was European is simply to point out (and honestly, I don’t think anyone can seriously contest this) that the nation-state as it is today is a by-product of Europe; its unique culture and history. No one else has an event like the Thirty Years War or the Peace of Westphalia. No one else has the 7 Years War, then French Revolution, then Napoleonic Wars, and eventual breakdown of the Autro-Hungarian Empire into the various components.

    The ethno-nation state was a solution to particular European problems and may be the best thing ever for those people and their societies (and offshoots like the US and Australia). However, that model of organization is not native to, nor in any sense an organic outgrowth of the people of the Middle East.

    That was my specific point – that a European idea, suited to the problems of Europe was grafted onto the various people of the Middle East – and, in my opinion, it simply has not worked. Do I know a better solution? No – I’m quite perplexed as to the way forward, I’m hoping people that are far smarter than myself (and native to that region) will propose a better organizational model.

    And I get that ethnicity is very important to many Europeans like yourself, it makes sense, but it simply was not as important to many of the people of the Middle East until recently since they had supra-ethnic bonds vis-a-vis religion (or an over-arching culture, sometimes this was even at the city-level – Damascus had a unique culture different that Allepo and definitely Cairo) that were often quite strong. With loss of religion in prominence, social bonds naturally lose that which allowed them to transcend ethnicity.

    It seems Europeans have made a decision as to which direction they want to go – it is now up to the people of the Middle East to decide; do they want to adhere to that model, return to a different modell or forge a new path.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  356. @L.K

    I just don’t see the point of this being published here.

    I value this sort of thing because it reminds us, starkly, how these creatures’ mental processes operate.

    The tribe is crazier than I could ever have imagined. No wonder their own G-wd got so fed up with the nutty bunch so often.

    And they think we should put up with their endless craziness. Good grief!

  357. @bjondo

    The word must have gone out, last month, that Protestant churches were to carry ADL water and preach to their congregations about the evils of Charlottesville, white privilege and racism.

    I went to a Unitarian church where I have some friends; the preacher’s first paragraph included: Elie Wiesel, holocaust survivor, Sarah Silverman, and an Italian guy who wrote a book (sponsored by ADL) about his recovery from “white supremacism.”

    I had to walk out at that point, rather than risk arrest for screaming obscenities.

    What we have to realize is that the “Jewish genius” is convincing non-Jews to destroy their own people on behalf of Jews.

    Has there been any time in history when non-Jews have exploited Jews to harm Jews?


    During these weeks of Christian churches passing along ADL’s message, I visited a few other churches, mostly Episcopal — not an organization I would have labelled “fundamentalist.” But I heard, “We are sinners” so many times I stopped counting.

    Has anybody ever heard a rabbi drill into his Chosenite congregation, “You are sinners” ??

    That works out nicely for our Jewish overlords, doesn’t it: We are miserable sinners, saved by the blood of Je-zus; You are the Chosen Ones, delegated to teach the world how to be moral –

    (nb. the Hitler quote is bogus)

    • Replies: @Ace
  358. Ace says:
    @geokat62

    Thank you. That video is an absolute gem. I like the Sherlock Holmesian formula – once you eliminate the impossible, what is left is the truth, no matter how improbable. Thus, it’s impossible that these advocates of cultural and racial extinguishment honestly believe that what they advocate is beneficial for their own kind, thus you are left with the only conclusion possible, that they hold within themselves a seething hatred against whites and Western culture. The placid demeanor of Mounk is just a mask. He knows that it is not just an experiment but an all-out attack. The level of malevolence is astonishing.

  359. snag says:

    Oh those ‘poor me’ Jews and their never ending victimhood mantra but in reality they’re not victims but vicious murderers with not one tiny grain of conscience. There’s no accident that Stalin chose them as his butchers.

    A couple of excerpts from a book “How Israel Lost: The Four Questions” by Richard Ben Cramer taken from interview with general Pundak.

    “The Israelis took Hassen out of prison, took him around the Jabalya camp and
    then, at the edge of the camp, they shot him dead, in front of a crowd.
    Why? “Because he was thought of as an activist, and they brought him back to
    he camp to point out who else was active in the resistance. He wouldn’t
    squeal, so they killed him in plain view. They wanted everybody to see.”

    “… Sharon and Eitan caught this man and they killed him right there , they
    slit his throat. The Israeli officer who told about this said the man made
    the sound of a sheep who is slaughtered”

  360. Bliss says:
    @Talha

    Logic fail; no more than Jews praying in the direction of the Temple Mount, that has a mosque on it, makes them Muslims.

    Logic fail? That is really funny coming from the slippery shyster who claimed that Judaism is a branch of Islam. Your attempt at a “metaphysical” explanation for that laughably illogical claim also failed the test of logic. You may be adept at blowing smoke but a logician you are not.

    The mosque on the Temple Mount does not contain any idols, does it? (And muslims do not pray in that direction). So your attempt at exonerating Muhammad from the charge of idol worship fails the test of logic as well. I suggest you give up appeals to logic, for logic is not on your side.

    Because pollution doesn’t change the intrinsic nature of a thing. A shirt with a stain can be worn and still serve its intended purpose.

    You could get your head chopped off by the salafis for downgrading polytheism and idol worship from absolute anathemas to merely non-intrinsic “stains” that can be overlooked. There is zero tolerance for idolatry and polytheism in Islam (in imitation of Judaism), yet Muhammad himself is guilty of transgresssing these most intrinsic of Islamic dogmas.

    • Replies: @Talha
  361. Ace says:
    @Sam J.

    The left is forever saying we need to “have a conversation” about this or that. So it would be great to have just that about the Jewish role in the Bolshevik Revolution, the Cheka, the Red Terror, revolutionary movements and putsches in Europe (Hungary, Austria, Germany), the origins of WWI and II, communism in America (ACLU, NLG), mass third-world immigration, political control of the U.S., globalism, and that multiculturalism that Barbara Specter so artlessly discussed.

    As I said, the most vile things can be blithely uttered by leftist swine as is wonderfully illustrated by the people interviewed on that fantastic video provided by geokat62. Yet if I were to dare to theorize about the prevalence of such attitudes in the lunatic portion of the Jewish people I would be accused of wanting a new holocaust. Fact.

    What Western Christian civilization needs to do is to wake up, number one. This feeble acceptance of the goal and methods of our mortal enemies needs to stop. An awakened civilization will be able to correct our disastrous course and that will be sufficient. Clearly, however, the blanket of propaganda lies on us heavy and thick. It’s ironic that Goebbels has been held up as “the” man who was the master of deception but one or two nights watching Fox News will educate one to how his methods are being applied with devastating effect all over the West. I yearn for an awakening more than anything and everything will take care of itself after that.

  362. CA says:

    Respectfully, I read this and thought it was being sarcastic. Israel has been extremely destructive to Christianity in the Holy Land.

    http://www.keeptalkinggreece.com/2018/02/25/holy-sepulchre-church-jerusalem/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+KeepTalkingGreece+%28Keep+Talking+Greece%29

    Have you noticed the drop of well over 50% of the Christian population in the Occupied Territories since 1967. Have you spoken to Christians who live their to see how they are treated? Do you not read about the properties seized by settlers from The Church, protected by soldiers, and often in defiance of the Israeli courts?

  363. annamaria says:
    @Tyrion 2

    “…barely capable of apeing the intellectual sophistication…”
    – Tyrion 2, who is encouraging you to use such flourishes — your high school teacher?

    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
  364. @ILANA MERCER

    Don’t be fooled by indignation of the commenters. It is unlikely these morons have devoted similar amounts of energy seeking justice for the “displaced natives”of the American continent, or other European colonies for that matter. Rather, they need some justification to frame Jews as villains and Israel gives them infinite fodder for that purpose. Their “sympathy” for the Palestinians is entirely opportunistic in nature.

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  365. Talha says:
    @Bliss

    So your attempt at exonerating Muhammad from the charge of idol worship fails the test of logic as well.

    Well, I guess not – nothing gets by you!

    You could get your head chopped off by the salafis

    Of course not, I’m Salafi remember??!! You said so yourself!

    There is zero tolerance for idolatry and polytheism in Islam (in imitation of Judaism), yet Muhammad himself is guilty of transgresssing these most intrinsic of Islamic dogmas.

    Gasp!!! Oh my GOD!!! No one in history has come to this most logical conclusion; the religion that claims to be the most uncompromisingly monotheistic is actually polytheistic at heart!

    Wow – you HAVE to publish this and distribute this widely! We have no clue that we’ve been doing it all wrong for 14 centuries. You have to get Shaikh Cracker-Jack (may God ennoble his countenance) to tell the ulema. Our souls are at stake – this is your obligation! Please save us from our (retarded, inbred) selves!!!

    PS. We still claim our rights to share in the sovereignty of Jerusalem. I mean, if we’re so retarded as to have mistaken monotheism for polytheism, you can’t expect us to really get the nuances behind our lack of legitimacy in our claims.

    But don’t worry because…You = Winning! And I’m sure you’ll do just as well on any future battlefield against a bunch of illogical retards…I see this in your future…

  366. Talha says:
    @renfro

    Or change the subject or pooh pooh the facts as unconvincing. Isn’t that special?

    Y’member, y’member when I pointed out all those academic links and that guy said I was delusional? Y’member?

  367. annamaria says:
    @Tyrion 2

    “… Muslims have contributed little…”
    — Hey, Tyrion 2, cannot help but to slander the ancient civilizations of the Middle East? Tell us, Tyrion 2, which fundamentals of the sciences were laid down by your Jewish tribe? How about art, philosophy, mathematics, optics, geometry? There were great European Jewish minds that excelled in each of the above-mentioned fields thanks to their owners’ thorough assimilation into European culture. Europe borrowed – a lot! — from the ancient civilizations of the Middle East (Israel is not included) and Greece (Greek thinkers, in turn, were influenced by Egypt).
    Or perhaps you want to boast about the main achievement of Jews, the monotheism? — Nobody is interested in this “achievement.” Time for it is up.

    Also, your infantile outburst towards Talha, who is one of the most knowledgeable and respected contributors to this forum, puts you, Tyrion 2, in a miserable position. If you want to argue like an adult, then you need to study documents and data and you also need to show respect to other peoples’ knowledge.

    • Troll: Tyrion 2
  368. Bliss says:
    @Talha

    God does the condemning to Hell, we just teach what we’ve been taught about how to avoid ending up in it.

    It is presumptuous blasphemy to teach how Eternal Hell can be avoided when Allah himself has already willed the fate of mankind:

    http://www.khilafah.com/guidance-and-misguidance/

    “Verily, Allah sends astray whom He wills, and guides whom He wills.” [Faatir, 35:8]

    “Then Allah misleads whom He wills and guides whom He wills.” [Ibrahim, 14:4]

    “But He sends astray whom He wills and guides whom He wills.” [An-Nahl, 16:93]

    So explain why it makes logical and moral sense to you that the “Just, Merciful and Compassionate” Allah will torture for all eternity the part of mankind (his own creation) he himself has mislead and sent astray? How the hell can anyone make any sense out this patent nonsense?

    • Replies: @Talha
  369. annamaria says:
    @Sam J.

    There is already a Jewish premier-minister, Groysman, in place in Ukraine. Brought to power with the help of the US ziocons in cooperation with Ukrainian neo-Nazi… The Holocaust biz activists have somehow miraculously overlooked that nightmarish story. Economy of Ukraine is tanking: “… the rate of inflation in Ukraine is actually 17-18%…” http://theduran.com/2017-ukrainian-economys-dismal-year/ Amazingly, “Ukraine’s Prime Minister Volodymyr Groysman has announced his government plans to raise spending on defense from UAH 143.6 billion, or US$5.49 billion, in 2017 to UAH 164.9 billion, or US$6.3 billion, in 2018.” https://economics.unian.info/2137649-pm-groysman-ukraines-defense-budget-in-2018-to-grow-to-us63-bln.html

  370. Talha says:
    @Bliss

    How the hell can anyone make any sense out this patent nonsense?

    You can’t – that’s your defense strategy when you meet God. Tell him the Qur’an was completely nonsensical, like really let Him have it! Stamp your feet and spit!

    And if He sends angels to throw you head first into Hell simply refuse to go. Again, stamp your feet!

    “…He lets go astray by it many and He guides by it many. And He lets not go astray by it except the defiantly disobedient.” (2:26)

    But it all makes sense to us since we are inbred retards that don’t understand logic – as you capably demonstrated. The weird thing is we keep breeding – what’s up with that??!! It seems retardness is a selectively fit genetic trait.

    Don’t waste your time with us. Remember, your victory is assured! You = winning!

  371. L.K says:

    In the preface of ‘Ten Myths About Israel’ by Israeli Historian Ilan Pappe, one reads:

    … Were the Jews indeed the original inhabitants of Palestine who deserved to be supported in every way possible in their “return” to their “homeland”? The myth insists that the Jews who arrived in 1882 were the descendants of the Jews expelled by the Romans around 70 CE. …

    Quite a hefty scholarly effort has shown that the Jews of Roman Palestine remained on the land and were first converted to Christianity and then to Islam.

    https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/31171856-ten-myths-about-israel

    • Replies: @Talha
  372. Ace says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    Unitarian services have to be seen to be believed and a strong constitution is necessary to sit through them. One female leader/pastor (?) one time preached a sermon out of a children’s story. The injunction “Never go full retard” applies to that bunch.

  373. Bliss says:
    @Talha

    He never claimed to be a prophet in the Hebrew tradition; he affirmed the validity of the Hebrew prophets.

    Yeah right, according to you he started his own “Ishmaelite” tradition which just happens to include all the Hebrew Prophets. Mohammad lumped himself with the Hebrew prophets (Moses prophesized his coming according to muslims), claimed that Abraham built the Kaaba etc etc but according to this shyster he did not claim to be part of the Hebrew tradition of prophets.

    By the way Ishmael (supposedly ancestor of Mohammad and the Arabs) himself is a character from the Hebrew Bible (Abraham’s abandoned son by his Egyptian slave girl).

    • Replies: @Talha
  374. L.K says:

    Folks, if you decide to read just one book about the issue of Israel/Palestine, particularly if you are a ZUS citizen, make it “Against Our Better Judgment: The hidden history of how the U.S. was used to create Israel”, by author Alison Weir – http://ifamericaknew.org/.

    You can get the Kindle edition for less than $ 8,00. It is packed full of very revealing info you generally don’t find elsewhere.

    http://againstourbetterjudgment.com/

    https://read.amazon.com/kp/embed?linkCode=kpe&ref_=cm_sw_r_kb_dp_js8BzbM6BK33H&asin=B00J0LXYLM&tag=ifamericankne-20&amazonDeviceType=A2CLFWBIMVSE9N&from=Bookcard&preview=newtab&reshareId=JHZT42NT6V4FND41DP9F&reshareChannel=system

  375. L.K says:

    “Israel” was created in contravention of International Law at the time and the UN’s own charter.

    The UN had no mandate to give people’s lands to a bunch of immigrants.

    The Real Story of How Israel Was Created
    by Author Alison Weir, October 11, 2011

    Full article:

    http://original.antiwar.com/alison-weir/2011/10/10/the-real-story-of-how-israel-was-created/

    To better understand the Palestinian bid for membership in the United Nations, it is important to understand the original 1947 U.N. action on Israel-Palestine.

    The common representation of Israel’s birth is that the U.N. created Israel, that the world was in favor of this move, and that the U.S. governmental establishment supported it. All these assumptions are demonstrably incorrect.

    In reality, while the U.N. General Assembly recommended the creation of a Jewish state in part of Palestine, that recommendation was non-binding and never implemented by the Security Council.

    Second, the General Assembly passed that recommendation only after Israel proponents threatened and bribed numerous countries in order to gain a required two-thirds of votes.

    Third, the U.S. administration supported the recommendation out of domestic electoral considerations and took this position over the strenuous objections of the State Department, the CIA, and the Pentagon.

    The passage of the General Assembly recommendation sparked increased violence in the region. Over the following months the armed wing of the pro-Israel movement, which had long been preparing for war, perpetrated a series of massacres and expulsions throughout Palestine, implementing a plan to clear the way for a majority-Jewish state.

    It was this armed aggression, and the ethnic cleansing of at least three-quarters of a million indigenous Palestinians, that created the Jewish state on land that had been 95 percent non-Jewish prior to Zionist immigration and that even after years of immigration remained 70 percent non-Jewish. And despite the shallow patina of legality its partisans extracted from the General Assembly, Israel was born over the opposition of American experts and of governments around the world, who opposed it on both pragmatic and moral grounds. …

  376. L.K says:

    When Zionists Terrorized London by C. Bollyn
    December 4, 2017
    From the Israeli Press: British Intel Reveals How Zionists Terrorized London

    There is, of course, a good reason why Zionist (i.e. Israeli) history is NOT taught in our universities in the United States. It is simply because if Zionist history were taught in our schools, then Americans would quickly realize that the real terrorists are the Zionists. Terrorism has been the tool of the Zionists all along, and continues to be so to this day.

    The following article from today’s Israeli press (Ha’aretz) sheds some light on this history:

    Coat Bomb and Explosive Prosthesis: British Intel Files Reveal How the Zionist Stern Gang Terrorized London, Ha’aretz, December 2, 2017

    - Zionist terrorism was the main threat.
    - MI5 placed known extremist Jewish and Zionist groups in Britain under intense surveillance.
    - Stern Gang member claimed that he had “invented the book bomb.”
    - “The execution was perfect. I learned an important lesson. No security measures can stop sophisticated imaginative planning.”- Yaacov Levstein of the Stern Gang (i.e. LEHI)
    MI5′s dossiers on the group released this week cast the Cold War’s early years in a stark new light: Terrorism, not the Soviet Union, was the main threat

    Records declassified this week by Britain’s Security Service, MI5, reveal an urgent terrorist threat that Britain faced in the 20th century. No, it wasn’t the Irish Republican Army or Islamist terrorist groups that would plague Britain later in the century, but rather extremist Zionist groups fighting the British after World War II to establish the State of Israel.

    In July 1946, one of these groups, the Irgun, led by the future Israeli prime minister and Nobel Peace Prize winner Menachem Begin, blew up the headquarters of the British administration in Palestine, Jerusalem’s King David Hotel, with heavy loss of civilian life and damage. The newly released MI5 files show that another group fighting the British, the Lehi or “Stern Gang,” dispatched cells to carry out bombings and assassinations in Britain itself.

    Full article at http://bollyn.com/#article_16007

  377. Bliss says:
    @Talha

    I am certainly not baying for the blood of apostates

    You can’t because you live in America not Pakistan. The religion you are so tenaciously (and belligerently) defending certainly does. After all Muhammad is the Last Prophet and ultimate role model for mankind and he orders it:

    https://islamqa.info/en/20327

    “Whoever changes his religion, execute him.” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 2794).

    • Replies: @Talha
  378. L.K says:

    STATE OF TERROR
    How terrorism created modern Israel, 2016, by Thomas Suarez (Author)

    https://www.amazon.com/State-Terror-Terrorism-Created-Modern/dp/1566560683/

    http://state-of-terror.net/

    Tapping a trove of declassified British documents, much of which has never before been published, the book details a shocking campaign of Zionist terrorism in 1940s and 1950s Palestine that targeted anyone who challenged its messianic settler goals, whether the British government, the indigenous Palestinians, or Jews.

  379. @annamaria

    Interesting, isn’t it, that Ty will attempt such a rhetorical flourish while misspelling “aping”.

  380. @Tim Timson

    “Rather, they need some justification to frame Jews as villains and Israel gives them infinite fodder for that purpose.”

    Like the Federal Reserve? The billions of dollars in “aid”? USS Liberty? 9/11? That sort of justification?

  381. Talha says:
    @Bliss

    By the way Ishmael (supposedly ancestor of Mohammad and the Arabs) himself is a character from the Hebrew Bible

    Whaaat??!! No way – he’s in the Bible? What a coincidence!!! I tell you, small world…I mean, we just took a shot in the dark and picked a name out of a hat. Wow – lucky! Man it would have been totally embarrassing if we picked something like Rumplestilskin, whew…

    Oh yeah, it looks like Genesis 17 says something like…
    “And as for Ishmael, I have heard you: I will surely bless him; I will make him fruitful and will greatly increase his numbers. He will be the father of twelve rulers, and I will make him into a great nation.”

    And some whack Jewish guy named Josephus supposedly said something like…
    “But as for the Arabians, they circumcise after the thirteenth year: because Ismael, the founder of their nation, who was born to Abraham of the concubine, was circumcised at that age…”

    http://penelope.uchicago.edu/josephus/ant-1.html

    Man, I am totally embarrassed – wow – you are cleaning my clock right now! Remember the axiom everyone must adhere to; if the Jews don’t accept it, it can’t be true! Ask any Zionist, he’ll tell you how right that is!

    Dude, like I said, you should publish this and get it into the hands of the Muslim multitudes and you will completely destroy us because your arguments are totally convincing. In fact, you will usher in a new age, a great age! You know how the Christians had the “Great Schism”? You will usher in the “Great Apostasy”! Millions of Muslims will leave Islam and totally forget about Jerusalem. They will build a statue of you and place it in the Kaaba so they can worship it – finally fulfilling the Sunnah after 14 long centuries…

    Sniff…the tears…they are of…joy…

  382. @dearieme

    Ahaha, I understand. It just kind of freaked me out that you assumed I had written that crap. ;-)

  383. Talha says:
    @L.K

    Hey LK,

    Great reference – thanks!

    Quite a hefty scholarly effort has shown that the Jews of Roman Palestine remained on the land and were first converted to Christianity and then to Islam.

    This is what the genetic studies easily point to.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Stan d Mute
  384. Talha says:
    @Bliss

    Oh my God – no way! That hadith is in Bukhari??!!

    Man, I’m sure the ulema (at the top international councils of fiqh like Shaykh Bin Bayyah and others) have no clue that’s there! Dude – I’m telling you, you have to get the word out – you have to save us from ourselves by showing us that we need to be worshiping idols in the Kaaba to fulfill the Sunnah which will cause us to apostate which will obligate us to kill ourselves! No, no – it’s the only way we’ll learn.

    That Imam Sarakhsi (ra) I referenced earlier, ppppfffsssh what did he know??!! I mean, he only wrote a good amount of his magnum opus, the 30 volume al-Mabsut completely from memory without reference to any books in his library since he was imprisoned:

    https://kitaabun.com/shopping3/product_info.php?products_id=2306

    LOL – dude was such a dork, right? I said am I right? You totally know better than him!

    I would love to continue this, but I can’t sit down anymore since my butt hurts from all the kicking it has received from you! I think, for the sake of my butt and for all the people observing who are feeling so embarrassed for me as I wallow in my shame, I will ignore any future posts from you on this thread.

    You = Winning! Teh victory of Jerusalem is at hand!

    PS. Thanks for referencing one of the most common go-to Salafi-Wahhabi fatwa websites.

    • Replies: @Bliss
    , @iffen
  385. @snag

    They made that “You’re a Nazi!” look like compliment ,…

    It’s the same as “You’re a Racist!” Or “You’re a Fascist!” Or “You’re a White Man!”

    It simply means, “You are much smarter, your logic is inassailable, and I hate you!” Or, more succinctly, “Waaah!”

    So yes, it IS a compliment..

  386. @Bliss

    Judaism is a branch off of Islam.

    This is the kind of comedy gold I’ve been missing! Thanks Ron for scrubbing my “commenters to ignore list” – but since I’d have to wade through pages of non-hilarious tripe to find another example packing this much stupidity into just seven words, I’ve got to rebuild my list.

  387. @Talha

    This:

    Quite a hefty scholarly effort has shown that the Jews of Roman Palestine remained on the land and were first converted to Christianity and then to Islam.

    This is what the genetic studies easily point to.

    Directly contradicts what you wrote here:

    Judaism is a branch off of Islam.

    My but you are funnier than any HBO Comedy Special. I’m almost reluctant to reinstate you to my “ignore” list. Almost… One can only take so much amusement after all.

    • Replies: @Talha
  388. Bliss says:
    @Talha

    I think, for the sake of my butt and for all the people observing who are feeling so embarrassed for me as I wallow in my shame, I will ignore any future posts from you on this thread.

    I don’t blame you. You were making a fool of yourself in the last few posts. Even I started feeling sorry for you.

    • Agree: Talha
  389. Talha says:
    @Grahamsno(G64)

    Hey G64,

    “a lack of healthy introspection” is precisely what your “UMMAH” lacks.

    Oh big time! We need to do some serious housekeeping for sure. One thing is that we have way too many angry young Muslims not listening to our ulema. The extremism problem is definitely something we need to tackle, no doubt about it. And I certainly don’t like it when Muslims blame others for their own deficiencies, they have forgotten the Qur’anic maxim:
    “Everyone is guarded and protected on all sides by the order of God. God does not change the condition of a people unless it changes what is in themselves. When God wants to punish a people, there is no way to escape from it and no one besides God will protect them from it.” (13:11)

    It’s a work in progress. Our Ummah periodically has these flare ups of extremism. This one should really have died in the deserts of Arabia after the Ottomans crushed it, but hey, then they found oil (well, you know this, you said you worked in that sector). We have some very seriously bloody borders and are punching each other to a pulp internally for sure – it’ll pass. I mean, just within living memory of people, European Christians had the most bloody borders and were pulping each other like an addiction (hell, it even spilled over into our lands like North Africa and the Levant) – but now look at France and Germany – like peas in a pod!

    You “Transcendental Monotheists’ (your own words) claim to have solved the mystery of Infinity

    No, we claim nothing regarding “our ability” at all. It communicated with certain men throughout history and revealed to them what it wanted about Itself; which included what It is not and what It is (do the degree that humans can handle):
    “…There is nothing whatsoever like Him, yet He is the Hearing, the Seeing.” (42:11)

    Or as the second Caliph Abu Bakr (ra) stated in a couplet:
    “Your inability to comprehend God is your comprehension of God.”

    Our scholars have basically taught, based on the evidence; anything that comes to your mind, anything that you can comprehend, anything that you can picture – God is other than that.

    If one is seriously interested in Islamic cosmology, this will not disappoint:

    http://www.sunypress.edu/p-2586-the-self-disclosure-of-god.aspx

    medieval nonsense

    I totally get that “medieval” is a pejorative for Europeans and Westerners; makes sense – not too many fun times – understood. It was actually pretty grand for us! I wish Muslims would have more of a medieval mindset, it would solve a hell of a lot of problems.

    just leave us alone

    Totally get and support the “don’t invade, don’t invite” principle!

    Couple of side notes:
    1) Buraaq derives from (برق) which is the root for “lightning/thunderbolt” while Baraak derives from (برك) which is the root for “kneeling down/blessings”.
    2) The verse says “Kill the polytheists wherever you find them” since the word “mushrikeen” has a specific lexical significance.

    Also, before I moved from the suburbs, both my neighbors to the right and left were Filipino. One family was from Mindanao. We had good relations; our boys used to play with each other. Both had invited me over and I was surprised how much they knew about Islam and were knowledgeable about what I could and could not eat (lucky for me, they cooked a lot of fish!). When we got to talking, they told me that a good portion of their relatives were Muslim while they were themselves Catholic. Like most people, they were able to distinguish between troublemakers and normal folk.

    I get that you don’t want Islam here. It is definitely alien to most of the West and I can completely empathize that aspects of it are incompatible with the current incarnation of the West. If you feel strongly about this, I suggest getting with your congressmen/senators and proposing legislation to add amendments to the Constitution to make exceptions to the religion-neutral clauses to make exceptions for Islam and Muslims. A super-majority will likely be required. A good strategy would be to come up with a strong single-issue advocacy group like the NRA (in fact, you may want to work with them and get guidance from them). Once this initial step is accomplished, the doors will be open legally for; 1) stripping Muslims of citizenship, 2) excluding them from certain areas of influence, 3) consigning and forcing them into certain regions/areas/locales or 4) expelling them to Muslim lands (with or without compensation).

    Whew! Now, getting back to the topic at hand – the claim to share in the sovereignty of Jerusalem. We don’t really mind people making fun of the reasons for our claims (that’s expected, they’re not Muslim), just respecting our rights to the claim.

    For example, let’s say a local shaman from Yakutsk started claiming he is the latest incarnation of the Great Space Whale-god (GSWg) that has appeared as various avatars in the past and starts a religion called Shmizlaam. People like what he says and convert to Shmizlaam and call themselves Mushlizms. Then he claims that the very first incarnation of the GSWg actually took place – whoa! – smack dab under the Temple Mount (whatta coincidence!) under the city of Jerusalem (which they call Wakandaddy). And that the original placenta used to birth the GSWg is buried deep underground and gives off blessings to anyone who travels to it and rubs themselves with peanut butter while standing within a 500 meter range. Now, you may think their claims preposterous, but it seems ridiculous to say Mushlizms don’t have a doctrinal claim to want a share in the sovereignty of Jerusalem/Wakandaddy – of course they do; it is written in the sacred scroll made of sacred seal hide as unanimously interpreted by their monk caste. And if the numbers of Mushlizms in the world is steadily reaching 2 billion, and they have a martyr-warrior-saint tradition – you better damn well figure out a way to reasonably accommodate their concerns.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  390. Talha says:
    @Stan d Mute

    Directly contradicts what you wrote here

    Why?

    I’m almost reluctant to reinstate you to my “ignore” list.

    Why? You should totally ignore me. I keep on telling people to ignore me, but they don’t for some reason. Trust me, I’m a waste of your time.

    Peace.

  391. @renfro

    What problem ?
    The Ottomans and British imposed a concept alien to Palestinian culture on Palestinians.
    In many cultures there was no absolute land ownership.
    The Palestinians boycotted the Ottoman land registration, they wanted to avoid taxes and having to send their sons to serve in an alien army.
    Boycotting the registration made it possible for Ottoman tax farmers in Beirut to register unregistered land in their own names, and ‘sell’ it to zionists.
    Then Ottoman forces expelled the Palestinians from their lands and farms.
    The Palestinians afterwards tried to drive off the zionists, with arms, 1880, Petah Tikvah.
    That’s all.

  392. Tyrion 2 says:
    @Talha

    Yeah, but here is the problem; who are you, why should we care what you state? So you are not satisfied with my answers – so what?

    Another component of Muslim dysfunction…

    It shouldn’t matter who I am since what I am saying is plainly true.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @AaronB
  393. iffen says:
    @Talha

    You are defending Islam and by extension righteous Muslims.

    Tyrion is defending Jews and attacking Muslims without regard to Judaism.

    • Replies: @Talha
  394. Talha says:
    @iffen

    Hey iffen,

    Sure, I completely recognize the difference between people like him and other Jewish people who are far more reasonable (even cited some academics) and are willing to work with us even though they disagree with us theologically. I also know of Jewish people who may not be Muslim but recognize us as the legitimate heir to the Ishmaelite promise – we hold dialogues with them. Rabbi Tovia Singer has talked about how that is faith affirming for him, as a Jew:

    So with some Jewish people, the approach is; let’s see how we can reasonably accommodate each other and share this place.

    With others, it’s; alright homie, guard your grill.

    Peace.

  395. Talha says:
    @Tyrion 2

    I’m sure by now everyone here has been in complete and utter awe of your grasp of what’s plainly true.

    So, again, how many lives is it worth to you to have sole control of the city of Jerusalem? Ball park figure is ok.

    • Replies: @iffen
  396. iffen says:
    @Talha

    what’s plainly true.

    As we say down home, “The obvious don’t need no explanation.” :)

    • Replies: @Talha
  397. AaronB says:
    @Tyrion 2

    A good example of Jewish specialization in social technique at the expense of culture or technology creation.

    An inability to separate the personal from the objective.

    Useful for social tactics, useless for genuine creation. You can’t be a good engineer if you habitually fuse the personal with the objective, or create technology, or understand beauty.

    The famous Jewish lack of originality – and ugliness – is a function of inhabiting “narcissistic space” rather than reality. Narcissistic space, however, is very useful for social technique.

    It’s important to understand the various sacrifices and compromises different specializations require of us.

    European history for the past few hundred years was about increasingly specializing in what I’d call “material technique” – science – beyond anything else. During this time, however, cultural activities were not yet dead, but even to some extent strengthened in reaction. Today, however, the process of specialization in material technique has culminated, and Europeans turn to the past for culture – luckily, a glorious past.

    However, the sacrifices Europeans have made are increasingly untenable.

    Jews, when their “creative period” arrived, specialized in social technique above all else – with money being a branch of social technique – which meant a sacrifice of culture, beauty, technology, and originality, and the cultivation of “narcissistic space”.

    ” Narcissistic space” is a habit of mind that becomes reflexive and automatic – and can give one an immense advantage in a social space free of traditional hierarchies. Traditional hierarchies with clear standards of superiority tend to limit the power of “free-floating” narcissism. What I call “un-anchored” narcissism flourishes chiefly in times of cultural confusion and breakdown of standards.

    However, Jewish specialization came at immense sacrifice – and the peculiar melancholy and ugliness of the Jew – material and psychological – was periodically felt to be unbearable, and generated movements of redemption.

    Zionism was the latest of these.

    Are we seeing a new one today?

    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @Tyrion 2
  398. Rurik says:
    @Talha

    Good morning Talha,

    Just so you know, I’m not trying to pile on in any way with the mosquitoes that have been buzzing around you on this thread. And I don’t want this to become a parallel conversation, I think we mostly agree.

    The reason I pointed out that it was European is simply to point out (and honestly, I don’t think anyone can seriously contest this) that the nation-state as it is today is a by-product of Europe; its unique culture and history. No one else has an event like the Thirty Years War or the Peace of Westphalia. No one else has the 7 Years War, then French Revolution, then Napoleonic Wars, and eventual breakdown of the Autro-Hungarian Empire into the various components.

    As I’m sure you’re (and anyone else reading) is aware, what you’re describing is the European nation state. A opposed to all the other nation states, going back to Egypt or the Incas and Aztecs and all the other nation states both known and unknown.

    Insofar as a nation state is an ethno-nation-state, is simply a natural outgrowth of the tribe, (where in some places like Europe it first (d?)evolved into the Feudal system, which then becomes the nation state). But its ethnocentrism is simply an expression of its tribal, familial identity. The Cherokee Nation was/is an expression of the Cherokee tribe’s collective aspirations. As opposed to their rivals the Comanche or the Seminoles (or the white man’s, black man’s, brown man’s or yellow man’s).. all of whom have their own unique and respective desires for their own tribal interests and expressions.

    I suspect this is pretty much a no-brainer, so I won’t belabor it.

    IOW Europe or the ‘white man’ didn’t invent the ethno-nation-state- other than their own unique expression of it.

    Which brings us to Israel.

    However, that model of organization is not native to, nor in any sense an organic outgrowth of the people of the Middle East.

    I’m reminded of this video, I’m sure you’ve seen it.

    It didn’t require anything uniquely European to teach these people how to butcher each other over the land and their tribal, ethno-claims to it in that part of the world. They’ve been doing it for millenniums before even the first white men set foot there.

    The problem with Israel today isn’t because Europeans taught the Jews how to be ethnocentric.

    The problem with Israel today isn’t even limited to Gaza or Jerusalem or even the Palestinian people, who certainly have suffered more than most.

    The problem with Israel today is that Zionist Jews control the world’s central banks, and that power of the purse has given them near total power over the governments and institutions of the West (and beyond). And because they wield such unprecedented power, and because their ethnocentrism is so far off the charts, and into what can only be described as a pathological megalomania, marinated in the masturbatory tribal narcissism of the old testament, that they’ve brought the planet to the brink once again, just as they did during the last century with their World Wars (and all the attendant horrors there of).

    But as most of us look aghast at what happened during and after World War II, the Jews- I suspect look on that event with glee, and only lament that the Soviets (their avatar) didn’t enslave the entire planet.

    That is the problem that we face. The most powerful tribe on the planet, is also a tribe (at its leadership level) of megalomaniacal psychopaths. As often happens. Indeed, most CEOs of major corporations are probably psychopaths, because their nature leads them to the levers of power, like an irresistible force of nature.

    And these psychopaths conceived and plotted and carried out 9/11, with the assistance of assorted CIA and FBI and assorted goyim psychopaths in order to plunge the world into another century of wars and slaughter and horrors writ large, because that is the expression of the Jewish ethno-nation-state, even before Israel was even founded. Because all you have to do to witness the expression of the Jewish id (even before the founding of Israel), is to look at how the Bolsheviks treated their victims, to predict how the Israelis would treat the Palestinians. IOW with murderous, spine-numbing, netherworld cruelty.

    And they didn’t need any UN recognized state to accomplish any of that, because the Zionist Jews were an ‘ethno-nation-state even before they plopped themselves down on Palestine, and began their grim savagery.

    Perhaps the thing I most abhor is any equating of Israel’s treatment of the Palestinians with the European, (Christian if you prefer) character.

    As I’ve mentioned, when the Europeans genocided the Amerindians, it was done so with hand-wringing and soul searching. Not with deliberate cruelty or by blaming the Indians for having the temerity to exist.

    But contrast that to the treatment of the Kulaks, or the treatment of the Palestinians, for whom no amount of cruelty ever seems to be sufficient, and where indeed torture of the innocent, humiliation, murder and oppression and prison for feisty teenage girls.. is the order of the day.

    I guess I just take umbrage at having the European character in any way compared to these sick little bastards, let alone the implication that they learned it from ‘us’.

    Hardly Talha, hardly.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Talha
  399. Talha says:
    @iffen

    Or as some would say; “muh feelz!”

  400. AaronB says:
    @AaronB

    And the Jewish decision to specialize in social technique was not accidental – their whole history and culture was preparing them for it, and the breakdown of traditional standards gave them their opportunity.

    You see it with our good Tyrion here -he says it, so it must be true. He “knows”. It’s not a conscious deception or conscious attempt to control – it’s an automatic mental habit, a product of being raised since infancy to cultivate “narcissistic space” and keep reality at bay at all costs.

    Now in a time of cultural confusion and break down of standards the man who “knows” can gain a social advantage over the man who “doubts”.

    Such a man may be stupid and unoriginal, may not have a beautiful culture or be capable of participating in the great burst of technological invention taking place around him – but he has a social edge, at least so long as confusion and uncertaibty reigns.

    However, confusion and uncertainty cannot reign forever, and the great Age of Doubt is gradually drawing to a close, and people are yearning for firm and clear standards – any standard!

    In this emerging environment “narcissistic space” is losing its magical power, and Jews like Tyrion grow increasingly confused and frustrated. The old magic is failing! It is no longer sufficient to claim one “knows.

    What can one do? This is when a people enters it’s tragi-comic phase – inevitably, one doubles down on the strategies that yielded so much success in the past, with growing panic and anger, until some great defeat or tragedy forces a final reckoning with reality.

    In this sense, both Europeans and Jews are headed for such a recckoning in entirely different ways, and not necessarily just with each other, but with themselves and the world at large.

    • Replies: @wayfarer
  401. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Talha

    Yeah. Europeans get a lot of guff these days for conquering the rest of the world. They really should get more credit for being pretty much the only conquerors in history to give it all back.

    • Replies: @Talha
  402. Talha says:
    @Anon

    They really should get more credit for being pretty much the only conquerors in history to give it all back.

    Not sure about that – case in point; North America and Australia. Just sayin’.

    But yeah – they left the Muslim lands for sure – I can’t think of a single place where they remained unless you can. I think Muslims are just too much trouble to rule over as a large majority. Not worth it – much easier to pull back and cut deals with them to come to terms with getting access to their resources or whatever.

    Peace.

  403. Talha says:
    @Rurik

    Hey Rurik,

    IOW Europe or the ‘white man’ didn’t invent the ethno-nation-state- other than their own unique expression of it.

    If you take the definition of the nation-state to be that malleable, I will certainly agree here. And you are right, tribalism has been with us for a long, long time.

    I don’t think I said the Israelis learned their behavior from Europeans, but my point was that the architects of Zionism were Jews from the European milieu. They didn’t seem to see past the box they were used to living in. They took the model familiar to them and tried to impose it in the Middle East. If you read their writings, you see how frustrated they were that so many Jews of the Middle East were simply not interested in their pet project. It had to be forced along.

    That’s a great video by the way; much better to learn from the past and come up with reasonable and equitable solutions to share the volatile regions – especially holy cities like Jerusalem/Wakandaddy.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  404. Tyrion 2 says:
    @AaronB

    When I point out that others should work better at separating the personal from the political, the best you can do is repeat it back to me but longer and madder and with no evidence.

    I literally wrote “It shouldn’t matter who I am since what I am saying is plainly true.”

    Which is the opposite of what you accuse me of. How could your comprehension skills fail you so bigly?!?!?!?!

    I suppose it makes a change from your mate Talha who is constantly threatening to kill people if I don’t give up Jerusalem…a city I have no control over, have visited once, in a country I have no citizenship of, and have been only on a short holiday to. And he thinks repeatedly threatening lives in this way is a good argument probably for no other reason than that I have been generous enough to ignore it and its clearly psychotic intent.

    Unfortunately for me, Western countries are going into serious decline under the influence of exactly the personality type you both show. Unfortunately for both of you, that type seems to drift more often to Rousseauaianism than Islam, or whatever you espouse.

    However the hallmarks of this are clear. In both cases, internal emotional turmoil drives political agitation rather than either being unrelated or the effect being mostly the other way around.

    Your bizarre and florid obsession with Jews is creepy. Your extraordinarily unpleasant description of them is yet another textbook example of projection. No one talks like that about anything except their own shadow. Your attempts to hide it by putting in some phrases to serve as purported positives are unsubtle and ill-disciplined – you could have least put in genuine positives rather than backhanded insults. But you clearly couldn’t help yourself, which is a huge red flag.

    The difference between your posts and mine are quite clear. You claim objectivity. I make it key to my argument. You claim to be only interested in the truth. I only show interest in the truth.

    You’re the lady who doth protest too much. Your actions belie your words. You should try some self-reflection. Perhaps you should genuinely consider if what I am writing might be true?

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @AaronB
  405. Rurik says:
    @Talha

    European Christians had the most bloody borders and were pulping each other like an addiction (hell, it even spilled over into our lands like North Africa and the Levant)

    “There you go again”

    ;)

    Zionism (and its attendant evils) is not a product of the European peoples.

    Rather it is a scourge and a plague, imposed by Europe’s most ((intractable enemy)), that bedevils them, just as it bedevils the people of the Middle East.

    The bloody border wars Europe fought in the last century were a direct consequence of Zionist intrigue and treachery, starting with the Balfour Declaration, and ending with Israel rising out of the smoking ruins of Germany and much of France and other European victims of the (Jewish) bankers who foisted those wars.

    Were it not for Jewish Bolsheviks- and their fraternal twin the Jewish Zionists (and Jewish bankers who funded both movements), there would have been a quick close to WWI. And there would have been no Hitler or Stalin, no gulags or communism or a hundred million people dying of same. There would have been no World War II, or the Holocaust or any of the horrors that were a direct consequence of that Jewish-imposed calamity. There would have been no Israel- and Palestine today would likely be a place of peace for Jews, Christians and Muslims to live and raise their families with love and hope and respect for their neighbors, as had been going on for centuries.

    Zionism and the strife in the Middle East today are not happening because of Nazi Germany. Rather Nazi Germany (and all the horrors of that war) happened because of the Zionists.

    that is the cause and effect, not the reverse.

    All the misery and strife and horrors in the Greater Levant today are all a consequence of the Zionist stranglehold on the governments and institutions of the West.

    It is Zionism, not Western civilization, that dragged the ZUSA into WWI, just as it was Zionism that fomented WWII, just as it was Zionists who perpetrated 9/11 in order to get the ZUSA to fight more wars for Israel, which it had been doing since WWI.

    And ALL of it comes out of the Satanic agenda of the Zionist Jews, and not Germans or Brits or Belgians or white Americans. Who are all the stooges of these Zionist Jewish bankers because Zionist Jews control our money supply, and therefor control our institutions.

    I just want us to get the continuity correct, so we don’t blame the wrong people. Zionist Jews get control of the US Treasury, immediately afterwards –

    President Woodrow Wilson was the fairy godmother who provided Trotsky with a passport to return to Russia to “carry forward” the revolution. This American passport was accompanied by a Russian entry permit and a British transit visa. Jennings C. Wise, in Woodrow Wilson: Disciple of Revolution, makes the pertinent comment, “Historians must never forget that Woodrow Wilson, despite the efforts of the British police, made it possible for Leon Trotsky to enter Russia with an American passport.”

    http://www.reformation.org/wall-st-bolshevik-ch2.html

    and with suitcases full of cash, Trotsky leaves New York on his way to Russia, where the ((Bolshevik)) revolution is on the brink of enslaving Russia and threatening Europe.

    ALL of the strife and horrors and suffering of WWII, and the horrors inflicted upon Palestine, and Iraq and Syria and Libya and 9/11 and the drones and terror… … are all a direct consequence of the Fiend being in control of our governments. Not an expression of the European character/soul. For whom the Fiend harbors a singular, netherworld hatred that makes all its other hatreds look like candies in a dish.

    Peace.

  406. Talha says:
    @Tyrion 2

    I suppose it makes a change from your mate Talha who is constantly threatening to kill people if I don’t give up Jerusalem

    Incorrect – I made it clear (multiple times) that if Israelis make a bid to annex Jerusalem and hold it under sole sovereignty in complete rejection of international law and completely disregard for Muslim claims to share in the sovereignty; then there will be blood. Maybe it won’t be until we get our act together so it may take 10, 50, 500 years, but mark my words we will take it back by force if it is taken from us by force.

    I have zero problems with an equitable setup to make the city international and demilitarized with only a local police force and equal co-sharing of the various holy sites between Muslims, Christians and Jews.

    Don’t put words in my mouth. Everybody else gets it but you.

  407. Talha says:
    @Rurik

    Hey Rurik,

    I was actually not talking about Zionism at all there (though it certainly took advantage of the situation). I was talking about the war between Germany and Britain/US in North America (Rommel vs Patton) and against the Vichy-French government with their garrison in Syria/Lebanon.

    That’s all. Your point about about Zionist influence in the banking system in an early phase is duly noted.

    The larger point I was making was this (and this is unconnected to Zionism)…

    People tell us that our troubles stem from our organization of our societies around religious precepts in the political sphere. That if we simply decouple things and go whole-hog secular, all our troubles and bloodshed will end. They point to Europe as an example.

    The issue is, from our perspective, the Enlightenment wrapped up around late 18th century. So one could say the 7 Years War and the Napoleonic Wars were simply growing pains. However, the various governments were already decidedly secular when WW1 and WW2 broke out and those were two of the most horrific and bloody conflicts on the continent (not even including the carnage you’ve mentioned in Eastern Europe under the Soviets who were also quite irreligious).

    For us, we are being asked to throw religious organization of our societies (with the attendant issues that brings) – which includes by the way an extremely hostile view of an usurious central banking model – behind us for a model that has historically not guaranteed that we won’t slaughter each other with an even greater passion and industrial-level efficiency than before. At least if we are being asked to lose out on our hereafter, someone should guarantee we won’t also turn our current world into hell beneath our feet.

    So my point was more about the criticism of the way Muslim societies are organized than anything else.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Rurik
    , @Talha
  408. Rurik says:
    @Talha

    that the architects of Zionism were Jews from the European milieu.

    well, OK

    But I don’t see it quite that way. I get what you’re saying about the Jews of the Middle East not wanting to murder their Arab Muslim and Christian neighbors and steal their homes, because they probably liked them, and had lived in harmony with them for generations. So it would be understandable that they weren’t too keen to kill them.

    But neither is the European all that keen to kill their neighbors either. They have to be cajoled into it by their elites and leaders.

    It isn’t endemic of Europe for the Swiss or the Finns to want to kill their neighbors and steal their land, and then lord it over their victims like the Zionists do. I just don’t see that mentality anywhere on the continent, or its colonies, at least since I’ve been alive. In my putatively European culture and milieu, there is a knee-jerk sympathy for the underdog, and a pervasive sympathy for the children of lesser Gods.

    But, since I’ve been alive, all I’ve seen out of the (uniquely un-European) Zionists.. is a psychotic imperative to dominate their neighbors, kill and torture and humiliate their victims, and generally create strife and hatred and misery, wherever your see their works.

    And I just can’t see that as having anything to do with the European character. Quite the contrary, at least as I mention, since I’ve been alive.

    Europeans I believe have a deep, historic respect in their blood for things like honor and fair play. And I see the Zionists as being exactly the opposite, and who mock these values, and revel in duplicity and treachery. So I just have an issue with the two things (the West vs. Zionism) being conflated I guess.

    Zionism is anti-West. The immutable death of the West. Our nemeses, as much as it is for the Palestinians (or the Syrians or the Russians, for that matter).

    If there is a Fiend in the world, then that fiend is Zionism. Not Western civilization, for whom Zionism will be just as deadly as its twin Bolshevism.

    Peace

  409. Rurik says:
    @Talha

    That if we simply decouple things and go whole-hog secular, all our troubles and bloodshed will end. They point to Europe as an example.

    did the troubles end for Iran when it was under the secular quisling Shah?

    no, hardly. It was far, far worse, and why, because the Shah was, if anything, a zio-quisling.

    I don’t know enough about Islam or human nature to presume to opine on what Islam should or should not do, except to lament the imperial corruption of places like Saudi Arabia, or the myriad zio-quislings in the Middle East and Africa.

    I don’t think Muslims should look to the secular West, since the West is run by and for Westerners, and it was built and designed by them to suit them.

    Arabs and Persians and Africans and Asians are not Westerners, and so they shouldn’t try to pretend like they are. Their civilizations and religions and ways and wonts are what they’ve created over thousands of years to suit them. Westerns may find the caste system of Hinduism or some or the more harsh methods of Sharia to be odd, but their ways are not our ways. And viva la difference.

    I just wish the followers of the respective tenets of Islam could set their differences aside, and concentrate on the Fiend that threatens us all.

    And perhaps this is where we both wholeheartedly agree Talha, that in order for that to happen, so as to free both Islam and Christendom from the Satanic depravities of the Fiend, we first need to End the Fed !

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @snag
  410. Talha says:
    @Rurik

    End the Fed!

    Amen, brother, amen…

  411. AaronB says:
    @Tyrion 2

    This reply is an excellent sample of Jewish social technique – not because you are especially skillful but because you employ several very basic, but classic, tactics that are beginning to lose their effectiveness.

    Right down to attempting to stigmatize any analysis of Jewish culture as “creepy”, when entire departments of anthropology exist to study cultures from around the world.

    Tyrion, I don’t think you are consciously trying to manipulate – you simply suffer from drastic “perspective loss” that is one of the products of a Jewish upbringing – long years of habit have narrowed your focus in ways you are literally unconscious of.

    What people don’t understand is that Jewish manipulation would be amateurish and ineffective if it was “conscious” – the conscious mind is a rather clumsy and slow organ, and any skill must become automatic of it is have any serious effectiveness.

    While unconscious habit is necessary to be good at anything, it also puts you on “autopilot” – which is why people don’t change course until they crash into a wall.

    The price of being good at something is not being able to see the larger picture.

    At which point, the painful process of consciously choosing a new path through analysis must begin, which then gets assimilated into our unconscious and becomes a natural skill once again.

    Until conditions no longer favor it, then the crash again.

    Trust me Tyrion, I know – I myself was a product of this Jewish upbringing – I too used to passionately defend Jewish causes in autopilot mode without any real larger awareness. I literally could not see myself, as you cannot now.

    It took years of travel and experience of other cultures, reading, and life experiences to break the hardened shell of the Jewish carapace that enclosed me.

    Even now, I think there’s something mysterious in it.

    You strike me as young Tyrion – and yet, I see something in you that makes me think you might transcend your narrow focus and break out of the shell.

    Perhaps I’m wrong. We shall see.

    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
  412. druid says:
    @Twodees Partain

    Ur Shalem, name due to Canaanite god, Shalem!

    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
  413. wayfarer says:
    @AaronB

    It’s not a conscious deception or conscious attempt to control – it’s an automatic mental habit, a product of being raised since infancy to cultivate “narcissistic space” and keep reality at bay at all costs.

    Thanks, for an insightful analysis.

    I’d never heard of “narcissistic space,” prior to reading your post.

    With respect to a number of haunted memories, it’s provided a few more answers to questions, which I’ve been seeking for quite some time.

    “Narcissist: Drama Queen in Pathological Narcissistic Space”

    • Replies: @AaronB
  414. Tyrion 2 says:
    @AaronB

    This is substandard svengali of a cult dross…

    • Replies: @AaronB
  415. AaronB says:
    @Tyrion 2

    Yes, come join our cult of humanity and reason and values. You will love it, I promise.

    • Troll: Tyrion 2
  416. AaronB says:
    @wayfarer

    I hope it helps you wayfarer.

    The concept of narcissism is key to understanding so much about the world, from social relations to spirituality.

  417. @Rurik

    Rather it is a scourge and a plague, imposed by Europe’s most ((intractable enemy)), that bedevils them, just as it bedevils the people of the Middle East.

    The bloody border wars Europe fought in the last century were a direct consequence of Zionist intrigue and treachery, starting with the Balfour Declaration, and ending with Israel rising out of the smoking ruins of Germany and much of France and other European victims of the (Jewish) bankers who foisted those wars.

    Yes, to this and to the rest of your comment..

    Thanks Rurik.

    Andrew Joyce made a similar mistake in this otherwise terrific conversation with Henrik Palmgren at RedIce

    Specifically, at a point within about 10 minutes of the end of the interview, Joyce mentions Theodor Kaufmann’s “Germany Must Perish” that, Joyce says, was published near the end of the war “in retaliation for what Germans had done to Jews; . . . what it proposed was genocide of the German people.”

    My quibble is that Jews did not plan genocide of Germans “in revenge for what they’d done to Jews;” Jews started planning the genocide of Germany no later than Feb. 14, 1933.

    No matter how you think about The (Jewish) Holocaust, it did not occur in 1933, or even in 1941 when Kaufmann published Germany Must Perish.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  418. @Rurik

    Zionism and the strife in the Middle East today are not happening because of Nazi Germany. Rather Nazi Germany (and all the horrors of that war) happened because of the Zionists.

    that is the cause and effect, not the reverse. -Rurik

    • Replies: @annamaria
  419. snag says:
    @Rurik

    Talking about shah – Guess who was running SAVAK and where this monster lives? Persecution and murder it’s their trademark ,…

    http://thoughtcrimeradio.net/2014/10/beast-of-savak-prowls-streets-of-orlando-florida/

    • Agree: Rurik
  420. snag says:

    renfro !!! ,…

    I couldn’t help myself and added your post @ 16 to my response to some zio-ignorants on Breidbart with note of credit with your name (renfro) … Sue me ;)

    https://disqus.com/home/discussion/breitbartproduction/mort_klein_mahmoud_abbas8217s_un_speech_proves_he_is_no_partner_for_peace/#comment-3777756650

    • Replies: @renfro
  421. Old Jew says:
    @jilles dykstra

    Dijkstra (1968) “A Case against the GO TO Statement” .

    Edgar Dykstra is one of the Elders of my profession.

    Makes me partial to your name.

    By the way.
    I very much agree with your brother.
    The church provides friends and community.
    Even if you are atheist (but not militant),
    the friends the stability, the predictability, the routine,
    the songs are there to support you and strengthen you,
    and do extend your mortal life, here on this Earth.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  422. Old Jew says:
    @james angelton

    Yente
    is one of the very few Yiddish names of Romance ( Spanish or Latin) origin.
    Like “gentile” in English.

    Why yente ended up meaning a silly chartering Yidene, I don’t know.

  423. Over the years I have worked on many archeological sites in Israel, I took advanced Hebrew at Yale and the entire Ulpan program in Jerusalem, and I have walked all over Palestine for months at a time. I worked on the area of excavations near the Wailing wall with Mazar and on the City of David site with Shiloh. This article has some interesting points here and there, but mostly this is unadulterated Zionist bullshit. There are so many ludicrous statements made that I will not waste time reciting them.

    The big issue that is never addressed in baloney of this kind is the fact that, according to the Torah, Moses told Joshua in no uncertain terms how to take and hold the land now called Israel. Moses was leading his people precisely at the time when the entire Late Bronze world was crashing. Civilisation was spread across many highly developed nations that were all falling apart and being conquered by barbarians at once. This also happened when the Late Bronze age ended, and the Middle Bronze closing years. That was the point: usury and trade based economies always crash, and when this happens hundreds of thousands of innocent people die or are enslaved. This understanding was central for Moses and Confucious: all empires crash. Furthermore, since the Levant is right between the much larger empires of Mesopotamia and Egypt, they would eventually get back on their feet and be a threat if the Hebrews went in and built cities and a conventional nation.

    So, Moses instructions were clear. The Hebrew people were never to make for themselves a king to rule them all; no, they were to stay in separate tribes. And, most of all they were never to build cities and concentrate the population. That way when great armies came again a people still living in tribes with great herds and families living in tents could move back into the desert again until times changed. If they kept women in the home and out of the marketplace, half the economy would be safe from the market crashes. This way, by never becoming an urban nation, they could survive for millennia not just a few centuries. Then over and over and over again the Prophets complain when the people go in and do everything they were told not to do. Jesus held his hands up in the temple and told his people that all of this is coming down, and it was destroyed completely by 69 ad. In time the Jews became among the most urban people in the world.

    We should still honour the Jews for telling the story, for writing it down so honestly. That is their great accomplishment. They disobeyed and were destroyed as the Prophets promised, but they kept an honest record of the whole story. The Egyptians had been literate for two thousand years before Moses, as had been the Mesopotamians, Persians, and Indus Valley people. Today we have neo-Viking Europeans and Americans who have been literate less than a thousand years ruling over people with historical awareness and literacy five times as old. For the gentiles, especially the American fundamentalists, the Jews are the most important carriers of the ancient wisdom imaginable, and in the childish innocence they garble the history like this writer. They never read the story enough to know that making Jerusalem the capital and David a king was in total rebellion against the advice of their founding father Moses.

    At the time of the exodus Ramesses II was building his monster capital city Pi-Ramesses on a now gone eastern branch of the Nile, and he conscripted a huge work force for this work. If you look on Google Earth at the map of Egypt and Pi-Ramesses you can see that obviously the sea often moves across the narrow low area between the African and Middle Eastern plates when the sea rises. There is a low area at the north end of the Gulf of Suez that obviously goes under water from the Red Sea when the wind blows from the south at high tide at the full moon. Moses was said to have been educated by scholars at court, and in Egypt tides and moon cycles were important information. It is not that hard to imagine him gathering his people and moving them across to the Sinai Peninsula just ahead of a tidal surge that would cover their tracks and block the trail. All in all the story holds up much better than a lot of modern historical narratives that every gentile swallows.

    • Replies: @snag
  424. renfro says:
    @snag

    No problem …Feel free to use anything of mine you find helpful.

    • Replies: @snag
  425. @Old Jew

    Dykstra, or Dijkstra, is quite a common name.
    Under French occupation family names had to be chosen.
    ‘Stra’ means ‘living near’, ‘dyk’ is from ‘dike’, of which we have a lot.
    How Napoleon created the nation state, also with us, is little known.
    Many registrations were taken away from the churches.

    • Replies: @Truth
  426. @druid

    That sounds like it’s possible. I also question the assertion that “jews” have considered the city sacred for 2000+ years, since the term “jews” is a fairly recent invention.

  427. Talha says:
    @Talha

    Sorry – should have been North Africa (not North America – LOL). Rommel was a very capable commander, but he wasn’t THAT good.

  428. Rurik says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    Great video S2C, it’s encouraging to hear a rare European who’s awake.

    (it’s discouraging that there are so few)

    Thanks for your tireless efforts to speak the truth.

  429. annamaria says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    Ziocons’ triumph in Ukraine: https://www.rt.com/op-ed/419603-ukraine-maidan-poroshenko-eu/
    “Ukraine’s main problem: Corruption.
    The “EuroMaidan” movement pledged to wipe out corruption, improve living standards and integrate Ukraine into the west. On all counts, it has failed miserably.
    In 2014, Ukrainian incomes were already paltry. But today, not only does the country compete with Moldova for the dubious distinction of having the lowest salaries in Europe, its GDP per capita is now below El Salvador and Libya and wedged between Laos and Vietnam in raw dollar terms. Nevertheless, despite these difficulties, it did manage to rise four places in the Doing Business 2018 ranking of the World Bank.”
    – Yes, Ukraine has become a country of paradoxes. The Nuland-Kagan revolution of Indecency in Kiev was accomplished in a collaboration between the CIA and Ukrainian neo-Nazis. An Israeli/Ukrainian citizen Kolomojsky has been financing a neo-Nazi battalion to protect his assets in eastern Ukraine. Since Maidan, the betrayed Ukrainian citizens saw even greater corruption than before the US-run coup; they had their salaries and pensions halved, and they saw how their country became the most anti-semitic in Europe. And yet the current Ukrainian prime-minister Groysman is Jewish. One wonders, who has elected this “Volodimir” Groysman for the post? A report by Ministry for Diaspora Affairs (under Education Minister Naftali Bennett) said that “2017 was the second consecutive year that Ukraine had the largest number of anti-Semitic incidents of any other country from the former Soviet Union.” http://jewishnews.timesofisrael.com/ukraine-had-more-anti-semitic-incidents-than-all-former-soviet-countries-combined/
    Q: What had been Nuland-Kagan doing in Ukraine in 2014? — A: Meddling into the country’s affairs and destroying it. After the 2014 coup d’etat, millions of people have left Ukraine — their homes, their culture. https://tradingeconomics.com/ukraine/population
    The 4 million slaughtered human beings in the Middle East since 1999 are obviously not enough for the war profiteers and the chosen. Today it is Russain Federation that is in the cross-hair.

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  430. snag says:
    @Mike Gerrett

    Did you ever try to use some logic while peddling this story about Moses and exodus?

    600.000 warriors with their families, let say wife and 4 kids (small family in those days) that’s 3.6 millions people. after 40 years counting 2.5 % population growth that’s at least 15 million souls, but to make it easier let stay with those 3.6 million.

    To survive on desert every person need at least 1 gallon of water a day that’s 360 (10,000 gallons) cisterns supplying gasoline to you gas station and minimum 1,000 more for hygiene, cooking and washing. On the top of that they would need at least 1kg loaf of bread a day that’s 3600 (10 ton) trucks a day not counting some meat, fruits or vegetables from time to time to supply the vitamins and minerals your body need to survive. That’s 54 km long column o 18 wheeler trucks without counting the space between them. They need to sleep let say in tents 1 family in 1 tent 3 meters between them 6 tents in one raw that’s 300 kilometers long column of tents. In some places in the mountains there are passes that hardly one or two people can squeeze, imagine how long would it take them to get on the other side.

    Let say ta they walk 36 people (six families) in the raw and 1 meter between the raws that’s 100 kilometers long column and assume that they walk 10 kilometers a day they would need at least 10 days to cross reservoir of water, that means 20 high/low tides during 10 days and 20 times to be flooded and drown.

    In the city of 1.7 million today in 21 century there’s more than 20.000 deaths of natural causes a year (confirmed) that means at least 50.000 dead folks every year in Moses’ crowd. Archaeologists are digging for at least couple of century and haven’t found one cemetery, no lost artifacts, no records that mention exodus in Egypt or neighboring kingdoms, NOTHING!

    In those conditions no mention of epidemics like typhus and other diseases … Strange.

    Moses’ story is a carbon copy of the one about Sargon the Great (check it) that used to live long before Moses if you believe that he existed. Without Moses there’s no Judaism, Christianity and Islam.

    Here’s a good one … Our Creator needed 6 days to create our visible Universe and 40 days to pass the Ten Commandment to some schmock on top of the mountain … Beam me up Scotty ;) ,…

    .https://i.pinimg.com/236x/5e/f0/79/5ef079ab69f43da97eb9ce0f8b6b6b23.jpg

    The whole good book is overflowing with fairy tales for people in that time not for for us in 21 Century.

  431. We generally believe that human beings migrated from one continent to the next. But there is little evidence of the trek in across the planet. Your case for what is required is a bit sided. Washing, bathing. I can tell you as someone that trekked around, bathing is a luxury and it would not be understood as one understands it today. For basic cleaning one doesn’t need much more than a bowl of water to address the essentials. In reality one can survive a desert trek without ever cooking a thing. And the idea that one needs a tent suggest that you haven;t spent much time in the outdoors. While having a tent is nice, it’s a luxury that on long treks is burdensome and an annoyance. I think it’s safe to note, that while a long and tough journey, the hazards of desert life would not have been unknown. People have been trekking and making hoes in the desert since the first people’s crossed the deserts of African and proceeded to make a home of it arid conditions. I think it is also safe to say, that the Hebrews located natural resources.

    But while your contention of the populations of 2.4 million may be accurate, your speculation on the births and deaths is pure speculation. The size of the families, pure speculation. I don’t think we have any idea what the exact number is that entered the “promised lang” It is however doubtful that it was more than a million, probably a far sight less.

    But I think your final comments reveal the real point of departure. It’s not archaeology or that the records rarely reflect events that reflect negatively on the Egyptians or others recording their history of the time. The real break for you as with most, is the idea of the supernatural intervention. And that is not an easy leap. The idea that when these crisis points arrived as to water and food, God intervened is just a leap too far. If one doubts the supernatural then even as possibility, then the core premise of belief is not a bridge one can overcome. All of the debate to prove otherwise is without benefit.

    One can question the time line of events such as creation because they have not the space to understand and apply the full definition of God. That definition means that God there is no time. It just does not come into except for a means of human beings to contemplate space and dimension.
    Here’s where the concept of metaphor has value.

    Your reference to God needing six days is misconstruing the meaning of six of days and more importantly, that of necessity. It just has no real place in comprehending the supernatural. Scripture does not say God needed six days or a minute to create. Those events are described in time to help man, not place restraint on God. What I have found fascinating is the that modern science has come to an impasse on the values, and nature of black holes. The descriptions ends are not mathematical formulas but in very real terms existentialist. The hard science simply fails to explain it.

    I have no response as to whether the great wind that separated the seas were natural occurrences that opened the narrowest and lowest locations as some scientists contend or the very nature of the God’s spirit parted the waters. Whether the Nile routines turned red as the result of algae plumes or churning waters turn up red clay or whether it was actually blood. I think its great when plausible explanations are advanced. But I am also willing to say, I don’t know why it happened at that moment in time. I don’t have answers for every question that troubles the mind of people concerning scripture old or new.

    I think we are agreed on this if in fact, the journey of the Israelite’s is accurate, it’s a monumental feat given the known conditions, but that presumes we actually know those conditions –

    I think it is valid challenge whether the sacred or the supernatural is enough to make a land claim. But land claim or not people of faith acknowledge and hold to sacredness – the existence of a supreme existence that does as that existence wants when and however.

    And acknowledging that means, one is subject to something larger than self. That is ultimately a personal decision that can only occur with an encounter with the supernatural. But, its evident to me that it was possible for x number of people to depart Egypt, trek across the desert and land in what we know as Israel or Palestine. After all it’s not as if crossing deserts is unknown in human history — or there would be no British people.

    God save the queen.

    https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/biblical-topics/exodus/exodus-fact-or-fiction/

    http://www.aish.com/ci/sam/48938472.html

    http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Israeli-hiker-discovers-3500-year-old-Egyptian-seal-in-Galilee-443605

    Hannibal’s trek — with elephants no less.

    • Replies: @Anon
  432. snag says:

    Here’s a response to your first link the other two got nothing to do with exodus ,…

    https://www.davidovits.info/error-or-forgery-on-the-stele-of-merneptah-known-as-israel-stele/

    If you want to keep argue please stay on the subject and concentrate on impartial sources. Biblical Archaeology is not impartial to start with. You have to admit that after all their digging they found nothing and except those fairytales there’s no physical proof of this mighty exodus.

    I’m interested in logic and facts not fairy tales so please leave my Creator and divine intervention out of it.

    By the way six of those Ten commandments you can find in the Egyptian Book of Dead and it looks like our Creator found the Egyptians around 1400 earlier than Abraham …

    “In the case of the Egyptians we have some fascinating illustrations of the process that began long before the time of Moses. In Saqqara, in Ankhmahon’s tomb, Visir of the Pharaoh Teti Dynasty (c. 2345 BCE)”

    https://jamestabor.com/egyptian-circumcision-before-the-time-of-abraham/

    • Replies: @snag
  433. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    People have been trekking and making hoes in the desert

    The latter explains the former, I guess. ;)

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  434. @Anon

    “People have been trekking and making hoes in the desert.”

    Laugh.

    People have been trekking and making homes in the desert

    • Replies: @iffen
  435. snag says:
    @snag

    Oops … 400 not 1400 – Sorry ,…

  436. I turn to the Unz review for respite from the vile Lugenpresse only to read one of the most horrific apologies for genocide, ethnic cleansing, lies, deception, fraud, etc…ever seen. One of the greatest lies or frauds ever perpetuated is the claim that the “jews” of “Israel” are the physical and/or religious descendants of the People of Yahweh in the Old Tesament. The whole creation and continuation of the state of “Israel” has been one huge crime against humanity and God and cries out to be rectified.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  437. @Blue Jacket

    I would think that some number of Jews are descendents. I would also note that the biological descendants are spread throughout the Golbe and european Jews have no unique claim to that legacy.

    As for religious link — the Old Testament makes this admonition — a “Jews is a Jew of the heart.”

    I would amend your comment to the method by which such claim is being advanced as the problem.

  438. snag says:

    450 is my response to EliteCommInc. at 449.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  439. @snag

    I was unclear about that. I will respond in due course. excuse the delay

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  440. Talha says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    but rather to the issue appeals of authority

    This is important to the equation; I mean, there are people who dedicate there lives to this entire endeavor.

    There is also another issue that people sometimes do not think about:
    1) Some stuff will never be dug up or recovered…
    What do I mean? Well, when the Romans conquered Alexandria (and since then) the library was burned and damaged. Subsequent conquests followed – the Persians (the Sassanid/Byzantine wars were quite destructive according to Prof. Michael Penn https://religiousstudies.stanford.edu/people/michael-penn), Muslims, etc. We sort of assume that previous generations of people had the same regard as we do for this stuff and preserving it as we do. They certainly didn’t; conquests could be followed by complete destruction of a previous sovereign’s capital buildings, temples, monuments of culture. Sometimes it was very thorough, as in the case of Carthage:
    “Furthermore, (moreover) I consider that Carthage must be destroyed.” – Cato the Elder

    And so it was, with extreme prejudice.

    2) There is still more stuff to dig up (some examples of very recent discoveries):
    “Archaeologists announced Sunday that they have discovered an ancient sun temple containing large statues of the pharaoh Ramses II under an outdoor marketplace in Cairo, Egypt.
    The temple was found in a suburb of Cairo called Ain Shams. The site was once part of the ancient city of Heliopolis, which served as the center of sun worship in ancient Egypt. The chief sun god, Re, was the patron sun god of Heliopolis.”

    https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/03/0301_060301_egypt.html

    “Archaeologists in Egypt have discovered a 4,400-year-old tomb near the country’s famed pyramids at the Giza plateau just outside Cairo, the Antiquities Ministry said Saturday, the latest discovery that authorities hope will help revive the country’s staggering tourism sector.The tomb was found in a wider area of Giza’s western necropolis, which is known to be home to tombs from the Old Kingdom.It likely belonged to a woman known as Hetpet, who archaeologists believe was close to ancient Egyptian royals of the 5th Dynasty….Despite all the discoveries already made about ancient Egypt, experts say they hope to find much more — in part thanks to modern technology — treasures still buried under the vast desert.”

    http://time.com/5132270/ancient-tomb-cairo/

    3) Stuff that will never be dug up:
    “Archaeologists from Egypt and Germany have discovered the remains of an ancient Egyptian statue they believe could depict one of history’s most famous rulers. The likeness of what may be Pharaoh Ramses II was found submerged in groundwater in a working-class neighborhood of Cairo.”

    https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2017/03/egypt-pharaoh-ramses-statue-discovered-cairo/

    Cairo is a very old city, but relatively new in that it really got off the ground as a garrison city named Fustat after the Muslims conquered Egypt. It kept growing to its current sprawling mega-city form.

    Like Damascus, it probably has tons of stuff buried under it, but there is no way anyone is going to be allowed to simply tear up the entire massive metropolis to get to it.

    What’s my point? A little humility is due from every side to acknowledge that any claims to have the whole picture are simply just claims.

    Peace.

  441. I think I understand your point. Attempting to uncover the past is hard work and there no guarantees that an educated reasonable hypothesis about this or that. Sometimes, it’s just luck. But ancient archaeology is also comprised of fortune (luck), accident and mistake.

    And my comments are not intended to dismiss the concerns of those who demand hard evidence. But it’s detective work, that given the ages can be difficult.

    https://www.livescience.com/38191-ancient-troy.html

    • Replies: @Talha
  442. Talha says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    I generally agree with you in this regard. I guess the point I was really trying to make was an epistemological one; there is literally faith involved in both sides of the argument.

    One side has faith it will find evidence to back its belief, the other side has made a claim based on evidence at hand and has faith that nothing will be found to contradict it or that all the pertinent evidence has actually been preserved and will eventually be accessible.

    Look, I have zero problems believing in the Exodus narrative and all the miracles surrounding it – I may not believe in all the details in the Bible (the Qur’an rarely contains details on these matters like the Bible does – it simply gives the main meta-narrative). Those things are not a problem, as you mentioned, if you believe in a Creator that is not bound by the normal rules He governs the phenomenal world.

    A side note – and I’ve found this interesting to contemplate – and maybe you will too (coming from your background). The Abrahamic traditions (actually others as well – though they may not use the same terms) acknowledge that angels came in the form of human beings. In our tradition, the angel Gabriel (as) would often use the form of a Companion named Dihya Kalbi (ra). If you were to scrape off some skin, get some hair, etc. from that form, and examine it through genetic studies – what would you get? If the results would be showing the same genetic structure as an Arab named Dihya Kalbi (ra), you would assume the creature has a terrestrial origin; it is a hominid from the homo sapiens lineage – but it isn’t. Something fun to think about when you are open to not being pinned down to having a naturalistic explanation for everything.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  443. @Talha

    I agree that the issues are also supernatural and that angels manifest themselves in human form.

    If I understand you correctly, two observations

    1 Abraham wrestled with God — some say merely metaphor.
    2. Angels took human wives/mates.

    • Replies: @Talha
  444. Talha says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    No , that wasn’t what I was getting at actually. Especially #1 since we don’t believe God incarnates in the physical world. And no on the angels and human wives also – we actually don’t believe angels have a gender (this is interesting because Muslim cultures traditionally do not name their kids after angels since children are born either male or female and angels aren’t either).

    I guess I was getting to the point that, just because Adam (pbuh) has what is perceived to be exactly terrestrial origins stemming from an evolutionary branch of hominid, that does not necessitate him actually being from that branch.

    An example. If we posit that God can create anything ex-nihilo as a starting point, then we can posit that He can create a species of shark (say one with a modified hammer head and red color patterns on the tail) right now and just blip it into existence. If humans found the shark and analyzed it, well, we would of course naturally assume, through analysis of its genetic make up, that it comes from the terrestrial shark family and simply branched off at some point along the path. It would have the exact same genetics as other sharks, just a different code for the slight differences. In looking for a purely naturalistic explanation, we would assume that the shark arrived at those divergences via natural selection over time from a previous species – a very rational and logical conclusion. But in this particular case, that is not true – it simply seems like it does.

    Again, fun to think about – I wasn’t there, I don’t know the details of course.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  445. headrick says:

    This 3-D chess hurts ones head – but – recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel makes the 2-state solution less reasonable, and the 1-state solution would lay on the feet of Israel the responsibility to treat all Palestinians including the west bank ones, as full Israeli citizens, with full rights.- and to do less is a huge civil rights black eye for Israel once the 1-state solution is the name of the game. Thus the militant Zionists may have their agenda compromised with no Palestinian state forthcoming ever. Of course if you were sufficiently brutal, the Zionists might shoot for the American solution- the Indian Reservation idea.

  446. @Talha

    Hmmmmmm . . .

    the divergence here is far amiss the contentions about sacred claims to territory. I buy genetic adaptation, not genetic species jump.

    I agree the very nature of God means God sets the rules for the physical world or transcends them. That is I don’t have any issues that God says this land is yours, occupy it. I don’t have too many issues with ancient peoples and the manner in which they acquired land.

    But since the expulsion by supernatural decree attempting to make that claim in the modern era via demand and violence is a hard sell in the case of Israel, having been re-established via another legal entity, I conclude that whatever God grants he intends to make a way via the systems available. And that according to his timetable, not Israel’s, not Hews, not christians, not the UN, not the US — but God’s and his alone.

    Unless he transcends that process, I am inclined to think it provides an orderly mechanism forward. And no sacredness authorizes Israel to walk wantonly on international law or the expectation God has for Jews or Israel — which ultimately is to be the beacon of God.

    That is a very heavy responsibility, in my view.

    • Replies: @Talha
  447. Talha says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    Yeah – I was totally diverging from the topic at hand.

    I have no problem thinking that animals followed the normal Darwinian mechanisms (though, I don’t believe in chaos or haphazardness in the process) to arrive at the forms that they currently exhibit. I was simply making a point that, if Adam (pbuh) and his progeny are an exception, there is no guarantee that any evidence would be found by any analysis to prove that out since we can easily fit right into Darwinian assumptions.

    As to your point about Israel, it is on par with my points. Despite the past history, we have international treaties and obligations and courts and counsels that serve to reduce conflict and resolve these matters in transparent, legal procedures. The UN vote on the US declaration of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel trounced any idea that the world is on Israel’s side on this; countries as diverse and Venezuela, Japan, Britain, etc. all disapproved:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/un-jerusalem-vote-latest-updates-list-countries-voted-against-us-israel-capital-nikki-haley-general-a8124136.html

    I simply make it clear that if people aren’t going to abide by what’s been ruled in the court room, we can eventually settle it outside on the steps to the building. I’d rather not, but sometimes you have to bust heads to let people know you won’t be pushed around.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  448. @Talha

    I understand. At least I think I do.

    The advent of humanity is such a drastic break as a species I tend to think it doesn’t have much of a train. In fact, without species jump, I am not sure there is much in the way of evidence got anything other than adaptation. There’s not normal in my view, for Darwinian theory as evolution.

    The Darwinian theory, if one includes species jump is a huge leap across millions of intervening species. It’s a plausible theory — but plausible is not fat. I am aware of the press among biologists, even evolutionary biologists that men and press share a 6% DNA similarity. But that is not species jump. And i have yet to hear a definitive prediction of what will be the next state.

    I note species jump as a transcendent event.

    I am going to respond to location of the capital issue. While I am not convinced the policy recognizing Jerusalem as the capital is a way to peace. Where the US places its embassy is between tat state and the US. I recognize that the issue of just where the borders ought to be remains in dispute. I also recognize that many believe Israel should not exist at all.

    • Replies: @Talha
  449. Talha says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    I note species jump as a transcendent event.

    Exactly, which would not leave any clues that would necessarily distinguish it, by any evidence, from the normal adaptive paradigm.

    I also recognize that many believe Israel should not exist at all.

    This is only somewhat relevant. I believe Israel will eventually dissolve due to normal pressures over time; demographic, economic, etc. – this may take 50 to 500 years. I don’t know the future.

    But what we can ask of everyone is to stick to and abide by the legal procedures; maybe you lost a case in court where you couldn’t prove the guy took your watch and feel really pissed off about it (the feeling is fine) – that doesn’t mean to can go out there and club him over the head and take it back. I’m hoping cooler heads will prevail and I think the UN is probably the best way to handle these things; it was meant to get us out of the law of the jungle.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  450. @Talha

    I further understand that you are saying just as with the Exodus account,’s missing archaeological evidence, does not preclude the that it happened — it simply means there’s no evidence or there is missing evidence.

    I understand your position wit the following caveat(s):

    1. We do have evidence that entire societies trekked across desert, mountains, oceans, seas and ic to create new civilizations. Which suggests something more than plausibility for the Exodus.

    2. we have no occurrences of species jump as art natural processes.

    _____________

    My Israel existence comment is more – acknowledge where many people stand – I agree it is not directly relevant.

    I am more bitter about what people in authority have done knowingly and but for convenience in violating the law, ethics as well as their own oath of office where they make the victims criminal. And I agree, such injustices are not cause for engaging in the same.

    The holocaust nor past wrongs real or imagined is not cause for Israel to abuse Palestinians or anyone else – merely on the basis of divine right. And for christians to support such an ethic defies anything I understand about the faith and practice. One can support Israel and still oppose misdeeds.

    • Replies: @Talha
  451. Talha says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    You got my drift exactly. The issue is, how can one possibly provide evidence that meets and only meets naturalistic demands? We can’t – I mean, I believe in angels, but have zero empirical proof for them. Same with practically all previous miraculous events; Jesus (pbuh) healing the blind and lepers. I agree, species jumps have never been observed by us, the observance of which would literally amount to recording a miracle in action.

    At some point, a person decides; do I only believe what is possible and can be explained by naturalistic explanations or do I believe in, what are basically, miracles. I totally get that materialists don’t believe in them – makes sense, that’s why they’re materialists. But why should a person who takes faith seriously also necessarily tie themselves to that paradigm.

    And I get your mention of Exodus, but I have no problem believing in the parting of the Red Sea either.

    Your last paragraph is helpful; I really, really wish more Christians who feel a theological proclivity to support Israel (which I can understand coming from their perspective) would think along these lines and not just write her a blank check and not hold her to account.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  452. @Talha

    Smile.

    That anyone here would ever admit to my understanding or providing useful comments them is stunning. Laugh.

    I will say in their stead (christians) — no one wants to be on the wrong side of bible. prophecy.

    • Replies: @Talha
  453. Talha says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    No problems. I have learned from people here at UNZ – even changed my mind on some things, but through dialog..never learned a damn thing through insults.

    I get the whole take on being on the right side of prophecy. That is one reason I can’t fault certain Christians for having that natural inclination towards Israel. But that inclination should not serve as a cover for letting her get away with murder or theft, etc. – which is why I’m glad you agree. I really hope this kind of thinking spreads among Christians.

    I for one hope we can reel in some of our explosive (sometimes literally) extremists too. I’m really hoping cooler heads prevail, if there is supposed to be a cataclysmic war there according to prophecy – so be it – but there’s no reason for us to have to actively want to push for that inevitability.

    On a side note, the return of Jesus (pbuh) is something Muslims look forward to – but the world’s circumstances under which he returns are far, far from being desirable.

    Best to you and your folks – may God preserve you with honor in this world and the next.

    Peace.

  454. Alden says:
    @Tyrion 2

    1 million out of 5 million living in another country is 20 percent. No other country has that big a percentage of its citizens living in another country. A lot of the Israeli immigrants to the states are the Mizrahi who feel they can’t make a living in Israel because of discrimination.

    And what’s with those mall kiosks which is a better living than they can get in Israel? Kiosk owners they are nothing but shetl pushcart peddlers. Come on, a country that has to send it’s young men to America to be pushcart peddlers in malls?

    • Replies: @snag
  455. Alden says:
    @jilles dykstra

    They were built by Christian slaves.

  456. Alden says:
    @iffen

    A 400 year revanchism is a lot better than 3,000 year old revanchism.

  457. Alden says:
    @Talha

    What’s the marching song of the Israeli army?

    Onward Christian Soldiers.

    • Replies: @Talha
  458. Alden says:
    @AaronB

    I’m not Jewish but I’ve Lived in Jewish neighborhoods all my life. The arguing and superiority doesn’t bother me.

    What bothers me is the Jewish creation of school desegregation, affirmative action and whether it’s black criminals, Hispanics, gays transsexuals, always always creating a Jewish black Hispanic gay transsexual whatever they can find to create a coalition against the White goyim.

    If aliens from Venus arrive on earth they will be greeted by American and European Jews wanting a coalition against the White goyim.

    • Agree: snag
    • Replies: @polskijoe
    , @Truth
  459. Alden says:
    @Rurik

    Wilson was totally controlled by Zionist Sam Untermeyer who blackmailed him about his illegitimate son.

    The zionists probably put Wilson into the presidency because they knew he could be blackmailed about the son.

    Even then they didn’t wait for candidates. They found them and made them candidates.

  460. polskijoe says:
    @Alden

    What you refer to is the New Left (created in the 1960s by CIA and Jewish Communists inside the USA, this group was antiStalin, but pro Lenin/Trotsky in culture ways)

    I see three problematic groups in Jews:

    a)New Left (perverts, who hate all of Christian culture)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Left

    b)Neocon-NeoZionism (these are very aggressive and dangerous)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Zionism

    c)International Zionism/Liberalism (these are providing money, they are elities)

  461. Talha says:
    @Alden

    They were built by Christian slaves.

    If I recall, there was extensive use of Christian slaves for certain expansions (certain Muslim historians even wrote down where they came from, like Castille). Also many, many normal laborers and artisans were employed – some brought in from as far as Syria – and the expansions didn’t happen all at once, they took place piecemeal over many centuries. The use of slaves for this kind of a prestige project is fairly par for the course in that time; other civilizations even forced prisoners to do the work – and, if my memory serves me, the Great Wall of China even used children.

    As far as the Israeli Army’s marching song – you’re right on, though it seems they are also not averse to using Salafi-Wahhabi extremists as proxies either.

    Peace.

  462. snag says:
    @Alden

    A country that suppose to be overflowing with geniuses, inventors and innovators can’t manage to stay afloat without German and US handouts – Masters at bragging and screwing others ,…

  463. Truth says:
    @Alden

    Aldey, is there someone you actually like?

  464. Josecanuc says:
    @AaronB

    “Come, come, Tyrion, no need to throw tantrums :)

    I think he’s angry with you because the Jews are in a frenzy now (because of their stylish subjugation of the Christian West (and all it’s ‘international allies’) – which‘Surpasses Wonder’ – to finally fulfill the covenant since there are only a few nations in the world that remain for the Christian West (and all its international allies) to confront and subjugate. And the reason for all of this subjugation *which surpasses wonder” is simple:

    “After you – O Israel – have inherited the earth… and achieved dominion over every living thing on earth…then… shall mankind beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; then shall one nation not lift up sword against another nation, neither shall they learn war anymore..”

    Kinda of strange reading this. Considering all the wars the chosen people have been – and are today – responsible for. Must be the perfect example of a ‘the end justifies the means” situation.

    I don’t understand why they are in such a hurry a frenzy now. What will they to do after the whole world is thoroughly subjugated – like the United States? Will they become what they actually are? The Monarchs, Sovereignty and Chosen Nobles of the Christian world?

    Will the whole world then be obliged to fawn over them, bow, genuflect and toady up to them as the Christian West’s politicians are necessitated because of their total control (which surpasses wonder) over them? Is the consummate subjugation of the United States of today the ideal depiction of what the Jews really (and can only) mean by fulfilling their covenant?

    Is this what the Jews mean is ‘being mankind’s blessing and light, and uplifting, healing and curing (and inheriting) the world”?

  465. “The Controversy of Zion” (1956) by Douglas Reed
    http://www.controversyofzion.info/Controversybook/reeedcontrov.pdf p.375 ch.46

    In some diseases modern medicine is able to identify the original source of [567] infection, the primary sore. The primary source of all these troubles, as they culminated in the deeds of October 29 and 30, 1956 is demonstrably Zionism; they could not have happened in that way without it. In the logical sequence to its every act since it took shape as a political force in the ghettoes of Russia some eighty years ago, it led the world to the edge of universal war, and on that, brink none knew which of their friends of yesterday would be the foe of the morrow. Here was “the deception of nations” at the full, indeed.

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