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Jews Must Never Forget Trump for Remembering Our Unforgettable Jerusalem
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The United Nations, naturally, disapproved.

Pope Francis, more enigmatically, protested, too, when President Donald Trump recognized Jerusalem as the eternal Capital of Israel. By 2019’s end, the Trump administration plans to open the American Embassy in Jerusalem.

There’s a reason Muslims living in Israel proper—1.5 million of them—don’t migrate to the adjacent Palestinian Authority. They’re better off in Israel. Should Jerusalem, East and West, be recognized formally as the capital of Israel only, under Jewish control alone; Christianity’s holiest sites will be better off. Judaism’s holy sites will be safer. And so will Islam’s.

Jerusalem is no settlement to be haggled over; it’s the capital of the Jewish State. King David conquered it 1000 years Before Christ. The city’s “Muslim Period” began only in the year 638 of the Common Era.

“Yerushalaim,” and not Al Quds, is the name of the city that was sacred to Jews for nearly two thousand years before Muhammad.

Indeed, not once is Jerusalem mentioned in the Quran. And while Muhammad was said to have departed to the heavens from the Al Aksa Mosque, there was no mosque in Jerusalem. The Dome of the Rock and the Al Aksa Mosque were built upon the Jewish Temple Mount. Muslim theologians subsequently justified this usurpation by superimposing their own chronology—and relatively recent fondness for Jerusalem—upon the existing, ancient sanctity of the place to Jews.

Essentially, this amounts to historical identity theft.

It’s bad enough that Bethlehem—the burial site of the matriarch Rachel, birthplace to King David and Jesus and site of the Church of the Nativity—is controlled by the Palestinians. But, as one wag wondered, “How would Christians react if Muslim theologians had chosen to appropriate the Church of the Holy Sepulcher, rename it and declare it Muslim property?”

There is nothing Solomonic about splitting Jerusalem, which—it bears repeating—was sacred to Jews for nearly two millennia before Muhammad and is not in the Quran. “The Muslim Claim to Jerusalem,” notes Dr. Daniel Pipes, is political, not religious or historic. As such, it’s also a recent project. “Centuries of neglect came to an abrupt end after June 1967, when the Old City came under Israeli control,” explains Pipes. “Palestinians [then] again made Jerusalem the centerpiece of their political program, [when, in fact] Mecca is the eternal city of Islam, the place from which non-Muslims are strictly forbidden. Very roughly speaking, [Mecca is to Islam] what Jerusalem is to Judaism.”

East Jerusalem was not annexed in June of 1967. Rather, Jerusalem was unified.

Loose paraphrasing of U.N. resolution 242 requires Israel to give the Golan Heights to Syria (which is tantamount to returning land to the aggressors) and allow the Palestinians to establish a state capital in East Jerusalem. For their concessions, this “peace initiative” entitles Israelis to “an effective veto” on the national suicide pact known as the right of return: the imperative to absorb millions of self-styled Palestinian “refugees” into Israel proper.

(A similar mystical right—call it a global right of return to the US for citizens of the world—was discovered in the US Constitution by Trump-hating, Gold Star father Khizr Khan, and, shamefully, by a majority of American Jews on the Left.)

A quick quiz: What does “unoccupied” or “liberated” Palestinian land look like? Answer: Like Gaza.

Gaza serves as a sufficiently strong precedent against the folly of ceding territory to Islam. (With the exception of the long-suffering Kurds, what Muslim nation has recently made good on territory gained or on self-determination won?)

Gaza was “returned” to the Palestinians, who promptly destroyed the hothouses Israelis had built there, and planted in the ground Qassam rocket launchers, instead. Gaza now hothouses Hamasniks. In all, granting statehood to their nihilistic neighbors has been pretty thankless for Israelis.

But what of Palestinian families who’ve resided in The City for generations? This the libertarian must address.

The question of generational attachment to place and title in property is simple to solve if intentions are good.

Of course Palestinians should retain their properties.

An historical, national Jewish right to the city of Jerusalem does not extinguish the property rights of individual Arab homesteaders acquired over the years.

Muslims residing in East Jerusalem must just learn to extend to their Jewish neighbors the courtesy their Muslim brethren receive from their Jewish neighbors, in Israel proper.

In other words, allow Jews to live in peace. Or, just live.

Faith and the facts of history notwithstanding, Jerusalem undivided as the capital of the Jewish State is what Christians should be praying for if they value celebrating future Easter Holy Weeks in the Church of the Holy Sepulcher, located in Jerusalem’s Old City.

The current pontiff is not Pope Benedict, who was—still is—a brave and brilliant scholar.

ORDER IT NOW

Pope Francis is likely more familiar with Quranic verses than with Psalms 137:5, in which the exiled Jews likened forgetting Jerusalem to forgetting the function of one’s right hand. (Literally translated, it is a vow: “If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, let my right hand forget her cunning.”)

That was in 607 BC (Before Christ), and we Jews have still not forgotten.

Ilana Mercer has been writing a weekly, paleolibertarian column since 1999. She is the author of “Into the Cannibal’s Pot: Lessons for America From Post-Apartheid South Africa (2011) & “The Trump Revolution: The Donald’s Creative Destruction Deconstructed (June, 2016). She’s on Twitter, Facebook,Gab & YouTube.

 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: Donald Trump, Israel 
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  1. anon • Disclaimer says:

    Good grief.
    There’s nothing quite like religion.

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  2. Muslims, Jews…you both need to leave Jerusalem. Once that pathetic antipope Francis is gone, the next pontiff should find some suitable French aristocrats and declare a new crusade…the kingdom of Jerusalem must be reestablished.

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    • Agree: utu
    • Replies: @Talha
    LOOL! Yo, come getcha some boy!

    This will of course help French population take an even steeper nosedive as its young men are sent into the Middle East meat grinder.

    Peace.
    , @iffen
    LOL

    Maybe if you provided a few German princes to go along with the French aristocrats the group might make it a few miles before someone took their lunch money.
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  3. “Yerushalaim,” and not Al Quds, is the name of the city that was sacred to Jews for nearly two thousand years before Muhammad.”

    Well, OK. My cousin, rest her soul, when we were kids, pronounced it Jahroozlieham. We spoke a Piedmont Carolina dialect of English that’s mostly extinct now. I kind of prefer that pronunciation, if y’all jewish folks don’t mind.

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    • Replies: @dearieme
    "the name of the city that was sacred to Jews for nearly two thousand years before Muhammad": over-egging the pudding. There weren't any Jews two thousand years before Muhammad in any recognisable sense. The Torah didn't exist, there were no monotheists living thereabouts as far as archaeologists can tell, and Jerusalem at the time David purportedly existed was an unfortified village i.e. it wasn't a city and it didn't have a defensive wall.

    Were you never taught that exaggeration weakens a case?
    , @druid
    Ur Shalem, name due to Canaanite god, Shalem!
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  4. Just me says:

    Wtf is this

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    • Replies: @anonymous
    Clickbait.

    Time to have Mr. Unz choose a fresh version of The Mercer Image?
    , @druid
    I usually don't read anything but this Islam may not have been there until 1400 years ago but the Palestinians were there in the form of Canaanites and others when murdering Moses and his son came to destroy!
    , @a bystander
    Exactly !
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  5. Rurik says:

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    • Replies: @Che Guava
    Nice, Rurik.

    If I am not mistaken, that is Bale playing Patrick Bateman in the very good movie of American Psycho.

    Trump appears as a background prop (in the book) at least once or twice.

    I love the movie because I hate movies that are not faithful to the source (with the reluctant exception of Bladerunner, and even PKD ended up liking that).

    This thread is very entertaining, not least because Mercer really shows her twoo kuhlahs.

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  6. Kingfelix says:

    “A quick quiz: What does “unoccupied” or “liberated” Palestinian land look like? Answer: Like Gaza.”

    An astonishing assertion, in an article that contains plenty of outrageous statements.

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    • Replies: @jacques sheete

    ... in an article that contains plenty of outrageous statements.
     
    Hey, it's one way to get read. It's pathetic, but some will do anything to get a few seconds worth of attention. It's on the level of an infant throwing a temper tantrum, but it must work well enough.
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  7. Talha says:
    @German_reader
    Muslims, Jews...you both need to leave Jerusalem. Once that pathetic antipope Francis is gone, the next pontiff should find some suitable French aristocrats and declare a new crusade...the kingdom of Jerusalem must be reestablished.

    LOOL! Yo, come getcha some boy!

    This will of course help French population take an even steeper nosedive as its young men are sent into the Middle East meat grinder.

    Peace.

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    • Replies: @German_reader
    It wasn't exactly a serious proposal. I don't care much about Jerusalem, but at least in theory I'd be in favour of either some internationalization of the city, or East Jerusalem being part of a Palestinian state. Both are unlikely to happen though.
    , @Anon
    When the British were in Jerusalem it wasn't exactly Arab action which expelled them.

    ...

    That's enough "Yo' mama" from me today.
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  8. Talha says:

    Very interesting article. This of course may work for its appeal to Western audiences – Daniel Pipes doesn’t really get to declare what we believe is sacred or not.

    But at some point you have to sell it to the Muslims, 1.6 billion of them. The argument is not very convincing from our perspective since we believe those were our prophets and the city is sacred to us as well. You can call it cultural appropriation or whatever, but that kind of nonsense works with Western audiences, not us. I’d honestly like to go the sharing route, but if the Israelis insist on Jewish-only control, well – that’s simply not acceptable. We’ve got time, we’re not going anywhere – we’ll wait…and fight. Your move…

    Peace.

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    • Replies: @Talha
    And it’s quite strange that Ms. Mercer would be trying to tell Christians what would be good for them when the heads of the Christian Churches in the area already stated clearly that Jerusalem should retain international status:
    https://www.lpj.org/heads-local-churches-send-letter-to-president-donald-trump-regarding-status-of-jerusalem/

    Or is Ms. Mercer going to also teach them about their proper theological stances?
    , @Tyrion 2

    The argument is not very convincing from our perspective since we believe those were our prophets and the city is sacred to us as well.
     
    Islam is to Judaism what the Jason Momoa 'Conan' is to the Schwarzenegger original. Overwrought, pointlessly violent, devoid of all wit, charm and an obvious exercise in a group of very dull people missing the point.

    That Muslims think their cheap knock-off means that they have some sort of spiritual connection to Jerusalem makes as much sense as me having the right to the Great Wall of China because I can, like an idiot, paint myself yellow and squint my eyes.

    , @OilcanFloyd
    " We’ve got time, we’re not going anywhere – we’ll wait…and fight. Your move…"

    That's pretty much everyone's response to the current Jewish order. All they can really do is try to have everyone else at one another's throats, and in one another's lands.
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  9. joe webb says:

    funny: ” In other words, allow Jews to live in peace. Or, just live”. Author is a liberal jew? Jeeze!
    on land stolen from somebody else, any goy will do.

    When Israel allowe Arabs to live in peace….any pay for what you stole. That might be a peace plan.
    Return stolen property and make restitution. Try starting in Syria right now.

    All Jews Out of Arab land. Or, if Palestinians agree to some kind of purchase AND a Palestinian state. Fine, up to them. “And Everubody hates the jews”… punch line in an old Tom Lehrer song

    The arrogance off the Jews is boundless. War will always be with them. That seems to be what they want.

    The only reason Israel exists is Protestants and Catholic nutcases. It is all just a crusade. And the rest of us pay for it.

    Another solution is to bulldoze Jerusalem and dump the rubble in the sea. Allow pilgrimages to the New Holy Site from anybody on the bases of idiots first. There could be scuba diving and jews could leave messages in the rocks. Muslims could do whatever they do with their butts up in the air/water. Take me Allah.

    If your respective gods had a sense of humor, he would wipe you all out and start over.

    How about Jews letting White folks live in peace too instead of jewish subversion , war for Israel, and WWThree, compliments of the Jews.

    “PS all the yak about 2000 years ago is pure war talk. Get over it. What’s the word? Revanchist is one of them. Old borders from millennia ago…keep it up jewgirl and into the killing fields you lead your fanatics….. yet again.
    Libertarians are nuts, like old-line liberals…repeat after me…All men are whatever…congrats, you now be a citizen.

    oe Webb

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    • Agree: druid
    • Replies: @druid
    She is no liberal Jew. She is ex-South African racist Zio. I knew them there - they were all ardent Zionists. For American consumption they call themselves liberal
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  10. Biff says:

    One has to stand back in awe of the greatest bullshit story ever told. The champion of false promises and exaggerated claims – Religion.

    Not my words.

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    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    George was on a roll there, it's one of my favourite bits.
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  11. Talha says:
    @Talha
    Very interesting article. This of course may work for its appeal to Western audiences - Daniel Pipes doesn’t really get to declare what we believe is sacred or not.

    But at some point you have to sell it to the Muslims, 1.6 billion of them. The argument is not very convincing from our perspective since we believe those were our prophets and the city is sacred to us as well. You can call it cultural appropriation or whatever, but that kind of nonsense works with Western audiences, not us. I’d honestly like to go the sharing route, but if the Israelis insist on Jewish-only control, well - that’s simply not acceptable. We’ve got time, we’re not going anywhere - we’ll wait...and fight. Your move...

    Peace.

    And it’s quite strange that Ms. Mercer would be trying to tell Christians what would be good for them when the heads of the Christian Churches in the area already stated clearly that Jerusalem should retain international status:

    https://www.lpj.org/heads-local-churches-send-letter-to-president-donald-trump-regarding-status-of-jerusalem/

    Or is Ms. Mercer going to also teach them about their proper theological stances?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous

    ... heads of the Christian Churches in the area already stated clearly that Jerusalem should retain international status:
     
    The heads of local churches will say whatever their violent Muslim neighbors tell them to say.

    They have thoroughly absorbed the lesson that you don't speak up against violent, supremacist Muslims.

    BTW Al-Quds is not really the "name" of Jerusalem in Arabic, but more like a moniker meaning "the Holy One."

    Israel should encourage Arabs to use the same moniker for Mecca and Medina.

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  12. So here’s the reason for the Mercer’s family contributing $millions to the Trump’s campaign!!

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    • Replies: @Chet Roman
    Ilana Mercer is an radical Zionist Jew from South Africa, not related to the billionaire Mercers that supported Bannon and donated to Trump. Robert Mercer, the billionaire, mainly supported Trump hoping to get the IRS to cancel their attempt to fine him $6.8 billion, which is still pending.
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  13. anon • Disclaimer says:

    High level question: The year’s 2050. What does the Israel Palestine situation most probably look like?

    Possibilities:

    1 Looks like the current status quo. Current borders intact. More settlement building. “Occupation” continues.
    2 They have agreed to two sovereign states with defined borders.
    3 The two populations have merged into one state with equal rights for all citizens.
    4 The Palestinians have been ethnically cleansed from the West Bank and/or Gaza, and fled to Jordan/Egypt/USA/Europe (Probably on pretext of war).
    5 Some combination of these or additional options?

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    • Replies: @byrresheim
    4

    Unless we stop them.
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  14. AnalogMan says:

    To hell with them all. I, for one, will never forget the part played by the Jews, including Ilana’s father, the Rabbi, in destroying my homeland, South Africa. There is a reckoning coming, and I hope I live to see it. You people always push, push, push, until it blows up in your faces.

    I know you won’t publish this, and that’s OK. The message is for you.

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    • Replies: @David
    This is a great comment.

    I find the consensus among the commenters in this thread somewhat inspirational, like a community of reasonable, like-minded people is being formed.

    , @Alden
    Good for you, right on!!

    The Jews are in the process of doing to American Whites what they did to the S
    African Whites. It might not succeed because the Jews are running around between blacks, Hispanics, the 2 percent of the population that is gay and tranny, Asians and even Arab immigrants to form an anti White coalition. The only anti White groups the Jews managed to form coalitions with gays and blacks. That coalition still holds, but the other grievance groups have their own agenda and have resisted Jewish takeover for decades.

    Never forget never forgive
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  15. mcohen says:

    Well written and factual piece.donald trump kept his word regarding the embassy move,but peace should be the final goal.The huge amounts of defence spending could be otherwise used to build a just and better society for all of israels citizens.

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    • Replies: @jconsley
    How about the U.S. tax dollars given to Israeli Jews be used for road, bridges, education and health care for Americans? If Israel wants peace rather than annexing Arab lands, let Israelis make the sacrifices that Americans are now making for Israel. Let Israel fight Iran -- no American tax dollars to be used for war with Iran. Israel has been the aggressor and attacked many countries in the middle east: Iran has attacked none! The author's premises are categorically propaganda. Trump has been and is a disaster for the U.S. There is nothing ethical to be found in any of his actions.
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  16. renfro says:

    Pardon me dear Ilana, but would you kindly blow your smoke up your own ass and not ours.

    Anyone want the real non biblical history of Jerusalem ?…the one agreed on by all creditable historians. Then follow the time line of Arabia in Thompson’s book below. It is the factual historical account acknowledged by all historians world wide. None of these dates or events or groups are disputed by any serious historian…..except of course by the Jewish myth makers.

    # Jerusalem was not founded by Jews, i.e. adherents of the Jewish religion. It was founded between 3000 BCE and 2600 BCE by a West Semitic people or possibly the Canaanites, the common ancestors of Palestinians, Lebanese, many Syrians and Jordanians, and many Jews. But when it was founded Jews did not exist.

    # Jerusalem was founded in honor of the ancient god Shalem. It does not mean City of Peace but rather ‘built-up place of Shalem.”

    # The “Jewish people” were not building Jerusalem 3000 years ago, i.e. 1000 BCE. First of all, it is not clear when exactly Judaism as a religion centered on the worship of the one God took firm form. It appears to have been a late development since no evidence of worship of anything but ordinary Canaanite deities has been found in archeological sites through 1000 BCE. There was no invasion of geographical Palestine from Egypt by former slaves in the 1200s BCE. The pyramids had been built much earlier and had not used slave labor. The chronicle of the events of the reign of Ramses II on the wall in Luxor does not know about any major slave revolts or flights by same into the Sinai peninsula. Egyptian sources never heard of Moses or the 10 plagues & etc. Jews and Judaism emerged from a certain social class of Canaanites over a period of centuries inside Palestine.

    # Jerusalem not only was not being built by the likely then non-existent “Jewish people” in 1000 BCE, but Jerusalem probably was not even inhabited at that point in history. Jerusalem appears to have been abandoned between 1000 BCE and 900 BCE, the traditional dates for the united kingdom under David and Solomon. So Jerusalem was not ‘the city of David,’ since there was no city when he is said to have lived. No sign of magnificent palaces or great states has been found in the archeology of this period, and the Assyrian tablets, which recorded even minor events throughout the Middle East, such as the actions of Arab queens, don’t know about any great kingdom of David and Solomon in geographical Palestine.

    # Since archeology does not show the existence of a Jewish kingdom or kingdoms in the so-called First Temple Period, it is not clear when exactly the Jewish people would have ruled Jerusalem except for the Hasmonean Kingdom.
    The Assyrians conquered Jerusalem in 722.
    The Babylonians took it in 597 and ruled it until they were themselves conquered in 539 BCE by the Achaemenids of ancient Iran, who ruled Jerusalem until Alexander the Great took the Levant in the 330s BCE.
    Alexander’s descendants, the Ptolemies ruled Jerusalem until 198 when Alexander’s other descendants, the Seleucids, took the city.
    With the Maccabean Revolt in 168 BCE, the Jewish Hasmonean kingdom did rule Jerusalem until 37 BCE, though Antigonus II Mattathias, the last Hasmonean, only took over Jerusalem with the help of the Parthian dynasty in 40 BCE.
    Herod ruled 37 BCE until the Romans conquered what they called Palestine in 6 CE (CE= ‘Common Era’ or what Christians call AD).
    The Romans and then the Eastern Roman Empire of Byzantium ruled Jerusalem from 6 CE until 614 CE when the Iranian Sasanian Empire Conquered it, ruling until 629 CE when the Byzantines took it back.

    #The Muslims conquered Jerusalem in 638 and ruled it until 1099 when the Crusaders conquered it.
    The Crusaders killed or expelled Jews and Muslims from the city.
    The Muslims under Saladin took it back in 1187 CE and allowed Jews to return, and Muslims ruled it until the end of World War I, or altogether for about 1192 years.

    #Adherents of Judaism did not found Jerusalem. It existed for perhaps 2700 years before anything we might recognize as Judaism arose. Jewish rule may have been no longer than 170 years or so, i.e., the kingdom of the Hasmoneans.

    # Therefore if historical building of Jerusalem and historical connection with Jerusalem establishes sovereignty over it as Netanyahu claims, here are the groups that have the greatest claim to the city:

    A. The Muslims, who ruled it and built it over 1191 years.

    B. The Egyptians, who ruled it as a vassal state for several hundred years in the second millennium BCE.

    C. The Italians, who ruled it about 444 years until the fall of the Roman Empire in 450 CE.

    D. The Iranians, who ruled it for 205 years under the Achaemenids, for three years under the Parthians (insofar as the last Hasmonean was actually their vassal), and for 15 years under the Sasanids.

    E. The Greeks, who ruled it for over 160 years if we count the Ptolemys and Seleucids as Greek. If we count them as Egyptians and Syrians, that would increase the Egyptian claim and introduce a Syrian one.

    F. The successor states to the Byzantines, which could be either Greece or Turkey, who ruled it 188 years, though if we consider the heir to be Greece and add in the time the Hellenistic Greek dynasties ruled it, that would give Greece nearly 350 years as ruler of Jerusalem.

    G. There is an Iraqi claim to Jerusalem based on the Assyrian and Babylonian conquests, as well as perhaps the rule of the Ayyubids (Saladin’s dynasty), who were Kurds from Iraq.

    Source, Thomas Thompson History of Arabia

    http://www.amazon.ca/gp/search?index=books&linkCode=qs&keywords=0567083608

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    • Agree: L.K
    • Replies: @Zumbuddi
    Excellent work, thanks, especially for identification of Thompson's [email protected]#t grinder.
    I spent the last 4 days trying to synchro use the timeline of of the 2 + 10 tribes of the habiru --- which means "nomad" or "thieves" depending on the evidence base of the author: archeologists report the earliest artifact bearing the word links it to "thieves."

    In my search I consulted only Jewish scholars, four of them They can't even agree on a basic timeline.

    Second only to the lie of the holohoax is the lie that Hebrew scriptures represent spirituality or ethics or morality, or a unique and core contribution to Western Civilization. The world would be a better place if Abraham's mother had had an abortion & Ezra never learned to write.

    , @helena
    I don't see why you put Italians third. I should think their postCE claim outweighs a BCE claim of about the same length.
    You don't indicate which Mulsim groups were in charge throughout the 1191yr peiod. If we takle Islam as a civilisation then the corresponding GrecoRomanChristian civilisation would add up to potentially 954.
    , @Pandos
    The jews started out as chroniclers and ended up thieves.
    , @Old Jew
    Correct!

    I have not read Thomas Thompson, but whatever history I read, provides the same timeline.

    Nevertheless I love my Bible.

    , @snag
    Great post! ,...

    Another eye-opening book on this subject by te same author: The Mythic Past: Biblical Archaeology And The Myth Of Israel by Thomas L. Thompson.

    https://www.amazon.com/Mythic-Past-Biblical-Archaeology-Israel/dp/0465006493
    , @jacques sheete
    Bravo! Great comment!

    Love the opening sentence!

    , @snag
    In many cases the occupied tribes or nations embraced the occupation like the Hebrews under Seleucid rule that traded with them with mutual benefits, mingled and intermarried making babies and converting to Hellenism or 'sprinkle' their Judaism with Hellenism, creating Hellenistic Judaism that combined Jewish religious tradition with elements of Greek culture. Under Seleucid rule it got to the point that Maccabees had to implement forced circumcision in overrun territories to reclaim their 'jews' that deserted to Hellenism. Needles to mention the Greeks created market for their products in Mediterranean Basin making them much better off financially and unhampered personally than under Judaism. The invaders/occupants weren't stupid the knew that native farmer knows the climate and conditions, what to plant and what grows, the fisherman knows where and what to fish for, the craftsmen knows what's needed by the local market, there's no time and no need to learn on the job. Someone have to support invaders.

    In 'The Mythic Past: Biblical Archaeology And The Myth Of Israel' Thompson insists that former Hebrews are the Palestinians today they converted to Islam to avoid taxes to feed their kids some to Christianity during Crusades conquest. Those faded faces you see there today are a squatters and sooner or later are going to leave.
    , @Alden
    Didn’t the Assyrians conquer Jerusalem in 870 BC? Or was that some other country?

    The wailing wall or what’s now called the remnant Temple wall was never part of a building. It’s part of a retaining wall built by Herod who was hated by the Jews because he was partly Arab.
    , @Cloak And Dagger
    Amazing factual comment, renfro, as usual. It definitely puts into perspective the jewish claim to jerusalem, a city they occupied for a scant few years. From the timeline, it would appear that they have the least claim of all people to the city.

    Excellent! Thank you!
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  17. Wonderful article: Zionist/Jewish propaganda at its best.

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    • Replies: @snag
    "Herod ruled 37 BCE" - Ironically the only monarch that build and left something there that we can touch and admire was an Arab.
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  18. renfro says:

    Jerusalem undivided as the capital of the Jewish State is what Christians should be praying for

    There you go again…liar, liar pants on fire!…naughty girlie.

    Its not the Muslims Christians fear its the Jews.

    ‘Jerusalem has to be shared’: Palestinian Christians decry Trump’

    https://www.alaraby.co.uk/…/palestinian-christians-decry-trumps-jerusalem-decision

    Dec 12, 2017 – Trump’s decision to recognise Jerusalem as Israel’s capital has left Palestinian Christians dismayed, with communities worried about their future in the city following the historic shift in … “We have to remind Mike Pence and others that Palestinians were the first church and the first followers of Jesus Christ.”.

    Why Christians are leaving occupied Palestine – Mondoweiss
    mondoweiss.net/2012/07/why-christians-are-leaving-occupied-palestine/
    Jul 1, 2012 – Palestinian Christians call themselves ‘living stones’ there, a term our media will never use as it publicizes their long long history there as the first Christians. Palestinian Bishop Ramzi R. Musallam: “I support Palestine the first land that accepted Jesus and followed Him. Palestine will be protected by Christ

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    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
    With spiritual power, renfro wrote: "Palestinian Christians call themselves ‘living stones’ there, a term our media will never use as it publicizes their long long history there as the first Christians. Palestinian Bishop Ramzi R. Musallam: “I support Palestine the first land that accepted Jesus and followed Him. Palestine will be protected by Christ."

    Hi renfro,

    Regret that I just read your comment # 18 because I tried to avoid Mercer' s prejudiced & & typically triumphalist Amerikan article.

    To start, in January 1981 I visited West Bank areas and while in Bethlehem I was informed by an enthusiastic native Christian fellow that his people refer to themselves as "Living Stones." I asked him "why is that?"

    Reply was, "Do you remember the Gospel part where Jesus said to people about the Truth? He explained how "Even the stones will speak."

    F.Y.I., on Saturday November 18, 2017, Palestinian Archbishop Ramzi R. Musallam was in Scranton and co-celabrated Divine Liturgy at a small mission Church for the poor & outcasts, located on the corner of Main and Jackson street.

    At present I am waiting to meet with the Archbishop and discuss a possible service (mission) for me in service to the Palestinian Orthodox Church. Ramzi is aware of my willingness to "relocate" including faraway places such as Hebron.

    Thanks very much for your rock solid words, renfro.
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  19. Unbelievable, not recognising Gaza as the biggest and oldest concentration camp on earth.
    Israel is doomed, with friends like this.

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  20. renfro says:

    P.S.

    The Jews have always hated Christians . So much for the myth of the poor innocent Jews persecuted for no reason.

    c.930: Patriarch Eutychius of Alexandria, Eutychii Annales:

    CHAPTER II: ADVERSITIES OF THE CHURCH.: 1 Persecutions of the Christians.: …The Christians suffered less in this than in the preceding centuries. …In the East especially in Syria and Palestine the Jews sometimes rose upon the Christians with great violence (Eutyrhius, Annales ii., p. 236, Jo. Henr. Hottinger, Historia Orientalis, lib. p. 129, ) ….yet so unsuccessfully as to suffer severely for their temerity. (Mosheim 1847, p. 426, at Google Books)

    James Parkes described the slaughter of Christians by Jews in his book, A History of Palestine from 135 AD to Modern Times :

    “60,000 Christians were murdered by Jews at the Mamilla Pool in Palestine. A precise number is of course hard to say but Israeli archaeologist Ronny Reich puts the tally at 60,000 before the Persian military stopped the carnage.

    One eyewitness, Strategius of St. Sabas, wrote: “Jews ransomed the Christians from the hands of the Persian soldiers for good money, and slaughtered them with great joy at Mamilla Pool, and it ran with blood.”

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    • Replies: @Seraphim
    The trouble is that Muslims always hated the Christians also. In that respect they are like the Jews. That's why they got along so well for a long time, allied in the common exploitation of the Christian populations.
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  21. utu says:

    Justice for Palestinians!

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  22. EolAwki says:

    “Jews Must Never Forget Trump for Remembering Our Unforgettable Jerusalem”

    Neither must we Goys. It must also not be forgotten that those occupying “Israel” today have little-to-no Semitic blood in them, being people with European genetics instead. They are imposters, just as their ‘Jewish regime’ is illegal. being usurped from the Palestinians in the late 40s.

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  23. Ace says:

    Israel acquired sovereignty over its territory like most every other nations on earth, namely, by military conquest and a dash of terror and one-way land purchase. Nothing over which Israelis enjoy a monopoly. They did also have some strange belief they had a right to show up in Palestine or “Palestine” in the thousands. Local Arabs not unreasonably wondered why that was exactly.

    Historical or biblical claims are meaningless. Jews got kicked out of that neck of the woods a long time ago and that was it as regards any of such claims. People who nurse dreams of recovering lands they or their very distant ancestors lost are a dime a dozen. If you want land “back” you take it in the time-honored human way.

    I’m not up on genetics but I get the impression that Khazarian Jews have no historical connection to Israel at all, so it definitely is just sovereignty based on military force in the main with credible allegations of harsh Jewish methods at the outset to encourage Arabs to flee. At this point, what difference does it make? Mazeltov to the conquerors, with or without a connection, and if the Muslims are torqued it’s of little concern to any kuffar as dhimmi status (or worse) would be the rule if Arabs were top dog.

    If Israel wants to call Jerusalem its capital for any reason that’s a power that goes with sovereignty. If the S. African government says Pretoria is the capital of S.A. then it makes no sense for Trump to order the U.S. embassy to be in Durban. Ditto re Jerusalem and Tell Aviv. Don’t read anything else into it.

    And Benedict is a vicious dissembler.

    I agree everyone should live in peace. However, I don’t think Israel’s bombing Syria ad libidum, supporting terrorists in Syria, and working toward a balkanized Syria with a powerful ISIS component can be seen as wanting to “live in peace” with anyone. Clearly Israel also wants to pick a fight with Iran and, of course, hold our coat while we do the fighting for you.

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    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    Land purchase by zionists ?
    Officiallly just seven percent of the land called Israel inside the 1967 cease fire lines is jewish property.
    And even this is very questionable.
    Around 1860 the Ottomans wanted land registered, for taxes, and military service.
    The Palestinians boycotted.
    The Ottoman tax farmers in Beirut then registered the land in their own names, and 'sold' to zionist settlers.
    The Palestinian owners were driven out by Ottoman gendarmes and soldiers.
    The Palestinians resisted, and so the first armed conflict between Palestinians and zionists was already in 1880, Petah Tikvah.
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  24. sarz says:

    Since unz is a free speech site, it’s only fitting that Judaic loonies be given space here as well, at least once in a while, if only to let readers have a chance to respond, that the Judaic media would never allow.

    Suppose you got a few million people in India convinced that G_d had made an announcement that Manhattan was their gift from him. And once in a while over many years the topic came up in casual conversation. What would it take for the Judaic author to concede their right to take the whole place over, expelling the natives except for a few pushed onto Governor’s Island, where they were penned without access to much anything including water, and bombed every few years to “mow the grass”?

    What if it turned out they were confusing Manhattan with some other place?

    See Kamal Salibi’s book, The Bible Came from Arabia. There is one copy at Amazon. Or see this 1984 review of his book, at https://csmonitor.com/1984/0831/083139.html.

    Or, see this by Ashraf Ezzat: https://ashraf62.wordpress.com/2017/12/08/mr-trump-jerusalem-is-not-the-capital-of-biblical-israel/

    Turns out the original Jerusalem is not in Palestine. It’s in Yemen. The whole lot of trouble-making Jews were brought from there, with its main village Ur-Salem, to Babylon. It’s called the Babylonian captivity and it lasted almost a hundred years. They then headed back home, except their IQs must have been much lower back then. They landed up many hundred miles from home, in Palestine.

    The second temple was built there. The silly putzlette quotes “If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, let my right hand forget her cunning.” Okay, then, so be it with her hand. And those of fellow Judaics of the last two and a half thousand years. Amen!

    And even in al Quds, the Judaics are pretending that the walls of the old Roman fort, all that was left of so-called Jerusalem by the time the Romans were done with it, and as Jesus had foretold, not one stone left on another, they are pretending that this is the remains of their second temple. It’s not a matter of forgetting this time. Everyone whom one would expect to be well-informed knows very well that the temple was located about a mile away, near a stream. But pretending it’s the fort gives more scope for Judaic mischief.

    In any case, most of the ‘Israelis’ are Turks from Ashkenaz, and not at all the descendants of Abraham. You’re not allowed to bring that up, of course. It’s antisemitic. To say Ashkenazis are not really semites. Go figure.

    These people are a real nuisance. I think Trump is pretending to be on their side while he gets America’s act together. They should be sent back to Poland. Or to a place they are actually entitled to, Birobidzhan.

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    • Replies: @Alden
    It’s actually a retaining wall built to stabilize the hill the fort was on.
    , @snag
    Not so fast, here's another fairytale ,...

    Research Reveals Ancient Struggle over Holy Land Supremacy
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/new-research-shows-that-jerusalem-may-not-be-the-first-temple-a-827144-2.html
    , @snag
    "They should be sent back to Poland" - No one invited them there and nobody missed, keep them or find them place, preferably on another planet.
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  25. There’s a reason Muslims living in Israel proper—1.5 million of them—don’t migrate to the adjacent Palestinian Authority. They’re better off in Israel.

    Erm..they don’t go over to Palestinian controlled territory because why should they, exactly? I mean most of them have always lived where they currently live in Israel. It is, and I emphasize this point, their land.

    So what you are basically saying is why don’t they f**k off to West bank? Like why don’t the Blacks f**k off to somewhere else. Or the Chinese. Or the Jews?

    And need I remind you that West bank and Gaza are unlivable because they are basically a cluster of Bantustans kept in economic choke hold by…who exactly?

    Talk about inverting the truth.

    Listen we get it that you want Jerusalem to remain under Israeli control. As long as the Palestinians are allowed to stay as equal citizens (which you more or less agree to), this isn’t exactly a catastrophe. But spare us the BS justifications.

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  26. dearieme says:

    Is treating the Old Testament as history a sign of madness? Or at least of lack of capacity for critical thinking?

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  27. iffen says:
    @German_reader
    Muslims, Jews...you both need to leave Jerusalem. Once that pathetic antipope Francis is gone, the next pontiff should find some suitable French aristocrats and declare a new crusade...the kingdom of Jerusalem must be reestablished.

    LOL

    Maybe if you provided a few German princes to go along with the French aristocrats the group might make it a few miles before someone took their lunch money.

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  28. Greg Bacon says: • Website

    What is is about the Jewish DNA that requires them to be in the spotlight 24/7, with the entire world always hearing their complaints, whining, historical hallucinations, bitching, demands, threats, more demands and always threatening their neighbors with an invasion or a good bombing or some Mossad assassination or pulling off some False Flag which the Jewish media always blames on the Muslim world, which gives Israel the cover it needs to steal more of Syria or Palestine or Lebanon?

    There’s a reason that Jews have been kicked out of over 100 cities, states and nations over the centuries and until the Jews look into the mirror and figure out THEY need to change their violently aggressive character, illusions about history and they way they interact with GOYIM, the world will not know peace.

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  29. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Christ destroyed the Jews. The Jews no longer exist. And as such the posers who claim to be Jews are not entitled to spit.

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  30. Shazad says:

    The author forgets the little bit of intervening history that goes like this . . . After the Jews start misbehaving God kicks the Jews out of the Holy City (Al Quds), twice. Because their status in the Holy City was conditional (weird how God’s privileges come with strings attached, just like one would expect). Once, at the hands of the Babylonians; upon forgiveness and reinstatement, they are kicked out again for their collective crime of killing John the Baptist and, according to Muslims, trying to kill Jesus (according to Christians, succeeding).

    By the way, the reverential Dr. Daniel Pipes is a well know Orientalist (aka Muslim hater). It doesn’t add much to add him as a reference to an Islam/Muslim hating article.

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  31. Dr. Doom says:

    Are they going to forget he didn’t get any of his allies to follow him before he decided to do this?
    I’m trying to forget that myself. He did manage to get Guatemala, AKA the worst country on Earth and apparently in The Sixth World all by itself.
    How did he not get Canada? The Prime Minister is the son of the woman who is the punch line for just about every Canadian joke I’ve heard my entire life. If I was President, I could probably get this dork to make beer runs for me.

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  32. anon • Disclaimer says:

    Why doesn’t “unoccupied” Palestinian land look like Beirut?

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  33. Jake says:

    The title of this article proclaims a great truth, and in so doing, it draws attention to the fact that Jews – certainly those who lead and are followed – invariably do the opposite. Jews can be counted on to bite off the nose of friends, at times because of ancient enmity and at other times just to show who’s boss. And it always ends up playing out as Jews biting off their own noses to spite their own Jewish faces.

    In short, Jewish liberalism, particularly transforming the various non-white peoples and non-Christian religions into sacred cows that are encouraged at every turn to bash Whitey and demand Christian castrate itself, will eventually lead to a blowback enevloping Jews that could make the period 1933-1945 seem like a pretty good time.

    And that blowback will not be lead by any group of white Gentiles. It will be the various brown and black Moslems, with Asians joining the fun, hoping to secure major spoils. The blowback’s main thrust will be about skin pigmentation and wealth controlled by those who have white skins.

    That slaughter will not commence until after both Europe and the US are filled with Moslems, who have been granted special rights and privileges as ‘victims’ of the West.

    And when it ignites, Jewish power in the European capitals and, especially, America, will be the focuses. Only after that absorbs the ‘racist’ white nations in a desperate battle to survive, which will require them to be mean to their own delightful Moslem citizens and legal residents, will the several millions of Arabs rush toward Israel in a giant suicide bombing.

    The Sunni militants the Israelis think they are making their friends by helping them try to destroy Iran will be happy to die by the millions to ‘free Jerusalem’ and exterminate Jews from Palestine.

    Yes, Israel could win by using its illegally acquired nukes, but i winning that way, Israel destroys itself forever.

    Jews are every bit as insanely suicidal as Swedes or Germans or white American Liberals, or Catholic Liberals like Pope Francis and Jesuit priests Antonio Spadaro and James Martin.

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    • Replies: @Alden
    There is a reason why the rich Saudis Kuwaitis etc are subsidizing huge Muslim Arab settlement all around DC. It’s to establish a presence to offset the Jewish occupation of our government.

    They are doing exactly what the Jews did in the 20th century, endless whining and complaining coupled with massive bribery. Hopefully it will work someday.
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  34. Jerusalem belongs equally to Christians, Moslems and Jews and isn’t any safer in the hands of Zionists than it would be in the hands of the Saudis.

    Let it become (and it will) an international city for people of all the Abrahamic faiths to enjoy and worship in freely.

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    • Agree: Talha
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  35. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Just me
    Wtf is this

    Clickbait.

    Time to have Mr. Unz choose a fresh version of The Mercer Image?

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  36. wayfarer says:

    Abrahamism, the world’s oldest racket;

    infringing on mankind’s free will for 2700 years;

    maintaining the status-quo of a human spirit, divided and conquered;

    suppressing boundless truth, imaginative creativity, and open-minded critical thinking;

    offering ignorant ideology, stale dogma, rose-colored myths, and toxic certitude;

    providing its rabbis, priests, and imams with a thimble full of love/wisdom, and the “sacred” least-common-denominator with which to produce equivalent-fractions in the form of blind followers.

    source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abrahamic_religions

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  37. Indeed, not once is Jerusalem mentioned in the Quran. And while Muhammad was said to have departed to the heavens from the Al Aksa Mosque, there was no mosque in Jerusalem.

    Wrong!

    According to Islam 101, “The Farthest Mosque” is in the Quran. Throughout the complete life of Mohammad, he and all Muslims used to pray towards “The Farthest Mosque”. Almost at the end of Mohammad’s life when Mecca was conquered and all the idols destroyed, then the direction was changed to Mecca. Again, this is in the Quran too.

    70 years is a page in the history, and the testimonial to this is the recent downing of IAF F16. Another CCR song, “I ain’t lying….” comes to mind, along with the recent song of CCR by Mr. Phil Giraldi, “Bad Moon Rising…”

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  38. Zumbuddi says:
    @renfro
    Pardon me dear Ilana, but would you kindly blow your smoke up your own ass and not ours.

    Anyone want the real non biblical history of Jerusalem ?...the one agreed on by all creditable historians. Then follow the time line of Arabia in Thompson's book below. It is the factual historical account acknowledged by all historians world wide. None of these dates or events or groups are disputed by any serious historian.....except of course by the Jewish myth makers.

    # Jerusalem was not founded by Jews, i.e. adherents of the Jewish religion. It was founded between 3000 BCE and 2600 BCE by a West Semitic people or possibly the Canaanites, the common ancestors of Palestinians, Lebanese, many Syrians and Jordanians, and many Jews. But when it was founded Jews did not exist.

    # Jerusalem was founded in honor of the ancient god Shalem. It does not mean City of Peace but rather ‘built-up place of Shalem.”

    # The “Jewish people” were not building Jerusalem 3000 years ago, i.e. 1000 BCE. First of all, it is not clear when exactly Judaism as a religion centered on the worship of the one God took firm form. It appears to have been a late development since no evidence of worship of anything but ordinary Canaanite deities has been found in archeological sites through 1000 BCE. There was no invasion of geographical Palestine from Egypt by former slaves in the 1200s BCE. The pyramids had been built much earlier and had not used slave labor. The chronicle of the events of the reign of Ramses II on the wall in Luxor does not know about any major slave revolts or flights by same into the Sinai peninsula. Egyptian sources never heard of Moses or the 10 plagues & etc. Jews and Judaism emerged from a certain social class of Canaanites over a period of centuries inside Palestine.

    # Jerusalem not only was not being built by the likely then non-existent “Jewish people” in 1000 BCE, but Jerusalem probably was not even inhabited at that point in history. Jerusalem appears to have been abandoned between 1000 BCE and 900 BCE, the traditional dates for the united kingdom under David and Solomon. So Jerusalem was not ‘the city of David,’ since there was no city when he is said to have lived. No sign of magnificent palaces or great states has been found in the archeology of this period, and the Assyrian tablets, which recorded even minor events throughout the Middle East, such as the actions of Arab queens, don’t know about any great kingdom of David and Solomon in geographical Palestine.

    # Since archeology does not show the existence of a Jewish kingdom or kingdoms in the so-called First Temple Period, it is not clear when exactly the Jewish people would have ruled Jerusalem except for the Hasmonean Kingdom.
    The Assyrians conquered Jerusalem in 722.
    The Babylonians took it in 597 and ruled it until they were themselves conquered in 539 BCE by the Achaemenids of ancient Iran, who ruled Jerusalem until Alexander the Great took the Levant in the 330s BCE.
    Alexander’s descendants, the Ptolemies ruled Jerusalem until 198 when Alexander’s other descendants, the Seleucids, took the city.
    With the Maccabean Revolt in 168 BCE, the Jewish Hasmonean kingdom did rule Jerusalem until 37 BCE, though Antigonus II Mattathias, the last Hasmonean, only took over Jerusalem with the help of the Parthian dynasty in 40 BCE.
    Herod ruled 37 BCE until the Romans conquered what they called Palestine in 6 CE (CE= ‘Common Era’ or what Christians call AD).
    The Romans and then the Eastern Roman Empire of Byzantium ruled Jerusalem from 6 CE until 614 CE when the Iranian Sasanian Empire Conquered it, ruling until 629 CE when the Byzantines took it back.

    #The Muslims conquered Jerusalem in 638 and ruled it until 1099 when the Crusaders conquered it.
    The Crusaders killed or expelled Jews and Muslims from the city.
    The Muslims under Saladin took it back in 1187 CE and allowed Jews to return, and Muslims ruled it until the end of World War I, or altogether for about 1192 years.

    #Adherents of Judaism did not found Jerusalem. It existed for perhaps 2700 years before anything we might recognize as Judaism arose. Jewish rule may have been no longer than 170 years or so, i.e., the kingdom of the Hasmoneans.

    # Therefore if historical building of Jerusalem and historical connection with Jerusalem establishes sovereignty over it as Netanyahu claims, here are the groups that have the greatest claim to the city:

    A. The Muslims, who ruled it and built it over 1191 years.

    B. The Egyptians, who ruled it as a vassal state for several hundred years in the second millennium BCE.

    C. The Italians, who ruled it about 444 years until the fall of the Roman Empire in 450 CE.

    D. The Iranians, who ruled it for 205 years under the Achaemenids, for three years under the Parthians (insofar as the last Hasmonean was actually their vassal), and for 15 years under the Sasanids.

    E. The Greeks, who ruled it for over 160 years if we count the Ptolemys and Seleucids as Greek. If we count them as Egyptians and Syrians, that would increase the Egyptian claim and introduce a Syrian one.

    F. The successor states to the Byzantines, which could be either Greece or Turkey, who ruled it 188 years, though if we consider the heir to be Greece and add in the time the Hellenistic Greek dynasties ruled it, that would give Greece nearly 350 years as ruler of Jerusalem.

    G. There is an Iraqi claim to Jerusalem based on the Assyrian and Babylonian conquests, as well as perhaps the rule of the Ayyubids (Saladin’s dynasty), who were Kurds from Iraq.

    Source, Thomas Thompson History of Arabia
    http://www.amazon.ca/gp/search?index=books&linkCode=qs&keywords=0567083608

    Excellent work, thanks, especially for identification of Thompson’s [email protected]#t grinder.
    I spent the last 4 days trying to synchro use the timeline of of the 2 + 10 tribes of the habiru — which means “nomad” or “thieves” depending on the evidence base of the author: archeologists report the earliest artifact bearing the word links it to “thieves.”

    In my search I consulted only Jewish scholars, four of them They can’t even agree on a basic timeline.

    Second only to the lie of the holohoax is the lie that Hebrew scriptures represent spirituality or ethics or morality, or a unique and core contribution to Western Civilization. The world would be a better place if Abraham’s mother had had an abortion & Ezra never learned to write.

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    • Replies: @Alden
    I noticed Abraham the original dead beat Dad who kicked his sex slave Hagar and his toddler son Ishmael out to die of thirst and dehydration in the desert when I was about 7. Maybe it was because I loved my baby sister so much at the time and identified Ishmael with her. My thought was who could kick a cute loveable toddler out to die in the desert? Then the crazy evil old coot wanted to kill his Jewish son.

    There are not suitable for children warnings on movies and Tv shows. It should be on the entire OT; X rated

    Are there any parts of the OT where people are just average decent? Or is it just slay rape and slay again?
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  39. @anon
    High level question: The year's 2050. What does the Israel Palestine situation most probably look like?

    Possibilities:

    1 Looks like the current status quo. Current borders intact. More settlement building. "Occupation" continues.
    2 They have agreed to two sovereign states with defined borders.
    3 The two populations have merged into one state with equal rights for all citizens.
    4 The Palestinians have been ethnically cleansed from the West Bank and/or Gaza, and fled to Jordan/Egypt/USA/Europe (Probably on pretext of war).
    5 Some combination of these or additional options?

    4

    Unless we stop them.

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  40. Well?
    I would put it this way.
    All ruins in Jerusalem are from buildings what Jews did built.
    So Jerusalem must be Jewish.
    Jaaaaaaaaaaa!
    There were all kinds of kingdoms that did rule that area but they were not building too much there.
    They were only steeling goats from Jews.
    Eventually Muslims did built some mosque there and Christians built some churches but that is all right. Jews did not demolish them.

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    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
    I hate when they steel my goats. They'd better not try to brass them, either.
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  41. Joe Hide says:

    Weird, rambling, strange, off-point. I generally give Mercer high marks.

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    • Agree: Ace
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  42. helena says:
    @renfro
    Pardon me dear Ilana, but would you kindly blow your smoke up your own ass and not ours.

    Anyone want the real non biblical history of Jerusalem ?...the one agreed on by all creditable historians. Then follow the time line of Arabia in Thompson's book below. It is the factual historical account acknowledged by all historians world wide. None of these dates or events or groups are disputed by any serious historian.....except of course by the Jewish myth makers.

    # Jerusalem was not founded by Jews, i.e. adherents of the Jewish religion. It was founded between 3000 BCE and 2600 BCE by a West Semitic people or possibly the Canaanites, the common ancestors of Palestinians, Lebanese, many Syrians and Jordanians, and many Jews. But when it was founded Jews did not exist.

    # Jerusalem was founded in honor of the ancient god Shalem. It does not mean City of Peace but rather ‘built-up place of Shalem.”

    # The “Jewish people” were not building Jerusalem 3000 years ago, i.e. 1000 BCE. First of all, it is not clear when exactly Judaism as a religion centered on the worship of the one God took firm form. It appears to have been a late development since no evidence of worship of anything but ordinary Canaanite deities has been found in archeological sites through 1000 BCE. There was no invasion of geographical Palestine from Egypt by former slaves in the 1200s BCE. The pyramids had been built much earlier and had not used slave labor. The chronicle of the events of the reign of Ramses II on the wall in Luxor does not know about any major slave revolts or flights by same into the Sinai peninsula. Egyptian sources never heard of Moses or the 10 plagues & etc. Jews and Judaism emerged from a certain social class of Canaanites over a period of centuries inside Palestine.

    # Jerusalem not only was not being built by the likely then non-existent “Jewish people” in 1000 BCE, but Jerusalem probably was not even inhabited at that point in history. Jerusalem appears to have been abandoned between 1000 BCE and 900 BCE, the traditional dates for the united kingdom under David and Solomon. So Jerusalem was not ‘the city of David,’ since there was no city when he is said to have lived. No sign of magnificent palaces or great states has been found in the archeology of this period, and the Assyrian tablets, which recorded even minor events throughout the Middle East, such as the actions of Arab queens, don’t know about any great kingdom of David and Solomon in geographical Palestine.

    # Since archeology does not show the existence of a Jewish kingdom or kingdoms in the so-called First Temple Period, it is not clear when exactly the Jewish people would have ruled Jerusalem except for the Hasmonean Kingdom.
    The Assyrians conquered Jerusalem in 722.
    The Babylonians took it in 597 and ruled it until they were themselves conquered in 539 BCE by the Achaemenids of ancient Iran, who ruled Jerusalem until Alexander the Great took the Levant in the 330s BCE.
    Alexander’s descendants, the Ptolemies ruled Jerusalem until 198 when Alexander’s other descendants, the Seleucids, took the city.
    With the Maccabean Revolt in 168 BCE, the Jewish Hasmonean kingdom did rule Jerusalem until 37 BCE, though Antigonus II Mattathias, the last Hasmonean, only took over Jerusalem with the help of the Parthian dynasty in 40 BCE.
    Herod ruled 37 BCE until the Romans conquered what they called Palestine in 6 CE (CE= ‘Common Era’ or what Christians call AD).
    The Romans and then the Eastern Roman Empire of Byzantium ruled Jerusalem from 6 CE until 614 CE when the Iranian Sasanian Empire Conquered it, ruling until 629 CE when the Byzantines took it back.

    #The Muslims conquered Jerusalem in 638 and ruled it until 1099 when the Crusaders conquered it.
    The Crusaders killed or expelled Jews and Muslims from the city.
    The Muslims under Saladin took it back in 1187 CE and allowed Jews to return, and Muslims ruled it until the end of World War I, or altogether for about 1192 years.

    #Adherents of Judaism did not found Jerusalem. It existed for perhaps 2700 years before anything we might recognize as Judaism arose. Jewish rule may have been no longer than 170 years or so, i.e., the kingdom of the Hasmoneans.

    # Therefore if historical building of Jerusalem and historical connection with Jerusalem establishes sovereignty over it as Netanyahu claims, here are the groups that have the greatest claim to the city:

    A. The Muslims, who ruled it and built it over 1191 years.

    B. The Egyptians, who ruled it as a vassal state for several hundred years in the second millennium BCE.

    C. The Italians, who ruled it about 444 years until the fall of the Roman Empire in 450 CE.

    D. The Iranians, who ruled it for 205 years under the Achaemenids, for three years under the Parthians (insofar as the last Hasmonean was actually their vassal), and for 15 years under the Sasanids.

    E. The Greeks, who ruled it for over 160 years if we count the Ptolemys and Seleucids as Greek. If we count them as Egyptians and Syrians, that would increase the Egyptian claim and introduce a Syrian one.

    F. The successor states to the Byzantines, which could be either Greece or Turkey, who ruled it 188 years, though if we consider the heir to be Greece and add in the time the Hellenistic Greek dynasties ruled it, that would give Greece nearly 350 years as ruler of Jerusalem.

    G. There is an Iraqi claim to Jerusalem based on the Assyrian and Babylonian conquests, as well as perhaps the rule of the Ayyubids (Saladin’s dynasty), who were Kurds from Iraq.

    Source, Thomas Thompson History of Arabia
    http://www.amazon.ca/gp/search?index=books&linkCode=qs&keywords=0567083608

    I don’t see why you put Italians third. I should think their postCE claim outweighs a BCE claim of about the same length.
    You don’t indicate which Mulsim groups were in charge throughout the 1191yr peiod. If we takle Islam as a civilisation then the corresponding GrecoRomanChristian civilisation would add up to potentially 954.

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  43. @Biff
    One has to stand back in awe of the greatest bullshit story ever told. The champion of false promises and exaggerated claims - Religion.

    Not my words.

    George was on a roll there, it’s one of my favourite bits.

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  44. The author’s attempt to hijack the Catholic Church and use it as a mere instrument for the advancement of Jewish interests will undoubtedly annoy many Catholics worldwide.

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  45. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    All the zionist liars get lost!!!!!!!

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  46. @Talha
    LOOL! Yo, come getcha some boy!

    This will of course help French population take an even steeper nosedive as its young men are sent into the Middle East meat grinder.

    Peace.

    It wasn’t exactly a serious proposal. I don’t care much about Jerusalem, but at least in theory I’d be in favour of either some internationalization of the city, or East Jerusalem being part of a Palestinian state. Both are unlikely to happen though.

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    • Replies: @Talha
    I know G_R, my response was also not too serious. I'd rather not be in a situation where the Muslim world is obligated to kill a bunch of well-armed, invading Europeans again.

    The Europe that would go to arms because encroaching Seljuks were stopping their religious pilgrimages are gone - long gone. I don't know if they'll ever return. When one is fighting unconsciousness while bleeding out, looking at a charred stump that used to be their arm, they ponder things like; why did I come here? If they do, we can consider these possibilities in a more serious manner since the Muslims that are willing to die for the right to the city are...well, we got quite a bit (perhaps too many for comfort).

    I'm for a more equitable internationalization of the city to resolve matters without bloodshed. It is clear that the Israelis cannot make steps on their own, they need a bunch of big guys in their corner in order to counter the Muslim 'hordes'. This is what Ms. Mercer's article is about; it is an appeal to Zionist-minded Christians. The local Churches of the East are clear on the matter, they are either on the side of the Palestinians or neutral, but none that I can think of support Israeli annexation of Jerusalem. Neither is it supported by the UN - it will never pass.

    Let's give it a couple more generations and see what comes out...we're in no rush, we're going nowhere.

    Peace.
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  47. Pandos says:
    @renfro
    Pardon me dear Ilana, but would you kindly blow your smoke up your own ass and not ours.

    Anyone want the real non biblical history of Jerusalem ?...the one agreed on by all creditable historians. Then follow the time line of Arabia in Thompson's book below. It is the factual historical account acknowledged by all historians world wide. None of these dates or events or groups are disputed by any serious historian.....except of course by the Jewish myth makers.

    # Jerusalem was not founded by Jews, i.e. adherents of the Jewish religion. It was founded between 3000 BCE and 2600 BCE by a West Semitic people or possibly the Canaanites, the common ancestors of Palestinians, Lebanese, many Syrians and Jordanians, and many Jews. But when it was founded Jews did not exist.

    # Jerusalem was founded in honor of the ancient god Shalem. It does not mean City of Peace but rather ‘built-up place of Shalem.”

    # The “Jewish people” were not building Jerusalem 3000 years ago, i.e. 1000 BCE. First of all, it is not clear when exactly Judaism as a religion centered on the worship of the one God took firm form. It appears to have been a late development since no evidence of worship of anything but ordinary Canaanite deities has been found in archeological sites through 1000 BCE. There was no invasion of geographical Palestine from Egypt by former slaves in the 1200s BCE. The pyramids had been built much earlier and had not used slave labor. The chronicle of the events of the reign of Ramses II on the wall in Luxor does not know about any major slave revolts or flights by same into the Sinai peninsula. Egyptian sources never heard of Moses or the 10 plagues & etc. Jews and Judaism emerged from a certain social class of Canaanites over a period of centuries inside Palestine.

    # Jerusalem not only was not being built by the likely then non-existent “Jewish people” in 1000 BCE, but Jerusalem probably was not even inhabited at that point in history. Jerusalem appears to have been abandoned between 1000 BCE and 900 BCE, the traditional dates for the united kingdom under David and Solomon. So Jerusalem was not ‘the city of David,’ since there was no city when he is said to have lived. No sign of magnificent palaces or great states has been found in the archeology of this period, and the Assyrian tablets, which recorded even minor events throughout the Middle East, such as the actions of Arab queens, don’t know about any great kingdom of David and Solomon in geographical Palestine.

    # Since archeology does not show the existence of a Jewish kingdom or kingdoms in the so-called First Temple Period, it is not clear when exactly the Jewish people would have ruled Jerusalem except for the Hasmonean Kingdom.
    The Assyrians conquered Jerusalem in 722.
    The Babylonians took it in 597 and ruled it until they were themselves conquered in 539 BCE by the Achaemenids of ancient Iran, who ruled Jerusalem until Alexander the Great took the Levant in the 330s BCE.
    Alexander’s descendants, the Ptolemies ruled Jerusalem until 198 when Alexander’s other descendants, the Seleucids, took the city.
    With the Maccabean Revolt in 168 BCE, the Jewish Hasmonean kingdom did rule Jerusalem until 37 BCE, though Antigonus II Mattathias, the last Hasmonean, only took over Jerusalem with the help of the Parthian dynasty in 40 BCE.
    Herod ruled 37 BCE until the Romans conquered what they called Palestine in 6 CE (CE= ‘Common Era’ or what Christians call AD).
    The Romans and then the Eastern Roman Empire of Byzantium ruled Jerusalem from 6 CE until 614 CE when the Iranian Sasanian Empire Conquered it, ruling until 629 CE when the Byzantines took it back.

    #The Muslims conquered Jerusalem in 638 and ruled it until 1099 when the Crusaders conquered it.
    The Crusaders killed or expelled Jews and Muslims from the city.
    The Muslims under Saladin took it back in 1187 CE and allowed Jews to return, and Muslims ruled it until the end of World War I, or altogether for about 1192 years.

    #Adherents of Judaism did not found Jerusalem. It existed for perhaps 2700 years before anything we might recognize as Judaism arose. Jewish rule may have been no longer than 170 years or so, i.e., the kingdom of the Hasmoneans.

    # Therefore if historical building of Jerusalem and historical connection with Jerusalem establishes sovereignty over it as Netanyahu claims, here are the groups that have the greatest claim to the city:

    A. The Muslims, who ruled it and built it over 1191 years.

    B. The Egyptians, who ruled it as a vassal state for several hundred years in the second millennium BCE.

    C. The Italians, who ruled it about 444 years until the fall of the Roman Empire in 450 CE.

    D. The Iranians, who ruled it for 205 years under the Achaemenids, for three years under the Parthians (insofar as the last Hasmonean was actually their vassal), and for 15 years under the Sasanids.

    E. The Greeks, who ruled it for over 160 years if we count the Ptolemys and Seleucids as Greek. If we count them as Egyptians and Syrians, that would increase the Egyptian claim and introduce a Syrian one.

    F. The successor states to the Byzantines, which could be either Greece or Turkey, who ruled it 188 years, though if we consider the heir to be Greece and add in the time the Hellenistic Greek dynasties ruled it, that would give Greece nearly 350 years as ruler of Jerusalem.

    G. There is an Iraqi claim to Jerusalem based on the Assyrian and Babylonian conquests, as well as perhaps the rule of the Ayyubids (Saladin’s dynasty), who were Kurds from Iraq.

    Source, Thomas Thompson History of Arabia
    http://www.amazon.ca/gp/search?index=books&linkCode=qs&keywords=0567083608

    The jews started out as chroniclers and ended up thieves.

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  48. Most important news of the day!!!!!
    Changing direction? Unraveling?

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/02/22/mccain-associate-takes-fifth-on-trump-dossier-questions.html

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  49. Tyrion 2 says:
    @Talha
    Very interesting article. This of course may work for its appeal to Western audiences - Daniel Pipes doesn’t really get to declare what we believe is sacred or not.

    But at some point you have to sell it to the Muslims, 1.6 billion of them. The argument is not very convincing from our perspective since we believe those were our prophets and the city is sacred to us as well. You can call it cultural appropriation or whatever, but that kind of nonsense works with Western audiences, not us. I’d honestly like to go the sharing route, but if the Israelis insist on Jewish-only control, well - that’s simply not acceptable. We’ve got time, we’re not going anywhere - we’ll wait...and fight. Your move...

    Peace.

    The argument is not very convincing from our perspective since we believe those were our prophets and the city is sacred to us as well.

    Islam is to Judaism what the Jason Momoa ‘Conan’ is to the Schwarzenegger original. Overwrought, pointlessly violent, devoid of all wit, charm and an obvious exercise in a group of very dull people missing the point.

    That Muslims think their cheap knock-off means that they have some sort of spiritual connection to Jerusalem makes as much sense as me having the right to the Great Wall of China because I can, like an idiot, paint myself yellow and squint my eyes.

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    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey Tyrion2,

    You consider us a knock-off, that idea was never entertained by us - we are far, far bigger than a Semitic narrative. Judaism is a (prominent) branch of Islam. Islam is the original package, it has come full circle, we are as old as mankind itself. We claim a spiritual connection and right to all of God's emissaries - all of them.

    You have opinions, we have them too.

    Like I mentioned before, we are under sacred obligation to recognize the rights of Christians and Jews to the city - they are under no similar obligation from their side. If you want to fight for it - don't waste our time trying to dissect our tradition through your own lens - just man up and say so...if you've been paying attention, there hasn't been a dance in that area that we've sat out; Byzantines, Latins, Mongols, etc. What's it worth to you? I mean in your own lives, not in the lives of Christians that you use as proxies...

    "O people, do not desire to meet the enemy, but rather ask Allah for security. If you meet your enemy in battle, then be patient and know that Paradise is under the shade of swords." - reported in Bukhari & Muslim

    Peace.

    , @jacques sheete

    ...because I can, like an idiot, paint myself yellow and squint my eyes.
     
    Sounds like the voice of experience. you probably do most things as an idiot would do them.
    , @AaronB

    devoid of all wit, charm
     
    Compared to judaism??? Lol.

    Judaism has no art or poetry or architecture - Islam excels in all three. Jews are slovenly and rude and unaestnetic. Charm - lol.

    Call Islam violent, backwards, etc - but less charming than judaism? Islam has managed to entice refined and sophisticated Europeans, while only low level white weirdos convert to judaism, unless it's for money like Ivanka - I know several.

    Can't we just get our insults straight? Part of Jewish success is because they neglect all charm and beauty in order to pursue money - some people admire this, and there's a lesson to be learned.

    It's important to keep our insults straight so we can understand what's what here.
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  50. Talha says:
    @German_reader
    It wasn't exactly a serious proposal. I don't care much about Jerusalem, but at least in theory I'd be in favour of either some internationalization of the city, or East Jerusalem being part of a Palestinian state. Both are unlikely to happen though.

    I know G_R, my response was also not too serious. I’d rather not be in a situation where the Muslim world is obligated to kill a bunch of well-armed, invading Europeans again.

    The Europe that would go to arms because encroaching Seljuks were stopping their religious pilgrimages are gone – long gone. I don’t know if they’ll ever return. When one is fighting unconsciousness while bleeding out, looking at a charred stump that used to be their arm, they ponder things like; why did I come here? If they do, we can consider these possibilities in a more serious manner since the Muslims that are willing to die for the right to the city are…well, we got quite a bit (perhaps too many for comfort).

    I’m for a more equitable internationalization of the city to resolve matters without bloodshed. It is clear that the Israelis cannot make steps on their own, they need a bunch of big guys in their corner in order to counter the Muslim ‘hordes’. This is what Ms. Mercer’s article is about; it is an appeal to Zionist-minded Christians. The local Churches of the East are clear on the matter, they are either on the side of the Palestinians or neutral, but none that I can think of support Israeli annexation of Jerusalem. Neither is it supported by the UN – it will never pass.

    Let’s give it a couple more generations and see what comes out…we’re in no rush, we’re going nowhere.

    Peace.

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  51. nickels says:

    1) Jews are Turks, hence no racial connection to their desert racial Reich.

    http://jewishnews.timesofisrael.com/report-finds-ashkinazi-jews-descended-from-turks/

    2) Judaism is based on a religion that was created in Babylon centuries after Jews were booted from Aelia Capitolina. Secular Jews worship an atheistic pantheism created by Spinoza in Europe a thousand plus years later. So no connection.
    3) Zionists created modern Isreal by ethnic cleansing of 800,000 Palestinians, a war crime still to be reckoned. Further, Brits promised the region to both Arabs and Ottoman’s and Jews simultaneously during WW1, and blood was spilled by Arab and turk for this promise.
    4) Israel is the body of Christians, i.e. those who do as Christ told, not a piece of real estate. Christians are the inheritors of Abraham’s kingdom.

    Covenants are a bitsh.

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  52. jconsley says:
    @mcohen
    Well written and factual piece.donald trump kept his word regarding the embassy move,but peace should be the final goal.The huge amounts of defence spending could be otherwise used to build a just and better society for all of israels citizens.

    How about the U.S. tax dollars given to Israeli Jews be used for road, bridges, education and health care for Americans? If Israel wants peace rather than annexing Arab lands, let Israelis make the sacrifices that Americans are now making for Israel. Let Israel fight Iran — no American tax dollars to be used for war with Iran. Israel has been the aggressor and attacked many countries in the middle east: Iran has attacked none! The author’s premises are categorically propaganda. Trump has been and is a disaster for the U.S. There is nothing ethical to be found in any of his actions.

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  53. @Ace
    Israel acquired sovereignty over its territory like most every other nations on earth, namely, by military conquest and a dash of terror and one-way land purchase. Nothing over which Israelis enjoy a monopoly. They did also have some strange belief they had a right to show up in Palestine or "Palestine" in the thousands. Local Arabs not unreasonably wondered why that was exactly.

    Historical or biblical claims are meaningless. Jews got kicked out of that neck of the woods a long time ago and that was it as regards any of such claims. People who nurse dreams of recovering lands they or their very distant ancestors lost are a dime a dozen. If you want land "back" you take it in the time-honored human way.

    I'm not up on genetics but I get the impression that Khazarian Jews have no historical connection to Israel at all, so it definitely is just sovereignty based on military force in the main with credible allegations of harsh Jewish methods at the outset to encourage Arabs to flee. At this point, what difference does it make? Mazeltov to the conquerors, with or without a connection, and if the Muslims are torqued it's of little concern to any kuffar as dhimmi status (or worse) would be the rule if Arabs were top dog.

    If Israel wants to call Jerusalem its capital for any reason that's a power that goes with sovereignty. If the S. African government says Pretoria is the capital of S.A. then it makes no sense for Trump to order the U.S. embassy to be in Durban. Ditto re Jerusalem and Tell Aviv. Don't read anything else into it.

    And Benedict is a vicious dissembler.

    I agree everyone should live in peace. However, I don't think Israel's bombing Syria ad libidum, supporting terrorists in Syria, and working toward a balkanized Syria with a powerful ISIS component can be seen as wanting to "live in peace" with anyone. Clearly Israel also wants to pick a fight with Iran and, of course, hold our coat while we do the fighting for you.

    Land purchase by zionists ?
    Officiallly just seven percent of the land called Israel inside the 1967 cease fire lines is jewish property.
    And even this is very questionable.
    Around 1860 the Ottomans wanted land registered, for taxes, and military service.
    The Palestinians boycotted.
    The Ottoman tax farmers in Beirut then registered the land in their own names, and ‘sold’ to zionist settlers.
    The Palestinian owners were driven out by Ottoman gendarmes and soldiers.
    The Palestinians resisted, and so the first armed conflict between Palestinians and zionists was already in 1880, Petah Tikvah.

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    • Replies: @Old Jew
    Correct!

    I have not read Thomas Thompson, but whatever history I read, provide the same timeline.

    Nevertheless I love my Bible.
    , @Old Jew
    Dear Mr. Jilles Dykstra,

    I read your post above, and decided to confirm with Wikipedia:

    It said: "... Another incident happened in Petah Tikva, where in early 1886 the Jewish settlers demanded that their tenants vacate the disputed land and started encroaching on it. On March 28, a Jewish settler crossing this land was attacked and robbed of his horse by Yahudiya Arabs, while the settlers confiscated nine mules found grazing in their fields, though it is not clear which incident came first and which was the retaliation. The Jewish settlers refused to return the mules, a decision viewed as a provocation. The following day, when most of the settlement's men folk were away, fifty or sixty Arab villagers attacked Petach Tikva, vandalizing houses and fields and carrying off much of the livestock. Four Jews were injured and a fifth, an elderly woman with a heart condition, died four days later.[9] ..."

    Thus what you call Palestinian Landowners were Arab Tenant Farmers, on land owned legally (bought from the Ottomans) by the Jews. [No Palestinians before 1964 Arafat, and no Zionists before 1897 Basel].

    I grew up with the communist slogan:

    "The land belongs to those who work it with their hands."

    Thus I can understand your noble impulse to rename Arab Tenant Farmers to Palestinian Landowners.

    Cheers,
    sf
    , @Ace
    Thanks. Something to keep in mind. Arab Muslims took Christian/pagan lands in the M.E. and N. Africa. Turkish Muslims took it from them and a subset of them cheated resident Arab Muslims in "Palestine" or Palestine. They then sold some of this land to Zionists. I'm not trying to be facile but it does seem that the idea of "claim of right" to land in that area is pretty weak.

    I was referring to later purchases by Jews from individual Arabs. Maybe the latter really were Turks and known to be so by the Zionists but the casual reading I was doing on this issue back when left me with my present belief that it was local Arabs who purported to be owners who sold the land. Jews then made a point never selling any land purchased back to any Arabs, thereby gradually adding to the total of Jewish-owned land.

    Be that as it may, the military and terrorist efforts in 1948 created Israel and the strategy of purchase became moot.
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  54. Thank you for this, Ilana. You knew the backlash this piece would get you and you published it nonetheless which is highly admirable. Jerusalem is the eternal capital of the Jewish people, and it would have no historical relevance if not for Jews. The rabid idiots in this comment section think saying anything remotely favorable towards Israel is “Zionist propaganda”, yet this site regularly publishes anti-Israel articles. It’s refreshing every so often to hear from someone who doesn’t have utter contempt for the state of Israel. To the fanatics in the comments, go read Israel Shamir if you’re so hungry for an anti-Israel messages. After all, it’s what he’s devoted his life to.

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    • Troll: Twodees Partain
    • Replies: @ILANA MERCER
    Thanks! Btw, there is someone on the thread who thinks all Mercers are related. Sadly, I am unrelated (through marriage) to the Trump-backing, American, Mercer billionaires. My Mercers are poor, working people from the UK.
    , @jilles dykstra
    For nearly 1800 years, from the first century CE, to 1850, hardly a jew lived in Palestine.

    Thomas L Thompson, ‘The mythic past, Biblical archaeology and the myth of Israel’, London 1999
    , @Ace
    When people start talking about "eternal" this or "sacred" that I immediately make sure I have my wallet in an inside pocket.
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  55. Talha says:
    @Tyrion 2

    The argument is not very convincing from our perspective since we believe those were our prophets and the city is sacred to us as well.
     
    Islam is to Judaism what the Jason Momoa 'Conan' is to the Schwarzenegger original. Overwrought, pointlessly violent, devoid of all wit, charm and an obvious exercise in a group of very dull people missing the point.

    That Muslims think their cheap knock-off means that they have some sort of spiritual connection to Jerusalem makes as much sense as me having the right to the Great Wall of China because I can, like an idiot, paint myself yellow and squint my eyes.

    Hey Tyrion2,

    You consider us a knock-off, that idea was never entertained by us – we are far, far bigger than a Semitic narrative. Judaism is a (prominent) branch of Islam. Islam is the original package, it has come full circle, we are as old as mankind itself. We claim a spiritual connection and right to all of God’s emissaries – all of them.

    You have opinions, we have them too.

    Like I mentioned before, we are under sacred obligation to recognize the rights of Christians and Jews to the city – they are under no similar obligation from their side. If you want to fight for it – don’t waste our time trying to dissect our tradition through your own lens – just man up and say so…if you’ve been paying attention, there hasn’t been a dance in that area that we’ve sat out; Byzantines, Latins, Mongols, etc. What’s it worth to you? I mean in your own lives, not in the lives of Christians that you use as proxies…

    “O people, do not desire to meet the enemy, but rather ask Allah for security. If you meet your enemy in battle, then be patient and know that Paradise is under the shade of swords.” – reported in Bukhari & Muslim

    Peace.

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    • Replies: @Tyrion 2

    Like I mentioned before, we are under sacred obligation to recognize the rights of Christians and Jews to the city – they are under no similar obligation from their side. If you want to fight for it – don’t waste our time trying to dissect our tradition through your own lens
     
    I just want to live to see the '1.6 billion' Muslims contribute even a tenth as much to the sum of human achievement as a few millions Jews have.

    Islam is the original package, it has come full circle, we are as old as mankind itself.
     
    Yes, back when your ancestors were flying around in pyramids and other amazing inventions. I've heard this type of story before. Since Islam is defined by Mohammed being 'the messenger' and Mohammed clearly lived well after the start of History, it is straightforward that Islam is not so old. Otherwise it is just Judaism with a few more exhortations to kill the unbelievers and many fewer instructions to think rationally and get educated.
    , @Tyrion 2
    And Talha, before I regret coming off as harsh. Were belief in Islam among the populace not such a great predictor of how dysfunctional a place is, I would be the first to celebrate.

    That is, I want Muslims to pull themselves together. The planet isn't very big and you guys were having a lot of kids during the 20th Century.

    The issue is that objectively Islam is a curse on every country that has it, contemporaneously. Tragically, those it hurts the most are its adherents. When will this be fixed? How will this be fixed? It is important! Need we really accept that Muslims remain in constant conflict with their neighbours and contribute nothing to global wellbeing? When will you guys make your many countries great again?

    These are some hard facts. They are not personal. They are heartfelt however. Islam is currently making the world a far poorer place and it is in everyone's interest to change that fact, most of all Muslims!

    So what's the plan?
    , @Bliss

    Judaism is a (prominent) branch of Islam. Islam is the original package, it has come full circle, we are as old as mankind itself.
     
    What a load of laughable ass-backwards bullcrap. Who came first, Moses or Mohammad? How the hell can the imitation claim to be the original, you twisted brainwashed fool?

    “Old as mankind”? The pyramids of Egypt aren’t even as old as mankind and they precede Moses by around 1200 years and Mohammad by 3200 years.

    By the way, it makes more sense to see Judaism as an offshoot of the monotheistic Egyptian cult of the Pharaoh Akhenaten. Sigmund Freud, a Jew, wrote about in his book “Moses and Monotheism”.

    Note that the Torah/Old Testament and the Koran are written in Hebrew and Arabic respectively which are branches of the Afro-Asiatic family of languages of which the first written record is in ancient Egyptian. The practice of circumcision, an indispensable ritual in both Judaism and Islam, can also be traced back to Egypt. Ditto for the belief in bodily resurrection after death, in heaven or hell. Etc, etc
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  56. RudyM says:

    It’s not yours, creep.

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  57. annamaria says:

    Oded Yinon plan for Eretz Israel in action: http://www.moonofalabama.org/2018/02/syria-the-two-east-ghouta-campaigns-one-is-for-liberation-the-other-to-save-terrorists.html#more
    “Syria – The Two East-Ghouta Campaigns – One Is For Liberation [by Syrian government and the legally-present Russians], The Other To Save Terrorists [by the US/NATO/Israel].
    Israel wants the Golan Heights, by any means. The dead-soul Cheney wants to profit on the Golan Heights mineral deposits; all his immediate family deserves to be ostracized. The very name “Cheney” should be a moniker for “American traitor.”
    Israel-firsters in the US and UK have been the driving force for the ongoing wars in the Middle East. Four million humans beings died since 1999 because of the ziocon/neocon design for the Middle East (see also PNAC). Jewish tribe at large is responsible for the slaughter — time for the supremacists to taste their medicine that they have been force-feeding Germans since WWII.

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  58. jconsley says:

    If anyone comments on U.S. tax dollars to Israel, it is never published. What is controversial about reminding tax payers of where their money is given? Why is the U.S. fighting wars in the Middle East? Israel has already proclaimed it will take miles of Syrian land to expand its non-designated borders!

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    • Replies: @Ace
    Israel needs a buffer zone for its buffer zone.
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  59. @Monty Ahwazi
    So here’s the reason for the Mercer’s family contributing $millions to the Trump’s campaign!!

    Ilana Mercer is an radical Zionist Jew from South Africa, not related to the billionaire Mercers that supported Bannon and donated to Trump. Robert Mercer, the billionaire, mainly supported Trump hoping to get the IRS to cancel their attempt to fine him $6.8 billion, which is still pending.

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    • Replies: @Monty Ahwazi
    Thanks!
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  60. Two fifth-generation Sukhoi-57 stealth fighters landed Monday, Feb. 19 at Russia’s Syrian air base, along with 4 Su-35 fighters, 4 Su-25 strike aircraft and an A-50U radar command-and-control platform.

    This top-performance fleet raises Russia’s air strike and defense capabilities in Syria to the highest standards of any air force in the world, with enough power to take on superior US and Israeli air might in the Syrian arena. The Su-57’s weapon bays are designed to carry Russia’s new nuclear tactical X-50 air-launched cruise missile, although it is not known whether the aircraft in Syria are carrying them.

    https://www.debka.com/russias-topline-su-57-deployed-syria-challenge-us-israeli-air-might/

    Plot thickens. While shortly Netanyahu to be sent to prison. What will he do?

    Start a new war….

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    • Replies: @annamaria
    If not the Sarah-pecked Bibi then the former Moldovan citizen Lieberman, a vicious supremacist that looks like a dweller of Bukhara and talks like a neo-Nazi.
    Currently, the Israeli government stands naked – its magic clothes of supreme morality and eternal victimhood are no more. The availability of information on the Internet was a disaster for Jewish "mythologists." The majority of Jews want to live in countries of western civilization, but their self-gratifying and amoral playing with the toy of Eretz Israel has endangered western civilization and put the bloody Jewish supremacists under a spotlight. Their successful attacks on free speech (see punishments for BDS and for Qs re Holocaust in Europe and the US), and their obnoxious disregard for international law (in the context of a non-stop squealing about special Jewish rights), have created a fertile ground for dislike of the Jewish tribe in general. Nice job. Instead of supporting those countries that gave Jews the real security, the Zionists/ziocons have insulted and irritated these countries’ citizenry with grandiose criminal projects that always feature the victorious Eretz Israel, while bribing and buying politicians in the US Congress and UK Parliament and destroying the honest and principled politicians that do not dance to the Lobby’ tune.

    https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/sara-netanyahu-recorded-losing-temper-i-am-psy-cho-lo-gist-1.5768701
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2018/01/09/netanyahus-son-brags-about-prostitutes-20-billion-deal-for-friends-dad-in-strip-club-rant/?utm_term=.16bd0b26059e

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  61. David says:
    @AnalogMan
    To hell with them all. I, for one, will never forget the part played by the Jews, including Ilana's father, the Rabbi, in destroying my homeland, South Africa. There is a reckoning coming, and I hope I live to see it. You people always push, push, push, until it blows up in your faces.

    I know you won't publish this, and that's OK. The message is for you.

    This is a great comment.

    I find the consensus among the commenters in this thread somewhat inspirational, like a community of reasonable, like-minded people is being formed.

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  62. @Tim Timson
    Thank you for this, Ilana. You knew the backlash this piece would get you and you published it nonetheless which is highly admirable. Jerusalem is the eternal capital of the Jewish people, and it would have no historical relevance if not for Jews. The rabid idiots in this comment section think saying anything remotely favorable towards Israel is "Zionist propaganda", yet this site regularly publishes anti-Israel articles. It's refreshing every so often to hear from someone who doesn't have utter contempt for the state of Israel. To the fanatics in the comments, go read Israel Shamir if you're so hungry for an anti-Israel messages. After all, it's what he's devoted his life to.

    Thanks! Btw, there is someone on the thread who thinks all Mercers are related. Sadly, I am unrelated (through marriage) to the Trump-backing, American, Mercer billionaires. My Mercers are poor, working people from the UK.

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    • Replies: @bjondo
    Poor only in pounds not delusions.

    Jew has best memory - remember events which never occurred.
    , @Tim Timson
    Don't be fooled by indignation of the commenters. It is unlikely these morons have devoted similar amounts of energy seeking justice for the "displaced natives"of the American continent, or other European colonies for that matter. Rather, they need some justification to frame Jews as villains and Israel gives them infinite fodder for that purpose. Their "sympathy" for the Palestinians is entirely opportunistic in nature.
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  63. There’s a reason Muslims living in Israel proper—1.5 million of them—don’t migrate to the adjacent Palestinian Authority. They’re better off in Israel.

    I suspect that’s another lie.

    The bigger reason is likely that they aren’t allowed to. They aren’t allowed to because the gangster state needs de facto slaves, it needs a population on which to test all sorts of abominable behavior, and it needs them as a “constant threat.”

    There are likely other and even more cynical reasons that only a Talmudist could dream up.

    It’s easy enough to “google,” “Palestinians not allowed to leave Israel.”

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    • Agree: Rurik, Alden
    • Replies: @AaronB
    It's not just that.

    These Arabs live in ancestral villages they have occupied for centuries, why should they leave? The idea that Israeli Arabs should abandon their ancestral home to live under Ppalestinians, and the only thing preventing them is better material conditions - weird, and materialistic. Really, just propaganda.

    As Shamir has shown, and I have seen, life in the West Bank isn't much worse. Believe it or not, Israel doesn't look first world at all, however rich it may be on paper. Aside from squeaky new developements, Israel isn't really better materially than the West Bank.

    It's just propaganda. Don't blame Ilana she's just human, and this is what humans do. No point whining about Jews - become a little more evil yourself, like your white ancestors were, or flee the human scene or live on its margins.

    But no point complaining that to prosper among humans you can't be too moral. When whites were great, they were evil. Now Jews are evil, and are on top. To beat them, go back to being evil.

    Or, if you prefer.....
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  64. @Kingfelix
    "A quick quiz: What does “unoccupied” or “liberated” Palestinian land look like? Answer: Like Gaza."

    An astonishing assertion, in an article that contains plenty of outrageous statements.

    … in an article that contains plenty of outrageous statements.

    Hey, it’s one way to get read. It’s pathetic, but some will do anything to get a few seconds worth of attention. It’s on the level of an infant throwing a temper tantrum, but it must work well enough.

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  65. @Ilyana_Rozumova
    Well?
    I would put it this way.
    All ruins in Jerusalem are from buildings what Jews did built.
    So Jerusalem must be Jewish.
    Jaaaaaaaaaaa!
    There were all kinds of kingdoms that did rule that area but they were not building too much there.
    They were only steeling goats from Jews.
    Eventually Muslims did built some mosque there and Christians built some churches but that is all right. Jews did not demolish them.

    I hate when they steel my goats. They’d better not try to brass them, either.

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    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
    Thank you. I do hope that you do not underestimated me, because you are one of the smartest on this site.

    So this is not really address to you but to some readers on this site.
    I do love to write short funny comments
    But there is always something hidden behind the funny part.

    Napoleon said: army marches on its stomach. And protein is important part of the diet.
    Once the army conquers a certain people they rob the richer people of their gold and money.
    But what they can get from poor plebs? They impose on them payment of tribute on them.
    How can poor people to pay tribute? Only by what they have got. Some domestic animals, nothing else!
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  66. @Tyrion 2

    The argument is not very convincing from our perspective since we believe those were our prophets and the city is sacred to us as well.
     
    Islam is to Judaism what the Jason Momoa 'Conan' is to the Schwarzenegger original. Overwrought, pointlessly violent, devoid of all wit, charm and an obvious exercise in a group of very dull people missing the point.

    That Muslims think their cheap knock-off means that they have some sort of spiritual connection to Jerusalem makes as much sense as me having the right to the Great Wall of China because I can, like an idiot, paint myself yellow and squint my eyes.

    …because I can, like an idiot, paint myself yellow and squint my eyes.

    Sounds like the voice of experience. you probably do most things as an idiot would do them.

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  67. Tyrion 2 says:
    @Talha
    Hey Tyrion2,

    You consider us a knock-off, that idea was never entertained by us - we are far, far bigger than a Semitic narrative. Judaism is a (prominent) branch of Islam. Islam is the original package, it has come full circle, we are as old as mankind itself. We claim a spiritual connection and right to all of God's emissaries - all of them.

    You have opinions, we have them too.

    Like I mentioned before, we are under sacred obligation to recognize the rights of Christians and Jews to the city - they are under no similar obligation from their side. If you want to fight for it - don't waste our time trying to dissect our tradition through your own lens - just man up and say so...if you've been paying attention, there hasn't been a dance in that area that we've sat out; Byzantines, Latins, Mongols, etc. What's it worth to you? I mean in your own lives, not in the lives of Christians that you use as proxies...

    "O people, do not desire to meet the enemy, but rather ask Allah for security. If you meet your enemy in battle, then be patient and know that Paradise is under the shade of swords." - reported in Bukhari & Muslim

    Peace.

    Like I mentioned before, we are under sacred obligation to recognize the rights of Christians and Jews to the city – they are under no similar obligation from their side. If you want to fight for it – don’t waste our time trying to dissect our tradition through your own lens

    I just want to live to see the ’1.6 billion’ Muslims contribute even a tenth as much to the sum of human achievement as a few millions Jews have.

    Islam is the original package, it has come full circle, we are as old as mankind itself.

    Yes, back when your ancestors were flying around in pyramids and other amazing inventions. I’ve heard this type of story before. Since Islam is defined by Mohammed being ‘the messenger’ and Mohammed clearly lived well after the start of History, it is straightforward that Islam is not so old. Otherwise it is just Judaism with a few more exhortations to kill the unbelievers and many fewer instructions to think rationally and get educated.

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    • Replies: @Talha

    contribute even a tenth as much to the sum of human achievement as a few millions Jews have
     
    What is it with you Zionists that you can't keep on track with the topic? I don't care if you say we eat poop for breakfast, the issue is about claims to the Holy City of Jerusalem. A city that, within just a few decades of you having partial sovereignty over now has nonsense like this publicly flaunted through its streets:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHTfC3Em5BA

    Plus, your homeboys thought we was the stuff!!!
    “..but despite the inauspicious beginning, the conquest of Jerusalem by Caliph Omar in 637 was welcomed by some Jews as a release from Christian oppression. In the following Jewish apocalyptic tract composed soon afterward, Esau stands for Rome/Byzantium.Christendom and Ishmael for the Muslims:
    …The angel Metatron at once answered him. ‘Fear not, O son of man! The Holy One, blessed be He, brings the kingdom of Ishmael only to save you from this wicked one (Rome) He will send a prophet to them and conquer the Land [of Israel]…And the second king who arises from Ishmael will love [the people of] Israel and conquer all the kingdoms.’”
    Historical Dictionary of Judaism

    it is straightforward that Islam is not so old.
     
    No - it's as old as the first man. Ours is simply religion primordial (unadulterated transcendental monotheism - sans tribal affiliation) revived.

    Since Islam is defined by Mohammed being ‘the messenger’
     
    Correction, he is the Last Messenger and the Seal of the institution of Prophethood.
    "The Messenger has believed in what was revealed to him from his Lord, and [so have] the believers. All of them have believed in Allah and His angels and His books and His messengers, [saying]; 'We make no distinction between any of His messengers.' And they say, 'We hear and we obey. [We seek] Your forgiveness, our Lord, and to You is the [final] destination.'" (2:285)

    "Muhammad is not the father of any man among you, but he is the Messenger of Allah and the Seal of the Prophets; and Allah is ever Aware of all things." (33:40)

    Stop trying to tell us what our religion says, you're really bad at it.

    So again, answer the question (since you obviously don't care to take our claims seriously); how many people are you willing to lose to have sole control over the city? Of your own people, not Christians that you dupe into fighting for you?

    Or we can be mature, despite theological differences, and see about sharing the space in an equitable manner...your move.
    , @neutral

    I just want to live to see the ’1.6 billion’ Muslims contribute even a tenth as much to the sum of human achievement as a few millions Jews have.
     
    It's not achievements, it's the endless misery that jews have blighted this with world that jews win the top spot for, nobody gets close to the jews when it comes to amount of death, suffering and despair they have inflicted, and this is with their much smaller numbers compared to Muslims.
    , @jacques sheete

    I just want to live to see the ’1.6 billion’ Muslims contribute even a tenth as much to the sum of human achievement as a few millions Jews have.
     
    That old canard again?

    Get over it already. Most of us goyim would be a helluva lot better off without your stinking "achievements." Only a total knucklehead could believe any so called benefits have come without a heavy price.
    , @Twodees Partain
    Yeah, well... muslims are trying to equal jews, but they will have to kill an awful lot more people to even be in the same league.
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  68. If not for the influence of Israeli money in US electoral politics, there would be no reason to have a single American soldier or even one US made weapon anywhere in the Middle East. Russian oil is available if the governments of muslim countries decided to cut off oil to US companies.

    For the sake of the well being of US citizens, the Middle East should be left to stew in its own juices by withdrawing all US military from any deployment in the eastern hemisphere. War isn’t necessary to guarantee that oil is sold everywhere it is needed.

    The well being of one shitty little country in the ME should be beneath the notice of the US government.

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  69. AaronB says:
    @Tyrion 2

    The argument is not very convincing from our perspective since we believe those were our prophets and the city is sacred to us as well.
     
    Islam is to Judaism what the Jason Momoa 'Conan' is to the Schwarzenegger original. Overwrought, pointlessly violent, devoid of all wit, charm and an obvious exercise in a group of very dull people missing the point.

    That Muslims think their cheap knock-off means that they have some sort of spiritual connection to Jerusalem makes as much sense as me having the right to the Great Wall of China because I can, like an idiot, paint myself yellow and squint my eyes.

    devoid of all wit, charm

    Compared to judaism??? Lol.

    Judaism has no art or poetry or architecture – Islam excels in all three. Jews are slovenly and rude and unaestnetic. Charm – lol.

    Call Islam violent, backwards, etc – but less charming than judaism? Islam has managed to entice refined and sophisticated Europeans, while only low level white weirdos convert to judaism, unless it’s for money like Ivanka – I know several.

    Can’t we just get our insults straight? Part of Jewish success is because they neglect all charm and beauty in order to pursue money – some people admire this, and there’s a lesson to be learned.

    It’s important to keep our insults straight so we can understand what’s what here.

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    • Replies: @Tyrion 2

    Call Islam violent, backwards, etc – but less charming than judaism
     
    Islam has simplicity. I guess you might confuse it for charm, but it is a violent simplicity and therefore quite different.

    Islam has managed to entice refined and sophisticated Europeans, while only low level white weirdos convert to judaism, unless it’s for money like Ivanka – I know several.
     
    Is it that the prisons are full of converts to Judaism or is it that the prisons are full of refined and sophisticated Europeans?
    , @jacques sheete
    All well said.
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  70. druid says:
    @Just me
    Wtf is this

    I usually don’t read anything but this Islam may not have been there until 1400 years ago but the Palestinians were there in the form of Canaanites and others when murdering Moses and his son came to destroy!

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  71. druid says:
    @joe webb
    funny: " In other words, allow Jews to live in peace. Or, just live". Author is a liberal jew? Jeeze!
    on land stolen from somebody else, any goy will do.

    When Israel allowe Arabs to live in peace....any pay for what you stole. That might be a peace plan.
    Return stolen property and make restitution. Try starting in Syria right now.

    All Jews Out of Arab land. Or, if Palestinians agree to some kind of purchase AND a Palestinian state. Fine, up to them. "And Everubody hates the jews"... punch line in an old Tom Lehrer song

    The arrogance off the Jews is boundless. War will always be with them. That seems to be what they want.

    The only reason Israel exists is Protestants and Catholic nutcases. It is all just a crusade. And the rest of us pay for it.

    Another solution is to bulldoze Jerusalem and dump the rubble in the sea. Allow pilgrimages to the New Holy Site from anybody on the bases of idiots first. There could be scuba diving and jews could leave messages in the rocks. Muslims could do whatever they do with their butts up in the air/water. Take me Allah.

    If your respective gods had a sense of humor, he would wipe you all out and start over.

    How about Jews letting White folks live in peace too instead of jewish subversion , war for Israel, and WWThree, compliments of the Jews.

    "PS all the yak about 2000 years ago is pure war talk. Get over it. What's the word? Revanchist is one of them. Old borders from millennia ago...keep it up jewgirl and into the killing fields you lead your fanatics..... yet again.
    Libertarians are nuts, like old-line liberals...repeat after me...All men are whatever...congrats, you now be a citizen.

    oe Webb

    She is no liberal Jew. She is ex-South African racist Zio. I knew them there – they were all ardent Zionists. For American consumption they call themselves liberal

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    • Replies: @joe webb
    a week or two ago the jewyorktimes ran a piece by a S. African jew on S. Africa. He accounted for the failures and corruption of Zuma... because of "the gaze of the White man."

    Black Magic in Africa is ju-ju. White magic, like the 'gaze of the white man' corrupts the Negro.

    That is a good argument for re-segregatiang the schools. Get the White Gaze out of the schools, etc.

    As for zionists ...being liberal is still possible, isn't it?. diversity means lots of pluralism, intellectually speaking. Of course no free speech for racists. that would be carrying diversity too far.

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  72. @Tim Timson
    Thank you for this, Ilana. You knew the backlash this piece would get you and you published it nonetheless which is highly admirable. Jerusalem is the eternal capital of the Jewish people, and it would have no historical relevance if not for Jews. The rabid idiots in this comment section think saying anything remotely favorable towards Israel is "Zionist propaganda", yet this site regularly publishes anti-Israel articles. It's refreshing every so often to hear from someone who doesn't have utter contempt for the state of Israel. To the fanatics in the comments, go read Israel Shamir if you're so hungry for an anti-Israel messages. After all, it's what he's devoted his life to.

    For nearly 1800 years, from the first century CE, to 1850, hardly a jew lived in Palestine.

    Thomas L Thompson, ‘The mythic past, Biblical archaeology and the myth of Israel’, London 1999

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  73. As an Israeli citizen, Israeli lawyer and student of Jewish law, and as someone who has represented Palestinians in the law courts and exposed the lies of the Jewish establishment, I can only say that I am shocked at the publication of this utter drivel on this site. I too am from South Africa – I know about apartheid, and I am fully aware of the hideous apartheid both in Israel proper and naturally in the military occupied unfree Palestinian territories of the West Bank and Gaza.
    It might help if the author would acquaint herself with real Jewish history and the quality of the biblical narrative. She should read Israel Finkelstein et al. on the total disconnect between the bible and history in Canaan and Palestine. The Land of Israel is a literary invention – as are the Children of Israel. There is no historical record nor evidence for King David and King Solomon, and the first temple, whatever that was, cannot be verified on what is now called the Temple Mount.

    But besides all this, the real issue is whether living people, a living community of Palestinian Arabs, has the right to life over people who never existed, and if they did, they are dead more than two thousand years. Whether they have the rights of ius soli – the rights of soil – the right to self-determination where they were born and where they live, over a foreign community, the Jews.
    The entire Zionist ideology is based on an internal contradiction – the Jews who were not born in Palestine are entitled to Palestine aka as the land of their birth because of the bible!

    According to Zionism, Palestine is the birthright of those who were not born here, and whose parents and grandparents and great grandparents were also not born here, going back to an unidentifiable past, but because they call themselves “Jews” – an appellation which originally referred to the territory of Judah and those that lived in it were Judeans.

    Be that as it may, Zionism provided the framework for the physical conquest and consequent genocidal treatment of the local inhabitants of Palestine: 90% were expelled from Palestine with untold numbers killed – a figure unavailable because of Israeli control of the archives as well as the destruction of approximately 500 villages, the remains of which I see all around me.
    Furthermore that destruction and discrimination is an ongoing phenomenon to be found in the inequality and unfairness of budget allocations, town planning and the huge lack of sufficient housing and urban facilities in Arab towns and villages, the lack of educational and professional opportunities, in particular the lack of access to any position tied in with “security”. In addition Palestinian Arabs live within a police state framework government by the GSS – General Security Services or Shabak, which are in control of and are aware of absolutely everything and anything that occurs within the Israeli Palestinian community, despite their being citizens as welll as in the occupied territories of Palestine. This article too will enter their radar.

    In addition to the drivel of history in the article the author lacks a quality the absence of which allowed her to write what she wrote. This is both a commonsensical understanding of morality and an understanding of the basic distinction between good and evil, and if we refer to the bible, she has left out the pivotal commandments: thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not covet, thou shalt not take the name of thy God in vain nor shat thou blaspheme. All these commandments have been brush aside by Zionism as well as by the author!

    Come and see for yourselves!

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    • Replies: @Tyrion 2

    the lack of educational and professional opportunities, in particular the lack of access to any position tied in with “security”.
     
    American SJWs should read this Israeli SJW and weep! Not only does he match you guys with his narcisstic desire to be 'above his milleu' but he actually goes on to argue that there is disparate impact on Arab Muslims getting sensitive jobs combatting Arab terrorism.

    Americans, you can follow this guy. Simply whinge that there's not enough good jobs for Bloods and Cripps on the South Central LA anti-gang police task force. Oh, the disparate impact of it!

    Muslim Arab Israeli citizens secretly thank God each day that they're not ruled by their co-ethno-religionists. The smart ones obviously know just quite how lucky they've got.

    , @mcohen
    Well well.when i reached this part of your post i knew the hand of G-d was at work


    "thou shalt not take the name of thy God in vain nor shat thou blaspheme."

    Amen to that brother.Let the typo rule. 
    , @jacques sheete
    Your comment is a breath of fresh air, in marked contrast to the sewage spewed by the author you correctly describe a ignorant. Actually, ignorant would be a compliment.

    Here articles are uniformly ridiculous.
    , @anon
    Is "whatgarbage" a real Jewish personality type? The kind who's not satisfied with the destruction of someone else's country (White South Africa) but then insists on destroying her own?

    This person's probably just trolling. Hard to imagine you could be this insane.

    , @Ace
    I admire Israel for its commitment to a monoethnic Jewish state. A clear view of demographic realities and a determination not to commit ethnic and racial suicide is commendable.

    However, I wish that Israeli leaders would condemn their co-religionists in the West for working so hard and so long to make our countries the opposite of what the beloved Israel is doing. They don't but then demand that Western countries support them financially and whatever lunatic foreign policy initiative that strikes their fancy.

    Whatgarbage contributed a lot here in pointing out exactly how maintaining an ethnostate works on the ground. It's instructive to see what attitudes are necessary to draw the necessary lines. Of course, segregation and separation into separate communities avoids such unpleasantness, a solution that is probably in all our futures with any luck.

    Whatgarbage also provides clarity on the fundamental illogic of a claim to ownership of land by people who have no -- or a spurious-- claim to it.

    I don't see whining but clarity of thinking. Or, if whatgarbage personally wants the problems described to be solved by "fairness" and "integration" at least he or she is not shy about raising harsh realities.
    , @EliteCommInc.
    I like to avoid the rather peculiar whine about what the Jews and christians believe. The fact is they believe it. screaming to high heaven that it's a myth, false, yada yada . . . ignores the reality at what's at play. It's as fruitful as trying to explain the existence of God to people who claim no such being exists.

    Scripture, as mythical as it may be to some, states this admonition,

    "Only a fool says in his heart, there is not God."

    Believing in God is a matter of choice. The fact one doesn't isn't going to effectively address the issues of those that do, by telling them are dumb for believing. Understanding the religious issues helps understand the motivations, spending an inordinate amount of time telling people their motivations are just stupid isn't going to get one much ground. Unless you comprehend the matter well enough to use the very motivations as wedge.

    The contention about the existence of Solomon's and king David's palaces / temples is not in dispute. There is ample evidence to support that they did. The debate is about where there exist as to their exact dimensions and location in relation to the site in question.

    https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/biblical-sites-places/temple-at-jerusalem/contested-temple-mount-history/

    http://www.timesofisrael.com/archaeologists-reveal-first-solomons-temple-era-artifacts-ever-found-on-temple-mount/

    http://www.historynet.com/first-jewish-roman-war-siege-of-jerusalem.htm

    hardly indicative of a literary trope:

    https://www.bricecjones.com/blog/emperor-claudius-letter-to-the-alexandrian-embassy

    Since the even the Romans acknowledged an Israeli state, it's a strange place to argue, the matter as merely literary or mythical.


    Note: I do not contend that issues of the sacred are valid enough case to claim a state without recognition by the Us or other assembled members of the international community. And i accept that Great Britain was the duly recognized authority in Palestine and their right to had said management /authority to the UN.

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  74. Tyrion 2 says:
    @AaronB

    devoid of all wit, charm
     
    Compared to judaism??? Lol.

    Judaism has no art or poetry or architecture - Islam excels in all three. Jews are slovenly and rude and unaestnetic. Charm - lol.

    Call Islam violent, backwards, etc - but less charming than judaism? Islam has managed to entice refined and sophisticated Europeans, while only low level white weirdos convert to judaism, unless it's for money like Ivanka - I know several.

    Can't we just get our insults straight? Part of Jewish success is because they neglect all charm and beauty in order to pursue money - some people admire this, and there's a lesson to be learned.

    It's important to keep our insults straight so we can understand what's what here.

    Call Islam violent, backwards, etc – but less charming than judaism

    Islam has simplicity. I guess you might confuse it for charm, but it is a violent simplicity and therefore quite different.

    Islam has managed to entice refined and sophisticated Europeans, while only low level white weirdos convert to judaism, unless it’s for money like Ivanka – I know several.

    Is it that the prisons are full of converts to Judaism or is it that the prisons are full of refined and sophisticated Europeans?

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    • Replies: @AaronB
    The beautiful mosques, poetry, Arabic calligraphy, the romance of the desert, the Sufis, the Arabian Nights - the Islamic world was full of romance and beauty. Jews have, the ghetto? Fiddler on the roof?

    Sir Richard Burton, Rene Guenon, Rimbaud, Robert Byron, Lawrence of Arabia, Wilfred Thesiger, Freya Stark, Gertrude Bell, Paul Bowls, and countless others, were all captivated by the "charm" of the Muslim world, even if not all converted. Was just reading a biography of author Robert Irwin who converted to Sufism. The "perennial philosophers" we're fascinated by Islam but had no interest in Judaism. The 60s were fascinated by Sufism.

    The Muslim world exerted a fascination on Western intellectuals, authors, poets, explorers, and writers that has no counterpart with Judaism - only westerners interested in money convert to judaism, like our good Ivanka.

    Judaism deserves to be analyzed for its interesting features - but charm? Wit? Such nonsense only detracts from the truly fascinating aspects of Judaism - one of which, for instance, is its complete neglect of charm and imagination in order to specialize in getting money. It shows the potential strengths of specialization as well as its necessary sacrifices.

    But no need to muddy the waters here - reality is richer and more fascinating.

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  75. AaronB says:
    @jacques sheete

    There’s a reason Muslims living in Israel proper—1.5 million of them—don’t migrate to the adjacent Palestinian Authority. They’re better off in Israel.
     
    I suspect that's another lie.

    The bigger reason is likely that they aren't allowed to. They aren't allowed to because the gangster state needs de facto slaves, it needs a population on which to test all sorts of abominable behavior, and it needs them as a "constant threat."

    There are likely other and even more cynical reasons that only a Talmudist could dream up.

    It's easy enough to "google," "Palestinians not allowed to leave Israel."

    It’s not just that.

    These Arabs live in ancestral villages they have occupied for centuries, why should they leave? The idea that Israeli Arabs should abandon their ancestral home to live under Ppalestinians, and the only thing preventing them is better material conditions – weird, and materialistic. Really, just propaganda.

    As Shamir has shown, and I have seen, life in the West Bank isn’t much worse. Believe it or not, Israel doesn’t look first world at all, however rich it may be on paper. Aside from squeaky new developements, Israel isn’t really better materially than the West Bank.

    It’s just propaganda. Don’t blame Ilana she’s just human, and this is what humans do. No point whining about Jews – become a little more evil yourself, like your white ancestors were, or flee the human scene or live on its margins.

    But no point complaining that to prosper among humans you can’t be too moral. When whites were great, they were evil. Now Jews are evil, and are on top. To beat them, go back to being evil.

    Or, if you prefer…..

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    • Agree: jacques sheete
    • Replies: @jacques sheete

    But no point complaining that to prosper among humans you can’t be too moral. When whites were great, they were evil. Now Jews are evil, and are on top. To beat them, go back to being evil.
     
    I'm not complaining, I'm mostly mocking in the style of the real whiners, whom you correctly describe as currently being "on top" and therefore most evil. (Isn't it funny how the "chosen" are always whining about being the eternal victims and bawling about deserving special treatment?)

    You are so correct when you say that you must resort to evil to be on top, and it doesn't matter who's on top. Evil obviously gets them a boost, and that's why I loathe all who think they deserve to be on top or at least those who think they are entitled to rule over me.

    Goy, jew, it doesn't matter to me; all "authorities" can go suck eggs or worse. Meanwhile, the whiners like Mercer and her ignorant ilk have earned my contempt, and Like Mennipus, I'll be laughing and jeering at them and calling them out.
    , @Alden
    I know some Mizrahi Jews who left for California. They hate the European Jews. They claim the European jews treat them as badly as they treat the Palestinians. I don’t know how true that is, but that’s how some Mizrahi feel.
    , @Truth


    As Shamir has shown, and I have seen, life in the West Bank isn’t much worse. Believe it or not, Israel doesn’t look first world at all, however rich it may be on paper. Aside from squeaky new developements, Israel isn’t really better materially than the West Bank.
     
    I was in Israel two years ago. I would say that this is not true. Visually, Palestine doesn't look much different from Israel, but the livestyle of the respective peoples is much MUCH different.
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  76. Talha says:
    @Tyrion 2

    Like I mentioned before, we are under sacred obligation to recognize the rights of Christians and Jews to the city – they are under no similar obligation from their side. If you want to fight for it – don’t waste our time trying to dissect our tradition through your own lens
     
    I just want to live to see the '1.6 billion' Muslims contribute even a tenth as much to the sum of human achievement as a few millions Jews have.

    Islam is the original package, it has come full circle, we are as old as mankind itself.
     
    Yes, back when your ancestors were flying around in pyramids and other amazing inventions. I've heard this type of story before. Since Islam is defined by Mohammed being 'the messenger' and Mohammed clearly lived well after the start of History, it is straightforward that Islam is not so old. Otherwise it is just Judaism with a few more exhortations to kill the unbelievers and many fewer instructions to think rationally and get educated.

    contribute even a tenth as much to the sum of human achievement as a few millions Jews have

    What is it with you Zionists that you can’t keep on track with the topic? I don’t care if you say we eat poop for breakfast, the issue is about claims to the Holy City of Jerusalem. A city that, within just a few decades of you having partial sovereignty over now has nonsense like this publicly flaunted through its streets:

    Plus, your homeboys thought we was the stuff!!!
    “..but despite the inauspicious beginning, the conquest of Jerusalem by Caliph Omar in 637 was welcomed by some Jews as a release from Christian oppression. In the following Jewish apocalyptic tract composed soon afterward, Esau stands for Rome/Byzantium.Christendom and Ishmael for the Muslims:
    …The angel Metatron at once answered him. ‘Fear not, O son of man! The Holy One, blessed be He, brings the kingdom of Ishmael only to save you from this wicked one (Rome) He will send a prophet to them and conquer the Land [of Israel]…And the second king who arises from Ishmael will love [the people of] Israel and conquer all the kingdoms.’”
    Historical Dictionary of Judaism

    it is straightforward that Islam is not so old.

    No – it’s as old as the first man. Ours is simply religion primordial (unadulterated transcendental monotheism – sans tribal affiliation) revived.

    Since Islam is defined by Mohammed being ‘the messenger’

    Correction, he is the Last Messenger and the Seal of the institution of Prophethood.
    “The Messenger has believed in what was revealed to him from his Lord, and [so have] the believers. All of them have believed in Allah and His angels and His books and His messengers, [saying]; ‘We make no distinction between any of His messengers.’ And they say, ‘We hear and we obey. [We seek] Your forgiveness, our Lord, and to You is the [final] destination.’” (2:285)

    “Muhammad is not the father of any man among you, but he is the Messenger of Allah and the Seal of the Prophets; and Allah is ever Aware of all things.” (33:40)

    Stop trying to tell us what our religion says, you’re really bad at it.

    So again, answer the question (since you obviously don’t care to take our claims seriously); how many people are you willing to lose to have sole control over the city? Of your own people, not Christians that you dupe into fighting for you?

    Or we can be mature, despite theological differences, and see about sharing the space in an equitable manner…your move.

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    • Replies: @Tyrion 2

    Or we can be mature, despite theological differences, and see about sharing the space in an equitable manner…your move.
     
    The issue isn't theological. The issue is extreme Muslim dysfunction.

    Although to contradict myself, I can't help but assume that part of the cause of the extreme dysfunction of Muslims is indeed theological. I have no better explanation.

    A city that, within just a few decades of you having partial over now has nonsense like this publicly flaunted through its streets:
     
    Having gays parading around the streets is distasteful. Throwing them off buildings as your lot are wont to do is horrific.

    So again, answer the question
     
    How long will you guys remain satisfied as being obviously the special ed class of humanity?
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  77. anarchyst says:

    What I would do regarding the U S embassy in Jerusalem:

    Build the embassy on the “green line”. Half of the embassy (on the eastern side) will be the embassy to Palestine. Half the embassy (on the western side) will be the embassy to Israel.
    Problem solved.

    Of course the zionists will wail and gnash their teeth, but so what?

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  78. Tyrion 2 says:
    @Talha
    Hey Tyrion2,

    You consider us a knock-off, that idea was never entertained by us - we are far, far bigger than a Semitic narrative. Judaism is a (prominent) branch of Islam. Islam is the original package, it has come full circle, we are as old as mankind itself. We claim a spiritual connection and right to all of God's emissaries - all of them.

    You have opinions, we have them too.

    Like I mentioned before, we are under sacred obligation to recognize the rights of Christians and Jews to the city - they are under no similar obligation from their side. If you want to fight for it - don't waste our time trying to dissect our tradition through your own lens - just man up and say so...if you've been paying attention, there hasn't been a dance in that area that we've sat out; Byzantines, Latins, Mongols, etc. What's it worth to you? I mean in your own lives, not in the lives of Christians that you use as proxies...

    "O people, do not desire to meet the enemy, but rather ask Allah for security. If you meet your enemy in battle, then be patient and know that Paradise is under the shade of swords." - reported in Bukhari & Muslim

    Peace.

    And Talha, before I regret coming off as harsh. Were belief in Islam among the populace not such a great predictor of how dysfunctional a place is, I would be the first to celebrate.

    That is, I want Muslims to pull themselves together. The planet isn’t very big and you guys were having a lot of kids during the 20th Century.

    The issue is that objectively Islam is a curse on every country that has it, contemporaneously. Tragically, those it hurts the most are its adherents. When will this be fixed? How will this be fixed? It is important! Need we really accept that Muslims remain in constant conflict with their neighbours and contribute nothing to global wellbeing? When will you guys make your many countries great again?

    These are some hard facts. They are not personal. They are heartfelt however. Islam is currently making the world a far poorer place and it is in everyone’s interest to change that fact, most of all Muslims!

    So what’s the plan?

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    • Replies: @Talha

    Were belief in Islam among the populace not such a great predictor of how dysfunctional a place is
     
    These kinds of things don't phase us. We have our dysfunctions, other people have their own:
    "This nation pioneered modern life. Now epic numbers of Americans are killing themselves with opioids to escape it."
    http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/02/americas-opioid-epidemic.html

    You look at a tribal, rural society like Niger and compare it to France and say - it's dysfunctional. No it isn't - it is OK for a tribal, rural society - It certainly is not for a city-dwelling urban one. They are poor, dirt poor, but that does not mean they are dysfunctional.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPnL0SI8NG8

    The issue is that objectively Islam is a curse on every country that has it, contemporaneously.
     
    This is hyperbole and completely not objective. Some Muslim lands seem like hell-holes and some are very charming, if not at the material level of success as other nations. You are judging things on the material level and that's fine, that's your prerogative - but then you have to recognize that it is a subjective POV. But I've known people that have traveled through the Muslim world and have reported happy memories; my daughter's high school French teacher (a single White lady) loves going to Senegal to immerse herself in a French-speaking culture.

    Atheism and secularism seems to be a bigger curse - societies are imploding from these.

    There is no doubt that we have too many zealots running around causing trouble. We need to get that in check. That comes through education. What does not help is the destabilization of many countries in the Muslim world that were doing alright - Iraq and Libya didn't just fall apart out of the sky.

    Peace.
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  79. annamaria says:
    @Dan Herman

    Two fifth-generation Sukhoi-57 stealth fighters landed Monday, Feb. 19 at Russia’s Syrian air base, along with 4 Su-35 fighters, 4 Su-25 strike aircraft and an A-50U radar command-and-control platform.

    This top-performance fleet raises Russia’s air strike and defense capabilities in Syria to the highest standards of any air force in the world, with enough power to take on superior US and Israeli air might in the Syrian arena. The Su-57’s weapon bays are designed to carry Russia’s new nuclear tactical X-50 air-launched cruise missile, although it is not known whether the aircraft in Syria are carrying them.

    https://www.debka.com/russias-topline-su-57-deployed-syria-challenge-us-israeli-air-might/
     

    Plot thickens. While shortly Netanyahu to be sent to prison. What will he do?

    Start a new war....

    If not the Sarah-pecked Bibi then the former Moldovan citizen Lieberman, a vicious supremacist that looks like a dweller of Bukhara and talks like a neo-Nazi.
    Currently, the Israeli government stands naked – its magic clothes of supreme morality and eternal victimhood are no more. The availability of information on the Internet was a disaster for Jewish “mythologists.” The majority of Jews want to live in countries of western civilization, but their self-gratifying and amoral playing with the toy of Eretz Israel has endangered western civilization and put the bloody Jewish supremacists under a spotlight. Their successful attacks on free speech (see punishments for BDS and for Qs re Holocaust in Europe and the US), and their obnoxious disregard for international law (in the context of a non-stop squealing about special Jewish rights), have created a fertile ground for dislike of the Jewish tribe in general. Nice job. Instead of supporting those countries that gave Jews the real security, the Zionists/ziocons have insulted and irritated these countries’ citizenry with grandiose criminal projects that always feature the victorious Eretz Israel, while bribing and buying politicians in the US Congress and UK Parliament and destroying the honest and principled politicians that do not dance to the Lobby’ tune.

    https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/sara-netanyahu-recorded-losing-temper-i-am-psy-cho-lo-gist-1.5768701

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2018/01/09/netanyahus-son-brags-about-prostitutes-20-billion-deal-for-friends-dad-in-strip-club-rant/?utm_term=.16bd0b26059e

    Read More
    • Replies: @jacques sheete

    ...have created a fertile ground for dislike of the Jewish tribe in general. Nice job. Instead of supporting those countries that gave Jews the real security, the Zionists/ziocons have insulted and irritated these countries’ citizenry with grandiose criminal projects...
     
    Amen to that and all the rest.

    The simple fact is that Zionism was a reaction of jealous twerps who couldn't stand that some Jews were successful in Western societies and were assimilated just nicely, thank you.

    The Zionists were and are largely a fringe crackpot and violent group and moral Jews knew it and spoke out against it but in the end the nut jobs "won" with the results you describe.

    The former terrorist turned peace advocate, Uri Avnery, writes about that a lot.


    THE FOUNDER of political Zionism, Theodor Herzl, believed that after the creation of the "Jewish State" (not necessarily in Palestine), all the Jews in the world would go and settle there. Those who did not, would just assimilate in the countries where they lived and cease being Jews.

    This was a simple idea, because Herzl was a naïve person, who knew very little about the Jews. Because of that, he did not conceive a future difference between the Jews in the Jewish State and all the others, who would stay where they were or emigrate to other countries, like the USA.

    -Uri Avnery, Olympic Jews?

    http://zope.gush-shalom.org/home/en/channels/avnery/1471611894/

     

    There is no doubt in my mind that a similar charge could accurately be leveled at the author of the garbage article, above, except that "naive" and "ignorant" would be much too generous.
    , @Ace
    ** with grandiose criminal projects that always feature the victorious Eretz Israel **

    . . . and the destruction of all Western nations by massive Muslims and African immigration with a thick sauce of soul-sapping, nation-destroying propaganda from virtual Jewish media monopoly.
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  80. AaronB says:
    @Tyrion 2

    Call Islam violent, backwards, etc – but less charming than judaism
     
    Islam has simplicity. I guess you might confuse it for charm, but it is a violent simplicity and therefore quite different.

    Islam has managed to entice refined and sophisticated Europeans, while only low level white weirdos convert to judaism, unless it’s for money like Ivanka – I know several.
     
    Is it that the prisons are full of converts to Judaism or is it that the prisons are full of refined and sophisticated Europeans?

    The beautiful mosques, poetry, Arabic calligraphy, the romance of the desert, the Sufis, the Arabian Nights – the Islamic world was full of romance and beauty. Jews have, the ghetto? Fiddler on the roof?

    Sir Richard Burton, Rene Guenon, Rimbaud, Robert Byron, Lawrence of Arabia, Wilfred Thesiger, Freya Stark, Gertrude Bell, Paul Bowls, and countless others, were all captivated by the “charm” of the Muslim world, even if not all converted. Was just reading a biography of author Robert Irwin who converted to Sufism. The “perennial philosophers” we’re fascinated by Islam but had no interest in Judaism. The 60s were fascinated by Sufism.

    The Muslim world exerted a fascination on Western intellectuals, authors, poets, explorers, and writers that has no counterpart with Judaism – only westerners interested in money convert to judaism, like our good Ivanka.

    Judaism deserves to be analyzed for its interesting features – but charm? Wit? Such nonsense only detracts from the truly fascinating aspects of Judaism – one of which, for instance, is its complete neglect of charm and imagination in order to specialize in getting money. It shows the potential strengths of specialization as well as its necessary sacrifices.

    But no need to muddy the waters here – reality is richer and more fascinating.

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    • Agree: renfro
    • Replies: @Talha
    Let’s not forget Thoreau and Emerson (I love his poetry) who were also appreciative of the Persian mystics and their poetry.

    Also, Goethe wrote a poem in praise of the Prophet (pbuh):

    Come ye all, then!
    Now, more proudly,
    On he swells; a countless race, they
    Bear their glorious prince aloft!
    On he rolls triumphantly, 55
    Giving names to countries. Cities
    Spring to being ’neath his foot.

    Onward, with incessant roaring,
    See! he passes proudly by
    Flaming turrets, marble mansions, 60
    Creatures of his fulness all.

    Cedar houses bears this Atlas
    On his giant shoulders. Rustling,
    Flapping in the playful breezes,
    Thousand flags about his head are 65
    Telling of his majesty.

    And so bears he all his brothers,
    And his treasures, and his children,
    To their Sire, all joyous roaring,
    Pressing to his mighty heart.

    http://www.bartleby.com/270/11/203.html

    Peace.
    , @Tyrion 2
    So a fifth of the world's population has achieved only that...
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  81. Tyrion 2 says:
    @whatgarbage
    As an Israeli citizen, Israeli lawyer and student of Jewish law, and as someone who has represented Palestinians in the law courts and exposed the lies of the Jewish establishment, I can only say that I am shocked at the publication of this utter drivel on this site. I too am from South Africa - I know about apartheid, and I am fully aware of the hideous apartheid both in Israel proper and naturally in the military occupied unfree Palestinian territories of the West Bank and Gaza.
    It might help if the author would acquaint herself with real Jewish history and the quality of the biblical narrative. She should read Israel Finkelstein et al. on the total disconnect between the bible and history in Canaan and Palestine. The Land of Israel is a literary invention - as are the Children of Israel. There is no historical record nor evidence for King David and King Solomon, and the first temple, whatever that was, cannot be verified on what is now called the Temple Mount.

    But besides all this, the real issue is whether living people, a living community of Palestinian Arabs, has the right to life over people who never existed, and if they did, they are dead more than two thousand years. Whether they have the rights of ius soli - the rights of soil - the right to self-determination where they were born and where they live, over a foreign community, the Jews.
    The entire Zionist ideology is based on an internal contradiction - the Jews who were not born in Palestine are entitled to Palestine aka as the land of their birth because of the bible!

    According to Zionism, Palestine is the birthright of those who were not born here, and whose parents and grandparents and great grandparents were also not born here, going back to an unidentifiable past, but because they call themselves "Jews" - an appellation which originally referred to the territory of Judah and those that lived in it were Judeans.

    Be that as it may, Zionism provided the framework for the physical conquest and consequent genocidal treatment of the local inhabitants of Palestine: 90% were expelled from Palestine with untold numbers killed - a figure unavailable because of Israeli control of the archives as well as the destruction of approximately 500 villages, the remains of which I see all around me.
    Furthermore that destruction and discrimination is an ongoing phenomenon to be found in the inequality and unfairness of budget allocations, town planning and the huge lack of sufficient housing and urban facilities in Arab towns and villages, the lack of educational and professional opportunities, in particular the lack of access to any position tied in with "security". In addition Palestinian Arabs live within a police state framework government by the GSS - General Security Services or Shabak, which are in control of and are aware of absolutely everything and anything that occurs within the Israeli Palestinian community, despite their being citizens as welll as in the occupied territories of Palestine. This article too will enter their radar.

    In addition to the drivel of history in the article the author lacks a quality the absence of which allowed her to write what she wrote. This is both a commonsensical understanding of morality and an understanding of the basic distinction between good and evil, and if we refer to the bible, she has left out the pivotal commandments: thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not covet, thou shalt not take the name of thy God in vain nor shat thou blaspheme. All these commandments have been brush aside by Zionism as well as by the author!

    Come and see for yourselves!

    the lack of educational and professional opportunities, in particular the lack of access to any position tied in with “security”.

    American SJWs should read this Israeli SJW and weep! Not only does he match you guys with his narcisstic desire to be ‘above his milleu’ but he actually goes on to argue that there is disparate impact on Arab Muslims getting sensitive jobs combatting Arab terrorism.

    Americans, you can follow this guy. Simply whinge that there’s not enough good jobs for Bloods and Cripps on the South Central LA anti-gang police task force. Oh, the disparate impact of it!

    Muslim Arab Israeli citizens secretly thank God each day that they’re not ruled by their co-ethno-religionists. The smart ones obviously know just quite how lucky they’ve got.

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  82. Tyrion 2 says:
    @Talha

    contribute even a tenth as much to the sum of human achievement as a few millions Jews have
     
    What is it with you Zionists that you can't keep on track with the topic? I don't care if you say we eat poop for breakfast, the issue is about claims to the Holy City of Jerusalem. A city that, within just a few decades of you having partial sovereignty over now has nonsense like this publicly flaunted through its streets:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHTfC3Em5BA

    Plus, your homeboys thought we was the stuff!!!
    “..but despite the inauspicious beginning, the conquest of Jerusalem by Caliph Omar in 637 was welcomed by some Jews as a release from Christian oppression. In the following Jewish apocalyptic tract composed soon afterward, Esau stands for Rome/Byzantium.Christendom and Ishmael for the Muslims:
    …The angel Metatron at once answered him. ‘Fear not, O son of man! The Holy One, blessed be He, brings the kingdom of Ishmael only to save you from this wicked one (Rome) He will send a prophet to them and conquer the Land [of Israel]…And the second king who arises from Ishmael will love [the people of] Israel and conquer all the kingdoms.’”
    Historical Dictionary of Judaism

    it is straightforward that Islam is not so old.
     
    No - it's as old as the first man. Ours is simply religion primordial (unadulterated transcendental monotheism - sans tribal affiliation) revived.

    Since Islam is defined by Mohammed being ‘the messenger’
     
    Correction, he is the Last Messenger and the Seal of the institution of Prophethood.
    "The Messenger has believed in what was revealed to him from his Lord, and [so have] the believers. All of them have believed in Allah and His angels and His books and His messengers, [saying]; 'We make no distinction between any of His messengers.' And they say, 'We hear and we obey. [We seek] Your forgiveness, our Lord, and to You is the [final] destination.'" (2:285)

    "Muhammad is not the father of any man among you, but he is the Messenger of Allah and the Seal of the Prophets; and Allah is ever Aware of all things." (33:40)

    Stop trying to tell us what our religion says, you're really bad at it.

    So again, answer the question (since you obviously don't care to take our claims seriously); how many people are you willing to lose to have sole control over the city? Of your own people, not Christians that you dupe into fighting for you?

    Or we can be mature, despite theological differences, and see about sharing the space in an equitable manner...your move.

    Or we can be mature, despite theological differences, and see about sharing the space in an equitable manner…your move.

    The issue isn’t theological. The issue is extreme Muslim dysfunction.

    Although to contradict myself, I can’t help but assume that part of the cause of the extreme dysfunction of Muslims is indeed theological. I have no better explanation.

    A city that, within just a few decades of you having partial over now has nonsense like this publicly flaunted through its streets:

    Having gays parading around the streets is distasteful. Throwing them off buildings as your lot are wont to do is horrific.

    So again, answer the question

    How long will you guys remain satisfied as being obviously the special ed class of humanity?

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    • Replies: @Talha

    The issue is extreme Muslim dysfunction.
     
    Again, you place this term out there which is your opinion; why should I simply agree with this? Based on what - your say so?

    I mean, in the West, 90% or more people have multiple sexual partners before marriage. From our perspective, that is an extreme dysfunction. I've seen how my co-workers' kids talk to them or how they talk about their own parents to strangers - where is the respect? That is another major dysfunction. See- you don't find these to be important so you pooh pooh these things. I will guarantee you - there is no society that will last that does not honor their parents - it will be apparent in due time.

    Muslims were at the top of the world materially for a while, the Abbasid Caliphate being so advanced and rich that Europeans had nothing of value to trade except for European slaves (if you think I am joking you should read some serious history - actually you can just consult your folks since Jews were often the middlemen, so they should have the receipts). Been there, done that - now it's someone else's turn, why should we be jealous? I certainly am not.


    dysfunction of Muslims is indeed theological
     
    There are dysfunctions in Muslim societies and dysfunctions in other societies. Go to South America or parts of East Asia, plenty of dysfunction per European standards there. How is that explained theologically?

    Sure Muslims are going through some sanguinary times, but go back a few decades to 1930'/40's Europe - why was the continent so dysfunctional, to the extreme? I mean they were burning each others' kids alive without abandon on an industrial scale. Was that theological?

    Furthermore, if I recall - before your and our idiot ethno-nationalists showed up, you guys were living in the hundreds of thousands across the Muslim world in Turkey, Algeria, Morocco, Egypt, etc. If we were so dysfunctional, why weren't they in Europe...oh...wait...


    Throwing them off buildings as your lot are wont to do is horrific.
     
    Sure, but that's what extremists do - I mean, they have a rep to keep, right? They can't very well have them go through a court process with witnesses and evidence and then apply a reasonable ta'zir right? What would their friends say; ISIS, you cucks!

    How long will you guys remain satisfied as being obviously the special ed class of humanity?
     
    I don't know; how long will you remain thinking that you are the special class of humanity?

    Have you read Tortoise and the Hare? I suggest a refresher:
    http://read.gov/aesop/025.html

    , @annamaria
    "Having gays parading around the streets is distasteful. Throwing them off buildings as your lot are wont to do is horrific."
    -- Sure. Iran is very-very bad, but when Israel has been killing children in Gaza Ghetto - oh, that’s Ok because Israelis are the giants of morality from you point of view.
    Don't you like the Jewish Museum of Tolerance built, notwithstanding the vigorous protests of decent people, on the ancient Palestinian cemetery? How about the massive theft of Palestinian land? The Israel's support for Daesh/ISIS because the Golan Heights?
    Considering the Kagans' clan well-documented warmongering -- and even an active and profitable collaboration of its member with the neo-Nazi in Ukraine -- Jews should be rather more careful when judging other people.
    https://dninews.com/article/israel-notes-growth-anti-semitism-ukraine
    https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-more-anti-semitic-than-russia/25384493.html
    https://charlenecleoeiben54123.wordpress.com/2014/03/15/washington-fuels-rise-of-neo-nazism-and-anti-semitism-in-ukraine-the-role-of-john-mccain/
    Instead of hunting the senescent former Nazi guards, better take a look at the current supporters and collaborators with neo-Nazi both in Canada and the US. You cannot screech about Holocaust and, at the same time, see no evil in Nuland-Kagan’s endeavors in Kiev, as well as in Ledeen’s involvement in yellow cake forgery and Wolfowitz’, Kristol', Krauthummer’ and such fanatical support for the supreme crimes of the wars of aggression in the Middle East. And don't forget your own kapos.
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  83. Talha says:
    @Tyrion 2
    And Talha, before I regret coming off as harsh. Were belief in Islam among the populace not such a great predictor of how dysfunctional a place is, I would be the first to celebrate.

    That is, I want Muslims to pull themselves together. The planet isn't very big and you guys were having a lot of kids during the 20th Century.

    The issue is that objectively Islam is a curse on every country that has it, contemporaneously. Tragically, those it hurts the most are its adherents. When will this be fixed? How will this be fixed? It is important! Need we really accept that Muslims remain in constant conflict with their neighbours and contribute nothing to global wellbeing? When will you guys make your many countries great again?

    These are some hard facts. They are not personal. They are heartfelt however. Islam is currently making the world a far poorer place and it is in everyone's interest to change that fact, most of all Muslims!

    So what's the plan?

    Were belief in Islam among the populace not such a great predictor of how dysfunctional a place is

    These kinds of things don’t phase us. We have our dysfunctions, other people have their own:
    “This nation pioneered modern life. Now epic numbers of Americans are killing themselves with opioids to escape it.”

    http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/02/americas-opioid-epidemic.html

    You look at a tribal, rural society like Niger and compare it to France and say – it’s dysfunctional. No it isn’t – it is OK for a tribal, rural society – It certainly is not for a city-dwelling urban one. They are poor, dirt poor, but that does not mean they are dysfunctional.

    The issue is that objectively Islam is a curse on every country that has it, contemporaneously.

    This is hyperbole and completely not objective. Some Muslim lands seem like hell-holes and some are very charming, if not at the material level of success as other nations. You are judging things on the material level and that’s fine, that’s your prerogative – but then you have to recognize that it is a subjective POV. But I’ve known people that have traveled through the Muslim world and have reported happy memories; my daughter’s high school French teacher (a single White lady) loves going to Senegal to immerse herself in a French-speaking culture.

    Atheism and secularism seems to be a bigger curse – societies are imploding from these.

    There is no doubt that we have too many zealots running around causing trouble. We need to get that in check. That comes through education. What does not help is the destabilization of many countries in the Muslim world that were doing alright – Iraq and Libya didn’t just fall apart out of the sky.

    Peace.

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    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
    As a normative kind of person I am sympathetic to your viewpoint. There's still a stark lack of achievement though. I wish it were not so but I'd love to see Muslims address it, and rectify it, because it is extreme.
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  84. Rurik says:

    Gaza was “returned” to the Palestinians, who promptly destroyed the hothouses Israelis had built there, and planted in the ground Qassam rocket launchers, instead.

    what a vile, lying, duplicitous bitch you are Ilana

    http://mondoweiss.net/2014/08/propaganda-dehumanize-palestinians/

    (used to be) pretty on the outside, ugly as the Bitch of Buchenwald on the inside

    and note, I believe in the self-determination of all people, and that means the Jews too of course.

    But what I can’t abide is the treachery of the Zionists, as they blame the Palestinians for the conditions in Gaza. What kind of low-life scum lies like that?!

    What kind of sick, twisted, perverted slimebag steals people’s land, murders their loved ones, and then blames the victim for it all?

    If the Zionists had spent a fraction of the money they use slaughtering and menacing and stealing and corrupting and bombing and murdering….

    and used those funds to purchase the land and homes in voluntary transactions, I wonder if they wouldn’t own Jerusalem fee simple by now.

    But that’s not their way, is it? When you can assassinate and then lie about it.

    And most importantly, have people to torment, and humiliate, and torture and imprison and shoot at and generally try to strip away their dignity, because that is what you OT Jewish supremacists are all about, isn’t it?

    living out your psychotic delusions of megalomaniacal awesomeness!

    your masturbatory narrative of your tribe as ‘chosen’, and the only people who actually matter! And soooo, so much better than all the rest!!!

    From the Bitch of Buchenwald to the Bitch of Jerusalem (too bad it doesn’t have the catchy literation ; )

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    • Replies: @mcohen
    "What kind of sick, twisted, perverted slimebag steals people’s land, murders their loved ones, and then blames the victim for it all?"

    Whats this......custers last stand.or sitting bulls turd
    , @snag
    Those hasbara crap peddlers are everywhere 24/7 /365 .
    , @jacques sheete

    If the Zionists had spent a fraction of the money they use slaughtering and menacing and stealing and corrupting and bombing and murdering….
     
    Bbbbb...but dem Muslimz ain't "accomplished"!!!! And besides, we're chosen by a Gawd we don't even believe in!!!

    How kewl izzat?

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  85. moi says:

    For a moment there I thought the author of the article was Ivanka Trump.

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    • LOL: Talha
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  86. Yes, the Palestinians deserve a homeland. But they should not get half of Jerusalem until the Jews get half of Mecca.

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    • LOL: iffen
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  87. joe webb says:
    @druid
    She is no liberal Jew. She is ex-South African racist Zio. I knew them there - they were all ardent Zionists. For American consumption they call themselves liberal

    a week or two ago the jewyorktimes ran a piece by a S. African jew on S. Africa. He accounted for the failures and corruption of Zuma… because of “the gaze of the White man.”

    Black Magic in Africa is ju-ju. White magic, like the ‘gaze of the white man’ corrupts the Negro.

    That is a good argument for re-segregatiang the schools. Get the White Gaze out of the schools, etc.

    As for zionists …being liberal is still possible, isn’t it?. diversity means lots of pluralism, intellectually speaking. Of course no free speech for racists. that would be carrying diversity too far.

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  88. Old Jew says:
    @renfro
    Pardon me dear Ilana, but would you kindly blow your smoke up your own ass and not ours.

    Anyone want the real non biblical history of Jerusalem ?...the one agreed on by all creditable historians. Then follow the time line of Arabia in Thompson's book below. It is the factual historical account acknowledged by all historians world wide. None of these dates or events or groups are disputed by any serious historian.....except of course by the Jewish myth makers.

    # Jerusalem was not founded by Jews, i.e. adherents of the Jewish religion. It was founded between 3000 BCE and 2600 BCE by a West Semitic people or possibly the Canaanites, the common ancestors of Palestinians, Lebanese, many Syrians and Jordanians, and many Jews. But when it was founded Jews did not exist.

    # Jerusalem was founded in honor of the ancient god Shalem. It does not mean City of Peace but rather ‘built-up place of Shalem.”

    # The “Jewish people” were not building Jerusalem 3000 years ago, i.e. 1000 BCE. First of all, it is not clear when exactly Judaism as a religion centered on the worship of the one God took firm form. It appears to have been a late development since no evidence of worship of anything but ordinary Canaanite deities has been found in archeological sites through 1000 BCE. There was no invasion of geographical Palestine from Egypt by former slaves in the 1200s BCE. The pyramids had been built much earlier and had not used slave labor. The chronicle of the events of the reign of Ramses II on the wall in Luxor does not know about any major slave revolts or flights by same into the Sinai peninsula. Egyptian sources never heard of Moses or the 10 plagues & etc. Jews and Judaism emerged from a certain social class of Canaanites over a period of centuries inside Palestine.

    # Jerusalem not only was not being built by the likely then non-existent “Jewish people” in 1000 BCE, but Jerusalem probably was not even inhabited at that point in history. Jerusalem appears to have been abandoned between 1000 BCE and 900 BCE, the traditional dates for the united kingdom under David and Solomon. So Jerusalem was not ‘the city of David,’ since there was no city when he is said to have lived. No sign of magnificent palaces or great states has been found in the archeology of this period, and the Assyrian tablets, which recorded even minor events throughout the Middle East, such as the actions of Arab queens, don’t know about any great kingdom of David and Solomon in geographical Palestine.

    # Since archeology does not show the existence of a Jewish kingdom or kingdoms in the so-called First Temple Period, it is not clear when exactly the Jewish people would have ruled Jerusalem except for the Hasmonean Kingdom.
    The Assyrians conquered Jerusalem in 722.
    The Babylonians took it in 597 and ruled it until they were themselves conquered in 539 BCE by the Achaemenids of ancient Iran, who ruled Jerusalem until Alexander the Great took the Levant in the 330s BCE.
    Alexander’s descendants, the Ptolemies ruled Jerusalem until 198 when Alexander’s other descendants, the Seleucids, took the city.
    With the Maccabean Revolt in 168 BCE, the Jewish Hasmonean kingdom did rule Jerusalem until 37 BCE, though Antigonus II Mattathias, the last Hasmonean, only took over Jerusalem with the help of the Parthian dynasty in 40 BCE.
    Herod ruled 37 BCE until the Romans conquered what they called Palestine in 6 CE (CE= ‘Common Era’ or what Christians call AD).
    The Romans and then the Eastern Roman Empire of Byzantium ruled Jerusalem from 6 CE until 614 CE when the Iranian Sasanian Empire Conquered it, ruling until 629 CE when the Byzantines took it back.

    #The Muslims conquered Jerusalem in 638 and ruled it until 1099 when the Crusaders conquered it.
    The Crusaders killed or expelled Jews and Muslims from the city.
    The Muslims under Saladin took it back in 1187 CE and allowed Jews to return, and Muslims ruled it until the end of World War I, or altogether for about 1192 years.

    #Adherents of Judaism did not found Jerusalem. It existed for perhaps 2700 years before anything we might recognize as Judaism arose. Jewish rule may have been no longer than 170 years or so, i.e., the kingdom of the Hasmoneans.

    # Therefore if historical building of Jerusalem and historical connection with Jerusalem establishes sovereignty over it as Netanyahu claims, here are the groups that have the greatest claim to the city:

    A. The Muslims, who ruled it and built it over 1191 years.

    B. The Egyptians, who ruled it as a vassal state for several hundred years in the second millennium BCE.

    C. The Italians, who ruled it about 444 years until the fall of the Roman Empire in 450 CE.

    D. The Iranians, who ruled it for 205 years under the Achaemenids, for three years under the Parthians (insofar as the last Hasmonean was actually their vassal), and for 15 years under the Sasanids.

    E. The Greeks, who ruled it for over 160 years if we count the Ptolemys and Seleucids as Greek. If we count them as Egyptians and Syrians, that would increase the Egyptian claim and introduce a Syrian one.

    F. The successor states to the Byzantines, which could be either Greece or Turkey, who ruled it 188 years, though if we consider the heir to be Greece and add in the time the Hellenistic Greek dynasties ruled it, that would give Greece nearly 350 years as ruler of Jerusalem.

    G. There is an Iraqi claim to Jerusalem based on the Assyrian and Babylonian conquests, as well as perhaps the rule of the Ayyubids (Saladin’s dynasty), who were Kurds from Iraq.

    Source, Thomas Thompson History of Arabia
    http://www.amazon.ca/gp/search?index=books&linkCode=qs&keywords=0567083608

    Correct!

    I have not read Thomas Thompson, but whatever history I read, provides the same timeline.

    Nevertheless I love my Bible.

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  89. neutral says:
    @Tyrion 2

    Like I mentioned before, we are under sacred obligation to recognize the rights of Christians and Jews to the city – they are under no similar obligation from their side. If you want to fight for it – don’t waste our time trying to dissect our tradition through your own lens
     
    I just want to live to see the '1.6 billion' Muslims contribute even a tenth as much to the sum of human achievement as a few millions Jews have.

    Islam is the original package, it has come full circle, we are as old as mankind itself.
     
    Yes, back when your ancestors were flying around in pyramids and other amazing inventions. I've heard this type of story before. Since Islam is defined by Mohammed being 'the messenger' and Mohammed clearly lived well after the start of History, it is straightforward that Islam is not so old. Otherwise it is just Judaism with a few more exhortations to kill the unbelievers and many fewer instructions to think rationally and get educated.

    I just want to live to see the ’1.6 billion’ Muslims contribute even a tenth as much to the sum of human achievement as a few millions Jews have.

    It’s not achievements, it’s the endless misery that jews have blighted this with world that jews win the top spot for, nobody gets close to the jews when it comes to amount of death, suffering and despair they have inflicted, and this is with their much smaller numbers compared to Muslims.

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    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
    Boring! Jews ain't to blame for all your ills. Yours is a pathetic position to take.
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  90. @Chet Roman
    Ilana Mercer is an radical Zionist Jew from South Africa, not related to the billionaire Mercers that supported Bannon and donated to Trump. Robert Mercer, the billionaire, mainly supported Trump hoping to get the IRS to cancel their attempt to fine him $6.8 billion, which is still pending.

    Thanks!

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  91. dearieme says:
    @Twodees Partain
    “Yerushalaim,” and not Al Quds, is the name of the city that was sacred to Jews for nearly two thousand years before Muhammad."

    Well, OK. My cousin, rest her soul, when we were kids, pronounced it Jahroozlieham. We spoke a Piedmont Carolina dialect of English that's mostly extinct now. I kind of prefer that pronunciation, if y'all jewish folks don't mind.

    “the name of the city that was sacred to Jews for nearly two thousand years before Muhammad”: over-egging the pudding. There weren’t any Jews two thousand years before Muhammad in any recognisable sense. The Torah didn’t exist, there were no monotheists living thereabouts as far as archaeologists can tell, and Jerusalem at the time David purportedly existed was an unfortified village i.e. it wasn’t a city and it didn’t have a defensive wall.

    Were you never taught that exaggeration weakens a case?

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    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
    I was quoting the article. If you had read the article before jumping into the comments, you would know that.
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  92. @Twodees Partain
    I hate when they steel my goats. They'd better not try to brass them, either.

    Thank you. I do hope that you do not underestimated me, because you are one of the smartest on this site.

    So this is not really address to you but to some readers on this site.
    I do love to write short funny comments
    But there is always something hidden behind the funny part.

    Napoleon said: army marches on its stomach. And protein is important part of the diet.
    Once the army conquers a certain people they rob the richer people of their gold and money.
    But what they can get from poor plebs? They impose on them payment of tribute on them.
    How can poor people to pay tribute? Only by what they have got. Some domestic animals, nothing else!

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    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
    Thank you, ma'am. I like to poke fun whenever possible and I'm glad you didn't take offense.

    That's exactly right about tribute. I view paying taxes to the federal government as being forced to pay tribute, and tribute is extortion.

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  93. Truth says:

    Muslims residing in East Jerusalem must just learn to extend to their Jewish neighbors the courtesy their Muslim brethren receive from their Jewish neighbors, in Israel proper.

    Hey Ron. Keep em’ coming, your going to get me fired for laughing too hard, but I’m addicted.

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  94. Talha says:
    @AaronB
    The beautiful mosques, poetry, Arabic calligraphy, the romance of the desert, the Sufis, the Arabian Nights - the Islamic world was full of romance and beauty. Jews have, the ghetto? Fiddler on the roof?

    Sir Richard Burton, Rene Guenon, Rimbaud, Robert Byron, Lawrence of Arabia, Wilfred Thesiger, Freya Stark, Gertrude Bell, Paul Bowls, and countless others, were all captivated by the "charm" of the Muslim world, even if not all converted. Was just reading a biography of author Robert Irwin who converted to Sufism. The "perennial philosophers" we're fascinated by Islam but had no interest in Judaism. The 60s were fascinated by Sufism.

    The Muslim world exerted a fascination on Western intellectuals, authors, poets, explorers, and writers that has no counterpart with Judaism - only westerners interested in money convert to judaism, like our good Ivanka.

    Judaism deserves to be analyzed for its interesting features - but charm? Wit? Such nonsense only detracts from the truly fascinating aspects of Judaism - one of which, for instance, is its complete neglect of charm and imagination in order to specialize in getting money. It shows the potential strengths of specialization as well as its necessary sacrifices.

    But no need to muddy the waters here - reality is richer and more fascinating.

    Let’s not forget Thoreau and Emerson (I love his poetry) who were also appreciative of the Persian mystics and their poetry.

    Also, Goethe wrote a poem in praise of the Prophet (pbuh):

    Come ye all, then!
    Now, more proudly,
    On he swells; a countless race, they
    Bear their glorious prince aloft!
    On he rolls triumphantly, 55
    Giving names to countries. Cities
    Spring to being ’neath his foot.

    Onward, with incessant roaring,
    See! he passes proudly by
    Flaming turrets, marble mansions, 60
    Creatures of his fulness all.

    Cedar houses bears this Atlas
    On his giant shoulders. Rustling,
    Flapping in the playful breezes,
    Thousand flags about his head are 65
    Telling of his majesty.

    And so bears he all his brothers,
    And his treasures, and his children,
    To their Sire, all joyous roaring,
    Pressing to his mighty heart.

    http://www.bartleby.com/270/11/203.html

    Peace.

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    • Replies: @AaronB
    Excellent additions to the list talha!

    Especially Goethe was deeply attracted to Persian poetry, etc.

    Over on Anatoly Karlin's thread on Jews Bardon Karolian gives a really impressive list of cultured Europeans who despise Judaism as vulgar and crass.

    So it seems cultured European opinion really reacted to Judaism and Islam in completely opposite ways, and it was more than just a failure to find Judaism appealing.

    I feel almost bad bullying our poor Trion here - Tyrion, we don't hate Jews as people! And we hold out hope you can redeem your vulgar culture and forget about money and learn to find joy in poetry and imagination and spirituality.
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  95. @AaronB
    It's not just that.

    These Arabs live in ancestral villages they have occupied for centuries, why should they leave? The idea that Israeli Arabs should abandon their ancestral home to live under Ppalestinians, and the only thing preventing them is better material conditions - weird, and materialistic. Really, just propaganda.

    As Shamir has shown, and I have seen, life in the West Bank isn't much worse. Believe it or not, Israel doesn't look first world at all, however rich it may be on paper. Aside from squeaky new developements, Israel isn't really better materially than the West Bank.

    It's just propaganda. Don't blame Ilana she's just human, and this is what humans do. No point whining about Jews - become a little more evil yourself, like your white ancestors were, or flee the human scene or live on its margins.

    But no point complaining that to prosper among humans you can't be too moral. When whites were great, they were evil. Now Jews are evil, and are on top. To beat them, go back to being evil.

    Or, if you prefer.....

    But no point complaining that to prosper among humans you can’t be too moral. When whites were great, they were evil. Now Jews are evil, and are on top. To beat them, go back to being evil.

    I’m not complaining, I’m mostly mocking in the style of the real whiners, whom you correctly describe as currently being “on top” and therefore most evil. (Isn’t it funny how the “chosen” are always whining about being the eternal victims and bawling about deserving special treatment?)

    You are so correct when you say that you must resort to evil to be on top, and it doesn’t matter who’s on top. Evil obviously gets them a boost, and that’s why I loathe all who think they deserve to be on top or at least those who think they are entitled to rule over me.

    Goy, jew, it doesn’t matter to me; all “authorities” can go suck eggs or worse. Meanwhile, the whiners like Mercer and her ignorant ilk have earned my contempt, and Like Mennipus, I’ll be laughing and jeering at them and calling them out.

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    • Replies: @AaronB
    Sounds like you've a touch of the anarchyst in you, as do I :)

    The last great age of humanity was the egalitarian hunter-gatherer period - it's been downhill ever since.

    As for our current times, I just like to make our choices as starkly clear as possible to everyone - to contend for top dog position, whites have to become more evil. No use shirking this fact and dreaming of an "ethical" fight. That doesn't mean it wouldn't have to be presented as an ethical fight. That would be a necessary part of it.

    Being ethical means surrendering top dog position. Honesty about this is crucial.

    Once the choices are laid out, we must make our choices.

    For me, it's the merry woods and the mountain caves and the deserts, and the arts of subterfuge and evasion among men.
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  96. @Tyrion 2

    Like I mentioned before, we are under sacred obligation to recognize the rights of Christians and Jews to the city – they are under no similar obligation from their side. If you want to fight for it – don’t waste our time trying to dissect our tradition through your own lens
     
    I just want to live to see the '1.6 billion' Muslims contribute even a tenth as much to the sum of human achievement as a few millions Jews have.

    Islam is the original package, it has come full circle, we are as old as mankind itself.
     
    Yes, back when your ancestors were flying around in pyramids and other amazing inventions. I've heard this type of story before. Since Islam is defined by Mohammed being 'the messenger' and Mohammed clearly lived well after the start of History, it is straightforward that Islam is not so old. Otherwise it is just Judaism with a few more exhortations to kill the unbelievers and many fewer instructions to think rationally and get educated.

    I just want to live to see the ’1.6 billion’ Muslims contribute even a tenth as much to the sum of human achievement as a few millions Jews have.

    That old canard again?

    Get over it already. Most of us goyim would be a helluva lot better off without your stinking “achievements.” Only a total knucklehead could believe any so called benefits have come without a heavy price.

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    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
    The first step in addressing the dearth of Muslim achievement is recognising it. Were you committed more to the well-being of your culture than your two dimensional self-esteeem, you would happily recognise this.
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  97. @AaronB

    devoid of all wit, charm
     
    Compared to judaism??? Lol.

    Judaism has no art or poetry or architecture - Islam excels in all three. Jews are slovenly and rude and unaestnetic. Charm - lol.

    Call Islam violent, backwards, etc - but less charming than judaism? Islam has managed to entice refined and sophisticated Europeans, while only low level white weirdos convert to judaism, unless it's for money like Ivanka - I know several.

    Can't we just get our insults straight? Part of Jewish success is because they neglect all charm and beauty in order to pursue money - some people admire this, and there's a lesson to be learned.

    It's important to keep our insults straight so we can understand what's what here.

    All well said.

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  98. mcohen says:
    @whatgarbage
    As an Israeli citizen, Israeli lawyer and student of Jewish law, and as someone who has represented Palestinians in the law courts and exposed the lies of the Jewish establishment, I can only say that I am shocked at the publication of this utter drivel on this site. I too am from South Africa - I know about apartheid, and I am fully aware of the hideous apartheid both in Israel proper and naturally in the military occupied unfree Palestinian territories of the West Bank and Gaza.
    It might help if the author would acquaint herself with real Jewish history and the quality of the biblical narrative. She should read Israel Finkelstein et al. on the total disconnect between the bible and history in Canaan and Palestine. The Land of Israel is a literary invention - as are the Children of Israel. There is no historical record nor evidence for King David and King Solomon, and the first temple, whatever that was, cannot be verified on what is now called the Temple Mount.

    But besides all this, the real issue is whether living people, a living community of Palestinian Arabs, has the right to life over people who never existed, and if they did, they are dead more than two thousand years. Whether they have the rights of ius soli - the rights of soil - the right to self-determination where they were born and where they live, over a foreign community, the Jews.
    The entire Zionist ideology is based on an internal contradiction - the Jews who were not born in Palestine are entitled to Palestine aka as the land of their birth because of the bible!

    According to Zionism, Palestine is the birthright of those who were not born here, and whose parents and grandparents and great grandparents were also not born here, going back to an unidentifiable past, but because they call themselves "Jews" - an appellation which originally referred to the territory of Judah and those that lived in it were Judeans.

    Be that as it may, Zionism provided the framework for the physical conquest and consequent genocidal treatment of the local inhabitants of Palestine: 90% were expelled from Palestine with untold numbers killed - a figure unavailable because of Israeli control of the archives as well as the destruction of approximately 500 villages, the remains of which I see all around me.
    Furthermore that destruction and discrimination is an ongoing phenomenon to be found in the inequality and unfairness of budget allocations, town planning and the huge lack of sufficient housing and urban facilities in Arab towns and villages, the lack of educational and professional opportunities, in particular the lack of access to any position tied in with "security". In addition Palestinian Arabs live within a police state framework government by the GSS - General Security Services or Shabak, which are in control of and are aware of absolutely everything and anything that occurs within the Israeli Palestinian community, despite their being citizens as welll as in the occupied territories of Palestine. This article too will enter their radar.

    In addition to the drivel of history in the article the author lacks a quality the absence of which allowed her to write what she wrote. This is both a commonsensical understanding of morality and an understanding of the basic distinction between good and evil, and if we refer to the bible, she has left out the pivotal commandments: thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not covet, thou shalt not take the name of thy God in vain nor shat thou blaspheme. All these commandments have been brush aside by Zionism as well as by the author!

    Come and see for yourselves!

    Well well.when i reached this part of your post i knew the hand of G-d was at work

    “thou shalt not take the name of thy God in vain nor shat thou blaspheme.”

    Amen to that brother.Let the typo rule. 

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  99. Sean says:

    The status of the West Bank Arabs cannot remain as it is forever. And unless Israel withdraws from the West Bank and protecting the settlements, there is no possibility of getting a Palestinian state (in addition to the already existing one on the other bank). Someone must go, and it does not look as if it will be the settlers.

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  100. Old Jew says:
    @jilles dykstra
    Land purchase by zionists ?
    Officiallly just seven percent of the land called Israel inside the 1967 cease fire lines is jewish property.
    And even this is very questionable.
    Around 1860 the Ottomans wanted land registered, for taxes, and military service.
    The Palestinians boycotted.
    The Ottoman tax farmers in Beirut then registered the land in their own names, and 'sold' to zionist settlers.
    The Palestinian owners were driven out by Ottoman gendarmes and soldiers.
    The Palestinians resisted, and so the first armed conflict between Palestinians and zionists was already in 1880, Petah Tikvah.

    Correct!

    I have not read Thomas Thompson, but whatever history I read, provide the same timeline.

    Nevertheless I love my Bible.

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    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    My brother and I were raised without religion, it was a non issue, what had been the little village church was converted for use for sports.
    To be completely clear, we were not raised in an anti religion atmosphere.
    The few in our village who went to church in a nearby village were conspicuous, on bicycles, in Sunday clothes.
    But, my brother, why, I still do not know, later in life joined a church.
    I never asked him outright about why.
    I hardly ever dared ask religious people about their belief, very sensitive issue.
    But he did make a few statements 'I do not know what I believe', 'I feel good in church', 'it does not matter if Jesus existed or not, what matters is his ideas'.
    As long as people accept that laws are above religious rules, why should I object to beliefs ?
    The problem is that true believers believe that their beliefs, and the rules they see in their holy book, whatever it is, are above the secular law.
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  101. @whatgarbage
    As an Israeli citizen, Israeli lawyer and student of Jewish law, and as someone who has represented Palestinians in the law courts and exposed the lies of the Jewish establishment, I can only say that I am shocked at the publication of this utter drivel on this site. I too am from South Africa - I know about apartheid, and I am fully aware of the hideous apartheid both in Israel proper and naturally in the military occupied unfree Palestinian territories of the West Bank and Gaza.
    It might help if the author would acquaint herself with real Jewish history and the quality of the biblical narrative. She should read Israel Finkelstein et al. on the total disconnect between the bible and history in Canaan and Palestine. The Land of Israel is a literary invention - as are the Children of Israel. There is no historical record nor evidence for King David and King Solomon, and the first temple, whatever that was, cannot be verified on what is now called the Temple Mount.

    But besides all this, the real issue is whether living people, a living community of Palestinian Arabs, has the right to life over people who never existed, and if they did, they are dead more than two thousand years. Whether they have the rights of ius soli - the rights of soil - the right to self-determination where they were born and where they live, over a foreign community, the Jews.
    The entire Zionist ideology is based on an internal contradiction - the Jews who were not born in Palestine are entitled to Palestine aka as the land of their birth because of the bible!

    According to Zionism, Palestine is the birthright of those who were not born here, and whose parents and grandparents and great grandparents were also not born here, going back to an unidentifiable past, but because they call themselves "Jews" - an appellation which originally referred to the territory of Judah and those that lived in it were Judeans.

    Be that as it may, Zionism provided the framework for the physical conquest and consequent genocidal treatment of the local inhabitants of Palestine: 90% were expelled from Palestine with untold numbers killed - a figure unavailable because of Israeli control of the archives as well as the destruction of approximately 500 villages, the remains of which I see all around me.
    Furthermore that destruction and discrimination is an ongoing phenomenon to be found in the inequality and unfairness of budget allocations, town planning and the huge lack of sufficient housing and urban facilities in Arab towns and villages, the lack of educational and professional opportunities, in particular the lack of access to any position tied in with "security". In addition Palestinian Arabs live within a police state framework government by the GSS - General Security Services or Shabak, which are in control of and are aware of absolutely everything and anything that occurs within the Israeli Palestinian community, despite their being citizens as welll as in the occupied territories of Palestine. This article too will enter their radar.

    In addition to the drivel of history in the article the author lacks a quality the absence of which allowed her to write what she wrote. This is both a commonsensical understanding of morality and an understanding of the basic distinction between good and evil, and if we refer to the bible, she has left out the pivotal commandments: thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not covet, thou shalt not take the name of thy God in vain nor shat thou blaspheme. All these commandments have been brush aside by Zionism as well as by the author!

    Come and see for yourselves!

    Your comment is a breath of fresh air, in marked contrast to the sewage spewed by the author you correctly describe a ignorant. Actually, ignorant would be a compliment.

    Here articles are uniformly ridiculous.

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  102. nickels says:

    Shephardics are also basically just Europeans:

    https://ethnicgenome.wordpress.com/2009/03/04/the-race-of-sephardic-jews/

    So tradition and DNA of Jews have no connection to the Ancient Israel.
    (Well, maybe except in the opposite sense that the Talmud inverts the written Torah).

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  103. @annamaria
    If not the Sarah-pecked Bibi then the former Moldovan citizen Lieberman, a vicious supremacist that looks like a dweller of Bukhara and talks like a neo-Nazi.
    Currently, the Israeli government stands naked – its magic clothes of supreme morality and eternal victimhood are no more. The availability of information on the Internet was a disaster for Jewish "mythologists." The majority of Jews want to live in countries of western civilization, but their self-gratifying and amoral playing with the toy of Eretz Israel has endangered western civilization and put the bloody Jewish supremacists under a spotlight. Their successful attacks on free speech (see punishments for BDS and for Qs re Holocaust in Europe and the US), and their obnoxious disregard for international law (in the context of a non-stop squealing about special Jewish rights), have created a fertile ground for dislike of the Jewish tribe in general. Nice job. Instead of supporting those countries that gave Jews the real security, the Zionists/ziocons have insulted and irritated these countries’ citizenry with grandiose criminal projects that always feature the victorious Eretz Israel, while bribing and buying politicians in the US Congress and UK Parliament and destroying the honest and principled politicians that do not dance to the Lobby’ tune.

    https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/sara-netanyahu-recorded-losing-temper-i-am-psy-cho-lo-gist-1.5768701
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2018/01/09/netanyahus-son-brags-about-prostitutes-20-billion-deal-for-friends-dad-in-strip-club-rant/?utm_term=.16bd0b26059e

    …have created a fertile ground for dislike of the Jewish tribe in general. Nice job. Instead of supporting those countries that gave Jews the real security, the Zionists/ziocons have insulted and irritated these countries’ citizenry with grandiose criminal projects…

    Amen to that and all the rest.

    The simple fact is that Zionism was a reaction of jealous twerps who couldn’t stand that some Jews were successful in Western societies and were assimilated just nicely, thank you.

    The Zionists were and are largely a fringe crackpot and violent group and moral Jews knew it and spoke out against it but in the end the nut jobs “won” with the results you describe.

    The former terrorist turned peace advocate, Uri Avnery, writes about that a lot.

    THE FOUNDER of political Zionism, Theodor Herzl, believed that after the creation of the “Jewish State” (not necessarily in Palestine), all the Jews in the world would go and settle there. Those who did not, would just assimilate in the countries where they lived and cease being Jews.

    This was a simple idea, because Herzl was a naïve person, who knew very little about the Jews. Because of that, he did not conceive a future difference between the Jews in the Jewish State and all the others, who would stay where they were or emigrate to other countries, like the USA.

    -Uri Avnery, Olympic Jews?

    http://zope.gush-shalom.org/home/en/channels/avnery/1471611894/

    There is no doubt in my mind that a similar charge could accurately be leveled at the author of the garbage article, above, except that “naive” and “ignorant” would be much too generous.

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  104. mcohen says:
    @Rurik

    Gaza was “returned” to the Palestinians, who promptly destroyed the hothouses Israelis had built there, and planted in the ground Qassam rocket launchers, instead.
     
    what a vile, lying, duplicitous bitch you are Ilana

    http://mondoweiss.net/2014/08/propaganda-dehumanize-palestinians/

    (used to be) pretty on the outside, ugly as the Bitch of Buchenwald on the inside

    and note, I believe in the self-determination of all people, and that means the Jews too of course.

    But what I can't abide is the treachery of the Zionists, as they blame the Palestinians for the conditions in Gaza. What kind of low-life scum lies like that?!

    What kind of sick, twisted, perverted slimebag steals people's land, murders their loved ones, and then blames the victim for it all?

    If the Zionists had spent a fraction of the money they use slaughtering and menacing and stealing and corrupting and bombing and murdering....

    and used those funds to purchase the land and homes in voluntary transactions, I wonder if they wouldn't own Jerusalem fee simple by now.

    But that's not their way, is it? When you can assassinate and then lie about it.

    And most importantly, have people to torment, and humiliate, and torture and imprison and shoot at and generally try to strip away their dignity, because that is what you OT Jewish supremacists are all about, isn't it?

    living out your psychotic delusions of megalomaniacal awesomeness!

    your masturbatory narrative of your tribe as 'chosen', and the only people who actually matter! And soooo, so much better than all the rest!!!


    From the Bitch of Buchenwald to the Bitch of Jerusalem (too bad it doesn't have the catchy literation ; )

    “What kind of sick, twisted, perverted slimebag steals people’s land, murders their loved ones, and then blames the victim for it all?”

    Whats this……custers last stand.or sitting bulls turd

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    • Replies: @Rurik


    “What kind of sick, twisted, perverted slimebag steals people’s land, murders their loved ones, and then blames the victim for it all?”

     

    Whats this……custers last stand

     

    I'm glad you mentioned the Amerindians vis-a-vis the genocide going on in Palestine today

    there are a few things worthy of note by way of contrasting those two events..

    First and foremost is that in the pre-WWII world, it was for the strong to encroach on the weak.

    The 'Indians' did it to each other with gusto, and it was the unwritten law of the world, that when a people were confronted by military superiority, they succumbed.

    The Aztecs and Apaches did it to their neighbors, and had it done to them in turn.

    But then at Nuremburg, the world created a new covenant. They repudiated the metric that 'might = right', and created a new world order for us all, and we all had our young souls as children, mortified by the 'horrors of the Holocaust', as we were all carefully indoctrinated into believing that genocide and Nazis and ethnic cleansing were the worst evils that have ever besieged the planet.

    That is the first thing to keep in mind.

    The second thing is that as the Europeans were ethnically cleansing and genociding the 'Indians', there was much handwringing over their tragic fate. Many tried to educate them and make civilized men and women out of them, so that they could assimilate into the culture.

    Sometimes it worked, and often it didn't, but the point is that they were treated as victims of the white newcomers, not as evil people for having the temerity to exist.

    It would be impossible to even imagine a white statesman or philosopher to say the existence of the Indians was an affront to God's will, and blame them for living. Such arrogance would have been inconceivable. They may have invoked God's will for 'manifest destiny', and the eventual replacement of the Indians, but they would hardly blame the Indians for being here first.

    For that kind of sinister wickedness, we have to look to the Zionists, who blame the Palestinians for living on "their" land.

    So there are two very important differences. One is that the post WWII Jews demanded after the war was over, (and the Germans were the ones being systematically genocided and raped and enslaved, etc..) that the Nazis were the most evil of all evil people who had ever lived! Because they wanted to ethnically cleanse the Jews out of their lands, and often persecuted the Jews who resisted or fought against the Nazis.

    So..

    If it's wrong, wrong. wrong.. (the most evil thing that anyone can do) to ethnically cleanse others out of your lands..

    as this has been the mantra that Jews have barraged us with for generations...

    then by what fucked up right do they have to ethnically cleanse other people out of those other people's lands?!

    You see? If what the Nazis did was the ultimate evil, then how the fuck are we all supposed to sit by while the screeching Jews, howling at us all for not doing enough to protect them.. murder and steal and genocide others?

    It's like Eli Weasel scourging us all as anti-Semites for allowing the Holocaust to happen on one hand, as he's engaging in the genocidal Nakba with the other hand.

    The hypocrisy is staggering and an affront to simple human intelligence and decency.

    and then to add to that, these genocidal hypocrites actually have the pus nads to blame the victims of their genocidal hatred and wrath.

    I'm sure Gen. Custer killed a lot of Indians, (murder or genocide if that's what you want to call it) but I doubt very seriously that he brow beat them for fighting back, or that he stood on their corpses and blamed them for living on reservations and all the attendant humiliations and depravations.

    How someone could look at the Indians, having suffered so much, and languishing on the reservations, and then demand 'look at how wrenched they are! Look at what they've done to themselves!

    for that kind of sickening 'blaming of the victims', we have to look at the singularly loathsome Zionists
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  105. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Talha
    And it’s quite strange that Ms. Mercer would be trying to tell Christians what would be good for them when the heads of the Christian Churches in the area already stated clearly that Jerusalem should retain international status:
    https://www.lpj.org/heads-local-churches-send-letter-to-president-donald-trump-regarding-status-of-jerusalem/

    Or is Ms. Mercer going to also teach them about their proper theological stances?

    … heads of the Christian Churches in the area already stated clearly that Jerusalem should retain international status:

    The heads of local churches will say whatever their violent Muslim neighbors tell them to say.

    They have thoroughly absorbed the lesson that you don’t speak up against violent, supremacist Muslims.

    BTW Al-Quds is not really the “name” of Jerusalem in Arabic, but more like a moniker meaning “the Holy One.”

    Israel should encourage Arabs to use the same moniker for Mecca and Medina.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha

    The heads of local churches will say whatever their violent Muslim neighbors tell them to say.
     
    A little birdie told you this? Provide evidence. If your contention is, if it wasn't for these darned Muslims, the local Christians would love us; then this is a laughable claim. Ted Cruz was booed off stage by Arab Christians in America for his nonsense talk:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2ZVihACwQ0

    Al-Quds, Bayt al-Maqdis, Majid al-Aqsa are all terms that refer variously to the city, area or specifically the temple mount compound. We'll call it whatever we like, what does it matter to you guys? You guys can call it Jewrusalem for all we care. This is about details, this is about being able to reasonably share a space that we all find sacred and without bloodshed. The constant downplaying of the legitimacy of the Muslim claim shows us that your side is insincere and does not mean business - which is fine, we can do it the hard way if you want.

    Makkah used to be Bakkah and Madinah (which literally means "The City") used to be known as Yathrib. We arleady have honorific names for them; Makkah al-Mukarramah (Makkah the Enobled) and Madina tul-Munawwara (Madinah the Resplendent).

    , @Dan Herman

    BTW Al-Quds is not really the “name” of Jerusalem in Arabic, but more like a moniker meaning “the Holy One.”
     
    Peace in English, Sholom in Hebrew and Salem or Salam in Arabic. Jerusalem is a moniker too, which means City of Peace in Arabic, and for this reason it is spelled as Jerusalem. In Hebrew it has to be spelled as Jerusholom. Get it.

    Just like the city called, Daralsalam in Brunei which is pronounced as Darassalam. Or Daralsalaam in Tanzania which is again pronounced as Daressalaam. Why? Because, the "s" in salem (salam, salaam) is a "sun" letter and not a "moon" letter.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_and_moon_letters

    Also, Dar means "city or door". So, both cities in Brunei and Tanzania mean, "City of Peace" or "Door of Peace". Very Muslim and Arabic names.

    The full name for al-Quds is "Bait al-Quds" or "Bait al-Mukadas" meaning, The House of Holy. Both "m" and "q" are "moon" letters.

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  106. Old Jew says:
    @jilles dykstra
    Land purchase by zionists ?
    Officiallly just seven percent of the land called Israel inside the 1967 cease fire lines is jewish property.
    And even this is very questionable.
    Around 1860 the Ottomans wanted land registered, for taxes, and military service.
    The Palestinians boycotted.
    The Ottoman tax farmers in Beirut then registered the land in their own names, and 'sold' to zionist settlers.
    The Palestinian owners were driven out by Ottoman gendarmes and soldiers.
    The Palestinians resisted, and so the first armed conflict between Palestinians and zionists was already in 1880, Petah Tikvah.

    Dear Mr. Jilles Dykstra,

    I read your post above, and decided to confirm with Wikipedia:

    It said: “… Another incident happened in Petah Tikva, where in early 1886 the Jewish settlers demanded that their tenants vacate the disputed land and started encroaching on it. On March 28, a Jewish settler crossing this land was attacked and robbed of his horse by Yahudiya Arabs, while the settlers confiscated nine mules found grazing in their fields, though it is not clear which incident came first and which was the retaliation. The Jewish settlers refused to return the mules, a decision viewed as a provocation. The following day, when most of the settlement’s men folk were away, fifty or sixty Arab villagers attacked Petach Tikva, vandalizing houses and fields and carrying off much of the livestock. Four Jews were injured and a fifth, an elderly woman with a heart condition, died four days later.[9] …”

    Thus what you call Palestinian Landowners were Arab Tenant Farmers, on land owned legally (bought from the Ottomans) by the Jews. [No Palestinians before 1964 Arafat, and no Zionists before 1897 Basel].

    I grew up with the communist slogan:

    “The land belongs to those who work it with their hands.”

    Thus I can understand your noble impulse to rename Arab Tenant Farmers to Palestinian Landowners.

    Cheers,
    sf

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    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    Indeed, there still are people who trust wikipedia, not me
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  107. Art says:

    Jews Must Never Forget Trump for Remembering Our Unforgettable Jerusalem

    We Americans must never forget that Adelson’s foreign gambling money stole Jerusalem away from the Palestinians. Nothing high minded happened, just dirty filthy politics.

    Clearly the Jews bought their way into defeating our political process – their money stole our democracy away from us. In the process, they filched America’s good name.

    To the shame of us all – the upshot of this is that our president took a land from one peoples and gave it to another. We all know that is the outcome.

    In order to see this finalized, the good Jew Mercer is cleaning up a few details by putting a guilt trip on the 7,000,000,000 people of our planet.

    Think Peace – Art

    p.s. Adelson in China. Wherever there is some dirty business, you will find a willing Jew pushing others aside.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sam J.
    Jews Must Never Forget Trump for Remembering Our Unforgettable Jerusalem

    They won't forget Trump. They will stab him in the back just like everyone else that deals with them.

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  108. Talha says:
    @Tyrion 2

    Or we can be mature, despite theological differences, and see about sharing the space in an equitable manner…your move.
     
    The issue isn't theological. The issue is extreme Muslim dysfunction.

    Although to contradict myself, I can't help but assume that part of the cause of the extreme dysfunction of Muslims is indeed theological. I have no better explanation.

    A city that, within just a few decades of you having partial over now has nonsense like this publicly flaunted through its streets:
     
    Having gays parading around the streets is distasteful. Throwing them off buildings as your lot are wont to do is horrific.

    So again, answer the question
     
    How long will you guys remain satisfied as being obviously the special ed class of humanity?

    The issue is extreme Muslim dysfunction.

    Again, you place this term out there which is your opinion; why should I simply agree with this? Based on what – your say so?

    I mean, in the West, 90% or more people have multiple sexual partners before marriage. From our perspective, that is an extreme dysfunction. I’ve seen how my co-workers’ kids talk to them or how they talk about their own parents to strangers – where is the respect? That is another major dysfunction. See- you don’t find these to be important so you pooh pooh these things. I will guarantee you – there is no society that will last that does not honor their parents – it will be apparent in due time.

    Muslims were at the top of the world materially for a while, the Abbasid Caliphate being so advanced and rich that Europeans had nothing of value to trade except for European slaves (if you think I am joking you should read some serious history – actually you can just consult your folks since Jews were often the middlemen, so they should have the receipts). Been there, done that – now it’s someone else’s turn, why should we be jealous? I certainly am not.

    dysfunction of Muslims is indeed theological

    There are dysfunctions in Muslim societies and dysfunctions in other societies. Go to South America or parts of East Asia, plenty of dysfunction per European standards there. How is that explained theologically?

    Sure Muslims are going through some sanguinary times, but go back a few decades to 1930′/40′s Europe – why was the continent so dysfunctional, to the extreme? I mean they were burning each others’ kids alive without abandon on an industrial scale. Was that theological?

    Furthermore, if I recall – before your and our idiot ethno-nationalists showed up, you guys were living in the hundreds of thousands across the Muslim world in Turkey, Algeria, Morocco, Egypt, etc. If we were so dysfunctional, why weren’t they in Europe…oh…wait…

    Throwing them off buildings as your lot are wont to do is horrific.

    Sure, but that’s what extremists do – I mean, they have a rep to keep, right? They can’t very well have them go through a court process with witnesses and evidence and then apply a reasonable ta’zir right? What would their friends say; ISIS, you cucks!

    How long will you guys remain satisfied as being obviously the special ed class of humanity?

    I don’t know; how long will you remain thinking that you are the special class of humanity?

    Have you read Tortoise and the Hare? I suggest a refresher:

    http://read.gov/aesop/025.html

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    • Agree: jacques sheete
    • Replies: @Tyrion 2

    Again, you place this term out there which is your opinion; why should I simply agree with this? Based on what – your say so?
     
    Where's the high Muslim achievement?

    Furthermore, if I recall – before your and our idiot ethno-nationalists showed up, you guys were living in the hundreds of thousands across the Muslim world in Turkey, Algeria, Morocco, Egypt, etc. If we were so dysfunctional, why weren’t they in Europe…oh…wait
     
    Jews lived in all of those lands before Islam existed.

    Sure, but that’s what extremists do – I mean, they have a rep to keep, right? They can’t very well have them go through a court process with witnesses and evidence and then apply a reasonable ta’zir right? What would their friends say; ISIS, you cucks!
     
    It is disingenous to argue that Islamic extremism has nothing to do with Islam.

    I don’t know; how long will you remain thinking that you are the special class of humanity?
     
    Wouldn't it be nice if Muslims contributed as much to human advancement as other groups? Or at least, not orders of magnitude less?

    Muslims were at the top of the world materially for a while, the Abbasid Caliphate being so advanced and rich
     
    Interesting that you have to go a thousand years ago. Also interesting that your statement begs the question of what advances were those Muslim Abbasids responsible for?

    Have you read Tortoise and the Hare?
     
    That story took place over a day. This has taken place over a thousand years, and the finish line has been crossed by countless generations.
    , @Sam J.
    I don't care if Muslims are dysfunctional or not it doesn't make Jews any better. It doesn't make Jews desirable people. It's actually not a choice at except for Jews who to cloud the issue of their malfeasance, deception and horrible behavior. We should get rid of both of them. They deserve each other.
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  109. Geordie says: • Website

    What a ridiculous distortion of reality. Tell enough lies and some of it will be believed seems to be the m.o. of the author of this piece, Surely no UNZ readers will agree with any of this fairy story, will they? How many United nations resolutions are these shameless liars and twisters of the truth ignoring already?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Truth

    Surely no UNZ readers will agree with any of this fairy story, will they?
     
    LMAO! Dude, you'd be surprised. There were about 50 people on another thread that said they thought that black people thought Wakanda was real.
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  110. Talha says:
    @Anonymous

    ... heads of the Christian Churches in the area already stated clearly that Jerusalem should retain international status:
     
    The heads of local churches will say whatever their violent Muslim neighbors tell them to say.

    They have thoroughly absorbed the lesson that you don't speak up against violent, supremacist Muslims.

    BTW Al-Quds is not really the "name" of Jerusalem in Arabic, but more like a moniker meaning "the Holy One."

    Israel should encourage Arabs to use the same moniker for Mecca and Medina.

    The heads of local churches will say whatever their violent Muslim neighbors tell them to say.

    A little birdie told you this? Provide evidence. If your contention is, if it wasn’t for these darned Muslims, the local Christians would love us; then this is a laughable claim. Ted Cruz was booed off stage by Arab Christians in America for his nonsense talk:

    Al-Quds, Bayt al-Maqdis, Majid al-Aqsa are all terms that refer variously to the city, area or specifically the temple mount compound. We’ll call it whatever we like, what does it matter to you guys? You guys can call it Jewrusalem for all we care. This is about details, this is about being able to reasonably share a space that we all find sacred and without bloodshed. The constant downplaying of the legitimacy of the Muslim claim shows us that your side is insincere and does not mean business – which is fine, we can do it the hard way if you want.

    Makkah used to be Bakkah and Madinah (which literally means “The City”) used to be known as Yathrib. We arleady have honorific names for them; Makkah al-Mukarramah (Makkah the Enobled) and Madina tul-Munawwara (Madinah the Resplendent).

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    You state:

    Al-Quds ["the Holy One"], ... refer[s] to the city [of Jerusalem]

    Makkah used to be Bakkah and Madinah (which literally means “The City”) used to be known as Yathrib. We already have honorific names for them; Makkah al-Mukarramah (Makkah the Enobled) and Madina tul-Munawwara (Madinah the Resplendent).
     

    Precisely my point - Arabs have no NAME for Jerusalem, and instead only use only the by-name "the Holy One." By contrast, as you state, Mecca has and Medina had an actual name ( to which an honorific by-name was added.

    Think of U.S. newspapers referring to "the Sunshine State." "The Sunshine State" is not a name, but a by-name, essentially a nickname. The name is Florida. Jerusalem has no actual name in Arabic.

    , @Talha
    Meant to say..."this isn't about details"
    , @Truth
    I just watched that Lyin' Ted clip. Man, I didn't think they could possibly take it that low.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=315&v=x2ZVihACwQ0
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  111. annamaria says:
    @Tyrion 2

    Or we can be mature, despite theological differences, and see about sharing the space in an equitable manner…your move.
     
    The issue isn't theological. The issue is extreme Muslim dysfunction.

    Although to contradict myself, I can't help but assume that part of the cause of the extreme dysfunction of Muslims is indeed theological. I have no better explanation.

    A city that, within just a few decades of you having partial over now has nonsense like this publicly flaunted through its streets:
     
    Having gays parading around the streets is distasteful. Throwing them off buildings as your lot are wont to do is horrific.

    So again, answer the question
     
    How long will you guys remain satisfied as being obviously the special ed class of humanity?

    “Having gays parading around the streets is distasteful. Throwing them off buildings as your lot are wont to do is horrific.”
    – Sure. Iran is very-very bad, but when Israel has been killing children in Gaza Ghetto – oh, that’s Ok because Israelis are the giants of morality from you point of view.
    Don’t you like the Jewish Museum of Tolerance built, notwithstanding the vigorous protests of decent people, on the ancient Palestinian cemetery? How about the massive theft of Palestinian land? The Israel’s support for Daesh/ISIS because the Golan Heights?
    Considering the Kagans’ clan well-documented warmongering — and even an active and profitable collaboration of its member with the neo-Nazi in Ukraine — Jews should be rather more careful when judging other people.

    https://dninews.com/article/israel-notes-growth-anti-semitism-ukraine

    https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-more-anti-semitic-than-russia/25384493.html

    https://charlenecleoeiben54123.wordpress.com/2014/03/15/washington-fuels-rise-of-neo-nazism-and-anti-semitism-in-ukraine-the-role-of-john-mccain/

    Instead of hunting the senescent former Nazi guards, better take a look at the current supporters and collaborators with neo-Nazi both in Canada and the US. You cannot screech about Holocaust and, at the same time, see no evil in Nuland-Kagan’s endeavors in Kiev, as well as in Ledeen’s involvement in yellow cake forgery and Wolfowitz’, Kristol’, Krauthummer’ and such fanatical support for the supreme crimes of the wars of aggression in the Middle East. And don’t forget your own kapos.

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    • Agree: Alden
    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
    No idea who you are babbling to. Better get back on your delusional hobby horse and ride off to talk to someone who is interested.
    , @Sam J.
    "...“Having gays parading around the streets is distasteful. Throwing them off buildings as your lot are wont to do is horrific.”..."

    It's an either or issue but if I had a choice I'd rather hang around people that throw homosexuals off buildings than have people around who blow up our buildings like on 9-11 and involve us in numerous wars not in our interest.
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  112. snag says:

    “They’re better off in Israel” — Anywhere would be better than in that Swiss cheese rat hole where the zionist cowards in uniforms threat them worse than animals ,…

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    • Replies: @snag
    Ad. 112 -

    Forgot link - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vy_XYG-VYhg&feature=youtu.be
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  113. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Talha

    The heads of local churches will say whatever their violent Muslim neighbors tell them to say.
     
    A little birdie told you this? Provide evidence. If your contention is, if it wasn't for these darned Muslims, the local Christians would love us; then this is a laughable claim. Ted Cruz was booed off stage by Arab Christians in America for his nonsense talk:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2ZVihACwQ0

    Al-Quds, Bayt al-Maqdis, Majid al-Aqsa are all terms that refer variously to the city, area or specifically the temple mount compound. We'll call it whatever we like, what does it matter to you guys? You guys can call it Jewrusalem for all we care. This is about details, this is about being able to reasonably share a space that we all find sacred and without bloodshed. The constant downplaying of the legitimacy of the Muslim claim shows us that your side is insincere and does not mean business - which is fine, we can do it the hard way if you want.

    Makkah used to be Bakkah and Madinah (which literally means "The City") used to be known as Yathrib. We arleady have honorific names for them; Makkah al-Mukarramah (Makkah the Enobled) and Madina tul-Munawwara (Madinah the Resplendent).

    You state:

    Al-Quds ["the Holy One"], … refer[s] to the city [of Jerusalem]

    Makkah used to be Bakkah and Madinah (which literally means “The City”) used to be known as Yathrib. We already have honorific names for them; Makkah al-Mukarramah (Makkah the Enobled) and Madina tul-Munawwara (Madinah the Resplendent).

    Precisely my point – Arabs have no NAME for Jerusalem, and instead only use only the by-name “the Holy One.” By contrast, as you state, Mecca has and Medina had an actual name ( to which an honorific by-name was added.

    Think of U.S. newspapers referring to “the Sunshine State.” “The Sunshine State” is not a name, but a by-name, essentially a nickname. The name is Florida. Jerusalem has no actual name in Arabic.

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    • Replies: @Talha

    Jerusalem has no actual name in Arabic.
     
    OK - yeah, it wasn't originally founded by Arabs. Why would it have an original Arabic name?

    The transliterated name that is sometimes used is:
    أورشليم (Oorushaleem)

    So if we call it by a nickname - as you say - it makes a difference exactly how?

    , @snag
    Where did the Hebrews got that name from not from the Mesopotamian tablets by any chance? That City was known as Urusalima or Urusalim 4000 years BC - Until they find some reliable proof that David ever existed the City of David name is a fairy tale and their so called right to Jerusalem its nothing but an usurpation .
    , @Tyrion 2
    I don't see why Arabs can't swallow their pride and see the tremendous achievements that Israel has made and learn from it. The Japanese did it when Europeans first arrived and that later kicked off the Meiji Restoration.

    Sure there is plenty that is bad about Israel, as there is about any country, but you'd think that some people in the region might just one day think "hey, we could do better."

    But no, it seems beyond your co-religionists' ken.
    , @Alden
    The Assyrian, Babylonian, Greek, Roman and Byzantine rulers all kept the name Jerusalem. When the Arab Muslims conquered the area, they kept the name.

    It’s no different from the numerous American cities and towns than kept the American Indian names.
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  114. snag says:
    @snag
    "They’re better off in Israel" -- Anywhere would be better than in that Swiss cheese rat hole where the zionist cowards in uniforms threat them worse than animals ,...
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  115. Talha says:
    @Talha

    The heads of local churches will say whatever their violent Muslim neighbors tell them to say.
     
    A little birdie told you this? Provide evidence. If your contention is, if it wasn't for these darned Muslims, the local Christians would love us; then this is a laughable claim. Ted Cruz was booed off stage by Arab Christians in America for his nonsense talk:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2ZVihACwQ0

    Al-Quds, Bayt al-Maqdis, Majid al-Aqsa are all terms that refer variously to the city, area or specifically the temple mount compound. We'll call it whatever we like, what does it matter to you guys? You guys can call it Jewrusalem for all we care. This is about details, this is about being able to reasonably share a space that we all find sacred and without bloodshed. The constant downplaying of the legitimacy of the Muslim claim shows us that your side is insincere and does not mean business - which is fine, we can do it the hard way if you want.

    Makkah used to be Bakkah and Madinah (which literally means "The City") used to be known as Yathrib. We arleady have honorific names for them; Makkah al-Mukarramah (Makkah the Enobled) and Madina tul-Munawwara (Madinah the Resplendent).

    Meant to say…“this isn’t about details”

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  116. Oh no says:

    Oh no, another of those crazed, half-demented religion-nuts arguing that God gave me this and that God meant me to have that.

    Try proving your title to real estate in a court of law arguing from this or that scripture. Try proving your genetic lineage from the ancient peoples you claim are the rightful owners.

    The whole problem has its roots in the mass emigration of Europeans to Palestine and the subsequent forcible eviction of those who had been living there since generations. The religion of both the displacers and the displaced is irrelevant. This whole matter should be examined without using any religious label. Europe washed its hands and its conscience clean by handing over someone else’s home to those who had been its prior victims, creating another group of victims in the process.

    A pragmatic and reasonable solution based on universal human equality and equal rights for all who live there has, alas, been prevented by religious nuts and political extremists. A pox on all of them, no matter what religious or tribal labelling and arguments they employ. If there is a God, He must be wincing as He hears greedy nonsense being invoked in his name to claim title to his land.

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    • Replies: @snag
    .https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/thumblarge_683/6839683.jpg
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  117. Truth says:
    @Geordie
    What a ridiculous distortion of reality. Tell enough lies and some of it will be believed seems to be the m.o. of the author of this piece, Surely no UNZ readers will agree with any of this fairy story, will they? How many United nations resolutions are these shameless liars and twisters of the truth ignoring already?

    Surely no UNZ readers will agree with any of this fairy story, will they?

    LMAO! Dude, you’d be surprised. There were about 50 people on another thread that said they thought that black people thought Wakanda was real.

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  118. The land-thieves never stop, do they?

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    • Replies: @jacques sheete

    The land-thieves never stop, do they?

     

    No.

    And they never stop rationalizing the theft, brutality and outright sadism, either.

    Sickos, the lot of 'em.
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  119. Talha says:
    @Anonymous
    You state:

    Al-Quds ["the Holy One"], ... refer[s] to the city [of Jerusalem]

    Makkah used to be Bakkah and Madinah (which literally means “The City”) used to be known as Yathrib. We already have honorific names for them; Makkah al-Mukarramah (Makkah the Enobled) and Madina tul-Munawwara (Madinah the Resplendent).
     

    Precisely my point - Arabs have no NAME for Jerusalem, and instead only use only the by-name "the Holy One." By contrast, as you state, Mecca has and Medina had an actual name ( to which an honorific by-name was added.

    Think of U.S. newspapers referring to "the Sunshine State." "The Sunshine State" is not a name, but a by-name, essentially a nickname. The name is Florida. Jerusalem has no actual name in Arabic.

    Jerusalem has no actual name in Arabic.

    OK – yeah, it wasn’t originally founded by Arabs. Why would it have an original Arabic name?

    The transliterated name that is sometimes used is:
    أورشليم (Oorushaleem)

    So if we call it by a nickname – as you say – it makes a difference exactly how?

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  120. snag says:
    @Anonymous
    You state:

    Al-Quds ["the Holy One"], ... refer[s] to the city [of Jerusalem]

    Makkah used to be Bakkah and Madinah (which literally means “The City”) used to be known as Yathrib. We already have honorific names for them; Makkah al-Mukarramah (Makkah the Enobled) and Madina tul-Munawwara (Madinah the Resplendent).
     

    Precisely my point - Arabs have no NAME for Jerusalem, and instead only use only the by-name "the Holy One." By contrast, as you state, Mecca has and Medina had an actual name ( to which an honorific by-name was added.

    Think of U.S. newspapers referring to "the Sunshine State." "The Sunshine State" is not a name, but a by-name, essentially a nickname. The name is Florida. Jerusalem has no actual name in Arabic.

    Where did the Hebrews got that name from not from the Mesopotamian tablets by any chance? That City was known as Urusalima or Urusalim 4000 years BC – Until they find some reliable proof that David ever existed the City of David name is a fairy tale and their so called right to Jerusalem its nothing but an usurpation .

    Read More
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  121. @Bill Jones
    The land-thieves never stop, do they?

    The land-thieves never stop, do they?

    No.

    And they never stop rationalizing the theft, brutality and outright sadism, either.

    Sickos, the lot of ‘em.

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  122. @dearieme
    "the name of the city that was sacred to Jews for nearly two thousand years before Muhammad": over-egging the pudding. There weren't any Jews two thousand years before Muhammad in any recognisable sense. The Torah didn't exist, there were no monotheists living thereabouts as far as archaeologists can tell, and Jerusalem at the time David purportedly existed was an unfortified village i.e. it wasn't a city and it didn't have a defensive wall.

    Were you never taught that exaggeration weakens a case?

    I was quoting the article. If you had read the article before jumping into the comments, you would know that.

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    • Replies: @dearieme
    God God, the article quickly proved itself unreadable.
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  123. snag says:
    @Oh no
    Oh no, another of those crazed, half-demented religion-nuts arguing that God gave me this and that God meant me to have that.

    Try proving your title to real estate in a court of law arguing from this or that scripture. Try proving your genetic lineage from the ancient peoples you claim are the rightful owners.

    The whole problem has its roots in the mass emigration of Europeans to Palestine and the subsequent forcible eviction of those who had been living there since generations. The religion of both the displacers and the displaced is irrelevant. This whole matter should be examined without using any religious label. Europe washed its hands and its conscience clean by handing over someone else's home to those who had been its prior victims, creating another group of victims in the process.

    A pragmatic and reasonable solution based on universal human equality and equal rights for all who live there has, alas, been prevented by religious nuts and political extremists. A pox on all of them, no matter what religious or tribal labelling and arguments they employ. If there is a God, He must be wincing as He hears greedy nonsense being invoked in his name to claim title to his land.

    Read More
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  124. @Ilyana_Rozumova
    Thank you. I do hope that you do not underestimated me, because you are one of the smartest on this site.

    So this is not really address to you but to some readers on this site.
    I do love to write short funny comments
    But there is always something hidden behind the funny part.

    Napoleon said: army marches on its stomach. And protein is important part of the diet.
    Once the army conquers a certain people they rob the richer people of their gold and money.
    But what they can get from poor plebs? They impose on them payment of tribute on them.
    How can poor people to pay tribute? Only by what they have got. Some domestic animals, nothing else!

    Thank you, ma’am. I like to poke fun whenever possible and I’m glad you didn’t take offense.

    That’s exactly right about tribute. I view paying taxes to the federal government as being forced to pay tribute, and tribute is extortion.

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    • Agree: jacques sheete
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  125. @Tyrion 2

    Like I mentioned before, we are under sacred obligation to recognize the rights of Christians and Jews to the city – they are under no similar obligation from their side. If you want to fight for it – don’t waste our time trying to dissect our tradition through your own lens
     
    I just want to live to see the '1.6 billion' Muslims contribute even a tenth as much to the sum of human achievement as a few millions Jews have.

    Islam is the original package, it has come full circle, we are as old as mankind itself.
     
    Yes, back when your ancestors were flying around in pyramids and other amazing inventions. I've heard this type of story before. Since Islam is defined by Mohammed being 'the messenger' and Mohammed clearly lived well after the start of History, it is straightforward that Islam is not so old. Otherwise it is just Judaism with a few more exhortations to kill the unbelievers and many fewer instructions to think rationally and get educated.

    Yeah, well… muslims are trying to equal jews, but they will have to kill an awful lot more people to even be in the same league.

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    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
    It doesn't seem that Muslims have any problem with killing people. They kill more each year in a nunber of their countries than have been killed in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict since it started.
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  126. dearieme says:
    @Twodees Partain
    I was quoting the article. If you had read the article before jumping into the comments, you would know that.

    God God, the article quickly proved itself unreadable.

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    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
    Ahaha, I understand. It just kind of freaked me out that you assumed I had written that crap. ;-)
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  127. Tyrion 2 says:
    @Talha

    Were belief in Islam among the populace not such a great predictor of how dysfunctional a place is
     
    These kinds of things don't phase us. We have our dysfunctions, other people have their own:
    "This nation pioneered modern life. Now epic numbers of Americans are killing themselves with opioids to escape it."
    http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/02/americas-opioid-epidemic.html

    You look at a tribal, rural society like Niger and compare it to France and say - it's dysfunctional. No it isn't - it is OK for a tribal, rural society - It certainly is not for a city-dwelling urban one. They are poor, dirt poor, but that does not mean they are dysfunctional.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPnL0SI8NG8

    The issue is that objectively Islam is a curse on every country that has it, contemporaneously.
     
    This is hyperbole and completely not objective. Some Muslim lands seem like hell-holes and some are very charming, if not at the material level of success as other nations. You are judging things on the material level and that's fine, that's your prerogative - but then you have to recognize that it is a subjective POV. But I've known people that have traveled through the Muslim world and have reported happy memories; my daughter's high school French teacher (a single White lady) loves going to Senegal to immerse herself in a French-speaking culture.

    Atheism and secularism seems to be a bigger curse - societies are imploding from these.

    There is no doubt that we have too many zealots running around causing trouble. We need to get that in check. That comes through education. What does not help is the destabilization of many countries in the Muslim world that were doing alright - Iraq and Libya didn't just fall apart out of the sky.

    Peace.

    As a normative kind of person I am sympathetic to your viewpoint. There’s still a stark lack of achievement though. I wish it were not so but I’d love to see Muslims address it, and rectify it, because it is extreme.

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    • Replies: @Talha
    Again, here we are talking about perspectives. If you are saying we don't have much material achievement, then - as I said - we had that side of our civilization and maybe it will come again, who knows. That has never been the purpose of Islam, it never came to make a society materially prosperous as its goal. In fact it should put a damper on the level of material opulence a society attains or even desires. And for good reason; the whole purpose is to pass through this life with a clean soul one that is ultimately unattached to the material, mundane existence. Why people judge a religion that states the following by material terms is beyond me:
    "Know that the life of this world is but amusement and diversion and adornment and boasting to one another and competition in increase of wealth and children - like the example of a rain whose [resulting] plant growth pleases the tillers; then it dries and you see it turned yellow; then it becomes [scattered] debris. And in the Hereafter is severe punishment or forgiveness from Allah and approval. And what is the worldly life except the enjoyment of delusion?" (57:20)

    The Early Muslims were fairly poor desert dwellers, so unsophisticated that they had to hire other people to build mosques like the ones you see in the earliest part of Damascus. They were unimpressed by the material opulence of the Byzantines and Persians. One does not barter one's soul for the paltry life of this world, it's a bad bargain. This doesn't mean we strive to live like paupers only that it's all in the attitude; what do you prioritize as your purpose?

    Our civilizational achievement isn't really in the great mosques, artwork, etc. that's just a side-effect (though the works of poetry and aphorisms are truly something) - it's that we still have men like these walking around...
    https://www.amazon.com/Signs-Horizons-Meetings-Knowledge-Illumination/dp/0989364011

    ...and that despite our differences, we are still more united in our hearts than other people (and this is clear because, even the ones who despise us, lump us all together, no matter which background we come from or what age - and we wouldn't have it any other way).

    People who understand this and feel that same urge to transcend end up joining us (or other spiritual paths), others are free to prioritize their purpose in life as they please.
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  128. Tyrion 2 says:
    @AaronB
    The beautiful mosques, poetry, Arabic calligraphy, the romance of the desert, the Sufis, the Arabian Nights - the Islamic world was full of romance and beauty. Jews have, the ghetto? Fiddler on the roof?

    Sir Richard Burton, Rene Guenon, Rimbaud, Robert Byron, Lawrence of Arabia, Wilfred Thesiger, Freya Stark, Gertrude Bell, Paul Bowls, and countless others, were all captivated by the "charm" of the Muslim world, even if not all converted. Was just reading a biography of author Robert Irwin who converted to Sufism. The "perennial philosophers" we're fascinated by Islam but had no interest in Judaism. The 60s were fascinated by Sufism.

    The Muslim world exerted a fascination on Western intellectuals, authors, poets, explorers, and writers that has no counterpart with Judaism - only westerners interested in money convert to judaism, like our good Ivanka.

    Judaism deserves to be analyzed for its interesting features - but charm? Wit? Such nonsense only detracts from the truly fascinating aspects of Judaism - one of which, for instance, is its complete neglect of charm and imagination in order to specialize in getting money. It shows the potential strengths of specialization as well as its necessary sacrifices.

    But no need to muddy the waters here - reality is richer and more fascinating.

    So a fifth of the world’s population has achieved only that…

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    • Replies: @AaronB
    I was just pointing out that Jews dont excel Muslims in the charm or culture department.

    Jewish culture has no appeal to to cultured Europeans, while Islam has lots.

    In other ways, Jewish accomplishment is impressive, like with money, and Jewish culture has managed to attract whites who are passionate about money rather than culture.

    Value judgements are subjective. I was just trying to get the facts straight.
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  129. Tyrion 2 says:
    @neutral

    I just want to live to see the ’1.6 billion’ Muslims contribute even a tenth as much to the sum of human achievement as a few millions Jews have.
     
    It's not achievements, it's the endless misery that jews have blighted this with world that jews win the top spot for, nobody gets close to the jews when it comes to amount of death, suffering and despair they have inflicted, and this is with their much smaller numbers compared to Muslims.

    Boring! Jews ain’t to blame for all your ills. Yours is a pathetic position to take.

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    • Replies: @Truth

    Boring! Jews ain’t to blame for all your ills. Yours is a pathetic position to take.
     
    I know, right?

    Everybody knows it's blacks.
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  130. Tyrion 2 says:
    @jacques sheete

    I just want to live to see the ’1.6 billion’ Muslims contribute even a tenth as much to the sum of human achievement as a few millions Jews have.
     
    That old canard again?

    Get over it already. Most of us goyim would be a helluva lot better off without your stinking "achievements." Only a total knucklehead could believe any so called benefits have come without a heavy price.

    The first step in addressing the dearth of Muslim achievement is recognising it. Were you committed more to the well-being of your culture than your two dimensional self-esteeem, you would happily recognise this.

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    • Replies: @jacques sheete

    The first step in addressing the dearth of Muslim achievement...
     
    You state that as if you know something about it. I doubt that you do.

    The first step for you is to recognize that "achievement" means different things to different people, and what the Zio-crowd has achieved is nothing to strut about nor do any so called Zio achievements exonerate anyone from the mal-achievements imposed on the rest of us.

    You seem to have a bizarre way of self justification. As I noted previously, you can take your so called "achievements" and stick 'em where de sun don't shine.

    Very few are impressed with your "achievements" so go ahead and wallow in self pride while you still can, and remember, there are plenty of people who're tired of hearing the "chosen" "eternal victims" whine.

    According to your "Torah" G-d hisownself could hardly stand your type and was repeatedly smiting you. I can see why. I think it's about time he or it or whatever serves ya'll another whoopin, not that it'll do much good.

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  131. First, I want to acknowledge a shift in the content of your commentaries. In my view they include a sincere attempt to address the subtleties of varying viewpoints.

    Laudable to say the least. I have to view your position not from the value of sacredness, first, but rather from the stated goal of President Trump. That stated goal was that this was a first step toward peace between Palestine and Israel. I thought it a bold and extraordinary claim considering the disputed issues concerning the religious origins and value of the Temple Mount, muchless Jerusalem itself.

    Your comments don’t address what would be central to US polity. If in fact the US is going to support Israel’s every move, then peace as a primary objective is not a bad choice, even if announcing the capital is a strange way to begin a peace process. I am unclear what it is you are pressing a sacred solution or one that is political. I remain unconvinced that claims of the sacred validates property rights. I noticed you avoided first setting the date for when Israel was established, and the method by which status of nationhood occurred. I have repeatedly attempted to locate a political or legal body that acknowledge your state of Israel, by which to claim Jerusalem is its capital., and none exists.

    God does not operate outside the realities he created for human beings, that includes the issues of established sovereign territories and their understood boundaries. So if in fact it’s the sacred path to statehood you desire to press, then you need to indicate when God so established the statehood, since he last had the people of Israel scattered to the winds. Curious of the supernatural transcends and seals the matter.

    I think Israel has a right to exist as nation, but then that is predicated on some very distinct political events – even if sacred. The sacred gave Israel the boot. I am curious when you think the sacred invited Israel as a state back in.

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  132. snag says:
    @Rurik

    Gaza was “returned” to the Palestinians, who promptly destroyed the hothouses Israelis had built there, and planted in the ground Qassam rocket launchers, instead.
     
    what a vile, lying, duplicitous bitch you are Ilana

    http://mondoweiss.net/2014/08/propaganda-dehumanize-palestinians/

    (used to be) pretty on the outside, ugly as the Bitch of Buchenwald on the inside

    and note, I believe in the self-determination of all people, and that means the Jews too of course.

    But what I can't abide is the treachery of the Zionists, as they blame the Palestinians for the conditions in Gaza. What kind of low-life scum lies like that?!

    What kind of sick, twisted, perverted slimebag steals people's land, murders their loved ones, and then blames the victim for it all?

    If the Zionists had spent a fraction of the money they use slaughtering and menacing and stealing and corrupting and bombing and murdering....

    and used those funds to purchase the land and homes in voluntary transactions, I wonder if they wouldn't own Jerusalem fee simple by now.

    But that's not their way, is it? When you can assassinate and then lie about it.

    And most importantly, have people to torment, and humiliate, and torture and imprison and shoot at and generally try to strip away their dignity, because that is what you OT Jewish supremacists are all about, isn't it?

    living out your psychotic delusions of megalomaniacal awesomeness!

    your masturbatory narrative of your tribe as 'chosen', and the only people who actually matter! And soooo, so much better than all the rest!!!


    From the Bitch of Buchenwald to the Bitch of Jerusalem (too bad it doesn't have the catchy literation ; )

    Those hasbara crap peddlers are everywhere 24/7 /365 .

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  133. Tyrion 2 says:
    @Talha

    The issue is extreme Muslim dysfunction.
     
    Again, you place this term out there which is your opinion; why should I simply agree with this? Based on what - your say so?

    I mean, in the West, 90% or more people have multiple sexual partners before marriage. From our perspective, that is an extreme dysfunction. I've seen how my co-workers' kids talk to them or how they talk about their own parents to strangers - where is the respect? That is another major dysfunction. See- you don't find these to be important so you pooh pooh these things. I will guarantee you - there is no society that will last that does not honor their parents - it will be apparent in due time.

    Muslims were at the top of the world materially for a while, the Abbasid Caliphate being so advanced and rich that Europeans had nothing of value to trade except for European slaves (if you think I am joking you should read some serious history - actually you can just consult your folks since Jews were often the middlemen, so they should have the receipts). Been there, done that - now it's someone else's turn, why should we be jealous? I certainly am not.


    dysfunction of Muslims is indeed theological
     
    There are dysfunctions in Muslim societies and dysfunctions in other societies. Go to South America or parts of East Asia, plenty of dysfunction per European standards there. How is that explained theologically?

    Sure Muslims are going through some sanguinary times, but go back a few decades to 1930'/40's Europe - why was the continent so dysfunctional, to the extreme? I mean they were burning each others' kids alive without abandon on an industrial scale. Was that theological?

    Furthermore, if I recall - before your and our idiot ethno-nationalists showed up, you guys were living in the hundreds of thousands across the Muslim world in Turkey, Algeria, Morocco, Egypt, etc. If we were so dysfunctional, why weren't they in Europe...oh...wait...


    Throwing them off buildings as your lot are wont to do is horrific.
     
    Sure, but that's what extremists do - I mean, they have a rep to keep, right? They can't very well have them go through a court process with witnesses and evidence and then apply a reasonable ta'zir right? What would their friends say; ISIS, you cucks!

    How long will you guys remain satisfied as being obviously the special ed class of humanity?
     
    I don't know; how long will you remain thinking that you are the special class of humanity?

    Have you read Tortoise and the Hare? I suggest a refresher:
    http://read.gov/aesop/025.html

    Again, you place this term out there which is your opinion; why should I simply agree with this? Based on what – your say so?

    Where’s the high Muslim achievement?

    Furthermore, if I recall – before your and our idiot ethno-nationalists showed up, you guys were living in the hundreds of thousands across the Muslim world in Turkey, Algeria, Morocco, Egypt, etc. If we were so dysfunctional, why weren’t they in Europe…oh…wait

    Jews lived in all of those lands before Islam existed.

    Sure, but that’s what extremists do – I mean, they have a rep to keep, right? They can’t very well have them go through a court process with witnesses and evidence and then apply a reasonable ta’zir right? What would their friends say; ISIS, you cucks!

    It is disingenous to argue that Islamic extremism has nothing to do with Islam.

    I don’t know; how long will you remain thinking that you are the special class of humanity?

    Wouldn’t it be nice if Muslims contributed as much to human advancement as other groups? Or at least, not orders of magnitude less?

    Muslims were at the top of the world materially for a while, the Abbasid Caliphate being so advanced and rich

    Interesting that you have to go a thousand years ago. Also interesting that your statement begs the question of what advances were those Muslim Abbasids responsible for?

    Have you read Tortoise and the Hare?

    That story took place over a day. This has taken place over a thousand years, and the finish line has been crossed by countless generations.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha

    Where’s the high Muslim achievement?
     
    Define high achievement.

    Jews lived in all of those lands before Islam existed.
     
    This is true and not true. They did, but not in those numbers. So you completely want to ignore the fact that thousands of Jews moved into Muslim lands and did fairly well there? There were no Jews that were taken into Abbasid or Mamluk or Ottoman territory after being expelled from other lands? Really?

    It is disingenous to argue that Islamic extremism has nothing to do with Islam.
     
    Of course it has to do with Islam - we have extremists. What, you don't have Jewish extremists? Really?

    human advancement
     
    Define advancement.

    Also interesting that your statement begs the question of what advances were those Muslim Abbasids responsible for?
     
    So you are completely unfamiliar with men like Khwarezmi, Biruni, Ibn al-Haytham, Ibn Rushd, etc.?We're cool with that. What's interesting is that under the mural of Civilizations at the Library of Congress; Islam is listed as the civilization that contributed "Physics":
    https://simergphotoblog.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/loc-evolution-of-civilization.jpg

    Oh, and...
    "Herman, the first Rabin-Shvidler Joint Post-Doctoral Fellow in Jewish Studies, delivered his talk, “Legal Theory and Revelation: Jewish Law in an Islamic Milieu,” at the Lincoln Center campus...
    He explored the competing philosophies of two of the most influential Jewish jurists and philosophers of the Middle Ages, Seʿadya ben Joseph Gaon and Moses Maimonides...Both, however, would have been heavily influenced by Muhammad ibn Idrīs al-Shāfiʿī, a Palestinian-Arab Muslim theologian, writer, and scholar, who lived from 767 to 820 A.D. Shāfiʿī insisted that only revealed text, such as the Koran or certain oral traditions, constituted acceptable legal sources.
    'By putting Seʿadya and Maimonides in dialogue with Islamic legal thought, we can better understand their theories on their own terms, why their assertions were compelling to them and their immediate readers, and why later readers often struggled with their ideas,' Herman said."
    https://news.fordham.edu/politics-and-society/scholar-details-jewish-jurisprudence-influenced-islam/

    I'm not even posting anything about how Hebrew was influenced by Arabic, you can do your own research on that one.

    Do you know how many constellations and stars still have Arabic names?


    This has taken place over a thousand years, and the finish line has been crossed by countless generations.
     
    Oh, so you are unfamiliar with it.
    , @Talha
    A question though? What does this have to do with the sharing of Jerusalem? Are we supposed to present the Israelis with some certificate of how many "achievements" or "goal posts" we have reached before we qualify? I'm sorry, I have a difficult time in coming to terms with a proposition that our Ummah has to justify ourselves to yours - yours is a rounding error when compared to us. Why do we need your approval?
    , @Alden
    The subject of the article is not Muslim achievements but Trump’s moving the American embassy to Jerusalem.

    You are way off topic with your ridiculous attempt to bring Muslim dis function into the discussion.

    Stuck to the topic.
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  134. Tyrion 2 says:
    @annamaria
    "Having gays parading around the streets is distasteful. Throwing them off buildings as your lot are wont to do is horrific."
    -- Sure. Iran is very-very bad, but when Israel has been killing children in Gaza Ghetto - oh, that’s Ok because Israelis are the giants of morality from you point of view.
    Don't you like the Jewish Museum of Tolerance built, notwithstanding the vigorous protests of decent people, on the ancient Palestinian cemetery? How about the massive theft of Palestinian land? The Israel's support for Daesh/ISIS because the Golan Heights?
    Considering the Kagans' clan well-documented warmongering -- and even an active and profitable collaboration of its member with the neo-Nazi in Ukraine -- Jews should be rather more careful when judging other people.
    https://dninews.com/article/israel-notes-growth-anti-semitism-ukraine
    https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-more-anti-semitic-than-russia/25384493.html
    https://charlenecleoeiben54123.wordpress.com/2014/03/15/washington-fuels-rise-of-neo-nazism-and-anti-semitism-in-ukraine-the-role-of-john-mccain/
    Instead of hunting the senescent former Nazi guards, better take a look at the current supporters and collaborators with neo-Nazi both in Canada and the US. You cannot screech about Holocaust and, at the same time, see no evil in Nuland-Kagan’s endeavors in Kiev, as well as in Ledeen’s involvement in yellow cake forgery and Wolfowitz’, Kristol', Krauthummer’ and such fanatical support for the supreme crimes of the wars of aggression in the Middle East. And don't forget your own kapos.

    No idea who you are babbling to. Better get back on your delusional hobby horse and ride off to talk to someone who is interested.

    Read More
    • Replies: @annamaria
    You did not recognize your own words? -- "Having gays parading around the streets is distasteful. Throwing them off buildings as your lot are wont to do is horrific."
    Then I need to repost my text: "Iran is very-very bad, but when Israel has been killing children in Gaza Ghetto – oh, that’s Ok because Israelis are the giants of morality from your point of view.
    Don’t you like the Jewish Museum of Tolerance built, despite the vigorous protests from decent people, on the ancient Palestinian cemetery? How about the massive theft of Palestinian land? The Israel’s support for Daesh/ISIS because the Golan Heights?
    Considering the Kagans’ clan well-documented warmongering — and even an active and profitable collaboration of its member with the neo-Nazi in Ukraine — Jews should be rather more careful when judging other people. https://consortiumnews.com/2015/03/20/a-family-business-of-perpetual-war/
    The following links are about the rise of anti-semitism in Ukraine AFTER the victorious Revolution of Indecency, which was "arranged" by Nuland-Kagan and the CIA in cooperation with local neo-Nazis in 2014. So much for the memory of victims of the WWII, Tyrion 2?
    https://dninews.com/article/israel-notes-growth-anti-semitism-ukraine
    https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-more-anti-semitic-than-russia/25384493.html
    https://charlenecleoeiben54123.wordpress.com/2014/03/15/washington-fuels-rise-of-neo-nazism-and-anti-semitism-in-ukraine-the-role-of-john-mccain/
    Instead of hunting the senescent former Nazi guards, better take a look at the current supporters and collaborators with neo-Nazi both in Canada and the US. You cannot screech about Holocaust and, at the same time, see no evil in Nuland-Kagan’s endeavors in Kiev, as well as in Ledeen’s involvement in yellow cake forgery and Wolfowitz’, Kristol’, Krauthummer’ and such fanatical support for the supreme crimes of the wars of aggression in the Middle East. And don’t forget your own kapos."
    -- What was unclear in the above text for you? The neo-Nazi connections of the Kagans or the subhuman war-mongering of Israel-firsters in the US and UK?
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  135. snag says:
    @renfro
    Pardon me dear Ilana, but would you kindly blow your smoke up your own ass and not ours.

    Anyone want the real non biblical history of Jerusalem ?...the one agreed on by all creditable historians. Then follow the time line of Arabia in Thompson's book below. It is the factual historical account acknowledged by all historians world wide. None of these dates or events or groups are disputed by any serious historian.....except of course by the Jewish myth makers.

    # Jerusalem was not founded by Jews, i.e. adherents of the Jewish religion. It was founded between 3000 BCE and 2600 BCE by a West Semitic people or possibly the Canaanites, the common ancestors of Palestinians, Lebanese, many Syrians and Jordanians, and many Jews. But when it was founded Jews did not exist.

    # Jerusalem was founded in honor of the ancient god Shalem. It does not mean City of Peace but rather ‘built-up place of Shalem.”

    # The “Jewish people” were not building Jerusalem 3000 years ago, i.e. 1000 BCE. First of all, it is not clear when exactly Judaism as a religion centered on the worship of the one God took firm form. It appears to have been a late development since no evidence of worship of anything but ordinary Canaanite deities has been found in archeological sites through 1000 BCE. There was no invasion of geographical Palestine from Egypt by former slaves in the 1200s BCE. The pyramids had been built much earlier and had not used slave labor. The chronicle of the events of the reign of Ramses II on the wall in Luxor does not know about any major slave revolts or flights by same into the Sinai peninsula. Egyptian sources never heard of Moses or the 10 plagues & etc. Jews and Judaism emerged from a certain social class of Canaanites over a period of centuries inside Palestine.

    # Jerusalem not only was not being built by the likely then non-existent “Jewish people” in 1000 BCE, but Jerusalem probably was not even inhabited at that point in history. Jerusalem appears to have been abandoned between 1000 BCE and 900 BCE, the traditional dates for the united kingdom under David and Solomon. So Jerusalem was not ‘the city of David,’ since there was no city when he is said to have lived. No sign of magnificent palaces or great states has been found in the archeology of this period, and the Assyrian tablets, which recorded even minor events throughout the Middle East, such as the actions of Arab queens, don’t know about any great kingdom of David and Solomon in geographical Palestine.

    # Since archeology does not show the existence of a Jewish kingdom or kingdoms in the so-called First Temple Period, it is not clear when exactly the Jewish people would have ruled Jerusalem except for the Hasmonean Kingdom.
    The Assyrians conquered Jerusalem in 722.
    The Babylonians took it in 597 and ruled it until they were themselves conquered in 539 BCE by the Achaemenids of ancient Iran, who ruled Jerusalem until Alexander the Great took the Levant in the 330s BCE.
    Alexander’s descendants, the Ptolemies ruled Jerusalem until 198 when Alexander’s other descendants, the Seleucids, took the city.
    With the Maccabean Revolt in 168 BCE, the Jewish Hasmonean kingdom did rule Jerusalem until 37 BCE, though Antigonus II Mattathias, the last Hasmonean, only took over Jerusalem with the help of the Parthian dynasty in 40 BCE.
    Herod ruled 37 BCE until the Romans conquered what they called Palestine in 6 CE (CE= ‘Common Era’ or what Christians call AD).
    The Romans and then the Eastern Roman Empire of Byzantium ruled Jerusalem from 6 CE until 614 CE when the Iranian Sasanian Empire Conquered it, ruling until 629 CE when the Byzantines took it back.

    #The Muslims conquered Jerusalem in 638 and ruled it until 1099 when the Crusaders conquered it.
    The Crusaders killed or expelled Jews and Muslims from the city.
    The Muslims under Saladin took it back in 1187 CE and allowed Jews to return, and Muslims ruled it until the end of World War I, or altogether for about 1192 years.

    #Adherents of Judaism did not found Jerusalem. It existed for perhaps 2700 years before anything we might recognize as Judaism arose. Jewish rule may have been no longer than 170 years or so, i.e., the kingdom of the Hasmoneans.

    # Therefore if historical building of Jerusalem and historical connection with Jerusalem establishes sovereignty over it as Netanyahu claims, here are the groups that have the greatest claim to the city:

    A. The Muslims, who ruled it and built it over 1191 years.

    B. The Egyptians, who ruled it as a vassal state for several hundred years in the second millennium BCE.

    C. The Italians, who ruled it about 444 years until the fall of the Roman Empire in 450 CE.

    D. The Iranians, who ruled it for 205 years under the Achaemenids, for three years under the Parthians (insofar as the last Hasmonean was actually their vassal), and for 15 years under the Sasanids.

    E. The Greeks, who ruled it for over 160 years if we count the Ptolemys and Seleucids as Greek. If we count them as Egyptians and Syrians, that would increase the Egyptian claim and introduce a Syrian one.

    F. The successor states to the Byzantines, which could be either Greece or Turkey, who ruled it 188 years, though if we consider the heir to be Greece and add in the time the Hellenistic Greek dynasties ruled it, that would give Greece nearly 350 years as ruler of Jerusalem.

    G. There is an Iraqi claim to Jerusalem based on the Assyrian and Babylonian conquests, as well as perhaps the rule of the Ayyubids (Saladin’s dynasty), who were Kurds from Iraq.

    Source, Thomas Thompson History of Arabia
    http://www.amazon.ca/gp/search?index=books&linkCode=qs&keywords=0567083608

    Great post! ,…

    Another eye-opening book on this subject by te same author: The Mythic Past: Biblical Archaeology And The Myth Of Israel by Thomas L. Thompson.

    https://www.amazon.com/Mythic-Past-Biblical-Archaeology-Israel/dp/0465006493

    Read More
    • Replies: @jacques sheete
    And another is Israeli historian Shlomo Sand's " The Invention of the Jewish People."

    https://www.amazon.com/Invention-Jewish-People-Shlomo-Sand/dp/1844676234
    , @Alden
    Isn’t Jacob’s grave actually a medieval septic tank? There’s a magazine Biblical archeology that claims every rock in Palestine is proof of the OT. It’s put out by evangelicals.

    I enjoy the magazine but it’s just a crock.
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  136. Tyrion 2 says:
    @Anonymous
    You state:

    Al-Quds ["the Holy One"], ... refer[s] to the city [of Jerusalem]

    Makkah used to be Bakkah and Madinah (which literally means “The City”) used to be known as Yathrib. We already have honorific names for them; Makkah al-Mukarramah (Makkah the Enobled) and Madina tul-Munawwara (Madinah the Resplendent).
     

    Precisely my point - Arabs have no NAME for Jerusalem, and instead only use only the by-name "the Holy One." By contrast, as you state, Mecca has and Medina had an actual name ( to which an honorific by-name was added.

    Think of U.S. newspapers referring to "the Sunshine State." "The Sunshine State" is not a name, but a by-name, essentially a nickname. The name is Florida. Jerusalem has no actual name in Arabic.

    I don’t see why Arabs can’t swallow their pride and see the tremendous achievements that Israel has made and learn from it. The Japanese did it when Europeans first arrived and that later kicked off the Meiji Restoration.

    Sure there is plenty that is bad about Israel, as there is about any country, but you’d think that some people in the region might just one day think “hey, we could do better.”

    But no, it seems beyond your co-religionists’ ken.

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    • Replies: @Alden
    Christian Lebanon was the Switzerland of the Middle East for centuries till the Jews chased the Palestinian refugees into Lebanon and then invaded Lebanon and almost destroyed it.
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  137. Talha says:
    @Tyrion 2
    As a normative kind of person I am sympathetic to your viewpoint. There's still a stark lack of achievement though. I wish it were not so but I'd love to see Muslims address it, and rectify it, because it is extreme.

    Again, here we are talking about perspectives. If you are saying we don’t have much material achievement, then – as I said – we had that side of our civilization and maybe it will come again, who knows. That has never been the purpose of Islam, it never came to make a society materially prosperous as its goal. In fact it should put a damper on the level of material opulence a society attains or even desires. And for good reason; the whole purpose is to pass through this life with a clean soul one that is ultimately unattached to the material, mundane existence. Why people judge a religion that states the following by material terms is beyond me:
    “Know that the life of this world is but amusement and diversion and adornment and boasting to one another and competition in increase of wealth and children – like the example of a rain whose [resulting] plant growth pleases the tillers; then it dries and you see it turned yellow; then it becomes [scattered] debris. And in the Hereafter is severe punishment or forgiveness from Allah and approval. And what is the worldly life except the enjoyment of delusion?” (57:20)

    The Early Muslims were fairly poor desert dwellers, so unsophisticated that they had to hire other people to build mosques like the ones you see in the earliest part of Damascus. They were unimpressed by the material opulence of the Byzantines and Persians. One does not barter one’s soul for the paltry life of this world, it’s a bad bargain. This doesn’t mean we strive to live like paupers only that it’s all in the attitude; what do you prioritize as your purpose?

    Our civilizational achievement isn’t really in the great mosques, artwork, etc. that’s just a side-effect (though the works of poetry and aphorisms are truly something) – it’s that we still have men like these walking around…

    https://www.amazon.com/Signs-Horizons-Meetings-Knowledge-Illumination/dp/0989364011

    …and that despite our differences, we are still more united in our hearts than other people (and this is clear because, even the ones who despise us, lump us all together, no matter which background we come from or what age – and we wouldn’t have it any other way).

    People who understand this and feel that same urge to transcend end up joining us (or other spiritual paths), others are free to prioritize their purpose in life as they please.

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  138. @Tyrion 2
    The first step in addressing the dearth of Muslim achievement is recognising it. Were you committed more to the well-being of your culture than your two dimensional self-esteeem, you would happily recognise this.

    The first step in addressing the dearth of Muslim achievement…

    You state that as if you know something about it. I doubt that you do.

    The first step for you is to recognize that “achievement” means different things to different people, and what the Zio-crowd has achieved is nothing to strut about nor do any so called Zio achievements exonerate anyone from the mal-achievements imposed on the rest of us.

    You seem to have a bizarre way of self justification. As I noted previously, you can take your so called “achievements” and stick ‘em where de sun don’t shine.

    Very few are impressed with your “achievements” so go ahead and wallow in self pride while you still can, and remember, there are plenty of people who’re tired of hearing the “chosen” “eternal victims” whine.

    According to your “Torah” G-d hisownself could hardly stand your type and was repeatedly smiting you. I can see why. I think it’s about time he or it or whatever serves ya’ll another whoopin, not that it’ll do much good.

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  139. Tyrion 2 says:
    @Twodees Partain
    Yeah, well... muslims are trying to equal jews, but they will have to kill an awful lot more people to even be in the same league.

    It doesn’t seem that Muslims have any problem with killing people. They kill more each year in a nunber of their countries than have been killed in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict since it started.

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  140. Rurik says:
    @mcohen
    "What kind of sick, twisted, perverted slimebag steals people’s land, murders their loved ones, and then blames the victim for it all?"

    Whats this......custers last stand.or sitting bulls turd

    “What kind of sick, twisted, perverted slimebag steals people’s land, murders their loved ones, and then blames the victim for it all?”

    Whats this……custers last stand

    I’m glad you mentioned the Amerindians vis-a-vis the genocide going on in Palestine today

    there are a few things worthy of note by way of contrasting those two events..

    First and foremost is that in the pre-WWII world, it was for the strong to encroach on the weak.

    The ‘Indians’ did it to each other with gusto, and it was the unwritten law of the world, that when a people were confronted by military superiority, they succumbed.

    The Aztecs and Apaches did it to their neighbors, and had it done to them in turn.

    But then at Nuremburg, the world created a new covenant. They repudiated the metric that ‘might = right’, and created a new world order for us all, and we all had our young souls as children, mortified by the ‘horrors of the Holocaust’, as we were all carefully indoctrinated into believing that genocide and Nazis and ethnic cleansing were the worst evils that have ever besieged the planet.

    That is the first thing to keep in mind.

    The second thing is that as the Europeans were ethnically cleansing and genociding the ‘Indians’, there was much handwringing over their tragic fate. Many tried to educate them and make civilized men and women out of them, so that they could assimilate into the culture.

    Sometimes it worked, and often it didn’t, but the point is that they were treated as victims of the white newcomers, not as evil people for having the temerity to exist.

    It would be impossible to even imagine a white statesman or philosopher to say the existence of the Indians was an affront to God’s will, and blame them for living. Such arrogance would have been inconceivable. They may have invoked God’s will for ‘manifest destiny’, and the eventual replacement of the Indians, but they would hardly blame the Indians for being here first.

    For that kind of sinister wickedness, we have to look to the Zionists, who blame the Palestinians for living on “their” land.

    So there are two very important differences. One is that the post WWII Jews demanded after the war was over, (and the Germans were the ones being systematically genocided and raped and enslaved, etc..) that the Nazis were the most evil of all evil people who had ever lived! Because they wanted to ethnically cleanse the Jews out of their lands, and often persecuted the Jews who resisted or fought against the Nazis.

    So..

    If it’s wrong, wrong. wrong.. (the most evil thing that anyone can do) to ethnically cleanse others out of your lands..

    as this has been the mantra that Jews have barraged us with for generations…

    then by what fucked up right do they have to ethnically cleanse other people out of those other people’s lands?!

    You see? If what the Nazis did was the ultimate evil, then how the fuck are we all supposed to sit by while the screeching Jews, howling at us all for not doing enough to protect them.. murder and steal and genocide others?

    It’s like Eli Weasel scourging us all as anti-Semites for allowing the Holocaust to happen on one hand, as he’s engaging in the genocidal Nakba with the other hand.

    The hypocrisy is staggering and an affront to simple human intelligence and decency.

    and then to add to that, these genocidal hypocrites actually have the pus nads to blame the victims of their genocidal hatred and wrath.

    I’m sure Gen. Custer killed a lot of Indians, (murder or genocide if that’s what you want to call it) but I doubt very seriously that he brow beat them for fighting back, or that he stood on their corpses and blamed them for living on reservations and all the attendant humiliations and depravations.

    How someone could look at the Indians, having suffered so much, and languishing on the reservations, and then demand ‘look at how wrenched they are! Look at what they’ve done to themselves!

    for that kind of sickening ‘blaming of the victims’, we have to look at the singularly loathsome Zionists

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    • Replies: @mcohen
    Troll
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  141. Read More
    • Replies: @Alden
    The tales of Boewulf, King Arthur, Siegfried and Singlied are about as truthful as David and the Jewish myths.
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  142. @renfro
    Pardon me dear Ilana, but would you kindly blow your smoke up your own ass and not ours.

    Anyone want the real non biblical history of Jerusalem ?...the one agreed on by all creditable historians. Then follow the time line of Arabia in Thompson's book below. It is the factual historical account acknowledged by all historians world wide. None of these dates or events or groups are disputed by any serious historian.....except of course by the Jewish myth makers.

    # Jerusalem was not founded by Jews, i.e. adherents of the Jewish religion. It was founded between 3000 BCE and 2600 BCE by a West Semitic people or possibly the Canaanites, the common ancestors of Palestinians, Lebanese, many Syrians and Jordanians, and many Jews. But when it was founded Jews did not exist.

    # Jerusalem was founded in honor of the ancient god Shalem. It does not mean City of Peace but rather ‘built-up place of Shalem.”

    # The “Jewish people” were not building Jerusalem 3000 years ago, i.e. 1000 BCE. First of all, it is not clear when exactly Judaism as a religion centered on the worship of the one God took firm form. It appears to have been a late development since no evidence of worship of anything but ordinary Canaanite deities has been found in archeological sites through 1000 BCE. There was no invasion of geographical Palestine from Egypt by former slaves in the 1200s BCE. The pyramids had been built much earlier and had not used slave labor. The chronicle of the events of the reign of Ramses II on the wall in Luxor does not know about any major slave revolts or flights by same into the Sinai peninsula. Egyptian sources never heard of Moses or the 10 plagues & etc. Jews and Judaism emerged from a certain social class of Canaanites over a period of centuries inside Palestine.

    # Jerusalem not only was not being built by the likely then non-existent “Jewish people” in 1000 BCE, but Jerusalem probably was not even inhabited at that point in history. Jerusalem appears to have been abandoned between 1000 BCE and 900 BCE, the traditional dates for the united kingdom under David and Solomon. So Jerusalem was not ‘the city of David,’ since there was no city when he is said to have lived. No sign of magnificent palaces or great states has been found in the archeology of this period, and the Assyrian tablets, which recorded even minor events throughout the Middle East, such as the actions of Arab queens, don’t know about any great kingdom of David and Solomon in geographical Palestine.

    # Since archeology does not show the existence of a Jewish kingdom or kingdoms in the so-called First Temple Period, it is not clear when exactly the Jewish people would have ruled Jerusalem except for the Hasmonean Kingdom.
    The Assyrians conquered Jerusalem in 722.
    The Babylonians took it in 597 and ruled it until they were themselves conquered in 539 BCE by the Achaemenids of ancient Iran, who ruled Jerusalem until Alexander the Great took the Levant in the 330s BCE.
    Alexander’s descendants, the Ptolemies ruled Jerusalem until 198 when Alexander’s other descendants, the Seleucids, took the city.
    With the Maccabean Revolt in 168 BCE, the Jewish Hasmonean kingdom did rule Jerusalem until 37 BCE, though Antigonus II Mattathias, the last Hasmonean, only took over Jerusalem with the help of the Parthian dynasty in 40 BCE.
    Herod ruled 37 BCE until the Romans conquered what they called Palestine in 6 CE (CE= ‘Common Era’ or what Christians call AD).
    The Romans and then the Eastern Roman Empire of Byzantium ruled Jerusalem from 6 CE until 614 CE when the Iranian Sasanian Empire Conquered it, ruling until 629 CE when the Byzantines took it back.

    #The Muslims conquered Jerusalem in 638 and ruled it until 1099 when the Crusaders conquered it.
    The Crusaders killed or expelled Jews and Muslims from the city.
    The Muslims under Saladin took it back in 1187 CE and allowed Jews to return, and Muslims ruled it until the end of World War I, or altogether for about 1192 years.

    #Adherents of Judaism did not found Jerusalem. It existed for perhaps 2700 years before anything we might recognize as Judaism arose. Jewish rule may have been no longer than 170 years or so, i.e., the kingdom of the Hasmoneans.

    # Therefore if historical building of Jerusalem and historical connection with Jerusalem establishes sovereignty over it as Netanyahu claims, here are the groups that have the greatest claim to the city:

    A. The Muslims, who ruled it and built it over 1191 years.

    B. The Egyptians, who ruled it as a vassal state for several hundred years in the second millennium BCE.

    C. The Italians, who ruled it about 444 years until the fall of the Roman Empire in 450 CE.

    D. The Iranians, who ruled it for 205 years under the Achaemenids, for three years under the Parthians (insofar as the last Hasmonean was actually their vassal), and for 15 years under the Sasanids.

    E. The Greeks, who ruled it for over 160 years if we count the Ptolemys and Seleucids as Greek. If we count them as Egyptians and Syrians, that would increase the Egyptian claim and introduce a Syrian one.

    F. The successor states to the Byzantines, which could be either Greece or Turkey, who ruled it 188 years, though if we consider the heir to be Greece and add in the time the Hellenistic Greek dynasties ruled it, that would give Greece nearly 350 years as ruler of Jerusalem.

    G. There is an Iraqi claim to Jerusalem based on the Assyrian and Babylonian conquests, as well as perhaps the rule of the Ayyubids (Saladin’s dynasty), who were Kurds from Iraq.

    Source, Thomas Thompson History of Arabia
    http://www.amazon.ca/gp/search?index=books&linkCode=qs&keywords=0567083608

    Bravo! Great comment!

    Love the opening sentence!

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  143. Talha says:
    @Tyrion 2

    Again, you place this term out there which is your opinion; why should I simply agree with this? Based on what – your say so?
     
    Where's the high Muslim achievement?

    Furthermore, if I recall – before your and our idiot ethno-nationalists showed up, you guys were living in the hundreds of thousands across the Muslim world in Turkey, Algeria, Morocco, Egypt, etc. If we were so dysfunctional, why weren’t they in Europe…oh…wait
     
    Jews lived in all of those lands before Islam existed.

    Sure, but that’s what extremists do – I mean, they have a rep to keep, right? They can’t very well have them go through a court process with witnesses and evidence and then apply a reasonable ta’zir right? What would their friends say; ISIS, you cucks!
     
    It is disingenous to argue that Islamic extremism has nothing to do with Islam.

    I don’t know; how long will you remain thinking that you are the special class of humanity?
     
    Wouldn't it be nice if Muslims contributed as much to human advancement as other groups? Or at least, not orders of magnitude less?

    Muslims were at the top of the world materially for a while, the Abbasid Caliphate being so advanced and rich
     
    Interesting that you have to go a thousand years ago. Also interesting that your statement begs the question of what advances were those Muslim Abbasids responsible for?

    Have you read Tortoise and the Hare?
     
    That story took place over a day. This has taken place over a thousand years, and the finish line has been crossed by countless generations.

    Where’s the high Muslim achievement?

    Define high achievement.

    Jews lived in all of those lands before Islam existed.

    This is true and not true. They did, but not in those numbers. So you completely want to ignore the fact that thousands of Jews moved into Muslim lands and did fairly well there? There were no Jews that were taken into Abbasid or Mamluk or Ottoman territory after being expelled from other lands? Really?

    It is disingenous to argue that Islamic extremism has nothing to do with Islam.

    Of course it has to do with Islam – we have extremists. What, you don’t have Jewish extremists? Really?

    human advancement

    Define advancement.

    Also interesting that your statement begs the question of what advances were those Muslim Abbasids responsible for?

    So you are completely unfamiliar with men like Khwarezmi, Biruni, Ibn al-Haytham, Ibn Rushd, etc.?We’re cool with that. What’s interesting is that under the mural of Civilizations at the Library of Congress; Islam is listed as the civilization that contributed “Physics”:
    Oh, and…
    “Herman, the first Rabin-Shvidler Joint Post-Doctoral Fellow in Jewish Studies, delivered his talk, “Legal Theory and Revelation: Jewish Law in an Islamic Milieu,” at the Lincoln Center campus…
    He explored the competing philosophies of two of the most influential Jewish jurists and philosophers of the Middle Ages, Seʿadya ben Joseph Gaon and Moses Maimonides…Both, however, would have been heavily influenced by Muhammad ibn Idrīs al-Shāfiʿī, a Palestinian-Arab Muslim theologian, writer, and scholar, who lived from 767 to 820 A.D. Shāfiʿī insisted that only revealed text, such as the Koran or certain oral traditions, constituted acceptable legal sources.
    ‘By putting Seʿadya and Maimonides in dialogue with Islamic legal thought, we can better understand their theories on their own terms, why their assertions were compelling to them and their immediate readers, and why later readers often struggled with their ideas,’ Herman said.”

    https://news.fordham.edu/politics-and-society/scholar-details-jewish-jurisprudence-influenced-islam/

    I’m not even posting anything about how Hebrew was influenced by Arabic, you can do your own research on that one.

    Do you know how many constellations and stars still have Arabic names?

    This has taken place over a thousand years, and the finish line has been crossed by countless generations.

    Oh, so you are unfamiliar with it.

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    • Replies: @annamaria
    Thank you for the beautiful post.
    , @Alden
    I don’t think it matters if Muslim culture over the centuries is great, terrible or mediocre.

    What matters is that using first the Turks, then the British, Stalin for a few years and now the United States the Zionists stole an entire country from its rightful owners.

    Personally I don’t think Israel will last more than 200 more years. About 20 percent of the Jewish population of Israelis live in the Inited States because they can make a better living here. The Mizrahi totally hate the European Jews.

    Most of the Israelis hate conscription and don’t want to fight any more. That’s always been the job of the goyim.

    Betnahuyu was talking about taking over Ukraine as a refuge recently.

    Being nationalistic and productive, Israel just isn’t Jewish. They are a global people constantly in the move from one country to another. They are not really producers, they are dependent on the producers.

    Of course my theory doesn’t help the Palestinians who are suffering now.
    , @Tyrion 2

    Define high achievement.
     
    Going to the moon, building the internet, curing diseases, creating the novel, discovering DNA...

    The sophist asks the other to define the obvious in the forlorn hope that the other makes a small technical error so that the sophist can go back to their studied ignorance and pretend that the obvious does not exist.


    This is true and not true. They did, but not in those numbers. So you completely want to ignore the fact that thousands of Jews moved into Muslim lands and did fairly well there? There were no Jews that were taken into Abbasid or Mamluk or Ottoman territory after being expelled from other lands? Really?
     
    You're flogging a straw man. Jews tend to do fairly well wherever they turn up, just as Muslims tend to do fairly badly. This is the phenomena, especially the Muslim part, that we are discussing. It is the phenomena that would render great benefit were there an answer to why it almost always is. Now your turn...

    So you are completely unfamiliar with men like Khwarezmi, Biruni, Ibn al-Haytham, Ibn Rushd, etc.?We’re cool with that. What’s interesting is that under the mural of Civilizations at the Library of Congress; Islam is listed as the civilization that contributed “Physics”
     

    Yay, that a fifth of the globe contributed a handful of moderately interesting figures and that America in a fit of extremely generous and obviously wrong politically correct generosity allowed that fifth an achievement is your best argument...

    Surely your argument now rests mostly on American condescension?

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  144. Alden says:

    Yes, allegedly the Jews did conquer the land of Canaan and Jerusalem cerca 1,000 BC.

    But it was conquered by the Assyrians about 225 years later and not reconquered by Jews until 1948.

    A reign of 225 years over the course of 2,948 years is ridiculous.

    And who’s to say David and the conquest of Canaan actually happened? The Hebrew bible began inthe 500s BC in Babylon. It was nothing but a collection of myths then as now.

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  145. @snag
    Great post! ,...

    Another eye-opening book on this subject by te same author: The Mythic Past: Biblical Archaeology And The Myth Of Israel by Thomas L. Thompson.

    https://www.amazon.com/Mythic-Past-Biblical-Archaeology-Israel/dp/0465006493

    And another is Israeli historian Shlomo Sand’s ” The Invention of the Jewish People.”

    https://www.amazon.com/Invention-Jewish-People-Shlomo-Sand/dp/1844676234

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  146. @Rurik

    Gaza was “returned” to the Palestinians, who promptly destroyed the hothouses Israelis had built there, and planted in the ground Qassam rocket launchers, instead.
     
    what a vile, lying, duplicitous bitch you are Ilana

    http://mondoweiss.net/2014/08/propaganda-dehumanize-palestinians/

    (used to be) pretty on the outside, ugly as the Bitch of Buchenwald on the inside

    and note, I believe in the self-determination of all people, and that means the Jews too of course.

    But what I can't abide is the treachery of the Zionists, as they blame the Palestinians for the conditions in Gaza. What kind of low-life scum lies like that?!

    What kind of sick, twisted, perverted slimebag steals people's land, murders their loved ones, and then blames the victim for it all?

    If the Zionists had spent a fraction of the money they use slaughtering and menacing and stealing and corrupting and bombing and murdering....

    and used those funds to purchase the land and homes in voluntary transactions, I wonder if they wouldn't own Jerusalem fee simple by now.

    But that's not their way, is it? When you can assassinate and then lie about it.

    And most importantly, have people to torment, and humiliate, and torture and imprison and shoot at and generally try to strip away their dignity, because that is what you OT Jewish supremacists are all about, isn't it?

    living out your psychotic delusions of megalomaniacal awesomeness!

    your masturbatory narrative of your tribe as 'chosen', and the only people who actually matter! And soooo, so much better than all the rest!!!


    From the Bitch of Buchenwald to the Bitch of Jerusalem (too bad it doesn't have the catchy literation ; )

    If the Zionists had spent a fraction of the money they use slaughtering and menacing and stealing and corrupting and bombing and murdering….

    Bbbbb…but dem Muslimz ain’t “accomplished“!!!! And besides, we’re chosen by a Gawd we don’t even believe in!!!

    How kewl izzat?

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  147. Alden says:
    @snag
    Great post! ,...

    Another eye-opening book on this subject by te same author: The Mythic Past: Biblical Archaeology And The Myth Of Israel by Thomas L. Thompson.

    https://www.amazon.com/Mythic-Past-Biblical-Archaeology-Israel/dp/0465006493

    Isn’t Jacob’s grave actually a medieval septic tank? There’s a magazine Biblical archeology that claims every rock in Palestine is proof of the OT. It’s put out by evangelicals.

    I enjoy the magazine but it’s just a crock.

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    • Replies: @snag
    Until they provide some proof its a fairy tale, nothing but stolen or plagiarized myths of other cultures and civilization.

    Oops! It looks like our Creator found the Egyptians around 1200-1400 years earlier than Abraham if you believe that he existed.

    http://www.tabletmag.com/scroll/176348/bas-relief-depicts-circumcision-in-ancient-egypt

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  148. Alden says:
    @Tyrion 2
    I don't see why Arabs can't swallow their pride and see the tremendous achievements that Israel has made and learn from it. The Japanese did it when Europeans first arrived and that later kicked off the Meiji Restoration.

    Sure there is plenty that is bad about Israel, as there is about any country, but you'd think that some people in the region might just one day think "hey, we could do better."

    But no, it seems beyond your co-religionists' ken.

    Christian Lebanon was the Switzerland of the Middle East for centuries till the Jews chased the Palestinian refugees into Lebanon and then invaded Lebanon and almost destroyed it.

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    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
    Unfortunately demographics had already sealed Lebanon's fate long before Israel was persuaded to intervene in order to stop the malfeasance of Palestinian groups. Demographics had been shifting for a century as the French had expanded the borders when they took over from the Ottomans. This led to Christians and Druze dwindling as a proportion of the population.

    As a matter of clear historical record, Southern Lebanese threw rice at the incoming Israelis to welcome them. Unfortunately for Israel, mission creep meant they long overstayed and the interventiom turned sour. Lebanese may often blame Israel for the Palestinians ending up in Lebanon amd causing so much trouble but that is as much implied sympathy to Israel's situation as it is looking for a scapegoat.
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  149. Talha says:
    @Tyrion 2

    Again, you place this term out there which is your opinion; why should I simply agree with this? Based on what – your say so?
     
    Where's the high Muslim achievement?

    Furthermore, if I recall – before your and our idiot ethno-nationalists showed up, you guys were living in the hundreds of thousands across the Muslim world in Turkey, Algeria, Morocco, Egypt, etc. If we were so dysfunctional, why weren’t they in Europe…oh…wait
     
    Jews lived in all of those lands before Islam existed.

    Sure, but that’s what extremists do – I mean, they have a rep to keep, right? They can’t very well have them go through a court process with witnesses and evidence and then apply a reasonable ta’zir right? What would their friends say; ISIS, you cucks!
     
    It is disingenous to argue that Islamic extremism has nothing to do with Islam.

    I don’t know; how long will you remain thinking that you are the special class of humanity?
     
    Wouldn't it be nice if Muslims contributed as much to human advancement as other groups? Or at least, not orders of magnitude less?

    Muslims were at the top of the world materially for a while, the Abbasid Caliphate being so advanced and rich
     
    Interesting that you have to go a thousand years ago. Also interesting that your statement begs the question of what advances were those Muslim Abbasids responsible for?

    Have you read Tortoise and the Hare?
     
    That story took place over a day. This has taken place over a thousand years, and the finish line has been crossed by countless generations.

    A question though? What does this have to do with the sharing of Jerusalem? Are we supposed to present the Israelis with some certificate of how many “achievements” or “goal posts” we have reached before we qualify? I’m sorry, I have a difficult time in coming to terms with a proposition that our Ummah has to justify ourselves to yours – yours is a rounding error when compared to us. Why do we need your approval?

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    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
    We got here because I pointed out that Islam's supposed spiritual attachment to Jerusalem is a mere artefact of Islam's blundering plagiarism. I then expanded to point out that such ill-understanding and uncreative plagiarism does not only describe much of the origin of Islam but it also describes much of the output of Muslim 'culture'. This led me to ask why this was and if you agreed that this is a deep shame? You avoided the obvious and are now back to implying that because 1.6 billion want something, even if they don't understand it, then 1.6 billion should get it because they have a propensity to violence and tend to do nothing more productive. Which ironically provides a perfectly logical response to my previous question. So thank you for your answer! My next question is how are Muslims going to go about solving all of the problems in the many Muslim countries?
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  150. snag says:
    @renfro
    Pardon me dear Ilana, but would you kindly blow your smoke up your own ass and not ours.

    Anyone want the real non biblical history of Jerusalem ?...the one agreed on by all creditable historians. Then follow the time line of Arabia in Thompson's book below. It is the factual historical account acknowledged by all historians world wide. None of these dates or events or groups are disputed by any serious historian.....except of course by the Jewish myth makers.

    # Jerusalem was not founded by Jews, i.e. adherents of the Jewish religion. It was founded between 3000 BCE and 2600 BCE by a West Semitic people or possibly the Canaanites, the common ancestors of Palestinians, Lebanese, many Syrians and Jordanians, and many Jews. But when it was founded Jews did not exist.

    # Jerusalem was founded in honor of the ancient god Shalem. It does not mean City of Peace but rather ‘built-up place of Shalem.”

    # The “Jewish people” were not building Jerusalem 3000 years ago, i.e. 1000 BCE. First of all, it is not clear when exactly Judaism as a religion centered on the worship of the one God took firm form. It appears to have been a late development since no evidence of worship of anything but ordinary Canaanite deities has been found in archeological sites through 1000 BCE. There was no invasion of geographical Palestine from Egypt by former slaves in the 1200s BCE. The pyramids had been built much earlier and had not used slave labor. The chronicle of the events of the reign of Ramses II on the wall in Luxor does not know about any major slave revolts or flights by same into the Sinai peninsula. Egyptian sources never heard of Moses or the 10 plagues & etc. Jews and Judaism emerged from a certain social class of Canaanites over a period of centuries inside Palestine.

    # Jerusalem not only was not being built by the likely then non-existent “Jewish people” in 1000 BCE, but Jerusalem probably was not even inhabited at that point in history. Jerusalem appears to have been abandoned between 1000 BCE and 900 BCE, the traditional dates for the united kingdom under David and Solomon. So Jerusalem was not ‘the city of David,’ since there was no city when he is said to have lived. No sign of magnificent palaces or great states has been found in the archeology of this period, and the Assyrian tablets, which recorded even minor events throughout the Middle East, such as the actions of Arab queens, don’t know about any great kingdom of David and Solomon in geographical Palestine.

    # Since archeology does not show the existence of a Jewish kingdom or kingdoms in the so-called First Temple Period, it is not clear when exactly the Jewish people would have ruled Jerusalem except for the Hasmonean Kingdom.
    The Assyrians conquered Jerusalem in 722.
    The Babylonians took it in 597 and ruled it until they were themselves conquered in 539 BCE by the Achaemenids of ancient Iran, who ruled Jerusalem until Alexander the Great took the Levant in the 330s BCE.
    Alexander’s descendants, the Ptolemies ruled Jerusalem until 198 when Alexander’s other descendants, the Seleucids, took the city.
    With the Maccabean Revolt in 168 BCE, the Jewish Hasmonean kingdom did rule Jerusalem until 37 BCE, though Antigonus II Mattathias, the last Hasmonean, only took over Jerusalem with the help of the Parthian dynasty in 40 BCE.
    Herod ruled 37 BCE until the Romans conquered what they called Palestine in 6 CE (CE= ‘Common Era’ or what Christians call AD).
    The Romans and then the Eastern Roman Empire of Byzantium ruled Jerusalem from 6 CE until 614 CE when the Iranian Sasanian Empire Conquered it, ruling until 629 CE when the Byzantines took it back.

    #The Muslims conquered Jerusalem in 638 and ruled it until 1099 when the Crusaders conquered it.
    The Crusaders killed or expelled Jews and Muslims from the city.
    The Muslims under Saladin took it back in 1187 CE and allowed Jews to return, and Muslims ruled it until the end of World War I, or altogether for about 1192 years.

    #Adherents of Judaism did not found Jerusalem. It existed for perhaps 2700 years before anything we might recognize as Judaism arose. Jewish rule may have been no longer than 170 years or so, i.e., the kingdom of the Hasmoneans.

    # Therefore if historical building of Jerusalem and historical connection with Jerusalem establishes sovereignty over it as Netanyahu claims, here are the groups that have the greatest claim to the city:

    A. The Muslims, who ruled it and built it over 1191 years.

    B. The Egyptians, who ruled it as a vassal state for several hundred years in the second millennium BCE.

    C. The Italians, who ruled it about 444 years until the fall of the Roman Empire in 450 CE.

    D. The Iranians, who ruled it for 205 years under the Achaemenids, for three years under the Parthians (insofar as the last Hasmonean was actually their vassal), and for 15 years under the Sasanids.

    E. The Greeks, who ruled it for over 160 years if we count the Ptolemys and Seleucids as Greek. If we count them as Egyptians and Syrians, that would increase the Egyptian claim and introduce a Syrian one.

    F. The successor states to the Byzantines, which could be either Greece or Turkey, who ruled it 188 years, though if we consider the heir to be Greece and add in the time the Hellenistic Greek dynasties ruled it, that would give Greece nearly 350 years as ruler of Jerusalem.

    G. There is an Iraqi claim to Jerusalem based on the Assyrian and Babylonian conquests, as well as perhaps the rule of the Ayyubids (Saladin’s dynasty), who were Kurds from Iraq.

    Source, Thomas Thompson History of Arabia
    http://www.amazon.ca/gp/search?index=books&linkCode=qs&keywords=0567083608

    In many cases the occupied tribes or nations embraced the occupation like the Hebrews under Seleucid rule that traded with them with mutual benefits, mingled and intermarried making babies and converting to Hellenism or ‘sprinkle’ their Judaism with Hellenism, creating Hellenistic Judaism that combined Jewish religious tradition with elements of Greek culture. Under Seleucid rule it got to the point that Maccabees had to implement forced circumcision in overrun territories to reclaim their ‘jews’ that deserted to Hellenism. Needles to mention the Greeks created market for their products in Mediterranean Basin making them much better off financially and unhampered personally than under Judaism. The invaders/occupants weren’t stupid the knew that native farmer knows the climate and conditions, what to plant and what grows, the fisherman knows where and what to fish for, the craftsmen knows what’s needed by the local market, there’s no time and no need to learn on the job. Someone have to support invaders.

    In ‘The Mythic Past: Biblical Archaeology And The Myth Of Israel’ Thompson insists that former Hebrews are the Palestinians today they converted to Islam to avoid taxes to feed their kids some to Christianity during Crusades conquest. Those faded faces you see there today are a squatters and sooner or later are going to leave.

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    • Replies: @Alden
    A lot of Palestinians stayed Christian after the Muslim conquest. Even during the worst of times, they got a lot of support from the papacy and the Orthodox Church. The pilgrimage trade provided enough money to both pay the infidel taxes and live comfortably.

    DNA studies of the Palestinians show that they are descended from the ancient canaanites. They have a lot more right to Palestine than 1880s Russians.
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  151. Alden says:
    @Anonymous
    You state:

    Al-Quds ["the Holy One"], ... refer[s] to the city [of Jerusalem]

    Makkah used to be Bakkah and Madinah (which literally means “The City”) used to be known as Yathrib. We already have honorific names for them; Makkah al-Mukarramah (Makkah the Enobled) and Madina tul-Munawwara (Madinah the Resplendent).
     

    Precisely my point - Arabs have no NAME for Jerusalem, and instead only use only the by-name "the Holy One." By contrast, as you state, Mecca has and Medina had an actual name ( to which an honorific by-name was added.

    Think of U.S. newspapers referring to "the Sunshine State." "The Sunshine State" is not a name, but a by-name, essentially a nickname. The name is Florida. Jerusalem has no actual name in Arabic.

    The Assyrian, Babylonian, Greek, Roman and Byzantine rulers all kept the name Jerusalem. When the Arab Muslims conquered the area, they kept the name.

    It’s no different from the numerous American cities and towns than kept the American Indian names.

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  152. AaronB says:
    @Tyrion 2
    So a fifth of the world's population has achieved only that...

    I was just pointing out that Jews dont excel Muslims in the charm or culture department.

    Jewish culture has no appeal to to cultured Europeans, while Islam has lots.

    In other ways, Jewish accomplishment is impressive, like with money, and Jewish culture has managed to attract whites who are passionate about money rather than culture.

    Value judgements are subjective. I was just trying to get the facts straight.

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    • Replies: @Tyrion 2

    Jewish culture has no appeal to to cultured Europeans, while Islam has lots.
     
    As I wrote previously and you ignored...

    Is it that the prisons are full of converts to Judaism or is it that the prisons are full of refined and sophisticated Europeans?
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  153. Alden says:

    I read all the early Zionist literature and of course exodus.

    A major theme in all of it going back to 1870 was save our little brown Arab fellow Semite brothers from the eeevvvvviiiillllll Turks.

    After 1922 it was all save our little brown brother fellow Arab semites from the eeeevvvvviiiiilllll English. They even tried some rapprochement with the Irish who were getting rid of the English in the 1920s

    The overriding theme of all the early Zionist propaganda was that the Christian Europeans are mean to us because they say we killed Jesus.
    They will Always hate us. So let’s go south back to the home we haven’t ruled in 2,900 years. Our little brown brothers will welcome us as saviors from the English colonists.

    Those Russians created a myth that the Muslim Palestinians would welcome them. They didn’t seem aware that Palestine was very Christian at the time. They just created a myth.
    But as soon as they arrived they set up all sorts of spy operations against the Turks. There was no war going on, but they spied on the Turks to prepare for any war that came along.

    So when WW1 came along they had maps and all sorts of information they gave to the British. Nice payment to the Turks who allowed them to set up their colony.

    And as soon as the British took over they started spying on the British. And of course from 1922 on they villified the British as evil anti semites who refused to turn the entire country over to them. They of course still claimed that the Arabs still really loved the Jews but the evil British kept stirring the Arabs against the Zionist.

    The whole thing was a huge fiction. Unfortunately with the help of the British, then Stalin and now we stupid stupid Americans the zionists made their dream come true.

    What with affirmative action and media and academic anti White propaganda the Jews will soon do to White Americans what they did to Russians 1918 to 1940 and what they are now doing to the Palestinians

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    • Replies: @snag
    "Nice payment to the Turks who allowed them to set up their colony".

    Spying, snitching and backstabbing it's their (™), ask Poles or any nation in Europe after Bolshevik Revolution that happen to be their creation and their evil responsible for annihilation at least. 130-150 million souls if you count Chinese victims. Mao Tse Tung wouldn't be Mao Tse Tung if it wasn't for his Jewish goons called 'advisors'. The 'Great Leap Forward' and 'Cultural Revolution' in China was conceived and executed by Mao's 'advisers' like comrade Sidney Rittenberg, the architect and founding father in charge of implementation of that evil plan responsible for at least 45 million starved to death Chinese peasants during collectivization, assisted by Sidney Shapiro, a member of the CPPCC National Committee for six terms, Israel Epstein, Solomon Adler, Martin Sorrell, Rewi Alley, Adolf Abramovitch Joffe to name few on the top of the influence ladder. In fact, a comprehensive analysis by Professor R.J. Rummel (professor emeritus of political science at the University of Hawaii) in his book 'China's Bloody Century: Genocide and Mass Murder Since 1900' concluded that both those events, the Great Leap Forward and Cultural Revolution are responsible for at least for 76 million deaths of starvation and related diseases? Nobody is talking about, why? Maybe because of the perpetrator's ethnic background ,...

    Couple years ago Rittenberg was promoting his book about his life in China and Mao on C-span and no one asked him a question what he was really doing there.

    https://wideawakegentile.wordpress.com/2013/12/18/jews-in-china-mao-era/

    The only way to fight them is to take the media from them and return to people without media in their hands they're nothing.

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  154. Seraphim says:
    @renfro
    P.S.

    The Jews have always hated Christians . So much for the myth of the poor innocent Jews persecuted for no reason.


    c.930: Patriarch Eutychius of Alexandria, Eutychii Annales:

    CHAPTER II: ADVERSITIES OF THE CHURCH.: 1 Persecutions of the Christians.: …The Christians suffered less in this than in the preceding centuries. …In the East especially in Syria and Palestine the Jews sometimes rose upon the Christians with great violence (Eutyrhius, Annales ii., p. 236, Jo. Henr. Hottinger, Historia Orientalis, lib. p. 129, ) ....yet so unsuccessfully as to suffer severely for their temerity. (Mosheim 1847, p. 426, at Google Books)


    James Parkes described the slaughter of Christians by Jews in his book, A History of Palestine from 135 AD to Modern Times :

    "60,000 Christians were murdered by Jews at the Mamilla Pool in Palestine. A precise number is of course hard to say but Israeli archaeologist Ronny Reich puts the tally at 60,000 before the Persian military stopped the carnage.

    One eyewitness, Strategius of St. Sabas, wrote: "Jews ransomed the Christians from the hands of the Persian soldiers for good money, and slaughtered them with great joy at Mamilla Pool, and it ran with blood."

    The trouble is that Muslims always hated the Christians also. In that respect they are like the Jews. That’s why they got along so well for a long time, allied in the common exploitation of the Christian populations.

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  155. annamaria says:
    @Tyrion 2
    No idea who you are babbling to. Better get back on your delusional hobby horse and ride off to talk to someone who is interested.

    You did not recognize your own words? — “Having gays parading around the streets is distasteful. Throwing them off buildings as your lot are wont to do is horrific.”
    Then I need to repost my text: “Iran is very-very bad, but when Israel has been killing children in Gaza Ghetto – oh, that’s Ok because Israelis are the giants of morality from your point of view.
    Don’t you like the Jewish Museum of Tolerance built, despite the vigorous protests from decent people, on the ancient Palestinian cemetery? How about the massive theft of Palestinian land? The Israel’s support for Daesh/ISIS because the Golan Heights?
    Considering the Kagans’ clan well-documented warmongering — and even an active and profitable collaboration of its member with the neo-Nazi in Ukraine — Jews should be rather more careful when judging other people. https://consortiumnews.com/2015/03/20/a-family-business-of-perpetual-war/
    The following links are about the rise of anti-semitism in Ukraine AFTER the victorious Revolution of Indecency, which was “arranged” by Nuland-Kagan and the CIA in cooperation with local neo-Nazis in 2014. So much for the memory of victims of the WWII, Tyrion 2?

    https://dninews.com/article/israel-notes-growth-anti-semitism-ukraine

    https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-more-anti-semitic-than-russia/25384493.html

    https://charlenecleoeiben54123.wordpress.com/2014/03/15/washington-fuels-rise-of-neo-nazism-and-anti-semitism-in-ukraine-the-role-of-john-mccain/

    Instead of hunting the senescent former Nazi guards, better take a look at the current supporters and collaborators with neo-Nazi both in Canada and the US. You cannot screech about Holocaust and, at the same time, see no evil in Nuland-Kagan’s endeavors in Kiev, as well as in Ledeen’s involvement in yellow cake forgery and Wolfowitz’, Kristol’, Krauthummer’ and such fanatical support for the supreme crimes of the wars of aggression in the Middle East. And don’t forget your own kapos.”
    – What was unclear in the above text for you? The neo-Nazi connections of the Kagans or the subhuman war-mongering of Israel-firsters in the US and UK?

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    • Agree: jacques sheete
    • LOL: Tyrion 2
    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
    Obviously I meant "troll". Stick your post is funny. And sad. Next time you begin to think that you may be quite crazy, go with that thought! Things could be better for you.
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  156. annamaria says:
    @Talha

    Where’s the high Muslim achievement?
     
    Define high achievement.

    Jews lived in all of those lands before Islam existed.
     
    This is true and not true. They did, but not in those numbers. So you completely want to ignore the fact that thousands of Jews moved into Muslim lands and did fairly well there? There were no Jews that were taken into Abbasid or Mamluk or Ottoman territory after being expelled from other lands? Really?

    It is disingenous to argue that Islamic extremism has nothing to do with Islam.
     
    Of course it has to do with Islam - we have extremists. What, you don't have Jewish extremists? Really?

    human advancement
     
    Define advancement.

    Also interesting that your statement begs the question of what advances were those Muslim Abbasids responsible for?
     
    So you are completely unfamiliar with men like Khwarezmi, Biruni, Ibn al-Haytham, Ibn Rushd, etc.?We're cool with that. What's interesting is that under the mural of Civilizations at the Library of Congress; Islam is listed as the civilization that contributed "Physics":
    https://simergphotoblog.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/loc-evolution-of-civilization.jpg

    Oh, and...
    "Herman, the first Rabin-Shvidler Joint Post-Doctoral Fellow in Jewish Studies, delivered his talk, “Legal Theory and Revelation: Jewish Law in an Islamic Milieu,” at the Lincoln Center campus...
    He explored the competing philosophies of two of the most influential Jewish jurists and philosophers of the Middle Ages, Seʿadya ben Joseph Gaon and Moses Maimonides...Both, however, would have been heavily influenced by Muhammad ibn Idrīs al-Shāfiʿī, a Palestinian-Arab Muslim theologian, writer, and scholar, who lived from 767 to 820 A.D. Shāfiʿī insisted that only revealed text, such as the Koran or certain oral traditions, constituted acceptable legal sources.
    'By putting Seʿadya and Maimonides in dialogue with Islamic legal thought, we can better understand their theories on their own terms, why their assertions were compelling to them and their immediate readers, and why later readers often struggled with their ideas,' Herman said."
    https://news.fordham.edu/politics-and-society/scholar-details-jewish-jurisprudence-influenced-islam/

    I'm not even posting anything about how Hebrew was influenced by Arabic, you can do your own research on that one.

    Do you know how many constellations and stars still have Arabic names?


    This has taken place over a thousand years, and the finish line has been crossed by countless generations.
     
    Oh, so you are unfamiliar with it.

    Thank you for the beautiful post.

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    • Replies: @Talha
    Most welcome and thank you for the many interesting links you are constantly providing.

    Peace.
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  157. snag says:
    @Alden
    Isn’t Jacob’s grave actually a medieval septic tank? There’s a magazine Biblical archeology that claims every rock in Palestine is proof of the OT. It’s put out by evangelicals.

    I enjoy the magazine but it’s just a crock.

    Until they provide some proof its a fairy tale, nothing but stolen or plagiarized myths of other cultures and civilization.

    Oops! It looks like our Creator found the Egyptians around 1200-1400 years earlier than Abraham if you believe that he existed.

    http://www.tabletmag.com/scroll/176348/bas-relief-depicts-circumcision-in-ancient-egypt

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  158. fellas, please show some respect when talking to a lady.
    the mob cries, give us Barabas!
    but we cry, let Your Kingdom come.

    Read More
    • Replies: @jacques sheete

    fellas, please show some respect when talking to a lady.

     

    Even if the "lady" is an ignorant, intolerant, bigot?
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  159. Alden says:
    @renfro
    Pardon me dear Ilana, but would you kindly blow your smoke up your own ass and not ours.

    Anyone want the real non biblical history of Jerusalem ?...the one agreed on by all creditable historians. Then follow the time line of Arabia in Thompson's book below. It is the factual historical account acknowledged by all historians world wide. None of these dates or events or groups are disputed by any serious historian.....except of course by the Jewish myth makers.

    # Jerusalem was not founded by Jews, i.e. adherents of the Jewish religion. It was founded between 3000 BCE and 2600 BCE by a West Semitic people or possibly the Canaanites, the common ancestors of Palestinians, Lebanese, many Syrians and Jordanians, and many Jews. But when it was founded Jews did not exist.

    # Jerusalem was founded in honor of the ancient god Shalem. It does not mean City of Peace but rather ‘built-up place of Shalem.”

    # The “Jewish people” were not building Jerusalem 3000 years ago, i.e. 1000 BCE. First of all, it is not clear when exactly Judaism as a religion centered on the worship of the one God took firm form. It appears to have been a late development since no evidence of worship of anything but ordinary Canaanite deities has been found in archeological sites through 1000 BCE. There was no invasion of geographical Palestine from Egypt by former slaves in the 1200s BCE. The pyramids had been built much earlier and had not used slave labor. The chronicle of the events of the reign of Ramses II on the wall in Luxor does not know about any major slave revolts or flights by same into the Sinai peninsula. Egyptian sources never heard of Moses or the 10 plagues & etc. Jews and Judaism emerged from a certain social class of Canaanites over a period of centuries inside Palestine.

    # Jerusalem not only was not being built by the likely then non-existent “Jewish people” in 1000 BCE, but Jerusalem probably was not even inhabited at that point in history. Jerusalem appears to have been abandoned between 1000 BCE and 900 BCE, the traditional dates for the united kingdom under David and Solomon. So Jerusalem was not ‘the city of David,’ since there was no city when he is said to have lived. No sign of magnificent palaces or great states has been found in the archeology of this period, and the Assyrian tablets, which recorded even minor events throughout the Middle East, such as the actions of Arab queens, don’t know about any great kingdom of David and Solomon in geographical Palestine.

    # Since archeology does not show the existence of a Jewish kingdom or kingdoms in the so-called First Temple Period, it is not clear when exactly the Jewish people would have ruled Jerusalem except for the Hasmonean Kingdom.
    The Assyrians conquered Jerusalem in 722.
    The Babylonians took it in 597 and ruled it until they were themselves conquered in 539 BCE by the Achaemenids of ancient Iran, who ruled Jerusalem until Alexander the Great took the Levant in the 330s BCE.
    Alexander’s descendants, the Ptolemies ruled Jerusalem until 198 when Alexander’s other descendants, the Seleucids, took the city.
    With the Maccabean Revolt in 168 BCE, the Jewish Hasmonean kingdom did rule Jerusalem until 37 BCE, though Antigonus II Mattathias, the last Hasmonean, only took over Jerusalem with the help of the Parthian dynasty in 40 BCE.
    Herod ruled 37 BCE until the Romans conquered what they called Palestine in 6 CE (CE= ‘Common Era’ or what Christians call AD).
    The Romans and then the Eastern Roman Empire of Byzantium ruled Jerusalem from 6 CE until 614 CE when the Iranian Sasanian Empire Conquered it, ruling until 629 CE when the Byzantines took it back.

    #The Muslims conquered Jerusalem in 638 and ruled it until 1099 when the Crusaders conquered it.
    The Crusaders killed or expelled Jews and Muslims from the city.
    The Muslims under Saladin took it back in 1187 CE and allowed Jews to return, and Muslims ruled it until the end of World War I, or altogether for about 1192 years.

    #Adherents of Judaism did not found Jerusalem. It existed for perhaps 2700 years before anything we might recognize as Judaism arose. Jewish rule may have been no longer than 170 years or so, i.e., the kingdom of the Hasmoneans.

    # Therefore if historical building of Jerusalem and historical connection with Jerusalem establishes sovereignty over it as Netanyahu claims, here are the groups that have the greatest claim to the city:

    A. The Muslims, who ruled it and built it over 1191 years.

    B. The Egyptians, who ruled it as a vassal state for several hundred years in the second millennium BCE.

    C. The Italians, who ruled it about 444 years until the fall of the Roman Empire in 450 CE.

    D. The Iranians, who ruled it for 205 years under the Achaemenids, for three years under the Parthians (insofar as the last Hasmonean was actually their vassal), and for 15 years under the Sasanids.

    E. The Greeks, who ruled it for over 160 years if we count the Ptolemys and Seleucids as Greek. If we count them as Egyptians and Syrians, that would increase the Egyptian claim and introduce a Syrian one.

    F. The successor states to the Byzantines, which could be either Greece or Turkey, who ruled it 188 years, though if we consider the heir to be Greece and add in the time the Hellenistic Greek dynasties ruled it, that would give Greece nearly 350 years as ruler of Jerusalem.

    G. There is an Iraqi claim to Jerusalem based on the Assyrian and Babylonian conquests, as well as perhaps the rule of the Ayyubids (Saladin’s dynasty), who were Kurds from Iraq.

    Source, Thomas Thompson History of Arabia
    http://www.amazon.ca/gp/search?index=books&linkCode=qs&keywords=0567083608

    Didn’t the Assyrians conquer Jerusalem in 870 BC? Or was that some other country?

    The wailing wall or what’s now called the remnant Temple wall was never part of a building. It’s part of a retaining wall built by Herod who was hated by the Jews because he was partly Arab.

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  160. Alden says:
    @Twodees Partain
    In case some here haven't read this article:

    https://biblicisminstitute.wordpress.com/2014/09/10/a-brief-history-of-the-kingdoms-of-israel-and-judah/

    The tales of Boewulf, King Arthur, Siegfried and Singlied are about as truthful as David and the Jewish myths.

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  161. Alden says:
    @snag
    In many cases the occupied tribes or nations embraced the occupation like the Hebrews under Seleucid rule that traded with them with mutual benefits, mingled and intermarried making babies and converting to Hellenism or 'sprinkle' their Judaism with Hellenism, creating Hellenistic Judaism that combined Jewish religious tradition with elements of Greek culture. Under Seleucid rule it got to the point that Maccabees had to implement forced circumcision in overrun territories to reclaim their 'jews' that deserted to Hellenism. Needles to mention the Greeks created market for their products in Mediterranean Basin making them much better off financially and unhampered personally than under Judaism. The invaders/occupants weren't stupid the knew that native farmer knows the climate and conditions, what to plant and what grows, the fisherman knows where and what to fish for, the craftsmen knows what's needed by the local market, there's no time and no need to learn on the job. Someone have to support invaders.

    In 'The Mythic Past: Biblical Archaeology And The Myth Of Israel' Thompson insists that former Hebrews are the Palestinians today they converted to Islam to avoid taxes to feed their kids some to Christianity during Crusades conquest. Those faded faces you see there today are a squatters and sooner or later are going to leave.

    A lot of Palestinians stayed Christian after the Muslim conquest. Even during the worst of times, they got a lot of support from the papacy and the Orthodox Church. The pilgrimage trade provided enough money to both pay the infidel taxes and live comfortably.

    DNA studies of the Palestinians show that they are descended from the ancient canaanites. They have a lot more right to Palestine than 1880s Russians.

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  162. I used to give the Israelis the benefit of the doubt about the Palestinians being the aggressors.
    But after what I’ve seen here in America, with them basically controlling our Govt. via AIPAC and other lobbies, the Federal Reserve, complete control of the MSM with all their lies, CIA, NSA, Soviet police state creep, well, its kind of hard not to put it all together…
    I now side with the Palestinians, if they’re doing all this crap to us here in America, I can only imagine how they treat the Palestinians…….
    and they’re gettin worse every day.
    Not good Israel, not good….

    Read More
    • Agree: Johnny Smoggins
    • Replies: @Johnny Smoggins
    I now side with the Palestinians, if they’re doing all this crap to us here in America, I can only imagine how they treat the Palestinians

    Same here. I've completely gone over to the Palestinian side because everything I've learned about Jews and Israel has filled me with such disgust.

    I can hardly even bring myself to call it "Israel" anymore. Instead I mostly refer to that land as Palestine or Occupied Palestine. With that being said, I still want all Jews to go there and stay there forever.

    , @bookish1
    There is somewhat of a contradiction in your thinking about understanding the Palestinian point of view now that you see what the jews are doing in the America. So if you understand what jews are doing(and have done) in America why would you want jews to emigrate from Israel to America? That is what will happen if Israel goes under and becomes Palestine. If you understand what jews have done to America then you want jews to emgirate from America to Israel to free us from jewish troublemaking. Correct?
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  163. AaronB says:
    @Talha
    Let’s not forget Thoreau and Emerson (I love his poetry) who were also appreciative of the Persian mystics and their poetry.

    Also, Goethe wrote a poem in praise of the Prophet (pbuh):

    Come ye all, then!
    Now, more proudly,
    On he swells; a countless race, they
    Bear their glorious prince aloft!
    On he rolls triumphantly, 55
    Giving names to countries. Cities
    Spring to being ’neath his foot.

    Onward, with incessant roaring,
    See! he passes proudly by
    Flaming turrets, marble mansions, 60
    Creatures of his fulness all.

    Cedar houses bears this Atlas
    On his giant shoulders. Rustling,
    Flapping in the playful breezes,
    Thousand flags about his head are 65
    Telling of his majesty.

    And so bears he all his brothers,
    And his treasures, and his children,
    To their Sire, all joyous roaring,
    Pressing to his mighty heart.

    http://www.bartleby.com/270/11/203.html

    Peace.

    Excellent additions to the list talha!

    Especially Goethe was deeply attracted to Persian poetry, etc.

    Over on Anatoly Karlin’s thread on Jews Bardon Karolian gives a really impressive list of cultured Europeans who despise Judaism as vulgar and crass.

    So it seems cultured European opinion really reacted to Judaism and Islam in completely opposite ways, and it was more than just a failure to find Judaism appealing.

    I feel almost bad bullying our poor Trion here – Tyrion, we don’t hate Jews as people! And we hold out hope you can redeem your vulgar culture and forget about money and learn to find joy in poetry and imagination and spirituality.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Frankie P
    I think Tyrion and his ilk will continue to cultivate close relations with the likes of Reverend Hagee, CUFI, and the Evangelical Christians, a group not particularly well suited to the enjoyment of fine poetry, architecture, or even spirituality for that matter. This easily deceived group is so focused on radical interpretation of Revelations and their desire to bring about end times, they fail to see the detrimental effects of their blind support for Israel on the nation they claim to love.

    A pox upon them and their Zionist masters.

    , @Talha
    Hey AaronB,

    Yes, he even wrote his own Diwan - pretty amazing!

    I feel almost bad bullying our poor Trion here – Tyrion, we don’t hate Jews as people!
     
    Yeah - I don't hate Jews - the vast majority of my interactions with them have been friendly and cordial and I've never had a bad interaction with any co-workers, etc.

    My daughter had a recent bad interaction at her high school. She does props and stage management for theater at her school so she volunteered to help this religious Jewish group that was putting on an all-girls play. Since they were strict about male-female interaction (something our community also adheres to), they wanted only female volunteers. My daughter was very upset at the end of the day; she basically described her experience as "being yelled at all day by a bunch of Jewish ladies" - none of them thanked her for the hours of time she volunteered to help make the play a success. Funny thing is that one of her friends (who is Jewish) also volunteered to help and this girl was so pissed off at the behavior of these women. I simply told her; look, just like some Muslims do stupid stuff, they've got idiots in their own community too.

    But I have noticed something about plenty of Zionists on these forums, they are relentless about insulting others or speaking in condescending tones. Maybe it makes them feel better about themselves. Though I don't consider Greasy William in this category. He is brutally honest, which I enjoy, but he will at least acknowledge Israeli or Jewish deficiencies and give credit to others where it's due (though sometimes he needs correction).

    Peace.
    , @Tyrion 2

    So it seems cultured European opinion really reacted to Judaism and Islam in completely opposite ways, and it was more than just a failure to find Judaism appealing.
     
    Looking at the very few European converts to Islam that don't do it in prison, it seems that a large percentage are closeted homosexuals who historically took to Islam to have free reign of the numerous boy markets that Muslim countries have traditionally kept.

    Naturally, those closeted individuals are occasionally also interesting people, but, for the most part, they merely seem to have idenfitied a certain homoeroticism in Sunni Muslim culture and decided they wanted in on it.

    The whole widely admitted and long-established phenomena is quite confusing. I suppose it relates to the Jungian idea of The Shadow. I don't really care enough to investigate though, even while recognising that this archetype is clearly hugely active in this comment thread. Mostly because I imagine that these thoughts will mostly just go whoosh over their heads.

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  164. Alden says:
    @Talha

    Where’s the high Muslim achievement?
     
    Define high achievement.

    Jews lived in all of those lands before Islam existed.
     
    This is true and not true. They did, but not in those numbers. So you completely want to ignore the fact that thousands of Jews moved into Muslim lands and did fairly well there? There were no Jews that were taken into Abbasid or Mamluk or Ottoman territory after being expelled from other lands? Really?

    It is disingenous to argue that Islamic extremism has nothing to do with Islam.
     
    Of course it has to do with Islam - we have extremists. What, you don't have Jewish extremists? Really?

    human advancement
     
    Define advancement.

    Also interesting that your statement begs the question of what advances were those Muslim Abbasids responsible for?
     
    So you are completely unfamiliar with men like Khwarezmi, Biruni, Ibn al-Haytham, Ibn Rushd, etc.?We're cool with that. What's interesting is that under the mural of Civilizations at the Library of Congress; Islam is listed as the civilization that contributed "Physics":
    https://simergphotoblog.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/loc-evolution-of-civilization.jpg

    Oh, and...
    "Herman, the first Rabin-Shvidler Joint Post-Doctoral Fellow in Jewish Studies, delivered his talk, “Legal Theory and Revelation: Jewish Law in an Islamic Milieu,” at the Lincoln Center campus...
    He explored the competing philosophies of two of the most influential Jewish jurists and philosophers of the Middle Ages, Seʿadya ben Joseph Gaon and Moses Maimonides...Both, however, would have been heavily influenced by Muhammad ibn Idrīs al-Shāfiʿī, a Palestinian-Arab Muslim theologian, writer, and scholar, who lived from 767 to 820 A.D. Shāfiʿī insisted that only revealed text, such as the Koran or certain oral traditions, constituted acceptable legal sources.
    'By putting Seʿadya and Maimonides in dialogue with Islamic legal thought, we can better understand their theories on their own terms, why their assertions were compelling to them and their immediate readers, and why later readers often struggled with their ideas,' Herman said."
    https://news.fordham.edu/politics-and-society/scholar-details-jewish-jurisprudence-influenced-islam/

    I'm not even posting anything about how Hebrew was influenced by Arabic, you can do your own research on that one.

    Do you know how many constellations and stars still have Arabic names?


    This has taken place over a thousand years, and the finish line has been crossed by countless generations.
     
    Oh, so you are unfamiliar with it.

    I don’t think it matters if Muslim culture over the centuries is great, terrible or mediocre.

    What matters is that using first the Turks, then the British, Stalin for a few years and now the United States the Zionists stole an entire country from its rightful owners.

    Personally I don’t think Israel will last more than 200 more years. About 20 percent of the Jewish population of Israelis live in the Inited States because they can make a better living here. The Mizrahi totally hate the European Jews.

    Most of the Israelis hate conscription and don’t want to fight any more. That’s always been the job of the goyim.

    Betnahuyu was talking about taking over Ukraine as a refuge recently.

    Being nationalistic and productive, Israel just isn’t Jewish. They are a global people constantly in the move from one country to another. They are not really producers, they are dependent on the producers.

    Of course my theory doesn’t help the Palestinians who are suffering now.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey Alden,

    Yeah - for some odd reason, Zionists often like to divert the discussion. Sometimes I ignore, sometimes I play along to expose the lack of knowledge and just bad character some of these guys have. They are not happy people. People who have a confidence in themselves and have contentment and don't envy others have no problem with other people' achievements and don't need to denigrate others to feel better. The Muslim world had a fairly long run at science, medicine, etc. and being militarily powerful - it was probably top dog for about a 400-500 year range - not bad, not bad.

    Western Europe is a little late to the big-time civilization party, but hey, they've done fairly well on these fronts for the last few centuries - good for them. We've all certainly benefited; I plan to make Hajj on a plane when I take my wife.

    As far as Jerusalem and Israel too; I agree with your assessment that it won't last too long. It's not that Jews haven't lived in the area or anything, they were all over the Middle East. Nobody in the pre-modern era minded that the population of Baghdad was 1/3 Jewish.

    Israel seems to me like some dream conjured up by a bunch of secular ethno-nationalists that weren't even native to the place. Its a European thing (tied up in the whole notion of the ethno-nation-state), like you mentioned, the Mizrahis would never have come up with the scheme. It's like communism or something; completely idealistic, bereft of a historical understanding (or even knowledge), with no vision of the long term future. And on top of it pissing off everyone in the area and making friends with the most hated elements of the Middle East like the Saudis. It's seems so stupid to me that they ruined a relatively reasonable relationship the Jewish population had with the rest of the Middle East (for centuries may I add, the Jewish community of Baghdad was over 2000 years old) over this bunker-mentality pipe dream for muh nation-state.

    Of course my theory doesn’t help the Palestinians who are suffering now.
     
    No, but the right time will come...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkwxMYiyd_M

    Peace.
    , @Tyrion 2
    I dont think you know anything about Israel. Let me straighten out your basic factual errors.

    . About 20 percent of the Jewish population of Israelis live in the United States because they can make a better living here.
     
    Statistically this is not true. Furthermore, of that substantially less than 20 percent, a big proportion are students and an even bigger proportion are American citizens with dual nationality, much with their roots in America not Israel. Your statement is simply born of the crazies on this site echoing nonsense back and forth to each other. It is embarassing.

    The Mizrahi totally hate the European Jews.
     
    Considering that all of the Israelis I met, who were alnost all under 35, had at least one Mizrahi grandparent and at least one Ashkenazi, this is demonstrably false.

    Most of the Israelis hate conscription and don’t want to fight any more.
     
    I wouldn't confuse the desire for peace for decadence. Western Europe has become decadent and projecting our own worst feelings onto Israel has become a habit. Indeed projecting our own worst feelings in general has become a habit.

    Betnahuyu was talking about taking over Ukraine as a refuge recently.

    Being nationalistic and productive, Israel just isn’t Jewish. They are a global people constantly in the move from one country to another. They are not really producers, they are dependent on the producers
     
    Israel isn't Jewish because it doesn't fit your anti-Semitic stereotype and Israel is looking to relocate to Ukraine? If you're doing parody of an internet loon you are hamming it up far too much!
    , @Sam J.
    "...Betnahuyu was talking about taking over Ukraine as a refuge recently..."

    I thought from the very beginning when the Jews took over Ukraine that it was for a "plan B" back up.
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  165. Alden says:
    @sarz
    Since unz is a free speech site, it's only fitting that Judaic loonies be given space here as well, at least once in a while, if only to let readers have a chance to respond, that the Judaic media would never allow.

    Suppose you got a few million people in India convinced that G_d had made an announcement that Manhattan was their gift from him. And once in a while over many years the topic came up in casual conversation. What would it take for the Judaic author to concede their right to take the whole place over, expelling the natives except for a few pushed onto Governor's Island, where they were penned without access to much anything including water, and bombed every few years to "mow the grass"?

    What if it turned out they were confusing Manhattan with some other place?

    See Kamal Salibi's book, The Bible Came from Arabia. There is one copy at Amazon. Or see this 1984 review of his book, at https://csmonitor.com/1984/0831/083139.html.

    Or, see this by Ashraf Ezzat: https://ashraf62.wordpress.com/2017/12/08/mr-trump-jerusalem-is-not-the-capital-of-biblical-israel/

    Turns out the original Jerusalem is not in Palestine. It's in Yemen. The whole lot of trouble-making Jews were brought from there, with its main village Ur-Salem, to Babylon. It's called the Babylonian captivity and it lasted almost a hundred years. They then headed back home, except their IQs must have been much lower back then. They landed up many hundred miles from home, in Palestine.

    The second temple was built there. The silly putzlette quotes “If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, let my right hand forget her cunning.” Okay, then, so be it with her hand. And those of fellow Judaics of the last two and a half thousand years. Amen!

    And even in al Quds, the Judaics are pretending that the walls of the old Roman fort, all that was left of so-called Jerusalem by the time the Romans were done with it, and as Jesus had foretold, not one stone left on another, they are pretending that this is the remains of their second temple. It's not a matter of forgetting this time. Everyone whom one would expect to be well-informed knows very well that the temple was located about a mile away, near a stream. But pretending it's the fort gives more scope for Judaic mischief.

    In any case, most of the 'Israelis' are Turks from Ashkenaz, and not at all the descendants of Abraham. You're not allowed to bring that up, of course. It's antisemitic. To say Ashkenazis are not really semites. Go figure.

    These people are a real nuisance. I think Trump is pretending to be on their side while he gets America's act together. They should be sent back to Poland. Or to a place they are actually entitled to, Birobidzhan.

    It’s actually a retaining wall built to stabilize the hill the fort was on.

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  166. AaronB says:
    @jacques sheete

    But no point complaining that to prosper among humans you can’t be too moral. When whites were great, they were evil. Now Jews are evil, and are on top. To beat them, go back to being evil.
     
    I'm not complaining, I'm mostly mocking in the style of the real whiners, whom you correctly describe as currently being "on top" and therefore most evil. (Isn't it funny how the "chosen" are always whining about being the eternal victims and bawling about deserving special treatment?)

    You are so correct when you say that you must resort to evil to be on top, and it doesn't matter who's on top. Evil obviously gets them a boost, and that's why I loathe all who think they deserve to be on top or at least those who think they are entitled to rule over me.

    Goy, jew, it doesn't matter to me; all "authorities" can go suck eggs or worse. Meanwhile, the whiners like Mercer and her ignorant ilk have earned my contempt, and Like Mennipus, I'll be laughing and jeering at them and calling them out.

    Sounds like you’ve a touch of the anarchyst in you, as do I :)

    The last great age of humanity was the egalitarian hunter-gatherer period – it’s been downhill ever since.

    As for our current times, I just like to make our choices as starkly clear as possible to everyone – to contend for top dog position, whites have to become more evil. No use shirking this fact and dreaming of an “ethical” fight. That doesn’t mean it wouldn’t have to be presented as an ethical fight. That would be a necessary part of it.

    Being ethical means surrendering top dog position. Honesty about this is crucial.

    Once the choices are laid out, we must make our choices.

    For me, it’s the merry woods and the mountain caves and the deserts, and the arts of subterfuge and evasion among men.

    Read More
    • Replies: @jacques sheete

    Being ethical means surrendering top dog position. Honesty about this is crucial.
     
    Being ethical means surrendering top dog mentation as well.

    Only a few will ever be honest about it and I don't believe that group honesty exists. It may not even be possible, but what do I know?
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  167. Ron says:

    This article is total BS- i would not know where to start
    in contradicting such drivel – I read UNZ in an attempt to avoid such irrational chosen-people fantasy- perhaps it makes this wonderful site appear to be more evenhanded in allowing such contrived and bizarre logic to be published occasionally.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Truth
    LOL, hey Ron I'm glad you feel that way. I agree with you. Only you can change it though, it is your site.
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  168. Alden says:
    @Zumbuddi
    Excellent work, thanks, especially for identification of Thompson's [email protected]#t grinder.
    I spent the last 4 days trying to synchro use the timeline of of the 2 + 10 tribes of the habiru --- which means "nomad" or "thieves" depending on the evidence base of the author: archeologists report the earliest artifact bearing the word links it to "thieves."

    In my search I consulted only Jewish scholars, four of them They can't even agree on a basic timeline.

    Second only to the lie of the holohoax is the lie that Hebrew scriptures represent spirituality or ethics or morality, or a unique and core contribution to Western Civilization. The world would be a better place if Abraham's mother had had an abortion & Ezra never learned to write.

    I noticed Abraham the original dead beat Dad who kicked his sex slave Hagar and his toddler son Ishmael out to die of thirst and dehydration in the desert when I was about 7. Maybe it was because I loved my baby sister so much at the time and identified Ishmael with her. My thought was who could kick a cute loveable toddler out to die in the desert? Then the crazy evil old coot wanted to kill his Jewish son.

    There are not suitable for children warnings on movies and Tv shows. It should be on the entire OT; X rated

    Are there any parts of the OT where people are just average decent? Or is it just slay rape and slay again?

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  169. Alden says:
    @AnalogMan
    To hell with them all. I, for one, will never forget the part played by the Jews, including Ilana's father, the Rabbi, in destroying my homeland, South Africa. There is a reckoning coming, and I hope I live to see it. You people always push, push, push, until it blows up in your faces.

    I know you won't publish this, and that's OK. The message is for you.

    Good for you, right on!!

    The Jews are in the process of doing to American Whites what they did to the S
    African Whites. It might not succeed because the Jews are running around between blacks, Hispanics, the 2 percent of the population that is gay and tranny, Asians and even Arab immigrants to form an anti White coalition. The only anti White groups the Jews managed to form coalitions with gays and blacks. That coalition still holds, but the other grievance groups have their own agenda and have resisted Jewish takeover for decades.

    Never forget never forgive

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  170. Alden says:
    @Jake
    The title of this article proclaims a great truth, and in so doing, it draws attention to the fact that Jews - certainly those who lead and are followed - invariably do the opposite. Jews can be counted on to bite off the nose of friends, at times because of ancient enmity and at other times just to show who's boss. And it always ends up playing out as Jews biting off their own noses to spite their own Jewish faces.

    In short, Jewish liberalism, particularly transforming the various non-white peoples and non-Christian religions into sacred cows that are encouraged at every turn to bash Whitey and demand Christian castrate itself, will eventually lead to a blowback enevloping Jews that could make the period 1933-1945 seem like a pretty good time.

    And that blowback will not be lead by any group of white Gentiles. It will be the various brown and black Moslems, with Asians joining the fun, hoping to secure major spoils. The blowback's main thrust will be about skin pigmentation and wealth controlled by those who have white skins.

    That slaughter will not commence until after both Europe and the US are filled with Moslems, who have been granted special rights and privileges as 'victims' of the West.

    And when it ignites, Jewish power in the European capitals and, especially, America, will be the focuses. Only after that absorbs the 'racist' white nations in a desperate battle to survive, which will require them to be mean to their own delightful Moslem citizens and legal residents, will the several millions of Arabs rush toward Israel in a giant suicide bombing.

    The Sunni militants the Israelis think they are making their friends by helping them try to destroy Iran will be happy to die by the millions to 'free Jerusalem' and exterminate Jews from Palestine.

    Yes, Israel could win by using its illegally acquired nukes, but i winning that way, Israel destroys itself forever.

    Jews are every bit as insanely suicidal as Swedes or Germans or white American Liberals, or Catholic Liberals like Pope Francis and Jesuit priests Antonio Spadaro and James Martin.

    There is a reason why the rich Saudis Kuwaitis etc are subsidizing huge Muslim Arab settlement all around DC. It’s to establish a presence to offset the Jewish occupation of our government.

    They are doing exactly what the Jews did in the 20th century, endless whining and complaining coupled with massive bribery. Hopefully it will work someday.

    Read More
    • Agree: snag
    • Replies: @Stan d Mute

    They are doing exactly what the Jews did in the 20th century, endless whining and complaining coupled with massive bribery. Hopefully it will work someday.
     
    Demographics are Destiny. Pew Research says by 2050 there will be as many Mohammedans as Christians (2.76 Billion vs 2.96 Billion). Jews will then number an insignificant 16 Million. A Mohammedan sneeze (or less likely a Christian fanatical sneeze) would snuff out Judaism like a hurricane would a candle.

    If Jews were remotely as smart as they think they are, they would move their Israel to a less contested piece of dirt. It’s not even a question of “if” but only a question of “when”. Their nation exists today only because of the protection from Uncle Sam and to lesser degree of England. As both become ever more Mohammedan, the clock winds down for Israel. Even today, a handful of fanatics in Pakistan or India and it’s over.

    As a non Jew hater, I hope they come to their senses and stop thinking and behaving in a manner that can only lead to their extinction.
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  171. Ace says:
    @jilles dykstra
    Land purchase by zionists ?
    Officiallly just seven percent of the land called Israel inside the 1967 cease fire lines is jewish property.
    And even this is very questionable.
    Around 1860 the Ottomans wanted land registered, for taxes, and military service.
    The Palestinians boycotted.
    The Ottoman tax farmers in Beirut then registered the land in their own names, and 'sold' to zionist settlers.
    The Palestinian owners were driven out by Ottoman gendarmes and soldiers.
    The Palestinians resisted, and so the first armed conflict between Palestinians and zionists was already in 1880, Petah Tikvah.

    Thanks. Something to keep in mind. Arab Muslims took Christian/pagan lands in the M.E. and N. Africa. Turkish Muslims took it from them and a subset of them cheated resident Arab Muslims in “Palestine” or Palestine. They then sold some of this land to Zionists. I’m not trying to be facile but it does seem that the idea of “claim of right” to land in that area is pretty weak.

    I was referring to later purchases by Jews from individual Arabs. Maybe the latter really were Turks and known to be so by the Zionists but the casual reading I was doing on this issue back when left me with my present belief that it was local Arabs who purported to be owners who sold the land. Jews then made a point never selling any land purchased back to any Arabs, thereby gradually adding to the total of Jewish-owned land.

    Be that as it may, the military and terrorist efforts in 1948 created Israel and the strategy of purchase became moot.

    Read More
    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    The story about the zionist purchases of Palestinian lands is carefully guarded.
    When you ask a jewish historian about it the answer is 'very complicated question, difficult to explain'.

    It took me a long time to find out, I nowhere did find a clear explanation, not even in
    Charles D Smith, ‘Palestine and the Arab-Israeli conflict’, New York, 1992
    in my opinion the best book on the conflict.
    There are later editions.

    What I did not write, in Palestine there was no legal title to land.
    In the Palestinian culture the land belonged to who tilled it.
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  172. Ace says:
    @Tim Timson
    Thank you for this, Ilana. You knew the backlash this piece would get you and you published it nonetheless which is highly admirable. Jerusalem is the eternal capital of the Jewish people, and it would have no historical relevance if not for Jews. The rabid idiots in this comment section think saying anything remotely favorable towards Israel is "Zionist propaganda", yet this site regularly publishes anti-Israel articles. It's refreshing every so often to hear from someone who doesn't have utter contempt for the state of Israel. To the fanatics in the comments, go read Israel Shamir if you're so hungry for an anti-Israel messages. After all, it's what he's devoted his life to.

    When people start talking about “eternal” this or “sacred” that I immediately make sure I have my wallet in an inside pocket.

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  173. Ace says:
    @annamaria
    If not the Sarah-pecked Bibi then the former Moldovan citizen Lieberman, a vicious supremacist that looks like a dweller of Bukhara and talks like a neo-Nazi.
    Currently, the Israeli government stands naked – its magic clothes of supreme morality and eternal victimhood are no more. The availability of information on the Internet was a disaster for Jewish "mythologists." The majority of Jews want to live in countries of western civilization, but their self-gratifying and amoral playing with the toy of Eretz Israel has endangered western civilization and put the bloody Jewish supremacists under a spotlight. Their successful attacks on free speech (see punishments for BDS and for Qs re Holocaust in Europe and the US), and their obnoxious disregard for international law (in the context of a non-stop squealing about special Jewish rights), have created a fertile ground for dislike of the Jewish tribe in general. Nice job. Instead of supporting those countries that gave Jews the real security, the Zionists/ziocons have insulted and irritated these countries’ citizenry with grandiose criminal projects that always feature the victorious Eretz Israel, while bribing and buying politicians in the US Congress and UK Parliament and destroying the honest and principled politicians that do not dance to the Lobby’ tune.

    https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/sara-netanyahu-recorded-losing-temper-i-am-psy-cho-lo-gist-1.5768701
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2018/01/09/netanyahus-son-brags-about-prostitutes-20-billion-deal-for-friends-dad-in-strip-club-rant/?utm_term=.16bd0b26059e

    ** with grandiose criminal projects that always feature the victorious Eretz Israel **

    . . . and the destruction of all Western nations by massive Muslims and African immigration with a thick sauce of soul-sapping, nation-destroying propaganda from virtual Jewish media monopoly.

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  174. snag says:
    @Alden
    I read all the early Zionist literature and of course exodus.

    A major theme in all of it going back to 1870 was save our little brown Arab fellow Semite brothers from the eeevvvvviiiillllll Turks.

    After 1922 it was all save our little brown brother fellow Arab semites from the eeeevvvvviiiiilllll English. They even tried some rapprochement with the Irish who were getting rid of the English in the 1920s

    The overriding theme of all the early Zionist propaganda was that the Christian Europeans are mean to us because they say we killed Jesus.
    They will Always hate us. So let’s go south back to the home we haven’t ruled in 2,900 years. Our little brown brothers will welcome us as saviors from the English colonists.

    Those Russians created a myth that the Muslim Palestinians would welcome them. They didn’t seem aware that Palestine was very Christian at the time. They just created a myth.
    But as soon as they arrived they set up all sorts of spy operations against the Turks. There was no war going on, but they spied on the Turks to prepare for any war that came along.

    So when WW1 came along they had maps and all sorts of information they gave to the British. Nice payment to the Turks who allowed them to set up their colony.

    And as soon as the British took over they started spying on the British. And of course from 1922 on they villified the British as evil anti semites who refused to turn the entire country over to them. They of course still claimed that the Arabs still really loved the Jews but the evil British kept stirring the Arabs against the Zionist.

    The whole thing was a huge fiction. Unfortunately with the help of the British, then Stalin and now we stupid stupid Americans the zionists made their dream come true.

    What with affirmative action and media and academic anti White propaganda the Jews will soon do to White Americans what they did to Russians 1918 to 1940 and what they are now doing to the Palestinians

    “Nice payment to the Turks who allowed them to set up their colony”.

    Spying, snitching and backstabbing it’s their (™), ask Poles or any nation in Europe after Bolshevik Revolution that happen to be their creation and their evil responsible for annihilation at least. 130-150 million souls if you count Chinese victims. Mao Tse Tung wouldn’t be Mao Tse Tung if it wasn’t for his Jewish goons called ‘advisors’. The ‘Great Leap Forward’ and ‘Cultural Revolution’ in China was conceived and executed by Mao’s ‘advisers’ like comrade Sidney Rittenberg, the architect and founding father in charge of implementation of that evil plan responsible for at least 45 million starved to death Chinese peasants during collectivization, assisted by Sidney Shapiro, a member of the CPPCC National Committee for six terms, Israel Epstein, Solomon Adler, Martin Sorrell, Rewi Alley, Adolf Abramovitch Joffe to name few on the top of the influence ladder. In fact, a comprehensive analysis by Professor R.J. Rummel (professor emeritus of political science at the University of Hawaii) in his book ‘China’s Bloody Century: Genocide and Mass Murder Since 1900′ concluded that both those events, the Great Leap Forward and Cultural Revolution are responsible for at least for 76 million deaths of starvation and related diseases? Nobody is talking about, why? Maybe because of the perpetrator’s ethnic background ,…

    Couple years ago Rittenberg was promoting his book about his life in China and Mao on C-span and no one asked him a question what he was really doing there.

    https://wideawakegentile.wordpress.com/2013/12/18/jews-in-china-mao-era/

    The only way to fight them is to take the media from them and return to people without media in their hands they’re nothing.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Alden
    When I was in college and up to about 1980, many of the Jews I knew carried around copies of Mao’s Little Red Book.

    A lot of them helped the likes of Kathy Boudin, Billy Ayers and Bernadette Dorhn when they were on the run after the bombings andmurder of police.

    Do the Chinese know about Mao’s Jewish advisors? The Armenians know that it was Jews in the Turkish government who instigated the Armenian genicide although it was mostly Kurds who did the dirty work.

    Thanks so much for the information.
    , @Z-man
    Yes thanks, interesting stuff.
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  175. Ace says:
    @jconsley
    If anyone comments on U.S. tax dollars to Israel, it is never published. What is controversial about reminding tax payers of where their money is given? Why is the U.S. fighting wars in the Middle East? Israel has already proclaimed it will take miles of Syrian land to expand its non-designated borders!

    Israel needs a buffer zone for its buffer zone.

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  176. King David conquered it 1000 years Before Christ

    Yes, so what? Was King David your Messiah? The living embodiment of your YHWH? You’d do well to remember that 2,000,000,000+ Yeshua true believers are certain their God was born in a manger in Bethlehem, raised in Jerusalem where he preached and held his Last Supper before being arrested and crucified then finally resurrected. 2 Billion plus people are convinced “your” Jerusalem was where their God put their Messiah and your people killed Him.

    Your favorite nation exists today solely at the sufferance of those Yeshuans. Were I a Jew, I’d temper my exuberance a bit, Yeshuan fanatics may seem tamer than Mohammedans, but only because they are infinitely more restrained and more organized. All it takes is one charismatic Yeshuan fanatic to ask, “Why are the Christ killers running the town where they killed Christ?” What happened in WW2 wasn’t religious fanaticism but merely jealous populism against an alien minority, I hope you never see the former.

    Read More
    • Agree: Z-man
    • Replies: @Seraphim
    Christians (not Yeshua 'true believers') know that Jesus was raised in Nazareth.
    , @jilles dykstra
    There is not a shred of archeologic evidence that a king David existed
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  177. Alden says:
    @AaronB
    It's not just that.

    These Arabs live in ancestral villages they have occupied for centuries, why should they leave? The idea that Israeli Arabs should abandon their ancestral home to live under Ppalestinians, and the only thing preventing them is better material conditions - weird, and materialistic. Really, just propaganda.

    As Shamir has shown, and I have seen, life in the West Bank isn't much worse. Believe it or not, Israel doesn't look first world at all, however rich it may be on paper. Aside from squeaky new developements, Israel isn't really better materially than the West Bank.

    It's just propaganda. Don't blame Ilana she's just human, and this is what humans do. No point whining about Jews - become a little more evil yourself, like your white ancestors were, or flee the human scene or live on its margins.

    But no point complaining that to prosper among humans you can't be too moral. When whites were great, they were evil. Now Jews are evil, and are on top. To beat them, go back to being evil.

    Or, if you prefer.....

    I know some Mizrahi Jews who left for California. They hate the European Jews. They claim the European jews treat them as badly as they treat the Palestinians. I don’t know how true that is, but that’s how some Mizrahi feel.

    Read More
    • Replies: @jacques sheete

    Mizrahi Jews who left for California. They hate the European Jews. They claim the European jews treat them as badly as they treat the Palestinians.
     
    I'm no expert on that aspect of the subject, but Uri Avnery confirms something of the sort from time to time.

    I think one of their great "accomplishments" is to have selected themselves quite well for a "hatred" gene to go along with their paranoid, usurious and contempt ones. The people in question obviously can't stand anyone, including themselves, and the Torah provides plenty of evidence as do the writings of Josephus and their actions today.

    The tribe is a sick clique but hey, "muh akkoplishmuntz"!!!!
    , @AaronB
    This is extremely common.

    Its common in Israel for Mizrahi Jews to say Ashkenazi Jews aren't even Jews, and they are the real Jews. But that's a reaction to Ashkenazi condescension.

    Some of my most "antisemitic" conversations abroad have been with Mizrahi Israelis.

    Even Ashkenazi Israelis have a faint contempt for diaspora Jews - however awful and racist Israel is as a state, it selected originally for Jews who were more idealistic and less obsessed with money, who had a great appreciation for nature, and who valued physical adventure. The whole point of Zionisn was to forever cure the ugly features of the diaspora Jew. Many of the original zionists were keenly critical of diaspora Jewry.

    You can find comments by Israelis on the Web describing American Jews as somehow offputting in a very basic way and obsessed with money.

    Until the 90s Israel was an extremely poor and basic kind of place where life revolved around physical adventure, nature, and there was a kind of dusty romance and poetry to life there, even as it was permeated with racism and founded on injustice, and manners were rude and harsh.

    I'm half-Jewish and half Catholic, but I grew up among Jews and lived for five years in Israel in the 80s. When I returned to America still very young I was immediately repelled in an instinctive way by American Jewish life - and in hindsight, I think I must have struck them as very "goyish". Many of my American Jewish friends comment that Israelis seem "goyish" to them and find the country deeply alien - while still loyal to it.

    However, in the 90s American and diaspora Jewry in general began to seriously penetrate Israeli life and transform it in predictable ways. Israel today is heavily influenced by diaspora Jewry.
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  178. @Alden
    There is a reason why the rich Saudis Kuwaitis etc are subsidizing huge Muslim Arab settlement all around DC. It’s to establish a presence to offset the Jewish occupation of our government.

    They are doing exactly what the Jews did in the 20th century, endless whining and complaining coupled with massive bribery. Hopefully it will work someday.

    They are doing exactly what the Jews did in the 20th century, endless whining and complaining coupled with massive bribery. Hopefully it will work someday.

    Demographics are Destiny. Pew Research says by 2050 there will be as many Mohammedans as Christians (2.76 Billion vs 2.96 Billion). Jews will then number an insignificant 16 Million. A Mohammedan sneeze (or less likely a Christian fanatical sneeze) would snuff out Judaism like a hurricane would a candle.

    If Jews were remotely as smart as they think they are, they would move their Israel to a less contested piece of dirt. It’s not even a question of “if” but only a question of “when”. Their nation exists today only because of the protection from Uncle Sam and to lesser degree of England. As both become ever more Mohammedan, the clock winds down for Israel. Even today, a handful of fanatics in Pakistan or India and it’s over.

    As a non Jew hater, I hope they come to their senses and stop thinking and behaving in a manner that can only lead to their extinction.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Truth

    If Jews were remotely as smart as they think they are, they would move their Israel to a less contested piece of dirt.
     
    Having the Jewish homeland in Paraguay would kind of defeat the whole purpose, Old Sport.
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  179. Alden says:
    @Tyrion 2

    Again, you place this term out there which is your opinion; why should I simply agree with this? Based on what – your say so?
     
    Where's the high Muslim achievement?

    Furthermore, if I recall – before your and our idiot ethno-nationalists showed up, you guys were living in the hundreds of thousands across the Muslim world in Turkey, Algeria, Morocco, Egypt, etc. If we were so dysfunctional, why weren’t they in Europe…oh…wait
     
    Jews lived in all of those lands before Islam existed.

    Sure, but that’s what extremists do – I mean, they have a rep to keep, right? They can’t very well have them go through a court process with witnesses and evidence and then apply a reasonable ta’zir right? What would their friends say; ISIS, you cucks!
     
    It is disingenous to argue that Islamic extremism has nothing to do with Islam.

    I don’t know; how long will you remain thinking that you are the special class of humanity?
     
    Wouldn't it be nice if Muslims contributed as much to human advancement as other groups? Or at least, not orders of magnitude less?

    Muslims were at the top of the world materially for a while, the Abbasid Caliphate being so advanced and rich
     
    Interesting that you have to go a thousand years ago. Also interesting that your statement begs the question of what advances were those Muslim Abbasids responsible for?

    Have you read Tortoise and the Hare?
     
    That story took place over a day. This has taken place over a thousand years, and the finish line has been crossed by countless generations.

    The subject of the article is not Muslim achievements but Trump’s moving the American embassy to Jerusalem.

    You are way off topic with your ridiculous attempt to bring Muslim dis function into the discussion.

    Stuck to the topic.

    Read More
    • Agree: Talha
    • Replies: @jacques sheete

    You are way off topic with your ridiculous attempt to bring Muslim dis function into the discussion.
     
    It's typical behavior to attempt to derail the conversation by any means possible.

    While they are attention seekers they typically try to shift attention away from their misbehavior and blame others for what themselves they do.

    Pickpocket tactics.

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  180. Alden says:
    @snag
    "Nice payment to the Turks who allowed them to set up their colony".

    Spying, snitching and backstabbing it's their (™), ask Poles or any nation in Europe after Bolshevik Revolution that happen to be their creation and their evil responsible for annihilation at least. 130-150 million souls if you count Chinese victims. Mao Tse Tung wouldn't be Mao Tse Tung if it wasn't for his Jewish goons called 'advisors'. The 'Great Leap Forward' and 'Cultural Revolution' in China was conceived and executed by Mao's 'advisers' like comrade Sidney Rittenberg, the architect and founding father in charge of implementation of that evil plan responsible for at least 45 million starved to death Chinese peasants during collectivization, assisted by Sidney Shapiro, a member of the CPPCC National Committee for six terms, Israel Epstein, Solomon Adler, Martin Sorrell, Rewi Alley, Adolf Abramovitch Joffe to name few on the top of the influence ladder. In fact, a comprehensive analysis by Professor R.J. Rummel (professor emeritus of political science at the University of Hawaii) in his book 'China's Bloody Century: Genocide and Mass Murder Since 1900' concluded that both those events, the Great Leap Forward and Cultural Revolution are responsible for at least for 76 million deaths of starvation and related diseases? Nobody is talking about, why? Maybe because of the perpetrator's ethnic background ,...

    Couple years ago Rittenberg was promoting his book about his life in China and Mao on C-span and no one asked him a question what he was really doing there.

    https://wideawakegentile.wordpress.com/2013/12/18/jews-in-china-mao-era/

    The only way to fight them is to take the media from them and return to people without media in their hands they're nothing.

    When I was in college and up to about 1980, many of the Jews I knew carried around copies of Mao’s Little Red Book.

    A lot of them helped the likes of Kathy Boudin, Billy Ayers and Bernadette Dorhn when they were on the run after the bombings andmurder of police.

    Do the Chinese know about Mao’s Jewish advisors? The Armenians know that it was Jews in the Turkish government who instigated the Armenian genicide although it was mostly Kurds who did the dirty work.

    Thanks so much for the information.

    Read More
    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    A fairy tale, in my opinion, the Armenian genocide:

    Henry Morgenthau, 'Ambassador Morgenthau's Story', New York, 1918

    Heath W. Lowry, 'The story behind Ambassador Morgenthau's Story', Istanbul 1990

    'The Armenians in the Late Ottoman Period', edited Türkkaya Atatöv, Ankara, 2002.

    Howard M. Sachar, ‘The emergence of the Middle East 1914-1924’, New York, 1969
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  181. Talha says:
    @annamaria
    Thank you for the beautiful post.

    Most welcome and thank you for the many interesting links you are constantly providing.

    Peace.

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  182. Seraphim says:
    @Stan d Mute

    King David conquered it 1000 years Before Christ
     
    Yes, so what? Was King David your Messiah? The living embodiment of your YHWH? You’d do well to remember that 2,000,000,000+ Yeshua true believers are certain their God was born in a manger in Bethlehem, raised in Jerusalem where he preached and held his Last Supper before being arrested and crucified then finally resurrected. 2 Billion plus people are convinced “your” Jerusalem was where their God put their Messiah and your people killed Him.

    Your favorite nation exists today solely at the sufferance of those Yeshuans. Were I a Jew, I’d temper my exuberance a bit, Yeshuan fanatics may seem tamer than Mohammedans, but only because they are infinitely more restrained and more organized. All it takes is one charismatic Yeshuan fanatic to ask, “Why are the Christ killers running the town where they killed Christ?” What happened in WW2 wasn’t religious fanaticism but merely jealous populism against an alien minority, I hope you never see the former.

    Christians (not Yeshua ‘true believers’) know that Jesus was raised in Nazareth.

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  183. @redmudhooch
    I used to give the Israelis the benefit of the doubt about the Palestinians being the aggressors.
    But after what I've seen here in America, with them basically controlling our Govt. via AIPAC and other lobbies, the Federal Reserve, complete control of the MSM with all their lies, CIA, NSA, Soviet police state creep, well, its kind of hard not to put it all together...
    I now side with the Palestinians, if they're doing all this crap to us here in America, I can only imagine how they treat the Palestinians.......
    and they're gettin worse every day.
    Not good Israel, not good....

    I now side with the Palestinians, if they’re doing all this crap to us here in America, I can only imagine how they treat the Palestinians

    Same here. I’ve completely gone over to the Palestinian side because everything I’ve learned about Jews and Israel has filled me with such disgust.

    I can hardly even bring myself to call it “Israel” anymore. Instead I mostly refer to that land as Palestine or Occupied Palestine. With that being said, I still want all Jews to go there and stay there forever.

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  184. Frankie P says:
    @AaronB
    Excellent additions to the list talha!

    Especially Goethe was deeply attracted to Persian poetry, etc.

    Over on Anatoly Karlin's thread on Jews Bardon Karolian gives a really impressive list of cultured Europeans who despise Judaism as vulgar and crass.

    So it seems cultured European opinion really reacted to Judaism and Islam in completely opposite ways, and it was more than just a failure to find Judaism appealing.

    I feel almost bad bullying our poor Trion here - Tyrion, we don't hate Jews as people! And we hold out hope you can redeem your vulgar culture and forget about money and learn to find joy in poetry and imagination and spirituality.

    I think Tyrion and his ilk will continue to cultivate close relations with the likes of Reverend Hagee, CUFI, and the Evangelical Christians, a group not particularly well suited to the enjoyment of fine poetry, architecture, or even spirituality for that matter. This easily deceived group is so focused on radical interpretation of Revelations and their desire to bring about end times, they fail to see the detrimental effects of their blind support for Israel on the nation they claim to love.

    A pox upon them and their Zionist masters.

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  185. Talha says:
    @Alden
    I don’t think it matters if Muslim culture over the centuries is great, terrible or mediocre.

    What matters is that using first the Turks, then the British, Stalin for a few years and now the United States the Zionists stole an entire country from its rightful owners.

    Personally I don’t think Israel will last more than 200 more years. About 20 percent of the Jewish population of Israelis live in the Inited States because they can make a better living here. The Mizrahi totally hate the European Jews.

    Most of the Israelis hate conscription and don’t want to fight any more. That’s always been the job of the goyim.

    Betnahuyu was talking about taking over Ukraine as a refuge recently.

    Being nationalistic and productive, Israel just isn’t Jewish. They are a global people constantly in the move from one country to another. They are not really producers, they are dependent on the producers.

    Of course my theory doesn’t help the Palestinians who are suffering now.

    Hey Alden,

    Yeah – for some odd reason, Zionists often like to divert the discussion. Sometimes I ignore, sometimes I play along to expose the lack of knowledge and just bad character some of these guys have. They are not happy people. People who have a confidence in themselves and have contentment and don’t envy others have no problem with other people’ achievements and don’t need to denigrate others to feel better. The Muslim world had a fairly long run at science, medicine, etc. and being militarily powerful – it was probably top dog for about a 400-500 year range – not bad, not bad.

    Western Europe is a little late to the big-time civilization party, but hey, they’ve done fairly well on these fronts for the last few centuries – good for them. We’ve all certainly benefited; I plan to make Hajj on a plane when I take my wife.

    As far as Jerusalem and Israel too; I agree with your assessment that it won’t last too long. It’s not that Jews haven’t lived in the area or anything, they were all over the Middle East. Nobody in the pre-modern era minded that the population of Baghdad was 1/3 Jewish.

    Israel seems to me like some dream conjured up by a bunch of secular ethno-nationalists that weren’t even native to the place. Its a European thing (tied up in the whole notion of the ethno-nation-state), like you mentioned, the Mizrahis would never have come up with the scheme. It’s like communism or something; completely idealistic, bereft of a historical understanding (or even knowledge), with no vision of the long term future. And on top of it pissing off everyone in the area and making friends with the most hated elements of the Middle East like the Saudis. It’s seems so stupid to me that they ruined a relatively reasonable relationship the Jewish population had with the rest of the Middle East (for centuries may I add, the Jewish community of Baghdad was over 2000 years old) over this bunker-mentality pipe dream for muh nation-state.

    Of course my theory doesn’t help the Palestinians who are suffering now.

    No, but the right time will come…

    Peace.

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    • Replies: @Frankie P
    Absoutely beautiful video and tune; I'm touched; I'm sharing immediately with friends who will also share.

    What I love the most about this song is that it is directed towards my countrymen and I: Americans.

    "Do you know the truth of where your money goes?" (Answer: no, and they don't care.)
    "Do you let your media deceive your mind?" (Answer: undoubtedly, while believing that there own media choices are the truthful and honest ones, whether on the Fox News Right or MSNBC Left)

    "American, do you realize that the taxes that you pay feed the forces that traumatize my every living day?"
    (Discomforting, to say the least, to be faced with the reality that one is an enabler of evil, a participant, even if unwilling and unwitting.)

    Thank you, Talha. I have long enjoyed your comments.

    Frankie P
    , @Rurik
    Hello Talha,

    As I generally just read your posts (always with pleasure) I'd prefer to stay out of the theological conversations, because for one, I know so little about them, and also because they don't necessarily impact the things I'm writing about (anti-war, for instance).

    Zionism is different however, because it underlies the motivations for why the US was dragged into the World Wars, all the way to 9/11 and why my nation has committed atrocities on Israel's behalf as a result of that event.

    So even as I agree with many of your points, (and as always admire your style and eloquence) while staying out of the theological quagmires (as I see them ; ), I do occasionally read something that makes me wince. And not just from you, but from another eloquent poster, AaronB.


    Israel seems to me like some dream conjured up by a bunch of secular ethno-nationalists that weren’t even native to the place. Its a European thing (tied up in the whole notion of the ethno-nation-state), like you mentioned, the Mizrahis would never have come up with the scheme. It’s like communism or something; completely idealistic, bereft of a historical understanding (or even knowledge), with no vision of the long term future.
     
    specifically what I have trouble with is the relentless maligning of Western civilization and its people, as somehow flawed for the universal aspiration to persevere, as Western civilization, and the people for whom it suits.

    The idea of an 'ethno-nation-state' is hardly an uniquely European thing (and hardly like communism, quite the opposite!). And they certainly didn't invent it.

    Europeans are a minority on the planet, and every other race or ethnic group have all historically and currently practice a form of 'ethno-nation-state. Japan is not a multi-racial state. Neither is Korea or the Philippines or just about every nation on the planet. They nearly all have a common ethnicity and tradition and culture. Mexico does not allow Guatemalans to immigrate in significant numbers just as the Dominican Republic enforces (with good reason) its border with Haiti.

    Indeed, it seems there is only one race/ethnicity on the planet that are supposed to move aside in their own ancient lands- as unlimited numbers of foreigners move in and transform their homes into something they don't recognize.

    And I can't help but wonder if there's a movement afoot to destroy within them the universal aspiration for a homeland, (self-determination) for the myriad reasons of those who would like see them overrun.

    If you told the blacks of Zimbabwe that their efforts to create an ethno-nation-state are misguided, they'd laugh in your face. Especially if they're living in one of the formerly white-owned houses that their black ethno-aspirations have confiscated from the white people who built it, but then who lost their ethno-will to preserve. And why? Because they were harangued by others for the "evil" of wanting to live in an ethno-state of their own, and now have been ethnically cleansed by others whose desire for an ethno-state is stronger, and unencumbered by ethno-second guessing of themselves and wallowing in guilt for their "racism". Fat lot of good it's doing them now, huh?

    The idea that the ethno-nation state is an uniquely "European thing" is absurd. The only thing unique about an ethno-nation state vis-à-vis Europe, is that it is Europe (and all white, Western nations) that are maligned and berated day in, day out for the perfectly normal and healthy and universal desire to maintain what and who they are. So that their children and grandchildren will grow up and share their values and culture and heritage, and pass it down.

    Is that so terribly evil Talha?

    The reason Zionism is different, is because they're not trying to maintain anything. What they're tying to do is use terror (and murder and torture and daily humiliations/atrocities) to steal what other people's nation and homeland. To destroy the Palestinians ethno-nation-state, and replace it with their own.

    Much like what the blacks of Zimbabwe did to the whites, just as the blacks of S. Africa are getting ready to do to the whites there. And why? Because they (understandably) want their own ethno-nation-state (self-determination). But for that to happen, they have to first destroy the Dutch/English ethno-nation-state. And how did they go about setting that in motion? By calling the white people 'racist' and evil and maligning their character for the simple and universal and understandable desire to have a nation and a home of their own. A place for their children to grow up, and not be killed by rival ethnics who want their land and their homes for themselves.

    If you wanted to tell the Palestinians that their desire to maintain a national home with a distinct (if mixed) ethnicity and culture and heritage is wrong, and that if they weren't so racist and parochial, (acting European) they'd repudiate any desire to maintain their identity, and embrace the newcomers, even if they're occasionally hostile or unpleasant. It's all worth it to dismantle the evil of the ethno-nation-state.. and embrace the changes that the newcomers bring.

    Whether you're a Palestinian, or a German or S. African. Wanting to protect and nourish and maintain your identity for posterity- is not wrong and misguided (or evil), and it's certainly not unique to Europeans. But it is Europeans (and Palestinians) who are uniquely expected to hand over their lands to others- intent on their own ethno-hegemony, so that they can eventually dominate the former inhabitants and replace their ethnicity (and culture and traditions and heritage) with something that suits the ethnicity (and culture and religion, etc..) of the newcomers better. While perhaps maintaining a certain percentage of the former inhabitants as cheap labor, etc...

    The key to peace, IMHO, is respecting all people's right and will to self-determination. In their own ethno-nation-states, which in turn respect all other people's right to an ethno-nation-state of their own.

    If people don't like that kind of life, they can move to Hong Kong, or California (or pine for the days of the Ottoman Empire ; ). But for those who do, it's not racist (or European) to demand to maintain and pass down your identity and way of life.

    Peace.

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  186. My great great grandparents lived in a German castle in South West Germany, can I go there and take it from who ever controls it now? Is UNZ trolling this psychopath? Because if this is what this turns into I’m outta here

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  187. Cee says:

    Would it be ok if a Native American community took over Times Square because Natives have been in Americas for 15000 years while the rest only 500 years at most…a far far bigger spread than those of the fanatic children of Abraham…..?

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    • Replies: @iffen
    Would it be ok if a Native American community took over Times Square

    Only if they agree to take the rest of NYC along with it.
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  188. Biff says:
    February 23, 2018 at 5:58 am GMT
    One has to stand back in awe of the greatest bullshit story ever told. The champion of false promises and exaggerated claims – Religion.

    It’s a pity that Carlin’s ferocious intelligence didn’t comment on the greatest bullshit story ever told the HOLOCAUST – you know that story of the ‘Sacred 6 million’ who magically vanished without a trace that’s right NOT A SINGLE BODY WAS EVER FOUND OF A GASSED VICTIM, NOT A SINGLE MASS GRAVE LIKE KATYN OR SREBENICA WAS EVER FOUND WHEN THERE HAD TO BE HUNDREDS UPON HUNDREDS OF KATYN OR SREBENICAS. This bullshit story doesn’t end here we have the “MIRACULOUS COUPLE OF MILLIONS SURVIVORS’ imagine that when we were told that Hitler murdered every Jew who he could lay his hands on. Add to that no historian has ever ‘PRODUCED A PHOTO OR DRAWING OF A GAS CHAMBER NO HISTORIAN CAN PROVIDE A TECHNICAL REPORT OF THE INDUSTRIAL SCALE GASSINGS. It’s utterly ridiculous to think that those ‘PRIMITIVE HUTS’ in Auschwitz could be used to gas millions! Compare these crude huts with an American gas chamber.

    The Holocaust should be studied as exhibit A in the abuse of history for propagandistic purposes . Goebbels would have been in awe of this myth.

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    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    " Compare these crude huts with an American gas chamber. "

    Indeed, this was the idea of USA gas chamber builder Leuchter, after he had seen the Birkenau buildings, presented to the present day as gas chambers.
    Weird that the Birkenau guides never read
    Léon Poliakov, 'Bréviaire de la Haine, Le IIIe Reich et les Juifs', 1951, 1974, Paris
    Poliakov was present at the Neurenberg show, based on the 'testimony' given there he writes that the Auschwitz gas chambers were blown up by the Germans at the end of 1944, when the Red Army was approaching.
    On top of this, according to Poliakov, the gassings were in cellars.
    Elie Wiesel, who left there at the time, does not mention demolitions
    Elie Wiesel, 'La Nuit', 1958, 2007

    , @jacques sheete

    The Holocaust should be studied as exhibit A in the abuse of history for propagandistic purposes .
     
    True.


    The troll who extols the "akkomplushments" is probably referring to that or 9/11 or the like. Even I have to admit that they really accomplished something by pulling such gags on us dumb goyim.


    Goebbels would have been in awe of this myth.
     
    There can be no doubt that he was in awe of the big lie. The Nazis were propaganda pikers compared with the Brits, the Reds, and the Zionists, all of whom had a lot more experience and expertise with propaganda than Germany could ever dream of.

    In fact, one of the more stunning accomplishments of the tribe was to sell the nonsensical and perverted idea that the biggest propagandists were the Nazis, a false claim that even persists to this day, while the Brit, Red and Zio propagandists remain almost completely unknown to the masses.

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  189. Talha says:
    @AaronB
    Excellent additions to the list talha!

    Especially Goethe was deeply attracted to Persian poetry, etc.

    Over on Anatoly Karlin's thread on Jews Bardon Karolian gives a really impressive list of cultured Europeans who despise Judaism as vulgar and crass.

    So it seems cultured European opinion really reacted to Judaism and Islam in completely opposite ways, and it was more than just a failure to find Judaism appealing.

    I feel almost bad bullying our poor Trion here - Tyrion, we don't hate Jews as people! And we hold out hope you can redeem your vulgar culture and forget about money and learn to find joy in poetry and imagination and spirituality.

    Hey AaronB,

    Yes, he even wrote his own Diwan – pretty amazing!

    I feel almost bad bullying our poor Trion here – Tyrion, we don’t hate Jews as people!

    Yeah – I don’t hate Jews – the vast majority of my interactions with them have been friendly and cordial and I’ve never had a bad interaction with any co-workers, etc.

    My daughter had a recent bad interaction at her high school. She does props and stage management for theater at her school so she volunteered to help this religious Jewish group that was putting on an all-girls play. Since they were strict about male-female interaction (something our community also adheres to), they wanted only female volunteers. My daughter was very upset at the end of the day; she basically described her experience as “being yelled at all day by a bunch of Jewish ladies” – none of them thanked her for the hours of time she volunteered to help make the play a success. Funny thing is that one of her friends (who is Jewish) also volunteered to help and this girl was so pissed off at the behavior of these women. I simply told her; look, just like some Muslims do stupid stuff, they’ve got idiots in their own community too.

    But I have noticed something about plenty of Zionists on these forums, they are relentless about insulting others or speaking in condescending tones. Maybe it makes them feel better about themselves. Though I don’t consider Greasy William in this category. He is brutally honest, which I enjoy, but he will at least acknowledge Israeli or Jewish deficiencies and give credit to others where it’s due (though sometimes he needs correction).

    Peace.

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    • Replies: @AaronB
    Im sorry your daughter had to experience that. Bad manners, rudeness, and harshness is a big problem in the Jewish community. Many Jews complain about it too - it's partly a product of the lack of culture, joy, and beauty that comes from specializing in money acquisition, and partly the bad moods engendered by the constant ego competition and put downs that are a defining feature of Jewish social life, and partly a cultivated attitude - harshness and rudeness make sense if you are trying to "conquer".

    Working with a group of Jews I would have gone in expecting harshness, rudeness, competition, and put downs and insults.

    I'd be pleasantly surprised if it didn't happen, which sometimes is the case.

    You shouldn't be surprised about the condescending tones - the whole point of Judaism, it's raison d'etre, is condescension, so to speak :)

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  190. mcohen says:
    @Rurik


    “What kind of sick, twisted, perverted slimebag steals people’s land, murders their loved ones, and then blames the victim for it all?”

     

    Whats this……custers last stand

     

    I'm glad you mentioned the Amerindians vis-a-vis the genocide going on in Palestine today

    there are a few things worthy of note by way of contrasting those two events..

    First and foremost is that in the pre-WWII world, it was for the strong to encroach on the weak.

    The 'Indians' did it to each other with gusto, and it was the unwritten law of the world, that when a people were confronted by military superiority, they succumbed.

    The Aztecs and Apaches did it to their neighbors, and had it done to them in turn.

    But then at Nuremburg, the world created a new covenant. They repudiated the metric that 'might = right', and created a new world order for us all, and we all had our young souls as children, mortified by the 'horrors of the Holocaust', as we were all carefully indoctrinated into believing that genocide and Nazis and ethnic cleansing were the worst evils that have ever besieged the planet.

    That is the first thing to keep in mind.

    The second thing is that as the Europeans were ethnically cleansing and genociding the 'Indians', there was much handwringing over their tragic fate. Many tried to educate them and make civilized men and women out of them, so that they could assimilate into the culture.

    Sometimes it worked, and often it didn't, but the point is that they were treated as victims of the white newcomers, not as evil people for having the temerity to exist.

    It would be impossible to even imagine a white statesman or philosopher to say the existence of the Indians was an affront to God's will, and blame them for living. Such arrogance would have been inconceivable. They may have invoked God's will for 'manifest destiny', and the eventual replacement of the Indians, but they would hardly blame the Indians for being here first.

    For that kind of sinister wickedness, we have to look to the Zionists, who blame the Palestinians for living on "their" land.

    So there are two very important differences. One is that the post WWII Jews demanded after the war was over, (and the Germans were the ones being systematically genocided and raped and enslaved, etc..) that the Nazis were the most evil of all evil people who had ever lived! Because they wanted to ethnically cleanse the Jews out of their lands, and often persecuted the Jews who resisted or fought against the Nazis.

    So..

    If it's wrong, wrong. wrong.. (the most evil thing that anyone can do) to ethnically cleanse others out of your lands..

    as this has been the mantra that Jews have barraged us with for generations...

    then by what fucked up right do they have to ethnically cleanse other people out of those other people's lands?!

    You see? If what the Nazis did was the ultimate evil, then how the fuck are we all supposed to sit by while the screeching Jews, howling at us all for not doing enough to protect them.. murder and steal and genocide others?

    It's like Eli Weasel scourging us all as anti-Semites for allowing the Holocaust to happen on one hand, as he's engaging in the genocidal Nakba with the other hand.

    The hypocrisy is staggering and an affront to simple human intelligence and decency.

    and then to add to that, these genocidal hypocrites actually have the pus nads to blame the victims of their genocidal hatred and wrath.

    I'm sure Gen. Custer killed a lot of Indians, (murder or genocide if that's what you want to call it) but I doubt very seriously that he brow beat them for fighting back, or that he stood on their corpses and blamed them for living on reservations and all the attendant humiliations and depravations.

    How someone could look at the Indians, having suffered so much, and languishing on the reservations, and then demand 'look at how wrenched they are! Look at what they've done to themselves!

    for that kind of sickening 'blaming of the victims', we have to look at the singularly loathsome Zionists

    Troll

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    • Replies: @Rurik

    Troll
     
    what's the matter?

    Is it that you Zionists like to point to the N. Americans and say we have nothing to say about Zionism because we're living on the 'Indian's' land?

    Eh?

    That's important to you, as a kind of [false] 'moral equivalent', isn't it?

    But all of that was pre-Nuremburg, when it was considered noble to conquer. And you were admired for doing so, even by your vanquished, who were trying to do the same thing to you.

    But all of that changed after WWII, when the civilized world was rightfully appalled at the horrors of Total War.

    So they/we created a new covenant, and they/'we' {tortured and then} hanged the Nazis by the neck, and brutally humiliated the German people [that in a milder form, continues to this day] as an example to the next tribe that wants to take by force (steal) other people's land.

    But now selectively, some Zionists would like to pretend that Nuremburg never happened, and that in this one narrow context, we can all skip the lessons of WWII, since now they're strong, and in a position to genocide their neighbors.

    and out of one side of their mouths, they screech "Nazis"!! Look what they did to us!!!"

    and put grandmothers in prison for telling the truth

    and then out of the other side of their faces they foment wars and drop white phosphorous on children and connive to steal the Golan Heights.

    Indeed, guys like 'America's rabbi", Shmuley Boteach scold us all for our racism, and yet attempt, (pathetically) to try to justify the bloodthirsty super-racism of Zionism.

    And a reasonable person watches Shmuley, and how he assumes his audience is imbecilic, and we just wonder at how vile and dishonorable such a person is capable of being.

    But then Shmuley was raised in a culture of Kol Nidre, wasn't he? And so lying and cheating and one-upmanship are a well-honed tradition, aren't they?

    I don't like to lower the tenor of the conversation here, but when I hear people blaming the pitiable people of Gaza for the unimaginable suffering they've been forced to endure for generations - though no fault of their own, and listen to them being maligned, for apparently not being willing to just all die, so that Zionist Jews can steal the little left that they have on this earth, I tend to get a little intemperate in my tone.

    If it is wrong (and I believe it is) to use force to ethnically cleanse and murder and steal other people's property, then fine, and we should all continue to condemn it, wherever it's done, from Nazi Germany, to Gaza.

    This is what conversations like this are supposed to be about. What exactly are the rules? And why are we enforcing them selectively?

    If it is fine under certain circumstances to use barbarism to crush a people's will to exist, and attempt to destroy their dignity, so that you can steal their land, then the Nazis had every right to do what they did, and then some.

    If it's OK for Israel to torment and murder the citizens of Gaza and steal the Golan Heights- when it suits their whim = then everything the Nazis (supposedly) did to the Jews was justified; by the very same metrics and morality and motivations that the Zionists are purporting to justify what they're doing today in Palestine.

    And unless you believe that the Jews are different, and are not subject to the laws that govern Gentile behavior, because somehow they're sooo much better, then what I just said is based on irrefutable logic. Period.
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  191. Tyrion 2 says:
    @Alden
    Christian Lebanon was the Switzerland of the Middle East for centuries till the Jews chased the Palestinian refugees into Lebanon and then invaded Lebanon and almost destroyed it.

    Unfortunately demographics had already sealed Lebanon’s fate long before Israel was persuaded to intervene in order to stop the malfeasance of Palestinian groups. Demographics had been shifting for a century as the French had expanded the borders when they took over from the Ottomans. This led to Christians and Druze dwindling as a proportion of the population.

    As a matter of clear historical record, Southern Lebanese threw rice at the incoming Israelis to welcome them. Unfortunately for Israel, mission creep meant they long overstayed and the interventiom turned sour. Lebanese may often blame Israel for the Palestinians ending up in Lebanon amd causing so much trouble but that is as much implied sympathy to Israel’s situation as it is looking for a scapegoat.

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    • Replies: @jacques sheete

    As a matter of clear historical record, Southern Lebanese threw rice at the incoming Israelis to welcome them.
     
    The Nazis also enjoyed similar receptions. A big difference is that the Nazis probably never intended to betray those who welcomed them and that they likely intended to liberate and protect them from the crackpot Reds.

    And we should all know who/what were responsible for the "permanent world revolution" Red supremacist movement.
    , @Sam J.
    "...Southern Lebanese threw rice at the incoming Israelis to welcome them..."

    And what did the Jews do? They stabbed them in the back like they do everyone. The only reasonable response to Jews is to get rid of them. Move them away from you by any means possible.
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  192. @Alden
    When I was in college and up to about 1980, many of the Jews I knew carried around copies of Mao’s Little Red Book.

    A lot of them helped the likes of Kathy Boudin, Billy Ayers and Bernadette Dorhn when they were on the run after the bombings andmurder of police.

    Do the Chinese know about Mao’s Jewish advisors? The Armenians know that it was Jews in the Turkish government who instigated the Armenian genicide although it was mostly Kurds who did the dirty work.

    Thanks so much for the information.

    A fairy tale, in my opinion, the Armenian genocide:

    Henry Morgenthau, ‘Ambassador Morgenthau’s Story’, New York, 1918

    Heath W. Lowry, ‘The story behind Ambassador Morgenthau’s Story’, Istanbul 1990

    ‘The Armenians in the Late Ottoman Period’, edited Türkkaya Atatöv, Ankara, 2002.

    Howard M. Sachar, ‘The emergence of the Middle East 1914-1924’, New York, 1969

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  193. @Ace
    Thanks. Something to keep in mind. Arab Muslims took Christian/pagan lands in the M.E. and N. Africa. Turkish Muslims took it from them and a subset of them cheated resident Arab Muslims in "Palestine" or Palestine. They then sold some of this land to Zionists. I'm not trying to be facile but it does seem that the idea of "claim of right" to land in that area is pretty weak.

    I was referring to later purchases by Jews from individual Arabs. Maybe the latter really were Turks and known to be so by the Zionists but the casual reading I was doing on this issue back when left me with my present belief that it was local Arabs who purported to be owners who sold the land. Jews then made a point never selling any land purchased back to any Arabs, thereby gradually adding to the total of Jewish-owned land.

    Be that as it may, the military and terrorist efforts in 1948 created Israel and the strategy of purchase became moot.

    The story about the zionist purchases of Palestinian lands is carefully guarded.
    When you ask a jewish historian about it the answer is ‘very complicated question, difficult to explain’.

    It took me a long time to find out, I nowhere did find a clear explanation, not even in
    Charles D Smith, ‘Palestine and the Arab-Israeli conflict’, New York, 1992
    in my opinion the best book on the conflict.
    There are later editions.

    What I did not write, in Palestine there was no legal title to land.
    In the Palestinian culture the land belonged to who tilled it.

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    • Replies: @Ace
    Whoa. 1,200+ years to figure out a way of clarifying land ownership and that was state-of-the-art legal thinking?

    "Carefully guarded" also covers a lot of ground in any consideration of the part Jews have played in Western life. Over-representation in the ranks of the Cheka, the Bolsheviks, and Western communist parties and leftist movements is a subject remarkable for its near complete absence from public discussion. Similarly unmentionable is Jewish political control and dominance in media ownership and the film industry.

    The "Holocaust" was real enough though I see no reason to be hypersensitive about discussion of it. At least if you're not striving to perpetuate a lucrative victim's status. Jews expend enormous resources to keep attention focused on "The Holocaust" but the real holocaust denial is the purposeful dead silence about the various holocausts visited on Russians, Chinese, Cambodians, and N. Koreans.

    And God help the man who suggests that Barbara Lerner Specter's oopsie is in fact the purest distillation of the goals of institutional or organized Jewry it is possible to find. The idea that captains of industry just had to have foreign labor to drive down wages (and support white retirees) and had no idea of the enormous social and political destruction this would entail just doesn't hold any water. The Plan is every bit as malevolent as Specter (and Frans Timmermans, not Jewish, let it be said) make clear. Every last defect of non-Jewish Westerners can be exposed and ridiculed until the cows come (or peak oil is reached) but don't dare debate the conduct and aims of Jews if you don't want to be listed as a "hater" by the ADL and the SPLC.

    There are, of course, righteous Jews who want no part of this but those who play a public role pay a high price so they tend keep a low profile. Where are the Benjamin Freedmans? Or is there only one version of WWI, WWII, and the destruction of the West in our time?

    This leads to brittleness in the public debate about Israel, for example, whose future looks dim. Clearly it's an artificial state whose existence is entirely dependent on (1) military power (and (2) massive U.S. financial tribute) and, (3) according to official thinking, incessant war on its neighbors (some of whom have been guilty of their own excesses).

    But, I digress.
    , @renfro

    What I did not write, in Palestine there was no legal title to land.
    In the Palestinian culture the land belonged to who tilled it
     
    Well yes and no...the Ottoman land code said who tiled the land owned it....BUT ....they were also issued deeds.

    ''Land ownership under the British Mandate was based on the Ottoman Land Code, with additional legislation adopted during the Mandate. Under the Ottoman Code, land was classified in five categories with provisions for documentation of registration. The two basic types of land were mulk (private lands), and miri (land
    leased from the state). While the latter was subject to certain limitations, miri land was inherited, sold, and generally regarded as the land of the user. Under the code, individuals able to prove cultivation of a plot of land for 10 years or more were issued a title of ownership.

    The Mandate government also adopted measures under the 1928 Land (Settlement of Title) Ordinance for identification and registration of land according to cadastral survey. By the end of the British Mandate, titles were settled and registered on 25% of the total land area of Mandate Palestine. Five laws were adopted between 1920 and 1940 to address Palestinian Arab concerns about Jewish/Zionist land purchases in Palestine, including the eviction of agricultural tenants by mostly absentee landlords who were not Palestinian. The laws, however, failed to provide the protection that Palestinian Arabs Land Ownership in Palestine/Israel (1920-2000) demanded, often due to loopholes, which allowed individuals and agencies to circumvent the legislation. In 1938, moreover, Zionist officials were granted permission by Mandate authorities to copy land registration and taxation documents pertaining to the status of Palestinian Arab land ownership for the express purpose of facilitating Zionist land acquisition.

    When open military confrontations began in 1947-48, many Palestinian landowners were not in possession of their ownership certificates, because they had submitted them to the regional British Land Settlement Offices in Jaffa, Beersheba, Jerusalem, Tulkarem, Jenin, and Nablus. With the division of Palestine according to the cease-fire agreements in 1948-49, Palestinian landowners no longer had access to their documents, which were consequently transferred to and archived in capitals beyond their reach (London, Amman, West Jerusalem/Jaffa). Access to these archives has remained restricted until today
    http://www.badil.org/en/component/k2/item/1055-land-ownership-in-palestine.html

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  194. @Stan d Mute

    King David conquered it 1000 years Before Christ
     
    Yes, so what? Was King David your Messiah? The living embodiment of your YHWH? You’d do well to remember that 2,000,000,000+ Yeshua true believers are certain their God was born in a manger in Bethlehem, raised in Jerusalem where he preached and held his Last Supper before being arrested and crucified then finally resurrected. 2 Billion plus people are convinced “your” Jerusalem was where their God put their Messiah and your people killed Him.

    Your favorite nation exists today solely at the sufferance of those Yeshuans. Were I a Jew, I’d temper my exuberance a bit, Yeshuan fanatics may seem tamer than Mohammedans, but only because they are infinitely more restrained and more organized. All it takes is one charismatic Yeshuan fanatic to ask, “Why are the Christ killers running the town where they killed Christ?” What happened in WW2 wasn’t religious fanaticism but merely jealous populism against an alien minority, I hope you never see the former.

    There is not a shred of archeologic evidence that a king David existed

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  195. Tyrion 2 says:
    @Talha

    Where’s the high Muslim achievement?
     
    Define high achievement.

    Jews lived in all of those lands before Islam existed.
     
    This is true and not true. They did, but not in those numbers. So you completely want to ignore the fact that thousands of Jews moved into Muslim lands and did fairly well there? There were no Jews that were taken into Abbasid or Mamluk or Ottoman territory after being expelled from other lands? Really?

    It is disingenous to argue that Islamic extremism has nothing to do with Islam.
     
    Of course it has to do with Islam - we have extremists. What, you don't have Jewish extremists? Really?

    human advancement
     
    Define advancement.

    Also interesting that your statement begs the question of what advances were those Muslim Abbasids responsible for?
     
    So you are completely unfamiliar with men like Khwarezmi, Biruni, Ibn al-Haytham, Ibn Rushd, etc.?We're cool with that. What's interesting is that under the mural of Civilizations at the Library of Congress; Islam is listed as the civilization that contributed "Physics":
    https://simergphotoblog.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/loc-evolution-of-civilization.jpg

    Oh, and...
    "Herman, the first Rabin-Shvidler Joint Post-Doctoral Fellow in Jewish Studies, delivered his talk, “Legal Theory and Revelation: Jewish Law in an Islamic Milieu,” at the Lincoln Center campus...
    He explored the competing philosophies of two of the most influential Jewish jurists and philosophers of the Middle Ages, Seʿadya ben Joseph Gaon and Moses Maimonides...Both, however, would have been heavily influenced by Muhammad ibn Idrīs al-Shāfiʿī, a Palestinian-Arab Muslim theologian, writer, and scholar, who lived from 767 to 820 A.D. Shāfiʿī insisted that only revealed text, such as the Koran or certain oral traditions, constituted acceptable legal sources.
    'By putting Seʿadya and Maimonides in dialogue with Islamic legal thought, we can better understand their theories on their own terms, why their assertions were compelling to them and their immediate readers, and why later readers often struggled with their ideas,' Herman said."
    https://news.fordham.edu/politics-and-society/scholar-details-jewish-jurisprudence-influenced-islam/

    I'm not even posting anything about how Hebrew was influenced by Arabic, you can do your own research on that one.

    Do you know how many constellations and stars still have Arabic names?


    This has taken place over a thousand years, and the finish line has been crossed by countless generations.
     
    Oh, so you are unfamiliar with it.

    Define high achievement.

    Going to the moon, building the internet, curing diseases, creating the novel, discovering DNA…

    The sophist asks the other to define the obvious in the forlorn hope that the other makes a small technical error so that the sophist can go back to their studied ignorance and pretend that the obvious does not exist.

    This is true and not true. They did, but not in those numbers. So you completely want to ignore the fact that thousands of Jews moved into Muslim lands and did fairly well there? There were no Jews that were taken into Abbasid or Mamluk or Ottoman territory after being expelled from other lands? Really?

    You’re flogging a straw man. Jews tend to do fairly well wherever they turn up, just as Muslims tend to do fairly badly. This is the phenomena, especially the Muslim part, that we are discussing. It is the phenomena that would render great benefit were there an answer to why it almost always is. Now your turn…

    So you are completely unfamiliar with men like Khwarezmi, Biruni, Ibn al-Haytham, Ibn Rushd, etc.?We’re cool with that. What’s interesting is that under the mural of Civilizations at the Library of Congress; Islam is listed as the civilization that contributed “Physics”

    Yay, that a fifth of the globe contributed a handful of moderately interesting figures and that America in a fit of extremely generous and obviously wrong politically correct generosity allowed that fifth an achievement is your best argument…

    Surely your argument now rests mostly on American condescension?

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    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    " Jews tend to do fairly well wherever they turn up, just as Muslims tend to do fairly badly "

    Never saw the remains of the water wheels near Cordoba, the mosque there, the most impressive building I ever saw, or the Alhambra in Seville ?
    , @renfro

    Is it that the prisons are full of converts to Judaism or is it that the prisons are full of refined and sophisticated Europeans?Jews tend to do fairly well wherever they turn up, just as Muslims tend to do fairly badly.
     
    Because they are thieves, cons and parasites.....always have been always will be...steals from Muslims in Palestine, steals from Americans.

    NCJRS Abstract
    The document referenced below is part of the NCJRS Virtual Library collection. To conduct further searches of the collection, visit the Virtual Library. See the Obtain Documents page for direction on how to access resources online, via mail, through interlibrary loans, or in a local library.

    '' THE JEWISH CRIME RATE TENDS TO BE HIGHER THAN THAT OF NONJEWS AND OTHER RELIGIOUS GROUPS FOR WHITE-COLLAR OFFENSES, THAT IS, COMMERCIAL OR COMMERCIALLY RELATED CRIMES, SUCH AS FRAUD, FRAUDULENT BANKRUPTCY, AND EMBEZZLEMENT''

    NCJ Number: NCJ 006180
    Title: CRIMINALITY AMONG JEWS - AN OVERVIEW
     

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  196. @Old Jew
    Dear Mr. Jilles Dykstra,

    I read your post above, and decided to confirm with Wikipedia:

    It said: "... Another incident happened in Petah Tikva, where in early 1886 the Jewish settlers demanded that their tenants vacate the disputed land and started encroaching on it. On March 28, a Jewish settler crossing this land was attacked and robbed of his horse by Yahudiya Arabs, while the settlers confiscated nine mules found grazing in their fields, though it is not clear which incident came first and which was the retaliation. The Jewish settlers refused to return the mules, a decision viewed as a provocation. The following day, when most of the settlement's men folk were away, fifty or sixty Arab villagers attacked Petach Tikva, vandalizing houses and fields and carrying off much of the livestock. Four Jews were injured and a fifth, an elderly woman with a heart condition, died four days later.[9] ..."

    Thus what you call Palestinian Landowners were Arab Tenant Farmers, on land owned legally (bought from the Ottomans) by the Jews. [No Palestinians before 1964 Arafat, and no Zionists before 1897 Basel].

    I grew up with the communist slogan:

    "The land belongs to those who work it with their hands."

    Thus I can understand your noble impulse to rename Arab Tenant Farmers to Palestinian Landowners.

    Cheers,
    sf

    Indeed, there still are people who trust wikipedia, not me

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    • Replies: @Old Jew
    Dijkstra (1968) "A Case against the GO TO Statement" .

    Edgar Dykstra is one of the Elders of my profession.

    Makes me partial to your name.

    By the way.
    I very much agree with your brother.
    The church provides friends and community.
    Even if you are atheist (but not militant),
    the friends the stability, the predictability, the routine,
    the songs are there to support you and strengthen you,
    and do extend your mortal life, here on this Earth.
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  197. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @whatgarbage
    As an Israeli citizen, Israeli lawyer and student of Jewish law, and as someone who has represented Palestinians in the law courts and exposed the lies of the Jewish establishment, I can only say that I am shocked at the publication of this utter drivel on this site. I too am from South Africa - I know about apartheid, and I am fully aware of the hideous apartheid both in Israel proper and naturally in the military occupied unfree Palestinian territories of the West Bank and Gaza.
    It might help if the author would acquaint herself with real Jewish history and the quality of the biblical narrative. She should read Israel Finkelstein et al. on the total disconnect between the bible and history in Canaan and Palestine. The Land of Israel is a literary invention - as are the Children of Israel. There is no historical record nor evidence for King David and King Solomon, and the first temple, whatever that was, cannot be verified on what is now called the Temple Mount.

    But besides all this, the real issue is whether living people, a living community of Palestinian Arabs, has the right to life over people who never existed, and if they did, they are dead more than two thousand years. Whether they have the rights of ius soli - the rights of soil - the right to self-determination where they were born and where they live, over a foreign community, the Jews.
    The entire Zionist ideology is based on an internal contradiction - the Jews who were not born in Palestine are entitled to Palestine aka as the land of their birth because of the bible!

    According to Zionism, Palestine is the birthright of those who were not born here, and whose parents and grandparents and great grandparents were also not born here, going back to an unidentifiable past, but because they call themselves "Jews" - an appellation which originally referred to the territory of Judah and those that lived in it were Judeans.

    Be that as it may, Zionism provided the framework for the physical conquest and consequent genocidal treatment of the local inhabitants of Palestine: 90% were expelled from Palestine with untold numbers killed - a figure unavailable because of Israeli control of the archives as well as the destruction of approximately 500 villages, the remains of which I see all around me.
    Furthermore that destruction and discrimination is an ongoing phenomenon to be found in the inequality and unfairness of budget allocations, town planning and the huge lack of sufficient housing and urban facilities in Arab towns and villages, the lack of educational and professional opportunities, in particular the lack of access to any position tied in with "security". In addition Palestinian Arabs live within a police state framework government by the GSS - General Security Services or Shabak, which are in control of and are aware of absolutely everything and anything that occurs within the Israeli Palestinian community, despite their being citizens as welll as in the occupied territories of Palestine. This article too will enter their radar.

    In addition to the drivel of history in the article the author lacks a quality the absence of which allowed her to write what she wrote. This is both a commonsensical understanding of morality and an understanding of the basic distinction between good and evil, and if we refer to the bible, she has left out the pivotal commandments: thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not covet, thou shalt not take the name of thy God in vain nor shat thou blaspheme. All these commandments have been brush aside by Zionism as well as by the author!

    Come and see for yourselves!

    Is “whatgarbage” a real Jewish personality type? The kind who’s not satisfied with the destruction of someone else’s country (White South Africa) but then insists on destroying her own?

    This person’s probably just trolling. Hard to imagine you could be this insane.

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  198. Tyrion 2 says:
    @Talha
    A question though? What does this have to do with the sharing of Jerusalem? Are we supposed to present the Israelis with some certificate of how many "achievements" or "goal posts" we have reached before we qualify? I'm sorry, I have a difficult time in coming to terms with a proposition that our Ummah has to justify ourselves to yours - yours is a rounding error when compared to us. Why do we need your approval?

    We got here because I pointed out that Islam’s supposed spiritual attachment to Jerusalem is a mere artefact of Islam’s blundering plagiarism. I then expanded to point out that such ill-understanding and uncreative plagiarism does not only describe much of the origin of Islam but it also describes much of the output of Muslim ‘culture’. This led me to ask why this was and if you agreed that this is a deep shame? You avoided the obvious and are now back to implying that because 1.6 billion want something, even if they don’t understand it, then 1.6 billion should get it because they have a propensity to violence and tend to do nothing more productive. Which ironically provides a perfectly logical response to my previous question. So thank you for your answer! My next question is how are Muslims going to go about solving all of the problems in the many Muslim countries?

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    • Replies: @Bliss

    Islam’s supposed spiritual attachment to Jerusalem is a mere artefact of Islam’s blundering plagiarism.
     
    Exactly. The original blunder was corrected by Almighty, All-Knowing Allah himself in the Koran (the ultimate authority in Islam) where he commands Mohammad to stop prostrating towards Jerusalem and instead start prostrating towards Mecca. And by the way, the Kaaba in Mecca at that time still contained all its idols and images.

    There is absolutely no religious justification for Muslim claims to a share of Jerusalem.
    , @Talha

    Going to the moon, building the internet, curing diseases, creating the novel, discovering DNA…
     
    Cool, so building upon and advancing the mathematics of the Greeks doesn't count, apparently neither does opthamology and surgery...
    "Islamic Culture and the Medical Arts: Ophthalmology and Surgery"
    https://www.nlm.nih.gov/exhibition/islamic_medical/islamic_09.html

    Nor the advances in fields like astronomy, cartography, etc. So basically no one but Europeans had anything that qualifies as high achievement. And nothing really counts until about a couple of centuries ago. Again - cool with us.

    But this is OK - there are Jews like you and then there are Jews that have studied the past in a more objective manner:
    "In Knowledge Triumphant, Franz Rosenthal observes that the Islamic civilization is one that is essentially characterized by knowledge ('ilm), for 'ilm is one of those concepts that have dominated Islam and given Muslim civilization its distinctive shape and complexion.' There is no branch of Muslim intellectual and daily life that remained untouched by the all-pervasive attitude towards 'knowledge' as something of supreme value for Muslim being."
    http://www.brill.com/knowledge-triumphant

    "Hebrew grammar and philology did not exist as disciplines or even as systematic activities until the classical age of Islam. For the Jews, these intellectual ventures first arose in the Muslim East in the late ninth century as a result of their encounter with Arabo-Islamic culture in general and their adoption of Arabic as a spoken language in particular. Hebrew grammatical works in Judeo-Arabic follow Arabic models and terminology and represent some of the earliest literary manifestations and the most critical components of the Jewish sub-cultural minority's efforts to adapt Jewish culture to the intellectual regimen established by Islam. Just as Arabic grammar and philology were essential tools for Qur'anic exegesis. Hebrew linguistic study became the cornerstone for biblical exegesis and the revival of Hebrew as a literaray language."
    Medieval Islamic Civilization: An Encyclopedia

    The guy who wrote that passage is this:
    http://neareasternstudies.cornell.edu/ross-brann

    Any Muslim who knows his history finds your opinions fairly amusing.


    that America in a fit of extremely generous and obviously wrong politically correct generosity
     
    No, that mural was done when the South was still still segregated - there was no political correctness to speak of. Americans had a much more gracious and expansive attitude towards the achievement of others because they weren't petty about recognizing who had helped humanity (and them in particular) get to where they did.

    Islam’s blundering plagiarism
     
    Back to square one, eh?

    That's totally fine. Muslim achievements over the centuries don't meet your standards. Apparently, all Muslim, ahem, "culture" is dysfunctional and hasn't achieved anything. I'm actually very glad you are saying this stuff for everyone to read - frankly makes my job easier. I was talking with another brother who is observing this thread, we love it when the Zionist lose the veneer of civility and the condescending, uncompromising tribalism comes out. I just wish more of you guys spoke like this publicly. Tell me, do you think you are convincing people to your side here with the way you are approaching the subject?

    We've got plenty to do to fix issues in our societies which are far from perfect. That still doesn't answer the question about Jerusalem though.

    So let's recap; you're not willing to share sovereignty reasonably and keep it an international city, you delegitimize our religious claims to the city, and apparently we don't meet your approval for civilizational standards (when has our Ummah ever looked for Jewish approval).

    All well and good (not much different was expected actually) - so we do this the hard way (man, am I glad we are not a pacifist religion); again, how many of your lives is worth owning all of Jerusalem? As the numbers attest, your position rests on the ability to try to convince others to be pulled into a fight on your side against their own self interests. This is what Ms. Mercer is trying to achieve with this article. The Europeans are already becoming less and less interested in becoming cannon fodder, I guess the question is, how long will the US go along?

    Because attitudes like yours set the course for this to be resolved in only one way.

    The good thing is; I don't think you represent the more reasonable side of your people.

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  199. Tyrion 2 says:
    @AaronB
    I was just pointing out that Jews dont excel Muslims in the charm or culture department.

    Jewish culture has no appeal to to cultured Europeans, while Islam has lots.

    In other ways, Jewish accomplishment is impressive, like with money, and Jewish culture has managed to attract whites who are passionate about money rather than culture.

    Value judgements are subjective. I was just trying to get the facts straight.

    Jewish culture has no appeal to to cultured Europeans, while Islam has lots.

    As I wrote previously and you ignored…

    Is it that the prisons are full of converts to Judaism or is it that the prisons are full of refined and sophisticated Europeans?

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  200. @Old Jew
    Correct!

    I have not read Thomas Thompson, but whatever history I read, provide the same timeline.

    Nevertheless I love my Bible.

    My brother and I were raised without religion, it was a non issue, what had been the little village church was converted for use for sports.
    To be completely clear, we were not raised in an anti religion atmosphere.
    The few in our village who went to church in a nearby village were conspicuous, on bicycles, in Sunday clothes.
    But, my brother, why, I still do not know, later in life joined a church.
    I never asked him outright about why.
    I hardly ever dared ask religious people about their belief, very sensitive issue.
    But he did make a few statements ‘I do not know what I believe’, ‘I feel good in church’, ‘it does not matter if Jesus existed or not, what matters is his ideas’.
    As long as people accept that laws are above religious rules, why should I object to beliefs ?
    The problem is that true believers believe that their beliefs, and the rules they see in their holy book, whatever it is, are above the secular law.

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  201. Tyrion 2 says:
    @Alden
    I don’t think it matters if Muslim culture over the centuries is great, terrible or mediocre.

    What matters is that using first the Turks, then the British, Stalin for a few years and now the United States the Zionists stole an entire country from its rightful owners.

    Personally I don’t think Israel will last more than 200 more years. About 20 percent of the Jewish population of Israelis live in the Inited States because they can make a better living here. The Mizrahi totally hate the European Jews.

    Most of the Israelis hate conscription and don’t want to fight any more. That’s always been the job of the goyim.

    Betnahuyu was talking about taking over Ukraine as a refuge recently.

    Being nationalistic and productive, Israel just isn’t Jewish. They are a global people constantly in the move from one country to another. They are not really producers, they are dependent on the producers.

    Of course my theory doesn’t help the Palestinians who are suffering now.

    I dont think you know anything about Israel. Let me straighten out your basic factual errors.

    . About 20 percent of the Jewish population of Israelis live in the United States because they can make a better living here.

    Statistically this is not true. Furthermore, of that substantially less than 20 percent, a big proportion are students and an even bigger proportion are American citizens with dual nationality, much with their roots in America not Israel. Your statement is simply born of the crazies on this site echoing nonsense back and forth to each other. It is embarassing.

    The Mizrahi totally hate the European Jews.

    Considering that all of the Israelis I met, who were alnost all under 35, had at least one Mizrahi grandparent and at least one Ashkenazi, this is demonstrably false.

    Most of the Israelis hate conscription and don’t want to fight any more.

    I wouldn’t confuse the desire for peace for decadence. Western Europe has become decadent and projecting our own worst feelings onto Israel has become a habit. Indeed projecting our own worst feelings in general has become a habit.

    Betnahuyu was talking about taking over Ukraine as a refuge recently.

    Being nationalistic and productive, Israel just isn’t Jewish. They are a global people constantly in the move from one country to another. They are not really producers, they are dependent on the producers

    Israel isn’t Jewish because it doesn’t fit your anti-Semitic stereotype and Israel is looking to relocate to Ukraine? If you’re doing parody of an internet loon you are hamming it up far too much!

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    • Replies: @Alden
    1 million out of 5 million living in another country is 20 percent. No other country has that big a percentage of its citizens living in another country. A lot of the Israeli immigrants to the states are the Mizrahi who feel they can’t make a living in Israel because of discrimination.

    And what’s with those mall kiosks which is a better living than they can get in Israel? Kiosk owners they are nothing but shetl pushcart peddlers. Come on, a country that has to send it’s young men to America to be pushcart peddlers in malls?
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  202. Tyrion 2 says:
    @AaronB
    Excellent additions to the list talha!

    Especially Goethe was deeply attracted to Persian poetry, etc.

    Over on Anatoly Karlin's thread on Jews Bardon Karolian gives a really impressive list of cultured Europeans who despise Judaism as vulgar and crass.

    So it seems cultured European opinion really reacted to Judaism and Islam in completely opposite ways, and it was more than just a failure to find Judaism appealing.

    I feel almost bad bullying our poor Trion here - Tyrion, we don't hate Jews as people! And we hold out hope you can redeem your vulgar culture and forget about money and learn to find joy in poetry and imagination and spirituality.

    So it seems cultured European opinion really reacted to Judaism and Islam in completely opposite ways, and it was more than just a failure to find Judaism appealing.

    Looking at the very few European converts to Islam that don’t do it in prison, it seems that a large percentage are closeted homosexuals who historically took to Islam to have free reign of the numerous boy markets that Muslim countries have traditionally kept.

    Naturally, those closeted individuals are occasionally also interesting people, but, for the most part, they merely seem to have idenfitied a certain homoeroticism in Sunni Muslim culture and decided they wanted in on it.

    The whole widely admitted and long-established phenomena is quite confusing. I suppose it relates to the Jungian idea of The Shadow. I don’t really care enough to investigate though, even while recognising that this archetype is clearly hugely active in this comment thread. Mostly because I imagine that these thoughts will mostly just go whoosh over their heads.

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    • Replies: @AaronB
    Yes, I'm sure that's it Tyrion :)

    Look, theres no need to be so defensive - I'm not really insulting Jews. You're taking this way too personally.

    I like understanding reality - one of the first things everyone has commented about Jews is that they are unusually rich but have no culture or sophistication or beauty - it's not me, this seems to be the consensus of European intellectuals for centuries. Don't get angry at me!

    What interests me is, maybe by specializing in wealth acquisition, Jews had to neglect beauty and culture and the like? Maybe that accounts for the peculiar ugliness that so many have observed about Jewish life?

    Probably the FIRST thing one notices about Ashkenazi Jews after the wealth is a certain peculiar physical ugliness - not universal, but widespread - and a corresponding absence of beauty and culture in their social life. The only religion with no art - that must have some connection to the widespread physical ungainliness of Ashkenazim and is a wider question worth exploring.

    It's an interesting hypothesis and worth examining if you are able to suspend your emotional sensitivities for a moment. You need a certain amount of emotional detachment that excitable Ashkenazim are not noted for.

    It's not 'against' Jews - it's sociology and it's ultimately hopeful.

    Maybe the tragic seperation of Ashkenazi Jews from beauty, poetry, and imagination, the "soul", and even the body, can be redeemed?

    In Israel, as you know, the physical ugliness of the Ashkenazim is somewhat softening as they marry with the Sephardim, who aren't wealthy but who are physically healthy and good looking.

    And maybe the peculiar harshness and drabness of Ashkenazi life can similarly find redemption through engagement with cultures that have beauty.

    Extreme specialization, in this case toward money acquisition, will produce grotesqueries and deformities - it's natural.

    Now, can you put aside your defensiveness and excitability for a moment to consider this?
    , @renfro

    Looking at the very few European converts to Islam that don’t do it in prison, it seems that a large percentage are closeted homosexuals who historically took to Islam to have free reign of the numerous boy markets that Muslim countries have traditionally kept.
     
    I don't think I'd get started on Muslim homosexuals and etc. if I were you....considering 99% of recent sexual assaulters are Jews and Jews in the news for pedophilia are way exceeding the Catholic priest scandal.

    Your culture has some severe sex problems...maybe you should lay off the porn.

    Jews and Porn
    https://www.jewishquarterly.org/issuearchive/articled325.html?articleid=38
    ''A story little told is that of Jews in Hollywood’s seedier cousin, the adult film industry. Perhaps we’d prefer to pretend that the ‘triple-exthnics’ didn’t exist, but there’s no getting away from the fact that secular Jews have played (and still continue to play) a disproportionate role throughout the adult film industry in America. Jewish involvement in pornography has a long history in the United States, as Jews have helped to transform a fringe subculture into what has become a primary constituent of Americana. These are the ‘true blue Jews’.
    Smut peddlers
    Jewish activity in the porn industry divides into two (sometimes overlapping) groups: pornographers and performers. Though Jews make up only two per cent of the American population, they have been prominent in pornography. Many erotica dealers in the book trade between 1890 and 1940 were immigrant Jews of German origin. According to Jay A. Gertzman, author of Bookleggers and Smuthounds:The Trade in Erotica, 1920-1940 (Philadelphia: University of Pennsylvania Press, 1999), ‘Jews were prominent in the distribution of gallantiana [fiction on erotic themes and books of dirty jokes and ballads], avant-garde sexually explicit novels, sex pulps, sexology, and flagitious materials’

    As ADL National Director Abraham H. Foxman commented, ‘Those Jews who enter the pornography industry have done so as individuals pursuing the American dream.’

    Sexual revolutionaries
    Extending the subversive thesis, Jewish involvement in the X-rated industry can be seen as a proverbial two fingers to the entire WASP establishment in America. Some porn stars viewed themselves as frontline fighters in the spiritual battle between Christian America and secular humanism. According to Ford, Jewish X-rated actors often brag about their ‘joy in being anarchic, sexual gadflies to the puritanical beast’. Jewish involvement in porn, by this argument, is the result of an atavistic hatred of Christian authority: they are trying to weaken the dominant culture in America by moral subversion. Astyr remembers having ‘to run or fight for it in grammar school because I was a Jew. It could very well be that part of my porn career is an “up yours” to these people’. Al Goldstein, the publisher of Screw, said (on lukeford.net), ‘The only reason that Jews are in pornography is that we think that Christ sucks. Catholicism sucks. We don’t believe in authoritarianism.’ Pornography thus becomes a way of defiling Christian culture and, as it penetrates to the very heart of the American mainstream (and is no doubt consumed by those very same WASPs), its subversive character becomes more charged. Porn is no longer of the ‘what the Butler saw’ voyeuristic type; instead, it is driven to new extremes of portrayal that stretch the boundaries of the porn aesthetic. As new sexual positions are portrayed, the desire to shock (as well as entertain) seems clear.
    It is a case of the traditional revolutionary/radical drive of immigrant Jews in America being channelled into sexual rather than leftist politics. Just as Jews have been disproportionately represented in radical movements over the years, so they are also disproportionately represented in the porn industry. Jews in America have been sexual revolutionaries. A large amount of the material on sexual liberation was written by Jews. Those at the forefront of the movement which forced America to adopt a more liberal view of sex were Jewish. Jews were also at the vanguard of the sexual revolution of the 1960s. Wilhelm Reich, Herbert Marcuse and Paul Goodman replaced Marx, Trotsky and Lenin as required revolutionary reading. Reich’s central preoccupations were work, love and sex, while Marcuse prophesied that a socialist utopia would free individuals to achieve sexual satisfaction. Goodman wrote of the ‘beautiful cultural consequences’ that would follow from legalizing pornography: it would ‘ennoble all our art’ and ‘humanize sexuality’.
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  203. Tyrion 2 says:
    @annamaria
    You did not recognize your own words? -- "Having gays parading around the streets is distasteful. Throwing them off buildings as your lot are wont to do is horrific."
    Then I need to repost my text: "Iran is very-very bad, but when Israel has been killing children in Gaza Ghetto – oh, that’s Ok because Israelis are the giants of morality from your point of view.
    Don’t you like the Jewish Museum of Tolerance built, despite the vigorous protests from decent people, on the ancient Palestinian cemetery? How about the massive theft of Palestinian land? The Israel’s support for Daesh/ISIS because the Golan Heights?
    Considering the Kagans’ clan well-documented warmongering — and even an active and profitable collaboration of its member with the neo-Nazi in Ukraine — Jews should be rather more careful when judging other people. https://consortiumnews.com/2015/03/20/a-family-business-of-perpetual-war/
    The following links are about the rise of anti-semitism in Ukraine AFTER the victorious Revolution of Indecency, which was "arranged" by Nuland-Kagan and the CIA in cooperation with local neo-Nazis in 2014. So much for the memory of victims of the WWII, Tyrion 2?
    https://dninews.com/article/israel-notes-growth-anti-semitism-ukraine
    https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-more-anti-semitic-than-russia/25384493.html
    https://charlenecleoeiben54123.wordpress.com/2014/03/15/washington-fuels-rise-of-neo-nazism-and-anti-semitism-in-ukraine-the-role-of-john-mccain/
    Instead of hunting the senescent former Nazi guards, better take a look at the current supporters and collaborators with neo-Nazi both in Canada and the US. You cannot screech about Holocaust and, at the same time, see no evil in Nuland-Kagan’s endeavors in Kiev, as well as in Ledeen’s involvement in yellow cake forgery and Wolfowitz’, Kristol’, Krauthummer’ and such fanatical support for the supreme crimes of the wars of aggression in the Middle East. And don’t forget your own kapos."
    -- What was unclear in the above text for you? The neo-Nazi connections of the Kagans or the subhuman war-mongering of Israel-firsters in the US and UK?

    Obviously I meant “troll”. Stick your post is funny. And sad. Next time you begin to think that you may be quite crazy, go with that thought! Things could be better for you.

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    • Replies: @annamaria
    "Next time you begin to think that you may be quite crazy..."
    --- Relax. Your petty psychological attacks are of no value. You have been already caught on the ignorance re Islamic culture and on Muslimophobia. You also display cognitive neglect re the documented ziocon/Israeli crimes, because Israelis/Jews, for you, are superior beings. They are not – which is inconsolable for you.
    “Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?" Matthew 7:3-5
    The Arabs are your cousins. Learn how to live in peace with your blood relatives -- and on your own, please.
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  204. There’s a reason Muslims living in Israel proper—1.5 million of them—don’t migrate to the adjacent Palestinian Authority. They’re better off in Israel. Should Jerusalem, East and West, be recognized formally as the capital of Israel only, under Jewish control alone; Christianity’s holiest sites will be better off. Judaism’s holy sites will be safer. And so will Islam’s.

    No, it’s either-or. They want to obliterate Israel, period.

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  205. @anno nimus
    fellas, please show some respect when talking to a lady.
    the mob cries, give us Barabas!
    but we cry, let Your Kingdom come.

    fellas, please show some respect when talking to a lady.

    Even if the “lady” is an ignorant, intolerant, bigot?

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  206. @AaronB
    Sounds like you've a touch of the anarchyst in you, as do I :)

    The last great age of humanity was the egalitarian hunter-gatherer period - it's been downhill ever since.

    As for our current times, I just like to make our choices as starkly clear as possible to everyone - to contend for top dog position, whites have to become more evil. No use shirking this fact and dreaming of an "ethical" fight. That doesn't mean it wouldn't have to be presented as an ethical fight. That would be a necessary part of it.

    Being ethical means surrendering top dog position. Honesty about this is crucial.

    Once the choices are laid out, we must make our choices.

    For me, it's the merry woods and the mountain caves and the deserts, and the arts of subterfuge and evasion among men.

    Being ethical means surrendering top dog position. Honesty about this is crucial.

    Being ethical means surrendering top dog mentation as well.

    Only a few will ever be honest about it and I don’t believe that group honesty exists. It may not even be possible, but what do I know?

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  207. @Alden
    I know some Mizrahi Jews who left for California. They hate the European Jews. They claim the European jews treat them as badly as they treat the Palestinians. I don’t know how true that is, but that’s how some Mizrahi feel.

    Mizrahi Jews who left for California. They hate the European Jews. They claim the European jews treat them as badly as they treat the Palestinians.

    I’m no expert on that aspect of the subject, but Uri Avnery confirms something of the sort from time to time.

    I think one of their great “accomplishments” is to have selected themselves quite well for a “hatred” gene to go along with their paranoid, usurious and contempt ones. The people in question obviously can’t stand anyone, including themselves, and the Torah provides plenty of evidence as do the writings of Josephus and their actions today.

    The tribe is a sick clique but hey, “muh akkoplishmuntz”!!!!

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    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    For a description, in Israel, on how asjekenazi jews, those from E Europe, discriminate the sephardic ones,
    see
    Ralph Giordano, 'Israel um Himmels willen Israel', 1993 Köln
    Giordano is a German jewish journalist who toured Israel.
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  208. @Alden
    The subject of the article is not Muslim achievements but Trump’s moving the American embassy to Jerusalem.

    You are way off topic with your ridiculous attempt to bring Muslim dis function into the discussion.

    Stuck to the topic.

    You are way off topic with your ridiculous attempt to bring Muslim dis function into the discussion.

    It’s typical behavior to attempt to derail the conversation by any means possible.

    While they are attention seekers they typically try to shift attention away from their misbehavior and blame others for what themselves they do.

    Pickpocket tactics.

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  209. Qqqqq says:

    Awaywith those Abraham religions from Europe.
    They are notoriously deadly ideology.
    The best for the planet would be, if christians and moslems kill all jews and then kill each other up to the last individual.
    It would be the big big relieve for the planet.

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    • Troll: Twodees Partain
    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
    Typical green weenie comment, misspellings, inarticulate wording, and a call for slaughter of humanity.

    Why does your kind claim that all humans must die, except for you? I've never seen any of you volunteer for the dirt nap .
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  210. Bliss says:
    @Talha
    Hey Tyrion2,

    You consider us a knock-off, that idea was never entertained by us - we are far, far bigger than a Semitic narrative. Judaism is a (prominent) branch of Islam. Islam is the original package, it has come full circle, we are as old as mankind itself. We claim a spiritual connection and right to all of God's emissaries - all of them.

    You have opinions, we have them too.

    Like I mentioned before, we are under sacred obligation to recognize the rights of Christians and Jews to the city - they are under no similar obligation from their side. If you want to fight for it - don't waste our time trying to dissect our tradition through your own lens - just man up and say so...if you've been paying attention, there hasn't been a dance in that area that we've sat out; Byzantines, Latins, Mongols, etc. What's it worth to you? I mean in your own lives, not in the lives of Christians that you use as proxies...

    "O people, do not desire to meet the enemy, but rather ask Allah for security. If you meet your enemy in battle, then be patient and know that Paradise is under the shade of swords." - reported in Bukhari & Muslim

    Peace.

    Judaism is a (prominent) branch of Islam. Islam is the original package, it has come full circle, we are as old as mankind itself.

    What a load of laughable ass-backwards bullcrap. Who came first, Moses or Mohammad? How the hell can the imitation claim to be the original, you twisted brainwashed fool?

    “Old as mankind”? The pyramids of Egypt aren’t even as old as mankind and they precede Moses by around 1200 years and Mohammad by 3200 years.

    By the way, it makes more sense to see Judaism as an offshoot of the monotheistic Egyptian cult of the Pharaoh Akhenaten. Sigmund Freud, a Jew, wrote about in his book “Moses and Monotheism”.

    Note that the Torah/Old Testament and the Koran are written in Hebrew and Arabic respectively which are branches of the Afro-Asiatic family of languages of which the first written record is in ancient Egyptian. The practice of circumcision, an indispensable ritual in both Judaism and Islam, can also be traced back to Egypt. Ditto for the belief in bodily resurrection after death, in heaven or hell. Etc, etc

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    • Replies: @Talha

    Who came first, Moses or Mohammad?
     
    Adam (pbuh) of course...and Noah (pbuh)...

    "He has laid down for you as religion that which He charged Noah with, and that We have revealed to you, and that We charged Abraham with, Moses and Jesus: 'Perform the religion, and divide not regarding it'..." (42:13)

    We seem to disagree as to when Islam came into being. You insist it started with the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), we insist it was (in its present form) revived by him. That's fine, we can disagree; no need to resort to shrill name calling - we're adults here, we have handle differences in opinion.

    Man did those Egyptians own it or what??!! And the pyramids, dang - batting it out the park - like a champ!!! (said in my best Negan voice).
    , @jilles dykstra
    Barnenez in France is older than the piramids.
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  211. @Just me
    Wtf is this

    Exactly !

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  212. @Anonymous

    ... heads of the Christian Churches in the area already stated clearly that Jerusalem should retain international status:
     
    The heads of local churches will say whatever their violent Muslim neighbors tell them to say.

    They have thoroughly absorbed the lesson that you don't speak up against violent, supremacist Muslims.

    BTW Al-Quds is not really the "name" of Jerusalem in Arabic, but more like a moniker meaning "the Holy One."

    Israel should encourage Arabs to use the same moniker for Mecca and Medina.

    BTW Al-Quds is not really the “name” of Jerusalem in Arabic, but more like a moniker meaning “the Holy One.”

    Peace in English, Sholom in Hebrew and Salem or Salam in Arabic. Jerusalem is a moniker too, which means City of Peace in Arabic, and for this reason it is spelled as Jerusalem. In Hebrew it has to be spelled as Jerusholom. Get it.

    Just like the city called, Daralsalam in Brunei which is pronounced as Darassalam. Or Daralsalaam in Tanzania which is again pronounced as Daressalaam. Why? Because, the “s” in salem (salam, salaam) is a “sun” letter and not a “moon” letter.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_and_moon_letters

    Also, Dar means “city or door”. So, both cities in Brunei and Tanzania mean, “City of Peace” or “Door of Peace”. Very Muslim and Arabic names.

    The full name for al-Quds is “Bait al-Quds” or “Bait al-Mukadas” meaning, The House of Holy. Both “m” and “q” are “moon” letters.

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    • Replies: @mcohen
    Yerushalayim—more specifically, the Temple Mount—was the very spot where Abraham almost sacrificed his son Isaac. Look in the narrative there and you'll see that after he was told by an angel of G‑d not to sacrifice his beloved son, it reads:

    And so Abraham named that place "G‑d will see," as it is said to this day, "On the mountain, G‑d will be seen."2

    The Hebrew word for "will see" is yireh. That's the first half.

    Now, what was the city called before Abraham renamed it Yireh? To discover this, we need to backtrack a few chapters. After rescuing his relative, Lot, from captivity, we read how Abraham was greeted by "Malchizedek the king of Shalem," who greeted him with bread and wine.3 An ancient tradition tells us that Malchizedek was actually one and the same as Shem, son of Noah, and that Shalem was none other than the very place that Abraham would eventually rename Yireh. So Shalem is the second half: Yireh + Shalem = Yerushalayim.
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  213. @Tyrion 2

    Define high achievement.
     
    Going to the moon, building the internet, curing diseases, creating the novel, discovering DNA...

    The sophist asks the other to define the obvious in the forlorn hope that the other makes a small technical error so that the sophist can go back to their studied ignorance and pretend that the obvious does not exist.


    This is true and not true. They did, but not in those numbers. So you completely want to ignore the fact that thousands of Jews moved into Muslim lands and did fairly well there? There were no Jews that were taken into Abbasid or Mamluk or Ottoman territory after being expelled from other lands? Really?
     
    You're flogging a straw man. Jews tend to do fairly well wherever they turn up, just as Muslims tend to do fairly badly. This is the phenomena, especially the Muslim part, that we are discussing. It is the phenomena that would render great benefit were there an answer to why it almost always is. Now your turn...

    So you are completely unfamiliar with men like Khwarezmi, Biruni, Ibn al-Haytham, Ibn Rushd, etc.?We’re cool with that. What’s interesting is that under the mural of Civilizations at the Library of Congress; Islam is listed as the civilization that contributed “Physics”
     

    Yay, that a fifth of the globe contributed a handful of moderately interesting figures and that America in a fit of extremely generous and obviously wrong politically correct generosity allowed that fifth an achievement is your best argument...

    Surely your argument now rests mostly on American condescension?

    ” Jews tend to do fairly well wherever they turn up, just as Muslims tend to do fairly badly ”

    Never saw the remains of the water wheels near Cordoba, the mosque there, the most impressive building I ever saw, or the Alhambra in Seville ?

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    • Replies: @Alden
    They were built by Christian slaves.
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  214. @jacques sheete

    Mizrahi Jews who left for California. They hate the European Jews. They claim the European jews treat them as badly as they treat the Palestinians.
     
    I'm no expert on that aspect of the subject, but Uri Avnery confirms something of the sort from time to time.

    I think one of their great "accomplishments" is to have selected themselves quite well for a "hatred" gene to go along with their paranoid, usurious and contempt ones. The people in question obviously can't stand anyone, including themselves, and the Torah provides plenty of evidence as do the writings of Josephus and their actions today.

    The tribe is a sick clique but hey, "muh akkoplishmuntz"!!!!

    For a description, in Israel, on how asjekenazi jews, those from E Europe, discriminate the sephardic ones,
    see
    Ralph Giordano, ‘Israel um Himmels willen Israel’, 1993 Köln
    Giordano is a German jewish journalist who toured Israel.

    Read More
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  215. @Grahamsno(G64)
    Biff says:
    February 23, 2018 at 5:58 am GMT
    One has to stand back in awe of the greatest bullshit story ever told. The champion of false promises and exaggerated claims – Religion.

    It's a pity that Carlin's ferocious intelligence didn't comment on the greatest bullshit story ever told the HOLOCAUST - you know that story of the 'Sacred 6 million' who magically vanished without a trace that's right NOT A SINGLE BODY WAS EVER FOUND OF A GASSED VICTIM, NOT A SINGLE MASS GRAVE LIKE KATYN OR SREBENICA WAS EVER FOUND WHEN THERE HAD TO BE HUNDREDS UPON HUNDREDS OF KATYN OR SREBENICAS. This bullshit story doesn't end here we have the "MIRACULOUS COUPLE OF MILLIONS SURVIVORS' imagine that when we were told that Hitler murdered every Jew who he could lay his hands on. Add to that no historian has ever 'PRODUCED A PHOTO OR DRAWING OF A GAS CHAMBER NO HISTORIAN CAN PROVIDE A TECHNICAL REPORT OF THE INDUSTRIAL SCALE GASSINGS. It's utterly ridiculous to think that those 'PRIMITIVE HUTS' in Auschwitz could be used to gas millions! Compare these crude huts with an American gas chamber.

    The Holocaust should be studied as exhibit A in the abuse of history for propagandistic purposes . Goebbels would have been in awe of this myth.

    ” Compare these crude huts with an American gas chamber. ”

    Indeed, this was the idea of USA gas chamber builder Leuchter, after he had seen the Birkenau buildings, presented to the present day as gas chambers.
    Weird that the Birkenau guides never read
    Léon Poliakov, ‘Bréviaire de la Haine, Le IIIe Reich et les Juifs’, 1951, 1974, Paris
    Poliakov was present at the Neurenberg show, based on the ‘testimony’ given there he writes that the Auschwitz gas chambers were blown up by the Germans at the end of 1944, when the Red Army was approaching.
    On top of this, according to Poliakov, the gassings were in cellars.
    Elie Wiesel, who left there at the time, does not mention demolitions
    Elie Wiesel, ‘La Nuit’, 1958, 2007

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  216. Bliss says:
    @Tyrion 2
    We got here because I pointed out that Islam's supposed spiritual attachment to Jerusalem is a mere artefact of Islam's blundering plagiarism. I then expanded to point out that such ill-understanding and uncreative plagiarism does not only describe much of the origin of Islam but it also describes much of the output of Muslim 'culture'. This led me to ask why this was and if you agreed that this is a deep shame? You avoided the obvious and are now back to implying that because 1.6 billion want something, even if they don't understand it, then 1.6 billion should get it because they have a propensity to violence and tend to do nothing more productive. Which ironically provides a perfectly logical response to my previous question. So thank you for your answer! My next question is how are Muslims going to go about solving all of the problems in the many Muslim countries?

    Islam’s supposed spiritual attachment to Jerusalem is a mere artefact of Islam’s blundering plagiarism.

    Exactly. The original blunder was corrected by Almighty, All-Knowing Allah himself in the Koran (the ultimate authority in Islam) where he commands Mohammad to stop prostrating towards Jerusalem and instead start prostrating towards Mecca. And by the way, the Kaaba in Mecca at that time still contained all its idols and images.

    There is absolutely no religious justification for Muslim claims to a share of Jerusalem.

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    • Replies: @jacques sheete

    There is absolutely no religious justification for Muslim claims to a share of Jerusalem.

     

    Maybe not, but it certainly is entertaining to experience atheists justifying some whacko claim on the basis of some G-d someone cooked up to anoint them as his "chosen."

    What an "akkomplushment"!

    It's almost funny.
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  217. mcohen says:
    @Dan Herman

    BTW Al-Quds is not really the “name” of Jerusalem in Arabic, but more like a moniker meaning “the Holy One.”
     
    Peace in English, Sholom in Hebrew and Salem or Salam in Arabic. Jerusalem is a moniker too, which means City of Peace in Arabic, and for this reason it is spelled as Jerusalem. In Hebrew it has to be spelled as Jerusholom. Get it.

    Just like the city called, Daralsalam in Brunei which is pronounced as Darassalam. Or Daralsalaam in Tanzania which is again pronounced as Daressalaam. Why? Because, the "s" in salem (salam, salaam) is a "sun" letter and not a "moon" letter.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_and_moon_letters

    Also, Dar means "city or door". So, both cities in Brunei and Tanzania mean, "City of Peace" or "Door of Peace". Very Muslim and Arabic names.

    The full name for al-Quds is "Bait al-Quds" or "Bait al-Mukadas" meaning, The House of Holy. Both "m" and "q" are "moon" letters.

    Yerushalayim—more specifically, the Temple Mount—was the very spot where Abraham almost sacrificed his son Isaac. Look in the narrative there and you’ll see that after he was told by an angel of G‑d not to sacrifice his beloved son, it reads:

    And so Abraham named that place “G‑d will see,” as it is said to this day, “On the mountain, G‑d will be seen.”2

    The Hebrew word for “will see” is yireh. That’s the first half.

    Now, what was the city called before Abraham renamed it Yireh? To discover this, we need to backtrack a few chapters. After rescuing his relative, Lot, from captivity, we read how Abraham was greeted by “Malchizedek the king of Shalem,” who greeted him with bread and wine.3 An ancient tradition tells us that Malchizedek was actually one and the same as Shem, son of Noah, and that Shalem was none other than the very place that Abraham would eventually rename Yireh. So Shalem is the second half: Yireh + Shalem = Yerushalayim.

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    • Replies: @Dan Herman

    Yireh + Shalem = Yerushalayim.
     
    Loads of baloney, pastrami, salami....

    During Jesus time, the Bible didn't exist, only the five books (torah) of Moses existed and which didn't contain any vowels. Jesus spoke Aramaic to his disciples, as Hebrew was a deaaaad language.
    , @Dan Herman

    Yireh + Shalem = Yerushalayim.
     
    It is crunch time for Netanyahu as his wife's head is on the chopping block:

    Channel 10 News reported on Friday that police have WhatsApp chats between the prime minister's wife, Sara Netanyahu, and Elovitch's wife Iris, who is also under arrest.

    According to the report, the chat transcripts show Mrs. Netanyahu rebuking Mrs. Elovitch because Walla! News editor-in-chief Aviram Elad was not fired after another article she did not like.


    "This can't continue like this, I thought we had talked about this. This is going on for too long. Why do I need to read such things on your website? Do something about it," Sara Netanyahu wrote to Iris Elovitch.

    https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-5128665,00.html
     

    , @iffen
    Abraham would eventually rename Yireh. So Shalem is the second half: Yireh + Shalem = Yerushalayim.

    So this is how big money Jews came up with the idea of selling stadium naming rights. Makes sense now.
    , @Dan Herman

    Yireh + Shalem = Yerushalayim.
     
    70 years is a page in history.....

    Two more Russian topline Su-57 land in Syria to challenge US, Israeli air might

    Government sources in Moscow reported Saturday, Feb. 24, that four fifth-generation Sukhoi-57 jet fighters are currently deployed in Syria after a second pair landed Friday. The first two arrived on Monday, Feb. 19 at Russia’s Khmeimim air base, along with 4 Su-35 fighters, 4 Su-25 strike aircraft and an A-50U radar command-and-control platform.

    DEBKA file reported the first pair’s arrival on Friday, Feb. 23, along with this comment: This top-performance fleet raises Russia’s air strike and defense capabilities in Syria to the highest standards of any air force in the world, with enough power to take on superior US and Israeli air might in the Syrian arena.......

    The very presence of the Su-57 across the border has had the instant effect of reducing the Israel air force’s freedom of action over Syria and Lebanon. The landing of the Russian Sukhoi-57 in Syria and its dire implications were first revealed in the latest DEBKA Weekly 790.

    https://www.debka.com/russias-topline-su-57-deployed-syria-challenge-us-israeli-air-might/
     
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  218. @Grahamsno(G64)
    Biff says:
    February 23, 2018 at 5:58 am GMT
    One has to stand back in awe of the greatest bullshit story ever told. The champion of false promises and exaggerated claims – Religion.

    It's a pity that Carlin's ferocious intelligence didn't comment on the greatest bullshit story ever told the HOLOCAUST - you know that story of the 'Sacred 6 million' who magically vanished without a trace that's right NOT A SINGLE BODY WAS EVER FOUND OF A GASSED VICTIM, NOT A SINGLE MASS GRAVE LIKE KATYN OR SREBENICA WAS EVER FOUND WHEN THERE HAD TO BE HUNDREDS UPON HUNDREDS OF KATYN OR SREBENICAS. This bullshit story doesn't end here we have the "MIRACULOUS COUPLE OF MILLIONS SURVIVORS' imagine that when we were told that Hitler murdered every Jew who he could lay his hands on. Add to that no historian has ever 'PRODUCED A PHOTO OR DRAWING OF A GAS CHAMBER NO HISTORIAN CAN PROVIDE A TECHNICAL REPORT OF THE INDUSTRIAL SCALE GASSINGS. It's utterly ridiculous to think that those 'PRIMITIVE HUTS' in Auschwitz could be used to gas millions! Compare these crude huts with an American gas chamber.

    The Holocaust should be studied as exhibit A in the abuse of history for propagandistic purposes . Goebbels would have been in awe of this myth.

    The Holocaust should be studied as exhibit A in the abuse of history for propagandistic purposes .

    True.

    The troll who extols the “akkomplushments” is probably referring to that or 9/11 or the like. Even I have to admit that they really accomplished something by pulling such gags on us dumb goyim.

    Goebbels would have been in awe of this myth.

    There can be no doubt that he was in awe of the big lie. The Nazis were propaganda pikers compared with the Brits, the Reds, and the Zionists, all of whom had a lot more experience and expertise with propaganda than Germany could ever dream of.

    In fact, one of the more stunning accomplishments of the tribe was to sell the nonsensical and perverted idea that the biggest propagandists were the Nazis, a false claim that even persists to this day, while the Brit, Red and Zio propagandists remain almost completely unknown to the masses.

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  219. annamaria says:
    @Tyrion 2
    Obviously I meant "troll". Stick your post is funny. And sad. Next time you begin to think that you may be quite crazy, go with that thought! Things could be better for you.

    “Next time you begin to think that you may be quite crazy…”
    — Relax. Your petty psychological attacks are of no value. You have been already caught on the ignorance re Islamic culture and on Muslimophobia. You also display cognitive neglect re the documented ziocon/Israeli crimes, because Israelis/Jews, for you, are superior beings. They are not – which is inconsolable for you.
    “Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?” Matthew 7:3-5
    The Arabs are your cousins. Learn how to live in peace with your blood relatives — and on your own, please.

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    • Replies: @Dan Herman

    The Arabs are your cousins. Learn how to live in peace with your blood relatives — and on your own, please.
     
    What beautiful speech....

    God bless you!
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  220. @Tyrion 2
    Unfortunately demographics had already sealed Lebanon's fate long before Israel was persuaded to intervene in order to stop the malfeasance of Palestinian groups. Demographics had been shifting for a century as the French had expanded the borders when they took over from the Ottomans. This led to Christians and Druze dwindling as a proportion of the population.

    As a matter of clear historical record, Southern Lebanese threw rice at the incoming Israelis to welcome them. Unfortunately for Israel, mission creep meant they long overstayed and the interventiom turned sour. Lebanese may often blame Israel for the Palestinians ending up in Lebanon amd causing so much trouble but that is as much implied sympathy to Israel's situation as it is looking for a scapegoat.

    As a matter of clear historical record, Southern Lebanese threw rice at the incoming Israelis to welcome them.

    The Nazis also enjoyed similar receptions. A big difference is that the Nazis probably never intended to betray those who welcomed them and that they likely intended to liberate and protect them from the crackpot Reds.

    And we should all know who/what were responsible for the “permanent world revolution” Red supremacist movement.

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  221. Is it that the prisons are full of converts to Judaism or is it that the prisons are full of refined and sophisticated Europeans?

    Depends on where they’re located.

    The prisons in Israel are probably full with people, even children, who don’t bow before their sadistic Izzy masters.

    In the US the prisons are often a “for profit” enterprise and we all know who/ what’s “akkomplushed” at profit and control, don’t we?

    Also, US prisons are notorious for being filled with drug offenders, and we all know which mafia groups profit from the illegal drug trade, don’t we?

    Abu Ghraib was probably a neocon profit and sadism thriller center as well. We all know, don’t we, where neocon sentiments lie…

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  222. Talha says:
    @Bliss

    Judaism is a (prominent) branch of Islam. Islam is the original package, it has come full circle, we are as old as mankind itself.
     
    What a load of laughable ass-backwards bullcrap. Who came first, Moses or Mohammad? How the hell can the imitation claim to be the original, you twisted brainwashed fool?

    “Old as mankind”? The pyramids of Egypt aren’t even as old as mankind and they precede Moses by around 1200 years and Mohammad by 3200 years.

    By the way, it makes more sense to see Judaism as an offshoot of the monotheistic Egyptian cult of the Pharaoh Akhenaten. Sigmund Freud, a Jew, wrote about in his book “Moses and Monotheism”.

    Note that the Torah/Old Testament and the Koran are written in Hebrew and Arabic respectively which are branches of the Afro-Asiatic family of languages of which the first written record is in ancient Egyptian. The practice of circumcision, an indispensable ritual in both Judaism and Islam, can also be traced back to Egypt. Ditto for the belief in bodily resurrection after death, in heaven or hell. Etc, etc

    Who came first, Moses or Mohammad?

    Adam (pbuh) of course…and Noah (pbuh)…

    “He has laid down for you as religion that which He charged Noah with, and that We have revealed to you, and that We charged Abraham with, Moses and Jesus: ‘Perform the religion, and divide not regarding it’…” (42:13)

    We seem to disagree as to when Islam came into being. You insist it started with the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), we insist it was (in its present form) revived by him. That’s fine, we can disagree; no need to resort to shrill name calling – we’re adults here, we have handle differences in opinion.

    Man did those Egyptians own it or what??!! And the pyramids, dang – batting it out the park – like a champ!!! (said in my best Negan voice).

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    • Replies: @jacques sheete

    ...we’re adults here, we have handle differences in opinion.
     
    talha, I have great respect for and admire you and your opinions, but I have to ask whether you know who you're addressing there.

    No doubt you're aware, but must have momentarily forgotten, that biological adults can, and often do, have severe maturity deficits when it comes to psychological and spiritual development.

    Permanently stunted emotional behavior (psychological infantilism) seems to be a common trait of the chosen ones.

    It goes something like this.:


    “Laziness and cowardice are the reasons why so great a proportion of men, long after nature has released them from alien guidance (natura-liter maiorennes), nonetheless gladly remain in lifelong immaturity, and why it is so easy for others to establish themselves as their guardians. It is so easy to be immature.”

    IMMANUEL KANT
    An Answer to the Question:
    What is Enlightenment? (1784)


    http://www.columbia.edu/acis/ets/CCREAD/etscc/kant.html


     

    Also, neoteny (persistent juvenility) is a known characteristic of some animals, particularly amphibians, and probably certain reptiles, I think. It certainly helps explain the easily brainwashed trolls we encounter all too frequently. We could also label it psychological pedomorphism, nutcase nonage, and a whole host of other things.
    , @Bliss

    Adam (pbuh) of course…and Noah (pbuh)…
     
    And where are the stories of Adam and Noah (and Abraham and Moses) found first? The Torah or the Koran?
    , @jilles dykstra
    There is no evidence whatsoever that Moses ever existed, the first book that argued that Jesus never existed appeared in Germany around 1850.
    The books, there are more, argue that the stories about Jesus diverge too much.
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  223. @Bliss

    Islam’s supposed spiritual attachment to Jerusalem is a mere artefact of Islam’s blundering plagiarism.
     
    Exactly. The original blunder was corrected by Almighty, All-Knowing Allah himself in the Koran (the ultimate authority in Islam) where he commands Mohammad to stop prostrating towards Jerusalem and instead start prostrating towards Mecca. And by the way, the Kaaba in Mecca at that time still contained all its idols and images.

    There is absolutely no religious justification for Muslim claims to a share of Jerusalem.

    There is absolutely no religious justification for Muslim claims to a share of Jerusalem.

    Maybe not, but it certainly is entertaining to experience atheists justifying some whacko claim on the basis of some G-d someone cooked up to anoint them as his “chosen.”

    What an “akkomplushment”!

    It’s almost funny.

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  224. anon • Disclaimer says:
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  225. Well?
    Concerning Muslim culture.
    If you read one story of thousand and one nights You have read all three volumes.
    No offense intended, but very simplistic

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  226. @Talha

    Who came first, Moses or Mohammad?
     
    Adam (pbuh) of course...and Noah (pbuh)...

    "He has laid down for you as religion that which He charged Noah with, and that We have revealed to you, and that We charged Abraham with, Moses and Jesus: 'Perform the religion, and divide not regarding it'..." (42:13)

    We seem to disagree as to when Islam came into being. You insist it started with the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), we insist it was (in its present form) revived by him. That's fine, we can disagree; no need to resort to shrill name calling - we're adults here, we have handle differences in opinion.

    Man did those Egyptians own it or what??!! And the pyramids, dang - batting it out the park - like a champ!!! (said in my best Negan voice).

    …we’re adults here, we have handle differences in opinion.

    talha, I have great respect for and admire you and your opinions, but I have to ask whether you know who you’re addressing there.

    No doubt you’re aware, but must have momentarily forgotten, that biological adults can, and often do, have severe maturity deficits when it comes to psychological and spiritual development.

    Permanently stunted emotional behavior (psychological infantilism) seems to be a common trait of the chosen ones.

    It goes something like this.:

    “Laziness and cowardice are the reasons why so great a proportion of men, long after nature has released them from alien guidance (natura-liter maiorennes), nonetheless gladly remain in lifelong immaturity, and why it is so easy for others to establish themselves as their guardians. It is so easy to be immature.”

    IMMANUEL KANT
    An Answer to the Question:
    What is Enlightenment? (1784)

    http://www.columbia.edu/acis/ets/CCREAD/etscc/kant.html

    Also, neoteny (persistent juvenility) is a known characteristic of some animals, particularly amphibians, and probably certain reptiles, I think. It certainly helps explain the easily brainwashed trolls we encounter all too frequently. We could also label it psychological pedomorphism, nutcase nonage, and a whole host of other things.

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  227. AaronB says:
    @Tyrion 2

    So it seems cultured European opinion really reacted to Judaism and Islam in completely opposite ways, and it was more than just a failure to find Judaism appealing.
     
    Looking at the very few European converts to Islam that don't do it in prison, it seems that a large percentage are closeted homosexuals who historically took to Islam to have free reign of the numerous boy markets that Muslim countries have traditionally kept.

    Naturally, those closeted individuals are occasionally also interesting people, but, for the most part, they merely seem to have idenfitied a certain homoeroticism in Sunni Muslim culture and decided they wanted in on it.

    The whole widely admitted and long-established phenomena is quite confusing. I suppose it relates to the Jungian idea of The Shadow. I don't really care enough to investigate though, even while recognising that this archetype is clearly hugely active in this comment thread. Mostly because I imagine that these thoughts will mostly just go whoosh over their heads.

    Yes, I’m sure that’s it Tyrion :)

    Look, theres no need to be so defensive – I’m not really insulting Jews. You’re taking this way too personally.

    I like understanding reality – one of the first things everyone has commented about Jews is that they are unusually rich but have no culture or sophistication or beauty – it’s not me, this seems to be the consensus of European intellectuals for centuries. Don’t get angry at me!

    What interests me is, maybe by specializing in wealth acquisition, Jews had to neglect beauty and culture and the like? Maybe that accounts for the peculiar ugliness that so many have observed about Jewish life?

    Probably the FIRST thing one notices about Ashkenazi Jews after the wealth is a certain peculiar physical ugliness – not universal, but widespread – and a corresponding absence of beauty and culture in their social life. The only religion with no art – that must have some connection to the widespread physical ungainliness of Ashkenazim and is a wider question worth exploring.

    It’s an interesting hypothesis and worth examining if you are able to suspend your emotional sensitivities for a moment. You need a certain amount of emotional detachment that excitable Ashkenazim are not noted for.

    It’s not ‘against’ Jews – it’s sociology and it’s ultimately hopeful.

    Maybe the tragic seperation of Ashkenazi Jews from beauty, poetry, and imagination, the “soul”, and even the body, can be redeemed?

    In Israel, as you know, the physical ugliness of the Ashkenazim is somewhat softening as they marry with the Sephardim, who aren’t wealthy but who are physically healthy and good looking.

    And maybe the peculiar harshness and drabness of Ashkenazi life can similarly find redemption through engagement with cultures that have beauty.

    Extreme specialization, in this case toward money acquisition, will produce grotesqueries and deformities – it’s natural.

    Now, can you put aside your defensiveness and excitability for a moment to consider this?

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    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
    Take your concern troll spiel elsewhere. You obviously know nothing about (high culture), nor Islam nor Judaism. I stand by my previous post. It obviously is it. Your reaction tells me everything.

    As for your 'point' about Christians and Muslims not admiring Jewish culture, that's (intepreted in the kindest possible way) like stating that the