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In Africa, You Oust A Tyrant, But Not Tyranny
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READERS were angry. I had rained on their parade by venturing that the appointment of a new party boss to head South-Africa’s dominant party was an insignificant game of musical chairs.

But perhaps it is I who should have been annoyed. Nobody with a modicum of cerebral agility should see in the new South-African Strong Man, union boss-cum-tycoon Cyril Ramaphosa, a significant change of the guard.

Surely by now it should be common knowledge that in Africa, you replace a despot, but not despotism; you oust a tyrant, but not tyranny?

There’s a reason Ramaphosa riles crowds at a South African Communist Party rally just as easily as he excites the head of Goldman Sachs’s South Africa office. (For a clue, ask yourselves how a union boss becomes a tycoon.)

In the tradition of dimming debate, the chattering class has reduced systemic corruption in South Africa and near collapse in Zimbabwe, respectively, to the shenanigans of two men: Jacob Zuma and Robert Mugabe.

Emblematic of this is a thematically confused article in The Economist, offering a description of the dynamics set in motion by the Zuma dynasty’s capture of the state.

At first, the magazine explains the concept of “state capture” as “private actors [having] subverted the state to steal public money.”

Later, the concept is more candidly refined: “The nub of the state capture argument is that Mr. Zuma and his friends are putting state-owned enterprises and other governmental institutions in the hands of people who are allowing them to loot public funds.”

Indeed. Corruption invariably flows from state to society.

And, “state capture” is quite common across Africa, even if “unfamiliar elsewhere in the world,” which is all the “context” The Economist iswilling to provide.

“To avoid a dire, two-decade dynasty of dysfunction, South Africa’s ruling African National Congress should ditch the Zumas,” the magazine concludes.

That’s it? If only.

The Corruption of South Africa,” courtesy of The Economist, hurtles between being an excellent exposé, yet providing nothing more than reportorial reductionism.

Continental context, if you will, is essential if one is to shed light on the “Dark Continent.”

To wit, elections across Africa have traditionally followed a familiar pattern: Radical black nationalist movements like the ANC take power everywhere, then elections cease. “One man, one vote, one time,” to quote the book, “Into the Cannibal’s Pot: Lessons for America From Post-Apartheid South Africa.” Or, if they take place, as they do in South Africa, they’re rigged, in a manner.

For a prerequisite for a half-decent liberal democracy is that majority and minority status be interchangeable and fluid, and that a ruling majority party (the ANC) be as likely to become a minority party as the opposition Democratic Alliance (DA). In South Africa, however, the majority and the minorities are politically permanent, not temporary, and voting along racial lines is the rule.

So, as the dictator Mugabe hung on to power for dear life, reasonable people were being persuaded by the pulp and pixel press that if not for this one megalomaniac, freedom would have flourished in Zimbabwe, as it has, presumably, in Angola, Congo, Congo-Brazzaville, Ethiopia, Eritrea, Liberia, Sierra Leone, Somalia, Sudan, and the rest of strife-torn Africa south of the Sahara.

Reasonable people are also expected to infer from permissible analysis that now that Mugabe has been dislodged, his successor will not deign to commandeer the state’s security forces to subdue his opposition as his predecessor had done.

The pundit peanut gallery’s latest imperfect messiah in Zimbabwe is Emmerson Mnangagwa. His rickety political plank will promise indubitably what the majority of Zimbabweans want, including “equitable” land reform. A euphemism for land distribution in the Mugabe mold, this concept is anathema to private property rights.

Does Mnangagwa grasp that his country is bankrupt and that, unlike the mighty USA, Zimbabwe has no line of credit? Or that, as the great American writer Henry Hazlitt put it, “Government has nothing to give to anybody that it doesn’t first take from somebody else.” Or, that there are precious few left in Zimbabwe from whom to take?

The shortages and queues, courtesy of communism, exist in Zimbabwe as they did in the Soviet Union. Jokes from Hammer & Tickle, a book of black humor under Red rule, are not out of place in Zimbabwe:

“The problem of queues will be solved when we reach full Communism. How come? There will be nothing left to queue up for.”

Contrary to convictions in the West, any improvement experienced subsequent to the dethroning of the dictator Mugabe will be due to the West’s renewed investment in Zimbabwe and not to the changing of the guard.

For even if Mr. Mnangagwa proves no dictator-in-waiting, there is nothing in his political platform to indicate he will not continue to rob Peter to pay Paul until there is nobody left to rob.

Seemingly absent from the repertoire of both Mr. Mnangagwa and Ramaphosa is an understanding that only the rule of law and the protection of individual liberties, especially private property rights—for wealth-creating whites as well—can begin to reduce the dizzying scale of the two countries’ problems. Without these building blocks and bulwarks of prosperity and peace—Zimbabwe and South African cannot be rehabilitated.

The seductive narrative about the ANC’s new boss, Cyril Ramaphosa, gets this much right: There is nothing new about the meaningless game of musical chairs enacted throughout Africa like clockwork. The Big Man is overthrown or demoted; another Alpha Male jockeys his way into his predecessor’s position and asserts his primacy over the people and their property.

Mobutu Sese Seko ruled Zaïre ruthlessly, only to be overthrown by Laurent Kabila. Under Kabila nothing changed except Zaïre’s name; it became the Democratic Republic of the Congo.

ORDER IT NOW

Sandwiched between Nigeria’s Strongman Sani Abacha and Olusegun Obasanjo was one more general. Then military rule was abolished and Umaru Yar’Adua elected. Yar’Adua died in May 2010. Two others have come and one has gone since, but ethnic violence continues unabated; instead of extracting oil from the earth, Nigeria’s factions quarrel and kill over crude.

Kenya’s President Mwai Kibaki was opposed by one Raila Odinga. The latter is of the Kalenjin clan; the former of the Kikuyu. Even in one of Africa’s success stories it all comes down to tribal rivalries. A coalition was finally formed after Kenyan blood was spilled, and public office was soon being scavenged by two thieves and their gangs, instead of one. Last I checked, Uhuru Kenyatta had risen to rule, and Raila Odinga, the more progressive-minded Kenyan, had been locked out in an election declared invalid by the Kenyan Supreme Court.

The legendary Kenneth Kaunda oversaw the transition from a one-party state to the multi-party Zambia. But once the new Big Man on the block, Frederick Chiluba, was faced with an election, he banned the opposition parties—and Kaunda.

In Côte D’Ivoire, stability ended with Félix Houphouët-Boigny’s reign, after which a succession of leaders has consolidated power by siccing Christians onto Muslims.

While General Yoweri Museveni, president of Uganda, has allowed some traditional institutions to make a comeback, he conducts massacres against the aspiring kingdom of the Bakonzo, in the West. In league with Rwandans, Museveni preys on the Congolese. Another Homie who has pride of place in Uganda is Joseph Kony, leader of the Lord’s Resistance Army. The LRA is in the business of … butchering and enslaving its countrymen.

The reputation of the Janjaweed militia of Sudan precedes it. Epic as well is the corruption that has been visited upon Angolans by their gilded elites. A new president has finally usurped José Eduardo dos Santos, after his 38 years in power. The new guy is busy … driving out “his predecessor’s clan,” and ensconcing his own.

Good news came when Zambians, under leader Rupiah Bwezani Banda, were no longer dying in large numbers through ethnic clashes. The bad news was that they began dying in large numbers from hunger, instead.

“Even when regimes have changed hands, new governments, whatever promises they made on arrival, have lost little time in adopting the habits of their predecessors,” observed historian Martin Meredith, in The State of Africa (2005).

One can only hope that Zimbabwe’s new leader measures up to Zambia’s relatively, and commendably, benign Levy Mwanawasa, Banda’s predecessor, who died in 2008.

Of the forty-four countries of sub-Saharan Africa, The Economist’s democracy index lists twenty-three as authoritarian and thirteen as hybrids. Only seven, including South Africa, hold notionally free elections. Only two, South Africa and Botswana, did Meredith single out as relatively well-managed African democracies. And that was back in 2005!

Propounded by Duke University scholar Donald L. Horowitz, the arguments against democracy for South Africa, in particular, have considerable force. Finely attuned to “important currents in South African thought,” Horowitz offered up an excruciatingly detailed analysis of South Africa’s constitutional options.

In A Democratic South Africa?: Constitutional Engineering in a Divided Society (1991), Horowitz concluded that democracy is, in general, unusual in Africa, and, in particular, rare in ethnically and racially divided societies, where majorities and minorities are rigidly predetermined (also the dispensation presently being cultivated by craven American elites).

Prone to seeing faces in the clouds, the West, however, sees Sideshow Bob Mugabe’s epic villainy and Jacob Zuma’s confederacy of state-capturing knaves as nothing but a detail of history.

Lost in the din is the historically predictable pattern. Chaotic countries are hardly an anomaly in the annals of Africa south of the Sahara.

Ilana Mercer has been writing a paleolibertarian column since 1999, and is the author of The Trump Revolution: The Donald’s Creative Destruction Deconstructed (June, 2016) & Into the Cannibal’s Pot: Lessons for America From Post-Apartheid South Africa (2011). Follow her on Twitter, Facebook,Gab & YouTube.

 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: Africa, Corruption, South Africa 
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  1. neutral says:

    Horowitz concluded that democracy is, in general, unusual in Africa, and, in particular, rare in ethnically and racially divided societies, where majorities and minorities are rigidly predetermined

    The US political system is already this now, and much of Europe will very shortly follow this trend where democracy is only a function of racial demographic numbers.

    As for Ramaphosa, I agree with the author here, there is not going to be much of a difference between him and Zuma.

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  2. Red Robbo says:

    Oh no, not again! Remember Marikana! The election of the ANC to power was supposed to see the grinding poverty of the townships ended, but Mandela, Mbeki and Zuma have turned out to be powerless to run capitalism in a way that would end exploitation and poverty. Mbeki is responsible for the premature deaths of up to 365,000 AIDS victims. King Zuma has the Marikana massacre and a palace to his name. All three South-African Presidents supported the dictator Mugabe. South Africa is the most unequal society in the world – economic apartheid persists for millions.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Fredrik
    ANC never intended to change this.

    This was always only about enriching oneself.

    The flipside of that coin is that talk of racial animosity or genocide is exaggerated. Sure, bad things happen but even the ANC themselves admit this is due to the nature of the African. There's no plan...
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  3. Gene Su says:

    Ms. Mercer: I’d like to ask you a question.
    I remember reading the Godfather in my college years. Yes, I read Mario Puzo’s novel long before I saw the movie. One of the chapters talked about corrupt cops. It noted that many cops would get tired and annoyed at their beats after a few years from having to deal with an ungrateful public. They would not feel any shame at supplementing their income with bribes to ignore gambling or graft or similar minor crimes. They would, however, bulk at taking bribes for more serious crimes like murder and drugs. The typical cop has a “moral line in the sand” they simply would not cross.

    Would you say that part of the problem with the typical African is that he has no such “moral line in the sand”?

    Keith Richburg noted that politics in Africa is seen as a spoils game and only as a spoils game. I know many people know the joke about the Asian politician who stole 10% on a bridge he was supposed to build and the African politician who stole 100% on the bridge he didn’t build.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jake
    I would say it is even worse than there being no line in the sand for the vast majority of black Africans (and a huge number of blacks around the globe). It is that most blacks will not truly accept a Leader unless that leader proves his right to rule with brutality, including brutality that is beyond the bounds of logic.

    The Big Man proves his Big Man status with amoral brutality.
    , @Carroll Price
    The bribery/spoils system is so engrained in black culture, until it's virtually impossible to eliminate it. But the really sad part is that rather than stand aside allow black Africa to return to it's normal and natural state, liberal do-gooders keep tying to accomplish the impossible.
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  4. Bayan says:

    Reasonable article.

    But I think South Africa has the democratic framework and experience that they will be able to make corrections and move forward. It will be struggle, but winnable.

    Most of the rest of Africa has difficulty embarking on the right road.

    What are the solutions? Hope Ilana’s next article will be on solutions as she sees them.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Verymuchalive
    I don't know what you're on, but you need to get off it.
    South African whites provide nearly 80% of income tax. Once enough Whites leave, the economy will collapse, as in Zimbabwe. It's only a matter of time.
    , @Gene Su
    I think you are being overly optimistic. As Ms. Mercer, Mr, Richburg, and many other similar foreign commentators have noted, what black Africans need to create for themselves is not democracy but the rule of law. It has to adopt for itself the habits, customs, and, yes, morals, of Western civilization (before cultural Marxism infected it). Black Africans need to adopt all these without the coercion of the white man. The basis of our civilization did not come from the American Constitution or the English Magna Carta but the Jewish Ten Commandments and Hammurabi's Code of Law. Our civilization did not come about in decades or centuries but over many millennium. I'm not a racialist. I'm a culturalist.

    I am very doubtful of the graph that the worldwide black population will shoot upward exponentially in the next few decades. If Europe and the United States pulls the plug on the charities that feed the African, the worldwide black population will level off. If tribal wars intensify all over Africa, they might succeed into hunting one another into extinction. Perhaps after such a conflict, the exhausted black population might begin to see reason.
    , @Jake
    The only 'solution' is not to spread the contagion, which means quarantine until such time as those inside the quarantine have successfully corrected the contagion.

    Money tossed - even with the most sincere heart of charity - makes the contagion worse. Migration away from the contagion hot zones spreads the contagion.
    , @Wally
    Face up to the facts. Africa always has been and always will be utterly hopeless.
    There general IQ levels are to low to expect any productive change.
    Colonialism was the best thing that ever happened to them.

    In practically every instance where blacks are in great numbers, control the governments of cities, counties, regions, states, countries, & continents we see:

    massive murder rates
    massive crime in general
    degraded property
    massive disease, especially STDs
    massive drug abuse
    general filth, squalor
    massive, unable to support their own children, birthrates
    massive youth pregnancies rates
    massive school dropout rates
    incredibly low IQs & test scores
    violence as a way of life
    fathers nowhere to be found

    , @Carroll Price
    Another naïve idiot.
    , @Ed
    Really? Feel like South Africa is on the cusp of imploding. I watched this Netflix documentary series where some British black guy goes around the world reporting. He visited some hospital in suburban CapeTown dominated by blacks. The hospital there, fairly new sees 100s of knife victims every weekend. It’s so bad it’s become something of a global Mecca for young doctors who want trauma training.

    In the rest of Africa the blacks are surrounded by misery and poverty but in SA they’re so closed to modern living but can’t access. They’ll blame whites. The middle class blacks not a particurly enterprising group will feed into it to capture more of the state and get a head start on expropriation.
    , @fnn
    More not very encouraging news from South Africa:
    http://freewestmedia.com/2017/12/23/south-african-blacks-burn-trains-at-alarming-rate/

    South African blacks burn trains at alarming rate

    Black commuters in South Africa have a long history of burning trains and rioting in stations, often on the flimsiest of pretexts.
     

    The newly appointed CEO of the Passenger Rail Agency of South Africa (PRASA), Cromet Molepo, said on radio last week that his organisation was “losing 80 coaches per week due to arson and vandalism”. Not only is PRASA in a crisis due to corruption and financial mismanagement, but its mainly black passengers are also attacking trains in an astonishing display of destructive rage.

    On 9 May this year, the country’s president Jacob Zuma, appealed to commuters not to burn trains. “We have experienced shocking incidents in this country where people burn trains because they arrived late at the station and made them late for work. That is too drastic and is totally unacceptable. As we hand over such infrastructure, we appeal to our people to handle it with care. These are your trains. Look after them so that they can carry you for many years to come.”
     
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  5. @Bayan
    Reasonable article.

    But I think South Africa has the democratic framework and experience that they will be able to make corrections and move forward. It will be struggle, but winnable.

    Most of the rest of Africa has difficulty embarking on the right road.

    What are the solutions? Hope Ilana's next article will be on solutions as she sees them.

    I don’t know what you’re on, but you need to get off it.
    South African whites provide nearly 80% of income tax. Once enough Whites leave, the economy will collapse, as in Zimbabwe. It’s only a matter of time.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Maj. Kong
    On the contrary, millions of left-wing whites from the West should move to South Africa. Leftists are always going on and on about how we must "check our privilege". Time to put their money where their mouth is.
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  6. Gene Su says:
    @Bayan
    Reasonable article.

    But I think South Africa has the democratic framework and experience that they will be able to make corrections and move forward. It will be struggle, but winnable.

    Most of the rest of Africa has difficulty embarking on the right road.

    What are the solutions? Hope Ilana's next article will be on solutions as she sees them.

    I think you are being overly optimistic. As Ms. Mercer, Mr, Richburg, and many other similar foreign commentators have noted, what black Africans need to create for themselves is not democracy but the rule of law. It has to adopt for itself the habits, customs, and, yes, morals, of Western civilization (before cultural Marxism infected it). Black Africans need to adopt all these without the coercion of the white man. The basis of our civilization did not come from the American Constitution or the English Magna Carta but the Jewish Ten Commandments and Hammurabi’s Code of Law. Our civilization did not come about in decades or centuries but over many millennium. I’m not a racialist. I’m a culturalist.

    I am very doubtful of the graph that the worldwide black population will shoot upward exponentially in the next few decades. If Europe and the United States pulls the plug on the charities that feed the African, the worldwide black population will level off. If tribal wars intensify all over Africa, they might succeed into hunting one another into extinction. Perhaps after such a conflict, the exhausted black population might begin to see reason.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mis(ter)Anthrope
    "Perhaps after such a conflict, the exhausted black population might begin to see reason."

    No offense, but I think you are also being overly optimistic. I don't think the black population has the mental capability of seeing reason.
    , @Bayan
    Agree, culture is important.

    You can develop it locally or borrow from others. It need not be Jewish or Babylonian. The Greeks built their democracy on the basis of their own culture. There will always be some borrowing, but I think what you produce locally is the most important part.
    , @Rosamond Vincy
    There are no "charities that feed the African." There are charities that go into the tyrants' pockets, and the poor people never see any of it, unless you hand it directly to them. And you'd better do that secretly, or the government will want its cut.
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  7. @Gene Su
    I think you are being overly optimistic. As Ms. Mercer, Mr, Richburg, and many other similar foreign commentators have noted, what black Africans need to create for themselves is not democracy but the rule of law. It has to adopt for itself the habits, customs, and, yes, morals, of Western civilization (before cultural Marxism infected it). Black Africans need to adopt all these without the coercion of the white man. The basis of our civilization did not come from the American Constitution or the English Magna Carta but the Jewish Ten Commandments and Hammurabi's Code of Law. Our civilization did not come about in decades or centuries but over many millennium. I'm not a racialist. I'm a culturalist.

    I am very doubtful of the graph that the worldwide black population will shoot upward exponentially in the next few decades. If Europe and the United States pulls the plug on the charities that feed the African, the worldwide black population will level off. If tribal wars intensify all over Africa, they might succeed into hunting one another into extinction. Perhaps after such a conflict, the exhausted black population might begin to see reason.

    “Perhaps after such a conflict, the exhausted black population might begin to see reason.”

    No offense, but I think you are also being overly optimistic. I don’t think the black population has the mental capability of seeing reason.

    Read More
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  8. Maj. Kong says:
    @Verymuchalive
    I don't know what you're on, but you need to get off it.
    South African whites provide nearly 80% of income tax. Once enough Whites leave, the economy will collapse, as in Zimbabwe. It's only a matter of time.

    On the contrary, millions of left-wing whites from the West should move to South Africa. Leftists are always going on and on about how we must “check our privilege”. Time to put their money where their mouth is.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Carroll Price
    Yes. Just think of the glorious opportunity leftist like Madonna and Rosie McDonald (to name only two of the idiots) are missing to leave and re-locate to Communist-run South Africa to prove the superiority of black leadership.
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  9. And, “state capture” is quite common across Africa, even if “unfamiliar elsewhere in the world,” …. says The Economist.

    This Rothschild-owned rag cannot admit that “state capture” (by banking interests) is the norm in the west also.

    Read More
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  10. B Sampson says:

    a lunatic article and lunatic commentary..nothing but blind prejudice from start to finish.

    this here is so incredibly stupid that it shocks and forces a response. and the UNZ review gets away with stuff like this…or is this its forte’, its reason for being?

    Read More
    • LOL: CK
    • Replies: @JimH
    Behold - the obligatory umbrage of the privileged commentator.

    Either a member of the WaBenzi or an English-speaking 'liberal' who works for a S African uni. or paper.
    , @Jake
    Leftists love social engineering, at least when the 'experiments' destroy some white Christian society. I suggest we have a social experiment to prove the equality, even superiority, of the Numinous Negro.

    Let's steal all property from whites in South Africa. They just have it all - every acre, every small house, every business, every bank account - taken to be redistributed to blacks. Then let's remove the white poison totally - all whites expelled from South Africa. They will be made even more discombobulated by being sent to non-English-speaking countries: France, Spain, Portugal, Italy, Belgium, Austria, Poland.

    And those whites being sent to Europe will be swapped for native Africans, or children of native Africans, who now live in those countries. For example, if 100,000 whites who now live in SA are sent to Poland, 100,000 blacks in Poland will be sent to SA.

    Then we end all immigration for 20 years, after which we study the results.

    And we can do something similar in the US, but with states. The wealthiest states per capita are CT and NJ. Let's forcibly remove all whites from those states. Let's add to CT's size by eliminating the state of RI, and forcibly removing all its whites, and making RI part of CT. Each white forced out of those rich states will be replaced with a black from a poor state: MS, AR, AL, KY, SC, LA, TN, or from poor cities that have been ruined by white racism: Baltimore, Richmond, Atlanta.

    Whites who have been privileged by living on Magic Dirt will be forced to move onto Tragic Dirt, their numbers replaced on Magic Dirt by blacks who had been forced to fail by living on Tragic Dirt.

    That will prove the racists to be WRONG!
    , @JosephB
    Could you tell us what parts you found stupid or lunatic? Even better, could you tell us which parts you found wrong?
    , @Alden
    Don’t like unz?

    Don’t read unz
    , @J.Ross
    Don't worry, soon this sort of thing will be illegal, and the only discussion of African governments will be chanting that all white people should die.
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  11. Jake says:
    @Gene Su
    Ms. Mercer: I'd like to ask you a question.
    I remember reading the Godfather in my college years. Yes, I read Mario Puzo's novel long before I saw the movie. One of the chapters talked about corrupt cops. It noted that many cops would get tired and annoyed at their beats after a few years from having to deal with an ungrateful public. They would not feel any shame at supplementing their income with bribes to ignore gambling or graft or similar minor crimes. They would, however, bulk at taking bribes for more serious crimes like murder and drugs. The typical cop has a "moral line in the sand" they simply would not cross.

    Would you say that part of the problem with the typical African is that he has no such "moral line in the sand"?

    Keith Richburg noted that politics in Africa is seen as a spoils game and only as a spoils game. I know many people know the joke about the Asian politician who stole 10% on a bridge he was supposed to build and the African politician who stole 100% on the bridge he didn't build.

    I would say it is even worse than there being no line in the sand for the vast majority of black Africans (and a huge number of blacks around the globe). It is that most blacks will not truly accept a Leader unless that leader proves his right to rule with brutality, including brutality that is beyond the bounds of logic.

    The Big Man proves his Big Man status with amoral brutality.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  12. Jake says:
    @Bayan
    Reasonable article.

    But I think South Africa has the democratic framework and experience that they will be able to make corrections and move forward. It will be struggle, but winnable.

    Most of the rest of Africa has difficulty embarking on the right road.

    What are the solutions? Hope Ilana's next article will be on solutions as she sees them.

    The only ‘solution’ is not to spread the contagion, which means quarantine until such time as those inside the quarantine have successfully corrected the contagion.

    Money tossed – even with the most sincere heart of charity – makes the contagion worse. Migration away from the contagion hot zones spreads the contagion.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  13. JimH says:
    @B Sampson
    a lunatic article and lunatic commentary..nothing but blind prejudice from start to finish.

    this here is so incredibly stupid that it shocks and forces a response. and the UNZ review gets away with stuff like this...or is this its forte', its reason for being?

    Behold – the obligatory umbrage of the privileged commentator.

    Either a member of the WaBenzi or an English-speaking ‘liberal’ who works for a S African uni. or paper.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
    Probably not from a Wabenzi, but more likely from a Wan'drobo leftist whose calabash would be empty if not for his job with an NGO.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  14. Jake says:
    @B Sampson
    a lunatic article and lunatic commentary..nothing but blind prejudice from start to finish.

    this here is so incredibly stupid that it shocks and forces a response. and the UNZ review gets away with stuff like this...or is this its forte', its reason for being?

    Leftists love social engineering, at least when the ‘experiments’ destroy some white Christian society. I suggest we have a social experiment to prove the equality, even superiority, of the Numinous Negro.

    Let’s steal all property from whites in South Africa. They just have it all – every acre, every small house, every business, every bank account – taken to be redistributed to blacks. Then let’s remove the white poison totally – all whites expelled from South Africa. They will be made even more discombobulated by being sent to non-English-speaking countries: France, Spain, Portugal, Italy, Belgium, Austria, Poland.

    And those whites being sent to Europe will be swapped for native Africans, or children of native Africans, who now live in those countries. For example, if 100,000 whites who now live in SA are sent to Poland, 100,000 blacks in Poland will be sent to SA.

    Then we end all immigration for 20 years, after which we study the results.

    And we can do something similar in the US, but with states. The wealthiest states per capita are CT and NJ. Let’s forcibly remove all whites from those states. Let’s add to CT’s size by eliminating the state of RI, and forcibly removing all its whites, and making RI part of CT. Each white forced out of those rich states will be replaced with a black from a poor state: MS, AR, AL, KY, SC, LA, TN, or from poor cities that have been ruined by white racism: Baltimore, Richmond, Atlanta.

    Whites who have been privileged by living on Magic Dirt will be forced to move onto Tragic Dirt, their numbers replaced on Magic Dirt by blacks who had been forced to fail by living on Tragic Dirt.

    That will prove the racists to be WRONG!

    Read More
    • Replies: @HunAnon
    I doubt that there are 100,000 blacks in Poland. And if it is up to the Polish people I doubt that there ever will have 100,000 of them.
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  15. Bayan says:
    @Gene Su
    I think you are being overly optimistic. As Ms. Mercer, Mr, Richburg, and many other similar foreign commentators have noted, what black Africans need to create for themselves is not democracy but the rule of law. It has to adopt for itself the habits, customs, and, yes, morals, of Western civilization (before cultural Marxism infected it). Black Africans need to adopt all these without the coercion of the white man. The basis of our civilization did not come from the American Constitution or the English Magna Carta but the Jewish Ten Commandments and Hammurabi's Code of Law. Our civilization did not come about in decades or centuries but over many millennium. I'm not a racialist. I'm a culturalist.

    I am very doubtful of the graph that the worldwide black population will shoot upward exponentially in the next few decades. If Europe and the United States pulls the plug on the charities that feed the African, the worldwide black population will level off. If tribal wars intensify all over Africa, they might succeed into hunting one another into extinction. Perhaps after such a conflict, the exhausted black population might begin to see reason.

    Agree, culture is important.

    You can develop it locally or borrow from others. It need not be Jewish or Babylonian. The Greeks built their democracy on the basis of their own culture. There will always be some borrowing, but I think what you produce locally is the most important part.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Carroll Price
    I assume you are aware that ancient Egypt and classic Greek culture were both founded by Nordics from northern Europeans, and that both (like the United States) were destroyed by blacks who were imported as slaves and servants to the whites.
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  16. Meet the new boss: Same as the old boss.

    If the Europeans were smart … and interested in self-preservation … they’d start building that defensive wall across North Africa sooner rather than later.

    Read More
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  17. JosephB says:
    @B Sampson
    a lunatic article and lunatic commentary..nothing but blind prejudice from start to finish.

    this here is so incredibly stupid that it shocks and forces a response. and the UNZ review gets away with stuff like this...or is this its forte', its reason for being?

    Could you tell us what parts you found stupid or lunatic? Even better, could you tell us which parts you found wrong?

    Read More
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  18. Peter T says:

    In America, you oust a Tyrant but not a Tyranny.

    We ousted Obama and didn’t let Hillary replace him. But under Trump, the bankers still run the economy for their benefit and to our harm. Under Trump the Regime Change wars continue. Under Trump, instead of getting out of NATO, we promise $5 billion of taxpayer dollars to counter a mythical Russian threat.

    Cue The Who singing “Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.”

    Read More
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  19. Is it much different in the USA ?
    Does Trump stop USA militarism, and uses the money for USA citizens ?
    Until now all USA presidents from the political establishment did not give Jerusalem away.
    Bush jr attacked Iraq, predictions I see here that Trump will attack Iran, a far more dangerous operation.
    After WWII the victors tried to denazifi Germany, they soon found out they could not run the country without former nazi’s.
    The French revolution was 1789, it was 1870 before the monarchy disappeared, if it did.
    Macron is nicknamed Jupiter.
    The former adviser of our former queen Beatrix, Tjeenk Willink once said ‘France is a monarchy with an elected head of state, the Netherlands is a republic with a hereditary head of state’.
    Cultures change very slowly, if they do.

    Read More
    • Replies: @jacques sheete

    Cultures change very slowly, if they do.
     
    Probably human nature changes much more slowly, if at all.

    Evidently it's much more satisfying to bash Africans than to remove the beams from our own eyes, but at least the author gets a gold star for consistency.
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  20. anarchyst says:

    Apartheid was put in place to keep the normally warring tribes from decimating each other. As a result, South Africa became one of the most economically stable countries in Africa. Despite the so-called “evils” of apartheid, there was a large influx of immigrants into South Africa. Food was plentiful. Apartheid was able to “keep the peace” and was successful until communism’s “inventors”–the jews (despite having arms agreements with South Africa) helped dismantle apartheid. The rest is history . . . South Africa is a “basket case”; its white farmers (producers) are being murdered. Farms that have been “appropriated” by blacks are being looted–not useable for farming anymore because anything of value is being sold for scrap.
    If one good thing comes of this, it will be the deserved “retribution” placed on the South African leftist jews for being a major part in destroying this once-prosperous country.
    I, for one would welcome the emigration of Boers to the United States. However, current immigration laws do not apply to whites who wish to immigrate to America. Only third-world non-whites need apply . . .

    Read More
    • Replies: @Alden
    Good post. The communist Jews were in the process of destroying White S. Africa at the same time Israel was allied with S Africa for nuclear power and other things.
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  21. There was no democracy in the Greek city states.
    A few rich men ruled.
    One might say the city states resemble the present USA.
    The difference is that the city states did not pretend that ordinary citizens had any say in anything.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Alden
    All the male ethnically Greek citizens had a lot to say. They all voted. A lot of the political and government rotated amongst all male Greek citizens not just the rich

    The women, slaves, immigrants and foreigners could not vote. Nothing wrong with restricting the franchise to citizens only. I believe most countries have that law.

    2 Questions Jilles.

    When did the government of the Netherlands extend voting rights to women?

    When did the government of the Netherlands extend voting rights to all men, not just propert owners?

    I mean the modern Netherlands, not the wealthy merchants and landowners of the 1500 and 1600s Netherlands, but the modern Netherlands.

    Your little bits and pieces of superficial knowledge just shows how badly educated you are. American middle school text books are more knowledgeable about Ancient Greece than you

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  22. @jilles dykstra
    Is it much different in the USA ?
    Does Trump stop USA militarism, and uses the money for USA citizens ?
    Until now all USA presidents from the political establishment did not give Jerusalem away.
    Bush jr attacked Iraq, predictions I see here that Trump will attack Iran, a far more dangerous operation.
    After WWII the victors tried to denazifi Germany, they soon found out they could not run the country without former nazi's.
    The French revolution was 1789, it was 1870 before the monarchy disappeared, if it did.
    Macron is nicknamed Jupiter.
    The former adviser of our former queen Beatrix, Tjeenk Willink once said 'France is a monarchy with an elected head of state, the Netherlands is a republic with a hereditary head of state'.
    Cultures change very slowly, if they do.

    Cultures change very slowly, if they do.

    Probably human nature changes much more slowly, if at all.

    Evidently it’s much more satisfying to bash Africans than to remove the beams from our own eyes, but at least the author gets a gold star for consistency.

    Read More
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  23. Che Guava says:

    As always, Ilana is needing to write a mea culpa for both herself and her Rabbi father.

    Both are to having some resonsobility for the RSA mess, both running away.

    Having read for a couple of years, Ilana is probably the commentator in worst faith.

    Read More
    • Replies: @pyrrhus
    But regardless of Jewish responsibility for this mess, running away was clearly the only strategy offering hope for survival.
    , @Jake
    The SPLC, the ADL and Black Lives Matter thank you for attacking Ilana Mercer.
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  24. pyrrhus says:

    The bottom line is that South Africa under the rule of the ANC is dead man walking, and has been since the ANC took over. Only the details of its devolution into Zimbabwe, or worse, remain to be seen…

    South African whites and other minorities have to be cucked to the eyeballs not to see what is coming….

    Read More
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  25. pyrrhus says:
    @Che Guava
    As always, Ilana is needing to write a mea culpa for both herself and her Rabbi father.

    Both are to having some resonsobility for the RSA mess, both running away.

    Having read for a couple of years, Ilana is probably the commentator in worst faith.

    But regardless of Jewish responsibility for this mess, running away was clearly the only strategy offering hope for survival.

    Read More
    • Agree: Che Guava
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  26. HunAnon says:
    @Jake
    Leftists love social engineering, at least when the 'experiments' destroy some white Christian society. I suggest we have a social experiment to prove the equality, even superiority, of the Numinous Negro.

    Let's steal all property from whites in South Africa. They just have it all - every acre, every small house, every business, every bank account - taken to be redistributed to blacks. Then let's remove the white poison totally - all whites expelled from South Africa. They will be made even more discombobulated by being sent to non-English-speaking countries: France, Spain, Portugal, Italy, Belgium, Austria, Poland.

    And those whites being sent to Europe will be swapped for native Africans, or children of native Africans, who now live in those countries. For example, if 100,000 whites who now live in SA are sent to Poland, 100,000 blacks in Poland will be sent to SA.

    Then we end all immigration for 20 years, after which we study the results.

    And we can do something similar in the US, but with states. The wealthiest states per capita are CT and NJ. Let's forcibly remove all whites from those states. Let's add to CT's size by eliminating the state of RI, and forcibly removing all its whites, and making RI part of CT. Each white forced out of those rich states will be replaced with a black from a poor state: MS, AR, AL, KY, SC, LA, TN, or from poor cities that have been ruined by white racism: Baltimore, Richmond, Atlanta.

    Whites who have been privileged by living on Magic Dirt will be forced to move onto Tragic Dirt, their numbers replaced on Magic Dirt by blacks who had been forced to fail by living on Tragic Dirt.

    That will prove the racists to be WRONG!

    I doubt that there are 100,000 blacks in Poland. And if it is up to the Polish people I doubt that there ever will have 100,000 of them.

    Read More
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  27. Pandos says:

    Came from different monkeys.

    Read More
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  28. Binyamin says:

    The overt pessimism of this article is a reflection of Mercer’s racial world view. Mercer clearly does not believe that black Africans are capable of ruling themselves. Mercer is also a proponent of the dubious theory of white genocide with reference to the plight of whites in her homeland. The statistics prove otherwise. In South Africa the murder rates of whites compared to blacks matches proportionally compared to their population levels ( 10 and 9 percentages respectively). Therefore the difference between white and black murder rates are statistically insignificant. I am no fan of the ANC and the country does have a huge problem with law and order. However, this is not merely due to the incompetence of ANC but the fact that the ANC would like to pretend that they are western style liberals. Therefore, unusually for a developing country, South Africa does not have capital punishment and same sex marriage is legal, moves which us libertarians can only approve. Unfortunately, the ANC does not believe in giving the police greater powers to tackle crime under the dubious assumption that doing so will revert the country back to the legendary brutality of apartheid era Afrikaner police.
    However, Unlike racialists like Mercer, others are positive about South Africa. Jim O’Neal, the former Goldman Sachs banker has coined the phrase BRICS to designate the most important countries of the future. The letter ‘S’ stands for South Africa (figure out what the other letters stand for). The world bank are also positive about South Africa’s prospects. Unfortunately, racial supremacists like Mercer are oblivious to reason.

    Read More
    • Replies: @neutral
    A lot of the whites being murdered in the rural areas are being targeted because of their race, the blacks being murdered is simply the norm where you have majority black populations.

    Also, the blunt reality is that blacks are not equal to whites, there is no real world evidence for the racial equality that so many believe in, so South Africa is never going to become the next South Korea or other such East Asian start ups, it simply has the wrong demographics. Since you will never admit to the fact that the dice rolled for South Africa are bad, you will forever come up with excuses why it cannot succeed, this is actually what keeps back South Africa more than those that admit to the racial realities of this world.

    , @Alden
    If Goldman Sachs and the World Bank are optimistic about South Africa, that can only mean they are getting ready to loot and destroy South Africa.
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  29. Tim says:

    This is a good article. But I think the Chinese are setting Africa up. They see Africa for what it is and always has been–a slave factory. The Chinese are taking over Africa and they will not be burdened by any of these hand-wringing emotions Westerners have.

    They will just take Africa, bend it to their will and use it for what it is meant to be used as, slave labor.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jake
    Neither Arab Mohammedans nor Chinese would bat an eye at their people slaughtering 100 million black Africans in order to make 500 million black Africans their slaves.
    , @Truth
    As I've told you simpletons 100x now, the Chinese can't take over Taiwan which is the size of Vermont. How are they going to take over Africa?
    , @Okechukwu

    This is a good article. But I think the Chinese are setting Africa up. They see Africa for what it is and always has been–a slave factory. The Chinese are taking over Africa and they will not be burdened by any of these hand-wringing emotions Westerners have.
     
    You clowns have been preaching this mantra for years now. When exactly is China going to enslave the Africans? And if they tried, why wouldn't the Africans simply cut them up into little pieces and send them back to China?

    Give it a rest with this bullshit. You failed in Africa because you incorrectly presumed yourselves to be superior and you went there to oppress, exploit and dominate rather than to foster mutually beneficial relationships. China has your playbook and they do not intend to make the same mistakes, even if they wanted to. Besides, why shouldn't China benefit in Africa? They helped African freedom fighters with arms and training to overthrow the white supremacist scumbags.

    Which brings to mind, we have to seriously evaluate the efficacy of IQ testing. Imagine "high IQ" whites who were nevertheless too dumb to understand that relegating the majority population to second class citizen status would not come with it prospects for longterm survival. It seems to be that those braindead whites were far dumber than the "70 IQ" Africans.

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  30. jack ryan says: • Website

    How about some type of feudalism?

    Or some (renamed, rebranded of course) form of Neo Colonialism and British East India company control of the land.

    Under this system, South African and Zimbabwean farm land wouldn’t be privately owned by White farmers. Instead some corporation with a corporate board of majority connected Blacks would own the land and Whites would manage the land and the Black workers would have employment and not starve or get aids. But no one considers turning over the productive corporate owned farmed land to the Black “Masses” or to ANC party chiefs.

    Read More
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  31. neutral says:
    @Binyamin
    The overt pessimism of this article is a reflection of Mercer’s racial world view. Mercer clearly does not believe that black Africans are capable of ruling themselves. Mercer is also a proponent of the dubious theory of white genocide with reference to the plight of whites in her homeland. The statistics prove otherwise. In South Africa the murder rates of whites compared to blacks matches proportionally compared to their population levels ( 10 and 9 percentages respectively). Therefore the difference between white and black murder rates are statistically insignificant. I am no fan of the ANC and the country does have a huge problem with law and order. However, this is not merely due to the incompetence of ANC but the fact that the ANC would like to pretend that they are western style liberals. Therefore, unusually for a developing country, South Africa does not have capital punishment and same sex marriage is legal, moves which us libertarians can only approve. Unfortunately, the ANC does not believe in giving the police greater powers to tackle crime under the dubious assumption that doing so will revert the country back to the legendary brutality of apartheid era Afrikaner police.
    However, Unlike racialists like Mercer, others are positive about South Africa. Jim O’Neal, the former Goldman Sachs banker has coined the phrase BRICS to designate the most important countries of the future. The letter ‘S’ stands for South Africa (figure out what the other letters stand for). The world bank are also positive about South Africa’s prospects. Unfortunately, racial supremacists like Mercer are oblivious to reason.

    A lot of the whites being murdered in the rural areas are being targeted because of their race, the blacks being murdered is simply the norm where you have majority black populations.

    Also, the blunt reality is that blacks are not equal to whites, there is no real world evidence for the racial equality that so many believe in, so South Africa is never going to become the next South Korea or other such East Asian start ups, it simply has the wrong demographics. Since you will never admit to the fact that the dice rolled for South Africa are bad, you will forever come up with excuses why it cannot succeed, this is actually what keeps back South Africa more than those that admit to the racial realities of this world.

    Read More
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  32. @JimH
    Behold - the obligatory umbrage of the privileged commentator.

    Either a member of the WaBenzi or an English-speaking 'liberal' who works for a S African uni. or paper.

    Probably not from a Wabenzi, but more likely from a Wan’drobo leftist whose calabash would be empty if not for his job with an NGO.

    Read More
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  33. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    It’s “Gib me dat” writ large. It will take hundreds of years of guided evolution and heavy subsidizing to make a dent. And then we’ll only end up with a gene pool that has acclimated to having everything subsidized for them and no responsibility on them; aka the American Negro.

    Read More
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  34. Jake says:
    @Che Guava
    As always, Ilana is needing to write a mea culpa for both herself and her Rabbi father.

    Both are to having some resonsobility for the RSA mess, both running away.

    Having read for a couple of years, Ilana is probably the commentator in worst faith.

    The SPLC, the ADL and Black Lives Matter thank you for attacking Ilana Mercer.

    Read More
    • Replies: @mr meener
    Jake ilanas father a rabbi along with the other communist jews started the ANC to destroy SA then they ran to Israel their work being done. she is a fake a phony and a fraud
    , @Che Guava
    Why? I like much of her writing. How do you know that she, and or her father, are not sympathetic with the groups you name? Both likely so, in the case of the former two at least. Your comment is idiotic.
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  35. Jake says:
    @Tim
    This is a good article. But I think the Chinese are setting Africa up. They see Africa for what it is and always has been--a slave factory. The Chinese are taking over Africa and they will not be burdened by any of these hand-wringing emotions Westerners have.

    They will just take Africa, bend it to their will and use it for what it is meant to be used as, slave labor.

    Neither Arab Mohammedans nor Chinese would bat an eye at their people slaughtering 100 million black Africans in order to make 500 million black Africans their slaves.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Gene Su
    Arab Muslims would not bat an eye at enslaving 500 million black Africans. The Chinese would not enslave 500 million black Africans... because they are smart enough to know that the eventual consequence would be the drowning of their country and culture into the black African non-culture (as has happened here in the U.S.).
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  36. mr meener says:

    here we have our heroine Ilana preaching right wing fire and brimstone while leaving out her rabbi father along with the other white hating communist jews like Joe Slovo helped to form the communist ANC to destroy the great society the whites built in South Africa. then with the seeds of slaughter and destruction bearing fruit they vacate SA to run to Israel. Hitler had predicted if they had a homeland they could destroy countries loot and murder then run there to escape the hell they created. she is a jewish Trojan Horse

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wally
    Finally, a Hitler reference that refers to what he really said.

    "Some stories are true that never happened."
    - Elie Wiesel
     
    www.codoh.com
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  37. mr meener says:
    @Jake
    The SPLC, the ADL and Black Lives Matter thank you for attacking Ilana Mercer.

    Jake ilanas father a rabbi along with the other communist jews started the ANC to destroy SA then they ran to Israel their work being done. she is a fake a phony and a fraud

    Read More
    • Agree: Alden
    • Replies: @Alden
    I always ignore Mercer.

    Only reason I looked at this one is the outfits the girls wear. Are they school uniforms?

    If so they are the prettiest uniforms I’ve seen in my life other than Norte Dame des Victoires in San Francisco.

    The medium blue is perfect for brown skin girls. I just love the skirts. The white dots are so cute, much better than the standard plaid.
    , @Fredrik
    It must be mentioned that a large contingent of the whites in Johannesburg are Jewish.
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  38. Alden says:
    @B Sampson
    a lunatic article and lunatic commentary..nothing but blind prejudice from start to finish.

    this here is so incredibly stupid that it shocks and forces a response. and the UNZ review gets away with stuff like this...or is this its forte', its reason for being?

    Don’t like unz?

    Don’t read unz

    Read More
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  39. Alden says:
    @mr meener
    Jake ilanas father a rabbi along with the other communist jews started the ANC to destroy SA then they ran to Israel their work being done. she is a fake a phony and a fraud

    I always ignore Mercer.

    Only reason I looked at this one is the outfits the girls wear. Are they school uniforms?

    If so they are the prettiest uniforms I’ve seen in my life other than Norte Dame des Victoires in San Francisco.

    The medium blue is perfect for brown skin girls. I just love the skirts. The white dots are so cute, much better than the standard plaid.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Fredrik
    This is attire for the opposition party Democratic Alliance(DA). DA is the party most whites(and certainly English speakers) vote for.
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  40. Alden says:
    @Binyamin
    The overt pessimism of this article is a reflection of Mercer’s racial world view. Mercer clearly does not believe that black Africans are capable of ruling themselves. Mercer is also a proponent of the dubious theory of white genocide with reference to the plight of whites in her homeland. The statistics prove otherwise. In South Africa the murder rates of whites compared to blacks matches proportionally compared to their population levels ( 10 and 9 percentages respectively). Therefore the difference between white and black murder rates are statistically insignificant. I am no fan of the ANC and the country does have a huge problem with law and order. However, this is not merely due to the incompetence of ANC but the fact that the ANC would like to pretend that they are western style liberals. Therefore, unusually for a developing country, South Africa does not have capital punishment and same sex marriage is legal, moves which us libertarians can only approve. Unfortunately, the ANC does not believe in giving the police greater powers to tackle crime under the dubious assumption that doing so will revert the country back to the legendary brutality of apartheid era Afrikaner police.
    However, Unlike racialists like Mercer, others are positive about South Africa. Jim O’Neal, the former Goldman Sachs banker has coined the phrase BRICS to designate the most important countries of the future. The letter ‘S’ stands for South Africa (figure out what the other letters stand for). The world bank are also positive about South Africa’s prospects. Unfortunately, racial supremacists like Mercer are oblivious to reason.

    If Goldman Sachs and the World Bank are optimistic about South Africa, that can only mean they are getting ready to loot and destroy South Africa.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wally
    No they're working a deal with actual Africans. The "looting" can't happen without Africans participating.

    Just like slavery that would not have happened without Africans selling the slaves to outsiders.

    'African chiefs urged to apologise for slave trade
    Nigerian civil rights group says tribal leaders' ancestors sold people to slavers and should say sorry'
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/nov/18/africans-apologise-slave-trade

    "African chiefs were the ones waging war on each other and capturing their own people and selling them. If anyone should apologise it should be the African chiefs. We still have those traitors here even today."

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  41. Alden says:
    @anarchyst
    Apartheid was put in place to keep the normally warring tribes from decimating each other. As a result, South Africa became one of the most economically stable countries in Africa. Despite the so-called "evils" of apartheid, there was a large influx of immigrants into South Africa. Food was plentiful. Apartheid was able to "keep the peace" and was successful until communism's "inventors"--the jews (despite having arms agreements with South Africa) helped dismantle apartheid. The rest is history . . . South Africa is a "basket case"; its white farmers (producers) are being murdered. Farms that have been "appropriated" by blacks are being looted--not useable for farming anymore because anything of value is being sold for scrap.
    If one good thing comes of this, it will be the deserved "retribution" placed on the South African leftist jews for being a major part in destroying this once-prosperous country.
    I, for one would welcome the emigration of Boers to the United States. However, current immigration laws do not apply to whites who wish to immigrate to America. Only third-world non-whites need apply . . .

    Good post. The communist Jews were in the process of destroying White S. Africa at the same time Israel was allied with S Africa for nuclear power and other things.

    Read More
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  42. Alden says:
    @jilles dykstra
    There was no democracy in the Greek city states.
    A few rich men ruled.
    One might say the city states resemble the present USA.
    The difference is that the city states did not pretend that ordinary citizens had any say in anything.

    All the male ethnically Greek citizens had a lot to say. They all voted. A lot of the political and government rotated amongst all male Greek citizens not just the rich

    The women, slaves, immigrants and foreigners could not vote. Nothing wrong with restricting the franchise to citizens only. I believe most countries have that law.

    2 Questions Jilles.

    When did the government of the Netherlands extend voting rights to women?

    When did the government of the Netherlands extend voting rights to all men, not just propert owners?

    I mean the modern Netherlands, not the wealthy merchants and landowners of the 1500 and 1600s Netherlands, but the modern Netherlands.

    Your little bits and pieces of superficial knowledge just shows how badly educated you are. American middle school text books are more knowledgeable about Ancient Greece than you

    Read More
    • Replies: @Truth
    Little fun fact, Aldey:

    Did you know that in order to be a citizen, an ancient Greek had to be male, and born of nobility. A young man had to do an "internship" with an older man of four years, generally between the ages of 12 and 16.

    That's right. EVERY citizen of Ancient Athens, was a homosexual.
    , @jilles dykstra
    What the Dutch situation has to do with my remarks is beyond me.

    When exactly all Dutch males got the vote I do not know, I do know that a poor great grandfather in 1897 was elected into the municipality, and that his enemy, the local Baron, had to leave.
    He, as far as I know, did not have to register as a voter, as is the situation with us to this day.

    Pity you do not read Dutch, otherwise you could see the influence of women in our 17th century:
    A.Th. van Deursen, 'Een dorp in de polder, Graft in de 17e eeuw', Amsterdam, 1998
    Gerda H. Kurtz, 'Kenu Symonsdochter van Haerlem', Assen, 1956

    But a help does exist
    D.J. Roorda, ‘Ambassadeur in de Lage Landen, William Temple, Observations upon the United Provinces’, Haarlem 1978
    Foreign visitors were amazed on how Dutch women had equal rights.
    or
    Margaret Gullan-Whur, ‘Within Reason, A Life of Spinoza’, London 1998
    Spinoza was flabbergasted that a Dutch girl of sixteen or so was literate in Latin.

    About the Greek city states
    Jacob Burckhardt, ‘Staat, religie en cultuur in wereldhistorisch perspectief’, 1905, 1995, Kampen (Weltgeschichtliche Betrachtungen).
    Burckhardt was a professor in Basel, if I remember correctly.
    The book was written after his death by his students from notes, at the time the Greeks were seen, as by some fools to this day, as champions of democracy.
    Burckhardt did not dare to publicise his views.

    Burckhardt explains how the Greek city states were terrible places to live, 'no escape was possible'.
    His descriptions explain the suicides, ordered or 'voluntary', and the Greek drama.

    Your problem is that you accept textbooks at face value.
    In reality textbooks are to a large extent propaganda.

    When I was in primary school the propaganda stories of Ceasar on the barbarians he subjugated still were believed at face value.
    Excavations changed this thoroughly.
    If you want to see with your own eyes what these barbarians were capable off visit the Kelten Museum in Halle Austria.

    Do you also still believe the USA Civil War was about liberating the slaves ?
    In reality the liberated slaves were worse off as industrial workers than as slaves.
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  43. Fredrik says:
    @Red Robbo
    Oh no, not again! Remember Marikana! The election of the ANC to power was supposed to see the grinding poverty of the townships ended, but Mandela, Mbeki and Zuma have turned out to be powerless to run capitalism in a way that would end exploitation and poverty. Mbeki is responsible for the premature deaths of up to 365,000 AIDS victims. King Zuma has the Marikana massacre and a palace to his name. All three South-African Presidents supported the dictator Mugabe. South Africa is the most unequal society in the world - economic apartheid persists for millions.

    ANC never intended to change this.

    This was always only about enriching oneself.

    The flipside of that coin is that talk of racial animosity or genocide is exaggerated. Sure, bad things happen but even the ANC themselves admit this is due to the nature of the African. There’s no plan…

    Read More
    • Replies: @Red Robbo
    >This was always only about enriching oneself.
    This is the situation worldwide.

    I read a Time piece last month about the growing number of Butler schools in China! Apparently some of China's 1,590,000 millionaires wish to live the life of Riley Downtown Abbey style! 'Students pay 50,000 rmb ($7,500) for a six-week course on food presentation, how to iron shirts the proper way, and maintaining serene decorum at all times....Students learn how to choose fine wine but also good Chinese liquor, teach tai chi, perform a tea ceremony and caddy on the golf course. For many, it’s another world.' Indeed. '...15-hour days and endless drilling. How to clean a toilet, iron a tablecloth, use tape-measures and plastic blocks to get table placings perfectly aligned. It’s a regiment of burns, blisters and bottomless cups of coffee'. This in turn reminded me that the Ju/’hoansi people work only 15 hours a week! 'The Ju/’hoansi people of the Kalahari have always been fiercely egalitarian. They hate inequality or showing off, and shun formal leadership institutions. It’s what made them part of the most successful, sustainable civilisation in human history' (The Guardian, 29 October).
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  44. Fredrik says:
    @mr meener
    Jake ilanas father a rabbi along with the other communist jews started the ANC to destroy SA then they ran to Israel their work being done. she is a fake a phony and a fraud

    It must be mentioned that a large contingent of the whites in Johannesburg are Jewish.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Living in JHB
    You have got to be kidding me! I live in Joburg. This comment is simply untrue. Yes Jews are important in business, etc - but they are a sliver of the white population, and miniscule in the total makeup of the city. Really Fredrik, your comment is nonsense.
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  45. Gene Su says:
    @Jake
    Neither Arab Mohammedans nor Chinese would bat an eye at their people slaughtering 100 million black Africans in order to make 500 million black Africans their slaves.

    Arab Muslims would not bat an eye at enslaving 500 million black Africans. The Chinese would not enslave 500 million black Africans… because they are smart enough to know that the eventual consequence would be the drowning of their country and culture into the black African non-culture (as has happened here in the U.S.).

    Read More
    • Replies: @Truth
    Yeah, they can just watch TV instead.
    , @MEFOBILLS
    The Arab slave trade in East Africa took many more slaves than did the West trade.

    Yet, there are blacks in the West today, descendants of this trade. In Arab lands, not so much.

    Why? Because Arabs made Eunichs of black males. This entailed cutting off both testicles and penis.

    Tent cities in North East Africa were used to house African Negroes for eunich procedure. For many years, the process had a high death rate. I have estimates that an African only lasted about 5 years in Arab Lands, so there was an on- going need for new slaves.

    because they are smart enough to know that the eventual consequence would be the drowning of their country and culture into the black African non-culture (as has happened here in the U.S.).
     
    Any sort of high importation rate, if accompanied by sterilization is PROVEN by history to be effective. Arab countries today are not drowned with African DNA.
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  46. Truth says:
    @Tim
    This is a good article. But I think the Chinese are setting Africa up. They see Africa for what it is and always has been--a slave factory. The Chinese are taking over Africa and they will not be burdened by any of these hand-wringing emotions Westerners have.

    They will just take Africa, bend it to their will and use it for what it is meant to be used as, slave labor.

    As I’ve told you simpletons 100x now, the Chinese can’t take over Taiwan which is the size of Vermont. How are they going to take over Africa?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wally
    Taiwan's / Africa's size has nothing to do with it.
    , @Alden
    The Chinese haven’t touched Tawain because doing so would involve them in a naval, air and infantry war with the United States.
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  47. Truth says:
    @Alden
    All the male ethnically Greek citizens had a lot to say. They all voted. A lot of the political and government rotated amongst all male Greek citizens not just the rich

    The women, slaves, immigrants and foreigners could not vote. Nothing wrong with restricting the franchise to citizens only. I believe most countries have that law.

    2 Questions Jilles.

    When did the government of the Netherlands extend voting rights to women?

    When did the government of the Netherlands extend voting rights to all men, not just propert owners?

    I mean the modern Netherlands, not the wealthy merchants and landowners of the 1500 and 1600s Netherlands, but the modern Netherlands.

    Your little bits and pieces of superficial knowledge just shows how badly educated you are. American middle school text books are more knowledgeable about Ancient Greece than you

    Little fun fact, Aldey:

    Did you know that in order to be a citizen, an ancient Greek had to be male, and born of nobility. A young man had to do an “internship” with an older man of four years, generally between the ages of 12 and 16.

    That’s right. EVERY citizen of Ancient Athens, was a homosexual.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Alden
    Yes I know and that is exactly what I wrote. To vote and hold office a person had to be a male Greek citizen

    FYI the Ancient Greek native born citizens had a class system. But they did not have “nobility” as feudal Japan and Europe had.

    Most of the wealthiest male Greek citizens were merchants and money lenders, not warriors and intellectuals.

    There was a class system but not a nobility. Greece had many slaves who wer not citizens. Like America, Greece was prosperous and powerful and attracted many immigrants.

    Most European countries did not extend the franchise all men until late in the 19th century. Some European countries did not extend the franchise to women until the mid 20th century

    Ancient Greece, like most countries restricted the franchise to male citizens.

    You really should only post about things you know. And you don’t know much about Ancient Greece. And don’t clip and paste some Wikipedia nonsense

    Even middle school kids are taught Wikipedia is not reliable.

    Greek men were gay and the adult men were given boys to groom and molest? It’s common knowledge. Think that wasn’t in my high school history books? Think agsin

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  48. Truth says:
    @Gene Su
    Arab Muslims would not bat an eye at enslaving 500 million black Africans. The Chinese would not enslave 500 million black Africans... because they are smart enough to know that the eventual consequence would be the drowning of their country and culture into the black African non-culture (as has happened here in the U.S.).

    Yeah, they can just watch TV instead.

    Read More
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  49. Wally says:
    @Bayan
    Reasonable article.

    But I think South Africa has the democratic framework and experience that they will be able to make corrections and move forward. It will be struggle, but winnable.

    Most of the rest of Africa has difficulty embarking on the right road.

    What are the solutions? Hope Ilana's next article will be on solutions as she sees them.

    Face up to the facts. Africa always has been and always will be utterly hopeless.
    There general IQ levels are to low to expect any productive change.
    Colonialism was the best thing that ever happened to them.

    In practically every instance where blacks are in great numbers, control the governments of cities, counties, regions, states, countries, & continents we see:

    massive murder rates
    massive crime in general
    degraded property
    massive disease, especially STDs
    massive drug abuse
    general filth, squalor
    massive, unable to support their own children, birthrates
    massive youth pregnancies rates
    massive school dropout rates
    incredibly low IQs & test scores
    violence as a way of life
    fathers nowhere to be found

    Read More
    • Agree: Carroll Price
    • Replies: @Carroll Price
    Thank you Wally for stating what most Americans are too intimidated and stupid to acknowledge.
    , @Alden
    You are absolutely right
    , @Bayan
    Given that blacks are involved in the numerous negative activities you listed, how is it that they survived for millennia?

    They must be doing somethings right.

    List them, please.

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  50. Wally says:
    @Alden
    If Goldman Sachs and the World Bank are optimistic about South Africa, that can only mean they are getting ready to loot and destroy South Africa.

    No they’re working a deal with actual Africans. The “looting” can’t happen without Africans participating.

    Just like slavery that would not have happened without Africans selling the slaves to outsiders.

    ‘African chiefs urged to apologise for slave trade
    Nigerian civil rights group says tribal leaders’ ancestors sold people to slavers and should say sorry’

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/nov/18/africans-apologise-slave-trade

    “African chiefs were the ones waging war on each other and capturing their own people and selling them. If anyone should apologise it should be the African chiefs. We still have those traitors here even today.”

    Read More
    • Replies: @Alden
    You mean like Goldman Sachs worked with a few Russians to loot the country in the 1990s? Good point.
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  51. A rather long article detailing why black Africa remains the same hell-hole of starvation, disease and corruption it’s been for well over 5,000 years.

    Read More
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  52. Wally says:
    @Truth
    As I've told you simpletons 100x now, the Chinese can't take over Taiwan which is the size of Vermont. How are they going to take over Africa?

    Taiwan’s / Africa’s size has nothing to do with it.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Truth
    Well yes, it has practically everything to do with it.
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  53. Wally says:
    @mr meener
    here we have our heroine Ilana preaching right wing fire and brimstone while leaving out her rabbi father along with the other white hating communist jews like Joe Slovo helped to form the communist ANC to destroy the great society the whites built in South Africa. then with the seeds of slaughter and destruction bearing fruit they vacate SA to run to Israel. Hitler had predicted if they had a homeland they could destroy countries loot and murder then run there to escape the hell they created. she is a jewish Trojan Horse

    Finally, a Hitler reference that refers to what he really said.

    “Some stories are true that never happened.”
    - Elie Wiesel

    http://www.codoh.com

    Read More
    • Agree: anarchyst
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  54. @Gene Su
    Ms. Mercer: I'd like to ask you a question.
    I remember reading the Godfather in my college years. Yes, I read Mario Puzo's novel long before I saw the movie. One of the chapters talked about corrupt cops. It noted that many cops would get tired and annoyed at their beats after a few years from having to deal with an ungrateful public. They would not feel any shame at supplementing their income with bribes to ignore gambling or graft or similar minor crimes. They would, however, bulk at taking bribes for more serious crimes like murder and drugs. The typical cop has a "moral line in the sand" they simply would not cross.

    Would you say that part of the problem with the typical African is that he has no such "moral line in the sand"?

    Keith Richburg noted that politics in Africa is seen as a spoils game and only as a spoils game. I know many people know the joke about the Asian politician who stole 10% on a bridge he was supposed to build and the African politician who stole 100% on the bridge he didn't build.

    The bribery/spoils system is so engrained in black culture, until it’s virtually impossible to eliminate it. But the really sad part is that rather than stand aside allow black Africa to return to it’s normal and natural state, liberal do-gooders keep tying to accomplish the impossible.

    Read More
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  55. @Gene Su
    I think you are being overly optimistic. As Ms. Mercer, Mr, Richburg, and many other similar foreign commentators have noted, what black Africans need to create for themselves is not democracy but the rule of law. It has to adopt for itself the habits, customs, and, yes, morals, of Western civilization (before cultural Marxism infected it). Black Africans need to adopt all these without the coercion of the white man. The basis of our civilization did not come from the American Constitution or the English Magna Carta but the Jewish Ten Commandments and Hammurabi's Code of Law. Our civilization did not come about in decades or centuries but over many millennium. I'm not a racialist. I'm a culturalist.

    I am very doubtful of the graph that the worldwide black population will shoot upward exponentially in the next few decades. If Europe and the United States pulls the plug on the charities that feed the African, the worldwide black population will level off. If tribal wars intensify all over Africa, they might succeed into hunting one another into extinction. Perhaps after such a conflict, the exhausted black population might begin to see reason.

    There are no “charities that feed the African.” There are charities that go into the tyrants’ pockets, and the poor people never see any of it, unless you hand it directly to them. And you’d better do that secretly, or the government will want its cut.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Truth
    I beg to differ here. There are charities that go %5 to the "African tyrants'" pockets, and %95 into the pockets of their caucasoid overseers.
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  56. @Wally
    Face up to the facts. Africa always has been and always will be utterly hopeless.
    There general IQ levels are to low to expect any productive change.
    Colonialism was the best thing that ever happened to them.

    In practically every instance where blacks are in great numbers, control the governments of cities, counties, regions, states, countries, & continents we see:

    massive murder rates
    massive crime in general
    degraded property
    massive disease, especially STDs
    massive drug abuse
    general filth, squalor
    massive, unable to support their own children, birthrates
    massive youth pregnancies rates
    massive school dropout rates
    incredibly low IQs & test scores
    violence as a way of life
    fathers nowhere to be found

    Thank you Wally for stating what most Americans are too intimidated and stupid to acknowledge.

    Read More
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  57. @Bayan
    Reasonable article.

    But I think South Africa has the democratic framework and experience that they will be able to make corrections and move forward. It will be struggle, but winnable.

    Most of the rest of Africa has difficulty embarking on the right road.

    What are the solutions? Hope Ilana's next article will be on solutions as she sees them.

    Another naïve idiot.

    Read More
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  58. Bayan says:

    Given that blacks are involved in the numerous negative activities you listed, how is it that they survived for millennia?

    They must be doing somethings right.

    List them.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Malla

    how is it that they survived for millennia?
     
    In a pre Industrial society. And before the White man's medicine, with 1/10th the population.


    Anyways if you are interested in African societies centuries ago, this is a must read.

    https://archive.org/stream/negroesinnegrola00helpiala/negroesinnegrola00helpiala_djvu.txt
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  59. @Maj. Kong
    On the contrary, millions of left-wing whites from the West should move to South Africa. Leftists are always going on and on about how we must "check our privilege". Time to put their money where their mouth is.

    Yes. Just think of the glorious opportunity leftist like Madonna and Rosie McDonald (to name only two of the idiots) are missing to leave and re-locate to Communist-run South Africa to prove the superiority of black leadership.

    Read More
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  60. Truth says:
    @Wally
    Taiwan's / Africa's size has nothing to do with it.

    Well yes, it has practically everything to do with it.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wally
    Really?

    Then please explain.
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  61. Truth says:
    @Rosamond Vincy
    There are no "charities that feed the African." There are charities that go into the tyrants' pockets, and the poor people never see any of it, unless you hand it directly to them. And you'd better do that secretly, or the government will want its cut.

    I beg to differ here. There are charities that go %5 to the “African tyrants’” pockets, and %95 into the pockets of their caucasoid overseers.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rosamond Vincy
    We can agree on where it ISN'T going.
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  62. @Bayan
    Agree, culture is important.

    You can develop it locally or borrow from others. It need not be Jewish or Babylonian. The Greeks built their democracy on the basis of their own culture. There will always be some borrowing, but I think what you produce locally is the most important part.

    I assume you are aware that ancient Egypt and classic Greek culture were both founded by Nordics from northern Europeans, and that both (like the United States) were destroyed by blacks who were imported as slaves and servants to the whites.

    Read More
    • LOL: Alden
    • Replies: @Alden
    I had no idea the Greeks imported black slaves. It’s not in any history book I’ve ever read. A communist Jew professor named Bernal of Cornell university did write a book, “ Black Athena” claiming that the ancient Greeks were black.

    Black suprenacists also claim that the ancient Greeks were black. Greek historians claim that Ancient Greece became part of the Roman Empire.

    Around 330Ad the Emperor of Rome split the empire into 2 parts, east and west. The eastern part was ruled from Greece. It was called the Byzantine Empire and lasted until around 1452 when it was conquered by Muslim Turks.

    At least that’s what the Greek historians say.

    They all refuted Bernal’s contention that there were black Africans in Ancient Greece.
    , @Wally
    I don't doubt the racial changes of Greece & Egypt over time, but Greece with large scale black slavery is quite dubious.
    References?

    In the first place, slavery in the US, for the truly minute percentage of those who owned slaves, would never have happened if Africans hadn't had slaves themselves, gather more, and sell them.

    African chiefs urged to apologise for slave trade
    Nigerian civil rights group says tribal leaders' ancestors sold people to slavers and should say sorry
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/nov/18/africans-apologise-slave-trade

    "African chiefs were the ones waging war on each other and capturing their own people and selling them. If anyone should apologise it should be the African chiefs. We still have those traitors here even today."

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  63. Alden says:
    @Truth
    Little fun fact, Aldey:

    Did you know that in order to be a citizen, an ancient Greek had to be male, and born of nobility. A young man had to do an "internship" with an older man of four years, generally between the ages of 12 and 16.

    That's right. EVERY citizen of Ancient Athens, was a homosexual.

    Yes I know and that is exactly what I wrote. To vote and hold office a person had to be a male Greek citizen

    FYI the Ancient Greek native born citizens had a class system. But they did not have “nobility” as feudal Japan and Europe had.

    Most of the wealthiest male Greek citizens were merchants and money lenders, not warriors and intellectuals.

    There was a class system but not a nobility. Greece had many slaves who wer not citizens. Like America, Greece was prosperous and powerful and attracted many immigrants.

    Most European countries did not extend the franchise all men until late in the 19th century. Some European countries did not extend the franchise to women until the mid 20th century

    Ancient Greece, like most countries restricted the franchise to male citizens.

    You really should only post about things you know. And you don’t know much about Ancient Greece. And don’t clip and paste some Wikipedia nonsense

    Even middle school kids are taught Wikipedia is not reliable.

    Greek men were gay and the adult men were given boys to groom and molest? It’s common knowledge. Think that wasn’t in my high school history books? Think agsin

    Read More
    • Replies: @Truth

    You really should only post about things you know. And you don’t know much about Ancient Greece.
     

    Greek men were gay and the adult men were given boys to groom and molest? It’s common knowledge.
     
    How can I not know much if I was right?

    And it certainly wasn't in my high school textbooks.
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  64. Alden says:
    @Wally
    Face up to the facts. Africa always has been and always will be utterly hopeless.
    There general IQ levels are to low to expect any productive change.
    Colonialism was the best thing that ever happened to them.

    In practically every instance where blacks are in great numbers, control the governments of cities, counties, regions, states, countries, & continents we see:

    massive murder rates
    massive crime in general
    degraded property
    massive disease, especially STDs
    massive drug abuse
    general filth, squalor
    massive, unable to support their own children, birthrates
    massive youth pregnancies rates
    massive school dropout rates
    incredibly low IQs & test scores
    violence as a way of life
    fathers nowhere to be found

    You are absolutely right

    Read More
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  65. Alden says:
    @Wally
    No they're working a deal with actual Africans. The "looting" can't happen without Africans participating.

    Just like slavery that would not have happened without Africans selling the slaves to outsiders.

    'African chiefs urged to apologise for slave trade
    Nigerian civil rights group says tribal leaders' ancestors sold people to slavers and should say sorry'
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/nov/18/africans-apologise-slave-trade

    "African chiefs were the ones waging war on each other and capturing their own people and selling them. If anyone should apologise it should be the African chiefs. We still have those traitors here even today."

    You mean like Goldman Sachs worked with a few Russians to loot the country in the 1990s? Good point.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wally
    And Russians should realize that many of their own, if the mostly Jew make-up of those thieves qualifies as Russian, were deeply involved and should not escape blame & punishment.

    Africans likewise cannot be absolved of guilt when in fact they have enabled the process.

    However, Russians are a generally smart people and have improved / are improving their lot.
    Sub-Saharan Africans as a group will never be successful. Their IQs are simply too low.

    Thanks.

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  66. @Truth
    I beg to differ here. There are charities that go %5 to the "African tyrants'" pockets, and %95 into the pockets of their caucasoid overseers.

    We can agree on where it ISN’T going.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Truth
    Right, and by the way, there is no such thing as US "Aid" to Africa, there are US "loans" to Africa which must be paid back with exorbitant interest.
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  67. Alden says:
    @Carroll Price
    I assume you are aware that ancient Egypt and classic Greek culture were both founded by Nordics from northern Europeans, and that both (like the United States) were destroyed by blacks who were imported as slaves and servants to the whites.

    I had no idea the Greeks imported black slaves. It’s not in any history book I’ve ever read. A communist Jew professor named Bernal of Cornell university did write a book, “ Black Athena” claiming that the ancient Greeks were black.

    Black suprenacists also claim that the ancient Greeks were black. Greek historians claim that Ancient Greece became part of the Roman Empire.

    Around 330Ad the Emperor of Rome split the empire into 2 parts, east and west. The eastern part was ruled from Greece. It was called the Byzantine Empire and lasted until around 1452 when it was conquered by Muslim Turks.

    At least that’s what the Greek historians say.

    They all refuted Bernal’s contention that there were black Africans in Ancient Greece.

    Read More
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  68. Truth says:
    @Alden
    Yes I know and that is exactly what I wrote. To vote and hold office a person had to be a male Greek citizen

    FYI the Ancient Greek native born citizens had a class system. But they did not have “nobility” as feudal Japan and Europe had.

    Most of the wealthiest male Greek citizens were merchants and money lenders, not warriors and intellectuals.

    There was a class system but not a nobility. Greece had many slaves who wer not citizens. Like America, Greece was prosperous and powerful and attracted many immigrants.

    Most European countries did not extend the franchise all men until late in the 19th century. Some European countries did not extend the franchise to women until the mid 20th century

    Ancient Greece, like most countries restricted the franchise to male citizens.

    You really should only post about things you know. And you don’t know much about Ancient Greece. And don’t clip and paste some Wikipedia nonsense

    Even middle school kids are taught Wikipedia is not reliable.

    Greek men were gay and the adult men were given boys to groom and molest? It’s common knowledge. Think that wasn’t in my high school history books? Think agsin

    You really should only post about things you know. And you don’t know much about Ancient Greece.

    Greek men were gay and the adult men were given boys to groom and molest? It’s common knowledge.

    How can I not know much if I was right?

    And it certainly wasn’t in my high school textbooks.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Alden
    Sounds like you have an unhealthy interest in homosexuality. Are you “ struggling” as the liberals say?

    And their sex lives had nothing to do with their definition of who was a citizen and who was not.
    , @Alden
    It was in mine and it’s such ordinary common knowledge it’s no big deal that you know about it.

    Next I suppose you will brag that you graduated from high school. Such an intellectual you are.
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  69. Truth says:
    @Rosamond Vincy
    We can agree on where it ISN'T going.

    Right, and by the way, there is no such thing as US “Aid” to Africa, there are US “loans” to Africa which must be paid back with exorbitant interest.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Alden
    Billions of dollars are outright given to African nations every year. Some of the money comes from on the government, some from the NGOs aka poverty pimp hustlers and other sources

    The Bill Gates Foundation gives the money Gates saves on taxes to African nations. Ophra gave millions to S Africa.
    There are many loans as well.
    Post about what you know.

    You might want to go back to salon or a BLM site

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  70. Malla says:
    @Bayan
    Given that blacks are involved in the numerous negative activities you listed, how is it that they survived for millennia?

    They must be doing somethings right.

    List them.

    how is it that they survived for millennia?

    In a pre Industrial society. And before the White man’s medicine, with 1/10th the population.

    Anyways if you are interested in African societies centuries ago, this is a must read.

    https://archive.org/stream/negroesinnegrola00helpiala/negroesinnegrola00helpiala_djvu.txt

    Read More
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  71. Bayan says:
    @Wally
    Face up to the facts. Africa always has been and always will be utterly hopeless.
    There general IQ levels are to low to expect any productive change.
    Colonialism was the best thing that ever happened to them.

    In practically every instance where blacks are in great numbers, control the governments of cities, counties, regions, states, countries, & continents we see:

    massive murder rates
    massive crime in general
    degraded property
    massive disease, especially STDs
    massive drug abuse
    general filth, squalor
    massive, unable to support their own children, birthrates
    massive youth pregnancies rates
    massive school dropout rates
    incredibly low IQs & test scores
    violence as a way of life
    fathers nowhere to be found

    Given that blacks are involved in the numerous negative activities you listed, how is it that they survived for millennia?

    They must be doing somethings right.

    List them, please.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wally
    I submit that as a race they have never done anything right.
    Nor will they, nor can they.

    They "survived" at the lowest level imaginable via crude, primative over breeding. Simple as that.

    My list stands.

    , @jilles dykstra
    Not enough room here for a list.
    European colonialism destroyed all highly developed African cultures.

    Who is willing to read about some of them:
    Jan Vansina, ‘The Children of Woot, A History of the Kuba Peoples’, 1978, Madison
    Jan Vansina, ‘Kingdoms of the savanna, A history of Central African states until the European occupation’, London 1966

    What Africans were capable of
    ‘The archaeology of Africa, Food, Metals and Towns’, ed. Shaw, Sinclair, Andah and Okpoko, London and New York 1993.
    What Africa lacked is iron ore, and coal, so iron was in fact a precious metal.
    But they did produce iron implements.
    Forgot which book describes the Timbuktu university and library.

    European colonialists were unable to believe that the imposing ruins in Zimbabwe were built by blacks, so they invented that Egyptians came from the north.
    To this day nobody understands the function of these buildings.

    It was the same in the former Dutch East Indies, the people living there were seen as stupid.
    Great commotion whan the Borobudur was unearthed.
    That there had been trade from these Indies with Africa for thousands of years, I wonder if any of our colonialists ever knew.

    Polynesian navigating skills over thousands of miles of open ocean are known now to have existed, but exactly how they did it, it no longer is known.
    Reading the waves, and wave patterns, was an essential skill.
    Had the 16th century European captains known, many a shipwreck could have been prevented.
    Guy Murchie, ‘Het lied van de lucht’, (Song of the sky, an exploration of the ocean of air, Boston), Bilthoven 1956
    , @neutral
    Those traits listed do not contradict the idea that they can produce more people than die off in various ways. I do not hide the fact here that I am a fascist, white nationalist, supporter of the Third Reich, etc, but I do have a grudging respect for black people. They have one thing that white people clearly have no more, the ability to survive and win the iron law of evolutionary success. That does not mean that the world they inherit will be some kind of techno futuristic utopia, it will be like all black places end up as - poor, savage and no where near to what whites once achieved.
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  72. Alden says:
    @Truth

    You really should only post about things you know. And you don’t know much about Ancient Greece.
     

    Greek men were gay and the adult men were given boys to groom and molest? It’s common knowledge.
     
    How can I not know much if I was right?

    And it certainly wasn't in my high school textbooks.

    Sounds like you have an unhealthy interest in homosexuality. Are you “ struggling” as the liberals say?

    And their sex lives had nothing to do with their definition of who was a citizen and who was not.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Truth

    Sounds like you have an unhealthy interest in homosexuality. Are you “ struggling” as the liberals say?
     
    Well no, Aldey, I'm not struggling with anything, that is my ultimate problem, I am one of the few %100 unabashed heterosexuals left in this great nation, that makes me a pariah.


    And their sex lives had nothing to do with their definition of who was a citizen and who was not.
     
    You're right babe, it was pure coincidence that every single citizen of ancient Athens had been buggered as a young boy.
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  73. Alden says:
    @Truth
    Right, and by the way, there is no such thing as US "Aid" to Africa, there are US "loans" to Africa which must be paid back with exorbitant interest.

    Billions of dollars are outright given to African nations every year. Some of the money comes from on the government, some from the NGOs aka poverty pimp hustlers and other sources

    The Bill Gates Foundation gives the money Gates saves on taxes to African nations. Ophra gave millions to S Africa.
    There are many loans as well.
    Post about what you know.

    You might want to go back to salon or a BLM site

    Read More
    • Replies: @Okechukwu

    Billions of dollars are outright given to African nations every year. Some of the money comes from on the government, some from the NGOs aka poverty pimp hustlers and other sources
     
    And how many tens of billions of dollars does the West take out of Africa, often via outright theft? There are verified reports of Western oil companies in Nigeria simply loading cargoes and leaving without paying with the connivance of corrupt dictators who they put in power. That's the very tip of the iceberg.

    Western food aid is a sham that does nothing but destroy the indigenous African farming industries. Both the EU and US heavily subsidize their farmers. Those farmers are then able to dump products in Africa which would otherwise get destroyed. How are African farmers supposed to compete against product dumping? At least the EU has recently started taking steps to remedy this situation.

    , @Truth

    Gates saves on taxes
     
    The operative 4 words in what you wrote.
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  74. Alden says:
    @Truth
    As I've told you simpletons 100x now, the Chinese can't take over Taiwan which is the size of Vermont. How are they going to take over Africa?

    The Chinese haven’t touched Tawain because doing so would involve them in a naval, air and infantry war with the United States.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Okechukwu

    The Chinese haven’t touched Tawain because doing so would involve them in a naval, air and infantry war with the United States.
     
    And the Chinese can't colonize Africa because, alas, they're not immune to the very same AK-47's that they mass produce and that are readily available to Africans. Like the European colonialists before them, the Chinese aren't bullet-proof.
    , @Truth
    Starting a war with anyone, anywhere would put them at the risk of naval, air and infantry war with the US. We run the streets and we decide who rumbles where.

    But they doesn't necessarily preclude them from trying it, now does it?
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  75. Alden says:

    TRUTH,

    Do you suffer from diabetes and depression?

    The symptoms Drs call irritability and volatility characterize both diseases.

    In laymen’s terms, volatility and irritability mean someone always looking for a fight and constantly arguing.

    Your posts lead me to suspect you suffer from either diabetes or depression.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Truth

    In laymen’s terms, volatility and irritability mean someone always looking for a fight and constantly arguing.
     
    Hold me back...HOLD ME BACK!!!
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  76. Alden says:
    @Truth

    You really should only post about things you know. And you don’t know much about Ancient Greece.
     

    Greek men were gay and the adult men were given boys to groom and molest? It’s common knowledge.
     
    How can I not know much if I was right?

    And it certainly wasn't in my high school textbooks.

    It was in mine and it’s such ordinary common knowledge it’s no big deal that you know about it.

    Next I suppose you will brag that you graduated from high school. Such an intellectual you are.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Truth
    (meekly) uh....well....actually...I kinda got a GED at 16...
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  77. Wally says: • Website
    @Bayan
    Given that blacks are involved in the numerous negative activities you listed, how is it that they survived for millennia?

    They must be doing somethings right.

    List them, please.

    I submit that as a race they have never done anything right.
    Nor will they, nor can they.

    They “survived” at the lowest level imaginable via crude, primative over breeding. Simple as that.

    My list stands.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Bayan
    Not a balanced response. You're mad about something. Please read jilles dykstra at #82.
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  78. Wally says:
    @Alden
    You mean like Goldman Sachs worked with a few Russians to loot the country in the 1990s? Good point.

    And Russians should realize that many of their own, if the mostly Jew make-up of those thieves qualifies as Russian, were deeply involved and should not escape blame & punishment.

    Africans likewise cannot be absolved of guilt when in fact they have enabled the process.

    However, Russians are a generally smart people and have improved / are improving their lot.
    Sub-Saharan Africans as a group will never be successful. Their IQs are simply too low.

    Thanks.

    Read More
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  79. Wally says: • Website
    @Truth
    Well yes, it has practically everything to do with it.

    Really?

    Then please explain.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Truth
    Well now, who had superior armed forces, Napoleon's French or the Russians he fought. Who had superior armed forces, Hitler's Germans or the Russians he fought? Ok, then it's not complicated.
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  80. Wally says:
    @Carroll Price
    I assume you are aware that ancient Egypt and classic Greek culture were both founded by Nordics from northern Europeans, and that both (like the United States) were destroyed by blacks who were imported as slaves and servants to the whites.

    I don’t doubt the racial changes of Greece & Egypt over time, but Greece with large scale black slavery is quite dubious.
    References?

    In the first place, slavery in the US, for the truly minute percentage of those who owned slaves, would never have happened if Africans hadn’t had slaves themselves, gather more, and sell them.

    African chiefs urged to apologise for slave trade
    Nigerian civil rights group says tribal leaders’ ancestors sold people to slavers and should say sorry

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/nov/18/africans-apologise-slave-trade

    “African chiefs were the ones waging war on each other and capturing their own people and selling them. If anyone should apologise it should be the African chiefs. We still have those traitors here even today.”

    Read More
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  81. @Alden
    All the male ethnically Greek citizens had a lot to say. They all voted. A lot of the political and government rotated amongst all male Greek citizens not just the rich

    The women, slaves, immigrants and foreigners could not vote. Nothing wrong with restricting the franchise to citizens only. I believe most countries have that law.

    2 Questions Jilles.

    When did the government of the Netherlands extend voting rights to women?

    When did the government of the Netherlands extend voting rights to all men, not just propert owners?

    I mean the modern Netherlands, not the wealthy merchants and landowners of the 1500 and 1600s Netherlands, but the modern Netherlands.

    Your little bits and pieces of superficial knowledge just shows how badly educated you are. American middle school text books are more knowledgeable about Ancient Greece than you

    What the Dutch situation has to do with my remarks is beyond me.

    When exactly all Dutch males got the vote I do not know, I do know that a poor great grandfather in 1897 was elected into the municipality, and that his enemy, the local Baron, had to leave.
    He, as far as I know, did not have to register as a voter, as is the situation with us to this day.

    Pity you do not read Dutch, otherwise you could see the influence of women in our 17th century:
    A.Th. van Deursen, ‘Een dorp in de polder, Graft in de 17e eeuw’, Amsterdam, 1998
    Gerda H. Kurtz, ‘Kenu Symonsdochter van Haerlem’, Assen, 1956

    But a help does exist
    D.J. Roorda, ‘Ambassadeur in de Lage Landen, William Temple, Observations upon the United Provinces’, Haarlem 1978
    Foreign visitors were amazed on how Dutch women had equal rights.
    or
    Margaret Gullan-Whur, ‘Within Reason, A Life of Spinoza’, London 1998
    Spinoza was flabbergasted that a Dutch girl of sixteen or so was literate in Latin.

    About the Greek city states
    Jacob Burckhardt, ‘Staat, religie en cultuur in wereldhistorisch perspectief’, 1905, 1995, Kampen (Weltgeschichtliche Betrachtungen).
    Burckhardt was a professor in Basel, if I remember correctly.
    The book was written after his death by his students from notes, at the time the Greeks were seen, as by some fools to this day, as champions of democracy.
    Burckhardt did not dare to publicise his views.

    Burckhardt explains how the Greek city states were terrible places to live, ‘no escape was possible’.
    His descriptions explain the suicides, ordered or ‘voluntary’, and the Greek drama.

    Your problem is that you accept textbooks at face value.
    In reality textbooks are to a large extent propaganda.

    When I was in primary school the propaganda stories of Ceasar on the barbarians he subjugated still were believed at face value.
    Excavations changed this thoroughly.
    If you want to see with your own eyes what these barbarians were capable off visit the Kelten Museum in Halle Austria.

    Do you also still believe the USA Civil War was about liberating the slaves ?
    In reality the liberated slaves were worse off as industrial workers than as slaves.

    Read More
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  82. @Bayan
    Given that blacks are involved in the numerous negative activities you listed, how is it that they survived for millennia?

    They must be doing somethings right.

    List them, please.

    Not enough room here for a list.
    European colonialism destroyed all highly developed African cultures.

    Who is willing to read about some of them:
    Jan Vansina, ‘The Children of Woot, A History of the Kuba Peoples’, 1978, Madison
    Jan Vansina, ‘Kingdoms of the savanna, A history of Central African states until the European occupation’, London 1966

    What Africans were capable of
    ‘The archaeology of Africa, Food, Metals and Towns’, ed. Shaw, Sinclair, Andah and Okpoko, London and New York 1993.
    What Africa lacked is iron ore, and coal, so iron was in fact a precious metal.
    But they did produce iron implements.
    Forgot which book describes the Timbuktu university and library.

    European colonialists were unable to believe that the imposing ruins in Zimbabwe were built by blacks, so they invented that Egyptians came from the north.
    To this day nobody understands the function of these buildings.

    It was the same in the former Dutch East Indies, the people living there were seen as stupid.
    Great commotion whan the Borobudur was unearthed.
    That there had been trade from these Indies with Africa for thousands of years, I wonder if any of our colonialists ever knew.

    Polynesian navigating skills over thousands of miles of open ocean are known now to have existed, but exactly how they did it, it no longer is known.
    Reading the waves, and wave patterns, was an essential skill.
    Had the 16th century European captains known, many a shipwreck could have been prevented.
    Guy Murchie, ‘Het lied van de lucht’, (Song of the sky, an exploration of the ocean of air, Boston), Bilthoven 1956

    Read More
    • Replies: @lavoisier
    Interesting sources of information.

    But something gets lost in translation when you fall back on the usual and predictable liberal canard that multiple advanced black civilizations were destroyed by whitey.

    I am no fan of colonialism or the subjugation of people. But it is nothing more than foolishness to claim that European colonization destroyed advanced African cultures. Colonization was about making money. If African civilizations were so advanced the colonizers would have worked to milk that civilization for its riches and innovative practices in trade and navigation. It would have not have been in their interests to destroy those cultures.

    Please explain in greater detail how whitey destroyed African civilizations? And what did whitey gain in the process of that destruction?
    , @Wally
    So where are these "highly developed"achievements to actually see?
    Please show us "highly developed" sub-Saharan African:

    - medicine / healthcare
    - transportation vehicles & systems
    - architecture
    - legal systems
    - "imposing ruins in Zimbabwe", LOL
    - mathematics
    - writing
    - historical texts
    - scientific texts
    - astronomy
    - "Timbuktu university and library", LOL
    But wow, they did make those cute masks.

    On & on it goes. All bankrupt leftist talk it is.
    I can give you citations for books which allege witchcraft & sorcery, but like your references, they are pure fantasy and wishful thinking.

    Your desperate deflection to Dutch East Indies & Polynesians is noted.
    Neither of which did a whole lot more. But hey, someone said they did.

    You've really taken the leftist bait, hook, line, & sinker.

    , @Alden
    The ruins in Zimbabwe are the remains of an Arab slave trading fort, African slaves sent to Arab lands further north.

    Timbuktu library was a collection of Koran’s, nothing else. The trade routes changed, the desert expanded and Timbuktu became a ruin 600 years ago.
    there is still slavery in Timbuktu . It may have been abolished in 1960 due to a massive bribe from the UN but it never ended.

    All your anti western propaganda may have been new and exciting when you met your Marxist professors in 1950 but is really outdated today.

    Americans have other things to worry about than medieval slave trading Arab forts in Zimbabwe.

    Where do you live, some village where everyone but you dropped out of school at age 10? Is that where your pseudo intellectual snobbery comes from?

    Do you think you are the only person in the world who ever read a history book?

    You are not.

    , @Alden
    We’re you friends with Obana’s Mother when she was pursuing her PHD thesis on Indonesian blacksmiths?
    I bet you are a fan of Rousseau as well.
    Old liberals like you are a joke.
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  83. neutral says:
    @Bayan
    Given that blacks are involved in the numerous negative activities you listed, how is it that they survived for millennia?

    They must be doing somethings right.

    List them, please.

    Those traits listed do not contradict the idea that they can produce more people than die off in various ways. I do not hide the fact here that I am a fascist, white nationalist, supporter of the Third Reich, etc, but I do have a grudging respect for black people. They have one thing that white people clearly have no more, the ability to survive and win the iron law of evolutionary success. That does not mean that the world they inherit will be some kind of techno futuristic utopia, it will be like all black places end up as – poor, savage and no where near to what whites once achieved.

    Read More
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  84. Okechukwu says:

    Your typical white supremacist dimwit is caught in the grip of a dichotomy. On the one hand they are enthusiastic cheerleaders for African failure. Yet on the other hand they don’t want Africans in their countries. Well, duh… people tend to flee failing societies. That’s why most of them are in America and elsewhere, their ancestors having fled failed European basketcases.

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  85. Okechukwu says: • Website
    @Tim
    This is a good article. But I think the Chinese are setting Africa up. They see Africa for what it is and always has been--a slave factory. The Chinese are taking over Africa and they will not be burdened by any of these hand-wringing emotions Westerners have.

    They will just take Africa, bend it to their will and use it for what it is meant to be used as, slave labor.

    This is a good article. But I think the Chinese are setting Africa up. They see Africa for what it is and always has been–a slave factory. The Chinese are taking over Africa and they will not be burdened by any of these hand-wringing emotions Westerners have.

    You clowns have been preaching this mantra for years now. When exactly is China going to enslave the Africans? And if they tried, why wouldn’t the Africans simply cut them up into little pieces and send them back to China?

    Give it a rest with this bullshit. You failed in Africa because you incorrectly presumed yourselves to be superior and you went there to oppress, exploit and dominate rather than to foster mutually beneficial relationships. China has your playbook and they do not intend to make the same mistakes, even if they wanted to. Besides, why shouldn’t China benefit in Africa? They helped African freedom fighters with arms and training to overthrow the white supremacist scumbags.

    Which brings to mind, we have to seriously evaluate the efficacy of IQ testing. Imagine “high IQ” whites who were nevertheless too dumb to understand that relegating the majority population to second class citizen status would not come with it prospects for longterm survival. It seems to be that those braindead whites were far dumber than the “70 IQ” Africans.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Truth

    Which brings to mind, we have to seriously evaluate the efficacy of IQ testing. Imagine “high IQ” whites who were nevertheless too dumb to understand that relegating the majority population to second class citizen status would not come with it prospects for longterm survival. It seems to be that those braindead whites were far dumber than the “70 IQ” Africans.
     
    Now you see, my soul brother hit it on the head!

    And that's what Thomm as been telling you White Trationalists for weeks...

    heh...heh...heh...heh..
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  86. Che Guava says:
    @Jake
    The SPLC, the ADL and Black Lives Matter thank you for attacking Ilana Mercer.

    Why? I like much of her writing. How do you know that she, and or her father, are not sympathetic with the groups you name? Both likely so, in the case of the former two at least. Your comment is idiotic.

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  87. Okechukwu says:
    @Alden
    The Chinese haven’t touched Tawain because doing so would involve them in a naval, air and infantry war with the United States.

    The Chinese haven’t touched Tawain because doing so would involve them in a naval, air and infantry war with the United States.

    And the Chinese can’t colonize Africa because, alas, they’re not immune to the very same AK-47′s that they mass produce and that are readily available to Africans. Like the European colonialists before them, the Chinese aren’t bullet-proof.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Fredrik
    Unlike the Europeans the Chinese won't be afraid to use their own weapons on anyone threatening.
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  88. Okechukwu says:
    @Alden
    Billions of dollars are outright given to African nations every year. Some of the money comes from on the government, some from the NGOs aka poverty pimp hustlers and other sources

    The Bill Gates Foundation gives the money Gates saves on taxes to African nations. Ophra gave millions to S Africa.
    There are many loans as well.
    Post about what you know.

    You might want to go back to salon or a BLM site

    Billions of dollars are outright given to African nations every year. Some of the money comes from on the government, some from the NGOs aka poverty pimp hustlers and other sources

    And how many tens of billions of dollars does the West take out of Africa, often via outright theft? There are verified reports of Western oil companies in Nigeria simply loading cargoes and leaving without paying with the connivance of corrupt dictators who they put in power. That’s the very tip of the iceberg.

    Western food aid is a sham that does nothing but destroy the indigenous African farming industries. Both the EU and US heavily subsidize their farmers. Those farmers are then able to dump products in Africa which would otherwise get destroyed. How are African farmers supposed to compete against product dumping? At least the EU has recently started taking steps to remedy this situation.

    Read More
    • Replies: @jack daniels
    I suspect you are both right. The west loots African resources but at the same time western taxpayers route earnings to governments that route them to NGOs and African recipients who then spend money in ways that generate profits for sleazy outside investors.
    , @Wally
    What "theft"?
    The West buys what Africa sells.
    Simple stuff really.

    Show us your "verified reports". As if anyone could simply load a tanker with oil without paying, without being noticed, without being approved for port departure.
    Show us the "verified reports".

    "Indigenous" farming? Don't make me laugh.
    They are capable of feeding only a small percentage of Africans.
    Show us verifiable data on your unfounded "dumping"

    I'm calling you out. I say you are merely an empty leftist.
    Africa long ago ran out of excuses for their complete failure as have Marxists like yourself.

    Cheers.

    , @Malla

    And how many tens of billions of dollars does the West take out of Africa, often via outright theft? There are verified reports of Western oil companies in Nigeria simply loading cargoes and leaving without paying with the connivance of corrupt dictators who they put in power. That’s the very tip of the iceberg.
     
    That is true, but is it the globalist elites who not only loot African countries but also loot White tax payers in so called aid. The elites make their profits and the cost is given to the White tax payers. And now a days the globalist elites do not even pay much tax in first world countries and use tax heavens to escape taxation as much as possible. It is total scam.

    Both the EU and US heavily subsidize their farmers. Those farmers are then able to dump products in Africa which would otherwise get destroyed. How are African farmers supposed to compete against product dumping?
     
    The US, EU, Japan have to subsidize the farmers because only that will keep farming profitable in the first world, where the costs of living is much higher than the third world. Very few people in the first world will take farming as a profession otherwise.
    As far as dumping food into the African market, of course that is wrong. African farmers should be encouraged to feed the African market. Only if there is crop failure in some emergency, should food aid be given.
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  89. Fredrik says:
    @Okechukwu

    The Chinese haven’t touched Tawain because doing so would involve them in a naval, air and infantry war with the United States.
     
    And the Chinese can't colonize Africa because, alas, they're not immune to the very same AK-47's that they mass produce and that are readily available to Africans. Like the European colonialists before them, the Chinese aren't bullet-proof.

    Unlike the Europeans the Chinese won’t be afraid to use their own weapons on anyone threatening.

    Read More
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  90. Okechukwu says:

    Unlike the Europeans the Chinese won’t be afraid to use their own weapons on anyone threatening.

    The Rhodesians were as brutal as can be. They bombed and shelled indiscriminately. Massacred civilians, tortured people, burned down villages and herded people into concentration camps. They even resorted to chemical warfare. But in the end they still got their asses kicked.

    The Portuguese were equally ruthless and brutal, as were the Boers. Let’s just say that all European colonizers in Africa were genocidal, murdering, thieving savages.

    China doesn’t want to colonize Africa. That’s just a white supremacist fantasy. But if they tried they’d fail miserably. Consider the problems the United States and NATO have had in defeating 2,000 Taliban goat herders. That should clue you in as to how difficult it is to subdue and repress people in the modern era.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Malla

    But in the end they still got their asses kicked.
     
    No they did not. Rhodesia was brought down by the U.S.A and Britain.
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  91. Policy decisions by Africans and interested westerners must take into account the continent’s permanent victim status. Indeed, like America’s inner cities, Africa’s dysfunction is an important source of jobs and investment opportunities for the helper/ social justice industry and its fellow travelers. NGOs and philanthropists can be counted on to pump in people and money stretching into the infinite future. Fire breathing radicals of the ANC will quietly cut pussycat deals with global capitalists like the DeBeers owners. Meanwhile others will look for ways to siphon off aid money, as in Nigeria. The scam goes that aid money is used to seed African businesses and ensure a supply of customers, generating a profit which goes to the business’s worldwide hedge fund investors. It’s a crazy world, but old-fashioned economic moralism is just wishful thinking where professional victims are concerned. The chickens will never come home to roost if they know what’s good for them. Best to get out, if you live there, and ignore the place if you don’t.

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  92. @Okechukwu

    Billions of dollars are outright given to African nations every year. Some of the money comes from on the government, some from the NGOs aka poverty pimp hustlers and other sources
     
    And how many tens of billions of dollars does the West take out of Africa, often via outright theft? There are verified reports of Western oil companies in Nigeria simply loading cargoes and leaving without paying with the connivance of corrupt dictators who they put in power. That's the very tip of the iceberg.

    Western food aid is a sham that does nothing but destroy the indigenous African farming industries. Both the EU and US heavily subsidize their farmers. Those farmers are then able to dump products in Africa which would otherwise get destroyed. How are African farmers supposed to compete against product dumping? At least the EU has recently started taking steps to remedy this situation.

    I suspect you are both right. The west loots African resources but at the same time western taxpayers route earnings to governments that route them to NGOs and African recipients who then spend money in ways that generate profits for sleazy outside investors.

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  93. Wally says:
    @Okechukwu

    Billions of dollars are outright given to African nations every year. Some of the money comes from on the government, some from the NGOs aka poverty pimp hustlers and other sources
     
    And how many tens of billions of dollars does the West take out of Africa, often via outright theft? There are verified reports of Western oil companies in Nigeria simply loading cargoes and leaving without paying with the connivance of corrupt dictators who they put in power. That's the very tip of the iceberg.

    Western food aid is a sham that does nothing but destroy the indigenous African farming industries. Both the EU and US heavily subsidize their farmers. Those farmers are then able to dump products in Africa which would otherwise get destroyed. How are African farmers supposed to compete against product dumping? At least the EU has recently started taking steps to remedy this situation.

    What “theft”?
    The West buys what Africa sells.
    Simple stuff really.

    Show us your “verified reports”. As if anyone could simply load a tanker with oil without paying, without being noticed, without being approved for port departure.
    Show us the “verified reports”.

    “Indigenous” farming? Don’t make me laugh.
    They are capable of feeding only a small percentage of Africans.
    Show us verifiable data on your unfounded “dumping”

    I’m calling you out. I say you are merely an empty leftist.
    Africa long ago ran out of excuses for their complete failure as have Marxists like yourself.

    Cheers.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Okechukwu

    Show us your “verified reports”. As if anyone could simply load a tanker with oil without paying, without being noticed, without being approved for port departure.
    Show us the “verified reports”
     
    Haha. Another person here that has no inkling of the machinations of international business. For one thing, equity oil producers in Nigeria aren't necessarily monitored. They're known for taking millions of barrels of Nigerian oil without payment. They produce the oil and the loading and transportation facilities are owned by them. They are contractually obligated to return to Nigeria 60% of what they produce. But 60% of what is the question.

    With respect to verified corruption, here are a few tidbits:

    Investigators in Nigeria and in Italy claim that $1.1bn – which was paid to the government by international oil companies in 2006 – never made it into the national coffers.

    Instead, they say, it ended up in the hands of a middleman called Dan Etete and his company Malabu Oil.

    The money recovered is a tiny fraction of the amount allegedly taken but a coup for the government nonetheless.

    Since he came to office in 2015 President Muhammadu Buhari has been on a drive to repatriate money lost to corruption, much of which is spent in the US and the UK.

    Earlier this year, Italian prosecutors took up the case against ENI and Shell for their alleged part in the scandal.

    http://clubofmozambique.com/news/nigeria-recovers-millions-stolen-in-oil-scandal/

    Swiss-based commodity traders are profiting from “opaque joint ventures” with the Nigerian national oil company, according to a report by the Swiss non-governmental Berne Declaration group. The traders have denied the charge.

    “Every year Nigerian state coffers lose billions of dollars as large volumes of oil are exported for well below market price and the subsidy scheme for imports of refined crude oil products is systematically defrauded,” the Berne Declaration said in a press release on Monday detailing its report.

    “Ongoing investigations by the Nigerian authorities show that those Swiss traders dominant in oil exports have been making good business with dubious Nigerian import firms,” the NGO says.

    Although Nigeria is oil rich, it does not have its own refining capacities, and as a result has to import refined products. The import business is heavily subsidised.

    The Berne Declaration claims that $6.8 billion (CHF6.2 billion) of unjustifiable subsidies were paid out in 2009 and 2011 – the equivalent of nearly four times the Nigerian health budget for 2013.

    https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/traders-collude-in-oil-corruption--says-swiss-ngo/37260152

    “Indigenous” farming? Don’t make me laugh.
    They are capable of feeding only a small percentage of Africans.
    Show us verifiable data on your unfounded “dumping”
     
    Certainly.

    Rich nations are spending $250 billion (161.76 billion pound) annually subsidizing their agricultural sectors to the detriment of poor farmers as they artificially lower prices for some crops and block market access for growers from poor countries, a new study said.

    Japan spends 59 times as much supporting its own farmers than on food aid and nutrition support, while countries in the European Union spend 42 times as much and the United States spends 16 times as much, the Brookings Institution study said.

    “There are a lot of ways countries can give artificial support for their own farmers, hurting farmers in Asian or African countries who could supply that (product) for better value,” McArthur told the Thomson Reuters Foundation.

    https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-farming-subsidies/rich-nations-spend-250-billion-on-farm-subsidies-hurting-poor-growers-study-idUKKCN0SA2BF20151016

    Critics of US food aid subsidies say they help cause obesity among Americans and starvation among Africans.

    Now Care, one of the world's biggest charities, has announced that it will boycott the controversial policy of selling tons of heavily subsidised US produced food in African countries. Care wants the US government to send money to buy food locally, rather than unwanted US produced food.

    The farm lobby meanwhile has a stranglehold on Congress, which has balked at making any changes that would interfere with a system that promotes overproduction of commodities.

    Critics of the policy say it also undermines African farmers' ability to produce food, making the most vulnerable countries of the world even more dependent on aid to avert famine.

    Under the system Washington buys tens of millions of dollars of surplus corn and other products from agribusiness. The food, which can only be exported on US flagged ships, is then sold by charities to raise money to pay for emergencies.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/us-food-aid-is-wrecking-africa-claims-charity-5334550.html
    , @Kolo
    Your are indeed a wally
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  94. It would of course be easy to jump on this band wagon about Africa. But I prefer to be optimistic. The continent as a whole is relatively peaceful by comparison of European and Asian state development. The chaos, political intrigue, murder and wars that ravage all of Europe and Asia – even the Middle East, have not yet materialized since the end of colonialism.

    I am a fan of democracy. But that is because I live in a system that has left its wars of wholesale devastation and the Europeans have all but exhausted themselves in the process. But the world we live in is not the result of cake and tea party sessions. it is the other side of blood and intrigue and hypocrisy. And given the last 16 plus years, it’s hard to point fingers about the grip western societies have on democracy.

    One other observation — democracy may be the worst system to begin building or rebuilding a society as mangled as those on that vast continent. But I think Africa should not give a resource at their own expense. They should avoid being manipulated into creating oligarchs that prevent growth by hording wealth. they should reject getting hoodwinked into climate change and global warming guilt trips and build their own airports, jets, cars, housing, nuclear power plants and all things that make a state successful and able to defend itself.

    And for gosh sakes avoid the western medical tirades about HIV coming from eating monkey brains.

    The continent of Africa should shun all things driven to guilt trip them into whatever gambit the west or asia is selling.

    They should avoid any aspirations of becoming like Mexico.

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  95. I look forward to the day when some African state stands up and says,

    “Africa is for Africans.”

    Read More
    • Replies: @Ed
    Only black Africans are allowed citizenship in Liberia. It’s the 4th poorest country in the world so not sure if anyone much cares though.

    Nkrumah is probably as pan-African as you’re going to get.
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  96. Fredrik says:
    @Alden
    I always ignore Mercer.

    Only reason I looked at this one is the outfits the girls wear. Are they school uniforms?

    If so they are the prettiest uniforms I’ve seen in my life other than Norte Dame des Victoires in San Francisco.

    The medium blue is perfect for brown skin girls. I just love the skirts. The white dots are so cute, much better than the standard plaid.

    This is attire for the opposition party Democratic Alliance(DA). DA is the party most whites(and certainly English speakers) vote for.

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  97. Truth says:
    @Alden
    It was in mine and it’s such ordinary common knowledge it’s no big deal that you know about it.

    Next I suppose you will brag that you graduated from high school. Such an intellectual you are.

    (meekly) uh….well….actually…I kinda got a GED at 16…

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  98. Bayan says:
    @Wally
    I submit that as a race they have never done anything right.
    Nor will they, nor can they.

    They "survived" at the lowest level imaginable via crude, primative over breeding. Simple as that.

    My list stands.

    Not a balanced response. You’re mad about something. Please read jilles dykstra at #82.

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  99. Truth says:
    @Wally
    Really?

    Then please explain.

    Well now, who had superior armed forces, Napoleon’s French or the Russians he fought. Who had superior armed forces, Hitler’s Germans or the Russians he fought? Ok, then it’s not complicated.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wally
    You are making no sense again.
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  100. Okechukwu says:
    @Wally
    What "theft"?
    The West buys what Africa sells.
    Simple stuff really.

    Show us your "verified reports". As if anyone could simply load a tanker with oil without paying, without being noticed, without being approved for port departure.
    Show us the "verified reports".

    "Indigenous" farming? Don't make me laugh.
    They are capable of feeding only a small percentage of Africans.
    Show us verifiable data on your unfounded "dumping"

    I'm calling you out. I say you are merely an empty leftist.
    Africa long ago ran out of excuses for their complete failure as have Marxists like yourself.

    Cheers.

    Show us your “verified reports”. As if anyone could simply load a tanker with oil without paying, without being noticed, without being approved for port departure.
    Show us the “verified reports”

    Haha. Another person here that has no inkling of the machinations of international business. For one thing, equity oil producers in Nigeria aren’t necessarily monitored. They’re known for taking millions of barrels of Nigerian oil without payment. They produce the oil and the loading and transportation facilities are owned by them. They are contractually obligated to return to Nigeria 60% of what they produce. But 60% of what is the question.

    With respect to verified corruption, here are a few tidbits:

    Investigators in Nigeria and in Italy claim that $1.1bn – which was paid to the government by international oil companies in 2006 – never made it into the national coffers.

    Instead, they say, it ended up in the hands of a middleman called Dan Etete and his company Malabu Oil.

    The money recovered is a tiny fraction of the amount allegedly taken but a coup for the government nonetheless.

    Since he came to office in 2015 President Muhammadu Buhari has been on a drive to repatriate money lost to corruption, much of which is spent in the US and the UK.

    Earlier this year, Italian prosecutors took up the case against ENI and Shell for their alleged part in the scandal.

    http://clubofmozambique.com/news/nigeria-recovers-millions-stolen-in-oil-scandal/

    Swiss-based commodity traders are profiting from “opaque joint ventures” with the Nigerian national oil company, according to a report by the Swiss non-governmental Berne Declaration group. The traders have denied the charge.

    “Every year Nigerian state coffers lose billions of dollars as large volumes of oil are exported for well below market price and the subsidy scheme for imports of refined crude oil products is systematically defrauded,” the Berne Declaration said in a press release on Monday detailing its report.

    “Ongoing investigations by the Nigerian authorities show that those Swiss traders dominant in oil exports have been making good business with dubious Nigerian import firms,” the NGO says.

    Although Nigeria is oil rich, it does not have its own refining capacities, and as a result has to import refined products. The import business is heavily subsidised.

    The Berne Declaration claims that $6.8 billion (CHF6.2 billion) of unjustifiable subsidies were paid out in 2009 and 2011 – the equivalent of nearly four times the Nigerian health budget for 2013.

    https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/traders-collude-in-oil-corruption–says-swiss-ngo/37260152

    “Indigenous” farming? Don’t make me laugh.
    They are capable of feeding only a small percentage of Africans.
    Show us verifiable data on your unfounded “dumping”

    Certainly.

    Rich nations are spending $250 billion (161.76 billion pound) annually subsidizing their agricultural sectors to the detriment of poor farmers as they artificially lower prices for some crops and block market access for growers from poor countries, a new study said.

    Japan spends 59 times as much supporting its own farmers than on food aid and nutrition support, while countries in the European Union spend 42 times as much and the United States spends 16 times as much, the Brookings Institution study said.

    “There are a lot of ways countries can give artificial support for their own farmers, hurting farmers in Asian or African countries who could supply that (product) for better value,” McArthur told the Thomson Reuters Foundation.

    https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-farming-subsidies/rich-nations-spend-250-billion-on-farm-subsidies-hurting-poor-growers-study-idUKKCN0SA2BF20151016

    Critics of US food aid subsidies say they help cause obesity among Americans and starvation among Africans.

    Now Care, one of the world’s biggest charities, has announced that it will boycott the controversial policy of selling tons of heavily subsidised US produced food in African countries. Care wants the US government to send money to buy food locally, rather than unwanted US produced food.

    The farm lobby meanwhile has a stranglehold on Congress, which has balked at making any changes that would interfere with a system that promotes overproduction of commodities.

    Critics of the policy say it also undermines African farmers’ ability to produce food, making the most vulnerable countries of the world even more dependent on aid to avert famine.

    Under the system Washington buys tens of millions of dollars of surplus corn and other products from agribusiness. The food, which can only be exported on US flagged ships, is then sold by charities to raise money to pay for emergencies.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/us-food-aid-is-wrecking-africa-claims-charity-5334550.html

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    • Replies: @Wally
    That's your rebuttal? Seriously?

    You noted a few instances of ALLEGED activities by those who benefit greatly from making those false allegations. There are no international law convictions, no proof of massive activities. All just nickel & dime stuff. But hey, that's how empty leftist talk rolls.

    You also failed to read that the relatively small amount of oil was recovered, and it was black AFRICANS who were involved in the theft to begin with. LOL

    You have also failed to show that black African farmers (white farmers in Africa have all been murdered) have even the capability to produce the volume needed to feed the ignorant & over breeding black African population. You also fail to mention that by 'complaining', the incompetent dumb black African farmers are actually seeking free cash (aka: 'subsidies') from the UN & other 'aid' organizations'. Quite a scam going on there.

    Better luck next time,

    , @Ed
    That Nigeria is so corrupt and is a weak state is not the fault of oil companies. If some govt official, general says to a company you pay me or your oil doesn’t ship out, that’s not the company’s fault.

    I do think that NGOs should leave and product dumping (you neglected to point out China’s dumping in rice and textiles ) should be addressed. I do believe Nigeria has banned some food imports in the hope of stoking domestic productions but I’ve read power and transport reliability remain a problem. Dangote had an eye opening interview about the issues he faces in doing business in Nigeria. He is bullish on Nigerian agriculture but note he doesn’t cite any of the issues you cited. He blames the Nigerian government.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2017-aliko-dangote-interview/
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  101. Truth says:
    @Okechukwu

    This is a good article. But I think the Chinese are setting Africa up. They see Africa for what it is and always has been–a slave factory. The Chinese are taking over Africa and they will not be burdened by any of these hand-wringing emotions Westerners have.
     
    You clowns have been preaching this mantra for years now. When exactly is China going to enslave the Africans? And if they tried, why wouldn't the Africans simply cut them up into little pieces and send them back to China?

    Give it a rest with this bullshit. You failed in Africa because you incorrectly presumed yourselves to be superior and you went there to oppress, exploit and dominate rather than to foster mutually beneficial relationships. China has your playbook and they do not intend to make the same mistakes, even if they wanted to. Besides, why shouldn't China benefit in Africa? They helped African freedom fighters with arms and training to overthrow the white supremacist scumbags.

    Which brings to mind, we have to seriously evaluate the efficacy of IQ testing. Imagine "high IQ" whites who were nevertheless too dumb to understand that relegating the majority population to second class citizen status would not come with it prospects for longterm survival. It seems to be that those braindead whites were far dumber than the "70 IQ" Africans.

    Which brings to mind, we have to seriously evaluate the efficacy of IQ testing. Imagine “high IQ” whites who were nevertheless too dumb to understand that relegating the majority population to second class citizen status would not come with it prospects for longterm survival. It seems to be that those braindead whites were far dumber than the “70 IQ” Africans.

    Now you see, my soul brother hit it on the head!

    And that’s what Thomm as been telling you White Trationalists for weeks…

    heh…heh…heh…heh..

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  102. Truth says:
    @Alden
    Sounds like you have an unhealthy interest in homosexuality. Are you “ struggling” as the liberals say?

    And their sex lives had nothing to do with their definition of who was a citizen and who was not.

    Sounds like you have an unhealthy interest in homosexuality. Are you “ struggling” as the liberals say?

    Well no, Aldey, I’m not struggling with anything, that is my ultimate problem, I am one of the few %100 unabashed heterosexuals left in this great nation, that makes me a pariah.

    And their sex lives had nothing to do with their definition of who was a citizen and who was not.

    You’re right babe, it was pure coincidence that every single citizen of ancient Athens had been buggered as a young boy.

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  103. Truth says:
    @Alden
    Billions of dollars are outright given to African nations every year. Some of the money comes from on the government, some from the NGOs aka poverty pimp hustlers and other sources

    The Bill Gates Foundation gives the money Gates saves on taxes to African nations. Ophra gave millions to S Africa.
    There are many loans as well.
    Post about what you know.

    You might want to go back to salon or a BLM site

    Gates saves on taxes

    The operative 4 words in what you wrote.

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  104. Truth says:
    @Alden
    The Chinese haven’t touched Tawain because doing so would involve them in a naval, air and infantry war with the United States.

    Starting a war with anyone, anywhere would put them at the risk of naval, air and infantry war with the US. We run the streets and we decide who rumbles where.

    But they doesn’t necessarily preclude them from trying it, now does it?

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  105. Truth says:
    @Alden
    TRUTH,

    Do you suffer from diabetes and depression?

    The symptoms Drs call irritability and volatility characterize both diseases.

    In laymen’s terms, volatility and irritability mean someone always looking for a fight and constantly arguing.

    Your posts lead me to suspect you suffer from either diabetes or depression.

    In laymen’s terms, volatility and irritability mean someone always looking for a fight and constantly arguing.

    Hold me back…HOLD ME BACK!!!

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  106. VICB3 says:

    More and more it looks like the only way to save Africa is to get rid of the Africans.

    Not PC, but there, I’ve said it.

    Just a thought.

    VicB3

    Read More
    • Replies: @Okechukwu

    More and more it looks like the only way to save Africa is to get rid of the Africans.
     
    Okey Dokey. But unfortunately, your keyboard doesn't have those kinds of magical powers.
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  107. Okechukwu says:
    @VICB3
    More and more it looks like the only way to save Africa is to get rid of the Africans.

    Not PC, but there, I've said it.

    Just a thought.

    VicB3

    More and more it looks like the only way to save Africa is to get rid of the Africans.

    Okey Dokey. But unfortunately, your keyboard doesn’t have those kinds of magical powers.

    Read More
    • LOL: Truth
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  108. joe webb says:

    see later comment at bottom on Africa.

    Fw: NYTimes.com: Kazakhstan Prizes Its Cowboys, but Few Want to Saddle Up for Harsh Life. ( speaking of harsh life…look here at bride theft/kidnapping) )

    The average IQ of Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan is 75.7 per Richard Lynn’s RACE DIFFERENCES IN INTELLIGENCE ( 2015 ), P.130.

    The kind of thing these folks cannot but can do like stealing women, is answer a simple question like. “”There are no camels in Germany; the city B in Germany is in Germany, are there camels there?,,,typical answer from these folks is,” I don’t know , I have never seen German cities. If city B is a large city, there should be camels there.”

    So, I guess this part of the world is too far south to have gotten the Ice Age treatment. Africa, which is about as far south, in general, as to have reaped the benefits of no need to figure out how to stay warm, etc. now enjoys an average IQ of 70.

    The AFRICAN response to the above question would be: “Camels could be in city B in Germany since I will ride my camel there soon for free money and free pussy. There are many Africans there who own camels.”

    Joe Webb

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/30/world/asia/kazakhstan-cowboys.html

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  109. lavoisier says: • Website
    @jilles dykstra
    Not enough room here for a list.
    European colonialism destroyed all highly developed African cultures.

    Who is willing to read about some of them:
    Jan Vansina, ‘The Children of Woot, A History of the Kuba Peoples’, 1978, Madison
    Jan Vansina, ‘Kingdoms of the savanna, A history of Central African states until the European occupation’, London 1966

    What Africans were capable of
    ‘The archaeology of Africa, Food, Metals and Towns’, ed. Shaw, Sinclair, Andah and Okpoko, London and New York 1993.
    What Africa lacked is iron ore, and coal, so iron was in fact a precious metal.
    But they did produce iron implements.
    Forgot which book describes the Timbuktu university and library.

    European colonialists were unable to believe that the imposing ruins in Zimbabwe were built by blacks, so they invented that Egyptians came from the north.
    To this day nobody understands the function of these buildings.

    It was the same in the former Dutch East Indies, the people living there were seen as stupid.
    Great commotion whan the Borobudur was unearthed.
    That there had been trade from these Indies with Africa for thousands of years, I wonder if any of our colonialists ever knew.

    Polynesian navigating skills over thousands of miles of open ocean are known now to have existed, but exactly how they did it, it no longer is known.
    Reading the waves, and wave patterns, was an essential skill.
    Had the 16th century European captains known, many a shipwreck could have been prevented.
    Guy Murchie, ‘Het lied van de lucht’, (Song of the sky, an exploration of the ocean of air, Boston), Bilthoven 1956

    Interesting sources of information.

    But something gets lost in translation when you fall back on the usual and predictable liberal canard that multiple advanced black civilizations were destroyed by whitey.

    I am no fan of colonialism or the subjugation of people. But it is nothing more than foolishness to claim that European colonization destroyed advanced African cultures. Colonization was about making money. If African civilizations were so advanced the colonizers would have worked to milk that civilization for its riches and innovative practices in trade and navigation. It would have not have been in their interests to destroy those cultures.

    Please explain in greater detail how whitey destroyed African civilizations? And what did whitey gain in the process of that destruction?

    Read More
    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
    See history of the american colonies and subsequently history of the US.

    One can be pro-western, pro-US and still not quibble about about historical fact.


    I am ignoring the inclusion of advanced civilizations because it suggests that any civilization that doesn't live up to some idealized standard of advanced ---

    A perfect example is that of the Cherokee nation in the US. Despite adopting nearly every aspect of US life, they were forced to move onto reservations west. In the US the expectations were that one way or another advanced or not our way and only our way.

    In the colonial aspirations of Europeans that practice was even more intense. There are several books on Africa written by whites that explicate what is on record. Truth can be a tough task master, but it is a healthy way forward.
    , @EliteCommInc.
    excuse the delay

    Short answer: When the slave trade was commenced entire societies were lost, not only to slavery but in the raid to vest Africa of its rubber material --- King Leopold's Ghost by Adam Hochschild.

    One doesn't even need to read historical material to know that when slaves were obtained by whatever means, their cultural identities didn't matter - skin color was enough -

    I know it is strategic, but liberal, conservative, or otherwise, the record is pretty straight up on what the Europeans did on the continent and why. we are not talking about the meaning of events, but the events themselves -- and that record doesn't need exposition. it is what it is.

    As for advanced knowledge, and I want to be careful here because advanced as noted previously can be a tricky in perspective. But I will do you one better than you suggest in two ways:

    1. Your argument is if some African civilization was advanced then the colonists would have raided them of the same --- my responses are

    a. nonsense, one need not be advanced to be taken advantage of in that regard - case closed. robbed of their most vital resources: men and women via slavery, the military and privateeer destruction of entire populations for their iron, copper, diamonds, timber, stone, ivory - wholesale destruction of ecosystems ---

    b. if one takes a tour of US plantations, one will get an earful of the technologies in prefab housing techniques, home ventilation, agriculture, architecture, etc all derived from slaves

    2. you don't understand history very well. There's little in the way of colonial enterprise by the Europeans that reflected some deep level of cultural exchange between blacks, barely considered human and whites. In other words, if I consider myself superior, the likelihood, that I would consider you have anything of value to offer is for naught -- which explains why South African did what they did to the fortresses they found -- they simply decided that they could not have been built by blacks and claimed them developed by whites.

    It is not uncommon to load up such conversations with data set sources, but as I suspect is the case here, it is an excuse to hop skip over what is plainly unhidden information because it is unpleasant.

    3. The answer to the last of what was to be gained in obvious as well as contained in the above responses.
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  110. Wally says:
    @jilles dykstra
    Not enough room here for a list.
    European colonialism destroyed all highly developed African cultures.

    Who is willing to read about some of them:
    Jan Vansina, ‘The Children of Woot, A History of the Kuba Peoples’, 1978, Madison
    Jan Vansina, ‘Kingdoms of the savanna, A history of Central African states until the European occupation’, London 1966

    What Africans were capable of
    ‘The archaeology of Africa, Food, Metals and Towns’, ed. Shaw, Sinclair, Andah and Okpoko, London and New York 1993.
    What Africa lacked is iron ore, and coal, so iron was in fact a precious metal.
    But they did produce iron implements.
    Forgot which book describes the Timbuktu university and library.

    European colonialists were unable to believe that the imposing ruins in Zimbabwe were built by blacks, so they invented that Egyptians came from the north.
    To this day nobody understands the function of these buildings.

    It was the same in the former Dutch East Indies, the people living there were seen as stupid.
    Great commotion whan the Borobudur was unearthed.
    That there had been trade from these Indies with Africa for thousands of years, I wonder if any of our colonialists ever knew.

    Polynesian navigating skills over thousands of miles of open ocean are known now to have existed, but exactly how they did it, it no longer is known.
    Reading the waves, and wave patterns, was an essential skill.
    Had the 16th century European captains known, many a shipwreck could have been prevented.
    Guy Murchie, ‘Het lied van de lucht’, (Song of the sky, an exploration of the ocean of air, Boston), Bilthoven 1956

    So where are these “highly developed”achievements to actually see?
    Please show us “highly developed” sub-Saharan African:

    - medicine / healthcare
    - transportation vehicles & systems
    - architecture
    - legal systems
    - “imposing ruins in Zimbabwe”, LOL
    - mathematics
    - writing
    - historical texts
    - scientific texts
    - astronomy
    - “Timbuktu university and library”, LOL
    But wow, they did make those cute masks.

    On & on it goes. All bankrupt leftist talk it is.
    I can give you citations for books which allege witchcraft & sorcery, but like your references, they are pure fantasy and wishful thinking.

    Your desperate deflection to Dutch East Indies & Polynesians is noted.
    Neither of which did a whole lot more. But hey, someone said they did.

    You’ve really taken the leftist bait, hook, line, & sinker.

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  111. Wally says:
    @Okechukwu

    Show us your “verified reports”. As if anyone could simply load a tanker with oil without paying, without being noticed, without being approved for port departure.
    Show us the “verified reports”
     
    Haha. Another person here that has no inkling of the machinations of international business. For one thing, equity oil producers in Nigeria aren't necessarily monitored. They're known for taking millions of barrels of Nigerian oil without payment. They produce the oil and the loading and transportation facilities are owned by them. They are contractually obligated to return to Nigeria 60% of what they produce. But 60% of what is the question.

    With respect to verified corruption, here are a few tidbits:

    Investigators in Nigeria and in Italy claim that $1.1bn – which was paid to the government by international oil companies in 2006 – never made it into the national coffers.

    Instead, they say, it ended up in the hands of a middleman called Dan Etete and his company Malabu Oil.

    The money recovered is a tiny fraction of the amount allegedly taken but a coup for the government nonetheless.

    Since he came to office in 2015 President Muhammadu Buhari has been on a drive to repatriate money lost to corruption, much of which is spent in the US and the UK.

    Earlier this year, Italian prosecutors took up the case against ENI and Shell for their alleged part in the scandal.

    http://clubofmozambique.com/news/nigeria-recovers-millions-stolen-in-oil-scandal/

    Swiss-based commodity traders are profiting from “opaque joint ventures” with the Nigerian national oil company, according to a report by the Swiss non-governmental Berne Declaration group. The traders have denied the charge.

    “Every year Nigerian state coffers lose billions of dollars as large volumes of oil are exported for well below market price and the subsidy scheme for imports of refined crude oil products is systematically defrauded,” the Berne Declaration said in a press release on Monday detailing its report.

    “Ongoing investigations by the Nigerian authorities show that those Swiss traders dominant in oil exports have been making good business with dubious Nigerian import firms,” the NGO says.

    Although Nigeria is oil rich, it does not have its own refining capacities, and as a result has to import refined products. The import business is heavily subsidised.

    The Berne Declaration claims that $6.8 billion (CHF6.2 billion) of unjustifiable subsidies were paid out in 2009 and 2011 – the equivalent of nearly four times the Nigerian health budget for 2013.

    https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/traders-collude-in-oil-corruption--says-swiss-ngo/37260152

    “Indigenous” farming? Don’t make me laugh.
    They are capable of feeding only a small percentage of Africans.
    Show us verifiable data on your unfounded “dumping”
     
    Certainly.

    Rich nations are spending $250 billion (161.76 billion pound) annually subsidizing their agricultural sectors to the detriment of poor farmers as they artificially lower prices for some crops and block market access for growers from poor countries, a new study said.

    Japan spends 59 times as much supporting its own farmers than on food aid and nutrition support, while countries in the European Union spend 42 times as much and the United States spends 16 times as much, the Brookings Institution study said.

    “There are a lot of ways countries can give artificial support for their own farmers, hurting farmers in Asian or African countries who could supply that (product) for better value,” McArthur told the Thomson Reuters Foundation.

    https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-farming-subsidies/rich-nations-spend-250-billion-on-farm-subsidies-hurting-poor-growers-study-idUKKCN0SA2BF20151016

    Critics of US food aid subsidies say they help cause obesity among Americans and starvation among Africans.

    Now Care, one of the world's biggest charities, has announced that it will boycott the controversial policy of selling tons of heavily subsidised US produced food in African countries. Care wants the US government to send money to buy food locally, rather than unwanted US produced food.

    The farm lobby meanwhile has a stranglehold on Congress, which has balked at making any changes that would interfere with a system that promotes overproduction of commodities.

    Critics of the policy say it also undermines African farmers' ability to produce food, making the most vulnerable countries of the world even more dependent on aid to avert famine.

    Under the system Washington buys tens of millions of dollars of surplus corn and other products from agribusiness. The food, which can only be exported on US flagged ships, is then sold by charities to raise money to pay for emergencies.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/us-food-aid-is-wrecking-africa-claims-charity-5334550.html

    That’s your rebuttal? Seriously?

    You noted a few instances of ALLEGED activities by those who benefit greatly from making those false allegations. There are no international law convictions, no proof of massive activities. All just nickel & dime stuff. But hey, that’s how empty leftist talk rolls.

    You also failed to read that the relatively small amount of oil was recovered, and it was black AFRICANS who were involved in the theft to begin with. LOL

    You have also failed to show that black African farmers (white farmers in Africa have all been murdered) have even the capability to produce the volume needed to feed the ignorant & over breeding black African population. You also fail to mention that by ‘complaining’, the incompetent dumb black African farmers are actually seeking free cash (aka: ‘subsidies’) from the UN & other ‘aid’ organizations’. Quite a scam going on there.

    Better luck next time,

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  112. @lavoisier
    Interesting sources of information.

    But something gets lost in translation when you fall back on the usual and predictable liberal canard that multiple advanced black civilizations were destroyed by whitey.

    I am no fan of colonialism or the subjugation of people. But it is nothing more than foolishness to claim that European colonization destroyed advanced African cultures. Colonization was about making money. If African civilizations were so advanced the colonizers would have worked to milk that civilization for its riches and innovative practices in trade and navigation. It would have not have been in their interests to destroy those cultures.

    Please explain in greater detail how whitey destroyed African civilizations? And what did whitey gain in the process of that destruction?

    See history of the american colonies and subsequently history of the US.

    One can be pro-western, pro-US and still not quibble about about historical fact.

    I am ignoring the inclusion of advanced civilizations because it suggests that any civilization that doesn’t live up to some idealized standard of advanced —

    A perfect example is that of the Cherokee nation in the US. Despite adopting nearly every aspect of US life, they were forced to move onto reservations west. In the US the expectations were that one way or another advanced or not our way and only our way.

    In the colonial aspirations of Europeans that practice was even more intense. There are several books on Africa written by whites that explicate what is on record. Truth can be a tough task master, but it is a healthy way forward.

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    • Replies: @Alden
    It’s not true at all that the Cherokees were forced to move west.

    By that time, there were 2 distinct groups of Cherokees.

    One group was very assimilated to a farming economy, the concept of private property, English language literacy etc.

    The other faction was committed to the Indian tribal lifestyle which involved a lot of cattle and other stock theft and raiding and kidnapping of children and young teens.
    The Cherokee were told by president Jackson to make a choice:

    1. Assimilate to the Settlers farming lifestyle and stay east of the Mississippi

    2. Keep their tribal lifestyle and identification but move west away from the settled farmland.

    Some were already settled farmers and choose to stay and gave up their tribal identification. Their descendants are all over Tennessee, , Kentucky the Carolinas, and other states.

    Others kept their tribal identity and followed their chiefs West.

    There was a brave group that decided to stay and preserve their tribal lifestyle. They holed up in the mountains and the Army eventually gave up and let them alone. But with the army between them and the farmers, they could no longer raid, rob and kidnap the settlers.

    But by 1900 that brave group had also assimilated and intermarried.

    Why do people who know nothing about American history keep posting their mis conceptions about Indians into articles that have nothing to do with American Indians.
    , @Alden
    You commented that White European colonies destroyed pre 1900 black Africa.

    Lavoisier asked you to document your statement.

    You replied by citing about 1/4 of the American Cherokees who moved west to preserve their tribal identity and lifestyle.

    That’s no answer, it just shows how ignorant you are, jumping from continent to continent and century to century.

    That was no answer It was just stupid.
    , @Malla
    I find this whole Afrocentrist claims about Europeans destroying African civilizations dubious.
    In Asia, most of the ruins of earlier civilization were discovered and preserved by European colonialists.
    For example take Angkor Wat of Cambodia for example. It was rediscovered by Frenchman Henri Mouhot. Similarly it were British archaeologists who similarly excavated many such monuments in India such as the Ajanta Ellora Caves.

    Not only that British historians did research about great Indian emperors like Ashoka who was long forgotten by Indians and educated Indian people about their own great history. So I do not see any such destruction of culture in Asia. India alone had monuments than all of Africa, Asian history more of a challenge to Europeans but I did not see any such destruction.

    The British tried their best to preserve Indian culture.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sanskrit_College_and_University
    Sanskrit College and University (erstwhile Sanskrit College) is a specialized state-government administered Liberal Arts University offering an undergraduate degree in Sanskrit language, Pali language, Linguistics and ancient Indian and world history.[1][2] It is one of the affiliated colleges of the University of Calcutta. Founded on 1 January 1824, Sanskrit College, is one of the oldest educational institutions in the subcontinent.[3] It is a traditional college that specializes in the scholarship of Indian tradition, philosophy and religion. It is located on College Street in central Kolkata. Its centrality is heightened by its proximity to Hindu School, Presidency College, Kolkata, the University of Calcutta, and the Indian Coffee House. It was established during the Governor-Generalship of Lord Amherst, based on a recommendation by HT James Prinsep and Thomas Babington Macaulay among others. The great Indian Hindu thinker from Bengal Iswarchandra Vidyasagr came from this college. It was recommended by Macaulay and Prinsep.

    Somnath Temple The British also got back the gates of Somnath Temple which was looted by the Afghans
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somnath_temple
    In 1782-83 AD, Maratha king Mahadaji Shinde, victoriously brought back three silver gates from Lahore after defeating Mahmud Shah Abdati, to Somnath. After refusal from priests of Gujarat and the then ruler Gaekwad to put them back on Somnath temple, these silver gates were placed in the temples of Ujjain. Today they can be seen in two temples of India, Mahakaleshwar Jyotirlinga and Gopal Mandir of Ujjain.[33][34][35] In 1842, Edward Law, 1st Earl of Ellenborough issued his the Proclamation of the Gates, in which he ordered the British army in Afghanistan to return via Ghazni and bring back to India the sandalwood gates from the tomb of Mahmud of Ghazni in Ghazni, Afghanistan. These were believed to have been taken by Mahmud from Somnath. There was a debate in the House of Commons in London in 1843 on the question of the gates of the temple.[36][37] After much crossfire between the British Government and the opposition, the gates were uprooted and brought back in triumph. But on arrival, they were found to be replicas of the original.[34] They were placed in a store-room in the Agra Fort where they still lie to the present day.[38][39]

    Ancient Monuments Preservation Act 1904
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Monuments_Preservation_Act_1904
    The Ancient Monuments Preservation Act, 1904 was passed in 18, March 1904 by British India during the times of Lord Curzon. it is expedient to provide for the preservation of ancient monuments, for the exercise of control over traffic in antiquities and over excavation in certain places, and for the protection and acquisition in certain cases of ancient monuments and of objects of archaeological, historical or artistic interest. Act preserves and restores ancient Indian monuments by Archaeological Survey of India.

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  113. @Fredrik
    It must be mentioned that a large contingent of the whites in Johannesburg are Jewish.

    You have got to be kidding me! I live in Joburg. This comment is simply untrue. Yes Jews are important in business, etc – but they are a sliver of the white population, and miniscule in the total makeup of the city. Really Fredrik, your comment is nonsense.

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  114. Alden says:
    @EliteCommInc.
    See history of the american colonies and subsequently history of the US.

    One can be pro-western, pro-US and still not quibble about about historical fact.


    I am ignoring the inclusion of advanced civilizations because it suggests that any civilization that doesn't live up to some idealized standard of advanced ---

    A perfect example is that of the Cherokee nation in the US. Despite adopting nearly every aspect of US life, they were forced to move onto reservations west. In the US the expectations were that one way or another advanced or not our way and only our way.

    In the colonial aspirations of Europeans that practice was even more intense. There are several books on Africa written by whites that explicate what is on record. Truth can be a tough task master, but it is a healthy way forward.

    It’s not true at all that the Cherokees were forced to move west.

    By that time, there were 2 distinct groups of Cherokees.

    One group was very assimilated to a farming economy, the concept of private property, English language literacy etc.

    The other faction was committed to the Indian tribal lifestyle which involved a lot of cattle and other stock theft and raiding and kidnapping of children and young teens.
    The Cherokee were told by president Jackson to make a choice:

    1. Assimilate to the Settlers farming lifestyle and stay east of the Mississippi

    2. Keep their tribal lifestyle and identification but move west away from the settled farmland.

    Some were already settled farmers and choose to stay and gave up their tribal identification. Their descendants are all over Tennessee, , Kentucky the Carolinas, and other states.

    Others kept their tribal identity and followed their chiefs West.

    There was a brave group that decided to stay and preserve their tribal lifestyle. They holed up in the mountains and the Army eventually gave up and let them alone. But with the army between them and the farmers, they could no longer raid, rob and kidnap the settlers.

    But by 1900 that brave group had also assimilated and intermarried.

    Why do people who know nothing about American history keep posting their mis conceptions about Indians into articles that have nothing to do with American Indians.

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    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
    Ah, sadly the community you reference is exactly the group I am referring to -- they too were uprootted, despite adopting "the white man's way".


    It's not for nothing that the Cherokee feel betrayed. I think you might find Mr. Kens Burns, The West instructive.

    I am not a liberal, but conservatives have got to stop pretending that what occurred is all liberal nonsense. The record on native Americans in the US is pretty clear.

    Absolutely civilizations passed without any help from Europe. That is not in the issue. And one can certainly point to archaeologists from Europe doing serious work to catalog African cultures. But that doesn't reference what they did to the co-existing societies.

    Allow me to be clear, my issue with Europe is not archaeology, but their hypocrisy and the measures they used to justify that hypocrisy. Hence the reference to advanced or contemporary societies.

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  115. Alden says:
    @jilles dykstra
    Not enough room here for a list.
    European colonialism destroyed all highly developed African cultures.

    Who is willing to read about some of them:
    Jan Vansina, ‘The Children of Woot, A History of the Kuba Peoples’, 1978, Madison
    Jan Vansina, ‘Kingdoms of the savanna, A history of Central African states until the European occupation’, London 1966

    What Africans were capable of
    ‘The archaeology of Africa, Food, Metals and Towns’, ed. Shaw, Sinclair, Andah and Okpoko, London and New York 1993.
    What Africa lacked is iron ore, and coal, so iron was in fact a precious metal.
    But they did produce iron implements.
    Forgot which book describes the Timbuktu university and library.

    European colonialists were unable to believe that the imposing ruins in Zimbabwe were built by blacks, so they invented that Egyptians came from the north.
    To this day nobody understands the function of these buildings.

    It was the same in the former Dutch East Indies, the people living there were seen as stupid.
    Great commotion whan the Borobudur was unearthed.
    That there had been trade from these Indies with Africa for thousands of years, I wonder if any of our colonialists ever knew.

    Polynesian navigating skills over thousands of miles of open ocean are known now to have existed, but exactly how they did it, it no longer is known.
    Reading the waves, and wave patterns, was an essential skill.
    Had the 16th century European captains known, many a shipwreck could have been prevented.
    Guy Murchie, ‘Het lied van de lucht’, (Song of the sky, an exploration of the ocean of air, Boston), Bilthoven 1956

    The ruins in Zimbabwe are the remains of an Arab slave trading fort, African slaves sent to Arab lands further north.

    Timbuktu library was a collection of Koran’s, nothing else. The trade routes changed, the desert expanded and Timbuktu became a ruin 600 years ago.
    there is still slavery in Timbuktu . It may have been abolished in 1960 due to a massive bribe from the UN but it never ended.

    All your anti western propaganda may have been new and exciting when you met your Marxist professors in 1950 but is really outdated today.

    Americans have other things to worry about than medieval slave trading Arab forts in Zimbabwe.

    Where do you live, some village where everyone but you dropped out of school at age 10? Is that where your pseudo intellectual snobbery comes from?

    Do you think you are the only person in the world who ever read a history book?

    You are not.

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  116. Alden says:
    @jilles dykstra
    Not enough room here for a list.
    European colonialism destroyed all highly developed African cultures.

    Who is willing to read about some of them:
    Jan Vansina, ‘The Children of Woot, A History of the Kuba Peoples’, 1978, Madison
    Jan Vansina, ‘Kingdoms of the savanna, A history of Central African states until the European occupation’, London 1966

    What Africans were capable of
    ‘The archaeology of Africa, Food, Metals and Towns’, ed. Shaw, Sinclair, Andah and Okpoko, London and New York 1993.
    What Africa lacked is iron ore, and coal, so iron was in fact a precious metal.
    But they did produce iron implements.
    Forgot which book describes the Timbuktu university and library.

    European colonialists were unable to believe that the imposing ruins in Zimbabwe were built by blacks, so they invented that Egyptians came from the north.
    To this day nobody understands the function of these buildings.

    It was the same in the former Dutch East Indies, the people living there were seen as stupid.
    Great commotion whan the Borobudur was unearthed.
    That there had been trade from these Indies with Africa for thousands of years, I wonder if any of our colonialists ever knew.

    Polynesian navigating skills over thousands of miles of open ocean are known now to have existed, but exactly how they did it, it no longer is known.
    Reading the waves, and wave patterns, was an essential skill.
    Had the 16th century European captains known, many a shipwreck could have been prevented.
    Guy Murchie, ‘Het lied van de lucht’, (Song of the sky, an exploration of the ocean of air, Boston), Bilthoven 1956

    We’re you friends with Obana’s Mother when she was pursuing her PHD thesis on Indonesian blacksmiths?
    I bet you are a fan of Rousseau as well.
    Old liberals like you are a joke.

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  117. Alden says:
    @EliteCommInc.
    See history of the american colonies and subsequently history of the US.

    One can be pro-western, pro-US and still not quibble about about historical fact.


    I am ignoring the inclusion of advanced civilizations because it suggests that any civilization that doesn't live up to some idealized standard of advanced ---

    A perfect example is that of the Cherokee nation in the US. Despite adopting nearly every aspect of US life, they were forced to move onto reservations west. In the US the expectations were that one way or another advanced or not our way and only our way.

    In the colonial aspirations of Europeans that practice was even more intense. There are several books on Africa written by whites that explicate what is on record. Truth can be a tough task master, but it is a healthy way forward.

    You commented that White European colonies destroyed pre 1900 black Africa.

    Lavoisier asked you to document your statement.

    You replied by citing about 1/4 of the American Cherokees who moved west to preserve their tribal identity and lifestyle.

    That’s no answer, it just shows how ignorant you are, jumping from continent to continent and century to century.

    That was no answer It was just stupid.

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    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
    Excuse the delay

    Laughing and laughing really hard.


    I am not going to place myself in opposition that whites and yellows consider themselves the smartest peoples on the planet and have engaged in any number of destructive campaigns nationally and internationally to make their point.


    Hence the reason for why Africa was treated vastly differently (i am not sure hatred is the correct term.)

    But clearly, if one thinks that one population is barely human and destined to be either controlled or wiped out, there's no need to consider them as competition worthy of respect.

    , @EliteCommInc.
    Hmmmmm . . . excuse the delay.


    I don't think you have the context correct. I think I referenced co-existing societies. If that includes 19th and 18th century relations, then I stand by that.

    Uhhh, your comment about my response to the Cherokee discussion is entirely incorrect. not only did I state what occurred concerning the Cherokee, I provided a reference. Ignoring of course that by now, that history is well known. Your comprehension of Pres Jackson, is wholly distorted.

    1. Whether they assimilated or not, by treaty and agreement the Cherokee had ever right to live as they were --

    2. Pres Andrew Jackson's call was in violation of the law -- the constitution of the US. It was purely a matter of superiority of whites - period. I am making no judgement about his view, but that was the basis for his press.

    I am ignorant of many things. i have a lot yet to learn. one of the issues about which I have been and remain ignorant is the on the intelligence, industriousness and complexity of African civilizations, it goes well beyond Egypt. What I hope is not an accurate suggestion is that I am engaged in strategic rhetoric intended to avoid honest discussion. I will take your final comment as admonition to be careful in avoiding even the appearance of deception.

    In this discussion, I don't think there is any evidence of such method.
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  118. Malla says:
    @Okechukwu

    Unlike the Europeans the Chinese won’t be afraid to use their own weapons on anyone threatening.
     
    The Rhodesians were as brutal as can be. They bombed and shelled indiscriminately. Massacred civilians, tortured people, burned down villages and herded people into concentration camps. They even resorted to chemical warfare. But in the end they still got their asses kicked.

    The Portuguese were equally ruthless and brutal, as were the Boers. Let's just say that all European colonizers in Africa were genocidal, murdering, thieving savages.

    China doesn't want to colonize Africa. That's just a white supremacist fantasy. But if they tried they'd fail miserably. Consider the problems the United States and NATO have had in defeating 2,000 Taliban goat herders. That should clue you in as to how difficult it is to subdue and repress people in the modern era.

    But in the end they still got their asses kicked.

    No they did not. Rhodesia was brought down by the U.S.A and Britain.

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    • Replies: @Okechukwu

    No they did not. Rhodesia was brought down by the U.S.A and Britain.
     
    Yeah, right. Rhodesia was defeated on the battlefield. USA and Britain rushed in to give them something of a more dignified exist. Otherwise they all would have been rounded up and shot as war criminals.
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  119. Red Robbo says:
    @Fredrik
    ANC never intended to change this.

    This was always only about enriching oneself.

    The flipside of that coin is that talk of racial animosity or genocide is exaggerated. Sure, bad things happen but even the ANC themselves admit this is due to the nature of the African. There's no plan...

    >This was always only about enriching oneself.
    This is the situation worldwide.

    I read a Time piece last month about the growing number of Butler schools in China! Apparently some of China’s 1,590,000 millionaires wish to live the life of Riley Downtown Abbey style! ‘Students pay 50,000 rmb ($7,500) for a six-week course on food presentation, how to iron shirts the proper way, and maintaining serene decorum at all times….Students learn how to choose fine wine but also good Chinese liquor, teach tai chi, perform a tea ceremony and caddy on the golf course. For many, it’s another world.’ Indeed. ‘…15-hour days and endless drilling. How to clean a toilet, iron a tablecloth, use tape-measures and plastic blocks to get table placings perfectly aligned. It’s a regiment of burns, blisters and bottomless cups of coffee’. This in turn reminded me that the Ju/’hoansi people work only 15 hours a week! ‘The Ju/’hoansi people of the Kalahari have always been fiercely egalitarian. They hate inequality or showing off, and shun formal leadership institutions. It’s what made them part of the most successful, sustainable civilisation in human history’ (The Guardian, 29 October).

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  120. I must have hit sensible spots with my reactions.
    Alas I do not see any real argument, just assertions.
    I specified sources, anyone can read them.

    Let me add one more
    Solly Zuckermann, ‘From Apes to Warlords, an autobiography, 1904- 46’, London 1988
    In WWII Zuckermann was the RAF’s bombing expert, he was a biologist by profession.
    His mother had fled, they were jewish, from a Baltic state to S Africa, where he grew up and studied.
    He describes the remnants of cultures there, from being an amateur archeologist.
    The book is also interesting on military stupidity, inefficiënt bombing.

    The question on what whitey gained is best answered by
    Adam Hochschild, ‘De geest van koning Leopold, en de plundering van de Congo’, ( King Leopold’s Ghost. A Story of Greed, Terror and Heroism in Colonial Africa, 1998), 1998, 2003, Amsterdam

    The irony is that the present imposing buildings in Belgium, built on the blood of Congo people, have become a nuisance.
    Ten million deaths is an estimate.
    They were not built with an eye on security.
    Many times accused who have to appear before a court succeed in escaping in the court building.

    On IQ differences.
    IQ just measures IQ, not intelligence.
    The tests have a cultural component.

    How especially the British behaved in Africa, the French, and later the Belgians, were just the same
    Ian Hernon, ‘Britain’s Forgotten Wars, Colonial Campaigns of the 19th Century’, 2003, 2007, Chalford – Stroud
    The west won, of course, superior weapons.
    But anyone reading the book without prejudice must be impressed with the organised resistance in Africa, far better organised than for example China.
    A Zulu army armed with just javelins and clubs massacred a British army to the last man, an army with repeater rifles and shrapnel cannon.
    Of course it was a blood bath among the Zulu’s, but they fought for their society.

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  121. Okechukwu says:
    @Malla

    But in the end they still got their asses kicked.
     
    No they did not. Rhodesia was brought down by the U.S.A and Britain.

    No they did not. Rhodesia was brought down by the U.S.A and Britain.

    Yeah, right. Rhodesia was defeated on the battlefield. USA and Britain rushed in to give them something of a more dignified exist. Otherwise they all would have been rounded up and shot as war criminals.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Malla
    There was no chance in hell that ZANU and ZAPU had any chance of defeating the Rhodesian Army. If there were no sanctions placed on Rhodesia, the Rhodesian government would have been still around and Mugabe would have died in some jungle hideout.
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  122. Malla says:
    @EliteCommInc.
    See history of the american colonies and subsequently history of the US.

    One can be pro-western, pro-US and still not quibble about about historical fact.


    I am ignoring the inclusion of advanced civilizations because it suggests that any civilization that doesn't live up to some idealized standard of advanced ---

    A perfect example is that of the Cherokee nation in the US. Despite adopting nearly every aspect of US life, they were forced to move onto reservations west. In the US the expectations were that one way or another advanced or not our way and only our way.

    In the colonial aspirations of Europeans that practice was even more intense. There are several books on Africa written by whites that explicate what is on record. Truth can be a tough task master, but it is a healthy way forward.

    I find this whole Afrocentrist claims about Europeans destroying African civilizations dubious.
    In Asia, most of the ruins of earlier civilization were discovered and preserved by European colonialists.
    For example take Angkor Wat of Cambodia for example. It was rediscovered by Frenchman Henri Mouhot. Similarly it were British archaeologists who similarly excavated many such monuments in India such as the Ajanta Ellora Caves.

    Not only that British historians did research about great Indian emperors like Ashoka who was long forgotten by Indians and educated Indian people about their own great history. So I do not see any such destruction of culture in Asia. India alone had monuments than all of Africa, Asian history more of a challenge to Europeans but I did not see any such destruction.

    The British tried their best to preserve Indian culture.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sanskrit_College_and_University

    Sanskrit College and University (erstwhile Sanskrit College) is a specialized state-government administered Liberal Arts University offering an undergraduate degree in Sanskrit language, Pali language, Linguistics and ancient Indian and world history.[1][2] It is one of the affiliated colleges of the University of Calcutta. Founded on 1 January 1824, Sanskrit College, is one of the oldest educational institutions in the subcontinent.[3] It is a traditional college that specializes in the scholarship of Indian tradition, philosophy and religion. It is located on College Street in central Kolkata. Its centrality is heightened by its proximity to Hindu School, Presidency College, Kolkata, the University of Calcutta, and the Indian Coffee House. It was established during the Governor-Generalship of Lord Amherst, based on a recommendation by HT James Prinsep and Thomas Babington Macaulay among others. The great Indian Hindu thinker from Bengal Iswarchandra Vidyasagr came from this college. It was recommended by Macaulay and Prinsep.

    Somnath Temple The British also got back the gates of Somnath Temple which was looted by the Afghans

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somnath_temple

    In 1782-83 AD, Maratha king Mahadaji Shinde, victoriously brought back three silver gates from Lahore after defeating Mahmud Shah Abdati, to Somnath. After refusal from priests of Gujarat and the then ruler Gaekwad to put them back on Somnath temple, these silver gates were placed in the temples of Ujjain. Today they can be seen in two temples of India, Mahakaleshwar Jyotirlinga and Gopal Mandir of Ujjain.[33][34][35] In 1842, Edward Law, 1st Earl of Ellenborough issued his the Proclamation of the Gates, in which he ordered the British army in Afghanistan to return via Ghazni and bring back to India the sandalwood gates from the tomb of Mahmud of Ghazni in Ghazni, Afghanistan. These were believed to have been taken by Mahmud from Somnath. There was a debate in the House of Commons in London in 1843 on the question of the gates of the temple.[36][37] After much crossfire between the British Government and the opposition, the gates were uprooted and brought back in triumph. But on arrival, they were found to be replicas of the original.[34] They were placed in a store-room in the Agra Fort where they still lie to the present day.[38][39]

    Ancient Monuments Preservation Act 1904

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Monuments_Preservation_Act_1904

    The Ancient Monuments Preservation Act, 1904 was passed in 18, March 1904 by British India during the times of Lord Curzon. it is expedient to provide for the preservation of ancient monuments, for the exercise of control over traffic in antiquities and over excavation in certain places, and for the protection and acquisition in certain cases of ancient monuments and of objects of archaeological, historical or artistic interest. Act preserves and restores ancient Indian monuments by Archaeological Survey of India.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Malla
    And Englishman James Prinsep did more for Indian history than any historian ever.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Prinsep
    In 1829, Captain James D. Herbert started a serial called Gleanings in Science. Captain Herbert, however, was posted as Astronomer to the King of Oudh in 1830, leaving the journal to the editorship of James Prinsep, who was himself the primary contributor to it. In 1832 he succeeded H. H. Wilson as secretary of the Asiatic Society of Bengal and suggested that the Society should take over Gleanings in Science and produce the Journal of the Asiatic Society. Prinsep became the founding editor of this journal and contributed articles on chemistry, mineralogy, numismatics and on the study of Indian antiquities. He was also very interested in meteorology and the tabulation of observations and the analysis of date from across the country. He worked on the calibration of instruments to measure humidity and atmospheric pressure.[10] He continued to edit the journal until his illness in 1838 which led to his leaving India and subsequently his death. Many of the plates in the journal were illustrated by him.[11] Numismatist[edit] Founder of the Indo-Greek Kingdom Demetrius I of Bactria (205–171 BCE), wearing an elephant scalp symbolizing his conquest of India Coins were Prinsep's first interest. He interpreted doing from Bactria and Kushan as well as Indian series coins, including "punch-marked" ones from the Gupta series. Prinsep suggested that there were three stages; the punch-marked, the die-struck, and the cast coins.[12][13] Prinsep initially held the view that ancient India had no native coinage,[14] a view that he later amended, suggesting that old Indian coinage was restricted to those "punch-marked" on silver and gold.[15] Brahmi script philologist[edit] Prinsep used bilingual Indo-Greek coins to decipher Kharoshthi. Obverse and reverse legends in Greek "Basileos Sotēros Menandroy" and Kharosthi "Maharaja Tratasa Menandrasa": "Of The Saviour King Menander". As a result of Prinsep's work as an editor of the Asiatic Society's journal, coins and copies of inscriptions were transmitted to him from all over India, to be deciphered, translated, and published.[16] In a series of results that he published between 1836–38 he was able to decipher the inscriptions on rock edicts found around India. The edicts in Brahmi script mentioned a King Devanampriya Piyadasi which Prinsep initially assumed was a Sri Lankan king.[17] He was then able to associate this title with Asoka on the basis of Pali script from Sri Lanka communicated to him by George Turnour.[18][19] These scripts were found on the pillars at Delhi and Allahabad and on rock inscriptions from both sides of India, and also the Kharosthi script in the coins and inscriptions of the north-west. The idea of Corpus Inscriptionum Indicarum, a collection of Indian epigraphy, was first suggested by Prinsep and the work was formally begun by Sir Alexander Cunningham in 1877.[20] His studies on inscriptions helped in the establishment of date of Indian dynasties based on references to Antiochus and other Greeks.[1] Prinsep's research and writing were not confined to India. Prinsep also delved into the early history of Afghanistan, producing several works that touched on archaeological finds in that country. Many of the collections were sent by Alexander Burnes.[21]
    , @jilles dykstra
    Dubious

    Walter Rodney, 'How Europe Underdeveloped Africa', London, 1983

    Juhani Koponen, 'People and Production in late precolonial Tanzania, History and Structures', Helsinki 1988

    Richard F. Burton, 'First Footsteps in East Africa', 1856, 2000, Köln

    Steven Feierman, 'The Shambaa Kingdom, A History', 1974 Madison

    Jan Vansina, ‘The Children of Woot, A History of the Kuba Peoples’, 1978, Madison

    A very dubious source, wiki.
    That the British colonists were curious people is true.
    That they preserved much, I doubt very much.
    I think it was Burton who described the thoughtful agricultural practices he saw as first European travelling the area.

    Ignorance the west is staggering.

    That highly developed civilisations disappeared all over the world without Europeans destroying them simply is true.
    Why they disappeared we often do not know.

    Harappa and Mohenjo Daro in the now border area between India and Afghanistan were very impressive cities.
    It now is thought that the Indian continent moved in the east west direction, cutting off all rivers, the cities lived on water transport, what disappeared, together with irrigation.
    The Gilgamesh and Noah stories may have their origin in the movement.

    The Maya culture disappeared through drought.
    They sacrificed their children, our oil and gas sacrifice now, our most precious resources, often reminds me of what the Maya's did.
    The Maya sacrifice had no result, I wonder if our sacrifice will have any.

    The Yemen civilisation also disappeared through drought, and destruction in war, of an impressive irrigation system, the remnants of the huge dam still are there.

    What the Spanish destroyed in S America is terrible.
    Pizarro had never seen a clean city in his life before he terrorised and destroyed S America, for gold, something the people there considered worthless.
    Ronald Wright, 'Stolen Continents, Conquest and Resistance in the Americas', 1992, London

    European cities at the time were garbage dumps, thanks to the christian philosophy that the body was unclean, and unimportant.
    Thus the epidemics.
    The Romans already knew better.
    , @EliteCommInc.
    I would note that what the Europeans did in Africa is not what they did is Asia, the Middle East, or even Northern Africa.

    One has to remember blacks were seen as animals, just barely human. And absolutely on the lower ring of the mythical evolutionary time table, destined to be either destroyed or slaves by right of might and destined by God as decsendents of came to be subservient.


    In south Africa, when it thought that the home of Sheba was discovered, they looked that fortress and determined that it must have been by whites and the queen herself was white. They literally rewrote the historical anthropological record to reflect that belief. They could not conceive of blacks being intelligent enough to built such a massive elaborate walled structure - fortress. I have been repeatedly disappointed at the measures taken by Europeans to enforce their beliefs about Africa, And it was repeated time and time and time and time again.

    We love Asia and Asia loves that we love them for their intelligence -- they and europenas lay claim to the first written languages. But we now know that the earliest complex language is from Africa, I think it dates back more than 6,000 years. The problem is not that it is just known today. It was known before the first ww, I think.


    Places like Timbuktu were not unknown to early white colonists, just covered up, facts of the continent.

    I want to avoid the long twisted convoluted discussion about slavery. But when the discussion about destruction is discussed, it includes the utter destruction of multiple civilizations because the categories were not based on civilizations, language but something as shallow as skin color. It explains why virtually no black people can trace their heritage back to the society from which they have come on the continent. The upside, is that blacks in the US of all people probably have better grasp of what it means to be a citizen, because the US is all they known from generation to generation.
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  123. Malla says:
    @Malla
    I find this whole Afrocentrist claims about Europeans destroying African civilizations dubious.
    In Asia, most of the ruins of earlier civilization were discovered and preserved by European colonialists.
    For example take Angkor Wat of Cambodia for example. It was rediscovered by Frenchman Henri Mouhot. Similarly it were British archaeologists who similarly excavated many such monuments in India such as the Ajanta Ellora Caves.

    Not only that British historians did research about great Indian emperors like Ashoka who was long forgotten by Indians and educated Indian people about their own great history. So I do not see any such destruction of culture in Asia. India alone had monuments than all of Africa, Asian history more of a challenge to Europeans but I did not see any such destruction.

    The British tried their best to preserve Indian culture.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sanskrit_College_and_University
    Sanskrit College and University (erstwhile Sanskrit College) is a specialized state-government administered Liberal Arts University offering an undergraduate degree in Sanskrit language, Pali language, Linguistics and ancient Indian and world history.[1][2] It is one of the affiliated colleges of the University of Calcutta. Founded on 1 January 1824, Sanskrit College, is one of the oldest educational institutions in the subcontinent.[3] It is a traditional college that specializes in the scholarship of Indian tradition, philosophy and religion. It is located on College Street in central Kolkata. Its centrality is heightened by its proximity to Hindu School, Presidency College, Kolkata, the University of Calcutta, and the Indian Coffee House. It was established during the Governor-Generalship of Lord Amherst, based on a recommendation by HT James Prinsep and Thomas Babington Macaulay among others. The great Indian Hindu thinker from Bengal Iswarchandra Vidyasagr came from this college. It was recommended by Macaulay and Prinsep.

    Somnath Temple The British also got back the gates of Somnath Temple which was looted by the Afghans
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somnath_temple
    In 1782-83 AD, Maratha king Mahadaji Shinde, victoriously brought back three silver gates from Lahore after defeating Mahmud Shah Abdati, to Somnath. After refusal from priests of Gujarat and the then ruler Gaekwad to put them back on Somnath temple, these silver gates were placed in the temples of Ujjain. Today they can be seen in two temples of India, Mahakaleshwar Jyotirlinga and Gopal Mandir of Ujjain.[33][34][35] In 1842, Edward Law, 1st Earl of Ellenborough issued his the Proclamation of the Gates, in which he ordered the British army in Afghanistan to return via Ghazni and bring back to India the sandalwood gates from the tomb of Mahmud of Ghazni in Ghazni, Afghanistan. These were believed to have been taken by Mahmud from Somnath. There was a debate in the House of Commons in London in 1843 on the question of the gates of the temple.[36][37] After much crossfire between the British Government and the opposition, the gates were uprooted and brought back in triumph. But on arrival, they were found to be replicas of the original.[34] They were placed in a store-room in the Agra Fort where they still lie to the present day.[38][39]

    Ancient Monuments Preservation Act 1904
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Monuments_Preservation_Act_1904
    The Ancient Monuments Preservation Act, 1904 was passed in 18, March 1904 by British India during the times of Lord Curzon. it is expedient to provide for the preservation of ancient monuments, for the exercise of control over traffic in antiquities and over excavation in certain places, and for the protection and acquisition in certain cases of ancient monuments and of objects of archaeological, historical or artistic interest. Act preserves and restores ancient Indian monuments by Archaeological Survey of India.

    And Englishman James Prinsep did more for Indian history than any historian ever.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Prinsep

    In 1829, Captain James D. Herbert started a serial called Gleanings in Science. Captain Herbert, however, was posted as Astronomer to the King of Oudh in 1830, leaving the journal to the editorship of James Prinsep, who was himself the primary contributor to it. In 1832 he succeeded H. H. Wilson as secretary of the Asiatic Society of Bengal and suggested that the Society should take over Gleanings in Science and produce the Journal of the Asiatic Society. Prinsep became the founding editor of this journal and contributed articles on chemistry, mineralogy, numismatics and on the study of Indian antiquities. He was also very interested in meteorology and the tabulation of observations and the analysis of date from across the country. He worked on the calibration of instruments to measure humidity and atmospheric pressure.[10] He continued to edit the journal until his illness in 1838 which led to his leaving India and subsequently his death. Many of the plates in the journal were illustrated by him.[11] Numismatist[edit] Founder of the Indo-Greek Kingdom Demetrius I of Bactria (205–171 BCE), wearing an elephant scalp symbolizing his conquest of India Coins were Prinsep’s first interest. He interpreted doing from Bactria and Kushan as well as Indian series coins, including “punch-marked” ones from the Gupta series. Prinsep suggested that there were three stages; the punch-marked, the die-struck, and the cast coins.[12][13] Prinsep initially held the view that ancient India had no native coinage,[14] a view that he later amended, suggesting that old Indian coinage was restricted to those “punch-marked” on silver and gold.[15] Brahmi script philologist[edit] Prinsep used bilingual Indo-Greek coins to decipher Kharoshthi. Obverse and reverse legends in Greek “Basileos Sotēros Menandroy” and Kharosthi “Maharaja Tratasa Menandrasa”: “Of The Saviour King Menander”. As a result of Prinsep’s work as an editor of the Asiatic Society’s journal, coins and copies of inscriptions were transmitted to him from all over India, to be deciphered, translated, and published.[16] In a series of results that he published between 1836–38 he was able to decipher the inscriptions on rock edicts found around India. The edicts in Brahmi script mentioned a King Devanampriya Piyadasi which Prinsep initially assumed was a Sri Lankan king.[17] He was then able to associate this title with Asoka on the basis of Pali script from Sri Lanka communicated to him by George Turnour.[18][19] These scripts were found on the pillars at Delhi and Allahabad and on rock inscriptions from both sides of India, and also the Kharosthi script in the coins and inscriptions of the north-west. The idea of Corpus Inscriptionum Indicarum, a collection of Indian epigraphy, was first suggested by Prinsep and the work was formally begun by Sir Alexander Cunningham in 1877.[20] His studies on inscriptions helped in the establishment of date of Indian dynasties based on references to Antiochus and other Greeks.[1] Prinsep’s research and writing were not confined to India. Prinsep also delved into the early history of Afghanistan, producing several works that touched on archaeological finds in that country. Many of the collections were sent by Alexander Burnes.[21]

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  124. jay says:

    What Africa needs is a strong monarchy as well as feudal structure along with liberal use of the death penalty for acts of murder and various other cruelties. Both male/female are to be subject to such rule of law suppressing acts of murder and cruelty.

    Over generations the continent will be more tame:

    http://evoandproud.blogspot.com.au/2013/06/making-europeans-kinder-gentler.html

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    • Replies: @Truth
    Oh, so they need US government?
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  125. Truth says:
    @jay
    What Africa needs is a strong monarchy as well as feudal structure along with liberal use of the death penalty for acts of murder and various other cruelties. Both male/female are to be subject to such rule of law suppressing acts of murder and cruelty.

    Over generations the continent will be more tame:
    http://evoandproud.blogspot.com.au/2013/06/making-europeans-kinder-gentler.html

    Oh, so they need US government?

    Read More
    • Replies: @jay
    The US government executes hardly any criminals worthy of death.
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  126. @Malla
    I find this whole Afrocentrist claims about Europeans destroying African civilizations dubious.
    In Asia, most of the ruins of earlier civilization were discovered and preserved by European colonialists.
    For example take Angkor Wat of Cambodia for example. It was rediscovered by Frenchman Henri Mouhot. Similarly it were British archaeologists who similarly excavated many such monuments in India such as the Ajanta Ellora Caves.

    Not only that British historians did research about great Indian emperors like Ashoka who was long forgotten by Indians and educated Indian people about their own great history. So I do not see any such destruction of culture in Asia. India alone had monuments than all of Africa, Asian history more of a challenge to Europeans but I did not see any such destruction.

    The British tried their best to preserve Indian culture.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sanskrit_College_and_University
    Sanskrit College and University (erstwhile Sanskrit College) is a specialized state-government administered Liberal Arts University offering an undergraduate degree in Sanskrit language, Pali language, Linguistics and ancient Indian and world history.[1][2] It is one of the affiliated colleges of the University of Calcutta. Founded on 1 January 1824, Sanskrit College, is one of the oldest educational institutions in the subcontinent.[3] It is a traditional college that specializes in the scholarship of Indian tradition, philosophy and religion. It is located on College Street in central Kolkata. Its centrality is heightened by its proximity to Hindu School, Presidency College, Kolkata, the University of Calcutta, and the Indian Coffee House. It was established during the Governor-Generalship of Lord Amherst, based on a recommendation by HT James Prinsep and Thomas Babington Macaulay among others. The great Indian Hindu thinker from Bengal Iswarchandra Vidyasagr came from this college. It was recommended by Macaulay and Prinsep.

    Somnath Temple The British also got back the gates of Somnath Temple which was looted by the Afghans
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somnath_temple
    In 1782-83 AD, Maratha king Mahadaji Shinde, victoriously brought back three silver gates from Lahore after defeating Mahmud Shah Abdati, to Somnath. After refusal from priests of Gujarat and the then ruler Gaekwad to put them back on Somnath temple, these silver gates were placed in the temples of Ujjain. Today they can be seen in two temples of India, Mahakaleshwar Jyotirlinga and Gopal Mandir of Ujjain.[33][34][35] In 1842, Edward Law, 1st Earl of Ellenborough issued his the Proclamation of the Gates, in which he ordered the British army in Afghanistan to return via Ghazni and bring back to India the sandalwood gates from the tomb of Mahmud of Ghazni in Ghazni, Afghanistan. These were believed to have been taken by Mahmud from Somnath. There was a debate in the House of Commons in London in 1843 on the question of the gates of the temple.[36][37] After much crossfire between the British Government and the opposition, the gates were uprooted and brought back in triumph. But on arrival, they were found to be replicas of the original.[34] They were placed in a store-room in the Agra Fort where they still lie to the present day.[38][39]

    Ancient Monuments Preservation Act 1904
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Monuments_Preservation_Act_1904
    The Ancient Monuments Preservation Act, 1904 was passed in 18, March 1904 by British India during the times of Lord Curzon. it is expedient to provide for the preservation of ancient monuments, for the exercise of control over traffic in antiquities and over excavation in certain places, and for the protection and acquisition in certain cases of ancient monuments and of objects of archaeological, historical or artistic interest. Act preserves and restores ancient Indian monuments by Archaeological Survey of India.

    Dubious

    Walter Rodney, ‘How Europe Underdeveloped Africa’, London, 1983

    Juhani Koponen, ‘People and Production in late precolonial Tanzania, History and Structures’, Helsinki 1988

    Richard F. Burton, ‘First Footsteps in East Africa’, 1856, 2000, Köln

    Steven Feierman, ‘The Shambaa Kingdom, A History’, 1974 Madison

    Jan Vansina, ‘The Children of Woot, A History of the Kuba Peoples’, 1978, Madison

    A very dubious source, wiki.
    That the British colonists were curious people is true.
    That they preserved much, I doubt very much.
    I think it was Burton who described the thoughtful agricultural practices he saw as first European travelling the area.

    Ignorance the west is staggering.

    That highly developed civilisations disappeared all over the world without Europeans destroying them simply is true.
    Why they disappeared we often do not know.

    Harappa and Mohenjo Daro in the now border area between India and Afghanistan were very impressive cities.
    It now is thought that the Indian continent moved in the east west direction, cutting off all rivers, the cities lived on water transport, what disappeared, together with irrigation.
    The Gilgamesh and Noah stories may have their origin in the movement.

    The Maya culture disappeared through drought.
    They sacrificed their children, our oil and gas sacrifice now, our most precious resources, often reminds me of what the Maya’s did.
    The Maya sacrifice had no result, I wonder if our sacrifice will have any.

    The Yemen civilisation also disappeared through drought, and destruction in war, of an impressive irrigation system, the remnants of the huge dam still are there.

    What the Spanish destroyed in S America is terrible.
    Pizarro had never seen a clean city in his life before he terrorised and destroyed S America, for gold, something the people there considered worthless.
    Ronald Wright, ‘Stolen Continents, Conquest and Resistance in the Americas’, 1992, London

    European cities at the time were garbage dumps, thanks to the christian philosophy that the body was unclean, and unimportant.
    Thus the epidemics.
    The Romans already knew better.

    Read More
    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    An afterthought.
    We at present may well be destroying western culture through immigration, in one or two thousand years, will anyone understand ?
    , @Malla

    Walter Rodney, ‘How Europe Underdeveloped Africa’, London, 1983

    Juhani Koponen, ‘People and Production in late precolonial Tanzania, History and Structures’, Helsinki 1988

    Richard F. Burton, ‘First Footsteps in East Africa’, 1856, 2000, Köln
     
    Libtard post colonial SJWs have made a fortune trying to convince us of this bullshit.

    The Maya culture disappeared through drought.
     
    I agree on this one. The Spanish did decimate many Meso American civilisations but I guess it had a lot more to do with religion than race.

    That they preserved much, I doubt very much.
     
    They did, more than we Indians did or were interested in doing at the earlier days of the East India company.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Monuments_Preservation_Act_1904

    The Ancient Monuments Preservation Act, 1904 was passed in 18, March 1904 by British India during the times of Lord Curzon. it is expedient to provide for the preservation of ancient monuments, for the exercise of control over traffic in antiquities and over excavation in certain places, and for the protection and acquisition in certain cases of ancient monuments and of objects of archaeological, historical or artistic interest. Act preserves and restores ancient Indian monuments by Archaeological Survey of India.

    Again if you think wiki is dubious check this out
    http://asichennai.gov.in/monuments_acts_rules.html
    Thsi the website of the Archeological Survey of India (Chennai cahpter), a department of the Government of Independent India.
    You can download the Ancient Monuments Preservation Act of 1904 by the British Government of India.

    From
    http://asi.nic.in/pdf_data/5.pdf
    The act by British India for the preservation of Indian monuments. The website again is an ASI (Archaeological Survey of India, Government of Independent India) website

    Preservation of ancient monument by agreement.—
    (1) The Collector may, with the previous sanction of 1
    [the Central Government],
    propose to the owner to enter into an agreement with 2
    [the Central
    Government] for the preservation of any protected monument in his district.

    ...snip....
    Enforcement of agreement.—
    (1) If the Collector apprehends that the owner or occupier of a monument
    intends to destroy, remove, alter, deface, or imperil the monument or to
    build on or near the site thereof in contravention of the terms of an
    agreement for its preservation under section 5, the Collector may make an
    order prohibiting any such contravention of the agreement.
    (2) If an owner or other person who is bound by an agreement for the
    preservation or maintenance of a monument under section 5 refuses to do
    any act which is in the opinion of the Collector necessary to such preservation
    or maintenance, or neglects to do any such act within such reasonable time
    as may be fixed by the Collector, the Collector may authorise any person to
    do any such act, and the expense of doing any such act or such portion of the
    expense as the owner may be liable to pay under the agreement may be
    recovered from the owner as if it were in arrears of land-revenue.
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  127. @jilles dykstra
    Dubious

    Walter Rodney, 'How Europe Underdeveloped Africa', London, 1983

    Juhani Koponen, 'People and Production in late precolonial Tanzania, History and Structures', Helsinki 1988

    Richard F. Burton, 'First Footsteps in East Africa', 1856, 2000, Köln

    Steven Feierman, 'The Shambaa Kingdom, A History', 1974 Madison

    Jan Vansina, ‘The Children of Woot, A History of the Kuba Peoples’, 1978, Madison

    A very dubious source, wiki.
    That the British colonists were curious people is true.
    That they preserved much, I doubt very much.
    I think it was Burton who described the thoughtful agricultural practices he saw as first European travelling the area.

    Ignorance the west is staggering.

    That highly developed civilisations disappeared all over the world without Europeans destroying them simply is true.
    Why they disappeared we often do not know.

    Harappa and Mohenjo Daro in the now border area between India and Afghanistan were very impressive cities.
    It now is thought that the Indian continent moved in the east west direction, cutting off all rivers, the cities lived on water transport, what disappeared, together with irrigation.
    The Gilgamesh and Noah stories may have their origin in the movement.

    The Maya culture disappeared through drought.
    They sacrificed their children, our oil and gas sacrifice now, our most precious resources, often reminds me of what the Maya's did.
    The Maya sacrifice had no result, I wonder if our sacrifice will have any.

    The Yemen civilisation also disappeared through drought, and destruction in war, of an impressive irrigation system, the remnants of the huge dam still are there.

    What the Spanish destroyed in S America is terrible.
    Pizarro had never seen a clean city in his life before he terrorised and destroyed S America, for gold, something the people there considered worthless.
    Ronald Wright, 'Stolen Continents, Conquest and Resistance in the Americas', 1992, London

    European cities at the time were garbage dumps, thanks to the christian philosophy that the body was unclean, and unimportant.
    Thus the epidemics.
    The Romans already knew better.

    An afterthought.
    We at present may well be destroying western culture through immigration, in one or two thousand years, will anyone understand ?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Malla
    And who is to say, the same thing which is happening now in the West, did not happen with ancient Rome or ancient Persia. The same chosen tribe were running around then, as they are now.
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  128. @Malla
    I find this whole Afrocentrist claims about Europeans destroying African civilizations dubious.
    In Asia, most of the ruins of earlier civilization were discovered and preserved by European colonialists.
    For example take Angkor Wat of Cambodia for example. It was rediscovered by Frenchman Henri Mouhot. Similarly it were British archaeologists who similarly excavated many such monuments in India such as the Ajanta Ellora Caves.

    Not only that British historians did research about great Indian emperors like Ashoka who was long forgotten by Indians and educated Indian people about their own great history. So I do not see any such destruction of culture in Asia. India alone had monuments than all of Africa, Asian history more of a challenge to Europeans but I did not see any such destruction.

    The British tried their best to preserve Indian culture.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sanskrit_College_and_University
    Sanskrit College and University (erstwhile Sanskrit College) is a specialized state-government administered Liberal Arts University offering an undergraduate degree in Sanskrit language, Pali language, Linguistics and ancient Indian and world history.[1][2] It is one of the affiliated colleges of the University of Calcutta. Founded on 1 January 1824, Sanskrit College, is one of the oldest educational institutions in the subcontinent.[3] It is a traditional college that specializes in the scholarship of Indian tradition, philosophy and religion. It is located on College Street in central Kolkata. Its centrality is heightened by its proximity to Hindu School, Presidency College, Kolkata, the University of Calcutta, and the Indian Coffee House. It was established during the Governor-Generalship of Lord Amherst, based on a recommendation by HT James Prinsep and Thomas Babington Macaulay among others. The great Indian Hindu thinker from Bengal Iswarchandra Vidyasagr came from this college. It was recommended by Macaulay and Prinsep.

    Somnath Temple The British also got back the gates of Somnath Temple which was looted by the Afghans
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somnath_temple
    In 1782-83 AD, Maratha king Mahadaji Shinde, victoriously brought back three silver gates from Lahore after defeating Mahmud Shah Abdati, to Somnath. After refusal from priests of Gujarat and the then ruler Gaekwad to put them back on Somnath temple, these silver gates were placed in the temples of Ujjain. Today they can be seen in two temples of India, Mahakaleshwar Jyotirlinga and Gopal Mandir of Ujjain.[33][34][35] In 1842, Edward Law, 1st Earl of Ellenborough issued his the Proclamation of the Gates, in which he ordered the British army in Afghanistan to return via Ghazni and bring back to India the sandalwood gates from the tomb of Mahmud of Ghazni in Ghazni, Afghanistan. These were believed to have been taken by Mahmud from Somnath. There was a debate in the House of Commons in London in 1843 on the question of the gates of the temple.[36][37] After much crossfire between the British Government and the opposition, the gates were uprooted and brought back in triumph. But on arrival, they were found to be replicas of the original.[34] They were placed in a store-room in the Agra Fort where they still lie to the present day.[38][39]

    Ancient Monuments Preservation Act 1904
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Monuments_Preservation_Act_1904
    The Ancient Monuments Preservation Act, 1904 was passed in 18, March 1904 by British India during the times of Lord Curzon. it is expedient to provide for the preservation of ancient monuments, for the exercise of control over traffic in antiquities and over excavation in certain places, and for the protection and acquisition in certain cases of ancient monuments and of objects of archaeological, historical or artistic interest. Act preserves and restores ancient Indian monuments by Archaeological Survey of India.

    I would note that what the Europeans did in Africa is not what they did is Asia, the Middle East, or even Northern Africa.

    One has to remember blacks were seen as animals, just barely human. And absolutely on the lower ring of the mythical evolutionary time table, destined to be either destroyed or slaves by right of might and destined by God as decsendents of came to be subservient.

    In south Africa, when it thought that the home of Sheba was discovered, they looked that fortress and determined that it must have been by whites and the queen herself was white. They literally rewrote the historical anthropological record to reflect that belief. They could not conceive of blacks being intelligent enough to built such a massive elaborate walled structure – fortress. I have been repeatedly disappointed at the measures taken by Europeans to enforce their beliefs about Africa, And it was repeated time and time and time and time again.

    We love Asia and Asia loves that we love them for their intelligence — they and europenas lay claim to the first written languages. But we now know that the earliest complex language is from Africa, I think it dates back more than 6,000 years. The problem is not that it is just known today. It was known before the first ww, I think.

    Places like Timbuktu were not unknown to early white colonists, just covered up, facts of the continent.

    I want to avoid the long twisted convoluted discussion about slavery. But when the discussion about destruction is discussed, it includes the utter destruction of multiple civilizations because the categories were not based on civilizations, language but something as shallow as skin color. It explains why virtually no black people can trace their heritage back to the society from which they have come on the continent. The upside, is that blacks in the US of all people probably have better grasp of what it means to be a citizen, because the US is all they known from generation to generation.

    Read More
    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    Not just blacks.
    Even around 1920 weekend killing of Aboriginals was a sport in Australia.

    Labumore: Elsie Roughsey, ‘An Aboriginal Mother Tells of the Old and the New´, Fitzroy, Victoria, 1984
    , @Malla

    I would note that what the Europeans did in Africa is not what they did is Asia, the Middle East, or even Northern Africa.
     
    Seems like a dubious argument. Why the special hatred for Africa? India alone has several times more monuments than what Sub Saharan Africa ever had in 10000 years. It is Asia which the biggest challenge to the European sense of superiority, the evil YTs should have gone about destroying Indian and South East Asian monuments like Angkor Wat because simply these regions were under their direct rule. And in the beginning, before a historic consciousness arose, no Indian or Cambodian or Indonesian would have given a damn. Touch a living temple and the locals would have been in arms but destroy some ancient site, unused for centuries in the jungle and most natives would not even have cared. How much fun the evil Whities would have had destroying ancient monuments throughout Asia!!! But they did not. Not only did they not destroy the monuments, they studied the monuments and preserved the monuments. And I am sure they did not destroy monuments in Africa too except in some rare cases like battle.
    Most Indians had very little knowledge about the great Indian emperor Ashoka, he was all but forgotten. It were British East India Company scholars who researched Chinese and Greek documents and told us about our own glorious history.

    NOT ONLY THAT. Colonial Historians are responsible for the rise of Indian Hindu fundamentalist nationalism. Today's Hindutva hardcores who hate foreign influences on Indian history and want to remove all foreign influences on Indian culture/history including Islamic, Western/European/British as well as East Asian influences to create a Hindu Rastra (Hindu nation India) got all their inspiration from Colonial Historians. LOL. Colonial historians inspired hardcore Hindu Indian nationalism.
    Romila Thapar, who is one of the top Indian historians from Jamunalal Nehru University, JNU, one of the top universities of Independent India talks about this in the video.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STXzvkO6bZ4

    Colonel Orcott, a British historian had a famous theory that we Indians civilized the World, including Europe! That gave rise to the Out of India theory of Aryans, that Aryans were indigenous to India pushed around by Hinduvadi ultra nationalist crackpots. Evil YTS made us Indians into supermen!!!

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  129. @Alden
    It’s not true at all that the Cherokees were forced to move west.

    By that time, there were 2 distinct groups of Cherokees.

    One group was very assimilated to a farming economy, the concept of private property, English language literacy etc.

    The other faction was committed to the Indian tribal lifestyle which involved a lot of cattle and other stock theft and raiding and kidnapping of children and young teens.
    The Cherokee were told by president Jackson to make a choice:

    1. Assimilate to the Settlers farming lifestyle and stay east of the Mississippi

    2. Keep their tribal lifestyle and identification but move west away from the settled farmland.

    Some were already settled farmers and choose to stay and gave up their tribal identification. Their descendants are all over Tennessee, , Kentucky the Carolinas, and other states.

    Others kept their tribal identity and followed their chiefs West.

    There was a brave group that decided to stay and preserve their tribal lifestyle. They holed up in the mountains and the Army eventually gave up and let them alone. But with the army between them and the farmers, they could no longer raid, rob and kidnap the settlers.

    But by 1900 that brave group had also assimilated and intermarried.

    Why do people who know nothing about American history keep posting their mis conceptions about Indians into articles that have nothing to do with American Indians.

    Ah, sadly the community you reference is exactly the group I am referring to — they too were uprootted, despite adopting “the white man’s way”.

    It’s not for nothing that the Cherokee feel betrayed. I think you might find Mr. Kens Burns, The West instructive.

    I am not a liberal, but conservatives have got to stop pretending that what occurred is all liberal nonsense. The record on native Americans in the US is pretty clear.

    Absolutely civilizations passed without any help from Europe. That is not in the issue. And one can certainly point to archaeologists from Europe doing serious work to catalog African cultures. But that doesn’t reference what they did to the co-existing societies.

    Allow me to be clear, my issue with Europe is not archaeology, but their hypocrisy and the measures they used to justify that hypocrisy. Hence the reference to advanced or contemporary societies.

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  130. MEFOBILLS says:

    Henry Hazlitt put it, “Government has nothing to give to anybody that it doesn’t first take from somebody else.”

    Illana is quoting a libertarian jew, so she is making one of her few mistakes.

    It is the governments job to spend into the commons. By spending into the commons, it creates a virtuous cycle.

    Both the commons and inelastic markets require government regulation or ownership. Therefore, government IS an economic actor. Lowering PRICE is necessary for a well functioning economy. Government lower’s price in inelastic sectors by regulation and preventing monopoly.

    Government if it is intrusive into elastic markets raises prices, and Liberatarians like Hazlitt only focus on elastic market concepts.

    No austrian economist would ever agree that government has a legitimate role, and that government’s role is a fourth factor in production.

    If government becomes usurped, or steps outside of its role is a different argument than what constitutes proper economics. Austrian default position is government is bad, and some sort of magic market GOD can control everything.

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  131. Wally says:
    @Truth
    Well now, who had superior armed forces, Napoleon's French or the Russians he fought. Who had superior armed forces, Hitler's Germans or the Russians he fought? Ok, then it's not complicated.

    You are making no sense again.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Truth
    Well Wallz, it depends on who you are. Makes perfect sense to me, I tried to explain it to my Husky, he didn't get it either.
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  132. MEFOBILLS says:
    @Gene Su
    Arab Muslims would not bat an eye at enslaving 500 million black Africans. The Chinese would not enslave 500 million black Africans... because they are smart enough to know that the eventual consequence would be the drowning of their country and culture into the black African non-culture (as has happened here in the U.S.).

    The Arab slave trade in East Africa took many more slaves than did the West trade.

    Yet, there are blacks in the West today, descendants of this trade. In Arab lands, not so much.

    Why? Because Arabs made Eunichs of black males. This entailed cutting off both testicles and penis.

    Tent cities in North East Africa were used to house African Negroes for eunich procedure. For many years, the process had a high death rate. I have estimates that an African only lasted about 5 years in Arab Lands, so there was an on- going need for new slaves.

    because they are smart enough to know that the eventual consequence would be the drowning of their country and culture into the black African non-culture (as has happened here in the U.S.).

    Any sort of high importation rate, if accompanied by sterilization is PROVEN by history to be effective. Arab countries today are not drowned with African DNA.

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    • Replies: @Malla
    And who played a big part in stopping this brutal Arab slave trade? Well it was evil YT of course.

    For example, Gordon Pasha of Sudan

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_George_Gordon

    Moreover, considerable progress was made in the suppression of the slave trade.[104] Gordon wrote in a letter to his sister about the Africans living a “life of fear and misery”, but in spite of the “utter misery” of Equatoria that “I like this work”.[105] Gordon often personally intercepted slave convoys to arrest the slavers and break the chains of the slaves, but he found that the corrupt Egyptian bureaucrats usually sold the freed Africans back into slavery, and the expense of caring for thousands of freed slaves who were a long away from home burdensome.[106]

    During this period Gordon grew close to the Anti-Slavery Society, an evangelical Christian group based in London dedicated to ending slavery all over the world, and who regularly celebrated Gordon’s efforts to end slavery in the Sudan.[84] Urban wrote that: “Newspaper readers in Bolton or Beaminister had become enraged by stories about chained black children, cruelly abducted, being sold into slave markets…”, and Gordon’s anti-slavery efforts contributed to his image as a saintly man.[84]

    Gordon had come into conflict with the Egyptian governor of Khartoum and Sudan over his efforts to ban slavery.

    …snip….

    Governor-General of the Sudan
    As governor, Gordon faced a variety of challenges. Besides working to end slavery, Gordon carried out a series of reforms such as abolishing torture and public floggings where those opposed to the Egyptian state were flogged with a whip known as the kourbash made of buffalo hide

    Slavery was the basis of the Sudanese economy, and Gordon’s attempts to end the slave trade meant taking on very powerful vested interests, most notably Rahama Zobeir, known as the “King of the Slavers” as he was the richest and most powerful of all the slave traders in the entire Sudan. An insurrection had broken out in Darfur province led by associates of Zobeir and Gordon went to deal with it.. The insurgents were numerous, and he saw that diplomacy had a better chance of success. On 2 September 1877, Gordon clad in the full gold-braided ceremonial blue uniform of the Governor-General of the Sudan and wearing the tarboush (the type of fez reserved for a pasha), accompanied by an interpreter and a few bashi-bazouks, rode unannounced into the enemy camp to discuss the situation.[115]

    , @Malla
    There was powerful kingdom in India (in today's Pakistan) called Sindh. Sindh was full of black slaves from the Arab slave trade. They were called Zanj or Abeed and their descendants still live in Karachi port area as well as the black Makrani people in the interiors of Pakistan. Even though these descendants of Africans are muslims and have adopted Pakistani culture, most Pakistanis do not intermarry with them and keep a social distance from them.
    The powerful Sultan of Sindh was a powerful tough Sultan who believed in the institution of slavery and in keeping black slaves. But his empire was facing a threat from a new growing empire. The Sultan goes into battle but alas he is defeated. Sindh gets conquered by this new empire and one of the first laws passed by the new rulers was to free the slaves including black slaves and ban slavery. The Nobel laureate V.S. Naipaul talks about this history in his book 'Among The Believers' Can you guess which benevolent powerful Empire I am talking about that freed the slaves and banned slavery?

    You guessed it right, it was the British Empire.
    Evil YTs doing more evil by freeing blacks from slavery.

    V.S. Naipaul also writes in a different book of how White Jesuists or some Catholic priests bought some black slaves from Arab traders and set up the black slaves in a makeshift village and encouraged them to be self sufficient. After a year, when the White priests returned, they found the village empty. Guess what, the neighbouring local black tribes conquered the village and sold the freed slaves back into slavery anyways. Of course the freed slaves were newcomers in that region and would have been hapless in front of more established black tribes/ kingdoms in that neighbourhood.
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  133. @EliteCommInc.
    I would note that what the Europeans did in Africa is not what they did is Asia, the Middle East, or even Northern Africa.

    One has to remember blacks were seen as animals, just barely human. And absolutely on the lower ring of the mythical evolutionary time table, destined to be either destroyed or slaves by right of might and destined by God as decsendents of came to be subservient.


    In south Africa, when it thought that the home of Sheba was discovered, they looked that fortress and determined that it must have been by whites and the queen herself was white. They literally rewrote the historical anthropological record to reflect that belief. They could not conceive of blacks being intelligent enough to built such a massive elaborate walled structure - fortress. I have been repeatedly disappointed at the measures taken by Europeans to enforce their beliefs about Africa, And it was repeated time and time and time and time again.

    We love Asia and Asia loves that we love them for their intelligence -- they and europenas lay claim to the first written languages. But we now know that the earliest complex language is from Africa, I think it dates back more than 6,000 years. The problem is not that it is just known today. It was known before the first ww, I think.


    Places like Timbuktu were not unknown to early white colonists, just covered up, facts of the continent.

    I want to avoid the long twisted convoluted discussion about slavery. But when the discussion about destruction is discussed, it includes the utter destruction of multiple civilizations because the categories were not based on civilizations, language but something as shallow as skin color. It explains why virtually no black people can trace their heritage back to the society from which they have come on the continent. The upside, is that blacks in the US of all people probably have better grasp of what it means to be a citizen, because the US is all they known from generation to generation.

    Not just blacks.
    Even around 1920 weekend killing of Aboriginals was a sport in Australia.

    Labumore: Elsie Roughsey, ‘An Aboriginal Mother Tells of the Old and the New´, Fitzroy, Victoria, 1984

    Read More
    • Replies: @dfordoom

    Even around 1920 weekend killing of Aboriginals was a sport in Australia.
     
    Poppycock.

    You're rather naïvely accepting hysterical propaganda as proven fact. Keith Windschuttle's three-volume 'The Fabrication of Aboriginal History' demolishes the myths of Aboriginal genocide.
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  134. jay says:
    @Truth
    Oh, so they need US government?

    The US government executes hardly any criminals worthy of death.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Truth
    We're actually 4th in the world officially.

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2011/mar/29/death-penalty-countries-world
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  135. Malla says:
    @jilles dykstra
    Dubious

    Walter Rodney, 'How Europe Underdeveloped Africa', London, 1983

    Juhani Koponen, 'People and Production in late precolonial Tanzania, History and Structures', Helsinki 1988

    Richard F. Burton, 'First Footsteps in East Africa', 1856, 2000, Köln

    Steven Feierman, 'The Shambaa Kingdom, A History', 1974 Madison

    Jan Vansina, ‘The Children of Woot, A History of the Kuba Peoples’, 1978, Madison

    A very dubious source, wiki.
    That the British colonists were curious people is true.
    That they preserved much, I doubt very much.
    I think it was Burton who described the thoughtful agricultural practices he saw as first European travelling the area.

    Ignorance the west is staggering.

    That highly developed civilisations disappeared all over the world without Europeans destroying them simply is true.
    Why they disappeared we often do not know.

    Harappa and Mohenjo Daro in the now border area between India and Afghanistan were very impressive cities.
    It now is thought that the Indian continent moved in the east west direction, cutting off all rivers, the cities lived on water transport, what disappeared, together with irrigation.
    The Gilgamesh and Noah stories may have their origin in the movement.

    The Maya culture disappeared through drought.
    They sacrificed their children, our oil and gas sacrifice now, our most precious resources, often reminds me of what the Maya's did.
    The Maya sacrifice had no result, I wonder if our sacrifice will have any.

    The Yemen civilisation also disappeared through drought, and destruction in war, of an impressive irrigation system, the remnants of the huge dam still are there.

    What the Spanish destroyed in S America is terrible.
    Pizarro had never seen a clean city in his life before he terrorised and destroyed S America, for gold, something the people there considered worthless.
    Ronald Wright, 'Stolen Continents, Conquest and Resistance in the Americas', 1992, London

    European cities at the time were garbage dumps, thanks to the christian philosophy that the body was unclean, and unimportant.
    Thus the epidemics.
    The Romans already knew better.

    Walter Rodney, ‘How Europe Underdeveloped Africa’, London, 1983

    Juhani Koponen, ‘People and Production in late precolonial Tanzania, History and Structures’, Helsinki 1988

    Richard F. Burton, ‘First Footsteps in East Africa’, 1856, 2000, Köln

    Libtard post colonial SJWs have made a fortune trying to convince us of this bullshit.

    The Maya culture disappeared through drought.

    I agree on this one. The Spanish did decimate many Meso American civilisations but I guess it had a lot more to do with religion than race.

    That they preserved much, I doubt very much.

    They did, more than we Indians did or were interested in doing at the earlier days of the East India company.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Monuments_Preservation_Act_1904

    The Ancient Monuments Preservation Act, 1904 was passed in 18, March 1904 by British India during the times of Lord Curzon. it is expedient to provide for the preservation of ancient monuments, for the exercise of control over traffic in antiquities and over excavation in certain places, and for the protection and acquisition in certain cases of ancient monuments and of objects of archaeological, historical or artistic interest. Act preserves and restores ancient Indian monuments by Archaeological Survey of India.

    Again if you think wiki is dubious check this out

    http://asichennai.gov.in/monuments_acts_rules.html

    Thsi the website of the Archeological Survey of India (Chennai cahpter), a department of the Government of Independent India.
    You can download the Ancient Monuments Preservation Act of 1904 by the British Government of India.

    From

    http://asi.nic.in/pdf_data/5.pdf

    The act by British India for the preservation of Indian monuments. The website again is an ASI (Archaeological Survey of India, Government of Independent India) website

    Preservation of ancient monument by agreement.—
    (1) The Collector may, with the previous sanction of 1
    [the Central Government],
    propose to the owner to enter into an agreement with 2
    [the Central
    Government] for the preservation of any protected monument in his district.

    …snip….
    Enforcement of agreement.—
    (1) If the Collector apprehends that the owner or occupier of a monument
    intends to destroy, remove, alter, deface, or imperil the monument or to
    build on or near the site thereof in contravention of the terms of an
    agreement for its preservation under section 5, the Collector may make an
    order prohibiting any such contravention of the agreement.
    (2) If an owner or other person who is bound by an agreement for the
    preservation or maintenance of a monument under section 5 refuses to do
    any act which is in the opinion of the Collector necessary to such preservation
    or maintenance, or neglects to do any such act within such reasonable time
    as may be fixed by the Collector, the Collector may authorise any person to
    do any such act, and the expense of doing any such act or such portion of the
    expense as the owner may be liable to pay under the agreement may be
    recovered from the owner as if it were in arrears of land-revenue.

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    • Replies: @Malla
    http://asi.nic.in/pdf_data/5.pdf

    More from the The Ancient Monuments Preservation Act, 1904 of British India pushed by Lord Curzon, the Governal General of India.

    Compulsory purchase of ancient monument.—
    (1) If the 1
    [Central Government] apprehends that a protected monument is in danger of being destroyed, injured or allowed to fall into decay, 2 [the Central Government may direct the Provincial Government to acquire it] under the provisions of the Land Acquisition Act, 1894 (I of 1894), as if the
    preservation of a protected monument were a “public purpose” within the meaning of that Act.


    more

    Power of Central Government to control mining, etc., near ancient monument.—
    (1) If the 2
    [Central Government] is of opinion that mining, quarrying, excavating, blasting and other operations of a like nature should be restricted or regulated for the purpose of protecting or preserving any ancient monument;
    the 3
    [Central Government] may, by notification in the 2 [Official Gazette],
    make rules—
    (a) fixing the boundaries of the area to which the rules are to apply, (b) forbidding the carrying on of mining, quarrying, excavating, blasting or any operation of a like nature except in accordance with the rules and with the terms of a licence, and (c) prescribing the authority by which, and the terms on which, licences may be granted to carry on any of the said operations.


    more

    Protection of place of worship from misuse, pollution or desecration.—

    (1) A place of worship or shrine maintained by the Government under this Act shall not be used for any purpose inconsistent with its character. (2) Where the Collector has, under section 4, purchased or taken a lease of any protected monument or has accepted a gift or bequest, or the Commissioner
    has, under the same section accepted the guardianship thereof, and such monument, or any part thereof, is periodically used for religious worship or observances by any community, the Collector shall make due provision for the protection such monument, or such part thereof, from pollution or
    desecration-
    (a) by prohibiting the entry therein, except in accordance with condition prescribed with the concurrence of the persons in religious charge of the said monument or part thereof, of any person not entitled so to enter by the religious usages of the community by which the monument or part
    thereof is used, or
    (b) by taking such other action as he may think necessary in this behalf.



    Yeah, sure, the evil YTs wanted to destroy ancient Indian monuments. LOL. The evil YT Brits were doing everything in their power to preserve Indian monuments and Indian history.
    , @jilles dykstra
    The Indian people were so greatful for these Acts that there was the Mutiny.
    Ghandi was asked what he thought of western civilisation, his answer 'that would be great'.
    Churchill spoke of Ghandi as 'half naked fakir'.
    Or read
    Jawaharlal Nehru, 'The discovery of India', Calcutta 1948
    The book was written during WWII while Nehru was in jail.
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  136. Truth says:
    @Wally
    You are making no sense again.

    Well Wallz, it depends on who you are. Makes perfect sense to me, I tried to explain it to my Husky, he didn’t get it either.

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  137. Truth says:
    @jay
    The US government executes hardly any criminals worthy of death.
    Read More
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  138. Malla says:
    @EliteCommInc.
    I would note that what the Europeans did in Africa is not what they did is Asia, the Middle East, or even Northern Africa.

    One has to remember blacks were seen as animals, just barely human. And absolutely on the lower ring of the mythical evolutionary time table, destined to be either destroyed or slaves by right of might and destined by God as decsendents of came to be subservient.


    In south Africa, when it thought that the home of Sheba was discovered, they looked that fortress and determined that it must have been by whites and the queen herself was white. They literally rewrote the historical anthropological record to reflect that belief. They could not conceive of blacks being intelligent enough to built such a massive elaborate walled structure - fortress. I have been repeatedly disappointed at the measures taken by Europeans to enforce their beliefs about Africa, And it was repeated time and time and time and time again.

    We love Asia and Asia loves that we love them for their intelligence -- they and europenas lay claim to the first written languages. But we now know that the earliest complex language is from Africa, I think it dates back more than 6,000 years. The problem is not that it is just known today. It was known before the first ww, I think.


    Places like Timbuktu were not unknown to early white colonists, just covered up, facts of the continent.

    I want to avoid the long twisted convoluted discussion about slavery. But when the discussion about destruction is discussed, it includes the utter destruction of multiple civilizations because the categories were not based on civilizations, language but something as shallow as skin color. It explains why virtually no black people can trace their heritage back to the society from which they have come on the continent. The upside, is that blacks in the US of all people probably have better grasp of what it means to be a citizen, because the US is all they known from generation to generation.

    I would note that what the Europeans did in Africa is not what they did is Asia, the Middle East, or even Northern Africa.

    Seems like a dubious argument. Why the special hatred for Africa? India alone has several times more monuments than what Sub Saharan Africa ever had in 10000 years. It is Asia which the biggest challenge to the European sense of superiority, the evil YTs should have gone about destroying Indian and South East Asian monuments like Angkor Wat because simply these regions were under their direct rule. And in the beginning, before a historic consciousness arose, no Indian or Cambodian or Indonesian would have given a damn. Touch a living temple and the locals would have been in arms but destroy some ancient site, unused for centuries in the jungle and most natives would not even have cared. How much fun the evil Whities would have had destroying ancient monuments throughout Asia!!! But they did not. Not only did they not destroy the monuments, they studied the monuments and preserved the monuments. And I am sure they did not destroy monuments in Africa too except in some rare cases like battle.
    Most Indians had very little knowledge about the great Indian emperor Ashoka, he was all but forgotten. It were British East India Company scholars who researched Chinese and Greek documents and told us about our own glorious history.

    NOT ONLY THAT. Colonial Historians are responsible for the rise of Indian Hindu fundamentalist nationalism. Today’s Hindutva hardcores who hate foreign influences on Indian history and want to remove all foreign influences on Indian culture/history including Islamic, Western/European/British as well as East Asian influences to create a Hindu Rastra (Hindu nation India) got all their inspiration from Colonial Historians. LOL. Colonial historians inspired hardcore Hindu Indian nationalism.
    Romila Thapar, who is one of the top Indian historians from Jamunalal Nehru University, JNU, one of the top universities of Independent India talks about this in the video.

    Colonel Orcott, a British historian had a famous theory that we Indians civilized the World, including Europe! That gave rise to the Out of India theory of Aryans, that Aryans were indigenous to India pushed around by Hinduvadi ultra nationalist crackpots. Evil YTS made us Indians into supermen!!!

    Read More
    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
    excuse the delay and I hate to repeat but . . .

    India is in Asia the nature of that relationship was vastly different than with the peoples of Africa and their various states.

    I suspect, there are several reasons previously noted. And make no mistake, the Indian subcontinent is riddled with lost civilizations resulting from European battles for resources.
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  139. Malla says:
    @Malla

    Walter Rodney, ‘How Europe Underdeveloped Africa’, London, 1983

    Juhani Koponen, ‘People and Production in late precolonial Tanzania, History and Structures’, Helsinki 1988

    Richard F. Burton, ‘First Footsteps in East Africa’, 1856, 2000, Köln
     
    Libtard post colonial SJWs have made a fortune trying to convince us of this bullshit.

    The Maya culture disappeared through drought.
     
    I agree on this one. The Spanish did decimate many Meso American civilisations but I guess it had a lot more to do with religion than race.

    That they preserved much, I doubt very much.
     
    They did, more than we Indians did or were interested in doing at the earlier days of the East India company.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Monuments_Preservation_Act_1904

    The Ancient Monuments Preservation Act, 1904 was passed in 18, March 1904 by British India during the times of Lord Curzon. it is expedient to provide for the preservation of ancient monuments, for the exercise of control over traffic in antiquities and over excavation in certain places, and for the protection and acquisition in certain cases of ancient monuments and of objects of archaeological, historical or artistic interest. Act preserves and restores ancient Indian monuments by Archaeological Survey of India.

    Again if you think wiki is dubious check this out
    http://asichennai.gov.in/monuments_acts_rules.html
    Thsi the website of the Archeological Survey of India (Chennai cahpter), a department of the Government of Independent India.
    You can download the Ancient Monuments Preservation Act of 1904 by the British Government of India.

    From
    http://asi.nic.in/pdf_data/5.pdf
    The act by British India for the preservation of Indian monuments. The website again is an ASI (Archaeological Survey of India, Government of Independent India) website

    Preservation of ancient monument by agreement.—
    (1) The Collector may, with the previous sanction of 1
    [the Central Government],
    propose to the owner to enter into an agreement with 2
    [the Central
    Government] for the preservation of any protected monument in his district.

    ...snip....
    Enforcement of agreement.—
    (1) If the Collector apprehends that the owner or occupier of a monument
    intends to destroy, remove, alter, deface, or imperil the monument or to
    build on or near the site thereof in contravention of the terms of an
    agreement for its preservation under section 5, the Collector may make an
    order prohibiting any such contravention of the agreement.
    (2) If an owner or other person who is bound by an agreement for the
    preservation or maintenance of a monument under section 5 refuses to do
    any act which is in the opinion of the Collector necessary to such preservation
    or maintenance, or neglects to do any such act within such reasonable time
    as may be fixed by the Collector, the Collector may authorise any person to
    do any such act, and the expense of doing any such act or such portion of the
    expense as the owner may be liable to pay under the agreement may be
    recovered from the owner as if it were in arrears of land-revenue.

    http://asi.nic.in/pdf_data/5.pdf

    More from the The Ancient Monuments Preservation Act, 1904 of British India pushed by Lord Curzon, the Governal General of India.

    Compulsory purchase of ancient monument.—
    (1) If the 1
    [Central Government] apprehends that a protected monument is in danger of being destroyed, injured or allowed to fall into decay, 2 [the Central Government may direct the Provincial Government to acquire it] under the provisions of the Land Acquisition Act, 1894 (I of 1894), as if the
    preservation of a protected monument were a “public purpose” within the meaning of that Act.

    more

    Power of Central Government to control mining, etc., near ancient monument.—
    (1) If the 2
    [Central Government] is of opinion that mining, quarrying, excavating, blasting and other operations of a like nature should be restricted or regulated for the purpose of protecting or preserving any ancient monument;
    the 3
    [Central Government] may, by notification in the 2 [Official Gazette],
    make rules—
    (a) fixing the boundaries of the area to which the rules are to apply, (b) forbidding the carrying on of mining, quarrying, excavating, blasting or any operation of a like nature except in accordance with the rules and with the terms of a licence, and (c) prescribing the authority by which, and the terms on which, licences may be granted to carry on any of the said operations.

    more

    Protection of place of worship from misuse, pollution or desecration.—

    (1) A place of worship or shrine maintained by the Government under this Act shall not be used for any purpose inconsistent with its character. (2) Where the Collector has, under section 4, purchased or taken a lease of any protected monument or has accepted a gift or bequest, or the Commissioner
    has, under the same section accepted the guardianship thereof, and such monument, or any part thereof, is periodically used for religious worship or observances by any community, the Collector shall make due provision for the protection such monument, or such part thereof, from pollution or
    desecration-
    (a) by prohibiting the entry therein, except in accordance with condition prescribed with the concurrence of the persons in religious charge of the said monument or part thereof, of any person not entitled so to enter by the religious usages of the community by which the monument or part
    thereof is used, or
    (b) by taking such other action as he may think necessary in this behalf.

    Yeah, sure, the evil YTs wanted to destroy ancient Indian monuments. LOL. The evil YT Brits were doing everything in their power to preserve Indian monuments and Indian history.

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  140. Malla says:
    @MEFOBILLS
    The Arab slave trade in East Africa took many more slaves than did the West trade.

    Yet, there are blacks in the West today, descendants of this trade. In Arab lands, not so much.

    Why? Because Arabs made Eunichs of black males. This entailed cutting off both testicles and penis.

    Tent cities in North East Africa were used to house African Negroes for eunich procedure. For many years, the process had a high death rate. I have estimates that an African only lasted about 5 years in Arab Lands, so there was an on- going need for new slaves.

    because they are smart enough to know that the eventual consequence would be the drowning of their country and culture into the black African non-culture (as has happened here in the U.S.).
     
    Any sort of high importation rate, if accompanied by sterilization is PROVEN by history to be effective. Arab countries today are not drowned with African DNA.

    And who played a big part in stopping this brutal Arab slave trade? Well it was evil YT of course.

    For example, Gordon Pasha of Sudan

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_George_Gordon

    Moreover, considerable progress was made in the suppression of the slave trade.[104] Gordon wrote in a letter to his sister about the Africans living a “life of fear and misery”, but in spite of the “utter misery” of Equatoria that “I like this work”.[105] Gordon often personally intercepted slave convoys to arrest the slavers and break the chains of the slaves, but he found that the corrupt Egyptian bureaucrats usually sold the freed Africans back into slavery, and the expense of caring for thousands of freed slaves who were a long away from home burdensome.[106]

    During this period Gordon grew close to the Anti-Slavery Society, an evangelical Christian group based in London dedicated to ending slavery all over the world, and who regularly celebrated Gordon’s efforts to end slavery in the Sudan.[84] Urban wrote that: “Newspaper readers in Bolton or Beaminister had become enraged by stories about chained black children, cruelly abducted, being sold into slave markets…”, and Gordon’s anti-slavery efforts contributed to his image as a saintly man.[84]

    Gordon had come into conflict with the Egyptian governor of Khartoum and Sudan over his efforts to ban slavery.

    …snip….

    Governor-General of the Sudan
    As governor, Gordon faced a variety of challenges. Besides working to end slavery, Gordon carried out a series of reforms such as abolishing torture and public floggings where those opposed to the Egyptian state were flogged with a whip known as the kourbash made of buffalo hide

    Slavery was the basis of the Sudanese economy, and Gordon’s attempts to end the slave trade meant taking on very powerful vested interests, most notably Rahama Zobeir, known as the “King of the Slavers” as he was the richest and most powerful of all the slave traders in the entire Sudan. An insurrection had broken out in Darfur province led by associates of Zobeir and Gordon went to deal with it.. The insurgents were numerous, and he saw that diplomacy had a better chance of success. On 2 September 1877, Gordon clad in the full gold-braided ceremonial blue uniform of the Governor-General of the Sudan and wearing the tarboush (the type of fez reserved for a pasha), accompanied by an interpreter and a few bashi-bazouks, rode unannounced into the enemy camp to discuss the situation.[115]

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  141. Malla says:
    @MEFOBILLS
    The Arab slave trade in East Africa took many more slaves than did the West trade.

    Yet, there are blacks in the West today, descendants of this trade. In Arab lands, not so much.

    Why? Because Arabs made Eunichs of black males. This entailed cutting off both testicles and penis.

    Tent cities in North East Africa were used to house African Negroes for eunich procedure. For many years, the process had a high death rate. I have estimates that an African only lasted about 5 years in Arab Lands, so there was an on- going need for new slaves.

    because they are smart enough to know that the eventual consequence would be the drowning of their country and culture into the black African non-culture (as has happened here in the U.S.).
     
    Any sort of high importation rate, if accompanied by sterilization is PROVEN by history to be effective. Arab countries today are not drowned with African DNA.

    There was powerful kingdom in India (in today’s Pakistan) called Sindh. Sindh was full of black slaves from the Arab slave trade. They were called Zanj or Abeed and their descendants still live in Karachi port area as well as the black Makrani people in the interiors of Pakistan. Even though these descendants of Africans are muslims and have adopted Pakistani culture, most Pakistanis do not intermarry with them and keep a social distance from them.
    The powerful Sultan of Sindh was a powerful tough Sultan who believed in the institution of slavery and in keeping black slaves. But his empire was facing a threat from a new growing empire. The Sultan goes into battle but alas he is defeated. Sindh gets conquered by this new empire and one of the first laws passed by the new rulers was to free the slaves including black slaves and ban slavery. The Nobel laureate V.S. Naipaul talks about this history in his book ‘Among The Believers’ Can you guess which benevolent powerful Empire I am talking about that freed the slaves and banned slavery?

    You guessed it right, it was the British Empire.
    Evil YTs doing more evil by freeing blacks from slavery.

    V.S. Naipaul also writes in a different book of how White Jesuists or some Catholic priests bought some black slaves from Arab traders and set up the black slaves in a makeshift village and encouraged them to be self sufficient. After a year, when the White priests returned, they found the village empty. Guess what, the neighbouring local black tribes conquered the village and sold the freed slaves back into slavery anyways. Of course the freed slaves were newcomers in that region and would have been hapless in front of more established black tribes/ kingdoms in that neighbourhood.

    Read More
    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    Benevolent empire.
    Read about the benevolent bloodbath by the British in
    Ian Hernon, 'Britain's Forgotten Wars, Colonial Campaigns of the 19th Century', 2003, 2007, Chalford - Stroud
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  142. Ed says:
    @Bayan
    Reasonable article.

    But I think South Africa has the democratic framework and experience that they will be able to make corrections and move forward. It will be struggle, but winnable.

    Most of the rest of Africa has difficulty embarking on the right road.

    What are the solutions? Hope Ilana's next article will be on solutions as she sees them.

    Really? Feel like South Africa is on the cusp of imploding. I watched this Netflix documentary series where some British black guy goes around the world reporting. He visited some hospital in suburban CapeTown dominated by blacks. The hospital there, fairly new sees 100s of knife victims every weekend. It’s so bad it’s become something of a global Mecca for young doctors who want trauma training.

    In the rest of Africa the blacks are surrounded by misery and poverty but in SA they’re so closed to modern living but can’t access. They’ll blame whites. The middle class blacks not a particurly enterprising group will feed into it to capture more of the state and get a head start on expropriation.

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  143. fnn says:
    @Bayan
    Reasonable article.

    But I think South Africa has the democratic framework and experience that they will be able to make corrections and move forward. It will be struggle, but winnable.

    Most of the rest of Africa has difficulty embarking on the right road.

    What are the solutions? Hope Ilana's next article will be on solutions as she sees them.

    More not very encouraging news from South Africa:

    http://freewestmedia.com/2017/12/23/south-african-blacks-burn-trains-at-alarming-rate/

    South African blacks burn trains at alarming rate

    Black commuters in South Africa have a long history of burning trains and rioting in stations, often on the flimsiest of pretexts.

    The newly appointed CEO of the Passenger Rail Agency of South Africa (PRASA), Cromet Molepo, said on radio last week that his organisation was “losing 80 coaches per week due to arson and vandalism”. Not only is PRASA in a crisis due to corruption and financial mismanagement, but its mainly black passengers are also attacking trains in an astonishing display of destructive rage.

    On 9 May this year, the country’s president Jacob Zuma, appealed to commuters not to burn trains. “We have experienced shocking incidents in this country where people burn trains because they arrived late at the station and made them late for work. That is too drastic and is totally unacceptable. As we hand over such infrastructure, we appeal to our people to handle it with care. These are your trains. Look after them so that they can carry you for many years to come.”

    Read More
    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    A relative of mine lived in S Africa from 1955 until 1985.
    He loved the country, for the scenery.
    Until his death, he died at 91 years, he yearly visited the country.
    Every time he had been there he told me about the deterioration, white people in the street where he was staying having been shot to death when when stepping out of their cars.
    Retiring whites building homes far inland in places, as he said 'where the blacks have not yet learned how to steal'.
    Whites in Johannesburg live in concentration camps, guarded communities.
    Despite this, one my my children stayed there, if you want to to leave the house you have to pass three security systems.
    Or on how the whole centre of Durban had been taken over by blacks, having become slum.
    Or how just in appearance blacks run the country, next to any important black was a white doing the job.
    As he said 'the black just plays with his laptop, and let himself be driven around in a chauffeured car'.
    Near Durban complete new city centre has been built.
    In the case of S Africa, I do not see how the west caused the escalating chaos.
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  144. dfordoom says: • Website
    @jilles dykstra
    Not just blacks.
    Even around 1920 weekend killing of Aboriginals was a sport in Australia.

    Labumore: Elsie Roughsey, ‘An Aboriginal Mother Tells of the Old and the New´, Fitzroy, Victoria, 1984

    Even around 1920 weekend killing of Aboriginals was a sport in Australia.

    Poppycock.

    You’re rather naïvely accepting hysterical propaganda as proven fact. Keith Windschuttle’s three-volume ‘The Fabrication of Aboriginal History’ demolishes the myths of Aboriginal genocide.

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    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    The complete disappearance of the Tasmania Aboriginals is also a myth ?
    William Pember Reeves, 'The Long White Cloud, AO TEA ROA', 1898, 1924, 1998, Middlesex
    F E Maning, 'Old New Zealand', 1887, 1980, Auckland
    Marcus Clarke, 'For the Term of his Natural Life', 1874, 1970, London
    Robert Hughes, 'De fatale kust, Het epos van Australië', 1988, Amsterdam (The fatal shore, The epic of Australia's founding, 1986, New York)
    These books suffice, with the earlier mentioned autobiography, how the British behaved there.
    Alas they treated the criminals deported for minor offences not much better.
    One of my children recently visited Australia.
    Laws stating that Aboriginals are not human just were abolished a few years ago.
    The interesting thing about books is that once published, you cannot change them, destroying all of them also is impossible.
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  145. Malla says:
    @Okechukwu

    Billions of dollars are outright given to African nations every year. Some of the money comes from on the government, some from the NGOs aka poverty pimp hustlers and other sources
     
    And how many tens of billions of dollars does the West take out of Africa, often via outright theft? There are verified reports of Western oil companies in Nigeria simply loading cargoes and leaving without paying with the connivance of corrupt dictators who they put in power. That's the very tip of the iceberg.

    Western food aid is a sham that does nothing but destroy the indigenous African farming industries. Both the EU and US heavily subsidize their farmers. Those farmers are then able to dump products in Africa which would otherwise get destroyed. How are African farmers supposed to compete against product dumping? At least the EU has recently started taking steps to remedy this situation.

    And how many tens of billions of dollars does the West take out of Africa, often via outright theft? There are verified reports of Western oil companies in Nigeria simply loading cargoes and leaving without paying with the connivance of corrupt dictators who they put in power. That’s the very tip of the iceberg.

    That is true, but is it the globalist elites who not only loot African countries but also loot White tax payers in so called aid. The elites make their profits and the cost is given to the White tax payers. And now a days the globalist elites do not even pay much tax in first world countries and use tax heavens to escape taxation as much as possible. It is total scam.

    Both the EU and US heavily subsidize their farmers. Those farmers are then able to dump products in Africa which would otherwise get destroyed. How are African farmers supposed to compete against product dumping?

    The US, EU, Japan have to subsidize the farmers because only that will keep farming profitable in the first world, where the costs of living is much higher than the third world. Very few people in the first world will take farming as a profession otherwise.
    As far as dumping food into the African market, of course that is wrong. African farmers should be encouraged to feed the African market. Only if there is crop failure in some emergency, should food aid be given.

    Read More
    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    If European farmers are not subsidized most of Europe would become wood.
    And Europe would be completely dependent on imported food.
    I'm curious if you know a solution.
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  146. Malla says:
    @Okechukwu

    No they did not. Rhodesia was brought down by the U.S.A and Britain.
     
    Yeah, right. Rhodesia was defeated on the battlefield. USA and Britain rushed in to give them something of a more dignified exist. Otherwise they all would have been rounded up and shot as war criminals.

    There was no chance in hell that ZANU and ZAPU had any chance of defeating the Rhodesian Army. If there were no sanctions placed on Rhodesia, the Rhodesian government would have been still around and Mugabe would have died in some jungle hideout.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Third world nationalist
    There is no way the Rhodesians could have won in the long run. The white population was called up for military service and the economy has grinding to a halt because people were being diverted away from the economy. The African guerilla tactics were working well. Whites were also leaving in the country due to the war. The Africans on the other hand had no option to leave the country so they stayed and fought.
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  147. @Malla
    There was no chance in hell that ZANU and ZAPU had any chance of defeating the Rhodesian Army. If there were no sanctions placed on Rhodesia, the Rhodesian government would have been still around and Mugabe would have died in some jungle hideout.

    There is no way the Rhodesians could have won in the long run. The white population was called up for military service and the economy has grinding to a halt because people were being diverted away from the economy. The African guerilla tactics were working well. Whites were also leaving in the country due to the war. The Africans on the other hand had no option to leave the country so they stayed and fought.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Malla
    You raise some good points but the terrorists/ freedom fighters were hapless infront of the Rhodesian Army who had both Whites as well as blacks in them. Remember Rhodesia did not have an Apartheid like policy like South Africa. All they ZANUs were doing were terrorist tactics.

    It cannot be denied that the British and the American Henry Kissinger played the biggest role in the destruction of Rhodesia.
    One of best books ever written on Rhodesia is

    https://archive.org/details/TheBattleForRhodesia

    From that book by Douglas Reed, I have linked above

    Here were two minds with a single thought, the one in Moscow the other in Washington. Without
    being grossly cynical, I reasoned that Mr. Browder's heart beat for the world revolution, not for the
    African peoples. Here, it seemed, was the original blueprint of the Point Four blueprint for Africa,
    and someone must have sold it as an original to somebody in Washington, as dealers have
    occasionally been known to pass off a bogus painting as a genuine Old Master.

    The above explains everything.

    Also check out in the book how international media fooled the world about Rhodesia just like they would about South Africa much later.

    "World News": a telephone call to Salisbury would have shown its falsity. In fact, reports from Dar
    es Salaam or Zambia about Rhodesia should never be published or broadcast without verification.
    (In this case the B.B.C. next day gave out a casual "disclaimer": disclaimers never correct the
    original impression made on the mass mind).
    Two instances (of many reported to me) have been verified by me, of "persuasion" by television.
    The Rhodesian managing director of a big international concern, happening to dine with an M.P. in
    Belfast, saw on television pictures of a large building burning "during current riots in one of the
    main cities of Rhodesia" and thought of returning at once: he said to his wife, "Things must be
    getting bad." Then the smoke cleared; he saw through it the name "Meikles", and realised that the
    picture was of the burning of Meikle's department store in Bulawayo many years before.
    The daughter of the Rhodesian Minister for Law and Order, Mr. Lardner-Burke, was similarly
    alarmed when, in Britain, she saw pictures of "rioting in Rhodesia". Then a friend said, "What are
    those camels?" Rhodesia has no camels and these were pictures of rioting in the Sudan.


    There is no way the Rhodesians could have won in the long run.
     
    Militarily they could have but demographically no. White man's medicine was responsible for a population boost among blacks.
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  148. @dfordoom

    Even around 1920 weekend killing of Aboriginals was a sport in Australia.
     
    Poppycock.

    You're rather naïvely accepting hysterical propaganda as proven fact. Keith Windschuttle's three-volume 'The Fabrication of Aboriginal History' demolishes the myths of Aboriginal genocide.

    The complete disappearance of the Tasmania Aboriginals is also a myth ?
    William Pember Reeves, ‘The Long White Cloud, AO TEA ROA’, 1898, 1924, 1998, Middlesex
    F E Maning, ‘Old New Zealand’, 1887, 1980, Auckland
    Marcus Clarke, ‘For the Term of his Natural Life’, 1874, 1970, London
    Robert Hughes, ‘De fatale kust, Het epos van Australië’, 1988, Amsterdam (The fatal shore, The epic of Australia’s founding, 1986, New York)
    These books suffice, with the earlier mentioned autobiography, how the British behaved there.
    Alas they treated the criminals deported for minor offences not much better.
    One of my children recently visited Australia.
    Laws stating that Aboriginals are not human just were abolished a few years ago.
    The interesting thing about books is that once published, you cannot change them, destroying all of them also is impossible.

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    • Replies: @dfordoom

    The complete disappearance of the Tasmania Aboriginals is also a myth ?
     
    The idea of deliberate genocide is certainly a myth.

    But then one of your relatives visited Australia once so you clearly know far more about Australia than I do. I've only lived here for my entire life.
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  149. @Malla

    And how many tens of billions of dollars does the West take out of Africa, often via outright theft? There are verified reports of Western oil companies in Nigeria simply loading cargoes and leaving without paying with the connivance of corrupt dictators who they put in power. That’s the very tip of the iceberg.
     
    That is true, but is it the globalist elites who not only loot African countries but also loot White tax payers in so called aid. The elites make their profits and the cost is given to the White tax payers. And now a days the globalist elites do not even pay much tax in first world countries and use tax heavens to escape taxation as much as possible. It is total scam.

    Both the EU and US heavily subsidize their farmers. Those farmers are then able to dump products in Africa which would otherwise get destroyed. How are African farmers supposed to compete against product dumping?
     
    The US, EU, Japan have to subsidize the farmers because only that will keep farming profitable in the first world, where the costs of living is much higher than the third world. Very few people in the first world will take farming as a profession otherwise.
    As far as dumping food into the African market, of course that is wrong. African farmers should be encouraged to feed the African market. Only if there is crop failure in some emergency, should food aid be given.

    If European farmers are not subsidized most of Europe would become wood.
    And Europe would be completely dependent on imported food.
    I’m curious if you know a solution.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Malla

    If European farmers are not subsidized most of Europe would become wood.
    And Europe would be completely dependent on imported food.
    I’m curious if you know a solution.
     
    Well I said subsidies are needed. But there are other solutions.
    The solution should start with destroying the Supermarket oligarchies and getting the traditional mom and pop, greengrocers, butchers etc... back. Thus farmers will have more choice in selling their produce.
    Giving easy loans, tax breaks to European farmers, using ways to make farming a viable occupation by the native youth etc...
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  150. @Malla

    Walter Rodney, ‘How Europe Underdeveloped Africa’, London, 1983

    Juhani Koponen, ‘People and Production in late precolonial Tanzania, History and Structures’, Helsinki 1988

    Richard F. Burton, ‘First Footsteps in East Africa’, 1856, 2000, Köln
     
    Libtard post colonial SJWs have made a fortune trying to convince us of this bullshit.

    The Maya culture disappeared through drought.
     
    I agree on this one. The Spanish did decimate many Meso American civilisations but I guess it had a lot more to do with religion than race.

    That they preserved much, I doubt very much.
     
    They did, more than we Indians did or were interested in doing at the earlier days of the East India company.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Monuments_Preservation_Act_1904

    The Ancient Monuments Preservation Act, 1904 was passed in 18, March 1904 by British India during the times of Lord Curzon. it is expedient to provide for the preservation of ancient monuments, for the exercise of control over traffic in antiquities and over excavation in certain places, and for the protection and acquisition in certain cases of ancient monuments and of objects of archaeological, historical or artistic interest. Act preserves and restores ancient Indian monuments by Archaeological Survey of India.

    Again if you think wiki is dubious check this out
    http://asichennai.gov.in/monuments_acts_rules.html
    Thsi the website of the Archeological Survey of India (Chennai cahpter), a department of the Government of Independent India.
    You can download the Ancient Monuments Preservation Act of 1904 by the British Government of India.

    From
    http://asi.nic.in/pdf_data/5.pdf
    The act by British India for the preservation of Indian monuments. The website again is an ASI (Archaeological Survey of India, Government of Independent India) website

    Preservation of ancient monument by agreement.—
    (1) The Collector may, with the previous sanction of 1
    [the Central Government],
    propose to the owner to enter into an agreement with 2
    [the Central
    Government] for the preservation of any protected monument in his district.

    ...snip....
    Enforcement of agreement.—
    (1) If the Collector apprehends that the owner or occupier of a monument
    intends to destroy, remove, alter, deface, or imperil the monument or to
    build on or near the site thereof in contravention of the terms of an
    agreement for its preservation under section 5, the Collector may make an
    order prohibiting any such contravention of the agreement.
    (2) If an owner or other person who is bound by an agreement for the
    preservation or maintenance of a monument under section 5 refuses to do
    any act which is in the opinion of the Collector necessary to such preservation
    or maintenance, or neglects to do any such act within such reasonable time
    as may be fixed by the Collector, the Collector may authorise any person to
    do any such act, and the expense of doing any such act or such portion of the
    expense as the owner may be liable to pay under the agreement may be
    recovered from the owner as if it were in arrears of land-revenue.

    The Indian people were so greatful for these Acts that there was the Mutiny.
    Ghandi was asked what he thought of western civilisation, his answer ‘that would be great’.
    Churchill spoke of Ghandi as ‘half naked fakir’.
    Or read
    Jawaharlal Nehru, ‘The discovery of India’, Calcutta 1948
    The book was written during WWII while Nehru was in jail.

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    • Replies: @Malla

    The Indian people were so grateful for these Acts that there was the Mutiny.
     
    The mutiny was done by the Bengal Army of the East India Company. The Madras Army and Bombay army did not take part in the mutiny. The mutiny was basically an attempt by Muslims in the Bengal army of the East India Company to recreate the Islamic Mughal empire since the Hindu Maratha Empire was conquered by the British Empire and was no more, the Maratha cavalry played a big role in decimating the Mughals earlier. The Mutiny also included many Maratha princes who had some axes to grind with the British.
    Though initially the mutiny included both Hindus and Muslims, very soon , the Muslims showed their true intentions (recreating Mughal Empire), some attacked Hindu temples and very soon many Hindus were praying for a British victory.
    The mutiny was mostly a religious anti-Christian mutiny than an anti British mutiny. Thus Europeans who had converted to Islam or a tiny few who were living like Hindus were not attacked but Indians who had converted to Protestant Christianity like the Indian doctor Chaman Lal was killed. The whole mutiny was the work of Islamic mullahs and maybe some Hindu holymen took part and the mysterious ancient networks which run throughout India took part in the conspiracy. The British were taken by surprise. But by fierce valour and resistance, the British finally won. Those same mysterious networks of fakirs and holy men played a role in spreading a fake rumour that the British purposely put cow and pig fat in the newly issued weaponry issued to the sepoys. That rumour triggered the mutiny.
    The Mughal emperor of India Bahadur Shah Zaffar was not interested in the mutiny but was used as a figure head. He was nearly under house arrest by the mutiny thugs.
    The fear of the Mughals coming back to power led to the Sikhs, Gurkhas and many others to support the British East India Company. Remember, the Bombay Army and Madras Army of the East India Company more or less refused to mutiny. These two armies were caste mixed.
    The Bengal Army was composed mostly of Bengali upper castes like Brahmins, Kayastas and Bumihar Brahmans of Bihar, as well as Muslims and obviously European troops. It was originally a Hindu upper caste-Muslim combined revolt but it seems Muslims were playing Hindus all along with a final aim to recreate the Islamic Mughal Empire. Many Maratha princes with some anger towards the Mughals joined in. One among them was Nana Saheb, who attacked a small British outpost/ a residency bungalow full of men, women as well as children. Unable to defeat the Brits within after days of seige, he had this cunning plan. He made a peace plan and promised the British inside with women and children an exit with boats ready. But when the British were about to embark on the boats, he cheated them and attacked them thus breaking the promises he had made to the British earlier. Afterwords, he was responsible for the infamous Bibighar massacre where hundreds of British women and children were massacred. But soon when faced with fresh British troops from Calcutta, his courage lost out and his army was decimated.
    Many Indian princes supported the British because they did not want the more brutal Mughal Empire to be reborn. The fearsome warrior Sikhs especially. Since the Mughals had many of their Kings tortured in the most barbaric way possible.

    https://i0.wp.com/haribhakt.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Bhai_Mati_Das_Killed_by_terrorist_aurangzeb.jpg?resize=450%2C334

    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-QmiR0-DTsHg/VevkUpbQ_CI/AAAAAAAAAEo/ZIN8i8HmhYg/s1600/15%2B-%2B1.jpg

    Mughal justice on Sikh gurus/ Kings
    , @Malla

    Jawaharlal Nehru, ‘The discovery of India’,
     
    I did read it, I was forced to read it. Most Indian nationalists call it propaganda because he hid the brutality done on Hindus by muslims and blamed everything on the British.
    , @Malla
    Guess what check out Jyoti Rao Phule

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jyotirao_Phule

    Jyotirao Govindrao Phule[a] (11 April 1827 – 28 November 1890) was an Indian social activist, a thinker, anti-caste social reformer and writer from Maharashtra.[2][3]

    His work extended to many fields including eradication of untouchability and the caste system, women’s emancipation and the reform of Hindu family life. On September 1873, Phule, along with his followers, formed the Satyashodhak Samaj (Society of Seekers of Truth) to attain equal rights for people from lower castes. Phule is regarded as an important figure of the social reform movement in Maharashtra He and his wife, Savitribai Phule, were pioneers of women’s education in India.

    http://egyankosh.ac.in/bitstream/123456789/20647/1/Unit-12.pdf

    British rule had brought to an end the tyranny and chaos of the regime of the last Peshwa in Maharashtra. The colonial rulers had not only established law and order but also the principle of equality before law. The earlier regime of Brahmin Peshwas had imposed strict limitations on education, occupation arid living standards of the lower castes and women. The new rulers opened the 1 opportunities in education and mobility in occupation for the members of all castes. Missionary schools and government colleges were ready to admit any student irrespective of caste origins. New ideas of equality and liberty could reach the moderately educated sections of the lower caste. Phule was probably the best product of this process. High caste reformers and leaders also had welcomed the colonial rule. It is not surprising that Phule who was concerned with the slavery of the lower castes also favoured British Rule He hoped that the new government which believes in equality between man and man would emancipate lower castes, from the domination of the Brahmins.
    The British rule opened up new employment opportunities in the administration. The political power at local level was also being given to the Indians. Phule who had worked as a member of the Poona Municipality could visualise how lower castes wouid be able to acquire power at local level during the period of British rule and also enter the colonial bureaucracy. He believed in Colonialism, Cast Order and the Tribal Societies the benevolent attitude of the British rulers towards the lower castes and therefore asked for a number of things from them. He was not sure how long the British rule would continue. Therefore, he wanted lower castes to exploit the opportunity and get rid of the tyranny of Brahmins. Brahmin rulers used to collect huge wealth out of taxes levied on poor lower castes population, but never used to spend even a paisa (penny, cent) for their welfare. On the contrary, the new regime was showing the signs of doing good things for the deprived people. Phule assured the colonial rulers that if the Shudras were made happy and contented, they need not worry about the loyalty of the subjects. He wanted the British government to abolish Brahmin Kulkarni’s position, and a post of village headman (Patil) filled on the basis of merit.
    In fact, Phule would have liked the British government to put an end to the balutedary system which was connected with caste specific occupations in the villages. He asked the government to make laws prohibiting customs and practices which gave subordinate status to women and untouchables. Phule wanted Brahmin bureaucracy to be replaced by non-Brahmin bureaucracy. But if the non-Brahmins were not available, the government should appoint, he thought, the British men to these posts. He believed that the British officers would take impartial view and were likely to side with lower castes.
    He knew that education had not yet percolated to the lower castes. The masses had not yet become politically conscious. The high caste elites were claiming that they were the true representatives of the people and therefore weie demanding political rights. This process, Phule thought, would reestablish the political supremacy of the high castes. Phule advised his followers from the lower castes not to participate the-movement for political rights. He argued that
    the Indian National Congress or other political associations were not national in the true sense of the term because they represented only high castes.
    Phule warned his followers against the selfish and cunning motives of the Brahmins in forming these associations and advised them to keep themselves away from such associations. In his Satya Shodhak Samaj, he had made it a rule not to discuss politics. In fact, we find that he had expressed more than once a complete and total loyalty towards the new government. He firmly believed that the almighty God had dethroned the tyrannical rulers and had established in their place a just, enlightened and peaceful British rule for the welfare of the masses.
    , @Malla
    Though Churchill was scum in his own right (I believe he was no worse than FDR or Stalin), his speech on India is telling.

    https://www.winstonchurchill.org/resources/speeches/1930-1938-the-wilderness/our-duty-in-india/

    If the British people are to lose their Indian Empire, they shall do so with their eyes open, and not be led blindfold into a trap.

    ….snip….

    Gandhi stands for the substitution of Brahmin domination for British rule in India. You will never be able to come to terms with Gandhi.

    ….snip….

    But that is not all. To abandon India to the rule of the Brahmins would be an act of cruel and wicked negligence. It would shame for ever those who bore its guilt. These Brahmins who mouth and patter the principles of Western Liberalism, and pose as philosophic and democratic politicians, are the same Brahmins who deny the primary rights of existence to nearly sixty millions of their own fellow countrymen whom they call ‘untouchable’, and whom they have by thousands of years of oppression actually taught to accept this sad position. They will not eat with these sixty millions, nor drink with them, nor treat them as human beings. They consider themselves contaminated even by their approach. And then in a moment they turn round and begin chopping logic with John Stuart Mill, or pleading the rights of man with Jean Jacques Rousseau.

    …..snip…..

    Let me just direct your attention once more upon these untouchables, fifty or sixty millions of them, that is to say more than the whole population of the British Isles; all living their lives in acceptance of the validity of the awful curse pronounced upon them by the Brahmins. A multitude as big as a nation, men, women and children deprived of hope and of the status of humanity. Their plight is worse than that of slaves, because they have been taught to consent not only to a physical but to a psychic servitude and prostration.

    ……snip…..

    There is a more squalid aspect. Hitherto for generations it has been the British policy that no white official should have any interest or profit other than his salary and pension out of Indian administration. All concession-hunters and European adventurers, company-promoters and profit-seekers have been rigorously barred and banned. But now that there is spread through India the belief that we are a broken, bankrupt, played-out power, and that our rule is going to pass away and be transferred in the name of the majority to the Brahmin sect, all sorts of greedy appetites have been excited, and many itching fingers are stretching and scratching at the vast pillage of a derelict Empire. I read in the Times newspaper, in the Times mind you, only last week of the crowd of rich Bombay merchants and millionaire millowners, millionaires on sweated labour, who surround Mr. Gandhi, the saint, the lawyer, Lord Irwin’s dear colleague and companion. What are they doing there, these men, and what is he doing in their houses?

    They are making arrangements that the greatest bluff, the greatest humbug and the greatest betrayal shall be followed by the greatest ramp. Nepotism, back-scratching, graft and corruption in every form will be the handmaidens of a Brahmin domination.
    , @Malla
    Trust me on this, if there is any book you need to read about India during the last days of the empire, it is this.

    http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks03/0300811h.html

    This is by an American woman, not British, who was there, who saw everything.
    , @dfordoom

    Ghandi was asked what he thought of western civilisation, his answer ‘that would be great’.
     
    A great quote, but almost certainly apocryphal.
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  151. @fnn
    More not very encouraging news from South Africa:
    http://freewestmedia.com/2017/12/23/south-african-blacks-burn-trains-at-alarming-rate/

    South African blacks burn trains at alarming rate

    Black commuters in South Africa have a long history of burning trains and rioting in stations, often on the flimsiest of pretexts.
     

    The newly appointed CEO of the Passenger Rail Agency of South Africa (PRASA), Cromet Molepo, said on radio last week that his organisation was “losing 80 coaches per week due to arson and vandalism”. Not only is PRASA in a crisis due to corruption and financial mismanagement, but its mainly black passengers are also attacking trains in an astonishing display of destructive rage.

    On 9 May this year, the country’s president Jacob Zuma, appealed to commuters not to burn trains. “We have experienced shocking incidents in this country where people burn trains because they arrived late at the station and made them late for work. That is too drastic and is totally unacceptable. As we hand over such infrastructure, we appeal to our people to handle it with care. These are your trains. Look after them so that they can carry you for many years to come.”
     

    A relative of mine lived in S Africa from 1955 until 1985.
    He loved the country, for the scenery.
    Until his death, he died at 91 years, he yearly visited the country.
    Every time he had been there he told me about the deterioration, white people in the street where he was staying having been shot to death when when stepping out of their cars.
    Retiring whites building homes far inland in places, as he said ‘where the blacks have not yet learned how to steal’.
    Whites in Johannesburg live in concentration camps, guarded communities.
    Despite this, one my my children stayed there, if you want to to leave the house you have to pass three security systems.
    Or on how the whole centre of Durban had been taken over by blacks, having become slum.
    Or how just in appearance blacks run the country, next to any important black was a white doing the job.
    As he said ‘the black just plays with his laptop, and let himself be driven around in a chauffeured car’.
    Near Durban complete new city centre has been built.
    In the case of S Africa, I do not see how the west caused the escalating chaos.

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  152. @Malla
    There was powerful kingdom in India (in today's Pakistan) called Sindh. Sindh was full of black slaves from the Arab slave trade. They were called Zanj or Abeed and their descendants still live in Karachi port area as well as the black Makrani people in the interiors of Pakistan. Even though these descendants of Africans are muslims and have adopted Pakistani culture, most Pakistanis do not intermarry with them and keep a social distance from them.
    The powerful Sultan of Sindh was a powerful tough Sultan who believed in the institution of slavery and in keeping black slaves. But his empire was facing a threat from a new growing empire. The Sultan goes into battle but alas he is defeated. Sindh gets conquered by this new empire and one of the first laws passed by the new rulers was to free the slaves including black slaves and ban slavery. The Nobel laureate V.S. Naipaul talks about this history in his book 'Among The Believers' Can you guess which benevolent powerful Empire I am talking about that freed the slaves and banned slavery?

    You guessed it right, it was the British Empire.
    Evil YTs doing more evil by freeing blacks from slavery.

    V.S. Naipaul also writes in a different book of how White Jesuists or some Catholic priests bought some black slaves from Arab traders and set up the black slaves in a makeshift village and encouraged them to be self sufficient. After a year, when the White priests returned, they found the village empty. Guess what, the neighbouring local black tribes conquered the village and sold the freed slaves back into slavery anyways. Of course the freed slaves were newcomers in that region and would have been hapless in front of more established black tribes/ kingdoms in that neighbourhood.

    Benevolent empire.
    Read about the benevolent bloodbath by the British in
    Ian Hernon, ‘Britain’s Forgotten Wars, Colonial Campaigns of the 19th Century’, 2003, 2007, Chalford – Stroud

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    • Replies: @Malla

    Read about the benevolent bloodbath by the British in
    Ian Hernon, ‘Britain’s Forgotten Wars, Colonial Campaigns of the 19th Century’, 2003, 2007, Chalford – Stroud
     
    Enuf of those cultural Marxist post colonial nonsense.
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  153. Ed says:
    @Okechukwu

    Show us your “verified reports”. As if anyone could simply load a tanker with oil without paying, without being noticed, without being approved for port departure.
    Show us the “verified reports”
     
    Haha. Another person here that has no inkling of the machinations of international business. For one thing, equity oil producers in Nigeria aren't necessarily monitored. They're known for taking millions of barrels of Nigerian oil without payment. They produce the oil and the loading and transportation facilities are owned by them. They are contractually obligated to return to Nigeria 60% of what they produce. But 60% of what is the question.

    With respect to verified corruption, here are a few tidbits:

    Investigators in Nigeria and in Italy claim that $1.1bn – which was paid to the government by international oil companies in 2006 – never made it into the national coffers.

    Instead, they say, it ended up in the hands of a middleman called Dan Etete and his company Malabu Oil.

    The money recovered is a tiny fraction of the amount allegedly taken but a coup for the government nonetheless.

    Since he came to office in 2015 President Muhammadu Buhari has been on a drive to repatriate money lost to corruption, much of which is spent in the US and the UK.

    Earlier this year, Italian prosecutors took up the case against ENI and Shell for their alleged part in the scandal.

    http://clubofmozambique.com/news/nigeria-recovers-millions-stolen-in-oil-scandal/

    Swiss-based commodity traders are profiting from “opaque joint ventures” with the Nigerian national oil company, according to a report by the Swiss non-governmental Berne Declaration group. The traders have denied the charge.

    “Every year Nigerian state coffers lose billions of dollars as large volumes of oil are exported for well below market price and the subsidy scheme for imports of refined crude oil products is systematically defrauded,” the Berne Declaration said in a press release on Monday detailing its report.

    “Ongoing investigations by the Nigerian authorities show that those Swiss traders dominant in oil exports have been making good business with dubious Nigerian import firms,” the NGO says.

    Although Nigeria is oil rich, it does not have its own refining capacities, and as a result has to import refined products. The import business is heavily subsidised.

    The Berne Declaration claims that $6.8 billion (CHF6.2 billion) of unjustifiable subsidies were paid out in 2009 and 2011 – the equivalent of nearly four times the Nigerian health budget for 2013.

    https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/traders-collude-in-oil-corruption--says-swiss-ngo/37260152

    “Indigenous” farming? Don’t make me laugh.
    They are capable of feeding only a small percentage of Africans.
    Show us verifiable data on your unfounded “dumping”
     
    Certainly.

    Rich nations are spending $250 billion (161.76 billion pound) annually subsidizing their agricultural sectors to the detriment of poor farmers as they artificially lower prices for some crops and block market access for growers from poor countries, a new study said.

    Japan spends 59 times as much supporting its own farmers than on food aid and nutrition support, while countries in the European Union spend 42 times as much and the United States spends 16 times as much, the Brookings Institution study said.

    “There are a lot of ways countries can give artificial support for their own farmers, hurting farmers in Asian or African countries who could supply that (product) for better value,” McArthur told the Thomson Reuters Foundation.

    https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-farming-subsidies/rich-nations-spend-250-billion-on-farm-subsidies-hurting-poor-growers-study-idUKKCN0SA2BF20151016

    Critics of US food aid subsidies say they help cause obesity among Americans and starvation among Africans.

    Now Care, one of the world's biggest charities, has announced that it will boycott the controversial policy of selling tons of heavily subsidised US produced food in African countries. Care wants the US government to send money to buy food locally, rather than unwanted US produced food.

    The farm lobby meanwhile has a stranglehold on Congress, which has balked at making any changes that would interfere with a system that promotes overproduction of commodities.

    Critics of the policy say it also undermines African farmers' ability to produce food, making the most vulnerable countries of the world even more dependent on aid to avert famine.

    Under the system Washington buys tens of millions of dollars of surplus corn and other products from agribusiness. The food, which can only be exported on US flagged ships, is then sold by charities to raise money to pay for emergencies.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/us-food-aid-is-wrecking-africa-claims-charity-5334550.html

    That Nigeria is so corrupt and is a weak state is not the fault of oil companies. If some govt official, general says to a company you pay me or your oil doesn’t ship out, that’s not the company’s fault.

    I do think that NGOs should leave and product dumping (you neglected to point out China’s dumping in rice and textiles ) should be addressed. I do believe Nigeria has banned some food imports in the hope of stoking domestic productions but I’ve read power and transport reliability remain a problem. Dangote had an eye opening interview about the issues he faces in doing business in Nigeria. He is bullish on Nigerian agriculture but note he doesn’t cite any of the issues you cited. He blames the Nigerian government.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2017-aliko-dangote-interview/

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  154. Ed says:
    @EliteCommInc.
    I look forward to the day when some African state stands up and says,


    "Africa is for Africans."

    Only black Africans are allowed citizenship in Liberia. It’s the 4th poorest country in the world so not sure if anyone much cares though.

    Nkrumah is probably as pan-African as you’re going to get.

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    Time will tell.
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  155. Malla says:
    @jilles dykstra
    The Indian people were so greatful for these Acts that there was the Mutiny.
    Ghandi was asked what he thought of western civilisation, his answer 'that would be great'.
    Churchill spoke of Ghandi as 'half naked fakir'.
    Or read
    Jawaharlal Nehru, 'The discovery of India', Calcutta 1948
    The book was written during WWII while Nehru was in jail.

    The Indian people were so grateful for these Acts that there was the Mutiny.

    The mutiny was done by the Bengal Army of the East India Company. The Madras Army and Bombay army did not take part in the mutiny. The mutiny was basically an attempt by Muslims in the Bengal army of the East India Company to recreate the Islamic Mughal empire since the Hindu Maratha Empire was conquered by the British Empire and was no more, the Maratha cavalry played a big role in decimating the Mughals earlier. The Mutiny also included many Maratha princes who had some axes to grind with the British.
    Though initially the mutiny included both Hindus and Muslims, very soon , the Muslims showed their true intentions (recreating Mughal Empire), some attacked Hindu temples and very soon many Hindus were praying for a British victory.
    The mutiny was mostly a religious anti-Christian mutiny than an anti British mutiny. Thus Europeans who had converted to Islam or a tiny few who were living like Hindus were not attacked but Indians who had converted to Protestant Christianity like the Indian doctor Chaman Lal was killed. The whole mutiny was the work of Islamic mullahs and maybe some Hindu holymen took part and the mysterious ancient networks which run throughout India took part in the conspiracy. The British were taken by surprise. But by fierce valour and resistance, the British finally won. Those same mysterious networks of fakirs and holy men played a role in spreading a fake rumour that the British purposely put cow and pig fat in the newly issued weaponry issued to the sepoys. That rumour triggered the mutiny.
    The Mughal emperor of India Bahadur Shah Zaffar was not interested in the mutiny but was used as a figure head. He was nearly under house arrest by the mutiny thugs.
    The fear of the Mughals coming back to power led to the Sikhs, Gurkhas and many others to support the British East India Company. Remember, the Bombay Army and Madras Army of the East India Company more or less refused to mutiny. These two armies were caste mixed.
    The Bengal Army was composed mostly of Bengali upper castes like Brahmins, Kayastas and Bumihar Brahmans of Bihar, as well as Muslims and obviously European troops. It was originally a Hindu upper caste-Muslim combined revolt but it seems Muslims were playing Hindus all along with a final aim to recreate the Islamic Mughal Empire. Many Maratha princes with some anger towards the Mughals joined in. One among them was Nana Saheb, who attacked a small British outpost/ a residency bungalow full of men, women as well as children. Unable to defeat the Brits within after days of seige, he had this cunning plan. He made a peace plan and promised the British inside with women and children an exit with boats ready. But when the British were about to embark on the boats, he cheated them and attacked them thus breaking the promises he had made to the British earlier. Afterwords, he was responsible for the infamous Bibighar massacre where hundreds of British women and children were massacred. But soon when faced with fresh British troops from Calcutta, his courage lost out and his army was decimated.
    Many Indian princes supported the British because they did not want the more brutal Mughal Empire to be reborn. The fearsome warrior Sikhs especially. Since the Mughals had many of their Kings tortured in the most barbaric way possible.

    https://i0.wp.com/haribhakt.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Bhai_Mati_Das_Killed_by_terrorist_aurangzeb.jpg?resize=450%2C334

    Mughal justice on Sikh gurus/ Kings

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    Many Maratha princes with some anger towards the Mughals joined in
     
    Sorry, Many Maratha princes with some anger towards the British joined in the mutiny.
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  156. Malla says:
    @jilles dykstra
    Benevolent empire.
    Read about the benevolent bloodbath by the British in
    Ian Hernon, 'Britain's Forgotten Wars, Colonial Campaigns of the 19th Century', 2003, 2007, Chalford - Stroud

    Read about the benevolent bloodbath by the British in
    Ian Hernon, ‘Britain’s Forgotten Wars, Colonial Campaigns of the 19th Century’, 2003, 2007, Chalford – Stroud

    Enuf of those cultural Marxist post colonial nonsense.

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  157. Malla says:
    @jilles dykstra
    The Indian people were so greatful for these Acts that there was the Mutiny.
    Ghandi was asked what he thought of western civilisation, his answer 'that would be great'.
    Churchill spoke of Ghandi as 'half naked fakir'.
    Or read
    Jawaharlal Nehru, 'The discovery of India', Calcutta 1948
    The book was written during WWII while Nehru was in jail.

    Jawaharlal Nehru, ‘The discovery of India’,

    I did read it, I was forced to read it. Most Indian nationalists call it propaganda because he hid the brutality done on Hindus by muslims and blamed everything on the British.

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  158. chris m says:

    Ms Mercers article as to the African mindset
    reminds me of Senegalese film Hyènes (1992)

    Hyènes is a 1992 Senegalese comedy film adaptation of Friedrich Dürrenmatt’s Swiss-German satirical play The Visit, directed by Djibril Diop Mambéty.

    Linguere Ramatou, an aging, wealthy woman who revisits her home village of Colobane. Linguere offers a disturbing proposition to the people of Colobane and lavishes luxuries upon them to persuade them. This embittered woman, “as rich as the World Bank”, will bestow upon Colobane a fortune in exchange for the murder of Dramaan Drameh, a local shopkeeper who abandoned her after a love affair and her illegitimate pregnancy when she was 16.

    seems the average African is only too happy with his lot,
    provided the right leader is in place.

    if that fails; he can always emigrate to Europe.

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    • Replies: @Truth

    seems the average African is only too happy with his lot,
    provided the right leader is in place.
     
    Well, you did vote for The Donna. Apparently, so are you.
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  159. Malla says:
    @jilles dykstra
    The Indian people were so greatful for these Acts that there was the Mutiny.
    Ghandi was asked what he thought of western civilisation, his answer 'that would be great'.
    Churchill spoke of Ghandi as 'half naked fakir'.
    Or read
    Jawaharlal Nehru, 'The discovery of India', Calcutta 1948
    The book was written during WWII while Nehru was in jail.

    Guess what check out Jyoti Rao Phule

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jyotirao_Phule

    Jyotirao Govindrao Phule[a] (11 April 1827 – 28 November 1890) was an Indian social activist, a thinker, anti-caste social reformer and writer from Maharashtra.[2][3]

    His work extended to many fields including eradication of untouchability and the caste system, women’s emancipation and the reform of Hindu family life. On September 1873, Phule, along with his followers, formed the Satyashodhak Samaj (Society of Seekers of Truth) to attain equal rights for people from lower castes. Phule is regarded as an important figure of the social reform movement in Maharashtra He and his wife, Savitribai Phule, were pioneers of women’s education in India.

    http://egyankosh.ac.in/bitstream/123456789/20647/1/Unit-12.pdf

    British rule had brought to an end the tyranny and chaos of the regime of the last Peshwa in Maharashtra. The colonial rulers had not only established law and order but also the principle of equality before law. The earlier regime of Brahmin Peshwas had imposed strict limitations on education, occupation arid living standards of the lower castes and women. The new rulers opened the 1 opportunities in education and mobility in occupation for the members of all castes. Missionary schools and government colleges were ready to admit any student irrespective of caste origins. New ideas of equality and liberty could reach the moderately educated sections of the lower caste. Phule was probably the best product of this process. High caste reformers and leaders also had welcomed the colonial rule. It is not surprising that Phule who was concerned with the slavery of the lower castes also favoured British Rule He hoped that the new government which believes in equality between man and man would emancipate lower castes, from the domination of the Brahmins.
    The British rule opened up new employment opportunities in the administration. The political power at local level was also being given to the Indians. Phule who had worked as a member of the Poona Municipality could visualise how lower castes wouid be able to acquire power at local level during the period of British rule and also enter the colonial bureaucracy. He believed in Colonialism, Cast Order and the Tribal Societies the benevolent attitude of the British rulers towards the lower castes and therefore asked for a number of things from them. He was not sure how long the British rule would continue. Therefore, he wanted lower castes to exploit the opportunity and get rid of the tyranny of Brahmins. Brahmin rulers used to collect huge wealth out of taxes levied on poor lower castes population, but never used to spend even a paisa (penny, cent) for their welfare. On the contrary, the new regime was showing the signs of doing good things for the deprived people. Phule assured the colonial rulers that if the Shudras were made happy and contented, they need not worry about the loyalty of the subjects. He wanted the British government to abolish Brahmin Kulkarni’s position, and a post of village headman (Patil) filled on the basis of merit.
    In fact, Phule would have liked the British government to put an end to the balutedary system which was connected with caste specific occupations in the villages. He asked the government to make laws prohibiting customs and practices which gave subordinate status to women and untouchables. Phule wanted Brahmin bureaucracy to be replaced by non-Brahmin bureaucracy. But if the non-Brahmins were not available, the government should appoint, he thought, the British men to these posts. He believed that the British officers would take impartial view and were likely to side with lower castes.
    He knew that education had not yet percolated to the lower castes. The masses had not yet become politically conscious. The high caste elites were claiming that they were the true representatives of the people and therefore weie demanding political rights. This process, Phule thought, would reestablish the political supremacy of the high castes. Phule advised his followers from the lower castes not to participate the-movement for political rights. He argued that
    the Indian National Congress or other political associations were not national in the true sense of the term because they represented only high castes.
    Phule warned his followers against the selfish and cunning motives of the Brahmins in forming these associations and advised them to keep themselves away from such associations. In his Satya Shodhak Samaj, he had made it a rule not to discuss politics. In fact, we find that he had expressed more than once a complete and total loyalty towards the new government. He firmly believed that the almighty God had dethroned the tyrannical rulers and had established in their place a just, enlightened and peaceful British rule for the welfare of the masses.

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  160. Malla says:
    @jilles dykstra
    The Indian people were so greatful for these Acts that there was the Mutiny.
    Ghandi was asked what he thought of western civilisation, his answer 'that would be great'.
    Churchill spoke of Ghandi as 'half naked fakir'.
    Or read
    Jawaharlal Nehru, 'The discovery of India', Calcutta 1948
    The book was written during WWII while Nehru was in jail.

    Though Churchill was scum in his own right (I believe he was no worse than FDR or Stalin), his speech on India is telling.

    https://www.winstonchurchill.org/resources/speeches/1930-1938-the-wilderness/our-duty-in-india/

    If the British people are to lose their Indian Empire, they shall do so with their eyes open, and not be led blindfold into a trap.

    ….snip….

    Gandhi stands for the substitution of Brahmin domination for British rule in India. You will never be able to come to terms with Gandhi.

    ….snip….

    But that is not all. To abandon India to the rule of the Brahmins would be an act of cruel and wicked negligence. It would shame for ever those who bore its guilt. These Brahmins who mouth and patter the principles of Western Liberalism, and pose as philosophic and democratic politicians, are the same Brahmins who deny the primary rights of existence to nearly sixty millions of their own fellow countrymen whom they call ‘untouchable’, and whom they have by thousands of years of oppression actually taught to accept this sad position. They will not eat with these sixty millions, nor drink with them, nor treat them as human beings. They consider themselves contaminated even by their approach. And then in a moment they turn round and begin chopping logic with John Stuart Mill, or pleading the rights of man with Jean Jacques Rousseau.

    …..snip…..

    Let me just direct your attention once more upon these untouchables, fifty or sixty millions of them, that is to say more than the whole population of the British Isles; all living their lives in acceptance of the validity of the awful curse pronounced upon them by the Brahmins. A multitude as big as a nation, men, women and children deprived of hope and of the status of humanity. Their plight is worse than that of slaves, because they have been taught to consent not only to a physical but to a psychic servitude and prostration.

    ……snip…..

    There is a more squalid aspect. Hitherto for generations it has been the British policy that no white official should have any interest or profit other than his salary and pension out of Indian administration. All concession-hunters and European adventurers, company-promoters and profit-seekers have been rigorously barred and banned. But now that there is spread through India the belief that we are a broken, bankrupt, played-out power, and that our rule is going to pass away and be transferred in the name of the majority to the Brahmin sect, all sorts of greedy appetites have been excited, and many itching fingers are stretching and scratching at the vast pillage of a derelict Empire. I read in the Times newspaper, in the Times mind you, only last week of the crowd of rich Bombay merchants and millionaire millowners, millionaires on sweated labour, who surround Mr. Gandhi, the saint, the lawyer, Lord Irwin’s dear colleague and companion. What are they doing there, these men, and what is he doing in their houses?

    They are making arrangements that the greatest bluff, the greatest humbug and the greatest betrayal shall be followed by the greatest ramp. Nepotism, back-scratching, graft and corruption in every form will be the handmaidens of a Brahmin domination.

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  161. Malla says:
    @Malla

    The Indian people were so grateful for these Acts that there was the Mutiny.
     
    The mutiny was done by the Bengal Army of the East India Company. The Madras Army and Bombay army did not take part in the mutiny. The mutiny was basically an attempt by Muslims in the Bengal army of the East India Company to recreate the Islamic Mughal empire since the Hindu Maratha Empire was conquered by the British Empire and was no more, the Maratha cavalry played a big role in decimating the Mughals earlier. The Mutiny also included many Maratha princes who had some axes to grind with the British.
    Though initially the mutiny included both Hindus and Muslims, very soon , the Muslims showed their true intentions (recreating Mughal Empire), some attacked Hindu temples and very soon many Hindus were praying for a British victory.
    The mutiny was mostly a religious anti-Christian mutiny than an anti British mutiny. Thus Europeans who had converted to Islam or a tiny few who were living like Hindus were not attacked but Indians who had converted to Protestant Christianity like the Indian doctor Chaman Lal was killed. The whole mutiny was the work of Islamic mullahs and maybe some Hindu holymen took part and the mysterious ancient networks which run throughout India took part in the conspiracy. The British were taken by surprise. But by fierce valour and resistance, the British finally won. Those same mysterious networks of fakirs and holy men played a role in spreading a fake rumour that the British purposely put cow and pig fat in the newly issued weaponry issued to the sepoys. That rumour triggered the mutiny.
    The Mughal emperor of India Bahadur Shah Zaffar was not interested in the mutiny but was used as a figure head. He was nearly under house arrest by the mutiny thugs.
    The fear of the Mughals coming back to power led to the Sikhs, Gurkhas and many others to support the British East India Company. Remember, the Bombay Army and Madras Army of the East India Company more or less refused to mutiny. These two armies were caste mixed.
    The Bengal Army was composed mostly of Bengali upper castes like Brahmins, Kayastas and Bumihar Brahmans of Bihar, as well as Muslims and obviously European troops. It was originally a Hindu upper caste-Muslim combined revolt but it seems Muslims were playing Hindus all along with a final aim to recreate the Islamic Mughal Empire. Many Maratha princes with some anger towards the Mughals joined in. One among them was Nana Saheb, who attacked a small British outpost/ a residency bungalow full of men, women as well as children. Unable to defeat the Brits within after days of seige, he had this cunning plan. He made a peace plan and promised the British inside with women and children an exit with boats ready. But when the British were about to embark on the boats, he cheated them and attacked them thus breaking the promises he had made to the British earlier. Afterwords, he was responsible for the infamous Bibighar massacre where hundreds of British women and children were massacred. But soon when faced with fresh British troops from Calcutta, his courage lost out and his army was decimated.
    Many Indian princes supported the British because they did not want the more brutal Mughal Empire to be reborn. The fearsome warrior Sikhs especially. Since the Mughals had many of their Kings tortured in the most barbaric way possible.

    https://i0.wp.com/haribhakt.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Bhai_Mati_Das_Killed_by_terrorist_aurangzeb.jpg?resize=450%2C334

    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-QmiR0-DTsHg/VevkUpbQ_CI/AAAAAAAAAEo/ZIN8i8HmhYg/s1600/15%2B-%2B1.jpg

    Mughal justice on Sikh gurus/ Kings

    Many Maratha princes with some anger towards the Mughals joined in

    Sorry, Many Maratha princes with some anger towards the British joined in the mutiny.

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  162. Malla says:
    @jilles dykstra
    If European farmers are not subsidized most of Europe would become wood.
    And Europe would be completely dependent on imported food.
    I'm curious if you know a solution.

    If European farmers are not subsidized most of Europe would become wood.
    And Europe would be completely dependent on imported food.
    I’m curious if you know a solution.

    Well I said subsidies are needed. But there are other solutions.
    The solution should start with destroying the Supermarket oligarchies and getting the traditional mom and pop, greengrocers, butchers etc… back. Thus farmers will have more choice in selling their produce.
    Giving easy loans, tax breaks to European farmers, using ways to make farming a viable occupation by the native youth etc…

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  163. Ben Frank says:

    Expect chaos until southern Africa become strategically worth conquering again.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Malla
    In my opinion, it is best for the Whites to get out. Some form of organisation and funds must be created to help poorer White South Africans to get out.
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  164. Malla says:
    @Third world nationalist
    There is no way the Rhodesians could have won in the long run. The white population was called up for military service and the economy has grinding to a halt because people were being diverted away from the economy. The African guerilla tactics were working well. Whites were also leaving in the country due to the war. The Africans on the other hand had no option to leave the country so they stayed and fought.

    You raise some good points but the terrorists/ freedom fighters were hapless infront of the Rhodesian Army who had both Whites as well as blacks in them. Remember Rhodesia did not have an Apartheid like policy like South Africa. All they ZANUs were doing were terrorist tactics.

    It cannot be denied that the British and the American Henry Kissinger played the biggest role in the destruction of Rhodesia.
    One of best books ever written on Rhodesia is

    https://archive.org/details/TheBattleForRhodesia

    From that book by Douglas Reed, I have linked above

    Here were two minds with a single thought, the one in Moscow the other in Washington. Without
    being grossly cynical, I reasoned that Mr. Browder’s heart beat for the world revolution, not for the
    African peoples. Here, it seemed, was the original blueprint of the Point Four blueprint for Africa,
    and someone must have sold it as an original to somebody in Washington, as dealers have
    occasionally been known to pass off a bogus painting as a genuine Old Master.

    The above explains everything.

    Also check out in the book how international media fooled the world about Rhodesia just like they would about South Africa much later.

    “World News”: a telephone call to Salisbury would have shown its falsity. In fact, reports from Dar
    es Salaam or Zambia about Rhodesia should never be published or broadcast without verification.
    (In this case the B.B.C. next day gave out a casual “disclaimer”: disclaimers never correct the
    original impression made on the mass mind).
    Two instances (of many reported to me) have been verified by me, of “persuasion” by television.
    The Rhodesian managing director of a big international concern, happening to dine with an M.P. in
    Belfast, saw on television pictures of a large building burning “during current riots in one of the
    main cities of Rhodesia” and thought of returning at once: he said to his wife, “Things must be
    getting bad.” Then the smoke cleared; he saw through it the name “Meikles”, and realised that the
    picture was of the burning of Meikle’s department store in Bulawayo many years before.
    The daughter of the Rhodesian Minister for Law and Order, Mr. Lardner-Burke, was similarly
    alarmed when, in Britain, she saw pictures of “rioting in Rhodesia”. Then a friend said, “What are
    those camels?” Rhodesia has no camels and these were pictures of rioting in the Sudan.

    There is no way the Rhodesians could have won in the long run.

    Militarily they could have but demographically no. White man’s medicine was responsible for a population boost among blacks.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Okechukwu

    Militarily they could have but demographically no.
     
    And the difference is?

    You do realize that towards the end of the war 85% of Rhodesia were no-go areas for the Rhodesian military. If that's winning I'd never want you in charge of any military operations.

    The Lancaster House accord that ended the war was a face saving device intended to save the whites from an even more humiliating defeat. The Rhodesians themselves admitted they were losing. Increasingly, the black guerrillas even had superior equipment and they were inflicting heavy casualties on the Rhodesians. The blacks had plans to increase targeting of white civilians, which would have opened the floodgates of fleeing whites. Mugabe didn't want a negotiated settlement because he knew he was on the cusp of a complete military victory. I wish the war had been allowed to reach its proper conclusion. That way we'd avoid all these delusional revisionist scenarios of how Rhodesia only lost due to being stabbed in the back by the West.

    White man’s medicine was responsible for a population boost among blacks.
     
    Nope. They got along fine for thousands of years without white man's medicine. White man's medicine (and lifestyle) probably kills more than it saves.
    , @Malla
    More on the lies of the BBC used in propaganda against Rhodesia

    In his book Banana Sunday, Chris Munnion—who covered Africa for the London Daily Telegraph for 20 years—tells a mildly amusing story about the lengths to which the BBC went. He relates events immediately after Ian Smith’s Unilateral Declaration of Independence when Ronald Robson, the BBC’s resident correspondent in Salisbury, looking for “action” that was not there, took a film crew to Cecil Square where many black office workers were dozing during their lunch break. While the cameras rolled he gravely announced, “There has been another revolution in Africa,” with the implication that the prone bodies were dead people victimized by some white-orchestrated horror.

    BBC personnel were simultaneously dispatched to broadcast from stations in Zambia and Botswana urging the overthrow of white rule. So much for the corporation’s commitment to impartiality!

    Also voluble was the late Christopher Hitchens, who wrote of the “white supremacist junta” in power in Salisbury and called stridently for British military intervention to remove Smith’s government. In a case of “too late, he cried,” Hitchens later made it known that one of his life’s regrets was remaining silent about Robert Mugabe despite the fact he knew “he had a terrible capacity for fanaticism and absolutism.”
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  165. Malla says:
    @jilles dykstra
    The Indian people were so greatful for these Acts that there was the Mutiny.
    Ghandi was asked what he thought of western civilisation, his answer 'that would be great'.
    Churchill spoke of Ghandi as 'half naked fakir'.
    Or read
    Jawaharlal Nehru, 'The discovery of India', Calcutta 1948
    The book was written during WWII while Nehru was in jail.

    Trust me on this, if there is any book you need to read about India during the last days of the empire, it is this.

    http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks03/0300811h.html

    This is by an American woman, not British, who was there, who saw everything.

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  166. Okechukwu says:
    @Malla
    You raise some good points but the terrorists/ freedom fighters were hapless infront of the Rhodesian Army who had both Whites as well as blacks in them. Remember Rhodesia did not have an Apartheid like policy like South Africa. All they ZANUs were doing were terrorist tactics.

    It cannot be denied that the British and the American Henry Kissinger played the biggest role in the destruction of Rhodesia.
    One of best books ever written on Rhodesia is

    https://archive.org/details/TheBattleForRhodesia

    From that book by Douglas Reed, I have linked above

    Here were two minds with a single thought, the one in Moscow the other in Washington. Without
    being grossly cynical, I reasoned that Mr. Browder's heart beat for the world revolution, not for the
    African peoples. Here, it seemed, was the original blueprint of the Point Four blueprint for Africa,
    and someone must have sold it as an original to somebody in Washington, as dealers have
    occasionally been known to pass off a bogus painting as a genuine Old Master.

    The above explains everything.

    Also check out in the book how international media fooled the world about Rhodesia just like they would about South Africa much later.

    "World News": a telephone call to Salisbury would have shown its falsity. In fact, reports from Dar
    es Salaam or Zambia about Rhodesia should never be published or broadcast without verification.
    (In this case the B.B.C. next day gave out a casual "disclaimer": disclaimers never correct the
    original impression made on the mass mind).
    Two instances (of many reported to me) have been verified by me, of "persuasion" by television.
    The Rhodesian managing director of a big international concern, happening to dine with an M.P. in
    Belfast, saw on television pictures of a large building burning "during current riots in one of the
    main cities of Rhodesia" and thought of returning at once: he said to his wife, "Things must be
    getting bad." Then the smoke cleared; he saw through it the name "Meikles", and realised that the
    picture was of the burning of Meikle's department store in Bulawayo many years before.
    The daughter of the Rhodesian Minister for Law and Order, Mr. Lardner-Burke, was similarly
    alarmed when, in Britain, she saw pictures of "rioting in Rhodesia". Then a friend said, "What are
    those camels?" Rhodesia has no camels and these were pictures of rioting in the Sudan.


    There is no way the Rhodesians could have won in the long run.
     
    Militarily they could have but demographically no. White man's medicine was responsible for a population boost among blacks.

    Militarily they could have but demographically no.

    And the difference is?

    You do realize that towards the end of the war 85% of Rhodesia were no-go areas for the Rhodesian military. If that’s winning I’d never want you in charge of any military operations.

    The Lancaster House accord that ended the war was a face saving device intended to save the whites from an even more humiliating defeat. The Rhodesians themselves admitted they were losing. Increasingly, the black guerrillas even had superior equipment and they were inflicting heavy casualties on the Rhodesians. The blacks had plans to increase targeting of white civilians, which would have opened the floodgates of fleeing whites. Mugabe didn’t want a negotiated settlement because he knew he was on the cusp of a complete military victory. I wish the war had been allowed to reach its proper conclusion. That way we’d avoid all these delusional revisionist scenarios of how Rhodesia only lost due to being stabbed in the back by the West.

    White man’s medicine was responsible for a population boost among blacks.

    Nope. They got along fine for thousands of years without white man’s medicine. White man’s medicine (and lifestyle) probably kills more than it saves.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Malla
    Of course Rhodesia was stabbed in the back. Why did Britain put sanctions on Rhodesia in the first place?

    http://www.joydigitalmag.com/news/remember-rhodesia-pray-zimbabwe/

    Never Beaten – Betrayed
    As the Prime Minister of Rhodesia, Mr. Ian Smith, declared: “We were never beaten by our enemies, we were betrayed by our friends.”

    Loyal
    In the First and the Second World Wars, and in the Malayan Conflict, Rhodesia had provided more men, percentage to their population, than any other part of the British Empire and Commonwealth to fight for the West.

    Stabbed in the Back
    However, when Rhodesia was targeted by Soviet and Red Chinese trained and supported revolutionaries, their British, Canadian, Australian and American allies not only placed economic sanctions on Rhodesia, but even channelled funds towards the very terrorists who were murdering their people.
    Blood on their Hands
    It is often forgotten that Robert Mugabe’s ZANU-PF revolutionaries received United Nations (UN) funding, despite its terrorist record of murdering missionaries, bayonneting babies, burning to death congregations of Christians in their church buildings, ambushing Red Cross ambulances, exploding bombs in public streets, placing landmines in farm roads, and the cold-blooded murder of thousands of unarmed civilians. In fact, the World Council of Churches (WCC) also channelled church funds to these Marxists who were murdering missionaries and burning churches.


    Also from here.

    http://thecasualobserver.co.za/rhodesia-the-great-betrayal/

    They called Ian Smith back later the same afternoon and explained that the Americans knew of every sanction busting operation in the world and literally how much petrol, down to the last thousand litres that the Rhodesian armed forces had. Henry Kissinger explained to Smithy that the game was up and the Americans would close down every sanction busting operation there was and would ensure that South Africa supplied no more fuel to us. Kissinger then asked Ian Smith for his decision. Smithy explained that this was impossible as it would have to be a cabinet decision. They phoned through to Salisbury before they flew home and had the entire cabinet stand by for an emergency meeting when they arrived back.

    It were Kissinger's threats of sanctions and Apartheid South Africa not providing fuel and weapons
    (because of American/British pressure) which destroyed Rhodesia. Of course Kissinger did not do this because he loved black Rhodesians. It was part of a bigger global game plan.


    They got along fine for thousands of years without white man’s medicine. White man’s medicine (and lifestyle) probably kills more than it saves.
     
    Yes blacks lived for thousands of years without White medicine. Tribal medicine can be more effective than Modern medicine in SOME or MANY cases but not ALL. But with the coming of White man's medicine, populations in Africa and Asia increased a lot. Basically, more children were surviving than before.
    As far as "White" lifestyle and medicine being bad is a more recent phenomenon.
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  167. dfordoom says: • Website
    @jilles dykstra
    The complete disappearance of the Tasmania Aboriginals is also a myth ?
    William Pember Reeves, 'The Long White Cloud, AO TEA ROA', 1898, 1924, 1998, Middlesex
    F E Maning, 'Old New Zealand', 1887, 1980, Auckland
    Marcus Clarke, 'For the Term of his Natural Life', 1874, 1970, London
    Robert Hughes, 'De fatale kust, Het epos van Australië', 1988, Amsterdam (The fatal shore, The epic of Australia's founding, 1986, New York)
    These books suffice, with the earlier mentioned autobiography, how the British behaved there.
    Alas they treated the criminals deported for minor offences not much better.
    One of my children recently visited Australia.
    Laws stating that Aboriginals are not human just were abolished a few years ago.
    The interesting thing about books is that once published, you cannot change them, destroying all of them also is impossible.

    The complete disappearance of the Tasmania Aboriginals is also a myth ?

    The idea of deliberate genocide is certainly a myth.

    But then one of your relatives visited Australia once so you clearly know far more about Australia than I do. I’ve only lived here for my entire life.

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  168. dfordoom says: • Website
    @jilles dykstra
    The Indian people were so greatful for these Acts that there was the Mutiny.
    Ghandi was asked what he thought of western civilisation, his answer 'that would be great'.
    Churchill spoke of Ghandi as 'half naked fakir'.
    Or read
    Jawaharlal Nehru, 'The discovery of India', Calcutta 1948
    The book was written during WWII while Nehru was in jail.

    Ghandi was asked what he thought of western civilisation, his answer ‘that would be great’.

    A great quote, but almost certainly apocryphal.

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  169. J.Ross says: • Website
    @B Sampson
    a lunatic article and lunatic commentary..nothing but blind prejudice from start to finish.

    this here is so incredibly stupid that it shocks and forces a response. and the UNZ review gets away with stuff like this...or is this its forte', its reason for being?

    Don’t worry, soon this sort of thing will be illegal, and the only discussion of African governments will be chanting that all white people should die.

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  170. Malla says:
    @Okechukwu

    Militarily they could have but demographically no.
     
    And the difference is?

    You do realize that towards the end of the war 85% of Rhodesia were no-go areas for the Rhodesian military. If that's winning I'd never want you in charge of any military operations.

    The Lancaster House accord that ended the war was a face saving device intended to save the whites from an even more humiliating defeat. The Rhodesians themselves admitted they were losing. Increasingly, the black guerrillas even had superior equipment and they were inflicting heavy casualties on the Rhodesians. The blacks had plans to increase targeting of white civilians, which would have opened the floodgates of fleeing whites. Mugabe didn't want a negotiated settlement because he knew he was on the cusp of a complete military victory. I wish the war had been allowed to reach its proper conclusion. That way we'd avoid all these delusional revisionist scenarios of how Rhodesia only lost due to being stabbed in the back by the West.

    White man’s medicine was responsible for a population boost among blacks.
     
    Nope. They got along fine for thousands of years without white man's medicine. White man's medicine (and lifestyle) probably kills more than it saves.

    Of course Rhodesia was stabbed in the back. Why did Britain put sanctions on Rhodesia in the first place?

    http://www.joydigitalmag.com/news/remember-rhodesia-pray-zimbabwe/

    Never Beaten – Betrayed
    As the Prime Minister of Rhodesia, Mr. Ian Smith, declared: “We were never beaten by our enemies, we were betrayed by our friends.”

    Loyal
    In the First and the Second World Wars, and in the Malayan Conflict, Rhodesia had provided more men, percentage to their population, than any other part of the British Empire and Commonwealth to fight for the West.

    Stabbed in the Back
    However, when Rhodesia was targeted by Soviet and Red Chinese trained and supported revolutionaries, their British, Canadian, Australian and American allies not only placed economic sanctions on Rhodesia, but even channelled funds towards the very terrorists who were murdering their people.
    Blood on their Hands
    It is often forgotten that Robert Mugabe’s ZANU-PF revolutionaries received United Nations (UN) funding, despite its terrorist record of murdering missionaries, bayonneting babies, burning to death congregations of Christians in their church buildings, ambushing Red Cross ambulances, exploding bombs in public streets, placing landmines in farm roads, and the cold-blooded murder of thousands of unarmed civilians. In fact, the World Council of Churches (WCC) also channelled church funds to these Marxists who were murdering missionaries and burning churches.

    Also from here.

    http://thecasualobserver.co.za/rhodesia-the-great-betrayal/

    They called Ian Smith back later the same afternoon and explained that the Americans knew of every sanction busting operation in the world and literally how much petrol, down to the last thousand litres that the Rhodesian armed forces had. Henry Kissinger explained to Smithy that the game was up and the Americans would close down every sanction busting operation there was and would ensure that South Africa supplied no more fuel to us. Kissinger then asked Ian Smith for his decision. Smithy explained that this was impossible as it would have to be a cabinet decision. They phoned through to Salisbury before they flew home and had the entire cabinet stand by for an emergency meeting when they arrived back.

    It were Kissinger’s threats of sanctions and Apartheid South Africa not providing fuel and weapons
    (because of American/British pressure) which destroyed Rhodesia. Of course Kissinger did not do this because he loved black Rhodesians. It was part of a bigger global game plan.

    They got along fine for thousands of years without white man’s medicine. White man’s medicine (and lifestyle) probably kills more than it saves.

    Yes blacks lived for thousands of years without White medicine. Tribal medicine can be more effective than Modern medicine in SOME or MANY cases but not ALL. But with the coming of White man’s medicine, populations in Africa and Asia increased a lot. Basically, more children were surviving than before.
    As far as “White” lifestyle and medicine being bad is a more recent phenomenon.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Okechukwu

    Of course Rhodesia was stabbed in the back. Why did Britain put sanctions on Rhodesia in the first place?
     
    Duh...it was their prerogative, acting in their own national interest. The blacks too were effectively sanctioned in as much as they weren't getting any aid from South Africa, Portugal or the West while Rhodesia was getting such aid.

    Never Beaten – Betrayed
    As the Prime Minister of Rhodesia, Mr. Ian Smith, declared: “We were never beaten by our enemies, we were betrayed by our friends.”
     
    Great! Let's take Ian Smith's word as gospel. Are you drunk?

    However, when Rhodesia was targeted by Soviet and Red Chinese trained and supported revolutionaries, their British, Canadian, Australian and American allies not only placed economic sanctions on Rhodesia, but even channelled funds towards the very terrorists who were murdering their people.
     
    That's nothing compared to the aid Rhodesia received from South Africa.

    They called Ian Smith back later the same afternoon and explained that the Americans knew of every sanction busting operation in the world and literally how much petrol, down to the last thousand litres that the Rhodesian armed forces had. Henry Kissinger blah blah blah.
     
    So? It was in the United States interest to not be seen to be on the side of a racist, murderous apartheid police state. The United States didn't support the black freedom fighters either. So that's a wash. Why did Rhodesia need the US and Britain to prop them up? They were well armed and had access to the full military and intelligence resources of South Africa. They even received help from Israel.

    Yes blacks lived for thousands of years without White medicine. Tribal medicine can be more effective than Modern medicine in SOME or MANY cases but not ALL. But with the coming of White man’s medicine, populations in Africa and Asia increased a lot. Basically, more children were surviving than before.
     
    It's not a foregone conclusion that "white medicine" led to population increases. How many black Rhodesians had access to western medicine anyway?
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  171. Malla says:
    @Malla
    You raise some good points but the terrorists/ freedom fighters were hapless infront of the Rhodesian Army who had both Whites as well as blacks in them. Remember Rhodesia did not have an Apartheid like policy like South Africa. All they ZANUs were doing were terrorist tactics.

    It cannot be denied that the British and the American Henry Kissinger played the biggest role in the destruction of Rhodesia.
    One of best books ever written on Rhodesia is

    https://archive.org/details/TheBattleForRhodesia

    From that book by Douglas Reed, I have linked above

    Here were two minds with a single thought, the one in Moscow the other in Washington. Without
    being grossly cynical, I reasoned that Mr. Browder's heart beat for the world revolution, not for the
    African peoples. Here, it seemed, was the original blueprint of the Point Four blueprint for Africa,
    and someone must have sold it as an original to somebody in Washington, as dealers have
    occasionally been known to pass off a bogus painting as a genuine Old Master.

    The above explains everything.

    Also check out in the book how international media fooled the world about Rhodesia just like they would about South Africa much later.

    "World News": a telephone call to Salisbury would have shown its falsity. In fact, reports from Dar
    es Salaam or Zambia about Rhodesia should never be published or broadcast without verification.
    (In this case the B.B.C. next day gave out a casual "disclaimer": disclaimers never correct the
    original impression made on the mass mind).
    Two instances (of many reported to me) have been verified by me, of "persuasion" by television.
    The Rhodesian managing director of a big international concern, happening to dine with an M.P. in
    Belfast, saw on television pictures of a large building burning "during current riots in one of the
    main cities of Rhodesia" and thought of returning at once: he said to his wife, "Things must be
    getting bad." Then the smoke cleared; he saw through it the name "Meikles", and realised that the
    picture was of the burning of Meikle's department store in Bulawayo many years before.
    The daughter of the Rhodesian Minister for Law and Order, Mr. Lardner-Burke, was similarly
    alarmed when, in Britain, she saw pictures of "rioting in Rhodesia". Then a friend said, "What are
    those camels?" Rhodesia has no camels and these were pictures of rioting in the Sudan.


    There is no way the Rhodesians could have won in the long run.
     
    Militarily they could have but demographically no. White man's medicine was responsible for a population boost among blacks.

    More on the lies of the BBC used in propaganda against Rhodesia

    In his book Banana Sunday, Chris Munnion—who covered Africa for the London Daily Telegraph for 20 years—tells a mildly amusing story about the lengths to which the BBC went. He relates events immediately after Ian Smith’s Unilateral Declaration of Independence when Ronald Robson, the BBC’s resident correspondent in Salisbury, looking for “action” that was not there, took a film crew to Cecil Square where many black office workers were dozing during their lunch break. While the cameras rolled he gravely announced, “There has been another revolution in Africa,” with the implication that the prone bodies were dead people victimized by some white-orchestrated horror.

    BBC personnel were simultaneously dispatched to broadcast from stations in Zambia and Botswana urging the overthrow of white rule. So much for the corporation’s commitment to impartiality!

    Also voluble was the late Christopher Hitchens, who wrote of the “white supremacist junta” in power in Salisbury and called stridently for British military intervention to remove Smith’s government. In a case of “too late, he cried,” Hitchens later made it known that one of his life’s regrets was remaining silent about Robert Mugabe despite the fact he knew “he had a terrible capacity for fanaticism and absolutism.”

    Read More
    • Replies: @Third world nationalist
    The BBC are right to go against white rule in Rhodesia. If you accept white minority rule over blacks in Rhodesia, why not accept jewish minority rule over whites ? After all the Jews are smarter. Its either you believe in minorty rule or nationalism for everyone.

    The majority of white migrants to Rhodesia were fairly recent post 1900 arrivals. They cannot claim native status unlike the Boers of south Africa who have been there for at least a few hundred years.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Zimbabwe#Historical_data_of_Southern_Rhodesia

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  172. Malla says:
    @Ben Frank
    Expect chaos until southern Africa become strategically worth conquering again.

    In my opinion, it is best for the Whites to get out. Some form of organisation and funds must be created to help poorer White South Africans to get out.

    Read More
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  173. @Malla
    More on the lies of the BBC used in propaganda against Rhodesia

    In his book Banana Sunday, Chris Munnion—who covered Africa for the London Daily Telegraph for 20 years—tells a mildly amusing story about the lengths to which the BBC went. He relates events immediately after Ian Smith’s Unilateral Declaration of Independence when Ronald Robson, the BBC’s resident correspondent in Salisbury, looking for “action” that was not there, took a film crew to Cecil Square where many black office workers were dozing during their lunch break. While the cameras rolled he gravely announced, “There has been another revolution in Africa,” with the implication that the prone bodies were dead people victimized by some white-orchestrated horror.

    BBC personnel were simultaneously dispatched to broadcast from stations in Zambia and Botswana urging the overthrow of white rule. So much for the corporation’s commitment to impartiality!

    Also voluble was the late Christopher Hitchens, who wrote of the “white supremacist junta” in power in Salisbury and called stridently for British military intervention to remove Smith’s government. In a case of “too late, he cried,” Hitchens later made it known that one of his life’s regrets was remaining silent about Robert Mugabe despite the fact he knew “he had a terrible capacity for fanaticism and absolutism.”

    The BBC are right to go against white rule in Rhodesia. If you accept white minority rule over blacks in Rhodesia, why not accept jewish minority rule over whites ? After all the Jews are smarter. Its either you believe in minorty rule or nationalism for everyone.

    The majority of white migrants to Rhodesia were fairly recent post 1900 arrivals. They cannot claim native status unlike the Boers of south Africa who have been there for at least a few hundred years.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Zimbabwe#Historical_data_of_Southern_Rhodesia

    Read More
    • Replies: @Malla
    The BBC is the propaganda arm of the elites. it did not do this for the love of black people. There are other big geopolitical conspiratorial things in sight. Read that book I linked to. The guys who destroyed Rhodesia did not do it for the love of blacks or for justice. Rhodesia had to be destroyed for other reasons.

    If you accept white minority rule over blacks in Rhodesia, why not accept jewish minority rule over whites ?
     
    And the BBC does not talk about the Jewish minority rule, does it? That is the point. The question to the BBC should be if you cannot accept White minority rule over blacks, how can you accept Jewish minority rule over all goyim.
    , @Malla
    And the BBC used falsehoods to rile up the world. How is that good?

    took a film crew to Cecil Square where many black office workers were dozing during their lunch break. While the cameras rolled he gravely announced, “There has been another revolution in Africa,” with the implication that the prone bodies were dead people victimized by some white-orchestrated horror.
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  174. Malla says:
    @jilles dykstra
    An afterthought.
    We at present may well be destroying western culture through immigration, in one or two thousand years, will anyone understand ?

    And who is to say, the same thing which is happening now in the West, did not happen with ancient Rome or ancient Persia. The same chosen tribe were running around then, as they are now.

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  175. Truth says:
    @chris m
    Ms Mercers article as to the African mindset
    reminds me of Senegalese film Hyènes (1992)

    Hyènes is a 1992 Senegalese comedy film adaptation of Friedrich Dürrenmatt's Swiss-German satirical play The Visit, directed by Djibril Diop Mambéty.

    Linguere Ramatou, an aging, wealthy woman who revisits her home village of Colobane. Linguere offers a disturbing proposition to the people of Colobane and lavishes luxuries upon them to persuade them. This embittered woman, "as rich as the World Bank", will bestow upon Colobane a fortune in exchange for the murder of Dramaan Drameh, a local shopkeeper who abandoned her after a love affair and her illegitimate pregnancy when she was 16.


    seems the average African is only too happy with his lot,
    provided the right leader is in place.

    if that fails; he can always emigrate to Europe.

    seems the average African is only too happy with his lot,
    provided the right leader is in place.

    Well, you did vote for The Donna. Apparently, so are you.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Malla
    Only the Donna? It is a long line which includes Clinton the pizza delivery at your gate man, Bushy, Obamba.
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  176. Malla says:
    @Truth

    seems the average African is only too happy with his lot,
    provided the right leader is in place.
     
    Well, you did vote for The Donna. Apparently, so are you.

    Only the Donna? It is a long line which includes Clinton the pizza delivery at your gate man, Bushy, Obamba.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Truth
    Well of course, My good man, but The Donna was going to Put Hillary in Jail and Build the Wall and Clean up the Swamp!
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  177. Malla says:
    @Third world nationalist
    The BBC are right to go against white rule in Rhodesia. If you accept white minority rule over blacks in Rhodesia, why not accept jewish minority rule over whites ? After all the Jews are smarter. Its either you believe in minorty rule or nationalism for everyone.

    The majority of white migrants to Rhodesia were fairly recent post 1900 arrivals. They cannot claim native status unlike the Boers of south Africa who have been there for at least a few hundred years.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Zimbabwe#Historical_data_of_Southern_Rhodesia

    The BBC is the propaganda arm of the elites. it did not do this for the love of black people. There are other big geopolitical conspiratorial things in sight. Read that book I linked to. The guys who destroyed Rhodesia did not do it for the love of blacks or for justice. Rhodesia had to be destroyed for other reasons.

    If you accept white minority rule over blacks in Rhodesia, why not accept jewish minority rule over whites ?

    And the BBC does not talk about the Jewish minority rule, does it? That is the point. The question to the BBC should be if you cannot accept White minority rule over blacks, how can you accept Jewish minority rule over all goyim.

    Read More
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  178. Malla says:
    @Third world nationalist
    The BBC are right to go against white rule in Rhodesia. If you accept white minority rule over blacks in Rhodesia, why not accept jewish minority rule over whites ? After all the Jews are smarter. Its either you believe in minorty rule or nationalism for everyone.

    The majority of white migrants to Rhodesia were fairly recent post 1900 arrivals. They cannot claim native status unlike the Boers of south Africa who have been there for at least a few hundred years.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Zimbabwe#Historical_data_of_Southern_Rhodesia

    And the BBC used falsehoods to rile up the world. How is that good?

    took a film crew to Cecil Square where many black office workers were dozing during their lunch break. While the cameras rolled he gravely announced, “There has been another revolution in Africa,” with the implication that the prone bodies were dead people victimized by some white-orchestrated horror.

    Read More
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  179. Truth says:
    @Malla
    Only the Donna? It is a long line which includes Clinton the pizza delivery at your gate man, Bushy, Obamba.

    Well of course, My good man, but The Donna was going to Put Hillary in Jail and Build the Wall and Clean up the Swamp!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Malla
    What can I say Truth, what is a politician who does not break his promise. Obama had promised to close down Guantanamo Bay. It is still running. America's secret naval base on CUBAN territory, on enemy territory. Strange world this.
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  180. Okechukwu says:
    @Malla
    Of course Rhodesia was stabbed in the back. Why did Britain put sanctions on Rhodesia in the first place?

    http://www.joydigitalmag.com/news/remember-rhodesia-pray-zimbabwe/

    Never Beaten – Betrayed
    As the Prime Minister of Rhodesia, Mr. Ian Smith, declared: “We were never beaten by our enemies, we were betrayed by our friends.”

    Loyal
    In the First and the Second World Wars, and in the Malayan Conflict, Rhodesia had provided more men, percentage to their population, than any other part of the British Empire and Commonwealth to fight for the West.

    Stabbed in the Back
    However, when Rhodesia was targeted by Soviet and Red Chinese trained and supported revolutionaries, their British, Canadian, Australian and American allies not only placed economic sanctions on Rhodesia, but even channelled funds towards the very terrorists who were murdering their people.
    Blood on their Hands
    It is often forgotten that Robert Mugabe’s ZANU-PF revolutionaries received United Nations (UN) funding, despite its terrorist record of murdering missionaries, bayonneting babies, burning to death congregations of Christians in their church buildings, ambushing Red Cross ambulances, exploding bombs in public streets, placing landmines in farm roads, and the cold-blooded murder of thousands of unarmed civilians. In fact, the World Council of Churches (WCC) also channelled church funds to these Marxists who were murdering missionaries and burning churches.


    Also from here.

    http://thecasualobserver.co.za/rhodesia-the-great-betrayal/

    They called Ian Smith back later the same afternoon and explained that the Americans knew of every sanction busting operation in the world and literally how much petrol, down to the last thousand litres that the Rhodesian armed forces had. Henry Kissinger explained to Smithy that the game was up and the Americans would close down every sanction busting operation there was and would ensure that South Africa supplied no more fuel to us. Kissinger then asked Ian Smith for his decision. Smithy explained that this was impossible as it would have to be a cabinet decision. They phoned through to Salisbury before they flew home and had the entire cabinet stand by for an emergency meeting when they arrived back.

    It were Kissinger's threats of sanctions and Apartheid South Africa not providing fuel and weapons
    (because of American/British pressure) which destroyed Rhodesia. Of course Kissinger did not do this because he loved black Rhodesians. It was part of a bigger global game plan.


    They got along fine for thousands of years without white man’s medicine. White man’s medicine (and lifestyle) probably kills more than it saves.
     
    Yes blacks lived for thousands of years without White medicine. Tribal medicine can be more effective than Modern medicine in SOME or MANY cases but not ALL. But with the coming of White man's medicine, populations in Africa and Asia increased a lot. Basically, more children were surviving than before.
    As far as "White" lifestyle and medicine being bad is a more recent phenomenon.

    Of course Rhodesia was stabbed in the back. Why did Britain put sanctions on Rhodesia in the first place?

    Duh…it was their prerogative, acting in their own national interest. The blacks too were effectively sanctioned in as much as they weren’t getting any aid from South Africa, Portugal or the West while Rhodesia was getting such aid.

    Never Beaten – Betrayed
    As the Prime Minister of Rhodesia, Mr. Ian Smith, declared: “We were never beaten by our enemies, we were betrayed by our friends.”

    Great! Let’s take Ian Smith’s word as gospel. Are you drunk?

    However, when Rhodesia was targeted by Soviet and Red Chinese trained and supported revolutionaries, their British, Canadian, Australian and American allies not only placed economic sanctions on Rhodesia, but even channelled funds towards the very terrorists who were murdering their people.

    That’s nothing compared to the aid Rhodesia received from South Africa.

    They called Ian Smith back later the same afternoon and explained that the Americans knew of every sanction busting operation in the world and literally how much petrol, down to the last thousand litres that the Rhodesian armed forces had. Henry Kissinger blah blah blah.

    So? It was in the United States interest to not be seen to be on the side of a racist, murderous apartheid police state. The United States didn’t support the black freedom fighters either. So that’s a wash. Why did Rhodesia need the US and Britain to prop them up? They were well armed and had access to the full military and intelligence resources of South Africa. They even received help from Israel.

    Yes blacks lived for thousands of years without White medicine. Tribal medicine can be more effective than Modern medicine in SOME or MANY cases but not ALL. But with the coming of White man’s medicine, populations in Africa and Asia increased a lot. Basically, more children were surviving than before.

    It’s not a foregone conclusion that “white medicine” led to population increases. How many black Rhodesians had access to western medicine anyway?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Malla

    Why did Rhodesia need the US and Britain to prop them up?
     
    Oil to run a modern economy. Except that, nothing much.

    How many black Rhodesians had access to western medicine anyway?
     
    There were doctors and hospitals many run by missionaries. Africa's population saw a growth spurt with the coming of modern Western medicine especially antibiotics. Same with Asia. Africa's black bantu (non Horn) population was less than 110 million. Today Nigeria alone has more people.

    The United States didn’t support the black freedom fighters either.
     
    Covertly they did. The Soviets did not covertly support Rhodesia.

    That’s nothing compared to the aid Rhodesia received from South Africa.
     
    Not true.

    It was in the United States interest to not be seen to be on the side of a racist, murderous apartheid police state.
     
    It was no murderous police state.

    ZANU did not win most military battles when faced directly with the Rhodesian Army.
    , @Malla
    Listen, I am not looking at this as Black vs White, more like the same forces which acted during the English Revolution (Cromwell), French Revolution, all the anti colonial movements in India, Vietnam, Africa, the Mexican revolution (Pacho villa), Young Turks revolution, Communist revolution, Orange revolution, Cuban Revolution etc... were working to bring down Rhodesia and pre 1994 South Africa. Those same forces brought down Adolf Hitler, Mussolini, the Japanese Empire, Saddam, Milosevic and Qaddafi. You may look at it as conspiracy non sense but this is for others who want to investigate this further.
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  181. Malla says:
    @Okechukwu

    Of course Rhodesia was stabbed in the back. Why did Britain put sanctions on Rhodesia in the first place?
     
    Duh...it was their prerogative, acting in their own national interest. The blacks too were effectively sanctioned in as much as they weren't getting any aid from South Africa, Portugal or the West while Rhodesia was getting such aid.

    Never Beaten – Betrayed
    As the Prime Minister of Rhodesia, Mr. Ian Smith, declared: “We were never beaten by our enemies, we were betrayed by our friends.”
     
    Great! Let's take Ian Smith's word as gospel. Are you drunk?

    However, when Rhodesia was targeted by Soviet and Red Chinese trained and supported revolutionaries, their British, Canadian, Australian and American allies not only placed economic sanctions on Rhodesia, but even channelled funds towards the very terrorists who were murdering their people.
     
    That's nothing compared to the aid Rhodesia received from South Africa.

    They called Ian Smith back later the same afternoon and explained that the Americans knew of every sanction busting operation in the world and literally how much petrol, down to the last thousand litres that the Rhodesian armed forces had. Henry Kissinger blah blah blah.
     
    So? It was in the United States interest to not be seen to be on the side of a racist, murderous apartheid police state. The United States didn't support the black freedom fighters either. So that's a wash. Why did Rhodesia need the US and Britain to prop them up? They were well armed and had access to the full military and intelligence resources of South Africa. They even received help from Israel.

    Yes blacks lived for thousands of years without White medicine. Tribal medicine can be more effective than Modern medicine in SOME or MANY cases but not ALL. But with the coming of White man’s medicine, populations in Africa and Asia increased a lot. Basically, more children were surviving than before.
     
    It's not a foregone conclusion that "white medicine" led to population increases. How many black Rhodesians had access to western medicine anyway?

    Why did Rhodesia need the US and Britain to prop them up?

    Oil to run a modern economy. Except that, nothing much.

    How many black Rhodesians had access to western medicine anyway?

    There were doctors and hospitals many run by missionaries. Africa’s population saw a growth spurt with the coming of modern Western medicine especially antibiotics. Same with Asia. Africa’s black bantu (non Horn) population was less than 110 million. Today Nigeria alone has more people.

    The United States didn’t support the black freedom fighters either.

    Covertly they did. The Soviets did not covertly support Rhodesia.

    That’s nothing compared to the aid Rhodesia received from South Africa.

    Not true.

    It was in the United States interest to not be seen to be on the side of a racist, murderous apartheid police state.

    It was no murderous police state.

    ZANU did not win most military battles when faced directly with the Rhodesian Army.

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  182. Malla says:
    @Okechukwu

    Of course Rhodesia was stabbed in the back. Why did Britain put sanctions on Rhodesia in the first place?
     
    Duh...it was their prerogative, acting in their own national interest. The blacks too were effectively sanctioned in as much as they weren't getting any aid from South Africa, Portugal or the West while Rhodesia was getting such aid.

    Never Beaten – Betrayed
    As the Prime Minister of Rhodesia, Mr. Ian Smith, declared: “We were never beaten by our enemies, we were betrayed by our friends.”
     
    Great! Let's take Ian Smith's word as gospel. Are you drunk?

    However, when Rhodesia was targeted by Soviet and Red Chinese trained and supported revolutionaries, their British, Canadian, Australian and American allies not only placed economic sanctions on Rhodesia, but even channelled funds towards the very terrorists who were murdering their people.
     
    That's nothing compared to the aid Rhodesia received from South Africa.

    They called Ian Smith back later the same afternoon and explained that the Americans knew of every sanction busting operation in the world and literally how much petrol, down to the last thousand litres that the Rhodesian armed forces had. Henry Kissinger blah blah blah.
     
    So? It was in the United States interest to not be seen to be on the side of a racist, murderous apartheid police state. The United States didn't support the black freedom fighters either. So that's a wash. Why did Rhodesia need the US and Britain to prop them up? They were well armed and had access to the full military and intelligence resources of South Africa. They even received help from Israel.

    Yes blacks lived for thousands of years without White medicine. Tribal medicine can be more effective than Modern medicine in SOME or MANY cases but not ALL. But with the coming of White man’s medicine, populations in Africa and Asia increased a lot. Basically, more children were surviving than before.
     
    It's not a foregone conclusion that "white medicine" led to population increases. How many black Rhodesians had access to western medicine anyway?

    Listen, I am not looking at this as Black vs White, more like the same forces which acted during the English Revolution (Cromwell), French Revolution, all the anti colonial movements in India, Vietnam, Africa, the Mexican revolution (Pacho villa), Young Turks revolution, Communist revolution, Orange revolution, Cuban Revolution etc… were working to bring down Rhodesia and pre 1994 South Africa. Those same forces brought down Adolf Hitler, Mussolini, the Japanese Empire, Saddam, Milosevic and Qaddafi. You may look at it as conspiracy non sense but this is for others who want to investigate this further.

    Read More
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  183. @Alden
    You commented that White European colonies destroyed pre 1900 black Africa.

    Lavoisier asked you to document your statement.

    You replied by citing about 1/4 of the American Cherokees who moved west to preserve their tribal identity and lifestyle.

    That’s no answer, it just shows how ignorant you are, jumping from continent to continent and century to century.

    That was no answer It was just stupid.

    Excuse the delay

    Laughing and laughing really hard.

    I am not going to place myself in opposition that whites and yellows consider themselves the smartest peoples on the planet and have engaged in any number of destructive campaigns nationally and internationally to make their point.

    Hence the reason for why Africa was treated vastly differently (i am not sure hatred is the correct term.)

    But clearly, if one thinks that one population is barely human and destined to be either controlled or wiped out, there’s no need to consider them as competition worthy of respect.

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  184. @Ed
    Only black Africans are allowed citizenship in Liberia. It’s the 4th poorest country in the world so not sure if anyone much cares though.

    Nkrumah is probably as pan-African as you’re going to get.

    Time will tell.

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  185. @lavoisier
    Interesting sources of information.

    But something gets lost in translation when you fall back on the usual and predictable liberal canard that multiple advanced black civilizations were destroyed by whitey.

    I am no fan of colonialism or the subjugation of people. But it is nothing more than foolishness to claim that European colonization destroyed advanced African cultures. Colonization was about making money. If African civilizations were so advanced the colonizers would have worked to milk that civilization for its riches and innovative practices in trade and navigation. It would have not have been in their interests to destroy those cultures.

    Please explain in greater detail how whitey destroyed African civilizations? And what did whitey gain in the process of that destruction?

    excuse the delay

    Short answer: When the slave trade was commenced entire societies were lost, not only to slavery but in the raid to vest Africa of its rubber material — King Leopold’s Ghost by Adam Hochschild.

    One doesn’t even need to read historical material to know that when slaves were obtained by whatever means, their cultural identities didn’t matter – skin color was enough –

    I know it is strategic, but liberal, conservative, or otherwise, the record is pretty straight up on what the Europeans did on the continent and why. we are not talking about the meaning of events, but the events themselves — and that record doesn’t need exposition. it is what it is.

    As for advanced knowledge, and I want to be careful here because advanced as noted previously can be a tricky in perspective. But I will do you one better than you suggest in two ways:

    1. Your argument is if some African civilization was advanced then the colonists would have raided them of the same — my responses are

    a. nonsense, one need not be advanced to be taken advantage of in that regard – case closed. robbed of their most vital resources: men and women via slavery, the military and privateeer destruction of entire populations for their iron, copper, diamonds, timber, stone, ivory – wholesale destruction of ecosystems —

    b. if one takes a tour of US plantations, one will get an earful of the technologies in prefab housing techniques, home ventilation, agriculture, architecture, etc all derived from slaves

    2. you don’t understand history very well. There’s little in the way of colonial enterprise by the Europeans that reflected some deep level of cultural exchange between blacks, barely considered human and whites. In other words, if I consider myself superior, the likelihood, that I would consider you have anything of value to offer is for naught — which explains why South African did what they did to the fortresses they found — they simply decided that they could not have been built by blacks and claimed them developed by whites.

    It is not uncommon to load up such conversations with data set sources, but as I suspect is the case here, it is an excuse to hop skip over what is plainly unhidden information because it is unpleasant.

    3. The answer to the last of what was to be gained in obvious as well as contained in the above responses.

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  186. It’s called conquest.

    I am not nor have I ever been a liberal —

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  187. @Malla

    I would note that what the Europeans did in Africa is not what they did is Asia, the Middle East, or even Northern Africa.
     
    Seems like a dubious argument. Why the special hatred for Africa? India alone has several times more monuments than what Sub Saharan Africa ever had in 10000 years. It is Asia which the biggest challenge to the European sense of superiority, the evil YTs should have gone about destroying Indian and South East Asian monuments like Angkor Wat because simply these regions were under their direct rule. And in the beginning, before a historic consciousness arose, no Indian or Cambodian or Indonesian would have given a damn. Touch a living temple and the locals would have been in arms but destroy some ancient site, unused for centuries in the jungle and most natives would not even have cared. How much fun the evil Whities would have had destroying ancient monuments throughout Asia!!! But they did not. Not only did they not destroy the monuments, they studied the monuments and preserved the monuments. And I am sure they did not destroy monuments in Africa too except in some rare cases like battle.
    Most Indians had very little knowledge about the great Indian emperor Ashoka, he was all but forgotten. It were British East India Company scholars who researched Chinese and Greek documents and told us about our own glorious history.

    NOT ONLY THAT. Colonial Historians are responsible for the rise of Indian Hindu fundamentalist nationalism. Today's Hindutva hardcores who hate foreign influences on Indian history and want to remove all foreign influences on Indian culture/history including Islamic, Western/European/British as well as East Asian influences to create a Hindu Rastra (Hindu nation India) got all their inspiration from Colonial Historians. LOL. Colonial historians inspired hardcore Hindu Indian nationalism.
    Romila Thapar, who is one of the top Indian historians from Jamunalal Nehru University, JNU, one of the top universities of Independent India talks about this in the video.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STXzvkO6bZ4

    Colonel Orcott, a British historian had a famous theory that we Indians civilized the World, including Europe! That gave rise to the Out of India theory of Aryans, that Aryans were indigenous to India pushed around by Hinduvadi ultra nationalist crackpots. Evil YTS made us Indians into supermen!!!

    excuse the delay and I hate to repeat but . . .

    India is in Asia the nature of that relationship was vastly different than with the peoples of Africa and their various states.

    I suspect, there are several reasons previously noted. And make no mistake, the Indian subcontinent is riddled with lost civilizations resulting from European battles for resources.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Malla

    India is in Asia the nature of that relationship was vastly different than with the peoples of Africa and their various states.
     
    Does not make sense. Why this special hatred for black Africans?

    And make no mistake, the Indian subcontinent is riddled with lost civilizations resulting from European battles for resources.
     
    The White ass British scholars researched history and told Indians about their glorious history, something which Indian people had forgotten. White ass British scholars found many ruins and preserved them something the locals at that time did not care about. Same with South East Asia.

    I think this Whites destroyed hidden African civilizations is just a convenient way to explain the lack of many monuments in large parts of Africa. Why did all the nations of Europe not come together and destroy the rock cut monuments of Axum in Ethiopia? Ethiopian monuments survived quite well the last 5 centuries of European expansion, ofcourse Ethiopia was never colonized, but how hard would it be for a combined force of British, French, Dutch etc... to go and conquer Ethiopia. The British did sack Ethiopia once but we do not see any such disappearance of monuments. The mosque of Timbuktu survived French rule.
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  188. @Alden
    You commented that White European colonies destroyed pre 1900 black Africa.

    Lavoisier asked you to document your statement.

    You replied by citing about 1/4 of the American Cherokees who moved west to preserve their tribal identity and lifestyle.

    That’s no answer, it just shows how ignorant you are, jumping from continent to continent and century to century.

    That was no answer It was just stupid.

    Hmmmmm . . . excuse the delay.

    I don’t think you have the context correct. I think I referenced co-existing societies. If that includes 19th and 18th century relations, then I stand by that.

    Uhhh, your comment about my response to the Cherokee discussion is entirely incorrect. not only did I state what occurred concerning the Cherokee, I provided a reference. Ignoring of course that by now, that history is well known. Your comprehension of Pres Jackson, is wholly distorted.

    1. Whether they assimilated or not, by treaty and agreement the Cherokee had ever right to live as they were —

    2. Pres Andrew Jackson’s call was in violation of the law — the constitution of the US. It was purely a matter of superiority of whites – period. I am making no judgement about his view, but that was the basis for his press.

    I am ignorant of many things. i have a lot yet to learn. one of the issues about which I have been and remain ignorant is the on the intelligence, industriousness and complexity of African civilizations, it goes well beyond Egypt. What I hope is not an accurate suggestion is that I am engaged in strategic rhetoric intended to avoid honest discussion. I will take your final comment as admonition to be careful in avoiding even the appearance of deception.

    In this discussion, I don’t think there is any evidence of such method.

    Read More
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  189. What is happening over the last twenty years is that the West is being denied being the holders and the voices of African history. And as that becomes more and more the case, we are discovering that Europeans have been either incorrect in their telling and in some cases, deliberately distorting the record.

    I like to lean on books, but for expediency, when I can find something helpful online, I will generally share that info. the west is in trouble, because other civilizations or populations once powerful are re-emerging. I have too admit that is very tough to deal with. But pretending that skin color is an indication of superior humanness is a speculative enterprise.

    As for the dysfunctions — they are important factors in civilizations, but the record indicates, that in the wax and wane of human development, what some states in Africa are wrestling with is nothing new to all societies. I really want to embrace my British roots of what my citizenship means and where it comes from — and that history is very turbulent, violent, full of intrigue, brutality, lies, subversion, intermarriage, hypocrisy and no small amount of betrayal and death.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Ed
    We Wuz Kangs! Except the kangs never got around to developing a written language, performing basic math or navigating the seas.
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  190. Ed says:
    @EliteCommInc.
    What is happening over the last twenty years is that the West is being denied being the holders and the voices of African history. And as that becomes more and more the case, we are discovering that Europeans have been either incorrect in their telling and in some cases, deliberately distorting the record.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1VtnOrcC80

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wjz4y8APk_Y

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYFg-JBrhZ8


    I like to lean on books, but for expediency, when I can find something helpful online, I will generally share that info. the west is in trouble, because other civilizations or populations once powerful are re-emerging. I have too admit that is very tough to deal with. But pretending that skin color is an indication of superior humanness is a speculative enterprise.

    As for the dysfunctions -- they are important factors in civilizations, but the record indicates, that in the wax and wane of human development, what some states in Africa are wrestling with is nothing new to all societies. I really want to embrace my British roots of what my citizenship means and where it comes from -- and that history is very turbulent, violent, full of intrigue, brutality, lies, subversion, intermarriage, hypocrisy and no small amount of betrayal and death.

    We Wuz Kangs! Except the kangs never got around to developing a written language, performing basic math or navigating the seas.

    Read More
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  191. Malla says:
    @Truth
    Well of course, My good man, but The Donna was going to Put Hillary in Jail and Build the Wall and Clean up the Swamp!

    What can I say Truth, what is a politician who does not break his promise. Obama had promised to close down Guantanamo Bay. It is still running. America’s secret naval base on CUBAN territory, on enemy territory. Strange world this.

    Read More
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  192. Malla says:
    @EliteCommInc.
    excuse the delay and I hate to repeat but . . .

    India is in Asia the nature of that relationship was vastly different than with the peoples of Africa and their various states.

    I suspect, there are several reasons previously noted. And make no mistake, the Indian subcontinent is riddled with lost civilizations resulting from European battles for resources.

    India is in Asia the nature of that relationship was vastly different than with the peoples of Africa and their various states.

    Does not make sense. Why this special hatred for black Africans?

    And make no mistake, the Indian subcontinent is riddled with lost civilizations resulting from European battles for resources.

    The White ass British scholars researched history and told Indians about their glorious history, something which Indian people had forgotten. White ass British scholars found many ruins and preserved them something the locals at that time did not care about. Same with South East Asia.

    I think this Whites destroyed hidden African civilizations is just a convenient way to explain the lack of many monuments in large parts of Africa. Why did all the nations of Europe not come together and destroy the rock cut monuments of Axum in Ethiopia? Ethiopian monuments survived quite well the last 5 centuries of European expansion, ofcourse Ethiopia was never colonized, but how hard would it be for a combined force of British, French, Dutch etc… to go and conquer Ethiopia. The British did sack Ethiopia once but we do not see any such disappearance of monuments. The mosque of Timbuktu survived French rule.

    Read More
    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
    I am going to avoid a discussion that challenges the data based merely on one's challenge to the agenda of the providers. I don't agree with every interpretation of motive. But I am willing to consider that whites looking through the lens of superior status by their rendering of skin color to humanness and the use of scripture treated blacks as they so concluded

    blacks were on the low end of the human ladder and as descendants of Cain entreated to treatment as animals. That perspective colored much of European policy and is reflected in countless upon countless interactions.

    The fact that you and I may have some trouble having to deal with new data coming out of Africa and some of the subsequent interpretation against what we previously accepted won't change reality.

    Now in this discussion I note what seems evident whites did destroy actively some civilizations and they did so by distorting what they did find. Does this mean that every white archaeologist did so -- no. Does this mean that previous to colonization that African civilizations did not disappear for reasons having nothing to do with Europeans colonization - absolutely not.

    Must one be a traitor to a conservative perspective based on acknowledging there intertwined realities -- not at all in any way. You pressed for data and some sources, -- how you choose to deal with it is of course your choice. When I was a kid I thought native americans were wild horse back arrow toting enemies. But as I grew older and exposed to the vast array of what comprised native american civilizations, I soon had to bury my childish notions under the wait of reality of both the depth complexity, intelligence and sophistication of the myriad of native american civilizations that inhabited the continent. Part of that reality has been the result of narrative shift from the conquerors to the conquered. Does that mean, I have to reject the name of the Washington Redskins - uhhh, nope. That name is not an insult. But I can embrace that team and still acknowledge that history and who told it matters. Go redskins. The "trail of tears" and the rhetoric that advocated it - was deep hypocrisy on the part of the US.

    And that knowledge has to go beyond the pilgrims being saved by native american agricultural knowledge that surpassed those of the whites new to the area.

    Go Redskins.
    , @jay
    Why haven't they retained the ability to build advanced civilizations. Other peoples have no problem pulling themselves up by their bootstraps for wherever they go civilization results.

    But Africans seem to have lost that ability.
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  193. @Malla

    India is in Asia the nature of that relationship was vastly different than with the peoples of Africa and their various states.
     
    Does not make sense. Why this special hatred for black Africans?

    And make no mistake, the Indian subcontinent is riddled with lost civilizations resulting from European battles for resources.
     
    The White ass British scholars researched history and told Indians about their glorious history, something which Indian people had forgotten. White ass British scholars found many ruins and preserved them something the locals at that time did not care about. Same with South East Asia.

    I think this Whites destroyed hidden African civilizations is just a convenient way to explain the lack of many monuments in large parts of Africa. Why did all the nations of Europe not come together and destroy the rock cut monuments of Axum in Ethiopia? Ethiopian monuments survived quite well the last 5 centuries of European expansion, ofcourse Ethiopia was never colonized, but how hard would it be for a combined force of British, French, Dutch etc... to go and conquer Ethiopia. The British did sack Ethiopia once but we do not see any such disappearance of monuments. The mosque of Timbuktu survived French rule.

    I am going to avoid a discussion that challenges the data based merely on one’s challenge to the agenda of the providers. I don’t agree with every interpretation of motive. But I am willing to consider that whites looking through the lens of superior status by their rendering of skin color to humanness and the use of scripture treated blacks as they so concluded

    blacks were on the low end of the human ladder and as descendants of Cain entreated to treatment as animals. That perspective colored much of European policy and is reflected in countless upon countless interactions.

    The fact that you and I may have some trouble having to deal with new data coming out of Africa and some of the subsequent interpretation against what we previously accepted won’t change reality.

    Now in this discussion I note what seems evident whites did destroy actively some civilizations and they did so by distorting what they did find. Does this mean that every white archaeologist did so — no. Does this mean that previous to colonization that African civilizations did not disappear for reasons having nothing to do with Europeans colonization – absolutely not.

    Must one be a traitor to a conservative perspective based on acknowledging there intertwined realities — not at all in any way. You pressed for data and some sources, — how you choose to deal with it is of course your choice. When I was a kid I thought native americans were wild horse back arrow toting enemies. But as I grew older and exposed to the vast array of what comprised native american civilizations, I soon had to bury my childish notions under the wait of reality of both the depth complexity, intelligence and sophistication of the myriad of native american civilizations that inhabited the continent. Part of that reality has been the result of narrative shift from the conquerors to the conquered. Does that mean, I have to reject the name of the Washington Redskins – uhhh, nope. That name is not an insult. But I can embrace that team and still acknowledge that history and who told it matters. Go redskins. The “trail of tears” and the rhetoric that advocated it – was deep hypocrisy on the part of the US.

    And that knowledge has to go beyond the pilgrims being saved by native american agricultural knowledge that surpassed those of the whites new to the area.

    Go Redskins.

    Read More
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  194. Kolo says:
    @Wally
    What "theft"?
    The West buys what Africa sells.
    Simple stuff really.

    Show us your "verified reports". As if anyone could simply load a tanker with oil without paying, without being noticed, without being approved for port departure.
    Show us the "verified reports".

    "Indigenous" farming? Don't make me laugh.
    They are capable of feeding only a small percentage of Africans.
    Show us verifiable data on your unfounded "dumping"

    I'm calling you out. I say you are merely an empty leftist.
    Africa long ago ran out of excuses for their complete failure as have Marxists like yourself.

    Cheers.

    Your are indeed a wally

    Read More
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  195. jay says:
    @Malla

    India is in Asia the nature of that relationship was vastly different than with the peoples of Africa and their various states.
     
    Does not make sense. Why this special hatred for black Africans?

    And make no mistake, the Indian subcontinent is riddled with lost civilizations resulting from European battles for resources.
     
    The White ass British scholars researched history and told Indians about their glorious history, something which Indian people had forgotten. White ass British scholars found many ruins and preserved them something the locals at that time did not care about. Same with South East Asia.

    I think this Whites destroyed hidden African civilizations is just a convenient way to explain the lack of many monuments in large parts of Africa. Why did all the nations of Europe not come together and destroy the rock cut monuments of Axum in Ethiopia? Ethiopian monuments survived quite well the last 5 centuries of European expansion, ofcourse Ethiopia was never colonized, but how hard would it be for a combined force of British, French, Dutch etc... to go and conquer Ethiopia. The British did sack Ethiopia once but we do not see any such disappearance of monuments. The mosque of Timbuktu survived French rule.

    Why haven’t they retained the ability to build advanced civilizations. Other peoples have no problem pulling themselves up by their bootstraps for wherever they go civilization results.

    But Africans seem to have lost that ability.

    Read More
    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
    Let's take some recent societies


    Neither Germany not Japan pulled themselves up by their bootstraps. neither did victorious Europe.

    Untangling the cords of colonials isn't as simple colonial be gone.


    And I think it's a tad premature to come to any conclusions about the continent of Africa and i won't even hazard a guess by what is intended a successful bootstrap remedy or when said remedy ends.

    I suspect that the states on the continent will figure out who they are and intend to be in due time anc course, if they haven't already.
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  196. @jay
    Why haven't they retained the ability to build advanced civilizations. Other peoples have no problem pulling themselves up by their bootstraps for wherever they go civilization results.

    But Africans seem to have lost that ability.

    Let’s take some recent societies

    Neither Germany not Japan pulled themselves up by their bootstraps. neither did victorious Europe.

    Untangling the cords of colonials isn’t as simple colonial be gone.

    And I think it’s a tad premature to come to any conclusions about the continent of Africa and i won’t even hazard a guess by what is intended a successful bootstrap remedy or when said remedy ends.

    I suspect that the states on the continent will figure out who they are and intend to be in due time anc course, if they haven’t already.

    Read More
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