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A DAY IN THE LIFE. The Bennett family’s day began with a prayer at “the Western Wall, the holiest site in Judaism.” It ended in the murder of the family’s father, stabbed to death in the Old City as he attempted to save wife and son from the same fate. A rabbi who rushed to the rescue was knifed to death, too. Twenty-two-year-old Odel Bennett found herself running for her life, a blade in her shoulder, as Palestinian onlookers jeered and spat in her direction.

As widow Odel Bennett convalesced with her toddler at the Hadassah Medical Center in Jerusalem, another Jewish woman (an elderly Iraqi) was recovering at Jerusalem’s Shaare Zedek Hospital from gun and knife wounds similarly inflicted. Her husband lay in the morgue. That couple’s day started on a “Jerusalem city bus, when two Palestinians attacked with knives and a gun,” reported National Public Radio.

Surveillance camera footage uploaded to the Internet show numerous Palestinian-on-Jew attacks in real time. Waiting at a bus stop, these Arabs are wont to turn and plunge a knife into a Jewish neighbor’s back, again and again and again.

Religious imprimatur for the current wave of attacks on Israelis comes from the highest authority in the Palestinian Authority and beyond. In mosques across the Gaza Strip and the West Bank, clerics deliver sermons brandishing scimitars, inciting the faithful to “form stabbing squads and cut the Jews into body parts.”

Mosques enjoy the support of the Palestinian family, school and authority.

UNIDIRECTIONAL VIOLENCE. This time last year—and decades prior—Muslims from East Jerusalem raided a synagogue, killing five Israelis.

These unidirectional assaults on Jews are nearly as old as the Tomb of our Patriarch Joseph. Oops: The ancient Nablus shrine was torched, the other day, by Muhammadan peaceniks, acting à la ISIS (in Syria and Iraq).

As the “Independent Media Review and Analysis” has chronicled, “Arab and Palestinian violence against Israel started well before 1967”:

In 1952, when “fedayeen” terrorist border incursions reached their height, there were about 3,000 incidents of cross-border violence, extending from the malicious destruction of property to the brutal murder of civilians. In the years 1951-1955, 503 Israelis were killed by Arab terrorists infiltrating from Jordan, 358 were killed in attacks from Egypt, and 61 were killed in attacks originating from Syria and Lebanon.

To the 2014 “cycle” of unidirectional blood-letting, Barack Obama responded by sharing not his moral outrage, but his penchant for moral equivalence. “The majority of Palestinians and Israelis overwhelmingly want peace,” he intoned.

No wonder the presidential proboscis grew a little, for this is untrue. A preponderance of Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza approve of attacks on Israeli civilians. Duly, Palestinians shared sweets and tweets to celebrate the murder of those four rabbis in prayer.

AMERICA, TOO, HAS MET THE MOPE (MOST OPPRESSED PEOPLE EVER). So, what’s new under the sun? Nothing. The sad same old same old. The MOPE is at it again, doing what the Ummah does best.

Muhammadans have honed a comparative advantage in killing. It’s a function of the religion of peace. Not all Muhammadans strive to partake in Jihad, but a statistically significant lot of them is poised to join.

Americans, too, endure perennial punishment by Muhammadan peaceniks.

Flash back to July 16 of 2015.

The murdered: Four U.S. Marines
The murderer: Muhammad Youssef Abdulazeez, 24.
The place: A U.S. Navy facility in Chattanooga, Tennessee.
The occasion: The conclusion of the Ramadan.

Alas, Israelis seldom extend us the sympathy Americans so dearly deserve. The Muhammadan menace in the U.S. is, by default, downplayed when it’s portrayed by Israelis as part-and-parcel of the cross borne by a multicultural, multiethnic democracy: The U.S.

The largely homogeneous Jewish State is said to be entitled to live free of the Muhammadan menace. Not so our Anglo-American Christian civilization.

Let right-minded Americans remind their Israeli friends, however, that America was not multiethnic and multireligious by birth. Rather, the America we love and need every bit as Israelis love and need Israel has become a balkanized, multiethnic toilet by political design, by force.

This is no way to live. Not for Americans; not for Israelis.

ROOT-CAUSES ROT. Aided by their enablers, habitual offenders rely on “root-causes” theology to excuse their murderous proclivities.

Contrary to what pop-analysts in the political and psychotherapeutic realm proclaim, bombs and knives aren’t a response to hopelessness. In the words of Howard Jacobson of the British Independent, “It is fanaticism of sympathy to grant the power of life and death to those who are dissatisfied, as though unhappiness were a sort of absolution that wiped out every other human obligation.”

In particular is The MOPE (Most Oppressed People Ever) currently deploying the Temple Mount to incite violence against Israeli innocents.

True to type, Al Jazeera tallied the carnage on both sides so as to incriminate Israelis.

By Al Jazeera’s definition, the party that wins a fight against a Muslim is the guilty party. The Al-Jaz equation: The more fatalities suffered; the greater the innocence.

To wit, “50 Palestinians have been killed in shootings and clashes with Israeli forces in the occupied Palestinian territories and Israel, while eight Israelis have been killed in knife and gun attacks.”

At the very least, an honest report ought to start from … the starting point: First to be attacked and killed were innocent Israelis. Next to be dispatched, in the course of self-defense, were Palestinian aggressors.

The taqiyya talkers of Al-Jaz tell their viewers that the cause of this last spate of attacks on Jews was “recent visits by Jewish groups to the Al-Aqsa Mosque compound in occupied East Jerusalem, coupled with Israeli restrictions on Palestinian access to the mosque, one of Islam’s holiest sites.”

A bald-faced lie—and the exact opposite. The august BBC News, no friend of Israel, attests that Jews [had] been temporarily banned from the Temple Mount/Haram al-Sharif compound,” whereas all restrictions on Muslim worshippers were “lifted to ease tension during the Muslim Eid al-Adha holiday.”

Deception when directed at non-Muslims, and in furtherance of The Faith, is a tenet of Shari’a law. It’s called taqiyya.

ORDER IT NOW

And “Yerushalaim” is the name of the city that was sacred to Jews for nearly two thousand years before Muhammad. Not once is Jerusalem mentioned in the Koran. Muhammad was said to have departed to the heavens from the Al Aksa Mosque, but there was no mosque in Jerusalem. The Dome of the Rock and the Al Aksa Mosque were built on the Jewish Temple Mount. This usurpation was subsequently justified by Muslim theologians by superimposing their relatively recent fondness for Jerusalem upon the existing, ancient sanctity of the place to Jews.

CYCLE, SCHMEICHEL. “Breaking these cycles of violence will require more than self-defense,” noodled the New York Times’ editorial board.

A “long-running conflict,” a “trade in bitter recriminations,” “the cycles of stabbings, shootings, bombings and fear,” chimed America’s mono-cultural media.

“Cycle of violence” suggests an amorphous sequence that has no beginning or end.

It is all too clear, however, who initiates the deadly, Pali-Israeli dance. As a Canadian colleague once astutely observed, “If Palestinians stopped their attacks today, tomorrow there would be no Israeli attacks. But if Israel stopped unilaterally, would you trust the Palestinians to follow?”

 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: Islam, Israel/Palestine, Terrorism 
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  1. How would the Jews behave if they were in the Palestinians’ shoes and the Palestinians were in the Jews’ shoes?

    As it has been for thousands of years, it’s who controls the guns of government. That is the problem.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  2. Hugo says:

    Yawn. More Zionist propaganda. The main point should be why do we Americans & Europeans care about what two groups of Semites are up to? You people want to have a dust up? Go right ahead. I’ll get the comfy chair and the popcorn. We have no dog in this fight.

    • Replies: @Anon7
  3. “If Palestinians stopped their attacks today, tomorrow there would be no Israeli attacks.”
    This is a non sequitur and a dubious claim at best.
    “But if Israel stopped unilaterally, would you trust the Palestinians to follow?”
    To make an exaggerated parallel, in 1942 Yugoslavia, if the Wehrmacht stops pursuing the partisans, would you trust the partisans to follow? Because Israel is, according to the UN, an occupying power.

    That said, however much the Palestinian grievances may be justified, knifing civilians doesn’t look like either a good strategy or a morally acceptable thing to do. Attacking the IDF can perhaps be interpreted as waging a war (or something). But knifing civilians is terrorism. It is also bad PR and bad strategy (since it only stiffens Israeli hatred and resolve).

    The recent stabbings are worse than a crime – they are a blunder.

  4. I wonder… How many of the purported victims of “Islamist terrorism” are actually the victims of false flag attacks, psy-ops, perpetrated by Mossad?

    • Replies: @Clyde
    , @Sam Shama
  5. Giuseppe says:

    A plague on both your houses.

    • Replies: @Vendetta
  6. maybe the jews should have thought of that when they invaded and took over other people’s lands? it is extremely dangerous for occupiers. they are armed with knives right now. what happens when they get their hands on some serious weapon? not those dingy rockets that does nothing?

    hell, why not go all the way? use the military and roll over the entire palestianian territory. use the “holocaust victim card” when the shit hits the fans. it will work, cause the media will keep the american public in the dark, it will work. throw away the facade and just do it already. in the very near future this option would be gone.

    fyi, most americans don’t care, so long as that is the case, israel go can nuts, just make it fast.

    the only thing palestinians can do? get better weapons. small arms does jack shit vs a modern army backed by the only super power on earth atm. as long as usa is israel’s bitch, your only chance is better weapons.

    • Replies: @Massimo Heitor
  7. So this “paleolibertarian” is really a neocon.

    • Replies: @Hugo
    , @SFG
  8. Do us a favor and cut the Jews are noble-Jews just wanted to be friends with the people living in Palestine-Judaism is a superior religion crap.

  9. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Wow. What an incredibly biased piece to find here at Unz.

    These Jews who would point the finger at Palestinians and claim innocence for themselves, are the same Jews who are appalled when whites blame black people for violence.

    If a flock of blacks riot and rape and kill a bunch of whites, Jews will be the first to point out the history of persecution that black people have faced. They will be the first to label anyone who talks about blacks being violent or instigating things as being a racist.

    So excuse me while I laugh at the irony here.

    • Replies: @Wally
  10. JustJeff says:

    It’s almost as if people don’t like to be forced into poverty and treated like animals.

    • Replies: @iffen
  11. Mark Green says: • Website

    How did an Israeli propagandist worm her way onto this site?

    Aren’t there enough forums devoted to Israel-centric advocacy already? What about Fox news or the Weekly Standard?

    Is an op-ed by Charles Krauthammer coming next?

    Ms. Mercer will be happy to know that, as it turns out, the Israelis enjoy a very comfortable upper hand in this struggle–though you’d never know it by reading her breathless screed.

    Sadly, innocent people are dying on both sides. But it is the Palestinians who are doing most of the suffering and most of the dying. In fact, the long-term kill ratio favors Israel by at least eight to one. Even so, the economic and political disparity favoring Israel is still greater since these revealing numbers do not reflect the death toll of crypto-Israeli militarism such as Washington’s destruction of Iraq and Libya.

    So please quit clouding the issue with your anti-Muslim rants. Theology is incidental to the struggle in Israel/Palestine. The conflict is more about ancestry and identity. These terrible ‘Muslims’ could just as easily be Palestinian-born Christians or Hindus or atheists, since all non-Jews are equally unwelcome living inside the Jewish State. They interfere with what Israel is all about: Jewish safety, Jewish cohesion, Jewish identity and Jewish separation.

    What we have in Israel/Palestine is a war between Jews from anywhere and gentiles from one place. In a normal world, America would be neutral in this conflict. But our nation’s policies have been hijacked. This is both perplexing and worrisome. After all, the US government cannot in any way express religious preference within our borders. So why are we expressing religious preference outside of our borders? I attribute this distortion to the pressures of one ethnic lobby.

    This entrenched favoritism is not consistent with Constitutional principles. And on a more practical level, Washington’s love affair with the Jewish state is perilous.

    Indeed, it was the imposition in 1948 of a Jews Only state in a land inhabited primarily by non-Jews that sparked and sustains this region’s most-enduring struggle. Christians, Jews and Muslims were living in relative harmony in pre-Zionist Palestine. The establishment of Israel put an end to that. Formal lines were drawn. Foreign invasions were launched. Wars have since skyrocketed. America has needlessly taken sides.

    Israel’s preemptive war in 1967 added more fuel to the fire. The Six Day War not only provided Israel with more territory, but a larger, non-Jewish population to rule over. These non-Jews have been living under Israeli military occupation for nearly half a century. This subjugation is the near-equivalent of a ‘life sentence’ for hundreds of thousands of ordinary civilians.

    And if it wasn’t for uninterrupted (and unconditional) US aid given to Israel ever since LBJ, the Jewish State’s iron grip on the region would not survive. Yet it does. Hey, there’s a headline right there! Care to comment, Ms. Mercer?

    Why not weigh in on the political repercussions of ‘Israeli influence in Washington’?

    Huge? Significant?–or of no importance whatsoever?

    Any opinion? Please let us know!

    Israel, America, and the entire Middle East have some very ugly problems going forward. Choices must be made. Hard choices. The status quo must be altered. It’s poison. Even the vaunted, decades-long ‘peace process’ turned out to be a mirage. It turns out that Israel can simply say “NO” indefinitely (and build Jews Only settlements in Palestine)–and there’s no penalty and virtually no consequences. Who’s fooling whom?

    In the meantime, the Palestinian people remain stateless, powerless, vulnerable and impoverished. They know what’s going on: conquest. It’s a state of war. No wonder they’re carrying out ‘terrorist acts’. Their backs are to the wall. Israel is marching into Palestine and mercilessly squeezing them out. What would you do in their situation?

    Unfortunately, all these puny Palestinians can do is launch a protest, throw stones, pray for an Israeli concession, or go on a suicide mission. The result is invariably the same: continued disenfranchisement, less and less leverage.

    These facts speaks to a resounding imbalance of power there that favors Israel. Am I wrong about this, Ms. Mercer?

    If America was half the sovereign superpower it’s supposed to be, this would be the deal:

    Washington suspends all aid to Israel unless the Israelis either 1) end the occupation and allow the Palestinians to develop their own independent and contiguous state approximating their 1967 borders, or 2) annex the Occupied Territories and give all the gentiles living there equal rights and equal citizenship with Jews inside greater Israel. One democratic state for all?

    How’s that for democratic values? So which shall it be?

    Israel’s answer: Neither.

    Israel will never ‘jeopardize’ its Jewish character nor give up the land that it snatched in 1967. Those wonderful Zionists would rather let the Palestinians live under the worst conditions imaginable than achieve lasting peace though concession.

    What the Israelis secretly want is for the Palestinians to give up and crawl away. Am I wrong about this? What’s your solution to this conundrum, Ms. Mercer?–more negotiations?

    What should Israel’s precise borders be?

    Oddly, we Americans are expected to always root for the Israelis and always subsidize them. How come? Is this Fantasyland?–or a bad dream?

    But the ‘evasive’ peace in Israel/Palestine is very achievable. It is also entirely in Israel’s hands.

    Israel has all the political and economic and military power. Israel also controls the land. Israel can hold the Palestinian people hostage. Affluent, nuclear Israel is basically holding all the cards.

    Palestinians on the other hand are holding all the sling-shots. The Palestinians have nothing to bargain with, besides resistance. But even this does not faze super-powerful Israel. The Israelis could care less. They want the Palestinians living in Egypt or Jordan or Lebanon or anywhere besides inside Israel or next to the Jewish state.

    Therefore, Israel’s long term goal is gradual (or sudden) expulsion. As Meir Kahane prophetically declared: “They Must Go”. Bibi agrees. Palestinian society must collapse or fold up its tent and disappear. After that, Israel gets the land that God promised the Jews.

    All the agreements and all the accords and all the ceremonial pomp involving the ‘peace process’ blah blah blah over the past 40 years have basically been a ruse. They bought Israel time. Now the game is over and it’s war through attrition.

    So don’t fib to us, Ms. Mercer, about poor righteous Israel being under siege. That’s kosher baloney you’re selling. Israel is clearly in the driver’s seat.

    I say: let the Zionists fight their own battles. America has no vital, national interest in maintaining the supremacy of one, tiny ethno-state. What’s in it for us? What’s in it for humanity?

  12. Eustace Tilley (not) [AKA "Schiller/Nietzsche"] says:

    Maybe there would be “no Israeli attacks”; maybe there would. Some of us goyim have yet to forget the burning alive of the Palestinian 18-month old girl by Jewish “settlers” a few months ago.

    But there would be wall building, olive grove bulldozing, house demolitions, and land seizures…all by “the Chosen People” of G*d, “taking back” their ancient land. By what right does Israel keep the Palestinians of the Gaza Strip shut up in the world’s largest ghetto?

    And so much of it paid for by the gullible goyim of the U.S.A.

  13. Anon7 says:

    Here’s the video. He starts demonstrating with a knife at about 1:40.

    https://youtu.be/GOqPMdyrMio

    “Now we understand why the [jews] build walls. They do not do it to prevent missiles, but to prevent the slitting of their throats. My brother in the West Bank: Stab!… Now, we are imposing a curfew with daggers, and in the next phase, which is, Allah willing, about to be realized, we shall not send you back to Russia, Bulgaria, the Ukraine, or Poland. We shall not send you back there. You have come here… You will get nothing in our land except for slaughtering and stabbing…

    “Oh America, oh Crusader aggressors… you have come of your own volition to be slaughtered in our land… allah has brought the Jews, His enemies and the enemies of humanity, who have destroyed our homes in Syria, Iraq, Egypt and everywhere…

    “Form stabbing squads. We don’t want just a single stabber… Some should restrain the victim, while others attack him with axes and butcher knives. Attack them in groups and cut them into body parts.”

    • Replies: @guest
    , @Jonathan Revusky
  14. Anon7 says:
    @Hugo

    Actually, this cleric specifically mentions Americans. Check the video in my other post:

    “Oh America, oh Crusader aggressors… you have come of your own volition to be slaughtered in our land…”

    • Replies: @Jus' Sayin'...
  15. TheJester says:

    This article is Jewish propaganda … Jewish trolling. It does not meet the usually high standards of the Unz Review. Why is it here? Let’s hope it is because Ron Unz is serous about bringing widely diverse opinions (and in this case prejudices) to his blog. So, let’s honor its presence by refusing rational comment because there can be none.

    • Replies: @SFG
  16. Gene Su says:

    I noticed another, probably more significant side of taqiyya during my college years in New York City.

    I think a lot of Muslims do genuinely believe …
    that Christians are violent, demonic oppressors;
    that the Crusades were a concerted attempt to destroy the Muslim world in genocide;
    that Christian navies were engaged in piracy against Muslim populaces;
    that all Muslim pirates were simply besieged defenders of Muslim lands;
    that all Muslim terrorism is simply a defensive reaction against Christian imperialism;
    that there are hidden Christian and Jewish conspiracies to destroy Dar – al – Islam;
    that America swindles the Gulf states out of their oil;
    that the Ottomans were noble warriors settling in impoverished, dysfunctional Byzantine lands.

    I think this racist, distorted view of history and current affairs is encouraged by Muslim elites. Many of them seem to be masters of propaganda. I think the prophet Muhammad once said it was OK to lie to another Muslim to stabilize peace within the Muslim domain. Can anyone back me up on that?

  17. iffen says:
    @JustJeff

    Quit trying to be open minded and fair about this conflict, Jeff. Pick a side.

    Besides, they were there first and if you don’t believe that then just read their book it explains the whole of why they were there first and are in the right now.

  18. iffen says:

    Ilana Mercer

    If you are successful in getting the cycle-of-violence crap into the trashcan will you please turn your attention to ending the use of the lamentative “senseless violence” crap.

  19. I think it would be helpful for some people to calm down and read the entire article.

    Alas, Israelis seldom extend us the sympathy Americans so dearly deserve. The Muhammadan menace in the U.S. is, by default, downplayed when it’s portrayed by Israelis as part-and-parcel of the cross borne by a multicultural, multiethnic democracy: The U.S.

    The largely homogeneous Jewish State is said to be entitled to live free of the Muhammadan menace. Not so our Anglo-American Christian civilization.

    Let right-minded Americans remind their Israeli friends, however, that America was not multiethnic and multireligious by birth. Rather, the America we love and need every bit as Israelis love and need Israel has become a balkanized, multiethnic toilet by political design, by force.

    This is no way to live. Not for Americans; not for Israelis.

    Ms Mercer has written before in opposition to liberal Jewish positions about immigration. Her “Into the Cannibal’s Pot” is a warning to Americans based on what has happened in her native South Africa.

    To me, the thrust of the article is about assigning nobility to the “oppressed”. Regardless of one’s position on the Jewish State, the “Muhammadans” have been getting a lot of that treatment in the press – a serious error IMO. As is said at the website “Gates of Vienna”, “We are in a new phase of a very old war.”

    • Replies: @guest
    , @Quercusalba
  20. Sherman says:

    I would like to thank Ms Mercer for an excellent article and I would like to express my shock that a pro-Israel piece made its way to Unz.

    There is a reason the Palestinians have committed such heinous acts of violence against Israelis.

    Israel is a prosperous, powerful and successful democracy.

    The Palestinians, on the other hand, live in a primitive world and are brutally oppressed by their so-called leaders. Their poverty and misery are fueled by the fact that they have an explosive and out of control birth rate.

    They look over their shoulders and see how the rest of the Arab world is one big basket case.

    It’s no wonder they are lashing out at Israelis.

  21. This is a contest between civilization and its opposite on the Palestinian side. There will never be peace while any significant number of Palestinian Moslems have access to Jews.

    • Replies: @Thea
    , @Vendetta
  22. @Sherman

    I am shocked to see an ignorant zionist pro Israel racist comment has been posted on Unz.
    I am shocked to see the biased colonist thieves who have NO connection to Palestine and have stolen the land of Palestinians using terrorism and have committed crimes against humanity numerous times with help of criminal West think they can fool the world to keep the stolen land of Palestine. You will be defeated and be forced out of the stolen land of Palestine back to where you came from, around the black sea. Down with zionism and its stooges.

    • Replies: @Sherman
    , @Quartermaster
    , @Clyde
  23. @Anon7

    The cleric is right about that. If the USA hadn’t chosen to get involved in this Semitic ritual of mutual self-slaughter we wouldn’t be pouring trillions of wasted dollars and the blood of thousands of our finest young men and women into the sands inhabited by these insane Jews and Arabs and the followers of their weird cults. Wilson first stuck us to this tar baby in WW I by implicitly aligning the US with the delusional Balfour Agreement and the insane colonial ambitions of France and England as codified in the Sykes-Picot Treaty; both fait accomplis, created without the knowledge or input of the USA and its Congress. Truman attached us hands, feet, and hips with his support for carving a Jewish State from the Palestinian Mandate and displacing the original inhabitants with millions of imported, European Jews who were unceremoniously dumped into this newly re-stolen and utterly alien land. Subsequent US involvement has not improved things for us, the aborigines, or the alien Jews who along with us are currently sowing a harvest of hatred that will be reaped when demography eventually settles the issue for once and all.

    • Agree: Vendetta
  24. @Sherman

    It’s no wonder they are lashing out at Israelis.

    Don’t be silly, Jews were only tolerated as Dhimmis in the Middle East before Israel existed and any attempt to rise above that status was not tolerated. This can only end in a war of annihilation that will either see the Jews expelled from the Middle East (bar a few dhimmis) or the Muslim population reduced to a fraction of its present level.

    For Islam to accept a Jewish state in its midst would mean the repudiation of Muhammad’s message. That ain’t happenin’. The Muslims will continue to push the Jews until their backs are against the wall – then things will get interesting.

    • Replies: @Wally
  25. Thea says:

    According to the Bible, when Joshua lead the conquest of the Jews into Israel, they committed what we would consider genocide.

    In your article you use this thousands of years old tradition to justify Jewish rule since 1948. But there were older races that also had a claim.

    Whomever can claim that land by force is who will have it. If you want to believe it Jewish by divine decree you must accept the slaughter the ancient Jews inflicted on those ancient Caananites

    • Replies: @another fred
  26. @Thea

    As Garrett Hardin said, we are all descended from thieves. And as Robinson Jeffers said:

    Reason will not decide at last; the sword will decide.

    http://www.poemhunter.com/best-poems/robinson-jeffers/contemplation-of-the-sword/

    • Replies: @Thea
  27. @No Second Israel

    When you’re able to rise from your fainting couch and fully recover from the vapors, you might want to do some, you know, actual research in history, rather than just going to stormfront for your information. Both archeology and history pretty much debunk your ravings about Israel having no connection to what the Romans renamed as “Palestine.” Stooges, as you’ve demonstrated, have little connection to reality.

  28. Biff says:

    The chick picks a side. I would sooner saw my own head off before I would do something similar, but it looks good on her.

    If you had the power to make a change, would you?

    Personally I wouldn’t touch the place with a 30,000 foot pole. I think they are getting along just fine – the bloodshed is quite revealing.

  29. Thea says:
    @The Grate Deign

    They seemed to get along just fine before 1948.

    • Replies: @iffen
  30. Vendetta says:

    This all could have been solved 60 years ago if we’d taken a Massachussetts-sized chunk of land somewhere out in Oregon or California or something and set it aside to be either a Jewish state in the U.S. or an independent one.

    • Replies: @iffen
    , @Wally
    , @Thea
  31. Tick Tock says:

    Why it this crap being published at UNZ??????????????

    The most pathetic don’t blame the JEWZZZZZZZ for anything piece every.

  32. iffen says:
    @Thea

    Look. We are trying to get rid of a cycle here, not come up with different start dates.

    • Replies: @Thea
  33. Wally says: • Website
    @Anonymous

    And are the American Indians who killed European settlers considered terrorists?

    • Replies: @another fred
  34. joe webb says:

    the Dick Gregory bit of 40 years ago….you wanna know why us niggers do so much cuttin’?…cuz we ain’t got no guns.

    Times change. The Palestinians ain’t got no guns, no second amendment for A-rabs.

    So you wanna know why Palestinians do so much stabbing’? cuz the Jews stole their country in 48 and 67. End of story.

    Cut the crap of the boo-hoo, boo-hoo.

    Like other animals we fight over territory. Jews expect everybody to kiss their collective asses.

    Fuc em. ….Joe Webb

  35. iffen says:
    @Vendetta

    That’s crazy. Would want the entire US and all of its military power under the full and unbridled control of the State of Israel? Oh! Wait a minute!!!!!

    • Replies: @Vendetta
  36. Wally says: • Website
    @Vendetta

    Jewish states already existed …. New York, Hollywood.

  37. The Khazar land thieves should fuck off back to Eastern Europe.

  38. Wally says: • Website
    @another fred

    “The Muslims will continue to push the Jews until their backs are against the wall – then things will get interesting.”

    Right.

    Then the crazed Zionist Jews will go nuclear and the fallout from their own weapons will decimate Jews.

    Then the Islamic countries will release their chemical, biological weapons on “that shitty little country”.

    • Replies: @another fred
  39. @Wally

    And are the American Indians who killed European settlers considered terrorists?

    They were by the settlers.

    • Replies: @Wally
  40. Ilana Mercer is a writer, born in South Africa to Rabbi Ben Isaacson and raised in Israel, where the family decided to move after Rabbi Ben Isaacson’s anti-apartheid preaching and activism led to their harassment by South African security forces. Wikipedia

    A Zionist Randroid? I had to check her out. Turns out she is a hot Zionist Randroid. Her daddy was anti-apartheid in South Africa. It got him in trouble so he moves to apartheid Israel? I get the impression that she writes because she is a writer. Not because she has anything to say.

    • Replies: @SFG
  41. @Wally

    Then the crazed Zionist Jews will go nuclear…

    While I think the Zionists were and are naive about the consequences of the establishment of Israel, I think they are no more “crazed” than the mass of humanity. Given that they were determined to establish Israel they have gone about it pretty rationally.

    One argument of theirs that I find quite sensible is that it is silly to imagine/argue that the Middle East would be in peace if Israel were to vanish.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  42. Vendetta says:
    @iffen

    Wouldn’t be any worse than it is now, and there wouldn’t be an Arab-Israeli conflict.

    Besides, they might have turned out to be a major anti-immigration lobby once the Mexicans started turning up en masse.

  43. Vendetta says:
    @The Grate Deign

    Then the Jews picked the wrong neighborhood to gentrify.

    • Replies: @The Grate Deign
  44. Thea says:
    @Vendetta

    This is essentially what the Arabs asked them to instead of creating a Jewish state in the Middle East, they wanted one in central Europe. Talks with Roosevelt and other Middle East countries centered on “why, if the Germans tried to kills the Jews, should the Palestinians suffer? How about making part of Germany a new Israel?”

    • Replies: @Vendetta
  45. guest says:
    @Anon7

    Though stabbing random Israelis is terrorism, and stupid, I’m at a loss as to why we should care. Same thing with ISIS beheading or burning people. It’s barbaric, yes. But people seem to think that very barbarism somehow makes it worse. As if what the U.S. and Israel do, with their modern weaponry, is better because…I don’t know. Certainly we kill more innocents and cause more damage, whatever else we do.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Revusky
  46. guest says:
    @another fred

    The Muhammadans get very little of such treatment in our press, in fact. I couldn’t tell at first whom the acronym MOPE was supposed to refer to, because if any people are more constantly presented as victims in our MSM than the Jews I’ll be a monkey’s uncle. Obama’s moral equivocation is pro forma at best. The Palestinian cause hasn’t been championed half as proudly, in my experience, as that of the blip on the screen of history that was the plight of Muslims in the Kosovo War, for instance, or that of the poor, pitiful Kurds. This despite the Palestinians’ incessant presence in the news for decades.

    The “Muhammad menace” she mentions isn’t downplayed. It barely exists, in my opinion, outside of the occasional big event. And since the Big, Big Event of 9/11 has dominated the MSM for over a decade, what is she complaining about? Not categorizing Ft. Hood as part of a global jihadist conspiracy?

    • Replies: @Hugo
  47. Thea says:
    @iffen

    ok, sure we’d all like to end the bloodshed there. This could possibly happen if you get a powerful enough Neutral army to segregate the two sides. So we can ask North Korea and Myanmar .

    • Replies: @iffen
  48. Clyde says:
    @Jonathan Revusky

    Ron Paul’s most enduring legacy was popularizing the phrase “false flag” among his stupid acolytes.

  49. Clyde says:
    @No Second Israel

    Islam has been stealing land and killing non-Muslims for the last 1400 years ever since warlord Muhammad rode out of Medina. Islam has been the world’s strongest-most enduring imperialistic force for centuries. So of course the Muslims are going to lie and go crazy when some Jews (Israel) take back some of this conquered territory. One typical death toll was 80 million Hindus killed when Muslims invaded India over the course of a few centuries. Muslims also destroyed every Hindu shrine and temple they could find.

    Islam’s present tussle w the Jews is just a continuation of its blood drenched history. Thankfully they are too preoccupied offing each other (Sunni v Shiite) at the moment…Then flooding into Europe from their failed nations. Syria, Libya etc.

    • Replies: @Hugo
  50. Serious question:

    After the war, and Jews were given their own land (Israel) was Palestine there?
    Did the global “powers that be” really wrap Israel around a muslim nation ?,
    Or did Palestine try to evolve as a nation after Israels formation ?

    Please no: Palestine has been around thousands of years…..yadda yadda.

    • Replies: @Thea
    , @another fred
    , @guest
  51. Renoman says:

    I think it is fair to say that the only people more distrusted and universally hated than the Arabs are the Jews so for the vast majority it’s just a giant “Who Cares”?
    Personally I don’t hate anyone except assholes and they of course come in all colors and religions, I’m just stating the facts as I see them.

  52. Avery says:
    @Mark Green

    {How did an Israeli propagandist worm her way onto this site?}

    Not my issue here: am neither Jewish, nor Israeli, nor Palestinian.

    But maybe you should look at this as UNZ.com giving you the opportunity to debunk Ms. MERCER and her advocacy.
    Your chance to convince neutral observers and 3rd parties of how wrong she is.
    In the other forums you mentioned, your comment or those critical of an author advocating for Israel would never see the light of day.

    So say thanks to UNZ.com.

    • Replies: @Hugo
  53. Dr. Doom says:

    It really amazes me that people like the Jews who claim to be smart would believe they would ever be welcomed into Islam. The idea that a Jewish State could rule Jerusalem the third Holiest City in Islam is completely absurd. There was this over a century long conflict called the Crusades in which Every Army in Europe sent soldiers to claim the birthplace of Jesus. After slaughtering countless Islamic Jihadists and sustaining heavy casualties themselves they were finally forced to withdraw. When Muslims say they will push you into the sea, they’re not kidding. No amount of casualties will ever stop their Jihad to get Jerusalem for Muhammed.

    • Replies: @Karl
  54. Hugo says:
    @Stephen R. Diamond

    And this is surprising? A NeoCohen lurks within many of Mercers ilk.

  55. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Mark Green

    you wrote a far better article than the clueless person who wrote the first one

  56. Thea says:
    @boogerbently

    The Palestinian identity began to coalesce in opposition to 19th Century Ottoman policies. The founding of the state Israel lit a spark and caused this nationalism to really solidify an identifiable group.

    Genetically they are just the descendants of long time locals plus frequent new invaders.

    I’m trying to be as objective as possible. Neither group has more or less claim to that land unless one invokes divine providence.

  57. unit472 says:

    Palestinians in the middle east are not a whole lot different than the blacks in Baltimore or Ferguson, a permanent welfare class. When they come to the US they do ‘outperform’ our underclass citizenry by opening up ghetto liquor stores in our Baltimores and Fergusons that are often little more than fronts for various frauds.

  58. @boogerbently

    After WWII the UN proposed to divide the British mandate territories between the Jews and Arabs based on population density in areas of the mandate at the time. The proposed settlement would have resulted in a divided patchwork with Jews controlling only a small portion of the land, but they agreed to it, while the Arab states did not and attacked. The Jews successfully repulsed the Arabs and militarily controlled far more land than the UN proposed (essentially the ’67 borders).

    Many of the Arabs (not all of whom were Muslim) who had lived in the area now controlled by Israel fled and were housed in refugee camps in Gaza, the West Bank (controlled by Jordan), Lebanon, and Egypt. Most Arabs who had not fled became citizens of the Jewish State where many of them claim to be “second class”.

    Because hostilities continued for many years the Israelis denied refugees the “right of return” and most Palestinians were not interested in a partial state – they wanted all of it “from the River to the Sea”. Israel conquered even more territory in ’73 and (IMO) it began to dawn on many (by no means all) Palestinians that they needed to cut the best deal they could get. Most Israelis consider this desire on the part of the Palestinians for a state to be simply a tactic towards the long range goal of the end of the Jewish State (I think they are right).

    That’s a short version of a long complicated subject. As I said above, I expect it to end in a war of annihilation, but if one were to attempt to arrive in some other way I think the following words from Garrett Hardin are relevant:

    Clearly, the concept of pure justice produces an infinite regression to absurdity. Centuries ago, wise men invented statutes of limitations to justify the rejection of such pure justice, in the interest of preventing continual disorder. The law zealously defends property rights, but only relatively recent property rights. Drawing a line after an arbitrary time has elapsed may be unjust, but the alternatives are worse.

    We are all the descendants of thieves, and the world’s resources are inequitably distributed. But we must begin the journey to tomorrow from the point where we are today. We cannot remake the past.

  59. @Vendetta

    It is certainly a difficult one. I do not envy their position.

    However, you will find similar conflict underway anywhere you have Moslems. The people killed in the (Moslem) civil war in Syria outnumber all the dead on both sides of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict since 1948. Furthermore, Moslems are at war with non-Moslem societies virtually everywhere the situation exists — all across Africa, the Middle East, Russia, India, and China.

    • Replies: @Lion of Zion
  60. mad1 says:

    In our bewildering world there are only a few things an average guy like me can do to make real changes, if you are anti-war you can deny the war machine your children. If Zionists like Ilana bother you as much as she does me there is one thing you can do. Get behind the BDS movement, educate yourself on what Corporations (and CEO’s) are big supporters of Israel.
    Pay attention to where you spend your money, that is their greatest fear, they know what finally brought down South Africa.

  61. @Astuteobservor II

    the only thing palestinians can do? get better weapons. small arms does jack shit vs a modern army backed by the only super power on earth atm.

    The only thing Palestinians can do is get better weapons?!? How about live a life of peace? Or, if the Jews are so terrible, move to one of the many other Islamic countries in the area. The Jews don’t have other Jewish countries to go to.

    • Replies: @Vendetta
  62. @Mark Green

    How did an Israeli propagandist worm her way onto this site?

    I don’t see what makes Mercer’s writing propaganda any more than any other political writing backing a position.

    Is an op-ed by Charles Krauthammer coming next?

    Ilana Mercer is a devoted Krauthammer basher. I don’t know Krauthammer well enough, although I’m enjoying his book so far.

    Sadly, innocent people are dying on both sides. But it is the Palestinians who are doing most of the suffering and most of the dying.

    Palestinians also have the easiest exit route. There are many, many Islamic nations with the same ethnicity as the Palestinians that Palestinians can live in away from Jewish people.

  63. Hugo says:
    @Clyde

    Yawn. I almost made it past the first paragraph but, realised that all you’ve wrote is more regurgitated Zionist bs so you can convince more naive gentiles to die in Israel’s wars.

    You guys use the ‘evil Muslim’ narrative to deflect attention from the fact that Israel has been similar in its actions towards all non Jews. Should we poll the hundreds of thousands of Palestinian Christians in South America who were expelled from their land by Israel if they think this is just Islam vs . Jews?

    • Replies: @Sherman
  64. Hugo says:
    @Avery

    He should thanks for his basic right which is free speech? Has it come to that?

    Or should we just be more critical of the other sites that censor all dissent?

    • Replies: @Avery
  65. Hugo says:
    @guest

    Whoa friend. Slow down with the logic. Don’t you know logic should never eneter the equation when discussing the middle east?

  66. guest says:
    @boogerbently

    There was no formal Palestinian nation, but a series of ad hoc governments since the collapse of the Ottomans after WWI. The Jews weren’t given Israel after WWII, exactly. They kept moving in and fighting their neighbors for dominance against the wishes of various Powers That Were, before eventually being recognized, subsidized, and protected from the outside.

  67. iffen says:
    @Thea

    My point was that she disapproves of the description, “cycle-of-violence.” However, she carefully selects her starting point. That’s okay with me, it’s her polemic.

  68. Vendetta says:
    @Massimo Heitor

    They can move to America or Europe. On the other hand, no one wants Palestinians. Not even the other Arabs. That was real shitty of them fifty years ago, but you can hardly blame them for it now. Israel and Hamas have turned the Gaza Strip into one big insane asylum.

    I think it’d be a funny experiment to take Gaza’s population and ship it all to Australia. See if they can replicate the rabbit problem on a bigger scale. And then while they’re at it, all the Jews can move to Alaska and show us how to turn the Arctic green.

    • Replies: @Massimo Heitor
  69. Vendetta says:
    @Thea

    Germany would have been a bad idea and no Jew would have felt safe doing it. America would have been better. Lot of surplus land, no history of pogroms or holocausts, not bombed to pieces like Europe was.

  70. Vendetta says:
    @Giuseppe

    Hear, hear. To Hell with Israel and Hamas.

  71. Wally says: • Website
    @another fred

    You dodged the question, which was:

    “And are the American Indians who killed European settlers considered terrorists?”

    Are, Fred, are.

    Now think Israeli “settlers” / colonists and the indigenous Palestinians.

    • Replies: @another fred
  72. Sam Shama says:
    @Jonathan Revusky

    For the first time I write (with apologies to Ilana, Ron Unz and other readership) I say to you Jonathan Revusky: Fuck off moron!

    • Replies: @mad1
  73. Avery says:
    @Hugo

    Hugo:

    Neither he, nor you, nor I have a so-called “basic right which is free speech” on a private site such as UNZ.com.

    Let me emphasize: nobody, but nobody, has any rights here other than the owner(s).
    I run into this all the time all over the blogosphere: people complaining that when their posts are flushed, they are being “censored”.
    Constitutional prohibition against censorship only applies to the Government.

    A private site can flush all of one’s posts, most, or some.
    For some reason or other, or no reason at all.
    For example: they don’t like you (or me).
    It’s 100% their call.
    Their site, their rules.

    Some sites flush most of my posts and some flush just an occasional one, and post most.
    I don’t complain: I have no right to.
    I am not paying for this: Ron Unz is paying.
    He is providing a free platform for freeloaders like me to share my views with a wide audience.

    I say thanks.

    • Replies: @Hugo
  74. mad1 says:
    @Sam Shama

    The technique certainly predates the Mossad and likely the King David Hotel too. History is such a bitch.

  75. Sherman says:
    @Hugo

    The Arab Christian communities from Palestine living in South America predate the establishment of Israel in 1948.

    There were large numbers of Arab Christians from Palestine who voluntarily emigrated to South America for reasons that had nothing to do with Jews or Zionism. This mirrored a large emigration of Arab Christians from Syria and Lebanon.

    They were never refugees and they were never “expelled from their land” you idiot.

    • Replies: @Hugo
  76. @another fred

    Curious Mercer’s use of this phrase “OUR (my emphasis) anglo American Christian civilization”. I smell the stench of obsequiousness in that. Her ethnicity is …..?

    And thanks to Ron unz for giving us the metaphorical opportunity to jump straight down her throat.

  77. Sam Shama says:
    @mad1

    Certainly. As do the general conditions of insanity and stupidity

  78. @Wally

    You dodged the question,

    Not so much dodged as just trying to throw off a smart-ass quip. I see it didn’t go over.

    I don’t really give much thought to the terrorist label, nor to the “war crimes” label. War is a savage, ugly business that should be avoided whenever possible and fought with all available means when necessary.

    Modern conventions about “civilized war” don’t mean much to me, but I understand that the definition of “terror” is that this is when one attacks non-combatants to apply political pressure. I don’t think the Indians had any political goals, so no, they were not terrorists, they were just killing enemies.

    That whole argument is like the ones you see over the definition of “war”, which is another one that does not interest me.

    • Replies: @Vendetta
  79. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Someone must have sounded the alarm as the flood of posts shilling Isreal by Hasbara suddenly emergd.

  80. Vendetta says:
    @another fred

    Driving white settlers off the frontier is a political goal.

    • Replies: @Existential Confusion
  81. @guest

    I sat down and watched an ISIS beheading video finally. Totally fake Al-CIA-duh production. These are psy ops designed to demonize, dehumanize a certain set of people.

  82. @Anon7

    The video looks totally fake to me. Like something out of a Hollywood B film. The “cleric” is probably just an actor. If he actually is an imam, he’s a classic agent provocateur on the Mossad payroll.

  83. @mad1

    Note how this Shama asshole just insults me, but does not even bother to indignantly deny that the Mossad does run all these false flag terrorism operations. He expresses anger at me for mentioning it, but does not deny what I say…

    • Replies: @mad1
    , @Sam Shama
  84. @mad1

    False flag attacks go way back in history, predate the Mossad, but the Mossad are currently the world’s greatest practitioners.

    • Replies: @mad1
    , @Art
  85. […]  “Cut the Cycle-of-Violence Crap” and “College Legally Prohibited From Changing Name to […]

  86. mad1 says:
    @Jonathan Revusky

    Jonathan,

    Learn to appreciate hasbara such as Ilana and especially Sam (who can’t control his temper) they show Americans the true face of Zionism and perhaps if we are lucky enough people will wake up and we will not suffer the fate Benjamin Freedman warned us of 60 years ago.

    • Replies: @Hugo
  87. mad1 says:
    @Jonathan Revusky

    Read Joseph Atwill and discover the most successful one of all time.

  88. Sam Shama says:
    @Jonathan Revusky

    You ought to reflect on your own unmitigated display of abusive language. Its all available in the comments history. As another commenter observed, be ready to take it when you dish it out.

    Finally, I would say that the onus of proving the stupid assertion that Mossad is behind the stabbings is entirely on you.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Revusky
  89. Hugo says:
    @Sherman

    Really? Should I ask my neighbours parents who were expelled from their home by Jewish terrorists after 1948 and fled to Chile only having to then flee Chile during Pinochets time? Oh that’s right. It never happened did it Newton? You Zionists spread so much lies, you can’t keep track of your lies. Israel both inderectly and directly obliterated the Christian Palestinian community.

  90. Hugo says:
    @mad1

    Bingo. Very well said. Watch how Israelis treat you the moment you disagree with them. Just ask Folke Bernadotte’s family.

  91. Hugo says:
    @Avery

    Totally agree that he can flush my comments as its his site but, I am not grateful for the right to voice my opinion. Instead I criticise those sites that don’t have the balls to allow dissent. As an example, I think Krauthammer is piece of turd but, I don’t want him censored. Let his lunacy be heard and debated and he shouldn’t have to thankful for that.

  92. It’s odd, but in my 40s I’ve been getting more and more skeptical about Israel.

    Growing up in the 80s I absorbed the idea that Israel was on our side in the Cold War, was in a larger sense part of our civilization, and was a country like European or North American countries with similar laws and institutions. And that they were broadly in the right on their own quarrels. So that’s where I started from.

    Some of that still strikes me as true enough. In the Cold War they were on their own side, a position I can hardly condemn, but often as not their interests coincided with ours, except when they didn’t. I can live with that sort of dynamic. Israel is part of our civilization to a point. Less than Europe or North America, but perhaps more than adoptees like Japan or the ROK. Arguably to the same degree as sort of Europeanized places like some of Latin America. But comparable to the more Europeanish ones. Israel’s founders took a lot of Europe with them. They seem to be drifting toward being less European over time. It’s to be expected. They’re in the Middle East, and they have the Middle East’s quarrels and challenges. They’re one of them. They are still more like a Western country in culture, law and practice than anywhere else in the region. We’d have similar policies in a similar position. America might have to turn the SW into a walled zone at some point. So it goes.

    If they are colonialists from Europe in the Middle East, as many Pals see them, so what? My country was once part of an empire and many of my kin tried on places like South Africa or Rhodesia. These were ultimately major life choice boners, but what can you do? The ones who came to Canada or went to Australia chose more wisely. America, like these, is 100% colonized land as well. Who are we to get more than pro forma huffy over colonialism?

    And beyond that, if the Arabs of Palestine had thought and acted as a Palestinian people while Jordan was ruling the West Bank as occupier, they might have found their Arab brethren as unsympathetic to them as they proved to be in the early 1970s in Black September. Or they might have got the whole lot as a Palestinian state. But they didn’t start being all nationalistic and less pan-Arabist until the Israelis took the land in battle and made the sides less confusing. Suddenly they were a Palestinian nation living in occupied territory, when they had not been the week before.

    [Strictly speaking, the West Bank was never allocated and so is disputed remnant of the Mandate. It was never a Palestinian state that was occupied, nor legally Jordanian territory now occupied by Israel. The Israelis are right on that. The Jordanian presence was arguably the illegal occupation of unallocated Palestine Mandate soil. The UN doesn’t get to redefine reality or history.]

    In the final analysis, if the Palestinians want a viable state they should put their elite physicists to work, invent a time machine, and go back and accept the 1948 plan instead of backing the Arab powers in their attempt to render the place Jew-free and annex it to Greater Syria or whatever they were trying to do. Or they could accept the even better Peel commission scheme of the 1930s. The former would have gotten them an equitable 50-50 share, with plenty of good territory, as much as the Jews. The earlier scheme would have given them the lion’s share. They weren’t being asked to give up the sacred soil of their nation. They hadn’t called themselves one for the previous millennium, content to be subjects of the Egyptians or the Ottomans, whose nearly empty province it had been when hardly any of the ancestors of modern Palestinians had yet settled in it. [Oddly, that is kind of another analogy to other times and places. Mexicans, in small numbers, had beat Americans to the SW not so long before. Bantus had beat Boers to South Africa by centuries but they weren’t native either, and the true natives were still around. Everybody’s a colonialist.]

    Sadly, too late. Their leaders in those times were all or nothing people and so they got nothing. Too bad.

    But I digress. All that mainly to show I don’t care about the Palestinians. They are hopeless, can’t even run elections consistently, and can’t seem to build anything above a case of hemorrhoids. And have yet to figure out the role of their own ancestors’ stupidity in their eventual fate. But if they are a people in their own minds, and want to fight their enemies, good luck to them. In their place we all might act similarly. Even down to targeting civilians. We’ve done that. But I’m not obliged to care or help. It’s no cause of mine.

    Not to forget that back in the day, the Palestinians’ leaders decided, for perfectly sound strategic reasons, that it was in their interest to take the Russians’ money and make common cause with terrorists who were blowing up things in Europe and the UK. I’d be willing to forgive that on realist grounds if I thought the West had any real stake in the Palestinians’ national future. But I don’t care about their future.

    On the other hand, I have grown just as tired of Israel’s assumptions: that it is owed everything, that its survival is the duty of the US and the West however many billions it takes, and that ultimately every criticism of its policy is Hitlerism. No thanks.

    And, of course, when it was their turn they also used every violent means to secure themselves their state in what is now Israel. They killed Arabs in battle, ethnically cleansed neighbourhoods and villages, and blew up civilians. They even staged attacks of terror on their enemies overseas [Notably, British officials in Rome.] Granted, most of the terrorist stuff was on a smaller scale and rarer, but then it was what the times called for.

    • Agree: Vendetta
    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  93. SFG says:
    @Stephen R. Diamond

    I don’t know. We haven’t seen her go neocon on, say, immigration.

    I’d expect a reasonably nationalistic Jew to be at least moderately pro-Israel. I don’t think Israel’s interests are diametrically opposed to the USA’s in the way that, say, Russia or China’s are as rival great powers, although I do think their lobby’s gotten a little too powerful as of late.

  94. @random observer

    if you think colonialism is a-ok in 21st century, then there is nothing more to talk about 🙂

    both sides should just prepare their weapons.

  95. SFG says:
    @WorkingClass

    Maybe she saw what happened to South Africa and decided to switch sides? You’re not required by any law to take the same ideological position as your parents, especially if you feel events have proven them wrong. Look at Ronald Reagan’s liberal son…

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  96. SFG says:
    @TheJester

    Unz seems big on excluded perspectives. So if he found the only pro-Israel immigration-restrictionist on the Web, I can’t blame him for grabbing her.

  97. Avery says:

    {I don’t think Israel’s interests are diametrically opposed to the USA’s in the way that, say, Russia or China’s are as rival great powers,}

    Not true: Israel’s interests are diametrically opposed to US interests in Middle East.
    What kind of “non-diametrically” opposed state, would inject a very destructive spy in US that caused very serious damage to US interests (Pollard).
    What kind of “non-diametrically” opposed state would attack a US intelligence ship, USS Liberty, and deliberately kill 34 Americans and wound 171.

    As to Russia and China.
    Nether Russia nor China have hundreds of military bases all over the world.
    Neither one has encircled US with hostile client states and military bases.
    Both Russia and China mind their own business in their own neighborhood.

    No reason to waste – waste – American blood and treasure to go chasing….monsters.

    [America does not go abroad in search of monsters to destroy. She is the well-wisher to freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own. John Quincy Adams US diplomat & politician (1767 – 1848)]

    • Agree: Orville H. Larson
    • Replies: @SFG
  98. @Vendetta

    They can move to America or Europe. On the other hand, no one wants Palestinians. Not even the other Arabs. That was real shitty of them fifty years ago, but you can hardly blame them for it now.

    The people of Jordan are basically identical to the Sunni Muslim “Palestians”. They have their own nation. And their are many other nations on desirable land with nearly similar ethnic/religious/linguistic composition. I understand Jordan doesn’t want to allow more Sunni Muslims that are literally ethnically, religiously, and linguistically identical to them to enter their nation. Why is the problem of US or Europe or the tiny group of Jews in the middle east?

  99. Any country that has, as its primary foreign policy goal, the subvention of the US political system is an enemy of the American people.

    • Replies: @Lion of Zion
  100. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @SFG

    or maybe growing up in apartheid Israel is what has shaped her thinking.

  101. Karl says:
    @Mark Green

    >> What should Israel’s precise borders be?

    Jabotinsky answered that in the early 1920s: River to the Sea; Eilat to Metulla.

    That is slightly less than 1/8 of the land area of Florida.

  102. Karl says:
    @Dr. Doom

    >> When Muslims say they will push you into the sea, they’re not kidding. No amount of casualties will ever stop their Jihad to get Jerusalem for Muhammed.

    Tell that to the graveyards full of Muslim soldiers who thought they could hold al-Andalus forever.

    • Replies: @Guy
  103. Anonymous • Disclaimer says: • Website
    @Drapetomaniac

    This is why ethnic politics is so utterly boring. We never did nuffin, it was all the other side’s fault. 100%. The writer sounds exactly like a Serb during the break up of Yugoslavia (or a Bosnian or Croat for that matter). He sounds like both a Protestant and a Catholic during the troubles. He sounds like a Hutu and a Tutsi. In fact, he even sounds like a hot headed Palestinian.

    • Replies: @Existential Confusion
  104. Guy says:
    @Karl

    Or to the dead nogai, tatars, crimeans, and caucasians who thought they could fight the russians.

  105. @Sam Shama

    You ought to reflect on your own unmitigated display of abusive language.

    Is this what you are reduced to now? You never try to debate me factually or logically on anything nowadays. After the kind of ass whipping I administered to you, for example detailed here:

    http://www.unz.com/tsaker/a-tale-of-two-world-orders/#comment-1016520

    I guess that’s all you can do. It’s just these kinds of borderline slanderous stuff like “Have you taken your meds lately” and all this. Or it’s this kind of whining about how shocked you are at my terribly abusive language…. “oy vey, I never heard such things in my blessed life…” this is pretty pathetic, isn’t it? It seems so prissy, so…. well… unmanly… well, I’ll say it… it’s kinda sissy really…. faggotty….

    Finally, I would say that the onus of proving the stupid assertion that Mossad is behind the stabbings is entirely on you.

    And then you go back to just lying.

    Of course, I never asserted that Mossad was behind these stabbings. I simply mentioned their history of staging false flags. I don’t know specifically about all the stabbings, though obviously, I was insinuating that it would hardly surprise me, given the history here that much of this is staged or agent provocateur type stuff. In my view, the people who don’t at least suspect this, it’s because they don’t know the history of these kinds of false flag events.

    My comment is here: http://www.unz.com/imercer/cut-the-cycle-of-violence-crap/#comment-1199230 and I specifically said:

    I wonder… How many of the purported victims of “Islamist terrorism” are actually the victims of false flag attacks, psy-ops, perpetrated by Mossad?

    I just said “I wonder” about how much of the purported “Islamist terrorism” is actually false flags. I did not say that I knew specifically about any of these stabbings.

    So you’re lying again, Shama. This is all you can do, it seems. You go on in an endless cycle, it seems. You proffer gratuitous insults, and then you engage in sissy whining about my “nasty language” and then you fall back on telling some more lies. What pathetic assholes you guys all are.

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  106. Sam Shama says:
    @Jonathan Revusky

    I don’t know specifically about all the stabbings, though obviously, I was insinuating that it would hardly surprise me, given the history here that much of this is staged or agent provocateur type stuff. In my view, the people who don’t at least suspect this, it’s because they don’t know the history of these kinds of false flag events.
    ……

    I just said “I wonder” about how much of the purported “Islamist terrorism” is actually false flags. I did not say that I knew specifically about any of these stabbings.

    Are you in good hands there Revusky?

    I do hope, as you wander in circles, “wondering” about false flags, agent provocateurs and the little green men locked up in government facilities, the padding on the walls are intact and the dosages you are being administered, adequate. Furthermore, I shall inquire whether the device you are allowed for browsing is being properly monitored by the professionals at the institution.

    Good Night.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Revusky
  107. @Vendetta

    Driving white settlers off the frontier is a political goal.

    Survival was the Native American’s goal.

    • Replies: @Vendetta
  108. @Anonymous

    .

    He sounds like both a Protestant and a Catholic during the troubles. He sounds like a Hutu and a Tutsi. In fact, he even sounds like a hot headed Palestinian.

    Umm, “he,” is a she.

  109. @Sam Shama

    Are you in good hands there Revusky?

    Oh, I see. Now it’s time to cycle back to the mental health allusions. What a pathetically predictable lying scum troll bastard you are!

    I do hope, as you wander in circles, “wondering” about false flags,

    Your basic idea here that, when they report a terrorist attack and say “Group X did it”, that you have to be crazy to doubt this — this really betrays your absolute and total ignorance of history.

    There is quite an extensive literature on the various false flag events. Much of it is extremely well documented and beyond much serious dispute. Unfortunately for you, none of it has yet come out in comic book edition. (The 9/11 commission report has come out in comic book format, which must be why Shama is familiar with it. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0809057395 )

  110. SFG says:
    @Avery

    As for espionage, all countries spy on each other–that doesn’t mean their interests are opposed. The whole movement among the American Jewish community to let Pollard off is what I find disturbing.

    And the Liberty? I agree, we should have punished them at the time. But that doesn’t have anything to do with our vs. Israel’s interests now.

    Besides, I was talking about *interests*. Diametrically opposed means on the other side. A strong China means a weaker America, because we can’t all be King of the Hill. Israel’s several notches down the ladder–it’s quite possible to have a strong Israel and a strong America. They’re not *the same* as America’s interests, despite what the neocons would like you to believe, but a stronger Israel does not ipso facto mean a weaker America either.

    And bases all over the world? Yeah, I agree, we probably do spend too much on policing the world. But that doesn’t really bear on whether, say, Russia or China benefit from a weak America.

    Personally I think we ought to tell them, ‘build a wall and get out of the territories or we cut you off’. But that doesn’t mean we necessarily benefit from seeing them fail. It just means we need to quit supporting them to ridiculous degrees.

  111. L.K says:

    In an article entitled ‘Israel’s Sleeping Beauties Have Awoken From Their Deathly Silence’, which appeared at the Haaretz, Israeli jornalist Gideon Levy writes:

    “What did you think, the Palestinians would sit still indefinitely? Did you really think Israel would continue on its course and they’d just bow their heads in submission?

    Do you know many historical examples of that? Is there one example of a brutal occupation that persisted without stoking resistance? Apparently that’s what you thought, otherwise there would have been public pressure long ago to act, because who wants terror?

    But Israel slid into a deathly silence, with darkness over the abyss, and now it’s acting surprised. […]
    After all, what did it ask for but some quiet, to be left alone from the occupation to which it’s not even linked, and from the resistance that has fallen on it like a natural disaster. Sleeping beauty has awoken to the sound of stabbings and car-rammings, and through the cobwebs of sleep it’s asking: How did this happen? How can they be doing this to us again?

    You can’t blame Israelis — they were busy doing other things and knew nothing. Bar Refaeli’s wedding weighed heavily on people’s minds, as did events at the Allenby 40 nightclub. Israelis didn’t know exactly what was going on over there, beyond the dark mountains, half an hour’s drive from their homes — for the most part, they didn’t want to know.

    The media gladly succumbed to their wishes. They hid the crimes of the occupation from people’s sight — such pictures don’t buoy ratings. The image of a Palestinian as a human being doesn’t sell newspapers. The media never reported what those people go through and what they really desire. It sufficed with diversions, incitement and propaganda. That pays better.

    Politicians promised that everything would be fine, rabbis incited, settlers torched, the whole world is against us, just leave us alone. Then out of the blue those knife-wielding youngsters with murder in their eyes descended upon us. The quiet dissolved, security fizzled, businesses collapsed, dreams of jeep tours and quick vacations became uncertain.
    […]
    In the meantime, Jerusalem has become the capital of apartheid. No other city so discriminates and dispossesses or is so violent. Gun-toting Mayor Nir Barkat, who’s largely responsible for the discrimination and dispossession in his city, incites against a third of its population — an unbelievable phenomenon in its own right.

    And you thought 300,000 people would acquiesce? That they’d watch settlers invade their homes as city hall denied them minimal services amid maximal property taxes? That they’d look on while the occupier arbitrarily denied them residence status, as if they were migrants in their own city?

    That they would put up with Jewish gangs beating them up in full view of policemen and forgive? That a young man growing up in this reality — with his neighborhood a Soweto — would spend his life washing dishes and building homes for Jews with no chance of escaping his ghetto?

    Did you really think right-wing provocations on the Temple Mount would pass quietly? That the burning of the Dawabsheh family would pass with no response — and even more so the defense minister’s arrogant claims that Israel knew who the perpetrators were but wouldn’t arrest them?

    That their children would be burned helplessly with Israel not punishing anyone and they’d remain silent? That the response to all this would be more of the same: We’ll demolish, detain, dispossess, oppress, torture and kill more than ever — and (Jewish) Zion will be redeemed? Did anyone really believe that?

    Read it all @
    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article43177.htm

    • Replies: @Orville H. Larson
  112. L.K says:

    A lot of people in the West, even more so in Zamerica, fall for the crude propaganda of the Ilana mercers of this world, bc they just do not have a clue as to what really happened in Palestine.

    American jornalist and author, Alison Weir, set up an excellent website which is pack full of info;
    http://ifamericansknew.org/

    Her book is a must read;

    Here is chapter one;
    http://ifamericansknew.org/us_ints/history.html

    There is an excellent summary of what happened in Palestine at her website;

    [MORE]

    “Zionism

    In the late 1800s a group in Europe decided to colonize this land. Known as Zionists, they represented an extremist minority of the Jewish population. Their goal was to create a Jewish homeland, and they considered locations in Africa and the Americas, before settling on Palestine.[2]

    At first, this immigration created no problems. However, as more and more Zionists immigrated to Palestine – many with the express wish of taking over the land for a Jewish state – the indigenous population became increasingly alarmed. Eventually, fighting broke out, with escalating waves of violence. Hitler’s rise to power, combined with Zionist activities to sabotage efforts to place Jewish refugees in western countries[3], led to increased Jewish immigration to Palestine, and conflict grew.

    UN Partition Plan

    Finally, in 1947 the United Nations decided to intervene. However, rather than adhering to the principle of “self-determination of peoples,” in which the people themselves create their own state and system of government, the UN chose to revert to the medieval strategy whereby an outside power divides up other people’s land.

    Under considerable Zionist pressure, the UN recommended giving away 55% of Palestine to a Jewish state – despite the fact that this group represented only about 30% of the total population, and owned under 7% of the land.

    1947-1949 War

    While it is widely reported that the resulting war eventually included five Arab armies, less well known is the fact that throughout this war Zionist forces outnumbered all Arab and Palestinian combatants combined – often by a factor of two to three. Moreover, Arab armies did not invade Israel – virtually all battles were fought on land that was to have been the Palestinian state.

    Finally, it is significant to note that Arab armies entered the conflict only after Zionist forces had committed 16 massacres, including the grisly massacre of over 100 men, women, and children at Deir Yassin. Future Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin, head of one of the Jewish terrorist groups, described this as “splendid,” and stated: “As in Deir Yassin, so everywhere, we will attack and smite the enemy. God, God, Thou has chosen us for conquest.” Zionist forces committed 33 massacres altogether.[4]

    By the end of the war, Israel had conquered 78 percent of Palestine; three-quarters of a million Palestinians had been made refugees; over 500 towns and villages had been obliterated; and a new map was drawn up, in which every city, river and hillock received a new, Hebrew name, as all vestiges of the Palestinian culture were to be erased. For decades Israel denied the existence of this population, former Israeli Prime Minister Golda Meir once saying: “There were no such thing as Palestinians.”[5]

    1967 War & USS Liberty[…]”

    Continue reading at
    http://ifamericansknew.org/history/

    • Agree: Orville H. Larson
  113. Vendetta says:
    @Existential Confusion

    There’s more than one way to pursue the goal of survival and different groups followed different strategies. Some hoped to reach accomodatin, and some did indeed hope to roll back white settlement. And sometimes it was the natives who were the aggressors in particular conflicts.

  114. Fred Reed says:

    After the Liberty, why should I care?

  115. And yet these noble Israelis besieged by the barbaric Arabs are BFFs with… Saudi Arabia!

    The BBC is no friend of Israel? That’s some jaw dropping BS right there.

    And if Israel stopped the violence unilaterally, would you trust the Palestinians to follow… Hey, maybe they should test that theory out. Peace isn’t just gonna spontaneously break out from Israel retaliating disproportionately to every act of violence. Not to defend the current wave of knife attacks, but jeez, Israel as ever-the-victim? Cmon.

  116. When you number zionism as one of your hobbies, the starting point for stopping the cycle of violence might not be as obvious as it is to non-zionists.

  117. @Fred Reed

    Now, Fred, don’t be that way. Don’t you know it was all an accident?
    Our brave little ally in the Middle East accidentally preformed recon on the Liberty for several hours.
    Then five Israeli jets accidentally ran 30 sorties on the Liberty with rockets, 30mm cannon and napalm.
    Then the Israeli Navy accidentally machine gunned the life rafts and accidentally launched five German made torpedoes at the Liberty.
    Didn’t you read that? GERMAN torpedoes, so the Holocaust or something.

    How anyone could blame brave little Israel for attacking a ship flying a US flag in international waters?

  118. Art says:
    @Jonathan Revusky

    “False flag attacks go way back in history, predate the Mossad, but the Mossad are currently the world’s greatest practitioners.”

    The current major Mossad false flag operation is the notion that the sixty nation coalition is fighting ISIS. The Zionist lead US military and State Department are not fighting ISIS. That is a lie – they are NOT attacking ISIS – they containing ISIS, keeping it from taking on Saudi and Jordan.

    Russia is upsetting Little King Davie Netanyahu and his evil Mossad boys plans to install a Sunni figurehead in Syria.

    Of course the US Jew MSM blames Obama for listening to the American people’s desire for NO more ME wars. But then we all know that the US Jew cares more about Israel than about America, its people, culture, and wellbeing.

  119. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @another fred

    Yep, the level of hatred between Sunni and Shi’a, the infighting and clan fighting, all existed long before Israel.

    Most Anti-Zionists are really Jew Haters; they believe in some crazy narrative that postulates that before Zionism, the world was a happy conflict-free, banker and usury free*, wonderland of abundant peace and freedom under kindly lords and priests.

    They’ve apparently never heard of the Fuggers or Medicis and their shennanigans, neither of which were Jewish run or operated, or of Chinese or Japanese Bankers and Merchants where there was nary a Jew for a thousand miles! The endemic warfare – why else was there a fort every few miles – in the medieval era. Or of the thirty years’ war. Or the settlement of the New World. American and Spanish Settlers did not spread across both continents based on the distribution of love bombs , chorizos, and chocolate chip cookies to the American Indians.

    The best comparison for Anti-Zionism is the attitude towards Ethnic Chinese in Indonesia and Malaysia. A hardworking, smart minority dominating the majority economically due to mutual support and elevation of cultural and academic pursuits.

  120. @Fred Reed

    Do you know how many Friendly Fire incidents the US has been at fault for in the past 15 years? To say nothing of earlier wars?

    Jeez, the US just bombed a hospital in Kunduz, not because of malevolent desire, but because the super expensive boondoggle “Master Intellegence System” was on the fritz, yet again.

    The Liberty wasn’t supposed to be where it was, of course Jew Haters will always believe the worst no matter what.

    The problem with Liberty conspiracy theorists is they have no compelling motive, other than some vague claims of “Jewish Perfidity”.

    • Replies: @Chris Mallory
  121. @Bill Jones

    The Armenians, Kurds, and other groups lobby incessantly for US support. Doesn’t make them subventionists. Britain spent the 1910s and 1930s subventing the US Government for War Aid.

    • Replies: @Chris Mallory
  122. @The Grate Deign

    Shhh! Don’t repeat the demonstrable point that everywhere in the world where Muslims border non-Muslims, from East Africa to North Africa to Shikiang Province in China, to Kashmir, to Chechnya and Bosnia and the cesspit that is Albania/Kosovo, Muslims are pushing against non-Muslims. And in each place they cry “Oppression!” “Crusader!” “Kuffar!”

    Sweden and Germany offer generous job training, language instruction, etc. and instead of taking it, the Muslim immigrants generally teach their children to reject the Kuffar, take his money, and abuse him as weak – and rape his women.

  123. @Lion of Zion

    The Liberty was in international waters and flying a US flag, it was where it had every right to be.

    There are a couple of motives for the attack on the liberty by the terrorists of Tel Aviv.
    1. To hide the commission of Israeli war crimes, the execution of Egyptian POWs.
    2. To blame the Egyptians for the attack and to draw the US into the war on the side of Tel Aviv.

    This was not “friendly fire” it was a coordinated hour long attack upon a US ship in international waters. We should have carpet bombed Tel Aviv, and honestly we still should.

  124. @Lion of Zion

    We should start mass deportations of the Armenians and Kurds as well as the Israelis in the US.

  125. Avery says:

    {We should start mass deportations of the Armenians……}

    You can come to Los Angeles and personally try to deport me, Chris Mallory.
    I am Armenian.
    Make sure you have your affairs in order, because it will be a one way trip: you will spend the rest of your unnatural life in jail here in California.

  126. Svigor says:

    The article: an interesting bit of framing, sort of like when a film zooms way in to cover one tragedy, and ignore all the rest.

    Zoom the camera out; oh, look, the Israelis carpet-bombed Arab neighborhoods a few years back, killing hundreds of people. And, same thing, a few years before that.

    The body counts don’t favor the Narrative of Jewish Victimhood.

    AMERICA, TOO, HAS MET THE MOPE (MOST OPPRESSED PEOPLE EVER).

    Yes, Jews are hard to miss.

    Americans, too, endure perennial punishment by Muhammadan peaceniks.

    Flash back to July 16 of 2015.

    The murdered: Four U.S. Marines
    The murderer: Muhammad Youssef Abdulazeez, 24.
    The place: A U.S. Navy facility in Chattanooga, Tennessee.
    The occasion: The conclusion of the Ramadan.

    Likewise, the Muslim vs. American body count doesn’t exactly favor the Muslims.

    Your article takes a much better turn after that last quote. I agree with all of your subsequent sentiments, more or less, until:

    By Al Jazeera’s definition, the party that wins a fight against a Muslim is the guilty party. The Al-Jaz equation: The more fatalities suffered; the greater the innocence.

    To wit, “50 Palestinians have been killed in shootings and clashes with Israeli forces in the occupied Palestinian territories and Israel, while eight Israelis have been killed in knife and gun attacks.”

    This is how the left operates. The (selectively framed) underdog has the moral high ground; kids throwing rocks and wielding knives get more sympathy than soldiers driving tanks. At least when the former is the occupied, the colonized, and the latter is the occupier, the colonist.

    And since Israel’s BFF, diaspora Jewry, is very much the vanguard of the American left, I kinda have to applaud when Jews are hoisted by their own petards. Al Jazeera is merely turning the Jews own guns against them.

    Taqiyya vs Hasbara…a pox on both their houses?

    If all of this were going on between blacks and whites in America, American Jewry would be running around screaming with their wigs half-off and ablaze. But, since it’s Jewish tender bits on the chopping block, they aren’t.

    “Cycle of violence” suggests an amorphous sequence that has no beginning or end.

    It is all too clear, however, who initiates the deadly, Pali-Israeli dance.

    True: the occupiers.

  127. Svigor says:

    Yawn. More Zionist propaganda. The main point should be why do we Americans & Europeans care about what two groups of Semites are up to? You people want to have a dust up? Go right ahead. I’ll get the comfy chair and the popcorn. We have no dog in this fight.

    On the contrary, until Jews stop attacking Euro and Euro-American equivalents of what Jews have for themselves in Israel, until they stop being the vanguard of that attack, I am on Team Palestinian. When it comes to Jews, my loyalty must be paid for.

    A plague on both your houses.

    This stuff writes itself, no? 🙂

    Wow. What an incredibly biased piece to find here at Unz.

    These Jews who would point the finger at Palestinians and claim innocence for themselves, are the same Jews who are appalled when whites blame black people for violence.

    If a flock of blacks riot and rape and kill a bunch of whites, Jews will be the first to point out the history of persecution that black people have faced. They will be the first to label anyone who talks about blacks being violent or instigating things as being a racist.

    So excuse me while I laugh at the irony here.

    Amen. American Jewry is on Team Black, when blacks have far less justification for their behavior than Palestinians do, and they’re on Team Israeli, when the Israelis are far less justified than Euro-Americans.

    And we on the right are supposed to pull for the Jews? Absurd.

    Ms Mercer has written before in opposition to liberal Jewish positions about immigration. Her “Into the Cannibal’s Pot” is a warning to Americans based on what has happened in her native South Africa.

    To me, the thrust of the article is about assigning nobility to the “oppressed”. Regardless of one’s position on the Jewish State, the “Muhammadans” have been getting a lot of that treatment in the press – a serious error IMO. As is said at the website “Gates of Vienna”, “We are in a new phase of a very old war.”

    True, and I’ll point out that I have not bashed the author at all, despite bashing some of her ideas. I rather like Ilana, and appreciate very much her efforts to work Euro-American interests (which I acknowledged in passing) into her output.

    Don’t be silly, Jews were only tolerated as Dhimmis in the Middle East before Israel existed and any attempt to rise above that status was not tolerated.

    And Jews obviated their right to (honestly) complain by reciprocating in their territory. And earned the rightful enmity of all good European peoples by making themselves instrumental in denying the right of Europeans to do likewise.

    Ilana Mercer is a writer, born in South Africa to Rabbi Ben Isaacson and raised in Israel, where the family decided to move after Rabbi Ben Isaacson’s anti-apartheid preaching and activism led to their harassment by South African security forces. Wikipedia

    A Zionist Randroid? I had to check her out. Turns out she is a hot Zionist Randroid. Her daddy was anti-apartheid in South Africa. It got him in trouble so he moves to apartheid Israel? I get the impression that she writes because she is a writer. Not because she has anything to say.

    That’s very interesting, if true. I’d love to hear Ilana’s take on the subject, since so many of the issues I and others raise on this subject are probably near and dear to her heart.

    While I think the Zionists were and are naive about the consequences of the establishment of Israel

    I find the idea that they were naive to be naive.

    One argument of theirs that I find quite sensible is that it is silly to imagine/argue that the Middle East would be in peace if Israel were to vanish.

    Sure, that definitely would’ve worked on liberal Jews back in the day: “the civil rights movement is silly, it won’t improve blacks.”

    You could’ve told the Freedom Riders that civil rights would make blacks worse, and even if they’d believed you, they wouldn’t have backed down an inch.

    I’m trying to be as objective as possible. Neither group has more or less claim to that land unless one invokes divine providence.

    I don’t see that as objective. I doubt the mass of American Jewish academics would be similarly “objective” about, say, European pioneers and Amerinds (another “invented people” that Jews are fine with because they aren’t an obstacle to Jews). The Arabs were there first, and then the Jews moved in. This didn’t happen in the 15th century, it happened in the 20th, long after Jews had joined the modern leftist side that opposes colonialism.

    I’ve enjoyed reading all the cuckservatives talk about Palestinians in ways that American Jews would see them hanged for if the topic were blacks.

    Cuck-cuck-cuck!

    I also love the “the Palestinians have plenty of places to move to” bit from the Jews and their cucks; this from the Jews, who decided to colonize a Muslim country and refused any alternatives, lol.

    Germany would have been a bad idea and no Jew would have felt safe doing it. America would have been better. Lot of surplus land, no history of pogroms or holocausts, not bombed to pieces like Europe was.

    Jews in Israel are masters of their own fate, what with only towelheads as opposition. It would be a much different story in a European-dominated territory, where they’d ever be at the mercy of European consent.

    Modern conventions about “civilized war” don’t mean much to me, but I understand that the definition of “terror” is that this is when one attacks non-combatants to apply political pressure. I don’t think the Indians had any political goals, so no, they were not terrorists, they were just killing enemies.

    Congrats, here’s a Mealy-Mouth Prize for you.

    If they are colonialists from Europe in the Middle East, as many Pals see them, so what? My country was once part of an empire and many of my kin tried on places like South Africa or Rhodesia.

    The difference being, American Jews will turn on a dime and criticize all of that, right after defending Israel. You may be fine with people spitting in your face, but I’m not.

    I don’t know. We haven’t seen her go neocon on, say, immigration.

    I’d expect a reasonably nationalistic Jew to be at least moderately pro-Israel. I don’t think Israel’s interests are diametrically opposed to the USA’s in the way that, say, Russia or China’s are as rival great powers, although I do think their lobby’s gotten a little too powerful as of late.

    Israel’s aren’t, but American Jewry’s are.

  128. Svigor says:

    Yep, the level of hatred between Sunni and Shi’a, the infighting and clan fighting, all existed long before Israel.

    Most Anti-Zionists are really Jew Haters; they believe in some crazy narrative that postulates that before Zionism, the world was a happy conflict-free, banker and usury free*, wonderland of abundant peace and freedom under kindly lords and priests.

    Zioids are fond of this silly straw man (see many of Whiskey’s posts), “rainbows and unicorns” slop. Like nobody has the right to call Jews on their bullshit because the rest of the world isn’t perfect. Is this Jewish Logic, or something? “I can steal from you because you don’t always eat your vegetables, I can punch you in the face because you punched someone in the face in 3rd grade,” etc?

    The best comparison for Anti-Zionism is the attitude towards Ethnic Chinese in Indonesia and Malaysia. A hardworking, smart minority dominating the majority economically due to mutual support and elevation of cultural and academic pursuits.

    True: the natives have the right to tell the Chinese to fuck off back to where they came from, too.

    Do you know how many Friendly Fire incidents the US has been at fault for in the past 15 years? To say nothing of earlier wars?

    There it is again, like some disease to which Zioids have a immunodeficiency: “Bob murdered someone, so why should I be prosecuted for murdering Joe?”

    Is this Jewish Logic, or something?

    The Liberty wasn’t supposed to be where it was, of course Jew Haters will always believe the worst no matter what.

    Of course, the Jews are never at fault, and will always excuse everything they do with such misanthropy (their critics are all “Jew haters” who will always “believe the worst” of Jews).

    Shhh! Don’t repeat the demonstrable point that everywhere in the world where Muslims border non-Muslims, from East Africa to North Africa to Shikiang Province in China, to Kashmir, to Chechnya and Bosnia and the cesspit that is Albania/Kosovo, Muslims are pushing against non-Muslims. And in each place they cry “Oppression!” “Crusader!” “Kuffar!”

    Sweden and Germany offer generous job training, language instruction, etc. and instead of taking it, the Muslim immigrants generally teach their children to reject the Kuffar, take his money, and abuse him as weak – and rape his women.

    Shhh! Don’t point out that blacks are worse on almost every metric than Arabs or Muslims, yet diaspora Jewry is decidedly on Team Black, and will see you hanged if you criticize blacks. And pointing out that Jews routinely say things about Arabs and Muslims that they’d never tolerate whites saying about blacks? Fuggedaboutit!

  129. Svigor says:

    The only thing Palestinians can do is get better weapons?!? How about live a life of peace?

    “Live a life of peace,” LOL, you guys crack me up.

    “Now, Kunta, why can’t you just live in peace? Why the violence? If you’d only lived in Peace like a Good Christian, I wouldn’t have to cut your foot off…”

    “Why’d you have to go and try to learn to read, boy?”

    Zioids (and their cuckservatives) really don’t seem to know how often they sound like a caricature of a caricature of a Sweaty Southern Slaveholder.

    Or, if the Jews are so terrible, move to one of the many other Islamic countries in the area. The Jews don’t have other Jewish countries to go to.

    Haha, do you listen to yourself?

    I have exactly as much sympathy for this as Diaspora Jews have for an Afrikaaner in the 80s talking about how there are no other white supremacist states for them to move to should they lose South Africa, because it’s exactly the same argument. I.e., no sympathy whatsoever. Jews have been very successful in mind-colonizing European peoples into seeing their territories as the rightful territory of all Jews, and the opposite, that the Jews’ territory is the Jews’ alone (in short, a “what’s yours is mine, and what’s mine is mine, too mentality), so they have plenty of places to go.

    What are the Christian countries where Christians can go? And perhaps more importantly, HOW SYMPATHETIC ARE JEWS TO THE IDEA OF CHRISTIAN COUNTRIES?. What are the Euro ethno-states (in the vein of Israel as Jewish ethno-state) where Euros can go? And perhaps more importantly, HOW SYMPATHETIC ARE JEWS TO THE IDEA OF EURO ETHNO-STATES?

    The more you guys talk, the worse you look.

  130. Svigor says:

    Jews don’t deserve a Jewish state. They’ve done too much to deny Euro states to European peoples to be worthy of a state for themselves.

    Until they correct this (good and hard), they deserve to have their state taken away from them.

    Jews have the moral low ground.

    • Replies: @OilcanFloyd
  131. @Svigor

    “Zioids (and their cuckservatives) really don’t seem to know how often they sound like a caricature of a caricature of a Sweaty Southern Slaveholder.”

    Jews were knee deep in the slave trade, and owned a fair number of slaves themselves. Isn’t it natural that a zionist and a slave owner/trader would sound the same?

  132. Gabriel M says:

    Svigor, I am Jewish, I am Zionist and I my view of blacks is basically like Steve Sailer’s, but with a bit less sympathy. Conversely, I do sympathize with the plight of white Rhodesians and Afrikaaners whose basic problem was the same as Israel, namely that they were trying to hold on to a patch of land and run in in a reasonably decent fashion, whilst being surrounded by savages who had no real goal beyond tearing it down, because ultimately that’s all they’re capable of. I do sympathize with white police officers in America who have their lives ruined for the crime of not letting some black guy murder them. I’m with you, on those issues, at least, 100%.*

    The overwhelming majority of white people are also, certainly by your definition, on “team black”. You don’t hate them, why must you hate us, including those of us on the Israeli right who probably have as much in common with you as just about any group left standing?

    More to the point, how does helping the Left to tear down it’s next South Africa (and this is precisely how they view the Israeli issue) help your cause one iota? Is there anything to your position beyond childish, self harming spite?

    *I would add the caveat that there are significant minority of blacks who I met whilst living in the UK, who are the nicest guys in the world. Dumb as a brick, but super nice, loyal, and always with a grin on their face; more so that white people, certainly more so than Jewish people. It is the undeniable existence of such people, I think, that has given blacks their cult status in the white imagination. The equivalent among Arabs is, I suppose, some of their women, who because they get beaten up so much are super polite, but not nice in the way blacks can be. Another point is that the most American Blacks are at least nominally Christian and the more religious they are, the more likely they are to to be civilized. Conversely, most Arabs are Muslims and the more religious they are the less likely they are to be civilized. On the other hand, non religious Arabs have the same gang culture as blacks. So Arabs win on IQ, but not much else. Read this article by Jared Taylor, it’s hard to imagine the same thing for Arabs. (Although, I guess you could write an article about how you like Arabs because they kill Jews or something). http://www.unz.com/article/what-i-like-about-blacks/

  133. @Gabriel M

    The voice of one, crying in the wilderness (not that I endorse every jot and tittle).

  134. @Gabriel M

    why must you hate us, including those of us on the Israeli right who probably have as much in common with you as just about any group left standing?

    More to the point, how does helping the Left to tear down it’s next South Africa (and this is precisely how they view the Israeli issue) help your cause one iota? Is there anything to your position beyond childish, self harming spite?

    I will say that I think it has been very healthy (as far as trying to deal with reality) that American Jews have had to confront the dilemma of the Israeli struggle for existence. As you are a Zionist I am sure you realize that there seem to be many of your co-religionists (on the left) who are so committed to an internationalist, non-national world that they deny the reality of the situation in the ME.

  135. Gabriel m says:

    When I was at university I met some American Jews, most were raving leftists. I aso met some American whites, guess what, most were raving leftists.

    Bottom line. You can condemn Jews on the basis of the fact that most of them unthinkingly swallow liberal creationism and the reality of “white privilege”, but you then have to condemn whites as well, which kind of makes being a white nationalist silly. My preferred strategy is to persuade people they are wrong. All of the people I personally know who believe in HBD are Jewish. Most of the white people with whom I have shared these beliefs were horrified. My Jewish mother votes UKIP and my gentile father will barely speak to me because of my contempt for immigration romanticism. British Jews now vote right almost as much as American Jews vote left (granted the Tories are not much better than Labour, but the R’s are not much better then the Ds). Jews in America are not like Jews in Britain who, in turn, are not like Jews in Israel. The Israeli right actively works with politicians in Europe who resist mass third world immigration, such as Geert Wilder’s.

    The countries in Europe that are most frantically pro immigrant in their public culture are also the most anti-Israel, e.g. Sweden. The politicians that are most pro *refugee* in Britain are also the most anti-Israel i.e. Corbyn. I would suggest that if you think you can save America by breaking the hold of Jews over the culture, the calamity in Europe suggests the opposite.

    As regards Israel, just as the Afrikaaners had the fundamental right to defend their existence so do Israelis. They don’t need to buy this right by phoning up every third cousin they have in the US and telling them to grow a clue any more that Afrikaners had to phone up Dutch lefties and tell them to put down their bong.

    • Replies: @iffen
    , @OilcanFloyd
  136. iffen says:
    @Gabriel m

    Very interesting comments by you. I have some questions if you will.

    In a previous comment you wrote, “you should support people of any group who are on the right side, and oppose people on the wrong side.” This is self-evident, is it not? The real question is the basis of how you decide who is right and who is wrong then the choice is made, no?

    You say you are a Zionist but you do not live in Zion. You give the Afrikaners the same right of self-defense as you give to the Israelis, but deny this right of self-defense to the Palestinians.
    I think that choosing sides is a good idea, it tells us quite a lot about our thinking. Do you feel exactly the same concern for the Afrikaners and Rhodesians as you do the Israeli Zionists? (Are there anti-Zionist Israelis?)

    Choosing sides: Hutus or Tutsis? IRA or Orangemen? Kurds vs. everybody else? Basques or Castilians?

    If I am Catholic should I take the side of the IRA? If I am Scotch-Irish should I support the Orangemen?

  137. My Jewish mother votes UKIP and my gentile father will barely speak to me because of my contempt for immigration romanticism.

    What a hoot!

    I would suggest that if you think you can save America by breaking the hold of Jews over the culture, the calamity in Europe suggests the opposite.

    An astute observation, but as Derb has said, “We are doomed.”

  138. @iffen

    (Are there anti-Zionist Israelis?)

    Google “Neterei Karta Zionism.” While the bulk of them are not in Israel, they are among the most vocal and a good place to start.

    Many, maybe even most, of the local Hasidim were opposed to the immigration of European Jews to Palestine and to the establishment of Israel in the early days (most later came around).

    • Replies: @another fred
  139. iffen says:
    @another fred

    Thanks. I remembered a little about them when I started reading the wiki.

    Two comments:

    Why did the Lithuanian and Hungarian Jews come to Palestine rather than go to some other country if there is no connection to Zion?

    They are not really opposed to the concept of Zion, just the current manifestation.

  140. @iffen

    but deny this right of self-defense to the Palestinians.

    An interesting framing of the problem. Since you have asked questions and seem interested in the history I offer some facts you may find relevant.

    At the time of the founding of Israel there were riots in streets all over the Middle East with Jews killed by mobs, their houses burned, and some hanged. More than a half a million of them fled for their lives to Israel and tens of thousands to the West. The Arabs like to emphasize the European origin of many Israelis and ignore this portion of the population.

    This was a time of rising Arab nationalism (the Ottoman Empire being only 30 years gone) and there were strong movements to create a Pan-Arab state. Google “United Arab Republic”, “United Arab States”, and “Arab Federation” – all post-dated the founding of Israel, but the movements were active. “Palestine” was not a country but a “mandate”, a residue of the Ottoman Empire inhabited by Muslims, Christians, and Jews with the Christians and Jews more concentrated west of the Jordan near the Mediterranean coast.

    There had been strife for many years, much of which was admittedly due to the arrival of European Zionists who bought land. Some from local Arabs at first, but increasingly from absentee landlords, due to intense local peer pressure on the native Arabs to not sell. Many Arab tenant farmers were very angry that the land was sold out from under them under a legal system they did not like, but it was largely according to law.

    Google “Hebron Massacre” for an example of the strife.

    The British wanted to be rid of the responsibility for the fractious region, the Zionists wanted a homeland, and the Muslims wanted to be rid of Jews – not a recipe for peace. Muslim protests that they had lived peaceably with Jews for generations are only partly true – they lived peaceably with dhimmis and that status was not always a picnic for the Jews (or Christians, see Copts in Egypt today).

    The proposed UN settlement would have given the Jews a much smaller portion of present day Israel, but they agreed.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine

    The Arabs did not (Pan Arabism is important here) and attacked. Note that Israel was not fighting “Palestinians”, but Arab states including Egypt, Syria, Jordan and Iraq.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_War

    Many of the Arabs, especially Muslims, fled the area to avoid the fighting. Israelis are quick to point out that the Arab states advised them to do so to make the war easier to wage without Muslim civilian casualties. So there were refugees on both sides, the difference being that the Arab states did not want the Palestinian Arabs to resettle and get on with their lives, they wanted them to remain as an open wound, a source of strife and a weapon against Israel.

    Read the Hamas Charter, the goal is, has been, and will always be the destruction of Israel and the ridding of the Muslim world of all but a small population of dhimmi Jews – “self defense” has nothing to do with the matter.

    Contrary to G. W. Bush, Islam does not mean “peace”, it means submission. Some pious, peaceful Muslims, and there are a few, will say that it means submission to God (Allah), but if you dig down it means submission to their culture, their tribal, primitive, culture. Because Muhammad took up the sword and became a ruler that will always be so. Whenever and wherever they have the strength they must and will offer you the choice “submit or die”. That is what they “defend”.

    • Replies: @iffen
  141. @Gabriel m

    “I would suggest that if you think you can save America by breaking the hold of Jews over the culture, the calamity in Europe suggests the opposite.”

    Are you claiming that Jews have had no role in Europe’s calamity? I’m not so sure about that. Even if breaking the hold of Jews on American culture wouldn’t change much for the better (which I doubt) it would be worth doing. The sorry state of American culture is enough of a reason to do so.

  142. iffen says:
    @another fred

    The Arabs did not (Pan Arabism is important here) and attacked. Note that Israel was not fighting “Palestinians”, but Arab states including Egypt, Syria, Jordan and Iraq.

    Good recap. I can go along with what you say up to here, excepting the part about Pan Arabism which has no grounded manifestation.

    I don’t really see what the paragraphs after this point have to do with the subject at hand.

    Two different groups of people, Israelis and Palestinians, are fighting over the same piece of land. I give each side the right of self-defense.

    • Replies: @another fred
  143. @iffen

    I don’t really see what the paragraphs after this point have to do with the subject at hand.

    Two different groups of people, Israelis and Palestinians, are fighting over the same piece of land. I give each side the right of self-defense.

    You need to study the history of Islam. The Muslims are not fighting for a piece of land, they are fighting to establish supremacy and to rid themselves of dissenters as Muhammad did – in this case the dissenters are Jews.

    Again, “self defense” has nothing to do with the matter. The earth is full of people who lost causes and had to get on with their lives. I am descended from some and that is the reality that faces the Palestinians. I have met and know some Palestinians (Christians) who have done so. They are not big fans of the Jews, but they have gotten on with their lives. History and archaeology also testify to those who did not.

    If you are so into moral causes I suggest you read up on Baha’is and their treatment by Muslims. What are the Muslims defending by persecuting these people? I will answer that question for you – they are defending their culture.

    Now comes the next question. Doesn’t everyone have a right to defend their own culture? You will find no stronger defender of the need for culture and its importance to human society than me, but the idea that it is fixed, especially by a seventh century “prophet” is absurd. The Islamist culture is one of conquest and supremacy over the whole world and that culture is supposedly fixed by the “seal” of the prophets.

    The claim that this is over defense of a piece of land will not stand up to scrutiny.

  144. iffen says:

    The claim that this is over defense of a piece of land will not stand up to scrutiny.

    You can state this but it does not make it so.

    If you want to prefer Israelis over Muslims and that is why you take their side that is okay with me. If I was forced to choose I would probably make the same choice. As it is I don’t have a dog in the fight. There is no rule book that says ethnic groups cannot defend themselves. When two groups fight over the same piece of land there is no higher authority that says one has more of a right to it than another. It has always been settled by force and that method has not been transcended. Just choose the side that you want and back fill all of the reasons as to why you chose that side and not the other. It’s okay, that’s what everyone does. Just because I don’t take the side that you want me to does not mean that I am wrong or that you are right.

    • Replies: @another fred
  145. @iffen

    You can state this but it does not make it so.

    Well and good, but have you “scrutinized” the history?

    Have you read the Hamas Charter?

    Have you investigated the history of Arafat and the PLO – the “evolution” of their positions?

    How about the words and deeds of Haj Amin al-Husseini ?

    Do you know the story of how Muhammad died (Sunni version)?

    The only extent to which it is about a “piece of land” is that Muslims are religiously forbidden to give up any land, a “waqf”, but that is Islam, not Palestinians. The fight is NOT about someone’s home as we would understand it (I see from other posts that you are also from the South).

    My position is not about “taking sides”, it is about the stated historical motives of the Palestinians and the aims of the Islamists.

    The position that the fight is about a piece of land (as people’s homes) will not hold water, this is a religious war. I do not expect peace under any circumstances, nor do I predict a winner in what I expect to be a war of annihilation.

    It is what it is and it ain’t what it ain’t.

    • Replies: @iffen
  146. iffen says:
    @another fred

    I can see that you must write these mushy headed pieces yourself.

    Who do you turn to write the posts that make sense?

    • Replies: @another fred
  147. @iffen

    Simple questions. Have you read the sources and history? Is yours an informed opinion or just an opinion?

    In the words of Daniel Patrick Moynihan, “Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”

  148. Kamran says:

    Ilana, I have a message for you from Turkey, my wonderful Jewess:

    I hope both tribes of semitic throat-gargling assholes continue brutally murdering each other for the next century. Hopefully Turkey may accidentally drop a missile on two on that shit heap that you jews/arabs consider “holy”, so that we can stop hearing about it in the news all the time, and move onto more important issues.

    • Replies: @Avery
  149. iffen says:

    Simple answers.

    I have read a little on the establishment of the state of Israel, hence the ”good recap” from me to you.

    I have not read a lot about the Muslim conquests. However, if I change my mind and decide to join you on the Crusade to the Holy Land to fight the Saracens, I will move the relevant histories to the front of my reading queue.

    Just one additional item and I will not take up any more of your time. As you say, opinions need to be supported by facts. There are two ways to fail at this opinion thingy. Having no facts to support your opinion is one way. The other way is reciting a bunch of facts that are not relevant and do not logically support one’s opinion.

  150. Avery says:
    @Kamran

    {Hopefully Turkey may accidentally drop a missile on two on that shit heap that you jews/arabs consider “holy”}

    Keep dreaming Türkoğlu.
    If Turkey accidentally drops a missile on Israel, Israel will accidentally nuke Ankara.
    And don’t expect NATO to come to the rescue of Uyguroğlar nomads.
    Israel killed 9 Turks on Mavi Marmara on a Turkish ship in international waters.
    Windbag Erdogan “threatened” to send rust-bucket Turkish “navy” to invade Israeli territorial waters next time. Israel is still waiting.

    Turkey is being carved up from inside by the West, who have no more use for the unnatural state. And Islamists have become a nuisance.
    Turkey is finished.
    It will be broken up into 3-4 parts.
    Kurdistan, Alevistan, Turkistan, and Otheristan.

    Or you Uyguroğlar can return to Uyguristan and submit to the civilized rule of Chinese, like the rest of your kin there.
    Have a nice trip.

  151. @iffen

    However, if I change my mind and decide to join you on the Crusade to the Holy Land to fight the Saracens,

    At no point in this thread, or in my life for that matter, have I proposed a Crusade to the Holy Land to fight Saracens or anyone else. You are drawing a conclusion that the facts do not support.

    I have offered my belief that the struggle between the Muslims and Jews will become a war of annihilation. I believe this because the facts demonstrate to me that this is a religious war on the part of the Muslims, it is not about a Palestinian State on any geographical location, “River to the Sea” or not. The only way that they location comes into play is that, as stated in the Hamas Charter, the Israelis are occupying a Muslim waqf (that’s “Muslim”, not “Palestinian”), which makes its re-conquest a higher priority and a higher religious duty than the typical jihad.

    I offer again the poem I linked in #27, above:

    http://www.poemhunter.com/best-poems/robinson-jeffers/contemplation-of-the-sword/

  152. Gabriel M says:
    @iffen

    1) As it happens, I am in the process of emigrating.

    2) Broadly speaking, I pick the side which has some reasonable chance of creating a country which will contribute to the global division of labour and human civilisation in general. If the Palestinians governed themselves they would create a worthless sinkhole. If the Palestinians were governed by other Arabs it would be a worthless sinkhole. If the Palestinians were governed by anyone at all, in fact, their country would be a violent dysfunctional hellhole, like Detroit. So what to do? From my narrow perspective, I think the most civilised solution is pay Palestinians who are willing a generous settlement to leave, destroy any Palestinian organisation dedicated to the creation of an Arab state anywhere in the land of Israel and absorb the minority of Arabs who recognise that they are better off a minority in a Jewish country than a majority in any country, based upon a sort of ‘black a block’ strategy. That doesn’t, in the broad sense, solve the problem, because someone else would have to deal with them. but that is their problem. I think that seeing as Germany and Sweden are willing to take unlimited amounts of Muslims to precisely no purpose they could at least solve the Israeli-Palestinian conflict (which they claim they want to do anyway) whilst they are at it. Alternatively, Syria is pretty empty relative to a few years ago. Basically, though, I don’t care where they go as long as its somewhere else.
    In cases where both sides are equally likely to carve out a civilised polity in the limited land space we all share, I don’t know, flip a coin or something.

    3) No I don’t feel the same concern for Afrikaaners as I do for my own people, why should I? I wish them well and hope to learn from their tactical mistakes. Broadly speaking, I think all people concerned to defend civilisation from barbarians should try to get on as much as possible, at a distance. The Left in every country and creed believes basically the same thing, the Right(s) believe different, incompatible things. That’s a tactical advantage for the Left, but we should try to minimise it.

  153. iffen says:

    I agree to disagree.

    You say religious war; I say territorial war.

    Thanks for the poetry, Cummings was the best.

  154. @iffen

    One other item. If you study Muhammad’s life and the history of Islam you will discover that Muslims really do not like Jews.

    You can Google “Banu Qurayzah” or “Death of Muhammad” (you need both to fully understand either) for enlightenment.

    It’s not about Israel or Europeans immigrating to the Middle East, its about Jews.

  155. Anonymous • Disclaimer says: • Website

    This article is extemely offensive and biased. I am surprised to find it here

    • Replies: @iffen
  156. iffen says:
    @Anonymous

    Evidently you have not read many of the contributions here if you are surprised by this one.

    In any case, people are not required to be un-biased and she makes no such pretentions. She is very straight-forward and clear about her values. Further, it is not offensive for people to express their preferences for one side or the other in a conflict.

  157. Svigor says:

    Svigor, I am Jewish, I am Zionist and I my view of blacks is basically like Steve Sailer’s, but with a bit less sympathy. Conversely, I do sympathize with the plight of white Rhodesians and Afrikaaners whose basic problem was the same as Israel, namely that they were trying to hold on to a patch of land and run in in a reasonably decent fashion, whilst being surrounded by savages who had no real goal beyond tearing it down, because ultimately that’s all they’re capable of. I do sympathize with white police officers in America who have their lives ruined for the crime of not letting some black guy murder them. I’m with you, on those issues, at least, 100%.*

    Hi Gabriel. I have no gripe with your position (except insofar as you might reflexively defending the tribe for the inexcusable behavior I’ve outlined above).

    The overwhelming majority of white people are also, certainly by your definition, on “team black”. You don’t hate them, why must you hate us, including those of us on the Israeli right who probably have as much in common with you as just about any group left standing?

    1 Because they’re my people, and Jews aren’t. You would do the same thing in my position. 2 Jews have outsized influence in the American establishment, and they’re much more leftist than whites. No white group votes 70%+ for Democrats like Jews do. 3 The white-Jewish divide presents a fissure in the establishment and on the left that should be exploited. 4 Jews have been doing the same thing (criticizing whites, giving their own kind the soft touch) for a long time now. I’m just returning the favor. Like the commercial: I learned it by watching Jews.

    “Hate” isn’t really on my radar. I “hate” the mass of Jews working against my interests as much as they “hate” my kind, I suppose. I’m very critical of them, but that’s conditional on their malfeasance.

    More to the point, how does helping the Left to tear down it’s next South Africa (and this is precisely how they view the Israeli issue) help your cause one iota? Is there anything to your position beyond childish, self harming spite?

    Carrot and stick are how you get people to behave. The stick is opposing Jewish interests. The carrot is supporting Jewish interests. This is simply reciprocating Jews’ behavior. As long as diaspora Jewry forms the vanguard of the movement to prevent whites from even contemplating having for themselves what Jews have for themselves in Israel, they need to get the stick.

    None of this means that simpatico folks like ourselves can’t be cordial. Have I not spoken to you respectfully so far?

    • Replies: @Gabriel m
  158. Svigor says:

    When I was at university I met some American Jews, most were raving leftists. I aso met some American whites, guess what, most were raving leftists.

    I can’t speak for who you met. I will say that American Jewish leftists are overwhelmingly phony leftists; they don’t try to tear down their own version of Apartheid South Africa – Israel – the way genuine (i.e., white) leftists would (and have done – with the enthusiastic support of Jews, I might add). Instead, they’re on Team Apartheid Israel, apart from a few genuine specimens like Phillip Weiss. I’ve never even heard of a genuine (i.e., white) leftist doing something so obviously hypocritical as opposing Apartheid Israel and supporting Apartheid South Africa.

    Phony leftism (i.e., non-white leftism) abounds, you can observe it in east Asians, Arabs and Muslims, Jews, blacks, browns, etc., etc., etc. The Jewish version is more sophisticated, is all.

    All of the people I personally know who believe in HBD are Jewish.

    Jews do tend to create a lot of exceptions for themselves.

    And yes, I’ve often heard that British Jews are much more assimilated and less psycho than American Jews. Much of that probably has to do with their much smaller share of the population there (and their longer presences); they just don’t have the numbers or power to get up to as much mischief.

    Jews in America are not like Jews in Britain who, in turn, are not like Jews in Israel. The Israeli right actively works with politicians in Europe who resist mass third world immigration, such as Geert Wilder’s.

    I’ve never thought they are all alike. However, Israel has no better friend than diaspora Jewry, particularly American Jewry.

    I would suggest that if you think you can save America by breaking the hold of Jews over the culture, the calamity in Europe suggests the opposite.

    I guess we’ll just have to break it and find out.

    As regards Israel, just as the Afrikaaners had the fundamental right to defend their existence so do Israelis. They don’t need to buy this right by phoning up every third cousin they have in the US and telling them to grow a clue any more that Afrikaners had to phone up Dutch lefties and tell them to put down their bong.

    As long as Israel’s BFF, American Jewry, is public enemy #1, Israel should expect to get dragged into this stuff. Similarly, as long as public enemy #1, American Jewry, shows such monstrously hypocritical support and concern for Israel, they should expect their opponents to exploit their tender spots.

  159. Svigor says:

    I don’t see how dragging diaspora Jewry’s behavior and relationship with Israel into the light and using it to try to force Jews to choose between genuine, reciprocal nationalism (i.e., white nations have the right to exist, too) and genuine leftism (i.e., Apartheid SA had to go, so Apartheid Israel has to go, too), instead of this have-the-gentiles’-cake-and-eat-our-cake-too Jewish Supremacist bullshit as we have now…I don’t see how this is mysterious or outlandish.

    It makes perfect sense to me.

    • Agree: geokat62
  160. Gabriel m says:
    @Svigor

    I think I have already outlined why your opinion is untenable, but I will boil it down to two points.

    1) Europe is already “consistent” in the sense that it consistently takes the side of the Arabs and pressurises Israel into making concessions which are tantamount to suicide, in the same way as the Rhodesians were. Has this led to Europe becoming more white nationalist? No, Europe I currently on its back allowing literally unlimited amounts of Muslims, blacks and, worst of all, black Muslims to, literally, walk in and start demanding free shit. You seem to imagine that by giving the Left another victory you will achieve something other than setting them up for the next one. Again, experience suggests otherwise.

    2) America and to an even greater extent Europe funds groups in Israel dedicated to undermining the Jewish character of the state. I could conclude that white people are out to destroy my people. What is more, George Soros funds a group called “The New Israel Fund” dedicated to promoting perversion and national capitulation. Therefore, there must be a Jewish conspiracy to undermine Israel. On balance, I think it more reasonable to conclude that leftists want to destroy my country as much as they want to destroy yours. As for the hypocrisy of American Jews, isn’t it one of the basic laws of politics that people are conservative on issues that affect them or which they actually know something about?. The typical American Jew knows enough about Israel to know that leftist bloviating about it is not true, they conversely assume that whatever they read about Ferguson is true because they don’t know and don’t care. That is deplorable. The moral response, and the only viable one in the long term, is to persuade American leftists of all ethnicities that their views are wrong, not to try and get them to extend their wrong views to Israel. Perhaps you should work the other way round. There is a YouTube clip from MSNBC in which the Arab loving reporter tries to claim that the Arab “child” just shot by Israeli police was unarmed. The clearly Jewish anchorman then shows him his own footage in which he is clearly brandishing a knife. Show it to a leftist Jew and then ask him why he trusts the same media when it states with total confidence that some black felon was unarmed. Just a thought. Use Jewish hypocrisy as weapon for good, not nihilism.

  161. The fundamental stupidity of Israel is the same as South Africa. You cannot build a Jewish state in the middle of a Billion Muslims who hate them enough that 30% or so will die in an effort to kill Jews. This lasts only until the right Arab gets hold of the nuke. Pakistan has nukes now. Iran will eventually. And there is unlimited oil money. Think a Pakistani wouldn’t take a Billion dollars in exchange for losing a nuke or two? At least when SA folded, it’s leaders had the moral prudence to dismantle their nukes first or we’d now have nuclear weapons wielded by feral negroes. I have no problem with a separate nation for Jews, but it should have been in Siberia, North Dakota, Manitoba, or western Brazil or Argentina – someplace unpopulated and without millennia old animosities.

    And the same story is now unfolding in America if we cannot expel all the Central American Indians attempting to recover what their North American cousins failed to hold several centuries ago.

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