The Unz Review: An Alternative Media Selection
A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media
 BlogviewGuillaume Durocher Archive
Young de Gaulle on the Jews of Poland
🔊 Listen RSS
Email This Page to Someone

 Remember My Information



=>
Charles de Gaulle, 1922/1924

Bookmark Toggle AllToCAdd to LibraryRemove from Library • BShow CommentNext New CommentNext New ReplyRead More
ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
AgreeDisagreeLOLTroll
These buttons register your public Agreement, Disagreement, Troll, or LOL with the selected comment. They are ONLY available to recent, frequent commenters who have saved their Name+Email using the 'Remember My Information' checkbox, and may also ONLY be used once per hour.
Ignore Commenter Follow Commenter
Search Text Case Sensitive  Exact Words  Include Comments
List of Bookmarks

Reading the letters of the young Charles de Gaulle, I recently came across an interesting passage describing life in interwar Poland. Actually, there is something charming about these letters in general. De Gaulle writes to his “bien chère Maman” (dearest mum or mummy) all the while using the formal vous. After spending half of War War I in German POW camps, he is eager to get his military career back on track, and so has volunteered to move to Poland to train the officers for the newly-formed Polish army. He complains of the cold trains and the bureaucratic inefficiency of the French military, while his mother pressures him to find a girl and get married.

Here is my translation of the letter:

Modlin, [Poland, near Warsaw,] May 23, 1919

My dearest Mum,

I have still received nothing from you! Here the postal service is nonexistent, as is everything else. Literally everything remains to be done from top to bottom. The Russians, when they occupied this country, had systematically prevented the Poles from doing anything, whether in trade, industry, administration, or the army. These people, when left to their own devices, are good for nothing, and the worst is that they think they are excellent at everything. We will need much, much effort to rebuild a country with such people. And yet we have such an interest in achieving this that it is worth making the attempt. Warsaw is a city without charm or character, yet quite pleasant and very animated, filled for now with a whole crowd of more-or-less decorated people hailing from Russia, White Russia, and Lithuania, where the Bolsheviks have occupied their lands, and who despite their misfortune are frantically enjoying themselves.

The well-off families of Warsaw, whose wealth has been chipped away at by the recent agrarian laws, war, and a profligate lifestyle, help [the Russian émigrés] with all their means and imitate them. All these people are incidentally very friendly towards us, and receive us more often than we would like. Everything is extremely expensive – about three times more expensive than in Paris – and the smart set here do not deprive themselves of anything. Lower down, the city is swarming with 500,000 impoverished people. One wonders just how they are able to get by, given that there are no working factories, nor any commercial traffic, nor any building works underway.

And in the middle of all this innumerable [. . .], hated to death by all classes of society, all enriched by the war, which they took advantage of on the backs of the Russians, the Boches,[1]A derogatory term for German, roughly equivalent to “Krauts.” and the Poles, and quite disposed to a social revolution in which they would receive a lot of money in exchange for a few dirty tricks.

Our students arrived on June 1st. We are ready to receive them.

A thousand affections for you, Dad, and all of you, my dearest Mum. I very troubled by this lack of news from you.

Your very affectionate and respectful son.

Charles de Gaulle[2]Charles de Gaulle, Lettres, Notes, Carnets: 1919-June 1940 (Paris: Plon, 1980), p. 27-28.

I don’t know why the term of “Jews” has been marked “[…]” in the text. Did the publishers censor it? Or did De Gaulle bowdlerize himself? My edition containing this letter does not make this clear at all. This is however a significant marker of an educated French officer’s opinion on Eastern European Jewry as being disposed to both communism and unscrupulous business.

Much later, De Gaulle would effectively stand up for Jewish interests by moving to London during the Fall of France of 1940 and thus found ‘Free France’ as an integral member of the Allies and an unconditional enemy of Hitlerism. Raymond Aron, a liberal-conservative Jewish journalist who had also moved to London during this time and pursued the struggle against Hitler from there, later strangely wrote that at the time in that city “the Jewish question was present with a kind of obsession.”[3]Article in Raymond Aron, Essais sur la condition juive contemporaine (Paris: Éditions Tallandier, 2007, [originally Éditions de Fallois, 1989], p. 32.

Later still, as President of the Republic – in comments spoken in the wake of the 1967 Six Day War between Israel and the Arabs, and the rising prominence of the Zionist lobby – De Gaulle would say of the founding of Israel: “Some even feared that the Jews, until then dispersed, who had remained what they had always been, an elite people, self-confident and dominating, would, once they were reassembled at the site of their former greatness, change into an ardent and conquering ambition the very touching wishes they had expressed for 19 centuries: next year in Jerusalem!”

I’ve been struck at the revulsion which Polish Jewry in particular has tended to inspire among Europeans. Among Germans, this long predates the notorious Nazi film The Eternal Jew, some of the footage of which is quite shocking.

The famous Prussian king Frederick the Great carefully maintained a policy of limiting the number of Jews in his realm and despised Polish Jewry’s way of life, despite harboring no religious sentiment against them (the king was equally contemptuous of all religions).

The great Prussian military theorist Carl von Clausewitz would voice his disgust in a letter to his wife, with a striking premonition of a holocaust:

The whole experience of the Poles is as though bound and held together by torn ropes and rags. Dirty German Jews, swarming like vermin in the dirt and misery, are the patricians of this land. A thousand times I thought if only fire would destroy this whole anthill so that this unending filth were changed by the clean flame into clean ashes.[4]Peter Paret, Clausewitz and the State: The Man, His Theories, and His Times (Princeton, New Jersey: Princeton University Press, 1985), pp. 212-13.

More recently, the French anti-Zionist nationalist Alain Soral has claimed there is a unique hatred stemming from Polish Ashkenazi Jews in particular, evident in people like Bernard-Henri Lévy and Alain Finkielkraut. Certainly, there is a stereotype of Mizrahi and Sephardic Jews being more laid back, sleazier, and less intelligent (represented in France by the vulgar radio jock Cyril Hanouna, the grotesque Jabba-the-Hut-like Israel-firster politician Meyer Habib, and obnoxious jeans-salesmen).

Whatever the reason, the relationship between Europeans and Jews seems to long have been the unhappiest in this eastern part of Europe.

Notes

[1] A derogatory term for German, roughly equivalent to “Krauts.”

[2] Charles de Gaulle, Lettres, Notes, Carnets: 1919-June 1940 (Paris: Plon, 1980), p. 27-28.

[3] Article in Raymond Aron, Essais sur la condition juive contemporaine (Paris: Éditions Tallandier, 2007, [originally Éditions de Fallois, 1989], p. 32.

[4] Peter Paret, Clausewitz and the State: The Man, His Theories, and His Times (Princeton, New Jersey: Princeton University Press, 1985), pp. 212-13.

 
• Category: History • Tags: Charles De Gaulle, Jews, Poland 
Hide 324 CommentsLeave a Comment
Commenters to Ignore...to FollowEndorsed Only
Trim Comments?
    []
  1. Svevlad says:

    Well of course they hate everyone, they’re direct descendants of slave merchants that moved there way back, were never nice people

    They’re losing this character very fast though, which is why they’re even more pissed (old bastards want to ruin Europe as much as possible because they see their kids have more fun plans, like snorting cocaine off a fat whore’s oversized ass)

  2. Walt says:

    Tragically Jews in the Holocaust paid for the sins of their ancestors. Most Jews I knew were good people. All it takes is a few bad apples to ruin a bushel of good apples.

  3. Anon[214] • Disclaimer says:
    @Walt

    Tragically Jews in the Holocaust paid for the sins of their ancestors.

    No, they didn’t.

    Most Jews I knew were good people.

    Most Jews I knew were good people.

    That does not change the fact that they identify with a wholly evil religion that seeks to hurt every group that it comes into contact with. It believes in the genocide of non-Jews and seeks world domination at the cost of the culture, lives, and property of every other group.

    All it takes is a few bad apples to ruin a bushel of good apples.

    By definition, there are no “good apples” in a group whose identity centers on a religion that seeks what I above stated. There are only a lot of deceitful apples and perhaps a couple of ignorant (of their own religion) apples.

  4. Bartolo says:

    @Guillaume
    Honestly, I don´t understand.

    It seems to me that Finkielkraut is pretty nationalism-friendly and that he has made considerable efforts to defend the historic French nation (the only French nation there is). He has been courageous. True, he defends Jews passionately, but his parents could have been killed in the Shoah. Shouldn´t we cut the man some slack?

    Or am I missing something?

  5. @Bartolo

    I am paraphrasing Soral here. He is certainly very sensitive to any mention of Jewish power and privilege. I must say I have not read his “identitarian” works and it is true he has occasionally defended whites on the radio.

    • Replies: @Digital Samizdat
    , @Marcus
  6. @Guillaume Durocher

    It’s a pity we’re not allowed to defend on our own race in (((the media))) though. I guess we need ‘sympathetic’ Jews to do that for us.

  7. JM Keynes wrote from Cracow that the only industry he could find in Poland was “tormenting Jews.”

    • Replies: @El Dato
  8. HEREDOT says:

    The power of Jewish heresy is hidden in hedonism! Sex magic, drugs, alcoholism are here.

    • Replies: @Kratoklastes
  9. Republic says:

    The real fall of France

    From the great French nationalist, De Gaulle to the globalist Macron

    what a great fall!

    • Replies: @Hail
  10. Lot says:

    “Whatever the reason, the relationship between Europeans and Jews seems to long have been the unhappiest in this eastern part of Europe.”

    Based on 0 Polish sources?

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @niteranger
  11. IIRC French and German Jewish elites in the century before strongly lobbied AGAINST immigration from the East as it would upend race relations (!).

    Right they were.

  12. @Digital Samizdat

    I know, it’s a disgrace.. imagine if the only people allowed to make pro-Jewish comments in Israeli media were.. Christians!

  13. @Bartolo

    ‘… True, he defends Jews passionately, but his parents could have been killed in the Shoah…

    There’s a peculiar notion. My parents ‘could have been killed’ in the Second World War as well.

    I guess I get to be ‘passionate’ about my ethnicity as well. Victimhood for all.

    • Replies: @Bartolo
  14. Marcus says:

    Polish Jews were the most numerous and also the most powerful in Europe, they were basically an entire caste allied with and used by the nobility to keep the peasants, especially the Rusyns, down: that’s why they were heavily targeted in the Cossack uprisings.

    • Agree: Alfred
  15. Marcus says:
    @Guillaume Durocher

    “Whites” meaning what? Using that terminology in a European context should be avoided

  16. I get so damned tired of hearing about the Jews, almost as much as I get tired of hearing about LGBTQXYZ.

  17. @Longfisher

    ‘I get so damned tired of hearing about the Jews, almost as much as I get tired of hearing about LGBTQXYZ.’

    For a group that makes up two-tenths of one percent of humanity, Jews do require a remarkable amount of attention. Compare, say, to Mormons, or Cambodians — two groups that are roughly equivalent in numbers.

    At the moment, for example, we’re teetering on the edge of an almost certainly catastrophic war, to be fought at the behest of world Jewry. Even if we avoid it, they’ve managed to raise the price of gas about $0.25 per gallon for just about everybody on the planet. It’s hard to think of an equivalent toll ever imposed by the Mormons. Cambodia certainly couldn’t frog-march us into a war with Iran.

    • Agree: anon19, Carroll Price
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @iffen
    , @Nehlen
  18. From 1500 to 1800 the Jews were between the Polish nobility and the poor serfs. Nobility leased out everything to the Jews: farms, breweries, municipalities, court , everything. It was called the Arendar system. Jews were very much their own boss.

    Fernand Braudel: in La Mediterrannée.. pag 137 : ” In Poland, which burst suddenly into modernity at the beginning of the fifteenth century, there is a growing jewish ascendance, the result of numbers, and almost a jewish nation and state….”

    The jews treated the serfs in a terrible way. They wielded total power over the serfs.
    There is a very good study by an anonymous scholar, Nicholas Lysson: http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/TPV3/Voices.php/2009/05/26/holocaust-holodomor-origins-of-anti-semi?page=1

    It has dozens of books for reference.
    Here you will find the books grouped:
    http://xevolutie.blogspot.com/2015/01/435-holocaust-and-holodomor-annotated.html

    The literature that Lysson discusses relates to the following questions:
    A. Literature about the Jewish faith and about double morality. (*)
    B. About the horrors of the Ukrainian famine (the Holomodor).
    C. Literature which designates the Jews as the perpetrators of the holomodor.
    D. About the Arendar system in “large Poland” from 1500 to 1800.
    E. Jewish religious writings that incite hatred, contempt and discrimination.
    F. Literature about the texts mentioned in E above.
    G. General history

  19. DeGualle like most erudite individuals who tend to let go of ideological ball and chain will analyse and reflect on what information is given to them with one big open mind.
    Let us put some historical context to this debate.
    I commence with straight reason and logic along andf common sense.
    Ones religion does not make one a semite.
    Which brings me to my next point.
    Judaism is historically and factually from the ME.
    People originating from this religion initially are considered to be either Mitzrai or Serphardic in origin.
    It was only in circa 800 AD that a new race and culture of individuals acquired the semetic religion known as Judaism. Khazars. Well known established historical facts that no anglo-zionist or zionist can dispute.
    Judaism is based on the TORA hence Talmudic Judaism is a modern day replacement.
    Chabbad/Khazarian/ Talmudic Judaism in my opinion is Luceferianism to Judaism like Luceferianism is to Christians and Muslims alike.
    Next point
    Using reason and logic and plain common sense ones religion does not make one a semite.
    Hence if one were to use Zionist logic all Catho;ics are Italian ,all Anglicans are British ,all Lutherans are German and all Muslims are Arab.
    Hence this is where the Zionist deception enters the mainstream way of thinking.
    Semites are all peoples originating from the Levantine basin Lebanese ,Syrians ,Palestinians and Mitzrai and Serphardic Jews.
    Zionism ,Anglo-zionism is the real anti-semitism for equating a political belief with religion is where all the problem arises.
    Further more any person or being with a scintilla of grey matter can easily find enough evidence out there that zionism was not born or initiated by Herzl but by the oligarchical class of England in the turn of the 1800’s that is why most anti -zionist like myself will always refer to it as anglo-zionism for that is where it was born and midwifed.
    Until these issues are fully addresses will will continue to have circular debates /arguments about anti semitism and allow the Zionist to continue their argument of we are the victims when evidence shows other wise.
    Truth can be found in Lenny Brenners excellent documentation of the vile fascistic and racist events and quotes of famous ashkanazi zionist throughout history.
    Modern day Israel will always be a a spanner in the forks of the wheel of truth justice peace and harmony.
    PACE E BENE

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
    , @SolontoCroesus
  20. @Marcus

    Finkielkraut has used the term blancs, meaning indigenous Frenchmen and other Europeans. Colored racial language has a long history in France and its colonies (see the Code noir).

    • Replies: @Marcus
  21. @Johan Vermeulen

    You’re right. “Arenda” is a keyword. I expected Durocher would have spoke about it.

    • Replies: @Brabantian
  22. [In DeGaulle’s London] the Jewish question was present with a kind of obsession

    Well, the reason is that DeGaulle attracted in London the two kind of Frenchs who wanted to fight Hitler:
    – the french Jew, for one part
    – the hard nationalist French. For most of them, they previously had been strongly despising French Jews since longtime.

    Thus, it was an explosive alliance between former ennemies. Fortunately, their common goal, that is fighting Hitler, was at the time more important.

    Let’s imagine a Venusian army invades and conquers Middle East. Then, the remnant fighters from Israel and Iran must mix together in a new army in order to counter-attack the invaders… They cannot avoid speaking together, questionning each other… and they have to trust each other to reach the common goal…

    • Agree: Guillaume Durocher
  23. @Lot

    ‘Whatever the reason, the relationship between Europeans and Jews seems to long have been the unhappiest in this eastern part of Europe.”

    Based on 0 Polish sources?’

    No doubt Jewish sources recall it as an idyllic era of mutual esteem and neighborly support.

  24. Lot says:
    @Colin Wright

    Some Jews are going to complain about antisemitism anywhere. Still meaningless if the question is whether Poles and Jews have some unique issues.

    Given their very high historical fertility in greater Poland, I don’t think it was really all that bad.

    Further, unlike some other countries, they were allowed to be farmers/landowners.

    In a list I saw a while ago, non-Jewish Poles also have the highest estimated AJ ancestry of any European group. So more fraternization than elsewhere too.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  25. @Bartolo

    “… ‘his parents could have been killed in the shoal. Shouldn’t we cut him some slack?” First the show, commonly known as the holocaust doesn’t stand the scrutiny of true historians or mathematicians. Secondly, ask a Palestinian what he thinks of Finkelstein or any other Jew.

    • Replies: @Bartolo
  26. Anonymous[205] • Disclaimer says:
    @Walt

    Most Jews I knew were good people.

    You need to get out more. Most Jews I knew were nepotistic opportunists, eager parasites or outright anti-goyim satanists.

    As it turns out, the father of lies was always in charge of the synagogue of satan. And I’m not even religious…

  27. This is a rose-coloured-glasses view of de Gaulle.

    He fled France in 1940, and while he was in England a bunch of kompromat relating to him was amassed because of his japes and ways.

    That led to a payday for a variety on constituencies once he was catapulted to power in France post-war.

    inb4 some fucktard asks: “How did they know to amass kompromat on de Gaulle, instead of some other Frog who fled the capitulation?”

    That’s not how it works, dummy.

    The only people in the hunt for any position of significant political power, are those over whom kompromat is held.

    And let’s be clear: this has nothing to do with da Jooooze (or da May-sins, or da Allu-muh-nahtee).

    It has to do with the powerful hands, not wanting to entrust the sham of democracy to anything other than ‘safe hands’.

    It’s a common mistake – that the drivel that is spouted by the political class whould be taken at face value.

    To see how common: consider this anecdote.

    Today during his presentation to our asset allocation committee meeting, I had a fund manager tell me – straight faced – that it was not until he recently visited Washington that he became aware that members of the FOMC were susceptible to political pressure.

    This guy manages $12 billion of other people’s money, but until his recent Damascene conversion he had the mental sophistication of a slightly-retarded 6 year old in at least one cognitive domain that is relevant to his job. (I would have to ask him more questions to identify other domains).

    He’s objectively a bright guy, but his “daily grind” simply does not permit him the time to devote to reading widely outside of his direct objectives.

    (As a further example: a bond fund guy a couple of weeks ago, didn’t know who “Beyond Meat” was, or what an “Impossible Burger” is. But if you told him a set of bond funds and their weighting in a portfolio, he could tell you the Macaulay duration of the portfolio without looking at his phone. Bond guys are the smartest by far – they are to asset management, what back-end guys are to tech).

  28. @HEREDOT

    Sex magic, drugs, alcoholism are here.

    Lighten up, yo. There’s nothing wrong with any of those things.

    I’ll grant you that “sex magic” is maybe borderline: it’s just a way for ugly old blokes to get laid, because young women are so fucking gullible. But most charlatans are from the bottom of the first cognitive quintile, so on balance if they impregnate some young Lovely, it’s likely to be breed-enhancing.

    But drugs? alcohol[ism]?

    Both outstanding things, and excellent Darwinian Filters: manage them and you will be a much much better and more enlightened individual… succumb to them (because of a short cognitive horizon) and die in your 30s.

    Again – breed-enhancing.

  29. @Parisian Guy

    From a Jewish site on the “glory days of Jewish Arendars”
    https://kehilalinks.jewishgen.org/Kolomea/arenda.htm

    The arenda has been defined as a system of leasing property in early modern Poland in which in exchange for a predetermined rent the lessor agreed to transfer to the leasee control over property or rights; thus, enabling the lessee to pocket any income produced from the leased property or rights.

    The arenda provided a livilhood for a significant proportion of Polish Jewish families.

    An arendar, or sometimes called an arendator, was the leasee in an arenda contract.

    The cheap labor on magnate estates were called serfs. The serfs were tied to the lands. They depended on the magnates and arrendars to provide rations and other goods in exchange for many hours of hard labor. They were taxed heavily and were restricted from moving to other regions. The serf could be sold with the land by the landowner or leased as was the case with arendas.

    At the end of the 16th century the [Polish] nobility was becoming more oligarchic. Magnates were distinguished by their wealth and land holdings.

    They were the ones who were entitled to property or rights and transferred the property or rights to arendars for a predetermined rent or fee. Because the nobility either did not have the skills to manage their far off holdings or the desire to do so, it made good economic sense to lease out to Jews who possessed the skills to produce sufficient income to support the estate and the willingness to settle in frontier lands. Jews were forbidden by law to own land, but they were allowed to lease it.

    Because it was just good business economics, the magnate did whatever he could to protect his Jews during times of wars from without or revolts from within. The Jews made a profit for the magnate, as well as themselves.

    Massive growth encouraged Jews expelled from other lands to migrate to the Poland-Lithuania Commonwealth. By 1616 over half of the crown lands in Ukraine were leased out to Jewish arendars.

    When the Jew and his family was expelled from other countries he came to the new land with considerable personal property of substantial value which could be sold or traded to raise the arenda fee. The method would produce profit early on.

    The Jew or his family members may have had craft, merchant, or trading skills which could be put to use in the new land to raise funds. This method took a bit longer for the Jew to become an arendar and increase his income substantially.

    The Jew [may have] had to take a loan to pay for the arenda fee with the expectation that the lease would produce enough icome to pay back the loan with interest and produce suffient income to support a decent standard of living. It was also possible that any combination of the three methods could be used whenever conditions warranted it.

    Above all else it must be remembered that magnates were ever-chasing the financial gain …

    • Replies: @Jacques Sheete
  30. Warsaw used to be a third Jewish. The excellent documentary Image Before My Eyes shows Jewish life in Poland prior to World War II.

    • Replies: @Guillaume Durocher
    , @Anon
  31. Bartolo says:
    @Colin Wright

    @Colin Wright
    That is the point. Finkielkraut also defends ethnic French people and is chummy with guys who promote “remigration”, meaning sending migrants back. The fact that he defends his fellow Jews is fine, as long as he does not deny others the right to do the same.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  32. @Walt

    As the former chief Sephardic Rabbi of Israel Ovadia Yosef (born in Baghdad) said: “The six million Holocaust victims were reincarnations of the souls of sinners, people who transgressed and did all sorts of things which should not be done. They had been reincarnated in order to atone.”

    — Weekly Saturday night sermon in August 2000

    You should be so lucky.

  33. Bartolo says:
    @the grand wazoo

    I really don’t get this urge to become the champion/bitch of the Palestinians.
    I have never, ever, not once in my life, seen a Palestinian sympathise with ethnic Europeans or warn us because we also are being colonised like they were. Has any of you?

    They actually are happy about it, because it’s their people (Arabs/Muslims) doing the colonising. I do not care about the Palestinians, nor should you. Because they are on the side of our colonisers.

    If you fight not for your people, but for another people (Palestinians), you are *every bit as cucky* as the low-IQ Christians bleeding and paying fir Israel.

    • Agree: TKK
    • Replies: @Marcus
    , @Colin Wright
    , @Alfred
  34. Marcus says:
    @Guillaume Durocher

    Just say French then, no need to add a qualifier for ethnic groups/nationalities that were well-established long before “white” became a thing. Use of “white British” and the like is tacit admission that there can be other varieties; no one says “black Zulus.”

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
  35. Marcus says:
    @Bartolo

    The Muslim ones will always side with Jews over European/Christian populations; some Christian Arabs (especially Levantines) might be more sympathetic, but their numbers are small. Also the huge majority of diaspora Jews will side with Muslims/Arabs, hardcore neocons who prioritize Israel enough to side with right wing gentiles in Europe or the US are probably like 15% of the diaspora (but they punch above their weight)

  36. @Kratoklastes

    You are right.
    Bright minds may lose a serious bit of effectiveness because of the narrowness of their expertise field.

    Let me give you another instance of that rule.
    I know a guy who perfectly understand the kompromat use in politics. Nevertheless, he fubared his comment about DeGaulle, because he did not knew that in time of war, kompromat doesn’t matter. The power physically goes in the hands of the best army chief.

    • Agree: Vojkan
    • Replies: @Counterinsurgency
  37. @Lot

    ‘…In a list I saw a while ago, non-Jewish Poles also have the highest estimated AJ ancestry of any European group…’

    …and Netanyahu looks remarkably like various recent Polish gentile politicians.

    …not very surprisingly. Jews traditionally were the agents for Polish landlords. You’re telling me someone with the power of life and death over a batch of Ruthenian serfs isn’t going to be getting laid pretty regularly?

    Conversely, servants would convert, mistresses would become accepted as wives, etc, etc. One might as well hold that the descendants of the Norman overlords of Britain are still genetically distinct from their Anglo-Saxon underlings.

    Then — finally — those Ashkenazim wouldn’t have been exactly chips off the old Temple Mount in the first place. They enter history as a population more or less centered around the Rhine Valley. I doubt if they were genetically isolated from their neighbors at that point.

    The whole ‘Jews are a genetically separate group’ thesis flies in the face of everything we know about human behavior and all the history we have. They’re a culturally distinct group, and no doubt they’re more closely related to each other than to their gentile neighbors — but those are different matters entirely.

    ‘…So more fraternization than elsewhere too…’

    I think fraternization happened everywhere. Descendants of German Jews look Germanic, Yemeni Jews look Yemeni, and Tunisian Jews look remarkably Tunisian. Is this hard to figure out?

  38. @Bartolo

    ‘I really don’t get this urge to become the champion/bitch of the Palestinians.
    I have never, ever, not once in my life, seen a Palestinian sympathise with ethnic Europeans or warn us because we also are being colonised like they were. Has any of you?

    They actually are happy about it, because it’s their people (Arabs/Muslims) doing the colonising. I do not care about the Palestinians, nor should you. Because they are on the side of our colonisers.

    If you fight not for your people, but for another people (Palestinians), you are *every bit as cucky* as the low-IQ Christians bleeding and paying fir Israel.

    There you go. Pull the plug on Israel, be completely neutral, and we’ll all be happy.

  39. @Bartolo

    ‘@Colin Wright
    That is the point. Finkielkraut also defends ethnic French people and is chummy with guys who promote “remigration”, meaning sending migrants back. The fact that he defends his fellow Jews is fine, as long as he does not deny others the right to do the same.’

    What I see as the point is ‘his parents could have been killed in the Shoah’ is virtually meaningless. It doesn’t confer some special license on Finkielkraut — as you imply it should.

    You’ll attempting to create some bullshit argument where all Jews have a special license because someone elsewhere was mean at some other time to other Jews. I’m left-handed, and left-handed schoolchildren were often mistreated in Communist-era Romanian schools.

    Of course, I wasn’t mistreated, I’m not Romanian, and I certainly didn’t go to Communist-era Romanian schools. But apparently I should get a special license to feel aggrieved. This is utter nonsense.

  40. @Colin Wright

    ‘…No doubt Jewish sources recall it as an idyllic era of mutual esteem and neighborly support.’

    The whole Polish Jewish tangent does allow for some illuminating thoughts.

    Jews do see the era of their heyday in Poland as an interval of happiness and cultural achievement.

    …but it would appear to have been achieved via playing an integral role in one of the cruelest and most absolute systems of serfdom ever seen in Europe — the condition of serfs under Polish rule was notorious even in regions where serfdom was still accepted.

    One rarely hears Jews even consider this aspect of their happy time — that it was achieved via the suffering they inflicted on others. And that’s the thing.

    Jews see themselves as often having been cruelly oppressed and even murdered in large quantities. That’s true enough. However, they rarely — not never, but rarely — consider that their own behavior might have been open to criticism as well. Bohdan Khmelnytsky didn’t hurl himself upon the Jews of the Ukraine just because he was a bad man. It was an uprising of a population that the Jews themselves were cruelly oppressing.

    This isn’t to say that all oppression of Jews everywhere was justified — still less that we should subscribe to some of the fantastic prescriptions of our resident anti-Semites. But at the same time, this robe of immaculately innocent victimhood that Jews tacitly or explicitly keep donning isn’t justified either.

    It’s all a bit like a girl who keeps walking scantily clad through a bad part of town at two in the morning — and she keeps getting raped.

    Well, the rapes certainly aren’t right, and I wouldn’t excuse the rapists — but surely, the girl should consider the flaws in her own behavior. This pie-eyed look of innocence gets hard to sympathize with. Go ahead and look up Jewish accounts of the Khmelnytsky pogroms. See how many emphasize the role the Jews themselves played in bringing it on.

    • Agree: RWS
    • Replies: @Lot
    , @Anonymous
  41. the relationship between Europeans and Jews seems to long have been the unhappiest in this eastern part of Europe

    The effigy of a Jew holding an EU flag was burned at a rally in Wroclaw in 2015. The Forward report on the incident quotes the editor of a Jewish magazine in Warsaw:

    ‘The Jew has always been portrayed in Polish folk culture as an eternal threat and a stranger. Holding an EU flag fortifies their racist belief that Jews are orchestrating an EU plot to destroy white Catholic Poland.’

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  42. Anon 2 says:

    To understand the behavior of American Jews, study the history of the Polish
    Jews, as for centuries Poland was the center of Jewish life in Europe.

    After the Jews were largely expelled from Western Europe (where they had been
    confined to ghettoes) and were prohibited from settling in Russia, they migrated
    to the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth or Republic where they were given
    many privileges and were free to live wherever they liked. The Commonwealth
    was then the largest country in Europe (its eastern border ran 50 miles east of
    Moscow and Kiev was under Polish control for 100 years), was dominated by
    Poland culturally and linguistically, and consisted of central Poland, Lithuania,
    Belarus, and western Ukraine. By 1550 an estimated 90% of the world’s Ashkenazi Jews
    lived in the Commonwealth. The Jews were very prominent as tavern and inn
    keepers (where they functioned essentially as drug dealers if you think of alcohol
    as a drug, and were able to hire young women and underage girls as servants),
    and as tax collectors, particularly in Ukraine. After the Commonwealth was
    partitioned in the late 18th century, the Germans who initiated the partitions
    removed most of the Jewish privileges, and also unexpectedly for the first time
    the Jews found themselves in the Russian Empire where they were prohibited
    from leaving the Pale of Settlement.

    The case of Warsaw, under Russian occupation until 1914, was interesting.
    There were definitely Harvey Weinstein characters in early 20th century Warsaw
    – they ran bordellos, were involved in human trafficking, ran gambling
    establishments, and published pornography. The religious Jews were as
    scandalized by this as the general population but could not control the
    secular Jews who all too often tended to indulge their animal appetites.
    The Jewish percentage in Poland was 10%, until 1939 the largest in the world.

    The Jewish record in Poland is mixed. They left some bad memories, e.g.,
    – dishonesty in business;
    – sympathy toward the Bolsheviks in Russia;
    – Jewish elites argued vehemently against Poland regaining independence
    at the Versailles conference in the wake of WW I;
    – they refused to assimilate, often spoke in Yiddish (i.e., in code) – even Isaac
    Bashevis Singer who wrote in Yiddish could barely speak Polish (and got
    his start writing soft porn for a Yiddish magazine in Warsaw);
    – during the interwar years they typically voted with the German minority
    in the Polish Parliament;
    – and most important, they monopolized the merchant class occupations,
    and, unlike in W. Europe, prevented the growth of Polish merchant elites,
    ultimately resulting in the Commonwealth’s decline.

    On the positive side,

    – despite the huge Jewish percentage (e.g., in the 1930s Poland was
    15% Ukrainian and 10% Jewish) the relations were relatively amicable.
    Singer described Warsaw of his childhood as paradise. The relations
    with the Ukrainians were more strained;
    – Warsaw gave rise to many famous Jews – e.g., Ben-Gurion, Singer, and
    ancestors of Richard Feynman;
    – Several famous writers of children’s stories were Jewish, e.g., Tuwim
    whose poem “Lokomotywa” is known by all Polish children;
    – Leopold Infeld, Einstein’s collaborator, returned to Warsaw after WW II
    and developed a Polish school of theoretical physics.

  43. Lot says:
    @Colin Wright

    “the condition of serfs under Polish rule was notorious even in regions where serfdom was still accepted.”

    Cite? Poland in general was backward compared to Germany, advanced compared to eastern Slavs.

    Russia outside the Pale had cruel serfdom without any help from Jews. And the great landowners and nobility in Poland were often ethnic Germans.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @Anonymous
  44. Lot says:
    @Longfisher

    You’re on the wrong website bro.

    • LOL: Dave Pinsen
  45. @Lot

    ‘the condition of serfs under Polish rule was notorious even in regions where serfdom was still accepted.”

    Cite? Poland in general was backward compared to Germany, advanced compared to eastern Slavs.

    Russia outside the Pale had cruel serfdom without any help from Jews. And the great landowners and nobility in Poland were often ethnic Germans.

    Note that this whole tangent would essentially do nothing to rebut my point.

    I won’t accuse you of conscious redirection — but you are evading the issue.

  46. @Johnny Rottenborough

    ‘…‘The Jew has always been portrayed in Polish folk culture as an eternal threat and a stranger…’

    To be fair, in the experience of the Polish folk, this seems largely to have been true.

    From the Polish peasant’s point of view, the Mongols, Russians, and Germans may have all been horrific, but they came and went. The Jews were agents of their oppression for several hundreds of years.

    Moreover, I recently read that even in the nineteen thirties, the majority of Polish Jews didn’t speak Polish. True or not, they seem to most emphatically have been strangers.

    So from the Polish folk’s point of view, how could the Jew be viewed as anything but a threat and a stranger? The equivalent would be to expect Greeks to see Turks as really, pretty nice guys. It gets back to that whole shawl of immaculate victimhood Jews insist on donning. The world just isn’t like that.

    • Replies: @Johnny Rottenborough
  47. @Anon 2

    ‘To understand the behavior of American Jews, study the history of the Polish
    Jews…’

    Good post. However, I wouldn’t draw a straight-line connection between the place and behavior of Jews in Poland and Jews in America.

    To grossly oversimplify, I see Jews in America as having gone through two stages.

    The first was ‘nobody cares if we’re Jewish!’ Jews got to be Americans — and reveled in it. ‘My son, the doctor.’ Hank Greenberg, ‘the Hebrew Hammer.’ Supreme Court justices. Etc.

    Then came Israel, and we got the era of the super-Jew. It’s all really been kind of sad.

    • Replies: @Anon 2
  48. @Colin Wright

    Colin Wright—Chapter 5 of Kevin MacDonald’s A People That Shall Dwell Alone has a section on ‘Ashkenazi Jews in Early Modern Poland’. Basically, Jews took over the economy and prevented the emergence of a Polish middle class. It’s hardly surprising they became disliked:

    By the end of the 18th century, Jews dominated almost all areas of trading, manufacturing, and estate managing, and they had become dominant among the artisans as well. Competition was most intense between Jewish and Christian artisans, and there were constant complaints that Jews refused to join Christian guilds, that they controlled the trade in raw materials, that they imported finished products into the town, and that they encouraged Jews not to buy from Christians—complaints that were common throughout Poland at the time.

  49. utu says:

    What was the role of Jews in Poland? Why Ghettos’s were created in cities? Cities in general were outside of King’s and Church jurisdiction and outside of the land owning nobility’s power. One should look at legal entity of Jurydyka:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jurydyka
    Jurydyki were popular already in the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth of the 16 century,[1][4] ruled by the ecclesiastic and secular lords and seigneurs eager to break up the legal unity of the town to accommodate favoured colonies of craftsmen not subjected to guild regulations. The Jurydyki were often perceived as a menace withholding municipal taxes and services under the jurisdiction (hence the name) of powerful and wealthy townsmen who founded and owned them. Formed as a separate unit of territorial division between 14th and 16th centuries, the jurydyka-type settlements were a way in which the Roman Catholic Church and the Polish nobility avoided the terms of the royal town charters. Most notably, the Jurydyki were exempted from the specific trade laws allowing only selected merchants and craftsmen to take part in the markets held in the cities. In many Polish cities the Jurydyki were eventually incorporated into the towns as their boroughs. This was the case of Warsaw, which in early 18th century was surrounded by no less than 14 such entities, some of them with as many as 5,000 inhabitants. All of them are now neighbourhoods of Warsaw.[5]

    This Wiki entry doesn’t not mention Jews but it was Jews who were the greatest beneficiaries of Jurydyka because they could break the limitation imposed by city guilds on production and trade and be protected by royal and ecclesiastic powers. So in the beginning the Jews were a tool of King and Church to overcome great autonomy that medieval cities enjoyed including exemption from paying taxes or refusal to raise money for military campaign. To this one should ad the fact that burghers often were a foreign element in Poland. Predominantly they were German.

    This should explain why Jews were given extraordinary privileges in Poland by Kings and Church. See Statute of Kalisz: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statute_of_Kalisz

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Jacques Sheete
  50. utu says:

    Long time ago I read excerpts form a book that was one available on CODOH or IHR. Now I do not remember and I would not be able to find it. The book was written by an American military officer who after WWI was on a humanitarian mission to Poland. His description of Jews and their lives, poverty, dirt and diseases was more dramatic than any Nazi propaganda films.

    Perhaps Wally or somebody who is familiar with the literature available on these sites could find it.

  51. Anon 2 says:
    @Colin Wright

    Thank you!

    What is worrisome is that the United States may suffer a similar fate as Poland did
    in the 18th century. The market-dominant minorities, Jews, Chinese, and East
    Indians, are displacing heritage Americans at elite universities, major newspapers
    and magazines, federal government, television, movies, Silicon Valley, etc.
    effectively monopolizing the best jobs in the country, best in terms of influence,
    visibility, and power. As the Asians continue to pour into the U.S., the total
    percentage of market-dominant minorities, none of them Christian, not even
    culturally, will soon reach the 10% figure that the Jews maintained throughout
    most of Poland’s history. This means that soon the U.S. will be ruled by an alien
    elite that has little in common with the vast majority of heritage Americans.

  52. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Kratoklastes

    There was a column in today’s FT suggesting alpha in bond funds basically doesn’t exist, and that almost all outperformance comes from taking on more risk than the indexes. Doesn’t surprise me, from the bond fund managers I’ve known.

    • Replies: @Kratoklastes
  53. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Marcus

    Use of “white British” and the like is tacit admission that there can be other varieties

    Because there can be, and there are, now that “British” is the nationality of Great Britain, which includes nonwhite racial minorities.

    In the past, “British” was used to describe an ethnic group indigenous to the island, but they are now called the Welsh.

    • Replies: @Miro23
    , @Marcus
  54. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @utu

    There are a number of contradictory claims in this thread. For example:

    – That Jews dominated the Polish economy/elite, and that Polish Jews lived in poverty and filth.

    – That Polish Jews fraternized and intermarried with ethnic Poles, and that most Polish Jews didn’t speak Polish

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @utu
  55. @Lot

    I’ve known a number of Poles and Ukrainians and they all speak disparaging of the Jews. Some were born there and some still have relatives in those countries. So I think the author is right at least in the people I know.

  56. The jews sided with the Soviets and ruled over the Polish gentiles, and naturally the Poles got tired of their shit.

  57. Anonymous[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Kratoklastes

    What’s FOMC? What’s kompromat?

    I assume beyond meat is that fake meat the capitalist pigs want us proles to eat once they reduce to starvation wages?

  58. Anonymous[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Lot

    It’s very well known to historians. In fact, not only did the Jewish estate managers have the power to physically punish the serfs and even free laborers but had the right to execute them.

    Physical punishment of serfs employees and even enlisted military was common all over the world But Poland was the only country in the world where the estate managers virtually all Jews had the right to execute the serfs.

    Demanding internet links to everything of which you’re ignorant indicates an ignorant person. Start educating yourself from a variety of sources.

  59. Anonymous[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon 2

    It’s already happening. Not may suffer but is suffering. Remember, it’s the country’s elites that always do this. The situation in early modern poland was similar to the Indian marharajas turning the running of their states over to Portuguese English French, whoever sailed into the harbor and offered to take the work off the elites hands in exchange for a share of taxes and profits.

  60. @Colin Wright

    The whole ‘Jews are a genetically separate group’ thesis flies in the face of everything we know about human behavior and all the history we have.

    In A Troublesome Inheritance, Nicholas Wade makes clear that Ashkenazis are distinct genetically from other Europeans. That’s beyond dispute. He also makes an impressive case that the higher IQ of Ashkenazis and the variety of genetic diseases that afflict them are related, that the latter somehow enable the former.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
  61. Anonymous[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    Many Polish jews didn’t speak Polish. Many Polish jews didn’t speak Yiddish or knew Hebrew other than a few religious words.

    According to Polish jews I’ve known who lived in Poland before WW2

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  62. Anonymous[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @utu

    Thanks. So church and state used Jews to fight Germans.

  63. @Anon 2

    I Agree. Partition is similarly in America’s future, tho probably triggered internally, not externally, as nativists reclaim their birthright. Likely with western Canada joining in after they too partition.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  64. Seraphim says:

    Probably De Gaulle added some strong expletives to […], which were currently used when talking about […], both by the French and by all the Eastern Europeans who had to bear for centuries with the […] arendars, publicans, loan sharks, tricksters and ‘revolutionaries’.

  65. utu says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    “There are a number of contradictory claims in this thread.” – Correct. But that is what you get when you construct sentences with plural Jews as subject. But there are no contradictions in these claims because all of them are true.

    There was fraternization with Poles as Jewish intelligentsia was assimilating in late 19 century. Even earlier when Frankists went through mass conversions to Catholicism in 18 centuries and gained gentry status and eventually ended up being mixed and diluted in next 100 or so years.. They converted not because of the pressure by Catholic priests and persecution by gentiles but because of persecution by Orthodox Jews whom they called the Talmudists and as the only way to escape the jurisdiction of Jewish autonomous courts who could prosecute them for heresy.

    The majority of Jews were Hasidim who often lived in poverty and yes, dirt and filth. And then there were many Jewish businesses and Jewish industrialists who were very rich. They were all Jews though often they did not see eye to eye with each other but to gentiles they were all Jews and when push came to shove during times of conflict various Jewish groups usually showed solidarity with each other against the gentiles.

    Jewish live was extremely rich and diversified in Poland. You would be amazed how many there were Jewish schools, theaters, publishing houses and newspaper that used as language Yiddish, Hebrew, Polish or German in pre WW II Poland and how many Jewish political parties there were from anarchism, communism, through socialism and zionism to national-socialism.

    There were Jews on Jews pogroms like Alfonse Pogrom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfonse_Pogrom that were similar to battles we know from Gangs of New York. There was Jewish criminal world which spread its influence to criminal jargon in Russian and Polish criminal world that is used till now. Odessa and Warsaw were centers of Jewish organized crime. Then there were little towns shtetls that were 70-90% Jewish in Eastern Poland what is now in Ukraine and Belarus. They did not speak Polish or Ukrainian there because they did not need to.

    This world defies description because it is deformed by Jewish apologists on one side and anti-Semites on the other side and then it is overshadowed by the heavy cloud of Holocaust. This world is all gone. All is left are distortions and the half-truth Haggadah.

    • Agree: Colin Wright
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  66. Wally says:
    @utu

    You just admitted that so called”Nazi propaganda films” were not “propaganda” as that word is used today.

    I suggest CODOHs search capability here: http://www.codoh.com

    Cheers.

  67. Vojkan says:

    Guillaume, are you positive that BHL is Polish Askenazi? I assumed as he was born in Tlemcen in a Jewish family long established in Algeria that had rabbis in its ranks (and that was universally loathed by everybody south of the Mediterranean long before the Libya affair), that he was sephardic. That said, in my experience sephardic Jews do indeed appear less filled with hatred than the Ashkenazi. Moreover, the last politician who could arguably be deemed gaullist in the French nominally gaullist party that kept changing names – UDR – RPR – RMP – LR – until it lost all its gaullist substance, was a sephardic Jew from Tunisia, the late Philippe Séguin.

    • Replies: @Iris
    , @Guillaume Durocher
  68. Vojkan says:
    @Bartolo

    You are missing Finkielkraut’s Jewish supremacism and moral relativism. Finkie is a clever guy. He knows where the danger in France comes from. His fellow Ashkenazi hate France with passion, so they side with every enemy of France even if that enemy hates them too. Finkie isn’t blinded by passion so he “sides” with patriots.

  69. @Parisian Guy

    The power physically goes in the hands of the best army chief.

    Depends. Westmoreland was the best public relations General in the Army at the time. He was given what was thought to be a simple job by Democratic hacks in DC, and blew it completely. For one thing, he completely neglected the NVA. For another, he never insisted on unified command. etc. Abrams did a much better job, but it was too late. Maybe it had always been too late, and the basic error was in the civil sector, confusing the next election with international strategy.
    OTH, Duke Wellington was an excellent commander during the Napoleonic Wars. However, he was so little trusted that the British Government made him semi-permanent Ambasador to France, a decision that Wellington said he understood and that I (at least) think he did. Wellington wanted political stability in the UK as much as his government did.
    In any case, the _first_ thing that governments thing about in matters military is that the military could overthrow the government in any one day interval. Government usually doesn’t want that to happen. As a result, it’s controllability first, then competence.
    Some say this has gone to extremes in the current force. Certainly, under POTUS Obama the US military was treated as though it was a semi-hostile entity about to stage a coup.
    Fun and games, guys. Be more fun if people didn’t become casualties, and it never _stops_.

    Counterinsurgency

    • Replies: @Parisian Guy
  70. @Sin City Milla

    I know this thesis (inbreeding for higher IQ). But, as we all know, cousin marriage & similar arrangements lead only to the rise of imbecility.

    How could Jews, without knowledge of genetics, in-breed with the effect of rising IQ? Even now, we don’t know any way of procreating through (partial) incest that would result in smarts, not morons.

  71. @Anon 2

    All baloney. The jews are a parasitic group and always kill their host.

    • Replies: @anon
  72. Anonymous[305] • Disclaimer says:
    @Walt

    Every Jew I have ever known has been profoundly ethnocentric in a sneaky way and very two-faced. I freely admit I would be unable to sort the ‘good’ from the bad.

    • Replies: @anon
  73. Anonymous[305] • Disclaimer says:
    @Colin Wright

    ‘For a group that makes up two-tenths of one percent of humanity, ‘

    Don’t kid yourself there are vast amounts of crypto jews.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @anon
    , @Loren
  74. Anonymous[305] • Disclaimer says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    ‘How could Jews, without knowledge of genetics, in-breed with the effect of rising IQ? ‘

    Oh for gods sale.

    Are you really this dishonest?

    Specialise in jobs requiring literacy and boil off those who lack the smarts. Redirect reproduction to the smartest and richest.

    Rinse and repeat.

    Clearly Ashkenazim did something different than other Jews.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
  75. Anonymous[305] • Disclaimer says:
    @Colin Wright

    ‘still less that we should subscribe to some of the fantastic prescriptions of our resident anti-Semites.’

    I am one such resident.

    Why not?

  76. ” These people, when left to their own devices, are good for nothing, and the worst is that they think they are excellent at everything. ”

    I though Monsieur De Gaulle was speaking of the famous American negro.

  77. @Anon

    That seems quite bizarre to me.I know some Jews who appear to believe in God and/but are assimilated as you would expect of those whose school education was at leading private schools or one of the two main selective high schools (which today are no doubt full of Chinese but were never very Jewish simply because the Jewish population was relatively small.). But most Ashkenazi Jews, not least in Israel, are secular if not atheist. They would laugh derisively at the idea of carrying out scriptural mandates. Maybe your experience teaches you something different but I can’t imagine where you get it from.

    Mind you I do find Jewish ethnic solidarity difficult to understand other than perhaps because of Israel’s precarious rise and the feeling that when push comes to shove you have to be for or against and they choose for.

    • Replies: @Wally
  78. @Anonymous

    How do you identify them?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Wally
  79. Merci Guillaume pour cette perle. Selon le biographe Eric Roussel (Charles de Gaulle, Gallimard, 2002), le mot coupé était « youpins ».
    C’est en tout cas ce que dit Eric Brunet dans L’Obsession gaulliste: Alain, François, Nicolas, Marine et les autres (que j’ai consulté sur books.google)
    Cordialement

  80. @Bardon Kaldian

    You ignore the possibility that inbreeding can produce superior and inferior offspring even from the same two parents. If the child receives tow damaging recessive mutant genes it may be retarded but it may have siblings who get only the good genes and are brilliant. If only the smart one’s are encouraged to reproduce, or find it possible to do so, there is logically a good chance that they will breed up for smarts.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
  81. @utu

    That is all much too complicated for UR’s regular anti- Semites. It could blow their minds.

  82. anon[303] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    There are vast amounts of crypto jews, and they say stupid shit like “we are the circumcision.”

  83. anon[303] • Disclaimer says:
    @joeshittheragman

    The jews are a parasitic group and always kill their host, but only because the Gentile host fervently believes that they owe it to the Jews,” as the Holy Hook states.

  84. @Anon 2

    I trust it will be different in Australia where the social temperature is a lot lower and for at least another decade or so the rise of Asia, particularly China, is going to allow all Australians to continue to be indulged if not quite up to the all round 200 per cent sense of entitlement. I wonder how far asssimilation by intermarriage is going to ensure that divisions are more of class than race? What is the probability that a smart Chinese female lawyer in a top firm who has been educated in Australia will make sure she marries someone of Han ethnicity? Not even 50 per cent I guess. Mind you I don’t have any idea about the way caste works for Indians in Australia. I guess a fair number of young people who came as students stay on to escape it. At least we don’t (I think) have the problem of 120+ years ago that inspired the White Australia Policy. That was predominantly, though not only, a white Labor union cause to protect members against competition from cheap labour.

  85. @Anonymous

    “Didn’t speak Yiddish”?? What did they speak? (Hebrew had indeed hardly been reinvented for the modern world before WW1).

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  86. Anon[436] • Disclaimer says:
    @Triumph104

    It must be all lies because Wally can’t explain the whole of such a population deficit by 1945 by typhus.

  87. anon[303] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    Profoundly ethnocentric, true, but also two-faced, as you say.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  88. Miro23 says:
    @Colin Wright

    ‘…In a list I saw a while ago, non-Jewish Poles also have the highest estimated AJ ancestry of any European group…’

    …and Netanyahu looks remarkably like various recent Polish gentile politicians.

    That’s true enough. Put Netanyahu in a Krakow street and he wouldn’t get a second glance. Put him in Semitic Cairo and the locals would notice that there was a European amongst them.

  89. Loren says:
    @Anonymous

    How many crypt jews?
    and what is a crypto jew? Kerry? The ‘latina’ on the SCOTUS?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  90. @Anon 2

    Mostly correct, plus some other positive Jewish figures (Feliks Perl in politics for Polish independence, Bruno Schulz in literature, Kuratowski and Tarski i mathematics etc.).

    But, when you take a big picture, it is evident that (Yiddish as a Germanic language?), Jews were basically alien & stayed an alien group, most of them. Jews had been patriots, as far as I can tell, in only two nations: Germany & to a lesser extent Hungary (and even there, there was something “German” about them).

    In past 250 years, on a global level, Jews successfully assimilated & emotionally identified with only one cultural sphere, German. For instance, Dreyfus affair was about, among other things, about Ashkenazi Jews being potentially German & promoting German interests.

    I know that there were successful & prominent Jews in Italy, Holland,England, France …later in Soviet Russia – but, generally, they seem to have thoroughly assimilated, prospered & promoted German cultural & historical sphere. It is obvious I think.

    Now, most Jews -apart from Israel- live in various parts of Anglo-sphere, but they don’t seem, as a group (or assembly of groups) to have that emotional connection to Anglo heritage or identity. Unlike it was the case with Deutschtum from, say, 1770 to 1940.

  91. Little bit simplistic but true.
    Jews were never normal people, and part of the nation.
    The always went from oppressed people to ruling people.

  92. @Anonymous

    This is nonsense. With incest, you’ll get only morons. There would be no people at all for some smart sectors of life. Only idiots.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  93. AaronB says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Its because the Germans are the most mystical, Romantic, and least addicted to strict rationality, of the West European people’s.

    • Replies: @jeff stryker
  94. @Wizard of Oz

    Where did you get this? With incest you get only idiots in the long run. There is no “brilliance” through incest, I’ve never seen that anyone claims such a thing.

    In the case of Jews, they are inbred to some degree, but the most reasonable explanation for their success in some fields is that they valued intellectual professions so that rich people gave their daughters to scholars who, in turn, procreated more than the rest & that’s why more intelligent people got more progeny- unlike Christians, whose intellectual elite was childless for more than a millennium and a half (and it must be noted that in Protestant countries clergyman’s sons are way over-represented in science & intellectual professions).

    So, to me it is simple: scholars were valued & had more children than average poor mediocre Shlomo. It’s not inbreeding, because if it were a custom that distinguished rabbis procreate with close cousins- they would have ended up with a bunch of morons, not only with specific genetic diseases, but basically dumb sons & daughters.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Wizard of Oz
  95. Miro23 says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    In the past, “British” was used to describe an ethnic group indigenous to the island, but they are now called the Welsh.

    True enough. When Julius Caesar invaded Britain, no one there spoke English. He fought the “Old British” who spoke Welsh, and they’re still there, hanging on in the remote mountains of North Wales (speaking incomprehensible Welsh) while the rest of the UK speaks English – a variant of German introduced by later Anglo Saxon invaders/settlers.

    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
  96. Anonymous[305] • Disclaimer says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    ‘With incest, you’ll get only morons.’

    Ask the Rothschild family. Still wealthy after all these years. It was about 4 generations before they even started marrying other Jews. Yes they might have produced more genetic casualties than normal but they are still here and oh so very rich.

    Nice blithe dismissal by the way, shows you are being dishonest.

    • Replies: @Robjil
  97. Anonymous[305] • Disclaimer says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Facial features. When you see two celebrities who look exactly the same eg stephen colbert (supposedly Irish) and bob saget (jew) you are looking at crypto jews.

    In everyday life say something which is both funny and anti-semitic. Now it cannot be something cliche like the circumcision joke about 20 percent off. It has to be something incisive and which shows that you have thought about the Jewish question as well as being cutting enough to be funny. If the people you are with start treating you differently push it a little further and criticise Israel a couple of times. Not too much but just enough. You will be able to tell that they have put you in a different mental category and are being subtly hostile to you. Crypto jews will rarely if ever pull you on your shit openly, they will just try to sabotage you.

    Just remember that through the years Jews have been a highly successful fertile population and that almost any ideology/religion can be adopted by them to further thier genetic groupsicles. Where you find one you will find others. Perception is the key.

  98. Anonymous[305] • Disclaimer says:
    @Loren

    ‘How many crypt jews?’

    Vast amounts in Spain and Portugal as well as Germany and Poland. Also many in South and central America. Cannot give an accurate amount for obvious reasons.

    ‘and what is a crypto jew? Kerry? The ‘latina’ on the SCOTUS?’

    These are rather obvious examples many are more subtle but yes.

  99. Anonymous[305] • Disclaimer says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    ‘It’s not inbreeding, because if it were a custom that distinguished rabbis procreate with close cousins- they would have ended up with a bunch of morons, not only with specific genetic diseases, but basically dumb sons & daughters.’

    Congratulations for adopting macdonald’s model and using it yourself. I think it is clear by inbreeding we mean group consanguinity.

    Sigh.

  100. Anonymous[305] • Disclaimer says:
    @anon

    I dont get it.

  101. Wally says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    They have identified themselves.

    – The alleged number of Jews is complete nonsense. There are many, many more then they let on.
    Most Jews are not ‘religious’ so they do not say they are Jews in questions about religion. They consider themselves Jews nonetheless. They want you to think they are so few & helpless victims when in fact they create massive resentment towards themselves by their owns actions.

    Exclusive: Ethnicity option on next census could show 400,000 Jews in UK
    https://jewishnews.timesofisrael.com/exclusive-ethnicity-option-on-next-census-could-show-400000-jews-in-uk/

    The US Census is prohibited from counting ‘Jews’ and all US federal, state and local governments are similarly disallowed from ‘noticing’ Jewish formation and over representation.
    ==
    The Talmud states multiple times that it is forbidden to directly count the Jewish people. The clearest biblical source for this prohibition seemingly stems from the half-shekel payments made by each Israelite before the building of the Tabernacle.
    “When you take a census of the Israelite people… each shall pay the Lord a ransom for himself on being enrolled that no plague may come upon them…” (Exodus 30:12). While talk of ransom (kofer) implies protection from previous sins, most understand the payment as necessary to prevent harm from the census.
    https://www.jpost.com/Jewish-World/Jewish-Features/Ask-the-Rabbi-May-Israel-conduct-a-census
    ==

    [MORE]

    According to Jewish law Jews are to avoid being counted.
    “To actually count Jews directly is forbidden (Talmud, Yoma 22b), as the prophet says: “And the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which shall neither be measured nor counted.”
    http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/896203/jewish/Laws-of-Counting-Jews.htmand

    Why is it forbidden to count Jews?
    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/18472

    “This opening verse of our Biblical portion teaches that it is forbidden to take a number count of the Israelites, a census activity which Jewish organizations are constantly involved in doing. This prohibition is reinforced by the prophet Hosea (chapter 2), when he declares: “The number of the children of Israel shall be as the sands of the sea, which cannot be numbered and cannot be counted…” And historically even King David learned the bitter lesson of the power of this command, when- against the will of his Chief Commander Joab – he ordered a census, and the Israelites suffered a plague (II Samuel, 24).”

  102. Che Guava says:
    @Walt

    In my time in a ‘western’ nation, at first, I didn’t even know what

    • Replies: @Che Guava
  103. Robjil says:
    @Anonymous

    Empathy morons is what our rulers are.

    Rothschilds and their ilk are empathy morons. They created a moronic culture lacking empathy. All of humanity and the earth is being destroyed because of their being empathy morons.

    Seven nations to destroy is an extreme lack of empathy. What one does to others is like a boomergang, it goes right back at you.

    • Replies: @WhiteWolf
    , @Vojkan
  104. @Bardon Kaldian

    ‘In past 250 years, on a global level, Jews successfully assimilated & emotionally identified with only one cultural sphere, German’

    They never assimilated. They were still remarkably resentful of thier German hosts. They liked Germany but only because it was more advanced than thier eastern shitholes. They used to design thier synagouges to look like mosques for this very reason. The fake doctrine of the ‘Islamic golden age’ (lol) was invented and spread by these very same people. See Heinrich Graetz and his disgusting comments on German history etc.

  105. @Counterinsurgency

    Your exemple is interesting. I find it correlates to my idea, which deserved a more accurate definition.

    I mean, The need of the best general was not extreme when Westmoreland got power. It was not a life/death question for the survival of USA. Would he had gotten real power in time of real danger?

    The history of De Gaulle is the inverse: he was as bad at PR for himself than he was gifted about warfare. When WW1 finished, he was sent to ancilliary function such as this work in Poland that Durocher tells us about.
    When WW2 fight began to turn bad for France, De Gaulle was called back to high position with autonomy. He did perform well. (But it was too late to reverse the trend). After the defeat, for those wanting a chief to continue fighting, De Gaulle was naturally the real thing.

    • Replies: @Counterinsurgency
  106. iffen says:
    @Colin Wright

    For a group that makes up two-tenths of one percent of humanity, Jews do require a remarkable amount of attention.

    Another way to look at it is that they are probably not too far off the mark based upon their % of the intelligentsia.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  107. @Miro23

    I hope you are joking. Julius Caesar foot never did touch England soil.
    It was Claudius Caesar who led first attempt to conquer England. Caligula had the first idea of conquest and he led the Roman legions to the shores of Normandy, but than he changed his mind and returned to Rome. Roman emperor who did conquer half of England was Vespasian. He was first Emperor of not descending from Caesar Julius clan.
    Two German clans Anglos and Saxons later invaded England. Their language become the base of English language.

    • Replies: @Miro23
  108. El Dato says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    https://mises.org/library/german-question

    In “The German Question” by Wilhelm Röpke (written 1946), we find:

    “On the German National Character”

    p.20.

    [MORE]

    And again and again the Germans’ effort has been fruitless — so much so that the whole history of Germany until 1866 (the year in which Germany ceased to exist, making way for a Greater Prussia) may be described as simply a history of frustration. Nowhere is it more natural than on Swiss soil to note how close together lie here the two opposite examples of a federalization that succeeded and one that failed throughout a thousand years — Switzerland and Germany, two countries bearing much the same relation to each other as two animals subjected to biological experiment, one of them receiving a particular vitamin and the other not. An obvious question, however, is whether there is not a danger that the ultimate consequences of the German fiasco might have very undesirable repercussions on the success of any tolerably sound political, economic, social, and spiritual structure in other countries. What that implies will be considered later.

    Let us hold on to the fact that the Germans, who today have become odium generis humani, are a people with whom fate has played a more evil game than with any other — fate and their own failure. What is worst of all is that this unique history — above all in its last and most fateful hundred years — has left deep traces in the German character that have made the Germans one of the most complex and problematic and, in the end, one of the best-hated of all nations. Thus, on top of all their other troubles, they have to bear the dislikeof the rest of the world, which still further worsens their situation. In this, as in so many other things, they strikingly resemble another tragic nation of world history, the Jews; this has been noted again and again by acute observers, and is probably the final cause of the quite peculiar relation between Germans and Jews, which departs from normal to fall now into hatred and now into liking.(1)

    (1) Since we have touched on the exceedingly complicated relationship between Germans and Jews, we may also recall that again and again during the first world warthere were attempts in the Allied countries to account for Germany’s unattractive traits as due not only to a “Prussification,” but also to a “Judification.” Max Scheler in his interesting book on the origin of Anti-Germanism (Die Ursache des Deutschenhasses, Leipzig 1917, p. 114) was also driven to deal with that change. Cf now Karl Thieme “Das Schicksal der Deutschen, ein Versuch seiner geschichtlichen Erklärung.” Basle, 1945, p.35. We may quote Goethe as the greatest precursor of the view expressed in the text. He remarked to Riemer that “the antipathy of peoples against the Jewish type of humanity, an antipathy in which esteem increases distaste, is really to be compared only with another — that against the Germans, whose destined role and whose inward and outward situation among peoples reveal the most astonishing kinship with those of the Jews. He did not want, he said, to enlarge on the subject, but, he said, he confessed that at times he was overcome by a breath-taking fear that one day the united world hatred against the other salt of the earth, Germandom, would be liberated in a historic uprising.

    p.105.

    We have mentioned the brooding element in the nature of the Germans, and from here we come to the seriousness and the moodinessof the German, which may grow into melancholy or evaporate intopessimistic humour. This is another cause of the German’s “thoroughness,” the German’s pedantry, but also of the German’s objectivity, the German’s energy and devotion to his task. The German depreciation of form in favour of the naked reality of any matter has also one of its roots here. Thus the German frequently lacks the element of simplicity, which he finds so attractive in the Italian, whereas he himself has to reflect upon everything, to work up everything into a theory. He likes constructing theories and systems, and he is half won to any cause if it is placed before him with all the weightiness of a metaphysic or a Weltanschauung. Karl Marx was just as German as the mass of his followers, who swore by his fat books, and the same way to the heart of the German, through a Weltanschauung, was taken later by the Nazis with fateful success.

    Hence the lecturing, pedagogical style of the German, and hence his habit, so amusing to other nations, of considering everything in advance down to the smallest detail, so that, for instance, he will not buy a car until he has studied a textbook of motoring. Hence the type of German who, finding two doors, one marked “Entrance to Paradise,” and the other “Entrance to Lecture on Paradise,” makes for the latter. This is the soil on which, especially in Germany, the modern type of the conscientiously laborious man could thrive, after Protestantism had given the final and decisive impulse to that end. ”I have simply to pay for being a German; it is characteristic of the Germans that they become so heavy about everything, that everything weighs so heavily upon them.” So Goethe made one of his women characters speak, and every German knows how right he was. It is a moodiness, a touch of melancholy, that one finds even in a Viennese waltz with its “sunny pessimism,” while at the other end of the scale we find it in the form of peevishness, of simple ill-humour, and of an absurd solemnity over trifles (over the affairs, say, of a rabbit fanciers’ club) — all traits that mark the German.

  109. Skeptikal says:
    @falcemartello

    “but by the oligarchical class of England in the turn of the 1800’s ”

    Can you provide some sources on this?
    Thanks.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  110. Skeptikal says:
    @Anonymouser

    “They liked Germany but only because it was more advanced than thier eastern shitholes. ”

    No, you are wrong. Or, call it ignorant.
    That would be like saying that, say, Italian or French Americans only like the USA because it is better than their Italian shitholes. Descendants of Italian immigrants have forgotten about the shitholes their great-grandparents escaped. Or know their country of original in a hazy, nostalgic light.
    Many Jews were in Germany for generations and were thoroughly culturally assimilated.
    They were GERMANS.

  111. Anonymous[548] • Disclaimer says:
    @Laurent Guyénot

    And “youpins” = yids

  112. @Kratoklastes

    As a derivatives guy I take issue with your hallucinations about the bond boys. 007 they aint. Duration isn’t rorockrorocketrorockrorocket science

  113. @Anonymouser

    Huh?

    https://harpers.org/blog/2007/07/the-pity-of-it-all/

    The chronicle of German anti-Semitism is wound very artfully through the text, with an interesting use of the writings of Heinrich Graetz. I studied with Graetz’s granddaughter, and spent some time in his archives. I remember at one point coming across his collection of materials on anti-Semitism. There were certainly materials from Germany, but the focus of the collection and his own concerns was elsewhere: anti-Semitism was a problem associated with France; Germany in general was presented as the success story. This helps explain the strong self-assurance that German Jews of this golden era felt. They considered themselves Germans. And indeed, one of their faults was certainly a measure of hostility directed against their co-religionists. There were few slurs hurled more heavily by the German Jews who had arrived as those against the Ostjuden. This is a fact to which Elon gives no more than a passing mention.

    [MORE]

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
    , @Anonymous
  114. @iffen

    ‘For a group that makes up two-tenths of one percent of humanity, Jews do require a remarkable amount of attention.’

    Another way to look at it is that they are probably not too far off the mark based upon their % of the intelligentsia.

    Well, the argument there could be construed as circular; don’t at least some members of the intelligentsia join it out of a need for attention?

    However, let’s grant your point. Suppose Jews actually should receive attention at a whole order of magnitude higher than they do; that would be 2%. They get a lot more than 2% of our attention, too.

    • Replies: @Counterinsurgency
    , @iffen
  115. @Parisian Guy

    It was not a life/death question for the survival of USA.

    Well, turns out it was. Botching the intervention in Vietnam destroyed the US ability to draft its population for military service. Note that the draft was abandoned after Vietnam and has never been tried again — it would be political suicide for those ordering it. You could say that the US slide to the Left and the late 1960s were made possible by Westmoreland’s discrediting the Republicans’ willingness to use military force, or you could say that the Left had been running the bureaucracy since the late 1930s and Westmoreland’s blunders made a bet by the Left that allying with the North Vietnamese government against the Republican political party pay off, both amount to the same.

    The assumption behind most of the comments here is that government can and would want to pick competent military under any conditions. Frankly, I don’t think that’s possible. In the run-up to WW I the US proved incapable of selecting good combat commanders. In the runup to WW II, quite independently of the US political establishment, picked what it thought would be good combat commanders, adjusted its choices once the fighting had started, and and that worked out better than the WW I experience. Politicians picking a good military leader is like executives picking out a good engineer – they pick people like themselves very time. It’s only after serious foul-ups that politicians sometimes learn not to try that.

    As I understand matters, DeGaul ended up as a politician who unsuccessfully tried to restore French autonomy over US opposition after WW II. From some of the American Pravda articles on the end of WW II I would expect DeGaul to have been something like Nixon in that he was or seemed to be a counter to the Left that attempted to become the French government after WW II, but whose influence was destroyed by the bureaucracy after he left office (which would make him a Thatcher analog). Is that about right, or am I interpolating wrongly?

    Counterinsurgency

    • Replies: @Parisian Guy
  116. @Skeptikal

    That would be like saying that, say, Italian or French Americans only like the USA because it is better than their Italian shitholes.

    Dunno where you found those Italians. The ones I’ve run up against are still Italian, and suffering from the same refusal to trust and be true to trust that has made Italy, Italy (and to a lesser extent, the Arab lands, the Arab lands). The argument “we eat better here” was quite prominent back even in the 1960s, and so was the theme that “the US has solved the political problem”. Even back then, contemporary disintegration showed that the political problem wasn’t solved, and since then it’s become a twitter mob offense to even suggest that the political problem was solved. That’s “insensitive”, don’t you know, while twitter mobs are sensitive.

    Teddy Roosevelt probably had no alternative to the “Melting Pot” theory except yet another Civil War, but it isn’t working out now and it has already been discarded by the bulk of the population, whichever side they’re on. The above assertions about Italians simply takes it to the next level of the obvious.

    Counterinsurgency

    • Replies: @utu
  117. Che Guava says:
    @Walt

    In my time in a ‘western’ nation, at first, I didn’t even know what ‘jewish’ meant. They were very active in campus politics, but I never met any. A very closed group, all from wealthy backgrounds. I was an honours student at the time, eventually it struck me that it was strange that I had never met any of them.

    The definitive point for me, was that a friend in the indie rock scene had a Jewish friend.

    We were invited to dinner one night, what a painful experience. They were polite, and the kosher food was good. Still, it was obvious that they were irritated that the daughter had invited two goyim.

    The father, in a well-paid government sinecure.kept complaining about how he should have been a major composer of symphonies.

    In his extremly privileged position, he had plenty of time to do it, if he had it in him, he clearly did not.

    So, that was really my first real learning experience.

    I have to balance that with an expert film-buff, Sephardi or Mizrahi, who was a good friend, spoke with a Woody Allen accent, very hairy.

    Then counter-balance that with, back in Japan, the Israeli invasion of my rooming housd back in Tokyo, I could not help but thinking ‘if a group of young SS adults were here, they would be speaking in a more gentle way than the Israelis.’

    Thankfully, the govt. long ago decided to throw Isrraeli men (running illegal street stalls, mainly junk jewellery aod women working illegally as hostesses out.

  118. @Colin Wright

    Suppose Jews actually should receive attention at a whole order of magnitude higher than they do; that would be 2%. They get a lot more than 2% of our attention, too.

    I still say that the Jewish establishment is in large part a distraction. They haven’t the manpower to run the US any more than they had the manpower to run the old USSR.
    Try talking to a member of the New England intelligentsia and you’ll find a mindset remarkably similar to that of the old time Abolitionists. “A am a Master of this College. What I don’t know isn’t Knowledge!” is the general approach, and the ideology is remarkably similar to that of the Abolitionists: “This group has been treated badly, by you, you miserable wretch, and I’m going to protect that group even if it means beating you half to death” (or siccing a Twitter mob, these days).

    I’ve worked at quite a few colleges, and that was the predominant threat at each and every one of them, even the predominantly Jewish colleges (although they had other hazards). Same with corporations — New Englanders in management were deadly, the sort of rock ribbed and skulled people who gave the windows / mouse system to Apple.

    Two of the American Nations (Yankeedom and New Amsterdam, or New England and New York City) have allied to impose the current system upon the rest of the US. While Mexican influence, and that of thee Left Coast (LA to Seattle along a coastal strip) can’t be entirely left out, they’re junior partners. Don’t get distracted by the big noise and obvious foreigners, look at the large and inconspicuous bulk of the largest resistance.

    We need a better sense of reality, not the old “Punch and Judy” “bad jews/you’re a racist” business one so often sees.

    Counterinsurgency

    • Agree: Cleburne
  119. utu says:
    @Counterinsurgency

    “Melting Pot” theory – check Israel Zangwill’s role in creation of this theory.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Melting_Pot_(play)
    The Melting Pot is a play by Israel Zangwill, first staged in 1908. It depicts the life of a Russian Jewish immigrant family, the Quixanos. David Quixano has survived a pogrom, which killed his mother and sister, and he wishes to forget this horrible event. He composes an “American Symphony” and wants to look forward to a society free of ethnic divisions and hatred, rather than backward at his traumatic past.

    The Melting Pot opened in Washington, DC, on October 5, 1908. President Theodore Roosevelt, in attendance that night, is said to have shouted “That’s a great play, Mr. Zangwill.

  120. Anonymous[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    They spoke Polish and often German as German was the second language of Poland because of the numerous business people and contacts and because 2 German countries, Austria and Poland ruled Poland and colonized from mid 1700s right up to 1917.

    The estate managers had to talk to the Polish serfs and buyers of estate produce and animals. Farms have to sell their products like any other business don’t they? Store owners had to talk to customers and vendors. They all had to talk to Poles to buy railroad tickets file deeds titles birth and death records and other interactions with the subhuman unclean abominable goyim

    These are Jews who immigrated to America from Poland who told me this.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  121. @AaronB

    A GERMAN-AMERICAN EXPLANATION ON CROSS-CULTURAL OSMOSIS

    As a race Ashkenazi were relatively new when Rome fell and they migrated up into the Rhine. There was not much physical intermarriage with Germans, unlike the Italians whose DNA comprises 50% of the modern average Jew.

    But in cultural terms, Askenazi really began in Germany. Their food, their language, their culture, their schools of thought (Much of Marx’s theories were half-baked influences from Nietzsche and other German philosophers).

    Also in Eastern Europe Jews were always more ghettoized for lack of a better term and really did not interact to the same degree with the local population.

    It is sort of like the supposed overlap of Ulster Irish language and culture among African-Americans.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  122. Anonymous[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sin City Milla

    Because of the Chinese presence in Vancouver, I doubt British Columbia will ever split off from Canada to become part of a White Homeland.

    • Replies: @Sin City Milla
  123. utu says:
    @Skeptikal

    “They were GERMANS.” – N0, only those who converted to Christianity and then it took at least two generations. Reform Judaism was created in Germany for Jews to avoid conversion and appear civilized as it was modeled on some aspects of Lutheranism.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Skeptikal
  124. utu says:

    Balzac and the Jews
    https://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2019/06/07/balzac-and-the-jews/

    Avarice, lust for power and contempt for gentiles are psychological traits Balzac frequently ascribes to his Jewish characters, and they often serve as paradigms for the analysis of non-Jewish characters who manifest similar traits. One non-Jewish character is said to be as “eager for gain as a Polish Jew,” while in Lost Illusions the luckless and penniless poet, Lucian Chardon, is advised that, in order to succeed in Paris, he needs to become as “grasping and mean as a Jew; all that the Jew does for money, you must do for power.”

  125. @Bardon Kaldian

    You are being very obtuse and not answering the point I made apart from asserting in one form or another “With incest you get only idiots in the long run” which is just plain wrong. You just don’t let the dumb ones breed.

    As a reference to the Rothschilds has proved you don’t have to end up with only the stupid. A twentieth century professor at Cambridge was a pretty typical proof of that.

    And just to engage your imagination consider the breeding of thoroughbreds: 350 years of incest! Most are slow and end up as hacks or in the knackery but the performance of these inbred racehorses has gone on improving over the centuries.

  126. Anonymous[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Skeptikal

    Falcemartello means the English Israelites, the stone of scone brought to Scotland by Jewish angels after Abraham tried to kill his son, the fascination with biblical archeology and the fascination with Zionism of millions of English 19th century people.

    Biblical archeology emphasized proving all the OT stories were true. This must be Rachel’s well. This must be Solomon’s Temple.

    It was a big deal at the time. I think even Queen Victoria and other royals joined the British Israelites. Of course building the Suez canal to avoid going all around Africa to get to India and Australia was part of it. So was catching up with France and Spain after they got ME colonies Algeria Morocco Tunisia.

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
  127. @El Dato

    Yes, I couldn’t find it either though it led to some interesting illustrations of the casual anti-Semitism of the British upper classes and their associates like Keynes before the Nazis took power (and after to some extent).

  128. sally says:
    @Walt

    Modlin, [Poland, near Warsaw,] May 23, 1919

    My dearest Mum,

    Here the postal service is nonexistent, as is everything else. Literally everything remains to be done from top to bottom. The Russians, when they occupied this country, had systematically prevented the Poles from doing anything, whether in trade, industry, administration, or the army. These people, when left to their own devices, are good for nothing, and the worst is that they think they are excellent at everything.

    Missing is what the Zionist movement was all about.. The Zionist were bankers, traders, corporate chieftains, and most of all wealthy or educated people, indifferent to human needs) in search of loot in the form of monopolies. The superior by wealth and education Jews had a monopoly in trading east to west at Salonika (E W Indies corporations, etc.), these few were doing the same globally in many colonies, including America in 1776. All American colonies were land grant corporations. America, India, South America, Africa. and all over, but they were operating under cover of it was in the interest of the people of England and Switzerland for a few Bankers to use the resources of the UK to colonize, and take the goodies from the people in foreign lands, after all the few were entitled to be wealthy at the expense of everyone else. The colonial American rising (articles of confederation ) disposed of the British Jews in charge ( called British) but was itself disposed again by the British 13 years later, as Americans were once again, became subjected to the same Jewish dictated, from the top, rule of law this time called federalism) (but federalism destroyed democracy; it placed both decision authority and implements of force at the disposal of those very few who ruled).

    British Jewish Rule re-implemented itself in the USA constitution (the COUS separated and protected the few from the masses; it weaken the masses by dividing them into people containers (called states; and it extracted the power of the state into Federalism and it developed the two only party system); it destroyed the democratic Articles of Confederation ( an organization that put the popular demands of masses in control of the use of their own government.

    So after all of that, what was the goal of the Zionist that emerged from the Zionist congress? It goal was to take the oil from the Arabs. But how? They would weaponize immigration herd the Jews in diaspora in of Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungry etc.into the land of the Ottoman, make them frontiers men, and by population density and use of force, take the oil and the land that had the oil from the Ottoman. Hitler was part of that plan but his act would follow in WWII. The Agreement with British PM helped to make this happen remember Britain now occupied the Ottoman Palestine (its was called British Palestine) and the Federal Reserve Act and the US income tax were also part of that deal. Wilson made the American part happen.. See Paul Warburg, partner in wall street firm Kuhn, Loeb and Company, (Warburg was the go to authority on dealing with the European banking system and a very good friend of President Wilson, Wilson even nominated Warburg and Thomas Jones, then a board member of International Harvester.. to the federal reserve). And the income tax law (sixteenth amendment) was essential to the entire plan, since the revuenes and manpower of the American governed would gurantee the loans and manpower needs for WWI <its purpose to take the oil from the Ottoman and the land known as Palestine and Syria and Iraq and Saudi from the Ottoman.

    Two very important treaties made right after the first Jewish Congress, 1896 agreement of Russia with France to deprive the Germans and support each other in the event of war, and 1897 Agreement with USA that it would support France and UK against Germany, .. Basically it was a policy of containment, use of sanctions, and deprivation to weaken and force Germany into a war it could not win? Why? Because the Germans were already in bed with the Ottomans and already had agreements about railroads and oil with Ottoman. and the British and French were not part of those Agreements. See two books one written by Professor Roland Green Usher , Pan-Germanism 1913-14 and the other by the defeated Kasier himself, written after the war, My-Memoirs 1878-1918, Cassell and company, Ltd. London, NY, Toronto, and Melbourne, 1922..

    What's important about the quote is how the poor uneducated Jewish Poles were looked at by those who were educated.. It is easy to see how the educated, could devise a plan to use the uneducated for their take the oil from the Ottoman purpose.

    I think the Jews that were herded into Ottoman territory and who were basically forced into the position of being frontiers men in the mist of confusion of became of British Palestine and French Syria.

    but also the Zionism movement was designed to take Russia from the Christians.. That too happened by Linen and his Jewish Bolsheviks. 32 million white christian Russians died.. between 1919 and 1932.. now that was not a holocaust, it was a genocide.

  129. Anonymous[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @utu

    German Jewish historians claim the switch to Reform Judaism was because they realized its hard to do business with people if you think they and their food and even cups and dishes have cooties. To this day in American cities some ultra sects won’t even ride city buses because they come in contact with the abominable infidel goyim Every once in a while an ultra makes a huge fuss about sitting next to an abomination goy on an airplane, even El Al.

    Business wasn’t conducted solely in offices till the very late 19th century. Before that business was conducted in the back room of the shop, taverns and in the offices in businessmen’s homes.

    This often involved drinks sometimes food and often accepting a drink or food from an unclean shiksa of a wife or waitress. It was to make it acceptable to eat food prepared in an unclean infidel goy kitchen by unclean infidel shiksas

    • Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome
  130. @Anonymous

    You had confused me with your “Many Polish Jews didn’t speak Polish”.

  131. Miro23 says:
    @Ilyana_Rozumova

    When Julius Caesar invaded Britain, no one there spoke English. He fought the “Old British” who spoke Welsh.

    I hope you are joking. Julius Caesar foot never did touch England soil.
    It was Claudius Caesar who led first attempt to conquer England. Caligula had the first idea of conquest and he led the Roman legions to the shores of Normandy, but than he changed his mind and returned to Rome.

    In the course of his Gallic Wars, Julius Caesar invaded Britain twice: in 55 and 54 BC.[4] On the first occasion Caesar took with him only two legions, and effected little beyond a landing on the coast of Kent. The second invasion consisted of 628 ships, five legions and 2,000 cavalry. The force was so imposing that the Britons did not dare contest Caesar’s landing in Kent, waiting instead until he began to move inland.[3]Caesar now penetrated into Middlesex and crossed the Thames, forcing the British warlord Cassivellaunus to surrender as a tributary to Rome and setting up Mandubracius of the Trinovantes as client King.

    Wikipedia “Julius Caesar’s invasions of Britain” ?

  132. @Longfisher

    I get so damned tired of hearing about their special victimhood too.

  133. @Johan Vermeulen

    Fascinating. Please keep posting comments despite the trolls who visit here and try not to take them seriously although some can get pretty hostile.

    Many thanks.

  134. @Bardon Kaldian

    I know this thesis (inbreeding for higher IQ). But, as we all know, cousin marriage & similar arrangements lead only to the rise of imbecility.

    A standard method in animal breeding is to mate animals of the same litter over several generations. Apply ruthless selection — cull any of the sick ones, keep only the best male and female. Theory is that this selects strongly against recessive genes, doing the same thing that wolves do in a local breeding population with a small genetic pool. The end result of this (somewhat expensive) method is two healthy animals that can, quite often, express the “best” characteristic much better than the statistical average of the parent stock. One then breeds this inbred animal with the parent stock to get “hybrid vigor”.

    This method can be used to select any “best”, and has arguably ruined the standard German Shepard stock by breeding for a humped back.

    So, sure, it would work for humans. Probably did for the Europeans, breeding for Christian trust and against thieves and murderers. The problem is defining “best”. Islamics would find the European breeding program repulsive, as it does not produce warriors submissive to Allah, Chinese would find it repulsive as it does not breed for social order and loyalty (but rather for individual conscience), etc.

    Counterinsurgency

  135. PeterMX says:

    “I don’t know why the term of “Jews” has been marked “[…]” in the text. Did the publishers censor it? Or did De Gaulle bowdlerize himself?” It’s an interesting question. Where are the original letters held? If they are available for viewing it would be interesting to know. It could be the translator and or publisher or it could be a French government censor perhaps trying to protect de Gaulle’s name after the war, not wanting de Gaulle to appear “anti-Semitic”, or maybe someone removing the word “Jews” so it’s not clear who the General meant.

  136. @Brabantian

    The cheap labor on magnate estates were called serfs. The serfs were tied to the lands.

    As I ask the following question as an almost total ignoramus on the topic.

    I’m on shaky ground here because I have not studied the history, but did not the Czar, Alexander II abolish serfdom, and do you think that could have played some part in the eventual destruction of the Russian Empire?

    • Replies: @PeterMX
  137. @jeff stryker

    Ignorance or a slip? Delete Nietzsche and perhaps consider substituting Hegel.

    • Replies: @jeff stryker
  138. @Kratoklastes

    Dynamite comment, sir!

    He’s objectively a bright guy, but his “daily grind” simply does not permit him the time to devote to reading widely outside of his direct objectives.

    Your anecdote rings true and I’ve also noticed the phenomenon in many other (virtually all) other professionals that I’ve been closely associated with in one way or another. It’s like they’re all idiot savants. Not short on intelligence, but outside their fields, more igorant than a sack of stones.

    The worst part of it is that they think that since they are so intelligent and accomplished in one or two areas, that their opinions must be valid in many other areas as well. They all think they’re political and historical geniuses as well for some reason, yet they have enough sense to defer to an engineer, for instance if they want something built.

    BTW, WTH are “Beyond Meat” or an “Impossible Burgers” anyway?

  139. @utu

    So in the beginning the Jews were a tool of King and Church to overcome great autonomy that medieval cities enjoyed including exemption from paying taxes or refusal to raise money for military campaign.

    The plot thickens. Damn those goy pigs!

    No wonder the middles classes (at least in the US) are nearly dead if not completely extinct.

  140. @Jacques Sheete

    This is so true.
    My lifelong buddy is an engineer, high IQ, wealthy……but when it comes to the JQ
    he balks and calls it a CT.

    He really snapped when I tried to explain that jews are behind the muslim invasion. He laughed in my face!

    “Why would the jews want more muslims! Muslims hate jews! That doesn’t make any sense!”

    This man designed machines to make jet parts….but the JQ is out of his reach.

  141. @Counterinsurgency

    You may be interpolating correctly, but your datas weren’t right. I mean, Most things I can read from anglosphere about France looks false from my french point of view.

    May be that’s the reason why your comment looks like your were commenting about something else than France.

    -for instance, every French believes that DeGaulle, when he was president (1959-1969) repaired france autonomy against US (and those who cares believes also against Israël). We made our nuke. We left NATO. We suggested US bases to “go home”, which they did.
    We kept autonomy until 2007, when Sarkozy get elected. Then Holland was the Obama poodle. Every nationalist thinks Macron do a bit better than sarko and Holland.
    For the story, DeGaulle got positive trade balance. Then he used real $ to take gold from Us gold stock. The $ was still redeemable.

    DeGaulle did not thought so much about left/right. He was a conservative. In truth he was a monarchist who had no choice but to adapt to the reality of its time..
    Neither was it against bureaucracy. He was the opposite of a libertarian, and had no problem with involving the state in economy. Most of big state company (think railway, Air france, power utility, and so, and so) are not the accomplishment of left bureaucrat; It was made by DEGaulle in 1945 when being in power for one year after WW2. He was able to impose the confiscation of property because he was allied with communist.
    Another version says he needed the communist help to push US out of France government in 1945, therefore he had to give them the state company system.
    Here is the very secret key to understand France:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Council_of_the_Resistance#Programme

    I could go on. But all these are only bit of infos I got for some reasons. I never really studied DeGaulle.
    Thatcher is defenitely not of a model. Neither any of US Pres.
    Let’s say a quieter version of Poutin for international matter
    And a little bit of “Communism with French caracteristics”

    To get back to the initial topic: nobody ever feared “If we don’t pick right now the best general, the US will be totally invaded and lost”

    • Agree: Alfred, Iris
    • Replies: @Counterinsurgency
  142. aandrews says:

    http://dstormer6em3i4km.onion/big-tech-mass-recruiting-execs-from-israeli-military-intelligence/
    Big Tech Mass-Recruiting Execs from Israeli Military Intelligence

    Frei
    Daily Stormer
    June 23, 2019

    [MORE]

    This entire article at the leftist site MintPress News is worth reading. But here is the money shot.

    The connections between SUNC and Unit 8200 are troubling for more than a few reasons, one of which being that Unit 8200, often likened to the U.S.’ NSA, closely coordinates with Israel’s intelligence agency, the Mossad, and is responsible for 90 percent of the intelligence material obtained by the Israeli government, according to its former commander Yair Cohen. Cohen told Forbes in 2016, that “there isn’t a major operation, from the Mossad or any intelligence security agency, that 8200 is not involved in.” For obvious reasons, the fact that an organization founded by an American billionaire is actively promoting the presence of former military intelligence officers in foreign companies, specifically American companies, while also promoting the transfer of jobs and investment to that same country, is very troubling indeed.

    Particularly troubling is the fact that, since SUNC’s founding, the number of former Unit 8200 members in top positions in American tech companies has skyrocketed. Based on a non-exhaustive analysis conducted by Mintpress of over 200 LinkedIn accounts of former Israeli military intelligence and intelligence officers in three major tech companies, numerous former Unit 8200 alumni were found to currently hold top managerial or executive positions in Microsoft, Google and Facebook.

    At Microsoft, managers for at least 15 of the company’s products and programs — including Microsoft’s lead managers for engineering, product strategy, threat analytics and cloud business intelligence — publicly listed their affiliation with Unit 8200 on their LinkedIn accounts. In addition, the general manager of Microsoft’s Israeli Research and Development Center is also a former member of Unit 8200. In total, of the 200 accounts analyzed, 50 of them currently worked for Microsoft.

    Similarly, at Google, 28 former Unit 8200 members at the company were identified from their LinkedIn accounts. Among them are Google’s Engineering Director, its strategic partner manager, two growth marketing leads, its lead technical manager, and six product and program managers, including Google’s manager for trust and safety search.

    Facebook also has several Unit 8200 members in prominent positions, though fewer than Google and Microsoft. MintPress identified at least 13 Unit 8200 alumni working for Facebook, including its director of engineering, lead manager for express wi-fi, and technical program manager. Notably, Facebook has spent the last several years collaborating with Israel’s government to censor Israel’s critics.

    • Replies: @Robert Dolan
  143. Alfred says:

    In the 3 volumes of de Gaulle’s “Mémoires de guerre”, there is no mention of any holocaust of Jews.

    https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%A9moires_de_guerre

    The same is true for the voluminous writings of Winston Churchill and the lesser effort of Eisenhower.

  144. @aandrews

    White people are the new Palestinians.

  145. Hail says: • Website
    @Republic

    Where should we place De Gaulle on the EthnoNationalist-to-CivicNationalist spectrum? If far towards the civic nationalist side, his ‘nationalism’ may have really been counter-productive.

    The jury is still out on the 1930s-to-1945 period in general (to include any evaluation of De Gaulle’s role at that time); it looks like analysis of that period will still be clouded by (a deliberately-promoted) emotionalism into the 2020s.

  146. @Robert Dolan

    … he balks and calls it a CT.

    The term, CT really annoys me and they sling it around, parrot fashion, as if they have a clue and it’s the answer to nearly everything. Damn, I wanna smack ’em for mindlessly repeating that!

    I found it gratifying that even De Gaulle noticed something similar.:

    … and the worst is that they think they are excellent at everything.

  147. @Wizard of Oz

    WIZARD

    I don’t get the slip bit. You mean because that Charlie Chaplin lookalike also found Nietzsche inspirational? Share the joke.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  148. @utu

    Perhaps you are thinking of “Onward Christian Soldiers” by Donald Day?

    • Replies: @utu
  149. @Robert Dolan

    You may tell him the story of the scorpion and the frog.

    • Replies: @Jacques Sheete
  150. Skeptikal says:
    @Anonymous

    I don’t think this is what the OP meant.

    Wrong time frame. Are you the same person using two handles?

  151. Richard B says:
    @Digital Samizdat

    My experience with the hostile elite described in this article (and in some of the more perceptive and on target comments) has inspired an extension to the dictionary definition of Evil, ie;

    An individual or group with the power to effectuate the insane demand to be placed above criticism, loved unconditionally and blindly obeyed.

    • Agree: Robjil, Jacques Sheete
    • Replies: @Baxter
  152. Skeptikal says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Thank you, Baldian, for responding with some common sense.
    I too was going to reference “The Pity of It All”—except I don’t have to. I know the reality from my own family. I think I might know a bit more about this than Unbekanntemaus mit seinem Unsinn.

    But I can highly recommend “Pity”–very readable.

  153. @Anon

    In Rockland County NY masses of Hasidim live in enclaves where they turn their homes into “places of worship” and thereby are exempt from paying property taxes. It is not uncommon for families to have 10 children, who attend the religious schools where nothing but religion is taught after about the age of 12. In one Rockland County town, over 70% of the population, all Hasidim, is on welfare. They won’t assimilate, and are instead insular ignorant welfare gobblers. They refuse to communicate with their Goyim neighbors. These are lousy citizens, and not very nice people either.

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
    , @Jacques Sheete
  154. Skeptikal says:
    @utu

    “only those who converted to Christianity and then it took at least two generations. ”

    Wrong. Conversion not required.

    • Replies: @utu
  155. Joodie says:

    I remember hearing that Jews in pre-war Poland would tell the gentiles: “We own the buildings. You own the sidewalks.”

  156. Skeptikal says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    “Unlike it was the case with Deutschtum from, say, 1770 to 1940.”

    Absolutely correct.
    Surely the fact that Yiddish is a variety of German has something to do with this.

  157. utu says:
    @Hamlet's Ghost

    Thank you but no, it was not him.

  158. Marcus says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    Nationality means more than what passport you carry

  159. iffen says:
    @Colin Wright

    Think about it this way, CW. If Jews comprise 40% of the intelligentsia in the US, then we could expect to see 40% (or more) of the “attention” directed to Jews and their concerns.

    I’m not sure about the validity of your ideas concerning “joining” the intelligentsia.

  160. Iris says:
    @Bartolo

    It seems to me that Finkielkraut is pretty nationalism-friendly and that he has made considerable efforts to defend the historic French nation

    Finkielkraut is not “nationalist-friendly”; he does not give two hoots about France anyway.

    Die-hard French Zionists such as Finkielkraut and Eric Zemmour are merely taking control of the Alt-Right bandwagon because (1) it is raising as the most likely future Nr1 French political force due to the economic crisis (2) they need to capitalise on islamphobia to complete Israel’s grand design in the ME. This is Alain Soral’s thesis, and he clearly does not support them.

    Alain Soral, on the contrary, expressed his admiration for the work covertly accomplished in Italy by Silvio Berlusconi, who was able to bring together “extreme right” and “extreme left”, both genuine nationalists, within the same government. Sadly, this cannot happen in France.

  161. utu says:
    @Skeptikal

    You are wrong.

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
  162. @El Dato

    It’s a snappy quote, but inter-war Poland seems like just about the last place Keynes would be spending time.

  163. Baxter says: • Website
    @Richard B

    An individual or group why the power to effectuate ghettos insNe demand p be placed above criticism, loved unconditionally and obeyed,
    Yes, does appear a trend making its was through D sell as state legislators, deeming son w laggard ‘unacceptable,’
    Surprised soo Little ha been mage of it.

  164. @Hamlet's Ghost

    You may tell him the story of the scorpion and the frog.

    And expect nothing but a blank stare, or maybe a puzzled look.

  165. @Colin Wright

    I think “Fiddler on the Roof,” pretty much encapsulates the approved version of the Jewish experience in Eastern Europe. That is, they were just mensch peasants living off the land, engaging in their colorful traditions, and minding their own business. But then the czar would periodically sic his Cossacks on them for no particular reason. So, they emigrated to America . . .

    Anything deeper that this myth touches off a whole host of problematic issues.

    • Replies: @Jacques Sheete
  166. @Counterinsurgency

    Let’s hope that is one tutorial class on UR which has worked as it should. I don’t think BK is just up to employer subsidised evening classes at community college so you may be rewarded with unenlightenment dispersed.

  167. Iris says:
    @Vojkan

    I assumed as he was born in Tlemcen in a Jewish family long established in Algeria that had rabbis in its ranks

    Correct. Bernard-Henri Levy is purely Sephardic, born in Beni-Saf, Algeria. His grandfather was Rabbi of Tlemcen, and his father made a fortune thanks to modern slavery-based wood “commerce” he practiced in Western Africa.

    Philippe Seguin’s secret biological father was a Tunisian Sephardic Jew, but he was raised under the name and cherishing the memory of his mother’s husband, a French WW2 hero killed in combat when he was only one-year old.
    P. Seguin was indeed the last genuine patriot of stature within the French Right, side-lined by the rising Zio-Globalist fraction (Balladur & Sarkozy).

    • Replies: @Vojkan
  168. @Kratoklastes

    The only people in the hunt for any position of significant political power, are those over whom kompromat is held.

    That reminds me to ask what your opinion is of Varoufakis’ book, “Adults in the Room” if, of course, you’ve read it.

  169. @jeff stryker

    Nietzsche wasn’t,t born till Marx had been writing for years. Marx died shortly after Nietsche begsn his most productive decade.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  170. @Wizard of Oz

    ‘Nietzsche wasn’t,t born till Marx had been writing for years. Marx died shortly after Nietsche begsn his most productive decade.’

    ‘God is dead.’

    — Marx

    ‘Marx is dead.’

    — Nietzsche

  171. @Bardon Kaldian

    ‘How could Jews, without knowledge of genetics, in-breed with the effect of rising IQ? Even now, we don’t know any way of procreating through (partial) incest that would result in smarts, not morons.’

    I think, thinking about it carefully, we can see how Ashkenazim might have arrived at a higher group IQ without being particularly distinct from the gentiles around them — still less descended from some hypothetical race of brainiacs originally resident in Palestine (if that last was the case, actual Palestinians should have a median IQ of 130 or something).

    If we grant that Ashkenazi Jews always did esteem scholarly achievement, then of course those Ashkenazi Jews who had high IQ’s would find it congenial to remain Jews, and to breed up more Jews, and so on. Conversely, Milton the milkman, with his IQ of 95, might find the decidedly less intellectually demanding companionship of his gentile peasant neighbors more pleasant.

    So Jewry would keep selecting for smart Jews, and dumb Jews would disproportionately drift out of the Chosen People. This satisfactorily explains the data — without making a series of assumptions that fly in the face of everything we know about history and human nature. After all, no doubt MIT professors have a high group IQ. We don’t need to therefore assume they’ve been a genetically segregated caste since the Year Zero.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @renfro
  172. @Jacques Sheete

    The worst part of it is that they think that since they are so intelligent and accomplished in one or two areas, that their opinions must be valid in many other areas as well.

    This is definitely a thing: Very smart people frequently assume that what they believe must be true because . . . they are very smart, so they wouldn’t believe it if it wasn’t true.

    Problem is, they apply this heuristic to stuff that they mindlessly absorb as received wisdom, as well as to the things they have worked out independently for themselves based on data and logic.

    • Agree: Wizard of Oz
  173. PeterMX says:
    @Jacques Sheete

    I have never heard that before. But here Russian President Putin delivers a speech on the founders and first government of the Soviet Union.

    80-85% Of The First Soviet Government Members Were Jews

    I’m sure many, or even most Americans have heard the word “pogrom” and how Jews were supposedly persecuted in the Russian Empire. The Czar was a king and the Russian Empire was led by a king or queen. For decades prior to the Russian Revolution, Jews in Europe and the US began publicizing what they claimed was horrific violence against Jews in the Russian Empire that they called “pogroms”. These supposedly occurred in different cities far away from each other in the empire prior to the Russian Revolution in cities like Kiev and Kishinev. When you type Kishinev into the internet to do a Google search, the first entry that comes up is “Kishinev Pogrom”. I think many people in the US have also heard that Jews hated the Czar and the Czar was an “anti-Semitic”. What most people don’t know is that Jews founded and dominated the Soviet Union in the early years and that they murdered the Czar and his family. They would prefer this not be known. While this was successfully hidden from many or most people in the US and maybe some countries in Europe too, many countries in Europe, particularly Germany, Austria and most east European countries knew Jews dominated communism. So did Winston Churchill. He wrote an article about what he essentially described as a coup or takeover of Russia by Jews. Germany’s National Socialist government called the ideology of the Soviet Union “Jewish Bolshevism” and to this day, most Americans are completely ignorant as to why they called it that and will say “that’s what the NAZIS said”. Jews were unpopular in many parts of eastern Europe for their leading role in brutal communism.

    This Soviet government made two things illegal, which tells you a lot. It outlawed Christianity, the dominant religion of the Russian Empire and it outlawed “anti-Semitism”, or criticism of Jews. Jews also dominated the Soviet Secret police, the NKVD (and its other names). So, no, I don’t think abolishing serfdom was the downfall of the Russian Empire.

    The website theoccidentalobserver has many articles on Jews, the Russian Empire and pogroms. There were investigations carried out by other Europeans at the time these pogroms occurred and they revealed a gross exaggeration of the violence. Violence did occur. Many articles also describe the privileged position Jews had in the Russian Empire. They lived far better than the average “Russian” and the articles say the violence was due to ethnic competition between privileged Jews and less privileged Russians. By the way, many articles appeared all across the west in the media decrying the danger “six million” Jews were in under the Czar. I’m sure you recognize that number from something. This was many years before the “NAZIS” took power in Germany.

    • Agree: Robjil
    • Replies: @Jacques Sheete
    , @Anonymous
  174. Skeptikal says:
    @Winnetou1889

    Yes.
    Check out
    https://www.jta.org/2015/05/22/united-states/how-to-build-an-american-shtetl-see-bloomingburg-n-y

    Terrifying.
    Send them to Israel.
    Oh, no, then they will become settlers on the West Bank, equally supported by American tax dollars.
    How the hell to rid the American taxpayer of these freeloaders?

    • Replies: @Zumbuddi
    , @anon
  175. These people, when left to their own devices, are good for nothing, and the worst is that they think they are excellent at everything.

    Who knew Charles de Gaulle was so prescient about Californians of the twenty-first century in his correspondence from Poland all the way back in the early twentieth….

  176. Skeptikal says:
    @Colin Wright

    “Descendants of German Jews look Germanic,”

    Only if they intermarried with Gentiles.
    Most did not, and most of those look Jewish.
    If they were somewhat well off their looks are affected by their style (better-quality clothes) and relative athleticism.
    That is, many better-off Jewish Germans engaged in all of the athletic activities—hiking, skiing, swimming, boating, tennis—that Gentiles did, and so they were healthier and looked it.
    It is a no-brainer that such assimilated Jews and Mischlinge would melt into the surrounding population. (And also not want to be have shtetl Jews arriving from the East and complicating things for the alreadly successfully assimilated.
    Nevertheless from older photos I have seen of Jewish Germans of the twenties, thirties, and forties, their faces looked Jewish. This is basically still true, except that a lot of Jewish girls have nose jobs. At least, they did when I was a teenager. Not sure about now.

  177. Skeptikal says:
    @utu

    No, you are wrong.
    It is true that the Nazi Regime rescinded citizenship of all Jewish Germans living outside Germany as of 1941 (can’t recall specific date in 1941).
    Erm, how could citizenship be rescinded if it never existed?
    You are wrong.

    • Replies: @utu
  178. utu says:
    @Skeptikal

    We are not talking about German citizenship. Being German meant being German not Jewish in 19 century. Only Jews who assimilated by converting Christianity could be considered by other Germans being German in next generation.

    • Replies: @Hail
  179. @Colin Wright

    Many years ago I hypothesised that dumb Kews dropping out of the breeding pool, rather as you imagine it, would, at least till perhaps 1650ish have been responsible for much of the increasing average. For some reason it didn’t find much favour with Greg Cochran.

  180. Zumbuddi says:
    @Skeptikal

    Squirrel Hill, locale of synagogue in Pittsburgh where a shooting allegedly took place, is not that dissimilar from the Bloomingsburg settlement.

  181. anon[356] • Disclaimer says:
    @Skeptikal

    Overcrowding in those places was taxing local infrastructure to the breaking point, and in Ramapo the school board had been taken over by a Hasidic majority that was stripping local public school budgets and selling off public school buildings to yeshivas at cut-rate prices.https://www.jta.org/2015/05/22/united-states/how-to-build-an-american-shtetl-see-bloomingburg-n-y

    This is not the first time the public fund has been shipped and sent to Yeshiva run private Jewish school by the school board occupied by the Jews. NYT reported a similar thuggery and thievery not that long ago.

    • Replies: @Jacques Sheete
  182. Hail says: • Website
    @utu

    Being German meant being German not Jewish in 19 century

    The proof is in the genetics tests.

    Despite Jews being present in most German territories for a very long time, Germans usually get “0.0% Jewish” in 23andMe, from what I have seen. Not 0.3% or 0.1% or so, but 0.0%.

  183. Wally says:
    @Walt

    “Tragically Jews in the Holocaust paid for the sins of their ancestors.”

    Tragically the “6M & gas chambers” are lies. Your story is quite flawed and does not hold up to rational examination. Consequently suppression of free speech is the only option for Jews.
    recommended:
    YouTube Shuts Down the Other Side of history: All pages with “Holocaust Denial” Content have been or are already erased., By Roberto Hernández : https://codoh.com/library/document/6778/?lang=en

    According to Reuters, YouTube, a subsidiary of Google, starting at the beginning of June to start removing what they call videos that glorify “Nazi ideology” (whatever that actually means) or promote groups that claim superiority to others to justify several forms of discrimination.

    Let’s remember one thing about YouTube It is the largest video outlet hence the most important social medium for video in the world. Certainly, it has been a fabulous tool for CODOH and its audience.

    So let’s look at this a bit more-carefully, YouTube commands the most viewers, the most channels and the biggest social media community whose main purpose is to share their videos and their content. …. There is a certain obligation of trust that YouTube has betrayed. They have left thousands of users who do not fall into the category they say they wish to cast out from their website, those who promote Nazi ideology. Or the groups who are so-called supremacist.

    We feel that they made some mistake. CODOH is in no way interested in promoting the two latter items mentioned here.

    We in fact are shocked but not completely surprised at this step of YouTube— again, shocked but not entirely surprised since this has been in the air constantly. The Threat never goes away.

    We want to encourage you to look for our new up let called Bit-Chute. There you will find some (but not all) of the videos we had in our YouTube channel. It will take some real time to re-establish each and every one of the videos that we had in our previous channel.

  184. Wally says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Except that Jews still consider themselves to be Jews regardless of being secular, atheist, or active in a synagogue, etc.

    That, and the fact that they are discouraged and prevented from being fully counted, means that the number of Jews is much greater than they pretend.

    recommended:
    Most important part of being Jewish: Remembering the “Holocaust”: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12425
    ex.:

  185. WJB says:

    Lot

    In a list I saw a while ago, non-Jewish Poles also have the highest estimated AJ ancestry of any European group. So more fraternization than elsewhere too.

    What list was this? Can you post the source?

    It sounds like you’re making things up, because there are plenty of recent studies out there showing that Ashkenazi Jews overlap with Sicilians and have recent Middle Eastern ancestry. Poles overlap with other West Slavs and lack this type of Middle Eastern ancestry.

    The most common Ashkenazi paternal and maternal lines are also very rare in Poland.

    Haplogroup R1a-M582 was only sporadically observed in Europe, the Diaspora residence of Ashkenazi Jews. Notably, it was not identified among 2,149 samples (including 922 R1a-M198) of non-Jews from East Europe, where the Ashkenazi Jewish community flourished in recent centuries (Table 1).

    https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms3928

    • Replies: @j2
  186. Nehlen says:
    @Colin Wright

    Brilliant comparisons.

    Contrasting jews to any other group is a great way to point out their singular dependence on the holohoax narrative.

  187. MEFOBILLS says:
    @Robert Dolan

    This man designed machines to make jet parts….but the JQ is out of his reach.

    After 911, I asked many bright engineers and co-workers, about buildings falling in their own footprint. If they wavered in their answers, I offered to play them the game of Jenga.

    In order to shake some out of their mental shackles, I asked them to calculate the force necessary to pulverize concrete into dust. I also wanted the equations for heat loss to atmosphere, heat loss to conduction and to compare that to BTU content of a 767 Jet with full load of Kerosene at atmospheric pressure. (No forced air combustion, and hence temperatures were blue flame.)

    Even intelligent people get into mental pathways that are full of contradictions, it takes a unique subset of people to see what is right in front of their eyes.

    You have to admit, propaganda works. Some people are duped and like to remain as dupes, especially on the JQ. That blue pill is tasty.

    • Replies: @Jacques Sheete
  188. @Hypnotoad666

    Problem is, they apply this heuristic to stuff that they mindlessly absorb as received wisdom, as well as to the things they have worked out independently for themselves based on data and logic.

    Yes.

    Plus: Being smart does not necessarily imply to work out things on your own. It allows people to rely more than the dumber ones on – – – constructs and conventionalities – and illusions, even.

  189. renfro says:
    @Colin Wright

    So Jewry would keep selecting for smart Jews, and dumb Jews would disproportionately drift out of the Chosen People.

    That doesnt seem to hold up if you consider the average IQ in Israel is 94…where Jews marry only Jews.
    The average IQ in the US is 97. …even with such a mixed population.
    In the case of what are called Ashkenazim I think more likely they did more marrying out then within.

  190. Alfred says:
    @Bartolo

    I have never, ever, not once in my life, seen a Palestinian sympathise with ethnic Europeans

    Most of them live in camps and you are unlikely to have ever met any.

    I think they have much more immediate problems such as a lack of clean drinking water in Gaza. Regular bombardments and the intentional destruction of their infrastucture – electricity, water, gaz, petrol, hospitals, roads – by the Israelis.

    The fact that none of this is reported suggests that one day you will have a similar experience. It is always like that “First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out …”

    Gaza children face acute water and sanitation crisis

    https://www.unicef.org/emergencies/oPt_100684.html

    I consider your opinion facetious and arrogant to the extreme.

    • Replies: @Jacques Sheete
    , @Marcus
  191. @Parisian Guy

    nobody ever feared “If we don’t pick right now the best general, the US will be totally invaded and lost”

    Nobody ever did, but the US is now being totally invaded and may be lost. Westmoreland’s blundering contributed substantially to that, as did the decision to wage a war of attrition using US troops as an assault force, and the decision to man the force using 19 year old kids _because they had no political influence_. Straight out evil, that last, worsened by the political decision to try to destroy the troops that made it through the combat.

    As to analogies:
    DeGaul did all the things you say and France is now being totally invaded and may be lost. Thatcher led the UK’s final war, against Argentina, and the UK is now being totally invaded and may be lost. Reagan did something very similar for the US [1], and the US is now being totally invaded and may be lost. (nice phrase, by the way. Captures a lot of reality.) In that way, and only in that way, was there a similarity between the three.

    The Wikipedia article was a list of meetings and titles of documents, not that informative. Much of my information about WW II resistance came from Roberts article[2], and that information is consistent with other information I’ve read about the French resistance. Notice the deaths of accused collaborators after WW II. I’d thought DeGaul might have been a reaction to the attempted power grab by the Left. What’s your opinion on the Roberts article?

    Counterinsurgency

    1] https://mwi.usma.edu/hollow-force/

    2] Paul Craig Roberts.
    “The Lies about World War II”.
    http://www.unz.com, 2019/05/13.
    http://www.unz.com/proberts/the-lies-about-world-war-ii/

    • Replies: @Parisian Guy
  192. It is misleading to say Jews oppressed Poles in old Poland. In reality Polish-Lithuanian landowners/ aristocrats used Jews as their overseers to keep the Polish and Ukrainian peasants in line. The Jews were useful as scape goats. Plus the aristocrats could borrow money from Jewish merchants, and then threaten them with a peasant pogrom when they didn’t feel like paying the money back.

    It didn’t always work. When Polish peasants had the chance to murder Polish aristocrats they often did so in brutal fashion. This may be why to this day Poles seem to resent “elites” far more than Western Europeans do.

  193. @MEFOBILLS

    That blue pill is tasty.

    Especially if one’s been inured to coprophagy.

    Pathetic, isn’t it?

  194. WJB says:

    Lot

    Here’s another study on Jewish ancestry in Europeans. It includes Poles in its analyses.

    Another possible hypothesis to explain the increased diversity in southern Europe is that an influx of Jewish ancestry had a heterogeneous effect on genetic diversity in Europe. However, in most European populations here, virtually no Jewish ancestry was detected. On average, 1% of Jewish ancestry is found in Tuscan HapMap population and Italian Swiss, as well as Greeks and Cypriots. This may reflect the higher sharing with Near Eastern populations in the Italian peninsula and southeastern Europe (Fig. 2C) or low levels of gene flow with the early Italian Jewish communities (6). Estimates from the IBD analysis are in agreement with ADMIXTURE estimates that the amount of sharing between these populations is extremely low (SI Appendix, Table S3).

    https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2013/05/30/1306223110.abstract

    We’re living in the 21st century now, and it’s easy to check these things.

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
  195. @Hypnotoad666

    But then the czar would periodically sic his Cossacks on them for no particular reason.

    No wonder every other high school play in America is “Fiddler.” I’m so sick of being obligated to sit through that corny crap that I could just _ _ _ _.

    Never again.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  196. @Hypnotoad666

    Problem is, they apply this heuristic to stuff that they mindlessly absorb

    That’s what makes me wanna smack ’em. Most of them smugly parrot the idiot term, “CT,” as if they posses some cosmic enlightenment or something whereas if the term were not drummed into people’s skulls 25/8, they would have never thought of using it.

  197. @PeterMX

    PeterMX, I’m not sure about what you never heard before, but your comment contains information that I understand to be true.

    So, no, I don’t think abolishing serfdom was the downfall of the Russian Empire.

    I wasn’t suggesting that. I was only asking whether it was a factor in Jewish hatred toward Russia.

    What I was asking is whether the abolishment of serfdom deprived big Jews of one of their main sources of power and whether that may have set them on the road to revenge, converting the Russian Empire under the Czar into the USSR under their rule.

    It’s just speculation on my part since I do not know enough of Russian history to have an opinion. I have my hands full with American history and even then, I’m continuously (almost daily) running into facts, sometimes several in a day, that surprise me.

    As for the exaggeration of violence against Jews, I think David Reed mentions it as well, and it doesn’t surprise me a bit.

    Thanks.

    • Replies: @PeterMX
    , @NoseytheDuke
    , @Malla
  198. @anon

    … and in Ramapo the school board had been taken over by a Hasidic majority that was stripping local public school budgets and selling off public school buildings to yeshivas at cut-rate prices.

    Thanks for that.

    Someone said that whites are the new Palestinians. Not a bad analogy.

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
  199. @Alfred

    I consider your opinion facetious and arrogant to the extreme.

    Count me in.

  200. @Winnetou1889

    … and thereby are exempt from paying property taxes.

    The type benefits from various income tax scams as well. From George Swope getting a federal law passed especially for him exempting him from a Federal inheritance tax (see below), to special income tax privileges for ” holocaust survivors” and their dependents.

    [MORE]

    But since Swope had inherited this fortune from his wife there would be a federal tax of $4,500,000 on it. Levin continues to quote Tulin: “There was nothing in the internal revenue code that could help us .. . Then a thought struck me. Why couldn’t we amend the code? It would mean putting a bill through congress, but it was the only way.” …Tulin … betook himself to Washington. “There I put in the hardest four months of my life .. . I worked in complete silence. Publicity would have spoiled everything .. . I did not talk to a single Jewish member of congress. They would favor it anyway.” The bill, introduced into the house by Representatives Reed (Republican) and Keogh (Democrat) of New York was an amendment to section 2055 of the internal revenue code of 1945.

    – Dorothy Thompson, Special Law Passed for Zionist, The American Mercury, January 1959, pp. 135-136

    The United States Congress passed legislation in May 2001 exempting Holocaust survivors and their heirs from federal taxes on compensation and restitution payments received …
    The Claims Conference assisted Senator Peter Fitzgerald (R-IL) in drafting the legislation.
    http://www.claimscon.org/?url=tax_exemptions

    All Holocaust compensation and restitution payments are protected by 1994 federal legislation that excludes them from calculations relating to eligibility for federal benefits. The legislation (h.r. 1873 or public law 103-286) stated that payments made to individuals because of their status as victims of Nazi persecution are to be excluded from income and resources in determining both eligibility for and the amount of benefits or services to be provided under any Federal or federally assisted program which provides benefits or services based on need such as, but not limited to, Medicaid, Supplemental Security Income, food stamps and Federally subsidized Housing programs.

    http://www.claimscon.org/?url=payments_benefits

  201. @Anonymous

    some ultra sects won’t even ride city buses because they come in contact with the abominable infidel goyim

    To be fair, no one else wants to ride public transport, either.

    • Replies: @Jacques Sheete
  202. Skeptikal says:

    I said:
    “Many Jews were in Germany for generations and were thoroughly culturally assimilated.
    They were GERMANS.”

    They were German citizens, is what I meant.
    Legally.
    Just as Italian/Irish/Polish/Jewish/ Ukrainian Americans are Americans, that is, citizens.
    Despite their ties to their ethnic identities.
    In addition, assimilated Jews probably identified more as Germans than, say, Italian Americans. Because for many of them Judaism really was something they were trying to get away from.
    Read “The Pity of It All,” which is about the relationship of Germans and Jews.
    What I said has nothing to do with DNA.
    That is another issue entirely.
    Utu and Counterinsurgency are changing the subject to their own favorite.
    Not sure what their point is. Are they German? Are they German American? Are they descendants of Jewish Germans?

  203. @Skeptikal

    Read “The Pity of It All,” which is about the relationship of Germans and Jews.

    Sounds interesting, but I’m among those with a lot to do and a huge stack of backlogged reading, and I’d certainly welcome a capsule summary of the book.

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
  204. @Hippopotamusdrome

    To be fair, no one else wants to ride public transport, either.

    Unfortunately, plenty yearn to board the gravy train though!

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
  205. Skeptikal says:
    @WJB

    “Jewish ancestry”

    Which genes or groups of genes or DNA are considered markers of “Jewish ancestry”?
    It seems that this could be a moving target.

    Which Jews form the baseline for a gene profile that can be labeled “Jewish” and to which other DNA profiles can be compared?

  206. Skeptikal says:
    @Jacques Sheete

    Took the words right out of my mouth. Or nearly.
    I was about to say that the impulse is the same, whether in West Bank settlements or in Westchester County or the Catskills.

    Rich Jews are financing colonial enterprises and ethnic-cleansing the natives.
    The Jewish State in Palestine got started with purchasing land from Palestinians, before revealing its full political hegemonic monte.
    Same in Bloomingburg et al.

    If I were one of those who used to look out at fields and now has to look out at Hasidim townhouses, I would be freaking out.

    • Replies: @Jacques Sheete
  207. Skeptikal says:
    @Jacques Sheete

    Well, I also have a ton of reading to do too and no time to prepare a capsule summary/Cliff Notes of the whole book, which would be my first stop in a effort to understand Jewish Germans.

    Here is a review from The Guardian:
    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2003/may/10/featuresreviews.guardianreview19

    Here, from Harper’s:
    https://harpers.org/blog/2007/07/the-pity-of-it-all/

  208. Skeptikal says:
    @Jacques Sheete

    Who sez?
    I like to ride public transport.
    Who likes to drive in disgusting congestion with fools at the wheel on all sides?

  209. @Skeptikal

    Yup. Only the details change, not the big picture. The big Js will most likely be long gone after the “anti-Semite” locals wake up and initiate “pogroms” leaving the Hasidim to their own devices.

    I wonder if that scenario has ever occurred before, wink, wink!

    And how can anyone doubt that the political Zionists and many other gangsters are not only JINOs, but among the most “anti-Semitic” imaginable?

  210. Who sez?
    I like to ride public transport.
    Who likes to drive in disgusting congestion with fools at the wheel on all sides?

    I dindu nuttin…’sept responding to another comment.

    PS: I simply loathe driving for the reasons you stated, and a few others as well. And despite once owning a plane even, I cannot stand flying any longer, especially since the TSA goon squads got involved.

    • Replies: @Malla
  211. @Skeptikal

    Thanks, I’ll have a look at your links. By “capsule summary” I meant a short sentence or two. I’ll have a look at your links.

  212. @Skeptikal

    I read the Guardian link and it sounds as if the author and Douglas Reed would agree on a lot of things.

    The Guardian wrote,

    Elon has written an excellent, well-rounded and unprejudiced account

    Too bad they couldn’t resist writing a prejudiced review, but that’s to be expected, I think!

    Thanks again.

  213. bjondo says:
    @Walt

    All it takes is a few bad apples to ruin a bushel of good apples.

    Actually,

    all it takes is for 124 bad apples to ruin it for 1 possibly good apple

  214. @Skeptikal

    Jews and Italian-Americans have been thick as thieves since arriving in America. Genetically, you cannot tell them apart. Al Pacino has played Jews and James Caan has played Italians.

    From the early days of the mafia through whatever criminal activity remains on the East Coast today, Italians and Jews are always involved together.

    • Replies: @Malla
  215. Czar says:
    @Bartolo

    You’re missing something here.

    Finkielkraut supported Macron he’s just typical neo-cohen who turned from his original leftism to the pose of “why immigration is no anymore as good as when we entered here and trusted all the positions ?”

  216. @Counterinsurgency

    So, sure, it would work for humans. Probably did for the Europeans, breeding for Christian trust and against thieves and murderers. The problem is defining “best”. Islamics would find the European breeding program repulsive, as it does not produce warriors submissive to Allah, Chinese would find it repulsive as it does not breed for social order and loyalty (but rather for individual conscience), etc.

    “Best” is self defined in the process;
    What you described is a kind of a darwinian process. The difference is that this process selects another kind of code than the genetic code.
    This is selection of a moral code, not a genetic one.

    A “Best” is nothing more than what provides for more moral code replicating.

    Thus a “Best” could be, for instance:
    – a moral law forbiding interaction of the human vectors with competing moral code
    – the idea of a Holly Book
    – any kind of moral influence on the behavior of the human vector, if the long term effect is to increase moral code replication.

  217. Bert says:
    @Walt

    I was not anti-Semitic in an a priori sense. In grad school I had three Jewish girlfriends, but observing their attitudes and behavior I realized that they were different than the white women I dated as an undergraduate. They were much more cynical but also self-righteous. One had an affair with her major professor, broke up his marriage and then left him high and dry. Another was an incredible shrew. During the same period, two male Jewish students, in separate incidents, held a fist in front of my nose when they did not get what they wanted instantly. All my life I’ve dealt with lower class whites who were legitimately tough customers (some dying violently, others going to prison), but when we disagreed over property lines and trespassing none ever proceeded to threats of violence. Finally an incredible incident on a tour boat to the coral reefs off the Florida Keys. An elderly Jewish man kept bumping into me in an obviously conscious way. I would move to another spot on the boat and he would follow and start bumping me again. His daughter eventually hauled him away, apologizing as she did so. So my personal experiences, those related above and several others, incline me to believe that there is something pathological in many Jews, that their attitudes toward gentiles are malevolent to one degree or another, and that history shows that despite their intellectual contributions they have been a burden on the rest of humanity.

    • Replies: @Jack Highlands
  218. Malla says:
    @jeff stryker

    Woz there any difference in between Northern Italians and Southern Italians in this? Why most mafiosos Sicilianos and Calabrese? Not many Lombardos in the Mafia.
    Same with France, most Mafiosos from Corsica, not many from Normandy.

    • Replies: @jeff stryker
    , @Seraphim
  219. Che Guava says:
    @Che Guava

    They were also running drugs, ounce for ounce most profitably MDA and MMDA, but also cannabis.

    When Israeli DJs were running ‘rave’ parties in Tokyo, I never partook, a belgian friend at the time did, he behaved very strangely, and not happily.

    I was slightly drunk, but felt the negative energy (excuse the use of a hippy term, but my belgian friend was strongly affected by the drugs he bought from the Israeli network, and endedd crazy miserable ).

    The former (Israelis carrying suitcases full of drugs) seems to have been the same in many other countries. Confirmation is easy.

    Never bought them, because I didn’t trust at all, and because the feeling at their rave events was essentially evil, at least no fun, but really worse than that.

  220. @Counterinsurgency

    Just try your favorite translator on
    https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programme_du_Conseil_national_de_la_R%C3%A9sistance
    Trust me; The CNR program is the key for undestanding. And yes a program is generally a text. What did you expected?

    Okay, you looks at what PCR said about Irvings.
    I did a Control-F on that text, looking for “de Gaulle”. It appears then that PCR said:
    “Petain was sentenced to death by Charles de Gaulle after the war for collaboration with Germany, ”

    wikipedia tells a different story
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippe_P%C3%A9tain#Postwar_life

    As I told anglosphere cannot help himself to …. when speaking about France facts.

    I’d thought DeGaul might have been a reaction to the attempted power grab by the Left.

    Are you speaking about 1945 or 1959 DeGaulle power grab

    Which Left are you thinking about? The one paid par Washington, the one paid by Moscow, or the patriotic Left?

    Just my believing:
    “DeGaul might have been a reaction to the attempted power grab by the USA”.

    • Replies: @Counterinsurgency
  221. @Malla

    MALLA

    I assume you are an Indian woman so I can only say that whites believe the reason is due to Arab and Phoenician (Lebanese) DNA in Sicilians and Corsican people. That would be the opinion of most Northern Italians, probably.

  222. Marcus says:
    @Alfred

    Does Rashida Tlaib live in a camp?

  223. Seraphim says:
    @Malla

    Cosa Nostra, Kosher Nostra (aka Undzer Shtick).

    • Replies: @Malla
  224. @Robert Dolan

    “Why would the jews want more muslims! Muslims hate jews! That doesn’t make any sense!”

    Your friend’s quote is exactly why the net’s most informative site on Islam, jihadwatch.org, exists sponsored by Jew Bolshevik-apologist David Horowitz – as Orwellian “controlled opposition to make that very quote the bottom line conclusion Americans reach about Islamic immigration (“higra”, migrating to spread islam) relative to Jews. Obscuring the reality that Jews are facilitating it, the propaganda infers Jews oppose it because it’s dangerous to them.

    Yes, “Muslims hate Jews!” But one of the reasons is that Jews have so effectively manipulated Muslims as their Jew tool golem for the 1300 years Islam has existed, likely birthed by Jews.

    Everything Robert Spencer says negative about Islam is true, but he’s still a Jew tool working as controlled opposition to Islam and Islamic migration higra.

  225. @Bert

    Jewish intellectual contributions can mostly be characterized as first to the punch with a few important items that we know with 100% certainty would have been contributed in short order by Whites had Jews never existed. Special relativity is a good example. Several scientists were on track; Einstein’s formulation was fastest and most elegant (though there is debate even about that).

    Perhaps an argument can be made that certain finanical innovations like fractional reserve banking would not have developed without Jews, but I doubt that’s the case.

    In art, one could rationally argue their contribution has been a net negative.

    In sum, without Whites: little invention, discovery or beauty and no rationalism, realism, empiricism or science. Without Jews: a few minor delays in the pace of White-driven culture.

  226. @Jack Highlands

    Most of the big names seem to have been frauds and got their names not because they were anything special but because they got the publicity. The real deals seem to have been ignored.

    Anyway, I hope Annamaria, another UR commenter doesn’t mind my re-posting one of her comments, regarding Einstein who may have been a plagiarist, below.:

    [MORE]

    annamaria says:
    October 9, 2018 at 1:00 pm GMT • 400 Words
    @Thomm
    Just to remind you about the sources of your supposed superior intelligence:
    “There is not a history of Jews building universities in the middle ages…”
    For instance, the modern state of Israel’ intellectual achievements are due, almost totally, to the educational system in Russia. The prominent Jewish scientists of the recent past spoke either German or Hungarian. Often, the prominence was a result of tightly-knit tribal solidarity.
    Here is a Q for you, Thomm: who was the first to derive E=mc^2?
    Here is another Q: Who were the great physicists and mathematicians who have developed the modern physics but whose names were omitted in Albert’s papers? (He was eventually caught, but this has not been popularized by the media, for obvious reasons).
    An excerpt: “Max Born wrote in Physics in My Generation, “It [special relativity theory] gives you the impression of quite a new venture. But that is, of course, not true” (Born, 1956). G. Burniston Brown (1967): “It will be seen that, contrary to popular belief, Einstein played only a minor part in the derivation of the useful formulae in the restricted or special relativity theory, and Whittaker called it the relativity theory of Poincaré and Lorentz… ”
    Max Born: “The striking point is that it contains not a single reference to previous literature” (Born, 1956). He is clearly indicating that the absence of references is abnormal and that, even by early 20th century standards, this is most peculiar, even unprofessional.
    Einstein twisted and turned to avoid plagiarism charges, but these were transparent.
    James MacKaye: “Einstein’s explanation is a dimensional disguise for Lorentz’s… Thus Einstein’s theory is not a denial of, nor an alternative for, that of Lorentz. It is only a duplicate and disguise for it… Einstein continually maintains that the theory of Lorentz is right, only he disagrees with his ‘interpretation’. Is it not clear, therefore, that in this [case], as in other cases Einstein’s theory is merely a disguise for Lorentz’s, the apparent disagreement about ‘interpretation’ being a matter of words only?”
    Poincaré wrote 30 books and over 500 papers on philosophy, mathematics and physics. …
    Einstein’s act of stealing almost the entire body of literature by Lorentz and Poincaré to write his document raised the bar for plagiarism. In the information age, this kind of plagiarism could never be perpetrated indefinitely, yet the physics community has still not set the record straight.”
    http://www.techcounsellor.com/2017/04/albert-einstein-plagiarist-century/
    • Replies: @Thomm, @j2, @Allan, @Miggle
    http://www.unz.com/article/the-jewish-hand-in-the-world-wars-part-1/#comment-2563262

    A good thing about Einstein is that although he supported Zionism, he did speak out about some of the things they did.

    Einstein deplored the violent tactics of the Irgun and the LEHI [Zionist terror organizations]. Einstein was opposed to violence.

    APRIL,16, 1948
    Dear Sir,
    When a real and final catastrophe should befall us in Palestine the first responsible for it would be the British and the second responsible for it the Terrorist organizations build up from our own ranks.
    I am not willing to be associated with those misled and criminal people.
    Sincerely yours,
    Albert Einstein.

    https://ariseyeprisoners.tumblr.com/post/9653286796/alqudseya-april16-1948-dear-sir-when-a

    In this letter, Einstein and about 30 other prominent New York Jewish people describe Zionism as both Fascist and terrorist.
    “Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our times is the emergence in the newly created state of Israel of the “Freedom Party” (Tnuat Haherut), a political party closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties. It was formed out of the membership and following of the former Irgun Zvai Leumi, a terrorist, right-wing, chauvinist organization in Palestine.

    https://ariseyeprisoners.tumblr.com/post/9653286796/alqudseya-april16-1948-dear-sir-when-a

    I hope the links still work and apologize if they do not.

    • Replies: @Anonymouser
  227. Anonymous[191] • Disclaimer says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    ‘Lindemann notes:

    Although his History of the Jews is still lauded by twentieth-century Jewish historians as one of the great nineteenth-century histories of the Jews, there is little question that the sense of Jewish superiority expressed in it, especially in the eleventh volume, which had first appeared in 1868, was at times narrow and excessive. Indeed compared with it, Treitschke’s history of the Germans may be described as generous in spirit, especially in its treatment of the relationships of Jews and non-Jews, their relative merits and defects.[xxi]

    Lindemann points outs that Graetz harbored a “deep contempt for the ancient Greeks and a special derision for Christians in the Middle Ages.” Presaging Freud and the Frankfurt School, Graetz considered contemporary European civilization to be “morally and physically sick.” Lindemann observes that “Graetz had written much that was stunningly offensive to German sensibilities of the time” and that it was hardly surprising that Treitschke responded with “such fury.” Celebrating deceit and guile as highly effective forms of ethnic warfare, Graetz had written that the Jewish writers Boerne and Heine had “renounced Judaism, but only like combatants who, putting on the uniform of the enemy, can all the more easily strike and annihilate him.” Moreover, in his private correspondence, Graetz “expressed his destructive contempt for German values and Christianity more forthrightly.” In a letter to Moses Hess, written in 1868, for instance, he wrote that “we must above all work to shatter Christianity.”

    On becoming aware of such views, Treitschke angrily observed that “the man shakes with glee every time he can say something downright nasty against the Germans.”[xxii] It was reading Graetz and noting how his brand of history was so highly esteemed by Jews that prompted Treitschke to echo the reactions of many Germans to having their people, culture and religion derided by members of an alien race living in their midst, noting that:

    What deadly hatred of the purest and most powerful exponents of German character, from Luther to Goethe and Fichte! And what hollow, offensive self-glorification! Here it is proved with continuous satirical invective that the nation of Kant was really educated to humanity by Jews only, that the language of Lessing and Goethe became sensitive to beauty, spirit and wit only through [the Jews] Boerne and Heine! … And this stubborn contempt for the German goyim is not at all the attitude of a single fanatic’

    https://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2016/01/21/a-review-of-why-the-germans-why-the-jews-part-3/

    Huh indeed.

    • Agree: utu
  228. Anonymous[191] • Disclaimer says:
    @Skeptikal

    Ignorant lol.

    I have forgotten more about Jews and thier interactions with Europeans than you have ever known.

    Simply mimicking German behaviour does not make one German any more than mimicking French behaviour make ones French.

    Care to address any of my three points?

    • Replies: @utu
  229. Anonymous[191] • Disclaimer says:
    @PeterMX

    The abolition of serfdom was the reason for Jewish emigration to the USA. The so called pogroms didnt start untill years later and the Jews losing thier monopolies on money-lending and alcohol sales are what caused them to start leaving.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  230. Anonymous[191] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack Highlands

    ‘like fractional reserve banking would not have developed without Jews’

    Italian lombards invented it. Like many other things Jews weaponised it.

  231. @Jacques Sheete

    ‘In the information age, this kind of plagiarism could never be perpetrated indefinitely, yet the physics community has still not set the record straight’

    Look up the Einstien cult. Try to set the record straight and you will be set upon by Jews.

  232. @Walt

    Most people in any class or religion are pretty decent. It is those 10 to 20 percent who claw their way to the top walking over the faces of everyone in their way who are the problem and who are responsible for our wars and atrocities.

    Myself? Here is my confession. I generally like Jews a lot but am critical of Zionist means and ends. I tend to despise the ignorance of fellow Christians who call themselves Christian Zionists who are nothing but dupes fueling the coming war to snuff out Islamic nations like Iran. As for the the conversion of Jews to Christianity I am totally heretical and a total revolutionary. My totally inept Catholic Church hierarchy has by pressures from the Zio lobby stopped all praying for the conversion of Jews to Christianity, as if they in their Talmudic exclusiveness and misplaced chosenness do not need Christ for their salvation. This is nonsense as is the Vatican and the Pope on this issue. The origins of Christianity are totally Jewish, at least religiously so although the blood lines of many Jews today are not so semitic. However, religiously and ethnically the founders of Christianity were all Jewish as was Christ. St. Paul was a giant and remains so.

    What happened in that new beginning was a nuclear-like explosion which swept right through the Roman empire and beyond. Why? Because the Jews were chosen for that purpose and as the chosen “they got it” and in many things, including many wrong endeavours, they still get it, and they can do it again.

    Even in their alienated state they still “get it” and are able to get things going. Our prayers have to be for their conversion to Christianity because with them and their abilities I believe the world will be transformed. If even a quarter of the Jews in Israel were converted the world would be a far better place. Without Christ they are the victims of their own self aggrandisement and inner restlessness which is a separation from God. With them in charge of things in the 20th century that restlessness and turmoil was manifest and continues to the present. If you are Christian then disobey your politically-correct leaders and pray for the conversion of Jews in particular, so that they can be a leading part of the body of Christ and with their gifts help make the world a much better place.

  233. @Marcus

    Whites means whites. As others. It is not a racist point of view but the reality. I defend my white Culture against the melting pot made in US, tragically failed ti multitribalism. The right to live in EU is the right to respect the white Culture. I can’t throw away Mozart, Hegel, Plato….because they were White. Whites means Whites

    • Replies: @Marcus
  234. Seraphim says:
    @Anonymous

    One should notice that many Jews emigrated to USA, returned to Russia as ‘American citizens’ and engaging in various illegal commercial transactions along with those from the neighboring Germany and Austria, in plus ‘evincing restless and disloyal inclinations’. Americans immediately came to the rescue of their ‘citizens’ protesting ‘discrimination based on religion or race’. Not to mention that a great number of them were, according to Russian legislation which did not permit emigration and naturalization in another country without special permission (a rule applicable in any country even today), draft-dodgers and fugitives. By the same token the Russian Government was refusing entry visas to elements considered undesirable, dangerous and susceptible to become a charge and parasitic elements (as all immigration legislations of every country, USA in the first place, explicitly state). But America was riding the high horse of ‘human rights’ (pretending to represent all the ‘civilised world’) since then, stressing the ‘anti-Americanism’ (and their ‘values’) of the Russians. There is no accusation brought against Russia today that was not designed in America by the end of the 19th century. Jacob Schiff was the champion of Jewish ‘rights’ in Russia and proponent of economic sanctions to punish Russia (which led to the enthusiastic abrogation of the Russian-American Treaty of 1832) long before he lent his money to Trotsky to bring definitively Russia to its knees.

  235. Paul says:

    My Sunday School teacher, when I was a kid, was in the Dutch Resistance during World War II. He still had his fake papers from his time in the Resistance and helped hide Jews during the war. He came to the U.S. and made a lot of money in the construction business. His attitude toward Jews was ambivalent, though, as he saw them as having a propensity toward dishonesty. That attitude irritated my liberal mother.

  236. utu says:
    @Anonymous

    He is a victim of one book he read.

  237. Marcus says:
    @Leo Grellede

    None of those people would have thought of themselves as white. Using white in the European context is a tool of deracination. The stronger claim is to their national identities that have existed for over a millennium

    • Replies: @Leo Grellede
  238. Malla says:
    @Seraphim

    hehehe. This explains the love for the Mafia by Hollywood. Because Hollywood is a kind of mafia too. Hitler who built up his country, gave jobs to 6 million unemployed is ‘Ultimate Evul’ while mafiasos who break the law and are greedy for money are heroes. Classic inversion of Logos by Hollywood.

  239. Malla says:
    @Jacques Sheete

    I was hearing this Russian Professor saying that the Romanovs blocked a Rothshild plan for some form of ‘League of Nations/ United Nations’ some centuries back, or some other sinister plan I do not exactly remember. Indeed the only power in Europe who blocked this move were the Romanovs. From that time on the Rothschilds considered the Romanovs s enemy number one. And soon we see a series of assassination attempts on many Romanov Emperors, all of them carried out by the Rothschild minions, the Jews in Russia/Easter Europe.
    And soon later we hear all the kvetching about da evul anti Semitic Tzar while in reality many Jews were doing quite well in Russia. Jews monopolised many industries in Tsarist Russia. People do not know that before the Third Reich, the Romanovs were considered the Hitlers of their times and we see many references to the magic Gematria number of 6 million before 1933 in many newspapers.

  240. Malla says:
    @Jacques Sheete

    Maybe YTs should learn this dindu mantra from the dindu Kings and Queens, the blacks.

    When the Chosenites kvetch and screech about ‘muh Shoah’ , gentile Whites should respond back with, “We dindu nuffin” because in this case at least, YTs really dindu nuffin.

  241. @Anonymouser

    Doesn’t assimilate mean that you become the other? If Jews assimilated, there would be no Jews.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  242. Vojkan says:
    @Iris

    Which proves that if raised outside the talmudic mental ghetto, Jews can be good people.

  243. WhiteWolf says:
    @Robjil

    Empathy morons is what our rulers are.

    Rothschilds and their ilk are empathy morons. They created a moronic culture lacking empathy. All of humanity and the earth is being destroyed because of their being empathy morons.

    I’ll play the devil’s advocate here and suggest that the Rothschilds and others sell the moronic culture more than create it. Too many willing buyers of this moronic culture is what finally creates it. How many people even have the agency to turn off their television and stop consuming all the propaganda? How many part with their hard earned cash to watch the latest propaganda out of Hollywood?

    • Replies: @Robjil
  244. Vojkan says:
    @Robjil

    Actually, the right term is psychopaths. Seek the definition of psychopathy and you’ll see that it matches trait for trait.

    • Agree: Robjil
    • Replies: @Robjil
  245. Robjil says:
    @Vojkan

    I know. I mentioned morons because the commenter was touting the Rothschilds as having such a high IQ and that were not morons. Well, the Rothschilds have an extremely low empathy IQ, thus they are clearly empathy morons. It quite obvious this so. Their extremely low empathy IQ had been the greatest tragedy for the entire world as long they have been at the top of the heap.

  246. Robjil says:
    @WhiteWolf

    Bread and circus is what that is.

    Our ruling 500 BC Zion crazies are going crazy to stamp out anything that is outside their control.

    People were speaking up about our ruling crazies. This why the massive outrage by our rulers in past few years. Propaganda from 500 BC Zion Holy-wood is all that is allowed for the masses to “see”. Thus, massive clamp downs on people who speak and want to live in the present and not in some fantasy 500 BC Zion land.

    I can’t blame people for watching this 500 BC Zion prop. It is all that is “allowed” in our fantasy 500 BC Zion world.

  247. @Parisian Guy

    Which Left are you thinking about? The one paid par Washington, the one paid by Moscow, or the patriotic Left?

    More the one paid by Moscow. Stalin didn’t die until the 1950s, and I would expect his directions to the French Resistance were about the same ones us had used in the 1930s: play a long game, oppose moderate socialists first, the fascists to the World War since they’ll lose whatever we do. Everything I’ve read about the period suggests that this was their strategy, although so far nobody has put it that way.

    “DeGaulle might have been a reaction to the attempted power grab by the USA”.

    Not quite sure why you put “attempted” in there. Occupying a country militarily is a power grab, no less. The Communists (Moscow variety) were, again, playing the long game, waiting for the US to leave, but my impression is that they’d have taken power short term if they could have done so risk free. OTH, Stalin might have said “no” to that.

    Are you speaking about 1945 or 1959 DeGaul power grab?

    1945. From DeGaulle’s 1946 resignation, it would appear that he found out he was the Resistance leader in name only. DeGaulle’s return in 1959 was widely regarded in the US as an attempted return to Great Power status by France. After the Suez Canal fiasco (fiasco for all concerned, including the US) 1959. DeGaulle certainly gave it a good try, though.

    The CNR program is the key for undestanding.

    Here we run into a problem. I translated the web page you indicated. The whole thing lists many programs (including a “call for immedite action” that was apparently debated for several monthss ), than says that the CNR program wasn’t influential until after WW II. The program appears to be a way of giving French politicians control of industry, which set up the basics for the descendants of Frenchman at the CNR’s time to be forced out of Paris at the expense and initiative of their own government. This couldn’t be what France is all about! What is the point that I’m missing?

    Counterinsurgency

    • Replies: @Parisian Guy
  248. The whole thing lists many programs (including a “call for immedite action” that was apparently debated for several monthss ), than says that the CNR program wasn’t influential until after WW II. The program appears to be a way of giving French politicians control of industry, which set up the basics for the descendants of Frenchman at the CNR’s time to be forced out of Paris at the expense and initiative of their own government. This couldn’t be what France is all about! What is the point that I’m missing?
    Can’t undersstand your answer;
    1- the program was not “influential”; It was strictly applied as soon as possible, that is during the first year after the end of WW2
    2-as an American you see “french politicians controling the industry”; No. It is the French State which is controlling the industry. I guess that Americans don’t understand what the State is. It is not the property of a politician. It is something which outlives the politician, going for the common good (of course I know that real-life may be different). That’s the same thing that the State ruling, let’s say, the NOAA. Will you say that “the US politicians got control of the NOAA”?. In order to use the industry as a tool for the common good, there was an administration managed by civil servants. They were civil servant for their whole lifetime. No corporate position, no political position at any time of their life. They defined the long term plan for the French industry. Many politicians complained that the civil servant were more powerful.

    Can’t see which relationship you see between these things and the Frenchmen being pushed outside of Paris.
    First Paris itself is mainly white people, because of real estate prices; Second , if you refers to immigration, this happened quite later, not before the eighties. They colonized some suburbs of paris, let’s say North and North-East. In any case I can’t see which relationship you’re thinking about. We just unknowingly elected and reelected immigrationist governments.

    About the Moscow’s Left. The step by step strategy you described is more of the Trotskyist brand which wanted to export revolution globaly.
    What DeGaulle had to manage in 1945 was the the Stalin stipendied. DeGaulle was practicing realpolitik (like Putin do now). He allied with these stalinists in order tu push US out. That is why the CNR program is quite communist by some points. Think about it: all big banks became property of the French State. They become a tool of the State ruling economy.

    I have a feeling these things are too alien for you, thus the misunderstanding.
    I would like you to not take it personnaly, but I have to tell you an unpleasant idea; well most Americans are like you, so believe me it will not be personnal. Here it is: since the time of the robber barrons and the fed, Americans have been brainwashed about the big bad danger of the big bad State and the big bad Marxism. In real life, socialism and State can be good as long as the rulers are doing for the common good; Just look at what Russia and China do. They are going up, US is going down. Why nobody told you these truth? The reason is that all the billionaries want you to believe that it’s your interest to not hear about the State or Marx. Actually, it’s only their own interest.

    The reason Degaulle rapidly lost power in 1946 is not that he was not the actual Resistance chief. The reason is obviously that the war had ended. You now had to win election to get power. Therefore all the usual rulers of politics took back their power. Think to political parties, money power and media power. They were in a hurry to push out DeGaulle. Notice that Churchill got the same treatment.
    That’why DeGaulle had to wait more than 10 years before coming back. He had been very tricky, and played deception, taking advantage of special circumstances related to Algeria. There was reasons for a possible civil war and an attempted “coup d’état” by some militaries. Thus more people wanted DeGaulle to come back as an apeasment.

    • Agree: utu
  249. @Counterinsurgency

    I would add something about the idea of the State.

    You have to remember it was not the creation of the will of human being , at the beginning. Of course I’m speaking about the idea of the State. At first there was a Kingdom (which was the God will). There were aristocrats who were by birth bound to serve the State. This system lasted for more than a millenary. It left a deep print in the mind of French about the state. Whatever was the discourse of the 1789 revolutionnaries, the French Republics (we got five ) have always been the heirs of the French Kingdom. You’ll find a disproportionate number of the descendants of aristocrats being high level civil servants, like their ancestors were, centuries ago. Whatever the level, most of the time the civil servants have for life tenure, but they get quite lower salary than in private sector of economy for the same academic degree. On the other side, they sometimes are proud to serve the common good.

    As I said, De Gaulle was from old aristocracy, and he preferred monarchy. He became a military, because his ancestors were. He actually was quite proud to serve France (as Pétain was during Vichy) and never got real money from his tenures. He spoke about France like it was a Holy Kingdom, a thing which has value by itself, which individuals should serve. It was not “the land of the Free” as a territory for individuals to get whatever satisfaction or happiness.

    I believe that one the root cause of the so fast decaying of the America experiment (fast because there is only a little more than one hundred years between “developping country” and “decadent country”) is a flawed principle of its foundation. You all believe that there is “a land of the Frees”; In my opinion, this cannot exist more than “a free lunch” can exist. The idea of the society, for Americans, is like the idea of Adam Smith for economy: Just let everybody pursue its own happiness, then everything will run fine. I believe it cannot work this way. There must be people who get their hapiness from serving the common good and getting only pride and lean money in return. Let’s say for instance academic teachers or firefighters; From the salary I have heard about in US, I think that most French would find the numbers absolutely outrageous. In France, you got these civil jobs if you want the glory or the social esteem. You should not ask for big money.
    Of course real France is more about money than in my picture. The reason is that France has changed and is becoming like America, and we are going toward decay at the same time…

    • Replies: @Counterinsurgency
  250. @Vojkan

    Good question. I must research. Are you sure Séguin is Jewish?

    • Replies: @Vojkan
  251. @Laurent Guyénot

    Merci pour ce commentaire ! Étrange, mon Roussel n’indique pas cela, mais seulement : « …l’antisémitisme, seule fois dans sa vie, semble bien le gagner. À juste titre, on s’est étonné que le seul mot illisible des Lettres, notes et carnets se trouve dans cette phrase for explicite… » (2002, p. 33)

  252. Vojkan says:
    @Guillaume Durocher

    His mother wasn’t Jewish but there are allegations that she had an affair with her employer, a philandering womens’ underwear Jewish shopkeeper who made the most of the absence of mobilised husbands. Never really confirmed, never really denied. Séguin himself was rather ambiguous about it. He definitely didn’t have a Jewish upbringing anyway.

  253. @Parisian Guy

    Parisian Guy

    Good points, and I hadn’t known them before. Thanks!

    I can partly understand what you’re saying because my family was sort of upper middle class business, and that once corresponded to aristocracy. Not Anglo Saxon, more like Welsh/French/English mix. As of 1960, acting in an aristocratic way in the US was suicidal, as the business press at the time noted in print. Literally — everybody in my family in my generation became a casualty, me least of all (so I can still write this) and that was because I didn’t much care whether I lived or died (still don’t), and so avoided most traps quite unconsciously by following a rule of thumb to keep out of obvious kill zones no matter how good everybody said they were, no matter how risky leaving it was, although sometimes I just stayed in one that turned out to be harmless to me. Essentially, I didn’t want the SOB’s to know they’d got me. They seem to have gotten almost everybody else.

    I was, however, close enough to the Old School Anglo Saxons to see what they were doing and why they were doing it.

    The old Protestants believed in individual salvation. That didn’t stop the New Englanders / Pilgrims from organizing themselves very thoroughly, but it did mean that they thought of society as something that existed _as a backdrop_ to individual salvation. The objective of a society is to support stewardship of the Earth while _not_ interfering with the individual search for salvation. The prosperous society is a kind of byproduct of the stewardship requirement, and the social harmony a kind of byproduct of the “do unto others” requirement. This was true even for the Scotch-Irish settlers, different from the Pilgrims though they were, and of the Quakers, and of the Anglicans (also Protestant, sort of).

    Given the need to respect individual salvation, sovereignty of the people was the only possible basis for government of any kind. Other governments would (and did) inspire revolt. It was, in essence, the inability of the slaves to seek their own individual salvation through their own vocation etc. that motivated the Abolitionists (although what we today would call “virtue signaling” also motivated them). It still motivates New Englanders when they think about those unable to live in industrial society. Clearly, such people don’t have the ability to seek salvation that other people have, and clearly (to New Englanders) giving them that ability is more important than, say, industrial society. Sinners who prevent salvation are doomed to Hell anyway, they’re Deplorables, so why not enslave them and see how they like it?

    You can see the limits to the Protestant government easily enough from the above, and it reached those limits during the US Civil War and Reconstruction in ways I needn’t describe. I will point out, however, that the US Civil War ended attempts at stopping immigration, and that the Gilded Age put a stake through the American form of government. The new populations didn’t want to seek salvation — they depended on specialists in their several Churches to seek it for them and to specify penance for evil deeds. That make American laws inapplicable, and the Progressive movement was essentially an attempt to make American laws fit the new American population by what amounted to esoteric reading (Like Roe vs. Wade. Take old words, give them a new definition, destroy those who object, and, Bingo, you have a new law. It’s a standard method in theological disputes during reformations.)
    Eventually, the Progressives and their spiritual descendants, the Democrats, ended Anglo Saxon participation in American politics (c.a. AD 1970, after a fling at Empire building and after two world wars). At that point, the American government (financed by resources extracted from its empire) started its present “I don’t mind and you don’t matter” approach to governing which has produced the current strange paradox of an all powerful government that is captive to foreigners and groups that demonstrably can’t live in an industrial society and want the society to end. Same as in Europe, as far as I can see, except it’s groups like the old Aristocracy that have been forced out in Europe.
    Old Soviet Era joke punchline: “Ah, Boris. The USSR has to be the richest country in the world. Just think, 70 years since the Revolution and theyre’s still something left to steal!”

    And, related to another conversation I’m having now — the Jewish establishment was not responsible for the Progressives, who were old school Anglo Saxons. The Jewish establishment just took Progressive vocabulary over (along with the Protestant ideas of racial equality before God) and ran with it.

    Counterinsurgency

  254. refl says:
    @Anonymouser

    There certainly was a huge difference between the settled jewish population in Germany who belonged to the bourgeoise upperclass in Berlin for example, and the eastern European escapees from tzarist Russia.
    And on the other side, you should not underestimate the cultural division within imperial Germany. The fact, that the general condemnation of the Prussian-German empire works so well with Germans post-WWII has much to do with the dislike of Prussia, above all in the catholic parts – mostly Bavaria today.
    Myself, for example, I still can hardly swallow my anger, when Americans confuse Lederhosen with German culture. When I go on holiday, I will not stop voluntarily before having crossed the Austrian border.

    • Replies: @Anonymouser
  255. Anonymous[246] • Disclaimer says:
    @OilcanFloyd

    Believe it or not that was actually the implicit bargain Europeans gave Jews when they were emancipated. Europeans were outraged when Jews chose not to assimilate. Of course Jews could always have chosen to live in thier own enclaves and have nothing to do with the politics and culture of thier host societies like the Chinese did. As ever Jews wanted it both ways.

    • Replies: @Carroll Price
  256. @refl

    ‘Myself, for example, I still can hardly swallow my anger, when Americans confuse Lederhosen with German culture. When I go on holiday, I will not stop voluntarily before having crossed the Austrian border.’

    Interesting. Tell me more.

    • Replies: @refl
  257. utu says:

    A Quo Primum
    His Holiness Pope Benedict XIV
    Encyclical on Judaism in Poland
    June 14, 1751

    To the Primate, Archbishops and Bishops, of the Kingdom of Poland.
    http://www.newadvent.org/library/docs_be14aq.htm

    • Replies: @Anon
  258. @Anon 2

    This means that soon the U.S. will be ruled by an alien
    elite that has little in common with the vast majority of heritage Americans.

    They (we) already are ruled by an alien elite, and have been since the early 1960s, at the latest. The 1960s Jewish financed, Jewish led Cultural (Hippie) Revolution, followed by the Jewish financed civil rights revolution totally transformed American society from what it was to what we have today, which frankly defies any description I’m qualified to give.

  259. j2 says:
    @WJB

    To an earlier comment
    “In a list I saw a while ago, non-Jewish Poles also have the highest estimated AJ ancestry of any European group. So more fraternization than elsewhere too.

    You answered:
    “What list was this? Can you post the source?
    It sounds like you’re making things up, because there are plenty of recent studies out there showing that Ashkenazi Jews overlap with Sicilians and have recent Middle Eastern ancestry. Poles overlap with other West Slavs and lack this type of Middle Eastern ancestry.
    The most common Ashkenazi paternal and maternal lines are also very rare in Poland.”

    You are correct. While there is some East European admixture in Ashkenazi Jews, ethnic Poles are a very homogeneous group and almost totally lack any admixture with Ashkenazi Jews. I could not find any aDNA studies, but Y-DNA and mtDNA show this very clearly:
    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41431-019-0381-x
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3598329/

    Very little admixture with Ashkenazi Jews, possibly some traces in subclades of K and L mtDNA haplogroups, but they also appear in Europe and are not certain indicators of Ashkenazi Jewish genes. Known conversions of Frankists were so small amounts that they leave little trace. No large number of crypto-Jews in Poland. Very few intermarriages.

  260. @Anonymous

    As true parasites, Jews require a host on which to live and thrive. That’s why such a relatively few Jews worldwide choose to live in Israel. With the ones who do faring rather well on income earned or, in many cases, embezzled from Gentiles in host countries in which they so-journed. Or on foreign aid payments provided courtesy of US taxpayers, plus reparation funds being extracted from German citizens for heinous crimes said to have been committed against Jews by their deceased parents and grandparents.

    • Replies: @Bert
  261. refl says:
    @Anonymouser

    Certainly, it is polemical how I have formulated this. But the modern German culture of the Kaiserreich was based on Prussia and the protestant north. Bavaria is mostly catholic and used to be rural and quite poor, certainly with the exeption of Munich and some of its merchant cities. Hitlers early successes were partly due to his positive attitude towards German unity at a time, when many politicians in the federal states thought about defecting the common state. For example, later chancellor Konrad Adenauer back then as mair of Cologne was chosen by the French as leader of a separatist Rhineland (which post 1945 gained a life of its own as the West German state).
    Bavaria got rich not least because of the fact, that in the immediate post war month, the Americans withdrew the imdusties of former Middle Germany in the West Saxon region to their occupation zone in the South West. Prussia, which was the German heardland and once had formed 2/3 of the Reich, was abolished and its name forsaken. You will know, that General Steuben was a Prussian. It were Prussian troops that defectet Napoleon and lateron defeated imperial France.
    Prussia had been the backbone of the Reich of 1871.

  262. TGD says:

    How did Polish (Ashkenazic) Jews like Alain Finkielkraut acquire their odd surnames? You can blame the French, namely Napoleon. When Napoleon conquered a country he would order the Jews to take a last name. Jews traditionally were identified by a patronymic (like “son of”) or a matronymic or a geographic place name (like “Simon of York”).

    In a typically sly way, Jews got even with Napoleon by adopting idiotic surnames like Finkielkraut, which means “shiny cabbage” or Goldwater, which means “urine”. I propose that in deference to his French hosts, Alain Finkielkraut adopt a Frenchified version of his surname: “Choupét,” pronounced shoo pay. Alain Choupét- sounds great.

    • Replies: @szopen
    , @Seraphim
  263. szopen says:
    @TGD

    French or Prussian. Usually Jews had no say at their name. Sometimes they were just given name by local official.

  264. Seraphim says:
    @TGD

    “The process of assigning permanent surnames to Jewish families (most of which are still used to this day) began in Austria. On 23 July 1787, five years after the Edict of Tolerance, the Holy Roman Emperor Joseph II issued a decree called ‘Das Patent über die Judennamen’ which compelled the Jews to adopt German surnames.Prussia did so soon after, beginning with Silesia: the city of Breslau in 1790, the Breslau administrative region in 1791, the Liegnitz region in 1794. In 1812, when Napoleon had occupied much of Prussia, surname adoption was mandated for the unoccupied parts; and Jews in the rest of Prussia adopted surnames in 1845.
    Napoleon also, in a decree of July 20, 1808, insisted upon the Jews adopting fixed names. His decree covered all lands west of the Rhine; and many other parts of Germany required surname-adoption within a few years. The city of Hamburg was the last German state to complete the process, in 1849.
    At the end of the 18th century after the Partition of Poland and later after the Congress of Vienna the Russian Empire acquired a large number of Jews who did not use surnames. They, too, were required to adopt surnames during the 19th century”.

    [Alain] Finkielkraut is “the son of a Polish Jewish manufacturer of fine leather goods who survived the Auschwitz concentration camp, where he was taken by German Nazis”. Hence his Germanic sounding name. Most ‘French’ Jews with Germanic names were ‘alien’ Jews from Poland/Ukraine/Romania (Leibovici, Moscovici, Klarsfeld) not naturalized or in the process of obtaining French citizenship at the outbreak of the war (these ones have been deported).
    “Native” French Jews have Jewish names like Levy, Cohen, Isaac, Joseph, Jacob, Samson, Aron, Mandel, or Spanish/Portuguese like Pereyre, Pissaro, Mendes etc. Jews immigrated to France from Maghreb have Arabic sounding names like Attali, Halimi, Sarfati, Lelouch.

    • Replies: @Iris
  265. Seraphim says:
    @Jacques Sheete

    Especially when the Fiddle is played by the hideous Barbara.

  266. Bert says:
    @Jack Highlands

    I agree. Evolutionary biology has of course provided mankind with the most revolutionary self-knowledge possible, yet there has been no significant Jewish contribution to this multi-century intellectual endeavor. The work has been spearheaded by men of British and German descent.

  267. Bert says:
    @Carroll Price

    Israeli nuclear weapons protect Jews everywhere from expulsion. The establishment of that state shortly after the demonstration of the feasibility of nuclear weapons is probably not coincidental.

  268. Iris says:
    @Seraphim

    Napoleon also, in a decree of July 20, 1808, insisted upon the Jews adopting fixed names

    Poor, poor Jews, always ever the victims.

    Native French had been obliged to use patronymic surnames ever since the 15th century. By then already, only the King of France had the power to authorise a change of name, with such earliest royal decree on record dating back 1422. By 1539, King Francois 1er created the mandatory civil register, kept at the time by the Catholic churches.

    Imposing census, conscription and taxation on the Jews, similar to their Christian French countrymen, is of course an odious sign of persecution. Napoleon the Nazi, who would have thought?

  269. @falcemartello

    Why did you have to insert the phrase, “vile fascistic —“?

    “Fascism” is as over-used and ignorantly vilified as “Nazi.”

    Confucius say, First, reform the language.

    The blueprint of [the Confucian] process was described in “The Great Learning,” a section of the Classic of Rituals:

    Only when things are investigated is knowledge extended;
    only when knowledge is extended are thoughts sincere;
    only when thoughts are sincere are minds rectified;
    only when minds are rectified are the characters of persons cultivated;
    only when character is cultivated are our families regulated;
    only when families are regulated are states well governed;
    only when states are well governed is there peace in the world.(3) https://asiasociety.org/education/confucianism

    (Intriguing close relationship to core principles of Zoroaster and almost entirely opposite to zionism & zionized USA. https://www.trunews.com/stream/aipac-world-order-how-the-zionist-lobby-has-driven-u-s-leadership )

  270. Anon 2 says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Re: Jews only assimilated within the German cultural sphere

    I think to a large extent it’s a question of percentages. After the expulsions only tiny numbers of Jews remained in the German states of the Holy Roman Empire. Even in Germany in the 1930s the Jews constituted only 0.8% of the population compared to 10% in Poland. When your percentage is that high you create a country within a country and there is no reason to assimilate. For example, a Latino living in Miami or Los Angeles can these days spend his entire life speaking Spanish, he has no need to learn English. Similarly blacks in the U.S., at 13%, will never assimilate. They have their own culture, their own way of speaking, and whites increasingly have to assimilate to THEM.

    Jews were not allowed to live in Russia proper (e.g., Moscow or SPB) until 1917 – one of the reasons for the Bolshevik Revolution was to liberate the Jews from the Pale of Settlement which was largely contiguous with the former Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. So the Russians, unlike the Polish or the Ukrainians, have had very little historical experience with the Jews, except possibly with the Khazars in the Middle Ages. In the 1930s the percentage of Jews within the Soviet Union was tiny – less than 1%.

    Why Orthodox and ultra-Orthodox Jews loved Poland so much remains a mystery. One reason I think is that Poland, unlike Russia or Germany, has always had a permissive, decentralized culture in which the Jews could thrive. While the western Europeans were butchering each other with glee during the Religious Wars (1517-1648), Poland with its enormous territory was a haven of peace. To fight over minor theological differences was to fight over nothing, was the attitude. Moreover, Slavonic cultures, unlike Germany, tend to be matriarchal, or at least more balanced, and therefore more open to spirituality, and hence more skeptical of science and technology. Poland is still one of the most Romantic countries in Europe, hence somewhat gynocentric (e.g., veneration of Virgin Mary), and therefore post-feminist – there have been many women in high positions, incl. prime ministers. I get the sense that many religious (but not secular) Jews would love to go back to Poland, western Ukraine, and Belarus (i.e., former territory of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth), and live among people who are naturally spiritual compared to the decadent materialistic West.

    • Replies: @refl
  271. Anon 2 says:

    Re: Catholicism and the Jews

    The key fact that many people are not aware of is that, unlike the Protestants, Catholics find the Jews rather unimpressive:

    1. Catholics typically don’t pay much attention to the Old Testament which, going by the number of pages, constitutes about 70-75% of the Bible, depending on which version you use. The OT is used mainly as a source of prophecies about Jesus Christ. So while the Protestants spend years reading stories about the Jews, the Catholics focus primarily on the Gospels and maybe the Acts. Catholics also hear or read a lot of stories from the lives of the saints, similarly as the Buddhists read stories about the lives of the great masters. Catholicism and Buddhism bear many similarities. That’s why when the Dalai Lama used to visit Europe, he typically stayed at Benedictine monasteries, and said he felt totally at home.

    2. In Catholicism the highest ideal is holiness, so people tend to be evaluated based on how close they get to this goal (rather impossible as Kierkegaard observed). A high IQ, a Nobel Prize, a billion dollar wealth are totally unimpressive from this point of view. And, no offense, but Jews generally don’t strike people as paragons of virtue, heroic or otherwise.

    3. The fact that the Jews failed to create their own country in the early Middle Ages when Europe was all open for the taking speaks to a massive level of incompetence. The Lechites and the Magyars, with smaller populations than the number of Jews in the late Roman Empire, managed to create countries 1100 years ago which still exist and are doing just fine, namely Poland and Hungary.

  272. @Anon 2

    ANON

    1) Catholics are generally cunning and shrewd races like Irish or Italians or Cubans whose societies involved a great deal bureaucracy (Clergy) as oppose to those of Northern Europe. These races arrived to the industrializing North. It is the Evangelical Protestants in the interior who seem to have fared the worst in the twentieth century. And of course African-Americans are not Catholic.

    2) This could be true but non-Hispanic Catholics in America earn more than Evangelical Protestants on average.

    3) Jews were merchants with no ability to farm and no particular aptitude for warfare whose principle skill was business. Jews were never going to move into Prussia and annex land by force. They could, on the other hand, accrue immense power in urban centers of existing countries. But form their own? When discussing Jews the word “sons of the soil” always comes up. Jews were never native to anywhere but Italy in terms of ancestry, and they were not going to take over that country.

  273. Anon[115] • Disclaimer says:
    @utu

    E Michael Jones rightly points out that Christian aristocrats actually invited jewish usurers (44% interest!) into their lands because they would personally get better terms. This
    arrangement emboldened the jewish in their other business dealings with the less well-off. Poor oversight added to the problem. The Church advised, but did not have (generally speaking) executive function.

    The Christian powerful renegued on their duty to take care of their humbler brothers.. greed blinded them. The reasonable control of the appetites, of the passions (food, sex, honors, wealth, abuse of power) is part of the Catholic way of life. It is done simply, by small steps (fast days, charitable giving, regular confession of minor faults).

    The Jews are the actual criminals, but wherein the true responsibility? Jews are few in number.. if God existed, and called us to judgement.. what will the verdict be for wealthy, educated non-Jews?

  274. refl says:
    @Anon 2

    Why Orthodox and ultra-Orthodox Jews loved Poland so much remains a mystery.

    It would have to do with the fact that Jews were so good tax collectors. The result were a small group of extremely wealthy Jews who maintained the communities and therefore had the religious leaders on their side and extremely poor communities, that would bear the consequences of popular anger.

    Solchenitsyn in 200 Years Together states that the oppression of Jews in tzarist Russia does not stand scrutiny. There were ever more exceptions to the rules of the Pale of Settlement, above all at a time when most Russians could not even leave their home villages. The Pale of Settlement was many times larger then any European state, at a time when regular citizens could not even travel freely beyond the statelet they were born into.

  275. @Dave Pinsen

    alpha doesn’t exist at scale (i.e., when funds under management are large enough to make the portfolio like a supertanker) – that has been my contention since 1997 at the latest.

    One of my best mates was a senior PM at BlackRock (before BR bulleted their entire SAE crew). He and I did Honours and Masters together (he finished second to me lol) and I suggested him as a good alternative to me for the life-changing ‘sliding doors’ job that I turned down at a hedge fund in ’98.

    When we discuss alpha his view is that super-tanker captains add to market efficiency just by being there.

    Upton Sinclair’s aphorism, or Twain’s notion of ‘corn pone opinions’ – either or both apply.

    Note that the lack of ‘super-tanker alpha’ is not the same as markets being efficient. I can show you a list of 160 consecutive successful trades, across 20 instruments and a range of timeframes – if markets were fully-efficient then the odds against that is larger than the inverse of the number of elementary particles in the universe; or two lists of 120 (which of course is orders of magnitude less likely than 1 list of 160).

    Speedboats vs supertankers. (Or to fractal it down a further notch: dolphins wake-surfing on speedboats… or krill wake-surfing on dolphins).

    One last thing: I have on my desk when I am at home, and in my satchel when i travel, a $100 trillion note (from Zimbabwe in 2008). That fact alone is enough to show why I would not have been a good fit at BlackRock (or Merrill, or Barclays, or anywhere else that my mate worked).

    Cogito cogito, ergo cogito sum… cogito. That’s why I’m a quantrarian. (Holy fuck, I think I just made that up. I am going to check if that domain name exists right the fuck now.)

    Yes… I’m drunk.

    And having just checked… quantrarian is already a thing. I have zero originality.

  276. @Anon 2

    Catholicism and Buddhism bear many similarities. That’s why when the Dalai Lama used to visit Europe, he typically stayed at Benedictine monasteries, and said he felt totally at home.

    There was buddhist dwellings in Alexandria, at the time of Jesus.
    His whereabout between childhood and aged 30 is unknown…

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  277. @Bardon Kaldian

    I gave you the reference, kindly read it. Your replies show you are unfamiliar with the current state of the research.

  278. @Anonymous

    Maybe the Chinese in Vancouver would be interested in hiring the whites to build a trans-Canada railroad.

  279. Seraphim says:
    @Parisian Guy

    Relations between the Hellenistic-Roman world and India are at least as old as the expedition of Alexander. Knowledge of India’s ‘philosophies’ was quite advanced, but that Buddhist teachings had a formative influence on Christianity proper remains in the domain of speculation.
    If it had any influence it was on the anti-Christian heresies of Christianity, Judeo-Christian, Gnostic, Mandaean, Manichean, Nazarene and on the birth of Islam (all opposed to the Apostolic Catholic Church’s teaching of the Incarnation of the Logos).

    • Replies: @j2
    , @Parisian Guy
  280. j2 says:
    @Seraphim

    “If it had any influence it was on the anti-Christian heresies of Christianity, Judeo-Christian, Gnostic, Mandaean, Manichean, Nazarene and on the birth of Islam (all opposed to the Apostolic Catholic Church’s teaching of the Incarnation of the Logos).”

    Buddhistic influences aside, but do you think Judeo-Christianity was not the original form of James the Just disciplines, that is, there are several similarities between the Gospel of Thomas and the Kabbalistic Idra Rabba. Like, James the Just was the reason why the earth and sky exist, that is, the foundation, a Tzaddic. And, what is also in letters of Paul, there were the tree pillars of the Church, like the pillars of Sepharoth. Gnostics had a fairly similar system as later Cabbalists: the lower God, later Microprosopus. I have been thinking about it and I think that Jesus came from a magical tradition, which continued in Cabbala. Calling the Name, miracles, raising the dead. Paul claimed to have been a Phariseus, so he should be from a different tradition, meaning that the Catholic Church, the one by Paul, is not the original tradition.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  281. Seraphim says:
    @j2

    I do not think that ‘Judeo-Christianity’ was the original form of Christianity, altered by Paul, if that’s what you mean.
    ‘Christianity’ is actually the Church, Holy, Apostolic and Catholic (universal) built by the Christ on the solid rock of the testimony of Peter: “Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God”. And “Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. 18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it”.

    [MORE]

    Now, the ‘third pillar’ referred to by Paul was not James the Just, the ‘Brother of the Lord’ but Jacob of Zebedee, the brother of John. James the Just was not an Apostle, initially he did not believe in Jesus. He was chosen by Peter and John to be the first bishop of the Church in Jerusalem.
    Andrew the ‘First called’ and his brother Peter and John and his brother Jacob, the sons of Zebedee (the Boanerges/Sons of the thunder), were the first Apostles called by Jesus.
    The ‘three pillars’ refer to Peter, John and Jacob who are witnesses of the Transfiguration on Mount Tabor, when they hear the voice of the Father: “This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him”.

    But John and Jacob are singled out and in other instance: “35 And James and John, the sons of Zebedee, come unto him, saying, Master, we would that thou shouldest do for us whatsoever we shall desire. 36 And he said unto them, What would ye that I should do for you? 37 They said unto him, Grant unto us that we may sit, one on thy right hand, and the other on thy left hand, in thy glory. 38 But Jesus said unto them, Ye know not what ye ask: can ye drink of the cup that I drink of? and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? 39 And they said unto him, We can. And Jesus said unto them, Ye shall indeed drink of the cup that I drink of; and with the baptism that I am baptized withal shall ye be baptized: 40 But to sit on my right hand and on my left hand is not mine to give; but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared. 41 And when the ten heard it, they began to be much displeased with James and John. 42 But Jesus called them to him, and saith unto them, Ye know that they which are accounted to rule over the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and their great ones exercise authority upon them. 43 But so shall it not be among you: but whosoever will be great among you, shall be your minister: 44 And whosoever of you will be the chiefest, shall be servant of all. 45 For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many” (Mark 10:35-45).
    Paul, as you should know, was called directly by Jesus and confirmed by the other Apostles. He did not preach anything different from the doctrine of the twelve Apostles.

    • Replies: @j2
    , @j2
  282. j2 says:
    @Seraphim

    I very much like discussing with you, as you know of these things, even though we may not agree.
    What do you say of:
    http://www.pienisalaliittotutkimus.com/2018/02/01/what-did-jesus-actually-teach/
    and that it is all astrology
    http://www.pienisalaliittotutkimus.com/2018/05/23/paradise-was-lost-9500-bc-the-myth-of-the-original-sin-is-in-the-stars/
    and that this is the messianic plan
    http://www.pienisalaliittotutkimus.com/2018/01/15/the-polar-star-and-human-migrations-in-prehistoric-europe/

    But I like your comments and your knowledge.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  283. Seraphim says:
    @j2

    Should I understand that you are Finnish? Finns had a long acquaintance with Orthodoxy (maybe from the time of the preaching of St. Andrew in ‘Scythia’, when the legend said that he founded the Valaamo Monastery!) and my advise to you would be to reacquaint yourself with it (I understand that it may be hard to get over the latent anti-Russian animus). That’s the only way to opening your understanding of the Scriptures (not the Zohar or astrology or the “Jesus Seminar”, or the ‘authorities’ like the Ehrmans and Talbots, or worst of all, your own imagination).
    Now, it became a truism that the first Christians were expecting the end promised by the Christ in their generation, but have been cruelly frustrated when it did not come and as a result Paul and his followers interpreted it ‘spiritually’ and betrayed the freedom fighters to the hated Romans.

    But did they really? Did really Jesus announced the end that the Jews were expecting: the coming of the King that would restore the Kingdom of Israel, chase the Romans and give them finally the dominion over the Gentiles?
    So, what did Jesus really said?
    “My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence” (John 18:36)
    “Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. 36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only” (Matthew 24:35-36).
    ” When they [the Apostles] therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? 7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. 8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth” (Acts 1:6-8).

    What Jesus really announced to the Apostles on the Mount of Olives, was the end of the Temple and of the Kingdom of Israel, which indeed happened in ‘that generation’ (and all the signs spoken of by Jesus have been described by Josephus and Tacitus – if one cares to read both), but that would not be the end of the world which is the ‘second coming’ of Jesus when He comes to judge the living and the dead (and the righteous would go into ‘life eternal’ in Heaven, and the unrighteous into “everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels” – yes Jesus believed in Hell!). But that’s what the ‘Judeo-Christians’ defiantly refused to understand, searching the ‘times and the seasons’ for the signs of the return of the warring Messiah (yes, they made a great use of astrology) infecting the world with apocalyptic millenarist-messianic madness and mounting rebellion after rebellion to our very days.

    The real cause is that they don’t believe in the Resurrection. “But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. 15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not. 16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: 17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. 18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. 19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable” (1 Cor 15:13-19).

    • Replies: @j2
  284. j2 says:
    @Seraphim

    “I understand that it may be hard to get over the latent anti-Russian animus.”

    I have been in Valamo, a chorus dressed as monks sang to us quite beautifully. I have nothing against the Orthodox church, but admit that I know little of it, being Lutherian myself. There is not much difference between Christian churches, but I like Orthodox keeping the Septuagint based Bible. The years of the patriarchs are not forged as in the Masoretic text.

    “Now, it became a truism that the first Christians were expecting the end promised by the Christ in their generation, but have been cruelly frustrated when it did not come and as a result Paul and his followers interpreted it ‘spiritually’ and betrayed the freedom fighters to the hated Romans.”

    [MORE]

    Of course not Paul, but after the war. The oldest Christian text, apart of Paul’s letters, is the Apocalypse. To me it describes the war as told by Josephus. It has clear astrological parts, as e.g. the sight John has in the sky. That is the night sky and the coming new Polar star, Polaris. The dracon is Draco. The woman is Ursa Minoris. This is also what Josephus says when he mentions that a voice was heard, we are leaving the temple. Check the route of the celestial north pole. The temple is the square of Ursa Minoris. The former Polar star was Kocbah, together with Pherhad, the two pillars of the temple of Solomon, the ladder of Jacob. But at the time of Jesus the celestial north pole was passing towards Polaris and at that time left the temple. That is, it was in Thuban in Draco when Egypt had its greatness, then it moved and the closest was Kocbah, which Hyksos and later Israelites understood as their sign, later the ladder and the temple. Around 1000 AD Polaris was the closest, but the time the God left the temple of Ursa Minoris is around 1 AD. Read carefully Apocalypsis, it has the city breaking into three fractions, like in the civil war in Jerusalem. 666 is Caesar Nero, the whore is Jerusalem and the temple. All fits well if you carefully read it. The meaning of Apocalypse is to witness that Jesus was the Messiah, so the events have already happened, only the ending promise (the Old Testament promises) are yet to come. As a conclusion Christians deduced that God has changed the chosen nation from Jews to them. Of Gospels it is difficult to say how much is accurate as they are later, especially John. Paul seems to have been collecting money for the rebels, Essenes, the poor of Jerusalem, I do not think he was betraying rebels to Romans. This is Eisenman’s claim and not true. But something in Eisenman may be correct. Paul was probably herodean and the original king messiah was Herod Agrippa I, Paul tries in Acts to overspeak Herod Agrippa II to this role, but failed. I think that in the war the indended king Messiah was Josephus Flavius, one of the last Hasmoneans.

    “The real cause is that they don’t believe in the Resurrection.”

    Read from Epistle of Barnabas. Barnabas is a Jewish Christian. He explains the crucifixion of Jesus as symbolized by the two goats of the atonenment day:

    7:9 What, therefore, meaneth this? Attend ye. One is brought to the altar, the other is accursed, and the accursed one is crowned, because they shall see him in that day, who had the scarlet robe about his flesh, and they shall say, Is not this he whom once we set at naught and crucified, and spat upon and pierced? Truly this was he who at that time said that he was the Son of God.

    7:10 How then was the one like to the other? In this respect were the goats like him: they were fair and equal, so that when they saw him coming they were astonished at the likeness to the goat. Therefore, behold here the type of Jesus, who was about to suffer.

    This does imply that Jewish Christians accepted that Jesus was resurrected, but it is unclear if it was a real resurrection or if there were two of them alike, like there were two goats. Essenes thought that there were to be two messiah characters, the prophet and the king. But as for resurrection, even scicarii who made a suicide on Masada believed in resurrection in the end. Also Zohar claims that there is resurrection (dew from marcoprosopus awakens the dead in Idra Rabba), so it is a Jewish messianic belief and included in the magical tradition.

    I understand your Christian starting point and it is possible that it is correct. I personally came up with a different version of history, something like
    http://www.pienisalaliittotutkimus.com/2018/12/26/connecting-the-dots-the-story-of-jesus/

  285. j2 says:
    @Seraphim

    “Now, the ‘third pillar’ referred to by Paul was not James the Just, the ‘Brother of the Lord’ but Jacob of Zebedee, the brother of John. James the Just was not an Apostle, initially he did not believe in Jesus. He was chosen by Peter and John to be the first bishop of the Church in Jerusalem.”

    I looked up for you the exact places in Acts and the Epistle to Galatians.

    Act 15:2 tells that Paul and Barnabas were called to Jerusalem to a council. This is after Jacob the Greater was killed by Herod Agrippa I (Act 12), Herod Agrippa died 44 AD.

    Epist. to Galatians 2:9 mentions the pillars: Jacob, Keefas, and John. Here Jacob is Jacob the Just, the brother of Jesus, who was the only apostle in addition to Peter that Paul saw in Galat 1:18-10. That is, before Jerusalem council Paul had not met Jacob the Greater, and he never met him as Jacob was executed before 44 AD.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  286. Seraphim says:
    @j2

    You are right. I fell in the same predicament like you, carelessly reading the text of the Scriptures and letting my own interpretation took over the literal meaning of the text. ‘Mystically’ Andrew, Peter, John and Jacob can be viewed as the ‘pillars’ of the Church (I would add Nathaniel), being the closest to Jesus, the first to acknowledge the divinity of Jesus (which Jacob the Just did not until after the Resurrection).
    But I did not introduce non-canonical and non-Christian texts to make my point. The Epistle of Barnabas is a non-canonical text. Neither is the ‘Gospel of Thomas’ (which is a downright heretical text) nor any ‘gnostic’ text. The Gospels as we know them have been written as the tradition always said, before the destruction of the Temple. They are not later than “Revelation’ which was late and quite reluctantly accepted as authentic Johanine, the Orthodox Church making no use of it in her services. If anything it contain a clear condemnation of the Judeo-Christians (the ‘synagogue of Satan’).
    The attempts of the ‘higher criticism’ to deny the divine inspiration of the the Scriptures (actually of the not symbolical, but real personal Resurrection of Jesus Christ), which start with the Wycliffean-Lutheran rebellions against the Tradition of the Church (and with substantial Jewish ‘contributions’) and ended up in the prevailing atheism of today (and of the buffoonish ‘Norse’ paganism), have largely failed to make their point. In any case the selection by the Church of the Gospels as we know them, was itself the result of a no less strenuous ‘criticism’ to establish their authenticity and not ‘imposed by Constantine’ along with the Nicaean Creed. There is a growing consensus among historians, scholars and textual experts that the four gospels definitely are the earliest of the accounts of Jesus’ life and they are, well… Gospel truth, the only ‘canon’, yardstick of interpretation of what Christianity is. There is no place for a ‘Judeo-Christianity’ in the Gospels, nor in the Epistles.

    Your ‘Da Vinci Code’ style alternative history novel might be entertaining (you can make a film), but as you noticed, it lacks any credible proof. I don’t buy it and I wonder whether anyone would.
    The accusation by the Scribes and Pharisees that Jesus ‘hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils’, is tantamount to the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit and whoever “shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation”.

    • Replies: @j2
  287. j2 says:
    @Seraphim

    In many ways I like you and think you have much knowledge, yet I notice your pen name and understand it: as you may know Seraphim is derived from Sarapih meaning burn. The function is to burn the false doctrine and convert man back to the righteous. Therefore, I make no effort to convert you, nor to quarrel with you, but I ask you to notice the following facts.

    Jesus links to the miracle maker tradition, like Honi the Circle Drawer, who was supposed to come again after 70 years (the period of the Halley comet). The one who came when Halley’s comet appeared was Herod Agrippa I, a son of Bethlehem (a small family of Mica) that Herod the Great persecuted, and who did descend from Jannai (Alexander Jannaeus) and several Mattais. Notice also that the Kabbalistic number of 72 angels is always in the tradition connected with the Maccabees: it was the Maccabees, who were to be supported with the Heavenly host.

    Jesus drew something on the sand.

    Nikodemus is Nakdimon ben Gurion, a magic maker in Talmud, who stopped the sun. He was in the resurrection, making the last service with Joseph of Arimathea. It is a bit strange to have a known magician participating in the burial of Jesus, if there was no magic there.

    The system in Zohar, and the system of Gnostics, is very similar to what we know of Jesus. As you may know, Abba (father, Chokmah, wisdom) and Aima (mother, Binah, understanding) had a son, microprosorus, the lower God, who is sacrificed in Tiphereth, Adam Kadmon. And the foundation, the reason why the earth and the sky was created (like the Gospel of Thomas says of James the Just) is the high priest, the priest like Melchizedek, as Paul says. Christians, when translating Zohar, that is Rosenroth in the 17th century, found so many similarities between kabbalah and Christianity that they tried to convert Jews to Christianity by using these. The similarities are true, Jews do not convert, but somebody like you could look at these similarities and conclude that the tradition is the same one.

    I guess I cannot convince one of the seraphim, the arch angels, but think about it when you have time, I tend to be correct on many things.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  288. @Seraphim

    Buddhist teachings had a formative influence on Christianity proper remains in the domain of speculation.

    No, it is a rational hypothesis, with a 50% probability.

    The main argument is that there is no other teaching than Buddhism, for previously owning so many of these points and ideas which are specifically Christian

  289. Seraphim says:
    @j2

    We all tend to be correct most of the times, but if even the Seraphim are sometimes in error, the probability that the Väinämöinens are is greater, notwithstanding their earthly ‘wisdom’.
    As a matter of fact my choice of the moniker had nothing to do with a pretension at an inquisitorial status, ready to burn the heretics as you ironically suggest. As I explained on other occasion when opponents sought to poke fun at it, it is a common personal and family name, in many countries.
    It is evident that there are similarities between all religious and mythical systems from Lapland to Arnhem Land, as they all derive from the common Tradition revealed to Adam (and all men descend from Adam, don’t they?). It is no less evident that there are particular adaptations of the Tradition to conditions of place and times, subject to particular revelations.
    Now, Christians have discovered those ‘similarities’ between Kabbalah and Christianity and saw in kabbalah a ‘tool of conversion’ long before Rosenroth (initiated by the Spanish ‘conversos’ in the 14th century, continued by Pico della Mirandola, Reuchlin in the 15th and 16th and many others). The unfortunate result of these efforts was the conversion of Christianity to Kabbalah and the Talmud and the debasement of the Christ to the rank of magicians (lesser that a Honi or Nakdimon) although the miracles performed by Jesus are not ‘magical’ (He was not ‘drawing circles’ and making incantations; He was resurrected by the Father, not by the magical rites of Nakdimon, as you seem to suggest). Neither had the ‘magician’ rabbis the power to forgive sins. And He, the King of the Universe, refused to be the temporal King of a rambunctious little tribe with delusions of grandeur.
    But Christians knew that “the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto myths”, “giving heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith” (1 Timothy).
    The time of the antichrists: “Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. 24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. 25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life” (1 John 2:22-25).

  290. j2 says:

    “And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto myths”, “giving heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith” (1 Timothy).”

    For Paul gave this advice to believers so that they would be saved to the eternal life. To be saved as a Christian there are two ways: do die as a martyr and be burned so that smoke rises to the heaven, or to die with sins forgiven and be woken up in the last day.

    For this is what all Jews believed: a faultless sacrifice surely rises to the throne of God and delivers their prayers, else had the temple sacrifices been futile. And as it is described in Revelations, uncounted number of martyr are in the feet of the slaughtered lamb and ask, when will you revenge us? When will you ride as a king and slaughter them so that blood flows to the knees, when will you split the bellies of their pregnant women?

    And this is what all Jews believed: in the last day God will wake the dead, some to fame some to infame.

    For walking either of these ways a Christian does not need to know the genealogies of Jesus, nor the myths, fables and legends of Jews. But Paul said so only of salvation. Surely he did not say that if you want to write the history of the early Church, pay no attention to names of people, genealogies, stories, other written sources, other witnesses, but use only what I wrote in my letters and what the good apostles said and become written down. He would advice you to find all you can. And the history of the Curch starts from the mission of Jesus, so he would ask you to think of how was it that: 1) Jesus’ disciples found a donkey, who put it there? 2) who poured oil on Jesus’ head to make him the Messiah, oiled? That could have been only the high priest or royal, or maybe a daughter of a high priest and a former queen, like Mariamne II Boethus. 3) How was Jesus’ body taken to the cave of a rich man, Arimathea, and why there was a know magician, Nicodeemus? For it was witten that the Messiah would be buried to a rich man’s grave. 4) Why the crowd wanter Jesus crucified? For the hands and the feet of the Messiah would be pierced. All these things happened, not by miracles, but was it coincidence or arranged? And what Talmud Sanhedrin say about Jesus having close relations to the royals.

    “The time of the antichrists: “Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. 24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. 25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life” (1 John 2:22-25).”

    To this I give you a question. When Jesus healed a person, he said, your faith has saved you. What faith was this? What was the person asked to believe? Jesus had not been resurrected yet, so not that Jesus has risen up. Jesus had not revealed that he is the Son of God yet, so not that either. The faith that saved the person was that he believed that Jesus is the Messiah and is given the power to forgive sins. This belief does not require believing in resurrection of Jesus in the sense of Paul: it is not so that if Jesus has not been resurrected, your belief is in vain. Surely, what John here says is true: the belief that is required is that Jesus is the Christ, the Messiah. That he has the titles of the Messiah, the son of man and the son of God. And that the blood of the Messiah gives redemption and even eternal life.

    About your comment on the common origin of religions, I wrote some short texts of it, maybe you are interested (though they may be heretical)
    http://www.pienisalaliittotutkimus.com/2018/01/15/the-polar-star-and-human-migrations-in-prehistoric-europe/
    http://www.pienisalaliittotutkimus.com/2018/05/23/paradise-was-lost-9500-bc-the-myth-of-the-original-sin-is-in-the-stars/
    http://www.pienisalaliittotutkimus.com/2018/06/01/the-very-ancient-origin-of-our-concept-of-god/
    http://www.pienisalaliittotutkimus.com/2018/06/04/the-polar-star-baal-cycle-messiah-and-the-temple/
    http://www.pienisalaliittotutkimus.com/2018/05/30/the-fall-of-one-civilization-and-the-end-of-the-times-around-3000-bc/
    But I am no antichrist. I fully agree with the words of John. Jesus was the Jewish Messiah.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  291. Seraphim says:
    @j2

    I have written a reply quoting the real words of John about the Christ, but apparently it was taken down. Perhaps it was too long.
    “For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist”.
    “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men… And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth”.
    So, the faith of the people healed was not in Jesus as the ‘Jewish Messiah’, but in the Word made flesh in the person of the ‘historical’ Jesus who was a Jew, and in his power to forgive sins.

    “Why does this man speak like this? He is blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?”
    It is not the faith of the sick which heals him but the power of God.

    “And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth. 2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? 3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him. 4 I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work. 5 As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world. 6 When he had thus spoken, he spat on the ground, and made clay of the spittle, and he anointed the eyes of the blind man with the clay, 7 And said unto him, Go, wash in the pool of Siloam, (which is by interpretation, Sent.) He went his way therefore, and washed, and came seeing…
    Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God? 36 He answered and said, Who is he, Lord, that I might believe on him? 37 And Jesus said unto him, Thou hast both seen him, and it is he that talketh with thee. 38 And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him. 39 And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind. 40 And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also? 41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth”.

    • Replies: @j2
  292. j2 says:
    @Seraphim

    Thanks for answering.

    I think that you misunderstand what I mean by Jewish Messiah. That is not the Messiah of rabbinic Judaism, which developed after Christ as a negation of Christianity. I meant Essene Messiah. There were to be two Messias figures, the prophet Messiah, (Messiah ben Joseph) and the kind Messiah (Messiah ben David). The first one was a man like Moses making miracles and redeeming sins.

    All your references are to John, but had the real Jesus spoken as Jesus speaks in John, he would have been stoned. In synaptic gospels these things are hidden until resurrection. John makes explicit what was not explicit in the time before crucifixion. The gospel, as it starts with the Word, was at one time thought to have gnostic influences. This is not the opinion any more, but it does have kabbalistic parallels.

    The world was created by the Word, letters. Son of man is from Daniel, and it means the Messiah. Son of God appears in the Dead Sea Scroll 4Q246 (probably Essene text), but there it seems to be a title of a prince, who is only called Son of God. It could be Augustus, the adopted son of the new god Julius Caesar. In John it is a title of the Messiah.

    However, Son of God is also a kabbalistic concept YHVH, where wisdom=Y, understanding=H, son=V and the son’s bride (the church) is the second H, as H (Elohom) is feminine. Jews had such metaphysics latest around 400-800 AD, but they did not come from Christianity and I do not think they could have come from Christian Gnosticism. Thus, they were Jewish Gnosticism, which there was around 1 century BC (like Orphites, the snake worshippers). Acts tells how Jews burned their magical books when Paul preached to them. I think it is possible that some concepts in John are Jewish gnosticism/early kabbalism.

    Eisenman tells of a Jewish Christian sect, a predecessor of Ebionites, who pictured Jesus as Adam, ten miles long in the sky, and he had a bride/sister, also as long. That seems like YHVH last two letters and Adam Kadmon of Kabbalah. You earlier discarded Nazareans, an Essene sect, but Muslims call Christians Nazarene. I think the roots of Christianity are there and the correct understanding of the New testament should look for these roots.

    I understand the moderators. What does this have to do with de Gaulle’s thoughts of Jews. These discussions diverse too much from the topic. Maybe we should stop.

    • Replies: @j2
  293. j2 says:
    @j2

    Seraphim,

    Notice also that Jesus did not do anything that can be called good (why do you call me good, only God is good?). That is, healing with hands does not cure, feeding once does not remove hunger, not resisting evil is not recommended, not marrying is not recommended, dying as a sacrifice is not good, and so on all the way, nothing good. What Jesus did was mercy. That is, there were two pillars (principles) in Jewish thought, justice and mercy. To say do to others as you want them to do to you means show mercy as you want to be shown mercy. Mercy, because at the end of the days would be judgement. The Messiah (Jesus) would deliver the judgement. Mercy cannot exist without justice in this system, only together they make good, so what Jesus taught was only for the time before the Judgement Day, to have Mercy on that day.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  294. Seraphim says:
    @j2

    But is it not precisely John that tells us that the Jews wanted to stone him because he made himself God?
    “And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon’s porch. 24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly. 25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father’s name, they bear witness of me. 26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and my Father are one. 31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. 32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? 33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. 34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; 36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? 37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. 38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him. 39 Therefore they sought again to take him: but he escaped out of their hand” (John 10:23-39).

    But was not Jesus uniting in himself the Messiah ‘figures’ of Prophet, Priest and King? Indeed the discussion should stop here and you are free to convert to Islam.

    • Replies: @j2
  295. j2 says:
    @Seraphim

    “But was not Jesus uniting in himself the Messiah ‘figures’ of Prophet, Priest and King? Indeed the discussion should stop here and you are free to convert to Islam.”

    The writer of John could well imagine how the Jews would respond to the words he wrote to the mouth of Jesus. As for Islam, I have no intention on converting to Islam or Judaism. I consider myself Christian, but essentially I am just a researcher who is interested in the origins of Christianity. But allow me explain a bit more. It is rare for a mere mortal to have the opportunity to explain religion to an arch angel.

    Jewish thought on Jesus time was strongly influenced by Hellenism, so they created a speculative system reflecting their old religion. In this thought there were two pillars, justice and mercy. They were also understood as the pillars of the temple of Solomon (originally the two pillars, like the ladder of Jacob were simply Kochab and Pherkad, the two bright starts of the square of Ursa Minor). The pillar of justice was Hammurabi justice: eye for eye and tooth for tooth, and mercy was the mercy of a king, who shows mercy instead of justice. Notice, that we do not think this way any more. The goal of our justice system is reducing crime, not revenge (paying a deed with a similar deed) and mercy has no role there (the capital punishment is not removed for mercy, but because it is seen as barbarian, ineffective and sometimes a wrong person is put to death).

    But Jews had this way of thinking, the two pillars, which are opposites in a dialectic way. One being wisdom and mercy and the other understanding and judgement. Taking them as abba and aima, father and mother, you get the son: the altar sacrifice where the son of these two takes the sins of others, and justice is fulfilled as sins are punished, while mercy is fulfilled as the real sinners are released. This fitted to the biblical demand of the sacrifice of the firstborn son. Originally the sacrifice of the firstborn son did not have this content. It was a part of a sacrifice of every firstborn male, animals as well as humans. This old rule was probably a way to avoid mutational overload by preventing the direct male lineage from monopolizing the females and creating competition between the male offspring. There are many tales where the oldest son does not inherit, but some other son in Canaanite societies. But in Helelnistic times this old rule was given a dialectic interpretation, thus Jesus was the Son of God and had to die for the sins of others, fulfilling mercy and justice. He showed mercy as the only way to salvation (judge not so you will not be judged, nobody is without sin, so the path of justice cannot work). Paul explains it very correctly. But later Jesus, as the Messiah, comes to deliver judgement in the Day of Judgement. So, as he first showed mercy, later he shows Justice.

    Jesus was in the middle pillar. This middle pillar is the altar service, the synthesis of justice and mercy. The sacrifice in the sephiroth tree is Beauty (the beautiful son), while under it is Foundation, the high priest, the one for whom the sky and earth were created, as the Gospel of Thomas says of James the Just. Jesus was also the foundation, the high priest according to Melchizedek. The middle pillar is Adam Kadmon, and his bride is the world, or in Christian thought, the Church, the people, Jerusalem. In the middle pillar there is the sex symbolism as abba and aima make a child, and also the heavenly marriage of Adam Kadmon and his bride.

    You see all this in the sephiroth tree of Kabbalah (in the book of concealment and the two idras), but can immediately notice the Hellenistic influences: gnostics thought that Sofia, wisdom, had created the Demiurg (the lower God, the Short Nose) without the permission of her husband. Jews modified the thought so that abba, wisdom has the son with aima, understanding. In kabbalah you have the sex content, the holy marriage of abba and aima, which was also included in old Judaism (asheroth and yahweh, the asheroth poles and the standing stone). Christianity dropped this one, but it has the symbol of Christ and his bride, the Church.

    In this way you see that Christianity is very similar to kabbalism and gnostisism is an offshoot of it by non-Jewish Christians, who saw the Demiurg as an evil and stupid God. Yet, what you should notice is that these are only human thoughts of that time. There is nothing there that stands careful scrutiny. The Platonic concept of God in the Republic is in many ways superior. But in fact, the natural conclusion is that nothing is known from God. This is in a way in kabbalah, nothing can be known of Keter, but there is a mistake: kabbalah still maintains that Keter is mercy. This thought was the outcome of seeing that God does not punish the evildoers and lets the sun shine on all. But the thought is false, it need not be mercy.

    As for your question if Jesus was both Messiah characters, that is the way Christians understood it after the First Jewish War was lost by Jews. I doubt it was the original understanding. The Messiah was the same, but the human form not. There was to appear a king Messiah. I think originally it was to be Herod Agrippa I, a Hasmonean prince in any case. Only this explains the murde of the children by Bethlehem by Herod the Great (Betlehem in Mica is a minor family, not a city), the star of Bethlehem (the Halley comet before Herod Agrippa I was born), and Jannai (Alexander Jannaeus) and several Mattiases in Jesus’ genealogy in Luke. So, the Messiah is a godly figure, to appear in a human form. The form (incarnation in kabbalah) is not the same, the task is and the spirit is.

    Some seeds fall to good ground, may this seed of doubt grown in you and bring forth truth.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
    , @Dube
  296. @Marcus

    The mistake is to consider a “tool” what is clearly in the Nature, in the History, in the eyes: to try to cancel the differences is the “tool” to act against what is normal, real, clear and to impose an empty humanitarianism attracting immigration in Europe. It is a left, positivistic, clerical assumption against the reality of the things. It won’t work, neither behind the screen of the racism. The identity is a root of the Man and Coudenove Kalergy was wrong.
    The differences are the salt of the Culture and the Peace among the People is the dish.

  297. Seraphim says:
    @j2

    For someone who want to ‘explain religion’ to angels it is surprising that he doesn’t know that the archangels belonged to the lowest rank of angels, just above the guardian angels.
    The Seraphim were the highest rank, closest to God and radiating the Pure Light. These are the Angels who constantly sing God’s praise, and whose duty it is to regulate the heavens. You cannot teach them anything. They know better (and are very likely older than you) and you should listen to them.

    • Replies: @j2
  298. j2 says:
    @Seraphim

    Thanks for correction. I once studied some angelology, but it was long ago and most things one once learned are already forgotten. We end this discussion to your valid point that nobody cannot be taught anything as everybody already knows everything, all the best.

  299. Dube says:
    @j2

    J2, if that thief on the cross cried out hopefully to you, what would you tell him? No chance? He’d never have time to read up, let alone have hands free to turn pages.

    • Replies: @j2
  300. j2 says:
    @Dube

    “J2, if that thief on the cross cried out hopefully to you, what would you tell him? No chance? He’d never have time to read up, let alone have hands free to turn pages.”

    I would say that there are fairly good arguments that a soul exists in some other space and is not created in birth, nor destroyed in death, and the idea of eternal torture in Hell contradicts the principle of proportional punishment for the crime done and could not agree even with the second temple sense of justice. Then I would naturally add some mumble jumble of bifurcating quantum fields and time reversal as Swarzenegger in Terminator 5.

    Admittedly, it would not be not as terse as to say, tomorrow you are in Paradise, but it is better justified. Why would I make it short, they guy is going to hang there for days. But firstly, I would not die for somebody’s sins, since how could I take away the sin of a murderer, as this guy was: he would remember his deeds to the end of his life and others would also, so not in this life, and in the life to come, didn’t Jesus also say that those who are here low are there high, but if both high and low believed and got their sins redeemed, why would they not be equal there, which again is against justice and against Jesus’ message. So, it would be a contradiction. One contradiction destroys a theory.

    It is really so that Jesus’ message means redeeming the sins of the people so that God would show mercy and let the people again rule the Promised land, win the planned war, and rule over all gentiles and get their gold.

    • Replies: @Dube
  301. Dube says:
    @j2

    It is really so that Jesus’ message means redeeming the sins of the people so that God would show mercy and let the people again rule the Promised land, win the planned war, and rule over all gentiles and get their gold.

    Aha! Really just a grisly pr stunt in a nefarious cause.

    • Replies: @j2
  302. j2 says:
    @Dube

    “Aha! Really just a grisly pr stunt in a nefarious cause.”

    A plan to fulfill the prophesies of the Old Testament. These prophesies are nefarious if you are a gentile and a great promise if you are a Jew.

    But it was not a pr stunt. Original disciples of Jesus preached the message only to Jews. It was that the end of the times is near and the prophet Messiah has come. This prophet messiah, according to a Dead Sea Scroll prophecy was to be called Son of God and he would stay only for some years, but later God’s people would rise and gain the land, that is Essenes.

    St. Paul was collecting money from gentiles and as a payment giving them the chance of dying as martyrs and being taken to Heaven, though they were not Jews. But the original disciples did not allow Paul to teach to Jews, because what he taught was not what Jesus had taught.

    The prophet Messiah, the Son of Man, would heal the sick, raise the dead, carry their sins, proclaim the good news to the poor, but he would be crucified and die for the sins of the people, but in this way he would redeem the sins as a sacrifice and the high priests (disciples) would drink his blood and be saved, as redemption is in blood.

    But the Messiah would come again, as the king Messiah, when the signs are in the sky, the comet and the cross, and fight the war, but first people would go to the war and lose and be taken to slavery and the temple would be destroyed, but then God would rise and defeat the enemies and all Old Testament prophecies would be fulfilled.

    But Jews lost and God did not interfere, so Jewish Christian write of the Revelations interpreted that God had changed his promised people and the new promised people were Christians. And so Christianity become the good and universal religion. For a thousand years Christians did not fight wars against Christians. They stopped slavery. They followed teachings of the New testament as well as they could (the Byzantine Empire could not, it was an empire). Around 800-900 AD started the corruption of the Church, first in Rome where an aristocratic family got power in the Church. Then Christians converted people with a sword, which they had not done so far. Christians fought Christians. But this was after the thousand years which was promised. The thousand years ended to the First Crusade, where Crusaders did what the Revelation says of the rider on a white horse, the winner, and blood up to knees. But the massacre was only in Jerusalem, not everywhere. After that, the last thousand years, the Church got corrupted, as it was said: the enemy gathers new troops to the final battle.

    Yes, it is like this in my opinion. Not a pr stunt but an intentional fulfillment of prophecies. Sometimes the plan failed, like when the Romans won, so Christians got their 1000 years, but the game went on after that.

  303. Dube says:

    Thank you for your responses. As you are a researcher into the origins of Christianity, your thoughts are worthy of regard. But for your rejecting the appeal of the crucified criminal, as you argued in #307, you’d have to subdue John 5:22-27, beginning with, “The Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son….”

    Give the chap a break, can’t we? It sounds as if the case doesn’t await our approval or disapproval.

    • Replies: @j2
    , @j2
    , @Seraphim
  304. j2 says:
    @Dube

    “As you are a researcher into the origins of Christianity, your thoughts are worthy of regard.”

    Only a hobbyist, not a scholar, I do not even read any of the relevant languages. But I looked again at Luke 23:43.: Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”
    That is Friday. You agree that Jesus was going to Death to defeat the death and be risen only in Sunday morning. So, to be strict, in Friday Jesus was not in paradise at any time. Maybe he meant it as enjoy this paradise here with me today, while we still live. It is about the same as in the Life of Brian: “always look at the bright side of life”. In Revelations, in two places it is said that people are judged by the deeds (Rev.20:13), maybe John 5:22-27 changes it, but nothing is really changed.

    In Revelations 21:26, your English Bible has the text “And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.”, but in my Bible it is “honour and riches”, just like it is in Zecharias 14:14: “The wealth of all the surrounding nations will be collected–great quantities of gold and silver and clothing”. So, in Christianity they also take all gold. All nations will have to pray God of Israel (Zech 14:17-19), or they will be exterminated, it is not changed in Rev 21:24 and Rev 9:20. In Rev 2:27 Jesus gives his disciples the power to rule pagans and crush them like earthenware, not so nice.
    So, Christianity has the same end-of-the-time prophecies as the Old Testament.

    And you can look at kabbalah to get the meaning of what is meant.
    In Revelations the slaughtered lamb is victorious (see e.g Rev 2:26). Victory is the lowest sephiroth on the left pillar Wisdom (Father) – Mercy- Victory. The right pillar is Understanding (Mother) – Judgement – Glory. Second time the Messiah comes in glory and judges all people. In the middle pillar is Beauty (Son) – Foundation (the high priest, Tzaddik, Melchizedek) – Kingdom (Bride of the Son, Jerusalem, Church, the material world). So, what Jesus conquered with the sacrifice is that he represented Mercy, the pillar of Father, and was victorious, as in that pillar is meant. Especially the Gospel of John has much what may seem like Gnostic philosophy, but is quite similar to kabbalism. Further more, titles of Messiah similar to the titles of Jesus in Gospels: Son of Man, Son of God, elect of God, begotten by God, firstborn of God, have all been found in the Dead Sea Scrolls proving that it was a branch of Judaism, messianic Judaism, which continued in kabbalism.

    • Replies: @Dube
  305. j2 says:
    @Dube

    “John 5:22-27, beginning with, “The Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son….” ”

    I read my answer to you and decided it is too unclear, so I try to write it better. In order to understand what John 5:22-27 means, consider this. The left pillar in the sephiroth tree is

    Wisdom (Father)
    Mercy
    Victory

    Thus, Father does not judge anyone, he is full of mercy. But the middle pillar, the Son begotten by the Father (Adam Kadmon) with the Mother (Understanding) is

    Beaty (Son)
    Foundation
    Kingdom (Church, the Bride)

    When the son is sacrificed, he redeems the sins for those who drink his blood, as in blood is redemption. Then the son sits on the right side of Father. That is the right pillar:

    Understanding (Mother)
    Judgement
    Glory

    So, the Son comes again in Glory and will judge all. The marriage of the Lamb and the Bride is told in the Revelation. They give a feast to the guests, The guests can eat all bodies of the people killed by the Lamb. This is a nice religion, you see. John of Patmos was Jewish Christian, so he does not have any kindness typical to Paul. John of Patmos explains everything from the Old Testament, Relevations has 400 references to the Old Testament.

    • Replies: @Dube
  306. Dube says:
    @j2

    Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.

    Problems. But the original Greek language uses no commas, so we are challenged to “rightly divide the word of truth.”

    Here’s one proposed reading with a different comma placement:

    Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in paradise.

    The crucified criminal is asking to be “remembered” by an eternal being.

    How that interpretation works with descending into Hell on Friday, if that’s what happened, and the meaning of “paradise”… I’ll let you know, if I get knocked from my horse convincingly enough.

    That answer reminds me of the skeptical challenge that Augustine faced: Why did God choose to create the universe when He did, and not at some other time? Augustine reasoned that time begins with Creation, and God is beyond time.

  307. Dube says:
    @j2

    John 5:22-27, beginning with, “The Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son….

    J2, whether or not one accepts the claim, it seems pretty clear without relating it to the kaballah. You know far more about the latter than I do, and at this point I won’t be catching up. However that, may the Spirit of Truth lead rather than the Spirit of Error. Handshakes on that for us both, I hope.

  308. Seraphim says:
    @Dube

    It looks rather like a naive amateur whose ‘bible’ are the speculations of the ‘liberator of the Dead Sea Scrolls’ from the captivity of the Dominicans, the ‘beatnik’ and ‘kibutznik’ Robert Eisenman, of the ‘liberal Hebrew Christian’ Hugh Schonfield (The Original New Testament, The Passover Plot), of the Free-Mason Michael Baigent (Holy Blood, Holy Grail) and ‘Da Vinci Code’, peppered with some Kabbalah and Nibirian Annunakis a la Zecharia Sitchin.
    If you connect the dots you can see where the ‘plot’ was.

    • Replies: @j2
    , @Dube
  309. j2 says:
    @Seraphim

    Sure Seraphim, but the end of the time is still around 2033 AD, whatever you with your great wisdom claim.
    http://www.pienisalaliittotutkimus.com/2019/07/14/revelation-also-gives-the-end-as-2033-ad/

    I took you, Seraphim, as a fairly educated commenter, but I see you are simply fake.

  310. Dube says:
    @Seraphim

    If you connect the dots you can see where the ‘plot’ was.

    Now there’s an utmost of the arcane.

    • Replies: @Dube
  311. Dube says:
    @Dube

    Matthew 28:18. Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.”

    And some are not happy to hear it. I’m off for a few days. Best wishes.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  312. Seraphim says:
    @Dube

    What they are not happy to hear is that:
    “And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All authority* is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen”.

    *exousia: power to act, authority, ἐξουσία, ας, ἡ
    /eksousía (“delegated power”) refers to the authority God gives to His saints – authorizing them to act to the extent they are guided by faith (His revealed word).
    It is the authority given by the Father to Jesus who gives it to the Apostles and therefore to the Apostolic and Catholic Church. ” Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. 22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: 23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained” (John 20:21-23).
    He therefore gives to the Apostle and the keys of interpretation of the prophecies:
    “For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. 18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount. 19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost” (2 Peter 1:16-21).

    You may notice that Peter used the same words ‘honour and glory’/τιμὴν καὶ δόξαν as Revelation 21:26: ‘glory and honor/δόξαν καὶ τὴν τιμὴν’. Nothing about riches.

    • Replies: @j2
  313. j2 says:

    “You may notice that Peter used the same words ‘honour and glory’/τιμὴν καὶ δόξαν as Revelation 21:26: ‘glory and honor/δόξαν καὶ τὴν τιμὴν’. Nothing about riches.”

    These predictions reflect Old Testament predictions, thus they have the same meaning and cannot have any other meaning. I looked at these places. I am not at all qualified in saying why in the Finnish bible the places are translated as:
    2 Peter 1:17 “God’s honor and brightness”
    Rev 21:24 “take there their honor”
    Rev 21:26 “honor and riches”

    But if we look at the original, the texts are not quite the same:
    2 Peter: (kai) doxan so doxan without the article the
    Rev 21: 24 “ten doxan kai timen” doxan is with the article the but timen has no article
    Rev 21:26 “ten doxan kai ten timen” both doxan and timen have the article the.

    It is true that doxan can be brightness, thus the Finnish bible can translate doxan in 2 Peter 1:17 as brightness. Timen also has the meaning value, like value of silver, so it does not need to refer to honor. Probably the chosen translation reflects the articles and the lack of them, but more likely it reflects the underlying Old Testament prophecy. However, this is beyond mine, and also your’s, competence, as we must assume that bible translators in every country have reasons for choosing the words they chose.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  314. j2 says:
    @Seraphim

    You want to give the New Testament a kind meaning. It does support this meaning, at least if one used the Sermon of the Mount as a proof, but this piece may well be an addition. Yet, Revelation is from a Jewish Christian John of Patmos from around 96 AD and it has a very clear passage that explains what is the character of the rule of Christ. It is exactly the same as in Zechariah, nothing good for non-Jews:
    “To the one who is victorious and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nations— 27 that one ‘will rule them with an iron scepter and will dash them to pieces like pottery’[a]—just as I have received authority from my Father.”

  315. Seraphim says:
    @j2

    Bible translators indeed chose to translate words with multiple meanings according to their preconceptions.

    ‘Doxa’ (δόξα, -ης, ἡ) besides the meaning of ‘glory, splendor, brilliance’ has the meaning of ‘opinion’ (hence ortho-doxy=correct opinion) and ‘praise’.
    ‘Time’ (τιμή, ῆς, ἡ) besides the meaning of ‘valuing, price’ has the meaning of ‘deference, reverence, veneration’.

    So, the nations and the Kings of the earth will ‘bring their praises and veneration’ to ‘the glory of God [that] lighten the Heavenly Jerusalem, and the Lamb is the light thereof”.
    And indeed “there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie*: but they which are written in the Lamb’s book of life”.
    *”the dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie”, not the ‘non-Jews’.

    • Replies: @j2
  316. j2 says:
    @Seraphim

    Fine, let us say that this particular phrase in Revelation does not in any clear way imply the rule of the iron rod. But there are many other arguments that Jesus’ mission was a part of an effort by Herod Agrippa to get to power. I will give you one quite convincing one.

    Read Daniel 12:11. It gives 1290 days from setting the abomination of desolation to the end of these events (Messiah, salvation, raising of some dead as in 12:2). Jesus mentions abomination of desolation as a sign to yet happen. The abomination is explained in Daniel 9:27 as abomination made by a destroyer. This abomination in Daniel is the statue that Antiochus IV Epiphanes set to the temple in 167 BC. Thus, the abomination should be a statue to be set to the temple between 28 AD and 70 AD, as the temple was destroyed in 70 AD and Jesus’ word cannot be earlier than 28 AD. The only statue can be the plan of putting a statue of Caligula to the temple around 41 AD. We can approximate the time better from information of Josephus, it seems to be about 113 days before Caligula was assassinated 24. Jan 41. The events should have ended 1290 days after this time. It takes us to 15. April 44 AD. Let us notice that Herod Agrippa tried to declare himself divine in 5. April 44 (Passover games for in the honor of Claudius). Agrippa was poisoned and died 5 days later. Thus, there seems to be very precisely 1290 days from the attempt to put the statue to the temple and from Agrippa’s effort to declare himself as the Messiah (as he was Orthodox Jewish, a divine human could only be the Anointed one). This was the intended start of the war against Rome (shown by the fact that Agrippa built walls around Jerusalem) and the end of prophecy.

    Connect this to Jesus. It is Agrippa’s genealogy in Luke. Agrippa was born soon after Halley’s comet, the star of Bethlehem. It was Hasmonean princes that Herod the Great killed, they were the sons of Bethlehem, a minor family of Israel in Mica’s prophecy. Jesus knew that there would be a new abomination of desolation soon after his death. There was not, as Caligula was assassinated, and there was no king Messiah as Agrippa was poisoned. Therefore Christians interpreted the abomination as the murder of James the Just, which parallels a murder on the temple of a high priest in 171 BC, but the 1290 days of Daniel do not match and there came no king Messiah, or Second Coming of Jesus after these days from 62 AD or 69 AD.

    Thus, we see that Jesus’ prophecy of abomination failed. It was a human prophecy, connected with a royal plot of a prince Agrippa, who as a friend of Caligula most probably suggested putting the statue to a wrong place that would start a Jewish revolt against Rome. By this time Jesus and his disciples had not preached anything to Gentiles. The good message was meant only for Jews. Herod Agrippa persecuted Jesus’ disciples as there was to be the time of tribulation, and Saul, a relative of Herodians, persecuted disciples.

    Only after this original plot failed, Saul become Paul and preached the good news to Gentiles. (Notice, these Gentiles should keep the Sabbath, Isaiah 56:6) There had to be another king Messiah, who I think was originally Josephus Flavius. And James the Just was killed to get the abomination prophecy fulfilled. What was to happen is that Jews were to win the war, but as they lost, Josephus declared Vespasianus as the king Messiah, and this is the bloody character in Revelations 19:15-16.

    As you try to defend the traditional interpretation, explain the case of Caligula’s statue, Herod Agrippa’s death, why the time is just about 1290 days, and why Jesus made a failed prophecy of the abomination. When you explain these to yourself, you see clearly: there was a conspiracy, a royal plot to get to power, nothing divine was involved in this plot. And consequently, the plan for non-Jews is as in Mica 7:16, Obadja 11 and 15 (so their riches are taken away), Joel 3, Hosea 14, Ezekiel 38:22, and this honor and glory is from Isaiah 11, but Isaiah 12;14 tells that Israelites will rob men of the east. So, they will rob the riches, they will lend to many nations, but not borrow. Zech 14: 14 does say wealth.

    Just give up, false angel, it is useless to try to explain prophecies in any other way.

  317. Seraphim says:

    Agrippa was not poisoned, but “struck by an angel of the Lord because he did not give God the glory, and he was eaten by worms and breathed his last”, like his grand-father of accursed memory.

    [MORE]

    Josephus said the same: ” Presently his flatterers cried out, one from one place, and another from another, (though not for his good) that he was a god; and they added, “Be thou merciful to us; for although we have hitherto reverenced thee only as a man, yet shall we henceforth own thee as superior to mortal nature.” Upon this the king neither rebuked them nor rejected their impious flattery. But he shortly afterward looked up and saw an owl sitting on a certain rope over his head, and immediately understood that this bird was the messenger of ill tidings, just as it had once been the messenger of good tidings to him; and fell into the deepest sorrow. A severe pain arose in his belly, striking with a most violent intensity. He therefore looked upon his friends, and said, ‘I, whom you call a god, am commanded presently to depart this life; while Providence thus reproves the lying words you just now said to me; and I, who was by you called immortal, am immediately to be hurried away by death”.

    Interesting that in the Talmud it is said that the King read from Deuteronomy. Was he struck when he read the curses of 27:15: “Cursed be the man that maketh a graven or molten image, an abomination unto the LORD, the work of the hands of the craftsman, and setteth it up in secret. And all the people shall answer and say: Amen”? That indeed he suggested to Caligula to erect his statue?
    And that he transgressed the 17:15: “thou shalt in any wise set him king over thee, whom the LORD thy God shall choose; one from among thy brethren shalt thou set king over thee; thou mayest not put a foreigner over thee, who is not thy brother”. But he was appointed by Caligula and the people said Amen to that: “When Agrippa reached the commandment of Deuteronomy 17:15 that “you may not put a foreigner over you” as king, his eyes ran with tears, but they said to him, “Don’t fear, Agrippa, you are our brother, you are our brother!”
    He transgressed further: “The king would recite the same blessings as the High Priest, except that the king would substitute a blessing for the festivals instead of one for the forgiveness of sin”.
    It may well be that the ‘abomination’ was him, one of the “many [who] shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many”, but the Star of Bethlehem was not the Halley’s comet announcing the ‘Messiah’ Herodes Agrippa.

    Jesus commanded his disciples to preach to the Gentiles before His Ascension and his disciples obeyed. It was Peter who baptized the Roman centurion Cornelius:
    “And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. 43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. 44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. 45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter [to the house of Cornelius], because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, 47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days” (Acts 10:42-48).
    But was not that the prophesy of Christ made at the house of another centurion who asked to heal his servant:
    “Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel. 11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. 12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth”? (Matthew 8:10-12).
    You better stop calling Jesus a false prophet.

Current Commenter
says:

Leave a Reply - Comments on articles more than two weeks old will be judged much more strictly on quality and tone


 Remember My InformationWhy?
 Email Replies to my Comment
Submitted comments become the property of The Unz Review and may be republished elsewhere at the sole discretion of the latter
Subscribe to This Comment Thread via RSS Subscribe to All Guillaume Durocher Comments via RSS
PastClassics
Which superpower is more threatened by its “extractive elites”?
The “war hero” candidate buried information about POWs left behind in Vietnam.
What Was John McCain's True Wartime Record in Vietnam?
Are elite university admissions based on meritocracy and diversity as claimed?