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The Demographic Revolution in Hungary
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Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orbán: Practicing what he preaches.
Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orbán: Practicing what he preaches.

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Anyone with an understanding of the realities of heredity and ethnicity knows, as the saying goes, that “demography is destiny.” To understand this is easy, to actually act upon these demographic trends is, however, quite difficult. It is very hard to get your citizens to make more babies and even hard to get the “right” ones to do so.

In ancient times, the societies which survived tended to be those who overwhelmingly valued and facilitated child-rearing, including early marriages and a sexual division of labor (women staying in the home). Today, such practices are considered oppressive, but these made perfect sense in their context. As Ezra Pound observed:

An ethic based on a belief that men are different from what they are is manifestly stupid. It is stupid to apply such an ethic as it is to apply laws and morals designed for a nomadic tribe, or for a tribe in the state of barbarism, to a people crowded into the slums of a modern metropolis. Thus in the tribe it is well to beget children, for the more strong male children you have in the tribe the less likely you are to be bashed on the head by males of neighbouring tribes, and the more female children the more rapidly the tribe will increase. Conversely it is a crime rather worse than murder to beget children in a slum, to beget children for whom no fitting provision is made, either as touching their physical or economic wellbeing.[1]

Reproductive and familial imperatives, mandating that the right people reproduce in the right numbers and in the right way, can be found in most traditional societies, and is still reflected in religions such as Hinduism and Judaism. In the Western tradition, the ancient Greeks went furthest in turning the religiously-inspired imperative of reproduction into a self-conscious and rational biopolitics. All this long predates Darwin. The Christians too, at their marriage ceremony, implore God: “Unite them in one mind; wed them into one flesh, granting to them of the fruit of the body and the procreation of fair children.”

In modern times, one cannot however rely on such coercive traditional cultural norms to maintain fertility rates. Most people rebel against them (perhaps, in a few centuries, we will find that small groups that manage to maintain traditional fertility, such as the Mormons and Orthodox Jews, will inherit the Earth). Moderns find it difficult to raise fertility.

The French were greatly concerned about their demographic decline in the nineteenth century, by which they went from being Europe’s preeminent power to merely one great power among several, vulnerable for the first time to German hegemony. France’s various pro-natalist policies were quite ineffective however, although perhaps these eventually bore fruit with the country’s strangely long-lasting postwar baby (France maintained replacement-level fertility long after that it had collapsed in most of the rest of Europe).

Only a few modern countries, it seems to me, have been successful in raising or maintaining fertility: these include Fascist Italy, the Third Reich, and Israel. In each case, pro-natalist policies are not taken in isolation, but reflect an encouraging total context in which children are valued by the entire society and culture, as enabling the survival and power of a particular people.

Since the eclipse of Darwinism after 1945 and of communism after 1989, few European countries have really attempted to raise their fertility rates. Today, serious efforts are being made in more and more countries swept by “national-populist” revolutions: namely Hungary, Poland, and most recently Italy. Hungary is the country which has undergone the most profound and lasting of these revolutions since Prime Minister Viktor Orbán came to power in 2010. I would like to go over Hungary’s various natalist policies and consider their degree of success.

Lyman Stone of the Institute for Family Studies has written an impressively comprehensive account of Hungary’s demographic policies and evolution. In it he points out that Orbán has organized a political and indeed constitutional refounding in Hungary centered on the family and descendance:

[I] n 2011, Hungary adopted a new, and extremely controversial, constitution. Criticized by many international organizations as consolidating too much power around the ruling party, the document was Hungary’s first democratically produced framework for governing. It includes statements such as, “We trust in a jointly-shaped future and the commitment of younger generations. We believe that our children and grandchildren will make Hungary great again,” and, “We hold that the family and the nation constitute the principal framework for our coexistence,” and “We bear responsibility for our descendants.” It also includes strong language committing the country to historic national heritage, Christian identity, and community values. Moreover, Article L of the constitution, which, again, is the basis of Hungarian government today, says,

Hungary shall protect the institution of marriage as the union of a man and a woman… and the family as the basis of the nation’s survival. Hungary shall encourage the commitment to have children. The protection of families shall be regulated by a cardinal Act.

Orbán’s Hungary then has to some extent rejected a purely individualist conception of democracy, which sees human beings only as fleeting and interchangeable atoms, to a notion of the citizen as incorporated in a particular family, a particular nation, and a particular chain of generations. In doing so, Orbán has recognized basic biological realities and moved towards what he calls an “illiberal democracy.”

Personally, I prefer the term “communitarian democracy.” But in any event, the Hungarians have constitutionally founded their state on the basic Aristotelian principle of community: that one can only consider individual well-being starting from the well-being of the whole, of the community of which he is necessarily a part, and which will outlive him.

Since 2011, Hungary has adopted a wide array of measures to boost fertility and support families. Stone writes:

First of all, in 2011 and 2012, Hungary changed the structure of their tax exemptions for children, providing new deductions that saved families between $400 and $1,500 on their tax bill per child, depending on how many kids they have. A similarly-generous deduction in the U.S., given our higher incomes and our different tax rates, would mean the introduction of a between $4,000 and $16,000 per-child tax deduction.

Previous research by academics suggests that this increased tax exemption for kids probably did boost birth rates. They estimate that the policy change caused between 6,000 and 18,000 more births from 2011 to 2013.

Stone notes that support to families has reach an unprecedented level with the introduction of a new family-housing subsidy in 2015:

In 2015, the government of Hungary announced a major new policy: families would be given generous subsidies to buy or build new homes, and the subsidies would scale up based on their marital status and the number of children they had. This “Family Housing Allowance Program,” or CSOK (the abbreviation of the program’s Hungarian name), gives a maximum benefit to married couples with three or more children, equivalent to a $36,000 grant to buy a new home, alongside a major value-added tax deduction for each home, and a capped-interest loan for part of the home value. These interest and tax benefits are probably worth around another $15,000 to $50,000 per family, depending on the house they buy and their likely loan terms. In other words, for a married couple buying a new house with at least three kids, the value of their total payout could run anywhere from $50,000 to $80,000. Meanwhile, for a couple with just two kids, the payout could be from around $18,000 to $35,000. In other words, that extra kid earns the family somewhere between $15,000 and $62,000 extra dollars. Given that the average salary in Hungary is only around $11,000 to $15,000 per year, an equivalently-impactful subsidy for Americans, based on our higher incomes, would need to amount to somewhere between $40,000 and $250,000.

Imagine the U.S. government offered a $200,000 payout to have a third child. Do you think some people would be more likely to have that extra child? My guess is that they definitely would. I’ve written in the past that financial incentives for childbearing tend to be very expensive compared to the modest number of births they actually induce: most financial incentives are not highly effective at promoting sustainable fertility increases.

. . . [N]one of the policies I reviewed for the U.S. quite approach the magnitude suggested here: the very largest, most bold proposal for the U.S. that I’ve ever seen would be at the lower-end of the range for a Hungary-style proposal. No American policymaker has ever proposed something remotely as generous as what Viktor Orban’s Fidesz party has recently done for Hungary’s families and children. I said a similar thing in a previous piece about Poland’s right-wing populist government, which virtually ended child poverty through their generous family-support policies. Europe’s populists have babies on their mind.

The sheer scale of these programs is impressive indeed. Besides their electoral benefits (voters do love “gibs”), this is clearly an indicator that Orbán’s government is seriously and sincerely motivated to reverse Europe’s demographic decline.

This begs the question: are Hungary’s pro-natal programs working? So far, despite massive incentives, the effect has been only moderately positive. According to Eurostat, the Hungarian fertility rate fell to 1.25 in 2012 (the lowest in the EU) and has since risen to 1.53 as of 2016 (close to the, insufficient, EU average). A 22.4% increase is quite significant. Stone provides the following graphs showing an increase in fertility at various age levels (significant as the Hungarian population is aging):

There is no immediate correlation between the various policies adopted in 2011 and 2015 and the fertility rate, although one should note that fertility trends tend to change over longer periods of time and depend on other extraneous factors, such as the economic situation and cultural climate. Furthermore, Stone observes: “Hungary’s policy changes, at least through 2013 (the most recent data available), did not result in rising fertility ideals.”

The Hungarian government argues however that they had made major progress in restoring families, namely with a marked increase in marriages and decline in divorces and abortions:

In recent years, finding the proper response to Europe’s demographic decline has become one of the biggest sources of disagreement between European and Hungarian politics. While Brussels bureaucrats and the European liberal, pro-migration mainstream see immigration as the necessary and unavoidable solution, the Hungarian government stands committed to the idea of increasing birth rate through more effective family support measures….

Since 2010, when Prime Minister Orbán’s government took office, Hungary’s demographic policy has shown real results: by 2017, abortion numbers had dropped by more than a third, from 40,449 to 28,500, divorces saw a marked decline (from 23,873 in 2010 to 18,600 in 2017), and the number of marriages had risen by some 42 percent.

On top of this, over the last seven years, 83,000 families have received home purchase subsidies, households have saved 1.9 billion HUF (6m EUR) on account of family tax preferences, and the number of places in crèches has increased by 50 percent.

And indeed this appears to have worked, whatever the reasons. As Stone points out:

[I] n Hungary, the rise in the age of first marriage, which has been so inexorable in other countries, has actually stalled out and perhaps started to fall. The country is not just experiencing a fertility spike; Hungary is winding back the clock on much of the fertility and family-structure transition that demographers have long considered inevitable.

Stone is bullish about Hungary’s prospects largely because stable marriage are a primary condition for the decision to have children. He concludes:

Hungary’s fertility rates are still extremely low: only about 1.5 children per woman. The government is spending huge amounts of money and will probably never reach replacement-rate with this strategy. However, Hungary is experiencing some fertility gains, probably at least partly as a result of a basket of policy changes including tax preferences, cash grants, loan subsidies, constitutional protections, and costly political signaling. But to the extent these policies are working, they are effective because they are not being used in isolation, but rather together as a whole concert of pro-natal policies and cultural nudges. And they are working because they induce marriage, not simply childbearing, and marriage helps boost long-run fertility, not just birth-timing.

Surely the restoration of marriage is a fundamental positive development. By holy matrimony, husband and wife live with and love one another in harmony, just as the individual and the family must learn to live with and love the wider society. Not for nothing did Saint John Chrysostom say: “The love of husband and wife is the force that welds society together.” And Homer (that’s the primordial Greek poet, not the overweight nincompoop dad Matt Groening has replaced “Homer” with in our mass consciousness): “There is nothing nobler, nothing lovelier than when man and wife keep house together with like heart and with like will. Their foes repine, their friends rejoice, but the truth of it all is with her and him.”[2]

This is therefore a good sign for the long term. Indeed, the Hungarian government is strengthening its efforts. Just now there is a national consultation under way asking Hungarian citizens what they think on various proposals to strengthen the family:

The questions relate to the introduction of full-time motherhood for women raising minimum four children, the two-thirds protection of grants provided for families raising children, and the provision of support for family members looking after sick children at home. . . .

The government is seeking to find out, inter alia, whether the people agree that the problem of Hungary’s declining population should not be remedied with immigration, but with more intensive family support measures; whether the people agree that the new family support programmes will continue to remain tied to employment; and whether young married couples should be given support with the initial phases of their independent married lives.

I note that the particular major of having family support be “tied to employment” helps to ensure that anti-social elements’ reproduction is not subsidized. I would wager this means these programs disproportionately benefit indigenous Hungarians, to the detriment of Gypsies.

The issue here is not distaste for or persecution of this or that minority, but whether Europeans will even retain their homelands in the twenty-first century. As Orbán recently noted in a remarkable speech – which will hopefully not be studied by future historians as one of those “prescient but ignored” historical document – globalist elites are “slowly but surely turning indigenous Europeans into a minority” in their own countries.

The Hungarians are putting their demographic struggle in a wider European context. The government says: “The upcoming national consultation seeks citizen input on the foundations of a powerful family support scheme, hoping to send a straightforward message that Europe cannot be revived without strengthening families.” Let’s hope the rest of Europe is listening. Whatever the results of these particular Hungarian programs, I have no doubt that our demographic renewal cannot occur without two things:

  1. Experimentation of various programs and methods across Europe in our various nation-states.
  2. A general European cultural revolution whereby we all lastingly come to recognize the importance of the family and of biological reality.

These things take time. By way of comparison, I observe that it took many decades for Israel’s pro-natalist policies to bear fruit, recently overtaking Arab fertility, a remarkable achievement.

Europeans then have their work cut out for them, the work of a century at least. In the meantime, God bless the Hungarians!

Notes



[1] Ezra Pound, “The Serious Artist,” The Egoist, 1913.



[2] Homer (trans. G. S. Kirk), Odyssey (Oxford: Oxford University Press, 1980), 6.121-200.

 
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  1. Anon[351] • Disclaimer says: • Website

    Anyone with an understanding of the realities of heredity and ethnicity knows, as the saying goes, that “demography is destiny.”

    Jews broke the mold. They are the 2% that rules over the 8%.

    Also, white minorities still rule Latin America. But rich Latin whites don’t seem to care for ordinary Latin whites.

  2. Anon[351] • Disclaimer says: • Website

    ancient Greeks went furthest in turning the religiously-inspired imperative of reproduction into a self-conscious and rational biopolitics.

    But the Spartans failed to reproduce.

  3. Anon[351] • Disclaimer says:

    Only a few modern countries, it seems to me, have been successful in raising or maintaining fertility: these include Fascist Italy, the Third Reich, and Israel.

    Baby Boom America post 1945.

    Japan had boom after 45 too but then…

    • Replies: @Verymuchalive
  4. families would be given generous subsidies to buy or build new homes, and the subsidies would scale up based on their marital status and the number of children they had

    Germany tried something similar in the 1930s. On page 95 of Tell the Truth and Shame the Devil, Gerard Menuhin writes:

    ‘[Hitler’s] buildings were by no means always monumental, but included housing projects for workers. Newly-wed couples with children received generous loans with 10-year repayment conditions, so that they could buy their own house with garden or a large flat. At the birth of a child a quarter of the loan was forgiven. If they had four children, repayment was entirely canceled.’

    • Replies: @Verymuchalive
  5. @Anon

    Japan was the first industrialised country to legalise abortion – in 1948.

    • Replies: @George Hamilton
  6. @Johnny Rottenborough

    Well said, Johnny. It is good that we have websites like this where you can say this. Unlike The Blogmire, where I often see you comment. But, there again, Mr Slane runs a fairly high profile business, as well as being an Evangelical Church Elder. There are obvious constraints on what he can say. I understand that. Rather like Pat Buchanan.
    Like Orban, Slane is married and a father, not of five, but six. The future of white people depends on lots of people like them. They are doing their duty.

    • Agree: RadicalCenter
  7. @Verymuchalive

    Verymuchalive—Many thanks for the background on Rob Slane. Of the constraints on him, I knew only of the Christian angle, which understandably precludes any mention of the Jewish Question, except to rubbish it. I tried for years to explain the JQ to the Christians who frequent the Archbishop Cranmer blog, with precious little success.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  8. I support pro-natalism measures and social conservative family policy.

    That said, I don’t think Hungary has been particularly successful. Sure, TFR increased from 1.25 in 2010 to 1.50 by 2017, but TFR has generally been rising throughout Eastern Europe, and some countries have been more successful during this period – notably, Russia (until 2016); and especially Czechia, which went from 1.14 in 2000, to 1.49 in 2000 and a further 1.67 by 2017).

    Indeed, speaking of Czechia, it is rather curious and counter right wing narrative that a country with one of Europe’s higher rates of out of wedlock births, and its highest atheism rate, is also now (I believe) the E. European country with the highest TFR.

    It looks like there are critical other factors involved.

  9. Blubb says:

    There is another aspect: practical help.

    The Islamists in Europe do it like this: you’re a Muslim woman struggling to look after your kids? The Islamists send you a few young girls round that help with the kids and the household, so you get a breather.

    Incidentally, they got that idea from the Hitler youth. It is immensely community building, and would, I think, do more for fertility than money, simply because it addresses feelings rather than the bottom line. Feeling valued, feeling like you do something good, feeling like you are doing the right thing rather than being shamed for your toddler having a tantrum or because you dare to overpopulate the planet.

    • Agree: Alfred
    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  10. Cyrano says:

    To paraphrase one of my favorite lines from Shawshank Redemption: Get busy procreating, or get busy dying (out).

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  11. White irrational trash having kids [''news'']… to keep destroying environment*

  12. @Anatoly Karlin

    This is a complicated thing, Anatoly. Somehow Czechia displays quite liberal and quite conservative cultural traits at the same time. Spanking children still allowed or at least was the last one to ban AFAIK, there is EU skepticism, there is a healthy skepticism of socialist welfare, Vaclav Klaus’ thinking was coming from that root, climate skepticism, a surprisingly pro-gun attitude, and so on. Gender roles are fairly traditional – the idea is that mothers should stay at home with children until about 3 years old and the government generally supports this financially instead of getting them back into work (through offering daycare).

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  13. Tulip says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Maybe Czech women are more inspiring than Hungarian women?

    • Replies: @hunor
  14. @Cyrano

    Yes. There is no substitute for having and raising our own families and sustaining a steady increase in our people’s population — militarily, socially, politically.

  15. @TheDividualist

    Staying home till the children are THREE is now “fairly traditional”? Three years old? Very sad.

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
    , @LH
  16. TG says:

    Be very careful. Historically when the rich decide that the masses aren’t having ‘enough’ babies to suite them, and they take means to force population growth upwards – either by encouraging high fertility rates, or importing the excess population from the third world – the result has not been good for the average person, and often not good for the power of the state either.

    Consider recently Syria. Not that long ago, the Syrian government demanded that people have more babies, they outlawed the sale and possession of contraceptives, they got the population to double every 18 years.. and then they ran out of fresh water and things fell apart.

    The notion that high fertility rates automatically translate into economic and military power is simply false. The ancient Romans had a low fertility rate, and that didn’t stop them from being the major power in that part of the world for centuries. The rich eventually cancelled out low Roman fertility rates by importing massive numbers of barbarians – hey how did that work out for Rome anyhow?

    In the great depression, the American fertility rate fell to very low levels, and immigration was shut off. In China at the same time, people continued to have more children than they could afford to support. When WWII came, which nation was stronger?

    More recently, when Mao took power in China, he initially demanded the everyone have six kids as their patriotic duty – “strength through numbers” – and the resulting poverty nearly tore the country apart. In desperation the communists reversed course and moved to limit population growth (which would never have been necessary if they had not first moved to massively increase it) – and China is now looking to perhaps become the next major power in the world. Meanwhile high-fertility rate countries like India and Bangladesh and Pakistan remain firmly mired in the 9th century, and it will be a major achievement if they can simply avoid utter collapse.

    Consider the Wolf. It is not a domestic animal, it does not breed freely. Typically only the dominant pair in a pack breed. Until humans came along, the wolf was the most widespread land predator – only tigers could really outcompete them, and then only in limited ranges. That’s because a limited number of healthy, well-fed and strong wolves would appear to be more effective than a larger number of malnourished and weak wolves. And to a great extent, so too for human societies.

    All other things being equal, God is on the side of the bigger battalions. But all things are not always equal, and when people have more children than they can afford to support, this leads to crushing poverty and, all too frequently, societal instability and weakness.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  17. g2k says:

    Those subsidies are absolutely huge if given upfront. When I was in Debrecen, their second city, about ten months ago I peeked in at a few estate agents’displays and a pre-commie house (not an apartment) could be had on the outskirts if the city for about €45000.

    Their rate of emigration doesn’t seem all that high. Without exception, Hungarians I’ve known in the UK have been elites (otoh maybe this isn’t so good).

  18. @TG

    Not that long ago, the Syrian government demanded that people have more babies, they outlawed the sale and possession of contraceptives, they got the population to double every 18 years.. and then they ran out of fresh water and things fell apart.

    The developed countries are not Syria and will not fall apart because of a youth bulge. Instead, even a middle Power such as France (assuming it’s not too loaded in favor of their Muslims) will become a US-scale superpower after a century of 4 children per woman fertility rates.

    The rich eventually cancelled out low Roman fertility rates by importing massive numbers of barbarians – hey how did that work out for Rome anyhow?

    Not very well, which is a reason why mass immigration shouldn’t be allowed (as almost everyone on this website agrees anyway).

    More recently, when Mao took power in China, he initially demanded the everyone have six kids as their patriotic duty – “strength through numbers” – and the resulting poverty nearly tore the country apart.

    China was poor because it was run by Maoists, not because they were having a lot of children (something typical of almost all pre-industrial societies).

    Meanwhile high-fertility rate countries like India and Bangladesh and Pakistan remain firmly mired in the 9th century, and it will be a major achievement if they can simply avoid utter collapse.

    India and Bangladesh have both drastically reduced their fertility rates, so has Pakistan though to a lesser extent.
    You are correct that they will not be as successful as China anytime soon but that’s not on account of their demographics but the fact that their people are much dumber than Chinese.

    • Agree: RadicalCenter
    • Replies: @TG
    , @Tiny
  19. The guy behind the Archbishop Cranmer website is a one-time Conservative Parliamentary Candidate and traditionalist Anglican. He didn’t seem to realise that the Tories are CINO and have dumped Christianity and traditional values out the window. As you have said yourself: don’t vote for the establishment parties. They are in favour of mass 3rd World immigration. They want to replace the likes of you and me. They want to destroy traditional values.
    Slane is much different. His “Fab Sites” include The Duran and the Consortium News, neither supporters of Israel or the Jewish Lobby. He has had articles published in the Jew-aware Russia Insider, along with Grand Master Ron. Is he winking at us ? I very much think so. Rather like Ann Coulter in the period before she started appearing in Vdare.
    I know quite a few indigenous British Evangelical Christians. They are not like some of the dimwits who claim to be Evangelicals in the US. They know that Zionists are not their friends. They are very much aware of the threat that Islam poses for Christians. They are opposed to 3rd World immigration. In other words, they hold views close to those of Pastor Chuck Baldwin of Vdare fame.
    Rob Slane may not be the British Chuck Baldwin. However, his views are are very much nearer to Baldwin’s than the Dispensationalist poltroons that taint Evangelical America.
    Memo to Grand Master Ron: Pastor Baldwin seems to be at a loose end since he left Florida for Montana some years ago and left Vdare at the same time. I saw an article of his in Russia Insider a few weeks ago and thought: It should have been in UR. Any chance ?

  20. TG says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    India and Bangladesh etc. have not drastically reduced their fertility rate – not really. The issue there seems to be that chronic malnutrition is making it impossible for women to conceive and bring to term large numbers of children no matter how hard they try. In other words, these countries are examples of the Malthusian apocalypse – which is not massive famine, it’s slow grinding poverty. This is not the same thing as people voluntarily limiting their family size to one that they can support.

    Again, when the great depression hit, Americans had few children because they were worried about being able to support them. The fertility rate rebounded later on when times got better – which is how all prosperous societies operate, being appropriate for current circumstances. So anyhow, when WWII hit, America didn’t have a massive population, not compared to its resources. And it became the greatest industrial and military power the world had ever seen. Meanwhile in China – which was not run by communists at that time, thank you very much – sustained high fertility rates had driven the population into a state of chronic misery, and it made the society capital-starved and corrupt and weak.

    While all healthy societies should be pro-family, breeding like rodents is simply NOT a guaranteed path to either prosperity or national power. You have to consider available resources and capital etc. And ideally, simply encourage people to have children but also to make sure they can support them, and let them decide without the dead hand of a government elite deciding how many children people ‘should’ have.

    Do you really trust the same elites that gave us the Iraq war, or the Afghanistan war, or the destruction of Libya, or NAFTA, or the deregulation of the banks that led to the 2008 collapse and ongoing bailouts of tens of trillions of dollars… you really want these same people to decide how many children people should have? Really?

    We don’t need governments to limit population growth. We need governments to stop mindlessly promoting population growth.

    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
    , @KenH
  21. Tyrion 2 says:
    @TG

    Lol. You think India’s TFR has fallen because of mass malnutrition? You’re hilarious.

    Weird then that States that are more developed, have a higher per-capita income and better access to healthcare have a lower total fertility rate.

    https://scroll.in/article/813651/socio-economic-factors-not-religion-influence-indias-fertility-rate-and-population-growth

    Weird also that malnutrition correlates so well with being rich:

    Survey information showed that families in the lower wealth quintiles have more children than richer families. For instance, in Bihar, women in the lowest wealth quintile have a total fertility rate of 5.08, while women in the highest quintile have a total fertility rate of 2.12. The same holds true for a richer state, like Maharashtra, where the lowest wealth quintile has a total fertility rate of 2.78, compared to the richest wealth quintile with a total fertility rate of 1.74.

  22. Antiwar7 says:

    such as the Mormons and Orthodox Jews, will inherit the Earth

    And the Amish.

    That would be an interesting 3 superpower world.

  23. Skeptikal says:
    @RadicalCenter

    Well, only one child at a time can be three (except for twins).
    So in the case of an only child, yes, it would be quite normal and developmentally reasonable for a child to start attending a daycare center at the age of three.
    If there is more than one child, the three-year-old will get older while the next one(s) is/are younger than three. And in most cases there is more than one child in a family and they are born a few years apart. So the mother wouuld be likely to stay at home becauase of the younger child. But might nonetheless start sending the oldest to daycare for the child’s social development.

  24. @Skeptikal

    Fair point, though we shouldn’t overestimate how many mothers can afford daycare. Also, there should be other ways to socialize the child besides daycare, such as simply playing with other children the same age in the neighborhood, kids met through church, etc.

    Also, for families who can afford it, why shouldn’t the mother stay home well after the youngest is “old enough for daycare” if she wants to? Daycare should not be considered something broadly necessary or assumed.

  25. Lot says:

    Good article bringing good news, thanks.

    I get tired of the black pills saying natalist policies don’t work. In the West they are usually tiny compared to the cost of raising a child. Hungary’s is much better but still too small outside of the “third kid” housing bonus. But even then, not every couple who might want a third kid needs a house. They might be living in Grama’s large paid off house.

    The best natalist policies are discouraging liberal arts college education as expected for middle class women and giant exemptions from taxes for large families.

    • Replies: @AnotherDad
  26. It simply cannot work in the long term.

    There are real economic forces at work in fertility drops in advanced states.

    Government policies, however well-intended, cannot alter them.

    Government would have to assume a huge financial burden even to seriously try.

    Readers might enjoy this explanation:

    https://chuckmanwordsincomments.wordpress.com/2018/10/09/john-chuckman-comment-putins-charming-custom-of-having-very-large-families-to-dinner-but-the-inevitability-of-population-decline-in-advancing-nations/

  27. hunor says:
    @Santoculto

    You right, why on gods earth should we have white irrational trash?
    We can have a planet full of brothers dribbling with basketball to a tune of
    artistic rap music . “yu now wat im cayin dog” How becoming !

  28. hunor says:
    @Tulip

    Czech women shaped like cows , Hungarian women has nice figures.
    It is not an opinion it is an observation.

    • Replies: @LondonBob
  29. dvorak says:

    whether young married couples should be given support with the initial phases of their independent married lives.

    This can be achieved in a way that reduces spending: Reserve ALL university subsidies only for married men and married women. Singles pay full freight, which may need to be newly calculated for previously free universities.

    Imagine the screams of pain from the single women, denied their government subsidy to slut it up for 5+ years.

    And fertility is most potent in one’s twenties. Making median marriage age one year earlier or later has large effects on fertility.

  30. dvorak says:
    @JOHN CHUCKMAN

    Government would have to assume a huge financial burden even to seriously try.

    As large a burden as the one that the government/economy of Japan bears to subsidize industry, to pour concrete from the northern tip of Honshu to the southern, then starting again at the northern tip?

    What would the analysis look like if all industrial subsidies were diverted to pro-natalism (which will itself lead to plenty of economic growth if the children are high IQ, as in Japan).

  31. Jordi says:

    Interesting.

    The only missing measure that would help would be a review of divorce laws, in order to reduce divorce rates.

    Otherwise, Hungary is on the ascendant path while the rest of Europe declines.

  32. utu says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    It looks like there are critical other factors involved.

    Indeed Czechia is an interesting case. I think it might be higher national self esteem and their sense of politcal/geographic security and lack of existential angst which cannot be said about Poles or Hungarians. Look how Czechs let the Slovaks go: “Just go you fools. Good riddance.” They are happy with themselves. They unlike Poles or Hungarian do not have delusions of grandeur about their past or their future. Just leave them alone.

    • Replies: @Yevardian
  33. A true eugenics will make Orban types a piece of museum.

  34. ” hoping to send a straightforward message that Europe cannot be revived without strengthening families.” Let’s hope the rest of Europe is listening. Whatever the results of these particular Hungarian programs, I have no doubt that our demographic renewal cannot occur without two things: ”

    What on earth is this rivival of Europe ?
    This whole planet is overpopulated, who knows countries as Germany and the Netherlands knows what I mean.
    The Netherlands more and more resembles Los Angelos, especially in the west, leaving one built area, a municipality, one enters the next.

    I first was in LA in 1978, between LA and San Diego it was about an hour’s drive.
    Now, that is what LA residents told me in 2001, I was visiting Yellowstone, noopen space any more between the two cities.

    On top of all this, we see that ever more simple work is disappearing.
    The logical conclusion seems to me that populations should shrink.
    For who can read German, and is interested in the confusion all this causes, I provide a link.
    Despite less and less simple work those in Germany living on welfare, so is the official idea, should work.
    Anyone, I suppose, understands that if one lives on welfare one is not highly educated or has been trained for work.
    On German tv one could see how German employers in the meantime see the immigrants, translated ‘nobody can convince me that these people are the highly skilled workers we need’.

    Yet economists, and people skilled in demographics, just seem to see their statistical realities, realities with no relation to reality.
    Hardly anyone of the Eritreans who came to the Netherlands, now since some ten years, work.

    Back to Hungary, that a government that sees how the population goes back in numbers, plus that the skilled leave, does something, I can understand.

    But ‘revival of Europe’, nonsense, in my opinion.
    Europe, despite EU propaganda, is just a geographical area with 28 or so different peoples with different languages and cultures.
    The threat to countries as Hungary is mainly the EU.
    And the other way round, not for nothing the EU ruling class is trying to take away Hungary’s right to vote on EU matters

    https://kenfm.de/tagesdosis-19-11-2018-politiker-fordern-arbeitszwang-fuer-wirtschaftswachstum/

    • Replies: @Che Guava
  35. LondonBob says:
    @hunor

    Apparently being posted to Czechoslovakia was most desirable for Red Army soldiers as they had the best looking women.

    • Replies: @awry
    , @Che Guava
  36. @Anatoly Karlin

    Hope in the future & the will to live both as individuals & a collective entity, plus the pride in one’s national culture?

    And avoidance of excesses….

    As with Israelis, lack of otherworldliness seem to be conductive to higher birth rate.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  37. I suspect that this article was intended to be anti-EU propaganda, but it doesn’t come accross as that. It is a plea in favour of the classic European nation-state, based on ethnicity. The whole point of the EU is to allow the myriad of samll European nations to keep their identity without their smallness causing them to be conquered by their larger neighbours. It allows them to establish the sovereign nation-state they aspire to and that we Europeans consider as a basic right, sparing them the problems of places like Ukraine, which is having to defend that right from Russian revisionists. The idea that the EU is hostile to the nation-state is essentially US hegemonist propaganda. The European concept of the nation-state is inapplicable outside Europe, whether to Israel, a settler-based colonial “replacement” project, or the melting pot concept that underlies the US and the other post-colonial entities.

    • Replies: @Razor
  38. KenH says:
    @TG

    The third world now just sends their excess population to Europe and N. America and expects us to take them as immigrants or barring that, as “refugees”. The gigantic welfare state of the USA and the generous social safety nets of the U.K, Scandinavian and European nations are major attractants to third worlders. This wouldn’t be a problem if we had the will to keep the third world out but doing so would be “racist” and “white supremacist”, so we allow them in en masse.

    We don’t need governments to limit population growth. We need governments to stop mindlessly promoting population growth.

    The critical distinction is that most European nations and America are suffering from below replacement fertility rates and on top of that have aging populations. It seems the only European nation promoting “mindless” population growth is Hungary. Regardless, Western nations need to start promoting pro-natal policies or by the close of the century Europeans will be largely extinct or facing genocide as small, powerless minorities in nations where they once constituted super majorities.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  39. Anonymous[263] • Disclaimer says:
    @Johnny Rottenborough

    Christians are Jew-worshipers.

    John 4:22 “We worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews.”

    That settles the JQ for them.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  40. Anonymous[285] • Disclaimer says:
    @Verymuchalive

    At least you can differentiate between “Christianity and traditional values,” since they’re quite different.

    • Tradition: Blood and soil.
    • Christian: “Hate” your own blood and “forsake” your own soil. (Luke 14:26, Matthew 19:27-30)

    Which do you prefer?

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    , @Avery
  41. bispora says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    And also take into account the much lower gypsy population in Czechia: approx 300 thousand (~3%) versus one million in Hungary (~10%). According to the very few reports on gypsy fertility, theTFR of Hungarian gypsies is about 3.0-3.3. So the actual “magyar” TFR is around 1,25 nowadays…
    But it is significantly higher than the approximated 1.0 TFR in 2012. As Spengler wrote at that time:

    “Hungarians are disappearing faster than any other nationality. Ethnic Hungarians, according to unpublished government data, have a fertility rate of 0.83 — fewer than one child per woman, after the high birth rate of the local Roma population is excluded. If the Roma are included, the fertility rate is just 1.28.”

    https://pjmedia.com/spengler/2012/7/12/hungarian-suicide-song-redux/

  42. @Verymuchalive

    With all the mixed births happening, they had no alternatives. They didn’t want mixed race kids in Japan which the Japanese would never accept and the US probably wasn’t all that keen on bringing in mixed-race babies either. Some were sent to Brazil but how long would that be an option.

    • Replies: @Sean
    , @Z-man
  43. Sean says:
    @George Hamilton

    http://www.fingleton.net/848/

    Already in former times, when Japan’s population was much lower than it is today, Japanese leaders acted to correct a perceived overpopulation problem. Whereas in the 1930s they resorted to foreign conquest to feed an exploding population, after World War II they moved directly to slash the birthrate, not least via the Eugenic Protection Act of 1948. Under this law Japan became one of the first countries to legalize abortion, and the abortion rate duly rose more than four-fold in the next six years. (Source: Encyclopaedia Britannica, 1970.) This law, which for obvious reasons the authorities avoided publicizing in the West, also made sterilization and other forms of birth control universally available and instituted a domestic public relations programme to make larger families unfashionable.

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/due-to-a-lack-of-mass-immigration-japan-is-plagued-by-a-rising-standard-of-living/

    https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2018/04/09/1523246400000/Japan-s-economic-miracle/


    I wondered why people seemed so well off when nominal GDP had not budged for 20 years. Deflation and low population growth were part of the answer. That meant real per capita income was higher than the nominal number suggested. But the quality of services and technology also made a difference to living standards

    Immigration is not the answer, and neither is unending population growth. A policy that supports families, raises wages, and gives the native population a skills upgrade seems best to me. Too much emphasis on the family or business harms the ability of the nation state to fulfill its ultimate reason for existence, which is to survive over-against other nation states.

    It should be remembered that there are not going to be all that many new jobs created to replace the ones AI is going take, and masses of young people without prospects in a generation would be bad news. Hungary has it about right.

    • Replies: @Miro23
  44. @JOHN CHUCKMAN

    You are right that it might take a massive set of financial incentives to induce certain of our people to have more children. But what could be more important? We have the resources, it’s just that our government has squandered them on everything else.

    We have borrowed and spent trillions of dollars on pointless wars and occupations. Why not try spending, annually, one tenth that amount annually on a much increased child tax credit (at least $6,000 per child, three times the 2019 credit amount, and indexed for inflation).

    We currently spend great sums subsidizing people who have children with no intention of ever marrying, with no job and no real job prospects, with glaringly deficient formal education and job training, and with no apparent work ethic. People who are on taxpayer subsidies for food, medical insurance and care, schooling (more like warehousing), from most of the time from birth till death.

    Very large, NON-“refundable” child tax credits are advisable because they facilitate bigger families only for people who earn enough to pay that amount in fed income tax.

    Obviously there are many intelligent and/or hardworking people who don’t earn enough to pay fed income tax — which could include some of us in a bad year. But there’s a correlation between crossing that net taxpayer threshold and displaying intelligence, productivity, and a consistent work ethic, all things we need more of.

    It’s the broad middle to somewhat upper-income earners we want to subsidize to have FAR more children than they are now. We shouldn’t subsidize those who don’t earn enough to pay fed income tax, nor those who are very high income or very high net worth and don’t need the boost.

    This huge NON-“refundable” child tax credit would be facially race-neutral, though presumably it could lead to larger families for predominantly white (including Hispanic whites) and Asian families in the USA due to average incomes, average measurable intelligence, and cultural values / norms re hard work.

  45. Durruti says:

    Minority of One

    There is a load of Crap from Durocher (manager of the Dodgers -baseball team?), and many of the commenters.

    This terribly treated Planet is overcrowded, and being polluted – to its death. It cannot support 7+ Billions of inhumans. We need good – moral – fun loving humans, who are able to function within a healthy eco system, of the only planet we have.

    There is only 1 race (I often name it – the Inhuman Race).

    The mass migrations of Africans to Europe is one by product of imperialism. These migrations are also spurred on by the Zionist land thieves, who continue to murder and butcher for an eretz (greater), israel. One need not capitalize a word that denotes a racist imperialist crime. Moving Arabs (true Semites), out of their homelands is an old Zionist goal.

    I dedicate this list of my wishes – to Dieudonné, Alain Soral, and Mark Twain.

    1. Female children should be favored.

    2. Governments should support male homosexuality (more women for me-do the math).

    3. One humorous article a week (at least) must be featured at UNZ.

    4. Translate Dieudonné & Alain Soral and me, and place on UNZ.

    5. Discuss excellence of Japanese Porn – on Buses & Trains.

    6. Come on! Help me out here! Complete this list.

    God bless!

    Restore Our Republic!

    • LOL: WHAT
  46. @Blubb

    You make an excellent point. People are heavily influenced by what they perceive to be prevailing norms and expectations. Our media glorifies and lauds young men (and now BOYS) for becoming sodomites or mutilating their bodies to pretend to be women, instead of becoming husbands and fathers.

    We need to stop pretending that homosexuality is no big deal. Challenge people when they make statements supporting this perversion or bashing “homophobes” (or even more absurdly “transphobes”). This can be awkward, but it has to happen. The survival of our nation, of our people and kindred peoples, rests in part on delegitimizing sexual perversion, homosexuality, and straight out mental illness (transgenderism).

    And putting normal manhood, womanhood, loyal marriage, and devoted parenthood back on a pedestal as our ideals.

    We go out of our way to praise and encourage other parents — strangers included — especially parents with numerous children, and I know from people doing it for us that it feels great and it does help. It’s also good for the anti-family misfits to hear and see how normal men act and talk, and to see that we are happy and proud of our sacrifice for our wives and children.

    And as always, money talks. Whenever you see a billboard or online ad depicting two “men” holding hands or anything else suggesting homosexuality, call and email the company and politely but forcefully complain. (One particularly sickening example was a bank ad, Bank of America, on bus stops here in LA, showing a man lying all cuddly on top of his “boyfriend” on the couch, with their cat nearby. Our very young children saw it all the time, which is what the scumbags want. Oir eldest daughter said, “that man is acting like a lady.”). And stop doing business with that company if you’re doing business with them. It appears that few normal people, Christian or otherwise, are doing this in the USA.

  47. @Santoculto

    Hace you thought this through even for a minute? If all white folks stopped having kids entirely, the world population would continue to explode and humanity would continue to overuse, deplete, and over-pollute our land, air, and water.

    So you’re effectively calling for a horribly crowded, dirty, unhealthy world without white and part-white people, rather than one with us. Doesn’t make sense.

    Whites and more-intelligent, civilized, hardworking people generally not having children while most others do, amounts to unilateral disarmament on a civilizational scale.

  48. anonymous[739] • Disclaimer says:

    I made a close friend on the internet who is a Brooklyn New York Orthodox Jewish guy. Our common bond was that we are both combat veterans of New York City 1985-92.

    I’ve learned the Orthodox Jewish dating, marriage customs – they are interesting and they work.

    Dating, marriage, procreation are not left up to the young people to decide everything based on their short term wants and desires.

    The custom is for the parents of a groom to be to approach the parents of the bride to be and basically propose a union of the families in the form of marriage of the son to the desired daughter.

    The father of the bride to be can reject the family of the groom to be – it’s more of a reflection of the family as opposed to the boy.

    If the father of the bride to be accepts the groom’s family, then the power pretty much shifts to the young bride to be.

    The young couple then goes on a series of dates (not sexual) and the bride to be can reject the guy, the guy pretty much is committed.

    But these dates don’t go on indefinitely and of course dating, marriage is strictly kept in the Orthodox Jewish community.

    This system works great and it’s not oppressive like Pakistani English families marrying off one of their daughters to some Pakistani Muslim guy from the mountain village where the marriage is a forced marriage, a blind marriage.

    But all readers should pretty much agree that the current American dating and marriage systems aren’t working.

    Unless you send your daughter to BYU or Liberty University, they aren’t going to come back with a healthy, handsome husband. Both my grandparents and my Mother went to Smith College way back in the day.

    Smith college now corrupts and destroys young women turns them in to bitter feminists, LGBT and almost all….

    Childless spinsters.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  49. Che Guava says:

    Good comment.

    The concrete-cement complex has ridiculous power, one of the several good things that P.M. Kan’s government did was to try to rein it in.

    Although you are wrong to single out Honshu, I once climbed Takachiho-no-mine, except for strong winds that made the climb and being on the peak more exciting, the weather was very fine.

    Looking to the north, very long range of view, the proportion of hills and small mountains in use as quarries (to make cement and concrete) or otherwise badly eroded was quite shocking, particularly from what is supposed to be one of the holiest mountains (I prayed there, though nominally Catholic, Catholicism in Japan allows some degree of syncretism, I suppose I over-step the bounds on such occasions, then again, not nearly as much as a western sodomite priest, or for that matter, Poop Francesco).

    Most specifically, Kan’s govt. called a moratorium on further extending the high-speed road system, full of useless flyovers to nowhere.

    Then he got the blame for the big earthquake, tidal wave, Fukushima disaster (as if he could have done anything about those things, what has been about Fukushima itself is a joke, although much contaminated soil has been ripped up and stored in vast mounds of black PVC garbage bags), his succesors were fools, made stupid policies, and handed power back to the ‘Liberal Democratic’ party.

    The party for which Kan was P.M. no longer exists, instead there are three separate parties, it is a joke.

    Excuse the long comment, when having the chance to escape from Tokyo, I like long slow-train rail trips, every time to pass the same place, more stupid felling of trees, more concrete crap in rivers, etc.

    As for population decline, our war-time govt.’s ’100 million under one house’ slogan was not the population of Japan, but the combined populations of the Korean peninsula, Taiwan, and Japan, since the post-war population increase was so fast to exceed 100 million and I am very much post-war born, I did not realize that until ten or so years ago.

    Pro-natal? High IQ? At the time of the rude drunk Perry’s arrival, the population was about 50 million. Sustainable. Depending on the domain lords, some places were better places to live than others. Several were miserable. Most people had marked dialects, so an internal outsider was easy to see.

    As for IQ, I live near a supposedly top univesity, i am sure that their eng., med., sci., ancient history scholars are good, have met and worked with some at times.

    Most of the students are near-morons there to party, they spend no time studying or even reading. The whole emphasis is on the extra-curricular.

    Most working-class or drifting-through-work class, and most of my colleagues, are far superior.

  50. anonymous[739] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    Do these J worshippers also worship Harvey Weinstein’s Hollywood? How about the hard core porn industry? Jeff Zucker’s CNN? Communism? Do they like, worship the Js on the US Supreme Court like Ruth Bader Ginzberg and Lesbian J Elena Kagan?

    Are these “Christians” (in name only) even middy concerned that Christians have been marginalized and basically cleansed from Jesus’ city of Jerusalem?

    Seems like they are CINO – Christian in Name Only.

    • Replies: @follyofwar
  51. awry says:
    @LondonBob

    Local women did not mingle much with Soviet soldiers at least not voluntarily. They were silently hated occupiers basically, it was a little different than being a US soldier in Western Europe. Czechs resented them because of the memory of 1968 and in case of Hungarians the memories of 1956 and the raping and pillaging of the Red Army in 1945. Soviet soldiers spent most of the time within the garrisons, officers brought their families if they were posted to Warsaw Pact countries, there were separate housing blocks for them. So relationships between Soviet soldiers and local women were rare (and such women were generally viewed as traitors) and were AFAIK discouraged by the Soviets themselves.

  52. @Antiwar7

    LOL, Antiwar :)

    To take your point seriously, more traditional / socially “conservative” religious white people seem to be the only white people in the USA and Canada who are having bigger families — or families at all. I don’t know enough about Europe in that regard to say, and there seem to be proportionally fewer religious whites in Europe anyway.

    Just anecdotally, almost every white American and Canadian of my acquaintance over the past few decades who is non-religious, politically left, or both, has had no children at all.

    Among my own siblings, one is an observant Christian and had three children, while the other is an agnostic who disdains religion and chose to have none. The latter is a particular loss for our family and society, given that she is creative, VERY hardworking, honest, patriotic, and probably the most intelligent among us overall. Truly sad and shortsighted.

    (Something similar had been happening in Israel, but I’ve recently read that non-Orthodox, more-secular jews in Israel have boosted their fertility rate decently above replacement level. Still, the ultra religious Jewish TFR in Israel is still higher than the remainder Jewish TFR there. If that persists, their society is headed towards Jewish Ultras and Muslim Arabs as the largest groups, with other Jews becoming a smaller and smaller percentage.)

    In short, Antiwar, we really are heading for an America where there aren’t many non-religious non-traditional whites left. Soon enough, the biggest groups nationwide could be Mexican and part-mexican, followed by religious or traditional whites and white/Asian mixes (like my children), then with non religious whites bringing up the rear (often all too literally) with the self-destructive and less-competent Africans and other, later-arriving groups.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
  53. Che Guava says:
    @jilles dykstra

    Jilles,

    I am in complete agreement, population is the problem. On the other hand, certain populations are far more responsible for driving the growth in moronic populations.

    Human settlement patterns are also terrible in many places.

    About 2,000 million humans would allow our harmonious co-existence with nature.

    However, the greediest, and the most sub-human, and the most bestial breeds of human seem intent on overwhelming the planet.

    I very much like your citations of written work, not having the space for so many books, am a little jealous.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  54. anonomy says:

    Well now you what happened to the early Hebrews and Jesus’ ancestors. People move in and take your place, make all kinds of claims about themselves, they learn the language and history and then start claiming they are you. I have more in common with early Hebrews than Jews, Muslims or Africans. Now you know what happened to lots of early civilizations. That’s why no one knows how to build it or live the same way as the builders of the pyramids for example. Well that’s my opinion and two cents.

  55. @Bardon Kaldian

    Your first two sentences hit the nail on the head, Bardon.

    Wondering, though, what you mean by lack of otherworldliness? Do you mean being realistic and caring about life on earth rather than too much focus on some supposed afterlife?

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
  56. Che Guava says:
    @LondonBob

    Awry’s reply is likely correct, at ieast post-1968, but you have that impression for a good reason, Czech cinema was the most sexually suggestive (and among other points of interest) of all Warsaw-pact places.

    People forget that there were real differences from state to state, including the polity, styles of cultural production, micro-economic handling, etc.

  57. @anonymous

    Couldn’t say it better myself, anonymous sage.

    FWIW, these childless spinsters often seem to know, or instinctively feel, that they have wasted their lives and failed to fulfill their natural role and source of true joy. They can be some of the nastiest man-haters around. They’re also among the least pleasant to us when they see our several small children, even when the kids are quiet and well-behaved and smile at them.

    I worked for such a woman, and she became angry and disgusted when I told her that my wife was pregnant with baby number two and then three, even though my work was and remained in excellent stead. Scowled, rolled her eyes, made sarcastic comments. You know, the kind of treatment that could get a MAN disciplined, humiliated, and fired. She actually asked why I couldn’t hire someone to take my wife to medical appointments or watch the other small kids while she went to them.

    No amount of cougarish hooking up with younger men who are just using them like meat can make them happy. No matter how many cool international vacations they take, how much they earn, how many hip wine bars and sushi places they visit with their fellow bitchy barren girlfriends, can ever hide the tragedy, stupidity, and un-naturalness of what these brainwashed women have done with their lives. To be fair, let’s include all the men who likewise waste their lives in selfish & sybaritic fashion, whether homosexual (let’s stop saying this propaganda word “gay”) or otherwise.

  58. @RadicalCenter

    BREEDER QUESTION

    What do ghetto blacks, Section 8 Orthodox Jews, Beaners and Trailer parks have in common.

    Lot’s of kids. Starting young.

    How does this conquer the world. Countries like Iceland and Japan have the least population and India and Africa have the most.

    Which countries are better.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  59. @Santoculto

    I remember when I was young quarreling with a guy from the Philippines in front of a group of other soldiers over some petty difference. After some words, he called me “White trash.” I was 20 years old and had never heard that term before. It was puzzling, but sounded so funny and weak an accusation I just laughed and called him a “cannibal.” I’m not sure if he knew what a cannibal was, but he began trying to fight me. I grabbed him in a headlock, but kept laughing while others pulled us apart because the whole argument was so foolish on his part. To this day the phrase sounds silly because, as everyone knows, there is no such thing as White trash.

  60. @Anonymous

    Here’s the honest truth. Sensible Christians simply ignore those passages and refuse to follow them. Yes, it’s doctrinally inconsistent and “convenient”, but there it is.

    Our church collected boxes of little toys and clothes items to be sent all over the world. We donated a little box, and I wish the children in other countries the best. But this kind of thing comports with those terrible passages you quoted, and it should stop.

    I have suggested to the pastor that they look into collecting toys, clothes, and money for the Christian Appalachian Project to actually help some of our own people.

  61. Avery says:
    @Anonymous

    I agree with [RadicalCenter #61] .

    I don’t know too many Christians who take the passage you quoted literally.
    Quite the opposite.
    Christians in Europe, in their day, fought to the death against Muslim invaders, for the love of their blood and their own soil.

    My ancestors, Armenians, were the first to adopt Christianity as a _state_ religion*.
    That did not stop them from fighting to the death, as best as they could, for their blood and soil against various invaders over centuries.

    Most recently (1988-1994), Armenians of Artsakh (aka Nagorno-Karabagh), deeply religious, fought fiercely and ejected foreign invaders from their native soil. Being Christian not only did not stop them, but gave them an extra boost. Their local religious leader, Archbishop Pargev, was on the frontlines with the local volunteers with an AK-47.

    I don’t see any Either-Or choice between tradition, one’s ethnos/blood & soil and Christianity. I see it as various components re-enforcing each other
    ______________
    * In 301AD by King King Trdat/Tiridates III. For better or worse. It was not all smooth sailing. Naturally there was resistance to the new things, and together with somewhat forcible (by the King) erasure of ancient Armenian demi-gods, much Armenian history and records of civilizational achievement were lost forever with the adoption of the new religion and God.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  62. That is a wonderful photograph at the top of this article. A happy man with a slightly mischievous look (as in: ha ha, look at all the kids we’ve had!) a relaxed, contented wife, and five healthy children ready to face the future.

    And what of that future? One fears that generation will have to be braver and stronger than ours, for they will increasingly be a minority on the Earth. The only homelands they will inherit will be those that have been successfully protected by men like their father.

    Americans would do well to look to the Orbans, the Hungarians, the Poles, and whoever else stands up for themselves and their Posterity.

    We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

    We are a family.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  63. JLK says:

    Unrestrained capitalism seems to have an adverse effect on the traditional means of population replacement…having babies.

    The mechanism appears to be the values spread by commercial media, which extols the joy of having the newest shiny automobile a lot more than that of having a large family.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  64. @Jeff Stryker

    My proposed policies, in other comments here, are not designed to encourage more reproduction by people who consistently do not earn enough to pay federal income tax. So your nasty comment about trailer parks — presumably aimed at poor white people — doesn’t apply.

    Moreover, your logic is lacking. The fact that some populations reproduce at a high rate and also have high incidence of chronic poverty, long-term unemployment, crime, and dysfunction, doesn’t mean that high fertility rates necessarily cause those problems always and everywhere: they don’t.

    It depends largely on the quality of the population (native i.e. genetic intelligence and potential, work ethic, cultural mores and expectations), the public policies of their society, and to some extent the availability of fertile agricultural land or valuable marketable natural resources.

    How was the USA when we were 85-90% European and had a consistently MUCH higher fertility rate? That was a better country, by most of our lights, than the current USA, and not inferior to Japan or Iceland as a place to live and raise a family.

    Amish and Mormon people have high fertility rates; are their communities in the USA and Canada dysfunctional, unsafe, uncivilized, or unpleasant places to live? We can find examples of higher-TFR and lower-TFR populations that are rich, poor, and everywhere in between.

    • Replies: @anonomy
    , @Jeff Stryker
  65. @Avery

    Perfect example, Avery.

    God bless the Armenians and help them in their neverending struggle to survive next to hostile Muslims. The Turks and their Turkic brethren (Azerbaijan etc.) will finish the job of genocide if they can.

    Numbers matter in creating “facts on the ground.” There is usually no substitute for ablebodied people, especially younger men, in defending a people, even with advanced military technology in the picture.

    And people are far more willing and able to bear hardship and risk death to defend their people when they have a fervent belief that their people and culture is worthwhile and valuable, and at the same time an unshakeable belief in something greater than themselves — God and his natural law.

    Having said that, can you please ask the young Armenian guys in Glendale (CA) not to drive like maniacs? ;)

    • Replies: @Avery
  66. @Buzz Mohawk

    YES. Whites need to stick together as a family as a matter of simple survival, given the numbers against us and the fact that our culture is actively stirring up hatred against us.

    It will also be wise to broadly construe who is part of “Western civilization” culturally and who is “white” genetically. Then ally as closely as possible with other peoples, here in the USA and abroad, who share substantial genetic and/or cultural features with us and are relatively more compatible with our way of life.

  67. @JLK

    Well said, JLK.

    As a counter-example of sound priorities, we have been driving a beat-up old vehicle for years and couldn’t care less. We spend our money instead on educating our children and preparing them for the increasingly hostile & dangerous country and world that awaits them. This means basic care and feeding, of course, plus foreign-language lessons, self-defense and in time firearms training, investing for college, etc.).

  68. @RadicalCenter

    Do you mean being realistic and caring about life on earth rather than too much focus on some supposed afterlife?

    Yes, that. Even, normative Judaism is, and especially modern- apart from Kabbalah- concerned primarily with this world, which can be seen from their everyday religious life- and contrary to the official theological doctrine- that lacks strong conviction on the afterlife. Confucianism is, in this respect, similar to Judaism.

    Zoroastrianism is, as far as I know, the only religion both thisworldly & otherworldly.

  69. @Che Guava

    My wife indeed complains about more and more books

  70. Z-man says:

    Good stock those Hungarians, we should import some here. Maybe I’ll get my son to marry a Hungarian girl. (Grin)

    • Agree: RadicalCenter
    • Replies: @Skeptikal
  71. Z-man says:
    @George Hamilton

    George is that you from ‘Dancing with the Stars’? Are you still doing KFC commercials?
    Have you visited with the lovely Dolores Hart lately? ‘Where The Boys Are’, one of my favorites.
    Only kidding around, couldn’t help myself. (Big grin)

  72. @KenH

    ” The critical distinction is that most European nations and America are suffering from below replacement fertility rates and on top of that have aging populations ”
    What suffering ?
    We suffer under mass immigration of people of whom employers in the Netherlands say ‘that one third is too stupid for the most stupid jobs’.
    On top of that, simple work disappears more and more.
    Even educated migrants, educated according to themselves, do not find jobs here.
    Happen to know a couple from the Ukraine, she claims to have been a nurse there, assisting in surgery.
    She’s unable to find a job here as a nurse, whatever kind of nurse.
    Already some ten or fifteen years ago it was proposed to solve the lack of nurses problem by migration of trained nurses from South Africa.
    The experiment was tried, a few hundred came.
    It was over in say two months.
    They did nothing that was not spelled out for them in advance.
    I’ve been in third world countries, other than in tourist resorts.
    The lack of knowledge of the most simple things flabbergasted me.
    Anyone here understands that overloading a lorry will lead to serious damage.
    Not so in India, lorries with broken axles or springs galore.

  73. anonomy says:
    @RadicalCenter

    What the Amish has is a belief in Jesus, and they don’t much like the Englisher, so they are rather protective of their own people, unlike our Congress, which hates us, whites,

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  74. Good luck to Orban. He has many faults, but the fact that he resists globalist elites, Washington politburo and its Brussels vassals destroying Europe, outweighs them all.

  75. @anonymous

    CINO is a good acronym. First I’d heard of it. Obviously, Christian Zionists (or Zionist Christians) are CINOS. Those people are sick-making useful idiots of Israel, and are one of the many things that have soured me on Christianity. I hope that Orban’s Hungary is not afflicted with such vile scum.

  76. @anonomy

    Look, neither Chinese nor Indians believe in Jesus, but this does not prevent them from having kids. In fact, if you look at the world, people who do not believe in Jesus procreate more than those who ostensibly do.

    • Replies: @anonomy
  77. The article didn’t mention it, but I had read that Orban is accepting (encouraging?) immigration of educated, hard-working European whites who are fleeing the third world shitholes that their countries have become. I’ve also read that quite a few Germans are leaving their dying country and are emigrating to Russia, with its vast open spaces. It is most interesting that so many former communist countries of Eastern Europe, hats off to Hungary and Poland, may be all that is saving Western Civilization from implosion.

    • Replies: @utu
  78. the subsidies will go some war towards increasing numbers but there is a problem of democracy deficit that must be addressed and solved in the interest of popular social control before we see the end of this.

    what this means is the end of capitalism and social control taken over by the people using popular forms of social organization that guarantees the popular interest will always find full expression. the people themselves must create these popular forms in response to general social need: whatever society needs to enhances it function.

    it is or must be the need that drives the democratic form that is created to meet the requirement and this new form can itself be change as society goes as it evolves democratically.

    the people must have no fear of minority social control which would end with the elimination fo capitalism. there would be no form, which necessarily must be an exploitative form.. that would exist, or could come into being.. that could bring another minority into power to exert its minority will on the majority.

    it is exploitative minority social control that is the problem which is economic and bureaucratic. democratic society must eliminate any and all possibility of any class of people exercising power that are not productive of their own means of subsistence. if they are not producing their means then others are doing it for them and that is where the problem arises

    there must be no class of people at all in society with that kind of power and social organization must reflect that. and if social organization achieves this it eliminates all possibility of the means of the society coming back to control the people: Police states, imposed dictatorship, and the fear of advanced technology being used on the people creating the dystopias feared by some of the great intellects who wrote books warning the people of this danger

    so once the power is in the hands of the people, and the people evolved ways to ensure democracy indefinitely, when they no longer fear Brave New World that they are not making children to be consumed by technological dictatorship..once their perspective takes hold and is expressed in the shape of society in making human truth the basis of education for eg., there will easily always be enough children.

    the right people will make the children and this time all the people will be the right people for such sane societies would take care of all its people. all discrimination would disappear: class discrimination would disappear in full employment and the end of minority rich classes of people making huge social distinctions between themselves and the rest using policing might to enforce it.

    racial discrimination would disappear by democratic economic control..or worker-co-ops and full employment. and s society becomes democratic truth would not be the enemy of anyone so the human truth could be codified and taught to everyone in the world. the true history of the humans species would eliminate all the lying crap that has justified the exploitation, murder and racist separation of the black race and the African continent for example..the mother of all things human

    and in the process the real point job and labour of existence comes to the fore, becomes the general focus of all human activity, encapsulated in the question: how does humanity survive indefinitely in this evolutionary universe?

    to my way of thinking that is a huge question, as vast as the universe itself..yet we have to tackle it. that becomes clear once we get past inane and jackass capitalism: the waste of human time and life accumulating garbage we cant take with us when we die..while we rape and kill the planet in that process.

    the end of capitalist insecurity, human confidence generated by popular ownership of society and the well being of everyone rooted in human skill and capacity to meet all need, organized to meet all human need will bring peace, happiness and lots of children..in families of husbands and wives, fathers mothers and their children. all children become important, our collective responsibility really regardless of their familial difficulties. society is all and all are society, interconnected as all things actually are

    and i trust that sane society stops ultimately producing homosexuality, gender difficulties etc by eliminating the social pressures that make for unwanted differences. society would also come to know what cause such differences on all levels, would be able to prevent all and every dysfunction..and that sane democratic society would be able to handle such capability in sane and humane ways. there would be no existential social reason not to

  79. anonomy says:
    @AnonFromTN

    We aren’t trying to take over and displace another population, probably why we have never procreated as fast and endlessly as those who move in. Their strong beliefs are what keep them together as a people regardless of the size of their population, it’s also what makes them a decent people, not producing more than they can feed. That’s my opinion.

  80. Nawyr says:

    Raising fertility from 1.2 to 1.5 in a couple of years does nothing to make up for decades of sub-2.2 fertility. A major population implosion (with likewise debilitating economic and political effects) is coming in first world countries no matter what.

  81. utu says:
    @follyofwar

    Whatever you have heard there might be a grain of truth in it but these are totally insignificant numbers. Orders of magnitude more Eastern Europeans become permanent resident of Western Europe (Germany, UK, France, Netherlands…) than vice versa.

  82. LH says:
    @RadicalCenter

    It was common to stay with kids for two years in Czechoslovakia. Now mothers have options to stay 2/3/4 years with the kid, receiving support by the state. Most families choose three years.

    Going to work just after few months is very, very rare.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  83. anon[179] • Disclaimer says:

    America’s birthrate resembles the pyramid. Those at the bottom of the pyramid in terms of IQ tend to reproduce the most. Any tax credits or measures to encourage “native” birth will end up encouraging more births from blacks and latinos, not exactly the population we want to increase.

    Singapore under Lee Kuan Yew went through the most intelligent population plan in the 70′s and 80′s. LKY’s policy restrict those with only a high school education or below to only 1 child per couple, those with a Bachelor’s degree can have two, those with a Master’s degree can have as many as they like. Such a system would never fly in the US, but it’s one we need. Parents with STEM degrees should especially be encouraged to have the most children, with high tax incentives and even direct subsidies.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    , @phil
  84. @anon

    Well, that’s what we see in nature: bacteria breed faster than yeast, yeast breed faster than flies, flies breed faster than mice, mice breed faster than cats, cats breed faster than monkeys, and so on. You get the drift.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
  85. RW says:

    Interesting article but who is this Guillaume Durocher? There is no bio of him at the bottom of his articles.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  86. It appears to be common in Eastern Europe for grandparents to help look after children if the mother has a job to go to. At least that is what I have noticed among the families I know there. That is an advantage that might be of some help in carrying out demographic efforts.

    American families in the last century were scattering themselves around the country as nuclear units at the same time that women were entering the workforce in increasing numbers. The result is now daycare as a necessity with no grandparents to help. Worse than that, often there is no family at all, but just a female with offspring.

    I’ve mentioned this before: Victor Orban is a hero and very popular among the Hungarians I know over there and here in the US.

  87. Razor says:
    @Michael Kenny

    With a name like Michael Kenny would I be right to assume that you’re Irish? Lots of us here in Ireland are bedazzled by this supra national entity, recognising rightly, that it has done much good for Ireland since we joined back in the 70′s.

    However, because of this, we tend not to see the negatives, and even discount the deeply anti democratic nature of it, when we were impelled twice to vote again on EU treaties on threats of massive harm to ourselves when we dared to stand in the way of their agenda.

    The EU has been taken over by the same neo-liberals who run the US, and it is no longer run for the peoples of Europe. For a Union that was supposed to be about trade and harmonising relationships across Europe, it is now clear that the agenda is a US of Europe, regardless of whether the peoples want that or not. Not for nothing was the original foundation stone of the EU set up surreptitiously by the CIA. https://www.huffingtonpost.com/riley-waggaman/the-european-union-was-al_b_10739324.html?guccounter=1

    https://www.veteranstoday.com/2016/05/01/eu-was-a-cia-project-from-the-beginning/

    The Irish are perhaps the most naive people in Europe when it comes to the EU. I think it is the continuing tragedy of our post colonial slave mentality. Too many of us can’t really imagine ourselves as a nation truly proud and free, as an equal to any other nation in our culture and genius.

  88. phil says:
    @anon

    Singapore and now Hungary have been thinking in an admirable direction, but it must be admitted that the policies have not yielded very much. Israel’s has produced more tangible results, but it has taken quite a bit of time.

  89. @RW

    He is a European, not as inclined to self-promotion as some people.

  90. Safenow says:

    Hard to imagine that the kids in the photo were ever glued to their digital devices, vs. U.S. kids, who are glued, starting at age three. When women murmur to their husbands “let’s make a baby” they used to mean “baby, plus many more years.” Now the “plus” part is gone at age three. The gameboy and iphone and earplugs take over. In the photo, there are books, suggesting that this is the Cleaver household. Nice, but most times and in most cultures, not realistic. I can’t prove it, but I think the above is part of the problem of low fertility.

  91. @AnonFromTN

    It is also what I saw with Indians. Brahmin have one child and low-caste people have six kids.

    In Europe we are seeing Muslims have six kids and Europeans have zero.

    What will happen is that eventually there is no one to pay into welfare.

  92. @RadicalCenter

    You would be talking about reversing post-industrialization-100 years ago Europeans would start a family at 18 and have 5 kids. Fifty years ago, Europeans would start a family at 25 and have two or three kids.

    These days, Europeans from the middle class start a family at 30 and have one kid.

    And as our government become increasingly black and Hispanic are THEY going to pay for white children.

    I would not be surprised when Hispanics and Blacks get their hands on entire political systems if they simply pulled an Affirmative Action with welfare-if you are poor and white, you don’t get any or it extremely restricted.

    • Replies: @Ben Sampson
    , @Iberiano
  93. @Lot

    The best natalist policies are discouraging liberal arts college education as expected for middle class women and giant exemptions from taxes for large families.

    Spot on Lot.

    And once again the GOP failed to deliver a tax reduction that would actually reward their core–married with children–voters, but served up some Ryanesque piece of crap. (Yes, sure i appreciate the tax cut … but still a piece of shit compared to what is possible.)

    On college, there are all sorts of reforms, but first and foremost we need some certification/exams where people can demonstrate knowledge/skills directly for employers without the credentialism. And then have the feds use those certifications instead of degrees for hiring–to get the ball rolling.

  94. Yevardian says:
    @utu

    [Czechs] unlike Poles or Hungarian do not have delusions of grandeur about their past or their future. Just leave them alone.

    Very true. Czechs are a pragmatic nation coming from artisans and peasants. They don’t grievance-monger and lack arrogance. Unlike Hungary and Poland, their native nobility and any delusions of Empire went extinct many centuries ago. Though there are other factors, you could make the same comparison between Croatia and Serbia.

    • Replies: @hunor
  95. reading the comments above, and extrapolating to the populations as a whole..europe and the west that is..their population problem will only get worse. these are the most silly, unproductive opinions imaginable.

    europe needs population yet the first consideration is limiting reproduction to those deemed the ‘right’ population to increase.

    who is better than whom where reproduction is concerned?

    Lee Kwan Yew was a bloody racist and a capitalist dictator. Had I my druthers Lew would not be able to reproduce for his type is tears for humanity, bloody exploitation of populations. Imagine Lew alive now and leader as he was then with advanced reproductive technology in his hands. not to mention robotization and all that

    Lee would not need people to work anymore so he would have a population he would not need. they would be eliminated and those whom he wanted to reproduce he would permit. but would that lead to an increase in population an demographic safety?

    no it would not. there would be no overall increase only an increase among those with high school education and above. and how many children would they have given the material position in life? not many for sure

    and of course the question begs: who decides the fitness of anyone to reproduce…who knows what is best when it comes to reproduction, who are fit to enhance human biology and who are not?

    do we yet know all that nature takes into consideration in reproduction…do we have the means to factor for all that must be considered. and does even nature know the results of all possibilities when ti comes to reproduction and so guarantees a result that enhances human viability?

    there are in all probability illiterate populations who would not get to first base with the posters here when it comes to their selection..but who contain such biological value that we leave them out at our own peril

    the considerations for population increase, to ensure population viability and human safety does not lie in the considerations of the posts I have read but in the economic viability of the human species. as I have argued above socialism democracy is the answer..making society safe materially. that is a huge job that requires massive human advance on all levels of existence.

    all people will come on-stream socially, all will become socially viable. science will advance, most crucially truth in such democracy challenges no group. indeed such a society lives by sight, puts religious faith in its place and so truth becomes the arbiter. we must know to be able to do and be safe in universal conditions. well fed, proper nutrition, educated in and on and by truth, literate socially everywhere relatively… an end to the traumatization of human by systematic capitalist exploitation war, mass murder and massive existential lies..all of this would make humanity the most fit it has even been, reproducing higher levels of all people..gives humanity its best chance going forward

    all of this is nonsense talk! who are the right people to reproduce? no one here knows! all I read is prejudice that gets us nowhere

    social evolution just about guarantees biological survival. don’t you people see the connections?

    this is human survival! there is no better part of the human species who we would want to reproduce, of would like to and choose to reproduce. who in the hell would they be..middle class white people?

    look here! without any disaster or anything of the sort..let us pick some literate middle class white europeans, and let them loose in a warm climate with everything they need to produce the food they need to eat, housing etc..and see what happens over 5 years?

    I would wager good money they would starve to death…or the intervention to save then would have to occur.

    they would not be able to light fires, chop wood, collect wood, grow food, eat from the wild what might be good and saving. there would be no one to cook for them..no fast food. no machines to wash their clothes…..

    if you let loose 100 of such people 10 if that many would make it. but I know lots of people even in europe and the USA who are not middle class, are not facile in that kind of life yet who survive in such society and would easily make it in the wild. I know ordinary white people, black people etc who would survive anywhere, are capable of doing everything for themselves and are able to learn with approaches to life that would allow them to learn all they had to anywhere and make it. they can read and write as well as anyone. they are facile in the developed society..yet they have not been subsumed by it.

    I am absolutely certain that such people are not on any one’s list among the posters here as the right people to reproduce, yet they are replete with sound human survival qualities, and are actually , literally better than the middle class, ‘educated’ people a Kwan Yew would select first to double up.

    and that kind of thing, the discussion I see here, is a kind of suicide… because if hards times hit the human population such people who would proliferate under the guidance of leaders such as these here, would not be able to survive and carry the human species forward. if these supposed right people became those who reproduce, human extinction would occur must faster than it already is happening

    what we need is social revolution to produce a sane world that operates on the natural principles of life we see simply as the essential factors of guidance towards indefinite survival in nature. we must live guided by them not live contrary to them. the whole organization framework of life under divided exploitative society is wrong, insane, lunatic, suicidal.

    real democracy is the answer, economic and social democracy… and the truth of existence we prove to be guided by..bringing everyone on stream making humanity fit to survive while allowing nature to work with such fit humanity as its evolutionary factor..not the traumatized, miseducated, insane, racist, class conscious and murderous products of exploitative society. that is the suicide, the extinction taking place as we speak.

    by the dominant standards in the discussion here Donald Trump would automatically be selected to reproduce. he is the right kind.

    Pompeo and Bolton, Bill and Hillary, Obama and his wife……but what would those guys be able to do in the real world? if there are none to do all for them that they need they will die. there is no chance at all if society is organized democratically would those guys survive. but it is essential for survival that the human species produce only and all people who can survive no matter which way nature turns. and that requires not what we have bit real democracy..the material well being of all humans

  96. @Antiwar7

    ‘such as the Mormons and Orthodox Jews, will inherit the Earth

    And the Amish.

    That would be an interesting 3 superpower world.’

    The Mormons would win. They’re the only one of the three both willing to be violent and willing to work.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  97. America today in the popular view: “Abortion Rights are Paramount, dammit. Fear all those who might do away with Roe v Wade.”

    “Oops, aborted too many and now need to import humans from Third World Countries since American population is in decline.”

    Ironic result: Third World Country folks actually like and desire to have children and view intact families as good.

    Fast forward to future: Third World Country Folks undo Roe vs. Wade.

  98. Pompeo and Bolton, Bill and Hillary, Obama and his wife etc etc etc……

    but what would those guys be able to do in the real world? if there are none to do for them all that they need they will die.

    there is no chance at all, right now, that if society is organized democratically and such people had to fend for themselves would such as those upper class people survive.

    it is essential for general survival that the human species produce only and all people who can do for self, who are facile in the ways of survival by their own hand, directly..who can survive no matter which way nature turns.

    and that requires not the maniac, suicidal society we now have but real economic democracy, out of which the social relative would grow. the material well being of all humans is the requisite for human survival..HUMAN survival not parts of it..ALL of it

  99. @Jeff Stryker

    “I would not be surprised when Hispanics and Blacks get their hands on entire political systems if they simply pulled an Affirmative Action with welfare-if you are poor and white, you don’t get any or it extremely restricted.”

    this is joke right?

    hahahahaha!

    now that the laffter is out of the way don’t people have purpose just living that we must attend to if we want to survive?

    I mean Blacks and Hispanics have been well trained by white insanity for so long that above is likely a possibility..but only a possibility I imagine faced with the question of direct survival as the planet becomes extremely challenging to human continuation

    social change, driven by the ordinary perspective and social need will not be, cannot be racist and vengeful..would not have the time, do not have the time, and would be able to afford that kind of freedom…waste really

    ordinary people regardless of ethnicity are in the same boat, exhaustively exploited systematically, and therefore have the same interest and social need and imperative: to save themselves,,and society as a whole. they must revolutionize society! quickly, comprehensively, from the ground up.

    they would have no time to spare in that work to play with affirmative action nonsense, especially when they find that there is plenty indeed to go around..lots and lots and lots, if the system comes into the hands of the people and they deploy it in totality in the interest of all. and of course there is the on-going aspect..there is lots currently but even more to come as democracy takes hold and all needs are endeavoured to be met

    to be vengeful would be sick..and of course white people would be part of the revolutionary process, actors, decides democratically etc. which whites then would be left out and tantalized by dangling possible affirmative actions cherries held just out of reach?

    why would the working class, the ordinary people with an historic opportunity, in their haste and need for speed to correct things waste the opportunity by such sick behavior more typical of the elites themselves

    but of course this poster is not thinking of Blacks and Hispanics and ordinary whites in revolutionary social change but disparate such as they who by eduction and training among the white elites, become like them, sick, nihilistic, cruel, crazy and suicidal same as white elites, like such as Obama, get an upper hand and use it to torture whites

    but such an elitist person or persons of colour would inherit the social interest to torture people of colour too. they would torture everybody for they could not forget and ignore their social need to control the people which would include white ordinary people as well

    Black torture of whites in any form ant happen from below..it would have to happen from the top down. and the ordinary folk all of them, of all skin colours and mixtures would have to deal with such the same way..revolutionize society and systematically eliminate such insanity and set up the social shop in their collective interest that would ensure that such can never happen again

    the people cant and wont fall into that kind of trap man. there would be no bullshit affirmative action insanity, or any thing of that sort by the people. in a popular revolutionary movement that kind of this is not possible in the american/european future

  100. @LH

    Glad to hear it. Wise of the Czechs.

  101. “Ironic result: Third World Country folks actually like and desire to have children and view intact families as good.

    Fast forward to future: Third World Country Folks undo Roe vs. Wade.”

    please note Jeff Stryker….

    but that wont come from any third word immigrant impetus in the west. there just are and will not be enough of them to force any such political change

    the impetus for such change will come fro ordinary americans in social progressive movement..all of them …white, black mixed etc

  102. @JOHN CHUCKMAN

    It simply cannot work in the long term.
    There are real economic forces at work in fertility drops in advanced states.
    Government policies, however well-intended, cannot alter them.
    Government would have to assume a huge financial burden even to seriously try.
    Readers might enjoy this explanation:

    John, you might have a well written explanation of the fertility drop. (I think it’s pretty well understood.)

    But why should anyone go check it out when your pitch is clearly mathematically/logically just plain false?

    Obviously there is some set of tax/benefit polices favoring families/children over singles/non-families that will in fact get a nation to above replacement fertility.

    For this not to be the case, would require that either the desired state is physically impossible or that incentives can not move birth rates. Neither of which is true.

    Above replacement fertility is not only a physically (biologically) possible outcome but one that people–women–actually want. The desired #of children that women say they want is above 2 both in Europe and North America in all the surveys i’ve seen. Women–even consumerist/feminist addled–actually want more children than they are having. That suggests that the amount of “pushing” required shouldn’t even be that tremendous.

    The main deal here is simply that all efforts to date pretty much everywhere (perhaps excepting Israel) have been tepid–weak sauce. And what’s really required is a sufficient strength–in terms of incentives–being part of explicit conscious normative change that having children is *the* critical task of both people and the nation.

    In any case, if you–weirdly–don’t believe it’s possible for incentives to increase child bearing–which is both physically possible and already something people do quite a bit voluntarily–then you’re another anti-mathemematical polemicist. And one, who is really on a “we’re doommed” downer. You might as well just get your gun out and end it.

    • Replies: @JOHN CHUCKMAN
  103. Miro23 says:
    @Sean

    A policy that supports families, raises wages, and gives the native population a skills upgrade seems best to me.

    I agree with the micro level approach.

    After putting into law, for example, that Spain is the home of ethnic Spanish people ( with their right to political power), then look at the population at the micro level, and support the family and individual skills upgrades. Few citizens are realizing their full potential, so close this gap in education and at work (best practice, on job training, benchmarking and permanent learning etc. for all forms of work) making it a personal responsibility. Also make respect for the environment personal – i.e. a personal requirement to improve natural habitats (green cover/trees/shrubs) in some way on any privately held property.

  104. hunor says:
    @Yevardian

    Now that you concluded who the Hungarians and Polish people are,
    it is time for you simpletons to look in the mirror and figure out most
    importantly . What are you? Don’t worry yourself about the shortcomings
    of the Hungarians or the Polish . Let’s face the real question . What are you?
    So far it is very clear the self is incredibly strong with you ! Your judgment of an
    other is what you are. ” as you think you are “.

  105. @RadicalCenter

    Excellent comment RC.

    Obviously there are many intelligent and/or hardworking people who don’t earn enough to pay fed income tax — which could include some of us in a bad year. But there’s a correlation between crossing that net taxpayer threshold and displaying intelligence, productivity, and a consistent work ethic, all things we need more of.

    It’s the broad middle to somewhat upper-income earners we want to subsidize to have FAR more children than they are now. We shouldn’t subsidize those who don’t earn enough to pay fed income tax, nor those who are very high income or very high net worth and don’t need the boost.

    Spot on. These are the people–basically the productive middle class that more or less has it’s stuff together and carries the nation forward–that we want to encourage to reproduce more. The people who–in America–vote for the GOP.

    Someday, it would be great to see the GOP, nominally the “conservative” party, actually show some interest in doing something to conserve these people and hence the nation. Well, at least we can dream.

  106. @AnotherDad

    You may be as silly as you wish, but what I wrote remains the underlying hard truth.

    A government cannot compensate for all real economic incentives for not having kids in an advanced society, including the careers of women and the monetary ambitions of couples, plus still other important things.

    It’s as silly to say otherwise as it is to say there were two of each kind of animal on Noah’s Ark, but I suppose you believe that too.

    There in fact is a kind of nativism or secular religiosity behind the beliefs of many who believe as you do. Only intense belief systems support ideas lacking rational, economic analysis.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
  107. @JOHN CHUCKMAN

    Truer words were never spoken.

    Most whites who have five kids will a) marry young b) have a lower-paying skill set c) be poorer.

    Unless we are assuming that we have to have numbers for inevitable race war, there is no choice but to go this way.

    • Replies: @Sean
  108. Sean says:
    @Jeff Stryker

    I think women have a bias not to settle for a goodish match unless absolutely necessary (they are getting too old) and hold out a long time for the perfect husband to have children with, although they rarely get him. In many countries single male immigrants have altered the sex ratio so that women have more choice than ever before. As a result they put off marriage.

  109. http://www.unz.com/article/everything-you-thought-you-knew-about-western-civilization-is-wrong/

    and here it is..right next door…Michael Hudson and some truth that spells out the situation. western civilization has danced with this financial devil for far too long. it is now fat and strong and ready to evolve into Brave New World after a 28 century expansion into the whole world. all over the planet.

    it is time to bell what we call capitalism period, to end financialization, debt. it is time for there to be no financial class, no oligarchy of any kind of concentration of exploitative power. at this point the choice is stark: either social democracy or Jewish Brave New World.

    only capitalism free social democracy in which the power is in the people and the people are the power will work. no more usury: the creation of popular organizing forms the allows the people to run society period, in the collective interest, collective participation resulting in all the decisions that have to be made, that must be made relative to the functioning of global society, each in their own cultural way the principles general..democracy..total democracy

    it is time for the people out in the streets, with ropes and cross-bars to deal with the financiers once and for all..or they will deal with us/ . it is time for the people to come out, take over and create as they go driven by general need the forms of social organization that will reflect the peoples interest period

    and when society is by the people and for the people humanity will reproduce accordingly in general confidence and success. that would be the major benefit of the social democracy emerging out of this final capitalist crisis. we have no more time: this is it. humanity has advanced to the point where no more dancing with the issue is possible. the capitalist can no longer create great wars to depopulate and smash societies and to rebuild at interest on their dollar

    all those options are not too expensive and likely to end in real war to kill everyone. the capitalist/financier must no evolve, his financial debt based game at an end. a way must be found to to maintain capitalist social control and it already has been conceived. and that way is for the Oligarch to evolve into the total barbarism that always threatened in and around his system. in our technological age science will be applied to humanity in ways that secures oligarchical control in perpetuity

    the people, we all face that option. indeed it is already advanced, happening to us as we speak as the surveillance state spreads, freedom/movement i.e disappears etc. the Brave New scientifically controlled world is well on its way. ”how many children are any of you all going to have then?”

    choice we face is to create socialist society of become enslaved to the financiers..which would be Brave New World

    • Replies: @Sean
  110. Iberiano says:
    @Jeff Stryker

    I’ve actually thought about that. It would at first have to be sold as a “restructuring”, but it most likely will happen. When the demographic trends indicate “they” (whomever it may be, in whatever given state) are actually the taxpaying majority and they control all the politics (i.e. a “Latino” state), you may well see such policies designed to make it difficult for the few remaining whites to actually utilize welfare, and associated government benefits. I do not think this will happen with blacks, because they will never be self-sufficient enough to run a state, and be the majority of the highest (above the mean) taxpayers, by population and/or ratio.

    Interestingly, a few years ago, some well-known economist (can’t recall his name but he is on serious financial shows), who I had never heard of being political, made a passing comment. In talking about the future of retirees in the US, he actually said on this radio show, something akin to the aging white population mistakenly believing that as demographic trends continue, they can count on being “taken care of” (in the context of social security, other normal and historical benefits). He seemed to be indicating in a nice way, that do not expect your “end of days” to be living in a comfy state-owned or subsidized nursing home, or to receive medicaid or hospice, etc. People who are not your people, don’t care about you, and will not provide for you, personally, professionally, or via the state, once they are in charge of the state, substantially.

    Does anyone really think that if the Ocasio-Cortez’s of the world gained control of the US government they wouldn’t begin targeting whites, however it was dressed up (“Americans over the age of 50, with children who attended private schools) for reductions in benefits, or other anti-white policies? However it was crafted, and/or morphed as time progressed. No different than poll taxes to keep away black voters. It’s amazing to think there are still asleep whites who think such possibilities are impossible, yet live in a nation where their own children or grandchildren, have to compete against affirmative action in hiring and contracts, against people who literally walked across the nation’s border in the last couple of decades and have no historic connection nor oppression related to the US.

    Whites are so lulled to sleep that they actually believe it is normal, and ok, that someone who’s parents brought them here illegally, and they are themselves illegal, will get in-state tuition, grants, affirmative action in all things in life, and a host of other benefits paid for by these same whites. Literal foreigners…completely unlike black Americans–no historic connection to the US, no oppression, no ‘slavery’, nothing. They just show up and are moved to the head of the line.

    • Replies: @Ben Sampson
  111. @Iberiano

    “I’ve actually thought about that. It would at first have to be sold as a “restructuring”, but it most likely will happen. When the demographic trends indicate “they” (whomever it may be, in whatever given state) are actually the taxpaying majority and they control all the politics (i.e. a “Latino” state), you may well see such policies designed to make it difficult for the few remaining whites to actually utilize welfare, and associated government benefits. I do not think this will happen with blacks, because they will never be self-sufficient enough to run a state, and be the majority of the highest (above the mean) taxpayers, by population and/or ratio.”

    Ron Unz is a very attractive intellect. agree with or disagree you read whatever he says avidly, with interest and focus. and you are attracted to where he functions because you expect more of the same from all in those environs. therefore disappointment in this expectation is a surprising

    that is a most inaccurate comment about Black people..and it exposes the poster as intellectually incompetent and stupidly racist..ignorant too of his existential and historical underpinnings and evolutionary reality on all levels of existence

    it takes all kinds but I did not anticipate such would find food and opportunity next to Unz and in his thing. Maybe Unz does not pay attention to his board..prolly too busy. he allows it to live as it may

    • Replies: @Iberiano
  112. @Colin Wright

    Disagree. Amish work. In fact, they produce more tangible goods (as opposed to BS like financial services used for creative accounting to bolster the GDP bubble) in the US than their share of the population. But they are not violent.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  113. Sean says:
    @Ben Sampson

    and when society is by the people and for the people humanity will reproduce accordingly in general confidence and success.


    a hard sell compared to

  114. by the way: Victor Orban is a very impressive regular white man human person..and political personality. I am not white but Black, african derived> . but I can appreciate someone like Orban

    Orban is the one european political leader I take seriously. I am not a capitalist so where Oban is we do not agree. but Orban is strong, fearless and keen in the interest of his nation and people.

    it gives me the very greatest pleasure to see him and his family in good order. 5 children eh. wonderful

    Orban takes lot of shame out of the face of europe currently. there is still hope for europe eh. Good business this. may there be more Obans in a hurry for europe. Obans are better than nutten… which is what such as Macron and May are

    • Replies: @slim
  115. Sean says:

    Women are happy to marry and bear the children of a dynamic hero type. But they take a long time to realise they are not going to get Mr Big. Orban’s wife picked up on his qualities before he was famous.

  116. @Skeptikal

    But might nonetheless start sending the oldest to daycare for the child’s social development.

    Sorry to be repetitive, but AT 3 YEARS OLD?! Social freaking development? No, wrong. The social development should come from the home. Putting a kid in daycare that young, unless it’s done out of necessity (part of the problem with women working), is just starting the indoctrination that much earlier. Those are the prime years 0 – 8 (even 10) at which your children will trust you (the parents) more than the teachers spouting off the ctrl-left crapola. Teachers, as a whole, tend to be more lefty and doctrinaire than the rest of us, patriots.

    Bad idea all around, unless it’s just for 3 hours daily or so, and better at a pre-school in which you know some of the other kids and parents.

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
  117. @RadicalCenter

    I almost always agree with you, RC, along with AD (I read the reply). I am glad you two finally brought up the welfare state actual cause of the problem to begin with. Somebody had to do it! I was AWOL from this thread. I did enjoy reading the long article, with the very concise facts and figures, BTW, Mr. Durocher, However, I found it amazing neither the author nor most commenters till now got down to the root cause of the problem with the RIGHT PEOPLE having children and the WRONG PEOPLE not flooding society with deadbeats (as laid out in the Ezra-somebody quote).

    Now, I’ve got a technicality here that I don’t agree with in this comment. It’s really just a tax-accounting point. What difference does refundable vs. non make? I understand what it means – if you get a refund, the credit will not add to it, but if you owe money the credit will be subtracted. That’s just a gimmick and can easily be gotten around via the W-4 form. I mess around with that form myself for my own reasons:

    a) I didn’t want to let the US Feral gov’t be my savings plan, particularly in the days before the FED forced interest rates down to near nil. Why give them the interest on top of the sweat of your labor that they already take and give to the 3-5 children welfare families? Can you not be disciplined enough to save your own money? (that “you” was not directed at you two, by any means.)

    b) I don’t like a refund coming because that gives me NO LEVERAGE when there is a discrepancy. There was one a few years back, in which the IRS said I owed $500 more dollars, I didn’t agree, and couldn’t get them on the phone easily, so I didn’t pay. They took that money out of my next year’s refund. I was extremely pissed, which taught me well though. Owe a few bucks, if you can work it out right. Then, if there’s a problem, you just let it ride. You want justice, IRS, work it out. You’ve got my number (no, actually they don’t!)

    c) As far as this type of credit goes, what’s to stop anyone from raising the number of exemptions on that W-4 form to arrange for a decent amount to be owed next April 15th? I was thinking of this same thing with the Øb☭macare tax, though thankfully that business hasn’t applied to me. Make sure that they can’t get that $99 or whatever it is now.

  118. @RadicalCenter

    Yes, they can be hateful, and the whole thing is just very sad. The problem is that they listened to the wrong people for a long stretch of their lives. These people may have been on TV, now on the internet, or peers, as the commenter said, at most colleges nowadays. It’s too late to learn the truth by a certain age, as Mother Nature is a tough broad, with no mercy.

    This does relate back to my comment about the daycare for 3 y/o’s in the long run. The more time your children have to develop a trust in you, the longer they will keep it. The daycare kid whose Mom made good money and cooked dinner and put him to bed, as the Dad worked his ass off also paying for this, and then leaving him with kin once in a while to go on overseas vacations, won’t have that

    The first kid may very well believe you or your wife when you explain to him the stupid stuff he needn’t listen to (or at least heed) in HS and college. The other kid will start trusting in his peers more early on, and will not be up for heeding any of your advice. This is usually bad for not only young women, but young men too.

  119. Skeptikal says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Try to contain yourself.
    Do you actually know anything about child development, or is this a purely ideological stand? I suspect it is.
    I suggest you read up on the writings of one of the greats of child development, Dr. Stanley Greenspan.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/28/AR2010042805731.html?noredirect=on

    Dr. Greenspan devoted his life to understanding and learning how to identify the phases of child cognitive development, which he did not separate from emotional and social development.
    He didn’t have an ax to grind. He came to an understanding of the great need for the infant to bond with significant others for its cognitive development. He also came to understand the development stages at which the child can venture outward. I’ll waste no more time on writing because I doubt that you are genuinely interested or even have a clue as to what I am talking about. If you or others are actually interested in learning something, check out his The Four Thirds Solution.

    https://www.amazon.com/Four-Thirds-Solution-Solving-Childcare-America/dp/0738207675

    And his other books.

    BTW, Greenspan is also recognized as a brilliant pathbreaker and authority by child development specialists in Russia.

  120. @Skeptikal

    Do you actually know anything about child development, or is this a purely ideological stand? I suspect it is.

    Nah, it’s not from a book by any brilliant pathbreaker. I’m done with brilliant pathbreakers. It’s from raising kids. Your Greenspan may very well have some good things to say, but common sense comes from seeing outside your head.

    How did this Dr. Spock of the present era work out wrt your kids, Mr. Skeptical? I read a few of the reviews of his book just now, but do you not know that child-raising is very much instinctual? We are animals just like the rest of ‘em, and one wonders how folks raised their kids before the books by these illustrious pathbreakers. Somehow they dd pretty damn well.

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
    , @Skeptikal
  121. Skeptikal says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I wonder how I knew that you were not really interested in children—just your ideology.
    It so happens that Greenspan clocked thousands of hours throughout his career *on the floor* with children.

    Your snarky “Dr. Spock” is pathetic.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  122. Iberiano says:
    @Ben Sampson

    I can’t be racist, because I’m Hispanic. I’m not part of the talented 10th Elite Powerbrokers like Obungles. When we have a Latinx President then you will have permission to address me and our people–when we permit. Until such time, understand that you are beneath us.

    Pow!

    • Replies: @Ben Sampson
  123. Skeptikal says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I really have to laugh at the know-it-alls who think that their own “instincts” are God’s gift to children/women/you name it. These are the loudmouths who are incapable of listening to said childrenk/women/you name it, they are so busy following their “instincts.”

    I feel sorry for Mrs. What, Me Worry and the Me Worry children.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  124. @Skeptikal

    I’m interested in my own, more than the other children, of course. I am a big fan of homeschooling, but its not something we can do right now, due to the obligations of my wife. She is also a bit rigid-thinking on all this, but is coming around slowly. I have always admired those that do homeschool. I just met a lady who had first been telling me how her girl had been reading since 3. After bragging myself, I asked her what school the now-5 y/o was going to. She told me that they homeschool*, and I was pleased to hear it.

    Your snarky “Dr. Spock” is pathetic.

    Don’t show your ignorance. I’m talking about Dr. Spock, the big “expert” on children from the 1960′s**, not the Science Officer of the Enterprise. If you did know that, then my apologies, but it wasn’t snark, as the comparison is apt. That’s not at all saying that Dr Greenspan has the same “prescription” for the children, but I just don’t need the self-help books on this.

    I haven’t seen an answer so far as to whether you are using the information from this groundbreaking pathfinder to raise your own kids. Yes or no?

    .

    * Above all, homeschooling is poking the the Beast in the eye with a big stick, meaning something that those with too much respect for authority just HATE HATE HATE. (Part 2 and Part 3)

    ** Maybe even earlier, but it was before my time. My Dad would mention him and the whole cult of parenting from him, not favorably.

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
  125. @Skeptikal

    It’s not my just MY instincts. I doubt they are a lot different from those of other parents. As I said, parents have been raising children since Cain and Able, usually without instruction manuals… though I guess the Cain/Able thing went somewhat wrong …

    Don’t be sorry about my family; they are doing just fine. I hate to be a Tucker Carlson*, but, I pissed you off, and I! GET! THAT!, but could you please just answer the question?

    * No, actually, I’d really like that gig!

  126. Avery says:
    @RadicalCenter

    {Having said that, can you please ask the young Armenian guys in Glendale (CA) not to drive like maniacs?}

    They _are_ driving like maniacs.
    Real menace to the public and other drivers.
    Really disgusting riff-raff in expensive cars.
    I would ask, but if they had the brains to listen, they wouldn’t do what they are doing in the first place.

  127. Armenian-Californian Question

    Why are Armenians in California more successful than Hispanics or Blacks?

  128. @AnonFromTN

    Disagree. Amish work…'

    You’re not disagreeing with me.

  129. anonymous[161] • Disclaimer says:

    Upping the fertility rate is well and good to preserve your kind, but in the context of Europe, on which this essay is based, it is simply condemning initially-innocent lives to an adult life of pagan polytheist godlessness & supremacist self-worship, leading to an eternally terrifying hereafter in Hell.

    When I think of those totally pure sinless white babies, who had no say in being brought into this world, I feel a deep sense of sadness for the fate which most probably awaits them, as they grow up and become their fathers and mothers (e.g Orban and his spawn).

    But then, eventually most of them will grow up into the white supremacist scum of their ancestral kind. For such, the comeuppance which awaits will be much deserved.

  130. anonymous[161] • Disclaimer says:
    @Verymuchalive

    The future of white people depends on lots of people like them.

    It sure does, for the rest of you are turning into such impotents!!

    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/316174214_Decline_in_sperm_count_in_European_men_during_the_past_50_years

  131. @Iberiano

    there is a comedic stage for you somewhere, where the field ones go to die.
    surprised you haven’t found it yet.
    you must have fell and hit your head

  132. anonymous[161] • Disclaimer says:
    @Verymuchalive

    They are very much aware of the threat that Islam poses for Christians.

    Lol! How did a call to the true monotheism of Islam, and a rejection of the pagan polytheist mangod-worship of Christianity, pose a “threat” to any logical-minded theist? Only those in the complete thrall of satan would consider it that way.

    Certainly, one would expect the self-proclaimed “geniuses” of the “great” western civilisation to have enough IQ to understand something as spiritually basic as that.

    God willed your pagan polytheist civilisation exceptional success in this world, for a cosmic blink in time, but condemned it in the eternal Hereafter. A true monotheist would gladly reject such worldly successes, a billion times in magnitude, to escape the fate such as what awaits your pagan hides.

  133. slim says:
    @Ben Sampson

    It is a well know fact that western Europeans as well as Americans are not replacing themselves fast enough to keep their cultures going. A few years back I read a very interesting book “Death of a Nation” and one of the reasons a nation can fade away is the decline birth rates. I understand what Hungary is trying to do to keep their way of life & culture and what is important to their nation, I also believe they r a religious people. I applaud them and I wish them well, alone with Poland and Italy, but more so Poland and their fearless Leader Victor Orban!

  134. slim says:

    I agree with you Sir, I am not an admirer of May or Macron or Merkel! I also think that all nations should do what is in the best interest of their Culture & nation!

  135. It’s hard to challenge an article that describes how one country is doing something as simple and apparently as ingenious as supporting the foundation of every society — families. While at the same time defending their country from careless intrusion.

    Bravo to them.

  136. AGREED!

    It must be bizarro-day, if I agree with ^ this guy, but what can I say?

  137. Skeptikal says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I am of a mind not to accept your apology, and here is why.
    The fact that you could ever imagine that I meant the Dr. Spock of Enteprise is simply too absurd to bother with.
    It would be more logical for me to assume that *you* mean the Star Ship Spock!!
    *You* were the one who mentioned Dr. Spock.Not me. And you did so in a snarky tone. And I called you out on it. So presumably you are the one who meant the Start Ship Spock.I sure hope you are not the one teaching your kids logic.

    A further transgression against logic: In your ignorance you diss the internationally recognized work of Dr. Greenspan as “self-help,’ but you are planning to home-school your kids (when you get around to it). Also, recall, we were talking about daycare, not home-schooling. Although the subject was not your own family, you assumed that it was. What happens in your family is of concern only to you and is of no interesting to anyone. And under the circumstances it is not even of anecdotal interest. None of this hangs together. You just like to argue. I sure hope you are not planning to lock your kids up in your house 24/7 until they are supposed to go out in the world and get along with others besides their family members.

  138. Skeptikal says:
    @Z-man

    I visited Hungary (Budapest) decades ago, so my observations are out of date.
    But, I was struck by two things: what looked to me like quite a homogeneous population (similar type of coloring, facial structure, “look”), and I thought the Hungarians were very attractive. Not necessarily “pretty” or “handsome,” but were clear-eyed, healthy, and looked intelligent.

  139. Skeptikal says:
    @RadicalCenter

    I visited Hungary (Budapest) decades ago, so my observations are out of date.
    But, I was struck by two things: what looked to me like quite a homogeneous population (similar type of coloring, facial structure, “look”), and I thought the Hungarians were very attractive. Not necessarily “pretty” or “handsome,” but were clear-eyed, healthy, and looked intelligent.

    • Replies: @Anne Lid
  140. Skeptikal says:
    @RadicalCenter

    Many educated but unmarried American women chose not to have children because they couldn’t afford to raise them on their own. The social supports are inadequate.

    Many such women would have become mothers if they had lived in, say, Denmark, Sweden, even the UK (in earlier days) or Germany or Canada, or perhaps just about any other developed country besides the USA.

    Presumably the social supports of “families” in Hungary include social supports for single mothers who head families. Before you start fulminating about the decline of marriage etc., bear in mind that many single mothers are not single when they become mothers and also that statistically there are more women than men, so not all healthy, fertile women will find mates unless they find a divorced man or a bigamist.

  141. @Skeptikal

    What the heck are you talking about, dude? We have what some call a language barrier. OK, that was just re: your nutty 1st paragraph.

    I can read the 2nd one without too much of a headache, so

    What happens in your family is of concern only to you and is of no interesting to anyone.

    Yes, that’t the way it should be. I understand you are some kind of European and it’s probably difficult to get rid of the Statist attitude that come natural over there.. However, locking up the kids in the house is not the idea. The idea is dealing voluntarily with like-minded parents with good kids, not starting the indoctrination at the government indoctrination camps oops, schools, any sooner than is possible.

    Daycare does not usually involve a lot of love from the women who run these things. I don’t mean they are bad people, but the more time your kids spend with their parents, the more trust is built up and the more they will listen when the inevitable conflicts between your guidance and that of the statist schools crop up.

    About Dr. Greenspan, I’ll just have to say it again, in a different way: Your trust in “experts” in misguided. Parenting is not like auto repair or database management.

  142. @Skeptikal

    Can you please just answer the question? Do you have kids?

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
  143. Skeptikal says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Just answer the question:
    Do you actually have a job?

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  144. @Skeptikal

    Yes.

    Your turn. I hate to go all Tucker Carlson on you, but now, do you see why he has to get like that?

  145. Tiny says: • Website
    @Anatoly Karlin

    The best way to promote population growth and have a forward-moving society is to have insane numbers of births and a situation where the least successful and productive populations are forced to leave, which in a sense is a genetic culling. This is the exact scenario North Africa and especially Nigeria face. Save all the other factors involved, they have the blueprint to a super state. “take all our trash, we keep the best”

    Notably this is the inverse of the modern US on two levels: policy and reality. First, our post-1960s immigration policy (without quotas, without a focus on high-achieving merit-based migration); and second, the types of people who are setting off for the US from its key sources of migratory influx. Only Europe has it worse in this category of reality-based intake, but with the caravan idea introduced, where a guiding hand of millions of incapable is there to integrate into and escort you, this reality could change abruptly.

  146. Tiny says:

    Generally speaking this is the best model to produce both a productive and self-sustaining society, even a growing one. What they need though is a valve and pipeline for the least successful to be pushed away from this mass and not coddled by the social state. Ironically the African and Middle Eastern migrants that the EU insists Hungary take instead of doing any of this that they are doing all come from Africa and the Middle East’s own pipeline, save the actual Syrians who were displaced by random war circumstances. That all changes now.

  147. Anne Lid says:
    @Skeptikal

    Thank you. Budapest is very multicultural by now, we even have a mulatto MP, Olivio Kocsis-Cake.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-44414668

    Can’t say he has any original ideas, in the article he says he has been in dangerous situations (that is, he has never been attacked, merely perceived danger), but of course Hungarians “need” to be more open (=have more mulattoes).
    Someone above mentioned Christians, we do have our share of creationist, Zionist ones, Kenneth Hagin and Hovind types. They started out as renegades, criticising all traditional churches as corrupt. Now they have a lot of clout and turned out to be even more corrupt then those they badmouthed. They own a tv channel (ATV).
    Recently the government gave a huge sum to fund a new organisation lead by a Hasidic court Jew to suss out antisemitism in Hungary and later, all of Europe. It’s called Tett és Védelem, Action and Protection, but a naughty commenter christened it Tett és Végbelem, Action and My Anus. Hungarians are first screwed out of the money given to the organisation, then will be screwed for their opinions. Meanwhile Hungary is one of the safest places for the Jewish.
    All in all, Orban was the best choice available to us. The previous socialist government let the economy fall to pieces. His Christian and patriotic overtones, his family policy is mocked relentlessly by the opposition, but it resonates with the people. If there was a second voting today he would still win.

  148. @Skeptikal

    I suggest you read up on the writings of one of the greats of child development, Dr. Stanley Greenspan.

    An excellent suggestion. Dr. Greenspan was a remarkable expert in the well-established science of psychoanalysis, and was driven by only the purest of motives — the true spirit of tikkun olam. We should all listen to this renowned expert’s advice.

    Happy Hanukkah to you and Dr. Greenspan.

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