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Correlation between skull among indigenous Europeans. Source: NHI/NCBI

After the Second World War, the study of race and heredity became taboo, partly as an understandable result of association with German atrocities. Talk of skull shape and race – whether “Nordic,” “Aryan,” or Jewish – used to be mainstream science but if you discuss any of these today, you are likely to be marginalized as a dangerous crackpot. However, history marches on. The progression of genetics and neuroscience mean that we can know more and more about the biological realities of different ethnic and genetic/racial groups, including their average physical, health, and psychological differences.

Racial/genetic science is even making a slow comeback in Europe. Just last month, Alain de Benoist’s Nouvelle École magazine published an entire dossier on the “Paleo-Genetics of the Indo-Europeans,” showing the genetic imprint left by this ancient warrior people’s conquest of Europe some 4000 years ago. (The clunky term “Indo-European” essentially refers to what used to be called “the Aryans.”)

I would argue that the development of genetics and neuroscience may also help us to understand not only our own nature as humans of various origins, but also the specificity and dynamics of European history. I want to thank Ted Sallis for bringing attention to a fascinating study (which I have only just come across) examining the correlation between skull shape, brain size, and brain morphology on the one hand, and intra-European regional ancestry on the other. The results are very interesting indeed.

The study, published in the journal Human Heredity, was performed by Trygve Bakken, Anders Dale, and Nicholas Schork for the Alzheimer’s Disease Neuroimaging Initiative. The authors compared skull size and brain morphology (the latter identified through MRI scans) with intra-European regional ancestry and genes.

The results are remarkable:

We found that both skull and brain morphological variation exhibit a population-genetic fingerprint among individuals of European ancestry. This fingerprint shows a Northwest to Southeast gradient, is independent of body size, and involves frontotemporal cortical regions.

In short, the frontal and temporal lobes of the brain get bigger as one moves from individuals with a southeast European ancestral background to those with a northwest European one. The authors point out that such knowledge can help us treat mental illnesses like Alzheimer’s, the results suggest “that genetic background should be considered in studies seeking to identify genes involved in human cortical development and neuropsychiatric disease.”

The authors write:

Human brain morphology is highly heritable and influenced by specific genetic factors. . . . However, the relationship between genetic background – the accumulation of genetic variants due to prehistoric and historic demographic processes, including migrations and bottlenecks – and brain morphology among individuals distributed globally and regionally has not been directly studied. . . .

Human skull morphology varies greatly worldwide largely due to the accumulation of genetic and environmental differences within populations but also between geographically separated populations. . . . We focused on this geographic region because populations in Europe are genetically differentiated in a continuous manner consistent with known historical migrations, and these populations vary in skull size and shape. . . .

We found that . . . individuals with NW ancestry are on average 4 cm taller than . . . individuals with a SE or Ashknenazi Jewish ancestry . . . consistent with previously observed differences in height across Europe. . . .

Intracranial and brain volumes and cortical surface area progressively increase with the amount of inferred NW European ancestry . . . and these measures are approximately 5% larger in the 10% of individuals with the most NW European ancestry compared to the 10% with the most SE European ancestry. This percentage increase matches the percentage increase in cranial length and breadth observed along the same NW-SE geographic axis in the skull data set and cannot be attributed to a correlation with body size since we controlled for height and weight. This correlation involves specific – not global – brain morphology because hippocampal, basal ganglia, ventricular, and cerebellar volumes and average cortical thickness are not associated with NW-SE ancestry.

Northern Europeans, famous already in the later Nineteenth Century for their blonde hair and dolichocephalic (long) skulls then really have different brains (implying highly probable psychological differences). The authors speculate on the possible origins of this northwest European difference:

Larger brain size in modern humans is thought to be weakly correlated with increased cognitive performance, and therefore could have been subject to mild positive selection. Alternatively, larger skulls may have been selected for their increased globularity – i.e. a greater volume to surface area ratio – and thus reduced heat loss for a given brain size. Consequently, larger skulls may have provided a small selective advantage to humans in colder climates and indirectly resulted in modestly increased brain volumes in northern European populations. However, whether or not the morphological diversity we have observed across Europe resulted from neutral genetic drift, natural selection, or a combination of both is an open question.

Ted Sallis adds that such brain shape differences be the cause of psychological differences:

One can speculate that these differences are derived from Paleolithic hunter-gatherer vs. Neolithic farmer ancestry percentages, with brain size and intelligence being maximized among northern hunter-gatherers. Note that the frontal lobes are important in judgment and impulse control, and these data may explain the stereotypes of the restrained, disciplined, stoic Nordic vs. the gesticulating, undisciplined, emotional Swarthoid. Temporal lobes deal with sensory input, and size differences there may be related to the greater requirement for spatial competence in hunter-gatherers.

There is a fairly striking, though imperfect, overlap between the authors’ map showing brain shape variation in Europe and long-term economic development outcomes: as one goes from northwest to southeast Europe (say, from Denmark to Turkey), developmental outcomes steadily deteriorate and corruption steadily goes up. As I documented in “The Convergence Hoax,” differences in economic performance in Europe are not being eliminated, with northwest Europe retaining a decisive advantage over southern Europe.

The “Blue Banana” of economically-dynamic regions core regions of Europe since the late Middle Ages.
The “Blue Banana” of economically-dynamic regions core regions of Europe since the late Middle Ages.
Per capita wealth of the regions of the European Union. Eastern Europe has been held back by communism and will no doubt partially converge in wealth with western Europe.
Per capita wealth of the regions of the European Union. Eastern Europe has been held back by communism and will no doubt partially converge in wealth with western Europe.

It is perfectly possible that such differences in social outcomes are in part due to underlying biological differences. As E. O. Wilson pointed out in his masterpiece, Sociobiology, in both humans and animals relatively small biologically-based psychological or behavioral differences lead to very significant accumulated social and cultural differences. If you have a slightly more guilt-prone population, this might lead to a wider culture of guilt becoming normative, and hence to a much more law-abiding population. Conversely, if you have a slightly more selfishness-prone population, this might lead to a wider culture of “honesty is for suckers” developing over time, and hence to a generally corrupt society.

In any event, it will be interesting to see how much eastern Europe converges with western Europe economically and socio-culturally. Southern Europe will not converge with the northwest for the foreseeable future. The Visegrád countries and the Baltic states may well converge. However, I can attest that no informed person thinks that the Balkan countries will succeed any time soon, if ever. Their position (including Turkey) is in fact perfectly intermediary between the highly functional (perhaps overly functional) societies of northwest Europe and the vicious non-societies of the Middle-East (where each country has a choice between the tyranny of some ethno-religious group/clan or civil war between said ethno-religious groups/clans).

The dynamism of northern and western Europe has been apparent at least since the days of Carolingians and the Vikings. German minority communities spread across the Balkans and much of the Baltic sea coast, becoming establishing islands of conquest, settlement, trade, and urbanization, among the generally more apathetic eastern European rural masses. Many of the most beautiful and developed cities of these regions were in fact built by the Germans. Emil Cioran, a Romanian nationalist intellectual who later became a Parisian nihilist, could still observe in 1936: “Capricious, irritable, nervous, and flighty, how could the Romanian fraternize with the disciplined, staid, and steady spirit of the Saxon?”[1]Emil Cioran, Apologie de la barbarie: Berlin-Bucarest (1932-1941) (Paris: L’Herne, 2015), p. 180. Cioran spoke from experience, having been raised among the Saxons of his native Transylvania.

More generally, in considering the historical Balkans in particular – with its Jews, Germans, Magyars, southern Slavs (themselves very phenotypically diverse), Romanians, Albanians, and Gypsies – one can only be struck by the astonishing physical, cultural, and behavioral diversity of the various juxtaposes populations. The Balkans are really a remarkable Petri dish of human biodiversity.

Saxon man with a Gypsy woman (taken from a recent documentary: Survival and Syncretism in the Transylvanian Plateau: Mixed Saxon and Gypsy Families).
Saxon man with a Gypsy woman (taken from a recent documentary: Survival and Syncretism in the Transylvanian Plateau: Mixed Saxon and Gypsy Families).

Of course, exactly linking any biological trait to particular historical, cultural, and social outcomes is a fraught affair. Human societies are simply too complex. But that does not mean we should assume biology plays no role: rather, there should be entire departments of geneticists, neuroscientists, evolutionary psychologists, psychometricians, sociologists, economics, historians, and others working together to figure out what is going on.

If there is even a partial biological basis to (northwest) Europeans’ psychology, which in turn underpins Western culture in all its uniqueness, then the genetic replacement and dissolution of this population through immigration will, eventually, mean the end of that psychology and culture.

I was also struck by what the authors of this study take for granted as mainstream science today. According to previous studies “cranial variation was associated with geography and language family more than time period (Early and Late Middle Ages and a Recent Period). Therefore, European cranial diversity has retained some of its spatial patterning for at least 1,500 years.” This suggests that European populations had not moved much during this time period, immigrationist propaganda notwithstanding. Furthermore, the authors observe that “Ashkenazi Jewish individuals are geographically dispersed in Europe and yet are genetically quite similar and genetically intermediate between SE European and Middle Eastern populations.”

The authors also observe that “Brain volume and cortical surface area in humans increased dramatically after our evolutionary divergence from non-human primates, peaking some 35,000 years ago.” However, they also say that humans left Africa . . . “approximately 40,000 years ago.” Doesn’t that leave the possibility that those who remained in Africa might have, so to speak, ‘missed the boat’ of much of recent human cognitive development? The authors do not get into inter-continental differences in brain morphology.

The observation of intra-European differences used to be accepted wisdom. During World War II, John F. Kennedy observed that northern Europe was more organized than southern Europe, while one of Charles de Gaulle’s first acts as leader of liberated France, was to decree that French immigration policy should be more welcoming of “Nordics” and reduce the entry of Southerners and Middle-Easterners. Talk of “Nordics” and “Aryans” may have become taboo since then, but certain realities are slowly being raised. The science suggests that northern Europeans are indeed blonder, taller, and have differently-shaped brains.

Artist’s impression of Yamnaya warlord.
Artist’s impression of Yamnaya warlord.

The Daily Mail recently published a richly-illustrated article on “The most violent group of people who ever lived: Horse riding Yamnaya tribe who used their huge height and muscular build to brutally murder invade their way across Europe [more] than 4,000 years ago” (that’s just the headline). The article notes that the Yamnaya (which, in the olden days, were simply called the Aryans, so dear to Nietzsche and Hitler) conquered Europe and India, often exterminated the local males, drank milk and ate beef, and used horses and chariots. Conan the Barbarian was actually based on a true story. The evidence increasingly suggests Big Beautiful Blonde Brawny Big-Brained Beef-eating Bronze-age Barbarians (B8s) were not just a figment of the nineteenth-century imagination. Rather that it is we postwar moderns who have become too weak and miseducated to accept certain scientific truths when these politically inconvenient or too emotionally and psychologically unbearable.

To this day, the majority of Westerners and northern Indians speak languages which are descended from that of the conquerors. The religion, culture, and institutions of ancient Greece, Rome, and India – the foundation of the Western and Indian civilizations – were furthermore established by various branches of this same people. Their heroic and aristocratic martial ethos is still preserved, in a late form, in the poems of Homer and the Hindu classics.

Finally, I was struck by the fact that the Human Heredity article in question is eight years old. It seems the authors have not published much further the work in the same vein. Some of them did however publish an equally-remarkable study showing that “the three-dimensional geometry of cortical surface is highly predictive of individuals’ genetic ancestry in West Africa, Europe, East Asia, and America.” In short: race is only cerebral-cortex-deep!

There must have been many more similar studies published since then. Are you aware of any? Please add them in the comments.

By way of conclusion, I add that none of these observations are meant in a spirit of hostility or denigration towards any people. I am not happy about the disadvantages of any human population. Anyway, northern European societies may be better at producing and sharing economic wealth, but they have also clearly gone insane and are leading Western civilization towards genetic and cultural dissolution. We also need a dose of the proverbial ‘Mediterranean sanity.’ That having been said, we ought to be brave enough to see the world as it is. Any human order based on falsehoods is bound to collapse sooner or later. Science is coming, whether people like it or not.

Notes

[1] Emil Cioran, Apologie de la barbarie: Berlin-Bucarest (1932-1941) (Paris: L’Herne, 2015), p. 180.

 
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  1. An interesting article.

  2. Would love to see the investigation carried out across Eurasia, from edge to edge. Then animated as a MMP 5G video game in 8K that allowed a billion simultaneous players.

    • LOL: Anatoly Karlin
  3. Thomm says:

    I always found it funny how they don’t put Paris in the Blue Banana.

    That said, there are a number of flaws with this theory. The Bronze Age got to Northwestern Europe much, much later than it got to Southeastern Europe.

    Furthermore, remember that the Romans built walls to keep Northern barbarians out, most notably Hadrian’s Wall in Britain.

  4. Racial/genetic science is even making a slow comeback in Europe. Just last month, Alain de Benoist’s Nouvelle École magazine published an entire dossier on the “Paleo-Genetics of the Indo-Europeans,” showing the genetic imprint left by this ancient warrior people’s conquest of Europe some 4000 years ago. (The clunky term “Indo-European” essentially refers to what used to be called “the Aryans.”)

    No it does not. Why do I keep seeing people uttering this moronic statement? When will they stop doing it? “Aryan” refers to Indo-Iranic people who came way after the Indo Europeans and are a distinct branch of the Indo-European language family. The earliest possible “Aryans” would be the Sintashta and Andronovo cultures, which descended from the Corded Ware cultures of Eastern Europe. These people exterminated the Yamnaya and Afanasievo people you are referring to. Aryan is NOT synonymous with Yamnaya/Afanasievo (Indo-European).

  5. It is just one more tool for humans to use, hoping to prove their innate superiority, and the inherent superiority of what sprang from their loins, via biological signs that justify extreme wealth concentration without the effort of creating outstanding works.

  6. chris says:

    German minority communities spread across the Balkans and much of the Baltic sea coast, becoming establishing islands of conquest, settlement, trade, and urbanization, among the generally more apathetic eastern European rural masses.

    To label the German, East European settlements as “conquests” is demonstrably false! They were never seen as such by either the Germans nor by the native population, without whose tolerance they could never have survived for hundreds of years with almost no friction. These were clearly simbiotic relationships, and recasting them differently in the aftermath of WWII is simply ahistorical. It was the native populations which, in the aftermath of the war took advantage of the vilification of Germans to appropriate their possessions.

    • Agree: jacques sheete
    • Replies: @Bob
  7. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:

    Although the idea that the Yamnaya are responsible for the big brain is interesting, it’s likely that lingering Neanderthal genes is what really gave the Northwest people their bigger brain size. As someone pointed out, Eastern and Southern Europe are closer to the original Yamnaya diaspora, and should show signs of greater Yamnaya admixture than the Northwest, which is farther away. I think it was Yamnaya mixing with Neanderthal genes that created the classic NW big brain.

    I suspect the original Yamnaya stock were much more like present-day Eastern Europeans than Western Europeans.

    • Replies: @William D. Wall
  8. Cowboy says:

    If there is even a partial biological basis to (northwest) Europeans’ psychology, which in turn underpins Western culture in all its uniqueness, then the genetic replacement and dissolution of this population through immigration will, eventually, mean the end of that psychology and culture.

    For the life of me I cannot understand why the ultra-rich elites would want to destroy Nothern Italy, where the finest Hams, Cheeses, Wines, Art, Cars, Clothing on the planet is made. I haven’t even mentioned the products of Savoy and Alsace

    It is my opinion that this is proof that this sub-saharan and arabic invasion of European homelands is not just short sighted greed. Some powerful group of people really, really hate Europeans. Who could that be now?


    [MORE]

    Who can it be knocking at my door?
    Go ‘way, don’t come ’round here no more
    Can’t you see that it’s late at night?
    I’m very tired, and I’m not feeling right
    All I wish is to be alone;
    Stay away, don’t you invade my home
    Best off if you hang outside
    Don’t come in, I’ll only run and hide

    • Replies: @Hapalong Cassidy
    , @pdxr13
  9. Karel says:

    I love authors presenting complex figures without explaining what these are about. A picture, that should have been perhaps marked as Fig. 1, is meaningless as it tells as nothing about the method used, the criteria for selecting the population sample and how the results were analysed. Furthermore, unless we know something about the error quotient of the methodology (the author probably does not know how this could determined), the conclusions are ficticious. Measuring the length of penises with a taylor tape might have easily brought more knowledge about the regional differences throughout Europe.

    • Replies: @obwandiyag
  10. Biff says:

    as one goes from northwest to southeast Europe (say, from Denmark to Turkey), developmental outcomes steadily deteriorate and corruption steadily goes up.

    That should be from very organized institutional corruption to haphazard(non-institutional or institution-lite) corruption along the northwest to southeast crescent.
    There never is any less corruption; just different.

    • Agree: byrresheim, L.K
  11. Dule says:

    How do you fit into such racial picture the Serbs of all three religious denominations, who are from the Balkans (labelled the “Southeast Europe” by the Third Reich invaders in the 1940’s)? At the same time, Serbs are witty, smart (cf. Nikola Tesla), tall (among the world best in basketball), and amply disciplined to be genuine state builders and supreme soldiers throughout the history. To make matters more confusing, although their country is mostly landlocked Serbs were the best seafarers among the Slavs, so much so that Peter the Great hired Serbs to build and run the Russian navy.

    • Replies: @j2
    , @Epigon
    , @Anonymous
  12. j2 says:

    There are many views of the population of Europe. The view in this article, though common today, is most probably false. It is agreed that were two migration waves to Europe in the last 10,000 years. Farmers from Anatolia and possibly from Caucasus migrated to Europe around 6,500 BC and started agriculture, Corded Ware culture of Yamnaya people spread to Northern Europe from the east around 2,500 BC. Apart from this agreement, the rest is not agreed.

    Not being an expert on this topic or on any other topic, I think Y-DNA hg. R1b must have been spread by early farmers, even though many ancient DNA samples have been G2a. This is for several reasons:

    Firstly, Basques have been shown to be a mixture of Western Hunter Gatherers (WHG) and Early European Farmers (EEF), as Basque males are of Y-DNA hg. R1b, it follows that one of these groups had R1b. It cannot be WHG as earlier samples show mainly I. Thus, it was EEF.

    Secondly, Sardinian peole are descendants of EEF. Theis main Y-DNA hg is I, from paleolithic hunters, second R1b and third G2a. Thus, R1b was in EEF.

    Thirdly, Yamnaya was R1a, not R1b and Corded Ware spread only to Eastern Europe. Yamnaya pastorals had bronze battle axes and horses, but horses need to graze and they could not spread far from grazing planes of East Europe. No Yamnaya conquered West Europe, so there must have stayed farming and Y-DNA R1b. The spread of Yamnaya DNA to West Europe must be because of women. Yamnaya had blond women, they were traded/taken to the West.

    From this one can conclude that Yamnaya cannot be the origin of a larger brain and a long head in Western Europe. The origin of that feature can best be WHG. The romantic view of blond and smart Arnold conquering farming populations of Europe applies only to Slavs. They were the Corded Ware culture. They did not spread all Indo-European (Aryan) languages, they spread Slavic languages. Early farmers spread Celtic languages in Western Europe, originating from Anatolia. Basques may have been male farmers from Caucasus area with a non-Indo-European language.

  13. After the Second World War, the study of race and heredity became taboo, partly as an understandable result of association with German atrocities.

    Understandable? He parrots really stupid old war propaganda and we’re supposed to take this guy seriously?

    Good grief.

    • Agree: Cowboy
  14. j2 says:
    @Dule

    “Serbs are witty, smart, tall”

    Croats and Serbs have a sizeable fraction of Dinaric sub-race. This sub-race has Y-DNA haplogroup I2. I2 is one of the original European Hunter-Gatherer haplogroups. Assuming that the big size and larger brain are from the western hunter gatherer (Y-DNA I or I2), we should expect to see this in the Dinaric sub-race.

    • Agree: Epigon
  15. Epigon says:
    @Dule

    Stop drinking the kool aid and open your eyes. Modern Serbia is a mutt nation – there are more Serb descended people outside of Serbia than in Serbia.
    While it is true that Dinaroids are the highest people in the world, not all Serbs are Dinaroids, Serbs are most definitely not all Nikola Tesla, and most importantly, the state building and proud legacy of medieval and early Modern period ones, not to mention heroism of 1804-1918 period are a distant memory.

    Take it from one Serb to another.

  16. Anonymous[723] • Disclaimer says:

    Aryans literally built the ancient world
    https://ibb.co/vvTLZNp

    In the case of india in they brought the culture that exist to this day

    Hitites another aryan tribe becoming with egypt the superpower of the bronze age ,were the one who developed iron metalurgy

    Afasanievo and tocharians were the ones who spread metalurgy, chariots , horses, …to china

    Scythians becoming the kings of the steppe teaching finno ugrics and mongols the way of life of the steppe

    In the new kingdom time in egypt all pharaoh are redhead r1b( yamnaya subclade) is the moment of maximun expansion and prosperity in the history of egypt

    Dorians invasions was the ones who brought greek language and is the moment of the start of the greek golden age

    Romans were one of the few indo european tribes italy they conquered all their neighbour to built one of the most powerfull empires of history

    Iran foundation and posterior spread all around the middle east is due to another aryan tribe sintashta.

    They were not only skilled warriors but once they asented they built the most prosperous civilization that still endure to this day so is not strange that the countries with more aryan ancestry work much better

    Hitler was right nearly about everything

  17. Bruno says:

    David Reich book about ancient DNA insists about all that was wrong in 19th century theories, but in fact, his book shows how much those were true.

    Even if the R1a and R1b people (Aryans) extinguished most Y-DNA, though the females, the DNA intake from European hunter-gatherers ans farmers is predominant. And the yamanaya themselves came from eastern hunter-gatherer and oriental farmers. So basically white people have 4 groups of ancestors if we consider a 40k period.

    • Replies: @ThreeCranes
  18. Bob says:
    @chris

    To label the German, East European settlements as “conquests” is demonstrably false! They were never seen as such by either the Germans nor by the native population, without whose tolerance they could never have survived for hundreds of years with almost no friction.

    Please, this is utterly ridiculous.

    See Northern Crusades: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Crusades

    • Replies: @chris
    , @Guillaume Durocher
  19. Anonymous[723] • Disclaimer says:
    @j2

    It has been already proved that indo europeans brought r1b to spain and of course to the basque country too
    Its old news already

    • Replies: @j2
  20. Thank you for this article. It pertains to a subject I was just recently thinking about and even commenting about elsewhere. The results of the study confirm my layman’s speculation.

  21. Sean says:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotharingia = Blue Banana, But if course that is prime territory for trade, and would be where the maximum Farewell to Alms Gregory Clark type selection was operating. Interesting that the Swiss pikemen most effective pre firearms infantry came from this region.

    http://discovermagazine.com/2010/sep/25-modern-humans-smart-why-brain-shrinking
    “When you select against aggression, you get some surprising traits that come along with it,” Wrangham says. “My suspicion is that the easiest way for natural selection to reduce aggressiveness is to favor those individuals whose brains develop relatively slowly in relation to their bodies.” When fully grown, such an animal does not display as much aggression because it has a more juvenile brain, which tends to be less aggressive than that of an adult. “This is a very easy target for natural selection,” Wrangham argues, because it probably does not depend on numerous mutations but rather on the tweaking of one or two regulatory genes that determine the timing of a whole cascade of developmental events.

    An girl found in the far north of Scotland with a very large and broad skull. From the so called Copper Age, the early wave of Indo European settlement.

    Ava descended via both parents from immigrants into Britain, possibly from what is now the Netherlands, but probably grew up within the Caithness region. Her ancestors likely arrived a few generations earlier; this is supported not only by the DNA analysis but with the style of the Beaker found in her cist (Hoole 2018, 107).

    The original Aryan Indo European Yamnaya Bell Beaker were swarthy. It is a bit of a mystery.

    • Replies: @j2
    , @Sam Coulton
  22. @Bruno

    “David Reich book about ancient DNA insists about all that was wrong in 19th century theories, but in fact, his book shows how much those were true.”

    Dead on. Here’s supporting evidence from Finley Hooper’s book Roman Realities which presents just a summary;

    “Excavation allow modern researchers to begin a lengthy story of man in Italy long before there were any Romans. As elsewhere in Europe, skeletal remains of primordial hunters of the Old Stone Age…..The far more numerous New Stone Age sites indicate how the nomadic life of hunters gave way to the more settled existence of farmers living in villages……The subsequent use of copper, bronze and iron in turn gave a new dimension to the industry and warfare of prehistoric Italy. Since metals and their use were known earlier in such places as Cyprus and Crete and in the Danubian region, it has been easy to suggest that they signaled the many changes wrought in this land by invaders.”

    Those pre-genome guys didn’t have a complete picture, but they had the basic outline right.

    • Replies: @Guillaume Durocher
  23. Prometheus

    Who are the Engineers?

  24. @Thomm

    Yes, good point. There was definitely a larger Nordic component, though, among the ancient populations of Southeastern Europe (Greeks and Romans), e.g. physical description of Alexander the Great or Augustus. That being said, on average, the South was once able to defeat the North, whether or not the elite of the South was more Nordic than the average population. Which raises a number of questions. A pro-Nordic view might be: as long as a certain percentage of the upper and middle class is Nordic, this active minority is better able to steer and instrumentalize the remainder of the population for their own benefit, as if the latter could be used as useful, pliant robots, which is (was?) necessary to achieve large organizational structures at the time? Whereas, at the time, excessively independent-minded Nordic peoples, were too stymied by excessive individualism and internecine strife to achieve empires or large structures? Just raising questions.

    • Replies: @Guillaume Durocher
  25. Anonymous[349] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dule

    It’s a fertile area right at the crossroad of many, many invasions and counter-invasions so it’s not difficult to imagine plenty of European winners settling there and contributing their genetic material. Unfortunately, it seems obvious that the Ottoman conquest and the subsequent occupation actually lowered average IQs across the Balkans.

    In short: it was a pretty good Euro Melting Pot until the mixture got tainted with non-Euro stock.

  26. j2 says:
    @Anonymous

    “It has been already proved that indo europeans brought r1b to spain and of course to the basque country too”

    About the language family we agree, but what is your time for these R1b people to have come? And what did they do for living? Early farming or pastoral Yamnaya.

    There is an argument that R1b in Europe is about 5000 years old, so brought by movement of Indo-Europeans around 3000 BC, but a migration of mostly men, who replaced or killed the original men. This is like the Kurgan hypothesis of replacement of the men pool by invading warriors, who had oxen and wheeled carriages. The main support to this hypothesis is that the diversity of R1b in Europe is quite small, much smaller than in Caucasus. But this hypothesis has a caveat: there is a known mechanism that would have reduced the diversity of Y-DNA in Early European Farmers: large scale polygamy and the resulting genetic degradation of Y-DNA. There was a collapse of early farming cultures in most places in Europe, i.e., the first farming stage failed. This collapse was associated by strongly reduced Y-DNA diversity. Large scale polygamy means that only the leading men have all women and as a result there is too much inbreeding after some generations.

    If we take this mechanism into account, R1b can have come to Europe much earlier, at the start of agriculture around 6,500 BC. I think their language would have been Indo-European, but they were not warriors, who replaced or killed the original men. They pushed the Y-DNA I and I2 to far North and to mountains, like in Balkan, to places where farmers did not go in the beginning. Later the Hg. I/I2/N men learned agriculture, so in Baltic area the original population started farming.

    If Yamnaya men had replaced the original men, we would have R1a in Spain and Basque country, but we have R1b. What would pastoral R1a people do in a forest land? And if Yamnaya did not replace the men, then how come North West Europeans have 40% of Yamnaya DNA? Must be from Yamnaya women, but they were not there originally, so they migrated to men who were in control of the land. That is not a conquest.

  27. Anonymous[296] • Disclaimer says:

    Yamna people did not conquer India.

    Neither Yamna people, nor their Bell-beaker offspring did originate the Aryan Hindu, Central Asian and Persian cultures.

    Arkaim-Sintashta culture did.

    Yamna and Bell-beaker people were of Y haplogroup R1b, just like the majority of the modern Western European males.

    Arkaim-Sintashta people were of Y haplogroup R1a, just like the majority of modern Eastern European and a substantial proportion of Central Asian males.

    Sanskrit was spoken by a R1a Y haplogroup population derived from Central Asian and South Siberian ancestry.

    Same for ancient Persian.

    These ancient populations used to be called Scythian.

    They were all mainly of haplogroup R1a.

  28. Who is this fucking clown? Hilarious shit.

    “If there is even a partial biological basis to (northwest) Europeans’ psychology, which in turn underpins Western culture in all its uniqueness, then the genetic replacement and dissolution of this population through immigration will, eventually, mean the end of that psychology and culture.”

    Imagine assigning the greatness of Western Civ to Nords like this guy does.

    I read Unz Review daily because it does deliver a lot of quality but this piece has to be one of the most embarrassingly bad ones that I’ve ever come across here.

    Congrats Monsieur Durocher.

    • Agree: tamo
    • Replies: @Catiline
  29. j2 says:
    @Sean

    “The original Aryan Indo European Yamnaya Bell Beaker were swarthy.”

    It is not so clear that Bell Beaker were Yamnaya. Actually most researchers claim it was similar to Yamnaya but R1b men, not R1a men. Yamnaya was R1a men. Bell Beaker autosomal is a mixture of WHG (hunters), EEF (early farmers) and Yamnaya, and I prefer to think that R1b was in EEF and the contribution from Yamnaya is mainly women, Mt-DNA Hg. H. Just because there is this autosomal large Yamnaya contribution and only few R1a men. It indicates there was no ghost population, Kurgan type R1b people, who created Bell Beaker. That Bell Beaker was a mixture culture that later spread to many Western countries.

    • Replies: @Sean
  30. There will be no real progress of mankind until this subject is examined thoroughly as a fact, not as a political football.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  31. Horse guy says:
    @j2

    The thing about horses never having been able to spread into NE Europe is HS [pun!]. We have historical records about Germanic tribes being very good at cavalry warfare, case in point is that Caesar used Germanic cavalry in Gaul, in fact it was his Germanic cavalry that saved his ass at Alesia. Also with Caesar, when celts repulsed his first landing on the coast of Britain, they used horse-drawn chariots to great effect. Vikings used to bring horses on their ships 800 years later. People who do not know anything about horses often totally underestimate what can be done with them, especially by people who more or less grow up on horses. Such people do not need wide open plains to develop effective ways of breeding horses and putting them to use, including militarily. When Yamnaya people invaded NE Europe, neolithic farmers probably had already cleared enough land from tree growth for the invaders to be able to ride in and continue breeding their horses. Actually you can use semi-open woodland as pasture, it suffices if rocks lie around that prevent too much undergrowth from forming. Just remove some fallen trees and voila. You can see such pastures to this day when you travel through Scandinavia.

  32. @Karel

    Thank you. Some sense for once.

  33. @Common sense Joe

    While phenotypical difference can suggest functional difference, it does not require it: e.g. noses can be different while sufficiently fulfilling their purpose.

    For the brain, I do think that you can lead yourself into misleading rabbit holes if you try to rush to conclusions: e.g. differences in neurotransmitter profile will impact cognition, and of course gut systems via the enteric nervous system.

    At some point you could potentially analyze differences in gut biota between populations, find them, and then declare major differences in fundamental personality based on that. That would, in fact, be potentially(if only partially) true, but also plainly ridiculous.

  34. padre says:

    In short, there is no question of whites being more inteligent!

    • Replies: @Aryan Racist
  35. @padre

    Padre-
    It’s intelligent, not inteligent.

  36. joe webb says:

    introducing music.

    I hear that only about 3% of White folks listen to classical music. It is my limited experience that only smart people listen to classical.

    Music literally flows thru the brain in a kind of linear way but its linearity carries with it, contrary to the Heraclitus view of the flowing river, that you cannot step into the same river twice, both the passed and the future notes are comprehended and anticipated.

    One listens attentively or not very attentively, but connects the dots, or recognizes a pattern in the music. Arguably it takes higher intelligence to comprehend a whole or a pattern, as opposed to mere noise, or semi-noise. The more complex the music, the more intelligence is needed.

    Musical talent is another factor, and is probably a sub-set of general intelligence, which means that one need not be generally very intelligent to have ability in music, but I would guess that G helps, general intelligence. Also, probably, the Idiot Savant could have musical ability as well, but that does not negate the general probability of higher IQ and Classical music comprehension.

    The natural rhythm of , say, railroad clickety-clack, or other natural phenomena, is apparent to most human brains. It takes children some time to get it, and I don’t think animals get it.

    Then, melody, chords, relationships in general….are perceived or not perceived. The primitive music of the unintelligent humans, a child can get when he or she is very young, but that child can mature and if intelligent will develop an interest in, more complex…, classical music.

    There is more There there, etc. for the ripening brain.

    Then, the more recent documentation of the “quality” of various brain parts becomes important.

    The emotional brain is wired up with the “intelligent” brain in ways that may elude us or may not, but the savagery of , say, rap music is manifest, and the Noise of otherwise not savage but just dumb music, is another phenomenon.

    It is possible that an Immigration Test could be administered wherein certain types of music would be a qualifier of a candidate. Like Rap? out you go. etc.

    Plato probably has some info on this.

    Joe Webb

    • Replies: @95Theses
  37. I am not going to contend against people who think bigger heads, means bigger brains and bigger brains equates to more intelligent thought.

    I would be concerned that upon living with the whales and elephants that avoid killing to extinction.

    God’s Speed.

    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/why-brain-size-doesnt-correlate-with-intelligence-180947627/

    ————————————–
    Content, construction and process outweigh brain size.

    https://neuroscience.stanford.edu/news/ask-neuroscientist-does-bigger-brain-make-you-smarter

    _______________

    I appreciate articles that state,”well we haven’t demonstrated x yet . . . but . . .”

    https://www.livescience.com/19692-genes-brain-size-intelligence.html

    So ultimately in this analysis the impact of brain size is only how it impacts certain brain functions. In other words, a smaller head size that does not impair brain function in any manner, would have no impact on intel or other cognitive processes. That seems obvious.

    https://www.livescience.com/19692-genes-brain-size-intelligence.html
    _______________

    Now it makes sense that the more the brain has I think it is a safe bet that to say the more likely the brain will function as intended. But when we talk about superiority, let’s be honest, very few people operate with superior intelligence and hardly representative of any group as a whole.

    However,

    https://www.thestar.com.my/news/regional/2017/01/29/why-do-asians-have-bigger-brains-than-europeans-or-africans/

  38. So the Arya came galloping into Europe and most of their big-brain genes ended up in — Scotland? You would think there would be a path of intensity from the Black Sea or wherever, but instead it looks as if it radiates from — Scotland? How did that work? I’m not a scientist, I only work for one. Someone please enlighten me.

    • Replies: @Guillaume Durocher
  39. Agent76 says:

    Jan 7, 2014 Rule from the Shadows – The Psychology of Power – Part 1

    Time to look behind the curtain. Sources, full transcript and bonus footage

    Gustave Le Bon – The Crowd (Book 1 of 3) Audio book

    Gustave Le Bon, (born May 7, 1841, Nogent-le-Rotrou, France—died Dec. 13, 1931, Marnes-la-Coquette), French social psychologist best known for his study of the psychological characteristics of crowds.

  40. So, why were Northern Europeans historically basically [email protected] in comparison with Southern & South-Eastern (Greeks, Romans, Italians,…) in past 3000 years, things beginning to change to NW European peoples’ advantage only in past 300 years?

    • Agree: tamo
  41. As a Northern European, I can only applause the unforced Nordicist bent of the author! Seriously, though, I do think that there are significant differences between Europeans, but that these are not always primarily about intelligence.

    The main difference that I can see lies in temperament. Even Northern Italians are much more feisty than Northern Europeans, and Northern Italy is not a joke region, though it, too, has stagnated in recent years.

    Northern Europeans tend to be more deliberate, more willing to delay gratification and more calm. Such a social climate is good for innovation since there is less personal prestige/ego involved, higher willingness to collaborate and greater ability to admit your fault. I would add that in our personal lives, we tend to be less materialistic and less driven by money, even if we ironically enough have more of it.

    Socially speaking, we are not very exciting and mildly autistic in the eyes of others. But we are very good att innovation in part due to our social climate which is very good at maximising the talents of the larger group. In the Nordic countries we have something called the Law of Jante, which is often castigated as a bad thing, but I also view it as a necessary outcome of said socially maximising culture which heavily de-emphasises personal prestige in favor of the larger group’s accomplishments.

    • Replies: @j2
    , @Guillaume Durocher
  42. Sean says:
    @j2

    The Yamnaya arrived in what is now Romania 5000 years ago, a genetically Yamnaya descended people called the Bell Beakers (although they did not originate that culture) arrived in Britain 4470 years ago. Ava who was 100% Bell Beaker, died 4,350 years ago, in Northern Scotland.

    To me it looks like Bell Beakers exterminated all the men in Britain and Ireland, and their male line is strongest in peripheral regions where subsequent invasions (Celts and then Anglo Saxons) penetrated least.

    That Bell Beaker was a mixture culture

    Culturally yes. The pottery called Bell Beaker was taken from its origin in what is now Spain. The people associated with Bell Beaker were as a physical type tall with round very large heads and although they cannot be easily put into any recognised subrace were closest to Dinarids than anything else by the time they arrived in Britain. Ava, who was in the early years of Bell Beaker, had an enormously broad head that was flat on the back and on the top. In the North Of Scotland there are still pockets of large round headed types, the same is true of West Coast Ireland and parts of Scandinavia. Fleure (1945) notes:

    In a few places in Sweden, Britain, and France, people have been noticed who show characteristics of the skull and face that remind one of late-Paleolithic man: these people are usually darker, in hair and eyes, than their neighbors; sometimes they even have swarthy skins.

    The DNA of Ava, proves she was surprisingly dark and it is pretty certain the Bell Beaker people who invaded Britain and Ireland were dark.

    The Homo sapiens with the biggest braincases were the Cro-Magnons, they were tall and had had barrel chests (second marker that aggression is being selected for). Cro-Magnons also had very thick skulls, although not greater than would be found in a modern well built Scotsman or Swede (Reich’s found Yamnaya ancestry in Britain greatest in Scotland. Eickstedt and then Lorenz suggested humans had self domesticated, and Bell Beakers territorial expansion and conquest extermination was fine until they ran out of land, then they would be fighting among themselves and maybe the selection was for those who could settle down to farming. In the Highlands of Scotland where the land was too poor for farming, the clans were permanently stealing each other’s cattle.

    White skin inhibits aggression Where all the blonde and red hair and white skin in Europe came from is unresolved. I could have been sexual selection for the hair and eyes, or maybe there were holdouts Mesolithics who came ready made modern north European looking and expanded out of coastal areas Finland is the exception to this of course. Peter Frost who I regard as the world authority on this subject says Eastern Hunter-Gatherers had the modern European phenotype: white skin with a diverse palette of hair and eye colors by the end of the Ice Age, and by the late Mesolithic, a high population density along the Baltic and the North Sea. There was Atlantis as well.

    • Replies: @Sam Coulton
    , @j2
  43. foobb1 says:

    Indo means India

    The largest genetic pool of Indo-European (specifically Aryan gods/poems/songs/religion) are the 500 million direct original descendants of Aryans – North Indians.

    This is greater than all European nations combined.

    Every single Aryan tribe in all history has only existed in India – there are about 200 tribes in North India today (all of whom worship the Rg Edda) and exactly zero outside India.

    Neither Iran nor Eire are Aryan names or countries and never have been. Zoroaster was the polar opposite of Aryan – the Aryan rakshas were the Zoroaster gods.

    The swastika, laltika and every other shub tika (all being Hindi words) was only and is only used in India – never any other country. The Aryan bible is the Rg Edda and according to many European/German researchers – the Mahabharata (of which the Gita is a small chapter)..

  44. The Eskimo seem to have the largest heads, but I don’t think they are too clever.

    As for the Nordics being more stoic… the Romans were once famed for being stoic (compared to the barbarians up north), and the Greeks invented Stoicism.

  45. Anon[424] • Disclaimer says:

    The northwest europeans : germans , anglos , nordics and their yankee descendents , are always praising themselves , always boasting how rich , tall , blond , they are , always putting themselves above the rest of mankind , always claiming that they are the real superior superwhites , heirs of superior races , probably they even piss champagne . They are , frankly , very boring , very very boring , and in the last decades very decandent . Go to the Valhalla superwhites with the nordic gods , stay there , and leave the rest of the humble mankind in peace .

  46. @Sean

    “The original Aryan Indo European Yamnaya Bell Beaker were swarthy. It is a bit of a mystery.”

    This is one of the most laughable oxymorons I have ever heard. Bell Beakers weren’t Yamnaya and neither were Aryan. Aryan = Indo Iranic groups like Sintashta and Andronovo (who WEREN’T swarthy).

    Anyway the Samara HG (Proto Indo European) was not swarthy and western Bell Beakers likely got their swarthy pigmentation from mixing WHG.

  47. @Sean

    The DNA of Ava, proves she was surprisingly dark and it is pretty certain the Bell Beaker people who invaded Britain and Ireland were dark.

    After mixing with black-skinned Western Hunter Gatherers, possibly.

    White skin inhibits aggression

    No it doesn’t. Don’t be hysterical.

    Atlantis

    • Replies: @Sean
  48. Catiline says:
    @Niccolo Salo

    He’s a French asshole (redundancy?) who fancies himself a racial Titan. He supported Marine Le Pen in the last election.

  49. The NUTS-2 regional map of GDP per capita is not “wealth” per capita.

    GDP is (notionally) a measure of final production; it is a flow variable.

    Wealth is a stock variable.

    Cet. par., higher income per capita enables higher savings rates, and more rapid capital accumulation and wealth creation.

    But it is a big mistake to view GDP as a decent measure of income, because it includes ‘G’ – government spending.

    That is why the NUTS-2 regions that contain national capitals, are all dark green: they are full of bureaucrats and other people who make their living sucking at the tax (and debt) teat.

    Furthermore, G is constrained by two things: taxation and the ability to raise government debt.

    The old Empires continue t have an uncanny ability to get their debt ‘away’ at very small premia to short-term rates – partly by getting their central banks to buy the debt (“monetisation” which is inflationary).

    If my next-door neighbour buys a Ferrari on credit, and can somehow nominate the entire block for the responsibility to repay the debt, then he will look like the richest man in the village. But he’s not: his apparently-high income is not productive and cannot lead to the sole source of wealth creation – additional private sector deployed capital.

    Also: does the Russian rape-fest in Germany after WWII show up in head shapes?

    My claim is that it shows up in physiognomy: I can reliably identify some East Germans as very unlikely to be Westies, because a lot of Easties have that Russo-Slavic look about them… the ratio of Russo hybrids to autochthonic kiddies born from 1945-48 would have been high, and remained above zero right through to 1994 when ЗГВ finally slung their hook. (Likewise, a half-black German aged 30 or over is generally hails from the infestation of Yanks in the area around Weisbaden and Kaiserslauten).

  50. RI says:

    It is interesting what some “guillaumes” in the third milenium will write when the tide turns again. Will they link skull forms to the then economic situation?
    This article fails to explain why my compatriots of SE descent are generally so smart and those from Scandinavian descent so slow in comparison.

  51. @TelfoedJohn

    Romans were once famed for being stoic (compared to the barbarians up north), and the Greeks invented Stoicism.

    The white-power types would have you believe it’s because at the time they were whiter than Swedes or Norwegians – as opposed to what is observed in a bunch of imagery from the time which shows Romans to have ranged from kinda-Gingers to darked-haired dark-eyed swarthy types.

    Pompeiian portrait, 1st century CE (Gingers? brown eyes, certainly);

    Ginger tinge? Brown eyes. Pompeii, 1st century CE

    Miscegenated Gyppo-Roman, Egypt, 3rd century CE (from the Fayum portraits)

    There is some truth to the idea that the pre-Greek-Dark-Ages Ancient Grecians were probably whiter than they were after the Late Bronze Age Collapse (LBAC – the collapse and destruction of pretty much everything in the Mediterranean bathtub in a mere 50 years circa 1200BCE). But that’s way before Stoicism (or Cynicism).

    The LBAC was caused by miscegenation with North African slaves, and a lack of a border wall. And Jews, of course.

    Not many people know that. (LOL)

  52. @Anon

    This is actually incorrect. Northern Europeans (east and west) display the highest levels of Yamnaya DNA with more Farmer DNA in the NW and more Hunter-Gatherer DNA in the NE. At least according to Reich’s DNA analysis, SE Europeans are mostly descended from the Farmers.

    https://www.pinterest.com/pin/49328558402138305

    • Replies: @Guillaume Durocher
    , @Anon
  53. Cyrano says:

    If the northern Europeans were such brainiacs, how come there has never been excavation of ancient Nordic archeological sites. Must be because the ground is frozen, so they couldn’t properly bury their civilization to be preserved for future archeologists. What a shame.

  54. Sean says:
    @Sam Coulton

    The Yamnaya did not have the main skin lightening gene SLC45A2, certainly not enough to explain them lightening northern Europe.

    When the Bell Beakers arrived murdering all the men and raping all the women (then killing most of them), an appearance that made the women less likely to be cruelly mistreated in the way there is abundant evidence (Suttee) that they mistreated their own women never mind conquered ones would be useful. Infants are lighter-skinned elicits. Infants need care and provisioning.

    http://www.tsuru-bird.net/a_species/macaque_stump-tailed/

    It could not possibly be anything to do with diet because the farmers had been in the same latitude for thousands of years without it becomeing common, but 5000 years ago coincident with the Yamnaya descended populations arrived in Europe, the most important skin lightening gene In Ireland and Scotland where current populations’ Yamnaya ancestry is known to be particularly high there is in addition to SLC45A2, the red hair gene which further lightens skin.

    Atlantis = Doggerland

    • Replies: @Sam Coulton
  55. Sean says:

    https://www.researchgate.net/profile/M_Prieto-Martinez/publication/322364362_The_Beaker_Phenomenon_and_the_Genomic_Transformation_of_Northwest_Europe/links/5a560b62aca272bb69631726/The-Beaker-Phenomenon-and-the-Genomic-Transformation-of-Northwest-Europe.pdf

    Our genetic time transect in Britain also allowed us to track the frequencies of alleles with known phenotypic effects. Derived alleles at rs12913832 (SLC45A2) and rs16891982 275 (HERC2/OCA2), which contribute to reduced skin and eye pigmentation in Europeans, dramatically increased in frequency during the Beaker and Bronze Age periods. Thus, the arrival of migrants associated with the Beaker Complex significantly altered the pigmentation phenotypes of British populations

    No simple mixing and nothing we know about those genes, or rather the dearth of them, in the early Bell Beakers like Ava explains how they had the aforementioned affect. The Beakers folk drove SLC45A2 to virtual fixation in northern Europe in a short time. Obviously all those without it were in evolutionary terms very quickly killed off. Of course it was selection, the hair and eye colours may have been for related but rather different reasons of straight sexual selection.

    • Replies: @Sam Coulton
  56. @Sean

    The Yamnaya did not have the main skin lightening gene SLC45A2, certainly not enough to explain them lightening northern Europe

    Whoever said they did? The eastern Yamnaya did not, but Western Yamnaya as well as Proto-Indo-Europeans from Samara DID have that gene, as well as the genes for blond hair and blue eyes.

    When the Bell Beakers arrived murdering all the men and raping all the women (then killing most of them),

    The Bell Beakers arose out of Central Europe and already carried skin lightening genes including SLC45A2. The reconstruction you posted is of a late British Bell Beaker woman who would have acquired her darker appearance from the rape of dark WHG women related to Cheddar Man, who was essentially black.

    • Replies: @j2
    , @Sean
  57. @Sean

    No simple mixing and nothing we know about those genes, or rather the dearth of them, in the early Bell Beakers like Ava explains how they had the aforementioned affect

    I know there is no point in arguing with someone who clearly isn’t a native English speaker and doesn’t even know what an “Aryan” is, but Ava is not an “early” Bell Beaker. Early Bell Beakers arose out of Central Europe and were not dark pigmented. Ava’s placement in Scotland marks a very long journey involving lots of mixing with people who were black or nearly black-skinned. There is no genomic or archaelogical evidence for any of your hair brained theories/superstitions.

  58. Anonymous[723] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    Agree but if you dont praise yourself a little specially in these era of eternal difamation against europeans in every media 24h/ d nobody will.

  59. joe webb says:
    @Anon

    read Murray’s Human Accomplishment, that puts white men at about 95% of the what has been invented in science and art. White women get about 2%, and I assume the remaining…let us see…95 minus 2 leaves 3 percent to the oriental despots.

    I recall gunpowder which they frittered away, and they did seem to beat European on canals maybe with locks, by 200 years. Of course, necessity being the mother of invention, maybe there was more necessity there for the chinks, as in horse and oxen and roads being more difficult to harness.

    etc.

    • Replies: @tamo
  60. 95Theses says:
    @joe webb

    Agreed. Although the only qualification I’d add to your observation is that much of what you say would probably exclude most modern classical music. The practice here whenever the Columbus Symphony Orchestra is performing a crowd-pleasing favorite (some work that has stood the test of time – say, Beethoven’s Ninth Symphony or Vaughan Williams’ Fantasia on a Theme by Thomas Tallis), a local composer – usually a professor of music at OSU or Capital – are scheduled first on the program in order to treat the audience to a new work they’ve created. Alas, the best is always saved for later, so one must politely endure (and politely applaud afterwards) the lesser-known, post-modern local talents.

    Unfortunately, these compositions are oftentimes so, well … bizarre, that I’d honestly prefer to hear the orchestra tuning up. If your city’s symphony orchestra is anything like ours, well, I’m sure you know just what I mean. ツ

    Here’s something else. Some years ago I began a habit of taking note of the demographics of the concertgoers and (surprise!) I could count on one hand how many blacks were in attendance. Now that I think of it, I ought to likewise begin doing a rough head count of many Hispanics/Latinos that turn out as well.

    One more thing I feel I should say is that while the Columbus Symphony isn’t very well known, it is definitely an underrated orchestra.

    Enjoyed reading your post.

    • Replies: @joe webb
  61. @Bardon Kaldian

    Who says they were “dumb” ? They were barbarians no doubt, but all peoples start their history as barbarians. Before they developed their civilizations, the ancestors of the Greeks and Romans were also barbarians. Barbarians are not necessarily stupid, they are simply “undeveloped” but may possess great potential.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
  62. Name says:

    Latvians and Lithuanians are the most Yamnaya AND European Hunter Gatherer of all Europeans.
    In fact, Czech, Poles, Ukranians, Lithuanians, Latvians, Belarussians and Russians are more Yamnaya than North and Northwestern Europe.
    Western Balkans are the tallest Europeans.

    So? Whatever basis of difference Europeans had genetically, it seems that the Civilizational era was a much more powerful selective factor for genes of whatever.
    Greeks and Romans also show evidence for Civilizational selection for traits, and their disappearance due to other Civilization selections as well.

  63. j2 says:
    @Thulean Friend

    Quite right, they say this the Law of Jante is in Sweden, Norway and Denmark, but in Finland it is double or triple and you can see it also in Poland, for instance. To the question how are you doing, you are expected to tell that you are doing very poorly. It does not exist in the USA, so maybe it is from hunter-gatherers. I always though the class societies, England and France, never had it, but they did even better than the Nordic countries.

  64. tamo says:
    @joe webb

    You are talking a lot of shit. Why don’t you do a little research before opening your idiotic honkie trap? China invented not only gunpowder but also cannon, gun, rocket(including multi-stage one), bomb, mines(both land and sea) and even hand grenade , compass, paper, movable type, weaving machine, coking- coal, cast iron, so-called Bessemer steel process, so-called Siemens steel-process, rudder, watertight compartments, multi-mast system, lee board, deep drilling technique for natural gas and oil (for your information, China used piped-in natural gas for heating and lighting since the 4th century BC, on the other hand Europe started using natural gas only in the 19th century) just to name a few. All these advanced Chinese technologies were transmitted to then technologically backward Europe. According to Robert Temple, a well-respected sinologist, more than half of the inventions that laid the foundations for the modern world BEFORE the industrial revolution came from China.

    • Agree: Igor Bundy
  65. @Franklin Ryckaert

    They got their literacy etc. somewhere around 800-1000 AD.And yet, as force for civilization, invention, progress,…they (English, Swedes, Germans) lagged behind French & especially Italians until ca. 1700.

    For almost 1000 years they, with some exceptions, slumbered & had done far, far less than “Southerners”. Progress of NW Europe is a relative recent thing, going back to 50-300 years ago.

    Who made music notations, modern adapted numerical system, all high modern culture, both artistic, technological & scientific ? Italians.
    Who had begun the age of exploration? The Portuguese and the Spaniards.

  66. j2 says:
    @Sam Coulton

    “The eastern Yamnaya did not, but Western Yamnaya as well as Proto-Indo-Europeans from Samara DID have that gene, as well as the genes for blond hair and blue eyes.”

    Sean, exceptionally, has a point. Scandinavian hunter-gatherers were a mix of WHG and ANE and ANE did have the light skin gene and many of them were blue eyed. This so called Western Yamnaya with R1b is a recent idea, partially a ghost population, they found one R1b Yamna person in Hungary but it can be a mixture, and though the Western Yamnaya is the present main stream theory, there may be other explanations. There are Yamna genes in Finland, no R1b and these genes are from ANE, most probably not from Corded Ware R1a but from N1, who also were ANE+WHG.

    • Replies: @Sean
  67. j2 says:
    @Sean

    “There was Atlantis as well.

    I guess you mean the Doggerland. They would have been Mesolithic. Have they found any human DNA from there?

  68. chris says:
    @Bob

    Listen, Bob, let me give you a little tip: when using the age-old technique of, ‘bluff’em with bullshit,’ do a little more than cite one paragraph on Wikipedia. Secondly, think a little about what the discussion is all about and don’t just blurr out your prejudices at the onset, especially when you’re completely wrong.

    Whatever some of the motivation for some of the German settlements in Eastern Europe might have been at the onset, it’s not what sustained them there in peace for 800 years. Many of these communities were invited there, to spurr development, others to create lines of defense against invading hordes from the east. There they lived in pesce with the local populations until the age of Communism.

  69. @j2

    Interesting post. Indeed, I don’t know how much of northwestern Europeans’ characteristics are due to Western Hunter Gather as opposed to Yamnaya/Indo-European descent. Probably a mixture of both.

  70. @Bob

    Thanks for point this out. Are people now ashamed of their conquests?

    • Replies: @chris
    , @todurocher
  71. @ThreeCranes

    Those pre-genome guys didn’t have a complete picture, but they had the basic outline right.

    I agree. Of course early science makes mistakes (if it didn’t, it wouldn’t be science). And of course these claims got politicized in an age of hysterical nationalism and mass politics. But, they were basically right about a lot of things, remarkably so given the means at their disposal. In particular, wherever the post-WW2 culture is most politicized and emphatic in its claims, particularly on race, we can generally say it is wrong and the old-fashioned folks were much closer to the truth.

  72. @Quintus Sertorius

    Great post!

    Generally speaking, I would say a successful ancient state mostly just needs a motivated, competent, and solidary elite. The average level of the masses, who are mostly stuck farming in the countryside, is not so relevant. So indeed, this would fit with the Nordicist model of ancient accomplishment (which I am not committed to, I have not seen conclusive evidence either way).

    The backwardness of the ancient Nords is to my mind easy to understand: low population density, harsh climate, poor communications. I don’t think excess individualism was a factor yet. And after all, these barbarians were able to invade and conquer the southerners on a fairly regular basis, from the Celts to the Vikings..

  73. @Red Pill Angel

    Northwest Europeans’ genetic uniqueness could be due to either Hunter-Gatherer or Indo-European ancestry. However, as the native populations were sparse in northern Europe, this meant they could more easily be replaced by the Indo-European invaders. Whereas, where there are already large settled populations (as in the Balkans with its European Farmers), conquering invaders often do not have such a large genetic impact.

  74. @Thulean Friend

    I agree the difference between Nords and Meds is primarily temperamental, although there are apparently some IQ differences.

    In general, Meds tend to be more down to earth and practical. Nords tend to be more “principled,” “autistic,” guilty, etc. They seem to be the type of human most sensitive to “values,” to their cultural programing, hence the violent ideological swings of northern European history. Hence also all those northern European nice-guys and obnoxious missionaries going to the farthest reaches of Africa (we have to *spread* those values to the unenlightened!).

    What’s more, we even see the same development pattern wherever different European groups spread outside of Europe. e.g. Anglo/Nordic Anglo-Canada and northern U.S., Angl0-Dutch South Africa, French Québec, Spanish-Italian/Amerindian Argentina..

  75. @Anon

    And yet, you’ll notice, millions want to move to northwest Europe and to northwest European-derived societies (America, Australia..). Go figure..

  76. @Thomm

    The Bronze Age got to Northwestern Europe much, much later than it got to Southeastern Europe.

    The Bronze Age didn’t even get to the Americas until 1492.

  77. @Kratoklastes


    (Likewise, a half-black German aged 30 or over is generally hails from the infestation of Yanks in the area around Weisbaden and Kaiserslauten).

    It started when the rotten French used primitive Africans troops to occupy Germany after WWI resulting in the so-called the Rhineland Bastards(Rheinlandbastarde).

    Again after WWII thousands of mulattoes were born after the arrival of negro GIs like in Britain where they also left loads of half castes. In Germany many of these were wisely given up for adoption to childless blacks back in Amerimuttland.

    A number of more recent mongrels are also the progeny of pure Africans from Africa like Charles Huber the former MP whose father was Senegalese.

  78. Sean says:
    @Sam Coulton

    he Bell Beakers arose out of Central Europe and already carried skin lightening genes including SLC45A2. The reconstruction you posted is of a late British Bell Beaker woman who would have acquired her darker appearance from the rape of dark WHG women related to Cheddar Man, who was essentially black.

    Doubtful if enough Cheddar females were still about in Neolithic, in any case they would have not been looked after after and taken as wives, that is the whole point The DNA testing of Ava indicates was 100% Bell Beaker. The Bell Beakers were too dark to lighten Britain by mixing. Modern young women get tans to look sexy, clearly white skin is for something else.

  79. Sean says:
    @j2

    Try and be less of a cookbook reductionist taking everything down to its most basic ingredients inn their original proportions . The key is understanding is not in determining the ingredients of the mix. That won’t tell you anything.

    White model Emma Hallberg

    Consider: why is this look now (when women are less worried about mating for life) so popular among young women. Why did the gene with the most effect for having it naturally (ancestral SLC45A2), get not merely diluted, but virtually eliminated from Europe as soon as the Indo Europeans arrived?

    • Replies: @Wally
  80. j2 says:

    “Consider: why is this look now (when women are less worried about mating for life) so popular among young women. Why did the gene with the most effect for having it naturally (ancestral SLC45A2), get not merely diluted, but virtually eliminated from Europe as soon as the Indo Europeans arrived?”

    I do not understand your question. I cannot identify the origins of the woman in the photo. Do you mean that the woman in the photo has naturally darker skin and has lightened it? Or that she has naturally light skin and has tanned it? Are the lips natural, or, as they look like, botoks injections or silicon. And what do you mean that SLC45A2, the light skin gene that is so far the dominant one in Europe, was virtually eliminated from Europe around 2,500 BC? Because I do not think it was virtually eliminated.

    Why is this look so popular among young women? It is not popular where I have lived and not considered the most beautiful looks by the majority of white women. Some young women may follow fashion and make such a look, but not here, probably in the USA. For me she simply looks very foreign and the mouth is too puffy.

  81. For all the accomplishments of conan the barbarians, the first democracies were established by the southern darker races who were destroyed for their independence and individuality. The barbarians gave us racism and slavery with their extra large heads. After destroying all the advanced enlightened races, they setup the beginning of the shitpit we live in today.

    • Replies: @Guillaume Durocher
  82. Anon[723] • Disclaimer says:
    @tamo

    you talk like a derangered little rat , of course you would choose the authour that put the weight of the acomplishment in the east but historiografy is pretty consistant with murratys book if you not only look at the current western world but with the acomplishment of the ancient graeco roman world.
    Psyentific method, phylosophy , math, proto modern literature and art , olympic sports , hundred of technological invention, literacy rate over 15% while in china was under 1% …..
    is true that china brought a lot of technological invention to the west but the same is true in reverse : metalurgy, chariots , horse….. where introduced in western china by afanasevo and tocharian indo european tribes , even the name of wheel is the same in PIE and ancient sino tibetan.

    Wheel

    Thats for not talking about of the famous terracote statues that were at the vey least influenced influenced by greeks scultors living in the graco bactran kingdom near to chinese borders

    https://www.google.es/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/science/2016/oct/12/ancient-greeks-may-have-inspired-china-terracotta-army-sculptors-ancient-dna

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @tamo
  83. @tamo

    I agree with tamo that the western barbarians stole pretty much everything and then they turned into the most sadistic monstrous conquerors unlike anything we have seen. Now keep blowing their horns about so called discovering things that were discovered or invented thousands of years before them. Heck they didn’t even have indoor toilets until recently while it was there in mohen jo daro 5000 years ago. Now they wear funny klown outfits with a piece of bib and an over coat and act civilised.

    Remember Sun Tao? thats taught in all modern military academies? written by some chinese guy 2000 years ago. In india they have native medicines which are more effective than most modern medicines and have been in use for thousands of years. While surgery and invasive process have advanced a lot every year, a lot of that advancement is due to a world wide effort in cooperation and research even if the majority of it is done in like the US which is full of foreigners anyway. The west like the japanese is very good at taking someone else’s invention and taking it up a notch.. Just like taking some guys idea on stealth research and now uses it to create planes that cannot be seen.. And aint that why the west ‘invented’ everything? to steal and call it your own..

    • Agree: tamo
    • Replies: @joe webb
  84. @Igor Bundy

    The Greeks were a paradigmatic Indo-European people: they invaded what is today Greece, and much of the rest of the ancient Mediterranean. They enslaved, expulsed, exterminated, or intermarried with the local peoples. This was as true of Sparta as for Athens. They considered themselves superior to other peoples and a happy mean between northern barbarism and Asiatic slavishness. The Greek polis was a product of the citizen-soldiers, of a martial, patriarchal, and exclusionary culture, which owed much to our common Indo-European heritage, including the “barbaric” aspect, so beautifully preserved and expressed in Homer.

    • Replies: @joe webb
  85. Wally says:
    @Thomm

    Indeed, one of Durocher’s biggest flaws is this:

    “After the Second World War, the study of race and heredity became taboo, partly as an understandable result of association with German atrocities.”

    – What “German atrocities” were those?
    The laughable, juvenile, & unproven Zionist fantasies about Mengele?
    Notice the lack of proof.

    If one starts with a false assumption, the rest that follows will necessarily be tainted.
    Generally called ‘garbage in, garbage out’.

  86. Wally says:
    @Sean

    Fans thought Instagram’s Emma Hallberg was black. Now she’s accused of ‘blackfishing’
    https://www.kansascity.com/entertainment/article222235360.html

  87. Anonymous[175] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    metalurgy, chariots , horse….. where introduced in western china by afanasevo and tocharian indo european tribes , even the name of wheel is the same in PIE and ancient sino tibetan.

  88. chris says:
    @Guillaume Durocher

    Dear Guillaume, I am 0% German, so my comments do not apply to me nor to any of ‘my people.’ I’m simply noting my very well founded understanding of how these East European German communities lived with their hosts for 800 years. These relationships were never adverserial. Again, referring to these relationships as ‘conquests’ is ahistorical; please confer with appropriate historical documents.

    • Replies: @Guillaume Durocher
  89. @TelfoedJohn

    I believe the Eskimos have the highest IQs of any hunter-gatherers. Experience with agriculture combined with winters/predictable seasons explains the vast majority of IQ differences.

  90. tamo says:
    @Anon

    You are only good at engaging in cherry-picking and telling half-truths. For your information, so-called Indo-Europeans NEVER created the humanity’s ORIGINAL civilizations such as Mesopotamian, Egyptian, ORIGINAL Indus Valley, China’s Yellow River Valley. All these ORIGINAL civilizations were created by NON Indo-European people. As you can see, the Indo-Europeans were LATE comers. I want to correct your wrong views on the implications of Tarim caucasians for China. The oldest Tarim mummies were carbon-dated about 1800 BC. China started to make bronze objects at around 3000 BC during Majiayao Culture. A bronze-cast knife made at about 3000 BC and many other bronze artifacts were found in north west China. Also it was proven there were NO BRONZES in Tarim area until 1600 BC. It’s more likely that Tarim basin caucasians got their bronze making technology from China or from other cultures further in the west. The identity of these caucasians HAS NOT been solved CONCLUSIVELY. Some scholars say these caucasians were Indo-European speaking Tocharians but other scholars dispute that. Recently bloomery -produced iron pieces dated to 1400 BC were found in China. That means China started making iron about 300 years before Europe did. (to put this in contest, both Mesopotamia and India began producing iron at around 4000 BC and Egypt at around 1000 BC). Nobody CONCLUSIVELY knows where the wheel originated first. But the wheel did originate at about 3500 BC. The prime candidates for the origin of the wheel in the form of potter’s wheel are China, Mesopotamia, Egypt, India and southern Europe. Also the origin of WHEELED vehicle presents the same problem . Mainline scholars think the wheeled vehicle originated simultaneously in Mesopotamia, south Caucasus, eastern Europe at about 3500 BC. According to sinologist Antony Barbieri-Low, China had already had wheeled vehicle at 2000 BC. ( recently parts of a CHARIOT wheel hub and remains of tracks of a wheeled vehicle dated to 2000 BC were found in China). That’s abut 200 years BEFORE the earliest Tarim caucasians arrived in 1800 BC. But I do acknowledge that the Chinese chariot technology could have been from Indo -European cultures in southern Caucasus or Central Asia many centuries before the arrival of Tarim caucasians. So in conclusion, yes, China got it’s chariot technology and horse-breeding from Indo-Euiropeans before the Tarim caucasians’ arrival. But in case of bronze technology, A big NO, because China started making bronzes at the same time as the other ORIGINAL civilizations at around 3000 BC. It’s more likely the Tarim caucasians got their bronze technlogy from China that started making bronzes in about 3000 BC or some other cultures further in the west. Ancient Chinese excelled in not only technology but also astronomy, mathematics, medicine, optics, acoustics, magnetism, philosophy, liberal arts. You just remember that such ancient Chinese masterpieces as I Ching, The Art of War, Tao Te Ching are well-received by intellectuals all over the world.

    [MORE]

    You should remember that the ancient Greek astronomy, mathematics, philosophy, medicine, etc were HEAVILY INFLUENCED by the Babylonian civilization. Also Greek myths and it’s religion were HEAVILY INFLUENCED by both Mesopotamian and Egyptian civilizations. Even the Greek alphabet is based on the Phoenician alphabet. You can see the Greeks were the BIGGEST COPYCATS in the ancient world. On the other hand, the ANCIENT Chinese civilization was born INDEPENDENTLY of other civilizations. By the 13th century BC, China already had a 365.25 day calendar. There is no evidence either Mycenaean Greek or Minoan civilization had a calendar. Also from the 13th century BC on, ancient Chinese kept accurate records of solar and lunar eclipses long before the ancient Greeks did. In mathematics, ancient Greeks achieved a high degree of excellence in geometry but because of their LOUSY number systems based on their alphabet, they couldn’t develop algebra. Greeks began exploring algebra only in the 3rd century AD. On the other hand, ancient Chinese had the most sophisticated number system in the ancient world( 14th century BC), POSITIONAL decimal system ( 14th century BC), place for zero (4th century BC), negative numbers(2nd century BC),decimal fractions (1st century BC), using algebra for geometry(3rd century AD), a refined value of pi( 3rd century AD), etc. The ancient Greeks didn’t have all these mathematical things. As a matter of fact, European mathematicians came in contact with all these advanced Chinese mathematical achievements ONLY in the Middle Ages.

    Ancient China influenced the Greco- Roman civilization more than vice versa. Ancient Romans were crazy about Chinese silk. Also according to Visy Zsolt, a Hungarian professor with the Department of Ancient History and Archaeology of the University of Pecs in Hungary, the influence of Chinese Great Wall on Roman Limes was certain. Also ancient Chinese jade objects were found in one of the archaeological sites of the ancient Troy. According to Joseph Needham, the most- respected sinologists of all time, the Greek crossbow might have been influenced by the older Chinese crossbow. Also the quadriga was invented in China about the 11 century BC and the technology was transmitted to ancient Greece. Regarding the Chinese influence on Greco-Bactrain kingdom, here is what Wikipedia says “the Greco-Bactrians were the first in the world to issue cupro-nickel (75/25 ratio) coins,[23] an alloy technology only known by the Chinese at the time under the name “White copper” (some weapons from the Warring States period were in copper-nickel alloy).[24] The practice of exporting Chinese metals, in particular iron, for trade is attested around that period”. “The Han Dynasty explorer and ambassador Zhang Qian visited Bactria in 126 BC, and reported the presence of Chinese products in the Bactrian markets:

    “When I was in Bactria (Daxia)”, Zhang Qian reported, “I saw bamboo canes from Qiong and cloth made in the province of Shu (territories of southwestern China)”. According to ScienceAlert that is a leading international scientific publisher dedicated to publish peer-reviewed significant research work, the claims of some foreign observers that some of Chinese Terra Cotta objects of Emperor Qin’s tomb were influenced by ancient Greece, CAN NOT be backed by INDISPUTABLE science evidence. They are all SPECULATIONS .

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  91. @tamo

    All these advanced Chinese technologies were transmitted to then technologically backward Europe. According to Robert Temple, a well-respected sinologist, more than half of the inventions that laid the foundations for the modern world BEFORE the industrial revolution came from China.

    There is a strong case to be made that the Yangtze river delta was the most prosperous region of the world during the Late Middle Ages. I’m also aware that the Chinese did invent a lot of technologically impressive stuff.

    Still, it is worth pointing out that if the notion that China was this supremely advanced civilisation and Europe was such a pathetic backwater as these narratives would have you believe, then how come the industrial revolution didn’t start in China?

    As Stephen Broadberry has shown in a recent paper, the divergence of the richest parts of Europe started much earlier from the richest parts of China than the ‘California school’ has argued, namely England and the Netherlands. It’s these parts of Europe that began the industrial development the earliest, especially England of course.

    The fact remains that until the European-derived industrial revolution, World per capita income was essentially flat (as seen in Maddison database) and in line with total population. It was only after the industrial revolution that per capita income started to diverge in a significant way in Europe. To ascribe this revolution to China is a travesty. China had the intellectual firepower to do it, but failed for other reasons. Which is another (interesting) discussion.

    P.S. Emma Hallberg is unlikely to be 100% ethnically Swedish. My guess is that she probably had a Swedish father who race-mixed with a darker woman who didn’t come from Sweden. Maybe even a Greek or someone from Balkan who was quite dark.

    P.P.S. The IQ map Durocher showed is old (2014 and based on even older data). A lot of those scores are iffy. PISA test scores are more up-to-date and more thorough. They are also strongly correlated with IQ, much more so than other tests such as TIMMS etc.

    • Replies: @tamo
    , @Guillaume Durocher
  92. Anon[236] • Disclaimer says:
    @William D. Wall

    But the most important point here is that frequency of Neanderthal DNA increases as you head into northwest Europe. That’s why I suspect Neanderthal genes of being the cause of the bigger brain size.

  93. I’m not holding my breath for Visegrad or the Baltic’s to further narrow the gap. Being in the EU is a curse for these countries, whose smart fractions have been bled off to IQ shredding cities in Germany and the UK.

  94. tamo says:
    @Thulean Friend

    If the definition of an industrial revolution is mechanization and mass production, then it also happened in the 11th century Song dynasty in China . But this industrial revolution unlike the late 18th century European industrial revolution which was based on POWERFUL GAME-CHANGING steam engine, had been only based on water power turning waterwheels. I’m not belittling the enormous technological and scientific achievements the West accomplished since the Industrial Revolution from which the mankind has benefited GREATLY. According to Kenneth Pomeranz, in the middle of the 18th century, the living standards of Yangtze River delta is comparable to the richest part of Europe namely, England. Europe overtook China in physics including astronomy and mathematics in the 17th century but China was still ahead of Europe in technology until about 1770. The 1781 patenting of James Watt’s steam engine that unlike the previous relatively -primitive steam engines mainly used pumping excessive water out of mines, could run machines at factories. That made all the difference. At this point, Europe left China in the dust. But such Chinese inventions as blast furnace, cast iron, coking-coal, so-called Bessemer Steel Process, weaving machines on which such British textile machines as spring jenny, lying shuttle were based, were CRITICAL to the British industrial revolution. Also before the industrial Revolution, there was a disconnect between science and technology. Nascent science theories couldn’t contribute to new technologies due to pretty inferior experimental devices that couldn’t be used for testing science theories with confidence. Up to the Industrial Revolution, it was the technicians and craftsmen that advanced technology with trial and error, not Cambridge scientists. But with the coming of better scientific experimental devices as a result of the ongoing industrial revolution in the 19th century, science finally contributed to new technologies. A lot of people think it’s the science that contributed to advancement of technology. But it was the other way around at the first stage of the Industrial Revolution. The West has so far dominated from the first industrial revolution of the steam engine through the second industrial revolution of electricity, electronic communication, internal combustion engine and through the third industrial revolution of the computer and internet. But now China has a good chance it will be the dominant forth industrial revolution player of AI, quantum technology, etc. by the middle of this century after playing catch-up since the first Industrial Revolution. You believe what you want to believe such as the traditional narrative. But I will believe the revisionist narrative which I find more convincing to me. Why did China go down? Why is the West (both America and Europe) going down now ?

  95. Anonymous[723] • Disclaimer says:
    @tamo

    Bronze technology came into China from the steppe is clear as the day when you take into acount that the first chinese metalurgy arose in afanasevo borders in western china instead of the eastern part asociatee with the early chinese civilization, the pottery from Gansu is IDENTICAL to the ones that indo europeans developed

    Iron working similarly appears to have come from the steppe and introduced again for the western part instead of the core of chinese civilization

    Kj

    Even there are Indo-European style chariot burials in the Shang royal burial grounds. Either the Shang rulers were of Indo-European origin, or partly of Indo-European origin and retained many elements of Indo-European culture, or were non-Indo-European but adopted many elements of Indo-European culture. The first of these three possibilities would be the case if the Shang were conquering invaders. The second could arise from a non-Indo-European ruling group allying with Indo-European chariot warriors (and adopting their military technology, inter-marrying, etc.). The linguistic evidence suggests that these two possibilities are more likely than the 3rd. (Note that the Tang brought in many Turkic elements, and inter-married with Turkic peoples; having a similar thing happen with the Shang is quite plausible.)

    It doesn’t follow that modern Chinese are unrelated to them, thought

    Second aryans truly built the ancient world over the ruins of the old one creating civilization that still that still endure to this day while the rest are nothing more than dust of history

    Third
    graeco roman owe very little to the middle east it was the aryans tribes ( dorians , mycenians latins …) the ones who brough the language, gods, patriachy….. that funded the graeco roman world soul and created the first protomodern societies while egypt was thinking in magical terms greeks discarded simplistic method and the easy answers provided by goods and were the first to think in rational terms, literature about war and honour , psyentific method, phylosophy, politics, democracy, literacy rate over 15% while in egypt was under 1%…. like i said earlier even if some technogical advancement were imported the graeco roman soul is as much indebted to china as is to the middle east .
    And a little more thing where can i speak with authority PHOENICIAN is a mycenian language .

    I have seen many times people who claimed “muh Europeans never invented a writing independently, they received it from the east, even africans in Nigeria developed Nsibidi independently lol”

    Except we DID invent a script independently, and it was
    1. Better than the Phoenician alphabet(and probably PRECEDED IT)
    2. Very sophisticated

    Why?

    1. Linear B translation is noticeably shorter than the proto-Hebrew original
    2. Linear B has an amazing capacity to shortcut text by telescoping it into the much smaller discrete elements, logograms, ideograms and supersyllabograms, this Linear B syllabary preceded both the Phoenician and Paleo-Hebrew alphabet!!!

    View post on imgur.com

    Phoenician > Linear B Translation of the Gezer Agricultural calendar

    *Linear B translation is noticeably shorter than the proto-Hebrew original

    *Linear B’s amazing capacity to shortcut text by telescoping it into the much smaller discrete elements, logograms, ideograms and supersyllabograms, this Linear B syllabary preceded both the Phoenician and Paleo-Hebrew alphabet.

    *Linear B is also unable to account for the presence of final or ultimate consonants, which are extremely common in ancient Greek i.e keda(LB) = cedar(GK)

    View post on imgur.com

    The Linear B word for Give is DI-DO , the Phoenician word is תת
    which is simply DI-DO without vowels, or DD/תת.

    DI DO MI “I Give” תת – י
    DI DO SI “You Give” תת – תה
    DI DO ME “We Give” תת – נו
    DI DO SI “She Gives” תת – וֹת

    The Linear B word for gold is KU RU SO > ח ר ץ.

    Phoenician is a Mycenaean Language, only the polical correctness in academia dosnt let the truth spread like it should .

    Enought for today , maybe tomorrow we could keep discursing

    • Replies: @tamo
  96. @chris

    Thanks for your comments. I was not implying that the entirety of the German presence was due to conquest. In some cases, it was a matter of conquest, as in East Prussia and the wider Baltic region.

  97. @Thulean Friend

    Thanks for the comment! Do you have a more up-to-date map or table?

  98. joe webb says:
    @95Theses

    thanks, your comment on more recently composed ‘classical’ …it is worth noting that Modernism, 99% is generally junk and mostly jewish in origin, also weaseled its way into classical with 12-tone discord, Jewish of course. Berg and the other guy, who I think said somewhere his intent was to destroy White classical music.

    It was and is intended to destroy classical music. Look at Klezmer music. more junk by jews.

    The number of good Jewish composers is limited to about Copland and Barber.

    Bernstein is second rate, but his pop stuff is ok. Gershwin is third rate, and to me the Mendelsohn is basically boring but traditionally white anyway.

    I must have overlooked somebody …sorry. When I was still vaguely on the intellectual left, I tried to read all the structuralist and deconstructionist stuff and only figured it was junk and more junk.

    Then I found out why it was junk, and much worse…it was and is Jewish. I wish I could call it murder -suicide, but it is just murder.

    Joe Webb

  99. joe webb says:
    @Guillaume Durocher

    well, if you look at the images from Rome and the Greeck bust, for example of Pericles, he looks like , well, me, and I am Swedish and English. Of course it could be just a Roman product. dunno

    my guess is that the blond hair and blue eyes was pretty common in antiquity. My other guess is that the blondes one sees in Renaissance Art is due to the Germanic tribes’ invasion of Rome and Southern Europe after the 6th C. Look at Spain’s blondes today…still there cuz of the Germanic Tribes and more guesses…the Arabs could not get many blonde brides.

    Or blonde hair is dominant, which I doubt.

    Joe Webb

  100. joe webb says:
    @Igor Bundy

    “I agree with tamo that the western barbarians stole pretty much everything and then they turned into the most sadistic monstrous conquerors unlike anything we have seen”

    unlike what we have seen….? grammar my friend.

    I just finished Herodotus and Thucidides and Victor Davis Hanson’s A War Like No Other, about the Pel. War, alls 27 years of it, plus.

    Hanson is a military historian and a classicist. He is a race traitor, but writes a good book. I throw that in to establish that he is probably not a White Nationalist…Greece and Rome….etc. and probably not a White Supremacist, though he looks like an Aryan, every inch of him…Scandinavian obviously…Hanson

    My impression from these books is that Everybody was invading everybody. The mode of production was Theft generally. Capitalism had not been discovered.

    The Greeks and the Romans , despite a lousy mode of production, nevertheless still figured out how to do elections and free speech.

    Nobody, no other race, etc. has done the same.

    Whtie Guys R Very/Are Very Bad…per all you Turd Worlders.

    Joe Webb

  101. Patrick says:

    I am a French American and most of my ancestors are swarthyish and have dark hair but some have blond hair, and I came out with blond hair and blue eyes. Before I continue further I want to say I reject political anti-semitism, so want to distance myself from anti-semites and white nationalists. I respect racial diversity but believe in the right of individuals and private organizations to preserve certain genetics and bloodlines, I also respect peoples right to personal prejudice but I believe prejudice should never enter the realm of politics. Now thats out of the way.

    Even though I look nordic I actually prefer mediterranean and latin culture. And I identify with mediterranean culture. I do find this essay fascinating though. Larger frontal lobes may correlate with more frontal lobe activity but you can also have complexity within frontal lobes not as big as everyone else’s. It’s just strange for me because physically I look nordic but emotionally I don’t identify with nordic culture, and thats probably related to the fact most my ancestors were not nordic though of course some were.

    I don’t believe that nordics are responsible for mediterranean classical civilization as some allege, I would actually attribute classical civilization to a melting pots of European racial types equally contributing, which is also what I attribute French civilization to. And among those racial types contributing to classical culture, Nordics were one type, but only one type among other equal contributors.

    Nordic culture is part of French heritage but it is simply one culture among other equal European cultures, and this is not to say non-European cultures are inferior, its just to say that French culture in its traditions is European.

  102. pdxr13 says:
    @Cowboy

    A subset of humanity who has a higher iq but lacks the sociable cooperation of the ice people. They are too smart at least by half to not realize that Western Northern Europeans are the most friendly accepting cooperative people in ths world to outsiders like themselves, and that the destruction of the biological basis of Westernciv will soonenough lead non israeli Jews back to near exterminafion or subcitizen near slavery. There are very few individuals doing this plan, who are mostly highiq psychopathswith lots of concentrated wealth, but there are lots of people who know and understand, with varying degrees of approval, and do nothing to stop or expose it.

  103. Nordocuck says:

    The actual evidence so far, compared to the white nationalist/Nordicist inaccuracies being spouted here:

    1) Proto-Indo-Europeans were brunet and high in Ancient North Eurasian, a population equally related to Tajiks as the most ANE Northeastern Europeans, who stole wives from blond northeastern European farmers of heavy hunter-gatherer ancestry while mostly killing the blond men. This population spread to the rest of Northern and Western Europe and that’s how the “Nordic” phenotype came about.

    2) Ancient Greeks and Romans were hardcore southern European populations with the highest component of their ancestry being Anatolian Neolithic and a minority of steppe-related ancestry in them. We already have evidence of that, actual ancient DNA. If you’re still hoping that some wild evidence will come out in favor of a “Nordic elite”, I have a few bridges in Antarctica to sell you but I’m sure your audience is already buying your fake skepticism of the current evidence.

    3) The creation of Europe is an Anatolian Neolithic affair from ancient Greece and Rome to medieval Western Europe. Even the French and the English, not to speak of the southern European medieval Tuscans and northern Italians or the Iberians who opened up the exploration of the New World, are the Northern European populations with the most Anatolian Neolithic ancestry and the least steppe ancestry.

    4) We all know what happened when the Romans took the fight to the Celts or when the Byzantines took the fight to the Goths, a population that tried to exploit the empire and only succeeded due to a lucky confluence of factors, or the multiple failed attempts of the Varangians to conquer Constantinople which ended with them serving as mercenaries. Oh right, the Goths couldn’t even stand up to the Arabs, not unlike today. This last counterpoint is equivalent to the stupid “the northerners could conquer” point expressed in the piece, not to be taken too seriously or literally. 😉

    • Replies: @Patrick
    , @Anon
  104. Billy says:

    I’m just a random nobody minority that likes to see what White Nationalists (whom I empathize) and White Supremacists are talking about, and one thing I find curious is how enthralled some are by Nordicism. Even the non-Nordics and overall “Euro-mutts” have this fantastical Nordic vision, which is really a channeling of Hitlerism (can’t even call it Nazism because it goes beyond the politic surrounding Germanic Nordicism, but pure obsession with what’s believed to be Aryan).

    It’s funny how a certain group of whites have committed to reducing anything good about white people to Nordics. Perhaps even funnier, is that if anything should elicit fantasy it would be just what the hell are the Basque.

  105. Billy says:

    I’m just a random nobody minority that likes to see what White Nationalists (whom I empathize) and White Supremacists are talking about, and one thing I find curious is how enthralled some are by Nordicism. Even the non-Nordics and overall “Euro-mutts” have this fantastical Nordic vision, which is really a channeling of Hitlerism (can’t even call it Nazism because it goes beyond the politic surrounding Germanic Nordicism, but pure obsession with what’s believed to be Aryan – and Hitlerism because he’s the closet to the ideology that most are familiar with).

    It’s funny how a certain group of whites have committed to reducing anything good about white people to Nordics. Perhaps even funnier, is that if anything should elicit fantasy it would be just what the hell are the Basque.

    • Replies: @j2
  106. Patrick says:
    @Nordocuck

    Nordocuck you raise some points that I may be inclined to agree with, but the fact you have a username that expresses hostility to nordic europeans makes me question whether the conclusions you have arrived at are objective. I don’t think nordic men are cucks as your name implies, on the other hand I also oppose a nordic supremacist interpretation of european history. While ancient Greece does have accounts of some blond haired people, I don’t think the nordics were the sole members of the elite class. Like everywhere some nordics are elite and some are peasants. Most nordics throughout history have been peasants. And I imagine in ancient Greece their elite was mainly non-nordics, but nordics probably made a contribution to the culture along with other types.

    But I do think nordic supremacists have been somewhat obnoxious to latin and mediterranean Europeans. I have blond hair but am of latin European heritage, French. Most my ancestors were olive skinned. I am definitely not a nordic even though I am blond and have blue eyes.

    I am of the opinion classical civilization and their elite classes comprised a number of european racial types, some of whom were nordic types, but I don’t believe the nordic type made a disproportionate contribution as nordic supremacists would allege. I advocate the concept of a European identity. Nordic vs Mediterranean strife is not a good idea, we are all Europeans. If nordics were responsible for classical civilization they would have developed classical civilization in northern europe, they didn’t. So clearly classical civilization was the result of the contributions of a variety of European racial types working together.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Nordo De Cuck
  107. tamo says:
    @Anonymous

    Again, you are engaging in telling half-truths and wild speculations and outright lies. Chinese first produced bronze objects INDEPENDENTLY at around 3000 BC. A bronze-cast knife and many other bronze objects of the time period were found in Gansu area ( next to Xinjang in Tarim Basin ) in the northwest China and many other bronze objects were produced INDIGENOUSLY until about 2000 BC WITHOUT outside influence. All the Chinese bronzes in this time period were TIN bronzes. On the other hand, almost all the bronzes used in Mesopotamia, Central Asia, southern Siberia were ARSENIC bronzes using ARSENIC copper. But China also produced some arsenic bronzes after coming into contact with steppe cultures starting around 2000 BC. I want you to remember that Xinjiang in Tarim Basin DID NOT have metal, let alone bronzes BEFORE 2000 BC. The 3000 BC time period is when all the major civilizations started using bronzes. According to Encyclopedia Britanica, “in Greece and China, for instance, the Bronze Age began before 3000 BCE, whereas in Britain it did not start until about 1900 BCE”. Also China produced copper and brass objects at around 4000 BC. On the other hand, Afanasevo culture didn’t use metals until 3000 BC. Also there was no Indo-European culture in central Asia or southern Siberia that produced bronzes at 3000 BC. But starting around 2000 BC, the bronze technologies from the STEPPE cultures of southern Siberia and other places in the west trickled into China. Yes, after about 1000 years of INDEPENDENT bronze making , around 200o BC, China incorporated the foreign bronze technologies and styles for some of it’s bronzes. So you are WRONG to say that China got the bronze technology from foreign cultures AT THE BEGINNING of it’s bronze culture. I’m glad you mentioned the pottery from Gansu. Beginning around 2000 BC, It was a two -way transmission. The bronze technology went to China from the west and on the other hand, the pottery technology,specially PAINTED POTTERY technology from Gansu went to the west. So next time when you see PAINTED GREEK pottery, you should thank China for that. In 2008, bloomery -produced iron pieces were found. There were carbon-dated to 1400 BC. It looks like the iron age in China occurred at the same time as the other major civilizations contrary to the previous belief of late beginning of iron age in China. Also I want to add that the Indo- European Saka culture was the first group in central Asia to have iron sometime between 1000 BC and 700 BC. So it might be the Saka got their iron technology from China. You make me laugh because you shamelessly deny the fact that ancient Greece was so much influenced by both Babylonia and Egypt. Specially the Babylonian influences on Greek astronomy, math, medicine, philosophy were HUMONGOUS. In conclusion, China started making bronzes INDEPENDENTLY at about 3000 BC but around 2000 BC, China also used the bronze technologies and styles from the West for some of it’s bronze objects. Your three POSSIBILITIES of ALLEGED Aryan domination of Shang dynasty are NOTHING but IDIOTIC SPECULATIONS WITHOUT SCIENTIFIC PROOF. You sound like some black idiots on the internet who claim black Africans established Shang dynasty in China. Just because Shang dynasty adopted the Indo- European style chariot, it DOES NOT mean Aryan domination of Shang dynasty. You forget that there were some Chinese influences on the Grecco- Roman civilization as I mentioned in my previous comment. Does it mean China dominated the Greco-Roman civilization ?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  108. j2 says:
    @Billy

    “It’s funny how a certain group of whites have committed to reducing anything good about white people to Nordics. ”

    What happened in North Western Europe is that a-class people got replaced by b-class people. First there were I2a and G2a, notice the letter a, later there were I1b and R1b, notice the letter b. Good students get a rather than b, and history is a story of decline, not development. As for Basques, they seem to have the same R1b, not older than about 4,000 years, as most Western European men. I guess finally they turn out to be rather recent immigrants from the east.

  109. Anonymous[723] • Disclaimer says:
    @tamo

    You are the only one incapable of accepting the only logical answer tha the mayority of scholars including chinese ones see as the only valid answer and accept Afanasevo and andronovo horizon ( 3500bc)as the ones who spread metalurgy… to north western china

    There was a debate, over more than half a century, on the origins of metallurgy in central China (Karlgren 1945; Loehr 1949). Today scholars generally accept that metal use entered China as metallurgy was adopted in the steppe and into the arc [i.e. Northwest China] (Chernykh 1992; Linduff 2015; Mei 2009). Some early metal finds in the arc (in the Hexi corridor and as far east as Chifeng) are only explicable as the result of several separate contacts with peoples from different parts of the steppe (Linduff 1998). Much of this early metalwork was of arsenical copper, smelted from an ore or achieved by adding arsenic to the copper. But although this alloy was introduced into China at the major site of Taosi in Shanxi province (Lin 2015, fig. 3), the central Chinese chose to work with tin bronze, to which they added lead, as some earlier casters of the Qijia culture in the Hexi corridor had done (Mei 2009:10). Tin bronze developed in the steppe, as seen in the Seima-Turbino phenomenon. Seima Turbino metalwork also impacted on the east: a spearhead-type with a projecting hook below the blade, originating in the Altai area, among other weaponry, was carried into China (Figure. 2). This connection ties some of the impetus for the choice of tin bronze in central China to such innovations (Mei 2009: fig. 3).

    The chariot appeared at the Shang court in the thirteenth century BC. Both the vehicle’s form, with large spoked wheels, and the paired trained horses must have been introduced from the arc and the steppe, where they were first used east of the Urals in Sintashta, about 2000 BC (Kuzmina 2008: 49-59). Such a completely new machine almost certainly needed steppe drivers and trainers for the horses, and we know that these were present at the Shang centre at Anyang from copies of steppe weapons found in their tombs (Rawson 2015: fig. 13).”

    Rawson, J., China and the Steppe: Reception and Resistance, 2017.

    https://ora.ox.ac.uk/objects/uuid:69…ournal+article

    “the Afanasievo tradition of pure copper metallurgy must have spread to the northern foothills of the Tienshan Mountains no later than the mid-third millennium BCE. The links with Afanasievo and local cultures adjacent to and south of the mountains into present-day China can now be assumed.”

    Linduff et al., Ancient China and it’s Eurasian Neighbours, 2018, p.54.

    https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=…page&q&f=false

    “the current study of copper and bronze metallurgy in late prehistoric Xinjiang demonstrates that Xinjiang acted as a medium in the early cultural interaction between Northwest China and the west of Xinjiang. Typological analysis is based on the observation that a variety of bronze forms associated with the Qijia, Siba, and Tianshanbeilu (Linya) cultures, all have parallels in steppe cultures. Metallurgical data revealed the use of tin bronze and arsenical bronze analogous to the composition of objects produced in the Eurasian steppe.

    The metal-using Afanasievo culture is probably the origin of bronze metallurgy in Northwest China. Contact with the Afanasievo culture may have been crucial for bronze metallurgy in Xinjiang. Ke’ermuqi cemetery in northern Xinjiang indicates Xinjiang–Afanasievo contact (Mei 2000: 15, 58). And Kuzmina (1998) discussed the possible relations between Qäwrighul cemetery and the Afanasievo culture. Afanasievo cultural influence in Xinjiang at the beginning of the second millennium BCE seems highly substantial. (cf. Jia and Betts 2010) Also, Xinjiang and the Gansu–Qinghai region during the first half of the second millennium BCE interacted with the bronze cultures of Qijia, Siba, and Tianshanbeilu. (Mei 2000: 66)
    Tianshanbeilu (Linya) cemetery is the earliest Bronze Age site in eastern Xinjiang. The group A ceramics of the Linya cemetery possess strong characteristics of Siba culture; Group B ceramics are unique and seem to have been influenced by cultures from the Altai region or even by areas further north. (Li 2003: 13) Thus Group B can be identified with the Afanasievo people, or those influenced by the Afanasievo culture. (cf. Jia and Betts 2010) Copper and bronze objects excavated at the Tianshanbeilu cemetery show clear typological connections with Eurasian steppe cultures. As thoroughly demonstrated in Mei (2003: 36), many of the more than 270 copper and bronze objects discovered from Siba culture indicate strong typological/stylistic connections with the Steppe.”

    Wan, X., Early development of Bronze Metallurgy in Eastern Eurasia, 2011.

    http://sino-platonic.org/complete/sp…metallurgy.pdf

    Im out, dont call us honky if you are not prepared for war

    • Replies: @tamo
  110. As a follow-up, I came across this very intereting genomic study: “Gene flow from North Africa contributes to differential human genetic diversity in southern Europe” ( https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23733930 ).

    Confirming the commonplace that genetics is clinal.

  111. Anonymous[198] • Disclaimer says:
    @Patrick

    While ancient Greece does have accounts of some blond haired people

    Believe it or not, modern Greece does have accounts of some blond haired people.

    • Replies: @Patrick
  112. Anonymous[130] • Disclaimer says:
    @Patrick

    but I believe prejudice should never enter the realm of politics.

    That’s exactly where “prejudice” should be employed the most. In our personal relationships we’re all judging people on a case-by-case basis but a sane ruler must use (prejudicial) statistics. What’s happening to the West now is murder-suicide and the Jews will pay for it dearly.

    • Replies: @Patrick
  113. Anon[723] • Disclaimer says:
    @Nordocuck

    Lmaoo what a liar you are

    PIE or yamnaya where a mix of two different subraces , eastern european hunter gatherer( closest descendants finns) that raped caucasus hunter gatherer( closest descendants georgians, tajics…) to form yamnaya .
    The ones with fairer traits where eatern european hunter gatherers , all indo european tribes where fair haired ( sintashta, andronovo , scythians, latins dorians…)except yamnaya that was ( 50% ehg +50chg ) the rest of indo european tribes that conquered the world and the ones that descended to europe too had much fewer chg ancestry and much more ehg .

    – there wasnt blonde haired people in europe before yamnaya came the first genes for blonde hair came afontova gora ANE that gave eastern european hunter gatherers those traits
    http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2017/05/european-blond-hair-may-have-originated.html?m=1

    The derived allele of the KITLG SNP rs12821256 that is associated with – and likely causal for – blond hair in Europeans [4,5] is present in one hunter-gatherer from each of Samara, Motala and Ukraine (I0124, I0014 and I1763), as well as several later individuals with Steppe ancestry. Since the allele is found in populations with EHG but not WHG ancestry, it suggests that its origin is in the Ancient North Eurasian (ANE) population. Consistent with this, we observe that earliest known individual with the derived allele is the [Siberian] ANE individual Afontova Gora 3 which is directly dated to 16130-15749 cal BCE (14710±60 BP, MAMS-27186: a previously unpublished date that we newly report here).

    the correlation with yamnaya ancestry or maybe would be better to say with ehg ancestry and blonde hair is total from finns that are 65% yamnaya to spaniard and greeks around 25%

    View post on imgur.com

    Pic of finnish woman , peak yamnaya ancestry in the world

    Elf master race

    • Replies: @Nordo De Cuck
  114. tamo says:
    @Anonymous

    I have noticed that you many times quoted Jiang Jun Mei. I read his paper on the interaction between China and Central Asia during the Bronze Age. China’s INDIGENOUS ORIGINAL bronze culture started during Majiayao Culture (3300 BC- 2500 BC) and lasted thru Banshan Culture (2500 BC- 2300 BC) and to Machang Culture ( 2300 BC- 2000 BC ) WITHOUT ANY FOREIGN INPUT. At around 2000 BC both Qijia and Siba cultures that followed the previous Chinese cultures, came in contact with steppe bronze cultures and adopted some of their techniques. I think 2000 BC is the INFLECTION POINT. There is NO EVIDENCE YET that metal existed BEFORE 2000 BC in Xinjiang area and right now we only find metal or bronze items made AFTER 2000 BC. You said ““the Afanasievo tradition of pure copper metallurgy must have spread to the northern foothills of the Tienshan Mountains no later than the mid-third millennium BCE. The links with Afanasievo and local cultures adjacent to and south of the mountains into present-day China can now be assumed.”. But China already produced bronze objects including a bronze -cast knife dated to 3000 BC from Majiayao Culture ( 3300 BC-2500 BC) and many other bronze items. According to Mei, Afanasieve used arsenic copper. Also China produced brass items in 4000 BC-3000 BC. You said “Afanasievo cultural influence in Xinjiang at the beginning of the second millennium BCE seems highly substantial. (cf. Jia and Betts 2010) Also, Xinjiang and the Gansu–Qinghai region during the first half of the second millennium BCE interacted with the bronze cultures of Qijia, Siba, and Tianshanbeilu. (Mei 2000: 66)”. I have NO problem with this statement. Yes, right AFTER 2000 BC, the bronze styles of Afanasieve, Andronovo and it’s subcultures influenced Qijia and Siba bronze cultures in China. But this steppe bronze influence on China is about 1000 years AFTER China started making bronzes INDIGENOUSLY. Also another completely different bronze culture began in about 2000 BC in the Central Plains of China that used PIECE-MOLD cast technique that no other cultures in the world used. So it means China had at least two different INDIGENOUS bronze cultures, one starting at around 3000 BC and another completely different one at around 2000 BC. So the people who claim the western origin of China’s bronze culture, HAVE NOT YET DISPROVED that the Chinese bronze culture that started at about 3000 BC in Gansu area of northwestern China, was of INDIGENOUS ORIGIN. As I said before, according to Encyclopedia Britanica, “in Greece and China, for instance, the Bronze Age began before 3000 BCE, whereas in Britain it did not start until about 1900 BCE”. What we have to now is wait for some archaeologists find some metal and bronze works in Xinjiang that existed BEFORE 2000 BC so that they can convincingly decide this matter one way or another. Until then, there is no use arguing any further about the true origin of Chinese bronze culture. But as of now, the indigenous origin of China’s bronze culture stands until it’s disproven decisively. But I do beIieve that China got the chariot technology from the steppe cultures. I don’t use racial slurs unless somebody uses them first.

  115. @Patrick

    Patrick, you should move on from the ancient world of physical anthropology to the modern world of population genetics. Every ancient and modern European population has a variety of hair and eye colors in it, the whole point is what their AUTOSOMAL ancestry is altogether. One of the pre IndoEuropean Minoans tested was dark blond and she didn’t even have any steppe ancestry, just Anatolia and Caucasus!

    We have data from ancient Greeks and we’ll soon have data from ancient Romans (including the “patricians”) with a description of the results already available on the internet. Result: a majority of Anatolian Neolithic ancestry with minorities of steppe/Yamnaya and extra Caucasus Hunter-Gatherer ancestry.

    My style is combative only because the Nordocuckism on display is combative while being quite inaccurate, just fair play! We’re all big boys.

  116. @Anon

    Anon, you are thoroughly retarded on top of being illiterate (“where”), let me say. Sintashta and Adronovo were Yamnayans mixed with those blond Northeastern European farmers that I mentioned above. Look into the literature and understand the difference that the steppe underwent from the Steppe_EBA to the Steppe_MLBA populations! From mostly brunet Steppe_EBA to the intermediate/”Nordic” Steppe_MLBA as a result of mixing with certain very blond farmer populations. You’re reinforcing the exact point I made, my dear friend, without realizing it.

    The brown-eyed EHG themselves were fairer in some other aspects compared to the dark but very blue-eyed WHG but the Yamnayans themselves weren’t EHG but the descendants of very anciently mixed EHG-CHG populations!

    You also can’t understand the complex layers of ancestry within Finns themselves, there’s a reason they’re so blond despite having LESS Yamnaya ancestry than other Northern Europeans. You shouldn’t conflate Uralic ancestry with Yamnayan ancestry because they’re both mostly EHG. Stop looking at Haak 2015 and update your empty mind’s knowledge!

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  117. Anonymous[723] • Disclaimer says:
    @Nordo De Cuck

    And you fall again to provide any other source when it has been proved that blonde hair genes first appeared in ANE afontova gora ( steppe 13000 years ago ) that yamnaya as partial descendant would introduce those genes later on in europe , there wasnt a single gene for blonde hair before the yamnaya expansion.

  118. Patrick says:
    @Anonymous

    Well a persons personal prejudices can play a role in political decisions and policies but they should not be spoken of as the official reasons for certain policies or mentioned at all in relation to policies. Coded language should be used to enact certain things, the policy of using coded language is important because if a political party becomes too honest about certain prejudices it is acting under it risks engaging in human rights abuses and this situation is not only ethically wrong but it could also cause the nations of the world to unite against it.

  119. Patrick says:
    @Anonymous

    There are a few blond Greek Americans where I live

  120. @Guillaume Durocher

    Durocher,
    Since you are in favor of conquests, you will be thrilled when we, the Jews, take control of the entire world. Such conquest will put an end to all trivial marauding that you are in support of. We will finally civilize all of you, Goyim.

  121. @Kratoklastes

    If you knew anything about history, you would not write so much bulsheet. East Germans are mostly slavic. Slaves were living there in historical times, in fact they are still living there and still preserve their lenguage . The incoming population was german, but only constituted an overlay of the conquerors upon local population. It has nothing to do with any rapes. Unless you count the rapes committed on the local population by the German inviders.

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