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Truth, Faith and Palestine – Chester Interfaith Palestine Conference
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The following is a talk given at Chester Interfaith Palestine Conference 2019 on (2.1.2019).

In the last few days Zionist and Israeli advocacy groups were desperate to cancel the gathering of many local peace enthusiasts, intellectuals and religious leaders. Every Hasbara trick was put into play: Social media abuse, intimidating phone calls, smears and lies. But none of it worked. The pro- Israeli bigoted efforts backfired – – interest in the conference grew immediately, the local community stood for Palestine, peace, harmony and free speech!

Roderick Heather MBE, Chairman of Hoole Community Centre was subjected to vitriolic abuse. I learned yesterday that Mr Heather decided to attend the conference meetings and to judge for himself whether it was a ‘hateful’ gathering. Apparently he was impressed and announced to the group at the end of the first day that they will always be welcome at the Hoole Centre. Here is the message Mr Heather sent to North West Friends of Israel, the advocacy pressure group that led the campaign.

One may wonder why Zionist operators are so desperate to cancel Palestinian meetings and are so fearful of my work in particular. As things stand, the law seems to be on their side. With the IHRA definition of antisemitsm and current legislation designed to supress all criticism, the Zionist advocacy groups could theoretically seek to punish everyone who even comes close to any disputes of the operation of their community or their beloved state. You would expect Zionists to ignore Palestinian gatherings. If those gatherings were indeed ‘hateful’ they could have locked many of us up behind bars a long time ago. Clearly, the friends of Israel know that the reality is different. Palestine solidarity is a peaceseeking mission. Despite my huge body of work, I have never been accused of making a single hate statement. Needless to mention, I do not need to mention that I have never been charged or even questioned by a any legal authority anywhere in the world about anything I have said or written. The same applies to Stephen Sizer. The Zionist Lobby groups accuse Palestinian solidarity gatherings of being ‘hateful’ while knowing that this type of behaviour is something that Palestinian activism is free of.

Here are final words from Chester Interfaith Palestine Conference:

Chester Palestine Conference November 2nd 2019

The Chester Palestine Conference was even more successful on its second day. We actually ran out of chairs!

The theme for the day was “Grassroots for Palestine: making local links”.

The day started with a brief interfaith service.

Burnley Women’s Peace Group shared the experience of their Jerusalem Peace Pilgrimage this year. The images of Palestinian suffering were very moving. They are a Jewish, Christian and Muslim interfaith group.

A Jewish Roma activist addressed the similarities between the Roma and Palestinian experience.

Andrew Herbert from Chester’s Methodist Church spoke of his Palestinian house rebuilding experience with the Amos Trust.

Gilad Atzmon the international jazz artist and author of best-selling books on Jewish identity politics flew in from Greece to give a wide-reaching presentation entitled “Zionism from Herzl to Bibi”.

ORDER IT NOW

Atzmon was born into a Jewish family in Tel Aviv, and conscripted into the Israeli regime army where he had a life-changing experience when he was shocked by the barbaric conditions imposed by the Israeli regime on the Palestinians during the Israeli invasion into Lebanon in 1982.

In his intellectual, philosophical and polemical style he engaged us to think deeply about the causes of the worsening trauma of the Palestinian people.

Damien Short’s presentation on the Genocide of the Palestinians was unable to be shown due to technical problems. We will endeavour to distribute it to the conference attendees. Damien is a Reader in Human Rights at the University of London. His book “Redefining Genocide: Settler Colonialism, Social Death and Ecocide”, which includes a chapter on Genocide and Palestine, is highly recommended.

The Israeli artist Zohar’s exhibition of Palestinian paintings is on show at Chester University Kingsway Arts Campus, Kingsway, Chester CH2 2LB for the month of November.

These accomplished and thought-provoking pictures are “witnessing the chaos and brutality inflicted on the Palestinian civilian population by an ever more confident and belligerent military power.”

(For insurance and practical reasons we were unable to show these at the conference).

We look forward to the 3rd Annual Chester Palestine Conference in 2020 !

(Republished from Gilad Atzmon by permission of author or representative)
 
• Category: Ideology • Tags: Britain, Israel Lobby, Israel/Palestine 
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  1. Reading and watching Gilad’s work made me think of another video.

    Gilad, as a musician and a writer, you might consider taking on the monumental challenge of Jewish subversion of culture through music.

    Dave McGowan wrote, ‘CIA Hippie Mind Control: Inside Laurel Canyon.’ However, there is definitely a massive Jewish element in dominating the Popular Culture narrative.

    https://www.truthorfiction.com/louis-armstrong-was-taken-in-by-a-jewish-family-as-a-boy/

  2. I hope the tide turns and turns peacefully.

  3. It is going to be a slow thread you do not have Jews in your title. You need to have Jews, Judaism or Israel in your title. Like swarming bees to honey they come. Especially if you have some negative connotation. The Neo Nazi’s really come out.
    Who cares about what the Irish think. I get where they are coming from.

  4. A123 says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Nahhbh….. The title doesn’t matter…

    Giliad, servant of the Satanic Verses of the Koran, managed to overload a tiny venue. Simultaneously, Israel approved more than 2,000 new Jewish homes in Judea and Samaria (1).

    It is simple. Apostate Atzmon is totally irrelevant under any headline.

    PEACE 😇
    ________

    (1) https://www.timesofisrael.com/eu-slams-israel-for-okaying-2342-settler-homes-road-that-fragments-west-bank/

  5. ‘It is going to be a slow thread you do not have Jews in your title. You need to have Jews, Judaism or Israel in your title. Like swarming bees to honey they come. Especially if you have some negative connotation. The Neo Nazi’s really come out.
    Who cares about what the Irish think. I get where they are coming from.’

    Why are you talking about the Irish?

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  6. Wow you have never been questioned by police even? That is amazing. Here in Australia I have been visited at my home and office 3 times over the years on behalf of Zionist Jews who made false accusations about me making threats against Jews or of being a threat to the Jews.Obviously had I done either I’d have been arrested and charged in this country but in one case at least they already had seen all I wrote online and already knew I was innocent. YET they still had to investigate any complaint as they said.

    These are not just any old cops either. They have been Federal police and the local SSIG our Tactical Response professionals. I hate seeing our police being used as goons by the Zionists against Aussie citizens.

  7. @Fran Taubman

    No that is just the perception of one who worships at the feet of Satan’s minions. I have not seen any Neonazis on this site. Conservative certainly but no maam your Zionist love has merely made normal opposition to human rights abuses and historically destructive self worshipping cults seem like extremism. More likely to attract interest is Palestine because despite being generally unfriendly towards Muslims, which is typical of Western conservatism at this time, (I am both) this site has many decent morally upright humanists as followers and Palestine does draw the attention of humanists and human rights advocates anytime.

  8. anonymous[224] • Disclaimer says:
    @Fran Taubman

    You are too kind, Fran. Bees to honey? I’d rather think about flies and something else.

    Look at this new friend of Gilad, Jon Baptist. He thinks Gilad needs to talk more about Jewish subversion of culture through music. Louis Armstrong was taken in by a Jewish family. Did you know that that? They bought him his first instrument. No wonder that later he wrote “Let my people go.” As a gesture of gratitude he wore a Star of David. This is how Jews do it.

    And the Hippie Mind Control CIA operation? The Beatles – check! Their producer was a Jew – Epstein… Bob Marley? Check – his father was a Jew. And Bob Dylan was a full Jew, his real name was Zimmerman! List goes on and on. There is a massive Jewish element in the Popular Culture. I also think Gilad should to write a book about it. He needs to take on this monumental challenge.

    Gilad, what do you think about Jewish subversion of culture through music?

    • Replies: @Jon Baptist
  9. utu says:

    Leaked footage shows shocking moment Israeli policewoman shoots Palestinian in the back ‘for fun’
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7649189/Leaked-footage-shows-Israeli-policewoman-shoots-innocent-Palestinian-fun.html

  10. Great work, Gilad. You are making a real difference. Zionist censorship, bullying and subversion is losing its sway. Their desperation is showing. The cat is simply out of the bag.

    Nothing worries activist Jews more than unfettered and unedited Free Speech. “Don’t you dare say that!” Really? The gatekeepers are getting nervous. Very nervous. The internet cannot be controlled.

    Well done, my friend. Let there be dialogue, justice and let there be peace.

  11. @anonymous

    Truth, faith and Palestine! It would be an honor to be a “new friend” of Gilad. I have seen how Jews, bought-off politicians and mindless SJW’s treat him in the UK and US. I’ve read about his court case. What he goes through is sickening and disgusting. Where is Paul “Graceland” Simon to stand up for Gilad? Where is Randy Newman, Bob Dylan, Billy Joel, Barbara Streisand and the rest to stand up for the Palestinians? “Tikkun Olam” can never be resolved with the Jewish “Virtue of Hate.”

    Atzmon has the unique ability, unlike anyone else, to write about Jewish influence in music from both a good and bad perspective. He has the highest level of musical understanding and is unafraid to challenge those who challenge him. His writing is both logical and emotional and very similar to his playing. Who is trying to stop him from making a living as a musician? Groups protesting and intimidating Gilad along with his audiences prior to as well as during his shows easily prove Jewish influence with regards to booking venues and within the music industry as a whole.

    Most of the music that we consume is controlled by three white Jewish men. These are the invisible hands that control hip hop, rap, and have a disproportionate influence over Black culture…Weaponizing Black Music For Cultural Control” – https://www.panafricanalliance.com/who-controls-hip-hop/

    “We are all Palestinians.”

    • Replies: @anonymous
  12. Eric135 says:

    Heard any good new music? Seen any good new art? Read any good new poetry or novels? Seen any good new plays, TV shows or movies?

    It took a century for Jews to destroy Western culture (from 1900 to 2000). There are always outliers, but for the most part they’ve succeeded.

    • LOL: Fran Taubman
    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  13. anonymous[224] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jon Baptist

    I am impressed, what I wonderful salad in the head. Pan-African Alliance, Palestine, White Nationalism and John the Baptist. Really nice mix you have there.

    Well, this is true that mainstream hip-hop labels belong to Jews. Which doesn’t mean this is something problematic for the black artists. Pan-African Alliance is an organization of racist Negroes, who are saying that whites come from the lepers which were expelled from Africa a long time ago. They are saying that whites are albinos who lack melanin.

    As for the rappers, they choose to work with Jews. I know of plenty, and they are the best ones, who choose to work independently but that means less money. In any case, there is nothing in the way of those who want to start their own recording label. You can do it too.

    As for Gilad, there are plenty of places in the world where he can play without being disturbed by political activists. Like Turkey, for example. Or Japan. In fact, he can play safely in most countries of the world. But since he decided to be not only a musician, but to get involved in politics too he now has to deal with the consequences of that. Which, again, was his own choice. He knew what he was doing.

    By the way, John the Baptist was a Jewish nationalist. How does it fit in your head?

    • Replies: @Jon Baptist
    , @Eric135
  14. @Colin Wright

    I thought the conference was in Dublin. My bad

  15. @anonymous

    Many thanks for bringing up St. John the Baptist. I was named after him and he is in my thoughts everyday. He was born, lived and died a righteous Jew. He told the Jews to, “Repent!” They did not. Instead they killed him like many prophets before him. Also, just like before, instead of reflecting and embracing their prophets, current self-proclaimed Jews, put the many Herod facsimiles of today such as Rothschild, Haass, Netanyahu on high pedestals and prostrate making themselves minions and slaves to their sin.

    Gilad Atzmon, Ron Unz, Israel Shamir, and a few other brave men with Jewish backgrounds seek the truth. Once they find it, they share it with others. I am completely thankful for their work. It’s obvious they are doing something of extreme value because instead of being embraced, Jews and their proxies try to obliterate them.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  16. Wally says:
    @Fran Taubman

    – Hey Fran, you recently threw a little hissy fit and said that you were leaving this site. So what’s up?

    – Given the fact that the fake & impossible “holocaust” Big Lie has repeatedly been debunked at this site and others, your use of “Neo Nazi” makes no sense. But then genocide supporting Zionists are not the smartest kids on the block.

    – Time after time you have tried to exchange comments with Revisionists here, and time after time you have been made a fool of. Keep it up.

  17. @Eric135

    Eric you should get out more you sound depressed. Do not know what coast you are on or in the middle. But the Play Hamilton was pretty exciting. Not real recent.
    Stephen Sondheim’s: Sunday in the Park with George about the painter George Surat’s pointillist painting. “Sunday afternoon at La Grand Jatte. Brilliant.
    I just watched on Netflix THE KING. Modern take on Shakespear Henry v.
    Painting. Gosh there is a lot out there. Agnes Martin was a thoughtful painter. She passed away recently.
    Music I am not the best on. I tend to listen to alternative rock. But Phillip Glass is interesting.
    Especially his work with Robert Wilson like Einstein on the Beach really brilliant.
    I agree we are not overflowing but the Jews?
    I leave you with this profound piece :

    • Replies: @Eric135
  18. anonymous[224] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jon Baptist

    John the Baptist was murdered because he was trying to ignite a rebellion. King Herod, appointed by the Roman had him executed for that. He was a collaborator; Jews did not kill John the Baptist. He – John the Baptist, was a respected and popular religious leader. He was telling people to repent so that the Messiah would come and expell the Romans. He was an ardent Jewish nationalist, a radical and a rebel. And indeed he was a righteous Jew. If he met Gilad Atzmon, Ron Unz and Israel Shamir he would call them traitors.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  19. @anonymous

    News flash: 9 American souls were murdered and burnt in their cars, including women and children.
    It was done by the Sinaloa drug cartel!!. Look them up they operate on the Arizona Mexico border.
    Billions in drugs and human tracking.

    None of the Mexican drug cartels are Jews. Rats ass to you Jew haters out there. They are Catholic.
    Catholic murders, along with Catholic pedophiles.

    • Replies: @Eric135
    , @anonymous
  20. ‘News flash: 9 American souls were murdered and burnt in their cars, including women and children…’

    Now there it is. Imagine if this had happened to Jews in Israel.

    We’d be hearing about it for weeks. This?

    Try about a day. They’ve already started smearing the victims.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  21. Eric135 says:
    @Fran Taubman

    …the play Hamilton was pretty exciting…

    I don’t know why you’d think that. Almost none of the actors were white. Hamilton was our worst founding father but I understand he’s portayed as a hero.

    The star of the play lectured an audience member. Classy. Some two-bit, know-nothing mongrelized actor presuming to lecture a man with real responsibilities.

    In other words, the “musical” (hideous music) was a trashy, low-class Jewish lie. A perfect example of Jews crapping all over our history and our culture.

    Steven Sondheim…

    Yeah, just what we need. More Sondheim. More Jews.

    Modern take on Shakespeare’s Henry v.

    Modern? Yeah, I’ll bet. The man who played Henry was probably black.

    Of course, if whites do black-face….

    George Gershwin and (I presume) Leonard Bernstein…more Jews.

    All you’ve shown is that we live in Jewmerica, with the Jews — through their bribery, nepotism and discrimination against the majority population — dominating, defaming, and distorting our culture.

    Philip Glass

    Of course. Another Jew.

    Me depressed? Me unhappy? Not at all. I’ve been liberated from Jewish lies. The air I breathe is fresh. The sleep I sleep is sound.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  22. Eric135 says:
    @anonymous

    By the way, John the Baptist was a Jewish nationalist. How does that fit in your head?

    No, he was a Christian.

    He was certainly no Pharisee (Jew).

    • Replies: @anonymous
  23. Eric135 says:
    @Fran Taubman

    None of the Mexican drug cartels are Jews.

    How do you know?

    There are plenty of Mexican Jews.

    They’d be perfect for running organized crime in that country — just like the Jew Meyer Lansky ran organized crime in the United States.

    Lansky made Al Capone look like an amateur.

    For that matter, the Russian Mafia is a Jewish operation.

    And Jack Ruby (Rubenstein) was a Jewish gangsterr from New Orleans. He shot Lee Harvey Oswald to silence him after the Kennedy assassination.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  24. anonymous[224] • Disclaimer says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Oh, Fran. You are such a hater. When will Jewish hatred of Christ and Christendom abate, when?

    Yes, and the Mexican drug cartels also make millions on snuff films. You can book a snuff film on the Darknet sites in streaming for ten Bitcoins. A girl will be raped and tortured in real time, and then murdered. Mexican drug cartels are into the cult of Santa Muerte, a sort of a satanic religion under the guise of the Catholic creed. This cult is the fastest growing religion in the world now.

    Speaking of Catholics. Not all of them are pedophiles. This is kind of a privilege for the priesthood. Regular Catholics screw assess. This is a well-known fact, and it was shown on Youtube, there is a short film called “Donkey Sex: The Most Bizarre Tradition.” I was surprised to learn that in Colombia it is considered normal, as part of becoming a man to have sex with donkeys.

    The kids start doing that from the age of 12, and their fathers teach them how to. This is a tradition there. And all of them wear crosses and go to churches! The reporters who were filming it couldn’t believe that, so one of the Colombians went to the bushes and screwed a donkey right before them, on camera. This is on Youtube, for real. And these people consider Jews to be immoral!

    Amazing.

  25. @Colin Wright

    They found mass graves there. Can’t you take anything other than Jew hatred seriously?
    Those cartels murders are really nuts.

  26. @Eric135

    Where do you sleep and eat in a closet? Do you live with cats in a basement, with you mom upstairs.
    Seriously you sound pretty scary.
    Dystopian. Was game of thrones Jewish also? Just kidding.

  27. anonymous[224] • Disclaimer says:
    @Eric135

    John the Baptist was a Essene, Eric. Jews are not all Pharisees, not then and not now. However it doesn’t even matter, since Jesus himself was a Jewish nationalist too. Read the New Testament.

    He was hostile towards the Pharisees because the rabbis refused to recognize him as the Messiah, and the rabbis thought he was a heretic because he questioned their tradition, but that was a regular internal Jewish disagreement, same as when later the rabbis refused to recognize Hasidism. You all misunderstand the nature of that. Have you read the New Testament, Eric?

    “For a certain woman, whose daughter had an unclean spirit, heard of him, and came and fell at his feet. The woman was a Greek; and she besought him that he would cast forth the devil out of her daughter. But Jesus said unto her, Let the children first be filled: for it is not meet to take the children’s bread, and to cast it unto the dogs.” – Mark 7:25

    Yes in the Talmud the rabbis sometimes compare gentiles to assess, but not to dogs. At least an ass is the animal which brings the Messiah to Jerusalem. This is what the rabbis mean. But a dog is an insult, and Jesus called the Greek woman a dog.

    Read the New Testament.

    • Replies: @Eric135
  28. utu says:

    The Deception Facing the Church by Christian Zionism (Dr. E. Michael Jones at TrueNews)

    • Agree: Jon Baptist, Eric135
  29. @Rabbitnexus

    I don’t know about the future… However I am pretty careful about my discourse,,,

  30. @Rabbitnexus

    More likely to attract interest is Palestine because despite being generally unfriendly towards Muslims, which is typical of Western conservatism at this time, (I am both)

    Confused. Are you western and conservative, or Palestinian and Muslim. Why would the Police question you? The only person I have seen get into trouble is people like Anjem Choudary who sort of crossed a line and was warned. I would love to know what sparked the complaint. Why you were signaled out.

  31. AaronB says:
    @Eric135

    I think we need Ron Unz to write an in depth expose of how the Mexican drug cartels are really run by Jews and the foot soldiers are all ex Israeli army soldiers…

    He did that for the Italian mob, now we need it for this.

    In fact I’m shocked he hasn’t already. Its so obvious of you think about it.

    • Agree: Eric135
    • LOL: Reality Cheque
  32. @AaronB

    It will be his next Pravda entry.

    • Replies: @Reality Cheque
  33. Eric135 says:
    @anonymous

    John the Baptist was a Essene.

    No, he was a Christian. He baptized Jesus, doing the will of the Father — that is to say, God. I guess you are not aware that Jesus is God manifested in the flesh and existed before time itself according to Christian doctrine.

    John the Baptist existed to do God’s will. Saying that he was some sort of Jew is a perversion of the truth.

    Jews are not all Pharisees, not then and not now.

    Wrong. Pharisees controlled the Temple and the sacrifice. Once those were gone (thanks to the Romans), Phariseeism evolved into the Talmud and Kabballah (both satanic), with the latter strongly influencing all the other forms of Judaism.

    Jesus rightly called Jews children of the devil. To come out of Satan’s thrall, Jews must renounce Judaism and become Christians. They must pray for forgiveness, repent, and be sincere in their Christian faith.

    Jesus himself was a Jewish nationalist

    He was not a Jew, and he was not a nationalist. He was a Nazarene (the Jews considered them to be heathens), and he clearly said “My kingdom is not of this world”. You ask me if I’ve read the New Testament. It’s clear that you haven’t.

    “For a certain woman, whose daughter had an unclean spirit, heard of him, and came and fell at his feet. The woman was a Greek; and she besought him that he would cast forth the devil out of her daughter. But Jesus said unto her, Let the children first be filled: for it is not meet to take the children’s bread and cast it to the dogs.”….Jesus called the woman a dog.

    “Jesus called the woman a dog…” This is typical Jewish deception. Everybody please take note, because you’ll see this kind of thing over and over again coming from the Jews, and too many of the goyim fall for it.

    It is obvious, when Jesus says, “Let the children FIRST be filled (emphasis mine), that children are eating at the time of the woman’s request. Jesus will be happy to satisfy the woman’s request, but first he wants to finish seeing that the children are fed, “for it is not meet to take the children’s bread and cast it to the dogs”.

    He is not calling the Greek woman a dog or denying her request.

  34. @AaronB

    I think we need Ron Unz to write an in depth expose of how the Mexican drug cartels are really run by Jews and the foot soldiers are all ex Israeli army soldiers…’

    No; the cartels are all run by Nazis, and their foot soldiers are actually all ex-stormtroopers.

    That’s how we know Hitler was just fine.

    This is your argument.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  35. @Colin Wright

    The cartel guys, disembowel people on the spot.
    You sure they are not Jews?

  36. @AaronB

    I am not allowed to post on PG’s page, but I have been looking at the comments. This has to be the worst Jew hatting I have seen on UR. They usually happen on PGs pages when he puts Jews in the headline. Oddly he had a photo of Bernie to even it out.
    But yikes it kind of got to me.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @AaronB
  37. anonymous[224] • Disclaimer says:
    @Eric135

    I guess you are not aware that Jesus is God manifested in the flesh and existed before time itself according to Christian doctrine.

    Yes according to Christian doctrine he is, but didn’t I explain in detail twice in the past few days how this doctrine was forged? I’m not going to repeat it again. Read comment 269 in the “We Are All Palestinians” thread.

    And what does it mean at all that he baptized Jesus? He baptized lots of people, all Jews get baptized. So what? You are ignorant and instead of learning you are attempting to invent an imaginary world. This will not lead you to a good place, Eric. You are young and don’t know yet how dangerous it is. The perversion of the truth is called a lie, and I am not lying.

    John the Baptist was a prominent figure among the Essenes. And the Essenes were the most pious of the three Jewish sects at that time. Any Christian encyclopedia will confirm this; go and check it.

    Pharisees controlled the Temple and the sacrifice. Phariseeism evolved into the Talmud and Kabballah (both satanic).

    No. Pharisees were rabbis, whose teaching was then oral and later indeed was recorded and is now known as the Talmud, but the Temple was controlled by a different sect – the Sadducees. Nowadays they are known as Karaites. They don’t recognize the Talmud. Along with the Essenes these three were the Jews of that period.

    And when Jesus started his own sect of Nazarenes those were the fourth one, for three hundred years and all of them were Jews too. At this time there are 20 thousand of them in Israel and more than 300 thousand in the world. Look it up – Messianic Judaism.

    • Replies: @Eric135
  38. anonymous[224] • Disclaimer says:
    @Eric135

    Jesus rightly called Jews children of the devil. To come out of Satan’s thrall, Jews must renounce Judaism and become Christians.

    Jesus never called Jews “children of the devil.” He said that to the rabbis in a polemic, who also said to him “Now we know that thou hast a devil.” This does not mean that he was possessed, same as it doesn’t mean that he implied that those rabbis were children of the devil indeed . That was a rhetorical expression.

    More so, it was mistranslated. Jews don’t have a concept of the devil at all, nor there is a word for devil in Hebrew and what he said indeed was “satan,” and in Judaism satan is a spirit of slander and not a god. You can check this if you want to but I know you won’t.

    The Greek word diabolos means “slanderer” and the concept of the devil as the opponent of God is a Christian invention. Jews see Satan as an angel and not a god. For there is one God and all the angels are His tools and not his opponents. You Christians are idolators. You, and not Jews are in the Satan’s thrall.

    Look: this is Exsultet or Easter Proclamation, in Latin – Praeconium Paschale. It is sung during the Easter Vigil in the Roman Rite of Mass.

    “Flammas eius lúcifer matutínus invéniat: ille, inquam, lúcifer, qui nescit occásum. Christus Fílius tuus, qui, regréssus ab ínferis, humáno géneri serénus illúxit, et vivit et regnat in sæcula sæculórum.”

    This is how it is now translated: “May this flame be found still burning by the Morning Star: the one Morning Star who never sets, Christ your Son, who, coming back from death’s domain, has shed his peaceful light on humanity, and lives and reigns for ever and ever.”

    You see – in the translation lúcifer is replaced with the morning star. However, this also is a reference to Lucifer. The phrase is from the Book of Isaiah 14:12 and it speaks of the fallen angel.

    “How you have fallen from heaven, morning star, son of the dawn!” – New International Version; “How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!” – the King James translation; “Quomodo cecidisti de caelo, Lucifer, qui mane oriebaris?” – Vulgata in Latin.

    The priesthood consider that Christ is Lucifer. And Jews do not worship Lucifer and do not worship idols. You worship the idol in the form of a man who is being tortured; what is this if not satanism?

    The Christian priesthood worship Lucifer, the fallen angel. He is diabolos, the slanderer – according to their own understanding, and the priesthood is slandering Jews from whom the Book was stolen.

    Now of course regular Christians don’t know nothing about this but the spell is working. This is the reason for all the ignorance and hate among them. You are a good example of a Christian.

    • Replies: @Eric135
  39. anonymous[224] • Disclaimer says:
    @Eric135

    “Let the children first be filled: for it is not meet to take the children’s bread and cast it to the dogs.” – He is not calling the Greek woman a dog.

    Yes he is. He is calling Jews children and gentiles dogs. This is of course a metaphor, same as when the rabbis in the Talmud are calling gentiles assess. How interesting it is that Christians are offended when in the latter case and have no problem with the former.

    Jesus meant in that passage that secular Jews, “the lost sheep of Israel” – as he said in Matthew 15:23, in the same situation – are like children to him and that gentiles are like dogs. The tribe goes first. “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs,” he said.

    “Yes it is, Lord,” the woman said. “Even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master’s table.” Jesus was flattered and helped her then, but she had to call him Lord and herself a dog, and to beg for crumbs from his table. He was clear about that: the children’s bread is not for the dogs.

    But since the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master’s table, well – alright then. Eat the crumbs.

    • Replies: @Eric135
  40. AaronB says:
    @Fran Taubman

    I hear. Its bad stuff over there. You’d hope there would be some decent sorts on their side to calm things down, but even Talha seems to be contributing.

    The important thing is for us not to become like them and keep to our values. Part of why they are losing to us is because they have such low values.

    But I also wouldn’t let them get to you. They are just very unhappy people who suffer a lot, and don’t know what to do.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  41. @AaronB

    I would stay away from religious discussions especially talmudic and biblical. It is not a good track to be on with them.
    The important thing is we have to fight. I try to focus on the dehumanization of the Jews. That it is not something that is going to prevail. Humanity will not let the Jews go down like that.
    I am surprised about Talha. The thing that is so annoying about PG, is he thinks of himself as a Pat Buchanan a hair away from a legit conservative..
    He is the biggest stoker of the Neo nazi stuff all in the guise of being a normal CIA agent.
    He is so duplicitous sort of sick really. He is the Jew hater of Jew haters.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  42. @Fran Taubman

    Not if Izvestia or Trud manage to snap it up first.

  43. AaronB says:
    @Fran Taubman

    I’m now in the same boat as you Fran 🙂 Giraldi also trashed my last few comments and didn’t post them lol.

    They should just declare his threads Judenrein – a “safe” space for anti-Semites. I guess the fragile little things need somewhere they can freely vent about how Jews need to die.

    Oh well, and I was having so much fun. Perhaps I wasn’t sportsmanlike and should have let them win a few times.

    • Replies: @Reality Cheque
  44. Eric135 says:
    @anonymous

    All Jews get baptized.

    No, they don’t, as anyone can quickly verify by using google.

    John the Baptist was a prominent figure among the Essenes.

    No, he wasn’t. He lived like a hermit out in the desert.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  45. Eric135 says:
    @anonymous

    Jesus never called Jews ‘children of the devil’.

    Yes he did, in John 8:44. (New Testament, KJV)

    The Gospel of John was written in Greek, and John was a Christian, so all your stuff about what the Jews believe doesn’t matter.

    Jesus himself called the devil a liar and a murderer. So there’s your definition for you. We don’t need you to talk about other definitions.

    Your constant attempts to judaize Jesus and Christianity won’t work with me.

    The Old Covenant with the Hebrews died with Jesus on the cross. Christianity is the New Israel. God gave up on the Jews, who will be in Satan’s thrall unless and until they become Christians.

    But despair not. Anyone may join the Kingdom.

  46. Eric135 says:
    @anonymous

    Yes he is. He is calling the Jews children and the gentiles dogs.

    Wrong. I’ve already shown that he’s not doing that with the Greek woman. Why keep repeating your falsehood?

    Jesus meant in that passage that secular Jews, “the lost sheep of Israel” — as he said in Mattheww 15:23 in the same situation — are like children to him.

    He doesn’t say anything of the sort in Matthew. And what could “secular Jews” possibly mean in Jesus’ time?

    The “lost sheep of Israel” are people who believe in Jesus. He is their shepherd, come to gather his flock and separate the wheat (Christians) from the tares (Jews).

    He has made it clear that the Jews have offended God. It is only through Him that they can redeem themselves.

    In Matthew 15, he is testing the Canaanite woman’s faith. That is all. Your racializing of everything is quite distasteful. But typical of Jews.

  47. anonymous[224] • Disclaimer says:
    @Fran Taubman

    No Fran religion is the heart of the problem here and it is the only topic which is not going to change. You can argue about politics and social issues until you die with no result. One thing will pass and then another will begin. Jeff. Epstein today, something else tomorrow; this was we will be seen as devil’s advocates.

    Religion is the only thing that will tomorrow be the same as today, and this is where we need to beat them. But you need to know that stuff.

    Aaron is wrong – he thinks these are unhappy people who suffer a lot. I know for sure that the most notorious of them are wealthy people who never suffered. Lasha Darkmoon, who writes for a number of sites is a rich English landlord in her 60’s. She identifies herself as a persecuted Christian.

    Kevin MacDonald is a professor; Andrew Joyce has a PhD and pastor Texe Marrs is not poor. Michael Hofmann doesn’t look poor to me.

    Hei, look where we are at. Ron Unz is not an unhappy man. He is an outstanding example of a successful man. Yet I am using an old notebook now and I can’t afford a new one, and I don’t know what to do but this doesn’t make me hate people. Aaron is a hippie and doesn’t understand; he is rich.

    “You must be rich in the first place to think like that.” 🙂

    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @Fran Taubman
  48. @AaronB

    I guess that makes us the Excluded Troika.

    • LOL: AaronB
    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  49. anonymous[224] • Disclaimer says:
    @Eric135

    Baptizing is a Jewish ritual Eric it is called mikveh. As part of the traditional procedure for conversion to Judaism a non-Jew or a secular Jew who returns to the religion is to be immersed in water for ritual cleansing. A mikveh must be connected to a natural spring or well, or to a river or a lake.

    John the Baptist lived like a hermit out in the desert near the settlement of Qumran. That is where the Essenes lived and where the Dead Sea Scrolls were found. This place is located not far from the Jordan river in which he baptized people. Learn Eric, for ignorance leads to delusions.

    • Replies: @Eric135
  50. AaronB says:
    @anonymous

    You are correct they are not physically suffering but I meant psychological suffering – many wealthy people with good jobs lead lives of bleak emptiness and torment. Hating Jews fills the void.

    Moreover, these are incredibly ambitious people who were thwarted in some way, often by Jews. Even though they are objectively well off their sense of status and pride is tremendously hurt. Its impossible to miss this note in Ron Unz, MacDonald, and Colin Wright. Egos to the max, these guys.

    You are correct about religion.

    And you are correct that I am, at heart, a hippie of sorts, in my own way 🙂

    • Replies: @anonymous
  51. Adrian says:

    Gilad’s experience here is quite similar to the many other occasions on which Jewish members of the community have come out as a swarm of angry hornets to attack somebody or other who is supposed to be involved in violating one of their shibbolets. In an earlier post I described how the tiny New Zealand Jewish community (about 7,000 souls) managed to wreck the academic career in that country of Joel Hayward.

    The late Baruch Kimmerling, Professor of Sociology at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, once referred to the predominance of a tribal identity in Israel as different from a civic identity based on a conception of universal human and civic rights.

    And much of the diaspora, particularly here in Australia, shows a similar character. It was much in evidence in 2003 when the Sydney Peace Foundation, which is associated with the University of Sydney, decided to award the Palestinian academic and activist Dr.Hanan Ashrawi with the Sydney Peace Prize for that year. The Peace Foundation did by no means go out on a limb here. In the year before that she had received the Swedish Olof Palme Prize and two years after the Sydney event she got the Mahatma Gandhi International Award for Peace and Reconciliation. Her most recent distinction was being made an officer in the French “Légion d’Honneur”(2016)

    The Peace Foundation invited the then Premier of New South Wales, Bob Carr, to present the prize (the Premier of an Australian state has a function roughly similar to that of a US Governor A.)

    This is how Carr described what happened:

    [MORE]

    “The letter was in the bulging file marked ‘Premier’s Invites’. The invitation was to an annual dinner where a peace prize was presented to a person chosen by the Sydney Peace Foundation at Sydney University. This year they had decided to present the award to Hanan Ashrawi. I knew her from CNN and had been impressed by her dignity.

    I didn’t want another night at an official function, no matter how worthy. Yet in the end I responded to the bugle summons of duty. I felt I had to accept. My thinking was that the Western world must reward those Palestinian leaders who choose a negotiated settlement with Israel. This would cement Palestinian support for a peaceful solution. And that would make Israel more secure, my key concern.

    I had been a long-term supporter of Israel. In 1977, as a young trade union official, I had rented a room in the Trades Hall, bought some cask wine and invited Bob Hawke (then trade union leader and later Prime Minister of Australia A.) to come along and launch Labor Friends of Israel. I had remained its token president ever since and was always on hand to greet delegations and troop along to the Independence Day celebrations. As a young MP I stood on the back of a truck outside the Entertainment Centre, which was hosting the Bolshoi Ballet, and addressed a small Jewish rally attacking the Soviets for not allowing its Jews to emigrate. The same again, outside the Soviet Consulate in Woollahra.

    In 1983 I had visited Israel with a delegation of NSW Labor people and had found it congenial enough, if not a revelation, admirable for its strong labour institutions. We met no Palestinians and were not driven around the occupied West Bank.

    For years after, I had made myself available to meet Israeli delegations and visitors, mostly gloomy and dogmatic diplomats, including Mrs Rabin, whose haughty brows arched in contempt as she shrugged off questions about a two-state solution and the welfare of the Palestinians.

    I and my Labor crowd were in the Zionist camp. I remember joking with John Wheeldon, a former Labor senator and a minister in the Whitlam government, about our special closeness to Israel—with its craggy old Labour Party in permanent power, its collectivised agriculture kibbutzniks who were Holocaust survivors. I entertained a notion that in retirement I might sign up as a volunteer to talk about the history of the Holocaust to counter Holocaust denial. It seemed to me self-evident that the Jews were in fact an exceptional people who had made a contribution to civilisation well above their numbers. I didn’t dream that in feeding this self-image I might be encouraging a strand of thinking that, among other things, had Jews enjoying a view of themselves as the ‘Chosen People’ and therefore entitled to uncontestable rights to the land God gave them.

    The issue of Israeli settlements slowly wormed its way into my consciousness, but not enough to undermine my instinctual support for the Jewish state. Which brings me back to the invitation to present the peace prize to Hanan Ashrawi. I ticked the box to accept the invitation with an air of, ‘yet another official function to keep me away from home … but it’s good for the Jews. My attendance will reward a Palestinian leader who has signed up for a peaceful path to Palestinian statehood. That’s got to be good for Israel.’ The storm of criticism that then occurred was a shock, and—I will develop this point—an insight.

    Soon after my participation was announced, Jewish leaders launched an ‘international petition’ to force me to withdraw from the award. Sam Lipski, a prominent member of the Jewish community in Melbourne, denounced Hanan Ashrawi as a Holocaust denier. There was not a shred of evidence, and he was forced to withdraw and apologise. There were threats of funding being withdrawn from Sydney University. Its chancellor, Justice Kim Santow, barred Ashrawi from even appearing in the Great Hall. Letters of protest were dispatched about the awards going to a Palestinian, switchboards set aflame with indignation.
    This campaign had two objectives: to see that no Australian politician attended the presentation of the peace prize and that the peace prize be withdrawn.

    An article in The Australian suggested that by accepting this invitation I had damaged the federal Labor leadership of Simon Crean and quoted an anonymous member of his staff to that effect.
    Just as federal Labor is lifting its game, the NSW premier does this unconscionable thing that sets us back—this was the tone of the story planted by a member of Crean’s staff but not, I am convinced, by Crean himself. The day it appeared I received a call from a former colleague, Laurie Brereton, now serving in the federal parliament, who told me in strong language that I should not back down. He said, ‘This group [he meant the Israel lobby, especially in Melbourne] is used to bullying to get its way…You get nothing by backing off.’

    I had already reached the same view as Brereton. If I had backed down it would have sent a melancholic message to all Australians of Arabic or Palestinian background: namely that, through its political clout, the other side—‘the lobby’, ‘the community’—will always crush you. I had given my word I would present this prize (ironically, because in one tiny way it would make a contribution to Israel being more secure). I would not back down.

    I have never received more support on any single issue in my time in public life. I was stopped in the street by strangers who said, ‘Congratulations on not backing down’. It was the only controversy I can recall where this continued a month after publicity ceased.

    The award dinner was a sell-out full of people from boardroom Sydney, who, I realised, had an instinctive understanding of what had gone on here: a plain bullying attempt to silence a side in the debate as legitimate as its opposite.”

    This was an edited extract from ‘Me and ‘the lobby’’, a chapter in Bob Carr’s just-published book Run for Your Life (Melbourne University Publishing, 2018).

    This was not the only part of Bob Carr’s epiphany. Another came on a golf course in Sydney.
    Carr said, inter alia, this about it in the (conservative, Murdoch) paper The Australian:

    “PENNANT Hills Golf Club in Sydney is an unusual place for an epiphany on the changes in Israel. Still, it was there I met a Christian volunteer who went to the occupied territories to escort Palestinian children to school, to protect them from verbal and physical ­violence by Israeli settlers.

    Violence against Arab kids? Christian volunteers to protect them? From Jewish settlers?
    None of this was around in 1977 when I rented a room in Sydney Trades Hall and called on Bob Hawke, ACTU president, to help me launch Labor Friends of Israel.”

    “The symbol of Israel used to be the kibbutz,” says a friend in the British Labour Party. “It’s now the settlement.” They have doubled in the past 54 months alone.”

    “In the British debate Richard Ottaway, a Conservative and long-term supporter of Israel, ­declared, “If they are losing ­people like me, they will be losing a lot of people.”
    He and others in centrist politics have been sickened by religious fanatics standing on seized Palestinian land declaring that God gave them Judea and Samaria, and the Arabs are inferior anyway. Sickened by the routine violence of the settlers, serious enough to warrant front-page treatment in that voice of the US foreign policy establishment, Foreign Affairs: settlers smashing the windows of Palestinian flats to drive families out, uprooting the date and olive trees on Palestinian farms, spraying graffiti on ­churches and mosques.In 1977 the Palestine Liberation Organisation was blowing up planes. Now for 25 years Palestinians have been committed to a neg­otiated solution, most recently to a demilitarised state with the presence of a US-led NATO force on the West Bank and East ­Jerusalem.

    In 1977 when we launched Labor Friends of Israel we knew, to our disgrace, none of their narrative.”

    Carr was a Foreign Minister in the cabinet of Prime Minister Julia Gillard, Here he had further experiences with the pro-Israel lobby:

    “In his tell-all “Diary of a Foreign Minister” Carr documents how he rolled Julia Gillard on Australia’s stand in a United Nations vote to give Palestine observer status at the UN. Gillard initially overruled a cabinet in which all but two ministers (Stephen Conroy and Bill Shorten) opposed her determination for Australia to vote no.

    She was eventually forced to back down by the prospect of being overruled by a caucus revolt, which was encouraged by Carr. Carr warned Gillard he would not support her if the issue came to a vote in the party room. Australia ended up abstaining on the resolution, which was carried.
    In his book, Carr lashes out at the attempt of the Melbourne-based “pro-Israel lobby” to “stand over us”, using power it had based on donations to Labor.

    He writes that Kevin Rudd (one time Prime Minister of Australia A.)told him about one-fifth of the money he had raised in the 2007 election campaign had come from the Jewish community.
    In her office Gillard had an adviser Bruce Wolpe, one of whose roles was to liaise with the Jewish community.” (from “The Conversation” 10 April 2014)

    Carr had seen and heard enough. In 2014 the man who in 1977 was the co-founder of the Labor Friends of Israel decided to become a patron of the Labor Friends of Palestine.

    • Replies: @anonymous
    , @Fran Taubman
  52. Eric135 says:
    @anonymous

    Baptizing is a Jewish ritual Eric it is called mikveh

    My google search says you’re wrong. I’m believing google, not you. Sorry.

    Mikveh might be similar to baptism, but it is not baptism.

    Baptism is what Christians do, not Jews.

    John the Baptist lived like a hermit out in the desert near the settlement of Qumran. This is where the Essenes lived.

    And I live within two miles of Leonardo di Caprio’s house. That doesn’t mean I have anything to do with him or he with me.

    Try looking up the definition of the word “hermit”.

    I think that might clarify things for you.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  53. @anonymous

    I find your writing erudite and interesting but too much in the weeds for me. I have a religious background but I am an artist and have to spend so much time with the technical details of my craft I can not focus that deeply on all of your points. It is difficult stuff for me to understand, imagine them.

    I do not agree with your approach for me it is much more basic. Look at Hannah Arendt she was like a mild version of Gilad. As a philosopher she hated religion but was pro Zionist.
    It goes back and forth and you get into what it means to be a Jew.

    For me the whole point is that there is a behavioral protocol for all humans. It is against the laws of nature to behave towards one group any group bound together by religion or race in a inhuman fashion and ascribe evil and blame them for 9/11 , claiming that they are manipulating events to control of the world. It is a form of psychosis which oddly enough Gilad ascribes to Jews he calls it Jewish psychosis. The idea is not technical like how did the buildings come down. But that Jews would be involved in any sort of mass murder is unthinkable. But Gilad will entertain the idea to keep them happy. We do not and have never done mass murder and others have. You see the Muslims do it all the time, yet they blame us, and make their primary topic Palestine.

    So I would like to deal with the Jew hatred on a psychological level and show that Jew hatred is a disease. I do not know quite how to frame it but that is my starting point.

    You here: I like Jews but not Zionist. How do you get your mind around that? What do you really say? That is the way Jew hatred is being manifested today and it is difficult to tackle. You cannot willy nilly call someone an anti semite when they say that it is like calling them a liar. It is brilliant trap. They want to hound us into giving up Israel by just driving everyone crazy. Like they cannot eat or sleep until Israel become Palestine it is an obsession with no grey. I have never seen anything like it. Pol Pot got more sympathy.

    How do we explain what is going on beyond the childish explanations, like anti-semitism because it is really deeper then that. It is inhuman. How do we get off the front page. Most people are really exhausted from it. That is why I was kidding that up next the drug cartels are Mossad. It is all Jews all the time, yet in reality there is so much to worry about.

  54. anonymous[224] • Disclaimer says:
    @AaronB

    Aaron how much more bleak is the life of a poor man, have you an idea? Frustration and despair. No hope.

    And these people can do whatever they want. It is not like filling the void – they are like a power plant. It is pouring out of them.

    They need something to project it on and are using us, because this has been done, so it’s easy; and because we are weak.

    Some of them will go with the “We are the new Israel” thing – see above, and others will spin something else.

    Yet these minions don’t matter. These are fools who have no thoughts of their own. Means of transportation.

    The big ones are who matter. I am wondering how to get to them, those are hiding out and wouldnt talk to us.

  55. anonymous[224] • Disclaimer says:
    @Adrian

    Yeah… right.

    We love Gilad. He knows that. You are hallucinating – what swarm of angry hornets? We love him. He is a good dude and he knows we love him.

    You need to get these hornets out of your head and chill out.

  56. anonymous[224] • Disclaimer says:
    @Eric135

    Eric have you ever tried to pass the Wechsler Adult Intelligence Scale test? You should do it. I am sure the result would surprise you.

    Good luck.

    • Replies: @Eric135
  57. @Reality Cheque

    wow you were also banned. Amazing he lets genocidal nuts rant.

  58. anonymous[224] • Disclaimer says:
    @Fran Taubman

    The pressure points, Fran. This is what these are: Palestine, the Talmud, et cetera. The trick is to accuse, to continue to accuse, to not stop. So as to make us be defensive, to make us make excuses, to make effort to explain, and none of this will help.

    Accuse them – show them their faces. You won’t need to make it up. Tell them how it is. Use real sources, reference true facts. Don’t let them drag it down and keep calm. Use humour. Humour is a good, tried Jewish weapon. No one is better at that than us.

    And as for this “mental issues” rational approach – it is not going to work, I can guarantee that. Some of these people do indeed have mental issues. You are not a shrink, so dealing with this is in fact dangerous. As long as dealing with them as with normal people, it is.

    There is a phenomenon called induction. That is when someone sick makes other people sick, through his feelings and thoughts. You get engaged with one of them in an argument and then it feels like something bad got inside. Be careful with them.

    Alright?

  59. Eric135 says:
    @anonymous

    Eric have you ever tried to pass the Wechsler Adult Intelligence Scale test? You should do it. I am sure the result would surprise you.

    I already know what my IQ is.

    I think you should be concerned about yours.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  60. Eric135 says:

    “Oy vey, we poor Jews. We never hurt anyone, we’re so talented and special. Why do they hate us? They must be jealous….”

    Collective self-delusion is an amazing thing.

    • Agree: Jon Baptist
  61. @Fran Taubman

    For me the whole point is that there is a behavioral protocol for all humans. It is against the laws of nature to behave towards one group any group bound together by religion or race in a inhuman fashion and ascribe evil and blame..

    Behaving inhumanely (I assume this just means human engagement with violence and deceit) and ascribing blame are separate issues though. One is to do with psychology and morality, the other to do with an accurate examination of evidence.

    If you think that an accurate exposure of evidence of an individual’s or group’s actions (assuming that group is united by an idea, not some physical and consciously uncontrollable thing like genes) = inhumanity, then you recoil at accurate descriptions of events – and are therefore prone to self-deception. You are not being inhuman for this, just flawed.

    We can disagree on whether the evidence provided by either side is accurate of course, but this would be a dry debate on the facts of the matter, not a discussion of either side’s humanity. And if at some point one side’s evidence becomes overwhelming, and was not recognised, yes, that then would become self-deceit too, and would be unbeneficial for those that keep to their inaccurate beliefs, just as it would be unbeneficial for those that they try and force their inaccurate beliefs on (given that reason and evidence is against them, and so not an option).

    Here goes one accurate statement as an example: The Anglos for all practical purposes genocided two continents due to their belief that the natives were savages. North America and Australia (they tried it on NZ too, but were just a bit too close to modernity). Am I being violent or deceitful when I state this? Not from my side – these are just historical facts, and no level of animus arises within me towards any thing when I say this. If historical facts, dryly stated, cause you to feel offended to the level of believing you are being violated by the speaker, then for your own psychological benefit, you should either stop engaging with history, or figure out why you feel violated by them, and look for a conscious way to climb out of such a turn in your mind when dry historical discussion comes up!

    Is this lack of desire (or inability) to separate reason from emotion why Judaism lacked history for 1600 years then?

    And you frame ‘Jew hatred’ as a disease? What do we always do with disease?! Exterminate it! There, you are on the first psychological step towards craving genocide of those you will subjectively – since you naturally recoil at the objectivity of evidence – judge as diseased. But I assume this will be justified through saying a disease is not a human, and therefore you are not in a state of cognitive dissonance when you state:

    that Jews would be involved in any sort of mass murder is unthinkable

    (isn’t calling people a disease – not even ascribing blame, actually remoulding them into some notional untermenschen – in line with your conception of inhumanity?)

    Personally, I see the ideology of the Jewish faith (the faith’s views and actions with respect to the out-group) to be very negative. To me there is a large spiritual indifference to non-Jews, not an equanimity. But I see the religion (the part of the faith to do with self improvement, or the in group) to be very positive, and those Jews that engage in their religion over their ideology – all my Jewish friends are such, and I have no major reason to critique their behaviours. Those Jews that I meet that mostly wish to change others, are generally very forceful – not violent – but certainly rigid of mind, and make it hard to keep conversation within the realm of facts and reason.

    Anecdotally, imo a nation living as a minority in foreign lands, with no historical interest in farming (and therefore without historical food security), will naturally be constantly and consistently fearful (it’s not paranoia – we all need food security first and foremost), and fear makes people act ‘inhumanely’. The Jewish people do need land security through a nation of their own, but where they are welcome. They could make themselves welcome anywhere of course, but that would require to stop looking at people that critique them as ‘diseased’.

    As the Buddha said on the first page of the Sutta Pitaka about criticism:

    5. “If, bhikkhus, others speak in dispraise of me, or in dispraise of the Dhamma, or in dispraise of the Sangha, you should not give way to resentment, displeasure, or animosity against them in your heart. For if you were to become angry or upset in such a situation, you would only be creating an obstacle for yourselves. If you were to become angry or upset when others speak in dispraise of us, would you be able to recognize whether their statements are rightly or wrongly spoken?”

    “Certainly not, Lord.”

    “If, bhikkhus, others speak in dispraise of me, or in dispraise of the Dhamma, or in dispraise of the Sangha, you should unravel what is false and point it out as false, saying: ‘For such and such a reason this is false, this is untrue, there is no such thing in us, this is not found among us.’

    6. “And if, bhikkhus, others speak in praise of me, or in praise of the Dhamma, or in praise of the Sangha, you should not give way to jubilation, joy, and exultation in your heart. For if you were to become jubilant, joyful, and exultant in such a situation, you would only be creating an obstacle for yourselves. If others speak in praise of me, or in praise of the Dhamma, or in praise of the Sangha, you should acknowledge what is fact as fact, saying: ‘For such and such a reason this is a fact, this is true, there is such a thing in us, this is found among us.’

    https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/dn/dn.01.0.bodh.html

    • Replies: @Ilya G Poimandres
  62. @Ilya G Poimandres

    Apologies, you don’t define the people as a disease, as much as their hatred. That point becomes somewhat weaker then! 🙂

    • Replies: @anonymous
  63. anonymous[224] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ilya G Poimandres

    Your point not becomes weaker, it in fact prooves that she was right. You have been predisposed and biased to think she was calling people a desease. Is that rational? And look closer at this:

    Is this lack of desire, or inability to separate reason from emotion why Judaism lacked history for 1600 years then?

    You haven’t heard about the great Jewish historian Josephus? And Judaism is a religion, it is not science. A religion doesn’t speak in terms of historical frame of reference. You are beside the point here.

    I see the ideology of the Jewish faith to be very negative. To me there is a large spiritual indifference to non-Jews, not an equanimity.

    You know the Jewish faith? From what – Michael Hoffman’s book? You know what Darchei Shalom is? “The path of peace.”

    It is said in the Proverbs 3:13, “Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, and the man that getteth understanding. She is more precious than rubies: and all the things thou canst desire are not to be compared unto her. Her ways are ways of pleasantness, and all her paths are peace.”

    And the Talmud teaches this: “Our Rabbis have taught: We support the poor of the heathen along with the poor of Israel, and visit the sick of the heathen along with the sick of Israel, in the interests of peace.” – Gittin 61a

    And Midrash teaches, “God will wipe away tears from off all faces. This means from the faces of non-Jews as well as Jews.” – Genesis Rabbah, p. 56. You don’t know the Jewish faith.

    They could make themselves welcome anywhere of course, but that would require to stop looking at people that critique them as ‘diseased’.

    Had this critique been reasonable no one would be thinking like that. But this critique is based on lies and slander. And for some reason it is impossible to talk to the people who seem to be obsessed with this “critique” and thus, there is some kind of a mental problem here. Not on our side – we are open to a talk.

    I recommend reading not what gentiles write about Jews but what Jews write for Jews. For example, look up this article: Who isn’t a Jew? – My Jewish Learning, see what Jews write about non-Jews for Jews.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @Ilya G Poimandres
  64. anonymous[224] • Disclaimer says:
    @Eric135

    Did you manage to pass above the Borderline, Eric?

  65. AaronB says:
    @anonymous

    Youre making a good faith effort, but you’re dealing with people of bad faith.

    I used to bring these positive quotes about non Jews all the time. Ilya will ignore it, and them return later with his same points on another thread.

    Its not about the truth about Judaism. That’s a smokescreen for them.

    Still, I applaud your efforts. You may reach objective observers reading this thread.

    • Replies: @Ilya G Poimandres
  66. @anonymous

    Your point not becomes weaker, it in fact proves that she was right. You have been predisposed and biased to think she was calling people a disease. Is that rational?

    No, not rational – hungover. Excuses excuses, but there you go – I spotted it and outed my error as soon as I could. I maintain the language is still incredibly negative. Calling people diseased (the hatred is ‘theirs’, so the disease is ‘theirs’) is akin to calling them cockroaches or whatnot, and no one likes where that line of thinking leads.. and it’s not many interpretive jumps before genocide anyways – one more than what I said.

    I try and tackle the Talmud on sefaria.org slowly to see what Judaism is about. When I speak of ideology I speak of Shammai and when I speak of religion I speak of Hillel – unfortunately Hillel did not do well imo.

    Thank you for the article – the conclusion is telling in its obfuscation:

    So, must a Jew believe in God? In a sense, it depends how you define four words: “must,” “Jew,” “believe,” and, of course, “God.”

    In short: probably. And probably not.

    How about reading Israel Shahak? He pretty Jewish. This is an article written by a Jew! Josephus was 2nd century – so add 1600 years and get to 1700-1800, enlightenment ideas forced onto the orthodox Jewish communities, and historians. I will admit I am wrong if you can point me to any Jewish historian after Josephus and before the 1700s! How about Toaff and Blood Libel? He surely has the necessary blood lineage, being the son of the Rabbi of Rome!

    BTW I will agree I went slightly off reservation a year ago when I lifted my veil of ignorance on the faith (because I just took people’s words on it, due to it not being particularly interesting to me), but am back to fair criticism imo – the philosemetic voices on this site certainly helped, as much as it is accused of furthering anti-semitism.

    Anyways, Judaism is esoteric – it hides its teaching from Gentiles:

    And Rabbi Yoḥanan says: A gentile who engages in Torah study is liable to receive the death penalty; as it is stated: “Moses commanded us a law [torah], an inheritance of the congregation of Jacob” (Deuteronomy 33:4), indicating that it is an inheritance for us, and not for them.

    It is apartheidistic (not a word really). There are too many examples of this: a Gentile is not allowed to have a day of rest (even a Monday), a Jew is not punished in this world for killing Gentiles, but a Gentile is to be sentenced to death for killing a Jew, etc etc.

    “the best of Gentiles, kill it” etc.

    I follow Dhamma – there is not one incitation to violence within the Sutta Pitaka, but I will be the first to admit that even that plain text message has been turned into violence in history by people claiming to be following the Buddha’s message and practice.

    I find general Jewish opinions about their religion to be, to use a strong word, deluded. There is a lot of violence in the Torah and Talmud, a lot of praise of violent actions, and the history of Jews is littered with horrors. Tell me – how is carving the name Akum into a rock, and getting kids to throw stones at it, in any way a reflection on the events and actions of the actors of that historical genocide? Is it not just a ritualistic re-enactment of genocide? With all the psychopathy inducing psychology. How is the commandment to burn the New Testament whenever offered it as a gift, not a disavowal of reason for the emotion of hate?

    There is almost no honest discussion of the errors of Jewish faith and its people from within the nation of Israel in general. The ones that do are outed as self-haters, because reasoned, critical argument is, instead, considered to be evidence of emotional trauma.

    And we are back at square one!

    • Replies: @anonymous
  67. @AaronB

    But do I only speak of the negative points of Judaism, or do I mention the positive ones too?

    Define bad faith please! 🙂

    ‘The truth about Judaism’. Would this be enclosed within the Torah and Talmud? Maimonides? Further thinkers? You say it should not be redacted because it is a memory of the people. I agree it should not be expunged from memory, but should every word no longer followed remain within the core texts that carries the spiritual message? I have enough Jews telling me ‘we don’t follow this, we don’t follow that’, and fair dos – some of the message is for a different time-place. But saying ‘don’t update anything’ – is that not just a strict constructionism that pushes the faith closer either to revolution (over reasoned evolution), or death – through an inadequacy in dealing with the issues of the faithful, in the here and now? The two nations that side with strict constructionism these days – Sunni Islam and the US, how are they doing? Imo they are both pretty close to revolution and death, respectively.

    I return with similar points because often the core of my point is avoided. My main point in the above writing was: inhumanity (violence or deceit in short form, imo) and analysing cause and effect are not strongly correlated (they are not independent – no thing within this experience is). This was the crux of the issue for me, and I spent a fair amount of text talking about that. Where in the response was there any consideration of this issue?

    With respect to Jewish ideology, ok, I generalise and step over the mark – there are positive statements within the Talmud with respect to Gentiles. I should be clearer of course, but my slightly learned feeling (and I acknowledge that it is not my knowledge – I am not a Rabbi!), is that the faith tends towards indifference towards Gentiles (don’t save only drowning Gentiles, don’t circumcise a Gentile for any reason other than if they wish to follow the Law (even if it is for their medical benefit)), rather than equanimity. This is unbenefical for the Jewish faith and its practitioners imo, as much as it is unbeneficial for the Gentiles that come into contact with such faith.

    I like the conversations here – point me to what you consider learning. I won’t stop following Dhamma, same as I neither expect nor want you to stop following Judaism, but we may understand more of what we have faith in!

  68. anonymous[224] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ilya G Poimandres

    How about reading Israel Shahak? He pretty Jewish. This is an article written by a Jew!

    Shahak was a bullshit artist. He wrote that book for non-Jews. He was laughed at in Israel for all the bullshit he wrote. His book is so illiterate that indeed it’s better to read that “Judaism Discovered” crap. Shahak made it up from beginning to end. I don’t know, what his problem was and what made him do it, but one thing is for sure it wasn’t to enlighten people. He wanted to instigate as much hate toward religious Jews as possible. Some people in Israel hate them.

    His book I could take paragraph after paragraph and explain in detail how he made it up, but it is such a crude piece of crap that it doesn’t deserve attention. Forget about it.

    How about Toaff and Blood Libel? He surely has the necessary blood lineage, being the son of the Rabbi of Rome!

    Yes, being a son of a rabbi doesn’t guarantee high intelligence. And I have seen mediocre Jews but believe it or not I’ve never seen a dumb one. Let’s suppose there is a group of Jews who practice some kind of black magic, including sacrifices. First thing these people would do is to dispose the bodies: no one wants to be caught, tortured and burned at the stake. Bodies can be dismembered, fed to dogs, burned. I can’t imagine a group of Jews who would leave bodies with the traces of black magic ritual on them to be found.

    Bullshit. As far as I know, Toaff wrote that such a sect might have existed. However, might have doesn’t mean it did.

    Anyways, Judaism is esoteric – it hides its teaching from Gentiles. “A gentile who engages in Torah study is liable to receive the death penalty; as it is stated: Moses commanded us a law, an inheritance of the congregation of Jacob, indicating that it is an inheritance for us, and not for them.”

    So where is the rest of the passage? Sanhedrin 59a.

    “An objection is raised: R. Meir used to say, Whence do we know that even a heathen who studies the Torah is as a High Priest? From the verse, Ye shall therefore keep my statutes, and my judgments: which, if man do, he shall live in them. Priests, Levites, and Israelites are not mentioned, but men: hence thou mayest learn that even a heathen who studies the Torah is as a High Priest!”

    Read it in full, this is dialectics. And I recommend to use the Soncino translation on Halakha com. A much more readable text.

    It is apartheidistic. There are too many examples of this: a Gentile is not allowed to have a day of rest, a Jew is not punished in this world for killing Gentiles, but a Gentile is to be sentenced to death for killing a Jew, etc. “The best of Gentiles, kill it” etc.

    During that period no one had a concept of a rest on a week-end, but Jews. Christians adopted this idea from Jews. But for Jews this is a commandment, and since a heathen is not a Jew, he cannot practice Judaism; he must first convert. And this is an ancient book.

    A Jew is of course punished for killing a gentile, though is not to be sentenced to death, and a gentile for killing a Jew would be, but again, this is an ancient book. Such were the laws of that time.

    “The best of the gentiles, kill him” is a part of the phrase: “The best of the gentiles, kill him at the time of war” and it comes from a treatise in which war tactics is discussed; this particular phrase is in the chapter dedicated to wars between nations. Kill the leader – normal thing at war.

    I follow Dhamma – there is not one incitation to violence within the Sutta Pitaka… There is a lot of violence in the Torah and Talmud, a lot of praise of violent actions, and the history of Jews is littered with horrors.

    Nothing is more littered with horrors that the historical wasteland of the European nations, friend. Nothing comes even close. There is a lot of violence in the Bible, much less in the Talmud and none in the Kabbalah. This is one of the core differences between the Jewish religion and that of Christians, or Buddhism: the last two pledge allegiance to some idealistic life of non-violence and then commit all possible transgressions of that, whereas in Judaism the approach is realistic.

    You can’t avoid violence; so how do we deal with it? These issues must be addressed, the questions answered. And as the result, Jews have a better integrated set of values, with no contradictions between religious ideals and the real world in which these need to be implemented. Buddhism perished in India, and is no more there. I like Buddhism, but that is a religion of monks. You can’t practice Dhamma. You are a secular man, spending time in the Internet. To abstain from such actions is one of the principles of the teaching.

    Tell me – how is carving the name Akum into a rock, and getting kids to throw stones at it, is a reflection on the events and actions of the actors of that historical genocide? How is the commandment to burn the New Testament whenever offered it as a gift, not a disavowal of reason for the emotion of hate?

    You mean, Haman? The tradition is to write his name on a stone and to blot it out, to erase it with another stone. Not “akum” which refers to gentiles, but Haman, the man who tried to blot out Jews. Yes, that is not a too sophisticated tradition; I admit Judaism is not without oddness but it isn’t some satanic cult of a misanthropic tribe, as people here think.

    No such commandment – to burn the New Testament, has ever existed.

    There is almost no honest discussion of the errors of Jewish faith and its people from within the nation of Israel in general. The ones that do are outed as self-haters, because reasoned, critical argument is, instead, considered to be evidence of emotional trauma.

    First of all, there is an expression in English that I like a lot: mind your own business. Discuss that pedophile priest thing. Discuss mega-churches, massacres and tortures, and Satanism. There’s a lot of things to discuss. Read about the Order of Nine Angels. Discuss them.

    And second, here I am and I am honest; there are people on the Talk Reason site, who are honest and there are opinions. Judaism is not a strict dogma; people can have opinions. “In a sense, it depends how you define it” – that is, in a sense, it is a must to have an opinion. No opinion – no understanding.

    • Replies: @Ilya G Poimandres
  69. @anonymous

    I admit Judaism is not without oddness but it isn’t some satanic cult of a misanthropic tribe.

    I agree it is not, and I mention the writers critical of the faith on your first quote to offer a counterpoint to the saintly image that Jews – both religious and not – tend to portray. In short, my issue is with the approach of Judaism to non-Jews (as I continue on my distinction between Jewish religion and Jewish ideology).

    MISHNA: On the three days before the festivals of gentiles the following actions are prohibited, as they would bring joy to the gentile, who would subsequently give thanks to his object of idol worship on his festival: It is prohibited to engage in business with them; to lend items to them or to borrow items from them; to lend money to them or to borrow money from them; and to repay debts owed to them or to collect repayment of debts from them. Rabbi Yehuda says: One may collect repayment of debts from them because this causes the gentile distress. The Rabbis said to Rabbi Yehuda: Even though he is distressed now, when he repays the money, he is happy afterward that he is relieved of the debt, and therefore there is concern that he will give thanks to his object of idol worship on his festival.

    Avodah Zarah 2a (as an aside, I am curious – is the 1 missing because of a conceived closeness to Ad–ai?)

    There is a misconception of action (kamma) and result of action (vipaka) within Judaism imo. It is the Gentile’s paganism that causes them harm. A Jew is not the cause of the pagan’s failure, nor does he ‘provide a ladder’ if they stop business with them before their pagan festivals. If the intention is to help the Gentile to not commit idolatry, then only open discussion to convince them of their errors is the correct path. Sweeping their errors under a carpet they don’t know about, so they don’t get into trouble in your mind, is not helping them improve their intentional actions – it is just keeping them ignorant of their own errors. You say ‘mind your own business’.. Then engage in business with them etc – their own idolatry is not your burden to carry!!

    Additionally, is ‘mind your own business’ a reasonable statement for a peoples who have for two millennia existed in a diaspora scattered across other nations, and even now when living within the modern nation of Israel, still interact both individually, and as a group, with the other nations of the world? I live in London, and am originally a mix of eastern Slav.. Jewish communities have certainly not ‘minded their own business’ and existed and prospered – even at the expense of their host societies – within the territories of these states. I agree with the laws of Xenia, but even they allow for questions after a food, a bath, and some rest! If – granted sometimes mistaken – criticism, but absent ill will, is deemed illegal.. does this mean Jewish societies within other cultures wish to be entirely independent? Even before the emancipation of the 1800s Jews, whilst living in their own societies, interacted with their host societies.

    And I would actually say this is what the Jewish people need – to have their own land, and to be left alone for a couple of centuries! Then the feeling of insecurity brought about from 1800 years of wandering would calm, and there would be less of that pre traumatic stress disorder that Gilad talks about.

    As for not being able to avoid violence? Sure you can. Man, being the highest life form possible within experience – because Man has access to all possible abstract ideas, and can act on any such abstraction they pull out, even in a limited absolute way with respect to themselves – can avoid violence completely just by engaging in that abstraction absolutely. If you disagree, then Jews can’t avoid breaking each and every of the 613 commandments (unless the commitment to not eating pig is different from the commitment to non-violence somehow).

    I’ll check out Talk Reason. I like places where a larger fraction of commenters enjoys a good chat without throwing insults at each other, thanks!

    • Replies: @anonymous
  70. anonymous[224] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ilya G Poimandres

    Avodah Zarah 2a (as an aside, I am curious – is the 1 missing because of a conceived closeness to Ad–ai?)

    No; chapter 1 starts from folio 2 page a. Page 1 is a drawing of some kind. The numeration follows that of the manuscript.

    There is a misconception of action (kamma) and result of action (vipaka) within Judaism imo. It is the Gentile’s paganism that causes them harm.

    You misunderstand what is going on there. That translation on Sefaria is something new and incomplete. As far as I understand it is from the Chabad and I would not recommend it. I don’t know if I can post a link here without a Handle but here is the same page in the Soncino translation.

    https://halakhah.com/pdf/nezikin/Avodah_Zarah.pdf

    This translation was done by a super respectable scholar and not someone whose name is not mentioned anywhere. The text speaks of עובדי כוכבים – that is, idolaters. Not that it doesn’t mean gentiles but there are differences and it is stressed in the Soncino translation so it is easier to understand what the deal is.

    And the deal is that Jews are prohibited from participation in idol worship and in general Judaism forbids all kinds of idol worship for all people. This is one of the commandments all people are supposed to follow, if we believe in God. To worship an idol is to worship a fake god. So for example if a Christian needs to close a business deal before Christmas and his business is with Jews he shouldn’t be given a hand at that time because then he goes to a church and stands before an wooden doll and sings – Jesus, oh Jesus! How I love you, Jesus! Thanks a lot, Jesus! Thanks for help!

    And this would be the result of the actions of the Jews who helped him, but he wouldn’t think about that – he would think that Jesus helped him, and Jesus is an idol with which he talks. Hence the Jews he dealt with would in that case be the reason of his enthusiasm and encourage his idol worship, and thus transgress the commandment.

    If the intention is to help the Gentile to not commit idolatry, then only open discussion to convince them of their errors is the correct path.

    Yeah… right.

    You say ‘mind your own business’. Then engage in business with them etc – their own idolatry is not your burden to carry!

    The earth is small and people are ignorant and mean. Jews are not forcing Judaism on gentiles and never have, but gentiles have been forcing the fake religions upon other gentiles and Jews as well, in the most brutal manner possible. This is a struggle of ideas here. And Jews do it without using force.

    As for not being able to avoid violence? Sure you can. Man, being the highest life form possible… can avoid violence.

    Tell this to a Negro with a gun and gold chain. Tell this to a horde of barbarians. I think the Dalai Lama said something similar to Mao Zedong.

  71. @Adrian

    Oh Please you are defending Hanan Ashwarei the Palestinian leader with the biggest Swiss bank account. That is who are defending?
    You are insufferable Adrian. You hate Jews which is fine but looking for all these stupid stories to back up your hate is cheap thrills. “oh look at what this guy says about Jews, must be true”, they beat and eat children. Haven’t you heard? Must be true this guy says it is so.” Look at this rioting againts the wonderful most human Hanan Ashwarei. I especially delight at your certainty, that don’t you know the Jews are the worst of the worst.

    I have big big news for you Adrian. The Jews are like every other peoples in the world, there exist among them the good the bad and the ugly.

    If you are looking for ugly look no further then the cottage industry that is the Palestinian peace process or euphemistically the corrupt cash cow of the Palestinian leaders, where they are supported by donations from around the world to the tune of billions. Billions of dollars go to them at the expense of their people. Ashwarei has a mega mansion outside of Ramallah to rail against those evil Zionist who occupy her land. What has she done to help the situation, or her people, with her big fat Swiss bank account which all those leaders have. To end the conflict would mean their income ends and they would have to get real jobs. They have no incentive to reconcile the conflict.

    Before Arafat died they had to send a scout to his wife’s bunker in Paris to find out how to access the billions in his Swiss bank account after he died. Yet the Palestinians are poor and could use real peace and prosperity.

    You want to see ugly? No you are not interested in ugly or good. You are interested in hating Jews.
    Stop your stupid stories about “look look those terrible cruel Jews” Get fucking lost.

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