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The Use of Low-IQ Troops in War Zone
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A presentation and reading by Hamilton Gregory, author of “McNamara’s Folly: The Use of Low-IQ Troops in the Vietnam.” Because so many college students were avoiding military service during the Vietnam War, Defense Secretary Robert McNamara lowered mental standards to induct 354,000 low-IQ men. they were known as McNamara’s “Moron Corps.” Their death toll in combat was appalling. Gregory indicates at the end of his talk that the situation didn’t really change. The same practice is taking place nowadays.

(Republished from Gilad Atzmon by permission of author or representative)
 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: American Military, IQ 
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  1. A123 says:

    All McNamara did is learn from history. If you want to criticize the forces that use low IQ troops in battle, you should start with the Muslims that invented the practice and enshrined as part of their religion.

    The starvation ritual of Ramadan produces children with neonatal damage. Lower IQ and more violent. The faith deliberately causes the birth of low IQ children to be used as shock troops. A much worse offense than anything McNamara did.

    PEACE 😇

  2. A lot of people mistake low IQ brutishness for genuine bravery and strength, which is why blacks are considered by many whites to be the toughest race and probably why they are favoured by the military.

    A big weakness of the US and UK militaries is the assumption that street thugs make the most effective and capable troops, in reality such people are often the most useless and cowardly in an actual war zone.

  3. The story is definitely true. Not only were there low moron troops but even the so called West Point graduates with no experience in war were complete idiots. It was a two fold fiasco because these graduates couldn’t read coordinates on maps and the morons couldn’t find them and thus they often bombed our own troops.

    There were a lot “friendly fire” deaths that were never reported. The carnage of Vietnam was a disgrace from poor military strategies to morons and incompetents running them. We were not prepared for the “Jungle Type Gorilla War” our leaders got us into and the results are told forever on the Vietnam Memorial in Washington. What did they die for? Another “Communist” are taking over Domino Policy when the true Communist Jews were running the stuff in the USA and destroying us.

    • Replies: @pyrrhus
    , @Weaver1
  4. SafeNow says:

    Two destroyers were recently collided into by slow-moving merchant ships. Someone said that this is like a Chevy Corvette being struck by a bulldozer on the Bonneville Salt Flats while a team of trained experts had the job of keeping the Corvette from being hit.

    • Replies: @Flo
    , @TooTrue
  5. @A123

    Any civilization that sends their Best and Brightest to the front lines is taking huge risks. Cannon fodder troops generally come (and should come) from the lower tiers of society. This promotes a nation’s long-term health and vitality.

    There is no starvation–only fasting–during Ramadan. Fasting occurs each day from sunrise to sundown. On the other hand, Israel’s high fertility rates among Orthodox and Sephardic Jews has dysgenics written all over it. This explains why Israel’s average IQ average remains below 100. Highly religious and less-intelligent Jews are producing a disproportionate number of the births inside Israel.

  6. Blankaerd says:

    It’s a lesson the US could’ve learned back in World War II. The US deployed black troops in France, and instead of proving that the blacks were just as capable fighters as the whites, the blacks engaged in typical black behavior of rape and thievery. It got so bad in areas like Cherbourg that the local population preferred the Germans over their supposed ‘liberators’.

    The same thing happened earlier in the war when the Allies deployed Moroccan mercenaries in Italy.
    After the battle of Monte Cassino, these savages could rape Italian women with impunity, they wouldn’t be stopped by the French, the British or indeed the Americans, and as a result more than 30.000 Italian women became victims of these vicious assaults.

    But I bet it was all in good faith of course, after all the US was making Europe safe for stali… I mean, ‘democracy’

    • Replies: @anarchyst
    , @Corvinus
  7. Flo says:
    @SafeNow

    In both cases, weren’t the USN ships helmed at the time of impact by women or minorities? I seem to remember reading this unfashionable detail. Can anyone here confirm or refute? Thanks.

    • Replies: @craig
    , @Alfred
  8. Paul says:

    Politicians did not want the war to become an issue among the affluent. It was the old adage about wars: “Rich men start them; poor men fight them.” There were plenty of chicken hawks around.

    • Replies: @Hunsdon
  9. peterAUS says:

    The article and comments, so far, are…interesting.

    A military is a tool of the ruling class/caste/layer/whatever. What is moronic, or not, is for them to decide. The only principle: is the tool good for the job?

    There are several very good reasons to have “low-level IQ” troops in the military, a modern war/combat in particular.

    In an infantry company of, say, 160 men, a smart O.C. would love to have 10-20 of those types. Plenty of jobs/assignments for them and definitely attributing to combat efficiency of the unit.
    Even better in logistics, especially in higher units/rear areas. Comparison: warehouse/storage facilities employees in civvy street.

    BTW, those guys, if/when properly treated (LEADERSHIP) can be utterly loyal and dependable. For “experts” around, there are plenty of miserable, mind-numbing jobs/tasks in the military, plus quite dangerous, which those guys shall do when others won’t. If….treated…properly……

    And, one more element, especially in contemporary wars: certain moral attitude, “relaxed” approach to human life and limb etc. Ability to commit acs of war other, more, say, smart, “sensitive” troops, are reluctant to do.
    Israel. IDF as the state tool to keep Palestinians under control.
    Occupation forces of The Empire in Afghanistan and Iraq.

    And one more thing: for suppressing possible internal unrest in a Western country …..For that job you really don’t want very intelligent/sensitive people.

    Etc.
    Big topic but, of course, not for this thread, for obvious reasons. Program.

    Sorry for the interruption, guys. Feel free to resume the “bashing”.

  10. KI says:
    @A123

    The low IQ in that part of the world is due to inbreeding, not the Ramadan starvation ritual which is not mandatory for everyone. Pregnant women, the sick, elderly and children are exempt from it.

    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
  11. Forrest Gump was an excellent soldier. I saw the documentary on him.

    • LOL: Realist
    • Replies: @Biff
  12. anon[102] • Disclaimer says:

    Infantry in Vietnam was known to be awful. Everyone in the military knew to avoid it. It was openly used as a threat for non-compliance to troops elsewhere.

    There were certainly exceptions. Some Marines, people wanting or needing to get their ticket punched, etc. But before anything, Vietnam Infantry was getting the dregs. Not that I doubt McNamera leaned into it as an opportunity.

    Why in the world did they want or need all these troops? Westmorland kept asking for more and more. After 500,000, per the pentagon papers, the JCS mood Westmorland that given US presence in Europe, Japan, Korea, etc., there were no more extra troops.

    Too bad that the US military has made a cottage industry out of revisionist accounts regarding how it could have been “won”. Showing a remarkable lack of insight into what it means to win.

  13. Biff says:
    @Tim from Nashua

    Forrest Gump was an excellent soldier. I saw the documentary on him.

    Me too! He took one right in the ass.

  14. @A123

    Interesting to see how a conniving Jew takes a piece about Vietnam and uses it to further his objective of trying (quite unsuccessfully, one infers) to generate sympathy for the Judenreich. He then doubles down with a further tangent leading somehow to Ramadan (!) It’s almost comical how transparent Jew scheming has become. It makes one wonder if the Hasbara brigades have had to go low-IQ at this point?

    • Agree: L.K
    • Replies: @TooTrue
  15. I look forward to seeing the effect all those affirmative action US military academy graduates have on US combat readiness. 😂

    All those Navy ships running into each other in Asia last year? A bucket of the Colonel’s extra crispy says that we were seeing diversity in action.

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
  16. @anon

    Not true.

    Both in terms of IQ and class background, infantry in Vietnam were generally representative of the general population. As one author assessed, “If they [soldiers in combat units] were not the social and intellectual cream of American youth, neither were they its dregs or castoffs.”

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  17. @mark green

    Worst than that, the Haredi are largely a bunch of welfare moochers. Dad spends his days at the yeshiva studying the Jewish equivalent of how many angels can dance on the end of a pin.

    The secular Jews who staff the workforce and military have a lower birthrate.

    Survival of the least fit.

    • Replies: @Kratoklastes
  18. @A123

    Sorry A that sounds racist, no ethnic group is below IQ as a group.
    It sounds racist, like the way they talk about the Jews ascribing all sorts of things that one Jew is accused of to all the Jews.
    Children do not fast during Ramadan.

    • Replies: @Vinnie O
  19. Hunsdon says:
    @Paul

    Paul, a sadly passed friend of mine used to phrase it as “A rich man’s war and a poor man’s fight.”

    • Replies: @Kratoklastes
  20. Republic says:

    Kissinger quote:

    Military men are dumb,stupid animals to be used as as pawns in foreign poiicy

  21. nI saw the author of the book give at talk. I believe it was at a Tennessee Unversity. What he described he saw as an enlisted man if I remember correctly. He was sent to OCS later and sounded a very decent man. The conditions were awful for these guys. They were treated as expendable be peers and officers alike.

    I wonder how the IDF works this issue out. The Israelis are masters of the universe at everything don’t you know. They are utter geniuses.

  22. @Ris_Eruwaedhiel

    Survival of the least fit

    You’re conflating productivity (‘economic fitness’) with fecundity.

    ‘Survival of the fittest’ is a tautology, because ‘fit’ in this context simply means ‘able to pass on genetic traits’… in the relevant context.

    A religious whackball who ties a box to his head and rocks like a mental patient is obviously likely to be economically unproductive… that’s pretty clear.

    But they live in a context – being the recipient of transfers of people too stupid to stop getting bilked by moochers and grifters because of some stupid imaginary solidarity.

    So their strategy is ‘fit’: they get to do their primitive horse-shit and play dressups and wear silly hats, underwritten by a society that has 21st century fixes for when their schtick is proved retarded. Well, up until they fuck too many near-relatives, and their vaunted invisible sky maniac gives their kids Tay-Sachs..

  23. @Hunsdon

    Or the line in a movie I watched a few years ago about the British savagery in Northern Ireland…

    War is rich cunts sending thick cunts to kill poor cunts.

    War is a racket – Smedley Butler was right. But so was Randolph Bourne: war is the health of the State. https://www.panarchy.org/bourne/state.1918.html

    • Replies: @England patriot
  24. anarchyst says:
    @Blankaerd

    Emmett Till’s father was executed by the U S military for multiple rapes…

    • Replies: @byrresheim
  25. AaronB says:
    @A123

    I would not mock Muslims for fasting during Ramadan. It is a beautiful tradition – and spiritually very significant. Judaism also recommends frequent and lengthy fasts.

    There are many problems with modern Islam, violence, fanaticism, especially against Sufis, its most spiritual element, and a general degradation and loss of spirituality, but Ramadan fasts are not the problem.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  26. @AaronB

    ‘…There are many problems with modern Islam, violence, fanaticism, especially against Sufis, its most spiritual element, and a general degradation and loss of spirituality…’

    Sufis aside, you could be describing another faith, couldn’t you?

    • Replies: @AaronB
  27. @A123

    You CRETIN! Muslim men all must fight when required. Selection of specific troops isn’t in Islam’s history, ever.

  28. @Kratoklastes

    The Irish Catholics have committed plenty of savagery over the centuries, they are supremacist bigots who refuse to share the land with Protestant “Brits” (as they see it) despite the fact they have been there centuries. If Britain wasn’t protecting NI, the Protestants would have been genocided there like they were in the South.

    I guess you’re a typical anti-British American? Sadly many British people are very pro-American despite the fact that most of Americans are very anti-British and always side with the Irish republicans and funded the IRA for many years. British people who think the US is going to have a favourable attitude to Brexit Britain are delusional, they hate this country politically and historically.

  29. @Oscar Peterson

    I think it’s fair to say the same thing as was said of British troops in WWI, “Lions led by donkeys”

  30. Realist says:
    @mark green

    Any civilization that sends their Best and Brightest to the front lines is taking huge risks. Cannon fodder troops generally come (and should come) from the lower tiers of society. This promotes a nation’s long-term health and vitality.

    Be that as it may some of the dumbest son of a bitches on earth, are in or, have a college degree and it’s getting worse.

  31. Realist says:

    Defense Secretary Robert McNamara lowered mental standards

    Just as his boss (Johnson) did in keeping him in his administration. And Johnson, not on the right side of the curve is another example. As I remember they lost the Vietnam war. And the beat goes on.

  32. @anarchyst

    That is a fact only known to badpeople.
    Shame on you.

  33. craig says:
    @Flo

    In the USS Fitzgerald collision that was true: see here and follow the associated links.

  34. Malla says:
    @A123

    Unless it is pregnant women fasting during Ramadan or newly borns I do not see how fasting during Ramadan can cause low IQ. And I believe, correct me if I am wrong (any Muslims here), the above two groups as well as others like extremely old and infirm, sick people etc… are excepted from fasting on Ramadan.

  35. I wonder if Gilad Atzmon was conducting a little experiment with this post. His usual focus is almost without exception Israel, Jews in the diaspora and their schemes.

    This post is virtually his only one not to deal in some way with those topics.

    He probably said to himself, “I wonder if a post something totally unrelated to my usual topics, will the discussion follow the actual topic or automatically revert to the traditional subjects no matter what I post.”

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  36. @Oscar Peterson

    Not much of a post. Just a link to video with a short paragraph intro.

  37. Vinnie O says:
    @Fran Taubman

    “no ethnic group is below IQ as a group.”

    Ya might wanna actually READ something about IQ scores by race, starting with Charles Murray. The mean IQ for North Europeans (and many Americans) is 100, with a standard deviation of 15.

    The mean IQ for sub-Saharan Africans is 85, with a standard deviation of 10. So average/normal Africans are “below average” Europeans. They’ve been running the tests since the mid-20th century. The facts are VERY well established.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
    , @Bill Jones
  38. AaronB says:
    @Colin Wright

    Hasidim are Jewish Sufis.

    But mainstream Judaism has done a better job at integrating the mystical elements into its tradition.

    A situation like what happened not so long ago in Egypt, where Muslims massacred Sufi worshippers – one cannot imagine orthodox Jews going into Williamsburg and massacring Hasidic worshippers. It’s inconceivable.

    Islam is, unfortunately, in a very unhealthy place right now. The kind of violence that one sees there, against themselves and others, is inconceivable among other faiths at the moment.

    But more fasting is needed for Muslims, not less.

    • Agree: Fran Taubman
  39. @Vinnie O

    But that is not about an ethnic group, that is about a location “Sub-Saharan Africa”.
    The Ethiopians have very high IQ.
    Nothing is universal, and it is more about opportunity and education then genetics.

  40. Vinnie O says:

    College guys were ONLY exempt while in college. When I went to Signal Officer Basic in 1972, there was a guy there who had joined 2-year ROTC after the lottery numbers came out. He and 2 of his friends compared their lottery numbers in a bar and the TOTAL for all 3 guys was less than 10.

    On the other hand, several years later I went through Artillery Officer Advanced, and one of our instructors explained that Field Artillery had the highest washout rate in the Army (because too many guys couldn’t do the INCREDIBLY basic math). You were more likely to flunk Artillery than Helicopter school. But on the up-side, when he was a Fire Direction Officer (FDO) in Vietnam, ALL of the enlisted men in his BATTERY FDC (Fire Direction Center) had college degrees and one even had his masters. Once the draft ended, all those smart enlisted guys simply disappeared.

    On the other hand, during WW2, the 9th US Cavalry (Buffalo Soldiers) was sent to the Pacific and upon arrival the ENTIRE division was reclassified as “stevedores” (arguably the stupidest MOS in the Army). So commanders have to learn to deal with the raw material they’re given. I think the ONLY US soldier EXECUTED by court martial in WW2 was one of the converted stevedores who “raped” a White nurse. There was some discussion of how much was “against her will”.

  41. @Kolya Krassotkin

    Don’t forget the Norwegian frigate with females manning the bridge. IIRC the (male) captain was asleep.It’s still on the seabed.

    https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2018/11/22/gender-politics-and-sinking-of-knm-helge-ingstad/

    https://www.newsinenglish.no/2018/11/12/collision-drama-aired-on-tapes/

    The tanker first tried to identify the vessel via maritime traffic radio, without immediate success. It was told by those on duty at the maritime traffic central at Fedje that the unidentified vessel had not reported its presence.

    When the frigate Helge Ingstad, returning to home port in Bergen after taking part in NATO’s huge Trident Juncture military exercise off Trondheim, eventually confirmed “yes, it’s us,” the tanker’s radioed warnings directly to the frigate on a collision course went unheeded.

    “Turn starboard (right) at once,” an urgent voice from the tanker is heard on audio logs of the radio communication obtained and aired publicly by VG on Saturday evening.

    A voice from the frigate, which earlier had been silent, objected, stating it would then “come too close” to sea markers set up for navigation in the area. It’s earlier been reported that the frigate, sailing at a speed of 17 knots, had made itself invisible on radar. Other vessels couldn’t see it on their instruments.

    After the frigate confirmed its presence, the tanker issued more warnings: “You have to do something, you’re beginning to really close in (on us).”

    There was no response. “Helge Ingstad! Drei (turn)!” demanded a voice from the tanker. No response. “There’s going to be a collision here, then. Turn!”

    It was too late.

  42. @AaronB

    It is mind boggling how on this site, the hypocrisy of discrimination between Jews and Muslims, for no other reason other then Jews are winners and the Muslims are losers.
    Sort of a pile on. Islam has so much to answer for and to blame the death and destruction in Arab Muslim lands on Jews is laughable.

    Any student of the region knows that if the Jews were another Arab muslim mix the fighting would be more intensified not less.
    Islam has not been able to move the ball forward to replacing violence and Jihad with economics and innovation, it scares them so much to compete on that level that they are always looking for a boogy man a scape goat, thus the Jews, which is so self destructive, because the

    Jews have all the skill sets that they are missing. If the Arabs were not sitting on all that oil, they would be like sub Sahara Africa.
    The Jews had no oil but yet used hard work and ingenuity for their achievements and all the Arab muslims can come with is the land is stolen, which is such propaganda.
    It is hard to understand Gilad and his racist ideology really mind boggling, he and his followers are just irrational hatters. If you look at Islam in the same critical light as Judaism, hands down Judaism is light years ahead in terms of helping their masses.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  43. DrWatson says:
    @Fran Taubman

    The average IQ of an Ethiopian is 69 according to https://brainstats.com/average-iq-in-ethiopia.html
    Is that very high for you?

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @Angharad
  44. AaronB says:
    @Fran Taubman

    I think any normal person understands Islam is in a significantly worse moral and spiritual state than Judaism today, even the anti-Semites on this site.

    And this is an unfortunate fact that should be lamented – at its best, Islam can be an appealing religion.

    I wouldn’t take their hatred of Jews seriously – they are extremely ignorant about Judaism.

    As you say, their sole reason for picking sides is because Jews are winners today, and Muslims are losers, and this has symbolic meaning for them because they are bitter and resentful about their own failures in life.

    It’s a purely symbolic and emotional issue for them – facts and logic don’t matter. Its not actually about Jews and Muslims at all, and the more honest among them sometimes admit that.

    But you are absolutely right – I am in certain ways highly critical of Judaism today and think it can do a better job returning to its core spiritual values, but it is clearly in a far healthier place morally and spiritually than its neighbors.

  45. @England patriot

    “Courage is knowing you might get hurt but saddling up anyway.
    Stupidity is the same thing.
    That is why life is so hard!” – Old Vaquero saying. (True West Mag.)

  46. @England patriot

    @England patriot

    I guess you’re a typical anti-British American? Sadly many British people are very pro-American despite the fact that most of Americans are very anti-British and always side with the Irish republicans and funded the IRA for many years. British people who think the US is going to have a favourable attitude to Brexit Britain are delusional, they hate this country politically and historically.

    I don’t know where you get this idea from, I’ve travelled to and around the USA 8 times, and lived in a country where Americans were a very significant number of the expats and where the vast majority of my customers (in that country) were Americans; if they hate the English/British they certainly keep it very well hidden!

    The worst I’ve experienced from Americans on account of me being English has been indifference.

    I can recall a chippy Irish-American customer, but it didn’t amount to much.

    Over the years, 3 mates/colleagues have emigrated to the USA, I’ve lost touch with one, but the other two have settled down with American women and seem very happy and have been there for 20 years or so.

    Maybe it depends where you go, but out in the sticks, my experience has been they are mostly very polite and often very friendly.

    If I had plenty of money, I’d be very happy to move there myself – out in the sticks of course. Its a beautiful country and the people really are very nice and easy to get along with and we have a heck of a lot more in common with them than the MSM would have you believe.

    • Agree: RadicalCenter
  47. @AaronB

    Yes it is as clear as a bell, yet their propaganda finds interesting voices and believers like Gilad and Ron Unz. Astounding. Read below: sort of sums it up, by Melanie Phillips.

    People outside just do not get what is really going on over there, and how the Jews have given up on any peace plan. It is all or nothing for both sides, and the Jews are taking advantage of their situation right now avoiding any further erosion of land like they naively did for Gaza. They also do not care what the world thinks, because there is not world thought, only propaganda, the world lost site of the truth a long long time ago. The internet makes pretend that the world is against Israel. Don’t bet on it most of Europe hates Islam way more then they hate Jews.

    It is all a smoke and mirrors game. Just look at Gilads followers, most of them are basket case Jihadist or ignorant racist with 9/11 conspiracy theories. Same with Phillip Giraldi he has about 1000 followers who are total Neo Nazi Jew hatters the rest of the world do not take seriously, yet he marches on like he is just one step away from main stream. He is not.

    https://www.israelhayom.com/opinions/the-real-winners-in-this-election-are-the-israeli-arabs/

    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @Colin Wright
    , @pyrrhus
  48. Sam McGowan says: • Website

    Actually, the reason McNamara and LBJ authorized the recruitment of low IQ troops wasn’t because the military was having trouble getting recruits, it was a political move by Johnson who thought military service would give these men a leg up in society. As it turned out, many were barely functional. We had a Project 100,000 man who swept the floors in our operations room, that was all he was capable of doing. By the way, Seymour Hersh pointed out that the men responsible for the My Lai massacre were Project 100,000.

  49. @anon

    The Vietnam war was never winnable.
    Similar situation to Afghanistan and Iraq.
    The US troops were an occupying force supporting repressive regimes backed by foreign corporations.
    There is no strategy to win in that situation.
    Agent Orange and the strategic hamlet relocation program created more support for the NVA among the agrarian peasants. Deprived of their farms and ancestral homes, dumped in urban environments without jobs.
    Losing hearts and minds.

    Ramadan is fasting from sunrise to sunset then pig out.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  50. AaronB says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Yes, the quality of the people who hate Israel, as seen on this site, is very low. That’s certainly true also in the outside world as well.

    There has been a very dramatic shift.

    As recently as 20 years ago, perfectly reasonable people might sometimes be against Israel. Today, it’s only rabid anti-Semites, the emotionally unstable, and the just plain crazy. Also very unsavoury nasty types, as you see an abundance of on Unz.

    There has been a very dramatic downturn in the quality of people against Israel.

    What happened is, even principled Left wing people realized that whatever they thought about how Israel was created, it can no longer be undone. That window has passed. Destroying Israel now would be a greater moral crime than what they imagine was involved in its creation.

    Secondly, the Oslo accords and the truly vicious violence unleashed by the Palestinians, shocked the world, not just Israel.

    And that the sticking point for the Palestinians was the “right of return” of the millions of Arabs of Palestinian origin who are now living in other Arab countries, in other words the destruction of Israel, finally convinced everyone that the Arabs are incapable of reasonable, moral compromise.

    Thirdly, Israeli and Jewish success in general, going from strength to strength, and the generally positive and appealing nature of Israeli society and its character as a modern, developed, democratic country, won for it sympathy and made it seem less of a weak target for predatory, bullying types.

    Whatever the case, the situation is, thank God, good these days – Israel is here to stay. The good guys won, for now. Although of course, the battle never ends, and one must not grow complacent.

    We should spare a thought for the bitter, resentful types who hate Israel and Jews, and not hate them back, but have sympathy for them.

    Perhaps Israel and Jews can be the nucleus of a moral reform in the Arab and Muslim world – how amazing would that be.

    • Troll: Chris Mallory, Gordo
    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  51. @AaronB

    ‘…Islam is, unfortunately, in a very unhealthy place right now. The kind of violence that one sees there, against themselves and others, is inconceivable among other faiths at the moment…’

    You really don’t realize how absurd that statement is? The most prominent expression of Judaism today is Israel — and Israel is a project implying and requiring continuous violence.

    Otherwise, Judaism has decayed to the point where it’s little more than either a collection box for Israel or a lot of willfully ignorant fanatics dwelling in the equivalent of the Dark Ages. For a Jew to criticize the condition of other faiths is absurd.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @Fran Taubman
  52. @AaronB

    ‘I think any normal person understands Islam is in a significantly worse moral and spiritual state than Judaism today, even the anti-Semites on this site…’

    Fran Taubman quacking like a duck and then you echoing her is not an argument.

  53. @DrWatson

    ‘Is that very high for you?’

    It’s tempting to suggest it would be — but even Fran can’t be that stupid.

  54. @Fran Taubman

    ‘…People outside just do not get what is really going on over there, and how the Jews have given up on any peace plan. It is all or nothing for both sides, and the Jews are taking advantage of their situation right now avoiding any further erosion of land like they naively did for Gaza. They also do not care what the world thinks…’

    This is all good. When the situation was bleak was back in the day of Abba Eban and all the eternally ‘reasonable’ Israelis endlessly professing their desire for peace and giving the Arabs a good swift kick in the nuts whenever they thought no one was looking.

    Give up on peace. Let the logic of history take its course. Let me encourage you. One way or another, the US won’t be there for you twenty years from now; either we won’t be willing to save you, or we won’t be able to.

    But hey: why am I saying ‘you’? You’re not such a fool as to move there, are you, Fran?

  55. Angharad says:
    @DrWatson

    Jews have a HUGE percentage of Negro DNA. 2-3 %, which is an enormous percentage. Israel is a very low IQ country. The Separds must rely on the Askenazi (White) Jews, to bring home the shekels.

    Taubman is probably an Israeli.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  56. anon[117] • Disclaimer says:
    @A123

    “The starvation ritual of Ramadan produces children with neonatal damage. Lower IQ”

    We have seen the effects of the starvation . Some of the 20th century’s renown deformed and ugly looking monsters were deprived of food and water in Dachu during their childhood .

    Some of the offspring of those who survived the deprivations imposed by Germany carried that abominable traits in their emotion and social behaviors instead of in an already poorer IQ. The last part proved to be a surviving skill . Further lowering of IQ of these haredim would have produced multitude of golden calves. triggering fights among the tribes .

  57. pyrrhus says:
    @niteranger

    Yes, the real question is how many American troops died because these morons were on the battlefield….lots, I would wager…

  58. AaronB says:
    @Colin Wright

    Interesting.

    I thought you merely disliked Zionism and supported Palestinian nationalism, but it appears you are also critical of Judaism. Nothing wrong with that, of course.

    You have also expressed admiration for Turkish strongman Erdogan.

    I wonder Colin, what is your attitude towards Islam? I am curious.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  59. pyrrhus says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Israel is a lawless apartheid ethnostate whose morality, loudly proclaimed, is that other ethnicities are of no consequence and can act only as servants….A million quotes from prominent Jews would back up these statements….

  60. @AaronB

    ‘There has been a very dramatic shift.

    As recently as 20 years ago, perfectly reasonable people might sometimes be against Israel. Today, it’s only rabid anti-Semites, the emotionally unstable, and the just plain crazy. Also very unsavoury nasty types, as you see an abundance of on Unz.

    There has been a very dramatic downturn in the quality of people against Israel…’

    There has indeed been a very dramatic shift — but not in the direction you claim.

    Not twenty years ago, but forty five, I was all for Israel. She was ‘one of us.’ I read Leon Uris, sympathized when poor Israel was attacked by nasty Arab terrorists, and cheered her on in 1967 and 1973.

    To be brief, the rest is history. I think some questions started entering my mind in 1982 — and Israel’s successive atrocities beginning with the al-Aqsa intifada finished the process. But back in the day, Israel was just mighty fine — even a bit of an exemplar.

    And many of us have followed this path. If one reads literature from the seventies and eighties, Israel’s legitimacy is unquestioned. Of course, there are quacks and crazies, but supporting Israel is a bit like agreeing the moon landings happened — just part of that common set of attitudes normal people share.

    …and of course, the concomitant was that anyone who disagreed could speak their mind — just as anyone who thinks the moon landings didn’t occur can spout off. There’s no need to silence him. Say what you wish.

    No more, eh? Now, open dissent must be suppressed. Won’t agree to buy Israel? No job for you. You don’t think we should fight wars on her behalf? I think your opponent in the next election going to be getting a whole lot of funding.

    Etc. Can’t allow unfettered debate about this in mainstream any more, can we?

    So yeah, you could say that ‘perfectly reasonable’ people won’t criticize Israel any more. They don’t need the grief. But it’s not that they support Israel. Privately, every year fewer and fewer do. Who could?

    But you know that. I don’t know whether you’re lying just to us, or to yourself as well. Only you can answer that question.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @Anonymous
  61. Anon[429] • Disclaimer says:
    @A123

    If only Judaism didn’t seed the creation of Islam, to assist the caliphate overrun Judaism’s Spanish enemy a short time after.

    The world’s casualties directly due to this this Judaic fruit have been incalculable.

  62. @Angharad

    ‘Taubman is probably an Israeli.’

    She’s not such a fool. She’s staying right here in the USA. Few Jews with an authentic choice have ever moved to Israel. Israel is a hobby, not a commitment.

    …that’s one of the things that infuriates me about this. All of this cruelty, misery, deceit, degradation, and expense is happening for something that’s about as vital to the existence of most of its supporters as a proper Thanksgiving Dinner.

    The Jews of the world could get along just fine without Israel. Those who actually can, do get along without it. It’s a luxury, a pleasant little way of bolstering their self-esteem. Like supporting a football team.

  63. AaronB says:
    @Colin Wright

    I would suggest a different psychohistory.

    You are clearly a fierce, aggressive person, ambitious, with an ego, oriented towards the world and the flesh. You aren’t exactly someone who has conquered his egotistical side through some form of spirituality.

    At some point your life took a turn for the worse. Your ambitions were thwarted, your ego hurt.

    Suddenly, to your surprise, you discovered an antipathy to Jews and Israel.

    Sound familiar?

  64. @England patriot

    I’m not anti-Pom – some of my best friends are Poms, and I have extremely high standards.

    I am adamantly opposed to their State machinery – which has nothing to do with the average Pom, except that it steals half his income (and still racks up debt in his name).

    That’s my considered view of all state machinery – whether it’s Pom, Yank, Chink, Frog, Wog, Dot-head, Nip, Kiwi, Aussie, Canuck, Wetback, Heeb, Towel-head or brindle. The fact that some of the victims of states actually identify with their overlords, is beyond sad – as sad as a rape victim staying with the rapist for the sake of the resultant baby. Both things happen, though – because most people are cognitively juvenile until their last breath.

    What I’m “anti”, is the retarded idea that ownership of resources obtained by conquest ever attains moral legitimacy: if there is a section of the indigenous population left to assert their rights, then the resources obtained by conquest do not have good title. The only way to get a clean slate is complete genocide (and it’s hard to do that and continue to claim any moral character).

    The principle of ‘no valid title for thieves‘ is true if it’s property stolen from an individual by some other individual – the valid ownership of stolen property remains with the victim, and can be passed down to their descendants. That has been true for millennia, across a range of cultures – it’s also the Bayes-Nash equilibrium. And since it is true individually, it is true (a fortiori) when applied to a group of people (not the Bayes-Nash bit: that depends on things that do not have good aggregate properties).

    Not for nuthin’ but a fictionalised version of the ‘valid title remains with the expropriated‘ principle is, very very explicitly, the direct cause of the infestation of millions of Eastern Europeans in Palestine. (Not only was there no expulsion/Diaspora – most of them have fuck-all genetic link to the ancient Heebs).

    .
    .

    Ireland lived peaceably for a thousand years – and resisted English invasion for 800 of those – without what we would recognise as a State.

    They had technological parity; private law and rights-enforcement (the túath system)… then some cunts decided that they were special and had the right to steal everyone’s shit.

    If the Cotswolds was occupied by Chinks, and the Chink army routinely executed Englishmen who took exception to that fact, you would not care if they arrived last week or in the 17th century; you would want them to sling their fucking hook.

    And you would view anyone who collaborated with the Chink army, and any resident Chinks and their anchor-babies, as good candidates for a “red card”.

    When victors say “Get over it”, they’re being disingenuous because they would not do so given the reverse situation. Victims are not obliged to do so, and have the right to redress (including vengeance) until they win, or until they are dead to the last man.

    (In the same vein… the Chinks have never forgiven the Yanks and Poms for the Opium Wars: anyone who fails to understand that a significant motivation for Chinese expansion is to give the Poms and Yanks a good kick in the balls, is missing a trick).
    .
    .
    inb4 everyone lives on stolen ground” as if that’s remotely meaningful; how long exactly has to pass before just title can be claimed? 100 years? Why 100? 200? Why 200? If the stolen property belonged to your great-grandfather, with incontrovertible proof… would that number change?

    To re-frame it: ask yourself what period of time would have to elapse after your daughter was raped, before the rapist magically accrues the right to say “Oh, she’s mine now and I’ll treat her as I see fit – fuck off.” (If you don’t have a daughter, just think of some other thing that is dear to you)

    The correct answer is “Never“: your moral right to obtain redress (or exact vengeance) is perpetual. And so it is with real property.

    And yes, that’s really fucking messy. The fact that fixing moral wrongs is messy does not legitimise the moral wrong. Rothbard noted that it does not matter if getting rid of States causes per-capita consumption to fall – it is the right thing to do.

    Likewise, people in the 1800s in the US thought that emancipating slaves would lead to bands of disgruntled negroes roaming the land exacting cruel vengeance (Jefferson thought this)… but even if true, it doesn’t ennoble slavery.

    Some of my forebears tended to kill everyone whose land they stole (and eat them). When they invaded Ao Tea Roa (circa 1400) they didn’t pretend that they were doing it for the benefit of the then-indigenes – “bringing them the benefits of modern Polynesian society” or some other shit – they just wiped them out and moved in.

    As an aside: this is why I get the shits at the fictional narrative in Deuteronomy and Joshua… a tribe who were local goatherds and did fuck-all by conquest, end up in control at some stage and promptly invent a false narrative whereby they wiped out the inhabitants of the land. Ditto Exodus: my forebears actually travelled en masse, 8,000 km over open ocean, and actually founded their new tribal home by conquest and genocide – they can claim terra nullius because they made it that way.
    .
    .
    The thing is, most conquest is designed so that the costs are borne by the demos in the invader country, and the benefits accrue to a tiny sliver of the population (as they did in Ireland: the stuff stolen enriched a handful of barons). That requires that the proles be given a set of (to them) plausible reasons why the invading government was “obliged” to do what it did – otherwise the proles eventually get tired of paying the bill and sending their children to die.

    • Agree: byrresheim
  65. @Colin Wright

    Like I always say Colin you do not know what at the fuck you are talking about. You have never been to Israel, which is not a violent place at all. You are just a blow hard of propaganda, you can tell you can the responses. You have never ben to middle east.
    Save up your shekels you will be shocked. Here read this about Melanie Philips talking about the Arabs.
    https://www.israelhayom.com/opinions/the-real-winners-in-this-election-are-the-israeli-arabs/

    • Replies: @nymom
  66. Corvinus says:
    @mark green

    “Any civilization that sends their Best and Brightest to the front lines is taking huge risks.”

    Huge risks that have a large payoff at the end.

    “Cannon fodder troops generally come (and should come) from the lower tiers of society.”

    Troops should come from any tier of society.

    “On the other hand, Israel’s high fertility rates among Orthodox and Sephardic Jews has dysgenics written all over it. This explains why Israel’s average IQ average remains below 100.

    No, it just shows that people are having children.

    “Highly religious and less-intelligent Jews are producing a disproportionate number of the births inside Israel.”

    Are you Jewish? If not, how does this matter particularly impact YOU?

  67. Corvinus says:
    @Blankaerd

    “It’s a lesson the US could’ve learned back in World War II. The US deployed black troops in France, and instead of proving that the blacks were just as capable fighters as the whites, the blacks engaged in typical black behavior of rape and thievery.”

    Actually, more white troops unfortunately engaged in that behavior.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  68. Corvinus says:
    @AaronB

    “I think any normal person understands Islam is in a significantly worse moral and spiritual state than Judaism today…”

    Any normal person understands that some people who are highly protective of their faith will automatically label other faiths as being “significantly worse off” in whatever category they come up with.

    In the end, it’s an opinion.

    • Agree: Colin Wright
    • Replies: @AaronB
  69. @AaronB

    ‘I would suggest a different psychohistory…’

    It’s kind of comic the way you will cook up literally anything rather than admit some flaw or shortcoming in contemporary Judaism and Jewry.

    I mean, look at your post. The evasion is spectacular.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  70. AaronB says:
    @Corvinus

    Well, I’m not saying Islam is worse than Judaism as a religion – I appreciate Islam and all other faiths.

    I am merely saying that today, Muslims are acting significantly worse than Jews, both towards fellow Muslims and towards others. Killing, violence, massacring, throwing gays off buildings, beheading people, burning people, constant wars, suppressing women, etc, etc.

    Moreover, these are religious Muslims, not Hellenized apostates.

    I am sorry, but there is simply no comparable phenomena among Jews. This is an objective fact.

    Of course I am aware that none of this is an accurate expression of Islam, and that Islam is capable of a very high spirituality – but at the same time, one cannot say it has no relationship to the religion either.

    In the future, one hopes Islam will recover its fine spiritual side – if it survives as a religious and spiritual force.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @Corvinus
  71. @Corvinus

    ‘Actually, more white troops unfortunately engaged in that behavior.’

    Not proportionately, Corvinus. I don’t think so.

    You need to realize that what you would like the truth to be and what it is are often two different things.

    Seriously. Even me…

    Deep inside every Colin is a politically correct liberal trying to get out. Whenever I encounter some evidence that appears to momentarily indicate that blacks really are morally, intellectually, genetically equal to other races, I cannot help noticing that my inner Colin rejoices.

    If only it were so. Unfortunately, it’s not, and you have to accept that. Rabid reactionaries have to accept that man-caused global warming is a reality, Nazi-philes have to accept that the Holocaust happened — and you have to accept that Negroes are inferior.

    Truth can be kind of like the rock you hit your teeth against when you fall down. It may be unpleasant, but it is very, very real. There’s no getting around it.

  72. @England patriot

    which is why blacks are considered by many whites to be the toughest race and probably why they are favoured by the military.
    A big weakness of the US and UK militaries is the assumption that street thugs make the most effective and capable troops

    How much more wrong could you be?
    Blacks are rare in elite units and under represented in combat arms. They are over represented in supply and support units.

    • Agree: Alfred
  73. @AaronB

    ‘…I wonder Colin, what is your attitude towards Islam? I am curious.’

    It’s too bad your dishonesty is so apparent that it is impossible to take your supposed interest at face value.

    Actually, if we are to proceed on the farcical premise that you really are ‘curious’ rather than merely lying, read back through my last thousand posts or so. I’ve stated my attitude towards Islam — I believe on several occasions.

  74. @Vinnie O

    I think the ONLY US soldier EXECUTED by court martial in WW2 was one of the converted stevedores who “raped” a White nurse

    The military executed 102 Americans during WW2 up until 1948. All for rape or murder with one exception.

  75. @AaronB

    ‘I am merely saying that today, Muslims are acting significantly worse than Jews, both towards fellow Muslims and towards others…’

    But that’s simply not true, is it, Aaron?

    There are what? Thirty Muslim nations in the world today? I dunno — and I’m not going to count.

    Some of them are more or less reasonable: Malaysia, Turkey, Tunisia, Bosnia, Albania-I-suppose.

    Others mind their own business, even if they aren’t entirely edifying to observe: Algeria, Bangladesh, Iran, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon (yes, that would be Muslim), Jordan, Kuwait…

    Others are distinctly distasteful in some way: Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Morocco, Pakistan… A couple are wreckage: Yemen, Afghanistan.

    But none of them are as egregiously vicious, criminal, parasitic as that one Jewish state, Israel.

    So you did bring it up, and your claim is nonsense. It’s like Jeffrey Epstein accusing Sean Connery of exploiting women. Well, okay, ol’ Sean isn’t really Ms. Magazine’s ‘Man of the Year’ — but is Jeffrey in a position to point it out?

    Is a self-appointed advocate for Israel and contemporary Judaism in a position to criticize Islam?

    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @Corvinus
  76. Piglet says:
    @Vinnie O

    The 9th Cavalry Regiment (Colored) was part of the 2d Cavalry Division (Colored) that was activated at Fort Clark, TX, on 25 February 1943. The division staged at Camp Patrick Henry, VA, on 4 February 1944 and departed the Hampton Roads Port of Embarkation on 26 February 1944, arriving in North Africa on 9 March 1944. It was inactivated there on 10 May 1944 and its assets were used to create service and engineer units.

    You may have confused the 9th Cav with the 93d Infantry Division (Colored) which was sent to the Pacific and, according to Shelby Stanton’s Order of Battle: US Army World War II, “its elements were parceled out to various islands throughout the Pacific for the duration of the war.” These activities included “engaging in labor details at docks and warehouses.”

    Its sister unit, the 92d Infantry Division (Colored), was sent to Italy in the ETO where it did not enjoy much success. Eventually two of its three infantry regiments were taken off the line and replaced in the division by the 473d, an all-white unit formed from inactivating antiaircraft battalions, and the famous 442d Infantry Regiment (Nisei). In future actions the 473d and 442d did well while the remaining black regiment, the 370th, did not.

    I remember my late father, a WW II veteran himself, telling me many years ago about the 92d. It was not doing well so the Roosevelt administration sent a (black) representative to Italy to get to the bottom of what was going on. He went over believing the problem was racism (isn’t it always?) but what he discovered was quite different. For example, if one soldier was hit, half a dozen or more of the others would drop their rifles and carry the wounded man to the rear. If the Germans nudged them with even a probe, they would collapse and retreat, and the unit’s officers had to search in the forests and bushes to locate them and round them up. The rep’s conclusion was simply that the unit wasn’t worth a damn.

    Naturally, he was widely condemned by other blacks as a race traitor.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  77. AaronB says:
    @Colin Wright

    I’m actually pretty critical of contemporary Judaism and Jewry.

    Like all religions in modern times, it has not escaped the corrosive effect of our times.

    I am merely observing that contemporary Judaism has not given birth to things like ISIS, slaughtering Sufis in mosques by other Muslims, etc.

    So it is quite simply an objective fact that Judaism is in a spiritually healthier state.

    But this does not mean it is healthy – let alone perfect.

  78. @AaronB

    Whatever his personal history and psychology, it doesn’t affect the validity and reasonableness of his arguments and observations about Israel. Which you haven’t tried to address, just insulting and doing some armchair psychoanalysis instead. Keep doing it, because you just help to increase enmity against Jews and Israel alike (two different things, but both well deserved on balance).

    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @Corvinus
  79. AaronB says:
    @Colin Wright

    Is a self-appointed advocate for Israel and contemporary Judaism in a position to criticize Islam?

    Obviously, yes. But I wouldn’t exactly call myself that.

    I’m someone who is appalled at the insane attempt to make Jews the source of all evil.

    I used to defend whites in this site, because the vilification of whites struck me as over the top and wrong in our society.

    And I have defended blacks – your own people – on this site for the same reason.

    I have also defended Islam and Muslims – for the same reason.

    Of course, yes, with Jews and Judaism its more personal, but if this wasn’t such an insane anti-Semitic site, I’d probably be quiet.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  80. nymom says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Here we go again, another outpost of Western Civilization caving…

    This will probably end badly, similar to what is going on in South Africa today.

    Why oh why does the west keep falling for this crap…You don’t give people who want to destroy you a vote to undermine your government. Let them do it the old fashion way, if they can, but you don’t hand them your people on a platter.

  81. Seems like Gilad is not immune to brain drain as well.

    Brain Drain In Israel Now Seen Deepening
    https://jewishweek.timesofisrael.com/brain-drain-in-israel-now-seen-deepening/

  82. AaronB says:
    @RadicalCenter

    I think you’re smart enough to know that arguments are not decided on facts for most people – people decide on a cause for emotional reasons, then select the facts which they like.

    In the case of Colin Wright, his attitude to Israel and Jews is so unbalanced and extreme, that it is quite futile to discuss facts. He does not come across as calm, interested in facts, and open to reason.

    Therefore I am more interested in understanding, psychologically, what motivates him and people like him.

    By analysing large numbers of such people, one can get a decent idea of the psychological terrain.

  83. Corvinus says:
    @AaronB

    “Muslims are acting significantly worse than Jews, both towards fellow Muslims and towards others.”

    “In the future, one hopes Islam will recover its fine spiritual side”

    “I am sorry, but there is simply no comparable phenomena among Jews. This is an objective fact.”

    Again, you are falling into the trap of justifying how one group is markedly better, or worse, than another group from your cultural and religious lens. Note how Colin Wright is also succumbing to that pitfall. We all have our handicaps when it comes to dealing with confirmation bias.

    In the end, it is your opinion.

  84. Corvinus says:
    @Colin Wright

    “But none of them are as egregiously vicious, criminal, parasitic as that one Jewish state, Israel.”

    You do realize that you acting in just the way that you are criticizing Aaron, right? In other words, it is the pot calling the kettle black. It’s hypocrisy on your part.

    It’s too bad your dishonesty is so apparent that it is impossible to take your supposed interest at face value.

    “and you have to accept that Negroes are inferior.”

    That would be Fake News on your part.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  85. Corvinus says:
    @RadicalCenter

    “Keep doing it, because you just help to increase enmity against Jews and Israel alike.”

    According to Who/Whom?

  86. @AaronB

    ‘Obviously, yes. But I wouldn’t exactly call myself that.

    I’m someone who is appalled at the insane attempt to make Jews the source of all evil…

    Then you’re talking to the wrong person. I merely object to Israel.

  87. @Corvinus

    ‘You do realize that you acting in just the way that you are criticizing Aaron, right? In other words, it is the pot calling the kettle black. It’s hypocrisy on your part.

    It’s too bad your dishonesty is so apparent that it is impossible to take your supposed interest at face value…

    This makes no sense to me. Perhaps you should explain yourself better.

  88. @AaronB

    ‘In the case of Colin Wright, his attitude to Israel and Jews is so unbalanced and extreme, that it is quite futile to discuss facts. He does not come across as calm, interested in facts, and open to reason.’

    That is to say, you find yourself unable to come up with a more satisfactory response to my arguments. You have to settle for continuing to equate criticism of Israel with criticism of Jewry, and labelling my arguments ‘unbalanced and extreme.’

    If you insist on identifying all Jews with Israel, I can’t stop you — but it’s you doing it, not me. As to being ‘unbalanced and extreme,’ I’d be ‘unbalanced and extreme’ about any heinous outrage my country was engaged in supporting. What other attitude should I have?

    Don’t feel bad. You’re trying to defend the indefensible. Of course you’re not going to do very well.

  89. Anonymous[247] • Disclaimer says:
    @SaneClownPosse

    Sometimes Muslims actually gain weight during Ramadan as they often feast just after dark and again just before sunrise.
    The risky aspect is not abstention from food – it is not drinking fluids, espcially if Ramadan falls in the summer, when it can be very hot in most Muslim-majority countries and the days are long.

  90. Alfred says:
    @A123

    Clearly, you are unaware that the consumption of food, especially expensive more nutritious foods, increases during the Ramadan. As soon as the boom of the gun goes off to tell them that the fast is over, they guzzles the foods that have been prepared and laid out beautifully on their tables.

    If you were really concerned about the health of Muslim children, you would have perhaps written something about the West-organised famines in Yemen. I believe that even the Australian navy is stopping ships from bringing food into that unfortunate and desperately poor country.

    Yemen: up to 85,000 young children dead from starvation

    Of course we should have remember what Madeleine Albright had to say about what the USA and its allies organized in Iraq:

    Madeleine Albright – The deaths of 500,000 Iraqi children was worth it

    Today’s governments of both the USA and Israel would love to be able to repeat that in Iran. Fortunately, those ruling Iran have a much higher IQ than those in charge in both the USA and Israel. They are able to smuggle oil, food and medicines almost at will.

    • Replies: @Cato
  91. Alfred says:
    @Flo

    The Norwegian navy’s proudest ship was sunk while crewed by 4 female and one male navigators. However, this website frequently mentioned that people who inhabit Scandinavia are of a higher intelligence. I guess they also trawl the bottom of the barrel for their troops.

    This Indian magazine does not hide this fact:

    Norwegian warship accident raises questions on women in armed forces

    To my surprise, I found this article in AftenPosten.no

    Voldsomt raseri over nødvendig debatt om flere kvinner i Forsvaret | Helge Lurås (Violent rage over necessary debate on more women in the Armed Forces)

    I always thought that raising any such doubt was almost a criminal offense in Norway.

  92. Anonymous[247] • Disclaimer says:
    @Colin Wright

    1982 was also a game-changer for me re Israel. Sabra and Chatila was just like certain massacres in Poland or further east in the early 1940s – for the Israelis, read the Germans setting up a cordon so none escape. For the Falange, read the Ukrainian Trawniki or other local collaborators tasked with the actual dirty work. My recollection is some Israelis were embarrassed at the time but since then they have become more brazen.
    Compared to before 1982 I suspect there is less genuine support for Israel and more “I’d better hide what I actually think about this garbage, or else AIPAC will destroy my political career.”

    • Agree: Colin Wright
  93. Anonymous[247] • Disclaimer says:
    @Piglet

    Its white commander, Almond, didn’t think much of it either – white officers often resented commanding African-Americans. Then again, Almond failed to distinguish himself in the Korean War.

  94. Anonymous[247] • Disclaimer says:
    @Vinnie O

    It’s a novel although its author served in WW2 but A Midnight Clear has its narrator mentioning low-IQ troops being sent to the South Pacific. He doesn’t mention race. One theme of the novel is rather stupid officers and NCOs leading “smart-ass” privates.

  95. Anonymous[247] • Disclaimer says:
    @HJay

    Chief Wiggum? Officer Barbrady?

    • LOL: Bubba
  96. Anonymous[247] • Disclaimer says:
    @England patriot

    I don’t know that they actually make that assumption, although people of that type do often find a berth in the military.
    I once read a British-published book that stated that neo-Nazis were at least condoned by commanders of US troops in Iraq and Afghanistan. They were considered more committed than most troops and more dedicated to the mission. (I bet they were.)
    Dirlewanger’s SS unit was made up of violent criminals to a large extent. It was worthless as a combat unit but a major generator of atrocities against civilians.
    Armed forces, especially armies, seem to need to find a place to put the mauvais sujets, especially in wars like WW2. None of the answers were ideal – some put them in punishment battalions. Soldiers deemed security risks for having Nazi sympathies were put in charge of German POWs in the USA in WW2 – at least one assisted some of them in an escape attempt. Not particularly surprising. Some British guards of POWs or civilian detainees had obviously been removed from their parent units for some reason – detaching them to guard prisoners was one way to get rid of them. They often stole from the prisoners they were guarding.

    • Replies: @George
  97. Truth3 says:

    Nominee for Best Renaming of a Monument…

    The Soviet War Memorial in Berlin (Tiergarten)… German Women called it… “The Tomb of the Unknown Rapist”

  98. @AaronB

    I can largely agree with your first paragraph. Even those of us who strive to avoid that phenomenon sometimes fall prey to it.

    But turning now to the armchair psychoanalysis of your adversary Colin: does the “religion” of Judaism claim that God chose one racial group for his favor, to vanquish and be served by others because they are chosen?

    Do “such people” have a healthy psychological profile?

    “Thank God that you weren’t born a Gentile, a woman, or a slave”, eh, you fair and rational guy? I’m glad that Jews aren’t psychologically disturbed like you say Colin is. What a relief.

    https://www.bc.edu/content/dam/files/research_sites/cjl/texts/cjrelations/resources/sourcebook/shelo_asani_goy.htm

  99. @Fran Taubman

    And there’s also your own IQ Fran, contradicting the notion of high Jewish IQs.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  100. George says:
    @Anonymous

    “it was proclaimed that the formation was not part of the SS, but under control of the SS.[6] As the war proceeded with a need for further manpower Germany recruited other Strafbataillons and penal military units.”
    ” Dirlewanger to train a partisan-hunting military unit under his own control, composed of men convicted of poaching.”
    “Hitler had made a decision to give “suspended sentences to so-called ‘honorable poachers’ and, depending on their behaviour at the front, to pardon them”. ”
    “By September 1940, the formation numbered over 300 men. Dirlewanger was appointed an SS-Obersturmführer by Himmler. With the influx of criminals, the emphasis on poachers was now lost, though many of the former poachers rose to NCO ranks to train the unit.”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirlewanger_Brigade#Composition
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_military_unit

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  101. buzzwar says:
    @A123

    A123 stop haunting this website!

    • Agree: Alfred
  102. Anonymous[247] • Disclaimer says:
    @George

    According to the writer Richard Plant, some homosexuals imprisoned in concentration camps were sent to Dirlewanger’s unit. They were not acceptable to him although just about everyone else was, and he ordered them tied to trees with pink triangles pinned to their uniforms and left to freeze to death – this was the winter of 1944-5. Some were rescued by a Red Army patrol, including the source of Plant’s information.

  103. @Vinnie O

    Yup, that one is “below IQ” for her group.

    Maybe it’s Teeny Dick doing his satire in drag.

  104. @NoseytheDuke

    Maybe but my IQ is still higher then yours Nosey, you are one tic above retard as per your comments.

  105. https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn16297-intelligent-soldiers-most-likely-to-die-in-battle/

    There’s a lot of generic commentary in this video. There is not a single bit of evidence that low IQ resulted in the deaths referenced. The battlefield is rife with mistakes caused by fear, confusion and ,miscommunication. What is not included in this telling are those with high and above average IQ’s who could not operate in combat zones because they just didn’t get it and as such were protected by given assignments that kept them out of harms way or the risk of harming their fellows.

    Certainly the ability to grasp what is taking place and participating as an active cooperative member is important, however, I don’t think there’s much evidence that merely having a low IQ (whatever that means in the real) made matters worse in Vietnam. It would be interesting to know how many of these so called actually served in Vietnam or with combat units.

    And the rebuttal is provided by the speakers own chapter success stories —

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  106. peterAUS says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    Pretty much.

    What most people commenting here don’t get is the importance of gut feeling, instinct, “street-smart”, cunning, whatever you call it.
    A low-level IQ peasant, living all his life in the hinterland, will “get” the rural battlefield better than high-level IQ guy from a city. Etc. Any guy from a ghetto will get it better in urban. Hehe…familiar in may aspects.

    I mean…haha…how many high-level IQ guys in the urban environment get mugged/harmed/killed because they simply lack the basic survival instinct?
    True, they can learn stuff faster (weapons, equipment, tactics…), but…instinct….that’s another matter.

    Anyway.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  107. anon[407] • Disclaimer says:

    The blokes he talks about sound more like imbeciles than morons.
    The issue that’s not addressed is: Was there a lower I.Q. limit, or was it waived completely?

  108. anon[407] • Disclaimer says:

    Wars aren’t fought like that anymore, if they ever were.
    The Dirty Dozen was a fantasy.

  109. @peterAUS

    ‘…What most people commenting here don’t get is the importance of gut feeling, instinct, “street-smart”, cunning, whatever you call it.
    A low-level IQ peasant, living all his life in the hinterland, will “get” the rural battlefield better than high-level IQ guy from a city. Etc. Any guy from a ghetto will get it better in urban. Hehe…familiar in may aspects…

    I don’t think the evidence bears this out. The following isn’t conclusive, but it is indicative.

    In World War Two, both the British and the Americans disproportionately assigned those with some smarts to some technical specialty: Engineering, aircrew or aircraft maintenance, artillery, whatever. Infantry was left to the dregs.

    The Germans, by contrast, always put their best foot forward, so to speak. The infantry were sharp guys.

    Analysis has shown that man-for-man, the Germans outfought the British and Americans by a factor of between 1.25 and 1.5. All things being equal, a German platoon of thirty men would prove a match for about forty Americans or Britons.

    At the other extreme, there’s the performance of the quintessential low-IQ population: blacks. Subsaharan blacks were always a cut below. That was true whether they were in American, French, or British service. When the Gurkhas fought alongside the Gold Coast regiments in Burma, they were awed by the Blacks’ genitalia; contemptuous of them as soldiers.

    Now of course numerous other elements would factor into all of the above. Nevertheless, the available evidence is that higher-IQ troops perform better, not worse, in combat situations. You need something more than just a fight/flight reaction.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @Anonymous
  110. peterAUS says:
    @Colin Wright

    ……numerous other elements would factor into all of the above.

    Yes. Numerous and “other”.

    You need something more than just a fight/flight reaction.

    Yes. As, what is called, an instinct. “Feel” for the environment. From people around you to terrain…weather….everything.
    Hehe..can you, for example, smell fear in a person. Smell….not see. Smell….in dark. A man next to you. In rain and dark. Can you? Really?
    Can you feel that something is amiss on that hill 800 metres away? What is IQ test that can measure that? No, training isn’t good enough for that. Takes decades to get it. Or never.

    Besides, what exactly is that IQ, as measured by….who?

    How would an Apache warrior measure there? Or Afghan tribesman? Or the Caucasus mountain man?
    How would a guy from urban ghetto measure there? A guy from favelas?

    Tell you what. If I were asked to organize a bunch of civilians into some (para)military unit here it is:
    100 men, for example. 10 with that high IQ, 60 with average IQ and 3o with low IQ.
    30 having “school smarts”; 70 having “street/rural smarts”.
    I trade 10 PhDs for 10 peasants with the “feel” for the land. Or street “deplorables” with the “feel” for the streets there.

    Just me.

    • Replies: @anon
    , @Anonymous
  111. @KI

    The issue is when women who don’t know they are pregnant take part in the fast.

  112. anon[187] • Disclaimer says:
    @peterAUS

    You’re gaslighting soldiers, suggesting any moron could be a soldier.
    You’re also suggesting that people from rural backgrounds are likely to have lower I.Q..
    That’s unlikely to be the case.

  113. Anonymous[404] • Disclaimer says:
    @Colin Wright

    There was nothing élite about German infantry. As the war went on it contained more and more Poles and Czechs somewhat arbitrarily redefined as ethnic Germans so they could be conscripted. There were also a lot of Ostmenschen. Bottom line – they were running out of cannon fodder and given the Third Reich’s racial-ethnic preoccupations, it was really their closest equivalent to MacNamara’s “morons”. On the Internet I have seen examples of small picture books not unlike the late Jack Chick’s booklets aimed at passing on basic German to “Germans” who originated from Lodz or even Kharkov, or basic military info to illiterates or semi-literates.
    The good performances by German infantry on closer examination were more likely to be by specialists in some élite units such as certain Panzergrenadier formations.

  114. Anonymous[404] • Disclaimer says:
    @peterAUS

    An American POW in Korea said his life was saved by other POWs who were Latinos or Puerto Ricans. He described them as “peasant characters” but they knew how to stay alive in primitive conditions. For example they found plants on hillsides, boiled them down to make a kind of herbal tea and it combated the vitamin deficiencies many prisoners suffered from.
    Half of Unz network would be jeering at their low IQs but in some situations it’s the high-IQ sophisticated urbanites who are at a loss.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @anon
  115. @Fran Taubman

    “Nothing is universal, and it is more about opportunity and education then genetics”

    I guess that brainwashing does work as can be seen in that statement. I too used to believe that ” All people are created equal ” but that was at an early age after I left college. I soon came to a different conclusion that not only are we unequal in brain power but that breeding groups are unequal. It is mathematically and biologically impossible for groups of people to measure equal in various measures. A lot of people also seem to believe that we are born unequal below the neck but hey we’re all equal when it comes to brain power. That’s the power of brainwashing in the USA.

  116. peterAUS says:
    @Anonymous

    ….“peasant characters” but they knew how to stay alive in primitive conditions. For example they found plants on hillsides, boiled them down to make a kind of herbal tea and it combated the vitamin deficiencies many prisoners suffered from.
    Half of Unz network would be jeering at their low IQs but in some situations it’s the high-IQ sophisticated urbanites who are at a loss.

    Yes.

  117. @Anonymous

    Individually Germans were superior soldiers but they quickly ran out of them. They were recruiting Albanians, muslims, and even Indians into the SS and originally these were supposed to be elite German units. Germans just didn’t have enough top quality Germans to fight that war on all fronts. On the eastern front around Stalingrad the Soviets deliberately attacked the Romanian, Hungarian, Croatian and Italian divisons and cut through them like through butter. These either surrendered en masse or ran like hell all the way back to Buchurest, Budapest, even Rome to dump their uniforms and change into their civvies.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  118. 36 ulster says:
    @England patriot

    Not THIS American, EP. I’m still hoping for your liberation from the domestic quislings and the nattering bureaucrats of the EU–even if there doesn’t seem to be an exit STRATEGY. Oh, one more thing”: No Surrender!

  119. @Anonymous

    ‘The good performances by German infantry on closer examination were more likely to be by specialists in some élite units such as certain Panzergrenadier formations.’

    The figures are from Dupuy. I doubt your hypothesis is correct — but you can check.

    Your claims about the increasingly dubious nature of the ‘Germans’ in the German infantry may well be correct — but that merely makes the superior performance of German infantry all the more impressive. Who knows what the ratio would have been if the divisions had been all-German?

    To be fair, there are a number of interesting aspects to superior German combat performance, and the possibly higher IQ of their soldiery may be only be one contributing factor. I merely pointed it out as tending to disprove the claim that it doesn’t matter what the IQ of combat infantry is. The available evidence suggests (does not prove) that high-IQ infantry outperforms low-IQ infantry.

    I believe that’s what I said in the first place.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  120. @Commentator Mike

    ‘ …On the eastern front around Stalingrad the Soviets deliberately attacked the Romanian, Hungarian, Croatian and Italian divisons and cut through them like through butter. These either surrendered en masse or ran like hell all the way back to Buchurest, Budapest, even Rome to dump their uniforms and change into their civvies.’

    You somewhat unfairly lump all these together.

    The one Croatian regiment in frontline service in 1942-43 performed perfectly credibly. The Romanians weren’t quite as good as their Russian opponents, but more or less on a par. They would fight bravely in the defensive, given their appalling equipment; see Manstein’s evaluation of them in Verloren Sieg.

    The Hungarians were distinctly worse — and the Italians, of course, worse still. Here, I recall some German memoir of the post-Stalingrad debacle. The writer’s able to stomach the behavior of the Romanians — it’s understandable — but the egregious cowardice of the Italians infuriates him. Seriously: stealing the transportation of a field hospital and leaving the wounded to the tender mercies of the Russians so you can make your escape?

    As with success, there are different degrees of failure. It remains to be noted that the Germans themselves were not immune to the effects of poor equipment and leadership: see the less-than-dazzling record of the Luftwaffe field divisions.

  121. Cato says:
    @Alfred

    Madeleine Albright – The deaths of 500,000 Iraqi children was worth it

    Please. Her Horrnorableness Albright did not mean that the way it sounded. She, unfortunately, just happens to be a bit innumerate. 500K dead, 5K dead, 5 dead –it all seems the same. So what?

  122. anon[172] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    Recruit low IQ peasants so that they’ll keep you alive after the surrender?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Anonymous
  123. Anonymous[298] • Disclaimer says:
    @anon

    It reminds me of a Monty Python sketch about penguins, and researchers living like penguins to study them, and dying like penguins – only faster because the penguins were clever little buggers in their home environment.

  124. Anonymous[298] • Disclaimer says:
    @anon

    Quite a few US POWs went to pieces in Korean captivity, whether or not IQ had anything to do with this, and the hyper-individualism of many Americans was quite destructive. A corporal named Gallagher was convicted of murder after being repatriated. Some of the other POWs had dysentery while they were being marched to a compound, and Gallagher dragged one or more out of the hut they were staying in and left them to die in the snow. The American who appreciated being kept alive by the “peasant characters” may have noticed that there were others who would leave you to die, if it suited their personal convenience, like Gallagher.

  125. Anonymous[298] • Disclaimer says:
    @Colin Wright

    Infantry units varied in quality, quite widely – the static bodenständig divisions were inferior to the others on the Atlantic Wall, and on D-Day it showed. The 716th and 709th divisions put up relatively little resistance – the 352nd which inflicted high casualties at Omaha and to a lesser extent Gold Beach was not a static division. The 352nd did have its disgruntled Germans in name only but fewer than the others, it would seem.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  126. @Colin Wright

    Colin,

    Agreed. I did exaggerate a bit for effect, but I read somewhere long ago that the Soviets made a point of attacking the non-Germans first where it served their purpose to break through the axis lines. Even so, once the Croats were captured they were quickly issued new uniforms and recruited into the First Yugoslav Brigade to fight alongside the Soviets on their way to Romania and further to liberate Yugoslavia. I suppose they weren’t given much of a choice, it was either die or serve. The Soviets thought they could be useful as after all war needs killers. Well Italians were probably reluctant to head all the way into Russia in the first place and in Italy itself they were eager to switch sides once the Allies landed, not to mention all the Mafiosos and communist partisans who were resisting the Axis behind the lines. The Romanians were probably a little more determined as they knew Romania was next in line to fall to the Soviets if they failed to hold them back. It should have been the same case with the Hungarians but they did seem weaker. Communism was after all a popular ideology at the time and many of those recruits had previously been in Communist Parties in Germany and other countries and once the going got tough many would have become more susceptible to Soviet propaganda broadcasts and leaflets and reverted to their earlier pre-Nazi and pre-fascist beliefs. I also read somewhere that Wehrmacht troops on the Eastern Front had their own underground communist cells and were printing their own propaganda during the fighting but I don’t know if this is true. Perhaps they were just passing Soviet propaganda leaflets air dropped on them.

  127. @Anonymous

    Infantry units varied in quality, quite widely – the static bodenständig divisions were inferior to the others on the Atlantic Wall, and on D-Day it showed. The 716th and 709th divisions put up relatively little resistance…’

    Yeah, but the 709th and the 716th were largely composed of various Eastern groups the Germans weren’t even pretending were Germans: Ukrainians and Georgians and things.

    It can be interesting. The Germans actually mobilized an incredible kaleidoscope of nationalities and groups, with everything from genuine Germans to ‘Germans’ to former political prisoners to people who clearly weren’t German at all down to one poor Korean who had first been drafted by the Japanese, then captured by the Russians, then captured by the Germans, and finally captured by the Americans. In Normandy, no one could figure out what he was — or what he was doing there. He was probably a little unsure of that himself.

    Needless to say, these units performed unevenly — although some did quite well. Nobody held out much hope for 999 Infanterie, for example; it was composed of convicts — mostly ex-Communists and Socialists — and packed off to Tunisia.

    But it proved quite useful. One German officer summed it up as saying about ten percent of the personnel promptly deserted to the Allies, but the rest fought quite well. I’ve often thought that there was a decided irony to it all. These were the enemies of the Third Reich, but it assigned them to one of the less unpleasant fates in store for German soldiers — fighting for a few months in North Africa, then surrendering to relatively humane captors and getting shipped off to the US and Canada.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Piglet
    , @Anonymous
  128. Anonymous[303] • Disclaimer says:
    @Colin Wright

    A lot of Nazi deployment decisions seemed to have been designed to discourage the more or less unreliable from deserting. The 999. was sent to Tunisia and not the Eastern Front, probably because the KPD-inclined might be tempted to go over to the Red Army.
    A Scottish officer who was his unit’s intelligence chief mentioned that he got to know one particular German infantry regiment, the 858th, very well. This was in the Normandy fighting. I forget what division it was under. According to him, the regiment had a lot of Poles and ex-Soviets who frequently deserted. The Scottish officer was annoyed because they usually crossed over before breakfast and he was not able to eat until after he had questioned them. He was unable to get much out of the Russian-speakers as there was no common language, but the Poles often gave his unit’s artillery some beautiful targets.

  129. ‘…The 999. was sent to Tunisia and not the Eastern Front…’

    There was actually a whole series of 999 — number units formed at the end of 1942 — not just the division that went to Tunisia.

    Ironically, many were formed into fortress battalions and sent to garrison Greek islands. Again, that would have turned out to be a relatively pleasant fate for German infantry in the last two years of the war. ‘Ha ha…we’re going to send you to Mykonos and NOTHING IS GOING TO HAPPEN. That’ll teach you…’

    Of course, as you note, it would have been hard to desert.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  130. Piglet says:
    @Colin Wright

    …down to one poor Korean who had first been drafted by the Japanese, then captured by the Russians, then captured by the Germans, and finally captured by the Americans. In Normandy, no one could figure out what he was — or what he was doing there. He was probably a little unsure of that himself.

    In his book As Eagles Screamed about his participation in the Normandy invasion as a paratrooper in the 101st Airborne Division, author Donald Burgett said his unit, the 506th Parachute Infantry Regiment, came across numerous dead soldiers they assumed at the time to be Japanese. Only later was their true origin learned.

    More about the Korean fellow captured in Normandy can be found here:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yang_Kyoungjong

    The article notes there were other Asians in the Wehrmacht as well, to include ethnic Georgians.

  131. Corvinus says:
    @Colin Wright

    “The Hungarians were distinctly worse — and the Italians, of course, worse still. Here, I recall some German memoir of the post-Stalingrad debacle.”

    The author would inevitably suffer from confirmation bias and an attitude of ethnic superiority. We ought to delve deeper into other sources from a wide range of people in order to offer a more accurate portrayal of overall Romanian and Italian conduct during war.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @Anonymous
  132. TooTrue says:
    @SafeNow

    It’s also possible those ships were electronically hacked and maliciously steered into each other.

  133. TooTrue says:
    @Oscar Peterson

    Lol, remember the national IQ of Israel is ~96. Inbreeding tends to lower IQ.

  134. @Corvinus

    ‘…The author would inevitably suffer from confirmation bias and an attitude of ethnic superiority. We ought to delve deeper into other sources from a wide range of people in order to offer a more accurate portrayal of overall Romanian and Italian conduct during war.’

    There are two problems here: one logical, the other simply factual.

    First, why would a German author have felt ethnic superiority when it came to Italians but not when it came to Romanians?

    Second, Italian military performance — particularly in the Second World War — was very, very bad, everywhere. You can delve as deep as you like — the picture just gets worse. There were isolated flashes of mediocrity, and a few decent units — but the overall picture was one of incompetence and an unwillingness to fight, over and over. I could regale you with examples for pages, but shan’t.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    , @Anonymous
  135. Corvinus says:
    @Colin Wright

    “First, why would a German author have felt ethnic superiority when it came to Italians but not when it came to Romanians?”

    Except I never made that distinction, YOU did. The German author clearly felt superior than non-Germans, in this case both Romanians and Italians.

    “There were isolated flashes of mediocrity, and a few decent units — but the overall picture was one of incompetence and an unwillingness to fight, over and over.”

    Not necessarily.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_Italy_during_World_War_II#Imperial_ambitions

  136. ‘“First, why would a German author have felt ethnic superiority when it came to Italians but not when it came to Romanians?”

    Except I never made that distinction, YOU did. The German author clearly felt superior than non-Germans, in this case both Romanians and Italians…’

    How can I put this tactfully…

    Well, let’s just say we need a better token Leftie around here.

  137. @England patriot

    England patriot- you are right. Most higher NCOs have to have decent intelligence and they need plenty of lower ranking troops to have smarts. The majority of lieutenants have very good intelligence. Some lack a lot of common sense.
    If you have smarts you will survive many of the operations that the slow and the very dim witted would get wasted in. The Army weeds out the bad troops but of course in a massive war the military needs lots of cannon fodder and they use the grunts as bait so they can locate the enemy and call in artillery.
    I base what I say because of my service that began in the 1960s and where I worked and lived around soldiers and Marines for the next 40 plus years
    The sad thing about the military is that for years now our finest citizens are dying overseas while the leftists and other sociopaths flourish in the big cities and towns. Our most devoted and decent and strong men die while the garbage destroys America. The garbage includes both the very low IQ crowds and the leftists who make these sickening orders for crime and immigration where the bad guys can just flourish.

  138. Weaver1 says:
    @niteranger

    Excellent post! The spread of communism was never a threat to the US, because none of the communist societies ever worked well. The US economy could have remained dominant with only trade protections. By “doing something” and getting involved, the US has lost its dominance. And more importantly, it’s lost its middle class and general society.

    That “conservatives” embraced “neo-liberalism,” or whatever term you want to use for democracy and “capitalism,” in a Cold War struggle is bizarre. The way to win such a struggle was to not get involved… It’s incomprehensible how conservatives were fooled by the Cold War.

  139. Anonymous[862] • Disclaimer says:
    @Colin Wright

    I read somewhere that in Greece, some 999. unit members did go over to the Communist partisans, and perhaps more would have done so if most had not been deployed on small islands.
    Mykonos was probably not the worst place to spend WW2, by a long mile.

  140. Anonymous[862] • Disclaimer says:
    @Corvinus

    I think the Germans had a superiority complex towards non-Germans, and even Dutch speakers and Scandinavians in the Waffen-SS were not entirely spared it. Italians, Romanians and Hungarians would have been further down the pecking order.

  141. Anonymous[862] • Disclaimer says:
    @Colin Wright

    Intended punishments that turn out not to be punishments at all have a history. For example, in the 19th century an Irishwoman was transported to Australia. She served her sentence, then returned to London and was miserable. She stole something in hopes of being transported again, and on this sentence being passed she said, “Hurrah for old Sydney and the skies over it!”
    Not long after, transportation to Australia as a punishment ended – even its harshest conditions compared well with life in a London or Manchester slum.

  142. Anonymous[862] • Disclaimer says:
    @Colin Wright

    Italian troops fought better on the Eastern Front than in North Africa, and even then they were the Red Army’s favourite lunch, for the most part. A certain fear of being captured was a factor in them fighting better in Russia.

  143. bjondo says:
    @mark green

    Best and Brightest interesting.

    Where/who are such creatures?
    Marketing, Wall St wizards?
    Inventors of Depleted U weapons, better napalm?
    GMO, vaccines-of-destruction creators?
    Think/propaganda tanks?

    Probably in Amish country.
    Grow good food.
    Mind one’s own business.
    Keep God central.

    Most else is high falutin foolishness
    and an attack on life.

  144. bjondo says:
    @mark green

    first reply actually me thinking
    out loud via keyboard.
    shouldnt have been a “reply”.

  145. @A123

    A lot of western nations could learn from that example, or more accurately be inspired by it to revive the older tradition known as Lent. Fasting has a lot of great benefits. Nearly every religion had some element of fasting involved in it, and most of the great religious figures, from Jesus to Odin to Siddhartha, fasted to gain clarity. We did not evolve to consume a constant supply of low quality fodder.

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