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Iran, Israel and Destiny
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Although Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu struggles to form a new government and tries valiantly to stay out of jail but he has managed to find the time to pledge to spend many more shekels. Finally, it dawned on Netanyahu that Israel lags Iran in an arms race. Yesterday, Netanyahu announced that Israel must increase its defense spending by “many billions immediately and then many billions every year” to counter the threat from Iran that “has intensified in recent weeks.”

Israel has seriously mismanaged its conflict with Iran. For over a decade, Israel has relentlessly threatened and sought to intimidate Iran. Iran’s response has been effective: slowly but surely Iran encircled the Jewish state. Israel doesn’t share a border with Iran but Iran is present on so many of Israel’s borders. Its Republican Guard forces are in Syria. The Hezbollah and Islamic Jihad in Gaza and the West Bank are pro Iranian. A conflict with Iran could have lethal consequences for Israel. Israeli military experts expect that such a conflict would subject Israel’s cities to attack by thousands of well-aimed missiles and result in total devastation. The recent attack on Saudi oil facilities achieved an astonishing precision of less than one meter despite the fact that it was launched from 650 miles away and delivered with it a clear message to Israel. Iran can attack any target in Israel from Western Iraq with precision and without being detected. It proved that Iranian technology is decades ahead of anything offered by Israel, America or the west.

It now seems totally unrealistic to expect America to act militarily against Iran on behalf of Israel. Trump’s always unpredictable actions have convinced the Israeli defense establishment that the country has been left alone to deal with the Iranian threat. The American administration is only willing to act against Iran through sanctions and by now the Israelis have grasped that sanctions can easily boomerang. They nourish technological and strategic independence. It was the sanctions that made Iran into a technological superpower, pushing Iran to develop its own military industry and tactics.

As things stand, Israel used the billions of dollars it squeezed from American taxpayers to build an obsolete anti missile system that at best, might be effective against 1940 era German V2 missiles. Once again Israel prepared for the wrong war. Israel is totally unprepared for the havoc it has brought on itself. A rational mind would expect Israel to rethink its tactics and seek peace with its neighbours and with Iran. But, it seems, Netanyahu intends to follow the same belligerent hawkish path that has made Jewish history into a tragic continuum.

If Zionism was a promise to introduce a new paradigm and emancipate Jews from their fate, the Jewish State is there to ensure that the Jewish destiny remains intact.

(Republished from Gilad Atzmon by permission of author or representative)
 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: American Military, Iran, Israel 
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  1. alexander says:

    For decades I have believed that the best security for Israel, is the security found by being at peace with its neighbors.

    This security is best underwritten by how well Israel chooses to resolve its conflict with the Palestinian people.

    If Israel can learn to show the Palestinians its kind side, not just its hard side, and try its best to make the Palestinians happy….the world will respond ..

    The Palestinians, just like any people , need their freedom and their right to self determination…too .

    Iran is a mighty defender of Palestine, and it has not swayed, one inch, from that cause…

    It is now, in Israels court.

    • Replies: @Gilad Atzmon
    , @Alfred
  2. Here is an article that clearly explains why Israel will not win its next war:

    https://viableopposition.blogspot.com/2019/06/why-israel-wont-win-its-next-war.html

    Like Americans, Israelis will only tolerate a certain level of sacrifice when it comes to winning wars that have an undefinable purpose.

    • Replies: @Miggle
    , @2stateshmustate
  3. A123 says:

    The author is so confused that the number of half truths and lies makes it hard to know where to begin.

    Israeli military experts expect that such a conflict would subject Israel’s cities to attack by thousands of well-aimed missiles and result in total devastation.

    Israel has been attacking the Iranian facilities used to prepare missles, thus preventing more than limited numbers from reaching Iranian troops. Iranian al’Hezbollah and Iranian al’Hamas have thousands of virtually unaimed Katyusha pattern rockets. These weapons are of such low quality they incidentally kill more Muslims than intended targets.

    Iron Dome, a system not used by the Saudis, is optimized to the threat of small, low speed, Katyushas and drones. And, while Israel’s small size is an an issue for conventional combat, it actually helps here. Israel has a much higher level of protection per square mile of country than the Saudis.

    The recent attack on Saudi oil facilities achieved an astonishing precision of less than one meter despite the fact that it was launched from 650 miles away and delivered with it a clear message to Israel.

    It delivered a message to both Israel and Iran. If range is not an issue, Israel will hold Ayatollah Khameni personally responsible for any Iranian attack even if delivered by proxy.

    It was the sanctions that made Iran into a technological superpower, pushing Iran to develop its own military industry and tactics.

    Technological superpower! *ROTFL*

    Nuclear capable, Israeli F35’s have allowed themselves to be seen entering and leaving Iranian airspace. Iran’s “new”, 1960’s technology, F5 Tiger knockoffs have been proven 100% ineffective at stopping them.

    A rational mind would expect Israel to rethink its tactics and seek peace with its neighbours and with Iran. But, it seems, Netanyahu intends to follow the same belligerent hawkish path.

    A rational mind would expect Iran to rethink its tactics and seek peace with its neighbours and with Israel. But, Iran is led by the mentally ill sociopath Ayatollah Khameni who is incapable of anything other than unfocused belligerence.

    The question is will the Iranian people and military:

    -1- Intentionally suicide by provoking use of Israel’s nuclear arsenal, for which Iran has *NO* defense?
    -2- Intentionally suicide by starting a Sunni-Shia war where Sunnis outnumber Shia by more than four-to-one.
    -3- Replace the sociopathic Ayatollah with a sane leader before the end comes?

    One hopes for #3. However, the outcome for Christian nations (Russia and the US) is quite rosy if the Iranians chose #2 and the associated obliteration of all Persian Gulf oil extraction infrastructure.

    PEACE 😇

  4. Tick Tock says:

    The time has come for payment for the Sins of the Jews for thousands of years. Its going to be ugly but well deserved none the less.

    • Replies: @Miggle
  5. Saggy says: • Website

    If Zionism was a promise to introduce a new paradigm and emancipate Jews from their fate,

    Is this a joke? Zionism is the reconquest of Canaan, the core of the Torah, hardly a ‘new paradigm’.

  6. @alexander

    The irrational inclinations performed by Israelis and their leaders are a devastating proof of the failure of the Zionist project.. it was there to make jews ppl like all other ppl.. instead we follow the actions of a racist state like no other …

    • Replies: @mr meener
  7. @Saggy

    This is obviously a very limited vision of Zionism… when Zionism was born it was a minority/marginal movement.. it accepted the gist of the European anti Jewish argument .. the land grabbing, conquest and plunderous enthusiasm came later .. when? Some say that it was after 1929, others insist it was in 48 , a few believe it was the 67 war.. I actually believe that it is embedded in the transition from Zionism to a Jewish State that made this shift inevitable…

  8. @Saggy

    Well, it was originally sold as a new paradigm by the Zionists.

    But yes, it has the same Judeosupremacist foundation as the tall tales of the Torah. And with religious nationalism in the ascendent in Israel, the whole thing does seem to be coming full circle.

  9. @A123

    Interesting that Iran refused to respond to Iraqi chemical attacks for at least five (and perhaps up to seven) years during the 1980s–even when the US was providing Saddam with targeting intelligence for use of nerve agents. What other country would do that? Certainly not WMD-loving Israel.

    Juxtaposed with the Judeosupremacists in Jerusalem, even Khomeini was a pleasant contrast. And Khamenei is a veritable jolly old uncle compared to repellent creatures like Bibi.

    • Replies: @A123
  10. mr meener says:
    @A123

    israeli F-35’s ???? you mean the F-35’sUS gifted to the demonic jews by US taxpayers. I say trump called off the attack on Iran cause he knew pissrael cities would be flattened. trump dont care about US troop deaths only cares about jews dying. go back to hell mr canard tropestein

  11. druid55 says:
    @A123

    Bloviating hasbarist is back!

    • Replies: @A123
  12. mr meener says:
    @Gilad Atzmon

    Hitler predicted that a jew state would be the HQ’s for jews to go out loot the world and run back to their haven where they cannot be extradited also where they could set up a world govt. and he was right

    • Agree: Patrikios Stetsonis
    • Replies: @flashlight joe
  13. @A123

    Observing Trumps diplomatic behaviour, it finally dawned on me that his methodology is to emulate a similar methodology as “The Good Soldier Svejk”. What clued me in was this:

    “Trump’s always unpredictable actions have convinced the Israeli defense establishment that the country has been left alone to deal with the Iranian threat.”

    He might appear insane, but if he engineers the U$A into a position that allies feel that he is incompetent, that allows the adversaries the upper hand because the U$A will become less and less involved. That’s a whole lot of resolve from thje U$A to be missing and most likely the only help will be the U$A’s disfunctional armaments.

  14. A123 says:
    @druid55

    Lying Muslim Decepticon has Returned.

    Iran55, Lie as much as you wasn’t to….. No one believes your gibbering….

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @Patrikios Stetsonis
  15. A123 says:
    @Oscar Peterson

    Interesting that Iran refused to respond to Iraqi chemical attacks

    Why would Iran complain about Iraq killing expendable Kurds?

    The Persian Ayatollah might have paid attention to Persian deaths…. However, Saddam was using WMD’s to butcher Kurds in Iran and Northern Iraq. The Ayatollah was probably sending Saddam Thank You notes and birthday presents.

    Of course, the fact that Saddam used WMD’s goes along way towards explaining why people thought Saddam had WMD’s……

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @Oscar Peterson
    , @Engineer
  16. peterAUS says:

    ….such a conflict would subject Israel’s cities to attack by thousands of well-aimed missiles and result in total devastation….
    …Iranian technology is decades ahead of anything offered by Israel, America or the west…
    …It now seems totally unrealistic to expect America to act militarily against Iran on behalf of Israel….
    ….It was the sanctions that made Iran into a technological superpower…

    Interesting (inside) joke by the author and some people around. Not flattering for the target audience.

    • Replies: @A123
  17. @A123

    Why would Iran complain about Iraq killing expendable Kurds?

    You seem to be laboring under the misconception that Halabja in 1988 was the totality of Iraqi chemical strikes. (Or perhaps you are simply a dishonest Jew.)

    Long before Halabya–as early as 1981 or 1982–Saddam was using chemical weapons against Iran, especially after his initial invasion proved disastrous and the Iranians began to take the upper hand.

    In 1987-88, when an Iranian breakthrough looked imminent, the US provided targeting information to Iraq so they could dump nerve agents and other chemicals on Iranian troop concentrations.

    In the later years of the war, the Iraqis also started to target Iranian civilian populations and at the very end, threatened to target Tehran causing a temporary exodus of a substantial chunk of the city’s population.

    So, your notion that Iraqi CW use was directed exclusively–or even mainly–at the Kurds is so erroneous that I have to think that it can’t be a mistake on your part and must, instead, be a function of Jew mendacity. The US has focused exclusively on Halabja because we don’t like admitting that we facilitated Saddam’s use of chemicals against Iran for years before we did a 180 and started whining about his CW–though only in connection to Halabja.

    The refusal of the Khomeni and the Iranian government to respond to Iraqi CW (which they easily could have done) even though it led to them losing the war is an act of forbearance without precedent in the annals of warfare. It certainly sets Iran apart from regional WMD-mongers like Israel.

    Now you’ve been educated.

  18. A123 says:
    @peterAUS

    Peter,

    It is hard to tell jokes from ignorance… For example can one “Break the Giliad Code”?

    He wrote this up in #7:

    The irrational inclinations performed by Israelis and their leaders are a devastating proof of the failure of the Zionist project.. it was there to make jews ppl like all other ppl.. instead we follow the actions of a racist state like no other …

    But that is obviously incomprehensible.

    Let us try to “Code Break” #7 to find the actual meaning by substituting logical words and phrases for obviously irrational ones.

    The irrational inclinations performed by Iranian leaders are a devastating proof of the failure of the Islamic National Socialist project.. it was there to make National Socialists ppl like all other ppl.. instead we follow the actions of a racist state like no other …

    All of a sudden, the incomprehensible becomes crystal clear.

    However if Giliad being coerced, he cannot confirm we are correct about “Code Breaking” his writing.

    PEACE 😇

  19. Engineer says:
    @A123

    I will limit my reaction to this comment on a specific factual point for the benefit of other readers. Iraq’s chemical attacks on Iran were not limited to attacks on civilian targets in those regions of Iran where a majority are Kurdish. In fact, a strong case can be made that the most militarily significant attacks were at the southern end of the front and on the Iranian military, which consisted of volunteers and draftees from across the entire country. There is a table listing various attacks on a Wikipedia page entitled “Iraqi Chemical Attachs Against Iran”.

    • Replies: @A123
  20. I wonder if Israel has been deterred.

    Has she mounted any more attacks on Iranian forces in Syria or Iraq since Iran conducted her little demonstration in Saudi Arabia?

    Maybe she’ll just have to content herself with her Palestinian victims from here on out.

  21. @Oscar Peterson

    ‘…You seem to be laboring under the misconception that Halabja in 1988 was the totality of Iraqi chemical strikes. (Or perhaps you are simply a dishonest Jew.)’

    It’s a good question. A123 is awfully dumb to be a Jew. He makes Fran Taubman look like womanhood’s answer to Albert Einstein.

    Still, it’s almost invariably the least of the Jews who are rabid Zionists. The dumber they are, and the more insecure they are, the more they turn to Israel for an alternate, corporate identity. A123 could be Jewish. After all, a group average IQ of 109 still means that for every Jew out there with an IQ of 129, there’s another with an IQ of 89.

    Somebody has be on the left side of the curve, eh A?

  22. bagha says:

    Atzmon continues his crypto-hasbarism by insisting that Iran launched the attacks against Saudi oil facilities even though they denied doing so, and the wording of the article is contrived to slip in this claim amid ironic praise for Iran’s technological capabilities, which aren’t exactly great.

    Seeing Israelis (and Atzmon has the most Israeli personal presentation I’ve ever seen on Youtube) push this line about the Saudi attacks makes me think it was actually a Zio-American false flag.

    • Agree: utu, NoseytheDuke
    • Replies: @utu
  23. Miggle says:
    @Tick Tock

    There’s no need, no justification, for punishing the Jews of today for what Jews did centuries ago. If they are to be punished it will be for what they are doing today.

    Let’s focus on the fundamental evil of Judaism, not Jews, and teach Jews to be human, to join the human race. Judaism itself, whose top value is hate, hating non-Jews, whose next topmost values are accusing others of hating them; and lying; and deceptions more broadly; and “justice”, meaning revenge, the eye for an eye version; and mountains of superstitions; and so on, needs to disappear.

    That weird totalitarian deception, nothing beyond the above but a mountain of legalistic rituals, neither a religion nor a race but claiming to be both, needs to just disappear.

    Israel is helping the process, exposing its evil, so it will disappear, sooner or later.

    • Replies: @The Dark Night
  24. utu says:
    @bagha

    We do not know his motives/beliefs but you are correct that his recent writings on Iran is de facto hasbara which will result in justifying for sending more money to Israel because poor Israel is weak. No different than Andrei Martyanov hyperbolic stories of Russian extraordinary Wunderwaffe that certainly are welcomed by the Pentagon and MIC.

    • Replies: @UncommonGround
  25. A123 says:
    @Engineer

    There is a table listing various attacks on a Wikipedia page entitled “Iraqi Chemical Attachs Against Iran”.

    Your belief in Wikipedia as a source is somewhat troubling, but let’s move past that.

    — What response did Iran withhold? Are you admitting that Iran has WMD’s?

    (A) If Iran has WMD’s — Then the current sanctions make a great deal of sense. A nation that weaponized chemicals has no inhibitions about going nuclear.

    (B) If Iran did not have WMD’s — Then Iran was fully engaged in the fight. There is not much else they could do without compromising their overall strategy. This means they had a competent General that had not yet been exterminated by the Ayatollah. It does not reflect any type of ‘superior morality’.

    Which is it…. A or B? Inquiring minds want to know.

    Please answer the question directly, avoiding evasion and lies. You do not want to behave like 60 IQ, failed Muslim deceiver, Colin “The Fact Free Troll” Wright.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @Oscar Peterson
  26. @utu

    Utu, I don’t think that you are right about Atzmon. If you had read his books you’d know that what you say isn’t right. They certainly wouldn’t need him in order to send more money to The Country. Even if your view of what happened in S.A. is right, it’s conceivable that the means for that operation came from Iran.

    Even though, I don’t agree completely with Atzmon’s conclusions. Iran doesn’t have an interest in provoking a military conflict, while The Country is also happy with the present situation of heavy sanctions, a low level of conflict which may be used to get more advantages from the US and the fact that they can get material for ideological propaganda.

    The Country has thrieved during conflicts and wars. The national conflict culminated in 1948 with a war that allowed the conquest of far more territory than they had and the ethnic cleansing of their opponents. The same happened in 1967. The intifada which was planed and initiated by their prime ministers allowed the expansion of settlements and the total submission of the defeated population. So, conflict is the only means of preventing peace and an agreement. The army must be the most important industry in the country. A considerable part of their exports is linked with “security” (insecurity for the others). The Country needs conflicts and it has been successful in that.

  27. “…he[Netanyahu] has managed to find the time to pledge to spend many more shekels[American taxpayer dollars].”

    Since the start of the WOT I have come to utterly loathe our two best friends in the ME, Israel and KSA, to a degree that reading about the recent strikes on Saudi oil facilities and about the defeat of Saudi troops by Houthi rebels now makes me smile.

    The WOT, over 18 years now, has cost us trillions, directly and indirectly, and does not even count the lives destroyed at home and abroad and opportunities lost.

    And for those in the West, in the end the entire farce will have ultimately been for nothing.

    • Agree: Miggle, Kratoklastes
  28. @The Dark Night

    Uh, because there were people living there, maybe.

    (You’re a troll, right? Your ham-fistedness can’t really be accidental, surely?)

    • Replies: @The Dark Night
  29. @A123

    Mr A123, don’t take my word for any of the above. Take Bibi’s commitment to many more Billions of $ so the country may be able to encounter the current Iranian threat. If you don’t trust Bivi it is more than understandable, you can also read top Israeli military analysts such as Ron Ben Yishai https://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-5604138,00.html or Nir Dvory https://www.mako.co.il/news-military/2019_q4/Article-8f1b2c5cd37ad61027.htm&utm_source=Email&utm_medium=Share ,,, they will tell you how concerned Israeli military is of Iranian technology…

    • Replies: @A123
    , @anon
  30. A123 says:
    @Gilad Atzmon

    I cannot read the content at your links. You may want to cite articles in English. Given how badly the free translators can mangle content, I try to avoid those tools wherever possible.

    ___

    Also, please stay on point. The subject is not Israeli spending, it is Iran’s status as a superpower. In your original article you said unequivocally:

    sanctions that made Iran into a technological superpower,

    Please back up your assertion with objective evidence that Iran is a superpower, technologically equal (or even close) to recognized superpowers such as Russia, China, and the U.S.

    There is quite a bit of objective evidence showing that Iran is many decades behind superpower technology (1):

    we are again greeted with headlines for yet another “100% indigenously made” fighter jet, this time a “state of the art” two-seater called the Kowsar. And yet it appears identical to an F-5F Tiger II two-seater jet.

    The Tiger II was used primarily in the 1960’s although enhanced versions were available as late as the 1980’s.

    PEACE 😇

    _____

    (1) https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/irans-navy-has-fake-fighter-jet-problem-85256

  31. anon[117] • Disclaimer says:
    @Gilad Atzmon

    I think the “billion” part Netnoooo is interested in . Germany or US will fork it out . Netnoo can go back and say to voters ‘ I can wok with America I can get the money I also move them like I move my [or your conscience] fingers . Can Lieberman or Gratz do that? No they will misfire and brag too much or offend the sensibilities [ but I netanoo doubt that , I don’t think any sensibility is left there in between those 2 ears of a typical American head ] ) .I shall be the PM”

    Peace to 123

  32. @The Dark Night

    By that logic, Eskimos who convert to Lutheranism could ‘reconquer’ Germany. It’s literally that stupid.

    La Raza (the planned reconquest of the US southwest) at least has the moral advantage of being undertaken by genuine descendants of those from whom the land was stolen… unlike the infestation of Palestine by a bunch of Eastern European hovel-dwellers and their anchor-babies.

    Since I henceforth claim to be a direct descendant from Boudicca and the Hochdorf Prince, doubtless you’ll also support my claim over my people’s historic ‘homelands’…big chunks of England and Germany.

    • Replies: @The Dark Night
  33. @Kratoklastes

    First of all at least a half of the Israeli Jews are from Sephardic, Yemenite and Ethiopian diasporas. Only about a half are Ashkenazi, that is European.

    Concerning the reconquest, I’d like you to present a proof that the Arabs had more rights to that land. Why should I give them a preference? They were invaders.

  34. @The Dark Night

    Good luck using your huge population base against the rest of the Middle East. I can’t wait to see it.
    Israeli cowards always seem to want others to do the fighting and dying though. So much for reconquest.
    I’ll believe it when I see it. When the average military age male exits the sodomy train in Tel Aviv and shows up for drill.
    Until then, Israel will head towards irrelevancy as its’ inhabitants spread disease by sodomy.

    • Replies: @The Dark Night
  35. @Kolya Krassotkin

    People were living there?

    For a Russian this is not a good position to begin an argument with.

  36. As things stand, Israel used the billions of dollars it squeezed from American taxpayers to build an obsolete anti missile system that at best, might be effective against 1940 era German V2 missiles. Once again Israel prepared for the wrong war. Israel is totally unprepared for the havoc it has brought on itself. A rational mind would expect Israel to rethink its tactics and seek peace with its neighbours and with Iran. But, it seems, Netanyahu intends to follow the same belligerent hawkish path that has made Jewish history into a tragic continuum.

    You have been writing or posting a lot about Israels security, far from your usually “Judaism is the cause of all evils in the world” with choosiness and malfunction.

    So WTF do you know about Israels security or its defense systems. No one is going to be talking to you about that stuff. and the last article you posted by a channel 2 news station guy had nothing when I googled him. I came up more than that guy in s google search. He is such a lightweight and is not connected to anything remotely concerning people in the know, other than his hate for zionism. That guy is a phony.
    I hear that Israel has weapons no one knows about. Israel has ardently with the permission of Russia stopped the encirclement by Hezbollah and Iran in Syria with its many bombings, even in Iraq,
    And listen up Gilad, no one cares if Israel destroy Hezbollah and Hamas, Iranian proxies. I mean no one. Hezbollah has an entire country captive.
    Iran will never ever face Israel head on, for what ever damage it inflicts on Israel, Iran will be leveled.
    You can bet the ranch on it. And for your own good stay away from subjects you know nothing about you are embarrassing yourself.

    • Replies: @renfro
    , @NoseytheDuke
  37. @steinbergfeldwitzcohen

    It’s always nice to have a chat with an experienced and brave armchair warrior, such as yourself.

    • Replies: @Art
  38. Art says:
    @The Dark Night

    All those who support Israel and the Jews are Dark – period.

    Think Peace — Art

    p.s. Immoral losers also.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
    , @renfro
  39. @Art

    Nobody on this website is darker then you Art. Nobody. You are a hater nothing darker then a hater.
    You are a racist nothing darker then a racist.
    I am neither and I am a Jew. I support Jews and Israel. I believe all people are good and deserve freedom and life and equality. That is light
    Racist haters like yourself are stuck in darkness for the rest of your lives.

    • Replies: @Kolya Krassotkin
    , @A123
    , @Art
  40. renfro says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Fran …..the mouse that roars…..lol.

  41. renfro says:
    @Art

    Israel and the Jews are Dark

    That reminds me of a lady I knew since I was a child whose second husband was Jewish, not very religious I guess as she never converted to Judaism.
    When he died though she had a real tussle with the local rabbi about his burial as he wanted to be cremated.
    Anyway I went to pay my respects and during our conversation she said that Jews were a ”dark people.”..meaning I suppose their inborn doom and gloom attitude toward the world.

  42. @Fran Taubman

    Poor Fran, you seem to have everything backwards. Iran isn’t seeking to face Israel head on, it has been pointed out to you previously that Iran never said that it would wipe Israel off the map but it has stated that Israel will disappear from the pages on history, which is a different thing altogether. I infer from that that Iran believes that Israel is its own worst enemy and will bring about its own downfall.

    It is Israel that seeks to destroy Iran, not the other way round however much you insist. Israel, as usual, would prefer that American blood is spilled against Iran rather than Israeli blood and so far that hasn’t happened despite your own best efforts in distorting facts.

  43. @Fran Taubman

    Fran, you’re really Dark Knight when he puts on his falsies and slips into his dress. You’re his alter ego.

    C’mon. You can level with us. We’re all friends here.

    Am I right?

  44. A123 says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Nobody on this website is darker then you Art. Nobody.

    There are a number of hater posters here. While “Warmonger” Art is certainly abominable, let us not forget:
    — “Taqiyya” Talha
    — “Reject” Renfro
    — Colin “The Fact Free Troll” Wright
    — Truth3 “Mr. Incomprehensible”

    Alas, you have to ignore the mental drinkers as a price of trying to protect people from their raving lunacy. Sad, but True.

    PEACE 😇

  45. The Dark Night [AKA "Sagi Harari"] says:
    @Miggle

    Judaism hates non-Jews as much as non-Jews hate Judaism. Read the Roman historians, Christian theologians, European philosophers and the so-called “folklore,” which was written to make people hate the Jews.

    Nowhere in the Talmud or elsewhere have I seen so much of hate towards another people and another religion, as in those Christian folk tales and the writings of Christian monks. And the most important fact is that it is all a lie.

    As well as the idea that Judaism is all about “legalistic rituals,” whatever that means. In truth Judaism is very deep, and the legalistic parts of the Talmud are not all of Judaism.

    • Replies: @Miggle
  46. Miggle says:
    @The Dark Night

    Judaism hates non-Jews as much as non-Jews hate Judaism. Read the Roman historians, Christian theologians, European philosophers and the so-called “folklore,” which was written to make people hate the Jews.

    You would need to provide specific quotations and references, instead of saying read every book ever written. With that mad response you prove my point.

    Whatever anti-Jewish writings there ever were were a reaction, and my “anti-Jewish writings” is likely only to mean justified criticisms of Jews, not passages “written to make people hate the Jews.” Yes, you can find over many centuries, within entire populations, a number of such individual writings, but that’s all they are.

    Whereas hatred of non-Jews, particularly Christians, is an essential, institutionalized part of Judaism. Jesus said “Love your enemies. Do good to them that hate you.” The Code of Maimonides says kill all the Christians you can. And there is the often-mentioned Talmud depiction of Jesus forever boiling in a vat of excrement in Hell. That is hate speech, the hatred fundamental to Judaism.

    • Replies: @The Dark Night
  47. The Dark Night [AKA "Sagi Harari"] says:
    @Miggle

    If your criticism of Jews is based on false information, how can it be justified? What makes you think that anti-Jewish writings were always a reaction? To what?

    The Talmud, about which most of you know very little, was recorded at about 700 CE. There had been a lot of anti-Jewish writings prior to that. For example Tacitus wrote that Jews were lepers who were expelled from Egypt.

    “The whole of Egypt was once plagued by a wasting disease which caused bodily disfigurement. So pharaoh Bocchorisnote went to the oracle of Hammon to ask for a cure, and was told to purify his kingdom by expelling the victims to other lands, as they lay under a divine curse.” The Jews are under the divine curse. That’s the beginning.

    He continues: “Moses prescribed for them a novel religion quite different from those of the rest of mankind. Among the Jews all things are profane that we hold sacred; on the other hand they regard as permissible what seems to us immoral.”

    He doesn’t elaborate on this. What was immoral to the Romans?

    “The other practices of the Jews are sinister and revolting, and have entrenched themselves by their very wickedness.” He doesn’t specify which practices he has in mind. What was more sinister, more wicked than the Roman’s culture?

    “Proselytes to Jewry adopt the same practices, and the very first lesson they learn is to despise the gods, shed all feelings of patriotism, and consider parents, children and brothers as readily expendable.” This is bollocks.

    His final word is, “the Jewish belief is paradoxical and degraded.”

    Then the Talmud was recorded and I can’t remember anything in it as much anti-gentile. Long before the Talmud “You are of your father the devil” was in the New Testament. And though Jesus indeed said to bless your enemies the Christians always cursed them instead.

    Yes in the Talmud Jesus was depicted as being punished in Hell, for all the trouble his rebellion had brought upon the people, Jews and gentiles alike. However this is a point of view, an opinion. This is not a dogma. And some rabbis consider Jesus a failed Messiah.

    And again, what is the Code of Maimonides and where did he say to kill all Christians? “Kill all the Christians you can.” Please, reference it in the text of this “code” or whatever that is, I want to see it.

    Will you?

    • Troll: Miggle
    • Replies: @Miggle
  48. @A123

    Interesting that you replied to Engineer but not to me. It’s obvious you know almost nothing about the Iran-Iraq War.

    Your belief in Wikipedia as a source is somewhat troubling, but let’s move past that.

    The table Engineer is referring to links to a CIA document that enumerates Iraqi chem strikes on Iran. Why don’t you go look at it? Here it is:

    https://www.cia.gov/library/reports/general-reports-1/iraq_wmd_2004/chap5.html#sect1

    What response did Iran withhold?

    I already told you the answer to that. Iran repeatedly attack the Iranian military and later Iranian civilian targets with blister and nerve agents. Despite years of these attacks, Iran did not retaliate with CW against Saddam. Do you dispute this reality?

    Iran has been a party to the Chemical Weapons Convention (unlike Israel) since 1997.

    If Iran did not have WMD’s — Then Iran was fully engaged in the fight.

    This is a meaningless syllogism. Of course Iran was “fully engaged in the fight.” They were defending against an Iraqi invasion backed by the US, Saudi Arabia, and others. It was an existential struggle. How could they not be fully engaged?

    It’s interesting that in the entire discussion of the supposed Iranian nuclear weapons program, the media have avoided any mention of this very interesting precedent–Iran’s refusal to use chemical weapons even when those very munitions were being used with devastating effect against Iran. Don’t you find that interesting?

    • Replies: @A123
  49. Art says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Racist haters like yourself are stuck in darkness for the rest of your lives.

    Frannie — idealistic Christians hate the sin – not the sinner.

    You have nothing to fear from me – I promulgate “Think Peace and Do No Harm.” I do not want to hurt you – I want to end the cycle of death between Gentile and Jew.

    I feel sorry for you Little Jews who have been traumatized at a very young age, to never have empathy for your fellow humans. It is you who are condemned by your elders, to lifelong darkness.

    It is you Jews who stick it to humanity with your ceaseless single-minded dishonesty and mind games. Here is an example.

    Child Abusing Murderer Randy Halprin Gets Stay of Execution After Accusing Judge of ‘Antisemitism’

    Jewish prisoner Randy Halprin confessed to severely beating an 18-month-old toddler in 1996 and fracturing the boy’s skull and was sentenced to 30 years in prison before breaking out and murdering a police officer in 2000.

    Halprin was scheduled to be executed on October 10th but the Anti-Defamation League and “100 Jewish attorneys from Dallas and throughout the state” rallied to his defense and got a stay of execution by accusing his judge of being “antisemitic.”

    https://www.informationliberation.com/?id=60790

    p.s. I oppose the state killing of the Jew Halpern – and anyone else.

  50. A123 says:
    @Oscar Peterson

    There is only one of me, so I cannot respond to every attack.

    Despite years of these attacks, Iran did not retaliate with CW against Saddam. Do you dispute this reality? … Iran has been a party to the Chemical Weapons Convention (unlike Israel) since 1997.

    I’m still having trouble following your position. Are you selecting Case #1 or Case #2.

    -1- If Iran has Chemical WMD, then the threat of Nuclear is very real. This helps the case for real containment. Not the ludicrously ineffective JCOPA.

    -2-If Iran does not have Chemical WMD, then what “response” was held?

    It’s interesting that in the entire discussion of the supposed Iranian nuclear weapons program, the media have avoided any mention of this very interesting precedent … Don’t you find that interesting?

    The Fake Stream Media is so inept, that I am not surprised at their superficiality and bias anymore. Did you really expect competent coverage from them?

    PEACE 😇

  51. renfro says:

    Oh WOW!….now this is a thriller of a book about how Israel gets into a war with the US. The Exodus Betrayal: A President Confronts Israel.”……buy it.

    Israeli attack on Iran would have nightmare global consequences — a thriller explains
    Philip Weiss on October 11, 2019

    [MORE]

    Gil Maguire
    People in foreign policy circles can’t stop talking about a war with Iran, as if there’s sense in such hostilities. Benjamin Netanyahu has been pumping for such a war for years and in his political predicament come very close to unleashing it. Now Trump’s absence of relish for Middle East conflict has upped Israeli fears that Israel is on its own– so Israel should attack Iran. “We’re not talking about a major war, but some clashes,” Jonathan Regev said on i24 News today.
    This is the greatest pleasure of a thriller published this summer, in which a former intelligence analyst imagines what happens when Israel attacks Iran with well-laid plans, and a global humanitarian and environmental nightmare, and near-world-war, ensue. The book puts the lie to such cheerleading.
    Gil Maguire is a friend– and an advertiser on our site — but despite that conflict I thought it worth reviewing the scenario he lays out in “The Exodus Betrayal: A President Confronts Israel.” Because Maguire’s understanding of hubris and folly and military overreach, even if a bit overblown for dramatic purposes, provides a cautionary tale that has surely also occured to the U.S. security establishment, and ought to be more regular fare in our media.
    Here’s the story. It’s weeks away from a presidential election in the U.S. in the present day, a neophyte president Hailey Hannagan is fighting for her life. Israeli PM Ari Ben-David decides to attack Iran because Iran is getting close to having enough enriched uranium to build a nuclear weapon and Ben-David thinks he can force the president’s hand to “provide at least defensive support for Israel.”
    Israeli security chiefs argue with the political leaders that Iran is a rational actor that won’t attack Israel even if it has a nuke. They warn that the operation is way too risky. Iran is too far away from Israel.
    But the prime minister and defense minister are filled with hubris and paranoia, convinced that Iran will dare to attack Israel if it has a nuclear weapon. And the Defense Minister says, “General, do not take counsel of your fears.”
    As for the distance problem, Israel has solved it. It has bribed Iran’s northern neighbor, Azerbaijan, to let it fill a southern base with military assets; Lankoran is close to the Iranian border and a mere 200 miles from Tehran! The Israelis sneak three cargo planes loaded with Israeli special forces and bunker-buster bombs to Lankoran. They ready 25 F15I attack bombers, state of the art.
    The Israelis decide to use the Muslim holiday of Eid al-Adha to launch the attack, ten days before the presidential election. “The Iranians are in for a big surprise.”
    But the Russians discover the Israeli presence in Azerbaijan and an Israeli listening post in Georgia and decide it’s time to stop the Israeli meddling in the Caucuses. They inform the Iranians of the Israeli plans, and the Iranians ready forces near the Azeri border to attack the Israeli base. Iran gets permission from Iraqi to move fighter planes there to attack Israeli aerial refueling tankers when they are in Iraqi air space.
    “The Israelis are in for a big surprise,” says an Iranian commander.
    The Israeli attack is massive, and very quickly a disaster. Thirty Israeli bombers, a fifth of the air force, are shot down by long range missiles that Russians supplied Iran that Israel did not know about. The Israeli air force commander wants to turn other bombers back. Prime Minister Ben-David says, “the attack must proceed.”
    The Israeli bombers take out nuclear sites at Arak, Isfahan and Natanz, but the bomber headed for Fordow is crippled and when its pilot, a messianic Jew, sees the sunlight glaring off a mosque dome in Qom, he decides this is his chance to kill the biblical Amalekites and start an apocalyptic battle. He destroys the mosque, killing thousands of worshipers, a more gruesome attack than 9/11.
    “Everyone in the Muslim world, as well as the rest of the world, is glued to their TV sets…”
    Meantime, Israeli bombers attacking the Bushehr nuclear plant make the mistake of hitting the nuclear reactor itself, blowing up the containment dome and releasing radiation.
    “Good god, there will be hell to pay for this,” says a pilot.
    President Hannagan, who was vice president till the president suddenly died earlier that year, is awakened before dawn as the Israeli attack stumbles. “Wake up, the world is going to hell.” Prices of oil have tripled. Rioting has begun in Pakistan, Indonesia, and India. In days to come, dozens of U.S. embassies in Africa and Asia will be attacked.
    Israel is in way over its head. And meantime Iran attacks the Israeli refueling tankers over Iraq, downing six of eight of them. And the Iranians cross into Azerbaijan, storm Lankoran and destroy nearly 100 Israeli aircraft and capture the Israeli force there.
    The Russians invade Georgia to destroy the Israeli listening post. The Iranians blow up an oil pipeline in Canada to warn the U.S. about its global reach.
    The Israelis attack Lebanon and are surprised by the missiles that Hezbollah unleashes on northern Israel.
    And with Israeli missile defenses decimated, the Iranians strike many targets in Israel with long-range missiles.
    “The Israelis began to get a taste of what it felt like to be a Gazan, boxed in from all directions and subjected to a merciless bombing camaign,” Maguire writes.
    Hannagan rises to the occasion. Her political advisers urge her to help Israel out. She refuses. “We’re heading downhill with no brakes.” Further hostilities are not in the American interest. They will turn the Persian Gulf into a “total war zone,” Iran will attack Saudi Arabia and close down shipping in the Strait of Hormuz, and put the U.S. in a hostile stance toward Russia and China.
    When the Israeli Prime Minister calls the president, Hannagan refuses to take the call, passing him to a desk officer at the State Department. “[He] is about to learn who the superpower is in this relationship,” she says.
    The president then makes a speech denouncing the attack and saying that “dire predictions” by the U.S. have proved accurate. She is working for a ceasefire but comes under enormous pressure from the hawkish pro-Israel lobby. Why don’t you support our ally? she is asked. Because the U.S. has many allies, and Israel’s “irrational and immoral” actions have put many of them in serious “jeopardy,” she responds.
    The coverage of the Israeli attacks shifts public opinion in the U.S. A Jewish group that opposes the occupation becomes the center of campus protests against Israel’s actions. Usually docile congresspeople turn on Israel!
    There are more unexpected consequences. A rogue Iranian commander attacks the U.S. Sixth Fleet in the Gulf of Oman and kills 6000 Americans. The Iranians apologize immediately and say they will make reparations. President Hannagan then gives a speech blaming Israel and its lobby for overriding serious American misgivings about an attack.
    “This war, as we predicted, has been a disaster for Israel… as well as for our country and the rest of the world.”
    It doesn’t seem that the war can get any worse. But it does. Israel attacks the U.S., and the two countries are in a state of war. The president is determined to show who has the stronger military! And meantime she begins rounding up Israel lobbyists as spies….
    I won’t give away more of the plot than that, but you get the feeling. The war is an unmitigated disaster for Israel. Its willful destruction of Hamas and Hezbollah forces over the last 20 years have ill-prepared it for an encounter with a major rival.

    Maguire’s nightmare scenario strikes me as a good antidote to all the warmongerers still active in the U.S. and Israeli political establishments. They should heed this warning.”

  52. @A123

    -1- If Iran has Chemical WMD, then the threat of Nuclear is very real.

    By what logic? Does this mean that nuclear weapons could have been used in WWI but weren’t?

    • Replies: @A123
  53. Miggle says:
    @The Dark Night

    And again, what is the Code of Maimonides and where did he say to kill all Christians? “Kill all the Christians you can.” Please, reference it in the text of this “code” or whatever that is, I want to see it.

    Will you?

    I’m tired of your trolling, and will now just mark you as a troll and ignore you. Your deviousness and silliness should not be wasting my time.

    But since you have made that specific request, and call yourself a Jew but know nothing of the Rambam, I will supply that reference and quote it as my last words to you.

    See the book by an Israeli, Israel Shahak, who spent his later childhood in Bergen-Belsen, his Jewish History, Jewish Religion: The Weight of Three Thousand Years, a book Ron Unz has reviewed here in his essay, American Pravda: Oddities of the Jewish Religion. I refer to the final edition (2008) of Shahak’s work, and quote from pages 29-30. The various numbers appearing in the quotation are generally references to the end-notes of the book.

    In 1962, a part of the Maimonidean Code referred to above, the so-called Book of Knowledge, which contains the most basic rules of Jewish faith and practice, was published in Jerusalem in a bilingual edition, with the English translation facing the Hebrew text.20 The latter has been restored to its original purity, and the command to exterminate Jewish infidels appears in it in full: ‘It is a duty to exterminate them with one’s own hands.’ In the English translation this is somewhat softened to: ‘It is a duty to take active measures to destroy them.’ But then the Hebrew text goes on to specify the prime examples of ‘infidels’ who must be exterminated: ‘Such as Jesus of Nazareth and his pupils, and Tzadoq and Baitos21 and their pupils, may the name of the wicked rot’. Not one word of this appears in the English text on the facing page (78a). And, even more significant, in spite of the wide circulation of this book among scholars in the English-speaking countries, not one of them has, as far as I know, protested against this glaring deception.

    Shahak continues:

    The second example comes from the USA, again from an English translation of a book by Maimonides. Apart from his work on the codification of the Talmud, he was also a philosopher and his Guide to the Perplexed is justly considered to be the greatest work of Jewish religious philosophy and is widely read and used even today. Unfortunately, in addition to his attitude towards non-Jews generally and Christians in particular, Maimonides was also an anti-Black racist.

    • Replies: @The Dark Night
  54. A123 says:
    @NoseytheDuke

    Nosey,

    By what logic?

    It is pretty simple logic:

    — If Iran has developed Chemical WMD’s.
    — That logically means that Iran must be willing to develop WMD’s.

    As Nuclear weapons are also WMD’s — Is it not logical to believe that a nation that developed one type of WMD would also be willing to develop another type.

    Does this mean that nuclear weapons could have been used in WWI but weren’t?

    Do you believe the nations that developed and used chemical weapons, such as mustard gas, would have refused to develop nuclear weapons if the technology was available in 1910?

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @Oscar Peterson
  55. @A123

    What problem are you having understanding the facts? How many times do I have to tell you the same thing?

    Iran does not have chemical weapons. Iran is a party to the CWC. (Israel refuses to sign the CWC and of course possesses nuclear weapons and also refuses to sign the NPT.)

    Even though chemical weapons are not hard to produce and employ, Iran did not do so against Iraq based on the guidance of Khomeini to his subordinates, despite repeated Iraqi chemical strikes against Iran over a period of years in the 1980s. There is no precedent for such restraint.

    Do you acknowledge the uniqueness of Iranian behavior during the Iran-Iraq War?

    Oh, and did you see in the CIA document the listing of Iraqi chemical strikes against Iran? Are you finally convinced that Iran did, in fact, use CW against Iran and not merely against the Kurds in the case of Halabja?

    Why is the truth so unpalatable for you?

  56. @A123

    — If Iran has developed Chemical WMD’s.
    — That logically means that Iran must be willing to develop WMD’s.

    And since you are so concerned about WMD, what do you think our position should be towards countries that have refused to sign the Chemical Weapons Convention and Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty? Should we cut off all aid and sanction them?

  57. A123 says:

    There is no precedent for such restraint.

    ‘Restraint’ typically implies having something and not using it. If Iran did not have chemical weapons on hand, the action would be… Not launching a multi-year effort to develop them. I guess, I see how this could be viewed as restraint.

    To me it seems more like military prioritization rather than restraint. Not starting a program that will consume defense resources and may not deliver until after the war is over.

    Even though chemical weapons are not hard to produce and employ,

    Nerve gas is not easy to weaponize. The best options are multi-part, so the nerve agent is formed by a reaction only after the munition is delivered. Using a ‘live as loaded’ compound creates all sorts of risk if the special weapons unit comes under fire.

    It is also highly desirable to have the chemical break down fairly rapidly after use (non-persistent). Persistent agents block all sides for quite some time, which is very undesirable for offensive use. For example, if an agent is broken down by UV sunlight every entry into a dark enclosed space is more time consuming. Protective gear in a hot environment leads to heat stroke, and given how clumsy it can be there are also likely to be injuries from accidents.

    There are of course simpler options such as Chlorine gas or Sulfur based mustard gas. However, these are much less effective in combat situations.

    Oh, and did you see in the CIA document the listing of Iraqi chemical strikes against Iran? Are you finally convinced that Iran did, in fact, use CW against Iran and not merely against the Kurds in the case of Halabja?

    Yes. I will concede that Saddam used chemical weapons against both Kurds in Persians in Iran.

    The report admits it is under counting, and the numbers for Iranian Kurd casualties are far too low. There were significant chemical attacks in Iranian Kurdish areas other than Halabja. I will dig for better documentation.

    PEACE 😇

    • Troll: L.K
    • Replies: @Oscar Peterson
  58. Miggle says:
    @Sally Snyder

    Sally, thanks for that link. Clearly it is suicidal that Israel won’t tolerate all of Palestine becoming one state with equal rights for all. They could achieve that in a flash by immediate annexation of all of the Occupied Territories, at the same time giving full citizenship to all Palestinian Arabs.

    It would need to be preceded by the adoption of a constitution only amendable by a large majority in a referendum. Israel has always avoided having any binding constitution requiring a referendum. Australia has a constitution that is very difficult to change, only by a referendum requiring a majority overall and a majority in every state of the federation. Some equivalent could be thought up for Palestine-Israel.

    A constitution with some equivalent difficulty of amendment would be needed to specify and cement in freedom of religion, normal in the West, but something the Palestinians would abolish (in favor of freedom of worship only) if it was up to Knesset vote or easily-amended constitution. The Palestinians themselves are as problematic as the Jews, because of the insanity of Islam which will not tolerate anything but a Muslim ruler and Sharia law, and the death penalty for anyone who moves from one religion to another. Islam will never tolerate freedom of religion.

    So real freedom of religion would need to be an element of the constitution impossible to amend without civil war. A Muslim majority might win such a civil war, but the price of war and the real possibility of loss would be a very strong deterrent. And the Muslims never won back Spain. Let them focus their Ummah eyes on that, and realize that winning a war once upon a time does not mean sacred possession for eternity. And let the Jews give up the equally insane notion of their Jewish theocracy called democracy.

    There are secondary issues, refugee return, and whether the name of the state would be Israel, which would solve themselves once sanity prevailed.

    That article you point to indicates that there is no alternative. Israel the Jewish state, itself always an insane concept, has not much time left. The USA can’t save them. Iran’s allies only have to attack and take Jewish hostages and the USA won’t be able to bomb them. It would have to morph it into its own war with Iran, but the North American monetocracy that calls itself a democracy is not going to do that. See the recent Paul Craig Roberts article telling us the USA is finished. He knows better than anyone.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  59. The Dark Night [AKA "Sagi Harari"] says:
    @Miggle

    So as I said it is always twisted.

    Your words were “Kill all the Christians you can.” Now it turnes into “It is a duty to exterminate them – Jewish infidels! – with one’s own hands.” And the Jewish infidels are not gentiles, are they? Does it refer to Christians? No.

    And I hope there’s no need to remind now about the punishment for apostates among Christians – burning at the stake? Enough to point out that it wasn’t adopted from Rambam.

    I also can’t remember when that ruling has been put into practice. Spinoza was proclaimed a heretic but wasn’t murdered, and Giordano Bruno was. And a lot more heretics in the Christendom were massacred.

    How about the St. Bartholomew’s Day?

    Jews, on the other hand, have never fought religious wars with other Jews, in spite of all that. The book Shahak was talking about is Book of the Strong Hand, which is a re-wording of the Talmud, compiled according to the topics Rambam chose. He made more than one version of it because it took a long time to write and edit. The manuscripts he sent to various diasporas were different. No one knows which one was the final edition.

    That book is popular among Sephardic Jews but is not as much respected as the Talmud. This is not a canon and is a debatable item. One great rabbi even burned it – a number of copies. Some rabbis called Rambam a fool. Look it up: Maimonidean Controversy.

    The point is that one rabbi is not a representation of all. He can be called an idiot and that’s it. And I found that quotation too. It says – I’m translating from Hebrew, “Traitors among Jews are to be pushed into the pit of destruction,” and it doesn’t say “exterminated” but let’s assume it’s implied – he is speaking about Jews!

    Here is the Christian law: “Secular authorities shall be admonished and induced and if needed compelled in good faith and to the best of their ability to exterminate all heretics pointed out by the Church.” – Twelfth Ecumenical Council: Lateran IV 1215

    I recommend you to expand your horizons and read the Hammer of Witches.

    • Troll: Miggle
    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
    , @Miggle
  60. @A123

    ‘Restraint’ typically implies having something and not using it

    No, restraint simply means not taking an action that could be taken if desired. And Iran, with a much more capable chemical industry than any of the Arab states could have developed chemical agents with ease. Nerve agents are harder to develop, but even the use of mustard gas, which Iraq used extensively, would have made a significant tactical difference had Iran employed it, since the impact on Iranian morale of Iraqi CW with no Iranian countermeasure except protective gear was quite severe over time. But Khomeini said “no” so they didn’t develop agents.

    To me it seems more like military prioritization rather than restraint.

    Since CW had a major impact on the war, it makes no sense to suggest that military prioritization would have driven the absence of Iranian retaliation–especially after years of Iraqi CW use. If military priorities had been the driving factor, Iran would have made CW agents and delivery systems a top priority and then used them to help win the war, which you now know that they didn’t do.

    And what about an answer to my other question:

    Since you are so concerned about WMD, what do you think our position should be towards countries that have refused to sign the Chemical Weapons Convention and Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty? Should we cut off all aid and sanction them?

  61. @The Dark Night

    Good job Sagi. Miggle is a particularly onerous Da Vinci code pre Vatican 2 radical catholic.
    They are liars and thieves of Jews documents and texts.
    They ascribe crimes to the Jews thru misquotes and out of context portions of the Talmud and other parts of the Tanakh in the hopes of fomenting violence towards Jews and Judaism.

    [MORE]

    The Rambam’s Words
    These are Maimonides” words, written in his Laws of Kings (11,4):
    “Even Jesus the Christian, who thought he was the Messiah… was the subject of a prophesy in the Book of Daniel (11, 14): “…also the renegades of your people will exalt themselves to fulfill the vision – but they will stumble.” Could there be a greater stumbling block than this [Jesus]? For all the prophets spoke of the Messiah who will redeem and save Israel, who will ingather all its exiles, and who will strengthen them in the fulfillment of the Torah”s commandments – while he [Jesus] caused Israel to be killed by the sword, their remnants to be dispersed and humiliated, the Torah to be switched for something else, and most of the world to worship a G-d other than the G-d of Israel! But – the thoughts of G-d cannot be fathomed by human minds. For our ways are not like His, and our thoughts are not like His. All these activities of Jesus the Christian, and the Ishmaelite who came after him, are all for the purpose of paving the way for the true King Messiah, and preparing the entire world to worship G-d together, as is written (Tzefaniah 3,9): “For then I will convert the nations to a pure language, that they may all call in the name of G-d and serve Him together.”
    “How will this work? For by then, the world will already be filled with the idea of Messiah, and Torah, and commandments, even in far-off islands and in closed-hearted nations, where they engage in discussions on the Torah”s commandments: some say that the Torah”s commandments are true but are no longer binding in these times, while others say that there are hidden, deep meanings to them, and that the Messiah has come and revealed their hidden secrets. But when the true King Messiah arrives, and will succeed and will raise them up, all the peoples will immediately realize that they had been taught lies by their forefathers, and that their ancestors and prophets had misled them.”
    Preparing the Way
    From these words of the Rambam, we learn that even though Christianity negates the Torah, and promotes a different redemption and a different redeemer – even so, the very discussion of these issues arouses thoughts and anticipation throughout the world of great events. And even though these are misdirected, the hearts are still ready and waiting. When the Messiah, King of Israel, reveals himself, everyone will immediately recognize him, and will realize that “Moshe is true, and his Torah is true.”
    Similarly, this is how we must view the upcoming visit of the Pope in Israel, and its accompanying disquiet. At first glance, we ask ourselves, who needs this visit? What does it help us? It seems to only do damage and cause confusion! But this is only at first glance. In deeper truth, this is just another step in the preparation of the Jewish people”s complete redemption, which will lead to the redemption of the entire world and their understanding that “The L-rd, our G-d, is One, and His Name is One.”

    • Replies: @The Dark Night
    , @Miggle
  62. @Miggle

    So real freedom of religion would need to be an element of the constitution impossible to amend without civil war. A Muslim majority might win such a civil war, but the price of war and the real possibility of loss would be a very strong deterrent. And the Muslims never won back Spain. Let them focus their Ummah eyes on that, and realize that winning a war once upon a time does not mean sacred possession for eternity. And let the Jews give up the equally insane notion of their Jewish theocracy called democracy.

    Nothing like avoiding the obvious. There are 32 Muslim only countries in Arabia. Other religions and human rights forbidden under Shira.
    There is one Jewish only state. I repeat Jewish only call it a theocracy not democracy, I do not care. All the other countries over there are theocracies. Everyone wants Israel to live by different rules as a game to loose. Jihadist are interested in Israel being a democracy. Maybe someone will vote them in like Hamas in Gaza Lol. Make Jordan the Palestinian state for Palestinians who were invented in 1967.
    Let all of the 3 generations of illegal refugees go to Joran. Refugees are defined by one generation. The second and third generations no longer have refugee status. They are to become citizens of the countries they live in.

    It is all about destroying the Jews by any means necessary, for all Jew haters with different agendas. If the Jews had lost at any point along the way we would not be having this conversation. There would be no more Jews period in the middle east.
    Perhaps Israel will not survive the next war. We must wait and see.
    Wishing them gone is not good enough. They will have to face causualties a lot of them, which they do not want to do. We will see.

    • Replies: @Miggle
    , @anon
    , @anon
    , @anon
  63. The Dark Night [AKA "Sagi Harari"] says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Fran, in general I am not a supporter of pre-Hasidic Judaism. And Rambam is in particular boring to me. Just when I see these liars I feel like I have to do something. Like this is some kind of sickness. These people, it seems some of them are insane. None of them listens. None of them knows what he’s talking about, and none can stop talking. Something pathological.

    And all of them seem sure that this is the right thing to do.

    Speaking of Rambam I think he was a materialist. I cannot agree with his opinions conserning Jesus too. I think that Paul messed it up, and that Jesus was a Hasid and he was I think a Nazarite, and that he was with the Essenes. I think his intentions were good. His teaching is wise, beautiful and the book of Revelation is a piece of art. Just something went wrong.

    And he did sacrifice himself. Didn’t he?

    How could he be the reason of what the Romans did later? How does Rambam come to such a conclusion? He was, I mean Rambam, a prolific figure but insignificant in the end. His views look barbaric to me. Don’t like him.

    Also I think messianic ideas bring nothing but trouble. Jesus was fine, but Jacob Frank was a complete maniac. And no one knows who is going to be the next and what kind of “redemption” he’ll be up to. Looking around now I feel rather pessimistic on this account. The world is going bananas and I am afraid to imagine that new hero who is going to come next.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  64. Miggle says:
    @The Dark Night

    Your words were “Kill all the Christians you can.” Now it turnes into “It is a duty to exterminate them – Jewish infidels! – with one’s own hands.” And the Jewish infidels are not gentiles, are they? Does it refer to Christians? No.

    Selective quoting to deceive is outright lying. The words of I quoted included (this time I add emphasis):

    … the command to exterminate Jewish infidels appears in it in full: active measures to destroy them.’ But then the Hebrew text goes on to specify the prime examples of ‘infidels’ who must be exterminated: ‘Such as Jesus of Nazareth and his pupils, and Tzadoq and Baitos and their pupils, may the name of the wicked rot’.

    Maimonides lived in the 12th Century. He refers to the Christians of that era when writing “Jesus of Nazareth and his pupils”. That he refers to the Christians as Jewish infidels adds nothing. One could justifiably say the Christians of today are the genuine Jews. It is you Rabbinates that many including Benjamin Freedman have called fake Jews. Already, in about AD 20, Jesus had denounced the “tradition” of the Pharisees as fake. (Read The Gospel According To Matthew.) Then around AD 200 (not 700) the Mishnah was written down, consisting of the “tradition” claimed to have been passed solely by word of mouth for a thousand years. Obviously fake, new invention. Claiming “oral” tradition gave them freedom to write anything they wanted. Who are the infidels here?

    That book is popular among Sephardic Jews

    The Sephardic Jews were virtually the only Jews of Maimonides’ era. East-European Jews had not yet appeared, not yet emerged out of the Khazar kingdom. At least one historian has called the earliest Rhineland Jews Sephardic.

    Here is the Christian law: “Secular authorities shall be admonished and induced and if needed compelled in good faith and to the best of their ability to exterminate all heretics pointed out by the Church.” – Twelfth Ecumenical Council: Lateran IV 1215

    That is not Christian law. It is the law of a sect that had separated from the Orthodox Church in AD 1054. And those words are the mark of absolute power, which corrupts absolutely. Pretending that it is Ecumenical, yet held in Rome in 1215, is bogus, the pretense of one sect that calls itself exclusively the Universal Church. (Catholic means universal, the whole. Protestants recite the Apostles’ Creed including the words “I believe in the holy catholic church” but do not by that mean the Roman Pope’s church.) Who are the heretics here?

  65. @Miggle

    When was the last time a Jew was put on trial for killing a Christian!!! like ever.
    Get a life this is propaganda BS.
    Jews do not kill Christian for being Christian.

  66. @The Dark Night

    Fran, in general I am not a supporter of pre-Hasidic Judaism. And Rambam is in particular boring to me. Just when I see these liars I feel like I have to do something. Like this is some kind of sickness. These people, it seems some of them are insane. None of them listens. None of them knows what he’s talking about, and none can stop talking. Something pathological.

    Yes racism is a pathological sickness based on overwhelming fear and anxiety that people feel in the world as it is now which is some what chaotic. they feel out of control. Focusing on one group or ethnicity to blame, relieves ones anxiety and releases endorphins, which makes them feel relieved and artificially calm. It is the “If only” If only we can get the Jews the chaos will end. The Jews cause all the chaos. Never mind the proven extinction of like the Yazidis by Jihadist. It is the Jews that want to kill Christians.

    Racist thru microscopes to find obscure writings a scholar like Maimonides to find a quote to back up their feelings about the Jews.
    Meanwhile when did Jews seek out Christians for killing for religious reasons?

    Racism is fundamentally irrational, like Miggle and others on this site.

    • Replies: @The Dark Night
  67. Miggle says:
    @Fran Taubman

    You are lying or deluded, Fran. The Jews have always been treated well by the Muslims, even though ruled by Sharia law. The Jews who have been living peacefully in Iran for well over 2000 years don’t want to leave. The Jews of the Arab lands fled post-1948 only because of Zionist atrocities in those countries that aimed for exactly that.

    Other religions and human rights forbidden under Shira.

    I partly agree on that point. I said that under Sharia law there is freedom of worship for the adherents of a several religions including Judaism, but there is not freedom of religion, and no non-Muslim can hold office, which, yes, is a restriction of human rights. But:

    The Jews were treated exceptionally well in Spain under Islamic rule, some, such as the Villa Reals, the Medinas, the Laras, even promoted to the aristocracy, the nobility.

    And the Jews lived well under Muslim rule in the Ottoman Empire.

    I would only add to what I wrote on the 1SS that something like Ottoman-era millets could be part of of it, which perhaps is going a little bi-national.

    But still, the fantasy of a Jewish state, Europeans settled on the stolen lands of the indigenous Semites, will soon end. The European Jews, the Mileikowskis, the Taubmans and all the rest, won’t be driven out, will be treated well, though many will choose to leave.

    So if you can think of a better solution, tell me.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  68. Miggle says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Fran, read Foxe’s Book of Martyrs.

  69. The Dark Night [AKA "Sagi Harari"] says:
    @Miggle

    Jesus of Nazareth and his pupils were Jewish heretics, don’t you understand this? Rambam was talking about Jews. And in the 1200’s when he lived Jewish diasporas in France and Germany had already been established. Khazarian Jews never lived in Europe.

    Jesus had denounced the tradition of the Pharisees at about 30 CE. You are ignorant, son. At that time there were three branches of Judaism: the old school, Sadducees; the new school, Pharisees and the Essenes to which Jesus belonged.

    Now the Sadducees are called Karaites, the Pharisees are called Orthodox and the Essenes are gone, but Hasidic Jews resemble them.

    And like I said read the Hammer of Witches.

  70. The Dark Night [AKA "Sagi Harari"] says:
    @Fran Taubman

    I agree for the most part.

    This psychological process is called projection. Though it is inherent to all people in some degree, here we see it in a pathological form. I don’t think it makes anybody calm, I find the opposite is true.

  71. Miggle says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Jews do not kill Christian for being Christian.

    You may be right. Apart from the Blood Libels, Jews killing Christian babies, which were not libel, I know of no post-Biblical killings of Christians by Jews. But:

    Christianity starts with the Jews killing Christians, first Christ, then Stephen; and the pre-conversion Paul apparently killed many.

    The Pharisaic Jews and the Sadducees killed what they called infidels, claimed to be infidels. Not by burning at the stake, but by flogging to death. They started flogging Paul to death but were stopped by the Roman army. They flogged the Karaites of Spain to death. (I mean Iberia, talking about ancient Spain, disregarding the modern parts such as Portugal.) Of course, many, maybe most Karaites fled from Spain, but those caught were flogged to death.

    Then there is the much earlier, sudden disappearance of the Hellenistic Jews, whose numbers were enormous, stretching from the Atlantic coast of Iberia to the Indus Valley, the legacy of Alexander the Great plus aggressive proselytizing by the Jews.

    They had been there for centuries, the Hellenistic Jews, since about 350 BC, so were not Talmudic, because the Talmud was written round about AD 200-500. But when around AD 200 the Roman Empire gave the rabbis total power over all the Empire’s Jews, a kind of Ezra/Nehemiah arrangement, the Jewish Dark Age immediately followed, lasting several centuries, and during it the Hellenistic Jews disappeared.

    So they were infidels, the late classical Jews, the Greek-speaking ones who used the Septuagint, right? Justly exterminated, right?

    There might very easily have been six million Jews killed by Jews. That may be where that number, which had been used with reference to Jews many times before the Nazi era, comes from. That may be why, according to Shahak, the rabbis have always hated Jewish history.

    That part, that catastrophe is recorded by a famous academic historian Hans Lietzmann, born in Germany in 1875, died in Switzerland in 1942. The book is (translated by Bertram Lee Woolf) A History of the Early Church, but exploring Christianity’s origins necessarily involves looking at the Jews of the era. He does not express any hostility towards them. If anything, the reverse.

    Despite the Jewish Dark Age there are archeological traces. Lietzmann deals at the beginning of his chapter “The Jewish Diaspora,” with a terrible event. To quote a tiny part of what could be a much longer quotation in which be begins with the enormous numbers of Hellenistic Jews, quoting the :Hebrew Sibyl of the Maccabean era, and quoting Josephus quoting Strabo of Cappadocia, Lietzmann continues:

    If, however, we look more closely, we see indications of a most terrible catastrophe. The entire rich culture of Hellenistic Judaism, which had been carried by many millions through the whole post-classical ancient world and far beyond the eastern border of Mesopotamia, had been systematically annihilated, with terrible consequences. Talmudic Jewry had destroyed its Greek-speaking sister, pulled down her buildings, and ploughed up her sites. What records we possess are due to excavations, or to accidental finds, e.g. the shattered remains of synagogues and burial places with a few inscriptions, and occasional scraps […]

  72. @Fran Taubman

    When was the last time a Jew was put on trial for killing a Christian!!! like ever.

    So true.
    Not only are Jews never held to account for their complicity in the mass-killing of Christians, Jews heap acclaim on them.

    Eric(h) Mendelsohn, “the Jewish architect,” for example:
    According to the U.S. Department of Interior Historical American Engineering Record (HAER) UT-92-A,
    GERMAN-JAPANESE VILLAGE, GERMAN VILLAGE
    http://lcweb2.loc.gov/master/pnp/habshaer/ut/ut0500/ut0568/data/ut0568data.pdf

    “A group of German-American architects affiliated with the “Gropius group at Harvard,” including prominent Jewish architects Eric Mendelsohn and Konrad Wachsmann, were employed to design the facility [German Village].”

    “The Dugway German Village was the primary American site for testing incendiary bombs prior to large- scale attacks near the end of World War II against civilian targets such as Dresden, Germany. “

    How specific was the planning to kill civilians in Germany?

    “In the bedroom, the single beds were placed together in pairs, with a crib adjacent, reflective of a young family with an infant.”

    Were the plans shelved or implemented?

    The AN-M50 model of incendiary bomb, extensively tested at the German Village, accounted for more than 97 percent (by number) of the incendiary bombs dropped on Germany by American forces.

    Was firebombing civilians considered a war crime?

    According to British ethicist A. C. Grayling, Yes.

    Does the fact of the construction of German Village to perfect and rehearse firebombing civilians fit the definition of “planning,” as is alleged but never demonstrated with respect to an alleged holocaust of Jews?

    Obviously, Yes. U. S. allied forces planned to carry out crimes against humanity — deliberately killing mass numbers of civilians — and indeed carried out those plans.

    Were the parties who participated in that planning called to account for their involvement in genocidal acts, as were even the most remotely associated German soldiers, leaders, even newspaper publishers?

    No.

    What is the stature of Eric Mendelsohn among the American Jewish community?

    He’s considered an exemplar:

    Designed by architect Erich Mendelsohn as the B’nai Amoona Synagogue, COCA’s strikingly innovative mid-century building, completed in 1950, was the first modernist approach to synagogue architecture in the United States and was the storied architect’s first American building. It is on the National Register of Historic Places and has been COCA’s home since 1977.

    The visionary Mendelsohn, a contemporary of Walter Gropius and Mies vander Rohe, produced works that have influenced generations of architects.

    Today, many Americans are aware of the bombing of Dresden. But even this atrocity was not widely known: introductory material to David Irving’s Apocalypse 1945: The Destruction of Dresden, states:

    “until the author’s first book on it appeared in 1963 the raid on Dresden scarcely figured in any official indices of the war.”

    ,

    and in Slaughterhouse Five, The Children’s Crusade, Kurt Vonnegut wrote,

    “Even then [~1967] I was supposedly writing a book about Dresden. It wasn’t a famous air raid back then in America. Not many Americans knew how much worse it had been than Hiroshima, for instance. I didn’t know that, either. There hadn’t been much publicity.
    I happened to tell a University of Chicago professor at a cocktail party about the raid as I had seen it, about the book I would write. He was a member of a thing called The Committee on Social Thought. And he told me about the concentration camps, and about how the Germans had made soap and candles out of the fat of dead Jews and so on. . . .
    I wrote the Air Force back then, asking for details about the raid on Dresden, who ordered it, how many planes did it, why they did it, what desirable results there had been
    and so on. I was answered by a man who, like myself, was in public relations. He said that he was sorry, but that the information was top secret still.
    I read the letter out loud to my wife, and I said, ‘Secret? My God-from whom?’ “

    Yet Jörg Friedrich records that at least 131 German cities — 70% of Germany’s built environment — was reduced to rubble by Allied firebombing.

    How many Americans know that?

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  73. @SolontoCroesus

    You are hilarious. Sounds like a good horror movie. Did you check dicks to see who was circumcised to know who was the “real Jews” names only.
    Did the Jew Mendelshon drop the bombs? or design the bombs. I am so confused.

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  74. @Miggle

    You are pretty ignorant on Jews in the ME.
    About 70% of all Jews in Israel are Mizrahi Jews. Jews from arab countries where they lived for centuries, most did not come from Europe.

    And the Jews lived well under Muslim rule in the Ottoman Empire.

    That depends on how you define”well”

    Do you know any Jewish folks who are decedents of Jews that lived during that time?
    They were Dhimni second class citizens and they had to pay a tax.
    I know about 10 families, from Iraq, Yemen and Libya where Jews were thrown out with nothing but their clothes, after living there for centuries. What about those refugees?

    The Jews who have been living peacefully in Iran for well over 2000 years don’t want to leave

    .

    The Jews living in Iran led very restricted lives, and most fled, there is a tiny tiny population left.
    The Iranian Jews that I know were forced to leave after all the restrictions placed on their movements.

    If you want to know what life was like for Jews living in Arab Muslim lands read my friend Lucette Lagnado. Her family lived in Syria then Egypt for hundreds of years. After Nasser came to power with his Pan Arabism fantasy he kicked out all the Jews, her family was penniless living in Paris, Jewish agencies in the US allowed them to immigrate and tried to help. Her father ended up selling ties in the subway. Those are real immigrants, not colonels. Refugees go both ways.

    Most of the people on this site hold an irrational hatred of Jews, and have no rhyme or reason nothing Jews did to them personally. It is in the universal cloud for them. Just look at comment #74. A consulting architect was Jewish in a building that housed pre bombing raids, and presto the Jews killed Christians.
    Meanwhile the Standard Oil Company was behind the project, not a Jew in site. The Jewish person involved was the consulting architect.
    It is just difficult to counter craziness nothing to do with reason and facts,

    Below book review of Lucette’s book she passed away over the summer.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/10/books/10book.html

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  75. @A123

    How come druid55, is lying?

    My dear sayan, you the jews, have invented THE LIES.

    This is why the rest of the world call you “perfidious Jews”

    Now come with me and sing together:
    All vows, renunciations, promises, obligations, oaths, taken from this Day of Atonement till the next, may we attain it in peace, we regret them in advance. May we be absolved of them, may we be released from them, may they be null and void and of no effect. May they not be binding upon us. Such vows shall not be considered vows; such renunciations, no renunciations; and such oaths, no oaths.

    • Replies: @Kalliopi S.
  76. @Fran Taubman

    The Iranian Jews that I know were forced to leave after all the restrictions placed on their movements.

    Mind if I borrow this:

    You are hilarious.

    Jews were “forced to leave” Iran if you call “force” their numerous chartered plane-loads of rugs, furnishings, textiles, jewels, even exotic animals. Iranian Jews plundered anything that wasn’t nailed down, then Israeli defense contractors swindled Iranians out of more of their wealth.

  77. Miggle says:
    @Fran Taubman

    When was the last time a Jew was put on trial for killing a Christian!!! like ever.
    Get a life this is propaganda BS.
    Jews do not kill Christian for being Christian.

    My first reply was a little off-the-cuff and a little careless, Fran, the Blood so-called Libels about the Jews killing many, many Christian babies, and the Talmudist Jews killing millions of Jews because they were not ruled by Talmudist rabbis.

    That doesn’t meet your “put on trial” condition, does it?

    I had forgotten Leo Frank, put on trial for raping and murdering a 13-year-old Christian girl, Mary Phagan, in 1913.

    But look at the furious, aggressive, organized counter-attack by the Jews when that happened, well pre-Hitler, sentenced to hang in 1915, but a furious Jewish counter-attack eventually getting Leo Frank’s sentence commuted. So the ADL, created for that, should be called the Leo Frank League.

    Because the Jews demand special privileges. Not to give them special privileges is anti-Semitic, right? The ultimate lynching of Leo Frank for raping and killing the Christian girl was anti-Semitic, right? So there is organized Jewish aggression, a Jewish Onslaught, a massive counter-attack, if a Jew is put on trial for killing a Christian.

    Which means your demand for an example is … (I’d better not finish that sentence.)

    The Jewish Onslaught: Despatches from the Wellesley Battlefront is the title of a book by Professor Tony Martin of Wellesley College, Massachusetts. He gave an innocuous lecture, referred to an innocuous book, but one that mentioned Jews, based strictly on Jewish sources, mentioning the place of Jews in the American slave trade. But Jews demand special privileges, and there was a fifth column within the class, “three student officers of the Jewish Hillel organization (campus B’nai B’rith stablemates of the Anti-Defamation League), sat in on my class and remained for a single period only.” There followed a highly-organized campaign by Jewish organizations to get him fired, destroy his career, destroy his life. For what? A good example of Jewish hatred of Christians, and their demands for privilege from those they hate.

    And a good lesson in how we should understand the Leo Frank case, allegations of witness tampering etc.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
    , @Insouciant
  78. @Miggle

    Try and be original. This stuff (you write) is old hat. Leo Frank. P-L-E-A-S-E.
    Tony Matin. The hack of hacks, has been so discredited, laughable. The Jews did not get him out.
    Wellesley college would have to close its doors to keep him. Not the first professor to be thrown out for racist bs. You could not speak about blacks like that.
    And the slave trade by the infamous raiders of the lost ark lol, I mean NOI.
    This shit is laughable.
    The cabal of Jewish crimes is old and old. Rehashed by conspiracy nut jobs for a long long time.
    Poor Gilad to be stuck with these suckers. You forgot the SS Liberty. Or is that too pedestrian.
    Oh yes Miggle, I drank some Christian blood last night ( a child’s of course).
    Oh wait it is not passover yet time to make matzah, my bad.

    • Replies: @Anne Lid
    , @Insouciant
  79. Anne Lid says:
    @Fran Taubman

    What a thoroughly unlikable person you are. Miggle has patiently answered you. No one said that you personally harmed any Christian, but you deny the very real possibility, that given freedom from consequences, some Jews would seriously harm us. It’s not even a possibility, it is a certainty.

    • Agree: Miggle
  80. @Fran Taubman

    Tehrangeles

    Wikipedia:

    Iranian Jews
    As of 2008 the Los Angeles area had the largest Persian Jewish population in the U.S. , at 50,000. In particular, Persian Jews make up a sizeable proportion of the population of Beverly Hills, California.

    Iran’s revenge on the USA

  81. @Miggle

    Ben-Gurion’s Scandals: How the Haganah and the Mossad Eliminated Jews
    https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1149242.Ben_Gurion_s_Scandals

    by
    Naeim Giladi

    ” Painful truths about the Zionist rape of Palestine and deliberate planting of anti-Semitism in Iraqi Jewish communities during David Ben-Gurion’s political career to persuade Iraqi Jews to immigrate to Israel. The Zionists’ goal was to import raw Jewish labor from the Middle East to farm the newly-vacated lands and fill the military ranks with conscripts, to defend the stolen lands.”

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
    , @renfro
  82. @Insouciant

    Alternatively, historian Moshe Gat argues that there was little direct connection between the bombings and the exodus of Jewish refugees. Gat questions the guilt of the alleged Jewish bombthrowers who were found guilty in an Iraqi court of having perpetrated one of the bombings. He cites a rumour that a Christian Iraqi army officer “known for his anti-Jewish views”, was initially arrested for the crime, but was evidently not charged despite the large number of explosive materials matching those used in an earlier synagogue bombing that were allegedly found in his home. He further cites a long history of anti-Jewish bomb-throwing incidents in Iraq.[5]

    Stop!!! looking for excuses you hate Jews. That is all you need to say. There is no rational.
    You can find a book a person anything to back up your hate. But the fact of the matter is as a Jew raised in a religious zionist house, and know many many other Zionist. You are lying.
    We are not murders or colonials and we do not murder people indiscriminately.
    I grew up not hating anyone. Those are the facts.

    • Replies: @renfro
    , @Adrian
  83. renfro says:
    @Insouciant

    To add to…

    “In a confidential telegram sent on November 2, 1949, the British ambassador to Washington explained … the general view of officials in the State Department is that the [Zionist] agitation has been deliberately worked up for two reasons: (a) To assist fund-raising in the United States (b) To create favourable sentiments in the United Nations Assembly to offset the bad impression caused by the Jewish attitudes to Arab refugees. They suggest that the Israeli Government is fully aware of the Iraqi Jews, but is prepared to be callous towards the community, the bulk of which, as Dr Elath admitted, has no wish to transfer its allegiance to Israel.”

    Shiblak, Abbas (1986). The lure of Zion : the case of the Iraqi Jews.

    The British knew Israel was ginning up terror among Jews in Iraq to get them to go to Israel
    But there was even more to the plan than that….the Israelis thru the Britsh were trying to get a deal in which all Palestines refugees were sent to Iraq and Iraq Jews sent to Israel….a population exchange. The British were so sick of the Jews they were willing to do almost anything so they could wash their hands of Israel….but the “population exchange’ failed.

  84. renfro says:
    @Fran Taubman

    I grew up not hating anyone.

    You are the biggest hater on this site.

    All anyone has to do to verify that is look at your commemts about Muslims, about how you would like some of us here shot and killed at the Palestine Israel fence., etcetc.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  85. @renfro

    only you at the fence only you.

  86. Ms. Taubman, I have read ALL the comments in this thread – some with interest, some with fascination, some with appreciation, some with anger and some with disgust…

    But it is your comments that struck me hardest – in the sense that in your strident, stubborn and unreasonable defense of the indefensible criminal acts of your self-chosen’s tribal assault on the white Christian European societies through the centuries AND your brain dead defense of the terrorist and racist israeli state you have managed to convince me of three things.

    1) You are a smoothly polished serial liar. That has to take a lot of practice.

    2) You have no moral center. None whatsoever. You don’t appear to even know what ‘moral’ is.

    3) You are seriously mentally ill.

    Because only the seriously mentally ill could hold the opinions and positions you hold in the face of mountains of evidence of your tribe’s collective duplicity and responsibility for some of the worst mass murders on our planet.

    You disappoint me. I’ve always been told that your tribe were the brightest, if not the best. I can’t see how people can continue to believe that BS when they have your comments and opinions to judge you and those you defend by.

    Your whole output here on this thread has reminded me of a passage from Mein Kampf,

    “The more I argued with them, the more I came to know their dialectic. First they counted on the stupidity of their adversary, and then, when there was no other way out, they themselves simply played stupid. If all this didn’t help they pretended not to understand, or, if challenged, they changed the subject in a hurry, quoted platitudes, which if you accepted them, they immediately related to entirely different matters, and then, if again attacked, gave ground and pretended not to know what you were talking about.

    Whenever you tried to attack one of these apostles, your hand closed on a jelly-like slime which divided up and poured through your fingers, but in the next moment collected again. But if you really struck one of these fellows so telling a blow that, observed by the audience, he couldn’t help but agree, and if you believed this had taken you at least one step forward, your amazement was great the next day. The Jew had not the slightest recollection of the day before, he rattled off his same old nonsense as though nothing at all had happened, and, if indignantly challenged, affected amazement; he couldn’t remember a thing, except that he had proved the correctness of his assertions the previous day.

    Sometimes I stood there thunderstruck.

    I didn’t know what to be more amazed at: the agility of their tongues or their virtuosity at lying. Gradually I began to hate them.”

    Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Ch 3.

    You’re just the latest version of that “jelly-like slime” experienced by AH, aren’t you? Almost liquid excrement passing for thought…

  87. @Fran Taubman

    Just look at comment #74. A consulting architect was Jewish in a building that housed pre bombing raids, and presto the Jews killed Christians.
    Meanwhile the Standard Oil Company was behind the project, not a Jew in site. The Jewish person involved was the consulting architect.
    It is just difficult to counter craziness nothing to do with reason and facts,

    You said you are “so confused.”
    My original post did not mention Standard Oil, you did some background checking & discovered it. btw, not just one Jewish architect, several. And the Hollywood studio set designers were Jewish — the ones responsible for setting infant’s cribs in the apartments.

    Jules Streicher published newspapers that said insulting things about Jews.
    That was enough to get him hanged.

    Erich Mendelsohn materially aided in what even an ethicist whose loyalty is to the Allies called “immoral” and “war crimes”. Curtis LeMay also participated in planning firebombing campaigns; he said, “”I suppose if I had lost the war, I would have been tried as a war criminal.”

    For over 60 years Jews have been asserting that Germany “planned” the systematic, industrialized, mass killing of ‘every single Jewish man, woman and child,” but no such plan has even been discovered or offered as evidence.

    On the other hand, indisputable evidence reveals that Jews were directly involved in the planning of systematic killing of German civilians, on a mass scale, by means and for reasons that were known beforehand to be immoral and criminal.

    Mendelsohn has been fêted numerous times by the Jewish community, including the film biography, Incessant Visions, by Duki Dror. GALO magazine published an extensive article
    http://www.galomagazine.com/movies-tv/talking-with-the-past-architect-erich-mendelsohn-on-screen/2/#.Xawrby2ZO1s
    about Mendelsohn, Dror, and the film in advance of its screening at JCC in Manhattan, including this observation:

    One of the most compelling sidebars in Mendelsohn’s life (and in the film) involves a village he helped construct in the Nevada desert. The U.S. had entered World War II, but there were troubles. Allied bombs, dropped onto the rooftops of enemy cities, were failing to have the intended devastating effect; since Germany’s top-level topography was different than what America had reckoned.
    The government enlisted Mendelsohn’s aid (or rather, Mendelsohn volunteered) in designing a mock German village for purposes of target practice. Mendelsohn, the architect who in many ways built modern Berlin, was now helping to destroy it; there are unpursued parallels here between Einstein and the Manhattan Project.

    The German Village period might be the pinnacle of the Mendelsohnian tragedy, but Dror leaves it up to us to decide. With minimal editorial framing, we are stuck weighing the horrors of Allied firebombing against the evils of Axis aggression. We yearn for a third choice, and wonder if such a thing is possible.

    There is, of course, a ‘third choice,’ rather, two ‘third choices:’ the Jewish third choice is to deny/ignore/evade accountability for participation in one of the most devastating crimes of the modern era — the “Mendelsohnian tragedy.”

    The other third choice would be honesty and the just condemnation that Curtis LeMay recognized was avoided by the Allies.

    —–
    In multiple ways, Fran Taubman, you have provided evidence to support Stephan Williams’ comment and Adolf Hitler’s observation. You fit the behavior pattern to the jot and tittle.

  88. @Stephan Williams

    Oh wow sounds like I am an alien from space with all that slime!!
    Jew hater supreme. Glad you came clean with Mein Kampf you know the chapters by heart!!
    And I am mentally ill.
    Try and quote those chapters around town, and see where that gets you. What a lonely life you must lead to see me as immoral.
    Sad for you.

  89. @SolontoCroesus

    And you match the Jew hater of Adolph Hitler exactly. Looking looking looking for a thread a seed to weave a web to blame the Jews for your own insanity and failures. I am here living where is Heir Hitler? What a coward, killed himself in his bunker letting 13 year old boys to defend the fatherland. The poor starving Germans defending Berlin. He could have surrendered honorable and saved Dresden and Berlin.
    I welcome your comparison of me in Mein Kampf. Look at you and Stephan Williams, I am the Jew in Mein Kampf. That is your story your hero. I am confused? Are you an American? My father mapped out Germany for the Allied invasion. I am happy about all those bombs.

    What fools.
    Go for that

    “Mendelsohnian tragedy.”

    For over 60 years Jews have been asserting that Germany “planned” the systematic, industrialized, mass killing of ‘every single Jewish man, woman and child,” but no such plan has even been discovered or offered as evidence

    WTF is your point. We were at war. Think of the 20 million Russians that died, and you are worried about Mendelshon.?

    Go Einstein!!!
    Sounds like you are sorry you lost the war. I am not.

  90. @SolontoCroesus

    Let me very clear to you and the clown Williams. I am glad we won the war.
    The bombings of German civilians and the bombing of Japan were the results of the relentless desire to go all or nothing of the German and Japanese leaders, WITH LITTLE REGARD TO THEIR POPULATIONS.
    Both Germany and Japan could have surrendered and saved their populations. So callous and irrational the German generals begged Hitler to turn around on the Russian front before winter set in. Hitler forced his generals to stay put and maintain their positions at all cost. The cost was beyond what any of the generals could bare, starvation of their troops, brutal freezing death. Generals turned around in defiance of Hitler.
    You want to blame the loss of precious German life at the Allie bombing of German cities. Look at what Hitler did to his country, population, and cities. He humiliated his country for no reason other than his insanity which in the end was so antithetical to surviving that it is the very definition of insanity. Hitler was begged on several occasions including the battle of the bulge to become defense. stop offensive strategy and live to fight another day. He could have stopped and had Europe and not Russia.
    Why did he persist? What was his point?
    If destroying the populations of German cities however horrible and ill conceived. It paled in comparison to what the Third Reich inflicted upon the German population.
    A suicide mission for the leaders where the people had no vote.
    I am proud of the Allies, my father served in Europe during the war. I am proud to be an American Jew and grateful Hitler and his ideology failed.
    The German and Japanese populations were pawns of their leaders. I am glad we won and they went down.
    While the bombing of populations is awful, it was a complicated story. Russia invading Gemany wanted blood for the 20 million Russians that were killed.

    You want to know what side I am on? The allies, way more than what happened to the Jews. Look what happened to the European cities and populations.
    You love Hitler, I make no apologies to you regarding moral superiority.
    Keep your Nazi uniform in moth balls. Not coming out any time soon. Enjoy your Neo Nazi movies and read Mien Kampf least twice a year. Avoid normal people at all cost.

    • Replies: @flashlight joe
  91. Anon[183] • Disclaimer says:

    Israel has many atom bombs. Plus, Israel is the USA’s driver, so all the weaponry in possession of the USA, well, it’s available to Israel too.

    In fact and for the two reasons above, it is one of the few world superpowers.

    • Replies: @Kiel
  92. Alfred says:
    @alexander

    This security is best underwritten by how well Israel chooses to resolve its conflict with the Palestinian people

    It is way too late for that.

    Anyway, the Jews in Israel really do believe that they are superior to their non-Jewish neighbors in every way. This is what they get taught at Kindergarten. These lies continue all the time and at all levels. It cannot be undone. It can only end when these people get sent back to Europe.

    It would be amazing if the Europeans stop immigration by Africans and Muslims in order to accommodate the Jews on boats. Just imagine the rumpus that would unleash!

  93. Alfred says:
    @The Dark Night

    The Torah is a book of lies. There was no Exodus from Egypt. Where is the archeological evidence?

    However, there is plenty of evidence that the real Jews were in Yemen and western Saudi Arabia – Hejaz. The Saudis have done their very best to destroy much of the evidence for obvious reasons. But place names and geography tie up neatly with the story in the Old Testament.

    In any case, at that time, “Palestine” had been abandoned by the Egyptians who colonized it earlier on. They abandoned it because it had turned to desert according to geologists – hardly a land of milk and honey. On the other hand, Yemen was enjoying a prosperous agriculture with plenty of rain and advanced irrigation systems. Believe it or not, climate change is a cyclical thing and it largely depends on the sun’s behavious and our planet’s position relative to it.

    The Arab tribes (Jewish and non Jewish) of Yemen upset the “Iraqis” and their king brought them back to Mesapotania. They had raided his caravans between Yemen and Petra. Later, the Persians released all the Arabs and some of them went to Palestine and some returned to Yemen.

    Please stop repeating obvious lies. To me, it reads a bit like all those articles that start off by quoting 9/11 as a piece of Arab terrorism

    Egyptians Brewed Beer in Tel Aviv 5,000 Years Ago

    I am rather amazed that the Israelis did not destroy the evidence of that brewery. I mean, they did plant the “discovery” of the fake “Dead Sea Scrolls” (which they allow no one to examine scientifically) just before grabbing Palestine.

    Dead Sea Scrolls (Jewpedia)

  94. @mr meener

    @mr meaner,

    Can you specify where he said that? Not challenging you but just want the source.

  95. @Fran Taubman

    “The lady doth protest too much, methinks”. – Hamlet

    Do I sense some classical conditioning at work here?

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  96. @flashlight joe

    No just slamming neo nazis who think Mein Kampf is cool reading and interesting to quote about the Jews
    They lost we won.
    It comes down to winners and losers.

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  97. I find it remarkable that most US politicians now have to do their Israel support on the sly. Congress wouldn’t dare vote to authorize a Syria deployment for the real reasons because these puppets are afraid of their own voters. Even Trump feels the need to appease the festering anger of he goyish electorate at the years of war for this parasitic and noxious state. Somehow the word must have gotten to them.

  98. @Fran Taubman

    Fran Taubman, daughter of Gershon Taubman who, Fran claims, participated materially in the firebombing of Germans in World War II, a war crime and crime against humanity.

    In the kangaroo court that Rabbi Stephen Wise was delighted to pre-arrange with Judge Robert Jackson (Wise volunteered to be a witness on behalf of Jews; Jackson assured Wise that the court would not be conducted according to long-standing Anglo-Saxon jurisprudence; and that “waging a war of aggression would be made a crime-after-the-fact,” with membership in the Nazi party evidence that one committed that crime — so wrote Rabbi Wise in a letter to his wife in 1945), Germans who had engaged in far less criminal activity than Fran’s father were hanged, but Fran Taubman’s war criminal-father is honored by a synagogue where, one assumes, he was a member before his death.

    Killing as religion sanctioned by rabbis.
    Rigging justice in favor of Jews as religion practiced by rabbis.

    We are told that holocaust trauma afflicts the children and even third generation of holocaust survivors.

    One wonders: should the children of war criminals be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, on the theory that they enjoyed a happy life because their parents unconscionably escaped the full weight of justice?

    Does the fact that Fran Taubman is the daughter of a war criminal who escaped the prosecution he richly deserved account for her ugly disposition?

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
    , @anon
  99. @SolontoCroesus

    My father was an arial photographer during the war, he mapped out Europe and France in an airplane for the Normandy invasion.
    My disposition is stellar compared to the ugly smell of a german loser. Go find your war criminals some where else.
    You fail to see that you lost the war, you want to retry it all.
    Go read Mien Kampf and enjoy your hatreds with a good german ale.
    Lol on your war criminal search.
    Was your father an SS officer? You seem so worked up over German war criminals.

  100. @Fran Taubman

    How is what your father did in WWII any different from what Eric Mendelsohn did in WWII?

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  101. anon[117] • Disclaimer says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    Rabbi Stephen Wise in Challenging Years , his autobiography writes this–

    Mr Wilson told me that he would be president one day .

    Later in same page he writes ” I told the congregation at the upper north side of Manhattan that Mr Wilson would become NJ governor He wouldn’t finish his term He would be Democratic candidate and he would be elected president and he would be reelected and finish his second term.

    What a prophesy !! Or was the Byzantine fate visiting America ?

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  102. @SolontoCroesus

    How is what your father did in WWII any different from what Eric Mendelsohn did in WWII?

    What are you asking???? You must be so incredibly dense or just plain stupid. No different. I do not think that Mendelsohn or my father are war criminals.

    What is your point?
    How can you compare that to slave labor, torture and starvation or what the Germans did to the populations of Europe. The bombing of London, etc. Most of the allied war effort was in response to the Axis aggressions. Pearl Harbor etc.

    They were engaged in a war effort to defeat an opponent.
    War criminals are engaged in torture of innocence. My father was engaged in a war effort, serving his country and following his orders. Your post are non sensical.

    You want to parse out this tit for tat, when in fact all of Germany was engaged in upending the world for its dominance and enslavement. The whole of Europe, and Russia.

    If you are sad that Germany lost I cannot help you out. Most people think Germany got what it deserved. You are hopelessly lost.

  103. @Sally Snyder

    I read that article. He’s certainly right about Israelis being unable to tolerate casualties.

    I think the author was being too optimistic because in the next conflict Israel’s cities will face the same destruction that Israel did to Lebanon the last time around. This will be the end of Israel.

  104. @Fran Taubman

    Biographical material about you says that you were born in Baltimore and attended reasonably prestigious colleges.
    Yet you write like someone racing to beat the spittle coming out of your mouth. Your writing is ungrammatical, misspelled, historically disjointed, and that’s before the overlay of pure hate is applied.

    In my view, your father and Erich Mendelsohn are in very different categories: Mendelsohn participated in the planning of crimes against humanity, no two ways about it, unless you think this statement from the Guardian is ambiguous:

    “[German Village] . . . a test site created by the Allied military during the second world war to develop weapons of mass destruction for use against civilian targets in Germany and Japan.

    All that survives of German Village is a single block of high-gabled, prewar Berlin working-class housing. It is accurate in every respect. And it should be: commissioned by the chemical warfare corps of the US army, it was designed by Erich Mendelsohn (1887-1953), the German architect who settled in the US in 1941 after a spell in England.”
    https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2003/may/12/architecture.artsfeatures

    He volunteered to do this, according to the filmmaker who produced a biographical sketch of Mendelsohn.

    Your father’s role was comparatively passive, and at least he could claim that he was functioning in a military role to meet a military adversary.

    Mendelsohn volunteered his services to slaughter civilian women and children.

    Interesting that you choose not to make that distinction.
    Maybe the spittle distracted you.

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  105. @anon

    Joyce Carol Oates’s treatment of Woodrow Wilson in The Accursed is devastating:

    “Princeton’s most formidable people, including Grover Cleveland, fresh out of his second term in the White House, soon-to-be commander in chief Woodrow Wilson, a complex individual obsessed to the point of madness with his need to retain power . . .”

  106. @SolontoCroesus

    addendum:

    Fran Taubman wrote:

    “How can you compare that** to slave labor, torture and starvation or what the Germans did to the populations of Europe.*** The bombing of London, etc.***** Most of the allied war effort was in response to the Axis aggressions. Pearl Harbor****** etc.”

    ** By “that” assume you mean participating in the planning of weapons of mass destruction to be used against civilian women and children.

    *** “What the Germans did to Europe” was not nearly as destructive in lives or property as what Allied bombers, aided by your father, did to Europe: Allies killed far more Frenchmen, Italians, and Bulgarians than anything Germany did. Germans did not destroy historic monuments and whole cities in France and Italy — German-Vichy occupation of France was relatively benign — of but Allies did, including the destruction of the ancient monastery at Monte Cassino.

    ***** “The bombing of London” was deliberately provoked by Churchill and used by him to incite the British and American people to join the war.

    ******“Most of the allied war effort was in response to the Axis aggressions. Pearl Harbor”
    It’s almost indisputable that FDR at very least knew about Pearl Harbor, at worst, he deliberately set it in motion.
    As to Axis aggression: Benjamin Ginsberg’s theory of “non-non-violent provocation” applies. I’ve explained it elsewhere; look it up.

    PS Was your father a Ritchie Boy?

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  107. @SolontoCroesus

    What is a Ritchie boy? What did your father do during the war?
    The generals hung out with him in his darkroom waiting for prints.

  108. Adrian says:
    @Fran Taubman

    You quoted Moshe Gat’s book on the bombings In Iraq directed against Jews. Gat declared himself unable to detect a Zionist hand in this.. Ben Cohen, who reviewed his book for the Journal of Palestine Studies, wrote inter alia this:

    “Gat lists a number of writers who have concluded that Israel was behind these attacks to terrorize the Jews into leaving. For Gat, however, it is ‘unlikely that there will ever be’ a definitive answer to the question of responsibility (p.187). But then he exonerates Israel in an example of the periodic inconsistencies that mar the text; he argues that the Zionist underground would not have adopted such a risky strategy at a time when the Iraqi police was closing in on them (p.186). Yet, he does not consider the possibility that leading Iraqis, whose pockets were being lined, turned a blind eye; nor does he take into account Yigal Allon’s admission, in comments on the ‘Lavon affair’ of 1954 (i.e. a Zionist bombing campaign in Egypt – A.) that such a method of operation – a bombing campaign – ‘was first tried in Iraq’.“

    (Journal of Palestine Studies, Vol.27, No.4, Summer 1998)

  109. Anonymous[354] • Disclaimer says:

    Zionazis, once again, seem unable to avoid their sick Sicarii fate. Will they, again, butcher their own kids for cold-cuts at some new Masada Deli?

    Israelis never miss a chance to give war a chance.

    The Tribe seems to have learned nothing after being frog-marched in the desert for 40 years…and being booted from 109 countries.

    HINT: If you’ve been bounced from even 9 bars, every sane person suspects YOU are the problem.

    Israelo delenda est!

  110. @Stephan Williams

    ‘… You’re just the latest version of that “jelly-like slime” experienced by AH, aren’t you? Almost liquid excrement passing for thought…’

    I think you wildly overestimate the decidedly limited but probably perfectly nice Ms. Taubman. If she was your neighbor, and you just stayed off of politics, you’d probably get along with her just fine.

  111. @Fran Taubman

    ‘… They were engaged in a war effort to defeat an opponent.
    War criminals are engaged in torture of innocence…’

    You’re managing to overlook the point that if you start deliberately slaughtering civilians — including children and even infants — wholesale, you’re necessarily engaging in ‘torture of innocence.’

    There are distinctions to be made, but you’re not making them.

  112. @Fran Taubman

    ‘… If you are sad that Germany lost I cannot help you out. Most people think Germany got what it deserved. You are hopelessly lost.’

    So many Jews participated in the various crimes of revolutionary socialism and the various degradations and corruptions of Weimar Germany. Many Germans participated in the crimes of Nazism.

    Therefore, you feel ‘Germany’ got what it deserved. Would you say it’s fair to say ‘Jewry’ got what it deserved?

    If not, why not?

  113. @Fran Taubman

    ‘… Mien Kampf…’

    Mien Kampf…I suppose that could be a Chinese dish…maybe some kind of fusion cuisine.

    Oh oh. I’m getting a restaurant concept here…

    • LOL: SolontoCroesus
  114. Anonymous[172] • Disclaimer says:

    Anglo conservatives are pro-Jew but anti-Muslim. A typical example of this mentality is Breitbart, but the problem with these two positions is that they are inherently irreconcilable.

    You can’t actively support the people largely responsible for welcoming immigrants in while being against the people being welcomed in, it doesn’t work and you will just go around in circles trying to justify it.

  115. @Alfred

    Absolutely.
    The Jews hide lots of archaeological evidence.
    One of my favorites is all the temples from the first few centuries after Christ that clearly show Jesus had been incorporated into Jewish traditions and was portrayed as Helios/Sol Invictus.
    They hide this stuff away, very carefully and report it as just a typical temple site, no big deal, nothing to see hear.

    These Khazars are the most deceptive people in human history (that I am aware of).
    There is little doubt where these people go upon their death.
    One way ticket to Hell.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @barr
  116. Art says:
    @Stephan Williams

    I didn’t know what to be more amazed at: the agility of their tongues or their virtuosity at lying. Gradually I began to hate them.”

    Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Ch 3.

    “Gradually I began to hate them.”

    Hitler learned to hate Jews. Jews had a hand in what happened to them.

    It is totally true — “Jews cause anti-Semitism”

    Jews have to change their behavior. Only then will anti-Semitism stop.

    Do No Harm — Art

  117. anon[323] • Disclaimer says:
    @Fran Taubman

    “More than 140 Palestinian homes were demolished, resulting in the displacement of 238 Palestinians, 127 of them minors.

    Of the homes that were destroyed, 39 were destroyed by the owners themselves after they received demolition orders from Israel, in order to avoid incurring the municipality’s demolition fees”

    Israeli behavior is not restricted to one particular time or to space . It is a continuation of the same behavior that was founding pillar of the Zionism .

    Arab may have many states . All Humans have many , many more of which Arab is just another part.
    Here is the deep analysis . If tomorrow , Australia become a convert to Judaism , does it mean that German born Jews have to leave and emigrate or be forced . No .

    No one can come to a cotton farming community and tell them that he needs this land because he has found there is no cactus farming anywhere .

    No homeless person can show up at anybody’s door saying that certain type of homeless has no home and
    the home should be delivered to him . A good number of ethnic communities in India China USA Australia or Africa have no country of their own .

    Arab has 30 countries doesn’t mean anything other than people in those countries should have same right and be denied to other from other Arab countries .
    Just like human or citizen of China will be denied the rights enjoyed by citizen of India in India and vice versa.

    By the way the argument is valid when any country says that it will have nukes because Israel has is valid and can be applied to your twisted logic as the only redeeming feature of that reasoning .

    • Replies: @Miro23
  118. anon[323] • Disclaimer says:
    @Fran Taubman

    “Refugees are defined by one generation. The second and third generations no longer have refugee status. They are to become citizens of the countries they live in.”

    You can’t belong to two countries as citizen . One can’t be citizen of USA Canada and Israel same time.
    You can’t be automatic potential citizen of Israel while being citizen of another country .

    You can’t be Jews and Hindu same time .

    So your depiction of citizenship after 1 generation is true but doesn’t apply to Israel or Jews .
    Israel can’t be allowed making rules for themselves, breaking the same rules for other Israeli citizen and crying wolf while another country passes same rules and applies the rules to its citizen only .

  119. Miro23 says:
    @anon

    Of the homes that were destroyed, 39 were destroyed by the owners themselves after they received demolition orders from Israel, in order to avoid incurring the municipality’s demolition fees”

    Rather like AIPAC to US Congressmen . Cooperate in demolishing the US or get demolished yourself.

  120. Art says:
    @Fran Taubman

    My father was an arial photographer during the war, he mapped out Europe and France in an airplane for the Normandy invasion.

    Say Frannie,

    Does you family know that your comments are making more and more anti-Semites?

    Becoming an anti-Semite is natural after reading you.

    Being an anti-Semite is a natural defensive reaction to you.

    Do No Harm — Art

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  121. @steinbergfeldwitzcohen

    ‘… One of my favorites is all the temples from the first few centuries after Christ that clearly show Jesus had been incorporated into Jewish traditions and was portrayed as Helios/Sol Invictus…’

    That’s interesting. Do you have a link or sources handy?

    • LOL: Fran Taubman
  122. anon[323] • Disclaimer says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Those not ‘born for 2 generations’
    or can’t trace links to land for 2 generations should not claim right to the land

    Those who are born and raised in an area they one to claim to be the citizen of
    should then be allowed to live as citizen with full right

    But laws can be discarded for the political convenience and religious fanaticism . Zionism embodies this inconsistency supported by mercenary American soldiers , politicians and intellectuals . .

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  123. @anon

    Oh man, I do not know how you can be so uninformed about laws and facts of the Israel /Palestine story, or perhaps English is not your first language.

    Try and follow the immigration scenario.
    There were originally 800,000 refugees when Israel was created in 1947. Of those I do not know how many were land owners. But Beduins refused to sign land deeds during Ottoman times because they did not want to pay taxes. Of those 800,000, many were new arrivals to Palestine lets say starting in 1900. Many Jews owned land there as well. The whole country had less than a million people living there. Many were new arrivals.

    There are now well over 5.5 million Palestinians that claim refugee status. Do you understand that that would be like me saying I am a refugee of Ukraine since my family owned land there in the 1900’s? I can not go back and reclaim land in the Ukraine?

    That is not they way refugee status works, worldwide. Children of refugees are not refugees. They should be given citizenship in their new country. This is universal or everyone would be claiming land like everywhere.
    Compensation was offered to Arabs who owned land. They refused. They refuse everything. If you want to work out something with the 800,000 let me know. I will arrange compensation. They want to go back. Not happening.

    More to the story and follow this very carefully Anon (323):
    In 1947 the Arabs (they did not call themselves Palestinians at that time) were offered a partition plan. The offer was 70% of the original Palestinian mandate to the Arabs, which included Jordan also a part of the original mandate of Palestine in was called Trans Jordan.
    The remaining 30% was to go to the Jews for the creation of Israel.
    The Arabs rejected the partition plan. If they accepted it they would be celebration 70 years of a Palestinian state.
    Not only did they reject the plan they wanted to drive the Jews into the sea, they wanted zero Jews there. Four Arab armies invaded to wipe Israel out and they LOST!!!!
    They have lost time and time again. The Arabs are losers. Losers do not get to dictate land disputes.
    If the Jews had lost they would be gone, there would be no Jews and no Jewish refugees. Look at it overthrew in the ME. Look at how they fight and steal land from each other. Constant civil wars and refugees. Nothing new.

    If you cannot follow the story or understand what is behind the 5.5million Palestinian refugees I cannot help you but here is a hint: It is and never was about land and or land ownership.
    It is not about a country. The Muslims in Arabia want the Jews gone. Like zero Jews not even 5 or 10 or any Jew even if they own land.
    It is a religious war and the Jews are no longer interested in playing the the games you speak about.
    Israel is for the Jews. Arabia for the Arabs. There are 1.7 million Arab citizens of Israel that have equal status to the Jewish citizens. No Jews live in Arabia, who originated from there.
    It is a religious war between the Jews and the Muslims.

    Did you know that in 1947 there were 750,000 Jewish refugees kicked out of Arab countries?
    Are you going to give them their land back?

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @anon
    , @Adrian
    , @anon
  124. @Art

    G-d I hope so. Clear lines should be drawn. People who hate me should know that I am willing to fight for what I believe.
    You are wrong it is not a defensive reaction. It is aggression, an offense because they do not like Jewish power.
    Sometimes people see things differently and they do not get along. They are natural enemies.
    The Jews used to be defenseless and weak and were told what to do where to live.
    No more. We are strong and going to stay strong.
    Hate away.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  125. barr says:
    @steinbergfeldwitzcohen

    New idea is built on the previous one . Traditions to honor God is often quite similar across various religions divide . Stories are shaped by existing stories .Myths are added to older versions .

  126. @Fran Taubman

    ‘Oh man, I do not know how you can be so uninformed about laws and facts of the Israel /Palestine story, or perhaps English is not your first language…’

    Technically, there must be a true statement somewhere in your tired recital of some very tired lies — but where it would be, I can’t be bothered to see.

    • Replies: @anon
  127. Anonymous[176] • Disclaimer says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Gilad really found an obsessive one person cult in you. And not only are you a hasbara drone, you are also a hater of Germans and World War propagandist.

    What a lovely human being!

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  128. @Fran Taubman

    ‘The Jews used to be defenseless and weak and were told what to do where to live.
    No more. We are strong and going to stay strong.’

    That’s right. Kvell away about your power and your strength. This is an excellent strategy for a group comprising two tenths of one percent of mankind, half of that two-tenths being packed into a strip of semi-desert where they’ve managed to make themselves hated by every single one of their neighbors.

    I suggest a military parade. You could intimidate everybody. Dare them to do anything.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  129. @Anonymous

    ‘Gilad really found an obsessive one person cult in you. And not only are you a hasbara drone, you are also a hater of Germans and World War propagandist.

    What a lovely human being!’

    Don’t forget that cerebral firepower. Fran herself noted that she ‘contributes a lot to this site in the way of intellectual heft.’

    That one, I copied down and saved. It was truly memorable.

  130. anon[299] • Disclaimer says:
    @Colin Wright

    Technically, there must be a true statement somewhere

    sigh

    It is so difficult bearing the burden of intellectual heft.

    We peons are so fortunate that Fran Taubman has reneged on his/her/its numerous threats to abandon the Unz forum.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  131. anon[428] • Disclaimer says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Arabs tried to prevent the expulsion of Palestinian from UN approved by Palestine in 1947-1948
    Zionist went to Yemen and Iraq and later Egypt asking the Jews to leave and come to newly created Israel .

    Before the 1947 they gathered other Middle East Jews to come to Palestine .

    So the Jews don’t have any right whatsoever .

    Palestinians have the right to ask for compensation
    .

  132. @anon

    No I am signing off I just wish people would let me go. Anon 232 just would not stop with his boo hoo Palestinian refugee stuff. Stolen land, etc. It was just too much.
    Just do not answer. I am determined to stop. It is a bit of addiction. You all flatter me so with your ” you hate the Germans”.
    I mean common some of this stuff is funny. And the Neo Nazis on here are like a vaudeville act.
    War crimes for American soldiers.
    Who could resist.
    Colin you really think the Jews are hated more then those flea bag Saudi Princes? Don’t answer that.
    Bid you all adieu.

  133. Anonymous[176] • Disclaimer says:
    @Colin Wright

    Usually the personal neuroticism of individuals is not of my concern. But I find the peculiar mix of claiming moral pureness and intellectual superiority with the explicit justification and excuse of war crimes against your absolutely demonized and dehumanized opposition, including the undoubtedly innocent who happen to share the same ethnic group with your opposition like German women and children, the most captivating detail of propagandists like her.

    Similar to the sort of professional salesman of the holocaust, whom I encountered online. Who called the Hooton, Morgenthau and Kaufman plans reasonable and measured. And just as he emphasized the singularity of the holocaust and how it had been the ultimate crime against humanity, in his next sentence he shouted passionately how the Germans, us, deserve to be exterminated down to the last as a service to humanity.

    If you are American, please do not take it personal when I express my earnest desire for the end of Pax Americana when people like that also form your hostile elite. Even the most fanatical Neo-Nazis, or communists I happened to read online do not sink to these pathological levels.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  134. @Fran Taubman

    ‘…
    No I am signing off I just wish people would let me go. Anon 232 just would not stop with his boo hoo Palestinian refugee stuff. Stolen land, etc. It was just too much.
    Just do not answer. I am determined to stop…’

    Lol (well, a wry chuckle). I always want the last word, too — never realized I could just order it up.

    Don’t let the door hit you on the way out. And who knows?

    ‘…Colin you really think the Jews are hated more then those flea bag Saudi Princes? Don’t answer that.’

    As you suggest, maybe Israel will last even longer than Saudi Arabia.

    It could happen.

    …whoops. I was instructed not to answer that.

  135. @Anonymous

    LOL Pax Americana???
    Have you spoken to any of the families of the 20 million Russians that died in WW2? Who gives a fuck about the Holocaust. The Americans were lovey doves to the Germans compared to the Russians.
    And after WW1 there were generations of French cleaning women who lost husbands in the 1st world war.
    We Americans got off easy. You got to be kidding about personal neuroticism. I mean most of the world was scared to death of the Germans and were quite relieved to see them go down, of course our hearts went out to the innocent the women and children and young soldiers, but where were the people to stop the German war machine inside Germany?
    Common the Nazis did horrible things to not only the Russians, but all of Eastern Europe. People were like mice to them.
    Get lost you are bad news. We Americans did the best we could.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  136. @Fran Taubman

    ‘… Anon 232 just would not stop with his boo hoo Palestinian refugee stuff…’

    I just noticed that. Would Anon’s ‘boo hoo Palestinian stuff’ bear any resemblance to your ‘boo hoo Holocaust survivor stuff’?

    Something like your ‘collective punishment is good for peoples’ thing, eh?

    What’s sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander, as they say.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  137. Anonymous[460] • Disclaimer says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Have you spoken to any of the families of the 20 million Russians that died in WW2?

    I grew up around Russians, blacks, even Iranians and many other Europeans. My best childhood friend was also Russian. And I’ve been to Russia. We can indeed talk alot about the Russian death toll of communism. Invented, financed and lead by http://www.unz.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Ron_Unz_American_Pravda_The_Bolshevik_Revolution_and_Its_Aftermath.pdf

    The Americans were lovey doves to the Germans compared to the Russians.

    Propaganda myth. Read James Bacque Other Losses. Or read Hellstorm. But we all know you won’t.

    And after WW1 there were generations of French cleaning women who lost husbands in the 1st world war.

    Oh yes, indeed. That fateful war where Germany *dared* to uphold its defensive alliances and a quick war that would have left the world immesureably better with a German victory was dragged into a slaughterhouse, directly lead to WW2 and left the world a total mess. Why? (((Wall Street investments))) and the Balfour declaration. Good old Lord Rothschild! Just continuing the family business of profiteering of European goy blood. – Shall we also inquire by whom the Black Hand was financed? Coincidentally enough it was also a J assassin who tried to shoot Bismarck.

    I mean most of the world was scared to death of the Germans and were quite relieved to see them go down

    Yet another propaganda myth. It was British and J lobby power and the political ambitions of the Roosevelt administration that dragged the USA into WW2 in the first place, J and Czech money was behind Churchill. There was never a threat or even intent of “the” Germans, as you always call them, taking over the world. I DO see a certain group controlling and oppressing much of it today and that group sure is not the Germans…

    but where were the people to stop the German war machine inside Germany?

    Where to even begin with this *trope*, this *canard*, eh? Maybe with the question where the Americans are, to stop the American warmachine waging war and killing millions since 9/11 for Jewish neocon wars. And if thus, according to your own logic, the American people deserve to be fire bombed, mass raped, massacred by the millions and their entire nation destroyed, because of it.

    And the allied leadership, especially Churchill, didn’t care for people like Stauffenberg in the slightest. We know perfectly well why and for whom that war was fought. You can pretend not to know it.

    Common the Nazis did horrible things to not only the Russians, but all of Eastern Europe. People were like mice to them.

    Jewish Bolsheviks cooked Orthodox priests alive and fed the broth to other Orthodox priests in the Gulag. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NARnGLvK9hM

    The October Revolution, the Bavarian Soviet Republic, Soviet Bolshevism, Weimar rot, Stalinism, Mao and the great leap forward, the cultural revolution, the Frankfurt School and cultural marxism, the Cold War, finally the potential extinction of all human life on earth. Through communism and atomic weapons built by “chosen ones” like Oppenheimer and Edward Teller. Seems to prove Voltaire right to me on that matter…

    Teller was known to speak in very clinical abstract terms of millions of deaths through his neutron bombs. I wonder where that total disregard for human life came from. Could it be…because they were just goys after all? Just like the Germans. Just like the Amalekites, right?

    Just like the sixteen million Germans you ethnically cleansed in the greatest ethnic cleansing in human history and of whom millions were murdered for being Germans and Germans alone, like my own family and which you pretended never happened. I know the mass graves. I know the torture. I know your lies.

    Get lost you are bad news.

    Likewise. I wish you had never come to Europe in the first place. You are a fanatical people, descendants of the Pharisees and Zealots after all. But I won’t give you the satisfaction and gift you with an “anti-semitic canard”. As Jewish intellectual Susan Sonntag called us, the white race, the cancer of human history.

    But what I always find so ridiculous and even disgusting is the pretentiousness so of many Jews, as a whole the most powerful and privileged group in the entire world, who ruthlessly censor, deplatform, persecute and destroy the lifes of their opposition, to claim that they are the most oppressed group alive.

    It is so utterly bizarre and deranged. And I can only explain it from psychological left-overs from the mindset of traditional Judaism to view yourself at war with all the rest of humanity. There is no other explanation for this behavior. Cultish indoctrination.

    But not all oppression can last forever. Let’s hope yours comes to an end very soon for the benefit of humanity.

    • LOL: Fran Taubman
  138. @Colin Wright

    I have never ever talked about the Holocaust. Noting that I have family “Survivors”.
    Not a Boo hoo in me. Could care less.
    What astounds me is like how Anonymous[460] blames everything, I mean everything in the world on the Jews. The bombs, the bolsheviks, fucking everything. Here I am a Jew knowing all the other Jews, in my family and around the world, just surviving and working hard.
    I for one am glad I get the dogs fed and walked. I have sponsored 2 Polish Catholics for Green Cards, one is now a US citizen. These people speak very differently about the Jews and Europe.
    Most Pols hate the Germans. I mean hate way more then I do.
    So to hear all this time after time, like we are monsters, alien with tails showing from our clothes.
    That we create so much havoc, for them is just astounding when in reality we just bounce off of events like everyone else.
    We control nothing. So much randomness not to see that the Aristocracy of all of Europe and Russia controlled the world sent people, millions of people to die, not a Jew in site. Yet it is us who are responsible, not to mention the Catholic Church in like South America.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  139. @Anonymous

    Mr Bacque is wrong on every major charge and nearly all his minor ones. Eisenhower was not a Hitler, he did not run death camps, German prisoners did not die by the hundreds of thousands, there was a severe food shortage in 1945, there was nothing sinister or secret about the “disarmed enemy forces” designation or about the column “other losses.” Mr Bacque’s “missing million” were old men and young boys in the Volkssturm (People’s Militia) released without formal discharge and transfers of POWs to other allies control areas. Maj. Ruediger Overmans of the German Office of Military History in Freiburg who wrote the final volume of the official German history of the war estimated that the total death by all causes of German prisoners in American hands could not have been greater than 56,000 approximately 1% of the over 5,000,000 German POWs in Allied hands exclusive of the Soviets. Eisenhower’s calculations as to how many people he would be required to feed in occupied Germany in 1945-46 were too low and he had been asking for more food shipments since February 1945. He had badly underestimated the number of German soldiers surrendering to the Western Allies; more than five million, instead of the anticipated three million as German soldiers crossed the Elbe River to escape the Russians. So too with German civilians—about 13 million altogether crossing the Elbe to escape the Russians, and the number of slave laborers and displaced persons liberated was almost 8 million instead of the 5 million expected. In short, Eisenhower faced shortages even before he learned that there were at least 17 million more people to feed in Germany than he had expected not to mention all of the other countries in war-ravaged Europe, the Philippines, Okinawa and Japan. All Europe went on rations for the next three years, including Britain, until the food crisis was over.[41]

  140. @Anonymous

    Yet another propaganda myth. It was British and J lobby power and the political ambitions of the Roosevelt administration that dragged the USA into WW2 in the first place, J and Czech money was behind Churchill. There was never a threat or even intent of “the” Germans, as you always call them, taking over the world. I DO see a certain group controlling and oppressing much of it today and that group sure is not the Germans…

    Have you ever heard of Pearl Harbor. It was not the Jewish lobby. Britain was being shelled by the Germans, and Churchill begged Roosevelt. Do you you know about the German bombing of London?

    • Replies: @anon
  141. @Fran Taubman

    ‘… I for one am glad I get the dogs fed and walked. I have sponsored 2 Polish Catholics for Green Cards, one is now a US citizen…’

    More immigrants! So rub it in, already.

    …I thought you were going away.

  142. Adrian says:
    @Fran Taubman

    You wrote:

    “There were originally 800,000 refugees when Israel was created in 1947. … Of those 800,000, many were new arrivals to Palestine lets say starting in 1900.”

    The idea that Palestinians had not been there “from time immemorial” but were in fact largely recent immigrants was of course defended in that well known hoax and forgery by the late Joan Peters (“From time immemorial …”). Norman Finkelstein revealed the fraud in his doctoral dissertation but American publications, with a few exceptions, hardly dared to touch it until an Israeli historian (Jehoshua Porath) reviewed it scornfully for the New York Times and later again in the New York Review of Books.

    Wikipedia provides a fair account of the matter. Porath is quoted there as saying: it is a “sheer forgery,” … “In Israel, at least, the book was almost universally dismissed as sheer rubbish except maybe as a propaganda weapon.”

    And that is of course how its main thesis is stiil used by you today.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  143. Kiel says:
    @Anon

    Speaking of atom bombs, you folks ever get Dimona cleaned-up?

  144. anon[268] • Disclaimer says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Typical Zionist attempt to distract from the original motive ,to hide earlier events. to ignore the preceding years of singular and seminal importance,and hide the footprints of the Zionist embedded into the kinetics of those historical movements .

    It is akin to blaming ISIS,blaming Islamblaming Aeab nature,blaming sectarianism wand fir getting the onslaught on Arab by Jew and creation of events by Israel from 2006 leading to establishment of ISIS as murder inc of the world .

  145. anon[428] • Disclaimer says:
    @Fran Taubman

    “ By 2030 about 100 years after establishment of League’s mandate , Palestine is free again , Jewis were asked to leave historic Palestine despite the nation of Israel offering compromises and unconditional acceptance of all UN resolutions going back to 1949 and even the original 1948 Palestinian plan of establishing binational Palestinian state with equal rights for Jews and Muslim ‘

    History was rewinded by the swiftly moving events on the ground . In 1947 combined Arab army numbered 35000 , while Jewish army consisted of trained soldiers numbering 100,000.

    Year 2030 the numbers didn’t differ much but this time Arab army was fully trained and was not drawn from unprepared untrained civilian population .

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  146. @Adrian

    I have heard both arguments about the “new arrivals”. I do not know why I mentioned that as it was not the focus of my point regarding the number 800,000, which morphed into 5.5 million wanting to return as refugees.
    It was the overall number which is not in dispute as well as the status of the generations following the original refugees and how that applies to refugee status for everyone around the world. The next generation are given citizenship in their new country.
    No one gets to go back to the country their grandparents left to claim land and citizenship status.
    I will concede to you that all of those 800,000 were there from the beginning of time, does not change my central point. How long the 800,000 were in Palestine does not change the focus today.
    As well as the fact that there were as many Jewish refugees living in Arab lands since Temple times and before, Jews also lived in Palestine from Temple times.
    It just does not really matter. They are not going back.

  147. @anon

    What happened in 1967, and 1971. Four standing armies tried to take Israel down.
    Arabs are not great fighters. Look at how Saudi Arabia defended their oil fields.
    Or Yemen or Syria.

  148. norefunds says:

    I might as well get this stool here…

    and set right down and do it, huh?

    If that’s all right with you, huh?

    What it’s about is Billy Borders.

    Don’t know the man.

    You missed your chance,

    ’cause you shot him yesterday. Him and Ike Sharp

    and Fred Morris..

    You know, those is just the names, .. in case you’re interested.

    Well, I’m not really interested, Sheriff.
    I can’t say I blame you.

    Billy, he wasn’t a loved man, no..

    He didn’t have much personality.

    What he did have was all bad, just bad.

    What you’re tryin’ to say is there’s no charge, right?

    ” Forgive and forget.”

    That’s our motto.

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