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A Window Into Jewish Guilt
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It has become an institutional Jewish habit to examine how much Jews are hated by their host nations and how fearful Jews are of their neighbours. Jewish press outlets reported yesterday that “9 out of 10 US Jews worry about anti-Semitism.”

I, for one, can’t think of another people who invest so much energy in measuring their unpopularity. Despite the scale of Islamophobia and anti-Black racism, we are not subjected to a constant barrage of ‘statistics’ to ‘warn us’ of how hated Blacks are or how unsafe Muslims feel.

The American Jewish Committee’s (AJC) statistics suggest that “most Jews think that the situation is getting worse.” I find their statistics unlikely but I guess any mathematically inclined person would agree that if 9 out of 10 are fearful, then the situation can’t get much ‘worse’ as 10 out of 10 would constitute only a minor increase (11%).

Assume, for a moment, that the AJC’s statistics reflect reality and that the overwhelming majority (90%) of 1,200 Jewish respondents, from all political and religious positions, regard Jew-hatred as a serious problem with potentially disastrous consequences.

We might wonder who are the ‘naughty’ one out of ten Jews who, unlike their brethren, are not scared of their American neighbours. I suspect these are the so-called ‘self-haters,’ that infamous bunch of horrid humanist Jews who support Palestine and are disgusted by the manifold of recent Jewish #MeToo scandals and paedophilia/organised crime networks. This small minority (10%) of disobedient Jews might be disturbed by the opioid scandal that left 400.000 Americans dead, they probably know who were the prime actors in this saga of class genocide. They are likely troubled by a range of financial crimes from Madoff to Israeli banks evading US taxes, to the Israeli binary options companies that defraud American citizens. These universalist Jewish outcasts are often vocal critics of their people, their culture and their politics. They may denounce AIPAC and the ADL, Soros and even JVP for acting as the controlled opposition. The AJC’s statistics point to the possible existence of a comic scenario in which 9 out of 10 Jews are intimidated by the 1 out of 10 Jews who speak out.

There is a less humorous, more serious interpretation of the AJC’s findings. It is possible that the large number of Jews who worry about anti-Semitism indicates that Jews at large are aware of the worrying traits associated with their politics, culture, identity, lobbying and Israeli criminality.

ORDER IT NOW

Jews may feel that they are stained as a group by problematic characters such as Weisntein, Epstein and Maxwell. They may feel polluted by Israeli politics and the intensive Zionist lobbying that plunders billions of American taxpayers dollars every year. As the White House seems to turn its back on the Neocons’ immoral interventionism, some Jews may be discomfited by the fact that the Neocon war mongering doctrine has been largely a Jewish project. As Haartez writer Ari Shavit wrote back in 2003: “The war in Iraq was conceived by 25 neoconservative intellectuals, most of them Jewish…” Maybe some Jews now understand that the Zionist shift from a ‘promised land’ to the Neocon ‘promised planet’ doesn’t reflect well on the Jews as a group.

I am trying to point out the possibility that the overwhelming fear of ‘anti-Semitism,’ documented however poorly by the AJC, might well be the expression of guilt. American Jews may feel communal guilt over the disastrous politics and culture of some sections of their corrupted elite. They might even feel guilty as Americans about the brutal sacrifice of one of America’s prime values, that of freedom of speech as guaranteed by the 1st Amendment, on the altar of ‘antisemitsm.’ .

Obviously, I would welcome AJC’s further investigation of this. It would be interesting to learn about the correlation between the Jewish fear of anti Semitsm and Jewish guilt. It would also be fascinating to find out how Jewish anxiety translates into self-reflection. In that regard, I suggest that instead of blaming the American people, Jews try introspection. US Jews may want to follow the early Zionists, such as Theodor Herzl, who turned guilt into self-examination. Herzl was deeply disturbed by anti Semitism but this didn’t stop him from digging into its causes. “The wealthy Jews control the world, in their hands lies the fate of governments and nations,” Herzl wrote. He continued, “They set governments one against the other. When the wealthy Jews play, the nations and the rulers dance. One way or the other, they get rich.” Herzl, like other early Zionists, believed that Jews could be emancipated from their conditions and even be loved globally by means of a cultural, ideological and spiritual metamorphosis with the aspiration of ‘homecoming.’ Herzl and his fellow early Zionists were clearly wrong in their proposed remedy for the Jewish question, but were absolutely spot on in their adherence to self-reflection and harsh self-criticism.

American Jews have much to learn from Herzl and other early Zionists. They should ask themselves how their American ‘Golden Medina’ their Jewish land of opportunities, has turned into a ‘threatening’ realm. What happened, what has changed in the last few years? Was it the constant cries over anti-Semitism and the desperate and institutional attempts to silence critics that turned their Golden Medina into a daunting space?

(Republished from Gilad Atzmon by permission of author or representative)
 
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  1. Well, here is at least one more thing that the Jews can feel more guilty about.

  2. Regarding introspection, Jewishness will never produce a Kierkegaard. What they deliver instead is a Roth, shooting his ejaculate so high as to shatter a light bulb. I suppose this could be looked upon as a cultural achievement by a certain class of people; the Peggy Guggenheims of the world would hail it as a sort of action painting.

    • LOL: Tusk
  3. @Reality Cheque

    No poll question in which Jews are asked to identify themselves as Jews and in which those Jews are asked for their honest feelings about something like the then-failing Iraq invasion, undertaken under the malign influence of Likudnik and pro-Israel Jews, is worth the paper its printed on.

    • Replies: @Tom Verso
    , @Wally
  4. AaronB says:

    Anti-Semitism is a subset of class warfare, and thus perfectly natural in any society with high inequality and large numbers of Jews. Because Jews always ally themselves with the rulers and higher classes, as a survival strategy, and also because their talents naturally place them in the higher classes.

    The intelligent anti-Semitism of people like Chesterton and Belloc are of this type. These people are perfectly capable of having honorable respect for Jews and deep appreciation for Jewish culture while believing Jews may not be a good fit for their host society. Its nothing personal. Just realism.

    Unlike Gilad Atzmon, who sees no problem with other groups who compete and pursue self interest but finds Jews doing so uniquely unacceptable and a cause for “guilt”, they are generally self-aware and honest enough to not blame Jews for competing on the world stage – for being human – and realize Europeans were far harsher towards those foreign peoples they competed against.

    There is another kind of anti-Semitism that just reflects mankind’s propensity to hate anyone who is different, and comes from the same place as the vicious cruelties against all manner of heretics and dissenters, including genocides, that was such a pronounced characteristic of Christian Europe, and the racism of European society.

    This generally has to do with pent up frustrations and resentments, which because of special aspects of European culture, were uniquely intense in that part of the world ( Europeans were/are uniquely frustrated and unhappy with existence). Most anti-Semites on Unz are of this kind, like commenters Colin Wright and utu, for instance, and authors Linh Dinh and Kevin Barrett, Andrew Joyce, and Guyenot, and others.

    These kinds of anti-Semites despise Jewish culture and anything Jewish, and often feel compelled to invent elaborate grotesque mythologies using selective sources and distorted interpretations to “prove” that Jewish culture and religion is unlike any other and uniquely evil. Completely un-selfaware and lacking in introspection or historical perspective, they are are not honest enough and emotionally stable enough to see group competition as the historic norm, and their own group as no angels in this regard.

    In their reading of history, no group competes except Jews, and the whole world would be a paradise of harmony if not for these devilishly evil Jews.

    Needless to say, this kind of infantile anti-Semitism is more of an emotional cri de ceour of personal anguish, from an unbalanced mind, than anything to be taken seriously. And these people today are effectively marginalized.

    The Jewish “problem” in Europe is simply that of normal group competition among a host population that by world standards, has always been uniquely intolerant of other ways of life and thought, and uniquely imperialistic about its own values and standards, and uniquely addicted to trying to control its environment (which ended up in science and technology). Jews in China, India, and to some extent the Muslim world, hardly posed a comparable “problem”.

    Zionism has obviously been an almost complete success in shifting Jewish group competition away from within societies more towards the more normal pattern of national competition, as Gilad Atzmon prefers as “healthy”.

    Jewish influence today outside of Israel is primarily directed to the current Imperial center, America. Empires, by nature, always have foreign factions vying for favor and influence. Rome was of course the same way. This is quite natural for empires. So Jewish attempts to influence America – the self-designated policeman of the world – is quite naturally a part of any imperial system, as the world policeman, one naturally needs to have him on your side, of course.

    So the Jewish “problem” has largely been solved through Zionism – but of course, as more Jews move to Israel, the situation will get even better. And if imperial power shifts away from America, the new imperial center will, obviously, become the site for various foreign factions to vie for influence.

  5. @ThreeCranes

    this is too funny … but you are correct, philosophy is from Athens ,,, Mitzvoth are from Jerusalem…Spinoza was obviously an Athenian, hence was subject to excommunication…

  6. @AaronB

    no one has a problem with Jews being gifted or being part of the elite,, but ppl do have problems with Madoffs, Binary options, Weinstein, Epstein, Aipac, ADL interfering with elementary freedoms… do you really need me to explain all of that? for the record, by the time the Jewish problem was solved by Zionism, Zionism was defeated by Jewishness and Israel became the Jewish State ,,, my next book is all about that …

  7. ‘…So the Jewish “problem” has largely been solved through Zionism – but of course, as more Jews move to Israel, the situation will get even better. And if imperial power shifts away from America, the new imperial center will, obviously, become the site for various foreign factions to vie for influence.’

    …but as power shifts away from America, she becomes less able to nurture Israel and shield her from the consequences of her actions, and then what?

    You talk about moving back there. Would you do that if your standard of living there would be, say, a quarter of what it is now, and if, to please the world, you had to accept that the judge you were going to appear before might well be Muslim?

    …I doubt it. As US power declines, Israel will be abandoned. So we won’t have gotten anywhere at all.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @Ilyana_Rozumova
  8. @AaronB

    Another aspect of your post — and here the anti-semites have a point — is that conspicuously missing from your list of possible causes of anti-semitism is the actions of Jews themselves.

    Surely their prominence in the various violent revolutionary movements and tyrannies of the first half of the twentieth century, their activism on behalf of sexual perversion and unrestricted immigration, their role as tax farmers and loan sharks, might have had something to do with the various outbreaks of anti-semitism?

    I don’t suggest that this somehow justifies ganging up on the Jewish kid on the playground — much less justifies the Holocaust — but can’t you grant that the actions of Jews themselves might somehow have contributed to anti-semitism?

    At times? Somewhere? One of the more unpleasant aspects of Jewish advocacy is the almost perfect failure to admit any shortcomings in the collective behavior of Jews at all. After all, even in Japan, if one goes to the section of the Tokyo municipal museum devoted to the 1945 fire-bombing, the plaques do note that it was Japan herself who had initiated large-scale bombing of civilian populations back in China in 1937, and one can find the same in German accounts of the savageries of the Red Army in East Prussia.

    At least some other people don’t share this shortcoming of the Jews. They admit their own agency in their sufferings.

  9. Nodwink says:
    @AaronB

    There is no respect for normal competition within groups from Jewry. Jews expect to dominate any nation they inhabit, and any attempt to thwart this supposedly divinely-ordained control is met with claims of “antisemitism.” The fabricated claims against Jeremy Corbyn are an egregious example of this.

  10. anaccount says:
    @AaronB

    Perhaps it’s the anguish of friends lost to Sackler’s bad medicine, family members broken by Israeli wars, the tax slavery and alimony pushed by your highly ‘competitive’ tribe. A strong country slowly turned into a multi-cultural economic zone for the international elite.

    Maybe there is a fine line between ethnic competition and ethnic hatred but we would be fools to accept you as a referee. We were fools to accept you at all.

    All empires fall eventually, yours too.

  11. Chu says:

    Antisemitism is useful component of the rabbinate to generate internal group cohesion. It forms a separation barrier, like an eruv, between goyim and Jew.

  12. @Gilad Atzmon

    ‘no one has a problem with Jews being gifted or being part of the elite,, but ppl do have problems with Madoffs, Binary options, Weinstein, Epstein, Aipac, ADL interfering with elementary freedoms…’

    Well, in the interests of full disclosure…

    Those Jews who play mighty warrior for Zion tend to be the least impressive of the tribe, and I’m quite sure I’m the intellectual superior of, for example, Fran Taubman, and for that matter, ‘AaronB.’

    Nevertheless, there is a sort of tribal jealousy. It sticks in my craw to have to admit that collectively, gentiles are dumber than Jews — at least Ashkenazi Jews. But let’s face it; a whole of us uncircumcised ones just aren’t very bright.

    That, however, really isn’t the wellspring of most anti-semitism. I can handle the equivalent realization about Chinese and in particular, Japanese, without developing feelings of hostility.

    • Replies: @cyrusthevirus
    , @AaronB
    , @Oracle
  13. @Gilad Atzmon

    imo your essay misses the point of why Jews should feel guilt, therefore AaronB’s comment also fails to address a critical issue.

    I can’t cite chapter and verse, but it has to be the case in the course of human events that plenty of individuals and even groups have engaged in behavior as objectionable as Madoff, Weinstein, Epstein, and the the numerous swindles Israel engages in.

    I don’t think those offenses are exclusive to Jews. Atzmon’s essay here may amount to a limited hangout.
    AaronB’s comment is braggadocio; Although I agree w/ AaronB that the power-center will shift from USA to the East, and that if Jews follow the pattern of their ancient myths and last 120 years of history, they will destroy USA on their way out; nevertheless Jews will have to share power with Russia and China, Arabs/Muslims will have a say, and Iran should not be counted out — they’ve dealt with Jews longer than any other people and know well their treachery.
    It ain’t over ’til the fat lady sings, AaronB, and there’s a whole cast of divas just warming up.

    I do believe that the creation of zionist Israel may be unique in the known history of the world: Jews not only dispossessed a native people in Palestine — USAians did pretty much the same — Jews got other nation-states to do their killing for them.

    But even more significantly, Jews killed — genocided, really — non-Jews in the countries that had hosted them — American colonists did not genocide the British in British homeland — once again, Jews arranged for the killing to be carried out by another state, in the case of the genocide of Germany, American and British Christians became Jewish weapons to kill their own fellow-Christians.

    At the same time, Jews needed to cull their own herd: the elite that Atzmon and AaronB gloat over — the “remnant,” is a relatively recent phenomenon; it may be that the vaunted 6 million were dead wood; impoverished, filthy, inbred: Jabotinsky found them disgusting and Nordau called them “Degenerate.” Worse: they were a drag on the mean. Russia and Poland were crawling with Jews of “unsuitable human material” for the “new Jew” that was to populate the zionist utopia. They had to be got rid of; just as Moses delegated Levites to kill fellow Jews at Mt. Sinai, so Louis Brandeis, Frankfurter etc. fell upon Hitler, Churchill, Stalin and FDR to kill surplus, degenerate Jews. Saddam & el Baghdadi are minor replicas of a similar mold employed to kill inconvenient challengers or competitors to zionist Jews.

    Jews killed — or arranged for the killing — of their own undesireables. In addition, Jews killed or arranged for the killing of “the best gentiles;” and then, the master stroke: Jews proclaimed themselves the victims and psychologically manipulated those shattered peoples — Germans and other Western Europeans– to the extent that those populations paid and continue to pay Jews for “Jewish suffering,” while also punishing themselves out of existence with their own Jewish-induced, psychologically-manipulated guilt.

    This systemic program — patterned on the mythic flight from Egypt, and conquest of Canaan but worked out in real time, is, I believe, unique in all the world.

    Jewish holocaustism is why Jews are hated.

    Maybe some Jews realize what they have done.

    Jews are correct to feel “guilty” and fearful of a “rise in antisemitism.”

    No statistics or polls to cite, just hazarding a guess: “antisemitism” will rise in lockstep with realization among non-Jews that the holocaust is a hoax.
    I am not sure the possibility exists for Jews to be forgiven for what they have done.

    It ain’t gonna be pretty.

    • Agree: renfro, Saggy
    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  14. @AaronB

    as more Jews move to Israel [sic]

    Even with activist groups trying to spook Jews and cajole them into making aliyah, fuck-all of them do – and an almost-offsetting number leave.

    The net migration rate (all religions) for Occupied Palestine is 0.2%/yr – a rounding error – and inwards-migration is overwhelmingly ‘economic refugee’ in character (almost half of annual Jewish in-migration is from former Soviet countries).

    As guys like Sassoon, Shlomo Sand, and others have noted: Western European Jews have every opportunity to go live in Palestine, but have always exhibited fuck-all interest in doing so. In this they echo Maimonides: after the Almohad conquest of Cordoba and the abolition of dhimmi status for non-Muslims, the Rambam spent almost all of his life in Egypt and Morocco – he had every opportunity to settle in Palestine but chose to live and work elsewhere.

    And so it is to this day: affluent, educated Western Jews would rather eat their own dicks that move to Palestine. And that’s even true of arch-Zionists like Adelson and Dershowitz – neither of whom are ‘Western’ in any real sense (they’re pretty obvious of Lithuanian or other-Osteuropäische). descent.

    Given the Exodus (LOL) of secular Jews, and the pattern of in-migration and reproduction, it’s pretty clear that Palestine will become a third-world nation in a couple of generations: having emerged from the hovels of Eastern Europe, the Ashkenazim are remaking Palestine in its image.

    There are good signs though: the huge-and-rising proportion of datlashim among the children of “box-heads” (Ultra-Orthodox), for a start. Even when everyone around them is trying to fill their heads with primitive supremacist tribal drivel, almost a third of children of box-heads are secular by the time they finish high school.

    There is a well-understood (outside the US) bifurcation of Jewish communities into “People Like Us” and Eastern Europeans.

    In Australia the dividing line can be drawn at around 1920: “People Like Us” are integrated, and for the most part they politely and quietly ignore the rabbit-eaters – those are the ones howling all the time about how at-risk they are, but who somehow can’t find a way to get to the Jewish ‘safe space’ in Palestine … unless there is a warrant out for their arrest, in which case it’s “Tomorrow Morning in Jerusalem!“.

  15. AaronB says:
    @Gilad Atzmon

    But that’s ridiculous. Every group has its criminals and the more ambitious and talented, the worse. You can’t have the talented Jews who contribute to science, technology, culture, and philanthropy without some of that energy getting corrupted.

    It’s like that will all groups. When Europe was very energetic and vital it produced tremendous sinners and corruption while also people of tremendous benefit to society and the world.

    Saints go along with sinners. Its because when you have a certain quantum of energy, you cannot control where all of it goes. Some of it had to get corrupted. Only way to avoid this is to neuter people.

    So again….what does this have to do with Jewishness specifically? How this is different from the Robber Barons of the 19th century, the rapacious and deceptive imperialists, the current day Chinese oligarchs, etc? Umm, European and world history is littered with bad actors a million times worse than, wet, Bernie Madoff and the ADL, lol…

    That Jews also produce bad actors proves that there is something uniquely wrong with Jewishness per se? Are you nuts? This is what I mean by complete lack of self awarness and historical literacy…

    Pick up a history book. You are so self absorbed in your fantasy world its as if no other people produces bad actors or have ever, and we must search for the utterly mysterious fact that some Jews act in the unique characteristics of Jewishness…

  16. AaronB says:
    @Colin Wright

    US support has always acted as much as a restraint as a benefit. Israel’s most contested wars were won without US support, and in fact the US only became heavily involved with Israel only after it firmly established itself and demonstrated its capacity for self reliance, and it thought it could use it as an ally in the Cold War.

    While certainly appreciated, US support is hardly crucial to Israel’s survival lol. Your historical illiteracy and wishful thinking causes you to completely misunderstand it and vastly overrate it.

  17. @Colin Wright

    Bullshit –accept your own stupidity if you like but dont deign to speak for anyone else !! Take any large city bedevilled by organised crime — are the ORGANISED criminals successful at least temporarily –yes ! Are they smarter than anyone else –NO !! If the Jews are so smart why do they eventually always eff up?? They are organised with rat like cunning no doubt but seem to create misery wherever they go and are so effin smart they are astounded that they are hated !! What could have caused it –we are so smart why cant we figure it out !!

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  18. AaronB says:
    @Colin Wright

    What are you talking about. I just said there is a perfectly reasonable type of anti-Semitism that is a natural response to group competition – the actions of Jews themselves.

    Obviously no ones hands are clean when it comes to group competition. This is an “innocent” phenomenon of history that characterizes all groups without exception.

    What Jews object to is not normal criticism, which we engage in ourselves in a very spirited manner, but the singling out of Jewish competitive behavior in the struggle for life as somehow uniquely evil and bad. I won’t even go into the horrific crimes Europeans and Asians have committed in this struggle and compare them to, err, Bernie Maddow, but accept for the sake of argument all groups are equally guilty.

    So a sane criticism of Jews that places it in the normal context of group competition, which is always horrific, is perfectly ok. But the kind of singling out for special stigma and opprobrium the Jewish part in the universal human struggle for survival – when if anything it is milder than that of other groups which are truly horrific – is indeed sinister and justifies terms like anti-Semitism.

    Now because so many people single out Jews for special criticism, as if they alone are not allowed to compete to live, some Jews have become hypersensitive and see in even innocent and justified criticism the seeds of the kind of sinister anti-Semitism that so often rears its ugly head. Thats perfectly understandable, although I condemn it.

  19. Anonymous[127] • Disclaimer says:

    I, for one, can’t think of another people who invest so much energy in measuring their unpopularity.

    This is perfectly logical. No other group sees their hosts as dangerous cattle which has to be exploited and undermined at every opportunity. Feeling the pulse of the herd – before these actions create another blowback – is just part of the chosenite’s job.

    I don’t see much guilt among the Jews. It’s mostly (justified) fear that certain elements of the Tribe are moving too aggressively and spoiling it for the rest.

  20. @SolontoCroesus

    This is what you have wrought Gilad. A philosophy of yours about Judaism and Jews and this is where it ends up. With guys like this writing about.

    But even more significantly, Jews killed — genocided, really — non-Jews in the countries that had hosted them — American colonists did not genocide the British in British homeland — once again, Jews arranged for the killing to be carried out by another state, in the case of the genocide of Germany, American and British Christians became Jewish weapons to kill their own fellow-Christians.

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  21. anaccount says:
    @AaronB

    If you knew your history you would know about Operation Nickel Grass: 22,325 tons of tanks, artillery, ammunition per Wikipedia. This was US aid during one of Israel’s most contested wars (Yom Kippur) and unsurprisingly, we don’t get any appreciation for it. I bet I could find an article criticizing the US for not doing it fast enough.

  22. @Colin Wright

    There always is Birobitzan and it will be there. (Road House)

  23. renfro says:
    @AaronB

    Translated Arronb…….nothing wrong with Jews, anti-Semitism all the fault of those others
    LOL…same old same old.

  24. AaronB says:
    @Colin Wright

    I have no doubt you’re smarter than me, Colin. Your’e a pretty smart dude. I don’t know about Fran Taubman, though.

    Statistically, there are far more smart whites than Jews by a huge margin. And I am not even sure Jews are smarter than whites – I think the advantage in Jewish ways of thinking are cultural. We don’t buy into simple binary thinking like whites do, so remain more intellectually supple and dextrous.

    Anyways, one of the great things about Israel is that we can be more physical and don’t have to be so smart anymore. Oh sure, Israeli Jews are smart. They make good technology and produce lots of great army officers and tactics and techniques, great conpanies, etc. But the kind of cunning needed by diaspora Jews isn’t so necessary anymore, and I’ve always been struck by how maladroit and clumsy Israelis seemed on tv presenting defending Israel and the like.

    Hopefully, when I move to Israel ill lose another 10 IQ points or so, if I’m lucky. Bliss.

    • Replies: @frankie p
    , @Alfred
    , @Ace
  25. @cyrusthevirus

    ‘What are you talking about. I just said there is a perfectly reasonable type of anti-Semitism that is a natural response to group competition – the actions of Jews themselves…’

    …virtually all of said actions being perfectly reasonable — according to you. Just group competition.

    Oh wait, you mentioned Bernie Madoff. How about, say, those actions that drove the previously rather amiable Lithuanian peasantry into a murderous frenzy in the summer of 1941?

    • Replies: @cyrusthevirus
  26. @Fran Taubman

    Fran Taubman translated from zio-crazy w/ Chabad accent to ordinary English:

    “Fuck it, Gilad, you are letting the cat out of the bag.”

    • Replies: @OilcanFloyd
  27. @AaronB

    ‘…It’s like that will all groups. When Europe was very energetic and vital it produced tremendous sinners and corruption while also people of tremendous benefit to society and the world…’

    This is your typical glib generalization — upon inspection, it seems to have absolutely no basis in fact.

    Several small communities have managed to produce people who notably helped mankind without any concomitant output of villains. Norway comes to mind; how about Switzerland. Conversely, other groups notoriously produce bad actors in abundance without ever offering much of anything good at all in compensation — Gypsies, for example.

    So it’s the purest nonsense to assert that Jewish villains are the necessary flip side to Jewish saints. There’s no rational reason to accept this statement.

    That’s one of the things that irritates me about you. You simply dream up and write whatever sounds good — without any apparent concern as to whether it’s actually so or not. It’s like you could announce that in Israel, Jews grow to be an average of seven feet tall. If it sounded good to you, you’d say it. It would never occur to you to check.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  28. @AaronB

    ‘US support has always acted as much as a restraint as a benefit. Israel’s most contested wars were won without US support…’

    Now Aaron, I’ve demonstrated the falsity of this assertion at least twice — and yet here you are simply repeating it. It’s as if I never posted the evidence contradicting your claims at all.

    It really is like that passage in Mein Kampf concerning the Jews of Vienna and their arguments. Hitler’s observations about Jews in general are of dubious validity — to say the least. However, he certainly could have been describing you.

  29. Anon 2 says:

    There is little evidence that real Jews living on their own are particularly smart. For example,

    (1) They failed to form their own nation when Europe was basically free for the taking in the 7th-8th centuries. The Lechites and the Magyars founded their own countries, Poland and Hungary, respectively, which exist to this day. European Jews could’ve done the same thing but they refused to till the soil and to become warriors, showing massive levels of incompetence, and for centuries becoming, like Gypsies, a major burden to everyone in Europe;

    [MORE]

    (2) After the Jews were largely expelled from Western Europe, they settled in the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, a decentralized republic, for over 200 years the largest country in Europe. By 1550 about 90% of the world’s Ashkenazi Jews lived in the Polish-ruled Commonwealth which included big chunks of Belarus and Ukraine where they basically formed a country within a country. So what did they do when they were left to their own resources? They became largely Orthodox and Ultra-Orthodox, and lived like this through the 1930s. In Poland many people joke that Israel is a Polish colony in the Middle East because it was founded and ruled mainly by people from Poland or the former territory of the Commonwealth, e.g., Ben-Gurion, Menachem Begin (Polish name: Mieczysław Biegun) or Netanyahu (his Polish father’s name: Mileikowski).

    My thesis is that it is the Israeli Jews, not the American or French Jews, who are closer to being real Jews. And what do they do in Israel? To a large extent they have reproduced the way of life of the Polish Jews – they practice Orthodoxy and Ultra-Orthodoxy just like their ancestors did for centuries in Greater Poland. Olga Tokarczuk, Poland’s latest Nobel laureate in Literature, writes about these matters in her 900-page novel The Books of Jacob (to be published in English in March). Israel has now existed for 71 years. What does it have to show for it? Not much. How many Nobel Prizes in Physics, Chemistry or Literature has it won so far? Virtually none (I am speaking of real Jews born in Israel or Palestine, and continuing to live there, i.e., relying on their own resources, and not getting a free ride in the West). Not very surprising, considering that Israel’s mean IQ is only 92-3, and the country doesn’t even have a university in the top 100. Unlike Poland or Russia, Israel hasn’t even won a gold medal in the International Math Olympiad, certainly not in recent years. No, real Jews, as shown by Israel, have low to medium intelligence. In many areas, even in the West where they are getting a free ride, Jews are kind of dumb, especially in engineering, which explains why New York, dominated by Jews, is, with its rapidly decaying subway system and the power grid, becoming a Third World city. American Jews will not deserve respect until they help carry the load, that is until they are equally represented in dangerous, unhealthy, outdoor occupations. One reason why Jews are disliked is because they refuse to carry the load equitably, and they have a centuries-old tradition of doing so, i.e., shirking their duties and being a burden to us all. Jews are nothing special, and therefore are expected to sacrifice for the common good and to carry the heavy load like everybody else.

    • Replies: @Anon 2
    , @Colin Wright
  30. AaronB says:
    @Colin Wright

    Umm, no.

    Neither Norway not Switzerland are notable for being among the nations that contributed much to mankind. They certainly do not compare to Athens, Florence, Paris, London, Berlin, lol. But anyways, both have histories with the usual amount of hideous bloodshed, repression, and warfare. Pick up a history book for Gods sake.

    But quite literally, every major center of activity that is particularly famous – from Florence to London – is notable for producing saints and sinners.

    If you were correct about Norway and the Swiss, you’d merely show only that there are some exceptions, not that Jews should, once again, be singled out. But Norway and the Swiss nowhere appear as great centers of activity for the benefit or detriment of mankind.

    Seriously, Colin, stop it with the Jew hatred already…its unbecoming of someone as smart and talented as you.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  31. renfro says:
    @AaronB

    Every group has its criminals and the more ambitious and talented, the worse. You can’t have the talented Jews who contribute to science, technology, culture, and philanthropy without some of that energy getting corrupted

    LOL……the percentage of Jewish crimes is more than 20 times their population percentage.

    publications – NCJRS Abstract – National Criminal Justice …
    https://www.ncjrs.gov › App › publications › Abstract
    HOWEVER, THE JEWISH CRIME RATE TENDS TO BE HIGHER THAN THAT OF NONJEWS AND OTHER RELIGIOUS GROUPS FOR WHITE-COLLAR OFFENSES, THAT IS, COMMERCIAL OR FRAUD OR … Type: Report (Study/Research). Country
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8667998

    Jews are responsible for an astonishing 23.9% of financial crime in America even though they are only 1.9 %of the [population.

    Huge leap in number of Jews behind bars – The Jewish …
    https://www.thejc.com › news › uk-news › huge-leap-in-number-of-jews-b…
    Oct 7, 2015 – The number of Jews in prison has increased by 82 per cent since 2002, nearly … were more likely to be guilty of so-called white-collar crimes

    Nothing new in Jewish crime, they’ve always been major white collar criminals:…..but of course its because of anti-Semitism and now the holocaust…LOL
    Across Europe, between 1881 and 1914, Jews were over-represented in bankruptcy, forgery, fraud and libel. See P. Knepper, The Invention of International Crime: A Global Issue in the Making, 1881-1914, (Palgrave MacMillan, 2010), p.80.

  32. There’s another aspect to this; is anti-semitism a problem in the US at all?

    I don’t think so — not by any sane measure. Of course there is always inter-group suspicion and hostility; here in Oregon, one can pick up a certain degree of resentment of all us Californians from the minority of actual Oregonders still about. Nothing major — but it’s there. I made haste to get an Oregon license plate on the car. Women suspect the motives of men, I don’t want a black neighbor, etc. This is called real life. Things are tough all over.

    Now as to Jews in particular… Well, according to the Pew survey of religious attitudes, Jews are more popular among Americans than the practitioners of any other faith. The difference becomes even more marked if people are asked about practitioners of faiths other than their own.

    https://www.pewforum.org/2014/07/16/how-americans-feel-about-religious-groups/

    What more could Jews want? They’re number one — and yet they seriously pretend to fear and worry about anti-semitism.

    I think it’s as Atzmon suggests. If Jews worry about anti-semitism, it’s because they realize their own conduct is creating good reason for anti-semitism. After all, on whose behalf have Americans been dying overseas lately? Should we look at the ethnic distribution of our recent wave of sexual miscreants? Talk about who promotes sexual deviance and ‘come one, come all’?

    If there is fear, it is a matter of ‘the wicked flee when no man pursueth.’ The truth is that no one minds Jews — not especially. Most Americans can’t even distinguish them from other whites. It must be that Jews themselves realize that their collective conduct is reprehensible, and is becoming more so.

  33. renfro says:
    @AaronB

    US support has always acted as much as a restraint as a benefit. Israel’s most contested wars were won without US support, and in fact the US only became heavily involved with Israel only after it firmly established itself and demonstrated its capacity for self reliance, and it thought it could use it as an ally in the Cold War

    Silly little troll….YOU pick up history book …lol

    Operation Nickel Grass was a strategic airlift operation conducted by the United States to deliver weapons and supplies , tanks and aircraft to Israel during the 1973 Yom Kippur War.

  34. Denis says:
    @AaronB

    Unlike Gilad Atzmon, who sees no problem with other groups who compete and pursue self interest but finds Jews doing so uniquely unacceptable and a cause for “guilt”, they are generally self-aware and honest enough to not blame Jews for competing on the world stage – for being human – and realize Europeans were far harsher towards those foreign peoples they competed against.

    You are disingenuous. Mr. Atzmon is very consistently opposed to racism and abuse by anyone. He simply devotes particular attention to these subjects as they relate to Jews, because this is an area which he is knowledgable about, and he feels that it is not discussed enough.

  35. Anon 2 says:
    @Anon 2

    Something very interesting is happening in the United States: Jews, heavily concentrated in the world of culture, media (incl. tech), and finance, are slowly being displaced from high level positions by Asians, esp. the Chinese and East Indians. China alone, at 1.4 billion, has 100 times the global Jewish population, at about 14 million. If top talent is represented by the top 0.1%, then China has 1.4 million people in that category whereas Jews have only 14,000. Moreover, the Chinese are continuing to pour into the U.S., and the West in general. So it’s only a matter of time before the Chinese and Japanese will largely displace the Jews from American universities. I hate to sound like Derb and say that the Ice people (Europeans and East Asians) should become allies to keep the Sun people (incl. Jews since in terms of their personalities, the Middle East and the Jews definitely belong to the Global South) in check. But most people would agree that the Chinese represent a higher ethical level than the Jews. Have there been any Chinese equivalents in the U.S. of monsters like Madoff, Weinstein, and Epstein? If so, I haven’t heard of any. The country would be better off with the ruling class composed mostly of Whites and Chinese rather than Whites and Jews. The Chinese are so much nicer than the Jews, and more conservative at that. (No, I don’t have a Chinese wife!)

    It’s interesting that, as Unz has said, the Jewish achievement in the U.S. is cratering. As far as I could tell, there were no Jews among the Nobel prize winners this year. And, growing numbers of American Jews, incl. among the Nobel laureates, are only half- or one-quarter Jewish. Many Jews realize their pathology (e.g., much higher levels of mental illness and homosexuality), caused partly by extreme inbreeding, and to their credit, in order to improve their genome they marry Aryans and East Asians, i.e., Ice people.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  36. @Anon 2

    ‘There is little evidence that real Jews living on their own are particularly smart. For example,

    (1) They failed to form their own nation when Europe was basically free for the taking in the 7th-8th centuries…’

    That’s an interesting point, but perhaps not a fair one.

    The current state of Israel aside, have Jews ever lived as a discrete, separate nation?

    I think not. Historically, Judaism was always an urban cult — in Jerusalem, Babylon, Alexandria — or the province of a particular social or economic group — the ruling aristocracy among the Khazars, tavern keepers in the Ukraine, whatever. Even historical Palestine was never entirely Jewish. Herod would build the Temple for the Jews in Jerusalem — then he’d be found some place else, building a temple to Baal or whatever. An entirely or even predominantly Jewish state has often existed in the imagination; prior to 1948, it’s questionable if it ever existed in reality

    Jews have almost always existed with reference to a surrounding gentile population — and indeed, have flourished precisely when they were intimately intertwined with that population. The notion of a separate Jewish state may be a contradiction in terms. Perhaps there can’t be an Israel — not in the long term.

    Look at where Jews flourish now. As you note, it is not in Israel where they achieve. The best leave, and go elsewhere — and perhaps that elsewhere is where they belong.

    Among the gentiles.

    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
  37. @AaronB

    ‘… Seriously, Colin, stop it with the Jew hatred already…its unbecoming of someone as smart and talented as you.’

    If only as a mental exercise, you should try defending your position without always falling back on the excuse that ‘it’s all Jew hatred’ — so you can disregard it.

    If somebody, say, starts in on reviling European civilization — well, these days I tend to ignore such drivel entirely. It’s too tedious, and I’ve done it already.

    But if I did bother, I’d come up with something more conclusive than ‘you just hate white people.’ That could well be true — but it’s not a sufficient argument to point that out.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  38. Anon[241] • Disclaimer says:

    Are you sure it’s Jewish guilt? Looking it over, Jews spend 99% of their time accusing someone else (usually whites) of being awful. That’s not guilt, that’s narcissism at its most scheming.

    The only time I can recall Jews attacking Jews is when left-wing Jews attack right-wing Israeli Jews over their behavior towards the Palestinians, and I’ve quite certain the right-wing Jews don’t feel guilty at all about that, and they think their leftwing Jewish accusers are just a pack of boneheads. The leftwing Jews appear to have an agenda of trying to use guilt over Palestine to lever rightwing Jews out of power in Israel, exactly the way leftwing Jews try to use guilt over blacks and Hispanics to lever whites out of power in the US.

    If you feel guilty, your behavior would not be 100 percent aimed at trying to triangulate an attack of A against B, leaving C, namely yourself, out of the whole mess but in a position to benefit from the wreckage after the fight. That’s Iago-level underhanded intent to do harm and not giving a damn about the damage you do. It’s pure evil.

    Jews feel guilty? Nonsense.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  39. Anon 2 says:

    One more thought: if the Jews had formed their own country when Europe
    was wide open for the taking, around 600-700 AD, by having their own farmers
    and warriors, now this New Israel would probably be a medium-sized country with
    a population of 30-40 million people. There would’ve been no Jewish
    genocide and no brutal displacement and mistreatment of Palestinians.
    The world would be a much better place. But to form their own
    country 1400 years ago, the Jews would have had to show bravery,
    something they’ve been proven to conspicuously lack.

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  40. AaronB says:
    @Colin Wright

    Well, here I am making what should be an uncontroversial point that Jews are simply human beings and should be seen in the context of human beings competing and pursuing their self interest, and you’re twisting yourself into pretzels, trying to show me that no, Jews are in fact diabolical devils whose bad behavior is so much worse than the endless massacres and cruelties and torture of Europe or any other people.

    Seems kind of nuts to me.

    What would you call this then, if not anti-Semitism? I’m open to other terms.

    At least you didn’t claim, like Atzmon, that Jews are uniquely evil and we must now investigate Judaism for this unprecedented evil that we must extirpate from the earth ecause the likes of Madoff and the ADL simply cannot be compared to European massacres, tortures, wars.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  41. Anon 2 says:

    There are 1,18 million Jews living in California. Thousands or at least hundreds
    of them should be now risking their lives in helping to fight the apocalyptic fires
    blazing in the state. Where are they? That’s what I’m talking about. Social
    justice requires that the Jews help carry the load by doing hard, dangerous,
    unhealthy work for the sake of all Californians.

    The same in the Middle East – the Jews are nothing special, and so they should
    fight their own wars, not Americans.

    • Agree: Robjil
    • Replies: @Gilad Atzmon
  42. @Anon 2

    But to form their own country 1400 years ago, the Jews would have had to show bravery, something they’ve been proven to conspicuously lack.

    Interesting assessment.

    Is it bravery that was/is lacking, or is it a kind of religious delusion:

    Deuteronomy 6
    …And when the LORD your God brings you into the land He swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, that He would give you—a land with great and splendid cities that you did not build, with houses full of every good thing with which you did not fill them, with wells that you did not dig, and with vineyards and olive groves that you did not plant— and when you eat and are satisfied, be careful not to forget the LORD who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.…

    Joshua Reviews Israel’s History
    Joshua 24:13
    …I sent the hornet ahead of you, and it drove out the two Amorite kings before you, but not by your own sword or bow. So I gave you a land on which you did not toil and cities that you did not build, and now you live in them and eat from vineyards and olive groves that you did not plant.’

    The above suggests the inculcation of belief in entitlement to take what belongs to others in exchange for “not forgetting the LORD.” No mention of respecting the property rights of others — like Trump & Syrian resources.**

    Jews have demonstrated episodically the willingness to fight and kill, but frequently mimick an Assyrian strategy of inciting A to fight and kill B, the enemy of the Jews, rather than to do the deed themselves.

    ** Christians are not immune to this belief, or maybe it’s downright evilness that causes James Jeffrey — Jew or not Jew??? — to harangue Trump to remain in Syria and deprive Syria of resources to rebuild.

  43. frankie p says:
    @AaronB

    “We don’t buy into simple binary thinking like whites do, so remain more intellectually supple and dextrous.”

    Let me fix that for you, Aaron.

    We don’t buy into simple binary thinking like whites do, so remain more supple and dextrous concerning morals, which we find completely unnecessary.

  44. frankie p says:
    @AaronB

    Aaron,

    We need more editing of your statements. You make them sound so milquetoast, like the following:

    “I just said there is a perfectly reasonable type of anti-Semitism that is a natural response to group competition – the actions of Jews themselves.”

    It’s not group competition. If you fessed up to the truth, which is that it’s a natural response to aggressive attacks on the host culture in every way, religiously, morally, economically, politically, racially, gender – we could admit that you were being introspective. However, your wording implies that the behavior and actions of Jews have never been different than the behavior and actions of other ethnic groups. Here is where the majority of the Unzers differ with you, and here is the root of your perceived anti-Semitism. “We’re just doing what everyone else does! Why are you persecuting us for it.” It’s a load of crap. The Jews have never done what other groups have done. They have been more corrosive to countless societies and cultures, and this has resulted in the pogroms and expulsions. Do you actually believe that it’s some kind of genetic tic in all gentile groups?

    • Agree: renfro
    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  45. @AaronB

    I say, ‘resorting to accusations of anti-semitism isn’t a sufficient argument.’

    You respond, ‘What would you call this then, if not anti-Semitism? I’m open to other terms.’

  46. Anonymous[127] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon 2

    Their in-group strategy always favoured and promoted parasitism (which they confuse with genuine supremacy) so they became a very effective parasite. This, naturally, makes them ill-equipped to form their own, genuine, non-parasitic nation.

    The problem with this is that every successful parasite in the natural world is both weaker and completely dependent on their host. The worst part is that the Jews will deliberately, and hatefully, weaken their host instead of just sucking the marrow up to a point of diminishing returns. This, ultimately, makes them the dumbest parasite on the planet. Their “strength” is waning now because it came from the goyim they’re gleefully destroying.

    Just look at Israel. It’s a dysfunctional hellhole whose existence is 100% dependent on the West’s help – while they’re destroying the West with reckless abandon because they’re programmed to hate their hosts.

  47. @Anon

    ‘…Jews feel guilty? Nonsense.’

    They feel apprehensive, then. The point is that the professed fear of anti-semitism isn’t a response to something that actually exists, but that they themselves are aware should exist.

    …although what I notice is that Jews don’t actually give a damn about anti-semitism, per se. There are dozens of utter loons on this board positing a massive, monolithic Jewish conspiracy that obviously isn’t there; a kind of ceaselessly aggressive Borg collective by comparison to which the looming threat of the global Islamic Caliphate is nothing.

    AaronB, Fran, Lyin’ Zion, et al could give a shit about those guys. They ignore them almost completely.

    No, it’s those that go after Israel who draw their screeching howls. Accusations of anti-semitism are used above all as a stick to suppress and intimidate criticism of Israel. It’s a means to an end; like Democrats accusing Republicans of sexual impropriety. They could give a damn about the sex; they’re trying to win elections.

    Similarly with accusations of anti-Semitism. I could posit all Jews were minions of Satan — as long as I was for Israel, AaronB wouldn’t even bother to comment. Indeed, one sees this with Evangelicals. Those folks have some beliefs that are ultimately, to put it mildly, anti-semitic. But Zionists aren’t even curious about that. They’re great guys — they’re for Israel.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  48. @AaronB

    Aaron B you have done a noble job of defending the Jews against this onslaught of sheer dehumanization. The refusal to let Jews be like everyone else, their good, their bad, their ugly.
    Gilad and these commentators want to associate a unique evil that is special to the Jews. This Jew evil that sets the world in a terrible motion. The creators of all bad things for their own greed and gain.

    Preposterous on the surface and intellectually. There is nothing unique to Judaism that causes evil. It was a moment in time when it all took place, in the bronze age when life was very very different. The remaining years we have just been trying to figure out how to deal with what it is all about. Israel was the answer to just leave us the fuck alone. Many understandably have ditched the religion to blend in. Does their evil follow them in their being or does converting get rid of it?

    It is so gut wrenching the magnitude and depth they use to prove their point. On this thread, the commentators and Ron when discussing the Russian revolution, blame of the Jews specifically the death of 100 million people, because there were a lot not all of Jewish Bolsheviks

    No matter that Stalin (these people search thru a microscope for Jew blood or a spot of Yiddish to hang their Jew hatred on) was not Jewish. Does not matter to them. Ron goes on and on.

    Lets move on to the thornier details of what caused the revolution, all the European revolutions.The feudal system set up by Aristocracies. LOOK at the Romanov’s the starvation of the peasant class, next to their opulent lives. The bowing and scraping. None of those rulers were Jews. Their superiority in the fact that they (the kings and queens) were anointed by god.

    The nobility were not jealous of the Jews, they just hated them because they were not Christian and their crown demanded Christian loyalty. They hated the Jews for being Jews. the decadence of Versailles and Marie Antoinette was not a Jewess or Louis a Jew, or any of the crown heads of Europe where the peasant class rose up. To the best of my knowledge none of the rulers of Europe were Jewish.

    The ethnic background of the Bolsheviks is secondary to the ground as it stood to be a peasant back then, that was what started the revolution. The Jews started the middle class, which was a good thing.
    .

    • Agree: AaronB
  49. @Fran Taubman

    The neat thing about Fran’s posts is that comment is usually optional.

    You can say something — or just leave them to stand in all their glory, your thoughts unspoken.

  50. Anonymous[827] • Disclaimer says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Israel was the answer to just leave us the fuck alone.

    Israel would stop existing tomorrow if “left alone” by the shabbos goyim in the West keeping it afloat.

    Besides, aren’t you an old Jewess cat-lady living in a remote Western island? Could you, please, move to Israel and leave us alone before we decide to end this precious friendship?

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  51. @AaronB

    To start with , you fail to understand the article above. I am not in a position to argue what kind of people produce the ultimate criminals. I argue instead that the Jewish fear of antisemitism as reported by the AJC is actually an unconscious collective expression of Jewish guilt to do with a blitz of bad stories and a manifold of bad actors.

    However, I will address your points above. Of course every group has its criminals but only a few groups benefit of their criminals being untouched … In my work I define J power as the ‘power to suppress criticism of J power’… This is exactly what we see from our technology companies, ADL, SPLC, AIPAC…

    Indeed, there is something unique about the ‘bad actors’ we discuss here. It is the magnitude of the scale of their operation and the impunity at its core: Epstein wasn’t just an ordinary peadophile… ..Madoff wasn’t just a clumsy fraudster, look at the Ziocon school, we are not dealing with an ordinary bunch of intellectuals who elaborate on morality in a global epoch, we are dealing instead with a bunch of war mongers who pulled America/ allies into disastrous global conflicts that serve no one except Zion.. You may want to look at this machinery as an organised crime apparatus but then there is also a foreign state in the background.

    I agree with you that from a perspective of gift it is hard to distinguish between the great Jews who contributed to science / technology/ literature and those who excel in criminality. One must believe in one’s ability in order to introduce a scientific paradigm shift, similarly it must take some ‘conviction’ buying an island and making it into a paedophile paradise for America’s political and financial elite. In my work I argue that this form of impunity have something to do with an exceptionalist entitlement, it is embedded in choseness.

    I, by the way, argue that when America was proudly exceptionalist it also produced incredible art , science and technology… not much is left of that great America… you may try to name our 2019 Coltrane, Bird, or Duke,,,

    • Agree: Tusk
    • Replies: @AaronB
  52. @Colin Wright

    Defending Israel nonsense I am going after this.
    Do you read these comments what is said about Jews?

    The problem with this is that every successful parasite in the natural world is both weaker and completely dependent on their host. The worst part is that the Jews will deliberately, and hatefully, weaken their host instead of just sucking the marrow up to a point of diminishing returns. This, ultimately, makes them the dumbest parasite on the planet. Their “strength” is waning now because it came from the goyim they’re gleefully destroying.

  53. @Fran Taubman

    On the contrary, I suggest that the Jewish collective fear of antisemitism, as reported by AJC, is an expression of guilt. Ideally such guilt should have led to self reflection as in the case of Early Zionism from Bernard Lazar, to A.D Gordon to Herzl and even Jabotinsky. But in reality it matures into a form of collective barbarism that threatens the last Athenian pillars in the West.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  54. Anon[200] • Disclaimer says:

    Jewish guilt is an oxymoron. Jews do not know guilt if it hits them in the face. As Alan Dershowitz told us, Jews succeed because of chutzpah, which in English means shameless dishonesty. There is no shame in their dishonesty because Jews believe everything they do is justified, because of the 2,000 year oppression, all the pogroms, the Holocaust. If Jews were capable of introspection, none of those things would’ve happened. Without shame, there is no guilt. Remember, to a Jew, everything they do is justified.

    The sanctification of the Holocaust has reached maniacal proportions. Anything that is compared to the Holocaust is immediately denounced as :”how dare you compare” anti-Semitism. Even the mention of Anne Frank as an analogy of anything is immediately met with a universal outcry from this group. In fact, the mere mention of Anne Frank or Holocaust is immediately denounced as anti-Semitism, doesn’t even matter what you say about it . The oversensitivity is truly unbearable.

    No one can live with the Jews, period. These people need to all go to Israhell, wall themselves off and leave the whole world the fuck alone. America cannot survive as long as Jews are around. They do not believe in shared power, always have to run the show, and tell everyone how to live, what to say, what to think, how to tie their shoes, when to go to the bathroom. Their left wing lunacy coupled with Zionist ambitions, love of money, power, lust, greed, dishonesty, oversensitivity will eventually bring down the whole country, and the world.

  55. nickels says:

    Jew leaders constantly beat the ‘10 days to holocaust’ to garner support for Zionism on the one hand, and to keep Jews from being assimilated on the other.
    It all started in the 70’s, the same time the myth of the holocaust started.

  56. @frankie p

    ‘… However, your wording implies that the behavior and actions of Jews have never been different than the behavior and actions of other ethnic groups…’

    I was contemplating that.

    At least as you put it, I don’t think Aaron’s claim is defensible.

    There are other groups, even ones with beliefs profoundly antithetical to the host culture. Mormons, Amish, Mennonites…

    They avoid trouble — and, as a result, although they are often viewed with hostility and suspicion, they haven’t been persecuted of late. Mormons are always scrupulously correct, if vaguely annoying. The Amish and Mennonites stick to themselves. Most importantly, none of these groups seek to impose their views on the wider culture.

    Can Jews say the same?

    …I find it ironic that I am discussing ‘Jews’ qua Jews. If it were up to me, I wouldn’t — although I would certainly discuss Israel. It’s basically AaronB et al that have forced this conversation upon me, as far as I’m concerned. Hopefully, they enjoy the results.

    • Replies: @Reality Cheque
  57. Anonymous[788] • Disclaimer says:

    No matter that Stalin (these people search thru a microscope for Jew blood or a spot of Yiddish to hang their Jew hatred on) was not Jewish. Does not matter to them. Ron goes on and on.

    No. But Ilya Ehrenburg, Lazar Kaganovich, Trotzki, Lenin and Yagoda; Kurt Eisner, Rosa Luxemburg and Bela Kun. So were Jacob Schiff and Warburg. And 85% of the first generation of the NKVD. The political commissars were mostly Jews and so were the heads of the Gulag system.

    I see one pattern here. An unrelenting, months and years spanning, fanatical crusade to deny all responsiblity and sin of the Jewish people. By you and the people like you. As a continuation of what Mr. Unz has perfectly described as the fact that Jews were some of the greatest mass murderers of the 20th century and Jewish media power has turned them into its greatest victims.

    And as your ilk and your organizations like the ADL censor, deplatform, persecute and hound your opposition with lawfare, you cry “oppression”. As your uncomparable lobby power is able to send the executive of governments to arrest their own citizens on your behalf, you cry “Jews are being persecuted”. As you monopolize the media of the free world and turn it into your singular propaganda outlet, you cry “Jews are vulnerable and exposed”. As your policies murder millions and endanger the people in the countries you live in, you cry “Jewish life is in danger!”

    Jews can do no wrong. It’s all the antisemites fault. They are just haters! Nothing has to do anything with you. Antisemitism is a virus and mental illnes. Judaism is pristine. We are chosen for Tikun Olam! Pure narcissism. You are certainly not the only evil people on this planet, but you sure are evil.

    Slowly I grew…

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  58. Tom Verso says:
    @Oscar Peterson

    I tend to agree about your doubts.

    However, if the Jewish part of the poll were taken at a largely attended national Jewish event where the person would not have to identify themselves as Jews (i.e. it may reasonably be assumed) and they were only asked if they were Democrats and about the war; then the poll may be ‘valid’.

    But, such poll reports are meaningless if not accompanied by methodology. But, again, in a comment section I guess that’s not likely.

    • Replies: @anon
  59. renfro says:
    @AaronB

    What are you talking about. I just said there is a perfectly reasonable type of anti-Semitism that is a natural response to group competition – the actions of Jews themselves.

    Well you are right about the actions of the Jews themselves.
    The anti semitism that arises from group competition is due to how the Jews compete…which is usually by stealing, lying and other deceptions.
    Jews would not be able to compete with gentiles or any others if they had to do so honestly or ethically.

    One of a thousand examples of how Jews have to steal to compete….

    ”The following document case file tracks the first US Free Trade Agreement signed with Israel in 1985. The lobbying battle pitted large US corporations, American industry associations, small fruit and vegetable growers and thousands of individual petitioners against the “American-Israel Chamber of Commerce and Industry, Inc.” and American Israel Public Affairs Committee, or AIPAC.
    American industries were shocked when the FBI began investigating AIPAC for obtaining and distributing the 300 page report containing their trade secrets titled “Probable Economic Effect of Providing Duty Free Treatment for U.S. Imports from Israel, Investigation No. 332-180” in the midst of the negotiations.

    The ITC later confirmed that the Israeli government also obtained the still-classified report. The document contains business confidential trade secrets, market share, inventory, delivery costs, internal production costs and other highly sensitive data US industries submitted under strict confidence to urge the best possible outcome for US businesses.
    https://www.israellobby.org/FTA/

  60. @Anonymous

    ‘…No. But Ilya Ehrenburg, Lazar Kaganovich, Trotzki, Lenin and Yagoda; Kurt Eisner, Rosa Luxemburg and Bela Kun. So were Jacob Schiff and Warburg. And 85% of the first generation of the NKVD. The political commissars were mostly Jews and so were the heads of the Gulag system…’

    Here, what we need is historical research — in the best sense of the term.

    Instead, what we get are blanket denials on the one hand, and the questionable claims of anti-semites on the other.

    In an ideal universe, we could start with a decent English translation of Solzhenitsyn’s Two Hundred Years Together — from what I’ve seen, it’s apparently at least an excellent opening sally in the whole debate.

    But apparently we are to be denied even that — a fact which tends to confirm the anti-semitic paradigm right there. A work by a renowned Nobel Prize-winning writer — and you can’t even read it in English?

    Whatever could that signify?

    Sigh…would somebody just appoint me planetary God-King so we could quit screwing around?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  61. renfro says:

    I suggest that the Jewish collective fear of antisemitism, as reported by AJC, is an expression of guilt

    With due respect…I don’t think it is guilt. Is it guilt or is it disgust and morality that moved you to speak out about Israel and Zionism?

    The first book I read many years ago on Jews, Israel and Zionist was The Question of Zion by Jacqueline Rose who characterized Zionism as a collective mental disorder induced by centuries of Jewish suffering. A number of Jewish psychologist promote that reasoning.
    BUT….this collective mental disorder , a lot of it self induced, really boils down to a ‘Cult’. With the same cult characteristics
    * The group displays excessively zealous and unquestioning commitment to a object, goal or belief and practices it as the Truth, or the Law.
    ‪* Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.
    ‪ *The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself and members .
    ‪ *The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which may cause conflict with the wider society.
    ‪ *The group is not accountable to any authorities.
    ‪ *The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify whatever means it deems necessary.
    ‪ *The leadership induces feelings of shame and/or guilt in order to influence and/or control members. Often, this is done through peer pressure and subtle forms of persuasion.

    The Jewish question or problem and therefore the Israel problem cant be solved ‘nicely’ because there is no way to unbrain wash 9 to 13 million Jews.

    Even if we were to rid ourselves of the leaders of the Jewish/Zionist Fifth Column in the US and take back America’s control of its own foreign and domestic policies we would likely still have the Jewish problem because getting rid of Jewish subverts of our government would be taken by them as anti Semitism once again naturally.
    I see no solution to anti Semitism because too many even ordinary Jews have been lulled into believing they deserve a special status and special rights above that of other citizens and they are always going to complain, demand, petition, accuse, etc for that special status, creating anti Semitism in people who are rightly just plain fed up with their eternal howling and demands.

  62. @Anonymous

    ‘… Besides, aren’t you an old Jewess cat-lady living in a remote Western island? Could you, please, move to Israel and leave us alone before we decide to end this precious friendship?’

    She already announced she was leaving once.

    She ain’t gonna — not until she wins this argument, anyway.

    And even the merits of her cause and her ability to advocate it aside, she ain’t gonna.

    I’ve been on the internet long enough to realize that. So Fran is here, to kick, ignore, pander to, or manipulate as you see fit. Ad eternum. She’s vaguely like the maid in lime-green panties in Catch-22 in that respect.

  63. @Gilad Atzmon

    You know nothing about America, it all is thru the eyes of a European commenting on America.
    Like me talking about Labor and Corbyn.

    Seriously Gilad you are completely wrong about American Jewish guilt. The whole world politically is upside down and confused right is left and left is right.
    Jews are like everyone else, confused. They used to be liberal but…. it is not working to the good of the world.
    Furthermore you have no business talking about Jewish Americans you are the furtherest thing from an American then I can think of, your Athens, Jerusalem shit would last like 5 minutes over hear.
    We are really busy earning a living.
    I keep telling you go to like North Dakota and talk to the Jews there. There is a Chabad house there I know the Rabbi you can crash there if you want.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  64. @AaronB

    ‘What are you talking about. I just said there is a perfectly reasonable type of anti-Semitism that is a natural response to group competition – the actions of Jews themselves…’

    …virtually all of said actions being perfectly reasonable — according to you. Just group competition.

    Oh wait, you mentioned Bernie Madoff. How about, say, those actions that drove the previously rather amiable Lithuanian peasantry into a murderous frenzy in the summer of 1941?

  65. @Fran Taubman

    ‘You know nothing about America, it all is thru the eyes of a European commenting on America…’

    Nu? So you’re from Long Island. What do you know about America?

  66. Anon[200] • Disclaimer says:

    If Jews want to know why people hate them, look no further than the impeachment Schitt show currently going on in DC. Adam Schiff and Jerry Nadler are conducting a kangaroo court questioning all “witnesses” in a dungeon, where only members of the Intelligence Committee are allowed to attend, only 1 person is allowed to take notes, no one is allowed to bring in their phone, an (R) can review the transcript only in the presence of a (D) staff, where they are free to coach witnesses to corroborate their testimonies. All completely unprecedented.

    If the GOP were to do the same, they’d be absolutely crucified by the media. Instead, there is not a peep of questioning from msm, and they dutifully blow up every little “leak” that came out of Adam Schiff’s mouth.

    Meanwhile, I would venture to guess the vast majority of witnesses are deep state Jews, like this POS Alexander Vindman who claimed to have heard everything reported by “Witness #1” in person, and Trump asserting that he was totally putting words in his mouth.

    Mitch McConnell should not even hold a trial in the Senate. There is no justification for legitimizing this farce conducted by Adam Schitt. He is making a mockery out of the whole process. When Trump and Barr take down the deep state, all the Jews in the DNC should be tried for treason, starting with:

    Adam Schiff
    Jerry Nadler
    Debbie Wazzerman-Schultz
    John Bolton
    Chuck Schumer
    Richard Blumenthal
    Diane Feinstein

    • Agree: Robjil
    • Replies: @follyofwar
  67. anon[886] • Disclaimer says:
    @Tom Verso

    Bush continues to remain most popular in Israel even long after USA has rejected him.

  68. Barr says:
    @AaronB

    Jewish should accept this logic and apply to the analysis of Nazi behavior .
    They should apply this understanding of competition for resources to Arab Israeli conflicts instead of turning this as nothing but anti Semitic expression : age old, ingrained , organic , DNA based hatred against Jews fir no reason other than for Jews being Jews .

    Pathetic !

  69. renfro says:

    Another example in the thousands of examples for why it is really hard for even decent people not to despise Jews.
    The Commission for the Preservation of America’s Heritage Abroad. when it was passed was suppose to keep up graves and memorials of fallen US soldiers in Europe…..but it immediately became a Jewish scam with bloated salaries for Jews that didn’t preserve anything but Jewish sites…and even built some new ones….not even laying a single plastic flower on a non Jewish grave.

    ZOA Honored That President Trump Appointed ZOA Chairman Mark Levenson to Prestigious National Post
    https://zoa.org/2019/09/10419025-zoa-honored-that-president-trump-appointed-zoa-chairman-mark-levenson-to-prestigious-national-post
    Zionist Organization of America National President Mort Klein issued the following statement:
    The Zionist Organization of America (ZOA) is very proud to announce that Mark Levenson, Chairman of ZOA’s national board, will be appointed by President Donald Trump to serve as a member of the U.S. Commission for the Preservation of America’s Heritage Abroad.

    Washington scandal exposes politics behind Europe’s Jewish …
    https://www.timesofisrael.com › washington-scandal-exposes-politics-behin…
    Sep 21, 2015 – Head of commission tasked with preserving American heritage abroad comes under fire for ‘extravagant’ income

    Registered Lobbyist Earned $143K Federal Salary for 4-Hour work week at american heritage abroad…
    https://www.govexec.com › oversight › 2015/09
    Sep 10, 2015 – The Commission for the Preservation of America’s Heritage Abroad knew … the hiring of a disgraced former congressman for his lobbying business and … It did not respond to specific questions on Farrow or Johnson’s letter

  70. Exile says:
    @AaronB

    For a group that is so intelligent and talented that it naturally rose to disproportionate wealth and influence, no nepotism required, Jews seem to have learned little from introspection or past mistakes – despite 109 opportunities.

  71. Eric135 says:

    Aaron B: You write, “I think the advantage in Jewish ways of thinking are cultural. We don’t buy into simple binary thinking like whites do, so [we] remain more intellectually supple and dexterous.” I hear statements like this from Jews all the time. Apart from being conceited, they are untrue. In fact, they are outrageously untrue. And preposterous as well. The Jewish contribution to intellect and culture is practically non-existent compared to the contributions of non-Jewish whites. Are you trying to tell us that Plato, Aristotle, Shakespeare, Kant, Hegel, Balzac, Dostoevsky, Mozart, Bach, Michelangelo, Da Vinci, Euclid, Newton, and the other giants of Western Civilization (upon whose shoulders a handful of Jewish writers, composers, scientists and Nobel Prize winners have stood) are merely “binary” thinkers lacking in suppleness and dexterity?

    To suggest something so ridiculous and try to put it over on the “dumb goyim” (many of whom need to be severely chastised for falling for it) is sheer impudence and is the sort of thing that makes people like me hate people like you — especially when Jews are at the forefront of trying to demonize and downgrade “my fellow white people” while never admitting that they are Jewish when they do this.

    This is just one small example of the way in which Jews are offensive to the peoples among whom they live. And yet, I have to agree with you that this does not make Jews evil. It just makes them proud, vain, deluded, arrogant, contemptuous of others, and disloyal to everyone other than themselves.

    Even before Israel came into existence, Schopenhauer said that the Jews were a nation — a nation with the unique ability to infiltrate and rule other nations. It follows that the Jew is a parasite and a Trojan Horse in every nation that he inhabits. History has borne this out — in Spain, the Byzantine Empire, Germany, Russia, England, and now the United States. This is why non-Jews should never allow Jews in their midst.

  72. Wally says:
    @AaronB

    said
    “What Jews object to is not normal criticism, which we engage in ourselves in a very spirited manner, but the singling out of Jewish competitive behavior in the struggle for life as somehow uniquely evil and bad. I won’t even go into the horrific crimes ”

    – It is rather clear the the entire world all through history have a problem with Jews as “uniquely evil”. In fact, Jews have been found to be loathsome by everyone, everywhere, every time.
    see:
    Complete list of Jewish Expulsions / Jews expelled from over 1,000 places in history: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12596

    – You’re right not to “go into” your curious wishful thinking about “horrific crimes” against Jews. You would immediately be shot down.

    recommended
    Myth and the Russian Pogroms, by Andrew Joyce: http://www.unz.com/article/myth-and-the-russian-pogroms/
    American Pravda: Holocaust Denial, by Ron Unz: http://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-holocaust-denial/
    “The Holocaust” Is a Myth That Conceals Our Shame: http://www.unz.com/kbarrett/the-holocaust-is-a-myth-that-conceals-our-shame/
    Teaching Holocaust, Don’t know much about history, by Philip Giraldi: http://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/teaching-holocaust/

  73. Wally says:
    @Oscar Peterson

    – Speaking of polls, the one below * makes it clear that Jew identity is based upon fraud of their own making.

    – And of course there necessarily will be mental health issues when one’s basis of identity is so very fake **.

    * Most Important Part of Being Jewish: Remembering the Fake “Holocaust”: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12425
    ex.:
    ** Does the strong Jew tendency towards mental illness assist in their “holocaust” fantasies? :https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12239

    ** Scientists Discover Gene That Predisposes Ashkenazi Jews to Schizophrenia / Variations of the DNST3 gene make Ashkenazi Jews 40 percent more likely to develop schizophrenia and similar diseases.’: https://www.haaretz.com/.premium-ashkenazi-gene-increases-schizophrenia-1.5294333

  74. The AJC’s statistics point to the possible existence of a comic scenario in which 9 out of 10 Jews are intimidated by the 1 out of 10 Jews who speak out.

    No, it’s more like 90 Jews are Liberal Zionists, 9 Jews are Neocon Zionists, and 1 Jew is like Max Blumenthal or Philip Weiss.

    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
  75. It would be interesting to learn about the correlation between the Jewish fear of anti Semitsm and Jewish guilt. It would also be fascinating to find out how Jewish anxiety translates into self-reflection.

    Actually, Jewish fear of ‘antisemitism’ is what precludes Jewish guilt or conscience. ‘Antisemitism’ means goyim are always wrong and Jews are always right. Thus, Jews never consider the validity of why goyim might be angry with them and just play innocent victim. In order for Jewish conscience to sprout, Jews must do away with the notion of antisemitism that always all-too-conveniently shifts the burden of guilt on goyim. Because goyim are always seen as hostile or potentially dangerous, Jewish conscience is always about what Jews owe to other Jews than to humanity.

    As for Herzl, he wrote prior to the Shoah that understandably made Jews far more defensive and distrustful of goyim. Also, in his time, it was still fair game for Jews and goyim alike to speak critically of Jews.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  76. @Colin Wright

    I didnt mention Bernie Madoff !! So what are you talking about?? Sure you are responding to the right person !! I am responding to the Goyim are stupid line —its annoying ! Its rather pathetic —lets all let the Jew run everything and treat us as ..well Goyim cause well we are stupid !! Its defeatist —Christians and SJWs ARE stupid admittedly but all is not lost —Whites stop being benign –assume the depopulation is already underway and at least realise that what you had always assumed was is no longer ! Get armed get ready and dont ever assume the Jews are smart — criminality often carries the seeds of its own destruction !

  77. jamesc says:
    @AaronB

    Israel has not won any war without US support. The US refused to support the Suez adventure, in 1956, thereby ending that Israeli war before it started.

  78. Svevlad says:
    @ThreeCranes

    But in reality, does it need to?

  79. @Colin Wright

    Last time I looked. Long Island was in the USA.
    I grew up in Baltimore Maryland also in the USA.
    If you have a map I can send you coordinates.
    Gilad is hopelessly stuck in a feudalistic shtetl mode. Looking looking for a way out. Every Jew in Europe should migrate to Israel.
    Not so here. We had Jews on wagon trains crossing the Donner pass.
    We are not guilty we gave nothing to be guilty about. He will fail in his efforts to bring American Jews into his cesspool logic of we are invaders parasites because we are the chosen. A thought process that needs to biologically removed from our being. I bow to king James and only king James. Lebron James.
    We American Jews have nothing to apologize for.
    Gilad has never spent any time in America he needs to get his awful ideas out of here. He should stick to Corbyn and the labor movements anti Semite problem.
    We do not have labor parties here.
    We were all immigrants in America non better than anyone else.
    Jeff the richest man in the world owner of the Washington post. Not a Jew.!!!!

  80. @Colin Wright

    Jeff Bezos the richest man in the world owner of Amazon and the Washington ton post. Not a Jew. We run the world?

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  81. Sigmund Freud said that Circumcision is at the heart of anti-Semitism. And Theodor Herzl did not have his son circumcised.

  82. @Fran Taubman

    Fran….The Amityville Horror was on Long Island…That was a Zionist conspiracy.

    Seriously though, I have Jewish friends from Oyster Bay and I would not say they were rich. Long Island is not a ghetto by any means but it is sort of a middle Jewish America kind of place. Lot’s of boats and bars.

    And Levi Strauss was Jewish. Let us not forget about him. Without his denim fabric, the gold rush would not have been successful.

    Donald Trump is not Jewish. William Buffet is not Jewish. Bill Gates is not Jewish.

    Most of the struggling poor people you would meet around Coney Island like the unfortunate heroin addicts in REQUIEM FOR A DREAM are, in fact, Jewish.

    None of the Texas oil millionaires are Jewish.

    We could go on and on about rich non-Jews.

  83. @Anon

    Mad Dog John Bolton is not a Jew. Michael Bolton is.

  84. AaronB says:
    @Gilad Atzmon

    Ok, so today Jews produce their fair share of bad actors who seem to operate on a more dramatic scale than other bad actors in the contemporary West. Even if true, historically this is still piddling stuff – today’s bad Jews are nothing compared to the historical norm across the world, even until quite recent times. As a Jew, my vanity is almost hurt when I line up today’s bad Jews against the last 500 years of European history. This is the worst we can do? Pathetic. We can’t even match a single grand European crime, like say, the Spanish genocide of the Aztec and Inca, carried out with heartrending duplicity and maximum brutality against a naively trusting and gullible people, for sheer avarice and gold.

    So this whole narrative of Jewish culture producing uniquely bad actors in large quantity has to be dropped for the preposterous and historically illiterate narrative it clearly is. This level of nonsense, while fun for a while, just makes you people seem increasingly absurd.

    Secondly, you object to the fact that Jews enjoy immunity from criticism. OK, but then again taboos and groups shielded from criticism are the historical norm that characterize every society known to man, so nothing special or unique here. Of course, you may still say this is wrong , and I won’t fight you on that, but this idea that if not for Jews, society would be totally free of taboos and protected group is again astonishingly historically illiterate – its even illiterate about basic human nature and contemporary societies.

    So again, no problem with calling out this aspect of today’s society, but going off into these metaphysical speculations about the eternal evils of the uniquely bad Jewish culture and religion – dumb and illiterate.

    What is actually happening today is far more prosaic – in the West, Jews are the last segment of society that retains some energy and vitality, or the most vitality at any rate. Whites neutered themselves, or got bored with ambition and effort. After 500 years, European civilization became decadent, which is quite natural. The current spurt of Jewish energy will hardly last forever either. So the most ambitious and energetic group with the most self-confidence in the West will produce more bad actors and grab more power and leadership positions, as well as more people that benefit society in various ways.

    But you seem to agree with this last point, which is good. You say that when white America was self-confident and energetic, it also made great contributions to the world in various areas, but at the same time, it exterminated the Indians and lied to them, it started all sorts of wars with Spain and the Phillippines, simply seized land that belonged to other countries, had a devastating Civil War, produced Robber Barons and a Gilded Age and huge inequality, etc, etc.

    And this is because a quantum of energy must flow out in negative and positive directions. We cannot completely control it. And vast human energy is stored up through connection with nature, and since Europeans have gradually been cutting themselves off from nature and trying to control it through logic, they have been drying up the sources of their vitality and becoming admirably abstract and neutered. Jews have not been cutting themselves off from nature and the “natural man” to quite the same extent. But this is already beyond the scope of this topic and I am venturing into my wooly headed notions.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @Gilad Atzmon
  85. AaronB says:
    @AaronB

    Oh, and about the whole Jews can’t be criticized thing, that’s an unfortunate but understandable reaction to the extreme anti-Semitism that is so common. It makes Jews hyper-sensitive to even sensible criticism since they know that there are people and forces that want them completely destroyed, their culture completely eradicated, and Israel completely crushed. There is a concerted movement on unz.com to literally blame very negative historical thing in any part of the world – even India and China – on Jews. What people, if it had the power, would NOT try and stop this? The anti-Jewish forces wouldn’t try and make their desires into law if they could? BDS wouldn’t excitedly pass into law their policies to destroy Israel if only they had the power? Every aggressive reaction will provoke a self-defensive reaction.

    If the dominant form of criticism was the reasoned and sane version of Beloc and Chesterton, the taboo against criticizing Jews would never have evolved. It would be like criticizing Italy – people don’t want to completely destroy Italy.

    But so much anti-Semitism is unhinged and extreme, that it is a perfectly natural reaction for Jews to try and nip it in the bud. Nobody wants to completely destroy Italy – but tons of people want to completely destroy Israel. Nobody wants to completely destroy Spanishness and Spanish people – but plenty do Jews.

    Is this right? Should Jews do this if they have the power? My own opinion is probably not – but it is also perfectly understandable, and a self-defensive reaction – if over-reaction – to people who want to utterly extirpate them and their culture.

  86. @Fran Taubman

    I bow to king James and only king James. Lebron James.

    Credit where credit is due.
    That made me smile.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  87. @AaronB

    “Ok, so today Jews produce their fair share of bad actors who seem to operate on a more dramatic scale than other bad actors in the contemporary West…”

    Aaron, can you please make up your mind whether we are dealing with ‘fair share’ or ‘dramatic scale’ as this is at the core of the the guilt neurosis we try to discuss here .

  88. PPB says:
    @AaronB

    “Jews always ally themselves with the rulers and higher classes, as a survival strategy, and also because their talents naturally place them in the higher classes.”

    But such alliance, necessity aside, can be a double-edged sword, depending on the moral integrity of the rulers and higher classes involved. A bit of discernment could be in order there, but such discernment is usually a trait of individuals, not of broad demographic groups. Likewise with the high levels of talent found among many individual Jews— the motives from which, and ends towards which, such talents are directed can be the determining factor in whether the PR value of such talents emerges net positive or net negative in the broader public perception of Jews. However, as your later observations demonstrate, none of these considerations pertain uniquely to Jews, as we’ve all got our angels and devils (we have met the enemy, and he’s out there somewhere).

    What I do find curious, however, is your comment that “Europeans were/are uniquely frustrated and unhappy with existence”. To whatever extent it’s true, might this not be a reflection of the fact the European cultures are generally bit more mentally active (as opposed to existentially-focused) than most other broadly-based cultural sectors? With the binary dynamic of mentation generating an opposition, and therefore internal tension, that registers at an emotional level as one of dissatisfaction?

    But, if that’s the case, my own experience suggests that this mentally-based dissatisfaction is no less characteristic of Jews (broadly speaking) than it is of Europeans (broadly speaking). However, as burdensome as such a tendency might be, might not this tension also provide the capacity for a level of resolution less easily obtained by those whose more existentially-embedded existence still holds this tension unconscious?

    So on the upside, I don’t see either Europeans or Jews as eternally condemned to living within an Ingmar Bergman movie or Philip Roth novel 🙂

    • Replies: @AaronB
  89. @SolontoCroesus

    Thanks Solonto. Glad I could make you smile

  90. @Priss Factor

    ‘…Because goyim are always seen as hostile or potentially dangerous, Jewish conscience is always about what Jews owe to other Jews than to humanity…’

    One thing that has often struck me is that while one will hear aggrieved complaints about how little, say, Ukrainian gentiles did to help Ukrainian Jews during the Holocaust, one never hears any reflections about how little Ukrainian Jews did to help Ukrainian gentiles during, say, the Stalinist famine.

    It always seems to be a one-way street. Gentiles should feel obliged to help Jews, and considerate of their sensitivities. Jews need never fret about the welfare of gentiles, or concern themselves with respecting gentile sensibilities. In fact, aren’t gentiles ridiculous, and don’t they deserve everything they get?

    Perhaps I exaggerate — but there is a grain of truth in the above.

    • Agree: Kolya Krassotkin, Ace
  91. @Gilad Atzmon

    ‘…Aaron, can you please make up your mind whether we are dealing with ‘fair share’ or ‘dramatic scale’ as this is at the core of the the guilt neurosis we try to discuss here .’

    I doubt if he could ‘make up his mind’ — not and still have anything to say. Without looking at it too carefully, I imagine that if Aaron doesn’t equivocate, his argument vanishes.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  92. @AaronB

    ‘Oh, and about the whole Jews can’t be criticized thing, that’s an unfortunate but understandable reaction to the extreme anti-Semitism that is so common…’

    Doink. I just demonstrated that anti-semitism is less prevalent in the US than other forms of bigotry.

    …yet, mysteriously, Aaron feels Jews are uniquely entitled to have an ‘unfortunate’ reaction.

    What about the rest of us? Logically, we would be entitled to be even more defensive and less willing to engage in self-criticism.

  93. CNN CEO Zucker and other agents of filth and disinformation bear a large degree of responsibility for ‘anti-semitism’, ie. the healthy reaction of any society to the action of a nation of destroyers.
    Jews should feel guilty. Real guilty.
    Then they should leave for Israel and never come back.
    Good riddance.

  94. @Colin Wright

    What Holocaust?
    Again Wright, you just can’t keep from propagating lies.
    Prove that an event occurred. Basic science. The proof is laughable, as are you.

    • Troll: Fran Taubman
  95. AaronB says:
    @PPB

    Yes, allying with elites certainly poses certain risks, but everything poses risks. Life is risky. I don’t think these strategies are consciously chosen, humans aren’t such calculating rational machines. People may have a general goal in mind, or certain values, and then adapt to shifting circumstance. Remember Jews were quite limited in what they could do in Europe – dealing with money was an absolutely necessary and invaluable part of society that many were unwilling to do. An opportunity presented itself. Jews seized it. All the consequences that flowed from that could not have been foreseen, and there may not have been better options.

    Jews in Muslims lands remained much more connected to craftsmanship and physical pursuits and the land, although they too had a strong and prosperous merchant community and were heavily into medicine and scholarship.

    As for Europeans being uniquely unhappy, at least for the past millenia, this is a very large and important subject that really bears on all the strange phenomena we are experiencing today and general world history. It’s one of the most important topics in the world.

    Much could be written on it, but at the risk of extreme oversimplification I would posit that sometimes around the turn of the last millenium, Europeans cut themselves off from nature and developed consciousness and the sense of a separate ego to an extreme degree. It was a gradual process and was not completed overnight. In fact it is still not finished.

    And yes, this did generate tension that was felt as dissatisfaction that had to be “resolved”, and led to the constant dynamic change in Western culture – the pursuit of elusive happiness in the material realm.

    Has this led to a higher level of resolution? I think for several centuries it led to a dynamic balance that was the source of the West’s creativity, but in recent times with the consolidation of technology we have shifted almost entirely to the pole of reason and logic, and have completely lost sight of the opposite pole of nature and the unconscious, resulting in the extreme dysfunction and loss of energy and vitality the West is now experiencing, and the wave of anxiety and depression we are feeling.

    The question must be asked was there any value at all in the West’s development of extreme self-consciousness, and could it have been a step in a higher resolution, and can it yet be. And I suppose I would answer yes, in two ways. One, the story of the prodigal son encapsulates the idea perfectly – you only fully appreciate something fully after you have lost it and returned to it. T.S Eliot said after all our wandering we will return to our beginning and appreciate it for the first time.

    Humanity had to make the experiment of an extreme development of self-consciousness in order to return to an enriched sense of connection with nature and the unconscious and realize its utter dependence on things outside its control.

    And secondly and a variation on the theme, going from state where connection to nature is the default that one is scarcely aware of it – the Garden of Eden, paradise – isn’t on the same level as being connected to nature after having lost that connection, knowing that one could sever that connection.

    (I take it as a given, that most of our technological toys have little value in themselves, and amount merely to making life more convenient or easy, a negligible goal. What mankind was really after in technology was absolute and complete control of its environment, to be as Gods, banishing fear and death forever. Not mere labor saving devices. But this depends on the metaphysic that man is an isolated ego set against the hostile universe, which all the sages have denied.)

    Finally, as for Jews having a similar sense of disconnection from nature. Yes, but much less than what arose in Christian Europe. And moreover, modern Judaism with its sources in mysticism and Hasidism has gone a long way towards healing this breach and restoring to Judaism a sort of lost innocence. Jews today strike me as much more comfortable with themselves, with their total humanity, and more accepting of themselves, and much more accepting of life in all its aspects. For instance, evil is not an independent force as it is in Christianity, but has its place in creation and is a servant of God – too long to get into here. But this calls to mind the Eastern conception of non-duality with its reconciling of opposites and total acceptance of life and self.

    • Agree: Fran Taubman
    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  96. @AaronB

    ‘… There is a concerted movement on unz.com to literally blame very negative historical thing in any part of the world – even India and China – on Jews…’

    BIG chutzpah points for Aaron!

    This is from the same guy who literally defined modern gentile Europe as the quintessence of global evil everywhere. See his theories regarding the the enlightenment et al. In fact, he was so outraged he decided he could no longer be white. European gentiles — that is to say, white people — are the source of all evil in the world. It’s a perfectly reasonable remark.

    But should people say anything similar about Jews — oh, the horror, the moral outrage felt by our Aaron.

  97. AaronB says:
    @Gilad Atzmon

    Ok, in historical terms Jews produce no more bad actors than other peoples – to put it mildly. One could easily argue they produce less and less bad ones, but I am quite prepared for the sake or argument here to merely claim equality here in badness. So historically, only their fair share.

    In the contemporary West, Jews produce a disproportionate number of bad and good actors, because it is the only community in the West with any energy left, for good or evil.

    In any given period of history, any one people may produce more or worse bad actors than another – although some of it may only have to do with opportunity. That is why it is crucial to look at history before making any conclusions about the “essence” of any culture or religion.

    Its easy to create a hugely distorted picture if one looks at just a brief historical snapshot of a culture or people – and I could easily frame a grave indictment of Spain by looking at it in the 16th century or Japan in the early 20th that would be a caricature of those cultures.

  98. @Fran Taubman

    ‘@Colin Wright
    Jeff Bezos the richest man in the world owner of Amazon and the Washington ton post. Not a Jew. We run the world?’

    Perhaps you can explain how this relates to anything I said.

  99. @Gilad Atzmon

    It is a snap shot Gilad. At any point in time it changes. Some time spans it is “Fair share”. Sometimes it is “Dramatic scale”. It is not an asteroid. It is human behavior.
    Who the fuck cares. No special neurosis involved. Muslims like Al Bagdadi weren’t always interested in raping their women prisoners before beheading in the name of religious purity and then blame their behavior on infidels.
    This snapshot of Arab Muslim culture where we have to send dogs into tunnels to hunt these violent people down is not an accurate reflection of Arab Muslim culture although a deep deep neurosis exists in Islam where it is their way or the highway.

    That neurosis needs to be fixed ASAP before all Yazidi Christians are exterminated.

    • Replies: @frankie p
    , @Colin Wright
  100. @Colin Wright

    I am telling you Colin. Gilad is grasping at straws. He
    Is googling the Donner Pass as we speak. Trying to figure out what a covered wagon is. He’s your man on American Jew hatred and Jewish guilt.?
    What accurate journalist would write about Jewish control of education for silencing criticism of Israel where the main feature is the UNC Gaza conference where he has never been ? Never interviewed a Jewish student attending that conference
    I don’t know about you but I am after the truth. I know what went on in that conference. A rap singer inviting Jew haters to join in his singing. That was his invite. Nothing to do with criticism of Israel.
    This was not a public concert. This was at an American university.
    Gilad is lacking in factual information. And he should stop writing about America.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @DaveE
  101. PPB says:
    @AaronB

    “In the contemporary West, Jews produce a disproportionate number of bad and good actors, because it is the only community in the West with any energy left, for good or evil.”

    If that’s true, how does this vitality and activity differ from the European spirit which you characterized earlier as ” uniquely addicted to trying to control its environment (which ended up in science and technology)? ”

    Granted that Europeans have also given us a significant number of both good and bad indivisual actors, as well as destructive collective movements. Possibly one reason that Jews haven’t been guilty of the latter is that they simply didn’t have the demographic weight or geographical unity required for such. No Spanish Armadas, German Wehrmacht, Napoleonic Megalomaniacs or Mongol Hordes, in other words. The same could be said for any other population possessing the same numbers and distribution.

    Or, if Jews are still the only community in the West with any energy left, for good or evil, is that perhaps partially due to the fact that they have a stronger sense of being a community than most other ethnicities do? Or maybe they’re motivated by a greater underlying restlessness, a need to resolve a tension within their own being (again having both positive and negative consequences)? As bizarre a negative obsession as I find antisemitism to be, I’m also puzzled at times by the strength of the fixation that many Jews have on their own collective identity— from the perspective of someone who doesn’t invest any preeminent value in his own ancestral heritage, while still acknowledging and in many ways respecting the ways in which he’s been molded by it.

    Anyway, these are just some thoughts … more an expression of uncertainty wishing to be clarified than any sort of positive statement.

  102. @AaronB

    So true we are accepting that there are no answers. Certainty no rational answers at their point in time. Rational thinking and secularism has been a huge disappointment and in many ways made things much worse. Cultural Relativism? Not all cultures are good. Selection is inevitable.

    Jews are content with the search. All the rituals augment and help in the search like a flashlight, it is satisfying to try and connect with the divine if one thinks about it as a current of electricity, with no resolution to what it all means.

    You are correct Hasidism Jews are okay wearing their Jewishness on the outside. No more embarrassment. The enlightenment did nothing. Solved nothing

    Laugh at us. Accuse us. Blame us. We don’t care. We do not need to empty our pockets out to prove we are not thieves. You viewpoint will not change. We are hardened and bullet proof. We have seen this movie many many times. Gilad thinks we are scared. We are not. Secularism (secular Zionism that Gilad is so fond of) in Israel is dead. He thinks it is a tragedy all of Athens is lost. It is up to the religious to control and protect the country. Gilad is correct in that Hertzl is a remnant of all that was with Jews hiding who and what they were. So is Gilad. Especially here in America.

    What else in the world is working.? Faith, rituals and searching do not look so bad. At least we are not making snuff films.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  103. anon[299] • Disclaimer says:

    This snapshot of Arab Muslim culture where we have to send dogs into tunnels to hunt these violent people down is not an accurate reflection of Arab Muslim culture – – –

    “not an accurate reflection of Arab Muslim culture” because Baghdadi is very likely Jewish.


    Donner Pass — where folks cannibalized their mates when the wagon trains got trapped in the snow? Who ordered the Kosher shoulder on a bagel?

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  104. @AaronB

    ‘Ok, in historical terms Jews produce no more bad actors than other peoples – to put it mildly…’

    Lol. Seriously: I really did laugh out loud when I read that.

    You just can’t resist, can you? Jews are better…maybe just a teeny bit better — but better.

    …actually, they’re a whole lot better, aren’t they? Come on, don’t be shy. Strut your stuff.

  105. @Fran Taubman

    ‘I am telling you Colin. Gilad is grasping at straws. He
    Is googling the Donner Pass as we speak. Trying to figure out what a covered wagon is. He’s your man on American Jew hatred and Jewish guilt.?’

    …I’m still trying to work out how this relates to anything I said.

  106. @AaronB

    ‘… I could easily frame a grave indictment of Spain by looking at it in the 16th century or Japan in the early 20th that would be a caricature of those cultures.’

    Spain’s actually rather proud of their Sixteenth Century. Look up the ‘Siglo del Oro’ or whatever it was.

    First in war, first in peace, first in the service of Jesus, I suppose. Something like that. Anyway, great paintings, their literature (though I won’t claim much direct acquaintance with that), victory over the Turks, saints, and of course unprecedented explorations and conquests. Some truly epic moments and figures. The sole surviving ship from Magellan’s expedition triumphantly limping back into Seville, Saint Teresa, Murillo, Lepanto, Pizarro…

    All peoples should have to bear such a burden of guilt. And hey: it was definitely before the enlightenment. If you knew what you were talking about in the first place, you’d be all for it.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @Colin Wright
    , @AaronB
  107. renfro says:
    @Fran Taubman

    We were all immigrants in America non better than anyone else.

    Actually we are not all immigrants. The native Indian Americans and the settlers who were here before there even was a nation couldn’t be considered immigrants.
    And some immigrants are definitely better than others.

  108. utu says:
    @Colin Wright

    If you knew what you were talking about in the first place…

    He does not. His chronology is random. Once he blamed European philosophers for ‘corrupting’ Spinoza but he forgot to check that the philosophers he listed were born after Spinoza’s death.

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/france-as-epicenter-of-fertility-transition/#comment-3280368

    Men like Voltaire, Rousseau, Diderot, Montesquie, David Hume… Their earliest victim was a promising Jewish scholar who might have done great things in the spiritual realm, Baruch Spinoza.

    Spinoza died in 1677. Montesquie was born in 1689. Voltair was born in 1694. Hume in 1711. Rousseau in 1712. Diderot in 1713.

    So how did their bad influence on Spinoza work. I am sure in the pre-Enlightenment Jewish science this is possible but perhaps you and your rabbi would care to explain it to us the victims of Enlightenment. And tell us, should we pay the reparation for Spinoza victimization and would you qualify to get a cut?

    See his response. No shame. Pure chutzpah.

  109. DaveE says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Gilad doesn’t “grasp” at straws. He puts straws between his lips and manipulates their vibrations to make some very expressive sounds, arranged imaginatively, that most people call “music”. Very sophisticated music, as well, of the kind invented by “dumb American Blacks” as Chosenites like you love to call them.

    Another thing Gilad does VERY well: Exposing the Jewish psychotic disease for all to see. Words can’t really describe the vile pathology of unbridled arrogance displayed by creatures like you, but Gilad comes pretty close by simply letting you run your arrogant mouths.

    Nice work, as usual, Gilad. Thanks again.

    • Replies: @Gilad Atzmon
  110. frankie p says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Fran,

    So you attack Gilad as not having the FACTS, and then in the next breath you call the Yazidi Christians… Okay…

    • LOL: Colin Wright
    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  111. anonymous[299] • Disclaimer says:

    At least we are not making snuff films.

  112. renfro says:
    @AaronB

    Its easy to create a hugely distorted picture if one looks at just a brief historical snapshot of a culture or people –

    That is true and a huge failing of the Jews
    Because of their obsession with them selves they see any little thing about Jews in history as some important event…..when in reality Jews were but a grain of sand on the shore in the march of civilization.

    The histories of ME countries barely or not at all even mention Jews…..not the history of Egypt or Rome or Persia or Iran or Greece etc…
    Jews get their overblown ideas about the importance of Jews from books written by and about Jews…..that try to make Jews into people of importance…and it doesnt match real history.

    That is also what happens in articles like this one. A Jew writing about Jews.
    It also happens in other articles that aren’t about Jews, someone or a troll brings up Jews and the thread becomes all about Jews.

    The only important thing note worthy about Jews in history or the present is how they have always been hostile to others and subverted governments/rulers against the interest of their own citizens. Aside from that Jews are of no importance to the world.

    We must keep Jews in the proper perspective .

    • Agree: Fran Taubman
    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  113. @Fran Taubman

    ‘…What else in the world is working.? Faith, rituals and searching do not look so bad. At least we are not making snuff films.’

    Wouldn’t that depend on how you define Israel?

    I’d say for American Jews like you, Israel works as kind of a giant, multi-decade snuff film. You don’t have to move there — but you can watch it and enjoy it.

    Come on, admit it: you like the frisson of realizing all the killing’s real, don’t you? And it’s all being done by Jews. Does it make your heart swell with pride?

  114. @renfro

    ‘Because of their obsession with them selves they see any little thing about Jews in history as some important event…..when in reality Jews were but a grain of sand on the shore in the march of civilization.’

    This can be true. I recall checking the index of my all-too-exhaustive (997 page) history of the Thirty Years War. There were only two references to Jews — both passing.

  115. @anonymous

    Good stuff, huh, Fran?

    …it’s definitely a snuff film, too. You can’t deny that.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  116. Adrian says:

    AaronB. remarked that Israel had won its main wars without outside help and Colin Wright has already put him right on that – repeatedly I understand. But I would like here to add some details that are totally overlooked in the Wiki on the relevant US operation during the Yom Kippur War, “Nickel Grass”. That Wiki mentions only Portugal as providing an airbase (in the Azores) for the refuelling of American planes transporting weapons and munition to Israel. But the other country doing so was the Netherlands. It provided its airbase Gilze Rijen for the same purpose.

    And not only that. When the war took a critical turn for Israel the then Dutch Minister of Defence, Henk Vredeling, was approached in deep secrecy by the Israel ambassador in the Hague with a request for the delivery of badly needed spare parts. Another Wiki, that on relations between the Netherlands and Israel specifies: “primarily engines, spare parts, and shells for its British-built Centurion tanks after the British government had imposed an arms embargo on Israel and thus cut off Israel’s original source for this material, but also parts and munitions for light AMX tanks, artillery ammunition, and aircraft bombs”.

    Henk Vredeling, a parliamentarian for the Dutch Labor party of long standing, had only recently been requested to take on this defence portfolio. He had accepted it with some reluctance because he was an agricultural engineer by background, rather ignorant about military affairs and moreover, as he declared, “allergic to uniforms”. But he was also from an evangelical background (even though at that stage no longer a believer) and had, as a young man, played a role in the Dutch resistance. He was convinced that if help was not offered there could be another holocaust. So he took the decision to provide assistance all on his own, without informing the cabinet, or even the Prime Minister (at that stage the socialist Dr. Joop den Uyl who had a similar background). In a later interview he explained that by saying: You knew him . He would have dithered at least a day and time was of the essence.

    It was supposed to be all a deep secret but not so secret that the Arab states hadn’t got wind of it. So Holland was singled out, with the US, for the oil boycot. It resulted in a period of carless Sundays in which the kids could roller skate on the highways.

    Would a present day Dutch Minister of Defence take on a similar role? I doubt it. He would, in all likelihood, date from long after the war but, more importantly, he would have to do with an Israel that has largely lost its lustre in Dutch eyes – though it is presumably still more popular there than in most other European countries. The Netherlands now has an ex – Prime Minister, the now 88 years old christian-democrat Andries van Agt, who is an activist for the Palestinian cause and founded in 2009 the so-called “Rights Forum” to that end. He was joined there by the ex-Ministers of Foreign Affairs Hans van den Broek (who was also a European Commissioner for International Relations) and Hans van Mierlo. I heard the former once coolly say to an opponent: “you don’t know the files”. Yes that is it. Those who “do know the files” can only come to one conclusion: Israel has made itself into a pariah state or one that, at least, deserves to be so.

    • Replies: @renfro
  117. Anonymous[289] • Disclaimer says:
    @Colin Wright

    Ok boomer.

    You can look up anyone I named and the number from Putin himself. And we have perfect historical research. David Irving. Jewish power destroyed him. Unz wrote about it himself.

    There is no debate. There is the persecution of truth by organized Jewry as they cry antisemitism.

    I am sick of it. I am sick of them and their lies.

    And this is for Gilad freely quoted from Ryan Dawson: There’s been a lot of racism and violence in history. But never before has the oppressor and killer claimed to be the victim.

    This has never been more true today as the ADL purges anyone critical of them from Jewish owned media monopolies. As the IDF snipes Palestinian kids.

    But it’s too late. They cant shut it down anymore. Too many know. The truth is out and growing into a tide. Just now the groyper revolt at TPUSA has shown that the young are ready to fight their oppressors.

    The goys are back in town.

    • Replies: @renfro
  118. @Colin Wright

    Now this is interesting — and it relates to several points I’ve made in this thread.

    ‘… Teresa Sánchez de Cepeda y Ahumada was born in 1515 in Ávila, Spain. Her paternal grandfather, Juan Sánchez de Toledo, was a marrano or Converso, a Jew forced to convert to Christianity or emigrate…’

    I suppose it would be the ultimate example of an assimilated Jew contributing to the wider civilization. Sort of one-ups Spinoza, Einstein, et al.

    Now, had her grandfather opted to emigrate rather than convert, any granddaughter would presumably have been born a Moroccan Jewess — and wouldn’t have made any perceptible contribution to anything at all.

    • Replies: @Adrian
  119. @Fran Taubman

    ‘… although a deep deep neurosis exists in Islam where it is their way or the highway….’

    As opposed to who?

  120. @frankie p

    My bad. But not the same as what Gilad is doing factually. It would be like if I claimed that I knew why jihadist wanted to kill Yazidis or more why the Yazidis are hated, what they do to deserve to be considered for extermination.

  121. @Colin Wright

    As always you are on the wrong side of the horror. Snuff film not us.
    More like Jihadis sending Gaza children to the Israel/ Gaza border and hold them up to be shot.
    Warning after warning to stay away from the border, and these peaceniks take their kids there for a picnic.
    Shoot um they say and then film it. So we can say what killers the Jews are.
    How cynical is that?

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  122. @anonymous

    Anonymous (299).
    Why don’t you try going up to a border fence in Europe beyond what the warning boundary is and see what happens to you? Or better yet Russia, if you are Chechen.

    Better yet why don’t you try hanging out in the border “area” of lets say Iran and see what happens to you. Worse then being shot like innocent hikers you might end up in prison for the rest of your life.

    This story is such horseshit. Forgive me. This is a set up, a play. It is Jihadi theater. Jihadist are deliberately baiting Israel to shoot them, with their “peaceful” plan to flood and cross the border in protest. They have stated that is their goal. Imagine letting them all in. What do you propose Israel do to protect their citizens?

    Gaza’s have been told to stay on the other side. I love where the Al Jezera guy says “The buffer zone is not under international law” oh really? Ever country sets up their own boundary.

    1000’s of acres of Israel farmland been burnt and destroyed, as part of the peaceful protest. People have lost homes and farms.

    So cynical these Jihadist send children and nurses to the border and say go ahead shoot a woman a child and yeah film it.

    Stay away from the border and you will not get hurt. Try and run into Israel and like any country, the military will defend itself. Israel tries not to kill people, most countries would shoot to kill.
    You got the producers of the snuff films wrong. Israels have no desire to harm people. Jihadist love it.

  123. @Fran Taubman

    ‘…Shoot um they say and then film it. So we can say what killers the Jews are.
    How cynical is that?

    So, Fran…

    Diid you watch the video?

  124. @Fran Taubman

    ‘… You got the producers of the snuff films wrong. Israels have no desire to harm people. Jihadist love it.’

    So, Fran…

    Did you watch the video?

    • Replies: @anon
  125. Adrian says:
    @Colin Wright

    You remarked of the Spanish patron saint, Teresa of Avila:

    “Now, had her grandfather opted to emigrate rather than convert, any granddaughter would presumably have been born a Moroccan Jewess — and wouldn’t have made any perceptible contribution to anything at all.,”

    But of Spinoza exactly the opposite can be said. Had his father, Michael, who was born in Portugal , become a marrano and not moved to Amsterdam, it is unlikely we would know of Spinoza today. He required the freedom of the early Dutch republic, that was during part of his youth still engaged in its 80-year war with Spain, to become who he was, as was also the case with Descartes.

    As far as Spinoza is concerned it can also be argued of course that his father.s only merit in his case was that he had migrated. Him being part of the Jewish community of Amsterdam did not exactly help his son, because that community wanted him dead. I understand that not all that long ago there was a more or less official inquiry into the grounds for his excommunication. Its conclusion was that they were still valid. It is therefore rather strange that others want to claim him as a Jewish philosopher.

  126. anon[299] • Disclaimer says:
    @Colin Wright

    it’s a shame those kids got their legs blown apart.
    with their skill in running into bullets they could have had a great future in soccer.

  127. @anon

    ‘it’s a shame those kids got their legs blown apart.
    with their skill in running into bullets they could have had a great future in soccer.’

    May it happen to your children.

    • Replies: @anon
  128. @Fran Taubman

    ‘Why don’t you try going up to a border fence in Europe beyond what the warning boundary is and see what happens to you? ‘

    The sheer dishonesty of that is infuriating.

    Maybe you’re a Hamas operative engaged in black propaganda?

  129. @anonymous

    Anyway, it would appear the Jew who committed that murder got a month in jail.

    ‘JERUSALEM — An Israeli soldier who shot and killed a plainly unarmed Palestinian boy during mass protests along the Gaza border fence last year has been sentenced to a month in military prison and demoted.’

    I suppose it was posting the video with the cheering that did it. It’s unusual for a Jew in Israel to be punished that severely for killing a Palestinian. In fact, punishment at all is rare; witness the baby barbecue.

    …but no fear. I’d be mildly surprised if the killer actually has to stay behind bars or anything.

  130. @anon

    I think you mean baseball. Their pitching skills could give the Cubans a serious run for their money.

  131. @Colin Wright

    You are so dishonest Colin you don’t give a rats ass about the Palestinians, if it was another Arab killing those children you would not blink an eye.
    You just hate Jews. The story is so complicated over there there is no moral straight line.
    You crying your eyes out for the Muslims in Camps in China?

    ‘Why don’t you try going up to a border fence in Europe beyond what the warning boundary is and see what happens to you? ‘

    What is so dishonest about that statement it is true. Remember the Berlin Wall? Try crossing that.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  132. @anon

    “not an accurate reflection of Arab Muslim culture” because Baghdadi is very likely Jewish.

    Are you the poster child for blame it all on the Jews? Seriously Baghdadi is Jewish?
    Do you have any proof of that? I mean he seemed like a devout muslim to me.

    • Replies: @anon
  133. @Colin Wright

    Whoops. Different killing. As far as I know, the murderer being congratulated in the posted video hasn’t been punished at all.

  134. @DaveE

    Tx Dave … it is fascinating to see that my existence here triggers the entire spectrum of tribal psychosis…. someone should explain the Zionists here that ‘others are also bad’ isn’t exactly a claim for innocence it is actually an admission in guilt …

    • Agree: Twodees Partain
    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
    , @AaronB
  135. anon[299] • Disclaimer says:
    @Colin Wright

    that was snark directed at the Tubman, Colin.
    the jewish pos who fired the bullets are blameless, dontya see; it’s the kids running into the bullets that have murderous intent.

    btw, the Tubman thing doesn’t have children, perhaps a blessing and an explanation for his/her/its psychopathy.

    I do have children, and they know which end of a gun is the working end. they’re getting guns for Christmas. and 6-point stars to practice their aim.

  136. Kikl says:

    What an interesting idea. They fear antisemitism, because of a guilt complex? Would these Jews be antisemitic if they were non-jews? They secretly say to themselves, yes.

    I always thought that the fear of antisemitism is a product of their education. 1. Goyim are evil, proof : the Holocaust. 2. You cannot trust the Goyim, see above… Finally, we are gods chosen people, the Goyim are beneath us, sub-jewish.

    True antisemitism does exist and appears to follow the Jews like a virus. But how can you love a people that looks down upon you? That’s the simple explanation for antisemitism.

    I am not saying that all Jews have learned this attitude, but a considerable number of Jews learn to despise the gouyim and shiksas…

    Instead of focusing on antisemitism, the Jews should make statistics regarding anti-goyism among Jews. Both antisemitism and anti-goyism are bad attitudes.

  137. @Gilad Atzmon

    As you once said to me cut the crap. Did you go back to grade school to find:

    a claim for innocence it is actually an admission in guilt …

    That would be like me pointing out that you are in fact a Jew. Your rantings disqualify your Jew hatred. You actually hate yourself. Psychotic maybe or neurotic behavior no?

    Defense against slander is actually good jurisprudence. Weren’t you sued for trying to defame someone with this stuff? You do not get off slandering people by saying that their defense is actually their guilt.
    That is just pathetic.
    Oh and Dave. I am not a creature I am a person, you racist, bigoted POS.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  138. @anon

    You moving to Gaza with your children after Christmas? You are not Christian. You are a Jihadist. Don’t lie.
    Are you sending your children to the border with their guns and Jewish stars for target practice?
    Mr. Jihadist 299. A true coward, admit who you are. A Jew hating Muslim.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  139. @ThreeCranes

    And do you remember Roth’s Portony fucking the Liver for lunch and mommy washing dishes in scalding hot water because the house maid, a black woman had eaten off them?

  140. @Fran Taubman

    ‘You are so dishonest Colin you don’t give a rats ass about the Palestinians, if it was another Arab killing those children you would not blink an eye.
    You just hate Jews. The story is so complicated over there there is no moral straight line.
    You crying your eyes out for the Muslims in Camps in China?’

    There you go — I am, as a matter of fact. I wouldn’t put it that way, but…

    You’re abusing me as an alternative to facing the truth.

    Watched the video yet, Fran?

  141. @Fran Taubman

    ‘…A true coward, admit who you are. A Jew hating Muslim.’

    Fran’s figured it out. No matter what Jews do, it’s fine. The critics are just anti-semites.

    Christ, Fran. This would work for the Green River Killer.

  142. @Fran Taubman

    ‘Oh and Dave. I am not a creature I am a person, you racist, bigoted POS.’

    Your description of Dave seems to fit you actually rather well, Fran. You’re certainly racist and bigoted; see your open contempt for any expression of sympathy for Palestinians and Muslims.

    Anyone who defends Israel is a ‘POS’ in my book. Actually the term I’d employ is ‘evil,’ but that word seems to have gone out of fashion, so to keep my language contemporary I’ll go with ‘piece of shit,’ and apply it to you.

    So ‘racist, bigoted POS’ — as you put it. But that’s you, Fran — not Dave.

    Watched the video yet, by the way?

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  143. This happens regularly and someone pointed that it’s happened 109 times already.
    In the global casino you guys (zios) have been busted again. The casino owners will not be able to buy off the incoming tsunami.
    Colin, it’s not smarts but low cunning, thievery and a mafia like cohenism that gives you all a winning hand.
    I suspect you to be a closet Zionist.

  144. @Colin Wright

    Yes I watched it. Nothing of substance in any of these comments except the exchange of POS.

  145. The reason the Zios rule is because of the “Old Testament’. 99% of the religious people haven’t read it.
    The Old Testament, the Torah, the Koran and the Talmud all belong to another age.
    The murderous and bloody god that reigns therein has even the 21st century middle America in a thrall.

    And the New Testament has been like clay in Roman Catholic Papal hands.

    Come back to agnosticism ; a fine balance that will make you lean towards Eastern Mysticism.

  146. AaronB says:
    @Gilad Atzmon

    ‘Others also bad’ – Gilad, you are indicting Jews and Jewish culture as uniquely and especially bad. ‘Others also bad’ refutes the specific and exact claim you are making. It is exactly relevant to what you specifically are claiming.

    If you merely wished to say Jews sometimes act bad, not a single person in their right mind would object.

    • Disagree: Fran Taubman
  147. AaronB says:
    @Colin Wright

    Yes Colin, you have made it abundantly clear that you have not yet found an atrocity by other peoples that you find objectionable, and it is only Jewish misbehavior of even the mildest sort, that you find worthy of analyzing under your microscopic lens. And that all other nationalisms and cultures are worthy and legitimate, and that Jewish culture and nationalism alone must be forced to disappear from the face of the earth.

    We know this. No need to repeat it. Which is why you have not a shred of credibility left – you are merely a partisan hack working out his personal resentments against Jews. Together with your admission that you are jealous of Jewish intelligence, you have abundantly filled out in ink my sketch of your motives and psychology on another thread, where I explained how personal failures and jealousies suddenly made you “discover” how uniquely awful Jews are lol.

    I would laugh at you, but it would almost be too cruel 🙂 Jealousy and resentment is punishment enough – it eats up the mind and soul.

    On a related note, Colin, the greatest European philosopher of all time who could heal your embittered soul, Michel de Montaigne, was also descendend on his mothers side from recent Jewish conversos, like Saint Teresa. He is the only writer in the Western tradition who independently discovered Taoism and Buddhism. I’m telling you, Colin, what’s notable about Jews isn’t intelligence, but spirituality – not for nothing have Jews given the entire Western half of the world their spirituality. Only Indians are as spiritually gifted. So once again, Colin – the only cure for you is to turn again like your forebears did to Jews for spiritual healing.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @PPB
    , @Nodwink
  148. @Colin Wright

    ” Historically, Judaism was always an urban cult”

    That’s true enough. Ashkenazi immigrants to the US in the late 19th to early 20th centuries settled almost exclusively in the largest cities. Without a fairly large population to serve as host to their chosen role, those jews wouldn’t have survived as a separate culture.

  149. @anon

    ‘that was snark directed at the Tubman, Colin…’

    Ah. I’m sorry then.

    When it comes to the Zionist entity and its evil, I tend to become self-righteous and humorless. This has happened before.

  150. @AaronB

    ‘Words
    @Colin Wright
    Yes Colin, you have made it abundantly clear that you have not yet found an atrocity by other peoples that you find objectionable…’

    Well, that’s completely untrue — and you go on from there.

    Scanning your post, you seem to finish up with that Jewish ‘spirituality’ schtick of yours. Given the cynical viciousness and moral corruption of modern Israel, that’s always a hoot.

    You’re so egregiously dishonest. I think that’s what really maddens me about you.

    • Replies: @renfro
  151. @AaronB

    ‘‘Others also bad’ – Gilad, you are indicting Jews and Jewish culture as uniquely and especially bad…’

    Speaking for myself, I would say it’s not Jews in general but Zionists and Israel in particular that are uniquely and especially bad.

    As so often, the appropriate analogy is to your closest ideological kin; the Nazis and their exercise in realizing their ideas. It’s not that Germans in general are bad — any more than Jews are — it’s that Nazism was bad.

    …and so are you, Aaron, and so is your chosen state and ideology. And before you start gassing about the (supposed) joys and wonders of your little exercise in racial supremacy, I’ll point out Nazism had some attractive features as well.

    That didn’t make it okay; and Zionism’s not okay either.

    It’s particularly not okay because we’ve been manipulated into supporting it. At least that’s not something we can accuse the Nazis of.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
    , @AaronB
  152. @AaronB

    Sorry meat to press agree.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  153. @Colin Wright

    Well well venturing into the outer limits of racism. Good luck with that.
    That’s not what Gilad is saying. He is saying we Jews we are all fucked, not just Zios.
    1. We are innately fucked. Biologically like the Borgs.
    1. Then they come for us because we are too much to deal with. And others are suffering. Suffering uniquely created by Jews, even on the other side of the world.
    2. We cannot cope with our guilt so we flee to Israel.
    3. There goes the neighborhood. The Zios become the Borgs.

    You get the cause and effect (affect?) here.
    Meanwhile you are always showing everyone how much smarter then the Jews you are like we are a scam.
    You just cannot sort out raw emotional irrational hatred for the life of all of you.
    Keep trying. I will let you know when you hit bingo.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  154. AaronB says:
    @Fran Taubman

    No worries I figured as much 🙂

  155. AaronB says:
    @Colin Wright

    Colin, you just responded to my remarks about the Spanish destruction of the Aztec and Inca culture and massacre of its people with a general defense of Spanish culture in the 16th century 🙂

    But Israel defending its borders is the real world-historical infamy that will forever stain the annals of human history 🙂

    You so obviously don’t even believe your own crap lol. This is all really a game for you. You’re just one of those caustic, sarcastic, bitter, splenetic types like utu. Your type always hates Jews if they can’t ally with them. I think its wounded love.

    But its all good. We Jews need people like you as much as you need Jews. We’re frenemies, even if you can’t admit it.

    • Agree: Fran Taubman
    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  156. renfro says:
    @Adrian

    I heard the former once coolly say to an opponent: “you don’t know the files”. Yes that is it. Those who “do know the files” can only come to one conclusion: Israel has made itself into a pariah state or one that, at least, deserves to be so.

    So true. I know a lot of people commenting on the Israel issue don’t do deep research …and only see the tip of the iceberg.
    ‘If’ they did they would be even more incensed over the extent to which Israel has used to US.
    Playing the US off against Russia, feeding the US fake intelligence about Arab countries, double crossing the US on agreements, egging on Arab countries by telling them the US supports whatever Israel does, hiding what weapons they have to get the US to give them more, threatening the use of the ‘Jewish vote’ in the US if the US doesnt help them get accepted into the UN, demanding the US provide them US aircraft and equipment even when they were told it would be less costly to acquire them elsewhere because Israel ‘wanted it to seen that the US was 100% for Israel’, lying about their covert activities on Arab countries even after they had been caught at them …..it goes on and on and on.

    Anytime someone has time to spare they should read thru the official reports and correspondence ….it will absolutely blow your mind how Israel sunk its fangs on to the American tit.

    https://history.state.gov/search?q=Israel

  157. renfro says:
    @Anonymous

    But it’s too late. They cant shut it down anymore. Too many know.

    Indeed. And take it from a ex Israeli who is well qualified to know what she is talking about.

    Israel has always been crazy
    Avigail Abarbanel on December 2, 2014

    [MORE]

    ”It’s not a big claim to fame but I have been saying for years that Israeli society is crazy. I escaped from Israel largely because of that… Phil Weiss’s analysis [Psst! Is Israel Going Crazy?] is correct except for one point and that is that those sentiments he describes have always been there. It’s not like it’s something new that just sprang up recently.

    I have grown up with this all around me. I recognise the language. I was brought up (I was born in 1964) to believe that the ‘Arabs’ (the word ‘Palestinian’ was largely not used in my childhood) could not be trusted, that ‘they’ are not like ‘us’, that they are treacherous and would stab me in the back if I relaxed and trusted them. We were always kept apart from the Palestinian citizens of Israel, let alone the Palestinians living in the West Bank or in Gaza. Gaza in fact was a symbol of a cursed, hellish place. When someone annoyed you you said to them Lech le’Aza, ‘Go to Gaza’, the equivalent of ‘go to hell’. That was part of normal day-to-day Hebrew in my youth. Like I mentioned in the past, the first time I met a Palestinian as an equal human being was in Australia in my early thirties…
    Without knowing it, I grew up with classic colonial rhetoric. Colonisers motivated by fear and possibly guilt, have always demonised the people they have hurt. Dehumanisation helps to reduce empathy and shut down the conscience.
    The difference now is that that these largely informal but widespread social attitudes to the colonised have now found themselves back in power. Drunk with their newfound freedom, coming out of the shadows with no need to hide themselves any longer, free from the tyranny of worrying about ‘world public opinion’, they are out celebrating and feasting; Politicians outdoing one another acting out and giving life to their most depraved, murderous fantasies. And they are out-of-control. But please do not make the mistake of thinking that these feelings and urges belong to a lunatic fringe. They do not. They are supported by the majority of Israeli-Jews and as Phil rightly says, they are led from the front by top politicians. These politicians are now changing the legal system to create an environment that fits these attitudes better and where they can be unleashed legally, and thrive.

    Israel has always been mad and bad. How could it not be when it is based on a fearful, traumatised, paranoid, settler-colonialist culture with a sense of eternal entitlement, and when it is built on the ruins of the indigenous culture it has worked so hard to eliminate? Israel has always done bad things, terrible things. Ask the Palestinians, the asylum seekers, the poor, women… But previously things were done in secret. When Israel was young and poor and needed the world, it was keen to present an image of legality, reason, refinement, intellect and democracy to fit with the Western world it so wanted to be a part of. What was always right under a thin veneer, but that almost every Israeli Jew knew and supported, is now brought out into the open. Israel is simply leading itself and its culture to its logical conclusion. What is happening now was always inevitable. It is the next logical step. It is impossible to sustain a split reality of a civilized, legally-minded, educated, cultured, refined, enlightened society while colonialism continues to rage with its atrocities and injustices. Enlightenment can only truly exist on a foundation of justice and freedom. Anything else is self-serving and short-lived nonsense. Most Israeli academics not only support their regime, they benefit from it. Watch the majority of them say nothing about these new developments.
    As ugly and as dangerous as these developments are, it is a good thing that the truth is finally out. Israel should have never been supported in the first place, but it’ll be increasingly harder for anyone to continue to support a country that is following the path Israel does now. Like all sick societies, Israel is its own biggest enemy and it feels invincible, justified and does not give a damn about what others think about it. This is a lethal cocktail.
    I never trusted that country. I was always terrified of it becoming truly and openly fascist. As a woman I never liked the way religion has played such a central role in Israeli society and was always worried that it would eventually take over completely. I always felt oppressed by the atmosphere of suspicion and harshness and the obsession with ‘security’ and control, which has tragically infected the entire Western world.
    I was afraid of it 23 years ago when I left and thought it’d come sooner. It took a little longer than I thought, but it is finally happening. Fascism cannot take hold unless the sentiments that feed it are widespread.
    And to think that once upon a time I was worried that I was too extreme or unreasonable with some of my predictions about Israel… It’s all in its psychology and it’s always been there. I told you so.”

    Avigail Abarbanel
    Avigail Abarbanel was born and raised in Israel. She moved to Australia in 1991 and now lives in the north of Scotland. She works as a psychotherapist and clinical supervisor in private practice . She is the editor of Beyond Tribal Loyalties: Personal Stories of Jewish Peace Activists (Cambridge Scholars Publishing, 2012).

    And..
    Why I left the cult
    Avigail Abarbanel on October 8, 2016
    https://mondoweiss.net/2016/10/why-i-left-the-cult/

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  158. @AaronB

    ‘Colin, you just responded to my remarks about the Spanish destruction of the Aztec and Inca culture and massacre of its people with a general defense of Spanish culture in the 16th century …

    No…not what was said, as usual. In your usual arrogance of ignorance, you summarized Spain’s Sixteenth Century as something they should be ashamed of. I differed.

    Many don’t see it that way. Unlike you, they have some actual idea of the era as a whole.

    ‘… But its all good. We Jews need people like you as much as you need Jews. We’re frenemies, even if you can’t admit it.’

    You just wait for me to throw you the life preserver when you’re in trouble, then.

    …the irony here is that I do think we here in America are going to be morally obliged to admit the Jews from Palestine when they begin to flee.

    But I’d seriously make an exception for you, if that were practical. You’re precisely the kind of vermin who genuinely does deserve to be torn limb from limb by his outraged victims.

    …but I’ve a nasty suspicion you’re never going to actually go back. Your protestations of the joys of life in Israel are probably no more sincere than anything else you dream up.

    Practically speaking, we’re stuck with you. But I can hope you trip and fall into a chipper or something, I suppose.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  159. @Fran Taubman

    ‘Well well venturing into the outer limits of racism. Good luck with that.
    That’s not what Gilad is saying. He is saying we Jews we are all fucked, not just Zios…’

    This doesn’t even rationally respond to what I said.

    I specifically noted I was ‘speaking for myself’ — not Atzmon. So whatever he is saying may or may not be true — I never claimed it was what I was saying.

    As for the rest of your post, I shouldn’t hate Israel?

    But it’s evil, Fran — and as I have pointed out, it’s an evil we’re complicit in.

    That makes it special. After all, China’s treatment of the Uighers may be equally vile — although it appears to lack that special Israeli frisson of gratuitous sadism — but it’s not as if our sponsorship is essential to the commission of the crime. In fact, given China’s size, there’s not much at all we can do.

    We could stop Israel’s crimes tomorrow, if we had the political and moral courage.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  160. renfro says:
    @AaronB

    ‘Others also bad’ – Gilad, you are indicting Jews and Jewish culture as uniquely and especially bad. ‘Others also bad’ refutes the specific and exact claim you are making. It is exactly relevant to what you specifically are claiming.

    Jewish culture is uniquely bad. While not all individual Jews are bad, the “Tribe’….acting collectively has been ‘ bad’ through out its existence…..hence all its exiles and punishments.
    Other groups are bad sometimes or off and on such as Germany, the US, and most other groups and countries.

    But no one but the Tribe has been ‘consistently bad’ with absolutely no good or redeeming acts ever.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @Fran Taubman
  161. AaronB says:
    @Colin Wright

    Just like I said – frenemies 🙂

    Your fantasies about viciously murdering me in various horrific ways for not being ashamed to be Jewish and not submitting to your superior intelligence are just the flip side of your tragically unreciprocated love for Jews.

    But thanks for once again revealing your true character 🙂 It is people like you that make us need an Israel, and ensure that Israel will never vanish.

    You are doing excellent work for us.

    I for one wish you a long and flourishing life and hope you continue giving us glimpses into your thoughts on Jews and Israel well into the future.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  162. renfro says:
    @Colin Wright

    You need to understand that AaronB is a ‘dilettante and dabbler ‘ in philosophy with only superficial , not professional knowledge of what he uses to promote Jewishness. He lifts a bit of this and that from some philosopher and throws it in his arguments……. the ‘esoteric kitchen sink arguement’ …..which is why he mostly ‘babbles’ on and has nothing to back him up. Jews (and the religious) in particular use spirituality because it is , just like religious discussions, a bottomless pit of ‘no answers ‘, just opinions……of basically nothing except babble.
    No one can respond intelligently to babble because there is nothing concrete in it to respond to. And that way he can keep you going round and round in a search for something intelligent on his babble and keep himself in the conversation.

    That is why it is pointless to discuss with him unless he brings up something factually wrong, which he hardly does. If he were to try to discuss Jews in reality he would be shot down and thereafter lose most commenters willing to respond to him.

    • Agree: utu
    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
    , @utu
  163. @renfro

    Talk about a case of babble. OMG. WTF is your point?

  164. @renfro

    ‘Israel has always been crazy
    Avigail Abarbanel …’

    That’s not a bad piece; in fact, I looked it up and saved the link. However, I do take exception to this sort of thing:

    ‘…Without knowing it, I grew up with classic colonial rhetoric. Colonisers motivated by fear and possibly guilt, have always demonised the people they have hurt…’

    Not really. The ‘classic colonial rhetoric’ is more or less benevolently patronizing. See Kipling’s portrayals of Indians, or Taft’s ‘little brown brothers’ in the Philippines. Even the French thought Algerians were fine — as farm laborers and infantry.

    The last thing the Jews of Israel would do, of course, would be to arm the Palestinians. Aside from certain co-opted minorities, the idea is to relentlessly marginalize and torment the Palestinians — not fit them into a scheme which however, inequitable, does offer the Palestinian a place in his own land. He cannot be the Halvidar of the British Indian Army, nor the Algerian Tirailleur. He cannot even be the Irish Catholic tenant farmer, with his plot of potatoes.

    This tends to be a problem with a lot of critiques of Israel. They equate it to various more morally ambiguous institutions that have existed elsewhere. There’s nothing morally ambiguous about Israel. There’s nothing benevolent or accidental there at all. It’s an act of pure and deliberate evil.

    • Agree: renfro
    • Replies: @Adrian
  165. @Colin Wright

    We buy Chinese goods, wee trade with China. We therefor support them.
    Get real.
    At best the situation over there is 50/50. You cannot deny the Muslim attempt to wipe the Jews out, not just of Israel.

  166. AaronB says:
    @renfro

    There you go. This is why we need an Israel. This is why, rightly or wrongly, some Jews sees any criticism of Jews as a slippery slope towards the insane pre-genocidal attitude expressed here, and why in the minds of all good and respectable people even mild criticism of Jews carries with it a faint whiff of the disreputable, as if one one stands on the edge of a noxious and poisonous field.

    Unz.com in general has been the greatest boon to Jewry for some time. Jews were growing complacent and comfortable.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  167. @AaronB

    I guess all the happy faces mean you’re seriously pissed.

    What age were you when you emigrated from Israel, by the way, and how old are you now?

    • Replies: @AaronB
  168. @Fran Taubman

    ‘We buy Chinese goods, wee trade with China. We therefor support them.
    Get real.’

    We could boycott China — you’re right.

    However, our moral complicity with their crimes are at worst a matter of indifference. It’s not like Israel, where we are essential to the state’s very existence, and ceaselessly work to strengthen it.

    Moreover, China’s policies do at least have the defense that they appear to be rationally self-interested — however callous and unjust they may be. That gratuitous and even self-defeating petty sadism that is apparent in Jewish conduct in Israel seems to be missing.

    It’s the difference between the heartless landlord who squeezes every cent he can out of his tenants and the psychotic who actually enjoys seeing the children shivering in the gutter after he’s evicted them.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  169. utu says:
    @renfro

    “…unless he brings up something factually wrong, which he hardly does. ” – He makes mistakes (see comment #108) but when you point out them to him it leaves no mark, no dent, no impact and he continues with his spiel. Indomitable chutzpah. No shame.

    The problem with Jews is not really Israel and what they do there as indeed many countries and peoples did many awful things in the past and probably will do in the future. The problem with the Jews is that they consist of many characters like AaronB who by any civilized society should have been banished because no civil long term interaction can be conducted with them to the mutual benefit.

    So, I must disagree with Collin Wright’s tack that concentrates on Israel and its misdeeds and the ugliness of Zionists and Zionism. The root of evil is Jewishness, is Judaism even among some secular Jews and AaronB is its perfect exemplar.

    The liquidation or dissolution of the state of Israel in not a desired outcome. Israel might be a perfect place to which creatures like AaronB could sent and quarantined. Israel should and perhaps was by design meant as a penal colony like Devil’s Island or the Madagascar plan where Jewish miscreants could be banished to protect the human race. Perhaps the idea of a quarantine should be resurrected.

    • Agree: AaronB
    • LOL: Fran Taubman
    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  170. @Priss Factor

    “No, it’s more like 90 Jews are Liberal Zionists, 9 Jews are Neocon Zionists, and 1 Jew is like Max Blumenthal or Philip Weiss.”

    You might have to adjust that a little to:

    It’s more like 900 Jews are Liberal Zionists, 90 Jews are Neocon Zionists, and 1 Jew is like Max Blumenthal or Philip Weiss.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  171. AaronB says:
    @Colin Wright

    I left Israel when I was 13.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  172. AaronB says:
    @Colin Wright

    You see Fran, when anyone else does bad things, it’s always for some totally understandable and rational reason, you know.

    When the Spanish slaughtered the Aztecs, well, you know, they really wanted gold and needed it to finance their imperial expansion. That’s kind of rational and understandable, you know.

    But when Israel defends its borders against people trying to destroy it, that’s just the ultimate in cruelty – it’s totally gratuitous. Other peoples cruelty is generally understandable, you know, greed and lust for conquest make a kind of sense.

    But self defense is just beyond the pale. That’s why we just have to totally and completely destroy Israel, you see, and really we should all admire Erdogan. Yes. Erdogan’s aggression is really quite understandable and good.

    Don’t you dare call this anti-Semitism btw, that’s just what a pathetic person with no arguments would say.

    This is almost too fun 🙂

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  173. @Fran Taubman

    ‘ You cannot deny the Muslim attempt to wipe the Jews out, not just of Israel.’

    Muslims, historically, were relatively good friends to the Jews. It was us Christians who were a menace.

    What do you reckon changed, Fran?

  174. @utu

    ‘…So, I must disagree with Collin Wright’s tack that concentrates on Israel and its misdeeds and the ugliness of Zionists and Zionism. The root of evil is Jewishness, is Judaism even among some secular Jews and AaronB is its perfect exemplar…’

    Well, here I keep thinking back to all the Jews I used to know. These days, the Jews I interact with are disproportionately Zionists, and I don’t think Zionists are exactly the pick of the litter when it comes to Jews.

    The creed attracts the least of the Jews — those whose sense of self-esteem is deficient, who need a national alter-ego to lean on. Jews with something on the ball — your Krugmans, your Woody Allens, your Phil Weisses, your Gilad Atzmons, your Goldstones — are like most of the rest of us. They can stand on their own two feet, and be judged on their merits as individuals, and at best, they express purely perfunctory approval of Israel.

    They just don’t need it. It’s the insecure little voles — the Jonathan Pollards, the Jeffrey Goldbergs, all those who were bullied by the gentile in Junior High School — who disproportionately need an Israel. Jeffrey Goldberg has actually admitted this. He was bullied in school here in America, and then went to Israel, and got to be big and strong as a prison guard (!)

    So argue with Zionists all the time, and aside from the utter lack of merit to their case, you’re bound to come away with a pretty low opinion of Jews. It’s striking that while I’ve encountered numerous intelligent and morally perfectly decent Jews, the only one who was both a Zionist and seemed to me to deserve anything like respect was Shmuel Rosner. The rest seem to be almost uniformly the worst of the tribe. At best, they’re like Jennifer Rubin or Alan Dershowitz — perhaps bright enough, but you come away feeling like you’ve got something unpleasant stuck to the sole of your shoe.

    ‘…The liquidation or dissolution of the state of Israel in not a desired outcome. Israel might be a perfect place to which creatures like AaronB could sent and quarantined. Israel should and perhaps was by design meant as a penal colony like Devil’s Island or the Madagascar plan where Jewish miscreants could be banished to protect the human race. Perhaps the idea of a quarantine should be resurrected…’

    Kind of hard on the Palestinians, isn’t it? What exactly did they do to merit such a fate?

    Then, too, the Jews themselves wouldn’t go. It’s striking that very few Jews with anything resembling an authentic choice have ever opted to actually move to Palestine.

    After all, it’s not their home. Besides, unless being a prison guard actually appeals, why would you?

    • Replies: @renfro
  175. @AaronB

    ‘I left Israel when I was 13.’

    Where did you finish growing up? And how old are you now?

  176. renfro says:
    @Colin Wright

    Tell you a story about ‘normal’ Jews .

    I was out to dinner one night with a friend because our wives had left for the beach early.
    A Jewish guy I knew socially came in and we invited him to sit with us.
    We discussed this and that and the conversation turned to politics and the current ME situation (this was in 2004).
    I asked him his opinion on the Israel factor in the ME….he suddenly lost his napkin under the table, then spent 5 minutes looking for a waiter to bring him a drink…..I waited patiently to see if he was going to reply to my question…..he didn’t. After that elaborate avoidance I didn’t bother to repeat my question.
    It has been my experience that a Jew when asked about Israel by a non Jew who he knows ….as opposed maybe to being asked by a non Jew he doesnt know …..will do anything he can to avoid the Israel question. Why that is I do not know, I have though perhaps it is because in a community of mostly gentiles like mine or situation of being question by a non Jew member of that community he is afraid either of incurring disapproval of the goy or having whatever he said that wasn’t pro Israel get back to some other Jew in the community.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  177. Truth3 says:

    A Wise Man once said…

    Jewish arrogance and misbehavior remain largely unchecked and can increase completely without limit.

    This simple fact approaches the mathematical idea of infinity.

    Infinity is of the realm of God, not man.

    Arrogance and Misbehavior is of the realm of Satan.

    True Sons of Satan, they are.

  178. @Twodees Partain

    ‘It’s more like 900 Jews are Liberal Zionists, 90 Jews are Neocon Zionists, and 1 Jew is like Max Blumenthal or Philip Weiss.’

    I think a rather large proportion of Jews — forty percent? — feel vaguely obliged to be loyal to Israel, but ardently wish it would make nice.

    They’re part of the problem, but it’s hard to condemn them — particularly when so many gentiles support Israel for even worse reasons.

    One aspect of all this is that Jewish identity has been steadily hollowed out of any content other than Israel. Loyalty to Israel is one of the few touchstones left when it comes to having any identity at all. Long ago, a lot of synagogues became little more than collection boxes for Israel. You go to synagogue two or three times a year, and you demonstrate you’re a good Jew by giving a thousand dollars to Israel.

    That doesn’t justify supporting Israel, but it does help to explain it. If the rest of us could make it our business to firmly rub their snouts in what it is they are supporting, I suspect most Jews would give it up. Our local Zionists here are a misleading sample; most Jews aren’t particularly bad people.

    All this is more or less informed speculation on my part — but unless some Jew with some integrity and familiarity with the American Jewish scene comes along, it may be about as good as we’re going to do.

  179. @renfro

    ‘…I asked him his opinion on the Israel factor in the ME….he suddenly lost his napkin under the table, then spent 5 minutes looking for a waiter to bring him a drink…..I waited patiently to see if he was going to reply to my question…..he didn’t…’

    Sounds about right.

  180. Adrian says:
    @Colin Wright

    Yes I agree. Israel stands out among other colonizing nations for the quite special nastiness of its policies and the world wide effect these have. The Canadian philosophy professor Michael Neumann (who once, together with his brother, demanded that the name of their grandmother would be removed from the Yad Vashem) analysed that very well in his 2002 article “What is so bad about Israel”.
    The short answer: Israel is an innovator in the search for a squeky-clean sadism – and the legitimation of this.

    Here is a short extract in which I have tried to bring out his main points:.The cuts are represented by the usual three dots.

    “The appetite for world-class atrocity may be adolescent, but it belongs to an adolescence that many of us never outgrow. The facts are disappointing. Even compared with post-Nazi monsters like Pol Pot or Saddam Hussein, the Israelis have killed very few people; their tortures and oppression are boring. How could these mediocre crimes compete for our attention with whatever else is on TV?

    They couldn’t; in fact they are designed not to do so. Yet Israel is a growing evil whose end is not in sight. Its outlines have become clearer as times have changed….In this context, the Israeli settlement policy, quite apart from its terrible effect on Palestinians, is outrageous for what it represents: a careful, deliberate rejection of peace, and a declaration of the fixed intention to dispossess the Palestinians until they have nothing left. … by the mid-1970s, Israel’s crimes were no longer the normal atrocities of nation-building nor an excessive sort of self-defense. They represented a cold-blooded, calculated, indeed an eagerly embraced choice of war over peace, and an elaborate plan to seek out those who had fled the misery of previous confrontations, to make certain that their suffering would continue….So Israel stands out among other unpleasant nations in the depth of its commitment to gratuitous violence and nastiness: this you expect to find among skinheads rather than nations. But wait! there’s more! It is not just that times have changed. It also has to do with the position Israel occupies in these new times….

    There is a difference between the survival of evil in the world’s backwaters and its emergence in the world’s spotlight. If some smug new corporation, armed with political influence and snazzy lawyers, set up a slave market in Times Square, that would represent an even greater evil than the slave market in Abidjan. This is not because humans in New York are more important than humans in Abidjan, but because what happens in New York is more influential and more representative of the way the world is heading. American actions do much to set standards worldwide; the actions of slave-traders in Abidjan do not. …
    What Israel does is at the very center of the world stage, not only as a focus of media attention, but also as representative of Western morality and culture.

    What matters here is not Israel’s arrogance, but its stature. Israel stands right in the spotlight and crushes an entire people. It defies international protests and resolutions as no one else can. Only Israel, not, say, Indonesia or even the US, dares proclaim: “Who are you to preach morality to us? We are morality incarnate!” …Its tactics seem nicely tuned to inflict the most harm with the least damage to its image. They include deliberately messy surgical strikes, halting ambulances, uprooting orchards and olive groves, destroying urban sanitation, curfews, road closures, holding up food until it spoils, allocating five times the water to settlers as to the people whose land was confiscated, and attacks on educational or cultural facilities. Its most effective strategies are minimalist, as when Palestinians have to sit and wait at checkpoints for hours in sweltering cars, risking a bullet if they get out to stretch their legs, waiting to work, to get medical care, to do anything in life that requires movement from one place to another, as likely to be turned back as let through, and certain to suffer humiliation or worse. Israel has pioneered the science of making life unlivable with as little violence as possible. … Israel is an innovator in the search for a squeaky-clean sadism.

    The worse things get for the Palestinians, the more violently they must defend themselves, and the more violently Israel can respond. Whenever possible, Israel sees to it that the Palestinians take each new step in the escalation. The hope is that, at some point, Israel will be able to kill many tens of thousands, all in the name of self-defense. ..As Israel sinks lower, it corrupts the world that persists in admiring it…. It is this ability to command respect despite the most public outrages against humanity that makes Israel so exceptionally bad. Israel does not only commit its crimes; it also legitimates them.”

    • Agree: Colin Wright
    • Replies: @AaronB
  181. @Colin Wright

    You really don’t get it. Let me introduce you to this dude.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amin_al-Husseini

    Muslims only accepted Jews when they were second class citizens and paid taxes for services.
    Each Muslim country was different during different times.
    No Jews at all in KSA. Egypt was okay until Nasser etc.
    They just do not believe that Jews have any rights to control a land mass. Other then that it is just another shit show land dispute over there, which goes on all the time, between Syria, the Kurds and Turkey etc.
    One can never make sense of the tribal fights over there but it is never ending. For you to single out the Jews as being invaders is ludicrous.

    I propose a federation between Jordan, Egypt and Israel. Where citizens join the federation. Palestinians vote in Jordan, Jews in Israel, and Gazans Egypt. Everyone has green card and residency status in any country in the federation.

    Think outside the box. The Jews are just another bozo on the bus over there. That you separate them out is inexplicable, look at the ruthlessness of the leaders over there with little thought of their populations and peoples. Way worse then Israel.

    Since 1947 like 20,000.00 Arabs have died in fights with Israel. And while all human lives are important. That about wraps up one day in the Syrian or Yemen fight including women and children.
    Asad’s father killed 10,000 people in one day in Homs a province in Syria, lots of info on that. All that was left was a sign swinging in the breeze.

    Only irrational Jew haters can cry about Jews killing children at the border. It is beyond insane.
    Simply stay away from the border you will be fine. If the situation was reversed and the Arabs were in charge there would be no Jews left.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @Adrian
  182. @renfro

    I hope you know how completely hilarious and crazy this comment is.
    Talk to some of your friends.

    But no one but the Tribe has been ‘consistently bad’ with absolutely no good or redeeming acts ever.

    I am not going to respond to this by pointing out our “good deeds” as it sounds humiliatingly defense
    Why don’t you just google some of the note worth achievements of the Jews like Einstein, etc.
    People who have contributed to science, and literature.
    Every iPhone has chips from Israel. Right now Israel leads the world in Alzheimer research, and many cancer cures.
    I hope you never get a cancer that requires medical research from Jews in Israel. Google it. A lot of people are indebted to the Jewish technology.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Israeli_inventions_and_discoveries

    Got any Arab contributions?

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @renfro
    , @Truth3
  183. @AaronB

    I always tell Gilad he is better then any pogrom for solidifying Zionism and Israel.
    We see what we are up against.
    Gilad is the biggest Zionist fundraiser I know.
    You cannot make this stuff up.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  184. PPB says:
    @AaronB

    “I’m telling you, Colin, what’s notable about Jews isn’t intelligence, but spirituality – not for nothing have Jews given the entire Western half of the world their spirituality. Only Indians are as spiritually gifted. So once again, Colin – the only cure for you is to turn again like your forebears did to Jews for spiritual healing.”

    I respect many of the viewpoints you’ve expressed in this thread, Aaron, and also intuit the resentment-fueled nature of much of what you’ve had to defend yourself and your people from, not that anyone should be exempt from fair criticism. But I really feel that you overshot the mark with the statement quoted above– the assertion that Jews are the worlds preeminently spiritual people (not that I’m claiming the opposite), and Judaism (the?) primary fount of healing for disaffected Westerners, seems not only factually questionable, but to emerge from a spirit of infatuation more than one of balance and sobriety. Such effusions also make you an easier target for your antagonists. We could all use a bit of humility in this regard.

    • Replies: @anonymous
    , @AaronB
  185. @Fran Taubman

    ‘You really don’t get it. Let me introduce you to this dude…’

    This is like listening to the BDM girl tell me about how great the Fuhrer really is.

    …except, unlike the BDM girl, you won’t even move to Israel and live in your beloved Reich. For you, all this evil and suffering — which is very real for the victims — is just a goddamned hobby.

    You make me ill.

  186. @Fran Taubman

    ‘I always tell Gilad he is better then any pogrom for solidifying Zionism and Israel.
    We see what we are up against.
    Gilad is the biggest Zionist fundraiser I know…’

    Sure, Fran. That’s why you’re always so supportive.

    Isn’t it more like Atzmon is the kid saying the emperor has no clothes?

  187. @Fran Taubman

    ‘Every iPhone has chips from Israel. Right now Israel leads the world in Alzheimer research, and many cancer cures…’

    Plus, it leads in the illegal organ trade, and it’s a leader in the international white slave trade, and in international internet fraud, and in…

    Did you realize Israel is the only nation in modern history to attack every single one of its neighbors? Even Hitler and Stalin couldn’t match that.

    Yep. It’s a real champ.

    …weren’t you going to leave us? You said you were going away.

  188. Adrian says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Can I translate your “Stay away from the border and you will be fine” into “Stay away from the border and allow us to continue making your life a misery without attracting so much international attention and wasting so many bullets” or “Stay away from the border and we are sure to get you and your children at our “next mowing of the lawn”?

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  189. Oracle says:

    “Maybe some Jews now understand that the Zionist shift from a ‘promised land’ to the Neocon ‘promised planet’ doesn’t reflect well on the Jews as a group.“ Very funny.

    The promised planet concept also necessitates civilizational sabotage which will be less popular with each passing day.

    • Agree: Fran Taubman
  190. Oracle says:
    @Colin Wright

    Even the smartest ones aren’t as exceptional as they believe. A lot of it is just more propaganda. I think much of what is perceived as our lesser intelligence is the result of our wanting to be honest and wanting to take people at their word…a far more healthy and functional society results from this. Our civilizational saboteurs though pride themselves on their ability to deceive. That’s not intelligence.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  191. @Adrian

    Too bad the entire population of Gaza is held captive by a murderous Jihadist ideology called Hamas. Willing to sacrifice the advancement of their people to “Kill Jews”. Not one Jew left for them.

    Why don’t the people of Gaza stay away from the border and elect new leadership that will work with Israel for peace and posterity?
    So stupid elect a government that declares war on the neighboring population. Hurls bombs at country much more powerful then them, and expects what exactly?
    Insanity is defined as repeating the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

    • Replies: @Adrian
    , @Colin Wright
  192. renfro says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Every iPhone has chips from Israel.

    LOL really….? Take a look at the companies that own the IPhone chip design and the dozens upon dozens of countries the components are made in.
    Why DO you people lie so much about yourselves? So pathetic.

    https://www.lifewire.com/where-is-the-iphone-made-1999503
    April 08, 2019
    The iPhone’s Component Manufacturers

    [MORE]

    Suuppliers of key parts for the iPhone 5S, 6, and 6S and where they operate, included:
    Accelerometer: Bosch Sensortech, based in Germany with locations in the U.S., China, South Korea, Japan, and Taiwan
    Audio chips: Cirrus Logic, based in the U.S. with locations in the U.K., China, South Korea, Taiwan, Japan, and Singapore
    Battery: Samsung, based in South Korea with locations in 80 countries
    Battery: Sunwoda Electronic, based in China
    Camera: Qualcomm, based in the U.S. with locations in Australia, Brazil, China, India, Indonesia, Japan, South Korea, and more than a dozen locations through Europe and Latin America
    Camera: Sony, based in Japan with locations in dozens of countries
    Chips for 3G/4G/LTE networking: Qualcomm
    Compass: AKM Semiconductor, based in Japan with locations in the U.S., France, England, China, South Korea, and Taiwan
    Glass screen: Corning, based in the U.S., with locations in Australia, Belgium, Brazil, China, Denmark, France, Germany, Hong Kong, India, Israel, Italy, Japan, South Korea, Malaysia, Mexico, Philippines, Poland, Russia, Singapore, South Africa, Spain, Taiwan, The Netherlands, Turkey, the U.K., and the United Arab Emirates
    Gyroscope: STMicroelectronics. Based in Switzerland, with locations in 35 countries
    Flash memory: Toshiba, based in Japan with locations in over 50 countries
    Flash memory: Samsung
    LCD screen: Sharp, based in Japan with locations in 13 countries
    LCD screen: LG, based in South Korea with locations in Poland and China
    A-series processor: Samsung
    A-series processor: TSMC, based in Taiwan with locations in China, Singapore, and the U.S.
    Touch ID: TSMC
    Touch ID: Xintec. Based in Taiwan.
    Touch-screen controller: Broadcom, based in the U.S. with locations in Israel, Greece, the U.K., the Netherlands, Belgium, France, India, China, Taiwan, Singapore, and South Korea
    Wi-Fi chip: Murata, based in the U.S. with locations in Japan, Mexico, Brazil, Canada, China, Taiwan, South Korea, Thailand, Malaysia, Philippines, India, Vietnam, The Netherlands, Spain, the U.K., Germany, Hungary, France, Italy, and Finland

    The iPhone’s Assemblers
    The components manufactured by those companies all around the world are ultimately sent to just two companies to assemble into iPods, iPhones, and iPads. Those companies are Foxconn and Pegatron, both of which are based in Taiwan.
    Technically, Foxconn is the company’s trade name; the firm’s official name is Hon Hai Precision Industry Co. Ltd. Foxconn is Apple’s longest running partner in building these devices. It currently assembles the majority of Apple’s iPhones in its Shenzen, China, location, although Foxconn maintains factories in countries across the world, including Thailand, Malaysia, the Czech Republic, South Korea, Singapore, and the Philippines.

  193. @AaronB

    Israels enemies encourages gratuity. They love it. Because they cannot beat Israel military they choose to put their populations in harms way. While their corrupt leaders live like Jihadi kings in villas.
    The Jihadis hope their population ( younger and more female better then the fighting men) will get harmed to create their propaganda narrative:
    Israel being barbaric occupiers who kill women and children engaged in “peaceful protests. Sealing Gazans into a concentration camp.
    What bullshit!
    All they have to do is put down their weapons and stop bombing and charging Israel and Gaza could become the next Singapore. That is what Israel hoped for when it pulled out of Gaza, until the Jihadist started throwing the Fatah men off the tops of buildings to their death. It all went down hill from there.
    And Israel has never been the same, no more peace plans.

    If there were peace the Jihadis wouldl be out of work. Even Jihadis have career paths. They love their way of life. They love the way things are. People just do not get it.

    The Palestinian leadership does not want peace. They have a multi billion dollar cottage industry playing the victim of an “Occupying force”. The Palestinian leaders make a ton of money that they would loose if peace came to fruition.
    The poor Palestinians are so fucked.

    • Agree: AaronB
    • Replies: @Adrian
    , @Colin Wright
  194. Eric135 says:

    It appears that there are two parallel conversations going on here: one between the three most frequent commenters, who battle back and forth with each other, and another involving a much larger group that might as well not exist as far as the smaller group is concerned.

  195. anonymous[224] • Disclaimer says:
    @PPB

    Although I don’t comment here no more, what Aaron said there is what I thought the last night for some reason about and I am surprised, that he has said that and I stumbled upon it. Some kind of magic.

    Yes he is right.

    Jews created and re-created their religion three times, and Hindus have done the same to theirs – three times, all on their own. And both Hindus and Jews, at the same time, created one religion each which didn’t stick with them but were imported into other cultures. And now, after these teachings have been adopted and transformed, and twisted and in the case of one of them even turned against its root and origin no one remembers and few realize that the whole kind of thinking and understanding of the world that most nations are using is in fact the creation of Jews and Hindus. This is a fact.

    Nowhere outside the Jewish and Hindu cultures in a historical perspective, however deep, similar theosophical sort of thinking is to be found. That is, before the adoption of those aforementioned imported teachings. These ideas and concepts – of God, of sainthood, of liberation – are either of Hindu origin or Jewish. There are no other sources of that.

    And if we compare it to what the Europeans have created on their own we will see a huge difference in the approach to the existential questions as a whole, meaning that for the European philosophers the world itself appears to be a different place, in which the most desirable merit of the highest appeal is power, with wealth coming second and carnage next.

    Perhaps this is what explains how come that other nations which excell in arts and science failed to produce a religion of their own. For a man of the European culture the best thing that can happen to him is to become rich, powerful and immortal, here and now. For us, Jews and for Hindus such an idea is a nightmare. This world is wrong. We want to go home, to God. You do not.

    And I know that a lot of people in here would disagree with this assertion of mine, but that is because although most of them talk and write a lot about Judaism none of them knows indeed what it is, and their ideas of it are of their own and are far from ours, and are based for the most part on strange fantasies and sheer ignorance.

    No one of these people here has ever read a real and serious, modern book about the Jewish religion, such as for example Gershom Scholem’s books and it seems that none of them is interested in reading such a book, in spite of the fact that most of them find it a fascinating topic to discuss and smear on a regular basis, which in itself is a fascinating and peculiar topic to discuss but I digress too far.

    The problem is that for a normal gentile a religion is something that doesn’t possess a significant value per se, but rather it makes sense for him as long as it can be used to accomplish what he wants – power. And all these childish philosophical conversations here about morals and the abcence of morals are in truth nothing else but an expression of the apprehension related to the fact that Jews have been doing well and continue to succeed. Things used to be so much better when Jews were stuck in the ghettos, right?

    Now I will leave it to Aaron, the man with endless patience. I’m out.

    • Agree: AaronB
    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  196. Nodwink says:
    @AaronB

    not for nothing have Jews given the entire Western half of the world their spirituality

    Yes, Europe was Judaized — it was called “the Dark Ages.”

    Thanks for nothing.

  197. Adrian says:
    @Fran Taubman

    You confuse cause and effect. See this fragment of a 2007 interview in Haarets with James Wolfensohn:

    All the Dreams We Had Are Now Gone’
    James Wolfensohn, former World Bank president, resigned as the Quartet’s Mideast envoy with major complaints: The U.S. administration thwarted his efforts, Olmert and Weissglas saw him as a nuisance, and corruption is rife at the Gaza border crossing.

    Wolfensohn sounds hurt and disappointed as he describes the slide into violence after the disengagement from Gaza. “Part of the reason it happened, in my view, is that the conditions in Gaza deteriorated so terribly,” he explains. “If you recall, in the time of the withdrawal there was a day or two of people looting, but within 48 hours it was under control. Things were peaceful in Gaza, and this was not because of a military presence of the Israelis. It was because the Palestinians recognized that if they want to have any hope, they need to be in a more peaceful mode.”
    He toured the Gaza Strip with Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas (Abu Mazen) immediately after the PA asserted its authority there, and recalls a euphoric atmosphere that dissipated very quickly.

    “I remember seeing the greenhouses with the chairman and looking at the fruits and everything, and there was a joyous atmosphere: ‘Boy, we’re about to get this going and we’re going to have hotels by the beaches and we’re going to have tourism and it’s going to be fantastic, and the Palestinians really know how to be hosts.’ But in the months afterward, first of all Arik [Sharon] became ill and the current prime minister came in, and there was a clear change of view.”
    At that time, Wolfensohn recalls, powerful forces in the U.S. administration worked behind his back: They did not believe in the border terminals agreement and wanted to undermine his status as the Quartet’s emissary. The official behind this development, he says, was Elliot Abrams, the neoconservative who was appointed deputy national security adviser in charge of disseminating democracy in the Middle East – “and every aspect of that agreement was abrogated.”
    The non-implementation of the agreement naturally had serious economic consequences. According to Wolfensohn, the shattering of the great hope of normality, which the Palestinians experienced so deeply when the Israel Defense Forces and the settlers left the Gaza Strip, brought about the rise of Hamas. “Instead of hope, the Palestinians saw that they were put back in prison.”

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  198. Adrian says:
    @Fran Taubman

    When will you stop spouting ill-informed propaganda? I see no sign anywhere that you have seriously tried to inform yourself and I feel much inclined to propose to others here to stop paying attention to this low level stuff.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  199. @Fran Taubman

    ‘Too bad the entire population of Gaza is held captive by a murderous Jihadist ideology called Hamas. Willing to sacrifice the advancement of their people to “Kill Jews”. Not one Jew left for them.

    Why don’t the people of Gaza stay away from the border and elect new leadership that will work with Israel for peace and posterity?
    So stupid elect a government that declares war on the neighboring population. Hurls bombs at country much more powerful then them, and expects what exactly?
    Insanity is defined as repeating the same thing over and over and expecting different results.’

    Surely there must be a Zionist who can at least come up with new lies.

    These ones are awfully tired, Fran. They go back at least fifty years, if not more — and they weren’t convincing then.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  200. @anonymous

    ‘… Perhaps this is what explains how come that other nations which excell in arts and science failed to produce a religion of their own. For a man of the European culture the best thing that can happen to him is to become rich, powerful and immortal, here and now. For us, Jews and for Hindus such an idea is a nightmare. This world is wrong. We want to go home, to God. You do not…’

    Sure. We can see this all the time. At last freed from the corruption of the gentile, we have Israel — and just look at how she behaves. A vision of scrupulous morality, isn’t it?

    How can you seriously advance such asinine falsehoods? I don’t even see the point.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  201. @Oracle

    ‘Even the smartest ones aren’t as exceptional as they believe…’

    The smartest ones sure as hell aren’t Zionists. They have the wit to see the whole thing is morally indefensible.

  202. @Adrian

    What horseshit!!. My niece was on the ground during the Gaza pullout. Entire families were uprooted for Palestinians to be self governing. I am ill informed!!!
    Those greenhouses created huge income and employment for the Palestinians and Jews when the Jews were running Gaza.

    Privately someone put up millions to keep those greenhouses going in the hopes of generating income. The Islamist burned them to the ground.
    Your blaming the rise of Hamas on Elliot Abrams!! LOL. No responsibility anywheres else?

    What is especially galling about your comments is your racism towards the Arab population. Infantilizing them so that they cannot make decisions, advocate for themselves, and be responsible for their leaders. They could have figured out how to govern responsibly. They are not children.
    I doubt there was a “clear change of view” by Israel that caused the havoc, and the murder of Fatah.
    That is just so lame.

    The non-implementation of the agreement naturally had serious economic consequences. According to Wolfensohn, the shattering of the great hope of normality, which the Palestinians experienced so deeply when the Israel Defense Forces and the settlers left the Gaza Strip, brought about the rise of Hamas. “Instead of hope, the Palestinians saw that they were put back in prison.”

    Seriously no blame goes to the Islamist? Ae you kidding me. Read the Hamas charter. The Muslim brotherhood which is Hamas is has been around since Sadat was killed at the first signing of peace between Egypt and Israel.

    You complete ignorance of Islamist, the Muslim brotherhood and their goals is breathtaking.
    They want no Jews anywhere in Arabia, so was are we arguing about. What can you negotiate about? It is a stalemate from the get go. They have declared war on the Jews not just Israel.
    They recognize no part of Israel not even 1948. That is why Gaza has turned into a prison.

    The Islamist want Shira throughout Arabia. Read Under the Shade of the Koran by Q’tub. It is all there in black and white. Q’utub and Islamist think the West has polluted the world, especially the freedom of woman.

    Adrain I am afraid you are projecting. There is no one on this site more ignorant then you about Islamist, Jihad, and Hamas. Look around you.!!! Jihad is all around not just in Israel. Israel does not exist in a vacuum. I have spent my life studying this stuff. What a joke you are.

    • Replies: @Adrian
    , @Adrian
  203. @Colin Wright

    Well that is why we are where we are. Israel has no more left leaning politicians. There is right and ultra right.
    No more two state solution. After Gaza it was all over.
    What do you think caused it? The Jews pulled out of Gaza as part of a plan to disenfranchised the Palestinians. I mean what ideas do you have? Oh I forgot Israel is evil end of story.

    I was for a two state solution. I was all for it. Not any more.
    I am not rehashing tired ideas, I am giving you facts on the ground. This is what people talk about. This is their rational.
    Things have changed since Hamas took over Gaza that is just a fact.
    The left disappeared in Israel another fact. It just is. There is a huge shift in Israel regarding Palestinian independence another fact. These are just facts Colin sans emotion. You are all emotion.
    Follow the dots.

    If I am missing something let me know. Most Israelis thought the 2000 Oslo and Camp David accords were going to produce a Palestinian state and we would all live happy ever after. Thats what me and many many people thought. How could my views on Gaza be fifty years old when the pullout happened twenty some years ago.

    A ton of stuff has happened in fifty years, as thoughts and positions have changed.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  204. AaronB says:
    @PPB

    I appreciate that your even handed, fair minded attitude, but I’d be interested to understand better what you object to.

    I am not making any extreme statement that no other people has a capacity for spirituality – obviously there have been examples of high spirituality among many peoples, including Europeans.

    But I don’t see how it can be denied that Jews always took a special interest in religion and God above and beyond that found in other people’s of the region. Greece and Rome were quite secular minded – indeed it can be said their distinct contribution to the spiritual heritage of mankind was rationalism and secularism. And it cannot be denied that Judaism is the source for the religion of half the world – the West (including Islam).

    The very word Israel means “fear of God” – no other people actually adopted a name that suggested a special concern with God and religion.

    Even today, Jews do not focus on the material arts, like engineering, but on the more spiritual and theoretical subjects, so to speak.

    Anyways, the subject is very large and I could write much on it, but I think its reasonable to say that different people’s specialized and took as their special province different parts of life. The Northern Europeans for instance took engineering and the material aspects of life as their special province. The Italians and southerners in general took beauty, art, and the sensuous arts as their province. And it need not be controversial to say Jews took spirituality and God, with the caveat that of course in each area, there are many examples of people who excelled in provinces that were not their nations area of specialty.

    While there have been many great northern European spiritual people, I think even on this website we can see that people from that region seem especially preoccupied with the material and secular aspects of existence. Even though, strangely, misty northern forests and mountains have a real magic to them, and a rich mythology, and the North has mystical significance in many spiritual traditions.

    The only other people who appear to have a comparable preoccupation with religion and God are the Hindus, it would seem.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @PPB
  205. AaronB says:
    @AaronB

    And in Jewish tradition, we see ourselves as indeed the spiritual teachers of the people of the region – there is a widely known Kabbalistic tradition that says Greece – and Greek derived cultures, obviously – are supposed to join forces with Jews and Jewish derived cultures and cooperate, with Greece beautifying and building up the world, and the Jews providing spiritual instruction and guidance.

    And indeed we see that for a while, in Medieval Europe, this is precisely how it went – and it resulted in one of the worlds high cultures. It was only when the materialist Greek culture gained the upper hand and balance was lost, that the West began its slide towards destruction.

    Anyways, the Jewish self-conception is not that of highly intelligent people necessarily or people of great accomplishment in the material realm but of spiritual people, although that obviously requires a certain level of intelligence, but not necessarily the highest.

    In the Jewish conception, the relationship to the gentiles is not one of enmity and conflict, but cooperation and complementarity – Jews are supposed to be the spiritual instructors, and the gentiles are supposed to build up and beautify the world, which requires great engineering intelligence and artistic sensibility. It isn’t a simple relationship of superior and inferior – but one of two important functions. Jews believe each nation has its role to play.

    So unlike Christianity and Islam which seeks to make Judaism null and void and necessarily sees itself in conflict with it, Jews have a vision of cooperation.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  206. @Adrian

    This from your own article you pointed out to me.

    Wolfensohn is not naive. He knows that the Hamas election victory in January 2006 did not derive only from the collapse of the border-crossings agreement after the disengagement, but also from the years-long corruption of the Fatah leadership. He says he cautioned Fatah representatives with whom he was in contact about this danger, but they ignored him.

  207. The only explanation that I can see for all this spiritual nature of the Jew mumbo-jumbo — the evidence for which is so conspicuously lacking — is that we’re dealing with a lot of Chabad followers.

    Naturally, they can’t come right out and say it; that the Jew is the end, for which all else is the means, that we are all here to serve the Jew. So we get this bowdlerized, unconvincing nonsense instead.

    Why they would be so foolish as to advance even this is somewhat puzzling. I suppose the general idea is that we’re actually supposed to start buying it, to eventually be led to accept the ultimate proposition that we are here only to serve them. They are, after all, beings of a higher spiritual order. The soul of a Jew is worth so, so much more than the soul of any of us. We’ll all be much happier once we learn to accept this — and they’re trying to help us do just that.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  208. @Fran Taubman

    You know, Fran, you did say you were leaving.

    …yes, you definitely did.

    ‘No I am signing off I just wish people would let me go. Anon 232 just would not stop with his boo hoo Palestinian refugee stuff. Stolen land, etc. It was just too much.
    Just do not answer. I am determined to stop. It is a bit of addiction. You all flatter me so with your ” you hate the Germans”.
    I mean common some of this stuff is funny. And the Neo Nazis on here are like a vaudeville act.
    War crimes for American soldiers.
    Who could resist.
    Colin you really think the Jews are hated more then those flea bag Saudi Princes? Don’t answer that.
    Bid you all adieu.’

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  209. AaronB says:
    @Adrian

    Israel stands out among other colonizing nations for the quite special nastiness of its policies and the world wide effect these have.

    Lol, it is impossible to have an intelligent conversation with people who are so astonishingly historically illiterate. This has to be one of the most ignorant things I have ever read – and of course Colin Wright agrees 🙂

    Its amusing that you think this kind of insane hyperbole advances your cause. It makes you look like lunatics.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @Adrian
  210. @AaronB

    ‘And in Jewish tradition, we see ourselves as indeed the spiritual teachers of the people of the region – there is a widely known Kabbalistic tradition that says Greece – and Greek derived cultures, obviously – are supposed to join forces with Jews and Jewish derived cultures and cooperate, with Greece beautifying and building up the world, and the Jews providing spiritual instruction and guidance…’

    Yeah, this fits. It’s the Chabad idea of the Jew as the end of creation, whom all others serve. The Greek builds a beautiful world, while the Jew sits like an effendi and eats.

    Wait…maybe that’s a different tradition. Anyway, it’s what Aaron et al are feeding us — suitably modified, of course, to make it easier to swallow.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  211. @Colin Wright

    I am going the Brett Favre route.

  212. @Colin Wright

    Don’t go too deep Colin, on why we are here at UR.
    We are here defending Jews and Israel against an onslaught of dehumanization. It is not criticism we are against. One can argue spirituality all day. It is not my thing.
    I am here to spit at the people calling us inhuman and evil, implicating that biological we contain evil that ruins the world for our own gain and greed.

    It is racist and wrong. Racism anywheres towards any group should be stopped in its tracts.
    I give a rats ass what you think of Judaism, spirituality and or Chabad, and or me.
    I care about the lies and ignorance that allows you to perpetrate false ideas about the Jews, Judaism and Israel.

    And BTW

    The soul of a Jew is worth so, so much more than the soul of any of us. We’ll all be much happier once we learn to accept this — and they’re trying to help us do just that.

    You have been told a million times that most Jews do not literally believes this, except for the odd ball nut job which you should be able to relate to. Please do not show me a video of a nut ball Jew saying goyim are here to serve Jews. They are insane. Every group has its insane. But by a large do you see Jews trying to enslave goyim?

    These ideas were written by mystics like 2500 years ago at a different time and place. Jews do not and have never sought to rule over gentiles as their slaves. Get fucking real and deal with life as it is.

    You are unbelievable in your quest to make stupid more stupid.

  213. anonymous[224] • Disclaimer says:
    @Colin Wright

    You don’t even see the point. Yes, indeed.

    First of all, Israel is still a secular state and it has nothing to do with what has been said. There are factions within religious communities in Judaism which denounce the state of Israel, same as there are secular Jews who denounce religion. Though it can be said at the same time that Zionism is in essence a religious movement and that on the large scale most religious factions support the establishment of Israel, but it is important to understand that there is no consensus on this among the religious Jews at this time. Some Hasidic courts even denounce the usage of modern Hebrew.

    Second, I think that it would make sense for you to pack your stuff and rent an apartament in Ramallah. Live there for a couple of years, and I bet you will in the end come back to your peaceful Canada with a completely different outlook on both Islam and the Palestinian question. Once you get to know them, these wonderful people who are suffering so hard in the hands of so brutal Jews will appear in a different light before you, and you will know why Jews have to act the way they do when they are dealing with them. You have never been to Israel, I see nor have you ever been to Palestine so what are you talking about? Your fantasies?

    Go there and see for yourself with your own eyes how the things really are, talk to people, work with them, live with them and then you will have an understanding of what’s going on. For now, you are talking about something that is happening in your imaginagion. And I am quite sure and would even bet on this, that if you spend, say, one year in Israel and one in Palestine, you will reassess your opinions. The Arabs of Palestine are a tribal nation of a number of clans which are in a constant conflict even with each other, let alone with other peoples and least of all some Canadian pacifist would find a common language with them.

    That said, all of this has nothing to do with what I was talking about earlier.

    • Agree: Fran Taubman
  214. @AaronB

    ‘Israel stands out among other colonizing nations for the quite special nastiness of its policies and the world wide effect these have.

    Lol, it is impossible to have an intelligent conversation with people who are so astonishingly historically illiterate. This has to be one of the most ignorant things I have ever read – and of course Colin Wright agrees 🙂’

    Hmm. Well, lessee.

    German policies in the Ukraine might have been as bad — though not in the Baltic States, where the German in charge had fantasies of establishing some sort of hereditary dukedom, and so wasn’t as pointlessly vicious as Koch was in the Ukraine. There’s a certain correspondence between Jewish policies in Palestine and German policies in Poland — Aaron’s even looked forward to a status for the Palestinians similar to that the Germans had in mind for the Poles. Of course, the Germans often rather indiscriminately declared Poles ‘Germans’ — and the Jews in Palestine certainly can’t be accused of the equivalent, although ironically, it would probably be more justified.

    The Japanese in China? They were pretty awful…if they were facing resistance. I don’t know if they compared to Israelis when it came to wanton cruelty. Maybe so.

    Of course, what has to be noted is the utterly gratuitous pointlessness of it all. The Jews aren’t in Palestine in pursuit of any rational goal in the first place. It’s all just a morbid leftover of nineteenth century racial nationalism. Not just their victims, but they themselves would be happier if they were elsewhere.

    …and given a choice, Jews usually turn out to be elsewhere. Fran and Aaron are both here in the US. Go figure. For them, Israel isn’t even a necessity so much as kind of evil hobby — which only makes it all so much the worse.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @AaronB
  215. Kiel says:

    “It would also be fascinating to find out how Jewish anxiety translates into self-reflection.”

    ROFLMAO!!!!

  216. anonymous[224] • Disclaimer says:
    @Colin Wright

    Aaron was talking about the idea that Jews and secular people, a.k.a. gentiles, are or should be in a simbiotic relationship with each other. For the simple reason that secular people produce things which religious people can use, and religious people produce something which secular people can’t use. To this fact is related that idea.

    Yet what is important that first of all a gentile, regardless of his ethnic background can become a Jew if he wants to, and that secular Jews in this regard are also considered gentiles. This idea is not like the Hitler’s idea of the Master Race, but something entirely different. To put it simply, all people were created to serve God but not all people are able to do that, same as not all people are able to do art so is with religion.

    Just like an artist creates his art which not all people are able to appreciate, so are religious people who create something that not all people are able to appreciate. And same as an artist can use what other people create and cannot help them understand what he makes, so are the people of religion. That doesn’t mean that art is not needed does it? That doesn’t mean that an artist is a parasite.

    Another aspect of that which you get wrong is that assumption of yours that Jews consider all gentiles some kind of non-human beings. Had you been able to think like a grown man should you would see a logical contradiction in this ridiculous statement: how on earth in such a case would it be possible for a gentile to become a Jew and be fully accepted as equal, if indeed there was a concept like that?

    The idea is that until a person becomes aware of God, and understands his place in creation and the meaning of life in terms of spiritual experience he is not much different from an animal. And so those who do not understand that are called gentiles, and those who do are called the people of Israel. The same concept explains that there are Jewish souls everywhere among all the nations.

    You are ignorant in this regard. It would be much wiser to read at least one book on Judaism before talking about it, don’t you think? I’d recommend this: Major Trends in Jewish Mysticism. Otherwise it makes no sense to even spend time on writing this comment.

  217. renfro says:

    I am surprised unz hasn’t intervened in this thread and told Tubemen, Aaron and Colin to go get a room.

  218. @anonymous

    Wow brilliant writing. The idea that anyone can become a Jew kind of puts the entire supremacy thing to bed.
    But somehow I think no amount of logic will affect these people. There hatred is born out of irrationality and fear. Fear of an uncertain universe. No amount of explanation will be able to dispel their craziness.
    It’s so unbelievable to me to hear people say that Jews want to enslave non Jews, after living amongst them with no real proof of that. Like they live in a fantasy world.
    And you say to them. Do you see Jews enslaving non Jews? To know affect.

  219. AaronB says:
    @Colin Wright

    So the Israelis are now worse than the Japanese in China, worse than the rape of Nanking 🙂

    And there you have it ladies and gentlemen. I don’t think I have ever witnessed such a complete public destruction of an individuals credibility before.

    This has been awesome, Colin. You are the best critic of Israel one could possibly hope for. Please do go on and give us more. Count me among your fan club.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  220. AaronB says:
    @Colin Wright

    Can’t you just admit you’re some sort of Palestinian or related to one. I would have so much more respect for you than the fake ‘Colin Wright’ alias you are using 🙂

    I actually like Arabs, even Palestinians, and I like Muslims. You have nothing to be afraid of. We can argue then like men, with all our cards on the table.

  221. utu says:
    @AaronB

    “Can’t you just admit you’re some sort of Palestinian or related to one. “ – This also has occurred to me. While he makes many good points he focuses on Israel as the manifestation of Jewishness and Judaism. He did not take my bait when I wanted to turn the issue 180° that the problem are Jews and Judaism everywhere and not just Israel and its behavior.

    At some point for tactical reasons the critique of Judaism and Jews was replaced with the critique of Zionism and Israelis along the line of leftist anti-colonialism which obviously was a strategic mistake because the root of the problem is Judaism. However the more recent efforts by the Lobby to equate the critique of Israel and Zionism with anti-Semitism hopefully will result in embracing the full blown anti-Judaism by the anti-Zionists.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @AaronB
  222. @anonymous

    ‘… You are ignorant in this regard…’

    The difficulty is not that I am ignorant, but that I am not ignorant enough. For example, the founder of Chabad, Schneerson, taught that:

    ‘The difference in the inner quality between Jews and non-Jews is so great that the bodies should be considered as completely different species. An even greater difference exists in regard to the soul. Two contrary types of soul exist, a non-Jewish soul comes from three satanic spheres, while the Jewish soul stems from holiness.’

    Or perhaps even more damning, that:

    ‘“…the general difference between Jews and non-Jews: A Jew was not created as a means for some [other] purpose; he himself is the purpose, since the substance of all [divine] emanations was created only to serve the Jews.”

    “The important things are the Jews, because they do not exist for any [other] aim; they themselves are [the divine] aim.”

    “The entire creation [of a non-Jew] exists only for the sake of the Jews.”

    And we could go on, and on, and on.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  223. @AaronB

    ‘… Can’t you just admit you’re some sort of Palestinian or related to one. I would have so much more respect for you than the fake ‘Colin Wright’ alias you are using…”

    Okay; I’m a Palestinian. Suit yourself; I admit it.

  224. @AaronB

    ‘So the Israelis are now worse than the Japanese in China, worse than the rape of Nanking 🙂

    And there you have it ladies and gentlemen. I don’t think I have ever witnessed such a complete public destruction of an individuals credibility before.

    This has been awesome, Colin. You are the best critic of Israel one could possibly hope for. Please do go on and give us more. Count me among your fan club.’

    There is, of course, the minor detail that this isn’t what I said.

    • Replies: @Adrian
  225. anonymous[224] • Disclaimer says:
    @AaronB

    Oh no, he is not a Palestinian and is not related to one. He is a white dude in his fifties with a beer belly.

    At first I thought he was that afro-punk chick with orange hair whose photo he put in the header of his blog, but later as I began to notice how inadequate her responses were when I was making her compliments I opened his profile page. And I thought – shieet… Now I understand what the reason of his infatuation with Islam and Palestine is: a good looking black woman. Perhaps a Somalian immigrant. It is all prosaic here on this site.

    He is a fan of fishing 🙂

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  226. Truth3 says:
    @Fran Taubman

    The typical bullshit argument… people owing Jews thanks.

    Total bullshit.

    What the Jews have stolen from mankind would fund 1000x cures for all cancers… and have enough left over for all other diseases too.

    Get the phuque out of my world and take your hypocritical lying stink with you, you stupid bitch.

  227. @utu

    ‘This also has occurred to me. While he makes many good points he focuses on Israel as the manifestation of Jewishness and Judaism. He did not take my bait when I wanted to turn the issue 180° that the problem are Jews and Judaism everywhere and not just Israel and its behavior.’

    The distinction here is that while I don’t see much to admire in Judaism, that doesn’t mean I object to Jews — after all, most of them don’t seem to think much of the religion either.

    However, people can go ahead and practice it if they want to; I don’t mind. It’s just like I don’t object to Mormonism; theologically, it seems pretty wretched, but if you want to practice it, knock yourself out.

    What I do object to, though, is the ‘weaponization’ — so to speak — of Judaism in the service of Israel. That’s not to be endured.

    To try to make the distinction clear, I’ll tell you the story of the last camera I bought. Well, I got it from some Jewish-run mail order outfit in New York. Being reluctant to support Israel, I looked up what I could about it.

    It turns out the owners are Satmar Jews. So, the good news: Satmar Jews don’t support Israel. The bad news; they think that when the Messiah comes, all the bad gentiles will go to hell, and all the good gentiles will serve Jews as their slaves for all eternity.

    So I thought about that one for a bit. Okay, it’s not super-flattering…in fact, it’s kind of hurtful. On the other hand, whether it’s true or not is entirely academic until the Messiah does come — and then we’ll all find out whether the Satmars are right, won’t we? Approving or disapproving of the belief in the meantime won’t make the least bit of difference.

    So I bought the camera. The owners of the store can believe whatever they like. Just so long as I’m not helping to support Israel…

  228. @AaronB

    ‘… We can argue then like men, with all our cards on the table.’

    I wonder what it would be like if you did argue honestly — ‘like a man, with all your cards on the table’ as you put it.

    Could you do such a thing? I’m not certain you’re capable of it.

  229. @anonymous

    Well, you’re right about the fishing.

  230. @anonymous

    ‘…Another aspect of that which you get wrong is that assumption of yours that Jews consider all gentiles some kind of non-human beings. Had you been able to think like a grown man should you would see a logical contradiction in this ridiculous statement…’

    The dishonesty here is breathtaking. Compare the above with the following:

    ‘…For gentiles are like animals; they neither impart impurity nor become impure. A people compared to a donkey. The nations are like a drop in a bucket (Isaiah 40:15). Let the wind carry all of them away, and anyone who regards them as anything has gathered a handful of wind.”…’

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
    , @anonymous
  231. PPB says:
    @AaronB

    “…but I’d be interested to understand better what you object to.”

    I’m not really objecting to anything, and I appreciate your historical perspective, although I think you might have underplayed the Platonic current in ancient Greek culture a bit. But in my experience of current-day populations, Jews are neither more nor less spiritual, on average, than any other group I’ve encountered. So I thought that you’d overshot the mark a bit in assigning Jews a preeminent spiritual status, other talents prevalent among Jews notwithstanding. Sprituality can also assume different guises than those prevalent within a particular culture or established religion, and many of those, I suspect, simply go unnoticed from a historical viewpoint.

  232. @Colin Wright

    It is an abstract metaphysical idea related to the soul not the body.

    Yet what is important that first of all a gentile, regardless of his ethnic background can become a Jew if he wants to, and that secular Jews in this regard are also considered gentiles. This idea is not like the Hitler’s idea of the Master Race, but something entirely different. To put it simply, all people were created to serve God but not all people are able to do that, same as not all people are able to do art so is with religion.

    You can become a Jew and secular Jews are considered gentiles.
    The idea is for the soul to become a vessel for g-d. don’t laugh and I am not here to dispute it right or wrong. But for Christ sake understand that none of this is meant literally.
    You need to think outside of the material physical world.

    man are you dense.

    • Agree: AaronB, PPB
    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @Truth3
  233. @Fran Taubman

    ‘You can become a Jew and secular Jews are considered gentiles…’

    Sure they are, Fran.

    ‘… But for Christ sake understand that none of this is meant literally…’

    Ah. Ovadia Josef et al are just funning us, then.

    How about all those gentile children you take such delight in shooting down (https://youtu.be/olSBiC-kDpA)? Are they dead literally or metaphorically?

    ‘… man are you dense.’

    I distinctly recall you promising to go away.

  234. Truth3 says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Bitch are you a sophist.

    Fran Linda Rice Taubman, sock puppet witch extraordinaire.

    Get lost, finally. Just get the F lost.

  235. Adrian says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Your strength, if that is the word, is that your porkers are so outrageous that you force a reaction out of others, even though it is all a perfect waste of time. You wrote:

    “What horseshit!!. My niece was on the ground during the Gaza pullout. Entire families were uprooted for Palestinians to be self governing. I am ill informed!!!
    Those greenhouses created huge income and employment for the Palestinians and Jews when the Jews were running Gaza.
    Privately someone put up millions to keep those greenhouses going in the hopes of generating income. The Islamist burned them to the ground.”

    Your niece eh? Was your cleaning lady there as well by any chance? Well with all possible respect for the former, for the time being I prefer the testimony of James Wolfensohn on the matter and so, I am sure, would Peter Beinart, columnist of The Forward and a man with a quite distinguished journalistic record. He wrote:

    “American Jewish leaders usually tell the story this way: When the settlers left, Israel handed over their greenhouses to the Palestinians, hoping they would use them to create jobs. Instead, Palestinians tore them down in an anti-Jewish rage.”

    “But one person who does not endorse that narrative is the prime mover behind the greenhouse deal, Australian-Jewish businessman James Wolfensohn, who served as the Quartet’s Special Envoy for Gaza Disengagement. In his memoir, Wolfensohn notes that “some damage was done to the greenhouses [as the result of post-disengagement looting] but they came through essentially intact” and were subsequently guarded by Palestinian Authority police. What really doomed the greenhouse initiative, Wolfensohn argues, were Israeli restrictions on Gazan exports. “In early December [2005], he writes, “the much-awaited first harvest of quality cash crops — strawberries, cherry tomatoes, cucumbers, sweet peppers and flowers — began. These crops were intended for export via Israel for Europe. But their success relied upon the Karni crossing [between Gaza and Israel], which, beginning in mid-January 2006, was closed more than not. The Palestine Economic Development Corporation, which was managing the greenhouses taken over from the settlers, said that it was experiencing losses in excess of $120,000 per day. It was excruciating. This lost harvest was the most recognizable sign of Gaza’s declining fortunes and the biggest personal disappointment during my mandate.”

    I owe the Beinart quote to Matthew Gindlin who wrote a good piece on the matter which you can find here:

    https://medium.com/@MatthewZGindin/greenhouses-in-gaza-what-happened-ba22b1ac9fdd

    Gindlin also refers, inter alia, to a piece by Steven Erlanger in the New York Times in which that correspondent reported that the settlers destroyed half the 1000 acres of greenhouses before departure creating doubts whether the enterprise could be continued.

    He also refers to a report by the BBC dating from 2006 “ that because the farmers could not get their produce through the crossing, trucks were dumping perfect, ripe produce onto a wasteland to be eaten by goats.”

    It does indeed look as if your charming compatriot, Elliott Abrams, of Iran-Contra scandal notoriety, was responsible for sabotaging the
    agreement on the border crossings, exactly as Wolfensohn says. There are also good grounds for believing that he was behind the failed coup that led to the clash between Hamas and Fatah.

    Fran, your notion on what happened in Gaza can be blamed on your inorance, or your niece, or both. But that is not the case with Israel’s one time President Shimon Peres. In the notorious exchange with Erdogan in Davos in 2009 he repeated this lie about the Palestinians having destroyed the greenhouses. You can see and hear it here at 5.52:

    By then he had already come up with 2 other lies: viz. that the Palestinians did not elect Hamas but Abu Mazen and that Israel kept all the passages open (but they were bombed by the Palestinians he added at 5.53). Now Peres was always a liar, according to the late Uri Avnery who knew him well – but on that score he blended in nicely of course with the rest of the Israeli political establishment to begin with Netanyahu.

    Fran, the company you keep…

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  236. Adrian says:
    @AaronB

    Did I somehow miss your point here?

    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
  237. PPB says:

    As someone who isn’t Jewish either ethnically or religiously (I confess to a mild aversion to the term “Gentile” … a weird Latinized milquetoastism if there ever was one) I always saw something along these lines as the higher/deeper meaning of the Hebrew Bible, with “Israel” as a kind of synechdocal metaphor for humanity itself. But the situation worldwide, and with respect to far more than one religion, is that they’re widely interpreted and practiced at a much cruder and simplistic level— one that isn’t just incidentally loved by politicians keen to exploit the same. So what the Indian writer and politician Shashi Tharoor stated about India (“India is not, as people keep calling it, an underdeveloped country, but rather, in the context of its history and cultural heritage, a highly developed one in an advanced state of decay.”) can be read much more broadly and globally, and may not point to a merely temporal continuum of decay.

  238. Adrian says:
    @Fran Taubman

    I saw your statement that secular Jews are considered as gentiles (and therefore of low credibility in your eyes I presume). So as far as Beinart is concerned I hasten to add that according to his Wiki he keeps kosher, attends an orthodox synagogue regularly and sends his children to a Jewish school. Good enough?

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  239. SafeNow says:

    It’s genetic. Just as Jews have the interest-rate gene, the fastidiousness gene, and the talking gene, Jews also are history-wired to possess the “I’m being persecuted” gene. Philip Roth used terms like hyper-touchiness, inwardness, and alienation. Often a Roth protagonist resists the hyper-touchy impulses, trying to assume a water off a ducks back personality…but then he loses it…surrenders to his genetic fate.

  240. @Fran Taubman

    ‘Israels enemies encourages gratuity…’

    ? I could see a Chinese restaurant doing this, but…

  241. Truth3 says:

    Jewish verbal tactics and methods of deception… a partial list

    ambiguity, amplification, balderdash, baloney, bamboozle, beat around the bush, beguile, bilgewater, bilk, blather, bluff, bullshit, cajole, canard, cheat, claptrap, cock and bull, con, counterfeit, coyness, deceit / deceive / deception, decoy, defraud, delusion, diddle, diplomacy, dishonesty, disinformation, dissemble / dissimulation, distortion, double-cross, drivel, dupe, duplicity, equivocation, euphemism, evasion, exaggeration, fable, fabrication, fairy tale, fallacy, false flags, falsehood, falsification, falsity, fib, fiction, figure of speech, flattery, flimflam, fob, fool, forgery, fraud, game, generalization, gull, half-truth, hoax, hocus, hogwash, hornswoggle, humbug, hustle, hyperbole, imposture, inaccuracy, inveigle, invention, liar, libel, lie, malapropism, mendacity, misdirection, misinformation, mislead, misrepresentation, myth, omission, outright lie, perjury, poppycock, pretense, prevarication, propagandize, rumor-monger, sham, slander, song and dance, sophistry, spoofs, storytell, stretching of the truth, swindle, tall tale, tommyrot, trick, untruths, yarns

    • LOL: utu
  242. @Adrian

    ‘I saw your statement that secular Jews are considered as gentiles…’

    Secular Jews would only be considered as gentiles for purposes of her argument — such as it is. Of course secular Jews aren’t gentiles. How would they get into Israel? Think Aaron won’t be able to go back if he stops believing? Fran could take up Buddhism if she liked — she could still move there.

  243. @Adrian

    The operative words here is “a waste of time” so true.

  244. anonymous[224] • Disclaimer says:
    @Colin Wright

    Yes we can go on and on and on, as long as we continue to discuss these misrepresentations sourced out of pamphlets and not the real thing. You want me to reference the original quotation in Hebrew? You will I guess want to check it, to make sure I’m not telling lies as we Jews do all the time.

    Here is how to find it: google The Book of Tanya in its Hebrew Original. The first and second link are the ones of the original text and the English translation, both from the official site of Chabad. These passages are in the first and the sixth chapters, both of them are in the last paragraphs. Not hard to find and to check the Hebrew text in the Google Translate – because Jews often put fake translations online. The sixth chapter in Hebrew is פרק ו in the first part of the book, ליקוטי אמרים and the first chapter is פרק א from the same part. I think the translation is correct, but check it. Don’t trust me – I’m a Jew.

    And here is the thing:

    “[in a] Jew, whether righteous or wicked, are two souls… There is one soul which originates in the kelipah and sitra achra, and which is clothed in the blood of a human being… From it stem all the evil characteristics deriving from the four evil elements which are contained in it… From this soul stem also the good characteristics which are to be found in the innate nature of all Israel, such as mercy and benevolence. For in the case of Israel, this soul of the kelipah is derived from kelipat nogah, which also contains good… The souls of the nations of the world, however, emanate from the other, unclean kelipot which contain no good…” – this is from the first chapter.

    “However, the kelipot are subdivided into two grades, one lower than the other. The lower grade consists of the three kelipot which are altogether unclean and evil, containing no good… From them flow and derive the souls of all the nations of the world, and the existence of their bodies…” – this is from the sixth chapter.

    So if you are able to comprehend the text there are a few things which are misrepresented in that quotation. One is that “the bodies [of Jews and non-Jews] should be considered as different species” which contradicts the idea expressed herein: that all people, including Jews possess an animal soul and that the bodies of all animals, including people stem from the lowest spheres of the emanations of God. The distinction he assumes here is in the nature of these spheres, with one of them containing some good in it and the other not, but both of them are described as Sitra Achra which means the realm of evil. In other words, he writes that both Jews and non-Jews possess bodies and souls that belong to the lower world. Thus, both are of the same kind. He makes a distinction between them, as if comparing kind animals to predators though, but both are still animals so there is no basis for the statement that “the bodies [of Jews and non-Jews] should be considered as different species.” That is some racist bullshit.

    Also, he makes a reference there to the Talmud and writes, that all the good that the nations do is done from selfish motives or for their own self-glorification. Perhaps this sounds impolite, but let’s see what the European philosophers of that time thought about people. For example, Niccolò Machiavelli wrote in The Prince: “[It] is much safer to be feared than loved… The reason for this is that in general men are ungrateful, false cowards… Men are less worried about offending one who is loved than one who is feared…” and “[men] will always deceive, unless kept honest through constraint.” The classic.

    Or should we discuss the so moral religion of Christians too and take a look at the Hammer of Witches, a book that had been re-published 36 times through the course of the 15-17 centuries and was not a theoretical treatise but a manual for prosecutors, and had been put to a good use then?

    “[let] honest persons who are under no suspicion enter to her and advise her in confidence to confess the truth, promising that the Judge will be merciful to her. And finally let the Judge come in and promise that he will be merciful with the mental reservation that he means he will be merciful to himself or to the State; for whatever is done for the safeness of the State is merciful.”

    You see I hope that in comparison to this rabbi Shneur Zalman, whose words were misquoted in that pamphlet doesn’t look too bad. More so I think he makes sense. Machiavelli considered all people to be immoral; in Judaism it is considered that most people are but not all – there are good people who are scattered around the world among the nations as sparkles of light, and to assemble them under the roof of Torah is the ultimate goal of Jews so that their light combined together could become light upon the nations in which all gentiles will live. These “sparkles of light” are called the souls of Israel and this idea shows that Judaism is for all. You can become a Jew too, as I said earlier. No one will ever tell a gentile that he cannot be a Jew because he lacks the Jewish soul, since it is also considered that if one wants to become a Jew that is because a Jew he is and his Jewish soul is what wants it. You can even become a rabbi.

    That being said I think that there is no such thing as a true and perfect religion and I was disappointed to some degree with all of them, including Buddhism but I know that Judaism for sure is not the worst religion in the world since I am familiar with all of them. Trust me or not but all these pamphlets are slander. Judaism is deep, intelligent and fascinating. And in comparison to most other teachings more humane. You will not find a book like Hammer of Witches in Judaism. And Jews do not engage in religious wars with each other and do not slaughter heretics, and do not burn people at the stake. Philosophical ideas such as those found in the books of Machiavelli and Nietzsche, let alone Hitler are much more hateful than the Talmud but for some reason people think otherwise, while making no effort to compare. And there is a number of opinions on most questions in Judaism. The rabbi we are talking about for example is considered a radical and there are others who disagree with him. You can choose because there is no dogma and there is no Pope in Judaism.

    Read at least the article on Kabbalah in Wikipedia, for God’s sake.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  245. Adrian says:
    @Colin Wright

    The fact is that either Aaron hasn’t taken the trouble to read what Neumann wrote or, if he did, has not understood it.

    Hence his referring to the rape of Nangking etc. Quite apart from his confusion betwseen war and colonial situations (and my statement referred only to the latter) this is ignoring Neumann’s main thesis which is that the peculiar awfulness of Israel’s colonialism cannot be found in the number of corpses it has brought about (though he wrote that before the major onslaughts on Gaza) but in the “squeaky-clean sadism”, the minimalism of its methods and their fitness for gaining wider legitimacy. They rarely offer an opportunity for spectacular photographs or passionate rapportage. Take the situation at the check points. Let me quote Neumann again:

    .”Its most effective strategies are minimalist, as when Palestinians have to sit and wait at checkpoints for hours in sweltering cars, risking a bullet if they get out to stretch their legs, waiting to work, to get medical care, to do anything in life that requires movement from one place to another, as likely to be turned back as let through, and certain to suffer humiliation or worse. Israel has pioneered the science of making life unlivable with as little violence as possible. … Israel is an innovator in the search for a squeaky-clean sadism.”

    The situation is also obvious as far as torture is concerned though Neumann doesn’t mention this. The Israeli High Court outlawed torture twenty years ago and since then torture has, on the face of it, disappeared. But according to a recent article in Haaretz by Dr. Rachel Stroumsa, the executive director of the Public Committee Against Torture in Israel, torture is still going on. Apparently Shin Bet employs now methods however that leave no visible signs.

    Now Neumann’s concern is that these unspectacular, minimalist but vicious methods of control might, on the Israeli example, gain further acceptance and legitimacy worldwide.

    So I return to my statement that

    “Israel stands out among other colonizing nations for the quite special nastiness of its policies and the world wide effect these have” – a statement that caused our Aaron to blow his trumpet about my “astonishing historical illiteracy” and something similar in your case as if we had never heard about the prime exhibit for his accusation, the rape of Nangking.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  246. Eric135 says:

    It’s a funny thing about Jews…so many of them brag and think that they are superior when they are not (see my first comment in this discussion — which was, of course, ignored). And so many of them tell easily discredited lies.

    In the most recent 50 comments we are told by Jews (and those who foolishly believe them) that non-Jews (especially non-Jewish whites of European and Christian heritage) are lacking in spirituality and are crude materialists.

    After delivering what amounts to both a lie and an insult (Michelangelo, Bach, Mozart and Hegel — and hundreds more — put the lie to such a claim), the Jew softens his attack by putting his greasy hand on your shoulder and telling you that he didn’t mean to offend you, he was just offering his services to you as a uniquely gifted teacher and guide to not only raise you up to his level, but to “heal the world” into the bargain!

    This is followed by more lies: Anyone can become a Jew — it’s not a racial thing at all! Yes, that’s true if you’re Ivanka Trump or a British aristocrat. It’s not true if you’re an ordinary Joe, and the Jews know it.

    Or how about these whoppers: Jews don’t believe that goyim are soulless creatures (in spite of the fact that they not only believe it but say it over and over again), don’t think they are better (even though they constantly say or imply that they are), don’t want to enslave/control everyone, don’t think that Jews are the divine end to which the universe and the non-Jews are mere means, etc.

    Do all Jews believe these things? There are exceptions. But they are few and far between. Only a handful of Jews denounce the poisonous attitudes and actions of their brethren. The great majority of Jews support those attitudes and actions by participating in and contributing to thousands of organizations that advance “Jewish interests”. Not “human interests”, only “Jewish interests”.

    Schopenhauer put his finger on the problem a long time ago when he said that the Jews are best regarded as a “nation” — an international nation that existed long before the current nation of Israel existed — an international nation with the unique ability and compulsion to infiltrate, rule and destroy other nations.

    Schopenhauer said that it would be foolish for any non-Jewish people to allow Jews into their government. But that is what has happened over and over again.

    But we shouldn’t be complacent. The final nails are being pounded into the coffin of white Western Civilization as Jews and their paid lackeys are in the forefront of flooding white nations with non-white immigrants, urging discrimination against (non-Jewish) white people, demonizing (non-Jewish) white people, etc.

    Just review the statements of Susan Sontag, Tim Wise, Noel Ignatiev, Nicolas Sarkozy and Barbara Lerner Spectre. Or listen to Nick Griffin’s speech to the European Parliament.

    While they are destroying the rest of us, the Jews have their armed camp of Israel to flee to if things get uncomfortable for them.

    Isn’t it about time that the goyim woke up? This is not a new story. Both in legend and in fact, Jews have been poisonous to their host nations — nay, they have been veritable Trojan Horses of subversion, betrayal and destruction.

    Should we blame them for this? Not at all. We let them do it! The thing is not to hate them, but to stop them. And that begins with raising people’s awareness.

    The fate of the Palestinians is the fate of all of us for as long as the Jews have power.

  247. Zumbuddi says:
    @Eric135

    Jimmy Carter opened the gates of Washington, DC to the Trojan Horse holocaust museum.

  248. @anonymous

    ‘Yes we can go on and on and on…’

    You were like Fran. You weren’t going to post any more.

  249. @Eric135

    ‘Do all Jews believe these things? There are exceptions. But they are few and far between…’

    I’ll do most Jews – at least, Jews here in America — the credit to believe they don’t believe this crap.

    However, we’re not dealing with ‘most Jews’ on this thread. It’s a little cell of Chabadnik/Zionists.

    It’d be like talking to a group of Neo-Nazis and equating them with all Germans.

    Admittedly, the analogy is a little unfair. Nazis usually tend to be honest about what they believe. They don’t try to turn it into something else.

  250. @Adrian

    Adrain have you ever been to Israel? Do you know any Israelis, any soldiers in the IDF?

    You are just dripping with superiority over your articles and videos, not even the least bit of gray.
    You are superior and secure in your info and hatred of all things Israel. from newspaper clippings!!!

    If you were to travel to Israel you would soon discover that there are 1.7 million Arab citizens. They are doctors, lawyers, judges and parliamentarians. They also sever in the IDF.
    Your discussions are so alien to the facts on the ground they cannot be even called propaganda they are more sinister then that.
    If you toured Ramallah or the west bank you would also find wealth and middle class Palestinians living in major housing complexes.
    Before all the checkpoints and walls there was a 2nd intifada where suicide bombers blew themselves up in Pizza parlors. 1000 Israelis died in those suicide attacks. Thus the strident security measures.
    Look around to see how quickly chaos can descend into a failed state.
    I am not defending what Israel is doing as being good or bad it is necessary to protect the civilian populations both Arab and Israeli.
    Gaza is what it is because their leaders want to destroy Israel and kill Jews they openly admit that.
    That is why the border is on lock down not because the Jews take pleasure or are sadist.
    You cannot let murders who want to destroy you come into your country will nilly. Hamas built hundreds of tunnels that ended up in schools.
    Yet you take none of this seriously, which I do not mind but stop pretending like you know what is really going on over there from newspaper articles and writers who hate Jews and Israel.
    The situation is far more complex then what you write.
    Go visit there and then start you rants.
    Most of my family live there and I have relatives in the IDF they are not my cleaning people.

    • Replies: @Adrian
  251. @Eric135

    ‘It’s a funny thing about Jews…so many of them brag and think that they are superior when they are not…’

    Well, as I mentioned a while back, one distinction is that gentile mediocrities usually don’t feel obliged to pretend otherwise about themselves. They know they’re not too bright, but it seems to them…and they get on with it.

    Jews, on the other hand, take pride in their collective intelligence, and so even the dimmer lights of the tribe assume they must be bright. See Fran Taubman’s reference to her ‘intellectual heft.’ Aaron feels obliged to provide us with his irritating simulacrum of erudition and intellectual depth. I’ve encountered other Jews who are literally irritating in their compulsion to be compete intellectually. Conversation turns into some kind of convoluted spelling bee.

    I have, by the way, seen similar among Chinese. I suppose that among any people who emphasize intelligence, everyone is going to feel compelled to at least fake it.

    It’s annoying. It would be merely pathetic — but when it’s put to the service of such evil ends, it’s annoying.

  252. ‘…In the most recent 50 comments we are told by Jews (and those who foolishly believe them) that non-Jews (especially non-Jewish whites of European and Christian heritage) are lacking in spirituality and are crude materialists….’

    That too is annoying, since my impression — and nothing Aaron or anyone else has said has done anything to alter it — is that Judaism is a collection of arid sterilities consisting of pedantic debates over arcane bits of text from Late Antiquity. There’s nothing there — and the emptiness of modern Judaism seems to reflect that.

    This compares to the almost limitless spiritual ecstasies of Christianity — something I can’t really relate to, but I can see. I don’t know enough about Islam to compare, but absent the subject coming up, I’ll assume the same is true of that faith as well.

    The irony is that I suspect what ‘spirituality’ Judaism has managed to create over the last few hundred years — the Hasids et al — is ultimately an attempt to imitate Christianity. Not that I know enough to be sure — but that is the impression I have. The emphasis on the afterlife and the resurrection, for example — that’s Christianity more than Judaism. Of course, logically Judaism would have drawn on Islam as well. After all, Jews have been a small and often oppressed minority in the great sea of often very religiously fervent Christian and Muslim communities; their faith was bound to be colored by what was around them.

    Alternatively, in one respect the medieval Christians may have had it right. The allegorical figures of ‘Theologica’ and ‘Synagogia’ really are appropriate. ‘Theologica’s’ eyes are open to the ecstasies of Christianity — whatever precisely those are — while ‘Synagogia’ is blindfolded, trapped in the arid sterilities of her dead and legalistic faith. Hence the popularity of — and the threat posed by — such groups as ‘Jews for Jesus.’ Jews sincerely seeking a spiritual life are likely to turn to Christianity — not Aaron’s empty proclamations.

    But there. I could be wrong. Suffice it to observe that Aaron et al certainly aren’t right.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  253. DaveE says:
    @anon

    Yep. The Jews mocking us once again. Al “Big Daddy” Baghdadi…… but don’t worry, Moische. We’ll just snicker and tell ourselves how witty and funny We are, since the dumb Goyim will never catch our oh-so-sly, subtle “humor”.

    Like ISIS….. the Israeli Secret Intelligence Service as described by Dan Raviv. Tee Hee.

    • Replies: @DaveE
  254. DaveE says:
    @DaveE

    ….and Yossi Melman. Here:

    • LOL: Fran Taubman
  255. anonymous[224] • Disclaimer says:
    @Eric135

    You are misunderstanding.

    There are three Jews here. It was Aaron who said that gentiles are “lacking in spirituality” meaning spiritual thinking. And that is true, because no gentile nation in Europe has produced their own theosophical thought – name one. For when it comes to philosophical thinking, European gentiles have always been focused on secular matters. And on the topics of religion all the ideas that gentiles have been using, interpreting them as they see fit, are the ideas adopted from Jews. This is a simple fact.

    However I and I most other Jews too would disagree with Aaron that gentiles lack “spirituality” because it is obviously not so. The problem is perhaps that first of all the Church had been suppressing all efforts, with no exception to create any other religious teaching for like 15 centuries, and eliminated all those who were trying to do that. Two of the most notable examples were the heretical movements of Bogomils and Cathars – both of them exterminated, completely uprooted.

    Also all of the individuals who were able to formulate anything “spiritual” of their own, worth mentioning, anything notable were burned as heretics. For example Giordano Bruno. Thus, what was left was the sphere of art alone. And even here the Church had been meddling for many centuries, forbidding for example the use certain musical intervals and limiting in this way the ability to create. The Church has done so much damage it is almost impossible to estimate. And in return it didn’t provide people with anything good at all. It has been almost diabolical.

    So what was left for gentiles in Europe was art, and in my humble opinion a true art is a direct expression of spirituality. And any “Hellenistic” Jews, such as myself will tell you straight that Jews have learned all about art from the gentiles, first from the Greeks and later from the Europeans. No one will ever deny this. And in this department Jews have always beel lacking in comparison to the nations. For the orthodox Jews, it doesn’t even matter, because all the “art” to them is in the books. And they truly excell in this kind of art. But anything else – it’s with the gentiles. Everybody knows that.

    But what Aaron means is what is written somewhere in the Talmud, that the gentiles have some wisdom but do not have the Law: all the wisdom of the gentiles is secular. And for this reason – otherwise, for which one – the gentiles had to adopt all the religious ideas from Jews. Same as we Jews had to adopt all arts from gentiles. This is the truth, and this is again what Aaron said when he was talking about the union between gentiles and Jews, which I called a simbiotic relationship. What we want is to end the hostility and to reach a mutual acceptance, and it is you, gentiles who are opposing this idea, being not prepared to accept the simple thruth that there are things that Jews do better.

    And no, Jews do not think and do not consider that gentiles have no soul, and there is no such thing written in any of the Jewish books, and Jews do indeed accept converts and it is true indeed that “ordinary Joe” can convert and become a Jew. I personally am acquanted with three converts and trust me, none of them is a British aristocrat. You can google “So You Want to Convert to Judaism? It’s Not That Easy” and read a really good article in Haaretz. It is explained there in detail how, when and who can convert and what to expect from it, where to go and with whom to talk. Don’t be a XXXX. Read it.

  256. joe862 says:

    I think the failure of jews to move to israel is extremely telling and I’m surprised it’s not emphasized more. They’re deathly afraid of antisemitism and persecution, yet they’d rather live with it than someplace populated and run by jews. They obviously either aren’t nearly as afraid of antisemitism as they claim, or the thought of living someplace full of jews is as unbearable to them as it is to everyone else. It’s obvious and amusing.

    • Agree: Eric135
    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  257. @anon

    Did he do 9/11 also. All Jews all the time. Just hilarious.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  258. anonymous[224] • Disclaimer says:
    @Colin Wright

    Your impression is wrong. And how can it be right if you don’t know anything? And not only you don’t know, but you don’t want to know. You think it your right to have an opinion and speak out, however ignorant it can be, your voice must be heard.

    Listen, esoteric Judaism existed before Christianity. There are very ancient Jewish esoteric books, that predate Hasidism by centuries. I told you, read one seroius research on the topic before talking about it. You sound ignorant and it is ridiculous how stubborn you are in this ignorance.

    Read Gershom Scholem’s “Major Trends in Jewish Mysticism.” It is a very interesting book, well-written too. You will not regret buying it. I can promise that if you read it you will form a new and different opinion on Judaism. It is not as bad as you think.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  259. @anonymous

    ‘Although I don’t comment here no more…’

    Is this your third or fourth comment since then?

  260. @Fran Taubman

    ‘Did he do 9/11 also. All Jews all the time. Just hilarious.’

    We do know that, at a minimum, Jews knew it was going to happen and kept it a secret. That much is established fact.

    …is that hilarious as well? Mildly amusing, anyway? Come on…give us a little smirk, Fran. Who’s a good little Franny, then?

  261. @anonymous

    These people are not interested in the true. Their Jew hatred and conspiracy theories are comforting to them. It makes the world manageable to know there is a one big bad force to deal with.
    Jew hatred and Jewish conspiracy theories are comforting to them.
    Israel did 9/11, they are ISIS, they are evil. They want to enslave goyim. They torture Palestinians.
    No flashlight on the truth is going to change their minds.
    Jew hatred is just so delicious and easy to explain their fears away.
    The ISIS on just cracks me up, I never heard that Al Quida was Jewish.
    The Al Baghdadi is a Mossad agent is the best conspiracy to date I have heard.

    • Replies: @DaveE
    , @anonymous
  262. Adrian says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Fran who made the glass house industry in Gaza impossible? That was the question, not whether or not I have lived in Israel, have an aunt in Ramallah or a nephew in the IDF. To bring in these latter things is only a form of the “argumentum ad hominem”.

    So who did Fran – blocking the glass house industry I mean.

  263. @joe862

    ‘They’re deathly afraid of antisemitism and persecution…’

    They’re not at all concerned about ‘anti-semitism and persecution.’ If they were, they wouldn’t ignore the dozens of avowed — and often very extreme — anti-semites writing on this site, both as authors and as posters.

    Instead, what they are concerned to undermine is criticism of Israel. That is always the end, and accusations of ‘anti-semitism’ are just a club to intimidate and silence such criticism.

    None of the Zionists posting here are in the least concerned about anti-semitism in and of itself. Why should they be? In America, it’s not a problem — as I pointed out some time back.

  264. anon[144] • Disclaimer says:

    pritty soon it will come out that jews start fires in california to scare all those rich eyeranian jews into rushing to israel.
    it’s a holocaust i tells ya.

    that’s not so far fetched — jews are good at starting fires
    it’s likely jews are responsible for hurricanes over florida — heavens waiting room for jews — oh wait, jews don’t have heaven . . . no matter: tons of rich jews in florida and pisrael wants their money. why pay inheritance taxes to the nation where they’ve lived and prospered all their lives?

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  265. Robjil says:
    @Colin Wright

    The Polish Kingdom 1025- 1569, Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth 1569- 1764, Pale of Settlement 1764-1917, was the most tolerant region to Jews for a thousand years. It was a Catholic till 1764 then Orthodox Christian rule till 1917.

    In Muslim world, Jews were dhimmis like Christians. They were not allowed to have much power over non-Jews as this region in Europe. Ashkenazis learned to look down on European peasants for a thousand years since they had the upper hand as merchants, money lenders and liquor sellers.

    Ashkenazis take the same look down on European peasants thinking everywhere they go. The US and the entire western world is getting a big shake down by Zion Ashkenazi MSM about how bad European peoples are and they need lots of immigrants to change their societies. It all comes from those thousand years of treating the European peasants like trash. It is a habit.

    This habit may destroy the western world. European peoples created the western world. Without them, Ashkenazis will have a hard time to looking down on non-European peoples or making non-European peoples to follow their orders. Why? Ashkenazis and Jews in general have no history of doing that. Muslims never allowed Jews to have the upper hand to abuse their peasants. Ashkenazis and Jews will not be happy in a world without the European peoples. The game will be over.

  266. @anonymous

    ‘…And that is true, because no gentile nation in Europe has produced their own theosophical thought – name one…’

    Oh, not that it’s really my field, but how about Thomas a Kempis, Saint Teresa, Saint Francis, John Bunyan…among the less mystically inclined we have Thomas Aquinas, Saint Anselm, Martin Luther, Calvin…

    Perhaps the problem here is that you’re automatically subtracting anyone theologically inclined from the philosophical canon. Well, in that case, it’s hardly surprising you can’t name any examples of theological thinkers, isn’t it?

    No offense, but the Jews posting on this thread are really offering an astonishing display of ignorance. Surely the tribe can do better? I would have assumed it could.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  267. DaveE says:
    @Fran Taubman

    The way we know that (((YOU))) did 9/11 is because (((YOU))) act so damn guilty every time it’s mentioned. I talked to maybe 100 Jews in the intervening years and EVERY time, (((they))) would go ballistic if you even dared to point out any of the VERY credible evidence of a Mossad operation, planned for years, that is entirely consistent with what Jews themselves constantly say about their “divine” destiny.

    INCLUDING my best friend in high school, a Russian Jew who told me, IN 1978, after a meeting with his uncle, who lived in Israel part-time, that:

    “You know, you WASPs think you can keep us (Jews) down forever. But I’m going to tell you, there will come, in OUR LIFETIME, one singular event that will turn it all around for us. No longer will we have to listen to anything you say.”

    Those were his exact words. I remember the conversation like it was yesterday because it was so bizarre. I thought he was insane for the next 23 years, but by 9/12/2001 I realized otherwise. I knew he spilled the beans and told the truth, very unusual for a Jew. He went on to become a card-carrying zionist POS (I know you love that acronym Fran…) and became some kind of teacher at Jewish schools, preaching the hate he was just starting to learn when we were young. Poor kids…….

    You’re busted. Don’t even waste your time trying to lie your way out of THIS one.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  268. @DaveE

    Wow!!! Thanks for the warning. And what a coincidence with your child hood friend tipping you off to the future of 9/111
    You should write about your experience warn the world.

  269. AaronB says:
    @utu

    You are as astute as ever, utu. For tactical reasons anti-Semites shifted to a critique of Zionism, as the only form of nationalism that is illegitimate (principled anti-nationalists reject all its forms and have no particular interest in Zionism per se. The anti-Semites you know by their singling out Israel).

    But already Colin is finding it hard to stick to his chosen tactic. He frequently lets out attacks on Jewish culture, religion, and Jews themselves, revealing his full hatred – he is too hot headed and not disciplined enough to keep up the facade of having no problem with Jews and only Israel (although as mentioned, singling out Israel is quite illogical enough to forfeit claims of innocence).

    In this thread alone he explains how he finds Judaism uniquely worthless among the three faiths, and even mentions that “Jews” knew about 9/11 and did nothing – this last alone is more than a crack in the facade, but gives the full game away 🙂

    So utu you are getting your wish — Colin is revealing, slowly but now more rapidly, his hatred of Jews and Jewishness, like you.

  270. @anon

    ‘pritty soon it will come out that jews start fires in california to scare all those rich eyeranian jews into rushing to israel.
    it’s a holocaust i tells ya…’

    Oh, I get it. You’re just pretending to be an ignorant, bigoted gentile.

    You’re really a smart, educated Jew, aren’t you?

  271. anonymous[224] • Disclaimer says:
    @Colin Wright

    The dishonesty here is breathtaking. Compare the above with the following:

    “For gentiles are like animals; they neither impart impurity nor become impure. A people compared to a donkey. The nations are like a drop in a bucket (Isaiah 40:15). Let the wind carry all of them away, and anyone who regards them as anything has gathered a handful of wind.”

    Yes indeed. Breathtaking. YOU now compare the above with the following:

    “But anyone attuned to an egalitarian ethic will be deeply shaked by Ravad’s extraordinary outburst in response to Maimonides’ admittedly surprising ruling that a gentile’s slaughter, while not rendering the animal fit for consumption, can remove it, if only on the level of biblical purity law, from the status of nevelah: ‘This is one of his ideas, and none of them is less worthwhile than this one. For gentiles are like animals; they neither impart impurity nor become impure. A people compared to a donkey. The nations are like a drop in a bucket (Isaiah 40:15). Let the wind carry all of them away, and anyone who regards them as anything has gathered a handful of wind.’

    This is no ordinary disagreement even by the standards of Ravad’s tempestous personality, and we are eminently justified in seeing it through the prism of the Jewish experience in medieval Europe. I do not advocate mechanical historicizing of such statements, nor do I believe that positions influenced by a rabbi’s experience should automatically be discounted. Nonetheless, not only do I see no religious obligation to read the formulation of this stricture in a historical vacuum; the change in context is precisely what gives us the right to denounce a contemporary Jew who would use this language while retaining our reverence for the great medieval Talmudist.

    Sometimes the relationship between sharp language and the essential position is more intimate, and it appears more difficult to separate the two. One can assert, for example, that Jewish law does not recognize some gentile family relationships or that sexual relations between a Jewish woman and a non-Jewish man do not have certain legal consequences without resort to demeaning categories. In these instances, however, the Talmud’s assertion of the former position and Rabbenu Tam’s affirmation of the latter are explicitly grounded in the biblical verse that ‘their issue is the issue of horses.’ Nonetheless, it is beyond question that neither the Talmud nor Rabbenu Tam held the generalized position that gentiles are not to be considered human; the extreme language here was generated by the biblical verse, and its application is limited to the immediate contexts.

    Rabbenu Tam’s reaction to the well-known Talmudic assertion that Jews are called adam while gentiles are not demonstrates his readiness to assign untrammaled ‘adamhood’ to non-Jews. Tosafot notes an apparently contradictory Talmudic statement, based on a verse containing the word ha-adam, that a gentile who studies Torah is like a high priest.”

    — Formulating Responses in an Egalitarian Age (The Orthodox Forum Series), pp. 85-86

    So WHO is dishonest NOW?

    I don’t know what your problem is, perhaps you are indeed DENSE, as Fran said or is that because of some mental issues, as Aaron said, I don’t know but I think that this stubborness with which you and others here continue to slander on Jews and Judaism is something pathological. And the manner in which you do it is very strange.

    You quote phrases from the Bible and say “Look what you Jews wrote three thousand years ago! You are a racist race!” and no one seems to remember that the Bible is considered the word of God but the Christians too. You take phrases from the Talmud out of context and present them as statements of the Jewish creed, when in fact most of them are polemical arguments. You continue to post fake quotations from stupid pamphlets and pretend to not understand that it’s bullshit. You are acting strange.

    And I thought at first he was smart.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @joe862
  272. AaronB says:
    @Colin Wright

    Colin, those people were working within the theosiphical tradition created by Jews, Christianity.

    We agreed there have been spiritual men and women among Europeans, of course, but that Europeans did not create any theosophical system of their own. They labored in vinyards planted by Jews. This is worthy of respect, certainly, but is not the same thing.

    So I’m afraid you didn’t fully understand the point. It’s a bit subtle and can be overlooked, so I am not blaming you.

    • Replies: @anon
    , @Colin Wright
  273. @anonymous

    ‘Yes indeed. Breathtaking…’

    Here we go again. You did say you were leaving.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  274. @AaronB

    ‘… So utu you are getting your wish — Colin is revealing, slowly but now more rapidly, his hatred of Jews and Jewishness, like you.’

    Is this because I am Palestinian, or in spite of the fact I am Palestinian?

    In any case, as I have explained before, Aaron, it’s not Jews I have contempt for — just you.

    Don’t try to hide behind your race, Aaron. Take responsibility for your own lies and their consequences. No one’s on your case because you’re Jewish. We’re on your case because you’re Aaron.

    You’re the human equivalent of sewage. Not your people — just you.

  275. joe862 says:
    @anonymous

    The only question is how can jews and gentiles part ways. What everyone really wants is to not have to deal with jews. You’ve got your own country now and haven’t gone there. Do you need another country? There aren’t that many of you so it’s not like you’ll have any use for a huge amount of land. What could gentiles do to convince you to go live amongst yourselves and leave us alone. We’ll leave you alone and you leave us alone.

  276. anon[242] • Disclaimer says:
    @AaronB

    Colin, those people were working within the theosiphical tradition created by Jews, Christianity.

    The Jewish establishment of the 1st century did everything in its power to destroy the early church…they had Christ killed (Sanhedrin the driving force behind the trial), later directly martyred St Stephen and James the Just. It’s bizarre and a sign of a pathological superiority complex when you, the spiritual descendant of that establishment, try to claim credit for Christianity.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @anonymous
  277. @AaronB

    ‘In this thread alone he explains how he finds Judaism uniquely worthless among the three faiths, and even mentions that “Jews” knew about 9/11 and did nothing – this last alone is more than a crack in the facade, but gives the full game away’

    Pretty average for Aaron. A misstatement of what I said, and a denial of a definite fact.

    I explicitly described Judaism as comparable to another Abrahamic faith, and of course Israeli Jews really were watching 9/11 as it happened.

    All you do is dig yourself in deeper, Aaron — but keep shoveling.

    I’ll be here.

  278. anonymous[224] • Disclaimer says:
    @Fran Taubman

    As a great philosopher Toni Montanides said, “You need people like me, so you can point your fingers and say – this is the Bad Man… So what does it make you? Good? You are not good. You just know how to hide… How to LIE.”

    If Jews began to post this kind of crap about them, pulling quotations from the Christian treatises on how to torture heretics, and from neo-Nazi sites, where they praise Satan and teach how to sacrifice people, I’d like to see how they would react. I am surprised that Jews are not doing this. Just look at the Order of Nine Angels website. Read about the three BILLION dollars that the Pope has paid to the victims of the pedophile priesthood. Read Machiavelli, Nietzsche, Hitler. Look what Christians did to the native Americans, to the Negroes. Where is “forty acres and a mule” HUH? They are hypocrites.

    They need a Monster, so they can point their fingers at him. This is why they have to lie. All day every day. If they stop for a day, on that day there will be no monster. And this is what they are afraid of – to realize that they are not good.

    But they know how to hide.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  279. @AaronB

    ‘…but that Europeans did not create any theosophical system of their own…’

    That wasn’t the statement. The statement was,

    ‘…no gentile nation in Europe has produced their own theosophical thought…’

    That statement is false. Try to understand that there are true statements, and there are false statements. You can say 2 and 2 make 4, and that is true. But if you say 2 and 2 make 5, that is false.

    Can you understand that? You’ll say ‘yes,’ of course — but then go right back to lying. It’s utterly disgusting.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  280. anonymous[224] • Disclaimer says:
    @Colin Wright

    Am I making you feel uncomfortable, sweetheart?

    I left and I have come back. I’ll be dropping a comment every once in a while. That is, if you don’t mind. I hope you have no problem with that.

    You have a problem with that?

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  281. @anonymous

    ‘… I’d like to see how they would react. I am surprised that Jews are not doing this. Just look at the Order of Nine Angels website. Read about the three BILLION dollars that the Pope has paid to the victims of the pedophile priesthood. Read Machiavelli, Nietzsche, Hitler. Look what Christians did to the native Americans, to the Negroes. Where is “forty acres and a mule” HUH? They are hypocrites…

    But Jews do do this. Witness your post.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  282. AaronB says:
    @Colin Wright

    Glad to see you dropping the its only Israel stuff and talking frankly about the “Jews” 🙂

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  283. @anonymous

    ‘…You have a problem with that?’

    I do, actually. People like you are a real drag.

  284. @anon

    ‘The Jewish establishment of the 1st century did everything in its power to destroy the early church…they had Christ killed (Sanhedrin the driving force behind the trial), later directly martyred St Stephen and James the Just. It’s bizarre and a sign of a pathological superiority complex when you, the spiritual descendant of that establishment, try to claim credit for Christianity…’

    There’s also the minor detail that there are some enormous differences between the historical Jesus, and even the Christianity of the early church, and the various successive stages of Christianity through the ages. Whoever Jesus was, and whatever he taught, it probably bears all too little resemblance to the Christian theology we are familiar with. Pious Christians will disagree with that, of course, but…

    Everything owes something to its antecedents. If Christianity did have its origins in Judaism, Judaism itself was obviously some development of the various religious practices of Mesopotamia, ancient Persia, and so on. Should we accuse Jews of being nothing but latter-day Sumerians?

    • Replies: @anonymous
  285. Adrian says:
    @AaronB

    You wrote:

    “. For tactical reasons anti-Semites shifted to a critique of Zionism, as the only form of nationalism that is illegitimate”

    Colonialism Aaron, not nationalism. There is a big difference.

    For tactical reasons Zionists have chosen the term “nationalism”. “We are not neo-colonials” says Netanyahu, But Netanyahu Sr., Benzion, a one time employee of Jabotinsky and a full time follower would have disagreed I think.

    “…Jabotinsky would have dismissed Netanyahu’s “We are not neo-colonials” as dishonest evasion. He never shirked the language of colonialism, never denied that the Zionists were settlers and never regretted that this settlement was taking place under the auspices of the British Empire. What Netanyahu correctly, if quite unintentionally, identified is a central problem for Israel and her supporters today. “Britain was a colonial power, and colonialism has been spurned,” the prime minister said two years ago. He is correct. Colonialism has gone out of fashion, along with imperialism and the language of “higher grade” races, used by Churchill to express his support.”
    That is part of the problem today for Israel, which finds itself on the wrong side of a great rupture between “the West” and “the rest.” “

    ( Geoffrey Wheatcroft, “Zionism’s colonial roots” in The National Interest May 1 2013)

    So colonialism and, as the late Tony Judt pointed out many years ago, an anachronistic form of colonialism. Why anachronistic? Because it is no longer possible for a settler colony to marginalize entirely a native population as happened in settler colonies like the US, Canada and Australia. And this is most certainly the case when that native population has, potentially, the support of hundreds of millions of the world’s population. Israel is in its present form living on borrowed time – and those most blind to this are those living inside it and tell us, outsiders, that we got it all wrong because we are not living there.

    • Agree: Colin Wright
    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @Fran Taubman
  286. @Reality Cheque

    MEANINGLESS all jews are jewish and its the same talmudic kabbalah mishnah agenda from Bill Cohen to Eric Cantor to Schumer to Zion crypto Hillel Kook Pelosi its the same, get a life hegel boi

  287. @AaronB

    more ignorant pathetic dead schizo JIDF “phrases” its shem you blithering idiot and some word a Rothschild funded crypto jew Marxist made up 120 years ago in Germany as apart of a fake controlled op political party is not legitimate….the reason people oppose and have emnity with the Jews is the fact they are satanic as hell and talmudic/kabbalahistic get a life liar….90% of “jews” aren’t even racially connected to the Shemitic peoples they are Scythian/Khazarian/Turks converted by dictate 1200 years ago proven by legitimate dna tests and of course written jewish history dating over 1000 years confirmed by multiple empires and historical research of antiquity…get a load of it a bunch of crazy lunatics calling themselves jewish when according to their own pedophile nut racist cult they are goyim…go talmud thump elsewhere

  288. @AaronB

    ‘Glad to see you dropping the its only Israel stuff and talking frankly about the “Jews”’

    I’ve always talked frankly about Jews (why ‘Jews’ should be in quotes escapes me). I’ve said exactly what I think.

    Obviously, you feel a need to discover me saying something I haven’t said, but I can’t help that.

  289. anonymous[224] • Disclaimer says:
    @anon

    The Jewish establishment of the 1st century did everything in its power to destroy the early church…they had Christ killed (Sanhedrin the driving force behind the trial), later directly martyred St Stephen and James the Just. It’s bizarre and a sign of a pathological superiority complex when you, the spiritual descendant of that establishment, try to claim credit for Christianity.

    Jesus was condemned as a heretic and so were St Stephen and James the Just. Look up “The list of people burned as heretics.” You will see that the Church had murdered hundreds of them. In the most brutal fashion. That doesn’t bother you at all, does that? And I am not even talking about the hundreds of thousands of their followers who were massacred. I’m talking about the leaders, who were to the Church what Jesus, St Stephen and James the Just were to the Jewish establishment then: the people who rebel.

    However, the Jewish establishment didn’t murder all the followers of Jesus, as the Church would have done for sure, but instead excommunicated them. And in fact it happened at about the time right before the First Council of Nicaea in 325 CE or a bit earlier. Until then there were hundreds of thousands of Jews who followed the New Testament – the Nazarenes. It was their hard work which brought all the Jewish religious ideas to the gentiles. It was them who were being persecuted and burned at the stake in Rome, and fed to beasts.

    And then after the schism between Jews and them, and the gentiles who joined them and the Council of Nicaea the Christian religion was born as a separate and independent teaching. Until then it was a part of Judaism. And we do not claim credit for what started to happen next. Thanks a lot, we don’t need it. Jews have nothing to do with that.

    Yet one more thing, though. There are about 20,000 households now in Israel of the people who follow that same tradition of the Nazarenes. They have their own synagogues. They read the Gospel of Matthew in Hebrew, and believe that Jesus was the Messiah. This is called Messianic Judaism. Look it up. There are 350,000 of them and they don’t consider themselves Christians.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @anon
  290. AaronB says:
    @Adrian

    A colony is a politically dependent piece of the main country. When the British settled America, they were colonists. When America became independent, it was no longer a colony – there was no longer a mother country for it be a colony of.

    Same with Australia, New Zealand, etc. A colony is not politically independent, but a piece of another country that it is subordinate to.

    No one considers Australia, NZ, America, colonies anymore, because they are not colonies of a mother country anymore.

    After the Jews lost Israel in ancient times, it was always part of an empire, except for the crusader period. The British were the latest empire to take over. During that period, Arabs from other parts of the empire poured into Palestine, as well as Jews, who legally bought property or settled in empty waste places.

    When the British left, the Jews wanted political autonomy, but the Arabs tried to conquer them and subject them to their rule, not realizing that the glory days of Muslim conquest were over. The rest is history.

    Israel in its current form will grow and last several hundreds of years. As nothing stays the same, it will eventually change or even be conquered once again by some foreign power. That’s life.

    The Muslim world seems to have no vitality left and to be suffering extreme dysfunction and break down, when it isn’t just stagnant. It is a world in decline.

    So I don’t know what power will conquer Israel again, but I doubt it will be Muslims, whose time appears up. Israel’s time will be up too at some point, at least in its current form, but Jews will always live there in large numbers and will gain and lose autonomy. But in the meantime, the next several hundred years are looking good.

    • Replies: @Adrian
    , @Adrian
  291. @anonymous

    ‘…They…believe that Jesus was the Messiah. This is called Messianic Judaism. Look it up. There are 350,000 of them and they don’t consider themselves Christians…’

    I see. Would that be like thinking Muhammad is the seal of the prophets but not considering yourself Muslim?

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  292. anonymous[224] • Disclaimer says:
    @Colin Wright

    ‘…no gentile nation in Europe has produced their own theosophical thought…’

    That statement is false.

    This English I am speaking is self-taught, so it is awkward sometimes. Excuse me for that. It will get better with practice.

    Aaron though had no problem with understanding me. You couldn’t 🙂

    And go get some Vaseline, sweetheart. I don’t want to be a drag, we are going to have fun. I promise! I’ll be gentle but I think some lubricant will be needed.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  293. @Colin Wright

    For what it’s worth, Wikipedia gives the number as 20,000 — not 350,000.

  294. @anonymous

    ‘This English I am speaking is self-taught, so it is awkward sometimes…

    And go get some Vaseline, sweetheart. I don’t want to be a drag, we are going to have fun. I promise! I’ll be gentle but I think some lubricant will be needed.

    Ah. You’re Israeli.

  295. anonymous[224] • Disclaimer says:
    @Colin Wright

    Judaism itself was obviously some development of the various religious practices of Mesopotamia, ancient Persia, and so on. Should we accuse Jews of being nothing but latter-day Sumerians?

    Judaism for sure borrowed a lot from Mesopotamia, for example the calendar to some extent. Monotheism, as the idea the there is one God was at first implemented in Egypt, to some extent. The Talmud is based on the dialectical logic of Socrates. In the Kabbalah, the idea of re-incarnation was borrowed from Hindus – to some extent. The idea of ritual cleanliness was borrowed from Persians and the idea of separation from the nations was borrowed from Romani people.

    These elements, however, are additions. The core of the Jewish teaching is unique and the poetic language, the metaphors and the allegories with which it is expressed are product of the Jewish culture. As well as all the lore which accompanies it, which most people in the world are fascinated with. And don’t forget that Jews started writing long before the Greeks learned how to.

    No nation among the aforementioned has produced a piece of writing as deep and beautiful at the same time as the Zohar or the Book of Revelation. Hindus alone can be compared to Jews in this regard. The Talmud is perhaps not a beautiful book but unique. There is nothing in the world written like it. The first four books of the Bible are a monumental achievement for an ancient culture and can be compared only to the Vedas. And though Jews don’t have a book such as Mahabharata and didn’t create a musical tradition of their own such as Raga when being compared to what other nations had created, before the common era, Jews must be given credit.

    As well as it should be remembered that Hindus adopted some ideas and teachings from Jews and Greeks too, and Greeks adopted a lot from Hindus. All three adopted science from Mesopotamia and the idea of afterlife from Egypt. But all of that happened a long, long time ago. At that time the ancestors of the Anglo-Saxons were still living on trees and their language consisted of one word: “Yahoo!”

  296. Adrian says:
    @AaronB

    The Boer Republics, founded in the late 19th Century, didn’t have a mother country – and you know what happened to them.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  297. @Adrian

    You are prolific Adrian in one respect. Your insistence on a one track theory using contemporary buzz words like Colonial and national, and you constantly huff and buff about the “brutal” and sadistic Israelis and on and on. I really loved it when you called me a light weight and would recommend my disqualification for discussion because I was so how did you put it uninformed. LOL

    The Israeli/Palestinian conflict is complex and can not be described as a settler colonial dominating the natives like America the Indians etc.

    Hebrew is not a colonial language and the current coinage the Shekel is from biblical times.
    You might at a different snap shot in time accuse Islam of colonialism. That is how complicated it is.

    The Jews started there, they did not arrive like the dutch to South Africa, or the Spanish to the Americas.

    Furthermore we started there and lived there for centuries. Our bible is the foundation of 2 other religions derived from our beginnings there. So please drop the colonialism as chic crap.
    We are not colonizers were are returnees.

    Over 70% of Israelis are Mizrahi Jews. Jews that originated from Arab lands. There were always Jews living continuously in Israel since biblical times. While I realize they were not the dominant population, it is not the following:

    So colonialism and, as the late Tony Judt pointed out many years ago, an anachronistic form of colonialism. Why anachronistic? Because it is no longer possible for a settler colony to marginalize entirely a native population as happened in settler colonies like the US, Canada and Australia.

    When Israel was created it was created as a partition similar to India and Pakistan. One part was to be Muslim the other Jewish. There was never an attempt or desire to dominate or marginalize the muslim population. The Jews just wanted a space for themselves. It is fashionable to label the Israel an Apartheid colonial state as a form of propaganda to delitimizet it.

    But in reality the Muslim do not want the Jews there not because they think of them as colonials, but quite the opposite they worry that the presence of the Jews will delegitimize the power of Islam over their populations. Muslims believe that Islam replaced Judaism as a perfect religion, and you no longer need Judaism. That is why they built a mosque over the temple mount. Islam is a very childish, insecure religion that needs to obliterate other religions to succeed. When the muslims controlled the tomb of the patriarchs in Hebron they would not let the Jews go beyond the steps. That is just the way there are. They will not let the Jews pray on the Temple mount. They consistently piss on other religions when establishing themselves like when they turned over all of the Hindu statues in Afghanistan.

    Your lack of understanding of the complexity of the religious strife and your insistence that Israel is some illegitimate country founded by conquering imperialist colonial settlers is a lie. Thats all it is is a lie. There is no other way to describe the fiction your write other then it is just plain propaganda.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @Adrian
  298. Adrian says:
    @AaronB

    You wrote:

    “The British were the latest empire to take over. During that period, Arabs from other parts of the empire poured into Palestine, as well as Jews, who legally bought property or settled in empty waste places.”

    Are you trying to revive the Peters hoax that the Arab population of late mandatory Palestine was largely a result of Arab immigration?

    See the Wiki on From Time Immemorial:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_Time_Immemorial

    Demographics Palestine:

    Wikipedia(which will not shortchange Israel firsters)

    “Late Ottoman period
    In the late nineteenth century, prior to the rise of Zionism, Jews are thought to have comprised between 2% to 5% of the population of Palestine, although the precise population is not known.[30]

    According to Alexander Scholch, Palestine in 1850 had about 350,000 inhabitants, 30% of whom lived in 13 towns; roughly 85% were Muslims, 11% were Christians and 4% Jews.[31]
    The Ottoman census of 1878 indicated the following demographics for the three districts that best approximated what later became Mandatory Palestine; that is, the Mutasarrifate of Jerusalem, the Nablus Sanjak, and the Acre Sanjak.[30] In addition, some scholars estimate approximately 5,000-10,000 additional foreign-born Jews at this time:[32]

    According to Ottoman statistics
    studied by Justin McCarthy,[33] the population of Palestine in the early 19th century was 350,000, in 1860 it was 411,000 and in 1900 about 600,000 of which 94% were Arabs. In 1914 Palestine had a population of 657,000 Muslim Arabs, 81,000 Christian Arabs, and 59,000 Jews.[34] McCarthy estimates the non-Jewish population of Palestine at 452,789 in 1882, 737,389 in 1914, 725,507 in 1922, 880,746 in 1931 and 1,339,763 in 1946.[35]”

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  299. Alfred says:
    @AaronB

    one of the great things about Israel is that we can be more physical and don’t have to be so smart anymore

    This is hilarious.

    A militia, the Hezbollah, has put Israel back in its box. Heard of any recent bombings of Syria by Israel? I have not.

    Trump is trying to stop Syria rebuilding by depriving them of their oil – some of which ended up in Israel. The sanctions (i.e. economic war) by the USA against Lebanon and Syria continues – in the service of Israel. Egypt is neutralized by the IMF and the World Bank – controlled by the USA.

    They make good technology and produce lots of great army officers

    Is that why they evacuated their border with Lebanon when the Hezbollah leader said that they would pay a price for their campaign of assassinations?

    Israel abandons compound, leaves armor & ammo behind: RT films GHOST BASE at Lebanon’s border

    The reality is that they cannot take casualties. In a real conflict, the Jews in Palestine would run abroad. Russia is trying to prevent the destruction of the place as they don’t want the 1.5 million Russian-speakers to end up in Russia.

    • Agree: Robjil
    • LOL: Fran Taubman
  300. @anonymous

    Nonsense. Jewish thinkers were heavily influenced by German Gentile philosophers and writers-Nietzsche comes to mind. At various times both the Nazis and Jewish intellectuals from Marx to Rand had a hard-on for Nietzsche in particular, don’t ask me why.

    Prior to the German philosophers the Jews were heavily influenced by Plato and Socrates. Psychology is different because Carl Jung and everyone after Freud was a Gentile and Freud was of course Jewish (Though completely atheist).

    This is sort of understandable because Gentiles had a bit of head start on Jews in Europe, in all fairness to the Jews. As a race Ashkenazi did not even exist until the second or third diaspora from Judea when the Jews moved to Rome and intermarried with Roman women. By then the Greek civilizations that produced Socrates and Plato were long gone.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  301. anon[293] • Disclaimer says:
    @anonymous

    the Jewish establishment didn’t murder all the followers of Jesus

    They didn’t have the power to do so, because judicial authority was with the Roman authorities. The killings of Stephen and James the Just were extra-legal (iirc at an opportune moment, when there was a change in Roman governors).

    Until then there were hundreds of thousands of Jews who followed the New Testament – the Nazarenes.

    Such groups may have existed, but the claim that they had the leading role in spreading Christianity seems like nonsense to me. Their continued adherence to Jewish laws (which presumably they would have applied to converts as well) must have severely limited their influence.
    And in any case, it’s just bizarre when religious Jews like you (who is quite obviously full of resentment against historical Christianity and doesn’t accept Christ as saviour) try to claim credit for Christianity…as I wrote above, it’s a sign of a pathological superiority complex, a desire to make the Jewish role in Western civilization look more central than it was. Just drop this idiocy about the alleged spiritual superiority of Jews and Jews being spiritual advisers to gentiles, it’s bound to lead to disaster for your people.

    • Agree: Colin Wright
    • Replies: @anonymous
  302. @Alfred

    Yeah, I hear it’s really crowded in Birobidzhan this time of year.

  303. @Adrian

    ‘The Boer Republics, founded in the late 19th Century, didn’t have a mother country – and you know what happened to them.’

    To be precise, the Boers had once had a mother country — Holland.

    Holland, however, ceased to be a great power.

    • Replies: @Adrian
  304. @Alfred

    ‘A militia, the Hezbollah, has put Israel back in its box. Heard of any recent bombings of Syria by Israel? I have not.’

    I think that owes more to the Iranian drone strike on Saudi Arabia. That’s when the bombing suddenly stopped.

    It is possible to communicate with the Israelis. You just have to know how to talk to them.

  305. @Adrian

    ‘…Are you trying to revive the Peters hoax that the Arab population of late mandatory Palestine was largely a result of Arab immigration?’

    He almost certainly is. His parents probably own the book, and he may even have read it.

  306. @Fran Taubman

    Good ol’ Fran… The post is a veritable embarrassment of riches, but it peaks about here:

    ‘…One part was to be Muslim the other Jewish. There was never an attempt or desire to dominate or marginalize the muslim population…’

    You’ve been taking historiography lessons from Wally, haven’t you?

  307. …when was the last Israeli air raid on Syria? Does anyone have a link?

  308. Adrian says:
    @Colin Wright

    No that wasn’t the reason. By the time the Great Trek started Holland hadn’t been the mother country of the Cape Colony for almost two generations. Britain was.

    And Holland had nothing to do with Transvaal and Orange Free State (except for cultural ties). Britain hadn’t either until it started to wage war on them.

  309. Adrian says:
    @Fran Taubman

    The Jews never had the intention to have a Palestinian state next to them. See Avi Shlaim, Collusion across the Jordan. See also the letter Ben Gurion wrote in 1937 or thereabouts to his son.

    Spare me your myths. I can’t keep reacting.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
    , @Adrian
  310. @Adrian

    Ben Gurin’s letter is distbuted between the english and hebrew.
    But that is not the point.
    The UN partition was law.
    THE ARBS REJECTED THE PARTITION PLAN.

    There was the first war of many wars. Thea Arabs lost (they did not call themselves Palestinians at that time they were part of the Pan Arab collective)

    Are you saying that the Arabs agreed with the partition and that the Jews rejected it?
    Keep you facts straight.

    Yeah Adrain your such a rocket scientist.

    • Replies: @Adrian
  311. Adrian says:
    @Adrian

    I am not saying that. What I am saying is that if they had consented to this the part allocated to them would have been taken by Jordan (that was the collusion Avi Shlaim wrote about).

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  312. @Adrian

    I really do not know what you are saying. But there are facts on the ground that you ignore.
    Maybe this maybe that.
    There was a lot of craziness on the Arabs part in the beginning. They thought that they would win and take it all. You cannot deny that.
    And they lost. They have lost war after war.

    Jordan is the really colonial construct. The Hashmites are not suppose to rule there. All the people in Jordan are the same as the people in Israel. Thy did not call themselves Palestinians. They are all Arabs.

    Jordan was originally a part of the mandate. Why don’t you make Jordan the Palestinian state.
    It is all about the Jews. huh.

  313. ‘… All the people in Jordan are the same as the people in Israel. Thy did not call themselves Palestinians. They are all Arabs…’

    This isn’t true at all.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  314. @Adrian

    It’s hard to miss, Adrian. There it is, on top of his head.

  315. anonymous[224] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jeff Stryker

    Nonsense. Jewish thinkers were heavily influenced by German Gentile philosophers and writers-Nietzsche comes to mind.

    Nonsense is to assume that Nietzsche could have influenced Jewish thinkers. I was talking about the 25 centuries before him, and about spiritual philosophers. You seem to be unable to comprehend the difference between theosophical and secular thought.

    Prior to the German philosophers the Jews were heavily influenced by Plato and Socrates.

    You are right in this respect to some extent. Plato was indeed a spiritual philosopher. His ideas about knowledge and soul, time and space et cetera, are indeed religious ideas. He was a great thinker. The greatest thinker Europe has had. However, did he manage to formulate a cohesive teaching and put it in a form accesible for the common folk? Did he manage to create a following, substantial enough to establish a religion? No, because that is not simple.

    He did of course influence most of the religious thinkers of his time though. Among them the gnostics, and Kabbalah is a gnostic teaching of Jews but that doesn’t mean that it is built on the ideas of Plato alone. I admit that his influence was significant but what I have said earlier is that there has been no nation among the gentiles of Europe which succeeded to create a religion of their own, based on the theosophical ideas of their own. Plato could have become a great religious figure, a prophet – but he didn’t. His followers could have been more devoted but weren’t. This is what I was talking about.

    Had Plato been a Hindu or a Jew he would have been elevated to the status of a great teacher but in Greece he was treated as one more thinker, as nothing too special. Just another philosopher. No wonder that Jews were in the end those who managed to make use of his ideas, integrating them into their creed and gentiles had to adopt the creed from the Jews. Thus, in order to influence masses of people much more effort has to be made, and that requires enthusiasm and dedication, and commitment to the purpose that Jews had and gentiles hadn’t, and this is what I and Aaron are talking about. No one has said that there are no talented gentiles or that Jews were not influenced and invented all of this religious stuff on their own in total independence and separation. That would be stupid to assume it is possible. That is not what we mean.

    As well I admit that Aristotle also influenced Jews. Socrates influenced Jews. You are correct about that. The Talmud is based on the technique of dialectics which Socrates created. He also influenced Hindus. And Pythagoras influenced Jews as well; but he himself was influenced, he travelled a lot and brought a lot of his ideas from abroad. Then in turn he influenced his successors – Plato, Socrates and Aristotle. This is how it works.

    So no one here is stating that gentiles had no influence on Jews. Our point is that as we admit this so should gentiles admit that Jews influenced them too, and give Jews credit where it is due. You are doing the opposite of that.

    Carl Jung and everyone after Freud was a Gentile…

    No this is not so. And even if it was so, it was Freud who taught Jung and it was Freud who managed to change our understanding of the human mind, and to show and reveal the inner workings of it. More so, that kind of introspection and contemplation of thoughts, turned inwards, that he developed hadn’t been seen before him and his method was a unique invention of his own. His “Interpretation of Dreams” was a groundbreaking work. And he was also influenced! His teacher was Josef Breuer, also a Jew and it was him who first began to use what later Freud called free association and talking cure. This of course relates to the Jewish practice of heshbon ha-nefesh, an accounting of the soul. Credit where credit’s due.

  316. anonymous[224] • Disclaimer says:
    @anon

    They didn’t have the power to do so, because judicial authority was with the Roman authorities.

    You don’t know the history, friend. Look up First Jewish–Roman War. For sure if it was possible for them to expell the Romans from Jerusalem and other cities, it was also in their power to massacre or execute all the Nazoreans.

    Such groups may have existed, but the claim that they had the leading role in spreading Christianity seems like nonsense to me. Their continued adherence to Jewish laws, which they would have applied to converts as well, must have limited their influence.

    “Seems like nonsense” doesn’t mean it is. You are ignorant, and this is the reason for that. Look, there is something interesting I can recommend. There is a course on the Early Christianity on CD, in audio. Look it up – The Teaching Company, Early Christianity: The Experience of the Divine. This is a course of 24 lectures, read by a professor of some sort and I think it is well worth $50. In the meantime, read at least the articles on Nazarenes and Early Christianity in Wikipedia.

    [it’s] bizarre when religious Jews like you, who is full of resentment against historical Christianity and doesn’t accept Christ as saviour, try to claim credit for [it]

    I am not a religious Jew. I’m a secular person who is interested in religion as a phenomenon and I hold no particular preference for one religion, though I do like some of them more and some less and some I don’tlike at all. Of course the idea that Jesus was an actual son of God, and that his suffering on the cross can “save” me if I accept this idea is inacceptable to me. Same as the Jewish idea of a scapegoat on which this Christian idea is based. I can’t understand how suffering of another being can cancel out the consequences of my own actions and thoughts. In respect to this I am much more in accordance with Hindus and the Buddhist thought: Karma is inevitable.

    More so, since I know some Hebrew I can see how the so-called Church Fathers twisted the meaning of the prophet’s words to make it fit their needs, how this whole “Son of God” concept was fabricated. You don’t know this but I can demonstrate it. As it is based on the words of the prophet Isaiah, in the Book of Isaiah 7:14 it is said, “Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.”

    But in the original Hebrew text it is not said “a virgin” but “a maiden” and this was mistranslated in order to support the idea of a supernatural birth, the idea that Jesus was not a man but a god sent to redeem people through his suffering. You can check it. The Hebrew word for virgin is בתולה and in the text the word עלמה is used which is the word for maiden, an unmarried woman.

    Then there is one more thing. To support this idea that Jesus was indeed a son of God, and kind of a god himself his words were misinterpreted. It was taught that when he said here and there in the New Testament that his father was in Heaven, he said that because he was an actual son of God in the flesh. The Church Fathers consealed it from the people, that this was a common expression among Jews at the time. For example it is used often in the Talmud, as in Berakoth 30b: “A blind man should direct his heart towards his Father in Heaven.”

    And there is an expression used in recitations of all kinds which Jesus also was using in his sermons, “Our Father who art in heaven” as recorded in Matthew 6:9 but it is also found in a lot of other Jewish books which precede the New Testament. So the premises were fabricated in order to lead people to a false conclusion, and to persuade them to accept Jesus as God in the flesh.

    To manufacture that imaginable supernatural figure the text of the Scriptures was modified and misinterpreted. And what happened next as a consequence of that was a transgression of the Ten Commandments, the foundation of the creed. One of them is “Thou shalt have no other gods before me” and now there was a new god; and another is “Thou shalt not make unto thee a graven image,” and now there is an idol of a man being tortured, which people worship.

    This of course lead to a schism between Jews and Christians and I suspect it was in fact what the Church Fathers wanted. A lot of people have been deceived and are being deceived right now, despite that it is not so hard to figure out what is going on. But most people prefer to remain ignorant. And I am quite sure that if Jesus returned he would tell Christians what he told Pharisees. You are of the devil for he is the father of Lie. Did he suffer on the cross for the Pope and his pedophile priesthood?

    Come on. There is a lot more I can critisize but this is enough for now. For us Jews these things are obvious which I hope explains the reason for our resentment. And this is not all of it. For this religion is a complete mistreatment of the knowledge which Jews hold in such a high regard. The third Commandment is “Remember the sabbath.” Doesn’t seem to be something important, but there is a secret in it and it was put there for a reason. You Christians threw it out without knowing that. And all those witch hunts, and the burnings of heretics and those insane books that Christian monks wrote?

    No we do not claim credit for these creative efforts; this is not ours. And I think that Jesus wouldn’t want to be associated with the Church too. After all, he said:

    “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravening wolves. By their fruits ye shall know them. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Therefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy by thy name? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me.”

    • Replies: @anon
  317. @Anon 2

    Try to find out how many Jews are amongst NYC firefighters …. I know the answer because one died in 9/11…

  318. @Colin Wright

    Except for the colonial Hashmites. It sure the fuck is ttrue. There is no distinct Palestinian culture or language etc.
    the were Arabs. Same people in Syria, Iraq Jordan etc.

  319. Eric135 says:

    I find it interesting that — as a counter-argument to my claim that European gentiles are no less “spiritual” than Jews — my Jewish interlocutor says that Europeans did not come up with an original “theosophical” system.

    Theosophy’s leading light, Helena Blavatsky, considered (non-Jewish) Aryans to be the master race. How amusing that a Jew would be critical of non-Jewish Europeans for “not being Nazi enough” — LOL

    In the meantime, my Jewish opponent conveniently overlooks Greek, Roman, Nordic and Celtic religions, which he would probably dismiss as paganism. But anyone who has studied orthodox Judaism will know that it is pagan: it has multiple gods. It is also satanic. Just read Michael Hoffman’s “Judaism Discovered” or Texe Marrs’s “Conspiracy of the Six-Pointed Star”.

    Yet again, Jews — most of whom are materialists and atheists — are telling us that only THEIR notion of religion and spirituality counts. There is nothing “spiritual” in Chopin, Van Gogh or Mozart — because they are not Jewish!

    These Jews take credit for Christianity while condemning it. This is typical Jewish doubletalk and nonsense.

    These “oh-so-smart” Jews aren’t smart at all. They’re just specialists in humbug. No wonder they dominate the legal profession, journalism, and academia. Those professions are just Jewish huckstering with a pretense of respectability.

    • Agree: utu
    • Replies: @anonymous
  320. anon[223] • Disclaimer says:
    @anonymous

    I’m a secular person

    Then why do you come up with this “Jews are necessary as spiritual advisers to gentiles” nonsense? Is it out of pure unthinking ethnocentrism? Don’t you see that attitudes like this are bound to lead to resentment against your people? How about adopting a stance more along the lines of “live and let live”?
    I know about the argument that Christians misunderstood parts of the Old Testament and misapplied prophecies in it…I’m not much of a religious person myself, I have no problem accepting that the virgin birth is a fairly questionable idea. I do think though that your idea that the Church fathers deliberately “fabricated” it and other elements of the Christian faith is misleading, as are your claims about the importance of the Nazarenes…Christianity was successful because it dropped all the Jewish dietary laws, circumcision etc. which had previously repelled converts (a development described already in Acts of the Apostles), the Nazarenes didn’t have that advantage.
    Anyway, I’m out of this discussion.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  321. anonymous[224] • Disclaimer says:
    @Eric135

    Eric, I don’t know it looks like trolling to me. You need to read what I am writing, if we are having a discussion. Read the last comments I have posted. I have given as much credit to gentiles as possible; it is strange that after that I have to read such a bullshit.

    And I said before, that I disagree with Aaron that gentiles are less spiritual because it is not so. I said, that I consider art no less spiritual than religion; in fact I think that high art, deep art is a more spiritual phenomenon than religion and I admitted, that Jews learned all about art from gentiles.

    You keep going on with these childish LOL arguments? This is stupid.

    Helena Blavatsky was a 19 century pop esoteric bitch, she didn’t have one single idea of her own. I read her books. And the Aryans she was talking about were the real Aryans. That is, Hindus. Europeans have nothing to do with Aryans. That was the idea of Hitler, which was a fake from start to finish. European languages are far from the language of Aryans, the Sanskrit. More so, I was talking about the whole known history, not the last 100 years. You are as I can see not too familiar with it. So chill out a little, son. Listen to a grown man.

    Yes, I dismiss Greek, Roman, Nordic and Celtic religions, because those were primitive cults of, in the best case spirits of the planets, that is for the Romans. Nordic “religion” was nothing. Ye, it is called paganism. How can you even compare that to Judaism? You must be completely ignorant or mislead to even be able to think like this. Of course, if you “studied Judaism” reading Michael Hoffman and Texe Marrs then I understand that.

    No, Judaism has one God and not “multiple gods.” No it is not satanic, this is a complete bullshit.

    • Replies: @Eric135
    , @Eric135
  322. anonymous[224] • Disclaimer says:
    @anon

    I said I was a secular person but that I am interested in religion. I know a lot about religion. All of them. And I never said that Jews must be spiritual advisers to gentiles. Read again. You are missing the point. I was talking about something else.

    And concerning the Nazarenes, I asked to read at least an article or something. You of course didn’t do it.

    Alright, end of discussion.

  323. @Fran Taubman

    ‘Except for the colonial Hashmites. It sure the fuck is ttrue. There is no distinct Palestinian culture or language etc.
    the were Arabs. Same people in Syria, Iraq Jordan etc.’

    Sure, Fran. No distinctions whatsoever. Who could tell a Syrian from an Egyptian? Saudis look just like Lebanese.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  324. @Fran Taubman

    ‘It sure the fuck is ttrue. There is no distinct Palestinian culture or language etc.
    the were Arabs. Same people in Syria, Iraq Jordan etc.’

    There is an irony here. You would deny their land and statehood to what is definitely a distinct and cohesive people — the Palestinians — and give statehood and that same land to an aggregation of peoples with virtually nothing in common beyond a religion which many don’t even practice — German Jews, Yemeni Jews, Persian Jews, Galician Jews, Moroccan Jews.

    It’s a vicious absurdity. It’s as I collected people of Christian backgrounds from all over the planet– Filipinos, Swedes, Peruvians, Greeks — and threw the Khmer out of Cambodia on the grounds that we should have it. Then I’d claim the Khmer were ‘just like’ Koreans — as if that justified the crime.

    This crap is evil. It’s absurd as well, but that’s okay. Thinking crystals have spiritual powers is absurd — but if you want to think that, knock yourself out. It’ll probably prove harmless enough.

    No so Zionism. That is an absurdity that brings misery to millions for the sake of absolutely nothing.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  325. @Colin Wright

    I am speaking for them, they never called themselves Palestinians until after the 1967 war. They thought of themselves as the Arab collective.
    The Jews have their own language culture and traditions different to others.
    That is the whole point.
    You always miss the point.

  326. @Colin Wright

    Egyptians are not Arabs (sort of). That is a distinctive difference as are the Persians.
    That is why western demarkations of countries is silly. They have their own distinct tribes.
    The monarchs from KSA come from Iraq.
    All of the Arabs are the same. There was never a distinct tribe of Palestinians.
    I am sorry that the truth always hurts. But on this point I am sure.
    They say that about 90% of Jordan are Palestinians not Hashmites.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  327. @Fran Taubman

    ‘They say that about 90% of Jordan are Palestinians not Hashmites.’

    Lol. Sure. That’s where many of the Palestinians the Jews drove out fled to — s0, indeed, Jordan is now mostly Palestinian. Note, incidentally, that there has been a great deal of conflict within Jordan as a consequence. See Black September.

    Look, Fran. You can’t win — and it’s not because you’re stupid, or because you’re ignorant.

    It’s because you’re attempting to defend the indefensible. It can’t be done — it doesn’t matter what your intellectual gifts are.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  328. @Colin Wright

    Look, Fran. You can’t win — and it’s not because you’re stupid, or because you’re ignorant.

    Gosh only you could say something like that. There is no wining or loosing there is only understanding of the two sides. Both sides have truths and gray areas.
    You are not going to eliminate Israel. The Jews cannot get all of the Arabs out.

    You need to understand that there is nothing indefensible about Israel. It was a serious of events that occurred in tome that lead to where we are now. One thing after another. Israel did not make all the decisions. Arab leaders have to take responsibility for the dysfunction.

    I am not here to defend Israel, as I said early I am here to defend the dehumanization of Jews. The claim that they have an inherent and special evil. That they are satanic and create chaos in the world, and how that relates to Israel.

    Solutions need to be found that are out of the box. Like I mentioned early a federation of Israel, Jordan and Egypt.

    You contribute nothing positive to this argument to say that Zionist are evil is just lame.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  329. @Fran Taubman

    ‘…You need to understand that there is nothing indefensible about Israel. It was a serious of events that occurred in tome that lead to where we are now. One thing after another. Israel did not make all the decisions. Arab leaders have to take responsibility for the dysfunction.

    I am not here to defend Israel…’

    You do realize that last sentence doesn’t exactly fit in?

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  330. @Colin Wright

    Give a listen my heroine. She speaks the truth.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @Truth3
  331. @Fran Taubman

    ‘Give a listen my heroine. She speaks the truth. ‘

    Thanks, but I just ate.

  332. Eric135 says:
    @anonymous

    Helena Blavatsky was a 19th century pop esoteric bitch, she didn’t have one single idea of her own. I read her books. And the Aryans she ws talking about were the real Aryans. That is, Hindus. Europeans have nothing to do with Aryans. That was the idea of Hitler, which was a fake from start to finish. European languages are far from the language of Aryans, the Sanskrit.

    Sorry, wrong. Sanskrit is considered an Indo-European language, springing from the same roots as German, English, etc. Aryans ruled India for quite a while. But India mongrelized with non-white people, so there are few traces of the Aryan left there.

    The Aryan “family” originally incorporated Europe, Russia and India and even extended into northern Africa and the Middle East.

    The ancient Greeks were obviously Aryan if you look at their sculptures. The same is true of the ancient Romans.

    Aryan never just meant “northern European”. I’m sure that Hitler was well aware that the swastika symbol was common in ancient India.

    There is nothing mysterious here. Just read H.G. Wells’ “Outline of History”, vols. 1 and 2, if you want more detail.

    So chill out a little, son. Listen to a grown man.

    Thanks for the advice, pops.

    Now here’s some advice for you: Try knowing what you’re talking about and don’t expect us to take you seriously whens you trot out “Theosophy” as a spiritual or religious system worth talking about.

  333. Eric135 says:
    @anonymous

    Yes, I dismiss Greek, Roman, Nordic and Celtic religions, because those were primitive cults of, in the best case spirits of the planets, that is for the Romans. Nordic “religion” was nothing. Ye, it is called paganism. How can you even compare that to Judaism?

    I can’t. Judaism is satanism and full of magic and witchcraft (e.g., the Kabbalah). As I said, it has multiple gods and it is completely amoral. In the end, the Jews worship themselves as divine beings, considering the rest of us to be “supernal refuse”. Anyone can easily find this out. The Jews themselves admit it: Schneerson, Zalman, and the rest. All you have to do is read Jewish publications. They convict themselves out of their own mouths.

    The Greek and Nordic religions, on the other hand, are centered on ideals of nobility and justice. But you, of course, dismiss that. The Greeks also came up with the idea of Logos. Christianity identified Logos — reason, truth, love of nature — with God. High civilization became possible with the idea of reason ruling the passions. The New Testament liberated the Jews from their own ethnocentrism and supremacism– the ones who would follow Jesus, that is. The rest are stuck in their own delusions. Sad.

    • Replies: @anonymous
    , @Fran Taubman
  334. anonymous[224] • Disclaimer says:
    @Eric135

    Eric, Eric… You are so ignorant, I think this talk isn’t going to make any sense.

    Sanskrit is traceable to the 2nd millennium BCE in the written form. The Germanic languages, even if we count the Proto-Germanic, are much younger and the earliest runic inscriptions date from around 150 CE.

    The Germanic languages are spoken by a population of about 500 million people, whereas Indo-European languages have more than 3 billion native speakers. If this is how we determine whether a nation is of the Aryan origin then we must say that Armenians and Persians are Aryans since they are much more ancient peoples, and in fact Germanic languages do not belong to the Indo-Aryan familt at all – these are of a different brunch. Europeans would have to stand in a long line behind Russians, Bulgarians and all other Slavic peoples whose languages are at least indeed related to Sanskrit.

    You guys often say that modern Jews are not related to Hebrews because they are not Semites. Perhaps so, but Jews of all diasporas could speak and write the language of Hebrews and followed their traditions and religion. How can you claim at the same time that Greeks and Romans were Aryans if they didn’t know a word in Sanskrit is beyond understanding.

    Perhaps you are just not too smart, Eric? How can you not see the difference between theosophical thinking as a part of an ancient religious tradition and the Theosophy of Helena Blavatsky which is just 150 years old?

    You are absolutely ignorant and apparently you belong to the sort of people who prefer to remain ignorant, so please I don’t have time for you anymore; I have plenty of other, more interesting things to do.

    • Replies: @Eric135
  335. Adrian says:
    @Fran Taubman

    You wrote:

    “The UN partition was law.”

    Oh no – it wasn’t.

    Fran I spent some time on the Assange threads but now I am back here to once again do battle with the myths you imbibed in your Jewish primary school.

    You cannot be blamed for believing that Israel was created by a decision of the UN. This myth was and is widely believed beyond Jewish primary schools. But Fran the UN did no such thing.

    Israel came into being by a unilateral declaration of independence (you know the same thing the white Rhodesians once came up with) dated 14th May 1948. It did not define its borders.

    It is true that there had been a UN General Assembly Resolution the year before which RECOMMENDED the partition of the country along certain lines. But for a recommendation to work it needs acceptance by the main parties involved. The Palestinians did not accept it was it only because they outnumbered the Jews then 2 to 1 and were allocated only 45 % of the land to the Jews 55 %. Quite unfair don’t you think?

    So it was a Recommendation. I should add that resolutions of the General Assembly have no force of law. Only the Security Council Resolutions have.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  336. @Eric135

    All that talk talk talk. OMG Romans and Greeks
    And Christianity and Logos. Big talk
    And all you are is a two bit, tin horn racist and bigot of the super cheap kind. That is your bottom line?
    The Jews are satanic and we believe in black magic!!!
    Anyone could say something g stupid like that. Cut the Greek and Sanskrit out.

    • Replies: @Eric135
  337. Eric135 says:
    @anonymous

    Eric, Eric… You are so ignorant, I think this talk isn’t going to make any sense.

    You’re right about what you say not making any sense.

    As for being ignorant, you clearly win the prize. Or maybe we should believe you instead of linguists who include Sanskrit in the Indo-European (Aryan) language group. Just because German is a younger language doesn’t mean that it can’t be a part of that language group.

    And yes, I guess it will shock you to find out that Afghans, for example, fall into the Aryan group, and I believe ancient Persians did as well. White people were not confined to Europe in ancient times, and even today you will find fair skinned and fair haired people in the middle east.

    As for the Jews speaking Hebrew, that doesn’t make them Hebrew anymore than my speaking German makes me a German.

    How you can claim at the same time that Greeks and Romans were Aryans if they didn’t know a word of Sanskrit is beyond understanding.

    It’s only beyond understanding to someone like you who doesn’t understand the concept of language groups. There are many Indo-European/Aryan languages. That doesn’t mean that all Aryans would speak every one of those languages, much less Sanskrit. I think you’re playing dumb here. I hope so for your sake.

    The many Aryan languages were developed by the Aryan people — Aryans are white people who aren’t Jewish, for your information — and you can check out the list of those Indo-European/Aryan languages by using google. You can also read Wells’ outline of history, where he describes the wanderings of the different Aryan peoples.

    Eric, Eric… You are so ignorant…

    Perhaps you are just not too smart, Eric?

    You are absolutely ignorant and apparently you belong to the sort of people who prefer to remain ignorant

    Your name-calling weakens your argument. You are projecting your own ignorance and lack of intelligence onto me. Sorry, it won’t work.

    You say you don’t have time for me anymore….Mmm, promise?

    • Replies: @anonymous
  338. @Adrian

    No you always forget Trans Jordan. Part of the original Mandate was suppose to include Trans Jordan.
    Why the Hashmites last minute after they lost Saudi Arabia to the house of Saud was awarded to them
    Was that fair.?
    Any way they rejected the plan they lost the war.
    You should look at some old maps. The Arabs would not have agreed to one square inch going to the Jews.
    You know that. Peace is not their goal. Victimization and jihad.

    • Replies: @Adrian
  339. anonymous[224] • Disclaimer says:
    @Eric135

    I am not name-calling, I am stating a fact. You are ignorant – this is a fact. On top of that you are far less intelligent than I thought.

    “There are about 445 Indo-European languages, 46% of the world’s population speaks an Indo-European language as a first language.” Following that logic, 46% of the world’s population are Aryans?

    Aryan languages Eric are a separate branch of the Indo-European family. European languages do not belong to this branch.

    “The Indo-Iranian languages, or Aryan languages constitute the largest and southeasternmost extant branch of the Indo-European language family… The common ancestor of the languages in this family is called Common Aryan – which was spoken in approximately the late 3rd millennium BC. The three branches of the modern Indo-Iranian languages are Indo-Aryan, Iranian, and Nuristani.”

    You are unable to understand even this, so yes like I said I have no time for you.

    • Replies: @Eric135
  340. Eric135 says:
    @anonymous

    “There are about 445 Indo-European languages, 46% of the world’s population speaks an Indo European language as a first language.”

    What is the source of that quote?

    Aryan languages Eric are a separate branch of the Indo-European family. European languages do not belong to this branch.

    Wrong. All Indo-European languages were created by Aryans.

    And again, you quote someone without giving the source.

    As for speaking an Aryan language without being an Aryan, it’s obvious how that could happen.

    As I said, Aryans ruled India, allowed that nation to mongrelize (the way we are allowing it here in the U.S.), and so non-Aryans came to speak an Aryan language, just as Asians, blacks and Mestizos have come to speak English.

    This ain’t rocket science, pops.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  341. Eric135 says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Oh, Fran….you remind me of Jan on “The Brady Bunch.”

    LOL

  342. @Gilad Atzmon

    no one has a problem with Jews being gifted or being part of the elite,, but ppl do have problems with Madoffs, Binary options, Weinstein, Epstein, Aipac, ADL interfering with elementary freedoms… do you really need me to explain all of that?

    Lots of people have a problem with Jewish power, for the things you cite and much more! Jews tend to be very hostile and destructive towards the majorities in their host nations. Can you tell me how old stock Americans have benefited from having a Jewish elite?

  343. anonymous[224] • Disclaimer says:
    @Eric135

    You can’t even find the source of a quotation? Alright.

    You can start here: “The Emergence of the Indo-Iranians: The Indo-Iranian Languages” at the Unesco site; or the “Indo-European Languages” article with a family tree in Ancient History Encyclopedia; or the “Indo-Iranian languages” and “Indo-European languages” articles in Wikipedia, with references to both European and Asian researches.

    This is not some kind of esoteric knowledge, Eric. Linguistics is an accurate science. All the European languages stem from Indo-European – and Aryan language stemmed from it as well. However, except for Russian and other Slavic languages no other European language belongs to the Aryan branch, but Latvian and Lithuanian.

    And that too doesn’t mean that there is a relation between those and Aryan language in the sense that it was the source of them. Just some languages are closer and some further to each other, and this reflects how close or far to each other are the peoples which speak them. The Indo-European language is much older than Aryan.

    Also, despite the fact that most of the Aryans intermarried with the local peoples of India, those who belong to the cast of Brahmins remain pure and unmixed. Unlike Jews the Brahmins do not mix with gentiles and even with their own kind of other varnas. Their laws forbid them to touch women who do not belong to the varna of Brahmins and it is not possible to become a Brahmin. You must be born a Brahmin.

    So go ahead and google “Brahmins” to see what they look like, the pure and original Aryans: brown eyes, dark hair.

  344. Adrian says:
    @Fran Taubman

    You tell me that I have forgotten about Jordan. How could I? People who think like you take every opportunity tol drag it into the discussion

    However, if anything is clear in the history of this sorry saga it is that the real Jordanians don’t regard the Palestinians as their compatriots. And vice versa. It is only the Israelis who keep harping on their supposed similarities in the hope that they can push even more Palestinians over the border.

    It is a bit like the Protestants of Northern Ireland telling the catholics there that they might just as well live down South -what is the matter, you are all catholics and Irish, aren’t you?

    You were quite wrong in suggesting in one of your recent letters that the Palestinians only started to use that term for themselves after 1967.In fact you didn’t have to go further than Wikipedia (under “Palestinian”) to find that the terms Palestinians for the Arab population of Palestine has been in use for at least a hundred years – and the term Palestine goes back much further than that.

    There is a well known exchange of letters between the Arab committee of Palestine and Winston Churchill who was colonial secretary in 1921-1922 in which the terms “Palestine” and people of Palestine – here mainly used in relation to the Arabs – are freely employed on both sides. The Palestinians are asking for self government for Palestine and wonder why they can’t have it in accordance with the wartime promises,, like Syria and Iraq have. Churchill answers that he doesn’t regard them as less advanced than the people of those countries but self government now would make it difficult for His Majesty’s government to fulfill the pledge of the Balfour Declaration. The Palestinians had proposed equal rights for Moslems, Christians and Jews so they could only interpret Churchill’s letter as an indication that Britain wanted the Jewish population of Palestine to increase until they were able to push through Zionist demands. No wonder that Churchill is still in high regard among the Jews.

    And by the way if you have ever found any sign that Churchill also bothered about another part of the Balfour declaration let me know. The part concerned is this: “it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine”.

    You are also quite wrong to suggest that the Palestinians have never wanted to give up an inch to the Jews. Way back, in 1988, the PLO accepted a two state solution on the basis of the pre-1967 War situation. That was basically what was required in the Security Council Resolution 242 – and that meant an enormous concession because now the Jews got 72% of the land instead of the 55 % originally proposed by the UN (I have never understood why that has been accepted internationally in spite of the principle of international law that territory gained by war cannot be retained, a principle that is mentioned in the very preamble of Security Country Resolution 242)

    And you probably have not wanted to know that Hamas issued two years ago a new charter which says in Article 20 : “However, without compromising its rejection of the Zionist entity and without relinquishing any Palestinian rights, Hamas considers the establishment of a fully sovereign and independent Palestinian state, with Jerusalem as its capital along the lines of the 4th of June 1967, with the return of the refugees and the displaced to their homes from which they were expelled, to be a formula of national consensus.”

    I know that the return of the refugees is the hard bit but it is an ambit claim, a claim that can be talked about. But the Israelis don’t feel like talking, claiming all the while “that there is nobody to talk to” on the other side.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  345. @Adrian

    You were quite wrong in suggesting in one of your recent letters that the Palestinians only started to use that term for themselves after 1967.In fact you didn’t have to go further than Wikipedia (under “Palestinian”) to find that the terms Palestinians for the Arab population of Palestine has been in use for at least a hundred years – and the term Palestine goes back much further than that.

    Let me refer you to my comment #333 the video of Gold Mier. Palestinian referred to its citizens, Jewish, Christians, Muslims. Not to their ethnic origins. Mier had a Palestinian passport.
    You are wronger then wrong on this. The Muslims referred to themselves as Arabs. There was a big Pan Arabic centrality at that time.

    got 72% of the land instead of the 55 % originally proposed by the UN (I have never understood why that has been accepted internationally in spite of the principle of international law that territory gained by war cannot be retained, a principle that is mentioned in the very preamble of Security Country Resolution 242)

    You need to google that. The land is considered disputed, by many laws as their is no sovereign country to return the land to. Who would you return the land to? There was never a Palestine prior to 1967. Would you return it to Jordan, who stole it in the 1948 war of independence? Also no land can be returned until final peace is obtained. Something the Arabs are never going to do. For them peace means: Piece by piece. It is a trojan horse to them. They will take what they get to fight another day.
    We have been over and over this. But Trans Jordan was to be the Palestinian part which would have amounted to 70% arab. 30% Jewish. That is just a fact. Look at the Palestinian Mandate Map.
    Let me ask you this, before 1967 why didn’t the Arabs declare a Palestinian state? They could have then. Because they did not consider themselves separate Palestinians Arabs. Look it up Arafat invented it and admitted it.

    And you probably have not wanted to know that Hamas issued two years ago a new charter which says in Article 20 : “However, without compromising its rejection of the Zionist entity and without relinquishing any Palestinian rights, Hamas considers the establishment of a fully sovereign and independent Palestinian state, with Jerusalem as its capital along the lines of the 4th of June 1967, with the return of the refugees and the displaced to their homes from which they were expelled, to be a formula of national consensus.”

    That is so sweet of them, they took the genocide off the table? And you believe them? Did they tell you it was a Hunta, a brief reprieve. Will they form a unity government with Fatah? They have not had elections over there since 2005. Will they hold elections? I am fully for reparations for land loss, as are most Israelis. I would give each Arab 2 million to relocate. The Israelis were sorry the day they gave up Gaza. It is over. Never again.

    And the world, the functioning part of the world knows it. To play with these people is to join in another failed state after failed state creating more refugees. If Israel ever laid down their arms, there would be no more Jews period, a blood bath. When Jordan took over the West bank in 1948. there was a barb wire fence prohibiting the Jews from going to the Western Wall. All the synagogues were destroyed. It was completely Juden free. These people are nuts. They cannot even agree to rule themselves. What are you thinking?

    Israel is not going to be another failed state with boat loads of refugees. It is a highly functioning country with technology, trade research and development. If the Arabs want to join in fine, it will not be in their own state. Maybe a federation between Jordan, Egypt and Israel, with green card status for those not voting, with tremendous economic developments by the rest of Arabia.

    The arabs need to wake up and join the world and get off the Jihadi train. They are not getting Israel to become Muslim ruled. It has to start with the reconciliation of their leaders who have done nothing but line their own pockets with this cottage industry of a two state solution. The EU has to stop funding this charade.
    The standard of living is quite high in the west bank. Shocking the development over there.

    I know that the return of the refugees is the hard bit but it is an ambit claim, a claim that can be talked about. But the Israelis don’t feel like talking, claiming all the while “that there is nobody to talk to” on the other side.

    Oh please. We are in the real world here Adrain. What fantasy cartoon are you watching. The Jews are not giving up one square inch. The Palestinians have lost their Jihad. They are losers. No return of refugees. You may think you have support but where the rubber meets the road. Like China, the EU, Russia, even Arabia. They are not coming to save the Palestinians. They lost their world tour which was always a real dog and pony show.

  346. @Colin Wright

    There are other groups, even ones with beliefs profoundly antithetical to the host culture. Mormons, Amish, Mennonites…

    Do you mean like the fact that Mormons were the religious group most gung-ho about the Iraq War but how it’s still somehow being blamed on an entirely different group or do you have something else in mind?
    https://news.gallup.com/poll/26677/among-religious-groups-jewish-americans-most-strongly-oppose-war.aspx

  347. Ace says:
    @AaronB

    ** normal group competition among a host population **

    I can’t source this stat but I read somewhere (IRS) that Jews in Weimar or National Socialist Germany represented 0.5% of the population but owned one-third of the real estate.

    Too, aren’t all American media giants owned by Jews? Two percent of the population.

    That doesn’t strike me as the likely product of “normal group competition.”

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  348. Ace says:
    @AaronB

    Intellectually supple and dextrous sounds like a nice way of saying cunning and deceitful. Contractual relations with diaspora Jews must be a real treat.

  349. @Ace

    Jeff Bezos owns everything, including the Washington Post.
    You know the Amazon guy.
    He is not Jewish. There is a thread of truth to that, maybe. But the Arabs own all the oil or used to. Opec used to control the moods of the world.
    Most of what you say is bullshit. The Jews are not running the world.

  350. Truth3 says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Give a listen my heroine. She speaks…

    … Racist Fantasies.

    “There is no Palestinian people.”

    And spare me the bullshit NYT article where she tries to put lipstick on that pig of a statement.

  351. Truth3 says:

    Jew Bitch of the Day… Fran Taubman (aka Linda Rice, Anon, others)

    Justifying Israeli theft and murder is her mission, as just another Hasbarite mouthpiece of the ugliest nastiest most evil force on the planet… Organized Jewry.

    Denying Jewish control of the US is her other mission. Which, if it weren’t so absurd (denying such) would be utter comedy.

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