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Did 29% of Mexicans Really Vote for Donald Trump?
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Dear Mexican: I was wondering if you could shed some light on the debate on whether 29 percent of Mexicans/Hispanic voters really voted for Trump, or whether it was much less like other polls show?

The Poll y Voces

Dear Pocho: Exit polls are like the PRI: full of shit, full of money, and incredibly pendejo yet dangerous. But I’ve been mucho amused by Latino organizations, political scientists, and all Trump haters attacking exit polls that showed nearly a third of Latinos going for Cheeto Dick. Instead, they’ve pushed their numbers, which unsurprisingly show raza voting for Hillary Clinton in overwhelming numbers against Donald Trump. It really doesn’t matter: the point is that not enough of us went out to vote against Trump, and more than a few Mexicans voted for him for reasons I’ve stated in this columna: we like strongmen, the more macho the better. Even more importantly, a lot of Mexicans didn’t vote for Hillary for reasons ranging from her being a mujer to her pathetic Hispandering to her being a Clinton to her uninspiring platform to her being the worst lesser-of-two-evils since the days music fans had to pick between Thalia and Paulina Rubio. Latino yacktivists need to acknowledge we’re not all knee-jerk libs, and that’s okay. Oh, and #fucktrump

 

I wrestled in high school (badly), and have always had a love-hate relationship with professional wrestling. On the one hand, I love the sport, but I hate what they have done to it with all the scripted outcomes and over-the-top clown-show antics. That said, the wrestlers do some amazing performances, and make real sacrifices of their bodies (not to mention their personal lives, like any type of performing entertainer). Luchadores, however, are sheer brilliance. While they have their share of hamming it up, their performances are like a testosterone-fueled ballet. Even if you don’t find the whole mascara culture fun (hey, who doesn’t want to be a superhero?), it’s impossible to ignore the amazing, high-flying gymnastics these guys put on. While I am happy that Rey Mysterio found popularity in the U.S., I am concerned that the WWE may screw up a good thing with the popularity of the rudos. Can you help?

Viva Lucha Libre!

Dear Gabacho: I gotta admit, I haven’t religiously followed pro wrestling since the time Stone Cold Steve Austin made Kurt Angle wear a tiny tejana. So I asked my cousin, who said that WWE Smackdown Live had a recent story line in its women’s division that a masked wrestler going by La Luchadora sneaks into matches to raise desmadre. That’s not surprising, given lucha libre masks are now a given at nearly every sporting event in the United States thanks to Nacho Libre and Rey Mysterio, who’s past my time but is apparently a chingón of some sorts. Cultural appropriation? Nah, gabachos just trying to hide their feo faces

 

Ask the Mexican at themexican@askamexican.net, be his fan on Facebook, follow him on Twitter @gustavoarellano or follow him on Instagram @gustavo_arellano!

 
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  1. a lot of Mexicans didn’t vote for Hillary for reasons ranging from her being a mujer to her pathetic Hispandering

    I’d love to get some independent corroboration of even the possibility of a latinx (or a negrox) resisting political pandering. I’m sure it happens, but my sense remains theoretical at this point.

    Pandering is popular because it works.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Aaron Aarons
    Pandering to the white sense of unsatisfied entitlement is what got Trump elected. That and, inter alia, (a) a lame opponent forced on the Democratic Party by the party's capitalist-dominated apparatus, (b) placing obstacles to non-white voter registration, and (c) refusal to allow a real count of votes in largely-non-white precincts where vote-counting machines were defective.
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  2. Mexicans don’t vote in the US elections.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Adar.
    Exactly the case. American citizens of Mexican ancestry may vote, but not Mexicans. I am sure many falsify documents and vote anyhow but that is illegal. As if the Mex care about legal or illegal.
    , @Weaver
    Mao Cheng Ji,

    It would be racist to restrict the vote to only American citizens.

    Only Trumplicans would ever get elected otherwise.
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  3. Marcus says:

    Continued immigration will make things peor para su familia, Gus is too much of a pendejo to take a long term view instead of short term racial pride gratification

    Read More
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  4. I know of Mexicans who despised Hillary with an unabating passion. Relatively few, I think, all in all, but there was this Mexican-born guy who served in both Iraq and Afghanistan who was infuriated by the women in combat policy. I think he would rather kill himself than vote Democrat.

    I didn’t much like him, I thought he was a simple man with harsh emotions, and a bit too sexist even for my perspective. But I admire him for sticking to the issues that mattered to him.

    Read More
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  5. J1234 says:

    they’ve pushed their numbers, which unsurprisingly show raza voting for Hillary Clinton in overwhelming numbers against Donald Trump.

    Another good reason to keep Mexicans out of the US.

    Read More
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  6. Adar. says:
    @Mao Cheng Ji
    Mexicans don't vote in the US elections.

    Exactly the case. American citizens of Mexican ancestry may vote, but not Mexicans. I am sure many falsify documents and vote anyhow but that is illegal. As if the Mex care about legal or illegal.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Aaron Aarons
    Trump says that over 3 million non-citizens voted in the recent election. Funny that neither he nor the rest of the Mexican-bashing scum have come up with the names of even 3! But I guess that the fanciful claim of all those non-citizen voters is just another example of "alternative facts"!

    Trump, BTW, also apparently located most of these imaginary non-citizen voters in California, a state where their votes wouldn't affect the results anyway. Those hypothetical millions would have to be really loco to risk a stiff prison sentence just so they could go through the ritual of voting without affecting the outcome.
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  7. Jefferson says:

    Cultural appropriation? Nah, gabachos just trying to hide their feo faces”

    Mexicans are the most feo Hispanics.

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  8. I’m an American of Mexican ancestry and a woman and I voted for Donald Trump. In fact, I even changed from the Democratic party to the Republican party so that I could vote for Mr. Trump in the primaries. I voted for him because from day 1 when he announced his candidacy he was the only candidate who talked about immigration in a realistic way. When I heard him speak that day, I said to myself, “He’s the candidate I’ve been waiting for.” He understands that immigration laws need to be enforced and he understands the value of walls. I understand how important enforcing our immigration laws is precisely because I’m an American of Mexican ancestry. I speak Spanish fluently and for years I’ve watched Mexicans and other foreign nationals abuse our system and disrespect my country and I grew tired of it. Mr. Arellano may think any Mexican-American who votes for Trump is a pendejo but I’d say the real pendejo is Mr. Arellano because it’s clear he’s so immersed in left-wing indoctrination that he can’t even be bothered to read what the opposing side has to say with an open mind.

    Read More
    • Replies: @interesting
    I think i know you in real life. You sound like some friends of mine that happen to be of Mexican heritage that are against ILLEGAL immigration because it makes all the work their ancestors did to get here meaningless.

    they are Americans fist and understand completely that illegal immigration hurts the poor among us the most,
    , @JamesG
    Thanks!

    A suggestion: write a letter to the NY Times. Polite and short is best. Your odds of being printed are very small but ... you never know.

    http://www.nytimes.com/content/help/site/editorial/letters/letters.html

    I wish I had thought of this but at least I have the good sense of remembering it: illegal immigration is to legal immigration as shop lifting is to shopping.
    , @Aaron Aarons
    If, as you claim, you are a woman and you speak Spanish fluently, you know that Señor Arellano would call you a "pendeja", not a "pendejo".

    BTW, Mexicans are Americans, as are the people of Central America and South America. In fact, the Mexicans who rebelled against Spanish rule in 1810 called themselves "los americanos", not "los mexicanos".
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  9. Jeff77450 says:

    I can only hope that no actual Mexicans committed the crime of voting in this past U.S. election. (Although complying with U.S. federal law, e.g. legal entry to the U.S., is not their strong point).

    I want *all* Americans to be constitutionally literate and objectively & thoroughly research the many issues, factoring out emotions as much as possible. Then vote your conscience. Don’t vote based on slogans & sound-bites.

    The following is said is with an absence of malice: The Leftist/Statist/Progressive/Liberal (as the word has come to be used) worldview is inherently flawed. It denies certain facts about human nature. “From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs” sounds great, it even sounds biblical (it is not) it just doesn’t work in the real world. People quite naturally want to be paid for the value of their work and they quite naturally want to keep their money to do with as they please. That may include giving it to what they believe to be worthy causes—but no one wants the proverbial gun held to their head.

    Related to the above, Leftists frequently don’t understand that if you reward a behavior that behavior tends to increase and if you punish a behavior that behavior tends to decrease. That they don’t understand the Principle of Causality, i.e. cause-and-effect relationships and the Law of Unintended Consequences. Cause: remove the stigma that used to be attached to out-of-wedlock births and create a slew of benefits for single mothers. Effect: we got a lot more single mothers. As per the CDC website, ~41% of children born in the U.S. are born out-of-wedlock with a comparable percentage raised by single-parents. Children born out-of-wedlock and/or raised by single-parents have, on average, worse life outcomes to include worse stats for crime, poverty, substance-abuse and dropping out of school.

    Cause: admit blacks & Latinos to colleges that they aren’t prepared for. Effect: a lower graduation-rate.

    Cause: tolerate illegal aliens in the U.S. Effect: depress wages and strain social-services.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Aaron Aarons
    You write,

    I can only hope that no actual Mexicans committed the crime of voting in this past U.S. election. (Although complying with U.S. federal law, e.g. legal entry to the U.S., is not their strong point).
     
    I also hope that no Mexicans exposed themselves to punishment for the purpose of voting in an election between two candidates of the U.S. capitalist ruling class. But, in general, I see absolutely no reason why a Mexican or Central American person, most of whom are of American indigenous ancestry, should respect the laws of the European settler-colonial, imperialist entity that might (affectionately, if one is an ophiophile) be called the United Snakes.
    , @Aaron Aarons

    People quite naturally want to be paid for the value of their work and they quite naturally want to keep their money to do with as they please.
     
    (1) There is no generally-agreed definition of the value of one's work. If you measure the value of someone's work by what those who have money are willing to pay for it, the work of a mob hitman, or of somebody who writes dishonest but effective ads for harmful products is worth a lot more than the work of a teacher or health-care worker.
    (2) When people "want to keep their money to do with as they please", one should ask how that money became "their money". Moreover, do those who object to paying taxes to support people in need also support the objection of many of us to paying taxes to support the armed forces and repressive apparatus of the capitalist state?

    Cause: admit blacks & Latinos to colleges that they aren’t prepared for. Effect: a lower graduation-rate.
     
    The value to society of education has little to do with graduate rates. But, rather than having separate higher education institutions for people of different levels of preparation, there can and should be classes and services, especially at the start, that are suitable for people with different levels of preparation and different aptitudes in each subject.

    Cause: tolerate illegal aliens in the U.S. Effect: depress wages and strain social-services.
     
    Preventing workers from oppressed nations from working in the U.S. depresses wages for those workers, and for those back home who are kept dependent on what the capitalists in their home countries will pay them, if they hire them at all. This is made even worse by the outrageous efforts of people like the new POtuS to stop companies from around the world from opening factories in Mexico!

    As for the idea that undocumented immigrants strain social services, they probably get back in services a smaller portion of the taxes they pay, or the taxes their cheap labor enables their employers to pay, than most workers get. And they would need a lot less of those services if they were allowed to work in normal jobs.
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  10. @NMObserver
    I'm an American of Mexican ancestry and a woman and I voted for Donald Trump. In fact, I even changed from the Democratic party to the Republican party so that I could vote for Mr. Trump in the primaries. I voted for him because from day 1 when he announced his candidacy he was the only candidate who talked about immigration in a realistic way. When I heard him speak that day, I said to myself, "He's the candidate I've been waiting for." He understands that immigration laws need to be enforced and he understands the value of walls. I understand how important enforcing our immigration laws is precisely because I'm an American of Mexican ancestry. I speak Spanish fluently and for years I've watched Mexicans and other foreign nationals abuse our system and disrespect my country and I grew tired of it. Mr. Arellano may think any Mexican-American who votes for Trump is a pendejo but I'd say the real pendejo is Mr. Arellano because it's clear he's so immersed in left-wing indoctrination that he can't even be bothered to read what the opposing side has to say with an open mind.

    I think i know you in real life. You sound like some friends of mine that happen to be of Mexican heritage that are against ILLEGAL immigration because it makes all the work their ancestors did to get here meaningless.

    they are Americans fist and understand completely that illegal immigration hurts the poor among us the most,

    Read More
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  11. This gringo has seen most of his cholo friends go for Trump.

    Read More
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  12. JamesG says:
    @NMObserver
    I'm an American of Mexican ancestry and a woman and I voted for Donald Trump. In fact, I even changed from the Democratic party to the Republican party so that I could vote for Mr. Trump in the primaries. I voted for him because from day 1 when he announced his candidacy he was the only candidate who talked about immigration in a realistic way. When I heard him speak that day, I said to myself, "He's the candidate I've been waiting for." He understands that immigration laws need to be enforced and he understands the value of walls. I understand how important enforcing our immigration laws is precisely because I'm an American of Mexican ancestry. I speak Spanish fluently and for years I've watched Mexicans and other foreign nationals abuse our system and disrespect my country and I grew tired of it. Mr. Arellano may think any Mexican-American who votes for Trump is a pendejo but I'd say the real pendejo is Mr. Arellano because it's clear he's so immersed in left-wing indoctrination that he can't even be bothered to read what the opposing side has to say with an open mind.

    Thanks!

    A suggestion: write a letter to the NY Times. Polite and short is best. Your odds of being printed are very small but … you never know.

    http://www.nytimes.com/content/help/site/editorial/letters/letters.html

    I wish I had thought of this but at least I have the good sense of remembering it: illegal immigration is to legal immigration as shop lifting is to shopping.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    ...illegal immigration is to legal immigration as shop lifting is to shopping.
     
    Or as rape is to lovemaking.

    But then a large majority of Mexican-American voters just told us that they are cool with rape, and with intimidation of its victims. Just as long as it's their team doing it.

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  13. Weaver says:
    @Mao Cheng Ji
    Mexicans don't vote in the US elections.

    Mao Cheng Ji,

    It would be racist to restrict the vote to only American citizens.

    Only Trumplicans would ever get elected otherwise.

    Read More
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  14. Weaver says:

    GUSTAVO ARELLANO,

    You dislike Trump… why? You wanted more wars, more wealth flooding overseas, more government waste, more corruption?

    Hillary was bad news.

    Read Trump’s speech. It’s real. That’s the stuff conservatives have been arguing since Pat Buchanan.

    If we don’t put Americans first, then we’re putting a global elite first. Why enrich the .01% with unearned gains?

    The only reason that makes sense is you feel that as a representative Mexican, you must oppose Trump… Where’s the principle?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Aaron Aarons
    Weaver writes:

    If we don’t put Americans first, then we’re putting a global elite first.
     
    So the approximately 96% of the global population that is neither United States "Americans" nor in the richest 0.01% of the global population don't exist, or only passively exist for their labor and resources to be fought over between the super rich and those whose more modest unearned wealth resides in their white skin and imperialist-nation citizenship?

    As a loyal citizen of Planet Earth, I put the working-class and poor majority of the planet's human inhabitants first over not only the rich, including both the members of the Trump regime and his ruling-class rivals, but over workers who defend their U.S.-citizen privileges against the far-more-oppressed-and-exploited workers of the rest of America, particularly Mexico and Central America.

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  15. As I understand it, exit polls were generally-accurate predictors of vote counts in the U.S. until the introduction, around 20 years ago, of electronic voting, after which there began to be frequent differences between exit poll results and official, usually unverifiable, vote counts.

    I suppose one could argue that the presence of electronic voting machines somehow messed up the exit polls, making them inaccurate, but I suspect there’s a less magical explanation.

    Read More
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  16. @Weaver
    GUSTAVO ARELLANO,

    You dislike Trump... why? You wanted more wars, more wealth flooding overseas, more government waste, more corruption?

    Hillary was bad news.

    Read Trump's speech. It's real. That's the stuff conservatives have been arguing since Pat Buchanan.

    If we don't put Americans first, then we're putting a global elite first. Why enrich the .01% with unearned gains?

    The only reason that makes sense is you feel that as a representative Mexican, you must oppose Trump... Where's the principle?

    Weaver writes:

    If we don’t put Americans first, then we’re putting a global elite first.

    So the approximately 96% of the global population that is neither United States “Americans” nor in the richest 0.01% of the global population don’t exist, or only passively exist for their labor and resources to be fought over between the super rich and those whose more modest unearned wealth resides in their white skin and imperialist-nation citizenship?

    As a loyal citizen of Planet Earth, I put the working-class and poor majority of the planet’s human inhabitants first over not only the rich, including both the members of the Trump regime and his ruling-class rivals, but over workers who defend their U.S.-citizen privileges against the far-more-oppressed-and-exploited workers of the rest of America, particularly Mexico and Central America.

    Read More
    • Replies: @grapesoda
    jealous much lol. Yeah I know it sucks to be a mediocrity but you're just gonna have to suck it up pal :P
    , @StillFree
    You have to have plenty of privilege to think like that. LOL
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  17. As a loyal citizen of Planet Earth, I put the working-class and poor majority of the planet’s human inhabitants first over not only the rich, including both the members of the Trump regime and his ruling-class rivals, but over workers who defend their U.S.-citizen privileges against the far-more-oppressed-and-exploited workers of the rest of America, particularly Mexico and Central America.

    YOU SHOULD BE EMBARRASSED….most people i know who’ve referred to themselves as a “citizen of Planet Earth” are pompous assholes or clueless sheep.

    which one are you?

    Read More
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  18. @Jeff77450
    I can only hope that no actual Mexicans committed the crime of voting in this past U.S. election. (Although complying with U.S. federal law, e.g. legal entry to the U.S., is not their strong point).

    I want *all* Americans to be constitutionally literate and objectively & thoroughly research the many issues, factoring out emotions as much as possible. Then vote your conscience. Don't vote based on slogans & sound-bites.

    The following is said is with an absence of malice: The Leftist/Statist/Progressive/Liberal (as the word has come to be used) worldview is inherently flawed. It denies certain facts about human nature. "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" sounds great, it even sounds biblical (it is not) it just doesn't work in the real world. People quite naturally want to be paid for the value of their work and they quite naturally want to keep their money to do with as they please. That may include giving it to what they believe to be worthy causes---but no one wants the proverbial gun held to their head.

    Related to the above, Leftists frequently don't understand that if you reward a behavior that behavior tends to increase and if you punish a behavior that behavior tends to decrease. That they don't understand the Principle of Causality, i.e. cause-and-effect relationships and the Law of Unintended Consequences. Cause: remove the stigma that used to be attached to out-of-wedlock births and create a slew of benefits for single mothers. Effect: we got a lot more single mothers. As per the CDC website, ~41% of children born in the U.S. are born out-of-wedlock with a comparable percentage raised by single-parents. Children born out-of-wedlock and/or raised by single-parents have, on average, worse life outcomes to include worse stats for crime, poverty, substance-abuse and dropping out of school.

    Cause: admit blacks & Latinos to colleges that they aren't prepared for. Effect: a lower graduation-rate.

    Cause: tolerate illegal aliens in the U.S. Effect: depress wages and strain social-services.

    You write,

    I can only hope that no actual Mexicans committed the crime of voting in this past U.S. election. (Although complying with U.S. federal law, e.g. legal entry to the U.S., is not their strong point).

    I also hope that no Mexicans exposed themselves to punishment for the purpose of voting in an election between two candidates of the U.S. capitalist ruling class. But, in general, I see absolutely no reason why a Mexican or Central American person, most of whom are of American indigenous ancestry, should respect the laws of the European settler-colonial, imperialist entity that might (affectionately, if one is an ophiophile) be called the United Snakes.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Clyde
    Thanks for pontificating. Where do you live? In Europe?
    , @Mao Cheng Ji

    But, in general, I see absolutely no reason why a Mexican or Central American person, most of whom are of American indigenous ancestry, should respect the laws of the European settler-colonial, imperialist entity that might (affectionately, if one is an ophiophile) be called the United Snakes.
     
    Statute of limitations. Too much time has passed since the original colonization, for a reasonable person to refer to it as the reason to disregard the law. In my opinion.
    , @Daniel Chieh
    The law applies to you whether you like it or not.
    , @interesting
    "Mexican or Central American person, most of whom are of American indigenous ancestry"


    That is an illogical statement and based on hate AND exclusion. If my ancestry has been in north America for over 200 years how DO YOU know if i don't have some native blood in me even though my skin tone isn't your preferred color? As i am SURE everything in your moronic world view is based on skin tone and past colonial grievances.....which has become an industry of late.....and a well paying one at that....use this column as proof.

    Also......you do realize that Mexicans speak Spanish, right? Isn't that a European language? And by your measure anyone with 1 drop of European colonial blood SHOULDN'T be able to vote in either election.....right? Have you seen what the Mexican congress looks like dumb dumb? Most of them look more white European than i do.

    You race baiting, lets spend the future by shaming those of the past, trolls really aren't thinking your trolls thru very well. You should be embarrassed.
    , @StillFree
    You like to hear yourself I bet. What a twit.
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  19. grapesoda says:
    @Aaron Aarons
    Weaver writes:

    If we don’t put Americans first, then we’re putting a global elite first.
     
    So the approximately 96% of the global population that is neither United States "Americans" nor in the richest 0.01% of the global population don't exist, or only passively exist for their labor and resources to be fought over between the super rich and those whose more modest unearned wealth resides in their white skin and imperialist-nation citizenship?

    As a loyal citizen of Planet Earth, I put the working-class and poor majority of the planet's human inhabitants first over not only the rich, including both the members of the Trump regime and his ruling-class rivals, but over workers who defend their U.S.-citizen privileges against the far-more-oppressed-and-exploited workers of the rest of America, particularly Mexico and Central America.

    jealous much lol. Yeah I know it sucks to be a mediocrity but you’re just gonna have to suck it up pal :P

    Read More
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  20. Clyde says:
    @Aaron Aarons
    You write,

    I can only hope that no actual Mexicans committed the crime of voting in this past U.S. election. (Although complying with U.S. federal law, e.g. legal entry to the U.S., is not their strong point).
     
    I also hope that no Mexicans exposed themselves to punishment for the purpose of voting in an election between two candidates of the U.S. capitalist ruling class. But, in general, I see absolutely no reason why a Mexican or Central American person, most of whom are of American indigenous ancestry, should respect the laws of the European settler-colonial, imperialist entity that might (affectionately, if one is an ophiophile) be called the United Snakes.

    Thanks for pontificating. Where do you live? In Europe?

    Read More
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  21. @Aaron Aarons
    You write,

    I can only hope that no actual Mexicans committed the crime of voting in this past U.S. election. (Although complying with U.S. federal law, e.g. legal entry to the U.S., is not their strong point).
     
    I also hope that no Mexicans exposed themselves to punishment for the purpose of voting in an election between two candidates of the U.S. capitalist ruling class. But, in general, I see absolutely no reason why a Mexican or Central American person, most of whom are of American indigenous ancestry, should respect the laws of the European settler-colonial, imperialist entity that might (affectionately, if one is an ophiophile) be called the United Snakes.

    But, in general, I see absolutely no reason why a Mexican or Central American person, most of whom are of American indigenous ancestry, should respect the laws of the European settler-colonial, imperialist entity that might (affectionately, if one is an ophiophile) be called the United Snakes.

    Statute of limitations. Too much time has passed since the original colonization, for a reasonable person to refer to it as the reason to disregard the law. In my opinion.

    Read More
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  22. @Aaron Aarons
    You write,

    I can only hope that no actual Mexicans committed the crime of voting in this past U.S. election. (Although complying with U.S. federal law, e.g. legal entry to the U.S., is not their strong point).
     
    I also hope that no Mexicans exposed themselves to punishment for the purpose of voting in an election between two candidates of the U.S. capitalist ruling class. But, in general, I see absolutely no reason why a Mexican or Central American person, most of whom are of American indigenous ancestry, should respect the laws of the European settler-colonial, imperialist entity that might (affectionately, if one is an ophiophile) be called the United Snakes.

    The law applies to you whether you like it or not.

    Read More
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  23. @Aaron Aarons
    You write,

    I can only hope that no actual Mexicans committed the crime of voting in this past U.S. election. (Although complying with U.S. federal law, e.g. legal entry to the U.S., is not their strong point).
     
    I also hope that no Mexicans exposed themselves to punishment for the purpose of voting in an election between two candidates of the U.S. capitalist ruling class. But, in general, I see absolutely no reason why a Mexican or Central American person, most of whom are of American indigenous ancestry, should respect the laws of the European settler-colonial, imperialist entity that might (affectionately, if one is an ophiophile) be called the United Snakes.

    “Mexican or Central American person, most of whom are of American indigenous ancestry”

    That is an illogical statement and based on hate AND exclusion. If my ancestry has been in north America for over 200 years how DO YOU know if i don’t have some native blood in me even though my skin tone isn’t your preferred color? As i am SURE everything in your moronic world view is based on skin tone and past colonial grievances…..which has become an industry of late…..and a well paying one at that….use this column as proof.

    Also……you do realize that Mexicans speak Spanish, right? Isn’t that a European language? And by your measure anyone with 1 drop of European colonial blood SHOULDN’T be able to vote in either election…..right? Have you seen what the Mexican congress looks like dumb dumb? Most of them look more white European than i do.

    You race baiting, lets spend the future by shaming those of the past, trolls really aren’t thinking your trolls thru very well. You should be embarrassed.

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    • Replies: @Aaron Aarons
    The entire 500-year history of the European, originally English, settler colony that became the United States of America about 230 years ago is one of racist exclusion against the indigenous peoples, most of whom were nearly wiped out, against the kidnapped, enslaved Africans and their descendants, and others, like the Chinese who were imported to build the railroads. Others, who are now regarded as "white", also were racially discriminated against, but to a lesser degree. They and, to some extent, the Chinese and other Asians, have been, to various degrees, assimilated (economically and politically, if not socially) into the majority population.

    I am not arguing for discrimination against "white" people or other so-called "Americans", meaning U.S. citizens. I am just arguing that those people should not have privileged access to the land or resources of the part of North America, or of other lands (like Hawaii) that the political construct called the United States claims as its own.

    This rejection of privilege applies as well to those who claim ownership of or control over a disproportionate share of the land or resources of the planet based on the holding of property titles of any kind, even if they didn't benefit from ethnic or national privilege.
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  24. As VDARE often points out, the Mexican ruling class is just about 100% white and European.
    Just sayin’. Senor Arellano debe ser indio y celoso.

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  25. @interesting
    "Mexican or Central American person, most of whom are of American indigenous ancestry"


    That is an illogical statement and based on hate AND exclusion. If my ancestry has been in north America for over 200 years how DO YOU know if i don't have some native blood in me even though my skin tone isn't your preferred color? As i am SURE everything in your moronic world view is based on skin tone and past colonial grievances.....which has become an industry of late.....and a well paying one at that....use this column as proof.

    Also......you do realize that Mexicans speak Spanish, right? Isn't that a European language? And by your measure anyone with 1 drop of European colonial blood SHOULDN'T be able to vote in either election.....right? Have you seen what the Mexican congress looks like dumb dumb? Most of them look more white European than i do.

    You race baiting, lets spend the future by shaming those of the past, trolls really aren't thinking your trolls thru very well. You should be embarrassed.

    The entire 500-year history of the European, originally English, settler colony that became the United States of America about 230 years ago is one of racist exclusion against the indigenous peoples, most of whom were nearly wiped out, against the kidnapped, enslaved Africans and their descendants, and others, like the Chinese who were imported to build the railroads. Others, who are now regarded as “white”, also were racially discriminated against, but to a lesser degree. They and, to some extent, the Chinese and other Asians, have been, to various degrees, assimilated (economically and politically, if not socially) into the majority population.

    I am not arguing for discrimination against “white” people or other so-called “Americans”, meaning U.S. citizens. I am just arguing that those people should not have privileged access to the land or resources of the part of North America, or of other lands (like Hawaii) that the political construct called the United States claims as its own.

    This rejection of privilege applies as well to those who claim ownership of or control over a disproportionate share of the land or resources of the planet based on the holding of property titles of any kind, even if they didn’t benefit from ethnic or national privilege.

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    • Replies: @Mao Cheng Ji

    I am just arguing that those people should not have privileged access to the land or resources of the part of North America, or of other lands (like Hawaii) that the political construct called the United States claims as its own.
     
    "Those people" don't have privileged (or any other) access to anything. Those people are long dead.
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  26. @Kyle McKenna

    a lot of Mexicans didn’t vote for Hillary for reasons ranging from her being a mujer to her pathetic Hispandering
     
    I'd love to get some independent corroboration of even the possibility of a latinx (or a negrox) resisting political pandering. I'm sure it happens, but my sense remains theoretical at this point.

    Pandering is popular because it works.

    Pandering to the white sense of unsatisfied entitlement is what got Trump elected. That and, inter alia, (a) a lame opponent forced on the Democratic Party by the party’s capitalist-dominated apparatus, (b) placing obstacles to non-white voter registration, and (c) refusal to allow a real count of votes in largely-non-white precincts where vote-counting machines were defective.

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  27. @Adar.
    Exactly the case. American citizens of Mexican ancestry may vote, but not Mexicans. I am sure many falsify documents and vote anyhow but that is illegal. As if the Mex care about legal or illegal.

    Trump says that over 3 million non-citizens voted in the recent election. Funny that neither he nor the rest of the Mexican-bashing scum have come up with the names of even 3! But I guess that the fanciful claim of all those non-citizen voters is just another example of “alternative facts”!

    Trump, BTW, also apparently located most of these imaginary non-citizen voters in California, a state where their votes wouldn’t affect the results anyway. Those hypothetical millions would have to be really loco to risk a stiff prison sentence just so they could go through the ritual of voting without affecting the outcome.

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    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Those hypothetical millions would have to be really loco to risk a stiff prison sentence...
     
    You're assuming it was done consciously. But many non-citizens were registered automatically through motor-voter and other devices. A columnist mostly sympathetic to immigrants brought up an interesting angle-- the more educated the alien, the less likely he was to have been improperly registered.

    So the smart ones are catching it, and the dumb ones, not so much. Or maybe the intelligence of the folks at the DMV varies widely by neighborhood-- their manners sure do!-- and the suburban clerks serving a resident alien of the professional class are more likely to notice-- or want to notice-- an applicant's ineligibility to register.

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  28. @Aaron Aarons
    The entire 500-year history of the European, originally English, settler colony that became the United States of America about 230 years ago is one of racist exclusion against the indigenous peoples, most of whom were nearly wiped out, against the kidnapped, enslaved Africans and their descendants, and others, like the Chinese who were imported to build the railroads. Others, who are now regarded as "white", also were racially discriminated against, but to a lesser degree. They and, to some extent, the Chinese and other Asians, have been, to various degrees, assimilated (economically and politically, if not socially) into the majority population.

    I am not arguing for discrimination against "white" people or other so-called "Americans", meaning U.S. citizens. I am just arguing that those people should not have privileged access to the land or resources of the part of North America, or of other lands (like Hawaii) that the political construct called the United States claims as its own.

    This rejection of privilege applies as well to those who claim ownership of or control over a disproportionate share of the land or resources of the planet based on the holding of property titles of any kind, even if they didn't benefit from ethnic or national privilege.

    I am just arguing that those people should not have privileged access to the land or resources of the part of North America, or of other lands (like Hawaii) that the political construct called the United States claims as its own.

    “Those people” don’t have privileged (or any other) access to anything. Those people are long dead.

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    • Replies: @Aaron Aarons

    “Those people” don’t have privileged (or any other) access to anything. Those people are long dead.
     
    “Those people” to whom I am referring are present-day citizens of the political entity established by settler colonialism and enriched by genocide (the kind that kills people and/or violently suppresses their cultures, not like so-called "white genocide"), slavery and imperialism.
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  29. @Mao Cheng Ji

    I am just arguing that those people should not have privileged access to the land or resources of the part of North America, or of other lands (like Hawaii) that the political construct called the United States claims as its own.
     
    "Those people" don't have privileged (or any other) access to anything. Those people are long dead.

    “Those people” don’t have privileged (or any other) access to anything. Those people are long dead.

    “Those people” to whom I am referring are present-day citizens of the political entity established by settler colonialism and enriched by genocide (the kind that kills people and/or violently suppresses their cultures, not like so-called “white genocide”), slavery and imperialism.

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    • Replies: @Mao Cheng Ji

    “Those people” to whom I am referring are present-day citizens of the political entity established by settler colonialism and enriched by genocide
     
    In that case, 'those people' include everyone in the world today.

    It's one thing to oppose imperialism as it's happening now, and a completely different one to blame people for something that happened long before they were born.
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  30. @Aaron Aarons

    “Those people” don’t have privileged (or any other) access to anything. Those people are long dead.
     
    “Those people” to whom I am referring are present-day citizens of the political entity established by settler colonialism and enriched by genocide (the kind that kills people and/or violently suppresses their cultures, not like so-called "white genocide"), slavery and imperialism.

    “Those people” to whom I am referring are present-day citizens of the political entity established by settler colonialism and enriched by genocide

    In that case, ‘those people’ include everyone in the world today.

    It’s one thing to oppose imperialism as it’s happening now, and a completely different one to blame people for something that happened long before they were born.

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    • Replies: @interesting
    Trying to use logic and reason with perpetual victims is a wast of time.

    We have an entire generation that has been raised to base all their decisions and views on past grievances......the older the better. I really hope the left realizes what they have done, created a whole generation of victims, but i doubt it.

    It's these perpetual victims that have their hands out looking for the free shit as if it is "owed" to them because, hey, who wants to have to work for a living, and the grievance industry pays and pays well. This new breed of racists take the moral high ground and have been raised to "think" they can't be racist...little do they know how racist they are.......as it is 100% all about skin color.....AKA racism.

    , @Aaron Aarons

    In that case, ‘those people’ include everyone in the world today.
     
    If one reads comments #27-29 above, the falsity of this statement is obvious.

    It’s one thing to oppose imperialism as it’s happening now, and a completely different one to blame people for something that happened long before they were born.
     
    I don't "blame" anybody for being heirs to stolen wealth. I do blame them if they fight to keep that stolen wealth for themselves.
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  31. @Mao Cheng Ji

    “Those people” to whom I am referring are present-day citizens of the political entity established by settler colonialism and enriched by genocide
     
    In that case, 'those people' include everyone in the world today.

    It's one thing to oppose imperialism as it's happening now, and a completely different one to blame people for something that happened long before they were born.

    Trying to use logic and reason with perpetual victims is a wast of time.

    We have an entire generation that has been raised to base all their decisions and views on past grievances……the older the better. I really hope the left realizes what they have done, created a whole generation of victims, but i doubt it.

    It’s these perpetual victims that have their hands out looking for the free shit as if it is “owed” to them because, hey, who wants to have to work for a living, and the grievance industry pays and pays well. This new breed of racists take the moral high ground and have been raised to “think” they can’t be racist…little do they know how racist they are…….as it is 100% all about skin color…..AKA racism.

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  32. @NMObserver
    I'm an American of Mexican ancestry and a woman and I voted for Donald Trump. In fact, I even changed from the Democratic party to the Republican party so that I could vote for Mr. Trump in the primaries. I voted for him because from day 1 when he announced his candidacy he was the only candidate who talked about immigration in a realistic way. When I heard him speak that day, I said to myself, "He's the candidate I've been waiting for." He understands that immigration laws need to be enforced and he understands the value of walls. I understand how important enforcing our immigration laws is precisely because I'm an American of Mexican ancestry. I speak Spanish fluently and for years I've watched Mexicans and other foreign nationals abuse our system and disrespect my country and I grew tired of it. Mr. Arellano may think any Mexican-American who votes for Trump is a pendejo but I'd say the real pendejo is Mr. Arellano because it's clear he's so immersed in left-wing indoctrination that he can't even be bothered to read what the opposing side has to say with an open mind.

    If, as you claim, you are a woman and you speak Spanish fluently, you know that Señor Arellano would call you a “pendeja”, not a “pendejo”.

    BTW, Mexicans are Americans, as are the people of Central America and South America. In fact, the Mexicans who rebelled against Spanish rule in 1810 called themselves “los americanos”, not “los mexicanos”.

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  33. @Aaron Aarons
    Trump says that over 3 million non-citizens voted in the recent election. Funny that neither he nor the rest of the Mexican-bashing scum have come up with the names of even 3! But I guess that the fanciful claim of all those non-citizen voters is just another example of "alternative facts"!

    Trump, BTW, also apparently located most of these imaginary non-citizen voters in California, a state where their votes wouldn't affect the results anyway. Those hypothetical millions would have to be really loco to risk a stiff prison sentence just so they could go through the ritual of voting without affecting the outcome.

    Those hypothetical millions would have to be really loco to risk a stiff prison sentence…

    You’re assuming it was done consciously. But many non-citizens were registered automatically through motor-voter and other devices. A columnist mostly sympathetic to immigrants brought up an interesting angle– the more educated the alien, the less likely he was to have been improperly registered.

    So the smart ones are catching it, and the dumb ones, not so much. Or maybe the intelligence of the folks at the DMV varies widely by neighborhood– their manners sure do!– and the suburban clerks serving a resident alien of the professional class are more likely to notice– or want to notice– an applicant’s ineligibility to register.

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    • Replies: @Aaron Aarons
    The hypothesis that "many [how many?] non-citizens were registered automatically through motor-voter and other devices" is irrelevant. The relevant question, for those who are concerned with legitimizing the oranguturd with imaginary majority support among legal voters, is how many non-citizens actually voted. So far, they haven't come up with names of non-citizens who voted, and, despite the immense wealth of the Trumpistas, they haven't been willing to spend even a small chunk of it to find any non-citizen needles in the haystack of voters.
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  34. @JamesG
    Thanks!

    A suggestion: write a letter to the NY Times. Polite and short is best. Your odds of being printed are very small but ... you never know.

    http://www.nytimes.com/content/help/site/editorial/letters/letters.html

    I wish I had thought of this but at least I have the good sense of remembering it: illegal immigration is to legal immigration as shop lifting is to shopping.

    …illegal immigration is to legal immigration as shop lifting is to shopping.

    Or as rape is to lovemaking.

    But then a large majority of Mexican-American voters just told us that they are cool with rape, and with intimidation of its victims. Just as long as it’s their team doing it.

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    • Disagree: Aaron Aarons
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  35. StillFree says:
    @Aaron Aarons
    Weaver writes:

    If we don’t put Americans first, then we’re putting a global elite first.
     
    So the approximately 96% of the global population that is neither United States "Americans" nor in the richest 0.01% of the global population don't exist, or only passively exist for their labor and resources to be fought over between the super rich and those whose more modest unearned wealth resides in their white skin and imperialist-nation citizenship?

    As a loyal citizen of Planet Earth, I put the working-class and poor majority of the planet's human inhabitants first over not only the rich, including both the members of the Trump regime and his ruling-class rivals, but over workers who defend their U.S.-citizen privileges against the far-more-oppressed-and-exploited workers of the rest of America, particularly Mexico and Central America.

    You have to have plenty of privilege to think like that. LOL

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  36. StillFree says:
    @Aaron Aarons
    You write,

    I can only hope that no actual Mexicans committed the crime of voting in this past U.S. election. (Although complying with U.S. federal law, e.g. legal entry to the U.S., is not their strong point).
     
    I also hope that no Mexicans exposed themselves to punishment for the purpose of voting in an election between two candidates of the U.S. capitalist ruling class. But, in general, I see absolutely no reason why a Mexican or Central American person, most of whom are of American indigenous ancestry, should respect the laws of the European settler-colonial, imperialist entity that might (affectionately, if one is an ophiophile) be called the United Snakes.

    You like to hear yourself I bet. What a twit.

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  37. @Mao Cheng Ji

    “Those people” to whom I am referring are present-day citizens of the political entity established by settler colonialism and enriched by genocide
     
    In that case, 'those people' include everyone in the world today.

    It's one thing to oppose imperialism as it's happening now, and a completely different one to blame people for something that happened long before they were born.

    In that case, ‘those people’ include everyone in the world today.

    If one reads comments #27-29 above, the falsity of this statement is obvious.

    It’s one thing to oppose imperialism as it’s happening now, and a completely different one to blame people for something that happened long before they were born.

    I don’t “blame” anybody for being heirs to stolen wealth. I do blame them if they fight to keep that stolen wealth for themselves.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mao Cheng Ji

    If one reads comments #27-29 above, the falsity of this statement is obvious.
     
    I don't think so. What I meant is that everyone in the world today has benefited, over the centuries and millennia, from his/her ancestors being (or belonging to a group of) vicious bastards (colonialists, perpetrators of genocides). Otherwise, you just wouldn't be alive today.

    I do blame them if they fight to keep that stolen wealth for themselves.
     
    They were born, and lived their lives according to the rules of the human civilization, as it's organized today: as citizens of a nation-state, with governments, borders, passports, and visas. You don't like these rules, I get it. But the nation-state serves other purposes too: law and order, industries with division of labor, schools, arts - civilization. Remove the borders and passports, and there's a good chance all that goes to hell in a handbasket. In the end, you are likely to get something worse than colonialism and genocide... Leviathan, Hobbes, you know?
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  38. @Jeff77450
    I can only hope that no actual Mexicans committed the crime of voting in this past U.S. election. (Although complying with U.S. federal law, e.g. legal entry to the U.S., is not their strong point).

    I want *all* Americans to be constitutionally literate and objectively & thoroughly research the many issues, factoring out emotions as much as possible. Then vote your conscience. Don't vote based on slogans & sound-bites.

    The following is said is with an absence of malice: The Leftist/Statist/Progressive/Liberal (as the word has come to be used) worldview is inherently flawed. It denies certain facts about human nature. "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" sounds great, it even sounds biblical (it is not) it just doesn't work in the real world. People quite naturally want to be paid for the value of their work and they quite naturally want to keep their money to do with as they please. That may include giving it to what they believe to be worthy causes---but no one wants the proverbial gun held to their head.

    Related to the above, Leftists frequently don't understand that if you reward a behavior that behavior tends to increase and if you punish a behavior that behavior tends to decrease. That they don't understand the Principle of Causality, i.e. cause-and-effect relationships and the Law of Unintended Consequences. Cause: remove the stigma that used to be attached to out-of-wedlock births and create a slew of benefits for single mothers. Effect: we got a lot more single mothers. As per the CDC website, ~41% of children born in the U.S. are born out-of-wedlock with a comparable percentage raised by single-parents. Children born out-of-wedlock and/or raised by single-parents have, on average, worse life outcomes to include worse stats for crime, poverty, substance-abuse and dropping out of school.

    Cause: admit blacks & Latinos to colleges that they aren't prepared for. Effect: a lower graduation-rate.

    Cause: tolerate illegal aliens in the U.S. Effect: depress wages and strain social-services.

    People quite naturally want to be paid for the value of their work and they quite naturally want to keep their money to do with as they please.

    (1) There is no generally-agreed definition of the value of one’s work. If you measure the value of someone’s work by what those who have money are willing to pay for it, the work of a mob hitman, or of somebody who writes dishonest but effective ads for harmful products is worth a lot more than the work of a teacher or health-care worker.
    (2) When people “want to keep their money to do with as they please”, one should ask how that money became “their money”. Moreover, do those who object to paying taxes to support people in need also support the objection of many of us to paying taxes to support the armed forces and repressive apparatus of the capitalist state?

    Cause: admit blacks & Latinos to colleges that they aren’t prepared for. Effect: a lower graduation-rate.

    The value to society of education has little to do with graduate rates. But, rather than having separate higher education institutions for people of different levels of preparation, there can and should be classes and services, especially at the start, that are suitable for people with different levels of preparation and different aptitudes in each subject.

    Cause: tolerate illegal aliens in the U.S. Effect: depress wages and strain social-services.

    Preventing workers from oppressed nations from working in the U.S. depresses wages for those workers, and for those back home who are kept dependent on what the capitalists in their home countries will pay them, if they hire them at all. This is made even worse by the outrageous efforts of people like the new POtuS to stop companies from around the world from opening factories in Mexico!

    As for the idea that undocumented immigrants strain social services, they probably get back in services a smaller portion of the taxes they pay, or the taxes their cheap labor enables their employers to pay, than most workers get. And they would need a lot less of those services if they were allowed to work in normal jobs.

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  39. @Aaron Aarons

    In that case, ‘those people’ include everyone in the world today.
     
    If one reads comments #27-29 above, the falsity of this statement is obvious.

    It’s one thing to oppose imperialism as it’s happening now, and a completely different one to blame people for something that happened long before they were born.
     
    I don't "blame" anybody for being heirs to stolen wealth. I do blame them if they fight to keep that stolen wealth for themselves.

    If one reads comments #27-29 above, the falsity of this statement is obvious.

    I don’t think so. What I meant is that everyone in the world today has benefited, over the centuries and millennia, from his/her ancestors being (or belonging to a group of) vicious bastards (colonialists, perpetrators of genocides). Otherwise, you just wouldn’t be alive today.

    I do blame them if they fight to keep that stolen wealth for themselves.

    They were born, and lived their lives according to the rules of the human civilization, as it’s organized today: as citizens of a nation-state, with governments, borders, passports, and visas. You don’t like these rules, I get it. But the nation-state serves other purposes too: law and order, industries with division of labor, schools, arts – civilization. Remove the borders and passports, and there’s a good chance all that goes to hell in a handbasket. In the end, you are likely to get something worse than colonialism and genocide… Leviathan, Hobbes, you know?

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    • Replies: @Aaron Aarons

    What I meant is that everyone in the world today has benefited, over the centuries and millennia, from his/her ancestors being (or belonging to a group of) vicious bastards (colonialists, perpetrators of genocides). Otherwise, you just wouldn’t be alive today.
     
    That's true, but that doesn't mean that the heirs of the most successful predators have any right that the rest of humanity needs to recognize to keep a privileged access to the existing natural and human-created wealth of the planet.

    As for your last paragraph, I have neither the time, the energy, nor the inclination to get into a discussion of the merits of the nation-state. The point is that the imperialist countries have not respected the sovereignty of any nation-state that got in the way of their expansion (sometimes) and plunder (regularly), and it is the height of arrogance for the rulers and privileged citizens of such imperialist countries to demand from their victims respect for their "sovereign" right to enjoy the fruits of their plunder.
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  40. @Mao Cheng Ji

    If one reads comments #27-29 above, the falsity of this statement is obvious.
     
    I don't think so. What I meant is that everyone in the world today has benefited, over the centuries and millennia, from his/her ancestors being (or belonging to a group of) vicious bastards (colonialists, perpetrators of genocides). Otherwise, you just wouldn't be alive today.

    I do blame them if they fight to keep that stolen wealth for themselves.
     
    They were born, and lived their lives according to the rules of the human civilization, as it's organized today: as citizens of a nation-state, with governments, borders, passports, and visas. You don't like these rules, I get it. But the nation-state serves other purposes too: law and order, industries with division of labor, schools, arts - civilization. Remove the borders and passports, and there's a good chance all that goes to hell in a handbasket. In the end, you are likely to get something worse than colonialism and genocide... Leviathan, Hobbes, you know?

    What I meant is that everyone in the world today has benefited, over the centuries and millennia, from his/her ancestors being (or belonging to a group of) vicious bastards (colonialists, perpetrators of genocides). Otherwise, you just wouldn’t be alive today.

    That’s true, but that doesn’t mean that the heirs of the most successful predators have any right that the rest of humanity needs to recognize to keep a privileged access to the existing natural and human-created wealth of the planet.

    As for your last paragraph, I have neither the time, the energy, nor the inclination to get into a discussion of the merits of the nation-state. The point is that the imperialist countries have not respected the sovereignty of any nation-state that got in the way of their expansion (sometimes) and plunder (regularly), and it is the height of arrogance for the rulers and privileged citizens of such imperialist countries to demand from their victims respect for their “sovereign” right to enjoy the fruits of their plunder.

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    • Replies: @Mao Cheng Ji

    The point is that the imperialist countries have not respected the sovereignty of any nation-state that got in the way of their expansion (sometimes) and plunder (regularly), and it is the height of arrogance for the rulers and privileged citizens of such imperialist countries to demand from their victims respect for their “sovereign” right to enjoy the fruits of their plunder.
     
    I'm very much against all forms of imperialism, but it seems to me that 'anti-imperialist' is synonymous with 'pro-sovereignty'. There's noting 'privileged' about being an ordinary citizen, and I find your view, simultaneously anti-imperialist and (albeit selectively) anti-sovereignty, logically contradictory.

    And that's all I have.
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  41. @Reg Cæsar

    Those hypothetical millions would have to be really loco to risk a stiff prison sentence...
     
    You're assuming it was done consciously. But many non-citizens were registered automatically through motor-voter and other devices. A columnist mostly sympathetic to immigrants brought up an interesting angle-- the more educated the alien, the less likely he was to have been improperly registered.

    So the smart ones are catching it, and the dumb ones, not so much. Or maybe the intelligence of the folks at the DMV varies widely by neighborhood-- their manners sure do!-- and the suburban clerks serving a resident alien of the professional class are more likely to notice-- or want to notice-- an applicant's ineligibility to register.

    The hypothesis that “many [how many?] non-citizens were registered automatically through motor-voter and other devices” is irrelevant. The relevant question, for those who are concerned with legitimizing the oranguturd with imaginary majority support among legal voters, is how many non-citizens actually voted. So far, they haven’t come up with names of non-citizens who voted, and, despite the immense wealth of the Trumpistas, they haven’t been willing to spend even a small chunk of it to find any non-citizen needles in the haystack of voters.

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  42. @Aaron Aarons

    What I meant is that everyone in the world today has benefited, over the centuries and millennia, from his/her ancestors being (or belonging to a group of) vicious bastards (colonialists, perpetrators of genocides). Otherwise, you just wouldn’t be alive today.
     
    That's true, but that doesn't mean that the heirs of the most successful predators have any right that the rest of humanity needs to recognize to keep a privileged access to the existing natural and human-created wealth of the planet.

    As for your last paragraph, I have neither the time, the energy, nor the inclination to get into a discussion of the merits of the nation-state. The point is that the imperialist countries have not respected the sovereignty of any nation-state that got in the way of their expansion (sometimes) and plunder (regularly), and it is the height of arrogance for the rulers and privileged citizens of such imperialist countries to demand from their victims respect for their "sovereign" right to enjoy the fruits of their plunder.

    The point is that the imperialist countries have not respected the sovereignty of any nation-state that got in the way of their expansion (sometimes) and plunder (regularly), and it is the height of arrogance for the rulers and privileged citizens of such imperialist countries to demand from their victims respect for their “sovereign” right to enjoy the fruits of their plunder.

    I’m very much against all forms of imperialism, but it seems to me that ‘anti-imperialist’ is synonymous with ‘pro-sovereignty’. There’s noting ‘privileged’ about being an ordinary citizen, and I find your view, simultaneously anti-imperialist and (albeit selectively) anti-sovereignty, logically contradictory.

    And that’s all I have.

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