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The other night we watched a documentary, The Dark Net, on Netflix on child pornography. Dim as I am, I didn’t realize that there was such a huge amount of it, mostly on the Darknet. This refers to transmission of material by layered encryption and quickly becomes technical: TOR, asymmetric encryption, IP packets, session keys, and so on. The upshot is that a staggering swamp of kid porn is out there, and it is almost impossible to eliminate.

The stuff is nasty. Children of eight or nine, mostly girls, forced to do naked live-cam chat with strange men on other continents, to engage in all the sexual behavior you can think of. No equipment is needed beyond a laptop and a webcam. In interviews, pedophiles say that they know it is wrong, but cannot keep themselves from consuming the stuff. Whether you buy this or not, they obviously will watch when they know there is no danger of being caught. Which means that children will continue being forced to make it.

It tends to come from poor countries where children are easily exploited. In the bush world, corruption, official inattention, and lack of resources mean that nothing much will be done, no matter the level of Western indignation.

And it becomes morally tricky. What to do if you catch those making child porn? Simply drowning them, despite its appeal, doesn’t always work. Lawyers, trials, appeals, delays, bribes. According to the documentary, in poor countries like the Philippines, the child’s parents are often the ones putting the kid in front of the camera, and they do it because the family has to eat. However one might regard this, putting mommy and daddy in the slam doesn’t do much for the kid and, since in much of the world there are many hungry families, the jailed would just be replaced by others.

So what to do?

A supply-side solution seems impossible in the face of an untraceable Dark Web containing lots of kid porn from many poor countries that can’t or won’t do much about it. That leaves demand side.

Some law-enforcement outfit came up with a convincing digital child, a brown little girl Philippine or Thai. She moved and talked realistically on a bogus porn site used as bait for pedophiles. If memory serves she got something like 25,000 responses in a day or two. In a big world, there are a lot of pedophiles. Pretty clearly, that many are not going to be prosecuted, especially since their identities and locations cannot be determined.

Now what?

An interesting question. If the objection to child pornagraphy is that it involves abuse of children, why should it be illegal to look at a digital, nonexistent child? Who is harmed?

If on the other hand the intention is to prevent viewing by the public of things many find abhorrent, would this not also justify banning, say, movies in which nonexistent people are shot, garroted, blown up, and tortured? In which evil-doers engage in terrorism, in the bombing of city streets?

The argument will be made that kid porn encourages the molestation of genuine children. Does it? Or does it allow those with pedophile inclinations to satisfy their urges through fantasy? This is the crucial question.

The answer is not obvious. When a captured molester is found to have pedophilic pornography in his home, a causal link is often assumed. But of course a pedophile would be likely to own such material. This hardly establishes that he was made a pedophile by its possession. Adolescent boys of my generation once read Playboy. Did the magazine cause our interest in girls, or did we get the magazine because we were already interested?

It may be that legal kid porn would absorb molestational energies and thus protect real children. Might it be worth while to find out?

We swim today in sexually uncharted waters. One may read of virtual-reality goggles that provide increasingly realistic sexual video. On this I am no authority but clearly this can provide an intriguing variety of partners of every color, shape, race, body style, and age (how do you check the age of a digital girl?) as well as personality and kink. Streaming concubines, digital Turkish harems, Asian fleshpots on demand, magically compliant and available to boys of fifteen and oldsters of ninety. This may have a future.

And of course a great many more women than will admit it go to porn sites on the web.

The complaint is made that men sometimes become so used to the variety and accessibility of such cyberseraglios that that they lose interest in real women. This is usually presented as symptomatic of some psychic inadequacy, but is it?

Dating is expensive in both time and money, involves serial break-ups and relationship talk. Careerists may not have time for dating. It can lead to marriage that, in an age of feminism and feminist judges, is not a bright idea. As men ask each other, Do you want to eat at the same restaurant every day?

(Parenthetically, there seems to be a substantial desire among men to circumvent the monopoly economy in sex now held, falteringly, by real women. Brothels report that growing numbers of men pop for sex robots, which improve rapidly. I think this is nuts, but I am just me. You can download different personalities. Realistic sex dolls enjoy brisk sales, or so I read.)

If digiporn causes at least some heterosexual men to avoid the disadvantages of the real thing, might not digital kid porn have an identical effect on pedophiles?

ORDER IT NOW

The question is worth asking. The costs to men of dating real women are relatively minor (unless they marry in which case child support, divorce, and so on can be burdensome). For the pedophile the costs of being caught are serious: many years in prison, loss of job, being put on watch lists. If penalties for possession of porn involving real children were extremely severe, and realistic digiporn both legal and available, the market for the real stuff might dry up considerably up. Perhaps a pedophile cannot control his interests, but he can control how he satisfies them.

And yet whether the approach would work probably doesn’t matter. Legalizing kid porn is not a winning political platform. Sexual exploitation of children is nauseating, and most people would probably see legalization as pandering to people they would rather throw from helicopters. But leaving things as they are will, well, leave things as they are, with wretchedly bad treatment of a lot of children. Anyone have a better idea?

(Republished from Fred on Everything by permission of author or representative)
 
• Category: Ideology • Tags: Censorship, Pedophilia, Pornography 
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  1. Rurik says:

    But leaving things as they are will, well, leave things as they are, with wretchedly bad treatment of a lot of children. Anyone have a better idea?

    birth control for the third world would be a great step towards preventing children in those regions from being so desperate and subject to depraved exploitation

    DNA mapping pedophiles for genetic, congenital predispositions (the British aristocracy for instance) and then screening for those traits at the zygote level for termination

    (there may be some potential future advantage for violent criminals in society, if a society ever requires a violent revolution for instance, but I can’t think of even one potential advantage of having pedophiles born and/or exist)

    give them strychnine-laced child ‘sex dolls’

    Or you could say it’s been made legal so long as they only use the dolls, and then they could select between eight year old boys or five year old girls, and then have them walk though the ‘brothel door’ and fall into a pit of ravenous crocodiles or pigs or something

    ~ just trying to help out here Fred

    provocative article. Thanks

    Read More
    • Replies: @Logan
    Most of the 3rd World, outside Africa, is already using birth control.

    Philippines, for instance, is at 2.94 Total Fertility Rate, down from 7+ in 1960. Thailand, not too far away, is at 1.50!

    2.1, of course, is replacement rate. Anything less leads to eventual decline in population.

    , @jtgw
    There is some evidence that our attempts to do good in the Third World even encourage this behavior. For example, in the 1990s it emerged that successful outside attempts to make Bangladesh outlaw child labor in factories led to an increase in child prostitution. If you're going to ban child labor, you also need to pony up the income to replace the lost earnings.

    I would venture that we need more free trade (not necessarily free migration, though). I don't know about our trade policy with the Philippines but I do know that e.g. US and EU agricultural trade restrictions are almost certainly responsible for a great deal of impoverishment in poor countries where agriculture forms a huge part of the economy.
    , @LauraMR
    The only solution is imprisonment. Pedophilia is a sexual orientation. There is no getting away from it.

    It should be noted that some pedophiles do not act on their orientation and, instead, embrace celibacy in the same manner as do those of other sexual orientations. There are, in fact, support organizations created by pedophiles that cater to those willing to commit to self-restraint. However, despite the "respectability" of the effort, the danger remains and it is beyond acceptable. Some form of imprisonment is required, even if in specialized centers akin to restrictive asylums.

    , @FKA Max


    birth control for the third world would be a great step towards preventing children in those regions from being so desperate and subject to depraved exploitation
     
    My thoughts exactly!

    “Saving the unborn”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bqlQuVGwk8

    Domtila has spent the past 25 years running a crisis pregnancy center in Nairobi, Kenya that has saved the lives of many babies. She is a mother of six and a supernumerary of Opus Dei

    Source: http://www.unz.com/emargolis/mission-creep-in-darkest-africa/#comment-2069173

    I just found out that Rick Santo[ru]m seems to have close ties to Opus Dei and Regnum Christi
    [...]
    Mr. Santorum has been a supporter of Regnum Christi, the lay wing of a conservative, cultish order of priests known as the Legion of Christ. In 2003, he was the keynote speaker at a Regnum Christi event in Chicago that drew protesters because the group’s charismatic founder, who had spent years denying that he had sexually abused seminarians, was scheduled to share the podium.
     
    - http://www.unz.com/article/pew-research-report-suggests-a-strategy-for-securing-gopgap/#comment-2069158

    Vows Of Silence -- Marcial Maciel, the Legion of Christ, and Regnum Christi

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHyhdaTQCS4

    Involvement of Rick Santorum and other conservative leaders with the Legionaries of Christ and Regnum Christi

    http://vowsofsilencefilm.com/news/santorum_legionaries.html

    The Vatican's Watergate: Follow The Money


    But in some ways, Maciel's most disturbing enabler was Mary Ann Glendon, Harvard Law Professor and former ambassador to the Vatican:

    [Glendon] taught at Regina Apostolorum Athenaeum, the Legion's university in Rome, and advised in the planning that led to the order's first university in America, University of Sacramento, Calif. In a 2002 letter for the Legion Web site she scoffed at the allegations against Maciel and praised his "radiant holiness" and "the success of Regnum Christi [the order's lay wing] and the Legionaries of Christ in advancing the New Evangelization."
     
    - https://www.theatlantic.com/daily-dish/archive/2010/04/the-vaticans-watergate-follow-the-money/188415/

    Mary Ann Glendon

    She is pro-life and "writes forcefully against the expansion of abortion rights." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Ann_Glendon

    Fr. Maciel, Pedophile, Psychopath and Legion of Christ Founder

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nP6XtNdG2Qs

    More information on the connection between pedophilia and psychopathy, here:

    Psychopathy in the Pedophile (From Psychopathy: Antisocial, Criminal, and Violent Behavior, P 304-320, 1998, Theodore Millon, Erik Simonsen, et al, eds.–See NCJ-179236) - http://www.unz.com/article/pizzagate/#comment-1673588

    Why Predators Are Attracted to Careers in the Clergy
    Some further insight into a serious phenomenon.
    Posted Apr 20, 2014

    https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/spycatcher/201404/why-predators-are-attracted-careers-in-the-clergy

    Former Priest reveals pedophiles in the Catholic Church and those who protect them

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHVhYXLNvlw

    Father Kevin Lee talks about why he chose to reveal the priests he knew were paedophiles or predatory homosexuals and why he left the priesthood after serving twenty years. He talks about his book, Unholy Silence - Covering Up the Sins of the Fathers and the difficulty he has had convincing Catholics that its still going on.

    Sacked priest Kevin Lee killed by typhoon

    http://www.smh.com.au/world/sacked-priest-kevin-lee-killed-by-typhoon-20131110-2xa4r.html

    Interesting take on this subject:

    Meet The Kakistocracy - Tjeerd Andringa on The Corbett Report

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbKjbWaLt6I

    Kakistocracy is defined as “rule by the worst.” Today on the program Dr. Tjeerd Andringa of the University of Groningen joins us to discuss his theory of how the kakistocracy uses child abuse to perpetuate their control, both over the victims of that abuse and its perpetrators. We also discuss what the vast majority of decent and moral people can do about this problem.
    , @Dissident

    DNA mapping pedophiles for genetic, congenital predispositions (the British aristocracy for instance) and then screening for those traits at the zygote level for termination
     
    Terminating zygotes merely for traits that suggest a predisposition toward-- what exactly? Merely finding erotic appeal in-- who, exactly? Pre-pubescent children*? Anyone below whatever the age-of-consent happens to be in a given jurisdiction? (Which, last I checked, can be anywhere from as young as 12 to as old as 21.)

    (*Sexual desire for adolescents who are clearly post-pubescent is, by definition, not pedophilia but hebephilia or ephebophilia. In common usage, however, the term 'pedophilia' is frequently used for both of the latter categories and 'pedophile' as a synonym for sexual predator or sex offender.)

    At any rate, the idea that it could ever be possible to screen for any such traits with a degree of accuracy that would be high enough to arguably justify such a practice sounds like little more than science fiction. Consider just how influential the formative childhood and adolescent years are on the development of just about every aspect of the human individual's psyche, emotional state and character. To suggest that the area of sexual orientation and proclivities is somehow an exception to this, that they are not at least as much a product of an individual's experience during said formative years as they are of any genetic factors, would hardly seem plausible or even reasonable.

    give them ["pedophiles"] strychnine-laced child ‘sex dolls’

    Or you could say it’s been made legal so long as they only use the dolls, and then they could select between eight year old boys or five year old girls, and then have them walk though the ‘brothel door’ and fall into a pit of ravenous crocodiles or pigs or something
     
    Even individuals for whom there was no evidence that they had ever or would ever harm any actual child? You want people to be tortured and killed merely for effectively masturbating with the aid of an inanimate object, simply because said inanimate object was made to resemble a child? Unsavory and repugnant as people may find such an act, where (assuming it is done discreetly and in a manner sufficiently hygienic so as to not to present a threat to public health) is the harm in it to society? Where is the crime?
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  2. One of the side effects of reading playboy at a young age is that you have no interest in underage women. I do not understand the appeal of kiddie porn.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
    but you are a normal person. pedophiles are not normal. so yea. there are alot of fetishes in the world, this is one of the oldest ones.
    , @guest
    Playboy almost certainly didn't condition you to enjoy sexually mature women. Most people aren't attracted children. (Unless they happen to look older than they are.)
    , @Truth

    One of the side effects of reading playboy at a young age is that you have no interest in underage women. I do not understand the appeal of kiddie porn.
     
    Sport, you just wrote a mouthful!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c91u6v200Ts
    , @Dissident

    One of the side effects of reading playboy at a young age is that you have no interest in underage women.
     
    Not even when you were underage yourself? At no point during your adolescence did you find yourself attracted to girls no older than you were at the time?

    That it is entirely normal and indeed extremely common for a boy, even from his early adolescence, to desire adult women seems fairly apparent. But for even a young adolescent boy to have no erotic interest in his female peers? Or even merely to pursue or at least fantasize about adult women to the exclusion of his female peers? How common is that?

    (Ah, for the days when a boy could reach his teens having been exposed to no worse than smut than Playboy. By the way, did you actually read that vaunted publication when you first discovered it? :) )

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  3. @flyingtiger
    One of the side effects of reading playboy at a young age is that you have no interest in underage women. I do not understand the appeal of kiddie porn.

    but you are a normal person. pedophiles are not normal. so yea. there are alot of fetishes in the world, this is one of the oldest ones.

    Read More
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  4. Then where will the starving 8-year-old’s parents market her? Because they’ll still be looking for buyers.

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  5. SMK says: • Website

    Sex crime laws in the U.S. are insane and execrable and hideously draconian. The U.S. is sui generis in its lunacy and hysteria over sex between adults and pubescent teenagers under statutory age. Women teachers who have love affairs and trysts with biological men under age 18 are punished more harshly than male criminals, including recidivists with histories of crime and violence beginning at age 13 or 14, convicted of aggravated assaults, muggings, armed robberies, gang-shootings, even murder. A woman in Nevada was just sentenced to life in prison for allegedly “forcing” a young man of 13 to touch her breast! The sentence was mandatory when she was convicted, by a jury, of this heinous and unspeakable crime. I could go on and on. I suggest you visit my website and read the articles and blog-posts.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason

    Women teachers who have love affairs and trysts with biological men under age 18 are punished more harshly... A woman in Nevada was just sentenced to life in prison for allegedly “forcing” a young man of 13 to touch her breast!
     
    These women teachers should keep their tits under cover, and they deserve to be punished for sheer stupidity.
    , @TWS
    Ok Humbert settle down and quit huffing.
    , @Truth

    A woman in Nevada was just sentenced to life in prison for allegedly “forcing” a young man of 13 to touch her breast!
     
    I would doubt this happenned.
    , @notanon

    A woman in Nevada was just sentenced to life in prison for allegedly “forcing” a young man of 13 to touch her breast!
     
    in loco parentis
    , @Jon Orton
    The Nevada case you mentioned happened nearly 10 years ago. You might be interested in some of the legal comments from the story which was published in political forum
    http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/woman-gets-life-sentence-for-13-year-old-touching-her-breasts.307982/

    Whilst your concern about the apparently draconian nature of the sentence is understandable, you might care to read the comments by 'bowspearer' in particular to realise why the sentence was decided as it was.

    For all that, it's a dreadful shame that a once attractive woman threw her life away over the matter. http://www.coyote-tv.com/2014/03/28/nv-supremes-mum-on-jackpot-molester-life-sentence-appeal/

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  6. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    I don’t find this absurd at all, but the challenge lies in making it politically palatable.

    I’d conjoin it with two other thrusts.

    First, I’d focus much greater attention on the dangers to porn “users” of ALL pornography. Even the most seemingly innocuous “porn” becomes morally corrosive due to the role it plays in actual life.

    Second, I would legalize the viewing and possession of ALL pornography, even the most vile. The prime reason for this is that it would allow freelancers to track down the producers of the most vile stuff. I suspect that a good swath of genuine “child porn” producers could be caught if the internet were set loose on them.

    I suspect that one of the reasons “child porn” laws are so harsh is that some of the people in charge are protecting themselves against vigilantes. (I’m somewhat sympathetic to “Pizzagate” and it is perfectly clear that people investigating this are inhibited by the laws. It should not be illegal to seek evidence showing that children are being abused.)

    I suspect if viewing “child porn” were legal, the vast majority of those viewing it would be people seeking to track down and capture those who are abusing children. Even those promulgating it would likely be at greater danger of exposure.

    Production of illegal porn, whether by abuse of children, abuse of adults, non-consensual videos, etc, should still be illegal. I’m not certain where to draw the line on promotion and promulgation.

    One criticism of this approach would be that it would then be perfectly legal to collect topless “selfies” posted by 14-year-old girls. But I view this as a moral, not a legal issue. Parents should teach their daughters not to do this, and they should learn not to do this, and men should learn that spending time on such things is the path to moral corruption.

    Porn in general is a hard problem, and I think current approaches don’t work. Unfortunately there is very little public space available for discussion and debate on this.

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  7. guest says:
    @flyingtiger
    One of the side effects of reading playboy at a young age is that you have no interest in underage women. I do not understand the appeal of kiddie porn.

    Playboy almost certainly didn’t condition you to enjoy sexually mature women. Most people aren’t attracted children. (Unless they happen to look older than they are.)

    Read More
    • Replies: @flyingtiger
    That is true. You saw very few women over the age of 30 in the bunny mag.
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  8. notanon says:

    personally i’d just shoot them but looking beyond that…

    genetics – say the basis of male hetero attraction is fertility cues and for simplicity say the two main ones are
    1) youth
    2) waist-hip ratio
    and when genes for being attracted to these are working right they combine to find early 20s the most attractive then what might happen if (2) was defective?

    seems to me there might be genes involved which could maybe be CRISPRed into working right.

    Read More
    • Replies: @ThreeCranes
    Like you I take a biological tack in looking at this thing. Why is sex with underage children bad? Why do we condemn it?

    My answer is that for one thing, children don't smell like adults do. From biology we know that scent is integral to sexual arousal. Anyone who has owned a dog knows that receptive females emit odors that bring every male within miles to the back door.

    Now, biologists have assured us that the role of scent in human sexuality is less important than it is in most mammals. Instead, as you point out with the waist-hip ratio observation, visual cues play an important part. (Incidentally, this is why we have today so many misunderstandings and accusations of harassment by women against men. Women show their wares and men respond. But women insist that such display wasn't meant to arouse a male. "Well then, what was it for?" the guy asks in exasperation.)

    But back to kids. They are inappropriate objects of sexual fantasies for the very simple reason that they (are not adults, but that is circular and gets us nowhere) are not equipped to deal with sex at their age. And this is proven by the fact that they emit no scent that arouses the male. They smell like kids smell. They are Innocent.

    No male should get aroused by a kid because they don't smell like a 20 year old woman. That's the bare minimum we can say. That they don't smell like an adult means that nature has not yet prepared them to deal with sex. Period.

    I don't care what the biologists say; scent is part of human sex. Tell me you were not aroused when you nuzzled your girlfriend's neck behind her ear and breathed in her scent, the scent of a woman. And so on.

    So setting moralizing aside, even if we just take our cues from biology and follow our noses, sex with immature persons is wrong.

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  9. Surely there was child pornography made 100 years ago. If images of people now dead will satisfy the urge so that no new children are harmed, would that be a fair trade Off?

    Whatever it takes to stop harming more new children.

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  10. Lisa says:

    . Re the British aristocracy. I have heard that the private boarding schools they send their boys to are ghastly places, renowned for producing lifelong sexual deviants. It is not necessarily the schools themselves in all cases, but more a case of being away from family and knowing every minute of your life that your parents stuck you there because they didn’t wish to be bothered by your sustained presence, much less actually raising you. Prince Charles is a good example of what they crank out. As is the late (not late enough) Lord Mountbatten who, it is said, acted as procurer for Charles.

    Read More
    • Replies: @secretaryns
    I recently read C.S. Lewis's autobiography, which is not one of his more popular titles among his conservative-type audience, and I now see why. He casually mentions the very atmosphere you describe in English boarding schools, with rampant homosexual conduct. Though he himself says with some gratitude that that was not one of his particular temptations.

    Conditioned as we are to believe what the media tells us about sexual deviance, it's still surprising when their narratives are punctured... even when we know they're utterly full of shit.
    , @Rhett Hardwick
    "English Boarding Schools" it has always seemed to me that the British Empire rested on pedophiles,. Cecil Rhodes. Chinese Gordon and Florence of Arabia come immediately to mind. There are many others in the dark corners of my memory.
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  11. It tends to come from poor countries where children g easily exploited. In the bush world, corruption, official inattention, and lack of resources mean that nothing much will be done ….

    Same could be said of the Bush world … both of them.

    “Legalizing kid porn is not a winning political platform. “

    It is in the EU: The EC is pushing hard to lower the age of consent to 13. Is it a coincidence that Brussels was the center of a major paedo ring?

    It can lead to marriage that, in an age of feminism and feminist judges, is not a bright idea.

    Not all marriages end in failure, and not all women are rabid feminists.

    As men ask each other, Do you want to eat at the same restaurant every day?

    Call me boring, but if the food is good and served with love, why not?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Logan
    The EC is pushing hard to lower the age of consent to 13.

    Interesting little-known history here. Until the late 19th century, US laws for age of consent were very different. Most states had AoC of 12, with quite a few at 10. These were a holdover from English common law.

    Learned this from a TV show set in NYC during the Civil War, which focused part of its storyline on a legal brothel employing girls as young as 12. Didn't sound right, so I looked it up and found that it was indeed true.

    Had to stop watching the show, as it started dwelling to an unhealthy extent on the brothel storyline. Ewww.
    , @Anon
    Thanks for the sanity. As to age of consent, yes in olden times age of consent was 12, but people were old at 30, if they arrived. And in Christian countries, women were afforded the protection of matrimony. (Mater + onus. The burden of maternity was shared).

    Now children mature much later, the desired lowering of age of consent in developed countries obviously has exploitative aims, and the target is not only girls, but boys. Homosexual pederasts are in power ( ephebophiles, distinct from pedophiles, they confuse terms on purpose). It seems we cannot see corruption when it is staring us straight in the face. We have even lost the vocabulary to name it.

    Marriage can be a community of life between a man and a woman, with the joy of transmission of life included, for those with the sanity to appreciate it. Not that everybody will, but it is their loss.

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  12. Brabantian says: • Website

    It may be much easier to shut down paedophile access than suggested above. This is one of the big points made by 33-year-old Andrew Anglin, proprietor of the ‘Daily Stormer’, shut down repeatedly from ordinary web addresses, & forced to use the Tor browser in between, which Anglin calls the ‘paedo-web’. (The Daily Stormer can usually be accessed via a Web-2-Tor link of the kind pioneered by the late ‘suicided’ Aaron Swartz:)

    https://dstormer6em3i4km.onion.link/

    The Tor browser people openly discussed modifying the Tor programme to ban Anglin & the Stormer … but Tor’s board seems to have been shamed by Anglin’s big point that this threat, proves to the world that the Tor designers – connected to USA intelligence agencies – have intentionally created the major Dark Web tool for use by paedophiles … they quite avoid blocking paedophiles from Tor even tho they could easily install tools to repress the paedophile links which thrive on Tor … neo-Nazis bad, but paedophiles OK for the Tor people? Andrew Anglin writes:

    The Tor Project is primarily run by Jewish paedophiles who have created a huge networking platform for child pornography & slave trafficking while hiding behind some gobbledygook about Chinese political dissidents who can easily just use a normal VPN & host their site on any western server.” [VPN - Virtual Private Network, tool hiding your actual internet 'IP' address]

    The Darkweb [accessible through Tor] is mainly used by paedophiles to share child pornography. … The Tor project claims to be designed for Chinese political dissidents – or whatever – but the main use of the software has been for child porn, & it is not believable that this amount of resources would be expended on some shite for Chinese political dissidents who can just buy a normal VPN if they need it. Slave traffickers, terrorists, assassins & drug dealers also use the Tor service … The Tor development team had never given comment on paedophiles or anyone else using the service, but felt the need to come out & condemn the [neo-Nazi] Daily Stormer [after the Daily Stormer was forced to host via Tor]

    Indeed the ‘China dissident’ pretext for Tor seems fake … Governments can easily & simply block usage of Tor, it seems, as China & Iran apparently do … Plus it is easy for any government / internet provider to see if you have downloaded Tor, even if they couldn’t tell where you go using it.

    The Tor browser was developed by United States Naval Research Laboratory employees working for the US government, & is suspected of having back doors to help US gov identify any users … including all the Tor-using paedophiles, who may be mostly known to the USA security services.

    And Tor does seem rather Jewish. One former Tor top figure, Jacob Appelbaum, left Tor amidst large public sexual abuse scandals. Here, a link to a photo of Jewish Tor board members with large Jewish synagogue ceremonial Torah scroll

    Notably, the Tor browser with its child-rape-friendly profile, is madly supported by the fake ‘dissidents’ whom all major governments know are hoaxers, ‘Edward Snowden’, & ‘not-really-living-at-the-Ecuador-embassy’ Julian Assange, who have left a trail of real dissidents jailed or dead after trusting these fake ‘leakers’ & their media pumpers like Glenn Greenwald (jailed: Reality Leigh Winner, Lauri Love; dead: Seth Rich, Peter W Smith).

    Wikileaks insists on TOR to receive ‘leaks’, of course, after which you may be dead once Assange tells his US paymasters all about you. In the case of Peter W Smith, Assange denied receiving the transmitted Smith leaks once Smith became a corpse.

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  13. Logan says:
    @Rurik

    But leaving things as they are will, well, leave things as they are, with wretchedly bad treatment of a lot of children. Anyone have a better idea?
     
    birth control for the third world would be a great step towards preventing children in those regions from being so desperate and subject to depraved exploitation

    DNA mapping pedophiles for genetic, congenital predispositions (the British aristocracy for instance) and then screening for those traits at the zygote level for termination

    (there may be some potential future advantage for violent criminals in society, if a society ever requires a violent revolution for instance, but I can't think of even one potential advantage of having pedophiles born and/or exist)

    give them strychnine-laced child 'sex dolls'

    Or you could say it's been made legal so long as they only use the dolls, and then they could select between eight year old boys or five year old girls, and then have them walk though the 'brothel door' and fall into a pit of ravenous crocodiles or pigs or something

    ~ just trying to help out here Fred

    provocative article. Thanks

    Most of the 3rd World, outside Africa, is already using birth control.

    Philippines, for instance, is at 2.94 Total Fertility Rate, down from 7+ in 1960. Thailand, not too far away, is at 1.50!

    2.1, of course, is replacement rate. Anything less leads to eventual decline in population.

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    • Replies: @Anon
    With 7.44 billion people on the planet, we can decline for 200 years and still be straining the planet's resources. Population decline is not a worry. Besides, it tends to fix itself eventually. When you had vast empty continents like the US in the 1600s, the settlers could have 10 kids per family without a problem. Realistically speaking, we need to get our numbers down to have a better-run and more livable planet.
    , @Wally
    said:
    "Most of the 3rd World, outside Africa, is already using birth control."

    I get it, let's just ignore the worst of the worst, the dumbest of the dumbest, Africa.
    , @notanon

    Most of the 3rd World, outside Africa, is already using birth control.
     
    right - so apart from Africa we only have to deal with the tsunami of people created by the post-war population boom due to cleaner water, better diet and medical care - and the ever reducing need for the current number of people caused by improving technology.

    we'd be going backwards because of that even if pop. growth was zero everywhere.
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  14. Greg Bacon says: • Website

    Since part of this toxic problem is over population, where parents pimp out a child so they can feed the rest, then it’s time for those responsible to step up and help stop this downward spiral, like the Vatican.

    Even though its filled with misogynists and homosexuals, the Vatican has been able to dictate to Christian women for century’s that they must NOT use birth control of any kind, since that is a mortal sin. Whereas with all the homosexual activity in that hot bed of corruption, with cardinals and bishops hopping in bed with male prostitutes must only be a venial sin–Yes, I’m a recovering Catholic.

    So time to strip the Vatican of some of that loot they’ve looted over the centuries to help pay not only for food for the Catholic poor, but also for birth control to be sanctified and no longer a sin, since if there is a God, then I’m guessing he/she/it would tend to view the use of birth control in a much less harsh light than letting kids starve to death and perform in kiddie porn pics.

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    • Agree: Rurik
    • Replies: @Ris_Eruwaedhiel
    The real argument is that you're born when God wants you to be born and die when God wants you to do. So, birth control is "wrong" because it circumvents God's will. The Duggars with their 20 kids are adhering to this belief.

    In the real world, almost any family, outside of the rich, who adhered to this belief would wallow in poverty and end up with kids dead from malnutrition or disease. But that's God's will, so it's okay.

    Same argument against suicide and euthanasia.
    , @ken
    Homo activity is a mortal sin in the Catholic Church.

    I love this imaginary world where poor brown Catholics refuse to use contraception because, ya know, church rules. But then the same indoctrinated fool ignores all other aspects of Christian life and pimps out his underage children. You can't have it both ways unless you are the same old anti-Catholic bigot. And always a more enlightened former Catholic to boot.
    , @TWS
    Yeah so it's allow people to enslave and rape kids or let them starve. Why am I not seeing another path that doesn't rely on pimping kids or starving them? Try thinking outside the child rapist box.
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  15. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    So what to do?

    Most child pornography doesn’t seem to have a dimension warranting legal intervention. A good portion of it is self produced masturbation videos where a child displays their sexuality to others. Another slice of the pie is nude and non-nude modeling which is also volitional and pays money. Then there is child sex in which the child is normally either an active participant, or relaxed and passive. We’re left with a sliver of content in which the child is distressed and experiencing harm.

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    • Disagree: Logan
    • Replies: @German_reader

    Then there is child sex in which the child is normally either an active participant, or relaxed and passive.
     
    You're a sick piece of shit, appalling that people like you are even allowed to exist.
    , @TWS
    Yeah, we forgot to add hang people who make excuses for kiddie fiddlers.
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  16. @Greg Bacon
    Since part of this toxic problem is over population, where parents pimp out a child so they can feed the rest, then it's time for those responsible to step up and help stop this downward spiral, like the Vatican.

    Even though its filled with misogynists and homosexuals, the Vatican has been able to dictate to Christian women for century's that they must NOT use birth control of any kind, since that is a mortal sin. Whereas with all the homosexual activity in that hot bed of corruption, with cardinals and bishops hopping in bed with male prostitutes must only be a venial sin--Yes, I'm a recovering Catholic.

    So time to strip the Vatican of some of that loot they've looted over the centuries to help pay not only for food for the Catholic poor, but also for birth control to be sanctified and no longer a sin, since if there is a God, then I'm guessing he/she/it would tend to view the use of birth control in a much less harsh light than letting kids starve to death and perform in kiddie porn pics.

    The real argument is that you’re born when God wants you to be born and die when God wants you to do. So, birth control is “wrong” because it circumvents God’s will. The Duggars with their 20 kids are adhering to this belief.

    In the real world, almost any family, outside of the rich, who adhered to this belief would wallow in poverty and end up with kids dead from malnutrition or disease. But that’s God’s will, so it’s okay.

    Same argument against suicide and euthanasia.

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    • Replies: @JSM
    The real argument is that you’re born when God wants you to be born and die when God wants you to do. So, birth control is “wrong” because it circumvents God’s will.

    While I can agree that abortion, the murder accusation holds water, barrier methods of birth control are not different than abstention. If abstention is ok, so are barrier methods. Preventing egg and sperm meeting is and always has been ethical.
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  17. I read an article a few years back about children sold into prostitution in SE Asia. Being forced to act in front of cameras pales in comparison, but both pale before starvation or maiming children so that they will be more effective as beggars. There is a lot of very ugly shit that goes on in this world.

    If a rich man buys a child who is being sold into prostitution and raises her as a concubine instead of her going into a brothel did he harm her? From what I have read, it goes on.

    If you’ve ever encountered a woman who was molested as a child you can learn at least two things. 1) It really fcuks them up, and 2) the human mind adapts and defends itself in all sorts of weird ways to enable people to keep going.

    Like so much in human behavior, I imagine that there are some pedophiles who are diverted by porn and some who are recruited into deeper acts. We are nowhere near to sorting that out.

    The idea of just killing any that are caught acting out with children has its appeal, but, as Fred notes, if the child is emotionally attached to the perp it gets complicated. Criminalizing thought is a non-starter.

    Other than nuking the planet from orbit, there is no way to be sure.

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  18. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    The digital alternative may be an outlet for otherwise dangerous impulses. Like video war games giving an outlet to violent impulses. My impression is that movies and games have not caused an uptick in overall violence. In fact, it has gone down.

    It would be better for these people to spend their time looking at realistic cartoons rather than something real.

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  19. @Anonymous
    So what to do?

    Most child pornography doesn't seem to have a dimension warranting legal intervention. A good portion of it is self produced masturbation videos where a child displays their sexuality to others. Another slice of the pie is nude and non-nude modeling which is also volitional and pays money. Then there is child sex in which the child is normally either an active participant, or relaxed and passive. We're left with a sliver of content in which the child is distressed and experiencing harm.

    Then there is child sex in which the child is normally either an active participant, or relaxed and passive.

    You’re a sick piece of shit, appalling that people like you are even allowed to exist.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    In 1954, 30-35% of 1800 polled Californian college students reported having experienced sex with an adult as a child (Landis). Furthermore, Rind's meta-study into the personal outcomes of participants of child sex has repeatedly been replicated by various authors. The conclusion is consistently that perceptions of child-adult sex are not realistic and that harm is not pervasive.

    My view is that these sexual relationships were somewhat common but not talked about before the 1980s, which is the point in history when academic feminism and child protection became the dominant voice in the discourse of child sexuality . At this time satanic panic took hold, and visible friendships and states of attachment between extrafamilial adults and children became unacceptable.

    Children cannot learn advanced manners and ways of communicating, nor expand their world concept in the cold reptile farm known as the classroom. These things take a real relationship with an adult, whether a devoted parent, or a friend the child has discovered on their own. No wonder each generation seem coarsened.
    , @Anonymous
    I would have been an active participant if I'd had the opportunity to engage in sex even well before I reached the age of consent . I certainly thought about and desired sex well before I actually reached legal age. A person below the age of majority is not necessarily devoid of agency . Does that make me a monster , or can you concede that sexuality does not always track perfectly with the highly variable age of consent in a given jurisdiction ?
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  20. You’re focusing more on convincing normies to accept the idea that pedos looking at cartoon/digital child porn might be a solution. Maybe, but probably not. I don’t think there has ever been a single occurrence throughout modern history where enabling a group of people engaging in bad behavior led to a better outcome.

    But if you’re still committed, I think you should focus more on the more difficult part of that equation: Convincing pedos to abandon authentic child porn and view digital child porn only.

    Still, it’s just so much easier to lecture normies on this stuff (and hang yourself on a cross in the article title) than to go to the source with your suggestion. Perhaps submit an article on the NAMBLA website, lecturing on the win/win of fake child porn, see how far that gets you.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    "I don’t think there has ever been a single occurrence throughout modern history where enabling a group of people engaging in bad behavior led to a better outcome."

    So far as I grasp things, actual rape has decreased since internet porn became widely available. I'm talking about stranger rape.

    I think it makes sense in general that bad things should decrease if people are given the option of doing less bad things.
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  21. Logan says:

    Not a terrible suggestion, if you assume that morality consists entirely of avoiding physical harm to others.

    As the great Jonathan Haidt has, IMO, demonstrated, morality is, or should be, much more than this. Some things are wrong because they violate our moral foundations of sanctity or purity, not because anybody is directly harmed thereby.

    Allowing legal “fake kid porn” would woefully lower the general morality of our society. Which has many negative side effects, not all directly associated.

    This must, of course, be weighed against the potential for legalization of this stuff to actually reduce real harm to real children. Which has not been demonstrated, BTW. Possibly legalization would be “gateway porn” to the real stuff. It does seem pretty clear that users become jaded to porn and tend to require more intense stuff to get the same effect. Which would tend to lead users of fake stuff to lean towards the real thing.

    Off-topic: A few years ago a local guy got caught with kiddie-porn on his computer. His defense was that his cat had accidentally downloaded it by walking on the keyboard while he was asleep. To which my wife asked if perhaps the feline had thought it was actually kitty-porn.

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  22. sexual fetishes are almost always the result of the person being interfered with as a child, this is sometimes almost innocuous accidental interference sometimes brutal. There is no absolute certainty about which person will survive somewhat in tact and who will be destroyed totally, sometimes those with the worst stories come out the least damaged. What makes the difference is usually how a person choses to deal with the interference.Unfortunately its usually a little child making this decision subconsciously alone and continuing the choice in secret shame into adulthood. Most often the person incorporates the experience into their burgeoning sexuality, commonly the re abuse themselves in fantasy and then re shame themselves for that afterwards.Its seldom that they can even reach a point where they can even simply see this for what it is and at least accept their damage and stop the self hate.Like other people who become hooked on fetishes this process develops slowly building on itself, riffing on itself and needing increasingly to outdo itself.Its progressive. One form of progression as De Sade wrote about in himself is to switch from the abused to the abuser,To project the reabuse onto another and experience your pain in their eyes. This may happen because as they age their own pain memory recedes but their sexual addiction to the fetish grows.

    This means that Obviously identifying these victims and helping them process the trauma while they are young enough to not resist therapy is the best way to cut short the supply of new abusers.

    It means that assisting them with the process of progressing their fantasies is not helpful, in fact whats needed is assisting them in recognizing that although they were victimized as children and in a sense that led to a progression they had little chance of fully overcoming, in another sense everything they did with that experience since is to some extent their responsibility, certainly that as adults and now informed adults. Obviously this is going to be less successful the farther the process has progressed, adolescents and teens are the best targets to be made aware that incorporating their trauma into their sexulity will both warp exacerbate their problem and make normal sex lives
    increasingly unlikely.

    The public should be given tools strategies etc to root out and destroy those who persist, of course this cant be official but it can and ought to be unofficial. We need to stop prosecuting vigilantis more vigorously than the criminals. I have read of at least one group of ex victims in britain who have put together an organization to entrap pedos and turn them over to police.Every effort should be made to make exacerbating your trauma really high risk so the process is slowed as much as possible.And of course so as few new victims are attacked.

    Its been clear forever the vast vast vast majority of the people ant pedophiles tortured to death as slowly as possible. And yet our dear leaders are so inept at finding prosecuting an imprisoning forever these animals that one really has to wonder if they are involved. At their very least a person convicted of sexually assaulting a child even a 17 year old no matter how minor the assault should never ever see the light of day again, death penalty would be better, almost all of the worst offences are people that were let off lightly earlier. This is a crime always done in utmost secrecy one has to assume these monsters are creating dozens before they are stopped. stopping them permanently as soon as they emerge is the only sane policy as is signalling to all those victims about to turn monsters that they are playing with their lives.

    The police should be given freedom to set whatever traps work, using existing porn on their own trapsites creating virtual porn, whatever, using our superior computer power to overwhelm, we should make the dark net a mine field of of traps almost certain to eventually snare those who use it.

    It is in the interest of the people and therefore state that people emerge from childhood with healthy sexual orientations and procreate new citizens in healthily sustainable sexual relationships. Pornography is bad it begins a process often in adolescence of addiction to increasingly unhealthy sexual fetishes, it is in essence the universal most prevalent form of child sexual abuse, it does of course sometime not infect a person until they have developed fairly healthy orientations and can then be much less destructive, but lets not kid ourselves its never constructive. No one needs weaponized pornagraphy to rub one out in the rare cases where one is so unfit for relationships sources for more healthy fantasies abound and our antennas adjust and a mere glimpse of ankle will do.

    This typical liberal argument that because with one retarded liberal innovation that had unintended consequences or consequences liberals wish to pretend were unintended we should now implement or accept another retarded liberal innovation as a fix, is well evil and liberals too should be given the death penalty (but that’s another talk) In the meantime liberal causes will have to be used to take out porn.

    Obviously long term, feminism must be destroyed and women re oriented to submission to the men, and a bitch in every betas bed model reinstituted. Unlike cultivated sexual perversions until the genetic causes of homosexuality is discovered and eradicated, they must be dealt with as they once were. Basically if they can keep it between consenting adults and not be caught they will be left alone but the minute they force us to confront their aberration, either by deliberate campaign or deviating from the confines or merely getting caught then we must demonstrate to the people that we do not tolerate deviance.Make no mistake homosexuals are as often not genetic homos but rather victims of abuse acting out and homosexual culture is a putrid bed of deviant culture, the only argument for not simply stoning them is it seems to be as much as 3% and many can be quite productive otherwise if they can be managed. eventually science will solve this defect.

    What the human and probably animal psyche can do when its riffs on its sexual instincts along with its experience and other instincts is infinite in variety and obviously there is no clear line where healthy starts and unhealthy begins. art can explore this as it always has. whats changed is until recently art has at least tried to discern where this line was in the cases it explores current jew art does the opposite its almost entirely a movement to encourage as much deviancy as possible and make the case that health sexuality is unhealthy deviancy, you just cant exaggerate this point.Obviously we are at the point where we need to start executing artists I think we should do this in artistic ways have ironic and satiric executions, perhaps tableau an performance executions. There is plenty of material within normal male dominant female submissive animal sexuality to work with, the pitfalls of falling into unhealthy obsessions are certainly worth exploring as long as they are clearly not championing but rather deconstructing their evil.

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  23. Logan says:
    @The Alarmist

    It tends to come from poor countries where children g easily exploited. In the bush world, corruption, official inattention, and lack of resources mean that nothing much will be done ....
     
    Same could be said of the Bush world ... both of them.

    "Legalizing kid porn is not a winning political platform. "
     
    It is in the EU: The EC is pushing hard to lower the age of consent to 13. Is it a coincidence that Brussels was the center of a major paedo ring?

    It can lead to marriage that, in an age of feminism and feminist judges, is not a bright idea.
     
    Not all marriages end in failure, and not all women are rabid feminists.

    As men ask each other, Do you want to eat at the same restaurant every day?
     
    Call me boring, but if the food is good and served with love, why not?

    The EC is pushing hard to lower the age of consent to 13.

    Interesting little-known history here. Until the late 19th century, US laws for age of consent were very different. Most states had AoC of 12, with quite a few at 10. These were a holdover from English common law.

    Learned this from a TV show set in NYC during the Civil War, which focused part of its storyline on a legal brothel employing girls as young as 12. Didn’t sound right, so I looked it up and found that it was indeed true.

    Had to stop watching the show, as it started dwelling to an unhealthy extent on the brothel storyline. Ewww.

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  24. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    Dear God, what a comments section.

    I think the UR has gotten way more sensationalistic lately. New authors, and a low-rated one is out, but especially the headlines. Top off my head, it started with Giraldi’s “American Jews are driving America’s wars”. Though journalistically valid, with same text and another title, he wouldn’t have got fired. Then the super Mao-Weinsten pieces, now this.

    I suppose traffic must be increasing, I see quite a lot of new commenters, which is OK because we commenters are often repetitive or have narrow interests. But the quality of comments cannot benefit if headlines “grab” us emotionally. Recently, more stupid jokes, and interminable spats, and how many pictures are really worth a thousand words?

    I vote for a middle-of-the-road editorial headline policy. Mr. Unz?

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    • Replies: @Rurik

    I vote for
     
    what a pathetic joke

    you've not only contributed nothing to the conversation, you've done so behind the cowardly cloak of 'Anon'

    some pictures are indeed worth a thousand words (like the one with our sniveling congress gushing over Bibi, hectoring our president from our own capital. That one is a doozy! ; )

    I suspect that Mr. Unz doesn't want his site to be a dry and hoary crypt of doddering academic highbrow. At least not exclusively.

    It lightens things up and opens the mental pathways to refreshing diversions for the discussions to follow questions of ethics and current news, events, ect.. I would posit.

    Humbly. As Ron tolerates some of our occasional transgressions of decorum. ;)
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  25. anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Porn has been with us “since time runneth not to the contrary.” And it always will be. All I ask is that if it’s going to be available on the Internet, that the customer should have to pay for it. Free porn is fertile ground for young kids with prying eyes and no money.

    And speaking of young kids. No kiddie porn!! Not now, not ever!

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  26. @notanon
    personally i'd just shoot them but looking beyond that...

    genetics - say the basis of male hetero attraction is fertility cues and for simplicity say the two main ones are
    1) youth
    2) waist-hip ratio
    and when genes for being attracted to these are working right they combine to find early 20s the most attractive then what might happen if (2) was defective?

    seems to me there might be genes involved which could maybe be CRISPRed into working right.

    Like you I take a biological tack in looking at this thing. Why is sex with underage children bad? Why do we condemn it?

    My answer is that for one thing, children don’t smell like adults do. From biology we know that scent is integral to sexual arousal. Anyone who has owned a dog knows that receptive females emit odors that bring every male within miles to the back door.

    Now, biologists have assured us that the role of scent in human sexuality is less important than it is in most mammals. Instead, as you point out with the waist-hip ratio observation, visual cues play an important part. (Incidentally, this is why we have today so many misunderstandings and accusations of harassment by women against men. Women show their wares and men respond. But women insist that such display wasn’t meant to arouse a male. “Well then, what was it for?” the guy asks in exasperation.)

    But back to kids. They are inappropriate objects of sexual fantasies for the very simple reason that they (are not adults, but that is circular and gets us nowhere) are not equipped to deal with sex at their age. And this is proven by the fact that they emit no scent that arouses the male. They smell like kids smell. They are Innocent.

    No male should get aroused by a kid because they don’t smell like a 20 year old woman. That’s the bare minimum we can say. That they don’t smell like an adult means that nature has not yet prepared them to deal with sex. Period.

    I don’t care what the biologists say; scent is part of human sex. Tell me you were not aroused when you nuzzled your girlfriend’s neck behind her ear and breathed in her scent, the scent of a woman. And so on.

    So setting moralizing aside, even if we just take our cues from biology and follow our noses, sex with immature persons is wrong.

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    • Replies: @Logan
    No male should get aroused by a kid because they don’t smell like a 20 year old woman.

    Doing good till this sentence.

    The scent thing happens at puberty, which is getting younger and younger. A 13 year old girl who is past puberty is from a physical standpoint fully a woman.

    Our prohibitions on sex before 16 or 18 or whatever, which which I agree, BTW, are based on social conventions, not anything to do with physical or medical reality.
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  27. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @German_reader

    Then there is child sex in which the child is normally either an active participant, or relaxed and passive.
     
    You're a sick piece of shit, appalling that people like you are even allowed to exist.

    In 1954, 30-35% of 1800 polled Californian college students reported having experienced sex with an adult as a child (Landis). Furthermore, Rind’s meta-study into the personal outcomes of participants of child sex has repeatedly been replicated by various authors. The conclusion is consistently that perceptions of child-adult sex are not realistic and that harm is not pervasive.

    My view is that these sexual relationships were somewhat common but not talked about before the 1980s, which is the point in history when academic feminism and child protection became the dominant voice in the discourse of child sexuality . At this time satanic panic took hold, and visible friendships and states of attachment between extrafamilial adults and children became unacceptable.

    Children cannot learn advanced manners and ways of communicating, nor expand their world concept in the cold reptile farm known as the classroom. These things take a real relationship with an adult, whether a devoted parent, or a friend the child has discovered on their own. No wonder each generation seem coarsened.

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    • Replies: @another fred
    I'm not sure I want to touch this conversation with a "barge pole", but I will comment that psychologists observe that the greatest damage is often done by the way that parents react with shaming and denial when a child has been molested by another family member or acquaintance. Victims, especially the less intelligent or otherwise more vulnerable, have a hard time dealing with the fact that something forbidden and shameful was accompanied by pleasurable sensations and arousal.

    Not to make excuses for offenders, but not all the harm is done directly by their actions.
    , @ThreeCranes
    Thank you for your perceptive comment "visible friendships and states of attachment between extrafamilial adults and children became unacceptable".

    This is immensely true. As an adult male I must be continually on my guard against any suggestion that my dealings with say, a random child passing in front of my home on the street or even a child with his mother, are anything but above board and beyond suspicion. Men are walking in a literal minefield these days.

    This is sad. When I was a boy, my neighbor, a fine old Jewish man, used to walk around our neighborhood. Our paths would cross as I rode my bike hither, thither and yon. Invariably he would stop me and call me over. "Have I ever showed you my muscle?" he would ask. Then he would roll up his sleeve and flex his bicep. He'd been a farmer in his earlier days (there were photos of mule teams made up of 12 mules on his wall) and he had kept himself in great shape, like a lot of men did in those days. He had really strong arms, a powerful bicep. Then he'd chuckle, haul out his coin purse (that old kind you squeezed together to open) and give me two dimes because he knew that a kid couldn't get enough candy to power his dynamo. And then he'd send me on my way.

    Part of the reason he liked me, I think, is because he'd seen me from his window, as a little shaver, riding my stick horse (anyone remember them?) around our house, shooting bad guys, climbing trees etc. But I believe he was also buying some insurance. My sister often played dominoes with his wife. There were lots of kids around. By striking up friendship with us, this old couple insured that there were some kids in the neighborhood who would prevent others from vandalizing their property and so on.

    But anyway, there was no suggestion of impropriety involved. It was perfectly natural for a neighbor man to befriend a kid on the street. That was part of the community. Today, my wife doesn't understand when I tell her that she can deal with kids in a way that no man is allowed to.

    In fact, I'm even reluctant to publish this comment so afraid am I of having my (or my neighbor's) intentions misinterpreted. It's as though, formerly, when lines between what was socially acceptable and what was not were clear cut and specified, we had more freedom to interact, to be free. Now that lines between genders, determinations of what is acceptable behavior etc. have become blurred, we are actually less free, our intentions are always suspect. Is this not ironic? The unintended consequences of Liberal "good intentions"? The Hegelian "antithesis hidden within the thesis" of so-called "tolerance"? Liberal "tolerance" of everything puts everything under a cloud of suspicion.

    Formerly, rectitude and propriety were prima facie evidence of good intentions. Today, since liberals don't acknowledge the claim to higher morality implicit in propriety, since everything is mere arbitrary sign which has no inherent significance, since all cultural markers are nothing but easily picked-up and readily modified cultural habits, nothing can be taken as evidence of good character and good intentions. Everyone and everything is under suspicion.

    Camus pointed this out in his essay on the Marquis de Sade in his book "The Rebel". When, as advocated by de Sade, licentiousness is given free rein, the paradoxical result is murder. It is a society of all against all, each separated by suspicion as people gave in to the insatiable lust of their passions. Pure tolerance extended to a theoretic "everyone" yielded, in de Sade's universe, absolute isolation of each individual from every other one. What promised to break down the barriers raised them to absolute heights as each eyed the other with mutual suspicion. This is not at all unlike what is happening in Hollywood today as one person after another is brought low by the unbridled exercise of their passions which unlimited amounts of money and power enable.

    As always, Camus advocated the positive power of putting in place and enforcing "limits" to human behavior.

    , @Jake
    You sound like the pedophile version of Hannibal Lector: a calm and soothing voiced sophisticate who happens to like doing monstrous things.
    , @Rurik

    In 1954, 30-35% of 1800 polled Californian college students reported having experienced sex with an adult as a child
     
    that had to have been in Hollywood

    perceptions of child-adult sex are not realistic and that harm is not pervasive.
     
    first what's a "child"

    as someone mentioned, our society castigates female school teachers for liaisons with their (adolescent) male students. The punishment isn't for any harm to the boy, but rather because the teacher broke a bond of trust with the parents not to 'go there'.

    No one cares if a grown women has sex with a fourteen year old boy. (Least of all the boy!)

    And no one (outside strict religious households) really care if a nineteen year old has a sexual relationship with a fourteen year old, so long as they're both equally mature and it's all consensual, and especially if they're married.

    the real issue is with those afflicted monsters (probably molested as children themselves) who prey on undeveloped children. I've seen thirteen year olds who look sexually mature, and if my sixteen year old son noticed them, I wouldn't be alarmed. (then again, if the thirteen year old was my daughter, perhaps I'd feel differently ; )

    but the whole point is adults who would prey on children. Like kids, you know. Ten, or eleven or six. And what to do about these monsters.

    I mentioned sex dolls, and perhaps there really is no harm, no foul. But the idea is so viscerally disturbing, that even then you want to pretend such revolting creatures don't even exist. But they do. (remember the soldier who had to be chastised for not tolerating the Afghan man having a sex-slave boy chained to his bed?)

    if they use a doll or a cartoon image, I suppose they ought to be allowed. From what I understand, there are men who abuse sex dolls and beat the hell out of them for sexual gratification. So there are some twisted and disturbing things going on in the human psyche for sure.

    but if a man abuses a child, like a ten year old for instance, then there is no such thing as consensual, and I'll just post a picture that's worth a thousand words..

    http://www.thesundaily.my/sites/default/files/thesun/Catalogue/2017-08-14T082744Z_47183347.jpg
    , @TWS
    I am 100% sure the study and survey are deeply flawed. Of course perverts always want people to affirm their perversions.
    , @Anon
    California was populated by a lot of people who, for some reason or other, couldn't make it further east. Sometimes it was because they were run out of their own communities for deviant behavior. A lot of people bolted to California in pioneering days to escape the law, and their behavior towards their children and grandchildren was less than normal.
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  28. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @The Alarmist

    It tends to come from poor countries where children g easily exploited. In the bush world, corruption, official inattention, and lack of resources mean that nothing much will be done ....
     
    Same could be said of the Bush world ... both of them.

    "Legalizing kid porn is not a winning political platform. "
     
    It is in the EU: The EC is pushing hard to lower the age of consent to 13. Is it a coincidence that Brussels was the center of a major paedo ring?

    It can lead to marriage that, in an age of feminism and feminist judges, is not a bright idea.
     
    Not all marriages end in failure, and not all women are rabid feminists.

    As men ask each other, Do you want to eat at the same restaurant every day?
     
    Call me boring, but if the food is good and served with love, why not?

    Thanks for the sanity. As to age of consent, yes in olden times age of consent was 12, but people were old at 30, if they arrived. And in Christian countries, women were afforded the protection of matrimony. (Mater + onus. The burden of maternity was shared).

    Now children mature much later, the desired lowering of age of consent in developed countries obviously has exploitative aims, and the target is not only girls, but boys. Homosexual pederasts are in power ( ephebophiles, distinct from pedophiles, they confuse terms on purpose). It seems we cannot see corruption when it is staring us straight in the face. We have even lost the vocabulary to name it.

    Marriage can be a community of life between a man and a woman, with the joy of transmission of life included, for those with the sanity to appreciate it. Not that everybody will, but it is their loss.

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  29. @anon
    In 1954, 30-35% of 1800 polled Californian college students reported having experienced sex with an adult as a child (Landis). Furthermore, Rind's meta-study into the personal outcomes of participants of child sex has repeatedly been replicated by various authors. The conclusion is consistently that perceptions of child-adult sex are not realistic and that harm is not pervasive.

    My view is that these sexual relationships were somewhat common but not talked about before the 1980s, which is the point in history when academic feminism and child protection became the dominant voice in the discourse of child sexuality . At this time satanic panic took hold, and visible friendships and states of attachment between extrafamilial adults and children became unacceptable.

    Children cannot learn advanced manners and ways of communicating, nor expand their world concept in the cold reptile farm known as the classroom. These things take a real relationship with an adult, whether a devoted parent, or a friend the child has discovered on their own. No wonder each generation seem coarsened.

    I’m not sure I want to touch this conversation with a “barge pole”, but I will comment that psychologists observe that the greatest damage is often done by the way that parents react with shaming and denial when a child has been molested by another family member or acquaintance. Victims, especially the less intelligent or otherwise more vulnerable, have a hard time dealing with the fact that something forbidden and shameful was accompanied by pleasurable sensations and arousal.

    Not to make excuses for offenders, but not all the harm is done directly by their actions.

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  30. Logan says:
    @ThreeCranes
    Like you I take a biological tack in looking at this thing. Why is sex with underage children bad? Why do we condemn it?

    My answer is that for one thing, children don't smell like adults do. From biology we know that scent is integral to sexual arousal. Anyone who has owned a dog knows that receptive females emit odors that bring every male within miles to the back door.

    Now, biologists have assured us that the role of scent in human sexuality is less important than it is in most mammals. Instead, as you point out with the waist-hip ratio observation, visual cues play an important part. (Incidentally, this is why we have today so many misunderstandings and accusations of harassment by women against men. Women show their wares and men respond. But women insist that such display wasn't meant to arouse a male. "Well then, what was it for?" the guy asks in exasperation.)

    But back to kids. They are inappropriate objects of sexual fantasies for the very simple reason that they (are not adults, but that is circular and gets us nowhere) are not equipped to deal with sex at their age. And this is proven by the fact that they emit no scent that arouses the male. They smell like kids smell. They are Innocent.

    No male should get aroused by a kid because they don't smell like a 20 year old woman. That's the bare minimum we can say. That they don't smell like an adult means that nature has not yet prepared them to deal with sex. Period.

    I don't care what the biologists say; scent is part of human sex. Tell me you were not aroused when you nuzzled your girlfriend's neck behind her ear and breathed in her scent, the scent of a woman. And so on.

    So setting moralizing aside, even if we just take our cues from biology and follow our noses, sex with immature persons is wrong.

    No male should get aroused by a kid because they don’t smell like a 20 year old woman.

    Doing good till this sentence.

    The scent thing happens at puberty, which is getting younger and younger. A 13 year old girl who is past puberty is from a physical standpoint fully a woman.

    Our prohibitions on sex before 16 or 18 or whatever, which which I agree, BTW, are based on social conventions, not anything to do with physical or medical reality.

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    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II

    Our prohibitions on sex before 16 or 18 or whatever, which which I agree, BTW, are based on social conventions, not anything to do with physical or medical reality.
     
    this is very true, it is why certain countries have age of consent laws.
    , @notanon

    The scent thing happens at puberty, which is getting younger and younger. A 13 year old girl who is past puberty is from a physical standpoint fully a woman.
     
    puberty is occurring below the natural age because of the pozzed diet - fix the diet and the average age of puberty will go back up
    , @notanon

    Our prohibitions on sex before 16 or 18 or whatever, which which I agree, BTW, are based on social conventions, not anything to do with physical or medical reality.
     
    if a society wants optimal selection then children don't make optimal decisions or parents

    it makes more sense to push average age of puberty back up to 16 or so
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  31. I have no problem with Fred’s proposed solution per se, but who will pay for the system that keeps pedos busy and away from real children? And who will pay for policing pedos and keeping them away from productive society altogether, as they should be?

    I don’t get it — just like I don’t “get” the huge concessions America has made to the, er, noble passion of homosexuality. Why the hell do we have to tolerate it at ALL? Is civilization to be nothing but a tribute to sexual perversions?

    Hell no. They can either NOT exhibit the behavior, in any form whatsoever, or they can die. Letting evolution do its thing has worked so well for so long … why frustrate evolution?

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    • Replies: @AKAHorace
    What if child molestation has been going on for a long time and only in modern times is it being openly admitted to ?

    I am not sure if Fred is right, but I think that he has raised a question worth considering.
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  32. Rurik says:
    @Anon
    Dear God, what a comments section.

    I think the UR has gotten way more sensationalistic lately. New authors, and a low-rated one is out, but especially the headlines. Top off my head, it started with Giraldi's "American Jews are driving America's wars". Though journalistically valid, with same text and another title, he wouldn't have got fired. Then the super Mao-Weinsten pieces, now this.

    I suppose traffic must be increasing, I see quite a lot of new commenters, which is OK because we commenters are often repetitive or have narrow interests. But the quality of comments cannot benefit if headlines "grab" us emotionally. Recently, more stupid jokes, and interminable spats, and how many pictures are really worth a thousand words?

    I vote for a middle-of-the-road editorial headline policy. Mr. Unz?

    I vote for

    what a pathetic joke

    you’ve not only contributed nothing to the conversation, you’ve done so behind the cowardly cloak of ‘Anon’

    some pictures are indeed worth a thousand words (like the one with our sniveling congress gushing over Bibi, hectoring our president from our own capital. That one is a doozy! ; )

    I suspect that Mr. Unz doesn’t want his site to be a dry and hoary crypt of doddering academic highbrow. At least not exclusively.

    It lightens things up and opens the mental pathways to refreshing diversions for the discussions to follow questions of ethics and current news, events, ect.. I would posit.

    Humbly. As Ron tolerates some of our occasional transgressions of decorum. ;)

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    • Replies: @RobinG
    Dearest Rurik,

    The departed Razib Khan is the closest this site has gotten to "a dry and hoary crypt of doddering academic highbrow." In my estimation, UR is unreservedly populist. Those who find it arcane only reveal the deplorable superficiality of general discourse.
    , @Anon
    Brave Rurik, if the shoe fits, then wear it.
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  33. Hu Mi Yu says:

    Commenters here who think viewers of kiddie porn should be shot, drowned, etc “protest too much.” Latent pedophiles defend themselves against their own urges by saying such things.

    The purpose of Tor is obtaining material for blackmail and extortion. Don’t use it.

    In the last century or so the age of consent has gone up and the definition of sex has expanded. It used to mean only activity involved with procreation. The medical quack Sigmund Freud changed that. Now if you dream of two mountains, that is the same as having sex with your mother.

    Sigmund had a daughter Anna who was also a psychoanalyst. According to a neighbor of mine who was the daughter of a psychiatrist, those father-daughter relationships are very common. The “good” that psychoanalysis did was to save the reputations of powerful men while releasing the daughters from asylums to which they were committed. According to her mother, psychoanalysis also provides the analyst with abundant material for extortion: something like Tor.

    As far as protecting children, we need to see that they are fed, not physically abused, and are sent to school. We can’t even do this. All the blather about child sex is a distraction that only makes a bad situation worse. Why the fixation on sex?

    Read More
    • Replies: @notanon

    Commenters here who think viewers of kiddie porn should be shot, drowned, etc “protest too much.” Latent pedophiles defend themselves against their own urges by saying such things.
     
    1) shucks

    2) two kinds of pedophile imo: 1) those who have an unnatural attraction for some gene expression reason and 2) sociopaths who get high from getting away with extreme transgression (and torturing kids is as extreme as you can get)

    reason (2) is why there are disproportionate numbers among the political/media/financial elite imo

    The purpose of Tor is obtaining material for blackmail and extortion.
     
    true - it's why porn in general is effectively free

    As far as protecting children, we need to...
     
    protect them from predatory adults until they are mentally mature enough to make their own decisions
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  34. jtgw says:
    @Rurik

    But leaving things as they are will, well, leave things as they are, with wretchedly bad treatment of a lot of children. Anyone have a better idea?
     
    birth control for the third world would be a great step towards preventing children in those regions from being so desperate and subject to depraved exploitation

    DNA mapping pedophiles for genetic, congenital predispositions (the British aristocracy for instance) and then screening for those traits at the zygote level for termination

    (there may be some potential future advantage for violent criminals in society, if a society ever requires a violent revolution for instance, but I can't think of even one potential advantage of having pedophiles born and/or exist)

    give them strychnine-laced child 'sex dolls'

    Or you could say it's been made legal so long as they only use the dolls, and then they could select between eight year old boys or five year old girls, and then have them walk though the 'brothel door' and fall into a pit of ravenous crocodiles or pigs or something

    ~ just trying to help out here Fred

    provocative article. Thanks

    There is some evidence that our attempts to do good in the Third World even encourage this behavior. For example, in the 1990s it emerged that successful outside attempts to make Bangladesh outlaw child labor in factories led to an increase in child prostitution. If you’re going to ban child labor, you also need to pony up the income to replace the lost earnings.

    I would venture that we need more free trade (not necessarily free migration, though). I don’t know about our trade policy with the Philippines but I do know that e.g. US and EU agricultural trade restrictions are almost certainly responsible for a great deal of impoverishment in poor countries where agriculture forms a huge part of the economy.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rurik

    outside attempts to make Bangladesh outlaw child labor in factories led to an increase in child prostitution.
     
    yes, I remember a lot of handwringing after the Savar building collapse, and how these people were being so exploited. But then they were either exploited thus, or would starve.

    The main problem with child exploitation, sexual or otherwise, is rampant poverty.

    the main reason there's rampant poverty is because the governments of these nations do not want their subjects to have access to birth control, because the more subjects they have, the more wealthy and powerful the elites of those nations are.

    Many of the wealthy elites of the planet, (yes, think the British aristocracy, Hollywood, the Beltway) want for there to be legions of impoverished children to abuse. So they work towards policies that will fulfill their appetites, both from without these poor nations, and from within.

    The solution is birth control and education and empowerment of the women of these poor countries, but such solutions are anathema to the ruling classes, and the Catholic Church, and the business interests who like the slave labor wages.

    You see the same thing here in the States, as they're doing all they can to create the kind of conditions here that exist in Mexico and the rest of the impoverished third world.

    They want a society where they have everything, and the masses have nothing. That way they can abuse the people, including children, (sexually and otherwise) to their rotten, twisted heart's content.

    It's just infinitely more tragic when it's children that are being abused in the most depraved way by these cretinous monsters.

    Birth control is the long term solution, not just to this atrocity, but to so much that plagues this world.
    , @notanon
    reduce poverty by reducing over supply of labor -> reduce population
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  35. @anon
    In 1954, 30-35% of 1800 polled Californian college students reported having experienced sex with an adult as a child (Landis). Furthermore, Rind's meta-study into the personal outcomes of participants of child sex has repeatedly been replicated by various authors. The conclusion is consistently that perceptions of child-adult sex are not realistic and that harm is not pervasive.

    My view is that these sexual relationships were somewhat common but not talked about before the 1980s, which is the point in history when academic feminism and child protection became the dominant voice in the discourse of child sexuality . At this time satanic panic took hold, and visible friendships and states of attachment between extrafamilial adults and children became unacceptable.

    Children cannot learn advanced manners and ways of communicating, nor expand their world concept in the cold reptile farm known as the classroom. These things take a real relationship with an adult, whether a devoted parent, or a friend the child has discovered on their own. No wonder each generation seem coarsened.

    Thank you for your perceptive comment “visible friendships and states of attachment between extrafamilial adults and children became unacceptable”.

    This is immensely true. As an adult male I must be continually on my guard against any suggestion that my dealings with say, a random child passing in front of my home on the street or even a child with his mother, are anything but above board and beyond suspicion. Men are walking in a literal minefield these days.

    This is sad. When I was a boy, my neighbor, a fine old Jewish man, used to walk around our neighborhood. Our paths would cross as I rode my bike hither, thither and yon. Invariably he would stop me and call me over. “Have I ever showed you my muscle?” he would ask. Then he would roll up his sleeve and flex his bicep. He’d been a farmer in his earlier days (there were photos of mule teams made up of 12 mules on his wall) and he had kept himself in great shape, like a lot of men did in those days. He had really strong arms, a powerful bicep. Then he’d chuckle, haul out his coin purse (that old kind you squeezed together to open) and give me two dimes because he knew that a kid couldn’t get enough candy to power his dynamo. And then he’d send me on my way.

    Part of the reason he liked me, I think, is because he’d seen me from his window, as a little shaver, riding my stick horse (anyone remember them?) around our house, shooting bad guys, climbing trees etc. But I believe he was also buying some insurance. My sister often played dominoes with his wife. There were lots of kids around. By striking up friendship with us, this old couple insured that there were some kids in the neighborhood who would prevent others from vandalizing their property and so on.

    But anyway, there was no suggestion of impropriety involved. It was perfectly natural for a neighbor man to befriend a kid on the street. That was part of the community. Today, my wife doesn’t understand when I tell her that she can deal with kids in a way that no man is allowed to.

    In fact, I’m even reluctant to publish this comment so afraid am I of having my (or my neighbor’s) intentions misinterpreted. It’s as though, formerly, when lines between what was socially acceptable and what was not were clear cut and specified, we had more freedom to interact, to be free. Now that lines between genders, determinations of what is acceptable behavior etc. have become blurred, we are actually less free, our intentions are always suspect. Is this not ironic? The unintended consequences of Liberal “good intentions”? The Hegelian “antithesis hidden within the thesis” of so-called “tolerance”? Liberal “tolerance” of everything puts everything under a cloud of suspicion.

    Formerly, rectitude and propriety were prima facie evidence of good intentions. Today, since liberals don’t acknowledge the claim to higher morality implicit in propriety, since everything is mere arbitrary sign which has no inherent significance, since all cultural markers are nothing but easily picked-up and readily modified cultural habits, nothing can be taken as evidence of good character and good intentions. Everyone and everything is under suspicion.

    Camus pointed this out in his essay on the Marquis de Sade in his book “The Rebel”. When, as advocated by de Sade, licentiousness is given free rein, the paradoxical result is murder. It is a society of all against all, each separated by suspicion as people gave in to the insatiable lust of their passions. Pure tolerance extended to a theoretic “everyone” yielded, in de Sade’s universe, absolute isolation of each individual from every other one. What promised to break down the barriers raised them to absolute heights as each eyed the other with mutual suspicion. This is not at all unlike what is happening in Hollywood today as one person after another is brought low by the unbridled exercise of their passions which unlimited amounts of money and power enable.

    As always, Camus advocated the positive power of putting in place and enforcing “limits” to human behavior.

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    • Replies: @Kiza
    I liked your comment, so let me add my two cents worth.

    I grew up in a South-Eastern European country. When I was about 19-20 years old I used to go playing basketball in a communal court about 1 km away from my home, passing through several residential streets on the way. I have been doing this for years, but then all of a sudden a group of young girls, about 6-12 years old formed and started making amorous comments when I was passing by. After a short while, all whilst laughing I started walking fast and then even running away from the “mob”. Well, this made the situation even worse, the little girls got really excited by an opportunity to chase their pray. So here I am running through this one narrow street and a bunch of about 15 young girls chasing excitedly after me with their short summer skirts flying around them in the air, like colourful little parasols. It was a spectacular sight and several neighbors from the houses on this street would stand and watch and smile and laugh, some possibly even parents of those girls. A totally innocent situation, by all accounts until one day apparently a father of one of the girls stooped me and ordered me never to walk through the same public street again under the treat of severe violence. I pointed out to him that I never showed any interest in any of the little girls, that this was a completely public street and that any alternative route to where I was going was almost double. All to no avail - I would be beaten up if I showed up again. Naturally, this was the point when I mentioned by basketball buddies and suggested that the threat source could be beaten back. In summary, the little girls disappeared and I have never seen them again.

    It is really important to appreciate the variety of human behavior and to avoid inrpretting and even restricting the learning of children. By limiting interactions with adults to a very narrow set of approved behaviours we are just doin damage. I am a father of a little girl now and I know that I would only monitor but never restrict a similar behaviour in my daughter.
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  36. @Logan
    No male should get aroused by a kid because they don’t smell like a 20 year old woman.

    Doing good till this sentence.

    The scent thing happens at puberty, which is getting younger and younger. A 13 year old girl who is past puberty is from a physical standpoint fully a woman.

    Our prohibitions on sex before 16 or 18 or whatever, which which I agree, BTW, are based on social conventions, not anything to do with physical or medical reality.

    Our prohibitions on sex before 16 or 18 or whatever, which which I agree, BTW, are based on social conventions, not anything to do with physical or medical reality.

    this is very true, it is why certain countries have age of consent laws.

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  37. Jake says:
    @anon
    In 1954, 30-35% of 1800 polled Californian college students reported having experienced sex with an adult as a child (Landis). Furthermore, Rind's meta-study into the personal outcomes of participants of child sex has repeatedly been replicated by various authors. The conclusion is consistently that perceptions of child-adult sex are not realistic and that harm is not pervasive.

    My view is that these sexual relationships were somewhat common but not talked about before the 1980s, which is the point in history when academic feminism and child protection became the dominant voice in the discourse of child sexuality . At this time satanic panic took hold, and visible friendships and states of attachment between extrafamilial adults and children became unacceptable.

    Children cannot learn advanced manners and ways of communicating, nor expand their world concept in the cold reptile farm known as the classroom. These things take a real relationship with an adult, whether a devoted parent, or a friend the child has discovered on their own. No wonder each generation seem coarsened.

    You sound like the pedophile version of Hannibal Lector: a calm and soothing voiced sophisticate who happens to like doing monstrous things.

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  38. Rurik says:
    @anon
    In 1954, 30-35% of 1800 polled Californian college students reported having experienced sex with an adult as a child (Landis). Furthermore, Rind's meta-study into the personal outcomes of participants of child sex has repeatedly been replicated by various authors. The conclusion is consistently that perceptions of child-adult sex are not realistic and that harm is not pervasive.

    My view is that these sexual relationships were somewhat common but not talked about before the 1980s, which is the point in history when academic feminism and child protection became the dominant voice in the discourse of child sexuality . At this time satanic panic took hold, and visible friendships and states of attachment between extrafamilial adults and children became unacceptable.

    Children cannot learn advanced manners and ways of communicating, nor expand their world concept in the cold reptile farm known as the classroom. These things take a real relationship with an adult, whether a devoted parent, or a friend the child has discovered on their own. No wonder each generation seem coarsened.

    In 1954, 30-35% of 1800 polled Californian college students reported having experienced sex with an adult as a child

    that had to have been in Hollywood

    perceptions of child-adult sex are not realistic and that harm is not pervasive.

    first what’s a “child”

    as someone mentioned, our society castigates female school teachers for liaisons with their (adolescent) male students. The punishment isn’t for any harm to the boy, but rather because the teacher broke a bond of trust with the parents not to ‘go there’.

    No one cares if a grown women has sex with a fourteen year old boy. (Least of all the boy!)

    And no one (outside strict religious households) really care if a nineteen year old has a sexual relationship with a fourteen year old, so long as they’re both equally mature and it’s all consensual, and especially if they’re married.

    the real issue is with those afflicted monsters (probably molested as children themselves) who prey on undeveloped children. I’ve seen thirteen year olds who look sexually mature, and if my sixteen year old son noticed them, I wouldn’t be alarmed. (then again, if the thirteen year old was my daughter, perhaps I’d feel differently ; )

    but the whole point is adults who would prey on children. Like kids, you know. Ten, or eleven or six. And what to do about these monsters.

    I mentioned sex dolls, and perhaps there really is no harm, no foul. But the idea is so viscerally disturbing, that even then you want to pretend such revolting creatures don’t even exist. But they do. (remember the soldier who had to be chastised for not tolerating the Afghan man having a sex-slave boy chained to his bed?)

    if they use a doll or a cartoon image, I suppose they ought to be allowed. From what I understand, there are men who abuse sex dolls and beat the hell out of them for sexual gratification. So there are some twisted and disturbing things going on in the human psyche for sure.

    but if a man abuses a child, like a ten year old for instance, then there is no such thing as consensual, and I’ll just post a picture that’s worth a thousand words..

    Read More
    • Replies: @The Alarmist

    "No one cares if a grown women has sex with a fourteen year old boy. (Least of all the boy!)"
     
    I do wonder where these teachers were when I was in school ;)

    "And no one (outside strict religious households) really care if a nineteen year old has a sexual relationship with a fourteen year old, so long as they’re both equally mature and it’s all consensual, and especially if they’re married."
     
    There's a world of difference in the emotional capacities of a fourteen year-old and a nineteen year-old. Besides that, where do you draw the line? Why not a fifty year-old and a fourteen year-old? I know plenty of Boomers who have the EQ of fourteen year-olds.

    I saw a few comments above suggesting perhaps that the age of consent should be lower, especially given how much more "mature" teens are these days: I would posit that an 18 year-old today is less emotionally developed than a 12 year-old of 100 years ago, and it is actually advisable to raise the age of consent to at least 18 ... then again, who would enforce it?

    Public hangings of paedos are one of the few good practises coming out of that part of the world. We can, of course, be more humane and offer chemical castration. What's going to happen, though, is that paedophilia will be normalised in the DSM, and ultimately legalised.

    , @Intelligent Dasein

    No one cares if a grown women has sex with a fourteen year old boy. (Least of all the boy!)
     
    Not so. I care, and if other people don't care then they really ought to.

    Every time another one of these female-teacher/male-student stories hits the headlines, the comments sections of the various media are deluged with people sounding off to the effect of, "There is no crime here. We are talking about a sexually mature individual of 14. All that happened was that the boy got the thrill of a lifetime, and anyway you cannot rape the willing (i.e. a male must be sexually aroused to the point of having an erection before he can have sex, and therefore he must be 'willing')."

    Now, all of this is either ridiculous or deeply perverted, but it is readily repeated by a whole chorus of White Knights who are anxious to excuse away the woman's evil act.

    Let us first examine the idea that a female simply cannot, by definition, sexually abuse a male. This is an absurd belief that flies in the face of all human experience. Woman are very artful at using sex to manipulate men, to hurt and wound them, and to get whatever they want out of them. All of this is also a form of sexual abuse. To say that the teacher was incapable of abusing the boy is as much to say that no woman has ever used a man's own sexuality against him, or as a means to some other end. And a more patently untrue statement could scarcely be formulated.

    As far as "not raping the willing," let's be realistic here. At the age of 14 most boys can get an erection at the merest hint of anything feminine, whether they really want to or not. It would be easy for the teacher to spring the boys into action by flirting, touching, and showing some skin. Then suppose the boys go through with the act, due to the nature of the sexual urge. Does that mean they were fully "willing"? Of course not, for that would be as much to say that no man ever gratified his sexual nature with a woman and then regretted and abhorred it later, which is another patently untrue statement.

    Furthermore, contrary to what is often implied about 14-year-old boys, they do not all have the notion of banging a teacher and then going home and playing Xbox as if nothing had happened as their chief objective in life. The idea that this was nothing more than "the thrill of a lifetime" is insulting to the moral character of these boys. Adolescence is a time of strong, burgeoning sexual desire, but it is also a time of great idealism, faith, intellectual joy, and curiosity about the meaning of life. It is hardly uncommon for young men to feel like their stirrings towards women are somehow connecting them to a greater reality (and they're right). Half of all the love poetry in the world plays upon this theme. Sure, the boys want to have sex, but some of them also want to be men as well. They want to be husbands and fathers; they want to do right by their families; they want to be heroes and winners. These are all things they are almost certain not to attain through their dalliance with the teacher, and if she held out a promise of this as a means of getting to the boy, that is one of the worst forms of sexual abuse I can think of. Suppose the young man already came from a troubled home and was very sensitive to the actions of mother-figures? What kind of pain can compare to being deceived by yet another "mom"?

    And then there are all the social effects of the scandal once it becomes known. What of the other boys and girls at the school? What of the other teachers? What jealousies, suspicions, and constrained behaviors will result from this? Will good people be somewhat deterred from pursuing a teaching career the more this goes on? Probably. Will parents be less sanguine about sending their kids to school? Again, probably. There isn't anything good that results from such a scandal, just a broadening circle of disappointment, cynicism, and brokenness.

    To round it all off, it also needs to be said that premarital or extramarital sex between any man and woman, regardless of the other circumstances involved, is itself not something to be merely waved away. It is wrong in and of itself. It does not violate the Natural Law, but it does degrade the sanctity of the human soul and it destroys the bonds that hold families and societies together.

    The ultimate answer to all of this is chastity. The perfect chastity of priests and religious, and the imperfect chastity of married people living out the duties of holy matrimony. It is not to be found in laws, in ages of consent, or in anything else but the intentions of people to do rightly, assisted by the grace of God.

    , @RobinG

    No one cares if a grown women has sex with a fourteen year old boy. (Least of all the boy!)

    And no one (outside strict religious households) really care if a nineteen year old has a sexual relationship with a fourteen year old, so long as they’re both equally mature and it’s all consensual, and especially if they’re married.
     
    Actually, both of those are statutory rape, as would be sex between 2 under-age adolescents.
    , @notanon

    No one cares if a grown women has sex with a fourteen year old boy. (Least of all the boy!)
     
    it's true men care less about it that way round but most mothers i've known are very hostile to it.
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  39. ken says:
    @Greg Bacon
    Since part of this toxic problem is over population, where parents pimp out a child so they can feed the rest, then it's time for those responsible to step up and help stop this downward spiral, like the Vatican.

    Even though its filled with misogynists and homosexuals, the Vatican has been able to dictate to Christian women for century's that they must NOT use birth control of any kind, since that is a mortal sin. Whereas with all the homosexual activity in that hot bed of corruption, with cardinals and bishops hopping in bed with male prostitutes must only be a venial sin--Yes, I'm a recovering Catholic.

    So time to strip the Vatican of some of that loot they've looted over the centuries to help pay not only for food for the Catholic poor, but also for birth control to be sanctified and no longer a sin, since if there is a God, then I'm guessing he/she/it would tend to view the use of birth control in a much less harsh light than letting kids starve to death and perform in kiddie porn pics.

    Homo activity is a mortal sin in the Catholic Church.

    I love this imaginary world where poor brown Catholics refuse to use contraception because, ya know, church rules. But then the same indoctrinated fool ignores all other aspects of Christian life and pimps out his underage children. You can’t have it both ways unless you are the same old anti-Catholic bigot. And always a more enlightened former Catholic to boot.

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  40. nsa says:

    Hey, Freddie
    A screed like this makes one wonder what you have been up to (pun, get it?) in your spare time…….especially as the age of consent in your favored Mexico is 12 years old!?

    Read More
    • Replies: @John Jeremiah Smith
    You are one poster I vote be given the boot. Permanently. You contribute nothing. You are stupid and vindictive beyond all human norms.
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  41. @guest
    Playboy almost certainly didn't condition you to enjoy sexually mature women. Most people aren't attracted children. (Unless they happen to look older than they are.)

    That is true. You saw very few women over the age of 30 in the bunny mag.

    Read More
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  42. Truth says:
    @flyingtiger
    One of the side effects of reading playboy at a young age is that you have no interest in underage women. I do not understand the appeal of kiddie porn.

    One of the side effects of reading playboy at a young age is that you have no interest in underage women. I do not understand the appeal of kiddie porn.

    Sport, you just wrote a mouthful!

    Read More
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  43. @nsa
    Hey, Freddie
    A screed like this makes one wonder what you have been up to (pun, get it?) in your spare time.......especially as the age of consent in your favored Mexico is 12 years old!?

    You are one poster I vote be given the boot. Permanently. You contribute nothing. You are stupid and vindictive beyond all human norms.

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  44. Another Deluge.

    This time, not so much as a floating plank allowed.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Simply Simon
    Not a Deluge, Fire next time.
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  45. Rurik says:
    @jtgw
    There is some evidence that our attempts to do good in the Third World even encourage this behavior. For example, in the 1990s it emerged that successful outside attempts to make Bangladesh outlaw child labor in factories led to an increase in child prostitution. If you're going to ban child labor, you also need to pony up the income to replace the lost earnings.

    I would venture that we need more free trade (not necessarily free migration, though). I don't know about our trade policy with the Philippines but I do know that e.g. US and EU agricultural trade restrictions are almost certainly responsible for a great deal of impoverishment in poor countries where agriculture forms a huge part of the economy.

    outside attempts to make Bangladesh outlaw child labor in factories led to an increase in child prostitution.

    yes, I remember a lot of handwringing after the Savar building collapse, and how these people were being so exploited. But then they were either exploited thus, or would starve.

    The main problem with child exploitation, sexual or otherwise, is rampant poverty.

    the main reason there’s rampant poverty is because the governments of these nations do not want their subjects to have access to birth control, because the more subjects they have, the more wealthy and powerful the elites of those nations are.

    Many of the wealthy elites of the planet, (yes, think the British aristocracy, Hollywood, the Beltway) want for there to be legions of impoverished children to abuse. So they work towards policies that will fulfill their appetites, both from without these poor nations, and from within.

    The solution is birth control and education and empowerment of the women of these poor countries, but such solutions are anathema to the ruling classes, and the Catholic Church, and the business interests who like the slave labor wages.

    You see the same thing here in the States, as they’re doing all they can to create the kind of conditions here that exist in Mexico and the rest of the impoverished third world.

    They want a society where they have everything, and the masses have nothing. That way they can abuse the people, including children, (sexually and otherwise) to their rotten, twisted heart’s content.

    It’s just infinitely more tragic when it’s children that are being abused in the most depraved way by these cretinous monsters.

    Birth control is the long term solution, not just to this atrocity, but to so much that plagues this world.

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  46. I don’t think the real danger comes from kiddie porn. People see that for what it is. As for digi-kiddie-porn, people may be more tolerant but they would still see it for what it is: stuff for sickos and degenerates.

    The real danger comes from pornification of mainstream culture in a society where sexualization of children is the New Normal in schools and entertainment.

    Now, stuff about fecal penetration is taught to elementary school kids. Proggy parents think they are ‘more evolved’ because they tell their kids it’s noble to bang the bung.
    Some parents allow or even push hormone therapy to their kids for eventual sex-change.

    As for entertainment, Disney is often a purveyor of sexualization of kids. Whore-ish dress is marketed to young ones.
    Ariana Grande is promoted as a positive ‘role model’ for kids. Black culture like ‘twerking’ is deemed appropriate for kids. Every kid has smartphone and send pics of genitals. An entire generation of kids grew up to Minaj and her booty shaking. What is considered wholesome is really hole-some.

    If this is okay for kids, then it means kids are sexual creatures. It means kids should be doing each other. And if kids should be doing each other, the next logical step is adults should be doing kids. I mean sex is sex, the pedos will argue.

    It is this indirect path to pedophilia that is far more insidious.

    Read More
    • Replies: @notanon

    It is this indirect path to pedophilia that is far more insidious.
     
    this is true - one of the side effects of people being extremely hostile to pedophilia (but not actually following through with trying to remove it form the gene pool) is they get very stealth working behind the scenes of society to get schools and media to sexualize kids for them.
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  47. @Rurik

    In 1954, 30-35% of 1800 polled Californian college students reported having experienced sex with an adult as a child
     
    that had to have been in Hollywood

    perceptions of child-adult sex are not realistic and that harm is not pervasive.
     
    first what's a "child"

    as someone mentioned, our society castigates female school teachers for liaisons with their (adolescent) male students. The punishment isn't for any harm to the boy, but rather because the teacher broke a bond of trust with the parents not to 'go there'.

    No one cares if a grown women has sex with a fourteen year old boy. (Least of all the boy!)

    And no one (outside strict religious households) really care if a nineteen year old has a sexual relationship with a fourteen year old, so long as they're both equally mature and it's all consensual, and especially if they're married.

    the real issue is with those afflicted monsters (probably molested as children themselves) who prey on undeveloped children. I've seen thirteen year olds who look sexually mature, and if my sixteen year old son noticed them, I wouldn't be alarmed. (then again, if the thirteen year old was my daughter, perhaps I'd feel differently ; )

    but the whole point is adults who would prey on children. Like kids, you know. Ten, or eleven or six. And what to do about these monsters.

    I mentioned sex dolls, and perhaps there really is no harm, no foul. But the idea is so viscerally disturbing, that even then you want to pretend such revolting creatures don't even exist. But they do. (remember the soldier who had to be chastised for not tolerating the Afghan man having a sex-slave boy chained to his bed?)

    if they use a doll or a cartoon image, I suppose they ought to be allowed. From what I understand, there are men who abuse sex dolls and beat the hell out of them for sexual gratification. So there are some twisted and disturbing things going on in the human psyche for sure.

    but if a man abuses a child, like a ten year old for instance, then there is no such thing as consensual, and I'll just post a picture that's worth a thousand words..

    http://www.thesundaily.my/sites/default/files/thesun/Catalogue/2017-08-14T082744Z_47183347.jpg

    “No one cares if a grown women has sex with a fourteen year old boy. (Least of all the boy!)”

    I do wonder where these teachers were when I was in school ;)

    “And no one (outside strict religious households) really care if a nineteen year old has a sexual relationship with a fourteen year old, so long as they’re both equally mature and it’s all consensual, and especially if they’re married.”

    There’s a world of difference in the emotional capacities of a fourteen year-old and a nineteen year-old. Besides that, where do you draw the line? Why not a fifty year-old and a fourteen year-old? I know plenty of Boomers who have the EQ of fourteen year-olds.

    I saw a few comments above suggesting perhaps that the age of consent should be lower, especially given how much more “mature” teens are these days: I would posit that an 18 year-old today is less emotionally developed than a 12 year-old of 100 years ago, and it is actually advisable to raise the age of consent to at least 18 … then again, who would enforce it?

    Public hangings of paedos are one of the few good practises coming out of that part of the world. We can, of course, be more humane and offer chemical castration. What’s going to happen, though, is that paedophilia will be normalised in the DSM, and ultimately legalised.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rurik

    There’s a world of difference in the emotional capacities of a fourteen year-old and a nineteen year-old.
     
    many, not all.

    Generally teenage girls are far more mature than their male counterparts.

    It all depends on the situation. If you're a fourteen year girls from a traditional-type rural village in Peru, and the nineteen year old boy who lives next door and wants to marry you is at your emotional maturity level, then I would not presume to tell the parents what they deem best for their children if they consented to the marriage.

    My problem is with grown men (especially British for some reason) who want to have legal access to (most likely poor and desperate) teenage boys. Basically they want to turn Britain (and everywhere else these serial pedophiles reign, like in Hollywood for instance) into a giant brothel for their depraved appetites.

    As Priss mentioned above, the West is descending into a moral abyss, where they're letting Hollywood determine our morality, or extreme lack there of.

    I'm reminded of how Austria's supreme court set aside the conviction of a grown male rapist who brutalized a ten year old boy. Not because the rapist wasn't guilty- he was. But rather because the rapist was an immigrant, and therefor it would be culturally chauvinistic to impose (outdated) Western morality on others whose lifestyle choices, like brutally raping local boys, is more diverse, and therefor must be embraced.

    Ironically if this rapist had committed the crime in his own country, he'd likely have been hanged. Or even impaled, as I once watched a (disturbing) video of a Middle Eastern child rapist punished thus.

    Not everyone considers child rapists as a multicultural benefit to society.
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  48. Truth says:

    That’s a brilliant idea, Fred.

    Put raw, albeit genetically modified, meat in front of tigers… and take the cages away.

    Acutually you are on the money, somewhat. They have already decriminalized viewing child porn in England.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4266056/Paedophiles-shouldn-t-face-charges-child-porn.html

    Read More
    • Replies: @woodNfish_too
    I think it is pretty safe to assume that "top cop" in Britain who is promoting okaying kiddie porn is a child rapist himself.

    That said, some problems have no solution. This is one of them, but ALL child molesters should be executed because there is no cure except death.
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  49. Tiny Duck says:

    This is almost exclusively a white male problem

    A solution to stop the problem is to closely monitor white men at all times

    Read More
    • Replies: @John Jeremiah Smith

    This is almost exclusively a white male problem

    A solution to stop the problem is to closely monitor white men at all times
     
    No, the rates are higher among negros, mexicans and asians. Go look it up.
    , @notanon

    This is almost exclusively a white male problem
     
    sexual violence of all kinds is worst in gang ruled urban ghettos - so bad it's considered normal and mostly unreported

    what is reported is still too large to admit and gets covered up by the media
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  50. Rurik says:
    @The Alarmist

    "No one cares if a grown women has sex with a fourteen year old boy. (Least of all the boy!)"
     
    I do wonder where these teachers were when I was in school ;)

    "And no one (outside strict religious households) really care if a nineteen year old has a sexual relationship with a fourteen year old, so long as they’re both equally mature and it’s all consensual, and especially if they’re married."
     
    There's a world of difference in the emotional capacities of a fourteen year-old and a nineteen year-old. Besides that, where do you draw the line? Why not a fifty year-old and a fourteen year-old? I know plenty of Boomers who have the EQ of fourteen year-olds.

    I saw a few comments above suggesting perhaps that the age of consent should be lower, especially given how much more "mature" teens are these days: I would posit that an 18 year-old today is less emotionally developed than a 12 year-old of 100 years ago, and it is actually advisable to raise the age of consent to at least 18 ... then again, who would enforce it?

    Public hangings of paedos are one of the few good practises coming out of that part of the world. We can, of course, be more humane and offer chemical castration. What's going to happen, though, is that paedophilia will be normalised in the DSM, and ultimately legalised.

    There’s a world of difference in the emotional capacities of a fourteen year-old and a nineteen year-old.

    many, not all.

    Generally teenage girls are far more mature than their male counterparts.

    It all depends on the situation. If you’re a fourteen year girls from a traditional-type rural village in Peru, and the nineteen year old boy who lives next door and wants to marry you is at your emotional maturity level, then I would not presume to tell the parents what they deem best for their children if they consented to the marriage.

    My problem is with grown men (especially British for some reason) who want to have legal access to (most likely poor and desperate) teenage boys. Basically they want to turn Britain (and everywhere else these serial pedophiles reign, like in Hollywood for instance) into a giant brothel for their depraved appetites.

    As Priss mentioned above, the West is descending into a moral abyss, where they’re letting Hollywood determine our morality, or extreme lack there of.

    I’m reminded of how Austria’s supreme court set aside the conviction of a grown male rapist who brutalized a ten year old boy. Not because the rapist wasn’t guilty- he was. But rather because the rapist was an immigrant, and therefor it would be culturally chauvinistic to impose (outdated) Western morality on others whose lifestyle choices, like brutally raping local boys, is more diverse, and therefor must be embraced.

    Ironically if this rapist had committed the crime in his own country, he’d likely have been hanged. Or even impaled, as I once watched a (disturbing) video of a Middle Eastern child rapist punished thus.

    Not everyone considers child rapists as a multicultural benefit to society.

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  51. @Tiny Duck
    This is almost exclusively a white male problem

    A solution to stop the problem is to closely monitor white men at all times

    This is almost exclusively a white male problem

    A solution to stop the problem is to closely monitor white men at all times

    No, the rates are higher among negros, mexicans and asians. Go look it up.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Truth
    LOL, you first.
    , @Tiny Duck
    show me the study moron

    the burden of proof is on YOU
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  52. @Rurik

    In 1954, 30-35% of 1800 polled Californian college students reported having experienced sex with an adult as a child
     
    that had to have been in Hollywood

    perceptions of child-adult sex are not realistic and that harm is not pervasive.
     
    first what's a "child"

    as someone mentioned, our society castigates female school teachers for liaisons with their (adolescent) male students. The punishment isn't for any harm to the boy, but rather because the teacher broke a bond of trust with the parents not to 'go there'.

    No one cares if a grown women has sex with a fourteen year old boy. (Least of all the boy!)

    And no one (outside strict religious households) really care if a nineteen year old has a sexual relationship with a fourteen year old, so long as they're both equally mature and it's all consensual, and especially if they're married.

    the real issue is with those afflicted monsters (probably molested as children themselves) who prey on undeveloped children. I've seen thirteen year olds who look sexually mature, and if my sixteen year old son noticed them, I wouldn't be alarmed. (then again, if the thirteen year old was my daughter, perhaps I'd feel differently ; )

    but the whole point is adults who would prey on children. Like kids, you know. Ten, or eleven or six. And what to do about these monsters.

    I mentioned sex dolls, and perhaps there really is no harm, no foul. But the idea is so viscerally disturbing, that even then you want to pretend such revolting creatures don't even exist. But they do. (remember the soldier who had to be chastised for not tolerating the Afghan man having a sex-slave boy chained to his bed?)

    if they use a doll or a cartoon image, I suppose they ought to be allowed. From what I understand, there are men who abuse sex dolls and beat the hell out of them for sexual gratification. So there are some twisted and disturbing things going on in the human psyche for sure.

    but if a man abuses a child, like a ten year old for instance, then there is no such thing as consensual, and I'll just post a picture that's worth a thousand words..

    http://www.thesundaily.my/sites/default/files/thesun/Catalogue/2017-08-14T082744Z_47183347.jpg

    No one cares if a grown women has sex with a fourteen year old boy. (Least of all the boy!)

    Not so. I care, and if other people don’t care then they really ought to.

    Every time another one of these female-teacher/male-student stories hits the headlines, the comments sections of the various media are deluged with people sounding off to the effect of, “There is no crime here. We are talking about a sexually mature individual of 14. All that happened was that the boy got the thrill of a lifetime, and anyway you cannot rape the willing (i.e. a male must be sexually aroused to the point of having an erection before he can have sex, and therefore he must be ‘willing’).”

    Now, all of this is either ridiculous or deeply perverted, but it is readily repeated by a whole chorus of White Knights who are anxious to excuse away the woman’s evil act.

    Let us first examine the idea that a female simply cannot, by definition, sexually abuse a male. This is an absurd belief that flies in the face of all human experience. Woman are very artful at using sex to manipulate men, to hurt and wound them, and to get whatever they want out of them. All of this is also a form of sexual abuse. To say that the teacher was incapable of abusing the boy is as much to say that no woman has ever used a man’s own sexuality against him, or as a means to some other end. And a more patently untrue statement could scarcely be formulated.

    As far as “not raping the willing,” let’s be realistic here. At the age of 14 most boys can get an erection at the merest hint of anything feminine, whether they really want to or not. It would be easy for the teacher to spring the boys into action by flirting, touching, and showing some skin. Then suppose the boys go through with the act, due to the nature of the sexual urge. Does that mean they were fully “willing”? Of course not, for that would be as much to say that no man ever gratified his sexual nature with a woman and then regretted and abhorred it later, which is another patently untrue statement.

    Furthermore, contrary to what is often implied about 14-year-old boys, they do not all have the notion of banging a teacher and then going home and playing Xbox as if nothing had happened as their chief objective in life. The idea that this was nothing more than “the thrill of a lifetime” is insulting to the moral character of these boys. Adolescence is a time of strong, burgeoning sexual desire, but it is also a time of great idealism, faith, intellectual joy, and curiosity about the meaning of life. It is hardly uncommon for young men to feel like their stirrings towards women are somehow connecting them to a greater reality (and they’re right). Half of all the love poetry in the world plays upon this theme. Sure, the boys want to have sex, but some of them also want to be men as well. They want to be husbands and fathers; they want to do right by their families; they want to be heroes and winners. These are all things they are almost certain not to attain through their dalliance with the teacher, and if she held out a promise of this as a means of getting to the boy, that is one of the worst forms of sexual abuse I can think of. Suppose the young man already came from a troubled home and was very sensitive to the actions of mother-figures? What kind of pain can compare to being deceived by yet another “mom”?

    And then there are all the social effects of the scandal once it becomes known. What of the other boys and girls at the school? What of the other teachers? What jealousies, suspicions, and constrained behaviors will result from this? Will good people be somewhat deterred from pursuing a teaching career the more this goes on? Probably. Will parents be less sanguine about sending their kids to school? Again, probably. There isn’t anything good that results from such a scandal, just a broadening circle of disappointment, cynicism, and brokenness.

    To round it all off, it also needs to be said that premarital or extramarital sex between any man and woman, regardless of the other circumstances involved, is itself not something to be merely waved away. It is wrong in and of itself. It does not violate the Natural Law, but it does degrade the sanctity of the human soul and it destroys the bonds that hold families and societies together.

    The ultimate answer to all of this is chastity. The perfect chastity of priests and religious, and the imperfect chastity of married people living out the duties of holy matrimony. It is not to be found in laws, in ages of consent, or in anything else but the intentions of people to do rightly, assisted by the grace of God.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Truth
    I.D. This is a good post. I knew you had it in you.
    , @Rurik



    No one cares if a grown women has sex with a fourteen year old boy. (Least of all the boy!)
     
    Not so. I care, and if other people don’t care then they really ought to.

    Every time another one of these female-teacher/male-student
     
    Well, not for nothing, but I specifically already stated that for a teacher to have sex with a student, no matter the gender or age, is wrong, because it violates the trust put in the teacher by the parents and community.

    So I was specifically not talking about a teacher, but rather a sexually attractive woman who gave a boy "the thrill of a lifetime", as you put it.

    Will parents be less sanguine about sending their kids to school? Again, probably.
     
    good!

    the public schools are rat-holes of politically correct indoctrination. Soul-numbing factories of moral and spiritual and political conformity. Any kid who makes it out with his individuality intact is a miracle child.

    Home school your children if you want them to be healthy and educated and still have their individuality and conscience intact.

    premarital or extramarital sex between any man and woman, regardless of the other circumstances involved, is itself not something to be merely waved away. It is wrong in and of itself.
     
    I don't agree. I've been an unrepentant fornicator since I was a young teenager, and I have zero regrets

    But I also respect your belief systems and your right to relay those to your children. Much of what you're talking about vis-a-vis the deep spiritual meaning of love and a relationship, I whole-heartedly agree with. There is nothing on this earth like a true, loving tender relationship between a man and a women, and you're also right that this, and the families that surround such healthy relationships are the glue that holds a society together.

    But I disagree with your ridged take on pre-marital sex, as chastity was simply not an option for many healthy young people full of passions and hormones and yes, love. It often has a way of finding mortal expression, societal restraints notwithstanding, and I wouldn't condemn my children for falling short of your dogmas if they faltered in their fealty to your religions ideals.
    , @Dumbo
    Good comment. I used to think as mentioned in your first paragraph but you make good points.

    In general, I think that innocence (in sexual terms) is a good thing, and it is good that it is preserved until as late as possible, instead of being destroyed earlier and earlier.

    Biologically, many boys and girls could be prepared for sex as early as 13. But biology is not all, and it's certainly not the best rule for civilized behavior. We should strive to be better, not worse.

    As for porn, I think the exact opposite of Fred, I think it should (ideally) be forbidden or at least much more limited in all its manifestations. Of course this may be impossible, but, still...

    Perhaps nothing in contemporary culture has been as negative as the ubiquity (of all kinds of) porn. It has destroyed relationships, created extremely false expectations, and even generated a "pornification" of culture (you even hear now terms such as "science porn", "word porn", etc, as if "porn" was a good thing).

    I think we have only started to see the consequences of that problem. And when we get to virtual reality (which, let's face it, it's going to be used 90% for porn) and other new technologies, it's going to be even worse.
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  53. @SMK
    Sex crime laws in the U.S. are insane and execrable and hideously draconian. The U.S. is sui generis in its lunacy and hysteria over sex between adults and pubescent teenagers under statutory age. Women teachers who have love affairs and trysts with biological men under age 18 are punished more harshly than male criminals, including recidivists with histories of crime and violence beginning at age 13 or 14, convicted of aggravated assaults, muggings, armed robberies, gang-shootings, even murder. A woman in Nevada was just sentenced to life in prison for allegedly "forcing" a young man of 13 to touch her breast! The sentence was mandatory when she was convicted, by a jury, of this heinous and unspeakable crime. I could go on and on. I suggest you visit my website and read the articles and blog-posts.

    Women teachers who have love affairs and trysts with biological men under age 18 are punished more harshly… A woman in Nevada was just sentenced to life in prison for allegedly “forcing” a young man of 13 to touch her breast!

    These women teachers should keep their tits under cover, and they deserve to be punished for sheer stupidity.

    Read More
    • Replies: @SMK
    In a sane and just and rational society, teachers can be punished, non-criminally, by dismissal and revocation of their licenses and expulsion from the profession. Or, at worst, charged with a misdemeanor, however defined, and sentenced to 3-6 months of probation (and/or house-arrest) and perhaps 50-100 hours of community service: no prison, no jail, no "sex-offender treatment," no quasi-totalitarian supervision, no electronic parole monitoring with an ankle-tether/"bracelet," no registration for life as a uniquely deviant and dangerous criminal, their mug-shots, names, and addresses on the internet for all to see and often send them hate-mail and death-threats of even resort to vigilante "justice." All of this is draconian, grotesquely so, and "cruel and unusual punishment" in the sense of being wholly gratuitous, completely unnecessary to protect anyone from anything.
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  54. RobinG says:
    @Rurik

    I vote for
     
    what a pathetic joke

    you've not only contributed nothing to the conversation, you've done so behind the cowardly cloak of 'Anon'

    some pictures are indeed worth a thousand words (like the one with our sniveling congress gushing over Bibi, hectoring our president from our own capital. That one is a doozy! ; )

    I suspect that Mr. Unz doesn't want his site to be a dry and hoary crypt of doddering academic highbrow. At least not exclusively.

    It lightens things up and opens the mental pathways to refreshing diversions for the discussions to follow questions of ethics and current news, events, ect.. I would posit.

    Humbly. As Ron tolerates some of our occasional transgressions of decorum. ;)

    Dearest Rurik,

    The departed Razib Khan is the closest this site has gotten to “a dry and hoary crypt of doddering academic highbrow.” In my estimation, UR is unreservedly populist. Those who find it arcane only reveal the deplorable superficiality of general discourse.

    Read More
    • Agree: Rurik
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  55. Truth says:
    @John Jeremiah Smith

    This is almost exclusively a white male problem

    A solution to stop the problem is to closely monitor white men at all times
     
    No, the rates are higher among negros, mexicans and asians. Go look it up.

    LOL, you first.

    Read More
    • Replies: @John Jeremiah Smith
    Laugh Out Loud: nyaa, nyaa na naaa nyaaa.

    Rolling On Floor Laughing My Ass Off.




    PS: Yes, the stats are higher for those groups. Yes, I DID look it up.
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  56. RobinG says:
    @Rurik

    In 1954, 30-35% of 1800 polled Californian college students reported having experienced sex with an adult as a child
     
    that had to have been in Hollywood

    perceptions of child-adult sex are not realistic and that harm is not pervasive.
     
    first what's a "child"

    as someone mentioned, our society castigates female school teachers for liaisons with their (adolescent) male students. The punishment isn't for any harm to the boy, but rather because the teacher broke a bond of trust with the parents not to 'go there'.

    No one cares if a grown women has sex with a fourteen year old boy. (Least of all the boy!)

    And no one (outside strict religious households) really care if a nineteen year old has a sexual relationship with a fourteen year old, so long as they're both equally mature and it's all consensual, and especially if they're married.

    the real issue is with those afflicted monsters (probably molested as children themselves) who prey on undeveloped children. I've seen thirteen year olds who look sexually mature, and if my sixteen year old son noticed them, I wouldn't be alarmed. (then again, if the thirteen year old was my daughter, perhaps I'd feel differently ; )

    but the whole point is adults who would prey on children. Like kids, you know. Ten, or eleven or six. And what to do about these monsters.

    I mentioned sex dolls, and perhaps there really is no harm, no foul. But the idea is so viscerally disturbing, that even then you want to pretend such revolting creatures don't even exist. But they do. (remember the soldier who had to be chastised for not tolerating the Afghan man having a sex-slave boy chained to his bed?)

    if they use a doll or a cartoon image, I suppose they ought to be allowed. From what I understand, there are men who abuse sex dolls and beat the hell out of them for sexual gratification. So there are some twisted and disturbing things going on in the human psyche for sure.

    but if a man abuses a child, like a ten year old for instance, then there is no such thing as consensual, and I'll just post a picture that's worth a thousand words..

    http://www.thesundaily.my/sites/default/files/thesun/Catalogue/2017-08-14T082744Z_47183347.jpg

    No one cares if a grown women has sex with a fourteen year old boy. (Least of all the boy!)

    And no one (outside strict religious households) really care if a nineteen year old has a sexual relationship with a fourteen year old, so long as they’re both equally mature and it’s all consensual, and especially if they’re married.

    Actually, both of those are statutory rape, as would be sex between 2 under-age adolescents.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rurik

    statutory rape, as would be sex between 2 under-age adolescents.
     
    perhaps so Robin, but let me ask you..

    would you want to arrest and prosecute a fifteen year old boy and girl who're deeply in love and who had just consummated their love for each other, (even without permission) with every intention of staying together for the rest of their lives?

    And then if caught, would you drag them though the courts and give them permanent records as sexual offenders because they allowed their love for each other to take it's earthy course?

    perhaps send them to juvenile facilities for a few years until they turned eighteen?

    Some of the most tender and passionate and honest and pure and deeply touching love I've ever experienced was as a teenager. Before your heart begins to harden with all the mendacity and corruption of the world of the 'grownups'. And you realize the incessant one-upmanship of adult relationships, and the chicanery and deceit and cynicism.

    Before all that sets in, and you're still idealistic, and you believe that love is as pure as it looks in the eyes staring back into yours, and the tenderness and honestly and passion of the endless kisses, that can last for hours, but never long enough. When your every thought is for her, and your body trembles at the sight of her (even the thought of her), and you'd kill anyone who harms her in anyway.

    Sure, it's what's called 'puppy love' perhaps, but it's more honest and deeply felt than any adult love I've known or even read about in poems or sonnets. Even if I've chased it from time to time as an adult, it's when I'm at my luckiest, is when I've come closest to experiencing that kind love for another human being.
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  57. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Rurik

    I vote for
     
    what a pathetic joke

    you've not only contributed nothing to the conversation, you've done so behind the cowardly cloak of 'Anon'

    some pictures are indeed worth a thousand words (like the one with our sniveling congress gushing over Bibi, hectoring our president from our own capital. That one is a doozy! ; )

    I suspect that Mr. Unz doesn't want his site to be a dry and hoary crypt of doddering academic highbrow. At least not exclusively.

    It lightens things up and opens the mental pathways to refreshing diversions for the discussions to follow questions of ethics and current news, events, ect.. I would posit.

    Humbly. As Ron tolerates some of our occasional transgressions of decorum. ;)

    Brave Rurik, if the shoe fits, then wear it.

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  58. @Truth
    LOL, you first.

    Laugh Out Loud: nyaa, nyaa na naaa nyaaa.

    Rolling On Floor Laughing My Ass Off.

    PS: Yes, the stats are higher for those groups. Yes, I DID look it up.

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  59. Tiny Duck says:
    @John Jeremiah Smith

    This is almost exclusively a white male problem

    A solution to stop the problem is to closely monitor white men at all times
     
    No, the rates are higher among negros, mexicans and asians. Go look it up.

    show me the study moron

    the burden of proof is on YOU

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon

    show me the study moron
     
    As requested, the study moron: http://www.unz.com/comments/all/?commenterfilter=Tiny+Duck

    Not to be confused with the studly moron.
    , @John Jeremiah Smith
    LOL. Whenever anybody says "the burden of proof is on you", you know for sure he's talking out his ass.
    , @1RW
    No moron, the burden of proof is on you. You made an inflammatory, general statement without an ounce of support. The burden is on you.
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  60. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Tiny Duck
    show me the study moron

    the burden of proof is on YOU

    show me the study moron

    As requested, the study moron: http://www.unz.com/comments/all/?commenterfilter=Tiny+Duck

    Not to be confused with the studly moron.

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  61. TWS says:
    @SMK
    Sex crime laws in the U.S. are insane and execrable and hideously draconian. The U.S. is sui generis in its lunacy and hysteria over sex between adults and pubescent teenagers under statutory age. Women teachers who have love affairs and trysts with biological men under age 18 are punished more harshly than male criminals, including recidivists with histories of crime and violence beginning at age 13 or 14, convicted of aggravated assaults, muggings, armed robberies, gang-shootings, even murder. A woman in Nevada was just sentenced to life in prison for allegedly "forcing" a young man of 13 to touch her breast! The sentence was mandatory when she was convicted, by a jury, of this heinous and unspeakable crime. I could go on and on. I suggest you visit my website and read the articles and blog-posts.

    Ok Humbert settle down and quit huffing.

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  62. TWS says:
    @Anonymous
    So what to do?

    Most child pornography doesn't seem to have a dimension warranting legal intervention. A good portion of it is self produced masturbation videos where a child displays their sexuality to others. Another slice of the pie is nude and non-nude modeling which is also volitional and pays money. Then there is child sex in which the child is normally either an active participant, or relaxed and passive. We're left with a sliver of content in which the child is distressed and experiencing harm.

    Yeah, we forgot to add hang people who make excuses for kiddie fiddlers.

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  63. @Tiny Duck
    show me the study moron

    the burden of proof is on YOU

    LOL. Whenever anybody says “the burden of proof is on you”, you know for sure he’s talking out his ass.

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  64. TWS says:
    @Greg Bacon
    Since part of this toxic problem is over population, where parents pimp out a child so they can feed the rest, then it's time for those responsible to step up and help stop this downward spiral, like the Vatican.

    Even though its filled with misogynists and homosexuals, the Vatican has been able to dictate to Christian women for century's that they must NOT use birth control of any kind, since that is a mortal sin. Whereas with all the homosexual activity in that hot bed of corruption, with cardinals and bishops hopping in bed with male prostitutes must only be a venial sin--Yes, I'm a recovering Catholic.

    So time to strip the Vatican of some of that loot they've looted over the centuries to help pay not only for food for the Catholic poor, but also for birth control to be sanctified and no longer a sin, since if there is a God, then I'm guessing he/she/it would tend to view the use of birth control in a much less harsh light than letting kids starve to death and perform in kiddie porn pics.

    Yeah so it’s allow people to enslave and rape kids or let them starve. Why am I not seeing another path that doesn’t rely on pimping kids or starving them? Try thinking outside the child rapist box.

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  65. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Logan
    Most of the 3rd World, outside Africa, is already using birth control.

    Philippines, for instance, is at 2.94 Total Fertility Rate, down from 7+ in 1960. Thailand, not too far away, is at 1.50!

    2.1, of course, is replacement rate. Anything less leads to eventual decline in population.

    With 7.44 billion people on the planet, we can decline for 200 years and still be straining the planet’s resources. Population decline is not a worry. Besides, it tends to fix itself eventually. When you had vast empty continents like the US in the 1600s, the settlers could have 10 kids per family without a problem. Realistically speaking, we need to get our numbers down to have a better-run and more livable planet.

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  66. TWS says:
    @anon
    In 1954, 30-35% of 1800 polled Californian college students reported having experienced sex with an adult as a child (Landis). Furthermore, Rind's meta-study into the personal outcomes of participants of child sex has repeatedly been replicated by various authors. The conclusion is consistently that perceptions of child-adult sex are not realistic and that harm is not pervasive.

    My view is that these sexual relationships were somewhat common but not talked about before the 1980s, which is the point in history when academic feminism and child protection became the dominant voice in the discourse of child sexuality . At this time satanic panic took hold, and visible friendships and states of attachment between extrafamilial adults and children became unacceptable.

    Children cannot learn advanced manners and ways of communicating, nor expand their world concept in the cold reptile farm known as the classroom. These things take a real relationship with an adult, whether a devoted parent, or a friend the child has discovered on their own. No wonder each generation seem coarsened.

    I am 100% sure the study and survey are deeply flawed. Of course perverts always want people to affirm their perversions.

    Read More
    • Replies: @RobinG
    A great and almost universally pervasive flaw is the failure to distinguish between children (i.e. pre-pubescent) and adolescents. I'm willing to bet the alleged Landis study included the latter. If the 30-35% figure is true, what percentage do you guess were 17 year olds dating "adult" college kids? Furthermore, "anon" chose to blur the subject between sexual exploitation and friendship. Creepy.

    While I have huge respect for Ron Unz's free speech policy, I'm not a fan of his tolerance for "anonymous" posting. Why isn't it enough to pick an alias? Hopefully, just as he purged the multiple pseudonyms, he'll change his mind one day.
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  67. Truth says:
    @SMK
    Sex crime laws in the U.S. are insane and execrable and hideously draconian. The U.S. is sui generis in its lunacy and hysteria over sex between adults and pubescent teenagers under statutory age. Women teachers who have love affairs and trysts with biological men under age 18 are punished more harshly than male criminals, including recidivists with histories of crime and violence beginning at age 13 or 14, convicted of aggravated assaults, muggings, armed robberies, gang-shootings, even murder. A woman in Nevada was just sentenced to life in prison for allegedly "forcing" a young man of 13 to touch her breast! The sentence was mandatory when she was convicted, by a jury, of this heinous and unspeakable crime. I could go on and on. I suggest you visit my website and read the articles and blog-posts.

    A woman in Nevada was just sentenced to life in prison for allegedly “forcing” a young man of 13 to touch her breast!

    I would doubt this happenned.

    Read More
    • Replies: @SMK
    Are you saying I'm lying or delusional? That I invented or imagined this? Search the internet and you'll find many articles and news stories about this outrage.
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  68. Truth says:
    @Intelligent Dasein

    No one cares if a grown women has sex with a fourteen year old boy. (Least of all the boy!)
     
    Not so. I care, and if other people don't care then they really ought to.

    Every time another one of these female-teacher/male-student stories hits the headlines, the comments sections of the various media are deluged with people sounding off to the effect of, "There is no crime here. We are talking about a sexually mature individual of 14. All that happened was that the boy got the thrill of a lifetime, and anyway you cannot rape the willing (i.e. a male must be sexually aroused to the point of having an erection before he can have sex, and therefore he must be 'willing')."

    Now, all of this is either ridiculous or deeply perverted, but it is readily repeated by a whole chorus of White Knights who are anxious to excuse away the woman's evil act.

    Let us first examine the idea that a female simply cannot, by definition, sexually abuse a male. This is an absurd belief that flies in the face of all human experience. Woman are very artful at using sex to manipulate men, to hurt and wound them, and to get whatever they want out of them. All of this is also a form of sexual abuse. To say that the teacher was incapable of abusing the boy is as much to say that no woman has ever used a man's own sexuality against him, or as a means to some other end. And a more patently untrue statement could scarcely be formulated.

    As far as "not raping the willing," let's be realistic here. At the age of 14 most boys can get an erection at the merest hint of anything feminine, whether they really want to or not. It would be easy for the teacher to spring the boys into action by flirting, touching, and showing some skin. Then suppose the boys go through with the act, due to the nature of the sexual urge. Does that mean they were fully "willing"? Of course not, for that would be as much to say that no man ever gratified his sexual nature with a woman and then regretted and abhorred it later, which is another patently untrue statement.

    Furthermore, contrary to what is often implied about 14-year-old boys, they do not all have the notion of banging a teacher and then going home and playing Xbox as if nothing had happened as their chief objective in life. The idea that this was nothing more than "the thrill of a lifetime" is insulting to the moral character of these boys. Adolescence is a time of strong, burgeoning sexual desire, but it is also a time of great idealism, faith, intellectual joy, and curiosity about the meaning of life. It is hardly uncommon for young men to feel like their stirrings towards women are somehow connecting them to a greater reality (and they're right). Half of all the love poetry in the world plays upon this theme. Sure, the boys want to have sex, but some of them also want to be men as well. They want to be husbands and fathers; they want to do right by their families; they want to be heroes and winners. These are all things they are almost certain not to attain through their dalliance with the teacher, and if she held out a promise of this as a means of getting to the boy, that is one of the worst forms of sexual abuse I can think of. Suppose the young man already came from a troubled home and was very sensitive to the actions of mother-figures? What kind of pain can compare to being deceived by yet another "mom"?

    And then there are all the social effects of the scandal once it becomes known. What of the other boys and girls at the school? What of the other teachers? What jealousies, suspicions, and constrained behaviors will result from this? Will good people be somewhat deterred from pursuing a teaching career the more this goes on? Probably. Will parents be less sanguine about sending their kids to school? Again, probably. There isn't anything good that results from such a scandal, just a broadening circle of disappointment, cynicism, and brokenness.

    To round it all off, it also needs to be said that premarital or extramarital sex between any man and woman, regardless of the other circumstances involved, is itself not something to be merely waved away. It is wrong in and of itself. It does not violate the Natural Law, but it does degrade the sanctity of the human soul and it destroys the bonds that hold families and societies together.

    The ultimate answer to all of this is chastity. The perfect chastity of priests and religious, and the imperfect chastity of married people living out the duties of holy matrimony. It is not to be found in laws, in ages of consent, or in anything else but the intentions of people to do rightly, assisted by the grace of God.

    I.D. This is a good post. I knew you had it in you.

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  69. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @anon
    In 1954, 30-35% of 1800 polled Californian college students reported having experienced sex with an adult as a child (Landis). Furthermore, Rind's meta-study into the personal outcomes of participants of child sex has repeatedly been replicated by various authors. The conclusion is consistently that perceptions of child-adult sex are not realistic and that harm is not pervasive.

    My view is that these sexual relationships were somewhat common but not talked about before the 1980s, which is the point in history when academic feminism and child protection became the dominant voice in the discourse of child sexuality . At this time satanic panic took hold, and visible friendships and states of attachment between extrafamilial adults and children became unacceptable.

    Children cannot learn advanced manners and ways of communicating, nor expand their world concept in the cold reptile farm known as the classroom. These things take a real relationship with an adult, whether a devoted parent, or a friend the child has discovered on their own. No wonder each generation seem coarsened.

    California was populated by a lot of people who, for some reason or other, couldn’t make it further east. Sometimes it was because they were run out of their own communities for deviant behavior. A lot of people bolted to California in pioneering days to escape the law, and their behavior towards their children and grandchildren was less than normal.

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  70. RobinG says:
    @TWS
    I am 100% sure the study and survey are deeply flawed. Of course perverts always want people to affirm their perversions.

    A great and almost universally pervasive flaw is the failure to distinguish between children (i.e. pre-pubescent) and adolescents. I’m willing to bet the alleged Landis study included the latter. If the 30-35% figure is true, what percentage do you guess were 17 year olds dating “adult” college kids? Furthermore, “anon” chose to blur the subject between sexual exploitation and friendship. Creepy.

    While I have huge respect for Ron Unz’s free speech policy, I’m not a fan of his tolerance for “anonymous” posting. Why isn’t it enough to pick an alias? Hopefully, just as he purged the multiple pseudonyms, he’ll change his mind one day.

    Read More
    • Replies: @John Jeremiah Smith

    While I have huge respect for Ron Unz’s free speech policy, I’m not a fan of his tolerance for “anonymous” posting. Why isn’t it enough to pick an alias? Hopefully, just as he purged the multiple pseudonyms, he’ll change his mind one day.
     
    On the other hand, I have huge respect for Ron Unz's free speech policy, and I value his wide-latitude "Anonymous" policy.

    As you probably realized as soon as you read the first sentence, this also means I believe you to be an obsessive, controlling person who wants to inflict his/her values and beliefs on other people. You could counteract this statement of my opinion just a teensy bit by posting your complete real name, address and phone number, you hypocritical jackass.
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  71. Rurik says:
    @Intelligent Dasein

    No one cares if a grown women has sex with a fourteen year old boy. (Least of all the boy!)
     
    Not so. I care, and if other people don't care then they really ought to.

    Every time another one of these female-teacher/male-student stories hits the headlines, the comments sections of the various media are deluged with people sounding off to the effect of, "There is no crime here. We are talking about a sexually mature individual of 14. All that happened was that the boy got the thrill of a lifetime, and anyway you cannot rape the willing (i.e. a male must be sexually aroused to the point of having an erection before he can have sex, and therefore he must be 'willing')."

    Now, all of this is either ridiculous or deeply perverted, but it is readily repeated by a whole chorus of White Knights who are anxious to excuse away the woman's evil act.

    Let us first examine the idea that a female simply cannot, by definition, sexually abuse a male. This is an absurd belief that flies in the face of all human experience. Woman are very artful at using sex to manipulate men, to hurt and wound them, and to get whatever they want out of them. All of this is also a form of sexual abuse. To say that the teacher was incapable of abusing the boy is as much to say that no woman has ever used a man's own sexuality against him, or as a means to some other end. And a more patently untrue statement could scarcely be formulated.

    As far as "not raping the willing," let's be realistic here. At the age of 14 most boys can get an erection at the merest hint of anything feminine, whether they really want to or not. It would be easy for the teacher to spring the boys into action by flirting, touching, and showing some skin. Then suppose the boys go through with the act, due to the nature of the sexual urge. Does that mean they were fully "willing"? Of course not, for that would be as much to say that no man ever gratified his sexual nature with a woman and then regretted and abhorred it later, which is another patently untrue statement.

    Furthermore, contrary to what is often implied about 14-year-old boys, they do not all have the notion of banging a teacher and then going home and playing Xbox as if nothing had happened as their chief objective in life. The idea that this was nothing more than "the thrill of a lifetime" is insulting to the moral character of these boys. Adolescence is a time of strong, burgeoning sexual desire, but it is also a time of great idealism, faith, intellectual joy, and curiosity about the meaning of life. It is hardly uncommon for young men to feel like their stirrings towards women are somehow connecting them to a greater reality (and they're right). Half of all the love poetry in the world plays upon this theme. Sure, the boys want to have sex, but some of them also want to be men as well. They want to be husbands and fathers; they want to do right by their families; they want to be heroes and winners. These are all things they are almost certain not to attain through their dalliance with the teacher, and if she held out a promise of this as a means of getting to the boy, that is one of the worst forms of sexual abuse I can think of. Suppose the young man already came from a troubled home and was very sensitive to the actions of mother-figures? What kind of pain can compare to being deceived by yet another "mom"?

    And then there are all the social effects of the scandal once it becomes known. What of the other boys and girls at the school? What of the other teachers? What jealousies, suspicions, and constrained behaviors will result from this? Will good people be somewhat deterred from pursuing a teaching career the more this goes on? Probably. Will parents be less sanguine about sending their kids to school? Again, probably. There isn't anything good that results from such a scandal, just a broadening circle of disappointment, cynicism, and brokenness.

    To round it all off, it also needs to be said that premarital or extramarital sex between any man and woman, regardless of the other circumstances involved, is itself not something to be merely waved away. It is wrong in and of itself. It does not violate the Natural Law, but it does degrade the sanctity of the human soul and it destroys the bonds that hold families and societies together.

    The ultimate answer to all of this is chastity. The perfect chastity of priests and religious, and the imperfect chastity of married people living out the duties of holy matrimony. It is not to be found in laws, in ages of consent, or in anything else but the intentions of people to do rightly, assisted by the grace of God.

    No one cares if a grown women has sex with a fourteen year old boy. (Least of all the boy!)

    Not so. I care, and if other people don’t care then they really ought to.

    Every time another one of these female-teacher/male-student

    Well, not for nothing, but I specifically already stated that for a teacher to have sex with a student, no matter the gender or age, is wrong, because it violates the trust put in the teacher by the parents and community.

    So I was specifically not talking about a teacher, but rather a sexually attractive woman who gave a boy “the thrill of a lifetime”, as you put it.

    Will parents be less sanguine about sending their kids to school? Again, probably.

    good!

    the public schools are rat-holes of politically correct indoctrination. Soul-numbing factories of moral and spiritual and political conformity. Any kid who makes it out with his individuality intact is a miracle child.

    Home school your children if you want them to be healthy and educated and still have their individuality and conscience intact.

    premarital or extramarital sex between any man and woman, regardless of the other circumstances involved, is itself not something to be merely waved away. It is wrong in and of itself.

    I don’t agree. I’ve been an unrepentant fornicator since I was a young teenager, and I have zero regrets

    But I also respect your belief systems and your right to relay those to your children. Much of what you’re talking about vis-a-vis the deep spiritual meaning of love and a relationship, I whole-heartedly agree with. There is nothing on this earth like a true, loving tender relationship between a man and a women, and you’re also right that this, and the families that surround such healthy relationships are the glue that holds a society together.

    But I disagree with your ridged take on pre-marital sex, as chastity was simply not an option for many healthy young people full of passions and hormones and yes, love. It often has a way of finding mortal expression, societal restraints notwithstanding, and I wouldn’t condemn my children for falling short of your dogmas if they faltered in their fealty to your religions ideals.

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  72. Rurik says:
    @RobinG

    No one cares if a grown women has sex with a fourteen year old boy. (Least of all the boy!)

    And no one (outside strict religious households) really care if a nineteen year old has a sexual relationship with a fourteen year old, so long as they’re both equally mature and it’s all consensual, and especially if they’re married.
     
    Actually, both of those are statutory rape, as would be sex between 2 under-age adolescents.

    statutory rape, as would be sex between 2 under-age adolescents.

    perhaps so Robin, but let me ask you..

    would you want to arrest and prosecute a fifteen year old boy and girl who’re deeply in love and who had just consummated their love for each other, (even without permission) with every intention of staying together for the rest of their lives?

    And then if caught, would you drag them though the courts and give them permanent records as sexual offenders because they allowed their love for each other to take it’s earthy course?

    perhaps send them to juvenile facilities for a few years until they turned eighteen?

    Some of the most tender and passionate and honest and pure and deeply touching love I’ve ever experienced was as a teenager. Before your heart begins to harden with all the mendacity and corruption of the world of the ‘grownups’. And you realize the incessant one-upmanship of adult relationships, and the chicanery and deceit and cynicism.

    Before all that sets in, and you’re still idealistic, and you believe that love is as pure as it looks in the eyes staring back into yours, and the tenderness and honestly and passion of the endless kisses, that can last for hours, but never long enough. When your every thought is for her, and your body trembles at the sight of her (even the thought of her), and you’d kill anyone who harms her in anyway.

    Sure, it’s what’s called ‘puppy love’ perhaps, but it’s more honest and deeply felt than any adult love I’ve known or even read about in poems or sonnets. Even if I’ve chased it from time to time as an adult, it’s when I’m at my luckiest, is when I’ve come closest to experiencing that kind love for another human being.

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    • Replies: @RobinG
    You're hilarious. That kind of pure love (as her mother would have told you) doesn't require fornication. And as for [huge eye roll] youthful idealism, how sweet for you.

    (I almost posted a memorable conversation from the in-crowd lunch table at my HS, but thought better of it.)
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  73. notanon says:
    @Logan
    No male should get aroused by a kid because they don’t smell like a 20 year old woman.

    Doing good till this sentence.

    The scent thing happens at puberty, which is getting younger and younger. A 13 year old girl who is past puberty is from a physical standpoint fully a woman.

    Our prohibitions on sex before 16 or 18 or whatever, which which I agree, BTW, are based on social conventions, not anything to do with physical or medical reality.

    The scent thing happens at puberty, which is getting younger and younger. A 13 year old girl who is past puberty is from a physical standpoint fully a woman.

    puberty is occurring below the natural age because of the pozzed diet – fix the diet and the average age of puberty will go back up

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  74. notanon says:
    @Logan
    No male should get aroused by a kid because they don’t smell like a 20 year old woman.

    Doing good till this sentence.

    The scent thing happens at puberty, which is getting younger and younger. A 13 year old girl who is past puberty is from a physical standpoint fully a woman.

    Our prohibitions on sex before 16 or 18 or whatever, which which I agree, BTW, are based on social conventions, not anything to do with physical or medical reality.

    Our prohibitions on sex before 16 or 18 or whatever, which which I agree, BTW, are based on social conventions, not anything to do with physical or medical reality.

    if a society wants optimal selection then children don’t make optimal decisions or parents

    it makes more sense to push average age of puberty back up to 16 or so

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  75. LauraMR says:
    @Rurik

    But leaving things as they are will, well, leave things as they are, with wretchedly bad treatment of a lot of children. Anyone have a better idea?
     
    birth control for the third world would be a great step towards preventing children in those regions from being so desperate and subject to depraved exploitation

    DNA mapping pedophiles for genetic, congenital predispositions (the British aristocracy for instance) and then screening for those traits at the zygote level for termination

    (there may be some potential future advantage for violent criminals in society, if a society ever requires a violent revolution for instance, but I can't think of even one potential advantage of having pedophiles born and/or exist)

    give them strychnine-laced child 'sex dolls'

    Or you could say it's been made legal so long as they only use the dolls, and then they could select between eight year old boys or five year old girls, and then have them walk though the 'brothel door' and fall into a pit of ravenous crocodiles or pigs or something

    ~ just trying to help out here Fred

    provocative article. Thanks

    The only solution is imprisonment. Pedophilia is a sexual orientation. There is no getting away from it.

    It should be noted that some pedophiles do not act on their orientation and, instead, embrace celibacy in the same manner as do those of other sexual orientations. There are, in fact, support organizations created by pedophiles that cater to those willing to commit to self-restraint. However, despite the “respectability” of the effort, the danger remains and it is beyond acceptable. Some form of imprisonment is required, even if in specialized centers akin to restrictive asylums.

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  76. notanon says:
    @Hu Mi Yu
    Commenters here who think viewers of kiddie porn should be shot, drowned, etc "protest too much." Latent pedophiles defend themselves against their own urges by saying such things.

    The purpose of Tor is obtaining material for blackmail and extortion. Don't use it.

    In the last century or so the age of consent has gone up and the definition of sex has expanded. It used to mean only activity involved with procreation. The medical quack Sigmund Freud changed that. Now if you dream of two mountains, that is the same as having sex with your mother.

    Sigmund had a daughter Anna who was also a psychoanalyst. According to a neighbor of mine who was the daughter of a psychiatrist, those father-daughter relationships are very common. The "good" that psychoanalysis did was to save the reputations of powerful men while releasing the daughters from asylums to which they were committed. According to her mother, psychoanalysis also provides the analyst with abundant material for extortion: something like Tor.

    As far as protecting children, we need to see that they are fed, not physically abused, and are sent to school. We can't even do this. All the blather about child sex is a distraction that only makes a bad situation worse. Why the fixation on sex?

    Commenters here who think viewers of kiddie porn should be shot, drowned, etc “protest too much.” Latent pedophiles defend themselves against their own urges by saying such things.

    1) shucks

    2) two kinds of pedophile imo: 1) those who have an unnatural attraction for some gene expression reason and 2) sociopaths who get high from getting away with extreme transgression (and torturing kids is as extreme as you can get)

    reason (2) is why there are disproportionate numbers among the political/media/financial elite imo

    The purpose of Tor is obtaining material for blackmail and extortion.

    true – it’s why porn in general is effectively free

    As far as protecting children, we need to…

    protect them from predatory adults until they are mentally mature enough to make their own decisions

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  77. notanon says:
    @jtgw
    There is some evidence that our attempts to do good in the Third World even encourage this behavior. For example, in the 1990s it emerged that successful outside attempts to make Bangladesh outlaw child labor in factories led to an increase in child prostitution. If you're going to ban child labor, you also need to pony up the income to replace the lost earnings.

    I would venture that we need more free trade (not necessarily free migration, though). I don't know about our trade policy with the Philippines but I do know that e.g. US and EU agricultural trade restrictions are almost certainly responsible for a great deal of impoverishment in poor countries where agriculture forms a huge part of the economy.

    reduce poverty by reducing over supply of labor -> reduce population

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    • Replies: @jtgw
    Or increase labor productivity.
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  78. We have the largest prison population on the planet in real and absolute terms.

    You can roll back criminal penalties for just about everything that wasn’t already recognized at the founding of our country and it would do us good.

    I imagine most men have the same “ewwww” feeling about kids and porn as I do. But I can’t look at homosexual male porn either. Or morbidly obese women, or anal sex, or bondage, or any number of other things. Abuse and sex, wow – even acting that out is more than “eeewww” for me. More like horrifying.

    But I feel no urge to jail people who get off on all that revolting stuff. And who is it that is terrified by teens dancing on camera for men with money? Not their parents, as the article points out. That’s how they can afford to eat and have more than one pair of underwear.

    The dark web – pffft. Too much effort, and I refuse to believe the government isn’t watching every click you make. They can defeat everything. There is no anonymity.

    Maybe you haven’t been caught yet. Most likely because you are a small fish and no threat to their power. You can’t be extorted for enough gain, either.

    So you are getting away with it, for now. But don’t kid yourself.

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    • Replies: @larry lurker

    The dark web – pffft. Too much effort
     
    If you know how to download, install and open a program/app and how to use a web browser, you can be on the Tor network within 90 seconds of reading this comment.

    and I refuse to believe the government isn’t watching every click you make. They can defeat everything. There is no anonymity.
     
    This might have been true 30 years ago; it's not true now. Tor might be broken as far as deanonymizing users/hidden services, i.e., being able to tell who is communicating with whom, but they can't break the encryption itself and read intercepted communications. The feds would have had a much harder time convicting Ross William Ulbricht (Silk Road) if they hadn't managed to tackle him in a library with his laptop still open.

    There's a reason the FBI is pressuring Apple to weaken its crypto; it works.

    , @Tony
    "But I can’t look at homosexual male porn either. Or morbidly obese women, or anal sex, or bondage, or any number of other things. "
    Who you trying to kid Backwoods, Most of us saw Deliverence. We know what you guys do.
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  79. notanon says:
    @Rurik

    In 1954, 30-35% of 1800 polled Californian college students reported having experienced sex with an adult as a child
     
    that had to have been in Hollywood

    perceptions of child-adult sex are not realistic and that harm is not pervasive.
     
    first what's a "child"

    as someone mentioned, our society castigates female school teachers for liaisons with their (adolescent) male students. The punishment isn't for any harm to the boy, but rather because the teacher broke a bond of trust with the parents not to 'go there'.

    No one cares if a grown women has sex with a fourteen year old boy. (Least of all the boy!)

    And no one (outside strict religious households) really care if a nineteen year old has a sexual relationship with a fourteen year old, so long as they're both equally mature and it's all consensual, and especially if they're married.

    the real issue is with those afflicted monsters (probably molested as children themselves) who prey on undeveloped children. I've seen thirteen year olds who look sexually mature, and if my sixteen year old son noticed them, I wouldn't be alarmed. (then again, if the thirteen year old was my daughter, perhaps I'd feel differently ; )

    but the whole point is adults who would prey on children. Like kids, you know. Ten, or eleven or six. And what to do about these monsters.

    I mentioned sex dolls, and perhaps there really is no harm, no foul. But the idea is so viscerally disturbing, that even then you want to pretend such revolting creatures don't even exist. But they do. (remember the soldier who had to be chastised for not tolerating the Afghan man having a sex-slave boy chained to his bed?)

    if they use a doll or a cartoon image, I suppose they ought to be allowed. From what I understand, there are men who abuse sex dolls and beat the hell out of them for sexual gratification. So there are some twisted and disturbing things going on in the human psyche for sure.

    but if a man abuses a child, like a ten year old for instance, then there is no such thing as consensual, and I'll just post a picture that's worth a thousand words..

    http://www.thesundaily.my/sites/default/files/thesun/Catalogue/2017-08-14T082744Z_47183347.jpg

    No one cares if a grown women has sex with a fourteen year old boy. (Least of all the boy!)

    it’s true men care less about it that way round but most mothers i’ve known are very hostile to it.

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  80. notanon says:
    @Priss Factor
    I don't think the real danger comes from kiddie porn. People see that for what it is. As for digi-kiddie-porn, people may be more tolerant but they would still see it for what it is: stuff for sickos and degenerates.

    The real danger comes from pornification of mainstream culture in a society where sexualization of children is the New Normal in schools and entertainment.

    Now, stuff about fecal penetration is taught to elementary school kids. Proggy parents think they are 'more evolved' because they tell their kids it's noble to bang the bung.
    Some parents allow or even push hormone therapy to their kids for eventual sex-change.

    As for entertainment, Disney is often a purveyor of sexualization of kids. Whore-ish dress is marketed to young ones.
    Ariana Grande is promoted as a positive 'role model' for kids. Black culture like 'twerking' is deemed appropriate for kids. Every kid has smartphone and send pics of genitals. An entire generation of kids grew up to Minaj and her booty shaking. What is considered wholesome is really hole-some.

    If this is okay for kids, then it means kids are sexual creatures. It means kids should be doing each other. And if kids should be doing each other, the next logical step is adults should be doing kids. I mean sex is sex, the pedos will argue.

    It is this indirect path to pedophilia that is far more insidious.

    It is this indirect path to pedophilia that is far more insidious.

    this is true – one of the side effects of people being extremely hostile to pedophilia (but not actually following through with trying to remove it form the gene pool) is they get very stealth working behind the scenes of society to get schools and media to sexualize kids for them.

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  81. notanon says:
    @Tiny Duck
    This is almost exclusively a white male problem

    A solution to stop the problem is to closely monitor white men at all times

    This is almost exclusively a white male problem

    sexual violence of all kinds is worst in gang ruled urban ghettos – so bad it’s considered normal and mostly unreported

    what is reported is still too large to admit and gets covered up by the media

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    • Replies: @Truth

    sexual violence of all kinds is worst in gang ruled urban ghettos – so bad it’s considered normal and mostly unreported
     
    Because you've spent so much time in them?
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  82. notanon says:
    @SMK
    Sex crime laws in the U.S. are insane and execrable and hideously draconian. The U.S. is sui generis in its lunacy and hysteria over sex between adults and pubescent teenagers under statutory age. Women teachers who have love affairs and trysts with biological men under age 18 are punished more harshly than male criminals, including recidivists with histories of crime and violence beginning at age 13 or 14, convicted of aggravated assaults, muggings, armed robberies, gang-shootings, even murder. A woman in Nevada was just sentenced to life in prison for allegedly "forcing" a young man of 13 to touch her breast! The sentence was mandatory when she was convicted, by a jury, of this heinous and unspeakable crime. I could go on and on. I suggest you visit my website and read the articles and blog-posts.

    A woman in Nevada was just sentenced to life in prison for allegedly “forcing” a young man of 13 to touch her breast!

    in loco parentis

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  83. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    I thought kids were exploited as a rule in the United States. “Sexual exploitation of minors” is highly prized because it is ratings garnering and politically explosive. A prurient American society that ritulistically downloads billions in addictive (legal) porn generally wants to burn inappropriate masturbators at the stake.

    Criminal justice here is a capitalist dream. The gift that keeps on giving – just like the heady profiteering of the war on drugs, the battle will never be won. There’s a pervert out there, you know it. This is why we send school teachers to prison for decades for touching a 17 year old’s ass and the FBI distributes kiddie porn in order to “get the bad guys”. Hell, if that fails they can create their own bad guys. We have a nation determined to fuck itself good, and then film it for distribution.

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    • Replies: @notanon

    I thought kids were exploited as a rule in the United States.
     
    one of the side effects of mass immigration is a gender imbalance - too many unattached males

    too many unattached males -> all kinds of bad things

    i'd guess female infanticide has a similar effect
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  84. DL42 says:

    Interesting article. I wonder if you’d be aware that in Japan, “digiporn” as you’ve described is more or less legally accepted. Hundreds of pornographic comic books featuring clearly underage characters are released and sold each year, often online. There is also a large market on video games featuring underage characters in sexual situations. Most are Visual Novels (basically interactive voiced picture books), though some are full 3D sex simulators, with characters’ every body facet customizable to your liking. VR interaction is just on the horizon for many of these as well. Only a few of these ever generate much controversy.

    I haven’t the time to research this personally, but I wonder how the rates of child sex abuse in Japan compare to the rest of the western world in light of this apparent acceptance of virtual child pornography.

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    • Replies: @anon again
    Translated Japanese lolicon comics are already very popular in the West as a choice of pornography. As of right now there are ten thousand translated comics. People who admit to reading lolicon usually deny having sexual desire for children and wish to be seen as distinct from pedophiles, even though lolicon plots are regularly set in the ordinary world. This is unfortunate because a lot of people suffer having to lie to themselves, while the comics are legally child pornography.
    , @Anonymous
    I don't know the stats on child sex abuse in particular, but isn't it true that modern Japan is notorious for men having no interest in real life sexuality at all, and just looking at porn? That is obviously very bad in its own right, but it seems to buttress the case for fake child porn as an alternative to child abuse.
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  85. jtgw says:
    @notanon
    reduce poverty by reducing over supply of labor -> reduce population

    Or increase labor productivity.

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    • Replies: @notanon
    if you already have a labor surplus does increasing productivity reduce poverty or make it worse? we'll be finding out soon if we continue open borders at the same time as increased automation.
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  86. Wally says:
    @Logan
    Most of the 3rd World, outside Africa, is already using birth control.

    Philippines, for instance, is at 2.94 Total Fertility Rate, down from 7+ in 1960. Thailand, not too far away, is at 1.50!

    2.1, of course, is replacement rate. Anything less leads to eventual decline in population.

    said:
    “Most of the 3rd World, outside Africa, is already using birth control.”

    I get it, let’s just ignore the worst of the worst, the dumbest of the dumbest, Africa.

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  87. notanon says:
    @Anonymous
    I thought kids were exploited as a rule in the United States. "Sexual exploitation of minors" is highly prized because it is ratings garnering and politically explosive. A prurient American society that ritulistically downloads billions in addictive (legal) porn generally wants to burn inappropriate masturbators at the stake.

    Criminal justice here is a capitalist dream. The gift that keeps on giving - just like the heady profiteering of the war on drugs, the battle will never be won. There's a pervert out there, you know it. This is why we send school teachers to prison for decades for touching a 17 year old's ass and the FBI distributes kiddie porn in order to "get the bad guys". Hell, if that fails they can create their own bad guys. We have a nation determined to fuck itself good, and then film it for distribution.

    I thought kids were exploited as a rule in the United States.

    one of the side effects of mass immigration is a gender imbalance – too many unattached males

    too many unattached males -> all kinds of bad things

    i’d guess female infanticide has a similar effect

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  88. notanon says:
    @jtgw
    Or increase labor productivity.

    if you already have a labor surplus does increasing productivity reduce poverty or make it worse? we’ll be finding out soon if we continue open borders at the same time as increased automation.

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    • Replies: @jtgw
    Increasing the marginal productivity of labor is the main way to increase wages, all else being equal. There are two main factors determining wages: marginal productivity of labor (how much each new worker adds to value) and bargaining power (how many individuals competing for same job). As you note, immigration on its own contributes to a downward pressure in wages in a certain sector in a certain place. However, if we hold the number of laborers constant, any increase in productivity will drive up wages, since if there is a limited pool of workers, employers will be constantly bidding up labor as far as they can afford it. What determines whether they can afford it is the marginal value of the laborer. So if you add $10 of value per hour to your employer, your employer can afford to pay you as much as that but no more. If you can add more value than that, then you can do the math.
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  89. notanon says:
    @Logan
    Most of the 3rd World, outside Africa, is already using birth control.

    Philippines, for instance, is at 2.94 Total Fertility Rate, down from 7+ in 1960. Thailand, not too far away, is at 1.50!

    2.1, of course, is replacement rate. Anything less leads to eventual decline in population.

    Most of the 3rd World, outside Africa, is already using birth control.

    right – so apart from Africa we only have to deal with the tsunami of people created by the post-war population boom due to cleaner water, better diet and medical care – and the ever reducing need for the current number of people caused by improving technology.

    we’d be going backwards because of that even if pop. growth was zero everywhere.

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    • Replies: @Logan
    Yet somehow absolute poverty in the worldhas been falling like a rock for a couple of decades now.
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  90. RobinG says:
    @Rurik

    statutory rape, as would be sex between 2 under-age adolescents.
     
    perhaps so Robin, but let me ask you..

    would you want to arrest and prosecute a fifteen year old boy and girl who're deeply in love and who had just consummated their love for each other, (even without permission) with every intention of staying together for the rest of their lives?

    And then if caught, would you drag them though the courts and give them permanent records as sexual offenders because they allowed their love for each other to take it's earthy course?

    perhaps send them to juvenile facilities for a few years until they turned eighteen?

    Some of the most tender and passionate and honest and pure and deeply touching love I've ever experienced was as a teenager. Before your heart begins to harden with all the mendacity and corruption of the world of the 'grownups'. And you realize the incessant one-upmanship of adult relationships, and the chicanery and deceit and cynicism.

    Before all that sets in, and you're still idealistic, and you believe that love is as pure as it looks in the eyes staring back into yours, and the tenderness and honestly and passion of the endless kisses, that can last for hours, but never long enough. When your every thought is for her, and your body trembles at the sight of her (even the thought of her), and you'd kill anyone who harms her in anyway.

    Sure, it's what's called 'puppy love' perhaps, but it's more honest and deeply felt than any adult love I've known or even read about in poems or sonnets. Even if I've chased it from time to time as an adult, it's when I'm at my luckiest, is when I've come closest to experiencing that kind love for another human being.

    You’re hilarious. That kind of pure love (as her mother would have told you) doesn’t require fornication. And as for [huge eye roll] youthful idealism, how sweet for you.

    (I almost posted a memorable conversation from the in-crowd lunch table at my HS, but thought better of it.)

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    • Replies: @Rurik

    [huge eye roll]
     
    so cynical
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  91. Truth says:
    @notanon

    This is almost exclusively a white male problem
     
    sexual violence of all kinds is worst in gang ruled urban ghettos - so bad it's considered normal and mostly unreported

    what is reported is still too large to admit and gets covered up by the media

    sexual violence of all kinds is worst in gang ruled urban ghettos – so bad it’s considered normal and mostly unreported

    Because you’ve spent so much time in them?

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    • Replies: @notanon
    yes
    , @notanon
    also think about it logically - what is the key element in the current Hollywood scandal - extreme power imbalance.

    what do you get in neighborhoods dominated by gangs of violent young men - extreme power imbalance.
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  92. jtgw says:
    @notanon
    if you already have a labor surplus does increasing productivity reduce poverty or make it worse? we'll be finding out soon if we continue open borders at the same time as increased automation.

    Increasing the marginal productivity of labor is the main way to increase wages, all else being equal. There are two main factors determining wages: marginal productivity of labor (how much each new worker adds to value) and bargaining power (how many individuals competing for same job). As you note, immigration on its own contributes to a downward pressure in wages in a certain sector in a certain place. However, if we hold the number of laborers constant, any increase in productivity will drive up wages, since if there is a limited pool of workers, employers will be constantly bidding up labor as far as they can afford it. What determines whether they can afford it is the marginal value of the laborer. So if you add $10 of value per hour to your employer, your employer can afford to pay you as much as that but no more. If you can add more value than that, then you can do the math.

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    • Replies: @notanon

    Increasing the marginal productivity of labor is the main way to increase wages, all else being equal.
     
    agreed but in the context of a pre-existing over supply of labor or a simultaneous increase in the supply of labor the two forces balance each other out.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/73/US_productivity_and_real_wages.jpg

    i'm all for productivity growth as it's the only real foundation for prosperity but i think you need to also constrain the labor supply to get the full benefit.
    , @Logan
    Productivity is the amount of human input required to produce a given amount of goods or services. It grows at a compound rate.

    Project that growth rate far enough and infinite goods/services are produced with zero human input (or nearly).

    We seem to be heading in that direction. No effective economic demand for the services increasing numbers of people are capable of providing.

    Situation made worse here, of course, by importing huge numbers of people to compete for the increasingly few low-skill jobs.
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  93. @Backwoods Bob
    We have the largest prison population on the planet in real and absolute terms.

    You can roll back criminal penalties for just about everything that wasn't already recognized at the founding of our country and it would do us good.

    I imagine most men have the same "ewwww" feeling about kids and porn as I do. But I can't look at homosexual male porn either. Or morbidly obese women, or anal sex, or bondage, or any number of other things. Abuse and sex, wow - even acting that out is more than "eeewww" for me. More like horrifying.

    But I feel no urge to jail people who get off on all that revolting stuff. And who is it that is terrified by teens dancing on camera for men with money? Not their parents, as the article points out. That's how they can afford to eat and have more than one pair of underwear.

    The dark web - pffft. Too much effort, and I refuse to believe the government isn't watching every click you make. They can defeat everything. There is no anonymity.

    Maybe you haven't been caught yet. Most likely because you are a small fish and no threat to their power. You can't be extorted for enough gain, either.

    So you are getting away with it, for now. But don't kid yourself.

    The dark web – pffft. Too much effort

    If you know how to download, install and open a program/app and how to use a web browser, you can be on the Tor network within 90 seconds of reading this comment.

    and I refuse to believe the government isn’t watching every click you make. They can defeat everything. There is no anonymity.

    This might have been true 30 years ago; it’s not true now. Tor might be broken as far as deanonymizing users/hidden services, i.e., being able to tell who is communicating with whom, but they can’t break the encryption itself and read intercepted communications. The feds would have had a much harder time convicting Ross William Ulbricht (Silk Road) if they hadn’t managed to tackle him in a library with his laptop still open.

    There’s a reason the FBI is pressuring Apple to weaken its crypto; it works.

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    • Replies: @Kiza
    No, crypto does not work. The commercial (as opposed to military) grade cryptography is easy to break for the governments and most of it even has mandatory back doors. It only requires resources, which means that the governments cannot monitor everybody all of the time. Has it occurred to you that the Apple crypto show is purely an obfuscation?
    , @Backwoods Bob
    That may be reasonable for you to believe, larry.

    I just can't take someone's word where prison is the consequence.

    Studying up on it just doesn't seem worth my time. I'm sure I could get on quick, yeah - but the research on the whole thing, the way the security works and so forth...

    not gonna happen.
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  94. Dumbo says:
    @Intelligent Dasein

    No one cares if a grown women has sex with a fourteen year old boy. (Least of all the boy!)
     
    Not so. I care, and if other people don't care then they really ought to.

    Every time another one of these female-teacher/male-student stories hits the headlines, the comments sections of the various media are deluged with people sounding off to the effect of, "There is no crime here. We are talking about a sexually mature individual of 14. All that happened was that the boy got the thrill of a lifetime, and anyway you cannot rape the willing (i.e. a male must be sexually aroused to the point of having an erection before he can have sex, and therefore he must be 'willing')."

    Now, all of this is either ridiculous or deeply perverted, but it is readily repeated by a whole chorus of White Knights who are anxious to excuse away the woman's evil act.

    Let us first examine the idea that a female simply cannot, by definition, sexually abuse a male. This is an absurd belief that flies in the face of all human experience. Woman are very artful at using sex to manipulate men, to hurt and wound them, and to get whatever they want out of them. All of this is also a form of sexual abuse. To say that the teacher was incapable of abusing the boy is as much to say that no woman has ever used a man's own sexuality against him, or as a means to some other end. And a more patently untrue statement could scarcely be formulated.

    As far as "not raping the willing," let's be realistic here. At the age of 14 most boys can get an erection at the merest hint of anything feminine, whether they really want to or not. It would be easy for the teacher to spring the boys into action by flirting, touching, and showing some skin. Then suppose the boys go through with the act, due to the nature of the sexual urge. Does that mean they were fully "willing"? Of course not, for that would be as much to say that no man ever gratified his sexual nature with a woman and then regretted and abhorred it later, which is another patently untrue statement.

    Furthermore, contrary to what is often implied about 14-year-old boys, they do not all have the notion of banging a teacher and then going home and playing Xbox as if nothing had happened as their chief objective in life. The idea that this was nothing more than "the thrill of a lifetime" is insulting to the moral character of these boys. Adolescence is a time of strong, burgeoning sexual desire, but it is also a time of great idealism, faith, intellectual joy, and curiosity about the meaning of life. It is hardly uncommon for young men to feel like their stirrings towards women are somehow connecting them to a greater reality (and they're right). Half of all the love poetry in the world plays upon this theme. Sure, the boys want to have sex, but some of them also want to be men as well. They want to be husbands and fathers; they want to do right by their families; they want to be heroes and winners. These are all things they are almost certain not to attain through their dalliance with the teacher, and if she held out a promise of this as a means of getting to the boy, that is one of the worst forms of sexual abuse I can think of. Suppose the young man already came from a troubled home and was very sensitive to the actions of mother-figures? What kind of pain can compare to being deceived by yet another "mom"?

    And then there are all the social effects of the scandal once it becomes known. What of the other boys and girls at the school? What of the other teachers? What jealousies, suspicions, and constrained behaviors will result from this? Will good people be somewhat deterred from pursuing a teaching career the more this goes on? Probably. Will parents be less sanguine about sending their kids to school? Again, probably. There isn't anything good that results from such a scandal, just a broadening circle of disappointment, cynicism, and brokenness.

    To round it all off, it also needs to be said that premarital or extramarital sex between any man and woman, regardless of the other circumstances involved, is itself not something to be merely waved away. It is wrong in and of itself. It does not violate the Natural Law, but it does degrade the sanctity of the human soul and it destroys the bonds that hold families and societies together.

    The ultimate answer to all of this is chastity. The perfect chastity of priests and religious, and the imperfect chastity of married people living out the duties of holy matrimony. It is not to be found in laws, in ages of consent, or in anything else but the intentions of people to do rightly, assisted by the grace of God.

    Good comment. I used to think as mentioned in your first paragraph but you make good points.

    In general, I think that innocence (in sexual terms) is a good thing, and it is good that it is preserved until as late as possible, instead of being destroyed earlier and earlier.

    Biologically, many boys and girls could be prepared for sex as early as 13. But biology is not all, and it’s certainly not the best rule for civilized behavior. We should strive to be better, not worse.

    As for porn, I think the exact opposite of Fred, I think it should (ideally) be forbidden or at least much more limited in all its manifestations. Of course this may be impossible, but, still…

    Perhaps nothing in contemporary culture has been as negative as the ubiquity (of all kinds of) porn. It has destroyed relationships, created extremely false expectations, and even generated a “pornification” of culture (you even hear now terms such as “science porn”, “word porn”, etc, as if “porn” was a good thing).

    I think we have only started to see the consequences of that problem. And when we get to virtual reality (which, let’s face it, it’s going to be used 90% for porn) and other new technologies, it’s going to be even worse.

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  95. Mario964 says:

    Fred Reed’s suggestion about the virtual pedopornography is nothing new.
    Moreover it’s just a way of classifying the perverts’ behavior as a chronic human illness that can’t be healed and therefore must be accepted under certain circumstances. Oh so handy! The usual excuse for abetting evil and offering it a free pass.

    In Japan consumption of pedoporn cartoons, anime and manga is widespread, including incestuous relationship which is quite popular.
    The law states that possession and distribution of imagery involving real children is illegal but does not outlaw similar images in manga and anime and considers manga, anime and computer graphics are outside its scope.

    From The Guardian:
    The new law’s limited reach is unlikely to change social attitudes towards the depiction of child sexual exploitation in manga and anime. Sexual imagery involving children is not difficult to find in Tokyo, where men can occasionally be seen on trains flicking through manga showing, for example, scantily clad schoolgirls.

    Egregious example of chutzpah to the maximum extent: In an attempt to safeguard artistic freedoms, the bill states that “attention should be paid in applying the law in a manner not to infringe upon the rights of the people. without due cause in relation to academic studies, cultural and artistic activities and reports”

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/05/japan-bans-real-life-child-sexual-abuse-material-but-cartoons-remain-legal

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/27/japan-urged-to-ban-manga-child-abuse-images

    No surprise from the Japanese people that up to day could never come to terms with unspeakable atrocities committed by their forefathers.

    Evil is evil is evil.

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    • Replies: @Jon Orton
    Evil might be evil but Anime isn't realistic drawing and realistic drawing isn't an actual child.

    If people are so frail minded as to believe the slippery slope to actual child expoitation is via viewing online imagery then allow me to indicate the way this slippery slope is actually going...

    In the UK in 2008 Robul Hoque was convicted of the made-up-sounding crime of producing ‘indecent pseudo-photographs’ – that is, the images were so realistic that they were almost indistinguishable from real photos. In other words he was convicted of having drawings that were quite good, even though no actual children were involved.

    In 2014 he was convicted of possessing Japanese-style manga images and anime cartoons. Several of these images depicted young girls exposing themselves and engaging in sexual acts. He was given a 9 month suspended sentence and had to register on the sex offenders list. Anime is several degrees away from 'indecent pseudo-photographs’

    That's the way the slippery slope is heading.

    How long before a stick figure is deemed to be beyond the pale? Tit-less, it'll obviously be the drawing of a prepubescent girl and if no little triangle is drawn depicting a skirt then it's a naked prepubescent girl.

    Enjoy your freedom to think what you like whilst you still can.
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  96. @DL42
    Interesting article. I wonder if you'd be aware that in Japan, "digiporn" as you've described is more or less legally accepted. Hundreds of pornographic comic books featuring clearly underage characters are released and sold each year, often online. There is also a large market on video games featuring underage characters in sexual situations. Most are Visual Novels (basically interactive voiced picture books), though some are full 3D sex simulators, with characters' every body facet customizable to your liking. VR interaction is just on the horizon for many of these as well. Only a few of these ever generate much controversy.

    I haven't the time to research this personally, but I wonder how the rates of child sex abuse in Japan compare to the rest of the western world in light of this apparent acceptance of virtual child pornography.

    Translated Japanese lolicon comics are already very popular in the West as a choice of pornography. As of right now there are ten thousand translated comics. People who admit to reading lolicon usually deny having sexual desire for children and wish to be seen as distinct from pedophiles, even though lolicon plots are regularly set in the ordinary world. This is unfortunate because a lot of people suffer having to lie to themselves, while the comics are legally child pornography.

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  97. notanon says:
    @Truth

    sexual violence of all kinds is worst in gang ruled urban ghettos – so bad it’s considered normal and mostly unreported
     
    Because you've spent so much time in them?

    yes

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  98. notanon says:
    @jtgw
    Increasing the marginal productivity of labor is the main way to increase wages, all else being equal. There are two main factors determining wages: marginal productivity of labor (how much each new worker adds to value) and bargaining power (how many individuals competing for same job). As you note, immigration on its own contributes to a downward pressure in wages in a certain sector in a certain place. However, if we hold the number of laborers constant, any increase in productivity will drive up wages, since if there is a limited pool of workers, employers will be constantly bidding up labor as far as they can afford it. What determines whether they can afford it is the marginal value of the laborer. So if you add $10 of value per hour to your employer, your employer can afford to pay you as much as that but no more. If you can add more value than that, then you can do the math.

    Increasing the marginal productivity of labor is the main way to increase wages, all else being equal.

    agreed but in the context of a pre-existing over supply of labor or a simultaneous increase in the supply of labor the two forces balance each other out.

    i’m all for productivity growth as it’s the only real foundation for prosperity but i think you need to also constrain the labor supply to get the full benefit.

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    • Replies: @jtgw
    I've seen some hard-hitting critiques of that graph, which gets passed around a lot to prove all sorts of mutually incompatible theories, i.e. middle class wage stagnation due to a) immigration b) oil shock c) abandoning gold standard d) Reagan tax cuts etc etc. I don't recall the details of the critique but basically it combines two sets of incommensurable data and doesn't represent a real correlation. Anyway I'd be careful about using it.

    The interplay of forces is more complex than you make out. For example, while immigrants in one respect bid down wages as producers, at the same time they introduce more demand as consumers, which bids up prices for goods and hence for the producers of those goods. While I think there may be good reasons to support immigration controls under current conditions, the economic arguments against immigration focus very heavily on just certain effects of increased labor supply, ignoring other effects that operate in a contrary direction.
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  99. notanon says:
    @Truth

    sexual violence of all kinds is worst in gang ruled urban ghettos – so bad it’s considered normal and mostly unreported
     
    Because you've spent so much time in them?

    also think about it logically – what is the key element in the current Hollywood scandal – extreme power imbalance.

    what do you get in neighborhoods dominated by gangs of violent young men – extreme power imbalance.

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    • Replies: @TWS
    Don't forget the impulse control problem. It's famously bad in those neighborhoods.
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  100. Kiza says:
    @ThreeCranes
    Thank you for your perceptive comment "visible friendships and states of attachment between extrafamilial adults and children became unacceptable".

    This is immensely true. As an adult male I must be continually on my guard against any suggestion that my dealings with say, a random child passing in front of my home on the street or even a child with his mother, are anything but above board and beyond suspicion. Men are walking in a literal minefield these days.

    This is sad. When I was a boy, my neighbor, a fine old Jewish man, used to walk around our neighborhood. Our paths would cross as I rode my bike hither, thither and yon. Invariably he would stop me and call me over. "Have I ever showed you my muscle?" he would ask. Then he would roll up his sleeve and flex his bicep. He'd been a farmer in his earlier days (there were photos of mule teams made up of 12 mules on his wall) and he had kept himself in great shape, like a lot of men did in those days. He had really strong arms, a powerful bicep. Then he'd chuckle, haul out his coin purse (that old kind you squeezed together to open) and give me two dimes because he knew that a kid couldn't get enough candy to power his dynamo. And then he'd send me on my way.

    Part of the reason he liked me, I think, is because he'd seen me from his window, as a little shaver, riding my stick horse (anyone remember them?) around our house, shooting bad guys, climbing trees etc. But I believe he was also buying some insurance. My sister often played dominoes with his wife. There were lots of kids around. By striking up friendship with us, this old couple insured that there were some kids in the neighborhood who would prevent others from vandalizing their property and so on.

    But anyway, there was no suggestion of impropriety involved. It was perfectly natural for a neighbor man to befriend a kid on the street. That was part of the community. Today, my wife doesn't understand when I tell her that she can deal with kids in a way that no man is allowed to.

    In fact, I'm even reluctant to publish this comment so afraid am I of having my (or my neighbor's) intentions misinterpreted. It's as though, formerly, when lines between what was socially acceptable and what was not were clear cut and specified, we had more freedom to interact, to be free. Now that lines between genders, determinations of what is acceptable behavior etc. have become blurred, we are actually less free, our intentions are always suspect. Is this not ironic? The unintended consequences of Liberal "good intentions"? The Hegelian "antithesis hidden within the thesis" of so-called "tolerance"? Liberal "tolerance" of everything puts everything under a cloud of suspicion.

    Formerly, rectitude and propriety were prima facie evidence of good intentions. Today, since liberals don't acknowledge the claim to higher morality implicit in propriety, since everything is mere arbitrary sign which has no inherent significance, since all cultural markers are nothing but easily picked-up and readily modified cultural habits, nothing can be taken as evidence of good character and good intentions. Everyone and everything is under suspicion.

    Camus pointed this out in his essay on the Marquis de Sade in his book "The Rebel". When, as advocated by de Sade, licentiousness is given free rein, the paradoxical result is murder. It is a society of all against all, each separated by suspicion as people gave in to the insatiable lust of their passions. Pure tolerance extended to a theoretic "everyone" yielded, in de Sade's universe, absolute isolation of each individual from every other one. What promised to break down the barriers raised them to absolute heights as each eyed the other with mutual suspicion. This is not at all unlike what is happening in Hollywood today as one person after another is brought low by the unbridled exercise of their passions which unlimited amounts of money and power enable.

    As always, Camus advocated the positive power of putting in place and enforcing "limits" to human behavior.

    I liked your comment, so let me add my two cents worth.

    I grew up in a South-Eastern European country. When I was about 19-20 years old I used to go playing basketball in a communal court about 1 km away from my home, passing through several residential streets on the way. I have been doing this for years, but then all of a sudden a group of young girls, about 6-12 years old formed and started making amorous comments when I was passing by. After a short while, all whilst laughing I started walking fast and then even running away from the “mob”. Well, this made the situation even worse, the little girls got really excited by an opportunity to chase their pray. So here I am running through this one narrow street and a bunch of about 15 young girls chasing excitedly after me with their short summer skirts flying around them in the air, like colourful little parasols. It was a spectacular sight and several neighbors from the houses on this street would stand and watch and smile and laugh, some possibly even parents of those girls. A totally innocent situation, by all accounts until one day apparently a father of one of the girls stooped me and ordered me never to walk through the same public street again under the treat of severe violence. I pointed out to him that I never showed any interest in any of the little girls, that this was a completely public street and that any alternative route to where I was going was almost double. All to no avail – I would be beaten up if I showed up again. Naturally, this was the point when I mentioned by basketball buddies and suggested that the threat source could be beaten back. In summary, the little girls disappeared and I have never seen them again.

    It is really important to appreciate the variety of human behavior and to avoid inrpretting and even restricting the learning of children. By limiting interactions with adults to a very narrow set of approved behaviours we are just doin damage. I am a father of a little girl now and I know that I would only monitor but never restrict a similar behaviour in my daughter.

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    • Replies: @utu
    I am a father of a little girl now and I know that I would only monitor but never restrict a similar behaviour in my daughter.

    Anthony Weiner looking for pen pals while in prison
    http://nypost.com/2017/11/09/anthony-weiner-cant-text-in-prison-so-he-wants-snail-mail-instead/
    , @ThreeCranes
    Thanks for that funny--and vivid--story.

    "Kids do the darndest things."
    , @TWS
    Cool story, bro.
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  101. notanon says:

    i think the problem with this debate, including me, is one side wants something and the other side reacts emotionally against it – and although i’m always suspicious maybe there’s a third side in between who wants to make the best of a bad situation.

    what that means is the social conservative side is always going to eventually lose every battle unless they are explicitly for something rather than always defending.

    one way into that is thinking about what is the optimal mating strategy for a society?

    for example the age of consent is very low in some places and one of the historical reasons for that is in clannish societies brides join an entire extended family becoming effectively a domestic servant of their mother-in-law so practically speaking it doesn’t matter if the husband is much older and the bride young and dumb cos the mother-in-law is in charge.

    however in a nuclear family type society having an older male with a child bride is going to be a very sub-optimal way of bringing up children imo (unless they are rich enough to afford nannies etc) and so in a nuclear family type environment you might need both spouses to be mature and capable e.g. early to mid 20s.

    so if it was decided or figured out that a nuclear family type environment with voluntary assortative mating based on people’s adult characteristics was the optimal mating strategy for society as a whole then you’d want to steer society in ways that made this more likely.

    so for example
    1) prevent adults (including young adults) sexualizing children before they’re fully mature
    2) see if it’s possible to switch off attraction to children for those who are (one way or another)
    3) prevent kids who mature early physically from making their own mistakes before they are fully mature emotionally
    4) push average age of puberty high so children to reduce the number who are sexualized naturally before they’re emotionally mature
    etc

    the explicit aim of those policies being to create an environment where couples form in their early to mid 20s rather than before.

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  102. Kiza says:
    @larry lurker

    The dark web – pffft. Too much effort
     
    If you know how to download, install and open a program/app and how to use a web browser, you can be on the Tor network within 90 seconds of reading this comment.

    and I refuse to believe the government isn’t watching every click you make. They can defeat everything. There is no anonymity.
     
    This might have been true 30 years ago; it's not true now. Tor might be broken as far as deanonymizing users/hidden services, i.e., being able to tell who is communicating with whom, but they can't break the encryption itself and read intercepted communications. The feds would have had a much harder time convicting Ross William Ulbricht (Silk Road) if they hadn't managed to tackle him in a library with his laptop still open.

    There's a reason the FBI is pressuring Apple to weaken its crypto; it works.

    No, crypto does not work. The commercial (as opposed to military) grade cryptography is easy to break for the governments and most of it even has mandatory back doors. It only requires resources, which means that the governments cannot monitor everybody all of the time. Has it occurred to you that the Apple crypto show is purely an obfuscation?

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    • Replies: @larry lurker
    Your use of the term "military grade cryptography", along with the rest of your post, suggests that have no idea what you're talking about.

    No modern military uses their own special "military grade" encryption - or if they do, it's because whoever's in charge doesn't understand Kerckhoffs' principle: "Assume the enemy knows the system."

    An algorithm is worthless until it's been scrutinized by the international crypto community and withstood all attempts at breaking (as AES has for almost twenty years, which I believe is what the iPhone uses for stored data.) In the 1970s no such large community existed, so the NSA and similar organizations really did have a monopoly on cryptanalysis - they were maybe a decade or two ahead of civilian researchers. This is no longer the case.


    and most of it even has mandatory back doors.
     
    The fact that the NSA paid RSA Security $10,000,000 to use their shitty pseudorandom number generator, which was known to have a backdoor in it as early as 2007, just means you shouldn't trust RSA Security. It's not a problem with crypto in general.

    The RSA story was revealed in one of the Snowden leaks. All the leaks were along these lines: the NSA would pay companies to break their own software, or they'd exploit software vulnerabilities, or they'd hack into systems and change the code. None of this is cryptanalysis; they're not even bothering to attack the algorithms anymore, because the algorithms these days are just too good.

    As Bruce Schneier says: "Trust the math."

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  103. utu says:
    @Kiza
    I liked your comment, so let me add my two cents worth.

    I grew up in a South-Eastern European country. When I was about 19-20 years old I used to go playing basketball in a communal court about 1 km away from my home, passing through several residential streets on the way. I have been doing this for years, but then all of a sudden a group of young girls, about 6-12 years old formed and started making amorous comments when I was passing by. After a short while, all whilst laughing I started walking fast and then even running away from the “mob”. Well, this made the situation even worse, the little girls got really excited by an opportunity to chase their pray. So here I am running through this one narrow street and a bunch of about 15 young girls chasing excitedly after me with their short summer skirts flying around them in the air, like colourful little parasols. It was a spectacular sight and several neighbors from the houses on this street would stand and watch and smile and laugh, some possibly even parents of those girls. A totally innocent situation, by all accounts until one day apparently a father of one of the girls stooped me and ordered me never to walk through the same public street again under the treat of severe violence. I pointed out to him that I never showed any interest in any of the little girls, that this was a completely public street and that any alternative route to where I was going was almost double. All to no avail - I would be beaten up if I showed up again. Naturally, this was the point when I mentioned by basketball buddies and suggested that the threat source could be beaten back. In summary, the little girls disappeared and I have never seen them again.

    It is really important to appreciate the variety of human behavior and to avoid inrpretting and even restricting the learning of children. By limiting interactions with adults to a very narrow set of approved behaviours we are just doin damage. I am a father of a little girl now and I know that I would only monitor but never restrict a similar behaviour in my daughter.

    I am a father of a little girl now and I know that I would only monitor but never restrict a similar behaviour in my daughter.

    Anthony Weiner looking for pen pals while in prison

    http://nypost.com/2017/11/09/anthony-weiner-cant-text-in-prison-so-he-wants-snail-mail-instead/

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  104. notanon says:

    state security doesn’t want backdoors into everything because they want to catch everyone – they want backdoors into everything so they can catch and then blackmail important people

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  105. Tony says:
    @Backwoods Bob
    We have the largest prison population on the planet in real and absolute terms.

    You can roll back criminal penalties for just about everything that wasn't already recognized at the founding of our country and it would do us good.

    I imagine most men have the same "ewwww" feeling about kids and porn as I do. But I can't look at homosexual male porn either. Or morbidly obese women, or anal sex, or bondage, or any number of other things. Abuse and sex, wow - even acting that out is more than "eeewww" for me. More like horrifying.

    But I feel no urge to jail people who get off on all that revolting stuff. And who is it that is terrified by teens dancing on camera for men with money? Not their parents, as the article points out. That's how they can afford to eat and have more than one pair of underwear.

    The dark web - pffft. Too much effort, and I refuse to believe the government isn't watching every click you make. They can defeat everything. There is no anonymity.

    Maybe you haven't been caught yet. Most likely because you are a small fish and no threat to their power. You can't be extorted for enough gain, either.

    So you are getting away with it, for now. But don't kid yourself.

    “But I can’t look at homosexual male porn either. Or morbidly obese women, or anal sex, or bondage, or any number of other things. ”
    Who you trying to kid Backwoods, Most of us saw Deliverence. We know what you guys do.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Backwoods Bob
    Hilarious, Tony.

    But at least we're doin' it while y'all is just watchin'.
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  106. Jon Orton says:
    @SMK
    Sex crime laws in the U.S. are insane and execrable and hideously draconian. The U.S. is sui generis in its lunacy and hysteria over sex between adults and pubescent teenagers under statutory age. Women teachers who have love affairs and trysts with biological men under age 18 are punished more harshly than male criminals, including recidivists with histories of crime and violence beginning at age 13 or 14, convicted of aggravated assaults, muggings, armed robberies, gang-shootings, even murder. A woman in Nevada was just sentenced to life in prison for allegedly "forcing" a young man of 13 to touch her breast! The sentence was mandatory when she was convicted, by a jury, of this heinous and unspeakable crime. I could go on and on. I suggest you visit my website and read the articles and blog-posts.

    The Nevada case you mentioned happened nearly 10 years ago. You might be interested in some of the legal comments from the story which was published in political forum

    http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/woman-gets-life-sentence-for-13-year-old-touching-her-breasts.307982/

    Whilst your concern about the apparently draconian nature of the sentence is understandable, you might care to read the comments by ‘bowspearer’ in particular to realise why the sentence was decided as it was.

    For all that, it’s a dreadful shame that a once attractive woman threw her life away over the matter. http://www.coyote-tv.com/2014/03/28/nv-supremes-mum-on-jackpot-molester-life-sentence-appeal/

    Read More
    • Replies: @TWS
    According to the linked article she refused any plea deal that required her to register. That went well for her. She has no one to blame but herself on any of it.
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  107. SMK says: • Website
    @Jonathan Mason

    Women teachers who have love affairs and trysts with biological men under age 18 are punished more harshly... A woman in Nevada was just sentenced to life in prison for allegedly “forcing” a young man of 13 to touch her breast!
     
    These women teachers should keep their tits under cover, and they deserve to be punished for sheer stupidity.

    In a sane and just and rational society, teachers can be punished, non-criminally, by dismissal and revocation of their licenses and expulsion from the profession. Or, at worst, charged with a misdemeanor, however defined, and sentenced to 3-6 months of probation (and/or house-arrest) and perhaps 50-100 hours of community service: no prison, no jail, no “sex-offender treatment,” no quasi-totalitarian supervision, no electronic parole monitoring with an ankle-tether/”bracelet,” no registration for life as a uniquely deviant and dangerous criminal, their mug-shots, names, and addresses on the internet for all to see and often send them hate-mail and death-threats of even resort to vigilante “justice.” All of this is draconian, grotesquely so, and “cruel and unusual punishment” in the sense of being wholly gratuitous, completely unnecessary to protect anyone from anything.

    Read More
    • Replies: @TWS
    In a sane and just world teachers who sexually molest their students are hung by the neck. People who make excuses for them get the draconian punishment.
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  108. @Kiza
    I liked your comment, so let me add my two cents worth.

    I grew up in a South-Eastern European country. When I was about 19-20 years old I used to go playing basketball in a communal court about 1 km away from my home, passing through several residential streets on the way. I have been doing this for years, but then all of a sudden a group of young girls, about 6-12 years old formed and started making amorous comments when I was passing by. After a short while, all whilst laughing I started walking fast and then even running away from the “mob”. Well, this made the situation even worse, the little girls got really excited by an opportunity to chase their pray. So here I am running through this one narrow street and a bunch of about 15 young girls chasing excitedly after me with their short summer skirts flying around them in the air, like colourful little parasols. It was a spectacular sight and several neighbors from the houses on this street would stand and watch and smile and laugh, some possibly even parents of those girls. A totally innocent situation, by all accounts until one day apparently a father of one of the girls stooped me and ordered me never to walk through the same public street again under the treat of severe violence. I pointed out to him that I never showed any interest in any of the little girls, that this was a completely public street and that any alternative route to where I was going was almost double. All to no avail - I would be beaten up if I showed up again. Naturally, this was the point when I mentioned by basketball buddies and suggested that the threat source could be beaten back. In summary, the little girls disappeared and I have never seen them again.

    It is really important to appreciate the variety of human behavior and to avoid inrpretting and even restricting the learning of children. By limiting interactions with adults to a very narrow set of approved behaviours we are just doin damage. I am a father of a little girl now and I know that I would only monitor but never restrict a similar behaviour in my daughter.

    Thanks for that funny–and vivid–story.

    “Kids do the darndest things.”

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  109. SMK says: • Website
    @Truth

    A woman in Nevada was just sentenced to life in prison for allegedly “forcing” a young man of 13 to touch her breast!
     
    I would doubt this happenned.

    Are you saying I’m lying or delusional? That I invented or imagined this? Search the internet and you’ll find many articles and news stories about this outrage.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Logan
    Just provide a link if you wish to prove your point.
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  110. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @MikeatMikedotMike
    You're focusing more on convincing normies to accept the idea that pedos looking at cartoon/digital child porn might be a solution. Maybe, but probably not. I don't think there has ever been a single occurrence throughout modern history where enabling a group of people engaging in bad behavior led to a better outcome.

    But if you're still committed, I think you should focus more on the more difficult part of that equation: Convincing pedos to abandon authentic child porn and view digital child porn only.

    Still, it's just so much easier to lecture normies on this stuff (and hang yourself on a cross in the article title) than to go to the source with your suggestion. Perhaps submit an article on the NAMBLA website, lecturing on the win/win of fake child porn, see how far that gets you.

    “I don’t think there has ever been a single occurrence throughout modern history where enabling a group of people engaging in bad behavior led to a better outcome.”

    So far as I grasp things, actual rape has decreased since internet porn became widely available. I’m talking about stranger rape.

    I think it makes sense in general that bad things should decrease if people are given the option of doing less bad things.

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  111. @Kiza
    No, crypto does not work. The commercial (as opposed to military) grade cryptography is easy to break for the governments and most of it even has mandatory back doors. It only requires resources, which means that the governments cannot monitor everybody all of the time. Has it occurred to you that the Apple crypto show is purely an obfuscation?

    Your use of the term “military grade cryptography”, along with the rest of your post, suggests that have no idea what you’re talking about.

    No modern military uses their own special “military grade” encryption – or if they do, it’s because whoever’s in charge doesn’t understand Kerckhoffs’ principle: “Assume the enemy knows the system.”

    An algorithm is worthless until it’s been scrutinized by the international crypto community and withstood all attempts at breaking (as AES has for almost twenty years, which I believe is what the iPhone uses for stored data.) In the 1970s no such large community existed, so the NSA and similar organizations really did have a monopoly on cryptanalysis – they were maybe a decade or two ahead of civilian researchers. This is no longer the case.

    and most of it even has mandatory back doors.

    The fact that the NSA paid RSA Security $10,000,000 to use their shitty pseudorandom number generator, which was known to have a backdoor in it as early as 2007, just means you shouldn’t trust RSA Security. It’s not a problem with crypto in general.

    The RSA story was revealed in one of the Snowden leaks. All the leaks were along these lines: the NSA would pay companies to break their own software, or they’d exploit software vulnerabilities, or they’d hack into systems and change the code. None of this is cryptanalysis; they’re not even bothering to attack the algorithms anymore, because the algorithms these days are just too good.

    As Bruce Schneier says: “Trust the math.”

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  112. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @DL42
    Interesting article. I wonder if you'd be aware that in Japan, "digiporn" as you've described is more or less legally accepted. Hundreds of pornographic comic books featuring clearly underage characters are released and sold each year, often online. There is also a large market on video games featuring underage characters in sexual situations. Most are Visual Novels (basically interactive voiced picture books), though some are full 3D sex simulators, with characters' every body facet customizable to your liking. VR interaction is just on the horizon for many of these as well. Only a few of these ever generate much controversy.

    I haven't the time to research this personally, but I wonder how the rates of child sex abuse in Japan compare to the rest of the western world in light of this apparent acceptance of virtual child pornography.

    I don’t know the stats on child sex abuse in particular, but isn’t it true that modern Japan is notorious for men having no interest in real life sexuality at all, and just looking at porn? That is obviously very bad in its own right, but it seems to buttress the case for fake child porn as an alternative to child abuse.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Logan
    Japan has a very odd attitude towards little girls and sex.

    In America we dress little girls up as grown women to make the sex toys. In Japan they dress up grown women as little girls to make them sex toys.
    , @Anonymous
    Japanese have a very low rate of sexual criminality. I don't know if the liberal attitude to pornography there is a cause or consequence of this. I don't think Japanese attitudes are exportable to other countries anyway.
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  113. Engineer says:

    Hmmm…I don’t know how the TOR organization works exactly but the TOR technology was developed by the US Navy. And yet it is supposed to be this super duper privacy tool that government agencies can’t easily crack. I don’t get it. Why is the Navy offering secret browsing tools to dope pushers and perverts?

    As for the children being raped and abused for the pleasure of twisted minds, yes it is disgusting and evil but is it realistic for the US to start a program to haul international child porn producers in front of an American court? How would this work exactly? And, really, doesn’t America have enough problems at home it should be focusing on rather than expanding its global Cop role?

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  114. Logan says:
    @jtgw
    Increasing the marginal productivity of labor is the main way to increase wages, all else being equal. There are two main factors determining wages: marginal productivity of labor (how much each new worker adds to value) and bargaining power (how many individuals competing for same job). As you note, immigration on its own contributes to a downward pressure in wages in a certain sector in a certain place. However, if we hold the number of laborers constant, any increase in productivity will drive up wages, since if there is a limited pool of workers, employers will be constantly bidding up labor as far as they can afford it. What determines whether they can afford it is the marginal value of the laborer. So if you add $10 of value per hour to your employer, your employer can afford to pay you as much as that but no more. If you can add more value than that, then you can do the math.

    Productivity is the amount of human input required to produce a given amount of goods or services. It grows at a compound rate.

    Project that growth rate far enough and infinite goods/services are produced with zero human input (or nearly).

    We seem to be heading in that direction. No effective economic demand for the services increasing numbers of people are capable of providing.

    Situation made worse here, of course, by importing huge numbers of people to compete for the increasingly few low-skill jobs.

    Read More
    • Replies: @jtgw
    I don't quite follow the definition of productivity that you're using. My understanding is that productivity is a property of a unit of input to the production process. So land has productivity, labor has productivity, capital goods have productivity. When it comes to productivity of labor, i.e the human input you're talking about, it isn't really about the amount of labor, e.g. number of hours worked, or even about the absolute quantity of stuff produced by one hour of human labor, but about the value of the product of one hour of human labor, what we call "marginal value product."

    The thing is that there are many ways to increase the MVP of labor. Working faster or harder is one way, but also using tools to increase or improve output is another way. The second method doesn't require increased effort or speed of production, but it still raises the MVP, which in turn leads to higher wages through the upbidding process I mentioned above. This is how capital accumulation and investing that accumulated capital on its own raises wages and living standards.

    The scenario you describe of vast numbers of people losing all value as inputs to production depends heavily on the idea that there is a fixed demand for goods and services. I would think all of human history throws serious doubt on that notion, but people will say "but this time is different." The thing is that, in most parts of the world, poverty is actually plummeting; the global trend is really in the opposite direction to the doomsday trend you're describing. The stagnation of real incomes seems to be a phenomenon peculiar to the developed countries and even there the incomes stagnated at a very high level from the perspective of world history. I don't think the evidence is there to justify the kind of global mass starvation scenario so many put forward.
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  115. Logan says:
    @Anonymous
    I don't know the stats on child sex abuse in particular, but isn't it true that modern Japan is notorious for men having no interest in real life sexuality at all, and just looking at porn? That is obviously very bad in its own right, but it seems to buttress the case for fake child porn as an alternative to child abuse.

    Japan has a very odd attitude towards little girls and sex.

    In America we dress little girls up as grown women to make the sex toys. In Japan they dress up grown women as little girls to make them sex toys.

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  116. Logan says:
    @notanon

    Most of the 3rd World, outside Africa, is already using birth control.
     
    right - so apart from Africa we only have to deal with the tsunami of people created by the post-war population boom due to cleaner water, better diet and medical care - and the ever reducing need for the current number of people caused by improving technology.

    we'd be going backwards because of that even if pop. growth was zero everywhere.

    Yet somehow absolute poverty in the worldhas been falling like a rock for a couple of decades now.

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    • Replies: @notanon
    off-shoring

    the wage gap between 1st and 3rd world was so immense that in percentage terms a drop of x% in the 1st world was equal to an increase in multiple x% in the 3rd

    e.g.

    US worker $100 / day -> $90 / day = 10% drop
    3rd world $1 / day -> $10 / day = 1000% increase

    same with remittance fueled immigration (as both increase the supply of labor effecting the local economy but the cash earned by that labor is spent overseas)
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  117. Logan says:
    @SMK
    Are you saying I'm lying or delusional? That I invented or imagined this? Search the internet and you'll find many articles and news stories about this outrage.

    Just provide a link if you wish to prove your point.

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  118. AKAHorace says:
    @John Jeremiah Smith
    I have no problem with Fred's proposed solution per se, but who will pay for the system that keeps pedos busy and away from real children? And who will pay for policing pedos and keeping them away from productive society altogether, as they should be?

    I don't get it -- just like I don't "get" the huge concessions America has made to the, er, noble passion of homosexuality. Why the hell do we have to tolerate it at ALL? Is civilization to be nothing but a tribute to sexual perversions?

    Hell no. They can either NOT exhibit the behavior, in any form whatsoever, or they can die. Letting evolution do its thing has worked so well for so long ... why frustrate evolution?

    What if child molestation has been going on for a long time and only in modern times is it being openly admitted to ?

    I am not sure if Fred is right, but I think that he has raised a question worth considering.

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    • Replies: @notanon
    the age of consent in the UK went up during the industrial revolution - was that because people accepted it before then or because it was relatively rare before then?

    given the industrial revolution included a mostly male first mass migration to the cities i'm assuming it was the latter caused by the surplus of unattached males.

    i assume this because the same thing (forced child prostitution etc) is happening now in every western city due to the excess of males created by mass immigration (among other cultural factors).
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  119. @RobinG
    A great and almost universally pervasive flaw is the failure to distinguish between children (i.e. pre-pubescent) and adolescents. I'm willing to bet the alleged Landis study included the latter. If the 30-35% figure is true, what percentage do you guess were 17 year olds dating "adult" college kids? Furthermore, "anon" chose to blur the subject between sexual exploitation and friendship. Creepy.

    While I have huge respect for Ron Unz's free speech policy, I'm not a fan of his tolerance for "anonymous" posting. Why isn't it enough to pick an alias? Hopefully, just as he purged the multiple pseudonyms, he'll change his mind one day.

    While I have huge respect for Ron Unz’s free speech policy, I’m not a fan of his tolerance for “anonymous” posting. Why isn’t it enough to pick an alias? Hopefully, just as he purged the multiple pseudonyms, he’ll change his mind one day.

    On the other hand, I have huge respect for Ron Unz’s free speech policy, and I value his wide-latitude “Anonymous” policy.

    As you probably realized as soon as you read the first sentence, this also means I believe you to be an obsessive, controlling person who wants to inflict his/her values and beliefs on other people. You could counteract this statement of my opinion just a teensy bit by posting your complete real name, address and phone number, you hypocritical jackass.

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  120. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Anonymous
    I don't know the stats on child sex abuse in particular, but isn't it true that modern Japan is notorious for men having no interest in real life sexuality at all, and just looking at porn? That is obviously very bad in its own right, but it seems to buttress the case for fake child porn as an alternative to child abuse.

    Japanese have a very low rate of sexual criminality. I don’t know if the liberal attitude to pornography there is a cause or consequence of this. I don’t think Japanese attitudes are exportable to other countries anyway.

    Read More
    • Replies: @notanon
    Japan has a very low homicide rate as well.
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  121. jtgw says:
    @Logan
    Productivity is the amount of human input required to produce a given amount of goods or services. It grows at a compound rate.

    Project that growth rate far enough and infinite goods/services are produced with zero human input (or nearly).

    We seem to be heading in that direction. No effective economic demand for the services increasing numbers of people are capable of providing.

    Situation made worse here, of course, by importing huge numbers of people to compete for the increasingly few low-skill jobs.

    I don’t quite follow the definition of productivity that you’re using. My understanding is that productivity is a property of a unit of input to the production process. So land has productivity, labor has productivity, capital goods have productivity. When it comes to productivity of labor, i.e the human input you’re talking about, it isn’t really about the amount of labor, e.g. number of hours worked, or even about the absolute quantity of stuff produced by one hour of human labor, but about the value of the product of one hour of human labor, what we call “marginal value product.”

    The thing is that there are many ways to increase the MVP of labor. Working faster or harder is one way, but also using tools to increase or improve output is another way. The second method doesn’t require increased effort or speed of production, but it still raises the MVP, which in turn leads to higher wages through the upbidding process I mentioned above. This is how capital accumulation and investing that accumulated capital on its own raises wages and living standards.

    The scenario you describe of vast numbers of people losing all value as inputs to production depends heavily on the idea that there is a fixed demand for goods and services. I would think all of human history throws serious doubt on that notion, but people will say “but this time is different.” The thing is that, in most parts of the world, poverty is actually plummeting; the global trend is really in the opposite direction to the doomsday trend you’re describing. The stagnation of real incomes seems to be a phenomenon peculiar to the developed countries and even there the incomes stagnated at a very high level from the perspective of world history. I don’t think the evidence is there to justify the kind of global mass starvation scenario so many put forward.

    Read More
    • Replies: @notanon

    ...but it still raises the MVP, which in turn leads to higher wages through the upbidding process I mentioned above.
     
    right, that's how it works if you have a fixed labor supply but the upbidding process can be counter acted by increasing the supply of labor in which case all the benefit of the increased productivity goes to the employers.

    so there is increased demand from the increased productivity but it's demand for yachts and mansions not family cars and family homes.

    (not making an egalitarian point here just saying the nature of demand has consequences)
    , @Logan
    Productivity of labor is indeed what I was talking about. Sorry for not making that clear.

    Obviously I'm talking entirely about advanced economies and automation. Luddites have for centuries decried the loss of jobs to mechanization. This loss was often indeed very real and disastrous to individuals, families and communities, but overall mechanization has been a boon to humanity in the long run.

    My concern is that mechanization/automation is increasingly replacing humans. This is of course mainly in developed countries, where the cost of human labor is highest. For instance, it seems likely that most human vehicle drivers will be displaced by automatic system over the next decade or two.

    I make no pretense to be a trained economist, but it seems there are two categories of jobs: 1) Demand for a particular service exceeds supply, so employers compete with each other to recruit workers. These are, IMO, the only "real" jobs, ones with genuine economic demand. Over time, wages tend to be bid up or at least remain steady. 2) Jobs where the supply of potential workers significantly exceeds demand by employers, so workers are by definition simply widgets where one is unplugged and another is plugged in. Workers compete against each other for jobs, so wages tend to decline.

    I think automation is eating away the number of relatively well-paid Category 2 jobs, increasing the competition for those remaining, with the problem made worse by importing large numbers to compete for the same jobs.

    The world of the future where there are few jobs for anybody, with almost all work done by machines, will be an incredibly wealthy one. No need for anybody at all to starve. Indeed, no particular reason everybody can't have a lifestyle equivalent to today's middle class America.

    My concerns are more spiritual and psychological. American ghettos, Indian reservations here and in Canada, and white British slums do not paint a pretty picture of what life without work will be like.

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  122. jtgw says:
    @notanon

    Increasing the marginal productivity of labor is the main way to increase wages, all else being equal.
     
    agreed but in the context of a pre-existing over supply of labor or a simultaneous increase in the supply of labor the two forces balance each other out.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/73/US_productivity_and_real_wages.jpg

    i'm all for productivity growth as it's the only real foundation for prosperity but i think you need to also constrain the labor supply to get the full benefit.

    I’ve seen some hard-hitting critiques of that graph, which gets passed around a lot to prove all sorts of mutually incompatible theories, i.e. middle class wage stagnation due to a) immigration b) oil shock c) abandoning gold standard d) Reagan tax cuts etc etc. I don’t recall the details of the critique but basically it combines two sets of incommensurable data and doesn’t represent a real correlation. Anyway I’d be careful about using it.

    The interplay of forces is more complex than you make out. For example, while immigrants in one respect bid down wages as producers, at the same time they introduce more demand as consumers, which bids up prices for goods and hence for the producers of those goods. While I think there may be good reasons to support immigration controls under current conditions, the economic arguments against immigration focus very heavily on just certain effects of increased labor supply, ignoring other effects that operate in a contrary direction.

    Read More
    • Replies: @notanon
    supply and demand is very simple - oligarchs pay people a lot of money to obfuscate it

    For example, while immigrants in one respect bid down wages as producers, at the same time they introduce more demand as consumers, which bids up prices for goods and hence for the producers of those goods.
     
    1) where is the money spent? (remittances etc)

    2) you need to consider the nature of demand, say

    case 1)
    100 workers paid $2, subsistence costs $1
    ->
    $100 subsistence demand
    $100 middle class demand

    case 2)
    200 workers paid $1, subsistence $1
    ->
    $200 subsistence demand
    $0 middle class demand

    when a society shifts from a middle class economy to a plantation economy the nature of demand is transformed
    - increased demand for cheap subsistence goods
    - reduction in demand for middle class goods

    example housing
    increase demand -> bid up price of housing
    bid down wages -> can't afford existing housing
    =
    middle class single family homes -> multiple family apartments

    nutshell: if you don't restrict the supply of labor you gradually turn into the 3rd world
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  123. notanon says:
    @Logan
    Yet somehow absolute poverty in the worldhas been falling like a rock for a couple of decades now.

    off-shoring

    the wage gap between 1st and 3rd world was so immense that in percentage terms a drop of x% in the 1st world was equal to an increase in multiple x% in the 3rd

    e.g.

    US worker $100 / day -> $90 / day = 10% drop
    3rd world $1 / day -> $10 / day = 1000% increase

    same with remittance fueled immigration (as both increase the supply of labor effecting the local economy but the cash earned by that labor is spent overseas)

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  124. notanon says:
    @jtgw
    I've seen some hard-hitting critiques of that graph, which gets passed around a lot to prove all sorts of mutually incompatible theories, i.e. middle class wage stagnation due to a) immigration b) oil shock c) abandoning gold standard d) Reagan tax cuts etc etc. I don't recall the details of the critique but basically it combines two sets of incommensurable data and doesn't represent a real correlation. Anyway I'd be careful about using it.

    The interplay of forces is more complex than you make out. For example, while immigrants in one respect bid down wages as producers, at the same time they introduce more demand as consumers, which bids up prices for goods and hence for the producers of those goods. While I think there may be good reasons to support immigration controls under current conditions, the economic arguments against immigration focus very heavily on just certain effects of increased labor supply, ignoring other effects that operate in a contrary direction.

    supply and demand is very simple – oligarchs pay people a lot of money to obfuscate it

    For example, while immigrants in one respect bid down wages as producers, at the same time they introduce more demand as consumers, which bids up prices for goods and hence for the producers of those goods.

    1) where is the money spent? (remittances etc)

    2) you need to consider the nature of demand, say

    case 1)
    100 workers paid $2, subsistence costs $1
    ->
    $100 subsistence demand
    $100 middle class demand

    case 2)
    200 workers paid $1, subsistence $1
    ->
    $200 subsistence demand
    $0 middle class demand

    when a society shifts from a middle class economy to a plantation economy the nature of demand is transformed
    - increased demand for cheap subsistence goods
    - reduction in demand for middle class goods

    example housing
    increase demand -> bid up price of housing
    bid down wages -> can’t afford existing housing
    =
    middle class single family homes -> multiple family apartments

    nutshell: if you don’t restrict the supply of labor you gradually turn into the 3rd world

    Read More
    • Replies: @jtgw

    nutshell: if you don’t restrict the supply of labor you gradually turn into the 3rd world
     
    Yet both population and real incomes increased during the Industrial Revolution, which means there are holes in your theory.
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  125. notanon says:
    @jtgw
    I don't quite follow the definition of productivity that you're using. My understanding is that productivity is a property of a unit of input to the production process. So land has productivity, labor has productivity, capital goods have productivity. When it comes to productivity of labor, i.e the human input you're talking about, it isn't really about the amount of labor, e.g. number of hours worked, or even about the absolute quantity of stuff produced by one hour of human labor, but about the value of the product of one hour of human labor, what we call "marginal value product."

    The thing is that there are many ways to increase the MVP of labor. Working faster or harder is one way, but also using tools to increase or improve output is another way. The second method doesn't require increased effort or speed of production, but it still raises the MVP, which in turn leads to higher wages through the upbidding process I mentioned above. This is how capital accumulation and investing that accumulated capital on its own raises wages and living standards.

    The scenario you describe of vast numbers of people losing all value as inputs to production depends heavily on the idea that there is a fixed demand for goods and services. I would think all of human history throws serious doubt on that notion, but people will say "but this time is different." The thing is that, in most parts of the world, poverty is actually plummeting; the global trend is really in the opposite direction to the doomsday trend you're describing. The stagnation of real incomes seems to be a phenomenon peculiar to the developed countries and even there the incomes stagnated at a very high level from the perspective of world history. I don't think the evidence is there to justify the kind of global mass starvation scenario so many put forward.

    …but it still raises the MVP, which in turn leads to higher wages through the upbidding process I mentioned above.

    right, that’s how it works if you have a fixed labor supply but the upbidding process can be counter acted by increasing the supply of labor in which case all the benefit of the increased productivity goes to the employers.

    so there is increased demand from the increased productivity but it’s demand for yachts and mansions not family cars and family homes.

    (not making an egalitarian point here just saying the nature of demand has consequences)

    Read More
    • Replies: @jtgw
    I know that increased labor supply exerts downward pressure on wages; I mentioned that several times already. But the increased population also exerts upward pressure on consumer good prices, which is imputed to producer prices, which includes labor. Are you denying that? If the size of the labor pool was the only relevant factor, increasing population in England in the 19th century should have led to falling wages and living standards (as Marx predicted). Instead, the opposite happened. That means the size of the labor pool is not necessarily the most important factor.
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  126. notanon says:
    @Anonymous
    Japanese have a very low rate of sexual criminality. I don't know if the liberal attitude to pornography there is a cause or consequence of this. I don't think Japanese attitudes are exportable to other countries anyway.

    Japan has a very low homicide rate as well.

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  127. jtgw says:
    @notanon
    supply and demand is very simple - oligarchs pay people a lot of money to obfuscate it

    For example, while immigrants in one respect bid down wages as producers, at the same time they introduce more demand as consumers, which bids up prices for goods and hence for the producers of those goods.
     
    1) where is the money spent? (remittances etc)

    2) you need to consider the nature of demand, say

    case 1)
    100 workers paid $2, subsistence costs $1
    ->
    $100 subsistence demand
    $100 middle class demand

    case 2)
    200 workers paid $1, subsistence $1
    ->
    $200 subsistence demand
    $0 middle class demand

    when a society shifts from a middle class economy to a plantation economy the nature of demand is transformed
    - increased demand for cheap subsistence goods
    - reduction in demand for middle class goods

    example housing
    increase demand -> bid up price of housing
    bid down wages -> can't afford existing housing
    =
    middle class single family homes -> multiple family apartments

    nutshell: if you don't restrict the supply of labor you gradually turn into the 3rd world

    nutshell: if you don’t restrict the supply of labor you gradually turn into the 3rd world

    Yet both population and real incomes increased during the Industrial Revolution, which means there are holes in your theory.

    Read More
    • Replies: @notanon
    the labor supply wasn't global in that era
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  128. jtgw says:
    @notanon

    ...but it still raises the MVP, which in turn leads to higher wages through the upbidding process I mentioned above.
     
    right, that's how it works if you have a fixed labor supply but the upbidding process can be counter acted by increasing the supply of labor in which case all the benefit of the increased productivity goes to the employers.

    so there is increased demand from the increased productivity but it's demand for yachts and mansions not family cars and family homes.

    (not making an egalitarian point here just saying the nature of demand has consequences)

    I know that increased labor supply exerts downward pressure on wages; I mentioned that several times already. But the increased population also exerts upward pressure on consumer good prices, which is imputed to producer prices, which includes labor. Are you denying that? If the size of the labor pool was the only relevant factor, increasing population in England in the 19th century should have led to falling wages and living standards (as Marx predicted). Instead, the opposite happened. That means the size of the labor pool is not necessarily the most important factor.

    Read More
    • Replies: @notanon
    right - it's the balance of supply and demand where in the current context the supply is potentially unlimited.

    so i'll change

    nutshell: if you don’t restrict the supply of labor you gradually turn into the 3rd world
     
    to

    nutshell: in the context of a potentially unlimited supply if you don’t restrict the supply of labor you gradually turn into the 3rd world
     
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  129. notanon says:
    @AKAHorace
    What if child molestation has been going on for a long time and only in modern times is it being openly admitted to ?

    I am not sure if Fred is right, but I think that he has raised a question worth considering.

    the age of consent in the UK went up during the industrial revolution – was that because people accepted it before then or because it was relatively rare before then?

    given the industrial revolution included a mostly male first mass migration to the cities i’m assuming it was the latter caused by the surplus of unattached males.

    i assume this because the same thing (forced child prostitution etc) is happening now in every western city due to the excess of males created by mass immigration (among other cultural factors).

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  130. notanon says:
    @jtgw

    nutshell: if you don’t restrict the supply of labor you gradually turn into the 3rd world
     
    Yet both population and real incomes increased during the Industrial Revolution, which means there are holes in your theory.

    the labor supply wasn’t global in that era

    Read More
    • Replies: @jtgw
    The labor supply was less mobile, but they still participated in a global economy. England imported cotton cloth from India in the 17th century but was exporting in the opposite direction by the 19th century, so enormous transportation costs ultimately counted for less than even larger differences in productivity.
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  131. notanon says:
    @jtgw
    I know that increased labor supply exerts downward pressure on wages; I mentioned that several times already. But the increased population also exerts upward pressure on consumer good prices, which is imputed to producer prices, which includes labor. Are you denying that? If the size of the labor pool was the only relevant factor, increasing population in England in the 19th century should have led to falling wages and living standards (as Marx predicted). Instead, the opposite happened. That means the size of the labor pool is not necessarily the most important factor.

    right – it’s the balance of supply and demand where in the current context the supply is potentially unlimited.

    so i’ll change

    nutshell: if you don’t restrict the supply of labor you gradually turn into the 3rd world

    to

    nutshell: in the context of a potentially unlimited supply if you don’t restrict the supply of labor you gradually turn into the 3rd world

    Read More
    • Replies: @jtgw
    I'm not sure what you mean by "potentially unlimited." If we're talking population growth, it's "potentially unlimited" in the sense that it could go on forever assuming resources can be found to sustain the population. But I don't see how the "potential" for growth would affect prices. What matters is the number of workers bidding for wages at any moment. And I'm not sure how whatever scenario you're thinking of challenges the point I made that, in history, we've seen both labor supply and wages increase in tandem. If your economic theory predicts that increased labor supply must always lead to lower wages, your theory is wrong.
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  132. TWS says:
    @notanon
    also think about it logically - what is the key element in the current Hollywood scandal - extreme power imbalance.

    what do you get in neighborhoods dominated by gangs of violent young men - extreme power imbalance.

    Don’t forget the impulse control problem. It’s famously bad in those neighborhoods.

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  133. TWS says:
    @Kiza
    I liked your comment, so let me add my two cents worth.

    I grew up in a South-Eastern European country. When I was about 19-20 years old I used to go playing basketball in a communal court about 1 km away from my home, passing through several residential streets on the way. I have been doing this for years, but then all of a sudden a group of young girls, about 6-12 years old formed and started making amorous comments when I was passing by. After a short while, all whilst laughing I started walking fast and then even running away from the “mob”. Well, this made the situation even worse, the little girls got really excited by an opportunity to chase their pray. So here I am running through this one narrow street and a bunch of about 15 young girls chasing excitedly after me with their short summer skirts flying around them in the air, like colourful little parasols. It was a spectacular sight and several neighbors from the houses on this street would stand and watch and smile and laugh, some possibly even parents of those girls. A totally innocent situation, by all accounts until one day apparently a father of one of the girls stooped me and ordered me never to walk through the same public street again under the treat of severe violence. I pointed out to him that I never showed any interest in any of the little girls, that this was a completely public street and that any alternative route to where I was going was almost double. All to no avail - I would be beaten up if I showed up again. Naturally, this was the point when I mentioned by basketball buddies and suggested that the threat source could be beaten back. In summary, the little girls disappeared and I have never seen them again.

    It is really important to appreciate the variety of human behavior and to avoid inrpretting and even restricting the learning of children. By limiting interactions with adults to a very narrow set of approved behaviours we are just doin damage. I am a father of a little girl now and I know that I would only monitor but never restrict a similar behaviour in my daughter.

    Cool story, bro.

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  134. TWS says:
    @Jon Orton
    The Nevada case you mentioned happened nearly 10 years ago. You might be interested in some of the legal comments from the story which was published in political forum
    http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/woman-gets-life-sentence-for-13-year-old-touching-her-breasts.307982/

    Whilst your concern about the apparently draconian nature of the sentence is understandable, you might care to read the comments by 'bowspearer' in particular to realise why the sentence was decided as it was.

    For all that, it's a dreadful shame that a once attractive woman threw her life away over the matter. http://www.coyote-tv.com/2014/03/28/nv-supremes-mum-on-jackpot-molester-life-sentence-appeal/

    According to the linked article she refused any plea deal that required her to register. That went well for her. She has no one to blame but herself on any of it.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jon Orton
    Indeed she doesn't. In fact my reading of the article was that she was so adamantly opposed registering as a sex offender (a key requirement to be offered a plea bargain) that she refused the plea deal.

    Which leads me to wonder why she did refuse. Was the plea bargain badly explained and left her thinking that registration would limit her future employment opportunities? Life in prison will certainly limit those.
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  135. TWS says:
    @SMK
    In a sane and just and rational society, teachers can be punished, non-criminally, by dismissal and revocation of their licenses and expulsion from the profession. Or, at worst, charged with a misdemeanor, however defined, and sentenced to 3-6 months of probation (and/or house-arrest) and perhaps 50-100 hours of community service: no prison, no jail, no "sex-offender treatment," no quasi-totalitarian supervision, no electronic parole monitoring with an ankle-tether/"bracelet," no registration for life as a uniquely deviant and dangerous criminal, their mug-shots, names, and addresses on the internet for all to see and often send them hate-mail and death-threats of even resort to vigilante "justice." All of this is draconian, grotesquely so, and "cruel and unusual punishment" in the sense of being wholly gratuitous, completely unnecessary to protect anyone from anything.

    In a sane and just world teachers who sexually molest their students are hung by the neck. People who make excuses for them get the draconian punishment.

    Read More
    • Replies: @SMK
    Yes, women teachers who have love affairs and mere trysts with male students, biological men under age 18 and now even 18-year-olds in many jurisdictions, should be hung, in public I assume, in a country in which during the 1990's, the decade in which "we began to get tough on crime," the average time-served for murder was less than 6-years and the average time-served for all violent crimes (aggravated assault, robbery, rape, murder) was approximately 4-years. And these statistics are even more appalling, egregious, and outrageous than they first appear -since one can assume that 90% of these crimes are committed by recidivist male criminals.

    Yes, first-offenders convicted of a nonviolent and victimless and malum prohibitum "crime" -the only crime in which the "victim" enjoys the actus reus (i.e., the sex) more than the woman who "rapes" and "molests" him and is often if not usually the aggressor and initiator of his phantasmal and theoretical "victimization"- should be hung in a country in which brutes and savages in Detroit, Chicago, St. Louis, Baltimore, etc. are more or less free to rape and murder and commit other violent and mala in se crimes with little fear of being arrested, prosecuted, convicted, and imprisoned. Yes, women transporting biological men to sexual paradise should be hung in public in a country in which "antifa" terrorists are free to commit acts of violence and vandalism with little fear of punishment and no chance of serious punishment.

    What's the cause of your misogyny? Who knows for sure. But I would bet it's a result of visiting MRA websites and reading the articles and comments at these snake-pits and cesspools of pathological misogyny. And likewise for many other commenters.
    , @Backwoods Bob
    Meh.

    I find this kind of hyperbole a signal of lynch mob platinum status. I'd have loved doing my 8th grade sex education teacher.

    Jesus, we could have gotten extra credit maybe for romps in the hay, in a sane and just world.
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  136. jtgw says:
    @notanon
    the labor supply wasn't global in that era

    The labor supply was less mobile, but they still participated in a global economy. England imported cotton cloth from India in the 17th century but was exporting in the opposite direction by the 19th century, so enormous transportation costs ultimately counted for less than even larger differences in productivity.

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  137. jtgw says:
    @notanon
    right - it's the balance of supply and demand where in the current context the supply is potentially unlimited.

    so i'll change

    nutshell: if you don’t restrict the supply of labor you gradually turn into the 3rd world
     
    to

    nutshell: in the context of a potentially unlimited supply if you don’t restrict the supply of labor you gradually turn into the 3rd world
     

    I’m not sure what you mean by “potentially unlimited.” If we’re talking population growth, it’s “potentially unlimited” in the sense that it could go on forever assuming resources can be found to sustain the population. But I don’t see how the “potential” for growth would affect prices. What matters is the number of workers bidding for wages at any moment. And I’m not sure how whatever scenario you’re thinking of challenges the point I made that, in history, we’ve seen both labor supply and wages increase in tandem. If your economic theory predicts that increased labor supply must always lead to lower wages, your theory is wrong.

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  138. 1RW says:
    @Tiny Duck
    show me the study moron

    the burden of proof is on YOU

    No moron, the burden of proof is on you. You made an inflammatory, general statement without an ounce of support. The burden is on you.

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  139. FKA Max says: • Website
    @Rurik

    But leaving things as they are will, well, leave things as they are, with wretchedly bad treatment of a lot of children. Anyone have a better idea?
     
    birth control for the third world would be a great step towards preventing children in those regions from being so desperate and subject to depraved exploitation

    DNA mapping pedophiles for genetic, congenital predispositions (the British aristocracy for instance) and then screening for those traits at the zygote level for termination

    (there may be some potential future advantage for violent criminals in society, if a society ever requires a violent revolution for instance, but I can't think of even one potential advantage of having pedophiles born and/or exist)

    give them strychnine-laced child 'sex dolls'

    Or you could say it's been made legal so long as they only use the dolls, and then they could select between eight year old boys or five year old girls, and then have them walk though the 'brothel door' and fall into a pit of ravenous crocodiles or pigs or something

    ~ just trying to help out here Fred

    provocative article. Thanks

    birth control for the third world would be a great step towards preventing children in those regions from being so desperate and subject to depraved exploitation

    My thoughts exactly!

    “Saving the unborn”

    Domtila has spent the past 25 years running a crisis pregnancy center in Nairobi, Kenya that has saved the lives of many babies. She is a mother of six and a supernumerary of Opus Dei

    Source: http://www.unz.com/emargolis/mission-creep-in-darkest-africa/#comment-2069173

    [MORE]

    I just found out that Rick Santo[ru]m seems to have close ties to Opus Dei and Regnum Christi
    [...]
    Mr. Santorum has been a supporter of Regnum Christi, the lay wing of a conservative, cultish order of priests known as the Legion of Christ. In 2003, he was the keynote speaker at a Regnum Christi event in Chicago that drew protesters because the group’s charismatic founder, who had spent years denying that he had sexually abused seminarians, was scheduled to share the podium.

    http://www.unz.com/article/pew-research-report-suggests-a-strategy-for-securing-gopgap/#comment-2069158

    Vows Of Silence — Marcial Maciel, the Legion of Christ, and Regnum Christi

    Involvement of Rick Santorum and other conservative leaders with the Legionaries of Christ and Regnum Christi

    http://vowsofsilencefilm.com/news/santorum_legionaries.html


    The Vatican’s Watergate: Follow The Money

    But in some ways, Maciel’s most disturbing enabler was Mary Ann Glendon, Harvard Law Professor and former ambassador to the Vatican:

    [Glendon] taught at Regina Apostolorum Athenaeum, the Legion’s university in Rome, and advised in the planning that led to the order’s first university in America, University of Sacramento, Calif. In a 2002 letter for the Legion Web site she scoffed at the allegations against Maciel and praised his “radiant holiness” and “the success of Regnum Christi [the order's lay wing] and the Legionaries of Christ in advancing the New Evangelization.”

    https://www.theatlantic.com/daily-dish/archive/2010/04/the-vaticans-watergate-follow-the-money/188415/

    Mary Ann Glendon

    She is pro-life and “writes forcefully against the expansion of abortion rights.”https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Ann_Glendon

    Fr. Maciel, Pedophile, Psychopath and Legion of Christ Founder

    More information on the connection between pedophilia and psychopathy, here:

    Psychopathy in the Pedophile (From Psychopathy: Antisocial, Criminal, and Violent Behavior, P 304-320, 1998, Theodore Millon, Erik Simonsen, et al, eds.–See NCJ-179236) – http://www.unz.com/article/pizzagate/#comment-1673588

    Why Predators Are Attracted to Careers in the Clergy
    Some further insight into a serious phenomenon.
    Posted Apr 20, 2014

    https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/spycatcher/201404/why-predators-are-attracted-careers-in-the-clergy

    Former Priest reveals pedophiles in the Catholic Church and those who protect them

    Father Kevin Lee talks about why he chose to reveal the priests he knew were paedophiles or predatory homosexuals and why he left the priesthood after serving twenty years. He talks about his book, Unholy Silence – Covering Up the Sins of the Fathers and the difficulty he has had convincing Catholics that its still going on.

    Sacked priest Kevin Lee killed by typhoon

    http://www.smh.com.au/world/sacked-priest-kevin-lee-killed-by-typhoon-20131110-2xa4r.html

    Interesting take on this subject:

    Meet The Kakistocracy – Tjeerd Andringa on The Corbett Report

    Kakistocracy is defined as “rule by the worst.” Today on the program Dr. Tjeerd Andringa of the University of Groningen joins us to discuss his theory of how the kakistocracy uses child abuse to perpetuate their control, both over the victims of that abuse and its perpetrators. We also discuss what the vast majority of decent and moral people can do about this problem.

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  140. @jacques sheete
    Another Deluge.

    This time, not so much as a floating plank allowed.

    Not a Deluge, Fire next time.

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  141. Just my opinion, cannot back it up but seems as technology advances so does sickness affecting the mind increase in the general population.

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  142. Logan says:
    @jtgw
    I don't quite follow the definition of productivity that you're using. My understanding is that productivity is a property of a unit of input to the production process. So land has productivity, labor has productivity, capital goods have productivity. When it comes to productivity of labor, i.e the human input you're talking about, it isn't really about the amount of labor, e.g. number of hours worked, or even about the absolute quantity of stuff produced by one hour of human labor, but about the value of the product of one hour of human labor, what we call "marginal value product."

    The thing is that there are many ways to increase the MVP of labor. Working faster or harder is one way, but also using tools to increase or improve output is another way. The second method doesn't require increased effort or speed of production, but it still raises the MVP, which in turn leads to higher wages through the upbidding process I mentioned above. This is how capital accumulation and investing that accumulated capital on its own raises wages and living standards.

    The scenario you describe of vast numbers of people losing all value as inputs to production depends heavily on the idea that there is a fixed demand for goods and services. I would think all of human history throws serious doubt on that notion, but people will say "but this time is different." The thing is that, in most parts of the world, poverty is actually plummeting; the global trend is really in the opposite direction to the doomsday trend you're describing. The stagnation of real incomes seems to be a phenomenon peculiar to the developed countries and even there the incomes stagnated at a very high level from the perspective of world history. I don't think the evidence is there to justify the kind of global mass starvation scenario so many put forward.

    Productivity of labor is indeed what I was talking about. Sorry for not making that clear.

    Obviously I’m talking entirely about advanced economies and automation. Luddites have for centuries decried the loss of jobs to mechanization. This loss was often indeed very real and disastrous to individuals, families and communities, but overall mechanization has been a boon to humanity in the long run.

    My concern is that mechanization/automation is increasingly replacing humans. This is of course mainly in developed countries, where the cost of human labor is highest. For instance, it seems likely that most human vehicle drivers will be displaced by automatic system over the next decade or two.

    I make no pretense to be a trained economist, but it seems there are two categories of jobs: 1) Demand for a particular service exceeds supply, so employers compete with each other to recruit workers. These are, IMO, the only “real” jobs, ones with genuine economic demand. Over time, wages tend to be bid up or at least remain steady. 2) Jobs where the supply of potential workers significantly exceeds demand by employers, so workers are by definition simply widgets where one is unplugged and another is plugged in. Workers compete against each other for jobs, so wages tend to decline.

    I think automation is eating away the number of relatively well-paid Category 2 jobs, increasing the competition for those remaining, with the problem made worse by importing large numbers to compete for the same jobs.

    The world of the future where there are few jobs for anybody, with almost all work done by machines, will be an incredibly wealthy one. No need for anybody at all to starve. Indeed, no particular reason everybody can’t have a lifestyle equivalent to today’s middle class America.

    My concerns are more spiritual and psychological. American ghettos, Indian reservations here and in Canada, and white British slums do not paint a pretty picture of what life without work will be like.

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  143. jtgw says:

    Before you get too pessimistic about automation and mass redundancy of humanity, think about a scenario like this:

    Imagine a world where all our productive hours must be spent planting and harvesting our food. There is literally no time left over for other pursuits, or even if we do have occasional leisure time to do something like study the constellations, no one has the surplus capital to pay anyone to study the constellations. One consequence of this situation is that we can’t imagine a world where you could get paid just to stare at the night sky and think about stars; it’s self evident from the experience of daily life that no one could be paid for that sort of thing.

    Now think of our world, where we have the surplus capital to pay people to study astronomy, biology, literature, even economics! Inconceivable in an era when everyone was barely scraping by to survive.

    And yes, you could point out that even primitive agricultural societies had surplus to support an aristocracy and priesthood, but now we still do that but everyone else is also richer, and to a significant extent our modern academic priesthood is supported out of voluntary savings rather than extorted taxes and tithes.

    What allowed this development? Capital investment in labor-saving devices. Instead of putting farmers permanently out of work, it enabled them to pursue new activities.

    What I’m saying is that, once labor is freed up in one sector, all of history shows us that that labor can be redirected to other pursuits that would have been scarcely conceivable before.

    What this means, though, is that I can’t give you a firm answer of what today’s workers would do if, say, all of our current service industries were somehow automated, e.g. robots did all the waitressing and so forth. But to get an idea, imagine being paid to play video games all day just to rate them. If video game production could be fully automated, that frees up a lot of capital to employ game reviewers that in our current world need to bus tables to earn a living.

    Add to this Mises’ law of association (an expanded version of Ricardo’s law of comparative advantage): even if your competitor is more productive than you in all lines of work, it is still more profitable for your competitor to focus all productive hours in his most productive line of work and then leave you to produce the remainder. This is relevant for, say, an owner of a robot that can do everything, but some things more efficiently than others.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Logan
    Thanks for the reply. This is indeed pretty much what has happened, eventually, in all previous episodes of technological unemployment. I hope you are right and this is what will happen this time.

    I think your point is to some extent a variant on the pretty common response that people will be freed up to engage in art, music, literature and philosophy rather than drudging away to make a living. And that will no doubt be the case for some.

    The problem is that it is pretty clearly intelligence-based. Someone with a two-digit IQ is probably in general not really capable of such things and therefore cannot build his life around them.

    As always, those with well above average IQ will be fine. But those with below average IQ, who by definition are 50% of the population, much higher in some sub-groups, will not be.

    If we look at the sub-cultures I mentioned: Indians (feather), ghetto blacks, white Appalachians, white English slumdwellers, Australian abos, what do we see? These are subcultures that exist without real work but at a material level higher than their ancestors enjoyed, sometime a much higher one.

    Do we see a flowering of art, music, literature and philosophy? I don't think so.

    We see demoralization, degradation and despair. Criminality, drugs, abuse.

    Sadly, that may be the future of much (most?) of a humanity that has become irrelevant to the real productive economy. But, as stated, I really, really hope I'm wrong.

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  144. @Lisa
    @Rurik. Re the British aristocracy. I have heard that the private boarding schools they send their boys to are ghastly places, renowned for producing lifelong sexual deviants. It is not necessarily the schools themselves in all cases, but more a case of being away from family and knowing every minute of your life that your parents stuck you there because they didn't wish to be bothered by your sustained presence, much less actually raising you. Prince Charles is a good example of what they crank out. As is the late (not late enough) Lord Mountbatten who, it is said, acted as procurer for Charles.

    I recently read C.S. Lewis’s autobiography, which is not one of his more popular titles among his conservative-type audience, and I now see why. He casually mentions the very atmosphere you describe in English boarding schools, with rampant homosexual conduct. Though he himself says with some gratitude that that was not one of his particular temptations.

    Conditioned as we are to believe what the media tells us about sexual deviance, it’s still surprising when their narratives are punctured… even when we know they’re utterly full of shit.

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    • Replies: @AKAHorace
    I recently read C.S. Lewis’s autobiography, which is not one of his more popular titles among his conservative-type audience, and I now see why. He casually mentions the very atmosphere you describe in English boarding schools, with rampant homosexual conduct. Though he himself says with some gratitude that that was not one of his particular temptations.

    Do you mean "Surprised by Joy" ?

    He is not as angry at the rampant homosexuality among the students as you would expect from someone of that time. He says that while it is a sin most of the condemnation of it is more from the legal problems that it produces, while far worst sins, the cruelty and jockeying for power among the boys are far more sin full. He says that because he was not tempted by it he will not spend much time denouncing it.
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  145. AKAHorace says:
    @secretaryns
    I recently read C.S. Lewis's autobiography, which is not one of his more popular titles among his conservative-type audience, and I now see why. He casually mentions the very atmosphere you describe in English boarding schools, with rampant homosexual conduct. Though he himself says with some gratitude that that was not one of his particular temptations.

    Conditioned as we are to believe what the media tells us about sexual deviance, it's still surprising when their narratives are punctured... even when we know they're utterly full of shit.

    I recently read C.S. Lewis’s autobiography, which is not one of his more popular titles among his conservative-type audience, and I now see why. He casually mentions the very atmosphere you describe in English boarding schools, with rampant homosexual conduct. Though he himself says with some gratitude that that was not one of his particular temptations.

    Do you mean “Surprised by Joy” ?

    He is not as angry at the rampant homosexuality among the students as you would expect from someone of that time. He says that while it is a sin most of the condemnation of it is more from the legal problems that it produces, while far worst sins, the cruelty and jockeying for power among the boys are far more sin full. He says that because he was not tempted by it he will not spend much time denouncing it.

    Read More
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  146. Logan says:
    @jtgw
    Before you get too pessimistic about automation and mass redundancy of humanity, think about a scenario like this:

    Imagine a world where all our productive hours must be spent planting and harvesting our food. There is literally no time left over for other pursuits, or even if we do have occasional leisure time to do something like study the constellations, no one has the surplus capital to pay anyone to study the constellations. One consequence of this situation is that we can't imagine a world where you could get paid just to stare at the night sky and think about stars; it's self evident from the experience of daily life that no one could be paid for that sort of thing.

    Now think of our world, where we have the surplus capital to pay people to study astronomy, biology, literature, even economics! Inconceivable in an era when everyone was barely scraping by to survive.

    And yes, you could point out that even primitive agricultural societies had surplus to support an aristocracy and priesthood, but now we still do that but everyone else is also richer, and to a significant extent our modern academic priesthood is supported out of voluntary savings rather than extorted taxes and tithes.

    What allowed this development? Capital investment in labor-saving devices. Instead of putting farmers permanently out of work, it enabled them to pursue new activities.

    What I'm saying is that, once labor is freed up in one sector, all of history shows us that that labor can be redirected to other pursuits that would have been scarcely conceivable before.

    What this means, though, is that I can't give you a firm answer of what today's workers would do if, say, all of our current service industries were somehow automated, e.g. robots did all the waitressing and so forth. But to get an idea, imagine being paid to play video games all day just to rate them. If video game production could be fully automated, that frees up a lot of capital to employ game reviewers that in our current world need to bus tables to earn a living.

    Add to this Mises' law of association (an expanded version of Ricardo's law of comparative advantage): even if your competitor is more productive than you in all lines of work, it is still more profitable for your competitor to focus all productive hours in his most productive line of work and then leave you to produce the remainder. This is relevant for, say, an owner of a robot that can do everything, but some things more efficiently than others.

    Thanks for the reply. This is indeed pretty much what has happened, eventually, in all previous episodes of technological unemployment. I hope you are right and this is what will happen this time.

    I think your point is to some extent a variant on the pretty common response that people will be freed up to engage in art, music, literature and philosophy rather than drudging away to make a living. And that will no doubt be the case for some.

    The problem is that it is pretty clearly intelligence-based. Someone with a two-digit IQ is probably in general not really capable of such things and therefore cannot build his life around them.

    As always, those with well above average IQ will be fine. But those with below average IQ, who by definition are 50% of the population, much higher in some sub-groups, will not be.

    If we look at the sub-cultures I mentioned: Indians (feather), ghetto blacks, white Appalachians, white English slumdwellers, Australian abos, what do we see? These are subcultures that exist without real work but at a material level higher than their ancestors enjoyed, sometime a much higher one.

    Do we see a flowering of art, music, literature and philosophy? I don’t think so.

    We see demoralization, degradation and despair. Criminality, drugs, abuse.

    Sadly, that may be the future of much (most?) of a humanity that has become irrelevant to the real productive economy. But, as stated, I really, really hope I’m wrong.

    Read More
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  147. SMK says: • Website
    @TWS
    In a sane and just world teachers who sexually molest their students are hung by the neck. People who make excuses for them get the draconian punishment.

    Yes, women teachers who have love affairs and mere trysts with male students, biological men under age 18 and now even 18-year-olds in many jurisdictions, should be hung, in public I assume, in a country in which during the 1990′s, the decade in which “we began to get tough on crime,” the average time-served for murder was less than 6-years and the average time-served for all violent crimes (aggravated assault, robbery, rape, murder) was approximately 4-years. And these statistics are even more appalling, egregious, and outrageous than they first appear -since one can assume that 90% of these crimes are committed by recidivist male criminals.

    Yes, first-offenders convicted of a nonviolent and victimless and malum prohibitum “crime” -the only crime in which the “victim” enjoys the actus reus (i.e., the sex) more than the woman who “rapes” and “molests” him and is often if not usually the aggressor and initiator of his phantasmal and theoretical “victimization”- should be hung in a country in which brutes and savages in Detroit, Chicago, St. Louis, Baltimore, etc. are more or less free to rape and murder and commit other violent and mala in se crimes with little fear of being arrested, prosecuted, convicted, and imprisoned. Yes, women transporting biological men to sexual paradise should be hung in public in a country in which “antifa” terrorists are free to commit acts of violence and vandalism with little fear of punishment and no chance of serious punishment.

    What’s the cause of your misogyny? Who knows for sure. But I would bet it’s a result of visiting MRA websites and reading the articles and comments at these snake-pits and cesspools of pathological misogyny. And likewise for many other commenters.

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    • Replies: @TWS
    I get it Humbert. You feel sympathy for rapists. As if the opinion of an apologist for a pedophile matters to anyone. Go peddle your filth in Hollywood or on Epstein island.

    MRA? Who cares about that? I'm writing about criminals who prey on their students. Male female I don't care. You read like a commercial for nambla.

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  148. TWS says:
    @SMK
    Yes, women teachers who have love affairs and mere trysts with male students, biological men under age 18 and now even 18-year-olds in many jurisdictions, should be hung, in public I assume, in a country in which during the 1990's, the decade in which "we began to get tough on crime," the average time-served for murder was less than 6-years and the average time-served for all violent crimes (aggravated assault, robbery, rape, murder) was approximately 4-years. And these statistics are even more appalling, egregious, and outrageous than they first appear -since one can assume that 90% of these crimes are committed by recidivist male criminals.

    Yes, first-offenders convicted of a nonviolent and victimless and malum prohibitum "crime" -the only crime in which the "victim" enjoys the actus reus (i.e., the sex) more than the woman who "rapes" and "molests" him and is often if not usually the aggressor and initiator of his phantasmal and theoretical "victimization"- should be hung in a country in which brutes and savages in Detroit, Chicago, St. Louis, Baltimore, etc. are more or less free to rape and murder and commit other violent and mala in se crimes with little fear of being arrested, prosecuted, convicted, and imprisoned. Yes, women transporting biological men to sexual paradise should be hung in public in a country in which "antifa" terrorists are free to commit acts of violence and vandalism with little fear of punishment and no chance of serious punishment.

    What's the cause of your misogyny? Who knows for sure. But I would bet it's a result of visiting MRA websites and reading the articles and comments at these snake-pits and cesspools of pathological misogyny. And likewise for many other commenters.

    I get it Humbert. You feel sympathy for rapists. As if the opinion of an apologist for a pedophile matters to anyone. Go peddle your filth in Hollywood or on Epstein island.

    MRA? Who cares about that? I’m writing about criminals who prey on their students. Male female I don’t care. You read like a commercial for nambla.

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  149. There is another side of this story. People who wait before they have their first encounter become better porn stars.
    Someone who worked in the porn industry in the 70s told me that the ones waited to lose their virginity (male and female) are the best porn stars. I heard other examples since. What they are talking about are people who show up on time, sober. They follow instructions and are nice to the cast and crew.
    You never hear this in the sex education programs. No one ever tells the kids to zip it up for a few years and they will be a star.

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  150. Jon Orton says:
    @TWS
    According to the linked article she refused any plea deal that required her to register. That went well for her. She has no one to blame but herself on any of it.

    Indeed she doesn’t. In fact my reading of the article was that she was so adamantly opposed registering as a sex offender (a key requirement to be offered a plea bargain) that she refused the plea deal.

    Which leads me to wonder why she did refuse. Was the plea bargain badly explained and left her thinking that registration would limit her future employment opportunities? Life in prison will certainly limit those.

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  151. @Tony
    "But I can’t look at homosexual male porn either. Or morbidly obese women, or anal sex, or bondage, or any number of other things. "
    Who you trying to kid Backwoods, Most of us saw Deliverence. We know what you guys do.

    Hilarious, Tony.

    But at least we’re doin’ it while y’all is just watchin’.

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  152. @larry lurker

    The dark web – pffft. Too much effort
     
    If you know how to download, install and open a program/app and how to use a web browser, you can be on the Tor network within 90 seconds of reading this comment.

    and I refuse to believe the government isn’t watching every click you make. They can defeat everything. There is no anonymity.
     
    This might have been true 30 years ago; it's not true now. Tor might be broken as far as deanonymizing users/hidden services, i.e., being able to tell who is communicating with whom, but they can't break the encryption itself and read intercepted communications. The feds would have had a much harder time convicting Ross William Ulbricht (Silk Road) if they hadn't managed to tackle him in a library with his laptop still open.

    There's a reason the FBI is pressuring Apple to weaken its crypto; it works.

    That may be reasonable for you to believe, larry.

    I just can’t take someone’s word where prison is the consequence.

    Studying up on it just doesn’t seem worth my time. I’m sure I could get on quick, yeah – but the research on the whole thing, the way the security works and so forth…

    not gonna happen.

    Read More
    • Replies: @larry lurker

    I just can’t take someone’s word where prison is the consequence.
     
    Nor should you! But yeah, I think if you looked into it you'd come away confident that at least the modern cryptographic primitives (low-level algorithms) are secure. Proper implementation is another matter.

    Studying up on it just doesn’t seem worth my time. I’m sure I could get on quick, yeah – but the research on the whole thing, the way the security works and so forth…

    not gonna happen.
     
    Fair enough, but for anyone else who's interested: Stanford's Dan Boneh has a really good MOOC on Coursea, and somebody uploaded all the videos to YouTube so they're available year-round. He'll at least be able to convince you that the (completely impractical) one-time pad is secure (it's the only provably secure cipher that exists.)
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  153. JSM says:
    @Ris_Eruwaedhiel
    The real argument is that you're born when God wants you to be born and die when God wants you to do. So, birth control is "wrong" because it circumvents God's will. The Duggars with their 20 kids are adhering to this belief.

    In the real world, almost any family, outside of the rich, who adhered to this belief would wallow in poverty and end up with kids dead from malnutrition or disease. But that's God's will, so it's okay.

    Same argument against suicide and euthanasia.

    The real argument is that you’re born when God wants you to be born and die when God wants you to do. So, birth control is “wrong” because it circumvents God’s will.

    While I can agree that abortion, the murder accusation holds water, barrier methods of birth control are not different than abstention. If abstention is ok, so are barrier methods. Preventing egg and sperm meeting is and always has been ethical.

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  154. @TWS
    In a sane and just world teachers who sexually molest their students are hung by the neck. People who make excuses for them get the draconian punishment.

    Meh.

    I find this kind of hyperbole a signal of lynch mob platinum status. I’d have loved doing my 8th grade sex education teacher.

    Jesus, we could have gotten extra credit maybe for romps in the hay, in a sane and just world.

    Read More
    • Replies: @TWS
    So you're cool with Weinstein polanskiing your 13 year old daughter. Or Sheen railing your 13 year old son.

    Maybe you should keep your 14year old spank bank to yourself. Fantasizing about Mrs Juggs while you wish you weren't getting your head stuffed in a locker is better kept private.
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  155. Jon Orton says:
    @Mario964
    Fred Reed's suggestion about the virtual pedopornography is nothing new.
    Moreover it's just a way of classifying the perverts' behavior as a chronic human illness that can't be healed and therefore must be accepted under certain circumstances. Oh so handy! The usual excuse for abetting evil and offering it a free pass.

    In Japan consumption of pedoporn cartoons, anime and manga is widespread, including incestuous relationship which is quite popular.
    The law states that possession and distribution of imagery involving real children is illegal but does not outlaw similar images in manga and anime and considers manga, anime and computer graphics are outside its scope.

    From The Guardian:
    "The new law's limited reach is unlikely to change social attitudes towards the depiction of child sexual exploitation in manga and anime. Sexual imagery involving children is not difficult to find in Tokyo, where men can occasionally be seen on trains flicking through manga showing, for example, scantily clad schoolgirls."

    Egregious example of chutzpah to the maximum extent: In an attempt to safeguard artistic freedoms, the bill states that "attention should be paid in applying the law in a manner not to infringe upon the rights of the people. without due cause in relation to academic studies, cultural and artistic activities and reports"

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/05/japan-bans-real-life-child-sexual-abuse-material-but-cartoons-remain-legal

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/27/japan-urged-to-ban-manga-child-abuse-images

    No surprise from the Japanese people that up to day could never come to terms with unspeakable atrocities committed by their forefathers.

    Evil is evil is evil.

    Evil might be evil but Anime isn’t realistic drawing and realistic drawing isn’t an actual child.

    If people are so frail minded as to believe the slippery slope to actual child expoitation is via viewing online imagery then allow me to indicate the way this slippery slope is actually going…

    In the UK in 2008 Robul Hoque was convicted of the made-up-sounding crime of producing ‘indecent pseudo-photographs’ – that is, the images were so realistic that they were almost indistinguishable from real photos. In other words he was convicted of having drawings that were quite good, even though no actual children were involved.

    In 2014 he was convicted of possessing Japanese-style manga images and anime cartoons. Several of these images depicted young girls exposing themselves and engaging in sexual acts. He was given a 9 month suspended sentence and had to register on the sex offenders list. Anime is several degrees away from ‘indecent pseudo-photographs’

    That’s the way the slippery slope is heading.

    How long before a stick figure is deemed to be beyond the pale? Tit-less, it’ll obviously be the drawing of a prepubescent girl and if no little triangle is drawn depicting a skirt then it’s a naked prepubescent girl.

    Enjoy your freedom to think what you like whilst you still can.

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    • Replies: @flyingtiger
    Play it safe, ban all art!
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  156. @Backwoods Bob
    That may be reasonable for you to believe, larry.

    I just can't take someone's word where prison is the consequence.

    Studying up on it just doesn't seem worth my time. I'm sure I could get on quick, yeah - but the research on the whole thing, the way the security works and so forth...

    not gonna happen.

    I just can’t take someone’s word where prison is the consequence.

    Nor should you! But yeah, I think if you looked into it you’d come away confident that at least the modern cryptographic primitives (low-level algorithms) are secure. Proper implementation is another matter.

    Studying up on it just doesn’t seem worth my time. I’m sure I could get on quick, yeah – but the research on the whole thing, the way the security works and so forth…

    not gonna happen.

    Fair enough, but for anyone else who’s interested: Stanford’s Dan Boneh has a really good MOOC on Coursea, and somebody uploaded all the videos to YouTube so they’re available year-round. He’ll at least be able to convince you that the (completely impractical) one-time pad is secure (it’s the only provably secure cipher that exists.)

    Read More
    • Replies: @larry lurker

    He’ll at least be able to convince you that the (completely impractical) one-time pad is secure (it’s the only provably secure cipher that exists.)
     
    Just attempted to rewatch this particular video on the channel that I linked and their version froze up within a few seconds. So here's a non-freezing version of that video about the one-time pad that someone helpfully linked in the comments.
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  157. @larry lurker

    I just can’t take someone’s word where prison is the consequence.
     
    Nor should you! But yeah, I think if you looked into it you'd come away confident that at least the modern cryptographic primitives (low-level algorithms) are secure. Proper implementation is another matter.

    Studying up on it just doesn’t seem worth my time. I’m sure I could get on quick, yeah – but the research on the whole thing, the way the security works and so forth…

    not gonna happen.
     
    Fair enough, but for anyone else who's interested: Stanford's Dan Boneh has a really good MOOC on Coursea, and somebody uploaded all the videos to YouTube so they're available year-round. He'll at least be able to convince you that the (completely impractical) one-time pad is secure (it's the only provably secure cipher that exists.)

    He’ll at least be able to convince you that the (completely impractical) one-time pad is secure (it’s the only provably secure cipher that exists.)

    Just attempted to rewatch this particular video on the channel that I linked and their version froze up within a few seconds. So here’s a non-freezing version of that video about the one-time pad that someone helpfully linked in the comments.

    Read More
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  158. @Truth
    That's a brilliant idea, Fred.

    Put raw, albeit genetically modified, meat in front of tigers... and take the cages away.

    Acutually you are on the money, somewhat. They have already decriminalized viewing child porn in England.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4266056/Paedophiles-shouldn-t-face-charges-child-porn.html

    I think it is pretty safe to assume that “top cop” in Britain who is promoting okaying kiddie porn is a child rapist himself.

    That said, some problems have no solution. This is one of them, but ALL child molesters should be executed because there is no cure except death.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Truth
    Some people suggest castration. I think it's an idea worth considering.
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  159. TWS says:
    @Backwoods Bob
    Meh.

    I find this kind of hyperbole a signal of lynch mob platinum status. I'd have loved doing my 8th grade sex education teacher.

    Jesus, we could have gotten extra credit maybe for romps in the hay, in a sane and just world.

    So you’re cool with Weinstein polanskiing your 13 year old daughter. Or Sheen railing your 13 year old son.

    Maybe you should keep your 14year old spank bank to yourself. Fantasizing about Mrs Juggs while you wish you weren’t getting your head stuffed in a locker is better kept private.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Backwoods Bob
    lol.

    This topic seems to be the one place where dark triad personalities lose their mask. Before I studied personality disorders/character disorders it always struck me as odd seeing it.

    In prisoners for example, all these felons of every stripe rail about the cho-mo's/chesters, spit on them and assault them - it's incredible how incessant and out of control crazy it is.

    The murderers, robbers, rapists, etc. - the most despicable and dangerous people - they're the loudest in their condemnation and assaults on the pedophiles.

    Because they're the most violent, despicable characters in prison and the one group they can get away with attacking is the pedophiles. It has nothing to do with the crime. It is sadism finding a way to explode out and do harm.

    Same for you. This is the place you think you can be abusive towards others and get away with it. My God, who do you think you are fooling with this act? You run a shelter for abused teens, right?

    lol - no, you are the very person to be kept away from the teens you are pretending to protect while in actuality just being nasty and malicious. Even more so with teens because they aren't adults who can stand up to a would-be bully such as yourself.

    Sheen would be safer than you.
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  160. Rurik says: • Website
    @RobinG
    You're hilarious. That kind of pure love (as her mother would have told you) doesn't require fornication. And as for [huge eye roll] youthful idealism, how sweet for you.

    (I almost posted a memorable conversation from the in-crowd lunch table at my HS, but thought better of it.)

    [huge eye roll]

    so cynical

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    • Replies: @RobinG
    "so cynical" .............. Well, I try, ;)

    HARVEY WEINSTEIN'S EX-MOSSAD SPIES


    In the fall of 2016, Harvey Weinstein set out to suppress allegations that he had sexually harassed or assaulted numerous women. He began to hire private security agencies to collect information on the women and the journalists trying to expose the allegations. According to dozens of pages of documents, and seven people directly involved in the effort, the firms that Weinstein hired included Kroll, which is one of the world’s largest corporate-intelligence companies, and Black Cube, an enterprise run largely by former officers of Mossad and other Israeli intelligence agencies. Black Cube, which has branches in Tel Aviv, London, and Paris, offers its clients the skills of operatives “highly experienced and trained in Israel’s elite military and governmental intelligence units,” according to its literature. https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/harvey-weinsteins-army-of-spies
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  161. Truth says:
    @woodNfish_too
    I think it is pretty safe to assume that "top cop" in Britain who is promoting okaying kiddie porn is a child rapist himself.

    That said, some problems have no solution. This is one of them, but ALL child molesters should be executed because there is no cure except death.

    Some people suggest castration. I think it’s an idea worth considering.

    Read More
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  162. Yes, my better idea is the Holy Roman Empire.

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  163. RobinG says:
    @Rurik

    [huge eye roll]
     
    so cynical

    “so cynical” ………….. Well, I try, ;)

    HARVEY WEINSTEIN’S EX-MOSSAD SPIES

    In the fall of 2016, Harvey Weinstein set out to suppress allegations that he had sexually harassed or assaulted numerous women. He began to hire private security agencies to collect information on the women and the journalists trying to expose the allegations. According to dozens of pages of documents, and seven people directly involved in the effort, the firms that Weinstein hired included Kroll, which is one of the world’s largest corporate-intelligence companies, and Black Cube, an enterprise run largely by former officers of Mossad and other Israeli intelligence agencies. Black Cube, which has branches in Tel Aviv, London, and Paris, offers its clients the skills of operatives “highly experienced and trained in Israel’s elite military and governmental intelligence units,” according to its literature. https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/harvey-weinsteins-army-of-spies

    Read More
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  164. tarquin says:

    No, I am NOT going to research this myself (I can easily imagine getting arrested on suspicion just for looking this stuff up), but my understanding is, there’s US case law that cartoon child images (including high-quality digital creations) don’t count as child pornography. Anybody know? As usual, Fred applies good thinking to a problem. And raises some questions worth serious discussion.

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  165. One element that should be emphasized, Fred, and that’s how stunningly vile the people are who identify themselves by their perversions and make a so-called lifestyle of them.

    Example: Something from a queer organization popped up on my Facebook feed, and I commented by asking how to block it. The replies I got from the on-line homo trolls were shocking — and I say this as an old man whose been around the world and seen some of the seriously ugly side of humanity. You really can’t find people any worse than the kid porn people, and just jacking off while viewing a kid being abused isn’t all they’re doing.

    The down side of digital kid porn is that it’s going to be pouring more gas on a fire where the internet is already pouring gas on a fire stoked by the worst people you’ve never dreamed of.

    A quote (I think) attributed to C. S. Lewis went something like, “Man without God sooner or later gets around to doing the worst thing he can think of.” The world of kid porn is proof Lewis was onto something true.

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  166. @TWS
    So you're cool with Weinstein polanskiing your 13 year old daughter. Or Sheen railing your 13 year old son.

    Maybe you should keep your 14year old spank bank to yourself. Fantasizing about Mrs Juggs while you wish you weren't getting your head stuffed in a locker is better kept private.

    lol.

    This topic seems to be the one place where dark triad personalities lose their mask. Before I studied personality disorders/character disorders it always struck me as odd seeing it.

    In prisoners for example, all these felons of every stripe rail about the cho-mo’s/chesters, spit on them and assault them – it’s incredible how incessant and out of control crazy it is.

    The murderers, robbers, rapists, etc. – the most despicable and dangerous people – they’re the loudest in their condemnation and assaults on the pedophiles.

    Because they’re the most violent, despicable characters in prison and the one group they can get away with attacking is the pedophiles. It has nothing to do with the crime. It is sadism finding a way to explode out and do harm.

    Same for you. This is the place you think you can be abusive towards others and get away with it. My God, who do you think you are fooling with this act? You run a shelter for abused teens, right?

    lol – no, you are the very person to be kept away from the teens you are pretending to protect while in actuality just being nasty and malicious. Even more so with teens because they aren’t adults who can stand up to a would-be bully such as yourself.

    Sheen would be safer than you.

    Read More
    • Agree: SMK
    • Replies: @anonymous
    It is curious that so many feel no compunction when they loudly agree with the most murderous, sexually violent black prisoners on the matter of pedophilia. They seem to think these killers and rapists are the best to judge because of their lifelong criminal experience.
    , @TWS
    And another subject you know nothing about. Sure at one time child molesters were routinely abused in prison however thanks to morally degenerate people like you sex offenders are common in prison.

    You know nothing about me except I see nothing wrong in seeing common law felons hung for their crimes. I know a little more about you because you've demonstrated ignorance and indifference on a couple of subjects I am very familiar with.

    Whatever you paid for your 'studies of personality disorders' you should ask for a refund.
    , @SMK
    A pedophile is a man (including biological men under age 18 who are absurdly defined as "children") with a sexual fixation on and obsession with prepubescent children. A biological man of 35 or 25 or 15 who is aroused by and attracted to prepubertal boys or girls, exclusively or predominantly, is a pedophile. An adult woman of 20 or 30 who has sex with a biological man of 15 is not a "pedophile." In fact, it's debatable if a women can even be a pedophile, accurately defined and understood, under the APA definition, for the same reason that few if any women are fetishists in the male sense. The fundamental reason is that they don't have penises and, consequently, they don''t need cues and images for arousal to will and sustain an erection and ejaculate whether in coitus or onanistically.

    I glad to see a few others responding to this lunatic and ignoramus, as stupid as he's evil and insane and malicious. You may be right as to the causes and motives of his hatred of "pedophiles," women and men, who aren't pedophiles. Roy Moore is now being presumed guilty until proven innocent beyond any doubt and vilified as a "pedophile" by Mas Boot, the blood-thirsty neocon "chicken hawk," and many others. Whatever one thinks of his antics with a 14-year-old girl, if true, he's not a pedophile.
    , @notanon

    The murderers, robbers, rapists, etc. – the most despicable and dangerous people – they’re the loudest in their condemnation and assaults on the pedophiles.
     
    it's true people outside prison assume this behavior is a moral issue but as you imply, it's not - it's simply the most predatory people preying on the weakest.

    extremely violent torturer/killer type pedophiles do fine in prison.
    , @SMK
    This sadistic lunatic is incapable of using facts and logic to refute arguments based on logic and facts but simply accuses anyone who doesn't think an adult woman should be hung in public for having sex with a biological man under age 18, even those as old as 16 or 17, of being a"pedophile."

    Incidentally, the generic age of consent is 16 in most states and 17 in few others. So "pedophilia," as defined by this lunatic and ignoramus, is legal in most states. So a majority of state legislators -the politicians responsible for enacting and imposing these hideously draconian/Orwellian punishments for "sex offenders" who aren't rapists and pedophiles or violent and degenerate- are "pedophiles." I assume that well over 95% of people in the U.S. and almost 100% of Europeans would oppose hanging or other methods of execution for adult men and women who have consensual sex with pubescent teenagers under age 18. So almost everyone is a "pedophile"!

    I wonder why his favorites method of executing adult women who transport biological men to sexual paradise is hanging. I think his love of hanging is erotic. This sadistic degenerate probably masturbates as he fantasizes about all the innocuous women crying and shaking in fear with a noose around their necks and with their arms and legs in shackles before they are hung, hanging lifeless after their necks snap and they urinate and defecate in their ugly denim unisex jumpsuits. Or perhaps he envisions them naked.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  167. anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Backwoods Bob
    lol.

    This topic seems to be the one place where dark triad personalities lose their mask. Before I studied personality disorders/character disorders it always struck me as odd seeing it.

    In prisoners for example, all these felons of every stripe rail about the cho-mo's/chesters, spit on them and assault them - it's incredible how incessant and out of control crazy it is.

    The murderers, robbers, rapists, etc. - the most despicable and dangerous people - they're the loudest in their condemnation and assaults on the pedophiles.

    Because they're the most violent, despicable characters in prison and the one group they can get away with attacking is the pedophiles. It has nothing to do with the crime. It is sadism finding a way to explode out and do harm.

    Same for you. This is the place you think you can be abusive towards others and get away with it. My God, who do you think you are fooling with this act? You run a shelter for abused teens, right?

    lol - no, you are the very person to be kept away from the teens you are pretending to protect while in actuality just being nasty and malicious. Even more so with teens because they aren't adults who can stand up to a would-be bully such as yourself.

    Sheen would be safer than you.

    It is curious that so many feel no compunction when they loudly agree with the most murderous, sexually violent black prisoners on the matter of pedophilia. They seem to think these killers and rapists are the best to judge because of their lifelong criminal experience.

    Read More
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  168. TWS says:
    @Backwoods Bob
    lol.

    This topic seems to be the one place where dark triad personalities lose their mask. Before I studied personality disorders/character disorders it always struck me as odd seeing it.

    In prisoners for example, all these felons of every stripe rail about the cho-mo's/chesters, spit on them and assault them - it's incredible how incessant and out of control crazy it is.

    The murderers, robbers, rapists, etc. - the most despicable and dangerous people - they're the loudest in their condemnation and assaults on the pedophiles.

    Because they're the most violent, despicable characters in prison and the one group they can get away with attacking is the pedophiles. It has nothing to do with the crime. It is sadism finding a way to explode out and do harm.

    Same for you. This is the place you think you can be abusive towards others and get away with it. My God, who do you think you are fooling with this act? You run a shelter for abused teens, right?

    lol - no, you are the very person to be kept away from the teens you are pretending to protect while in actuality just being nasty and malicious. Even more so with teens because they aren't adults who can stand up to a would-be bully such as yourself.

    Sheen would be safer than you.

    And another subject you know nothing about. Sure at one time child molesters were routinely abused in prison however thanks to morally degenerate people like you sex offenders are common in prison.

    You know nothing about me except I see nothing wrong in seeing common law felons hung for their crimes. I know a little more about you because you’ve demonstrated ignorance and indifference on a couple of subjects I am very familiar with.

    Whatever you paid for your ‘studies of personality disorders’ you should ask for a refund.

    Read More
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  169. SMK says: • Website
    @Backwoods Bob
    lol.

    This topic seems to be the one place where dark triad personalities lose their mask. Before I studied personality disorders/character disorders it always struck me as odd seeing it.

    In prisoners for example, all these felons of every stripe rail about the cho-mo's/chesters, spit on them and assault them - it's incredible how incessant and out of control crazy it is.

    The murderers, robbers, rapists, etc. - the most despicable and dangerous people - they're the loudest in their condemnation and assaults on the pedophiles.

    Because they're the most violent, despicable characters in prison and the one group they can get away with attacking is the pedophiles. It has nothing to do with the crime. It is sadism finding a way to explode out and do harm.

    Same for you. This is the place you think you can be abusive towards others and get away with it. My God, who do you think you are fooling with this act? You run a shelter for abused teens, right?

    lol - no, you are the very person to be kept away from the teens you are pretending to protect while in actuality just being nasty and malicious. Even more so with teens because they aren't adults who can stand up to a would-be bully such as yourself.

    Sheen would be safer than you.

    A pedophile is a man (including biological men under age 18 who are absurdly defined as “children”) with a sexual fixation on and obsession with prepubescent children. A biological man of 35 or 25 or 15 who is aroused by and attracted to prepubertal boys or girls, exclusively or predominantly, is a pedophile. An adult woman of 20 or 30 who has sex with a biological man of 15 is not a “pedophile.” In fact, it’s debatable if a women can even be a pedophile, accurately defined and understood, under the APA definition, for the same reason that few if any women are fetishists in the male sense. The fundamental reason is that they don’t have penises and, consequently, they don”t need cues and images for arousal to will and sustain an erection and ejaculate whether in coitus or onanistically.

    I glad to see a few others responding to this lunatic and ignoramus, as stupid as he’s evil and insane and malicious. You may be right as to the causes and motives of his hatred of “pedophiles,” women and men, who aren’t pedophiles. Roy Moore is now being presumed guilty until proven innocent beyond any doubt and vilified as a “pedophile” by Mas Boot, the blood-thirsty neocon “chicken hawk,” and many others. Whatever one thinks of his antics with a 14-year-old girl, if true, he’s not a pedophile.

    Read More
    • Replies: @TWS
    I just went to your website. I had the best laugh I've had all day. Man you are a literal parody of a pervert. I'm sorry honestly that I mocked you. It's too easy. Good luck with your issues and good bye.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  170. notanon says:
    @Backwoods Bob
    lol.

    This topic seems to be the one place where dark triad personalities lose their mask. Before I studied personality disorders/character disorders it always struck me as odd seeing it.

    In prisoners for example, all these felons of every stripe rail about the cho-mo's/chesters, spit on them and assault them - it's incredible how incessant and out of control crazy it is.

    The murderers, robbers, rapists, etc. - the most despicable and dangerous people - they're the loudest in their condemnation and assaults on the pedophiles.

    Because they're the most violent, despicable characters in prison and the one group they can get away with attacking is the pedophiles. It has nothing to do with the crime. It is sadism finding a way to explode out and do harm.

    Same for you. This is the place you think you can be abusive towards others and get away with it. My God, who do you think you are fooling with this act? You run a shelter for abused teens, right?

    lol - no, you are the very person to be kept away from the teens you are pretending to protect while in actuality just being nasty and malicious. Even more so with teens because they aren't adults who can stand up to a would-be bully such as yourself.

    Sheen would be safer than you.

    The murderers, robbers, rapists, etc. – the most despicable and dangerous people – they’re the loudest in their condemnation and assaults on the pedophiles.

    it’s true people outside prison assume this behavior is a moral issue but as you imply, it’s not – it’s simply the most predatory people preying on the weakest.

    extremely violent torturer/killer type pedophiles do fine in prison.

    Read More
    • Replies: @FKA Max

    extremely violent torturer/killer type pedophiles do fine in prison.
     
    Good and important point.


    Psychopathy among pedophilic and nonpedophilic child molesters.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22571910

    RESULTS:
    In both samples of child molesters, the nonpedophiles scored as significantly more psychopathic than the pedophiles.
    CONCLUSIONS:
    These results provide further evidence of the importance of distinguishing between these groups of offenders.
     
    - http://www.unz.com/article/pizzagate/#comment-1674224

    Kind of like

    Marc Dutroux https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Dutroux nonpedophilic child molester/dangerous psychopath

    vs.

    Jared Fogle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jared_Fogle pedophilic child molester/arrogant pervert

    Jared Fogle's Prison Attacker: I Beat His Ass Because Pedophiles Treated Him Like a 'God'

    http://www.tmz.com/2017/03/14/jared-fogle-prison-attacker-speaks-out/

    Jared Fogle Beaten and Bloodied In Prison Ambush | TMZ Live

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YBDB1H1fSQ
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  171. TWS says:
    @SMK
    A pedophile is a man (including biological men under age 18 who are absurdly defined as "children") with a sexual fixation on and obsession with prepubescent children. A biological man of 35 or 25 or 15 who is aroused by and attracted to prepubertal boys or girls, exclusively or predominantly, is a pedophile. An adult woman of 20 or 30 who has sex with a biological man of 15 is not a "pedophile." In fact, it's debatable if a women can even be a pedophile, accurately defined and understood, under the APA definition, for the same reason that few if any women are fetishists in the male sense. The fundamental reason is that they don't have penises and, consequently, they don''t need cues and images for arousal to will and sustain an erection and ejaculate whether in coitus or onanistically.

    I glad to see a few others responding to this lunatic and ignoramus, as stupid as he's evil and insane and malicious. You may be right as to the causes and motives of his hatred of "pedophiles," women and men, who aren't pedophiles. Roy Moore is now being presumed guilty until proven innocent beyond any doubt and vilified as a "pedophile" by Mas Boot, the blood-thirsty neocon "chicken hawk," and many others. Whatever one thinks of his antics with a 14-year-old girl, if true, he's not a pedophile.

    I just went to your website. I had the best laugh I’ve had all day. Man you are a literal parody of a pervert. I’m sorry honestly that I mocked you. It’s too easy. Good luck with your issues and good bye.

    Read More
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  172. @Lisa
    @Rurik. Re the British aristocracy. I have heard that the private boarding schools they send their boys to are ghastly places, renowned for producing lifelong sexual deviants. It is not necessarily the schools themselves in all cases, but more a case of being away from family and knowing every minute of your life that your parents stuck you there because they didn't wish to be bothered by your sustained presence, much less actually raising you. Prince Charles is a good example of what they crank out. As is the late (not late enough) Lord Mountbatten who, it is said, acted as procurer for Charles.

    “English Boarding Schools” it has always seemed to me that the British Empire rested on pedophiles,. Cecil Rhodes. Chinese Gordon and Florence of Arabia come immediately to mind. There are many others in the dark corners of my memory.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Simply Simon
    Florence of Arabia?
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  173. FKA Max says: • Website
    @notanon

    The murderers, robbers, rapists, etc. – the most despicable and dangerous people – they’re the loudest in their condemnation and assaults on the pedophiles.
     
    it's true people outside prison assume this behavior is a moral issue but as you imply, it's not - it's simply the most predatory people preying on the weakest.

    extremely violent torturer/killer type pedophiles do fine in prison.

    extremely violent torturer/killer type pedophiles do fine in prison.

    Good and important point.

    Psychopathy among pedophilic and nonpedophilic child molesters.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22571910

    RESULTS:
    In both samples of child molesters, the nonpedophiles scored as significantly more psychopathic than the pedophiles.
    CONCLUSIONS:
    These results provide further evidence of the importance of distinguishing between these groups of offenders.

    http://www.unz.com/article/pizzagate/#comment-1674224

    Kind of like

    Marc Dutroux https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Dutroux nonpedophilic child molester/dangerous psychopath

    vs.

    Jared Fogle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jared_Fogle pedophilic child molester/arrogant pervert

    Jared Fogle’s Prison Attacker: I Beat His Ass Because Pedophiles Treated Him Like a ‘God

    http://www.tmz.com/2017/03/14/jared-fogle-prison-attacker-speaks-out/

    Jared Fogle Beaten and Bloodied In Prison Ambush | TMZ Live

    Read More
    • Replies: @FKA Max
    Another interesting study:

    Psychopathy, Intelligence, and Recidivism in Child Molesters
    Evidence of an Interaction Effect

    The authors studied the relationships between psychopathy, intelligence, and offending in a sample of treated child molesters (N = 216). Regression analyses showed that psychopathy (as measured by the Psychopathy Checklist—Revised) was strongly related to both offense history and recidivism during follow-up. Intelligence (assessed using four-subtest short forms of the Wechsler Adult Intelligence Scale—Revised and Third Versions) was not related to offending. However, there was a significant interaction between intelligence and psychopathy on recidivism: Offenders with relatively low intelligence and high psychopathy scores were more than 4 times as likely to have received a sexual reconviction as other offenders. Results are discussed in terms of implications for risk assessment.
     
    - http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0093854808314786?journalCode=cjbb
    , @FKA Max
    I just found confirmation that Marc Dutroux is primarily a psychopath and not a pedophile, just how I suspected it, plus he also seems to have scored high on verbal and logical thinking intelligence tests, which makes him a particularly dangerous and deadly psychopath, because he is more controlled, calculating and charming than lower intelligence psychopaths; translated by Google Translate:

    Marc Dutroux, unlike what is often said and written, is not a classic pedophile. "The age of his victims does not play such a big role for Dutroux," wrote the experts. "The main reason why he chooses young victims seems to be easier to kidnap, to shut up and to manipulate. It has nothing to do with his sexual preference. "

    The judicial file also shows that Marc Dutroux maintained many sexual relations with different adult women before, during and after kidnapping of children. His preference was apparent to young women. At the first set of criminal facts he committed, kidnapped and raped Marc Dutroux five girls and young women between the ages of 11 and 19.

    What is Marc Dutroux either? In their report, the experts write that their personality has characteristics of "psychopathy" - but without the impulse that usually belongs to it - and "antisocial behavior". "Human laws have no significance and no value for Dutroux. He sees them as an obstacle, an obstacle that stands between him and the realization of his desires. Guilt is strange to him. The acts he proposes are aimed at avoiding punishment. In his eyes, by the way, he is not the guilty, but the one who wants to do him a law to comply with his sentence. "

    The IQ tests show that Marc Dutroux is verbally very intelligent and that he scores very high in logical thinking. Dutroux is also a fervent reader and investor. His favorite lecture is the scientific journals of all kinds, the fairy tale L 'Echo de la Bourse and the weekly magazine Trends / Tendances .' '
     
    - https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=nl&u=http://www.nieuwsblad.be/cnt/hno19022004_024&prev=search

    However, if you’ve got those traits I’ve just mentioned to you and you are not naturally violent, and you are also intelligent, then it’s a different story altogether. Then, as the famous Reuters headline once mentioned, you are more likely gonna make a killing in the market than anywhere else. - http://www.unz.com/jthompson/the-worlds-iq-86/#comment-2056979

    Unfortunately and sadly, in Dutroux's case the killing was not confined to the stock market.
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  174. SMK says: • Website
    @Backwoods Bob
    lol.

    This topic seems to be the one place where dark triad personalities lose their mask. Before I studied personality disorders/character disorders it always struck me as odd seeing it.

    In prisoners for example, all these felons of every stripe rail about the cho-mo's/chesters, spit on them and assault them - it's incredible how incessant and out of control crazy it is.

    The murderers, robbers, rapists, etc. - the most despicable and dangerous people - they're the loudest in their condemnation and assaults on the pedophiles.

    Because they're the most violent, despicable characters in prison and the one group they can get away with attacking is the pedophiles. It has nothing to do with the crime. It is sadism finding a way to explode out and do harm.

    Same for you. This is the place you think you can be abusive towards others and get away with it. My God, who do you think you are fooling with this act? You run a shelter for abused teens, right?

    lol - no, you are the very person to be kept away from the teens you are pretending to protect while in actuality just being nasty and malicious. Even more so with teens because they aren't adults who can stand up to a would-be bully such as yourself.

    Sheen would be safer than you.

    This sadistic lunatic is incapable of using facts and logic to refute arguments based on logic and facts but simply accuses anyone who doesn’t think an adult woman should be hung in public for having sex with a biological man under age 18, even those as old as 16 or 17, of being a”pedophile.”

    Incidentally, the generic age of consent is 16 in most states and 17 in few others. So “pedophilia,” as defined by this lunatic and ignoramus, is legal in most states. So a majority of state legislators -the politicians responsible for enacting and imposing these hideously draconian/Orwellian punishments for “sex offenders” who aren’t rapists and pedophiles or violent and degenerate- are “pedophiles.” I assume that well over 95% of people in the U.S. and almost 100% of Europeans would oppose hanging or other methods of execution for adult men and women who have consensual sex with pubescent teenagers under age 18. So almost everyone is a “pedophile”!

    I wonder why his favorites method of executing adult women who transport biological men to sexual paradise is hanging. I think his love of hanging is erotic. This sadistic degenerate probably masturbates as he fantasizes about all the innocuous women crying and shaking in fear with a noose around their necks and with their arms and legs in shackles before they are hung, hanging lifeless after their necks snap and they urinate and defecate in their ugly denim unisex jumpsuits. Or perhaps he envisions them naked.

    Read More
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  175. FKA Max says: • Website
    @FKA Max

    extremely violent torturer/killer type pedophiles do fine in prison.
     
    Good and important point.


    Psychopathy among pedophilic and nonpedophilic child molesters.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22571910

    RESULTS:
    In both samples of child molesters, the nonpedophiles scored as significantly more psychopathic than the pedophiles.
    CONCLUSIONS:
    These results provide further evidence of the importance of distinguishing between these groups of offenders.
     
    - http://www.unz.com/article/pizzagate/#comment-1674224

    Kind of like

    Marc Dutroux https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Dutroux nonpedophilic child molester/dangerous psychopath

    vs.

    Jared Fogle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jared_Fogle pedophilic child molester/arrogant pervert

    Jared Fogle's Prison Attacker: I Beat His Ass Because Pedophiles Treated Him Like a 'God'

    http://www.tmz.com/2017/03/14/jared-fogle-prison-attacker-speaks-out/

    Jared Fogle Beaten and Bloodied In Prison Ambush | TMZ Live

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YBDB1H1fSQ

    Another interesting study:

    Psychopathy, Intelligence, and Recidivism in Child Molesters
    Evidence of an Interaction Effect

    The authors studied the relationships between psychopathy, intelligence, and offending in a sample of treated child molesters (N = 216). Regression analyses showed that psychopathy (as measured by the Psychopathy Checklist—Revised) was strongly related to both offense history and recidivism during follow-up. Intelligence (assessed using four-subtest short forms of the Wechsler Adult Intelligence Scale—Revised and Third Versions) was not related to offending. However, there was a significant interaction between intelligence and psychopathy on recidivism: Offenders with relatively low intelligence and high psychopathy scores were more than 4 times as likely to have received a sexual reconviction as other offenders. Results are discussed in terms of implications for risk assessment.

    http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0093854808314786?journalCode=cjbb

    Read More
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  176. FKA Max says: • Website
    @FKA Max

    extremely violent torturer/killer type pedophiles do fine in prison.
     
    Good and important point.


    Psychopathy among pedophilic and nonpedophilic child molesters.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22571910

    RESULTS:
    In both samples of child molesters, the nonpedophiles scored as significantly more psychopathic than the pedophiles.
    CONCLUSIONS:
    These results provide further evidence of the importance of distinguishing between these groups of offenders.
     
    - http://www.unz.com/article/pizzagate/#comment-1674224

    Kind of like

    Marc Dutroux https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Dutroux nonpedophilic child molester/dangerous psychopath

    vs.

    Jared Fogle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jared_Fogle pedophilic child molester/arrogant pervert

    Jared Fogle's Prison Attacker: I Beat His Ass Because Pedophiles Treated Him Like a 'God'

    http://www.tmz.com/2017/03/14/jared-fogle-prison-attacker-speaks-out/

    Jared Fogle Beaten and Bloodied In Prison Ambush | TMZ Live

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YBDB1H1fSQ

    I just found confirmation that Marc Dutroux is primarily a psychopath and not a pedophile, just how I suspected it, plus he also seems to have scored high on verbal and logical thinking intelligence tests, which makes him a particularly dangerous and deadly psychopath, because he is more controlled, calculating and charming than lower intelligence psychopaths; translated by Google Translate:

    Marc Dutroux, unlike what is often said and written, is not a classic pedophile. “The age of his victims does not play such a big role for Dutroux,” wrote the experts. “The main reason why he chooses young victims seems to be easier to kidnap, to shut up and to manipulate. It has nothing to do with his sexual preference. “

    The judicial file also shows that Marc Dutroux maintained many sexual relations with different adult women before, during and after kidnapping of children. His preference was apparent to young women. At the first set of criminal facts he committed, kidnapped and raped Marc Dutroux five girls and young women between the ages of 11 and 19.

    What is Marc Dutroux either? In their report, the experts write that their personality has characteristics of “psychopathy” – but without the impulse that usually belongs to it – and “antisocial behavior”. “Human laws have no significance and no value for Dutroux. He sees them as an obstacle, an obstacle that stands between him and the realization of his desires. Guilt is strange to him. The acts he proposes are aimed at avoiding punishment. In his eyes, by the way, he is not the guilty, but the one who wants to do him a law to comply with his sentence. ”

    The IQ tests show that Marc Dutroux is verbally very intelligent and that he scores very high in logical thinking. Dutroux is also a fervent reader and investor. His favorite lecture is the scientific journals of all kinds, the fairy tale L ‘Echo de la Bourse and the weekly magazine Trends / Tendances .’ ‘

    https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=nl&u=http://www.nieuwsblad.be/cnt/hno19022004_024&prev=search

    However, if you’ve got those traits I’ve just mentioned to you and you are not naturally violent, and you are also intelligent, then it’s a different story altogether. Then, as the famous Reuters headline once mentioned, you are more likely gonna make a killing in the market than anywhere else.http://www.unz.com/jthompson/the-worlds-iq-86/#comment-2056979

    Unfortunately and sadly, in Dutroux’s case the killing was not confined to the stock market.

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  177. @Rhett Hardwick
    "English Boarding Schools" it has always seemed to me that the British Empire rested on pedophiles,. Cecil Rhodes. Chinese Gordon and Florence of Arabia come immediately to mind. There are many others in the dark corners of my memory.

    Florence of Arabia?

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  178. AKAHorace says:
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  179. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @German_reader

    Then there is child sex in which the child is normally either an active participant, or relaxed and passive.
     
    You're a sick piece of shit, appalling that people like you are even allowed to exist.

    I would have been an active participant if I’d had the opportunity to engage in sex even well before I reached the age of consent . I certainly thought about and desired sex well before I actually reached legal age. A person below the age of majority is not necessarily devoid of agency . Does that make me a monster , or can you concede that sexuality does not always track perfectly with the highly variable age of consent in a given jurisdiction ?

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    • Replies: @notanon

    or can you concede that sexuality does not always track perfectly with the highly variable age of consent in a given jurisdiction ?
     
    sure, that's why sensible people want the age of consent to be set at the age they feel is psychologically mature enough which will generally be significantly higher than the age of puberty.

    if the age of puberty drops thus increasing the gap between the age of puberty and the age of maturity then that side of the problem will increase - this can be fixed by figuring out what is causing the drop in the age of puberty and reversing it.
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  180. Dissident says:
    @flyingtiger
    One of the side effects of reading playboy at a young age is that you have no interest in underage women. I do not understand the appeal of kiddie porn.

    One of the side effects of reading playboy at a young age is that you have no interest in underage women.

    Not even when you were underage yourself? At no point during your adolescence did you find yourself attracted to girls no older than you were at the time?

    That it is entirely normal and indeed extremely common for a boy, even from his early adolescence, to desire adult women seems fairly apparent. But for even a young adolescent boy to have no erotic interest in his female peers? Or even merely to pursue or at least fantasize about adult women to the exclusion of his female peers? How common is that?

    (Ah, for the days when a boy could reach his teens having been exposed to no worse than smut than Playboy. By the way, did you actually read that vaunted publication when you first discovered it? :) )

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    • Replies: @flyingtiger
    You are forgetting that girls who are 13 years old are obnoxious. Thirteen is the age where both genders learn how to talk to each other. Playboy showed that in the future they will get better.
    Of course I read it. They had great articles from great writers. Recently Gore Vidal wrote a great one about fighter ace Robin Olds. I forgot they were half brothers.
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  181. Dissident says:
    @Rurik

    But leaving things as they are will, well, leave things as they are, with wretchedly bad treatment of a lot of children. Anyone have a better idea?
     
    birth control for the third world would be a great step towards preventing children in those regions from being so desperate and subject to depraved exploitation

    DNA mapping pedophiles for genetic, congenital predispositions (the British aristocracy for instance) and then screening for those traits at the zygote level for termination

    (there may be some potential future advantage for violent criminals in society, if a society ever requires a violent revolution for instance, but I can't think of even one potential advantage of having pedophiles born and/or exist)

    give them strychnine-laced child 'sex dolls'

    Or you could say it's been made legal so long as they only use the dolls, and then they could select between eight year old boys or five year old girls, and then have them walk though the 'brothel door' and fall into a pit of ravenous crocodiles or pigs or something

    ~ just trying to help out here Fred

    provocative article. Thanks

    DNA mapping pedophiles for genetic, congenital predispositions (the British aristocracy for instance) and then screening for those traits at the zygote level for termination

    Terminating zygotes merely for traits that suggest a predisposition toward– what exactly? Merely finding erotic appeal in– who, exactly? Pre-pubescent children*? Anyone below whatever the age-of-consent happens to be in a given jurisdiction? (Which, last I checked, can be anywhere from as young as 12 to as old as 21.)

    (*Sexual desire for adolescents who are clearly post-pubescent is, by definition, not pedophilia but hebephilia or ephebophilia. In common usage, however, the term ‘pedophilia’ is frequently used for both of the latter categories and ‘pedophile’ as a synonym for sexual predator or sex offender.)

    At any rate, the idea that it could ever be possible to screen for any such traits with a degree of accuracy that would be high enough to arguably justify such a practice sounds like little more than science fiction. Consider just how influential the formative childhood and adolescent years are on the development of just about every aspect of the human individual’s psyche, emotional state and character. To suggest that the area of sexual orientation and proclivities is somehow an exception to this, that they are not at least as much a product of an individual’s experience during said formative years as they are of any genetic factors, would hardly seem plausible or even reasonable.

    give them ["pedophiles"] strychnine-laced child ‘sex dolls’

    Or you could say it’s been made legal so long as they only use the dolls, and then they could select between eight year old boys or five year old girls, and then have them walk though the ‘brothel door’ and fall into a pit of ravenous crocodiles or pigs or something

    Even individuals for whom there was no evidence that they had ever or would ever harm any actual child? You want people to be tortured and killed merely for effectively masturbating with the aid of an inanimate object, simply because said inanimate object was made to resemble a child? Unsavory and repugnant as people may find such an act, where (assuming it is done discreetly and in a manner sufficiently hygienic so as to not to present a threat to public health) is the harm in it to society? Where is the crime?

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  182. Rurik says:

    Terminating zygotes merely for traits that suggest a predisposition toward– what exactly? Merely finding erotic appeal in– who, exactly? Pre-pubescent children*?

    works for me

    (Which, last I checked, can be anywhere from as young as 12 to as old as 21.)

    let’s just say anyone who it could be found would grow up with a predisposition to engage in sex with a nine year old, or younger. (assuming that perhaps there might be a ten year old somewhere on the planet who has achieved some signs of sexual and emotional maturity [which I doubt, but whatever])

    At any rate, the idea that it could ever be possible to screen for any such traits with a degree of accuracy

    I was being facetious. It was a bit of wishful thinking. ;)

    Where is the crime?

    well, there again, I wasn’t actually advocating for potential child molesters to be eaten by crocs, (as long as they remain ‘potential’), but there is perhaps a bit of prudence in identifying such individuals.

    I suppose there’s no harm in a deviant masturbating to a doll. But this is the thing..

    Potential child molesters (with an admitted proclivity) can become real child molesters. Indeed, it seems as tho many have come out and admitted that there is no cure for their affliction, and that if they have the appetite, they’re going to want to sate it, eventually.

    I don’t know. I’m not an expert. If a person jerks to cartoons or ‘defiles’ an inanimate object, I don’t see the crime. But they should be tracked and watched and if they do actually consummate their urges, then I feel that the crocs would be a suitable, (if tragically belated) solution.

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    • Replies: @Dissident
    Thank you, Rurik, for answering my questions and clarifying your views with that detailed response. A belated thanks, as well, for a past reply of yours that I had not acknowledged until now.*

    *I always appreciate receiving any sincere, substantive, non-abusive replies to my comments, even if I do not always acknowledge every instance of such. Additionally, any lack of response on my part to any given comment or question should never be assumed to imply anything on my part-- whether agreement, disagreement, assent, dissent, approval, disapproval or anything else. There are many times that I find myself with plenty to say in response to a reply I received or in response to another comment, article or blog post but either fail to reply at all or, if I do, omit any number of points that I had wanted to include. The reason, most often, for such omissions and failures on my part is the difficulty and inordinate amount of time that getting my thoughts into writing in a clear, coherent, reasonably concise and presentable manner typically involves for me.

    If I could, I would pin a statement such as the preceding to the top of my comment archive page.
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  183. The core problem is poverty. The obscenely wealthy and profligate nations have been predators of the third world since the age of colonialism. The local pathologically egocentric swinish elites live the life of Riley while all around them is an ocean of poverty. The US spends an astronomical amount of money on wars creating horrible conditions. That money could be used to help the poorer nations. The financialization of the world economies only solidifies the situation. Wealth is concentrated beyond all the dreams of richness. In short, criminal injustice in high places is the root of the problem. The first world deserves a sound beating, as do the governing classes in the third world.

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    The core problem is poverty. The obscenely wealthy and profligate nations have been predators of the third world since the age of colonialism.
     
    also the spread of the Arab empire

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Muslim_conquests

    and the resulting 1000 year Arab slave trade

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_slave_trade

    involved lots of child trafficking.
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  184. notanon says:
    @Anonymous
    I would have been an active participant if I'd had the opportunity to engage in sex even well before I reached the age of consent . I certainly thought about and desired sex well before I actually reached legal age. A person below the age of majority is not necessarily devoid of agency . Does that make me a monster , or can you concede that sexuality does not always track perfectly with the highly variable age of consent in a given jurisdiction ?

    or can you concede that sexuality does not always track perfectly with the highly variable age of consent in a given jurisdiction ?

    sure, that’s why sensible people want the age of consent to be set at the age they feel is psychologically mature enough which will generally be significantly higher than the age of puberty.

    if the age of puberty drops thus increasing the gap between the age of puberty and the age of maturity then that side of the problem will increase – this can be fixed by figuring out what is causing the drop in the age of puberty and reversing it.

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  185. notanon says:
    @Thorwald44
    The core problem is poverty. The obscenely wealthy and profligate nations have been predators of the third world since the age of colonialism. The local pathologically egocentric swinish elites live the life of Riley while all around them is an ocean of poverty. The US spends an astronomical amount of money on wars creating horrible conditions. That money could be used to help the poorer nations. The financialization of the world economies only solidifies the situation. Wealth is concentrated beyond all the dreams of richness. In short, criminal injustice in high places is the root of the problem. The first world deserves a sound beating, as do the governing classes in the third world.

    The core problem is poverty. The obscenely wealthy and profligate nations have been predators of the third world since the age of colonialism.

    also the spread of the Arab empire

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Muslim_conquests

    and the resulting 1000 year Arab slave trade

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_slave_trade

    involved lots of child trafficking.

    Read More
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  186. Dissident says:
    @Rurik

    Terminating zygotes merely for traits that suggest a predisposition toward– what exactly? Merely finding erotic appeal in– who, exactly? Pre-pubescent children*?
     
    works for me

    (Which, last I checked, can be anywhere from as young as 12 to as old as 21.)
     
    let's just say anyone who it could be found would grow up with a predisposition to engage in sex with a nine year old, or younger. (assuming that perhaps there might be a ten year old somewhere on the planet who has achieved some signs of sexual and emotional maturity [which I doubt, but whatever])

    At any rate, the idea that it could ever be possible to screen for any such traits with a degree of accuracy
     
    I was being facetious. It was a bit of wishful thinking. ;)

    Where is the crime?
     
    well, there again, I wasn't actually advocating for potential child molesters to be eaten by crocs, (as long as they remain 'potential'), but there is perhaps a bit of prudence in identifying such individuals.

    I suppose there's no harm in a deviant masturbating to a doll. But this is the thing..

    Potential child molesters (with an admitted proclivity) can become real child molesters. Indeed, it seems as tho many have come out and admitted that there is no cure for their affliction, and that if they have the appetite, they're going to want to sate it, eventually.

    I don't know. I'm not an expert. If a person jerks to cartoons or 'defiles' an inanimate object, I don't see the crime. But they should be tracked and watched and if they do actually consummate their urges, then I feel that the crocs would be a suitable, (if tragically belated) solution.

    Thank you, Rurik, for answering my questions and clarifying your views with that detailed response. A belated thanks, as well, for a past reply of yours that I had not acknowledged until now.*

    *I always appreciate receiving any sincere, substantive, non-abusive replies to my comments, even if I do not always acknowledge every instance of such. Additionally, any lack of response on my part to any given comment or question should never be assumed to imply anything on my part– whether agreement, disagreement, assent, dissent, approval, disapproval or anything else. There are many times that I find myself with plenty to say in response to a reply I received or in response to another comment, article or blog post but either fail to reply at all or, if I do, omit any number of points that I had wanted to include. The reason, most often, for such omissions and failures on my part is the difficulty and inordinate amount of time that getting my thoughts into writing in a clear, coherent, reasonably concise and presentable manner typically involves for me.

    If I could, I would pin a statement such as the preceding to the top of my comment archive page.

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  187. @Jon Orton
    Evil might be evil but Anime isn't realistic drawing and realistic drawing isn't an actual child.

    If people are so frail minded as to believe the slippery slope to actual child expoitation is via viewing online imagery then allow me to indicate the way this slippery slope is actually going...

    In the UK in 2008 Robul Hoque was convicted of the made-up-sounding crime of producing ‘indecent pseudo-photographs’ – that is, the images were so realistic that they were almost indistinguishable from real photos. In other words he was convicted of having drawings that were quite good, even though no actual children were involved.

    In 2014 he was convicted of possessing Japanese-style manga images and anime cartoons. Several of these images depicted young girls exposing themselves and engaging in sexual acts. He was given a 9 month suspended sentence and had to register on the sex offenders list. Anime is several degrees away from 'indecent pseudo-photographs’

    That's the way the slippery slope is heading.

    How long before a stick figure is deemed to be beyond the pale? Tit-less, it'll obviously be the drawing of a prepubescent girl and if no little triangle is drawn depicting a skirt then it's a naked prepubescent girl.

    Enjoy your freedom to think what you like whilst you still can.

    Play it safe, ban all art!

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  188. @Dissident

    One of the side effects of reading playboy at a young age is that you have no interest in underage women.
     
    Not even when you were underage yourself? At no point during your adolescence did you find yourself attracted to girls no older than you were at the time?

    That it is entirely normal and indeed extremely common for a boy, even from his early adolescence, to desire adult women seems fairly apparent. But for even a young adolescent boy to have no erotic interest in his female peers? Or even merely to pursue or at least fantasize about adult women to the exclusion of his female peers? How common is that?

    (Ah, for the days when a boy could reach his teens having been exposed to no worse than smut than Playboy. By the way, did you actually read that vaunted publication when you first discovered it? :) )

    You are forgetting that girls who are 13 years old are obnoxious. Thirteen is the age where both genders learn how to talk to each other. Playboy showed that in the future they will get better.
    Of course I read it. They had great articles from great writers. Recently Gore Vidal wrote a great one about fighter ace Robin Olds. I forgot they were half brothers.

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  189. Gunnm says:

    I am posting this as a hebephile, and a person who have consumed child pornography of allmost all the COPINE-scale.

    The problem with the idea of allowing production of virtual child pornography, is that the government(s) of the world, after religion up and died due to science (theory of evolution etc), see it as their obligation to provide for the moral foundation of society.

    It didn’t always use to be that way, in the past they merely upheld what religion said, but now they need to create the morals themselves and they do so by codifying it into law – unenforceable laws, draconian laws, shitheaded and inhumane laws.

    Morals was never meant to be written down into laws of a state in the form of “WE WILL punish you for violating this or that HERE in THIS life”, it was meant to be “GOD will punish you, you sinner (now go away and repent or something)”.

    Much easier to convey, and the state isn’t really obliged to enforce any of it, or with much fervor.

    But, then religion up and died and the state realized that there wasn’t an omniscient god that everybody believed could watch them all the time, so it realized there was a vacancy and hence that’s why we have landed in surveillance societies. Where the state is the god.

    Add to this that people realize that the planet is dying, and there is no end to the desire to turn against some unfortunate scapegoats and make them suffer.

    Which makes pedophiles the perfect jews, and we have landed smack dab straight back in what fueled Nazi Germany to start exterminating undesirables, and that kind of killed about 100 million people in the end.

    Wonder how many will be dead in 100 years. My bet is on around five billion.

    So yeah. Have fun with that whole pedo-pogrom thing.

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