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Jewish Decline and the Rise of China: In the US
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Years ago, when I was tech writer for weird magazines such as Signal and for other more-normal techish pubs, Jews littered the intellectual landscape. They were all over high-end research, such as Bell Labs. The big names were often Jewish, Einstein, von Neumann, Feynman, Gell-Mann, Minsky. The staff list for the Manhattan Project read like a Yeshiva yearbook. The same happened in the arts. Bernstein, Landowska, Rubinstein, Stoppard (“Maidens in search of Godhead…and vice versa.”)

Jews were smart, most people figured, not necessarily liking it. I wondered why without great interest. Genetic determinists of course cooked up evolutionary explanations involving undiscovered genes acted upon by unquantifiable selective pressures to produce assumed results not correlatable with the pressures. Business as usual.

Later I began to notice without thinking about it that the Jewish names were growing thin on the ground. These were not systematic observations. But Asian names were becoming prominent almost everywhere. The Feinsteins seemed to be in recession, if only anecdotally.

Something odd was happening, I barely noticed.

Then Ron Unz published The Myth of American Meritocracy, documenting a stunning turnaround of which I had been only vaguely aware. The book deals substantially with corruption in admissions to Ivy schools, with some (I think) good ideas for reform. It also charts the sharp decline in Jewish achievement and the meteoric rise of the Asians. (Actually I think falling is more what meteors do, but cliches are cliches.)

As one example, consider the NMSQT, the National Merit Scholastic Qualifying Test, given nationally to high-schoolers. To be a Semi-Finalist a student has to test in the top one half of one percent–sort of upper middle-brow intelligence.

in 2010 there were about 2000 Semi-Finalists in California, the state with the second highest Jewish population after New York. Citing an analysis of last names, Unz notes that there was only one Cohen, Levy, and Kaplan, but 49 Wangs and 36 Kims.

This pattern, Unz notes with lots of documentation, repeats across the country. For example, in the ultra-high-end high schools such as Thomas Jefferson in Virginia and Stuyvesant in New York. These places are scary smart, CalTech in short pants. Unz:

“Jews and Asians today are about equal in number within New York City but whereas a generation ago elite local public schools such as Stuyvesant were very heavily Jewish, today Jews are outnumbered at least several times over by Asians.”

“In 2012, Asians were 72.5% of Stuyvesant students, with all whites at just 24%, of whom an unspecified fraction were Jewish.”

Which is to say that even if all the whites were Jews and no HAGVACAS (House and Garden Variety (non-Jewish) Caucasians), the Asians would be outperforming the Jews by three to one.

Which is crazy strange.

Now the reader may say, “But Fred, this objection and that objection, and what about…?” Fair enough, but in condensing a book into three paragraphs one leaves things out. The sources are there and the analysis careful. And no, the book is not an attack on Jews, Unz himself being Jewish and a Harvard grad.

Methinks, subject to correction, that his findings shed considerable darkness on what we think we know about intelligence. Jews still perform better than Hagvacas, but less better than before, and the Asians are way ahead of the Jews. It seems unlikely that the Asians have suddenly risen in biological intelligence, or that Jews have gone down. Putting it otherwise, when one group falls almost overnight on a wide variety of tests thought to measure intelligence, and another rises, it follows that either intelligence can change very fast or the tests are not measuring intelligence. So what is happening? What do the aptitude tests measure?

The easy explanation is that the Chinese kids are of about normal intelligence but just work harder. Yet when a kid gets into Stuyvesant or MIT, he can’t get by on hard work and modest aptitude any more than I could play for the Chicago Bulls by practicing hard. You have to be smart to do, say, computational fluid dynamics. Actually really, really smart with tensors and things.

Which is why I have trouble buying the explanation offered by a Jewish friend: “We’ve lost our hunger.” I think he means that in his day there were Jewish quotas in universities and no room in the country club so when those barriers lifted the Jewish kids were going to show the goyim what was what and went at everything fang and claw and, well, showed the goyim. Then they got comfortable, moved to the suburbs, and maybe even watched football.

I have known people with very high pre-dumbing-down SATs, and Merit Semi-Finalists, and people with IQs in excess of 150. They didn’t just know stuff. They were bright. Was intrinsic intelligence raised in the Asian young by hard study?

Whatever is happening, it is grave. Consider CalTech, which probably has the highest standards for admission in the country. Further, it does not practice affirmative action. The demographics of the studentry: Black, 2%; Hispanic, 12%; White (including Jewish), 28%; Asian, 44%. This is worse than it seems at a glance because Asians are only 15% of the population of California,and six percent of the national.

Whatever is happening, it is not a statistical fluke. A couple of quotes from the book among many similar ones:

“For example, among Math Olympiad winners white Gentiles scarcely outnumbered Jews during the 1970s…but since 2000 have become over fifteen times as numerous.”

“Over forty percent of Putnam winners prior to 1950 were Jewish…but since 2000 the percentage has dropped to under ten percent, without a single likely Jewish name in the last seven years.” The Putnam is a very high-end math test.

Another of my friends has an Asian wife and thus entree into the Asian community. He quotes their (wisely private) outlook: “Whites are lazy and stupid.”

If you like succinct, you just got it.

The curious thing is that the Asians are not just way ahead of Jews, but wayer ahead of Hagvacas. The gap is huge, and seems to me too large to be explained by the few points of extra IQ sometimes attributed to East Asians.

ORDER IT NOW

The Asian rise may have consequences. It is not thought proper to notice that the white population of America, numbering very roughly two hundred million, provides nearly all of the scientific advance, engineering, and entrepreneurship. China has, again very roughly, a billion Han Chinese–you know, the kind that dominate Hagvacas and Jews in the US.

I watch Chinese technology as best I can. In fifteen years, China has gone from having no supercomputers to having slightly more than the US has, including the world’s two fastest, the most rapid of which (TaiHuiLight) is a Chinese design using Chinese semiconductors. (Obama, ever brilliant, stopped Intel from selling them chips, so they apparently decided the needed to supply their own.) The quantum-crypto line from Beijing to Shanghai, said to have been spurred by a desire to keep NSA off China’s back, is noticeably more advanced than carrier pigeons. The type 093B nukey attack sub just launched seems a major improvement over its predecessor. The 300 mph plus Shanghai Maglev trains uses foreign technology, but now they know how to do it. China is by far the world leader in high-speed rail, of which America has none.

Beijing is trying hard to advance technologically and with success With Jews going dark, and Hagvacas worried about safe spaces and microaggressions, who is going to protect America against competition by potentially five times as many engineers as we have, especially if they perform as well as our Asians do?

(Republished from Fred on Everything by permission of author or representative)
 
• Category: Race/Ethnicity • Tags: Asians, Jews, Meritocracy 
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  1. Drakejax says:

    Isn’t the HBD assumption that all those successful Jews marrying hot gentile wives is what has driven down Jewish achievement? Although the obervation of no longer being “hungry” is also apt since Jews command such overwhelming percentages of power postions in America – similar to WASPS at the beginning of the 20th Century. Perhaps the Jews are the new WASPS, and the Asians are the new Jews? At least that was what I thought Unz was driving at.

    • Replies: @TJM
  2. Priss Factor [AKA "Dominque Francon Society"] says:

    Jews of Allen and Kubrick’s generation grew up in awe of Wasp preeminence when US and UK dominated the world, and Kubrick’s films are also Anglo-obsessed.
    And Steven Spielberg could be the last of the Jewish breed that grew up with Anglo-Americans as the icons of American Prowess and Manhood.

    J.J. Abrams who grew up in a Jewish-dominated America has no respect for white gentiles as he goes about filling STAR WARS sequel with a ghastly Negro as future impregnator of a white girl to produce a galactic Obama-mofo.

    In some ways, the Anglosphere is more powerful than ever with US being the sole superpower and the Americanization of EU, Latin America, and East Asia.
    American-style English language is firmly entrenched as lingua franca around the world. But even as Anglosphere grows ever more powerful, Wasps in it become less powerful. The New World Order is more like the Anglowicz Sphere.

    • Replies: @Ivy
    , @Bee
    , @El Dato
  3. Priss Factor [AKA "Dominique Francon Society"] says:

    Fred Fred Cabbage Head, the video below say China facing big bad times.

    Could be.

    Also, smartest Chinese come to US. They don’t go back. They give their brains to US companies where they make more money.
    Also, so many Chinese girls use wombs to make babies for Jewish men like Amy Chua did.
    They are gonna grow up as Jews mostly.

    So, Jews win.

    In China, birthrate disaster looms. Not just due to one-child policy. Even if China had have-all-kids-you-want policy, a lot of women got freedom and taste of better life and will not marry any guy unless he has something to offer.

    Same problem in Japan and Korea and Taiwan and etc.

    Just like in White Europe. No matter how good capitalism and democracy may be in offering fun and material stuff, they are failures if they lead life to stop producing more life.

    In this sense, capitalism kills. Not by death camps but by empty wombs.
    Culture of me-ism makes everyone strive for Good stuff. They wont’ settle for less even if they grow old alone and die.

  4. Gene Su says:

    It’s the Tiger Mom (and Dad) phenomenon. Let’s talk about some ways that Asians are different from other ethnicities.
    1. Asians tend to be far more stingy. They don’t go for flashy cars and houses as whites do (although clothes are another matter).
    2. Asians tend not to balk from manual or undesirable labor. They don’t see it as a sign of low rank. Thomas Sowell has written once that the laziness of black and white southerners has to do with the view that having to do manual labor was a disgrace. I have dealt with so many Asian VPs handling their own products and sweeping their floors.
    3. Asian parents force their kids to study. My mom won’t let me out of the house until I spelled every word on the flash cards correctly.
    4. Asian parents will switch schools if they believe that their kid was not being educated. Sympathizers of blacks talk about how they are trapped in failing schools. Let’s take that as true. Why is it I don’t see the majority of blacks taking their kids out of failing schools? Only a minority, however large, will pay a private school tuition or drive across town to a charter school. Asian parents will pinch every penny to send their kids to a private school.
    5. Asian kids tend to be more introverted. Introverted nerds tend to be into science and math.

  5. Priss Factor [AKA "Dominique Francon Society"] says:

    “In 2010 there were about 2000 Semi-Finalists in California, the state with the second highest Jewish population after New York. Citing an analysis of last names, Unz notes that there was only one Cohen, Levy, and Kaplan, but 49 Wangs and 36 Kims.”

    Fred Fred Cabbage Head, the genetic thesis about Jewish intelligence is correct.

    I went to school with lots of Jews and some Asians in suburbs in the 80s.

    There were studious Jews and studious Asians. But generally Asians studied harder.
    But they were such grinds. Sure, some were real smart, but most were just reasonably bright who did a lot of studying and test-prepping. It was all about practice and preparation. Grind stuff.

    I recall on an individual basis, the Jewish kids were sharper, smarter, wittier. Some had brilliance, something totally missing from the yelloids.
    The Hindus are more fun, and they are in a category all their own, especially because India is nation of such extremes, with lots of very smart people and lots of very dumb people. With so much modernity and so much poverty, so much cosmopolitan experience and so much backward shitting with the cows outdoors.

    I must say of all the smart Jews and smart Asians of my high school class, the Jews did much more in life than the Asians even though some of them yelloids went to MIT, Harvard, University of Chicago.
    Look at Silicon Valley. Yelloids rarely rise above middle management. Some say Bamboo Ceiling, but it’s more like Bamboo limit. These yelloids got no spark.

    Look at music. Jews were prominent as pianists and fiddlers. And then, Asians took over many classical music stuff.
    But what does that prove? It means Asians can succeed a grind stuff. To become good at classical music, you practice, practice, and practice, like Yo Mama and Ling Lang.

    But have Asian-Americans achieved creative original stuff in music in America? Where is Asian Bob Dylan, Carole King, Philip Glass, Paul Simon, etc?
    To be sure, there may be prominent and important Asian composers in Asia, but why not here? It goes to show Jews have confidence and strong personality even when they are a minority. In contrast, Asians may have confidence when surrounded by own kind but just go along when surrounded by others.

    It’s funny. You’d think Asians would be more grindlike and conformist in Asia than in the West. I hear Asian school system is pretty rice-grueling. But because Asians are surrounded by other Asians in Asia, maybe they got some cultural confidence and have more guts to be original and individualistic, at least in creative fields.
    Consider some of the very great Japanese film makers and authors and such folks. In the West, Asians as individuals may have more freedom but they seem to lack cultural confidence. So, their individualism amounts to little more than imitating rappers, standup comics, and stuff. This is where Jews are different. Even when outnumbered by goyim, Jews just do their own stuff and break new ground.

    Comparing Jews and Asians are not fair because there are many Asian immigrants than Jewish ones. I’ll bet many of the top asian students in California are children of immigrants. But this only points to Asian weakness. Asian-American achievement depends on immigration. Why? Asian-American birthrates are lower than even white Americans. Also, with huge intermarriage rates, Asian-Americanness will fade away. There is a lot of Jewish intermarriage with goyim too, but because Jewishness has prestige, even someone who is part-Jewish may identify as Jewish. But someone who is part-Asian will likely identify with other races, not least because intermariage rates are higher with Asian women. Children naturally identify more with father who is the authority figure in the household.

    With very low birthrates in Asia and among Asian-Americans, immigration will further dry up Asian demographics and those that come here will either die childless or intermarry and their kids will become unAsian.

    Now, because China is such a huge country with so many people, it might be different for Chinese than for Japanese and Koreans.
    But China too is in demographic freefall.

    In the end, I think the world will be overrun by two peoples: Hindus and Africans. India still has lots of kids, and Indian government plans to send gazillions all over the world. African birthrate is over the top, and Europe will be Africanized(there’s no stopping it now) and US is also taking in tons of black Africans.

    Even Japan and Korea may take in the Negroes and dotters. China took in a whole bunch of Africans. Remember US just brought 300,000 blacks and they are now 50 million. The 1 million Africans in China may grow to 50 million in a century with every negress having 8 kids after gorging on dumplings and mooshoo pork.

    So, when it comes to the future, I bet on Hindus and Africans.

    Europeans are finished. Russia may be only white nation that survives.

    East Asia with their declining birthrates will be overrun with dotters and jivers, especially because the main culture of Japan and Korea and Taiwan and Philippines is black rap music and imitating American Diversity. Also, the Asian-American community of all these folks are totally Americanized and with social networking via internet, their compatriots are totally becoming Americanized even without coming here.

    I know a Filo girl who communicates via internet with friends and family back in Filo-land as if they are next door neighbors. From what I heard from her, culture in Manila is like culture in LA. Trashy and global.

    Globalism means the world turned into Hollywood and MTV. Since US is cool and since ‘diversity’ is cool, the new generation of Asians, like Europeans, will demand more immigration and more emigration. As their people move to US and Canada, their own nations will make up for people-shortage by bringing tons of dotters and jivers.

    • Agree: Realist
  6. Priss Factor [AKA "Dominique Francon Society"] says:
    @Gene Su

    “Asians tend to be far more stingy. They don’t go for flashy cars and houses as whites do (although clothes are another matter).”

    LOL.

    I guess you never saw the Filos, Korons, Chiners, and other yelloid trash in LA.
    I mean they are such materialist lowlife human garbage.

    • Replies: @K.
    , @Anonymous
  7. Priss Factor [AKA "Dominque Francon Society"] says:
    @Gene Su

    “Asians tend not to balk from manual or undesirable labor. They don’t see it as a sign of low rank.”

    Gene Bean Jelly Bean, you kill me.

    You can’t be serious.

    Japan is the nation that came up with ‘dirty, dangerous, demeaning’ work notion.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirty,_dangerous_and_demeaning

    When East Asia was very poor, yelloids were willing to do any job. They had to eat. And this may be true still in many parts of China.

    But not so in Japan, S Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, and Hong Kong.

    [MORE]

    See the movie TOKYO SONATA and DEPARTURES. Both show Japan in crisis as lifetime jobs dry up. Japanese feel such shame to take on ‘demeaning jobs’.
    Korea is imitation of Japan. 99% of its students get college degrees and want clean jobs. But they can’t get them. So, many turn to suicide.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/03/opinion/south-koreas-struggle-with-suicide.html

    In fact, the main reason these people come to US is to find better job, not to do menial labor. In fact, they left their country to get away from menial labor that is seen as low and given to immigrants from poor Asian nations. Look at Japan, and you will see small businesses hiring people from Philippines, even from Iran. Even from ghastly Africa. Shiite.

    It used to be most immigrants from Asia were not so highly educated and spoke little English. Many people are now coming with full education and English skills. Some are anchor babies, and China is not the only nation that plays this game.

    In the end, Asian-Americans will lose for the same reason why so many white liberals and Jewish secularists are losing in the long run. As individuals, they may have had success in professions and etc.
    But an individual life lasts only several decades. Life goes on through reproduction and culture lasts through family ties and remembrance(connection from grandfather to father to son and etc).
    Jewish Americans and white Libs gained much freedom and achieved much… but so many decided not to have kids or got divorced or intermarried and forgot about culture and history. They only live for pop culture as their culture.

    Asian-Amerians are no different. It doesn’t matter if so many do well in school. Many yellow girls will not have kids. Many will intermarry and have mixed-raced kids with little asian identity. Many asian men will die childless as asian manhood is seen as joke in the US and is attractive to none.

    Asians have no striking individual quality in wit, personality, charisma, athleticism, etc. Their power comes from homogeneity, unity, and numbers. They can have that in Asia, and they should stay in Asia.
    Coming to the West leads to short term individual success but no group success.

    Via immigration, Asia will just lose its best to the West. Americanized Asians into PC will just worship ‘gay marriage’.

    • Replies: @Mark Green
    , @DaveE
  8. Outside of the Orthodox, American Jews aren’t having many children. If you don’t get born in the first place its hard to win many awards.

    In the future all Jews will be Orthodox and/or Israeli.

    (Also with intermarriage having a ‘Jewish’ last name only defines your paternal ancestry.)

    • Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic
    , @Karl
  9. Ivy says:
    @Priss Factor

    Please enlighten us with a list of exemplars of Jewish prowess and manhood.

    • Replies: @Priss Factor
    , @TJM
  10. K. says:
    @Priss Factor

    If I were to try to have a dialogue with someone surnamed Su, I would refrain from using such terms as “Filos”, “Korons”, and “Chiners”. “Yelloid trash”, would be another no-go. You, of course, may do as you like.

  11. Mark Green says: • Website
    @Priss Factor

    Hi DFS. Interesting observations, as always.

  12. Priss Factor [AKA "Dominique Francon Society"] says:

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  13. Realist says:

    Rich Jews are not losing their control of power centers.

    • Replies: @TJM
  14. Bee says:
    @Priss Factor

    JJ Abrams has no respect for white gentiles? The vast majority of his characters are white gentiles, and he lovingly depicts a small mid-American town in his film Super 8 (and that was the one that was supposed to be ””’inspired by his childhood””’).

    • Replies: @Priss Factor
    , @Anonymous
  15. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Priss Factor

    I think you got him there… Maybe not all your stereotype-jokes are germane but certainly AZNs cannot be accused of willingly going for the spartan life, inside a converted shipping container with hemp recycled furniture. I don’t know of many train-hopping Chinese bindlestiff hobos suckling the fat of the land either. Not many Vietnamese grizzly men around. Is there anything more materialistic than a 20-y.o. Korean girl in polar vest & designer yoga pants parking her white BMW convertible at the Pinkberry or Sephora in Larchmont Village? Perhaps if some Kuwaitis and Hugo Chavez’s daughter were tagging along too.

  16. @Gene Su

    Thomas Sowell has written once that the laziness of black and white southerners has to do with the view that having to do manual labor was a disgrace.

    In this instance Sowell has no clue what he is talking about. I have never met a Southerner, black or white, who looked down on manual labor. But when you have temperatures in the mid to upper 90’s and humidity levels in the mid 90’s, sitting under the shade tree makes a whole lot of sense.

    • Replies: @dahoit
  17. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Asians are still very very far from competing with Jews

    in calling the ‘Elites’ ‘To Arms’ because ‘It’s Time To Rise Up Against The Ignorant Masses’ with the intensity of hatred of one and several thousands James Traubs.

    in founding and running things like the Southern Poverty LC which “fight hate” opposing to it a much stronger and higher quality and quantity of hate, in choosing where the next war will be waged: we didn’t have Asians in the Ukraine, in those eventful days where the country’s new government needed be chosen; we don’t even have 4 Asians in the Supreme Court yet.

    in the sports of white-spitting and anti-white racism inciting — today’s America’s #1 sport, practiced in any Tv programs, in nearly every page of thw NYT’s and WaPo’s, and at a lower level in ordinary social media posting, disproving the anti-Semitic stereotype that Jews aren’t good at sports.

    In feeling a divine call to determine the destiny of the remaining 98% of peoples, starting from the political life and election, healing the voter’s mind when they may vote or have just voted wrong.

    They also seem to have no complexes of superiority, or at least to lack the dedication to making sure that everybody else understands how superior they are.

    You see, Asians are still way behind other groups, when it comes to achievement.
    ———————-
    I also want to suggest you, Mr. Reed, that you think of your worship of intelligence a bit.

    Intelligence is a human faculty that harms both when lacking and when in excess.
    Excessive intelligence is going to transform humans into blends of human and machine, many already live in symbiosis with their electronic devices, absorbed by these.

    I see that, like “beauties” obsess over intelligence and spend their life taking pictures of themselves (now that taking pictures is a cost-less activity), some very intelligent people see intelligence at the centre of the universe and being. It’s as wrong as that.

    Sympathy for the pain of every living being, and a wish for peace, should be at the centre of the human mind’s landscape, maybe?

    • Replies: @dahoit
  18. This is pretty significant but is rarely mentioned but the 6% of the Asian population is not performing uniformally

    Only Chinese Indians and Koreans and some viets (I would suspect that most of the viets that do well are from north Vietnam) are doing well

    asians from non indian south asians, Middle east, central Asia, Pacific islanders and south east Asians aren’t the ones going to schools like caltech and mit.

    This means that the Asians that do well probably all come from 2% of the USA population

    Thankfully I got my long positions in south Korea and China early.

  19. Do we know little about intelligence?

    Our concept of intelligence mirrors quite well the workings and skills of one part of the human brain, I think, while the rest of it is still to be understood (and can hardly be understood by intelligence alone, perhaps).

    Bach’s and Beethoven’s IQ is estimated to have been more or less 160.
    There are probably some thousand people, in the East, with a 160 or higher IQ, and none of them is going to compose what Bach and Beethoven did: not because we don’t understand something about intelligence, but because that takes some skill that is not intelligence (while it still lies in the brain).

    A serious IQ test may predict a lot of things of an individual’s possible achievements.
    It can tell what the ceiling of that person’s achievement is: the best that he or she can do.

    Intelligence is the raw ability of the mind in analytical / functional processing, the most important when it comes to concrete achievements, and anything related with science, but, particularly, technic.

    Non-technic science also needs phantasy, imagination, if we think of very very high level, and that’s why as soon as you move out of the line of engineering and technology the white people — including a group of white people who absolutely don’t want to know they are a group of white people, id est, the Ashkenazi — outdo Asians.

    The 21th century will be the century of technic; it may well be an Asian century.

    You say: “Another of my friends has an Asian wife and thus entree into the Asian community. He quotes their (wisely private) outlook: “Whites are lazy and stupid.”

    If you like succinct, you just got it.”

    Asians very often express admiration for white civilization and cultural achievements. I often speak with many of them, and know it for a fact. Xi Jin Ping’s daughter is studying or has studied at Harvard.
    A lot of middle-class Chinese dream of having their offspring study in American university.
    I personally think they are more humble than it is reasonable to, and should get rid of this kind of complex of inferiority, realizing that today already, or anyway very soon, the best places in the world to study will be in the East and not the USA.

    Regardless, they can’t help wondering why, despite what IQ tests say, about 98% of inventions, artistic creations, and philosophies in the human story have come from the white people (including the whites who hate to know they are whites too).

    So, well, you wished to quote somebody as saying what you felt the need for saying, that whites are “lazy and stupid”, and you found someone you could quote.

    Humans are made “lady and stupid” by ease and comfort: the Asian are going to be changed by that, too, in the middle-long run; the Jews are already being changed by that as well.
    I fully subscribe to the “hunger” theory. Hunger accounts for half of what it takes to achieve, the other half being skills.
    One can’t do without skills, but, likewise, one can’t do without “hunger.”

    • Replies: @pink_point
    , @Realist
  20. @Priss Factor

    Untrue Chinese immigration was limited due to fears of communism until Nixon opened up immigration in 1978 near the end of the cold war, this was when the high quality immigrants came in.

    Before that Chinese immigration was blocked by the Chinese exclusion act that was only removed in 1943 at the end of ww2, China immediately went red and immigration was unofficially banned.

    So the majority of Chinese Americans comprise of the descendants of rail road builders and other workers who came to the us to do manual labor or war refugees Chinese who fled from the ccp (experience taking in war refugees shows that refugees are not elite immigrants) ,

    The new immigrants aren’t h1b either see the above chart most of the h1b are from India most of the new immigrants get to the USA by chain immigration or marriage fraud Or asylum

    Half of all asylum cases are from China

    http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/02/23/nyregion/asylum-fraud-in-chinatown-industry-of-lies.html

    More Chinese immigrants apply for asylum than any other immigrant group in the country, with the Chinese population in New York leading the way: Over the past six years, about half of all applications filed by Chinese immigrants not facing deportation were submitted in New York City.

    • Replies: @Randall Parker
  21. @pink_point

    Also, why do you say “Whatever is happening, it is grave?”.

    You have tirelessly celebrated Jewish predominance and you are readying yourself to mourn a possible Asian predominance?

    What would the rationale for this difference in outlook be?

    “With Jews going dark, and Hagvacas worried about safe spaces and microaggressions”

    Do whites care about politically correct progressivist junk more than white Jews?
    It doesn’t look so.

  22. @anony-mouse

    In the future all Jews will be Orthodox and/or Israeli.

    And that will be the end of Jewish superlatives, as the Ashkenazi go extinct or outmarry.

    The Orthodox I know are like the Amish. All their energies are devoted to family and maintenance of their traditions. You are not going to get any symphonies or bullet trains out of them.

    • Replies: @TomSchmidt
    , @Corvinus
  23. Priss Factor [AKA "Dominique Francon Society"] says:
  24. @Priss Factor

    I don’t think empty wombs will be a problem

    The Chinese government has absolute power, and lack of morals.

    If empty wombs are a problem the ccp would solve it immediately by offering tax cuts to the families with children and implementing pregnancy leaves along with propaganda to have more children.

    The reason why China’s population exploded from 200 million at the end of ww2 to 1.4 billion was because Mao believed that ww3 was coming and they needed as many people as possible to increase their chances of winning a nuclear war.

    If the Communists could create 1.2 billion people with a snap of a finger there is no reason why they can’t do it again

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Historian
    , @5371
    , @Lot
    , @dahoit
  25. Borachio says:

    “Lost hunger” is part of the explanation. More significant is that non-Orthodox Jews have been infected by political correctness and all its attendant ills:

    * Achievement is suspect because it makes blacks and Hispanics look bad.

    * Feelings are more important than facts.

    * Logic is an oppressive tool of The Patriarchy.

    * Childhood is for zem figuring out what sex zey are.

    May God bless and protect Orientals (Chinese and Japanese; “Asian” is P.C. bullsh*t).

    Now that we in the West are flushing our civilization down the toilet, they’re humanity’s best hope for preserving some kind of intelligent life on earth.

    • Replies: @gwynedd1
  26. @Gene Su

    >Asians tend to be far more stingy. They don’t go for flashy cars and houses as whites do (although clothes are another matter).

    http://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2014/04/economist-explains-17

    I don’t know what Asians you are referring to but the Chinese are huge consumers of luxury goods. There are rich chinese students driving 200,000+ cars on college campuses.

    It is well known that most Chinese women refuse to marry men that don’t have a car, house or a certain income which is why their real estate market is so hot , Chinese materialism has been written about extensively by numerous news outlets

  27. Renoman says:

    Hey Fred, what’s a Hagvaca? Google doesn’t know.

    • Replies: @Unzerker
  28. @Priss Factor

    >But have Asian-Americans achieved creative original stuff in music in America?

    >Look at Silicon Valley. Yelloids rarely rise above middle management.

    Promotion to management is mostly based on whether or not people like you, same with success in the fields of art and music.

    Their are plenty of Asian CEOs and crwatives in Asia.

    None of these fields are meritocratic, the explanation is simple some combination of racism and cultural differences prevent Asians from succeeding socially.

    While for Jews the average non racist would not be able to tell the difference from a secular Jew and a white. And secular Jews have pretty much the same culture as whites. Most Americans wouldn’t be able to tell if someone was a Jew from speaking with one because they are culturally similar ty o whites.

    >China took in a whole bunch of Africans.

    No they didn’t, none of them ever gained citizenship and most of them have left already, the Africans in China number only a few thousand down from the 300,000 peak.

    http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/26/asia/africans-leaving-guangzhou-china/index.html

    I don’t agree with your Asian decline predictions

    For China the government has basically absolute power and little morality. China’s population grew from 200 million to 1.4 billion because Mao believed that China needed as many people as possible to survive a note nuclear war. If they could create 1.2 billion humans out of thin air they can do so again.

    For south Korea and Japan these countries are so crowded that people are living in closets and are being packed like sardines into the subway. Its completely different from white extinction since white women have the wealth and the living space but are instead choosing to raise dogs and cats instead of children, many Koreans and Japanese in surveys report wanting children but not being able to afford because of sky high costs of living due to population density while surveys show a lot of white women simply not wanting children

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/15/Countries_by_population_density.svg

    Asian Americans will definitely go extinct once the immigration stops because the first generations strongly adopt white liberalism

    But as long as east Asia remains racist they will remain on top.

    The iq gap between nams and Asians are just too much to gain a foothold. Along with alien social norms, and a incredibly difficult language.

    Many whites welcome 3rd world immigration because a 85 iq Hispanic or Syrian is closer to white iq of 98 than Asian is of 105.

    I suspect that most whites would reject immigrants with 65 iq if they we’re visually different say they had purple skin color

    • Replies: @Priss Factor
    , @Erik L
  29. Talha says:
    @Hbd investor

    If the Communists could create 1.2 billion people with a snap of a finger there is no reason why they can’t do it again

    Perhaps, but those were a different Chinese of a different time; rural, traditional, family-oriented.

    Do those same sentiments exist to the same degree in this generation? Are (post)modern city-dwelling (materialist, as you mentioned) Chinese the inheritors of that legacy?

    Just some thoughts.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Hbd investor
  30. Priss Factor [AKA "Dominique Francon Society"] says:
    @Hbd investor

    “No they didn’t, none of them ever gained citizenship and most of them have left already, the Africans in China number only a few thousand down from the 300,000 peak.”

    http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/26/asia/africans-leaving-guangzhou-china/index.html

    No, the article says 100s or 1000s exited. So, it means 100,000s are still around in China.

    • Replies: @Hbd investor
    , @Duke of Qin
  31. @Talha

    While the will may not be there, the government has near absolute power.

    They can produce and implement as much propaganda and economic incentive as they want.

    They have done things thought to be impossible in the west like banning Islam

    They managed to implement a one child policy something that would be impossible to pass in a democratic country.

    China has demonstrated the ability to control human behavior

    If they could pass a one child policy? Why can’t they pass economic incentives to have children.

    If you offered white women free daycare, schools free from violence and extra money, affordable housing you will get a baby boom.

    The fact is that European population is at a all time high, and this has led to skyrocketing living costs. If you look at the areas with low living costs all the whites there have a house with 5 bedrooms 2 bathrooms, a garage and driveway and a dog or cat but most important they tend to have 2 or more kids

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    , @Talha
  32. @The Anti-Gnostic

    I have worked at an Orthodox Jewish university. They don’t have as much money as Reform Jews, but they’re on average quite smart and the best students could match the best at any university. The Orthodox have 3.3 children per woman and will be the last Jews left standing in 100 years. I don’t think symphonies or bullet trains, but a lot of high-intellectual-content IT work will originate with them.

    They are a delight to work with, especially the young women: smart, polite, hard-working.

    • Replies: @Borachio
  33. @Priss Factor

    The number of illegal Africans are difficult to count but the trend is that none of them are getting citizenship they are getting rounded up and sent back to their own countries. The Africans while in China experience extreme discrimination and racism. The Africans taking over China is never going to happen.

    The leaders of China might be redpilled.

    http://www.parapundit.com/archives/010066.html

    They are attempting to purge what little pc culture is present in China. See above , I strongly doubt that China will go down the native population genocide path caused by pc culture like the west

  34. Borachio says:
    @TomSchmidt

    Aw, shucks, yer makin’ me blush … 🙂

  35. tbraton says:

    “China is by far the world leader in high-speed rail, of which America has none.”

    I believe China is also the world leader in vacant high rise buildings. Maybe there is a need for high-speed rail in China that simply doesn’t exist in the U.S. I am aware of the abandoned high-speed rail line that was planned for Florida that had to be abandoned once the high cost and uneconomical nature of the scheme became apparent to many. I think the same fate awaits the high speed rail line contemplated for California. Back in the late 60’s and early 70’s, I was working in an office with a slightly older man who was a well-educated Italian, and the debate was going on about the funding of an SST by the federal government in competition with the British-French Concorde. I was swayed by articles in the WS Journal that argued that the SST was uneconomical while my Italian friend bemoaned the fact that the U.S. was abandoning its leading role in technology. Well, we decided to pull the plug on the SST, and the Europeans went ahead with the Concorde. The Concorde flew for more than 20 years before the British and French decided to drop it because it wasn’t making money. It’s nice to have super duper technology, but, if it’s not economical, it won’t last, and it will cost you unnecessarily as it diverts money to uneconomic goals.

    • Replies: @Che Guava
    , @rod1963
  36. Ron Unz says:
    @Priss Factor

    Actually, I think these critiques of China’s prospects are just total MSM nonsense/propaganda, much like how the old USSR used to endlessly critique America’s dreadful economic problems during the 1970s and 1980s.

    Sure, all the MSM headlines endlessly tout China’s terrible “economic slowdown”…except that even during this so-called “slowdown” China’s per capita GDP has been increasing at roughly 10x America’s rate. Here’s a handy chart from one of my old articles from a few years ago you might want to consider reading especially since none of the trends have changed all that much:

    http://www.unz.com/article/chinas-rise-americas-fall/

    The real income of urban Chinese workers has been doubling every 5-10 years. It seems to me if the real income of ordinary American workers were doubling every decade, there’d be far fewer complaints about the One Percent.

    Commenters who endlessly ridicule the absurd claims of the MSM on some matters should be more cautious in blindly believing it on other matters.

  37. Ron Unz says:
    @Hbd investor

    They can produce and implement as much propaganda and economic incentive as they want…They managed to implement a one child policy something that would be impossible to pass in a democratic country. China has demonstrated the ability to control human behavior. If they could pass a one child policy? Why can’t they pass economic incentives to have children.

    Yes, I think this is exactly correct. These days, China has a fairly non-ideological, pragmatic government which can implement those policies it believes are best for China and for the Chinese. Meanwhile, America and most Western countries suffer from exteme ideological constraints on these demographic issues.

    Western countries supposedly have a terrible “birth dearth,” especially among the middle class, and therefore require heavy foreign immigration to prevent a sharp population decline. But this is obviously total nonsense.

    Suppose, for example, government raised the tax rates by 10 points on all adults over 30 who were not already married. Surely marriage rates would skyrocket, especially among those individuals who earned substantial incomes. Then suppose the government also raised tax rates by 10 points on all individuals over 35 who had no children and by 5 points among individuals with only one child. Once again, birth rates would surely skyrocket. Add to this strong, pro-natalist media/progaganda, and huge demographic changes would probably occur.

    Admittedly, such government policies would be unthinkable in America, not least because of their quasi-eugenic taint, but this is an ideological rather than a practical barrier.

    As an analogy, suppose there were a country whose very rapidly growing population was considered a catastrophe in the making, with the main factor being that birth control was totally prohibited and condemned, both by law and by moral sanction. As an outsider, you might suggest that changes in the birth control law might easily solve the problem, but any such proposal would be considered ideologically “impossible.”

    Forty or fifty years ago, the Chinese government was far more ideological than its American counterpart, which led to all sorts of problems, but these days it is the American government which operates within a narrow ideological straightjacket.

    I think the reason China isn’t too concerned about its low fertility rate is that the leadership believes, not without reason, that there are already plenty of Chinese and the country is probably somewhat overcrowded. Why would they want an exponentially growing population? Instead, per capita income has been growing exponentially.

    Meanwhile, exponential population growth (entirely driven by immigration) seems to be the goal of America’s leadership, while per capita income has stagnated for the last 40 years.

    The Chinese leaders seem sensible and the American ones crazy.

  38. mtn cur says:

    What do you mean, “noticeably more advanced than carrier pigeons,” NSA can’t eavesdrop on the old mark I model 0 homing pigeon and likely never will.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Karl
  39. mtn cur says:
    @Ron Unz

    Chinese leaders include many engineers and other eclectics, with few lawyers, of course they seem sensible by comparison.

  40. Talha says:
    @Hbd investor

    Hey HBDI,

    If you offered white women free daycare, schools free from violence and extra money, affordable housing you will get a baby boom.

    Of course we are in the realm of speculation here, but think of this; how many very wealthy White families (in the upcoming generation) do you know that can afford the best private schools for their kids and have no worries about finances that have more than 2 kids?

    You can try to control human behavior, but the will must be there. I would surmise it exists in the traditional Chinese, but not so sure about the city-dwellers.

    If they could pass a one child policy? Why can’t they pass economic incentives to have children.

    Preventing someone from doing something only requires will from one party, encouraging an action requires will from both – no?

    Again, this is all speculation, they may well be able to pull it off (seems MR. Unz feels that way), but I am skeptical.

    Peace.

  41. “Jewish” is just a label. If you want to find out where the smarts are going, follow the smart genes, not the label.

    The smartest Jews tend to be secular, and about half of secular Jews are marrying non-Jews, and most of the ones that do raise their kids non-Jewish. (1488 crowd shibboleths notwithstanding). When those kids grow up, they have some of the smart genes, (or all, if assortative mating is holding up). But they don’t have the Jewish label.

  42. Intelligence and creativity are not quite the same thing. Asians bred for conformity. Two Jews have three opinions, even when they are all bad. That Nobel thingy isn’t going to change as much as the student body of Caltech.

  43. @Talha

    >but think of this; how many very wealthy White families (in the upcoming generation) do you know that can afford the best private schools for their kids and have no worries about finances that have more than 2 kids?

    The Mormon communities don’t have a problem churning out kids, a lot of non Mormon whites also live with the Mormons and they also churn out a lot of kids.

    Why?

    Because everyone has a large 5 bed 2 bath house and they barely pay anything in taxes. The public schools in the area are good enough and safe enough so the parents don’t have to move to an area where real estate costs a small fortune. Their are no nam’s committing crimes.

    Just like how many animals in captivity refuse to breed until certain conditions are met. Whites are the same way, many whites would not consider breeding if crime and violence are high, cost of living high, population density high, not enough money saved up, not enough other children around to socialize with

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @TheJester
  44. I think one factor in the changing results for Jews is the fact that they have diverted so much of their attention to politics in the last 50 years. Maybe it’s my personal bias against politics as a worthwhile endeavor, but I do think this diversion of effort has not served them well.

    I understand that there have been many politically involved Jews for the last couple of centuries, but in the last 50 years it has become almost obligatory, like WASPS playing golf or “good ol’ boys hunting and fishing”.

  45. Talha says:
    @mtn cur

    LOL! Or ravens – GOT style!

  46. and get this fred, we go out of our way to impede our asians, giving them a 15% quota in the top universities.

    retards every where in our govt/leadership.

  47. Talha says:
    @Hbd investor

    Good points! Mormons are a special case though (wouldn’t you agree – I’m a Muslim and had the easiest time getting along with traditional Mormons in high school) – I would put them in the same archetype as the traditional Chinese I was talking about. But city-dwelling (post)modern minded whites or Chinese don’t fit this mold. I guess we’ll see, but I do pray for what’s best for the Chinese people.

    Also, on your point about Chinese policy vis-a-vis Islam; Islam is an very old force in China (UR contributor Razib Khan has written some excellent stuff), and it seems the pragmatic Chinese deal with different Muslims differently:
    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/02/world/asia/china-islam-hui-ningxia.html?_r=0
    http://time.com/3099950/china-muslim-hui-xinjiang-uighur-islam/
    http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/harmony-and-martyrdom-among-chinas-hui-muslims

    Peace.

    • Replies: @pink_point
  48. Discard says:

    There is no reason to think that the Chinese that come here are representative of the Chinese nation. If I were the King of China, I would have noted how American policy in the Middle East has been influenced by a wealthy, educated minority, and would then seek to establish my own wealthy, educated minority to serve Chinese interests. They got over a billion people, surely they can spare a few million of the sharper ones to colonize the U.S.

  49. Discard says:

    Smart Jews did not go into physics because they just seemed to have a special affinity for it, they went for physics because it’s a road to success that had objective standards. Jew or not, if you could do calculus or whatever, there was a place for you.

    OTOH, law and finance require a level of trust not readily extended to outsiders. Having become the insiders since WW2, smart Jews can make a lot more money from Harvard than MIT. The decline in Jewish scientific achievement is due to them taking the easier path of financial and legal manipulation. That’s my guess anyway.

    • Replies: @dahoit
    , @Anonymous Nephew
  50. Priss Factor [AKA "Dominique Francon Society"] says:

    It’s no wonder Chiners run circles around the Filos, the most ridiculous people on the planet(except for Michelle Malkin).

    https://www.rt.com/news/349104-kill-drug-addicts-philippines/

  51. OLD JEW says:

    Dear Fred Reed,

    I concur with the explanation offered by your Jewish friend: “We’ve lost our hunger.”

    In third grade this Jewish girl immigrant from Moscow came into my daughters class.

    Mu daughter (born in America) showed her around, helped her with English, etc..

    Both girls eventually went to Ivy League Universities, and are still best friends 25 years later.

    We owned our house, our daughter could afford a lot of things, while Y. lived in a small crowded apartment.
    By middle school my daughter still had better grades, but by end of 12th grade her friend overtook her (even worse, the Jewish kids were not the very best, the valedictorian was a young Korean man).

    What gives?

    Y.s Dad, a Moscow Physics and Math teacher, was a “Tiger Dad’. He gave his daughters additional exercises, and tutored them in his subject matter. not only did he expect top performance but he made sure they understood what they were doing. It was not silly drilling, but the best Russian/Soviet elite High School method.

    My daughter took those after school lectures with her friend, but not all of them.

    All the kids in the top had all A’s. I was lackadaisical. As long as my kid brought home A’s (whether a 92% A or a 98% A) it was fine with me. The kids in that school were bright young people (it was one of the best schools in the metropolis), and more so, those top ten ranked kids.

    I believe the difference in ranking can be explained by “immigrant hunger”.

    None of these kids came from abject poverty.

    But above a certain minimum threshold, the family hardships they overcame, pushed the kids to higher achievements.

    sf

    • Replies: @pickwickcircle24
  52. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Fred.

    What you have to understand about white people in America, and especially the kind of white people who read Sailer and Unz, is that a big part of their identity comes from trying to kraft the world that they would be most comfortable in. Any self awareness on whats really going on will just bring about a sense of dread and hopelessness.

    So the modern whites who look at some of the facts you mentioned will be more interested in spinning things to show that whites are superior instead of looking at anything truthfully.

    Asians are just grinders, not creative, etc etc. Pure Schadenfreude.

    • Replies: @dcite
  53. kiismerh says:

    It seems to me that the Chinese, Japanese and Koreans are smarter than the rest of the Asians so if the average Asian IQ is 105 than they should be over 110. However since their sense of humor seems to be on the level of a 10 year old they can’t be too original. ( I think those correlate) Because of that extreme lack of sense of humor I feel that most Asians could be considered very high-functioning autistics.

    • Replies: @Hacienda
  54. Hacienda says:
    @kiismerh

    There is a growing gap between the West and the East. This is exhibit A.

    Asians know the West deeply and well. And this understanding is increasing, even to places where Asians know more about the West than the westerners themselves. OTOH, westerners still know next to nothing about Asians and are descending into hand waving, pardon me’s, and throwaway judgements.

    Just take my word for it, Korean comedy and humour can be subtle and funny as any comic hero in the US- Woody Allen, Seinfeld, Steve Martin, etc. You’re blithering ignorant.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @kiismerh
  55. @OLD JEW

    Only 5 or 6 instances of boasting.
    A little less than the habitual rate.

    Mirror mirror on the wall, who’s the fairest of all?
    Of course they must be all A’s: you don’t want that mirror to return an offensive answer one day or another.

    • Replies: @OLD JEW
  56. dcite says:
    @Anonymous

    More or less true; however, Asians are coming here and not so much the other way round, although there are a fair number of Asiaphiles who would be in Asia if they allowed more whites to settle there, although probably not in the millions. I wanted very much to live in France when I was in college, but when I heard that the French themselves had a hard time finding jobs, I gave that up — I’d never want to take a French job from a French person.
    So no matter how much “schadenfreude” the commenters manifest, it is not “pure.” They have a point. Asians are coming here to be, more or less, Americans. Americans don’t go there to be Chinese or Koreans or Taiwanese in any numbers. They go to sell stuff — a religion, a factory. No white person thinks he or she could become a Japanese or an Indian. At best,you’d be a pretender, a sympathizer. At least “American” is generic these days, but there are those who still consider their ethnic labels exclusive to themselves.
    So what are we supposed to think? An awful lot want to be here, and even more would be here if they could. It leads Americans (at least the white kind) to unflattering speculation and self-reverential comparisons. Asians have the same range of creativity, humor, etc. as whites, but we don’t understand much about their cultures. There are reasons that “western” modern society has become the default, and reasons for those whose immediate ancestors created it, to be proud of its more attractive aspects. That may be what certain commenters are trying to express. Asians are very aware of themselves as Asians, yet white natives are not even supposed to notice or care. You sort of wonder why they come; America peaked in the 60s, before there was a huge Asian presence. Computers and the internet (a DARPA project begun for the Pentagon in the late 60s) were already part of the warp and the woof. You sort of wonder why all these people don’t just stay put and make their own countries their version of America, if they want that so much. And if they can’t create another America, well, then that does mean we’re “superior.” There’s a ready made America for them. Why spend 100 years creating another one. And so it goes on and on.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @artichoke
  57. Anonymous • Disclaimer says: • Website
    @Hacienda

    I highly doubt someone would feel the need to tell somebody else they are “blithering ignorant”, if they weren’t at least a little ignorant (and maybe more), and if they had confidence in what they stated.

    I have known many Mongolian Asians, including Chinese, and confirm @kiismerh experience.

    Intelligent comes in many shapes, and they excel only at one kind of it, that I would call technical, engineer-istic. In that, they excel to a degree a Westerner is hardly going to imagine before he/she knows some.
    Your average Japanese shopkeeper can compute better than your average good student of mathematics in the West, and they have a huge knob for logic.

    While they are particularly weak in the field of creativity, imagination, and so forth: and incapable of grasping verbal analogies and jokes, or anything needing the smallest grain of imagination to an extent that can surprise a Westerner.

    This correlates a lot with their genetic tendency toward conformity, that is, in turn, reflected by their political systems and great stability (they also suffer from far more less psychic diseases and disturbances of the kind caused by high emotionability and stress).

    I don’t, and I assume @kiismerh doesn’t, need to “take your word for it” (who would take the word of someone who speaks by insults, by the way?), as I, and I assume he too, speak by experience.

    • Replies: @Hacienda
    , @Anonymous
  58. @Ron Unz

    I challenge you to find a funnier example or wishful thinking on China than at:

    http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/06/chinas-twilight-years/480768/

    “Twilight years”. And soon they’ll have to open their borders…

  59. @Ron Unz

    “China has demonstrated the ability to control human behavior”, says the reader you replied to.

    Does he know of some place where that is not the case? Is he/she reading and “watching” the USA-EU mainstream media af of late?

    Our current status of affairs comes from far in the past, at least 60 years.

    I pick one quote by one neuroscientists, one quote among countless quotes by Western, usually Anglo-Saxon, psychologists, psychiatrists, of the 20th century.

    “We need a program of psychosurgery for political control of our society. The purpose is physical control of the mind. Everyone who deviates from the given norm can be surgically manipulated. The individual may think that the most important reality is his own existence, but this is only his personal point of view. This lacks historical perspective Man does not have the right to develop his own mind. This kind of liberal orientation has great appeal. We must electrically control the brain. Some day armies and generals will be controlled by electric stimulation of the brain.”

    The 2 differences with China (and Russia) is their governors work for the good of their governed, and even liberty is going to find more space in their culture and society, whereas the West has slipped back to authoritarianism, and a menacious one at that: one in which the governers seem to loathe the governed, and work with all but their governed’s interest in their mind.
    ————–

    Coming to your point on fertility, I see what you say, but what about birth rates in South Korea/Japan?
    Besides, I have read they are steeply falling in the Muslimsphere too, as well as in Israel.

    Regardless, I can’t see anything “eugenicist” to such policies.

    ———————-
    “Forty or fifty years ago, the Chinese government was far more ideological than its American counterpart, which led to all sorts of problems, but these days it is the American government which operates within a narrow ideological straightjacket.”

    A naive observer would wonder why, if ideology and authoritarianism blight countries and hinder advancement, do governments allow themselves become ideological?

    But asking that question assumes free will, the free will of governments

    • Replies: @dahoit
  60. @Talha

    http://www.economist.com/news/china/21662592-article-looks-sharp-rise-young-chinese-happy-live-themselves-next-old

    Maybe you had already read that news, or guessed it on your own; if so, you guessed very right.
    Life style and ambitions of young Chinese in China’s big cities is shifting very quickly to Western, “postmodern” model. 30% live alone in the most “advanced” areas, and many want to do the same as soon as they can.

  61. Historian says:
    @Hbd investor

    The reason why China’s population exploded from 200 million at the end of ww2 to 1.4 billion was because Mao believed that ww3 was coming and they needed as many people as possible to increase their chances of winning a nuclear war.

    If the Communists could create 1.2 billion people with a snap of a finger there is no reason why they can’t do it again

    The population of China at the end of World War II was over 500 million, although nobody knew this at the time. When the Communists took their first census, they were surprised to discover that they ruled 583 million people.

    The population had just cracked 1 billion when the one-child policy was put into place.

    That’s an increase of 400 million, not 1.2 billion.

  62. 5371 says:
    @Hbd investor

    Nope. China’s population was about 500 million at the end of WW2, and it grew rapidly due not to a rise in the birth rate but to a rapid improvement in public health

    • Replies: @dcite
  63. RolfDan says:

    Any intellectual explosion comes from a dam breaking. A population that has been separate before, but is highly educated, suddenly breaks the dam and transforms everything in its path.

    Christians in Europe started the proto-universities of Europe. Studying scripture sharpened their minds, and eventually the dam broke and the love of learning spread into the secular world, with associated scientific revolutions.

    The same happened with the Islamic golden age. And from the 19th century, there has been a Jewish wave. The dam was broken by Jewish Emancipation, and all those centuries of Torah study had prepared the Jews for the secular world of ideas.

    The Chinese dam is breaking with its opening up to the west, as the Japanese did after WW2. Like the previous waves this will change all of us, but will also fade in a century or two. Perhaps a North Korean wave will occur soon.

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  64. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Maybe there is a connection to the low birthrates among Reform Jewish women.

    Liberalism and feminism are self-limiting, luckily.

    • Replies: @pickwickcircle24
    , @dahoit
  65. kiismerh says:
    @Hacienda

    1. You are obviously Korean and think that you have a great sense of humor both as an individual and as a nation.
    2. You seem to think since that is what you learned from the Western media that Woody Allen and Seinfeld are the epitomes of a sophisticated sense of humor. “Just take my word for it”, they are very far from that. (I don’t know Steve Martin)

    I know I can’t convince you that you are wrong on both accounts that is why I had to steal quoted line from your message. If I could than I would be able to teach you a sense of humor as well.

    • Replies: @Hacienda
    , @Priss Factor
  66. Lot says:
    @Hbd investor

    If empty wombs are a problem the ccp would solve it immediately by offering tax cuts to the families with children and implementing pregnancy leaves along with propaganda to have more children.

    Has not worked in Han-majority Singapore. Tax cuts won’t work, taxes in China are not that high, and the country is still poor even no taxes would still mean their incomes are far below ultra low-fertility Hong Kong, Taiwan, and Singapore.

    Demographic momentum and dependency ratio is also very bad for China.

  67. Lot says:

    Low birth rates and high intermarriage means the share of the US young population that is pure Ashkenazi but not anti-education ultra-Orthodox has probably dropped from about 4% in the 1930’s to 1950’s to 1.25% now.

  68. http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/china-hopes-to-land-on-mars-by-2020/article/2589252

    Where a non-minor point to be noted is th stress they lay on a wish to co-operate with the U.S.
    (it can be inferred they have received no responses up to now.)

  69. @Anonymous

    All anti-natural attitudes are self-limiting, as long as the stage is that of nature (we may be approaching a technohuman era).

  70. bossel says:
    @Ron Unz

    ”…except that even during this so-called “slowdown” China’s per capita GDP has been increasing at roughly 10x America’s rate.

    Your chart only shows data till 2010. The slowdown only really started 2 or 3 years ago. I doubt that Chinese incomes are still doubling so quickly. They may still be growing overall (definitely not in all sectors of the economy), but not as fast as before.

    China has a fairly non-ideological, pragmatic government

    Again, not so much anymore. Xi Jinping is the most ideological leader the PRC had for a long time. Depends on how you define “fairly”, but under Xi it’s going quite rapidly backwards.

    implement those policies it believes are best for China and for the Chinese

    Mainly it implements those policies which help the CPC to stay in power.

    Surely marriage rates would skyrocket

    Similar measures as mentioned have been (partially in effect for a long time or recently) taken in several European countries. Hasn’t changed much.

    The Chinese leaders seem sensible

    Good one. The key word here is probably “seem”.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  71. @Talha

    In the years immediately after war w/ Iraq, Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary leadership implemented pro-reproduction policies very much like those that Ron described. Where do you think the population bubble of under-40s in Iran came from? While it is usually the case that a culture that experienced devastating losses in war would experience a subsequent decline in fertility (a situation that was deliberately exacerbated in Germany post-WWII), the IRI took deliberate measures to successfully counter that phenomenon.

    Iran invested in education, including education of women — college is state-subsidized for those who pass certain tests; 60% of university students are female. — also invested heavily in community health care, extended to Iran’s rural populations, where electrification and education were also prioritized.

    Iran has had ethnically diverse populations for centuries, but they are united around Islamic-inflected core Persian culture — in literature, language, architecture, art, and an awareness of their history. But whichever — ethnically diverse or culturally unified, Iranian women mated with Iranian men to produce Iranian children.

    • Replies: @5371
    , @No_0ne
  72. dcite says:
    @5371

    As everywhere that utilized “western conveniences” like hot and cold running water, flush toilets, a controlled sewage system, and public health practitioners. Populations grow fast and incrementally when 6 out of a family’s 6 children survive, compare to two out of six.

  73. Ron Unz says:
    @bossel

    Your chart only shows data till 2010. The slowdown only really started 2 or 3 years ago.

    That’s exactly why I emphasized that although the chart was slightly dated, the current trends are almost indistinguishable. Whereas urban Chinese incomes were doubling every 5 years at the peak a decade or so ago, now they’re doubling about every 10 years. And per capita income growth in Chinese is indeed about 10x that in America, though you’d never guess that by reading MSM headlines. Bear in mind that per capita income growth in the U.S. has been quite low for many years.

    One of these days I’ll get around to spending five minutes updating my chart…

  74. @RolfDan

    Studying scripture sharpened their minds, and eventually the dam broke and the love of learning spread into the secular world, with associated scientific revolutions.

    The West and especially whatever it is that passes for Christianity and Catholicism today would do well to get over its erroneous belief that scripture — by which I assume you mean Old and New Testaments — was such a singularly important and major source of scholarship and learning. Cicero (106 – 43 BC), Virgil (70 – 19 BC), Livy (59 BC – AD 17), Ovid (43 BC – 17 AD), Plutarch (46 – 120 AD), among others, produced writing that pre-dated or coincided with the Vulgate and that influenced European thought-leaders and academics.

  75. 5371 says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    [it is usually the case that a culture that experienced devastating losses in war would experience a subsequent decline in fertility]

    WW1 in the west, yes, but the decline was already in full swing before the war started. All experience and logic would lead one to expect the opposite – quick breeding to repair the losses. In fact, the only case I can think of where a rapid fall in the fertility rate happened right after a destructive war is precisely Iran following 1988.

  76. Hacienda says:
    @Anonymous

    I’m Korean American and bilingual. Known Koreans and Americans all my life.
    So, unless you have a similar background, yes, take my word for it. Koreans don’t lack humor and they aren’t high functioning autistics. Humor is a deep thing that comes in all varieties, from all conditions, like music. I’m telling you, white humor is not always the best humor. Peak white American humor occurred early 20th century, sorry, it did. Now it’s all about transgenderism, apologetics to colored people, and geeky bitch’in. While this is funny too, it’s not the same. Just not.

    • Replies: @Talha
  77. OLD JEW says:
    @pickwickcircle24

    Dear P.

    You make a salient point, a good point.

    Please forgive.

    My bias and prejudice show. In plain sight.

    Look at my pseudonym: besides being a Jew, I am also Old.

    Thus tend to look back 25 years ago thru rosy glasses.

    But notice, I did not mention MY school grades (way less to boast about)
    only my daughter’s and her friend.

    I remember, it irked me that those smart Asian kids ranked in the three top spots.

    Sorry,
    sf

    • Replies: @Hacienda
  78. Hacienda says:
    @kiismerh

    If I could than I would be able to teach you a sense of humor as well.

    ——–

    Who do you consider funny? I find peak Woody Allen and Seinfeld to be very funny and among the most sophisticated comics with mass following. Steve Martin helped revolutionize American humor, took it out of the model of stand up one-liners and direct narrative. If you don’t know Martin, you don’t even understand American humor, leave alone Asian humor.

    • Replies: @kiismerh
  79. Priss Factor [AKA "Dominique Francon Society"] says: • Website

    The thing you gotta understand about Chiners is they are snakes and weasels.

    Chinese businessmen are notorious for all kinds of dirty deeds.

    A Japper’s words have some value. Jappers developed honor by the culture of belly slitting via harakiri if someone did wrong. Chinese just lie and lie and lie and cheat and cheat and cheat. They have no sense of honor. Even Chinese morality like guanxi promotes corruption. I learned this in a college class on Chinese culture. Guanxi is essential to understanding Chinese mind. Good deeds hide corruption and trading favors.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guanxi

    Also, Chinese have combo of excessive arrogance(middle kingdom mentality) and excessive butthurt self-pity & rage. “Me so thorny, me so thorny.”

    A thorny people indeed.

    At any rate, Chinese success IN America is individual, not collective. There is very weak sense of Chineseness among the Chinee-Americans whose main culture is pop culture, rap, comics, hollywood. Most Chinee-Amers I know worship negroes in the NBA over all else. That is their culture. Chinese study to go to good schools and make money. Not because they care about ideas and culture. Also, even if some Chinee go to elite schools and do well, your average Chinee-American don’t make it there. Indeed, due to anti-asian affirm action bias, you have to super-smart to make it into elite schools. Otherwise, your’e out. Not making it into elite is okay for Chinee girl because they still have ‘me so horny’ suzie womg appeal. But because the chinee male has such low market value in sexual competition, his failure to have extra success and fame means his life is that of loser geek with videogames(unless he gets a girl from China, but that is bad cuz China has a huge female deficit already).
    Chinee-American girls care only about personal happiness and that means choosing non-chinese mate like Amy Chua. She says in her book that Jewish-male(with meater) and Chinese female pairing is like the norm in elite circles.
    So, even if Chinese succeed as individuals, there is no collective glue among chinee. The most important bond of a people is male and female. Such doesn’t exist among Asian Americans. So, Chinee women provide wombs for others and Chinee men just work as drones and play video games all their lives.

    [MORE]

    In the end, even Mexers will win out over yelloids because they have more kids.

    Just look at the Jews. They also face reproductive problem.
    Reform Jews succeed more as individuals but too many don’t have kids or marry non-Jews or become lost in fashionable Liberalism(which has become batshit crazy).

    Pitfalls of secular Jewish culture:

    When Jews lose God, they do funny things with power.

    Ortho Jews are less successful materially but they breed more and emphasize culture and identity. Money don’t create people. Pud and pooter(or cooter) do. Ortho Jews got union of Jewish pud and Jewish pooter.
    Through the ages, Jews had money, lost money, had money, lost money, and etc.
    But what held the Jewish community and identity together?
    Unity of Jewish men and Jewish women and remembrance of family and tribe through personal stories about family and Jewish history. In this sense, the Torah has more value than all the money in the world.
    If Jews lose all the money but have the Torah(and unity of the Jewish pud and Jewish poon), they survive and people and culture. But if Jews got all the money but ignore what they are and intermarry and raise their kids to be fashionably neurotic like Dunham or Sulkowicz, that’s the end.

    When I see Ortho Jewish families who are committed to culture and heritage, I’m inspired, though not with Hasidim who are too tardish with their silly hair.
    Among the orthos I can see and sense the deep connection between the father and his kibblers.

    In contrast, look at Lena Dunham and Emma Sulkowicz, the hybrid products of Jews who lost their way.

    It’s Decalogue Jews vs Golden Calf Jews.

    It’s Michael Medved Jews and Bob Dylan Jews vs Larry Kramer Jews and Andrea Dworkin Jews.

    In the end, the Decalogue Jews will outlast the Calfies.

    Go Moses.

    • Replies: @Inque Yutani
    , @Equalizer
  80. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @dcite

    Asians want to come here because of the money. It’s not culture that drives people here, be it asians or others.

    If whites immigrate somewhere en mass, it will be because somewhere else offers them better economic opportunity, not because of cultural reasons. You travel some place to experience the culture, you don’t move.

    It used to be that America was rich because of the hard work of its people, now America is mainly rich because of momentum and dollar hedgemony. Both of which are becoming unwound.

    So a lot of Fred observed is based on whites just grasping for straws of how da chinaman’s success is just smoke and mirrors and China will crumble.

    • Replies: @dcite
  81. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    This is just the same tired old yarn white people keep spinning.

    That Asians are drones who are only good at taking tests and whites are wonderful creative types who are all busy inventing ipods.

    First of all, a lot of the “spark” you see from white people comes from Jewish white people. Not your common white you see walking around. Einstein, Seinfeld, Spielberg are all Jewish.

    Remove Jews from the white population and your creative narrative falls apart considerably.

    Second, as mentioned in the article, the types of Jews who contributed a lot to Science and to the Arts has diminished a lot as Ashkenazi Jews have either intermarriage or produced below the replacement rate. Low IQ Orthodox Jews are the ones who have been breeding and will replace the smart Jews.

    • Replies: @bunga
    , @martin_2
    , @Karl
  82. Priss Factor [AKA "Dominique Francon Society"] says:

    http://www.soiledsinema.com/?zx=30698f8f70edf8d7

    Neurosis can make for interesting individuality but not lasting cultural identity.

    It’s as if Reform Jews or Post-Jews have adopted neurosis as the new Jewish identity.

    A people overly obsessed with the odd and new but indifferent to the old and true are bound to get lost.

    This Jewish promotion of homo agenda seems like a projective institutionalization of the neurotic and odd as the new American identity.

    Tattoos and butt-banging as the new Americanism via Jewish culture of neurosis. Where will all this lead?

  83. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Jews have diminshed, because in the past Jews had to create something of value I’m order to make it in life. Hence the high art and science achievements.

    Now that Jews run America like the mafia does, Jews have more guaranteed avenues of success that don’t require much from them. Jews now run the media, finance, law, Ivy Leagues etc. And once your in you don’t have to worry about producing so much since what you produced isn’t why you got your position in the first place.

    It is easier to let the goyim build a business for you and then just copy it or buy them out using a hedge fund. This is what Zuckerberg and the Google guys did, whereas in the past they would have had to do it all themselves.

    • Replies: @Priss Factor
  84. Hacienda says:
    @OLD JEW

    At my daughter’s high school graduation, I heard the valedictory speech given by an Asian girl.
    Smart, witty, on point with precocious knowledge of current culture. Don’t so irked, my man.

  85. Talha says:
    @Hacienda

    I’m a big fan of Japanese cinema from the 50s, 60s and 70s (not much exposure to Korean) and I know what you are talking about. The humor is subtle and different but it is definitely there and charming.

    Peace.

  86. kiismerh says:
    @Hacienda

    I checked that Martin guy and he is completely infantile. No wonder you like him and confirm what I said before: Asian sense of humor is on the level of a 10 year old.

    Here are some example for sophisticated humor: P.G. Wodehouse, Gary Larson or for you probably surprisingly Mike Judge, creator of Beavis and Butt-Head.

    • Replies: @Hacienda
  87. Priss Factor [AKA "Dominique Francon Society"] says: • Website
    @kiismerh

    “(I don’t know Steve Martin)”

    What planet have you been on?

    Martin had highs and lows.

    His highs are very high.

    • Replies: @kiismerh
  88. Hacienda says:
    @kiismerh

    I think you’re too categorical in your thinking. Kind of like the snobs who say any music that is classical must be superior to any music that is pop when there are clunkers in classical music and brilliant pop music.

    Steve Martin is not infantile. It takes an a remarkable amount of effort and balls for an intelligent grown white male in that time to be as ridiculous as he was. He’s stated that it took ten years of hard work and refining for him to develope his act until he got to the level he did. The acceptance of his humor opened the doors for lesser comedians like Steve Kaufman, Pee Wee Herman. Heralded the arrival of Saturday Night Live.

    PG Wodehouse, I haven’t read. Gary Larsen is geeky humor and funny, but there is no objective measure that says he’s more sophisticated than the comics of “무한 도전” which relies upon cultural awareness and precise physical and verbal timing of the team members.

  89. Priss Factor [AKA "Dominique Francon Society"] says: • Website

    http://www.ancient-origins.net/history/surprising-japanese-interpretation-lost-years-jesus-christ-006023

    “Some Japanese researchers think that Jesus’ history is different from what is generally believed. This alternative version of Christ’s story was forgotten until 1935, when Kiyomaro Takeuchi (Takenouchi) reportedly discovered an ancient document in Ibaraki Prefecture in Japan. The text of the manuscript presented a shocking tale. It says that Jesus was buried in Herai Village in the Aomori district in Japan.”

    Human mind is limitless in its nuttery.

    But perhaps, instead of just dismissing nutty claims, we should value the insights they offer as to how the human mind works.
    Even nutty stuff yield secrets to to the tendencies of the mind.

    This is the decisive key to Jewish power.

    Some people will see or hear something stupid and just dismiss it.

    In contrast, Jews will ponder why the human mind can fall for dumbass or nutty stuff. This will lead to secrets of how the mind operates and how it can be manipulated.

    So, if someone like Richard Dawkins says ‘religion is wrong and stupid’ and totally rejects it, Jews will delve into how humans with power of reason could nevertheless believe in fantasy. Consider Spielberg’s neo-Christo fable with ET. Incredibly, he made countless kids worship and weep over an androgynous walking turd from outerspace that munches on reeses pieces. He knew what imagistic and emotional buttons to push. Spielberg is much bigger than Dawkins.

    If culture snobs will just dismiss trash as low culture, Jews will wonder why so many people are addicted to trashy stuff.

    And if you learn the secrets, you can formulate means to control the entire masses.

    After all, the homo agenda was not spread through rational debate or factualism.

    [MORE]

    It was proglytized (prog-proselytized) with fanfare and hype like the Catholic Church used to do.

    The masses were fanta-fudged into worshiping the homo. Homo agenda is not about a social acceptance of homos but about neo-spiritual celebration of homos as angels.

    Smart individuals often reject untrue or stupid stuff and just live in their own world. Like traditional Episcopalians. They may have privilege but they have no power over masses whom they sneer at.

    Dumb masses often accept nonsense and stupid stuff.

    Smart individuals who crave power(many Jews) need to sway the dumb masses, and so they look to nonsense and stupid stuff(that has great appeal to the masses) for clues as to what is most appealing to the masses.
    Thus, they formulate the clues into a strategy of mass control via the manipulative art.

    It’s like you gotta rummage through the shit or garbage to really understand what appeals to the consumptive habits of people.
    You gotta examine the waste to determine the taste.

    It’s no wonder Jews and not Episcopalian Brahmins of the East Coast came to dominate American movie culture.
    If you hold your nose above the shit, you won’t make the hit.

    If you want to fund astronomy, make money by selling astrology.
    If you know how most human mind works, you know astrology is more effective in manipulating the masses than astronomy is.

    Homo Agenda was more about ass-trology than ass-tronomy.

    Fact of ass-tronomy is some men are born to indulge do sodomic-buggering.
    Not very appealing.

    In contrast…

    Faith in ass-trology is that homos and trannies are like rainbow angels.
    Oh, that is so fun and rapturous.

  90. Priss Factor [AKA "Dominique Francon Society"] says:
    @Anonymous

    “Jews have diminshed, because in the past Jews had to create something of value I’m order to make it in life. Hence the high art and science achievements.”

    Jews are now more powerful than ever.

    But money and books and real estate and etc don’t create new life.

    A man with a billion dollars who has no kids is rich only for one lifetime.

    A man with thousand dollars who has 5 kids pass down a living culture.

    Of course, Jews do have children, and 1/2 Jew kid is reliably Jewish.

    1/4 Jew kid too maybe.

    But a 1/8 or 1/16 Jew kid?

    Anthony Weiner’s kid is gonna be less reliably Jewish.

    Still, Jews are still out-performing most groups in most stuff.

    Even if Jewish intellectual and cultural achievements are diminished compared to the past, they have no competition… except from blacks in rap but Jews control music industry.

    PC is controlled by Jews. As Asians are teacher’s pets, they just follow PC.
    Jews and Asians have same politics in the US, but Jews shape it whereas Asians just follow it.

    The danger for Jews is that the logic of PC might end up boomeranging on them.
    It could lead to POC seeing Jews as part of ‘white privilege’ and seeing Zionism as part of ‘racism’.
    Homos are most reliable ally of Jews, but what if homos side with BDS one of these days?

    There is now a homo civil war between Jewish/white homos who support Israel and diverse-ass-homos who stick up for Palestine.

    Lib Jews staked their reputation on Jewish nationalism(support for Israel) and proggy politics.

    But many Jews are now pressured to choose one or the other.

    Jews like philip weiss have chosen proggyism while some Jews harden into ardent Zionists.

    With total victory of proggyism and diversityism over whites in media and academia, many POC are less riled about ‘white evil’.

    They are more into fighting over spoils of victory that seem to disproportionately in hands of Jews. And Jews are increasingly on the defensive, esp as POC cannot be silenced by invoking ‘racism’.

  91. Priss Factor [AKA "Dominique Francon Society"] says: • Website

    Japanese national character is more like northern Europe.

    Chinese national character is more like southern Europe.

    Some Chinese in Italy:

    http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/italy-crackdown-chinese-community-violent-40278754

    —-On Friday, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Hong Lei said the Chinese embassy and consulate had lodged a complaint with Italy, “urging it to carry out civilized law enforcement and fair investigation” while protecting the rights and safety of Chinese citizens in Italy.—-

    Like I said, Chinese are like snakes and weasels.

    They bash Tibetans real good but talk about ‘civilized law enforcement’.

    • Replies: @DB Cooper
  92. bunga says:
    @Anonymous

    Did industrialization happen ? Who invented calculus, higher algebra, atoms,Periodic table, radiation -x rays, provided optics light ,nature of waves, invented engines and started motorized travel aero space, produced cheap farming or sailing or boating lost goes on and on.
    Don’t see Jewish there until 20th century .

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  93. kiismerh says:
    @Priss Factor

    I am European. Was able to watch only the first two of your links. If there was a sense of humor quotient something similar to IQ, yours would definitely be below 100. Sorry.

    • Replies: @Priss Factor
  94. Priss Factor [AKA "Dominique Francon Society"] says:
    @kiismerh

    “I am European… Sorry”

    French can’t do physical comedy.

    German comedy? Where?

    There’s a saying.

    “Hell is where Swedes do comedy.”

    Only Brits, Italians, Jews,Jivers, and Hong-Kongers do good comedy.

    But the Dinner Game the French movie was funny as hell.

    And Kusterica is funny as hell.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLNx-w7yBFk

    • Replies: @5371
  95. Svigor says:

    Another of my friends has an Asian wife and thus entree into the Asian community. He quotes their (wisely private) outlook: “Whites are lazy and stupid.”

    Perhaps, but Whites are obviously superior at creating countries that Yellows want to live in. Yellows are clever and industrious, but they’re also bland, conformist, and corrupt. We’d be wise to exclude them from our living spaces, ere Yellows make them as bland, conformist, and corrupt as their homelands.

    China is by far the world leader in high-speed rail, of which America has none.

    China needs advanced mass transit far more than we do. There’s a billion of them packed into an area roughly the size of the 13 colonies. And their ant-hill-like lack of diversity (sorry, a globalist spirit came over me for a moment) means they can actually enjoy whatever mass transit they devise.

    “Asians tend not to balk from manual or undesirable labor. They don’t see it as a sign of low rank.”

    Jewry is the Galactic Headquarters for contempt for manual labor.

    The smartest Jews tend to be secular, and about half of secular Jews are marrying non-Jews, and most of the ones that do raise their kids non-Jewish. (1488 crowd shibboleths notwithstanding). When those kids grow up, they have some of the smart genes, (or all, if assortative mating is holding up). But they don’t have the Jewish label.

    What’s funny is how Jews either trumpet or bemoan this supposedly epic level of Jewish tolerance (depending on their audience), but it’s actually evidence of Jews’ relative intolerance; imagine if Irish Catholics or Anglo-Saxons or Italians in America only married other whites at that rate. The NYT would be on them like stink on shit. Jews are easily the most endogamous white group in America.

    Wilson: Jews got one idea about lots of stuff: whether White “gentiles” are worthy of the rights Jews have (they aren’t), whether it’s okay to promote destructive liberalism and open borders for White “gentiles” while promoting the opposite for Jews (it is), whether Israel should survive as a Jewish supremacist apartheid state (it should), etc., etc., etc.

    • Replies: @dahoit
  96. Svigor says:

    Actually, I think these critiques of China’s prospects are just total MSM nonsense/propaganda, much like how the old USSR used to endlessly critique America’s dreadful economic problems during the 1970s and 1980s.

    Hmm. The Soviet critique of America depended wholly on the fact that America was an open society, and the USSR was a closed one; it’s easy to create a false narrative in that situation.

    Does China today seem more open and honest than America?

  97. martin_2 says:
    @Anonymous

    There are 1.3 billion Chinese. There are roughly 50 million English. The average IQ of the Chinese is around 105, English is around 100. Yet I cannot think of one living Chinese mathematician or physicist of such renown as Roger Penrose, Stephen Hawking, Andrew Miles, John Conway, Alan Baker, Ben Green; except for Terence Tao.
    There must be something genetic going on.

  98. Svigor says:

    Far as I can tell, Chinese have that Arab/Jew/Wog thing, “either at your feet or at your throat,” when it comes to manual labor. That is, when they succeed, they’re quick to turn around and sneer at what’s “beneath” them, take a tone with their “inferiors,” etc. Not a whole lot of introspection. Obviously this is a human trait, but groups fall along the spectrum, and I don’t see much “noblesse oblige” in non-whites.

    • Replies: @SFG
  99. martin_2 says:

    America is not the only white country. What about Europe? American comedy is absolutely chronic. They have no idea. The whole of human existence can be summed up in a selected half hour of Benny Hill. He was not Jewish. For recent cultural highs one needs to look at Russian twentieth century classical music, no Jews there to speak of.

  100. Svigor says:

    I believe China is also the world leader in vacant high rise buildings. Maybe there is a need for high-speed rail in China that simply doesn’t exist in the U.S.

    This. It’s like the Chinese bragging about being the best at Chinese ink paintings, or Americans bragging about having the biggest and best baseball leagues. We can’t even find a real need for Amtrack, but we’re supposed to go all hot and heavy for high speed rail?

    I want my country to be the world leader in things that I actually admire in Asians, Jews, and others: the ability to preserve our ethnic genetic interests, keep our borders closed, and being impenetrable to critique by aliens.

  101. Svigor says:

    I challenge you to find a funnier example or wishful thinking on China than at:

    http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/06/chinas-twilight-years/480768/

    “Twilight years”. And soon they’ll have to open their borders…

    I have observed an overriding need among slaves to see others enslaved, among eunuchs to see all men gelded, etc.

  102. DB Cooper says:
    @Priss Factor

    Nothing bash the Tibetans like the Indians.

    India invaded and annex a part of Tibet in 1951 and still brutally occupy it to this day. The area include Tawang, birthplace of the Sixth Dalai Lama and home to one of the holiest Tibetan monasteries. There are laws allowing the Indian government to detain or even kill any locals there. The law is called AFSPA. Tibetans and other Northeasterners in India are regularly taunted with racial slurs from the Indians. Some even got killed because they ‘look Chinese’.

    That allegations of Tibetans are oppressed under Chinese rule is a MSM construct. Go there and talk to the local Tibetans in China. It is not what you think.

    • Replies: @Priss Factor
    , @anonymous
  103. Priss Factor [AKA "Dominique Francon Society"] says:
    @DB Cooper

    Okay, Chinese and Indians bash Tibetans real good.

  104. Priss Factor [AKA "Dominique Francon Society"] says:
    @martin_2

    “The average IQ of the Chinese is around 105”

    This is based on questionable data of elite kids in Shanghai.

    The regular Chiner’s IQ is no higher than that of whitey.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  105. wow, I see that this article touched a very, very sensitive nerve.

    please write more of this fred. the frenzied responses from some of the commentators is eye opening.

    • Replies: @Priss Factor
  106. Priss Factor [AKA "Dominique Francon Society"] says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    I don’t know if Fred Fred Cabbage Head is really being sincere or trolling.

    His stuff about Mexican genius in every corner is funny as hell.

  107. Priss Factor [AKA "Dominique Francon Society"] says:

    In all this talk of Jews and Chiners, what about the Anglos?

    They are the ones who built US, Canada, and Australia that are controlled by Jews and filling up with Chiners.

    I think Australia and Canada better be more vigilant about Chiners as they do have the possibility of being overrun by them. Chiners have to deal with too much diversity and other groups to ever take power in the US.

    Anyway, what of the Anglos in this new system? What role will they play?

    And why did they lose out in the lands of their own creation?

    Maybe their very advantage had a huge weakness.

    The huge advantage of Anglos was principle, honor, and rule of law.

    But for those to work properly, a community has to be de-culture-ized. Rule of law must apply to all individuals. Principle means one has to favor stuff like meritocracy over one’s own kind. And honor means one must maintain dignity.

    Among themselves, these were good things to have. But those factors de-emphasized culture and kinship and heritage since laws must be fair and neutral to all.

    So, over time, Anglos lost their blood-and-guts identity.

    And when their nations were filled up with darkies and Jews, Anglos didn’t have the red blood and guts cultural tribal sense to fight and win. Their culture became golf club privilege and high-toned air of Bill Buckley.
    And if white people did dig into blood and guts, their enemies could invoke the very Anglo book of fairness and point out how ‘racist’ the Anglos were acting.

    So, Rule of Law and Neutral Justice are good things… but they turn people into bland individuals who are decultured and favor principles over blood and homeland. When such anemic people come in contact with red blooded folks, they lack the balls to fight and struggle.

    Jews learned the art/science of rule of law, but they never gave up their blood and guts cultural sense… and they esp regained it after the problems of communism, nazism, and Zionism.

    Communism taught socialist Jews that just being ‘worker of the world’ was dull and meaningless. While social justice is good, man needs culture and history and heritage.
    So, Jews found more satisfaction in Zionism that bound socialism with Jewish identity and culture.
    In some ways, Germans did same with National Socialism that bound Germanism with socialism. If Nazis had kept it national devoid of nasty chauvinism, it might have succeeded like Zionism. But Hitler was a racial chauvinist and imperialist. (It could be that the undoing of Zionism in the long run is its imperialist side. Occupation of West Bank is turning out costly. And Ziocon messing of the Middle East may lead to some long term disasters for Jews.)

    Anyway, rule of law and idea of justice are good and necessary but they are tools. They are weak as core culture and identity of a people.

    A Jew who feels as Jew and Zionist has meaning. But a Jew who rejects his identity and says, “I’m just for individual liberty and rule of law” has weak meaning.

    Tools are good and necessary but must not be mistaken with the person of blood and flesh they serve.

    After all, each person matters more as a blood-and-flesh product of family than any ideology he adopts.
    If ideology or ideas count the most in determining identity, then it means you are NOTHING unless you believe in something. What you believe counts more than your very existence.

    So, if you believe libertarianism is what counts most, a person who is not libertarian is not human and has no value. But in fact, a person’s worth remains intact regardless of what he believes.
    A Jew is no less a Jew for abandoning communism and adopting capitalism. He is still a Jew. His core identity is more than any ideology. This is why a Jew must put Jewishness and Zionism first before any ideology. He may adopt parts of ideologies to serve his Jewish interest. But the thing is to have the ideology to serve him and his people than to have him and his people serve an ideology as the endall of truth.

    Tools exist to serve humans, humans don’t exist to serve tools.
    Even Marx made this point. Economics must serve man. But capitalism too often makes us believe we exist to serve the economy.

    Economy must serve man and his nation.

    Globalism says ALL MEN must serve the economy of globalists.
    In the end, it means we all must serve the economy of Wall Street and Las Vegas.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  108. Svigor says:

    AO: yellows do tend to have chips on their shoulders. Probably comes from finding white-created societies more appealing than the ones they create.

    Japanese accepted, God bless ’em. They’re hard core racists, and as dishonest as any other yellow race, but at least they made their own country something to be admired, keep others out, and have no interest in infesting others’. And they make great cars.

    • Replies: @ChaseBizzy
  109. Svigor says:

    Er, “excepted.”

  110. SFG says:
    @Svigor

    You see it in silly lefty Ashkenazi Israeli publications like Haaretz.

    For that matter the whole left-wing social justice/tikkun olam thing does have a definite air of noblesse oblige about it. “We have suffered so now we must help those who are suffering,” etc. The Jewish civil rights workers were never as badly off as the blacks they were trying to help. I was just reading Confederacy of Dunces (great book, BTW), set in New Orleans in the sixties, and while the black guy’s cleaning the floors the Jewish couple owns the factory. (There’s also a hilarious Jewish activist lady–you can see what lefties were like before the women realized the guys were taking advantage of ‘free love’ to mess around, and Ignatius Reilly definitely reminds me of Mencius Moldbug.)

    What’s that you say? They should extend that noblesse oblige to poor whites as well? Especially ones who live in rural areas and get screwed by trade policy, moral collapse, and Section 8 v0uchers? Hey, you asked if it existed, not if it was actually good for society.

  111. Priss Factor [AKA "Dominque Francon Society"] says:
    @Ivy

    Ron Jeremy

    Back in the 80s, a Jewish kid had a VCR and showed us one of his pa’s adult videos.

    Shiite, this Jeremy fella had a meater so long that he could suck his own dick.

  112. Priss Factor [AKA "Dominque Francon Society"] says:
    @Bee

    He wants Kunta Kinte to screw the white girl in Star Schwarz.

  113. Priss Factor [AKA "Dominque Francon Society"] says: • Website
    @Priss Factor

    Jews and Asians are like blacks and whites in sports.

    You see good number of whites in college level football and basketball, but when it comes to the pros, blacks totally dominate.

    Likewise, at college level, Asians have lot of firepower.
    But when it comes to true innovation and creativity after college, Jews dominate.

    Education is about mastering accumulated knowledge. It depends a lot on effort and practice. Asians can do that.

    But real achievement is about creating something new, thinking something no one did before, and going to where no man has gone before. It requires spark, inspiration(than mere perspiration).

    Asians are good at learning about everything in settled space.
    Jews are much better at discovering uncharted territories.

    • Replies: @Rdm
  114. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @bunga

    The Chinese had their run too where they invented a lot, so did the Indians.

    Non Jewish whites are largely invisible now when it comes to cultural or Scientific impact. Common whites have neither the brain power nor the cultural traits to contribute anything of value.

    • Replies: @Priss Factor
    , @kiismerh
  115. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @martin_2

    There are not 50 million English with an IQ of 100. That is obviously a lie. There may be 50 million people in the UK, but they are all a mix of low IQ Muslims, Africans, and lower class whites mixed in with some exceptionally smart white people. A much smaller number than 50million of course.

    Also, the fact you haven’t heard of the contributions from other cultures doesn’t mean much either. Other countries like India and China are still emerging from agrarian societies. Also, Western institutions and media are biased in favor of their own kind. So I wouldn’t place much on what some Englishman has heard.

  116. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Priss Factor

    Another example of wishful thinking from white people.

    You are probably talking about PISA scores which are related to IQ but might have some variability in selection.

    The Chinese IQ was not taken from a small sample size from elite Shanghai students.

    If anything I would call into question the IQ of white people today. With how much immigration and race mixing that has gone on in Western societies, and the devaluation of the intellect for the last 30 or so years, I wouldn’t be surprised to see a big drop in white IQ.

  117. joe webb says:

    I saw a chart the other day with Asians, I guess chinese, at 117% higher in money making than White men in the US.

    White men have a couple IQ points less…and the smarter chinks get here in the first place compared to their stay-at-home brethren. Chinks have no outside interests except family, and so there work, work , work. no sports, no, motor sports, not much else…just nose to the grindstone and of course forget politics…prostrate in the dust in front of the Emperor du jour. Do what you are told. To Get Rich is Glorious! the current chink communist slogan.

    So, money, money, money is the chinky ca-ching, ca-ching, ca-ching!!! better than the jews.

    Joe Webb

  118. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Priss Factor

    The huge advantage of Anglos was divide and conquer, disregard of the human rights of non Anglos, and slavery.

    Anglos are best at dividing potential threats into pieces, and then getting them to attack each other while Anglos keep out of the frackas.

    While there Chinese visited the New World, they did not colonize or genocide the natives there. Whites killed them off and made them slaves.

    And this talk of justice, honor, rule of law, bla bla bla is just propaganda. This only applied to the people at the very top of those societies. Non anglos had none of these things, neither did non elite anglos save for a brief period of time in America.

    Nice try.

  119. @Hbd investor

    Er, Jimmy Carter was POTUS in 1978. Richard Nixon resigned August 9, 1974.

  120. Priss Factor [AKA "Dominique Francon Society"] says:
    @Anonymous

    It doesn’t matter.

    In the end, DQ or dick quotient will determine things.

    And in this Chinese fall short of whites, Jews, and esp the jaffers.

    In modern sexpot world, Chinee women are into me-so-horny mode.
    They lose virginity early to non-Asian men and ‘don’t want to go back.’
    Even bookworms like amy chua went non-chinee and in her book she says that is the norm in elite circles.

    Look how 50% of Chinee girl in the West give womb to non-Chinee men.
    They may be proud of Chinee cooking and culture but they are ashamed of chinee men or to have chinee men’s kids.
    Their policy is Chinese Male Exclusion Act in their pooter. Their bedrooms have No Dogs and Chinese Males Allowed.

    These mixed race kid will imprint on non-Chinese man as father and figure of authority, thus cultural identity. They will see their mothers as having dumped inferior Chinee men for superior non-chinee man.

    So, who wins in the end? Brains don’t create life. Puds do. And Chinee pud lose big in the DQ department esp in our porny world where girls are encouraged to loudly and publicly talk about dick, dick, dick like in sex and city.

    You come here with a brain filled with IQ but loin lacking in boing. Boing is Being.
    You read but no breed.
    Even a lowlife poor negro who humps ho’s will produce kids but you won’t produce any.

    Also, modern world calls for ‘game’. For most of Chinee history, no game was required. Chinee men and Chinee were matched by parents.
    And then, China was closed to the world and all Chinee werevpoor under communism. So, Chinee women only had Chinee men. Since all people poor, they married on just human affection.

    But in the West, Chinee girl is not just content with human affection.. She’s into fortune and success.
    Also, she can choose from all sorts of men and realize that Chinee men inferior in DQ and game.
    They are nerdy like this fella:

    What a panda boy dork.

    So, you lose. You may read more but you breed less.
    And since Chinee men evolved in slavish society, they no got ‘game’ and so very lame.

    It’s like the theory of the 3 C’s.

    http://mygumbyisyours.blogspot.com/2016/07/the-three-cs.html

    • Replies: @Hacienda
    , @Anonymous
  121. Escher says:
    @Gene Su

    You’re dead wrong I am afraid. Asians take great pride in having servants or others do their errands and unpleasant tasks for them.

  122. Priss Factor [AKA "Dominique Francon Society"] says:
    @Anonymous

    “While there Chinese visited the New World, they did not colonize or genocide the natives there. Whites killed them off and made them slaves.”

    Mao killed 50 million Chinese. Chinese were too busy killing own kind to bother with others.

    And in the 19th century, the Taiping Rebellion. shiite.

    Also, China was the #1 backer of the horrible Khmer Rouge.

    And if Anglos suck so bad, how come Hong Kong and Singapore do so well?

    And why do so many Chinese want to come to Anglospheric worlds?

    Why do they prefer rule of ‘white racists’ to yellow tyrants?

    And Chinese were into foot-binding for 1000 yrs.

    (Sad to say, the West now worships men who cut off dicks and balls)

    • Replies: @5371
    , @Equalizer
  123. 5371 says:
    @Priss Factor

    Louis de Funès couldn’t do physical comedy? Are you out of your mind?

  124. Rehmat says:

    No Fred Jewish population has not declined in the United States. Some of the Jews, though, have adopted Christian names to penetrate political and religious establishments in order to destroy Christian world from within. For example, John Kerry, president Eisenhower, John Bolton, Archbishop of Canterbury and Pope John Paul II, to name a few. Even some western writers have insisted that Adolf Hitler, Adolf Eichmann, Attaturk were Crypto Jews.

    If one believes the ‘Six Million Died’ story or Talmud’s narrative of “four billion Jews were killed by Romans” – there are over 13 million Jews are still living around the world mostly in Occupied Palestine, United States, France and Argentina.

    Chinese never killed a single Jew for political reason – but the have killed hundreds of thousands of native Muslims in China.

    China has very close relations with the Zionist entity, especially in arms and other technically fields. According to Newsweek, Chinese businessmen learn how to made more profit by studying Talmud.

    https://rehmat1.com/2015/01/28/israel-seeks-russia-china-help-to-ward-off-war-with-iran/

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  125. El Dato says:
    @Priss Factor

    J.J. Abrams who grew up in a Jewish-dominated America has no respect for white gentiles as he goes about filling STAR WARS sequel with a ghastly Negro as future impregnator of a white girl to produce a galactic Obama-mofo.

    I will save that quote.

    Still,,. as The Immortal Mister Plinkett explained in one of his reviews (but regarding Star Wars “The Phantom Menace”, as mis-directed by George Lucas):

    Why is Samuel Jackson in a Star Wars Movie?? He is there to pander to the “Urban Market” – which is to say Blacks. Well, the Urban Market once stole my video recorder…

  126. I figured it was the result of a few generations of Ivy-league types (Jewish and otherwise) selecting other Ivy-league types as mating partners and dumbing down the microcosm in the process. The children are legacies, and therefore don’t have to really try to get into the Ivy-league, but doing so gives the veneer of ongoing superiority.

    • Agree: Jacques Sheete
  127. avraham says:

    There was a kind of synergy between Reason and Revelation. This was based to a large degree on European Jew’s respect for Maimonides and the general Mediaeval approach which saw a strong connection between faith and reason. So there was plenty of motivation to see great good in STEM.

    • Replies: @dahoit
  128. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Articles by racist dbags always seems to attract a huge following of racist dbags.

    There is logic in this world.

  129. El Dato says:
    @Anonymous

    Anglos are best at dividing potential threats into pieces, and then getting them to attack each other while Anglos keep out of the frackas.

    This is why we have refined to a very high degree the art of leisurly smoking while waiting for events to unfold.

  130. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Calling these groups smart is hilarious.

    Let’s see, one group considers themselves chosen, and superior to others. They think others exist to serve them. A set of delusional beliefs which condemn their faith to the minuscule minority exclusive membership cult that they are.

    The other holds a faith that venerates their ancestors as gods, and not to forget their worship of wealth.

    How smart can they really be?

    • Replies: @Clyde
  131. Realist says:
    @pink_point

    “Bach’s and Beethoven’s IQ is estimated to have been more or less 160.”

    IQ estimates are worthless.

  132. Karl says:
    @anony-mouse

    > In the future all Jews will be Orthodox and/or Israeli

    bing fucking-o.

    The Pro Schneur League teams (eg, American Jewish Committee) are in quite the tizzy about it. Bureaucratic expense accounts are at stake, for christ’s sake!!

    .It’s also worth noting that China’s Tech rise coincides (time-wise) quite well, with the decision to send HUNDREDS of kids to Israeli universities every year.

    The Thai chicks still have a better rate of locking down an Israeli husband.

  133. Finally, their great leap forward, during our slow creep backward. Fits on a sticker which sticks to a bumper . . . where it may be ignored as we hurtle off the cliff.

  134. Karl says:
    @mtn cur

    > NSA can’t eavesdrop on the old mark I model 0 homing pigeon and likely never will

    Prussians had hawks to take out French pigeons smuggling messages out the Siege of Paris. Says wiki. Wiki is set up to repeat what someone else wrote; not all that much actual fact checking.

    • Replies: @mtn cur
  135. 5371 says:
    @Priss Factor

    [Also, China was the #1 backer of the horrible Khmer Rouge.]

    If you forget about the US.

  136. Clyde says:
    @anonymous

    Smarter than confident atheists like yourself.

  137. Here we go again with Freddy’s mindless obsession about IQ and intelligence and who has it and who doesn’t, yadda yadda yadda.

    “Years ago, when I was tech writer,… bla, blah, blah…”

    Wowza, I’m impressed and humbled all at once. Since yer so smart, I guess I’d better lissen up, eh? I better take yer evry werd as Gospel er sumpin cuz yer obviously my superior. I’m surprised you didn’t tell us agin how smart you must be cuz yerown daddy wuz a mathemutician fer da navy, and it’s in da jeans 😉 ‘n sech.

    Anyway, as any half wit can see, treating Jews as an ethnic group is pretty mindless since Judaism is a proselytizing religion. That means that Jews can be of any race or ethnicity just as Christians can. I guess even a fella with a high IQ (in Freddy’s case that obviously means Idiot Quotient) can ascertain what that means.

    Freddy, may I suggest you get someone to read and explain Sand’s book to you?

    “The Invention of the Jewish People,” first published in Hebrew in Israel with the title, Matai ve’ech humtza ha’am hayehudi?, is by Shlomo Sand, Professor of History at Tel Aviv University.

    It explains and clarifies a lot about Zionism as well as “Semitism.”

    The book was a bestseller in Israel for several months …

    http://mondoweiss.net/2011/12/new-york-times-implies-anti-zionism-is-anti-semitic.html
    Here’s more:

    “Countering official Zionist historiography, Sand questions whether the Jewish People ever existed as a national group with a common origin in the Land of Israel/Palestine. He concludes that the Jews should be seen as a religious community comprising a mishmash of individuals and groups that had converted to the ancient monotheistic religion but do not have any historical right to establish an independent Jewish state in the Holy Land. In short, the Jewish People, according to Sand, are not really a “people” in the sense of having a common ethnic origin and national heritage. They certainly do not have a political claim over the territory that today constitutes Israel and the occupied Palestinian territories, including Jerusalem.”

    http://inventionofthejewishpeople.politics.webfactional.com/

    • Replies: @WhatEvvs
    , @Che Guava
    , @biz
  138. George says:

    If Asians are so capable, why are our best and brightest, military academy grads, mostly white? Oo-rah!

    “Whites are lazy and stupid.” Excuse me Sir, “Whites are lazy and/or stupid.”, it’s blacks that are “lazy and stupid.”

    • Replies: @Randall Parker
  139. Unzerker says:
    @Renoman

    House and Garden Variety (non-Jewish) Caucasians

    It’s explained in the text, the first time it’s mentioned.

  140. AaronB says:

    Good noticng, Fred.

    It has been obvious for some time that the facts about IQ are murky. For instance, IQ proponets love to tell us IQ is well correlated to life success, which is true, but then so is ambition. How much of what IQ measures is simply ambition? I’d wager a fairly large percentage. So simple a concept, potentially so important, yet so rarely given any attention!

    Jewish over performance was never just about IQ, as statistically speaking, there were always way more high IQ whites in the country. There was always an intangible factor that loomed huge and enormous but no one could quite identify.

    Its not just IQ. The problem extends to all supposedly stable geneticaly heritable traits on a national level, which simply refuse to stay stable over time despite the best efforts of our best scientists to insist they should do so.

    The Germans were the sleepy, dreamy poets and thinkers of Europe for a long time, with an actual reputation for dishonesty and shoddy workmanship (!) for a while, and poor discipline.

    What happened to stable genetic traits that are heritable? Oh my.

    In the 19th cent, the popular tropes had it as, lazy, slothful Asians, and energetic westerners.

    Where did THAT go? Lazy chinese indeed.

    But as Steve Sailer says in another context, you’re not supposed to notice any of this stuff, because it threatens the attempt to erect a clear, simple, deterministic, picture of human nature scientists have been trying to establish for some time now.

    You can’t measure ambition, or other intangibles, so we all preferred to sweep these disagreeable little details under the rug in order to make tidy little narrative.

    The temper of the age is scientistic, so we ignore messy details and intangibles.

    The result is clarity at the expense of accuracy, simplicity and perhaps control at the sacrifice of understanding.

    At this point in time, it’s impose be to know the true differences in intelligence between groups. You tourself, Fred, have noticed that Mexicans ate far more intelligent than clueless Americans think, and I’ve noticed the same thing with all my third world travels.

    What if Mexicans simply don’t try very hard on IQ tests? How would we know this, how would we measure this?

    I’m Jewish, and was a national merit semifinalist from new york. I showed up to the test completely unaware it was that day, after a night of partying, and completely bungled the math section while doing great on English. My life was a shambles at that time anyways and i wasn’t laying any attention to math. If I were chinese, is there any doubt my parents would organize my whole life around doing great on that test?

    As a Jew, I know tons of clever and capable Jews, but the smartest people I’ve ever met were whites. What gives? Mere anecdote? Maybe.

    These non wrstern people are not as stupid as we think, far from it, and the reason they are not more advanced is because they simply have different priorities.

    Americans cannot understand how anyone can prefer a life that doesn’t involve being an advanced industrial economy. They are sure that if some countries fail at that, it can only be because of stupidity. Yet everything is a sacrifice, and how much have we lost in the West by becoming mere consumers in an an industrial economy? Yet we cannot imagine that other people may not be so eager to make that exchange. Of course, Americans are fools, so what can we expect?

  141. George says:
    @Ron Unz

    1900 was supposed to be the start of the German century, and it was: Germans in America.

    It may be that politcal systems do matter.

    WWII era remark: They might have more Germans, but we have better Germans. USA#1!!!!

  142. TheJester says:
    @Hbd investor

    Good point! Your comments parallel a recent article I read regarding why Germans are not having kids: high cost of living, high population density, small cramped apartments. There is also another very important shared reason: delayed marriage. As in Germany, the typical WASP in America now marries in his or her 30s. The women are already on the downward curve of their fertility cycles … and couples are habituated to lifestyles that do not make allowance for the disruptive existence of children in their lives.

    We used to have a saying when I was growing up in the 1960s:

    Young women should never marry men over 30 because they make lousy husbands.

    Why? In spite of their best intentions, by that time the men are committed bachelors in their values and lifestyles … and they will never change; that is, they will never become involved and attentive husbands and fathers. Jump ahead 20 years when women are also delaying marriage until their 30s and you get the same result. For both of them, having matched BMWs in the garage, evenings in the local pub, and exotic vacations are more appealing than changing diapers, sorting out (expensive) child care issues, and worrying about how to pay for college.

  143. Che Guava says:
    @tbraton

    Japan still has the greatest high-speed rail system in the world. Also the first.

    China’s may already be more extensive for distance (can’t be bothered to check, but likely true by now, given the greater distances), but hardly a network, so far a high incident rate, and much of the tech. and know-how is pilfered from here (and I would guess to a lesser extent, France).

    The network here can’t really be called a network, The hub is very much Tokyo. In a few regional cities, there are switches, where the train is split, and the parts go on to different destinations.

    There is a plan to make Osaka a second hub, but I have no idea how that is supposed to fit in with the planned Tokyo-to-Osaka maglev.

    The current theoretical maximum for splitting trains is about three times, but the trains only have two destinations, at least the last time I rode one, so I think the switching is limited to two .

    I like the slow trains, and recent policy has been to make a consortium of prefectural govt.and existing local private lines take over lines where the bullet trains run on different lines, with Japan Rail holding a share.

    Where the bullet trains run on existing lines, so are only as fast as the special expresses they replaced, the slow trains run three to five times a day.

    but, if it’s not economical, it won’t last, and it will cost you unnecessarily as it diverts money to uneconomic goals

    Indeed, the airport-to-city maglev in China has a strong scent of white elephant about it.

    The new bullet-train services to Hokkaido (particularly) and to the sth.-west are not well-patronised most of the time, the old combinations of all-stops, commuter express in some places at some times, and special express did a better job.

    Concorde, wish I’d ridden it once, closest I’d ever be to space, an economy window seat would have been pricey, but just affordable, a small life regret. At least I saw a real Tu 144 landing, once. Think I never saw a Concorde, except in the sky once, maybe that was also a Tupolev.

    • Replies: @tbraton
  144. @Svigor

    As a thirty-something American white-gentile I have come to understand the complete and utter contempt the Japanese have for these high-IQ human locusts.

  145. biz says:

    Unz’s proposed method of using surnames to count Jews performing highly on the SAT, NMSQT, etc. isn’t reliable. For example, as I understand it, he didn’t check this method by using it to estimate the number of Jews in the Harvard (or was it MIT?) entering class, a number which he actually had and could verify his count against.

    As far as I can tell, we still have no way to actually know what the fraction of Jews performing highly on these tests is.

  146. WhatEvvs [AKA "Mipchunk"] says:
    @Priss Factor

    Well, you certainly have a lot to say about the Jews, so have you done any reading? Where is it written that the children of Jewish fathers/Chinese mothers will grow up Jewish?

    The majority of children of Jewish fathers/non-Jewish mothers do not grow up Jewish, quite apart from the fact that they are not considered Jewish by Judaic law. They just drift away. I see this everywhere, in my own family and others.

    The Jewish future is in the ultra-Orthodox.

    • Replies: @dahoit
  147. WhatEvvs [AKA "Mipchunk"] says:
    @Jacques Sheete

    Where would a comment on Unz be without someone like you? Fred was referring specifically to Ashkenazi Jews. As for Sand’s book, he isn’t saying anything new. All peoples are invented to a degree. So the Jews invented a usable mythology, which magically changes as circumstances change. There’s nothing special about that.

    • Replies: @Jacques Sheete
  148. WhatEvvs [AKA "Mipchunk"] says:
    @AaronB

    “But as Steve Sailer says in another context, you’re not supposed to notice any of this stuff, because it threatens the attempt to erect a clear, simple, deterministic, picture of human nature scientists have been trying to establish for some time now.”

    Yeah, but the HBD guys notice what they want to notice and don’t notice anything they don’t. So they are no different from the crazy leftists in that regard. Their shtick is Genes Uber Alles, and it doesn’t matter if you grow up in a shambles, what matters is that the tape inside your Jewish brain unfolded as Darwin decreed. I drop by Unz every six months or so to see what the crazies here say, and it the same (((old story))), never changes.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  149. WhatEvvs [AKA "Mipchunk"] says:

    I usually disagree with Fred Reed 90%, but in this case, all I can say is, “great stuff.” What Fred is saying is that the decline of the American Jewish community is a bellwether of the decline of the great civilization that they emigrated to three generations ago. And, unusually for an Unz article, he isn’t blaming Jews, for which he deserves a special pat on the back.

    If you want to see how degraded the US is, take a look at a formerly high performing group. American Jews may not be in prisons or taking drugs, but they react in their own way. By giving up hard work, and not forming stable families.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  150. Seraphim says:

    Some hard data that would bring some perspective:

    “In China, out of seven million students graduating from college annually 1.2 million have science degrees, or in engineering-related subjects. China’s colleges and universities constantly churn out an army of hyper-connected, fluent English speakers. As Edward Tse observes in China’s Disruptors, by 2020 they will be part of a total graduate workforce of an astonishing 200 million — more than the entire US workforce.” More than all the Jews in the world!
    @The Pearl River Delta showcases the Chinese Dream,By Pepe Escobar

  151. Unzerker says:
    @Anonymous

    While there Chinese visited the New World

    There’s not a shred of evidence the Chinese ever discovered America on their own.

    The Chinese didn’t even colonize Taiwan, before the Dutch conquered it. The natives of Taiwan were still living in the stone age at the time.

    We are talking about a bunch of navel gazing people who didn’t even care about the big fertile island just off their coast. Of course they didn’t discover any foreign lands, let alone colonize it.

  152. This will only get serious when Asians begin to encroach on “Hollywood”. Until then, Jews will just continue with their slow but steady retreat from the less important fields such as medicine and finance.

  153. Corvinus says:
    @The Anti-Gnostic

    “The Orthodox I know are like the Amish. All their energies are devoted to family and maintenance of their traditions. You are not going to get any symphonies or bullet trains out of them.”

    Speaking in absolutes is a sign of a fool.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  154. @Priss Factor

    You never heard of that other guy,John Holmes?

  155. BTW you do not see many Asian chicks that look like the one in the pic at the top.She is a sweetie,most asian broads spittin’ venom and looking for that do re mi.

  156. kiismerh says:
    @Anonymous

    “Non Jewish whites are largely invisible now when it comes to cultural or Scientific impact. Common whites have neither the brain power nor the cultural traits to contribute anything of value.”

    I disagree. They simply cant compete with the power of Jewish networking. When I go the US and listen to PR in my rented car it seems that everybody on air comes with a Jewish name. It does not matter if they are stupid or have a speech impediment they were the ones to be selected. Obviously whoever selects is also a Jew and they do come with chutzpah.

    Same thing on CNN. You have to be a Jew or colored to be hired. Gay is OK too. Even if they need an expert to be interviewed he is usually a Jew.

    I believe the same happens when granting tenures. Jews vote for other Jews non Jews vote according to merit. Sooner or later everybody on board will be Jewish and than you could really say that: “Common whites have neither the brain power nor the cultural traits to contribute anything of value.”

    However it is like with affirmative action. If you see a Jew in position you should automatically question his qualifications.

  157. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Priss Factor

    Lol.

    You sound like a bitter white guy. If you wanna site DQ sorry to say that the brothers got everyone beat there as millions of white women can attest to.

    You can try to claim whites have more game than asians, but everyone else has more game than white people do. This is why white women mix with other races so frequently.

    And unlike China, America has that diversity that I’m sure makes you so happy.

    Glad to see you quit on the IQ angle by the way.

    • Replies: @Priss Factor
  158. Hrw-500 says:

    A bit off-topic but it might be related about some stuff then Kyle Bass mentionned about China.
    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-07-01/kyle-bass-shares-stunning-thing-central-banker-once-told-him

    And I thought then it could be a bit interesting to compare Fred Reed’s article with Peter Lee’s article about China.
    http://www.unz.com/plee/what-if-it-wasnt-one-china-vs-two-chinas-what-if-there-was-no-china/

  159. Rdm says:
    @Priss Factor

    haha…

    Every time I read the Dominique comments, I laughed.

    Added with Joe Webb’s, you have the Shakespeare play.

    We need these two old WASP guys here in comments, to have the comments flowing.

  160. Rdm says:
    @Gene Su

    This is a knee jerk comment to feel good.

    1. Asians tend to be far more stingy. They don’t go for flashy cars and houses as whites do (although clothes are another matter).

    Geeezuus. Freaking lies.

    2. Asians tend not to balk from manual or undesirable labor. They don’t see it as a sign of low rank. Thomas Sowell has written once that the laziness of black and white southerners has to do with the view that having to do manual labor was a disgrace. I have dealt with so many Asian VPs handling their own products and sweeping their floors.

    You mean Sewage VP?

    No VP will sweep their floors, you idiots. Or maybe self-employed Asian restaurant owner?

    3. Asian parents force their kids to study. My mom won’t let me out of the house until I spelled every word on the flash cards correctly.

    That’s your mom. I self study and my parents didn’t force me to study and yet, I stood among the Top 1%.

  161. Seraphim says:
    @Rehmat

    @Muslim natives in China

    You mean natives of China who became Muslims.

    • Replies: @Rehmat
  162. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @AaronB

    IQ tests themselves do not determine someone’s future or worth as a person, but the IQ tests themselves are accurate. They are a measure is someone’s cognitive ability. That’s it.

    To say that Mexicans merely don’t try hard on the IQ test so add 20 IQ points or that Jews are out partying the night before so add another 40 points to Jewish IQ is rediculous.

    Meanwhile subtract 20 IQ points from the Chinese since all they do is study for IQ tests day and night.

    These arguments are standard arguments when white people are confronted with higher Chinese IQ and feel threatened.

    First they deny the validity of the IQ test, then when that doesn’t work they say IQ doesn’t matter. Why? Reasons lol.

    Meanwhile white people sure do like using IQ to show superiority against blacks and hispanics. I guess then IQ tests are accurate and relevant lol.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  163. Che Guava says:
    @Jacques Sheete

    As I have mentioned before, the state broadcaster (NHK) demonstrates that bagels have a southtwest Asian origin in their documentary series The Silk Road. I do not recall if it was Tajikistan or Uzbekistan, but the bakers were clearly making ur-bagels

    Judaism is a proselytizing religion.

    That is a lie, and you know it, Reform Judaism to an extent, Cabbalists to an extent (say, to the extent that they can recruit Madonna or, at times, garden-variety occultists).

    Otherwise, men who marry shiksas (yes, I know it is a nasty word, also know enough to know that it is a commom term of abuse) are not Jewish unless the shiksa or man are suffiently important or wealthy.

    Otherwise, the definition is purely maternal line.

    This applies to the international legal and illegal work network, too.

    I was pleased to see the Japanese govt. crack down on it over ten years ago.

    They did many really bad things, just from what I saw and what they said and complained about.

  164. George says:

    The article uses the word Jew in a way that describes the word when Reed was growing up. Basically secular assimilated Ashkenazi central European more often than not Germanic Jews. These days you now have many dissimilar groups like Persian Jews, Issac Larian the Bratz dolls guy is America’s #1 Jew in my book. He’s not Bobby Fischer or Feynman but what are you going to do. Actually an Iranian born American woman won the fields prize, she has not commented on anything, but if I had to guess she is of Jewish heritage due to her name, Miriam, and her being in California. I suspect in the future the largest Jewish subgroup will be orthodox. Orthodox groups are not the same, and each Jew is an individual, but I think you will find they are quite different from secular Ashkenazi central European more often than not Germanic Jews.

    True Torah Jews (against Zionism): http://www.truetorahjews.org/
    True Torah Jews never forget, especially the way Zionists insulted them over the years. The Satmar and Neturei Karta cannot be considered a cult anymore because they are too numerous. True Torah Jews is a political organization, not a Jewish sect.

    As a note Bobby Fischer and Feynman not to mention others like Herb Alpert, Philip Roth, and Gary Marshall plus a bunch of others were distinctly secular and assimilated into what was at the time America’s still functional working class.

    and oh yeah, why when they have Jewish talking heads on the tv blabbing about Iran, why no Iranian Jews? We got plenty of Iranian Jews. Smart Iranian Jews. They might have more Iranians, but we have better Iranians…..

    • Replies: @5371
  165. dahoit says:
    @Ron Unz

    Stop the nonsense people.Asians are smart hard working citizens,who add greatly to our nation.
    Has anyone seen the pictures that were in the Graun a few months ago on the transformation of the Pearl River Delta?
    Unbelievable.
    And we get shite.
    The only maglev we ever had was taken out of Disney World years ago.
    And no they don’t do current shitey pop music.

  166. dahoit says:
    @WhatEvvs

    Yep,Chinese mothers preclude Israeli citizenship.Unless the right rabbi concerts them.

  167. biz says:
    @Jacques Sheete

    Judaism is a proselytizing religion.

    It is difficult to get more incorrect than that.

    The rest of the comment attempts to, by flogging Shlomo Sand’s bit of ahistorical gibberish. But still, getting the one defining characteristic of Judaism 180 degrees wrong – wow.

    • Replies: @dahoit
    , @5371
  168. dahoit says:
    @Chris Mallory

    Yes,strange comment.What else do they have down south to do but manual labor?It’s not a hotbed of wall street,banksters or lawyerdom pencil pushing.

  169. dahoit says:
    @Anonymous

    The best baseball pitcher I ever saw,for 6? years,was Sandy Koufax.And I say that as a Yankee fan.He killed us in 63.
    Yes they can play sports,just not a lot of them historically.But with the rising salaries,many Jews do play sports today,its lucrative,more so then doctoring or lawyering in most cases.

  170. dahoit says:
    @biz

    No it is not,and might be the most xenophobic religion in existence.
    If saying BS makes you feel better,go right ahead and spew.

    • Replies: @biz
  171. dahoit says:
    @Hbd investor

    Chinese lack of morals?Please elucidate the rest of us on that claim.
    Our jails are filled with them right?Serial liars all,huh?sheesh.
    Mao was the one who started the one child policy,didn’t he?And I’m sure he had the smarts to know nobody wins a nuclear war.
    Mao was the giant of Chinese history who rescued his nation from imperialism.
    Wo his influence,they’d still be in the boxer rebellion under mandarins fighting invasion.

  172. Rdm says:
    @Priss Factor

    You’re comparing apples and oranges.

    Black dominates sport. But they don’t know shit about strategy and game tactics. If you bet on King James, Kobe, etc etc shooting 2 points, 3 points all day long, you’d win for sure.

    Kobe can hit 85 points in a single game alone, nothing short of MVP qualities. But just group any Blacks into a team, and let them run on their own, you’d get a disaster.

    If you ask a Black linemen to run a mile, he will run like an Usain Bolt.

    Any strategy, long term game plan, Blacks miserably fail it.

    Blacks don’t create the Basketball game, Blacks don’t come up with football tactics. They use their body. That’s it.

    On the other hand, East Asians create their own games and master them. East Asian create their own version of games.

    Look at this music.

    Would be highly valued in East Asia and emotionally cathartic to ears. But the value is just a paltry $0.02 cent.

    This? Uncle Sam allowance to Black community make it millions worth, and all the gibberish.

  173. tbraton says:
    @Che Guava

    Che guava, you obviously know much more than I about high-speed trains, but it seems you share my skepticism about the benefits of those technological marvels. BTW, in contrast to the SST, I would point out that the airliners made the switch from old dependable prop planes to jets in the late 50’s-early 60’s not simply because of the time savings but because the jets were more fuel efficient than the props, as I understand it. Thus, it all boils down to economics.

    • Replies: @Che Guava
  174. 5371 says:
    @biz

    If Judaism was never a proselytizing religion, moron, then all Jews everywhere would be very similar in genotype.

    • Replies: @biz
    , @Karl
    , @tbraton
  175. Priss Factor [AKA "Dominique Francon Society"] says: • Website
    @Anonymous

    So, white boys lose to black boys.

    But yellow boys lose to white boys, black boys, brown boys, Jewish boys, etc.

    In Asia, it’s mostly all Asian, so Asian girls got no choice. But look at Japan. Even when all are Asian, so many Japper girls don’t want Japper guys who just give up on sex.
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/20/young-people-japan-stopped-having-sex

    In the West, Asian girls are given choice and far more of them than white girls go with other race.

    So, give it up.

    You read but no breed… unless you go back home and bring girl from there… but then your daughter in the US no wanna marry a yelloid dork loser like you. Her womb go Amy Chua. Strictly for non-Asian men.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  176. @Priss Factor

    Dominique Francon Society’s all horizons take sounds about right. I am an 82yo jew raised in brooklyn, and i continue to measure my self-worth. As Norman says somewhere, the questions he asks himself of someone are (1) is he stronger than I am? (2) smarter? (3) less queer? As anecdote is data, I feel justified to share my long experience. I have had some intercourse with the smarter than me crowd. I can name their names. Unfortunately, I have only known one Chinese well, an ex-neighbor, born in Malasia, educated in the US and currently employed by Apple. I conversed with him recently (he still owns the apartment) and he was in a glum mood, unhappy at work (his 3 children are growing up “without him” – his words). Aside his cultural limitations – which are huge and startling, he is smart enough to cope in the world, but he has intimations of not having full access to what is known or can be known. He is dissatisfied.

    As for the smarter than me crowd, many were jews, many were not; my sense is that Leroi Jones (later Amiri Baraka) was smarter than me. Having the top smarts is a gift of birth – assuming the gift is nurtured as the child grows up. Apparently Pres. Obama’s father was gifted in the same way, although he was unable to realize his potential. The racial/cultural distribution of the gift is an interesting puzzle, but ultimately trivial. Whatever their background, the smartest like everybody else must live their lives one at a time.

    i suspect that the smartest jewish kids now feel free in the world in a way that jews of past generations and their discomfort about who and where they were in the world. This was the pressure-cooker effect on achievement. So the Asian tiger mother style of child nurture has obvious salience. We should be comforted by the reflection that the smartest are driven by the desire for the honor of men and the love of fair women in a globalized world where all the ethnicities/cultures of the smartest are subsumed in the culture of post-Renaissance Europe. So what’s not to like?

  177. dahoit says:
    @Discard

    Maybe its the collapse of Jewish enlightenment caused by the Zionist project.
    They are a bunch of nazis to illustrate that.
    Scientist never made much dough anyway,and the collapse of their humanity is cojoined with the lust for money,a most unenlightened enterprise to enlightened people.

  178. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Corvinus

    Except that what he said is entirely true.

    Sure, some of these Orthodox will still invent things or get their own sitcom, but the majority will be welfare bums just like black people.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  179. wow, I am very impressed by some of the KKK level comments. and I love this website to death for allowing them 🙂

    GO fred!!!

  180. dahoit says:
    @Anonymous

    Same with homosexuals,except lesbians go to the sperm bank of the male homosexuals,and procreate more homosexuals.Oy!My daddy was a test tube,and my mommy a navel gazer.
    What could be more illuminating on the banality of evil,fulfillment at child’s expense.

  181. dahoit says:
    @pink_point

    Anglo Saxon psychologists and psychiatrists?
    Other than a few women feminists,I’ve never seen one AS psych.
    Its a Jewish field,with a few Indians now entering it.
    And they have a full crop of lunatics to work with here,all supporting the hell bitch.

  182. dahoit says:
    @Svigor

    Remember the old joke about how many poles(12?) to screw in a light bulb?
    Well they never mention there were 24 Jews giving them conflicted info on how to do it.
    Jews are the worst manual workers in this world,manual labor is undesirable,and slaves do all their dirty work.
    Of course there are a few exceptions.

    • Replies: @Priss Factor
  183. dcite says:
    @Anonymous

    Mostly money, but that’s not enough reason nowadays, to explain it. Many are refugees from various kinds of cultural oppression — including some academics. But this “oppression” is not peculiar to Asians.
    The “culture” here is not all that different from developed parts of Asia at this point in history — and most come from developed areas. They are not peasants or street sweepers. Even in their own countries they are already more like us culturally, than we are like them. And yeah, I know that the similarity is sometimes surface and not representative of remote areas, but in general it is true comparatively, and it is what they feared for several centuries.
    T.F. Mou, Chinese horror movie director, made a film about Unit 731, “Men Behind the Sun,” the infamous Japanese concentration camp in northern China from which perhaps half a dozen out of thousands of hapless Chinese, emerged alive. In casting, he chose rural Koreans to play the Chinese because the faces, body language, general mein and manner, were simply too changed, he claimed, from the way Chinese would have looked and acted in the 1940s. This change didn’t just come from the marrow of their own bones. It came from elsewhere.

    Again: Asians can become generic Americans, Americans cannot become Chinese or Japanese. This is a choice. I do like a lot of Asian Americans — often good American citizens. I don’t see China crumbling. It’ll just go on like all countries do. I wish it well so that more its citizens stay where they are (I wish the same for every country, btw), but I’d like to see material production return here. However, economic primacy in any given area, goes in cycles, and they probably have peaked already.

  184. dahoit says:
    @avraham

    They especially loved the part about the drowning goyim.(let him drown)

  185. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Priss Factor

    Nope, only in the vapid West where culture does not matter will you see this happen. And white people will be hurt by this more than anyone else.

    America is a huge welfare state that is declining, so it is more likely that black guys and white guys who study game all day will not breed everyone else out of existence.

    If game and cock size was the only thing that mattered than why isn’t the whole world black?

    Japan is the most Westernized country is Asia, but Japan is not foolish enough to import hordes of foreigners like America has. So the impact will be minimal.

    You bring up Amy Chua like it means something. The entire Kardashian family went dark, so hope you lock up your daughter or else she will pass on the dorky white boy who can’t dance in favor of eggplant.

    • Replies: @Priss Factor
  186. All that spiel and Fred still missed it. An obvious point, to which he appears to be completely obllivious, is simple: DEMOGRAPHICS. In short, Jews today, of this generation and onward, are simply not having large extended families while Asians are.

    If the typical Jewish family is only averaging about 1.4 children and the typical Chinese family is averaging 3-4 kids, over time, guess what? There will be fewer Jews, both in total numbers and as a percentage relative to the population which in turn will start to decrease their overall representation in various fields. In other words, having fewer and fewer children means you’ll start to see fewer Jews represented in the fields that they’re always tended to dominate while the Asians’ percentage continues to grow.

    Ironically, the one segment of Jewish groups that are growing, (averaging 2-3 kids above replacement) is the Orthodox, often just off the boat from Russia or even from Israel, the Hasidic Jews. Unfortunately, they don’t tend to be very represented among the top 1% in IQ, smarts, or income and often times will go on welfare. But their numbers are definitely growing, especially when compared to all other groups and sub set groups of Jews.

    Look it up, Fred. Demographics. It’s real and today’s Jews just simply aren’t having tons of offspring. Obviously, a group’s lack of total numbers will have a direct effect on their future dominance in various fields.

    Very surprised that Fred missed it. It’s really not that complicated. Having fewer babies = less dominance in various fields in the future.

    • Replies: @5371
  187. @martin_2

    …I cannot think of one living Chinese mathematician or physicist of such renown as Roger Penrose, Stephen Hawking, Andrew Miles, John Conway, Alan Baker, Ben Green; except for Terence Tao. There must be something genetic going on.

    Elite English education, within the lifetimes of the men listed, was the best in the world. It was highly selective at an early age – not only the great “public” schools, but perhaps even more so, the grammar schools, which offered bright middle-class boys a similar quality of education. Those having the interest and ability could go on to Oxford or Cambridge, which follow the tutorial method, in which students receive individual instruction instead of just sitting through lectures with dozens or hundreds of others.

    While this (like other educational systems) produced many graduates of no great distinction, it was uniquely capable of identifying and cultivating the necessarily small number of its students who possessed first-rate intellects.

    An example of one who was not a mathematician was Enoch Powell, who famously went into an examination in Greek prose scheduled to last three hours, which set the task of translating a passage into Ancient Greek. He finished in an hour and a half, having produced two translations, one in the style of Thucydides and one in that of Plato. For this he won a rare double-starred first, and went on to become a professor of classics by the age of 25. When World War II broke out, he volunteered for service as a common soldier, and by the war’s end had risen to the rank of brigadier. After the war he went into politics, and was stopped short of becoming prime minister only by his “Rivers of Blood” speech (which alluded to a passage in Virgil), then derided as “racist” but now appearing prophetic.

    American higher education, and higher education in most of the rest of the world, just doesn’t cultivate such talents. Unfortunately, it is probable that neither does England’s, any more.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  188. Priss Factor [AKA "Dominique Francon Society"] says: • Website
    @Anonymous

    “If game and cock size was the only thing that mattered than why isn’t the whole world black?”

    Because prior to globalism, each nation kept up its borders and had its own culture.

    But now we have huge migrations of people.

    And all nations worship Rap and image of Negro stud.

    Black Africa has 60 kids per women and all those black men are moving to Europe to blacken the race. Western media even promote that stuff and attack anyone who say ‘white must remain white’.
    http://www.amren.com/features/2016/07/the-colonization-of-europe/

    And look how fast Asia is changing. Younger Japanese and Korons love Diversity. 80% are ‘progressive’. They just follow west. Japan had as miss japan some woman whose father is black.
    Korea gets an African to run in Olympics as ‘Korean’ runner. For younger gen, ‘racism’ and ‘homogeneity’ are worst words.

    Yelloids have no culture except to imitate the West.

    Look at massive homo parades in japan, Korea, Vietnam.

    Hong Kong and Taiwan are ruled by globalists calling for diversity and homo stuff.

    Culture of young people in Asia is rap and homo stuff.

    Asians follow. since whites have ‘white guilt’ about blacks, jews, and homos, Asians feel they must adopt ‘white guilt’ on those matters because they think white way = development = progress. The human is associative. Since white nations are most advanced, yelloids think white way is correct on everything.

    China may be the ONLY asian nation that can resist this because it has national sovereignty.

    “The entire Kardashian family went dark, so hope you lock up your daughter or else she will pass on the dorky white boy who can’t dance in favor of eggplant.”

    Kartrash is the #1 celebrity popular among white girls.
    So you see, white race is going black.
    Since yelloids imitate whites, they too go black or go-white-going-black.

    Yelloids have tons of plastic surgery to look white. But since white thing is now to favor mulattoization and since rap is the global music, yelloids will go the same way.

    And the thing is parents have no control over the kids. No can lock them up. Global freedom means girls all go groid.

    • Replies: @anonymous
    , @Anonymous
  189. neutral says:

    Jews still run Hollywood (and the all the other mass entertainment) and finance, until I see evidence that the Chinese are taking these over, then this article is missing some key points on where true power sits. The Chinese along with other asians like Indians might be good worker bees in STEM, but being good at those does not mean very much these days.

    • Replies: @Priss Factor
  190. 5371 says:
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    Chinese families are no bigger on average than those of secular Jews.

  191. biz says:
    @dahoit

    It is clear that you don’t know what proselytizing means. Here’s a clue: It should have some amount of inverse correlation with how xenophobic a religion is.

    I know its an SAT-type word and that you don’t encounter many of those in Pakistan, but google is your friend and all.

  192. Ah, but what about the political sphere. I notice that Foreign Affairs and its sponsor the CFR are now obsessed with Israeli/middle-east concerns, and most of their staffers appear to be Jewish. The Establishment wasps are not only in decline, but seem to have been dispossessed.

    “Corinth, oh Dorian Corinth, where is thy beauty now?”

    Should we or not lament?

  193. 5371 says:
    @George

    [if I had to guess she is of Jewish heritage due to her name, Miriam, and her being in California]

    top kek

  194. biz says:
    @5371

    1) Jews everywhere are have similarities in genotype to a certain extent.*

    2) Proselytizing does not mean the same thing as occasionally accepting coverts

    * NB I am not interested in rehashing with you how Y-chromosomes imply much more about a population’s relative ancestry fraction than any particular individual’s. You either understand it or you don’t.

    • Replies: @5371
  195. @Rdm

    Navajo-Ute musician R. Carlos Naka

    Chinese music will become culture-cided/ Americanized just as African rhythms

    became Hollywoodized.

    re Jews not proselytizers? Whaddya call Hollywood. Mormons go door-to-door in multiple countries. Jews are more efficient, they proselytize their view of the world digitally.

    Netanyahu told Congress it should “beam Hollywood programs into Iran, let young Iranians see the clothes and cars & swimming pools — ‘that’s subversive.’ ”
    That’s culturecide.

  196. Priss Factor [AKA "Dominique Francon Society"] says: • Website
    @dahoit

    “Jews are the worst manual workers in this world,manual labor is undesirable,and slaves do all their dirty work.”

    True

  197. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Priss Factor

    (((insert embarrassment emoticon)))

    what do you mean by “game” ?

  198. Rehmat says:
    @Seraphim

    Do you mean any Native who convert to Islam loses his/her Native status?

    How come when Lord Goldsmith’s daughter converted to Islam and married Pakistan’s Cricket Team Captain Imran Khan, she didn’t lose her British Native status? Her brother Zak Goldsmith was recently defeated by Sadiq Khan to become Mayor of London.

    https://rehmat1.com/2016/04/20/london-mayoral-election-and-uks-muslim-problem/

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  199. Priss Factor [AKA "Dominique Francon Society"] says: • Website

    ——-what do you mean by “game” ?———

  200. AaronB says:
    @Anonymous

    I agree that whites are wrong in using IQ tests to feel superior to many other groups. I made that clear.

    I don’t know what you were talking about, but I was talking about the ways IQ fails to be accurate.

    If you wish to ignore the mounting incongruities, you have a perfect right to do so, and indeed you will have the establishment at your back, for a time at least. Good luck to you.

    IQ tests obviously measure motivation and priorities related to an industrial economy as well as intelligence, and to what extent these factors can be separated no one knows, because we preferred to ignore these messy details.

    Again, I completely respect your rght to ignore these facts if you wish to.

  201. Talha says:
    @AaronB

    Dear AaronB,

    Great points sir! This one I cannot agree with more:

    These non wrstern people are not as stupid as we think, far from it, and the reason they are not more advanced is because they simply have different priorities.

    This is very important; technological advancement is not neutral and its effects on a culture are not always benign. A tribal culture that values close-knit family, filial piety, normative sexual mores, respect for the wisdom and guidance of elders may not want to trade that in for an uncompromising individualism, no matter what the material benefits. There is also religion which is important to many people.

    Neil Postman wrote a beautiful work on this, which I would highly recommend to everyone:

    Peace.

  202. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Which is to say that even if all the whites were Jews and no HAGVACAS (House and Garden Variety (non-Jewish) Caucasians

    really Fred?

    Fred speaks Spanish so that was not an accident

    one look at that acronym and there’s no doubt what Fred is implying

    (which is kind of funny, and apropos really ; )

    .

    .

    Rurikk is Rurik from his girlfriend’s house

    • Replies: @Priss Factor
  203. Smitty says:

    How is the racial breakdown in patent revenues?

  204. AaronB says:
    @WhatEvvs

    Great point.

    America today provides conditions that leads to the degregation of every group that comes in to join the national scramble for money and stuff.

    America is the great vulgarization machine of our times. I personally see this with Asians and would caution them to beware. Second generation Asians are fatter, stupider, louder, sloppier, angrier, unhappier.

    For how much longer Asians can buck the universal American trend towards degregation remains to be seen, but my money is on not very long.

    • Replies: @Karl
    , @WhatEvvs
  205. 5371 says:
    @biz

    [to a certain extent]

    I would quote “Up to a point, Lord Copper” but you are probably not very familiar with English literature.

  206. AaronB says:
    @WhatEvvs

    I know, mipchunk, it’s really quite absurd, but eventually the model will crack as the incongruities become more impossible to ignore.

    Judith Harris actually wrote an absurd book on how family life has no effect on adult outcomes, which are solely controlled by genes plus some unknown factor, which she thought might be peer groups. But the evident trend was to deny that family can have serious impact as opposed to genes, against the wisdom of the ages. Of course, the book was widely hailed.

    In a sense Western culture can be seen as the application of the idea of reductive materialism in ever wider fields, till we reach the point of absurdity and we return to saner ways of thinking. We are far from that point yet, sadly.

    • Replies: @WhatEvvs
  207. Talha says:
    @AaronB

    Also…

    Yet everything is a sacrifice, and how much have we lost in the West by becoming mere consumers in an an industrial economy?

    Self control? Thoreau would certainly say so. IQ tests will never be able to gauge the spiritual aspect (or loss thereof) of the human condition.
    “As he burned he never moved a muscle, never uttered a sound, his outward composure in sharp contrast to the wailing people around him.”
    “The self-immolation was later regarded as a turning point in the Buddhist crisis and a critical point in the collapse of the Diem regime.”
    http://rarehistoricalphotos.com/the-burning-monk-1963/

    If a culture can teach and value that kind of mastery-of-self, which may be inversely related to one’s materialism – it is not silly to imagine that they may consider its preservation worth more than all the iPhones in the world.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  208. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Priss Factor

    Sounds like you spend too much time on the Internet and not enough time in the real world.

    Globalization, like you have seen in the West, is a distinctly Anglo and Jewish thing. No one else does it. The goal is to import a bunch of goyim or cattle to serve as the lower class to rule over.

    Again, no one else does this except for Anglo and Jewish socities. Asia can import workers, but they will not be Africans. They will be other asians like Phillipinos and not in huge numbers.

    While black culture has had an influence in Asia, it is no where near as impact full as it is with white people where you have people like Rachel Dozeal pretending to be chocolate when she us snow white.

    Fred mentioned this in the article. White people grasping at straws on why China will implode. Pure Schadenfreude.

    • Replies: @Priss Factor
  209. KenH says:

    Freddy unwittingly demolishes the theory of white privilege. For if we’re discussing how the Chinese are displacing Jews in Ivy league attendance and other academic pursuits and even becoming predominant then it proves that non-white racial groups have been and can be successful even when if comes at the expense of America’s founding white racial stock and its descendents. Not that Fred is a proponent of such idiotic theories.

    Somehow I don’t think the Chinese would allow millions of non-Chinese into their nations then allow them to displace the natives in higher education. They aren’t and they never will because the Chinese are at least racially sane and impervious to doctrines of equality, universalism and other tenets of cultural Marxism and in some regards, Christianity.

  210. Priss Factor [AKA "Dominique Francon Society"] says: • Website
    @Anonymous

    “HAGVACAS (House and Garden Variety (non-Jewish) Caucasians”

    They should be called Tattooines.

    I went on a recent trip to Missouri and saw so much tattoos on ‘white trash’, it was sickening.

  211. CanSpeccy says: • Website

    Fred tells us that Jews used to provide the brains that powered America’s world-leading technology, but now Jews aren’t performing like they used to while the Chinese in China, millions and millions of them, just about as bright as Jews, are making China a world leader in technology, including obviously, military technology.

    So, Fred asks, how will America survive in competition with China which has so many more bright people than America?

    This is a good question, for which no one here seems to have the answer, perhaps because there is no answer. Nations and empires rise and, if the past is anything to go by, invariably fall. America’s time as the exceptional nation may be near its end.

    As for what happened to America’s Jews, I would guess that two things happened.

    First, the achievement of great material success. For poor Jews like Richard Feynman, going to Princeton was a step in the right direction. But to many of the next generation, Princeton was the starting point and Wall St. the ultimate objective.

    Second, many Jews have been Americanized. They read the same New York Times and WaPo propaganda as everyone else. They watch the same crap TV and Hollywood movies. The result: dilution of the Jewish culture, which I suggest, had far more to do with past Jewish academic achievement than any special Jewish genes. After all, Jews may be clannish, but Jewish males have, in general, no reluctance to spread their genes among other nations.

    That culture outweighs genes in determining the rise and fall of nations, seems evident from the trajectory of Britain, France, Germany and other Western European countries. There, very small elites transformed the world through innovations in finance, warfare, science and technology. In Britain the elite culture was embedded in a few small institutions, including the public (i.e., private) boarding schools and two tiny, by present-day standards, universities. At Cambridge, Trinity College, with no more than a few dozen scholars, has won more Novel Prizes than the nation of France. Yet the Brits surely have no special genes for IQ. Surveys indicate, on the contrary, that the IQ of the typical Cambridge University don is by no means extraordinary.

    But as with the Jews in America, the bright scions of the Euro elite are now more interested in finance than science or public service. Thus, neither Europe nor America can be great again without a major cultural reconstruction, a development that seems improbably in the extreme.

    • Replies: @Priss Factor
    , @Salger
  212. Priss Factor [AKA "Dominique Francon Society"] says: • Website
    @Anonymous

    “Sounds like you spend too much time on the Internet and not enough time in the real world.
    Globalization, like you have seen in the West, is a distinctly Anglo and Jewish thing. No one else does it. The goal is to import a bunch of goyim or cattle to serve as the lower class to rule over.”

    What?

    First, Asians lost their connection to past and identity.

    Asians are biggest internet and videogame junkies in the world.

    So, they are totally influenced by globalism.

    Asians have no connection to reality. Young ones look down on older people as ‘lame’ since cool is all that counts. It’s all study(western style PC) and all internet & videogame.

    They are following in the footsteps of white people because Asian culture is just imitating whites.

    Asians wanna get away from Asia and live with ‘diversity’. And young ones want to turn their nation more like America cuz they are told ‘diversity’ is cool.

    All Asian teachers and intellectuals are PC clones of the West.

    http://blog.lareviewofbooks.org/the-korea-blog/hell-joseon-korean-literature/

    And just search youtube 2016 ‘pride’ parade for Tokyo and Seoul and Vietnam.

    Asians follow. They are servile and slavish.

    Why are 80% of Asian-Americans so PC and Democratic? They just follow the Narrative.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  213. @AaronB

    ”The Germans were the sleepy, dreamy poets and thinkers of Europe for a long time, with an actual reputation for dishonesty and shoddy workmanship (!) for a while, and poor discipline.”

    This ”germans” (poets, thinkers) always were a minority among germanic people and the cultural enphasis also impact the general impression that we tend to have about ”peoples”.

    So we still can have many potentially dreamy poets and thinkers ….. but …….. they no have visibility ”or” their reproductive niches become very infertile.

    there are a greater number of very good and talented poets, but just few them are recognized as ”geniuses”, probably because they invent new styles and not exactly because they were/are the best of the poets, i mean, those who make the best poetry.

    ”What happened to stable genetic traits that are heritable?”

    Higher creativity is a never stable genetic traits, maybe their potential. Creativity is a hunger-genes, is not the process but the high end – product of the natural eugenic process of a family (extended 😉 or not)

    creativity is like gigantism, potentially dysfunctional, extremist and by now tend to worse the individual ”adaptative” fitness than, for example, conformism-behavioral ”trait”.

    Avg ashkenazi jews, seems, are astutes, i mean, they tend to be able to catch the big picture quickly, understand the context, and try to adapt in a real world while avg white-europeans, namely northwestern europeans, tend to be much less objective than jews. Some to many of the creative geniuses tend to mix both psycho-cognitive approach styles.

    ”You can’t measure ambition, or other intangibles, so we all preferred to sweep these disagreeable little details under the rug in order to make tidy little narrative.”

    Bu you can measure potential of this frequence, like the vocal range of an opera singer as happen with every behavioral trait or potentiallity

    we no have a ”trait” but a entire range of potentiallity and some people have higher range of potentiallity to the certain ”trait” that i like to call ”frequency”.

    ”At this point in time, it’s impose be to know the true differences in intelligence between groups. You tourself, Fred, have noticed that Mexicans ate far more intelligent than clueless Americans think, and I’ve noticed the same thing with all my third world travels.

    What if Mexicans simply don’t try very hard on IQ tests? How would we know this, how would we measure this?”

    Freed is a leftist, he’s addicted to look non-white people specially the people of its wife much better than they are.

    But based on avg perception of the avg american joey about mexicans, he is maybe right, but just in this micro-context.

    There are a middle classes in Mexico, period.

  214. rod1963 says:
    @tbraton

    The Chinese stole the all high speed train tech from France and Japan. They copied it blindly and have had several grisly collisions that resulted in many deaths.

    The same can be applied to their space program where they blatantly ripped off NASA.

    Nothing there to brag about.

    High tech and manufacturing – again ripping off other nations IP or even forcing them to build their factories in China and train Chinese workers and engineers in how it’s all done.

    The Chines got a massive jump start because of the West who wanted their markets.

    Smart? That’s debatable. Crooked yes. The Great Leap Forward really F-uped China culturally, they lost thousands of years of culture because of the commies and it screwed with them. This is why the rich Chinese send their kids to American colleges. Send them to Beijing U. and they can buy a MD or BS in Engineering for under $4k. Go to a public clinic and you might get one of those “doctors” who can’t read a X-Ray or blood panel work up.

    Why are so many Chinese in American universities – because degrees from those schools are still valued. So Chinese parent are willing to pay $$$ for their kids to attend so the university gives the white kids the boot and give their slot to some Chinese student who is paying 2-3x the amount of tuition because they’re foreigners.

    This isn’t to say they aren’t smart. There is a percentage who are wickedly smart and it’s obvious, but we don’t hear about the ones who aren’t. That includes a lot of those rich Chinese kids who paid for stand ins to take their tests so they could attend some swanky American school and probably will have someone do all the school work for them while in school. Every so often the schools get wind of the scams the Chinese are pulling and send them packing by the gross.

    In regards to materialism, they are very materialistic and follow modern trends quite slavishly. They are certainly different than their parents and much different than their grandparents in that regard.

    • Replies: @Priss Factor
    , @Equalizer
  215. Priss Factor [AKA "Dominique Francon Society"] says: • Website
    @CanSpeccy

    “But as with the Jews in America, the bright scions of the Euro elite are now more interested in finance than science or public service.”

    They are totally into public service. The state has grown bigger with Eurocrats.

    Also, there is tremendous innovation happening now, indeed ‘too much’ and mostly in the West.

    I hate Michio Cuckoo, but this guy is close to what is happening in innovation(mostly in the West), and it is scary.

    I wish innovation shuts down.

    Until recently, innovation was better tools to help humans.
    Now, it is changing the very meaning of what it means to be human.
    It’s Brave New World stuff.

    • Replies: @5371
    , @CanSpeccy
  216. Priss Factor [AKA "Dominique Francon Society"] says: • Website
    @rod1963

    “Smart? That’s debatable. Crooked yes. The Great Leap Forward really F-uped China culturally, they lost thousands of years of culture because of the commies and it screwed with them.”

    Chinese are like 1.3 billion Southern Italians.
    Snakes and jackals.

    People who’ve done business there say Chinese have NO scruples.

    This are prescient movies.

  217. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Priss Factor

    Like I said, you spend too much time on the internet. Just because you read something on the net you think that is how it is in real life. Or more likely, you just look for stories that confirm your own bias.

    The Schadenfreude is strong in you. You seem to be aware that whites are in decline, so your response is that at least Asians are going down with us and hopefully they will have it worse than we do.

    You are exactly the kind of white person Fred was talking about in the article.

  218. Priss Factor [AKA "Dominique Francon Society"] says: • Website

    “Like I said, you spend too much time on the internet. Just because you read something on the net you think that is how it is in real life. Or more likely, you just look for stories that confirm your own bias.”

    You’re living in denial.

    Most people are dummies and they just follow. Most Asians are dummies.

    Young asians have no soul, pride, culture, values.
    They follow globalism and PC.

    You just can’t handle the truth.

    Asians cannot think, so they outsource thinking and ideas to the West.

    West says ‘worship homo and negro’, and yelloids just follow.

    Now, China may be an exception.

    But japan, korea, taiwan, etc are total whore nations of US.

    Young generation is totally globo-homo-negroized.

    You live in denial.

  219. Corvinus says:
    @Anonymous

    “Except that what he said is entirely true.”

    Among those he knows, perhaps.

    “Sure, some of these Orthodox will still invent things or get their own sitcom, but the majority will be welfare bums just like black people.”

    You do realize Orthodox Jews have high IQ’s and well-paying jobs, right? They’re Jews, silly goose.

  220. Corvinus says:
    @Crawfurdmuir

    “American higher education, and higher education in most of the rest of the world, just doesn’t cultivate such talents.”

    You would be decidedly in error.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_James_Leggett

    • Replies: @Crawfurdmuir
  221. 5371 says:
    @Priss Factor

    “Innovation” is mostly hype, bullshit, fraud, and advertising.

    • Replies: @Priss Factor
  222. @Corvinus

    How am I in error? Leggett’s secondary schooling was English (Wimbledon College), and he is an Oxford man, as the Wikipedia page notes – with degrees in Greats (Balliol) and physics (Merton). His talent was recognized and cultivated in England. That his subsequent career has been in the U.S. is no testimony to the excellence of the American secondary school and university system.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  223. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Priss Factor

    “But as with the Jews in America, the bright scions of the Euro elite are now more interested in finance than science or public service.”

    They are totally into public service. The state has grown bigger with Eurocrats.

    Bureaucrats are not the elite, they are the drudges and paid help who do the will of the elite.

  224. Priss Factor [AKA "Dominique Francon Society"] says: • Website
    @5371

    —–“Innovation” is mostly hype, bullshit, fraud, and advertising.——

    I wish that were true.

    But TOO MUCH is changing TOO FAST.

    Look all around.

    It’s maddening.

    I like medical advances, but most of all else is robbing us of humanity, the kind you see in METROPOLITAN.

    We need to run back to the ‘human’ even if fatal and futile… like the last man of LA JETEE.

    • Replies: @5371
  225. 5371 says:
    @Priss Factor

    [But TOO MUCH is changing TOO FAST.

    Look all around.]

    I am looking. I don’t see anything of the kind.

  226. Bobo says:

    It should be noted that traditional Chinese culture was destroyed in China, mostly under Mao. Bertrand Russell spent time in China in the 1920s and noted that a true Chinese gentleman was lazy and sceptical. Russell wrote that his thinking underwent a revolution during his stay there, and he came to feel that work was hugely overrated. He went on to write his pamphlet, “In Praise of Idleness”, based partially on his experiences in China. The things that are important in a given culture change over time.

  227. Svigor says:

    Not really noblesse oblige when it’s cover for something else, serves your interests and hurts your adversaries’, and you don’t do it in your own (Apartheid State) homeland, when none of these things would be the case.

    “We have suffered so now we must help those who are suffering,”

    “Except when the suffering deserve it, as they inevitably do when they’re our problem, and ours alone.”

  228. Svigor says:

    ”…except that even during this so-called “slowdown” China’s per capita GDP has been increasing at roughly 10x America’s rate.

    Much like America’s rate, until saturation was achieved, and the whole country was industrialized, modernized, etc.

    Things tend to slow down at that point. Something about diminishing returns, running out of hicks to upgrade, something like that.

  229. Svigor says:

    SFG: but if your point was that leftism has a singular habit of taking good things (reason, compassion, noblesse oblige, chivalry, whites’ sense of fairness and tolerance, etc.) and twisting them into bad things, then I agree.

  230. Svigor says:

    300k is one quarter of one percent of 1.2 billion.

  231. Svigor says:

    If you want to see how degraded the US is

    Hollywood, Recording Industry, Madison Avenue, Academia, Leftism, Inc? What have they got to do with the degradation of the US, amirite?

  232. Priss Factor [AKA "Dominique Francon Society"] says: • Website

    In American Sports, the great emphasis on winning and PC bias for blackness have led to horrible athletic behavior in colleges.

    Black thugs can get away with so much as long as they deliver the goods.
    Winning is all that counts.

    The idea of student-athlete is gone forever.

    In a way, the rise of raw meritocracy has led to vulgarization.
    The narrow ability is all that counts. So, never mind if college athletes know nothing except playing. That’s all that matters.

    We see something similar among the geeks in tech and finance.
    Unlike jocks, they do have brains and have genuine academic credentials.
    But their interests are very narrow and care only about winning in the money game. They have NO interest in anything else that doesn’t lead to WINNING in the money game.
    Because colleges have become such money farms, these geeks are allowed to be like jocks or gocks.

    There used to be a time when to-be-educated meant gaining a deep and well-rounded sense of history, values, and culture. And there was a time when art and movies were about meaning.
    Early 70s American cinema put personal vision ahead of box office.
    But the sole interest now is the box office. Even artistic directors make superhero movies.

    So, if you can make the dough, you can get away with anything. You could be a total louse but since you can win with money, that’s all that counts.
    Art World is now all about the money. Hype artists win over real artists.
    Sportsmanship is dead. You can act like rapping thug and be worshiped simply cuz you win.

    [MORE]

    SOCIAL NETWORK was about a Gock. Since he had a winning idea, he could violate all rules and ethics and get his way. Since he could win, nothing else mattered. Same with WOLF OF WALL STREET.

    We have Jocks in sports, pimps & whores in music, and Gocks in Wall street and Silly Valley because they got the winning formula in what they sell.

    But, is winning everything? All winnings are narrow endeavors. You can be a great athlete but a lousy person. You can be a super investor but a weasel shitter. You can be a innovative computer entrepreneur but a lowlife scumsucker.

    Because our culture cares so much about winning, the winners are forgiven all their loutish behavior. Or the grossness is not only glossed over but made glossy and sensationalized.
    In a bad way, we see this in the Donald Trump campaign even though, on the positive side, his message seems to be individual winning isn’t enough if it harms the nation as a whole.
    Globalism is about individual winning at the expense of national citizens.

    If you win as jock, you can rape coeds.
    If you win as gock, you can rape entire economies.

    The glamorous class is so besotted with winners that all the failings will be forgiven UNLESS it violates the holy 3: ‘antisemitism’, ‘racism’, and ‘homophobia’.
    Then, like Donald Sterling, you get in trouble. Or like NBA players who say ‘faggot’, you get fined. But you can get away with all else.

    In the past, there were social and moral norms. It wasn’t enough to win. If you disgraced yourself like in QUIZ SHOW, you had to pay a steep price. But we are now shameless as long as you win. Even cheating to win is normalized. Bailouts for Wall Street. Too big to fail. Black thugs in schools slapped on the wrist and treated as ‘victims’. Illegal aliens favored over citizens. From top to bottom, cheating to win has been institutionalized.

    Now, one might say win-ism is more honest than all-around-ism, well-rounded-ism, and gentleman-ism. Indeed, one could argue that such ideals were abused by past elites to protect their privileges and to subtly discriminate.

    After all, the ideal of the ‘student-athlete’ favors inferior whites with brains and brawn over better black athletes with all brawn and no brains.
    Also, the culture of manners and honor favors the well-bred Wasp to the pushy haggly Jew like Alan Dershowitz who may be smarter.
    There is some truth to this. Such ideals can favor mediocrity with manners over superiority without manners. Ali was a boor and had no manners but he was clearly the best heavyweight in the 60s. If boxing had insisted on proper behavior, someone like Ali would have been left out.

    But, pure win-ism produces its own set of problems. People are so admiring of the winner that his bad and ugly sides(apart from his area of success)is either overlooked(as with polanski the child rapist) or even made ‘cool’. Notice how rock stars who acted like shit have been lionized for their bad behavior simply because they won in writing fun songs. Rap culture took this even further.

    Now, some will say our society isn’t only about winning.
    There is PC to hold bad behavior in check.
    But PC plays the game of favorites. It only really cares about Jews, homos, and Negroes.
    PC attacks anyone for the slightest negative view of the holy three, but it will forgive Jews, blacks, and homos for so much bad, nasty, vicious behavior, esp if directed at white gentiles.

    Also, PC is poor way of cultivating the mind and soul because it is all about cliches easily learned by even an idiot.

    To master literature, history, ethics, and philosophy takes many yrs and much free thinking and critical process. This was once the ideal of college.
    In contrast, anyone can master PC in a single day by learning to spout stuff like ‘diversity is our strength’, ‘homo is love’, ‘black jives matter’, ‘check your privilege’, blah blah blah. It takes no real effort. Because rules of PC are so easy to master, the worst lout that won by ruthless and weasly means can make himself as a good person just by waving a homo flag.

    So, any nihilist winner can just mouth off these cliches — in the manner of Rodney King saying ‘can we get along?’ — and be considered a good person.
    PC isn’t about cultivation of true virtue via critical engagement with honesty and truth. It is all about learning to SIGNAL whatever happens to be fashionably ‘progressive’ at the moment, like the 1992 hype about ‘year of the women’.

    Also, true moral cultivation requires self-examination and criticism.
    PC, in contrast, just tells certain groups that they were born ‘wise’ and ‘righteous’ and only have to blame it on whitey. And it tells whitey that they can be moral by being a ‘good whitey’ pointing fingers at ‘bad whitey’. It’s too easy and never calls for self-examination.

    No wonder there is such total lack of true virtue.

  233. Priss Factor [AKA "Dominique Francon Society"] says:

    Like there’s sportsmanship, we need a culture of mindmanship or thinksmanship.

    PS. When will PC demand sportsmanship be called sportspersonship?

    Maybe it doesn’t matter since sportsmanship is dead.

  234. Barzini says:

    For a long time Jews had a built-in advantage because they were urbanized longer than other groups. Cities were the center of culture and education and the place to get ahead. Now, however, advancements in communications and technology have leveled the playing field.

  235. @George

    First of all, our best and brightest aren’t going to military academies. They are going Stanford, CalTech, MIT, Ivy Leagues, Duke, CMU, and a few others. Then they go to Silicon Valley or Wall Street, trending more Silicon Valley than Wall Street.

    Second, signing up for the military when our elites have maintained unhinged foreign policy in the Middle East for many years is not a sign of being best and brightest. Going off to fight in the Middle East is more a sign of either foolishness or a lack of better options.

    Third, read David Halberstam’s Best And Brighest book to see just how much the best and brightest can screw up royally.

  236. Barzini says:

    It was unrealistic to expect Jews to dominate society forever. There have been 3 times in history when Jews were exceptionally powerful: late Roman times, the High Middle Ages, and the 20th century. Most of the time, however, they were not nearly that powerful. The decline of Jewish power means simply that things are returning to normal. Maybe not a bad thing for the Jews themselves. Power corrupts, and the Jews are no exception to this.

  237. Priss Factor [AKA "Dominique Francon Society"] says: • Website
    @Hacienda

    No, the korons are effete.

    This guy says Korean birthrate is down to 1. Yes, 1. So, Koron men are ball-less dorks who don’t even have kids.

    http://koreanbookends.blogspot.com/2016/06/aged-out-korean-style.html

    And the look at all the effete K-pop or gay-pop boys with makeup on their face.

    http://www.kpopstarz.com/articles/90122/20140504/5-pretty-boy-idols-that-didnt-make-it-onto-the-korea-heralds-list.htm

    Trans-racial and transsexual maggots are what Korons are.
    Global homos rule koron, filo, and Japper culture. Just look at J-pop and k-pop.

    Korons exist as whores to put out to America.

    And Korons are cowards. With population twice that of N Korea and economy 40x as big, it still hides behind uncle sam for protection while so many korons flee their country to the US for better material lives.

    Koron dogs will always follow the US.

    Would korons have come up with ‘gay pride’ parades on their own? No, never, but since US insists, Korons obey and follow like yellow doggy.

    • Replies: @Hacienda
    , @anonymous
  238. I did a search on how many times Dominique Francon Society has posted on this thread. 34 times so far. His S/N ratio is low. He doesn’t put a lot of effort into his posts.

    Hey Dominique Francon Society, stop being so lazy. Post less. Bring real data to your argument. You aren’t going to convince anyone with high volume assertions. In fact, you are undermining your points with your posting style.

    Plus, if you took the effort (admittedly hard) to research your assertions you might even find some of them are wrong or completely lacking in easily accessed evidence one way or another.

    • Replies: @mobi
  239. The majority of people doing science these days aren’t getting rich at it. Its becoming a crummy career path for Americans, though for many Asians its still a much better salary in the US than they’d get at home. There may be certain non-Asian groups in the US who are more tightly connected to each other, who are more tied into academia, and have a reputation for going after money, who figured it out and got the word out to their friends earlier than it has trickled down to everyone else.

  240. Seraphim says:
    @Rehmat

    Islam is not a ‘native’ culture anywhere, except Arabia. In China, as everywhere else, it is an invasive culture brought by immigrants.

    • Replies: @Rehmat
  241. @Priss Factor

    There aren’t hundreds of thousands of Africans in all of China, let alone Guangzhou. All of the huge population estimates reported in the Western press are from the usual not-so-useful idiots intent on inflating the numbers to inflate black political power as they do in the West whose ridiculous sources are from black so-called “academics” eyeballing the number of blacks.. The number of actual semi permanent (6 months or longer) Africans in Guangzhou is only 4000. At any given day, the total floating population of Africans in Guangzhou is 16000. Keep in mind that Chinese use the geographic definition of Africa so this also includes Egyptians (the second largest “African” population in China) and other North African Arabs. The city of Guangzhou basically accounts for nearly 1/5 foreign residents in China with Beijing and Shanghai accounting for probably much of the remainder. You will find basically zero Africans in China outside of these major metropolitan areas with the remainders elsewhere primarily white backpackers, tourists, and twenty something English teachers and vagabonds.

    White liberals have the mistaken impression that Chinese immigration policing is as dysfunctional as their own when estimating the number of illegals. Random on the spot passport checks, arrests, and deportations of Africans are all things the Chinese are perfectly capable of and are doing. The biggest enabler of illegal immigration in China and elsewhere, business elites, have zero incentive or willingness to protect African illegals simply because they aren’t willing to employ them and know they can’t get much productive work out of them. Which is why the largest numbers of foreign illegals are Vietnamese who are smuggled into the manufacturing hub in the Pearl River Delta to offset rising local wages.

    • Replies: @Priss Factor
  242. CM says:

    1. Due to high intermarriage rates I’m certain there are more millennials of partial Jewish backgrounds than fully Jewish backgrounds, which will have inevitably decreased the mean IQ of people with Jewish surnames or people identifying as Jews.

    2. Jews have a tendency to peak in adulthood rather than in school, and Asians probably the opposite. Contrary to stereotypes, Jews do not study as hard as Asians do, and many Jewish parents don’t care when their kids get bad grades or decide they don’t want to go to college.

    3. Jews mostly lack the immigrant culture that Asians today possess. There is a distinct difference between Jews whose families have been in the U.S. for a long time and Jews whose families recently immigrated from the former USSR or even Iran.

    4. Immigrant Jewish kids (or U.S.-born children of Jewish immigrants) take formal education very seriously. They are interested in studying more serious degrees at university like engineering, law, medicine, hard sciences, etc. Meanwhile American Jews are interested in acting, becoming models and the soft sciences. I do find an over representation of Russian Jews in intellectually demanding positions, way out of proportion to their numbers within the Jewish community. As an example, just look in Silicon Valley and half the billionaire Jews were born in the USSR.

  243. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Jews got to their control the US by taking advantage of the White man’s “individuality” and vulnerabilities such as altruism and guilt and using it against him. The Jew has used every device to cheat and steal their way into control. The White man still doesn’t know what hit him. The Jews did this not because they are smarter, but because their ability to network and their paranoia about all other peoples. The Whites were too busy stabbing each other in the back and being complacent with no sense of racial unity. It took about a hundred years to take over but they (Jews) did it. The educational standards have been lowered and millions of potentially brilliant Whites have wasted their lives in drugs and watching spectator sports, while not knowing what the capital of the next state is. The Asians come along and while a lot of cheating is going on, they are more disciplined than anyone else and are taking over the sciences because the Whites that are going to universities are wasting their time taking women’s studies and sociology, while being financially crippled for the rest of their lives. The Asians that come over to the US are the smartest and richest in their own countries so already have an enormous financial advantage over most people except the Jews. The Jews are probably getting complacent themselves but I can’t see an America run by Chinese would be any better for the White race. Whites need to get organized, start helping each other and develop their own paranoia about other peoples, get rid of our stupid guilt, our stupid altruism and put ourselves first. We will retake America in a few years, and nobody can stop us.

    • Replies: @Priss Factor
  244. @Rdm

    Lebron’s not a tactical player? At this stage in his career his game is largely focused around driving to the basket and either getting a dunk/layup or kicking it out for a 3 pointer. Such an approach is based around the fact that those are the two most efficient shots in basketball, and he’s been a large part of driving the NBA towards that and away from chucking inefficient long 2’s like Kobe, Melo, etc. He also doesn’t strike me as particularly stupid, as he’s been able to manage his money well and has had enough impulse control to stay out of trouble. Granted I don’t necessarily think he’s a super-genius, but he’s most certainly not an example of an athlete who’s too stupid to adhere to basic game tactics.

    • Replies: @Rdm
  245. Priss Factor [AKA "Dominique Francon Society"] says:
    @Duke of Qin

    “There aren’t hundreds of thousands of Africans in all of China, let alone Guangzhou.”

    I don’t know about that. I think you’re like the ghost in SIXTH SENSE. You are living in denial and see what you want to see.

    Just go to YOUTUBE and type in ‘Chinese women’ and the second most popular suggestion is ‘chinese women black men’.

    I think Chinese women got Chungle Fever.

    Sheeeeeeeeiiiite!!!!

    • Replies: @5371
    , @Duke of Qin
  246. @WhatEvvs

    Fred was referring specifically to Ashkenazi Jews.

    News to me. Where did he write that?

    As for Sand’s book, he isn’t saying anything new.

    I never claimed he did. Even the Roman-Jewish historian Josephus claimed it. Straw man much?

    All peoples are invented to a degree.

    You know that and I know that, but judging by the article and many of the responses, the concept is lost on many. To most, it seems, Jews are a monolith and as you and I know, that ain’t too accurate.

    So, my point is that generalizing about them is probably pretty mindless as is the article. Freddy seems to be inordinately hung up on early 20th century topics. I bet he’s clueless as to the history of IQ tests and the connection between them and eugenics. He seems to think they’re something wondrous and useful when in fact, even Binet and Wechsler emphasized the limitations of the things.

    So the Jews invented a usable mythology, which magically changes as circumstances change. There’s nothing special about that.

    So?

    That has nothing to do about the point I was making. (See above.)

  247. Priss Factor [AKA "Dominique Francon Society"] says:
    @Anonymous

    [Endless lengthy comments lacking any substantive content are strongly discouraged on this website. Modify your commenting behavior or expect most of them to be summarily trashed.]

    • Replies: @Priss Factor
  248. Hacienda says:
    @Priss Factor

    LOL. You abuse the resources available to you on the net.

    As I fear I’m wasting time with a mommy’s basement resident I’m begging off. Thanks for your input.

  249. Priss Factor [AKA "Dominique Francon Society"] says:
    @Priss Factor

    That’s odd cuz I thought my point was saner and more valid than Julius Cezar’s diatribe.

  250. DaveE says:
    @Priss Factor

    Dom, Dom…. “couldn’t get a date for the prom”…… yer killin’ me. Let’s talk about Jews in Egypt…… the last time they did any REAL work.

  251. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Priss Factor

    Malcolm Gladwell wrote about the compulsion of Jewish women to look like they were not Jewish by dying their hair and using makeup.

    Revlon 1932

    Estée Lauder 1930s

    Clairol 1931 Lawrence and Joan Gelb

    Helena Rubinstein 1915

  252. Ron Unz says:

    Well, I lightly glanced over the 30,000 words in this enormously long comment-thread, and think there’s a simple point worth recognizing.

    Over the last few decades, the bulk of the American population has been totally impoverished. There was that big recent MSM story describing how a government study found that roughly half of all American families had less than $400 in savings, and would have to borrow money if that sort of unexpected expense suddenly occurred.

    Meanwhile, during roughly that same period, the bulk of the Chinese population has grown wealthier at probably the fastest rate in the history of the human species.

    There are surely many different factors responsible for this sharp divergence, but I think one of the biggest is that China has been run by patriotic national elites, while America has been run by “extractive” or parasitic elites.

    Basically, the Chinese elites steal maybe 10% of everything off the top for themselves and their friends and relatives, with the rest going to the general population. Meanwhile, the parasitic American elites take maybe 50% of everything for themselves while casting a covetous eye at the remaining 50%. As I’ve said, I discussed this situation quite extensively in my long article from a couple of years ago, and I don’t think the trends have much changed:

    http://www.unz.com/article/chinas-rise-americas-fall/

    • Replies: @PandaAtWar
  253. @Priss Factor

    Ok, I’m ready to move to one of the offworld colonies.

    What? They’re not thete yet? Oh.

  254. pico says:

    the jews used to be smart because they had a unique life and a holy living tradition and learning but now the last ones are americanized and no more smarter than the average, the jews as jews have no more future in america except the ultra orthodox that are going to become more and more as the aimish are.

  255. Karl says:
    @AaronB

    > Second generation Asians are fatter

    if you don’t believe that…. visit Guam

    Bring your Korean phrasebook, by the way. Lottsa package-tour hotties nowadays.

  256. 5371 says:
    @Priss Factor

    Who do you think makes most Youtube searches in English?

  257. […] with the Jews: The Jewish Decline and the rise of China in the US.  I’ve never seen so many comments on Unz, and imagine how many got […]

  258. Equalizer says:

    So many comments that Asians are worthless no-bodies (not creative, no humor) but that whites created 99% of all modern inventions. Note that generally in history, whites are looked down by Middle Eastern people (lie Jews and Arabs) and Asians as barbarians. But finally their time came (in the last 300 years) to show something and they took eastern inventions like gun powder and rampage through the world. They did create some good stuff, but now its the return of the Asians and then the Middle Easterners. The world is fighting back and white people are dying out, due to their bad karma. Whites can reform but they are too rigid (and also arrogant) in mentality to change. Yes, if they continue with this arrogance and rigidity they will die out even faster.

    • Replies: @artichoke
    , @Unzerker
  259. Equalizer says:

    Whites say Japanese cannot innovate and then Japanese products and inventions overwhelm American products. Now those with wounded pride points to China that cannot innovate and can only copy. The same story is already happening. Chinese quality and innovations are coming up fast. Soon whites will have to eat their words again.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  260. Equalizer says:

    Whites also like to say Middle Eastern people (ie Muslims) are “savages”. The implications in the western MSM is that Muslims are savages and Asians are barbarians. However, for thousands of years it was the other way around: whites are the barbarians. So who are the real barbarians????? Simple, study history objectively and it will be clear who is the real barbarian.

  261. Panda just briefly glanced over about 257 comments. Several clear conclusions:

    1. Jews are indeed smarter than Whites, cuz, for instance, that Dominique youtuber is clueless on pretty much just everything. No surprise, such sheeple usually have big mouthes repeating the their master Jewish lines that have been spoon-fed to them – a vivid demonstration of Whites’ “creativity”, how funny! ROFL.

    (but to be fair, that Domonique guy is likely to be a Spanish-speaking “White” with profund self-identity issues. lol. His, or her, use of “Chiners” is a reflection of his, or her, intellectual inferiority complex).

    2. Jewish intellectual elites have average IQ higher than i) average Chinese or North East Asian – it is unfair comparison, but still, and ii) likely Whites intellectual elites – strange though from simple maths POV).

    This is because then entire dicussion contents are within the tight grip on both terminologies used and sources used created and tightly grpped by the Jewish intellectual elites in the frist place.

    Panda sees no one challenging the very basic abcs of any similar discussion: e.g. who are “Asians” ? (Panda used to read some Steve Sailor , no more cuz he is also clueless on basic terminologies). Whenver one uses “Asians” instead of “North Easten Orientals” , he is just clueless sheeple, because terminologies are the most important things of any in-depth discussion or research of any science, not realising the sheer importance of getting the terminology surgically precise and right every each time (e.g. HBD in general) is not question of “being lazy” when wrting, but question of being stupid.

    3. The Jewish intellectual elites KNOW, and tacitly admit however they deny it on the surface (LOL), that Chinese intellectual elites could be superior. It is easy to notice that, really: Chinese (and North-Eestern Oriental) males are the Enermy No.1 of Jewish-controlled White MSM in the West, and probably in the world, due to the automatic natural reaction of Jewish intellectual elites triggered by their self-protection mechanism. Therefore, we have nowsdays in the West MSM where

    A) Blacks males rank at the top of the mating ladder in the most advanced Western countries: “their athelectic power”, “muscles”, “artistic abilities (rap, pop)”, “dick size”( a must-have in group sex and orgies with blondes, ROFL) , “fantastic humour”, “amazing EQ”(wtf is “EQ”? lol) , etc. Look around, the very best crop of the Whites girls (avg IQ 100 or below) have no-chance to escape the fancy black power from >120IQ MSM chief editors.

    “The fittest survival”? Charles Darwin anyone? Panda’s arse! ROFL. The gene pool of the Whites is doomed. The Jewish intellectual elites know that the Black males are the least thing they should concern in their global conquest. They are merely the “low-cost bait” to destroy the gene pool of the Whites.

    B) On the other hand at the opposite side of the scale as the lowest of the Western mating ladder: the North-Eastern Oriental males of course, propanagted by the Western MSM for decades as “dulling robots”, ” have no life”, “no creativity”, “no humour”, “only know how to copy”, “small dick”, “low EQ”, etc… Funny that many White lackies dislike the Jewish globalish elites so much, but that doesn’t stop them from quoting Jewish intellectual elites-controlled spoon-fed MSM (the very ones that brag amazing Black male mating power on the front pages) every time when trying hard to make a point… Man, deep inside, the insecured Jewish intellectual elites and their White lackies are truely worried. LOL

    • Replies: @artichoke
  262. Karl says:
    @5371

    > If Judaism was never a proselytizing religion, moron, then all Jews everywhere would be very similar in genotype.

    Druze religion is not only non-prosletyzing, but there’s no such thing as in-conversion AT ALL.

    Hasn’t stopped their men from marrying whoever they feel like. Go visit the Druze villages in Galilee to see the results. There is SOME small percentage of Ethiopian girls who are VERY hot, so I suppose it will eventually happen. Anyway, Ethiopians can vary all over the place in phenotype. An Ethiopian girl can be pretty darn Cauc looking.

    Druze women are NOT subject to death for marrying out – but it’s extremely rare.

    There’s a decent size Druze poulation in the USA. They exercise a lot of caution for the sake of their relatives who live in Muslim countries – Israel ( a good size Druze population which has even reached the inner circles of the Security Organs) is always written as “The Holy Land”.

    As my IDF drill instructor told me: “it’s all pink on the inside”.

  263. Equalizer says:
    @Priss Factor

    Whites have dominated only the last 300 or 400 years. Generally, for thousands of years they were regarded as mostly barbarians by Middle Eastern people (like the Jews and Arabs) and Asian. You are very selective in your history and very biased.

    • Replies: @Hacienda
    , @makran
  264. Karl says:
    @Anonymous

    > Low IQ Orthodox Jews

    They are well represented in selective units – Air Force & Intelligence.

    The really hardcore ones marry quite early. You can get them into the IDF, but you have to have special units with no ancillary women (clerks, cooks, drivers, etc) present. Their wives don’t want them near TelAviv girls…..

    It’s do-able. They just stood-up an ultra-orthodox battalion of Paratroopers to accommodate the yeshiva boys who want the extra pay that comes with being combat-rated.

  265. @Ron Unz

    Ron, you are wrong on “elites” though.

    It’s rooted on what are the definitions of “elites”:

    1. Western elites(intellectual/cultural/economical/ social/political) are the by and large normally defined, except there is a strong segment of Jewish involvment and reflections of their self interests. This is because the West is a normal capitalism society for the last 200 years. The best have gone to top , by and large, as a result.

    ( Similar to the Japanese and Taiwanese/Singaporean/South Korean societies, which have 150 years and post-war 70 years multi-generation capitalism respectively in the making.)

    2. Chinese “elites” are different. China still is a “Communist” one-party-controlled state where if one doesn’t recognise the party, one can’t go to the elite class, no matter how capable and intelligent he is. There’re MANY. In Panda’s view roughly 8 out of 10 of China’s current political, social and economical “elites” are not the true elites (intellectual and cultural as the basis and the core) really comparable to the West.

    The only thing that saves China from total ruin nowadays is the sheer average IQ of the Han despite horrible Chinese social/economical/political “elites”. The real Han Chinese (intellectual and cultural) elites are now by and large situated in the middle layer of the Chinese society.

    Plus, time to bust the myth that “most top Chinese political elites are engineers”: they are not. Their so-called diplomas are dogy to say the least.

    However, you are right though that on average they are more patrotic compared to thier werstern counterparts given the natural influence of China’s uber strong history and their self-interest to tighthold the power.

  266. @Discard

    There’s a UK parallel in that we don’t have great Jewish industrialists like Alfred Mond or the people who created the various companies that became GEC any more.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Electric_Company_plc

    On the other hand, two out of the last four of our Lords Chief Justice have been Jewish.

  267. No_0ne says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    “Iran invested in education, including education of women”

    Are you claiming that increasing higher education for women is a PRO-fertility measure? Or am I misunderstanding you here? Because historically, the opposite certainly seems to be the case.

  268. AaronB says:
    @Talha

    Talha, you make excellent points, but you and I strictly a minority opinion in the modern world.

    Most Americans simply can’t understand this kind of talk. To them, nothing has value except gadgets, stuff, money, and power. Americans are angry and miserable, but incapable of questioning their assumptions and values. They’re on autopilot. They simply assume everyone is like them, or that everyone wants more than anything to be like them but cant, because they’re too stupid.

    And yet Americans regularly rank as the least happy in the world. Try connecting the dots to an American, and he will just attack you.

    Europeans are only slightly better, and China seems to have chosen the American path, and are rapidly becoming stupider than Americans. The Chinese are probably already stupider than Americans.

    Which worries me, as it seems no one is capable of resisting this virus – one after another, each great culture collapses.

    Sanity probably exists only the margins these days.

  269. Seraphim says:
    @Equalizer

    I can’t remember who said that it would be revealed that ‘the whole history of mankind was just a chapter in the history of China’. It was before 2000 in a book (?) meditating about the past centuries and the prospects of the new Millenium.
    It is possible even that Chinese have invented almost everything and innovated on what they took from outside!

    • Replies: @Equalizer
  270. TJM says:
    @Drakejax

    No moron, nice try, there is no such thing as “Jewish exceptionalism”, just Jewish nepotism. Jews dominate central banking/Wall Street and use that financial ill gotten gains to insure their “tribe” gets a leg up.

    We see this most glaringly with Facebook: A few guys create facebook, but the ONE who rises above the rest to get the billions, a Jew. Not because he is smarter, or had more a hand in it, but because that is who his Zionist Jew benefactors would fund.

    See the same thing in music, movies, entertainment, if you are a Jew, you have a leg up over non Jews in the industry.

    And what has all this Jew influence given us over the past 50 years or so, bullet trains, universal health care, the best education system in the world, NOPE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! These fuckers have used their advantage to rape America of its culture, its resources, and its morals.

    Look at AIPAC, NJC, ADL, AEI, CNAC, CFR, and so many more Zionist Jew organizations that push for military spending, at the cost of our infrastructure, wars in the Middle East, at the cost of our morals, open borders, and ignorance of our population through media control.

    Maybe the Chinese can save up from this parasitic infestation!

  271. TJM says:
    @Priss Factor

    Whenever Jews wins, the rest of us lose, hopefully the Chinese can save us from this menace.

  272. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Priss Factor

    Sad how you label eyeryone ……. a yelloid, a goyim, a Filo, a “negress having 8 kids after gorging on dumplings and mooshoo pork”. The only people you don’t denigrate are Jewish. My conclusion is you are one of the tribe. I guess you learned that superior attitude from your “holy” books. Hitler must have read them too.

  273. tbraton says:
    @5371

    Having just read Shlomo Sands’ book, his contention is that Judaism was a proselytizing religion for a brief spell (couple of hundred years) in the early part of the first part of the first millennium A.D., but is not now. That’s how he explains the spread of Jews around the Roman Empire, not the expulsion of the Jews from Israel, most of whom remained there. The latter thought had occurred to me when I read Tacitus 50 years ago, and he spoke of the Romans destroying Jerusalem and prohibiting Jews from living in Jerusalem from that point on. Prohibition from living in Jerusalem did not seem the same to me as prohibition from living in Israel. I had a hard time reconciling what Tacitus said with what I was hearing and reading about the total exile of the Jews from the “Promised Land.”

    • Replies: @5371
  274. TJM says:

    It is laughable to read many of these posts, proclaiming Jew intelligence, and look around America, where they supposedly flourish and see a wasteland.

    Hollywood, a bastion of jew nepotism and control, produces nothing but shallow propaganda masquerading as entertainment, is that Jew leadership gives us?

    Wall Street is certainly run by Jew greed and “brilliance”, working so hard are they to make every working man pay a tribute to their empire, and what do we have to show for it?

    “Intelligence” with no morals or social responsibility is simply evil. We see the world paying the price for Jewish domination. Greece, Venezuela, and the whole world payed a price for Jew Wall Street governance in 2008.

    In foreign affairs, Iraq payed the price for Jew dominance of US foreign policy. Zionist Jews work the hardest to destabilize and destroy cohesiveness in the world, especially the Middle east.

    In media, jews most certainly dominate, and Facebook, and both of these are just more tools of manipulation, the people who digest this PR from those outlets are far less informed than those who seek out truth for themselves.

    Medicine, oh yes, we see many advances, that simply extend the life, not actually cure anything, interesting how that model is also the model of healthcare that produces the most profits over the longest period of time.

    What a fucking joke, reading these ignorance comments proclaiming Jewish “intelligence, yet they simply ignore where that “intelligence” had taken us. God willing the Chinese will replace the Jew as our “intellectual” leaders, I don’t think the world can survive much more of their “brilliance”.

  275. Equalizer says:
    @Priss Factor

    Arrogance and speak with fork tongue: White people, right? Your insights are short sighted and biased.

  276. Che Guava says:
    @tbraton

    tbraton,

    Thx.

    but it seems you share my skepticism about the benefits of those technological marvels.

    To an extent, sure. I am unsure about the utility of some lines, but the first, Tokyo to Osaka, then to Fukuoka, seems to be useful.

    Won’t go into route-by-route details, but I’d prefer it if the latest ones weren’t there. So many factors. In Aomori, for example, the area around Aomori station is charming, but the bullet-train station is a desert, soulless, nothing around but the fake-trad. mini-mall below the platforms.

    Even if I have a ticket that allows unlimited bullet-train, special-express riding in an area, I will always check the all-stops lines that I have never seen before. Many surprises, much beautiful scenery, interesting places, much better than flying past them t in a second or so.

    Economics is not the dominator of experience, unless one is at the extreme in either direction in terms of ecoomic dominance (very poor or a plutocrat).

    As for prop. vs.jet, the prop. seems still to be the more efficient (or economical, as you would put it), on relatively short-haul flights, with only a few tens of passengers.

  277. I mostly enjoy reading the comments on Unz, but I don’t come to this site to read through others’ flame wars, or to immerse myself in Dominique-Priss-Factory-Anonymny’s repetitive, browser-crashing diatribes. I just scroll through all of that stuff.

    Priss, you have some serious mental issues and obviously way too much time on your hands. This stuff has got to stop or eventually more worthy correspondents will just abandon this place.

  278. Hacienda says:
    @Equalizer

    Whites live in a machine trance state. Their awareness of non-machine conscious states comes only from foreign races. Which they spent a sizable period of their history destroying. But, God sees. And things return.

    • Replies: @Equalizer
  279. Rdm says:
    @Obamadon_Imbecilis

    Of course, we can’t pick any one of the NBA black players and label them as stupid. They must know some forms of basketball rules and regulations.

    What I am pointing out here is, Blacks excel at physical games. Lebron can drive to the paint and get the basket. Kobe can shoot 85 a game and claim the MVP of the year. But if we look at all the physical games, NBA, NFL, MBL, those games are not invented by Blacks, let alone the inherent strategic play and game tactics.

    That’s why when this long-winded Dominique compared Black and Whites in sports to Jews and Asians in academics, I said it’s an utter BS.

    East Asians invent their own culture, philosophy, system and games, i.e., everything you can imagine that exist in any society or civilization.

    Jews were used to be marginalized in Europe, persecuted, discriminated, and after all slaughtered in the names of Aryan race. Either you like their stereotypical crooked nose, manipulative mindset, money minded ugly looking creature, we have to admit the fact that Jews in fact are really the smartest of the world. Yes, are they physically strong? Are they athletically superior? NO, let alone their dick size.

    Now look at the only country that runs the world, the US. In order to the run the entire World, composed of the 7 continent, 196 countries, you don’t need a 8 inch long dick size, you don’t need a fast fiber twitch in your muscle, you only need a number of brainiacs to tightly control the massive society. Who does that?

    Jews. Any of the advanced fields, you’d see Jews. Were they automatically invited to the elite smart club? Jews were discriminated in higher education. But they emerged as the smartest mind of the world. City College of New York (CCNY) used to be Harvard of the poor, producing Nobel laureates several times than any of the public universities in the US. Of course when Jews filled up the class with their hunger. There are numerous Jewish Nobel Prize winners than 8 inches long Jewish dicks for sure.

    But now with America filling up CCNY with 8 inches long Black dick, and BLM, you get porn instead of nobel prize.

    ————-

    Now if we look at the East Asians, we see the similar pattern, albeit with a plethora of historical baggage. EA, Japanese were persecuted in the US. Chinese were excluded for immigration. East Asians in general were made to serve as a fodder for American caricatures. This time, East Asians don’t have crooked nose, they only have slanted eyes. They were deemed inferior to let in for higher education, especially Science back in the days.

    East Asians in fact are not really making as easy as Jews in American society because 1) they are uniquely distinct either in physical or mental philosophical view of the world 2) they don’t fit in as easy as Jews with their mongoloid features 3) their language.

    Even with all those specific types of issues inherent to a certain race, East Asians are slowly and eventually taking up the higher education in the US.

    The pattern we’re seeing today is reflective of what we’ve seen in earlier days to Jews.

    So when this long-winded Dominique compared Jews & Asians in Academics and Blacks and Whites in sports, I laughed my ass off.

    Jews make their homeland (either good or bad is left to argue) in Middle East.
    Chinese make a small island to one of the world most developed, higher education, higher HDI country – Singapore.

    Blacks make what?

    All the while, White men are so concerned about their dick sizes.

    This dominique pulling some shit out of her mouth is as funny as Kyrie Irving having a yacht party without any sista and claimed he’s not discriminating against any Black women.

    • Replies: @Priss Factor
  280. @Priss Factor

    A couple of points.

    1) YouTube is banned in China. Chinese primarily use their own video sharing websites such as iQiyi and Youku/Tudor.

    2) The primary language of the net in China is Chinese.

    3) YouTube and Google search autofill results are influenced by your own search history

    • Replies: @gmachine1729
  281. Priss Factor [AKA "Dominique Francon Society"] says: • Website
    @Rdm

    “Jews make their homeland (either good or bad is left to argue) in Middle East.
    Chinese make a small island to one of the world most developed, higher education, higher HDI country – Singapore.

    Blacks make what?”

    Blacks make babies.

    [MORE]

    In the US, black men impregnate most women on per capita basis. Not only with black women but with non-black women. Asian men impregnate least women on per capita basis. Indeed, they even lose 50% of Asian women to other men. Many more black men impregnate yellow women than black men impregnate black women(which is very rare).
    And many secular Jews don’t make babies. They are like Jonathan Rosenbaum. Watches movies all his life, but never married and no kids.

    In the end, LIFE goes on.
    Asians and Jews may build things and systems, but those things and systems don’t make life.
    Only life create life. Asian males suck at making life. This is true even in Asia. And in globalized world, many Asian women prefer to make life for other men.
    With huge black African waves into EU and worship of blacks on both sensual and spiritual level, EU will turn into Cuckrope. And Muslims in EU are making more life than EU Jews are.

    Singapore, Japan, Korea, Taiwan, and China have one child per woman. They are dying.
    Black Africa has 6 child per woman. And in the US where interracism is now religion, black men hump and make babies with lots of women.
    I see so many single mothers of all colors with mulatto babies.
    As young women with raging hormones and into sex culture, many of them don’t think long term. They just think of fun and thrill now. Also, as they are hooked to rap and sports, they see black men as top winner and want to have ‘winner’ kids of winner dads. Now, we may say that kind of winnerdom is pretty shallow and stupid, but we are living in a shallow thrill-based society. Just look at all the tatoos.

    Anyway, this is why blacks will win.

    Most mulatto kids are of black father and white mother.. Most blasians like Tiger Woods are of black father and asian mother. Most hisblacknicks are of black father and brown mother.

    Jews make software and asians make computer chips, but blacks make more life. Life has agency; things-made-by-people do not. They exist to serve life. So, if jews and asians create things and if blacks make life, those things made by jews and asians will serve black lives.

    Look at South Africa. whites made everything but blacks made more life… and those things now serve blacks.

  282. Wade says:

    All of this raised feelings of doom and gloom, especially the part comparing Han Chinese population to US White Gentile population and the thought that an overtake of our culture by the Chinese is practically inevitable. Then I felt a ray of hope break through, as dim as it might be:

    I watch Chinese technology as best I can. In fifteen years, China has gone from having no supercomputers to having slightly more than the US has, including the world’s two fastest, the most rapid of which (TaiHuiLight) is a Chinese design using Chinese semiconductors. (Obama, ever brilliant, stopped Intel from selling them chips, so they apparently decided the needed to supply their own.) The quantum-crypto line from Beijing to Shanghai, said to have been spurred by a desire to keep NSA off China’s back, is noticeably more advanced than carrier pigeons.

    The thesis you’ve been alluding to of the possibility that hard work rather than genes explains the reason for ethnic differences in achievement combine with the above to proffer a viable way future for Goyim Americans: White cultural pride channeled into the desire to beat china technically the way we channeled our efforts during the cold war into NASA. Not saying we will come out on top. However, we could come in a close second and prevent a total takeover. The end game is not domination, just independence and the maintenance of our way of life. Obama did indeed do a good thing when he stopped Intel from selling to China. I wish this could’ve happened 20 years sooner. Oh well, waddya waddya…

    Now it’s time for Trump to raise the tattered American flag and ignite once again a burning desire in the hearts of US business patriots, however few may still remain, to reverse course that the globalists heretofore had been leading us on.

    Suspicions should be raised far and wide as to whether or not China is using ethnic Chinese Americans to infiltrate US companies and governments to steal technology. An informal expectation that Chinese Americans need not apply to positions which increase the risk to
    America that any of our secrets might be stolen should be in play. John Derbyshire eloquently said as much just a few weeks back.

    Start protecting our way of life from the Chinese Behemoth!

    • Agree: artichoke
  283. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Bee

    Jew Jew Abrahms nostalgia for America that never was

  284. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @DB Cooper

    Complete nonsense. Why then does the Dalai Lama live in India, an entire town Dharamsala gifted to him and tens of thousands of his followers?

    • Replies: @DB Cooper
  285. 5371 says:
    @tbraton

    The more recent its origins, the more successful Judaism was at proselytism.

  286. artichoke says:
    @dcite

    Also they come here because we’re soft. We don’t want to beat them, but they do want to beat us. We need some hunger, some competitive spirit.

  287. artichoke says:
    @Equalizer

    If IQ tests measure what they should, it won’t be the Middle Easterners. They’re flooding into Europe to take what the white people built.

  288. artichoke says:
    @PandaAtWar

    When I was a kid in the 60’s, we were far more exposed to sports stars and certain select politicians than scientists. I would have related to a school history unit on great men of science, but there was none. I don’t personally think Asians are great at composing music — from what I’ve been exposed to of course. There are lots of pop stars in China but their skill doesn’t impress me, even if it attracts crowds of teenage girls in those countries like pop stars anywhere. And the things they do very well on a world standard are of a technical nature that has been downplayed in our schools — maybe a control strategy against us but an older one, not a new one.

    • Replies: @Priss Factor
  289. Equalizer says:
    @Seraphim

    I don’t know about that. But talk to muslims and Asians and they are generally friendly. They care for their families. Talk to white people, often its about “me, me me”. Intuitively, thinkers know that whites will be the losers.

  290. Equalizer says:
    @Hacienda

    Yes. Talk to muslims and Asians and they are generally friendly. They care for their families. Talk to white people, often its about “me, me me”. Intuitively, thinkers know that whites will be the losers. No matter how white make themselves important and claim to be able to think for themselves, new immigrants are amused that whites follow government guidelines for diet, guidelines for terror alerts, guidelines from western doctors, guidelines for this and that, all without any critical thinking. Many Asian and muslims immigrants follow their traditions and do not become fat and stupid like white Americans. (I am talking like white people, i.e, adversarial mode, because that what they understand. In reality the world is an interconnected web of consciousness). Superficially, whites create machines for this and that (especially to kill) and this app and that app and they pat themselves on the back for being creative. But in the end the humanity of middle easterners, Asians, natives and blacks will win over the robotic machine creativeness of the whites.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Art
    , @dcite
    , @Salger
    , @Santoculto
  291. Unzerker says:
    @Equalizer

    But finally [whites] time came (in the last 300 years) to show something and they took eastern inventions like gun powder and rampage through the world.

    Where do you get this nonsense? From 1200 on, pretty much any invention came from Europe. And in the classical world the West quickly started to dominate the region. First it was the Greeks and after them the Romans.

    • Replies: @Equalizer
  292. Talha says:
    @Equalizer

    But in the end the humanity of middle easterners, Asians, natives and blacks will win over the robotic machine creativeness of the whites.

    Perhaps, but White Europeans (and their offshoots – Australia, America) did have a culture that had solid traditions, was spiritual and produced deep poetry. Their hope may lie in their ability to recover the best parts of their tradition – but it will require them to realign their priorities and the society that emerges may not be one we recognize (for the better – who the hell wants to see people twerking in public except debased minds). Likewise, Asians or Muslims (or others) who are willing to cast aside the positive parts of their tradition in order for material gain will also join the ‘robotic machine’; none are immune based simply on their heritage.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Equalizer
  293. Daniel H says:
    @Ron Unz

    I’m going long Baidu on Tuesday. Has 90% of the Chinese search market. Is profitable. Has PE ration of around 10. Compare that to Google.

  294. Equalizer says:
    @Unzerker

    You are about 400 years off. In 1200, both the ME and Asia had great cities with many technologies (e.g, glass making in ME and metallurgy in Asia). The Mongols soon put to brake to many of these progress, which went west, but it still took until the mid 1600’s for the Europeans to say that they are ahead of every body else.

    In the classical world, the Greeks were the civilized ones and recognized by the East as such. The Romans and other Europeans were considered barbarians.

    • Replies: @Unzerker
  295. DB Cooper says:
    @anonymous

    “Complete nonsense. Why then does the Dalai Lama live in India, an entire town Dharamsala gifted to him and tens of thousands of his followers?”

    Why then does the Dalai Lama live in India? Simple answer is politics. Longer answer is his operations is well-funded by the West. This is not even controversial. Dalai Lama admitted he is funded by the CIA as far back as in the 50s.

    Go to China and talk to the Tibetans there. On the other hand South Tibet, renamed by India to the so called ‘Arunachal Pradesh’ is closed off to the rest of the world. The fact that India classify that area as ‘disturbed’ just like Kashmir says a lot of the resentment of the Tibetans there towards India.

  296. Wade says:
    @Ron Unz

    All I can say is Damn, I hope you get elected!

    I don’t live in California so I can’t vote for you.

  297. Unzerker says:
    @Equalizer

    You are just making shit up. To consider the Romans, the biggest most advanced civilization at the time “barbarians” is absurd.

    And name me one invention after 1200 from either China or the ME. By 1200 Europe was second to none when it came to technology. They were the most mechanized civilization on the planet. Water-, wind- and animal-powered machines in quantities that were unmatched anywhere on the planet. China and the ME on the other hand had almost stopped using the wheel.

    Also by 1300, Europe had matched China when it came to wealth:

    • Replies: @Equalizer
  298. Jews – there aren’t many, and they’re not so hungry anymore.

    Chinese – there are lots and lots of Chinese, and right now they’re hungry.

    Dysgenics may also have hit the Jews earlier than the Chinese, but I doubt it’s a major differentiating factor.

    • Replies: @Priss Factor
  299. Art says:
    @Equalizer

    But in the end the humanity of middle easterners, Asians, natives and blacks will win over the robotic machine creativeness of the whites.

    The meek will get the Earth – the aggressive shall gain the stars.

  300. TJM says:
    @Ivy

    Jews excel where education and nepotism are most advantageous. take away access and financial backing, and lets see how the “chosen” do.

  301. Equalizer says:
    @Unzerker

    I think your are the one many shit up. The Golden Age of Islam went into at least the 1300’s. Islam decline due mostly to the Mongol invasions in the 1200’s. Europe was way behind in those times. India and China made up most of the world’s wealth up to around 1700. The British East India Company started the draining of the wealth of India, and the Opium Wars drained the influence of China. The Europeans caught up with eastern technology by around the mid_1600’s, not 1200 as you claim. You are 400 years off.

    The Romans were not loved by anyone, especially the Greeks. The Romans considered themselves civilized, but not by most neighbors. They thrived on violence to get their ways. The Greeks were the real civilized ones.

    • Replies: @Unzerker
    , @Marcus
    , @Salger
  302. TJM says:
    @Realist

    Britex would beg to differ, as well as sites such as this.

    Rich Jews have enjoyed a monopoly on information distribution, controls over capitalism, and entertainment, Music, movies, books…

    They have controlled much of what society takes in on a daily basis, and that is changing very fast.

    It is hard to anticipate where these changes will lead, but considering where Jewish control was taken us, it can ONLY be an improvement.

    • Replies: @Realist
  303. TJM says:

    I have not witnessed Jew success that could not be directly attributed to bias Zionist Jew funding that ONLY funds Jews over the rest of humanity, or nepotism. But if there was some intellectual superiority, it would pail to the superiority they themselves believe they posses.

    There are many types of genius, physical, artistic, intellectual, spacial, and again if Jews do benefit from some increased intellectual condescending arrogant people one could meet. And if you have ever met a group of Israeli settlers, you know the face of hate itself.

    Intelligence without morality is evil, witness Wall Street, Israel and Hollywood.

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  304. Thim says:

    The two Chinese supercomputers mentioned are not Chinese technology. For the chips, they lease MIPS, pure Western technology, and then they tweak it. For the OS, it is a version of Linux, a Euro-American achievement.

    • Replies: @TJM
  305. Priss Factor [AKA "Dominique Francon Society"] says: • Website
    @Simon in London

    “Jews – there aren’t many, and they’re not so hungry anymore.”

    Or maybe too hungry. Too hungry for individual success and forsaking group identity.
    Jonathan Rosenbaum was all about movies and never got married. If his father had been like him, Rosenbaum would never have been born.
    Pauline Kael had only one kid, and with a homo man.
    Sontag had only one kid and divorced.
    John Simon(who doesn’t consider himself Jewish but has Jewish background) got married but never juggled his balls to produce a kid. He is very high IQ but his genes met a dead end. His IQ genes die with him. What a waste.

    Now, Norman Mailer was a super-ball-juggler-and-soaker, and he produced a bunch of kids. Dylan and Bellow too(though it’s too bad that Dylan married a negress during his Christian period. Christianity makes you stupid.). And all three had some conservative inclinations(if not entirely).

    Ball-jugglers win in the end. But we see more Jews living for individual success. And since Jewish women are often just as ambitious as the men, it’s not easy for Jewish men to find a Jewish woman who will be wife and mother. Friedan began the whole ‘house-wife is holocaust’ nonsense. No, feminist man-hatred and failure to reproduce kids is bio-holocaust or biocaust or reprocaust.

    Mailer was a wild man and out of control but he did produce a brood and took good care of them, so he deserves respect as a patriarch ball-juggler.

    “Chinese – there are lots and lots of Chinese, and right now they’re hungry.”

    Hunger for individual success. They are going the same way as Jews… but there are more of them.

    • Replies: @Equalizer
    , @Stonehands
  306. dcite says:
    @Equalizer

    So the soulful POCs are inheriting all that whites have robotically created? Are you channeling the late Elija Muhammad by any chance?

    Do you understand the nature of creation and intelligence at all? It is not exclusive to any one race, so one should expect some reflection here, and that goes for the Asians=robotic crowd too.

    Still, I suppose it is less humiliating to dismiss the gob smacking achievements of the last 1,000 years (you pick the race/state) as the creation of a robotic life form, but it’s inaccurate and silly. These sorts of emotional diatribes just make you sound desperate. If you want to see salivating pocs as circling the dying body of European/Amoerican patrimony (that’s the best vision you have), one thing is sure to happen: they will last until they pick the bones clean.

    othoh, Talha seems to have a pretty good sense of balance about things.

    • Replies: @Equalizer
  307. Equalizer says:
    @dcite

    Did you read my posts carefully? I said: In reality the world is a tangle web of consciousness. I also said that I am talking like those white posters because its easier for you to understand. Notice that once I say some thing about white creativity (being good at machines but lacking soul), then its fireworks for whites. Yet, they, day and night, make sure that Asian are put down as uncreative copycats. So I mention whites creative skills in a way whites don’t like and I am attacked. NO I am not spewing out diatribe. IT is REALLY TRUE that recent immigrants are amused at how whites follow this that that government guideline (then get fat anyway). It is also TRUE that white people are hypocritical and not introspective. As proof, read over any forum that involves Asians, Muslims, immigrants.

    • Replies: @Salger
  308. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Priss Factor

    Blah,Blah Blah. this comment goes out of its way to negate the basic facts of the article (somewhat hysterically ). And that is that Jewish dominance of western institutions in general and American society on particular is out and Asian ascendancy is in. And this is a welcome turn of events in my opinion.

  309. Equalizer says:
    @Priss Factor

    You seem to think everything is genetics and biology (and by extension atoms and molecules). Basically, biological determinism. Lot of people, especially whites have this mind set. It is a very narrow point of view. There is a whole spiritual dimension that you missed.

    • Replies: @Priss Factor
    , @Talha
  310. Realist says:
    @TJM

    “Britex would beg to differ, as well as sites such as this. ”

    Neither is a threat to rich Jewish power.

    • Replies: @TJM
  311. I do think there are probably a good deal of useful IQ items not usually mentioned that may be in the advantage of Chinese subpopulations like working memory, long term memory, and a host of other actual intellectual traits that really matter but IQ tests don’t care for.

    But as Gene Su also put, asian parents *force* their children to study, sometimes even using barbaric methods like spanking and scoulding instead of the proper white way of giving them Adderall and after that giving up.

    But just as much, I do think the cultural effects matter. There is utterly no social force now in America that would urge on a young man to enter the world of science or engineering, and everything discouraging it when young besides teachers. I mostly see the ranking as “Doctor, Lawyer, Military, Teacher, Engineer, Businessman, luck out in a social science course, stay in graduate school until the age of 35…………blue collar worker, welder…SCIENTIST, dude who should have become a doctor instead!”

    Ever watched the blatant nerd mocking that the Big Bang theory does? Why would any guy growing up who watches people laugh at that show *want* to have absolutely anything to do with science, unless one is disconnected enough from the culture that they monstly are friends with people who watch Anime? Or something.

    You can see the social rewards that Asian Males get for being so studious and more intellectually productive then even jewish males by being the butt of every media joke and solidly making up the intellectual wing of the bitter red pillers online.

    http://philip.greenspun.com/careers/women-in-science

    Philip Greenspun did a great piece on it “Adjusted for intelligence, science is the worst paying career, and computer engineers and the most introverted people on the planet, and I was an idiot young male for entering that turbulent job market and was smart enough to become a rich doctor and only money matters at my age”

    I feel that only recently has it become socially acceptable to major in computer science, half of it is the massivly expanding wages for CS guys from top 50 schools and billionaires and startups, and half of it seems like “Oh, so you’re the guys who will make me unemployed in 6 years and spy on everything normal people do”

  312. TJM says:
    @Realist

    Just saying something does not make it so, you need to say why?

    Is Jew power based on something “other worldly”?

    There is a reason the Jewish media and the Jewish World Order worked so hard to defeat it, because they succeed when nations and people lose their borders and identity…As people take back their nations, Jew power wanes and danger for the Israeli state increases. Now I can be more specific but considering I have nothing to counter, because you did not say anything, I will hold till such time, if ever you decide to argue a point, not just state a belief.

    • Replies: @Realist
  313. TJM says:
    @Thim

    “Euro-American”, neither means Jewish made, or that people of Chinese decent were not involved.

  314. Priss Factor [AKA "Dominique Francon Society"] says: • Website
    @Equalizer

    “There is a whole spiritual dimension that you missed.”

    Look, I understand that it’s not just about biology and reproduction.
    If it were, we would be no better than insects, salmon, and frogs that produce like crazy. Or like rabbits.

    If humans just banged and had kids, they’d be no better than chimps or bonerbos or baboons.

    Of course, culture matters.

    [MORE]

    Biology alone is just animalism.

    But spirituality alone is just fantasy.

    A Jainist or Shaker community can choose to believe that they find heaven or enlightenment by forsaking biology and just praying or meditating. Whatever happens in the OTHER world, the fact it is end of the line in this world.

    Same with Catholic priests. They can believe themselves to serve God via celibacy and ball-juice-jamming in pure spiritual devotion, but IN THIS WORLD, it is end of the line.

    The genius of Judaism is it fused biology with spirituality. God made the Jewish genitals holy thru the Covenant and obedience to the Law that forbade debauchery of the Golden Calf.
    Be fruitful and multiply, not fruity and pewdiepie.

    Spirituality or culture is crucial to being human, BUT humans must exist in the first place in order to be cultural and spiritual. So, those who read but don’t breed are finished. You must breed before you have a child to teach how to read.

    Too many choose individual greed over tribal breed.

    Individualism atomizes one’s view of life. Prior to individualism, people saw themselves as part of the life/culture continuum that goes from ancestors to descendants. They were part of a thread. Individuals in the here and now were not the END ALL of life. They were created by life that came before; they were extensions of ancestors. Sons were extensions of fathers, and their own sons were extensions of themselves after they passed away. It’s like the scene in Bible when it’s so important for sons to receive blessing of father Isaac.

    Each person felt that the line-of-my-people lived on through him, and it must live on through his kids and their kids and so on.
    An individual knows he is obligated to eat and drink and piss and poo every day in order to live to next day. Those are biological obligations of life. Every individual believes at least that much, an obligation to life until they die of old age or disease. But they feel no obligation to live on through their heirs. They see children as entirely separate individuals than as extensions of themselves. They don’t believe that they live on through their kids.

    Today, Individuals don’t see themselves as part of a continuum or thread. They see themselves as separate and unique. They don’t primarily identify with their parents and forebears but with abstract ideas and high art(if intellectual) or with celebrities and pop culture(if vulgar). So, they think life is all about ‘me, me, me’. They don’t see themselves as continuation of their parents, grandparents, great grandparents, and etc.
    No sense of line-of-my-people.
    So, they think life begins and ends with them. They don’t think, “My kids will be the extension of me and my ancestors. After I die, I will live through them in blood and narrative I bequeath them.”
    So, they feel no obligation to continue their life(via their kids) beyond their own death. Hebrews believed that fathers live through the blood of their sons. So, even a great great great great great etc grandfather Jew is still alive in the current living Jew. The current Jew is bearing the torch handed down to him, and he must pass it down to his son who must pass it down to his son ad infinitum via the holy scrotum. If he doesn’t, not only he but all his ancestors will die with him. Since he embodies all his ancestors (Bible is filled with “this guy is son of this guy who is son of that guy who is son of this guy who is son of that guy…”), having a son isn’t merely a continuation of himself after his death but all his ancestors, the ‘line of my people’.
    Chinese also had this in ancestor worship. Even the Germanic barbarians had it.

    So, it depends on one’s view of life. Do you see yourself as an individual or an ‘indivisible’? As an individual, you are alone and autonomous and have no connection to ancestors or descendants. It’s all about you. You have no obligation to anyone but yourself and a vague sense of ‘humanity’.
    But if you see yourself as an ‘indivisible’, the meaning of your life comes from its connection to ancestors and descendants. You receive the torch, make the fire better, and then pass it down.

    Alas, globalism makes people no longer identify with own kind. Since they identify with all mankind, they figure ‘humanity’ will go on even if their own race/tribe vanishes. A lousy view of life.

    In the past, there was too much emphasis on ancestors and culture and not enough on the individual. So, there was the radical revolt of the individual, and this made so many men and then women and then children feel so free to pursue their individual fun and happiness.
    But self-indulgence and self-gratification don’t lead to long-term sense of fulfilment and happiness. Fun gets silly and tiresome and we grow old. True meaning comes from family.
    What people need is a balance of the tribal thread and individual needle.

    It could be that parents and kids felt a closer tie in the past than now when so much of education and knowledge are outsourced to institutions.
    In the past, when most folks were farmers, shepherds, blacksmiths, or hunter-gatherers, the main education happened from parent to child. Father farmer taught son. Father blacksmith taught son. Father hunter taught son. Mother homemaker taught daughter.
    So, father passed down both genes and culture to sons. But today, fathers don’t play that role. They create kids but kids are educated by schools that encourage atomized individualism and PC deracination.
    And instead of family sharing family lore and legend through talk, everyone just sits and watch TV and movies. It’s like Japanese boys mainly identify with videogame characters and Japanese girls mainly identify with soap opera characters.

    It’s hard for parents to win respect from kids cuz changing technology and fashion make older stuff ‘uncool’ or ‘outdated’. But parents can still pass down culture and heritage. Those are beyond technology and fashion. But few parents even care about that stuff. They just have kids and hand the kids over to public education and pop culture.

    The sense of family you see in Yasujiro Ozu films is gone, but then, things were changing fast back then too. Prior to TV, there was cinema, but after the movie, family would sit together and talk. But with TV in the house, they are always glued to the TV and ignoring one another. Many families don’t even eat together.

    AVALON by Barry Levinson made the same point. Kids are just glued to the TV.
    Boomers generation was the first TV generation that grew up identifying more with Flinstones than with their own parents.

    Now, with so much more–with kids on smartphone 24/7–, it’s much worse.

    • Replies: @Equalizer
  315. WhatEvvs [AKA "Mipchunk"] says:
    @AaronB

    Also Hispanics – Sailer did something about the “Hispanic paradox” — i.e., they have the lowest infant mortality rates of any US pop’n group, thus disproving the “barriers to health care” excuse w/respect to high infant mortality rates among US blacks. Check back in a generation when their IM rates have risen.

    The HBD crowd is made up of cruel losers. I guess I used to be one. But funny thing, I got out of the house a little and didn’t not notice things. I notice that black African women are not like African-American women. They are slender, feminine, and normal. Not that I want them to come here in their billions. I do not. Just pointing out a fact.

    • Replies: @colm
  316. Realist says:
    @TJM

    You have not stated a reason why you think Jews are losing control. Britain has not left the EU and this web site is too small to be a threat to the rich Jews. Greed rules and both political parties in this country are dependent on money from rich Jews.

  317. Talha says:
    @Equalizer

    Bro, you are making the wrong argument; a materialist, by virtue of his cosmology cannot arrive at any other conclusion – as far as he is concerned, there is no ghost in the machine.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Equalizer
  318. mobi says:
    @Randall Parker

    No, no, no. Come on.

    DFS is easily one of the most entertaining posters here.

    I never know when I’m about to spit my drink.

    …Chinese Male Exclusion Act in their pooter

    …a brain filled with IQ but loin lacking in boing.

    He’s a force of nature (and secretly, seldom wrong)

  319. Equalizer says:
    @Talha

    Maybe. A materialist, if he/she (1) cannot feel the spiritual, then at least (2) use logic on the observed world. For example, analyze material forces deeper and deeper and eventual one cannot go any deeper and is left with unexplained causes. The Buddhists are open to this kind of inquiry but generally not westerners.

    • Replies: @Talha
  320. Priss Factor [AKA "Dominique Francon Society"] says:
    @artichoke

    “I don’t personally think Asians are great at composing music — from what I’ve been exposed to of course.”

    Were you exposed to this?

    • Replies: @PandaAtWar
  321. Equalizer says:
    @rod1963

    So you think the Chinese stole their way to wealth? Actually, its almost impossible for a hacker to hack some blueprint and then be able to sell it to some company (quite ridiculous). Even if the Chinese stole the original blueprints they will still not know how things are made or what tools are used. The blueprints only show the dimensions and parts. Accordingly, if the Chinese can perform economic miracles with stolen plans, then they are even more amazing than you think! Why don’t westerners just admit that Chinese got ahead with hard work.

  322. Equalizer says:
    @Talha

    You said “Perhaps, but White Europeans (and their offshoots – Australia, America) did have a culture that had solid traditions, was spiritual and produced deep poetry.”

    I totally agree. However, it’s your style. Very polite. I used to be polite, like you. But I found that most whites are not impressed by politeness in the forums. So, many Asians and Muslims are sidelined. Talk like whites, for example, question their vaunted “creativeness” and they take notice. Otherwise they slap everybody down like they are masters of the universe.

  323. @Priss Factor

    Interesting… Panda trusts antichoke can get used to choking that random segment of the bell curve quite well after being exposed to you here already.

  324. Sam Shama says:
    @TJM

    [Hiding one’s identity via multiple handles is not proper behavior here. Pick one and stick to it, or use Anonymous or Anon.]

    We are not condescending at all. You my friend, need to take a few remedial classes in spelling and grammar.

    • Replies: @Santoculto
    , @TJM
  325. WhatEvvs [AKA "Mipchunk"] says:
    @AaronB

    Ah, Judith Harris, the queen of the HBD crowd. Someone (not me) wrote a terrific take down of one of her books. I looked it up just for you:

    I’m referring to the one-star “D” for delusional. It’s a great review.

    I’m making a prediction here. As the disaster of neoliberal policies continues to destroy the white working class, the HBD crowd will suddenly discover a strange new respect for the effects of culture on a child’s growing mind. They will suddenly acknowledge that having a stable two-parent family (by which I mean mother and father, ideally biological), supportive institutions, the possibility of employment, and religion really does matter! The idea! And of course, they will take credit for inventing this particular wheel.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  326. mtn cur says:
    @Karl

    Hence, braces of pigeons were often used for important stuff.

  327. @Sam Shama

    So called ”intellectual superiority”

    This retarded snakes deserve ”better”…

    since precious one take Uass and other western nations It happened a meteoric civilizational decline.

    Intelligence**

    nope in any galaxy…

    destroy is extremely easy, extremely… in the true all the time many to most people are cautioned not to destroy your living area. there is a natural impetus to destroy among us.

    Jews should be forbidden to think it was never his forte. They think they are spectacular, but they are as mediocre as their despised goy. And worse, they are not only mediocre as avg goy, they are worse, just as the stupid leftist also manages the amazing feat of being dumber than the average rightist. it deserved some reward.

    Supposedly there are thousands of jewish geniuses in literature, poetry, philosophy and science.

    However, surprisingly there was none before Zionist domination in the West, is much coincidence.

    In a direct intellectual competition, read, honest, non-existent word in defective mind of these people, I doubt they could win.

    As they are prodigies in the noble art of lying I wonder if many of these ” winners ” of ” intellectual Awards ”, which magically disappeared, were not only the usual scheming to deceive the goy-retarded (easier than stealing candy from a baby) to think that the ” Jewish intellectual superiority ‘is something palatably impassable, naturally timeless or eternal.

  328. Corvinus says:
    @Crawfurdmuir

    You made an overblown generalization. Leggett is one data point showing “higher education in most of the rest of the world” cultivates talent.

    • Replies: @Crawfurdmuir
  329. Talha says:
    @Equalizer

    Come on bro, you cannot possibly put ‘Westerners’ in one same basket. Have you read Kierkegaard? He sounds like Rumi-lite. Thoreau, Emerson? You can’t really think Westerners have all given up the ghost and become Sam Harris clones, can you? Look, I’m on your side here from the spiritual aspect of things, but are you saying you’ve not met Westerners willing to engage in spiritual discourse? They’re out there – even in this forum – don’t be put off by militant-athiest jerks channeling (ha! channeling!) Hitchens or something.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Equalizer
  330. Equalizer says:
    @Priss Factor

    Nice post about individual persons and collective (“indivisible”) persons. You implied that whites are mostly the first and Jews and Asians are the last, and that people from the last category can get spoiled and transit into the first category.

    I will add that while Jews and Asians are alike in this aspect, the Jews did not have a home country for 2 thousand years, and consequently their collective aspirations often ran counter to the host countries and they became hated in the host countries. When they got their country (Israel) they quickly turned into the spoiled brats that many young Israelis are.

    You also implies that while genetics and culture are important, that spirituality is just some useless or imaginary thing. Not true. Spirituality is hard to obtain or understand and most people who are this or that religion are wasting their time. That’s why Jews win over others, they believe in genetics and culture and don’t waste time with spirituality. However, if Jews and Asians truly become spiritual, the world would be a whole lot better place.

  331. Equalizer says:
    @Talha

    Yes, I agree that westerners do participate in discussions on spirituality, but usually on the level of religion. At the Sufi or Zen level, most people shied away from, especially westerners. But I am also saying its easier to get my point across if I talk like white people and put them down every so often so they don’t get too arrogant.

    • Replies: @Talha
  332. Winston says:

    Why should anyone be surprised at the gradual takeover and dominance by east asians (if they claim themselves to be HBDers)? Ashkenazi jews are not a race per se, as most of them in the US/EU are descendants from European whites. In other words, Jews are white but they distinguish themselves within whites by their culture and tradition, as well as their sense of superiority that comes from their influence in modern times. For example, you may argue that the Finns are the most intelligent and the Italians the least among white people, but then it’d be pointless to say that a jew must be smarter than an Italian because the jew himself could be Italian and have Italian parents.

    Jews are intelligent people (as whites are intelligence people), apart from that their success is largely due to their strong mentality from years of persecutions in history (as opposed to black victimization in the US), strong family structure and emphasis on education (the same as east asians), and most importantly strong nepotism and networks which stem from persecutions in history, and which ironically is the main reason they are hated and persecuted in the first place. However, given that most people here are diehard IQ believers, they will probably disregard all other factors and then they should not be surprised at the east asian takeover at all, since east asians score the highest IQ, right?

  333. Talha says:
    @Equalizer

    Hey Equalizer,

    OK – so you agree on the principle idea. That’s good, that shows you are a deeper thinker than some of your posts let on. Look, I’m polite because of two reasons; my spiritual teachers taught me thus and I try to interact with people as I would face-to-face (I have full conviction that anonymity on a forum does not shield my actions from scrutiny on the Day of Judgement – consider it a type of CYA). This isn’t your first rodeo – why are you catering your interactions to the flotsam floating out there in the digital ocean? I’ve been on this forum for a while, there’s plenty of jerks, but there are a good number of balanced people too (White ones at that). You are turning them away by being unnecessarily aggressive. The jerks won’t like you no matter what – they are dogmatic to the nth degree – you are a yellow sub-human that was born that way and cannot climb your way out out of the trash bin that is your culture because it’s all built in your genes. Avoid them like the plague. Respect and you will get respect back and the people with objective minds (and hearts) will be willing to learn from you. And you may even walk away with some friends.

    I rarely try to correct anyone who posts something that is simply opinion – it’s opinion – who cares. But if they post some assumption based off a factually wrong basis (like all sub-Saharan Africans were waiting for Whites to teach them literacy), I’ll correct them with citation. That has the effect of cutting down their argument and allowing those with open minds to benefit from a different source of knowledge.

    For the record, my interaction with Westerners has been that they (the ones with open minds) are very much interested in Sufism. There is a reason why translations of Mawlana Rumi’s poetry are hot-sellers.

    May God preserve you and yours.

    • Replies: @Equalizer
  334. gwynedd1 says:

    Kind of silly not to notice that many of these Jews had German names. Germany was a leading center of science. However only the Jewish ones had good reason to leave. So the US ended up with a lot of German Jews working on cutting edge science. It was not only Germany, but all over Europe that had this trend. Europeans had no reason to flee. The US has always been a nice place for Jews.

    Our native Jews tend to fall back towards the mean. Now the Chinese who can thrive better in the US are doing the same.

    Jews and Chinese certainly can produce some intelligent people. It is however a myth to consider them so much so that they are born scientists. They are perhaps a few IQ points above the European mean.

    • Replies: @Jim
  335. gwynedd1 says:
    @Borachio

    The West seems increasingly more likely to serve as an example of what not to do for Eastern Europe, China and Japan. I hope it is remembered well after it provides its last gift.

  336. Unzerker says:
    @Equalizer

    So you couldn’t name me one invention after 1200. Not ONE.

    History must be like magic to you. Suddenly 300 years ago those backward European barbarians happened to be the most advanced richest people on the planet who controlled most of the world. How? Magic!

    In the reality everything new and exiting happened in Europe from the 12th century on. Europe was the place where the most advanced structures (gothic cathedrals) were built. Were mechanical clocks were invented and used extensively (on church towers) to increase productivity. The invention of glasses kept skilled people productive when they grew older even though their eye sight was degrading. Europeans unmatched skill at bellcasting to create church bells gave them the tools to produce guns of unparalleled quality compared to the crude guns created by the Chinese. The invention of the printing press resulted in an information revolution only matched by the invention of the internet.
    etc. etc. etc.

    In the mean time China and the ME had stopped using the wheel. The WHEEL.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
    , @Equalizer
    , @Ray
  337. Seraphim says:
    @Unzerker

    @European barbarians happened to be the most advanced richest people on the planet who controlled most of the world. How? Magic!

    No, not magic. Plunder, sheer brutality and criminal disregard for human life (putting to ‘good use’ the Chinese invention of gunpowder and ‘perfecting’ the crude guns of the hapless Chinee, conferring them that ‘unparalleled quality’ for mass killing). Can anyone wonder why the non-‘Whites’ hate them and their ‘way of life’?

  338. Priss Factor [AKA "Dominique Francon Society"] says:
    @Seraphim

    “Plunder, sheer brutality and criminal disregard for human life (putting to ‘good use’ the Chinese invention of gunpowder and ‘perfecting’ the crude guns of the hapless Chinee, conferring them that ‘unparalleled quality’ for mass killing).”

    Zimbabweans long for the good ole days of Rhodesia.

    While Mao was killing millions in orgies of madness and mayhem, Brits did wonders in Hong Kong and Singapore.

    If plunder alone leads to great wealth, Mongols should be the richest folks on earth.

    • Replies: @Jim
  339. Equalizer says:
    @Unzerker

    You wrote: “So you couldn’t name me one invention after 1200. Not ONE.”

    Why is it so important to make sure that you are better and tougher than everyone????? Westerners have this deep need to make others cry “Uncle”, under the force of arms. Basically an insecure civilization.

    FYI, there are thousand and thousands of inventions from China after 1200 (and before). Coke from coal, steel work (precursor to the Samurai sword), seismic detector, clock work, astronomical observations (e.g., Crab Nova observation), artistic tools, musical and wind instruments, farm implements, etc. Those and more can be found in Joseph Needham’s massive multi volume book on Science and Technology in China.

    So you think everything good only came from Europe. Again, I remind you that Europe has dominated the world for only the last 300 to 400 years. They created a mess and karma is catching up and white people are dying out.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @colm
  340. Equalizer says:
    @Talha

    I appreciate your approach. But your approach reaches those on a higher level. The average level is very low. Yet, the average level is what drives society and their views. You are not reaching the average level with your polite posts. Westerners (on average) respect force and telling it forcefully is when they notice. They delight in calling others savages and barbarians. I am only telling the truth when I note that for most of historical times, Europeans are considered the barbarians by most of the advanced world. That today they are not called barbarians is that they control the global MSM. I tell it like it is and that makes them do at least the slightest introspection.

    You fear the Day of Judgement. I tell the truth and I don’t have such fears.

  341. Equalizer says:
    @Seraphim

    Good post. Many young whites do not understand what really happened in the past. There was this utter, sheer, sheer arrogance and racism when the Europeans first saw the Africans, and the thought was to exploit them for profit regardless of suffering. The same happened else where. Because today westerners control the global MSM, they present themselves as a freedom loving, human rights concerned civilization (and they point fingers to non-whites for human rights violations). If they have evolved truly to these higher levels, non-white would not be so angry. But from the posts from whites in this and other forums, it is easy to see that this arrogance and racism is still alive though on a more tempered level.

  342. Priss Factor [AKA "Dominique Francon Society"] says:
    @neutral

    “Jews still run Hollywood (and the all the other mass entertainment) and finance, until I see evidence that the Chinese are taking these over…”

    Many don’t notice Jewish power cuz they are too busy celebrating homo this, tranny that, etc.

    Maybe the next big cause will be FAT ballerinas.

    It would be so INCLUSIVE.

    It never seems to occur to these people that things gain meaning by exclusion and discrimination.
    After all, the ballet ideal cannot be upheld if midgets and fatties were INCLUDED.

    If the weird and freaky are included into something well-defined by form, values, principles, and etc, then that something is undermined and subverted.

    If the military is about honor, then including open homos and trannies destroys honor. Open homosexuality is ewww and tranny stuff is laughable.

    It’s like the validity of the notion of citizenship is lost if illegals are declared ‘Americans’.

    And what happened to home loans when bad loans were bundled with good ones? Financial meltdown in 2008.

    It’s like including garlic in ice cream messes it up.

    And if some people feel left out, well too bad. You can’t always get what you want.

    For things to retain their standards and values, some things and peoples have to be excluded.

  343. @Priss Factor

    “…Now, Norman Mailer was a super-ball-juggler-and-soaker, and he produced a bunch of kids. Dylan and Bellow too(though it’s too bad that Dylan married a negress during his Christian period. Christianity makes you stupid.). And all three had some conservative inclinations(if not entirely)…”

    “…Ball-jugglers win in the end. But we see more Jews living for individual success. And since Jewish women are often just as ambitious as the men, it’s not easy for Jewish men to find a Jewish woman who will be wife and mother. Friedan began the whole ‘house-wife is holocaust’ nonsense. No, feminist man-hatred and failure to reproduce kids is bio-holocaust or biocaust or reprocaust….”

    “…Mailer was a wild man and out of control but he did produce a brood and took good care of them, so he deserves respect as a patriarch ball-juggler…”.

    You are making the case that people like yourself [ who are thorough-going materialists ] are harmless nutters…or perhaps you fashion yourself a high I.Q. depraved/degenerate ala Klaus Barbie?

  344. Rehmat says:
    @Seraphim

    I’m afraid your Jew BAPU and rabbi don’t agree with you.

    “To me Islam is poetry. is science, is to be with the Divine. Islam is beauty,” – Norman Gershman, founder of “BESA, a code of honor” project.

    “I am a Jew of Islam because Judaism under the rule of the Crescent took a different course than that under the rule of the Cross. The Jews of Islam, although decreed by the Pact of Omar as dhimmis or second-class citizen, never experienced the same level of hatred, anti-Semitism or persecution, which were their daily bread in Christendom. They were not demonized as god’s (Jesus) killers and did not have to defend their religion in public deputations. They were not expelled en-masse on religious grounds from a Muslim country as they were from England, France and Catholic Spain,” Rabbi Haim Ovadia, Kahal Joseph Congregation in Los Angeles, California, January, 2008….

    https://rehmat1.com/2010/01/20/gods-house-muslims-saved-jews-from-nazis/

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  345. China has 347 million people with an IQ higher than 115.
    The USA has 41 million.

    China has the world’s largest population of intelligent people.

    No other nation comes remotely close.

    Therefore China is the only nation that could become more powerful than America.

    Possibly much more powerful.

    Graph:

    Note:
    I use Professor Richard Lynn’s estimate of the mean IQ for each nation.

    For all nations, I assume a Gaussian distribution with a standard deviation of 15.

    In a Google Sheets spreadsheet, I use this formula:
    = Total_Population * (1 – NORMDIST (115, Average_IQ_of_Nation, 15, TRUE ))

    Spreadsheet:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1n7wEQnmMZI1_ZYob5If8333UIt2-a2VJYkTLDss4hWM/edit?usp=sharing

  346. @Pittsburgh Thatcherite

    You make a good point, however, IQ does not measure creativity. The Chinese are an ant like people that favor conformity rather than individuality. Also note that the Chinese, in their extensive history have never colonized another land outside of Asia. The one attempt was centuries ago and the ruling order of the time decided it was not in their best interests. Althoguh they could have easily been successful in the venture, the Chinese chose to stay local, an example of their collective non-enterprising nature. All the smarts in the world don’t add up to much without the innovative spirits to create. Also, China has been around for thousands of years, yet before the British exploited the population, they had remained as a peasant society. If they were still isolated, they would still remain in that primitive state of existence. On the other hand, people of European descent rely on no one for advancement.

  347. Seraphim says:
    @Rehmat

    @They were not demonized as god’s (Jesus) killers

    They were not demonized as God’s killers because Muslims are in full accord with the Jews that Jesus is not God.
    They tried even to exculpate the Jews for killing Jesus:

    “That they said (in boast), “We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah”;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-
    Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;-
    — Qur’an, sura 4 (An-Nisa) ayat 157-158

    Incidentally, the Quran quirky affirmation gives the lie to Jews affirmation that they did NOT killed Jesus.
    Yes, Jews and Muslims have been allies in the exploitation of the Christians.

    • Replies: @5371
  348. DB Cooper says:
    @Pittsburgh Thatcherite

    In your graph India have slightly more intelligent people than Russia in absolute number. This cannot be true. Russia should have much more intelligent people than India. Look at the IMO rankings. The two countries are not even close. Note that the IMO ranking is a rough measure of the absolute number of extremely intelligent people. Which is what your graph is conveying.

    • Replies: @Jim
  349. AaronB says:
    @Seraphim

    You can’t say Europeans were very inventive because of rapine and plunder.

    After the Middle Ages, Europeans became inventive because they sought the good life in endless material expansion.

    If that’s your vision of the good life – power, stuff, and gadgets – you’ll get it, if you’re reasonably intelligent and that’s your priority.

    For everyone else, the good life was about spirituality. The ancient Greeks had a very low opinion of technology, and East Asia has a strong spiritual tradition of being anti technology.

    Europeans, after the Middle Ages, were the first ones to reverse this order of value.

    East Asia only adopted the technological world view because they were threatened with enslavement by Europe if they did not. But they did so with reluctance, and never completely.

    I think East Asians today do not excel at creating new technologies because they have not truly organized their life around that purpose. They have kept attitudes and ways of social organization that impede technological innovation and favor emotional and social goals.

    Westerners made a Faustian bagain: power, for happinness. Gain power, but live without value or joy. Today, the West is so disgusted with itself that it is rapidly comitting suicide.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
    , @PandaAtWar
  350. AaronB says:
    @Equalizer

    When you argue with him over which people was more inventive, you validate his Eurocentric values, that endless creation of new technologies is the highest thing any people can do in life.

    This bleak world view has led the West to commit suicide after a few centuries. It is hardly to be envied.

    The West has no future, and even the power they sacrificed everything for is crumbling. It turns out without spiritual foundations, power is ephemeral, yet the quest for endless power destroys spiritual foundations.

    The fate of the modern West, after its demise, should serve as a warning to future generations (and by that I include re-spiritualured European people)

    • Replies: @Equalizer
  351. AaronB says:
    @WhatEvvs

    Thanks for that!

    I fear, however, that it will take the complete collapse of techno-civilization before thinking changes. Materialism is its beating heart.

    Well, a few more decades perhaps 🙂

    • Replies: @WhatEvvs
  352. 5371 says:
    @Seraphim

    The “phantom on the cross” idea was an old tradition among Christian sects uncomfortable with God suffering and dying. Muhammad inherited it from them, he didn’t invent it to exculpate the Jews (which it wouldn’t achieve anyway, since on that showing the Jews would still have the mens rea of deicide).

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  353. Seraphim says:
    @AaronB

    @You can’t say Europeans were very inventive because of rapine and plunder.

    No, of course not. I was explaining how European barbarians became the richest people on the planet and how they came to control most of the world.
    They did indeed commit the sin against the Holy Spirit.

    • Replies: @Marcus
    , @Salger
  354. Seraphim says:
    @5371

    I did not say that they ‘invented’ it, but that they used it.

  355. Equalizer says:
    @AaronB

    Yes, you are right. I was taking my time coming to this same point. Pushing technology without the spiritual connection is a dead end pursue. One rabbi from several hundred years ago (I believe from Eastern Europe) said it best, paraphrasing: “I may have the gift of prophesy, but without morality, it is nothing. I may have the gift of flowery speech, but without morality its nothing. I may have the gift of scholarship and smarts but without morality they are nothing. ” Western peoples gave up their soul to making better and bigger machines and especially killing machines. Conservative whites think that to stop the flood of Muslim immigrants to Europe is through force. They also think that to stop violence from black on white crime is to buy more guns. In truth, these events are happening because they are the inevitable reaction (karma) of their past and present action and their INNER THINKING as well. Just because they spent a million dollars on a housing project for blacks but in their inner thinking they look down on blacks they cannot escape the karmic reaction of their evil thoughts. In Iraq, the white generals deliberately ordered the destruction of the country’s sewage system, a militarily unnecessary decision but only cause civilian suffering. In Christian parlance, the west is facing God’s wrath. Rising eastern peoples like the Chinese and Indians will do well to observe the fate of the west. However, I think that they will do ok. When the Muslim Admiral Zheng He from the Ming navy first saw Africans he respected them and exchanged gifts with them. When the white Europeans first saw Africans, there was this utter sheer arrogance and racism and the thought was to exploit them. This arrogance and racism is still alive as shown by posts from whites in this and other forums. To be balanced, Taha argues that there are also many good spiritually oriented whites. Absolutely true! But all’s well, in Christian parlance: God will sort it out.

    • Replies: @Marcus
    , @colm
    , @Salger
    , @Talha
    , @Salger
  356. colm says:
    @Priss Factor

    The Chinee plays the game with a 300 year horizon.

    Yea, the Chinese girls will marry Jews and other whites and bear half-Jews and half-whites.

    But the boys will be half-Chinese and will not be attractive to other white girls, so they go after Chinee girls like their moms.

    After 300 years, there will be lots of yellow-looking people with Western Surnames and the original Jewish/white blood have diluted to the level of irrelevancy.

    They did that to the nomads ruling Chinee 1500 years, to the Khitans, to the Mongols and the Manchus. After 300 years all these people become Chinee and become minorities.

    Chinee can sacrifice some men. In the longer horizon of time, it knows it will win.

    • Replies: @Seneca
  357. @Pittsburgh Thatcherite

    Exactly. the proportion is so higher that a rational thinker inevitably will ask why so great human ocean has produced so little creative waves, since a long time.

    • Replies: @Santoculto
    , @Ray
  358. Lawrence says:

    Perhaps we should extend this comparison to the Jews of Israel. In addition, perhaps we should distinguish between Ashkenazi Jews and Sephartic Jews.

  359. @Santoculto

    And… China already have greater population since imemorial times, in absolute and relative terms.

    http://ancienthistory.about.com/od/china/qt/030409Chinapop.htm

  360. Marcus says:
    @Equalizer

    Laughable, the Jesuits’ exchange with the Chinese (who thought the world was flat) was completely one-sided.

  361. Marcus says:
    @Equalizer

    However, I think that they will do ok. When the Muslim Admiral Zheng He from the Ming navy first saw Africans he respected them and exchanged gifts with them. When the white Europeans first saw Africans, there was this utter sheer arrogance and racism and the thought was to exploit them.

    Well, duh: He was an envoy, not an explorer or prospector. For great examples of Chinese “respect” for other cultures see the extermination of the Dzungars

    • Replies: @Ray
  362. colm says:
    @Equalizer

    Zheng He, a Muslim eunuch with very little loyalty for the regime who castrated him, did not intend to conquer or anything. Zheng’s chief objective was finding the ex-Emperor Jianwen, who somehow was able to flee when the force of the current Emperor Yongle’s forces were crashing into the Palace, and bring him in front of Yongle so Y could kill J in front of his own eyes and be assured that J was dead.

    After 7 voyages, no news of J was ever heard (and to this day we don’t know what happened to J in the end). So after Y died, the voyage was abandoned.

  363. Marcus says:
    @Seraphim

    Barbarians don’t circumnavigate the world. God, the quality of commentators has really hit rock bottom lately.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  364. Ray says:
    @Unzerker

    Water tight compartment, and rudder are Chinese inventions. Simply compare Zheng He’s fleet to Columbus’s if technology piss matching is what you understand. The earliest mechanical clock is invented in China as well. “The first mechanical clock was completed in China in AD 725 by Yi Xing and Liang Lingzan.” It simply shows how little you know. Read up on Needham’s books and you will know China’s contribution to science and tech development. It is simply too numerous to name.

    And when did China stop using the wheel? China always has had the most efficient wheel borrow in history.

    http://www.howtogeek.com/trivia/the-most-efficient-wheelbarrow-in-the-ancient-world-was-invented-by-the/

    I am not trying to harp how superior the Chinese was or is, but they do have tremendous head starts. However, conversely they also have extremes period of ups and downs and historically they always come back stronger.

  365. Ray says:
    @Santoculto

    Without advanced agriculture, technology and above all else political organization there won’t be a large population. China and India was able to support large population since ancient time because of that. Gun powder, compass, paper making, printing are the precursors needed for modern technology advancement. European racists don’t want to admit it but without the plunders from the rest of the world there wouldn’t be any domination. Just look up how much resources Europe has to import today to maintain the unsustainable standard of living? Even today those 4 ancient Chinese invention or its derivatives are still in use.

    Also, just because many Chinese philosophies, arts and science discoveries are not translated to other languages it doesn’t mean they don’t exist. In fact, it is alive and well in the Sino-phere.

    • Replies: @Marcus
    , @Santoculto
  366. Joanna says:

    No such thing as a ‘Jewish name’.

  367. Ron Unz says:

    Actually, given the extremely long and ongoing comment-thread, some of the readers might find interesting this related article of mine from a few years ago:

    http://www.unz.com/article/how-social-darwinism-made-modern-china-248/

    • Replies: @Ray
    , @Hacienda
    , @Seraphim
  368. Ray says:
    @Marcus

    By making these statement, you are showing your ignorance of history. It seems your head is filled with distorted information instilled by your elite to prolonged their domination.

    First and foremost the Dzungars are actually a part Mongolian tribe organized as a Mongolian Banner under the Qing dynasty. As such they are accorded noble status, like all Mongolian banners in the empire. All banner have the rights to inter marry and has happened in history. Unfortunately, Galdan Boshugtu Khan decided he wanted to be Genghis Khan and want to rule the whole region thus putting him into conflict with all other banners under the Qing. The outcome was almost a certainty, Galdan was defeated and all his followers were executed because it was considered treason. The Dzungars was not killed off, the survivors were split up and organized into other banners.

    If you want to paint the Manchu as ruthless murderers, you simply don’t have the fact for it.

    “A son and a daughter of Galdan remained in Tsewang Araptan’s household along with a lama wanted by the Kangxi Emperor for desertion and for assisting Galdan. In 1698, Tsewang Araptan was forced to deliver the three of them to Beijing along with Galdan’s ashes, which were then scattered on the military parade ground in the city. Although the lama was executed, Kangxi spared the daughter and son, and Galdan’s other son, Septen Bailsur, who had been in prison until this time. They were all pardoned and housed in Beijing where they died.”

    • Replies: @Marcus
  369. Marcus says:
    @Ray

    Who cares? The Chinee have lagged behind for centuries despite flirting with those technologies, they had zero impact on the history of ordinances and printing in the West, whereas in the 19th century they had to start importing Western-made rifles and presses, they couldn’t even start copying them until the 20th century IIRC. To their credit, they often acquitted themselves well as soldiers, e.g. in the Boxer Rebellion.

    • Replies: @Ray
  370. Ray says:
    @Marcus

    Yes, to you. The Qing tried their utmost to come to peace, the Dzungars was treated as one of their own but Galdan collaborated with the Russian empire and attack other tribes. The author of the book actually tried very hard to attribute genocide to the Chinese. However, he was forced to write these:

    “But they have never attempted genocide before.”

    “Large numbers of Dzungars have submitted to the Qing.”

    Compare that to this, which is real genocide with intent and land grabbing.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Removal_Act

    • Replies: @Salger
    , @Salger
  371. Ray says:
    @Marcus

    Of course you don’t care, but why do you keep commenting?

    I think you probably don’t fancy yourself a racist, but you are a closeted bigot nonetheless.

    I don’t know what kind of hole you are from, but based on your argument, China currently being the largest exporter and largest trading nations mean it is the most advanced nation. Human development is not judged solely on this.

    Btw, China is currently the largest producers of advanced 5-axis CNC machine:

    http://www.manufacturingnews.com/news/10/0305/fiveaxis.html

    Also largest user of industrial robot:

    http://www.ifr.org/industrial-robots/statistics/

    • Replies: @Marcus
  372. Ray says:
    @Ron Unz

    Mr Unz,
    Thanks, I have read your very well researched article.

  373. @Ray

    I’m talking about after this period…

    My guess is that what Fukuyama calls the ‘end of history’ ‘, happened in China after its civilizational splendor, that is, after having reached a maximum level of civilization, instead of keeping this rate, it was decreasing, especially with increasing intolerance towards the most visionary, with the difference that there was no other people around that was more powerful to threaten this reign of slow decline.

    I do not believe that without China there would be no civilization in Europe. Remember that time communication between continents was extremely complicated. The exchange was minimal. I believe in a gradual and universal evolution of civilization. Just tell me how that isolated from the rest of the world, pre-Columbian civilizations flourished in such a similar way in relation to the other of Eurasia *

    This type of statement is the Sino-supremacy. I agree that there are many ignorant whites who say the opposite, that without them there would be no civilization in places like India or China.

    • Replies: @Santoculto
    , @Ray
  374. @Santoculto

    Explain me Ray what happened in China from the modern age ** Why stopped being the pioneers in the manufacture of their civilization and stagnated ** This happened for a long time, moreover, it continues to happen, because it was the European industrial civilization that has triumphed the east Asian have just copied what Westerners created especially with the first industrial revolution.

    • Replies: @Ray
  375. Hacienda says:
    @Ron Unz

    Thanks Ron. Terrific read.

  376. Seneca says:
    @colm

    Yes, this is pretty much the long term strategy in my opinion too , with a number of historical examples of this Chinese tendency to support your thesis (which by the way I have previously heard mentioned when the relation between the Chinese and Manchus are discussed by historians).

    People forget that quantity has a quality all its own , and big differences in quantity will allow the large entity to absorb and neutralize the smaller entity eventually . In this case the quantity is not tanks ala Stalin’s famous quote, but people which Mao correctly saw has a strategic advantage (though he saw the advantage in the context of the survivability of a nuclear war not long term genetic and cultural demographics). Like the old saying goes, history belongs to those who show up.

    One historian I have read suggested that the Chinese way of imperialism is not to conquer aggressively like the West, but rather to seep in, mingle, infiltrate and absorb.

    The interesting conflict today is in the area of soft power of Hollywood and its potential to Westernize and subvert Chinese cultural traditions and its emphasis on the family.

    I live in China and teach at its top University, and see plenty of change and Westernization, but the Chinese are aware of this soft power and some of its corrosive anti family negative effects and are taking effective actions to neutralize the most harmful ones. For instance, if you are a Chinese professor who espouses homosexuality or feminism, you are likely to find yourself unemployed unlike in the West where you might be guaranteed tenure and given a position at Harvard or other Ivy league faculty. The Chinese are also producing their own alternatives to Facebook and Twitter and are careful only to allow only a very limited number of foreign films into the country (less than 35). Rap and other corrosive forms of music are not very popular here and the airwaves are filled with sappy love songs and up beat messages, etc…

    In short, in my opinion the worst aspects of the soft power of the West is being effectively neutralized. Mind you I am still an outsider here, so if there are any Chinese citizens reading this please tell me if you think this is true, or am I mistaken?

    • Replies: @colm
  377. Marcus says:
    @Ray

    Well, their future certainly looks better than ours, but Chinese history is full of dynasties collapsing in bloody wars and they have their own minority/immigrant problems.

    • Replies: @Santoculto
  378. Ray says:
    @Santoculto

    Thanks for giving a sensible and well thought out respond. You see, the Chinese and Indian don’t really have this view of ultimate development. Or, in your fine words, reaching civilization splendour. They believe in cycles: bad, good, bad, good and so on. I will comment mostly on Chinese view where I have more study on. For example, the Song, Ming, Qing dynasty etc never considered themselves better than the Han, Tang, Song etc. This is mostly due to a very long recorded history and life outlook.

    However, no civilization ever develop in isolation including, China, India, Europe, Islam and much more. Exchange that is minimal by today’s standard can have huge effect. For one, the introduction of potato, corn, even tobacco brought lifestyle changes throughout the world. Yes, the ancient Chinese came up with gun, compass, paper, printing due to necessity. However, there is no doubt with time and necessity, everyone would be able to come up with them under the right circumstances.

    If a civilization is not adaptable to threat, both foreign and domestic, it would be replaced. China is just one of the many civilizations that is quite adaptable. For one, Chinese teapot designed was based on Babylonian oil lamp. Standardized Chinese abacus was based on Middle Eastern model. I am not saying without China there would be no civilization in Europe. I do meant that by improving upon those 4 inventions, European civilization were able launch their world wide colonization in our timeline. If pre-Columbus civilizations have used guns (either by their own designed or by acquiring Chinese) they would probably have survived. Chinese civilization is big but still received tremendous inputs from around the world. Innovations all comes with a certain circumstances. For example, the Polynesian people came up with the most efficient catamaran design.

    My argument was that China have had a very good head start. Too many people want to equate technological progress with ethnicity, genetics, religion etc. I for one believe in circumstances. I see too many supremacist who profess that European single handedly created modern human civilization.

    • Replies: @Santoculto
    , @PandaAtWar
  379. @Marcus

    Minority ”problems” of chainees is not the problem itself just only that they created for themselves.

    call the tibetans a minority problem to the China is ridiculous at severe level.

    may is the China that is a majority/power problem to them.

    the adoration of the hbd crowd about chainees and jews just show how morally retarded many to most them can be…

    and obviously emphasising the good virtuous chinese people who are against the evil imperialist intentions of their government.

    • Replies: @Marcus
  380. Ray says:
    @Santoculto

    As, I have explain, China has cycles of ups and downs. There is no such things as end of history. Unless, you have a society that has no crime, pain or suffering; humanity still have to so much more room to improve.

    In addition to that, power shift happens all the time. In the 1500s, the richest and most powerful European country is Turkey. In the 1600s, Spain and Portugal but was replaced by Netherlands then UK. By the 1700s France has become a major land power but was quickly replaced by a united Germany. Eventually another major power emerged, Russia.

    I very much doubt your theory of copying. Industrialization cannot simply be copied. From the rise and fall of those European powers I’d mentioned, it is clear that each took a certain path which cannot be replicated by another. Copying is not easy or else Spain would have copied Germany and become the dominant technology power house today. Of course, I believe my statement on Germany as powerhouse would be disputed by those championing France, Russia, or UK or even Italy.

    • Replies: @Santoculto
  381. @Ray

    I also believe in the circumstances, but you can not deny the role of intelligence in all this, it was and will always be crucial, intelligence, or would be better, lighting periods using wisdom and creativity at the right time, for more than appropriate people and with a continuation of this work, that is, the very smart people supporting and enhancing innovation of all natures, creative waves, by successive generations.

    And we know that intelligence is like any other physiological trait, is variably heritable, inheritable, and is marked according to the physiological characteristics in the brain and your hormonal combination (or personality), etc … and we also know that it is genetic, obviously.

    We are confusing the expression of intelligence that is the behavior, with intelligence as a form, as an entity that is primarily physiological, like any other. Smart ones, in a situation of power or Possibility to use their ability to social macro-level, will take advantage of this circumstance making it potentially productive for themselves first, because all creatives works primarily to themself, and then to the others.

    civilization is the product of a perfect marriage sustainable in the long term between the man, his intellect, and the circumstances that surrounding him.

  382. colm says:
    @WhatEvvs

    The only thing is black African women will bear children inheriting half of their IQs which will not make them favorable in the competition.

  383. colm says:
    @Equalizer

    And , the first person to ever catalogue all the wonderful Chinese tech was – Joe Needham, a roundeye.

    The Chinese never had the inclination to catalogue and study their past achievements!

  384. @Ray

    I did not understand what you said. If the Spaniards copied the Germans copied the English, what would be the problem of Chinese and Japanese have copied the European *

    I said so, subliminally metaphoric, because in my view, and can be mistaken, China has experienced a prolonged lull since his last creative wave that happened, correct me if I’m wrong, during middle age in Europe.

    Of course, the English industrial revolution was copied in its base.
    Of course after the nations were introducing their own elements, or not.

    Yes I know that nations have switched positions of power almost frantically throughout human history.

    • Replies: @Ray
  385. WhatEvvs [AKA "Mipchunk"] says:
    @AaronB

    I dunno, I think techno-civ, if it restrains itself to making gadgets, could exist indefinitely. Unfortunately, it will not. I am 99% sure that techno-civ will start to interfere with the genome of the natural world – including that of humanity itself – and that will be curtains. I would prefer not to expand my ideas here.

  386. colm says:
    @Seneca

    What happens is the elite of China does not give a crap about the millions of Chinese men who will die without a mate. They know their lines will live (it is kind of a custom for the powerful of China to have concubines and extramarital children, even now. They are usually sent to North America until they are ready to take important positions back in China)

    I wonder how the children of John Derbyshire will find their mates. The daughter will probably marry a white man. The son will probably find his mate from Asia.

    By the time the Manchu Empire fell, the Manchus were almost indistinguishable from the Chinese, and very few of them ever spoke Manchurian at all. Even in Manchuria itself.

  387. Ray says:
    @Santoculto

    What I meant was that industrialization cannot be copied, because each country has its own different circumstances. That’s why I say Spain cannot simply copy Germany and become like the latter, it is impossible. Germany already has a head start and if Spain do the same it will fail, it has to come up with something that Spain has advantage of to pull ahead.

    Intelligent is important but industrialization requires more than that. As my rise and fall of European powers example shown, historical circumstances play an even more important role. If you use intelligent to explain why Spain was the earliest modern European power it cannot explain the whole matter. For example, can we use intelligence to explain why Germany is ahead currently. Why was it backward in 1500s? It doesn’t mean Spaniards were less intelligent than Germans or vice versa. It is also not simply on intelligent that Germany, Russia, UK, Turkey etc managed to become a major power.

    China in the 1300s to 1800s have long period of peace so they do not need to improve gun technology, the government didn’t like Chinese going overseas so they ban ships with more than 3 masts. As such there is little technological improvement in this area. However, in luxury goods manufacturing China is very much ahead because there is a huge demand. For example, they make the best silk, porcelain, wine, tea, furniture etc. And on the cultural fields, they produced poetry, paintings and plays such as Journey to the West, Three Kingdoms, Red Mansion which is still popular today. Chinese elite were interested only in hand made luxury craft.

    • Replies: @Santoculto
  388. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    “What happens is the elite of China does not give a crap about the millions of Chinese men who will die without a mate.”

    It’s sink or swim.

    • Replies: @colm
  389. colm says:
    @Anon

    Indeed. In polite words it is called “natural selection”. In a more frank terms, it is ‘Social Darwinism”.

    China practiced it for millennia. The bright sons of the poor became eunuchs to serve in the Palace, making sure their talents get used and their genes do not pollute the elite bloodlines, preventing the regression to the mean. The eunuchs were expected to support their promising nephews (if any) to continue their family’s success, but usually an eunuch family’s fortunes quickly turned south after the powerful eunuch died, showing regression to the mean is true.

    Only the sons of local gentry were eligible to take the Imperial Exams to become a powerful man, since the local magistrate had to approve someone to take them which usually involved large bribes. The system was actually encouraged to keep away undesirable people and parvenus from power.

  390. Jim says:
    @Priss Factor

    At the height of their power the Mongols were the richest people on Earth. However war loot is not a renewable resource. You can pillage a city once. That by the way was a basic problem with the Roman Empire. As long as they had new places with wealth to conquer they were very successful.

    They were able to finance most all of their conquests by loot without having to levy taxes. But after the conquest of southern Britain the places left to conquer either had no wealth like Germany or were too strong like the Persians. After the conquest of Britain the Roman Empire became more and more a liability over time. Eventually it didn’t make any economic sense to defend it.

    So a nation can become rich by plunder but it cannot stay rich by plunder alone.

  391. Jim says:
    @gwynedd1

    US Ashkenazi Jews average about 112 compared to about 102 in Northwestern Europe grading down to less than 95 in Southeastern Europe. Average IQ in Japan is about 107 and in South Korea is about 108. The psychometric data from China is heavily drawn from urban areas of Eastern China which no doubt have higher IQ’s than the total Han population. More representative data from China would be desirable but I don’t doubt that the average Han IQ is significantly above 100. The average world IQ is less than 90.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  392. Jim says:
    @DB Cooper

    The population of India has a very complicated genetic structure so the normal distribution may not fit them as well. Also because of the huge and varied nature of the population the existing psychometric data may not be sufficiently representative.

  393. Seraphim says:
    @Marcus

    How about the Brits, the foremost example?

  394. Seraphim says:
    @Ron Unz

    Thank you for this re-injection of common sense. But I am afraid that some people are immune, as their responses (Who cares?) show. But who really cares for them?

  395. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    After 400 comments, I’m convinced of one thing.

    White people are terrified that Asians will supplant them as the most advanced/richest people of the world.

    Whites are so terrified because they have spent the last 400 years climbing over the backs of other people’s to reach the top, that they cannot comprehend a future where white people will be lumped in with brown and black people as mediocre and poor.

    So when talking about Asians, you cannot expect white people to use logic or common sense in discussions. The vast majority of what you hear are white people hating on Asians because that is all they have left to fight with.

    • Replies: @pink_point
    , @Salger
  396. Seraphim says:
    @Jim

    The Eastern China has a population of about 400 million!

  397. @Anonymous

    It’s not that satisfactory or useful-feeling when 75% of comments on the Internet are self-helping psychoanalytically-banal tantrum-throwing sessions who only help their authors, through externalized projection, to feel a tad batter.

    Basically, comments section are a costless replacement for a psychoanalyst.

  398. Reed,

    I have The Bonfire of Vanities on my hands.

    Let me quote from the introduction:

    Yet by 1962, when Steinbeck won the Nobel Prize, young writers, and intellectuals generally, regarded him ans his approach to the novel as an embarassment. […] Faulkner and Hemingway still commanded respect, but it was the respect you give to old boys who did the best they could with what they knew in their day. They were ‘squares’ (John Gardner’s term) who actually thought you could take real life and spread it across the pages of a book. They never comprehended the fact that a novel is a sublime literary game.

    All serious young writers — serious meaning those who aimed for literary prestige — understood such things, and they were dismantling the realistic novel just as far as they could think of ways to do it. The dividing line was the year 1960. Writers who went to college after 1960… understood. For a serious young writer to stick with realism after 1960 required contrariness and courage.

    All the novel, and the introduction likewise, are dedicated to the dissolution of man, who ceases to exist since he ceases to have faith in his existence, to think of his existence as real.
    It goes parallel with the “great liberation” of the 1960’s (which Wolfe names ‘a lurid carnival’).

    IQ aside, the reason for Jewish students did better than the white after the 1960’s was because if they didn’t behave and the teacher berated them, their parents, unlike white people’s, would berate them more instead of picking a quarrell with the teacher.
    They are doing it less and less. Achievement is decreasing.
    Achievement as we knew it in the past was a result of tradition, the institutions of traditions: family, parenthood, the traditional way of rising the youth, based on rewards and sanctions alike, in turn based on the idea that there is good and bad, right and wrong.

    Asians are still more in the cultural realm of tradition. Unlike Western intellectuals from the second half of the 20th century, they still believe in reality. If you believe in reality, you still have purposes. Reasons to take pains for your goals.

    Achievement and liberty aren’t on specially good terms, in other words. Liberty is the dissolution factor. It lets people free to experiment with everything, get disillusioned with everything, convinced that everything is nothing, and feeling there are no goals left ahead of them.

    Depression replaces neurosis. From Kafka and Musil on, the Western man is a man who can’t take action anymore (because he feels it changes nothing if he does or doesn’t).

  399. @Ray

    Ray, while Panda appreciates the bulk of your argument, do NOT bind “China” and “India” together in one breath, cuz that is only the deliberately orchestrated bullshit by the Western MSM to contain PRC’s rise by Divide&Conquer taking advantage of a) ignorance of the mass, and b) the inferiority conplex and stupidity of the mass residing in a modern country called “India”.

    Historically, this has been very wrong:

    1. There is no “China”, which is merely the Anglonised version of Persian word, but only the Central Kingdom. which has been by and large a united land for 2,000 years, with by and large the same people, the same culture, the same philospghy, the same mentality…

    2. “India” was just a geographic concept in history until post WW2(some will argue till today). There was no “India” as a nation or a single unity historically, but by and large >2 dozens of small tribes and kingdoms with different people, cultures, philosophies, religions and mentalities who happened to reside in the same Sub Continent.

    For about a decade Western MSM has deliberately faked and merged these two drastically different concepts of historical “China”and “India” in one breath for its own strategic end. Do not fall for it.

    Actually the Central Kingdom (now PRC) and the Subcontinent ( now by and large “India”) have been almost polar opposite to each other in almost all aspects being culture, language, mentality, philosophy, sophitication of economy & technology, race, worldview, history, literature, music… you name it. Pre-Industrial China was a world leader in technology for a looong time, but name me 1 world-leading technology that worths noting came from so called “historical India”. Without high tech, where the heck “world leading agricutural economy” came from in the pre-Industrial world, except the tropic weather that can either grow or kill any plant? Think about it! The common ground shared between China(Chinese) and India(Indians) has been about less than that between England(Brits) and Somalia (Somalis) actually – at least many Somalis could be classified as Caucasoid, the same as the Brits.

    And Buddhism, in case someone would jump up and down here, is not a good example at all. The original Buddhism from the Nepalis (now credit goes to “India”, yeah right) was a drastically different animal from the mainstream Buddhism that the world knows today (indeed “Chan Buddhism”, a brandnew philosopghical breed with Confucism Ru Jia and Daoism, from the Central Kingdom to its immediate Eastern Asian peripheral from Korea, Japan to Vietnam).

    BTW, one of the most retarded yet generally accepted (by the mass) propaganda from the Western MSM on “China”and “India” goes like “…according to xxx economists, that historically China and India together accounted for Y% of the world’s GDP, OMG, therefore blah blah”. ROFL! yeah right, historically China and (fill in pretty much any name you like) together accounted for about Y% of the world’s GDP as well, therefore blah blah too? LMAO!

    • Replies: @Hacienda
    , @Ray
  400. @AaronB

    …East Asia has a strong spiritual tradition of being anti technology.

    Hardly. There are many other major factors here.

    Traditional Han Chinese invented and massively adopted many top tech in the world.

    Other major factors(assume everything else being equal):

    1. Need/hunger:

    i). geography

    China was united since very early on with no powerful adversaries in her immediate geograpghy after settling down issues with the northern normads such as Huns, Mongols etc. Hence the Han Chinese society from top down and bottom up had no much urge to develop technological innovations at the speed of, for instance, fragmented and constantly in-fighting tiny European kingdoms for survival.

    A misleading Western MSM line here is that “Japan was China’s historical archie enermy”. Bullshit. Historically (except the last 150 years after Japan’s industrialisation) Japan’s threat to China was about Iceland’s threat to the Roman Empire.

    ii). social attitude

    Confuciunism social values rank being a classic literature scholar, a caligrapher, or a poet much more than being a technician (the major source of tenological innovations), a musician(taken as a sort of entertainer) and a merchant. The bluk of the top brains of the Han Chinese society had been therefore attracted to be scholars.

    Another misleading Western MSM line here is “the Chinese are historically good merchants” as if being a merchant has been valued highly and popular in classic Chinese society. True, the Chinese have been good at it, but that’s just for survival. The matter of the fact is that being a merchant ranks at the bottom of the classic Confuicius social order and was despised upon by both the elites and the mass – this refutes another Western MSM bullshit that “the Chinese are innately materialistic and have no souls”. In fact, the classic Chinese were amongst world’s leaders of anti-materialistic and were, and still are, very spiritual.

    2. per capita economical resources at hand

    Everything else being equal, the richer an individual is, the more results he will show on technogical innovations. After that there will be snowball-effect.

    – The old Europe would have had much less technogically innovations without South American silviers & gold.

    – The US will have drastically less technogical innovations if take a zero , or two, off her gdp/cap, or off her annual R&D budget.

    – South Koreans have much more technogical innovations than the their Northern twins under the dear leader, because South Koreans are much more richer on gdp/cap(also on top of Snowball Effect ) , not because they have much higher avg IQ or have much more black magic “innovative abilities” than thier Northern kins.

    The similar could explain the bulk of the technological innovation differences between the West and China in the last 300 years.

    • Replies: @Ray
    , @AaronB
  401. @Ray

    What I meant was that industrialization cannot be copied, because each country has its own different circumstances. That’s why I say Spain cannot simply copy Germany and become like the latter, it is impossible. Germany already has a head start and if Spain do the same it will fail, it has to come up with something that Spain has advantage of to pull ahead.

    Of course, the English industrial revolution was copied in its base.

    If you innovate if you invent, then you will not copy, or at least will improve what already exists. Of course, the English industrial revolution was copied IN ITS BASE.

    Of course, the circumstances are not the same. The Spain of the nineteenth century was a pretty backward country. Germany was not unified until the middle of this century. Italy also was not unified, it was unified only two decades after Germany, superficially similar circumstances, and it only really started its industrialization from fascism in the 20s.

    We have socio-economic classes, especially the nobility and the bourgeoisie among the upper classes. Possibly also because of previous selective pressures in England, France and Germany, there was a demographic swelling of their respective bourgeoisies and that can be seen through the increase of their political powers. The emergence of the bourgeois class in the middle ages was the kick-off to the emergence of modernity in Europe. The population growth of a socio-economic and cultural class subsequently, result in its progressive domination in society. One of the reasons of course, i think.

    and just look to the jewish people, they are very burgeois too.

    Intelligent is important but industrialization requires more than that. As my rise and fall of European powers example shown, historical circumstances play an even more important role. If you use intelligent to explain why Spain was the earliest modern European power it cannot explain the whole matter. For example, can we use intelligence to explain why Germany is ahead currently. Why was it backward in 1500s? It doesn’t mean Spaniards were less intelligent than Germans or vice versa. It is also not simply on intelligent that Germany, Russia, UK, Turkey etc managed to become a major power.

    But you can not take the credit for intelligence. You’re talking about people versus people but I think it is more specific as in all complex human societies a small fraction of the population that will dominate and rule the destiny of nations. Therefore, rather than talk about who is more or less intelligent, we need to focus on their elites. All cognitive elites of all countries are equal ** No.

    However, even a smart elite requires a large proportion of intelligent people that they can sustain high levels of technological and social civilization. So if you have an imperialist project but does not have a large proportion of creative geniuses and all kinds of smart (immoral, read) at your disposal, then it is likely that your project will not be sustainable for a long time, especially if you are in competition with other groups.

    However, do not forget that for the Spaniards could dominate, they needed creative geniuses to build your invincible armada, diplomacy … within the nobility. The England started using pirates to undermine the Spanish naval power. Every great human action has as main cause his intelligence (intelligence, generally speaking). The intelligence is the g factor of behavior, especially among humans. We do not expect luck, we adapt to it or not.

    Of course, because of our will capacity, although far from being totally free, we can build circumstances, large-scale, unprecedented in nature, as most other forms of life can not do it conscious way ”we can.

    China in the 1300s to 1800s have long period of peace so they do not need to improve gun technology, the government didn’t like Chinese going overseas so they ban ships with more than 3 masts. As such there is little technological improvement in this area. However, in luxury goods manufacturing China is very much ahead because there is a huge demand. For example, they make the best silk, porcelain, wine, tea, furniture etc. And on the cultural fields, they produced poetry, paintings and plays such as Journey to the West, Three Kingdoms, Red Mansion which is still popular today. Chinese elite were interested only in hand made luxury craft.

    Precisely why I said that China experienced a period of fukuyamesque ‘end of history’ ‘. 😉

    • Replies: @Ray
  402. Hacienda says:
    @PandaAtWar

    Easy. Indians are a sweet people. Be nice.

    • Replies: @PandaAtWar
  403. @Hacienda

    oke, be nice > be correct, and being correct is not nice.

    Who are a sour people btw? LoL

  404. Salger says:
    @Anonymous

    Tell me more on how only Whites had slavery and war.

    Also, you’re a crackpot.

  405. Salger says:
    @Ray

    The Qing DINDU NUFFIN!

  406. Salger says:
    @Equalizer

    When the white Europeans first saw Africans, there was this utter sheer arrogance and racism and the thought was to exploit them.

    Here we see an anti-White blaming Whitey for slavery.

    Also, save your mumbo jumbo for dindu immigrants.

  407. Salger says:
    @Seraphim

    Unlike the peaceful Redskins with their weapons and raping, Indians with their caste system, Ottomans with their slavery, etc.

  408. Marcus says:
    @Santoculto

    I don’t think Tibetans are much of a problem, more like the southern and northwestern regions

    • Replies: @Santoculto
  409. Salger says:
    @Seraphim

    When do you plan to leave for a non-White nation?

  410. Salger says:
    @Equalizer

    Minorities like Blacks are fatter, have significantly lower IQs, and have worse academic performances accounting for minority pandering policies than Europeans in America. But you’re anti-White so you’re ignore this.

  411. Salger says:
    @AaronB

    I’m sure some 80s IQ Illegal on gibs is totally equal in intellect to the likes of Steven Pinker.

  412. Salger says:
    @Equalizer

    [It’s not good policy to spew forth large numbers of non-substantive comments that add little to the discussion. Too many and they’ll just be trashed.]

    Talk to muslims and Asians and they are generally friendly. They care for their families. Talk to white people, often its about “me, me me”.

    Is that what pushes Muslims to sexually assault European girls, chimpout at dogs and ads with attractive women, and protest cartoons with Muhammed.

    No matter how white make themselves important and claim to be able to think for themselves, new immigrants are amused that whites follow government guidelines for diet, guidelines for terror alerts, guidelines from western doctors, guidelines for this and that, all without any critical thinking.

    Meanwhile Dindus, Pajeets, and Kebabs follow what a warlord pedophile says.

  413. @Marcus

    Of course not because they showed little resistence to the ”chainee communism”

    ”Chainee communism” IS the problem.

  414. @Equalizer

    Your supposed higher moral superiority is in fatal contradiciton when you said this

    But in the end the humanity of middle easterners, Asians, natives and blacks will win over the robotic machine creativeness of the whites.

    You over-idealize non-whites as if they were the wise thinkers who avoid technology and as if they think for themselves… and whites were the otherwise pole.

    JUST a someone who self-define as a ”muslim”, show for us that this person is not a superior thinker

    real thinkers have few and/or deeper cultural labels.

    without any SELF-critical thinking is not**

    😉

    • Replies: @Salger
  415. Art says:

    The Jews are dishonest smart and aggressive smart – they know how to manipulate words and money for power over people – end of story.

    Jews value those negative traits. They use the word clever. That is a nice way to say “dishonest.”

  416. Ray says:
    @PandaAtWar

    The reason I do that is because China and India are the two largest civilization in Asia. And they account for pretty more than half of humanity for the last two, three thousand years. And if you go back in time, say four thousand years ago the two societies have more similarity than dissimilarity. For one both are agrarian serf society with a rigid class where the religious leaders and warrior sit on top. Both civilization are separate into self governing state with its own hereditary feudal family. However, social and more importantly government structure divert tremendously when Qin reunited China while India stay as loose feudal states. Basically, it is only from Qin dynasty onward that China and India differ tremendously. When I am talking of social similarity I am not saying that the dress, food, custom is the same. They are very different but in life outlook and social structure, quite similar. Of course after Qin, Chinese society pretty much do away with belief of noble birth, and India’s core belief is still religion, namely something we called Hinduism. (Hinduism is another English word that has no equivalent in India).

    1. Every serious scholar know China is an English version of Qin from ancient Greece or Persia. Although some Eastern Slav language call China, Khitai which give the English version Cathay. You are right in that Chinese never called themselves that or China as their land. I am using it for convenience sake. To be exact, Zhong Guo should be translated as Central State. Its earliest use was by Zhou dynasty to identify itself relative to its feudal states. Zhong can be translated as Middle or Central. In this case Central is actually the better translation as it is geographical and the Zhou state occupy a central position. Guo being translated as Kingdom is definitely not accurate, as during Zhou time only the Zhou/Central State has a king while other Guo(State) has only duke, marquis, baron etc. However, ancient Chinese rarely use Zhong Guo, rather use a more abstract concept Tian Xia “Under Heaven”. They also never called themselves Zhong Guo Ren until the Qing falls. Before that it was Han people, Tang people etc. For example, China Town when written in Chinese is “Tang People Street”.

    2. I must say that is actually partially correct because since a few thousand years ago the Indian already has this concept called Bharata. And India was on and off united by a stronger kingdom or empire. For example Mauryan Empire, Mughal Empire etc. Of course unlike Qin, they never set about uniting the writing script, road, measurement and most importantly abolished regional hereditary ruling family. This is why Qin is such an important dynasty because it united the Chinese people as one country. However, period of separation did happen and lasted 500 years or so for the last two thousands years. Example, Three Kindom, 5 Hu 16 State, 5 Dynasty 10 State period etc. Thanks for your advice on MSM but I want to remind you of the same. the reason so little is known about Indian is also because of MSM too. We only heard of Yoga, Buddhism, Hinduism etc from them. However, like I have said on another respond, India also have achieved agricultural revolution like China. If not, the civilization won’t be able to support such huge population.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Indian_inventions_and_discoveries

    Siddhārtha Gautama should still be classified as an Indian because his birth place is in modern day India while he achieved enlightenment in Nepal. Also don’t mistook the under development of modern India as perpetual. China a hundred years ago was in a worse developmental state. Chinese culture benefited greatly from Indian philosophies and wisdom. For example, the phrase “World”(世界) came from Buddhism concept, quite a few Chinese words come from Sanskrit influence. Another one “Split Second” (一刹那) and quite a few which change Chinese perception of life like karma, reincarnation etc. You could argue Chan Buddhism is formulated in China but Buddhism is a belief based on Hinduism. It is just a matter of time that India achieve greatness again.

  417. Ray says:
    @Santoculto

    This is what you believe but is not the reality. There is no such things as end of history. Unless, you have a society that has no crime, pain or suffering; humanity still have to so much more room to improve.

    The latter is the motivation for Confucian.

    You also do not understand the concept of historical and circumstances in human development and keep harping on intelligent. So by your count which European country is the most intelligent and which is the least?

    • Replies: @Santoculto
  418. Ray says:
    @PandaAtWar

    I want to add one thing. You must use “reverse thinking”(逆向思维) when trying to deal with the values imposed by MSM. For example they harped on how rich the ROK is relative to the DPRK. However, if you look at it on another level, they are simply trumpeting a nicely made-up and dressed prostitute compare to a stoic warrior who is a real threat to them.

    Also don’t believe that success in luxury goods as a sign of prowess. This is what most of Europe has now. GDP measures without context is meaningless. The example I quote is 4 years out of date though.

    http://www.financialsense.com/contributors/dan-collins/american-gdp-the-fantastic-fiction-of-american-economic-strength

  419. Priss Factor [AKA "Dominique Francon Society"] says: • Website

    Has China produced anyone of Newton or Feynman’s caliber?

    Ever? Will it ever?

    Nuff said.

  420. AaronB says:
    @PandaAtWar

    I was clearly talking about more recent times, so past conditions aren’t relevant, and I was talking about East Asia as a whole, so material conditions unique to China also aren’t relevant.

    China’s warring states period didn’t result in anything comparable to Europe’s technological explosion. For that matter, endemic warfare among small states in ancient Greece also didn’t produce anything like it. Lots of places had those conditions without those results, so I’m reminded of Jared Diamonds explanation for European exceptionalism. Diamond also sought the answer in conditions that were not unique to Europe.

    Now, technologies, once invented, will spread because of military necessity, as was the case with Japan, but that’s another matter.

    I couldn’t agree with you more about the nature and role of Confucianism, but isn’t that consistent with my point? Chinese culture was literally obsessed with the literary and the aesthetic, and was not very interested in technology, despite, as you say, being pretty decent at it. Its all the more remarkable that today the Chinese are so technology oriented, because it’s such a break with their culture. I like to point this out to people who think that Chinese are intensically technology obsessed.

    As I pointed out, I think the modern Asian love affair with technology is contingent and ephemeral. It doesnt go very deep, it is essentially a crisis response, and it won’t last.

    Oh, you’re forgetting Taoism and appreciation for nature as deep sources of Chinese hostility to technology.

    I agree with you that being a merchant was never a primary Chinese value, and I am also fully in agreement with you that the old Chinese culture was one of the world’s least materialistic and most spiritusal.

    Which is why it’s so tragic that China is now making all the worst mistakes of the Industrial Revolution. If any country could have been expected to have responded diffetently, it was China.

    “Everything else being equal” – this can be said of everything. If you discount all factors but one, the remaining factor is determining. All else being equal, IQ matters most. All else being equal, population size matters most. All else being equal, coal deposits matter most.

    Spain and Portugal benefitted most from New World gold and silver, yet did little with it. England was a cold and barren land yet launched the Scientific Revolution.

    Post hoc explanations are so easy to make. Poor countries are innovative because they are hungry, no rich countries are, because they have leisure and money, countries at war innovative most because they want to win, no, countries at peace do, because they have more free time.

    Material explanations are always so heavily contingent and compromised: personally I believe spiritual forces are key to understanding these developements, but I am in an extreme minority.

    • Replies: @Ray
    , @Talha
    , @PandaAtWar
    , @Art
  421. @Ray

    This is what you believe but is not the reality. There is no such things as end of history. Unless, you have a society that has no crime, pain or suffering; humanity still have to so much more room to improve.

    The latter is the motivation for Confucian.

    You also do not understand the concept of historical and circumstances in human development and keep harping on intelligent. So by your count which European country is the most intelligent and which is the least?

    You would be kind enough to refute point by point **

    This way is easier to know if you could understand what I meant and therefore can actually build a counter-response, spectrally appropriate, or spectrally logical in relation to my arguments.

    I think you do not understand anything.

    End of history was a metaphor.

    If you think I did not understand then explain.

    To say

    ” I think you do not understand ”

    this is a personal opinion.

    It will become an argument from ” because ”…

    If you could understand what I wrote in my last comment, you realize that this question that you put does not make sense.

  422. DB Cooper says:
    @Ray

    “They [Indians and Chinese] are very different but in life outlook and social structure, quite similar.”

    What a total nonsense. You mean Chinese has Caste, bride burning, Sati,…and all that?

    “For example Mauryan Empire, Mughal Empire etc.”

    Nonsense again. Mauryan empire myth was created by a British orientalist by the name of James Prinsep during the times of the British Raj based on some stones found here and there and a lot of imaginations. The myth was sustained by the British Raj for political reason because they found that it is almost impossible to govern disparage people with no affinity to each other and are separated into different communities by ethnic, religious, Caste, language, history and cultural ties. The Mauryan myth serves to create a national narrative to aid British rule. Curiously the extent of the Mauryan empire roughly coincides with the British empire in South Asia at that time. If the Mauryan empire ever exist it will be very odd because its descendants seems to have no historic memory of such empire ever exists until the British came. It will be like the Greek have not heard of Alexander or the Persians have not heard of Darius or the Europeans have not heard of Julius Caesar until told by some outsiders thousands years later.

    If the British never came India (a unified polity encompassing the subcontinent) would have never exist.

    • Replies: @DB Cooper
  423. DB Cooper says:
    @DB Cooper

    By the way the Indian intellectuals of the time of the British Raj scorned this Mauryan empire narratives because they saw through this is yet another colonial duplicities. Nowadays of course it is resurrected by the Indian government because now it serves its purpose.

  424. Ray says:

    “Basically, it is only from Qin dynasty onward that China and India differ tremendously. When I am talking of social similarity I am not saying that the dress, food, custom is the same. They are very different but in life outlook and social structure, quite similar. Of course after Qin, Chinese society pretty much do away with belief of noble birth, and India’s core belief is still religion, namely something we called Hinduism. (Hinduism is another English word that has no equivalent in India). “

    Don’t quote me out of context, read the whole paragraph. I was talking about historical society that existed four thousands to two thousands years ago. How much do you know about China and India during those period? The key words are life outlook and social structure.

    During Shang time, it is common to have human sacrifice to accompany the dead. It lessen in Zhou but still existed. Made no mistake about it, and large scale slaves and untouchables existed. It is the Qin that dismantled the old social structure. Before that a noble can kill a lower class person with little repercussion. The Qin reform meant that even a prince has to follow the same law as a commoner, and a slave can free himself by merit. This is the greatest contribution of Qin reform.

    Because according to that definition, the Xia dynasty and Greek historical figures also also doesn’t exist because not even stones or tombs have been found. Nothing written by Socrates survived. Look up on the works of a Chinese monk Faxian (337 – c. 422), he gave a good account of the Mauryan Empire which is know as the Peacock Dynasty. You could doubt the existence of the empire but what about the existence of Ashoka, an emperor like that couldn’t appear out of no where. There is concrete evidence that he sent out Buddha’s relics to believers across the region:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relics_associated_with_Buddha

    “In 2010 remains of Gautama Buddha’s skull were enshrined at Qixia Temple in Nanjing. The partial bone had been held in the Pagoda of King Ashoka, constructed in 1011 under the former Changgan Temple of Nanjing. In 1987 a chamber was unearthed below Famen temple and a finger bone said to belong to Gautama Buddha was discovered. In 2003 the finger bone was one of 64 culturally significant artifacts officially prohibited from leaving China for exhibitions. In 2009, the relic was enshrined in the world’s tallest stupa recently built within the domains of Famen Temple.

    Two bone fragments believed to belong to Gautama Buddha are enshrined at Yunju temple. According to Tang Dynasty records, China had 19 pagodas of King Ashoka holding Sakyamuni’s relics. Seven of these pagodas are believed to have been found. Currently the tooth relic is kept in Beijing while the knuckle of the middle finger is at Xi’an city Shaanxi province.”

    • Replies: @DB Cooper
    , @Makran
  425. Ray says:

    Can any country produced a scientist as life changing as Yuan Longping?

    A modest man who shared his discovery with the rest of the world saving millions of life. If he is to be a scientist in today’s Europe or US. All his knowledge would be controlled by corporation and every single cents milked out from the poor in the world.

    Many more to come.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuan_Longping

    • Replies: @colm
  426. DB Cooper says:
    @Ray

    I am not disputing that throughout the history in the subcontinent there are many petty kingdoms and princely states, of which Asoka is probably but one. What I am saying is that this mythical Mauryan empire with a territory that spans pretty much the whole of present day India except the southern part and extending west into Persian and north into Afghanistan simply does not exist because it is not substantiated by any other evidence.

    Present day Indian rulers find this myth convenient because it corroborates with the notion of ‘Akhand Bharat’ that gives India the ‘historic’ rationale for regional hegemony.

    • Replies: @Ray
  427. Ray says:
    @AaronB

    Comparing the warring states 250 BC to events that happened 1,000 years or more later is simply ridiculous. The late Zhou period saw the invention of crossbow, stirrup, steel, standardized production, the last didn’t happen in Europe until at least 18th century. However, that still pale in comparison to the ideas and thoughts that came about from that period.

    Can you tell me exactly how you measure which society is more interest in technology?

    You are mistaken in regard to Daoism. This is actually the school that produced nearly all the technological advances in ancient China. From gun powder, chemical, mathematics, medicine and astronomy.

    A lot of people talk of culture as if it is uniform across a civilization or country, it is not. People varies greatly within a nation. One people can be as flawed as any one, the difference is how the so-called power elite organize the society. This is probably the only point that should be discuss. When one concentrate on superficial attributes such as culture, religion, geography or even intelligent etc. The big picture is lost.

    “Spain and Portugal benefitted most from New World gold and silver, yet did little with it. England was a cold and barren land yet launched the Scientific Revolution.”

    I have to say I have to disagree strongly with the above statement. The Spaniard and Portuguese pioneered advanced sea going ships, sailing technique and even gun technology like arquebus. More importantly the Spanish introduced modern military formation like the marine. All of which the British improved upon. On top of it England also make profit initially from trade than from the raids (considered piracy by the Spanish) on Spanish ships which helps England’s economy. Even Spanish achievement are built on earlier pioneers.

    Technological progress is like a building block. Just because one built the 10th floor, doesn’t mean he is a superior engineer to the other engineers that built the 1st to 9th floor. All the argument that says the European are so superior technologically based their argument on it.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  428. Ray says:
    @DB Cooper

    I understand what you mean. National borders changes all the time. At least India has a semblance of an empire 2,000 years ago. Not too many modern state can claim that, is it?

    Yes, border issue can be super dicey. There is simply no clear parameters to decide. In South Asia it is still a hot issue today. Modern India definitely owes it existence to British colonization but it still have complicated links to its ancient past.

    • Replies: @DB Cooper
  429. colm says:
    @Ray

    Mr. Yuan made his discovery on 1970 when Chairman Mao was still alive.

    So he probably didn’t do it on his own accord. He later did win a sizable amount of prize money for his troubles.

    His chinese wiki says his older son now runs a company called “Anhui Yuan’s Agricultural Development Limited Company”, and younger sun runs a firm called “Longping High-science Stock and Real Estate Investment Company”, not exactly signs of the humble.

  430. DB Cooper says:
    @Ray

    “At least India has a semblance of an empire 2,000 years ago. ”

    This is exactly what I am saying it is NOT. Historically a unified polity in South Asia has never existed until the British came. Even the British has never really unified what is today’s India. British Raj basically connects all the contiguous territory along the railway it built along the coast. The hinterland was never under the British rule. When the British left the scene in 1947 there were still some 500 princely states that were never under the jurisdiction of the British Raj. It took a certain Patel, known as the iron man of India to put all the princely states under the control of the new regime in New Delhi. Hyderabad for example continue to exist as an independent entity for one year after August 1947.

    Historically the people in South Asia feels like they live in a continent rather than as a citizen in a country. There is no sense of a national identity call Indian. This is a totally foreign concept that has no historical basis in the subcontinent. Even Gandhi identified himself as a Gujarati than an Indian. The first time the notion that he is an Indian came to him when he was classified as one when he aboard a train in South Africa.

    India is hardly unique in this aspect. There are many post colonial states that has no national identity before until it was created after WWII following a wave of de-colonializations. India does have the advantage that geographically it is hemmed in on both sides and the north is capped by the impregnable Himalayan’s. This made it harder for India to be influenced by neighbor’s geopolitics and thus harder to breakup than many of the other artificial states in the Middle East.

    • Replies: @Ray
  431. Talha says:
    @AaronB

    If any country could have been expected to have responded diffetently, it was China.

    Perhaps, but millions paid in blood to be taught a new way to live – Mao’s re-education of society on dialectical materialism was not without its price in thousands of pounds of flesh. Hopefully they will get back to their roots prior to the ‘revolution’.

    Similar strain happened in Uzbekistan (a place where one of my spiritual teachers traveled). The Communists were brutal in their repression of Islam (not that they took it easy on the Orthodox Christians). That area was full of a very pious and spiritual people (for instance the Khwajagan) and it is just recently starting to reconstitute itself.

    You have to give them (anyone that was under the boot of the Communists) a little break in this regard – their history in relinquishing their spirituality is not necessarily a voluntary one as it was with other peoples.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  432. Seraphim says:
    @Ray

    @Every serious scholar know China….

    The problem is that the people who babble about China (or any subject, for that matter) are not ‘serious scholars’, not even something remotely close to scholarship.

    @Siddhārtha Gautama should still be classified as an Indian because his birth place is in modern day India while he achieved enlightenment in Nepal

    I am afraid that it is the other way round. Buddha was born in Lumbini [which]”is situated at the foothills of the Himalayas in modern Nepal”, where archaeologists have uncovered evidence of the oldest Buddhist shrine yet discovered, dating to around 550 B.C., more than a century earlier than dates accepted by many scholars, closer to the Nepalese tradition that places the birth of Buddha at 623 B.C.
    He achieved enlightenment in India, at Bodh Gaya in Maghada (today’s Bihar), where he preached. Both greatest Indian Empires (Maurya, Gupta) originated in Maghada. It appears that Buddhism is not based on ‘Hinduism’, but rather extraneous to it, the reason why eventually was rejected from India. It is much closer to Taoism, the reason why it strived in the Middle Kingdom and its peripheries.
    But of course, to clarify these problems requires scholarship (preferably serious).

    • Replies: @Ray
  433. Ray says:
    @DB Cooper

    If you use this standard, India should be split up and pretty much every non single ethnicity nation state as well. My argument all along is that India still has Bharati concept to fall back on. What about every country in North & South America, Europe, Africa, Asia? With many same tribe split across nations. They are pretty much all colonial creation. However, every single one now have to find some historical lineage to fall upon to create notion of citizenship, or else it will be chaos. Most of their common lineage weaker than Bharati concept.

    The example you point out is true, the same even apply to China. Of course these two giant of a country didn’t exist 2000 years ago in its present form but they are still way ahead in term of cohesiveness than pretty much all those countries mentioned. Not too long ago Southern states in the US fought a bloody civil war for succession. Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia no longer existed. Is Spain, Belgium, UK next too split up? All these countries have less historical reason to stay as one country than India. 1000 years ago Burgundy and Normandy barely considered themselves French. Of course France doesn’t exist at that time!

    “Modern India definitely owes it existence to British colonization but it still have complicated links to its ancient past.”

    My point is compare to the 195 nation states that exist now, India is not the best but far ahead. Bharati concept, Mauryan Empire, even Mughal Empire help to create a common identity. UK is pretty much the same idea, but in my view an even weaker sell. Now that Modi is PM of India, I am willing to bet Gujarati is even more supportive of the concept of India than ever.

    • Replies: @DB Cooper
  434. Ray says:
    @Seraphim

    Yes, I got Siddhārtha Gautama birthplace and place of enlightenment flipped.

    So according to your own words, how is your babbling on Hinduism or Daoism serious scholarship? Care to elaborate why Buddhism is closer to Daoism but not Hinduism?

    Do you actually believe that Middle Kingdom is the correct translation for Zhong Guo?

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  435. DB Cooper says:
    @Ray

    This national myth making of the non-existing Mauryan Empire does indeed create a sense of national identity for the Indians. Yes Gujarati are in general supportive of India. Southern Indian not so much.

  436. AaronB says:
    @Ray

    Well, most historians agree that the Scientific Revolution, and especially the Industrial Revolution, was qualitatively different than what went before exactly because it was a self sustaining and cumulative phenomenon.

    In other words, up to that time there were many examples of scattered inventions, even clusters of them, but none of them amounted to a new method that led to a self sustaining expansion of technology with no end is sight, and a new way of life based on the expansion of technology.

    In Zhou times one might invent the stirrup, or the crossbow, to address some urgent local need, but that’s it. Over the centuries this might add up to an impressive tally. But it isn’t a “revolution”, with technology “taking off”, and each new invention building on itself to create a self sustaining expansion with no end in sight, and life being reorganized around this goal.

    No doubt the Spanish did some interesting things, but all that gold and silver did not an IR make. Wealth was a factor, but hardly critical. Changes in attitude in England towards the material world, and the purpose of life, led them to exploit breakthroughs and see them as more than just isolated answers to local needs. The Greeks were aware of steam power, but were not interested in exploiting it’s potential.

    Taoists, like medieval alchemists, may have invented some things, but their goals were spiritual. Medieval alchemists quest for gold was primarily a spiritual proccess, and not, as our materialistic age portrays it, a quest for wealth.

    Culture historians document the shift in Europeans attitudes towards the material world and the value of technology after the Middle Ages, and have done the same for opposite attitudes prevailing in China. But really, familiarity with classic Chinese literature should leave no one in doubt – do you really disagree?

    “How the power elite organize a society” – my point is that the Chinese intellectual elite just weren’t that interested in technology, nor was the power elite, that like most civilizations, spiritual concerns were uppermost. “Superficial” attributes like culture play a key role.

    I am not a reductive materialist like most moderns. I do not strive for clarity and simplicity of ideas at the expense of accuracy and real understanding. Spiritual factors might be too vague for our Descartes dominated modern world, who called for only simple, clear ideas to be considered, but they are real.

    • Replies: @Ray
  437. Seraphim says:
    @Ray

    Well, it clearly looks that you are the one in need to go back to school.

  438. Talha says:
    @Equalizer

    Hey Equalizer,

    Pushing technology without the spiritual connection is a dead end pursue.

    Solid – I’m on your side on this with AaronB and others who recognize the importance of the spirit over the material in the survival and purpose.
    The Prophet (pbuh) advised his people, “…by Allah I do not fear poverty for you, but I fear that this world will be opened up for you, just as it was for those before you. So you will compete with one another for it, as they competed for it; and it will destroy you as it destroyed them.” -reported in Bukhari

    But you are basically admitting to lowering yourself to the level of the lowest class on the Internet to make your points. Isn’t that fundamentally not the spiritual avenue to take? I’m sure some people come here simply as a catharsis to vent their bitterness and insecurities onto the world – why parlay with them at that level? I’m sure your time is worth more.

    Here is what I’ve come to see; many Whites (European background) are seeing the declining population numbers and this is causing panic and loss of confidence. Much of the behavior you see is what happens when a people feel insecure – especially after being on top for a while (see the disintegration of the Ottoman Caliphate – the last stages get very bloody). Add on top of that the fact that there is a feeling that Whites are the only target open to public ridicule without ramifications and the bitterness grows – add in a loss of jobs, a culture that many don’t recognize any more, and instances of truly horrible behavior by some of the non-White minorities in their midst, etc. Some of this has very legitimate grounding and some is pure hatred – you have to learn to sift between the two. The (spiritual) question is; when you see someone digging themselves deeper into a hole, do you offer a hand to lift them out (whether or not it is accepted) or throw dirt on them? Essentially – do you want what is best for people who call themselves White and their progeny, or do you not? There is only one correct spiritual response to that question in my mind because spirituality should be entwined with magnanimity of the heart.

    You also said you advocate the truth, as do I, but your generalized comments on Europeans are not completely true. For instance, you stated that the Romans were not considered civilized. I am not sure what the Chinese thought of them – if at all – but I have read the Muslim annals of history. Though they certainly could be brutal in advancing Pax Romana, they were nonetheless cultured and had (periods of) rule of law. The Muslim Arabs who conquered much of their territory in North Africa recognized this (as with the Persians) and kept much of the foundations of the civil society, bureaucracy, etc. that they had laid down – and had many of the locals help in its administration (they were Arabs, and were completely overwhelmed by the enormity of what they had inherited by military victory). Amr ibn al-Aas (ra) – who decimated the Roman garrisons up and down the Mediterranean – said this about them:
    “They have four particular good qualities: They are the most calm and patient people in the face of trials and tribulations. They restore themselves to their senses after calamity. They attack again after retreat. They are good to the needy, the orphans and the weak. A fifth good quality in them is that they do not stand for the oppression of tyrants.”
    And – please note – the Scandinavians have little share in the world-wide colonial plunder that other European powers partook of – they had a few trading posts, little else.

    You and I know, it does not diminish the contributions of the Persians, Chinese, Indians or any other people for us to admit the Europeans (and their offshoots) have had a very good run in the last few centuries in the realms of science and technology. They have even helped set up structures (though quite imperfect) to establish rule of law among nations and within their own boundaries (for instance, at least they are having a public debate about the use of torture, in other nations it is a forgone conclusion). We have all benefited from this and it behooves us to give credit where it is due. The Prophet (pbuh) advised:
    “He has not thanked God who has not thanked people.” – reported in Abu Dawud

    Of course that same brilliance in technology could be utterly destructive to mankind, but who else but the Europeans (and to an extent the now-technology-oriented Japanese) were witness to that pinnacle lesson in the ruins of their cities. Perhaps the last few decades have been long and they have forgotten.

    However, this may yet be the tale of the tortoise and the hare; and the hare may well do to slow down to admire the passing meadows and contemplate on the expansive sky over his head before he is permanently sidelined with a sprain. Let us remind the ones who will listen to hold fast to the best of the traditions of their past. As for the others who are smug in their self-proclaimed superiority by birthright, well, I have witnessed myself that there are such things so odious to God that He completely wipes any trace of such individuals; they are forgotten by history and their genetic legacy is prevented from mixing with humanity forever (ironically due to all the choices they themselves make) – thus they are rendered as complete failures, even by their own materialist criterion. May God save us from such a fate.

    Please take this not as a criticism, but as a reminder from a friend since we all need reminders. I remain in need of your prayers.

    • Replies: @Salger
  439. AaronB says:
    @Talha

    I hope you’re right. But I think China will be in a bad way for some time to come. I fear that trauma has broken China. China’s dream now is to be like America.

    Many people in the West resisted modernity. In other words, the West too was ‘colonized’ from within. Modernity arose in the West among a minority, then it colonized itself, then the world. The West, as a whole, is almost as much a victim of modernity as the rest of the world. Its a mistake, I think, to see the West as enthusiastically and monolithically modern. In a sense, the West was the first victim of the trauma it inflicted on the entire world.

    I think we must look to the margins for hope. I don’t believe any large and central country, like China or America, offers any hope. I can well believe that Uzbekistan is becoming more spiritual, and in East Asia, I’m betting Japan will be the first to de-industrialize.

    But time will tell.

  440. Salger says:
    @Santoculto

    East Asians don’t dig Dindus and Kebabs. Go look up Japan’s surveillance of Muslims and the antics of Black American soldiers.

    The SJW fantasy of Whitey getting overthrown by the Rainbow Coalition is just that. East Asians might not dig Europeans, but they won’t pick Dindus and Kebabs filled neighborhoods over European filled ones. Among other things.

    • Replies: @Santoculto
  441. Salger says:
    @Ray

    Do you pretend the Rape of Nanking and other Japanese antics in their conquest spree never happened? Just wondering.

  442. Salger says:
    @Talha

    The Prophet was also a pedophile who approved his soldiers raping the women of the enemy.

    • Replies: @Talha
  443. Salger says:
    @Equalizer

    Rising eastern peoples like the Chinese and Indians will do well to observe the fate of the west. However, I think that they will do ok.

    Meanwhile outside of SJWland:

    http://allafrica.com/stories/201604210612.html

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/05/27/china-and-india-have-a-huge-problem-with-racism-toward-black-people/

    Keep pretending the world will be a paradise after every last Whitey is destroyed.

    • Replies: @Nebula
  444. @Salger

    People said the same about italians and spaniards. In the early of 2000’s Italy and Spain had less than 3% of ”immigrants”. Today they have the triple or more…

    South Korea seems is the first in the suicide squad.

    in the south korean schools the multideathculti propaganda is slowly becoming dominant.

    just look how they behave in ”liberal” countries.

    The idea that east asian countries will fight against multideathculti seems gullible. maybe i can be wrong…

    multideathculti is already falling down miserably in the ”west”.

    Most people forget the fact that multideathculti masters offer extreme comfort to those who accept them. It’s like the devil in relation to Faust. People forget that the West has been a difficult place to live and ‘fascists’ were the ones who fought for the welfare of the common man, especially the fascists on the ” right ”. Many labor rights were created in fascist regimes like Mussolini. In Brazil, the first labor laws were made in regimes ” populist ” in the 30s and 40s.

  445. Talha says:
    @Salger

    Hey Salger,

    Not interested in detracting this already long thread on a completely unrelated topic. If anyone is interested, here are previous responses to this charge:
    http://www.unz.com/pcockburn/the-saudis-are-about-to-attempt-their-own-version-of-maos-great-leap-forward/#comment-1407337
    http://www.unz.com/tsaker/saker-rant-about-a-stolen-europe/#comment-1380032
    http://www.unz.com/tsaker/saker-rant-about-a-stolen-europe/#comment-1380108

    One of my teachers from Wisconsin told me about a recent ex-Marine convert (huge muscle-bound White guy named ‘Gunner’) – who had an issue with this – it took about a five minute conversation for him to see the folly in applying our post-modern standards backwards onto all previous generations of human beings. Some people get it – others don’t.

    As far as the charge of rape of female slaves – this is all inferred, never will you find a source text (Qur’an or hadith) in which forcing oneself on a slave is either recommended or allowed. The Qur’an grants this right in the same verse that grants a husband the right to sexual access to his wife; in neither case is forcing oneself implied. Sexual access to the slave (concubine) was a universally accepted practice in nearly all pre-modern cultures (many of the Ottoman sultans themselves were born to slave mothers) and well into the times before slavery was universally prohibited. There is no doubt that some people historically did force themselves on their wives and slaves as some do today. However, to assume all relationships between slaves and masters were not consensual is ludicrous:
    https://www.monticello.org/site/plantation-and-slavery/thomas-jefferson-and-sally-hemings-brief-account

    It seems when some people see the word ‘sex’ their minds automatically assume the word ‘rape’ – their problem, not ours.

    Peace.

  446. Ray says:
    @AaronB

    My point was that time frame make a big difference. For example look at the number of patent being issued today compare to say 50, 100, 150 years ago, the numerical difference is almost astronomical. The reason being that a guy today with a computer, scanner, 3-D printer etc can do more than a small lab with a 100 people 100 years ago. (Granted the people are of similar aptitude). But my biggest disagreement was your point on war not being an incentive for technology innovation. WWI and WWII period are the most productive period from 1900-1950, is it not? Also Europe biggest advances came from war necessity, especially during the last 500 years. Of course trade is also an important motivator, but take second fiddle to war.

    The Spanish empire was in a decline and survival is at stake, it is not that they don’t want to innovate but circumstances no longer permit it. Steam engine is just a power source, if there is no advanced machine at its end it is worthless. And by starting from a higher base, England was able to capitalize on it. What can ancient Greek do with it? I am pretty much using the theory of “If I have seen further, it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.” England was able to improve on technology pioneered by other and capitalize on the steam engine and the metallurgy at that time allow the building of train and steamship. The Nobel science prizes were at one time dominated by England but then they were dominated by other countries subsequently. The decline was not due to English scientists becoming less innovative but because national development have taken a different priority. Da Vinci designed a helicopter but there is no way it could fly for lack of suitable power source. It would be a few hundred years later. In other words, someone with great ability still need to be at the right place and right time.

    I by at large agree with your position but totally disagree with the notion that English or Chinese act in a certain way or have a certain priority constantly. History has shown that it is not static. Crossbow, repeating bow, rockets, grenades came into being when war are being fought, and any government will invest heavily in war technology as it is a matter of survival. The Daoist that invented gun powder through their search for immortality are in many ways similar to the medieval alchemist that advanced chemistry through their search for gold. Human are by nature very similar.

    How do you arrive at the conclusion that China’s dream is to become another America? From your statement, it is obvious you are a very well read person. However, have you ever move out of your comfort zone and try to search for opinion, news that is not reported by the West?

    My research brought me the conclusion that China just want to be China.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  447. @Ray

    The reason I do that is because China and India are the two largest civilization in Asia.

    Ray, again, too many disagreements… On India you’re way off perhaps due to the profound influence of bitch MSM. ROFL.

    — China is the only civilisation state in Asia today, whereas India is a modern state created post ww2 pretending to be a civilisation.

    — For the most part of recorded history pre-WW2, China had been the largest civilisation in Asia( perhaps in the world as well), whereas the geographic area called “India”today had been a loose formation of many local tribes and princelings with some quite distinct from the others. Sorry, but depending on one’s definition of what civilisation is, that area could have been called some trible civilisations, but not “India”.

    –Also, Panda is not sure which had been larger historically (on both united terrotery and the size of population), the geographic area called “India”, or the geographic area called “Southeast Asia”, or “Central Asia”( containing both the Persians and the Arabs). Panda suspects the latters.

    –If Persia could be called a civilisation, for the most part of the history, the 2 largest civilisations in Asia could well be China and Persia.

    And they account for pretty more than half of humanity for the last two, three thousand years.

    Not sure of that. China and Southeast Asia accounted for about that as well. China and Central Asia accounted for about that, too… and so on. “India” didn’t exist most of the time, mind you.

    And if you go back in time, say four thousand years ago the two societies have more similarity than dissimilarity.For one both are agrarian serf society with a rigid class where the religious leaders and warrior sit on top. Both civilization are separate into self governing state with its own hereditary feudal family..

    The same could be said between China and most societies back then. The point is? Back to even earlier, we were pretty much all the same sitting on trees all days in Africa. LOL

    btw, Historically the Chinese people by and large have called ourselves “the descendants of Yan Huang”, later became just “Han Ren ( the Han people)”, or “Hua/Tang Ren” .For one both are agrarian serf society with a rigid class where the religious leaders and warrior sit on top. Both civilization are separate into self governing state with its own hereditary feudal family.

    like I have said on another respond, India also have achieved agricultural revolution like China. If not, the civilization won’t be able to support such huge population.

    Pretty much all scocieties had sort of agricultural revolutions back then when the human said goodbye to hunter-gatherer lifestyle, except perhaps SS Africans and people in harsh extreme weathers such as the normads in the north of Eurasia, North America Indians, the Parcific islanders and Eskimos. The agricultural revolution in the geograpghic area called “India” was trivial and insignificant compared to China for the most part of history (Panda seriuosly doubts “India”= “Indus Valley Civilisation” to start with), despite of “India”‘s huge-arse natural advantages of having humongous arable land and throw-a-seed-and-forget good weather.

    Note here: “historically, India’s huge population” is perhaps misleading as well. Like Sub Sahara Africans, “India” only has had huge population during British Raj, particularly post-ww2 till now, mainly thanks to the emergence of nuclear arms that make world wars infeasible hence peace, the UN Food Aid Programmes, and countless NGOs/donations. Historically, Panda still doubt that that area for the most part had more population than, say, Central Asia, Southeast Asia or even Europe as a whole.

    However, social and more importantly government structure divert tremendously when Qin reunited China while India stay as loose feudal states. Basically, it is only from Qin dynasty onward that China and India differ tremendously..

    Exactly! That’s Panda’s point. The two have been almost polar-opposite in most aspects for the most part of history, from 200BC to now – a good 2,000 years plus, isn’t that clear enough a point?

    If China and “India” had more similarities than otherwise, Panda could make an equally if not more “convincing”case on China and {fill in whatever you name you want here, except perhaps Sub Sahara Africa and Eskimos}. LOL

    • Replies: @Ray
    , @Seraphim
  448. RobRich says: • Website

    I trust three things:

    >The Libertarians are Americanizing China and India. As they do so, population replacement is diminishing.

    >The Libertarians want open borders. People worry about some Mexicans coming in and getting a job. What they don’t see is the effect that OUR people can move into all countries, and BTW they encourage high-IQ big families. They’re putting parties and groups in every country. They’re big in Latin America. At the same time, the Libertarians want the US to expand to cover 50% of the Earth: depopulated Siberia and west China, the next US states?

    >They’ve quietly democratized most of the planet. Now they’re moving to phase II, Gary Johnson at 15%, Brexit, etc. No one sees them coming.

    Just saying.

    • Replies: @Santoculto
  449. @RobRich

    Iluminatti,
    liberals,
    communist,
    masonry,
    feminists,
    marxists,

    aa sí,

    libertarians….

    next…

  450. @AaronB

    I was clearly talking about more recent times, so past conditions aren’t relevant, and I was talking about East Asia as a whole, so material conditions unique to China also aren’t relevant. .

    ?

    But China = East Asia, East Asia by and large was, and is, China.

    China’s warring states period didn’t result in anything comparable to Europe’s technological explosion. ..

    When do a comparison, must do it at the similar time frame.

    You (from whatever euro-centric textbooks you grow up with) know next to nothing about the width and depth of sophitications of technolgies in China’s Warring States until you google up “high technologies, terracotta army” and study some eye-popping facts revealed by some newsest research papers. After that, you may want to come up with anything remotely comparable in Europe at a time. Now that’s comparison, not compared with “Europe’s technological explosion”, which Panda assumes you refer to Europe’s Industrial Revolution about 2, 000 years later.

    For that matter, endemic warfare among small states in ancient Greece also didn’t produce anything like it. . Lots of places had those conditions without those results,.

    diff avg IQ…

    so I’m reminded of Jared Diamonds explanation for European exceptionalism. Diamond also sought the answer in conditions that were not unique to Europe..

    While Diamonds makes some good points from time to time, some of of work reflect that he is either an idiot or a liar.

    The similar question is well known in academic world – “Needham’s Question”.

    I couldn’t agree with you more about the nature and role of Confucianism, but isn’t that consistent with my point? Chinese culture was literally obsessed with the literary and the aesthetic, and was not very interested in technology, despite, as you say, being pretty decent at it. ..

    Panda tried to take a “shortcut” in previous argument to avoid some uneccesary yet actually related topics to save some time. You are right though pointing “the inconsistency” out… Let Panda rephrase the whole issue using your arguments as evidences:

    The Chinese (and the East Asians to a large extend) are natural tech-freeks, oke? ROFL

    It’s because the Chinese have been evolutionarily built with the highest avg spatial IQ – the natural gift for engineering capabilities hence technologies. Hence the Chinese are more naturally attracted to technologies than any other race.

    That’s the reason why “we are pretty decent at it “(even without trying sometimes).

    Given a culture is the total reflection of the people underneath, to say that Chinese culture is not interested in technology, therefore, is intrinsically self-contradicting and ilogical – that was Panda’s 1st reaction, but decided to take “shortcut” avoiding writing so much… lol

    This misleading conclusion arises due to 2 reasons mainly: 1) perhaps you don’t fully understand Chinese culture? or 2) within a certain time frame, a culture may encourage and discourage an intrinsic behaviour of the said culture depending on the circumstances (e.g. hunger/need/govt policy/current economic statue/ current priorities, etc) that may appear completely misleading for outsiders?

    (to be continued, depending on Panda’s weekend schedule, lol)

    • Replies: @AaronB
  451. Ray says:
    @PandaAtWar

    Firstly, I am talking about Indian and Chinese civilization. The former technically include Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Bhutan, Nepal etc. Is Qin, Han, Tang, Song, Ming dynasty a country? The modern concept of nation state is pretty much due to the availability of advancement in land mapping technology. For the last two millennium, China unite and disunited as frequently as India. The notion of Han unity is nice but doesn’t hold water when the individual

    I think you are blind to the fact that if not for a common written script, China is as fragmented and as diverse as India. Have you ever thought of the fact that if not for the Japanese invasion, China could not be so easily reunited? I am not saying China has weaker cohesiveness than other nation states. Despite its size and diversity, China pretty much is among the best compare to the 195 nation states that exist now. India is less so than China but is still among the top. The following is an interesting read.

    http://www.unz.com/plee/what-if-it-wasnt-one-china-vs-two-chinas-what-if-there-was-no-china/

    If you want to take about superficial similarity, Japan, Korea, Vietnam definitely are much more similar to China. However, Indian and Chinese civilization can be so large because they settled on a fertile land with two gigantic river providing basis of large population growth. This geographical factor are what India and China shared and made them large agrarian society. You can look up the population of the last two thousand years. India and China are pretty much a continent in itself. Of course the Muslim civilization is another large one but that’s another story. You totally ignore the technological advancement of the Indian civilization. Because size matters, that’s why for the last two thousands Japan, Korea and Vietnam produced less technological advancement than India! Having a huge size in population also means a huge market and inventive force. China also benefited greatly from crop such as potato and corn, having its largest population growth after the their introduction.

    India and China are both exporter of native goods, thoughts, cultures to its peripheries having a tremendous effect. It is interesting you use Persia as an example. Persia clearly achieved greatness through invading other cultural groups to achieve empire status. All India and China, has to do is unite its cultural basin and be a gigantic empire, their hugeness actually discourage expansionism. It is always the Chinese minorities that are expansionist. Persia for over a thousand years became part of he Islamic Caliphe empire, still is Islamic today. India and China, despite invasion always settled back to its cultural and historical root. Persia is an important civilization but play a role more akin to Turkey or Japan.

    Historically, if you are a political leader of India and China, you see another giant across the Himalayas. Today, You see the USA, EU, Russia and a bunch of smaller states. If you are a leader of Japan, Korea, Vietnam you see the world differently. I want to repeat again I am not saying India is similar to China in food, dress, custom etc but they both played similar anchored roles in world history. You might argue that Japan and Korea are more similar but the role they played in history is the total opposite. Let’s take a look at the list of the so-called great civilization: Babylonian, Mesopotamia, Egyptian, Greco-Roman, Islam, Indian, Chinese. You can add to the list. Tell me which is the closet to the Chinese for the last couple thousand years and today? Or maybe we are just comparing apples and oranges here?

    • Replies: @PandaAtWar
    , @DB Cooper
  452. Seraphim says:
    @PandaAtWar

    Perhaps it is worthwhile to take a look at the very geographical features of the “Subcontinent”. It is really a ‘cul-de-sac’ in which gathered different successive cultural streams from the “Continent” (i.e. Eurasia) as well as from “Oceania”. The ‘Vedic tradition’ so dear to Aryanists, Yoga freaks, Hindutva nationalists and assorted ignorant ‘White supremacists’, far from being the pristine ‘Primordial Tradition’, traceable to the ‘Harappan Civilization’ (or to the mythical ‘Hyperborea’), is the result of centuries of efforts (some very modern) to harmonize various and sometimes contradictory traditions streams which form the baffling bazaar of Hindu mythology.

    China presents a much older and unitary tradition (conventionally designed as ‘Daoism’, but which would more appropriately be called Taiji, Tai Chi, The Great Pole, The Great Ultimate, which was to inform all subsequent cultural developments as well as the organization of the state), as is illustrated in the Neolithic painted pottery of Yang Shao culture, which displays the oldest depictions of the Taijitu symbol. The expansion of a strikingly similar painted pottery in Thailand (Ban Chiang culture) shows the same underlying ‘philosophy’. Even more striking is the emergence of an almost identical cultural ensemble at the other end of the ‘Silk Road’, in Ukraine and Romania (the Cucuteni-Tripolye culture). The similitudes are so numerous that an independent development is extremely unlikely. It shows the underlying unity of the great Eurasian space.
    It was that profound intuition that inspired Leibniz in his grandiose Eurasian project, for which he found a no less inspired ally in the Tsar Peter the Great. Essentially building a bridge through Russia and Siberia to tie Europe with China, which would bring both sides, not only political-economic but also spiritual-cultural, mutual benefits. Leibniz was fascinated by the Chinese civilization and it was the Taiji which directly inspired him to ‘invent’ the binary system of numeration, the base of the development of computers.
    The integration of Eurasia, which ‘Oceania’ tried desperately to stop, is unstoppable.

    • Replies: @PandaAtWar
  453. AaronB says:
    @Ray

    Well, I realize I’m not going to convince you that material factors aren’t the answer. Material explanations are always selective about their data and logic. What’s more, these explanations can always go both ways – if China had the IR, materialists would be assuring us that of course any idiot can see that peace and stability were necessary preconditions.

    Jared Diamond probably did the best that we can hope for in the materialist paradigm, and it was a ridiculous performance, full of obvious holes. Of course, the book was widely acclaimed in America.

    Europe had three distinctive revolutions that all express the same idea – the Scientific Revolution, the Industrial Revolution, and the Capitalist Revolution.

    I realize that you think these are just intensification of what went before (shoulders of giants), but this cluster of massive change involved a complete break with old ways of seeing the world.

    The new idea is that endless expansion of power is the goal of life, where before everyone valued homeostasis and sufficiency. That nature is dead, where before everyone thought it was sacred and alive. That only clear, simple ideas have value, where before people thought the most important things were the least easily grasped, like the Tao, or God.

    Aristotle ranked knowledge from highest to lowest – at the bottom was techne, our technology. At the top was knowledge with no practical application. All traditional cultures agreed with this hierarchy.

    Post Middle Ages Europeans flipped this on its head. Lord Bacon, who helped lay the founation for science, was quite clear that his agenda was the accumulation of power over the physical world. This was a radical break with the medieval alchemists. Descartes, another key forerunner, resolved to consider as true only the simplest and clearest ideas, in another reversal of traditional evaluations. He too claimed his agenda was not truth, not accuracy, not full understamding, but power over nature.

    Adam Smith famously said that everyone naturally seeks to endlessly
    improve his material condition and the key human trait is restlesslness. All traditional societies would gave regarded this with horror, as a deranged view. The endlessly restless man, never content, would have been seem as suffering an illness. Yet by Smiths time it was practically an unchallenged assumption, as it is today, despite the fact that it is so obviously false. Most people just want enough to get by, and enjoy their life.

    I of course agree with you that a nations character can drastically change over time, and that was a huge part of my first comment here.

    It happened in Europe. Europeans became completely different people after the Middle Ages, and it may be happening in China, although I hope not.

    When I say China has opted for becoming like America, I mean they now base their life on acquiring stuff and gadgets, just like America, and have become hard core materialists. They’re also becoming arrogant, aggressive, and violent just like Americans, not just on the national level but the individual level as well. I’ve been to China, and dealt with many Chinese in the US – too many of them are like the worst Americans.

    It is a sad and discouraging thought, but I think China was so profoundly broken by the trauma of the last two centuries that she will only recover after the collapse of techno-civilization, just like America.

    • Replies: @Ray
  454. AaronB says:
    @PandaAtWar

    1) For the purposes of my point and your response, China does not equal East Asia. I said East Asian countries, including Japan and Korea, are not inventive for cultural reasons, not because of incapacity. You responded by denying this and listing material factors that pertain solely to China. Not relevant to my point.

    3) You claimed that endemic interstate warfare was responsible for Europe’s technological breakthrough. I pointed out that similar conditions obtained in China without producing something similar.

    You are now saying we cannot compare the two cultures when they had similar conditions, but ancient China should be compared to ancient northern Europe, despite vast dissimilarities, and it is illegitimate to compare Europe in the last 300 years to China during that time frame.

    I initially scratched my head in puzzlement over this, but then realized if your goal is to see China in the most flattering light, these strange limitations would have to be observed.

    Look, I accept that China was enormously inventive in a scattershot way during its history, probably more so than any other country at least till the 13th century. I think most historians accept this as well, and this is the entire reason everyone is so puzzled that China didn’t come up with the European revolution.

    But as I was at such pains to show in my others comments, what happened in Europe wasn’t just more of the same, but a whole new way of thinking and living based on new goals.

    In other words, even if Warring States China did produce lots of innovation, which it did, it did not produce technological expansion as a way of life and a radical new method to achieve this. It was just an intensification of what went before, a brilliant one, but not a “revolution” – it did not produce a new social organization with new goals, involving a rejection of ancient attitudes, a reversal of old hierarchies, and a radical new method depending on the rejection of
    ancient beliefs about the natural world and the purpose of human life.

    Your unchallenged assumption seems to be that everyone wants endless technological expansion and is only limited by capacity, and since China had more capacity, why didn’t all that stuff happen in China?

    3) In your last paragraphs, you claim that China had the capacity , but various factors limited the expression of this capacity at various times. You’re confusing an intrinsic character trait, which involves goals, preferencrs, desires, and motivations, with intrinsic capacity, which is subordinate to character. That is, in fact, my point.

    You think the innate Chinese capacity for technology is just bursting to express itself but limited by a host of material and contingent factors. I think it is limited by preferences, character, and other intangibles.

    • Replies: @Ray
    , @PandaAtWar
  455. @Ray

    ROFL. What grass you are smoking?

    Firstly, Panda is talking about Somalis and English civilization. The former technically include Ethiopia, Djibouti , Horn of Africa, Gulf of Aden, Kenya, etc. Is England even a country BTW? The modern concept of nation state is pretty much due to the availability of advancement in land mapping technology. For the last two millennium, England unite and disunited as frequently as Somalia. The notion of Anglo-Saxen unity is nice but doesn’t hold water when the individual

    Panda thinks you are blind to the fact that if not for a common written script, England is as fragmented and as diverse as Somalia.

    Have you ever thought of the fact that if not for the Roman invasion, and lately Nazi Invasion, England could not be so easily reunited?

    Panda is not saying England has weaker cohesiveness than other nation states. Despite its size and diversity, England pretty much is among the best compare to the 195 nation states that exist now. Somalia is less so than England but is still among the top.

    If you want to take about superficial similarity, Norway, Sweden, Netherlands definitely are much more similar to England.

    However, Somali and English civilization can be so large because they settled on a fertile land with two gigantic oceans next to them providing basis of large population growth. This geographical factor are what Smalia and England shared and made them large agrarian society, ok, depending on one’s definitions of what is “large” and what is “agrarian”.

    You can look up the population of the last two thousand years. Somalia and England are pretty much an Island in itself. Of course the Muslim civilization is another large one but that’s another story.

    You totally ignore the technological advancement of the Somali civilization. Because size matters, that’s why for the last two thousands Sweden, Norway and Netherlands produced less technological advancement than England! Having a huge size in population also means a huge market and inventive force. England also benefited greatly from crop such as potato and corn, having its largest population growth after the their introduction.

    Somalia and England are both exporter of native goods, thoughts, cultures to its peripheries having a tremendous effect.

    It is interesting you use Persia as an example. Persia clearly achieved greatness through invading other cultural groups to achieve empire status.

    All Somalia and England , has to do is unite its cultural basin and be a gigantic empire, or kingdom, their hugeness actually discourage expansionism. It is always the English minorities that are expansionist. Persia for over a thousand years became part of he Islamic Caliphe empire, still is Islamic today. Somalia and England, despite invasion always settled back to its cultural and historical root. Persia is an important civilization but play a role more akin to Turkey or Japan.

    Historically, if you are a political leader of Somalia and England, you see another giant across the Med. Today, You see the USA, EU, Russia and a bunch of other states. If you are a leader of Sweden, Norway, netherlands you see the world differently.

    Panda wants to repeat again Panda is not saying Somalia is similar to England in food, dress, custom etc but they both played similar anchored roles in world history in their regions. You might argue that Norway and Netherlands are more similar but the role they played in history is the total opposite.

    Let’s take a look at the list of the so-called great civilization: Babylonian, Mesopotamia, Egyptian, Greco-Roman, Islam,. You can add to the list. Tell Panda which is the closet to the English for the last couple thousand years and today? Somalis! Panda tells ya!

    Or maybe we are just comparing apples and oranges here? Yeah right!
    ——-

    Naah Ray, fixed for ya! ROFL

    • Replies: @Ray
  456. makran says:
    @Equalizer

    Everybody considered everybody else in the ancient world as barbarians. Arabs considered Persians barbarians and Persians considered Arabs. Arabs looked down upon blacks or Zanuj as monkeys. Indians considered all outsiders mlecchas as polluting. Racism is natural human nature. The Chinese considered all peoples outside china as barbarians including Indians and Arabs.

    Whites were only successful during the last 300 years. I doubt it. the standard of living in the Netherlands and England was already racing past way ahead of the rest of the world before colonialism even started. The entire modern world was invented by White people and is far superior to anything invented in the past uptil now.

    Bad Karma?? I guess, Indians do not have bad karma by invading and conquering Sikkim. I guess Hindus have no bad karma for destroying Buddhism in India. Muslims including Turks have no bad karma according to you. No tribe in the world are angels, But most browns blacks claims so by faking history and hiding their skeletons in the closet.

  457. Ray says:
    @AaronB

    Fundamentally we all view the world from our own perspective and limited surrounding. You view the current Scientific Revolution, the Industrial Revolution, and the Capitalist Revolution as unprecedented. Why not view them as simply occurrence at the right place at the right time on planet earth, sort of natural progress? Have you ever entertain the idea that the Scientific Revolution, the Industrial Revolution, and the Capitalist Revolution have yet to happen? And also why limit revolution to those. There are so much more possibilities. Academics always study matter after the fact. Few can make the right prediction because there are too many variables to grasp. The people that actually can influence history are the doers. Of course, many times the outcome are beyond what they expected too. That’s what Fukuyama’s “End of History” theory is based on. However, as we see “End of History” is no where in sight yet.

    I frequently heard of how one person judge a culture, religion, country or a civilization base on his own interaction and exposure. However, in my experience if you see only the negatives and bad, it is more a reflective of limited exposure. And if you cannot see any positive it is also more prejudice than anything else. The Nazi attempted genocide is one such example, the indirect European genocide of the American natives is another because they see no redeeming quality in those civilization. Not saying that anybody is racist but I feel that they are no trying hard enough.

    If you think China and its people had it bad in the last couple of centuries, it is probably because you think the Qing, PRC period are one of the worst. If the last two hundred years are trauma, then should we come to the conclusion that Chinese civilization is damaged goods beyond repair, and should be eradicated or changed? People outside of China and US surely view those countries differently than those within. Most of the time people view events as good or bad simply on whether it benefit them. China and the US is similar in a sense that they have big economy, big military and cast a shadow over their neighbours. However, their difference is also profound. China exports immigrants while US received. In China the core culture is the native Han Chinese, in the US it is a transplanted European empire dominated by English speaking Protestant but has a fast changing demographic (which seems to be an obsession of authors on this site). That’s why I am predicting China will go a different path than US.

    You said “Europeans became completely different people after the Middle Ages, and it may be happening in China, although I hope not.” You feel that the industrial revolution is the pinnacle event that changes European and the world fundamentally. However, I believe humanity and human nature is simply too diverse and complex. There are “enlightened” people that live 5,000 years ago and there are “brutish” people that live today. In today’s Europe crime is as prevalent before. I am not talking about the run of the mill murder, rape, robbery; it is the more sophisticated elite that steal from its community or country, and doing so with a straight face. They might not be an hereditary noble but he still have similar notion of superiority. Did human, not just European actually changed for the better through time? Can you imagine with no effective policing or punitive law what England, what any country would be like.

    I believe when you said Europeans changed, you mean the way they see themselves and the world. But if that is the case, why do people act the same as they are today as before even with the introduction of education and technology brought by the European revolution? If not, what is your definition? I am not trying to challenge you but trying to be convinced by you.

    Adam Smith is right in a sense that people like to make comparison. As long as there are material and lifestyle quality differences, most people would want what the others have. But it is also restlessness that make human want to seek spiritual enlightenment beyond material and physical satisfaction.

  458. Ray says:
    @PandaAtWar

    The problem with your assertion is that most of is factually incorrect. No historian would consider English or Somalian a civilization. The only European country that has the historical impact similar to UK is Spain. Historical impact similarity is what I am talking about.

  459. Ray says:
    @AaronB

    I think I am beginning to get your position on why you only considered the industrial revolution as truly revolution. If we are to analyze it systematically. There are a few ingredients that are missing from previous technological advancement. Although you concede the Industrial Revolution that happened in England did improved upon on previous technology, it is fundamentally different from the previous ones. Too many people concentrate on how European dominated and changes the world geopolitical scene due to superiority of culture, religion or race.

    However, in my observation some of the key ingredients that allow Industrial Revolution to happen are as follow, not necessary in order of importance:

    1.There is enough technological built up from previous generation. Now of an even higher quality.

    2.Europe now has developed a suitable environment for it, although each nation state differently. The many wars are just one factor, increase trade and exchange just as important.

    3.Lastly, it is how Europe has made education universal a central part of government policy.

    I was always amazed so few people emphasize the last point. This is the one that easily make the most difference compare to previous advancement. This is the ingredient that is missing in China and other major civilization. By providing education to all its population (I know women don’t get that until later), the chances of innovation increase multi fold.

    Of course, the introduction of “new world” crop allowing population to grow helps exponentially too. This is how the revolution happened. However, I don’t see it as that unique either. Because, eventually the rest of the world also introduced universal education. I want to believe that it changes the way people view the word but the evidence showed other wise. What the European did with their new found technology, organization and as you like to say new way of thinking?

    It simply shows pretty much the same. The king is dead, long live the king.

  460. Ron Unz says:

    I happened to notice that this comment-thread was still going strong, having easily broken 60,000 words and mostly now focused on questions of the rise of Europe and the Industrial Revolution.

    I’m hardly a specialist on this topic, but several years ago I read Kennedy Pomeranz’s book The Great Divergence analyzing this exact question, and found it exceptionally detailed and rather persuasive:

    I’m curious what most of you think of that analysis.

    • Replies: @Ray
    , @Santoculto
  461. DB Cooper says:
    @Ray

    “The former [India] technically include Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Bhutan, Nepal etc.”

    Oh please. First there is no such thing as India until the British created it. What you are saying is that whatever was once part of the British empire should become part of India. It is this kind of mindset that makes India hated by all its neighbors. And Bhutan was never part of the British Raj. In fact Bhutan, like Thailand, is one of the few countries that has never been colonialized. There is nothing in common between Bhutan and India, whether historically, racially, ethnically, culturally and religiously. Bhutanese will resent if you lump them with Desi people.

    Bhutanese are on the edge because they know that India never give up the idea of invading and annexing their country. And what you said did nothing to alleviate their fear. Not that their fear is unfounded. Fifteen years before Saddam Hussein rolled his column of tanks into Kuwait city and annexed Kuwait, Nehru’s daughter Indira Gandhi rolled her column of army trucks into Gangtok and annexed Sikkim, a fellow Himalayan kingdom next to Bhutan. In the early 1990s India repeated the same feat and tried to annex Bhutan. Thanks God it didn’t succeed that time.

    Not many people know but India immediately unleashed violence on its neighbors the moment the British left the subcontinent and bequeathed the country they created to the natives. Since then India has invaded and annexed land from every single of its neighbors. To this day India has unresolved border disputes with every single of its neighbors. This fact has never been reported in the main stream media. Whether it is out of ignorance or out of geopolitics consideration I don’t know. I suspect a combination of both. No wonder Kissinger (no softie himself) said Indians are the most G*D damn aggressive people in the world.

    • Replies: @Ray
  462. Lloyd1927 says:

    Many high status Jewish males prefer to marry beautiful Nordic women like Ivanka Trump (who sometimes “convert”). The Jewish identity does not often survive over generations.

  463. Makran says:
    @Ray

    The Buddha was most probably a White guy. One of the names of the Buddha used often is ‘Sakya Muni’ which translated to Sage (Munis) of the Sakyas. Now who are the Sakyas? Why they are the Scythians who invaded and conquered Northern India from Central Asia (Southern Ukraine/Southern Russia/ Kazakhstan ). Sythians were called ‘Sakas’ in Sanskrit.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Scythians

    What did the Scythians look like?

    From
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scythians

    In the late 2nd or early 3rd century AD, the Greek physician Galen declares that Sarmatians, Scythians and other northern peoples have reddish hair.[73][78] The fourth-century Roman historian Ammianus Marcellinus wrote that the Alans, a people closely related to the Scythians, were tall, blond and light-eyed.[79] The 4th century bishop of Nyssa Gregory of Nyssa wrote that the Scythians were fair skinned and blond haired.[80] The 5th-century physician Adamantius, who often follow Polemon, describes the Scythians are fair-haired.

    In the physical characteristics of Buddha you get
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_characteristics_of_the_Buddha
    characteristic no. 29 :Eyes deep blue

    For more details check out this website : This is not a Nordicist or Neo nazi website at all (not that it would make any difference at all if it had been). The concept is brilliant.
    http://thaimangoes.blogspot.in/2009/08/h9.html

    Buddha most probably was a Scythian, not only that, the Ashoka chakra which is now the official emblem of the Indian Republic and considered an ancient Indian emblem actually originates from central Asia and came to the Indian subcontinent with the White skinned Scythians! The Ashoka Chakra is also present on the Indian flag!!
    The Sakas, ‘people of the stag,’ are associated with the animal symbols of the chakravartin, (universal ‘wheel-turning’ sovereign).

    The Scythians also introduced the cremation of bodies and the erection of burial mounds, or stupas (topes), previously unknown in India.

  464. Ray says:
    @DB Cooper

    Afghanistan is the only country to vote against the admission of Pakistan to the United Nations. One can argue that Pakistan is a British creation too. Every country in Africa and America are created by colonization, is it not? I am just not going to apply double standard to India. Modern states are political creation, and I assume you are a realist if you frequent this site. Can anybody challenge India’s territorial aspiration while ignoring those of the US, China or Japan? Can we say only native should get citizenship in the Americas? Anybody in the West dare support the independence of Okinawa/Ryuku or Sikkim? By contrast it is cool to support free Tibet and Taiwan.

    India’s embassy is still in charge of the foreign affair of Bhutan, it is the reality on the ground. India’s border war with China is also due to its insistence on using the MacMahon line, and has pretty much annexed South Tibet into Arunachal Pradesh. I feel that Gandhi made a fatal mistake by letting Pakistan go. Sure, there will be differences and pain but at least it would avoid a government vs government war, and no dispute in Kashmir. Have I unleash a cash of worms or I am just being naive? Are human so communal that people of different religion can’t live in peace together or is it the politicians fault. I agree it is unwise for India to have border dispute with EVERY single one of its neighbours. However, like I’ve said before, national border use modern science to demarcate and couldn’t be done until recently. China also has border dispute with all 16 of its land neighbours on founding but luckily has negotiate it down to only 1 with India (3 more if maritime dispute Vietnam, Philippines and Japan is counted).

    What is your proposal on this issue? In my view sitting down to negotiate and accept a compromise is the only way. War or even denial would make matter worse. Not many people talk about it but a bunch of countries are also contesting ownership the Arctic. Which are all dubious as hell.

    • Replies: @DB Cooper
    , @DB Cooper
  465. Ray says:
    @Ron Unz

    I am sorry I haven’t read the book but going through the review and comment, the author seems to suggest circumstances played a big part in the way Industrial Revolution happened. My view is closer to this too. If we ask why the Industrial Revolution didn’t happen 300 years earlier in England we are bound to hear the Euro-centric crowds giving all sort of reason for it not happening. I am willing to bet the reasons are very similar to reasons why it didn’t happen to China, Japan or any pre-industrialized country as well. The reason would mainly be condition not being right at that time. Or we can rephrase the question to “Why it didn’t happen Austria?” and question it from another perspective.

  466. DB Cooper says:
    @Ray

    “Can anybody challenge India’s territorial aspiration while ignoring those of the US, China or Japan?”

    India’s territorial aspiration, that’s about says it all isn’t it. At least you are honest about it, I can give you that.

    “India’s embassy is still in charge of the foreign affair of Bhutan, it is the reality on the ground.”

    This is what is so disgusting about India’s foreign policy. India wants to play the big brother in the neighborhood and use its bulk to intimidate its weaker neighbors. Bhutan can’t even decide which country to have diplomatic relations without going through India and India restricts Bhutan to only a few. None of the major countries are allow to have a diplomatic relationships with Bhutan. Not the US, not the UK, not France, not Germany, not China, its neighbor! A few decades ago Bhutan wants to do international tourism and India insisted Bhutan cannot accept foreign currencies other than the rupees. Two years ago Bhutan wants to build a highway in the southern part of the country and India rejected that proposal. When Bhutan prime minister met the Chinese foreign minister on an international conference India cut off its oil subsidies to send its signal of displeasure. Bhutan wants to open up its countries to foreign countries for hydroelectric infrastructure and India does not allow it, insisting that infrastructure projects in Bhutan are for the sole domain of Indian companies. And everybody knows that India sucks at infrastructure.

    That is the reality on the ground. And this is why India is hated by its neighbors.

  467. DB Cooper says:
    @Ray

    While I am at it I would like to say India’s treatment of Nepal is just as disgusting. Like Bhutan Nepal is a landlocked country sandwiched between China and India. Last year Nepal has a devastating earthquake. India took advantage of this disaster and initiated a blockade on Nepal just because Nepal parliament amend its constitution not to India’s liking. Ever wonder why the Nepalese hate the Indians?

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  468. Art says:
    @AaronB

    Both the East and West more or less have the same biological guttural traits of tribalism. The difference between then is intellectual. Below the waist they are the same – above the neck resides different thoughts and goals.

    That intellectual difference can be summed up in two words – harmony and hope.

    In the East the goal of living, is harmony between each other and nature. That is the practical objective of Eastern philosophy.

    In the West the goal of living is based on the “hope” that things can get better. Philosophically the West is Christianity – and the first tenet of Christianity is to have hope for a better future.

    An Easterner wants a smooth society – a Westerner wants to go to Mars.

    The Easterner does this by fitting into a pecking order slot – the Westerner does this by cooperating with each other as free individuals.

    • Replies: @Santoculto
  469. S B Woo says:

    A great article. Thanks.

  470. @DB Cooper

    your last 2 posts were kinda eye opening as I don’t follow news of those parts of the world at all. thanks.

    • Replies: @DB Cooper
  471. @Art

    Poor [real] philosophy, every delirium is called its saint name.

    • Replies: @Art
  472. @Ron Unz

    I think more in the process of discovery ‘or’ invention which is almost always obscure, hidden, such the micro-changes that become big. And I think that Europe has brought together three important features: invariably high level of intensity of ” civilization ” (as it seems, when a society is in a constant state of social agitation and possible ” evolution ”), rare group of highly creative humans in the right place at the right time, to make the ‘right’ discoveries or inventions and an appropriate level of technology. I do not know if there was a renaissance in architecture at that time (usually ” renaissances ” held in Italy;)) that may have come and inspired some guys in Scotland or in England who revolutionizing the engineering resulting in industrial revolution.

    One thing I know,

    creativity is unpredictable,

    It is the most acutely impressive response to a certain need that is the soul of the business.

    While no one really practiced eugenics in a precise / accurate way, when a civilization reaches its peak, that is, thinks it has found the ideal formula to live, then it tends to repel creativity. And this clear phenomenon that usually have biological/psycho-cognitive reverberations.

    The ” Chineses ” that contributed decisively in the creative waves in all areas of human knowledge, in ancient times, and recently, during the European average age, it is very likely to have been less conformist, more distracted… the opposite of the avg east asian today*

    The ” civilization ” (servilizations) take advantage of the creative fire of its brightest classes in this regard and when creativity starts to threaten the power of the powerful then turns into a ” burden ”.

  473. Seraphim says:

    This post attracted more than 470 comments, more than any other. It is certainly a reflection of the anxieties of the WASPHAGVACAS provoked by the realization that the era of their dominance is at its end. The bubble of their imagined ‘superiority’, ‘manifest destiny’, ‘exceptionality’ in which they lived has been punctured and is steadily deflating. The ‘Decline of the West (Der Untergang des Abendlandes) announced by Oswald Spengler in 1918 approaches its final phases (despite the desperate attempts to stop it). The ‘West’ can no longer commandeer the ‘Rest’ as it used to do at the time of ‘Rule Britannia’ and gunboat diplomacy. Its attempts to rule the World-Island (in the parlance of Sir Halford Mackinder) have petered out and the geopolitical nightmare that was to haunt the world’s two sea powers during the first half of the twentieth century—Great Britain and, later on, the United States (Germany or Russia dominating the Eurasian land mass as a prelude to mastery of the world) has become a reality, aggravated by the integration of China (which started actually with the completion of the Transiberian and the China Eastern Railways).
    It is also a symptom of the fears that the ‘West’ will loose its ‘identity’ (and the perks attached to it), constructed on the illusion of its exceptionalism, the pinnacle of ‘evolution’, ‘natural selection’ and ‘survival of the fittest’ (the ‘natural masters’ of the weaklings). It tries to calm these fears by clutching at the straws of their supposed higher IQ or how more efficiently they used the gunpowder, or by belittling the achievements of the non-HAGVACAS. It is hard to admit that the Exceptionalistan is not that exceptional after all.

    • Replies: @Salger
  474. DB Cooper says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    You are welcome. For all sorts of reason even though people know India is poor, nevertheless people usually assume India is a peaceful country. It is not. As we speak Kashmir blow up again, latest death toll is 18 killed. A few years ago Indian security force gunned down hundreds of unarmed protesters in Kashmir. Over 8000 Kashmiris disappeared without a trace in 60 years of India rule only to turn up in mass graves. Just google Amnesty International Kashmir mass graves. For some reason the MSM are muted on this. I wonder why.

  475. You just have to love those Asians. They are the minority that liberals hate recognizing. I grew up in NYC and the smart kid public schools back in the early/mid 1970s were Brooklyn Tech, Stuvesant and Bronx Science — I am not sure if Queens had one as well. But Brooklyn Tech even when I entered high school back in 1972 had a sizeable Asian (mostly Chinese) contingent. I went to Catholic school instead. I find it interesting how two groups who have traditionally been high academic achievers play their role in American today. Not that Jews didn’t involve themselves in the hard sciences, but because of other social, ethno-political factors, they tended to overtake the social sciences and therapeutic spheres. How many Jewish shrinks, social workers and poli-sci professors can you count on 120 hands? Because of their profoundly leftist political bent as a group, I believe that many Jews felt the need to influence the thinking of others, whereas the Asians do not seem to have that overriding need. Theirs seems to be a strong desire to be successful in life in order to benefit themselves and their families, but not the desire to influence the thinking of society as a whole. Just my observation.

  476. Salger says:
    @Seraphim

    SJW found. Go back to your college class.

  477. TJM says:
    @Sam Shama

    Just silly, how can one even respond. The PC ZioCons are the ones who use anonymity and multiple accounts to try and push a lie.

    If there is one thing that I say you can disprove, go for it.

  478. Salger says:

    Is Western civilization declining?

    First off, recognize that there are no other civilizations of note left, and there haven’t been for awhile, so the predicate “Western” is superfluous and even misleading (since it suggests alternatives). Second, this question even being raised shows that too many so-called civilized individuals are nothing of the sort. I mean, are you seriously asking whether a civilization that has accomplishments such as the progress on printing human organs is declining?

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  479. @AaronB

    Well, your response has caused more new troubles for you…lol

    1. Don’t argue, listen. Lol. Ancient China to East Asia is more than what Greeco/Roman Empire to Europe. For the most part of recorded history, China to East Asia has been what the current EU to Europe. And you fancy that China can’t represent East Asia? ROFL

    2. You put up a strawman: Panda claimed that endemic interstate warfare was one of the major reasons responsible for Europe’s technological breakthrough, not the only and all reasons ( by “everything else being equal”, Panda really meant that assume major things are equal, such as the Chinese has the same avg IQ as the Europeans, and no big deal climate change or big and prolonged natural disasters to one fo them given the same periods, etc. to simplify the argument).

    And, yes, Panda tells you that when comparing 2 things, they must be put into the same/similar time frame, else Issac Newton and Nicola Tesla would be an idiot when any college dropout today could school them on some extremely advanced concepts from flat screen TVs to fighter jets, and Einstein must be a semi-retard as well as Panda’s 12-year-old neightbour kid could enlighten him on physics of smartphones and PCs. ROFL

    Obviously, you still have no clue on what varieties of super advanced technologies that Terracotta Army has revealed >2,000 years ago. It’s not “see China in the most flattering light”, but just to be fair – too much to ask for an euro-centric testbook/media-brainwashed fellow? Perhaps. Lol

    On China Vs. Euro thing, too complicated… to put it very simple: it’s about the most effective way of survival for each due to their different social structures since very early on : unity Vs. seperation – each has its pros and cons. (relatively speaking) Extremely advanced technologies and economy of China since very early on, along with the sheer lenghth of her staying on top of the world without statue quo peers (hence no trace of danger), has made the Chinese decadent until the modern time when the Europe started to industrialise at the other side of the continent. The strive for eternal unity & peace (from the emperors and the elites through making the laws/rules/social etiquette, later passed onto the mass) has made the Chinese culture pay the heavy price of sacrifising a large degree of individuality and spirit of adventure in return for conformity/stability, whereas Europe went almost the opposite way for its survival strategy… it has nothing to do with the innate awesome capabilities of the Chinese on engineering and technologies really.

    Your last sentence ” I think it is limited by preferences, character, and other intangibles”
    touched some truth though. ‘There’s lot to do with preferences of each, their circumstances have forced China and Europe into adapting different ways to better suit their respective survival strategies at a given time, hence “preferences”, preferences for how to survive. Preferences inevitablely have left traces in the respestive cultures for the given time, yet both prefereences and the traces they ‘ve lfet in comtemporar cultures are not innate and can be changed as time changes when circumstances change then new preferences could set in…

  480. @Seraphim

    Interesting…largely agreed.

    The reemergence of China and the alliance, even informal one and economic-only, of China-Russia-Persia-Germany-France across Eurasia, would spell the end of petro-dollar Oceania. That’s one of the major reasons why the US fight so hard in South China Sea – to disrupt China’s sea-base “Silk Road” to the ME and Europe.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  481. Art says:
    @Santoculto

    Poor [real] philosophy, every delirium is called its saint name.

    You got something better – let’s hear it.

    The goal of harmony and hope separates East and West philosophies.

    They seek a different future – one wants serenity for people – the other cooperatively works and strives for a better future.

    This is self-evident.

    • Replies: @Santoculto
  482. @Art

    ”Culture” is a euphemism to the parasitism

    people are cheated to conform and manipulated to ”cooperate” but most of them work harder and receive little for their own work.

    in the same way a parasite infect the brain of the some unlucky being and make him think what he is doing is for the sake of their own benefit. The living being works for another but thinking that he’s doing to yourself = ”culture”

    • Replies: @Art
  483. Art says:
    @Santoculto

    people are cheated to conform and manipulated to ”cooperate” but most of them work harder and receive little for their own work.

    The division of labor is on solid ground – it is a good thing – sex is division of labor. None of us can do all the things needed to survive. Cooperation builds thing – good things – things that make our lives better.

    As to compensation for work. At one time half the people living were slaves. Thing changed – things got better – it will happen again.

  484. Nebula says:

    Simply being a good test-taker does not equate to having high intelligence, which itself is just one component of what enables certain group of people to achieve economic & cultural dominance. I’m sure the Chinese scored much higher on academic exams than the Europeans did back in the 1500s, but it was Europeans who shaped the modern world as we know today, not the Asians.

    I’m an Asian myself, and whenever this subject of Asian superiority comes up, part of me can’t help but laugh at the sheer naiveté that some non-Asians tend to display. There are two problems here. First one is that most intelligence tests measure the ability to solve a problem under already existing set of rules and limited amount of time, what some people call a ‘bounded problem’. But this kind of approach can’t separate true geniuses from the mere brights. Actually, there is a real danger that those with more contemplative slant (mathematicians, philosophers, etc) would underperform on these types of exams than, say, engineering majors.

    The truly great ones in Mathematics throughout human history (Newton, Gauss, Euler, Euclid, Riemann, etc.) weren’t merely efficient problem solvers. They were able to come up with revolutionary ideas which in turn became the bedrock of the growing subject field, often spawning new areas of inquiry. When people casually refer to Whites being more creative than Asians, this is what they are talking about. It’s not that Asians can’t invent new technology, they certainly can, but in terms of ideas, well, not so much.

    Which leads to the second problem that Asians face as a group, and it has to with their personality profile. We think of creativity as some sort vague kind of intelligence, but as I see it creativity is not what you possess in a positive sense with all its concrete features, but what you get as a side-effect of being less constrained, cognitively and behaviorally.

    For instance, Blacks are not very intelligent in general, but they can be very creative at times, as evidenced by their over-representation in music and other types of entertainment industry. Even in the way they talk and communicate, there is this spontaneous brilliance to it, of which you can rarely find in Asian cultures (I actually think Asians are the worst oral communicators among the major races, but that’s a whole another issue.)

    So, in a way Blacks have the potential to be more creative than Whites and Asians, but it’s never fully realized due to their low IQ and lack of mental discipline, which gives them that creative spirit in the first place. It also explains why, on average, they are more prone to committing crimes than other racial groups (In psychology, creativity is known to be linked with psychopathic traits.) So, ideally what you want is a certain degree of lack of cognitive inhibition, which is the source of creativity, paired with intelligence of more rigid form.

    The interesting thing is that Whites of European decent exactly fall into this category. They are more intelligent than the Blacks in a traditional sense, but also shows greater impulsivity and openness to new experience compared with Asians. Asians, on the other end, are smart, but in a shallow kind of way. Due to their relatively passive and conformist nature, they rarely dare to venture outside of what is accepted as a norm in their community and challenge the orthodoxy. To use Thomas Kuhn’s terminology, ‘paradigm shift’ rarely occurs in Asia.

    Also, Asians are much more collectivistic and their individual life is not centered around chasing life-long dreams and self-actualization. They study and grind hard, not to be great at something, but to be ‘perceived as’ great at something. In other words, it’s all about the labels and reputation, not the actual work itself. Sure, they excel at every academic assessment you can throw at them, but very few are genuinely interested in academics. You will be surprised at how many Asians will just flat out give up on learning if it’s not attached to attaining degrees from prestigious universities and elevated social status. Westerners praise the work ethic and academic achievement of Asians all the time, but it’s actually much more superficial than you guys think.

    I recommend reading this article by Robert Henderson “Why Have Asians Not Dominated? High intelligence may not be enough”

    http://www.amren.com/archives/back-issues/october-2009/#cover

    He summarizes my point of view very well, and lays out, in my view, the most accurate analysis as to why Asians have not dominated the world and never will.

    • Replies: @Equalizer
  485. Seraphim says:
    @Salger

    Strangely enough, my answer to your rather silly question did not come through. I pointed out that I was in good company (I am not alone asking this question):
    “Will the West Survive the Century?”, by Pat Buchanan, July 6, [email protected]://www.unz.com/pbuchanan/will-the-west-survive-the-century/
    Irrespective of that, I still cannot see why any progress in printing of your dick (head) can be flaunted as an ‘accomplishment’ of the ‘West’ (as opposed to the ‘Rest’).
    But have you gone through any college at all?

    • Replies: @Salger
  486. Seraphim says:
    @PandaAtWar

    Thank you, you make my day. Not because you ‘agree with me’, but because of the joy which results naturally from the convergence of ideas. I have a soft spot for a ‘mythological-poetic’ approach to the serious problems of life (I always fancied that I was a ‘poet’ – just half-joking, sigh). But there is a very precise mathematic reason why the Pole ‘polarizes’ (and also mathematically ‘orients’) our thoughts (and lives, after all).
    So, ‘poetically’ speaking, the North-East (aka, ‘Orient’) is the abode of Light and the South-West (aka ‘Occident’) is the abode of Darkness (of that ‘outer darkness’ where the worthless servant is thrown into, ‘where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth’).
    In other ‘poetical’ perspective the ‘North’ is the home of the ‘Ursa Major’, of all the ‘Bears’ (Polar, Russian, Panda).

    • Replies: @nanashi
  487. Salger says:
    @Seraphim

    Go cry about colonialism and slavery in your ethnic studies class. And rape culture in your Gender Studies class.

    It’s no wonder that the likes of Steven Pinker takes shots at the “social sciences” when you look at Seraphim. To it, some Dindus in Africa are totally equal in learning to the men exploring the human genome over in the “West”.

  488. nanashi says:
    @Seraphim

    In the East Asian (roughly equal to “ancient Chinese” or “Daoist”) worldview, the Northeast is the direction from which ghosts and/or demons enter (鬼門 “ghost/demon gate”). When overlaid upon the East Asian zodiac with the first sign (i.e. Rat) aligned with North, the Northeast direction falls between Ox and Tiger, so characteristics of those animals are often used in Asian depictions of demons. (However, in non-zodiacal contexts, the tiger is associated with the western direction, as are the color white and the element metal/gold.) Sometimes, the Southwest is viewed as an opposing “anti-demon gate” (in Japanese, 裏鬼門 “backside ghost/demon gate”), and this direction falls between Ram and Monkey, so characteristics of those animals may be used in depictions of protective spirits or lucky charms. (However, some folks take a view that the “anti-demon gate” of the Southwest is fundamentally just as evil or unlucky as the “demon gate” of the Northeast.) Ultimately, these ideas may stem from the association of East and South with yang (“light,” “active,” or “masculine” principle) and the association of West and North with yin (“dark,” “passive,” or “feminine” principle). In the Northeast, North (= yin) meets East (= yang), creating instability. In the Southwest, South (= yang) meets West (= yin), likewise creating instability.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Seraphim
  489. Talha says:
    @nanashi

    I have little clue what all you guys (Panda & Seraphim included) are talking about – but it is actually very interesting – thanks for the insights!

    So Southeast is the place to be? Are those the Aussies and the Kiwis from that vantage point?

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Salger
  490. Salger says:
    @Talha

    Australia isn’t a SJWtopia. Especially since Pauline Hanson got back into parliament.

    • Replies: @Art
    , @Talha
  491. Art says:
    @Salger

    Australia isn’t a SJWtopia. Especially since Pauline Hanson got back into parliament.

    What is SJW — thanks

    • Replies: @pink_point
  492. Talha says:
    @Salger

    Hey Salger,

    So maybe that’s nanashi’s point; that it is not the abode of a demon-gate…

    Peace.

  493. Seraphim says:
    @nanashi

    The yin and the yang contain each the seed of the opposite. They permanently transform into each other.

  494. @Art

    Acronym for ‘Social Justice Warrior.’

    • Replies: @Art
  495. Salger says:
    @CanSpeccy

    The lack of advancements by Sub-Saharan Africans and noticeably lower IQ of American Blacks works you’re habit of pretending “culture” outweighs biology.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  496. Salger says:
    @Anonymous

    You outed yourself as a SJW. Go protest about Whites doing what other races have done (slavery, invasions of other lands, mass killings, what have you) in your Ethnic Studies class. Then you can cry on your Twitter account about “White Privilege”.

  497. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Salger

    The lack of advancements by Sub-Saharan Africans and noticeably lower IQ of American Blacks works you’re habit of pretending “culture” outweighs biology.

    I was not pretending nothing.

    I was presenting evidence of the fact that Western domination of the world during the historical period just ending could be attributed to tiny elites with highly unusual cultural characteristics totally different from those of the majority among whom they live.

    That being the case, there is no reason to suppose that Sub-Saharan Africans are incapable of the most advanced cultural achievements since we know that however low their average intelligence, there are many individuals in sub-Saharan Africa of far above the European average of intelligence.

    There is no reason, therefore, to suppose that the most able sub-Saharan Africans are incapable of performing intellectually on the same level as past European elites given the same cultural milieu. Indeed, many of them have become members of European elites, as parliamentarians, high officials in public administration, academics, and artists.

    • Replies: @Santoculto
  498. @CanSpeccy

    there are many individuals in sub-Saharan Africa of far above the European average of intelligence.

    to be above average intelligence is a thing

    to be a higher achiever is a other thing, maybe completely different.

    You can have, pretty vaguely speaking, many people WHO are smarter but they can be just like other native groups ”WITH” higher ‘intelligence’.

    Such ”exchange 6 for half a dozen”…

    As happen with many smarter subgroups of the africans and chineses in UK, for example.

    What really differentiates qualitatively is

    creativity

    and please, why not, WISDOM

    In other words, ”smarter” people who really will contribute positively to the nation that they choose to live and not just to become like other native ‘or’ autochtonous ‘smarter’ subgroups.

    what europeans has produced more than other groups since a long time are high achievers, like Isaac Newton or Charles Darwin. This people tend to force their nation to move forward, to ‘evolve’…

    if chineses had a minority of potential high achievers as Europe has had, especially from the end of the Middle Ages, so I believe that any change could have happened from that time until at least the nineteenth century.

    I believe that the emergence of the bourgeoisie in Europe during the Middle Ages, was an important role to increase the cognitive intelligence of its population, and to the point of producing a minority of the ” precious ” creative geniuses of all categories, read even in an organized chaotic societies such as those that have prevailed in Europe, that is, that are far from perfect in relation to their macro-social organizations.

    The bourgeoisie emerged as the most intelligent plebeians decided to organize as a socio-economic intermediate class between the nobility and ordinary workers, the servants.

    This population was increasing demographically according to their economic success. We can say that because of the ” enterpeneurs’ ‘, investors or patrons that Europe has become a technological civilization high level, surpassing the existing ones, such as China, while China selected the smart subclass we understand as’ bureaucrats ”, which tend to be socially conformist, cognitively intelligent and economically stable. Intelligent cognitive masses who work for the government.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  499. Art says:
    @pink_point

    Acronym for ‘Social Justice Warrior.’ thanks opi!

    Am 100%, totally, irrevocably pro private enterprise.

    Am also 100%, totally, irrevocably, pro social justice – I believe that all people within a culture should be treated with dignity, and that they should share in the bounty, that the society produces.

    I also 100%, totally, irrevocably believe that the current banking stockownership cartel is hurting enterprise and social justice.

    I also 100%, totally, irrevocably believe that the current banking stockownership cartel controls Western governments.

    I also 100%, totally, irrevocably believe that the current banking stockownership cartel must die.

    Art

  500. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Santoculto

    What really differentiates qualitatively is creativity

    Creativity is surely an important component of civilizational development. But creativity emerges only in a nurturing cultural environment. Mozart owed his extraordinary musical development to his father’s commitment to the development of his children’s talent. The biographies of other creative geniuses, that of Newton, for example, or Richard Feynman point to the same conclusion: culture is critical.

    Sub-Saharan African culture adapts its adherents to tribal life and a primitive agricultural or hunter gatherer economy, in which the those acculturated as were Mozart, Newton or Feyneman would likely have failed to survive.

    Inter-population differences in IQ arise largely if not solely from such cultural differences: hence the Flynn effect, the rise in IQ from generation to generation as societies become modernized, a process that has furthest to go in societies with the lowest IQs.

    Population differences in IQ dependent on genetics are not of much significance since, in the modern world, the relevant genes can flow freely among populations and will accumulate rapidly in any society where high IQ promotes reproductive success.

    The importance of selection is evident from trends in Western society, where high IQ has a negative influence on reproductive success. We can expect, therefore, that any difference between high and low IQ societies will disappear within a generation or two as all adopt the same moron Western culture with it’s negative selective effect on IQ.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Santoculto
  501. Talha says:
    @CanSpeccy

    Hey CanSpeccy,

    where high IQ has a negative influence on reproductive success

    Fine point sir! I mentioned this in another post; the fact that we are seeing declining birth rates in the places with highest IQ might correlate to a selection against too high of an IQ among human beings – an upper limit. Just as there may be an upper limit to muscle to mass ratio, high lung capacity, or anything else that may on the surface seem to have a select advantage when looked at in isolation. It may be that wanting to isolate the races based on IQ differential may be completely counter-productive to the actual survival needs of the high IQ population.

    Darwinism’s hindsight is 20/20, but it really doesn’t know a predictive method of figuring out the most advantageous traits per any organism until the dust clears – there are far too many variables at work. Only the fittest survive, how do we know? They survived because they were the fittest.

    I guess we’ll see…

    May God vouchsafe intelligence and (more importantly) wisdom in you and your progeny.

    • Replies: @Art
  502. Art says:
    @Talha

    Fine point sir! I mentioned this in another post; the fact that we are seeing declining birth rates in the places with highest IQ might correlate to a selection against too high of an IQ among human beings – an upper limit.

    Cannot comment on an upper limit of intelligence. But can question those who chose an intellectual life over a fully engaged family cultural life.

    For 99% of everyone – the longest lasting thing that we can do is raise quality children. Our children will outlast our intellectual output.

    I have witnessed business owners who spent their entire adult life building a company, only to have what they created be changed within three years of their leaving. The buildings remain – but the flavor of the company is forever changed. The essence of the company is gone.

    This is true of most all intellectual creations in the business world – they are significantly changed or soon discarded – there is nothing static in business. That is not to say that the creativity is not satisfying, only to say those efforts are short lived.

    Woman who leave the raising of their children to others for business pursuits, are losing their opportunity to make a long-term mark on society.

    Leaving a fortune to low quality children is the ruin of many a culture.

    • Replies: @Talha
  503. @CanSpeccy

    Creativity is surely an important component of civilizational development. But creativity emerges only in a nurturing cultural environment. Mozart owed his extraordinary musical development to his father’s commitment to the development of his children’s talent. The biographies of other creative geniuses, that of Newton, for example, or Richard Feynman point to the same conclusion: culture is critical.

    We will go back again…

    seems little bizarre but ”environment” is not a thing…

    no there a nurturing-cultural environment — thing, creative people fundamentally born that way and sometimes the environment is tolerant and even openly favorable to them, many times not.

    Mozart owed his extraordinary musical development

    I don’t deny favorable circumstances but the most important it can be, never will be more important than a huge necessity of the existence of the creatively bright people. So, you can have the best of the environments but no creative geniuses emerge because simply they don’t exist there. And you can have the worst of the environments and have the existence of this rare people there.

    Please, we must learn how to refute point by point the comments.

    But creativity emerges only in a nurturing cultural environment

    No. Biological creativity emerges only among families with this genetic suscetibilities.

    Creative ACHIEVERS may emerges more commonly in favorable environments.

    Sub-Saharan African culture adapts its adherents to tribal life and a primitive agricultural or hunter gatherer economy, in which the those acculturated as were Mozart, Newton or Feyneman would likely have failed to survive.

    Why not**

    This is an assumption that is possibly wrong if ‘more intelligent’ people can learn more quickly and efficiently and in simpler societies they, on avg, are likely to learn quickly how to survive. Maybe some physical disability of some or most of them can confabulate partially with your statement.

    Inter-population differences in IQ arise largely if not solely from such cultural differences: hence the Flynn effect, the rise in IQ from generation to generation as societies become modernized, a process that has furthest to go in societies with the lowest IQs.

    I do not know what is the flynn effect. Realizes that the flynn effect has been observed but little understood. If you understand it better, tell us, for now [seems] no one knows exactly what it is.

    Population differences in IQ dependent on genetics are not of much significance since, in the modern world, the relevant genes can flow freely among populations and will accumulate rapidly in any society where high IQ promotes reproductive success.

    Maybe only if most people become intelligently similar, a priori. In all, it is a hasty statement on your part. ” Iq ‘, the best mental game that exists, will continue’ ‘dependent’ ‘genetics even in better societies/environments.

    The importance of selection is evident from trends in Western society, where high IQ has a negative influence on reproductive success. We can expect, therefore, that any difference between high and low IQ societies will disappear within a generation or two as all adopt the same moron Western culture with it’s negative selective effect on IQ.

    probably correct, unfortunately.

    or not…

  504. Talha says:
    @Art

    Right on Art! I’ll take it a step further, how many a king have you read about in history that spent years amassing a huge amount of territory and did not teach his sons enough about character, such that, before his body had gone cold, the sons were at each other’s throats and ripping his entire legacy apart. If the losing son was lucky, he could hope to simply be blinded and/or locked up in a tower.

    May God preserve you and your progeny with honor!

  505. nebula says: • Website

    Why Have Asians Not Dominated? High intelligence may not be enough.

    http://www.amren.com/archives/back-issues/october-2009/#cover