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Gun Control: Hawglegs and Hawgwash

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Since Hillary has presumably gone to a home for used basilisks, we will perhaps hear less about gun control for a bit. As in, maybe, eight years.

The unending drive to outlaw firearms remains fascinating in various ways, first in that it represents a desire for conclusive abandonment of constitutional government. This is far along in other spheres–jury trial, speedy trial, jury of peers, declaration of war, warrantless search. Recently we have had a clear intention by a major party simply to ignore such constitutional provisions as it finds inconvenient.

Of course many of their voters couldn’t name two rights guaranteed by the First Amendment–surreys show that white college graduates cannot–and a substantial portion can’t read. Constitutional government requires an informed public. America doesn’t have one.

The orators profess to believe that banning guns will end murder. The actual effects of gun control are very different. This is a matter of observation, and thus has no place in political discussion. Just for the hell of it–it will make no difference–let’s actually look at the question.

The two most heavily armed countries in the world are (still, I think) Israel and Switzerland. In Switzerland, men of military age are (still, I think) required to keep an assault rifle and ammunition in their homes, and Israelis are similarly armed because, having enemies on their borders, they need to be able to mobilize rapidly.

In both countries murders by armed citizens are essentially nonexistent. By contrast, Mexico has strict gun control. Does anyone get shot in Mexico?

Yes, actually. Some 164,000 shot dead between 2007 and 2014 (Figures vary. The foregoing are typical.) Pretty effective, gun control is.

Why do murders occur so exuberantly in a country with gun control? Because making guns illegal doesn’t make guns go away. In Mexico gun control means that criminals can have, and assuredly do have, high-powered military weapons, usually AKs–cuernos de chiva. Thus a dozen narcos can enter a large town and terrorize it. If a hundred men in the town had AR-15s, the dozen narcos would enter the town in pickups and forthwith leave in boxes. Gun control leaves the town disarmed and helpless.

Which has occurred to Mexicans:

Mexico considers new gun laws to arm its citizens against violent crime”

In a country in which the government cannot or will not enforce the laws and protect citizens–the United States comes to mind–said citizens will want to protect themselves. This is happening in Mexico. In a recent example in Mexico City (this from newspaper accounts) four robbers, armed, boarded a public bus and collected wallets and cell phones from the passengers. One passenger drew a pistol and shot all four, killing one. The other three, badly wounded, got off the bus. The passenger followed, finished them off, gave the loot back to the other passengers, and disappeared into the city. Curiously, not one of the passengers was able to describe him. Maybe they were not paying attention.

Perhaps not optimal, but in a country plagued by looting, arson, racial attacks, and destructive brawls by vandals, people are going to want to protect themselves. Surprise, surprise.

If guns were made illegal in the US, not a single villain would turn his gun in. The bumper sticker, “When guns are criminal, only criminals will have guns,” is exactly right.Guns, usually small and easily smuggled, are immensely valuable to criminals. Why would they turn them in? Criminals do not obey laws. It’s how you know they are criminals.

Curiously, the fewer guns in the hands of the law-abiding, the more valuable they are to criminals. When citizens may be armed, crawling in a window at night becomes much less attractive. And of course gun control would mean disarming white people, who tend to obey laws. Having witnessed Baltimore, Ferguson, and Charlotte, many whites are not enthusiastic about being left helpless.

One must never say this.

Gun-controllers, unless they are greater fools than seems humanly possible–they may well be–know that criminals are not going to turn their guns in, and there is no way to confiscate them. They also know, unless actually mad, that criminals are overwhelmingly black. Do the controllers propose to send the army through black regions of Chicago, searching houses room by room to find hidden guns? Hardly.

When of a hundred murders in Chicago, almost all are committed by an underclass, do we have a gun problem, or an underclass problem? Do blacks have a white problem, a gun problem, or a themselves problem?

Obama of course blamed guns for the shooting deaths in Chicago. Can he really believe this? It is like the obese blaming spoons.

It is verboten to notice that crime with guns is heavily concentrated in particular groups. I grew up in rural Virginia where all the boys and Becky had guns, chiefly shotguns for hunting deer and rifles for killing varmints. Nobody shot anybody, either deliberately or otherwise. Murder wasn’t in the culture. We couldn’t understand why our guns should be taken away because criminals in the cities wanted to kill each other.

I once spent a week with the US Army in the slums of Port au Prince in Haiti, where guns were illegal. Nobody was shot. Instead brains were laid open and arms severed by machete. It was in the culture.

But of course gun control is only tangentially about gun control. The controllers detest gun owners viscerally as they imagine them, aging white Southern yahoos or Western cowboys with potbellies and third-grade educations who are probably werewolves, Republicans or even conservatives. Deplorables. Note that they never criticize the killers, the Islamoterrorists, the blacks in the cities massacring each other with abandon, or the Hispanic narcos engaged in auto-extermination. The controllers simply dislike white conservatives or, more profoundly, those who are emotionally independent and not of the mentality of the hive. Guns are innocent bystanders.

ORDER IT NOW

If a woman tells me that she favors gun control, I can with confidence predict that she favors unchecked immigration, sanctuary cities, affirmative action, banning the Confederate flag, suppressing Christianity, homosexual marriage, abortion, feminism, and the dumbing down–she will call it something else–of schools to avoid wounding the self-esteem of the usual suspects.

The question of guns demarcates a sharp dividing line between who read the New York Times and those for whom it is the house organ of a class of people they detest. This is the Trumpo-Hillarian Chasm. New York, which controls the country with Washington as its action arm, is not particularly cognizant of what goes on in the rest of the US. The imposition of political correctness prevents New York from hearing anything it doesn’t like, but also prevents it from knowing the extent to which people believe things New York doesn’t want to hear. Thus their surprise at the rise of Trump, which anyone could have suspected after an hour in Joe’s Bar in Chicago.

Here we reach the great divide. I read gun dealers saying that, after the murders in Orlando, post murdered cop after murdered cop, burning mall after looted store, AR-15s were “flying off the shelves.” Why? The gun is not accurate enough for serious marksmen, illegal I think in most places for hunting, and not well suited for killing intruders in the home, being long enough to be awkward in a confined space.

An AR is however well suited for defense of one’s home or business against rampaging mobs. It is long enough to be accurate at urban ranges, suited to rapid single-shot firing, has a large magazine, and fires military .223 ammo. You don’t suppose…?

A great many people, including me, think that “civil unrest” may be in America’s future as the economy declines, the middle class sinks, and racial hostility deepens. As the pie shrinks, someone has to get less pie. If welfare is cut, whether directly or by inflation, riots will come. Riots will occur in any event, since they already do. Blacks are dangerously angry, and are ready to rock and roll. Think Ferguson, Baltimore, LA, Milwaukee. It may not happen. But it may, looks increasingly probable, and people who would lose their jobs for saying so are preparing.

Thus the desire to get an AR or two and a thousand rounds before the government–which much of the country regards as an enemy--can shut down sales and leave them helpless, a la Mexico. In private conversation the question is explicitly racial–though one must never, ever, point out the obvious. These are people who–choose your verb, “know” or “believe”–that a Ferguson mob can come to their neighborhood and–here no choice of verbs is needed–that the recent President, Attorney General, the government, the blacks, New York, the RNC and DNC, and the media, are against them.

In Washington and New York, the Virulently Good who live in high-rises with security desks will react with horror at the thought of buying a rifle for self-defense. “How could the….?” “Why would anyone…?” “What is wrong with these…?” Their outlook rests on the belief that nothing really bad can happen. Which means that if it does, they will be toast. And that, in a morbid way, will be amusing.

(Reprinted from Fred on Everything by permission of author or representative)
 
• Category: Ideology • Tags: Gun Control, Political Correctness 

166 Comments to "Gun Control: Hawglegs and Hawgwash"

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  1. One of best blogs I have ever read, Let the truth be told.

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  2. At least as far back as 1976, R. Bruce Briggs’s Great American Gun War observed that the issue of firearms restrictions was a proxy for a fundamental division between “bedrock” and “cosmopolitan” America. That gap has only widened since then. The fact that bedrock America has largely won on this, if few other, issues, only infuriates cosmopolitan America more. I wonder how cosmopolitan America would react if a BLM mob is repulsed by white gun owners with dozens or hundreds of casualties.

    I wouldn’t sell the AR-15 short in a home defense situation. If the defender takes up a position from which he has even 5-7 yards in front of him and the gun is already on the shoulder, it should do just fine. It’s not my choice, but it’s not a bad one. If you’re engaging adversaries at even medium rifle ranges, an individual marksman, or even a small group is, I think, better off with strong sporters than military ordnance. But other qualified people think differently and they’re entitled to their choice.

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  3. Given their history of uprisings, I’m guessing Mexican gov is not too keen on allowing citizens greater access to firearms, even if it reduces crime.

  4. I would almost agree with all this, but what of Dylan Roof, the Sandy Hook shooter, Anders Brievik & co.? Lone wolves?

    • Troll: CK, Rurik
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  5. Lazy arguments based on false definitions.

    The issue is not about how many guns are out there. The issue is access for those who might commit crimes.
    Switzerland gun ownership is not by choice, but by military service.
    Mexico gun laws may be strict, but gun control is sloppy.

    It is many times easier to get a gun illegally in Mexico than legally or illegally in Switzerland.

    Your twisting facts to get a pre-judged conclusion.
    (Shame, I like a lot of your stuff)

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  6. It will be amusing if the cops and the infantry decide to let the cosmo boys and girls disarm us themselves since they think it is such a great idea. Meanwhile, they can get high sniffing the smoke where the rioters have set their exclusive ivory tower on fire while rattling the gates of their gated community after the rent a cops ran away with the keys. I am considering renting out my town dump and moving to the high country where lots of cross hill folk with well used deer guns can help me entertain company that isn’t welcome.
    As for the lone wolf, I take a SIG full of Hornady and a Kershaw to church. Those who don’t will find a claw hammer less expensive and better than paper wads.

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  7. AR’s won’t make you a 1,000 yard, Wimbledon Cup winner, but they are remarkably accurate for a small caliber auto-loader. The mechanical tolerances are pretty tight and the bullet weights, shape and rifling twist have been optimized as the design has been refined. At 100 yards, some high quality AR’s such as the Colt version, approach the one minute of angle precision of good bolt action rifles, and they are still pretty tight out to 400 yards. The accuracy advantage over Kalashnikovs and civilian versions of other assault rifles has been one of the attractions of the design.

  8. Hey mtncur,

    Packing in the pews!!! It may seem silly – until the one time it isn’t.

    Here’s praying you never have to use it, especially in church.

    Fred is onto something; this is definitely a bridge between city-dwellers and rural folk – the divide runs through many countries of the world. My friend married a girl from some part of Syria – apparently some time during high school in her area, they taught all the girls how to field strip an AK-47. Different strokes…

    Peace.

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  9. says:
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    Mr. Reed, it’s simple.

    Jews control the US, and they hate the idea of all those gentiles with guns. Jews want all the guns in the state that they control. That way, American people will have no means to defend themselves when the state comes after them.

    In contrast, even Liberal American Jews love the idea of every Jewish family having automatic rifle in Israel because Jews are the majority who use guns against Arab ‘barbarians’.

    But on a more pragmatic basis, whites want guns because they are physically no match for stronger and more aggressive blacks,
    A white will be Willie-Hortonized in a confrontation with a black guy. He needs a gun to defend his family from black thugs. Zimmerman was saved by a gun.

    Also, with broken borders and marauding illegals all along the SW border, Americans need guns to protect property. Think NO COUNTRY FOR OLD MEN. Reed knows a lot of decent peaceable Mexicans, but things get pretty hairy along the borderlands.

    Now, I don’t like guns. Never owned them, never fired them..

    I would be for extremely tight gun laws in a nation that is patriotic, secure, and homogeneous(and has no blacks).

    But US is not that country.

    US is closer to this, and people need guns.

  10. A tool is a tool. In the hands of a craftsman or an artist a tool can do great things, in the hands of a wood butcher a tool is a dull thing indeed; a sad reflection of the ineptitude of the wielder.
    Spray and pray is not the way.

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  11. says:
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    “If guns were made illegal in the US, not a single villain would turn his gun in.”

    It’s not just that. Suppose the government could take away all guns. Suppose no one had guns, not even criminals.

    It would still not solve the black problem because blacks would still be advantaged in muscle power.

    Blacks would still beat up whites, rob whites, and rape whites. Why? Blacks can physically overpower whites.

    Watch Colin Flaherty’s youtube channel, and so much of black thuggery is physical and don’t involve guns.

    HBD’s big problem is concentration on mind than muscle. Blacks are not problematic because of lower intelligence but higher “physigence”. They are standard deviation higher than whites in predatory fighting ability.

  12. says:
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    “In a country in which the government cannot or will not enforce the laws and protect citizens–the United States comes to mind–said citizens will want to protect themselves. This is happening in Mexico.”

    Some things never change.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLbp2Av1Y8Y

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  13. Some piss poor advice is being dispensed in this comment section. For home defense, you do NOT want a mil style assault rifle like the AR-15. These toys are very expensive, prone to jamming, finicky with respect to ammo, small caliber lacking knock down power, spray evidence (empty cases) everywhere, and look very bad in court (especially when tricked out with laser optics, large capacity clips, flash hiders, etc). Keep it simple…..a 30-30 deer rifle or a 12 gauge bird gun. “Your honor, I was scared so I grabbed my trusty deer rifle ( or bird gun) from behind the kitchen door and……” sounds a lot better. If you ever have to use a firearm in self-defense, the legal and social ramifications are enormous and beyond anything you have ever dealt with previously. Best to try to skate….dispose of the body if there are no witnesses. If off your property, do not stick around. If you do stick around like a dummy, never talk to the cops….ask for an attorney immediately and remain silent. If you get sued civilly, most home owner policies exclude liability coverage for self-defense (intentional) shootings i.e. you are on your own and your assets are at risk. For example, the law in some states requires you to retreat as far as possible EVEN IN YOUR OWN HOME before pulling the trigger. There is nothing more pathetic than a regular middle class person with a job, assets, and no record enmeshed in the legal system…….

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  14. John Jeremiah Smith [AKA "MCPO USN"]
    says:
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    Anon, old boy, how about you go out and watch some movies, and leave the commentgruppen the hell alone? I am not interested in movies, do not read this blog for movies, and have a remarkably low opinion of assholes who get off on shoving cinema shit in other people’s faces. It is the ultimate expression of illiteracy. Knock it off.

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  15. says:
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  16. In terms of advice given in selection of a home defense firearm, I have never heard better than that dispensed by Jeff Cooper in a 1970s book on the subject. I’m paraphrasing, but the advice went something like this. If you shoot regularly for fun, you will have already made your choice and my advice is simple: Good, go with that. The confidence that you will have in your choice, and its familiarity, will be more advantageous than any drawbacks associated with that particular weapon. (So if you actually spent your time at the range with a fully tricked-out AR-15 and that’s your selection, I concur. I’m not sure that the appearance of the weapon involved in a shooting will make that much difference even in court, and it’s more important to “win your war” and survive the encounter.)

    If you don’t shoot regularly for fun, you should forget about a handgun and go with a short shoulder braced weapon, either a shotgun or a self-loading carbine.

    Your advice about justifiably shooting someone is very good. George Zimmerman was fully justified in his action, as was Darren Wilson, and it wrecked their lives.

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  17. Yeah, the Swiss keep their military rifles locked in their closets, along with a sealed box of ammo, but what does it have to do with anything? A handgun permit is hard to get, and of course everything is registered and government-regulated and controlled.

    Here in central Europe (outside Switzerland) private ownership of guns is virtually non-existent, and yet I never heard of criminals with AKs stopping a bus or robbing a train or shopping mall. You can get your bike stolen, yes, domestic violence, apartment gets robbed when no one is home, a junkie stabs store clerk, but that’s about it.

    I think violent crime of the US-Mexico scale is a symptom of some very serious sickness in society, a collapse of the ‘social contract’, and it can’t be cured by more guns or less guns. It’s something else.

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  18. Right now we have a situation where you’re advocating the unfettered ownership of guns by law-abiding citizens because there are so many already in the hands of gangsters – you are saying that the assurance of police protection is insufficient and that Americans must have the ability to use guns to defend themselves. You have a point.

    The “constitution” has allowed almost everybody to acquire a firearm and there is a vast and influential lobby to protect an industry of staggering size – one of the few manufacturing industries not yet outsourced to China – this industry’s mission is to arm as many ‘Americans’ as possible, regardless of who they are. Their motivation is not public safety.

    This has effectively meant that anybody, however irresponsible; however dumb; however criminal, is presently able to get hold of a gun with the greatest of ease.

    Would you still be demanding your constitutional rights if gun ownership in the USA was on the level of, say, Britain’s? If things were reset at this level would you then agree that very stringent controls were needed on the movement of guns and on who could become a gun owner?

    On top of all this is the ‘American’ (meaning here US) gun culture where youngsters walk around waving real guns the way kids in other countries wave toy ones – this they have seen at the movies and on TV and the guns are freely available in the home.

    At some point, however hopeless the situation, you have to apply the brakes – even if it will take a generation or more for the effects to be felt. The weapons in the hands of criminals will likely stay there, and they won’t wear out too soon, but continuing to supply them at the present rate is insanity.

    I think your comparison with Mexico is false: the proximity of the USA, the motivation of the industry and the permeable border allow firearms to flow into the hands of gangsters with the greatest of ease – however draconian the laws against ownership there.

    As a footnote, your instance of Israel having high gun ownership and a low murder rate is questionable when you bear in mind that the shooting of Palestinians is pretty well fair game over there – as it is always done in self defense.

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  19. Best to try to skate….dispose of the body if there are no witnesses.

    Very bad advice, unless you really want to convict a person of multiple felonies.

    If off your property, do not stick around.

    More bad advice. The guilty flee when none pursue. Men have been convicted of murder for what should have been self defense simply because they left the scene like a guilty person.

    Your rantings about the AR are just so much more balderdash.

    You are right, don’t talk to the cops, let your lawyer do that.

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  20. “it can’t be cured by more guns or less guns”: yup – the whole shemozzle is just a distraction.

  21. You obviously have never been dragged through the court system……a mugging is short, merciful, and inexpensive by comparison.

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  22. Had business dealings with Cooper’s Gunsite Academy. He promoted the bulky 45 auto with its three way safety system for personal defense….toted around cocked and locked. Better to go with a small revolver like the M60 snub nose…..safer, no jamming, less maintenance, smaller and lighter, and does not spray evidence (empty cases everywhere). Famously, Bernie Goetz used the M60 to take down the 4 “youths” who tried to mug him on a NY subway. Middle class mild mannered engineer Bernie waited around for the cops……he was dragged through the court system, bankrupted, and only escaped a lengthy jail sentence because the jury included a few whites. Bernie now runs a squirrel rescue society….good man almost taken down by a crappy system.

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  23. “Here in central Europe ( outside Switzerland ) private ownership of guns is virtually non-existent…”
    That is complete BS. You do not know what you’re talking about.
    Switzerland has approximately 46 guns per 100 persons. France, Germany, Austria all have over 30 per 100 people, as have Sweden, Norway and Iceland. Serbia has even got more than Switzerland – 75 per 1oo. The Czech Republic has 16 per 100. Even the UK – fallaciously believed to have the World’s most stringent laws – has 6.6 per 1oo ( same as Ukraine ), much to the disgust of leftist prohibitionists.
    See Wikipedia Article: Estimated number of guns per capita by country.
    All European countries, with 3 exceptions, have considerable numbers of guns in private hands, many Northern and Central ones have very abundant numbers indeed.
    The 3 exceptions are Lithuania and Romania ( both 0.7 per 100 ) and Poland 1 per 100. In these countries the civilian population can be regarded as to all intents and purposes as disarmed. Obviously, this dates to Communist times when the state wanted to disarm peasants and others.
    Why such a policy has continued, I don’t know – Romania and Lithuania’s are lower than that paragon of gun control – Japan!
    But disarmed civilian population bring other problems in their wake. I suspect it results in a more panicky, less self reliant populace. In the case of Poland and Lithuania, it has caused strong support for Nato Protection and irrational fear of Russian intentions. If Gun ownership were at Swiss or even German levels in these countries, I believe more people would have rational attitudes on these matters.

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  24. Their outlook rests on the belief that nothing really bad can happen. Which means that if it does, they will be toast. And that, in a morbid way, will be amusing.

    Very amusing, but also unlikely to happen. Karma rarely catches up to those who deserve it the most.

  25. … an individual marksman, or even a small group is, I think, better off with strong sporters than military ordnance.

    All of those “sporters” were military grade at one time or another. The advantage of a modern rifle like the AR-15 is its ability to be easily customized to the individual user. However, I think the bullpup format is better for close range rifle situations.

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  26. Good article, but Fred forgets that the 2nd Amendment has nothing to do with home defense and exists to offer armed resistance against a criminal government just like the one we have now. It is the reason I favor removing all restrictions on arms purchases. We need more RPGs and other heavier weapons to truly dissuade the government from its current predations on us citizens. Waco has taught us that the government will use tanks against us.

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  27. You’re avoiding the facts because you have none to stand on. Do you think most blacks are buying their guns legally?

  28. That is Fred’s style. He is basically full of shit. Fred has no integrity, and his articles demonstrate his deceptive personality.

    In case you don’t know Fred is married to a Jewish woman who frequently cheats on him with various Mexican men.

  29. Actually I do know what I’m taking about, because I live here (not in Serbia, in an EU country, former Soviet block). Your wikipedia estimates could mean various things; I’m telling you what I see and what I know. As for Switzerland, yes, I should’ve said “handgun carrying permit is hard to get”. Otherwise, I stand by it.

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  30. Agreed. However, Zimmerman and Hero Darren Wilson shot black people – that is why their lives were ruined. If they had shot White people, or if they had been black themselves it wouldn’t have made a blip on the radar and no one would have cared.

    Nothing of any value was lost when Mike Brown and Trayvon “trash can” Martin were put down. It is my suspicion that both of them would have eventually died at the hands of another negroid had they lived a little longer.

    In a home invasion situation being armed is a must. There is a very short window of time before you are either shot or put at gun point. I had a friend who had a used a samurai sword to defend himself from a burglar. He didn’t intend on using the sword, it was more of a novelty item, but it was readily available when he needed it.

  31. So much wrong with what you write. First, no one here in the USA can buy a gun without a background check, and no minor can buy a gun at all. So your, “youngsters walk around waving real guns the way kids in other countries wave toy ones”, is a figment of your overactive imagination. Either that or you’ve drunk the lying LSM koolaid.

    Secondly, Mexicans get most of their illegal guns from sources other than the US. This is true even after our shithead president let thousands of illegal guns walk across the border into Mexico.

    Your “if” game for a nonexistent reality is as ignorant as you thinking it is a real question.

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  32. says:
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    Well, in answer to your primary assertion, yes, culture has a lot more to do with violence than the prevalence of guns in private hands.
    I think you may have a distorted idea of the U.S., though. Nobody, except maybe off-duty cops, carries a handgun around in Northeastern cities or suburbs (my part of the country) by daylight. The handguns we do have, including those of all the people I know who own one, are generally kept at home, locked and stored separately from ammunition, exactly like your description of the Swiss and their rifles; ditto for hunting rifles. I doubt the situation is that much different in those parts of Europe where shooting is still a pastime; the only possible difference I note from your description is that American clerks sometimes keep a gun under the counter.
    I should add that, yes, concealed carry exists, but it isn’t common where I am.
    American legal gun owners don’t fear each other, they fear certain specific elements of society which are much rarer in Europe. Should la Sra. Merkel and those who think like her have their way, and should the new population of Europe’s cities become an American-style phenomenon, these fears will cross the ocean.
    The situation in North Mexico is a different kettle of fish altogether. Arming people might help, and I don’t see how it could possibly make things any worse.
    Here’s hoping your section of Europe (central Europe in Soviet bloc means only East Germany to Americans, though I can see how it could also mean the Bohemian part of Czechoslovakia) stays the happy land it seems to be.

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  33. Excellent stuff.

    Obama of course blamed guns for the shooting deaths in Chicago. Can he really believe this? It is like the obese blaming spoons.

    Quality!

  34. …dragged through the court system……a mugging is short, merciful, and inexpensive by comparison.

    And that’s the truth!

  35. says:
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    This is true. However, if you try to destroy evidence of a shooting you are very likely in for a much worse dragging.

  36. I should add that, yes, concealed carry exists, but it isn’t common where I am.

    In rural parts of the South the default assumption is that if you see a pickup, there’s a weapon in it. The main exception is when companies prohibit them even in the parking lot of a job or business, but many ignore that prohibition.

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  37. I know, I always thought of these countries as ‘eastern Europe’ myself too, but they don’t like it here, and they tend to correct you: ‘we are central Europe’. So, now I’m used to it; who cares, don’t matter.

    Yeah, I lived in the US, North East, too and I do understand what you’re saying, but surely there’s a huge difference between, say, eastern MA vs NH (outside of the southern part where MA liberals live). I’ve known some real ‘gun nuts’ (and I mean no insult, the nicest people) there.

    I think the biggest difference is that you won’t find any ghettos in these parts. Some gypsy villages, but nothing like the US. It’s more homogeneous, less unequal…

  38. woodNfish: I always try to avoid being personal.

    May I mention gun fairs as a ready source of firearms for those who need to avoid the background checks? Also there are Dark Web vendors (and not so dark either) delighted to do a deal and no questions asked.

    As for youngsters waving guns around, how often have we seen a case where one kid accidentally shot another kid? I am willing to bet you that this happens 50 times more often in the US than in, say, UK.

    Of course there is massive cross border gun-running into Mexico.

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  39. Former police officer and armed defense professional Massad Ayoob’s advice on what will happen 9 times out of 10 if you just skip out after a shooting. “If you didn’t see any witnesses to the shooting, don’t worry, you’ll get to see them at your trial”.
    I like his advice; use only factory ammo instead of custom hand loads that will be described as flesh-mangling, exploding bullets, don’t customize your weapon with too many Rambo accessories, don’t tamper with the body or any other evidence, do not talk to any reporters under any circumstances, do not say a word to the police until your lawyer arrives.

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  40. Ever been to a gun show? No, of course you haven’t which is why you don’t know what you are talking about them or your other two replies. Most of the illegal guns in Mexico come across its southern border. Kids accidentally shooting each other is a rarity in homes with legal guns.

    And while you may think I am being personal by calling you ignorant, your answers prove it is not personal, just factual. You really do not know what you are talking about, so you should just stop.

  41. Ayoob’s advice was what I had in mind. Another thing to remember, something that didn’t exist when Ayoob first wrote about skipping out, there are cameras everywhere now days. Cell phone tracking and automobile GPS makes lying about your whereabouts a fool’s errand unless you live in the middle of the woods.

    CSI isn’t as magic as they show on TV, but they can find blood traces you thought you cleaned up and they can tell if a body has been moved.

  42. no one here in the USA can buy a gun without a background check

    Not true. In my state, I can buy any non NFA firearm in a face to face transaction from another instate resident with no background check or paperwork what so ever.

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  43. Of course there is massive cross border gun-running into Mexico.

    No, no there isn’t. Most weapons in Mexico are imported for use by their military and sold by crooked soldiers or are bought from Eastern Europe.

    You cannot buy machine guns and grenades over the counter in the US.

    Remember the Hollywood bank robbery shoot out? The crooks used fully automatic weapons that had been smuggled into the US from Mexico.

  44. You won’t specify which part of central Europe you live in. The only part of central Europe where low gun ownership and numbers apply is Poland. If you live there, you should say so and not try and mislead. Other parts of central Europe and Scandinavia have high to very high numbers of guns per 100 of the population and corresponding high levels of private gun ownership.
    Even as strictly regulated a country like Germany has millions of private gun owners and seemingly tens of millions of illegally held weapons.
    Things to know about guns in Germany- The Local
    You need to get out more and read more to rectify your seemingly invincible ignorance.

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  45. Yeah, key words being “non NFA”. You can do that in plenty of states. There is also no background check on black powder arms in most states, but those aren’t the weapons macilrae is talking about, are they?

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  46. The statement you made was “no gun without a background check”. NFA firearms are those that require a tax stamp from the ATF. I can buy a modern AR, a Glock, or a modern semi auto shotgun from another instate resident., no papers required.

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  47. Sorry, but I don’t feel like sharing too much of my personal information online.

    Your insinuation that I’m trying to mislead is completely baseless – why, in the world, would I want to do that?

    As for accusing me of ignorance, lol, that’s quite an audacious claim for someone getting their information from a wikipedia article giving estimates while implicitly questioning its own accuracy.

    Anyway, since, apparently, we’re now into exchanging our impressions of each other, here it is: you, unfortunately, sound like a person with preconceived notions, aggressively unwilling to engage in a meaningful conversation. Oh well.

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  48. Did you ever have one of those days when you just needed and AR break?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSizVpfqFtw

    For better or worse, guns are a part of our culture.

  49. My experience with bullpups is that the trigger pulls are the worst I’ve ever experienced–heavy and creepy: the long trigger-sear link is a hard obstacle to overcome. On the other hand, I haven’t seen every bullpup and some models may be better than others. (The American Rifleman review of the French FAMAS bullpup mentioned the trigger pull as a disadvantage.) In addition, there are perhaps gunsmiths who can improve them. I’ve often wondered if a reliable electrical ignition could be adopted to a bullpup–it would get around that long trigger-sear link. The bullpup’s compact design does have advantages in a close quarter situation, although if you’ve let your adversary get close enough to be able to grab your weapon’s barrel, you’re already in big trouble.

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  50. My generalized defense of widespread gun ownership is simple: In his seminal work, “Tragedy & Hope: A History of the World in Our Time,” the historian Carroll Quigley noted that when a population is armed to the point it can resist the central government, government tends toward democracy. When the central government can “outgun” its population, government tends toward autocracy. QED

    Is widespread gun ownership inherently dangerous to the population at large? No, at least not in White European culture. I grew up in Kansas where the majority of teenage males I knew had a rifle or shotgun. Gun ownership and gun safety were part of the right of passage to becoming an adult. All of my adult male relatives had shotguns for hunting. I cannot recall one person wounded or killed by a misused firearm in those years.

    I’m retired military and have shot “expert” with numerous rifles and pistols. However, I do not own a gun and hopefully never will. I detest guns as I detest war. That said, life got precarious in southern California in the 1990s as the “have nots” (primarily Hispanic immigrants) invaded and looted the “have” communities as soon as the sun set. Black gangs from LA also started moving into the suburbs. Shootouts in parking lots and random murders as part of gang initiations became increasingly common. I had to make a decision: By a gun or leave the state. We packed up our belongings and left.

  51. Dh, the Israelis have designed a new assault rifle in a bullpup configuration called the Tavor. If I was gong to buy one, this is what I would want. I do not know what the trigger pull is, but my Ruger SLP has a long trigger pull and I am happy with it. The long pull is also the safety.

    Personally, I don’t think any rifle is a good home defense weapon. I prefer a shotgun or a pistol.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IWI_Tavor

  52. “Here in central Europe (outside Switzerland) private ownership of guns is virtually non-existent, and yet I never heard of criminals with AKs stopping a bus or robbing a train or shopping mall…”

    That is a refreshing change from what many of us US citizens experience. Not to be sarcastic, but how many fatherless feral blacks are roaming around in Central Europe like they are in my town, Milwaukee?

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  53. People you call ‘blacks’, that’s merely a socioeconomic strata of chronically unemployed, lumpenproletariat, with its own culture. It’s an anti-system culture, with no respect for the petit bourgeois values. Lumpenproletariat is an innate part of any capitalist society, but more so in more libertarian (unmanaged) capitalism.

    Here, where I live, they have their own ‘blacks’ – the gypsies. They even have a term: ‘gypsy crimes’. It’s the same sort of conflict. But somehow it’s not as extreme as suburbs vs ghettos in the US.

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  54. NSA: A small revolver? Are you serious?

    The only serious handguns considered for self-defense are in calibers .38+P and up – mostly 9mm, 10mm, and .45 ACP. While you can get all of those calibers in a “small revolver”, they are difficult to control in a small gun. The .380 and lower calibers can be functional as backup weapons in small handguns, but are not considered for self-defense primary weapons by ANY expert I am aware of.

    Quality semi-automatics are perfectly reliable when 1) tested for ammo compatibility, and 2) properly maintained – both of which any gun owner should do when acquiring a firearm.

    The recommendation of a 12-gauge shotgun for home defense is a good one, mostly for reasons of avoiding over-penetration which can threaten both family members and neighbors. However, an AR-15 in .223 caliber is perfectly good for home defense. It is more controllable than a shotgun and provides for more shots before reloading. I’d rather have 20 or 30 rounds available than five or six shotgun rounds.

    Again, “finicky with ammo” is only important if you don’t test ammo compatibility as soon as you purchase the weapon or fail to follow proper magazine and firearm maintenance.

    You are correct that a citizen who uses a firearm in defense is likely to be charged with felonies and most likely sued in civil court and spend scores of thousands on attorney fees. Just about every firearm self-defense expert such as Massad Ayoob explain this quite clearly in their books and articles. But following your advice to flee simply adds more felony charges which CANNOT be defended against by a self-defense claim. When the individual who does so gets caught, he will be faced with additional felony charges which will result in prison time even if acquitted on the violence charge. Enough additional felony charges in a “three-strikes” state – enhanced by being in connection with the use of a firearm – and he is looking at life in prison.

    I suggest you stop giving legal – and firearm – advice you’re obviously not qualified for. Most of your statements are either myths or seriously bad advice.

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  55. I am one of five in my congregation who is not a refugee, albeit not from the Mideast. I don’t waste time fretting over it, but I mean to show good old southern hospitality if need be. Some of these kids actually call me grandpa.

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  56. Hey mtncur,

    That post made me smile, both inside and out. May God keep you smiling in this world and the next and may the Southerners never lose that charming sense of hospitality.

  57. Maybe, but if I recall, you Central Euros had your women raped first by the Nazis, then by the Bolsheviks, then for a bunch of years by any Communist party hack who took a fancy to them. Now you’re just sitting ducks, waiting for the EU and NATO to put bases in your countries and start mixing into the gene pool. Not something I’d be bragging about.

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  58. ” no minor can buy a gun at all”

    Another change in the culture. Got my first rifle (.22) at 12. I could buy ammo at the hardware store with a note from my mother. Shotgun at 16 (from Aberchrombie & Fitch). No one was excited by “teens” carrying shotguns, if it was duck season; or .22′s if it was summer. BB guns weren’t worth thinking about. A School Teacher came out to admire my Browning, which was locked in the trunk of my car. Check “To Kill a Mockingbird” Atticus Finch recalls getting his first rifle at 12, and was reputed to be “the best shot in the county”.

    As Fred says. “A change in the culture”. 50% of my friends had guns by 14. Never even heard a joke about shooting anyone. We were proud of our “responsibility”. We frequently “shot cans”, or just “went shooting”, to pass time on a Saturday. We also shot rats at the dump, I wonder what would happen to us now? A few years ago, I stopped on Rte 95 where a deer had been hit by a car. I had a gun in my car and thought to “put it out of it’s misery”. However, the deer was surrounded by mothers with children who were watching “Bambi’s mother” die. I thought this perverse, but didn’t dare take a gun out.

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  59. Thanks for your reply, Rich, but it so happens that I perceive gene-pool-mixing as a good thing, so unfortunately I can’t really share your concerns there… As for rapes, I believe that outside the war-time periods it was rather uncommon under the communist system. Less common (I’m pretty sure) than in the west, actually. You see, there was no underclass during that period (no homeless, no beggars), where these kinds of things tend to happen.

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  60. You “perceive gene-pool mixing as a good thing”? You’re what’s known in English speaking countries as a cuckold. It’s considered disgraceful in the West, or it was prior to the West’s decline.

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  61. By your own admission, you are someone who doesn’t read much. It is the principal method by which humans obtain information of the more intellectual kind. Reading more might help dispel some of your ignorance.

  62. The difference between a gun, which some here say is just an innocent object, and a knife or a rock is that if somebody comes at me with a knife or a rock I might have a chance to survive if I’m a bit quicker or stronger.

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  63. You’re what’s known in English speaking countries as a cuckold.

    I don’t think so. Check your dictionary.

    It’s considered disgraceful in the West, or it was prior to the West’s decline.

    Hey, decline – progress, it’s all about how you look at it. You call me ‘decadent’, I call you ‘reactionary’, but in the end this is just a matter of our personal preferences, formed mostly by our upbringing, our environment. I grew up in a big city, you, it sounds like, somewhere rural. But it’s okay, it takes all kinds…

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  64. “…and it wrecked their lives.”

    Yes, yes it did wreck their lives. They still have their life though. Literally.

  65. “People you call ‘blacks’, that’s merely a socioeconomic strata of chronically unemployed, lumpenproletariat, with its own culture.”

    If only.

  66. Actually I’m from an urban environment, NYC, to be exact.

    The dictionary definition of cuckold is “the husband of an adulterous wife.” In evolutionary biology it means to unwittingly care for the offspring of another man. The origin of the word comes comes from the cuckoo bird who lay their eggs in another bird’s nest. In popular parlance, it also refers to men who enjoy seeing their woman have sexual relations with another man.

    I think believing it’s good for your people’s genetics to be mixed with outsiders falls within the meaning and connotation of the word.

    Historically, for all of recorded human history, actually, allowing your women to mate with outsiders has been considered a disgrace. It is only the present decadent society where someone would even admit to finding this “good.”

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  67. I think believing it’s good for your people’s genetics to be mixed with outsiders falls within the meaning and connotation of the word.

    But what’s “your people”? If I wanted to classify a group of individuals as ‘my people’, I certainly wouldn’t be selecting them by genetics (let alone, it’s not even clear what that means). I might consider my immediate family, my friends, my colleagues, maybe even my online correspondents (like yourself) ‘my people’ – but genetics? What do I care what your genetics are?

    As for mixing the gene pool, I think it’s a good thing just from a scientific point of view. It produces healthier offsprings. As opposed to inbreeding.

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  68. I have the good fortune to live in rural Texas. Out here there are small dive bars that on any given Friday and Saturday are full of often drunk cowboys. It’s not unusual for a fight to break out occasionally and a few noses to be bloodied.

    Strangely enough these never evolve in to a gun fight. The reason is simple, if everyone one in the bar went and got their gun you could invade a small third world country. This illustrates that when everyone realizes that everyone else probably has a gun they rarely come in to play.

  69. People you call ‘blacks’, that’s merely a socioeconomic strata of chronically unemployed, lumpenproletariat, with its own culture. It’s an anti-system culture, with no respect for the petit bourgeois values. Lumpenproletariat is an innate part of any capitalist society, but more so in more libertarian (unmanaged) capitalism.

    Gosh, a socialist critique that recklessly sets aside any questions of race, how ’bout that.

  70. “Nobody, except maybe off-duty cops, carries a handgun around in Northeastern cities or suburbs”

    How would you even know? I have legally carried a concealed pistol on my person in Pennsylvania my entire adult life and absolutely without fail when I need to go into Philadelphia.

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  71. John Jeremiah Smith [AKA "MCPO USN"]
    says:
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    I suggest you stop giving legal – and firearm – advice you’re obviously not qualified for. Most of your statements are either myths or seriously bad advice.

    I suggest you stop giving legal – and firearm – advice you’re obviously not qualified for. Everything you wrote is opinionated hogwash, no more, no less.

    Self-defense gun gotta be .38 caliber or bigger? Horseshit. AR-15 is a good “home defense” weapon? Horseshit. Use of a firearm for self-defense means being charged with a felony? Horseshit.

    Caliber is irrelevant; what counts is placement. A 32 -grain .22LR HP between the eyes is 100% effective. Hitting what your shooting at beats caliber every goddamn time.

    AR-15 rounds will go through an attacker without stopping him, and will kill a 5-year old 3 blocks away. If there is any of your nonsense that directly disqualifies you, it’s that — 5.56 assault rifle for home defense. Suuuuuuure … if there’s a fire-team attacking that you’re trying to hold down at 100 yards distance.

    Use of a firearm for self-defense means being charged with a felony? Only if you actually commit a felony. Sure, there’s NYC and other crazy places, but any gun is illegal in NYC — NYC itself being a felony against American citizens resident there.

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  72. John Jeremiah Smith [AKA "MCPO USN"]
    says:
         Show CommentNext New Comment

    As for mixing the gene pool, I think it’s a good thing just from a scientific point of view. It produces healthier offsprings. As opposed to inbreeding.

    Mao, Mr. Rich is wrong on many counts, but that’s neither here nor there. This note is to advise you that carrying on discussions with HBD enthusiasts and other “genetics” wackos is invariably counterproductive.

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  73. says:
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    “Nobody” being a relative term, of course.

  74. Agree, MCPO, thanks. My Mom successfully defended herself against an assailant, a career criminal, with a .22 caliber weapon. After a possible home invasion a few years ago, I thought about a handgun for home defense. To my own surprise, the .22 caliber kept recommending itself to me because its low cost meant more range time for familiarization. I’d owned a .380 ACP Mauser HSc handgun decades earlier. Although a fair shot, I never gained “comfort” with the weapon because the cost of ammo was a bit high for me.

    Use of a firearm for lawful self-defense in my Ohio community is, well, lawful. My guess is we’ve had dozens of cases the past few years in which, after investigation, the prosecutor files no charges against a defender because his actions were lawful.

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  75. Ah, the AR15: the middle-class white guy’s Barbie Doll.

    Few people probably realize the cottage industry that exists to let an AR owner customize his or her toy.

  76. John Jeremiah Smith [AKA "MCPO USN"]
    says:
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    I’ve noticed the cost of .22LR ammo spiraling upwards — your lovin’ government at work there, I believe.

    Unless you hand-load .380 cartridges (and whatever for would you do that?) the gain in foot-pounds of impact energy over .22LR is trivial, certainly not worth the price premium.

    I’ve never heard stories of the criminal element running any faster from a .45 than from a .22.

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  77. Terrible advice.

    “The Law of Self-Defense” is a great book on this topic, and should be read by anyone who entertains the idea of using any weapon for self-defense. It offers a state-level guide to reducing the likelihood of going to jail for protecting yourself.

    The author, Andrew Branca offers several youtube discussions of the relevant issues, including what to say to the 9-1-1 operator and to first-responders (and I think he’s spot-on with regard to talking to the cops…it is imperative to immediately establish your narrative that your use of force was in self-defense.) The cops who first respond will be the ones who establish who did what to whom. You want to be damned sure that they know at the outset that you were attacked and had to defend yourself.

    His discussion of the differences between the states is worth the book’s price for anyone who EVER travels from state-to-state with a defensive firearm.

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  78. Goetz violated the laws of NY by shooting a couple of those criminals after the threat to him was ended. There are few states where you can shoot someone who merited resistance with deadly force but where that resistance is no longer necessary.

    Goetz only avoided jail because jurors were fed up, just like he was, with marauding predators and they chose to at least in that instance nullify the law’s application to that particular event.

    If you think for one second in our video-camera-saturated world that scooting after you were involved in a defensive encounter, even if no shots were fired, is a good idea, you should reconsider.

    I honestly don’t know why people think debating one gun vs another is meritorious. Talk about a waste of time…. If the 1911 floats your boat, go for it, if the small 5-shot revolver does, ditto. No one who has not yet developed a fully-formed, well-supported opinion about such things should ever consider carrying a gun for defense. Carrying a gun is not for newbies or to be taken lightly.

  79. A few years ago, I stopped on Rte 95 where a deer had been hit by a car. I had a gun in my car and thought to “put it out of it’s misery”. However, the deer was surrounded by mothers with children who were watching “Bambi’s mother” die. I thought this perverse, but didn’t dare take a gun out.

    I’ve read horror stories of well-meaning people being crucified for providing roadside euthanasia for an injured animal. Nowadays I’d never, ever pull out a firearm unless the Color Code has faded to Black.

    Different times, indeed.

  80. Er, not necessarily. On a statistical basis most people who are shot actually survive (just look at Chicago’s weekly totals.)

    I strongly suspect that people who are knifed are less likely to survive than those who are shot on a case-by-case basis. It’s quite easy to sustain a non-survivable knife wound, and people grossly underestimate the chances of sustaining such.

    Also, more people in the USA die from injuries sustained from an attacker who was “unarmed” (i.e., die from being beaten by fists or feet) than die from being shot by rifles and shotguns combined…which is interesting given that long guns usually deliver far more devastating injuries.

    So, macilrae, are you suggesting that only big, strong, youthful men should be able to defend themselves? I must assume you’re male, because no woman with the slightest notion of her relative weakness would imagine holding her own in a hand-to-hand fight with a man.

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  81. Unless you hand-load .380 cartridges (and whatever for would you do that?) the gain in foot-pounds of impact energy over .22LR is trivial, certainly not worth the price premium.

    What? Are you seriously talking about trying to make one cartridge (a 380 ACP) into the equivalent of a different cartridge (say, a 9×18, a 9×19, or let’s have some real fun, a 9×23) simply by “hand-loading?” After all, every one of these uses a .355 or .356″ diameter bullet.

    (facepalm.)

    You cannot substantially improve on factory-loaded ammo without moving beyond the engineered limits of the system (the cartridge case, the locking system and the steel of the chamber.) Yes, there are those who try this but they eventually destroy the gun and/or take a blast of venting combustion products in the face.

    The level of bad info on this comment thread is way above normal.

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  82. I was in Raleigh NC last week, and my friend said that every guy with an untucked shirt was probably packing, including blacks.

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  83. Let’s assume you become enraged at me and, in your blind fury, decide to terminate my existence. In this case I should prefer you to make your attempt using either a rock or a knife – but that’s just me; maybe if we reversed the situation you’d pick the gun?

  84. John Jeremiah Smith [AKA "MCPO USN"]
    says:
         Show CommentNext New Comment

    What? Are you seriously talking about trying to make one cartridge (a 380 ACP) into the equivalent of a different cartridge (say, a 9×18, a 9×19, or let’s have some real fun, a 9×23) simply by “hand-loading?” After all, every one of these uses a .355 or .356″ diameter bullet.

    (facepalm.)

    I take no offense at deprecating remarks, IF and only IF those remarks have merit. That particular remark of yours is that of a horse’s voluminous backside.

    Unless you hand-load .380 cartridges the gain in foot-pounds of impact energy over .22LR is trivial, certainly not worth the price premium.

    I don’t give two shits what you think about the dangers of reloading factory casings.

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  85. You are exactly right about the tool comment!

  86. Hunting is popular in many parts of rural Switzerland and ownership of hunting rifles is widespread. Obviously the Swiss are not prone to the horrific level of mayhem found in US black ghettos. So the fact that the Swiss are well-armed does not result in a violent culture.

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  87. Mao – it’s racial. Murder rates for US whites are very little different from Western Europe. Americans of Northeast Asian descent like Northeast Asians themselves have very low homicide rates. What causes high aggregate homicide rates in the US are primarily blacks. In Chicago the homicide rate among blacks is about 90 (!!) time the white rate. Hispanics have higher homicide rates than whites although much below black homicide rates.

    Also Mexican homicide rates are way above US homicide rates. areas of the US which are populated primarily by individuals of European descent have low homicide rates. Indeed Americans of European descent are very similar to Europeans in most of their behavior.

  88. Even the niggers shooting up Chicago are smarter than you. What to say to the 911 operator? What to say to the first responders? What to say to the cops? The correct answer is nothing as you didn’t stick around to be made an example of. Less than 2% of the shootings in Chicago even result in a prosecution…hell, they rarely even bother investigating beyond taking a few statements.
    There is nothing more pathetic than a naive middle class white guy enmeshed in the legal system….

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  89. I own an AR-15, which I bought just for the hell of it along with five 30-round magazines and a 100-rounder. This won’t be my self-defense weapon. That duty will go to whichever of the following I get to first, depending on where I am, which guns are out of the safe, where in the house they’re located, and how the intruder enters:

    - Dan Wesson 715 revolver, six rounds in the cylinder, .357 magnum
    - Ruger LCR snubnose revolver, five rounds in the cylinder, .38 Special
    - Colt Police Positive revolver, six rounds of .32 LRN in the cylinder
    - Ruger 10-.22 pistol, 15 rounds of .22LR in the magazine
    - FN Five Seven pistol, 20 rounds in the magazine, 5.7x28mm
    - Winchester 37 break action shotgun, 12ga, buckshot in the chamber
    - Henry .357 magnum Big Boy rifle, 10 rounds in the tube

    Any of these will do the job. But that’s just me. What counts most is what you can shoot most accurately. The data show this. There is astonishingly little difference between calibers when it comes to lethality. Shot placement counts much more. The lowly .22LR revolver or pistol is just fine, as long as you’ve gotten enough practice.

    http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/alternate-look-handgun-stopping-power

    Here’s something else: Most gun battles end before they start. An intruder who sees the business end of my DW 715 or the Winchester shotgun, or who hears me cock the lever on the Henry, is likely to need a change of underwear. One round from any of the others will hurt him and probably kill him, because I’m trained and accurate.

    As for the law, yes, it varies but the basics are the same almost everywhere:

    - Ability: Can the intruder kill or seriously hurt you?
    - Opportunity: Does he have the opportunity to use his ability?
    - Jeopardy: Are you in imminent danger of being killed or seriously hurt?

    All of these are judged by a “reasonable person” standard.

    Where I live, in Washington State, I am aware of NO prosecutions of homeowners who have shot intruders. You wait for the to get all the way inside. Then you pull the trigger. Then you call the police, and you tell them that you were afraid for your life. You do not even touch the body, let alone move it.

    In the real world, that’s how it works here.

    As for gun controllers, the vast majority of them live in safe neighborhoods and have no experience or familiarity with guns, at even a basic level. If I were the NRA, I might think about ways to change this. Once someone gets experience shooting, they tend to change their views about gun control.

  90. John Jeremiah Smith [AKA "MCPO USN"]
    says:
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    Wow, what a deft change of ID.

  91. Just saying someone is “wrong” doesn’t make it so, squid. At least the Chinese gentleman tried to make an argument for his beliefs, however wrong I believe them to be, you, in aristocratic fashion, wave your handkerchief, convinced of your infallibility. You are the one who is “wrong on many counts” in many of your comments, but like anyone with a soapbox, you can’t stand up there in your bell bottom jeans, Popeye hat and anchor tattoo and spout them all you like. “Counterproductive” as that might be.

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  92. I dunno, sneaky government might first ban lead, you know because it’s bad for the kids, substitute with some hard compound that eventually burns out barrels and then just ban bullets if somebody’s still shooting. It could happen, bureaucrats work on a long time scale, probably cause their job’s guaranteed.

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  93. John Jeremiah Smith [AKA "MCPO USN"]
    says:
         Show CommentNext New Comment

    Just saying someone is “wrong” doesn’t make it so, squid.

    Rich, you’re fullashit.

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  94. Methinks you have a lot (A LOT, as in decades) less experience reloading than do I.

    I also suspect you attach more consideration to ft-lbs of energy than Winchester, Remington, Federal, and probably even Underwood ammunition manufacturers…but hey, you’re free to believe you know more than do people who do this stuff for a living.

    The content of your comment was foolish and ill-advised.

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  95. Perhaps the way to tell the gangsters from John Q. Public is that the latter uses a holster and can run without grabbing at his waistline.

  96. Examine only those Americans of predominantly European ancestry and you find that the USA has crime rates identical to Europeans of predominantly European ancestry.

    See “The Color of Crime” 2016 revised edition.

    Human behavior is largely determined by heredity.

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  97. Even the niggers shooting up Chicago are smarter than you.

    If you think a middle class white guy who doesn’t dot his i’s and cross his t’s won’t be targeted, you’re just as dumb as you sound. We live in a world saturated with cameras. Your phone records where you are at every moment of the day, and that record is searchable by a dozen agencies.

    If you think you can shoot someone and scoot, you’re a fool. If you think shooting someone (in pure self-defense) won’t be interpreted as a crime if you don’t dial 9-1-1, you’re a fool. If you dial 9-1-1, how do you intend to “say nothing?” You’d better know in advance what you’re going to say, because one wrong word on that RECORDING will be played over, and over, and over again in your trial.

    The whole “say nothing” school of thought is super simple…for simpletons.

    For others (not you), here’s something to consider:
    http://lawofselfdefense.com/one-drawback-to-the-say-nothing-to-the-police-approach/

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  98. There are no lead smelting plants left in the USA.

    US ammo manufacturers are now entirely dependent on, I believe, China for their lead alloys.

    Because….environment, you know.

  99. John Jeremiah Smith [AKA "MCPO USN"]
    says:
         Show CommentNext New Comment

    This time, shit-for-brains, pay attention.

    I didn’t say I did a lot of reloading, in fact, didn’t say I do any “reloading” at all.

    I do attach more importance to foot-pounds of impact energy, and that bias is based on years of experience and observation. Real observation — not the “observation” of reading frenzied gluck from Guns and Ammo writers desperate to make a living.

    Once again, what I said, in the English language, was:

    Unless you hand-load .380 cartridges the gain in foot-pounds of impact energy over .22LR is trivial, certainly not worth the price premium.

    Absolutely incontrovertible fact.

    You behave as an arrogant little putz, so wounded when you believe your expertise is somehow challenged. Okay, so your little butt stings a bit over my statement of fact. Go cry in your pillow.

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  100. John Jeremiah Smith [AKA "MCPO USN"]
    says:
         Show CommentNext New Comment

    We live in a world saturated with cameras. Your phone records where you are at every moment of the day, and that record is searchable by a dozen agencies.

    LOL. You have revealed yourself as an adolescent … what, maybe 25 years old? And you live where? New York City?

    My world is not saturated with cameras. My phone does not record where I am.

    If you think shooting someone (in pure self-defense) won’t be interpreted as a crime if you don’t dial 9-1-1, you’re a fool.

    Happens every day. Most true self-defense shootings are recorded as justified.

  101. John Jeremiah Smith [AKA "MCPO USN"]
    says:
         Show CommentNext New Comment

    Human behavior is largely determined by heredity.

    To round-out the picture … Adolescent, resident of New York City, and an uneducated fool who believes the utter nonsense of HBD propaganda.

    You are Ignored.

  102. Unless you hand-load .380 cartridges the gain in foot-pounds of impact energy over .22LR is trivial, certainly not worth the price premium.

    Absolutely incontrovertible fact.

    How would you gain foot-pounds of impact energy by hand-loading? Simple question. Answer it (preferably with enough detail to make your answer coherent and not just exhibit circular reasoning.)

    ____________________________
    For your edification:
    a .22LR fired from a rifle achieves about 130 ft-lbs
    a .22LR fired from a pistol (4″ barrel) produces more like 90 ft-lbs
    Winchester’s 380 ACP loads are all around 190 ft-lbs.
    Underwood Ammo lists a 380 ACP load at 210 ft-lbs.
    The hottest load in Accurate Arms loading manual seems to develop about 192 ft-lbs.
    _______________________________

    I’m dying to learn how you suggest someone “hand-load 380 cartridges” to increase those figures. Please, fill me in on your expertise. Explain how it’s done.

    I’m also fascinated by your apparent contention that 190 is a trivial increase in energy over 90.

    My “little putz” act is just my way of laughing at your inability to so much as do an Internet Search, much less use a calculator to determine ft-lbs of energy of a load.

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  103. Wow, that comeback really showed me.

    Every clown I know who did life in the navy was either a little off, or afraid they couldn’t make it in the real world. Which one were you?

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  104. Shooting someone in your house is legally justified if you are in fear of your life (and in some states have retreated as far as possible)….just hope when you turn the lights on, it’s not your neighbor’s medicated kid. Shooting someone off you property is often legally very problematic. An example. A favorite method of mugging is a variation on “asking for a loan” (which is legal). Three “youths” approach you. Two edge their way behind you while the “youth” in front of you asks for a $20 loan, bro. How do you handle it? Say no and maybe they take a hike. Say no and maybe take a severe beat down and get robbed. Say no and maybe get stuck or shot from behind and robbed. Or do you make a quick well practiced IPSC move and come up blasting. Do you have a concealed weapon permit? Do you quickly calculate the odds of making a clean getaway and take your chances? Or do you stick around for the cops and make the front page of the local PC gazette as an example of white on black violence? Afterall, they only asked for a loan which you could have refused………..shooting panhandlers is against the law.

  105. John Jeremiah Smith [AKA "MCPO USN"]
    says:
         Show CommentNext New Comment

    My “little putz” act is just my way of laughing at your inability to so much as do an Internet Search, much less use a calculator to determine ft-lbs of energy of a load.

    LOL. I’m sure you fool the city-slickers quite regularly, Ace. I was surprised — shocked!! — that with all your expertise in “reloading”, you didn’t know how to +P a .380 cartridge. Not to worry, though, you can generate a veritable snowstorm of bullshit. Impressive to the rubes.

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  106. John Jeremiah Smith [AKA "MCPO USN"]
    says:
         Show CommentNext New Comment

    Every clown I know who did life in the navy was either a little off, or afraid they couldn’t make it in the real world. Which one were you?

    I agree with your assessment of lifers, quite frankly, although imo it applies to all military branches. Well, less so for Coasties, where it is a true career, as opposed to it being 20 years of hard-drinking and fucking-off with pay and benefits.

    I’m not really a Navy lifer. I lied. Here’s another secret: “Mao Cheng” is not Chinese.

    Are you familiar at all with the constantly ongoing process of creating and abandoning IDs that is pursued by most long-term users of Internet forums? No? Are you one of those geezers who took up foruming at age 75, and you hate all those people for doing what they’ve been doing on the Internet for all those years that you got home, ate supper, and mowed your lawn?

    Seriously, do you think I should pay any attention to your expressed opinion about my personal communications with another user? Especially “Chinese guys”. LOL.

  107. A lot of these so called civilian owned firearms and ammo in Europe are “safely” locked away in some hunting/skeet shooter club gun safe and can only be removed for government approved, supervised and regulated sporting activities. And we might also say for use by the undertow imported Third World rabble when they decide to “liberate” them.

  108. There is a higher correlation between diversity and murder than there is between gun-ownership and murder. Just sayin.

  109. For home defense, you do NOT want a mil style assault rifle like the AR-15. These toys are very expensive, prone to jamming, finicky with respect to ammo, small caliber lacking knock down power, spray evidence (empty cases) everywhere, and look very bad in court (especially when tricked out with laser optics, large capacity clips, flash hiders, etc).

    Wrong on just about every point. None of this is true at all. You’re betraying your unfamiliarity and lack of experience with the contemporary AR-15.

    For home defense against gangs of urban rioters and looters numbering in the hundreds or perhaps thousands, there is NOTHING better than the modern AR-15.

    Imagine yourself in the LA Riots (or worse)… a “12 gauge bird gun” is not going to solve your problem. It’s easy to be a keyboard warrior dispensing false commentary… thankfully you are not in a position to impose upon others what guns you think they need.

  110. Here in central Europe (outside Switzerland) private ownership of guns is virtually non-existent, and yet I never heard of criminals with AKs stopping a bus or robbing a train or shopping mall.

    Yeah, I guess you didn’t hear about the Muslims who murdered 130 people in France with AKs last year, or the ones who shot up the newspaper office, or the Muzzie who tried to shoot up the French train with an AK (and was stopped by off duty U.S. military personnel).

    Better get your head out of the sand and start paying attention to the news, pal.

  111. “Obama of course blamed guns for the shooting deaths in Chicago. Can he really believe this? It is like the obese blaming spoons.”

    Never forget the old radical adage in play in places where gun violence seems unexplainable. It boils down to old tactic of selective enforcement:

    ‘It’s harder to get the laws you really want, if the laws you have, appear to be working.’

  112. Yeah, it’s going to be great in Court to explain why you shot the intruder and killed your eight year old daughter in her bed through the gypsum board drywall separating your bedroom from hers.

    Your advice sounds an awful like Joe Biden’s advice to his wife (and America) to shoot a 12 gauge loaded with 00 buck out the front door without ascertaining her target, what is near of behind it, etc.

    People have thought these things through from every angle – including legal and ballistic – studying the scene of firefights following home invasions and such. Literally no one who has given this thought advises blasting away with your .30-30 lever action Marlin inside one’s own home.

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  113. The bullpup configuration is intended to solve the ballistic performance problems arising from shortening rifle barrels to make them more compact and maneuverable in CQB situations (think inside houses, around corners, in doorways and hallways etc.) and while at low ready inside of vehicles. It’s achieved by moving the action into the stock, thus permitting the appropriate barrel length while shortening the length overall. Of course, without additional optics the shorter sight radius renders a less accurate rifle all else being equal.

    I imagine that as the bullpup configuration proves its worth and gains favor the issues with its trigger will be mitigated by enterprising engineers and gunsmiths.

    • Replies: ,
  114. FWIW, I just can’t get used to that bullpup set-up. Too weird to have the magazine behind the trigger. But goddamn, they look cool.

  115. Like the article, Fred, but re. Israel

    having enemies on their borders, they need to be able to mobilize rapidly

    is more than a little disingenuous or plain mistaken. In Israel proper, there is no idea of a rifle in every house (unlike Switzerland and the former Yugoslavia, and, as you say, parts of the USA).

    Only people in the military and police bear arms in Israel proper.

    The settlers, or invaders, of those parts that should form the basis of a two-state solution, do have the ‘assault rifle by every bed’ principle.

    Do you really think that it is a good thing?

    • Agree: jacques sheete
    • Replies:
  116. I’m not quite that annoyed by it, could do without so many movie clips.

  117. They also know, unless actually mad, that criminals are overwhelmingly black.

    So that’s why the War Whore, the Charnel House Madam is merely a basilisk and not a criminal; it’s de kullur of her skin. We all know that white signifies purity if not necessarily virginity, don’t we?

    Good thing ya slid the qualifier “overwhelmingly” in there, but the big white criminals seem much more of a threat to me and mine than the ones yer whining about, but clearly I don’t have the IQ of an ice cube so I could be wrong.

    [MORE]

    Say Fwed, if criminals are overwhelmingly black, can you tell me if the criminality is directly proportional to skin color, or is it exponential, or what? I need to know so I can titrate my alarm levels based on what I see. Do blacks become more criminal if they’re kept out in the sun, or what?

    If so, then maybe we should keep ‘em all indoors er sumpin, eh?

    And of course gun control would mean disarming white people, who tend to obey laws.

    One hasta luv yer sense of humor, Fwed. Yes, and not only are all laws good, but so are the governments that make ‘em and the boyz what enforces ‘em. Dem white folks ten’ to be as overwhelmingly pure as freshly fallen snow. Tell us about Pizzagate, the Pentagon and de banks and all dem blacks runnin de joints, Fwed…!

    Just like in old Rome. It wuz undoubtledly de blacks whut brought ‘em down, for in Nigrinus, Lucian tells us…

    The turbid stream surges everlastingly through our streets; avarice, perjury, adultery,–all tastes are represented. Under that rush of waters, modesty, virtue, uprightness, are torn from the soul; and in their stead grows the tree of perpetual thirst, whose flowers are many strange desires.

    Such was Rome; such were the blessings she taught men to 17enjoy. …
    And wouldst behold– the turmoil of Rome? slander and insolence and gluttony, flatterers and false friends, legacy-hunters and murderers? And what wilt thou do here? thou canst not endure these things, neither canst thou escape them…

    …21′But I said that there was entertainment also to be derived from the scene; and I will maintain it. Our rich men are an entertainment in themselves…

    -Lucian of Samosata, NIGRINUS, A DIALOGUE, ~150 AD
    http://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/luc/wl1/wl109.htm

    Didja catch dis? Our rich men are an entertainment in themselves…

    ‘Specially dem black uns, eh?!

    PS: It’s apparent that you know even less about the corsnstitution than you do about IQ testing so let me present a primer. Yer welcome.

    The Constitution looked fairly good on paper, but it was not a popular document; people were suspicious of it, and suspicious of the enabling legislation that was being erected upon it. There was some ground for this. The Constitution had been laid down under unacceptable auspices; its history had been that of a coup d’état.

    It had been drafted, in the first place, by men representing special economic interests. Four-fifths of them were public creditors, one-third were land speculators, and one-fifth represented interests in shipping, manufacturing, and merchandising. Most of them were lawyers. Not one of them represented the interest of production — Vilescit origine tali. (the dice were loaded from the start)

    Albert Jay Nock, Liberty vs. the Constitution: The Early Struggle
    [Excerpted from chapter 5 of Albert Jay Nock's Jefferson]
    https://mises.org/library/liberty-vs-constitution-early-struggle

    mises.org/daily/4254

  118. So, the German ladies getting raped and harassed and threatened daily by Muslims shouldn’t be able to protect themselves with handguns? They should submit to the horror, disease, degradation, and pain instead?

    A serious question that can be answered yes or no.

  119. Children who grow up in normal white households with guns do NOT “wave around” guns carelessly. I have lived in rural and suburban towns with high rates of legal gun ownership and strong gun cultures, and they are overwhelmingly careful, responsible, and defensive with their guns, as are their children from a young age. I’ve gone shooting with young people and their families and felt safer, and actually WAS safer, than in a city where gun ownership was almost illegal and was looked upon with ignorant horror.

    You don’t have statistics or experience to back up these slanderous and absurd claims.

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  120. So in Israel guns are needed for self defense, but not here? You apparently haven’t lived in many real urban environments or have stuck your head in the sand to avoid reality and gotten away with it so far.

    Non-urban environments these days also present quite a need for guns for self defense. Savages live outside big cities, too, and in any event they visit burbs and country to rob and hurt; I’ve seen it. Almost anytime one is threatened, police cannot and will not reach the home or other location, in suburbs or country, in time to save you and your family from whatever Hell the savages have in mind.

    You can risk your family being tortured, slaughtered, traumatized, handicapped, raped, etc., while waiting for police. We won’t.

    With no guns, you consign the elderly, the handicapped, the small or slightly built, and almost all women, to anything the home invader or mugger or rapist wants to do to them. Same with even the largest man victim, if he is sleeping or surprised or simply outnumbered.

  121. You’re probably right, as to the core historic American nation and its ability to keep serious heavy firearms responsibly.

    But let’s be honest, we can’t have a society with Africans and Muslims able to get automatic weapons or heavy weaponry here.

    Solution is to induce those populations to leave — peacefully if possible, with large financial incentives and one-way airfare — and to stop importing more from those populations — not to restrict the rights of all of us in order to allegedly disarm them.

    Come to think of it, the creepy level of camera-every-block, camera-every-building surveillance we are all subjected to by government and businesses these days is also prudent with savage populations like Africans and Muslims, but not typically necessary for the rest of us.

    Having alien backward populations like those here in our country makes people afraid all the time, justifiably, and makes them susceptible to supporting the surrender of their own privacy and liberty to be sufveilled and quote safe.

  122. Your State is not at all typical, and unless it’s Texas it’s not a very large state, either.

  123. Africans are Africans, gypsies are not. Gypsies (“Roma” in Slovakia etc), for all their characteristic anti-social flaws are not as large, and not remotely as violent and aggressive in the physical sense as Africans and African-”Americans.”

    Foolish comparison.

  124. You perceive any and all gene mixing as a good thing, without regard to the nature and origin of the genes? Let’s hope you didn’t give that advice to your kids ;)

  125. Well then, no problem with banning guns and surrendering the ones we have. I’m sure we can get the aggressors in our society to agree to use only stones and knives when coming after us.

    And by the way, even armed with NOTHING, or only a knife, a man of any race will be able to overpower, rape, torture, kill the typical woman, typical elderly person, handicapped person, or simply sleeping and surprised person.

    Their lives and rights don’t matter, though, because YOU think you’ll be able to fend off an attacker who has only a knife or no weapon at all. Which I wouldn’t be too sure about if you are surprised and/or outnumbered, even if you’re a big guy or very strong guy in excellent shape.

    In the real world, as opposed to the theoretical one where gun-controllers seem to get their ideas so often, only a gun in the hands of the putative victim will provide a reasonable chance at saving a woman, a small man, an elderly person, or a handicapped person from horror and death.

    All civilized people who are able should take some basic gun safety / accuracy classes and keep shotguns at home for defense, in city or suburbs or wherever.

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  126. I grew up in a densely populated suburb near New York City with little gun culture, nobody except off-duty cops carrying openly, and almost nobody having a concealed-carry permit.

    And yet, I agree with him and share his principles and common-sense observations, not just his “preferences.” Logic and experience aren’t confined to the country.

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  127. About fifteen years ago, my sister pulled out a handgun when two men approached her in a large, almost-empty parking lot at night in Albuquerque, NM. They had to walk a decent distance to get to her, and there was no other apparent reason for them to walk that way.

    The men refused to stop walking towards her when she said “I’m armed, back off”, but the fuckers ran when she actally pulled the gun.

    Should she have submitted to rape and possible murder instead because guns are “too scawy”?

    By the way, she is short and slight and would have had zero chance without that gun.

    Also by the way, to inflame the gun-controllers’ and lefties’ sensibilities further with those pesky facts, the men appeared Mexican. Boy, Trump was just being racist and unfair when he said that Mexico isn’t sending us their best.

    I mean, who are we gonna trust, our own eyes or gun-controllers’ lectures about how they WANT to believe the world works?

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  128. …having enemies on their borders, they need to be able to mobilize rapidly…

    How could Fwed, a Vietnam war veteran, write something so wrong? It’s positively delusional.

    Hey Fwed, maybe it’s time to get yourself up to speed on the subject of the State of Israel, and maybe you could start with Uri Avnery’s “1948. A Soldier’s Tale – The Bloody Road to Jerusalem”

    Even Fwed should not find it hard to believe Avnery’s tales of gratuitous murder, theft, and rape committed on the people of Palestine which was not written as fiction.

    Since Fwed’s topic is gun control, here’s a little snippet about it.

    Avnery relates a conversation between soldiers after a night of capturing and looting an essentially undefended Arab village …

    “…We [Israelis] had surrounded the village and called through loudhailers for [the Arab townspeople] to bring out their weapons. You should have seen how they ran to give up their weapons. It was a joy to watch. Then we went from house to house to search them. Then suddenly we…beat it quickly [because the Brit were showing up].

    ‘To hell with those Brits,’ cursed someone in the next vehicle. ‘ I had my eyes on a nice little one, well rounded with really dark eyes. Just when I was about to grab her we had to disappear.’

    ‘Ugh! Do you want to rape Arab women? The man with the mustache played holier-than-thou.

    ‘So what? War is war. I can’t see what’s wrong with that!’

    ‘Why not?’ a third joined in. ‘If you can kill, you can also rape.’

    That is something different. In war you have to kill. But to rape-that is disgusting.”

    ‘Especially with a stinking Arab woman!” sneered the man with the mustache.”

    From page 247 of the 2008 edition

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  129. I grew up in a densely populated suburb near New York City with little gun culture, nobody except off-duty cops carrying openly, and almost nobody having a concealed-carry permit.

    And yet, I agree with him and share his principles and common-sense observations, not just his “preferences.” Logic and experience aren’t confined to the country.

    Oh, what can I say? Shit happens. But note that I don’t blame your …hmm, how do I put it?… misconceptions? on your (or ‘your people’) genetics. Human brains are plastic, and sometimes something goes wrong, circuits get crossed. It’s not your fault, brother. And thanks for all your replies.

  130. Should she have submitted to rape and possible murder instead because guns are “too scawy”?

    Sadly, the typical Northern, urban liberal feminist woman is more afraid of guns than she is of getting raped. Not so much for the Southern and Western woman.

    But the little snowflakes whose sum total of life experience is going to a prestigious college and reading lots of sociology books about the “oppression of the patriarchy” would rather disarm everyone else than arm themselves.

  131. Children who grow up in normal white households with guns do NOT “wave around” guns carelessly

    .

    If a child has been raised to handle a gun respectfully (probably as Fred was) then I agree with you. However even among ‘normal’ white families, the divorce rate being what it is now, those kids don’t get the same parenting and, yes, they are likely to turn out quite feral and especially so when it come to gun handling.

    As for the statistics, just look up the numbers on accidental shootings by kids – and compare them to, for example, the UK.

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  132. amazon go just came out with an auto check out program. testing starts in 2017. cashiers will be out of a job the moment that passes field tests.

    automation is coming. unemployment is coming. civil unrest is coming. our govt is doing jack shit about it. prepare yourselves.

  133. I’m not that this even deserves are response but you cannot create policy based on lone wolfs.

  134. My reply to your two comments:

    (1) You didn’t read what I said – check my first paragraph if you can be bothered.

    The Israel comment was intended to be sarcastic – the shootings in ‘self defense’ (as is claimed) actually being murders. Seeing those settlers swaggering around with their guns makes me sick.

    YOU think you’ll be able to fend off an attacker who has only a knife or no weapon at all. Which I wouldn’t be too sure about

    (2) Again, you’re not reading straight. I said if somebody is setting out to attack me (and I happen to be unarmed), I’d rather he does so with a knife or a rock because, regardless of my strength or skill in unarmed combat – or my ability to run faster, I have a better chance of survival than if he has a gun.

  135. I can make a 147 gr Gold Dot hit 600 ft-lbs at the muzzle, Ace.

    Just not by “+P”-ing a 9mm luger, nor in the 38 Super.

    When you find a professional data source for +P 380 ACP, do let us rubes know, will you?

    If you peruse this resource, complete with +P handloading data on 9mm luger and 45ACP, you might notice there’s no such thing listed for 380.
    http://www.accuratepowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/WesternLoadGuide1-2016_Web-1.pdf

    This silliness has gone on long enough. All I noted was that your advice to “hand load” to gain a non-trivial increase in muzzle energy was based on nothing. I can think of several reasons to hand load ones own ammo, but the one you chose isn’t one any experienced individual would cite.
    Why do Poster Children for Dunning-Kruger so often insist on commenting?

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  136. why you shot the intruder and killed your eight year old daughter in her bed through the gypsum board drywall separating your bedroom from hers.

    Ah, the backstop problem. Reason #543 why stupid people shouldn’t handle firearms.

    Literally no one who has given this thought advises blasting away with your .30-30 lever action Marlin inside one’s own home.

    If it’s all you’ve got….

    Or if like a friend of mine used to, you live in a home with poured concrete walls.

    And if you’re wearing really good hearing protection. Don’t you ever want to laugh at some TV show or movie where there’s a huge fire-fight involving things like AK’s, and afterward everyone is talking normally to each other, or even whispering?

    The Internet is nothing if not saturated with strange opinions about gun-related things. I suspect there’s more of that than reports claim there is pornography.

  137. Heck, while we’re at it, let’s get that “shoots around corners” doohicky I’ve seen on TV once or twice. It mounts a pistol into an armature that can turn 90 degree left or right and has a video camera in front and a display screen in back.

    Operator hangs the gun and camera around the corner….which is only useful if the corner is made of something that will deflect a bullet, of course, not so useful in sheet rock and stick home.
    —————————
    With luck, the lousy GOP Congress and (unknown) Trump will pass the Hearing Protection Act and finally let us equip our guns with what for a car is a required accessory: A muffler, by taking silencers out of the NFA 1934 where they never belonged in the first place.

    Discharging any gun (even a 22) inside a home is really bad for ones hearing. Putting a “silencer” (better termed a suppressor) on a pistol would be far preferable even if it makes the package a little long. Discharging a rifle (bullpup or otherwise) inside an enclosed space has to be utterly catastrophic for ones hearing. A single shot in a hallway might cause significant permanent hearing loss.

    Use of firearm suppressors should be encouraged, not hindered by 80 year old idiocy, red table and excise taxes.

  138. About fifteen years ago, my sister pulled out a handgun when two men approached her in a large, almost-empty parking lot at night in Albuquerque, NM.

    Good for her! Always great to hear a story of someone who took the protection of their own life seriously enough to prepare for it, the same as we expect people to learn how to use a fire extinguisher, an automated defibrillator or other tool useful for prevention of harm.

    The presence of a fire extinguisher doesn’t cause people to play with fire, the presence of a spare tire and a jack don’t cause drivers to steer toward glass and nails in the road, and the presence of a concealed firearm doesn’t cause its carrier to seek confrontation (if anything, the legal repercussions of a shooting insure the opposite…people generally are more averse to confrontations that could escalate.)

    People are responsible, or they’re not.

  139. As for the statistics, just look up the numbers on accidental shootings by kids – and compare them to, for example, the UK.

    Isn’t this like comparing the statistics on drowning between a coastal community and the middle of a desert? Or comparing rape statistics between a coed college and an all-girls school?

    As for comparisons to the UK, assuming there were apples-to-apples statistics, I’d like to see stats on rapes, armed robberies, knife attacks, etc. compared to various cross-sections of the USA. I know the UK and USA tally crimes in very different ways, making direct comparisons difficult, but my guess is that places where people have no means (and little legal right) to defend themselves are saturated with violent crime.

    Lest we forget, there’s always the Rotherham abomination….

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  140. Isn’t this like comparing the statistics on drowning between a coastal community and the middle of a desert? Or comparing rape statistics between a coed college and an all-girls school?

    Very much like that – if the missing agent is water in your first example and males in your second then in the case of UK it is … guns.

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  141. John Jeremiah Smith [AKA "Bill Haack (AKA MCPO)"]
    says:
         Show CommentNext New Comment

    This silliness has gone on long enough.

    No, it hasn’t. You continue to demonstrate what a totes asshole you are, and I continue to be amused. I say something, and you flail the Internet looking for references. Funny as all hell.

  142. Blacks are dangerously angry, and are ready to rock and roll.

    Blacks haven’t rock-and-rolled since the Bus Boys in the ’80s, and they were already seen as weird then.

  143. And alcohol poisoning is rare in Saudi Arabia.

    As for crime, the lack of it is responsible for the lack of guns in England (I’ll leave the Celtic fringe for Macs to analyze), not the other way around. Violent crime was relatively rare long before modern laws came into force. People moved into cities where the pests were much smaller and required other means to eradicate.

    In the UK, or at least England, men were required by law until 1960 to keep and maintain bows and meet for frequent practice. I don’t think that had been enforced in generations. But I wonder what the arrow accident rates were then.

  144. Nobody carries a gun in Northeast cities or suburbs?

    That’s demonstrably false. Hundreds of thousands of pistol permit holders in CT disprove that claim. I am one of them and I carry a gun every single day as a civilian. I personally know of dozens of other permittees that do the same, and belong to several shooting organizations in CT with thousands of members also carrying guns daily.

    Why? Only an imbecile would enter the crime-infested cesspool of a city like Bridgeport or New Haven without protection. And only a bigger imbecile believes that the evildoers stay within city limits.

  145. .223 over penetrates? only if you use FMJ ammo.

    Proper defensive ammo such as Hornady TAP does not overpenetrate.

    But anyone who actually understands ballistics knows that.

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  146. Don’t waste your time.

    I’ve encountered trolls before, but this guy is in a class by himself. On the Internet, of course, everyone is GI Joe (tall, muscular, keen of eye, etc.) I think it’s a consequence of all those hours mainlining Code Red while kicking ass in Call of Duty.

    I’ve said it before; semi-anonymous commenting on the ‘Net has turned lots of people into chicken-sh-ts who, in a prior age where insults could get you killed outright, would cause the vast majority of them to STFU.

    JJS obviously hits new highs in Know Nothing, Big Mouth. The best part is, if he actually acts on his idiocy, he’ll reap the reward.

  147. Hey Jaques,

    Though that reply was directed to moi, I think it was not the intention! Should have been to Fred.

    However, Avnery is a great person to me, he sees that he was part of war crimes, long a voice of reason since.

    Grand old man, he almost always makes sense.

    I must find the book you mention.

    Thx.

  148. France, Germany, Austria all have over 30 per 100 people, as have Sweden, Norway and Iceland.

    Some organ, Gun Week if I remember, reported back in the ’90s that automatics were still legal in Denmark and Finland, which they sure are not in the US. (Well, technically they are, as are heroin and other “controlled substances”. But no new permits have been issued in decades; you can only buy up old ones from those already licensed.)

    Anyone know the present laws on automatic weapons in those and other European countries? The Danish farmer I stayed with in the mid ’80s still had his rifle from the Home Guard, though he was long since retired.

  149. The “constitution” has allowed almost everybody to acquire a firearm…

    Actually, it’s English common law. Which makes sense for Anglo-Saxons. And, like certain words and pronunciations (e.g., “fall” for autumn), survives in the diaspora more than in the homeland.

    When Messrs Ryan and Hamilton shot up their villages, Parliament could simply have disarmed their fellow Celts, and left the English alone. The difference in criminal violence between the Celtic fringe and the English is mirrored in the same difference between “Scots-Irish” and English in America, after centuries of separation.

  150. In private conversation the question is explicitly racial–though one must never, ever, point out the obvious.

    But Fred’s own piece isn’t. Check out this section of an 1832 law in his own Commonwealth of Virginia:

    No free negro or mulatto shall be suffered to keep or carry any firelock of any kind, any military weapon, or any powder or lead; and any free negro or mulatto who shall so offend, shall, on conviction before a justice of the peace, forfeit all such arms and ammunition to the use of the informer; and shall moreover be punished with stripes, at the discretion of the justice, not exceeding thirty-nine lashes. And the proviso to the seventh section of the act, entitled, “an act reducing into one the several acts concerning slaves, free negroes and mulattoes,” passed the second day of March, one thousand eight hundred and nineteen, authorizing justices of the peace, in certain cases, to permit slaves to keep and use guns or other weapons, powder and shot; and so much of the eighth section of the said recited act as authorizes the county and corporation courts to grant licenses to free negroes and mulattoes to keep or carry any firelock of any kind, any military weapon, or any powder or lead, shall be, and the same are hereby repealed.

    Funny how the European solution is to treat everyone like a nigger. That wouldn’t fly in America.

    But Fred’s own treatment of everyone like an Anglo-Saxon would horrify his ancestors.

  151. says:
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    A curious expression, “over penetrates”. Anything in FMJ penetrates more than will a hunting tip, or any kind of soft tip, in a constant-density target. A .223 soft-point will go through a human if it doesn’t hit bone, and then carry just as far as FMJ, within parameters of bullet weight ballistics, of course.

    Why keep a .223 rifle for home defense, when a 9mm does the job without risking your own children? Why keep a special clip of pricey stuff like Buffalo ammo on the nightstand for a quickie change of ammo that won’t pick off one of your neighbors standing at his refrigerator?

    I keep a Mossberg 500 conversion for home defense, loaded with #6 pellets. None of that “double-ought buck” movie script stuff.

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  152. says:
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    Buffalo Bore has .380 +P 90 gr. JHP. Also, MagTech carries it in 85 gr.

    The real question is, .380 guns being designed for CC by dainty women, can you risk putting +P ammo in an auto pistol?

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  153. You beat me to the punch. Prior to reading your note I was on BB’s site and marveled at their “+P” loads for 380. They are in the claimed power range of standard 9mm luger loads, closing in on 300 ft-lbs of energy.

    Three things occur to me: 1) the difference in case thickness between the 9 and the 380 is huge; the latter’s are paper-thin, causing me to wonder how pregnant BB’s +P spent cases look, 2) I wonder what effect more than a couple of them would have on a 9 oz, tiny little gun like a Kel-Tec P3AT or its Ruger Knock-off, and 3) what it would feel like to touch them off in such tiny little pocket pistols.

    I’m quite certain that Kel-Tec, Ruger, Kahr, etc. would say use of BB’s +P 380 ammo voids their warranty. Not sure about use in an all-steel gun like a Walther PPK, but those beat up your hand with standard ammo anyway, and they’re largely eclipsed by modern, lighter, just-as-concealable 9mm luger models available from Glock, S&W, Walther, etc.

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  154. To each his own. I concur with the utility of a standard pistol for nightstand (any one of them would do….9mm, 40, 45, 357 mag, whatever) and most of the time the need for 1-shot-DRT (dead right there) power is probably unnecessary.

    That said, if more than simply dissuading or frightening an intruder is called for, and because only penetrating to hit vital anatomical structures actually removes an assailant’s means of harming you, only gun & ammo combinations that provide adequate penetration under common conditions seem best.

    In ballistic gel (the only apples-to-apples means of comparing performance), FMJ 5.5 NATO 55gr loads tend to break apart and penetrate far less than, say, a 147gr FJM out of a 7.62 NATO or even a 123gr 7.62×39 out of an AK clone. Most soft points in 223/5.56 actually fail to penetrate far enough to satisfy the FBI standard 12-18″. The most modern loads like the 77gr OTM (open tip match) or Hornady’s TAP ammo do very well.

    Of course, it all really doesn’t matter that much unless you’re facing the 1 in a million odds that not only are you faced with an intruder but also that this particular intruder is so hopped up on PCP and/or so enraged at you that only turning off his physiology will stop him. Or if assailants wearing body armor becomes trendy.

    It’s primarily oriented toward military applications, but this discussion of small arms effectiveness, bullet construction, caliber etc. clears up a lot of misinformation about the 5.56 NATO/223 cartridge and the bullets found in widely available ammunition:
    http://dtic.mil/ndia/2008Intl/Roberts.pdf

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  155. says:
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    I believe I recall reading somewhere that only Beretta vouches for +P loads in their .380 Auto. My sister-in-law works in a big city, and packs one of those CC. Perhaps I am just biased for no reason, but I don’t like the gun, although I tend in general to like Berettas because they work so well. If she wants to buy a box of Buffalo in +P, I’ll be glad to try it out. Curious to see if it makes that Beretta jam like it does to Kel-Tecs.

  156. says:
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    That’s the behavior of lots of bullets in .22 caliber — they fragment. A .22LR just about goes poof from hitting bone in a rabbit. I don’t see how those relatively hi-vel military .223s ever manage to stay in one piece.

    I read the linked PowerPoint slides. I remember my uncle carrying-on over the selection of the .223. He said the real reason was one, and one only: reduced weight on the 11B infantryman. Hence also the ongoing search for reliable caseless ammo. Personally, I still like the .308/7.62 as an improvement over the 30-06.

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  157. Curious to see if it makes that Beretta jam like it does to Kel-Tecs.

    The P3AT is a great concept, never quite implemented (I’ve read mixed reviews of Ruger’s knock off LCP), but the Kel-Tec 32 ACP is unexpectedly reliable even given the antiquated semi-rimmed case. Not my first choice for life-and-death though, as no doubt you concur. Most men can conceal any of the subcompact 9′s available (in casual fall-winter-spring clothes, a full size 1911 even), but I get that women’s fashions are not so congenial to CC.

    Personally, I still like the .308/7.62 as an improvement over the 30-06.

    The M1-A eventually just recoiled too hard. One mag and a bruise, plus it weighed too much. But a great rifle & cartridge, for sure. My preference is the odd but interesting 6.8 SPC. Almost exactly in the middle between the 5.56 and the 7.62 NATO cartridges. Easy on the shoulder. A decent compromise in my view. In my opinion, if one doesn’t enjoy shooting something, one won’t practice with it. Makes me wonder how many people buy a gun and either never shoot it or run a few rounds down the pipe and “that’s good enough.”

  158. What the hell is the matter with you people…..toting around trashy plastic frame pistols…..and keeping silly mil assault rifles in the closet. Show some style and select weapons with historical significance. When visiting the big city, keep a Colt 45 or Webley 455 under the car seat. If it has to be a pistol, make it an elegant Luger with the wonderful Maxim toggle….. the jewell points naturally like your index finger. For walking around the big city, try the little S&W Model 60 snub nose 38 special, in honor of that great pistolero, Bernie Goetz. If you have to tote a pistol, at least make it a prewar PPK. Your humble commenter once ran an IPSC course with the little 5 shot M60 snubbie, to the amusement of onlookers. Reloading on the fly was interesting. For home defense, a Model 94 lever action (Winchester or Marlin) in 30/30 is more powerful than any handgun…one round at close range ends the argument permanently. I knew a fellow who swore by his 1858 Remington Black Powder 44 replica for home defense…he claimed if he missed, the perp would be scorched by the flash and buried in the smoke. Remember to keep the hammer down on an uncapped nipple. A real warrior would defend his home with a stick (no cams or wheels) bow or cross bow….give the perp a sporting chance.

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  159. toting around trashy plastic frame pistols

    Hear, hear. From the models I tried (many years ago, admittedly): S&W revolver or H&K pistol. No Berettas, no Glocks, definitely…

  160. Blasphemy!

    Your list didn’t begin with the 1911 and end with the 1911-A1, and you gave honorable mention to handguns whose bore diameter was less than 0.4″.

    A Colt in mirror polish Royal Blue from the Colt Custom Shop, or, if you’re from South of the Rio Grand, a mirror polish stainless version with Ivory grips, now that’s heirloom quality defense.

  161. You make some good suggestions, but a .30/30 is likely too powerful for home defense, with too much penetrating power at close ranges. If you live alone, no problem, but if others live in your house, they are at risk with any high powered rifle kept for home defense. Also, your hearing will be gone with after using such a loud gun in such a confined space. If you have the electric muffs that filter out loud reports, a 20 ga. with shot might be better. But I usually just defend my house with whatever I carry – either a .38 +P or hollow point, or a 9mm…sometimes a .45 acp.

    As you say, the model 60 is a great gun…I’m still looking for one, though I have other J frames. I get the impression that black powder guns are often used defensively by ex-felons who can’t own modern guns. Nothing wrong with that, if they aren’t violating the law of their state. Or you could get a couple of rotties.

  162. The fact remains that almost every household in Switzerland has a loaded fully automatic assault rifle available 24/7, and yet gun homicide is so low that it isn’t even broken out from other homicides in the official statistics.
    .
    The fact remains that gun control in Mexico DOESN’T WORK.
    .
    Why are you so intent on allowing innocent people to be shot to death by criminals?

  163. Speaking as someone who has a Webley MkVI and loves it to death – the pistol is a piece of crap. It’s more than a hundred years old so the metallurgy is unreliable, the bullet moves so slowly that when fired at 15 yards it is easy to distinguish the sound it makes leaving the muzzle and the sound when it hits the target. The ammunition is almost unavailable and costs $0.70 per round.
    .
    My carry pistol is a Bersa “Thunder” – an Argentinian reproduction of a Walther PPK. It is convenient but lacking in almost every other area.
    .
    I have a lot of different guns but I have found that the one I actually pick up when something goes bump in the night is the Beretta 92FS. Not the most powerful, but the one I am most comfortable handling when I am thinking about other stuff.

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