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”Slander” by Ann Coulter. Credit: Wikimedia Commons
”Slander” by Ann Coulter. Credit: Wikimedia Commons

Enough. I shall go deep into the Okefenokee Swamp, dwell in a hut of clay and wattles made, and live on crocodile meat and watermelons. The modern world is too much for me.

I have just read ¡Adios, America! by Ann Coulter, and discovered that Mexico, my current home, is a suppurating moral sore where men of fifty can legally screw little girls of twelve. Yes. It is perfectly legal. I know this is true because Miss Coulter says it is true. All a drooling pervert has to do is sweet-talk the child.“Hey, leetle girl, want an ice-cream cone? I geeve you a nice toy eef you let me….”

I am grateful to Miss Ann for the information. I have lived thirteen years in Mexico without encountering this astonishment. The Mexicans have not heard of it either. Mexican attorneys are unaware of it. The penal codes are barren of it. She in lone splendor knows of this officially sanctioned child-molestation..

Specifically she says that the age of sexual consent in Mexico is “12 in all but one Mexican state and 14 in the other.”

Twelve? My god, that’s barbaric. This is certainly what Miss Ann is peddling as the nature of Mexico and Mexicans. Of course all manner of gullible websites picked this up. Mexico, we are to believe, is now a freefire zone for doing children. Why, it’s legal.

But is it true?

Let us look at the actual law. In the newspaper business of earlier times, this was called “research” or “reporting,” and was thought to be good form in writing for publication.

Penal Code of the State of Jalisco Artículo 142-M.

“A quien tenga cópula o cópula equiparada, con una persona menor de edad o en una persona que no tenga la capacidad de comprender el significado de las cosas o de resistir el hecho, se le impondrá una pena de:”

“On one who copulates or the equivalent of copulation (“cópula equiparada”means penetration with anything other than a penis) with a person of minor age or who does not have the capacity to understand the significance of the act or to resist the act, will be imposed a penalty of:”

“1 Tres meses a cinco años de prisión, cuando la víctima tenga entre quince y menos de dieciocho años de edad y el acto se realice con su consentimiento por medio de la seducción, la cual se presume salvo prueba en contrario, o por medio del engaño;”

“1 Three months to five years of prison, when the victim is between fifteen and eighteen years of age and the act is realized with his or her consent by means of seduction, which shall be presumed unless there is proof to the contrary, or by means of deception”

“2 Ocho a quince años de prisión, cuando la víctima tenga entre quince y menos de dieciocho años de edad y el acto se realice sin su consentimiento, o cuando sea una persona que no tenga la capacidad de comprender el significado de las cosas o de resistir el hecho;”

2 Eight to fifteen years of prison when the victim is between fifteen and eighteen and the act is realized without his or her consent, or when the victim lacks the capacity to understand the significance or to resist. ”

3 Doce a veinte años de prisión, cuando la víctima sea menor de quince años de edad.”

Twelve to twenty years of prison when the victim is less than fifteen.

Maybe that sounds to you like license to screw little girls of twelve. To me it sounds like a long time in a Mexican jail. I do not recommend confusing the two.

The foregoing is the law in Jalisco, where I live. Similar laws exist in the other states. At risk of boring the reader, I offer another example from a randomly selected state: .

For the state of Campeche:

“Artículo 164 Comete el delito de estupro el que realice cópula con el consentimiento de persona mayor de catorce y menor de dieciocho años, independientemente de su sexo. Al que cometa el delito de estupro se le impondrán de seis meses a tres años de prisión y multa de doscientos a cuatrocientos días de salario.”

“Article 164: He commits statutory rape who copulates, with consent, with a person of more than fourteen years of age but less than eighteen, regardless of the person’s sex. A punishment of six months to three years of prison will be imposed on the perpetrator and a fine of four hundred days of salary.”

The age at which a young female can legally engage in sex with any consenting adult without restriction is…eighteen.

Now, Miss Ann could have discovered this in ten minutes on Google. (In fairness, though, it may be that internet service hasn’t reached New York.) Why didn’t she? The penal codes for all of Mexico are easily found here. Is she deliberately deceiving the reader (translated from the prissy journalese, this means “lying”) or is she so ideologically inflamed as to accept without checking anything derogatory about anything she doesn’t like? Actual malice? Reckless disregard for truth? Incompetence? Or just Miss Ann?

She is fiercely opposed to immigration from the Third World, which is reasonable since it is probably going to leave America poorer and bitterly divided forever. Yet it seems to me that she should stay within telemetry range of truth. Her book would be useful if she had done so. Instead it is a sustained partisan shriek, often lapsing into the silly.

For example, the subtitle is “The Left’s Plan to Turn Our Country into a Third World Hellhole.” I picture myself talking to my good left-liberal friend Diana:

Me: “Hey, Di, are you planning to make America into a third-world hellhole?”

Di: “Why, yes, Fred! I’m on the disease-importation committee.”

Come on, Ann. Grow up. This isn’t journalism. If it were any more slanted it would be vertical. Unsupported charges of encouraging pedophilia wouldn’t get past a desk editor at the Weekly Reader.

ORDER IT NOW

If she is so sloppy in her research–the most charitable explanation–regarding things I know about, how am I to accept her word on things I can’t check? And this stuff isn’t appreciated by Mexicans since it encourages every pervert north of Laredo to come down to prey on their children.

As so often happens when I read of Mexico in the American press, I see little resemblance to the country I live in. She tells with satisfied dudgeon of the inherent filthiness of Mexicans, who strew trash everywhere. Dirty diapers, plastic bags, used condoms, garbage. Really?

In the last few months, thanks to a major road trip, I have been in Guadalajara, Arandas, Aguas Calienties, Leon, Durango, Rosario, Mazatlan, Ls Paz, Cabo San Lucas, Jamai, San Pedro Itzican, and Loreto, among others. None was strewn with trash. My neighborhood is not strewn with trash.

I found myself wondering: has this tow-headed dragon even been to Mexico? Latin America? The book looks to be a protracted Google search. In her pronouncements about Third World hell-holes, she sounds like the sort of pampered geographic virgin who would go to Cornell—actually, she did go to Cornell—and derives her knowledge of Latin America from having eaten at Taco Bell.

Hell holes exist in the Third World, whatever precisely that is: much of the Moslem world, probably all of black Africa, India, Gaza—but aside from Belize, maybe Nicaragua, and Guatemala, there probably isn’t one below the Rio Bravo (I have never been to Nicaragua or Venezuela.)

Miss Ann is herself a curious piece of work. She is in her mid-fifties, but on her book jackets looks like a hot babe of twenty-two. Achieving this must require enough makeup to fill a peanut-butter sandwich, and I suspect that she has worked a couple of copies of Photoshop into smoking ruins. Do we have here a narcissistic attention-freak? A reporter might be a better idea.

¡Adios America! energetically favors ending immigration to America, a good idea which will not be adopted, but her unending railing against the Left ensures that the book will be read only by people who already agree with it. How bright is that?

Enough of hellholeagenesis. I am off to the Okefenokee, to live peacefully among water moccasins and weird-looking birds.

(Republished from Fred on Everything by permission of author or representative)
 
• Category: Ideology, Race/Ethnicity • Tags: Ann Coulter, Immigration, Mexico 
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  1. I’m not an expert, but the laws you cited seemed to say that it was illegal to have sex with someone who does not comprehend what is going on in the given age ranges, which is not the same as specifying the age of consent in general.

    According to UNICEF Ann Coulter is right and you are wrong:

    To give just a few examples of the heterosexual age of consent: If you are living in some parts of the United States, or in Egypt, it’s 18; in Northern Ireland, it’s 17; in Namibia, 16; in Sweden, 15; in Canada, 14; in Korea, 13; in Mexico, 12. But 16 is by far the most common age of consent.

    http://www.unicef.org/rightsite/433_457.htm

    … but again, I’m not an expert.

    • Replies: @justin
    , @NickG
  2. Isabella says:

    Tim Howells:

    I read, from the above translation as follows:

    “Eight to fifteen years of prison when the victim is between fifteen and eighteen and the act is realized without his or her consent, or when the victim lacks the capacity to understand the significance or to resist. ”

    “Without consent” means the person didn’t say “yes, lets get it on” or similar.

    “lacks the capacity to resist” is clearly a reference to the use of force.

    Neither of these terms refer to being ABLE to consent, or to an age of consent, but to the jail terms for perpetrators of an act on people of certain ages, thus younger children are quite specifically protected.
    Since the last section refers to persons between 15 and 18 years, that carries a limit of no sex, with or without consent (rape) on anyone under 18 yrs of age.

    I think if it were me, I’d take the wording of an act passed by the law makers of the country itself rather than the rather sus UNICEF, a branch of United Nations which carries a very dubious agenda.

    • Replies: @Tim Howells
  3. rienzi says:

    Fred: “As so often happens when I read of Mexico in the American press, I see little resemblance to the country I live in. She tells with satisfied dudgeon of the inherent filthiness of Mexicans, who strew trash everywhere. Dirty diapers, plastic bags, used condoms, garbage. Really?”

    Maybe they don’t trash the place in Mexico, Fred, but they certainly do in Southwest Florida. You can always tell when you are headed to the barrio by the incredible amount of litter on the side of the road. Just drive from Fort Myers to Lehigh Acres, to see what I mean. You don’t get this in the white gated golf course community areas. You don’t even see it in the worst parts of the ‘hood. Just what is wrong with these people?

  4. Geez, this is tough one, do I believe the documented research of a Connecticut-bred, Ivy League-educated, NYT-bestselling author, and former law review editor and U.S. Federal Court clerk…
    Or the anecdotal evidence from the uneducated guy from West Virginia who wrote the non-bestseller A Brass Pole in Bangkok: A Thing I Aspire to Be?

    Get real Fred, Ann is from the superior ethnic group which made America great. She has a problem assimilating to the inferior peasant culture. You don’t because you are closer to their level than to Ann’s.

  5. Isabella says:

    Clint Torres, you say:

    “Get real Fred, Ann is from the superior ethnic group which made America great. She has a problem assimilating to the inferior peasant culture. You don’t because you are closer to their level than to Ann’s.”

    Ye Gods and Little Fishes. “Superior ethnic group which made America great??? Where do I start?. You do read history, yes?
    Shall we start with Americas’ “superior ethnic culture” that included a totally unprovoked attack on Mexico with the theft of 1/3rd of it’s land? The multiple unwarranted invasions of sovereign countries inflicting death, injury, starvation and misery on how many countries at the last count? The genocide of the Plains Indians. The infliction of it’s currency on most of the world – the petrodollar – such that America got rich of the backs of poorer countries exchanging their goods for bits of paper?

    All your much vaunted “superior, Ivy League” writer did was quote from somewhere. From UNICEF – why is their word to be taken over the words of Mexico’s own lawmakers. Of course, I forgot, they are only “inferior peasants” what would they know.

    And there I was, thinking attitudes like this has died out with the erosion of the so called Upper Class Aristocracy of Britain and Europe. It didn’t die out at all. It just migrated over the pond.

    I think maybe you swilled the Obama Kook Aid of being the “indispensable” people. Now, who else what it who said something very similar, that his people were ethnically superior to the untermenchen. Ah yes, that’s right.

  6. MarkinLA says:
    @Isabella

    Shall we start with Americas’ “superior ethnic culture” that included a totally unprovoked attack on Mexico with the theft of 1/3rd of it’s land?

    We could if it was true. But alas it is not. The US annexed Texas which won its independence from Mexico. The border was in dispute and the Mexicans stupidly attacked an American force in the disputed territory.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nueces_Strip

    Now don’t be so stupid as to attack your enemy knowing they want your land so as to give them a reason to take more of it. The Mexicans thought they would win with their larger European trained army and get back Texas and Louisiana.

  7. @Isabella

    I’ve read Coulter’s book and her sources are well-documented. She uses LexisNexis for her research. Fred Reed uses anecdotes in his ex-pat community filtered through his diminished perceptions.

  8. Tom_R says:

    THE AGE OF CONSENT IN MEXICO IS INDEED 12
    US THE 3RD MOST POPULOUS COUNTRY ON EARTH MUST AND CAN BAN IMMIGRATION.

    Fred, I generally love your articles, but you lost me on this one.

    About the age of consent in Mexico, we must remember that law is not just what is on the books. It is a complex interplay of the statutes and practice, such as what is commonly done in the courts in any jurisdiction, the attitudes of police and prosecutors towards different crimes, procedural law, case law, corruption, and so on, and the end result may indeed be that in many cases, men who have relations with girls as young as 12 do not go to prison.

    For starters, the FEDERAL age of consent is Mexico is indeed 12:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_North_America

    Given that Mexico is a very promiscuous society and a totally corrupt one, I will not be surprised if a lot of men prey on girls as young as 12 and get away with it. As far as with consent, how can a girl under 18 even consent? The fact that Mexicans allow such a thing like “consent” under 18 (and all a man has to do is claim she consented) shows that they have indeed legalized pedophilia.

    As far as your statement that:

    “¡Adios America! energetically favors ending immigration to America, a good idea which will not be adopted”

    How can you say that it will not be “adopted”? Why? America is the 3rd most populous nation on earth and it should have banned immigration a long time ago. Do you allow immigration in your home? Do you leave your doors and windows open at night and let anybody and everybody come in and have a seat?

    No sensible person would allow strangers to invade his home, nor aliens to invade his country. The fact that the politicians are allowing this is proof positive of corruption in our country. The people can ban immigration by institution of binding superseding national referenda. See: ncid.us.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    , @jtgw
  9. I am glad to hear Mexico is such a swell place. The Mexicans can stay there; the ones who are here can move back. And they can take their other Central American kinsmen with them.

    • Agree: Retired
  10. Freddie is getting his moral high on, similiar to the morally righteous progs. I’m sure he lives in upper class enclaves of Mexico. Every latino area in my state most definetely is filthy with trash.

  11. @Tom_R

    The people can ban immigration by institution of binding superseding national referenda

    You can’t have a “national” referendum with 50 different sets of voting regulations. Did I say 50? Don’t leave out those places on the 2009-10 quarters. You can’t keep boriqueños and Virgin Islanders out if they’re citizens, too.

    Hell, even Fred could vote. In Jalisco.

  12. Michelle says:

    My Mexican co-worker once said, “Mexican men like their girls young”. This was in response to me telling her that when my ex and I stumbled into an hispanic neighborhood in San Antonio Texas, I saw a few pregnant girls who looked about 12. They were with men 10 and 15 years older. But, they all looked to be happy enough. What do you think those girls would be doing otherwise? Rocket Science?

  13. None was strewn with trash. My neighborhood is not strewn with trash.

    This makes Mexicans look even worse. They keep their territory clean, but trash ours. The only plausible excuse– they don’t know better– is shown to be invalid.

    The age at which a young female can legally engage in sex with any consenting adult without restriction is…eighteen.

    And liquor was declared illegal in America in… nineteen nineteen. We know how that works.

    Allan Wall cites a Mexican report that seven of ten rapes in one state happen within the family, and are rarely reported.

    • Replies: @Luke
  14. Borachio says:
    @Pat Gilligan

    Fred is one of the smartest people I’ve ever known (including Cambridge). Ms. Coulter is fairly smart and a helluva self-promoter. But I haven’t been to Mexico so I have no first-hand knowledge of who’s right.

    I’d bet on Fred.

    • Replies: @joe webb
    , @CCR
    , @Jus' Sayin'...
  15. anon • Disclaimer says:

    As so often happens when I read of Mexico in the American press, I see little resemblance to the country I live in. She tells with satisfied dudgeon of the inherent filthiness of Mexicans, who strew trash everywhere. Dirty diapers, plastic bags, used condoms, garbage. Really?

    If illegal immigration was dominated by young males from say the bottom 1/3 of the source population then might average behavior differ from the source population as a whole?

  16. iSteveFan says:
    @Isabella

    Shall we start with Americas’ “superior ethnic culture” that included a totally unprovoked attack on Mexico with the theft of 1/3rd of it’s land?

    You mean the land that the Mexicans stole from Spain?

  17. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    If Mexico is so great, why are the leaving by the thousands?

    • Replies: @bomag
    , @A.B Prosper
  18. RE: The Left’s Plan to Turn Our Country into a Third World Hellhole

    Most readers here would be shocked to learn they support most views of Senator Bernie Sanders, who our TV tells us is an evil socialist. Spend a few minutes to watch this recent interview to discover the truth, which includes:

    “Klein suggests that Sanders’ espousal of democratic socialism entails putting certain international concerns before national ones with policies “like sharply raising the level of immigration we permit, even up to a level of open borders.”

    Sanders responds: “Open borders? No. That’s a Koch brothers proposal. … a right-wing proposal” which [italics added]:

    … would make everybody in America poorer—you’re doing away with the concept of a nation state, and I don’t think there’s any country in the world that believes in that. If you believe in a nation state or in a country called the United States or UK or Denmark or any other country, you have an obligation in my view to do everything we can to help poor people. What right-wing people in this country would love is an open-border policy. Bring in all kinds of people, work for $2 or $3 an hour, that would be great for them. I don’t believe in that. I think we have to raise wages in this country, I think we have to do everything we can to create millions of jobs.

    You know what youth unemployment is in the United States of America today? If you’re a white high school graduate, it’s 33 percent, Hispanic 36 percent, African American 51 percent. You think we should open the borders and bring in a lot of low-wage workers, or do you think maybe we should try to get jobs for those kids?

    I think from a moral responsibility we’ve got to work with the rest of the industrialized world to address the problems of international poverty, but you don’t do that by making people in this country even poorer.”

    http://www.truthdig.com/eartotheground/item/watch_bernie_sanders_the_koch_brothers_would_love_to_open_us_20150730

    The Democrat Party must keep this mad man out of any debates. He’ll stomp Hillary.

    • Replies: @SBaker
  19. Oldvannes says:

    There is a big difference between what’s on paper and what is practiced.

    I’ll bet there are a lot of drug trafficking laws on the books as well. How’s that worked out?

    • Replies: @David In TN
  20. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    I find it curious that the author, who credibly self-identifies as an above-average authority on the cada-hombre experience in his adopted home country, would avoid speaking to observed or intuited Mexican mores re: “underage” sex — or make any meager attempt at advancing actual knowledge of this subject — and instead resorts to statutory boilerplate like an ambulance-chaser (itself begging a pretty curious trust in the local enforcement of de jure sexual morality). Basically it comes down to his Google search vs. Coulter’s Google search.

    Who cares about this pissing match over citations? Are we to believe that Mexico’s northern wastelands support an equally stringent attitude (or more so) toward free copulation with teenagers than do the mostly Anglo-Germanic Protestant settlements to their north? If there is an erroneous conventional notion about the land of the quinceanera and Tijuana bride, and the effette New Yorker naif you’ve constructed has been merely recirculating centuries-old stereotypes, could you do a little better than quote back some database search at us? Assuming there was ever a goal here beyond winning an Internet argument.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
  21. Truth says:

    Geez Fredro, every time you start clawing your way back to respectability around here with a few posts about the rioting, rampaging knee-grows…

  22. Was Ms. Coulter referring, perhaps, to Mexico’s age of consent to marriage? Just asking.

    “Hell holes exist in the Third World…but…there probably isn’t one below the Rio Bravo.”

    My dear Mr. Reed, can you say, “Favelas”?

    • Replies: @BigGaySteve
  23. List of youngest birth mothers
    1993 … Zulma Guadalupe Morales … 8 years … Her uncle … Mexico
    1964 … María Sanchez Gonzalez … 10 years … Mexico
    1967 … Hortensia Gomez Juan …10 years … Mexico
    2006 … Monserrat Alvarado Gómez … 10 years … Mexico
    2007 … Lucila … 10 years … Mexico
    2011 … Edith … 10 years … Mexico

  24. Mexico — Age of Sexual Consent
    Mary Jordan Tuesday, July 2, 2002
    Rape is prosecuted at the state level, and state laws vary. A review of criminal laws in all 31 states showed that many required that if, for example, a 12-year-old girl accused an adult of statutory rape, she had first to prove she was “chaste and pure.” Nineteen of the states required that statutory rape charges be dropped if the rapist agreed to marry his victim.

    Media Blackout: The Age of Sexual Consent in Mexico is Only 12!

    An example of this attitude can be found in Mexican national Diego Lopez-Mendez, who pleaded guilty in 2006 to sexually assaulting a 10-year-old West Virginia girl. Through an interpreter, he told the court: “In the pueblo where I grew up girls are usually married by 13 years old” I was unaware of the nature of the offense or that it was a bad crime.

    • Replies: @TWS
  25. joe webb says:

    Freddie, where i live in Silicon Valley, the local papers frequently feature mexicans as molesting kids. They also do a fair amount of burglary.

    Course, Blacks do not molest kids, they just rape, so spare the chillun first.

    Blacks also specialize in home invasion and robbery, something that mexicans don’t do much of.

    It is also recognized in the crime literature that this stuff is true of mexicans.

    I have read that Indians in Latin America, the fathers that is, often carry on with their daughters in ways that offend us yanquis. This may be just a vicious lie of course cuz Indians, like Negroes , are holy.

    Of course, Whites are up-tight and get upset about genital mutilation in Africa and the Middle East, and child molesting. We need to lighten up. different strokes.

    Joe Webb

  26. joe webb says:
    @Borachio

    I have been to mexico a few times and it is my observation that mexers litter like crazy.

    In one roadside taco stand near La Paz, I observed an affluent mexican man ( with late model pick-up truck ) eating his comida. When finished, he threw his trash on the ground when a garbage can was right next to him.

    At a campground near Todos Santos above Cabo San Lucas, on the Pacific and at the beach, I observed a carload of mexican late teens strike camp, get into the car and drive away cleaning their car of detritus by throwing it out the car windows.

    Mexico’s mestizos are average 90 in IQ, but this is beyond IQ. It has to do with anti-social attitudes, and mexican love of banditry. Chaco probably has never thrown his garbage in a garbage can in his life.

    Joe Webb

  27. Priss Factor [AKA "The Priss Factory"] says:

    “As so often happens when I read of Mexico in the American press, I see little resemblance to the country I live in. She tells with satisfied dudgeon of the inherent filthiness of Mexicans, who strew trash everywhere. Dirty diapers, plastic bags, used condoms, garbage. Really?”

    She exaggerates, but Mexicans are not the most orderly people.

    In America, they are more casual with their garbage than gringos are.

    • Replies: @Lucius
  28. “She is in her mid-fifties, but on her book jackets looks like a hot babe of twenty-two. ”

    I take it you don’t get Fox News in Mexico. If you want people to listen to you in America it’s helps to look good. In fact, if you’re a woman on the right it’s pretty much essential. Right wing guys don’t listen to ugly women.

  29. Hans Olo says:

    I lived southern Mexico for awhile, and I knew of 12-13 year old girls who had been married off. I even heard of a guy who *sold* his 11-year old daughter to a slimey American expatriate as a “bride”, although he was already married.

    Mind you, these were Mayan Indian peasants, so a bit backwards even by Mexican standards.

    Thing you have to bear in mind, in Mexico laws are widely disregarded to a much greater degree than in the US and other developed countries, so what is on the books is often somewhat irrelevant. In a way its a libertarian paradise.

  30. Seraphim says:

    Where does this disgusting habit to quote laws of a country which contradict a juicy story come from? Since when a scathing moral judgement emitted by a WASP has to be backed by evidence of offense? Since when truth matter? Reality?
    “We’re an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you’re studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we’ll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that’s how things will sort out. We’re history’s actors…and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.” (Whoever said that).

  31. Hans Olo says:
    @Isabella

    “As so often happens when I read of Mexico in the American press, I see little resemblance to the country I live in. She tells with satisfied dudgeon of the inherent filthiness of Mexicans, who strew trash everywhere. Dirty diapers, plastic bags, used condoms, garbage. Really?”

    Unless Mexico has changed dramatically since I was there last, in many places there really does tend to be a huge amount of trash strewn everywhere. I guess if you spend most of your time in upper class neighborhoods, not so much…

  32. Hans Olo says:
    @iSteveFan

    For the most part, it was a conflict was over who got to steal it from the Indians – the number of Hispanic settlers was in the 5 digits – but that doesn’t stop Mexico from drilling this resentment into its school children to this day.

  33. @Isabella

    Sorry, but I have to call BS on this. Since you don’t trust UNICEF I’ll try Wikipedia. This cites article 261 of the federal criminal code as stating the age of consent as 12 years of age. This is the age below which sexual relations are always considered illegal, which is the definition of the term. Wikipedia then lists the age of consent according to the laws of individual Mexican states, and overwhelmingly the age of consent is 12, but with a few exceptions.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_North_America#Local_laws

    I would not make a big deal about this except that Fred Reed, with an obvious agenda, has misrepresented the facts and then used his invented “facts” to smear Ann Coulter and accuse her of lying and slander.

    • Replies: @bossel
    , @WhatEvvs
    , @Isabella
  34. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @iSteveFan

    “You mean the land that the Mexicans stole from Spain?”

    You mean the land the effing spanish stole from some poor indigenous people?

    Anyway, people who think they are superior to another people, are the ones who commit maximum evil on this Earth.

    So, if ‘evilness’ makes you feel good inside, then good for you. But, that feeling is not going to last for long. Enjoy it, while you can.

    • Replies: @WGG
    , @Rich
    , @iSteveFan
  35. bomag says:
    @Anon

    If Mexico is so great, why are the leaving by the thousands?

    Because they are off to conquer territory.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  36. Mark Caplan says: • Website

    After a quick Google search, as the author of this article advised Ann Coulter to do, I learned that Mexican girls can legally marry at age 14, or even younger with a judge’s permission.

  37. CCR says:
    @Borachio

    My socially liberal mother decided to learn Spanish and this put her in contact with some Mexicans here in Texas. She broke off contact because of her disgust in learning one of the males (about 45) she met had brought a 12 year old girl up from Mexico and got her pregnant.

  38. unit472 says:

    I read the arrest reports almost everyday here in Manatee County, Florida and whatever the law may say in Mexico the custom and practice of Mexican men here does seem to indicate that having sex with underage girls ( often their girlfriends daughters) is not seen as ‘forbidden’ if we go by the number arrested for the offense. The problem these unreconstructed paedo’s have is that these young Mexican-American girls have been going to American schools and they no longer accept Mexican custom and practice and they will tell either mom or a police detective.

    That’s the bad side of Mexican culture. There is a good side to it as well. Americans might learn from Mexico how to have pride in your national heritage even if its accomplishments are small. You do not see Mexican mestizos, whites or Indians trashing their culture. They are pretty comfortable in their skins no matter the color and do not adopt ridiculous made up names to set themselves apart. The language is Spanish and so are the names so far as I can tell.

    I’d ask Fred or someone else who lives in Mexico this question. Is the adoption of Aztec culture and names happening in Mexico or is this a Mexican American thing? I do see Mexican American criminals on US prison documentaries sporting Aztec themed tattoos and even names. Is this happening in Mexico too?

  39. Hibernian says:
    @Anonymous

    People holding coming out parties for their daughters are not generally declaring them fair game for older men. (Maybe some are.) Rich Americans have debutante parties for their daughters. The age at which the parties are held differs by about three years between the two cultures.

  40. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Fred, you are “off the reservation” on this one. A bit of Internet research and Ann’s claims about the age of sexual consent in Mexico are corroborated. But, does it matter? Mexico is generally a lawless society. If you have money and connections, you can get away with practically anything, including murder. If you have a legal problem … well, you didn’t get your politics right. Suspect this would apply to having sex with young girls regardless of their ages or the age restrictions specified in law.

    • Replies: @WGG
  41. @rienzi

    I have not observed littering in Mexico to the degree that I see Latins littering here. I think it is the result of a combination of causes. We are not exactly getting the best and brightest flooding across our border. The illiterate peasants and criminals we see in our cities and jails are not a representative cross section of the Mexican population in general. Also, this is not their home and they don’t give a damn, they probably wouldn’t throw trash on the street where they come from either. I have seen this phenomenon here in the Florida panhandle where white, upper middle-class asshats from all over the North drop their trash on the beaches.

  42. Fred, it doesn’t matter what the damned law is. What matters is what these ignoramus Amer-Indians from below the border are actually DOING when they get up here. Go to any jail and see why those Spics are in there: DUI, driving without a license, public disturbance, and sex with underage girls. It’s a fact.

  43. @Pat Gilligan

    do I believe the documented research of a Connecticut-bred, Ivy League-educated, NYT-bestselling author, and former law review editor and U.S. Federal Court clerk…
    Or the anecdotal evidence from the uneducated guy from West Virginia

    While Fred does not have Coulter’s academic chops, he is not uneducated. Fred was a national merit finalist, and went on to obtain a B.A in Science from Hampden-Sydney, after serving as a Marine in Vietnam (purple heart for shrapnel in the eye, he is now legally blind). He returned to Vietnam as a war correspondent for the Army Times. He went on to be a columnist for Solider of Fortune, and a technology and police beat reporter for the Washington Times – among other pursuits. I suppose the reference to his birthplace is your attempt to insinuate the prevailing prejudice among yankees, that being born in the South makes you a hick.

    I have only known Fred through his writings but I have found him to be literate, smart, insightful and witty. That being said, I believe in this article, he is perpetrating that of which he accuses Coulter. He lives in Mexico, albeit in a area with a large population of expats, has a Mexican wife, daughter and many Mexican friends. Perhaps he is reacting defensively, as a man whose friends and family have been insulted. I disagree with him, but will not hold it against him. He has stated numerous times that he is against the destruction of U.S. culture by mass immigration.

    • Replies: @Big Bill
  44. syonredux says:
    @Isabella

    The genocide of the Plains Indians.

    As opposed to the gentle way that Mexico treated its Amerinds?

    The Caste War of Yucatán (1847–1901) began with the revolt of native Maya people of Yucatán, Mexico against the population of European descent, called Yucatecos, who held political and economic control of the region. A lengthy war ensued between the Yucateco forces in the north-west of the Yucatán and the independent Maya in the south-east. It officially ended with the occupation of the Maya capital of Chan Santa Cruz by the Mexican army in 1901, although skirmishes with villages and small settlements that refused to acknowledge Mexican control continued for more than two decades.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste_War_of_Yucat%C3%A1n

    One estimate on deaths:

    Mexico
    Govt vs. Yucatan Maya
    COWP: 300,000

    And then there was the quaint Mexican practice of paying for Apache scalps:

    In 1835, the government of Sonora put a bounty on the Apache which, over time, evolved into a payment by the government of 100 pesos for each scalp of a male 14 or more years old. Later, Chihuahua offered the same bounty for males plus a bounty of 50 pesos for the capture of an adult female and 25 pesos for a child under 14.

    In 1849, the bounty laws in Chihuahua were formalized and strengthened. Apache adult male prisoners were worth 250 pesos each and females and children were valued at 150 pesos. Dead adult male Apache and worth 200 pesos, the scalp to be given to local governments for verification. The state that year paid out 17,896 for scalps and prisoners.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache%E2%80%93Mexico_Wars

  45. Marian says:

    Some women age well, but let’s do a final parting shot by discrediting Coulter on her age and looks. Sounds rather mean girlish. Perhaps the solution is for the emotionally delicate Mexican and Central American males to stay home where 12 year old girls can consent away. We here are too prudish to understand the sophistication of sexing up an impressionable, immature child.

  46. Seraphim says:
    @bomag

    Any news about the República del Norte? Aztlan?

    • Replies: @bomag
  47. WGG says:

    I have accidentally stepped in many a parking-lot-diaper-bomb living in Southwest Texas. I have kids, and I changed their diapers in the back of my suv like many, but I always found a way to throw the diapers in the trash- double bagged so people wouldn’t gag on the smell. It must be all those darn Japanese and Canadiens leaving human feces traps around here.

    As for the cultural pedophilia, you’re wrong, dude. Long before I ever read an HBD blog, I was well indoctrinated in the public school dogma of “not noticing” and anti-racism. Regardless, my friends and I at ages 11,12, 13, and 14 discussed the constant cat-calling from middle-aged Mexican men. But what really struck us as crazy, is that by the time we were actually looking good at ages 18, 19, the old-man catcalling had completely stopped, and not because we got fat or something. Any white person would say we looked much better, proportional instead of boxy, etc. at age 18. But, like Pedobear, they “do not want.”

  48. @Borachio

    Ann Coulter understands what “age of consent” means and Fred Reed either doesn’t or is being deliberately disingenuous, i.e., lying. None of Reed’s quotes address the issue raised by Ann Coulter. In Mexico, as Coulter stated, it is completely legal in many places for a man to have sexual intercourse with a thirteen year old girl as long as the girl has “willingly” given her consent. The material that our frail Reed provides is irrelevant, as a careful reading will show.

  49. WGG says:
    @Anonymous

    Thought crimes are maximum evil? Not actually hurting people? So Albert Schweitzer was a committer of “maximum evil” while Jim Jones, being a spewer of racial egalitarianism is some kind of saint?

    Also, it’s okay to be pious and claim superiority over an individual (as you did in your post) but not a culture? Why?

    Furthermore, have you ever considered that people who like America the way it was before the invading Mexican hordes are simply showing a preference? Do homosexual men necessarily consider themselves superior to women or is it just a preference? After all, we are not asking to change Mexico’s national character, as they are doing to us, so who is the actual racial and cultural supremacists? Mexico is the most nationalistic country on earth, so does that make them “maximum evil?” Uh-oh.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  50. Biff says:

    Well, let’s cut to the chase, and find out where the pedophiles are. The top five countries that have the most child prostitutes are:
    Sri Lanka
    Thailand
    Brazil
    United States
    Canada

    Mexico doesn’t make the list.
    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/top-five-countries-highest-rates-child-prostitution-1435448

  51. Rich says:
    @Anonymous

    “Effing Spanish stole…?”, “People who think they are superior…commit maximum evil…”, do you not see the stupidity of your remark? Aren’t you feeling a little superior to the “effing” Spanish and those who think differently than you and therefore, by your reasoning, committing “maximum evil”?

  52. Biff says:
    @rienzi

    You can always tell when you are headed to the barrio by the incredible amount of litter on the side of the road. Just drive from Fort Myers to Lehigh Acres, to see what I mean.

    You’re describing a place in the United States, so why don’t you do something if you live there, besides just complaining?

  53. Biff says:

    As so often happens when I read of (fill in the blank) in the American press, I see little resemblance to the country I live in.

    I have experienced this in the past – and will in the future.

  54. expat says:

    two comments:
    1.) Sex between teenagers and older adults may or may not be wrong, depending on the details, but it is ***NOT** pedophilia!! The definition of pedophilia is sex between adults and pre-pubescent children, and the vast majority of teenagers are not prepubescent. Words have meanings!

    2.) It amazes me that nobody seems to remember that — right here in the good old USA — the legal age for marriage for girls was 12 within living memory (Jerry Lee Lewis, anyone?) … And not just in the backwoods of hillbilly Appalachia either. As recently as the 1940’s and maybe even into the 1950’s Massachusetts was still following English Common Law of marriage: 12 for girls and 14 for boys. (with parental consent, of course).

    Argue all you want, but at least get your facts straight.

    • Agree: jtgw
    • Replies: @TheJester
  55. @Oldvannes

    “There’s a big difference between what’s on paper and what is practiced.”

    “I’ll bet there are a lot of drug trafficking laws on the books as well. How’s that worked out?”

    I had a Mexican-American friend explain this to me years ago. He referred to the Mexican ruling-political class as “a bunch of crooks.” To get any help from the police or government you had to have “connections.”

    • Replies: @Hibernian
  56. Fred Reed says:

    The following is an email from me to Ron Unz:

    “Ron,

    I have read the UNICEF document. I have also talked to three Mexican attorneys, two of them specializing in human rights to include the current subject matter and one an ardent feminist. All regarded the age-twelve assertion as nonsense.

    I am inclined to think that the actual Mexican law is more determinative than what other sources think, even Vdare and Wikipedia. The examples of law I gave are my translations, but they will hold up. They are from .gob sites and the UNAM, which is to say sites of the government. They seem to me abundantly clear.

    I asked a friend–she is line for a judgeship–to see whether the phrase “age of consent”–la edad de consentimiento sexual–even exists in Mexican law. She ran a search on the jurisprudential site and nothing came up.

    Remember that Mexican law is not based on English common law. If you look at the examples I gave, you will find a sort of sliding scale of penalties, growing lighter as the girl nears eighteen, after which there are no penalties, assuming that she is of sound mind.

    The laws on the matter vary by state, and are fairly chaotic. Most but not all have gone gender-neutral, saying a person instead of a girl. A few still say that sex is a crime only if the girl is “honesta and casta,” honest and chaste, that is a virgin of good family. Often the law is that the crime will be prosecuted only if the victim or her family files a complaint. This I believe is a reflection of the fact that unchastity was until recently a source of humiliation and dishonor, and a family might not want a trial and the consequent publicity.

    I suggest that as a minimum standard, a reader who cannot read Spanish and relies on Yahoo Answers or the many gringo sites that peddle the age-twelve idea should be asked to do some homework. See whether they can find a Mexican governmental site which says the age of consent is twelve. Unless they can show that the examples of the law I gave are in fact not the law, they are just making noise.

    BTW, I know nothing of Korean law but before I accepted that 13 figure I would do some careful research. Often 13 would be prepubertal. Maybe it’s so, but few peoples are likely to let grown men do the deed with their sexually immature daughters. . Maybe Koreans to, though.”

    A lo largo de mis trece años en México, he visto que los estadounidenses que saben más del país y sus leyes son los que nunca han estado aquí, que no conocen a ningún mexicano, y que no hablan ni una sola palabra de de español. Go figure.

  57. I suspect Ann hit a sore spot. Fred married a much younger Mexican woman….

    • Replies: @Hibernian
  58. WGG says:
    @Anonymous

    Fred, you are “off the reservation” on this one. A bit of Internet research and Ann’s claims about the age of sexual consent in Mexico are corroborated. But, does it matter? Mexico is generally a lawless society. If you have money and connections, you can get away with practically anything, including murder.

    Too right. The awful death of Kirsty MacColl comes to mind.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirsty_MacColl#Death_and_its_aftermath

  59. Sex between teenagers and older adults may or may not be wrong, depending on the details, but it is ***NOT** pedophilia!! The definition of pedophilia is sex between adults and pre-pubescent children, and the vast majority of teenagers are not prepubescent.

    Well, it depends on your definition.

    A hebephile is a person who is primarily attracted to adolescents, or children who have at least started puberty and have signs of adult sexual maturation, but are still young and developing both mentally and physically. Generally this means teenagers and preteens between 11 and 14 years old.[1] The term and classification has some overlap or even confusion with the term “ephebophilia” which refers to the primary attraction to late- or post-adolescents ages 15-19.

  60. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Yo Fred!
    You can’t eat crocodile in the Okefenokee. They don’t have ’em.
    Come on down to the Everglades, where you can eat crocs, gators and Ptython!

  61. @Biff

    You’re describing a place in the United States, so why don’t you do something if you live there, besides just complaining?

    Great. Biff’s advice is to become a roadsweeper.

  62. “…dwell in a hut of clay and wattles made…”

    Its so weird that your quoting Lake Isle of Innisfree, as I first read that poem less than 90 minutes ago.

  63. Hibernian says:
    @Biff

    Are you recommending that he pick up after the residents of a Florida barrio, or are you endorsing anti-immigration activism, or something else?

  64. Hibernian says:
    @David In TN

    Not entirely different from the United States.

    • Replies: @David In TN
  65. syonredux says:
    @Biff

    MEXICO CITY, Aug 13 2007 (IPS) – The child pornography and commercial sexual exploitation industry enjoys total impunity in the Mexican capital, according to a report by the Mexico City Human Rights Commission.

    The “special report on commercial sexual exploitation of children in the Federal District” confirms that there are at least 20 spots in Mexico City where these illegal activities flourish, under the protection of corrupt elements in the police force.

    Although there are no figures on the extent of the phenomenon in the capital, an estimated 16,000 girls and boys are victims of sexual exploitation in this country of 108 million people.

    Emilio Álvarez Icaza, head of the local Human Rights Commission, complained about the lack of strategies to clamp down on the problem.

    “The state is largely absent in the question of commercial sexual exploitation of children,” Álvarez Icaza recently told the press. “We have compiled all of the reports that we requested, and in essence what we found is that there are no specific programmes or actions at the local level.”

    International organisations fighting child sex tourism say Mexico is one of the leading hotspots of child sexual exploitation, along with Thailand, Cambodia, India, and Brazil.

    http://www.ipsnews.net/2007/08/rights-mexico-16000-victims-of-child-sexual-exploitation/

    http://www.ipsnews.net/2005/12/rights-mexico-journalist-hit-with-libel-charge-after-exposing-paedophile-ring/

    http://www.ipsnews.net/2006/07/mexico-child-sexual-exploitation-fuelled-protected-by-economic-clout/

  66. (CNN)A 15-year-old boy has been charged as an adult with murdering and sexual assaulting an 8-year-old girl, whose body was found Monday in a recycling bin after she went missing in Santa Cruz, California, a prosecutor said Wednesday.

    Adrian Jerry Gonzalez also faces a kidnapping charge in the killing of Madyson “Maddy” Middleton, said Santa Cruz District Attorney Jeffrey Rosell.

    http://edition.cnn.com/2015/07/29/us/california-missing-girl-murder-charge/

  67. syonredux says:
    @Biff

    Rape as a “Family Value”
    In the northern Mexican state of Durango (birthplace of Pancho Villa):

    [R]apes are not reported because 70 percent of them are committed by close family members such as fathers, brothers and uncles.

    ([L]as violaciones sexuales no son denunciadas debido a que el 70 por ciento de las agresiones son cometidas por familiares cercanos como los padres, hermanos o tíos.)

    [Evitan denunciar familiar violador (“They avoid reporting a family rapist”), by Gomez Palacio, el Siglo, July 11, 2015. Translations mine throughout]

    Remember George W. Bush’s slogan about how “family values don’t stop at the Rio Grande”? For Durango rapists, rape is a family value. Are we supposed to believe such men would never victimize Americans?

    http://www.vdare.com/articles/mexican-media-memo-rape-as-a-family-value-mexicos-most-violent-state-and-a-mexican-indian-gets-dropped-from-university

    • Replies: @Biff
  68. @Fred Reed

    I asked a friend–she is line for a judgeship–to see whether the phrase “age of consent”–la edad de consentimiento sexual–even exists in Mexican law. She ran a search on the jurisprudential site and nothing came up.

    Why didn’t you just ask her what the law is?

  69. @Fred Reed

    A lo largo de mis trece años en México, he visto que los estadounidenses que saben más del país y sus leyes son los que nunca han estado aquí, que no conocen a ningún mexicano, y que no hablan ni una sola palabra de de español.

    This interloping gringo is an expert because he spent a little over a decade in Mexico.

  70. syonredux says:
    @Fred Reed

    I have read the UNICEF document. I have also talked to three Mexican attorneys, two of them specializing in human rights to include the current subject matter and one an ardent feminist. All regarded the age-twelve assertion as nonsense.

    Then why not have them post a detailed account regarding Mexican rape laws? Have them carefully explain how UNICEF completely fails to understand Mexican law, etc.

    • Replies: @Existential Confusion
  71. Hibernian says:
    @FirkinRidiculous

    That’s more than a little unfair to Fred and Senorita Reed. She’s middle aged.

    • Replies: @Truth
  72. GW says:
    @Fred Reed

    a reader who cannot read Spanish and relies on Yahoo Answers or the many gringo sites that peddle the age-twelve idea should be asked to do some homework

    Gringo? Ha! You f’n cuck!

  73. syonredux says:

    Teen pregnancy in Mexico is rising, and some of those affected are very young. According to the 2012 national health survey, for every 1,000 women who give birth, 37 are adolescents between the ages of 12 and 19. That’s up from a rate of 30 in 2006.

    Eleven thousand births were registered to girls between 12 and 14 in 2011.

    What is worrisome about pregnancies at such a young age, particularly when the father is an adult, is that “the only explanation is sexual abuse,” says Juan Martín Pérez García, executive director of REDIM, the Network for the Rights of Children in Mexico.

    Mothers who are particularly young face increased risks in pregnancy: Nearly 14 percent of maternal deaths in 2009 were girls aged 12 to 15, according to Save the Children, an international nonprofit that is among those leading the calls for change. Laws governing the age of consent or legal marriage vary widely across the country, from 18 to as young as 12 years old. (Jalisco state only recently raised its age of consent to 15 from 12.)

    Complicating abuse cases, it’s often unclear which of numerous local, state, and federal agencies bear responsibility for investigating a crime and ensuring care for an abused child. Crime reporting in Mexico is dismally low, and that holds true for abuse cases. Fears that the government may take a child away also prevent many families from speaking up.

    http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Americas/2013/0220/Curbing-child-abuse-in-Mexico

  74. WGG says:
    @Fred Reed

    With the stats that the commenters have come up with, your assertion that Coulter is being derelict or deliberately obtuse has been proven false. You could be right about the law, and she wrong, but one can certainly find legitimate sources to support her case. So your accusations were out of line.

    As some commenters have pointed out, the way the law is applied is of utmost importance. As you mention, Mexican courts do not mold themselves to English Common Law, but are in fact civil law courts where judges have much more leeway and authority. Provide four or five recent cases where a grown man seduced a mentally and physically healthy 12, 13, or 14-year-old and was dealt with strictly and you will have won the point about the law. Otherwise, all you have is your interpretation of Mexican Law (you are not a lawyer) vs. UNICEF’s interpretation of the law (they are *many* lawyers.)

    • Agree: Travis, syonredux
  75. Fred is just a homer when it comes to his adopted country. He’s taken on some of the contempt of Americans that seems to accompany a real affinity for Mexico. (I’m talking you, Jeb!)

    The Mexican elite drips with contempt for the Americans, almost as much as the US elite. It trickles down through society.

    As for the idea that liberals understand the destruction their favorite policies create, well, of course they don’t. Their whole lives are spent cleansing their minds from disallowed thoughts. Its a full time job. If they falter, they cease to be liberals.

    I really want Fred to talk about Central Americans to see what he thinks of their societies and the effects of mass immigration to the US from that quarter. That would be more interesting since he doesn’t have a rooting interest.

  76. @syonredux

    Then why not have them post a detailed account regarding Mexican rape laws? Have them carefully explain how UNICEF completely fails to understand Mexican law, etc.

    So, should Fred just pay for a written legal opinion and detailed accounting of Mexican rape laws, and then pay for a written, carefully explained rebuttal of a UNICEF opinion – so that he can post those written documents here for your edification?

    • Replies: @syonredux
  77. Truth says:
    @Hibernian

    That’s more than a little unfair to Fred and Senorita Reed. She’s middle aged.

    It’s all relative; Fred owes Julius Caesar $5.

  78. Flower says:

    Wow, I’ve never seen Fred so diligently stepping all over himself before. It’s almost fun to watch. Fred, your knee jerk reaction to defend Mexico’s “honor”, especially when it comes to foreigners breaking American law, is interesting. The easiest reply to Fred would be to ask, “What’s the Mexican statute as to hanging bodies from bridges, or the decapitation of college students?” – but rhetorical questions rarely make the point.

    I think that what has happened here is an argument over the comparison of apples and oranges. Ms Coulter calls all of the illegal immigrants from Mexico, “Mexican”. This makes sense, as I don’t recall any illegal immigration coming from Greenland or Burma. Ms. Coulter doesn’t bother differentiating between Mexican, or Honduran, or El Salvadoran, or any other point(s) south, and it is perfectly acceptable and reasonable that she not do so. If it comes FROM Mexico, it is Mexican. This is a hard concept?

    Fred, your defense of Mexican rapists by showing us Mexican rape statutes is really phony (I refuse to use the word “disingenuous”). It would be more accurate to show us the statutes on rape from Honduras, and Guatemala, and El Salvador, and Columbia, etc. And not the statutes that protect rich white women either, but the statutes that cover the class of people that are moving north, i.e. the Peons. In the jungles of Central America, when you reach the level of destitution that the Central American working class enjoys, the only penalty that matters is a big brother or father or uncle with a 12 gauge. Can you imagine the joy that must come over the sexual animals from the south as they reach the US and find that American women are totally unprotected – especially the younger ones. I imagine it must be like an 8 year-old walking into a Candy Store with a brand new 5$ bill. Wow, and after you have raped a woman (even to death) the police will protect YOU! Now, how can you beat that?

    Yeah, I feel really busted up over this slight to Mexico. Hey Fred, I got an idea, if you want to mitigate all of this bad press on Mexico, if you want me, a US citizen, to think of your adopted country as anything other than a centuries old amalgam of uneducated masses being led by an oligarchy of rich land owners/Bandidos, then do something about the trash flowing thru your country and into ours.

  79. @Fred Reed

    Reed is still being deliberately obtuse, i.e., lying. And after doubling down on his mis-statements the way he has, lying is the only appropriate term.

    Using legal terms from Anglo-American law that her readers could easily interpret, Ann Coulter asserted that in Mexico it is legal under certain circumstances for a male to have sexual intercourse with a thirteen year old girl; a situation that most of us north of the border find repugnant. All the sources that I’ve been able to find confirm Coulter’s assertion.

    Our frail Reed responds with a high school debating trick; citing Mexican law regarding rape, which is totally irrelevant to what Coulter wrote and misleading in the extreme. Now our frail Reed doubles down, citing more Mexican rape law and going so far as to cite undocumented conversations with unnamed “friends” in support of his now obviously false and absurd position. This is a pathetic display of hebephrenic ineptitude.

    • Agree: Kyle McKenna
  80. pyrrhus says:

    Earth to Fred–it may be different where you live, but Mexico and Central America have massive amounts of sex with tweens, and pregnancies too. And when they come to the US, old habits don’t die rapidly. BTW, 80% of girls/women crossing the southern border illegally have been raped.
    Luckily, white liberals in places like Chicago (where I lived and practiced law for many years) are only too happy to ignore or at best hand out suspended sentences for such offenses, assuming that the defendant hasn’t jumped bail and headed back to Mexico or the southwest….

  81. annamaria says:
    @Pat Gilligan

    You mean, this Ann Coulter, a “Connecticut-bred aristocrat?” – “Ann Hart Coulter was born on December 8, 1961 in New York City, to John Vincent Coulter (1926-2008), an FBI agent who was a native of Albany, New York, and Nell Husbands Coulter (née Martin; died 2009), a native of Paducah, Kentucky.”
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ann_Coulter
    Ann Coulter is indeed quite famous as a defender of “values.” However, there are some issues… Ann is a single, aged woman, never married; she had sexual relationships with several men outside marriage (should we use her favorite word “promiscuity” here?) and she never got pregnant (did she use contraceptives, the same stuff that Ann slandered Ms. Fluke for?).
    Here is Ann’s problem. Even those people who would never judge others, feel that Ann pushes them to judge her, precisely because she has been preaching things (loudly and aggressively) that are incongruent with her own lifestyle. She is not a conservative (and she is not a real woman). Ann is a talented entertainer, but it was her choice to take a high pedestal to lecture other people, as a “Christian first” (in her own words), on the “values” that she herself was not able to uphold. She is basically a Newt Gingrich with long bleached hair. Sorry for caustic comment, but please, do not try to make Ann Coulter into anything “superior.”
    And in case you believe that a governmental position (like a U.S. Federal Court clerk) indicates supremacy, look no farther then Condi Rice (the Mushroom Cloud), Douglas Feith (the wide-aknowledged idiot) and Lesser Bush (the Decider hearing God’s voice).

    • Replies: @syonredux
  82. bossel says:
    @Tim Howells

    This is the age below which sexual relations are always considered illegal, which is the definition of the term. Wikipedia then lists the age of consent according to the laws of individual Mexican states, and overwhelmingly the age of consent is 12, but with a few exceptions.

    You forgot to mention the more important part in your link:
    “Age at which there are no restrictions
    (sex with persons below this age is not illegal per se, but it is still open to prosecution)”
    & that’s mostly 18, in some cases 16.

    Obviously there needs to be a certain area which takes into account biology, since teens in puberty have a developing sexuality. Eg. if a 16yo has sex with a 14yo, why should there be any prosecution? Unless for puritan freaks this shouldn’t be much of a problem.

  83. Rurik says:

    Mexico has many charms and many blights.

    When Mexicans come here, they mostly bring the blights and leave the charms.

    I like Mexicans. They’re hard workers and generally good folks, but by encouraging them to come here, our elites are creating strife. The political class thrives on strife. Mexicans are pawns in their schemes.

  84. Priss Factor [AKA "The Priss Factory"] says:

    Laws or no laws, the problem is Mexicans are not a very law-conscious people.

    Laws are only as good as the people who follow them.

    So, Mexican laws can state age of consent at 21.

    There are too many practiced cases where it is 12.

    Similarly in black areas and even ‘white trash’ areas in the US, laws don’t go very far.

    The only real law in Baltimore and Detroit is that of the jungle.

    In contrast, the laws of another society may be lax but there could be a lot of social discipline because people are mindful and conscientious.

  85. Biff says:
    @syonredux

    So we can agree that there are pedophiles and rapists everywhere?

    • Replies: @syonredux
  86. syonredux says:
    @Existential Confusion

    So, should Fred just pay for a written legal opinion and detailed accounting of Mexican rape laws, and then pay for a written, carefully explained rebuttal of a UNICEF opinion

    Well, seeing as how he doesn’t seem capable of doing that on his own, yeah

    – so that he can post those written documents here for your edification?

    More like demonstrate how UNICEF, Ann Coulter, etc, are completely wrong.Right now, Fred looks, at best, half-right, half-wrong.

    • Replies: @Existential Confusion
  87. LOL @ this whiteknighting for Mexico. Why are you living there anyway?

  88. syonredux says:
    @Biff

    So we can agree that there are pedophiles and rapists everywhere?

    Maybe more like some societies (e.g.,Mexico) seem to exhibit a higher level of tolerance for such individuals….

    • Replies: @Biff
  89. syonredux says:
    @annamaria

    She is not a conservative (and she is not a real woman).

    MMM, compared to, say,Bruce/ Caitlyn Jenner, she certainly seems like a real woman….

    • Replies: @jtgw
  90. jtgw says:
    @Tom_R

    “How can a girl under 18 even consent?”

    You do realize that the age of consent is 16 or 17 in many US states?

  91. Ron Unz says:

    Well, I’ve never read any of Coulter’s books and my knowledge of Mexican law is zero, but here’s my two cents…

    First, Fred has lived in Mexico for over a dozen years, is a highly credible individual, and seems to be citing perfectly credible official statutes and statements by experienced legal experts whom he personally knows. So I’d be very surprised if he’s mistaken. But UNICEF is also a highly credible international legal organization, and their claims, which some of the others linked in the thread, also seem unlikely to be wrong:

    http://www.unicef.org/rightsite/433_457.htm

    However, perhaps this puzzle is less than it seems. From Fred’s column, it sounds like “statutory rape” in Mexico is governed by state law, just as it is in the U.S. So it seems perfectly possible that while most Mexican states put the minimal “age of consent” at something like 15 or 16, perhaps one or two of the most rural or backward ones set it much lower, perhaps as low as 12. Under this possibility, both the UNICEF document and Fred’s sources might be entirely correct.

    Indeed, Syon quotes a 2013 CS Monitor article saying that Jalisco State “recently” raised its age of consent from 12 to 15, which underscores this situation. It’s even possible that the UNICEF authorities haven’t bothered updating the webpage in question:

    http://www.unz.com/freed/ann-coulter-and-the-manufacture-of-pedophilia/#comment-1036950

    However, here’s an important point to consider. American states *also* have the same wide variance in “age of consent” laws, with some of the ages in the more rural and backward states sometimes being unreasonably young. As someone pointed out upthread, the famous Rock & Roll singer Jerry Lee Lewis caused an international controversy during his music tour in Britain when the local authorities discovered his third wife (and first cousin) was only 13 years old at the time:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Lee_Lewis#Marriage_controversy

    A few moments of quick Googling led me to this legal website, which claims that under certain circumstances, the legal age of sexual consent is actually as young as 11 today in West Virginia.

    http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/west-virginia-age-of-consent-lawyers.html

    So perhaps the UNICEF document was entirely correct about Mexico (12 years) and Korea (13 years), but incorrectly listed the minimal age in the U.S. as 18, whereas it technically should have said 11…

  92. jtgw says:
    @syonredux

    LOL yeah I have no idea what annamarina meant by that remark.

    But otherwise I think she’s right. I have a very hard time taking an ideology seriously if its own supporters fail to live up to it.

    • Replies: @Sunbeam
  93. Svigor says:

    Fred is one of the smartest people I’ve ever known (including Cambridge). Ms. Coulter is fairly smart and a helluva self-promoter. But I haven’t been to Mexico so I have no first-hand knowledge of who’s right.

    I’d bet on Fred.

    Smart people tell more plausible lies. Says nothing about where their loyalties lie. Fred’s left quite a trail on that score.

  94. jtgw says:
    @Ron Unz

    A lot of these exceptionally low ages relate to legal age of marriage, which is a bit different from age of consent as we understand it generally, which refers to any intercourse whether inside or outside marriage.

    The correlation of low legal and customary age of marriage with rural and conservative societies is interesting. Also in the US it seems to be confined mostly to Appalachia, basically areas of high Scots-Irish settlement. I remember reading that since the 18th century the Scots-Irish scandalized other Americans with their strange morals, including very frequent sex and pregnancy out of wedlock.

  95. Sunbeam says:
    @Ron Unz

    I’m not sure that link really backs you up on West Virginia:

    “Like most other states, West Virginia has provisions which allow minors below the age of consent to engage in sexual conduct with partners who are close to the same age. A person aged 11 can consent to sex with anyone aged under 14. Minors 12 or older can consent to sex with a person who is no more than 4 years older.

    In West Virginia, if a person who is older than 14 has sex with a person aged 11 or under, he or she can be punished by 15 to 35 years in prison. If a person aged 16 or older has sex with someone under 16, and is more than 4 years older than the victim, the offender could face 1 to 5 years in prison.
    – See more at: http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/west-virginia-age-of-consent-lawyers.html#sthash.HRC08ruV.dpuf”

    Law is very far down my list of reading material. But I think this age of consent thing only applies to people fairly close to their own age. Not that I really care about this kind of thing (besides thinking kids having sex is a dumb idea), but I have to wonder exactly how they came up with all this 11/under 14, 12/no more than 4 years older. Is there some kind of … something this comes out of? Or did they pull things out of their butt?

    • Replies: @jtgw
  96. Sunbeam says:
    @jtgw

    You really don’t know? I know that DailyKos and I think DemocraticUnderground used to call her “Man” Coulter. Something about her having or not having an Adam’s Apple.

    I don’t even have gaydar, so I can’t be expected to keep up with this one. Still I did see a really funny photoshop there once, with her face swapped on to some hillbilly with a shotgun.

    Personally I have no feelings about Ann Coulter for good or ill. At least she isn’t as obnoxiously smarmy as Bill Maher.

    • Replies: @jtgw
  97. jtgw says:
    @Sunbeam

    I love how the left drops all their principles when it comes to scoring points against enemies. Talk about transphobic, not to mention sexist, to imply that Coulter is not entitled, as a woman, to an inordinately large Adam’s apple!

    Both the loony left and the raving right and all their hypocrisies can go to hell.

  98. Svigor says:

    Yes, let’s do trust the Mexicans, and only the Mexicans, as to whether or not they’re douche bags by our standards.

    Yeah, I feel really busted up over this slight to Mexico.

    That was the first thing that popped into my head after reading Fred’s post. Oh, Heavens to Betsy no, no, anything but a false but politically useful talking point about Majico!!!

    Yeah, I feel really busted up over this slight to Mexico. Hey Fred, I got an idea, if you want to mitigate all of this bad press on Mexico, if you want me, a US citizen, to think of your adopted country as anything other than a centuries old amalgam of uneducated masses being led by an oligarchy of rich land owners/Bandidos, then do something about the trash flowing thru your country and into ours.

    So well said.

    Most readers here would be shocked to learn they support most views of Senator Bernie Sanders

    They would indeed. Because they don’t.

    Anyway, people who think they are superior to another people, are the ones who commit maximum evil on this Earth.

    Nah. I’m an arrogant bastard, and that ties in closely with my sense of morality; I see myself as above doing dirt. I don’t know how the arrogance vs. morality thing breaks down at the statistical level, but it’s clearly not as simple as you state.

    People holding coming out parties for their daughters are not generally declaring them fair game for older men. (Maybe some are.) Rich Americans have debutante parties for their daughters. The age at which the parties are held differs by about three years between the two cultures.

    18 differs from 15 by three. 15 also differs from 12 by three, by the by.

    Sri Lanka
    Thailand
    Brazil
    United States
    Canada

    Mexico doesn’t make the list.

    Lol. We shall punish these countries for their honesty and scrupulous record-keeping!

    Ann Coulter is indeed quite famous as a defender of “values.” However, there are some issues…

    And Mexico’s full of scumbags. What’s your point?

    So we can agree that there are pedophiles and rapists everywhere?

    Yes, we can agree that there are a lot more pedophiles in mestizoid populations, a lot more rape in black populations, etc.

    • Replies: @Biff
  99. syonredux says:
    @Ron Unz

    So it seems perfectly possible that while most Mexican states put the minimal “age of consent” at something like 15 or 16, perhaps one or two of the most rural or backward ones set it much lower, perhaps as low as 12.

    I’m going to assume that Mexico City doesn’t count as backward.According to WIKIPEDIA (Customary caveats), here’s how age of consent reads there:

    The age of consent in the Federal District (Mexico City) is 12, one of the lowest in the world, and the overall criminal legislation of Mexico’s capital is close to that of the federal law regarding this subject, although tougher in some aspects – higher penalties and broader definitions.

    According to the Estatuto del Gobierno del Distrito Federal (PDF)(in Spanish) (Government Statute of the Federal District), Article 42, Clause XII, the District’s Legislative Assembly has powers to legislate in criminal law.

    Article 175 of the Federal District Criminal Code refers to the previous Article 174, which stipulates a term of 6 to 17 years of prison for the rape of adults, while defining copulation as “the introduction of the penis in the human body through the vagina, anus or mouth”. Article 175 (violación) then states that: “It is equivalent to rape and will be punished with the same penalty: (1st Clause) – who performs a copulation with a person under 12 years of age or with a person that has no capacity of understanding the meaning of the act or that for any reason cannot resist”; The 2nd Clause defines as committing the same crime whoever “introduces in the vagina or anus any element, instrument or any part of the human body different from the penis”, in relation to these same persons.

    Article 177 covers “sexual abuse” and punishes other acts referred as “unintentional” acts –“who without purpose of reaching copulation, performs a sexual act with a person under 12 or a person that has no capacity of understanding the meaning of the act or that for any reason cannot resist it, or that demands that such act is observed or performed, will be punished with 2 to 7 years in prison”.

    In both Articles (175 and 177), there is an extra half term in case of physical or moral violence. And according to Article 178, there is also a punishment of an extra two thirds of the term under the same circumstances foreseen in Article 266 Bis of the Federal Law (see above), added by two new circumstances – (clause V) when the victim is inside a private vehicle or a public service vehicle; and (clause VI) when the crime is committed in a desert or isolated place.

    There is a crime called estupro stipulated in Article 180, which refers to consented sex with adolescents aged 12 to 18, when consent is obtained through any means of deceit. The penalty is 6 months to 4 years of prison. This crime needs a complaint (querella) to be prosecuted.

    There is a Corruption of Minors statute (Article 184) that can be used to punish by imprisonment, for seven to twelve years, adults who engage in sexual relations with persons under eighteen. This situation exists all over Mexico, and can be prosecuted upon complaint of victim or the victim’s family.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_North_America#Mexico

    From WIKIPEDIA, age of consent by state in Mexico:

    [MORE]

    State Minimum age of consent
    (sex with persons under this age is always illegal)
    Age at which there are no restrictions

    (sex with persons below this age is not illegal per se, but it is still open to prosecution) “Violación
    equiparada” “Estupro”
    Aguascalientes 12 16
    Baja California 14 18
    Baja California Sur 12 18
    Campeche 12 18
    Chiapas 12 18
    Chihuahua 14 18
    Coahuila 12 16
    Colima 14 18
    Distrito Federal 12 18
    Durango 14 18
    Guanajuato 12 16
    Guerrero 12 18
    Hidalgo 12 18
    Jalisco 12 18
    México 15 18
    Michoacán 12 16
    Morelos 12 18
    Nayarit Puberty 18
    Nuevo León 14 18
    Oaxaca 12 18
    Puebla 12 18
    Querétaro 12 18
    Quintana Roo 12 18
    San Luis Potosí 12 16
    Sinaloa 12 18
    Sonora 12 18
    Tabasco 12 17
    Tamaulipas 12 18

    Tlaxcala 14
    Veracruz 14 16
    Yucatán 13 16
    Zacatecas 13 18

    • Replies: @syonredux
    , @syonredux
  100. jtgw says:
    @Sunbeam

    I suppose the idea is that kids having sex with each other shouldn’t be punished by the state but should be dealt with by the kids’ families, but the state does have an obligation to protect children from predation by adults. It makes sense to me, to be honest.

  101. Biff says:
    @syonredux

    Maybe more like some societies (e.g.,Mexico) seem to exhibit a higher level of tolerance for such individuals….

    Well this is what I know regarding the topic of pedophiles. My wife is from Thailand(of Chinese decent-her family is rather wealthy and well connected), and we spend two months every two years there. My first trip there was in 1990, so I know the place rather well. I’m also American so I know this place rather well.

    Thai laws have changed considerably over the last 35 years in regards to over and under aged prostitution. If one is caught in an act of pedophillia in either country listed they would be much be better off in United States rather than Thailand when it comes to level of punishment(unless one is a masochist). The Crime has become severely harsh in Thailand over the years in contrast to the U.S. where ‘sex crime registry’ has become the rage, but prison sentences have remained the same.

    There was a recent incident in the news a few years back you may or may not heard of. A man was caught and charged with pedophilla in Thailand and was put in the dock. He then admits to U.S. authorities that he is responsible for the Murder of Jon Bonet Ramsey of Boulder Colorado. (A high profile case, and I happen to live in Colorado so it all caught my attention). The Feds step in and extradite the guy back to the States(first class) where he is cleared for the murder, but faced the lesser charge, and punishment for pedophillia. My guess is he admitted to the murder to get out of the harsher punishment he would have received in Thailand.

    So you are correct in saying that some societies (e.g., the United States) seem to exhibit a higher level of tolerance for such individuals

    • Replies: @syonredux
    , @syonredux
  102. “Maybe more like some societies (e.g.,Mexico) seem to exhibit a higher level of tolerance for such individuals….”

    Beloved writer Marion Zimmer Bradley, Walter Breen and Robert Heinlein’s tolerance for his pedophilia friends…

    I was born into a family of famous gay pagan authors in the late Sixties. My mother was Marion Zimmer Bradley, and my father was Walter Breen. Between them, they wrote over 100 books: my mother wrote science fiction and fantasy (Mists of Avalon), and my father wrote books on numismatics: he was a coin expert.

    [MORE]

    What they did to me is a matter of unfortunate public record: suffice to say that both parents wanted me to be gay and were horrifed at my being female. My mother molested me from ages 3-12. The first time I remember my father doing anything especially violent to me I was five. Yes he raped me. I don’t like to think about it. If you want to know about his shenanigans with little girls, and you have a very strong stomach, you can google the Breendoggle, which was the scandal which ALMOST drummed him out of science fiction fandom.

    More profoundly, though was his disgust with my gender, despite his many relationships with women and female victims. He told me unequivocally that no man would ever want me, because all men are secretly gay and have simply not come to terms with their natural homosexuality. So I learned to act mannish and walk with very still hips. You can still see the traces of my conditioning to reject my femininity in my absolute refusal to give in and my outspokenness, and my choice of theatrical director for much of my life. But a good part of my outspokenness is my refusal to accept the notion that “deep down I must be a boy born in a girl’s body.” I am not. I am a girl reviled for being a girl, who tried very hard to be the “boy” they wanted.

    Suffice to say I was not their only victim of either gender. I grew up watching my father have “romances” (in his imagination) with boys who were a source of frustration because they always wanted food and money as a result of the sex they were subjected to, and didn’t want HIM. (OF COURSE!) I started trying hard to leave home when I was ten, after the failure of my first suicide attempt, and to intervene when I was 13 by telling my mother and her female companion that my father was sleeping with this boy. Instead of calling the cops, like any sensible human being, they simply moved my father into their apartment, which I called “The Love Nest” and they moved back into our family home.

    Naturally that made things much worse. I had already been couch-surfing at the home of my directors from the Renaissance Faire for some time, but nobody could take me all the time. As might be imagined, where my father was, there were teenaged boys, drugs, and not a whole lot of food, though I wasn’t really starved in my teens once my mother’s books began to sell really well. I lived all kinds of places as a teen, though I moved back in with my father when I started college.

    One day he brought an eleven year old boy to stay with us for a week, with his mother’s permission, which horrified me. I made sure he had a room and bedding. When I saw my father holding him upside down kissing him all over, and saw the porn books out, I called my counselor who had already agreed to call the cops if I ever saw anything happen, and my father was arrested. For that offense, he was given three years of probation. However, word got around, and a man who had given him a place to stay in Los Angeles realized his son was of the age to be a target, and asked questions, which resulted in my father’s conviction on 13 counts of PC 288 A, B, C, and D. (Suffice to say that these are varying kinds of forcible sexual offenses that should never be committed on anyone, let alone a child!)

    He died in prison in 1993, after my initial report in 1989. It should be noted that far from being a first offender, his first arrest had been in 1948, when he was 18.

    As might be imagined, although my mother was perfectly well aware of my father’s crimes, and so was my “stepmother,” I was disbelieved almost up to the moment of his conviction, and discounted as “hysterical.” Again, much of that is in the public record: my mother’s cold indifference and my stepmother’s pretense of complete lack of responsibility is sickening in and of itself. Her words ought to suffice. She knew what he wanted to do.

    At no time did I try to get justice for myself, because in my moral structure I was the protector of others and I loved my father very much. So although I thought I could forgive my father for what he did to me, in no way did I think it was my place to forgive him for what he did to someone else, and his latest victim was not a hooker, but an innocent child who was very badly hurt.

    In any case, where my family had closed ranks around my father to protect him, more recently they’ve closed ranks around my nameless male relative, who stands accused of molesting his ex-boy-lover’s kids, whom he thinks of as his “grandchildren” as he “adopted” his boy-lover as his “son.” Yes I know, that is so sickening it is hard to read, and I am very sorry. Once more I am marginalized, called “crazy” and “hysterical” because after all, why would someone with a long history of molesting teenaged boys keep doing it? So as I did when I turned my father in, I’ve moved away. I made a police report, as did my students, who were horrified by what he said about his “grandkids.”

    Now it should be noted that boy lovers do not think of what they are doing as “molestation.” To them it is sex, they imagine it is consensual, and any objections will certainly be overridden by the orgasms they are certain they can produce, and it is the shame of these orgasms that silences the boy-victims, and persuades them they “must” be gay. (Regardless of subsequent heterosexual marriages and children.)

    Apparently, 33 reports against my nameless male relative for pedophilia were not enough, and he’ll skate on all this. Not my circus: not my monkeys. I did what I could, and I am easy to find, if ever I am needed to testify. Pardon my fatalism, but serial sexual offenders don’t stop, and there is likely to be another victim. Either someone will come forward, or he’ll offend again, or perhaps, being that he is older, he’ll pass on before he ever has any consequences.

    Between the time of my reports of father’s offense and my nameless male relative’s, I went and got a Bachelor of Music Performance, and had a career as a wedding harpist and singer, then I married and had children, then I got a Master of Music Performance, and since 2007 I have mainly taught voice and harp and directed operas with two opera companies I founded: one in Southern CA and one in Northern CA. I also made an album of Celtic music. Yet I’ve always been dissatisfied with my career: artists need to tell their story, and mine was rather too ugly to be told.

    Yes, I stupidly returned to Northern CA. My beloved cousin’s wife was dying of cancer and I wanted to be part of a family, hoping that since my father was dead his evil might have died with him. I was wrong.

    Last June, (2014) a blogger named Deirdre Saoirse Moen asked me if there was any truth to the rumors about my parents, and I told her yes, that both of them had molested me and my brother as well as a HOST of other children, and I sent her two poems that I had written about that, never having breathed a word about what they had done to me in public before.

    She printed my emails and poems on her blog, which promptly went to 92 countries around the world, to my utter shock. I was flooded with letters from survivors of sexual abuse, all of which I tried to answer promptly with sympathy and warmth, (which knocked me out, emotionally, in a way I can barely describe!) Everyone who wanted to send money, I asked them to send it to RAINN (Rape Abuse Incest National Network) and there were even anthology authors associated with my mother who turned over every cent of their royalties from her to charity. Other people burned their copies of her books, because they couldn’t stand to sell them and make any money off her evil. Still other people deleted her works from their Kindles and iPads.

    The reason I have given, and stand by for not talking is this: I know many people found value in my mother’s books, and I did not want to harm them or disturb their lives. Thus my shock and embarrassment at how far this story went. Ironically, the survivors who benefited from her books have found more strength in standing against abuse than with her, and my admiration for them is ongoing!

    Naturally, there was a lot of debate about her and my father. Every time someone tried to doubt my story, a hundred people would shout them down. The age-of-consent creeps came out and were also shouted down. I was, to my shock, believed. After watching what had happened to Woody Allen’s daughter, I had no expectation of anything other than a virtual public execution were I so stupid as to speak out, but in a way, my mother “protected” me with her OWN WORDS. She had testified, blandly, when accused of molesting me, that “children don’t have erogenous zones” and didn’t bother denying tying me to a chair and attacking me with a pair of pliers, claiming she was going to pull out my teeth. With her cold admissions, nobody could put much of ANYTHING past her.

    In any event, since the truth came out, the pedophilic themes in her books became very obvious to people who had previously chalked them up to history or the license granted to an author of fiction. My father had written, with her editorial assistance, a book of apologetics for sex between adults and children called “Greek Love” under the pseudonym “J.Z. Eglinton.” All of a sudden, nobody could have any question about what had been so obvious to me all along.

    So what has changed since last June? Since my (and others) report of my nameless male relative back in November and my decision to go No Contact with my family due to their response, it began to dawn on me that maybe the gayness WAS an issue. Naturally, I had been brought up to be completely tolerant. Years ago I read Satinover, who believed that gays were largely “pansexual” that is, preferring sex with EVERYONE of EVERY age and EVERY gender rather than wanting to be limited to one person, and he regarded it, credibly, as a moral and ethical problem, rather than a sexual “orientation.” I can’t tell you how many lesbians I know who simply hate men, or who have been raped and can’t face sex with men because of that. For me, my research about homosexuality was almost a guilty secret: me thinking the unthinkable. After all, gayness had always been presented to me as the natural state: I was “hung up” and a “prude” because despite my mother’s pleading with me to “try it the other way” and “how could I possibly know I was straight?” I just couldn’t hack being gay myself.

    My observation of my father and mother’s actual belief is this: since everyone is naturally gay, it is the straight establishment that makes everyone hung up and therefore limited. Sex early will make people willing to have sex with everyone, which will bring about the utopia while eliminating homophobia and helping people become “who they really are.” It will also destroy the hated nuclear family with its paternalism, sexism, ageism (yes, for pedophiles, that is a thing) and all other “isms.” If enough children are sexualized young enough, gayness will suddenly be “normal” and accepted by everyone, and the old fashioned notions about fidelity will vanish. As sex is integrated as a natural part of every single relationship, the barriers between people will vanish, and the utopia will appear, as “straight culture” goes the way of the dinosaur. As my mother used to say: “Children are brainwashed into believing they don’t want sex.”

    I know, I know. The stupidity of that particular thesis is boundless, and the actual consequence is forty-year-olds in therapy for sexual abuse, many, many suicides, and ruined lives for just about EVERYONE. But someone needed to say it. Will anyone hear it? There were six Johnny Does at my father’s trial, who would not testify, and two victims, who did. One of the victims I am in touch with. He was silenced so fiercely by fans of my mother years ago that he is not able to talk about it to this day. I don’t know the fate of all the Johnny Does, but I do know one of them is dead in his forties from an eating disorder, never having been able to talk about what happened, and I know at least one of the people on the list of 22 names I gave the cops as a potential abuse victim died from suicide last year. I also know a number of victims of my father who would not testify because they love him. As a personal note, I can understand why: of my parents, he was by far the kinder one. After all, he was only a serial rapist. My mother was an icy, violent monster whose voice twisted up my stomach.

    A very brief note on my “stepmother:” she now denies ever having been gay, after 22 years with my mother, and she has married a man. So what was was she “born”? Was she born gay, and is now living in “denial” of her “true nature” as the gays would have it, or was she besotted in a childish way with my mother, who did what celebrities do, and took advantage of her innocence and emotional infantility? She was 26 when she got involved with my mother, and told me later she felt she had been “molested” by my mother. I can’t use that word for her: she was 26. But she DID call my mother “mommy” and most of the emotional content of their relationship was an attempt to prove that she was a “better daughter” than I was: a competition that for me, was over before it began. I am my mother’s daughter. It is a biological reality. Giving my mother orgasms does not make my stepmother a better daughter, simply a fool. And as it can be noted now, she MUST be the “better daughter” because I blew the whistle. I don’t speak to her.

    This March I met Katy Faust online: one of the six children of gays who filed an amicus brief with the Supreme Court opposing gay marriage. We corresponded, and I left CA. I am still reeling from the death of my last bits of denial. It IS the homosexuality that is the problem. It IS the belief that all sex all the time will somehow cure problems instead of creating them that is the problem.

    So I have begun to speak out against gay marriage, and in doing so, I have alienated most of even my strongest supporters. After all, they need to see my parents as wacky sex criminals, not as homosexuals following their deeply held ethical positions and trying to create a utopia according to a rather silly fantasy. They do not have the willingness to accept the possibility that homosexuality might actually have the result of destroying children and even destroying the adults who insist on remaining in its thrall.

    Now for all well-meaning people who believe I am extrapolating from my experience to the wider gay community, I would like to explain why I believe this is so: From my experience in the gay community, the values in that community are very different: the assumption is that EVERYONE is gay and closeted, and early sexual experience will prevent gay children from being closeted, and that will make everyone happy.

    If you doubt me, research “age of consent” “Twinks,” “ageism” and the writings of the NUMEROUS authors on the Left who believe that early sexuality is somehow “beneficial” for children.

    Due to my long experience with the BSDM community (bondage/discipline, Sado-Masochism) it is my belief that homosexuality is a matter of IMPRINTING, in the same way that BDSM fantasies are. To the BDSM’er, continued practice of the fantasy is sexually exciting. To the gay person, naturally, the same. However, from what I have seen, neither one creates healing. My mother became a lesbian because she was raped by her father. My father was molested by a priest–and regarded it as being the only love he had ever experienced. There are a vanishingly few people who are exclusively gay, but far more who have relationships with people of BOTH genders, as my parents and other relatives did.

    What sets gay culture apart from straight culture is the belief that early sex is good and beneficial, and the sure knowledge (don’t think for a second that they DON’T know) that the only way to produce another homosexual is to provide a boy with sexual experiences BEFORE he can be “ruined” by attraction to a girl.

    If you’re OK with that, and you might not be, it is worth your consideration. If you think I am wrong, that is your privilege, but watch out for the VAST number of stories of sexual abuse AND transgenderism that will come about from these gay “marriages.” Already the statistics for sexual abuse of children of gays are astronomically high compared to that suffered by the children of straights.

    Naturally my perspective is very uncomfortable to the liberal people I was raised with: I am “allowed” to be a victim of molestation by both parents, and “allowed” to be a victim of rather hideous violence. I am, incredibly, NOT ALLOWED to blame their homosexuality for their absolute willingness to accept all sex at all times between all people.

    But that is not going to slow me down one bit. I am going to keep right on speaking out. I have been silent for entirely too long. Gay “marriage” is nothing but a way to make children over in the image of their “parents” and in ten to thirty years, the survivors will speak out.

    In the meantime, I will.

    Moira Greyland

    • Replies: @syonredux
    , @Sunbeam
  103. syonredux says:
    @syonredux

    And I’ve said this before, but I’ll say it again.If Fred really wants to refute Ann Coulter, he needs to provide something fairly systematic and in-depth.

  104. Biff says:
    @Svigor

    Yes, we can agree that there are a lot more pedophiles in mestizoid populations, a lot more rape in black populations, etc.

    No I do not agree with that statement unless you have some honest data to back that up.

  105. @Ron Unz

    I must say I am dismayed by the abysmal level of fact checking and argumentation both in the original article and in that defense. I’m a fan of this website, but political correctness seems to be raising its ugly head here. The age of consent is a clearly defined concept and the legal definitions in different jurisdictions can be easily checked. I’d love to see your source for the USA setting the age of consent at 11 years old. If that was a joke I didn’t get it.

  106. WhatEvvs [AKA "AamirKhanFan"] says:
    @Tim Howells

    It is BS. The whole notion of age of consent means that below it, by definition you do not comprehend what you are doing. In other words, a 14 year old cannot give consent. A 14-year old can proposition someone of age, and if discovered, it is no defense to say, “she (or he) asked me.”

    So, Coulter is wrong about the 12 year old stuff, right about 15 and up.

    • Replies: @Tim Howells
  107. Asher says:

    Once a female has entered menarche it’s not pedophilia. Gross? Yeah, but not pedophilia.

    I remember waiting for a bus in grad school (mebbe 26) and looking up the street, seeing a very hot woman a few hundred feet away. As she got closer something seemed wrong, as she was surrounded by a handful of gangly junior high boys. Up close she was obviously fourteen, yet, still all woman, and I have no shame in finding her intensely attractive.

    Oh, yeah, she was also wearing daisy dukes and a t-shirt reading “future porn star”.

    Nope, not embarrassed in the least.

    • Replies: @Jus' Sayin'...
    , @jtgw
  108. What Fred wrote here was totally reasonable. The fact is, Coulter has had a long history of distortion and poor research, something Al Franken exploited in his book “Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them.” (http://ethosworld.com/library/Franken-Lies-And-the-Lying-Liars-Who-Tell-Them.pdf). In one of her previous books, Coulter takes the New York Times to task for not covering NASCAR driver Dale Earnhardt’s death. Apparently, this was to show how the elite liberals at the times didn’t care about ordinary “flyover” country. Franken then produced a picture in his book showing the NYT covered the story on the front page. He goes on to similarly destroy many of her other claims. If Coulter has improved her research skills at all, it is only because she was humiliated so badly by that book.

    Ann Coulter, Canada, and Vietnam

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmcZG87Fmxc

    Coulter has also had a long history as a name-caller. A few years after 9/11, there was some outrage at Coulter for comparing the 9/11 surviving families to “harpies.” Do you people really believe you win any converts with this type of stuff? Coulter is more troll than savior, something her brainwashed fans can’t accept. Hence, the invective directed at the author for daring to point out something others have already pointed out about Ann Coulter: she makes stuff up. She’s changed no one’s opinion with her books, guaranteed….and she never will. But then again, she has sold a lot of books with her antics, which was really her goal.

    The Republican Party and Conservatism in general has been distilled down to a thick broth of crazy, as evidenced by this year’s upcoming republican primary race. All the rational thinkers and moderates have either left the party in disgust or been evicted. The only thing left now are fanatics who will be left wondering why they can no longer win any presidential elections: “did we not support Middle Eastern Wars enough? Did we not cut taxes enough for the rich or propose a flat tax for the 1%? Did we not get the people worked up over things they consider tangential to their lives? Did our republican governors not cut the comparative pittance we spend on food stamps while lecturing the public about fiscal responsibility – which certainly didn’t apply to Iraq where we wasted trillions of dollars. And we signed historic free trade deals for our corporate contributors; the market will adjust to all those lost jobs. I just don’t understand this. Our candidates told them what they wanted to hear on immigration, so I don’t get this. We did so well in fundraising. Ann Coulter sold so many books.”

    Reading some of the comments on this thread makes it all the more clear to me that the Republican Party is finished in the long run:

    “Geez, this is tough one, do I believe the documented research of a Connecticut-bred, Ivy League-educated, NYT-bestselling author, and former law review editor and U.S. Federal Court clerk…Or the anecdotal evidence from the uneducated guy from West Virginia who wrote the non-bestseller A Brass Pole in Bangkok: A Thing I Aspire to Be?”

    My, what a big Ivy League degree you’ve got there, Ann.
    Yes, the better to take advantage of you with.
    My, what huge book sales you have, Ann.
    Yes, and I didn’t even put Dale Earnhardt on the front page.
    My, what wonderful research you’ve done there, Ann.
    Yes, Google is great.

    “Fred Reed uses anecdotes in his ex-pat community filtered through his diminished perceptions.”

    He also quoted Mexican law and spoke to Mexican lawyers.

    “Age of youngest birthmother.”

    We’ve got an Ann Coulter Researcher of the Year Award winner.

    You manipulated your data to get the result you wanted. You purposely quoted the ‘age 10’ group because there were some Mexicans there, then you manipulated the dates that you reported in order to make Mexico look even worse than it is – you quoted more modern dates on the top and bottom of your list while including ancient dates in between to inflate your list.

    Youngest Birth Mother, Age 10

    1998 USA
    1953 USA
    1958 USA
    1969 USA
    1971 USA
    1979 USA
    1982 USA
    1984 USA
    2006 USA

    ….get it?

    “A review of criminal laws in all 31 states showed that many required that if, for example, a 12-year-old girl accused an adult of statutory rape, she had first to prove she was “chaste and pure.”

    Oral sex is illegal in Arkansas. One-armed piano players must play for free in Iowa. It is illegal for unmarried couples to live together in Florida. Those are all laws on the books. They aren’t enforced, of course. So, you’re going to have to do a lot more than just quote the law in Mexico to convince me that the Mexican government is really forcing rape victims to prove their chastity.

    “I suspect Ann hit a sore spot. Fred married a much younger Mexican woman….”

    Fred shouldn’t be upset if that is the case. At least he got to her before Coulter did.

    “This interloping gringo is an expert because he spent a little over a decade in Mexico.”

    And all he had to do was spend a mere afternoon reading one of Ann Coulter’s books…..

    “With the stats that the commenters have come up with, your assertion that Coulter is being derelict or deliberately obtuse has been proven false. You could be right about the law, and she wrong, but one can certainly find legitimate sources to support her case. So your accusations were out of line.”

    Most of the stats I’ve seen here do no such thing. Most are either deliberately taken out of context or lacked any context to begin with.

    “Provide four or five recent cases where a grown man seduced a mentally and physically healthy 12, 13, or 14-year-old and was dealt with strictly and you will have won the point about the law.”

    The burden of proof is on the accuser in most circumstances. Coulter started this, so it’s actually up to her and her fan boys to provide the evidence. All they’ve done so far is quote laws they don’t understand.

    “Otherwise, all you have is your interpretation of Mexican Law (you are not a lawyer) vs. UNICEF’s interpretation of the law (they are *many* lawyers.)”

    1. Ann Coulter is NOT a Mexican lawyer. She is no more qualified to speak on the subject than you or me.
    2. UNICEF is primarily American run. Their last 3 directors have all been American. UNICEF’s current director is a former US national security adviser. The previous executive director was the US Secretary of Agriculture.
    3. UNICEF does not have a Mexican National Committee. Therefore, there aren’t that *many* qualified UNICEF experts on Mexican jurisprudence.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_UNICEF_National_Committees

    Hmm, trust Mexican lawyers about their own country or trust a non-Mexican bureaucratic NGO run by non-Mexicans who know little about Mexican law? That’s a tough one.

    “Our frail Reed responds with a high school debating trick; citing Mexican law regarding rape, which is totally irrelevant to what Coulter wrote and misleading in the extreme. “

    Yeah, don’t cite the facts. Just take Ann Coulter’s word for it. Law, shmaw.

  109. Hacienda says:
    @Ron Unz

    UNICEF is a credible organization, but it doesn’t mean all that’s written on all its website documents are accurate.

    Korean age of consent is 13 only under very limited circumstances. 13 being a holdover from Japan’s occupation.

    A 2011 law updated the understanding of age of consent and it’s much more accurate to say
    19 is the age of consent. Consent is understood to operate under power-relations- age, economic, standing, education, physical power, even social power. So a 15 year old high schooler can’t really be giving consent to a 20 year old who is also happens to have a PhD, a millionaire, and is 3x stronger. Much of this is judge’s discretion- what actually constitutes consent, but the judge is supposed to weigh all the important measures of “wi-ryeok” translated roughly as greater power in determining the punishment and a guilt of the accused.

    The UNICEF article turns out to be almost entirely incorrect on this number wrt Korea, at least.

  110. @WhatEvvs

    The concept of the age of consent is very simple. Under any circumstances having sex with anyone under that age is illegal. It is clearly spelled out in Mexican law that the threshold is 12 years old. In most Mexican states the local law also states the same. In a few the age is slightly higher etc. In the US the age varies by state between 16 and 18.

    This is only at all complicated because people are furious that Ann Coulter broke the unwritten law that under no circumstances in any way are white people entitled to their own countries.

  111. S says:

    This reminds me of your Bergdahl piece.

  112. Curious says:

    Tell us, Fred, what are the legal penalties for illegally immigrating into Mexico? I suspect Jeb Bush would be your pick as prez. You have so much in common with him.

  113. syonredux says:
    @Biff

    Well this is what I know regarding the topic of pedophiles. My wife is from Thailand(of Chinese decent-her family is rather wealthy and well connected),

    Elaborately pointless.This is the internet; you could be a homeless Mestizo drifter for all I know…

    and we spend two months every two years there. My first trip there was in 1990, so I know the place rather well. I’m also American so I know this place rather well.

    Why anyone would want to spend two months of every year in Thailand is beyond me.

    So you are correct in saying that some societies (e.g., the United States) seem to exhibit a higher level of tolerance for such individuals

    Cart before horse, dear fellow.The increase in the severity of the penalties in Thailand reflects the fact that they are attempting to stamp out practices that are deeply ingrained in that society.

    • Replies: @Biff
  114. Priss Factor [AKA "The Priss Factory"] says:

    Mexico has tons of problems — so do parts of the US — , but Anne Coulter surely sensationalized the worst parts of Mexico to make it seem like the whole country is one big hellhole.

    But there are many good parts of Mexico. And there are poorer parts where people are nice and decent, much better than ghastly Negroes in the US.

    Compared to Detroit and parts of Baltimore, much of Mexico is like the First World.

    But Fred Fred Cabbage-head certainly understates the extent of Mexico’s problems.
    Too many Mexicans are like the messy fellas in THE WILD BUNCH and TREASURE OF SIERRA MADRE.

    But I think we are missing the REAL issue of this controversy.

    It is Ann Coulter trashed Mexicans because they are an easy target. Even with La Raza and all, it is still perfectly okay to bash Mexico and say all sorts of things one would never say about blacks, Jews, and homos(who have utterly disgraced and degraded American culture).

    To be fair, Coulter has written articles and books about black crime, but then, it has always been in the mode of ‘liberals are bigger racists’ and ‘blacks will be wonderful IF they sign onto conservatism’. Right, when donkeys fly.

    Coulter never ever mentions Jews. She wrote a book on communist infiltration of US, but she overlooked the role Jews played in it. And Jews were instrumental in anti-communist hysteria that followed the 60s. She never mentions Jews control the media and academia.

    She never mentions that Jews have been at the center of porn culture, junk pop culture, turning-girls-into-sluts culture, interracist cult, vilification of white males, attack on the American South, promotion of homo agenda, and etc. She blamed Ted Kennedy for the immigration policy but never mentions Jews.

    And speaking of victims of violence, Mexicans killing Americans is nothing compared to Americans killing Arabs, Muslims, and etc. in the Middle East in Neo-con-led wars.
    And where is Coulter on what massive immigration of Jews did to Palestine and what is being done to Palestinians? When US invaded Iraq, Coulter was waving the US and Zionist flag.

    Anyway, using her logic, IF US should ban Mexicans because Mexico is a mess, then US should really really ban black Africans because black Africa is super-duper mess.
    To be fair to Coulter, she is opposed to legal immigration and has spoken about problems of all kinds of immigrants. But she especially attacks Mexicans because Mexers are a permissible target in American political discourse.

    Because of American ‘cult of guilt’ about black slavery, white worship of black athletes/rappers, and white fear of black rage, there is far less anti-black rhetoric in the US.
    To be fair to Coulter, most of the immigrants, legal and illegal, have been from the South of the border in the past several decades.
    But even that has been tied to the black problem. It is because blacks cause so much trouble that whites need browns and yellows as buffers and preferred labor force(Mexers for washing dishes, Chinese/Hindus for coding computers).

    I believe even Mexican immigration problem is less dangerous in the long term than the Negro African immigration problem.
    It is possible for Mexico to become a reasonably sane and modern nation, and then birthrates will go down(as it has in the past decade). Also, Mexers, problematic as they are in parts of America, are mostly a functional people if not the best functional people. Negroes… they be crazy.

    Africa is booming in population, and they are spreading out all over. Negroes are built like gorillas and have wild sex and have too many kids in both Africa and the West(often with white women whose wombs turn race-traitor).
    300,000 Negroes brought as slaves to America multiplied to over 40 million.
    There been more than 1 million Negro immigrants. In yrs to come, they may multiply to 50 million. Negroes be dangerous.

    So, instead of Adios America, we need a book called Uga-buga America.

    Negroes will be the real destroyers of America.

    But even white conservatives feel this ‘white guilt’ and white fear thing about blacks and don’t want to make too big a fuss about Negroes, therefore much of their rage is turned toward Mexicans.

    But even 40 million Guillermos are less dangerous than 1 million Michael Browns.

  115. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Uh, this just in, Fred:

    15 year-old Latino rapes and murders 8 year-old white girl

    The source said the boy lured Madyson to his third-floor apartment at the Tannery Arts Center at 1050 River St. on Sunday afternoon with promises of ice cream, then subdued her from behind, sexually assaulted her and strangled her before dumping her body in a recycling bin in a first-floor garage of the complex.

    http://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/Teen-charged-as-adult-in-Santa-Cruz-girl-s-6412761.php?cmpid=twitter-desktop

  116. syonredux says:
    @Divine Right

    Hmm, trust Mexican lawyers about their own country or trust a non-Mexican bureaucratic NGO run by non-Mexicans who know little about Mexican law? That’s a tough one.

    That’s the problem, though.Fred hasn’t provided us with the opinions of “Mexican lawyers.” He’s just told us that he has talked to some nameless people.Indeed, he hasn’t even bothered to give us quotes from these people.He’s just transmitted to us vague accounts of what they have said.

    Personally, I would be quite interested to read an in-depth analysis of Mexican law on this matter.From what I’ve seen, I suspect that the truth on the ground lies somewhere in between Fred and Ann Coulter’s accounts.

  117. syonredux says:
    @Sojourner Truth

    “Maybe more like some societies (e.g.,Mexico) seem to exhibit a higher level of tolerance for such individuals….”

    Beloved writer Marion Zimmer Bradley, Walter Breen and Robert Heinlein’s tolerance for his pedophilia friends…

    Individual examples vs social acceptance.

    Contrast those three individuals with, say, Afghanistan:

    Bacha bāzī (Persian: بچه بازی‎, literally “playing with boys”; from بچه bacha, “child”, and بازی bāzī, “game”) is a slang term in Afghanistan for any activity that involves an adult sexually preying on a child. It includes child pornography, sexual slavery and child prostitution in which prepubescent and adolescent boys are sold to wealthy or powerful men for entertainment and sexual activities.[1] Bacha bazi has existed throughout history,[2] and is currently reported in various parts of Afghanistan.[3][4][5][6][7] Force and coercion are a common component of this abuse, and security officials state they are unable to end it because many of the men involved in bacha bazi-related activities are powerful and well-armed warlords including former Northern Alliance commanders.[8][9][10]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacha_bazi

    • Replies: @Sojourner Truth
  118. syonredux says:
    @syonredux

    Age of consent in the various Mexican states (via WIKIPEDIA)

    [MORE]

    State Minimum age of consent
    (sex with persons under this age is always illegal)
    Age at which there are no restrictions

    (sex with persons below this age is not illegal per se, but it is still open to prosecution) “Violación
    equiparada” “Estupro”
    Aguascalientes 12 16
    Baja California 14 18
    Baja California Sur 12 18
    Campeche 12 18
    Chiapas 12 18
    Chihuahua 14 18
    Coahuila 12 16
    Colima 14 18
    Distrito Federal 12 18
    Durango 14 18
    Guanajuato 12 16
    Guerrero 12 18
    Hidalgo 12 18
    Jalisco 12 18
    México 15 18
    Michoacán 12 16
    Morelos 12 18
    Nayarit Puberty 18
    Nuevo León 14 18
    Oaxaca 12 18
    Puebla 12 18
    Querétaro 12 18
    Quintana Roo 12 18
    San Luis Potosí 12 16
    Sinaloa 12 18
    Sonora 12 18
    Tabasco 12 17
    Tamaulipas 12 18

    Tlaxcala 14
    Veracruz 14 16
    Yucatán 13 16
    Zacatecas 13 18

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_North_America#Mexico

    • Replies: @syonredux
  119. syonredux says:
    @Biff

    Well this is what I know regarding the topic of pedophiles. My wife is from Thailand(of Chinese decent-her family is rather wealthy and well connected),

    Elaborately pointless.This is the internet; you could be a homeless Mestizo drifter for all I know…

    and we spend two months every two years there. My first trip there was in 1990, so I know the place rather well. I’m also American so I know this place rather well.

    Why anyone would want to spend two months every two years* in Thailand is beyond me.

    So you are correct in saying that some societies (e.g., the United States) seem to exhibit a higher level of tolerance for such individuals

    Cart before horse, dear fellow.The increase in the severity of the penalties in Thailand reflects the fact that they are attempting to stamp out practices that are deeply ingrained in that society.

    *Typo corrected

  120. Sunbeam says:
    @Sojourner Truth

    I’ll be dipped. I’m always skeptical about claims like this, but after a bit of googling, there is evidence to back this story up. (I still have my doubts about the John Philips incest story, but there is no way to confirm or deny the claim at this point)

    I’ve read plenty of Marion Zimmer Bradley books. She wasn’t exactly someone I idolized or anything, but still…

    Still not sure what point you were making with that excerpt though. Is it that child molestation happens in the US? With white people? Not sure that is exactly the point of argument here.

    Sometimes it seems to me that you can find evil wherever you look. Whether your ideals are New Age, Liberal, Conservative, Traditional, what have you, you can find skeletons in any closet.

    But we still have these troubling statistics when applied to populations…

  121. Big Bill says:
    @Existential Confusion

    If I remember correctly, a few years ago Fred said his wife was a Basque, from Spain. Apparently, she preferred an American husband and not a stubby (as did Fred), of whom there are plenty down there. But please feel free to correct me.

    • Replies: @Existential Confusion
  122. bomag says:
    @Seraphim

    Any news about the República del Norte? Aztlan?

    The roads are better here.

    There is a sort of civil war ongoing, between the Evil party and the Stupid party. The Evil party has anxiously courted us: we trade our votes in their elections for money and various political favors. It has been a good run until now, but the sheer number of “product” from other parts of the world is diluting the fun; and, as a Mr. Fred Reed has chronicled, el Nortre is no longer any better than the home country, so it is harder to get our neighbors to join us here. It is sad to see a once prosperous and forward looking nation looted by its political class, just to generate some conversation at Georgetown dinner parties.

  123. syonredux says:

    On one who copulates or the equivalent of copulation (“cópula equiparada”means penetration with anything other than a penis) with a person of minor age or who does not have the capacity to understand the significance of the act or to resist the act, will be imposed a penalty of:”

    OK, but what is “minor age?”

    “1 Three months to five years of prison, when the victim is between fifteen and eighteen years of age and the act is realized with his or her consent by means of seduction, which shall be presumed unless there is proof to the contrary, or by means of deception”

    So, sex with a 15 year old is OK if “seduction” or “deception” are not employed?

    2 Eight to fifteen years of prison when the victim is between fifteen and eighteen and the act is realized without his or her consent, or when the victim lacks the capacity to understand the significance or to resist. ”

    So, this section is basically talking about use of force (“without his or her consent”) and instances when judgement is impaired.Does this mean that sex with a 15 year old whose judgement is not impaired and where no coercion is used is OK?

    Twelve to twenty years of prison when the victim is less than fifteen.

    So, 15 is the age of consent in that state?

  124. syonredux says:

    The foregoing is the law in Jalisco, where I live. Similar laws exist in the other states. At risk of boring the reader, I offer another example from a randomly selected state: .

    Why not a non-randomly selected state? How about Mexico City?For that matter, why not go through every Mexican State?

  125. syonredux says:
    @syonredux

    As near as I can tell, this quote from Ann Coulter seems to be the crux of the matter:

    “in thirty-one of thirty-two states… the age of consent for sex is twelve.”

    Now, going according to WIKIPEDIA, this is wrong:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_North_America#Mexico

    Several states have ages of consent that are higher than 12.For example:

    Tlaxcala 14
    Veracruz 14
    Yucatán 13
    Zacatecas 13

    However, going by WIKIPEDIA, it does appear that the average age of consent in Mexico is considerably lower than it is in the USA.

    And there is also the vexing question of enforcement.If 13 is the age of consent in a given state, how vigorously is the law enforced when a 12 or 11 year old is involved?Here in the states, one hears of Law Enforcement looking the other away when a 17 year old has sex in states where 18 is the age of consent.Does the same hold true in Mexican states where the age of consent is 13?

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  126. iSteveFan says:
    @Anonymous

    You mean the land the effing spanish stole from some poor indigenous people?

    Yes. And those indigenous people, known as Apaches, Navajos, etc., etc, now have reservations. Of course they are not Mexicans and I am glad you did not continue to promote the falsity that the land was legitimately Mexican to begin with.

    Anyway, people who think they are superior to another people, are the ones who commit maximum evil on this Earth.

    I agree and at the top of the list of evil people should be those who cut out the hearts of their living victims.

  127. @Asher

    You can look but you can’t touch. And straightout ogling is out too.

  128. jtgw says:
    @Asher

    There’s a difference between pedophilia the psychological condition and pedophilia in common parlance, which is basically the same as legal statutory rape. It is true that being sexually attracted to a physically mature female, whether or not she is legally underage, is psychologically “normal” and doesn’t warrant the label “pedophilia”. But it is also true that physical maturity does not, unfortunately, equal mental maturity; the law recognizes this and so the legal age of consent is in most jurisdictions considerably higher than the average age of menarche.

    But given that neuroscience suggests the brain does not fully mature until 25, maybe even 18 is too low.

  129. Look, there are lots of corrupt 3rd world countries that have laws on the books that are regularly ignored. In those places, if one gets into trouble a well placed bribe will usually solve the problem. Shoot, even reasonably advanced countries like Italy have the same problem: following written laws to the letter is considered something that only chumps do.

    Unfortunately, we are headed the same way. I don’t think Fred has ever written a column that explains how making the United States more like Mexico would be an improvement over what we were up until about 30 years ago.

  130. Fred is right.

    I did some googling, looking for phrase

    sexual arrestado “de 13 años” site:.mx

    and I found a recent arrest

    http://www.excelsior.com.mx/nacional/2015/05/04/1022344

    A Mexican singer, Omar Valenzuela Rivera was arrested for what looks like statutory rape:

    aunque señalan que existe el delito de violación equiparada cuando se mantienen relaciones sexuales con un menor de edad que no cuenta con la capacidad para comprender el significado del hecho.”

    So it looks like at least in this case the age of consent was 14 or more.

  131. Asher says:

    This is anecdontal but my sister spent six months volunteering at an orphanage in Mexico. She said that every one of the kids had been molested and the level was so severe that they couldnt leave the 12 year olds alone with the 5 year olds for even a minute because they would start molesting them as soon as you left the room.

  132. @Hibernian

    “Not entirely different from the United States.”

    For what it’s worth, my Mexican-American friend considered the level of corruption, bribery, lawlessness, etc far worse in Mexico.

  133. The Mexicans seem to believe in what was a universal adage until the west decided an extended childhood was necessary: “If they’re old enough to bleed, they’re old enough to butcher”.

  134. Sunbeam says:
    @Divine Right

    Geez, I’m trying to curtail the length of my posts. But you throw out so much red meat, it’s hard to restrain a response.

    Hmmm I have never read an Ann Coulter book. Probably never will. I’m quite sure I won’t read an Al Franken book.

    But as to your other points… Dale Earnhardt really? That was Franken’s big thing in his book?

    I give not two figs for NASCAR and never have. But while it wasn’t all of America, that was a big, big story. Bigger than a whole lot of things.

    And as for:

    “She’s changed no one’s opinion with her books, guaranteed….and she never will. But then again, she has sold a lot of books with her antics, which was really her goal.”

    You really sure you want to go there? I could easily invert this, and say the same for Franken, who is remarkably obscure for a Senator who was elected in 2008. What has he been doing since then? I mean if someone went over Franken’s public record and that book (does he have more than one?) you mean to tell me that everything he has written is vetted that well? He is a pretty rare one for a politician if that is the case. I’ll let you in on a secret: Politicians talk lots. And the law of averages says that a keyboard warrior can google up all kinds of stuff they said that was stupid if they have some transcripts and a little time. And that goes with all of them.

    As for changing no one’s opinion… well that’s in the eye of the beholder. I’m quite sure she hasn’t changed yours, so the question is why you are at this site exactly? Trying to save people? Pick fights? What?

    Do you think your erudition and mad google skills are going to change anyone’s mind about anything?

    Well, you have. I didn’t give two rips about Ann Coulter one way or another before this. But thanks to you and Fred Reed she has another book sale now.

    I’ve read Fred Reed’s columns here for a while. But I’m hanging it up. I guess I’m not the only one who has noticed it, but his columns get pretty repetitive in subject matter after a while. And lately they seem designed to stir up controversy on this site.

    Whatever he is peddling, I’ve had enough.

  135. Looks like Coulter struck a nerve and told the truth and the supporters of Mexico and Mexican immigration tried to strike back, anyway way they could – even if it meant lying to make Coulter look bad.

    Both Ron’s and Fred’s defense of this attack are bizarre. Its quite obvious that when the age of consent is 12 in MEXICO CITY and that you can’t be charged with statutory rape for having sex with a 13 year old that Coulter is right.

    And all the smoke and gas about “what about the US? Why Jerry Lewis married his cousin 60 years ago!” and “Wow, its just so complicated!” is just a variation of “Hey look, squirrel”.

    BTW, in the UK the age of consent is 16 and the Labour party wants it to be 14.

  136. BTW the age of consent in China is 14 and in Israel its 16.

    The USA in many ways is an outlier.

    • Agree: jtgw
  137. @syonredux

    Even in 1963, an entire white community couldn’t make up their minds and by default, with full knowledge, decided to tolerate open pederasty by a convicted molester.

    http://breendoggle.wikia.com/wiki/Breendoggle_Wiki

    • Replies: @syonredux
  138. Biff says:
    @syonredux

    Cart before horse, dear fellow.The increase in the severity of the penalties in Thailand reflects the fact that they are attempting to stamp out practices that are deeply ingrained in that society.

    It’s a Western demand dimwit. Insulting a culture you know nothing about exposes your shallow biased posts. You’re obviously a pre-madonna, holier than thou, troll that is not interested in medial discussion. You’re fresh out of friends, and I could bet there are some here that wish you would take your loneliness some place else.

    Please ignore me..

    • Replies: @syonredux
  139. J1234 says:

    So, Fred Reed is mad that a non-white ethnic group has been maligned. He’s one of the most volatile and overstated authors on Unz or Takimag – so much so that I stopped reading him a while back – and yet…he’s now acting offended. The real problem I have with him is his tendency towards simplistic thinking. I think John Derbyshire even gave him a mild rebuke (via one of his columns) a year or two ago.

    Simplistic thinking is why he lashes out at Ann Coulter in his article without bothering to ask himself what her sources might have been. He said you can find the info with google in ten minutes, but I found the wiki article that jibed with AC in 20 seconds. If he found that same wiki entry, he should have mentioned it in his article so it wouldn’t look like she just made the whole thing up (even if it is wrong.)

    But this is Fred we’re talking about. Details aren’t a real big thing to him, maybe. As he tells it, Mexico doesn’t seem much worse than the US. I’m guessing that’s why he now lives in Mexico. For those of us who can tell a difference, we choose to live in the US.

  140. justin says:
    @Tim Howells

    Mexico’s Age of Consent is 12 at the Federal level, but sex is still illegal if the kid is unconscious or doesn’t understand what is happening. In other words, in Mexico it’s fine to have “consensual” sex with a 12 year old… Seems like Ann was right to me.

    Fred is in total denial about the wretchedness of his adopted home. Maybe it’s like how old shut-in cat ladies get so used to the stench of their homes, even as it overpowers visitors.

  141. Justin says:
    @Ron Unz

    Wikipedia has the summary on its Age of Consent in north America page.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_North_America#/media/File:Age_of_Consent_-_North_America.svg

    I know you’re a big immigration booster, but there’s no point in trying to obfuscate this. Mexico has much lower age of consent laws than the US. It’s simply a fact.

  142. syonredux says:
    @Biff

    It’s a Western demand dimwit.

    Dear fellow, pederasty has a very long history in Thailand.That’s why Western pederasts started traveling there; it was a place where they could freely indulge their vices…

    Insulting a culture you know nothing about exposes your shallow biased posts.

    How much do you have to know about pederasty in order to condemn it?

    You’re obviously a pre-madonna,

    Do you mean prima donna?

    holier than thou,

    Certainly holier than some….

    troll that is not interested in medial discussion.

    Just out of curiosity, what is a “medial discussion?”

    You’re fresh out of friends,

    On the internet?

    and I could bet there are some here that wish you would take your loneliness some place else.

    Is one the loneliest number?

    Please ignore me..

    A fervent desire, dear fellow

    • Replies: @Biff
  143. anon • Disclaimer says:

    Whatever the situation in Mexico, mass immigration of low-skilled males leads to large quantities of sexual violence against children because of the skewed gender ratio both directly and through the increased demand for cheap prostitution leading to gangs supplying that demand.

    Supplying the demand for cheap prostitution caused by mass immigration is and was the biggest driver behind the UK’s Pakistani grooming gangs and it is the same *everywhere*. The media just lie about it.

    The only big difference from place to place is some ethnic groups get the girls from back home while some prey on girls from the native population.

    (The men are low paid relative to the local average income and are often sending some of it home as well which is why the prostitutes need to be too cheap to be voluntary – hence why the gangs who supply the demand use slaves and children. If they were all oil workers on 100 grand a year there’d be enough volunteers to supply the demand.)

  144. Ron Unz says:
    @syonredux

    As near as I can tell, this quote from Ann Coulter seems to be the crux of the matter:

    “in thirty-one of thirty-two states… the age of consent for sex is twelve.”

    Now, going according to WIKIPEDIA…

    Look, “Syon” you have this annoying tendency to spam comment-threads by blockquoting *enormously* long sections of Wikipedia on all sorts of controversial things. That merely proves you to be a total idiot, who quotes “authority” without doing any thinking. Everyone knows that Wikipedia is a worthless source on any “touchy” matters, and you claim to be in English Lit, so presumably you have no personal expertise in these topics. Maybe you should get go ahead and blockquote SPLC reports instead…

    Here’s an amusing datapoint. In one of your earliest comments, you quoted a somewhat more reputable MSM source, namely The Christian Science Monitor. Your blockquote mentioned that a few years ago the Mexican State of Jalisco had raised its “age of consent” from 12 to 15. Okay.

    http://www.unz.com/freed/ann-coulter-and-the-manufacture-of-pedophilia/#comment-1036950

    But then, just a little while later, you quoted your usual authority of Wikipedia for a long list of Mexican States and their ages of consent. Wikipedia gives the age in Jasisco as 12, directly contradicting your previous claim. And you were too lazy to even notice that your MSM source contradicted your Wikipedia source:

    http://www.unz.com/freed/ann-coulter-and-the-manufacture-of-pedophilia/#comment-1037198

    To repeat myself, I know *ZERO* about Mexican law and I don’t read any Spanish, let alone the specialized Spanish used in government legal statutes. Maybe Fred is misunderstanding the statutes or maybe Fred is lying or maybe his Mexican legal sources are lying. I don’t have a clue.

    But Coulter’s book supposedly claims that in 31 of 32 Mexican states the age of consent for sex is twelve. If she didn’t cite any source for such a *massively* explosive factual claim, then that proves she’s exactly what Fred accuses her of being, and no, citing “Wikipedia” doesn’t cut the mustard.

    One thing I *do* know is how lots of popular books by ideological celebrity-pundits get produced. Very often, the pundit is too busy with TV appearances or well-paid speaking gigs to do any research or writing, and simply delegates such mundane tasks to lowly-paid “research assistants” or even unpaid interns. These latter tend to be pretty lazy themselves, and often just look at Wikipedia or Google a bit and find some random web page that says something interesting. That’s also why so many prominent figures get caught plagiarizing:

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/did-slavoj-zizek-plagiarize-jared-taylors-american-renaissance/

    http://www.unz.com/runz/slavoj-zizek-robert-bonomo-peter-frost-and-phil-rushton/

    Now Fred actually quoted some credible-sounding Mexican statutes in his column, so maybe some of you Coulter-enthusiasts should just ask her for her source. Maybe her facts are 100% correct, but it wouldn’t surprise me if her honest answer would be “one of my former interns must have found it somewhere on the Internet…”

  145. @Pat Gilligan

    Strange that such an artical which is not world shattering by any means bring out so many rightwingers in defense of their queen.!!!!

  146. bluedog says:
    @Pat Gilligan

    Come on Clint now your talking exceptionalism (that she is in some way exceptional) when the truth is that any reporter or author if they wish to sell me a book should at least visit the place and research the topic there rather then online sources who many or may not have their own [email protected]

  147. @Pat Gilligan

    Hollywood is great on special effects, just it…

    Look for iranian, french, italian, swedish (Bergman) cinema.

    American culture is proleeish.

    • Replies: @syonredux
  148. Dr. Atl says:

    Why is this so hard to understand? I’m a lawyer, fluent in Spanish, who’s lived in Mexico for more than 12 years. I’ve also taught a course in Legal English down here.

    Fred is citing Mexican state rape statutes. The readers are properly citing the statutory rape statutes.

    When the young woman and the family consents, it’s legal for any aged man to have sex with a Mexican girl over twelve years of age.

    This is so well known, I really think any gringo male asking this question in Mexico would be greeted with smirks.

    As many commentators have noted, however, it doesn’t end there…. Sex, and mariage, well below this age is common in many areas.

  149. Seraphim says:
    @WGG

    Homosexuals are afraid of women.

  150. Isabella says:
    @Tim Howells

    wikipedia??? You mean that site aka worldwide as the The CIA Factbook??

    Nah. Sorry. It’s very clear Fred did a copy and paste from the law which is obviously online, as is the case in most countries these days, and then gave a translation.

    What it states is the law as written. Which is the only source you can go to. And it makes it clear it is an offence carrying jail time to have sex even with consent with anyone under 18 yrs.

    This thing about trash?? How many of you “Mexicans have low IQ’s and trash everywhere they go?” have actually been to Mexico? I see a few claim to.

    I live in Ecuador. I’ve been through downtown Sydney too. The latter was full of potholes and filth. My daughter recounted with horrified disbelief of her visits to New York, and the garbage strewn everywhere “and this is a major world city” she exclaimed in disbelief.
    Oh – Ecuador?? full of these low IQ filthy latinos?? Cleanest place I’ve ever been. Ever.

    • Replies: @Jason
  151. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    I didn’t think the pedophilia stuff was even the most controversial part of Coulter’s book. She had some real salacious passages on the popularity of donkey shows and donkey sex in general down there. She goes into pretty graphic detail describing the shows and writes about how donkey shows are a national pastime and a rite of passage of sorts in Mexico.

  152. TheJester says:
    @expat

    Yes, 12 years as the age of consent is within living memory in the United States.

    My daughter-in-law has a cousin in West Virginia who was married at 13 (12 was legal) and widowed at 16 when her husband was killed in a coal mine explosion. It is also within my living memory (which also recalls the time before air conditioning, TV, and dial telephones) that the law essentially ignored sex between adults (within limits) and under-aged girls as long as there was no compulsion. Charges were not brought against a male unless the girl’s parents filed charges. If the family was OK with a relationship, the law was OK with the relationship. If the girl became pregnant, all could be made right if the two married. “Shotgun” weddings: the male had no choice; society WAS going to hold him legally and socially responsible for his actions. The child having a “name” and two parents were more important than other considerations.

    It might not be a bad thing to return to the values of this era, especially that a male who impregnates a female WILL marry her and care for his new wife and child.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  153. Seraphim says:
    @TheJester

    Thirteen years was the the legal age of marriage for centuries in all parts of the world.

  154. @syonredux

    So, should Fred just pay for a written legal opinion and detailed accounting of Mexican rape laws, and then pay for a written, carefully explained rebuttal of a UNICEF opinion

    Well, seeing as how he doesn’t seem capable of doing that on his own, yeah

    You do not seem to require the same level of evidentiary documentation for Coulter’s assertions.

    No columnist is going pay to have legal opinions written to satisfy the demands of some unknown poster; your demands are ludicrous. Your own proofs are copy and paste jobs from wikipedia.

    • Replies: @syonredux
    , @Sunbeam
  155. syonredux says:
    @Ron Unz

    Look, “Syon” you have this annoying tendency to spam comment-threads by blockquoting *enormously* long sections of Wikipedia on all sorts of controversial things.

    Frankly, Ron, I was rather surprised to find out that age of consent in Mexico is a controversial topic.One tends to assume that that kind of thing is easily established.

    That merely proves you to be a total idiot, who quotes “authority” without doing any thinking.

    Ron, are you still upset that I don’t accept your authority when you proclaim that Mestizo and Amerind Hispanics are not harming America?

    And Ron, if you are going to insult people, at least try to be clever.Imitate the masters, men like Ambrose Bierce and HL Mencken.

    Everyone knows that Wikipedia is a worthless source on any “touchy” matters, and you claim to be in English Lit, so presumably you have no personal expertise in these topics. Maybe you should get go ahead and blockquote SPLC reports instead…

    Why is age of consent in Mexico so touchy, Ron? According to Fred, Mexico has nothing to be touchy about…

    As for using WIKIPEDIA, Ron, I never take it as the final word on anything.I’m simply showing what it has to say on the matter.

    Here’s an amusing datapoint. In one of your earliest comments, you quoted a somewhat more reputable MSM source, namely The Christian Science Monitor.

    How reliable is the CSM, Ron? Is it better than the NYTIMES?

    Your blockquote mentioned that a few years ago the Mexican State of Jalisco had raised its “age of consent” from 12 to 15. Okay.

    http://www.unz.com/freed/ann-coulter-and-the-manufacture-of-pedophilia/#comment-1036950

    But then, just a little while later, you quoted your usual authority of Wikipedia for a long list of Mexican States and their ages of consent. Wikipedia gives the age in Jasisco as 12, directly contradicting your previous claim. And you were too lazy to even notice that your MSM source contradicted your Wikipedia source:

    I did notice it, Ron.And I assumed that others would as well.

    To repeat myself, I know *ZERO* about Mexican law and I don’t read any Spanish, let alone the specialized Spanish used in government legal statutes. Maybe Fred is misunderstanding the statutes or maybe Fred is lying or maybe his Mexican legal sources are lying. I don’t have a clue.

    Which is why, as I’ve said repeatedly, Fred needs to have one of his Mexican lawyer friends weigh-in.

    But Coulter’s book supposedly claims that in 31 of 32 Mexican states the age of consent for sex is twelve. If she didn’t cite any source for such a *massively* explosive factual claim, then that proves she’s exactly what Fred accuses her of being, and no, citing “Wikipedia” doesn’t cut the mustard.

    Ron, maybe you haven’t noticed, but I’m actually agreeing with Fred on that point.Even the WIKIPEDIA entry seems to agree that many Mexican states have ages of consent that are over 12.That being said, the average age of consent in Mexico does seem to be scandalously low by contemporary Anglo standards.

    As for Ann Coulter’s sources, Fred seems to have a copy of the book.What does Fred have to say on the topic?

    Now Fred actually quoted some credible-sounding Mexican statutes in his column,

    And one of those statues seems to indicate that sex with a 15 year old is kosher, provided that things like force and deception are not used and that she is compos mentis

    so maybe some of you Coulter-enthusiasts

    I’m not really a Coulter enthusiast.She tends to preach to the choir a bit too much for my tastes.I do, however, approve of her attempt to keep Anglo-America Anglo…

    should just ask her for her source. Maybe her facts are 100% correct, but it wouldn’t surprise me if her honest answer would be “one of my former interns must have found it somewhere on the Internet…”

    Again, Fred claims to have a copy of the book.Shouldn’t he tell us what the sources are?

    • Replies: @syonredux
    , @Ron Unz
  156. syonredux says:
    @Existential Confusion

    So, should Fred just pay for a written legal opinion and detailed accounting of Mexican rape laws, and then pay for a written, carefully explained rebuttal of a UNICEF opinion

    Why would they have to be paid? Fred would be giving them free space in his column.It would be their chance to defend the honor (such as it is) of Mexico.

    You do not seem to require the same level of evidentiary documentation for Coulter’s assertions.

    Well, this is Fred’s column, not Ann Coulter’s.

    No columnist is going pay

    As noted previously, would he have to pay? I know plenty of American lawyers and academics who would be pleased as punch to be granted free space in a much (?) read blog

    to have legal opinions written to satisfy the demands of some unknown poster;

    I’m simply noting that this issue seems to be surprisingly complex.It would be quite illuminating to have a specialist clear things up.

    your demands are ludicrous.

    Demands for truth and clarity are ludicrous?

    Your own proofs are copy and paste jobs from wikipedia.

    Well, that and things like The Christian Science Monitor….

  157. syonredux says:
    @Santoculto

    Hollywood is great on special effects, just it…

    Look for iranian, french, italian, swedish (Bergman) cinema.

    I dunno. Hawks, Welles, Buster Keaton, Kubrick, Ford, etc: they look pretty great to me.

    As for the virtues of Italian cinema, I’m assuming that you are not talking about Giallo?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giallo

  158. Sunbeam says:
    @Existential Confusion

    I think Syon goes overboard with things, but he doesn’t just copy and paste from wikipedia.

    He is very well read, and uses a lot of sources that go far beyond wikipedia.

    My wiki and google skills are quite good, and no way I could do that stuff as quickly as he does.

    Where Syon loses me is when he goes into these long post and counterpost feedback loops about WWI or something. And that may be more a difference of philosophy. I just don’t see the utility of an argument about what Germany would have done if they had won WWI.

    Of course I also think that some of the common themes on this site are silly, like this Roissy guy and his game thing. That is the kind of thing that only exists in certain kind of society. I mean if someone told him “Hey Chief, that’s my sister. And if you nose around any more I’m going to rip your head off, and crap down your neck. You got that Chief?” Well what would he do?

    And thus all game is defeated. Well unless you can back up your “game” on your own or with buddies. Or have some cops who will defend your right to “game” with the full extent of the law; but I’d say this is an artificial social situation.

    Ah tradition and conservatism. You guys talk about it, but don’t ask what it means.

  159. syonredux says:
    @syonredux

    And one of those statutes* seems to indicate that sex with a 15 year old is kosher, provided that things like force and deception are not used and that she is compos mentis

    * corrected a typo

  160. Ron Unz says:
    @syonredux

    Look, “Syon” you have this annoying tendency to spam comment-threads by blockquoting *enormously* long sections of Wikipedia on all sorts of controversial things.

    Ron, are you still upset that I don’t accept your authority when you proclaim that Mestizo and Amerind Hispanics are not harming America?

    Nope! Lots of other commenters here—like maybe 95%!—generally agree with you, but almost none of them irritate me as much as you do.

    That’s because you endlessly *SPAM* all the comment-thread here with *enormously* long copy-and-paste selections from Wikipedia or The New York Review of Books or whatever. Then sometimes you *repeat* those very long blockquotes over and over and over again on different threads, thereby clogging up the entire website with your stupid spam. And you don’t even have the good grace to insert “MORE” marker in your ultra-long blockquote comments, which would make them less intrusive. There’s also some radically new software innovation that most of the other commenters here have already discovered called a “link”…

    Frankly, I’m not sure if I can think of a single original thought or idea you’ve ever presented, whether right or wrong. I assume it’s because you don’t have a brain in your head, but just spend all your time “blockquoting from authority.” Maybe I should fund the website by charging you per thousand words of blockquoted text.

    I’m someone who’s very, very reluctant to ban commenters from my webzine. But if I weren’t, you’d probably be right at the top of the list.

    • Replies: @syonredux
  161. jtgw says:

    I think the ideal would lie somewhere between the contemporary Anglo world’s extreme (and as some have pointed out, newfangled) intolerance towards the idea that girls might want to have sex with older men before they turn 18, and Mexico’s (or at least Mexican culture’s) idea that any girl past puberty (or even before) is fair game for catcalling, stalking and assault by horny older men. Maybe girls below a certain age should be allowed to have sex but only under the supervision of responsible adults? Just trying to think outside the box here…

  162. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    If it’s a contest between Ann Coulter’s credibility or Fred Reed’s – are you kidding me? It’s no contest.
    Ann wins hands down.
    Her book “Adios America!” is well-researched, contains copious notes, and is actually well-reasoned.
    Fred? By his own admission, he took a few minutes to Google, and shot from the hip. This is Fred’s style and actually part of his appeal on many topics – in an earlier era, he would have been the entertaining big-mouth in the general store spouting off on issues of the day.
    Ann’s style is caustic and, if you are on the same wavelength, humorous. Her language is deliberately inflammatory. From her throw away one-liners, critics initially assume she must not be serious, and therefore can’t have spent a lot of time researching.
    But the facts? She actually marshals them well. Watch interviews with Ann defending her book. She responds well to attacks on her reasoning; her critics end up disparaging her motives for daring to bring up the facts, i.e. only a racist would focus on such things. From previous books, Ann knows her critics lie in wait to call her out on any picayune factoid not properly footnoted. She is way over Fred’s level, as well as most of her critics, on this score.
    She doesn’t pretend to play fair. She is like a good lawyer presenting her side of the case. In that way, she’s like Fred. But in this case, she’s the better lawyer.
    For a taste of her style on covering immigration issues, take a look at her recent column:
    http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2015-07-29.html
    I think she does a good job of summing up GOP connivance on illegal immigration. The targets of her wrath certainly won’t be happy, but what do you expect?

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  163. syonredux says:
    @Ron Unz

    Nope! Lots of other commenters here—like maybe 95%!—generally agree with you, but almost none of them irritate me as much as you do.

    Such flattery, Ron….

    That’s because you endlessly *SPAM* all the comment-thread here with *enormously* long copy-and-paste selections from Wikipedia or The New York Review of Books or whatever. Then sometimes you *repeat* those very long blockquotes over and over and over again on different threads, thereby clogging up the entire website with your stupid spam.

    How can I “clog” a website, Ron? Isn’t space unlimited here?

    As for it being “stupid,” Ron, some of my “Spam” has been gilt-edged by Steve.For example, this piece about a pro-slavery rabbi got the gilt-edged treatment:

    http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/112312/new-yorks-pro-slavery-rabbi

    And you don’t even have the good grace to insert “MORE” marker in your ultra-long blockquote comments, which would make them less intrusive.

    I hate it when people use the “MORE” feature….

    There’s also some radically new software innovation that most of the other commenters here have already discovered called a “link”…

    Which I use from time to time.However, when I am reading someone else’s post, I tend to find links quite annoying.It’s far more convenient to simply have the stuff there in the post.

    Frankly, I’m not sure if I can think of a single original thought or idea you’ve ever presented, whether right or wrong.

    Pay closer attention, Ron.I’m full of provocative, politically incorrect ideas about the superiority of Anglo culture.

    I assume it’s because you don’t have a brain in your head, but just spend all your time “blockquoting from authority.”

    Dear me, I never get any thanks for the work that I do, hacking my way through the internet jungle….

    Maybe I should fund the website by charging you per thousand words of blockquoted text.

    Even better, maybe you should not allow posts that don’t have sources and notes.God knows that I’ve read lots and lots of unsourced drivel…

    I’m someone who’s very, very reluctant to ban commenters from my webzine. But if I weren’t, you’d probably be right at the top of the list.

    But Ron, that means that you’ve noticed me.I’ve stood out from the crowd.Better to be an irritant than a non-entity.

  164. Sunbeam says:
    @Ron Unz

    ” Very often, the pundit is too busy with TV appearances or well-paid speaking gigs to do any research or writing, and simply delegates such mundane tasks to lowly-paid “research assistants” or even unpaid interns.”

    That works if you replace “pundit” with “politician” as well.

    I have an anecdote about that. (Yeah, yeah, I know.) I have a family friend who was once a State Senator. The man in question wasn’t a trivial man, he had once been a Captain in the Navy.

    Anyway I asked him once how he (and the other non-lawyer politicians) could possibly vote or propose legislation about laws. When you get to that point, someone always wants the law written a certain way for … reasons. And even if you were a lawyer it could take a good bit of research to figure out what the proposal actually meant, and even more homework in some cases to figure out who wants it done that way and why.

    I found his answer disturbing. If I understood him correctly his “tribe” (he was a staunch Republican) took certain positions and supplied them with all the answers they needed to decide how they wanted to vote. Actually it sounded more like he rubberstamped anything that came from a pre-determined list of “good guys.” (and I am being charitable about what my memory tells me)

    I have a lot of respect for this man, but I’m not so sure I want government done this way. Although no one is lined up to ask my opinion about this sort of thing. It’s not like my opinion of him was diminished exactly… I dunno, just found it kind of disturbing.

    And I think I have enough framework to understand tribalism. But what puzzles me is who generates these positions and research in the first place? Is it some kind of conspiracy (unlike some I don’t mock this notion)? Or is it simply that whoever cares about some issue goes to whatever ideologically appropriate lobbying group, forks out some of Johnny Chung’s subway tokens (money) and whatever you want goes out via the usual sources?

    Maybe I’m all wet, but it sure seems to me like it is a heck of a way to run a country. And my personal take is it works exactly the same at the national level.

    A lot more abstract and depersonalized, but sure seems like backroom politics is alive and well. And always was.

  165. @Anonymous

    She doesn’t pretend to play fair. She is like a good lawyer presenting her side of the case. In that way, she’s like Fred.

    If Ann and Fred are the attorneys for the two sides, I nominate Allan Wall to be judge. He’s shown himself to be both fair and knowledgeable about Mexico, and has lived there longer than Fred and married into la raza.

    • Replies: @syonredux
  166. Jason says:
    @Isabella

    How many of you “Mexicans have low IQ’s and trash everywhere they go?” have actually been to Mexico?

    I have. It’s miserable there compared to the US or any White country. This is silly.

  167. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Ron Unz

    Well, I’ve never read any of Coulter’s books and my knowledge of Mexican law is zero, but here’s my two cents

    On ESPN…

    “Let’s go to John Smith for this analysis on the NFL’s ruling on Brady and Deflatgate.”

    JS: “Well, first off, I’ve never watched an NFL game and don’t know the rules, but here’s my take on the decision…

    JS: “…and I have a friend who is going to be a CFL ref and this is what he says…”

  168. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Fred Reed

    Fred,

    Could you write a piece on the donkey shows down there? From some bloggers and commenters, you get the impression that donkey shows are ubiquitous in Mexico and a national pastime of sorts.

    • Replies: @Truth
  169. syonredux says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    She doesn’t pretend to play fair. She is like a good lawyer presenting her side of the case. In that way, she’s like Fred.

    If Ann and Fred are the attorneys for the two sides, I nominate Allan Wall to be judge. He’s shown himself to be both fair and knowledgeable about Mexico, and has lived there longer than Fred and married into la raza.

    Yeah, I tend to think of Allan Wall whenever I read a Fred Reed puff-piece on the glories of Mexico.Whereas Fred has gone native, Allan Wall retains his Angloness.

    Here’s Allan Wall commenting on the Mexican response to Ann Coulter’s book (out of deference to Ron Unz’s delicate sensibilities, I’ve refrained from quoting any of it):

    http://www.vdare.com/articles/memo-from-middle-america-reconquistas-anti-americans-natural-republicans-rage-at-ann-coulter-south-of-the-border

  170. @Ron Unz

    As I’ve pointed out multiple times, the Mexican statutes that Fred Reed quotes have NOTHING to do with socially accepted or legally permissible female age at marriage or voluntary sexual intercourse. Reed is essentially engaging in a type of straw man argument, providing info on how RAPE is defined in Mexico. He never addresses the issue of whether or not the ages at which females become legitimately sexually available to men are repulsively low in Mexico. There are three possibilities: (1) Reed is becoming too senile to understand the difference and make a rational argument. (2) Reed is willfully using a sophomoric high school debating trick in an attempt to gull the gullible (of which there appear to be far too many (including you, Mr. Unz).
    (3) Reed is just a liar whe has a jones for Ms. Coulter.

  171. Truth says:
    @syonredux

    But Ron, that means that you’ve noticed me.I’ve stood out from the crowd.Better to be an irritant than a non-entity.

    For what it’s worth, Dawg, I consider you a non-entity.

    • Replies: @syonredux
  172. Truth says:
    @Anonymous

    Could you write a piece on the donkey shows down there? From some bloggers and commenters, you get the impression that donkey shows are ubiquitous in Mexico and a national pastime of sorts.

    LMFAO! Dude, I’m laughing so hard I’m crying here. But seriously, what is it about Fred that makes all of the WNs here make him into such a site-wide joke? As an outsider I just don’t get it.

    • Replies: @Sunbeam
  173. Dr. Doom says:

    I think maybe Ms. Coulter has hit some sore spot in Ole Fred here. Whatsamatta, Fred? Are you running a preschoolers prostitute ring? Maybe you’re on Carlos Slim’s payroll to downplay those rape gangs and mass graves they have there huh? I guess you need some money for pot?
    Watch him get all testy and threaten me, cause he thinks I’m just a punk or something. Hey old man why don’t you come up and try something. I’m tired of your shilling for the third world.

    • Replies: @Existential Confusion
  174. @Dr. Doom

    Whatsamatta, Fred? Are you running a preschoolers prostitute ring? Hey old man why don’t you come up and try something. I’m tired of your shilling for the third world.

    You are a wonderful representative of the level of juvenile discourse provided by the more disagreeable elements posting to this article. Quite a contribution to civility you have made, threatening a 70 year old, legally blind, gentleman. How brave, what a hero.

    When Fred was a young Marine in VietNam, I am sure he would have enjoyed complying with your request – if he could have pried you out of your mother’s basement.

  175. @syonredux

    Pay closer attention, Ron.I’m full of provocative, politically incorrect ideas

    Well no, not really.

    that means that you’ve noticed me.I’ve stood out from the crowd.Better to be an irritant than a non-entity.

    …and that admirably sums up your contributions to the conversation.

    • Replies: @syonredux
  176. @Fred Reed

    .“Hey, leetle girl, want an ice-cream cone? ”

    Probably works better in areas that ice cream is not available, try candy that doesn’t melt. I have heard people yelling out advertisements for women having sex with burro shows & rooster fights, & when I was in the closet went to a burro show with co workers.

    “I asked 2 lawyers”

    Did you ask 2 if buying guns, cocaine, pot or DUIs was legal or culturally acceptable? What are the current bribes to pay a cop that pulls you over for a DUI for gringos & natives? Is there a discount for a gringo with a 12yo native kid in the car?

    If Barney Frank and Lena Dunham want white kids to be plentiful in the future more than you do you might be a cuckservative

  177. syonredux says:
    @Truth

    But Ron, that means that you’ve noticed me.I’ve stood out from the crowd.Better to be an irritant than a non-entity.

    For what it’s worth, Dawg, I consider you a non-entity.

    Dear fellow, that only works if you don’t acknowledge the other guy…..

    • Replies: @Truth
  178. @rienzi

    Perhaps the good Mexicans are the ones working the oil jobs and for the richest man in the world Carlos Slims in Mexico. Gays that travel to cities they don’t live in are usually the worst examples of behaviour but probably behave themselves at home. Its also possible we only get the Mexicans that would be better off on welfare if mexico had welfare.

  179. syonredux says:
    @Existential Confusion

    Pay closer attention, Ron.I’m full of provocative, politically incorrect ideas

    Well no, not really.

    Dear fellow, do you want to know just how politically incorrect I am? I actually think that the USA should have not allowed immigration from continental Europe.Like Benjamin Franklin, I think that the USA would have been better off as an exclusively Anglo nation.

    that means that you’ve noticed me.I’ve stood out from the crowd.Better to be an irritant than a non-entity.

    …and that admirably sums up your contributions to the conversation.

    Dear fellow, irritants are incredibly important.The gadfly of Athens and all that:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trial_of_Socrates

  180. @Big Bill

    If I remember correctly, a few years ago Fred said his wife was a Basque, from Spain.

    Big Bill – if that is accurate, then I stand corrected. I was always under the impression that she was a native of Mexico from comments like this:

    Now, since I live in Mexico, have a Mexican wife, and speak Spanish at home, it will be difficult to nail me with racial hatred of Hispanics.

    http://www.fredoneverything.net/Jared.shtml

    Perhaps her family immigrated from the Basque region.

  181. @Biff says: “let’s cut to the chase, and find out where the pedophiles are. The top five countries that have the most child prostitutes are: Sri Lanka, Thailand, Brazil, United States, Canada” … Well, sure, but the US is a nation of immigrants.

  182. Truth says:
    @syonredux

    You’re right Dawg, I really consider you an extremely small entity.

    • Replies: @syonredux
  183. Sunbeam says:
    @Truth

    “But seriously, what is it about Fred that makes all of the WNs here make him into such a site-wide joke? As an outsider I just don’t get it.”

    Just guessing here, but I take it “WN” as you have used it means “White Nationalist?”

    Now, just as another guess, you think this is a bad thing.

    Explain that please. What exactly is wrong with that?

    If I chose to be a “White Nationalist,” I gather I should be ashamed. Explain to me why.

    Then I’d like for you to explain whether any other identifiable groups seem to stick together, and if they do, you lecture them too, right?

    • Replies: @Truth
    , @Truth
  184. @Anon

    By the millions actually. Something like 1/3 of the male population of Mexico has migrated to the US.

    Where Fred goes wrong here is in assuming that most of the Mexicans are like his smart and charming family. Maybe the upper castes in Mexico are, the ones I’ve met seem to be but the lower castes that end up Stateside aren’t.

    They are not an asset for the US any more than they were for Mexico.

    And note too the bad habits of that culture aren’t restricted to the lower class, I’ve seen more than a few young women, smart, attractive and skilled dragged away from education and opportunity by parents who’d preferred them to be doing low paid manual labor or have out of wedlock pregnancy to healthy social climbing, them waiting a bit, having a couple of kids and a better more affluent , more American life.

    Unless some means can be had to break these cultures trends and its not easy, they’ll follow the people and prevent even the smart people who in small numbers might have value as new Americans from being such.

    In these circumstances we are far better with repatriation than immigration.

  185. @syonredux

    Dear fellow, irritants are incredibly important.The gadfly of Athens and all that:

    Dear fellow, you mistake the form of irritant you represent – you are much closer to dermatitis than Socrates.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dermatitis

    • Replies: @syonredux
  186. syonredux says:
    @Truth

    You’re right Dawg, I really consider you an extremely small entity.

    But yet, dear fellow, still large enough for you to notice.O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!

  187. Biff says:
    @syonredux

    You’re fresh out of friends,

    On the internet?

    My guess is that you have been banned from every single comment section on the entire internet, and this is your last stand.

    • Replies: @syonredux
  188. syonredux says:
    @Biff

    You’re fresh out of friends,

    On the internet?

    My guess is that you have been banned from every single comment section on the entire internet, and this is your last stand.

    Hardly, dear fellow; it’s all a matter of adjusting the pitch to the shape of the field

  189. syonredux says:
    @Existential Confusion

    Dear fellow, irritants are incredibly important.The gadfly of Athens and all that:

    Dear fellow, you mistake the form of irritant you represent – you are much closer to dermatitis than Socrates.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dermatitis

    On the other hand, Socrates had the ancient Athenians, whereas all I have is you…..

    It rather inclines one to a belief in the inevitability of decay….

  190. Sunbeam says:

    Oh for god’s sake. I’ll be Syon’s friend.

    I’m not exactly sure why this turned into a dump on Syon thread, but whatever. I’m sure he is a big boy and can handle it.

    But as regards the original topic this is a thread about, well I have been reading Fred for a long time. I’ve actually read all 600 (or close to it) entries he has on his blog. Heck I even looked at the police ones, some of them.

    I’m not terribly sure what I think about Mexicans/Central Americans/4.5′ feet tall Mexican Indians as to whether they like their women young, are murderous, and can’t pass up a good donkey show.

    But I don’t really want to find out. I can’t think of a single advantage to having mass numbers of them coming in to the country. I literally can’t think of a single benefit to it.

    So however, why ever, who ever is against this, well I’m all in favor of them.

    I’ll go further than that: I really don’t have the slightest bit of interest in anything south of the Rio Grande. Kind of sad to give up Brazil, I’ve always wanted to go to Carnival. But that is literally the only thing I can think of. And heck I can always go to New Orleans and catch some boobs. So no loss. Still that Carnival makes Mardi Gras seem like a church social…

    But what is down there? If you don’t want the culture, can’t stand the literature (what I’ve seen translated), don’t like the music, think the art looks like they gave a kid a box of neon colored crayons…

    Seems like a whole lot of negative, and absolutely no positive. It wouldn’t be a problem of exploiting South America if my attitudes were prevalent, it would be more that no one would ever pay the slightest bit of attention to it.

    So whether Ann Coulter did enough research, whether Mexicans are crime prone, none of that matters. I do not want to deal with them. And if there is anything I can do as far as voting, or buying books, or reading or not reading a certain blogger, then I am going to do that.

    Not that I expect any of that to mean anything.

  191. Michelle says:
    @Biff

    That’s because Mexican men can have as much sex with under age girls as they want, barring incest, which is punished severely in villages. Often by lynching. My ex supervisor fostered a Mexican girl who was raped by her grandfather, and the villagers hung him from a tree. In the countries wherein sex with underage girls is illegal, like the US, men have to pay for the “privilege”.

    I read that American couples who move to Russia often end up breaking up because the male halves often end up sleeping with 16 year old Russian girls. I believe that in Russia, if a girl looks to be of the age of consent you get a pass for having had sex with an under age girl.

    In any case, let us be real, young women are fresh, lovely and sexually attractive. They are testing out their sexuality and attractiveness. Most normal heterosexual males are attracted to them. In this climate, it is taboo to admit so. But it is a biological fact. I do not hold it against men to be attracted to young girls. Acting on the impulse is, however, culturally and socially unacceptable and there are other outlets for men in our culture. However, I do not agree that men who are attracted to young women are ” sick.”

    I believe in evolution. If s girl has her period it is for a reason. When a girl/woman ovulates she is sexually receptive. That is not to say that culture cannot trump biology, it often does. Doing my family research on my Cornish Grandfather I noticed that the British women married late, in their early 20’s mostly, after having served as domestic servants for a few years. I believe, for that reason, the Brits were very successful as a culture. Ditto for the Chinese Americans in this present day. Almost never do they have children in their teens or even early 20’s and as a result, they are very successful at achieving the American dream. But that is because their culture trumps biology.

    We are social creatures, some more than others, and have made a decision that girls should preferably experience life before they engage in sexual activity. I am on board with that, but it does go against our biological impulses.

    There is an awful lot of holier than thou stuff going on about Mexicans right now and it is creepy. Feces tainted cilantro, for instance. We had feces tainted spinach right here in the US of A. I really don’t eat at fast food restaurants because I am scared of feces tainted food. Yet, right-wing pundits are freaking out about cilantro, which they probably don’t even cook with.

    • Agree: Jtgw, el topo
    • Replies: @Biff
  192. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @syonredux

    If you’ve read Plato, you should know that Socrates often criticizes his long-winded interlocutors for spamming the dialogue with extended, sophistic comments and diatribes, sort of the ancient equivalent of spamming up comment threads with long copy-pastes from Wikipedia. So in that respect, you’re not like Socrates, but more like one of his long-winded interlocutors.

    On the other hand, Socrates was a dirty old man who was attracted to young men like Alcibiades and was jailed and sentenced to death for being an annoying pervert, so maybe that’s what you had in mind.

    • Replies: @Truth
    , @syonredux
  193. Biff says:
    @Michelle

    Yours was a good read. Thanks ;^)

  194. Epicaric says:

    There are roughly thirty million Spanish speakers in the United States. Fred has a skill in abundant supply. He should also exercise it with greater care.

    .-.-.
    Cuernavaca, Morelos, ., marzo 01 de 2005. Cuernavaca, Morelos, 2 de marzo de 2005. (Rocío Sánchez-enviada/NotieSe) El marco jurídico mexicano reconoce la capacidad de los y las menores de edad para consentir una relación sexual, explicó el abogado Pedro Morales Aché, director de Medilex (Consultoría Médico Legal) y especialista en derechos sexuales y reproductivos. A pesar de ello, el tema de la sexualidad adolescente es comúnmente visto desde la perspectiva del derecho civil, lo que significa un lastre, pues considera que el menor de edad tiene menos derechos que un adulto. Por ello es necesario mirar desde la perspectiva de los derechos humanos.

    Al participar en la mesa “Salud sexual y reproductiva de los adolescentes”, efectuada en el primer día de trabajos del XI Congreso de Investigación en Salud Pública que se celebra en esta ciudad, el ponente sostuvo que en México las leyes reconocen el derecho de los menores a consentir una relación sexual, como puede verse en las definiciones que los Códigos Penales hacen del delito de violación equiparada: en 20 estados se define como una relación sexual entre un adulto y una persona menor de 12 años, en un estado si se hace con alguien menor de 13, en 6 estados si lo hace con alguien menor de 14 años y en 3 estados sólo se señala que sea una persona “impúber” (que no ha llegado a la pubertad).

    Esto significa, continuó Morales Aché, que jurídicamente se reconoce que a partir de estas edades el adolescente ya puede consentir una relación sexual. De lo que se desprende que, si una persona ya tiene edad para consentir la relación, entonces tiene edad para dar su consentimiento y recibir los servicios de salud sexual y reproductiva.
    .-.-.
    Commentary on the legal age of sexual consent by a Mexican lawyer as reported in notiese.org, a Mexican news agency. It would appear that Coulter’s understanding of the law is more closely aligned with reality than Reed’s. But we shouldn’t be scandalized by this; it was only a handful of years ago that the age of sexual consent in Spain was raised from 13 years to 16. Mexico’s laws are a mish-mash of aged code frozen in the amber of political stasis. Nevertheless, legal reform would be futile without significant cultural change.

  195. Funny author, I particularly enjoyed the phonetic spanglish. Mann Coulter, well, it speaks for itself. I don’t consider it to be a human being.

  196. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    I’ve never heard Fred Reed promoting Mexican immigration or denying that Mexicans commit crime. He has however written about how some depictions or claims about Mexico are inaccurate and misleading. I’m not sure why some people regard this as promoting Mexican immigration or denying Mexican crime.

  197. Truth says:
    @Anonymous

    On the other hand, Socrates was a dirty old man who was attracted to young men like Alcibiades and was jailed and sentenced to death for being an annoying pervert

    LOL. Well, it is difficult not to get a slight, Charles Nelson Riley air from the previous little ditty:

    .O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!

    • Replies: @syonredux
  198. Truth says:
    @Sunbeam

    Now, just as another guess, you think this is a bad thing.

    Wrong, I don’t care, if you want to put on a vintage SS uniform and a sharpie moustache and goosestep in McDonalds restrooms, we will still be boys. I probably wouldn’t think you much odder for that than I would otherwise.

    • Replies: @Sunbeam
  199. SBaker says:
    @Carlton Meyer

    I suggest you look at BS’s voting record. Spouting the lies from his soul does not equate to his actions of the past. Bernie is another psychopathic control freak for the little people.

  200. syonredux says:
    @Anonymous

    If you’ve read Plato, you should know that Socrates often criticizes his long-winded interlocutors for spamming the dialogue with extended, sophistic comments and diatribes, sort of the ancient equivalent of spamming up comment threads with long copy-pastes from Wikipedia. So in that respect, you’re not like Socrates, but more like one of his long-winded interlocutors.

    Have to adjust with the times, dear fellow.Most comments here are content-free White Noise.Hence, I play the rebel by including sourced info.

    On the other hand, Socrates was a dirty old man who was attracted to young men like Alcibiades and was jailed and sentenced to death for being an annoying pervert, so maybe that’s what you had in mind.

    Heaven forbid, dear fellow.Socrates was far too chaste.I follow Wilde’s dictum:“The only way to get rid of a temptation is to yield to it.”

  201. syonredux says:
    @Truth

    LOL. Well, it is difficult not to get a slight, Charles Nelson Riley air from the previous little ditty:

    .O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!

    Far too vulgar a fellow.My tastes are much more refined

    • Replies: @Truth
  202. Truth says:
    @syonredux

    Oh, Paul Linde?

    • Replies: @syonredux
  203. […] Ann Coulter and the Manufacture of Pedophilia by Fred Reed […]

  204. Sunbeam says:
    @Truth

    Answer the question. If you are trying use glibness as a deflecting tactic, you aren’t very good at it.

  205. syonredux says:
    @Truth

    Oh, Paul Linde?

    I’m appalled, dear fellow.Linking me to a vulgar TV actor.If I must be likened to something as low as an actor, why not Clifton Webb?

    • Replies: @Truth
  206. Truth says:
    @Sunbeam

    What question did I not answer?

    Just guessing here, but I take it “WN” as you have used it means “White Nationalist?”

    Yes, you are correct, Sir.

    If I chose to be a “White Nationalist,” I gather I should be ashamed. Explain to me why.

    Be ashamed, don’t be ashamed, with all possible respect I don’t give a shit. You are a grown man who can make his own decisions, and it is none of my business.

    Then I’d like for you to explain whether any other identifiable groups seem to stick together, and if they do, you lecture them too, right?

    Yes, groups of people who look alike tend to stick together. Yes, I lecture black people for acting like, soft, feminine, weak, butthurt little simpletons all of the time.

    • Replies: @Sunbeam
  207. Sunbeam says:
    @Truth

    You only get to stay above the fray if someone lets you.

    Most of the time there are two categories: us and them.

    It really doesn’t matter who is us, and it really, really doesn’t matter who is them.

    Suffice it to say, someone is going to whack you, and it probably wouldn’t take too long if relations ever get that poisonous. For being a nail head sticking up if nothing else.

    Or maybe you could go to the top of a mountain and be enlightened. Usually they get away with it there.

    • Replies: @Truth
  208. @Auntie Analogue

    “Hell holes exist in the Third World…but…there probably isn’t one below the Rio Bravo.”
    My dear Mr. Reed, can you say, “Favelas”?

    Because you cross the equator Favelas are actually above the Rio Grande, also he might have been referring to height above sea level

  209. Nobody takes Ann Coulter seriously. She makes her living from outrageous/offensive remarks. She can be quite entertaining with her one liners. I can’t imagine however a whole book.

  210. @Biff

    Its white people that pick it up voluntarily or prisoners involuntarily. We are getting to the point where there are too many non Asian minorities for white people to sustain a 1st world environment.

  211. Truth says:
    @Sunbeam

    “You only get to stay above the fray if someone lets you.”

    That is, unquestionably the WRONGEST thing you have written, in a post full of wrong things.

    You only get pulled DOWN into the fray, if your ALLOW YOURSELF is more like it.

    At some point we all have a question to ask ourselves; “Am I a man or a mouse?”

  212. Truth says:
    @syonredux

    OK, C.W. It is.

    • Replies: @syonredux
  213. SeanT says:

    Anne Coulter has fornicated with several black men. I don’t think she is a racist.

    • Replies: @Truth
  214. Lucius says:
    @Priss Factor

    I do quite a bit of business in Mexico and find this to be the case. It is not so much (in my experience) a case of wanton littering for the sake of littering, as much as it is a societal case of “Me vale madres”… which they most undoubtedly have.

  215. syonredux says:
    @Truth

    OK, C.W. It is.

    Ah, likened to the magnificent Clifton Webb, the man who played Waldo Lydecker in Laura…..

    • Replies: @Existential Confusion
  216. @syonredux

    I was always fond of him in the Mr. Belvedere series

    • Replies: @syonredux
  217. Luke says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    They don’t believe borders and immigration laws apply to them, but we are we to believe that littering is a bridge too far. 😉

    • Replies: @Existential Confusion
  218. syonredux says:
    @Existential Confusion

    I was always fond of him in the Mr. Belvedere series

    Webb was always good, but, to my mind, Laura stands as the summit of his career.Sublime

  219. NickG says:
    @Tim Howells

    Same deal in the Sweden – consensual sex from 12.

    • Replies: @Tim Howells
  220. @NickG

    By all accounts, the age of consent in Sweden is 15. But the debate here is veering off into areas I’m not really interested in. I just wanted to point out that Fred was wrong and Ann Coulter was right on the age of consent in Mexico, which is pretty embarassing given all of Fred’s foaming at the mouth on the issue.

  221. Still the best takedown of Ann Coulter, and I like her:

    Why can’t both Ann and Fred be right? Or both be assholes?

    Ann dug through a bunch of LexisNexis results to find the examples that demonstrate that unrestricted immigration isn’t all ice cream and koala giggles. Fred lived in Mexico for a dozen years or so and can point out that Mexicans aren’t generally disposed to sex with 12-year-olds.

    They both agree that unchecked immigration is a bad deal for the US. They disagree on how disagreeable Mexicans are. Fred has the edge here, as he lives in Mexico, with the caveat that he largely knows Mexicans who can cut it in Mexico.

    I like Ann and Fred for the same reason: they say unpopular things in their own inimitable fashion. I think the two of them would get along swimmingly over wine and the catch of the day.

  222. Retired says:

    That is why there is a disproportionate number of hispanics in my town’s roster of registered sex offenders.
    Any why everything south of Sacramento looks like a scene from Mad Max

  223. A lot of comments here, and I can’t trawl through them all, except to note

    Allan Wall of VDare has a rebuttal to this. Like Reed, he’s married to a Mexican and speaks Spanish. He also lived in Mexico. I’d be interested in Mr. Reed’s response to this:

    http://www.vdare.com/articles/memo-from-middle-america-ann-coulter-right-fred-reed-wrong-on-mexicos-age-of-consent-and-litter?content=violence%20is%20employed,

  224. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Federal Article 261:
    “Whoever, without the purpose of reaching copulation, executes a sexual act with a person younger than twelve years of age or a person who does not have the capacity to understand the meaning of the action or for whatever reason cannot resists or who is obliged to perform it, will be applied a sentence of 2 to 5 years in prison.”

    Reed, an apparent pederast apologist, has clearly not done his homework. The legal age of consent in Mexico is 12 everywhere, with exceptions for the mentally retarded and physically invalid.

    Article 262:
    “Whoever has sex with a person older than twelve and younger than 18, obtaining consent by means of deception, shall receive the penalty of 3 months to 4 years of prison.”

    Further the Jalisco law Reed cites does not prohibit sex with girls from the age of 12-18 as long as they 1) understand what they are doing, 2) aren’t forced into it and could theoretically resist, 3) are not deceived into committing the sex act, and 4) are not “seduced” into committing the act.

    This guy just lost boatloads of credibility. All to shill for these Hispanics bankrupt, crapkulture.

  225. […] is attacking Ann Coulter for “manufacturing” facts about Mexican laws on the age of consent [Ann Coulter and the Manufacture of Pedophilia, Unz Review, July 31, 2015]. This is not the first time Fred Reed has attacked immigration […]

  226. syonredux says:

    Allan Wall’s rejoinder to Fred’s interpretation of age of consent in Mexico:

    http://www.vdare.com/articles/memo-from-middle-america-ann-coulter-right-fred-reed-wrong-on-mexicos-age-of-consent-and-litter

    RE: Jalisco,

    Now, Ron Unz hates it when people quote stuff, but this seems rather pertinent:

    “There are actually three more paragraphs in the Jalisco law that Fred, for some reason, didn’t translate. One says something very critical:

    The indicated crime in section I of the previous paragraph, will be prosecuted by complaint on the part of the offended party or her/his legitimate representative.

    (My emphasis). Here’s where we get down to the real nitty-gritty. Given the vague wording about “deception” and “seduction,” a man who has sex with a teenage girl might or might not be prosecuted, depending upon how the girl (and her family, if they know) feel about it afterwards.

    Basically, if the girl or her parents don’t complain afterwards—then, legally, it’s not a crime!”

  227. Nico says:
    @Fred Reed

    Remember that Mexican law is not based on English common law.

    I also happen to live in a country whose law like Mexico’s is based on Roman Civil Law and the Napoleonic Code. I don’t know what the situation is in Mexico, but in my country of residence – and in at least one other civil law jurisdictions on our border – , selective enforcement of the law is de rigueur. Part of it is because of corruption; part of it is because almost EVERYTHING proceeds from code and there are just too darn many laws in the first place.

    (EVEN SO, my country of residence and our aforementioned neighbor enjoy significantly higher standards of living and, by any qualitative account, lower crime rates than does Mexico.)

    The point is, even if we COULD grant the benefit of the doubt to Mexican law, the actual power of the RULE of that law could still be so weak that a great, great many more dastardly deeds go unpunished than even in the States.

    But I’m not so sure we CAN grant that benefit of the doubt. Here’s why:

    I have also talked to three Mexican attorneys, two of them specializing in human rights to include the current subject matter and one an ardent feminist. All regarded the age-twelve assertion as nonsense… I asked a friend–she is line for a judgeship–to see whether the phrase “age of consent”–la edad de consentimiento sexual–even exists in Mexican law. She ran a search on the jurisprudential site and nothing came up… I suggest that as a minimum standard, a reader who cannot read Spanish and relies on Yahoo Answers or the many gringo sites that peddle the age-twelve idea should be asked to do some homework. See whether they can find a Mexican governmental site which says the age of consent is twelve. Unless they can show that the examples of the law I gave are in fact not the law, they are just making noise.

    My reasons for mistrusting Ron Unz on this matter are as follows:

    1. He asks us to cite specific statutes and laws and yet cites none himself, only vague and unsourced notions. (The sources he cites further down this page are highly secondary at best.)
    2. More to the point, while he cites lawyers who call “nonsense,” he fails to specify what if any specific correctives they rejoined.
    3. His anecdote about asking his Mexican jurist friend to look up the literal translation of “age of consent” and her coming up with nothing is very revealing. I certainly hope the future judge will not be presiding over any case with international implications, for if she did, it is possible that she could do a great deal of harm through ignoring that many equivalent legal concepts do not translate literally between different jurisdictions. In fact, sometimes the same concept exists in two systems but does not have a proper name AT ALL in one of them.

    Full disclosure: I am not a lawyer but have translated legal documents from English to French for a French general audience. And I do have one example of what I mean. The Texas Penal Code, Section 2, Chapter 9, frequently makes use of the term “deadly force,” often in the context of self-defense. A French lawyer seeking to understand these strictly in terms he learned in law school in France would run into problems, because there is no literal or functional equivalent to “puissance mortelle” (“deadly force”) anywhere in the French code, and a search for “défense de soi” (“self-defense”) comes up equally empty.

    However, the equivalent concept of self-defense as a justification for corporeal or material harm inflicted on another DOES exist in the French code. It is simply called légitime défense (literally, legitimate defense). And while there is no quip equivalent to deadly force, article 122-5 of the French penal code DOES provide for prosecutorial immunity for the use of such force in self-defense in certain circumstances. (It’s not nearly broad enough, but that’s another topic for another day.)

    Again, I am not a lawyer, I do not speak Spanish, I have not examined any article of Mexican law in any detail and therefore I do not pretend to have resolved any question on this topic. However, I do think I have illustrated the ways in which Unz’s arguments lack the same legal precision and technicity that he requests of others in this sort of discussion. This being his web site, he is of course at liberty to request and to post as he likes; however, I would advise him on a purely friendly level that when he goes so far as to attempt to shoot down specific arguments without adhering to the standards he has himself promulgated, he harms his own credibility, and aggravates many commentators whose presence in these discussions he apparently wishes to encourage. Just a thought.

  228. jay says:

    The fact that Ann Coulter calls this pedophilia. Belies the fact that she does not even understand what pedophilia means.

    Which is an abnormal attraction to prepubescent children.

    And in biblical times 12 years 6 months is the age when menarche occurs and girls transition into womanhood.

    http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/marriage_age.htm

    I wonder why God does not speak out against this practice like homosexuality,incest and bestiality.

  229. Ryan says:
    @Isabella

    Shall we start with Americas’ “superior ethnic culture” that included a totally unprovoked attack on Mexico with the theft of 1/3rd of it’s land?

    What upside down world do you live in where the country that had its land taken is superior to the country that took the land?

  230. […] Ann coulter and the manufacture of pedophilia – the unz review […]

  231. TWS says:
    @Hippopotamusdrome

    The Guatemalans in my town are the worst offenders in that sense. I had to walk my daughter to the store because they would stare and mutter under their breath at each other. Plenty of wives and girlfriends starting arriving and they would have a child that could only have been born when they were 12 or 13 (I worked social services so I knew the ages of the family members). Perhaps they were lying about their age. They typically lied about everything else to get services.

  232. @iSteveFan

    I entirely sympathize, but then the same comment could be made with regard to the United States and everything west of the Appalachians to the Mississippi.

    Britain already had legal title to all of that, ceded by France, and their scheme to annex some of it to their also just ceded-by-France province of Quebec [mainly the Ohio Country] and preserve some for the Indians therein was a huge offense to the amour propre of the colonists, cited as a grievance in the Declaration of Independence. Apparently the colonists considered it right and proper to not only claim freedom and self-government for themselves, but freedom to govern other people in land that was not yet theirs. The United States acquired title to the land west to the Mississippi, from Britain, only in the Treaty of Paris ending the war.

    At least the barely Hispanicized, hardly settled Indian Country of northern New Spain had actually been administered from Mexico City during the imperial era. It’s not as though it was administered by Spain separately, from Havana for example. So when Mexico declared independence, its maximal claims at least corresponded with the territory of the Viceroyalty that it was overthrowing. And they were recognized borders.

    America just claimed whatever it wanted, whether or not part of the original colonies. They even thought Quebec should be theirs for the taking.

    On the other hand, there is perhaps greater truth in the argument that Mexico’s claims were fatuous in their own right. The Mexican criollo elite based in the south aimed to take their territory out of the Spanish empire and just assumed that the north would be their own little empire, notwithstanding the paucity of Spanish settlers, the fairly limited connection between these and the elites of the valley of Mexico and its vicinity, the failure of Spain to actually conquer the territory on the ground, or of MExico to do so after independence, etc.

    So if one does not automatically assume that the independence of Mexico entitles it to all Spanish imperial claims in the viceroyalty of New Spain [once upon a time it administered the Philippines], one notes the failure to establish rule on the ground, and notes the relative absence of any settlers from Mexico, their claims were pretty formulaic.

    And the Hispanic people who actually lived in those lands were still there after annexation. Why should Mexicans whose ancestors never lived there have a claim on them?

  233. Mr. Reed,

    You are correct about the legal codes of the states of Mexico. No one who has traveled in Latin America would believe that rubbish from Ms. Coulter. I too have traveled in Mexico, and while I am less fond of it than you, I do agree that there are many beautiful Mexican cities full of art and culture. My personal favorite is Merida.

    What I would like to submit for your consideration is that America is not receiving the best and the brightest of Mexico. Mexico has a growing economy and the best and brightest have no reason to hop the border. What we are getting is the ash and trash of Mexico (and Central America). If Mexico was in a more cooperative mood, I am sure we’d find a large percentage of illegal aliens have criminal records in both Mexico and the United States. Mexico wishes to bid “Adios” to such people and who could blame them.

    The only part of your article I actually feel offended by is your characterization of the wonderful nation of Belize as a “third world hellhole”. I find it hard to believe you would say this unless your travels in Belize were limited to the “economic free zone” outside of Chetumal or a cruise layover in the dive bars of Belize City. I would much rather retire to Belize where I can actually own real property outright, transact my daily business in English, and be surrounded by wonderful people who do not hate the gringo.

  234. Dantheman says:

    Ann Coulter had it right but it’s not politically correct to state it. There’s no way that all those “hard working, honest,Catholic criminals” from 3rd world Mexico or Latin America would ever “rob the cradle” and “GET EM BEFORE THE HAIR DOES”. Come on now; routine practice for girls to be mothers by the time they’re 13 in Spanish speaking cultures. Look at how many sexual predators our jails in USA are holding that are of “hispanic” descent, and tell me that there is no correlation between culture and this. I live in Lehigh Acres, Fl. and see older hispanic males with very young “chicas” all the time. Ignoring morality won’t make it go away……maybe more jails is the answer, or castration/sterilization.

  235. MEH 0910 says:

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