The Unz Review - Mobile
A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media
 BlogviewFred Reed Archive
Affirmative Action and the American Mind: If Any
🔊 Listen RSS
Email This Page to Someone

 Remember My Information



=>
shutterstock_51160618

Bookmark Toggle AllToCAdd to LibraryRemove from Library • BShow CommentNext New CommentNext New ReplyRead More
ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
AgreeDisagreeLOLTroll
These buttons register your public Agreement, Disagreement, Troll, or LOL with the selected comment. They are ONLY available to recent, frequent commenters who have saved their Name+Email using the 'Remember My Information' checkbox, and may also ONLY be used once per hour.
Ignore Commenter Follow Commenter
Search Text Case Sensitive  Exact Words  Include Comments
List of Bookmarks

“Affirmative action” means hiring people because they can’t do the job well. Near-synonyms are “diversity,” meaning groups that cannot do the job well, and “inclusiveness,” which means seeking people who you know cannot do the job well. These underpin American society, and have ruined education. For some time the sciences seemed less susceptible to the prevailing enstupidation because mathematics would present an impenetrable barrier to the the insufficiently bright. This, astonishingly, is changing. The sciences are being dumbed down to–are you surprised?–spare the feelings of included affirmative diversity.

Which somewhat curiously brings us to international politics and an aspect of scientific schooling that does not appear in the mainstream press: Psychometrists, people who endeavor to measure intelligence, universally agree that the Chinese are more intelligent than Eurowhites. So are the Koreans and Japanese. Since for the most part psychometrists are themselves white, their conclusions presumably do not spring from racial chauvinism. The Chinese advantage is measured at around five IQ points. This is not great but makes a considerable difference at the high end of the distribution.

As a matter of observable–if, to many, unwelcome–fact, virtually all of the work in STEM fields (science, technology, engineering, and mathematics) in America is done by whites. Blacks contribute nothing and Hispanics, to date anyway, very little. For reasons of politics we must pretend not to notice. When a piano is falling toward one’s head, one may pretend that it is not, but not for long. The arrival of the piano will ensure this.

America’s prosperity and place in the world very much depend on invention and excellence in the STEM fields. Boeing sells airliners, and provides jobs to Americans, only because its airliners are technically equal to those of AirBus. A lowering of technical capacity will have unfortunate consequences for the country.

America’s whites number at about 200 million, the Han Chinese of China about a billion–five times as many.

Beijing understands perfectly that technological virtuosity is crucial to the country’s well being. It spends heavily, and successfully, on increasing China’s performance. Those who follow such things note the speed of the the advance. A fully developed China will be able to deploy several times as many researchers and engineers, these being at least as intelligent as America’s, on problems of its choosing. Numbers count. They will count more as time goes by.

This strongly suggests that, unless Washington starts a major war to prevent it, or China collapses from within, the future is in the East. It also suggests that the United States would be well advised to do all it can to maintain its competitiveness for as long as it can. Instead it seems to be committing imperial harakiri, deliberately lowering the quality of education in all fields at all levels.

America’s suicide note: How Identity Politics is Harming the Sciences, by Heather Mac Donald. It is long but well worth reading. It documents the systematic lowering of intellectual standards in the sciences to increase the numbers of women and underperforming minorities. This, as she makes clear at length, is strongly supported by the federal government. A few examples:

“Entry requirements for graduate education are being revised. The American Astronomical Society has recommended that Ph.D. programs in astronomy eliminate the requirement that applicants take the Graduate Record Exam (GRE) in physics, since it has a disparate impact on females and URMs….” (These are “Underrepresented Minorities.”)

“Mathematical problem-solving is being deemphasized in favor of more qualitative group projects; the pace of undergraduate physics education is being slowed down so that no one gets left behind.”

“A typical INCLUDES grant from October 2017 directs $300,000 toward increasing Native American math involvement by incorporating “indigenous knowledge systems” into Navajo Nation Math Circles.”

“The National Institutes of Health are another diversity-obsessed federal science funder. Medical schools receive NIH training grants to support postdoctoral education for physicians pursuing a research career in such fields as oncology and cardiology. The NIH threatens to yank any training grant when it comes up for renewal if it has not supported a sufficient number of “underrepresented minorities” (URMs).”

“Medical school administrators urge admissions committees to overlook the Medical College Admission Test (MCAT) scores of black and Hispanic student applicants and employ “holistic review” in order to engineer a diverse class. The result is a vast gap in entering qualifications.”

Mac Donald goes on to tell of school after school accepting diversity with credentials well below those of real students, of schools dropping the GRE requirement because it makes obvious that in STEM fields women and minorities are not performing as desired. (“Minorities” always means “poorly performing minorities.” Chinese, Japanese, Koreans and so on don’t count.)

The comparatively young may be so steeped in such corrupted pedagogy that they do not know how the sciences were formerly taught. A description:

I went to a small Southern school, Hampden-Sydney College, of respectable but not astonishing credentials. I believe the pre-dumbing-down SATs were a bit over 1100. This was before social justice had replaced competence as a reason for study. Freshmen were expected to be fully literate and know algebra cold. Remedial courses would have been thought crazy. If you needed them, you needed to be somewhere else. In any event, if you had graduated from high school without being able to read, you were unlikely to learn.

Freshman chemistry at H-S–much like freshman chemistry in other schools I suppose–was not a cooperative shared learning experience that avoided unnecessary facts. It did not exist to avoid disturbing heartwarming but dim-witted minorities. It was–boom!–s-p hybrid bonding orbitals, resonance in benzene rings, the wave equation del-squared psi and a bunch of constants, probability densities, quantum degeneracy, equilibrium constants, Pivnert the ideal gas equation, the mathematics of a mass spec, the Krebs cycle, and endless problems: 2.4 grams of phlogiston anhydride are dissolved in 2 liters of 2,4-diethyl-polywannacrackerine. What are the products and the weights and molarities of each at equilibrium?

ORDER IT NOW

It was real chemistry, sink or swim, and most of us swam because we were looking at med school or graduate work. If there had been affirmative-action students–”students”–most of the material would have had to be eliminated. Mathematical illiterates do not balance redox equations or interpolate four-place log tables which, in those slide-rule days, we did.

Pop quiz. Take out a sheet of paper. Question: Are Chinese students, there or here, studying de-mathematized semi-chemistry for reasons of identity proportionality? Or are they, at every high-end university or elite high school in America, eating the white kids alive?

The same madness appears below the level of college. Walter Williams writing of the 2017 National Assessment of Educational Progress in America: “Only 37 percent of 12th-graders tested proficient or better in reading, and only 25 percent did so in math. Among black students, only 17 percent tested proficient or better in reading, and just 7 percent reached at least a proficient level in math.”

What?

Affirmative action in the sciences needs to be scrapped. For everybody. The purpose of studying astrophysics should not be to make social-justice warriors feel good about themselves. If women do not do well at engineering mathematics, let them become neurosurgeons.

Fred Reed is a retired news weasel and part-time sociopath living in Mexico with his wife and three useless but agreeable street dogs.

(Republished from Fred on Everything by permission of author or representative)
 
Hide 389 CommentsLeave a Comment
Commenters to Ignore...to FollowEndorsed Only
Trim Comments?
    []
  1. It’s worth noting that Japan seems to have topped out at no more than 20% of US elite level scientific output; South Korea, at well less than 10%.

    Consequently, Chinese scientific output may top out at no more than double that of the US, despite having more than quadruple the population.

    Of course this doesn’t apply so much if the US continues to decline, due to adverse demographic changes and SJWization.

  2. @Anatoly Karlin

    How much of this scientific output is actually of any consequence? And of that which is of any consequence, are the gains captured by America? You know, those sneaky oriental copycats and all that.

    Of more import may be the achievements in engineering, which can be crudely quantified by triadic patent grants. Intellectual property revenues, less media and brands, are also relevant.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    , @Biff
  3. Maybe Sheldon Cooper was right when he characterized MIT as little more than a trade school.

    • Replies: @Big AL
    , @Kratoklastes
  4. TheJester says:

    Fred, an excellent article.

    However, haven’t you heard? A female scientist has declared that it’s time to stop arguing about “facts” in science (you know, having recourse to evidence) and reach a consensus about what are scientific “facts”. The focus will be on consensus rather than research.

    This sounds like the LIKE button on Facebook. You count up the number of LIKES on an issue … and at some point, there is consensus; it becomes a “fact”. Of course, we know we don’t even have to count the number of LIKES to know most outcomes: there is no such thing as race; gender is a social construct; differences in IQ are attributable to the accidents of nutrition and medical care. “Facts”, therefore, reflect the social conditions of the ongoing class, race, and gender struggles. To understand “science”, one has to first understand the struggles.

    I know a number of men of high intelligence (some of them on the Unz Review) who have stated that women tend to be conformists. This helps us understand their worldview. But, seriously! Isn’t it about time that scientists stopped arguing and started conforming to a consensus about what are and what are not “scientific facts”? Why are people being so difficult?

    On second thought, didn’t the Soviet Union try something like this? Wasn’t it called “Soviet Science” to make sure it reflected the social conditions of the class struggle? Only “scientists” who recognized this and conformed to the political consensus were allowed to practice.

    Here we go again …

    • Replies: @sayless
  5. How can any American kid, white, black, or Hispanic compete with a Chinese student when there are Friday night football games, and Saturday night bar scenes to attend. Would you, Fred, could you spend your whole weekend studying mathematics and chemistry at the expense of beautiful, provocative, sultry, flirtatious, tempting and irresistible young American women. If you were a youngster in today’s America?

  6. Blacks contribute nothing and Hispanics, to date anyway, very little

    Wait, what? Who is this writer and what have you done with Fred Reed? He loves to tell us about First World Mexico, about how they know how to do stuff like operate and repair ATM machines. (When they’re not kidnapping people using them I guess)

    If this is Reed, is he backtracking?

  7. @Bragadocious

    a) Mr. Reed wasn’t paying attention and hit [SUBMIT] too quickly.

    b) Mrs. Reed is too busy to be on the internet this week.

    c) Mr. Reed means the hispanics in his country, not America. They’ve not been sending their best, but we should keep letting them break in, per Mr. Reed.

  8. Herman says:
    @Bragadocious

    Are you guys men or girlie men with your snarky remarks? What a couple of self-satisfied imbeciles.

    • Agree: byrresheim
    • Replies: @Chuck U Farley
  9. Perhaps there is a market for STEM universities outside the U.S. that will admit exclusively on merit and no other criteria. Assuming that China does not collapse from within (they have a seriously over-leveraged banking system), is it not possible that American students might try to get into Chinese and other Asian universities around 2035 because the diversicrats have utterly destroyed ours?

    • Replies: @J. Dart
    , @bomag
    , @JMcG
  10. …and Hispanics, to date anyway, very little

    Got any hard data on that?

    • Replies: @Chris Mallory
  11. Good point in the article, but I would add that it isn’t just smartness, competency, rigor that made the US a powerhouse, it was also the freedom and spirt of creativity and entrepreneurship. And that, too, is being strangled in the West. However, it may be just as strangled in the East. China is a totalitarian state that just recently has given everyone a social credit score so that they may be monitored and punished for thoughts and speech that is not acceptable.

    This is hardly a recipe for freewheeling free thought and innovation. The Asians have always been very good at copying the innovations created in the West. Smarter or not, they are followers.

  12. @Thorfinnsson

    Well, as you point out, measuring this is hard. Patents statistics exist ofc but as you’re well aware they are inflated by blatant, mass-scale IP hogging in the East Asian countries.

    In any case, since whites seem to have an advantage in innovation, while Asians are more proficient in improvement, all else equal it would appear that a technologically stagnant world will be one in which Asians are relatively more powerful than they would otherwise be.

    • Replies: @anon
    , @Rdm
    , @Anonymous
  13. @Bragadocious

    It’s not all that dissonant from the rest of his work.

    Reed – Hispanics create functional societies, most of Latin America is perfectly fine to live in, Hispanic crime in the US is not a major problem.

    - all correct

    Reed – The US needs to imports tens of millions more Hispanics [insert some boomer strawman argument about how stupid and uninformed Alt Righters are]

    - not correct, but not incorrect either; just an emotional, “truthy” argument that derives from Reed’s specific brand of Mexican nationalism.
    It’s a nationalism that I find very bizarre and frankly cargo cultish – why on Earth would any self-respecting Mexican want to center his nationalism around the United States and what those pendejos do and think? – but we all have our ideological eccentricities.

    Reed – “Blacks contribute nothing and Hispanics, to date anyway, very little”

    - also correct. Also, ultimately Reed is an IQ realist, and while say an 8 point IQ difference certainly doesn’t preclude civilization, it does mean scientific innovation will be very low in these groups due to the Law of Smart Fractions.

  14. Wally says:

    said:
    “so that they may be monitored and punished for thoughts and speech that is not acceptable.”

    You could just as easily be talking about Europe and the US.

    “Smarter or not, they are followers.”

    Can’t say that still holds true. Why would they want to follow The West over the cliff.

    Like the Russians, they can just sit back and watch us destroy ourselves without lifting a finger.

    Cheers.

  15. Dr. Doom says:

    China has no sense of honor. Their business is China. Their bank is Chinese. The Rothschild Monopoly is hitting the Great Wall of “you not Chinese muthafucka”. They sell missiles to Iran. They make deals with Russia.

    IS IT GOOD FOR CHINA?

    Chinese keep agreements as long as it BENEFITS THEM. After that. Poof!
    No contract exists.
    Sure there are tribe there. Not enough.
    They don’t call them the “Jews” of Asia for NOTHING.

    THE WHITE MAN CAN LEARN SOMETHING FROM CHINA.

    Loss of habitat, and Anti-White lawfare. The ethnic scattering of Whites was due to their success.
    Watch it go away when the old lesson comes into play.
    THE COMMON THREAT TO ALL.

    EXCELLENT. Not the Roman Legions. Not the Empires. Not the Economic Ties.
    It didn’t bring all the Whites into ONE HOUSE.

    You’d be AMAZED what a COMMON THREAT TO ALL CAN DO.

    HOLY ROMAN EMPIRE, BATMAN!!!

    • Replies: @Sunbeam
  16. “Boeing sells airliners, and provides jobs to Americans, only because its airliners are technically equal to those of AirBus. A lowering of technical capacity will have unfortunate consequences for the country.”

    Don’t worry, the Europeans are on the way to getting on the dumbing-down bandwagon.

    A couple years back I had dinner with a couple older German who, very much enamoured with Mutti M., expressed great joy that Germany was getting so many good doctors and engineers from Syria. That was the party-line broadcast on ARD, ZDF, N24, etc.

    Now that they have several million migrants, they have to do something with them. They can’t all go to Deutsche Post.

  17. Biff says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    I really am enjoying that fake Yeti cup I paid four dollars for. When the Orientals start copycating monopolies, I’ll start to worry then.

  18. @Anatoly Karlin

    … most of Latin America is perfectly fine to live in,

    No, Mr. Karlin, most of Latin America is NOT perfectly fine to live in. It IS for the 1-5% wealthy people, the ones you may know from there. I know quite a few very bright guys FROM Latin America. Did you notice I wrote “FROM” Latin America, for emphasis. Why would 30,000,000 people from Mexicao and C. America alone have come here, if Latin America is a “perfectly fine place to live”?

    Most people are poor and besides some of the bright spots like Uruaguay, parts of Argentina and Chile (that would have previously included Caracas, Venezuala before the Commies), it’s just plain 3rd world, meaning not much of a middle class – guys and families that have disposable income to use to improve their communities.

    The economies down there go up and down, Commies and military juntas come and go, and it’s because the general personality traits of the average people don’t consist of honesty and integrity. Those countries are hardly ever run worth a damn – doesn’t that make you wonder why?

    Maybe all you’ve seen are the best parts of the big cities, Mr. Karlin. What I want to emphasize, regarding the writer Fred Reed is that he is living in Mexico as an expat, not a Mexican, on the US Dollar, not the Mexican peso. That’s a nice way to do it until the dollar goes down the toilet (spoiler alert – it will).

    Don’t get me wrong – there’d be plenty of things to appreciate down there as an American leaving the current warmongering US Police State behind. It’s no picnic down there living as an actual Latin American, either. The grass is always greener, Gringo.

    • Replies: @Negrolphin Pool
    , @wrd9
    , @Wally
  19. @Anatoly Karlin

    My opinion on Fred Reed’s newfound Mexicanity and promotion of all things Mexico is this: It make him feel lots better about his decision to leave the US almost completely behind (he has one or more children here).

    Additionally, he’s no spring chicken and its easy to forget things… things like what does make Americans (NOT American Feral Gov’t, just plain Americans) good people. Hey, you read the internet all day long and see how you feel about people. Fred can go outside and hang with Mexicans and enjoy it, but all he knows about Americans anymore is from reading political dealings, websites, tweets, what-have-you and that all can paint whatever bleak kind of picture you want it to.

    Another thing is that Mr. Reed’s dealing with US Feral Gov’t are most likely with Immigration/Customs agents upon entry, and worse yet, the TSA. They are not the funnest bunch, nor the brightest, and the impression is indeed of a police state that nobody in his right mind would want to live in. I don’t want to deal with ANYONE from the Feral Gov’t but the TSA is tops.

    My warning to Fred and other ex-pats is this: Put your money in other currencies including REAL MONEY and/or get the wife to buy some property. Make sure you’ve got a deep tan for when the shit hits the fan.

  20. anon[161] • Disclaimer says:

    No, Mr. Karlin, most of Latin America is NOT perfectly fine to live in. It IS for the 1-5% wealthy people, the ones you may know from there.

    If you have traveled south of the border, you see how people live and what they must do to survive. The average keyboard warrior does not appreciate how daily life near a favela, colonia or shantytown or other area can make one flee to the relative safety behind high walls, sturdy gates and alarm systems. If only there were some way to see a Google Street View of those casas y avenidas. Unzistas from Mexico and South America please weigh in.

  21. Blacks contribute nothing and Hispanics, to date anyway, very little

    “To date anyway”?!

    Fred has really jumped the shark. It seems that he’s now a believer in the magic dirt theory, at least as regards Hispanics. Yep, any second now, these people are going to transmogrify into doctors and engineers.

    • Replies: @Wally
  22. Big AL says:
    @Hannah Katz

    What do you mean litte more than a trade school? Every thing in life as far as work is concerned is a trade or a profession .What you are impling is some people are much more important than others maybe like you.

  23. @Anatoly Karlin

    why on Earth would any self-respecting Mexican want to center his nationalism around the United States and what those pendejos do and think?

    It’s not just Reed; did you check out the recent debate between the four presidential candidates in Mexico? It was all Yanqui, all the time. You’d think they had no other problems besides the Orange Hitler. I think one candidate briefly mentioned Mexican government corruption. There was an awkward silence. Then it was back to…more Trump bashing.

    • Replies: @Wally
  24. Joe862 says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    I find the claim that 1,000,000,000 Chinese have average iq of 106 hard to believe. I haven’t spent a lot of time researching but from what I can find the average Asian American has an iq around 106. I don’t find that hard to believe at all since so many of the ones that come here are among the elites in their countries of origin. Is it really possible that china, with a gdp per capita of 8k, has a really good idea of what the average iq of essentially all of their school children is? Are we talking about an average where a lot of the rural poor aren’t tested? Is it likely that the Chinese government knows and is telling the truth about this when they don’t tell the truth about anything else?

    • Replies: @Saxon
  25. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says:

    It will just amount to a bit of tokenism.

    Add a Negro here and there to show off as the face of black genius.

    But the core operation will be in hands of those who know the stuff.

    It’s about Diversity icing on the cake.

    I mean… would Google really want idiots to do programming?
    No, but it will add just enough spice to show off that it is ‘diverse’.

    • Replies: @Negrolphin Pool
  26. KenH says:

    I was watching FOX about twenty minutes ago and lo and behold Tucker Carlson was debating a Democratic strategist named (((Goodstein))) about discrimination based on race. It appeared Tucker was trying to bait Goodstein into admitting that discrimination against whites is wrong and immoral. But no, Cucker then started wailing about how Asians are being discriminated against at Harvard based on their race.

    No mention of the fact that if anyone is being discriminated it’s non-Hispanic, non-Jewish whites who are only about 22% of the Harvard student body while being 61% of the general population while Asians are almost 17% of the Harvard student body while only comprising 5% of the general population. Whites used to dominate the Ivy league until race based admissions that ruthlessly discriminate against whites.

    Non-whites made up 51% of Harvard’s incoming freshman class despite being only 40% of the general population:

    https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2017/08/02/harvard-incoming-class-majority-nonwhite/5yOoqrsQ4SePRRNFemuQ2M/story.html

    Whites are getting shafted pretty much everywhere in “white privileged” America.

  27. sayless says:
    @TheJester

    Women are conformists

    I’m not. I asked around.

    • Replies: @dcite
    , @myself
  28. dcite says:
    @sayless

    Women are conformists

    I’m not. I asked around

    .

    Moi non plus. But people don’t admire non-conformity in women and girls. Women may want a safer place because of kids and their own limitations. But quite frankly, men don’t want wild, wild wimmen.
    Or at least not too often.

  29. Plainman says: • Website

    Much of the “work in STEM fields (science, technology, engineering, and mathematics) in America is done by” people whose ancestors were Asians from India, China, and Japan. These important contributions are from non-whites.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  30. “But quite frankly, men don’t want wild, wild wimmen.”

    Only for an evening or two. Month tops.

  31. J. Dart says:
    @Abelard Lindsey

    In the long term, maybe. In the short term, right now lots of non-Western universities have affirmative action of their own for international students, to boost their US News & World Report & Times Higher Education rankings (since the rankings started to place more weight on “proportion of international students” as a proxy for quality of education), and it’s really not good for their brand names.

  32. j says: • Website

    I understand Fred’s facts and arguments, but I do not share his conclusions or recommendations. The dilution the science content of science classes and the consequent granting of fake science diplomas is (1) unavoidable and (2) does not harm real science. (1) it is a necessary price to relax social stress and promote social peace. No country can allow having a large segment of its population excluded from elite positions, and there must an open way to honorably co-opt some of them. (2) The dumb scientist do little actual harm, because they are dumb per definition, and they are politely distanced from positions where they could do actual harm, of which there are few to none in research fields. Personally, I have experienced this things twice in my life. Once in Communist Hungary, when the teacher introduced to our elite class a group of blond children and made them sit in the front benches. We were told to be friendly and help these newcomers, because they were from proletarian politically correct families (we were not). They did not reduce the individual IQ of any of the class, and averages mean nothing. Mr Reed, be a generous Southern gentleman, not a bitter curmudgeon.

  33. http://www.archimedes-lab.org/numeral.html

    https://www.ancient-code.com/the-origin-of-the-number-zero/

    Neither a white or western contribution

    Well,

    I will be interested to see what else the Mrs MacDonald has come up with. Her last statistical account claiming a war on police and its link to the “Ferguson effect” fell apart and it do by the numbers.

    Very small sample size, false comparisons between cities, over generalizations, counter examples in larger numbers that challenged her own and most importantly, the overall trend in dropping crime stats across the board. Not to mention that officer related deaths as the result of murder are relatively small and have been stable for more than teats with the occasional spike. And most importantly amounts to —- less than 1% (being very generous here).

    But it seems we are to new ground in statistical analysis.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
    , @Tantor
  34. Realist says:
    @RealAmerican

    How can any American kid, white, black, or Hispanic compete with a Chinese student when there are Friday night football games, and Saturday night bar scenes to attend.

    The intelligent ones will.

  35. Realist says:

    ….phlogiston…

    Phlogiston??? When did you go to school? Did you know Johann Joachim Becher ?

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Fran800
  36. That is a great photo. having understood that women have been the actual beneficiaries of AA, photo depicts the the flip game that whites play in justifying the very game they complain – despite how it benefits them — that undercut one of few programs of redress that made sense in its original form –

    They slip in the black women as if to say — we being fair. seasoning at its most cynical – but effective, nonetheless.

  37. @j

    i would challenge the “unavoidable” press here. Since I bemoan the gutting of AA as intended and as originally designed. It is false that any program admit unqualified blacks or lowered their standards to admit them. what traditional educational facilities had done was fail to recruit qualified african americans — their policies were insular. And in many cases of was revealed that qualified blacks were dismissed on the basis of color. In other-words, they recruited whites above qualified blacks , even unqualified whites were accepted. The goal of AA was never to lower standard.

    And while it has been great excuse among whites for all manner of complaint — there was never a demand for lowered standards — that has been done in multiple arenas for women and by women, i am speaking largely of white women. Your press reinforces the unqualified black mantra to blame for lowered standards — despite the press that it doesn’t matter.

    Whether or not it hurts science or the society in general is hard to weigh — it may very well help, but to know we would need to examine the results and impact of the work of the so called “dumb” scientists from the smart scientists. i am not convinced that the ozone layer “bubbling oceans” scare scenario was the work of dumb scientists of smart scientists.

    The price for social peace is to avoid artificial barriers to full participation — fairness. I tend to think people get it — all things being fair – will not get equal returns for everyone. The problem has been our failure to work towards “all things being fair.”

    I can’t give one kid a gocart with four wheels and another kid a cart with two and claim that upon entering the competition — it’s fair and proceed to make all manner of excuse why it is fair while ignoring the obvious disparity and worse blaming the kid who was denied access to building a car with four wheels wheels.

  38. Flavius says:

    Fred calling it like he sees it. I see it that way too. 50 years later it isn’t necessary to produce reams of data to demonstate to someone standing in the woods that those are trees in them there woods: the evidence abounds. Affirmative Action is racism pure, simple, and on its face. The damage it has caused, not least to the victims it was gussied up to help, has been immense; and by the way, where intellectual work is concerned, it isn’t just the STEM disciplines that have been affected, all of them have been affected, the literary arts, the musical arts, the plastic arts, the whole damn shooting match.

    • Replies: @HallParvey
  39. @j

    I think there are plenty os salience here in applying this analysis to something like social “saftey nets”.

  40. @EliteCommInc.

    The goal of AA was never to lower standard[s].

    Yes, it was. It was quite obvious at the time. The fact that standards would be lowered was pointed out, quite specifically, by the opposition. That standards WOULD be lowered was acknowledged, but deemed necessary for the period of transition — which would be brief (laugh track here).

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  41. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says:

    Greg Cochran Interview

  42. MarkinLA says:
    @Plainman

    Obviously, you have never worked in engineering or any STEM field for that matter. Asians are over represented as a percentage of the population in the general STEM workforce but not at the higher levels where patents and new technologies come from.

    • Replies: @Plainman
  43. MarkinLA says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    Oh please, use some common sense. Yes, the original intent of AA was to supposedly find all these diamonds in the rough that people on the left actually thought existed. When it became obvious that such diamonds were scarcer than hens teeth, nobody was going to admit failure so quotas and lowering of standards had to happen or the whole thing would have collapsed.

    You keep repeating this idiot blank slate nonsense. The reality is that blacks are generally deficient in the traits that are needed to succed in the hard sciences – period. Not everybody can do college level calculus, let alone mathematics at a level higher than that. The percentatge of people who can are higher in northeast Asians than in whites with blacks way down the list. This is obvious if you have ever visited a building where the mathematics classes are taught at a university.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  44. MarkinLA says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    Are you some kind of an idiot? Do you have any background in mathematics? Yes, some contributions to mathematics have come from places other than Europe. However, the vast amount of advances in mathematics have come from Europe and European derived civilizations like the US.

    http://www.fabpedigree.com/james/mathmen.htm

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  45. @Anon

    Tom Arnold just estimated the immediate loss to ABC for its kneejerk cancellation of Rosanne Barr’s show at $1 billion.

    And we just watched Google never even blink as it drove straight into the headlights of a possible class action lawsuit and a guaranteed one from James Damore.

    Diversity’s altar must run with fresh blood no matter the cost.

    • Replies: @Negrolphin Pool
  46. @Achmed E. Newman

    Right. However true it may be that most of Latin America isn’t a Juarez torture house, it seems there should at least be an asterisk footnoting that countries like Guatemala, Honduras and El Salvador have essentially amounted to 500-year-long Mayan sacrifice rituals writ large. Nice digs for psychopathic caudillos and hitmen but no kind of place to raise a family, at least not of humans.

  47. @Negrolphin Pool

    That reminds me that the original Hebrew spelling of Moloch was apparently MLK.

  48. @manorchurch

    No.

    that’s what institutions did all on their own.

    The original mandate was to consider whether the hiring, recruiting and training protocols had been fair. The so calld quota system we have today wasn’t even guaranteed to ensure a certain percentage of a protected group was hired. But instead whether said percentage had been including in the pool of applicants. There was no mandate to lower standards. in fact, had the original protocols been maintained. It would placed downward pressure on improving the qualifications with local, regional, state and national hiring practices. in other words pressed for ensuring qualified applicants were sought and developed, among two specific groups, initially, blacks and native americans – because the model was family systems, there was emphasis placed on the males as heads of households.

    Now this policy was primarily intended and applied to public positions. But what became immediately clear is that all throughout the US the discrimination from consideration had been persistent and deep in private and public sectors.

    Note: I am not making any claims that there were plenty(?) of successful blacks prior to the civil rights actions.

    What existed had not been altogether a conscious practice but born out policies and understandings prior to slavery. If the practices in the US military were unashamed open gambits to hinder blacks 00 it’s not hard to comprehend what occurred throughout nonmilitary affiliated and private sector opportunities. The self investigations of companies sent them into a panic that they had in fact, arbitrarily not considered black applicant (minority applicants) and some institutions lowered the standards in a bid for corrective action to avoid limitations and sanctions — my view — bad choice.
    But affirmative action did not mandate lowered standards. But in a very slick bait and switch move, Hr departments found an out for dealing discrimination — women counted. In a bid to kill the civil rights southern congressman pressed to include women. That singular choice made all the difference. As soon as hr departments understood its implications they turned their attention to women and predominantly white women. They could make sure women already part of the white majority and power structure, already benefiting could apply be hired and they could avoid the black issue altogether or at least ameliorated the matter substantially.

    I am going to play loosely with these numbers — I think this is somewhat new territory for me. but let’s just pretend that half of the 120 or so white women were competing for affirmative action jobs against the the entire black male population, that be would 60 million competing with 21 million black men total. And that’s not a nuanced calculation, imagine that then compared to hispaincs and asians considered. That utterly made the matter mute if one wanted to avoid color dynamics — and the evidence says they do. A clean bait and switch hitting the diversity quotas without having to bat an eye. And continued blocking the very reason the system was advanced in the first place.
    Then to avoid the indictment, white women taking advantage just glom on to minority women and behold — gambit set in process. And for black men — it’s clear “seasoning” in practice in the modern age. And leveraging black women against black males —

    whites are all to aware of the implications.

    I agree with the laugh track. But the joke has been on black and native american men not whites males. lowered standards most played out in jobs requiring physical labor.

    Again my numbers here are for a broad understanding of how AA worked to benefit whites.

    It was not initially intended to lower standards. I have not found those original designs established some 35 years ago.

    • Replies: @manorchurch
    , @Anon
  49. @MarkinLA

    Since your premise on what i said is incorrect, i will justr say –

    I am not using a blank slate. There would be no way to redress via tabula rosa given the system was already bent — no redress works on tabula rossa

    Redress by definition, grants the system is in need of repair a concept that contradicts a tabula rossa modality.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
    , @JMcG
  50. @MarkinLA

    I think your observations are great.

    But you are dancing in another universe.

    Here’s the premise: blacks have contributed nothing to society.

    So I just took the introduction of the 0 as introduced by hindis (black) and nonwesterners, and other browns (nonwesterners) — noted that singular contribution — demonstrating the premise false and you have built on the same by extolling the contributions of others who benefited from the addition of zero.

    now I am sure Mr reed doesn’t believe that the contribution modes he advanced, but is frustrated by the very tough issues facing whites and a pressed rhetoric about white superiority.

    And of course will advance anything that extols his hispanic favoritism over his former black citizens. i would talk about the inoculations and a host of benefits, heart shunts and stints, transfusions, etc.

    But I think the point is made.

    George Washington Carver seemed to easy

    language

    oy veh.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
    , @Colin Wright
  51. @EliteCommInc.

    It was not initially intended to lower standards. I have not found those original designs established some 35 years ago.

    Intentions are a bitch, with which the road to hell is paved. I never said the intent was to lower standards, but I did observe that the very valid objections raised by the opposition were based on the likelihood it would lower standards.

    Still, AA has been a boon to some, right? Just not a boon to merit, excellence, competence, integrity, etc.

    • Replies: @EliteComminc.
    , @Pericles
  52. @manorchurch

    I am not going to mince words here. it has not been a boon for black, especially black men.

    It was hijacked. and it costs me to make the comments i do on the subject, but the convenient assail against blacks for AA just is unsupportable by the numbers. Worse, republicans who have used this for political maneuvering have been benefiting from since the switch to goodies for whites, all the while decrying and castigating it. they have been happy to import diversity in the diversity, but more for the cheap labor.

    And it is not accurate that that every gain has gone to people who don’t merit said gain. And it does not mean that some blacks have not benefited – they have. The substantial objections were based on unfairness of consideration lower standards or not. Always an issue when considering the question of redress. The early objections were to the civil rights amendment. The quotas argument was completely misconstrued. It had nothing to with actually highering but percentage to population should be considered based on qualifications.

    Long winded way of saying there are plenty of issues regarding polity and blacks citizens — AA is just carting dust — but it sounds good. few have the courage to tell their wives, girlfriends, mistresses and daughters 0 you really are not the aggrieved party.

    “Still, AA has been a boon to some, right? Just not a boon to merit, excellence, competence, integrity, etc.” you have my support to explain that to white women . . . good fortune.

  53. MarkinLA says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    The system was bent by genetics. Sub-Saharan Africa never invented any system of advanced mathematics. Therefore, that part of their brain isn’t as developed as other races. That is why now, no matter what you do, there are far fewer blacks capable of doing high level math as a percentage of the population. You can’t fix that with affirmative action.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  54. MarkinLA says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    Fred is not confusing blacks with all non-whites. He even said Hispanics contribute little, He was talking specifically about American black with sub-Saharan ancestry. In addition, you make too much of the comment about “none”. Yeah, there were a few American blacks who did do some decent work – their percentage of the population is just so low that they are insignificant.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  55. @MarkinLA

    welcome,

    i am not going to granting any uncorroborated data about Africa. Trying untangle the various african civilizations requires more than IQ testing and certainly a better grasp history of the region than understood by Mr Reed, if in fact that is what he believes.

    It never fails that when the premise demonstrated o be flawed, the trump attempt is aha

    but the subsaharans are dumb. First, we know so little about the region before colonialism because — the desert was a massive barrier. But what further defeats the argument is the knowledge that the slaves largely from the region used their skills in architecture, construction and urban planning to wait for it — enhance heating and cooling plantation homes, architecture . . . apparently, you haven’t ever visited a plantation . . . given the knowledge those slaves brought and demonstrated, it’s a bit obtuse that thy didn’t have use of math. Whether any of that was adopted prior to routes past the desert is just an unknown. But one need not be a genius to understand that human civilization doesn’t exist in a vacuum. The early architectural skills — were certainly shared and passed on. As for formal math — practical math works for me. i suspect given the trade routes including those linked to the southwesren coasts of North America — indicates that africans even south of the sahara managed to sail to the oceans. I always thought whites got here first.

    Not knowing the contributions is not the same thing as said contributions not existing.

    http://history-world.org/africa.htm

    When i was in grade school, i had no idea that native americans actually built cities in the hills, and irrigated their farms, etc.

    Ignorance is not the same thing as nonexistence.

    As for math and blacks : I think the evidence is overwhelming that even with discrimination — millions of blacks grasp mathematical concepts. more importantly — very few people need to know math beyond the basics or level one algebra. The qualifications for what one is entitled to is citizenship, not math skills. To wit, let’s make sure we undo the damage of denying equal access and then address what blacks are capable of –

    I am sure the Tuskegee airmen are having a good laugh at Mr. Reeds peculiar ideas. But what this confirms is that the country is in deep need of repair — It;s frightening to understand that millions of US citizens have held these views expressed and at the same rime been responsible for ensuring black citizens be treated as citizens

    200 years of white thinking in full display.

    Note: you do realize that being hispanic is not a skin color — and whoever created the concept as part of color demographics has a serious problem with categorical distinctions. I would have thought Mr Reed would be immediate to point that out as the white brown, dark brown divide is very intense in mexico.

    even someone with my low IQ gets that. In my view Their congress is whiter than our own.

    • Replies: @Pericles
    , @Jesse James
  56. @MarkinLA

    You are more than welcome to tell these men and women based on their contributions they are clearly bot from civilizations below the african desert.

    https://www.thoughtco.com/african-american-inventors-1991278

    https://famous-mathematicians.com/10-famous-black-mathematicians-and-their-contributions/

    http://www.gradeamathhelp.com/black-mathematicians.html

    “Nuts”

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
    , @anonymous
  57. @Anatoly Karlin

    Anatoly Karlin: “Reed – The US needs to imports tens of millions more Hispanics [insert some boomer strawman argument about how stupid and uninformed Alt Righters are]”

    Karlin appears to be a lock-step thinker who reads what he expects rather than what is written. I have said endlessly that mass immigration was a mistake, that America should close its border and assimilate those immigratnts who cannot be deported. This turns into “Fred wants to import millions….” Where does he get this stuff? It is a sort of illiteracy of the higly literate. And confirms my views of Alt-Righters.

  58. anon[204] • Disclaimer says:

    Don’t love China but I do look forward to them giving our self-serving tech plantation owners a run for their money. Bring on the Chinese competitors for Amazon, Google, Facebook, Microsoft, Apple, Uber, AirBnB, Netflix, and take down fecking Starbucks. I’m sick of these self-serving arrogant virtue signaling libtard masters of the universe who do nothing but censor free speech, buy influence in DC and sell out the country by importing cheap foreign labor by the millions. These fifth columnists need a good kick in the pants.

  59. Anon[298] • Disclaimer says:
    @Frederick V. Reed

    Mr. Reed,

    The issue turns on this phrase.

    those immigratnts who cannot be deported

    I and others who are not white nationalists or alt-righters have the distinct impression that this means “all of them– now or in the future”. Of course you may think otherwise, but I do not think an impartial reader would get that idea from your columns. I certainly don’t.

    However, I will keep this comment in mind when reading your columns in future. Perhaps it will change my interpretation.

    Thanks,
    R. Bremner

  60. Truth says:

    Bring on the Chinese competitors for Amazon, Google, Facebook, Microsoft, Apple, Uber, AirBnB, Netflix, and take down fecking Starbucks. I’m sick of these self-serving arrogant virtue signaling libtard masters of the universe who do nothing but censor free speech, buy influence in DC and sell out the country by importing cheap foreign labor by the millions

    .

    …Be careful what you wish for, Sporti-Boy, you just might get it.

    • Replies: @myself
  61. Why don’t we have affirmative action for airline pilots? These pilots could initially be used to ferry government officials flying in private planes (do you hear me, Nancy?). If that worked out well, they could be added as pilots for Hollywood actors, particularly those that take private jets to global warming and anti-second amendment conventions. The possibilities are unlimited, particularly with the expected high turn-over of pilots.

  62. anon[204] • Disclaimer says:
    @cylindrical crown

    Great idea! They should also transport all the msm journalists, anyone from CNN, MSNBC, NYTimes, WaPo, HuffPo, Slate, ESPN, Disney. Plus all the mayors of sanctuary cities, governors of sanctuary states…the entire Seattle city council. Yes, the possibilities are endless. These are also the people who should only be treated by URM doctors when they get sick.

    • Replies: @Mishra
    , @Anon
  63. anon[204] • Disclaimer says:

    The Chinese are flocking to our universities to study STEM, which means our higher ed is still better than theirs, so if our STEM subjects are dumbed down, they get dumbed down too. Maybe human development has peaked. Modern civilization is on its way down. If we can’t all be equally smart, then we must all be equally dumb.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Bill jones
  64. anon[204] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Patents statistics exist ofc but as you’re well aware they are inflated by blatant, mass-scale IP hogging in the East Asian countries.

    I worked in software. It’s mind boggling the kind of stuff we apply for patents for in the US, even the most mundane design change for a scrollbar or a flyout menu will try to apply for a patent. Those who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  65. MarkinLA says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    Did you actually bother to read what the “contributions” of those black mathematicians were? The first black to get a PhD, the first black to get one at … This is hardly the stuff of legend. Plenty of people who nobody cares (or ever hears about) about get PhDs in mathematics. These people are at the same level.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  66. anon[204] • Disclaimer says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    It is false that any program admit unqualified blacks or lowered their standards to admit them.

    Thomas Espenshade’s report on the SAT 450 pt black advantage over Asians and 340 black advantage over whites in college admission has been widely quoted for some time.

    https://www.princeton.edu/~tje/files/files/webAdmission%20Preferences%20Espenshade%20Chung%20Walling%20Dec%202004.pdf

    Another example from Heather MacDonald’s excellent article that Fred Reed linked to in this article:

    https://www.city-journal.org/html/how-identity-politics-harming-sciences-15826.html

    From 2013 to 2016, medical schools nationally admitted 57 percent of black applicants with a low MCAT of 24 to 26, but only 8 percent of whites and 6 percent of Asians with those same low scores, according to Claremont McKenna professor Frederick Lynch.

  67. One of the most pernicious effects of affirmative action is that it effectively reinforces and even justifies the very bias it is intended to offset.

    I saw this happening in my own case when I was selecting a doctor from Kaiser’s staff. I am prejudiced against blacks and make no bones about it, but I have no such feelings concerning Hispanics — at least, Hispanics of the Indian-Spanish persuasion rather than of black-Spanish descent. I mention this only to emphasize what happened anyway.

    As I went scrolling along through the pages of faces, I realized that whatever my feelings, it would be a rather poor idea to select a Hispanic doctor. Why? Because he/she could easily be only marginally qualified or competent but passed along anyway in order to meet affirmative action quotas. I’ve certainly seen that in other fields.

    So my absence of bias notwithstanding, because of the reality of affirmative action, the rational course of action was to select an Asian or White face. In fact, I eventually plumped for an Asian woman, and perfectly agreeable and competent she turned out to be, too.

    Affirmative action may be intended to counteract the effects of bias. In a certain brute-force way, it may even realize that goal to some extent. However, it simultaneously makes bias rational. The beneficiaries of affirmative action are necessarily more likely to be unqualified or incompetent. One can be completely without prejudice and yet find oneself choosing to discriminate because affirmative action makes it make sense.

    • Replies: @Heros
    , @vinteuil
    , @Stan d Mute
  68. Thomm says:

    In other news :

    Ron Unz is winning. The official US Census site indicates California is 72.7% white. Only 37.7% are ‘non-Hispanic White’, but it seems that 90% of Hispanics are now counted as white.

    https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/CA/RHI125216

    And this is just California. Nationwide, the numbers are :

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_the_United_States#Race_and_ethnicity

    73.3% white, with no separate category for ‘Hispanic’. The ‘Other Race’ category of 4.8% obviously comprises the brownest Hispanics, but only the brownest. Further down, you can see that of the 17.1% that are Hispanic, 11.3% are considered ‘white’. So two-thirds of Hispanics in America are considered ‘white’.

    Remember that this has happened in the past before. Whenever the white population drops below 60%, the next-closest group is re-classified as ‘white’ to get the percentage back up to above 80%.

    First it was Irish, then Italians, Jews, and Poles, then Middle Easterners, and now Hispanics.

    • Troll: Stan d Mute
  69. Thomm says:
    @Bragadocious

    If this is Reed, is he backtracking?

    er… Fred Reed is a useful shock troop in Ron Unz’s master plan to destroy White Trashionalists, as described here :

    http://www.unz.com/freed/mexican-wall-blues-and-some-other-stuff/#comment-2345343

    Fred Reed’s specific role is to confuse WNs, ensuring that they self-subdue.

    I am strongly in support of what Ron Unz is doing. The WN wiggers still can’t figure out what is obvious to normal people.

  70. @anon

    I think you might want to read the conversation again.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  71. Alfa158 says:

    The word “wigger” comes from combining “White” and “nigger”. It refers to White people who admire blacks and wish that they were black people. In what respect are White Nationalists people who admire blacks and wish they were black?
    You should look up the definition of a word before you use it.

    • Replies: @Thomm
    , @Anonymous
  72. @MarkinLA

    The point is very simple — apparent;y blacks are capable of upper mathematical concepts, given the number with the aptitude, diligence and or both —

    I suspect that Africans and their descendants from below the Saharan desert have always had that ability and certainly, as demonstrated have that ability today. Now i could quibble with who was first and what not — but bottom line — once the premise is broken – it’s broken.

    Whatever notions about brain capacity and ability is refuted in spades, — no pun intended.

    You have no idea what level they are on — as stated before ignorance is not their lack of contribution or achievement — but your comment they are the same level as everyone else — is humorous. And apparently they are proving the most important contribution knocking down peculiar notions about black brain capacity developed as far back as the 1700′s. The only tragedy is that so many people actually still believe it and have the nerve to teach and repeat it.

    Might want to take a look at the number of people who actually graduate with degrees in this field —

    https://www.aip.org/sites/default/files/statistics/graduate/graddegrees-p-08.pdf

    First it was they didn’t. Then ti was they couldn’t. Now it has to be they must be legends . . . laughing. Your premise of gone and the data sets previous provided further the point.

    Plenty of legends the question us more than likely legends for whom. I am not in the field, but i suspect that there plenty of legends in physics, but those are bonuses and quite unnecessary to the initial commentary.

    https://www.nist.gov/speech-testimony/african-american-technological-contributions-past-present-and-future

    • Replies: @Mishra
    , @Anon
    , @anon
  73. 200 million white Americans? One of the markers for intelligence is the ability to count. The Law of Inertia of Large Numbers indicates 130 million, tops.

    If you keep inflating the numbers how do you ever expect to keep your minority status?

  74. @RealAmerican

    I had a lot more fun on Friday nights staying home reading an old O-chem textbook than I ever did at the bar scene. A still, starry night, a glass of brandy, and a slice of being to contemplate. Those are the times that stick with you.

    • Agree: sayless
    • Replies: @OilcanFloyd
  75. CCZ says:

    Hand in hand with “adverse demographic changes and SJWization” is the “decolonization” of Western science and philosophy, most heavily advocated by university faculty and students in Africa and, increasingly, in Europe, Canada, and the United States. Interesting how no “decolonizers” appear to be Chinese, Japanese, or Korean.

    A concise example is the below 4 minute video from the University of Cape Town that promotes the “fall” of Western science.

  76. anonymous[285] • Disclaimer says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    The lack of reading comprehension due to your low IQ is your problem. Its pretty obvious from those numbers that blacks are essentially being shoved into a privileged position which actively harms others.

  77. anonymous[285] • Disclaimer says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    I highly suspect that you haven’t even read your links. The achievements indicated are trivial.

  78. Heros says:
    @Colin Wright

    I worked with a couple of Nigerians for a while on an IT project (they were the test team). They both said that in Africa, when blacks get on an airplane the first thing they do is check to make sure that the pilot is white.

    • Replies: @Anon
  79. Anonymous[225] • Disclaimer says:
    @anon

    The chinese are flocking to western universities not because your institutions are better, but because they are second-rate students who couldnt hack it in the motherland, whose universities – due to the socialist system – does NOT have the financial incentive to take in any and every student that enrols.

    • Replies: @George Orwell
  80. Mishra says:
    @Frederick V. Reed

    Where does he get this stuff? It is a sort of illiteracy of the higly literate. And confirms my views of Alt-Righters.

    Now, now. Let’s not generalize, shall we? Even about ‘immigratnts’. And while we’re at it, the website link on your posts currently reads “fredoneverythng.org”…

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  81. Mishra says:
    @anon

    That’s like expecting them to live next door to the wretched third-world refuse (but I repeat myself) they’re importing. Ain’t gonna happen.

  82. Mishra says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    Responding to you is obviously a fool’s errand; still you might consider that a degree from MIT and one from Fountainhead College of Technology aren’t quite equivalent.

  83. vinteuil says:
    @Colin Wright

    Affirmative action may be intended to counteract the effects of bias. In a certain brute-force way, it may even realize that goal to some extent. However, it simultaneously makes bias rational.

    Yes. All too true. Some years ago, I needed a broken tooth capped. The nearest dentist on my provider list turned out to be a black woman. I didn’t understand, at the time, the prevalence of affirmative action in medical fields, so I didn’t think twice.

    Never again. It was pure torture. Simple incompetence or active malice? Who knows. But I will never again willingly go with a black medical professional.

    Affirmative action makes bias rational.

    • Replies: @Old Palo Altan
  84. Pericles says:
    @manorchurch

    I never said the intent was to lower standards, but I did observe that the very valid objections raised by the opposition were based on the likelihood it would lower standards.

    Furthermore, and regardless of intent, it turned out the proponents didn’t mind lowering standards. If that be the cost, so be it.

  85. Pericles says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    As for math and blacks : I think the evidence is overwhelming that even with discrimination — millions of blacks grasp mathematical concepts. more importantly — very few people need to know math beyond the basics or level one algebra. The qualifications for what one is entitled to is citizenship, not math skills. To wit, let’s make sure we undo the damage of denying equal access and then address what blacks are capable of

    Lol.

    To the powers that be: Send this guy to advise the Republicans on political strategy. You won’t regret it.

  86. nebulafox says:
    @Bragadocious

    Muslims in the ghettos of Europe are generally far more dysfunctional than Muslims in the at least reasonably developed sections of Muslim World. I suspect that there’s a similar dynamic going on here between Mexican Mexicans, who live in a reasonably developed if messy country, and the less well-performing migrants, who tend to be heavily working class, much like their Muslim counterparts in Europe. Ghettoized, heavily working or underclass minorities are, with few exceptions, a headache for a more affluent, educated host nation, no matter what their skin color or creed is.

    Note that El Salvador, Guatemala, Puerto Rico, etc, are way, way poorer and more dysfunctional than Mexico, and Hispanic immigration has also been heavy from those areas-which unlike Mexico, have far less direct history and interaction with the US, leading to less assimilation. Note also that such nations tend to be far more split between the indigenous many and creole white oligarchs, whereas Mexico has far more of a broad spectrum caused by large scale European (and more recently, Korean and Lebanese) immigration.

    I’ve been to Mexico, although I’ve never lived there, unlike Fred Reed, so take my words with a grain of salt. My honest impression, from my admittedly limited experience, is that I’d put Mexico around Thailand’s level, development wise. A little below the likes of Malaysia or Spain or the Southern Cone, more further below the likes of Taiwan or Finland or the ROK, but decidedly above lower-middle class nations (Indonesia, Vietnam, Colombia), let alone genuinely poor ones (the Philippines, the subcontinent, Central America and the Caribbean). It’s pretty solidly middle of the pack, globally speaking, perhaps at the lower-rungs of the upper-middle class. I mean, life expectancy in Mexico has shot up over the past several decades. Mexico’s birth-rates have plummeted. Starvation was a big part of life for your average Mexican peasant as recently as 50 years ago: that’s not the case anymore. No more stupid diseases, a general base line of public health, etc. There’s a mass, solid middle class in Mexico, very much unlike in, say, Guatemala. Freedom of the press is generally respected unless they go after the wrong people too hard, etc. Mexico’s developing IT and tech sectors, in particular, are booming and are starting to attract foreign (including American) talent. And there’s no reason to think, barring a catastrophe, this won’t continue until Mexico becomes a top 10 economy in the coming decades.

    The people are Catholic, speak a European language, are partially (or for upper-bourgeois and higher Mexicans, fully so) European, and given a reasonable base line of education and skills, can assimilate quite well into American culture. There are a host of leftists with a stake in making this not happen and turning them into another ghettoized minority, we really don’t need to be joining them. Rovian fantasies about combining Chamber of Commerce fantasies with amnesty are ludicrous, of course, not least because, again, the migrants tend to be heavily working class. But a more socioeconomically sane Republican Party (“how can we make the market work for average Americans and set up a real meritocracy with yeoman independence rather than the neo-feudal phony meritocracy of the Democrats?”) could exploit the fault lines in the Democratic coalition that are inevitably starting to form, and with an eye toward an assimilation, upworldy mobile future in which the Democrats remain the party of the resentful fringes.

    Now, none of this is to say everything is hunky-dory in Mexico. Entrenched corruption is omnipresent, and a large part of why the PRI looks to be in trouble this election season. The police are not much better than the criminals in Mexico. The political elite are largely untouched by law, much like in Thailand: they can get away with nonsense (like assassinating populists they don’t like) that makes the American bipartisan political elite quite jealous (hence their enthusiasm to merge us further with Mexico). The line between government official and criminal underground is sometimes quite blurry. Neo-feudal income stratification and lack of mobility, despite recent advances, is still a major issue, and part of the reason the Mexican government is obsessed with keeping illegal immigrants going to the US (quite hypocritically, given their own treatment of illegal immigrants) is fear of what would happen if the underclass grows too big and the Mexican economy explodes. Much like Argentina, it can be fragile.

    (Mexican culture is also openly “Euro-normative”, or whatever the SJWs call it these days, to a degree that many liberals seem to have a hard time fathoming. Naturally, this is because treat brown-skinned people as abstractions meant to show off their own progressiveness rather than… actual human beings, capable of all the hypocrisies, nastiness, and fragilities of the breed. To say that Mexicans can have less than PC views about blacks and Central Americans is an understatement.)

    That said, the alt-right’s view of Mexico as this third world hellhole is ludicrous. There are real third world hellholes right to the south and east of Mexico, if you want a good comparison. The only thing that makes Mexico stand out from the likes of Thailand and Malaysia are the absurd crime rates (caused in part by the War on Drugs), but generally speaking, the narcos are far more interested in making their own people miserable than foreigners. The only exception to this are potential foreign millionaire hostages, but hey, they have the money to hire security, and judging from their own plans to make the USA more like Mexico, they’d better get used to doing that. Maybe they could talk to Carlos Slim.

  87. Pericles says:
    @cylindrical crown

    Is it time to post the ‘dancing surgeon’ video yet?

  88. bomag says:
    @Abelard Lindsey

    Perhaps there is a market for STEM universities outside the U.S. that will admit exclusively on merit and no other criteria.

    A better way forward might be online learning coupled with proctored testing.

    Foreign universities face the same pozzed influences as here.

    Since higher ed is mostly signalling your worthiness to join the Swamp/Cathedral, most countries; China especially; are pretty cagey about letting it be a springboard into their inner sanctums.

  89. nebulafox says:
    @CCZ

    I majored in physics not least because it presented an objective picture of reality, which was very mentally relaxing for me. I suspect I wasn’t alone.

    One thing I’m doing with my time away from politics: slowly getting back into physics and math. It’s a nice protection against the Stupid Ages.

  90. vinteuil says:
    @CCZ

    At 1:00 in this video, some poor fool, apparently unable to contain himself any longer, exclaims “it’s not true” (that “black magic” enables one “to send a lightning to strike someone.”)

    Just watch the indignant reaction. The porky white girl slaps her little hands and sucks on her water bottle, such is her wrath.

  91. Anon[436] • Disclaimer says:
    @Realist

    Realists don’t have to be unimaginative plodders who don’t recognise the satirical or spoof.

    • Replies: @Realist
  92. Add the National Academy of Sciences to the list of diversity-obsessed organizations. They do nothing without ensuring that women and minorities are front and center. They try hard to not compromise their products, but that is inevitable and this approach always adds inefficiency and costs.

    Science move over, here comes diversity optics and engineer gyrrl

  93. Anon[436] • Disclaimer says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    Have you no understanding of the Gaussian normal distribution, aka the Bell Curve.? Suppose you need an IQ of 125 to be a serious physicist (no more than say 2 per cent of all professors of physics being below that) and the African-American average IQ is 85 v. Whites’ 100 (standard deviation 15 for both) of course you are going to find sufficiently smart black physicists. But show us you understand the implications of the Gaussian Normal Distribution by telling us what proportion of blacks will have reached the aforesaid thtedhold IQ in comparison with whites……

  94. @Mishra

    Heh! I try to check my links every time I put one in, on my own blog and others, but I’ve done the same. I guess Mr. Reed has truly gone native, and therefore has the attitude: “Check my leeenks? I don’t need to check no steeening leeenks! Manana, Senor!” See, that’s no generalization – I’m being very specific.

    BTW, I never noticed the typo in the link to his own site, but I used to read his site regularly.

  95. Anon[436] • Disclaimer says:
    @Heros

    And what does it say about you that you apparently didn’t notice that it’s a bit late to check on the pilot after they are on the plane, and that you don’t report following up with “And what do you do when you find that the (sic – singular) pilot isn’t white?”?

    And did it not occur to you that they were exhibiting a robust, or maybe somewhat slyly contemptuous sense of humour at your expense? Mind you they probably would have been right to be serious.

  96. @CCZ

    What a splendid piece of evidence for colonization by the nutty French postmodernists. Alan Sokal of the famous hoax couldn’t produce better satire.

  97. @Simon Tugmutton

    I posted this limerick on Takimag around the time of the Ted Cruz booger-eating incident:

    Dried morsels of snot are delectable.
    Should eating them mean “unelectable”?
    Go on, pick a winner
    And have it for dinner.
    Let’s make booger-eating respectable!

  98. “STEM fields (science, technology, engineering, and mathematics)”

    I like your writing Fred so please don’t do this, especially in an essay complaining about the decline of our sciences caused by diversity mandates. You could have simply written “science and technology”.

    STEM is a diversity racket word which really means “selling science crap to parents of girls” but is always written as “STEM (an acronym meaning science, technology, engineering, and mathematics)”.

    It’s retarded.

  99. @nebulafox

    Great comment and supplement to Mr. Reed’s highly-biased take on the matter, Mr. Fox.

  100. hunor says:
    @Simon Tugmutton

    not nearly as vehemently as your sophisticated sister , and at least hi is trying to hide it.

  101. JimB says:

    First of all, who cares about fields like astrophysics or high energy physics? Neither effects the economy, and publication tends to
    amount to a participation award with lots of coauthors. The instrumental engineering for those fields requires smart white male engineers, but nobody is fighting them for their underpaid 60 hr/wk jobs. Women and minorities can run canned analysis software on aggregate data and write statistical papers about data trends. Then they can be elevated to the level of professor and sit around on committees jawboning about diversity and travel around to international conferences and play the role of siteseeing “scientist” on busman’s holiday. Engineering and material science are the only disciplines that matter these days. Bioengineering, as well.

  102. @Anonymous

    Let’s not forget these second-rate Chinese students can still run circles academically around any American. Even the dregs of China have sharper minds than the fading westerners.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  103. Dr. X says:
    @RealAmerican

    How can any American kid, white, black, or Hispanic compete with a Chinese student when there are Friday night football games, and Saturday night bar scenes to attend.

    I have a vivid memory from grad school 25 years ago. I was leaving the library at 11:00 Friday night as the place was closing down. It was practically a ghost town at that hour… as I walked out of the near-deserted library I passed a Chinese kid, alone at a row of empty tables with an open textbook in front of him — with his face planted in it, sound asleep…

  104. Mj says:
    @RealAmerican

    If you want to see women with the qualities you cite then visit Seoul, visit Moscow, visit Riga.

    Who are these American grrrls you describe? Amerigirrrls are irresistible? Good grief. By irresistible do you mean cartoonish levels of narcissism coupled with gag-inducing BMIs?

    Kudos to the Chinese boy who studies on Saturday night. He’s not missing out on a damn thing. If American white kids want to party their youth away then do so, by all means. But, when the excitements of youth fade, and those white kids grow up to become overweight forty-somethings with BA in Psychology pulling in a whopping 32K per year I hope they blame themselves and not the tide from the east.

    • Replies: @anon
  105. @nebulafox

    given a reasonable base line of education and skills, can assimilate quite well into American culture

    But they don’t, generally. Reason: your qualifier. “Given a reasonable base line.” Coming to the USA with a 6th grade education is not a good plan. It doesn’t work out for most people.

    the alt-right’s view of Mexico as this third world hellhole is ludicrous

    Why should anyone care what the alt-right thinks of Mexico? I know Reed loves to go on and on about this topic, but he just sounds like a hysterical snowflake. I have opinions about the shittiness of Britain, and I would guess no one in Britain cares what I think. The point isn’t what Mexico is or isn’t, it’s what Mexico brings to the USA. What it brings is ghettos, poverty, failing schools, drug dealing, cheap labor for the 1%, and a few decent restaurants.

  106. Crimson2 says:

    Ah, the dumb IQ argument with zero understanding.

    The IQ panic against minorities makes no sense when you understand that our minority population has a higher IQ than the US did during the 1940s. Immigrants arriving today are much smarter than your ancestors when they arrived. The US population had an average IQ of 70 (!) In 1900. We are fine.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  107. megabar says:
    @j

    > The dilution the science content of science classes and the consequent granting of fake science diplomas is (1) unavoidable and (2) does not harm real science.

    There is a degree of truth to this in the short term, but ultimately it is this type of thinking that ends up causing problems. When we fail to account for subtle long-term effects, we introduce harmful, hard-to-reverse problems.

    If you accept X% of minorities in academics to keep up appearances, do you not also have to publish X% of their work? Otherwise, someone will notice, and then reapplying the exact same logic (i.e. we have to keep up appearances) will force us to publish. If we publish them in an inferior journal, someone will notice, and so prestigious journals will have to publish bad articles to keep up appearances. And so on.

    If you don’t believe this, then consider the outcry that there aren’t enough female partners in law firms.

    Taken to its logical conclusion, less-talented-but-protected members of all desirable professions will need to be taken as seriously as the rest of the group. Academics is particularly insidious in this regard, in that they publish the research and teach the lectures for our most intelligent society members, and so there is a positive feedback loop to progressive thought.

    I currently believe that the modern Western University system, with all of its great benefits, has contributed great social harms to us.

  108. Roberto says:

    It’s time for all those men in China, who can’t find a wife, to start having sex with the women of South America.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
  109. megabar says:
    @cylindrical crown

    This would backfire. There are indeed well-qualified minority pilots. Of these, Mrs. Pelosi would get the best, and prove the program a success. Just as other elite whites work well with the most talented of minorities, and then claim that it’s the middle-class and poor whites who are racist who can’t work with minorities.

  110. Anon7 says:

    When my daughter was in the seventh grade, she came to me for help with her math homework. The chapter had to do with problems like 2/5 = 4/x, solve for x. Not wanting to disrupt modern math education, I looked in the book. Incomprehensible. A lot of verbiage about the method of correspondences and the rule of ratios.

    So, I arranged for a parent – teacher meeting, and I wrote the above problem on the board, and invited the teacher, a 40 year-old white woman, to solve it. She mumbled a few sentences about methods and rules. I handed her the marker pen, and motioned her to the board. She refused. She couldn’t solve for x, where 2/5=4/x.

    So, my wife and I spent about $1,500 for math tutoring for my daughter that year. I found out years later that, since it’s impossible to fire an incompetent teacher, she was promoted to a $90,000 per year administrative role in planning.

    My son had even more horrific experiences later on, but that was my introduction to modern mathematics education.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  111. @cylindrical crown

    ‘Why don’t we have affirmative action for airline pilots? ‘

    You’ve reminded me about the quip I read about why no one has demanded female football players — even though we’ve insisted on having female infantrypersons.

    It’s because we care about the outcome of football games.

  112. JMcG says:
    @Abelard Lindsey

    Do you seriously expect China to take space away from Chinese students and give them to Americans? They would never stoop to our level of madness, especially as the object lesson we are currently giving plays out.

    • Replies: @prusmc
  113. @EliteCommInc.

    ‘…So I just took the introduction of the 0 as introduced by hindis (black)…’

    How did ‘hindis’ get to be black as in subsaharan African? Some may have a great deal of melanin in their skin but the resemblance to Africans ends right there.

    We’re talking about mental acuity — not susceptibility to sun burn. That black Africans are markedly less intelligent than other groups is one of those facts so clearly true that I can’t be bothered to marshall arguments in its support. You might as well demand I show that the earth is indeed a sphere, or that it orbits about the sun rather than the reverse.

    I get tired of this. Want to debate the rights and wrongs of ‘the clash of civilizations’? By all means. Care to debate abortion? I’m up for it. But please: no desperate attempts to deny the certain. As a group, sub-saharan Africans are less intelligent than others — whatever you can or cannot demonstrate about ‘hindis.’

    • Replies: @Stan d Mute
  114. JMcG says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    The expression is “tabula rasa.”

  115. @Anon7

    I was a math teacher for five years. I had only taken one college-level class in mathematics, and no classes at all in education, but there was a shortage of math teachers, so there I was. This wasn’t unusual; at the high school I taught at, only one of the younger math teachers had actually majored in math.

    Nevertheless I did very well; high school level algebra isn’t exactly rocket science, as they say, and I was dedicated and all that.

    However, some of the other young teachers…there was one in particular who had majored in Hispanic studies. He actually approached me and asked how to solve for r if a/b = c/r or something — some very basic equation, and the textbook would have clearly explained it had he been at all uncertain.

    We had a department-wide standardized, multiple choice final in algebra. His classes literally scored at the level that would be obtained if the students picked their answers at random.

  116. prusmc says: • Website
    @JMcG

    What about the language issue? Most students and migrants from China speak English that is difficult to understand and they have been taking it probably since pre elementary school? Usually they read it well and maybe write better than they speak it. Math seems to be no problem.
    OTOH when do US students start Chinese if they are not second generation? Maybe Middle School? HIGH School or college with limited instruction time? They will never even try it. Just hang in there and get a US Stem degree from a dumbed down program. The paper is all that matters. BTW is there any research showing how many third generation Chinese in US maintain language proficiency?

  117. anonymous[466] • Disclaimer says:
    @RealAmerican

    I’m not Fred.

    And, no, I wouldn’t.

    Which is why I’m not a scientist or a tekkie.

  118. Realist says:
    @Anon

    Realists don’t have to be unimaginative plodders who don’t recognise the satirical or spoof.

    Gee thanks….my comment was meant in jest.

    But you knew that, you’re still pissed off about the verbal ass kicking I gave you awhile back….grow up.

    • Replies: @Anon
  119. Thomm says:
    @Alfa158

    In what respect are White Nationalists people who admire blacks and wish they were black?

    It is you who are unaware of the terminology. The meaning of the word changed around 1994.

    The reason White Trashionalists have more in common with blacks than successful whites can be listed as follows.

    i) The tendency to see race in everything.
    ii) Low IQ, particularly in mathematical concepts. WNs cannot read graphs and charts.
    iii) Left-wing economic views.
    iv) Laziness and low economic productivity.
    v) High tolerance of female obesity.

    For this reason, it is highly correct to use that term to describe WNs.

    • LOL: Truth
    • Replies: @Anon
  120. @Colin Wright

    I get tired of this. Want to debate the rights and wrongs of ‘the clash of civilizations’? By all means. Care to debate abortion? I’m up for it. But please: no desperate attempts to deny the certain. As a group, sub-saharan Africans are less intelligent than others — whatever you can or cannot demonstrate about ‘hindis.’

    Indeed, if we just “discovered” the Bantu, Pygmy, or Khoisan today, we would regard them as we do the Andaman or Sentinal islanders or uncontacted amazonians. We would observe from a distance and fret about how contact would spoil or destroy their pre-historic culture and language. They are, like the Australian aborigines, a distinct sub-species (think Neanderthal or Denisovan). And just like our own hybridization with Neanderthals (for us crackers) or Asian hybridization with Denisovans, we are now producing new hybrids (Bantu/Pygmy, Bantu/Khoisan, Bantu/white, etc).

    I was just reading some of the book Unz just put on his .com site and it’s remarkable how clearly Dr Pierce saw this in the late 60’s. We have hunter/gatherers from the Paleolithic co-existing (and now hybridizing) with space age Homo sapiens sapiens.

    Our communist left thinks we can just pretend this problem away. That we are all exactly alike and the problem is with whites who just hate melanin (yet sit in the sun inviting cancer to gain more for themselves). Our religious right thinks we are all YHWH’s children and are all exactly alike. They think the problem is one of proselytizing..

    Nature, on the other hand, is simply hedging. In another 100,000 years we should know which evolutionary strategy was superior (ie survived). Maybe then we could talk of “white supremacy” if in fact our tribe does survive, but right now we ought be far more worried about the next test Nature decides to throw at us whether yet another ice age, super-volcano, cosmic impact, extreme solar event, virus, bacterium, etc. Civilization could vanish tomorrow and the Bantu could well prove “superior” by virtue of survival due to his unique genetic traits. We just don’t know and none of us alive likely ever will know. HBD is nothing more nor less than our species hedging against extinction and rather than trying to ignore or pretend it away, we ought to embrace it and focus on our own sub-species and our own survival.

  121. In the next post Freed will talk about how Hispanics “are” wonderful!!

    Whitey seems emotionally and morally dumb since 98% part of their stories. Rightards believe “it’s just to social justins feel better for themselves”, as if was “just”…

    And the whitey mentality is

    Competition.
    Caus I believe on Jewish god or in superior force or in nonthing so I don’t care about my (supposed) white brothers.

  122. @Colin Wright

    I saw this happening in my own case when I was selecting a doctor from Kaiser’s staff. I am prejudiced against blacks and make no bones about it, but I have no such feelings concerning Hispanics — at least, Hispanics of the Indian-Spanish persuasion rather than of black-Spanish descent. I mention this only to emphasize what happened anyway.

    Great comment. Just to help illustrate the point, look at this:

    http://www.stjoeshealth.org/body.cfm?id=6863&action=list&limit_startswith_specialty1=Cardiology&distance=No%20preference&sortby=name&pageno=5&view=list

    You have to analyze (1) for AA, (2) selectivity of the med school, and (3) residency/career accomplishment to hedge against things like legacy admits (think GWB at Yale) for those who regressed significantly from Dr Genius Daddy to the mean. The massive proliferation of “doctors” from “upstares medicle skule” is terrifying when you consider your LACK of choice in an emergency situation…

  123. wrd9 says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Well said. As you mentioned, Latin America is functional for the 5%. Here’s a few articles about Argentina, one about its 2001 crisis, one a couple of years old, and one from an Argentinian about daily life during the crisis and afterwards. Is this a country we want to live in or have the US turn into? During the Great Depression, Americans kept it together. If it happens again, the result will be Argentinian in nature. A reflection of the diversity in the US and the ensuing degraded culture. If you import people from corrupt low social capital/low trust countries, you get Argentina or Brazil.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/argentina/1404657/Deadly-crimewave-sweeps-Argentina.html

    http://www.americasquarterly.org/content/maria-eugenia-vidal-and-other-buenos-aires

    http://ferfal.blogspot.com/search/label/Argentine%20Collapse

  124. so, according to that pic there are only white woman and black woman……..how mother fucking racist is that?

  125. Okechukwu says:

    White privilege and white supremacy are much more powerful than Affirmative Action in putting stupid, incompetent and unqualified people into position. How does a guy like George W. Bush become president of the most powerful country in the world? How about Trump? How far would a black Trump get? I dare say, a black Trump would be working in a dockyard somewhere. Many of the problems we’ve faced and continue to face are the result of dumb and ignorant whites in positions of power and influence while smarter, more capable and more talented non-whites have systematically been denied access.

    As a matter of observable–if, to many, unwelcome–fact, virtually all of the work in STEM fields (science, technology, engineering, and mathematics) in America is done by whites.

    And virtually all the work in STEM fields in Nigeria is done by blacks. So?

    America’s prosperity and place in the world very much depend on invention and excellence in the STEM fields. Boeing sells airliners, and provides jobs to Americans, only because its airliners are technically equal to those of AirBus. A lowering of technical capacity will have unfortunate consequences for the country

    America will lose its competitive edge unless it takes advantage of the talents of all its people. Smart people understand this. Just as there were black geniuses toiling away on slave plantations, there are today black geniuses without the means or opportunity to express their genius. It’s society’s duty to ameliorate the conditions that produce those conditions. Trying to stratify those conditions with justification rooted in idiotic pseudoscientific tripe may play well in cloistered echo-chambers like this, but normal society isn’t dumb enough to buy it.

  126. Truth says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    The comments are hilarious.

  127. Beliavsky says:

    “As a matter of observable–if, to many, unwelcome–fact, virtually all of the work in STEM fields (science, technology, engineering, and mathematics) in America is done by whites. Blacks contribute nothing and Hispanics, to date anyway, very little.”

    When Asians are ignored in this manner, the author sounds more like a white bigot than the hard-nosed realist he pretends to be.

    • Replies: @Thomm
  128. Thomm says:
    @Beliavsky

    When Asians are ignored in this manner, the author sounds more like a white bigot than the hard-nosed realist he pretends to be.

    This is normally true, yes. Such a statement would indicate that Fred Reed thinks Asians are ‘invisible colored’.

    But remember that Fred Reed’s sole mission here is to generate confusion. He will happily say the exact opposite next week. This is all by design.

    It is part of Ron Unz’s master plan. See my comment #73.

  129. Okechukwu says:

    Fortunately, the people that matter don’t believe any of the junk we find here on Unz.

    US promotes STEM education in Nigeria, trains 460 students, teachers

    The US government, in collaboration with US-based robotics education, RoboRave International education academy, has begun a robotics training workshop for 460 elementary, secondary, and university students, as well as Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics (STEM) teachers, robotics enthusiasts, and scientists.

    The workshop seeks to boost technology education in Nigeria by engaging the participating students in hands-on robotics activities to stimulate their interest in math and science as well as careers in the STEM fields, says the US Consul General F. John Bray.

    https://www.vanguardngr.com/2017/10/us-promotes-stem-education-nigeria-trains-460-students-teachers/

    Notice that American policymakers are dismissive of the bullshit theory promulgated here that black people are somehow incapable of assimilating STEM.

  130. @Okechukwu

    And virtually all the work in STEM fields in Nigeria is done by blacks. So?

    Just as there were black geniuses toiling away on slave plantations, there are today black geniuses without the means or opportunity to express their genius.

    So, just how many negro “geniuses” were/are there?

    https://www.vdare.com/posts/eric-s-raymond-asks-how-many-einsteins-per-africa-answer-not-very-many

    • Replies: @Okechukwu
  131. Okechukwu says:

    More evidence that the real world laughs at the nonsense found on this site:

    Silicon Valley Tech Leaders mentor Nigerian women working in STEM

    http://www.pulse.ng/bi/tech/silicon-valley-leaders-mentor-nigerian-women-working-in-stem-id8147916.html

    Nigeria: U.S. Supports Nigerian Women Advancement in Stem Fields

    http://allafrica.com/stories/201803220046.html

    The Kenyan Scientist Who is Opening Doors For Women in STEM

    https://www.ofafricamag.com/the-kenyan-scientist-who-is-opening-doors-for-women-in-stem/

    Strengthening STEM education in Kenya:

    http://www.ibe.unesco.org/sites/default/files/news/stem_kenya_concept_note_and_agenda.pdf

    Kenya: General Electric Promotes STEM Initiative in Kenya to Attract Girls

    http://allafrica.com/stories/201805140119.html

    Rwanda Ramps Up STEM Education for Girls

    https://www.voanews.com/a/rwanda-leading-way-in-girls-in-stem-field/4148108.html

    Science-Loving Teens From Ghana And D.C. Geek Out Together

    https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2017/03/23/520864034/science-loving-teens-from-ghana-and-d-c-geek-out-together

    STEM Workshops in Ghana

    http://www.stemchamp.com/ghana.html

    Promoting STEM in Ghana

    https://ghscientific.com/promoting-stem-ghana/

    Increasing female engagement in STEM in Ghana

    https://www.britishcouncil.org/partner/international-development/news-and-events/increasing-female-engagement-stem-ghana

    STEM Uganda

    https://www.stemuganda.org/

    Like Zimbabwe, U.S pushes STEM initiative as tech companies pledge $300m

    https://www.techzim.co.zw/2017/10/like-zimbabwe-u-s-pushes-stem-initiative-tech-companies-pledge-300m/

    Bridging the STEM and ICT gender gap in Tanzania

    http://news.itu.int/bridging-the-stem-and-ict-gender-gap-in-tanzania/

    Etc, etc, etc…

  132. Plainman says: • Website
    @MarkinLA

    @MarkinLA
    Are you asserting that Asian are doing only unimportant STEM work? If so, how do you reconcile that with their many Nobel prizes in Physics, Chemistry, and Medicine?
    Your ad hominem suggests that you misread my comment to which you replied. I worked in software engineering for more than 40 years.

    • Replies: @Thomm
    , @MarkinLA
  133. I think Fred is correct in much of this essay. I’ve bashed him in the past but give credit when credit is due. I have a question for the enlightened on this forum who are world travelers and have lived in various countries because I have not.

    The PhD in America is different and supposedly follows perhaps the “German Method.” In America you take more courses and do what is usually referred as a thesis. In England and other places the Research PhD is nothing but heavy research no course work. I’ve had numerous professors from English Universities such as Cambridge, Imperial etc. kind of politely “smile” at the US requirements compared to their degrees if you know what I mean. I’ve read many of the English research theses in the sciences compared to US ones and there appears to be a big difference in many cases of the “rigor” of the research.

    In fact, years ago universities like Imperial required that you have one of their B.S. honors degrees before you could get into certain programs I believe. I would be interested in what the opinion of the forum is and also do these universities still demand such rigorous research or have they also gone politically correct.

  134. Thomm says:
    @Plainman

    You should know that MarkinLA has no exposure to the tech industry, and far too low of an IQ to grasp what it is. Any citations you provide about the obvious presence of Asians in STEM will be ignored.

    MarkinLA is no more capable of knowing what is really happening in STEM than a sea cucumber is of understanding oceanic plate tectonics.

    Remember that WN wiggers like him are desperate to take credit for the work of people who have nothing in common with him other than ancestry from Europe. His IQ of 70 disqualifies him from any conceptual awareness of STEM.

    • Replies: @Anon
  135. Okechukwu says:
    @Stan d Mute

    The fact that you would link to a white supremacist site and expect to be taken seriously is stunning evidence of your own mind-numbing stupidity.

    Oh, speaking of Einstein:

    THE SEARCH FOR THE NEXT EINSTEIN IN AFRICA

    AIMS is propelling Africa onto the global scientific stage. While striving to close the continent’s STEM education deficit and build its scientific infrastructure from the bottom up, the institution is also empowering a new generation of Africans to dream big. Turok and others are optimistic these inspired young Africans will make groundbreaking scientific discoveries.

    “I would claim,” Turok said in a 2013 TEDx talk, “that the best possible thing that could happen is that the next great discovery of the human mind on the scale of Einstein’s — a discovery which tells us about the basic nature of reality and changes the future, and creates the future — if that next discovery is made by an African.”

    However intimidating the task of training “Einsteins” might appear, many African leaders believe that Africa has the pipeline to make it happen. The continent has a massive youth demographic that will only get larger. According to UNICEF, 40% of the world’s youth will be African by 2050. Turok and AIMS believe that African scientists are uniquely positioned to transform scientific fields, just as a generation of Jewish scientists did when they gained entry into universities across Europe in the 19th Century.

    https://helix.northwestern.edu/article/search-next-einstein-africa

    This is what’s happening in the real world as distinct from your delusional and myopic Internet bubbles.

    • Replies: @Joe862
    , @bj
  136. @Chris Mallory

    It was an honest question, I’d like to see this. The lack of participation or contribution is frequently alleged here and written of by many as though axiomatic or self evident, but my own experience would give me no reason to think that’s the case, plus at least some good reason to suspect some may not be lying with statistics, but might be very confused by them.

    For example: a common technique to foment underrepresentation outrage is “big print: 70/80% of employees are white, small print: well actually its white and Asian, whites by themselves are under-represented but that wouldn’t be headline grabbing or outrage fomenting so we lied”.

    Well, there’s even more to be bothered by there. Hispanic: is white. For reporting Hispanic is an ethnicity not a race so its not obvious to a lot of people but checking the Hispanic box is credited to “white, of Hispanic origin”.

    By the time they get to misreporting “80% white”, its a pretty sure thing Hispanics are included when they need to be for the shock value, no one checks on this or asks.

    Another thing is: more people are Hispanic than you think. The genius engineer at the desk right there, he might be.

    So I think it’s an unexamined presumption and if anyone has hard data I’d like to see it.

  137. @Okechukwu

    You know: I believe that with the right educational models and political stability Africa stands to be quite ascendant and the saddest thing about the belief systems of so many commenters here is that if one doesn’t emerge a child prodigy, and if something doesn’t just come easy as if winning the genetic lottery, they all collect in a sad echo chamber together to assure one another that that’s OK, no reason to work hard cause what-the-point since they-know its all genetic.
    It is sad, it is weakness, and they will pound sand.

    But: that all said, in reference to your citations, I am fully prepared to accept them my own experience bears out their truth, however: American Affirmative Action law is intended to benefit African Americans and right past wrongs they have suffered. To often we are importing non-Americans who by law aren’t even supposed to be counted in Affirmative Action, just to game the system so wealthy employers can appear to be doing their part. This hurts all Americans, white and black alike.

    • Replies: @Stonehands
  138. Although I disagree with Fred on some points, I must say I also find this frequent obsession with (collective) IQ weird. Evidently, a functioning modern civilization or human collective has not much to do with bare IQ. Well known examples:

    Mongolia- IQ 101

    Lithuania- IQ 91

    And Mongolia is, compared to Lithuania, a dump.

    American blacks or African Americans- IQ 85

    India- IQ 82

    While there are numerous Indian top physicists, mathematicians, engineers, excellent schools, … no such thing among blacks.

    • Replies: @megabar
  139. Rdm says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    C’mon.

    At the very top of the United States of America, you don’t see Wakanda by any chance, Anatoly?

  140. Vinnie says:

    “part-time sociopath”?? OK, I’m willing to accept this as a going in proposition, but how do I know you’re not a FULL-TIME sociopath. Not that I have a lot against sociopaths here in the ultra-modern super whizz-bang Buck Rogers 21st Century

  141. Joe862 says:
    @Okechukwu

    The reason there are so many African children is that Africa never develops so the birthrate stays high. As you have shown, there are ongoing attempts to help Africa but overall it is still a mess. The average per capita GDP of the continent is <$2,000.

  142. Rdm says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Yea, right,

    A white guy draw a square, patented as Punnett square.
    A white guy invented a light house, given a Nobel Prize Gustaf Dalén.
    A white guy drew a conclusion between Malaria and Mosquitoes after visiting India, given a Nobel Prize Ronald Ross.

    The entire Chinese coolies built a transcontinental railroad, not a single symbol of achievement.
    Chinese invented a toilet paper. Not a single patent.
    Chinese invented umbrella, not a single patent.

    You guys keep spewing out fake patents, over bloated patents coming from East Asia? Be prepared for a similar approach taken by EuroWhites back in the olden days.

    Welcome to 21st century.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Old Cynic
  143. @Okechukwu

    The exception does not mean the rule. Do you not understand bell curves and Gaussian distribution?

  144. Crimson2 says:

    More evidence that the real world laughs at the nonsense found on this site:

    I don’t know why the Unz crowd doesn’t get this. Maybe an obsession with nonwhite IQ correlates with a below-average to average IQ.

    You get one cross-burner like Charles Murray who manages to publish a few marginal papers and these folks get a bit…uppity. Learn your place, white supremacists. Learn. Your. Place.

  145. bj says:
    @Okechukwu

    Here is video of the West African Einsteins…….

  146. @Anatoly Karlin

    I think most testing data would make people think that the smartest Asians in the world are the ones living in the US and Canada. Also – I’m prepared, based on everything I’ve ever dealt with, with China, ever, and based on the sure knowledge that China games the PISA scores, everyone knows this, and everyone lets China get away with it – by only including scores from the top-performing geography and educational program (Shanghai – it would be like only letting Massachusetts and Connecticut contribute their PISA scores, ignore the other 48 states, and call those two representative of the US, that is exactly what we let China get away with and then here we are generalizing to China on the whole like we swallowed the propaganda) – I am completely prepared to lay my bet down that the whole rest of the the 5 points above average in China is gamed. Could be wrong but that’s how I’d bet it.
    Chinese people are – anything but dull – but average 105? Really? 1.5 billion and we want to claim that half of them, 750 million, would score above 105? Not, bloody, likely.

    It is as often a form of hubris to attribute superhuman capabilities to others as it is to mis-attribute excessive competence to oneself. Generally speaking I think this is not one of Fred’s best articles. Someone could do a take-down piece on the specifics which are weak and the generalizations which do not follow well and that’s too bad because there is plenty not to like about Affirmative Action. Fred’s done much better work than this.

    • Replies: @megabar
  147. Wally says:
    @Rdm

    said:
    “The entire Chinese coolies built a transcontinental railroad, not a single symbol of achievement.”

    No they didn’t.
    Since when is basic manual labor a “symbol of achievement”?

    said
    “Chinese invented a toilet paper.”
    Did they?

    “Chinese invented umbrella”.
    Did they?

    I rather doubt such obvious tools of necessity needed to be “invented”.

    That’s like saying ‘so & so invented roads’.

    Welcome to reality.

    • Replies: @Rdm
  148. Wally says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Yep, all those Latin American ‘migrants’ are really just a mirage.

  149. Wally says:
    @Ray Huffman

    True enough.

    Need proof?

    Just look at US TV commercials & dumb Spielberg movies; black & brown surgeons, engineers, physicists, & symphony orchestra conductors galore.

  150. Wally says:
    @Bragadocious

    The Mexican Congress, see any brown ones?

  151. @EliteCommInc.

    All 355 of the Tuskeegee Airmen who entered active duty in 1945 when the war was nearly over? LOL. Try again.

  152. @George Orwell

    Nah, bullcrap. As Anonymous said, lots of Chinese come to study here because they couldn’t get into a good college in China. That’s because they aren’t very smart, though possibly still more hardworking than American students. Possibly not, and they copy and cheat like MF’ers.

    It’s only been since the last 15 years or so that China has not been sending their best and brightest. The universities don’t care – they want the full tuition money, and some cheap labor for the research work, if it’s graduate school. In the latter case, the student may get a green card out of it, allowing for easy funneling of ill-gotten funds by the Dad across the pond.

    • Replies: @anon
  153. Rdm says:
    @Wally

    By your logic, basic necessities need not an inventor.

    Edison was not an inventor of light bulbs because it’s a basic necessity. Of course tungsten material, electric current control, glass shell for protection, all just thrown out into thin air. As long as the stuff is basic, we shall not name an invention.

    Olden days invention and 21st century inventions are not obviously comparable. In olden days, inventions and discoveries were more of a solitary achievement. Even then, from primitive stone age to discovery of fire, invention of man-made stuff was extraordinary back in the olden days.

    If a monkey made the stuff that comes with several poles of support with a shelter on top and manageable to fold and reopen, we would call it ‘an invention’ even if that invention became a basic necessity for every monkey.

    I rather doubt such obvious tools of necessity needed to be “invented”.

    So you wipe your ass with a communal brush?

  154. @EliteCommInc.

    I can’t give one kid a gocart with four wheels and another kid a cart with two and claim that upon entering the competition — it’s fair and proceed to make all manner of excuse why it is fair while ignoring the obvious disparity and worse blaming the kid who was denied access to building a car with four wheels wheels.

    Lmao, The only ones “given” things are your precious SSA’s. Technology was not given but developed by some and given to 0thers. The population is booming in SSA due to western health and technological advancements.

    That kid with the four wheel go cart built it or got it from his father, mofo. Your precious kid with the two wheel cart is lucky he got anything. Ungratefulness at its finest.

    Denied access to building? WTF made some pops with lower average iq’s or different time preferences? I guess nature is racially discriminatory.

    You’re right, it’s all manner of excuses and it is completely unfair but not in the way you think bud

    • Replies: @Crimson2
    , @EliteCommInc.
  155. @Jesse James

    I have been assured that without the Tuskeegee Airmen, not only would the US have lost WWII, but WWI retroactively as well.

  156. megabar says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    > While there are numerous Indian top physicists, mathematicians, engineers, excellent schools, … no such thing among blacks.

    One theory to explain this is that India is not a homogeneous “race.” Instead, the castes are quite separate, and do not generally interbreed. Some of the castes are probably quite bright; it is from these folks that the professionals you refer to come from.

    It sounds plausible to me, but I don’t claim to be an authority.

  157. megabar says:
    @SimplePseudonymicHandle

    My experience with Chinese has generally been quite positive.

    I do wonder why the discrepancy exists between predicted societal success of Asians, based on IQ, and reality. I have read the verbal smart fraction theory, but don’t really buy it. I’ve heard some claim that Europeans have wider IQ curves (and thus more geniuses), but the real data I’ve seen refutes this. I’ve heard the argument that lower testosterone reduces Asian boldness, which is important in innovation. But….I dunno.

    What does that leave?
    - Asians will surpass the West given some more time to develop. In this theory, they just got started in the scientific age a little late, and we just happen to be in this catch-up phase.
    - Successful societies are built on more than just IQ, and at least one part of this is more present among Europeans (the low-T theory is an example of this).

    Or perhaps something else entirely.

    • Replies: @anon
    , @Anatoly Karlin
  158. @Crimson2

    Immigrants arriving today are much smarter than your ancestors when they arrived. The US population had an average IQ of 70 (!) In 1900.

    I can imagine that YOUR immigrant ancestors had an average IQ of 70, between the two of them, but that doesn’t apply for anyone else’s. It frickin’ hilarious, in fact, that you believe this.

    Have you ever seen an end-of-year American little-red-schoolhouse 8th-grade test from 100 years back, Crimson? You couldn’t … OK that doesn’t work … I’d even have to cram at the library for it. Stupidity has increased greatly over the last 100 years, and has accelerated – the last 20 years have seen a stupidity increase heretofore not seen by man!

    It’s not gonna be fine. Try to find the Mike Judge movie Idiocracy – you’ll enjoy it, even if you don’t get that the story in it is supposed to take place 500 years from now, but it’s been only 12 since it was made, and it has damn near become reality. PEAK STUPIDITY IS NIGH!

    • Replies: @Crimson2
    , @Truth
  159. theMann says:

    China has already collapsed from within – its called sex selective abortion. The full effects are only beginning to show, but will ultimately grind …exceedingly fine. Not to mention the periodic outbursts of furious lunatic fury, sometimes xenophobic, other times self directed, that the Chinese routinely engage in.

    In the meantime, let’s stop with the nonsense about Asian, in general, and Chinese, in particular, intelligence. The one thing all those tests measure is that the Chinese are good at taking tests, and even better at cheating on taking tests. Which is a practical intelligence of a sort.

    And as an exercise, count up all the major inventions, acts of exploration, great works of art, practical Economic developments, engineering marvels, literary achievements, and religious ideas developed by all of Asia since 1000 AD, and compare them to what the population of tiny little Holland managed from 1650-1750 AD.

    Yep, that is what I thought.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  160. @SimplePseudonymicHandle

    however: American Affirmative Action law is intended to benefit African Americans and right past wrongs they have suffered. To often we are importing non-Americans who by law aren’t even supposed to be counted in Affirmative Action, just to game the system so wealthy employers blah…blah…blah…blah….

    Thats what it is: we just haven’t gotten it right the last 70 years: if only we focused exclusively on african americans: instead of homo americans: pussy hat americans: pajeet americans: ad nauseum…

  161. CCZ says:
    @cylindrical crown

    But we may very likely have Affirmative Action Air Traffic Controllers.

    Friday [June 2, 2018] on Fox News Channel’s “Tucker Carlson Tonight,” aviation attorney Michael Pearson warned host Tucker Carlson that the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) was putting diversity ahead of public safety with its hiring practices for air traffic controllers.

    Carlson explained how the FAA rewarded job applicants on a biographical questionnaire with extra credit for answers demonstrating the applicants’ possible contribution to diversity over those that might show candidates as more qualified for an air traffic controller opening.

    CARLSON: Talking about air traffic controllers – OK? – who are the linchpin of public safety and transportation. Why would the FAA want people with less relevant skills in air traffic control for air traffic controllers?

    PEARSON: Because a group within the FAA, including the human resources function within the FAA, including the National Black Coalition of Federal Aviation Employees, determined that the workforce was too white.

    http://www.breitbart.com/video/2018/06/02/aviation-attorney-to-tucker-carlson-faa-is-putting-diversity-ahead-of-safety/

    Some primary source data:

    FAA Statement on the Barrier Analysis of the Air Traffic Control Specialist Centralized Hiring Process (April 16, 2013)

    Administrator Michael Huerta has made an historic commitment to transform the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) into a more diverse and inclusive workplace that reflects, understands, and relates to the diverse customers we serve. To meet this goal and satisfy the requirements of the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission MD-715, the Administrator tasked the Office of the Assistant Administrator for Civil Rights to conduct barrier analyses of the Air Traffic Control Specialist (ATCS) Centralized Hiring Process, Aviation Safety Inspectors, and Airway Transportation Systems Specialists.

    Adverse impact was found at several hurdles in the ATCS selection process, as well as across the overall ATCS selection process. Specifically, two of our three focal groups (African Americans and Females) have disproportionately lower pass rates than White and Male applicants for both minimum qualification hurdles (automated and HR) as well as for the CSP selection process.

    https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/acr/eeo_affirm_program/media/Extension_to_Barrier_Analysis_Report.pdf

    The FAA adopted the new test, called a biographical assessment, this year [2014]. The 62-question test asks applicants about their abilities, life experiences and work backgrounds. It also asks how they’ve handled various stressful situations. Only about one-in-12 applicants passed the test.

    Many students spend money and time attending FAA-sponsored aeronautics colleges, such as Mt. San Antonio College in the San Gabriel Valley city of Walnut. The test is controversial because those students, who would normally have a big advantage getting into air controller training, are put on the same footing as applicants off the street who may apply with just three years of solid work experience in any field.

    The new test is intended to broaden the pool of air traffic controller candidates beyond those who attend the 36 schools that partner with the FAA, U.S. Transportation Secretary Anthony Foxx said in a congressional hearing this year.

    In 2012, the FAA and the Civil Rights Division of the U.S. Department of Justice analyzed the barriers that women and minorities face when trying to get jobs at the FAA. It found only five percent of the air traffic controller applicants coming from the FAA partnership schools were African-American.

    https://www.scpr.org/blogs/politics/2014/04/18/16419/most-air-traffic-control-applicants-fail-new-faa-p/

  162. Crimson2 says:
    @Non sequitur

    Denied access to building?

    It’s pretty low IQ to deny that Jim Crow happened.

    • Replies: @Non sequitur
  163. @MikeatMikedotMike

    Good thing the Mass. 54th Colored Infantry single handily defeated Lee’s Army of Northern Virginia or the Tuskeegee Airmen would not have had the chance to defeat Hitler’s Luftwaffe in the span of four and a half months.

  164. Crimson2 says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    If you think the Flynn Effect is wrong, then you basically don’t believe in IQ testing. And that’s not surprising given that you are citing a movie as evidence of something.

    But Trump IS closer to President Camacho than anyone else so far, so that’s a point in your favor.

  165. @theMann

    This is how we know how Greece, the center of philosophy, science and art of Europe since became the modern-day capital of of cutting edge philosophy, science and art; the same laws of immutability also prevented their subsequent conquest by Roman legions.

  166. @Non sequitur

    Laughing. Nice try.

    exchange go-cart for access — which is guarantee for every citizen.

    I don’t think yo comprehend the value of metaphor. But nonetheless, just for fun, if you take the time to to actually read the comments and the conversation, you will find adequate a support that intellectual capital developed by blacks was confiscated by whites. Access to such processes as filing patents . . . .

    Anyone living in the US is lucky.

    Never fails, the all too irrelevant turn to IQ which has nothing to do with rights as citizens. I am not sure I am making a case for complete unfairness. But it’s safe to say that if you think the discussion is based on IQ, then you are in the wrong ball park.

    The issues are quite clear and the premises about black intellectual capacity and development have are demonstrably false. Since IQ sociopathy rests on the similar premises, it’s a safe bet they are also false.

    Look IO have a very low IQ, however, even I know that to make a link to genetics and biology, you will have to come up with the biological markers to make that case and furthermore account for the relevant environmental factors as they impact to trigger, stimulate and propel the same. Given your arguments thus far – its a safe bet you don’t understand how argument is built, grasp how tpo apply the same or comprehend what is at issue.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  167. @Jesse James

    The war was nearly over when the US entered it in Europe – Germany had stalled. Nonetheless,

    http://www.historynet.com/tuskegee-airmen

    It might be a good idea not to miss the point of the discussion. And it is not about how many black pilots were permitted to fly nor when. But, I am sure you are not blaming the black squadrons for the rather peculiar notions held by whites in terms of entering combat. Squadrons don’t make those decisions.

    I may be conservative, but I am not going to hold bad decisions by white stakeholders against said squadrons — I take it you are entirely unfamiliar with how the military command structure and politics work.

    But I get it — when you are losing the argument — make it about something else.

    • Replies: @Jesse James
  168. anonymous[207] • Disclaimer says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    Why do you need “biological markers?” Did horse breeders have specific “biological markers” when they bred fast horses for racehorses? For hundreds of years they bred horses successfully, with no way to look at their organs or other biological artifacts without killing the animal, and yet they created incredible breeds.

    They just tested performance, which is exactly what you do with anything or anyone else.

    • Agree: Stonehands
  169. Fran800 says:
    @Realist

    It’s something that interacts with pollywannacrackerine.

  170. Anonymous[392] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Lol. Who do you think is doing the scientific research here in America? It is East Asians. So the comparison is a poor one.

    Also, it doesn’t make sense to compare the US with East Asia without normalizing for economic output. One of the reasons why America is so dominate in science for right now is merely because America has more money and it’s people more leisure time due to the Petro dollar.

    That isn’t going to carry over in the future.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  171. Anonymous[392] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Whites do not have an advantage in innovation.

    You can say whites had an advantage in the last 200 years or so, but that is based on a lot of things beside something that is inate.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  172. Anonymous[392] • Disclaimer says:
    @Frederick V. Reed

    Karlin so wants you to be this straw man he has created of you so you will be easier to beat. He does this all the time with people he disagrees with.

  173. Anonymous[392] • Disclaimer says:
    @anon

    Karlin only looks for data that confirms his opinions. So he likely doesn’t care what you said.

  174. Anonymous[392] • Disclaimer says:
    @Alfa158

    Thomm is from India so he doesn’t understand the context.

    • Replies: @Thomm
  175. @Hannah Katz

    Anyone who says “little more than a trade school” as a pejorative, is a little dumber than a fuckwit.

    One of the tremendous things about ‘the trades’ is that they are the most important avenue – bar none – for improving the skills and economic outlooks of people who are not suited for tertiary education.

    I just Googled who “Sheldon Cooper” is – he’s a fictional character who is the Dummies version of what smart people are like. So I get it – the line is a second-quintile intellect’s guess at what a top-percentile smartass might say (because anyone with an IQ above 130 speaks solely in one-liners and ‘zingers’, apparently. Not in my experience, but whateverrrrr).

    How the fuck anyone with an IQ above 80 watches that bilge is beyond me, but I do realise that tastes are highly subjective (I’m about to watch the latest eps of “Fear the Walking Dead” and “Westworld”, so, y’know… pot, this is kettle: how copy over?).

    • Replies: @Truth
  176. @anonymous

    The ‘biologial markers’ were the historical performance of horses in the breeding stock’s lineage.

    It’s far less precise than selecting based on genomes (assuming that links between genes and performance are identifiable, and genuine… and not just some grad student trying to make bank with another ‘science is magic’ p-hacked fake study).

  177. @anonymous

    I think you just made my point concerning the veracity of the claim and the methodology you claim supports.

    But as previously noted — the issues being discussed are not about IQ and IQ has no relevance, excuse my politeness in entertaining the notion. A can of rubber worms I’d rather leave in the can for the moment.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  178. @Flavius

    The real problem with trying to make up for wrongs done two hundred years ago, is that it’s impossible. All the people who were involved are long since dead.

    The people alive now are affected by law changes as either beneficiaries or as the abused.
    The people at the top who run things decided that they wanted to do something for the poor unfortunates who couldn’t seem to get a break, and they did.
    The fact that they replaced pro white discrimination with pro black discrimination is neither here nor there, the fact is that they were able flex their dictatorial muscles.

    It always was about control and showing everybody just who was boss. And quite possibly, revenge. Wallace stood in the schoolhouse door. Eisenhower showed him who was boss.
    Just ask yourself who it is that you can’t criticize. In public. Better yet, ask Roseanne.

  179. Anon[436] • Disclaimer says:
    @Realist

    You are a pathetic little man who has to resort to misplaced attempts at pedantry for a simulation of wit. Unlike you Fran800 got it right and doesn’t have to cover the nakedness of a wannabe intellectual. To confirm the picture of your dwarfish personality I did a search to see if what your last paragraph asserted (already negated by my lack of memory of any reply by you to my comments) was more than pathetic pissing in the wind. Negative. So, if you don’t want to crawl under a rock and just forget your latest vain and foolish utterance, see if you can find this great comment of yours of which you boast. I’m waiting, but that’s because I’m cruel to the weak: I’m sure there’ll only be a yawn directed your way by others.

    • Replies: @Realist
    , @Realist
  180. anonymous[164] • Disclaimer says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    Your “politeness” in demonstrating that you’re an idiot who cannot distinguish between equality of opportunity and equality of outcome is the can of “rubber worms” that you want to leave behind, while being utterly incapable of understanding that record of performance is easily a record of markers and innate capability.

    Affirmative action is gimmedats and you can’t shake your addiction to it. For all practical purposes, its worsening the innate capability by further promoting the propagation of those among your race with less cognitive capability.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  181. @EliteCommInc.

    I am quite familiar with how the US’ public perception has been skewed by Hollywood’s Afro-centric propaganda and revisionist American triumphalism to include Ivy League Cult-Marx diversity when there was none. You are apparently a victim of it.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  182. Thomm says:
    @Anonymous

    BzzzzT…….wrong.

    I understand it better than you do, because I am a normal white guy, and you are a WN wigger.

  183. @Intelligent Dasein

    You drank brandy and read organic chemistry as a teen?

  184. Anon[298] • Disclaimer says:
    @Thomm

    The meaning of the word changed around 1994.

    From what to what? Please explain and provide supporting documentation.

  185. @RealAmerican

    The women in the bar scene usually are a little light on the irresistable side and a little bit heavy on the scale.

  186. @Anonymous

    I have always wondered why other Asians are so triggered by the possibility that whites might be more innovative overall; there’s certainly an excellent case to be made for it given current and historical trends which hold up under analysis.

    At any rate, regardless of its truth(or lack of thereof), isn’t the appropriate tack to consider to study it and attempt to understand the roots of creativity and innovation further? If there is an issue, then good, we will understand that better and hopefully forge toward a solution(if worthwhile). If not, then more understanding is still better at the end of the day.

    • Replies: @anon
    , @Anonymous
  187. Truth says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    This is what the data says, Bro, White IQ has increased by 30 points over the last 100 years. So the average IQ 100 years ago was 70.

    Are you saying that IQ data, and therefore tests, are garbage?

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  188. Truth says:
    @Kratoklastes

    How the fuck anyone with an IQ above 80 watches that bilge is beyond me, but I do realise that tastes are highly subjective (I’m about to watch the latest eps of “Fear the Walking Dead” and “Westworld”, so, y’know… pot, this is kettle: how copy over?).

    Yup, all three shows are shit.

  189. anon[204] • Disclaimer says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    Any black who can do long division is instantly recruited to Harvard as “best and brightest”, however since that number is so low, Harvard is now forced to accept those who can do long division with a calculator.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  190. anon[204] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mj

    Kudos to the Chinese boy who studies on Saturday night. He’s not missing out on a damn thing. If American white kids want to party their youth away then do so, by all means. But, when the excitements of youth fade, and those white kids grow up to become overweight forty-somethings with BA in Psychology pulling in a whopping 32K per year I hope they blame themselves and not the tide from the east.

    If the East and Easterners are so great, why do they keep flooding to the west?

    • Replies: @Jesse James
    , @Mj
  191. George says:

    “Blacks contribute nothing”

    What about music? That’s called ‘soft power’ by the inside the beltway crowd.

  192. @anonymous

    First, I don’t think I have referenced my skin color. It is totally irrelevant on the question at hand.

    Second, even genetic researchers have yet to comprehend the relevant impacts of environment to biology — most are quite frank on that question.

    Third, it’s very obvious that genetics plays a role in all manner of human existence and behaviors. Some we kn ow are static/steady state based on a very particular genetic coding. We are less certain, almost in the dark about steady state dynamic for non tangibles.

    Fourth, in your eagerness to beset name calling, you have ventured off into the wees concerning the conversation on AA.

    Fifth and perhaps most importantly, your spate in the weeds has clouded what my position is concerning capability to d development, and as my comments demonstrate any argument that blacks by definition from below the sahara desert are incapable of higher intellectual processes such as math has been successfully refuted.

    The issue of AA and about which you are hyperventilating has been addressed on multiple dimensions from in some surface discussion as to its build, , intent, eventual application and miss application — most of which has advantaged white women, hispanic women, and foreigners, most white or light enough to be part and parcel to white ambitions on maintaining the social system they have harbored for themselves. I guess saying for the dominant skin color would be more descriptive and less inflammatory.

    To my knowledge I don’t have any addictions save perhaps to my own bitterness, but that has no relevance to this matter.

  193. @anon

    no university that i know of uses a single standard for entry. I suspect that you are just making hay.

  194. @Jesse James

    I certainly enjoy hollywood films. But any relationship that i might desire with the community is blunted, dashed, destroyed, impossible, because I hold views that are reprehensible to that community. Most conservatives do. Mostly they would like me to die a slow and painful death – the sooner the better.

    But I have not referenced any hollywood films on the question of the issue.

    I think what you mean is that we are learning a lot more about blacks that was heretofore unknown to most people and a food deal of that is based on the record of history. I had no idea that Virginia had a black physics instructor in 1872.

    • Replies: @Jesse James
  195. anon[204] • Disclaimer says:
    @CCZ

    So decolonization has now come to science. According to this woman decolonization of science means to take out all the “western” science and teach science from an African perspective, like explaining the voodoo black magic that says you can send lighting to strike someone.

    I think she has a point. It makes no sense teaching science to people who can’t even understand basic math. Africans are people who only know how to consume, they have zero capacity to understand, build, grow or develop anything they consume. The best thing we could do for Africa is to decolonize completely, take away all the modernity brought on by science and colonialism, let these people return to wondering buck naked in the African jungles with bones in their noses, it’s the way they are meant to live. Africans are not meant to live like modern humans. Stop torturing these poor people.

  196. anon[204] • Disclaimer says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Of course the best and brightest in China are still coming in droves, they get here after getting their undergrad degree in China, then come here for their master’s, which only takes 2 years, a lot cheaper than the 4 years undergrad plus they get priority for H1b. The rich but dull ones come for undergrad. All are looking at the degree as their ticket out of China.

    Same with Indians, but thanks to the Indian outsourcers, Indians don’t even have to come here to get a degree anymore, they can just go to whichever diploma mill they can get into in India, all are cheap and 3rd rate, then bullshit their way into Infosys or TCS, and get sent to the US on H1b/L1/B1, and never leave. At least 500,000 Indians are in the US illegally.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    , @Okechukwu
  197. anon[204] • Disclaimer says:
    @megabar

    Asians aren’t doing better than whites because they live in low trust societies, where everyone is always trying to rip everyone else off. As soon as you invent something, someone steals the idea and cashes in on it before you do. Poor IP protection and a corrupt court system leaves you with no recourse. It takes away the incentive to invent.

    Contrast that with the west, where we all know our place. Asians and whites do all the work, Jews take all the credit at the top, with Indians as middle managers, throw a few bones to the women and minorities to appease the diversicrats. No argument necessary.

  198. anon[204] • Disclaimer says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    South Koreans are particularly devoid of creativity. All the Hyundai cars look like direct copies of Mercedes. K-pop is just like our boy bands. Their cuisine esp. lacks creativity, everything is served in a hot bowl of spicy red soup, their culinary creativity doesn’t go far beyond waffle in the shape of a fish or in the shape of turd. Really pathetic.

  199. @anon

    You have no idea what you’re talking about. The main reason to get a US degree for most Chinese students is not to stay in the US but to increase their salary back in China(“hairy crab”); as it becomes a poorer investment, it becomes less popular. Those who wish to stay in the US are usually doing so due to a desire for higher pay, which also is only sometimes true now.

    A hypothetical “best and brightest” with a Tsinghua degree in something like machine learning has no real reason to come to the US; he’s basically max’ed out his salary for someone out of college. The US isn’t likely to pay him more than $100k; he’ll make the same in China, but with much better purchasing parity.

    The primary consideration for most young people is heavily economic.

    • Replies: @myself
  200. Realist says:
    @Anon

    I did a search to see if what your last paragraph asserted (already negated by my lack of memory of any reply by you to my comments) was more than pathetic pissing in the wind. Negative.

    So all this acerbic ad hominem attack is a product of your sick mind.

    I’m sure there’ll only be a yawn directed your way by others.

    It’s so gracious of you to speak for others.
    I see you are hiding behind a disclaimer, you’re a weasel.

    Try Ex Lax it’ll clear your mind.

  201. Okechukwu says:
    @anon

    Of course the best and brightest in China are still coming in droves, they get here after getting their undergrad degree in China, then come here for their master’s, which only takes 2 years, a lot cheaper than the 4 years undergrad plus they get priority for H1b. The rich but dull ones come for undergrad. All are looking at the degree as their ticket out of China.

    Yeah, right. Yet every year thousands of Chinese students are expelled from US universities and deported for cheating, poor grades and general academic incompetence.

    How an industry helps Chinese students cheat their way into and through U.S. colleges

    https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/college-cheating-iowa/

    How Sophisticated Test Scams From China Are Making Their Way Into the U.S.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2016/03/how-sophisticated-test-scams-from-china-are-making-their-way-into-the-us/474474/

    Chinese Students Arrested for Cheating on TOEFL Exam

    https://learningenglish.voanews.com/a/chinese-students-arrested-toefl/3839870.html

    U.S. COLLEGES EXPELLED AS MANY AS 8,000 CHINESE STUDENTS IN 3 YEARS

    http://www.newsweek.com/us-colleges-expelled-many-8000-chinese-students-3-years-337445

    Unfortunately, they don’t catch all the cheats. What this culture of cheating does is it leaves the Chinese woefully unprepared when they leave the classroom and join industry. As my wife’s experiences with Chinese “scientists” at her lab can attest, their grasp of the subject matter for which they’ve received doctoral degrees is often incredibly insufficient.

  202. Realist says:
    @Anon

    Unlike you Fran800 got it right and doesn’t have to cover the nakedness of a wannabe intellectual.

    Fran800 comment was made in jest, unlike yours made from stupidity. You are an ignorant little prick.

    This will be my last response to anons or anonymous posters who hide behind a disclaimer….get a pseudonym or get ignored

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  203. @anon

    Why do rich American kids go to Italy and France to “study” and receive a language or art history degree from a foreign university or to Africa’s backwards pit toilet countries for college credit hours? Because their wealthy parents have the money. The world’s wealthy spending habits are indeed universal and not new. How did you miss that?

  204. @Truth

    What IQ data? Where does this 30 points in 100 years come from?! That would mean people 100 years ago were retards on average. That’s not even close to believable.

    I haven’t read anything by Crimson before, but Truth, come on, that is the most retarded thing I’ve read from you….

    .
    .
    .
    .

    … in a long time.

    • Replies: @Crimson2
    , @Truth
  205. @EliteCommInc.

    That is your own personal mental problem if you are blunted or dashed and cannot enjoy some ‘community’. You are convinced that you must find in Afro-centric propaganda a few alleged historical anomalies which you may make equal with significant academic or technical achievement. You are practicing mindless PC sophistry.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  206. Mj says:
    @anon

    I don’t think they’re “so great.” Let me clarify: young whites, particularly young men of lower SE status, could learn a thing or two from the behaviors of East Asians. Notably in regards to academics and the consequent economic benefits that result. I was responding to the comical statement that American females are irresistible (his word, not mine) and this leads young American men to waste crucial years chasing after them.

  207. @Jesse James

    Hmmmmmm . . .,

    I don’t have any idea what you are on about,

    ” . . . blunted or dashed and cannot enjoy some ‘community’,” these comments are bizarre and not relevant to our discussion. If you mean the hollywood community, i think my position is pretty clear. If i were politically correct, i doubt anyone in hollywood would wish for my demise as they currently do.

    you are humorous.

    You missed the topic of discussion, you ignored the relevant data to the discussion, the data is neither PC or in any manner prose for the sake of prose. A premise was made concerning skin color and mathematics, in this case higher mathematical thinking, I provided examples that rebutted the premise and i did so with examples that span certain periods in history. It required no gymnastics, and required making nothing up.

    Now I am sure that making assumptions about my skin color, my politics, my personal attributes is all well and good , but they don’t address the counter examples. Enough to make clear that b;lacks below the subsharan desert are more than capable of supposed higher intellectual processing.” But having jumped into a deep end in which you are floundering, you missed the most important points of the discussion which is about

    AA –

    what it is

    what it was designed to to do
    how it was implemented
    who benefited
    and who remain the primary beneficiaries

    all of which is about the 1st amendment rights of “redress greivences” something about which intellectual capacity is utterly irrelevant.

    You also by failing to review the conversation before commenting missed my view of AA which differs profoundly from anything even most blacks understand about the program. I got off the blame the black man band wagon based on the data of who benefited , more than 25 years ago. now I understand how that bandwagon is helpful to ginning up votes, but it is based on falsehood. I learned long ago — effective management requires operating on accurate data.

    When presented with the data your chose was make personal attacks and change the subject. n The Tuskegee institute is not responsible for based management choices made by the US military based on falsehood.

    operating on accurate information is never, just pc.

    I do my best to operate from data, not how i feel, would might want try that sometime. A claven of people all screaming the same falsehoods won’t make it any more accurate. I am not easily intimidated by politicians, blacks, whites, rich, poor, connected, wise, unwise, jews, muslims, christians — the arguments are what tey are — either they make sense to the data or they do not.

  208. Crimson2 says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    It’s the Flynn Effect. Look it up.

  209. myself says:
    @sayless

    I’m not. I asked around.

    You “asked around“?

    Doesn’t that mean that you care what others think?

    If you care what others think, doesn’t that then mean you’re a con . . . . ah hell, never mind.

  210. myself says:
    @Truth

    Bring on the Chinese competitors

    …Be careful what you wish for, Sporti-Boy, you just might get it.

    Starting to happen, seeing it right about now.

  211. Ahmed34 says:

    Fred,
    Sometimes you write well, other times you don’t. But somehow I thought you were fairminded. I can see now I was mistaken in thinking that. And here is your unfairness:
    You enslaved the blacks in America for centuries. Given how the American schools are funded, property tax, you never gave the blacks decent schools, or decent teachers, or decent education. And now you blame the blacks on America’s decline!! Where is the logic or fairness in that?

    Whites always thought they were smarter than other races. Nobody could challenge them when they were technologically more advanced. But now that other races the Japanese, the Chinese, the Koreans, etc. have mastered the technological know how, and China is becoming or already is the most dominant country in the world, the whites are so terrified! And when they think about why is there country lagging, or why China has catched up with them and passed so quickly, they don’t find an answer. and what do they do? They take the lazy path and blame the blacks and the affirmative action.

    If you want the real reason why America is lagging, and why China is ascending, it has nothing to do with political correctness–a perfect alibi for those who ruined America–and has every thing to do with the top leadership of the country. China has able, determined, and dedicated leaders, but America does not. If you want America to recover, fix the leadership problem at the top, and invest resources to educate poor blacks, Latinos, and poor whites. However, if you give billions of dollars of tax cuts to the richest Americans, and to big corportaions, and America’s highest leaders give 29 standing ovations to Binjamin Netanyahu, how can you compete with China? You can’t.

  212. @Crimson2

    It’s even lower iq to deny evolution happened and happens

    Get over it and make evolution work in your favor and increase the smart fraction of black Pop and as the Mexicans say: get off my zacate

    https://goo.gl/images/jQYdFz

  213. myself says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    Well, I think the stereotype among mainland Chinese goes like this:

    The best and most talented stay at home to attend top-tier institutions, second-best go to school in North America, Europe and Australia, and the level below that attend science and engineering universities in developed Asia (Singapore, South Korea, Japan etc).

    For whatever reason, Chinese are now beginning to trust the quality of their own schools.

    Barring being qualified to attend a good program at home, places like Germany, the US, Britain and France continue to command respect among Chinese.

    Singaporean, South Korean and Japanese institutions are considered (by mainlanders) to be rigorous and well-resourced, but extremely rigid and stifling in terms of creativity and originality (even in comparison to schools in China, which is saying something).

    • Replies: @res
  214. @Okechukwu

    ‘…White privilege and white supremacy are much more powerful than Affirmative Action in putting stupid, incompetent and unqualified people into position…’

    My experience has definitely been the reverse. It can’t be guaranteed, but as a rule, the white or Asian people I encounter are competent at their jobs. The same is true of Hispanics if we’re talking about some field unaffected by affirmative action; foreman in a lumber yard, auto repair or carpentry, for example.

    Thanks to affirmative action, blacks are incompetent with astonishing consistency. This isn’t to say that they’re inherently incompetent; just that they’ve been usually promoted beyond their level of competence thanks to their skin color. The black who would make a decent bank teller is an incompetent loan officer. The black who could handle being a nurse is an incompetent doctor; while the black who could be a decent custodian is now blowing it as a nurse. The black who could be whatever Apple calls their counter staff in an Apple Store is elevated to store manager — and promptly makes a hash of every problem that arises. There was even a certain black who always struck me as being about good enough to be a state assemblyman who became President — and the weakest president we’ve had since at least Herbert Hoover.

    One learns — always avoid the black. This isn’t a function of racism; I am racist, but I’ve worked perfectly comfortably with blacks who are in fact competent at their jobs. It’s a function of affirmative action; it’s like the Peter Principle on drugs. A black will tend to get promoted to a position well beyond his level of competence on the basis of his skin color – and then kept in that position, regardless of his demonstrated ineptitude, because of his skin color.

  215. @anon

    You are confusing “better” with “more highly recognized”.

  216. Anonymous[370] • Disclaimer says:
    @Realist

    Sorry you don’t like anonymous truth tellers who don’t kid themselves pathetically by hiding their anonymity in a boastful pseudonym like Realist. But it is surely reasonable to avoid more than casual contact with a blowhard who claims to have given Anon [236] a “verbal ass kicking some time back” but has had to admit tacitly that it was a bragging lie which he has made no attempt to back up when called on it.

    And to add the demeaning of intellect to your demeaned moral character you add, contrary to your newly announced principle, a second reply to the scornful anonymous commenter!

    You even state with total irrelevance that Fran800′s comment was made in jest when the point was that your ponderous first effort missed what she and the previous Anon comment pointed out, namely that *you hadn’t shown any understanding that Fred’s verbiage was in jest*. Duh.

  217. Rurik says:
    @Frederick V. Reed

    assimilate those immigratnts who cannot be deported.

    And confirms my views of Alt-Righters.

    perhaps the problem is your assimilation solution

    you advocate blending with the Mexicans by marriage, don’t you?

    and any reluctance to do so, you mock as ‘gas station louts trying to protect their bodily fluids’,

    don’t you?

    but here’s the problem..

    how do you get Mexicans like George Lopez

    to show a romantic interest in American white women like Lana Lokteff

    when, as she points out in the video, Mexicans have no interest in dating ‘flat ass white whores’?!

    so I hope Fred will contemplate this dilemma. Perhaps the solution is butt implants?

    what do you think Fred…

    how can we get Lana and George together to breed that ‘America of the future’ you advocate?!

    • Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike
  218. @Colin Wright

    AGREED!

    Very good take on that pernicious aspect of Affirmative Action, Mr. Wright.

    May I post this in it’s entirety sometime on Peak Stupidity? (It may be a few days, as I’ve got 4 posts in my head to get to already.)

    • Replies: @Rurik
    , @Colin Wright
  219. @Truth

    I can see lots of BS just in that little blurb. Scores of people tested at age 65 were compared to those of people test at 25 y/o. It reads like a real bullshit article, Truth. I have read of the Flynn effect right here on iSteve. IQ is not “immutable” as is the quick conclusion, but that doesn’t mean it’s not mostly genetic either. Don’t just cherry-pick on small blurb, Truth. Read a few articles on the Flynn effect, and compare methods and conclusions.

    As to the idea that Americans 100 years ago were borderline retards, anyone believing that has not read a lick of American history. People are definitely on the stupidity side versus their century-ago ancestors, twitter-tweets notwithstanding … actually, twitter-tweets as proof. Just at one level now (and NOT saying the US president is SUPPOSED to be the best and the brightest) for an example, compare the speech of a Roosevelt (either), Coolidge, or Hoover, vs. a Bush, Øb☭ma, or Trump.

    • Replies: @Truth
  220. Harbinger says:
    @Okechukwu

    “White privilege and white supremacy are much more powerful than Affirmative Action in putting stupid, incompetent and unqualified people into position. How does a guy like George W. Bush become president of the most powerful country in the world? How about Trump?”

    I’m frankly amazed that you’ve posed the above questions.
    You think this is ‘white’ privilege? Just what, about the elections of Bush & Trump, did they’re presidency privilege any white people? Although not from the USA, but the UK, I follow America with interest, because it is a world power, having taken over the reigns from my nations. You are clearly mistaking white privilege with Jewish privilege, which along with black and minority privilege, is the only privilege in the USA.

    “How far would a black Trump get? I dare say, a black Trump would be working in a dockyard somewhere.”

    What an utterly preposterous statement. Were there any black Trumps, I can guarantee you, they’d be in office faster than you could say “grab her by the pussy”. And how on earth would a Black Tump, worth billions EVER be working in a dockyard? A black Trump would, oddly enough, be doing what a white Trump would be doing – making money and brown nosing Zionists.

    “Many of the problems we’ve faced and continue to face are the result of dumb and ignorant whites in positions of power and influence while smarter, more capable and more talented non-whites have systematically been denied access.”

    Again, you’re not very knowledgeable on politics are you? Do you truly think the powers that be want hard working, critically thinking individuals working in politics? Do you really think they want people to question their policies? Why do you think Abraham Lincoln never saw the end of the play he was watching? Why do you think that JFK never finished his car journey? People who aspire in the fields of politics are puppets. They are treason committing, yes men, sycophants in positions of power, only to do the bidding of their bosses, who incidentally ARE NOT the millions of people who vote them into power. Ethnicity has nothing whatsoever to with politics. One’s who swears fealty to Chabad Lubavitch and B’nai B’rith does. Don’t believe me?

    Link: Cynthia McKinney: US Lawmakers FORCED to Support Israel!

    “And virtually all the work in STEM fields in Nigeria is done by blacks. So?”

    So why has affirmative action not been introduced in Nigeria for white people? Why, for example, out of a population of nearly 200 million people are there only some 50,000 whites? This makes up around 0.0001% of the population. Take the USA, where the population of blacks makes up some 13% of the population at around 40 odd million. Why, for example don’t we see the immigration of whites into African nations as we do blacks into white? Why don’t we see whites in positions of power as we do blacks in the west? Why, is there no ‘affirmative action’ in Africa?

    You see, it’s really quite simple, black nations are being built up while white nations are destroyed. Israel is behind this plan, or should I correctly state Zionism, as Israel is just a puppet of Rothschild. More and more black immigration is pouring into the west, courtesy of ‘diversity’ which is nothing more than white genocide, with affirmative action being nothing more than black and non white prejudice towards whites.

    Why for example is the sporting world vastly populated by black people who disproportionately represent their racial demographic compared to whites and any other non black ethnicity? Why is there no affirmative action within the sports world for white people?
    This poses an interesting dilemma.
    Why?
    Well if we are to state that blacks are over represented in the sporting world, because they are better, but we don’t acknowledge whites are over represented in academia because they are better then we have clear, cut case of double standards here and more importantly, blatant prejudice towards whites. If you, as you are promoting in your argument are stating that whites are in their positions because of white privilege, then you must also acknowledge that blacks are in their postions in the sporting world because of black privilege. Then again, you could simply realize, as most people with the slightest modicum of common sense do, that people are over represented in any given area, due to their ability at being able to do the job. Women for example are not represented in STEM. Why? It’s because they’d far rather have a career that fits around their life, instead of men whose life fits around their career. And still, feminists cry patriarchal prejudice over women, because there are not enough women in STEM.

    “America will lose its competitive edge unless it takes advantage of the talents of all its people. Smart people understand this.”

    No and your statement clearly proves you’re not that smart.
    America has lost its competitive edge because Zionists have purposefully destroyed US manufacturing, moving industries to China where their utopian, Asian model of how humanity should be is in full practice. To quote George Carlin – “You know what they want? They want obedient workers, people who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork. And just dumb enough to passively accept all these increasingly shitty jobs with the lower pay, the longer hours, the reduced benefits…..”
    It isn’t just in the US, but happening all over Europe. While the west ships off all its industries to the sweat shops of India and China, paying slave labour wages, while selling the products at continually increasing prices in the west, it ships over non skilled immigrants who drive down wages, increase unemployment, bring about civil chaos and allow more and more minority organizations to spring up (created by Jews) to fight for their rights, which incidentally is nothing more than ‘screw the blue eyed devils’ and destroy their cultures, nations and peoples. We have affirmative action here in the UK too. It’s called positive discrimination, an oxymoron, but nobody seems to notice that, as it would be racist to point it out.

    “Just as there were black geniuses toiling away on slave plantations, there are today black geniuses without the means or opportunity to express their genius.”

    No there were no black geniuses toiling away on slave plantations. You seem to be incredibly good at trying to promote cultural Marxism aren’t you? There were workers on the plantations who hadn’t been a genius at anything, other than picking cotton and other jobs that they did. Leonardo da Vinci was a genius. Mozart was a genius. William Shakespeare was a genius. Nikolai Tesla was a genius…… And do you know why they were geniuses? Their achievements prove their genius.
    There has been no black geniuses in the history of Africa. PERIOD! And yet this large continent has existed for thousands of years. We are told it is the beginning of all humanity, again, more propaganda, from the Jewish controlled academia and msm.
    The simple fact is this. Those blacks who have achieved have done so in WHITE civilizations. There are no geniuses in the fields of science, technology, engineering, maths, literature, arts, music, philosophy, architecture etc remotely comparable to any of those within the white race. Don’t get me wrong, Louis Armstrong, Count Basie, Duke Ellington, Scott Joplin were great artists in music, but nowhere near comparable to the classical musicians of Europe. They have achieved in boxing, athletics, American football, soccer, baseball…etc but then you don’t really need much intelligence to achieve at that, merely the ability to practice and get better. To be good at sports you simply need to push your body to its maximum and some and everyone can achieve this, unless born with a disability to restrict this. And I’m sorry to say that blacks ARE born with a disability to succeed in those establishments outside of sports, music and other entertainments. It’s called IQ. You either have it or you don’t.

    “It’s society’s duty to ameliorate the conditions that produce those conditions.”

    And why is it not happening within most countries outside of the west? Why is it that if it is, it has taken the leading example of the white nations to achieve this? Why is it that Zimbabwe never implemented this philosophy, or South Africa, today that is?

    Look, Okechukwu, you either face reality or you don’t. Black people achieve when they accept white culture and civilization values. When they don’t we have Detroit – a once beautiful city when it was 98% white and now 93% or so black it’s a desolate wasteland, sinking in crime and corruption, not producing generations to be proud of, but instead thugs, prostitutes, rapists and murderers and ironically had millions thrown at it, by the Democrats and allowed blacks to take complete control of the running of it. And it’s failed. And of course, on queue, it’s ‘whitey’s fault’ because of slavery…….

    As to the article, affirmative action is blatant prejudice toward white people and nothing more. You will find millions of qualified white people, for STEM and other industries, working in low paid jobs, courtesy of being passed over for the positions they sought, because of ‘affirmative action’. Here in the UK, the BBC, now employs minorities, turning down white people for jobs within. It is nothing more than white race, hating, propaganda outlet for the equally white hating politicians in Westminster. The fact that you are incapable of seeing the blatant hatred towards white people being implemented today, show that instead of part of the solution, you are clearly part of the problem.

    • Replies: @Okechukwu
    , @Them Guys
  221. @Colin Wright

    My experience has definitely been the reverse. It can’t be guaranteed, but as a rule, the white or Asian people I encounter are competent at their jobs. The same is true of Hispanics if we’re talking about some field unaffected by affirmative action; foreman in a lumber yard, auto repair or carpentry, for example.

    The failure — the absolute failure — of Affirmative Action — is that it has established itself as a determining factor, in the minds of negros, assuring them of employment, despite all demonstration of incompetence. Thus, “merit” never enters the equation, as negros know they will get gubmint and corporate jobs, regardless.

    The net effect has been to make negros even more shiftless, and less achievement-oriented, than ever before. That is, AA has achieved the exact opposite of what was intended.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  222. Truth says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Excepting half of a a theory is accepting none of it.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  223. @Herman

    I think they are a bunch of faggy SJWs.

  224. @Rurik

    The answer is rape, of course.

  225. @Achmed E. Newman

    ‘May I post this in its entirety…’

    Yes! Feel free. Thanks. Etc.

  226. Harbinger says:

    Interestingly enough, should anyone care to watch the movie American History X you’ll find blatant affirmative action within, which led to the firing of the main character played by Edward Norton’s father’s two work colleagues in favour of two blacks. He complained at the breakfast table to the family stating that in doing so, people’s lives were at risk, not just those in burning buildings but work colleagues due to incompetency and not skilled at the job. This is the main part of the film where the main character stated later, this was when the racism began.

    This is Hollywood at its best when indoctrinating the public. It officially told them, in that one film: _”there is absolutely nothing wrong with giving black people jobs over white people when they don’t have the necessary qualification and skills to do that job, regardless whether people’s lives are at risk.”_

    And no one EVER comments on this blatant piece of Hollywood propaganda. The whole film, other than that was a celebration of black criminality over white people and any white who defended himself was a racist.
    It is an utterly disgusting piece of propaganda, but then isn’t all?

  227. res says:
    @myself

    The best and most talented stay at home to attend top-tier institutions, second-best go to school in North America, Europe and Australia, and the level below that attend science and engineering universities in developed Asia (Singapore, South Korea, Japan etc).

    How does that break down between undergrad and graduate school? Are the best Chinese staying home for both?

    • Replies: @myself
  228. @manorchurch

    ‘The failure — the absolute failure — of Affirmative Action — is that it has established itself as a determining factor…’

    I agree — although I’m somewhat more sympathetic to blacks than one might think.

    First, they can’t enjoy being put into jobs they can’t perform properly — and in fact, thinking back on it, the black doctors, store managers, etc I crossed swords with were conspicuously defensive. Think about it; how would you feel about being bumped too far upstairs? Would you really say ‘no thanks — I’ll just take a 20k pay cut and go back to what I was doing before?’

    No, you’d probably stick it out — but you wouldn’t have a good time. No one likes doing lousy work.

    Second, when I think about it, I often find blacks perfectly alright — if I’m dealing with them as they are. They’ve even been my boss, and that’s been mighty fine — if they can do the job. It’s when I have to participate in some fantasy that they know what they’re doing when they obviously don’t that I go ballistic.

    This isn’t to say that absent affirmative action that everything would be just mighty fine when it comes to blacks — I’ve got some history here, and those aren’t my sentiments at all. It’s just that affirmative action makes it all so much worse.

  229. @Truth

    Excepting [sic] half of a a theory is accepting none of it.

    That’s a new one. The effect gives neither a 30 pt. rise in Americans’ nor immigrants’ intelligence over the last century. The Flynn effect may have some validity, but not the crazy amount that you and Crimson pulled out of your asses.

    • Replies: @Truth
  230. Sunbeam says:
    @Dr. Doom

    “China has no sense of honor. Their business is China. Their bank is Chinese. The Rothschild Monopoly is hitting the Great Wall of “you not Chinese muthafucka”. They sell missiles to Iran. They make deals with Russia.

    IS IT GOOD FOR CHINA?”

    There is a whole series of posts someone could make analyzing this issue, and what it could mean down the road.

    Instead we are gonna talk about Mexicans.

  231. Okechukwu says:
    @Colin Wright

    My experience has definitely been the reverse. It can’t be guaranteed, but as a rule, the white or Asian people I encounter are competent at their jobs. The same is true of Hispanics if we’re talking about some field unaffected by affirmative action; foreman in a lumber yard, auto repair or carpentry, for example.

    We all have our experiences and anecdotes. I’ve encountered whites and Asians who were too stupid for words and thoroughly incompetent in their positions. You’re saying with a straight face that institutionalized advantage hasn’t put blithering idiot whites into positions that could otherwise be filled by more competent blacks? I know there used to be a saying among blacks that they had to be twice as good as whites, and often they were.

    Hispanic isn’t even a race. And Affirmative Action isn’t a black thing, asi the prime beneficiaries have been white women and white men by extension.

    Thanks to affirmative action, blacks are incompetent with astonishing consistency. This isn’t to say that they’re inherently incompetent; just that they’ve been usually promoted beyond their level of competence thanks to their skin color.

    The world is overrun by dumb whites who make decisions that impact all of our lives. They get there through legacy family connections, good old boy networks and a system that systematically casts a very narrow net that doesn’t encompass a wider array of talent that would otherwise bring much needed brain power to the equation. How many dumb whites are there in banking or Wall Street or in high level government positions? How many dumb whites are on Unz flapping their gums about IQ? Dumb whites are as countless as the stars.

  232. Sunbeam says:
    @Okechukwu

    “The world is overrun by dumb whites who make decisions that impact all of our lives. They get there through legacy family connections, good old boy networks and a system that systematically casts a very narrow net that doesn’t encompass a wider array of talent that would otherwise bring much needed brain power to the equation. How many dumb whites are there in banking or Wall Street or in high level government positions? ”

    Yeah, you’re probably right.

    It’s pretty obvious that you’d do better if you could avoid all that stuff.

    Hey! I got it.

    If you MOVE to a non-white country there’ll be none of that. And you will be so happy.

    So when you going to move to Liberia? Hearing good things about South Africa (blacks call the shots there, got to be Wakanda)?

  233. Okechukwu says:
    @Harbinger

    You think this is ‘white’ privilege? Just what, about the elections of Bush & Trump, did they’re presidency privilege any white people?

    You’re missing the point entirely. The point is that a black man with the same intellectual capacity and innumerable failings of Bush or Trump would never have gotten to first base in the first place, never mind rounding third and sliding into the presidency. That black man would’ve reached the apex of his competency at school janitor or possibly drug store manager. He wouldn’t have had the family connections or generational wealth or artificially unbalanced playing field that would allow him to transcend his severe limitations.

    Again, you’re not very knowledgeable on politics are you? Do you truly think the powers that be want hard working, critically thinking individuals working in politics? Do you really think they want people to question their policies? Why do you think Abraham Lincoln never saw the end of the play he was watching? Why do you think that JFK never finished his car journey? People who aspire in the fields of politics are puppets.

    You’ll find that I’m much more knowledgeable than you. Let’s dispense with the conspiracist Jew under every bed bullshit. Jews don’t go into the voting booth to tell people how to vote. If people are swayed to voting patterns that enhance Jewish power to their own detriment, we ought to credit the stupidity of the voter and not some dark machinations of the Jews. Speaking of which, we have a vast horde of millions of dumb, uneducated, uniformed and profoundly ignorant white voters who time after time burden the world with American politicians who clearly are unfit and often pose an existential threat to the world. Given America’s hyper-power status, it appears that the fate of the world resides in the hands of the so-called white working class voter who probably can’t locate his own state on a map of the United States.

    What was so special about JFK, by the way? Are you suggesting he was some sort of transformational figure? Well he wasn’t. A black JFK would, at best, be driving a bus for a living. Lincoln I get. But JFK?

    So why has affirmative action not been introduced in Nigeria for white people?

    Because they don’t need it. They live like kings there. Don’t ask stupid questions.

    Why, for example, out of a population of nearly 200 million people are there only some 50,000 whites

    Whites are not banned from Nigeria.

    Take the USA, where the population of blacks makes up some 13% of the population at around 40 odd million. Why, for example don’t we see the immigration of whites into African nations as we do blacks into white? Why don’t we see whites in positions of power as we do blacks in the west? Why, is there no ‘affirmative action’ in Africa?

    Jesus, and you think I’m dumb? You’re a prime example of the blithering white idiots I mentioned in my previous post.

    You see, it’s really quite simple, black nations are being built up while white nations are destroyed.

    My god, you’re an idiot.

    Well if we are to state that blacks are over represented in the sporting world, because they are better, but we don’t acknowledge whites are over represented in academia because they are better then we have clear, cut case of double standards here and more importantly, blatant prejudice towards whites.

    Blacks are not over-represented in sports. There is more to sports than football and basketball. Besides, sporting excellence and intellectual acuity are not mutually exclusive. If I could take off from the freethrow line and dunk a basketball, I would still be smarter than you.

    No there were no black geniuses toiling away on slave plantations.

    You know this how? Funny how black geniuses suddenly emerged with the abolition of slavery, even amidst withering racism post-slavery. People like Granville Woods and Elijah McCoy among many others. There were even black slave geniuses:

    With Patents or Without, Black Inventors Reshaped American Industry

    American slaves couldn’t hold property, including patents on their own inventions. But that didn’t stop black Americans from innovating in our country

    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/innovation/with-patents-or-without-black-inventors-reshaped-american-industry-180962201/

    There has been no black geniuses in the history of Africa. PERIOD!

    Name some geniuses in barbarian Briton or barbarian Germany or barbarian France or barbarian Scandinavia. You can’t, can you? Genius going unrealized or unrecognized or unacknowledged is not the same as not existing. And speaking of genius, you definitely aren’t one. The problem we’re having here is that you may be too stupid for this discussion.

    And why is it not happening within most countries outside of the west? Why is it that if it is, it has taken the leading example of the white nations to achieve this? Why is it that Zimbabwe never implemented this philosophy, or South Africa, today that is?

    Who says it isn’t? Most countries strive for this. Zimbabwe and South Africa certainly are. The whole idea behind reclaiming land and resources stolen by white colonialists is to make sure that all citizens have a fair chance to actualize their potential. Immediately after overthrowing the Rhodesian scumbags, Mugabe set about to provide an education to all the citizens of that country. Consequently, Zimbabwe now has a literacy rate of 90%. He then broke up the ill-gotten lands (some of which were the size of small cities) so that those lands could be distributed to landless blacks.

    Black people achieve when they accept white culture and civilization values.

    Nope. Black people should do what’s in their best interests and that comport with their values. Some “white values” are worthy of emulation. Others represent the dregs of the sewer and are to be avoided at all costs.

    As to the article, affirmative action is blatant prejudice toward white people and nothing more.

    But white people are the prime beneficiaries of Affirmative Action, dummy, via white women:

    Affirmative Action Has Helped White Women More Than Anyone

    Their successes make the case not for abandoning affirmative action but for continuing it

    http://ideas.time.com/2013/06/17/affirmative-action-has-helped-white-women-more-than-anyone/

    The average white man on this site has gained far more from Affirmative Action than I have.

    You will find millions of qualified white people, for STEM and other industries, working in low paid jobs, courtesy of being passed over for the positions they sought, because of ‘affirmative action’.

    No you won’t. What you will find are white people too lazy or too unwilling to undergo the arduous academic career necessary for those fields. Also realize that STEM careers don’t always pay well and many white people are looking for the quick hit for big money with the least amount of time spent in school as possible. My wife makes $45K a year as a Post-Doctoral Fellow. Yet I have employees with a only a high-school diploma who make six figures. Even my assistant makes more than my wife and she only has one year of college.

    • Replies: @Harbinger
  234. Harbinger says:
    @Okechukwu

    “The world is overrun by dumb whites who make decisions that impact all of our lives. They get there through legacy family connections, good old boy networks and a system that systematically casts a very narrow net that doesn’t encompass a wider array of talent that would otherwise bring much needed brain power to the equation. How many dumb whites are there in banking or Wall Street or in high level government positions? How many dumb whites are on Unz flapping their gums about IQ? Dumb whites are as countless as the stars.”

    I concur with Sunbeam fully.

    Why do you stay within white society and civilization?
    Why do you not move back to Africa, to live amongst your ancestral culture and your own people?
    Why is it you persist to live among white people?

    Of course, all are rhetorical questions. It is clear to anyone just why blacks choose to live in western society.
    Firstly and the most blindingly obvious is that whites simply do it far better, regardless of all the ‘dumb whites in charge’.
    Secondly, nowhere on this earth will you find a more altruistic people than the whites, who have given billions, out of their earnings to help people from all over the world in times of crisis, even to the impact upon their own society and lives.
    Thirdly, nowhere else, in this world, can blacks achieve great things, than within white civilization.
    Fourthly, nowhere else can black entertainers, from the worlds of sports, music, film and TV hope to earn anywhere near the salaries they do in the west.
    Fifthly, nowhere else in this world can blacks form organization to actively work for the downfall of whites and their civilization.
    Sixthly, nowhere else in this world can blacks live off of the earnings of whites, through welfare cheques.
    Seventhly, nowhere else in this world, other than their own nations, can blacks rise into prominent positions of power and be accepted and respected as members of that society than in white nations.

    The question is, can whites have what blacks have in the west, in other parts of this world, outside of white nations? Well, the answer is of course no. They’re massacring them in South Africa, stealing their land, following suit to Zimbabwe, which is now on the verge of agricultural collapse, ironically begging whites to return and farm the land, the same whites who watched their friends butchered by Mugabe’s veterans.

    The really sad thing about the disparagers of white society and white people, you have overwhelmingly proved as one within your posts is that, out of all the people who have given the slightest consideration for black people, we whites now face castigation and blatant racial hatred from blacks, for allowing them to be part of our society. They are simply incapable of seeing that the sheer vehemence they show to whites illustrates the inherent hatred that boils within black people. It is blacks insane jealousy of white people, their achievements, their beauty, their altruism, they charity their willingness to always seek justice over all else that makes the black hate with the vengeance that they do.

    I disagreed vehemently in any slave trade and how ironic it was the British, yes WHITES, who ended the Jewish, Trans Atlantic Slave Trade and yet slavery still goes on to this day, in Africa and other parts of the world.
    It was without a doubt the worst thing whites were ever involved in, but not for the well being of blacks, good God no, but for whites. The best thing that ever happened to blacks was the slave trade, because it allowed their offspring to be part of the western civilization, to have every opportunity out there, descendants that wouldn’t exist, had they remained in Africa as they would most certainly have been butchered by some rival tribe and been the main course in the after battle celebrations.
    Slavery has destroyed the white nations, something I truly do believe the Jews knew about, very well, while it was happening. Blacks, in the western civilization have brought far more harm to our people and culture than good. You’d have to be an absolute idiot, or a thoroughly brainwashed and/or indoctrinated Marxist to disagree.

    • Troll: Okechukwu
  235. Harbinger says:
    @Okechukwu

    In reply to your last reply of mine.
    There is no point in debating with people who are incapable of truthful discourse. The fact that you do not believe in a Jewish conspiracy, do not believe blacks are over represented in sports and that there were black geniuses proves that you are nothing more than a promoter of Afrocentric nonsense, utterly ignorant on the Jewish question.
    I have already fully replied to your ridiculous comments in my initial reply, a reply that is irrefutable, proving your stupidity in even attempting to refute it. All has been stated that needs to be stated and therefore no game of ridiculous ping pong be made in trying to debate a point that is not debatable.
    I also have better things to do that repeat myself and waste time on, what are effectively, Black Panthers, trying to masquerade as upstanding citizens within American society.

    • Replies: @Okechukwu
  236. Okechukwu says:
    @Harbinger

    You tried to debate me and got your ass kicked. Just surrender with dignity and move on. There hasn’t been a white supremacist moron anywhere that has tried to debate me that I didn’t crush.

    • Replies: @Harbinger
  237. @Okechukwu

    The world is overrun by dumb whites who make decisions that impact all of our lives.

    LOL. Real soon now, your world is going to be overrun by mexicans and equivalents — people who despise negros as shiftless, stupid and lazy.

    Tell THEM, bud. Us whiteys are outahere.

    • Replies: @Truth
    , @CCZ
  238. Harbinger says:
    @Okechukwu

    I suggest you reread my last reply to you. Try and grasp what has been stated. It’s really rather simple. Once you have, you will understand that you never ‘ass kicked’ me whatsoever. You have no argument, for it was thoroughly refuted and therefore no need of another reply. And again, another Afrocentric who believe those who speak the truth about black people and who wish not to associate with them are white supremacists. However, ironically, history, has proven, overwhelmingly that whites have supremely triumphed in ever field possible, over blacks.
    White supremacy, over other peoples is a historical fact. Take it as you will.

    • Replies: @Okechukwu
    , @Colin Wright
  239. Truth says:
    @manorchurch

    LOL. Real soon now, your world is going to be overrun by people who despise negros as shiftless, stupid and lazy.

    So nothing’s going to change?

    • Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike
    , @res
  240. CCZ says:
    @manorchurch

    You can add the Chinese to the list. And they are neo-colonizing Africa as well!

    • Replies: @Okechukwu
  241. Okechukwu says:
    @Harbinger

    I suggest you not expect me to buy into your delusional and unabashedly idiotic white supremacist ideology when even the overwhelming majority of white people reject it. I certainly don’t know any whites who believe as you believe and I know a multitude of whites. Even you wouldn’t express these absurd views in the real world under your real identity. So why are you triggered and seemingly flabbergasted that I of all people won’t embrace them?

    You and your ilk are profoundly embarrassing to normal, rational whites. Moreover, they are keenly aware of the incalculable damage your ideology has caused and they are loathe to see it gain even a smidgen of mainstream momentum. This is why its mostly whites who take the initiative in confronting you people. Go to any white supremacist rally and you’ll notice that the counterprotesters are overwhelmingly white. At times they outnumber you people up to 10,000 to 1.

    Sorry to rain on your circle-jerk parade. I’m sure here on Unz you’re accustomed to sober nods of approval and pats on the back whenever you would recite your litany of ahistorical, untruthful and unscientific bullshit. I usually don’t waste my time debating white supremacist nitwits like you because it’s tantamount to trying to debate an ISIS jihadist. But I had a little bit of free time today so I decided to clean your clock.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @Them Guys
  242. Okechukwu says:
    @CCZ

    You can add the Chinese to the list. And they are neo-colonizing Africa as well!

    LOL. The whole China is colonizing Africa narrative is a white suprematard wet dream. Here’s what’s really going on:

    Dozens of Chinese crime suspects deported from Angola

    http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/26/world/africa/angola-chinese-deported/index.html

    Ghana deports thousands in crackdown on illegal Chinese goldminers

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/15/ghana-deports-chinese-goldminers

    Nigeria To Deport Chinese Migrants Engaged In Illegal Trading

    http://www.ibtimes.com/nigeria-deport-chinese-migrants-engaged-illegal-trading-699724

    Chinese immigrants deported from Zimbabwe

    https://bulawayo24.com/index-id-news-sc-national-byo-11473.html

    Chinese duo caught with rhino horn and ivory fined and deported from South Africa

    https://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/chinese-duo-caught-with-rhino-horn-and-ivory-fined-and-deported-20170203

    A Zimbabwe politician says all the Chinese in his country should be deported

    https://qz.com/686091/a-zimbabwe-politician-says-all-the-chinese-in-his-country-should-be-deported/

    Chinese deported for eating up endangered Zimbabwean wildlife

    http://www.jukani.co.za/chinese-eat-up-zimbabwe%E2%80%99s-endangered-wildlife_article_op_view_id_71

    Since when does a “colonial master” have its citizens routinely rounded up and deported?

    • LOL: Truth, manorchurch
    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @CCZ
    , @RobRich
  243. @Okechukwu

    ‘…You’re saying with a straight face that institutionalized advantage hasn’t put blithering idiot whites into positions that could otherwise be filled by more competent blacks?’

    I’d say I could say that with a straight face. I’ve personally witnessed two hiring/retention decisions in which race played a part. In the first, when I was a substitute teacher, I was held over to fill a vacant position for the last three months of the school year; I was told (and I quote) that I would be rehired ‘if a black or Hispanic candidate couldn’t be found for the position.’

    The second instance was when I worked for the FAA. They were normally (you’ll be happy to hear) quite rigorous about who they retained or did not retain among their air traffic controller candidates. They did have one black female candidate however. She was manifestly and spectacularly incompetent, but they kept giving her one more chance…

    Maybe she finally qualified — something to think about if you ever fly into the San Francisco Bay Area.

    So I’ve seen race used as a criterion for employment on two occasions; once explicitly. In both cases, the discrimination was against whites (and Asians), not in their favor.

    I await your personal anecdotes. How often have you been told to your face that you would be hired ‘if a white candidate couldn’t be found’?

    Now, I think that’s about enough. You’re subscribing to a publically mandated fairy tale — but it’s really not true. There is no racist bogeyman — or rather, if there is, whites and Asians are his victims, not his beneficiaries.

    • Replies: @Okechukwu
    , @CCZ
  244. @Okechukwu

    Keep posting. You’re pretty amusing. I particularly like your notion that you ‘cleaned anyone’s clock.’

  245. @Harbinger

    ‘However, ironically, history, has proven, overwhelmingly that whites have supremely triumphed in ever field possible, over blacks…’

    Be fair. Not basketball. Also, not short-distance sprints. Plus, blacks are more fertile, and can be more resistant to malaria.

    There are probably other points of black superiority…oh yeah. They do have bigger dicks. No point in denying that. It probably has to do with the advantages to having a greater area open to cooling in a hot climate — but who knows?

    • Replies: @Harbinger
    , @Okechukwu
  246. @Okechukwu

    ‘LOL. The whole China is colonizing Africa narrative is a white suprematard wet dream. Here’s what’s really going on…’

    I find it pleasant that you’re telling yourself that. Please: keep trying to believe it.

    I am mildly curious about one point, though: are you actually black? Not that your posts are especially intelligent, but…

    Maybe a mulatto or quadroon? If you’re 100% black, I’m mildly impressed.

    • Replies: @res
  247. Harbinger says:

    In every forum there is always the cultural Marxist troll. The arsenal of the Marxist troll is shaming tactics using the usual slur words – racist, fascist, hater, white supremacist etc etc. And voila, here you come.
    You do know who Marx was?
    You do know of the Frankfurt School of Cultural Marxists?
    And this brings me onto your attempts at a lambaste. Yes, many white people do not think as I do because the overwhelming majority of those whites are nothing by braindead acolytes to the cult of Cultural Marxism. They have grown up, embracing globalism and hating their own culture, ancestry and race.
    And again, onto the second paragraph and the subjective pours out of you.
    Look, this is really simple and I know that you do understand everything that I state to you, but you see Okechukwu, everything and I mean EVERYTHING that I state is fact. You can either accept it or not, either way, it doesn’t change the fact that it’s simply the truth of the matter at hand – race and racial achievement.
    I will, again, just for you let you know simply that white people have achieved far, far, far, far more in the fields of science, technology, engineering, mathematics, literature, philosophy, art, music, architecture, sculpture, city planning, masonry, law and order, humanitarianism, altruism, charity……. It is the reason that the white civilizations are the greatest this world has ever, ever known.
    Now, that stated, the fact is that whites, through example ARE superior to black people and all other peoples on this planet. Now again, whether you accept that simple fact or not, is irrelevant. It simply is the way it is.
    You should thank your lucky stars for the white peoples of this world because you wouldn’t exist otherwise, as somewhere down your ancestral line your ancestors would have been killed off, in a war, in Africa. That’s a fact. Whites have saved many peoples from going extinct and you can ask the native Americans about that also.
    Your ignorance of history is paralleled by your Afrocentrism and clear contempt for white people, their many cultures and civilization. I have seen this within all blacks I’ve met, a hatred, a bitter, jealous envy of whites, who are, by all other races in this world the most beautiful on this planet. If you were to ask the Asian peoples, the East Asians, the Malaysians, the Polynesians and the Australasians, whom on this earth they would rather share it with, black or whites, they would unanimously say whites, because even they see black people for what they are.

    And I love my culture and my people. That therefore makes me a racist and a proud one.
    I also realize, above all else that white people are vastly superior to blacks in every way, shape and form. And I have dated a few black women in my time, when I was younger and far less wise about the ways of the world. I simply saw them for what they are, their bitter hatred of all things white clearly shone through. That is what I found most sad. It’s an innate prejudice within that they all share. It must be awful, to be a useless people, who have never achieved within their own culture, but instead had to do so in another’s. It must be even worse to know that your ancestors sold you off to Jewish slavers for own material gain. No other race, on this planet would ever have done that, not one!

    I don’t hate black people, I simply have no desire to be around them. And now, with the rise of the Black Lives Matter and a resurgence in Black liberation and nationalism, not just that but growing hatred and violence of blacks to whites, it’s even more reason to avoid them like the plague.

    But hey, I’m sure you’ll still continue believing in black geniuses and Jews having nothing to do with the chaos in this world and you know, go for it. Whatever floats your boat.

    • Agree: Them Guys
  248. Harbinger says:
    @Colin Wright

    “Be fair. Not basketball. Also, not short-distance sprints. Plus, blacks are more fertile, and can be more resistant to malaria.”

    My points in white superiority have been listed above and sporting achievement was not one of them, although I did mention that they are vastly over represented, per ration of their demographic compared to whites and other non blacks. I did specifically state though that their successes in sport, music, film and TV have only happened while being within a white civilization.

    As for blacks being more fertile, well, that’s a highly debatable subject considering that the white males reproduction has been under attack for quite some time, not just the fact that male sperm rates are plummeting, due to tampering of the food and water supplies, vaccinations and synthetic estrogens such as Bisphenol A (BPA), but also the horrific number of abortions white women have. And yes, they probably do have better resistance to malaria, but my point was in fields listed in my previous comments.

  249. Okechukwu says:
    @Colin Wright

    Now, I think that’s about enough. You’re subscribing to a publically mandated fairy tale — but it’s really not true. There is no racist bogeyman — or rather, if there is, whites and Asians are his victims, not his beneficiaries.

    Whites and Asians, huh? Whites benefit from Affirmative Action and protected class status via white women. As noted previously, whites also benefit from instutionalized advantage, which is far more powerful than Affirmative Action.

    The fact that you don’t think that Asians benefit from AA and protected class status tells me that you haven’t spent much time in corporate America, despite your rather fanciful anecdotes. Asians are masters of navigating and taking advantage of the AA and protected class statutes that blacks fought and died for. You see, the law doesn’t say that AA beneficiaries have to be black. They just have to be federally recognized minorities. That includes even wealthy Asians like Japanese.

    Guess who else takes advantage of Affirmative Action. Italians:

    Italian-Americans Want More Affirmative Action at CUNY

    https://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/15/nyregion/15italians.html

    When Affirmative Action Is White: Italian Americans in the City University of New York,
    1976 – Present

    http://opensiuc.lib.siu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1000&context=esh_2016

    Crazy How Anti-Affirmative Action Justice Scalia Was an Affirmative Action Hire

    https://theslot.jezebel.com/crazy-how-anti-affirmative-action-justice-scalia-was-an-1747308628

    In fact I’ve known South Asians, Southern Europeans and even someone of Norwegian descent who’ve applied for and received benefits under various minority programs. The programs are not very discriminating. Only people of Western European descent seem to be ineligible.

  250. @Truth

    Exactly, negros will remain shiftless, stupid and lazy. :)

  251. Okechukwu says:
    @Colin Wright

    Be fair. Not basketball

    Not if you go by the basketball skills of Africans. You know, the blackest people on the planet. They usually get demolished by all-white teams in international competition. In fact, as I recall Nigeria lost to the USA by 83 points in the London Olympics. I dare say a Division II American college squad would’ve done better. You may say, well the Africans don’t have the finances to compete. Well the Africans can field world-class soccer teams and soccer programs are much more expensive than basketball to put together and run.

    You see, black people don’t have a genetic advantage in sports much like whites don’t have a genetic advantage over blacks in intelligence. Everything people are is a function of their culture, their history and their influences. Shit, a 5 year old should know this. But you IQists and “race-realists” continue to struggle with this concept. I’m sure you can appreciate the irony.

    Africans suck at basketball because it doesn’t permeate their culture. It’s an afterthought. Conversely, basketball has a pervasive presence is American culture. In much the same way, sprinting has a pervasive presence in Jamaican culture.

    • Replies: @Harbinger
  252. res says:
    @Okechukwu

    I have to confess that Okechukwu’s Bizarro world (or should I say Wakanda?) version of things is kind of fun to read when I am in the right mood. LOL!

  253. res says:
    @Truth

    So nothing’s going to change?

    Well, the Mexicans are not as vulnerable to the playing of the race card as whites are. That is different. You might want to pay attention to the demographic changes in LA.

  254. CCZ says:
    @Okechukwu

    Not colonialism, but neo-colonialism. Below is one analysis.

    …in the language of the great Pan-Africanist Kwame Nkrumah who coined the term neo-colonialism, the eponymous title to his book, to describe the socio-economic and political control exercised by the former colonial countries to perpetuate their economic dominance in their  former colonies through their multinational corporations and other cultural institutions:

    “The essence of neo-colonialism is that the State which is subject to it is, in theory, independent and has all the outward trappings of international sovereignty. In reality its economic system and thus its political policy is directed from outside… The result of neo-colonialism is that foreign capital is used for the exploitation rather than for the development of the less developed parts of the world. Investment under neo-colonialism increases rather than decreases the gap between the rich and the poor countries of the world…. Neo-colonialism is also the worst form of imperialism. For those who practise it, it means power without responsibility and for those who suffer from it, it means exploitation without redress. In the days of old-fashioned colonialism, the imperial power had at least to explain and justify at home the actions it was taking abroad. In the colony those who served the ruling imperial power could at least look to its protection against any violent move by their opponents. With neo-colonialism neither is the case. (Emphasis added.)”

    I know it is not politically correct to say that China is exploiting Africa just like the Europeans in the heyday of colonialism. …  Anyway, I will let the apologists for China who live in Denial-istan play their game of political correctness. … I am not the only one asking questions about Chinese neocolonialism in Africa. This past May, the N.Y. Times Magazine headlined its detailed analysis with a straightforward question: “Is China the world’s new colonial power?”. I would add, “Is China Africa’s new neo-colonial master?”

    Let the evidence speak for itself, as the lawyers like to say. First, the order of proof:

    Does China use its mega transnational corporations and banking institutions to perpetuate colonial forms of exploitation in Africa?

    Is China’s “new strategic partnership” with Africa a fancy phrase for China’s kinder and gentler creeping neocolonialism through outwardly benign economic relations (domination) and exploitation of Africa as a source of cheap raw materials and cheap labor?

    China has literally invaded Africa with its investors, traders, lenders, builders, developers, laborers and who knows what else. …

    Text source: http://almariam.com/2017/09/03/chinese-neocolonialism-in-africa-the-dragon-eating-the-african-lion-and-cheetah-part-i/

    [[Professor Alemayehu G. Mariam teaches political science at California State University, San Bernardino. He is the Senior Editor of the International Journal of Ethiopian Studies, a leading scholarly journal on Ethiopia. For the last several years, Prof. Mariam has written weekly web commentaries on Ethiopian human rights and African issues that are widely read online. He blogged on the Huffington post:  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alemayehu-g-mariam/ and later on open.salon]]

    .

    • Replies: @Them Guys
  255. myself says:
    @res

    As far as I know, at this point in time, YES – both undergrad and grad school. And especially true of students in the hard, technical – “objective”, if you will – fields.

    The people going abroad to study are still very high caliber even today, just not the very best in China.

    This is, so I have been told, a quite new phenomenon. Until very recently, say a decade ago, the students who went to the developed world for study WERE perhaps some of the very best.

    But a few years ago, the mainlanders started to realize that 1st-tier schools in China had, quietly and without fanfare, very sharply raised their quality of instruction.

    There is no question that mainland Chinese students will continue to go to the developed world for study for quite some time. The story of the ascent to world-class status of the Chinese university system will take time to play out.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  256. Harbinger says:
    @Okechukwu

    You really still don’t get it and continue digging hole in every reply.
    Now let me see shall we?

    “You see, black people don’t have a genetic advantage in sports much like whites don’t have a genetic advantage over blacks in intelligence. Everything people are is a function of their culture, their history and their influences.”

    Yes they very well do, hence why there is a disproportionate representation of blacks per ratio of their demographics in sports compared to whites. And you still fail to see this.
    And as for IQ, it’s a simple test – blacks perform lower than whites. Therefore genetics.

    But more importantly and here’s the rub, it took Africans to come OUT OF THEIR CULTURE in order to do better. It took them to be part of white culture to better themselves, although still remaining inferior to whites, in all walks of life, as explained. American culture is not black culture. It’s EUROPEAN culture whether you like it or not and European culture is WHITE culture. More so, everything in Africa, the hospitals, the schools, the universities, the roads, the city infrastructure etc etc are white culture, not black. Black culture is living in mud huts, one storey mud huts. That’s black culture.
    Had blacks had a HIGHER IQ to whites, then the western civilization would have been built a long time ago in Africa. But it wasn’t. Roads, aqueducts, irrigation, sewers, housing with more than one storey, schools, universities, hospitals….. all would have been built in Africa had Africans a higher IQ.

    You simply don’t understand that people get better at something when competing with those who are better. And this is the story of blacks in white civilization. They were dragged from the stone age, as slaves and allowed to be part of a far superior civilization, populated by far superior peoples. And it was from them that they learned things they’d never have learned in Africa. They never had the COMMON SENSE to better themselves and this is therefore LOW IQ.

    Now I’m really interested what nonsense you’re going to say about this, most certainly discuss some mythical WAKANDA or, wait for it, a great negro civilization, far superior to anything whites have ever built, but the evil, blue eyed devils destroyed it and wiped all history of it from the face of the earth. Black Liberation theology is bullshit. Ironically coming straight from the pages of Karl Marx. LOL

    There’s nothing wrong with admitting that white people and their civilization is far superior to black. It’s simply a fact of life, something most whites won’t acknowledge due to systematic indoctrination in schools that teach cultural Marxism along with a Jewish msm and Jewish political system.

    P.S. Reply 260 was for you but I forgot to press reply for some reason.

    P.P.S. and Just for you here’s a wonderful story about white people and their civilization:

    http://www.tomatobubble.com/wonderfulrace1.html

    • Replies: @Okechukwu
  257. Okechukwu says:

    Regarding the FAA: http://www.breitbart.com/video/2018/06/02/aviation-attorney-to-tucker-carlson-faa-is-putting-diversity-ahead-of-safety/

    But black ATC’s are able to control air traffic just fine in Africa, including international traffic.

    Go to 16:00

    On the other hand, there are many examples of white air traffic controllers who have crashed planes due to their stupidity and negligence.

    It appears that reality just won’t mesh with your delusions.

    • Replies: @manorchurch
  258. @Okechukwu

    LOL. You are such a total patsy. Cracks me up every time.

  259. Okechukwu says:
    @Harbinger

    Yes they very well do, hence why there is a disproportionate representation of blacks per ratio of their demographics in sports compared to whites.

    This is demonstrably false. Whites participate in more sports per capita than blacks. You’re in the UK. Consider the hundreds of sports that go on in your country. For the vast majority of them there is virtually no black participation. Blacks are even underrepresented on your Olympic teams as a percentage of their population. Blacks are overrepresented in sprinting events. But that has more to do with socio-economic and historic factors rather than some magic genetic coding blacks have for sprinting. If blacks were designed for sprinting, then the pure West Africans would dominate and they surely don’t. They often don’t even make it through trials. Americans and Jamaicans dominate sprinting events, not blacks.

    And as for IQ, it’s a simple test – blacks perform lower than whites. Therefore genetics.

    No they don’t, and even if they did it wouldn’t be genetic. If group IQ disparities were genetically determined then ALL group IQ disparities are genetically determined, including white/white groups. That would mean that white supremacists such as yourself, who have an IQ in the 65-75 range, are genetically divergent from other whites. But that doesn’t make sense, does it?

    With respect to black Americans, when adjusted for 400 years of inhumane treatment, economic deprivation and socio-cultural ostracization, they likely have the highest IQ’s in the world. Whites should be 30 points ahead rather than a mere 9, and even that gap is closing. Even now with an IQ of 91, black Americans have higher IQ’s than about 2 billion Caucasians in North Africa, the Middle East, Southern Europe and the Indian subcontinent.

    With respect to African IQ, we have no credible data. But we can assume based on an abundance of evidence that Africans do not have a reduced potential for intelligence relative to anyone else. In fact it wouldn’t surprise me if the smartest people in the world were found in Africa.

    But more importantly and here’s the rub, it took Africans to come OUT OF THEIR CULTURE in order to do better.

    How so? Africans lived better than Europeans prior to colonization. Remember, Europe was a festering shithole of filth, disease, famine, ignorance and superstition. That’s why Europeans fled that continent en masse.

    More so, everything in Africa, the hospitals, the schools, the universities, the roads, the city infrastructure etc etc are white culture, not black. Black culture is living in mud huts, one storey mud huts

    You’re a very ignorant fellow. Here, let me help you out:

    Africa’s Great Civilizations

    https://www.pbs.org/show/africas-great-civilizations/

    Had blacks had a HIGHER IQ to whites, then the western civilization would have been built a long time ago in Africa. But it wasn’t. Roads, aqueducts, irrigation, sewers, housing with more than one storey, schools, universities, hospitals….. all would have been built in Africa had Africans a higher IQ

    You’re making a fool of yourself. Not a single one of those things has its provenance in Europe. And for the sake of historical authenticity we have to de-couple the Mediterranean civilizations from Europe, which is what historians specializing in antiquity do. You do understand that Europeans were still dumping their shit out of windows well into the 19th century, right? Do high IQ people behave that way? I could go down a list of things that Europeans have done that would rank them as the dumbest people to ever walk the planet.

    You simply don’t understand that people get better at something when competing with those who are better.

    I’m doing just fine. It’s whites that can’t compete with me.

    They were dragged from the stone age, as slaves and allowed to be part of a far superior civilization, populated by far superior peoples.

    “Superior people” that didn’t bathe and had such ghastly hygiene practices that the captured Africans would retch when close to them. Ok, got it.

    And it was from them that they learned things they’d never have learned in Africa.

    Everybody learns things from other people, dummy. That’s how human civilization works. Absent contact with civilizing cultures you would in a cave right now, wearing animal skins and butchering meat you scavenged from predators.

    They never had the COMMON SENSE to better themselves and this is therefore LOW IQ.

    Sorry, I don’t see it. I’m black. I don’t have even trace amounts of European DNA. You’re white, and you’re certainly not superior to me. In fact quite the contrary. Those are the hard unadulterated facts.

    There’s nothing wrong with admitting that white people and their civilization is far superior to black.

    You doth protest too much and that is telling. If you really believed what you’re writing you would stride the earth with a quiet confidence. Why are you shouting from the rooftops like some deranged apocalyptic preacher trying to convince the world that whites are superior? Such superiority, if it were real, would be self-evident. And for your information, no I do not think that white people are superior or that “white civilization” is superior. Hell, whites have snuffed out alot of civilizations we could be learning from now who were doing things that whites would only “discover” hundreds and even thousands of years later.

    P.P.S. and Just for you here’s a wonderful story about white people and their civilization:

    Hahaha. LMAO. You need serious and sustained psychiatric attention.

  260. @myself

    And I think a lot of it is that Chinese companies aren’t randomly paying higher salaries for people because they have a Western education, something that used to happen a lot more. When its just a lot of money for no point, it becomes rapidly less attractive to try to game the system that way.

    This article is from 2017, but I think it captures a lot of that:

    http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2017-09/29/content_32634509.htm

  261. Anonymous[392] • Disclaimer says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    I’m not triggered by the innovation meme.

    I do believe whites are more creative, but blacks are more creative than whites so what is the point that is trying to be made?

    Whites like Anatoly use the innovation meme as an excuse to shoehorn the idea that whites are the only ones who can be drivers for new things which is total bs. And Asians can only follow what whites create for them.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  262. Harbinger says:
    @Okechukwu

    Are you going to continue digging holes for yourself in your vitriol of subjective nonsense? Why do you persist in debating, when it is clear, to anyone with any intelligence that your argument has been soundly defeated by you persist in getting the last word?
    You demonstrate my point about low IQ and low intelligence of black people. It is hilarious that you actually think you have any point to make on this matter!

    “This is demonstrably false. Whites participate in more sports per capita than blacks. You’re in the UK. Consider the hundreds of sports that go on in your country. For the vast majority of them there is virtually no black participation. Blacks are even underrepresented on your Olympic teams as a percentage of their population. Blacks are overrepresented in sprinting events. But that has more to do with socio-economic and historic factors rather than some magic genetic coding blacks have for sprinting. If blacks were designed for sprinting, then the pure West Africans would dominate and they surely don’t. They often don’t even make it through trials. Americans and Jamaicans dominate sprinting events, not blacks.”

    I was speaking of the most commonly watched sports in the western world – football (soccer), American football, American baseball, basketball, boxing, athletics – running, jumping. Yes, there are many sports, but those sports that are far more readily available for people to do. For example, not everyone is going to take up the biathlon, curling, hurling, Gaelic football etc. And again, you completely fail to see that the reason blacks in the USA perform better in sprinting than Africans is because of the financial situation and coaching. Why are there no US white sprinters competing at top level? Why in every athletics final are 99% of the competitors black, even if they’re from European countries? Again, no argument. Blacks are vastly disproportionate in many sports, compared to their demographic percentage. There is NO argument against this and only incredibly stupid people, persist in trying to refute this argument.

    “No they don’t, and even if they did it wouldn’t be genetic. If group IQ disparities were genetically determined then ALL group IQ disparities are genetically determined, including white/white groups. That would mean that white supremacists such as yourself, who have an IQ in the 65-75 range, are genetically divergent from other whites. But that doesn’t make sense, does it?”

    Again, nonsense. Take ten white people off the street and ten black people off the street and sit them in front of an IQ test. Results would overwhelmingly prove higher white IQ to black IQ. And yes you could go to a ghetto and a trailer trash park and the result would be the same. You could go to the city and do the same with black and white businessmen. The results would be the same.

    “With respect to black Americans, when adjusted for 400 years of inhumane treatment, economic deprivation and socio-cultural ostracization, they likely have the highest IQ’s in the world. Whites should be 30 points ahead rather than a mere 9, and even that gap is closing. Even now with an IQ of 91, black Americans have higher IQ’s than about 2 billion Caucasians in North Africa, the Middle East, Southern Europe and the Indian subcontinent.”

    Yup, the slavery card, incidentally sold off by your own people. And tell me, why is it blacks continue to seek the crown for persecution in this world? Where does the world slave come from? Why did Europeans succeed, many times, even though their people were subjected to the worst treatment in slavery? The Scots were slaves under the English for 700 years yet produced the world’s greatest engineers, amongst many other field of expertise. Again, more nonsense from Mr Afrocentric in stating that blacks are closing the IQ gap. Tell me, where did you get your information from? The JDL? The ADL? The SPLC? Some other Jewish created, black liberation ideology promoting organization?
    Crime continues to go up amongst the black population.

    “With respect to African IQ, we have no credible data. But we can assume based on an abundance of evidence that Africans do not have a reduced potential for intelligence relative to anyone else. In fact it wouldn’t surprise me if the smartest people in the world were found in Africa.”

    This is hilarious!
    There is plenty of data on African IQ. This is where many of the IQ studies were carried out! The fact that many parts of Africa STILL HAVEN’T INVENTED THE WHEEL proves, overwhelmingly that I’ve got more chance of winning the lottery, even though I don’t play it, that you have of finding a genius in Africa, with a high IQ!
    “How so? Africans lived better than Europeans prior to colonization. Remember, Europe was a festering shithole of filth, disease, famine, ignorance and superstition. That’s why Europeans fled that continent en masse.”
    Europeans fled to the USA because of what you have stated? Are you serious? The reasons that the Europeans landed on Plymouth rock was to create a new world and remove themselves from the Feudal society there. It had nothing whatsoever to do with filth, disease, famine etc! Why do you think the USA became a republic? Why do you think they fought the British crown? Are you really as ignorant as you are coming across as? And again, you dig more holes for yourself. Are Africans in the USA not better athletes than Africans in Africa? Have you not just stated that? You contradict everything that you state. It’s laughable…..
    And on that I really have no time to wade through your nonsense as it’s a waste of my time.

    The bottom line again is simple – blacks succeed in white culture and fail in black culture. Blacks are inferior in almost everything compared to whites. This is a proven fact. You can and you will continue to ‘get the last word’ but I for one have had enough of your nonsense. From now on, anything you have to write will simply be ignored. You are not worth my time and I suggest anyone else reading this do the same. Just ignore this African idiot and promoter of black liberation ideology. UNZ has its very own Marcus Garvey and that man was an idiot too!

    • Troll: Okechukwu
    • Replies: @Okechukwu
    , @Them Guys
  263. @Anonymous

    Whites like Anatoly use the innovation meme as an excuse to shoehorn the idea that whites are the only ones who can be drivers for new things which is total bs

    I don’t think you know my friend very well if you think that’s what Mr. Karlin is “trying to do.” He’s just observing trends and attempting to make predictions based on that. What you’re inferring is a pretty huge stretch from anything he has written.

  264. @Okechukwu

    Oof! Why is bullshit always so voluminous? Never mind. I already know.

  265. res says:
    @Okechukwu

    If group IQ disparities were genetically determined then ALL group IQ disparities are genetically determined, including white/white groups.

    LOL! I guess that “logic” works if and only if you take “group IQ disparities were genetically determined” to mean only genetics are a factor. Is anybody here arguing that? (you do know what a strawman is, right?) In the real world both genetics and environment matter, and recent IQ GWAS make clear that IQ SNPs exist which have different frequencies in different racial groups.

    And while I am here, let’s talk about this statement of yours (from comment 246) a bit:

    The average white man on this site has gained far more from Affirmative Action than I have.

    You really don’t understand how this works, do you. Affirmative action mostly takes away from white men and gives to other groups. To make a comparison (I don’t know the actual numbers, if someone does please cite them. That kind of data tends not to be collected or disseminated for obvious reasons) say you take $1 away from white men, give $0.75 to white women and $0.25 to other groups. How on earth is that a net positive gain for the average white man? Even if he gets all of that $0.75 back (as if!) he is still out $0.25.

    You talk about having employees. Are you a business owner? Do you get any benefit from affirmative action now (e.g. SBA loans, minority set asides) or in the past (e.g. college admissions)? If so it would be rich of you to make a statement like the one I quoted.

    And while we are talking about affirmative action, let’s revisit your statement in comment 243:

    And Affirmative Action isn’t a black thing, asi the prime beneficiaries have been white women and white men by extension.

    Well, that depends on whether you measure “prime beneficiaries” by group or individual (you go on elsewhere about how you prefer treating people as individuals, right?). As a group white women benefit most because they are the largest population segment eligible for AA (~31% of the US population). But if you start looking at individuals the picture is different. Let’s take college admissions as an example. According to this, African Americans get an SAT “bonus” of 230 points: http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-adv-asian-race-tutoring-20150222-story.html
    Do you think the AA “bonus” for individual white women is anywhere near comparable to that? They simply don’t need that much help.

    Also speaking of affirmative action, how do you feel about recent African immigrants and their descendants coming to the US and taking AA slots away from slave descended African-Americans? I would have thought a group as able as that would not need the help (surely they can compete on their own merits?) and it seems rude to take up slots originally intended for the descendants of those who were enslaved.

    How is that “ass kicking” and “crushing” going? I guess since I am not a white supremacist I don’t count towards your statement in comment 249, but still…

    You really are a caricature now. “Where the white women at?”, “We wuz kangz”, bragging. What a joke. At this point I sincerely hope you are a troll. Otherwise you are just making yourself look bad.

    • Replies: @Harbinger
    , @Okechukwu
  266. Harbinger says:
    @res

    You cannot debate a black, liberation, ideologist like Okechukwu. Regardless what you state to them, they will always say “I’m right and you’re wrong.”
    I mean, think about it? Blacks had to come to western countries to achieve, meaning that they never had the IQ to create in Africa, what whites had created in their civilization. There is no argument against this and yet he will STILL argue against it.
    He is clearly a black nationalist.
    He clearly has an ingrained hatred for white people.
    He is deluded overwhelmingly about life and who’s in charge.
    And he lives IN the white civilization and yet attacks it and those who created it.
    He epitomizes the majority of Africans in the USA and the reason why it is sinking further into the sewer.

    • Replies: @res
  267. This would never have happened were the Jews not in charge of America’s universities and all of the media. Communism was completely their brain child, as was the development of nuclear weapons. This is the way they bring down the USA, and by the time it has crashed completely most of the wealth will be in the hands of secular, atheists still identifying as Jews but who live in China and Tailand. Were the Jews not in charge of America, this political correctness business would never have taken over.

    • Replies: @Them Guys
  268. Okechukwu says:
    @res

    LOL! I guess that “logic” works if and only if you take “group IQ disparities were genetically determined” to mean only genetics are a factor. Is anybody here arguing that?

    Yeah, your friend Harbinger is. It’s not my argument. The fact that I hypothesized that black Americans likely have the highest adjusted IQ’s in the world is proof that I don’t hold to genetic determinism. I do believe that genes impact intelligence individually irrespective of race.

    and recent IQ GWAS make clear that IQ SNPs exist which have different frequencies in different racial groups.

    There is no such thing as IQ SNPs. The idea of racial groups itself has little scientific validity.

    As a group white women benefit most because they are the largest population segment eligible for AA (~31% of the US population).

    No. They benefit more per capita, significantly more. And as the other half of the privileged group, it’s easier for white women to segue into these programs and take better advantage of them. In other words, white women come into Affirmative Action already institutionally advantaged and already pre-positioned for success. Affirmative Action is not a free lunch. There are significant barriers to access that eliminate most of the people it was intended to help. Affirmative Action won’t take your tests for you or write your papers for you. If someone is starting out from a position of extreme poverty or extreme dysfunction, in most cases, AA programs are out of their reach.

    Ever watch Mad Men? That was the state of white American women as late as the 1960′s. They could be one of three things: secretary, waitress or wife. Now fast forward to the present day and you’ll get an idea of the titanic, transformational impact Affirmative Action and protected group status have had.

    Also speaking of affirmative action, how do you feel about recent African immigrants and their descendants coming to the US and taking AA slots away from slave descended African-Americans?

    If Indians, Pakistanis, Chinese and undocumented Mexican immigrants can take those slots, why shouldn’t Africans? As stated, traditional black Americans, owning to the unremitting assault they’ve faced in this country, often can’t position themselves to take advantage of AA. If someone has to take those slots, why shouldn’t it be their African brethren, who are subjected to many of the same issues of race if not of identity? If Harvard, in the interests of greater diversity, sets aside a certain number of positions specifically for black students and if they fill those positions with immigrant or second generation black Africans, it’s going to be high-level scholars that acquire those positions. While diversity is the goal, academic excellence is still compulsory.

    How is that “ass kicking” and “crushing” going? I guess since I am not a white supremacist I don’t count towards your statement in comment 249, but still…

    Too easy. You folks don’t present much of a challenge.

    You really are a caricature now. “Where the white women at?”, “We wuz kangz”, bragging. What a joke. At this point I sincerely hope you are a troll. Otherwise you are just making yourself look bad.

    Whenever a white supremacist makes these allegations against a black person, rational people who operate in the real world know instinctively that the opposite must be true. You’re actually a caricature of a caricature of a white power troll. Insipid references to “kangz” and a weird obsession with the sexuality of black men, particularly as relates to white women, are all hallmarks of a sexually frustrated little racist twerp who probably jacks off while fantasizing about a big black man fucking some blonde.

    • LOL: res
    • Replies: @res
  269. @vinteuil

    Similar thing happened to me. They are like children playing at being doctors, lawyers, whatever.

    I am just back from Poland myself: happy Christian people, and everywhere comely whiteness. In a week I saw no more than half a dozen blacks and an equal number of Asians – all tourists.
    What they can do, we can do.

    Been listening to Glen Gould play Bach all evening. What gold he spins.

  270. res says:
    @Okechukwu

    The fact that I hypothesized that black Americans likely have the highest adjusted IQ’s in the world is proof that I don’t hold to genetic determinism.

    That’s for sure. It is also proof that you live in Bizarro world (or Wakanda).

    There is no such thing as IQ SNPs. The idea of racial groups itself has little scientific validity.

    LOL! Just keep telling yourself that.

    No. They benefit more per capita, significantly more.

    Evidence? Not holding my breath. Do you think white women get a larger “bonus” on the SAT for college admissions than Blacks do? I love your apologetics for people for whom even that big a bonus is not enough.

    Now fast forward to the present day and you’ll get an idea of the titanic, transformational impact Affirmative Action and protected group status have had.

    Do you really believe that transition is not partly due to easing of discrimination in those fields?

    If Indians, Pakistanis, Chinese and undocumented Mexican immigrants can take those slots, why shouldn’t Africans?

    They might be taking AA slots, but not specifically Black spots (the groups are counted separately in the statistics). That is left for Africans. I like the way you justify it.

    Too easy. You folks don’t present much of a challenge.

    LOL!

    Whenever a white supremacist makes these allegations against a black person,

    Let’s see who backs up his statements better. Kangz and bragging are adequately covered in your comments above (though I do have affection for your comment about it taking a chess Grandmaster to defeat 12 or 13 year old you, that is one of the more creative implausible brags I have seen). I say “Where the white women at?” based on this comment of yours: http://www.unz.com/article/this-will-not-stand-academic-establishment-suppresses-italian-anthropologists-proof-that-race-iq-differences-are-genetic-for-now/#comment-2328326

    My lovely white wife just walked by me naked. I certainly don’t hate her. Hehe.

    P.S. You are really something. The more you say the more ridiculous you become. Sometimes it is better to remain silent.

    • Replies: @Okechukwu
  271. res says:
    @Harbinger

    And he lives IN the white civilization and yet attacks it and those who created it.

    One of the reasons I continue engaging with him is because at first he seemed reasonably thoughtful and intelligent, but the more I read from him the more apparent it becomes that he is both not very bright (or simply possesses astonishing levels of selective blindness) and is filled with virulent hatred. IMHO it helps to have that laid out so clearly for others to see.

  272. Okechukwu says:
    @Harbinger

    Why do you persist in debating, when it is clear, to anyone with any intelligence that your argument has been soundly defeated by you persist in getting the last word?

    Maybe in this cesspool, but let’s take our arguments to the real world and see who wins. Oh, I forgot, you would never utter your garbage in the real world for fear of universal opprobrium. You would lose your job, your friends, your family and possibly your boyfriend. That should give you pause as to the righteousness of your views or lack of same.

    You demonstrate my point about low IQ and low intelligence of black people.

    But I’m vastly more intelligent than you are.

    I was speaking of the most commonly watched sports in the western world – football (soccer), American football, American baseball, basketball, boxing, athletics – running, jumping

    Come on, my dimwitted racist friend, you’re making this too easy.

    Actually, there’s a dearth of black Americans in baseball. It’s a relatively recent phenomenon. There have been TV documentaries and lengthy assays written about it. Chris Rock has talked about it. Me, I love baseball, which is increasingly uncommon in the black community. No one knows why exactly, but black kids seem to have lost all interest in baseball. Even as a fan, baseball is something you have to engage with as a child or you’ll never get it.

    The same is true of boxing. Blacks are no longer the dominant presence in boxing. As with baseball, black kids simply aren’t taking it up. These phenomenon are modulated by the interplay of myriad sociological factors. Did blacks suddenly forget how to box or play baseball or lose the “genes” for those sports? Of course not. White Americans gave up boxing long ago. But white champions still come out of Eastern Europe. Same European genetics, different outcomes. This should cause an AHA! moment for you. You just have to think clearly and use basic logic. Clear out from your brain all the cobwebs and dung, otherwise known as race realism and HBD.

    And again, you completely fail to see that the reason blacks in the USA perform better in sprinting than Africans is because of the financial situation and coaching.

    Well if that’s true then it’s about culture and environment and not about genetics or twitch fibers or any such nonsense.

    Why are there no US white sprinters competing at top level? Why in every athletics final are 99% of the competitors black, even if they’re from European countries?

    Why are there no black downhill skiers? Black people can ski.

    You see, athletes do this strange thing called TRAINING. To be successful, one has to start at a very early age and have a supportive, protective cocoon of friends and family around them. It’s an awesome gamble. Regardless of natural ability, dedication and work ethic, chances of success at the highest levels are still virtually slim and none. There are much easier and more assured paths to success that don’t require extraordinary talent or preternatural discipline. Any lazy moron can become an investment banker or a stock broker or a lawyer. Jews dominated professional basketball when all the aforementioned avenues were closed to them. Now that they have unrestricted access, they won’t take the gamble of trying to make it to the NBA. Get it?

    There is plenty of data on African IQ. This is where many of the IQ studies were carried out!

    Then you shouldn’t have a problem linking me to this data. When were these IQ tests on Africans conducted? Who conducted them? Who was tested? Where? When? How? Sample size, etc.

    *Crickets*

    The fact that many parts of Africa STILL HAVEN’T INVENTED THE WHEEL

    Your British barbarian ancestors certainly didn’t invent the wheel. The wheel was imposed on them by conquerors. They couldn’t figure it out on their own despite what your are alleging was their massive IQ. LOL.

    the Europeans landed on Plymouth rock was to create a new world and remove themselves from the Feudal society there.

    So you’re admitting they couldn’t run a stable, functioning country.

    It had nothing whatsoever to do with filth, disease, famine etc!

    Even the inscription on the Statue of Liberty spoke of the kind of human refuse that were arriving at Ellis Island. Out of sheer desperation, European emigrants went as far as to go to America to work as indentured servants in exchange for boat fare. If they were willing to enslave themselves as the cost of fleeing their European shitholes, that should give you some inkling of the kind of hellish environments they were escaping from.

    The bottom line again is simple – blacks succeed in white culture and fail in black culture. Blacks are inferior in almost everything compared to whites. This is a proven fact

    Dude, repeating yourself over and over again isn’t going to make your fantasies come to fruition. The world you’re describing seems to exist only within your puny little mind. I’m out and about every day, among the people. I simply don’t see what you’re describing, even in your native Britain, to which I’m a frequent visitor as I have family and business interests there.

  273. MarkinLA says:
    @Plainman

    Every company I have ever worked at had few if any Asians past Staff Engineer – very very few at the “scientist” engineer. If you were a software engineer then you probably never looked at any code written by Asians. Most Asian programmers that I worked with produced spaghetti code without any previous design.

    As for Nobel Prizes, you seem to be confused. Asians are underrepresented. You might be thinking of Jews.

    • Replies: @Anon
  274. Anon[298] • Disclaimer says:
    @MarkinLA

    If you were a software engineer then you probably never looked at any code written by Asians.

    When was this? SWEN faculty at my college were about 50% Chinese and 25% Indian, iirc.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  275. Anon[298] • Disclaimer says:
    @Thomm

    MarkinLA is no more capable of knowing what is really happening in STEM than a sea cucumber is of understanding oceanic plate tectonics.

    This is a clever metaphor. There was really no reason for the rest of your comment though.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  276. Them Guys says:
    @Harbinger

    Perhaps most African blacks Everywhere they exist also have, besides very Low IQ on Avg, also have one more uniqueness that NO other race has, except of course for those who Mate and race mix with African blacks. Which would be the DNA mixture within African blacks of, either a Chimp, or Ape, Or Baboon…Or a mixture of two or more of that animal DNA.

    I’d wager that actual solid proof of such Ape, Baboon and Chimp DNA has been found by competent scientists in that field by now eh….But same as most any other issue today, said DNA Experts are likely in great Fear of total job loss as well as all forms research grant $$$$ casholas, and the usual typical jewish org smear job to stifle, silence, and fully destroy any and all such experts if any dared go public with such important info.

    Al Sharpton’s sneaker shoes soles would get set on fire, along with his nappy hair in flames as he raced to the first TV crews cameras and Mic in order to slander such experts who dared go public.

    ADL & SPLC likewise would send an entire jewish goon squad of commie feminists and fags and dykes to their homes for 24/7 mass protest/Riots!

    And finally, African negros nationwide in EVERY medium and large city would go bezerko with Lootings and Riotings, ending with totally burning down, all those fanatical rabid militant negros were unable to rob, steal, or wreck & ruin….Basically it would make Detroits 1968 Riots of ground zero for savage negro take over of white cities look like childs play.

    And there is no denying this when an honest unbiased observation to compare a typical negro with, say, the monkey/ape/gorilla/chimp/baboon exhibits at the Detroit ZOO where each monkey type named are kept in nice cages right in a row, or very close proximity to each example of the several monkey types at that Zoo, is done…And to really cap off your Zoo negro monkey dna comparison experiment, take a ride from Woodward Ave. and 10-Mile road, where said Zoo is located, on a Detroit Public Buss.

    The buss ride from the Zoo to downtown Detroit is about 10 miles, long enough for the buss to gradually fill up with more, and more African negros. Then note how not only do African negros Look like, and even Act so much like a Real ape etc. They even emit the almost exact same stench as noticed when sitting on the bench across from those Zoo cages where the various monkey/baboon/ape types are kept within…It is uncanny the true resemblance I swear!

    And keep in mind as stated prior, NO other race of group of people have All these markers present, other than those mud shark coal burners’ offspring due to now they too inherit same DNA from the African daddy or mammy. Sooner or later some daring scientist dna expert with zero left to lose, Is going to go public with such DNA proof, if such does exist and so far I am 99% certain it does based upon 55 of my 65 years of lifetime observations, and especially my First 43 years of life dwelling in Detroit being in almost Daily Coontact with said Suspooks!

  277. Them Guys says:
    @Okechukwu

    Huston! We have arrived and have made definite Coontact with at least one rabid militant Suspook!

    • Replies: @manorchurch
  278. Them Guys says:
    @CCZ

    And when African blacks are left to their own devices, instead of roads and buildings and other new infrastructures etc. Whats left when savages are left to go it alone?

    The most worthless and useless race to ever exist. Who else is so stupid and low IQ to walk six miles each way, a total of twelve miles per day, just to retrieve a several gallon leaky bucket of water from one of africas many polluted, dirty bug and germ infested, unfit for animals let alone a human consumption small ponds or water hole? As Seen on TV ad commercials that Beg white americans to send Cash donations to assist those poor African savages.

    ANYBODY else all other races, would Dig a Well! and obtain potable good water, or at very least, other races would at least MOVE their Mud & Shit Mixture HUT Closer to the water hole so as to not need walk twelve miles each day, while carrying a heavy filled bucket back on return trip!

    Nobody else takes great pride in having an avg of 10-12 wives, with an avg of 120 Chillins between all dozen wives eh….Especially when same TV ads constantly show and tell viewers how badly starving every African there is….When one cannot provide enough food for self or self and one kid….Why keep Mass producing many more offspring?

    Thank God they do not have babies in Litters like a Dog huh!….This planet would have collapsed long ago if they did.

    It aint like there are a whole lot of Madonnas and the few other white Hollywood actress’ that are so fuckin brainwashed with whitey-Guilt, and so flush with spare cash so to go to Africa, and after visiting a few tribes then they select One very small young kid around age 2-3 yrs old and BUY that black kid which most matches the movie stars latest new Shoes & Purse combo recently purchased eh.

    Maybe if far more stupid white guilted Madonnas were willing to go there and BUY an African kid, and be willing to Pay $20,000 for it, just so she can bring it back to usa and Prance all over rodeo drive showing every liberal and fellow lefty there just how Un-Racist she now is, and looky here at her brand new black kid as Proof!….Maybe if a few million more were as duped and idiotic as Madonna is, it would be well worth being a Baby Factory so to be able to SELL More black kids to an white American fool idiot eh? That Charlize Theron idiot female out spent Madonna when she bought a small African jungle bunny and paid $25,000 us dollars for it!!

    I wonder if that black baby factory kid seller used her now Vast new us dollars wealth, mucho wealth per African standards eh…On a visit to Detroit to buy some Crack to Smoke huh?

    But I wouldn’t be holding my breath for this to happen any time soon…Plus last I checked, buying & selling africans to take them to a white or other nation and OWN said Kid was called Slavery and outlawed as of 1865 era No?

    The Most Useless and Worthless race to ever exist Bar None and 10,000 years of history proves it beyond All doubt period.

  279. Them Guys says:
    @Okechukwu

    Marxist Liberal Dems: In usa Everybody is 100% Equal…Which is why we Must provide so Many, Many, Many, Affirmative Actions to African Blacks so to Make them totally Equal to Whites!

    Yes and even now after 50 years, and at least $25-TRILLION $$$$!!!! Spent on AA programs, the entire mess has been a complete FAILURE!……Marxist Lib Dems: But that’s why we Must spend even MORE $$$ and TIME providing even MORE $$$ so to assist African Blacks with an avg IQ of around 80 IQ (if that) achieve an IQ of 100+ or better…And being lefty Marxist commies we shall Never Ever admit to ANY abject Failures Period…We are always willing to again Blame Whiteys for every said Failure of every stupid as a rock African savage spear chuckin jungle bunny though.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  280. @megabar

    I think it ultimately boils down to more conformism. (Same story for female underperformance relative to men).

    Lots of societies are low trust – India, Arabs, the East Mediterranean. Doesn’t stop them from performing in line with their IQs.

  281. @Anonymous

    Actually Kenya Kura noted that the incidence of East Asians in academia begins to drop off after the undergrad level.

    https://www.unz.com/jthompson/asians-bright-but-not-curious/#comment-1681937

    (Finishing university is a socially respectable norm. Grad school – not so much. Going into academia – not at all).

    • Replies: @Sunbeam
  282. Them Guys says:
    @Harbinger

    If this forums members took a Poll on which idiotic clown is the worse, between Ebolaniquious African Boy wonderment Vs. Momus the KhazarKikeisamongus….I wonder which clown would score the most votes eh?

  283. Them Guys says:
    @Mike Garrett

    Agree on all you stated. And just think if say Tomorrow every tv MSM had a new alert and went direct to whitehouse podium and to Trump for his important announcement….That would say.

    “My fellow American citizens…I and the entire congress, senate, and us supremes justices have finally figured out The Perfect and fully leagal solution for the racial ongoing problems that everyone knows shall never get solved thru the many policies and programs done to date.

    So I am very happy to state that we now have decided that due to such overwhelming hatred displayed by African blacks against white folks…and in order to assist blacks in every best way possible to be rid of such animosity and hatred of whites…We proudly announce today that beginning Tomorrow and to continue for 30 days until finished..We are going to enact a brand new solution policy program of.

    Seeking and locating EVERY African black within the usa’s 50 states….Then rounding up all of them and begin our 30 day endeavor to RELOCATE every black to AFRICA!

    Best yet folks…We are going to have the fed govnt Pay for this In Full! So as not a single cent shall be required of any blacks period….We fully believe beyond all doubts that doing so shall make every white hater black become the very happiest person ever in their miserable lives.

    So remember folks of every color and race in usa…We are doing this For Black happiness and well being, so never again will a black man or woman feel the need to hate whites ever again…Once in Africa every black will enjoy life among their own kind, and with no whites there all should go very swell eh.

    Some of our esteemed advisor staffers have confided in us and tell us that most African blacks from usa, once arrived in Africa, are likely to achieve utter greatness akin to that recent Hollywood movie called Wakanda!!….Dez bez Kangs an Sheeeiiittt!!!

    Please allow me to add that we are also seeking several Million heavily Armed whiteys to assist in keeping order incase any whites refuse to let their favorite negros leave America. This will assure total safety of every black as they exit stage leftist and board ships and planes already commissioned for this ground breaking solution agenda…

    EVERY worthless black nationwide would scream and howel like a wild banshee in heat if they heard such a plan no?….

    Same as jews in usa, the negros would conjure up every possible reason to NOT leave and go to Africa period. Like jews have a thousand and one reasons to tell us how much Love they have for state of Israel and jewry….yet over Half of worlds jews will never leave usa as long as at least one single Nickel is left to find and take. Only when less than a few hrs remain prior to Israel makes use of Samson option and fires a few Nukes at usa will then every jew flee as if their bagels were on fire.

  284. Sunbeam says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    In that post you linked, Kenya Kura said:

    “But if you look at the numberYou can simply look at the proportions of East Asian Americans at Caltech or U.C. campuses. Among undergrads, 40% or more are Asians, but graduate students are something like 20% (depending on departments). Faculty members are well less than 10%.”

    I’ve made a point about Caltech on this site before, but it didn’t draw much interest.

    HBD finds no fault with Caltech admission policies, pure merit right?

    But find actual production from Caltech grads. You know Nobels, Fields Medals, Silicon Valley startups, Christ getting filthy stinking rich as a Quant on Wall Street.

    They are pretty lacking compared to grads of other famed schools like MIT and Harvard. They don’t even seem to do as well as less elite Berkeley.

    Someone posted a list of Caltechers who had become famous in response to this point once. It was pretty much a list of of people from the middle of last century and a bit before. Some of whom were not even Caltech grads, they were simply on the faculty and had been educated at other institutions.

    Now Caltch has a much smaller student body than even a place like MIT. But as the much discussed smart fraction theory indicates, shouldn’t we notice Caltech grads more than we do now?

    I mean if you IQ tested Caltech students I imagine they will do noticeably better than Harvard students. So the tail end of the curve should be substantially higher at Caltech right?

    Yet I can almost guarantee you that in 20 years you’ll see far more important work and life trajectories from these Harvard students than the Caltech students.

    • Replies: @myself
  285. @Frederick V. Reed

    I have not been following this thread since I left for Romania on June 1.

    However, Fred kindly directed my attention to this comment, where he further expounded on his thoughts. The bulk of my response is reprinted below:

    1. I am not Alt Right, I am a Russian nationalist, just as you are a Mexican nationalist. Consequently, I am not overly (if at all) concerned with American immigration policy, including as it pertains to Mexico. Obviously, American nationalists, such as Thorfinnsson, will be extremely concerned and indeed “triggered” by it. But at the end of the day, I really am quite indifferent to this issue.

    2. I read only some of your articles (perhaps 25%). Of those I skim more than I read approximately half. I do not recall where you said that mass immigration was a mistake, but if so, apologies for inadvertently misrepresenting your position. However, your opposition (as I recall) even to relatively tame measures such as DACA repeal does make you an immigration dove in practice. I find it difficult to imagine you closing off the borders to any appreciable extent if you were to magically become US President.

    3. It is slightly ironic that you criticize me for misrepresenting the details of your position, but ascribe general positions to me that are far more incredible (“Fred thinks Mexicans are decent people and so favors mass immigration through open borders, the destruction of the white race, and the end of Western civilization”). If you read through my comments to your blog, you would note that I am neither a Latinophobe (addressing your excess Latinophilia is not Latinophobia), and if you read me more generally, you would also note that my concerns for the white race or Western civilization are quite limited.

    Objectively, it seems pretty likely that the Hispanics will not converge to US White IQ levels (even the early generations of Mexican immigrants haven’t, as Jason Richwine pointed out; so expecting this of Guatemalans seems all the more unrealistic). As the Hispanic share of the population increases due to higher fertility rates, younger age profiles, and continued immigration/family reunification, there will be negative pressure on average IQ – that is presumably a bad thing for the US, since lower IQ correlates well with many other negative things. OTOH, a more Latin US will lower the drinking age of 18 (nice for teens), more street graffiti (tastes differ), will have less political correctness (good for non-SJWs), and will be decidedly less enraptured by the prospect of fighting more wars for Israel (good for almost everyone).

    • Replies: @Rurik
    , @manorchurch
  286. Old Cynic says:
    @Rdm

    “The entire Chinese coolies built a transcontinental railroad, not a single symbol of achievement”

    I don’t quite understand that.
    Not just the expression “the entire Chinese…”, but that building a railway (any railway) needs to be rewarded by PhDs or Patents.

    If these people had built their railway in the seventh century, and had had to invent steam locomotives, develop signalling, and decide how to manufacture railway lines, then – yes – they would have been groundbreaking. If, however, they were just using products and techniques invented by others then I cannot see the relevance to this discussion of that project.

    If I am missing the point please let me know.

  287. Rurik says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    if you read me more generally, you would also note that my concerns for the white race or Western civilization are quite limited.

    virtue signaling

    • Replies: @manorchurch
  288. myself says:
    @Sunbeam

    For what it’s worth, I do have a pet theory which seems to fit observation.

    The East Asians who come to the developed West are precisely those personality types, from the first-generation onward (the initial immigrants after all having outsize influences on their descendants up to at least the grand-children, and if they can live long enough, the great grand-children) who are primed to shape themselves into the “professional, respectable, middle- and upper-middle class mold.” Forget breaking the mold – CONFORM to the mold!

    For these Asians, emigration is NOT about risk-taking. They were not coming to the Wild-West, or to the colonial frontier. Instead, they see North America, Europe, and Australia as safe destinations where they can peacefully ply their trades, get educated and live lives as engineers, doctors and other skilled, but not daring occupations. They crave and achieve stability, since they left Asia for precisely that reason.

    That means, they stay the hell away from what they consider “frivolity”.

    Observe the VERY REAL LIMITS of even Asian immigrant-descendants’ conformism: surrounded by left-leaning, loud, protesting classmates and co-workers, you would think Asians in the West, for social acceptance and belonging, WOULD CONFORM to that mold. Some do.

    But for the most part, they seem to just IGNORE the swirling agitations around them, to keep studying and working, and to just get on with their business. If they wanted to participate in “trouble”, they’d have stayed at home.

    Thus we see a dearth of risk taking among East Asians in the developed West, a pattern that persists for generations.

    This is in very sharp contrast to those Asians who’ve chosen to “STAY AND PLAY” in what’s already THE wild unregulated free-for-all – namely Asia itself and, broadly, across the developing world. Primarily China, to some extent South East Asia (where the Chinese are extremely active), now increasingly Africa, Latin America and greater Eurasia.

    Used to be, the West was the only place offering a chance at the “good life”. The best you could hope for, if you were Asian, was to be a well-compensated, staid, conformist corp “drone”. And you’d be happy to be even that.

    NO LONGER. Now I don’t speak for Japan, South Korea or Singapore. These are considered (by mainland Chinese) the safest, most pleasant, most staid, most conformist (and most boring) places to live in Asia – by far.

    As for mainland China, it was absolutely bat-shit crazy. In the tier-one regions, there was a constant boom-town atmosphere. Factories and businesses starting up, closing, expanding, imploding, re-opening. Fortunes made overnight, lost in six months, made again twice over three months after that. There are impossible, hare-brained schemes being hatched all the time in Beijing, Shanghai and Shenzhen. They will try anything, failure be damned.

    If you don’t mind MAYBE getting shot, kidnapped, caught in the crossfire, and living out among the “alien” (from the Han perspective) folk – get yourself to Central Asia, Latin America or Africa – where, according to Chinese net chatter (so I am told), the dangers, and rewards, are “breathtaking”.

    Asians do come to the West still, but as for the mainland Chinese, a clear trend has become evident.

    Many of the Japanese, Koreans and indeed even overseas Chinese with whom I spoke considered Mainlanders to be chaotic, “unruly”, “disobedient” and with a certain “barbaric and savage” dynamism in their outlook. Not my words, but the terms chosen make it apparent that other Asians are appalled at the Mainlanders.

    “Why do Mainland Chinese go to set up companies in Johannesburg, and do import-export in Lima? THEY COULD DIE! OH MY GOD! Mainlanders are COMPLETELY INSANE!” – a typical sentiment from non-Han Asians.

    Or maybe not so crazy.

    There are risk-averse Asians in the developed world. Then there are the risk-takers out in the rest of the planet. Just a personal observation.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  289. @Them Guys

    Huston! We have arrived and have made definite Coontact with at least one rabid militant Suspook!

    Jesus, what a moron. Houston, you dumbass.

    • LOL: Truth
    • Replies: @Them Guys
  290. @Rurik

    virtue signaling

    Now, right there’s a scene where I would be arrested for kicking ass and screaming incoherent insults, fersher.

    “Sorry, are ya? How about now? [whump!!]“

    • Replies: @Rurik
  291. @Anatoly Karlin

    Objectively, it seems pretty likely that the Hispanics will not converge to US White IQ levels

    Sure they will. The de facto national language will soon be Spanish, or the disgusting mess that latins make of it. What scores are whites going to get on Spanish IQ tests? With a little better nutrition, Hispanics will soon be as smart as your basic chinee-girl. Not the Indios, of course. Just real european-descended hispanics.

    You may rest assured that a solid 25% of America will be kept white, to provide soldiers for Israel and wimmens for negros.

    • Replies: @myself
  292. Rurik says:
    @manorchurch

    “Sorry, are ya? How about now? [whump!!]“

    well, you don’t have to settle for phantom arse whoopin’ since we have a virtue signaler right here -

    my concerns for the white race or Western civilization are quite limited.

    and I say ‘virtue signaler’, because I don’t even believe that he thinks that way, (since for one thing, the death of the West will bring down Russia with it, which is exactly what we’re all witness to today, as Russia is menaced by the exact same ((forces)) destroying the West).

    does Anatoly Karlin believe the Fiend will stop at Russia’s border once the West has been emasculated?

    Indeed, I suspect that the Fiend harbors more hatred in its spleen for Russia than it does for even Germany or England. Russia after all was the home to the Tsar, the most hated man in all of Judaica. The place where they were banished to the Pale of Settlement.

    so people who think they’re mollifying the forces of the Fiend by ‘virtue signaling’ their hostility to all things white and Western, are humiliating themselves to no apparent end.

    And I guess it just tweaks me a little to read a ‘Russian nationalist’ signal his “virtue” to a man like Fred Reed by proclaiming his animosity to all things white and Western.

    Who would have thought, ten years ago, that people would be demanding cred from Fred by expressing their hostility to all things white men.

    ‘So, you want me to think you’re a good person eh?

    well then how much do you despise white people? And Western values? And Americana?

    ‘I only truck with people who want to see Americana crushed under a tsunami of Mexicans and Mexican culture!’

    ‘for me to like you, you have to prove you hate yourself and your extended family’

    Then
    we’ll talk’

    • Replies: @manorchurch
    , @Truth
  293. myself says:
    @manorchurch

    With a little better nutrition, Hispanics will soon be as smart as your basic chinee-girl.

    This is a very, very low bar, since “your basic chinee-girl” has pretty poor nutrition, at least at the present generation.

    • Replies: @manorchurch
  294. @Rurik

    Gadzooks. You’re such a misogynist racist antisemitic redneck alt-rightist.

  295. @myself

    This is a very, very low bar, since “your basic chinee-girl” has pretty poor nutrition, at least at the present generation.

    Whuuuuuuuut? And beaners are eating good, ya think?

    • Replies: @myself
  296. @myself

    For better or worse, its my opinion that the Cultural Revolution and attendant death has been a bottleneck effect which has significantly changed the population. Often for the worse, but perhaps beneficial in other ways.

  297. myself says:
    @manorchurch

    No, Mexicans don’t eat well.

    But Chinese and other Asians (in Asia) probably eat even worse, and even less, to be honest. At least for now.

    You don’t want to use Chinese as a benchmark – that’s my point.

  298. Truth says:
    @Rurik

    Well you have to give Alfredo credit where it’s due; he does have a real, all-American T-shirt on.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  299. Them Guys says:
    @manorchurch

    So you never make spelling mistakes? good for you eh, I guess that makes you just too good for this planet. But hey, at least I spelled Coontact and Suspook correctly!

    Besides I admit my spelling is not very good…So what, I was just good at other things and as long as folks comprehend what the main message and meaning is, spelling mistakes are not something big to worry of or be a hand wringer about.

    And I can assure you that when I soon finish my Book on the truth about WWII, it shall have every word spelled properly…….Which wont take too long to edit and correct mistakes in spelling since the entire book has just one single page, which contains the main thrust truth of WWII, That being….Hitler was correct… WWII Truth in just Three Words.

    • Replies: @Truth
  300. Rurik says:
    @Truth

    he does have a real, all-American T-shirt on.

    and he’s drinking a ’40′

    of Bud no less!

    all the accouterments of a right proper Deplorable

    and from that perch he smugly denounces Deplorables as ‘gas station louts’ because they don’t like being on the losing end of Affirmative Action to Fred’s Mexicans and everyone else.

    right now they’re screeching about how Adolf Hitler Trump is splitting parents from their children!!

    as these ‘loving’ parents’ smuggle their children to the US illegally to use as leverage, knowing they’re going to be split up.

    But it’s not the fault of the illegal invaders, but Adolf Hitler/The Deplorables for not putting the children into the detention center with the criminals.

  301. Truth says:
    @Them Guys

    So you never make spelling mistakes? good for you eh, I guess that makes you just too good for this planet

    Well I mean, you did make a series of long posts about a group of people having low IQ… just sayin’.

  302. @Them Guys

    i have to laugh when i see the cost estimates. But more importantly, of those supposed numbers,

    more than 60% went to whites —– the lion’s share of AA goes to whites.

  303. Bliss says:

    Let’s see:

    The Germanic nations have ~5 point IQ advantage over the Slavic nations and ~3 times the per capita income (nominal). The East Asian nations have ~5 point advantage over the Germanic nations, therefore they should have 3 times the per capita income. Right? Can’t argue with HBD dogma can we?

    But since they don’t, yet, isn’t it reasonable to conclude that Europeans have been unjustly benefiting from affirmative action?

  304. Bliss says:

    As a matter of observable–if, to many, unwelcome–fact, virtually all of the work in STEM fields (science, technology, engineering, and mathematics) in America is done by whites.

    That’s a lie, and you know it too. 69% is not “virtually all” nor is it notably disproportional since whites are around 64% of the workforce:

    http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2018/01/09/diversity-in-the-stem-workforce-varies-widely-across-jobs/

    The majority of STEM workers in the U.S. are white (69%), followed by Asians (13%), blacks (9%) and Hispanics (7%). Compared with their shares in the overall workforce whites and Asians are overrepresented; blacks and Hispanics are underrepresented in the STEM workforce as a whole. Over the past 25 years the STEM workforce has become more racially and ethnically diverse, echoing increasing diversity in the workforce during that period. In 1990, 83% of STEM workers were white, 6% were Asian, 7% were black and 4% were Hispanic.

    In the STEM workforce, the typical Asian is paid substantially more than their white counterparts (125%) although Asians working in non-STEM occupations tend be paid less than whites (90%).

    The numbers tell that whites are the only race to have declined in the STEM workforce since 1990, going from 83% of STEM workers to 69%. Asians, blacks and hispanics all increased their STEM share, at the expense of whites.

    The real story is the rise of Asians. Not only are they disproportionately over-represented in STEM, they also earn a lot more (25%) than whites.

    • Replies: @Joe862
  305. RobRich says: • Website
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Reed has again written an excellent article based on his observations + generally received specifics.

    What’s interesting to me is that like most things conservatives say, though, they’re 75-100 years behind what the Libertarians –led by Hispanic-Britons, BTW–have asked and answered just as the progressives are about 50 years behind (except the masochist power-hungry far-left ones try and IMPOSE the Libertarian innovation/choice on all to kill off the conservatives; the far-left is like myopic jackdaws with their new libertarian shiny thing–civil rights, LGBT, socialist communes, Green awareness, plastic bags, sensible fracking, deregulate some to get the top 10% of the population to at least millionaires …which they drop and often then attack for the next craze AND which is why we need the brake of conservative common-sense). Here’s what I know on the specifics I learned at Libertarian salons decades ago and that determine how their leaders think.

    RANT ALERT: Just got off the plane from visiting with libertarian fans in Mali who’re fighting slavery there in a libertarian-conservative coalition. + 4 bourbons as I wait for my connecting flight. Long but fun rant follows. Stuff I know about Libertarians and what they’re doing:

    –They want to bring a general college education to the top 30% of every country’s population, preferably funded voluntarily and using things they pioneered like low-cost e-education. The idea is to get people college-conversant and socially tolerant with 1970′s college-knowledge, then get every country adopting the US Bill of Rights. THEN they’ll push to tighten up, maybe with a new degree scheme, maybe genetically higher IQ’s, whatever, WHILE encouraging people smart enough to listen to them to home-school to whatever standard they want (which many conservatives are now doing so much homeschool is no longer a ‘left’ issue and the far-left is getting worried). They’re thinking a peaceful fairly informed multi-cultural humanity capable of interstellar colonization and Libertarian-based off-world colonies. They call it S.M.I.L.E. That’s the Libertarian end game (for now).

    [MORE]

    –They dismissed the high IQ’s for China and groups like Jews decades ago as selection/test warping effects. They see them as actually averaging 95 compared to 110 West Euros when properly adjusted. Based on my travels in China and Israel and talking to psychologists especially libertarian psychologists and psychiatrists there I have to agree. I first heard the idea that soon there would be more genius IQ’s outside the US than in from Libertarians in maybe 1974. It’s not as bad as Reed thinks because he uses the far-left IQ stats I just trashed, but it’s also why the Libertarians are discussing making anyone with a genius IQ (130+, the world’s professionals, MD’s, etc. ) automatic (if they choose) US non-voting nationals, and let any city that wishes seceded and sign a governance compact as Palau did with the US. Why is the alt-right joining the far-left attacking these ideas, calling for more tariffs and trade v barriers and selling the idea of ‘US under seige’ and calling libertarian loonies?

    –They understand that West Euro whites especially in the US are tops for IQ. They basically self-selected during settlement. The settlers were the smarties or at least go-getters who left their slower Euro brothers behind. With assortative mating this is accelerating. They understand that the high-genius IQ (135+) need to have 3 or more kids to build the future we all want. They also understand that despite left propaganda the population numbers for many countries are overstated and their populations are declining (as some authors have begun to notice and starving to say the UN projections are full of it). While the rest of us emote on tariffs and immigration, they keep their eyes on the ball.

    –Being older than Reed I remember what algebra and science were like in US High Schools. It was actually policy in the ’40′s to NOT teach algebra as being confusing to the work force. In the ’50′s some libertarians introduced the idea of teaching infused lab science and calculus AND statistics in the schools. The High School algebra only 25% of kids are not ready for today would have been college algebra in 1951. The chemistry they know takes account of quantum theory. The standards/results Reed complains about are exactly what you would expect giving the numbers who are college-ready, include things like calculus and more important statistics and logic proofs/fallacies today. Yes, the kids are still getting a lot of far-left garbage, but no worse than in the ’50′s where it was rote-learning hurrah totalitarianizing US vs. socialist paradise USSR, and they’re also hearing a degree of Libertarianism which was not done then. Entrepreneurship classes were unavailable in 1970 colleges, now they’re common (thanx, libertarians)…I would argue it’s better as the Libertarians took out the commies or at least reformed them (China), so no one in college is saying look at the USSR for utopia.

    –Many colleges today are ‘open admission’ to catch the ones who fall through the cracks and need some extra help and time. Autistic kids who need extra help but would have been put in homes are becoming now computer programmers and making millions. Libertarians led the way. That’s good, not bad. Brilliant geniuses who got drafted and killed are drafted no more. That’s good, not bad. Thankx, libertarians. College in the US is basically free for low-income bright kids who use e-learning (check out Charter Oak College), which was legalized after a libertarian-led campaign.. That’s good, not bad. There is a revival and expansion of job-ready certificates and a AS degrees, again facilitated by libertarians. More minority kids are getting educated than ever and becoming middle-class instead. That’s good, not bad. In China, while the far-left says be more like the Chinese based on their phony PISA scores, they’re trying to become more like US colleges. They have the same process at a lower level–getting a generation college conversant, then tightening up. And Blacks may have their IQ problems here, but they beat most of the Chinese I’ve met, and Chinese academics I’ve talked to agree (in confidence).But a Black High-Schooler from a so-so neighborhood can trounce a TYPICAL Chinese college graduate as far as knowledge, thinking and team flexibility, and good old can-do American ‘don’t screw with me’ violence.

    –Here’s what the Libertarians are discussing NOW that the right will ‘discover’ in 75 years: Expand the US and grow it to a leisure robot-based economy to 50+% of the globe including a movement right now to bring Siberia (Putin hosted a conference recently for secession movements. The agenda was to show support for destabilizing independence movements. It became shambolic when the Siberian conferees said they wanted to become part of the US with Puerto Rico status. I was there. Total news blackout, as usual…) and West China (60 MM population total, nearly triple our land and resource base) into the US, along with other more-obvious low-population regions. No wonder the far-left is desperately spending billions to ridicule libertarian candidates and pervert the Electoral College with the NewSpeak ‘National Popular Vote’ and top-Two and other initiatives, to make new countries joining the US less attractive (and Putin suddenly attacked the Electoral College–the far-left doesn’t criticize him there).

    –The hara-kiri US right is still adopting communist attitudes like pro-tariff, anti-immigration, national SOCIALIST rhetoric, the recent push to raise ages-of-consent/anti-zoophilia, ‘equality language’ etc. The far-far-right religious were just the Nazi/Commies of the dark ages think that’s swell. (We are getting as smart as the Libertarians as far as IQ, anti-local regulation, low tax rates, etc. ) Our problem as conservatives is we DON’T conserve, we try and impose and end up parroting far-left stupidity. When the Libertarians stamp that nonsense out as they did our LGBT and racist hatred, they’ll give their full attention to the far-left again. They understand the only regulation we need is of the far-left. Not gun-control, crime-control, business-control, wage-control…we need left-control. I’m sorry I won’t live to see it, but the ‘De-Commiefication’ will be epic and I’d put up with a few guys in skirts to see the day.

    –The Libertarians first told me politics culture-lags culture, but helps adjust culture. The Libertarians won Viet-Nam. They started organizing there the day the US pulled out and got the hell out of their way (as it should do in the Mid-East). They’re turning the Party there into a libertarian-lite shell and more people there love capitalism than in the US (even a PEW survey grudgingly recognizes this). At this rate ‘communist’ will mean ‘capitalist’ in 2060. The Libertarians understand culture war. They have think tanks in every Islamic nation beavering away. The US rights and left governments spends billions and Iraq and Afghanistan STILL have no formal free speech/religious freedom.

    – In 1973 or so at Libertarian salons I was told that after their deregulation drive by 2013 the Cold War would be dead, the Iron Curtain and China would be the new US workshop/tourist trap, the US would be over 300 MM people , about every kid would be programming and using a computer, 10% of Americans would be millionaires and have trillion-dollar equivalent computers in their pockets, prices in many areas would be down 90%, the Dow would be heading over 20,000 and World War V would be the new Cold War against Islam and the religious far-right, and we would have ramps for people in wheelchairs on every street corner paid for by tax reductions. I laughed. Now they have a project to create privatized space stations FTL starships in 100 years and put all Americans on an automatic base income while abolishing taxes. I don’t laugh now.

    –The Libertarians have made it easy for us (I’m a conservative libertarian) conservatives to have a 60%-90% benign white world of high-IQ geniuses in a century of we take PRIVATE action in our bedrooms and homes. Conservative-centrist-High IQ to-do: Babies, home-school/e-college on the classics and math and trades, re-build the extended family, libertarian coalitions have shown us how to lower tax RATES/zany regulations to protect home/small business. They’re basically talking the ‘Star Trek universe’ (despite the misinformation by the far-left and his unhappy wife, Roddenberry was a staunch Libertarian trying to portray a libertarian-light future) with plenty of room for dissenters and traditional cultures and space-faring Hutterites and Kibbutzniks…If we conservatives want to help we should make a goal, and should encourage every especially non-far-left US White Euro and the high-trust/inventor/low-crime culture and higher IQ they possess — to :

    –Have 5 kids for two generations while preserving our Electoral College and Bill of Rights AND ADVOCATE NOTHING ELSE.

    –In one generation that’s 1 billion (sayonara, Yellow Peril), in another that’s planetary dominance as we Euros once had without the stupid mistakes. The only people having an immigration problem will be the rest of the world FROM US, which BTW (as in Africa, not reported in the US media) many on the street in Africa, Asia, the Islamic World, and Latin America would love it if they could split their country with US ‘mentors’…If we ask the lower-IQ to focus on no more than 2 kids and incentivize it would help but is not strictly necessary as the far-left anti-rights/US/reverse racist platform is dismantled. We conservatives LOVE to talk unhistorically about college algebra but can’t seem to do simple math.

    –In summary: 5+ kids, with 60 CLEP credits transferable to college and a trade by 18 or so, sustainable home/home business. 5 BB Americans in a 6BB world in 2 generations. Or 5BB in a 10BB world. Whatever. Sure beats today’s alt-right ‘leaders’ with 0 White kids.

    –I wish I was 30 again. I would focus not on a bigger conservative movement but that I would need a bigger bedroom. A big-BIG-bigger-bad-bada-bedroom.

    Boarding call.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  306. @RobRich

    Expand the US and grow it to a leisure robot-based economy…

    Well, since the alien dreadnought worked so well for Telsa, it stands to reason that it should work even better once scaled up massively.

  307. It is just overhead, costing about 5% of GDP. No biggy except when the beneficiaries actually decide that the have real value rather than being ‘impedimenta’.

  308. Chinese are smart. But so far over thousand years they have not produced geniuses. I believe on average Chinese, Japanese and Koreans just have less stupid people but they also fail to produce outstanding minds. Until they produce next Newton, Einstein, Faradey, Maxwell and so forth so on they are just good at using others breakthroughs but incapable of their own.

  309. MarkinLA says:
    @Anon

    Well at my college (UCLA in the 70s and 80s) they weren’t. We had a few Asian professors in electrical engineering and computer science. There are more now, admittedly. Of course, some of the white professors left to start companies like Broadcom who then get replaced by newly minted PhDs.

    However, what has that got to do with Asians writing spaghetti code? One of the characteristics of Asian programmers that I saw tended to be their desire to jump right into a problem and start coding rather than spend any time doing design. The idea was always to look good according to the schedule. However, they usually produced inefficient code that didn’t always work the first time. Rather than admit they needed a redesign they fixed it by continually adding IF statements to it until is seemed to work.

    This works as long as you don’t have any memory or processing time constraints. To people programming today this seems like something you don’t need to worry about but 40 years ago, you had to.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @myself
  310. MarkinLA says:
    @Anon

    Nobody pays any attention to Thomm. He is an idiot that only Truth pays any attention to.

    • Replies: @Thomm
  311. Joe862 says:
    @Bliss

    I’d guess asians make more because they tend to work in big cities, very expensive parts of the country. Whites are more likely to be IT workers throughout the country and in many cases in cheaper parts of it. I’m a midwest IT worker and what I make would be low in silicon valley, new York, boston but in a distant Chicago suburb the money goes a whole lot further.

    I’m working almost exclusively with Indians and with a lot of Indian written code and it makes me feel good about my own skills. Most of them are terrible. There are good ones but they’re definitely the exception.

    Another thing that’s obvious to me is that the large scale outsourcing to india is 100% about management bonuses. The shareholders aren’t better off, the clients aren’t better off, the laid off employees aren’t better off, but some costs were moved from areas that are easy to measure like programmer salaries to areas that are less easy to measure like drastically lowered quality and slowwwww progress. The stock goes up when they announce the plan to outsource and right back down when profitability mysteriously fails to improve for any significant length of time.

    • Replies: @Bliss
  312. Anon[298] • Disclaimer says:
    @MarkinLA

    However, what has that got to do with Asians writing spaghetti code?

    Not much, but you mentioned software engineering (not my field, but I had to take courses in it), so I figured I’d give my experience on it.

    Indians from India generally produce sloppy product, that’s undeniable. Don’t know about Chinese, I never checked my professors’ code.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  313. MarkinLA says:
    @Anon

    Asians who become professors are extremely rare so you can’t go by what they may do. In addition, many computer science professors didn’t get their PhDs because they are great programmers. They usually got it from some research related to CS. One guy I know got his for developing something relating to parallel processing when it was in its infancy. 40 years ago reducing mainframe idle time was very important and memory swapping algorithms were developed. You don’t need to code much for that. Now I doubt anybody cares about that anymore since memory is virtually unlimited and we even have solid state disk drives that are nothing but memory chips.

    Every Asian programmer doesn’t write bad code. It is just that their mindset (especially fresh off the boat types) about putting the schedule first causes a higher percentage of them to program in the manner I mentioned. I never saw any code written by my Asian professors either but I assume they must have done a decent job, even if their research had little to do with programming.

    • Replies: @Thomm
  314. Ralphael says:

    I wonder if the H1 Visa is considered ‘affirmative action’, LOL.

  315. Thomm says:
    @MarkinLA

    Nobody pays any attention to Thomm. He is an idiot that only Truth pays any attention to.

    Hey, wigger, you are outright sulking even months later after I put you in your place and bloodied you up.

    Remember, WN wiggers like you have negro IQs.

    Heh heh heh heh

    • LOL: Truth, manorchurch
    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  316. Thomm says:
    @MarkinLA

    Asians who become professors are extremely rare so you can’t go by what they may do.

    Hey, faggot, about a third of professors at Harvard Business School and Stanford Business Schools are Asian.

    As usual, you advertise your bottomless ignorance by speaking about a subject that is meant for people with IQs 50 points higher than yours (your IQ is 70, while this is a 120 IQ subject).

    Your stupidity never ceases to amaze. It is exceeded only by your faggotism.

    Heh heh heh heh

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  317. myself says:
    @MarkinLA

    This works as long as you don’t have any memory or processing time constraints. To people programming today this seems like something you don’t need to worry about but 40 years ago, you had to.

    Sloppy inefficient code is not limited to the work of Asian coders. It’s a widespread phenomenon, ever since the power and performance of hardware began to outstrip the need for tight, elegant coding.

    According to an old professor of mine, this began to be noted beginning in the late 1980s, in Silicon Valley.

    Now, the problem is much worse, as we have generations of coders who assume that powerful hardware will make up for poor software. Today’s software writers are more concerned about being on schedule than about code efficiency.

    This trend is worldwide.

    • Replies: @Joe862
    , @MarkinLA
  318. Joe862 says:
    @myself

    Code needs to be efficient enough but in a lot of cases simple, readable code is better than code that is optimized for performance but difficult to maintain. Older programmers who remember the days when efficiency was more important tend to make an overly big deal out of it. It’s better for it to be fast enough all the time and when it needs to be changed quickly it can be because it hasn’t been made overly complicated in service of unnecessary efficiency.

    In my experience, in the last ten years the practice is to have applications built by Indian companies. They deliver something that sort of works and project managers and various other wastes of space like this because they can call it finished. Then, over the next few years the application is largely rewritten by employees to work adequately. One of the big problems is that there’s almost no such thing as a failed internal project. Specs and schedules can be changed and success will be declared regardless.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    , @MarkinLA
  319. Code needs to be efficient enough but in a lot of cases simple, readable code is better than code that is optimized for performance but difficult to maintain.

    High-performing code is not difficult to read — not for those who are qualified to read it. High-performing code is, in fact, easier to maintain than spaghetti code. Properly commented, it is a breeze to read, amend, or append. We always paid for complete commenting and made it a contract requirement — another good reason not to use Indian programmers is that you can’t understand the comments, either.

    • Replies: @Joe862
    , @Achmed E. Newman
  320. Bliss says:
    @Joe862

    I’d guess asians make more because they tend to work in big cities, very expensive parts of the country. Whites are more likely to be IT workers throughout the country and in many cases in cheaper parts of it.

    That’s probably true to a good extent. Another probable reason is that asians are even more over-represented in higher paying STEM jobs requiring advanced degrees in STEM from elite universities. Just look at the very disproportionately high percentage of asians doing tech in Silicon Valley for example.

  321. Joe862 says:
    @manorchurch

    Performance optimized code is very frequently verbose and more difficult to read. There has been plenty written about this. Google “prematurely optimized code” for some conversations or just look at program optimization in Wikipedia.

  322. @Joe862

    To be fair, this is a classic incentive problem and one which I’m personally rather familiar with in my industry work: in Taleb’s words, there’s no skin in the game, or at least no skin in the game to encourage this.

    Insofar as the programming teams and the project managers are concerned, they are rated only for their ability to deliver on time and according to spec, so even if what is produced is actively of negative value some two or three years down the line, there is no one to appropriately “blame.” The PMs are pushing the coding teams to rush; the requirements may have been set incorrectly by the specs team, and so on. You can hold no one responsible; responsibility has been intentionally dissolved among multiple groups and individuals. And corporate performance is pretty much based on the quarterly earnings report, so publically traded companies effectively have an attention span of 4-months, and often seem to make bad long-term decisions in order to uphold such short-term commitments. IIRC Dell reacquired a majority shareholder position in order to try to stop that.

    I think startups tend to do this better, but the longer a company has been running and the larger it is, this is almost a natural bureaucratic effect. The commentator myself would know if this is different in China to any extent; I assume that of course, the companies are younger and haven’t had a chance to suffer such spiritual atherosclerosis yet and the brutality of competition there leaves little patience for such games(though my opinion is that short-term thinking is totally present, look at all of the scams). For India, this is a deeply rooted cultural component and exhibits itself not only in their corporate output, but also in the governance of their country.

  323. @manorchurch

    I thought the guy’s point is this: Say, in Perl you can write (and they have contests on this) a one line statement that would take others 10 lines. Sure, the 1 line might be interpreted (or is it compiled, it’s too long ago…) quicker and be cooler, because it shows you know your stuff. However, the 10 lines, with appropriate comments at each step when necessary, would be much easier looked at later on.

    Well, we are in agreement on the commenting.

    That’s my take, but this would be an interesting discussion under an iSteve thread.

    • Replies: @manorchurch
    , @Anon
  324. MarkinLA says:
    @Thomm

    You didn’t put anybody “in their place”. You just showed everybody what a total idiot you are. You made claims about Asians not getting affirmative action and would not admit you were wrong when everybody proved it to you. Now you play some kind of internet tough guy.

    Your stupid pathetic act isn’t even funny to a 13 year old. I wasn’t going to bother responding to your stupidity anymore but needed to remind everybody what you really are.

    • Replies: @Thomm
  325. MarkinLA says:
    @Thomm

    Once again the moron speaks. The original thread was about the supposed large numbers of Asian professors in STEM and my response was about the professors I had at UCLAS in the 70s and 80s.

    So the idiot Thomm chimes in on something completely irrelevant as always.

    • Replies: @Thomm
  326. MarkinLA says:
    @myself

    Yes, there are bad programmers everywhere but in my personal experience Asians take the lead in this category. You have to understand that elegant code shows somebody who actually is trying to understand the problem BEFORE he starts coding. Bad coding is usually the result of people who start coding long before they completely understand the problem.

    Of course, the problem is papered over by more memory and faster processors today. However, this lack of thinking is probably why all these systems seem to be so easily hacked.

  327. MarkinLA says:
    @Joe862

    Code needs to be efficient enough but in a lot of cases simple, readable code is better than code that is optimized for performance but difficult to maintain.

    The two are not mutually exclusive. Just like writing, you can be concise and easily understood. Yes there are fancy ways to embed multiple operations inside a simple statement so it does the work of 4 statements but that isn’t what efficiency is all about (the compiler may or may not build efficient code no matter how those sub-units are ordered). Efficiency is about understanding the problem and creating an algorithm based on the unique aspects of the problem.

    A perfect example of this is the use of recursion in a program. Some solutions are horrendously difficult to solve without it but a lot of programmers don’t have a clue about it and try and solve it without it. The end result is a mess of IF statements piled on top of each other.

    • Replies: @Anon
  328. Thomm says:
    @MarkinLA

    Nope, you didn’t specify STEM, you dishonest faggot.

    Over a third of professors at top business schools are Asian. Get a clue.

    Back to engineering (since you imagine this helps your case), the Stanford Engineering faculty appears to be about 25% Asian. This took about 5 seconds to look up.

    https://engineering.stanford.edu/people/faculty/grid

    A 70-IQ wigger like MarkinLA is not bright enough to understand percentages or even look up basic things online.

    He is not qualified to discuss faculty. However, he IS a specialist in FAGculty, because that is what he is.

    Heh heh heh heh

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  329. Thomm says:
    @MarkinLA

    Asians don’t get affirmative action. Writers here like John Derbyshire have proved it. Section 8A has not helped any significant number of Asians.

    You keep getting humiliated because you are too dumb to examine the facts.

    Are you really this stupid? Well, of course you are.

    Get off my lawn, faggot!

  330. @Achmed E. Newman

    I thought the guy’s point is this: Say, in Perl you can write (and they have contests on this) a one line statement that would take others 10 lines.

    What I got from Joe’s “point” was that he is not speaking from expertise or experience. Then, up pops Markinla with boilerplate 90′s-think, so ditto.

    I wrote thousands of lines of assembler code before Walter Bright wrote a C compiler that, sure, had some overhead, but made assembler unnecessary, except for the occasional interrupt handler.

    I mean you no offense, but my opinion of “performance code” remains the same.

    Have a nice day.

    • Replies: @Joe862
  331. Anon[298] • Disclaimer says:
    @MarkinLA

    It depends. Sometimes optimization is just incredibly messy. But code that was written badly to start out with is going to be simultaneously messy and inefficient.

    I mentioned I didn’t generally check my professors’ code but I was able to do that for assembly language (that professor was Caucasian, for whatever that’s worth, and it wasn’t in the software engineering department). It was very tightly written. I could usually beat it for compactness but then I would lose out slightly on speed.

    I’ve also done hand-tuning for speed in C, where the result can as I said above be very messy. I suspect that sort of thing is what Joe862 was getting at. It really does work and is occasionally though rarely important. Also, in array programing languages, which are common in mathematics, sometimes the intuitive way of doing something is very wasteful, and a less obvious way has to be used. This at least is a problem which can usually be solved with good commenting.

    I suspect you know all these things, but not everyone else reading this thread will.

    Anyway this has little to do with “spaghetti code” which in its purest form is both unreadable and barely functional.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  332. Anon[298] • Disclaimer says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    interpreted

    Yes, it would be interpreted, and this sort of thing is very important for scripting languages in general where overhead can be hidden in weird ways.

    Programming debates are the worst debates so I’m probably going to check out after this comment.

    But it’s a very blind-men-and-elephant sort of thing. Someone says “In my experience, X.” and someone else says “In MY experience, Y, so shut up, you idiot!”

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    , @manorchurch
  333. Joe862 says:
    @manorchurch

    You’re the typical precious geriatric programmer who’s experience is way out of date. If you were really interested in the subject you could look it up and get the various perspectives but clearly you’re not.

    There are multiple factors. Performance or readability/maintainability may be the more important factor depending on the situation. If you’re writing complicated data processing code that gets run once an hour or once a day and that needs frequent logic changes then readability is probably more important than anything but very large efficiency differences. If you’re writing a function that’s going to be called a billion times/day then maximum efficiency is more important. It’s not hard to understand.

    • Replies: @manorchurch
  334. @Anon

    Everyone should just code by punch card anyway.

  335. MarkinLA says:
    @Thomm

    The THREAD was about STEM since the other person started it with his comment about his college.

    I have figured out why you have such a huge lack of reading comprehension. You are not really an Indian at all although you do imitate a rather stupid one.. You are one of those chimpanzees who they are training to speak to humans. This is why you miss everything and put out tons of irrelevant gibberish. While you can point to your message board and “say” things like “I want suck dick” and “I want cum in ass”, it is impossible for you to understand real human interaction and your trainers haven’t figured out a way to explain what is being said.

    Of course, even a trained chip would not continue with your idiotic canned drivel about your favorite subject – faggots, so I suspect when you are sucking yourself off, your trainers have created a bot to stand in your place.

  336. @Anon

    Programming debates are the worst debates so I’m probably going to check out after this comment.

    Boy, you ain’t a-kidding!
    ;-)

  337. @Joe862

    You’re the typical precious geriatric programmer who’s experience is way out of date. If you were really interested in the subject you could look it up and get the various perspectives but clearly you’re not.

    Son, go bullshit someone else. You bore me. I retired as CIO of a government logistics contracting corporation in 2015. Been coding since I was 18 — yup, IBM 360. So kiss my ass.

    • Replies: @Joe862
  338. MarkinLA says:
    @Anon

    My last job was as a so called Software Quality Engineer. I reviewed software written by mostly EEs to test electrical components like dies from a wafer. I know all about the uselessness of coding for speed today. One of the guys (Asian from Taiwan) was one of the worst programmers you ever saw -he was a decent EE and a really easy guy to work with. I had to verify that his software worked. It was so stupidly inefficient, when we had layoffs and he was gone (he was laid off with a lot of people because our salary structure was so high compared to companies in our area and lots of good people got the boot), one of the other EEs assigned to take over his job suggested we trash the whole thing and redo it.

    Just for fun I did a complete rewrite and used every speed improving trick I could. The difference was two seconds for a 7 and 1/2 minute test. Most of the time was spent waiting for the data from the die and the compute time was negligable given a 3 gigahertz Pentium type processor. Given that all medical products code has to be verified for every change, the amount of time reverifying the code in man-months versus losing 2 seconds a die just wasn’t worth it.

    If the compiler is good at optimization, the end result will simply be very close to what a good assembly programmer would have done in the first place. I was programming for embedded systems back when the difference between what a compiler would produce and what a good assembly language programmer could produce were so vastly different that I usually chose to do it in assembler. Some macr0-assemblers were so powerful that you almost thought you were using a compiler.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  339. @MarkinLA

    Do you think that the rise of practices such as Scrum has worsened good coding practices? What about test-driven development?

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  340. MarkinLA says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    I retired in 2010 and my whole career was in embedded systems programming on mostly Intel based processors. I haven’t paid too much attention to anything since then and anything outside embedded stuff when working. So I have no opinion (and little to no knowledge).

  341. Joe862 says:
    @manorchurch

    Everyone on the internet is a super-genius big shot. Doesn’t matter, you’ve got nothing. I think the practice of random people on the internet trying to make up for their lack of substance by claiming to be big shots needs its own name. Is there already a word for this? Maybe fred can make one up.

    • Replies: @manorchurch
  342. Truth says:

    Hey guys, I see the white-male solidarity movement is in good hands…

    • Replies: @manorchurch
  343. @Joe862

    Everyone on the internet is a super-genius big shot. Doesn’t matter, you’ve got nothing. I think the practice of random people on the internet trying to make up for their lack of substance by claiming to be big shots needs its own name. Is there already a word for this?

    Son, you have ego-compensation issues. A word of advice — which you will most assuredly ignore — relax, calm down. Strident insistence on the validity of solely your own interpretations is a strong indicator of feelings of inferiority, for which you compensate. Etc, etc … you become your own worst enemy.

    Take it for granted that, deep down inside, nobody really gives a shit what you think. Operate on that basis, and life will be a beach, where you surf in endless summer.

    • Replies: @Joe862
  344. @Truth

    Hey guys, I see the white-male solidarity movement is in good hands…

    No thanks to YOU!! LOL.

    Perhaps that theme could use some development. White males regard other white males as their only legitimate competition, and white males are bred for competitiveness. It’s difficult to turn that trait around to enhance white male cooperation.

  345. Joe862 says:
    @manorchurch

    I’m having a great time smacking you around. You seem to think I should be conceding to your complete lack of argument. Why? Disagreeing with you means I have an inferiority complex? That’s stupid even for the internet.

    Regarding the internet. What you have here is the argument you can make. Does it hold up or not? It doesn’t matter what your job or any other personal characteristics are. It’s the internet, you can make anything up about yourself you want and nobody knows any different. As soon as someone starts talking about themself in an argument you know they’ve got nothing. Obviously.

    • Replies: @manorchurch
  346. @Joe862

    I’m having a great time smacking you around. You seem to think I should be conceding to your complete lack of argument. Why? Disagreeing with you means I have an inferiority complex? That’s stupid even for the internet.

    Such devastating technique. I yam in awe. So perfectly, seamlessly Millennial.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    , @Joe862
  347. @manorchurch

    Do you still code for weekend projects, etc?

    • Replies: @manorchurch
  348. Joe862 says:
    @manorchurch

    You’ve got nothing. It’s quarter after five and I’m starting my work day. What time do members of your lazy ass generation start work? hmmmmm?????

    • Replies: @manorchurch
  349. @Joe862

    You’ve got nothing. It’s quarter after five and I’m starting my work day. What time do members of your lazy ass generation start work?

    Sometime after the help cleans the house and has breakfast ready.

    Your resentment is typical of Millennials. I understand, implicitly.

    • Replies: @Joe862
  350. @Daniel Chieh

    Do you still code for weekend projects, etc?

    Not much. I built some SQLite DLLs last winter, for mostly non-nefarious purposes. ;-)

    • LOL: Daniel Chieh
  351. Joe862 says:
    @manorchurch

    Your lack of substance combined with some apparently unshakeable belief in your unsupported and rather stupid opinion is typical of baby boomers. You’ll be remembered as the least generation for sure. Also, I’m not a millennial. Being wrong doesn’t seem to bother you so I’m sure you won’t care but it is yet another thing you’re completely wrong about.

    In case you were wondering, changing the subject is not a clever new tactic you just invented. Your repeated attempts to change the subject of the conversation to me by arbitrarily assigning me characteristics is completely childish and ridiculous.

  352. In case you were wondering, changing the subject is not a clever new tactic you just invented. Your repeated attempts to change the subject of the conversation to me by arbitrarily assigning me characteristics is completely childish and ridiculous.

    Oh, dear, you are quite the insistent “little kid” personality. Obsessed with yourself and what you fancy as your dignity and/or reputation, you attribute to others those characteristics most evident in your own personality. You could not bear so much as a suggestion of an error on your part. Despite a very obvious lack of experience in software development and programming, you insisted that your interpretation of optimization processes (which vary according to application) absolutely MUST be as you described.

    You don’t know what you’re talking about, and it shows. A lot. Were you a Millennial, at least you would have an excuse.

    • Replies: @Joe862
  353. Joe862 says:
    @manorchurch

    no doofus, you’re obsessed with me. I have no interest in discussing myself or your opinion of me. As I’ve said multiple times now, there are multiple factors including readability, maintainability, performance and of course the amount of time available to write the code. The easiest to read code is frequently not the most efficient. Sometimes it is but I’ve certainly seen lots of situations where it isn’t. See the arguments about appropriate cursor use, for example. A lot of the time it’s the easiest to code and the easiest to read but not the most efficient.

  354. no doofus, you’re obsessed with me.

    Nah. Now, I do find it amusing that you continue to say different things in different ways, while insisting that every point I make is wrong, and every one you make is right. All the time farting the silliest array of ad hominem nonsense.

    There’s a lot of people like you — it is the dominant personality characteristic of many people who frequent forums. It is a craving for recognition, for validation. You haven’t got any of that here, have you? It must be terribly frustrating. I wish I could feel sorry for you, but it’s part of the learning process for maturation to adult behavior. You may get there; you may not.

  355. Joe862 says:

    You’ve gotta be a robot or participating in some kind of experiment. No way you’re a real person.

  356. Tantor says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    The article you reference about the origin of zero is questionable. Look at the yellow circled area. The stone containing the zero character is heavily scarred. I doubt their claim that it represents the character zero.

    https://www.ancient-code.com/the-origin-of-the-number-zero/

    It’s silly to claim that zero was “Neither a white or western contribution.” Nobody knows for sure. What we do know is that the ancient Indo-Aryan tribes were most likely Central or East Europeans. The linguistic roots are unquestionable.

    “Both mainstream Urheimat solutions locate the Proto-Indo-European homeland in the vicinity of the Black Sea.”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Aryan_migration

    Also, the Sumerians had a particular affinity for blue eyes.

    http://www.ancientpages.com/2017/02/23/mysterious-sumerian-statues-big-blue-eyes-sign-gods/

  357. Dr. Doom says:

    Fred lives in Mexico. You Gringos see a Hollywood version of Mexico. All you Gringos imagine Mexico is like East LA. Uh, no.
    Mestizos do the same shit in Mexico they do here. Gardening and picking crops. Mexico was built by Hernando Cortez, Gringo. Watch Univision sometime. Its like TV from the 1950s dubbed into Spanish.
    The Presidente is a Spaniard. He can probably trace his lineage back to a Spanish Conquistador. Those cheap La Raza kids don’t know Jack about Mexico. They speak Spanglish and go to Anti-White Public Child Abuse.
    Pancho Villa looks like Cheech Marin in the movies. The Real Pancho Villa don’t look like that, Mang.

    You don’t know Mexico. Hernando Cortez is the Padre of their Country Gringo.

    Aztecs don’t even have a reservation.

    • Replies: @manorchurch
  358. @Dr. Doom

    All you Gringos imagine Mexico is like East LA. Uh, no.

    You seem to miss the point. We gringos don’t give two shits about Mexico. We don’t imagine anything about Mexico at all. We intend to expel all Mexicans from the USA, violently if necessary.

    Got it now? Just a fine point, very simple to understand.

  359. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    35 years ago? The affirmative action law was passed 50 years ago in 1968.

    Lowering of standards was done by judicial fiat, Griggs vs Duke Power and Kaiser vs Weber and others in the 1970s.

    It was all over by Griggs in the early 1970, only about 5 years.

    Check your facts.

  360. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @anon

    Much, much better suggestion. As well as AA pilots, have all the mechanics that service those planes be grads of the Tuskegee Institute of Affirmative Action African American Airplane Mechanics.

  361. Is Affirmative Action a cargo cult?
    by Lawrence Auster

    http://www.amnation.com/vfr/archives/015471.html

  362. Okechukwu says:
    @res

    P.S. You are really something. The more you say the more ridiculous you become. Sometimes it is better to remain silent.

    Pfff…you are so transparently easy and manipulable. That post of mine you quoted came straight out of pushing a white supremacist troll’s buttons 101. And as if on cue, you pounced on that red meat and became incredibly triggered.

    FYI, for my generation and younger, dating or marrying interracially is nothing particularly noteworthy. I’ve known white girls since from about the time I took my first steps, and I’ve dated them since middle school. So while, as a typical white supremacist troll, you believe fucking a white girl is my life’s ambition, for me it’s about as remarkable as a walk to the bathroom. I understand that you morons idealize white women as these heavenly, ethereal, perfect beings. But for me they’re like any other women: far from heavenly, far from ethereal and well short of perfect.

    • LOL: res
    • Replies: @res
  363. res says:
    @Okechukwu

    Idiot. I understood that. My point was that in the process of trying to troll white supremacists (which I am not, idiot, but I repeat myself) you became a caricature yourself.

    It is funny that is the only part of my comment you responded to. You really don’t have much when it comes down to it, do you?

    But please go back to being a troll. That suits your intellectual level.

    P.S. 12 days with no response from you was peaceful. Hopefully there will be more interludes like that.

    • Replies: @Okechukwu
  364. Okechukwu says:
    @res

    It is funny that is the only part of my comment you responded to. You really don’t have much when it comes down to it, do you?

    What? Did you think the rest of your comments were sagacious? It was more of the same. In other words, total and complete bullshit.

    Experts in the field have determined beyond a shadow of a doubt that white people are the prime beneficiaries of Affirmative Action in the United States. But no, we should instead rely on the authority of some random troll on Unz Review. No thanks.

    Cute attempt at damage control, though, having fallen victim to getting your white supremacist buttons pushed. We all know that you sexually deviant white power weirdos aspire to regulate sexual relations between consenting adults. That’s how I was able to hook you so easily with the reference to my wife.

    Oh, and Harvard does indeed have openings specifically for black students. Don’t take my word for it, contact them. To say that they don’t would be to assume that Harvard would ever countenance a student body with few if any black students.

    • LOL: res
    • Replies: @res
  365. res says:
    @Okechukwu

    Did you think the rest of your comments were sagacious?

    Compared to yours?! By all means. I am particularly interested in your evidence supporting your assertion that white women benefit most per capita from affirmative action.

    white people are the prime beneficiaries of Affirmative Action in the United States.

    Not per capita, idiot. Check out the SAT boosts by race for college admissions.

    Cute attempt at damage control, though, having fallen victim to getting your white supremacist buttons pushed. We all know that you sexually deviant white power weirdos aspire to regulate sexual relations between consenting adults. That’s how I was able to hook you so easily with the reference to my wife.

    LOL! Do you have anything other than fact-free ad hominems?

    Oh, and Harvard does indeed have openings specifically for black students. Don’t take my word for it, contact them. To say that they don’t would be to assume that Harvard would ever countenance a student body with few if any black students.

    I don’t doubt that. Though how you think it supports your assertion that white people benefit most from affirmative action is beyond me.

    • Troll: Okechukwu
    • Replies: @Okechukwu
  366. Okechukwu says:
    @res

    Yes, whites benefit more from AA per capita as well benefiting significantly more as a group. Stop asking for evidence when I and others have already provided evidence in great abundance. It’s just like you denying you’re a white supremacist when in fact your rather prodigious output on these boards clearly indicate that you are. Albeit you comically try to “science it up” with your cheesy graphs and incoherent verbiage rooted in 19th century phrenology. Which begs the question, do you even have a job or a life or is promoting racist pseudoscience your career? If so, I hope someone’s paying you for it.

    • LOL: res
    • Replies: @res
  367. res says:
    @Okechukwu

    Stop asking for evidence when I and others have already provided evidence in great abundance.

    Where? If it is in such great abundance this should be easy for you. And while we are on this topic, given that virtually all of the costs of affirmative action are borne by white males your position is ridiculous even ignoring the (still important) per capita point regarding white women compared to NAMs. Idiot.

    It’s just like you denying you’re a white supremacist when in fact your rather prodigious output on these boards clearly indicate that you are.

    And since when do white supremacists believe both Jews and East Asians have higher average IQs than white gentiles? Idiot.

    You really don’t have anything other than fact-free ad hominems. Pathetic. Idiot.

    P.S. Your not understanding graphs, statistics, and quantitative argument does not make my comments incoherent. That just means you aren’t as smart as you think you are. Idiot.

  368. @Anon

    https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-supreme-court/401/424.html

    This case has nothing to do with quotas, which i contend did not reach practice as it is today until about 35 years ago. But as it has no bearing on the question of quotas — no issues with me. AA was part of the civil rights act — 1968

    What I do take issue with is your complete misrepresentation of the case here . In short the case is about impacts from past discrimination despite the practices being abandoned, the highering of whites without diplomas who functioned effectively, and the role of title VII in redress, the only discussion about proportion was to the use of large number of blacks that were rejected from consideration — and it appears the courts ruled that as insufficient for discrimination ==

    it is the abuse of data that is egregious here and there is no excuse for the way in which you mangled the case in question. As for checking one’s facts, I would encourage you to read case material before applying it to support and contention it does not.

    United States Supreme Court
    GRIGGS v. DUKE POWER CO., (1971)
    No. 124
    Argued: December 14, 1970 Decided: March 8, 1971

    [MORE]

    Negro employees at respondent’s generating plant brought this action, pursuant to Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, challenging respondent’s requirement of a high school diploma or passing of intelligence tests as a condition of employment in or transfer to jobs at the plant. These requirements were not directed at or intended to measure ability to learn to perform a particular job or category of jobs. While 703 (a) of the Act makes it an unlawful employment practice for an employer to limit, segregate, or classify employees to deprive them of employment opportunities or adversely to affect their status because of race, color, religion, sex, or national origin, 703 (h) authorizes the use of any professionally developed ability test, provided that it is not designed, intended, or used to discriminate. The District Court found that respondent’s former policy of racial discrimination had ended, and that Title VII, being prospective only, did not reach the prior inequities. The Court of Appeals reversed in part, rejecting the holding that residual discrimination arising from prior practices was insulated from remedial action, but agreed with the lower court that there was no showing of discriminatory purpose in the adoption of the diploma and test requirements. It held that, absent such discriminatory purpose, use of the requirements was permitted, and rejected the claim that because a disproportionate number of Negroes was rendered ineligible for promotion, transfer, or employment, the requirements were unlawful unless shown to be job related. Held:

    1. The Act requires the elimination of artificial, arbitrary, and unnecessary barriers to employment that operate invidiously to discriminate on the basis of race, and, if, as here, an employment practice that operates to exclude Negroes cannot be shown to be related to job performance, it is prohibited, notwithstanding the employer’s lack of discriminatory intent. Pp. 429-433.
    2. The Act does not preclude the use of testing or measuring procedures, but it does proscribe giving them controlling force unless [401 U.S. 424, 425] they are demonstrably a reasonable measure of job performance. Pp. 433-436.
    420 F.2d 1225, reversed in part.
    BURGER, C. J., delivered the opinion of the Court, in which all members joined except BRENNAN, J., who took no part in the consideration or decision of the case.

    Jack Greenberg argued the cause for petitioners. With him on the briefs were James M. Nabrit III, Norman C. Amaker, William L. Robinson, Conrad O. Pearson, Julius LeVonne Chambers, and Albert J. Rosenthal.

    George W. Ferguson, Jr., argued the cause for respondent. With him on the brief were William I. Ward, Jr., and George M. Thorpe.

    Lawrence M. Cohen argued the cause for the Chamber of Commerce of the United States as amicus curiae urging affirmance. With him on the brief were Francis V. Lowden, Jr., Gerard C. Smetana, and Milton A. Smith.

    Briefs of amici curiae urging reversal were filed by Solicitor General Griswold, Assistant Attorney General Leonard, Deputy Solicitor General Wallace, David L. Rose, Stanley Hebert, and Russell Specter for the United States; by Louis J. Lefkowitz, Attorney General, pro se, Samuel A. Hirshowitz, First Assistant Attorney General, and George D. Zuckerman and Dominick J. Tuminaro, Assistant Attorneys General, for the Attorney General of the State of New York; and by Bernard Kleiman, Elliot Bredhoff, Michael H. Gottesman, and George H. Cohen for the United Steelworkers of America, AFL-CIO.

    MR. CHIEF JUSTICE BURGER delivered the opinion of the Court.

    We granted the writ in this case to resolve the question whether an employer is prohibited by the Civil Rights Act of 1964, Title VII, from requiring a high school education [401 U.S. 424, 426] or passing of a standardized general intelligence test as a condition of employment in or transfer to jobs when (a) neither standard is shown to be significantly related to successful job performance, (b) both requirements operate to disqualify Negroes at a substantially higher rate than white applicants, and (c) the jobs in question formerly had been filled only by white employees as part of a longstanding practice of giving preference to whites. 1

    Congress provided, in Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, for class actions for enforcement of provisions of the Act and this proceeding was brought by a group of incumbent Negro employees against Duke Power Company. All the petitioners are employed at the Company’s Dan River Steam Station, a power generating facility located at Draper, North Carolina. At the time this action was instituted, the Company had 95 employees at the Dan River Station, 14 of whom were Negroes; 13 of these are petitioners here.

    The District Court found that prior to July 2, 1965, the effective date of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, the [401 U.S. 424, 427] Company openly discriminated on the basis of race in the hiring and assigning of employees at its Dan River plant. The plant was organized into five operating departments: (1) Labor, (2) Coal Handling, (3) Operations, (4) Maintenance, and (5) Laboratory and Test. Negroes were employed only in the Labor Department where the highest paying jobs paid less than the lowest paying jobs in the other four “operating” departments in which only whites were employed. 2 Promotions were normally made within each department on the basis of job seniority. Transferees into a department usually began in the lowest position.

    In 1955 the Company instituted a policy of requiring a high school education for initial assignment to any department except Labor, and for transfer from the Coal Handling to any “inside” department (Operations, Maintenance, or Laboratory). When the Company abandoned its policy of restricting Negroes to the Labor Department in 1965, completion of high school also was made a prerequisite to transfer from Labor to any other department. From the time the high school requirement was instituted to the time of trial, however, white employees hired before the time of the high school education requirement continued to perform satisfactorily and achieve promotions in the “operating” departments. Findings on this score are not challenged.

    The Company added a further requirement for new employees on July 2, 1965, the date on which Title VII became effective. To qualify for placement in any but the Labor Department it became necessary to register satisfactory scores on two professionally prepared aptitude [401 U.S. 424, 428] tests, as well as to have a high school education. Completion of high school alone continued to render employees eligible for transfer to the four desirable departments from which Negroes had been excluded if the incumbent had been employed prior to the time of the new requirement. In September 1965 the Company began to permit incumbent employees who lacked a high school education to qualify for transfer from Labor or Coal Handling to an “inside” job by passing two tests – the Wonderlic Personnel Test, which purports to measure general intelligence, and the Bennett Mechanical Comprehension Test. Neither was directed or intended to measure the ability to learn to perform a particular job or category of jobs. The requisite scores used for both initial hiring and transfer approximated the national median for high school graduates. 3

    The District Court had found that while the Company previously followed a policy of overt racial discrimination in a period prior to the Act, such conduct had ceased. The District Court also concluded that Title VII was intended to be prospective only and, consequently, the impact of prior inequities was beyond the reach of corrective action authorized by the Act.

    The Court of Appeals was confronted with a question of first impression, as are we, concerning the meaning of Title VII. After careful analysis a majority of that court concluded that a subjective test of the employer’s intent should govern, particularly in a close case, and that in this case there was no showing of a discriminatory purpose in the adoption of the diploma and test requirements. On this basis, the Court of Appeals concluded there was no violation of the Act. [401 U.S. 424, 429]

    The Court of Appeals reversed the District Court in part, rejecting the holding that residual discrimination arising from prior employment practices was insulated from remedial action. 4 The Court of Appeals noted, however, that the District Court was correct in its conclusion that there was no showing of a racial purpose or invidious intent in the adoption of the high school diploma requirement or general intelligence test and that these standards had been applied fairly to whites and Negroes alike. It held that, in the absence of a discriminatory purpose, use of such requirements was permitted by the Act. In so doing, the Court of Appeals rejected the claim that because these two requirements operated to render ineligible a markedly disproportionate number of Negroes, they were unlawful under Title VII unless shown to be job related. 5 We granted the writ on these claims. 399 U.S. 926 .

    The objective of Congress in the enactment of Title VII is plain from the language of the statute. It was to achieve equality of employment opportunities and remove [401 U.S. 424, 430] barriers that have operated in the past to favor an identifiable group of white employees over other employees. Under the Act, practices, procedures, or tests neutral on their face, and even neutral in terms of intent, cannot be maintained if they operate to “freeze” the status quo of prior discriminatory employment practices.

    The Court of Appeals’ opinion, and the partial dissent, agreed that, on the record in the present case, “whites register far better on the Company’s alternative requirements” than Negroes. 6 420 F.2d 1225, 1239 n. 6. This consequence would appear to be directly traceable to race. Basic intelligence must have the means of articulation to manifest itself fairly in a testing process. Because they are Negroes, petitioners have long received inferior education in segregated schools and this Court expressly recognized these differences in Gaston County v. United States, 395 U.S. 285 (1969). There, because of the inferior education received by Negroes in North Carolina, this Court barred the institution of a literacy test for voter registration on the ground that the test would abridge the right to vote indirectly on account of race. Congress did not intend by Title VII, however, to guarantee a job to every person regardless of qualifications. In short, the Act does not command that any [401 U.S. 424, 431] person be hired simply because he was formerly the subject of discrimination, or because he is a member of a minority group. Discriminatory preference for any group, minority or majority, is precisely and only what Congress has proscribed. What is required by Congress is the removal of artificial, arbitrary, and unnecessary barriers to employment when the barriers operate invidiously to discriminate on the basis of racial or other impermissible classification.

    Congress has now provided that tests or criteria for employment or promotion may not provide equality of opportunity merely in the sense of the fabled offer of milk to the stork and the fox. On the contrary, Congress has now required that the posture and condition of the job-seeker be taken into account. It has – to resort again to the fable – provided that the vessel in which the milk is proffered be one all seekers can use. The Act proscribes not only overt discrimination but also practices that are fair in form, but discriminatory in operation. The touchstone is business necessity. If an employment practice which operates to exclude Negroes cannot be shown to be related to job performance, the practice is prohibited.

    On the record before us, neither the high school completion requirement nor the general intelligence test is shown to bear a demonstrable relationship to successful performance of the jobs for which it was used. Both were adopted, as the Court of Appeals noted, without meaningful study of their relationship to job-performance ability. Rather, a vice president of the Company testified, the requirements were instituted on the Company’s judgment that they generally would improve the overall quality of the work force.

    The evidence, however, shows that employees who have not completed high school or taken the tests have continued to perform satisfactorily and make progress in departments for which the high school and test criteria [401 U.S. 424, 432] are now used. 7 The promotion record of present employees who would not be able to meet the new criteria thus suggests the possibility that the requirements may not be needed even for the limited purpose of preserving the avowed policy of advancement within the Company. In the context of this case, it is unnecessary to reach the question whether testing requirements that take into account capability for the next succeeding position or related future promotion might be utilized upon a showing that such long-range requirements fulfill a genuine business need. In the present case the Company has made no such showing.

    The Court of Appeals held that the Company had adopted the diploma and test requirements without any “intention to discriminate against Negro employees.” 420 F.2d, at 1232. We do not suggest that either the District Court or the Court of Appeals erred in examining the employer’s intent; but good intent or absence of discriminatory intent does not redeem employment procedures or testing mechanisms that operate as “built-in headwinds” for minority groups and are unrelated to measuring job capability.

    The Company’s lack of discriminatory intent is suggested by special efforts to help the undereducated employees through Company financing of two-thirds the cost of tuition for high school training. But Congress directed the thrust of the Act to the consequences of employment practices, not simply the motivation. More than that, Congress has placed on the employer the burden of showing that any given requirement must have a manifest relationship to the employment in question. [401 U.S. 424, 433]

    The facts of this case demonstrate the inadequacy of broad and general testing devices as well as the infirmity of using diplomas or degrees as fixed measures of capability. History is filled with examples of men and women who rendered highly effective performance without the conventional badges of accomplishment in terms of certificates, diplomas, or degrees. Diplomas and tests are useful servants, but Congress has mandated the commonsense proposition that they are not to become masters of reality.

    The Company contends that its general intelligence tests are specifically permitted by 703 (h) of the Act. 8 That section authorizes the use of “any professionally developed ability test” that is not “designed, intended or used to discriminate because of race . . . .” (Emphasis added.)

    The Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, having enforcement responsibility, has issued guidelines interpreting 703 (h) to permit only the use of job-related tests. 9 The administrative interpretation of the [401 U.S. 424, 434] Act by the enforcing agency is entitled to great deference. See, e. g., United States v. City of Chicago, 400 U.S. 8 (1970); Udall v. Tallman, 380 U.S. 1 (1965); Power Reactor Co. v. Electricians, 367 U.S. 396 (1961). Since the Act and its legislative history support the Commission’s construction, this affords good reason to treat the guidelines as expressing the will of Congress.

    Section 703 (h) was not contained in the House version of the Civil Rights Act but was added in the Senate during extended debate. For a period, debate revolved around claims that the bill as proposed would prohibit all testing and force employers to hire unqualified persons simply because they were part of a group formerly subject to job discrimination. 10 Proponents of Title VII sought throughout the debate to assure the critics that the Act would have no effect on job-related tests. Senators Case of New Jersey and Clark of Pennsylvania, comanagers of the bill on the Senate floor, issued a memorandum explaining that the proposed Title VII “expressly protects the employer’s right to insist that any prospective applicant, Negro or white, must meet the applicable job qualifications. Indeed, the very purpose of title VII is to promote hiring on the basis of job qualifications, rather than on the basis of race or color.” 110 Cong. Rec. 7247. 11 (Emphasis added.) Despite [401 U.S. 424, 435] these assurances, Senator Tower of Texas introduced an amendment authorizing “professionally developed ability tests.” Proponents of Title VII opposed the amendment because, as written, it would permit an employer to give any test, “whether it was a good test or not, so long as it was professionally designed. Discrimination could actually exist under the guise of compliance with the statute.” 110 Cong. Rec. 13504 (remarks of Sen. Case).

    The amendment was defeated and two days later Senator Tower offered a substitute amendment which was adopted verbatim and is now the testing provision of 703 (h). Speaking for the supporters of Title VII, Senator Humphrey, who had vigorously opposed the first amendment, endorsed the substitute amendment, stating: “Senators on both sides of the aisle who were deeply interested in title VII have examined the text of this [401 U.S. 424, 436] amendment and have found it to be in accord with the intent and purpose of that title.” 110 Cong. Rec. 13724. The amendment was then adopted. 12 From the sum of the legislative history relevant in this case, the conclusion is inescapable that the EEOC’s construction of 703 (h) to require that employment tests be job related comports with congressional intent.

    Nothing in the Act precludes the use of testing or measuring procedures; obviously they are useful. What Congress has forbidden is giving these devices and mechanisms controlling force unless they are demonstrably a reasonable measure of job performance. Congress has not commanded that the less qualified be preferred over the better qualified simply because of minority origins. Far from disparaging job qualifications as such, Congress has made such qualifications the controlling factor, so that race, religion, nationality, and sex become irrelevant. What Congress has commanded is that any tests used must measure the person for the job and not the person in the abstract.

    The judgment of the Court of Appeals is, as to that portion of the judgment appealed from, reversed.

    MR. JUSTICE BRENNAN took no part in the consideration or decision of this case.

    Footnotes
    [ Footnote 1 ] The Act provides: “Sec. 703. (a) It shall be an unlawful employment practice for an employer – . . . . . “(2) to limit, segregate, or classify his employees in any way which would deprive or tend to deprive any individual of employment opportunities or otherwise adversely affect his status as an employee, because of such individual’s race, color, religion, sex, or national origin. . . . . . “(h) Notwithstanding any other provision of this title, it shall not be an unlawful employment practice for an employer . . . to give and to act upon the results of any professionally developed ability test provided that such test, its administration or action upon the results is not designed, intended or used to discriminate because of race, color, religion, sex or national origin. . . .” 78 Stat. 255, 42 U.S.C. 2000e-2.
    [ Footnote 2 ] A Negro was first assigned to a job in an operating department in August 1966, five months after charges had been filed with the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission. The employee, a high school graduate who had begun in the Labor Department in 1953, was promoted to a job in the Coal Handling Department.

    [ Footnote 3 ] The test standards are thus more stringent than the high school requirement, since they would screen out approximately half of all high school graduates.

    [ Footnote 4 ] The Court of Appeals ruled that Negroes employed in the Labor Department at a time when there was no high school or test requirement for entrance into the higher paying departments could not now be made subject to those requirements, since whites hired contemporaneously into those departments were never subject to them. The Court of Appeals also required that the seniority rights of those Negroes be measured on a plantwide, rather than a departmental, basis. However, the Court of Appeals denied relief to the Negro employees without a high school education or its equivalent who were hired into the Labor Department after institution of the educational requirement.

    [ Footnote 5 ] One member of that court disagreed with this aspect of the decision, maintaining, as do the petitioners in this Court, that Title VII prohibits the use of employment criteria that operate in a racially exclusionary fashion and do not measure skills or abilities necessary to performance of the jobs for which those criteria are used.

    [ Footnote 6 ] In North Carolina, 1960 census statistics show that, while 34% of white males had completed high school, only 12% of Negro males had done so. U.S. Bureau of the Census, U.S. Census of Population: 1960, Vol. 1, Characteristics of the Population, pt. 35, Table 47. Similarly, with respect to standardized tests, the EEOC in one case found that use of a battery of tests, including the Wonderlic and Bennett tests used by the Company in the instant case, resulted in 58% of whites passing the tests, as compared with only 6% of the blacks. Decision of EEOC, CCH Empl. Prac. Guide, § 17,304.53 (Dec. 2, 1966). See also Decision of EEOC 70-552, CCH Empl. Prac. Guide, § 6139 (Feb. 19, 1970).

    [ Footnote 7 ] For example, between July 2, 1965, and November 14, 1966, the percentage of white employees who were promoted but who were not high school graduates was nearly identical to the percentage of nongraduates in the entire white work force.

    [ Footnote 8 ] Section 703 (h) applies only to tests. It has no applicability to the high school diploma requirement.

    [ Footnote 9 ] EEOC Guidelines on Employment Testing Procedures, issued August 24, 1966, provide: “The Commission accordingly interprets `professionally developed ability test’ to mean a test which fairly measures the knowledge or skills required by the particular job or class of jobs which the applicant seeks, or which fairly affords the employer a chance to measure the applicant’s ability to perform a particular job or class of jobs. The fact that a test was prepared by an individual or organization claiming expertise in test preparation does not, without more, justify its use within the meaning of Title VII.” The EEOC position has been elaborated in the new Guidelines on Employee Selection Procedures, 29 CFR 1607, 35 Fed. Reg. 12333 (Aug. 1, 1970). These guidelines demand that employers using tests have available “date demonstrating that the test is predictive of or significantly correlated with important elements of work behavior which comprise or are relevant to the job or jobs for which candidates are being evaluated.” Id., at 1607.4 (c).

    [ Footnote 10 ] The congressional discussion was prompted by the decision of a hearing examiner for the Illinois Fair Employment Commission in Myart v. Motorola Co. (The decision is reprinted at 110 Cong. Rec. 5662.) That case suggested that standardized tests on which whites performed better than Negroes could never be used. The decision was taken to mean that such tests could never be justified even if the needs of the business required them. A number of Senators feared that Title VII might produce a similar result. See remarks of Senators Ervin, 110 Cong. Rec. 5614-5616; Smathers, id., at 5999-6000; Holland, id., at 7012-7013; Hill, id., at 8447; Tower, id., at 9024; Talmadge, id., at 9025-9026; Fulbright, id., at 9599-9600; and Ellender, id., at 9600.

    [ Footnote 11 ] The Court of Appeals majority, in finding no requirement in Title VII that employment tests be job related, relied in part on a [401 U.S. 424, 435] quotation from an earlier Clark-Case interpretative memorandum addressed to the question of the constitutionality of Title VII. The Senators said in that memorandum: “There is no requirement in title VII that employers abandon bona fide qualification tests where, because of differences in background and education, members of some groups are able to perform better on these tests than members of other groups. An employer may set his qualifications as high as he likes, he may test to determine which applicants have these qualifications, and he may hire, assign, and promote on the basis of test performance.” 110 Cong. Rec. 7213. However, nothing there stated conflicts with the later memorandum dealing specifically with the debate over employer testing, 110 Cong. Rec. 7247 (quoted from in the text above), in which Senators Clark and Case explained that tests which measure “applicable job qualifications” are permissible under Title VII. In the earlier memorandum Clark and Case assured the Senate that employers were not to be prohibited from using tests that determine qualifications. Certainly a reasonable interpretation of what the Senators meant, in light of the subsequent memorandum directed specifically at employer testing, was that nothing in the Act prevents employers from requiring that applicants be fit for the job.

    [ Footnote 12 ] Senator Tower’s original amendment provided in part that a test would be permissible “if . . . in the case of any individual who is seeking employment with such employer, such test is designed to determine or predict whether such individual is suitable or trainable with respect to his employment in the particular business or enterprise involved . . . .” 110 Cong. Rec. 13492. This language indicates that Senator Tower’s aim was simply to make certain that job-related tests would be permitted. The opposition to the amendment was based on its loose wording which the proponents of Title VII feared would be susceptible of misinterpretation. The final amendment, which was acceptable to all sides, could hardly have required less of a job relation than the first. [401 U.S. 424, 437]

  369. @Anon

    sais tests had nothing to with job performance —-

    the standard was random, so not applicable to ability to do said tasks for work

    In other-words, blacks had to meet the work related standards . . .

    https://brainmass.com/psychology/cognitive-symptom-and-personality-tests/griggs-versus-duke-powers-company-618252

    One wonders when this kind of tactic bending truth to suit a incorrect conclusion deliberately will cease.

    good grief

  370. @Anon

    The Weber case did not lower standards. it simply said affirmative action policies could be used and there was no demand to lower standards — it was the company that made the choice to bypass seniority as a standard —

    nor was this a case in which blacks lobbied for lower standards — again you might want to actually read the material before applying it evidence for the case you are advancing.

    nor was about quotas

  371. @Anon

    excuse the delay i just saw your comments this morning.

    No deliberate intentional or unintentional disrespect intended.

  372. Avalanche says:
    @j

    Do you know what we call the absolute bottom/last graduate in a class of 500 doctors from med school? We call him DOCTOR! If your “The dumb scientist do little actual harm, because they are dumb per definition, and they are politely distanced from positions where they could do actual harm,” were even SLIGHTLY true — then you best take your children to a black doctor who *could not be failed* no matter how poorly that ‘student’ did on tests or learning.

    And if your ‘dumb scientist’ (an oxymoron if ever there was!) is HIRED, then that waste-of-space cannot be politely distanced — and an actual scientist who could ACTUALLY do science will not be hired. (Try to get a job as a White scientist today! Or even get into a STEM school!)

  373. Saxon says:
    @Joe862

    It’s almost certain that they’re not testing a proper cross-section of their population and that it’s only specific elite regions which reach ~106 or higher. Yes, they aren’t as prosperous as the South Koreans and Japanese but both of them had western stewardship in building up to where they are now and there could also be behavioral biology differences that contribute to this. China just seems like it has a shit ton of corruption to the point where people in Hong Kong really actually miss being governed by relatively incorruptible English governors. Japan doesn’t really seem to have this kind of problem to anywhere near this extent and there’s just a difference in how those people act in comparison to each other.

Current Commenter
says:

Leave a Reply - Comments on articles more than two weeks old will be judged much more strictly on quality and tone


 Remember My InformationWhy?
 Email Replies to my Comment
Submitted comments become the property of The Unz Review and may be republished elsewhere at the sole discretion of the latter
Subscribe to This Comment Thread via RSS Subscribe to All Fred Reed Comments via RSS
Personal Classics
Not What Tom Jefferson Had in Mind
Sounds Like A Low-Ranked American University To Me
Very Long, Will Bore Hell Out Of Most People, But I Felt Like Doing It
It's Not A Job. It's An Adventure.
Cloudy, With Possible Tidal Wave