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    Here the long-awaited results. Pretty much as expected, with no major surprises. About 2/3rds Black, 1/4 White, 1/12th Asian. The only unexpected things are in my Asian ancestry. Apparently, contrary to what I have been told, I have no South Asian ancestry. Also, of my East Asian ancestry, half appears to be Southeast Asian, rather...
  • Do they always clump British and Irish together? Can they separate that? My folks are from the West Coast of Ireland. I would be about 99.99 percent “British and Irish.” Duh.

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  • @attilathehen
    He didn't need the test. He looks and knows he's black. He might have thought the results would be all white. Wishful thinking and a waste of money.

    He didn’t need the test. He looks and knows he’s black. He might have thought the results would be all white. Wishful thinking and a waste of money.

    OTOH, I hear 23&Me likes to report POC heritage when there is none just to mess with people…

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  • Notwithstanding small allowances for possible mixed-race pairings in your ancestry prior to roughly the Napoleonic era, and for consanguinity, the most parsimonious explanation would seem to be that of your 128 great-great-great-great-great grandparents, visibly 88 were African black, 30 NW European, 5 SE Asian and 5 Chinese.

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  • @Jim Christian
    https://squawker.org/culture-wars/dna-testing-companies-like-23andme-admit-adding-fake-african-ancestry-to-white-profiles-in-order-to-screw-with-racists/

    Which racists ,Blacks or Latinos

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  • I seriously doubt these tests are in any way accurate.

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  • Just a tidbit to add. My daughter sent saliva samples to both 23&me and Ancestry.com. The results, surprisingly, at least to me, where within .7% of each other.

    In addition, 23&me correctly suggested/identified many relatives out to third cousins.

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  • My test came back showing 99.7% Scotch/Irish . My family has been in America since the mid 1800′s and we were told by my Grandmothers when questioning them about our ethnic heritage that we were German and American Indian . We grew up eating scrumptious German cooking . We were also warned when inquiring about our ancestors to beware because we might find out some things we did not want to know . I am not really sure I trust the modern technologies but I do see the application in the end times scenario ie: Revelations 9

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  • @Almost Missouri
    Hmm ... I thought you pretty much have to get half from each parent, and that it is the grandparents' genomes that can--and do--vary considerably.

    I mean, you get one half of each pair of 23 chromosomes from each parent, so each parent ought always to be 50% of your genome. But since your parents do not necessarily give you 50% of each of their parents' genome--indeed, since 23 is not evenly divisible by 4, they cannot give you 50% of each of their parents' genomes--you can end up with wildly disproportionate share any of your grandparents' genomes.

    Perhaps unconscious awareness of this has something to do with why grandparents can sometimes take wildly disproportionate interests in different grandchildren.

    Yup, you’re 50% related to each parent, but not 25% related to each grandparent (and not 12.5% related to each great grandparent and so on). Just the same, you’re not 50% related to each sibling.

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  • @Jim Christian
    https://squawker.org/culture-wars/dna-testing-companies-like-23andme-admit-adding-fake-african-ancestry-to-white-profiles-in-order-to-screw-with-racists/

    So in this case they went a bit overboard?

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  • @RadicalCenter
    Interesting, thank you.

    Realizing, of course, that her grandfather easily could have been much less than half Kalmyk or much more than half. As you probably know, we don’t necessarily inherit such predictable percentages of genes “proportionately” from each race or ethnicity.

    For example, my Mom’s genetic tests reported that she is more than 10% “Middle Eastern” (Arab / Sephardic Jew) and several percent Ashkenazi (aka “european Jewish”). But my tests showed 0-1% Middle Eastern and only 1% Ashkenazi Jewish. I apparently inherited a “disproportionately” high share of her Italian genes and almost none of her non-Italian genes.

    Hmm … I thought you pretty much have to get half from each parent, and that it is the grandparents’ genomes that can–and do–vary considerably.

    I mean, you get one half of each pair of 23 chromosomes from each parent, so each parent ought always to be 50% of your genome. But since your parents do not necessarily give you 50% of each of their parents’ genome–indeed, since 23 is not evenly divisible by 4, they cannot give you 50% of each of their parents’ genomes–you can end up with wildly disproportionate share any of your grandparents’ genomes.

    Perhaps unconscious awareness of this has something to do with why grandparents can sometimes take wildly disproportionate interests in different grandchildren.

    Read More
    • Replies: @JayMan
    Yup, you're 50% related to each parent, but not 25% related to each grandparent (and not 12.5% related to each great grandparent and so on). Just the same, you're not 50% related to each sibling.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @AP
    My wife is 1/8 Kalmyk, and the Asian features are obvious (all non-Asians ancestors have been blonde blue-eyed ethnic Poles or ethnic Russians, she has dark eyes and thick straight black "Asian" hair like her 1/4 Kalmyk father and his 1/2 Kalmyk farther), yet 23andme has her as 99.8% European, .2% Mongolian. 23andme probably considers Kalmyks and other obscure Eurasian peoples as Eastern European.

    Interesting, thank you.

    Realizing, of course, that her grandfather easily could have been much less than half Kalmyk or much more than half. As you probably know, we don’t necessarily inherit such predictable percentages of genes “proportionately” from each race or ethnicity.

    For example, my Mom’s genetic tests reported that she is more than 10% “Middle Eastern” (Arab / Sephardic Jew) and several percent Ashkenazi (aka “european Jewish”). But my tests showed 0-1% Middle Eastern and only 1% Ashkenazi Jewish. I apparently inherited a “disproportionately” high share of her Italian genes and almost none of her non-Italian genes.

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    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    Hmm ... I thought you pretty much have to get half from each parent, and that it is the grandparents' genomes that can--and do--vary considerably.

    I mean, you get one half of each pair of 23 chromosomes from each parent, so each parent ought always to be 50% of your genome. But since your parents do not necessarily give you 50% of each of their parents' genome--indeed, since 23 is not evenly divisible by 4, they cannot give you 50% of each of their parents' genomes--you can end up with wildly disproportionate share any of your grandparents' genomes.

    Perhaps unconscious awareness of this has something to do with why grandparents can sometimes take wildly disproportionate interests in different grandchildren.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Dutch Boy
    The only anomaly I found in my 23&me results was that I was 25% British/Irish (my Dutch and Norwegian ancestors would be surprised). The only thing I could figure was that I had some of my British/Irish wife's spit in my mouth when I took the sample.

    Um, no, dude, the explanation is simply that you’re British and Irish.
    Swish with water and take another saliva test, and then you’ll have to admit it ;)

    From genetic tests, I was likewise surprised that this I likely have a little bit of British genes (5%) and 10% Scandinavian.

    Well, guess I’m just your “typical” Italian/Slavic/Swedish/Caucasian/English all-American White mutt ;)

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  • @attilathehen
    He didn't need the test. He looks and knows he's black. He might have thought the results would be all white. Wishful thinking and a waste of money.

    I’ve never had the fortune to see a full photo of Jayman let alone meet him but the limited pictures of his arm and children gave me the impression he was mixed race with some black ancestry. Of the West Indians I’ve got to know I think all those who – to me – looked entirely West African had significant admixture, particularly South Indian. I’d never have guessed before seeing family photos.

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  • @Anatoly Karlin
    I think 23andme is confused by DICh (Dagestan/Ingushetia/Chechnya) and classifies them as a strange Balkan/Middle Eastern/Broad Southern European melange.

    For instance, me (I'm 1/4 Lak, that's Dagestan).

    Which OTOH is pretty strange, since contrary to my expectations, I recall Razib Khan telling me in a conversation that there is a lot of population genetics data from North Caucasians.

    My wife is 1/8 Kalmyk, and the Asian features are obvious (all non-Asians ancestors have been blonde blue-eyed ethnic Poles or ethnic Russians, she has dark eyes and thick straight black “Asian” hair like her 1/4 Kalmyk father and his 1/2 Kalmyk farther), yet 23andme has her as 99.8% European, .2% Mongolian. 23andme probably considers Kalmyks and other obscure Eurasian peoples as Eastern European.

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    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    Interesting, thank you.

    Realizing, of course, that her grandfather easily could have been much less than half Kalmyk or much more than half. As you probably know, we don’t necessarily inherit such predictable percentages of genes “proportionately” from each race or ethnicity.

    For example, my Mom’s genetic tests reported that she is more than 10% “Middle Eastern” (Arab / Sephardic Jew) and several percent Ashkenazi (aka “european Jewish”). But my tests showed 0-1% Middle Eastern and only 1% Ashkenazi Jewish. I apparently inherited a “disproportionately” high share of her Italian genes and almost none of her non-Italian genes.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • The only anomaly I found in my 23&me results was that I was 25% British/Irish (my Dutch and Norwegian ancestors would be surprised). The only thing I could figure was that I had some of my British/Irish wife’s spit in my mouth when I took the sample.

    Read More
    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    Um, no, dude, the explanation is simply that you’re British and Irish.
    Swish with water and take another saliva test, and then you’ll have to admit it ;)

    From genetic tests, I was likewise surprised that this I likely have a little bit of British genes (5%) and 10% Scandinavian.

    Well, guess I’m just your “typical” Italian/Slavic/Swedish/Caucasian/English all-American White mutt ;)
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Jay Ritchie
    Many thanks for that - I had wondered if you would do a 23andme test!

    Never thank an exhibitionist. They don’t need the encouragement.

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  • @attilathehen
    He didn't need the test. He looks and knows he's black. He might have thought the results would be all white. Wishful thinking and a waste of money.

    23andMe gives more than just ancestry (e.g. health prognosis), which might be useful too.

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    • Agree: RadicalCenter
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  • @attilathehen
    He didn't need the test. He looks and knows he's black. He might have thought the results would be all white. Wishful thinking and a waste of money.

    Aren’t you Middle Eastern? Middle Easterners have black ancestry.

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  • @Jay Ritchie
    Many thanks for that - I had wondered if you would do a 23andme test!

    He didn’t need the test. He looks and knows he’s black. He might have thought the results would be all white. Wishful thinking and a waste of money.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Aren't you Middle Eastern? Middle Easterners have black ancestry.
    , @Alliumnsk
    23andMe gives more than just ancestry (e.g. health prognosis), which might be useful too.
    , @Jay Ritchie
    I've never had the fortune to see a full photo of Jayman let alone meet him but the limited pictures of his arm and children gave me the impression he was mixed race with some black ancestry. Of the West Indians I've got to know I think all those who - to me - looked entirely West African had significant admixture, particularly South Indian. I'd never have guessed before seeing family photos.
    , @GourmetDan

    He didn’t need the test. He looks and knows he’s black. He might have thought the results would be all white. Wishful thinking and a waste of money.
     
    OTOH, I hear 23&Me likes to report POC heritage when there is none just to mess with people...
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  • Thanks for sharing your results. I’ve thought about doing one of the tests, but they’ve had some problem with accuracy, I’ve heard. This involved inconsistent results with different groups of identical triplets. When they get those issues addressed, I might take a test.

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  • JayMan needs to make sure his children marry Latinos to tick off all the boxes and become a progenitor of the coming cosmic race.

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  • @RadicalCenter
    Politics aside, I find this stuff interesting and appreciate you publishing such personal information.

    My 23andme and ancestry.com confirmed some of what we expected, but there were certainly surprises. Came back with appreciable Scandinavian and English genes, which was totally unexpected.

    Also came back with some Caucasus genes, which that particular company says appear in Azerbaijan, Turkey, Armenia, Georgia, Iran, Iraq, and Syria. My best friend now jokes that my "Chechen heritage" accounts for my occasionally less-than-placid personality (even though the company doesn't mention Chechnya, Dagestan, or Ingushetia as part of its "Caucasus" grouping ;)

    I think 23andme is confused by DICh (Dagestan/Ingushetia/Chechnya) and classifies them as a strange Balkan/Middle Eastern/Broad Southern European melange.

    For instance, me (I’m 1/4 Lak, that’s Dagestan).

    Which OTOH is pretty strange, since contrary to my expectations, I recall Razib Khan telling me in a conversation that there is a lot of population genetics data from North Caucasians.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AP
    My wife is 1/8 Kalmyk, and the Asian features are obvious (all non-Asians ancestors have been blonde blue-eyed ethnic Poles or ethnic Russians, she has dark eyes and thick straight black "Asian" hair like her 1/4 Kalmyk father and his 1/2 Kalmyk farther), yet 23andme has her as 99.8% European, .2% Mongolian. 23andme probably considers Kalmyks and other obscure Eurasian peoples as Eastern European.
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  • Good stuff! Very interesting…..

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  • Many thanks for that – I had wondered if you would do a 23andme test!

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    • Replies: @attilathehen
    He didn't need the test. He looks and knows he's black. He might have thought the results would be all white. Wishful thinking and a waste of money.
    , @Henry's Cat
    Never thank an exhibitionist. They don't need the encouragement.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Politics aside, I find this stuff interesting and appreciate you publishing such personal information.

    My 23andme and ancestry.com confirmed some of what we expected, but there were certainly surprises. Came back with appreciable Scandinavian and English genes, which was totally unexpected.

    Also came back with some Caucasus genes, which that particular company says appear in Azerbaijan, Turkey, Armenia, Georgia, Iran, Iraq, and Syria. My best friend now jokes that my “Chechen heritage” accounts for my occasionally less-than-placid personality (even though the company doesn’t mention Chechnya, Dagestan, or Ingushetia as part of its “Caucasus” grouping ;)

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    I think 23andme is confused by DICh (Dagestan/Ingushetia/Chechnya) and classifies them as a strange Balkan/Middle Eastern/Broad Southern European melange.

    For instance, me (I'm 1/4 Lak, that's Dagestan).

    Which OTOH is pretty strange, since contrary to my expectations, I recall Razib Khan telling me in a conversation that there is a lot of population genetics data from North Caucasians.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Throughout my American Nations series (based on the books American Nations: A History of the Eleven Rival Regional Cultures of North America by Colin Woodard and Albion's Seed: Four British Folkways in America by David Hackett Fischer) I've talked about how North America is divided into distinct ethnocultural regions based on historic settlement patterns. These...
  • @Thomm
    It’s wrong and has to be stopped.

    So buying something at market price, while following all the laws, is wrong?

    This type of left-wing economic obstruction is ignorant. They have every right to buy these properties, doubly so if we are talking about 2nd gen, US born Asian Americans.

    If you aren't talented enough to earn the money to buy a house... well, guess what? You are the new negro..

    P.S. I’m not saying that I wouldn’t do it too, as the foreigner, if the foolish Americans allowed me. I’m saying it’s wrong FOR AMERICANS, which should be the number one determinant of our government’s laws and policies (ha).

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  • @Thomm
    This is about to change very soon, as a lot of the English Americans are older boomers, and Mexicans are drifting from the SouthWest into the Deep South. Many blacks are leaving Chicago and Detroit to return to Atlanta.

    Sadly, even the Deep South and the Great Plains are becoming substantially more Mexican.

    You’re right that the process is likely to accelerate as English-Americans and other white Americans have a higher average age than Mexicans in the USA — and, to exacerbate the problem, the English-American and other white Americans’ kids typically have a lower fertility rate than Mexicans in the USA as well (excepting the Mormons and the Amish, God bless them).

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  • @Art
    Political views are heritable with little effect of rearing or local environment.

    That is ridiculous – I have changed political sides in a day’s time – and then later changed back - and then changed back again.

    I assure that my genes did not change in a day.

    Peace --- Art

    But Art, you didn’t change your fundamental philosophy, values, priorities, or goals, in that time, right? You presumably changed your mind about how to implement that philosophy, advance those priorities, or achieve those goals better, faster, cheaper, with benefit to more people, etc.

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  • @kek
    I see some white guilt-ed zombies on college campuses are now wearing patches and badges to signify their race and tell other races how shameful they are to be privileged with so much including a higher IQ. Maybe soon they can have numbers tattooed on their forearms and march off to concentration camps to really make amends .

    At least it will help our kids know who to stay away from as potential friends or boy-girlfriends. See the self-hating patch or badge, move along quickly to someone else.

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  • @JayMan

    He should write about racial degeneracy from miscegenation.
     
    I have wrote about the degeneracy of White Nationalism:

    The Problem with HBD, the Dark Enlightenment, Neoreaction, Alt-Rightism, and All That Jazz

    Yes, but have you WRITTEN about it? Seriously, I enjoy your writing.

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  • @dc.sunsets
    As a reformed libertarian, I agree with you.

    There's a damn good reason Mexico has laws preventing foreigners from flying in and buying up all the prime real estate.

    America's love affair with global "capitalism" will come to a screeching halt when the trillions of dollars in IOU's exported under Dollar Hegemony come flooding back from Japan, China, et.al., and almost literally buy the continent of North America right out from under their feet.

    These past 50 years will someday occupy many scholars' lifetimes in study and debate, so astonishingly daffy were things that came to be seen as normal.

    The first among many is that things that make sense in a community of like people who share a common geography, culture and language can scale up to the "global" community (which is nothing of the sort.)

    As an aside, "scale down" explanations appear to work for me; "scale up" theories are often dangerously wrong, however.

    Reformed libertarian here as well, DCS.

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  • @Thomm
    Minnesota even resembles Scandinavia.

    As it should. This 'layering' of new people (as long as they are well-behaved and productive) is very fascinating and uniquely American in character.

    That is why the West Coast is so interesting. It has very few blacks, and only became part of America a decade before slavery ended anyway. But California is 14% Asian and since Asians have higher incomes than whites, they are the upper class. This is a very different dynamic and the old East Coast cannot relate.

    I’m from the East Coast and my wife is Asian. There is a disproportionately Asian upper class developing where I’m from, too, though not as drastically as in California, and you’re right that the difference was noticeable when we moved out here.

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  • @Thomm
    It’s wrong and has to be stopped.

    So buying something at market price, while following all the laws, is wrong?

    This type of left-wing economic obstruction is ignorant. They have every right to buy these properties, doubly so if we are talking about 2nd gen, US born Asian Americans.

    If you aren't talented enough to earn the money to buy a house... well, guess what? You are the new negro..

    I already own real estate, Thomm, just not in CA, and will likely be buying a home here in time as well.

    Someone who cannot readily afford a house suitable for a family of six people or so in the LA area — in a safe neighborhood with good schools and without a life-killing family-killing commute — is “the new negro” and “isn’t talented enough”? You need to spend more time here and meet some of the people who don’t appreciate competing with the top half a percent of the 2.6 billion people in China & India, which is disproportionately who is buying and renting in many locations, and driving prices up for the rest of us further than they would be already.

    Let’s put it this way, if you earn more than I do, then you are in the top 4-5% of individuals in the USA. Doesn’t sound like a lack of talent or marketable skills, Thomm.

    As for “left-wing” economic obstruction — great jargon, by the way — calling something left-wing doesn’t constitute an argument. Nor do I see many “left-wing” people giving a damn about the effect of out-of-control legal and illegal immigration on housing prices for Americans whose families have been here, staying out of trouble with the law, and working hard for generations (primarily European-Americans, though of course not entirely).

    As for those hypothetical second-generation Asian-Americans, a sounder policy would not have allowed their parents / grandparents into this country in the first place (except, of course, welcoming them temporarily for business, study, or tourism). Moreover, focusing on US-citizen purchasers from foreign backgrounds misses much of the picture. There are plenty of non-citizen foreigners, whether permanent residents or non-residents, who have been snapping up residential property here and elsewhere esp. along the West Coast. Some are our acquaintances and neighbors.

    You seem to mock fellow Americans who have trouble affording suitable family housing, or who resent the degree to which that cost is driven up by many millions of people who SHOULD. NOT. BE. HERE. Mock away, Thomm, tho I wouldn’t advise you to call me and mine “negros” in person if you stop by for a visit, big guy ;)

    It’s not “left-wing”, Thomm, to recognize that plenty of people can’t afford suitable housing at a halfway-reasonable price near enough to their jobs in places like LA and SF, and it isn’t because of lack of talent, lack of effort, and whatever other character defects you are arrogantly painting on us with a broad brush.

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  • @Mr Darcy
    Yes, it is the enormous number of "non-Tidewater" folk now living in the Tidewater (as employees of Uncle Scam in and around DC). They are outliers, but they now outnumber the real Tidewater population. This same thing is happening quicker and quicker now to the Deep South, too, as Yankee snowbirds invade and colonize for their retirement in a good climate. It promises even more--and deeper--divisions in society. In 1861, these nations were geographical. Next time, they won't be.

    The so-called Yankee snowbirds are dwarfed in number and negative political/social effects by the MILLIONS of Haitians, Puerto Ricans, Latin Americans, and Third Worlders that have settled in Florida.

    Compare a thousand Northern white Americans who retire to Florida, with a thousand foreign immigrants to Florida. Which group is more fiscally conservative or politically moderate/conservative? Which group is on balance more patriotic, more loyal to America and our traditional culture, language, rule of law, mores? Which group is more willing to help other actual core Americans?

    I know many people who have retired to FL from the “Tri-State Area” — NY, NJ, CT — and definitely are NOT politically left or white-hating / Western-culture-hating (“multicultural”).

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  • @Norman Bates
    I am German-American and the "Yankee" imprint upon the Northern Midwest was wiped out by waves of Central and Eastern Europeans.

    Minnesota even resembles Scandinavia.

    Minnesota even resembles Scandinavia.

    As it should. This ‘layering’ of new people (as long as they are well-behaved and productive) is very fascinating and uniquely American in character.

    That is why the West Coast is so interesting. It has very few blacks, and only became part of America a decade before slavery ended anyway. But California is 14% Asian and since Asians have higher incomes than whites, they are the upper class. This is a very different dynamic and the old East Coast cannot relate.

    Read More
    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    I'm from the East Coast and my wife is Asian. There is a disproportionately Asian upper class developing where I'm from, too, though not as drastically as in California, and you're right that the difference was noticeable when we moved out here.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @RadicalCenter
    Excellent point about America being bought out from under our feet.

    Many Americans who work hard and have good-paying jobs still cannot realistically afford much of the housing here in Los Angeles area, and not just downtown or near the ocean. Same with San Francisco.

    In both cases, wealthy Chinese immigrants, and sometimes their "American-born" descendants, are bidding apartments and condos and houses alike to levels that are beyond our reach even with careful budgeting and saving. It's wrong and has to be stopped.

    It’s wrong and has to be stopped.

    So buying something at market price, while following all the laws, is wrong?

    This type of left-wing economic obstruction is ignorant. They have every right to buy these properties, doubly so if we are talking about 2nd gen, US born Asian Americans.

    If you aren’t talented enough to earn the money to buy a house… well, guess what? You are the new negro..

    Read More
    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    I already own real estate, Thomm, just not in CA, and will likely be buying a home here in time as well.

    Someone who cannot readily afford a house suitable for a family of six people or so in the LA area -- in a safe neighborhood with good schools and without a life-killing family-killing commute -- is "the new negro" and "isn't talented enough"? You need to spend more time here and meet some of the people who don't appreciate competing with the top half a percent of the 2.6 billion people in China & India, which is disproportionately who is buying and renting in many locations, and driving prices up for the rest of us further than they would be already.

    Let's put it this way, if you earn more than I do, then you are in the top 4-5% of individuals in the USA. Doesn't sound like a lack of talent or marketable skills, Thomm.

    As for "left-wing" economic obstruction -- great jargon, by the way -- calling something left-wing doesn't constitute an argument. Nor do I see many "left-wing" people giving a damn about the effect of out-of-control legal and illegal immigration on housing prices for Americans whose families have been here, staying out of trouble with the law, and working hard for generations (primarily European-Americans, though of course not entirely).

    As for those hypothetical second-generation Asian-Americans, a sounder policy would not have allowed their parents / grandparents into this country in the first place (except, of course, welcoming them temporarily for business, study, or tourism). Moreover, focusing on US-citizen purchasers from foreign backgrounds misses much of the picture. There are plenty of non-citizen foreigners, whether permanent residents or non-residents, who have been snapping up residential property here and elsewhere esp. along the West Coast. Some are our acquaintances and neighbors.

    You seem to mock fellow Americans who have trouble affording suitable family housing, or who resent the degree to which that cost is driven up by many millions of people who SHOULD. NOT. BE. HERE. Mock away, Thomm, tho I wouldn't advise you to call me and mine "negros" in person if you stop by for a visit, big guy ;)

    It's not "left-wing", Thomm, to recognize that plenty of people can't afford suitable housing at a halfway-reasonable price near enough to their jobs in places like LA and SF, and it isn't because of lack of talent, lack of effort, and whatever other character defects you are arrogantly painting on us with a broad brush.

    , @RadicalCenter
    P.S. I'm not saying that I wouldn't do it too, as the foreigner, if the foolish Americans allowed me. I'm saying it's wrong FOR AMERICANS, which should be the number one determinant of our government's laws and policies (ha).
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Anonymous

    This is especially true in the nations of the American South, where the colonial settlers received less subsequent migration and the original stock remains strong.
     
    Good point. The South seems to be the only original nation that still persists in a meaningful sense. You mostly encounter whites with British surnames and wholly or mostly British ancestry in the South or among Southern transplants. In most of the rest of the country, whites with British surnames and wholly or mostly British ancestry are much less common.

    This is about to change very soon, as a lot of the English Americans are older boomers, and Mexicans are drifting from the SouthWest into the Deep South. Many blacks are leaving Chicago and Detroit to return to Atlanta.

    Read More
    • Agree: RadicalCenter
    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    Sadly, even the Deep South and the Great Plains are becoming substantially more Mexican.

    You're right that the process is likely to accelerate as English-Americans and other white Americans have a higher average age than Mexicans in the USA -- and, to exacerbate the problem, the English-American and other white Americans' kids typically have a lower fertility rate than Mexicans in the USA as well (excepting the Mormons and the Amish, God bless them).

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Some populations are more adapted to vegetarianism than others. Kothapalli, Kumar et al. - 2016 - Positive selection on a regulatory insertion-deletion polymorphism in FADS2 influences apparent endogenous synthesis of arachidonic acid: Long chain polyunsaturated fatty acids (LCPUFA) are bioactive components of membrane phospholipids and serve as substrates for signaling molecules. LCPUFA can be obtained...
  • Throughout my American Nations series (based on the books American Nations: A History of the Eleven Rival Regional Cultures of North America by Colin Woodard and Albion's Seed: Four British Folkways in America by David Hackett Fischer) I've talked about how North America is divided into distinct ethnocultural regions based on historic settlement patterns. These...
  • I am German-American and the “Yankee” imprint upon the Northern Midwest was wiped out by waves of Central and Eastern Europeans.

    Minnesota even resembles Scandinavia.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Thomm
    Minnesota even resembles Scandinavia.

    As it should. This 'layering' of new people (as long as they are well-behaved and productive) is very fascinating and uniquely American in character.

    That is why the West Coast is so interesting. It has very few blacks, and only became part of America a decade before slavery ended anyway. But California is 14% Asian and since Asians have higher incomes than whites, they are the upper class. This is a very different dynamic and the old East Coast cannot relate.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @dc.sunsets
    As a reformed libertarian, I agree with you.

    There's a damn good reason Mexico has laws preventing foreigners from flying in and buying up all the prime real estate.

    America's love affair with global "capitalism" will come to a screeching halt when the trillions of dollars in IOU's exported under Dollar Hegemony come flooding back from Japan, China, et.al., and almost literally buy the continent of North America right out from under their feet.

    These past 50 years will someday occupy many scholars' lifetimes in study and debate, so astonishingly daffy were things that came to be seen as normal.

    The first among many is that things that make sense in a community of like people who share a common geography, culture and language can scale up to the "global" community (which is nothing of the sort.)

    As an aside, "scale down" explanations appear to work for me; "scale up" theories are often dangerously wrong, however.

    Excellent point about America being bought out from under our feet.

    Many Americans who work hard and have good-paying jobs still cannot realistically afford much of the housing here in Los Angeles area, and not just downtown or near the ocean. Same with San Francisco.

    In both cases, wealthy Chinese immigrants, and sometimes their “American-born” descendants, are bidding apartments and condos and houses alike to levels that are beyond our reach even with careful budgeting and saving. It’s wrong and has to be stopped.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Thomm
    It’s wrong and has to be stopped.

    So buying something at market price, while following all the laws, is wrong?

    This type of left-wing economic obstruction is ignorant. They have every right to buy these properties, doubly so if we are talking about 2nd gen, US born Asian Americans.

    If you aren't talented enough to earn the money to buy a house... well, guess what? You are the new negro..
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  • @hyperbola
    This is the thesis:

    "Previously I’ve established that these boundaries reflect genetic differences among different Americans in different places. This is because all human behavioral traits are heritable, with “nurture” (as it’s commonly thought of) playing a minimal to nonexistent role in each. This means that genetic differences between different peoples lead to differences in their behavioral traits, which, collectively, manifests as cultural differences."

    It seems that it is based on a very big, untested assumption. The existence of a correlation between "culture" and "genetics" does NOT prove "genetics determines culture". The thesis is based on migration of genetically different groups that were already culturally different. It is equally valid to claim "movement of cultures can be followed by those genetic differences that exist in different cultural/geographic areas". Your data/approach may be fundamentally incapable of distinguishing the two cases?

    It seems that it is based on a very big, untested assumption. The existence of a correlation between “culture” and “genetics” does NOT prove “genetics determines culture”.

    The persistence of cultural patterns as long as the population that embrace them remains.
    The lack of shared environmental effects in nationally representative behavioral genetic studies.
    The high heritability of behavioral traits from said studies.

    All do, though.

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  • This is the thesis:

    “Previously I’ve established that these boundaries reflect genetic differences among different Americans in different places. This is because all human behavioral traits are heritable, with “nurture” (as it’s commonly thought of) playing a minimal to nonexistent role in each. This means that genetic differences between different peoples lead to differences in their behavioral traits, which, collectively, manifests as cultural differences.”

    It seems that it is based on a very big, untested assumption. The existence of a correlation between “culture” and “genetics” does NOT prove “genetics determines culture”. The thesis is based on migration of genetically different groups that were already culturally different. It is equally valid to claim “movement of cultures can be followed by those genetic differences that exist in different cultural/geographic areas”. Your data/approach may be fundamentally incapable of distinguishing the two cases?

    Read More
    • Replies: @JayMan

    It seems that it is based on a very big, untested assumption. The existence of a correlation between “culture” and “genetics” does NOT prove “genetics determines culture”.
     
    The persistence of cultural patterns as long as the population that embrace them remains.
    The lack of shared environmental effects in nationally representative behavioral genetic studies.
    The high heritability of behavioral traits from said studies.

    All do, though.

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • […] were carved from a frontier that was north-south. But the frontier days are long gone. Look at http://www.unz.com/jman/the-genetics-of-the-american-nations/ . States that go more east-west are more likely to capture like-minded people. Additionally […]

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  • I have trouble with the genetic determinism bullshit, but I enjoy all the pretty maps. Before Woodard and Fisher there was Joel Garreau and his Nine Nations, which was more economic oriented and resembled Woodard’s map in the West but not in the East. Garreau justified and explained his boundaries. Woodard classifies every county in his maps and doesn’t explain why. So he makes egregious errors like putting San Bernardino County and the San Joaquin Valley in the Far West. Garreau put them in El Norte (MexAmerica) where they belong. I’m white (gavacho) but I identify as a non-Hispanic white OF El Norte. It’s part of my culture, my roots as a native of So Cal.

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  • @Zanon
    Hi

    Can you talk about Northern California. Who are the hippies?

    Hippies aren’t an ethnic group. Neither are hipsters.

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  • […] “While the original colonial ancestry of the country has been overrun by subsequent migrants, the founding stock remain as a genetic undercurrent – a common genetic thread – within each American nation. This is especially true in the nations of the American South, where the colonial settlers received less subsequent migration and the original stock remains strong.” http://www.unz.com/jman/the-genetics-of-the-american-nations/ […]

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  • My husband and I took a vacation in southern England last fall. He has ancestors who immigrated to Pennsylvania from Exeter in Devon. Clearly they did not all head for Virginia. What stood out to us was how much the people in Exeter looked like southerners in the United States. Especially the women. I half expected to hear a southern drawl but they were definitely English. Many reminded me of southern belles. In Bath, not so much.

    One thing was consistent in our drive across southern England in a rented Vauxhall. We got lost frequently, and every time a friendly and helpful English person would help us find our way. So it is no surprise that southerners are friendly. It is part of their culture.

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  • There are some theories floating around on the internets as to whether I am a bagel or even "a Turk of sorts and probably a muzzie actually." Now that I have finally become who I am, it is time to reveal who I am. Actually I was always an open book on this matter, but...
  • A new media craze. As I said all those percentages are money-making para- or pseudo-scientific fraud schemes, waste of your money. You cannot be “X% of somebody” unless you know it for sure for yourself (multiple-of-2 fractions like “3/4 borscht, 1/4 kebab” is OK by me, but you knew it long before any tests).

    http://генофонд.рф/?page_id=24315

    http://генофонд.рф/?page_id=24322

    http://генофонд.рф/?page_id=24326

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  • Expansion of modern humans out of Africa and within Africa. Mellars (2006). When we discuss the origins of modern humans, the term ‘Out of Africa’ is a bit misleading. Our common ancestors came not from Africa as a whole but from a relatively small area somewhere in East Africa. Beginning around 80,000 years ago, this...
  • @lesigh
    Seriously? I get that this is a white supremacist site where people are so backwards-thinking that they probably think males are smarter than females because of the larger brains on average, but you couldn't even bother to find out that neural connectivity and number of cortical folds matter more than size?

    There's no devolution. Neanderthals had larger brains, yes, but intraspecies brain size comparisons are meaningless unless they are of a very large value (meaning that severe retardation of development has occurred). Size in specific regions can be important, but in those regions (frontal lobe), Neanderthals were inferior. They also had fewer cortical folds, meaning less white matter and connectivity, and smoother but larger brains are less intelligent.

    Groups that exclusively interbred died off, there is no human on this planet that isn’t a hybrid from modern human species mixing with archaic humans species in a pattern that resembles a family tree and and all humans carry genetic mutations from archaic human species that existed well before any modern humans that have been found to have emerged from ethiopia in africa. A mutation in a west african gene is unique as it shows a mutation tied to archaic human species existing well beyond a million years ago.

    The hard pill for you to swallow is that “black people” or “africans” aren’t the first human species to inhabit the earth, black african’s history is just like white european peoples history…..the same just a tiny bit different and older, but not as original as so much misplaced pride would indicate. The oldest skull excavated in Bethlehem is that of a hybrid genetic mixture of modern and archaic humans.

    I didn’t write this to beef with you or correct you, just some food for thought. There is no absolute truth that anyone can crystallize into simple facts, there is only the layers of truth leading to the highest available truth any individual can perceive based on his/her knowledge and intellect at a given point in his/her mental development. Bottom line…..we are all continuously learning and developing from birth to death, and when we stop at some artificial or premature maximum we stop growing and kill off any future of evolutionary development.

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  • I will probably irritate somebody but whatever. Madame Blavatsky wrote of what were referred to as root races and their sub-races(genetic variants), one root race finally receding as another emerged but with a good period of overlap that allowed interaction and which passed DNA for the survival of the newer root race . She learned much of her knowledge of this in India and noted “race” was not meant as it is currently understood and that current humans are all members of the same root race, sprung from a single source. I read a lot on the subject and it doesn’t seem to be such a secret, just a secret hiding in plain sight but which one(self inclined individuals) must take the initiative to look around to see what there really is on the subject from various sources and find some common threads. This seems consistent with nature. If you look backwards its hard to see, look at is a tree in which a main upward reaching branch which represents humans evolution to this point and the trunk our beginning. As the main branch first splits, only one will continue on as the main branch…and our main branch has survived by mixing DNA to pass on mutation beneficial to future survival of humans and isolation and inbreeding are the branches which dead end along the way. Kinda gives meaning to the biblical passages about cutting off the dead branch and casting it into the fire or being cut off from the tree of life. huh?
    I saw a documentary using archaeology and geneticists confirming that humans today are hybrids of as of yet an unknown number of mixtures of human species over millions and perhaps hundreds of millions of years.

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  • Blade Runner had an impact on me, both as a film and because it was an introduction to the writings of Philip K Dick, whose whimsical work was based on wondering what it meant to be human. Are we as individuals merely constructions of fundamental genetic coding mechanisms, which create treasured but probably false memories...
  • There are some theories floating around on the internets as to whether I am a bagel or even "a Turk of sorts and probably a muzzie actually." Now that I have finally become who I am, it is time to reveal who I am. Actually I was always an open book on this matter, but...
  • @Anatoly Karlin
    I said primarily due to superior average IQ.

    There also seems to be some kind of "Mediterranean factor" at play - apart from Jews, Greek Americans and Christian Arab Americans also have far more in the Forbes 400 than their demographics + IQ would indicate.

    A few years ago I speculated that is because those areas have had a couple millennias' worth more experience of urban life than Germanics, and are more adept at wheeling-dealing their way into riches.

    I have an idea that Jewish success in all spheres including business comes down to three big factors: high intelligence, mania for achievement, and hyper-curiosity.

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  • @Zenarchy
    Thanks man, excellent reply.

    Good for you to be cool and not anti-Serb, being a Croat from Hercegovina. But you still didn't give me your personal opinion regarding physical characteristics.

    I'd like to see skull measurements, but if you say these features come from native Balkan people (I2a??), I have to believe you for now as evidence points to your claims being true.
    Interestingly, almost all of the Serbs I know that have that appearance, are very bellicose, even more than other Balkan peoples, famous for not being fans of non-violence.

    “Good for you to be cool and not anti-Serb, being a Croat from Hercegovina. But you still didn’t give me your personal opinion regarding physical characteristics.”

    There’s no point in being reflexively anti-Serb as the Serbian problem in Croatia no longer exists, except for a couple of shitheads on both sides seeking to keep themselves employed/in the public spotlight.

    As for physical characteristics, the Balkans have seen so many people pass through here and settle here, so certain odd appearances do pop up. Recall also that significant waves of assimilation have happened here over and over and over again. The Principality of Serbia (and later Kingdom) during the mid-19th century passed a law declaring that anyone who lived in Serbia for at least 10 years was automatically declared a Serb and would have to adopt a Serbian name and surname. This had the effect of rapidly assimilating many minorities of the time, particularly Cincars/Aroumanians, Greeks, Armenians, Vlachs, Bulgars, and yes, gypsies. Any settlement from Asia Minor/Anatolia in that smaller part of Serbia was mainly up in Belgrade and consisted of Greek and Armenian merchants and traders.

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  • Blade Runner had an impact on me, both as a film and because it was an introduction to the writings of Philip K Dick, whose whimsical work was based on wondering what it meant to be human. Are we as individuals merely constructions of fundamental genetic coding mechanisms, which create treasured but probably false memories...
  • @utu
    " It suffices that the selected parents are above average." - Correct!

    Or that, in a still randomly mating population, you have excluded the poor performers in each generation before you allow the others to breed..

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  • There are some theories floating around on the internets as to whether I am a bagel or even "a Turk of sorts and probably a muzzie actually." Now that I have finally become who I am, it is time to reveal who I am. Actually I was always an open book on this matter, but...
  • @Mark Eugenikos
    Thanks for the detailed info. Now I feel like I want to send my sample to 23andme and figure out at least part of the family history, beyond about 250 years for which we have the records.

    Here is my result -

    I tested around two years ago and will be doing a Y-67 at FTNDA soon to get a deeper read on my paternal line, which is J-M241 (aka J2B2*) which is Balkan as fuck and has its highest frequencies in Aroumanian (Cincar) people of Southern Albania and the Greek Pindus Mountains that form the border between Epirus and Thessaly, and among Albanians, particularly the Hoti Tribe of Montenegro along their border with Albania.

    A friend of mine from my county in Hercegovina and who is from the same parish as I am (7 villages away), tested J-M241 as well and he did his Y-67. He and I aren’t related (unless we go back a good distance, is my gut feeling) and this clade isn’t all that common. What he found is that his most recent common ancestor with any Albanians who have this clade is well over 2,000 years old, and the closest Serb to him genetically (who coincidentally is from Glamoc, right next door to us, just on the other side of the mountain) shares a most common recent ancestor dating back 3,900 years.

    I am working under the assumption that he and I will have a much, much closer date for the simple reason that is paternal line comes from further south in Hercegovina, just like my paternal line (who made a couple of stops in Dalmatia along the way).

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  • @Zenarchy
    Hi, Mark.

    I'm guessing about 10 percent Serbs I know personally here in Slovenia look a bit different than other Southern Slavs I know (which are many), but I can't post any of their photos for obvious reasons. I only know about 10 famous Serbs, though, and the closest to what I had in mind would likely be the rapper from post. 39 in this thread...
    Different, but still somehow more Serbian than say Croatian would be Vlade Divac - photo in the post No. 10 in this thread.

    As I said, those could simply be elements of Balkan genetics that are very rare and didn't spread towards NW parts of the Balkan... And quite possibly, these 2 might not look foreign in Macedonia or Bulgaria as those are the Balkan nationalities I know the least (numerically at least).

    p.s. We sometimes joke about Balkan jaws here in Slovenia (well, not me really). Compared to Slovenes or Poles, Czechs etc, it does seem there's some stronger chewing power there (Is sheep meat difficult to chew? :)

    Thanks for the examples.

    To me, Divac’s face looks more Gypsy than anything else, although his size would be extremely unusual for a Gypsy, as they tend to be on a small side. I agree that his phenotype is unusual for Serbs.

    Regarding the rapper, I can see why he looks Central Asian to you. Disregarding the beard, his combination of a long nose and small, shallow-set eyes makes him look Central Asian. Again, not a typical Serbian phenotype, in my experience.

    From my observations of the Serbs and other West Balkan peoples, it’s relatively common to find people with big brows and deep-set eyes, which make some look more Neanderthal. That’s the one thing that, to my eyes, makes Serbs visibly different from Russians. Russians often have shallow eye sockets, to the point that some look like blond Chinese.

    Also comparing Southern Slavs (Balkans) to the Northern Slavs (Czechs, Poles, etc.), to me the southerners’ faces seem more angular, while the northerners’ look softer and more rounded. Which would work in favor of northern women and of southern men. Just my opinion, though.

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  • Blade Runner had an impact on me, both as a film and because it was an introduction to the writings of Philip K Dick, whose whimsical work was based on wondering what it meant to be human. Are we as individuals merely constructions of fundamental genetic coding mechanisms, which create treasured but probably false memories...
  • @Wizard of Oz
    I would qualify your helpful observation by noting that you don't need to choose "parents with the maximum of the desired trait" to keep on improving the stock. It suffices that the selected parents are above average.

    Indeed that overstates the required breeding discipline. Long ago I calculatd that a 100 to 115 imprivement in population IQ could have been achieved in 500 years by simply preventing the under 80 (or 75) IQ people from reproducing. Greg Cochram rejected the implied explanation of Ashkenazi IQ rather crossly but didn't deny the logic of the calculation.

    So you just do any of whatever is required to raise the average each generation. Eating the worst young seems efficient.

    ” It suffices that the selected parents are above average.” – Correct!

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    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    Or that, in a still randomly mating population, you have excluded the poor performers in each generation before you allow the others to breed..
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • There are some theories floating around on the internets as to whether I am a bagel or even "a Turk of sorts and probably a muzzie actually." Now that I have finally become who I am, it is time to reveal who I am. Actually I was always an open book on this matter, but...
  • @Anatoly Karlin
    I said primarily due to superior average IQ.

    There also seems to be some kind of "Mediterranean factor" at play - apart from Jews, Greek Americans and Christian Arab Americans also have far more in the Forbes 400 than their demographics + IQ would indicate.

    A few years ago I speculated that is because those areas have had a couple millennias' worth more experience of urban life than Germanics, and are more adept at wheeling-dealing their way into riches.

    Clannish people do well in business. In Europe, the South has remained more clannish, more similar to Semites in some ways. That’s probably the explanation for Greeks doing well.
    Even in India, the most clannish trader castes are much richer than the national average. Although, every population with a long history of trading does usually well financially.

    Of course, if you add Ashkenazi IQ and nepotism in the mix, it’s a win-win combination. Slavs or Germans don’t capitalize on their IQs too well (especially Slavs historically).

    The opposite extreme from Jews would be Albanians and Chechens – strong clannishness, but combined with low IQs and sheep tending instead of trade – resulting in blood feuds and poverty.

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  • @Zenarchy
    Similar combinations like yours are found among Balkan Slavs, though only Slovenes and NW Croats are predominantly R1A Slavs. The non-Slavic part in Balkan Slavs is at least partially a result of Middle-Eastern migrations (and Turkish rape, cough*Serbs*cough: http://www4.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/2nd+Annual+Celebrity+Poker+Challenge+Benefiting+9RDlYOAnwOnl.jpg).

    We should, however, not forget that we all probably have some illegitimate ancestry as well. In my case, my father is so dark, that with his pure Slavic ancestry, I'm willing to bet the nearby Roma settlement had something to do with it... (Before you scoff, Roma's ancestors were among the most developed in the world some 5.000 years ago when Slavs' achievements consisted of milking cows and burying chariots.)

    When judging the exoticism of some individual from some other ethnic group, it’s helpful to ask somebody from said ethnic group. In this case, Divac might look unusual for a Serb to a foreigner, but perhaps not to another Serb.

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  • @Heyhey
    You're being very naive if you believe a superior IQ was enough, while dismissing quite banal facts of ethnic nepotism and entryism.

    Jews of North African descent, whose measured IQs are closer to average, still enjoy disproportionate economic footprint and influence in France. On the other hand, you can find sub-groups with high measured IQs in the US, like Episcopalians, whose economic dominance or political primacy barely register.

    I said primarily due to superior average IQ.

    There also seems to be some kind of “Mediterranean factor” at play – apart from Jews, Greek Americans and Christian Arab Americans also have far more in the Forbes 400 than their demographics + IQ would indicate.

    A few years ago I speculated that is because those areas have had a couple millennias’ worth more experience of urban life than Germanics, and are more adept at wheeling-dealing their way into riches.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Zenarchy
    Clannish people do well in business. In Europe, the South has remained more clannish, more similar to Semites in some ways. That's probably the explanation for Greeks doing well.
    Even in India, the most clannish trader castes are much richer than the national average. Although, every population with a long history of trading does usually well financially.

    Of course, if you add Ashkenazi IQ and nepotism in the mix, it's a win-win combination. Slavs or Germans don't capitalize on their IQs too well (especially Slavs historically).

    The opposite extreme from Jews would be Albanians and Chechens - strong clannishness, but combined with low IQs and sheep tending instead of trade - resulting in blood feuds and poverty.
    , @anonymous34
    I have an idea that Jewish success in all spheres including business comes down to three big factors: high intelligence, mania for achievement, and hyper-curiosity.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Greasy William

    In my experience, Russian-American Jews (“Sovok Jews”) tend to be very anti-Russian; my impressions don’t sync with yours.
     
    Are we talking about Soviet Jews or old stock American Jews of Russian Jewish decent? Secular American Jews of "Russian" (really Lithuanian, Latvian, Belarussian and Ukrainian) decent are usually moderately anti Russian while being proud of their (non-existent) Russian ancestry. Similar to how Haitians like to brag about their non-existant white blood despite the fact that they hate white people.

    Religious American Jews, actually religious Jews period, tend to get offended whenever it is suggested they have any non Jewish descent.

    Soviet Jews in the US are usually big time Russophiles so I don't know what you are talking about there. Even in Israel you have some Russophilic Soviet Jews like Lieberman and Sharansky and their type used to be the norm before the Russian Jews assimilated into Israeli culture and adopted the traditional Jewish Russophobia.

    Also, are you admitting that you have never said anything positive about Muslims?

    Most Soviet Jews are anti-Russian. I’m not representative.

    Historically most minorities assimilated into majority populations. How does a group become an exception to that rule, how does it stay coherent as a minority for many centuries? By disliking the majority. There are other examples: Gypsies, Armenians to some extent. I’m curious about the Hakka in China because they seem to have gone in some of the same directions as Jews, completely independently. It’s possible that any complex society would have that sort of a niche. Nature abhors a vacuum and tends to fill niches.

    If you randomly take a thousand minority groups, some of them will be more ethno-nationalist than others. It’s the kind of trait for which you’d expect to see some natural variation.

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  • @Anatoly Karlin
    I understand and accept that Jewish economic success is primarily due to their superior average IQ, as opposed to ZOG or whatever. This along makes me far more philo-Semitic than most Russian (and European) nationalists, and even quite a few Leftists.

    I don't go on about Anglo-Zionists, like one columnist on this website. In general, I do not care for Israel (or Palestine) one way or the other.

    I praised Russian-American Jews for supporting Trumps.

    In my experience, Russian-American Jews ("Sovok Jews") tend to be very anti-Russian; my impressions don't sync with yours.

    You’re being very naive if you believe a superior IQ was enough, while dismissing quite banal facts of ethnic nepotism and entryism.

    Jews of North African descent, whose measured IQs are closer to average, still enjoy disproportionate economic footprint and influence in France. On the other hand, you can find sub-groups with high measured IQs in the US, like Episcopalians, whose economic dominance or political primacy barely register.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    I said primarily due to superior average IQ.

    There also seems to be some kind of "Mediterranean factor" at play - apart from Jews, Greek Americans and Christian Arab Americans also have far more in the Forbes 400 than their demographics + IQ would indicate.

    A few years ago I speculated that is because those areas have had a couple millennias' worth more experience of urban life than Germanics, and are more adept at wheeling-dealing their way into riches.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Blade Runner had an impact on me, both as a film and because it was an introduction to the writings of Philip K Dick, whose whimsical work was based on wondering what it meant to be human. Are we as individuals merely constructions of fundamental genetic coding mechanisms, which create treasured but probably false memories...
  • @utu
    "a third of an IQ point per generation" - Where did you get this number from?

    For the breeder's equation to work (in selective breeding) one must understand what S really is. S is not determined at every step of the selective breeding by the mean of trait of the population at the starting point. The mean keeps changing. It keeps going up. That's why you can beat the regression to the mean with selective breeding process though you must put up with it at each single step. If it wasn't so, there would be no selective breeding. One could write a recursive equation for it.

    What is justification for the ad hoc formula R = (1+m) h^2 S you came up with? Just because you want to beat regression to the mean and get R > S? Guess what, I propose the following formula E=2*mc^2 so we can have more energy from nuclear power plants and at a lower cost. My desire is stronger than yours and even more noble, so I am sure my formula have higher chances to be correct than yours.

    Providing that there is no mutations R < S always! This inequality implies regression to the mean at each step. But in the selective breeding process the mean to which the regression occurs keeps increasing because the mean of offspring's population is higher than the mean of original population. So as long as you keep selecting new parents with a maximum of desired trait in the offspring population you end up beating the regression to the mean in a long run.

    Try to understand how to breed large pumpkins so you may figure out how to breed Jews with large noses.

    I would qualify your helpful observation by noting that you don’t need to choose “parents with the maximum of the desired trait” to keep on improving the stock. It suffices that the selected parents are above average.

    Indeed that overstates the required breeding discipline. Long ago I calculatd that a 100 to 115 imprivement in population IQ could have been achieved in 500 years by simply preventing the under 80 (or 75) IQ people from reproducing. Greg Cochram rejected the implied explanation of Ashkenazi IQ rather crossly but didn’t deny the logic of the calculation.

    So you just do any of whatever is required to raise the average each generation. Eating the worst young seems efficient.

    Read More
    • Replies: @utu
    " It suffices that the selected parents are above average." - Correct!
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • There are some theories floating around on the internets as to whether I am a bagel or even "a Turk of sorts and probably a muzzie actually." Now that I have finally become who I am, it is time to reveal who I am. Actually I was always an open book on this matter, but...
  • @Anatoly Karlin
    I understand and accept that Jewish economic success is primarily due to their superior average IQ, as opposed to ZOG or whatever. This along makes me far more philo-Semitic than most Russian (and European) nationalists, and even quite a few Leftists.

    I don't go on about Anglo-Zionists, like one columnist on this website. In general, I do not care for Israel (or Palestine) one way or the other.

    I praised Russian-American Jews for supporting Trumps.

    In my experience, Russian-American Jews ("Sovok Jews") tend to be very anti-Russian; my impressions don't sync with yours.

    In my experience, Russian-American Jews (“Sovok Jews”) tend to be very anti-Russian; my impressions don’t sync with yours.

    Are we talking about Soviet Jews or old stock American Jews of Russian Jewish decent? Secular American Jews of “Russian” (really Lithuanian, Latvian, Belarussian and Ukrainian) decent are usually moderately anti Russian while being proud of their (non-existent) Russian ancestry. Similar to how Haitians like to brag about their non-existant white blood despite the fact that they hate white people.

    Religious American Jews, actually religious Jews period, tend to get offended whenever it is suggested they have any non Jewish descent.

    Soviet Jews in the US are usually big time Russophiles so I don’t know what you are talking about there. Even in Israel you have some Russophilic Soviet Jews like Lieberman and Sharansky and their type used to be the norm before the Russian Jews assimilated into Israeli culture and adopted the traditional Jewish Russophobia.

    Also, are you admitting that you have never said anything positive about Muslims?

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    • Replies: @Glossy
    Most Soviet Jews are anti-Russian. I'm not representative.

    Historically most minorities assimilated into majority populations. How does a group become an exception to that rule, how does it stay coherent as a minority for many centuries? By disliking the majority. There are other examples: Gypsies, Armenians to some extent. I'm curious about the Hakka in China because they seem to have gone in some of the same directions as Jews, completely independently. It's possible that any complex society would have that sort of a niche. Nature abhors a vacuum and tends to fill niches.

    If you randomly take a thousand minority groups, some of them will be more ethno-nationalist than others. It's the kind of trait for which you'd expect to see some natural variation.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Greasy William

    There are some theories floating around on the internets as to whether I am a bagel or even “a Turk of sorts and probably a muzzie actually.”
     
    Despite the fact that you have never had anything even remotely positive to say about either of those groups?

    I don't know if there any any Jews left in Russia, but American Jews of Russian Jewish descent love to brag that they are "Russian". My own mother is big on that. This is despite the fact that the overwhelming majority of pre WWI Russian Jews never set foot in Russia proper and by all accounts disliked Russians and Russian culture, although not as much as they disliked Ukrainians and Poles.

    Secular American Jews get angry if you say they aren't Russian, religious American Jews get angry if you say they *are* Russian.

    I've never had any genetic testing done because I really just don't want to know what I really am.

    I understand and accept that Jewish economic success is primarily due to their superior average IQ, as opposed to ZOG or whatever. This along makes me far more philo-Semitic than most Russian (and European) nationalists, and even quite a few Leftists.

    I don’t go on about Anglo-Zionists, like one columnist on this website. In general, I do not care for Israel (or Palestine) one way or the other.

    I praised Russian-American Jews for supporting Trumps.

    In my experience, Russian-American Jews (“Sovok Jews”) tend to be very anti-Russian; my impressions don’t sync with yours.

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    • Replies: @Greasy William

    In my experience, Russian-American Jews (“Sovok Jews”) tend to be very anti-Russian; my impressions don’t sync with yours.
     
    Are we talking about Soviet Jews or old stock American Jews of Russian Jewish decent? Secular American Jews of "Russian" (really Lithuanian, Latvian, Belarussian and Ukrainian) decent are usually moderately anti Russian while being proud of their (non-existent) Russian ancestry. Similar to how Haitians like to brag about their non-existant white blood despite the fact that they hate white people.

    Religious American Jews, actually religious Jews period, tend to get offended whenever it is suggested they have any non Jewish descent.

    Soviet Jews in the US are usually big time Russophiles so I don't know what you are talking about there. Even in Israel you have some Russophilic Soviet Jews like Lieberman and Sharansky and their type used to be the norm before the Russian Jews assimilated into Israeli culture and adopted the traditional Jewish Russophobia.

    Also, are you admitting that you have never said anything positive about Muslims?
    , @Heyhey
    You're being very naive if you believe a superior IQ was enough, while dismissing quite banal facts of ethnic nepotism and entryism.

    Jews of North African descent, whose measured IQs are closer to average, still enjoy disproportionate economic footprint and influence in France. On the other hand, you can find sub-groups with high measured IQs in the US, like Episcopalians, whose economic dominance or political primacy barely register.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Mark Eugenikos

    almost all of the Serbs I know that have that appearance
     
    Can you be a bit more specific about "that appearance"? I am curious to know what appearance you have in mind. Were you referring to different cheekbnes, Central Asian? Or something else? Best if you could provide several known people (athletes, musicians, etc.) as examples.

    Hi, Mark.

    I’m guessing about 10 percent Serbs I know personally here in Slovenia look a bit different than other Southern Slavs I know (which are many), but I can’t post any of their photos for obvious reasons. I only know about 10 famous Serbs, though, and the closest to what I had in mind would likely be the rapper from post. 39 in this thread…
    Different, but still somehow more Serbian than say Croatian would be Vlade Divac – photo in the post No. 10 in this thread.

    As I said, those could simply be elements of Balkan genetics that are very rare and didn’t spread towards NW parts of the Balkan… And quite possibly, these 2 might not look foreign in Macedonia or Bulgaria as those are the Balkan nationalities I know the least (numerically at least).

    p.s. We sometimes joke about Balkan jaws here in Slovenia (well, not me really). Compared to Slovenes or Poles, Czechs etc, it does seem there’s some stronger chewing power there (Is sheep meat difficult to chew? :)

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    • Replies: @Mark Eugenikos
    Thanks for the examples.

    To me, Divac's face looks more Gypsy than anything else, although his size would be extremely unusual for a Gypsy, as they tend to be on a small side. I agree that his phenotype is unusual for Serbs.

    Regarding the rapper, I can see why he looks Central Asian to you. Disregarding the beard, his combination of a long nose and small, shallow-set eyes makes him look Central Asian. Again, not a typical Serbian phenotype, in my experience.

    From my observations of the Serbs and other West Balkan peoples, it's relatively common to find people with big brows and deep-set eyes, which make some look more Neanderthal. That's the one thing that, to my eyes, makes Serbs visibly different from Russians. Russians often have shallow eye sockets, to the point that some look like blond Chinese.

    Also comparing Southern Slavs (Balkans) to the Northern Slavs (Czechs, Poles, etc.), to me the southerners' faces seem more angular, while the northerners' look softer and more rounded. Which would work in favor of northern women and of southern men. Just my opinion, though.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • There are some theories floating around on the internets as to whether I am a bagel or even “a Turk of sorts and probably a muzzie actually.”

    Despite the fact that you have never had anything even remotely positive to say about either of those groups?

    I don’t know if there any any Jews left in Russia, but American Jews of Russian Jewish descent love to brag that they are “Russian”. My own mother is big on that. This is despite the fact that the overwhelming majority of pre WWI Russian Jews never set foot in Russia proper and by all accounts disliked Russians and Russian culture, although not as much as they disliked Ukrainians and Poles.

    Secular American Jews get angry if you say they aren’t Russian, religious American Jews get angry if you say they *are* Russian.

    I’ve never had any genetic testing done because I really just don’t want to know what I really am.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    I understand and accept that Jewish economic success is primarily due to their superior average IQ, as opposed to ZOG or whatever. This along makes me far more philo-Semitic than most Russian (and European) nationalists, and even quite a few Leftists.

    I don't go on about Anglo-Zionists, like one columnist on this website. In general, I do not care for Israel (or Palestine) one way or the other.

    I praised Russian-American Jews for supporting Trumps.

    In my experience, Russian-American Jews ("Sovok Jews") tend to be very anti-Russian; my impressions don't sync with yours.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Niccolo Salo
    Here we go:

    "But see, I just happen to know A LOT of Serbs with different cheekbones that I see in other Slavs, and these facial structures look a bit central Asian, so I assumed Turkish origin. You see, unlike other invasions in these parts, Turks were known for mass rapes and butchery while at war (although pretty civilized when finally in power). Let’s wait until we have huge studies, but I’m sure Serbs do have at some legacy of Turkish invasions (like SE Russians do of Tatar ones)."

    I'm a Croatian from Hercegovina and grew up around a lot of Serbs from various regions.

    Your mistake is in your assumptions and resting on visual clues. I just found a study of 85 Serbs from Aleksandrovac which is in Central Serbia and serves as a good case study for Serbs in Serbia in general.

    Check out the table at the bottom here - https://s6.postimg.org/rl0ehxpkx/aleksandrovac_003.png

    The only haplogroup there that isn't European is Q and is found at a frequency of 1.17% in Aleksandrovac in this study. The Serbian site Poreklo.rs has many, many more samples from Serbs from all over the ex-YU and the same frequencies largely hold. Q is also found on the island of Hvar in Croatia, a place where Turks never reached. Q is probably a legacy haplogroup from Avars or Pechenegs or in the Serbian case, Kumans from the Medieval era. There is a city in Northern Macedonia called Kumanovo (Place of the Cumans) where this tribe's soldiers were settled by the Byzantines during the Medieval era. We won't know the source of this Q until more corpses are exhumed and tested from that era.

    The evidence so far in Turkey is that only certain parts of Central Anatolia have any genetic input from Central Asia. I think one of the regions has something like 14% of its haplogroups showing derived from the Central Asian Stans. The rest of Turkey largely being those groups that were there prior to the arrival of the Seljuks which is why today's Turks cluster most closely with Armenians, Kurds, and Greeks and not with Uzbeks, Tajiks, or Kyrgyz.

    Thanks for the detailed info. Now I feel like I want to send my sample to 23andme and figure out at least part of the family history, beyond about 250 years for which we have the records.

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    • Replies: @Niccolo Salo
    Here is my result - https://s6.postimg.org/71wbldww1/cap1.png

    I tested around two years ago and will be doing a Y-67 at FTNDA soon to get a deeper read on my paternal line, which is J-M241 (aka J2B2*) which is Balkan as fuck and has its highest frequencies in Aroumanian (Cincar) people of Southern Albania and the Greek Pindus Mountains that form the border between Epirus and Thessaly, and among Albanians, particularly the Hoti Tribe of Montenegro along their border with Albania.

    A friend of mine from my county in Hercegovina and who is from the same parish as I am (7 villages away), tested J-M241 as well and he did his Y-67. He and I aren't related (unless we go back a good distance, is my gut feeling) and this clade isn't all that common. What he found is that his most recent common ancestor with any Albanians who have this clade is well over 2,000 years old, and the closest Serb to him genetically (who coincidentally is from Glamoc, right next door to us, just on the other side of the mountain) shares a most common recent ancestor dating back 3,900 years.

    I am working under the assumption that he and I will have a much, much closer date for the simple reason that is paternal line comes from further south in Hercegovina, just like my paternal line (who made a couple of stops in Dalmatia along the way).
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  • @Zenarchy
    Thanks man, excellent reply.

    Good for you to be cool and not anti-Serb, being a Croat from Hercegovina. But you still didn't give me your personal opinion regarding physical characteristics.

    I'd like to see skull measurements, but if you say these features come from native Balkan people (I2a??), I have to believe you for now as evidence points to your claims being true.
    Interestingly, almost all of the Serbs I know that have that appearance, are very bellicose, even more than other Balkan peoples, famous for not being fans of non-violence.

    almost all of the Serbs I know that have that appearance

    Can you be a bit more specific about “that appearance”? I am curious to know what appearance you have in mind. Were you referring to different cheekbnes, Central Asian? Or something else? Best if you could provide several known people (athletes, musicians, etc.) as examples.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Zenarchy
    Hi, Mark.

    I'm guessing about 10 percent Serbs I know personally here in Slovenia look a bit different than other Southern Slavs I know (which are many), but I can't post any of their photos for obvious reasons. I only know about 10 famous Serbs, though, and the closest to what I had in mind would likely be the rapper from post. 39 in this thread...
    Different, but still somehow more Serbian than say Croatian would be Vlade Divac - photo in the post No. 10 in this thread.

    As I said, those could simply be elements of Balkan genetics that are very rare and didn't spread towards NW parts of the Balkan... And quite possibly, these 2 might not look foreign in Macedonia or Bulgaria as those are the Balkan nationalities I know the least (numerically at least).

    p.s. We sometimes joke about Balkan jaws here in Slovenia (well, not me really). Compared to Slovenes or Poles, Czechs etc, it does seem there's some stronger chewing power there (Is sheep meat difficult to chew? :)
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @BB753
    How did a Muslim Lak, presumably female, marry into a Christian family before the revolution? Just curious.

    AK: No, the Lak is my maternal grandfather. Much more recent than the Revolution.

    Ok, it makes sense. Still, your mother is technically Muslim and yet married a Christian . Were Muslim customs and laws totally overruled by Communism?

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  • @Niccolo Salo
    Here we go:

    "But see, I just happen to know A LOT of Serbs with different cheekbones that I see in other Slavs, and these facial structures look a bit central Asian, so I assumed Turkish origin. You see, unlike other invasions in these parts, Turks were known for mass rapes and butchery while at war (although pretty civilized when finally in power). Let’s wait until we have huge studies, but I’m sure Serbs do have at some legacy of Turkish invasions (like SE Russians do of Tatar ones)."

    I'm a Croatian from Hercegovina and grew up around a lot of Serbs from various regions.

    Your mistake is in your assumptions and resting on visual clues. I just found a study of 85 Serbs from Aleksandrovac which is in Central Serbia and serves as a good case study for Serbs in Serbia in general.

    Check out the table at the bottom here - https://s6.postimg.org/rl0ehxpkx/aleksandrovac_003.png

    The only haplogroup there that isn't European is Q and is found at a frequency of 1.17% in Aleksandrovac in this study. The Serbian site Poreklo.rs has many, many more samples from Serbs from all over the ex-YU and the same frequencies largely hold. Q is also found on the island of Hvar in Croatia, a place where Turks never reached. Q is probably a legacy haplogroup from Avars or Pechenegs or in the Serbian case, Kumans from the Medieval era. There is a city in Northern Macedonia called Kumanovo (Place of the Cumans) where this tribe's soldiers were settled by the Byzantines during the Medieval era. We won't know the source of this Q until more corpses are exhumed and tested from that era.

    The evidence so far in Turkey is that only certain parts of Central Anatolia have any genetic input from Central Asia. I think one of the regions has something like 14% of its haplogroups showing derived from the Central Asian Stans. The rest of Turkey largely being those groups that were there prior to the arrival of the Seljuks which is why today's Turks cluster most closely with Armenians, Kurds, and Greeks and not with Uzbeks, Tajiks, or Kyrgyz.

    Thanks man, excellent reply.

    Good for you to be cool and not anti-Serb, being a Croat from Hercegovina. But you still didn’t give me your personal opinion regarding physical characteristics.

    I’d like to see skull measurements, but if you say these features come from native Balkan people (I2a??), I have to believe you for now as evidence points to your claims being true.
    Interestingly, almost all of the Serbs I know that have that appearance, are very bellicose, even more than other Balkan peoples, famous for not being fans of non-violence.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mark Eugenikos

    almost all of the Serbs I know that have that appearance
     
    Can you be a bit more specific about "that appearance"? I am curious to know what appearance you have in mind. Were you referring to different cheekbnes, Central Asian? Or something else? Best if you could provide several known people (athletes, musicians, etc.) as examples.
    , @Niccolo Salo
    "Good for you to be cool and not anti-Serb, being a Croat from Hercegovina. But you still didn’t give me your personal opinion regarding physical characteristics."

    There's no point in being reflexively anti-Serb as the Serbian problem in Croatia no longer exists, except for a couple of shitheads on both sides seeking to keep themselves employed/in the public spotlight.

    As for physical characteristics, the Balkans have seen so many people pass through here and settle here, so certain odd appearances do pop up. Recall also that significant waves of assimilation have happened here over and over and over again. The Principality of Serbia (and later Kingdom) during the mid-19th century passed a law declaring that anyone who lived in Serbia for at least 10 years was automatically declared a Serb and would have to adopt a Serbian name and surname. This had the effect of rapidly assimilating many minorities of the time, particularly Cincars/Aroumanians, Greeks, Armenians, Vlachs, Bulgars, and yes, gypsies. Any settlement from Asia Minor/Anatolia in that smaller part of Serbia was mainly up in Belgrade and consisted of Greek and Armenian merchants and traders.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Anatoly, Karlin is not an uncommon ethnic Russian surname, as you can see here: https://www.obd-memorial.ru/html/search.htm?f=%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%BB%D0%B8%D0%BD&n=&s=&y=&r=&p=1

    The root of the name is the dialectal word “karla” – which is basically the same thing as karlik (someone who is very short, a dwarf, etc). Also, a “son of Karl” would be Karlov, not Karlin, though in fact most Russian Karlovs have nothing to do with any Karls and have essentially the same name root as Karlins – the word “karlo” (same thing as “karla”).

    “the village Karlin near Pinsk” – err, what? Unless you know your ancestors were from around that area, wouldn’t it be more reasonable to look at places like Karlino, Tula oblast? Or the river Karlinka and adjacent settlement Karlinskoye in Ulyanovsk oblast?

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  • @Zenarchy
    Good reply.
    But see, I just happen to know A LOT of Serbs with different cheekbones that I see in other Slavs, and these facial structures look a bit central Asian, so I assumed Turkish origin. You see, unlike other invasions in these parts, Turks were known for mass rapes and butchery while at war (although pretty civilized when finally in power). Let's wait until we have huge studies, but I'm sure Serbs do have at some legacy of Turkish invasions (like SE Russians do of Tatar ones).

    You look at someone like Novak Djokovich and you see the typical Illyrian body type and head. You look at Branislav Ivanovich, and you see the strong Slavic influence (plus a bit of the Balkan).
    But while I know genetics does not always equal appearance, faces such as this Slovenian rapper of Serbian origin do look a bit Central Asian, don't they?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqtoqUs1zxo

    Here we go:

    “But see, I just happen to know A LOT of Serbs with different cheekbones that I see in other Slavs, and these facial structures look a bit central Asian, so I assumed Turkish origin. You see, unlike other invasions in these parts, Turks were known for mass rapes and butchery while at war (although pretty civilized when finally in power). Let’s wait until we have huge studies, but I’m sure Serbs do have at some legacy of Turkish invasions (like SE Russians do of Tatar ones).”

    I’m a Croatian from Hercegovina and grew up around a lot of Serbs from various regions.

    Your mistake is in your assumptions and resting on visual clues. I just found a study of 85 Serbs from Aleksandrovac which is in Central Serbia and serves as a good case study for Serbs in Serbia in general.

    Check out the table at the bottom here -

    The only haplogroup there that isn’t European is Q and is found at a frequency of 1.17% in Aleksandrovac in this study. The Serbian site Poreklo.rs has many, many more samples from Serbs from all over the ex-YU and the same frequencies largely hold. Q is also found on the island of Hvar in Croatia, a place where Turks never reached. Q is probably a legacy haplogroup from Avars or Pechenegs or in the Serbian case, Kumans from the Medieval era. There is a city in Northern Macedonia called Kumanovo (Place of the Cumans) where this tribe’s soldiers were settled by the Byzantines during the Medieval era. We won’t know the source of this Q until more corpses are exhumed and tested from that era.

    The evidence so far in Turkey is that only certain parts of Central Anatolia have any genetic input from Central Asia. I think one of the regions has something like 14% of its haplogroups showing derived from the Central Asian Stans. The rest of Turkey largely being those groups that were there prior to the arrival of the Seljuks which is why today’s Turks cluster most closely with Armenians, Kurds, and Greeks and not with Uzbeks, Tajiks, or Kyrgyz.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Zenarchy
    Thanks man, excellent reply.

    Good for you to be cool and not anti-Serb, being a Croat from Hercegovina. But you still didn't give me your personal opinion regarding physical characteristics.

    I'd like to see skull measurements, but if you say these features come from native Balkan people (I2a??), I have to believe you for now as evidence points to your claims being true.
    Interestingly, almost all of the Serbs I know that have that appearance, are very bellicose, even more than other Balkan peoples, famous for not being fans of non-violence.
    , @Mark Eugenikos
    Thanks for the detailed info. Now I feel like I want to send my sample to 23andme and figure out at least part of the family history, beyond about 250 years for which we have the records.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Blade Runner had an impact on me, both as a film and because it was an introduction to the writings of Philip K Dick, whose whimsical work was based on wondering what it meant to be human. Are we as individuals merely constructions of fundamental genetic coding mechanisms, which create treasured but probably false memories...
  • Thanks for your articles.

    I stick by my list of the few faithful film adaptions, I am not wanting to repeat myself, but will leave it to the below.

    Seriously, most strongly I recommend a close reading of A Scanner Darkly, then watch the movie.

    Not perfect, but the closest.

    As a second, read ‘Do Androids’ and consider it against Bladder Runner, have an old pdf of the inermediate stage, enough of a fan to have closely read it all.

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  • There are some theories floating around on the internets as to whether I am a bagel or even "a Turk of sorts and probably a muzzie actually." Now that I have finally become who I am, it is time to reveal who I am. Actually I was always an open book on this matter, but...
  • @Anatoly Karlin
    23andme isn't just ancestry, it gives health reports as well (or did: The FDA decided peons couldn't be trusted with it and told 23andme to stop doing it. Though as I recall that decision has recently been reversed).

    Anyhow, the people who had 23andme done before that ruling kept their health reports, and I have to say their assessments are actually remarkably accurate and correlate to what we know of family medical history very well.

    Thank you for clarifying your intentions. Realistically speaking, it is impossible for any minimally independent-minded person to find someone they agree with 100% or even close. The best we can do is triangulate.

    I think a better or the real way to get a health report is to go to hospital. Moreover in Russia it’s (in theory) free and in the USA you must be covered.

    I suppose the only thing they could do is to do simple checks for some genes which make you liable to some diseases.

    What drives me off is their calculation. How is it possible to get percentage? Imagine I got a report stating 50% EE[urope], 25% SE, and 25% EA[sian]. What does it mean? I know for sure I’m 100% EE. If they suggest I’ve got some ancestors from NE, SE, or EA, they would be wrong as I know not only where my grandparents were from, but my great-grandparents as well. They weren’t for sure from Japan or the Balkans. That is I’m not even 1/8 other than EE. I’m not some American mongrel with a whole bouquet of ancestries from all around the world and who wants to know the exact “percentage”.

    If they suggest my distant ancestors from a thousand or more years ago came from some distant land, so I would ask them how do they know what genes the people in particular regions had back then? And what is their database to draw such conclusions? Have their company made a thorough study of the full genomes of the world population and created a global genetic database? I doubt that anybody did that. They rather have only Y-hg. They check your Y-hg against the well-known world distributions and thus they got their strange numbers. Yes, if you have R1a, and R1a is 50%-60% in EE, 10% in SE and 1% in EA, so you’re most probably 50%-60% EE, 10% SE and 1% EA. How dumb simple.

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  • @Niccolo Salo
    There is no evidence that Serbs are "Turkish rape babies". The Middle Eastern haplogroups present in the Balkans arrived there a very, very long time ago, with G2a showing up during the Neolithic, and the J1 and J2 variants showing up anywhere between the Neolithic and the Chalcolithic/Early Bronze Age.

    There was no mass settlement of Anatolian Turks anywhere near Serbia nor North or West of it. Small numbers were settled in today's Greece and Bulgaria, but most self-identified Turks in the Balkans were simply locals who had converted, thus leaving legacy populations in today's Macedonia and Bulgaria. Turks in Greece were sent to Turkey after WW1 if they hadn't already left previously.

    Serbia, Bosnia, Albania, and Ottoman occupied portions of today's Croatia had no Turkish settlers as the Ottoman officials in these places were all converts from local populations. Many of these chose to move to other parts of the Ottoman Empire (all the way to Istanbul and Izmir/Smyrna in many cases) when these lands kicked the empire out.

    Good reply.
    But see, I just happen to know A LOT of Serbs with different cheekbones that I see in other Slavs, and these facial structures look a bit central Asian, so I assumed Turkish origin. You see, unlike other invasions in these parts, Turks were known for mass rapes and butchery while at war (although pretty civilized when finally in power). Let’s wait until we have huge studies, but I’m sure Serbs do have at some legacy of Turkish invasions (like SE Russians do of Tatar ones).

    You look at someone like Novak Djokovich and you see the typical Illyrian body type and head. You look at Branislav Ivanovich, and you see the strong Slavic influence (plus a bit of the Balkan).
    But while I know genetics does not always equal appearance, faces such as this Slovenian rapper of Serbian origin do look a bit Central Asian, don’t they?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Niccolo Salo
    Here we go:

    "But see, I just happen to know A LOT of Serbs with different cheekbones that I see in other Slavs, and these facial structures look a bit central Asian, so I assumed Turkish origin. You see, unlike other invasions in these parts, Turks were known for mass rapes and butchery while at war (although pretty civilized when finally in power). Let’s wait until we have huge studies, but I’m sure Serbs do have at some legacy of Turkish invasions (like SE Russians do of Tatar ones)."

    I'm a Croatian from Hercegovina and grew up around a lot of Serbs from various regions.

    Your mistake is in your assumptions and resting on visual clues. I just found a study of 85 Serbs from Aleksandrovac which is in Central Serbia and serves as a good case study for Serbs in Serbia in general.

    Check out the table at the bottom here - https://s6.postimg.org/rl0ehxpkx/aleksandrovac_003.png

    The only haplogroup there that isn't European is Q and is found at a frequency of 1.17% in Aleksandrovac in this study. The Serbian site Poreklo.rs has many, many more samples from Serbs from all over the ex-YU and the same frequencies largely hold. Q is also found on the island of Hvar in Croatia, a place where Turks never reached. Q is probably a legacy haplogroup from Avars or Pechenegs or in the Serbian case, Kumans from the Medieval era. There is a city in Northern Macedonia called Kumanovo (Place of the Cumans) where this tribe's soldiers were settled by the Byzantines during the Medieval era. We won't know the source of this Q until more corpses are exhumed and tested from that era.

    The evidence so far in Turkey is that only certain parts of Central Anatolia have any genetic input from Central Asia. I think one of the regions has something like 14% of its haplogroups showing derived from the Central Asian Stans. The rest of Turkey largely being those groups that were there prior to the arrival of the Seljuks which is why today's Turks cluster most closely with Armenians, Kurds, and Greeks and not with Uzbeks, Tajiks, or Kyrgyz.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Halvorson
    The Eurogenes K15 test on Gedmatch is probably the best overall at pinpointing genetic ancestry. They have a Oracle program there that models your results as a mixture of many different populations. I think it's especially good for mutts. Results look like this:

    http://i.imgur.com/BC1ZYqc.jpg

    You should also consider uploading your results to DNA Land. Their ancestry reports break down East European and Middle Eastern ancestry in a more detailed way than 23andMe.

    Thanks! I’ll make a note to check this out.

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  • The Eurogenes K15 test on Gedmatch is probably the best overall at pinpointing genetic ancestry. They have a Oracle program there that models your results as a mixture of many different populations. I think it’s especially good for mutts. Results look like this:

    You should also consider uploading your results to DNA Land. Their ancestry reports break down East European and Middle Eastern ancestry in a more detailed way than 23andMe.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    Thanks! I'll make a note to check this out.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • I wonder how your 23andMe would compare with the averages of

    (1) All citizens of Russia

    (2) self-identified Ethnic Russians (I am quite certain you identify as an ethnic Russian)

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  • How did a Muslim Lak, presumably female, marry into a Christian family before the revolution? Just curious.

    AK: No, the Lak is my maternal grandfather. Much more recent than the Revolution.

    Read More
    • Replies: @BB753
    Ok, it makes sense. Still, your mother is technically Muslim and yet married a Christian . Were Muslim customs and laws totally overruled by Communism?
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Zenarchy
    Much of it, yes. Especially in the Western parts of the Balkans (Albanians are the most Illyrian), so probably Dalmatians, Herzegovinians, and Montenegrins. There's definitely ME genetics there as well, though.

    There is no evidence that Serbs are “Turkish rape babies”. The Middle Eastern haplogroups present in the Balkans arrived there a very, very long time ago, with G2a showing up during the Neolithic, and the J1 and J2 variants showing up anywhere between the Neolithic and the Chalcolithic/Early Bronze Age.

    There was no mass settlement of Anatolian Turks anywhere near Serbia nor North or West of it. Small numbers were settled in today’s Greece and Bulgaria, but most self-identified Turks in the Balkans were simply locals who had converted, thus leaving legacy populations in today’s Macedonia and Bulgaria. Turks in Greece were sent to Turkey after WW1 if they hadn’t already left previously.

    Serbia, Bosnia, Albania, and Ottoman occupied portions of today’s Croatia had no Turkish settlers as the Ottoman officials in these places were all converts from local populations. Many of these chose to move to other parts of the Ottoman Empire (all the way to Istanbul and Izmir/Smyrna in many cases) when these lands kicked the empire out.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Zenarchy
    Good reply.
    But see, I just happen to know A LOT of Serbs with different cheekbones that I see in other Slavs, and these facial structures look a bit central Asian, so I assumed Turkish origin. You see, unlike other invasions in these parts, Turks were known for mass rapes and butchery while at war (although pretty civilized when finally in power). Let's wait until we have huge studies, but I'm sure Serbs do have at some legacy of Turkish invasions (like SE Russians do of Tatar ones).

    You look at someone like Novak Djokovich and you see the typical Illyrian body type and head. You look at Branislav Ivanovich, and you see the strong Slavic influence (plus a bit of the Balkan).
    But while I know genetics does not always equal appearance, faces such as this Slovenian rapper of Serbian origin do look a bit Central Asian, don't they?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqtoqUs1zxo
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  • @Anatoly Karlin
    23andme isn't just ancestry, it gives health reports as well (or did: The FDA decided peons couldn't be trusted with it and told 23andme to stop doing it. Though as I recall that decision has recently been reversed).

    Anyhow, the people who had 23andme done before that ruling kept their health reports, and I have to say their assessments are actually remarkably accurate and correlate to what we know of family medical history very well.

    Thank you for clarifying your intentions. Realistically speaking, it is impossible for any minimally independent-minded person to find someone they agree with 100% or even close. The best we can do is triangulate.

    What is triangulating in this context?

    Virtually every day I look up some argot, especially initialisms, … I look up in this-and-that encyclopedia, & search engine, the Urban dictionary … and my sense is that there is an excess of jargon use. In the past few days, even an abnormally pedantic reader like me ended up puzzled 2-3 times.

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  • @iffen
    The best we can do is triangulate.

    I thought this was patented by the liberals. I was unaware of it being open source and available to the dark side.

    (((they))) want ur genetic fingerprint for future use and u give to them for free? goood goy

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    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Blade Runner had an impact on me, both as a film and because it was an introduction to the writings of Philip K Dick, whose whimsical work was based on wondering what it meant to be human. Are we as individuals merely constructions of fundamental genetic coding mechanisms, which create treasured but probably false memories...
  • @utu
    "a third of an IQ point per generation" - Where did you get this number from?

    For the breeder's equation to work (in selective breeding) one must understand what S really is. S is not determined at every step of the selective breeding by the mean of trait of the population at the starting point. The mean keeps changing. It keeps going up. That's why you can beat the regression to the mean with selective breeding process though you must put up with it at each single step. If it wasn't so, there would be no selective breeding. One could write a recursive equation for it.

    What is justification for the ad hoc formula R = (1+m) h^2 S you came up with? Just because you want to beat regression to the mean and get R > S? Guess what, I propose the following formula E=2*mc^2 so we can have more energy from nuclear power plants and at a lower cost. My desire is stronger than yours and even more noble, so I am sure my formula have higher chances to be correct than yours.

    Providing that there is no mutations R < S always! This inequality implies regression to the mean at each step. But in the selective breeding process the mean to which the regression occurs keeps increasing because the mean of offspring's population is higher than the mean of original population. So as long as you keep selecting new parents with a maximum of desired trait in the offspring population you end up beating the regression to the mean in a long run.

    Try to understand how to breed large pumpkins so you may figure out how to breed Jews with large noses.

    “”” “a third of an IQ point per generation” – Where did you get this number from? “””
    It is from Cochran’s paper, go read their paper.

    “”” What is justification for the ad hoc formula R = (1+m) h^2 S you came up with? “””
    You brough up Walsh’s paper. It is in their paper. Go read again the paper you youself suggested. It is also in Cochran’s paper.

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  • @dux.ie
    This is after all a blog on intellegence.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_Jewish_intelligence#.22Natural_History_of_Intelligence.22

    """In a television interview, Cochran said: "...So if [ Jews] (statistically and positively accumulatively net) increased a third of an IQ point per generation, that would almost certainly be enough to make this effect happen." """ With my own emphasis.

    Over a thousand years statistically and consistently positive accumulation, no regression to the mean. If a modified breeder equation R = (1+m) h^2 S is used, then R ge or le S, then regression to the mean R lt S is only one of the possible outcome and it is not the driving force for the above condition, the improvement accumulated over a long time.

    “a third of an IQ point per generation” – Where did you get this number from?

    For the breeder’s equation to work (in selective breeding) one must understand what S really is. S is not determined at every step of the selective breeding by the mean of trait of the population at the starting point. The mean keeps changing. It keeps going up. That’s why you can beat the regression to the mean with selective breeding process though you must put up with it at each single step. If it wasn’t so, there would be no selective breeding. One could write a recursive equation for it.

    What is justification for the ad hoc formula R = (1+m) h^2 S you came up with? Just because you want to beat regression to the mean and get R > S? Guess what, I propose the following formula E=2*mc^2 so we can have more energy from nuclear power plants and at a lower cost. My desire is stronger than yours and even more noble, so I am sure my formula have higher chances to be correct than yours.

    Providing that there is no mutations R < S always! This inequality implies regression to the mean at each step. But in the selective breeding process the mean to which the regression occurs keeps increasing because the mean of offspring's population is higher than the mean of original population. So as long as you keep selecting new parents with a maximum of desired trait in the offspring population you end up beating the regression to the mean in a long run.

    Try to understand how to breed large pumpkins so you may figure out how to breed Jews with large noses.

    Read More
    • Replies: @dux.ie
    """ “a third of an IQ point per generation” – Where did you get this number from? """
    It is from Cochran's paper, go read their paper.

    """ What is justification for the ad hoc formula R = (1+m) h^2 S you came up with? """
    You brough up Walsh's paper. It is in their paper. Go read again the paper you youself suggested. It is also in Cochran's paper.
    , @Wizard of Oz
    I would qualify your helpful observation by noting that you don't need to choose "parents with the maximum of the desired trait" to keep on improving the stock. It suffices that the selected parents are above average.

    Indeed that overstates the required breeding discipline. Long ago I calculatd that a 100 to 115 imprivement in population IQ could have been achieved in 500 years by simply preventing the under 80 (or 75) IQ people from reproducing. Greg Cochram rejected the implied explanation of Ashkenazi IQ rather crossly but didn't deny the logic of the calculation.

    So you just do any of whatever is required to raise the average each generation. Eating the worst young seems efficient.

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • There are some theories floating around on the internets as to whether I am a bagel or even "a Turk of sorts and probably a muzzie actually." Now that I have finally become who I am, it is time to reveal who I am. Actually I was always an open book on this matter, but...
  • The best we can do is triangulate.

    I thought this was patented by the liberals. I was unaware of it being open source and available to the dark side.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    (((they))) want ur genetic fingerprint for future use and u give to them for free? goood goy
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Boris N
    I haven't taken the test and it's unlikely I'll do it just for a reason that all my paternal ancestors came from a region which have one of the highest proportion of R1a, so the likeliest chance I have it either. Unlikely I will know something new with a test. Do we turn out to be distant relatives then, he? VERY distant, though.

    Just a side note. We have had a lot of arguments and we've trolled each other a lot and I disagree with you in about half of things, but I have always had a positive view on you, otherwise I wouldn't read and comment. So you would be wrong if you thought I'm your adversary or even enemy. I just like arguing just for the fun of it.

    23andme isn’t just ancestry, it gives health reports as well (or did: The FDA decided peons couldn’t be trusted with it and told 23andme to stop doing it. Though as I recall that decision has recently been reversed).

    Anyhow, the people who had 23andme done before that ruling kept their health reports, and I have to say their assessments are actually remarkably accurate and correlate to what we know of family medical history very well.

    Thank you for clarifying your intentions. Realistically speaking, it is impossible for any minimally independent-minded person to find someone they agree with 100% or even close. The best we can do is triangulate.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Ivan K.
    What is triangulating in this context?

    Virtually every day I look up some argot, especially initialisms, ... I look up in this-and-that encyclopedia, & search engine, the Urban dictionary ... and my sense is that there is an excess of jargon use. In the past few days, even an abnormally pedantic reader like me ended up puzzled 2-3 times.
    , @Boris N
    I think a better or the real way to get a health report is to go to hospital. Moreover in Russia it's (in theory) free and in the USA you must be covered.

    I suppose the only thing they could do is to do simple checks for some genes which make you liable to some diseases.

    What drives me off is their calculation. How is it possible to get percentage? Imagine I got a report stating 50% EE[urope], 25% SE, and 25% EA[sian]. What does it mean? I know for sure I'm 100% EE. If they suggest I've got some ancestors from NE, SE, or EA, they would be wrong as I know not only where my grandparents were from, but my great-grandparents as well. They weren't for sure from Japan or the Balkans. That is I'm not even 1/8 other than EE. I'm not some American mongrel with a whole bouquet of ancestries from all around the world and who wants to know the exact "percentage".

    If they suggest my distant ancestors from a thousand or more years ago came from some distant land, so I would ask them how do they know what genes the people in particular regions had back then? And what is their database to draw such conclusions? Have their company made a thorough study of the full genomes of the world population and created a global genetic database? I doubt that anybody did that. They rather have only Y-hg. They check your Y-hg against the well-known world distributions and thus they got their strange numbers. Yes, if you have R1a, and R1a is 50%-60% in EE, 10% in SE and 1% in EA, so you're most probably 50%-60% EE, 10% SE and 1% EA. How dumb simple.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Glossy
    Anatoly has said that his parents are scientists. Lots of scientists of many backgrounds, including ethnic Russians, left the former USSR in the 1990s to work at Western universities. This was because the Yeltsin-oligarchic regime didn't pay them salaries and didn't care about science.

    One of my childhood friends was an ethnically-Russian son of biologists who ended up in the West for this reason.

    I think Nina "Byzantina" of Twitter fame is of that background too.
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  • Blade Runner had an impact on me, both as a film and because it was an introduction to the writings of Philip K Dick, whose whimsical work was based on wondering what it meant to be human. Are we as individuals merely constructions of fundamental genetic coding mechanisms, which create treasured but probably false memories...
  • @utu
    "Only digression from the mean could propel the Ashkenazi Jews’ IQ to much higher than their proto ancient Jews and ancient European ancestors in only a few generations."

    I see you are obsessed with some Jewish IQ Problem. How many generations is a few generations? You have any data on Jewish IQ from antiquity and Middle Ages? Are you sure you understand the regression to the mean in the context of the breeder's equation? Because you know, despite of that regression you can breed 1000 pound pumpkins. So I do not see any reason why you could not breed a Jew with a really big nose.

    This is after all a blog on intellegence.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_Jewish_intelligence#.22Natural_History_of_Intelligence.22

    “””In a television interview, Cochran said: “…So if [ Jews] (statistically and positively accumulatively net) increased a third of an IQ point per generation, that would almost certainly be enough to make this effect happen.” “”” With my own emphasis.

    Over a thousand years statistically and consistently positive accumulation, no regression to the mean. If a modified breeder equation R = (1+m) h^2 S is used, then R ge or le S, then regression to the mean R lt S is only one of the possible outcome and it is not the driving force for the above condition, the improvement accumulated over a long time.

    Read More
    • Replies: @utu
    "a third of an IQ point per generation" - Where did you get this number from?

    For the breeder's equation to work (in selective breeding) one must understand what S really is. S is not determined at every step of the selective breeding by the mean of trait of the population at the starting point. The mean keeps changing. It keeps going up. That's why you can beat the regression to the mean with selective breeding process though you must put up with it at each single step. If it wasn't so, there would be no selective breeding. One could write a recursive equation for it.

    What is justification for the ad hoc formula R = (1+m) h^2 S you came up with? Just because you want to beat regression to the mean and get R > S? Guess what, I propose the following formula E=2*mc^2 so we can have more energy from nuclear power plants and at a lower cost. My desire is stronger than yours and even more noble, so I am sure my formula have higher chances to be correct than yours.

    Providing that there is no mutations R < S always! This inequality implies regression to the mean at each step. But in the selective breeding process the mean to which the regression occurs keeps increasing because the mean of offspring's population is higher than the mean of original population. So as long as you keep selecting new parents with a maximum of desired trait in the offspring population you end up beating the regression to the mean in a long run.

    Try to understand how to breed large pumpkins so you may figure out how to breed Jews with large noses.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • There are some theories floating around on the internets as to whether I am a bagel or even "a Turk of sorts and probably a muzzie actually." Now that I have finally become who I am, it is time to reveal who I am. Actually I was always an open book on this matter, but...
  • @German_reader
    So Dagestanis genetically cluster with the MENA region? Seems counterintuitive to me.
    Anyway, good luck with your genealogical studies, your family history seems to be more interesting than is the case for most people.

    Since presumably very few Dagestanis get tested by 23andme, I’d assume it struggles to characterize them; hence, presumably, that component being split between “Balkan” 11% + MENA 8% + “Broadly South European” 6% = conveniently round 25%.

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  • Blade Runner had an impact on me, both as a film and because it was an introduction to the writings of Philip K Dick, whose whimsical work was based on wondering what it meant to be human. Are we as individuals merely constructions of fundamental genetic coding mechanisms, which create treasured but probably false memories...
  • @utu
    "Only digression from the mean could propel the Ashkenazi Jews’ IQ to much higher than their proto ancient Jews and ancient European ancestors in only a few generations."

    I see you are obsessed with some Jewish IQ Problem. How many generations is a few generations? You have any data on Jewish IQ from antiquity and Middle Ages? Are you sure you understand the regression to the mean in the context of the breeder's equation? Because you know, despite of that regression you can breed 1000 pound pumpkins. So I do not see any reason why you could not breed a Jew with a really big nose.

    Theoretical predictions are fine but at some stage you have to have reality check. Do you believe in Darwinian evolution or that all higher order life are created during the big bang?

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    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • There are some theories floating around on the internets as to whether I am a bagel or even "a Turk of sorts and probably a muzzie actually." Now that I have finally become who I am, it is time to reveal who I am. Actually I was always an open book on this matter, but...
  • @Glossy
    I think that the non-Slavic ancestry in the former Yugoslavia is ancient Illyrian.

    Much of it, yes. Especially in the Western parts of the Balkans (Albanians are the most Illyrian), so probably Dalmatians, Herzegovinians, and Montenegrins. There’s definitely ME genetics there as well, though.

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    • Replies: @Niccolo Salo
    There is no evidence that Serbs are "Turkish rape babies". The Middle Eastern haplogroups present in the Balkans arrived there a very, very long time ago, with G2a showing up during the Neolithic, and the J1 and J2 variants showing up anywhere between the Neolithic and the Chalcolithic/Early Bronze Age.

    There was no mass settlement of Anatolian Turks anywhere near Serbia nor North or West of it. Small numbers were settled in today's Greece and Bulgaria, but most self-identified Turks in the Balkans were simply locals who had converted, thus leaving legacy populations in today's Macedonia and Bulgaria. Turks in Greece were sent to Turkey after WW1 if they hadn't already left previously.

    Serbia, Bosnia, Albania, and Ottoman occupied portions of today's Croatia had no Turkish settlers as the Ottoman officials in these places were all converts from local populations. Many of these chose to move to other parts of the Ottoman Empire (all the way to Istanbul and Izmir/Smyrna in many cases) when these lands kicked the empire out.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Blade Runner had an impact on me, both as a film and because it was an introduction to the writings of Philip K Dick, whose whimsical work was based on wondering what it meant to be human. Are we as individuals merely constructions of fundamental genetic coding mechanisms, which create treasured but probably false memories...
  • @dux.ie
    Both Walsh’s and your arguments falls into the trap of Zeno paradoxes, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeno%27s_paradoxes

    Look at the larger picture, only digression from the old population mean causes new phenotype/specie to form. Regression to the mean with statistically one step forward one step back will reduce all living things to a single specie. Only digression from the mean could propel the Ashkenazi Jews’ IQ to much higher than their proto ancient Jews and ancient European ancestors in only a few generations.

    The explanation of Jean Paul Van Bendegem for breaking the Zeno paradoxes seems to be the best. The changes are not infinitely divisible and there is a finite discrete minimum change (allele) which will cause the system to break through the boundaries and once crossed previous assumptions and constraints are most probably no longer valid.

    “Only digression from the mean could propel the Ashkenazi Jews’ IQ to much higher than their proto ancient Jews and ancient European ancestors in only a few generations.”

    I see you are obsessed with some Jewish IQ Problem. How many generations is a few generations? You have any data on Jewish IQ from antiquity and Middle Ages? Are you sure you understand the regression to the mean in the context of the breeder’s equation? Because you know, despite of that regression you can breed 1000 pound pumpkins. So I do not see any reason why you could not breed a Jew with a really big nose.

    Read More
    • Replies: @dux.ie
    Theoretical predictions are fine but at some stage you have to have reality check. Do you believe in Darwinian evolution or that all higher order life are created during the big bang?
    , @dux.ie
    This is after all a blog on intellegence.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_Jewish_intelligence#.22Natural_History_of_Intelligence.22

    """In a television interview, Cochran said: "...So if [ Jews] (statistically and positively accumulatively net) increased a third of an IQ point per generation, that would almost certainly be enough to make this effect happen." """ With my own emphasis.

    Over a thousand years statistically and consistently positive accumulation, no regression to the mean. If a modified breeder equation R = (1+m) h^2 S is used, then R ge or le S, then regression to the mean R lt S is only one of the possible outcome and it is not the driving force for the above condition, the improvement accumulated over a long time.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • There are some theories floating around on the internets as to whether I am a bagel or even "a Turk of sorts and probably a muzzie actually." Now that I have finally become who I am, it is time to reveal who I am. Actually I was always an open book on this matter, but...
  • @Glossy
    I think that in Western Europe all births were recorded starting in the 16th century. So you could probably trace your Italian side really, really far back.

    I think that within the Russian empire the recording of all births started much later. I'm assuming the 19th century, though I don't know for sure.

    Even though Jews had high literacy, they didn't use it to record any of this. So the earliest ancestors of mine that I'm aware of are two great-great-grandparents who were probably born in the 1840s or 1850s. And this is only because a cousin of my mom's spent some time researching this.

    I know so little about my ancestry that I've never needed software. Instead I have a standard-sized piece of printer paper on which I drew a tree, and which I put in a photo album.

    I've seen a database of the recipients of Great Patriotic War orders (not medals). They've got scans of hand-written citations. It actually says there what this or that order was given for.

    I remember reading that the raw data of the 1897 census of the Russian Empire only survived for one or two governorates. Outside of those, only officially published summaries are available, and those are useless for genealogy.

    I think that within the Russian empire the recording of all births started much later. I’m assuming the 19th century, though I don’t know for sure.

    They have regular censuses (ревизии) since Peter I. I have an acquaintance who could have dug down as long ago as the end of the 17th century. And they weren’t nobility, just mere peasants. Though you won’t know much from those censuses, just names, age, family, and some other basic info.

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  • @Glossy
    Anatoly has said that his parents are scientists. Lots of scientists of many backgrounds, including ethnic Russians, left the former USSR in the 1990s to work at Western universities. This was because the Yeltsin-oligarchic regime didn't pay them salaries and didn't care about science.

    One of my childhood friends was an ethnically-Russian son of biologists who ended up in the West for this reason.

    I think Nina "Byzantina" of Twitter fame is of that background too.

    Anatoly has said that his parents are scientists.

    But as it always happened in the Soviet wonderland a great deal of scientists were Jews (surpirsing for a country with “state anti-Semitism”, heh). So I have had some justification for my suspicion. Though as I said a quarter of emigres must be indeed Russians. Most didn’t emigrate, though, even because of Yeltsin. So people mostly hear names like Brin or Geim, just to name few.

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  • @German_reader
    I thought Denisovan DNA turned up only in some Asian populations like Tibetans, not in Russians...and some Neanderthal ancestry is found in all non-Africans, isn't it?
    But then I don't really understand how those DNA tests work anyway and how they come up with those percentages (don't intend to take one myself anyway).

    I had been led to believe that White Europeans and East Asians were meant to have 2-5% Neanderthal ancestry. I had been led to believe that DNA tests could show this as well as Denisovan ancestry. If they can’t, then the tests aren’t very effective.
    This is one reason I’m not going to take the test.
    Also, AK is categorised as being 0.2% East Asian and <0.1% Oceanic ( Aborigine ? Ainu ? ). If they can't categorise his Neanderthal ancestry, how are they likely to be right on this ?

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  • I actually thought you were 1/4 laz, so I was confused why you didn’t substitute georgian in for kebab. But does dagestani really count for kebab, since they themselves have high amounts of northern euro descent and distinct caucasian component from the middle eastern component? I mean, even on the 23 and me only part of that ancestry gets mapped to middle eastern.

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  • I haven’t taken the test and it’s unlikely I’ll do it just for a reason that all my paternal ancestors came from a region which have one of the highest proportion of R1a, so the likeliest chance I have it either. Unlikely I will know something new with a test. Do we turn out to be distant relatives then, he? VERY distant, though.

    Just a side note. We have had a lot of arguments and we’ve trolled each other a lot and I disagree with you in about half of things, but I have always had a positive view on you, otherwise I wouldn’t read and comment. So you would be wrong if you thought I’m your adversary or even enemy. I just like arguing just for the fun of it.

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    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    23andme isn't just ancestry, it gives health reports as well (or did: The FDA decided peons couldn't be trusted with it and told 23andme to stop doing it. Though as I recall that decision has recently been reversed).

    Anyhow, the people who had 23andme done before that ruling kept their health reports, and I have to say their assessments are actually remarkably accurate and correlate to what we know of family medical history very well.

    Thank you for clarifying your intentions. Realistically speaking, it is impossible for any minimally independent-minded person to find someone they agree with 100% or even close. The best we can do is triangulate.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.