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    It is one of the great ironies that the United States, a land mass protected by two broad oceans while also benefitting from the world’s largest economy and most powerful military, persists in viewing itself as a potential victim, vulnerable and surrounded by enemies. In reality, there are only two significant potential threats to the...
  • Philip – a well documented article but the premise is dead wrong.

    The single greatest “threat” to America is not located outside the beltway: it isn’t Russia, China, international terrorism or even Saudi Arabia. The single greatest threat to America are the war-mongering Neo Cons who dominate both major political parties, and all major institutions of the military industrial state: the Pentagon, the State Department, virtually all national intelligence agencies etc.

    THEY are the ones aligning America with questionable jihadist groups, and nations. THEY are the ones advocating for more war, bigger budgets, weapons and destruction – globally. THEY are the ones rallying for Empire, including 800 military bases outside the USA. THEY are the leading supplier of weapons, bombs, bullets, tanks, fighter planes, missiles, etc. to the world. THEY are the ones rooting for war with Russia and/or North Korea (may be China?) or a combination thereof. THEY are the ones advocating an expansion of NATO – sure to cause WW3 sooner or later. ALL of which jeopardize America’s national interests and security – not to mention the rest of the globe.

    Sure there are other “threats” or possibilities. But the greatest danger is from within. That is surely the greatest irony here.

    Look in the mirror please.

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  • @Sparkon
    How does a 157 ton airplane destroy a 500,000 ton skyscraper?

    Donald Trump on September 11, 2001:


    "The World Trade Center was always known as a very very strong building. Don’t forget that took a big bomb in the basement (1993). Now, the basement is the most vulnerable place because that’s your foundation and it withstood that...

    The building was standing solid and half of the columns were blown out. This was an unbelievably powerful building...the reason the World Trade Center had such narrow windows is that in between all the windows, you had the steel on the outside, the steel on the outside of the building.

    That’s why when I first looked – and you had these big heavy I-beams. When I first looked at it, I couldn’t believe it, because there was a hole in the steel and this is steel that was, you remember the width of the windows of the World Trade Center folks. I think you know if you were ever up there, they were quite narrow and in between was this heavy steel.

    I said how could a plane, even a plane, even a 767 or 747 or whatever it might have been, how could it possibly go through this steel? I happen to think that they had not only a plane but they had bombs that exploded almost simultaneously, because I just can’t imagine anything being able to go through that wall.

    Right. I just think that there was a plane with more than just fuel..."
     

    Trump was one of the first who said only explosives...

    Two days later on September 13, 2001, Mr. Trump was already singing a different tune, apparently after having undergone a rather rapid epiphany, or perhaps having gotten "the word."

    When asked by a German interviewer how two Boeings could destroy the WTC, Donald Trump was able now to imagine something going through that steel wall, after all:


    "Um, well, it's tremendous power, and it's tremendous heat...the tremendous amounts of fuel that was dumped on the building, and sixteen hundred degree temperature. I guess that was more than anything could take, no matter what."
     
    Donald Trump's complicated and controversial history with 9/11

    Q: So how does an airplane fly through a steel wall?
    A: The same way Spiderman flew around NYC, or Maj. Kong rode the bomb.

    New York Times
    By Bill CARTER
    JAN. 13, 2000

    CBS Is Divided Over the Use Of False Images In Broadcasts


    The CBS decision to use a new form of technology that allows electronically created images to replace actual structures had stirred a debate inside CBS News and today -- at news conference attended by Andrew Heyward, the president of CBS News, and Leslie Moonves, the president of CBS Television -- it was clear the debate was not over.
    [...]
    He said that he understood the argument against the use of the technology -- which is widely employed in sports and some entertainment shows -- on news programs. The danger is ''that it looks too real and therefore it's wrong or potentially wrong,'' he said. ''I certainly agree it's potentially subject to abuse.''

    He noted that advances in computer-generated techniques had made things like missiles hitting Baghdad and airplanes crashing look so real that it was incumbent on networks to underscore that these were not real images.
     

    Let the viewer beware.

    Cont. How does a man with an axe bring down 1000 ton tree? Or any other equally fatuous formulation equating to your rhetoric.

    Get a grip. It was about heat weakening already damaged structures and there being thousands of tons weight above which depended on those structures for support. Why do you think WTC2 came down after a much shorter interval from the impact than WTC1? There is only one sensible answer.

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  • @Sparkon
    How does a 157 ton airplane destroy a 500,000 ton skyscraper?

    Donald Trump on September 11, 2001:


    "The World Trade Center was always known as a very very strong building. Don’t forget that took a big bomb in the basement (1993). Now, the basement is the most vulnerable place because that’s your foundation and it withstood that...

    The building was standing solid and half of the columns were blown out. This was an unbelievably powerful building...the reason the World Trade Center had such narrow windows is that in between all the windows, you had the steel on the outside, the steel on the outside of the building.

    That’s why when I first looked – and you had these big heavy I-beams. When I first looked at it, I couldn’t believe it, because there was a hole in the steel and this is steel that was, you remember the width of the windows of the World Trade Center folks. I think you know if you were ever up there, they were quite narrow and in between was this heavy steel.

    I said how could a plane, even a plane, even a 767 or 747 or whatever it might have been, how could it possibly go through this steel? I happen to think that they had not only a plane but they had bombs that exploded almost simultaneously, because I just can’t imagine anything being able to go through that wall.

    Right. I just think that there was a plane with more than just fuel..."
     

    Trump was one of the first who said only explosives...

    Two days later on September 13, 2001, Mr. Trump was already singing a different tune, apparently after having undergone a rather rapid epiphany, or perhaps having gotten "the word."

    When asked by a German interviewer how two Boeings could destroy the WTC, Donald Trump was able now to imagine something going through that steel wall, after all:


    "Um, well, it's tremendous power, and it's tremendous heat...the tremendous amounts of fuel that was dumped on the building, and sixteen hundred degree temperature. I guess that was more than anything could take, no matter what."
     
    Donald Trump's complicated and controversial history with 9/11

    Q: So how does an airplane fly through a steel wall?
    A: The same way Spiderman flew around NYC, or Maj. Kong rode the bomb.

    New York Times
    By Bill CARTER
    JAN. 13, 2000

    CBS Is Divided Over the Use Of False Images In Broadcasts


    The CBS decision to use a new form of technology that allows electronically created images to replace actual structures had stirred a debate inside CBS News and today -- at news conference attended by Andrew Heyward, the president of CBS News, and Leslie Moonves, the president of CBS Television -- it was clear the debate was not over.
    [...]
    He said that he understood the argument against the use of the technology -- which is widely employed in sports and some entertainment shows -- on news programs. The danger is ''that it looks too real and therefore it's wrong or potentially wrong,'' he said. ''I certainly agree it's potentially subject to abuse.''

    He noted that advances in computer-generated techniques had made things like missiles hitting Baghdad and airplanes crashing look so real that it was incumbent on networks to underscore that these were not real images.
     

    Let the viewer beware.

    It really is the last resort of the weak ego that can’t stand to be seen as wrong to cite developer Trump, with just a good layman’s knowledge of structiral engineering matters, as some sort of relevant witness. For all you know the quite likely scenario was that Trump had heard that Robertson had actually remembered the B25 crashing into the Empire State building and planned for the WTC buildings to withstand the impact of a large plane. If so, it would be natural for someone who speaks before he thinks to suppose that the planes must have carried explosives and to blurt out his oral equivalent of a Tweet.

    And by the way do you want to stick with your nonsensical opening gambit? How about “how does a 5 ton torpedo destroy a 70,000 ton capital ship?

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  • @NoseytheDuke
    Good idea Wiz, why would anyone trust their own eyes when they could instead trust a few shills with some framed paper on the wall. Perhaps it's some sort of lurid attraction that you have for academic types who wear tweed, who knows?

    There really should be an entirely new category of idiocy created just for you, I would suggest that it be called The Wizard of Idiocy. Any chance Ron Unz would allow a name change for you?

    BTW, Only recently you were advocating the nonsense theory that the buildings were brought down by heated aluminium coming into contact with water, what happened to change your mind?

    Yours is not merely a grand idiocy but a flexible grand idiocy too.

    What about *the* structural engineer for the WTC structures using the latest lightweight steel and spray on fire resistance instead of concrete who noted, more than incidentally, that it was the architects who were responsible for fire safety and didn’t pretend that there was anything but weight of building above on fire weakened steel that brought the buildings down? (And note that WTC2 which had 25 floors weight above the impact came down much quicker than WTC1 with only 11 floors above the impact).

    As to the explosive qualities of aluminium and water I did not advocate it as the way the towers were brought down but drew attention to it as plausibly explaining or contributing to more than one alleged matter thought to require explanation. One was sounds described as like explosions which are also explicable as the sounds of suddenly buckling steel members. It remains a plausible contributing explanation. Another was the destruction of critical parts of the structure and it remains a plausible contributing though not necessary causal element for that.

    It seems pretty clear that the beauty of WTC’s vast open lettable spaces including perhaps 3 or more extra floors achieved after NY regulations were changed (though I understand the Port Authority didn’t observe the new ones as such) was achieved at the unforseen risk of fires able to weaken critical parts of the steel structures including the lightweight floors and joists which held vertical elements together. And that is perhaps understandable because a typical fire in a high rise building is not started by large quantities of aviation fuel burning after a plane has destroyed a substantial part of the main supporting structures and substantially damaged and cut through several floors.

    The more that silly people – blowhards but with weak egos who can’t stand being wrong and seen to be so – try to boost their hopeless arguments the more obvious it is that the only sinister elements still worth considering are possible finance from Saudi royal connections and possible Israeli knowledge. I am about to point out how pathetic it makes a truther sound to bring up Trump’s expression of incredulity on the day – so that he was obviously speculating that the planes carried explosives – and his changed view after he had had a chance to talk to experts.

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  • @Priss Factor
    US foreign policy is simple.

    Zionist Emperor goes thumbs up or thumbs down on whatever nation based on his own interests.

    That's about it.

    Unless you want to call Theodore Roosevelt and his predecessor McKinley a Zionist, there’s something wrong with this analysis.

    America with or without Zionist influence would always have been an imperialist power. Trouble is, the American people, like Mark Twain, are “opposed to having the eagle put its talons on any other land,” especially when that means spending American blood and treasure in an endless torrent.

    Thus the big challenge has always been to find a justification for foreign wars: hence the Maine, the Lusitania, Pearl Harbor, the Gulf of Tonkin, the sinking of the Liberty (failed), 9/11, Saddam’s nukes, Assad’s Sarin gas attacks.

    No American President has refused to go along, with the alleged exception of Kennedy.

    Trouble now, is convincing folks of the validity of the latest bogus attack on America or some bunch of terrorists the US is currently backing to do its dirty work. So now we have a new line of persuasion: it’s the “Victoria Nuland made us do it” and similar nonsense. We did it because the President couldn’t help it. Pathetic.

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  • @Wizard of Oz
    Compared with the anonymous blog commenter Paul's inferences I prefer the inferences of MIT engineering professors and the actual structural engineer for WTC from what could be seen and, no doubt, from any reported observations of noises by some firemen (who were apparently able to locate the sounds with their ears and escape the 10 second or so collapse). Why don't you?

    Good idea Wiz, why would anyone trust their own eyes when they could instead trust a few shills with some framed paper on the wall. Perhaps it’s some sort of lurid attraction that you have for academic types who wear tweed, who knows?

    There really should be an entirely new category of idiocy created just for you, I would suggest that it be called The Wizard of Idiocy. Any chance Ron Unz would allow a name change for you?

    BTW, Only recently you were advocating the nonsense theory that the buildings were brought down by heated aluminium coming into contact with water, what happened to change your mind?

    Yours is not merely a grand idiocy but a flexible grand idiocy too.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    What about *the* structural engineer for the WTC structures using the latest lightweight steel and spray on fire resistance instead of concrete who noted, more than incidentally, that it was the architects who were responsible for fire safety and didn't pretend that there was anything but weight of building above on fire weakened steel that brought the buildings down? (And note that WTC2 which had 25 floors weight above the impact came down much quicker than WTC1 with only 11 floors above the impact).

    As to the explosive qualities of aluminium and water I did not advocate it as the way the towers were brought down but drew attention to it as plausibly explaining or contributing to more than one alleged matter thought to require explanation. One was sounds described as like explosions which are also explicable as the sounds of suddenly buckling steel members. It remains a plausible contributing explanation. Another was the destruction of critical parts of the structure and it remains a plausible contributing though not necessary causal element for that.

    It seems pretty clear that the beauty of WTC's vast open lettable spaces including perhaps 3 or more extra floors achieved after NY regulations were changed (though I understand the Port Authority didn't observe the new ones as such) was achieved at the unforseen risk of fires able to weaken critical parts of the steel structures including the lightweight floors and joists which held vertical elements together. And that is perhaps understandable because a typical fire in a high rise building is not started by large quantities of aviation fuel burning after a plane has destroyed a substantial part of the main supporting structures and substantially damaged and cut through several floors.

    The more that silly people - blowhards but with weak egos who can't stand being wrong and seen to be so - try to boost their hopeless arguments the more obvious it is that the only sinister elements still worth considering are possible finance from Saudi royal connections and possible Israeli knowledge. I am about to point out how pathetic it makes a truther sound to bring up Trump's expression of incredulity on the day - so that he was obviously speculating that the planes carried explosives - and his changed view after he had had a chance to talk to experts.

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • How does a 157 ton airplane destroy a 500,000 ton skyscraper?

    Donald Trump on September 11, 2001:

    “The World Trade Center was always known as a very very strong building. Don’t forget that took a big bomb in the basement (1993). Now, the basement is the most vulnerable place because that’s your foundation and it withstood that…

    The building was standing solid and half of the columns were blown out. This was an unbelievably powerful building…the reason the World Trade Center had such narrow windows is that in between all the windows, you had the steel on the outside, the steel on the outside of the building.

    That’s why when I first looked – and you had these big heavy I-beams. When I first looked at it, I couldn’t believe it, because there was a hole in the steel and this is steel that was, you remember the width of the windows of the World Trade Center folks. I think you know if you were ever up there, they were quite narrow and in between was this heavy steel.

    I said how could a plane, even a plane, even a 767 or 747 or whatever it might have been, how could it possibly go through this steel? I happen to think that they had not only a plane but they had bombs that exploded almost simultaneously, because I just can’t imagine anything being able to go through that wall.

    Right. I just think that there was a plane with more than just fuel…”

    Trump was one of the first who said only explosives…

    Two days later on September 13, 2001, Mr. Trump was already singing a different tune, apparently after having undergone a rather rapid epiphany, or perhaps having gotten “the word.”

    When asked by a German interviewer how two Boeings could destroy the WTC, Donald Trump was able now to imagine something going through that steel wall, after all:

    “Um, well, it’s tremendous power, and it’s tremendous heat…the tremendous amounts of fuel that was dumped on the building, and sixteen hundred degree temperature. I guess that was more than anything could take, no matter what.”

    Donald Trump’s complicated and controversial history with 9/11

    Q: So how does an airplane fly through a steel wall?
    A: The same way Spiderman flew around NYC, or Maj. Kong rode the bomb.

    New York Times
    By Bill CARTER
    JAN. 13, 2000

    CBS Is Divided Over the Use Of False Images In Broadcasts

    The CBS decision to use a new form of technology that allows electronically created images to replace actual structures had stirred a debate inside CBS News and today — at news conference attended by Andrew Heyward, the president of CBS News, and Leslie Moonves, the president of CBS Television — it was clear the debate was not over.
    [...]
    He said that he understood the argument against the use of the technology — which is widely employed in sports and some entertainment shows — on news programs. The danger is ”that it looks too real and therefore it’s wrong or potentially wrong,” he said. ”I certainly agree it’s potentially subject to abuse.”

    He noted that advances in computer-generated techniques had made things like missiles hitting Baghdad and airplanes crashing look so real that it was incumbent on networks to underscore that these were not real images.

    Let the viewer beware.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    It really is the last resort of the weak ego that can't stand to be seen as wrong to cite developer Trump, with just a good layman's knowledge of structiral engineering matters, as some sort of relevant witness. For all you know the quite likely scenario was that Trump had heard that Robertson had actually remembered the B25 crashing into the Empire State building and planned for the WTC buildings to withstand the impact of a large plane. If so, it would be natural for someone who speaks before he thinks to suppose that the planes must have carried explosives and to blurt out his oral equivalent of a Tweet.

    And by the way do you want to stick with your nonsensical opening gambit? How about "how does a 5 ton torpedo destroy a 70,000 ton capital ship?

    , @Wizard of Oz
    Cont. How does a man with an axe bring down 1000 ton tree? Or any other equally fatuous formulation equating to your rhetoric.

    Get a grip. It was about heat weakening already damaged structures and there being thousands of tons weight above which depended on those structures for support. Why do you think WTC2 came down after a much shorter interval from the impact than WTC1? There is only one sensible answer.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Paul2
    Thanks. I have looked at it. Unfortunately I do not understand what this is supposed to tell me. Sorry.

    Also ask yourself why WTC2 came down first though hit later. It was of course because the weight of the floors above the weakened crash levels was approx twice as heavy as for WTC 1. It makes the demoition story look increasingly redendant to be polite.
    BTW have you considered the absurdity of the “lots of explosions” stories if translated into a demolition theory? Even supposing demolition charges placed at the respective crash levels by some extraordonarily precise planning why would there be more than one major explosion per building? I daresay the buckling of steel members could make a rata-tat-tat sound as the buildings fell….

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  • @Paul2
    Thanks. I have looked at it. Unfortunately I do not understand what this is supposed to tell me. Sorry.

    For starters that the people with the expertise and the motive to look at the apparent fact of two planes hitting the buildings, destroying large parts of the tube structural supports on ine side, sliding through the light weak floors and famous vast open lettable spaces of the WTC buildings till they had brought very hot fires to the heart of the building and to say “that’s very odd, that can’t be happening by weakening and buckling structures with 11 to 24 floors’ weight above them, there must be a demolition charge”DID NOT DO SO. On the contrary Robertson the structural engineer took pride in his attention to detail by planning for an aircraft strike but virtually admitted he hadn’t thought of fire from such a strike and its weakening effects on the lightweight steel floors and trusses.
    Amongst other pertinent details were that it wasn’t just lightweight steel structures replacing concrete which had done a great job protecting the Empire State Building when struck by a B 25 but the contemporary spray on fire retardant was easily knocked off or removed by workmen and not replaced.

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  • @NoseytheDuke
    Paul very generously replied to you in detail and explained to you that anyone can observe squibs (explosions) systematically going off down the sides of the buildings ahead of the collapses (actually disintegrations) and there is also video of the accounts of several first-responder firefighters confirming it yet you ignore this and your response appears to be such that you are asking him to disbelieve his own eyes.

    Perhaps it is not an open mind that you require but a vast, empty and open space of a mind, much like your own.

    Compared with the anonymous blog commenter Paul’s inferences I prefer the inferences of MIT engineering professors and the actual structural engineer for WTC from what could be seen and, no doubt, from any reported observations of noises by some firemen (who were apparently able to locate the sounds with their ears and escape the 10 second or so collapse). Why don’t you?

    Read More
    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    Good idea Wiz, why would anyone trust their own eyes when they could instead trust a few shills with some framed paper on the wall. Perhaps it's some sort of lurid attraction that you have for academic types who wear tweed, who knows?

    There really should be an entirely new category of idiocy created just for you, I would suggest that it be called The Wizard of Idiocy. Any chance Ron Unz would allow a name change for you?

    BTW, Only recently you were advocating the nonsense theory that the buildings were brought down by heated aluminium coming into contact with water, what happened to change your mind?

    Yours is not merely a grand idiocy but a flexible grand idiocy too.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • You are being a weasel.

    Rich, coming from the poster with a record-breaking number of weasel comments.

    You made the claim that ADL “actually coined the phrase ‘Diversity Is Our Strength” and believe it to be true without having any evidence to back it up. Where is your proof?

    Not sure if you missed it, but the source of my statement is something that I provided already in comment #221. Here it is, again:

    For some time, the ADL has promoted the slogan “Diversity is Our Strength.” In keeping with this motto, which it claims to have invented, the ADL has devoted effort and resources to persuading Americans — especially younger Americans — to welcome and embrace ever more social, cultural and racial “diversity.” /17 – Mark Weber, Director of the Institute for Historical Review

    http://ihr.org/other/anti-semitism-why-does-it-exist-dec-2013

    Now, the citation for Mark Weber’s claim is contained in footnote 17:

    17. ADL On the Frontline (New York), Summer 1997, p. 8. This issue of the ADL bulletin also noted with some pride that President Clinton, in his Feb. 1997 “State of the Union” address, had given an unexpected boost to what it called the “ADL tag line.” In that address, Clinton said: “My fellow Americans, we must never, ever believe that our diversity is a weakness. It is our greatest strength.”

    Not sure if you subscribe to the ADL On the Frontline, but if you do, perhaps you could tell us if the contents on page 8 are consistent with Mark Weber’s claim.

    If you want to rephrase and state that it is your mere opinion on the matter, and you do not know for certain, that would be a step in the right direction.

    I don’t want to rephrase anything I wrote. And, going forward, a step in the right direction would be for you to ease up on “the weasel” accusations, ok?

    Remember, it was one study from several years ago. Have similar studies been conducted in the United States?

    I don’t need to see no more ‘stinken studies to know that diversity is what pulls nations apart, not bring them together. The evidence is ample enough for those who have eyes to see. Look at all the no-go zones in Sweden, Germany, Britain, France, Detroit, Chicago, LA, etc., etc., etc. Yet, for some reason, you still need to see the results of more studies? I wonder why?

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  • @Wizard of Oz
    Have a look at #250. You seem to have something of an open mind so I invite your attention.

    Paul very generously replied to you in detail and explained to you that anyone can observe squibs (explosions) systematically going off down the sides of the buildings ahead of the collapses (actually disintegrations) and there is also video of the accounts of several first-responder firefighters confirming it yet you ignore this and your response appears to be such that you are asking him to disbelieve his own eyes.

    Perhaps it is not an open mind that you require but a vast, empty and open space of a mind, much like your own.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    Compared with the anonymous blog commenter Paul's inferences I prefer the inferences of MIT engineering professors and the actual structural engineer for WTC from what could be seen and, no doubt, from any reported observations of noises by some firemen (who were apparently able to locate the sounds with their ears and escape the 10 second or so collapse). Why don't you?
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Wizard of Oz
    Have a look at #250. You seem to have something of an open mind so I invite your attention.

    Thanks. I have looked at it. Unfortunately I do not understand what this is supposed to tell me. Sorry.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    For starters that the people with the expertise and the motive to look at the apparent fact of two planes hitting the buildings, destroying large parts of the tube structural supports on ine side, sliding through the light weak floors and famous vast open lettable spaces of the WTC buildings till they had brought very hot fires to the heart of the building and to say "that's very odd, that can't be happening by weakening and buckling structures with 11 to 24 floors' weight above them, there must be a demolition charge"DID NOT DO SO. On the contrary Robertson the structural engineer took pride in his attention to detail by planning for an aircraft strike but virtually admitted he hadn't thought of fire from such a strike and its weakening effects on the lightweight steel floors and trusses.
    Amongst other pertinent details were that it wasn't just lightweight steel structures replacing concrete which had done a great job protecting the Empire State Building when struck by a B 25 but the contemporary spray on fire retardant was easily knocked off or removed by workmen and not replaced.
    , @Wizard of Oz
    Also ask yourself why WTC2 came down first though hit later. It was of course because the weight of the floors above the weakened crash levels was approx twice as heavy as for WTC 1. It makes the demoition story look increasingly redendant to be polite.
    BTW have you considered the absurdity of the "lots of explosions" stories if translated into a demolition theory? Even supposing demolition charges placed at the respective crash levels by some extraordonarily precise planning why would there be more than one major explosion per building? I daresay the buckling of steel members could make a rata-tat-tat sound as the buildings fell....
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • You are being a weasel. You made the claim that ADL “actually coined the phrase ‘Diversity Is Our Strength” and believe it to be true without having any evidence to back it up. Where is your proof?

    If you want to rephrase and state that it is your mere opinion on the matter, and you do not know for certain, that would be a step in the right direction.

    “But with respect to your argument that Putnam says the challenges are short-term in nature and that they may be overcome in the long-run, here are some interesting facts undermining that argument…”

    That was Putnam’s argument, not my argument. I was merely quoting him about how people are mischaracterizing his work.

    “here are some interesting facts undermining that argument…”

    In the link you provided, Putnam offered context –> His paper argues strongly that the negative effects of diversity can be remedied, and says history suggests that ethnic diversity may eventually fade as a sharp line of social demarcation. “It would be unfortunate if a politically correct progressivism were to deny the reality of the challenge to social solidarity posed by diversity,” he writes in the new report. “It would be equally unfortunate if an ahistorical and ethnocentric conservatism were to deny that addressing that challenge is both feasible and desirable.”

    Remember, it was one study from several years ago. Have similar studies been conducted in the United States?

    “And here’s an excerpt from “Greater diversity equals more misery” that further expands on that last point…”

    You linked to a prominent conservative who already has her mind made up on this topic. She said ” To sum up, a scientist-cum-policy wonk “uncovers” patterns of co-existence among human beings that are as old as the hills. Greater diversity equals more misery. So, does he respect these age-old peaceful preferences? No.”

    She stated that a broad conclusion was completely true (greater diversity equals more misery) and then argued how a researcher was decidedly wrong for trying to deny something obvious.

    Again, you are being a weasel. You made the claim that ADL “actually coined the phrase ‘Diversity Is Our Strength” and believe it to be true without having any evidence to back it up. Where is your proof?

    If you want to rephrase and state that it is your mere opinion on the matter, and you do not know for certain, that would be a step in the right direction.

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  • @Corvinus
    Let's get back to this statement you made--“You, like most Americans, were unaware the ADL actually coined the phrase “Diversity is Our Strength.”

    What additional evidence do you have that supports their claim?

    Regarding the Putnam Study--which doesn't show up on your link at all--the author said that ‘in the short term, he writes, there are clearly challenges, but over the long haul, he argues that diversity has a range of benefits for a society, and that the fragmentation and distrust can be overcome. It’s not an easy process, but in the end it’s “well worth the effort. ‘” Putnam cites the integration of institutions like the U.S. Army as proof that diversity can work. Putnam’s brief contends that his 2007 paper has been “twisted” to make a case against race-conscious admissions, asserting that, on the contrary, his “extensive research and experience confirm the substantial benefits of diversity, including racial and ethnic diversity, to our society.”

    Source –> http://www.chronicle.com/blogs/percolator/robert-putnam-says-his-research-was-twisted/30357

    The Gothenburg University "study" was actually a poll taken in Sweden which is a relatively homogenous nation. The researchers, however, noted that social cohesion remains strong in the nation, and "[w]hen it comes to the relationship with groups other than their own, people feel the greatest relationship with those who have a completely different education, but most also feel relatively large relationships with those who have a completely different economy, completely different political opinions or another sexual orientation. The groups that people feel least associated with are those who have a completely different ethnic background, another religion, a completely different lifestyle, and those who come from another culture. Here too, changes over time are very small."

    Regarding the Putnam Study–which doesn’t show up on your link at all–the author said that ‘in the short term, he writes, there are clearly challenges, but over the long haul, he argues that diversity has a range of benefits for a society, and that the fragmentation and distrust can be overcome.

    Unfortunately, it looks as though you have to have a subscription to the FT to get access to the article.

    But with respect to your argument that Putnam says the challenges are short-term in nature and that they may be overcome in the long-run, here are some interesting facts undermining that argument:

    His findings on the downsides of diversity have also posed a challenge for Putnam, a liberal academic whose own values put him squarely in the pro-diversity camp. Suddenly finding himself the bearer of bad news, Putnam has struggled with how to present his work. He gathered the initial raw data in 2000 and issued a press release the following year outlining the results. He then spent several years testing other possible explanations.

    When he finally published a detailed scholarly analysis in June [2007] in the journal Scandinavian Political Studies, he faced criticism for straying from data into advocacy. His paper argues strongly that the negative effects of diversity can be remedied, and says history suggests that ethnic diversity may eventually fade as a sharp line of social demarcation.

    “Having aligned himself with the central planners intent on sustaining such social engineering, Putnam concludes the facts with a stern pep talk,” wrote conservative commentator Ilana Mercer, in a recent Orange County Register op-ed titled “Greater diversity equals more misery.”

    http://archive.boston.com/news/globe/ideas/articles/2007/08/05/the_downside_of_diversity/

    And here’s an excerpt from “Greater diversity equals more misery” that further expands on that last point:

    Like many social scientists living in symbiosis with statists, Putnam doesn’t confine himself to observations; he offers recommendations. Having aligned himself with central planners intent on sustaining such social engineering, Putnam concludes the gloomy facts with a stern pep talk. Take the lumps of diversity without complaining! Mass immigration and the attendant diversity are, overall, good for the collective. (Didn’t he just spend five years demonstrating the opposite?)

    To sum up, a scientist-cum-policy wonk “uncovers” patterns of co-existence among human beings that are as old as the hills. Greater diversity equals more misery. So, does he respect these age-old peaceful preferences? No.

    Instead, with all the sympathy of a social planner, he reaffirms the glories of forced integration and recommends dismantling old identities and constructing new, “shared” ones. Putnam pelts the many thousands of miserable individuals he interviewed with utilitarian platitudes: Cheap Tyson chicken and colorful cuisine will, in time, ameliorate their misery.

    http://www.ocregister.com/2007/07/22/ilana-mercer-greater-diversity-equals-more-misery/

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  • @geokat62

    Third, you ASSUME that the ADL is working to cause American disunity.
     
    I ASSUME that, notwithstanding the results of these recent groundbreaking studies, the ADL will continue to promote its tag line "Diversity Is Our Strength":

    1) An excerpt from Study paints bleak picture of ethnic diversity:

    A bleak picture of the corrosive effects of ethnic diversity has been revealed in research by Harvard University’s Robert Putnam, one of the world’s most influential political scientists.

    His research shows that the more diverse a community is, the less likely its inhabitants are to trust anyone – from their next-door neighbour to the mayor.

    https://www.ft.com/content/c4ac4a74-570f-11db-9110-0000779e2340
     
    2) An excerpt from New research from Gothenburg University on solidarity in Sweden backs up evidence from previous studies that ethnic diversity is bad for social cohesion.:

    Surveying 9,800 randomly selected people, the [Gothenburg] university’s SOM Institute looked at the degree to which people in Sweden are able to feel a connection with people who differ from themselves...

    The SOM Institute’s findings that people feel less solidarity with ethnic groups other than their own add to a growing body of research showing ethnic diversity has a negative effect on societal cohesion.

    U.S. researchers who in 2013 showed homogeneous or highly segregated neighbourhoods are almost always more cohesive than those which are diverse, reported that diversity prevents “the formation of dense interpersonal networks that are necessary to promote sense of community”.

    Similarly, 2014 research from Australia found diversity had a negative impact on social cohesion and caused residents to “hunker down”, avoiding engagement with the community.

    Researchers said their work supports the theory of Robert Putnam, whose U.S. study yielded similar results, that ethnic diversity erodes trust.

    And a 2014 study by the University of North Carolina which examined regions across Europe, found that “an increase in immigration is related to a decrease in social trust”.

    http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/05/29/study-ethnic-diversity-bad-sweden/
     

    Dear, I see that you are once again not being truthful. I was NOT convinced from the beginning about WMD’s in Iraq.
     
    My apologies, you are right. You did state the following in another thread:

    Actually, I was quite skeptical from the start on that reporting. I had to be convinced by more facts.
     
    So, while I readily admit I forgot you had said this, there's a big difference between forgetting what someone said and purposely lying about it... so drop the "once again" nonsense.

    btw - anyone dubious about your gender should take note of the use of the term "Dear"... a dead giveaway.

    Let’s get back to this statement you made–“You, like most Americans, were unaware the ADL actually coined the phrase “Diversity is Our Strength.”

    What additional evidence do you have that supports their claim?

    Regarding the Putnam Study–which doesn’t show up on your link at all–the author said that ‘in the short term, he writes, there are clearly challenges, but over the long haul, he argues that diversity has a range of benefits for a society, and that the fragmentation and distrust can be overcome. It’s not an easy process, but in the end it’s “well worth the effort. ‘” Putnam cites the integration of institutions like the U.S. Army as proof that diversity can work. Putnam’s brief contends that his 2007 paper has been “twisted” to make a case against race-conscious admissions, asserting that, on the contrary, his “extensive research and experience confirm the substantial benefits of diversity, including racial and ethnic diversity, to our society.”

    Source –> http://www.chronicle.com/blogs/percolator/robert-putnam-says-his-research-was-twisted/30357

    The Gothenburg University “study” was actually a poll taken in Sweden which is a relatively homogenous nation. The researchers, however, noted that social cohesion remains strong in the nation, and “[w]hen it comes to the relationship with groups other than their own, people feel the greatest relationship with those who have a completely different education, but most also feel relatively large relationships with those who have a completely different economy, completely different political opinions or another sexual orientation. The groups that people feel least associated with are those who have a completely different ethnic background, another religion, a completely different lifestyle, and those who come from another culture. Here too, changes over time are very small.”

    Read More
    • Replies: @geokat62

    Regarding the Putnam Study–which doesn’t show up on your link at all–the author said that ‘in the short term, he writes, there are clearly challenges, but over the long haul, he argues that diversity has a range of benefits for a society, and that the fragmentation and distrust can be overcome.
     
    Unfortunately, it looks as though you have to have a subscription to the FT to get access to the article.

    But with respect to your argument that Putnam says the challenges are short-term in nature and that they may be overcome in the long-run, here are some interesting facts undermining that argument:

    His findings on the downsides of diversity have also posed a challenge for Putnam, a liberal academic whose own values put him squarely in the pro-diversity camp. Suddenly finding himself the bearer of bad news, Putnam has struggled with how to present his work. He gathered the initial raw data in 2000 and issued a press release the following year outlining the results. He then spent several years testing other possible explanations.

    When he finally published a detailed scholarly analysis in June [2007] in the journal Scandinavian Political Studies, he faced criticism for straying from data into advocacy. His paper argues strongly that the negative effects of diversity can be remedied, and says history suggests that ethnic diversity may eventually fade as a sharp line of social demarcation.

    "Having aligned himself with the central planners intent on sustaining such social engineering, Putnam concludes the facts with a stern pep talk," wrote conservative commentator Ilana Mercer, in a recent Orange County Register op-ed titled "Greater diversity equals more misery."

    http://archive.boston.com/news/globe/ideas/articles/2007/08/05/the_downside_of_diversity/
     
    And here's an excerpt from "Greater diversity equals more misery" that further expands on that last point:

    Like many social scientists living in symbiosis with statists, Putnam doesn’t confine himself to observations; he offers recommendations. Having aligned himself with central planners intent on sustaining such social engineering, Putnam concludes the gloomy facts with a stern pep talk. Take the lumps of diversity without complaining! Mass immigration and the attendant diversity are, overall, good for the collective. (Didn’t he just spend five years demonstrating the opposite?)

    To sum up, a scientist-cum-policy wonk “uncovers” patterns of co-existence among human beings that are as old as the hills. Greater diversity equals more misery. So, does he respect these age-old peaceful preferences? No.

    Instead, with all the sympathy of a social planner, he reaffirms the glories of forced integration and recommends dismantling old identities and constructing new, “shared” ones. Putnam pelts the many thousands of miserable individuals he interviewed with utilitarian platitudes: Cheap Tyson chicken and colorful cuisine will, in time, ameliorate their misery.

    http://www.ocregister.com/2007/07/22/ilana-mercer-greater-diversity-equals-more-misery/
     
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Corvinus
    "While openly lobbying for one’s interests may be nothing new, as you say, doing so surreptitiously is."

    The ADL is other than secret in trying to secure their interests, as you have repeatedly noted.

    "You, like most Americans, were unaware the ADL actually coined the phrase “Diversity is Our Strength.”

    Again, the ADL CLAIMED to have coined it. Since you believe they act "surreptitiously", is not conceivable they are other than telling the truth? Moreover, what additional evidence do you have that supports their claim?

    "Now how do you think most Americans will feel if they discover the ADL knowingly promoted diversity to safeguard their own interests at the expense of American unity?"

    First, Americans have generally supported diversity in the past and currently.
    Second, Americans for the most part know that organizations are formed in part to carry out an agenda.
    Third, you ASSUME that the ADL is working to cause American disunity.

    "This is what is new. If the ADL believes in the merits of diversity so much, why do they not support diversity for the Jewish state? What is new is The Lobby now risks being exposed for its blatent hypocrisy."

    They may support the Jewish state, but they also took members of their "tribe" to task.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/27/us-anti-extremism-group-asks-israel-to-curb-rightwing-jewish-activist

    "A US-based organisation that campaigns against antisemitism has taken the unusual step of calling on the Israeli government to act against an extreme rightwing Jewish activist with “abusive, racist, inflammatory and violent” opinions. The Anti-Defamation League (ADL) has urged Israel’s attorney general to use all legal means possible against Bentzi Gopstein, the leader of Lehava – an extremist Jewish organisation that allegedly incites hatred against Arabs."

    "Oh, boy. Now I know why you were convinced Judith Miller was telling the truth about Saddam’s WMD."

    Dear, I see that you are once again not being truthful. I was NOT convinced from the beginning about WMD's in Iraq.

    Third, you ASSUME that the ADL is working to cause American disunity.

    I ASSUME that, notwithstanding the results of these recent groundbreaking studies, the ADL will continue to promote its tag line “Diversity Is Our Strength”:

    1) An excerpt from Study paints bleak picture of ethnic diversity:

    A bleak picture of the corrosive effects of ethnic diversity has been revealed in research by Harvard University’s Robert Putnam, one of the world’s most influential political scientists.

    His research shows that the more diverse a community is, the less likely its inhabitants are to trust anyone – from their next-door neighbour to the mayor.

    https://www.ft.com/content/c4ac4a74-570f-11db-9110-0000779e2340

    2) An excerpt from New research from Gothenburg University on solidarity in Sweden backs up evidence from previous studies that ethnic diversity is bad for social cohesion.:

    Surveying 9,800 randomly selected people, the [Gothenburg] university’s SOM Institute looked at the degree to which people in Sweden are able to feel a connection with people who differ from themselves…

    The SOM Institute’s findings that people feel less solidarity with ethnic groups other than their own add to a growing body of research showing ethnic diversity has a negative effect on societal cohesion.

    U.S. researchers who in 2013 showed homogeneous or highly segregated neighbourhoods are almost always more cohesive than those which are diverse, reported that diversity prevents “the formation of dense interpersonal networks that are necessary to promote sense of community”.

    Similarly, 2014 research from Australia found diversity had a negative impact on social cohesion and caused residents to “hunker down”, avoiding engagement with the community.

    Researchers said their work supports the theory of Robert Putnam, whose U.S. study yielded similar results, that ethnic diversity erodes trust.

    And a 2014 study by the University of North Carolina which examined regions across Europe, found that “an increase in immigration is related to a decrease in social trust”.

    http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/05/29/study-ethnic-diversity-bad-sweden/

    Dear, I see that you are once again not being truthful. I was NOT convinced from the beginning about WMD’s in Iraq.

    My apologies, you are right. You did state the following in another thread:

    Actually, I was quite skeptical from the start on that reporting. I had to be convinced by more facts.

    So, while I readily admit I forgot you had said this, there’s a big difference between forgetting what someone said and purposely lying about it… so drop the “once again” nonsense.

    btw – anyone dubious about your gender should take note of the use of the term “Dear”… a dead giveaway.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Corvinus
    Let's get back to this statement you made--“You, like most Americans, were unaware the ADL actually coined the phrase “Diversity is Our Strength.”

    What additional evidence do you have that supports their claim?

    Regarding the Putnam Study--which doesn't show up on your link at all--the author said that ‘in the short term, he writes, there are clearly challenges, but over the long haul, he argues that diversity has a range of benefits for a society, and that the fragmentation and distrust can be overcome. It’s not an easy process, but in the end it’s “well worth the effort. ‘” Putnam cites the integration of institutions like the U.S. Army as proof that diversity can work. Putnam’s brief contends that his 2007 paper has been “twisted” to make a case against race-conscious admissions, asserting that, on the contrary, his “extensive research and experience confirm the substantial benefits of diversity, including racial and ethnic diversity, to our society.”

    Source –> http://www.chronicle.com/blogs/percolator/robert-putnam-says-his-research-was-twisted/30357

    The Gothenburg University "study" was actually a poll taken in Sweden which is a relatively homogenous nation. The researchers, however, noted that social cohesion remains strong in the nation, and "[w]hen it comes to the relationship with groups other than their own, people feel the greatest relationship with those who have a completely different education, but most also feel relatively large relationships with those who have a completely different economy, completely different political opinions or another sexual orientation. The groups that people feel least associated with are those who have a completely different ethnic background, another religion, a completely different lifestyle, and those who come from another culture. Here too, changes over time are very small."
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @paul2
    (1) engineering and physics assumptions
    My argument turns on relatively self-explaining and simple engineering assumptions. It relies on quite simple physics. My qualification insofar is school education in physics – which is sufficient to understand the relevant questions – and a little research on the web. Something most people could do. Also I am just repeating arguments made by experts in the field.

    To explain: If a building “collapses” in constant acceleration then there is a net force driving that building downwards. The force pulling the building downwards is gravity. Normally buildings do not collapse because they are built to have a structural resistance so that there is a counterforce that can carry at least the building itself. Of course buildings have a much higher resistance because they need to be safe and comfortable to use, and in the case of the WTC they were designed to withstand plane impacts, strong winds etc.

    If there is a net force downwards then the structural resistance is less than gravity, i.e. the building cannot even carry itself.

    Even if we assume that there were damages to the upper parts of WTC 1 and WTC 2, why should suddenly (!) the lower, undamaged part of the building loose most of its structural resistance? There were no jolts so the upper part could not have “hammered” the lower part. Also the upper part would have been destroyed much earlier than the lower part and in the video footage you can see that it basically was destroyed before even reaching the lower part, or in the case of the South Tower it tilted and disintegrated in mid-air.

    Keep in mind that a building is structurally designed like a pyramid. Each floor has to be built that it can carry the whole building above it. So the lower – undamaged – parts of the towers were much much stronger than the upper parts.

    Also the lower part building was destroyed absolutely symmetrically. It was like an eraser plane going down the building. Such a “collapse” seems totally unnatural.

    And then explain the ejection of the steel hull, the squibs, the other explosions, the heat etc. You can’t appeal-to-authority away the evidence.


    In the case of WTC7:
    How should the building loose suddenly (!) all of its structural resistance? Explain that. And then in such a way that the center draws the building inwards so that it falls into a neat pile. Again, totally unnatural.


    (2) textbook demolition
    I said the collapse of WTC 7 (not 1 or 2 !) looks like a textbook controlled demolition. That is to say that is looks exactly like most of the controlled demolitions I have seen on video. Also I have seen an interview with a building demolition expert who immediately upon viewing the WTC 7 collapse stated that it was a demolition “no doubt about it”.

    But if you care to get an expert opinion, why don’t you check the site of Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth? Or you read some articles on the topic in the Journal for 9/11 studies.


    (3) plane impact points:
    This is a completely different aspect. Did the plotters know where the planes would impact?

    Well, I do not know. But if the planes were remotely controlled that might have been the case.

    Also there were very strong explosions at the impact point of the planes and on video from one of the impact points molten metal (iron or steel) can bee seen dripping down. So maybe the charges near the impact point did go off. Who knows.


    (4) vectors:
    Regarding vectors: I know what a vector is, but I do not understand what you are trying to say.


    Well, have a look at the evidence yourself. Believe what you will.

    Have a look at #250. You seem to have something of an open mind so I invite your attention.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Paul2
    Thanks. I have looked at it. Unfortunately I do not understand what this is supposed to tell me. Sorry.
    , @NoseytheDuke
    Paul very generously replied to you in detail and explained to you that anyone can observe squibs (explosions) systematically going off down the sides of the buildings ahead of the collapses (actually disintegrations) and there is also video of the accounts of several first-responder firefighters confirming it yet you ignore this and your response appears to be such that you are asking him to disbelieve his own eyes.

    Perhaps it is not an open mind that you require but a vast, empty and open space of a mind, much like your own.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Anon
    As to physics, are you familiar with the addition of vectors in old-fashioned Newtonian physics which is all that a civil or mechanical engineer needs?

    Yes, very. Which vectors are you adding (or tip-to-tailing as we used sometimes to say)?

    NB. I'm not a mech. e. and really don't know much at present about the Tower collapse.

    I was vastly oversimplifying no doubt but given confidence when I said to my old physics professor friend that it was surely a matter of calculating the joint effect of two vectors one of which was hundreds of tons weight bearing down and the other was the horizontal resultant vector from combining all the little forces around the collapse level which might have caused horizontal movement AND he did not correct me or demur. Of course it is not a central argument unless one is one of the ignorant loons who thinks the substantially vertical fall was peculiar.

    I have just been following up from Googling “what were the support structures of the World Trade Center” which proves to be a good question for avoiding the nonsense and getting to the heart of what, physically, happened.

    First I read a good piece by Deputy Fire Chief Vincent Dunn who raises not the slightest reason for being a truther. Then an excellent New Yorker piece starting with a focus on Robertson the structural engineer who designed the WTC’s almost unique structure. I now have another killer argument, right up with asking how clever plotters are going to absolutely rely for their demolition plan on planes hitting WTC1 between floors 95 and 99 and WTC2 between 78 and 85. It is this. Wouldn’t the buildings structural engineer – who actually said he had personally ensured that the design allowed for the impact of an aircraft (though apparently not for consequent fires) – be keen to raise explanations which absolved him of responsibility? He didn’t. Not even the suggestion of a doubt.

    Also of interest was Fire Chief John O’Grady’s 1976 description of buildings like the WTC built to the new 1968 performance standards (with much less concrete and more lightweight steel structures) as “combustible”. Then there was the head of the Baltimore based business Controlled Demolitions Inc (!!!) whose immediate response to seeing the planes fly into the towers on TV was to say that the towers would collapse and try to ring the Mayor to make sure no one went into the buildings.
    Then there is what appears to be a book length .pdf file by a couple of MIT professors who give no comfort to the conspiracy theorists. Still, I have Googled for “architects and engineers for 9/11 truth” and when I get a link I suppose I should see what it is that – probably unread – gives such assurance to the curious bunch of inadequates that the highly intelligent Ron Unz’s webzine’s comment threads attract.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @geokat62

    But “lobbying” for something by someone is indicative of the human race–we desire something to happen, so we try to convince people to do it. Nothing new here.
     
    While openly lobbying for one's interests may be nothing new, as you say, doing so surreptitiously is. You, like most Americans, were unaware the ADL actually coined the phrase "Diversity is Our Strength." Now how do you think most Americans will feel if they discover the ADL knowingly promoted diversity to safeguard their own interests at the expense of American unity? This is what is new. If the ADL believes in the merits of diversity so much, why do they not support diversity for the Jewish state? What is new is The Lobby now risks being exposed for its blatent hypocrisy.

    The ADL CLAIMS to have invented this motto. Is there clear, convincing evidence to back up that claim? So we truly do not know for certain.
     
    Oh, boy. Now I know why you were convinced Judith Miller was telling the truth about Saddam's WMD.

    “While openly lobbying for one’s interests may be nothing new, as you say, doing so surreptitiously is.”

    The ADL is other than secret in trying to secure their interests, as you have repeatedly noted.

    “You, like most Americans, were unaware the ADL actually coined the phrase “Diversity is Our Strength.”

    Again, the ADL CLAIMED to have coined it. Since you believe they act “surreptitiously”, is not conceivable they are other than telling the truth? Moreover, what additional evidence do you have that supports their claim?

    “Now how do you think most Americans will feel if they discover the ADL knowingly promoted diversity to safeguard their own interests at the expense of American unity?”

    First, Americans have generally supported diversity in the past and currently.
    Second, Americans for the most part know that organizations are formed in part to carry out an agenda.
    Third, you ASSUME that the ADL is working to cause American disunity.

    “This is what is new. If the ADL believes in the merits of diversity so much, why do they not support diversity for the Jewish state? What is new is The Lobby now risks being exposed for its blatent hypocrisy.”

    They may support the Jewish state, but they also took members of their “tribe” to task.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/27/us-anti-extremism-group-asks-israel-to-curb-rightwing-jewish-activist

    “A US-based organisation that campaigns against antisemitism has taken the unusual step of calling on the Israeli government to act against an extreme rightwing Jewish activist with “abusive, racist, inflammatory and violent” opinions. The Anti-Defamation League (ADL) has urged Israel’s attorney general to use all legal means possible against Bentzi Gopstein, the leader of Lehava – an extremist Jewish organisation that allegedly incites hatred against Arabs.”

    “Oh, boy. Now I know why you were convinced Judith Miller was telling the truth about Saddam’s WMD.”

    Dear, I see that you are once again not being truthful. I was NOT convinced from the beginning about WMD’s in Iraq.

    Read More
    • Replies: @geokat62

    Third, you ASSUME that the ADL is working to cause American disunity.
     
    I ASSUME that, notwithstanding the results of these recent groundbreaking studies, the ADL will continue to promote its tag line "Diversity Is Our Strength":

    1) An excerpt from Study paints bleak picture of ethnic diversity:

    A bleak picture of the corrosive effects of ethnic diversity has been revealed in research by Harvard University’s Robert Putnam, one of the world’s most influential political scientists.

    His research shows that the more diverse a community is, the less likely its inhabitants are to trust anyone – from their next-door neighbour to the mayor.

    https://www.ft.com/content/c4ac4a74-570f-11db-9110-0000779e2340
     
    2) An excerpt from New research from Gothenburg University on solidarity in Sweden backs up evidence from previous studies that ethnic diversity is bad for social cohesion.:

    Surveying 9,800 randomly selected people, the [Gothenburg] university’s SOM Institute looked at the degree to which people in Sweden are able to feel a connection with people who differ from themselves...

    The SOM Institute’s findings that people feel less solidarity with ethnic groups other than their own add to a growing body of research showing ethnic diversity has a negative effect on societal cohesion.

    U.S. researchers who in 2013 showed homogeneous or highly segregated neighbourhoods are almost always more cohesive than those which are diverse, reported that diversity prevents “the formation of dense interpersonal networks that are necessary to promote sense of community”.

    Similarly, 2014 research from Australia found diversity had a negative impact on social cohesion and caused residents to “hunker down”, avoiding engagement with the community.

    Researchers said their work supports the theory of Robert Putnam, whose U.S. study yielded similar results, that ethnic diversity erodes trust.

    And a 2014 study by the University of North Carolina which examined regions across Europe, found that “an increase in immigration is related to a decrease in social trust”.

    http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/05/29/study-ethnic-diversity-bad-sweden/
     

    Dear, I see that you are once again not being truthful. I was NOT convinced from the beginning about WMD’s in Iraq.
     
    My apologies, you are right. You did state the following in another thread:

    Actually, I was quite skeptical from the start on that reporting. I had to be convinced by more facts.
     
    So, while I readily admit I forgot you had said this, there's a big difference between forgetting what someone said and purposely lying about it... so drop the "once again" nonsense.

    btw - anyone dubious about your gender should take note of the use of the term "Dear"... a dead giveaway.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Avery
    {What is new is The Lobby now risks being exposed for its blatent hypocrisy. }

    ADL was exposed for their vile hypocrisy quite a while back.

    While they were attacking anyone and everyone for denying the Jewish Holocaust - which is fine and the right thing to do - they were not only denying the Armenian Genocide themselves, but they were actively working for the Turk denial machine in their worldwide campaign to deny the AG.
    Particularly here in the US: ADL has been very effective here in official AG denial.

    Abe Foxman's hypocrisy was too much even for a staffer: ADL's New England regional director Andrew H. Tarsy was fired (2007) when he confronted disgusting Foxman for his vile hypocrisy.

    ADL was exposed for their vile hypocrisy quite a while back.

    What you say regarding the AG is true, of course. I’ve even posted a few comments myself regarding the ADL’s nefarious efforts to ensure that a resolution recognizing the AG never gets passed by the US Congress.

    I, however, was referring to their nefarious role on immigration, and how their position on the supposed benefits of diversity from mass immigration in the US differs from their position regarding those same benefits for the JS. I was highlighting the fact that more and more people are starting to realize that this is an untenable position.

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    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Wizard of Oz
    As your argument turns almost entirely on your assumptions about engineering matters like demolitions, and on physics, would you please tell us your qualifications to be taken as authoritative on those subjects. And, specifically where do you find your "textbook controlled demolition" to be so sure it applies to the towers?

    In relation to demolitions can you point to any precedents or textbooks which justify your view that explosive charges on or about the 91st floor of such tall buildings rather than near the ground is standard or "textbook^? I think not.

    Equally to the point can you conceive of any plotter who had any stake at all in success being confident enough of the placing of the demolition charges reliably coinciding with the floors into which planes would crash in not just one but two buildingsl?

    As to physics, are you familiar with the addition of vectors in old-fashioned Newtonian physics which is all that a civil or mechanical engineer needs? Do you understand its relevance when you have thousands of tons of concrete and steel above a greatly weakened floor where the horizontal forces are comparatively minute?

    As to physics, are you familiar with the addition of vectors in old-fashioned Newtonian physics which is all that a civil or mechanical engineer needs?

    Yes, very. Which vectors are you adding (or tip-to-tailing as we used sometimes to say)?

    NB. I’m not a mech. e. and really don’t know much at present about the Tower collapse.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    I was vastly oversimplifying no doubt but given confidence when I said to my old physics professor friend that it was surely a matter of calculating the joint effect of two vectors one of which was hundreds of tons weight bearing down and the other was the horizontal resultant vector from combining all the little forces around the collapse level which might have caused horizontal movement AND he did not correct me or demur. Of course it is not a central argument unless one is one of the ignorant loons who thinks the substantially vertical fall was peculiar.

    I have just been following up from Googling "what were the support structures of the World Trade Center" which proves to be a good question for avoiding the nonsense and getting to the heart of what, physically, happened.

    First I read a good piece by Deputy Fire Chief Vincent Dunn who raises not the slightest reason for being a truther. Then an excellent New Yorker piece starting with a focus on Robertson the structural engineer who designed the WTC's almost unique structure. I now have another killer argument, right up with asking how clever plotters are going to absolutely rely for their demolition plan on planes hitting WTC1 between floors 95 and 99 and WTC2 between 78 and 85. It is this. Wouldn't the buildings structural engineer - who actually said he had personally ensured that the design allowed for the impact of an aircraft (though apparently not for consequent fires) - be keen to raise explanations which absolved him of responsibility? He didn't. Not even the suggestion of a doubt.

    Also of interest was Fire Chief John O'Grady's 1976 description of buildings like the WTC built to the new 1968 performance standards (with much less concrete and more lightweight steel structures) as "combustible". Then there was the head of the Baltimore based business Controlled Demolitions Inc (!!!) whose immediate response to seeing the planes fly into the towers on TV was to say that the towers would collapse and try to ring the Mayor to make sure no one went into the buildings.
    Then there is what appears to be a book length .pdf file by a couple of MIT professors who give no comfort to the conspiracy theorists. Still, I have Googled for "architects and engineers for 9/11 truth" and when I get a link I suppose I should see what it is that - probably unread - gives such assurance to the curious bunch of inadequates that the highly intelligent Ron Unz's webzine's comment threads attract.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @KA
    Read this sometime back . Interesting intrigueimg information about LBJ administration


    "
    HT:

    Abba Eban went to the Pentagon a weekend before the Six-Day War started and got the maps for 25 airfields in the whole Arab world and they killed them all, they bombed them all. That’s how dirty the U.S. was. They gave them maps from the Pentagon. The U.S. has been rotten. I’m sorry. It’s been rotten. http://mondoweiss.net/2013/10/insults-israel-election.html

    (HT). Helen Thomas

    Nothing particularly surprising if it is in fact true. But says nothing about Johnson and the Liberty.

    How could it be that Israel actually needed those maps from the Pentagon? It would certainly have known where all 25 air fields were. So what was being added? Perhaps not so much “maps” as U2 photographs? One can imagine the picture of Eban’s aide taking the photos to an Israeli embassy fax machine and hoping it could transmit useful detail.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @paul2
    (1) engineering and physics assumptions
    My argument turns on relatively self-explaining and simple engineering assumptions. It relies on quite simple physics. My qualification insofar is school education in physics – which is sufficient to understand the relevant questions – and a little research on the web. Something most people could do. Also I am just repeating arguments made by experts in the field.

    To explain: If a building “collapses” in constant acceleration then there is a net force driving that building downwards. The force pulling the building downwards is gravity. Normally buildings do not collapse because they are built to have a structural resistance so that there is a counterforce that can carry at least the building itself. Of course buildings have a much higher resistance because they need to be safe and comfortable to use, and in the case of the WTC they were designed to withstand plane impacts, strong winds etc.

    If there is a net force downwards then the structural resistance is less than gravity, i.e. the building cannot even carry itself.

    Even if we assume that there were damages to the upper parts of WTC 1 and WTC 2, why should suddenly (!) the lower, undamaged part of the building loose most of its structural resistance? There were no jolts so the upper part could not have “hammered” the lower part. Also the upper part would have been destroyed much earlier than the lower part and in the video footage you can see that it basically was destroyed before even reaching the lower part, or in the case of the South Tower it tilted and disintegrated in mid-air.

    Keep in mind that a building is structurally designed like a pyramid. Each floor has to be built that it can carry the whole building above it. So the lower – undamaged – parts of the towers were much much stronger than the upper parts.

    Also the lower part building was destroyed absolutely symmetrically. It was like an eraser plane going down the building. Such a “collapse” seems totally unnatural.

    And then explain the ejection of the steel hull, the squibs, the other explosions, the heat etc. You can’t appeal-to-authority away the evidence.


    In the case of WTC7:
    How should the building loose suddenly (!) all of its structural resistance? Explain that. And then in such a way that the center draws the building inwards so that it falls into a neat pile. Again, totally unnatural.


    (2) textbook demolition
    I said the collapse of WTC 7 (not 1 or 2 !) looks like a textbook controlled demolition. That is to say that is looks exactly like most of the controlled demolitions I have seen on video. Also I have seen an interview with a building demolition expert who immediately upon viewing the WTC 7 collapse stated that it was a demolition “no doubt about it”.

    But if you care to get an expert opinion, why don’t you check the site of Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth? Or you read some articles on the topic in the Journal for 9/11 studies.


    (3) plane impact points:
    This is a completely different aspect. Did the plotters know where the planes would impact?

    Well, I do not know. But if the planes were remotely controlled that might have been the case.

    Also there were very strong explosions at the impact point of the planes and on video from one of the impact points molten metal (iron or steel) can bee seen dripping down. So maybe the charges near the impact point did go off. Who knows.


    (4) vectors:
    Regarding vectors: I know what a vector is, but I do not understand what you are trying to say.


    Well, have a look at the evidence yourself. Believe what you will.

    Thanks for trying. Religion is an interesting phenomenon.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @geokat62

    But “lobbying” for something by someone is indicative of the human race–we desire something to happen, so we try to convince people to do it. Nothing new here.
     
    While openly lobbying for one's interests may be nothing new, as you say, doing so surreptitiously is. You, like most Americans, were unaware the ADL actually coined the phrase "Diversity is Our Strength." Now how do you think most Americans will feel if they discover the ADL knowingly promoted diversity to safeguard their own interests at the expense of American unity? This is what is new. If the ADL believes in the merits of diversity so much, why do they not support diversity for the Jewish state? What is new is The Lobby now risks being exposed for its blatent hypocrisy.

    The ADL CLAIMS to have invented this motto. Is there clear, convincing evidence to back up that claim? So we truly do not know for certain.
     
    Oh, boy. Now I know why you were convinced Judith Miller was telling the truth about Saddam's WMD.

    {What is new is The Lobby now risks being exposed for its blatent hypocrisy. }

    ADL was exposed for their vile hypocrisy quite a while back.

    While they were attacking anyone and everyone for denying the Jewish Holocaust – which is fine and the right thing to do – they were not only denying the Armenian Genocide themselves, but they were actively working for the Turk denial machine in their worldwide campaign to deny the AG.
    Particularly here in the US: ADL has been very effective here in official AG denial.

    Abe Foxman’s hypocrisy was too much even for a staffer: ADL’s New England regional director Andrew H. Tarsy was fired (2007) when he confronted disgusting Foxman for his vile hypocrisy.

    Read More
    • Replies: @geokat62

    ADL was exposed for their vile hypocrisy quite a while back.
     
    What you say regarding the AG is true, of course. I've even posted a few comments myself regarding the ADL's nefarious efforts to ensure that a resolution recognizing the AG never gets passed by the US Congress.

    I, however, was referring to their nefarious role on immigration, and how their position on the supposed benefits of diversity from mass immigration in the US differs from their position regarding those same benefits for the JS. I was highlighting the fact that more and more people are starting to realize that this is an untenable position.

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Corvinus
    "That may be true."

    No, it is definitively true that western nations have been diverse.

    "But was it the result of a lobby pushing mass immigration from the four corners of the world?"

    Of course not. The process of how western nations became diverse 500 to 1000 years ago is markedly different than what is occurring now. But "lobbying" for something by someone is indicative of the human race--we desire something to happen, so we try to convince people to do it. Nothing new here. Moreover, the world has become increasingly interconnected ever since Columbus made that journey in 1492, and it is other than surprising that people from around the world have moved from their homeland to a new land. Also, during the second American industrial revolution (1865-1900), American industrialists were clamoring for cheap immigrant labor. They served as the backbone to our rise as the #1 exporter of the world by 1900.

    "Now you know"

    The ADL CLAIMS to have invented this motto. Is there clear, convincing evidence to back up that claim? So we truly do not know for certain.

    "As for the churches, were they the ones pushing hardest for the passage of the 1965 Immigration Act?"

    They certainly had strong support for it.

    "The bill proposed by Celler and Hart advocated replacing the quota system with an annual cap on immigration, regardless of country of origin. During the debate on the proposed legislation, American Catholic leaders voiced strong support for the bill. Since the passage of the 1924 Johnson-Reed Act, the Catholic Church had regularly voiced opposition to the discriminatory features of American immigration law, pointing out that it rested on anti-Catholic bigotry as well as racial prejudice. On June 1, 1965, the director of the Department of Migration, John McCarthy, wrote a letter to the NCWC's General Secretary, Rev. Paul Tanner, stating that the immigration legislation proposed by Celler and Hart was "excellent" and would "eliminate the iniquities and prejudices that have existed in our immigration laws for the past forty years."

    http://www.catholicsinalliance.org/immigrantchurch

    But “lobbying” for something by someone is indicative of the human race–we desire something to happen, so we try to convince people to do it. Nothing new here.

    While openly lobbying for one’s interests may be nothing new, as you say, doing so surreptitiously is. You, like most Americans, were unaware the ADL actually coined the phrase “Diversity is Our Strength.” Now how do you think most Americans will feel if they discover the ADL knowingly promoted diversity to safeguard their own interests at the expense of American unity? This is what is new. If the ADL believes in the merits of diversity so much, why do they not support diversity for the Jewish state? What is new is The Lobby now risks being exposed for its blatent hypocrisy.

    The ADL CLAIMS to have invented this motto. Is there clear, convincing evidence to back up that claim? So we truly do not know for certain.

    Oh, boy. Now I know why you were convinced Judith Miller was telling the truth about Saddam’s WMD.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Avery
    {What is new is The Lobby now risks being exposed for its blatent hypocrisy. }

    ADL was exposed for their vile hypocrisy quite a while back.

    While they were attacking anyone and everyone for denying the Jewish Holocaust - which is fine and the right thing to do - they were not only denying the Armenian Genocide themselves, but they were actively working for the Turk denial machine in their worldwide campaign to deny the AG.
    Particularly here in the US: ADL has been very effective here in official AG denial.

    Abe Foxman's hypocrisy was too much even for a staffer: ADL's New England regional director Andrew H. Tarsy was fired (2007) when he confronted disgusting Foxman for his vile hypocrisy.

    , @Corvinus
    "While openly lobbying for one’s interests may be nothing new, as you say, doing so surreptitiously is."

    The ADL is other than secret in trying to secure their interests, as you have repeatedly noted.

    "You, like most Americans, were unaware the ADL actually coined the phrase “Diversity is Our Strength.”

    Again, the ADL CLAIMED to have coined it. Since you believe they act "surreptitiously", is not conceivable they are other than telling the truth? Moreover, what additional evidence do you have that supports their claim?

    "Now how do you think most Americans will feel if they discover the ADL knowingly promoted diversity to safeguard their own interests at the expense of American unity?"

    First, Americans have generally supported diversity in the past and currently.
    Second, Americans for the most part know that organizations are formed in part to carry out an agenda.
    Third, you ASSUME that the ADL is working to cause American disunity.

    "This is what is new. If the ADL believes in the merits of diversity so much, why do they not support diversity for the Jewish state? What is new is The Lobby now risks being exposed for its blatent hypocrisy."

    They may support the Jewish state, but they also took members of their "tribe" to task.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/27/us-anti-extremism-group-asks-israel-to-curb-rightwing-jewish-activist

    "A US-based organisation that campaigns against antisemitism has taken the unusual step of calling on the Israeli government to act against an extreme rightwing Jewish activist with “abusive, racist, inflammatory and violent” opinions. The Anti-Defamation League (ADL) has urged Israel’s attorney general to use all legal means possible against Bentzi Gopstein, the leader of Lehava – an extremist Jewish organisation that allegedly incites hatred against Arabs."

    "Oh, boy. Now I know why you were convinced Judith Miller was telling the truth about Saddam’s WMD."

    Dear, I see that you are once again not being truthful. I was NOT convinced from the beginning about WMD's in Iraq.

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @truthtellerAryan
    I was reading an old article from an ADL publication about Ken O'Keefe, the article kept insisting the USS Liberty was an accident. These people are so shameless, even an obvious crime as this, they claim to be victims!!!!
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    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Old Jew
    Mr. Giraldi,

    On a subject dear to you, USS Liberty:

    A recent article in HAARETZ.com has the title:

    'But Sir, It’s an American Ship.' 'Never Mind, Hit Her!' When Israel Attacked USS Liberty

    read more: http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.800890

    I was reading an old article from an ADL publication about Ken O’Keefe, the article kept insisting the USS Liberty was an accident. These people are so shameless, even an obvious crime as this, they claim to be victims!!!!

    Read More
    • Replies: @truthtellerAryan
    Here's the link, still washing their hands

    https://www.adl.org/blog/anti-semite-ken-okeefe-on-a-u-s-speaking-tour
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • KA says:
    @Wizard of Oz
    I suppose your standards are higher but you thought yo could get away with an incoherent ramble after finidhing the port on your own if you used "anon".

    I was nonetheless stimulated to folliw up your suggestion that you knew stufc about Johnson that I should know. Having spent quite a long time on searches connecting Johnson and Jews,Jewish ancestry, Robert Caro, Israel etc. I find no reason to think you knowledge of or thoughts about LBJ are worth a damn. Have you read Caro's biography - so far 4 of the 5 volumes - of Johnson? I suppose you would say that Caro's Jewish ancestry meant that your confused ideas about Johnson and Jews or Israel didn't get a run but that you have some secret source of knowledge not tainted by the Ivy League and a distinguished career as journalist and biographer (I wonder how you would fit Caro's famous biography of Robert Moses into the picture).

    Regardless of whether you actually know anything relevant about Johnson you might care to look at the records - easily found on line - of Abba Eban's discussions in DC with Macnamara, Dean Rusk and LBJ himself in the last days of May 1967. The idea that LBJ wanted anyone to attack Egypt just then is so utterly absurd that it qualifies only as ludicrous.

    Please don't bother to try again just mouthing off with vaguely imagined connections of no probative value. There is quite a lot of stuff to be read if you want to understand LBJ's concerns in May/June 1967.

    Read this sometime back . Interesting intrigueimg information about LBJ administration


    HT:

    Abba Eban went to the Pentagon a weekend before the Six-Day War started and got the maps for 25 airfields in the whole Arab world and they killed them all, they bombed them all. That’s how dirty the U.S. was. They gave them maps from the Pentagon. The U.S. has been rotten. I’m sorry. It’s been rotten. http://mondoweiss.net/2013/10/insults-israel-election.html

    (HT). Helen Thomas

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    Nothing particularly surprising if it is in fact true. But says nothing about Johnson and the Liberty.

    How could it be that Israel actually needed those maps from the Pentagon? It would certainly have known where all 25 air fields were. So what was being added? Perhaps not so much "maps" as U2 photographs? One can imagine the picture of Eban's aide taking the photos to an Israeli embassy fax machine and hoping it could transmit useful detail.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Wizard of Oz
    As your argument turns almost entirely on your assumptions about engineering matters like demolitions, and on physics, would you please tell us your qualifications to be taken as authoritative on those subjects. And, specifically where do you find your "textbook controlled demolition" to be so sure it applies to the towers?

    In relation to demolitions can you point to any precedents or textbooks which justify your view that explosive charges on or about the 91st floor of such tall buildings rather than near the ground is standard or "textbook^? I think not.

    Equally to the point can you conceive of any plotter who had any stake at all in success being confident enough of the placing of the demolition charges reliably coinciding with the floors into which planes would crash in not just one but two buildingsl?

    As to physics, are you familiar with the addition of vectors in old-fashioned Newtonian physics which is all that a civil or mechanical engineer needs? Do you understand its relevance when you have thousands of tons of concrete and steel above a greatly weakened floor where the horizontal forces are comparatively minute?

    (1) engineering and physics assumptions
    My argument turns on relatively self-explaining and simple engineering assumptions. It relies on quite simple physics. My qualification insofar is school education in physics – which is sufficient to understand the relevant questions – and a little research on the web. Something most people could do. Also I am just repeating arguments made by experts in the field.

    To explain: If a building “collapses” in constant acceleration then there is a net force driving that building downwards. The force pulling the building downwards is gravity. Normally buildings do not collapse because they are built to have a structural resistance so that there is a counterforce that can carry at least the building itself. Of course buildings have a much higher resistance because they need to be safe and comfortable to use, and in the case of the WTC they were designed to withstand plane impacts, strong winds etc.

    If there is a net force downwards then the structural resistance is less than gravity, i.e. the building cannot even carry itself.

    Even if we assume that there were damages to the upper parts of WTC 1 and WTC 2, why should suddenly (!) the lower, undamaged part of the building loose most of its structural resistance? There were no jolts so the upper part could not have “hammered” the lower part. Also the upper part would have been destroyed much earlier than the lower part and in the video footage you can see that it basically was destroyed before even reaching the lower part, or in the case of the South Tower it tilted and disintegrated in mid-air.

    Keep in mind that a building is structurally designed like a pyramid. Each floor has to be built that it can carry the whole building above it. So the lower – undamaged – parts of the towers were much much stronger than the upper parts.

    Also the lower part building was destroyed absolutely symmetrically. It was like an eraser plane going down the building. Such a “collapse” seems totally unnatural.

    And then explain the ejection of the steel hull, the squibs, the other explosions, the heat etc. You can’t appeal-to-authority away the evidence.

    In the case of WTC7:
    How should the building loose suddenly (!) all of its structural resistance? Explain that. And then in such a way that the center draws the building inwards so that it falls into a neat pile. Again, totally unnatural.

    (2) textbook demolition
    I said the collapse of WTC 7 (not 1 or 2 !) looks like a textbook controlled demolition. That is to say that is looks exactly like most of the controlled demolitions I have seen on video. Also I have seen an interview with a building demolition expert who immediately upon viewing the WTC 7 collapse stated that it was a demolition “no doubt about it”.

    But if you care to get an expert opinion, why don’t you check the site of Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth? Or you read some articles on the topic in the Journal for 9/11 studies.

    (3) plane impact points:
    This is a completely different aspect. Did the plotters know where the planes would impact?

    Well, I do not know. But if the planes were remotely controlled that might have been the case.

    Also there were very strong explosions at the impact point of the planes and on video from one of the impact points molten metal (iron or steel) can bee seen dripping down. So maybe the charges near the impact point did go off. Who knows.

    (4) vectors:
    Regarding vectors: I know what a vector is, but I do not understand what you are trying to say.

    Well, have a look at the evidence yourself. Believe what you will.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    Thanks for trying. Religion is an interesting phenomenon.
    , @Wizard of Oz
    Have a look at #250. You seem to have something of an open mind so I invite your attention.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Rurik says: • Website
    @Wizard of Oz
    I take no note of your historical ramblings, only your quoting what I said and your failure to accept it.

    The Vietnam War was an expensive and unpopular venture under Johnson's leadership which was, more than inter alia, damaging his Great Society programs and you really have to find strong positive reasons for Johnson to want to go to war against Egypt to make that theory of yours plausible. Where is the archival material or the memoirs from insiders? No evidence and no motive but you apparently want to believe any nutty story.

    And in general what evidence is it that Johnson did something devious in 1967 that other Presidents didn't behave openly and honestly at all times? We know Johnson, like 99.9 per cent of human beings, could tell lies, but where does that get you on the USS Liberty disaster?

    Johnson to want to go to war against Egypt to make that theory of yours plausible.

    not Johnson per se, but rather the zio-deepstate assassins who placed him in the White House as their poodle

    Where is the archival material or the memoirs from insiders?

    lol!

    No evidence and no motive

    the motive was to get America to fight Israel’s wars for them.

    let that sink in for a moment, and then ponder its modern day implications

    We know Johnson, like 99.9 per cent of human beings, could tell lies, but where does that get you on the USS Liberty disaster?

    umm, that Israel and the ZUS lied about it?

    that is was an attempted false flag to get America to fight Israel’s wars for them, just like 9/11.

    is that so hard for you to comprehend ‘wizard’?

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    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Paul2
    I have not seen all of that 4 hour discussion but IMHO the hypotheses of Khalezov are *not* very plausible.

    If one looks at the video footage of the “collapses” of WTC 1 and 2, one can clearly observe squibs and other explosions that seem to be timed. This points towards a controlled demolition. Also very heavy parts of the outer steel structure are very forcibly ejected laterally or even upwards so there must have been explosions at many different height levels of WTC 1 and 2.

    In the case of WTC 7 the hull is basically intact and stays intact as the building collapses into its own footprint. I do not believe that this can be done with one underground explosion. Instead look again at the video footage: The collapse of WTC 7 looks like a *textbook* controlled building demolition.

    When I saw the footage of the collapse only three years ago I immediately supposed that is was a demolition and when I was told that that collapse had taken place on 9/11 I knew there was something very fishy with the official 9/11 story. Also I asked myself why had not seen the collapse in the media and why it was not discussed there. (Hint: Forget about the mainstream media, they are a tool of brain washing and war propaganda.)

    Also researchers have analysed dust from 9/11 and have found a lot of stuff that could well be decomposition product of Thermite and they even found unreacted Nano-Thermite particles.

    So we do not have to speculate wildly about nuclear underground explosions or “directed energy weapons” or any of that stuff. Just take the evidence: video footage, witness accounts, environmental data. And IMHO one ends up with the controlled demolition hypothesis. Details are unknown, of course, but that is the only explanation that fits the known evidence and the established laws of physics and known technology.

    Then you can go criminalistic and research for motives, means, opportunity, foreknowledge, who benefits, personal ensnarements etc. Then you will find for example Ace Elevator and other interesting companies...

    As your argument turns almost entirely on your assumptions about engineering matters like demolitions, and on physics, would you please tell us your qualifications to be taken as authoritative on those subjects. And, specifically where do you find your “textbook controlled demolition” to be so sure it applies to the towers?

    In relation to demolitions can you point to any precedents or textbooks which justify your view that explosive charges on or about the 91st floor of such tall buildings rather than near the ground is standard or “textbook^? I think not.

    Equally to the point can you conceive of any plotter who had any stake at all in success being confident enough of the placing of the demolition charges reliably coinciding with the floors into which planes would crash in not just one but two buildingsl?

    As to physics, are you familiar with the addition of vectors in old-fashioned Newtonian physics which is all that a civil or mechanical engineer needs? Do you understand its relevance when you have thousands of tons of concrete and steel above a greatly weakened floor where the horizontal forces are comparatively minute?

    Read More
    • Replies: @paul2
    (1) engineering and physics assumptions
    My argument turns on relatively self-explaining and simple engineering assumptions. It relies on quite simple physics. My qualification insofar is school education in physics – which is sufficient to understand the relevant questions – and a little research on the web. Something most people could do. Also I am just repeating arguments made by experts in the field.

    To explain: If a building “collapses” in constant acceleration then there is a net force driving that building downwards. The force pulling the building downwards is gravity. Normally buildings do not collapse because they are built to have a structural resistance so that there is a counterforce that can carry at least the building itself. Of course buildings have a much higher resistance because they need to be safe and comfortable to use, and in the case of the WTC they were designed to withstand plane impacts, strong winds etc.

    If there is a net force downwards then the structural resistance is less than gravity, i.e. the building cannot even carry itself.

    Even if we assume that there were damages to the upper parts of WTC 1 and WTC 2, why should suddenly (!) the lower, undamaged part of the building loose most of its structural resistance? There were no jolts so the upper part could not have “hammered” the lower part. Also the upper part would have been destroyed much earlier than the lower part and in the video footage you can see that it basically was destroyed before even reaching the lower part, or in the case of the South Tower it tilted and disintegrated in mid-air.

    Keep in mind that a building is structurally designed like a pyramid. Each floor has to be built that it can carry the whole building above it. So the lower – undamaged – parts of the towers were much much stronger than the upper parts.

    Also the lower part building was destroyed absolutely symmetrically. It was like an eraser plane going down the building. Such a “collapse” seems totally unnatural.

    And then explain the ejection of the steel hull, the squibs, the other explosions, the heat etc. You can’t appeal-to-authority away the evidence.


    In the case of WTC7:
    How should the building loose suddenly (!) all of its structural resistance? Explain that. And then in such a way that the center draws the building inwards so that it falls into a neat pile. Again, totally unnatural.


    (2) textbook demolition
    I said the collapse of WTC 7 (not 1 or 2 !) looks like a textbook controlled demolition. That is to say that is looks exactly like most of the controlled demolitions I have seen on video. Also I have seen an interview with a building demolition expert who immediately upon viewing the WTC 7 collapse stated that it was a demolition “no doubt about it”.

    But if you care to get an expert opinion, why don’t you check the site of Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth? Or you read some articles on the topic in the Journal for 9/11 studies.


    (3) plane impact points:
    This is a completely different aspect. Did the plotters know where the planes would impact?

    Well, I do not know. But if the planes were remotely controlled that might have been the case.

    Also there were very strong explosions at the impact point of the planes and on video from one of the impact points molten metal (iron or steel) can bee seen dripping down. So maybe the charges near the impact point did go off. Who knows.


    (4) vectors:
    Regarding vectors: I know what a vector is, but I do not understand what you are trying to say.


    Well, have a look at the evidence yourself. Believe what you will.

    , @Anon
    As to physics, are you familiar with the addition of vectors in old-fashioned Newtonian physics which is all that a civil or mechanical engineer needs?

    Yes, very. Which vectors are you adding (or tip-to-tailing as we used sometimes to say)?

    NB. I'm not a mech. e. and really don't know much at present about the Tower collapse.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Foolisholdman
    A very interesting contribution to the debate on how the WTC and the other buildings collapsed into the ground, why the fires burned for weeks after, how the buildings were pulverized and various other mysteries is given in a YouTube piece called "The third Truth".

    Whether it is factual or simply a phantasy, I have no way of knowing, but I think it is worth considering. It seems to explain quite a lot that other explanation do not.
    Improbable? Yes, indeed! But then how "probable" was 9/11?

    I have not seen all of that 4 hour discussion but IMHO the hypotheses of Khalezov are *not* very plausible.

    If one looks at the video footage of the “collapses” of WTC 1 and 2, one can clearly observe squibs and other explosions that seem to be timed. This points towards a controlled demolition. Also very heavy parts of the outer steel structure are very forcibly ejected laterally or even upwards so there must have been explosions at many different height levels of WTC 1 and 2.

    In the case of WTC 7 the hull is basically intact and stays intact as the building collapses into its own footprint. I do not believe that this can be done with one underground explosion. Instead look again at the video footage: The collapse of WTC 7 looks like a *textbook* controlled building demolition.

    When I saw the footage of the collapse only three years ago I immediately supposed that is was a demolition and when I was told that that collapse had taken place on 9/11 I knew there was something very fishy with the official 9/11 story. Also I asked myself why had not seen the collapse in the media and why it was not discussed there. (Hint: Forget about the mainstream media, they are a tool of brain washing and war propaganda.)

    Also researchers have analysed dust from 9/11 and have found a lot of stuff that could well be decomposition product of Thermite and they even found unreacted Nano-Thermite particles.

    So we do not have to speculate wildly about nuclear underground explosions or “directed energy weapons” or any of that stuff. Just take the evidence: video footage, witness accounts, environmental data. And IMHO one ends up with the controlled demolition hypothesis. Details are unknown, of course, but that is the only explanation that fits the known evidence and the established laws of physics and known technology.

    Then you can go criminalistic and research for motives, means, opportunity, foreknowledge, who benefits, personal ensnarements etc. Then you will find for example Ace Elevator and other interesting companies…

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    As your argument turns almost entirely on your assumptions about engineering matters like demolitions, and on physics, would you please tell us your qualifications to be taken as authoritative on those subjects. And, specifically where do you find your "textbook controlled demolition" to be so sure it applies to the towers?

    In relation to demolitions can you point to any precedents or textbooks which justify your view that explosive charges on or about the 91st floor of such tall buildings rather than near the ground is standard or "textbook^? I think not.

    Equally to the point can you conceive of any plotter who had any stake at all in success being confident enough of the placing of the demolition charges reliably coinciding with the floors into which planes would crash in not just one but two buildingsl?

    As to physics, are you familiar with the addition of vectors in old-fashioned Newtonian physics which is all that a civil or mechanical engineer needs? Do you understand its relevance when you have thousands of tons of concrete and steel above a greatly weakened floor where the horizontal forces are comparatively minute?

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @geokat62

    Western nations have always been diverse.
     
    That may be true. But was it the result of a lobby pushing mass immigration from the four corners of the world?

    I don’t know, was it?
     
    Now you know:

    For some time, the ADL has promoted the slogan “Diversity is Our Strength.” In keeping with this motto, which it claims to have invented, the ADL has devoted effort and resources to persuading Americans -- especially younger Americans -- to welcome and embrace ever more social, cultural and racial “diversity.” /17


    17. ADL On the Frontline (New York), Summer 1997, p. 8. This issue of the ADL bulletin also noted with some pride that President Clinton, in his Feb. 1997 “State of the Union” address, had given an unexpected boost to what it called the “ADL tag line.” In that address, Clinton said: “My fellow Americans, we must never, ever believe that our diversity is a weakness. It is our greatest strength.”

    http://ihr.org/other/anti-semitism-why-does-it-exist-dec-2013
     


    The ACLU, the Southern Law Poverty Center, and of course various churches are all similar to the ADL in their advocacy.
     
    The first two are in common cause with the ADL. As for the churches, were they the ones pushing hardest for the passage of the 1965 Immigration Act?

    “That may be true.”

    No, it is definitively true that western nations have been diverse.

    “But was it the result of a lobby pushing mass immigration from the four corners of the world?”

    Of course not. The process of how western nations became diverse 500 to 1000 years ago is markedly different than what is occurring now. But “lobbying” for something by someone is indicative of the human race–we desire something to happen, so we try to convince people to do it. Nothing new here. Moreover, the world has become increasingly interconnected ever since Columbus made that journey in 1492, and it is other than surprising that people from around the world have moved from their homeland to a new land. Also, during the second American industrial revolution (1865-1900), American industrialists were clamoring for cheap immigrant labor. They served as the backbone to our rise as the #1 exporter of the world by 1900.

    “Now you know”

    The ADL CLAIMS to have invented this motto. Is there clear, convincing evidence to back up that claim? So we truly do not know for certain.

    “As for the churches, were they the ones pushing hardest for the passage of the 1965 Immigration Act?”

    They certainly had strong support for it.

    “The bill proposed by Celler and Hart advocated replacing the quota system with an annual cap on immigration, regardless of country of origin. During the debate on the proposed legislation, American Catholic leaders voiced strong support for the bill. Since the passage of the 1924 Johnson-Reed Act, the Catholic Church had regularly voiced opposition to the discriminatory features of American immigration law, pointing out that it rested on anti-Catholic bigotry as well as racial prejudice. On June 1, 1965, the director of the Department of Migration, John McCarthy, wrote a letter to the NCWC’s General Secretary, Rev. Paul Tanner, stating that the immigration legislation proposed by Celler and Hart was “excellent” and would “eliminate the iniquities and prejudices that have existed in our immigration laws for the past forty years.”

    http://www.catholicsinalliance.org/immigrantchurch

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    • Replies: @geokat62

    But “lobbying” for something by someone is indicative of the human race–we desire something to happen, so we try to convince people to do it. Nothing new here.
     
    While openly lobbying for one's interests may be nothing new, as you say, doing so surreptitiously is. You, like most Americans, were unaware the ADL actually coined the phrase "Diversity is Our Strength." Now how do you think most Americans will feel if they discover the ADL knowingly promoted diversity to safeguard their own interests at the expense of American unity? This is what is new. If the ADL believes in the merits of diversity so much, why do they not support diversity for the Jewish state? What is new is The Lobby now risks being exposed for its blatent hypocrisy.

    The ADL CLAIMS to have invented this motto. Is there clear, convincing evidence to back up that claim? So we truly do not know for certain.
     
    Oh, boy. Now I know why you were convinced Judith Miller was telling the truth about Saddam's WMD.
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  • @NoseytheDuke
    Seriously Wiz, has it never occurred to you that The Unz Review is not the right place for you to be commenting? I mean you've become such a joke here that you are competing with the likes of Sean and Quartermaster for the title of biggest idiot.

    Time and time again you are being called out for the blatantly false, illogical and confused "quality" of your comments by many reputable commenters and still the outflow continues from you like the proverbial diarrhoea known as Delhi belly. Perhaps you'd do better commenting at a site where the consensus is that the towers fell due to aluminium combining with water as you've posited previously.

    We get it that you're a troll doing what you think is good work for the criminal zionist entity but to what effect? You convince nobody, your influence here is zero and the nuisance quotient is equal to a pimple on an elephant's arse, possibly the resemblance too. No doubt you are enjoying yourself, idiots seem to enjoy being idiots, it's what they do best but you are also an embarrassment to all Australians, known for being fun, down to earth, straight speakers.

    What with your high powered physicist and high placed banking friends who, by your account, seem to enjoy the company of a waffling wanker like yourself, either they feel sorry for you, see you as some sort of entertaining pet or you are just not fair dinkum at all mate, ever.

    I don’t think I ever had to try tutoring anyone qiite so intellectually unsuited to what should have been an honours course and so – apparently – unaware of his deficiencies – or maybe just trying and fool even himself of his adequacy. I have tried, as I would for any student trying for a pass degree to challenge you to produce acceptable arguments. But it seems by your opening that this is obviously hopeless and I shall give up on you confident that you will get no nearer to dealing effectively with substance.

    Unfortunately our host”s webzine is beset by commenters who, as to about 80 per cent, are as uniformly hopeless as yourself (or capable of almost equally illogical or evidence free emissions.)(The occasional interesting assertion always needs to be checked from that 80 per cent). For anyone interested I think I have previously enumerated those I regard as sane, logical and informed (usually at least). I suspect I should have added Talha for his honesty though I find starting from a religious orientation not my thing. Sam Shama when he doesn’t get overexcited. Inctatus, Greg Cochran, Iffen usually, Vendetta possibly despite Ron cheerfully calling him an ignorant nitwit. For the moment I am at a loss to think how you can find yourself in good company except that you don’t seem even to have the awareness that you might be addressing with hauteur someone who gave you a couple of your Cs out of charity and optimism. (Also third rate universities have long since been realistic about needing the money for bums on seats or marks on paper).

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  • @Sparkon

    (a) the absurdity of Silverstein or anyone not noticeably mad counting on the demolition charges coinciding with where the planes were to hit;
     
    Thanks for the good straight line:

    In the spring of 2000, Gelatin and 14 other artists shared free studio space on the 91st floor, where the group's artmaking appeared to consist of building a clubhouse out of cardboard boxes.
     
    http://www.nytimes.com/2001/08/18/nyregion/balcony-scene-unseen-atop-world-episode-trade-center-assumes-mythic-qualities.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

    Art for art's sake, or something else?

    I want to call your attention to the artist groups (E-TEAM and GELATIN) who were selected to be part of the Lower Manhattan Cultural Council (LMCC) World Views / Studioscape ...programs that allowed them and other artists to work and live in the WTC in the four years leading up to 9/11 on different floors, including 91 and 92 of the North Tower. Additionally, they were given seven day a week construction access to the WTC that allowed them to freely move all sorts of materials in and out of the complex.
     
    http://www.markdotzler.com/Mark_Dotzler/WTC_Artists.html

    Please pay particular attention to the two photographs of the WTC at the top Mr. Dotzler's page, and note how the upper floors of WTC 1 were darkened to display E-TEAM self-promotion 127 Illuminated Windows in March 2001 "... coinciding with where the planes were to hit," just as the Wizard of Oz has specified.

    I don’t know what your line is but I have a few points to raise with you in response to all that. (I had no line until very recently I decided I couldn’t find any of the many and varied truther explanations other than absurd although I haven’t an overwhelming problem about possible Mossad prior intelligence or highplaced Saudis being involved).

    Can you seriously entertain the idea that someone clever who wanted to provoke a war against the Taliban and Al Qaeda (even assuming it is a plausible way of getting up the later war against Iraq)

    1. would think it necessary to wholly destroy the two buildings at the risk of the means of demolition being discovered before or after the highjackings? (And your story seems to be about just one building).

    2. Would count on planes both hitting at the right place so the demolition from that level would not be obviosly a demolition?

    3. Would count on the externally framed WTC buildings collapsing (always assuming you can find a reason for their total collapse being necessary to the plot) from an explosion blowing out, not the ground floor but the 91st. This is really a problem for those who have trouble with the manner and speed of descent according to the official story. It isn’t so much a problem once you accept that it didn’t much matter what the cause of the weakening was. Provided the 91st floor structures could no longer hold up several thousand tons of stuff above it you had your collapse. But you wouldn’t want to divide the team if you are a truther….

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  • @Wizard of Oz
    I thought you were at least a troll. But you are a fool ill equipped to contribute anything rational on 9/11 issues. Why else would you blow smoke in your last paragraph which contains suggeations about my views and preferences for which you have not the slightest evidence beyond your weird imagination, prompted by your need to cover your embsrrassment at having no qualification by knowledge or intellect to say anything worth reading about the real issues?

    Similarly you proffer that architects and engineers (as they claim to be) risked their careers. Surely there must be a few cases out of 1600 where you can substantiate that? No? Well why say it except to add bluster to a weak argument?

    Seriously Wiz, has it never occurred to you that The Unz Review is not the right place for you to be commenting? I mean you’ve become such a joke here that you are competing with the likes of Sean and Quartermaster for the title of biggest idiot.

    Time and time again you are being called out for the blatantly false, illogical and confused “quality” of your comments by many reputable commenters and still the outflow continues from you like the proverbial diarrhoea known as Delhi belly. Perhaps you’d do better commenting at a site where the consensus is that the towers fell due to aluminium combining with water as you’ve posited previously.

    We get it that you’re a troll doing what you think is good work for the criminal zionist entity but to what effect? You convince nobody, your influence here is zero and the nuisance quotient is equal to a pimple on an elephant’s arse, possibly the resemblance too. No doubt you are enjoying yourself, idiots seem to enjoy being idiots, it’s what they do best but you are also an embarrassment to all Australians, known for being fun, down to earth, straight speakers.

    What with your high powered physicist and high placed banking friends who, by your account, seem to enjoy the company of a waffling wanker like yourself, either they feel sorry for you, see you as some sort of entertaining pet or you are just not fair dinkum at all mate, ever.

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    • Agree: L.K
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    I don't think I ever had to try tutoring anyone qiite so intellectually unsuited to what should have been an honours course and so - apparently - unaware of his deficiencies - or maybe just trying and fool even himself of his adequacy. I have tried, as I would for any student trying for a pass degree to challenge you to produce acceptable arguments. But it seems by your opening that this is obviously hopeless and I shall give up on you confident that you will get no nearer to dealing effectively with substance.

    Unfortunately our host"s webzine is beset by commenters who, as to about 80 per cent, are as uniformly hopeless as yourself (or capable of almost equally illogical or evidence free emissions.)(The occasional interesting assertion always needs to be checked from that 80 per cent). For anyone interested I think I have previously enumerated those I regard as sane, logical and informed (usually at least). I suspect I should have added Talha for his honesty though I find starting from a religious orientation not my thing. Sam Shama when he doesn't get overexcited. Inctatus, Greg Cochran, Iffen usually, Vendetta possibly despite Ron cheerfully calling him an ignorant nitwit. For the moment I am at a loss to think how you can find yourself in good company except that you don't seem even to have the awareness that you might be addressing with hauteur someone who gave you a couple of your Cs out of charity and optimism. (Also third rate universities have long since been realistic about needing the money for bums on seats or marks on paper).
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  • @anon
    It means you dont know anything about Johnson. His loyalty and fealty to Israel . Hios connection to leakage to letter sent to Eisenhower ( which he was not supposed to elak but leaked to some big Jewish guy who was in the commite of teh immediate ancestor of AIPAC . He did to curry favor with them .He got Forta to rescue him few times Even imidiatley after Kennedy assassination he called him first thing in morning
    He slept with one of the Girls possibly in WH , she was conduit To Israel. He suppressed the investigation going against Weizman institute and "its American Friend for for Weizmann Institute . He was aware of the upcoming invasion by Isarel"

    I suppose your standards are higher but you thought yo could get away with an incoherent ramble after finidhing the port on your own if you used “anon”.

    I was nonetheless stimulated to folliw up your suggestion that you knew stufc about Johnson that I should know. Having spent quite a long time on searches connecting Johnson and Jews,Jewish ancestry, Robert Caro, Israel etc. I find no reason to think you knowledge of or thoughts about LBJ are worth a damn. Have you read Caro’s biography – so far 4 of the 5 volumes – of Johnson? I suppose you would say that Caro’s Jewish ancestry meant that your confused ideas about Johnson and Jews or Israel didn’t get a run but that you have some secret source of knowledge not tainted by the Ivy League and a distinguished career as journalist and biographer (I wonder how you would fit Caro’s famous biography of Robert Moses into the picture).

    Regardless of whether you actually know anything relevant about Johnson you might care to look at the records – easily found on line – of Abba Eban’s discussions in DC with Macnamara, Dean Rusk and LBJ himself in the last days of May 1967. The idea that LBJ wanted anyone to attack Egypt just then is so utterly absurd that it qualifies only as ludicrous.

    Please don’t bother to try again just mouthing off with vaguely imagined connections of no probative value. There is quite a lot of stuff to be read if you want to understand LBJ’s concerns in May/June 1967.

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    • Replies: @KA
    Read this sometime back . Interesting intrigueimg information about LBJ administration


    "
    HT:

    Abba Eban went to the Pentagon a weekend before the Six-Day War started and got the maps for 25 airfields in the whole Arab world and they killed them all, they bombed them all. That’s how dirty the U.S. was. They gave them maps from the Pentagon. The U.S. has been rotten. I’m sorry. It’s been rotten. http://mondoweiss.net/2013/10/insults-israel-election.html

    (HT). Helen Thomas

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  • @SolontoCroesus
    A friend just alerted me to this informative comment:


    "'But Sir, It’s an American Ship.' - Haaretz"
    [Col. Pat Lang expands on the Haaretz article, revealing that "In the course of my duties at the time I read the NSA transcripts quoted above."


    In a lengthy comment @ 14 July 2017 at 05:42 AM, 'LondonBob' offered details on LBJ's Jewish ancestry, and his career-long service to Jews, Israel, and zionism.

    http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2017/07/httpwwwhaaretzcomus-news1800584.html#comment-6a00d8341c72e153ef01bb09aed26b970d

    LBJ’s tiny fraction of Jewish ancestry is so lacking in relevance to anything that matters that you demean youself in mentioning it in this context.

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  • @Miro23

    Western nations have always been diverse. The English, for example, were derived from the Picts, Britons, Romans, the Celts, and various Germanic tribes.
     
    Add on the Danes and Normans and take away the Romans, but the main point is that a British racial identity as an unselfconscious and natural mixing of them all has taken almost a thousand years of non-invaded isolation to develop.

    Same for Spain in the shorter period after the expulsion of the Moors. The North Africans that remained integrated with the Basques (main ethic component of Spain), Iberians, Germanic Visigoths, and some Romans and Greeks on the Mediterranean.

    The story seems to be that integration can take a very long time and has to unify around a common identity - often religious . This has nothing to do with modern "Diversity" and is better described as "Unity in Anti-Diversity".

    In case I have been rude elsewhere I proffer my congratulations on your pointing out how long integration may take. Maybe one should add that it can be undone rather quickly. Maybe the alleged exacerbation of differences between Tutsi and Hutu should be considered in this light.

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  • @Carroll Price

    I’m familiar with organized Jewry’s efforts to push diversity on Western nations. Wasn’t it the ADL that actually coined the phrase “Diversity Is Our Strength”?
     
    I can't imagine anyone else coming up with such a stupid idea can you? It's got Jews written all over it.

    So now you are suggesting that it is obviously Jews who would come up with such a “stupid idea” when the point of concern is that it is, if you accept at least one version of how Jews see Jewish interests and seek to pursue them, a cleverly devised slogan to promote Jewish interests far from stupidly.

    I recall, from many years ago, a fairly conservative Jewish publicist/activist/apparatchik defending multiculturalism in Australia. That was before the folly of the conservative PM he then served in letting many Lebanese into Australia without discrimination became apparent. You could say he was pursuing a Jewish interest in diminishing the power of established Anglo-Celts though I have also heard other Jewish academics refer to the relative absence of anti -Semitism in 1940s/50s/60s Australia when the good old Protestant-Catholic rivalries were still live (and prosperous Jews would have sent their children to private church schools like Scotch, Wesley, X Church of England Grammar).

    The point this mild supporter of multiculturalism sought to emphasise was that the second generation just became assimilated (though I can’t remember if he used the word) Australians. It was only perhaps 15 years since the White Australia Policy had formally been abandoned and I think he meant what he said. Apart from unemployed Muslims and a few small groups he wasn’t obviously wrong either. Mind you I had my prejudices in favour of Australia’s policies reinforced by the favourable impression I got from a recent private hospital stay when i experienved care from 1. a stern Anglo ticking me off for being late 2. a 55 ish Colleen of obvious Irish ancestry 3. Two young female Chinese or Vietnamese X Ray technicians 4. A 35 ish Sri Lankan nurse 5. a 40 ish Punjabi nurse whose Sikh male colleague in s turban was on the same shift 6. The female cardiac surgeon who had arrived from Taiwan at the age of 6. 7. A 30 ish gorgeous and smart black African nurse from Kenya who was as elegant as the Nilotics despite saying she was Bantu (think Tutsi and Hutu intermarriage just down the road). 8. An Anglo or other Euro bioengineer.

    In Australia we do our best to have dumb government but somehow we have escaped the truly appalling government the donor groups and organised numbers (think of all those over pensioned public employees) have inflicted on ordinary Americans since the 1980s (not discounting preparations going back to 1965). As for immigration specifically, the right kind of immigration is fine even for those without existing wealth.

    As to Diversity, strengthening or otherwise, I don’t see it as such a powerful slogan in Australia though recently a leftish Racial Discrimination commissioner of Chine-Lau ancestry and an Oxford doctorate called for more diversity in positions of power and influence. Presumably the idea of diversity sounds good when we naturally now condemn conformity and look for enterprise and innovation to improve e everything. There may be also some carry over from the notion of diversification preached to investors….

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  • @NoseytheDuke
    Sort of, the explosives were likely planted during an unprecedented total power shut down not long prior. "Art students" from Israel living illegally in vacant offices were discovered and there are pics online of cartons stacked up bearing company markings of detonator contents. Like you, I smell a rodent or two.

    My cats share your hypersensitivity to the smell of rodents all the time, and I concede that their enthusiasm is often justified, but there is rather a big gap between the apparent certainty of your views about what did and didn’t happen on and leading up to 9/11 and the case you make.

    For example you still seem to like demolition by implanted explosives placed at just the right levels to coincide with where civilian aircraft will be seen to hit the World Towers. (Apparently it is made even stranger by reason of its being planned uniquely as a “controlled” demolition, not at ground level in accordance with industry practice, but at level 100 or thereabouts which would require huge manual effort on a day of power shut down – which day BTW?).

    Setting aside the typical rubbish trolls and worse post on line how do you explain clever malicious plotters bothering to include total demolition of the towers rather than just a spectacular attack killing perhaps a few hundred people? They would still get their war in Afghanistan if that is their crazy objective. And if you say Larry Silverstein had to be cut in on the deal for access and so he could get the insurance payout from a full demolition how do you think he was persuaded that he could 100 per cent count on exact placement of the explosives and exact striking of both towers? Wouldn’t he have said “you just hit low enough on the towers 0on a Sunday and it can be a nice big win-win”?

    Now I’m really into the minds of intetested parties I see the obvious. Who were the two big winners? (Not left to improvise like Rumsfeld, Perle, Wolfwitz and co). It was Larry Silverstein and Osama bin Laden! In it together perhaps from 1993 when the first attack on the WTC failed. Obvious innit?

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  • @anon
    "To demonstrate the degree to which Jewish Agency plants infiltrated the government and everyday life, a couple of months after one coast guard station was attacked and bombed by the Hagana, it blew up again … but the British were baffled, because this time there had been no attack. They discovered that the construction crew that had rebuilt the station after the previous attack were Hagana, and had simply embedded explosives in the reconstruction, to be detonated when desired."

    1st Jan 2017
    Mondoweiss

    Primary source is British Archives at London
    Did they do same to WTC ??

    So?

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  • @Miro23

    Having noted suspicion about the way the Twin Towers collapsed I put the issues to a high powered physicist. Have you bothered to do as much?
     
    I'm not acquainted with any "high powered physicists" like yourself. I have to make do with the architects and engineers of A&E for 9/11 Truth http://www.ae911truth.org/ who are concerned enough about the lies of the official 9/11 story to risk their professional careers.

    Since you probably also support the US destruction of Iran and regime change in Syria + conflict with Russia, what do you see as the optimum US government moves to enable these events?

    I thought you were at least a troll. But you are a fool ill equipped to contribute anything rational on 9/11 issues. Why else would you blow smoke in your last paragraph which contains suggeations about my views and preferences for which you have not the slightest evidence beyond your weird imagination, prompted by your need to cover your embsrrassment at having no qualification by knowledge or intellect to say anything worth reading about the real issues?

    Similarly you proffer that architects and engineers (as they claim to be) risked their careers. Surely there must be a few cases out of 1600 where you can substantiate that? No? Well why say it except to add bluster to a weak argument?

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    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    Seriously Wiz, has it never occurred to you that The Unz Review is not the right place for you to be commenting? I mean you've become such a joke here that you are competing with the likes of Sean and Quartermaster for the title of biggest idiot.

    Time and time again you are being called out for the blatantly false, illogical and confused "quality" of your comments by many reputable commenters and still the outflow continues from you like the proverbial diarrhoea known as Delhi belly. Perhaps you'd do better commenting at a site where the consensus is that the towers fell due to aluminium combining with water as you've posited previously.

    We get it that you're a troll doing what you think is good work for the criminal zionist entity but to what effect? You convince nobody, your influence here is zero and the nuisance quotient is equal to a pimple on an elephant's arse, possibly the resemblance too. No doubt you are enjoying yourself, idiots seem to enjoy being idiots, it's what they do best but you are also an embarrassment to all Australians, known for being fun, down to earth, straight speakers.

    What with your high powered physicist and high placed banking friends who, by your account, seem to enjoy the company of a waffling wanker like yourself, either they feel sorry for you, see you as some sort of entertaining pet or you are just not fair dinkum at all mate, ever.

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  • @anon
    "To demonstrate the degree to which Jewish Agency plants infiltrated the government and everyday life, a couple of months after one coast guard station was attacked and bombed by the Hagana, it blew up again … but the British were baffled, because this time there had been no attack. They discovered that the construction crew that had rebuilt the station after the previous attack were Hagana, and had simply embedded explosives in the reconstruction, to be detonated when desired."

    1st Jan 2017
    Mondoweiss

    Primary source is British Archives at London
    Did they do same to WTC ??

    Sort of, the explosives were likely planted during an unprecedented total power shut down not long prior. “Art students” from Israel living illegally in vacant offices were discovered and there are pics online of cartons stacked up bearing company markings of detonator contents. Like you, I smell a rodent or two.

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    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    My cats share your hypersensitivity to the smell of rodents all the time, and I concede that their enthusiasm is often justified, but there is rather a big gap between the apparent certainty of your views about what did and didn't happen on and leading up to 9/11 and the case you make.

    For example you still seem to like demolition by implanted explosives placed at just the right levels to coincide with where civilian aircraft will be seen to hit the World Towers. (Apparently it is made even stranger by reason of its being planned uniquely as a "controlled" demolition, not at ground level in accordance with industry practice, but at level 100 or thereabouts which would require huge manual effort on a day of power shut down - which day BTW?).

    Setting aside the typical rubbish trolls and worse post on line how do you explain clever malicious plotters bothering to include total demolition of the towers rather than just a spectacular attack killing perhaps a few hundred people? They would still get their war in Afghanistan if that is their crazy objective. And if you say Larry Silverstein had to be cut in on the deal for access and so he could get the insurance payout from a full demolition how do you think he was persuaded that he could 100 per cent count on exact placement of the explosives and exact striking of both towers? Wouldn't he have said "you just hit low enough on the towers 0on a Sunday and it can be a nice big win-win"?

    Now I'm really into the minds of intetested parties I see the obvious. Who were the two big winners? (Not left to improvise like Rumsfeld, Perle, Wolfwitz and co). It was Larry Silverstein and Osama bin Laden! In it together perhaps from 1993 when the first attack on the WTC failed. Obvious innit?
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  • @MarkinLA
    Does anyone know why all the ex-CIA, ex-NSA, ex-FBI, and ex-Intelligence community people on TV always make themselves look like such dolts? I was watching CNN the other day in a diner after the whole Don Jr. thing came up and here was this "expert" going on about how the FSB does what it does to get some foreign person to become an FSB asset. I was amazed that all the dolts at CNN were pretending he was actually worth listening to. On Tucker Carlson we had another one of these guys who at least admitted that the previous Congressman talking about Rt.com and Russian trolls didn't make much sense but he still prattled on about how we have to "confront" Russia without ever explaining why or what he meant by confronting and what it might ultimately mean if the Russians don't like being confronted?

    Are these people hanging around DC in lobbying positions and are brought in because they will say anything somebody handing them a check wants them to?

    “I was watching CNN the other day”

    I think I see the problem here…

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  • @geokat62

    Those things are brought to you by Jews AND non-Jews. You know, people. Your run of the mill human beings.
     
    I'm familiar with organized Jewry's efforts to push diversity on Western nations. Wasn't it the ADL that actually coined the phrase “Diversity Is Our Strength"?

    Need proof? Here's material they’ve recently posted on their website:


    This is America.This is ADL. (NB – disingenuously referring to 9 pictures of distinct-looking individuals)

    The United States is a vibrant mix of cultures, races, religions and ethnic groups. These differences enhance our nation’s strength, beauty and collective wisdom. Together, we all weave the fabric of our pluralistic society.

    For over 100 years, the Anti-Defamation League has upheld this distinctly American concept by leading the fight against anti-Semitism, bigotry and racism. Today, ADL is the nation’s premier human relations and civil rights organization.

    If your company or organization wants to be recognized as a leader in the fight to promote diversity, we invite you to become a member of ADL’s Corporate Leadership Council — the nation’s leading corporate diversity initiative. Additional co-branding, diversity training and recognition benefits are available to Corporate Partners.

    https://www.adl.org/sites/default/files/documents/assets/pdf/about-adl/corporate-partners.pdf
     

    Could you provide evidence of any other lobby that promotes diversity as stridently and effectively as they do? (Hint: read the bold part again... they themselves admit they are the nation's "premier" organization).

    I'll leave you with this quote by the former head of the ADL:


    “America’s pluralistic society is at the heart of Jewish security,” says Abraham Foxman, national director of the Anti-Defamation League – a leading Jewish-Zionist organization. “In the long run,” he continues, “what has made American Jewish life a uniquely positive experience in Diaspora history and which has enabled us to be such important allies for the State of Israel, is the health of a pluralistic, tolerant and inclusive American society.”

    http://ihr.org/other/biden_jewish_role
     

    I’m familiar with organized Jewry’s efforts to push diversity on Western nations. Wasn’t it the ADL that actually coined the phrase “Diversity Is Our Strength”?

    I can’t imagine anyone else coming up with such a stupid idea can you? It’s got Jews written all over it.

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    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    So now you are suggesting that it is obviously Jews who would come up with such a "stupid idea" when the point of concern is that it is, if you accept at least one version of how Jews see Jewish interests and seek to pursue them, a cleverly devised slogan to promote Jewish interests far from stupidly.

    I recall, from many years ago, a fairly conservative Jewish publicist/activist/apparatchik defending multiculturalism in Australia. That was before the folly of the conservative PM he then served in letting many Lebanese into Australia without discrimination became apparent. You could say he was pursuing a Jewish interest in diminishing the power of established Anglo-Celts though I have also heard other Jewish academics refer to the relative absence of anti -Semitism in 1940s/50s/60s Australia when the good old Protestant-Catholic rivalries were still live (and prosperous Jews would have sent their children to private church schools like Scotch, Wesley, X Church of England Grammar).

    The point this mild supporter of multiculturalism sought to emphasise was that the second generation just became assimilated (though I can't remember if he used the word) Australians. It was only perhaps 15 years since the White Australia Policy had formally been abandoned and I think he meant what he said. Apart from unemployed Muslims and a few small groups he wasn't obviously wrong either. Mind you I had my prejudices in favour of Australia's policies reinforced by the favourable impression I got from a recent private hospital stay when i experienved care from 1. a stern Anglo ticking me off for being late 2. a 55 ish Colleen of obvious Irish ancestry 3. Two young female Chinese or Vietnamese X Ray technicians 4. A 35 ish Sri Lankan nurse 5. a 40 ish Punjabi nurse whose Sikh male colleague in s turban was on the same shift 6. The female cardiac surgeon who had arrived from Taiwan at the age of 6. 7. A 30 ish gorgeous and smart black African nurse from Kenya who was as elegant as the Nilotics despite saying she was Bantu (think Tutsi and Hutu intermarriage just down the road). 8. An Anglo or other Euro bioengineer.

    In Australia we do our best to have dumb government but somehow we have escaped the truly appalling government the donor groups and organised numbers (think of all those over pensioned public employees) have inflicted on ordinary Americans since the 1980s (not discounting preparations going back to 1965). As for immigration specifically, the right kind of immigration is fine even for those without existing wealth.

    As to Diversity, strengthening or otherwise, I don't see it as such a powerful slogan in Australia though recently a leftish Racial Discrimination commissioner of Chine-Lau ancestry and an Oxford doctorate called for more diversity in positions of power and influence. Presumably the idea of diversity sounds good when we naturally now condemn conformity and look for enterprise and innovation to improve e everything. There may be also some carry over from the notion of diversification preached to investors....

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  • @Corvinus
    "I’m familiar with organized Jewry’s efforts to push diversity on Western nations."

    Western nations have always been diverse. The English, for example, were derived from the Picts, Britons, Romans, the Celts, and various Germanic tribes. The French came from the Gaulish tribes, who had conquered the Ligures, the Iberians, and the Basques, who then assimilated with the Romans. Of course, you should also recognize E pluribus unum (Out of many, one), which refers to the multitude of people which helped to create America.

    "Wasn’t it the ADL that actually coined the phrase “Diversity Is Our Strength”?"

    I don't know, was it?

    "Could you provide evidence of any other lobby that promotes diversity as stridently and effectively as they do? (Hint: read the bold part again… they themselves admit they are the nation’s “premier” organization)."

    A number of organizations claim they are "premier". That label is other than unique. The Baby Boomers were a lobby who in the 1960's (and continue today) promoted diversity. The ACLU, the Southern Law Poverty Center, and of course various churches are all similar to the ADL in their advocacy.

    Western nations have always been diverse.

    That may be true. But was it the result of a lobby pushing mass immigration from the four corners of the world?

    I don’t know, was it?

    Now you know:

    For some time, the ADL has promoted the slogan “Diversity is Our Strength.” In keeping with this motto, which it claims to have invented, the ADL has devoted effort and resources to persuading Americans — especially younger Americans — to welcome and embrace ever more social, cultural and racial “diversity.” /17

    17. ADL On the Frontline (New York), Summer 1997, p. 8. This issue of the ADL bulletin also noted with some pride that President Clinton, in his Feb. 1997 “State of the Union” address, had given an unexpected boost to what it called the “ADL tag line.” In that address, Clinton said: “My fellow Americans, we must never, ever believe that our diversity is a weakness. It is our greatest strength.”

    http://ihr.org/other/anti-semitism-why-does-it-exist-dec-2013

    The ACLU, the Southern Law Poverty Center, and of course various churches are all similar to the ADL in their advocacy.

    The first two are in common cause with the ADL. As for the churches, were they the ones pushing hardest for the passage of the 1965 Immigration Act?

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    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "That may be true."

    No, it is definitively true that western nations have been diverse.

    "But was it the result of a lobby pushing mass immigration from the four corners of the world?"

    Of course not. The process of how western nations became diverse 500 to 1000 years ago is markedly different than what is occurring now. But "lobbying" for something by someone is indicative of the human race--we desire something to happen, so we try to convince people to do it. Nothing new here. Moreover, the world has become increasingly interconnected ever since Columbus made that journey in 1492, and it is other than surprising that people from around the world have moved from their homeland to a new land. Also, during the second American industrial revolution (1865-1900), American industrialists were clamoring for cheap immigrant labor. They served as the backbone to our rise as the #1 exporter of the world by 1900.

    "Now you know"

    The ADL CLAIMS to have invented this motto. Is there clear, convincing evidence to back up that claim? So we truly do not know for certain.

    "As for the churches, were they the ones pushing hardest for the passage of the 1965 Immigration Act?"

    They certainly had strong support for it.

    "The bill proposed by Celler and Hart advocated replacing the quota system with an annual cap on immigration, regardless of country of origin. During the debate on the proposed legislation, American Catholic leaders voiced strong support for the bill. Since the passage of the 1924 Johnson-Reed Act, the Catholic Church had regularly voiced opposition to the discriminatory features of American immigration law, pointing out that it rested on anti-Catholic bigotry as well as racial prejudice. On June 1, 1965, the director of the Department of Migration, John McCarthy, wrote a letter to the NCWC's General Secretary, Rev. Paul Tanner, stating that the immigration legislation proposed by Celler and Hart was "excellent" and would "eliminate the iniquities and prejudices that have existed in our immigration laws for the past forty years."

    http://www.catholicsinalliance.org/immigrantchurch
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  • @Mikel
    Let's face it, Talha. In the Arabian desert life of the 7th century brutality, ignorance and superstition must have been rampant. Things were not much better elsewhere, granted, but perhaps in Roman-occupied Palestine a few centuries earlier things were a tad more sophisticated. As has been mentioned above, there is an obvious disconnect between the nutty Old Testament and the generally benign Christian narrative.

    The Coran, however, ties in quite well with the Old Testament. Vengeance and terror in the afterlife, plenty of violence in the present and, generally, the kind of narrative that you would expect to be devised by someone from that place and time. It couldn't be otherwise.

    I can understand that tradition, family, conformity with one's social norms and, of course, existential anxiety, still lead people to adhere to the precepts of those ancient books, even if that forces them to perform mental convolutions like the ones you exhibit sometimes. I've seen Christians having similar problems with some passages of the Bible.

    But Islam and the West are pretty much incompatible, especially in these times of Jihad revival. Even some Muslim countries are past Shariah Law. As I understand it, many don't practice stonings, mutilations, beheadings and similar medieval practices.

    I wish you well at a personal level but I don't want your religion bringing its practices and mentality of Medieval Arab origin to the West.

    Best regards,
    Mikel

    The Coran, however, ties in quite well with the Old Testament. Vengeance and terror in the afterlife, plenty of violence in the present and, generally, the kind of narrative that you would expect to be devised by someone from that place and time. It couldn’t be otherwise.

    With that being said, what’s the real difference between the Coran and the Old Testament and between Orthodox Jewry and Islam? Very damned little I’d say.

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  • “Add on the Danes and Normans and take away the Romans, but the main point is that a British racial identity as an unselfconscious and natural mixing of them all has taken almost a thousand years of non-invaded isolation to develop.”

    Those ethnic groups did not refer to themselves as “white” or even identified being united by the “white race”. Furthermore, it is other than surprising that these groups took so long to “mix” given how Europe endured instability. But by 1500, when nation-states were firmly entrenched, European identities were in place.

    “The story seems to be that integration can take a very long time and has to unify around a common identity – often religious.”

    The common identity with Americans are political and social in nature.

    “This has nothing to do with modern “Diversity” and is better described as “Unity in Anti-Diversity”.”

    Actually, European diversity laid the foundation for today’s diversity.

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  • @Wizard of Oz
    Suspicions and doubts I'll grant you but you don't seem interested in anything more than the joy of finding some evil people in control somewhere, somehow. Having noted suspicion about the way the Twin Towers collapsed I put the issues to a high powered physicist. Have you bothered to do as much? Do you even understand the addition of vectors or are you a total scientific innocent who believes fantasists? As to the plane on track to hit WTC7!!! Where do you get that from? And what possible motive would the clever plotters have had for bringing down that building rather than crashing into a symbolically important DC building?

    Having noted suspicion about the way the Twin Towers collapsed I put the issues to a high powered physicist. Have you bothered to do as much?

    I’m not acquainted with any “high powered physicists” like yourself. I have to make do with the architects and engineers of A&E for 9/11 Truth http://www.ae911truth.org/ who are concerned enough about the lies of the official 9/11 story to risk their professional careers.

    Since you probably also support the US destruction of Iran and regime change in Syria + conflict with Russia, what do you see as the optimum US government moves to enable these events?

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    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    I thought you were at least a troll. But you are a fool ill equipped to contribute anything rational on 9/11 issues. Why else would you blow smoke in your last paragraph which contains suggeations about my views and preferences for which you have not the slightest evidence beyond your weird imagination, prompted by your need to cover your embsrrassment at having no qualification by knowledge or intellect to say anything worth reading about the real issues?

    Similarly you proffer that architects and engineers (as they claim to be) risked their careers. Surely there must be a few cases out of 1600 where you can substantiate that? No? Well why say it except to add bluster to a weak argument?
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  • @Corvinus
    "I’m familiar with organized Jewry’s efforts to push diversity on Western nations."

    Western nations have always been diverse. The English, for example, were derived from the Picts, Britons, Romans, the Celts, and various Germanic tribes. The French came from the Gaulish tribes, who had conquered the Ligures, the Iberians, and the Basques, who then assimilated with the Romans. Of course, you should also recognize E pluribus unum (Out of many, one), which refers to the multitude of people which helped to create America.

    "Wasn’t it the ADL that actually coined the phrase “Diversity Is Our Strength”?"

    I don't know, was it?

    "Could you provide evidence of any other lobby that promotes diversity as stridently and effectively as they do? (Hint: read the bold part again… they themselves admit they are the nation’s “premier” organization)."

    A number of organizations claim they are "premier". That label is other than unique. The Baby Boomers were a lobby who in the 1960's (and continue today) promoted diversity. The ACLU, the Southern Law Poverty Center, and of course various churches are all similar to the ADL in their advocacy.

    Western nations have always been diverse. The English, for example, were derived from the Picts, Britons, Romans, the Celts, and various Germanic tribes.

    Add on the Danes and Normans and take away the Romans, but the main point is that a British racial identity as an unselfconscious and natural mixing of them all has taken almost a thousand years of non-invaded isolation to develop.

    Same for Spain in the shorter period after the expulsion of the Moors. The North Africans that remained integrated with the Basques (main ethic component of Spain), Iberians, Germanic Visigoths, and some Romans and Greeks on the Mediterranean.

    The story seems to be that integration can take a very long time and has to unify around a common identity – often religious . This has nothing to do with modern “Diversity” and is better described as “Unity in Anti-Diversity”.

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    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    In case I have been rude elsewhere I proffer my congratulations on your pointing out how long integration may take. Maybe one should add that it can be undone rather quickly. Maybe the alleged exacerbation of differences between Tutsi and Hutu should be considered in this light.
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  • @Corvinus
    "I’m familiar with organized Jewry’s efforts to push diversity on Western nations."

    Western nations have always been diverse. The English, for example, were derived from the Picts, Britons, Romans, the Celts, and various Germanic tribes. The French came from the Gaulish tribes, who had conquered the Ligures, the Iberians, and the Basques, who then assimilated with the Romans. Of course, you should also recognize E pluribus unum (Out of many, one), which refers to the multitude of people which helped to create America.

    "Wasn’t it the ADL that actually coined the phrase “Diversity Is Our Strength”?"

    I don't know, was it?

    "Could you provide evidence of any other lobby that promotes diversity as stridently and effectively as they do? (Hint: read the bold part again… they themselves admit they are the nation’s “premier” organization)."

    A number of organizations claim they are "premier". That label is other than unique. The Baby Boomers were a lobby who in the 1960's (and continue today) promoted diversity. The ACLU, the Southern Law Poverty Center, and of course various churches are all similar to the ADL in their advocacy.

    Western nations have always been diverse. The English, for example, were derived from the Picts, Britons, Romans, the Celts, and various Germanic tribes.

    This is true – don’t forget the Normans who originally hailed from Scandinavia.

    Peace.

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  • I think that has been obvious for years, as a SAIS student in the late 1960s and a Naval Intelligence Officer during the Yom Kippur War, it was clear.

    I cannot offer direct proof, but the toadying by Bush after 911 and the concern with many in the intelligence community to keep Saudi sweet, is far better proof than empty theorizing.

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  • @geokat62

    Those things are brought to you by Jews AND non-Jews. You know, people. Your run of the mill human beings.
     
    I'm familiar with organized Jewry's efforts to push diversity on Western nations. Wasn't it the ADL that actually coined the phrase “Diversity Is Our Strength"?

    Need proof? Here's material they’ve recently posted on their website:


    This is America.This is ADL. (NB – disingenuously referring to 9 pictures of distinct-looking individuals)

    The United States is a vibrant mix of cultures, races, religions and ethnic groups. These differences enhance our nation’s strength, beauty and collective wisdom. Together, we all weave the fabric of our pluralistic society.

    For over 100 years, the Anti-Defamation League has upheld this distinctly American concept by leading the fight against anti-Semitism, bigotry and racism. Today, ADL is the nation’s premier human relations and civil rights organization.

    If your company or organization wants to be recognized as a leader in the fight to promote diversity, we invite you to become a member of ADL’s Corporate Leadership Council — the nation’s leading corporate diversity initiative. Additional co-branding, diversity training and recognition benefits are available to Corporate Partners.

    https://www.adl.org/sites/default/files/documents/assets/pdf/about-adl/corporate-partners.pdf
     

    Could you provide evidence of any other lobby that promotes diversity as stridently and effectively as they do? (Hint: read the bold part again... they themselves admit they are the nation's "premier" organization).

    I'll leave you with this quote by the former head of the ADL:


    “America’s pluralistic society is at the heart of Jewish security,” says Abraham Foxman, national director of the Anti-Defamation League – a leading Jewish-Zionist organization. “In the long run,” he continues, “what has made American Jewish life a uniquely positive experience in Diaspora history and which has enabled us to be such important allies for the State of Israel, is the health of a pluralistic, tolerant and inclusive American society.”

    http://ihr.org/other/biden_jewish_role
     

    “I’m familiar with organized Jewry’s efforts to push diversity on Western nations.”

    Western nations have always been diverse. The English, for example, were derived from the Picts, Britons, Romans, the Celts, and various Germanic tribes. The French came from the Gaulish tribes, who had conquered the Ligures, the Iberians, and the Basques, who then assimilated with the Romans. Of course, you should also recognize E pluribus unum (Out of many, one), which refers to the multitude of people which helped to create America.

    “Wasn’t it the ADL that actually coined the phrase “Diversity Is Our Strength”?”

    I don’t know, was it?

    “Could you provide evidence of any other lobby that promotes diversity as stridently and effectively as they do? (Hint: read the bold part again… they themselves admit they are the nation’s “premier” organization).”

    A number of organizations claim they are “premier”. That label is other than unique. The Baby Boomers were a lobby who in the 1960′s (and continue today) promoted diversity. The ACLU, the Southern Law Poverty Center, and of course various churches are all similar to the ADL in their advocacy.

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    • Replies: @Talha

    Western nations have always been diverse. The English, for example, were derived from the Picts, Britons, Romans, the Celts, and various Germanic tribes.
     
    This is true - don't forget the Normans who originally hailed from Scandinavia.

    Peace.
    , @Miro23

    Western nations have always been diverse. The English, for example, were derived from the Picts, Britons, Romans, the Celts, and various Germanic tribes.
     
    Add on the Danes and Normans and take away the Romans, but the main point is that a British racial identity as an unselfconscious and natural mixing of them all has taken almost a thousand years of non-invaded isolation to develop.

    Same for Spain in the shorter period after the expulsion of the Moors. The North Africans that remained integrated with the Basques (main ethic component of Spain), Iberians, Germanic Visigoths, and some Romans and Greeks on the Mediterranean.

    The story seems to be that integration can take a very long time and has to unify around a common identity - often religious . This has nothing to do with modern "Diversity" and is better described as "Unity in Anti-Diversity".

    , @geokat62

    Western nations have always been diverse.
     
    That may be true. But was it the result of a lobby pushing mass immigration from the four corners of the world?

    I don’t know, was it?
     
    Now you know:

    For some time, the ADL has promoted the slogan “Diversity is Our Strength.” In keeping with this motto, which it claims to have invented, the ADL has devoted effort and resources to persuading Americans -- especially younger Americans -- to welcome and embrace ever more social, cultural and racial “diversity.” /17


    17. ADL On the Frontline (New York), Summer 1997, p. 8. This issue of the ADL bulletin also noted with some pride that President Clinton, in his Feb. 1997 “State of the Union” address, had given an unexpected boost to what it called the “ADL tag line.” In that address, Clinton said: “My fellow Americans, we must never, ever believe that our diversity is a weakness. It is our greatest strength.”

    http://ihr.org/other/anti-semitism-why-does-it-exist-dec-2013
     


    The ACLU, the Southern Law Poverty Center, and of course various churches are all similar to the ADL in their advocacy.
     
    The first two are in common cause with the ADL. As for the churches, were they the ones pushing hardest for the passage of the 1965 Immigration Act?
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  • @anon
    It means you dont know anything about Johnson. His loyalty and fealty to Israel . Hios connection to leakage to letter sent to Eisenhower ( which he was not supposed to elak but leaked to some big Jewish guy who was in the commite of teh immediate ancestor of AIPAC . He did to curry favor with them .He got Forta to rescue him few times Even imidiatley after Kennedy assassination he called him first thing in morning
    He slept with one of the Girls possibly in WH , she was conduit To Israel. He suppressed the investigation going against Weizman institute and "its American Friend for for Weizmann Institute . He was aware of the upcoming invasion by Isarel"

    A friend just alerted me to this informative comment:

    “‘But Sir, It’s an American Ship.’ – Haaretz”
    [Col. Pat Lang expands on the Haaretz article, revealing that “In the course of my duties at the time I read the NSA transcripts quoted above.”

    In a lengthy comment @ 14 July 2017 at 05:42 AM, ‘LondonBob’ offered details on LBJ’s Jewish ancestry, and his career-long service to Jews, Israel, and zionism.

    http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2017/07/httpwwwhaaretzcomus-news1800584.html#comment-6a00d8341c72e153ef01bb09aed26b970d

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    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    LBJ's tiny fraction of Jewish ancestry is so lacking in relevance to anything that matters that you demean youself in mentioning it in this context.
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  • @Wizard of Oz
    There is a problem on the face of your comments in accepting that you have any knowledge of or ability to assess intelligent thinking. Your school of low-grade-autodidact conspiracy theory style of disputation compels this observation. To wit...Where does your extraordinary idea come from that repetitious assertions that "intelligent people know/understand" is any part of persuasive argumemt or contributes to appearance of truth value? Equally "intelligent people don't need to surmise where the push to invade came from" shows either a careless or unintelligent missing of the point of the argument. That point assumes (without necessarily affirming) both the Israel centred desire to Balkanise the ME and the way Rumsfeld, Cheney & co went about taking advantage of 9/11 to attack Iraq. But it also notes that it is unlikely that clever planners of an excuse to attack Iraq would count on an apparent Afghanistan based Al Qaeda attack on American buildings as a sufficiently reliable step toward their Iraq objective to make it worth all the risks of 9/11, including killing thousands of Americans.
    Furthermore you have just repeated assertions about demolitions without seeking to deal with
    (a) the absurdity of Silverstein or anyone not noticeably mad counting on the demolition charges coinciding with where the planes were to hit;
    (b) the simple physics of one big vector in one direction and only a small one at 90 degrees
    (c) the extraordinary idea that someone experienced in "controlled demolutions" would choose to try and achieve it, not from the ground floor, but 90 or 100 levels up. (Another problem occurs to me for the parrot cry about "no steelframed building etc....". Clearly your conspirators would have to know that, given the unusual structure of the Twin Towers, there wasn't actually a problem about bringing them down by destroying the essential structural support at about the 100th level).

    (a) the absurdity of Silverstein or anyone not noticeably mad counting on the demolition charges coinciding with where the planes were to hit;

    Thanks for the good straight line:

    In the spring of 2000, Gelatin and 14 other artists shared free studio space on the 91st floor, where the group’s artmaking appeared to consist of building a clubhouse out of cardboard boxes.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2001/08/18/nyregion/balcony-scene-unseen-atop-world-episode-trade-center-assumes-mythic-qualities.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

    Art for art’s sake, or something else?

    I want to call your attention to the artist groups (E-TEAM and GELATIN) who were selected to be part of the Lower Manhattan Cultural Council (LMCC) World Views / Studioscape …programs that allowed them and other artists to work and live in the WTC in the four years leading up to 9/11 on different floors, including 91 and 92 of the North Tower. Additionally, they were given seven day a week construction access to the WTC that allowed them to freely move all sorts of materials in and out of the complex.

    http://www.markdotzler.com/Mark_Dotzler/WTC_Artists.html

    Please pay particular attention to the two photographs of the WTC at the top Mr. Dotzler’s page, and note how the upper floors of WTC 1 were darkened to display E-TEAM self-promotion 127 Illuminated Windows in March 2001 “… coinciding with where the planes were to hit,” just as the Wizard of Oz has specified.

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    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    I don't know what your line is but I have a few points to raise with you in response to all that. (I had no line until very recently I decided I couldn't find any of the many and varied truther explanations other than absurd although I haven't an overwhelming problem about possible Mossad prior intelligence or highplaced Saudis being involved).

    Can you seriously entertain the idea that someone clever who wanted to provoke a war against the Taliban and Al Qaeda (even assuming it is a plausible way of getting up the later war against Iraq)

    1. would think it necessary to wholly destroy the two buildings at the risk of the means of demolition being discovered before or after the highjackings? (And your story seems to be about just one building).

    2. Would count on planes both hitting at the right place so the demolition from that level would not be obviosly a demolition?

    3. Would count on the externally framed WTC buildings collapsing (always assuming you can find a reason for their total collapse being necessary to the plot) from an explosion blowing out, not the ground floor but the 91st. This is really a problem for those who have trouble with the manner and speed of descent according to the official story. It isn't so much a problem once you accept that it didn't much matter what the cause of the weakening was. Provided the 91st floor structures could no longer hold up several thousand tons of stuff above it you had your collapse. But you wouldn't want to divide the team if you are a truther....
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  • anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Wizard of Oz
    There is a problem on the face of your comments in accepting that you have any knowledge of or ability to assess intelligent thinking. Your school of low-grade-autodidact conspiracy theory style of disputation compels this observation. To wit...Where does your extraordinary idea come from that repetitious assertions that "intelligent people know/understand" is any part of persuasive argumemt or contributes to appearance of truth value? Equally "intelligent people don't need to surmise where the push to invade came from" shows either a careless or unintelligent missing of the point of the argument. That point assumes (without necessarily affirming) both the Israel centred desire to Balkanise the ME and the way Rumsfeld, Cheney & co went about taking advantage of 9/11 to attack Iraq. But it also notes that it is unlikely that clever planners of an excuse to attack Iraq would count on an apparent Afghanistan based Al Qaeda attack on American buildings as a sufficiently reliable step toward their Iraq objective to make it worth all the risks of 9/11, including killing thousands of Americans.
    Furthermore you have just repeated assertions about demolitions without seeking to deal with
    (a) the absurdity of Silverstein or anyone not noticeably mad counting on the demolition charges coinciding with where the planes were to hit;
    (b) the simple physics of one big vector in one direction and only a small one at 90 degrees
    (c) the extraordinary idea that someone experienced in "controlled demolutions" would choose to try and achieve it, not from the ground floor, but 90 or 100 levels up. (Another problem occurs to me for the parrot cry about "no steelframed building etc....". Clearly your conspirators would have to know that, given the unusual structure of the Twin Towers, there wasn't actually a problem about bringing them down by destroying the essential structural support at about the 100th level).

    “To demonstrate the degree to which Jewish Agency plants infiltrated the government and everyday life, a couple of months after one coast guard station was attacked and bombed by the Hagana, it blew up again … but the British were baffled, because this time there had been no attack. They discovered that the construction crew that had rebuilt the station after the previous attack were Hagana, and had simply embedded explosives in the reconstruction, to be detonated when desired.”

    1st Jan 2017
    Mondoweiss

    Primary source is British Archives at London
    Did they do same to WTC ??

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    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    Sort of, the explosives were likely planted during an unprecedented total power shut down not long prior. "Art students" from Israel living illegally in vacant offices were discovered and there are pics online of cartons stacked up bearing company markings of detonator contents. Like you, I smell a rodent or two.
    , @Wizard of Oz
    So?
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  • anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Wizard of Oz
    I take no note of your historical ramblings, only your quoting what I said and your failure to accept it.

    The Vietnam War was an expensive and unpopular venture under Johnson's leadership which was, more than inter alia, damaging his Great Society programs and you really have to find strong positive reasons for Johnson to want to go to war against Egypt to make that theory of yours plausible. Where is the archival material or the memoirs from insiders? No evidence and no motive but you apparently want to believe any nutty story.

    And in general what evidence is it that Johnson did something devious in 1967 that other Presidents didn't behave openly and honestly at all times? We know Johnson, like 99.9 per cent of human beings, could tell lies, but where does that get you on the USS Liberty disaster?

    It means you dont know anything about Johnson. His loyalty and fealty to Israel . Hios connection to leakage to letter sent to Eisenhower ( which he was not supposed to elak but leaked to some big Jewish guy who was in the commite of teh immediate ancestor of AIPAC . He did to curry favor with them .He got Forta to rescue him few times Even imidiatley after Kennedy assassination he called him first thing in morning
    He slept with one of the Girls possibly in WH , she was conduit To Israel. He suppressed the investigation going against Weizman institute and “its American Friend for for Weizmann Institute . He was aware of the upcoming invasion by Isarel”

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    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
    A friend just alerted me to this informative comment:


    "'But Sir, It’s an American Ship.' - Haaretz"
    [Col. Pat Lang expands on the Haaretz article, revealing that "In the course of my duties at the time I read the NSA transcripts quoted above."


    In a lengthy comment @ 14 July 2017 at 05:42 AM, 'LondonBob' offered details on LBJ's Jewish ancestry, and his career-long service to Jews, Israel, and zionism.

    http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2017/07/httpwwwhaaretzcomus-news1800584.html#comment-6a00d8341c72e153ef01bb09aed26b970d

    , @Wizard of Oz
    I suppose your standards are higher but you thought yo could get away with an incoherent ramble after finidhing the port on your own if you used "anon".

    I was nonetheless stimulated to folliw up your suggestion that you knew stufc about Johnson that I should know. Having spent quite a long time on searches connecting Johnson and Jews,Jewish ancestry, Robert Caro, Israel etc. I find no reason to think you knowledge of or thoughts about LBJ are worth a damn. Have you read Caro's biography - so far 4 of the 5 volumes - of Johnson? I suppose you would say that Caro's Jewish ancestry meant that your confused ideas about Johnson and Jews or Israel didn't get a run but that you have some secret source of knowledge not tainted by the Ivy League and a distinguished career as journalist and biographer (I wonder how you would fit Caro's famous biography of Robert Moses into the picture).

    Regardless of whether you actually know anything relevant about Johnson you might care to look at the records - easily found on line - of Abba Eban's discussions in DC with Macnamara, Dean Rusk and LBJ himself in the last days of May 1967. The idea that LBJ wanted anyone to attack Egypt just then is so utterly absurd that it qualifies only as ludicrous.

    Please don't bother to try again just mouthing off with vaguely imagined connections of no probative value. There is quite a lot of stuff to be read if you want to understand LBJ's concerns in May/June 1967.
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  • Does anyone know why all the ex-CIA, ex-NSA, ex-FBI, and ex-Intelligence community people on TV always make themselves look like such dolts? I was watching CNN the other day in a diner after the whole Don Jr. thing came up and here was this “expert” going on about how the FSB does what it does to get some foreign person to become an FSB asset. I was amazed that all the dolts at CNN were pretending he was actually worth listening to. On Tucker Carlson we had another one of these guys who at least admitted that the previous Congressman talking about Rt.com and Russian trolls didn’t make much sense but he still prattled on about how we have to “confront” Russia without ever explaining why or what he meant by confronting and what it might ultimately mean if the Russians don’t like being confronted?

    Are these people hanging around DC in lobbying positions and are brought in because they will say anything somebody handing them a check wants them to?

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    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    "I was watching CNN the other day"

    I think I see the problem here...
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  • @Astraea
    https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2011/10/25/the-doenmeh-the-middle-easts-most-whispered-secret-part-i.html

    The Saudi "royal" family are not Muslims. They and their sect are Jews pretending to be Muslim. The Wahhabi sect, or cult, is the source of all the terrorists in the ME and throughout the World. They have been busy everywhere - causing unrest in the Muslim areas of China and TRAINING them in their monstrous methods, and upsetting the more peaceful Muslim countries such as Indonesia.

    They are now all over the World - but they are NOT Muslims. They are crypto Jews!

    That is why they are with "Israel". They, however, are the real Semitic Jews who originated in Yemen where as the "Jews"! in "Israel" are from Eastern Europe and are not at all Semitic. They like to add "bin" or "bin" to their names and invent Arab sounding names, but a person such as Netanayahoo is not Semitic. They are Khazars and originally from Mongolia - along time ago, but they still have the monstrously cruel ways of those "hordes".

    There is a country in SE Russia now, a fully developed legally constituted country, called Birobidjhan. It is more or less where the European Jews originated and it was handed to the Jews as a Jewish country by Stalin in around 1928. It still is a Jewish country but there are not many Jews there! They invaded and are still occupying the country of Palestine. (Even Herodotus called it Palestine!)

    Why did they do so when they have a country of their very own? Birobidjhan is about the same size as Switzerland but far more fertile. The central city, called Birobidjhan, is modern and has air and rail connections to Moscow.

    WHY do they not want to live there? It is also close to China where there are many Jews. WHY did they go to Palestine and pretend that they come from there???

    The ancient little kingdom which was called "Israel" in the Old Testament, was utterly destroyed by Senacherib because the ruler of chief (they like to call them "kings" in the OT!) annoyed him. The ONLY "Jew or Hebrew or Habiru there was the wife of Ahab. Her name was Jezebel and she came from Phoenicia.

    Read "The Bible Unearthed" by Israel Finkelstein, Senior at the Archaeological Department at Tel Aviv University. Watch the fascinating Youtube video called "The Walls Come Tumblin' Down."

    Birobidjhan

    Even Stalin wanted Jews as far away as possible, LOL!!!!!

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  • @L.K
    J.S: "Why would anyone waste his time on that thing?"

    Well, I bet 'wizard of trolling', for one, did NOT read it.

    Well, I bet ‘wizard of trolling’, for one, did NOT read it.

    I agree, and you’d think that the Blizzard of Ooze would know enough to follow the yellow brick road.

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  • @Rurik

    . The idea that LBJ in the middle of the Vietnam War wanted to have Ameticans killed to contrive an excuse for the US to attack Egypt is beyond mad
     
    why?

    our presidents and the deepstate have been lying us into wars for over a hundred years now, longer if you include the 'Sinking of the Maine' lie.

    and we all know the reason we were dragged into WWI is because of the Balfour Declaration, don't we wiz?

    so yea, obviously the attack on the Liberty was intended to be a false flag attack to blame on Egypt. Duh.

    Just like the Lavon affair, huh wiz?

    just like 9/11 was intended as their 'new Pearl Harbor', from the goons at the PNAC

    with General Clark's seven nations as the victims of this latest treachery from our bestest buddies ever, who sat there and filmed as Americans were slaughtered in a ball of fire, and then celebrated by 'dancing' and 'high-fiving'.

    "it's very good"

    charming eh wiz?

    I take no note of your historical ramblings, only your quoting what I said and your failure to accept it.

    The Vietnam War was an expensive and unpopular venture under Johnson’s leadership which was, more than inter alia, damaging his Great Society programs and you really have to find strong positive reasons for Johnson to want to go to war against Egypt to make that theory of yours plausible. Where is the archival material or the memoirs from insiders? No evidence and no motive but you apparently want to believe any nutty story.

    And in general what evidence is it that Johnson did something devious in 1967 that other Presidents didn’t behave openly and honestly at all times? We know Johnson, like 99.9 per cent of human beings, could tell lies, but where does that get you on the USS Liberty disaster?

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    • Replies: @anon
    It means you dont know anything about Johnson. His loyalty and fealty to Israel . Hios connection to leakage to letter sent to Eisenhower ( which he was not supposed to elak but leaked to some big Jewish guy who was in the commite of teh immediate ancestor of AIPAC . He did to curry favor with them .He got Forta to rescue him few times Even imidiatley after Kennedy assassination he called him first thing in morning
    He slept with one of the Girls possibly in WH , she was conduit To Israel. He suppressed the investigation going against Weizman institute and "its American Friend for for Weizmann Institute . He was aware of the upcoming invasion by Isarel"
    , @Rurik

    Johnson to want to go to war against Egypt to make that theory of yours plausible.
     
    not Johnson per se, but rather the zio-deepstate assassins who placed him in the White House as their poodle

    Where is the archival material or the memoirs from insiders?
     
    lol!

    No evidence and no motive
     
    the motive was to get America to fight Israel's wars for them.

    let that sink in for a moment, and then ponder its modern day implications


    We know Johnson, like 99.9 per cent of human beings, could tell lies, but where does that get you on the USS Liberty disaster?
     
    umm, that Israel and the ZUS lied about it?

    that is was an attempted false flag to get America to fight Israel's wars for them, just like 9/11.

    is that so hard for you to comprehend 'wizard'?

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  • @Miro23
    You don't need to be Sherlock Holmes to find something suspicious in the fact that 1) two hijacked airliners flew into two steel frame high rises which supposedly collapsed due to raging fires (that has almost gone out) 2) a third hijacked airliner on course/time to hit a third steel frame high rise building in the same place didn't make it and crashed in a field but the building collapsed anyway.

    If you want an appreciative audience, try commenting over at the Washington Post. They're big supporters of the Neo-cons, Israel, every ME war, Hillary Clinton and they're 100% committed to the government 9/11 story. They're also hot for destroying Iran which is probably on your wish list.

    Suspicions and doubts I’ll grant you but you don’t seem interested in anything more than the joy of finding some evil people in control somewhere, somehow. Having noted suspicion about the way the Twin Towers collapsed I put the issues to a high powered physicist. Have you bothered to do as much? Do you even understand the addition of vectors or are you a total scientific innocent who believes fantasists? As to the plane on track to hit WTC7!!! Where do you get that from? And what possible motive would the clever plotters have had for bringing down that building rather than crashing into a symbolically important DC building?

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    • Replies: @Miro23

    Having noted suspicion about the way the Twin Towers collapsed I put the issues to a high powered physicist. Have you bothered to do as much?
     
    I'm not acquainted with any "high powered physicists" like yourself. I have to make do with the architects and engineers of A&E for 9/11 Truth http://www.ae911truth.org/ who are concerned enough about the lies of the official 9/11 story to risk their professional careers.

    Since you probably also support the US destruction of Iran and regime change in Syria + conflict with Russia, what do you see as the optimum US government moves to enable these events?
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  • @jacques sheete

    How much, if any of it, have you read of the official 9/11 commission report?
     
    I have a question too.

    Why would anyone waste his time on that thing?

    Do you regard it as acceptable to assert that it is all a fairy tale and obvious lies without reading it?

    I do not refer to the possibly just acceptable practice of reading some of the critics and then, without trusting them to have got it all right, to start fossicking around for some reliable facts on which to make an assessment for oneself. Even that doesn’t absolve people from doing their own reading of the report if they wish to have their certainties taken seriously.

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  • @L.K
    J.S: "Why would anyone waste his time on that thing?"

    Well, I bet 'wizard of trolling', for one, did NOT read it.

    You don’t read much or do people the courtesy of not wasting their time do you? I actually said I hadn’t read most of it!

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  • @NoseytheDuke
    Intelligent people understand that it's highly unlikely that OBL had anything to do with it at all which is what he himself stated. The videos of "him" confessing feature a fake OBL that is clearly not him so the question is, who would benefit from creating such a fraudulent "confession"? OBL was also in the late stage of renal failure at that time too.

    I doubt that SA had much to do with it either other than providing some of the funding, likely to set them up as patsies for later on or when the plot began to unravel in the minds of the greater public. SA lacks the kind of technical knowhow and would have found it much more difficult to infiltrate the towers for the installation of the demolition charges that were used. Again, intelligent people understand much of this and the more anyone learns about it the clearer it becomes as to exactly which US "ally" was actually responsible.

    Intelligent people don't need to surmise where the push to invade Iraq came from, they can simply recall the names of those who manipulated both "defence intelligence" and traitorous media to take advantage of a traumatised public and unscrupulous politicians. Names like Kristol, Pearle, Wolfowitz, Feith and more.

    Intelligent people know this Wiz but disingenuous idiots such as yourself refuse to so that you can continue to play your little games and post your barely comprehensible ramblings that merely prove your idiocy and your total lack of decency. BUT, the pendulum is swinging back and the old adage of being unable to fool all of the people all of the time is again proving to be true and once the tipping point is reached it will be very uncomfortable for some and hopefully that will include "useful idiots" like yourself.

    There is a problem on the face of your comments in accepting that you have any knowledge of or ability to assess intelligent thinking. Your school of low-grade-autodidact conspiracy theory style of disputation compels this observation. To wit…Where does your extraordinary idea come from that repetitious assertions that “intelligent people know/understand” is any part of persuasive argumemt or contributes to appearance of truth value? Equally “intelligent people don’t need to surmise where the push to invade came from” shows either a careless or unintelligent missing of the point of the argument. That point assumes (without necessarily affirming) both the Israel centred desire to Balkanise the ME and the way Rumsfeld, Cheney & co went about taking advantage of 9/11 to attack Iraq. But it also notes that it is unlikely that clever planners of an excuse to attack Iraq would count on an apparent Afghanistan based Al Qaeda attack on American buildings as a sufficiently reliable step toward their Iraq objective to make it worth all the risks of 9/11, including killing thousands of Americans.
    Furthermore you have just repeated assertions about demolitions without seeking to deal with
    (a) the absurdity of Silverstein or anyone not noticeably mad counting on the demolition charges coinciding with where the planes were to hit;
    (b) the simple physics of one big vector in one direction and only a small one at 90 degrees
    (c) the extraordinary idea that someone experienced in “controlled demolutions” would choose to try and achieve it, not from the ground floor, but 90 or 100 levels up. (Another problem occurs to me for the parrot cry about “no steelframed building etc….”. Clearly your conspirators would have to know that, given the unusual structure of the Twin Towers, there wasn’t actually a problem about bringing them down by destroying the essential structural support at about the 100th level).

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    • Replies: @anon
    "To demonstrate the degree to which Jewish Agency plants infiltrated the government and everyday life, a couple of months after one coast guard station was attacked and bombed by the Hagana, it blew up again … but the British were baffled, because this time there had been no attack. They discovered that the construction crew that had rebuilt the station after the previous attack were Hagana, and had simply embedded explosives in the reconstruction, to be detonated when desired."

    1st Jan 2017
    Mondoweiss

    Primary source is British Archives at London
    Did they do same to WTC ??

    , @Sparkon

    (a) the absurdity of Silverstein or anyone not noticeably mad counting on the demolition charges coinciding with where the planes were to hit;
     
    Thanks for the good straight line:

    In the spring of 2000, Gelatin and 14 other artists shared free studio space on the 91st floor, where the group's artmaking appeared to consist of building a clubhouse out of cardboard boxes.
     
    http://www.nytimes.com/2001/08/18/nyregion/balcony-scene-unseen-atop-world-episode-trade-center-assumes-mythic-qualities.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

    Art for art's sake, or something else?

    I want to call your attention to the artist groups (E-TEAM and GELATIN) who were selected to be part of the Lower Manhattan Cultural Council (LMCC) World Views / Studioscape ...programs that allowed them and other artists to work and live in the WTC in the four years leading up to 9/11 on different floors, including 91 and 92 of the North Tower. Additionally, they were given seven day a week construction access to the WTC that allowed them to freely move all sorts of materials in and out of the complex.
     
    http://www.markdotzler.com/Mark_Dotzler/WTC_Artists.html

    Please pay particular attention to the two photographs of the WTC at the top Mr. Dotzler's page, and note how the upper floors of WTC 1 were darkened to display E-TEAM self-promotion 127 Illuminated Windows in March 2001 "... coinciding with where the planes were to hit," just as the Wizard of Oz has specified.
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  • https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2011/10/25/the-doenmeh-the-middle-easts-most-whispered-secret-part-i.html

    The Saudi “royal” family are not Muslims. They and their sect are Jews pretending to be Muslim. The Wahhabi sect, or cult, is the source of all the terrorists in the ME and throughout the World. They have been busy everywhere – causing unrest in the Muslim areas of China and TRAINING them in their monstrous methods, and upsetting the more peaceful Muslim countries such as Indonesia.

    They are now all over the World – but they are NOT Muslims. They are crypto Jews!

    That is why they are with “Israel”. They, however, are the real Semitic Jews who originated in Yemen where as the “Jews”! in “Israel” are from Eastern Europe and are not at all Semitic. They like to add “bin” or “bin” to their names and invent Arab sounding names, but a person such as Netanayahoo is not Semitic. They are Khazars and originally from Mongolia – along time ago, but they still have the monstrously cruel ways of those “hordes”.

    There is a country in SE Russia now, a fully developed legally constituted country, called Birobidjhan. It is more or less where the European Jews originated and it was handed to the Jews as a Jewish country by Stalin in around 1928. It still is a Jewish country but there are not many Jews there! They invaded and are still occupying the country of Palestine. (Even Herodotus called it Palestine!)

    Why did they do so when they have a country of their very own? Birobidjhan is about the same size as Switzerland but far more fertile. The central city, called Birobidjhan, is modern and has air and rail connections to Moscow.

    WHY do they not want to live there? It is also close to China where there are many Jews. WHY did they go to Palestine and pretend that they come from there???

    The ancient little kingdom which was called “Israel” in the Old Testament, was utterly destroyed by Senacherib because the ruler of chief (they like to call them “kings” in the OT!) annoyed him. The ONLY “Jew or Hebrew or Habiru there was the wife of Ahab. Her name was Jezebel and she came from Phoenicia.

    Read “The Bible Unearthed” by Israel Finkelstein, Senior at the Archaeological Department at Tel Aviv University. Watch the fascinating Youtube video called “The Walls Come Tumblin’ Down.”

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    • Replies: @Z-man

    Birobidjhan
     
    Even Stalin wanted Jews as far away as possible, LOL!!!!!
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  • @ANON
    Most American Muslims own crooked criminal convenience stores. They have huge profits because they:

    1 sell lottery tickets to derelicts and stupid poor people.

    2 sell alcohol to derelicts who sit outside drinking it and harassing people

    3 but food stamps for 30 cents on the dollar from people on welfare.

    4 send friends and relatives to get free food staples from food banks and then sell the food in their stores.

    5 buy day, actually several day old bread and pastries from the bakery outlets and sell it as fresh in their sleazy little stores.

    6 belong to major networks of shoplifters who steal from stores and re sell the items. This shoplifting is not just grabbing items for personal use but organized shoplifting. Ever wonder why those 40 ounce cabs of dried baby formula are kept in locked cabinets in some supermarkets? It's because it's stolen from supermarkets and resold in squalid Muslim convenience stores.

    7 belong to nationwide networks of cigarette thieves who steal packages of cigarettes direct from the factories and put forged tax stamps on them. Dearborn Michigan is the headquarters of the very well organized billion dollar stolen cigarette tax fraud criminal organizations

    8. Obviously Muslim business owners never pay any kind of taxes and are often caught.

    9. The medical engineering and other college departments in Muslim countries are totally corrupt. The students can and do get their degrees without even going to class. And of course hiring a professional al test taker to take the certification or licensing exams is routine for Muslims.

    I just assume that any professional certificate held by a Muslim was obtained by criminal deceit and fraud.

    10. Muslim gas stations routinely rig the pumps so as to register a couple gallons more than is actually pumped into the gas tank. Paying for 2 gallons more than you actually obtained is nothing.

    The real problem with buying gas with a credit card at a Muslim station often results in your bank accounts raided and a second mortgage obtained on your house.

    I only allow White Americans and Hispanics to touch my car.

    11. Muslim contractors. To obtain a contractors license one must obtain an affidavit from a licensed contractor that one has worked for that contractor for 5 years and has demonstrated competency in all aspects of the trade. That allows one to take the contractors exam. If the exam is passed then the license is issued.

    As soon as one Muslim from the clan gets his contractors license he sells the affidavits for a $500 to a couple thousand dollars to friends and relatives. And then the professional test takers take the exam.

    I got a crooked little operation in my neighborhood shot down. Because they were Persians with beards and sneered at me with contempt and disdain because I'm a woman I rightly assumed they were Muslims instead of Jews, zorastrians or Chaldean Catholics

    The Persian Muslims rented a space behind a gas station for a little car detailing operation. Because of the freeway dust I thought I'd get the interior detailed. So I asked them how much. They said " depends on how dirty the car is" I noticed there were no credit card signs so I asked them if they took credit cards they said no. Well, I knew exactly what they would do. For a slipshod ordinary car wash they would refuse to give the car back unless the sucker gave something like $800 cash. And they'd do that macho man menacing posturing thing Muslims think will frighten the infidel into obedience.
    So I wrote an online and snail mail report to the consumer fraud division of the district attorney's office.

    They set up a sting operation with a WOMAN investigator. Sure nuff the Muslims demanded $700 to get the car back because it was " so dirty". Because they grabbed her while bullying her,assault and battery on a law enforcement officer was added to the extortion and consumer fraud charges.

    One thing Muslim businesses do is this. The Muslim owner who is really named Ali calls a vendor. The sales critter comes but uncle Mohammed pretends to be Ali. Mohammed agrees to a huge order with a minimal down payment. The goods arrive but the monthly payments don't.

    When the vendor sues to get the payments Ali comes to court and testifies that he wasn't there and has no idea of who this Mohammed is.

    A typical Muslim scam is setting up a copy shop. Those copy machines cost about $300,000 new. The Muslim buys them with a minimum down payment and then sells them for $100,000.

    Even if the degrees are authentic, if the degree holder went to university in a Muslim country, there is no guarantee that he or she ever went to class.

    When the Arab countries were under Turkish control the Turks would not hire Muslim Arabs for government jobs. It was either Jewish or Christian locals, Turks or Europeans from the Turkish European territories.
    And that Ramadan fasting? I fast completely 2 days a week and only eat one meal a day 5 days a week. The reason is I'm normal thin and want to stay normal thin. The only way I can stay 120 pds at 5ft 3 is by fasting. So I do.

    Not eating all day and gorging like a pig at night isn't fasting. It's gorging like a pig all night. Fasting is no big deal. Every actor and actress in the world has to do it sometimes. For instance the singer Beyoncé is a full figured plump woman. She had to be very thin, not normal thin for her role in Dream Girls. She lost 40 pounds in 2 months by fasting and eating very little.
    Some of the male actors in the movie Train Spotting were normal thin but lost 30 pounds for their roles by fasting.

    If they fast so much why is every Muslim woman I see in her ugly robes 100 pounds overweight? Crooked Muslim men and 250 pound Muslim women, my multicultural paradise is full of them.

    BTW those educated professional Muslim doctors have a very very high rate of medical insurance fraud and malpractice settlements because as well as being typical corrupt thieving Muslims they have fake degrees and are incompetent.
    .

    I haven’t had that much laugh in a long time. I wanted to reply to this post but I couldn’t stop laughing long enough to write a coherent sentence. I gave up. ANON and Anon are quite a pair. They must drive all over the town asking the nationalities of all those gas station people before buying gas from an honest white Anglo-Saxon. I give credit to Ron Unz for reading through this garbage and still keep his sanity.

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  • @jacques sheete

    How much, if any of it, have you read of the official 9/11 commission report?
     
    I have a question too.

    Why would anyone waste his time on that thing?

    J.S: “Why would anyone waste his time on that thing?”

    Well, I bet ‘wizard of trolling’, for one, did NOT read it.

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    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    You don't read much or do people the courtesy of not wasting their time do you? I actually said I hadn't read most of it!
    , @jacques sheete

    Well, I bet ‘wizard of trolling’, for one, did NOT read it.
     
    I agree, and you'd think that the Blizzard of Ooze would know enough to follow the yellow brick road.
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  • @SolontoCroesus
    In which century was Timbuktu the center of scholarship and learning?

    In which century was Timbuktu the center of scholarship and learning?

    Probably around the time they invented central banks, fractional reserve banking, gangster banking, bloated centralized gubbermint, wage and tax slavery, limited liability (or no personal liability) corporations, mass indoctrination, industrial grade warfare and mass murder, atomic weapons, poison gases and Agent Orange, but I could be wrong.

    Is Timbuktu part of Arabia?

    Scholarship and learning yi say?

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  • @Zenarchy
    If you look at genetics, you will find out that less than 1/3 of modern Iranian genetics comes from ancient Iranians, most of the rest from Arabs. Look it up, though it will take some time...

    Although, even the Eastern Iranian speakers (who has survived the Arabic onslought) with high percentage of the Aryan R1a haplogroup, such as Tajiks or Iranic speaking Afghans, had accepted Islam. Not sure how much they contributed 'creatively and profoundly', though.

    If you don't believe me, check how many Pamiris in Tajikistan look:
    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-4N7gomy7JXU/TlR35UiOJyI/AAAAAAAAAnk/4Qd5FxvV9q4/s1600/Pamiri+faces+6.jpg

    “If you look at genetics, you will find out that less than 1/3 of modern Iranian genetics comes from ancient Iranians, most of the rest from Arabs”

    Laughable and totally false statement. The genetic studies show none of that.

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  • @anarchyst
    It is apparent that you missed my point...Islam and Judaism are not religions, but are all-encompassing political and social systems that govern every aspect of an adherent's life. This is why they should be required to register as "agents of a foreign government".
    As to "third-class" status, moslem women hold "second class" status as they are moslem. This makes "dhimmis" third-class...
    Regards,

    Cults really.

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  • @jacques sheete

    In the Arabian desert life of the 7th century brutality, ignorance and superstition must have been rampant.
     
    " Brutality, ignorance and superstition?"

    Sounds like 20th century Europe and Amerika, but on a much smaller scale, I bet.

    In which century was Timbuktu the center of scholarship and learning?

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    • Replies: @jacques sheete

    In which century was Timbuktu the center of scholarship and learning?

     

    Probably around the time they invented central banks, fractional reserve banking, gangster banking, bloated centralized gubbermint, wage and tax slavery, limited liability (or no personal liability) corporations, mass indoctrination, industrial grade warfare and mass murder, atomic weapons, poison gases and Agent Orange, but I could be wrong.

    Is Timbuktu part of Arabia?

    Scholarship and learning yi say?

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  • @Mikel
    Let's face it, Talha. In the Arabian desert life of the 7th century brutality, ignorance and superstition must have been rampant. Things were not much better elsewhere, granted, but perhaps in Roman-occupied Palestine a few centuries earlier things were a tad more sophisticated. As has been mentioned above, there is an obvious disconnect between the nutty Old Testament and the generally benign Christian narrative.

    The Coran, however, ties in quite well with the Old Testament. Vengeance and terror in the afterlife, plenty of violence in the present and, generally, the kind of narrative that you would expect to be devised by someone from that place and time. It couldn't be otherwise.

    I can understand that tradition, family, conformity with one's social norms and, of course, existential anxiety, still lead people to adhere to the precepts of those ancient books, even if that forces them to perform mental convolutions like the ones you exhibit sometimes. I've seen Christians having similar problems with some passages of the Bible.

    But Islam and the West are pretty much incompatible, especially in these times of Jihad revival. Even some Muslim countries are past Shariah Law. As I understand it, many don't practice stonings, mutilations, beheadings and similar medieval practices.

    I wish you well at a personal level but I don't want your religion bringing its practices and mentality of Medieval Arab origin to the West.

    Best regards,
    Mikel

    In the Arabian desert life of the 7th century brutality, ignorance and superstition must have been rampant.

    ” Brutality, ignorance and superstition?”

    Sounds like 20th century Europe and Amerika, but on a much smaller scale, I bet.

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    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
    In which century was Timbuktu the center of scholarship and learning?
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  • @IvyMike
    What is there in this article that got the ignorant racists and vicious anti- semis so animated. My Dad killed fascists in WW2 and was proud of it. What a bunch of sub-vermin.

    My Dad killed fascists in WW2 and was proud of it. What a bunch of sub-vermin.

    He was proud of it? Was he proud of the fact that the “fascists” were the only ones with cojones enough to stand up to Stalin and the Comintern?

    If yer daddy dunnit, then yer old enough to start getting a clue.

    Here’s a primer, from Murray Rothbard, who was a Jew with a clue.

    “… this entire myth, so prevalent then and even now about Hitler, and about the Japanese, is a tissue of fallacies from beginning to end. Every plank in this nightmare evidence is either completely untrue or not entirely the truth.

    If people should learn this intellectual fraud about Hitler’s Germany, then they will begin to ask questions, and searching questions…”

    - Murray Rothbard, Review of The Origins of the Second World War, 1966

    http://mises.org/daily/2592

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  • @Wizard of Oz
    You really deserve a medal for chutzpah! You complain about unidentified questions and ignore the challenge of my positive #80 completely. Where is your coherent account of 9/11 which can be contrasted favourably with a "fairy tale" and "complete fraud"? BTW are you too cognitively depressed to notice Carroll Price's itredeemable stupidity? It is stupid for him to characterise the 9/11 report in a way that suggests it is the work of people far too clumsy and inept to carry off the suggested 9/11 conspiracy or to be the minions of the clever conspirators. (For the simple minded I had better explain that clever conspirators don't allow reports that anyone with "half a brain" can tell etc etc.).

    Can you at least concede that ObL would have been happy to draw the US into a mire fighting the Taleban and that he would have approved multiple plane crashes in the US as a way of possibly achieving that? And do you think anyone plotting to get the US to attack Iraq would have thought an actual or apparently Afghan based attack on the Twin Towers was a sufficiently reliable way to make it happen? My answers of course are not questions. They are assertions as you can't help knowing.

    Intelligent people understand that it’s highly unlikely that OBL had anything to do with it at all which is what he himself stated. The videos of “him” confessing feature a fake OBL that is clearly not him so the question is, who would benefit from creating such a fraudulent “confession”? OBL was also in the late stage of renal failure at that time too.

    I doubt that SA had much to do with it either other than providing some of the funding, likely to set them up as patsies for later on or when the plot began to unravel in the minds of the greater public. SA lacks the kind of technical knowhow and would have found it much more difficult to infiltrate the towers for the installation of the demolition charges that were used. Again, intelligent people understand much of this and the more anyone learns about it the clearer it becomes as to exactly which US “ally” was actually responsible.

    Intelligent people don’t need to surmise where the push to invade Iraq came from, they can simply recall the names of those who manipulated both “defence intelligence” and traitorous media to take advantage of a traumatised public and unscrupulous politicians. Names like Kristol, Pearle, Wolfowitz, Feith and more.

    Intelligent people know this Wiz but disingenuous idiots such as yourself refuse to so that you can continue to play your little games and post your barely comprehensible ramblings that merely prove your idiocy and your total lack of decency. BUT, the pendulum is swinging back and the old adage of being unable to fool all of the people all of the time is again proving to be true and once the tipping point is reached it will be very uncomfortable for some and hopefully that will include “useful idiots” like yourself.

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    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    There is a problem on the face of your comments in accepting that you have any knowledge of or ability to assess intelligent thinking. Your school of low-grade-autodidact conspiracy theory style of disputation compels this observation. To wit...Where does your extraordinary idea come from that repetitious assertions that "intelligent people know/understand" is any part of persuasive argumemt or contributes to appearance of truth value? Equally "intelligent people don't need to surmise where the push to invade came from" shows either a careless or unintelligent missing of the point of the argument. That point assumes (without necessarily affirming) both the Israel centred desire to Balkanise the ME and the way Rumsfeld, Cheney & co went about taking advantage of 9/11 to attack Iraq. But it also notes that it is unlikely that clever planners of an excuse to attack Iraq would count on an apparent Afghanistan based Al Qaeda attack on American buildings as a sufficiently reliable step toward their Iraq objective to make it worth all the risks of 9/11, including killing thousands of Americans.
    Furthermore you have just repeated assertions about demolitions without seeking to deal with
    (a) the absurdity of Silverstein or anyone not noticeably mad counting on the demolition charges coinciding with where the planes were to hit;
    (b) the simple physics of one big vector in one direction and only a small one at 90 degrees
    (c) the extraordinary idea that someone experienced in "controlled demolutions" would choose to try and achieve it, not from the ground floor, but 90 or 100 levels up. (Another problem occurs to me for the parrot cry about "no steelframed building etc....". Clearly your conspirators would have to know that, given the unusual structure of the Twin Towers, there wasn't actually a problem about bringing them down by destroying the essential structural support at about the 100th level).
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  • @Corvinus
    "No matter how you “slice it”, Islamic dhimmitude” IS third-class citizenship and is NOT acceptable in western society."

    Except Americans, for example, generally do not refer to themselves as "westerners" or "defenders of Western Civilization". This fetish by a number of posters here both astounds and puzzles me.

    "If they want to bring their backward 14th-century ways to the west, they might as well stay in their own countries. We don’t need them here…"

    Thank you very much for your opinion on this matter.

    "Judaic supremacy is much more refined and insidious, jews demanding their right to live as a separate culture while insisting that “the rest of us” accept cultural genocide by pushing pornography, cultural debasement, “multiculturalism” and “diversity” on the rest of us"

    Those things are brought to you by Jews AND non-Jews. You know, people. Your run of the mill human beings.

    "…while bribing our leaders and infiltrating our government and public institutions while screaming “muh holocaust™ and six-million” when they encounter those of us who KNOW the truth about their lies and devious behavior."

    The truth is the Holocaust occurred and millions of Jews died.

    "I stand by my statements that both Judaism and Islam are foreign political and social system that have no place in western society. adherents to these systems should be required to register as “agents of a foreign government” with the U S State department, pending review of their cases for mandatory deportation."

    Except there is one problem here, and that American citizens who practice Judaism and Islam are protected from such a process from being implemented. Do you honestly believe that your proposal would remotely gain traction in our State Department, let alone the general American population?

    Listen, how about you deport yourself if you do not like it in our nation?

    Those things are brought to you by Jews AND non-Jews. You know, people. Your run of the mill human beings.

    I’m familiar with organized Jewry’s efforts to push diversity on Western nations. Wasn’t it the ADL that actually coined the phrase “Diversity Is Our Strength”?

    Need proof? Here’s material they’ve recently posted on their website:

    This is America.This is ADL. (NB – disingenuously referring to 9 pictures of distinct-looking individuals)

    The United States is a vibrant mix of cultures, races, religions and ethnic groups. These differences enhance our nation’s strength, beauty and collective wisdom. Together, we all weave the fabric of our pluralistic society.

    For over 100 years, the Anti-Defamation League has upheld this distinctly American concept by leading the fight against anti-Semitism, bigotry and racism. Today, ADL is the nation’s premier human relations and civil rights organization.

    If your company or organization wants to be recognized as a leader in the fight to promote diversity, we invite you to become a member of ADL’s Corporate Leadership Council — the nation’s leading corporate diversity initiative. Additional co-branding, diversity training and recognition benefits are available to Corporate Partners.

    https://www.adl.org/sites/default/files/documents/assets/pdf/about-adl/corporate-partners.pdf

    Could you provide evidence of any other lobby that promotes diversity as stridently and effectively as they do? (Hint: read the bold part again… they themselves admit they are the nation’s “premier” organization).

    I’ll leave you with this quote by the former head of the ADL:

    “America’s pluralistic society is at the heart of Jewish security,” says Abraham Foxman, national director of the Anti-Defamation League – a leading Jewish-Zionist organization. “In the long run,” he continues, “what has made American Jewish life a uniquely positive experience in Diaspora history and which has enabled us to be such important allies for the State of Israel, is the health of a pluralistic, tolerant and inclusive American society.”

    http://ihr.org/other/biden_jewish_role

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    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "I’m familiar with organized Jewry’s efforts to push diversity on Western nations."

    Western nations have always been diverse. The English, for example, were derived from the Picts, Britons, Romans, the Celts, and various Germanic tribes. The French came from the Gaulish tribes, who had conquered the Ligures, the Iberians, and the Basques, who then assimilated with the Romans. Of course, you should also recognize E pluribus unum (Out of many, one), which refers to the multitude of people which helped to create America.

    "Wasn’t it the ADL that actually coined the phrase “Diversity Is Our Strength”?"

    I don't know, was it?

    "Could you provide evidence of any other lobby that promotes diversity as stridently and effectively as they do? (Hint: read the bold part again… they themselves admit they are the nation’s “premier” organization)."

    A number of organizations claim they are "premier". That label is other than unique. The Baby Boomers were a lobby who in the 1960's (and continue today) promoted diversity. The ACLU, the Southern Law Poverty Center, and of course various churches are all similar to the ADL in their advocacy.
    , @Carroll Price

    I’m familiar with organized Jewry’s efforts to push diversity on Western nations. Wasn’t it the ADL that actually coined the phrase “Diversity Is Our Strength”?
     
    I can't imagine anyone else coming up with such a stupid idea can you? It's got Jews written all over it.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Man on the street
    The Trump administration cannot govern in a clearly identified one voice if the president sounds like he cares about rebuilding America and avoid STUPID wars, and his underlyings are calling for global destructions by waging war on Russia, Iran, Syria, Yemen, N.Korea, and China.

    If Trump is honest about his policy he should have never put his son in law as SENIOR ADVISER, or Nikki Haley at the UN, or any neocon near the WH.

    The policy of appeasement of the xio-cabal will never work. This tribe don't accept less than 100% obedience from any leadership. As it is, we can see how the Talmudic clan are swarming all over trump and promising impeachment or assassination, despite of him throwing at them lots of red meat. He bombed Syria, which bought him about two days on their good grace. Nothing less than complet capitulation will work.

    If Trump is honest about his policy he should have never put his son in law as SENIOR ADVISER, or Nikki Haley at the UN, or any neocon near the WH.

    Agreed.

    This tribe don’t accept less than 100% obedience from any leadership. As it is, we can see how the Talmudic clan are swarming all over trump and promising impeachment or assassination, despite of him throwing at them lots of red meat. He bombed Syria, which bought him about two days on their good grace. Nothing less than complete capitulation will work.

    True but I think, especially with the recent foreign trips and relatively positive results therewith, that Trump has the upperhand over all those serpents and Bannon and other non Zionists are setting the agenda. A big fake out by Trump promising everything to the Zionist beast but then delivering very little, but we shall see.
    And btw I think his weird son in law Jared will soon be gone because besides being a Zionist he’s way over his ‘silver spooned’ head, among other reasons.

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  • @Wizard of Oz
    I find it fascinating that you write with such confidence in the alleged facts you assert, especially when others who reject the standard version are almost apoplectically vociferous in asserting the idiocy of those who even believe that UA93 was a part of the plot to attack American buildings!

    I don't know why you believe UA93 was meant to hit WTC 7 rather than Congress or the White House. Apart from geographic reasons you haven't dealt with the fact that smart plotters would have seen no net gain out of adding a plane crashing into WTC7 to the twin towers crashes.....

    Surely you must be trolling! But not to catch me solemnly picking holes in your speculation but perhaps to stimulate the amazing Revusky into flight again..... or just possibly get Ron Unz to switch on his laser beam at last and roar with laughter while he blasts the ranks of his mad truther commenters.

    You don’t need to be Sherlock Holmes to find something suspicious in the fact that 1) two hijacked airliners flew into two steel frame high rises which supposedly collapsed due to raging fires (that has almost gone out) 2) a third hijacked airliner on course/time to hit a third steel frame high rise building in the same place didn’t make it and crashed in a field but the building collapsed anyway.

    If you want an appreciative audience, try commenting over at the Washington Post. They’re big supporters of the Neo-cons, Israel, every ME war, Hillary Clinton and they’re 100% committed to the government 9/11 story. They’re also hot for destroying Iran which is probably on your wish list.

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    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    Suspicions and doubts I'll grant you but you don't seem interested in anything more than the joy of finding some evil people in control somewhere, somehow. Having noted suspicion about the way the Twin Towers collapsed I put the issues to a high powered physicist. Have you bothered to do as much? Do you even understand the addition of vectors or are you a total scientific innocent who believes fantasists? As to the plane on track to hit WTC7!!! Where do you get that from? And what possible motive would the clever plotters have had for bringing down that building rather than crashing into a symbolically important DC building?
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Zenarchy
    If you look at genetics, you will find out that less than 1/3 of modern Iranian genetics comes from ancient Iranians, most of the rest from Arabs. Look it up, though it will take some time...

    Although, even the Eastern Iranian speakers (who has survived the Arabic onslought) with high percentage of the Aryan R1a haplogroup, such as Tajiks or Iranic speaking Afghans, had accepted Islam. Not sure how much they contributed 'creatively and profoundly', though.

    If you don't believe me, check how many Pamiris in Tajikistan look:
    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-4N7gomy7JXU/TlR35UiOJyI/AAAAAAAAAnk/4Qd5FxvV9q4/s1600/Pamiri+faces+6.jpg

    Hey Zenarchy,

    Look it up, though it will take some time…

    No thanks – I’m kind of busy – I’m not going to do other peoples’ research for them. If you have a claim that you are making, please cite your sources directly like I do. That there were significant mixtures of Arabs, Turks, Mongols into the Persian people is a given.

    who has survived the Arabic onslought

    There was no onslaught to survive other than on the battlefields. The Arabs did not plunder and destroy established civilian peoples or infrastructure:
    “For the majority of seventh-century Syriac Christians, the most involved geoploitical changes came not with the Islamic Conquests of the 630s but from the Byzantine-Persian wars from 602 to 628, which were much more destructive than the Islamic conquests. With a few notable exceptions, during the Islamic conquests the majority of sustained military engagementstook place in the countryside, minimizing civilian casualties.Most cities capitlulated to Arab forces without prolonged siege. Material evidence of the Islamic conquests is minimal, and the conquests did not leave the type of destruction layers associated with much more devastating invasions.”
    Envisioning Islam: Syriac Christians and the Early Muslim World

    “What Donner turns out to mean is simply the well-known fact that the Muslims did not engage in systematic destruction of towns, churches, and other religious buildings, and that they were not out to impose their religion by force….If all Donner means to affirm is that the Muslim conquests were relatively swift and surgical operations that left urban life, religious communities, and complex organization intact, then he is simply affirming the conventional view….The Muslims did not engage in systematic destruction of towns or religious buildings, regardless of whether they were monotheist, Zoroastrian, or (in Harran) pagan.”

    http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/42023/among-the-believers

    On the battlefield however, the onslaught was fairly thorough – the backbone of Persia was broken on probably just two significant ones.

    Not sure how much they contributed ‘creatively and profoundly’, though.

    Read further on the source I cited:
    But the universality of the Persian contribution to all facets of Islamic learning must be kept in mind in any study of the relationship between Persia and Islamic civilization. The extensive efforts of Persian scholars in helping to lay the foundations of so many of the Islamic sciences during the early period continued with the same force into the Saljuq and Timurid periods. So many of the works of this later period which are standard texts in Muslim madrassas, both Sunni and Shi’i, works of such men as Ghazzali, Fakhr al-Din Razi, Zamakhshari, Baidawi, Nasir al-Din al-Tusi, Taftazani, Sayyid Sharif Jurjani and Jalal al-Din al-Dawani, to cite just a few of the better known names, are connected with the Persian world. Ghazzali alone would be sufficient to underline the significance of the contribution of Persia to Islamic civilization…all that we identify with classical, orthodox Islam in both its Sunni and Shi’i aspects would be unimaginable in its existing historical form without extensive efforts of Persians scholars, who worked along with Arab scholars in creating that vast world of Islamic learning to which other peoples also became subsequent heirs and contributors. For this reason, the role of Persia in the elaboration of Islamic civilization and the Islamic sciences has remained central throughout history.”
    The Cambridge History of Iran, Volume 4

    Anyone who knows about historical Islamic scholarship and religious disciplines knows the Persian (and “Persianate” from Transoxiana) contribution was indispensable to the tradition.

    Peace.

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  • @Wizard of Oz
    I am beginning to get interested in why some people are sure 9/11 was a false flag affair covered up by a lot of lies. So may I try my opening question on you. How much, if any of it, have you read of the official 9/11 commission report?

    How much, if any of it, have you read of the official 9/11 commission report?

    I have a question too.

    Why would anyone waste his time on that thing?

    Read More
    • Replies: @L.K
    J.S: "Why would anyone waste his time on that thing?"

    Well, I bet 'wizard of trolling', for one, did NOT read it.
    , @Wizard of Oz
    Do you regard it as acceptable to assert that it is all a fairy tale and obvious lies without reading it?

    I do not refer to the possibly just acceptable practice of reading some of the critics and then, without trusting them to have got it all right, to start fossicking around for some reliable facts on which to make an assessment for oneself. Even that doesn't absolve people from doing their own reading of the report if they wish to have their certainties taken seriously.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Greg Bacon
    The BIGGEST threat to the USA is from within, as we are nothing more than an occupied colony of Apartheid Israel, paying that bastard state tributes each year in the form of free money and weapons, political backing at the UN, and never tire of fighting her wars of conquest.

    You won't see Israeli troops in the streets, since their confederates control the economy thru their control of the FED and US Treasury and most of those TBTF banks, which we always bail out, no matter the cost.

    The also have a choke-hold on Congress, which is always eager to wag their tail and hope their Yid Overlord gives them a treat and not a dressing-down in the Jew MSM, which is a career killer.

    The WH is also Israeli territory, especially now with a Jew NYC slumlord now Trump's top adviser and his fashion model faux Jew daughter egging Daddy on to kill more Arab babies, since she can't stand the sight of dead babies.

    The BIGGEST threat to the USA is from within…

    Exactly.

    Rumsfeld was close, but he neglected to mention the banksters who own and run the country.

    “The adversary is closer to home; it’s the Pentagon bureaucracy…”

    - Donald Rumsfeld on Sept. 10, 2001

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xU4GdHLUHwU

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  • @anarchyst
    No matter how you "slice it", Islamic dhimmitude" IS third-class citizenship and is NOT acceptable in western society. All one has to do is to look at the "no go" zones in many European cities where those "not of the faith" are routinely harassed and yes, even murdered. The demands that the (now) dominant culture change for the "guests" (who came here uninvited) is a large problem. It sure looks like they don't "do as the Romans do", and want to impress their 14th-century ways on the rest of us...If they want to bring their backward 14th-century ways to the west, they might as well stay in their own countries. We don't need them here...
    Judaic supremacy is much more refined and insidious, jews demanding their right to live as a separate culture while insisting that "the rest of us" accept cultural genocide by pushing pornography, cultural debasement, "multiculturalism" and "diversity" on the rest of us...while bribing our leaders and infiltrating our government and public institutions while screaming "muh holocaust™ and six-million" when they encounter those of us who KNOW the truth about their lies and devious behavior.
    I stand by my statements that both Judaism and Islam are foreign political and social system that have no place in western society. adherents to these systems should be required to register as "agents of a foreign government" with the U S State department, pending review of their cases for mandatory deportation.

    “No matter how you “slice it”, Islamic dhimmitude” IS third-class citizenship and is NOT acceptable in western society.”

    Except Americans, for example, generally do not refer to themselves as “westerners” or “defenders of Western Civilization”. This fetish by a number of posters here both astounds and puzzles me.

    “If they want to bring their backward 14th-century ways to the west, they might as well stay in their own countries. We don’t need them here…”

    Thank you very much for your opinion on this matter.

    “Judaic supremacy is much more refined and insidious, jews demanding their right to live as a separate culture while insisting that “the rest of us” accept cultural genocide by pushing pornography, cultural debasement, “multiculturalism” and “diversity” on the rest of us”

    Those things are brought to you by Jews AND non-Jews. You know, people. Your run of the mill human beings.

    “…while bribing our leaders and infiltrating our government and public institutions while screaming “muh holocaust™ and six-million” when they encounter those of us who KNOW the truth about their lies and devious behavior.”

    The truth is the Holocaust occurred and millions of Jews died.

    “I stand by my statements that both Judaism and Islam are foreign political and social system that have no place in western society. adherents to these systems should be required to register as “agents of a foreign government” with the U S State department, pending review of their cases for mandatory deportation.”

    Except there is one problem here, and that American citizens who practice Judaism and Islam are protected from such a process from being implemented. Do you honestly believe that your proposal would remotely gain traction in our State Department, let alone the general American population?

    Listen, how about you deport yourself if you do not like it in our nation?

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    • Replies: @geokat62

    Those things are brought to you by Jews AND non-Jews. You know, people. Your run of the mill human beings.
     
    I'm familiar with organized Jewry's efforts to push diversity on Western nations. Wasn't it the ADL that actually coined the phrase “Diversity Is Our Strength"?

    Need proof? Here's material they’ve recently posted on their website:


    This is America.This is ADL. (NB – disingenuously referring to 9 pictures of distinct-looking individuals)

    The United States is a vibrant mix of cultures, races, religions and ethnic groups. These differences enhance our nation’s strength, beauty and collective wisdom. Together, we all weave the fabric of our pluralistic society.

    For over 100 years, the Anti-Defamation League has upheld this distinctly American concept by leading the fight against anti-Semitism, bigotry and racism. Today, ADL is the nation’s premier human relations and civil rights organization.

    If your company or organization wants to be recognized as a leader in the fight to promote diversity, we invite you to become a member of ADL’s Corporate Leadership Council — the nation’s leading corporate diversity initiative. Additional co-branding, diversity training and recognition benefits are available to Corporate Partners.

    https://www.adl.org/sites/default/files/documents/assets/pdf/about-adl/corporate-partners.pdf
     

    Could you provide evidence of any other lobby that promotes diversity as stridently and effectively as they do? (Hint: read the bold part again... they themselves admit they are the nation's "premier" organization).

    I'll leave you with this quote by the former head of the ADL:


    “America’s pluralistic society is at the heart of Jewish security,” says Abraham Foxman, national director of the Anti-Defamation League – a leading Jewish-Zionist organization. “In the long run,” he continues, “what has made American Jewish life a uniquely positive experience in Diaspora history and which has enabled us to be such important allies for the State of Israel, is the health of a pluralistic, tolerant and inclusive American society.”

    http://ihr.org/other/biden_jewish_role
     

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Talha
    Hey Pachy,

    their true faith, that of Zoroaster, would have survived
     
    If you say so. When I lived in So Cal there was a Zoroastrian temple that I used to pass by on occasion - who's stopping them from spreading their faith in the West? The Persians took on Islam completely and became its intellectual champions - even going so far as to codify the Arabic language (which was done by men like Sibawayh [ra], Fairuzabadi [ra], etc.):
    "It might be thought that a people, if forced, could submit outwardly to another pattern of life, but not that a people could be forced to contribute creatively and profoundly to this pattern unless it was transformed inwardly by the new way of life. The depth of the Islamization of Persia and the transformation of the very substance of its people's soul by this process is best proved by the intensity of interest and the quality of the knowledge and the scholarship of the Persian scholars who played such a basic role in the development and even creation of so many Islamic sciences..."
    The Cambridge History of Iran, Volume 4

    Practically all the Sufi Orders trace themselves back through Persians.

    Persia was always a regional player due to her geography and she will always remain so - but Islam made her an influential force in the world which continues to this day.


    a love of pig isn’t any different than the love of camel
     
    A pig is an omnivore. Sure they look all nice and cute on the farm, but given the chance, a pack of feral pigs would tear you apart and eat you. Feeding them nothing but vegetables does not change their classification any more than a human who is a vegetarian magically loses omnivore status.

    The proper analogy is:
    A pig is to a bear or monkey what a camel is to a buffalo or antelope


    how would allah fare if the billion Chinese are left out of the grand plan
     
    Doesn't affect Him a bit. What part of "you need Him, He doesn’t need you" does not compute?
    "...O my servants, you will not be able to cause harm to Me and you will not be able to cause benefit to Me.
    O my servants, were the first of you and the last of you, the human of you and the jinn of you, to become as pious as the most pious heart of anyone of you, that would not increase My kingdom in anything..." - reported in Muslim

    Do you think He is some super-hero in the sky whose energy meter goes up or down with how many people believe in Him?

    Besides, plenty of Hui seem to be doing quite well as Muslims and as Chinese (Hanafi school in the house!):
    https://www.economist.com/news/china/21708274-choosing-assimilation-chinas-hui-have-become-one-worlds-most-successful-muslim


    Enjoy the raisins, Mr. T!
     
    Thanks! Looking forward to having them hand fed to me by houris - hubba hubba!

    Peace.

    If you look at genetics, you will find out that less than 1/3 of modern Iranian genetics comes from ancient Iranians, most of the rest from Arabs. Look it up, though it will take some time…

    Although, even the Eastern Iranian speakers (who has survived the Arabic onslought) with high percentage of the Aryan R1a haplogroup, such as Tajiks or Iranic speaking Afghans, had accepted Islam. Not sure how much they contributed ‘creatively and profoundly’, though.

    If you don’t believe me, check how many Pamiris in Tajikistan look:

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    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey Zenarchy,

    Look it up, though it will take some time…
     
    No thanks - I'm kind of busy - I'm not going to do other peoples' research for them. If you have a claim that you are making, please cite your sources directly like I do. That there were significant mixtures of Arabs, Turks, Mongols into the Persian people is a given.

    who has survived the Arabic onslought
     
    There was no onslaught to survive other than on the battlefields. The Arabs did not plunder and destroy established civilian peoples or infrastructure:
    "For the majority of seventh-century Syriac Christians, the most involved geoploitical changes came not with the Islamic Conquests of the 630s but from the Byzantine-Persian wars from 602 to 628, which were much more destructive than the Islamic conquests. With a few notable exceptions, during the Islamic conquests the majority of sustained military engagementstook place in the countryside, minimizing civilian casualties.Most cities capitlulated to Arab forces without prolonged siege. Material evidence of the Islamic conquests is minimal, and the conquests did not leave the type of destruction layers associated with much more devastating invasions."
    Envisioning Islam: Syriac Christians and the Early Muslim World

    "What Donner turns out to mean is simply the well-known fact that the Muslims did not engage in systematic destruction of towns, churches, and other religious buildings, and that they were not out to impose their religion by force....If all Donner means to affirm is that the Muslim conquests were relatively swift and surgical operations that left urban life, religious communities, and complex organization intact, then he is simply affirming the conventional view....The Muslims did not engage in systematic destruction of towns or religious buildings, regardless of whether they were monotheist, Zoroastrian, or (in Harran) pagan."
    http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/42023/among-the-believers

    On the battlefield however, the onslaught was fairly thorough - the backbone of Persia was broken on probably just two significant ones.


    Not sure how much they contributed ‘creatively and profoundly’, though.
     
    Read further on the source I cited:
    "But the universality of the Persian contribution to all facets of Islamic learning must be kept in mind in any study of the relationship between Persia and Islamic civilization. The extensive efforts of Persian scholars in helping to lay the foundations of so many of the Islamic sciences during the early period continued with the same force into the Saljuq and Timurid periods. So many of the works of this later period which are standard texts in Muslim madrassas, both Sunni and Shi'i, works of such men as Ghazzali, Fakhr al-Din Razi, Zamakhshari, Baidawi, Nasir al-Din al-Tusi, Taftazani, Sayyid Sharif Jurjani and Jalal al-Din al-Dawani, to cite just a few of the better known names, are connected with the Persian world. Ghazzali alone would be sufficient to underline the significance of the contribution of Persia to Islamic civilization...all that we identify with classical, orthodox Islam in both its Sunni and Shi'i aspects would be unimaginable in its existing historical form without extensive efforts of Persians scholars, who worked along with Arab scholars in creating that vast world of Islamic learning to which other peoples also became subsequent heirs and contributors. For this reason, the role of Persia in the elaboration of Islamic civilization and the Islamic sciences has remained central throughout history."
    The Cambridge History of Iran, Volume 4

    Anyone who knows about historical Islamic scholarship and religious disciplines knows the Persian (and "Persianate" from Transoxiana) contribution was indispensable to the tradition.

    Peace.

    , @L.K
    "If you look at genetics, you will find out that less than 1/3 of modern Iranian genetics comes from ancient Iranians, most of the rest from Arabs"

    Laughable and totally false statement. The genetic studies show none of that.

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Rurik says: • Website
    @Wizard of Oz
    Thanks for the link. On the whole it leaves the idea that the attack on the USS Liberty involved the highest levels of government as simply not entirely ruled out but in desperate need of an explanatory motive to give it credibility. The idea that LBJ in the middle of the Vietnam War wanted to have Ameticans killed to contrive an excuse for the US to attack Egypt is beyond mad. None of the suggestex Israeli motives seem weighty enough even if logocally possible.

    . The idea that LBJ in the middle of the Vietnam War wanted to have Ameticans killed to contrive an excuse for the US to attack Egypt is beyond mad

    why?

    our presidents and the deepstate have been lying us into wars for over a hundred years now, longer if you include the ‘Sinking of the Maine’ lie.

    and we all know the reason we were dragged into WWI is because of the Balfour Declaration, don’t we wiz?

    so yea, obviously the attack on the Liberty was intended to be a false flag attack to blame on Egypt. Duh.

    Just like the Lavon affair, huh wiz?

    just like 9/11 was intended as their ‘new Pearl Harbor’, from the goons at the PNAC

    with General Clark’s seven nations as the victims of this latest treachery from our bestest buddies ever, who sat there and filmed as Americans were slaughtered in a ball of fire, and then celebrated by ‘dancing’ and ‘high-fiving’.

    “it’s very good”

    charming eh wiz?

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    • Agree: anarchyst, L.K
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    I take no note of your historical ramblings, only your quoting what I said and your failure to accept it.

    The Vietnam War was an expensive and unpopular venture under Johnson's leadership which was, more than inter alia, damaging his Great Society programs and you really have to find strong positive reasons for Johnson to want to go to war against Egypt to make that theory of yours plausible. Where is the archival material or the memoirs from insiders? No evidence and no motive but you apparently want to believe any nutty story.

    And in general what evidence is it that Johnson did something devious in 1967 that other Presidents didn't behave openly and honestly at all times? We know Johnson, like 99.9 per cent of human beings, could tell lies, but where does that get you on the USS Liberty disaster?

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  • The Trump administration cannot govern in a clearly identified one voice if the president sounds like he cares about rebuilding America and avoid STUPID wars, and his underlyings are calling for global destructions by waging war on Russia, Iran, Syria, Yemen, N.Korea, and China.

    If Trump is honest about his policy he should have never put his son in law as SENIOR ADVISER, or Nikki Haley at the UN, or any neocon near the WH.

    The policy of appeasement of the xio-cabal will never work. This tribe don’t accept less than 100% obedience from any leadership. As it is, we can see how the Talmudic clan are swarming all over trump and promising impeachment or assassination, despite of him throwing at them lots of red meat. He bombed Syria, which bought him about two days on their good grace. Nothing less than complet capitulation will work.

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    • Replies: @Z-man

    If Trump is honest about his policy he should have never put his son in law as SENIOR ADVISER, or Nikki Haley at the UN, or any neocon near the WH.

     

    Agreed.

    This tribe don’t accept less than 100% obedience from any leadership. As it is, we can see how the Talmudic clan are swarming all over trump and promising impeachment or assassination, despite of him throwing at them lots of red meat. He bombed Syria, which bought him about two days on their good grace. Nothing less than complete capitulation will work.

     

    True but I think, especially with the recent foreign trips and relatively positive results therewith, that Trump has the upperhand over all those serpents and Bannon and other non Zionists are setting the agenda. A big fake out by Trump promising everything to the Zionist beast but then delivering very little, but we shall see.
    And btw I think his weird son in law Jared will soon be gone because besides being a Zionist he's way over his 'silver spooned' head, among other reasons.
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  • @Old Jew
    Mr. Giraldi,

    On a subject dear to you, USS Liberty:

    A recent article in HAARETZ.com has the title:

    'But Sir, It’s an American Ship.' 'Never Mind, Hit Her!' When Israel Attacked USS Liberty

    read more: http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.800890

    Thanks for the link. On the whole it leaves the idea that the attack on the USS Liberty involved the highest levels of government as simply not entirely ruled out but in desperate need of an explanatory motive to give it credibility. The idea that LBJ in the middle of the Vietnam War wanted to have Ameticans killed to contrive an excuse for the US to attack Egypt is beyond mad. None of the suggestex Israeli motives seem weighty enough even if logocally possible.

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    • Replies: @Rurik

    . The idea that LBJ in the middle of the Vietnam War wanted to have Ameticans killed to contrive an excuse for the US to attack Egypt is beyond mad
     
    why?

    our presidents and the deepstate have been lying us into wars for over a hundred years now, longer if you include the 'Sinking of the Maine' lie.

    and we all know the reason we were dragged into WWI is because of the Balfour Declaration, don't we wiz?

    so yea, obviously the attack on the Liberty was intended to be a false flag attack to blame on Egypt. Duh.

    Just like the Lavon affair, huh wiz?

    just like 9/11 was intended as their 'new Pearl Harbor', from the goons at the PNAC

    with General Clark's seven nations as the victims of this latest treachery from our bestest buddies ever, who sat there and filmed as Americans were slaughtered in a ball of fire, and then celebrated by 'dancing' and 'high-fiving'.

    "it's very good"

    charming eh wiz?
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  • @NoseytheDuke
    "Anyone with half a brain knows it’s a fairy tale – a complete and total fraud."

    Now I understand why the Wiz idiot keeps banking on with his stupid questions, thanks.

    You really deserve a medal for chutzpah! You complain about unidentified questions and ignore the challenge of my positive #80 completely. Where is your coherent account of 9/11 which can be contrasted favourably with a “fairy tale” and “complete fraud”? BTW are you too cognitively depressed to notice Carroll Price’s itredeemable stupidity? It is stupid for him to characterise the 9/11 report in a way that suggests it is the work of people far too clumsy and inept to carry off the suggested 9/11 conspiracy or to be the minions of the clever conspirators. (For the simple minded I had better explain that clever conspirators don’t allow reports that anyone with “half a brain” can tell etc etc.).

    Can you at least concede that ObL would have been happy to draw the US into a mire fighting the Taleban and that he would have approved multiple plane crashes in the US as a way of possibly achieving that? And do you think anyone plotting to get the US to attack Iraq would have thought an actual or apparently Afghan based attack on the Twin Towers was a sufficiently reliable way to make it happen? My answers of course are not questions. They are assertions as you can’t help knowing.

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    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    Intelligent people understand that it's highly unlikely that OBL had anything to do with it at all which is what he himself stated. The videos of "him" confessing feature a fake OBL that is clearly not him so the question is, who would benefit from creating such a fraudulent "confession"? OBL was also in the late stage of renal failure at that time too.

    I doubt that SA had much to do with it either other than providing some of the funding, likely to set them up as patsies for later on or when the plot began to unravel in the minds of the greater public. SA lacks the kind of technical knowhow and would have found it much more difficult to infiltrate the towers for the installation of the demolition charges that were used. Again, intelligent people understand much of this and the more anyone learns about it the clearer it becomes as to exactly which US "ally" was actually responsible.

    Intelligent people don't need to surmise where the push to invade Iraq came from, they can simply recall the names of those who manipulated both "defence intelligence" and traitorous media to take advantage of a traumatised public and unscrupulous politicians. Names like Kristol, Pearle, Wolfowitz, Feith and more.

    Intelligent people know this Wiz but disingenuous idiots such as yourself refuse to so that you can continue to play your little games and post your barely comprehensible ramblings that merely prove your idiocy and your total lack of decency. BUT, the pendulum is swinging back and the old adage of being unable to fool all of the people all of the time is again proving to be true and once the tipping point is reached it will be very uncomfortable for some and hopefully that will include "useful idiots" like yourself.
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  • @geokat62
    Quick question Phil. The subtitle of your article is "The White House is targeting Iran but should instead focus on Saudi Arabia."

    After running on a campaign of MAGA and America First, wouldn't it have been more appropriate to have written an article with the following subtitle: "The White House is targeting Iran but should instead focus on these United States"?

    Yes, you are correct. The problem begins at home!

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  • Quick question Phil. The subtitle of your article is “The White House is targeting Iran but should instead focus on Saudi Arabia.”

    After running on a campaign of MAGA and America First, wouldn’t it have been more appropriate to have written an article with the following subtitle: “The White House is targeting Iran but should instead focus on these United States”?

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    • Agree: Talha, Z-man, Miro23
    • Replies: @Philip Giraldi
    Yes, you are correct. The problem begins at home!
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  • @ANON
    Watch your language. Such language makes your comments the object of scorn. And what exactly were your trying to say? Other than some totally vulgar word used by trashy british drunks getting to fights in pubs>

    In fairness to the word itself, it has its place but I agree with you that The Unz Review is not the place for such offensive language.

    Peter Cook and Dudley Moore did a hilarious comedy routine based on it.

    Svigor is clearly a low class individual and of such low intelligence that he can’t figure out how to use the reply button when responding to comments.

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  • @Carroll Price
    You mean the under-funded, long-delayed, 9/11 Commission Report chaired by chief neocon, Philip Zelikow? Yes, I've read it, and it's fully as bogus as the Warren Commission Report, if not more so. With three of its members (Thomas Keen, Lee Hamilton & Max Cleland) admitting the report was a fraud due to members of the commission being denied access to numerous “secret” documents, as well as access to question supposed terrorist confined at Guantanamo Bay. Due to the Commission being an obvious whitewash, Rep. Max Cleland simply resigned his seat. Anyone with half a brain knows it’s a fairy tale - a complete and total fraud.

    https://www.sott.net/article/327726-What-neocon-architect-of-the-9-11-Commission-Report-Philip-Zelikow-did-to-maintain-the-big-lie

    “Anyone with half a brain knows it’s a fairy tale – a complete and total fraud.”

    Now I understand why the Wiz idiot keeps banking on with his stupid questions, thanks.

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    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    You really deserve a medal for chutzpah! You complain about unidentified questions and ignore the challenge of my positive #80 completely. Where is your coherent account of 9/11 which can be contrasted favourably with a "fairy tale" and "complete fraud"? BTW are you too cognitively depressed to notice Carroll Price's itredeemable stupidity? It is stupid for him to characterise the 9/11 report in a way that suggests it is the work of people far too clumsy and inept to carry off the suggested 9/11 conspiracy or to be the minions of the clever conspirators. (For the simple minded I had better explain that clever conspirators don't allow reports that anyone with "half a brain" can tell etc etc.).

    Can you at least concede that ObL would have been happy to draw the US into a mire fighting the Taleban and that he would have approved multiple plane crashes in the US as a way of possibly achieving that? And do you think anyone plotting to get the US to attack Iraq would have thought an actual or apparently Afghan based attack on the Twin Towers was a sufficiently reliable way to make it happen? My answers of course are not questions. They are assertions as you can't help knowing.

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  • @anarchyst
    Israel's current "agreements" and its "kowtowing" to Saudi Arabia speaks VOLUMES. Once again, Israel is about to get others to do their "dirty work" for them.
    The point that everybody seems to miss is the fact that Judaism and Islam are inextricably linked. In fact, one could safely argue that Islam is an arabicized form of Judaism.
    1. Both Judaism and Islam promote their own forms of supremacy, relegating non-adherents as "lesser human beings", or in Judaism's take "no better than livestock, albeit with souls, to be used for the advantage of the jew".
    2. Both systems proscribe lesser (or no) punishment for those of each respective "tribe" who transgress against "outsiders"--goyim or infidels. Both systems proscribe much harsher punishments against "outsiders" who transgress against those of each respective "tribe".
    3. When it comes to "equality under law", Israel is no better than Saudi Arabia, as a jew who has a disagreement with an "outsider" will always have the advantage of a judicial system which almost always rules for the jew.
    4. Both Judaism and Islam have taken it upon themselves to be arbiters of what the rest of the world should follow, demanding that "outsiders" conform to what THEY believe, thinking that they know what is best (for the rest of us). Just look at the demands moslems (who are guests in western Europe) make of local non-moslem populations.
    Read the jewish Talmud and islamic Koran...you will find virtually identical passages that demonize and marginalize those of us who are "goyim" or "infidels".
    A pox on both their houses...

    educational material: Israel’s New Racism: The Persecution of African Migrants in the Holy Land

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  • @Mikel

    You as well.
     
    Glad to know that my blasphemous comments don't make you wish me bad.

    As you know, in many (perhaps most) Muslim countries they would have cost me very dear, to say the least. Hence my desire that those violent customs don't spill over to Western lands. It's not so long ago that we finally got rid of our own remnants of retrograde thinking.

    Best regards,
    Mikel

    Bro, I’m a student of the Naqshbandi Order, we don’t wish people bad. If I did, then I rightfully deserve contempt. I want what’s best for you in this world and the next – now we may have a different idea of what the details are, but that’s understandable.

    they would have cost me very dear

    Yeah – we don’t mess around with that stuff – don’t take it personally – we follow the sacred law on it. No harm no foul.

    those violent customs don’t spill over to Western lands

    I will agree with you in that I cannot stand the level of sanguinary mob and vigilante violence that has gripped the Muslim community. There is absolutely no room for it whatsoever and that is absolutely retrograde. Prosecution of crimes (including things like blasphemy) is to be done openly, publicly and according to normative judicial procedures where people can defend themselves. We can definitely learn a thing or two about public order and rule of law from the West in this regard.

    Peace – may God preserve you and your family – do not deprive me of your prayers.

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  • @Priss Factor
    I know there were some German women who married black American soldiers before 1970. But the kids who remained in Germany with their mothers married White Germans and bred back to White

    You are living in the past. Things are changing so fast, and old rules don't apply.

    Same in the US.

    I visited lots of small towns in north and south, and ACOWW is spreading like crazy.

    Seeing is believing.

    And look at random street life in Paris in youtube videos. So many white women with Negroes.

    France is turning junglois.

    You are living in denial.

    Unlike you, I have no interest in the sex lives of people 4,000 miles away.

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  • @Anon

    the kind of narrative that you would expect to be devised by someone from that place and time
     
    Wasn't it, though? Unlike "Mikel", I don't hold that against it, but it does seem from an outside viewpoint that, unlike, say, Christianity, there really isn't that much new in Islam, barring the teetotalism. Again, though, I don't really think of this as a problem per se. Indeed, one of my father's (non-Muslim) friends used to argue that Islam was praiseworthy took the best of the different extant religions.

    Hola Senor,

    Wasn’t it, though?

    Sure, I just meant in the sense that it requires one to be mired in the 7th century – which it obviously does not – though it does expect one to adhere to certain immutable beliefs and principles from time immemorial.

    there really isn’t that much new in Islam

    On spot! The Islamic narrative is that it is a return to religion primordial – the most ancient religion of the Hanifs (pure monotheists):
    “Abraham in truth was neither a Jew nor a Christian; but he was a Muslim and one pure of faith [Hanif]; certainly he was never of the idolaters.” 3:67

    It is really just a promulgation – a reminder really – of that tradition that hearkens way back, brought full circle after centuries and millennia of accretions and being lost:
    “The same religion has He established for you as that which He enjoined on Noah…” 42:13

    Again, one may not like this or think its silly, but this is the narrative. I personally think it is great that there were

    the different extant religions

    It’s bizarre when you see coincidences – for instance, what Buddhist monks wear (including the uncovering of the shoulder) is almost exactly what males wear on the Hajj (minus the saffron colors of course).

    I recently came across a ruling in the Hanafi school that is a detail most people have never even heard of (I sure hadn’t); in one of the valid opinions in the school – if one was to recite from a previous revealed text (like the Torah, Evangel, Psalms or any other revealed scripture in its original mode/language of revelation and one had conviction that the part he was reciting was 100% preserved as from God) in one’s five daily prayers, then the prayer counts since one is reciting that which points to Divine Speech.

    Peace.

    Note: Apologies to Mr. Ghiraldi (and gratitude for his patience) for posting comments unrelated to the immediate topic. I hope it’s not too much extra material for you to sift through, sir.

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  • ANON • Disclaimer says:
    @Priss Factor
    I know there were some German women who married black American soldiers before 1970. But the kids who remained in Germany with their mothers married White Germans and bred back to White

    You are living in the past. Things are changing so fast, and old rules don't apply.

    Same in the US.

    I visited lots of small towns in north and south, and ACOWW is spreading like crazy.

    Seeing is believing.

    And look at random street life in Paris in youtube videos. So many white women with Negroes.

    France is turning junglois.

    You are living in denial.

    So you travel the country looking for black White couples. You’re even crazier than I thought. And looking at random street traffic, how can you tell which people are couples?

    If you saw a man and a woman coming out of a bank, or standing in line for a movie, or waiting for a bus would you assume they were a couple?

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  • Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @ANON
    Most American Muslims own crooked criminal convenience stores. They have huge profits because they:

    1 sell lottery tickets to derelicts and stupid poor people.

    2 sell alcohol to derelicts who sit outside drinking it and harassing people

    3 but food stamps for 30 cents on the dollar from people on welfare.

    4 send friends and relatives to get free food staples from food banks and then sell the food in their stores.

    5 buy day, actually several day old bread and pastries from the bakery outlets and sell it as fresh in their sleazy little stores.

    6 belong to major networks of shoplifters who steal from stores and re sell the items. This shoplifting is not just grabbing items for personal use but organized shoplifting. Ever wonder why those 40 ounce cabs of dried baby formula are kept in locked cabinets in some supermarkets? It's because it's stolen from supermarkets and resold in squalid Muslim convenience stores.

    7 belong to nationwide networks of cigarette thieves who steal packages of cigarettes direct from the factories and put forged tax stamps on them. Dearborn Michigan is the headquarters of the very well organized billion dollar stolen cigarette tax fraud criminal organizations

    8. Obviously Muslim business owners never pay any kind of taxes and are often caught.

    9. The medical engineering and other college departments in Muslim countries are totally corrupt. The students can and do get their degrees without even going to class. And of course hiring a professional al test taker to take the certification or licensing exams is routine for Muslims.

    I just assume that any professional certificate held by a Muslim was obtained by criminal deceit and fraud.

    10. Muslim gas stations routinely rig the pumps so as to register a couple gallons more than is actually pumped into the gas tank. Paying for 2 gallons more than you actually obtained is nothing.

    The real problem with buying gas with a credit card at a Muslim station often results in your bank accounts raided and a second mortgage obtained on your house.

    I only allow White Americans and Hispanics to touch my car.

    11. Muslim contractors. To obtain a contractors license one must obtain an affidavit from a licensed contractor that one has worked for that contractor for 5 years and has demonstrated competency in all aspects of the trade. That allows one to take the contractors exam. If the exam is passed then the license is issued.

    As soon as one Muslim from the clan gets his contractors license he sells the affidavits for a $500 to a couple thousand dollars to friends and relatives. And then the professional test takers take the exam.

    I got a crooked little operation in my neighborhood shot down. Because they were Persians with beards and sneered at me with contempt and disdain because I'm a woman I rightly assumed they were Muslims instead of Jews, zorastrians or Chaldean Catholics

    The Persian Muslims rented a space behind a gas station for a little car detailing operation. Because of the freeway dust I thought I'd get the interior detailed. So I asked them how much. They said " depends on how dirty the car is" I noticed there were no credit card signs so I asked them if they took credit cards they said no. Well, I knew exactly what they would do. For a slipshod ordinary car wash they would refuse to give the car back unless the sucker gave something like $800 cash. And they'd do that macho man menacing posturing thing Muslims think will frighten the infidel into obedience.
    So I wrote an online and snail mail report to the consumer fraud division of the district attorney's office.

    They set up a sting operation with a WOMAN investigator. Sure nuff the Muslims demanded $700 to get the car back because it was " so dirty". Because they grabbed her while bullying her,assault and battery on a law enforcement officer was added to the extortion and consumer fraud charges.

    One thing Muslim businesses do is this. The Muslim owner who is really named Ali calls a vendor. The sales critter comes but uncle Mohammed pretends to be Ali. Mohammed agrees to a huge order with a minimal down payment. The goods arrive but the monthly payments don't.

    When the vendor sues to get the payments Ali comes to court and testifies that he wasn't there and has no idea of who this Mohammed is.

    A typical Muslim scam is setting up a copy shop. Those copy machines cost about $300,000 new. The Muslim buys them with a minimum down payment and then sells them for $100,000.

    Even if the degrees are authentic, if the degree holder went to university in a Muslim country, there is no guarantee that he or she ever went to class.

    When the Arab countries were under Turkish control the Turks would not hire Muslim Arabs for government jobs. It was either Jewish or Christian locals, Turks or Europeans from the Turkish European territories.
    And that Ramadan fasting? I fast completely 2 days a week and only eat one meal a day 5 days a week. The reason is I'm normal thin and want to stay normal thin. The only way I can stay 120 pds at 5ft 3 is by fasting. So I do.

    Not eating all day and gorging like a pig at night isn't fasting. It's gorging like a pig all night. Fasting is no big deal. Every actor and actress in the world has to do it sometimes. For instance the singer Beyoncé is a full figured plump woman. She had to be very thin, not normal thin for her role in Dream Girls. She lost 40 pounds in 2 months by fasting and eating very little.
    Some of the male actors in the movie Train Spotting were normal thin but lost 30 pounds for their roles by fasting.

    If they fast so much why is every Muslim woman I see in her ugly robes 100 pounds overweight? Crooked Muslim men and 250 pound Muslim women, my multicultural paradise is full of them.

    BTW those educated professional Muslim doctors have a very very high rate of medical insurance fraud and malpractice settlements because as well as being typical corrupt thieving Muslims they have fake degrees and are incompetent.
    .

    The real problem with buying gas with a credit card at a Muslim station often results in your bank accounts raided and a second mortgage obtained on your house.

    Avoid Tamil gas stations like the plague, and if you ever go to Sri Lanka, either pay cash or get a local card.

    Sikh and old-stock American gas-stations are fairly polite; Muslim and Hindu ones are not.

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  • @Talha
    Hey Mikel,

    In the Arabian desert life of the 7th century brutality, ignorance and superstition must have been rampant.
     
    Sure thing - 300 idols in the Kaabah - pretty crazy actually! That's what it came to fix.

    The Coran, however, ties in quite well with the Old Testament.
     
    Sure - parts of it.

    plenty of violence in the present
     
    A reading of WW2 history is advised - call me when secularism has solved the issue of violence - we'll talk.

    the kind of narrative that you would expect to be devised by someone from that place and time
     
    Not at all. The message certainly seems to have captivated the minds of people from Senegal to Malaysia. And it speaks to people today - maybe not you, but that's certainly not an objective yardstick. Sure it has violence and fighting in it - this is a part of life - but it also has a bunch of other very relevant stuff; charity, honoring parents, developing a relationship with God, etc If you are only reading it looking just for the violence, you'll find what you need to confirm your bias.

    I can understand that tradition, family, conformity with one’s social norms and, of course, existential anxiety, still lead people to adhere to the precepts of those ancient books, even if that forces them to perform mental convolutions like the ones you exhibit sometimes.
     
    Yeah, but tradition, family, conformity to one's social norms also leads people to reject it because the message doesn't accept gay marriage and other post-modern clap-trap. The issue is that you can try to convince yourself that you are not a product of your time and societal influences and that you are looking at it objectively, but it's not very convincing to someone like me.

    Plenty reject a religion not because of its over-arching narrative, but simply because they don't want to give up doing what they like - like the guy talking about Chinese giving up pork. One has to be honest with oneself. Plenty of people like living a life as they feel fit and want to live it guilt-free without consequences after they die - why is it in the ego's interest to submit?

    I don’t want your religion bringing its practices and mentality of Medieval Arab origin to the West
     
    If people want to expel Muslims, just do it legally - of course this brings back a European Medieval practice. Which is fine, let's just be honest about it.

    And there is no evidence that the religion is going to make the West analogous to Arabia. It's not - if Islam establishes itself in the West, it'll have a European flavor to it just like Javans, Malays, Persians, etc. have their own flavor.

    I wish you well at a personal level
     
    You as well.

    Peace.

    You as well.

    Glad to know that my blasphemous comments don’t make you wish me bad.

    As you know, in many (perhaps most) Muslim countries they would have cost me very dear, to say the least. Hence my desire that those violent customs don’t spill over to Western lands. It’s not so long ago that we finally got rid of our own remnants of retrograde thinking.

    Best regards,
    Mikel

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    • Replies: @Talha
    Bro, I'm a student of the Naqshbandi Order, we don't wish people bad. If I did, then I rightfully deserve contempt. I want what's best for you in this world and the next - now we may have a different idea of what the details are, but that's understandable.

    they would have cost me very dear
     
    Yeah - we don't mess around with that stuff - don't take it personally - we follow the sacred law on it. No harm no foul.

    those violent customs don’t spill over to Western lands
     
    I will agree with you in that I cannot stand the level of sanguinary mob and vigilante violence that has gripped the Muslim community. There is absolutely no room for it whatsoever and that is absolutely retrograde. Prosecution of crimes (including things like blasphemy) is to be done openly, publicly and according to normative judicial procedures where people can defend themselves. We can definitely learn a thing or two about public order and rule of law from the West in this regard.

    Peace - may God preserve you and your family - do not deprive me of your prayers.
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