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    The drama surrounding allegations that the internet is awash with “fake news” is being promoted by the so-called mainstream media which certainly has a lot to answer for when it comes to producing material that does not pass the smell test. Does the name Judith Miller ring any bells? And the squeaks of rage coming...
  • […] Its ready access to the mainstream media to spread its own propaganda provides it with cover for its actions. [P. Giraldi, The Unz Review, 6 December 2016] […]

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  • […] Philip Giraldi, “Fake News Versus No News” on […]

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  • […] quarrels don’t stay in Israel and they are not limited to the foreign policy realm. I have already discussed the pending Anti-Semitism Awareness Act, a bipartisan effort by Congress to penalize and even […]

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  • […] quarrels don’t stay in Israel and they are not limited to the foreign policy realm. I have already discussed the pending Anti-Semitism Awareness Act, a bipartisan effort by Congress to penalize and even […]

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  • […] quarrels don’t stay in Israel and they are not limited to the foreign policy realm. I have already discussed the pending Anti-Semitism Awareness Act, a bipartisan effort by Congress to penalize and even […]

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  • […] quarrels don’t stay in Israel and they are not limited to the foreign policy realm. I have already discussed the pending Anti-Semitism Awareness Act, a bipartisan effort by Congress to penalize and even […]

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  • […] quarrels don’t stay in Israel and they are not limited to the foreign policy realm. I have already discussed the pending Anti-Semitism Awareness Act, a bipartisan effort by Congress to penalize and even […]

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    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • […] quarrels don’t stay in Israel and they are not limited to the foreign policy realm. I have already discussed the pending Anti-Semitism Awareness Act, a bipartisan effort by Congress to penalize and even […]

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  • Between love and madness lies OBSESSION

    Calvin Klein, 1985, Obsession, women’s fragrance, impossible to forget.

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  • […] quarrels don’t stay in Israel and they are not limited to the foreign policy realm. I have already discussed the pending Anti-Semitism Awareness Act, a bipartisan effort by Congress to penalize and even […]

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  • @smiddy012
    Can anyone explain to me why this report, including what Assange is quoted as saying - http://www.awdnews.com/political/assange-forget-russia-,-the-real-threat-to-america-comes-from-israel-and-the-israel-lobby - was lifted word-for-word from this (Giraldi's) article (which dates 12 days earlier)??

    Being that the Unz Review has had the "inside scoop" on Assange from his inner circle previously, and that Giraldi is former CIA (but surely a loyalist), I'm almost wondering if this is some kind of counter-psy-op...

    Well, there’s fake news and then there’s fake news, and then fake news about fake news, and then …

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  • Can anyone explain to me why this report, including what Assange is quoted as saying – http://www.awdnews.com/political/assange-forget-russia-,-the-real-threat-to-america-comes-from-israel-and-the-israel-lobby – was lifted word-for-word from this (Giraldi’s) article (which dates 12 days earlier)??

    Being that the Unz Review has had the “inside scoop” on Assange from his inner circle previously, and that Giraldi is former CIA (but surely a loyalist), I’m almost wondering if this is some kind of counter-psy-op…

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    Well, there's fake news and then there's fake news, and then fake news about fake news, and then ...
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @iffen
    Speaking of fake news, I guess the MSM's claim that we elected a Nazi as President was incorrect.

    From The Hill:

    President-elect Donald Trump on Thursday called for a United Nations Security Council resolution that would halt Israeli settlement activities to be vetoed.

    "As the United States has long maintained, peace between the Israelis and the Palestinians will only come through direct negotiations between the parties, and not through the imposition of terms by the United Nations," Trump said in a statement.

    "This puts Israel in a very poor negotiating position and is extremely unfair to all Israelis."

    President-elect Donald Trump on Thursday called for a United Nations Security Council resolution that would halt Israeli settlement activities to be vetoed.

    “As the United States has long maintained, peace between the Israelis and the Palestinians will only come through direct negotiations between the parties, and not through the imposition of terms by the United Nations,” Trump said in a statement.

    Trump campaigned that he would solve the Israeli/Palestine issue. That was an explicit promise.

    Here he says that the US will not impose anything on Israel.

    How is he going to solve this, if he puts no pressure on Israel? Israel on its own will never freely give the Palestinians any of their land – PERIOD.

    He is lying in that statement or when he was campaigning – one of the two.

    Peace — Art

    p.s. From the looks of his appointments, he was lying in the campaign.

    p.s. Or maybe he plans to shove something down the Palestinians throats.

    Read More
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  • Why limit yourself to two types?

    Just two ends of the continuum… but you can insert as many types as you like in between.

    Read More
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  • @geokat62

    Speaking of fake news, I guess the MSM’s claim that we elected a Nazi as President was incorrect.
     
    That's not how the game works, iffen. Recall there are two types of Zionists: while a small percentage are conservative, the overwhelming majority are liberal. So while Trump may implement policies that favour the Jewish state, the liberal Zionists will still call him a Nazi for being a racist, misogynist, Islamophobe, etc.

    So don't expect the fake news to end anytime soon.

    Recall there are two types of Zionists

    The Jew-matrix hedges its political bets, huh?

    I guess that explains why they are so good at managing hedge funds.

    Why limit yourself to two types?

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @iffen
    Speaking of fake news, I guess the MSM's claim that we elected a Nazi as President was incorrect.

    From The Hill:

    President-elect Donald Trump on Thursday called for a United Nations Security Council resolution that would halt Israeli settlement activities to be vetoed.

    "As the United States has long maintained, peace between the Israelis and the Palestinians will only come through direct negotiations between the parties, and not through the imposition of terms by the United Nations," Trump said in a statement.

    "This puts Israel in a very poor negotiating position and is extremely unfair to all Israelis."

    Speaking of fake news, I guess the MSM’s claim that we elected a Nazi as President was incorrect.

    That’s not how the game works, iffen. Recall there are two types of Zionists: while a small percentage are conservative, the overwhelming majority are liberal. So while Trump may implement policies that favour the Jewish state, the liberal Zionists will still call him a Nazi for being a racist, misogynist, Islamophobe, etc.

    So don’t expect the fake news to end anytime soon.

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    Recall there are two types of Zionists

    The Jew-matrix hedges its political bets, huh?

    I guess that explains why they are so good at managing hedge funds.

    Why limit yourself to two types?
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Speaking of fake news, I guess the MSM’s claim that we elected a Nazi as President was incorrect.

    From The Hill:

    President-elect Donald Trump on Thursday called for a United Nations Security Council resolution that would halt Israeli settlement activities to be vetoed.

    “As the United States has long maintained, peace between the Israelis and the Palestinians will only come through direct negotiations between the parties, and not through the imposition of terms by the United Nations,” Trump said in a statement.

    “This puts Israel in a very poor negotiating position and is extremely unfair to all Israelis.”

    Read More
    • Replies: @geokat62

    Speaking of fake news, I guess the MSM’s claim that we elected a Nazi as President was incorrect.
     
    That's not how the game works, iffen. Recall there are two types of Zionists: while a small percentage are conservative, the overwhelming majority are liberal. So while Trump may implement policies that favour the Jewish state, the liberal Zionists will still call him a Nazi for being a racist, misogynist, Islamophobe, etc.

    So don't expect the fake news to end anytime soon.

    , @Art

    President-elect Donald Trump on Thursday called for a United Nations Security Council resolution that would halt Israeli settlement activities to be vetoed.

    “As the United States has long maintained, peace between the Israelis and the Palestinians will only come through direct negotiations between the parties, and not through the imposition of terms by the United Nations,” Trump said in a statement.

     

    Trump campaigned that he would solve the Israeli/Palestine issue. That was an explicit promise.

    Here he says that the US will not impose anything on Israel.

    How is he going to solve this, if he puts no pressure on Israel? Israel on its own will never freely give the Palestinians any of their land – PERIOD.

    He is lying in that statement or when he was campaigning – one of the two.

    Peace --- Art

    p.s. From the looks of his appointments, he was lying in the campaign.

    p.s. Or maybe he plans to shove something down the Palestinians throats.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @iffen
    what the Jews learned from WWII

    Arts,

    The Zionists and the Jews learned from WWII that you need to rely upon yourself if you want to survive.

    The Palestinians are still standing around with their hats in their hands waiting for the Ottomans, the Arabs, the British or the Americans, and lately the Iranians, to establish a state for them.

    I think their best shot is to become some sort of protectorate within Israel.

    The Zionists and the Jews learned from WWII that you need to rely upon yourself if you want to survive.

    Crusade in Europe, Dwight Eisenhower

    “Of all these DPs the Jews were in the most deplorable condition. . . . Even food, clothes, and decent treatment could not immediately enable them to shake off their hopelessness and apathy. They huddled together — they seemingly derived a feeling of safety out of crowding together in a single room– and there passively awaited whatever might befall. To secure for them adequate shelter, to establish a system of food distribution . . . to say nothing of providing decent sanitary facilities, heat and light was a most difficult task. They were, in many instances, no longer capable of helping themselves; everything had to be done for them.

    Read More
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  • @Art
    What you should do is learn from it and if you were nice men you would not aid and abet hatred of any ethnic group.

    Say iffen,

    Hmm - do what I say - not what I do!

    How perverse - we must ask the Palestinians what the Jews learned from WWII.

    Peace --- Art

    what the Jews learned from WWII

    Arts,

    The Zionists and the Jews learned from WWII that you need to rely upon yourself if you want to survive.

    The Palestinians are still standing around with their hats in their hands waiting for the Ottomans, the Arabs, the British or the Americans, and lately the Iranians, to establish a state for them.

    I think their best shot is to become some sort of protectorate within Israel.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous

    The Zionists and the Jews learned from WWII that you need to rely upon yourself if you want to survive.
     
    Crusade in Europe, Dwight Eisenhower

    "Of all these DPs the Jews were in the most deplorable condition. . . . Even food, clothes, and decent treatment could not immediately enable them to shake off their hopelessness and apathy. They huddled together -- they seemingly derived a feeling of safety out of crowding together in a single room-- and there passively awaited whatever might befall. To secure for them adequate shelter, to establish a system of food distribution . . . to say nothing of providing decent sanitary facilities, heat and light was a most difficult task. They were, in many instances, no longer capable of helping themselves; everything had to be done for them."
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @jacques sheete

    There would have been a broad ethnic mix ...
     
    At last, a breath of fresh air! Of course that's true (probably all of us are mutts to one degree or another), but try to convince people of that and you might as well claim yer the king of the world.

    I recently had a very brief encounter with a rabbi and asked him the question. His response was yer a Jew if yer mother was one. Unfortunately we never got to discuss it further.

    Anyway, no matter how one slices it, Jews are not any longer an ethnic group or race, yet many still seem to think that way.

    Yes, this was a great line-

    Methinks the whole thing is a political construct that bears little actual truth to it

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  • @NoseytheDuke
    I don't know about that Talha. Many people here have asked the question what is a Jew? The area referred to as Judea was part of the fertile crescent where people migrated to and from many different areas towards the reliable places of abundance, Egypt and Mesopotamia. There would have been a broad ethnic mix there even in ancient times so who is to say what would have been considered Jewish then anyway? Jesus certainly wasn't too fond of those at the top of the power structure there either be they Roman, Sadducee or Pharasee, it seems. Avram himself seems to have originally been from Mesopotamia anyway and if a Summerian, who knows where his crew originated. Methinks the whole thing is a political construct that bears little actual truth to it.

    The notion of God the Creator working in the Real Estate business is blasphemy itself. One of the gods maybe just as it was Lord Jethro of Midian who doled out the Ten Commandments but not the Creator.

    The very fact that we are approaching the "Christmas" holidays with little to no historical basis other than the factual Roman festival of Invictus Natalis should be enough. Here in Australia we celebrate a winter festival during our hot summer so no wonder the world has stepped out of life's procession (to quote a term used by Khalil Gibran :o).

    Salaam to you at "Christmas"

    There would have been a broad ethnic mix …

    At last, a breath of fresh air! Of course that’s true (probably all of us are mutts to one degree or another), but try to convince people of that and you might as well claim yer the king of the world.

    I recently had a very brief encounter with a rabbi and asked him the question. His response was yer a Jew if yer mother was one. Unfortunately we never got to discuss it further.

    Anyway, no matter how one slices it, Jews are not any longer an ethnic group or race, yet many still seem to think that way.

    Read More
    • Replies: @RobinG
    Yes, this was a great line-

    Methinks the whole thing is a political construct that bears little actual truth to it
     
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @geokat62

    ... I see it as truly dangerous.
     
    Now I know why some on this webzine were a little reluctant to discuss "the deepest wellsprings of human thought."

    Today’s disintegration of the family can be laid entirely at the door of the Frankfurt School. Lenin said, “Destroy the family and you destroy society.” His followers have proven him right:

    “[Antonio] Gramsci* hated marriage and the family, the very founding blocks of a civilized society. To him, marriage was a plot, a conspiracy… to perpetuate an evil system that oppressed women and children. It was a dangerous institution, characterized by violence and exploitation, the forerunner of fascism and tyranny. Patriarchy served as the main target of the cultural Marxists. They strove to feminize the family with legions of single and homosexual mothers and ‘fathers’ who would serve to weaken the structure of civilized society.”

    …[A]nother cultural Marxist (George Lukacs) brought the Gramscian strategy to the schools… As deputy commissioner in Hungary… his first task was to put radical sex education in the schools… it was the best way to destroy traditional sexual morality, and weaken the family. Hungarian children learned… free love, sexual intercourse, and the archaic nature of middle-class family codes, the obsolete nature of monogamy, and the irrelevance of organized religion which deprived man of pleasure. Children were urged to deride and ignore… parental authority, and precepts of traditional morality. If this sounds familiar, it is because this is what is happening in our public… schools.

    …Under the rubric of ‘diversity,’ [cultural Marxism's] hidden goal is to impose a uniformity of thought and behavior on all Americans. The cultural Marxists, often teachers, university professors and administrators, TV producers, newspaper editor and the like, serve as gatekeepers by keeping all traditional and positive ideas, especially religious ideas, out of the public marketplace.

    Herbert Marcuse was largely responsible for bringing cultural Marxism to the United States… He believed that all taboos, especially sexual ones, should be relaxed. “Make love, not war!” was his battle cry that echoed through ivy-covered college campuses all over America. His methodology for rebellion included the deconstruction of the language, the infamous “what does ‘is’ mean?” which fostered the destruction of the culture. By confusing and obliterating word meanings, he helped cause a breakdown in the social conformity of the nation, especially among the… young of America…

    https://alettertothetimes.wordpress.com/2009/03/11/the-frankfurt-school-and-cultural-marxism-a-primer/


    * By winning 'cultural hegemony,' Gramsci pointed out that they could control the deepest wellsprings of human thought -- through the medium of mass psychology. Indeed, men could be made to 'love their servitude.' In terms of the gospel of the Frankfurt School, resistance to 'cultural Marxism' could be completely negated by placing the resister in a psychic 'iron cage.' The tools of mass psychology could be applied to produce this result.

    Antonio Gramsci, a young communist who died in one of Mussolini's prisons in 1937 at the age of 46, conjured up the notion of a 'quiet' revolution that could be diffused throughout a culture -- over a period of time -- to destroy it from within. He was the first to suggest that the application of psychology to break the traditions, beliefs, morals, and will of a people could be accomplished quietly and without the possibility of resistance. He deduced that "The civilized world had been thoroughly saturated with Christianity for 2,000 years..." and a culture based on this religion could only be captured from within.

    http://www.crossroad.to/articles2/0013/common-core/cc-frankfurt_school.htm
     

    Excellent comment!

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  • @iffen
    Arts,

    Check with all the other Arts. One or more of you certified me as non-kosher.

    I don't want you to feel guilty about WWII, you shouldn't.

    What you should do is learn from it and if you were nice men you would not aid and abet hatred of any ethnic group.

    What you should do is learn from it and if you were nice men you would not aid and abet hatred of any ethnic group.

    Say iffen,

    Hmm – do what I say – not what I do!

    How perverse – we must ask the Palestinians what the Jews learned from WWII.

    Peace — Art

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    what the Jews learned from WWII

    Arts,

    The Zionists and the Jews learned from WWII that you need to rely upon yourself if you want to survive.

    The Palestinians are still standing around with their hats in their hands waiting for the Ottomans, the Arabs, the British or the Americans, and lately the Iranians, to establish a state for them.

    I think their best shot is to become some sort of protectorate within Israel.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Talha
    Hey Art,

    Agreed - and the fact that it is clearly stated in Britannica is testament to how clear and definitive this connection is even though the public has little clue.

    If you look through my comment history, I am constantly bringing up Post-Modernism as the key culprit; to me it is the river that has consumed everything else, its tributaries are manifold.

    Geo points out its connection to the Frankfurt School - though I am agnostic as to its exact origins - I see it as truly dangerous.

    Peace.

    … I see it as truly dangerous.

    Now I know why some on this webzine were a little reluctant to discuss “the deepest wellsprings of human thought.”

    [MORE]

    Today’s disintegration of the family can be laid entirely at the door of the Frankfurt School. Lenin said, “Destroy the family and you destroy society.” His followers have proven him right:

    “[Antonio] Gramsci* hated marriage and the family, the very founding blocks of a civilized society. To him, marriage was a plot, a conspiracy… to perpetuate an evil system that oppressed women and children. It was a dangerous institution, characterized by violence and exploitation, the forerunner of fascism and tyranny. Patriarchy served as the main target of the cultural Marxists. They strove to feminize the family with legions of single and homosexual mothers and ‘fathers’ who would serve to weaken the structure of civilized society.”

    …[A]nother cultural Marxist (George Lukacs) brought the Gramscian strategy to the schools… As deputy commissioner in Hungary… his first task was to put radical sex education in the schools… it was the best way to destroy traditional sexual morality, and weaken the family. Hungarian children learned… free love, sexual intercourse, and the archaic nature of middle-class family codes, the obsolete nature of monogamy, and the irrelevance of organized religion which deprived man of pleasure. Children were urged to deride and ignore… parental authority, and precepts of traditional morality. If this sounds familiar, it is because this is what is happening in our public… schools.

    …Under the rubric of ‘diversity,’ [cultural Marxism's] hidden goal is to impose a uniformity of thought and behavior on all Americans. The cultural Marxists, often teachers, university professors and administrators, TV producers, newspaper editor and the like, serve as gatekeepers by keeping all traditional and positive ideas, especially religious ideas, out of the public marketplace.

    Herbert Marcuse was largely responsible for bringing cultural Marxism to the United States… He believed that all taboos, especially sexual ones, should be relaxed. “Make love, not war!” was his battle cry that echoed through ivy-covered college campuses all over America. His methodology for rebellion included the deconstruction of the language, the infamous “what does ‘is’ mean?” which fostered the destruction of the culture. By confusing and obliterating word meanings, he helped cause a breakdown in the social conformity of the nation, especially among the… young of America…

    https://alettertothetimes.wordpress.com/2009/03/11/the-frankfurt-school-and-cultural-marxism-a-primer/

    * By winning ‘cultural hegemony,’ Gramsci pointed out that they could control the deepest wellsprings of human thought — through the medium of mass psychology. Indeed, men could be made to ‘love their servitude.’ In terms of the gospel of the Frankfurt School, resistance to ‘cultural Marxism’ could be completely negated by placing the resister in a psychic ‘iron cage.’ The tools of mass psychology could be applied to produce this result.

    Antonio Gramsci, a young communist who died in one of Mussolini’s prisons in 1937 at the age of 46, conjured up the notion of a ‘quiet’ revolution that could be diffused throughout a culture — over a period of time — to destroy it from within. He was the first to suggest that the application of psychology to break the traditions, beliefs, morals, and will of a people could be accomplished quietly and without the possibility of resistance. He deduced that “The civilized world had been thoroughly saturated with Christianity for 2,000 years…” and a culture based on this religion could only be captured from within.

    http://www.crossroad.to/articles2/0013/common-core/cc-frankfurt_school.htm

    Read More
    • Replies: @jacques sheete
    Excellent comment!
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Talha
    Hey Art,

    Agreed - and the fact that it is clearly stated in Britannica is testament to how clear and definitive this connection is even though the public has little clue.

    If you look through my comment history, I am constantly bringing up Post-Modernism as the key culprit; to me it is the river that has consumed everything else, its tributaries are manifold.

    Geo points out its connection to the Frankfurt School - though I am agnostic as to its exact origins - I see it as truly dangerous.

    Peace.

    Geo points out its connection to the Frankfurt School – though I am agnostic as to its exact origins…

    I did a little more digging into this relationship. Here is what I’ve found, thus far:

    1. Postmodern philosophy has strong relations with the substantial literature of critical theory.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postmodern_philosophy

    2. Additionally since [Jürgen] Habermas, the third generation [of critical therists] has engaged in dialogue with French post-modern philosophers like Derrida, Baudrillard, Lyotard, and so forth, which according to Foucault are legitimate interpreters of some central instances of the Frankfurt School…

    The debate between Foucault and Critical Theory – and in particular Habermas – is quite illuminating of the common “critical” purposes versus the diverging methodologies defended by the two approaches.

    http://www.iep.utm.edu/frankfur/

    3. One of the core texts of Critical Theory, Dialectic of Enlightenment explores the socio-psychological status quo that had been responsible for what the Frankfurt School considered the failure of the Age of Enlightenment. Together with The Authoritarian Personality (1950; also co-authored by Adorno) and Frankfurt School member Herbert Marcuse’s One-Dimensional Man (1964), it has had a major effect on 20th century philosophy, sociology, culture, and politics, inspiring especially the New Left* of the 1960s and 1970s.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialectic_of_Enlightenment

    * The New Left was a broad political movement mainly in the 1960s and 1970s consisting of educators, agitators and others who sought to implement a broad range of reforms on issues such as civil rights, gay rights, abortion, gender roles, and drugs, in contrast to earlier leftist or Marxist movements that had taken a more vanguardist approach to social justice and focused mostly on labor unionization and questions of social class. Sections of the New Left rejected involvement with the labor movement and Marxism’s historical theory of class struggle, although others gravitated to variants of Marxism like Maoism. In the United States, the movement was associated with the hippie movement and anti-war college-campus protest movements including the Free Speech Movement…

    The German-Jewish critical theorist Herbert Marcuse is referred to as the “Father of the New Left”. He rejected the theory of class struggle and the Marxist concern with labor. According to Leszek Kołakowski, Marcuse argued that since “all questions of material existence have been solved, moral commands and prohibitions are no longer relevant”. He regarded the realization of man’s erotic nature as the true liberation of humanity, which inspired the utopias of Jerry Rubin and others.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Left

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Talha
    Hey Art,

    Agreed - and the fact that it is clearly stated in Britannica is testament to how clear and definitive this connection is even though the public has little clue.

    If you look through my comment history, I am constantly bringing up Post-Modernism as the key culprit; to me it is the river that has consumed everything else, its tributaries are manifold.

    Geo points out its connection to the Frankfurt School - though I am agnostic as to its exact origins - I see it as truly dangerous.

    Peace.

    the key culprit; to me it is the river that has consumed everything else, its tributaries are manifold.

    Wrong thinking by whatever name has always been the enemy. :)

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Art

    In the 1980s and ’90s, academic advocates on behalf of various ethnic, cultural, racial, and religious groups embraced postmodern critiques of contemporary Western society, and postmodernism became the unofficial philosophy of the new movement of “identity politics.””

    https://www.britannica.com/topic/postmodernism-philosophy
     
    Thanks Talha - - I have not seen that stated so clearly before.

    Peace --- Art

    Hey Art,

    Agreed – and the fact that it is clearly stated in Britannica is testament to how clear and definitive this connection is even though the public has little clue.

    If you look through my comment history, I am constantly bringing up Post-Modernism as the key culprit; to me it is the river that has consumed everything else, its tributaries are manifold.

    Geo points out its connection to the Frankfurt School – though I am agnostic as to its exact origins – I see it as truly dangerous.

    Peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    the key culprit; to me it is the river that has consumed everything else, its tributaries are manifold.

    Wrong thinking by whatever name has always been the enemy. :)
    , @geokat62

    Geo points out its connection to the Frankfurt School – though I am agnostic as to its exact origins...
     
    I did a little more digging into this relationship. Here is what I've found, thus far:

    1. Postmodern philosophy has strong relations with the substantial literature of critical theory.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postmodern_philosophy

    2. Additionally since [Jürgen] Habermas, the third generation [of critical therists] has engaged in dialogue with French post-modern philosophers like Derrida, Baudrillard, Lyotard, and so forth, which according to Foucault are legitimate interpreters of some central instances of the Frankfurt School...

    The debate between Foucault and Critical Theory – and in particular Habermas – is quite illuminating of the common “critical” purposes versus the diverging methodologies defended by the two approaches.

    http://www.iep.utm.edu/frankfur/

    3. One of the core texts of Critical Theory, Dialectic of Enlightenment explores the socio-psychological status quo that had been responsible for what the Frankfurt School considered the failure of the Age of Enlightenment. Together with The Authoritarian Personality (1950; also co-authored by Adorno) and Frankfurt School member Herbert Marcuse's One-Dimensional Man (1964), it has had a major effect on 20th century philosophy, sociology, culture, and politics, inspiring especially the New Left* of the 1960s and 1970s.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialectic_of_Enlightenment

    * The New Left was a broad political movement mainly in the 1960s and 1970s consisting of educators, agitators and others who sought to implement a broad range of reforms on issues such as civil rights, gay rights, abortion, gender roles, and drugs, in contrast to earlier leftist or Marxist movements that had taken a more vanguardist approach to social justice and focused mostly on labor unionization and questions of social class. Sections of the New Left rejected involvement with the labor movement and Marxism's historical theory of class struggle, although others gravitated to variants of Marxism like Maoism. In the United States, the movement was associated with the hippie movement and anti-war college-campus protest movements including the Free Speech Movement...

    The German-Jewish critical theorist Herbert Marcuse is referred to as the "Father of the New Left". He rejected the theory of class struggle and the Marxist concern with labor. According to Leszek Kołakowski, Marcuse argued that since "all questions of material existence have been solved, moral commands and prohibitions are no longer relevant". He regarded the realization of man's erotic nature as the true liberation of humanity, which inspired the utopias of Jerry Rubin and others.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Left
     
    , @geokat62

    ... I see it as truly dangerous.
     
    Now I know why some on this webzine were a little reluctant to discuss "the deepest wellsprings of human thought."

    Today’s disintegration of the family can be laid entirely at the door of the Frankfurt School. Lenin said, “Destroy the family and you destroy society.” His followers have proven him right:

    “[Antonio] Gramsci* hated marriage and the family, the very founding blocks of a civilized society. To him, marriage was a plot, a conspiracy… to perpetuate an evil system that oppressed women and children. It was a dangerous institution, characterized by violence and exploitation, the forerunner of fascism and tyranny. Patriarchy served as the main target of the cultural Marxists. They strove to feminize the family with legions of single and homosexual mothers and ‘fathers’ who would serve to weaken the structure of civilized society.”

    …[A]nother cultural Marxist (George Lukacs) brought the Gramscian strategy to the schools… As deputy commissioner in Hungary… his first task was to put radical sex education in the schools… it was the best way to destroy traditional sexual morality, and weaken the family. Hungarian children learned… free love, sexual intercourse, and the archaic nature of middle-class family codes, the obsolete nature of monogamy, and the irrelevance of organized religion which deprived man of pleasure. Children were urged to deride and ignore… parental authority, and precepts of traditional morality. If this sounds familiar, it is because this is what is happening in our public… schools.

    …Under the rubric of ‘diversity,’ [cultural Marxism's] hidden goal is to impose a uniformity of thought and behavior on all Americans. The cultural Marxists, often teachers, university professors and administrators, TV producers, newspaper editor and the like, serve as gatekeepers by keeping all traditional and positive ideas, especially religious ideas, out of the public marketplace.

    Herbert Marcuse was largely responsible for bringing cultural Marxism to the United States… He believed that all taboos, especially sexual ones, should be relaxed. “Make love, not war!” was his battle cry that echoed through ivy-covered college campuses all over America. His methodology for rebellion included the deconstruction of the language, the infamous “what does ‘is’ mean?” which fostered the destruction of the culture. By confusing and obliterating word meanings, he helped cause a breakdown in the social conformity of the nation, especially among the… young of America…

    https://alettertothetimes.wordpress.com/2009/03/11/the-frankfurt-school-and-cultural-marxism-a-primer/


    * By winning 'cultural hegemony,' Gramsci pointed out that they could control the deepest wellsprings of human thought -- through the medium of mass psychology. Indeed, men could be made to 'love their servitude.' In terms of the gospel of the Frankfurt School, resistance to 'cultural Marxism' could be completely negated by placing the resister in a psychic 'iron cage.' The tools of mass psychology could be applied to produce this result.

    Antonio Gramsci, a young communist who died in one of Mussolini's prisons in 1937 at the age of 46, conjured up the notion of a 'quiet' revolution that could be diffused throughout a culture -- over a period of time -- to destroy it from within. He was the first to suggest that the application of psychology to break the traditions, beliefs, morals, and will of a people could be accomplished quietly and without the possibility of resistance. He deduced that "The civilized world had been thoroughly saturated with Christianity for 2,000 years..." and a culture based on this religion could only be captured from within.

    http://www.crossroad.to/articles2/0013/common-core/cc-frankfurt_school.htm
     
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Art

    Art: by obsessing about the long ago past.

    What is it about thinking about the past that worries you, Arts? Is there something back there that you want us to forget?

     

    Oh iffen,

    Poor you - you cannot help but display your inferior Jewish upbringing.

    Good people, smart people, forgive the past – they do it for themselves – forgiving others, frees the aggrieved to get back to living for the future. Forgiving acknowledges wrong doing and it breaks the cycle of injuries.

    Second – I have no guilt about WWII – I had nothing to do with it. I bet that no one on this web site had a single thing to do with the causes or actions of WWII. Yet you, a thousand times have attempted to put a guilt trip on all of us. You are not a nice man.

    Peace --- Art

    p.s. Jesus said “forgive them Father for they know not what they do.” Clearly you fit into that situation – you inferior Jew upbringing inculcated you with the wrong that you do us.

    Arts,

    Check with all the other Arts. One or more of you certified me as non-kosher.

    I don’t want you to feel guilty about WWII, you shouldn’t.

    What you should do is learn from it and if you were nice men you would not aid and abet hatred of any ethnic group.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art
    What you should do is learn from it and if you were nice men you would not aid and abet hatred of any ethnic group.

    Say iffen,

    Hmm - do what I say - not what I do!

    How perverse - we must ask the Palestinians what the Jews learned from WWII.

    Peace --- Art
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Talha
    Exactly - if Modernism questioned some of the assumptions of Christian civilization - Post-Modernism turned even that on its head...

    "Postmodernism as a philosophical movement is largely a reaction against the philosophical assumptions and values of the modern period of Western (specifically European) history—i.e., the period from about the time of the scientific revolution of the 16th and 17th centuries to the mid-20th century. Indeed, many of the doctrines characteristically associated with postmodernism can fairly be described as the straightforward denial of general philosophical viewpoints that were taken for granted during the 18th-century Enlightenment, though they were not unique to that period....In the 1980s and ’90s, academic advocates on behalf of various ethnic, cultural, racial, and religious groups embraced postmodern critiques of contemporary Western society, and postmodernism became the unofficial philosophy of the new movement of “identity politics.”"
    https://www.britannica.com/topic/postmodernism-philosophy

    You can see why a person who takes religion very seriously would consider Post-Modernism a threat. Western societies are more prone to its influence, Muslim societies less so because the tradition is based on a human chain going back to the Prophet (pbuh) over 14 centuries. But it is hitting us hard as well.

    Peace.

    It seems that all roads of critical theory lead to Frankfurt, Germany, as Postmodernism and Cultural Marxism are just two sides of the same coin:

    The Frankfurt School was an important influence behind the various leftist movements which started in the 1960s.

    Many later cultural ideologies such as postmodernism, postcolonialism, deconstruction, and multiculturalism are heavily influenced by critical theory.

    http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Marxism

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Talha
    Exactly - if Modernism questioned some of the assumptions of Christian civilization - Post-Modernism turned even that on its head...

    "Postmodernism as a philosophical movement is largely a reaction against the philosophical assumptions and values of the modern period of Western (specifically European) history—i.e., the period from about the time of the scientific revolution of the 16th and 17th centuries to the mid-20th century. Indeed, many of the doctrines characteristically associated with postmodernism can fairly be described as the straightforward denial of general philosophical viewpoints that were taken for granted during the 18th-century Enlightenment, though they were not unique to that period....In the 1980s and ’90s, academic advocates on behalf of various ethnic, cultural, racial, and religious groups embraced postmodern critiques of contemporary Western society, and postmodernism became the unofficial philosophy of the new movement of “identity politics.”"
    https://www.britannica.com/topic/postmodernism-philosophy

    You can see why a person who takes religion very seriously would consider Post-Modernism a threat. Western societies are more prone to its influence, Muslim societies less so because the tradition is based on a human chain going back to the Prophet (pbuh) over 14 centuries. But it is hitting us hard as well.

    Peace.

    In the 1980s and ’90s, academic advocates on behalf of various ethnic, cultural, racial, and religious groups embraced postmodern critiques of contemporary Western society, and postmodernism became the unofficial philosophy of the new movement of “identity politics.””

    https://www.britannica.com/topic/postmodernism-philosophy

    Thanks Talha – – I have not seen that stated so clearly before.

    Peace — Art

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey Art,

    Agreed - and the fact that it is clearly stated in Britannica is testament to how clear and definitive this connection is even though the public has little clue.

    If you look through my comment history, I am constantly bringing up Post-Modernism as the key culprit; to me it is the river that has consumed everything else, its tributaries are manifold.

    Geo points out its connection to the Frankfurt School - though I am agnostic as to its exact origins - I see it as truly dangerous.

    Peace.

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @iffen
    by obsessing about the long ago past.

    What is it about thinking about the past that worries you, Arts? Is there something back there that you want us to forget?

    Art: by obsessing about the long ago past.

    What is it about thinking about the past that worries you, Arts? Is there something back there that you want us to forget?

    Oh iffen,

    Poor you – you cannot help but display your inferior Jewish upbringing.

    Good people, smart people, forgive the past – they do it for themselves – forgiving others, frees the aggrieved to get back to living for the future. Forgiving acknowledges wrong doing and it breaks the cycle of injuries.

    Second – I have no guilt about WWII – I had nothing to do with it. I bet that no one on this web site had a single thing to do with the causes or actions of WWII. Yet you, a thousand times have attempted to put a guilt trip on all of us. You are not a nice man.

    Peace — Art

    p.s. Jesus said “forgive them Father for they know not what they do.” Clearly you fit into that situation – you inferior Jew upbringing inculcated you with the wrong that you do us.

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    Arts,

    Check with all the other Arts. One or more of you certified me as non-kosher.

    I don't want you to feel guilty about WWII, you shouldn't.

    What you should do is learn from it and if you were nice men you would not aid and abet hatred of any ethnic group.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @geokat62

    Who are the thinkers responsible for developing the theories that underpin this ideology, or does it even have an underlying ideology? If it does, is there a counterpart to the Frankfurt School, for example?
     
    Well, what do you know:

    But how can we claim the 'causes' of the breakdown of our schools, our universities, indeed, the very fiber of our culture were a product of a tiny group of intellectuals who immigrated from Germany in 1933? Given all of the special-interest groups involved in these activities, how can we trace these 'causes' to the Frankfurt school? Look at some of the evidence...

    As an example, postmodern reconstruction of the history of Western Civilization (now prevalent in our universities) has its roots in the Critical Theory of the Frankfurt School. This rewriting of history by the postmodern scholars in America has only recently come under attack. Keith Windschuttle, in his book, 'Killing of History,' has severely criticized the rush to 'relativism' by historiographers. What is truly astonishing, however, is that 'relativism' has largely supplanted the pursuit of truth as a goal in historical study. George G. Iggers' recently published book, 'Historiography in the Twentieth Century: From Scientific Objectivity to the Postmodern Challenge,' reminds us of the now famous line by Hayden White, a postmodernist, "Historical narratives...are verbal fictions, the contents of which are more invented than found." He quotes other postmodernists, mostly non-historians, who "...reinforce the proposition that truth and reality are primarily authoritarian weapons of our times." We now recognize the source of this postmodern assault -- the cultural Marxists of the Frankfurt School who became experts in criticizing the 'authoritarian personality' in American culture.

    Herbert London refutes White's proposition by observing, "...if history is largely invention, who can say with authority that the American Revolution came before the French Revolution?" He observes that evidence has taken a back seat to inventiveness. He thus cuts right to the chase -- the inventions of postmodernism, which are cutting successive generations of Americans off from their culture and their history, evolved directly from the 'cultural Marxist' scholars of the Frankfurt School.


    How did this situation come about in America's universities? Gertrude Himmelfarb has observed that it slipped past those traditional academics almost unobserved until it was too late. It occurred so 'quietly' that when they 'looked up,' postmodernism was upon them with a vengeance. "They were surrounded by a tidal wave of faddish multicultural subjects such as radical feminism, deconstructed relativism as history and other courses" which undermine the perpetuation of Western Civilization. Indeed, this tidal wave slipped by just as Antonio Gramsci and the Frankfurt School had envisioned -- a 'quiet' revolution. A revolution that could not be resisted by force.

    It is important to realize that this movement, 'cultural Marxism,' exists, understand where it came from, and what its objectives were -- the complete destruction of Western Civilization in America. That is, these 'cultural Marxists' aimed to destroy, slowly but surely from the bottom up, the entire fabric of American Civilization.

    http://www.wvwnews.net/story.php?id=8183
     

    Exactly – if Modernism questioned some of the assumptions of Christian civilization – Post-Modernism turned even that on its head…

    “Postmodernism as a philosophical movement is largely a reaction against the philosophical assumptions and values of the modern period of Western (specifically European) history—i.e., the period from about the time of the scientific revolution of the 16th and 17th centuries to the mid-20th century. Indeed, many of the doctrines characteristically associated with postmodernism can fairly be described as the straightforward denial of general philosophical viewpoints that were taken for granted during the 18th-century Enlightenment, though they were not unique to that period….In the 1980s and ’90s, academic advocates on behalf of various ethnic, cultural, racial, and religious groups embraced postmodern critiques of contemporary Western society, and postmodernism became the unofficial philosophy of the new movement of “identity politics.””

    https://www.britannica.com/topic/postmodernism-philosophy

    You can see why a person who takes religion very seriously would consider Post-Modernism a threat. Western societies are more prone to its influence, Muslim societies less so because the tradition is based on a human chain going back to the Prophet (pbuh) over 14 centuries. But it is hitting us hard as well.

    Peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art

    In the 1980s and ’90s, academic advocates on behalf of various ethnic, cultural, racial, and religious groups embraced postmodern critiques of contemporary Western society, and postmodernism became the unofficial philosophy of the new movement of “identity politics.””

    https://www.britannica.com/topic/postmodernism-philosophy
     
    Thanks Talha - - I have not seen that stated so clearly before.

    Peace --- Art
    , @geokat62
    It seems that all roads of critical theory lead to Frankfurt, Germany, as Postmodernism and Cultural Marxism are just two sides of the same coin:

    The Frankfurt School was an important influence behind the various leftist movements which started in the 1960s.

    Many later cultural ideologies such as postmodernism, postcolonialism, deconstruction, and multiculturalism are heavily influenced by critical theory.

    http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Marxism
     
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @geokat62

    ... post-Modernity replacing Christianity as the ethos of Western culture and norms
     
    Hey, Talha. So are you suggesting that cultural Marxism is not responsible for "replacing Christianity as the ethos of Western culture and norms," but post-Modernity is?

    Post-Modernity? I've heard of this term before, but I'm not very familiar with its origins. Who are the thinkers responsible for developing the theories that underpin this ideology, or does it even have an underlying ideology? If it does, is there a counterpart to the Frankfurt School, for example?

    Who are the thinkers responsible for developing the theories that underpin this ideology, or does it even have an underlying ideology? If it does, is there a counterpart to the Frankfurt School, for example?

    Well, what do you know:

    But how can we claim the ’causes’ of the breakdown of our schools, our universities, indeed, the very fiber of our culture were a product of a tiny group of intellectuals who immigrated from Germany in 1933? Given all of the special-interest groups involved in these activities, how can we trace these ’causes’ to the Frankfurt school? Look at some of the evidence…

    As an example, postmodern reconstruction of the history of Western Civilization (now prevalent in our universities) has its roots in the Critical Theory of the Frankfurt School. This rewriting of history by the postmodern scholars in America has only recently come under attack. Keith Windschuttle, in his book, ‘Killing of History,’ has severely criticized the rush to ‘relativism’ by historiographers. What is truly astonishing, however, is that ‘relativism’ has largely supplanted the pursuit of truth as a goal in historical study. George G. Iggers’ recently published book, ‘Historiography in the Twentieth Century: From Scientific Objectivity to the Postmodern Challenge,’ reminds us of the now famous line by Hayden White, a postmodernist, “Historical narratives…are verbal fictions, the contents of which are more invented than found.” He quotes other postmodernists, mostly non-historians, who “…reinforce the proposition that truth and reality are primarily authoritarian weapons of our times.” We now recognize the source of this postmodern assault — the cultural Marxists of the Frankfurt School who became experts in criticizing the ‘authoritarian personality’ in American culture.

    Herbert London refutes White’s proposition by observing, “…if history is largely invention, who can say with authority that the American Revolution came before the French Revolution?” He observes that evidence has taken a back seat to inventiveness. He thus cuts right to the chase — the inventions of postmodernism, which are cutting successive generations of Americans off from their culture and their history, evolved directly from the ‘cultural Marxist’ scholars of the Frankfurt School.

    How did this situation come about in America’s universities? Gertrude Himmelfarb has observed that it slipped past those traditional academics almost unobserved until it was too late. It occurred so ‘quietly’ that when they ‘looked up,’ postmodernism was upon them with a vengeance. “They were surrounded by a tidal wave of faddish multicultural subjects such as radical feminism, deconstructed relativism as history and other courses” which undermine the perpetuation of Western Civilization. Indeed, this tidal wave slipped by just as Antonio Gramsci and the Frankfurt School had envisioned — a ‘quiet’ revolution. A revolution that could not be resisted by force.

    It is important to realize that this movement, ‘cultural Marxism,’ exists, understand where it came from, and what its objectives were — the complete destruction of Western Civilization in America. That is, these ‘cultural Marxists’ aimed to destroy, slowly but surely from the bottom up, the entire fabric of American Civilization.

    http://www.wvwnews.net/story.php?id=8183

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Exactly - if Modernism questioned some of the assumptions of Christian civilization - Post-Modernism turned even that on its head...

    "Postmodernism as a philosophical movement is largely a reaction against the philosophical assumptions and values of the modern period of Western (specifically European) history—i.e., the period from about the time of the scientific revolution of the 16th and 17th centuries to the mid-20th century. Indeed, many of the doctrines characteristically associated with postmodernism can fairly be described as the straightforward denial of general philosophical viewpoints that were taken for granted during the 18th-century Enlightenment, though they were not unique to that period....In the 1980s and ’90s, academic advocates on behalf of various ethnic, cultural, racial, and religious groups embraced postmodern critiques of contemporary Western society, and postmodernism became the unofficial philosophy of the new movement of “identity politics.”"
    https://www.britannica.com/topic/postmodernism-philosophy

    You can see why a person who takes religion very seriously would consider Post-Modernism a threat. Western societies are more prone to its influence, Muslim societies less so because the tradition is based on a human chain going back to the Prophet (pbuh) over 14 centuries. But it is hitting us hard as well.

    Peace.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Talha
    Hey Geo,

    No, the price is not worth it especially when (I believe) the culprit lies elsewhere; not with Christianity itself but post-Modernity replacing Christianity as the ethos of Western culture and norms. Nietzsche, who himself didn't marry, was conscious of the road Western Man was on, now that he had cast aside the path that religion had carved for him. The fruits of this destruction of the family are being discussed over at Mr. Dinh's latest thread.

    Peace.

    post-Modernity replacing Christianity as the ethos of Western culture and norms

    Hey, Talha. So are you suggesting that cultural Marxism is not responsible for “replacing Christianity as the ethos of Western culture and norms,” but post-Modernity is?

    Post-Modernity? I’ve heard of this term before, but I’m not very familiar with its origins. Who are the thinkers responsible for developing the theories that underpin this ideology, or does it even have an underlying ideology? If it does, is there a counterpart to the Frankfurt School, for example?

    Read More
    • Replies: @geokat62

    Who are the thinkers responsible for developing the theories that underpin this ideology, or does it even have an underlying ideology? If it does, is there a counterpart to the Frankfurt School, for example?
     
    Well, what do you know:

    But how can we claim the 'causes' of the breakdown of our schools, our universities, indeed, the very fiber of our culture were a product of a tiny group of intellectuals who immigrated from Germany in 1933? Given all of the special-interest groups involved in these activities, how can we trace these 'causes' to the Frankfurt school? Look at some of the evidence...

    As an example, postmodern reconstruction of the history of Western Civilization (now prevalent in our universities) has its roots in the Critical Theory of the Frankfurt School. This rewriting of history by the postmodern scholars in America has only recently come under attack. Keith Windschuttle, in his book, 'Killing of History,' has severely criticized the rush to 'relativism' by historiographers. What is truly astonishing, however, is that 'relativism' has largely supplanted the pursuit of truth as a goal in historical study. George G. Iggers' recently published book, 'Historiography in the Twentieth Century: From Scientific Objectivity to the Postmodern Challenge,' reminds us of the now famous line by Hayden White, a postmodernist, "Historical narratives...are verbal fictions, the contents of which are more invented than found." He quotes other postmodernists, mostly non-historians, who "...reinforce the proposition that truth and reality are primarily authoritarian weapons of our times." We now recognize the source of this postmodern assault -- the cultural Marxists of the Frankfurt School who became experts in criticizing the 'authoritarian personality' in American culture.

    Herbert London refutes White's proposition by observing, "...if history is largely invention, who can say with authority that the American Revolution came before the French Revolution?" He observes that evidence has taken a back seat to inventiveness. He thus cuts right to the chase -- the inventions of postmodernism, which are cutting successive generations of Americans off from their culture and their history, evolved directly from the 'cultural Marxist' scholars of the Frankfurt School.


    How did this situation come about in America's universities? Gertrude Himmelfarb has observed that it slipped past those traditional academics almost unobserved until it was too late. It occurred so 'quietly' that when they 'looked up,' postmodernism was upon them with a vengeance. "They were surrounded by a tidal wave of faddish multicultural subjects such as radical feminism, deconstructed relativism as history and other courses" which undermine the perpetuation of Western Civilization. Indeed, this tidal wave slipped by just as Antonio Gramsci and the Frankfurt School had envisioned -- a 'quiet' revolution. A revolution that could not be resisted by force.

    It is important to realize that this movement, 'cultural Marxism,' exists, understand where it came from, and what its objectives were -- the complete destruction of Western Civilization in America. That is, these 'cultural Marxists' aimed to destroy, slowly but surely from the bottom up, the entire fabric of American Civilization.

    http://www.wvwnews.net/story.php?id=8183
     

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Art
    Say iffen,

    How do you manage to sucker in so many good souls into you Nazi – anti-Semite – denier - time wasting worthless miss direction arguments (what - no 88’s anymore?).

    Have to give it to you – you are a masterful determined propagandist. Magnificent ploy - ignoring the current evil done by Zionism - by obsessing about the long ago past.

    I will put you in for a bonus at Hasbara Central.

    Peace --- Art

    by obsessing about the long ago past.

    What is it about thinking about the past that worries you, Arts? Is there something back there that you want us to forget?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art

    Art: by obsessing about the long ago past.

    What is it about thinking about the past that worries you, Arts? Is there something back there that you want us to forget?

     

    Oh iffen,

    Poor you - you cannot help but display your inferior Jewish upbringing.

    Good people, smart people, forgive the past – they do it for themselves – forgiving others, frees the aggrieved to get back to living for the future. Forgiving acknowledges wrong doing and it breaks the cycle of injuries.

    Second – I have no guilt about WWII – I had nothing to do with it. I bet that no one on this web site had a single thing to do with the causes or actions of WWII. Yet you, a thousand times have attempted to put a guilt trip on all of us. You are not a nice man.

    Peace --- Art

    p.s. Jesus said “forgive them Father for they know not what they do.” Clearly you fit into that situation – you inferior Jew upbringing inculcated you with the wrong that you do us.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Art
    The question is, will an American Hitler eventually come on the scene? The answer is, only if America catastrophically fails and goes into a depression. If we stay on the path we are on, that could easily happen.

    Jew bankers controlled Germany’s economy – just like in America today. They drove it into the ground – just as is happening today in America.

    Trump could stop the decline for a while. He is the best hope that the Jews have to keep themselves in power over America. If he somewhat revives America economically, that will keep Jew power in place a while longer.

    Peace --- Art

    If America catastrophically fails and goes into a depression, which is not impossible on the current trajectory I agree, though not necessarily likely either, then all sorts of possibilities arise, but I think civil war, possibly race-based, is more likely than an American Hitler. Though the two possibilities are not mutually exclusive, of course.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @iffen
    My suggestions for you:

    1) Get yourself a 1st Amendment.
    2) Don't use all of your ammunition protecting free speech for Nazis, because Nazis will put "your" free speech where the sun will never shine.
    3) Buy or rent yourself a decent IFF system.

    1) Get yourself a 1st Amendment.

    Love one. But a First Amendment is only useful until one’s country’s establishment senior judges decide to find that “hate speech is not free speech”, and poof! it’s gone overnight. A bit like resistance to abortion.

    I give the US First Amendment a couple of decades at most. Trump’s victory probably put its effective destruction as a useful protection back 5 or 10 years.

    2) Don’t use all of your ammunition protecting free speech for Nazis, because Nazis will put “your” free speech where the sun will never shine.

    There never has been, nor ever will be in my or even in your lifetime, any kind of “Nazi” regime in Britain (unless you overextend “Nazi” even more than the anti-antisemites do, to the point of absurdity), except, remotely, perhaps as a backlash against a truly extreme triumph of and abusive triumphalism by the anti-Semite witch-finders.

    Personally I think (or at least hope) that there will be a milder successful resistance to their politically correct taboo enforcement efforts, long before that point is reached, though their tide is currently rising and I at least might not live to see it turned back.

    3) Buy or rent yourself a decent IFF system.

    Got a reasonable one, thanks, but in political terms I have no permanent friends nor permanent enemies, only interests and opinions.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @iffen
    My suggestions for you:

    1) Get yourself a 1st Amendment.
    2) Don't use all of your ammunition protecting free speech for Nazis, because Nazis will put "your" free speech where the sun will never shine.
    3) Buy or rent yourself a decent IFF system.

    Say iffen,

    How do you manage to sucker in so many good souls into you Nazi – anti-Semite – denier – time wasting worthless miss direction arguments (what – no 88’s anymore?).

    Have to give it to you – you are a masterful determined propagandist. Magnificent ploy – ignoring the current evil done by Zionism – by obsessing about the long ago past.

    I will put you in for a bonus at Hasbara Central.

    Peace — Art

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    by obsessing about the long ago past.

    What is it about thinking about the past that worries you, Arts? Is there something back there that you want us to forget?
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Randal

    If we make the distinction between present day Nazis and legitimate nationalism clear enough we can defeat the efforts of those who intent to destroy legitimate political reform by smearing it with labels that don’t apply. If you say, “Oh don’t worry about those Holocaust deniers, we need free speech,” you are playing a losing hand.
     
    So essentially your suggestion is: don't bother fighting for freedom of speech because those who seek to close it down for their enemies are too strong to fight, and you share their dislike of their targets anyway.

    I don't think it's going to stop at the nice tidy demarcations you presumably hope for. I don't think those who are empowered by such laws are going to just shut down the nasty fascists and Nazis and leave everybody else alone.

    In fact I know for a flat out fact that they won't, based upon direct personal experience. The witch-finders have already moved on from the tiny minority of actual neo-Nazi and genuine anti-Semite types, and are telling me, with open menace and routine personal abuse, to watch my words or face their police jackboot in my turn.

    Easy for you to say I should just roll over for them, for the greater good.

    Not going to happen.

    My suggestions for you:

    1) Get yourself a 1st Amendment.
    2) Don’t use all of your ammunition protecting free speech for Nazis, because Nazis will put “your” free speech where the sun will never shine.
    3) Buy or rent yourself a decent IFF system.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art
    Say iffen,

    How do you manage to sucker in so many good souls into you Nazi – anti-Semite – denier - time wasting worthless miss direction arguments (what - no 88’s anymore?).

    Have to give it to you – you are a masterful determined propagandist. Magnificent ploy - ignoring the current evil done by Zionism - by obsessing about the long ago past.

    I will put you in for a bonus at Hasbara Central.

    Peace --- Art

    , @Randal

    1) Get yourself a 1st Amendment.

     

    Love one. But a First Amendment is only useful until one's country's establishment senior judges decide to find that "hate speech is not free speech", and poof! it's gone overnight. A bit like resistance to abortion.

    I give the US First Amendment a couple of decades at most. Trump's victory probably put its effective destruction as a useful protection back 5 or 10 years.


    2) Don’t use all of your ammunition protecting free speech for Nazis, because Nazis will put “your” free speech where the sun will never shine.
     
    There never has been, nor ever will be in my or even in your lifetime, any kind of "Nazi" regime in Britain (unless you overextend "Nazi" even more than the anti-antisemites do, to the point of absurdity), except, remotely, perhaps as a backlash against a truly extreme triumph of and abusive triumphalism by the anti-Semite witch-finders.

    Personally I think (or at least hope) that there will be a milder successful resistance to their politically correct taboo enforcement efforts, long before that point is reached, though their tide is currently rising and I at least might not live to see it turned back.


    3) Buy or rent yourself a decent IFF system.
     
    Got a reasonable one, thanks, but in political terms I have no permanent friends nor permanent enemies, only interests and opinions.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • If we make the distinction between present day Nazis and legitimate nationalism clear enough we can defeat the efforts of those who intent to destroy legitimate political reform by smearing it with labels that don’t apply. If you say, “Oh don’t worry about those Holocaust deniers, we need free speech,” you are playing a losing hand.

    So essentially your suggestion is: don’t bother fighting for freedom of speech because those who seek to close it down for their enemies are too strong to fight, and you share their dislike of their targets anyway.

    I don’t think it’s going to stop at the nice tidy demarcations you presumably hope for. I don’t think those who are empowered by such laws are going to just shut down the nasty fascists and Nazis and leave everybody else alone.

    In fact I know for a flat out fact that they won’t, based upon direct personal experience. The witch-finders have already moved on from the tiny minority of actual neo-Nazi and genuine anti-Semite types, and are telling me, with open menace and routine personal abuse, to watch my words or face their police jackboot in my turn.

    Easy for you to say I should just roll over for them, for the greater good.

    Not going to happen.

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    My suggestions for you:

    1) Get yourself a 1st Amendment.
    2) Don't use all of your ammunition protecting free speech for Nazis, because Nazis will put "your" free speech where the sun will never shine.
    3) Buy or rent yourself a decent IFF system.

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Randal

    Do you think that you would be any good at it if you thought that it was important?
     
    I suppose so, in that I think I'm pretty sensitive to the connotations and implications of what people write, but there's a limit to how good anyone can be in such an inherently speculative endeavour.

    I can't imagine ever thinking that, though, given that the main real threats to our peace, wellbeing and unity come from the other side - "humanitarian" interventionists, advocates of interventionist wars motivated by ulterior loyalties to ME regional rivals such as Israel, Saudi Arabia and Iran, and political correctness campaigners (whether antiracist, anti-homophobe or anti-anti-Semite) trying to get "hate speech" laws against free speech enacted ever more vigorously to suppress their political rivals. And these real threats cost lives and undermine liberty now, today, and not in some fantasy future where a new Nazi party has arisen to power in places like the US and UK, where such parties have never fared well and likely never will.

    If there ever is a Nazi surge in the US or UK it will be as a backlash against political correctness.

    People are in court and facing prison for speaking their minds, today, in the UK.

    I’m thinking that the heretics get it first and foremost. There’s always a chance to bring the wishy-washy moderates over to your side.
     
    I remember observing (from a safe distance) the process of radicalisation in Yugoslavia in Bosnia. I recall many cases where among the first people killed were those seeking compromise, because they were easier targets and often regarded as traitors by the zealots of their own side.

    The question is, will an American Hitler eventually come on the scene? The answer is, only if America catastrophically fails and goes into a depression. If we stay on the path we are on, that could easily happen.

    Jew bankers controlled Germany’s economy – just like in America today. They drove it into the ground – just as is happening today in America.

    Trump could stop the decline for a while. He is the best hope that the Jews have to keep themselves in power over America. If he somewhat revives America economically, that will keep Jew power in place a while longer.

    Peace — Art

    Read More
    • Replies: @Randal
    If America catastrophically fails and goes into a depression, which is not impossible on the current trajectory I agree, though not necessarily likely either, then all sorts of possibilities arise, but I think civil war, possibly race-based, is more likely than an American Hitler. Though the two possibilities are not mutually exclusive, of course.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Randal

    Do you think that you would be any good at it if you thought that it was important?
     
    I suppose so, in that I think I'm pretty sensitive to the connotations and implications of what people write, but there's a limit to how good anyone can be in such an inherently speculative endeavour.

    I can't imagine ever thinking that, though, given that the main real threats to our peace, wellbeing and unity come from the other side - "humanitarian" interventionists, advocates of interventionist wars motivated by ulterior loyalties to ME regional rivals such as Israel, Saudi Arabia and Iran, and political correctness campaigners (whether antiracist, anti-homophobe or anti-anti-Semite) trying to get "hate speech" laws against free speech enacted ever more vigorously to suppress their political rivals. And these real threats cost lives and undermine liberty now, today, and not in some fantasy future where a new Nazi party has arisen to power in places like the US and UK, where such parties have never fared well and likely never will.

    If there ever is a Nazi surge in the US or UK it will be as a backlash against political correctness.

    People are in court and facing prison for speaking their minds, today, in the UK.

    I’m thinking that the heretics get it first and foremost. There’s always a chance to bring the wishy-washy moderates over to your side.
     
    I remember observing (from a safe distance) the process of radicalisation in Yugoslavia in Bosnia. I recall many cases where among the first people killed were those seeking compromise, because they were easier targets and often regarded as traitors by the zealots of their own side.

    given that the main real threats to our peace, wellbeing and unity

    I am not inclined to give you that. I think that a severe threat to my liberal democracy is the fact that the MSM can point to a red six pointed star and claim that that means Trump is anti-Semitic. I was in a position to understand that it was a smear, a political dodge, and the reason that I was able to do that is because my understanding of present day Nazism has clarified within the last 3 years.

    places like the US and UK, where such parties have never fared well and likely never will.

    I agree completely. That’s not what I am concerned about. I am concerned about a handful of present day Nazis, manipulated by the MSM, contaminating what could possibly be a favorable political re-alignment. If we make the distinction between present day Nazis and legitimate nationalism clear enough we can defeat the efforts of those who intent to destroy legitimate political reform by smearing it with labels that don’t apply. If you say, “Oh don’t worry about those Holocaust deniers, we need free speech,” you are playing a losing hand.

    traitors by the zealots of their own side.

    Good point, I think that there is room for both of us to be somewhat correct; traitors to a side = heretic.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @iffen
    Perhaps. Nazi-hunting is clearly not a major concern of mine, since my main areas of political concern are foreign policy

    Do you think that you would be any good at it if you thought that it was important?

    Do you think that you would be any good at it if you thought that it was important?

    I suppose so, in that I think I’m pretty sensitive to the connotations and implications of what people write, but there’s a limit to how good anyone can be in such an inherently speculative endeavour.

    I can’t imagine ever thinking that, though, given that the main real threats to our peace, wellbeing and unity come from the other side – “humanitarian” interventionists, advocates of interventionist wars motivated by ulterior loyalties to ME regional rivals such as Israel, Saudi Arabia and Iran, and political correctness campaigners (whether antiracist, anti-homophobe or anti-anti-Semite) trying to get “hate speech” laws against free speech enacted ever more vigorously to suppress their political rivals. And these real threats cost lives and undermine liberty now, today, and not in some fantasy future where a new Nazi party has arisen to power in places like the US and UK, where such parties have never fared well and likely never will.

    If there ever is a Nazi surge in the US or UK it will be as a backlash against political correctness.

    People are in court and facing prison for speaking their minds, today, in the UK.

    I’m thinking that the heretics get it first and foremost. There’s always a chance to bring the wishy-washy moderates over to your side.

    I remember observing (from a safe distance) the process of radicalisation in Yugoslavia in Bosnia. I recall many cases where among the first people killed were those seeking compromise, because they were easier targets and often regarded as traitors by the zealots of their own side.

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    given that the main real threats to our peace, wellbeing and unity

    I am not inclined to give you that. I think that a severe threat to my liberal democracy is the fact that the MSM can point to a red six pointed star and claim that that means Trump is anti-Semitic. I was in a position to understand that it was a smear, a political dodge, and the reason that I was able to do that is because my understanding of present day Nazism has clarified within the last 3 years.

    places like the US and UK, where such parties have never fared well and likely never will.

    I agree completely. That's not what I am concerned about. I am concerned about a handful of present day Nazis, manipulated by the MSM, contaminating what could possibly be a favorable political re-alignment. If we make the distinction between present day Nazis and legitimate nationalism clear enough we can defeat the efforts of those who intent to destroy legitimate political reform by smearing it with labels that don't apply. If you say, "Oh don't worry about those Holocaust deniers, we need free speech," you are playing a losing hand.

    traitors by the zealots of their own side.


    Good point, I think that there is room for both of us to be somewhat correct; traitors to a side = heretic.
    , @Art
    The question is, will an American Hitler eventually come on the scene? The answer is, only if America catastrophically fails and goes into a depression. If we stay on the path we are on, that could easily happen.

    Jew bankers controlled Germany’s economy – just like in America today. They drove it into the ground – just as is happening today in America.

    Trump could stop the decline for a while. He is the best hope that the Jews have to keep themselves in power over America. If he somewhat revives America economically, that will keep Jew power in place a while longer.

    Peace --- Art
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @geokat62

    I think this issue is the primary one – all other ones are details. Politics, technology, racial integration, etc. aside, if the core unit of the family is irreparably broken – then I am afraid the writing is on the wall.
     
    Agree 100%, Talha. Given the crucial role of the family in vibrant societies, what are we to make of the Frankfurt School's deliberate efforts to destroy it:

    Critical Theory was essentially destructive criticism of the main elements of Western culture, including Christianity, capitalism, authority, the family, patriarchy, hierarchy, morality, tradition, sexual restraint, loyalty, patriotism, nationalism, heredity, ethnocentrism, convention and conservatism...

    The Authoritarian Personality, published in 1950, substantially influenced American psychologists and social scientists. The book was premised on one basic idea, that the presence in a society of Christianity, capitalism and the patriarchal-authoritarian family created a character prone to racial prejudice and German fascism. The Authoritarian Personality became a handbook for a national campaign against any kind of prejudice or discrimination on the theory that if these evils were not eradicated, another Holocaust might occur on the American continent. This campaign, in turn, provided a basis for Political Correctness.

    http://static.ow.ly/docs/Political%20Correctnes%20-%20A%20Short%20History%20of%20an%20Idealogy_9Nd.pdf
     
    Are we to sit idly by witnessing the destruction of the main elements of Western culture, including the family, so that fascism never reappears on Western soil?

    Do you think the price is worth it?

    Hey Geo,

    No, the price is not worth it especially when (I believe) the culprit lies elsewhere; not with Christianity itself but post-Modernity replacing Christianity as the ethos of Western culture and norms. Nietzsche, who himself didn’t marry, was conscious of the road Western Man was on, now that he had cast aside the path that religion had carved for him. The fruits of this destruction of the family are being discussed over at Mr. Dinh’s latest thread.

    Peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @geokat62

    ... post-Modernity replacing Christianity as the ethos of Western culture and norms
     
    Hey, Talha. So are you suggesting that cultural Marxism is not responsible for "replacing Christianity as the ethos of Western culture and norms," but post-Modernity is?

    Post-Modernity? I've heard of this term before, but I'm not very familiar with its origins. Who are the thinkers responsible for developing the theories that underpin this ideology, or does it even have an underlying ideology? If it does, is there a counterpart to the Frankfurt School, for example?
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @iffen
    difference between Nazis and Zionists

    Most Zionists will readily admit that they are Zionists.

    Most Nazis deny that they are Nazis.

    difference between Nazis and Zionists

    Most Zionists will readily admit that they are Zionists.

    Most Nazis deny that they are Nazis.

    Gee iffen,

    In 1940 there was a lot of Nazis – not in 1945.

    There are less Zionists today then yesterday. The stench grows.

    Peace — Art

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Art
    I think Nazism by any definition includes anti-Semitism, so no problem there.

    Gee iffen,

    What about the Zionist anti-Semitism in Israel - Palestinians are Semites. What is the actual intellectual difference between Nazis and Zionists? Aren't both big time bad ass tribalists?

    Let us be honest - the major case of anti-Semitism in todays world, is Israelis against Palestinians.

    What do you have to say? Aren't you the biggest anti-Semite on this site?

    Peace --- Art

    difference between Nazis and Zionists

    Most Zionists will readily admit that they are Zionists.

    Most Nazis deny that they are Nazis.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art

    difference between Nazis and Zionists

    Most Zionists will readily admit that they are Zionists.

    Most Nazis deny that they are Nazis.

     

    Gee iffen,

    In 1940 there was a lot of Nazis - not in 1945.

    There are less Zionists today then yesterday. The stench grows.

    Peace --- Art
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @iffen
    Mind you, my impression is that as that time approaches it’s the undecided who get targeted most violently, by both sides.

    I'm thinking that the heretics get it first and foremost. There's always a chance to bring the wishy-washy moderates over to your side.

    Steady on, mate! Thought we’d all agreed nobody ever gets persuaded of anything in these conversations :-)

    Sorry to give you a fright. If it lessens it any, I, of course know the difference, you just convinced me that I should make the distinction. It will be easier to make anti-Semitism stick without having to prove the Nazi part. I think Nazism by any definition includes anti-Semitism, so no problem there.

    I think Nazism by any definition includes anti-Semitism, so no problem there.

    Gee iffen,

    What about the Zionist anti-Semitism in Israel – Palestinians are Semites. What is the actual intellectual difference between Nazis and Zionists? Aren’t both big time bad ass tribalists?

    Let us be honest – the major case of anti-Semitism in todays world, is Israelis against Palestinians.

    What do you have to say? Aren’t you the biggest anti-Semite on this site?

    Peace — Art

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    difference between Nazis and Zionists

    Most Zionists will readily admit that they are Zionists.

    Most Nazis deny that they are Nazis.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @iffen
    Look!

    The NY Times is plotting out the Jew-nections these days.

    And people say our MSM is corrupt and does not report on the power of Jews.


    But Mr. Bolton remains under consideration for the job. And he enjoys a powerful ally in Sheldon Adelson, the casino magnate and Republican megadonor who favors the kind of hard-nosed posture that Mr. Bolton would bring.

    Mr. Adelson’s backing has gone an especially long way with Mr. Trump’s son-in-law, Jared Kushner, who is expected to take on an important but still undetermined role in the new administration.
    ...

    “I like John Bolton and hope he gets a senior position,” said William Kristol, the editor of the conservative Weekly Standard...

     

    The NY Times is plotting out the Jew-nections these days.

    And people say our MSM is corrupt and does not report on the power of Jews.

    But Mr. Bolton remains under consideration for the job. And he enjoys a powerful ally in Sheldon Adelson, the casino magnate and Republican megadonor who favors the kind of hard-nosed posture that Mr. Bolton would bring.

    Mr. Adelson’s backing has gone an especially long way with Mr. Trump’s son-in-law, Jared Kushner, who is expected to take on an important but still undetermined role in the new administration.

    “I like John Bolton and hope he gets a senior position,” said William Kristol, the editor of the conservative Weekly Standard

    Gee iffen – what Jew-nections?

    There is not one “Jew” word, not one “Israel” word, not even a “neocon” in that quote. How can someone be honest and not put those words in the article?

    Hmm!

    Peace — Art

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Look!

    The NY Times is plotting out the Jew-nections these days.

    And people say our MSM is corrupt and does not report on the power of Jews.

    But Mr. Bolton remains under consideration for the job. And he enjoys a powerful ally in Sheldon Adelson, the casino magnate and Republican megadonor who favors the kind of hard-nosed posture that Mr. Bolton would bring.

    Mr. Adelson’s backing has gone an especially long way with Mr. Trump’s son-in-law, Jared Kushner, who is expected to take on an important but still undetermined role in the new administration.

    “I like John Bolton and hope he gets a senior position,” said William Kristol, the editor of the conservative Weekly Standard…

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art
    The NY Times is plotting out the Jew-nections these days.

    And people say our MSM is corrupt and does not report on the power of Jews.


    But Mr. Bolton remains under consideration for the job. And he enjoys a powerful ally in Sheldon Adelson, the casino magnate and Republican megadonor who favors the kind of hard-nosed posture that Mr. Bolton would bring.

    Mr. Adelson’s backing has gone an especially long way with Mr. Trump’s son-in-law, Jared Kushner, who is expected to take on an important but still undetermined role in the new administration.

    “I like John Bolton and hope he gets a senior position,” said William Kristol, the editor of the conservative Weekly Standard
     

    Gee iffen – what Jew-nections?

    There is not one “Jew” word, not one “Israel” word, not even a “neocon” in that quote. How can someone be honest and not put those words in the article?

    Hmm!

    Peace --- Art

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Talha
    Hey iffen,

    I wish you and your peeps nothing but the best. I don't know if Missouri is your peeps, but they've produced amazing men like Sh. Yahya Rodhus (http://seekershub.org/home/teachers/yahya-rhodus) so I can't wait for more.

    I think this issue is the primary one - all other ones are details. Politics, technology, racial integration, etc. aside, if the core unit of the family is irreparably broken - then I am afraid the writing is on the wall. An engine can run slowly even on a couple of pistons failing (if I remember correctly) - once it's seized up, though...

    Peace.

    I think this issue is the primary one – all other ones are details. Politics, technology, racial integration, etc. aside, if the core unit of the family is irreparably broken – then I am afraid the writing is on the wall.

    Agree 100%, Talha. Given the crucial role of the family in vibrant societies, what are we to make of the Frankfurt School’s deliberate efforts to destroy it:

    Critical Theory was essentially destructive criticism of the main elements of Western culture, including Christianity, capitalism, authority, the family, patriarchy, hierarchy, morality, tradition, sexual restraint, loyalty, patriotism, nationalism, heredity, ethnocentrism, convention and conservatism…

    The Authoritarian Personality, published in 1950, substantially influenced American psychologists and social scientists. The book was premised on one basic idea, that the presence in a society of Christianity, capitalism and the patriarchal-authoritarian family created a character prone to racial prejudice and German fascism. The Authoritarian Personality became a handbook for a national campaign against any kind of prejudice or discrimination on the theory that if these evils were not eradicated, another Holocaust might occur on the American continent. This campaign, in turn, provided a basis for Political Correctness.

    http://static.ow.ly/docs/Political%20Correctnes%20-%20A%20Short%20History%20of%20an%20Idealogy_9Nd.pdf

    Are we to sit idly by witnessing the destruction of the main elements of Western culture, including the family, so that fascism never reappears on Western soil?

    Do you think the price is worth it?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey Geo,

    No, the price is not worth it especially when (I believe) the culprit lies elsewhere; not with Christianity itself but post-Modernity replacing Christianity as the ethos of Western culture and norms. Nietzsche, who himself didn't marry, was conscious of the road Western Man was on, now that he had cast aside the path that religion had carved for him. The fruits of this destruction of the family are being discussed over at Mr. Dinh's latest thread.

    Peace.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Randal

    How do you decide what to do when the shooting starts?
     
    Like most, presumably, I fervently hope it never comes to that!

    Mind you, my impression is that as that time approaches it's the undecided who get targeted most violently, by both sides.

    Okay, you have convinced me. In the future I am going to keep my Nazis and anti-Semites separate.
     
    Steady on, mate! Thought we'd all agreed nobody ever gets persuaded of anything in these conversations :-)

    Perhaps. Nazi-hunting is clearly not a major concern of mine, since my main areas of political concern are foreign policy

    Do you think that you would be any good at it if you thought that it was important?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Randal

    Do you think that you would be any good at it if you thought that it was important?
     
    I suppose so, in that I think I'm pretty sensitive to the connotations and implications of what people write, but there's a limit to how good anyone can be in such an inherently speculative endeavour.

    I can't imagine ever thinking that, though, given that the main real threats to our peace, wellbeing and unity come from the other side - "humanitarian" interventionists, advocates of interventionist wars motivated by ulterior loyalties to ME regional rivals such as Israel, Saudi Arabia and Iran, and political correctness campaigners (whether antiracist, anti-homophobe or anti-anti-Semite) trying to get "hate speech" laws against free speech enacted ever more vigorously to suppress their political rivals. And these real threats cost lives and undermine liberty now, today, and not in some fantasy future where a new Nazi party has arisen to power in places like the US and UK, where such parties have never fared well and likely never will.

    If there ever is a Nazi surge in the US or UK it will be as a backlash against political correctness.

    People are in court and facing prison for speaking their minds, today, in the UK.

    I’m thinking that the heretics get it first and foremost. There’s always a chance to bring the wishy-washy moderates over to your side.
     
    I remember observing (from a safe distance) the process of radicalisation in Yugoslavia in Bosnia. I recall many cases where among the first people killed were those seeking compromise, because they were easier targets and often regarded as traitors by the zealots of their own side.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Randal

    How do you decide what to do when the shooting starts?
     
    Like most, presumably, I fervently hope it never comes to that!

    Mind you, my impression is that as that time approaches it's the undecided who get targeted most violently, by both sides.

    Okay, you have convinced me. In the future I am going to keep my Nazis and anti-Semites separate.
     
    Steady on, mate! Thought we'd all agreed nobody ever gets persuaded of anything in these conversations :-)

    Mind you, my impression is that as that time approaches it’s the undecided who get targeted most violently, by both sides.

    I’m thinking that the heretics get it first and foremost. There’s always a chance to bring the wishy-washy moderates over to your side.

    Steady on, mate! Thought we’d all agreed nobody ever gets persuaded of anything in these conversations :-)

    Sorry to give you a fright. If it lessens it any, I, of course know the difference, you just convinced me that I should make the distinction. It will be easier to make anti-Semitism stick without having to prove the Nazi part. I think Nazism by any definition includes anti-Semitism, so no problem there.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art
    I think Nazism by any definition includes anti-Semitism, so no problem there.

    Gee iffen,

    What about the Zionist anti-Semitism in Israel - Palestinians are Semites. What is the actual intellectual difference between Nazis and Zionists? Aren't both big time bad ass tribalists?

    Let us be honest - the major case of anti-Semitism in todays world, is Israelis against Palestinians.

    What do you have to say? Aren't you the biggest anti-Semite on this site?

    Peace --- Art
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Talha
    Hey iffen,

    You cannot have unrestrained individuality in a marriage (it is the smallest 'group') - it won't work. You need to know how to step on your ego and compromise for the greater good. If a person can't get that straight with just one other person in life - screw all the other pie in the sky stuff, it's not going to happen. Marriage is a testing ground for you to become more human.

    Peace.

    Excellent observations Talha.

    I see difficulties in the scaling up from the family unit to larger groups. The responsibilities, expectations and rights within a family seem to be completely different from what we find in the larger group.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @iffen
    if the core unit of the family is irreparably broken

    My pea brain has been wrestling with the dilemma of not being able to maximize the individual without minimizing the group. Recently I am coming around to the idea that we need to shore up the group for a while and not worry so much about the individual. If that is true, and if the family is the cornerstone of the group, I can see that you are right on track.

    Hey iffen,

    You cannot have unrestrained individuality in a marriage (it is the smallest ‘group’) – it won’t work. You need to know how to step on your ego and compromise for the greater good. If a person can’t get that straight with just one other person in life – screw all the other pie in the sky stuff, it’s not going to happen. Marriage is a testing ground for you to become more human.

    Peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    Excellent observations Talha.

    I see difficulties in the scaling up from the family unit to larger groups. The responsibilities, expectations and rights within a family seem to be completely different from what we find in the larger group.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Talha
    Hey iffen,

    I wish you and your peeps nothing but the best. I don't know if Missouri is your peeps, but they've produced amazing men like Sh. Yahya Rodhus (http://seekershub.org/home/teachers/yahya-rhodus) so I can't wait for more.

    I think this issue is the primary one - all other ones are details. Politics, technology, racial integration, etc. aside, if the core unit of the family is irreparably broken - then I am afraid the writing is on the wall. An engine can run slowly even on a couple of pistons failing (if I remember correctly) - once it's seized up, though...

    Peace.

    if the core unit of the family is irreparably broken

    My pea brain has been wrestling with the dilemma of not being able to maximize the individual without minimizing the group. Recently I am coming around to the idea that we need to shore up the group for a while and not worry so much about the individual. If that is true, and if the family is the cornerstone of the group, I can see that you are right on track.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey iffen,

    You cannot have unrestrained individuality in a marriage (it is the smallest 'group') - it won't work. You need to know how to step on your ego and compromise for the greater good. If a person can't get that straight with just one other person in life - screw all the other pie in the sky stuff, it's not going to happen. Marriage is a testing ground for you to become more human.

    Peace.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @iffen
    I tend to think of people as being on the same or different sides according to particular issues, rather than being “with us or against us” overall.

    How do you decide what to do when the shooting starts?

    How do you decide what to do when the shooting starts?

    Like most, presumably, I fervently hope it never comes to that!

    Mind you, my impression is that as that time approaches it’s the undecided who get targeted most violently, by both sides.

    Okay, you have convinced me. In the future I am going to keep my Nazis and anti-Semites separate.

    Steady on, mate! Thought we’d all agreed nobody ever gets persuaded of anything in these conversations :-)

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    Mind you, my impression is that as that time approaches it’s the undecided who get targeted most violently, by both sides.

    I'm thinking that the heretics get it first and foremost. There's always a chance to bring the wishy-washy moderates over to your side.

    Steady on, mate! Thought we’d all agreed nobody ever gets persuaded of anything in these conversations :-)

    Sorry to give you a fright. If it lessens it any, I, of course know the difference, you just convinced me that I should make the distinction. It will be easier to make anti-Semitism stick without having to prove the Nazi part. I think Nazism by any definition includes anti-Semitism, so no problem there.

    , @iffen
    Perhaps. Nazi-hunting is clearly not a major concern of mine, since my main areas of political concern are foreign policy

    Do you think that you would be any good at it if you thought that it was important?
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Randal

    Interesting classification of me on your part as I can whole-heartedly subscribe to everything in this first paragraph of yours, with only some qualifications on the homosexual issue.
     
    I was confining the "sides" to the issue of pro- and anti-demonization of people who fail to approve sufficiently of jewish people, jewish issues and the jewish state, or as you would presumably prefer to describe it, the pro- and anti-anti-Semitism sides, since that issue seemed to be the main topic of this exchange.

    I tend to think of people as being on the same or different sides according to particular issues, rather than being "with us or against us" overall. Another reason I object to casting people into the outer darkness because they are "antisemitic" or "Nazi". Your position, of agreeing with me on many of the biggest issues whilst disagreeing on "anti-Semitism"-related issues in particular is in my experience not at all unusual.

    And my opposition to interventionist warfare and to globalist corporatism, for instance, often puts me on the same side on those issues as radical leftists with whom I would probably virulently disagree on many other issues.

    You didn’t make any attempt to answer this question.

     

    I assumed it was rhetorical, and responded to what I understood as the spirit of the question by saying I felt it was irrelevant and explaining why.

    To understand Nazism we have to look back to the supporting ideology and premises that led to the Final Solution. Only acknowledging people who advocate mass murder is head in the sand behavior.
     
    Any such attempts are going to be speculative and highly subjective, imo. You might appreciate the point better by considering the parallels with all the anti-racist nonsense about supposedly racist attitudes and beliefs that must be condemned and suppressed because they might somehow "lead to" KKK lynch-mobbing of blacks. Such as any opposition to mass immigration, for instance.

    We just had a Presidential election in which the Nazi question was a major, if not the major factor.
     
    Not that I noticed. A minor one, perhaps.

    determine for myself what is Nazi propaganda and what is legitimate political discourse
     
    I think I would reject the distinction you are trying to set up here, ab initio. All political discourse is "legitimate", imo, provided it does not descend into illegality by, for instance, directly advocating criminal violence. That's not to say all political positions are correct, obviously, or acceptable to all people, or even basically honest. But "illegitimate" goes a lot further than merely unacceptable, I think, and implies at least support for its active suppression and censorship in the public square, and at worst support for outright criminalisation.

    If what you intended by "illegitimate" was merely "unacceptable to you personally", then fine. That's obviously your prerogative.

    I tend to think of people as being on the same or different sides according to particular issues, rather than being “with us or against us” overall.

    How do you decide what to do when the shooting starts?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Randal

    How do you decide what to do when the shooting starts?
     
    Like most, presumably, I fervently hope it never comes to that!

    Mind you, my impression is that as that time approaches it's the undecided who get targeted most violently, by both sides.

    Okay, you have convinced me. In the future I am going to keep my Nazis and anti-Semites separate.
     
    Steady on, mate! Thought we'd all agreed nobody ever gets persuaded of anything in these conversations :-)
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Randal

    Why do you get a pass in using Judeophobe when each and every one of them go sideways when I use Nazi or anti-Semite?
     
    Anti-semite and Judeophobe arguably carry the same meaning, in practice. Nazi, as discussed, absolutely does not, and implies many unrelated political positions such as social and political authoritarianism, nationalism and even, as you have pointed out above, a predilection for mass murder.

    Unsurprisingly people object strongly to being wrongly categorised as Nazis merely for being anti-Semitic or Judeophobic, or even just "anti-Semitic".

    As for the other two terms, anti-Semitic carries a lot of McCarthyist/blacklisting baggage because of the way it has been used to censor and suppress dissent, whereas Judeophobe has not had the same widespread usage to acquire those connotations. The term Islamophobe, interestingly, seems to be going the same way as anti-Semitic.

    So Judeophobic is the least offensive of the terms under consideration. Of course, avoiding offence might well not be uppermost in your mind when considering using such terms.

    Anti-semite and Judeophobe arguably carry the same meaning, in practice. Nazi, as discussed, absolutely does not, and implies many unrelated political positions such as social and political authoritarianism, nationalism and even, as you have pointed out above, a predilection for mass murder.

    Okay, you have convinced me. In the future I am going to keep my Nazis and anti-Semites separate.

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  • @iffen
    They are more interested in getting out of the mess that Mr. Dinh’s last article talks about and just finding a good spouse.

    I wish you and your religion all the success possible dealing with this problem. If I thought that I could get a prayer through, I would even try that. The religion of my forebears is failing big time in dealing with this problem. Not only do we not get any help from the gub'ment, there are plenty of policies that exacerbate this problem. It is a part of the Fishtown end times for my peeps.

    Forgot…

    Fishtown

    Charles Murray reference!!!

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  • @Greasy William

    after studying for over a year with Rabbi Elie Weinstock from the Modern Orthodox Ramaz School
     
    Joke conversion. Ivanka is no Jew as far as I'm concerned.

    Judaism accepts converts, if we didn't we'd end up like the Samaritans, but it has to be a real conversion, not some bullshit MO McConversion.

    I also really dislike Ivanka so I'm glad to not count her as one of the Jewish people. Any of the other Trump children would be fine, too bad we didn't get one of them.

    Not one for ‘big-tent’ Judaism, eh Greasy?

    But, I thought you also stated (in our previous exchanges) you have certain un-Orthodox beliefs – so what’s up with that?

    I think you’re going to have to go Muzzie – c’mon, we got the strict monotheism, all the Biblical prophets, the (somewhat) kosher rules, and lots of Persian women – remember?

    Peace.

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  • @iffen
    They are more interested in getting out of the mess that Mr. Dinh’s last article talks about and just finding a good spouse.

    I wish you and your religion all the success possible dealing with this problem. If I thought that I could get a prayer through, I would even try that. The religion of my forebears is failing big time in dealing with this problem. Not only do we not get any help from the gub'ment, there are plenty of policies that exacerbate this problem. It is a part of the Fishtown end times for my peeps.

    Hey iffen,

    I wish you and your peeps nothing but the best. I don’t know if Missouri is your peeps, but they’ve produced amazing men like Sh. Yahya Rodhus (http://seekershub.org/home/teachers/yahya-rhodus) so I can’t wait for more.

    I think this issue is the primary one – all other ones are details. Politics, technology, racial integration, etc. aside, if the core unit of the family is irreparably broken – then I am afraid the writing is on the wall. An engine can run slowly even on a couple of pistons failing (if I remember correctly) – once it’s seized up, though…

    Peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    if the core unit of the family is irreparably broken

    My pea brain has been wrestling with the dilemma of not being able to maximize the individual without minimizing the group. Recently I am coming around to the idea that we need to shore up the group for a while and not worry so much about the individual. If that is true, and if the family is the cornerstone of the group, I can see that you are right on track.

    , @geokat62

    I think this issue is the primary one – all other ones are details. Politics, technology, racial integration, etc. aside, if the core unit of the family is irreparably broken – then I am afraid the writing is on the wall.
     
    Agree 100%, Talha. Given the crucial role of the family in vibrant societies, what are we to make of the Frankfurt School's deliberate efforts to destroy it:

    Critical Theory was essentially destructive criticism of the main elements of Western culture, including Christianity, capitalism, authority, the family, patriarchy, hierarchy, morality, tradition, sexual restraint, loyalty, patriotism, nationalism, heredity, ethnocentrism, convention and conservatism...

    The Authoritarian Personality, published in 1950, substantially influenced American psychologists and social scientists. The book was premised on one basic idea, that the presence in a society of Christianity, capitalism and the patriarchal-authoritarian family created a character prone to racial prejudice and German fascism. The Authoritarian Personality became a handbook for a national campaign against any kind of prejudice or discrimination on the theory that if these evils were not eradicated, another Holocaust might occur on the American continent. This campaign, in turn, provided a basis for Political Correctness.

    http://static.ow.ly/docs/Political%20Correctnes%20-%20A%20Short%20History%20of%20an%20Idealogy_9Nd.pdf
     
    Are we to sit idly by witnessing the destruction of the main elements of Western culture, including the family, so that fascism never reappears on Western soil?

    Do you think the price is worth it?
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @iffen
    all the Judeophobes here

    Why do you get a pass in using Judeophobe when each and every one of them go sideways when I use Nazi or anti-Semite? It must a personality fault of mine that rubs them the wrong way.

    Why do you get a pass in using Judeophobe when each and every one of them go sideways when I use Nazi or anti-Semite?

    Anti-semite and Judeophobe arguably carry the same meaning, in practice. Nazi, as discussed, absolutely does not, and implies many unrelated political positions such as social and political authoritarianism, nationalism and even, as you have pointed out above, a predilection for mass murder.

    Unsurprisingly people object strongly to being wrongly categorised as Nazis merely for being anti-Semitic or Judeophobic, or even just “anti-Semitic”.

    As for the other two terms, anti-Semitic carries a lot of McCarthyist/blacklisting baggage because of the way it has been used to censor and suppress dissent, whereas Judeophobe has not had the same widespread usage to acquire those connotations. The term Islamophobe, interestingly, seems to be going the same way as anti-Semitic.

    So Judeophobic is the least offensive of the terms under consideration. Of course, avoiding offence might well not be uppermost in your mind when considering using such terms.

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    Anti-semite and Judeophobe arguably carry the same meaning, in practice. Nazi, as discussed, absolutely does not, and implies many unrelated political positions such as social and political authoritarianism, nationalism and even, as you have pointed out above, a predilection for mass murder.

    Okay, you have convinced me. In the future I am going to keep my Nazis and anti-Semites separate.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @iffen

    my main areas of political concern are foreign policy and in particular opposing interventionist stupidity, supporting a revival of nationalism and opposing the nowadays predominant globalist corporatism and internationalism, and opposing the socially liberal (as opposed to politically liberal in the English rather than American sense of the word) dogmas that seek to normalise homosexual behaviour. And nowadays, also to fight back against the creeping attempts to criminalise dissent in these areas.
     
    your side

    Interesting classification of me on your part as I can whole-heartedly subscribe to everything in this first paragraph of yours, with only some qualifications on the homosexual issue.

    When you gave your description of the original Nazi party policies, did you intentionally leave out the part about getting rid of the people that didn’t fit the mold, or was that just an oversight?

    You didn’t make any attempt to answer this question.

    whose plans include a mass slaughter of people


    In that you think that unconscious dishonesty exist you should be alert to unconscious Nazism.

    I have only a limited knowledge of Hitler and his Nazism, but it is clear that he did not have the Final Solution in mind when he began his political career. He was virulently anti-Semitic, as were many others at that time. He envisioned pogroms, expulsion, denial of citizenship, etc., not mass extermination. To understand Nazism we have to look back to the supporting ideology and premises that led to the Final Solution. Only acknowledging people who advocate mass murder is head in the sand behavior.

    an early C20th German political party that has little or no relevance to modern day issues

    We just had a Presidential election in which the Nazi question was a major, if not the major factor.

    My cursory knowledge of European politics tell me that it is an essential question there.

    I have some understanding of your concern with the European hate speech laws and I share that concern. I am concerned about the accusations of Nazism in American politics. For me, that concern dictates trying to acquire the knowledge to be able to distinguish and determine for myself what is Nazi propaganda and what is legitimate political discourse.

    Interesting classification of me on your part as I can whole-heartedly subscribe to everything in this first paragraph of yours, with only some qualifications on the homosexual issue.

    I was confining the “sides” to the issue of pro- and anti-demonization of people who fail to approve sufficiently of jewish people, jewish issues and the jewish state, or as you would presumably prefer to describe it, the pro- and anti-anti-Semitism sides, since that issue seemed to be the main topic of this exchange.

    I tend to think of people as being on the same or different sides according to particular issues, rather than being “with us or against us” overall. Another reason I object to casting people into the outer darkness because they are “antisemitic” or “Nazi”. Your position, of agreeing with me on many of the biggest issues whilst disagreeing on “anti-Semitism”-related issues in particular is in my experience not at all unusual.

    And my opposition to interventionist warfare and to globalist corporatism, for instance, often puts me on the same side on those issues as radical leftists with whom I would probably virulently disagree on many other issues.

    You didn’t make any attempt to answer this question.

    I assumed it was rhetorical, and responded to what I understood as the spirit of the question by saying I felt it was irrelevant and explaining why.

    To understand Nazism we have to look back to the supporting ideology and premises that led to the Final Solution. Only acknowledging people who advocate mass murder is head in the sand behavior.

    Any such attempts are going to be speculative and highly subjective, imo. You might appreciate the point better by considering the parallels with all the anti-racist nonsense about supposedly racist attitudes and beliefs that must be condemned and suppressed because they might somehow “lead to” KKK lynch-mobbing of blacks. Such as any opposition to mass immigration, for instance.

    We just had a Presidential election in which the Nazi question was a major, if not the major factor.

    Not that I noticed. A minor one, perhaps.

    determine for myself what is Nazi propaganda and what is legitimate political discourse

    I think I would reject the distinction you are trying to set up here, ab initio. All political discourse is “legitimate”, imo, provided it does not descend into illegality by, for instance, directly advocating criminal violence. That’s not to say all political positions are correct, obviously, or acceptable to all people, or even basically honest. But “illegitimate” goes a lot further than merely unacceptable, I think, and implies at least support for its active suppression and censorship in the public square, and at worst support for outright criminalisation.

    If what you intended by “illegitimate” was merely “unacceptable to you personally”, then fine. That’s obviously your prerogative.

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    • Replies: @iffen
    I tend to think of people as being on the same or different sides according to particular issues, rather than being “with us or against us” overall.

    How do you decide what to do when the shooting starts?
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  • @Talha
    Hey iffen,

    LOL! I think I'm smart enough not to become a pariah in my community and not get a beat down from my teachers! And I honestly don't know which White Muslims would join. Other than the ethnic folks like Albanians and Bosnians (or White couples that converted together) - I don't know of many Whites that convert (goes for both men and women) and try to stick to marrying Whites. They are more interested in getting out of the mess that Mr. Dinh's last article talks about and just finding a good spouse. Ustadh Numan Khan mentioned in a lecture that he had a friend who converted who was a former neo-Nazi; that brother ended up marrying a Black sister!!!

    Peace.

    They are more interested in getting out of the mess that Mr. Dinh’s last article talks about and just finding a good spouse.

    I wish you and your religion all the success possible dealing with this problem. If I thought that I could get a prayer through, I would even try that. The religion of my forebears is failing big time in dealing with this problem. Not only do we not get any help from the gub’ment, there are plenty of policies that exacerbate this problem. It is a part of the Fishtown end times for my peeps.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey iffen,

    I wish you and your peeps nothing but the best. I don't know if Missouri is your peeps, but they've produced amazing men like Sh. Yahya Rodhus (http://seekershub.org/home/teachers/yahya-rhodus) so I can't wait for more.

    I think this issue is the primary one - all other ones are details. Politics, technology, racial integration, etc. aside, if the core unit of the family is irreparably broken - then I am afraid the writing is on the wall. An engine can run slowly even on a couple of pistons failing (if I remember correctly) - once it's seized up, though...

    Peace.
    , @Talha
    Forgot...

    Fishtown
     
    Charles Murray reference!!!
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Sam Shama
    [Joke conversion. Ivanka is no Jew as far as I’m concerned.]

    That is your extreme minority opinion, possibly the opinion of one, since all the Haredim I know consider her Jewish. She converted under Orthodox rules, observes the Shabbat, keeps a kosher home and is, in fact, more knowledgeable than many of the Torah. As far as I know Kushner is not a Cohen so marrying a giyoret is just fine.

    Most important of all, she has derech eretz.

    That is your extreme minority opinion, possibly the opinion of one, since all the Haredim I know consider her Jewish.

    Delineation of in-group/out-group; I like it, I love it, I want some more of it.

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  • @iffen

    Joke conversion. Ivanka is no Jew as far as I’m concerned.

    Complicated indeed*.

     


    Are Muslim Albanians and Bosnians considered White European?

    I mentioned the religion problem that American WNs have. I assume that any Muslim of any race would be rejected. As to Europe, I remember recent civil wars in the Balkans where Muslims were on one side with "whites" on the other.

    You are smart enough to give this a try. Start yourself a WN, Muslim only group, and see how much success you have. Give your card to NOI and tell them to keep sending their color rejects.

    Hey iffen,

    LOL! I think I’m smart enough not to become a pariah in my community and not get a beat down from my teachers! And I honestly don’t know which White Muslims would join. Other than the ethnic folks like Albanians and Bosnians (or White couples that converted together) – I don’t know of many Whites that convert (goes for both men and women) and try to stick to marrying Whites. They are more interested in getting out of the mess that Mr. Dinh’s last article talks about and just finding a good spouse. Ustadh Numan Khan mentioned in a lecture that he had a friend who converted who was a former neo-Nazi; that brother ended up marrying a Black sister!!!

    Peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    They are more interested in getting out of the mess that Mr. Dinh’s last article talks about and just finding a good spouse.

    I wish you and your religion all the success possible dealing with this problem. If I thought that I could get a prayer through, I would even try that. The religion of my forebears is failing big time in dealing with this problem. Not only do we not get any help from the gub'ment, there are plenty of policies that exacerbate this problem. It is a part of the Fishtown end times for my peeps.

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @iffen
    all the Judeophobes here

    Why do you get a pass in using Judeophobe when each and every one of them go sideways when I use Nazi or anti-Semite? It must a personality fault of mine that rubs them the wrong way.

    [you get a pass in using Judeophobe when each and every one of them go sideways ]

    It’s the benefit Greasy gets; extremities are not within the range of rational dispute.

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  • @Anon
    I mean this only as the mildest of criticisms, but, in my opinion, you do too much of your estimation based on "small snippets". I recommended Belloc as an example of the attitudes towards the Jews which existed on the pre-Nazi (and anti-Nazi) old Right. I'd say if you think weakening the financial industry is a pipe dream, you may be right, but it doesn't matter. It should be attempted, not principally to reduce Jewish influence, but as a good in its own right, and a necessary good for any kind of nationalist movement, which will otherwise be strangled in its cradle.

    You have either not read my last (full) paragraph very carefully or are positing something you have not fully explained; anyway, the point is that an American nationalism which does not distinguish the American from the Canadian is no kind of nationalism at all. If you want to restrict the term race to the silly distinctions of nose-width and skin-color, then a non-racist nationalism is certainly not something to which I object. I did not say that "mainstream blacks", whoever they are, are dysfunctional; I said, or anyway ought to have said, that a dysfunctional culture exists in the main stream of the black cultural continuum. A glance at the illegitimacy rates should bear me out here.

    I still recommend you read Belloc. If you want to burn his books afterwards and dance on the flames, that's fine with me. Many do so desire, for various reasons. And, incidentally, I'm sure H.G. Wells was among them!

    I appreciate all criticism and opinion upon my “estimations,” and trust that you don’t mind if I reject most of your recommendations.

    At this point I don’t need a further grounding in historical anti-Semitism. Modern day anti-Semitism plays out pretty much the same way with the added dimension of Israel, as you pointed out.

    I agree that our nation would benefit from a curbing of the power of the financial elites.

    I don’t understand your points on race or nationalism.

    American nationalism, proposition nationalism, not limited by race, religion, hatreds, etc., joined together by citizenship and belief in the American Dream. Canadians accepted after naturalization and an apology for failure to join the original revolution.

    Race means white, black or yellow with a scattering of others like American Indians, Hawaiians, etc.

    Fishtowns are real for black Americans. They are coming for white Americans, just like white Americans are “catching up” in the illegitimacy rate contest.

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  • @Greasy William

    after studying for over a year with Rabbi Elie Weinstock from the Modern Orthodox Ramaz School
     
    Joke conversion. Ivanka is no Jew as far as I'm concerned.

    Judaism accepts converts, if we didn't we'd end up like the Samaritans, but it has to be a real conversion, not some bullshit MO McConversion.

    I also really dislike Ivanka so I'm glad to not count her as one of the Jewish people. Any of the other Trump children would be fine, too bad we didn't get one of them.

    [Joke conversion. Ivanka is no Jew as far as I’m concerned.]

    That is your extreme minority opinion, possibly the opinion of one, since all the Haredim I know consider her Jewish. She converted under Orthodox rules, observes the Shabbat, keeps a kosher home and is, in fact, more knowledgeable than many of the Torah. As far as I know Kushner is not a Cohen so marrying a giyoret is just fine.

    Most important of all, she has derech eretz.

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    That is your extreme minority opinion, possibly the opinion of one, since all the Haredim I know consider her Jewish.

    Delineation of in-group/out-group; I like it, I love it, I want some more of it.

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Greasy William

    If, after Putin, there be a referendum Russians would most likely vote against SSM. How about that? Will the haters say it’s not democracy again?
     
    Yes.


    It does not make sense. Why don’t they, then, hate their friends and allies like Poland. Lithuania (SSM is forbidden by their constitutions), or Saudia, Qatar, etc. (where LGBT are jailed or killed)?
     
    You still don't get it. It is very hard for somebody who is not from the Anglosphere to understand our left. The other Americans here will back me up on this.

    1. Poland and Lithuania are part of the EU, so they get a pass. 2. Saudi Arabia and Qatar are Islamic, and the left LOVE Muslims. The left hates Christianity but they don't hate religion in general. They generally like Buddhism and Hinduism, and even Judaism. But they really love Islam and Muslims.

    Don't get me wrong, there is massive Islamophobia in the US, but it doesn't come from the left. The left is even more pro Islam than pro gay, and that's saying a lot.

    Russophobia/Putinophobia is as big as it is because it is a rare issue where the mainstream right, the left and the political class all agree, albeit for different reasons. The mainstream right is anti Russia because of the Cold War and Russia's support for Iran, Venezuela and Cuba. The left hates Russia because of Pussy Riot, humiliating Obama and Merkel in the Ukraine, Snowden, supporting anti immigrant politicians like Le Pen and Wilders, jailing/killing pro Western Russian politicians, the gay stuff and especially for Trump. The political class hates Russia simply because it is a rival to US power in Europe and the Middle East. Put all three together, and you get a political consensus for Russophobia.

    At the end of the day, however, Russophobia or even Putinophobia is a minority position in the US; or else Trump wouldn't have been elected. And a huge chunk of the people who voted for Hillary are blacks and hispanics, who don't give a rat's ass about Russia and probably couldn't even find it on a map.

    Before Pussy Riot/Ukraine/Snowden/Gays/Trump there was even a lot of sympathy in the US media for victims of Chechen terrorism, especially after the Beslan school thing. As late as the 2012 election, Obama was mocking Mitt Romney's Russophobia.


    InB4 all the Judeophobes here say that American Russophobia actually just comes from the Jews.

    all the Judeophobes here

    Why do you get a pass in using Judeophobe when each and every one of them go sideways when I use Nazi or anti-Semite? It must a personality fault of mine that rubs them the wrong way.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sam Shama
    [you get a pass in using Judeophobe when each and every one of them go sideways ]

    It's the benefit Greasy gets; extremities are not within the range of rational dispute.
    , @Randal

    Why do you get a pass in using Judeophobe when each and every one of them go sideways when I use Nazi or anti-Semite?
     
    Anti-semite and Judeophobe arguably carry the same meaning, in practice. Nazi, as discussed, absolutely does not, and implies many unrelated political positions such as social and political authoritarianism, nationalism and even, as you have pointed out above, a predilection for mass murder.

    Unsurprisingly people object strongly to being wrongly categorised as Nazis merely for being anti-Semitic or Judeophobic, or even just "anti-Semitic".

    As for the other two terms, anti-Semitic carries a lot of McCarthyist/blacklisting baggage because of the way it has been used to censor and suppress dissent, whereas Judeophobe has not had the same widespread usage to acquire those connotations. The term Islamophobe, interestingly, seems to be going the same way as anti-Semitic.

    So Judeophobic is the least offensive of the terms under consideration. Of course, avoiding offence might well not be uppermost in your mind when considering using such terms.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Talha
    Hey iffen,

    Do they only accept Christians? Protestants?
     
    Further down the rabbit hole:
    "Before her wedding, in July 2009, after studying for over a year with Rabbi Elie Weinstock from the Modern Orthodox Ramaz School, she converted to Orthodox Judaism and took the Hebrew name 'Yael."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivanka_Trump

    Did Trump's daughter get her credentials revoked? Are Muslim Albanians and Bosnians considered White European?

    Complicated indeed*.

    Peace.

    *Note: A joke I was told once goes like this...
    In Ireland a man is walking home from a pub and a guy comes up behind him and sticks a gun to his back and says - "Are you Catholic or Protestant?"
    The man, not wanting to get it wrong, thinks quickly and responds - "I'm Jewish!"
    The gunman answers - "Well now - aren't I the luckiest Palestinian in the world!"

    “Are you Catholic or Protestant?”

    How much and what pieces of information do people in Northern Ireland need to know in order to decide which side a person is on?

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Talha
    Hey iffen,

    Do they only accept Christians? Protestants?
     
    Further down the rabbit hole:
    "Before her wedding, in July 2009, after studying for over a year with Rabbi Elie Weinstock from the Modern Orthodox Ramaz School, she converted to Orthodox Judaism and took the Hebrew name 'Yael."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivanka_Trump

    Did Trump's daughter get her credentials revoked? Are Muslim Albanians and Bosnians considered White European?

    Complicated indeed*.

    Peace.

    *Note: A joke I was told once goes like this...
    In Ireland a man is walking home from a pub and a guy comes up behind him and sticks a gun to his back and says - "Are you Catholic or Protestant?"
    The man, not wanting to get it wrong, thinks quickly and responds - "I'm Jewish!"
    The gunman answers - "Well now - aren't I the luckiest Palestinian in the world!"

    Joke conversion. Ivanka is no Jew as far as I’m concerned.

    Complicated indeed*.


    Are Muslim Albanians and Bosnians considered White European?

    I mentioned the religion problem that American WNs have. I assume that any Muslim of any race would be rejected. As to Europe, I remember recent civil wars in the Balkans where Muslims were on one side with “whites” on the other.

    You are smart enough to give this a try. Start yourself a WN, Muslim only group, and see how much success you have. Give your card to NOI and tell them to keep sending their color rejects.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey iffen,

    LOL! I think I'm smart enough not to become a pariah in my community and not get a beat down from my teachers! And I honestly don't know which White Muslims would join. Other than the ethnic folks like Albanians and Bosnians (or White couples that converted together) - I don't know of many Whites that convert (goes for both men and women) and try to stick to marrying Whites. They are more interested in getting out of the mess that Mr. Dinh's last article talks about and just finding a good spouse. Ustadh Numan Khan mentioned in a lecture that he had a friend who converted who was a former neo-Nazi; that brother ended up marrying a Black sister!!!

    Peace.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Talha
    Hey iffen,

    Do they only accept Christians? Protestants?
     
    Further down the rabbit hole:
    "Before her wedding, in July 2009, after studying for over a year with Rabbi Elie Weinstock from the Modern Orthodox Ramaz School, she converted to Orthodox Judaism and took the Hebrew name 'Yael."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivanka_Trump

    Did Trump's daughter get her credentials revoked? Are Muslim Albanians and Bosnians considered White European?

    Complicated indeed*.

    Peace.

    *Note: A joke I was told once goes like this...
    In Ireland a man is walking home from a pub and a guy comes up behind him and sticks a gun to his back and says - "Are you Catholic or Protestant?"
    The man, not wanting to get it wrong, thinks quickly and responds - "I'm Jewish!"
    The gunman answers - "Well now - aren't I the luckiest Palestinian in the world!"

    after studying for over a year with Rabbi Elie Weinstock from the Modern Orthodox Ramaz School

    Joke conversion. Ivanka is no Jew as far as I’m concerned.

    Judaism accepts converts, if we didn’t we’d end up like the Samaritans, but it has to be a real conversion, not some bullshit MO McConversion.

    I also really dislike Ivanka so I’m glad to not count her as one of the Jewish people. Any of the other Trump children would be fine, too bad we didn’t get one of them.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sam Shama
    [Joke conversion. Ivanka is no Jew as far as I’m concerned.]

    That is your extreme minority opinion, possibly the opinion of one, since all the Haredim I know consider her Jewish. She converted under Orthodox rules, observes the Shabbat, keeps a kosher home and is, in fact, more knowledgeable than many of the Torah. As far as I know Kushner is not a Cohen so marrying a giyoret is just fine.

    Most important of all, she has derech eretz.

    , @Talha
    Not one for 'big-tent' Judaism, eh Greasy?

    But, I thought you also stated (in our previous exchanges) you have certain un-Orthodox beliefs - so what's up with that?

    I think you're going to have to go Muzzie - c'mon, we got the strict monotheism, all the Biblical prophets, the (somewhat) kosher rules, and lots of Persian women - remember?

    Peace.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Greasy William

    If, after Putin, there be a referendum Russians would most likely vote against SSM. How about that? Will the haters say it’s not democracy again?
     
    Yes.


    It does not make sense. Why don’t they, then, hate their friends and allies like Poland. Lithuania (SSM is forbidden by their constitutions), or Saudia, Qatar, etc. (where LGBT are jailed or killed)?
     
    You still don't get it. It is very hard for somebody who is not from the Anglosphere to understand our left. The other Americans here will back me up on this.

    1. Poland and Lithuania are part of the EU, so they get a pass. 2. Saudi Arabia and Qatar are Islamic, and the left LOVE Muslims. The left hates Christianity but they don't hate religion in general. They generally like Buddhism and Hinduism, and even Judaism. But they really love Islam and Muslims.

    Don't get me wrong, there is massive Islamophobia in the US, but it doesn't come from the left. The left is even more pro Islam than pro gay, and that's saying a lot.

    Russophobia/Putinophobia is as big as it is because it is a rare issue where the mainstream right, the left and the political class all agree, albeit for different reasons. The mainstream right is anti Russia because of the Cold War and Russia's support for Iran, Venezuela and Cuba. The left hates Russia because of Pussy Riot, humiliating Obama and Merkel in the Ukraine, Snowden, supporting anti immigrant politicians like Le Pen and Wilders, jailing/killing pro Western Russian politicians, the gay stuff and especially for Trump. The political class hates Russia simply because it is a rival to US power in Europe and the Middle East. Put all three together, and you get a political consensus for Russophobia.

    At the end of the day, however, Russophobia or even Putinophobia is a minority position in the US; or else Trump wouldn't have been elected. And a huge chunk of the people who voted for Hillary are blacks and hispanics, who don't give a rat's ass about Russia and probably couldn't even find it on a map.

    Before Pussy Riot/Ukraine/Snowden/Gays/Trump there was even a lot of sympathy in the US media for victims of Chechen terrorism, especially after the Beslan school thing. As late as the 2012 election, Obama was mocking Mitt Romney's Russophobia.


    InB4 all the Judeophobes here say that American Russophobia actually just comes from the Jews.

    Yes, I must agree most Americans, let’s call them the electorate, do not give a D about Russia and a great many cannot locate it on the map. At the same time you agree that all the political currents – the left, the right and the up there – are unanimous in their hate. And it would be nice to know that the hate were limited only to that 5% of political active people. But those groups have the power to influence the electorate. In the end we got the general American public having if not hate but at least anti-Russian sentiments. Which, of course, may or may not result in hateful actions and rather remains being only verbal disapproval at worst. This site is really non-mainstream, and I never felt any hostility, even the contrary, my moderate anti-Putin stance (seen by some as anti-Russian, though in fact I am but strongly pro-Russian) faced some opposition here. But in other sources and other places I saw a lot of hostility that I dare not to participate in a discussion there lest I will be smeared as a Russian stooge at the very first, even slightly pro-Russian sentence I’ll utter. All in all it’s only the Internet and I agree in real life I would most unlikely face any discrimination, in spite of verbal hostility in the media, but overall today it is difficult to be actually discriminated on any ground on the first place, and people simply hide their actual feelings and do not say things to one’s face.

    All being said my actual point was if it be even possible to imagine that somebody might call a media as peddlers of Israeli/Jewish propaganda as something very bad, how many seconds will pass before they will be cursed anti-Semites, Nazis, and the worst persons in the world. But with Russia it is very easy, they just name something Russian propaganda or somebody a Russian stooge and they could get with it and be winners, and nobody would ever say that that very dirty trick of labeling somebody Russian as a sign of evilness is an obvious and open form of ethnic hate like anti-Semitism. And people do not see a problem in THAT. They were rather irritated that they had been listed as propagandists and did not notice what sort of propagandists exactly. While for me that is something to notice.

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    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Hey iffen,

    Do they only accept Christians? Protestants?

    Further down the rabbit hole:
    “Before her wedding, in July 2009, after studying for over a year with Rabbi Elie Weinstock from the Modern Orthodox Ramaz School, she converted to Orthodox Judaism and took the Hebrew name ‘Yael.”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivanka_Trump

    Did Trump’s daughter get her credentials revoked? Are Muslim Albanians and Bosnians considered White European?

    Complicated indeed*.

    Peace.

    *Note: A joke I was told once goes like this…
    In Ireland a man is walking home from a pub and a guy comes up behind him and sticks a gun to his back and says – “Are you Catholic or Protestant?”
    The man, not wanting to get it wrong, thinks quickly and responds – “I’m Jewish!”
    The gunman answers – “Well now – aren’t I the luckiest Palestinian in the world!”

    Read More
    • Replies: @Greasy William

    after studying for over a year with Rabbi Elie Weinstock from the Modern Orthodox Ramaz School
     
    Joke conversion. Ivanka is no Jew as far as I'm concerned.

    Judaism accepts converts, if we didn't we'd end up like the Samaritans, but it has to be a real conversion, not some bullshit MO McConversion.

    I also really dislike Ivanka so I'm glad to not count her as one of the Jewish people. Any of the other Trump children would be fine, too bad we didn't get one of them.
    , @iffen

    Joke conversion. Ivanka is no Jew as far as I’m concerned.

    Complicated indeed*.

     


    Are Muslim Albanians and Bosnians considered White European?

    I mentioned the religion problem that American WNs have. I assume that any Muslim of any race would be rejected. As to Europe, I remember recent civil wars in the Balkans where Muslims were on one side with "whites" on the other.

    You are smart enough to give this a try. Start yourself a WN, Muslim only group, and see how much success you have. Give your card to NOI and tell them to keep sending their color rejects.

    , @iffen
    “Are you Catholic or Protestant?”

    How much and what pieces of information do people in Northern Ireland need to know in order to decide which side a person is on?
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Talha
    Hey iffen,

    as to whether Jews are to be considered white
     
    Another possible side-effect of the current situation with Israel being part of the conversation since so many Jewish communities have aggregated there.

    Why are Jews to be taken as a monolith? Why can't Polish Jews be considered White and Ethiopian and Yemeni and Bukharan Jews not? The reason I say this is because, in the talk, when asked by someone about genetics testing to establish who is White or not, Mr. Spencer replied that a race could simply be determined by phenotype (again more incoherency - but, whatever, it's not my religion).

    Peace.

    Why are Jews to be taken as a monolith?

    It would be difficult to make anti-Semitism work if you didn’t.

    We accept Jews as members, but not the darker ones? :)

    In addition to the “who is white” problem, they have to figure out something on religion.

    Do they only accept Christians? Protestants?

    When I was a kid, the WN/KKK types in my neck of the woods were also decidedly anti-Catholic.

    Identity politics can get complicated.

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  • @iffen
    The commenter meant in the mafia sense.

    something is really going wrong if they have to go on a ‘denazification program’

    Yes, you must be aware that if you are going to have a "white" political movement you have to decide whether to allow anti-Semites to be members. It is a complement to the question that plays out in softer forums as to whether Jews are to be considered white.

    Hey iffen,

    as to whether Jews are to be considered white

    Another possible side-effect of the current situation with Israel being part of the conversation since so many Jewish communities have aggregated there.

    Why are Jews to be taken as a monolith? Why can’t Polish Jews be considered White and Ethiopian and Yemeni and Bukharan Jews not? The reason I say this is because, in the talk, when asked by someone about genetics testing to establish who is White or not, Mr. Spencer replied that a race could simply be determined by phenotype (again more incoherency – but, whatever, it’s not my religion).

    Peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    Why are Jews to be taken as a monolith?

    It would be difficult to make anti-Semitism work if you didn't.

    We accept Jews as members, but not the darker ones? :)

    In addition to the "who is white" problem, they have to figure out something on religion.

    Do they only accept Christians? Protestants?

    When I was a kid, the WN/KKK types in my neck of the woods were also decidedly anti-Catholic.

    Identity politics can get complicated.

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Talha
    Hey iffen,

    I agree with JW's assessment; Spencer came across like a frat boy (especially when he was insulting random people for their weight) - but nobody really had a good argument against him. Which really shows the lack of coherence on the other side. Of course, his cheering squad seemed to be the equivalent of his 'frat buddies' - so you may be right about it being an advantage. He really reminds me of Anjem Chaudry the more I think about it; good debater, comes across as knowledgeable, people challenging him don't have enough grounding to point out his incoherence.

    And something is really going wrong if they have to go on a 'denazification program'.


    JW would be taken care of
     
    Hmmm - that could go a couple of ways; as when your mom says "Don't worry, I'll take care of you." versus when the mafia says it.

    My reading of history (with Muslims anyway) shows that meritocracy is the best policy in a multi-ethnic milieu (and removal of barriers of participation is a laudable goal - which includes removing quotas keeping capable Whites out or promoting token minorities). I won't go over why the Arab-supremacist Umayyad Caliphate was so short lived because you likely know (from reading Kennedy) that the mawali revolts against them was because of their nepotism and non-inclusion. A more poignant (and possibly relevant example - since it deals with [White] Circassians) is that of the difference between the Bahri and Burji Mamluks of Egypt:
    "There is universal agreement among historians that the Mamluk state reached its height under the Turkish sultans and then fell into a prolonged phase of decline under the Circassians...But the historians of the era date the beginning of the dynasty’s decline from the accession of the first Circassian sultan (Barquq) in 1382, claiming that thereafter, advancement in the state and the army was dependent on race (i.e., Circassian descent) rather than on proved skill in the art of war, which had served as the chief criterion for promotion during the Turkish period."
    https://www.britannica.com/topic/Mamluk


    It might help him get elected President
     
    All kidding aside - a man this comfortable at publicly declaring his vision at playing god should not be allowed anywhere near the levers of power*.

    Peace.

    *I'd actually love to see a test mandated for any people running for Congress or higher that they must submit themselves to a screening to see where they fall on the sociopath/psychopath spectrum and have the result publicly known. Of course, if they are really good, they may be able to fool test.

    The commenter meant in the mafia sense.

    something is really going wrong if they have to go on a ‘denazification program’

    Yes, you must be aware that if you are going to have a “white” political movement you have to decide whether to allow anti-Semites to be members. It is a complement to the question that plays out in softer forums as to whether Jews are to be considered white.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey iffen,

    as to whether Jews are to be considered white
     
    Another possible side-effect of the current situation with Israel being part of the conversation since so many Jewish communities have aggregated there.

    Why are Jews to be taken as a monolith? Why can't Polish Jews be considered White and Ethiopian and Yemeni and Bukharan Jews not? The reason I say this is because, in the talk, when asked by someone about genetics testing to establish who is White or not, Mr. Spencer replied that a race could simply be determined by phenotype (again more incoherency - but, whatever, it's not my religion).

    Peace.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @iffen
    that nationalist movements, especially in Europe but to some extent here too, generally and traditionally have an antisemitist

    I assume that you are correct about Europe. In the US, many of the “populist” movements have had an anti-Semitic component.

    disproportionately Jewish, has an inordinate amount of influence in the modern West.

    Disproportionate numbers and influence of American Jews in several fields are obvious points of departure for anti-Semitism.

    I hope you don’t consider me irredeemable if I recommend Belloc’s The Jews

    I do, and just based upon this small snippet:

    Chapter 1
    The Thesis of this Book
    The Jews are an alien body within the society… the solution of that problem is urgently necessary.
    … An alien body in any organism is disposed of in one of two ways: elimination and segregation.

     

    I think the most important thing is to weaken the finance industry

    pipe dream

    a nationalist movement will have some idea of race


    Not an American nationalism.

    The specific problem in the US is the dysfunctional culture which seems to be mainstream among blacks.


    Mainstream blacks are not dysfunctional. They have a larger segment of their people that are dysfunctional as opposed to whites and they are geographical concentrated more than the dysfunctional fraction in the white race.

    I mean this only as the mildest of criticisms, but, in my opinion, you do too much of your estimation based on “small snippets”. I recommended Belloc as an example of the attitudes towards the Jews which existed on the pre-Nazi (and anti-Nazi) old Right. I’d say if you think weakening the financial industry is a pipe dream, you may be right, but it doesn’t matter. It should be attempted, not principally to reduce Jewish influence, but as a good in its own right, and a necessary good for any kind of nationalist movement, which will otherwise be strangled in its cradle.

    You have either not read my last (full) paragraph very carefully or are positing something you have not fully explained; anyway, the point is that an American nationalism which does not distinguish the American from the Canadian is no kind of nationalism at all. If you want to restrict the term race to the silly distinctions of nose-width and skin-color, then a non-racist nationalism is certainly not something to which I object. I did not say that “mainstream blacks”, whoever they are, are dysfunctional; I said, or anyway ought to have said, that a dysfunctional culture exists in the main stream of the black cultural continuum. A glance at the illegitimacy rates should bear me out here.

    I still recommend you read Belloc. If you want to burn his books afterwards and dance on the flames, that’s fine with me. Many do so desire, for various reasons. And, incidentally, I’m sure H.G. Wells was among them!

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    • Replies: @iffen
    I appreciate all criticism and opinion upon my “estimations,” and trust that you don’t mind if I reject most of your recommendations.

    At this point I don’t need a further grounding in historical anti-Semitism. Modern day anti-Semitism plays out pretty much the same way with the added dimension of Israel, as you pointed out.

    I agree that our nation would benefit from a curbing of the power of the financial elites.

    I don’t understand your points on race or nationalism.

    American nationalism, proposition nationalism, not limited by race, religion, hatreds, etc., joined together by citizenship and belief in the American Dream. Canadians accepted after naturalization and an apology for failure to join the original revolution.

    Race means white, black or yellow with a scattering of others like American Indians, Hawaiians, etc.

    Fishtowns are real for black Americans. They are coming for white Americans, just like white Americans are “catching up” in the illegitimacy rate contest.

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Anon
    I see. I think I "get where you're coming from" now, as the phrase goes.

    One problem I see is that nationalist movements, especially in Europe but to some extent here too, generally and traditionally have an antisemitist tinge to them, Mme. le Pen being anomalous in this regard. I don't know much about her father (he may be a raging Hitler supporter for all I know), but a mild (mild as in not advocating mass murder) strain of antisemitism has existed in the French Right as long as there has been a French Right, and especially since the turn of the century and the Dreyfus case. I think the traditional antisemitism of the Right is due first to the international position of the more prominent Jews, and second to the fact that the financial industry, traditionally a Jewish occupation and still disproportionately Jewish, has an inordinate amount of influence in the modern West. Of course nowadays the perception of divided loyalty, always the main charge, is strengthened by the obvious and undeniable Israeli influence at the top level of American politics.

    I hope you don't consider me irredeemable if I recommend Belloc's The Jews for a look at the traditional view of the topic. Belloc being very much anti-Nazi, by the way. What is to be done now? I think the most important thing is to weaken the finance industry and its power to affect politics; this done, most of the resentment against the Jews will die down. Unfortunately the "divided loyalties" question will still exist, despite the many Jews who are wholly patriotic for the country in which they live. It's less of a problem in the US than in Europe, though, because of the way our country was populated, and since it isn't a public question now it's unlikely to become one.

    As for racism, I think it inevitable that a nationalist movement will have some idea of race, or more precisely of a nation, which used to mean much the same thing. This can be had without silliness about Mongoloids or Negroids or Caucasoids, and, I think, generally is, the handful of WNs notwithstanding. The specific problem in the US is the dysfunctional culture which seems to be mainstream among blacks. If this can be addressed somehow (or, as at present, ignored) I think your goal may be well within reach.

    Sorry for the long discussion, probably mostly unrelated to what you were asking about.

    that nationalist movements, especially in Europe but to some extent here too, generally and traditionally have an antisemitist

    I assume that you are correct about Europe. In the US, many of the “populist” movements have had an anti-Semitic component.

    disproportionately Jewish, has an inordinate amount of influence in the modern West.

    Disproportionate numbers and influence of American Jews in several fields are obvious points of departure for anti-Semitism.

    I hope you don’t consider me irredeemable if I recommend Belloc’s The Jews

    I do, and just based upon this small snippet:

    Chapter 1
    The Thesis of this Book
    The Jews are an alien body within the society… the solution of that problem is urgently necessary.
    … An alien body in any organism is disposed of in one of two ways: elimination and segregation.

    I think the most important thing is to weaken the finance industry

    pipe dream

    a nationalist movement will have some idea of race

    Not an American nationalism.

    The specific problem in the US is the dysfunctional culture which seems to be mainstream among blacks.

    Mainstream blacks are not dysfunctional. They have a larger segment of their people that are dysfunctional as opposed to whites and they are geographical concentrated more than the dysfunctional fraction in the white race.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon
    I mean this only as the mildest of criticisms, but, in my opinion, you do too much of your estimation based on "small snippets". I recommended Belloc as an example of the attitudes towards the Jews which existed on the pre-Nazi (and anti-Nazi) old Right. I'd say if you think weakening the financial industry is a pipe dream, you may be right, but it doesn't matter. It should be attempted, not principally to reduce Jewish influence, but as a good in its own right, and a necessary good for any kind of nationalist movement, which will otherwise be strangled in its cradle.

    You have either not read my last (full) paragraph very carefully or are positing something you have not fully explained; anyway, the point is that an American nationalism which does not distinguish the American from the Canadian is no kind of nationalism at all. If you want to restrict the term race to the silly distinctions of nose-width and skin-color, then a non-racist nationalism is certainly not something to which I object. I did not say that "mainstream blacks", whoever they are, are dysfunctional; I said, or anyway ought to have said, that a dysfunctional culture exists in the main stream of the black cultural continuum. A glance at the illegitimacy rates should bear me out here.

    I still recommend you read Belloc. If you want to burn his books afterwards and dance on the flames, that's fine with me. Many do so desire, for various reasons. And, incidentally, I'm sure H.G. Wells was among them!
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Anon
    I hate to keep jumping in like this, and possibly I'm annoying you by now, but I'm surprised that you would think that the question of Nazism was a major factor in our latest election cycle. Perhaps it was in the circles in which you move, but to those I know the questions were the perennial ones of war, the economy, immigration, social policy, and personality.

    To accuse Trump of Nazism is absurd on the face of it, likewise Clinton, despite the euphonious moniker "Hitlery". The left always smears the right in America with David Duke, the KKK, and whatever other fringe groups support them. In this case Spencer and some others who could with some reason be labeled Nazis came out for Trump, and were duly publicised. I'm a little worried that this time the MSM may be going off the rails, because they seem more shrill and their charges more remotely contrived than ever before. But I doubt their characterization had too much effect on the election itself.

    I hate to keep jumping in like this, and possibly I’m annoying you by now,

    Not at all, you make very good comments. The only annoying part is the fact that you do not have an identifiable handle. I don’t read anon comments unless I see that one has replied to a comment of mine.

    I will try to respond to some of your good points when I have more time. For some reason I was under the mistaken impression that you were European which generated some pointless stuff on my part.

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  • Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @iffen

    my main areas of political concern are foreign policy and in particular opposing interventionist stupidity, supporting a revival of nationalism and opposing the nowadays predominant globalist corporatism and internationalism, and opposing the socially liberal (as opposed to politically liberal in the English rather than American sense of the word) dogmas that seek to normalise homosexual behaviour. And nowadays, also to fight back against the creeping attempts to criminalise dissent in these areas.
     
    your side

    Interesting classification of me on your part as I can whole-heartedly subscribe to everything in this first paragraph of yours, with only some qualifications on the homosexual issue.

    When you gave your description of the original Nazi party policies, did you intentionally leave out the part about getting rid of the people that didn’t fit the mold, or was that just an oversight?

    You didn’t make any attempt to answer this question.

    whose plans include a mass slaughter of people


    In that you think that unconscious dishonesty exist you should be alert to unconscious Nazism.

    I have only a limited knowledge of Hitler and his Nazism, but it is clear that he did not have the Final Solution in mind when he began his political career. He was virulently anti-Semitic, as were many others at that time. He envisioned pogroms, expulsion, denial of citizenship, etc., not mass extermination. To understand Nazism we have to look back to the supporting ideology and premises that led to the Final Solution. Only acknowledging people who advocate mass murder is head in the sand behavior.

    an early C20th German political party that has little or no relevance to modern day issues

    We just had a Presidential election in which the Nazi question was a major, if not the major factor.

    My cursory knowledge of European politics tell me that it is an essential question there.

    I have some understanding of your concern with the European hate speech laws and I share that concern. I am concerned about the accusations of Nazism in American politics. For me, that concern dictates trying to acquire the knowledge to be able to distinguish and determine for myself what is Nazi propaganda and what is legitimate political discourse.

    I hate to keep jumping in like this, and possibly I’m annoying you by now, but I’m surprised that you would think that the question of Nazism was a major factor in our latest election cycle. Perhaps it was in the circles in which you move, but to those I know the questions were the perennial ones of war, the economy, immigration, social policy, and personality.

    To accuse Trump of Nazism is absurd on the face of it, likewise Clinton, despite the euphonious moniker “Hitlery”. The left always smears the right in America with David Duke, the KKK, and whatever other fringe groups support them. In this case Spencer and some others who could with some reason be labeled Nazis came out for Trump, and were duly publicised. I’m a little worried that this time the MSM may be going off the rails, because they seem more shrill and their charges more remotely contrived than ever before. But I doubt their characterization had too much effect on the election itself.

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    I hate to keep jumping in like this, and possibly I’m annoying you by now,

    Not at all, you make very good comments. The only annoying part is the fact that you do not have an identifiable handle. I don't read anon comments unless I see that one has replied to a comment of mine.

    I will try to respond to some of your good points when I have more time. For some reason I was under the mistaken impression that you were European which generated some pointless stuff on my part.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @iffen
    incoherence in his philosophy

    This only bothers a small segment, you, me and a handful of others. :)

    It is actually an advantage for him.

    It might help him get elected President some day. :)

    Hey iffen,

    I agree with JW’s assessment; Spencer came across like a frat boy (especially when he was insulting random people for their weight) – but nobody really had a good argument against him. Which really shows the lack of coherence on the other side. Of course, his cheering squad seemed to be the equivalent of his ‘frat buddies’ – so you may be right about it being an advantage. He really reminds me of Anjem Chaudry the more I think about it; good debater, comes across as knowledgeable, people challenging him don’t have enough grounding to point out his incoherence.

    And something is really going wrong if they have to go on a ‘denazification program’.

    JW would be taken care of

    Hmmm – that could go a couple of ways; as when your mom says “Don’t worry, I’ll take care of you.” versus when the mafia says it.

    My reading of history (with Muslims anyway) shows that meritocracy is the best policy in a multi-ethnic milieu (and removal of barriers of participation is a laudable goal – which includes removing quotas keeping capable Whites out or promoting token minorities). I won’t go over why the Arab-supremacist Umayyad Caliphate was so short lived because you likely know (from reading Kennedy) that the mawali revolts against them was because of their nepotism and non-inclusion. A more poignant (and possibly relevant example – since it deals with [White] Circassians) is that of the difference between the Bahri and Burji Mamluks of Egypt:
    “There is universal agreement among historians that the Mamluk state reached its height under the Turkish sultans and then fell into a prolonged phase of decline under the Circassians…But the historians of the era date the beginning of the dynasty’s decline from the accession of the first Circassian sultan (Barquq) in 1382, claiming that thereafter, advancement in the state and the army was dependent on race (i.e., Circassian descent) rather than on proved skill in the art of war, which had served as the chief criterion for promotion during the Turkish period.”

    https://www.britannica.com/topic/Mamluk

    It might help him get elected President

    All kidding aside – a man this comfortable at publicly declaring his vision at playing god should not be allowed anywhere near the levers of power*.

    Peace.

    *I’d actually love to see a test mandated for any people running for Congress or higher that they must submit themselves to a screening to see where they fall on the sociopath/psychopath spectrum and have the result publicly known. Of course, if they are really good, they may be able to fool test.

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    The commenter meant in the mafia sense.

    something is really going wrong if they have to go on a ‘denazification program’

    Yes, you must be aware that if you are going to have a "white" political movement you have to decide whether to allow anti-Semites to be members. It is a complement to the question that plays out in softer forums as to whether Jews are to be considered white.

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @iffen
    I can’t help you with European politics as I am not knowledgeable. I have read some bad stuff about Golden Dawn. I have read little more about the National Front. I like this Marine Le Pen and I think that it was a smart and sensible move on her part to eject her father, as he clearly has Nazi attributes.

    The American Nazi Party is not a factor.

    There is not a “nationalist” party in the US. There are some political groups on the right that are white nationalist or white identitarian. Most of them are also anti-Semitic, although the one led by Jared Taylor is not. None are a factor in electoral politics.

    The “purist” nationalist thread in American politics has been within the Republican Party.

    My political hope is for us to develop a non-racist, non-Nazi, nationalist leaning political grouping.

    I see. I think I “get where you’re coming from” now, as the phrase goes.

    One problem I see is that nationalist movements, especially in Europe but to some extent here too, generally and traditionally have an antisemitist tinge to them, Mme. le Pen being anomalous in this regard. I don’t know much about her father (he may be a raging Hitler supporter for all I know), but a mild (mild as in not advocating mass murder) strain of antisemitism has existed in the French Right as long as there has been a French Right, and especially since the turn of the century and the Dreyfus case. I think the traditional antisemitism of the Right is due first to the international position of the more prominent Jews, and second to the fact that the financial industry, traditionally a Jewish occupation and still disproportionately Jewish, has an inordinate amount of influence in the modern West. Of course nowadays the perception of divided loyalty, always the main charge, is strengthened by the obvious and undeniable Israeli influence at the top level of American politics.

    I hope you don’t consider me irredeemable if I recommend Belloc’s The Jews for a look at the traditional view of the topic. Belloc being very much anti-Nazi, by the way. What is to be done now? I think the most important thing is to weaken the finance industry and its power to affect politics; this done, most of the resentment against the Jews will die down. Unfortunately the “divided loyalties” question will still exist, despite the many Jews who are wholly patriotic for the country in which they live. It’s less of a problem in the US than in Europe, though, because of the way our country was populated, and since it isn’t a public question now it’s unlikely to become one.

    As for racism, I think it inevitable that a nationalist movement will have some idea of race, or more precisely of a nation, which used to mean much the same thing. This can be had without silliness about Mongoloids or Negroids or Caucasoids, and, I think, generally is, the handful of WNs notwithstanding. The specific problem in the US is the dysfunctional culture which seems to be mainstream among blacks. If this can be addressed somehow (or, as at present, ignored) I think your goal may be well within reach.

    Sorry for the long discussion, probably mostly unrelated to what you were asking about.

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    that nationalist movements, especially in Europe but to some extent here too, generally and traditionally have an antisemitist

    I assume that you are correct about Europe. In the US, many of the “populist” movements have had an anti-Semitic component.

    disproportionately Jewish, has an inordinate amount of influence in the modern West.

    Disproportionate numbers and influence of American Jews in several fields are obvious points of departure for anti-Semitism.

    I hope you don’t consider me irredeemable if I recommend Belloc’s The Jews

    I do, and just based upon this small snippet:

    Chapter 1
    The Thesis of this Book
    The Jews are an alien body within the society… the solution of that problem is urgently necessary.
    … An alien body in any organism is disposed of in one of two ways: elimination and segregation.

     

    I think the most important thing is to weaken the finance industry

    pipe dream

    a nationalist movement will have some idea of race


    Not an American nationalism.

    The specific problem in the US is the dysfunctional culture which seems to be mainstream among blacks.


    Mainstream blacks are not dysfunctional. They have a larger segment of their people that are dysfunctional as opposed to whites and they are geographical concentrated more than the dysfunctional fraction in the white race.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Randal

    You are oblivious or willfully ignorant.
     
    Perhaps. Nazi-hunting is clearly not a major concern of mine, since my main areas of political concern are foreign policy and in particular opposing interventionist stupidity, supporting a revival of nationalism and opposing the nowadays predominant globalist corporatism and internationalism, and opposing the socially liberal (as opposed to politically liberal in the English rather than American sense of the word) dogmas that seek to normalise homosexual behaviour. And nowadays, also to fight back against the creeping attempts to criminalise dissent in these areas.

    So I'm not desperately hunting for people to call Nazis, which might mean I miss some people who are, as you put it, "“actual Nazis” pretend[ing] to be otherwise", but it also means that I will likely miss all the "false positives" that your side on this issue seem to find.

    When you gave your description of the original Nazi party policies, did you intentionally leave out the part about getting rid of the people that didn’t fit the mold, or was that just an oversight?
     
    Are you saying there are lots of people who have mass murder as part of their intended political program? Didn't seem relevant to the issue under discussion, tbh.

    Fwiw, if you can find anyone whose plans include a mass slaughter of people who "don't fit the mold", then I'd say the term "Nazi-like" would not be inappropriate. I'd want rather more than just that to call them specifically "Nazi", but I'm generally quite precise in my use of terms.

    Would the descriptor, Nazi-like, be acceptable?
     
    Clearly Nazi-like has a much broader coverage than Nazi.

    But fundamentally I suppose I don't understand what you hope to achieve with the constant references to an early C20th German political party that has little or no relevance to modern day issues, except in the sense that all historically significant actors are relevant to understanding how we got where we are.

    I understand that in most cases what those who use the term hope to achieve is to smear their debate opponents by association with a very toxic historical brand in the hope that they can thereby make any discussion of particular issues from an opposed perspective more difficult.

    my main areas of political concern are foreign policy and in particular opposing interventionist stupidity, supporting a revival of nationalism and opposing the nowadays predominant globalist corporatism and internationalism, and opposing the socially liberal (as opposed to politically liberal in the English rather than American sense of the word) dogmas that seek to normalise homosexual behaviour. And nowadays, also to fight back against the creeping attempts to criminalise dissent in these areas.

    your side

    Interesting classification of me on your part as I can whole-heartedly subscribe to everything in this first paragraph of yours, with only some qualifications on the homosexual issue.

    When you gave your description of the original Nazi party policies, did you intentionally leave out the part about getting rid of the people that didn’t fit the mold, or was that just an oversight?

    You didn’t make any attempt to answer this question.

    whose plans include a mass slaughter of people

    In that you think that unconscious dishonesty exist you should be alert to unconscious Nazism.

    I have only a limited knowledge of Hitler and his Nazism, but it is clear that he did not have the Final Solution in mind when he began his political career. He was virulently anti-Semitic, as were many others at that time. He envisioned pogroms, expulsion, denial of citizenship, etc., not mass extermination. To understand Nazism we have to look back to the supporting ideology and premises that led to the Final Solution. Only acknowledging people who advocate mass murder is head in the sand behavior.

    an early C20th German political party that has little or no relevance to modern day issues

    We just had a Presidential election in which the Nazi question was a major, if not the major factor.

    My cursory knowledge of European politics tell me that it is an essential question there.

    I have some understanding of your concern with the European hate speech laws and I share that concern. I am concerned about the accusations of Nazism in American politics. For me, that concern dictates trying to acquire the knowledge to be able to distinguish and determine for myself what is Nazi propaganda and what is legitimate political discourse.

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    • Replies: @Anon
    I hate to keep jumping in like this, and possibly I'm annoying you by now, but I'm surprised that you would think that the question of Nazism was a major factor in our latest election cycle. Perhaps it was in the circles in which you move, but to those I know the questions were the perennial ones of war, the economy, immigration, social policy, and personality.

    To accuse Trump of Nazism is absurd on the face of it, likewise Clinton, despite the euphonious moniker "Hitlery". The left always smears the right in America with David Duke, the KKK, and whatever other fringe groups support them. In this case Spencer and some others who could with some reason be labeled Nazis came out for Trump, and were duly publicised. I'm a little worried that this time the MSM may be going off the rails, because they seem more shrill and their charges more remotely contrived than ever before. But I doubt their characterization had too much effect on the election itself.
    , @Randal

    Interesting classification of me on your part as I can whole-heartedly subscribe to everything in this first paragraph of yours, with only some qualifications on the homosexual issue.
     
    I was confining the "sides" to the issue of pro- and anti-demonization of people who fail to approve sufficiently of jewish people, jewish issues and the jewish state, or as you would presumably prefer to describe it, the pro- and anti-anti-Semitism sides, since that issue seemed to be the main topic of this exchange.

    I tend to think of people as being on the same or different sides according to particular issues, rather than being "with us or against us" overall. Another reason I object to casting people into the outer darkness because they are "antisemitic" or "Nazi". Your position, of agreeing with me on many of the biggest issues whilst disagreeing on "anti-Semitism"-related issues in particular is in my experience not at all unusual.

    And my opposition to interventionist warfare and to globalist corporatism, for instance, often puts me on the same side on those issues as radical leftists with whom I would probably virulently disagree on many other issues.

    You didn’t make any attempt to answer this question.

     

    I assumed it was rhetorical, and responded to what I understood as the spirit of the question by saying I felt it was irrelevant and explaining why.

    To understand Nazism we have to look back to the supporting ideology and premises that led to the Final Solution. Only acknowledging people who advocate mass murder is head in the sand behavior.
     
    Any such attempts are going to be speculative and highly subjective, imo. You might appreciate the point better by considering the parallels with all the anti-racist nonsense about supposedly racist attitudes and beliefs that must be condemned and suppressed because they might somehow "lead to" KKK lynch-mobbing of blacks. Such as any opposition to mass immigration, for instance.

    We just had a Presidential election in which the Nazi question was a major, if not the major factor.
     
    Not that I noticed. A minor one, perhaps.

    determine for myself what is Nazi propaganda and what is legitimate political discourse
     
    I think I would reject the distinction you are trying to set up here, ab initio. All political discourse is "legitimate", imo, provided it does not descend into illegality by, for instance, directly advocating criminal violence. That's not to say all political positions are correct, obviously, or acceptable to all people, or even basically honest. But "illegitimate" goes a lot further than merely unacceptable, I think, and implies at least support for its active suppression and censorship in the public square, and at worst support for outright criminalisation.

    If what you intended by "illegitimate" was merely "unacceptable to you personally", then fine. That's obviously your prerogative.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Anon
    I, for one, do not know what you are talking about. Be more specific, please. Names would help, together with an explanation.

    The descriptor would not be acceptable, to me at least, because I do not know what it is you are referencing. I get that Svoboda is essentially a Nazi party; any others? I haven't looked into Golden Dawn but I've heard the same about them; I really don't know or care enough about Greek politics to tell.

    There is, I think, an American Nazi party, but it's pretty explicit, or was last I heard of it.

    I can’t help you with European politics as I am not knowledgeable. I have read some bad stuff about Golden Dawn. I have read little more about the National Front. I like this Marine Le Pen and I think that it was a smart and sensible move on her part to eject her father, as he clearly has Nazi attributes.

    The American Nazi Party is not a factor.

    There is not a “nationalist” party in the US. There are some political groups on the right that are white nationalist or white identitarian. Most of them are also anti-Semitic, although the one led by Jared Taylor is not. None are a factor in electoral politics.

    The “purist” nationalist thread in American politics has been within the Republican Party.

    My political hope is for us to develop a non-racist, non-Nazi, nationalist leaning political grouping.

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    • Replies: @Anon
    I see. I think I "get where you're coming from" now, as the phrase goes.

    One problem I see is that nationalist movements, especially in Europe but to some extent here too, generally and traditionally have an antisemitist tinge to them, Mme. le Pen being anomalous in this regard. I don't know much about her father (he may be a raging Hitler supporter for all I know), but a mild (mild as in not advocating mass murder) strain of antisemitism has existed in the French Right as long as there has been a French Right, and especially since the turn of the century and the Dreyfus case. I think the traditional antisemitism of the Right is due first to the international position of the more prominent Jews, and second to the fact that the financial industry, traditionally a Jewish occupation and still disproportionately Jewish, has an inordinate amount of influence in the modern West. Of course nowadays the perception of divided loyalty, always the main charge, is strengthened by the obvious and undeniable Israeli influence at the top level of American politics.

    I hope you don't consider me irredeemable if I recommend Belloc's The Jews for a look at the traditional view of the topic. Belloc being very much anti-Nazi, by the way. What is to be done now? I think the most important thing is to weaken the finance industry and its power to affect politics; this done, most of the resentment against the Jews will die down. Unfortunately the "divided loyalties" question will still exist, despite the many Jews who are wholly patriotic for the country in which they live. It's less of a problem in the US than in Europe, though, because of the way our country was populated, and since it isn't a public question now it's unlikely to become one.

    As for racism, I think it inevitable that a nationalist movement will have some idea of race, or more precisely of a nation, which used to mean much the same thing. This can be had without silliness about Mongoloids or Negroids or Caucasoids, and, I think, generally is, the handful of WNs notwithstanding. The specific problem in the US is the dysfunctional culture which seems to be mainstream among blacks. If this can be addressed somehow (or, as at present, ignored) I think your goal may be well within reach.

    Sorry for the long discussion, probably mostly unrelated to what you were asking about.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Talha
    Hey iffen,

    Oh yeah! LOL! Sherm - I forgot about him. He usually only shows up when Rehmat (or as Sherm would say, "Homer") is around - the order and balance in the universe must be maintained.

    The goats! LOL!

    Just watched an interesting video with Richard Spencer talking at Texas A&M - he comes across as fairly reasonable and has honed his debating skills. His questioners don't know how to point out the incoherence in his philosophy and sound fairly emotional.

    Peace.

    incoherence in his philosophy

    This only bothers a small segment, you, me and a handful of others. :)

    It is actually an advantage for him.

    It might help him get elected President some day. :)

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey iffen,

    I agree with JW's assessment; Spencer came across like a frat boy (especially when he was insulting random people for their weight) - but nobody really had a good argument against him. Which really shows the lack of coherence on the other side. Of course, his cheering squad seemed to be the equivalent of his 'frat buddies' - so you may be right about it being an advantage. He really reminds me of Anjem Chaudry the more I think about it; good debater, comes across as knowledgeable, people challenging him don't have enough grounding to point out his incoherence.

    And something is really going wrong if they have to go on a 'denazification program'.


    JW would be taken care of
     
    Hmmm - that could go a couple of ways; as when your mom says "Don't worry, I'll take care of you." versus when the mafia says it.

    My reading of history (with Muslims anyway) shows that meritocracy is the best policy in a multi-ethnic milieu (and removal of barriers of participation is a laudable goal - which includes removing quotas keeping capable Whites out or promoting token minorities). I won't go over why the Arab-supremacist Umayyad Caliphate was so short lived because you likely know (from reading Kennedy) that the mawali revolts against them was because of their nepotism and non-inclusion. A more poignant (and possibly relevant example - since it deals with [White] Circassians) is that of the difference between the Bahri and Burji Mamluks of Egypt:
    "There is universal agreement among historians that the Mamluk state reached its height under the Turkish sultans and then fell into a prolonged phase of decline under the Circassians...But the historians of the era date the beginning of the dynasty’s decline from the accession of the first Circassian sultan (Barquq) in 1382, claiming that thereafter, advancement in the state and the army was dependent on race (i.e., Circassian descent) rather than on proved skill in the art of war, which had served as the chief criterion for promotion during the Turkish period."
    https://www.britannica.com/topic/Mamluk


    It might help him get elected President
     
    All kidding aside - a man this comfortable at publicly declaring his vision at playing god should not be allowed anywhere near the levers of power*.

    Peace.

    *I'd actually love to see a test mandated for any people running for Congress or higher that they must submit themselves to a screening to see where they fall on the sociopath/psychopath spectrum and have the result publicly known. Of course, if they are really good, they may be able to fool test.

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Talha
    Hey iffen,

    Oh yeah! LOL! Sherm - I forgot about him. He usually only shows up when Rehmat (or as Sherm would say, "Homer") is around - the order and balance in the universe must be maintained.

    The goats! LOL!

    Just watched an interesting video with Richard Spencer talking at Texas A&M - he comes across as fairly reasonable and has honed his debating skills. His questioners don't know how to point out the incoherence in his philosophy and sound fairly emotional.

    Peace.

    In case you missed it, this is part of what JW had to say:

    Richard Spencer, whom I know, is the equivalent on the racial right, of pussy riot on the loony left. His ego is on parade and I have started a call on the racial right to repudiate him and his juvenile antics, and to go on to a denazification program. White Nationalism is now a diseased term, thanks to Spencer.

    In a comment directed at JW, one of his comrades stated that JW would be taken care of when the new Reich is in place.


    he comes across as fairly reasonable and has honed his debating skills.

    I think I understand why some whites are attracted to and can be influenced by these types.

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    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @iffen
    but I’ve never knowingly encountered the latter

    You are oblivious or willfully ignorant.

    When you gave your description of the original Nazi party policies, did you intentionally leave out the part about getting rid of the people that didn't fit the mold, or was that just an oversight?

    Would the descriptor, Nazi-like, be acceptable?

    You are oblivious or willfully ignorant.

    Perhaps. Nazi-hunting is clearly not a major concern of mine, since my main areas of political concern are foreign policy and in particular opposing interventionist stupidity, supporting a revival of nationalism and opposing the nowadays predominant globalist corporatism and internationalism, and opposing the socially liberal (as opposed to politically liberal in the English rather than American sense of the word) dogmas that seek to normalise homosexual behaviour. And nowadays, also to fight back against the creeping attempts to criminalise dissent in these areas.

    So I’m not desperately hunting for people to call Nazis, which might mean I miss some people who are, as you put it, ““actual Nazis” pretend[ing] to be otherwise”, but it also means that I will likely miss all the “false positives” that your side on this issue seem to find.

    When you gave your description of the original Nazi party policies, did you intentionally leave out the part about getting rid of the people that didn’t fit the mold, or was that just an oversight?

    Are you saying there are lots of people who have mass murder as part of their intended political program? Didn’t seem relevant to the issue under discussion, tbh.

    Fwiw, if you can find anyone whose plans include a mass slaughter of people who “don’t fit the mold”, then I’d say the term “Nazi-like” would not be inappropriate. I’d want rather more than just that to call them specifically “Nazi”, but I’m generally quite precise in my use of terms.

    Would the descriptor, Nazi-like, be acceptable?

    Clearly Nazi-like has a much broader coverage than Nazi.

    But fundamentally I suppose I don’t understand what you hope to achieve with the constant references to an early C20th German political party that has little or no relevance to modern day issues, except in the sense that all historically significant actors are relevant to understanding how we got where we are.

    I understand that in most cases what those who use the term hope to achieve is to smear their debate opponents by association with a very toxic historical brand in the hope that they can thereby make any discussion of particular issues from an opposed perspective more difficult.

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen

    my main areas of political concern are foreign policy and in particular opposing interventionist stupidity, supporting a revival of nationalism and opposing the nowadays predominant globalist corporatism and internationalism, and opposing the socially liberal (as opposed to politically liberal in the English rather than American sense of the word) dogmas that seek to normalise homosexual behaviour. And nowadays, also to fight back against the creeping attempts to criminalise dissent in these areas.
     
    your side

    Interesting classification of me on your part as I can whole-heartedly subscribe to everything in this first paragraph of yours, with only some qualifications on the homosexual issue.

    When you gave your description of the original Nazi party policies, did you intentionally leave out the part about getting rid of the people that didn’t fit the mold, or was that just an oversight?

    You didn’t make any attempt to answer this question.

    whose plans include a mass slaughter of people


    In that you think that unconscious dishonesty exist you should be alert to unconscious Nazism.

    I have only a limited knowledge of Hitler and his Nazism, but it is clear that he did not have the Final Solution in mind when he began his political career. He was virulently anti-Semitic, as were many others at that time. He envisioned pogroms, expulsion, denial of citizenship, etc., not mass extermination. To understand Nazism we have to look back to the supporting ideology and premises that led to the Final Solution. Only acknowledging people who advocate mass murder is head in the sand behavior.

    an early C20th German political party that has little or no relevance to modern day issues

    We just had a Presidential election in which the Nazi question was a major, if not the major factor.

    My cursory knowledge of European politics tell me that it is an essential question there.

    I have some understanding of your concern with the European hate speech laws and I share that concern. I am concerned about the accusations of Nazism in American politics. For me, that concern dictates trying to acquire the knowledge to be able to distinguish and determine for myself what is Nazi propaganda and what is legitimate political discourse.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Anon
    I, for one, do not know what you are talking about. Be more specific, please. Names would help, together with an explanation.

    The descriptor would not be acceptable, to me at least, because I do not know what it is you are referencing. I get that Svoboda is essentially a Nazi party; any others? I haven't looked into Golden Dawn but I've heard the same about them; I really don't know or care enough about Greek politics to tell.

    There is, I think, an American Nazi party, but it's pretty explicit, or was last I heard of it.

    LOL. ;) (How innocently sincere you are.)

    If’n just means that anyone here who says that the (((Israel (((L)))obby))) has a malign influence on US politics and policies is a Nazi.

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  • @iffen
    JW takes a week or two off every now and then, mostly likely to eyeball coeds, I think. He has some interesting knowledge to pass on at times (for example his take on Spencer.)

    Rehmat may have run across Sherm and, well, that wouldn't be good for either of them, or the goats for that matter.

    the lack of internet noise

    I am sure that some here are hoping that I don't try to take up the slack.

    Hey iffen,

    Oh yeah! LOL! Sherm – I forgot about him. He usually only shows up when Rehmat (or as Sherm would say, “Homer”) is around – the order and balance in the universe must be maintained.

    The goats! LOL!

    Just watched an interesting video with Richard Spencer talking at Texas A&M – he comes across as fairly reasonable and has honed his debating skills. His questioners don’t know how to point out the incoherence in his philosophy and sound fairly emotional.

    Peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    In case you missed it, this is part of what JW had to say:

    Richard Spencer, whom I know, is the equivalent on the racial right, of pussy riot on the loony left. His ego is on parade and I have started a call on the racial right to repudiate him and his juvenile antics, and to go on to a denazification program. White Nationalism is now a diseased term, thanks to Spencer.

     

    In a comment directed at JW, one of his comrades stated that JW would be taken care of when the new Reich is in place.


    he comes across as fairly reasonable and has honed his debating skills.


    I think I understand why some whites are attracted to and can be influenced by these types.
    , @iffen
    incoherence in his philosophy

    This only bothers a small segment, you, me and a handful of others. :)

    It is actually an advantage for him.

    It might help him get elected President some day. :)
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @RobinG

    Our mind tells us that there is a beginning to everything.
     
    Not my mind. This is chicken and egg stuff. You think before the beginning there was nothing? The big bang came from absolutely nothing?

    When I was very small, I was perplexed with the idea of beyond: what is beyond the universe? Is there an edge? What is around that? And that....? After a few years I stopped dwelling on it. There wasn't and answer. Just infinity, backwards and forwards. and endless time. (Is there time? Maybe nothing is all happening at once.)

    God is what we call the unfathomable. We used to sing, "Tell me the stories of Jesus.." That says it all. That's what they are: stories. Illustrations of right living. Parables made up by wise ancestors. And that Paul guy incorporated all manner of myth for psychological effect.

    There wasn’t and answer. Just infinity, backwards and forwards. and endless time. (Is there time? Maybe nothing is all happening at once.)

    RobinG,

    For what it is worth – science says that the universe will die – that all of the universe will come to the same temperature – and when that happens nothing can interact with anything else.

    They consider it the most true thing that they know.

    Peace — Art

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  • Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @iffen
    but I’ve never knowingly encountered the latter

    You are oblivious or willfully ignorant.

    When you gave your description of the original Nazi party policies, did you intentionally leave out the part about getting rid of the people that didn't fit the mold, or was that just an oversight?

    Would the descriptor, Nazi-like, be acceptable?

    I, for one, do not know what you are talking about. Be more specific, please. Names would help, together with an explanation.

    The descriptor would not be acceptable, to me at least, because I do not know what it is you are referencing. I get that Svoboda is essentially a Nazi party; any others? I haven’t looked into Golden Dawn but I’ve heard the same about them; I really don’t know or care enough about Greek politics to tell.

    There is, I think, an American Nazi party, but it’s pretty explicit, or was last I heard of it.

    Read More
    • Replies: @RobinG
    LOL. ;) (How innocently sincere you are.)

    If'n just means that anyone here who says that the (((Israel (((L)))obby))) has a malign influence on US politics and policies is a Nazi.
    , @iffen
    I can’t help you with European politics as I am not knowledgeable. I have read some bad stuff about Golden Dawn. I have read little more about the National Front. I like this Marine Le Pen and I think that it was a smart and sensible move on her part to eject her father, as he clearly has Nazi attributes.

    The American Nazi Party is not a factor.

    There is not a “nationalist” party in the US. There are some political groups on the right that are white nationalist or white identitarian. Most of them are also anti-Semitic, although the one led by Jared Taylor is not. None are a factor in electoral politics.

    The “purist” nationalist thread in American politics has been within the Republican Party.

    My political hope is for us to develop a non-racist, non-Nazi, nationalist leaning political grouping.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Talha
    Whatever happened to old JW? And Rehmat for that matter? I mean, I don't mind the lack of internet noise, but I hope they're OK. Hopefully they didn't accidentally come across each other and now are in a position not to be able to type right now.

    JW takes a week or two off every now and then, mostly likely to eyeball coeds, I think. He has some interesting knowledge to pass on at times (for example his take on Spencer.)

    Rehmat may have run across Sherm and, well, that wouldn’t be good for either of them, or the goats for that matter.

    the lack of internet noise

    I am sure that some here are hoping that I don’t try to take up the slack.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey iffen,

    Oh yeah! LOL! Sherm - I forgot about him. He usually only shows up when Rehmat (or as Sherm would say, "Homer") is around - the order and balance in the universe must be maintained.

    The goats! LOL!

    Just watched an interesting video with Richard Spencer talking at Texas A&M - he comes across as fairly reasonable and has honed his debating skills. His questioners don't know how to point out the incoherence in his philosophy and sound fairly emotional.

    Peace.

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Randal

    I don’t think there is something that could be called unconscious dishonesty.

     

    For instance, when an anti-Semite witchfinder calls me an anti-Semite or a Nazi because I fail to pay what he sees as due respect to the Holocaust idol, or because I say harsh things about Israel, or because I mention the jewish lobby, he probably believes what he is saying on one level. But unless he is profoundly stupid, he must know that he is inferring a motive or a political position speculatively and has no firm grounds for making such an assertion. He just doesn't care, because he hates what I am saying and wants a reason to discredit it.

    That's what I mean by unconscious dishonesty. One could term it differently of course, or one could give it the benefit of the doubt and claim it's just hyperbole. But it is usually done with real malice behind it, and sometimes with harmful intent (of getting me censored, or in the worst cases of snitching to the government to try to use the speechcrime laws to put me in prison).

    As to deliberate dishonesty, it plays out on both sides. People use the Nazi label to castigate their political opponents and “actual Nazis” pretend to be otherwise.

     

    I suppose this must be true, yes. but I've never knowingly encountered the latter, whereas the former is commonplace and indeed I've been a target of it myself. In truth, since I'm a visceral conservative but from the non-authoritarian wing rather than the authoritarian side, I almost could not be further from being a Nazi in the aspects that are most significant to making one such, in my view - economic and social politics. The main areas I share with them would be nationalism and a traditionalist disapproval of sexual deviance.

    How about a little elaboration here. I would like to understand exactly what you mean by combining the terms. As you may know, Nazis are always trying to fiddle with the meaning and significance of the Holocaust.
     
    I had in mind only the etymology and nothing more significant.

    I see that one can be an anti-Semite and not be a Nazi; I just don’t seem to run across that many.
     
    Well to be meaningfully a Nazi, to me, one would have to embrace the social and political policies of the original Nazi party - authoritarian constraints on speech and expression, aggressive expansionism and militarism, strong political centralisation and the primacy of the common good over the individual.

    I don't see any reason why such views need have any connection to anti-Semitism. Indeed, I see parallels between, for instance, the Nazi requirement for words and art that they saw as "harmful to the common good" to be suppressed by law, and the "hate speech" laws that are becoming such a blot on European societies. In reality, such positions are much closer to the neoconservative position than to any other substantial US/UK political movement.

    but I’ve never knowingly encountered the latter

    You are oblivious or willfully ignorant.

    When you gave your description of the original Nazi party policies, did you intentionally leave out the part about getting rid of the people that didn’t fit the mold, or was that just an oversight?

    Would the descriptor, Nazi-like, be acceptable?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon
    I, for one, do not know what you are talking about. Be more specific, please. Names would help, together with an explanation.

    The descriptor would not be acceptable, to me at least, because I do not know what it is you are referencing. I get that Svoboda is essentially a Nazi party; any others? I haven't looked into Golden Dawn but I've heard the same about them; I really don't know or care enough about Greek politics to tell.

    There is, I think, an American Nazi party, but it's pretty explicit, or was last I heard of it.
    , @Randal

    You are oblivious or willfully ignorant.
     
    Perhaps. Nazi-hunting is clearly not a major concern of mine, since my main areas of political concern are foreign policy and in particular opposing interventionist stupidity, supporting a revival of nationalism and opposing the nowadays predominant globalist corporatism and internationalism, and opposing the socially liberal (as opposed to politically liberal in the English rather than American sense of the word) dogmas that seek to normalise homosexual behaviour. And nowadays, also to fight back against the creeping attempts to criminalise dissent in these areas.

    So I'm not desperately hunting for people to call Nazis, which might mean I miss some people who are, as you put it, "“actual Nazis” pretend[ing] to be otherwise", but it also means that I will likely miss all the "false positives" that your side on this issue seem to find.

    When you gave your description of the original Nazi party policies, did you intentionally leave out the part about getting rid of the people that didn’t fit the mold, or was that just an oversight?
     
    Are you saying there are lots of people who have mass murder as part of their intended political program? Didn't seem relevant to the issue under discussion, tbh.

    Fwiw, if you can find anyone whose plans include a mass slaughter of people who "don't fit the mold", then I'd say the term "Nazi-like" would not be inappropriate. I'd want rather more than just that to call them specifically "Nazi", but I'm generally quite precise in my use of terms.

    Would the descriptor, Nazi-like, be acceptable?
     
    Clearly Nazi-like has a much broader coverage than Nazi.

    But fundamentally I suppose I don't understand what you hope to achieve with the constant references to an early C20th German political party that has little or no relevance to modern day issues, except in the sense that all historically significant actors are relevant to understanding how we got where we are.

    I understand that in most cases what those who use the term hope to achieve is to smear their debate opponents by association with a very toxic historical brand in the hope that they can thereby make any discussion of particular issues from an opposed perspective more difficult.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @iffen
    dishonesty, whether deliberate or unconscious.

    I don’t think there is something that could be called unconscious dishonesty.

    As to deliberate dishonesty, it plays out on both sides. People use the Nazi label to castigate their political opponents and “actual Nazis” pretend to be otherwise.

    Clearly people struggle to identify “Nazis” at least as much as they struggle to use “Fascist” with any meaningful content.

    I know that there are some people (shout-out to you Joe Webb) that want to re-habilitate the national socialist label and shed the Nazi opprobrium. It is not going to happen. The NS brand has given way to the generic Nazi label and it cannot be changed. If I can be shown to be in error in this opinion, I will try to make some distinction between the two.

    Holocaust idol is an interesting construction.
    Indeed, and apt in this case.

    How about a little elaboration here. I would like to understand exactly what you mean by combining the terms. As you may know, Nazis are always trying to fiddle with the meaning and significance of the Holocaust.

    I see that one can be an anti-Semite and not be a Nazi; I just don't seem to run across that many.

    I don’t think there is something that could be called unconscious dishonesty.

    For instance, when an anti-Semite witchfinder calls me an anti-Semite or a Nazi because I fail to pay what he sees as due respect to the Holocaust idol, or because I say harsh things about Israel, or because I mention the jewish lobby, he probably believes what he is saying on one level. But unless he is profoundly stupid, he must know that he is inferring a motive or a political position speculatively and has no firm grounds for making such an assertion. He just doesn’t care, because he hates what I am saying and wants a reason to discredit it.

    That’s what I mean by unconscious dishonesty. One could term it differently of course, or one could give it the benefit of the doubt and claim it’s just hyperbole. But it is usually done with real malice behind it, and sometimes with harmful intent (of getting me censored, or in the worst cases of snitching to the government to try to use the speechcrime laws to put me in prison).

    As to deliberate dishonesty, it plays out on both sides. People use the Nazi label to castigate their political opponents and “actual Nazis” pretend to be otherwise.

    I suppose this must be true, yes. but I’ve never knowingly encountered the latter, whereas the former is commonplace and indeed I’ve been a target of it myself. In truth, since I’m a visceral conservative but from the non-authoritarian wing rather than the authoritarian side, I almost could not be further from being a Nazi in the aspects that are most significant to making one such, in my view – economic and social politics. The main areas I share with them would be nationalism and a traditionalist disapproval of sexual deviance.

    How about a little elaboration here. I would like to understand exactly what you mean by combining the terms. As you may know, Nazis are always trying to fiddle with the meaning and significance of the Holocaust.

    I had in mind only the etymology and nothing more significant.

    I see that one can be an anti-Semite and not be a Nazi; I just don’t seem to run across that many.

    Well to be meaningfully a Nazi, to me, one would have to embrace the social and political policies of the original Nazi party – authoritarian constraints on speech and expression, aggressive expansionism and militarism, strong political centralisation and the primacy of the common good over the individual.

    I don’t see any reason why such views need have any connection to anti-Semitism. Indeed, I see parallels between, for instance, the Nazi requirement for words and art that they saw as “harmful to the common good” to be suppressed by law, and the “hate speech” laws that are becoming such a blot on European societies. In reality, such positions are much closer to the neoconservative position than to any other substantial US/UK political movement.

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    • Replies: @iffen
    but I’ve never knowingly encountered the latter

    You are oblivious or willfully ignorant.

    When you gave your description of the original Nazi party policies, did you intentionally leave out the part about getting rid of the people that didn't fit the mold, or was that just an oversight?

    Would the descriptor, Nazi-like, be acceptable?
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Art
    Talha -- two cents on God.

    It is rational to believe that there is a God. Believing in God is not only a matter of faith. There are logical reasons to believe that there is a God.

    It is not rational to believe that God plays an actual role in the individual events of the universe. Science has never ever recorded a super natural event. With every advance in human observational skill, science finds a logical answer as to the how and why things work. There is an explainable natural progression of natural organization from atoms to human culture.

    From a Western perspective, notions of god have evolved. First was our native thinking that god was nature, that animals and rivers and winds had god like attributes. Then the Greek notion of multiple gods with different human attributes appeared. Then came the monotheistic Sun god. Then the Old Testament god of fire and brimstone that played with mankind. Then came the hopeful forgiving can-do optimistic Christian god. Our thinking has progressed. We are on God 5.0, going to God 6.0.

    God 6.0 is - God the Creator. Our mind tells us that there is a beginning to everything. Science tells that there is a beginning to the Universe. Our mind logically tells us that there is a cause behind everything – science agrees. Why not call that cause God?

    For all of human time, three instinctive notions have been held by humanity as valid. The first is that we each are unique individuals. Second is that we all are connect together in some way with nature. And thirdly that there is a God. Science has proved the first two to be absolutely true. Why not go with the third notion also?

    This God 6.0 created a universe that fostered us – he created a universe with consistent rules that we can begin to understand. We have used those rules to advance our species. The notions propagated by the Christian God 5.0 are bearing fruit. God 6.0 is a natural progression of human thinking.

    Believing in God 6.0, is rational and productive.

     

    Peace --- Art

    Our mind tells us that there is a beginning to everything.

    Not my mind. This is chicken and egg stuff. You think before the beginning there was nothing? The big bang came from absolutely nothing?

    When I was very small, I was perplexed with the idea of beyond: what is beyond the universe? Is there an edge? What is around that? And that….? After a few years I stopped dwelling on it. There wasn’t and answer. Just infinity, backwards and forwards. and endless time. (Is there time? Maybe nothing is all happening at once.)

    God is what we call the unfathomable. We used to sing, “Tell me the stories of Jesus..” That says it all. That’s what they are: stories. Illustrations of right living. Parables made up by wise ancestors. And that Paul guy incorporated all manner of myth for psychological effect.

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    • Replies: @Art
    There wasn’t and answer. Just infinity, backwards and forwards. and endless time. (Is there time? Maybe nothing is all happening at once.)

    RobinG,

    For what it is worth - science says that the universe will die - that all of the universe will come to the same temperature - and when that happens nothing can interact with anything else.

    They consider it the most true thing that they know.

    Peace --- Art
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  • @Art
    Talha,

    My three great intellectual heroes are Jesus, Newton, and Darwin. There are many more, but those three stand out above the rest.

    No question, Jesus was a religious figure. But he also gave us a prescription for living - a philosophy for how to act among ourselves. He prescribed that we act ideally - he gave us a system of work-a-day idealism. Without getting technical, that idealistic system anticipates the science of “entropy and aging” - and how to go about growing ever younger as organizations of humans. When we live with hope, and treat life as sacred, and seek the truth, and love our neighbor as we love ourselves, and forgive the past, and extend grace to our fellow humans - we can grow an ever-newer-younger set of human organizations that can keep us alive longer. Imperfect as it is, that is what Western culture is all about - that is why Western culture has progressed.

    Newton gave us the notion that the movement of things in our universe can be anticipated - that there was rhyme and reason to the workings of the universe. The flow stream of knowledge after him is gigantic. Time can be measured before Jesus and after Jesus. The same for Newton - humanity has blossomed after what he did.

    Darwin’s evolution released humanity from depending on the will of god for everything. He made humanity responsible for its future. After Darwin, our future was up to us. No god was going to come to our rescue. With that said, the “idea of evolution” itself is major intellectual tool to the understanding the how things grow and change.

    Peace --- Art

    [I think you'd recently mentioned that you preferred "NoseytheDuke" and that "NosytheDuke" was just a typo. So all your comments have been changed to the former, and you should use it henceforth.]

    Art, I think that people who believe in a fashion as you and I seem to are called Deist rather than Theist.

    As a fan of Darwin you may also enjoy reading about William Dampier in A Pirate of Exquisite Mind. A truly amazing life as an explorer,naturalist and buccaneer, so much so that Darwin took Dampier’s book along with him on his voyage on the Beagle. Dampier in the Pilbara region of Australia is named after him.

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    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @iffen
    dishonesty, whether deliberate or unconscious.

    I don’t think there is something that could be called unconscious dishonesty.

    As to deliberate dishonesty, it plays out on both sides. People use the Nazi label to castigate their political opponents and “actual Nazis” pretend to be otherwise.

    Clearly people struggle to identify “Nazis” at least as much as they struggle to use “Fascist” with any meaningful content.

    I know that there are some people (shout-out to you Joe Webb) that want to re-habilitate the national socialist label and shed the Nazi opprobrium. It is not going to happen. The NS brand has given way to the generic Nazi label and it cannot be changed. If I can be shown to be in error in this opinion, I will try to make some distinction between the two.

    Holocaust idol is an interesting construction.
    Indeed, and apt in this case.

    How about a little elaboration here. I would like to understand exactly what you mean by combining the terms. As you may know, Nazis are always trying to fiddle with the meaning and significance of the Holocaust.

    I see that one can be an anti-Semite and not be a Nazi; I just don't seem to run across that many.

    Whatever happened to old JW? And Rehmat for that matter? I mean, I don’t mind the lack of internet noise, but I hope they’re OK. Hopefully they didn’t accidentally come across each other and now are in a position not to be able to type right now.

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    • Replies: @iffen
    JW takes a week or two off every now and then, mostly likely to eyeball coeds, I think. He has some interesting knowledge to pass on at times (for example his take on Spencer.)

    Rehmat may have run across Sherm and, well, that wouldn't be good for either of them, or the goats for that matter.

    the lack of internet noise

    I am sure that some here are hoping that I don't try to take up the slack.

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  • @Talha
    Hey Art,

    Thanks for those insights - and I definitely agree, believing in God is quite rational. Otherwise someone would really have to convince me that Leibniz and Decartes were irrational fellows. You seem to be advocating the concept of God as many of the Western philosophers/scientists like the two I mentioned along with people like Newton, etc.

    Peace.

    Talha,

    My three great intellectual heroes are Jesus, Newton, and Darwin. There are many more, but those three stand out above the rest.

    No question, Jesus was a religious figure. But he also gave us a prescription for living – a philosophy for how to act among ourselves. He prescribed that we act ideally – he gave us a system of work-a-day idealism. Without getting technical, that idealistic system anticipates the science of “entropy and aging” – and how to go about growing ever younger as organizations of humans. When we live with hope, and treat life as sacred, and seek the truth, and love our neighbor as we love ourselves, and forgive the past, and extend grace to our fellow humans – we can grow an ever-newer-younger set of human organizations that can keep us alive longer. Imperfect as it is, that is what Western culture is all about – that is why Western culture has progressed.

    Newton gave us the notion that the movement of things in our universe can be anticipated – that there was rhyme and reason to the workings of the universe. The flow stream of knowledge after him is gigantic. Time can be measured before Jesus and after Jesus. The same for Newton – humanity has blossomed after what he did.

    Darwin’s evolution released humanity from depending on the will of god for everything. He made humanity responsible for its future. After Darwin, our future was up to us. No god was going to come to our rescue. With that said, the “idea of evolution” itself is major intellectual tool to the understanding the how things grow and change.

    Peace — Art

    Read More
    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    [I think you'd recently mentioned that you preferred "NoseytheDuke" and that "NosytheDuke" was just a typo. So all your comments have been changed to the former, and you should use it henceforth.]

    Art, I think that people who believe in a fashion as you and I seem to are called Deist rather than Theist.

    As a fan of Darwin you may also enjoy reading about William Dampier in A Pirate of Exquisite Mind. A truly amazing life as an explorer,naturalist and buccaneer, so much so that Darwin took Dampier's book along with him on his voyage on the Beagle. Dampier in the Pilbara region of Australia is named after him.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.