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    I find Cornel West, a black professor, complaining of White Supremacy, which he believes our black President needs to remedy. Obama, he says, is “niggerized.” “A niggerized black person is a black person who is afraid and scared and intimidated when it comes to putting a spotlight on white supremacy and fighting against white supremacy,”...
  • @SFG
    You do know the intermarriage rate's about 50%, right?

    also, jewish intermarriage is called ‘genocide’ by jews

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  • We have White Supremacy, Professor, because for 2500 years we, whites, have produced the best minds on the planet, the greatest flourishing of the arts and sciences ever seen, the most complex and organized societies. We have White Supremacy, whatever exactly it may be, because we have been the earth’s most successful race. No other has come close. Deal with it.

    Exact. But the irony is that the dumbest Whites are the proudest of White achievement while they would probably, in everyday life, make fun and bully the White geniuses who build this civilisation.

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  • To which I would add that Greece is not part of contiguous continental Europe, never was but its beginnings were co-opted by the greater European affiliation. Look at the Greece alleged ‘cesspool’ vis a vis those who treat it like a their neighbour’s stepchild and the attitudes on which it is judged. Again, Greece forgave German debt only to be jacked up by EU austerity. Nobility is a bitch!

    Then look at Egypt! Last time I looked, It is not and never has been part of Europe but it is African, cut it, dice it, slap it and it is still in Africa and there it shall remain. All I gotta say!

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  • @Anonymous
    The problem with white people is that whites may have made the modern world, but what place do whites have in the future?

    Whites are not the smartest race. Ashkenazi Jews are, but they make up only a small percentage of whites and could be considered a separate race that is not at all representative of the average white man. The people who will be doing the taxing mental work of tomorrow will be Asians who have a higher iq than non Jewish whites.

    What about creative work like the arts? Here again Jews shine, but non Jewish whites are not particularly creative. Blacks have shown far more creativity when it comes to the arts than whites.

    Physically, whites cannot compete against blacks at all. In sports and tasks requiring athleticism, blacks outclass whites.

    Whites cannot be counted on to be more numerical than others. The masses in the future will be made up of Latinos and blacks.

    Religion/Spirituality? Ha, whites have become far to cynical to believe in anything.

    I just don't see much of a niche for white people in the future. What are white people going to be the best at in the future? Nothing. So much for being gods.

    The one exception will be internet HBD pundits. Here, whites will dominate because if your not inherently the best at anything the next best thing to do is to try and argue your way into relevance by reliving the glory days when white people actually had skills and culture.

    What about creative work like the arts? Here again Jews shine, but non Jewish whites are not particularly creative. Blacks have shown far more creativity when it comes to the arts than whites.

    Oh dear!

    Shakespeare, Michaelangelo, Dickens, Botticelli, Leonardo Da Vinci, etc etc etc.

    Also,

    It has been speculated that the Egyptian civilisation was a result of a lost civilisation that was destroyed in the flood and then transplanted onto Africa. And yes, they were white!

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  • @Truth

    The white man gives with 1 hand, and takes 3 with the other hands, that’s the problem

     

    When the White Mon first came to our region, we had a herd of cattle, and he had a stack of bibles.

    Twenty years later, he had a herd of cattle, and we had a stack of bibles.

    -Bishop Desmond Tutu
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  • @Jefferson
    "We invented the airplane, the computer, the internet, and tennis shoes."

    Black people invented peanut butter, NOW CAN YOU DIG THAT SUCKAAAAAAA.

    "Now, Cornel, it isn’t that we whites want to be supreme. It is just that we haven’t been able to help it. It isn’t our fault that we produced Newton, Archimedes, Einstein, and all those mutants."

    Black people invented Kanye West who is the greatest Human Being of all time, OF ALL TIME.

    peanut butter is a recipe, not an invention

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  • @Seraphim
    Well, I said that I was not sure whether Fernandez-Armesto said that. It was more of a tongue-in-cheek hyperbole.
    But that the influence of Chinese science and technologies upon European development was not limited just to the "Four Great" is increasingly obvious. The fact that the Chinese did not apply their inventions to kill, maim, rob, enslave and bring misery to more and more people does not reflect their "inferiority" in comparison to the European peoples who used them precisely for that end (not a reflection of any "superiority").

    The fact that the Chinese did not apply their inventions to kill, maim, rob, enslave and bring misery to more and more people does not reflect their “inferiority” in comparison to the European peoples who used them precisely for that end

    What was China doing during the Spanish Golden Age?

    Miao Rebellions

    In the 1500s the Ming dynasty sent ethnic Chinese to settle in the tribal areas of the Hmong and other aboriginal tribes in the southwest. The Ming sent 2000 garrison troops to defeat the Hmong rebels

    An account of the origins of the Hmong in Sichuan says that the Ming Chinese in Guangdong defeated the ancestors of the Hmong, and forcibly relocated them to Sichuan.

    When the Ming began colonizing the south, the classification of the natives began to grow more accurate.

    The Ming Dynasty army almost completely exterminated the Bo minority people in southern China.

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  • @PandaAtWar

    ...They didn’t roam so much beyond their borders. But they were using it on their own people, and that’s a big job given the size of the place... --- nick
     

    The Chinese had the humanity, in contrast to Europeans, to keep their brutality and violence concentrated mainly on their own people,... ---Dipwill
     
    Try this:

    which has more humane factor, or "affective empathy", - you masturbate yourself? or go out rape anything that moves?


    The only reason any of the many world’s peoples never “killed” as much, is because they never got the chance. The will was certainly there, given their behavior, to look at the records throughout Asia, the middle east, Africa. One of the most famous, Tamerlane...
     
    If Tamerlane were ethnic Han Chinese, then the Ethiopians must be ethnic Anglos.

    “which has more humane factor, or “affective empathy”, – you masturbate yourself? or go out rape anything that moves?”

    The point is that the Chinese and how they’ve treated themselves for millenia doesn’t say much in the way of them being inherently more moral or empathetic than Europeans, and that the reason they haven’t expanded outside their borders and done similarly to other people speaks more to some other reason than greater moral foresight, contrary to what white sinophiles or autistic chinese racialists might think.

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  • @Anonymous
    "Asians who have a higher iq than non Jewish whites." Actually, that is a common misconception. IQ varies tremendously among different Asian people. For example, among Han Chinese, the average is 110 but for Phillipinos it is 85. If you lump all these very distinct groups together under the imprecise "Asian" grouping, the Han just by sheer numbers skew the average. Likewise, the IQ of "whites" varies widely. Ashkenazis are white Europeans whether you like it or not, and your desperate attempt to reclassify Ashkenazis as non white is rather pathetic.
    Whites dominate in science, technology, engineering, medicine, the arts. In painting, architecture, sculpture, composing, whites are not only well represented, but they are arguably over represented in anything creative.
    But IQ is of course, not everything.
    White, western culture is under attack but has historically proven itself to be innovative and resilient again and again, and flourishes everywhere, so don't be downhearted. They will continue to dominate, probably for millenia, maybe forever, to all of our benefit. It is not a zero sum game. There is always room for more, for anyone of talent and intelligence whether or not they are white.

    …IQ varies tremendously among different Asian people. For example, among Han Chinese, the average is 110 but for Phillipinos it is 85…

    If that were true,then IQ would vary tremendously among different European people, too. For example, people living north of Med has avg IQ of100, whereas the average people living 20km away in the south of Med, such as Morrocans, Somalians, Ethiopians, Egyptians, etc is only 80-85.

    ——–

    the Ethiopians are more Europeans, the Morrocans are more Spanish, North Africa is more Europe(from geo approximity POV), the Somalians are more Greek, the Iranians or Isrealis are more Germans, the Indians and Pakistanis are more Vikings, Afghanistanis are more Russian, the Saudis are more Italian …

    than

    the Phillipinos are more Han Chinese.

    ——–

    Panda doesn’t know which one of the following is higher, the underlying IQ reflected by the sheer stupidity of the definitions of “Asia” and “Asians” in HBD sphere and in MSM at large ? Or the IQ of a cucumber in room tempreture?

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  • @dcite

    But that the influence of Chinese science and technologies upon European development was not limited just to the “Four Great” is increasingly obvious. The fact that the Chinese did not apply their inventions to kill, maim, rob, enslave and bring misery to more and more people does not reflect their “inferiority” in comparison to the European peoples who used them precisely for that end (not a reflection of any “superiority”).
     
    Sinophiles are out in force on this thread, and that's to be expected considering the subject. It's a button pusher. But really -- the Chinese never so nasty as to actually USE the weaponry they invented? Really? The Chinese devised some of the most diabolically clever tortures to ever squiggle out of a human brain. They didn't roam so much beyond their borders. But they were using it on their own people, and that's a big job given the size of the place.
    The only reason any of the many world's peoples never "killed" as much, is because they never got the chance. The will was certainly there, given their behavior, to look at the records throughout Asia, the middle east, Africa. One of the most famous, Tamerlane, came out of central Asia like a furious demon .. Islam's greatest cities in his path, never fully recovered ... "Timur ordered the massacre of the city's citizens; the death toll is reckoned at between 100,000 and 200,000.[31] An eye-witness counted more than 28 towers constructed of about 1,500 heads each.[32] This has been described as a "systematic use of terror against towns...an integral element of Tamerlane's strategic element" which he viewed as preventing bloodshed by discouraging resistance. His massacres were selective and he spared the artistic and technical (e.g. engineers) elites.[31]made a mountain a thousand feet high, out of the skulls"

    So enough of this shite about yellow, brown, black, red people not "killing." They did. And the one reason there are so many of the aforementioned colors around is largely due to the white man.

    …They didn’t roam so much beyond their borders. But they were using it on their own people, and that’s a big job given the size of the place… — nick

    The Chinese had the humanity, in contrast to Europeans, to keep their brutality and violence concentrated mainly on their own people,… —Dipwill

    Try this:

    which has more humane factor, or “affective empathy”, – you masturbate yourself? or go out rape anything that moves?

    The only reason any of the many world’s peoples never “killed” as much, is because they never got the chance. The will was certainly there, given their behavior, to look at the records throughout Asia, the middle east, Africa. One of the most famous, Tamerlane…

    If Tamerlane were ethnic Han Chinese, then the Ethiopians must be ethnic Anglos.

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    • Replies: @Dipwill
    "which has more humane factor, or “affective empathy”, – you masturbate yourself? or go out rape anything that moves?"

    The point is that the Chinese and how they've treated themselves for millenia doesn't say much in the way of them being inherently more moral or empathetic than Europeans, and that the reason they haven't expanded outside their borders and done similarly to other people speaks more to some other reason than greater moral foresight, contrary to what white sinophiles or autistic chinese racialists might think.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @dcite

    But that the influence of Chinese science and technologies upon European development was not limited just to the “Four Great” is increasingly obvious. The fact that the Chinese did not apply their inventions to kill, maim, rob, enslave and bring misery to more and more people does not reflect their “inferiority” in comparison to the European peoples who used them precisely for that end (not a reflection of any “superiority”).
     
    Sinophiles are out in force on this thread, and that's to be expected considering the subject. It's a button pusher. But really -- the Chinese never so nasty as to actually USE the weaponry they invented? Really? The Chinese devised some of the most diabolically clever tortures to ever squiggle out of a human brain. They didn't roam so much beyond their borders. But they were using it on their own people, and that's a big job given the size of the place.
    The only reason any of the many world's peoples never "killed" as much, is because they never got the chance. The will was certainly there, given their behavior, to look at the records throughout Asia, the middle east, Africa. One of the most famous, Tamerlane, came out of central Asia like a furious demon .. Islam's greatest cities in his path, never fully recovered ... "Timur ordered the massacre of the city's citizens; the death toll is reckoned at between 100,000 and 200,000.[31] An eye-witness counted more than 28 towers constructed of about 1,500 heads each.[32] This has been described as a "systematic use of terror against towns...an integral element of Tamerlane's strategic element" which he viewed as preventing bloodshed by discouraging resistance. His massacres were selective and he spared the artistic and technical (e.g. engineers) elites.[31]made a mountain a thousand feet high, out of the skulls"

    So enough of this shite about yellow, brown, black, red people not "killing." They did. And the one reason there are so many of the aforementioned colors around is largely due to the white man.

    @The Chinese devised some of the most diabolically clever tortures

    Maybe they did invent everything after all!

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  • @Anonymous
    "Asians who have a higher iq than non Jewish whites." Actually, that is a common misconception. IQ varies tremendously among different Asian people. For example, among Han Chinese, the average is 110 but for Phillipinos it is 85. If you lump all these very distinct groups together under the imprecise "Asian" grouping, the Han just by sheer numbers skew the average. Likewise, the IQ of "whites" varies widely. Ashkenazis are white Europeans whether you like it or not, and your desperate attempt to reclassify Ashkenazis as non white is rather pathetic.
    Whites dominate in science, technology, engineering, medicine, the arts. In painting, architecture, sculpture, composing, whites are not only well represented, but they are arguably over represented in anything creative.
    But IQ is of course, not everything.
    White, western culture is under attack but has historically proven itself to be innovative and resilient again and again, and flourishes everywhere, so don't be downhearted. They will continue to dominate, probably for millenia, maybe forever, to all of our benefit. It is not a zero sum game. There is always room for more, for anyone of talent and intelligence whether or not they are white.

    “For example, among Han Chinese, the average is 110 but for Phillipinos it is 85.”

    Both of those figures are absurd, especially the Chinese being 110. I’ll never stop being amazed by the bizarre IQ figures people in these discussions seem to pull out of thin air/twisted disseminations of Lynn’s schizophrenic figures, but I think a lot of that comes down to how we’ve had hacks/frauds like Richard Lynn leading the way and countless people who take him seriously and do everything they can to validate him.

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  • Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    The problem with white people is that whites may have made the modern world, but what place do whites have in the future?

    Whites are not the smartest race. Ashkenazi Jews are, but they make up only a small percentage of whites and could be considered a separate race that is not at all representative of the average white man. The people who will be doing the taxing mental work of tomorrow will be Asians who have a higher iq than non Jewish whites.

    What about creative work like the arts? Here again Jews shine, but non Jewish whites are not particularly creative. Blacks have shown far more creativity when it comes to the arts than whites.

    Physically, whites cannot compete against blacks at all. In sports and tasks requiring athleticism, blacks outclass whites.

    Whites cannot be counted on to be more numerical than others. The masses in the future will be made up of Latinos and blacks.

    Religion/Spirituality? Ha, whites have become far to cynical to believe in anything.

    I just don't see much of a niche for white people in the future. What are white people going to be the best at in the future? Nothing. So much for being gods.

    The one exception will be internet HBD pundits. Here, whites will dominate because if your not inherently the best at anything the next best thing to do is to try and argue your way into relevance by reliving the glory days when white people actually had skills and culture.

    “Asians who have a higher iq than non Jewish whites.” Actually, that is a common misconception. IQ varies tremendously among different Asian people. For example, among Han Chinese, the average is 110 but for Phillipinos it is 85. If you lump all these very distinct groups together under the imprecise “Asian” grouping, the Han just by sheer numbers skew the average. Likewise, the IQ of “whites” varies widely. Ashkenazis are white Europeans whether you like it or not, and your desperate attempt to reclassify Ashkenazis as non white is rather pathetic.
    Whites dominate in science, technology, engineering, medicine, the arts. In painting, architecture, sculpture, composing, whites are not only well represented, but they are arguably over represented in anything creative.
    But IQ is of course, not everything.
    White, western culture is under attack but has historically proven itself to be innovative and resilient again and again, and flourishes everywhere, so don’t be downhearted. They will continue to dominate, probably for millenia, maybe forever, to all of our benefit. It is not a zero sum game. There is always room for more, for anyone of talent and intelligence whether or not they are white.

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    • Replies: @Dipwill
    "For example, among Han Chinese, the average is 110 but for Phillipinos it is 85."

    Both of those figures are absurd, especially the Chinese being 110. I'll never stop being amazed by the bizarre IQ figures people in these discussions seem to pull out of thin air/twisted disseminations of Lynn's schizophrenic figures, but I think a lot of that comes down to how we've had hacks/frauds like Richard Lynn leading the way and countless people who take him seriously and do everything they can to validate him.
    , @PandaAtWar

    ...IQ varies tremendously among different Asian people. For example, among Han Chinese, the average is 110 but for Phillipinos it is 85...
     
    If that were true,then IQ would vary tremendously among different European people, too. For example, people living north of Med has avg IQ of100, whereas the average people living 20km away in the south of Med, such as Morrocans, Somalians, Ethiopians, Egyptians, etc is only 80-85.

    --------

    the Ethiopians are more Europeans, the Morrocans are more Spanish, North Africa is more Europe(from geo approximity POV), the Somalians are more Greek, the Iranians or Isrealis are more Germans, the Indians and Pakistanis are more Vikings, Afghanistanis are more Russian, the Saudis are more Italian ...

    than

    the Phillipinos are more Han Chinese.

    --------

    Panda doesn't know which one of the following is higher, the underlying IQ reflected by the sheer stupidity of the definitions of "Asia" and "Asians" in HBD sphere and in MSM at large ? Or the IQ of a cucumber in room tempreture?

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  • @Seraphim
    Well, I said that I was not sure whether Fernandez-Armesto said that. It was more of a tongue-in-cheek hyperbole.
    But that the influence of Chinese science and technologies upon European development was not limited just to the "Four Great" is increasingly obvious. The fact that the Chinese did not apply their inventions to kill, maim, rob, enslave and bring misery to more and more people does not reflect their "inferiority" in comparison to the European peoples who used them precisely for that end (not a reflection of any "superiority").

    “The fact that the Chinese did not apply their inventions to kill, maim, rob, enslave and bring misery to more and more people does not reflect their “inferiority” in comparison to the European peoples who used them precisely for that end (not a reflection of any “superiority”).”

    The Chinese had the humanity, in contrast to Europeans, to keep their brutality and violence concentrated mainly on their own people, in the case of the civil wars and crazed rulers (with Mao Zedong being the most recent in a relatively long list ) that have killed countless millions throughout their history.

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  • @Seraphim
    Well, I said that I was not sure whether Fernandez-Armesto said that. It was more of a tongue-in-cheek hyperbole.
    But that the influence of Chinese science and technologies upon European development was not limited just to the "Four Great" is increasingly obvious. The fact that the Chinese did not apply their inventions to kill, maim, rob, enslave and bring misery to more and more people does not reflect their "inferiority" in comparison to the European peoples who used them precisely for that end (not a reflection of any "superiority").

    But that the influence of Chinese science and technologies upon European development was not limited just to the “Four Great” is increasingly obvious. The fact that the Chinese did not apply their inventions to kill, maim, rob, enslave and bring misery to more and more people does not reflect their “inferiority” in comparison to the European peoples who used them precisely for that end (not a reflection of any “superiority”).

    Sinophiles are out in force on this thread, and that’s to be expected considering the subject. It’s a button pusher. But really — the Chinese never so nasty as to actually USE the weaponry they invented? Really? The Chinese devised some of the most diabolically clever tortures to ever squiggle out of a human brain. They didn’t roam so much beyond their borders. But they were using it on their own people, and that’s a big job given the size of the place.
    The only reason any of the many world’s peoples never “killed” as much, is because they never got the chance. The will was certainly there, given their behavior, to look at the records throughout Asia, the middle east, Africa. One of the most famous, Tamerlane, came out of central Asia like a furious demon .. Islam’s greatest cities in his path, never fully recovered … “Timur ordered the massacre of the city’s citizens; the death toll is reckoned at between 100,000 and 200,000.[31] An eye-witness counted more than 28 towers constructed of about 1,500 heads each.[32] This has been described as a “systematic use of terror against towns…an integral element of Tamerlane’s strategic element” which he viewed as preventing bloodshed by discouraging resistance. His massacres were selective and he spared the artistic and technical (e.g. engineers) elites.[31]made a mountain a thousand feet high, out of the skulls”

    So enough of this shite about yellow, brown, black, red people not “killing.” They did. And the one reason there are so many of the aforementioned colors around is largely due to the white man.

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    • Replies: @Seraphim
    @The Chinese devised some of the most diabolically clever tortures

    Maybe they did invent everything after all!

    , @PandaAtWar

    ...They didn’t roam so much beyond their borders. But they were using it on their own people, and that’s a big job given the size of the place... --- nick
     

    The Chinese had the humanity, in contrast to Europeans, to keep their brutality and violence concentrated mainly on their own people,... ---Dipwill
     
    Try this:

    which has more humane factor, or "affective empathy", - you masturbate yourself? or go out rape anything that moves?


    The only reason any of the many world’s peoples never “killed” as much, is because they never got the chance. The will was certainly there, given their behavior, to look at the records throughout Asia, the middle east, Africa. One of the most famous, Tamerlane...
     
    If Tamerlane were ethnic Han Chinese, then the Ethiopians must be ethnic Anglos.
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  • @jeppo
    There's no doubt that whites are the world's most successful race, but it's mainly a subset of them, Northern Europeans or Teutonics, that truly dominate the modern world.

    http://thosewhocansee.blogspot.fr/2014/11/theres-something-about-teutonics.html

    There's a whole whack of national rankings at that link that I believe prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that Northern Europeans have created the most successful societies on Earth by far, not only compared to the non-white world, but compared to Southern and Eastern Europe as well.

    To that mountain of evidence I would add the Human Development Index, which in the 2014 rankings the top 8 nations were in Northern Europe or one of its overseas offshoots, and all 18 Northern European nations finished in the top 24.

    As for Nobel Prizes, Northern European nations have won 760 of them, compared to only 297 for the entire rest of the world combined. That is, 8% of the world's population have won 72% of the Nobel Prizes, and if we eliminate the 'fluff' prizes like Peace and Literature, then Northern Euros have probably won an even higher percentage of prizes in the hard sciences.

    Some individuals are counted for more than one nation, like Marie Curie, who won the 1903 Physics Prize and is counted for both Poland and France (in Eastern and Southern Europe respectively). Of course not all the Northern European winners were ethnic 'Teutonics'. Many were Jews. But they were all citizens of-, working in-, and under the auspices of the Northern European nations.

    In terms of the world's most livable cities, the top ten listed by Mercer's are all in Northern Europe or its overseas offshoots, as are the top ten selected by the Economist Intelligence Unit. Of the top 25 selected by Monocle Magazine, 16 are Northern European, including 10 of the top 11.

    I could go on, but you get the idea. So when Fred Reed talks about White Supremacy, what he actually means is Nordic/Germanic/Teutonic/Northwestern European/Northern European Supremacy.

    Nicola Tesla, probably the most brilliant person to ever live, was Serbian. The ancient Romans and Greeks (and please, no shite about Greeks being non-white; take a look at how the represented themselves on vases, and in sculpture) were not northerners, despite an awful lot of early Caesers being described as blue or gray eyed.
    If I say “there have been plenty of inventors from Continental Europe” I risk sounding like the black commenter who asserted “there have been countless black inventors. Too many to count.” I suggested he try. He got angry.

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  • Is this guy joking or what? I bet the next thing he says is… Well, I DID like Diana Ross and the Supremes

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  • @Seraphim
    Well, I said that I was not sure whether Fernandez-Armesto said that. It was more of a tongue-in-cheek hyperbole.
    But that the influence of Chinese science and technologies upon European development was not limited just to the "Four Great" is increasingly obvious. The fact that the Chinese did not apply their inventions to kill, maim, rob, enslave and bring misery to more and more people does not reflect their "inferiority" in comparison to the European peoples who used them precisely for that end (not a reflection of any "superiority").

    My bad, I overlooked it. Actually I think it’s a very good point that needs to be raised to Peter Frost’s “affective empathy” here:

    http://www.unz.com/pfrost/affective-empathy-an-evolutionary-mistake/

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  • @PandaAtWar
    Panda is afraid to say that Ron and Mark have a point there. Felipe Fernandez-Armesto was very wrong by claiming that. From mid 19th century on , or even slightly earlier, the Europeans were posed to take the baton of human civilisation from imperial China to the next level that has proved to be so advanced that have left China, let alone the rest of the world, almost completely irrelevent in the process until most recently...so, to some extend Fred Reed also has a point there.

    However Panda also does agree that the current western mainstream historians, etc, by and large, don't have some decent clue (if some know, they just keep quiet) of how ridiculously advanced China used to be technologically when they mention the Greeko/Romans and Qin/Han China in the same breath.

    Well, I said that I was not sure whether Fernandez-Armesto said that. It was more of a tongue-in-cheek hyperbole.
    But that the influence of Chinese science and technologies upon European development was not limited just to the “Four Great” is increasingly obvious. The fact that the Chinese did not apply their inventions to kill, maim, rob, enslave and bring misery to more and more people does not reflect their “inferiority” in comparison to the European peoples who used them precisely for that end (not a reflection of any “superiority”).

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    • Replies: @PandaAtWar
    My bad, I overlooked it. Actually I think it's a very good point that needs to be raised to Peter Frost's "affective empathy" here:

    http://www.unz.com/pfrost/affective-empathy-an-evolutionary-mistake/
    , @dcite

    But that the influence of Chinese science and technologies upon European development was not limited just to the “Four Great” is increasingly obvious. The fact that the Chinese did not apply their inventions to kill, maim, rob, enslave and bring misery to more and more people does not reflect their “inferiority” in comparison to the European peoples who used them precisely for that end (not a reflection of any “superiority”).
     
    Sinophiles are out in force on this thread, and that's to be expected considering the subject. It's a button pusher. But really -- the Chinese never so nasty as to actually USE the weaponry they invented? Really? The Chinese devised some of the most diabolically clever tortures to ever squiggle out of a human brain. They didn't roam so much beyond their borders. But they were using it on their own people, and that's a big job given the size of the place.
    The only reason any of the many world's peoples never "killed" as much, is because they never got the chance. The will was certainly there, given their behavior, to look at the records throughout Asia, the middle east, Africa. One of the most famous, Tamerlane, came out of central Asia like a furious demon .. Islam's greatest cities in his path, never fully recovered ... "Timur ordered the massacre of the city's citizens; the death toll is reckoned at between 100,000 and 200,000.[31] An eye-witness counted more than 28 towers constructed of about 1,500 heads each.[32] This has been described as a "systematic use of terror against towns...an integral element of Tamerlane's strategic element" which he viewed as preventing bloodshed by discouraging resistance. His massacres were selective and he spared the artistic and technical (e.g. engineers) elites.[31]made a mountain a thousand feet high, out of the skulls"

    So enough of this shite about yellow, brown, black, red people not "killing." They did. And the one reason there are so many of the aforementioned colors around is largely due to the white man.

    , @Dipwill
    "The fact that the Chinese did not apply their inventions to kill, maim, rob, enslave and bring misery to more and more people does not reflect their “inferiority” in comparison to the European peoples who used them precisely for that end (not a reflection of any “superiority”)."

    The Chinese had the humanity, in contrast to Europeans, to keep their brutality and violence concentrated mainly on their own people, in the case of the civil wars and crazed rulers (with Mao Zedong being the most recent in a relatively long list ) that have killed countless millions throughout their history.
    , @Hippopotamusdrome

    The fact that the Chinese did not apply their inventions to kill, maim, rob, enslave and bring misery to more and more people does not reflect their “inferiority” in comparison to the European peoples who used them precisely for that end
     
    What was China doing during the Spanish Golden Age?


    Miao Rebellions

    In the 1500s the Ming dynasty sent ethnic Chinese to settle in the tribal areas of the Hmong and other aboriginal tribes in the southwest. The Ming sent 2000 garrison troops to defeat the Hmong rebels
    ...
    An account of the origins of the Hmong in Sichuan says that the Ming Chinese in Guangdong defeated the ancestors of the Hmong, and forcibly relocated them to Sichuan.
    ...
    When the Ming began colonizing the south, the classification of the natives began to grow more accurate.
    ...
    The Ming Dynasty army almost completely exterminated the Bo minority people in southern China.

     

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @MarkinLA
    The only reason computers use radix 2 arithmetic is because tubes and transistors are basically switches. There is no great advantage to a base 2 system over a base 10 or base 16 system. If somebody could have a memory cell with 16 states and circuitry that could add each base 16 number in the same time as they could do the adding of the base 2 cell base 2 would be obsolete for the simple reason that the amount of memory storage would increase by a factor of 8 and the speed of calculations increase by a factor of 4.

    That’s a correct point.

    The Chinese just can’t claim to have invented modern computer’s binary system by I-Ching, as it’s just waaaay too far fetched.

    Otherwise, the mordern “Indians” would have more “proofs” that the anceint “Indians” invented “0″ , which, in Panda’s estimation, was more likely an invention by the chimpanzees, both as a number and as a holding place in calculation. ROFL

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  • @Hippopotamusdrome

    The draw weight of the 6 dan leg-pulled Qin crossbow was about 400 pounds. Considering the strongest English longbow
     
    Agincourt had Genoese crossbowmen, but the longbow won out due to higher rate of fire.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------


    The Qin Dynasty army would have easily made mincemeat out of Roman legions. The draw weight of the 6 dan leg-pulled Qin crossbow was about 400 pounds.
     
    Then again, theres:

    Scorpio
    The scorpio or scorpion was a type of Roman artillery piece.
    ...
    This catapult used a system of torsion springs to propel the bolts.
    ...
    During the Roman Republic and early empire, sixty scorpiones per legion was the standard, or one for every centuria.
    ...
    In this case, there are sixty scorpiones present which can fire up to 240 bolts per minute at the enemy army. The weight and speed of a bolt was sufficient to pierce enemy shields

     

    --------------------------------------------------------------

    According to Adam Smith in 1776, China was richer and technologically more advanced than Europe.
     
    By this point, we were circumnavigating the globe on a regular basis, and making accurate maps of the world: James Cook. Isaac Newton and Blaise Pascal was a hundred years ago. The telescope and microscope were used for more than a hundred years.

    English lowbow? Really? ROFLAMO.

    Don’t let anyone fool you, but the Chinese repeated crossbow – essentially a semi-automatics machine gun – was arguablely the single deadliest soldier weapon in terms of kill-power in the entire human warfare history, period, until the emergence of modern rifle in the mid 19th century AND the refinement of it.

    And you can forget about attempting comparing Alexander Vs Qin, or Rome Vs Han, in term of sheer sophitication of military technologies, strategic/tratical military powess , and the massive logistics and underlying economies behind at their disposal . It’s not even funny. There was a very good and logical reason for the emmergence of guys like Sun Tzi, Sun Wu in China after all.

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    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Hippopotamusdrome

    What is amazing, however, is the relative lack of innovations and creativities on the part of the ... for 1,200 friggin years from 6th century to roughly 18th century. ... So called European inventions were nothing but copies, adaptations of original inventions of other civilizations such as the Chinese, and some from Islamic, etc.
     
    We were just giving everyone else a sporting chance by giving them a thousand year head start to create a first world society. Even with the handicap, we still won and now we get to hear everyone whine about third world poverty and inequality because we bettered ourselves and made a contrast.

    In the same vein of logic of yours, Panda could easily argue for the Han Chinese for the next 1,000 years. Panda is sure that you would have agreed? LoL

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  • @The most deplorable one

    The Han Chinese invented the cannon, the gun. the bomb, the land mine, the sea mine, the hand grenade, the rocket, the poison gas, the multi-stage rocket…
     
    Ahhh. I suspect you have been locked up in your basement masturbating too much.

    Hint. Cannons were such a game changing invention that they would have made the Chinese invincible ...

    Hey, I have seen those claimed pictures of multi-stage rockets. They are pathetic. Also, playing around with mixtures of saltpeter, sulphur, charcoal and other substances might impress the ignorant but they do not impress people who know what gunpowder really is.

    Your suspection is wrong, because it is arguablely based on your internet hard porn routine ROFL

    And Hint: you are partially right that “Cannons were such a game changing invention that they would have made the Chinese invincible …” China was, until the nomads (the Mongols mainly) stole the know-how and transferred it to the Europeans…

    …but before that happended, you can only imagine the facial expressions of the Mongols and the Europeans when they first met this extraterrestrial -level technologies of the Han Chinese in the battlefields when we fired hand grenades, rockets, bombs and whatsayyou mystical woo-woos in tandem, followed by a good round or 2 chemical “Ali” poison gas…for those who just happened to forget to run for their lives, they must have stood there still with draws open and eyeballs crossed quite like the first 10 mins of Will Smith in the Indenpendecne Day, thinking that the Chinese must be the darn Gods the way Fred Reed feels, right? ROFL

    And yes, the pictures of the first prototype multi-stage rockets Han Chinese invented are somewaht pathetic, as pathetic as how Wright brothers’ first airplane would look like – even my neighbour’s 12-yrs-old could have drawn a better one. So?

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  • @Seraphim
    We may soon find out that the Chinese have invented everything. We may find out, as a historian put it (I think that it was Felipe Fernandez-Armesto, but I can't find the quotation), that the History of Mankind is just a chapter of Chinese History. So much for the delusional "Western Supremacy". The future Chinese archaeologists and anthropologists would write learned studies about the anomaly of the marginal cultures of the Western tip of Eurasia and of the Atlantic Islands.

    Panda is afraid to say that Ron and Mark have a point there. Felipe Fernandez-Armesto was very wrong by claiming that. From mid 19th century on , or even slightly earlier, the Europeans were posed to take the baton of human civilisation from imperial China to the next level that has proved to be so advanced that have left China, let alone the rest of the world, almost completely irrelevent in the process until most recently…so, to some extend Fred Reed also has a point there.

    However Panda also does agree that the current western mainstream historians, etc, by and large, don’t have some decent clue (if some know, they just keep quiet) of how ridiculously advanced China used to be technologically when they mention the Greeko/Romans and Qin/Han China in the same breath.

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    • Replies: @Seraphim
    Well, I said that I was not sure whether Fernandez-Armesto said that. It was more of a tongue-in-cheek hyperbole.
    But that the influence of Chinese science and technologies upon European development was not limited just to the "Four Great" is increasingly obvious. The fact that the Chinese did not apply their inventions to kill, maim, rob, enslave and bring misery to more and more people does not reflect their "inferiority" in comparison to the European peoples who used them precisely for that end (not a reflection of any "superiority").
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Seraphim
    @ Chinese military technology.

    Yes, indeed, western "historians" always dismissed out of hand the invention of gun powder. "And what did they do with it? Fire works. They've been incapable to use it for greater purposes", was a typical response. Now, even that has gone in smoke.

    Thank you for the link. Food for thought.

    What about Leibniz inspired by the I Ching in the "invention" of binary arithmetic, the foundation of all computer systems? He wrote in 1703 a "Explanation of the Binary Arithmetic, which uses only the characters 1 and 0, with some remarks on its usefulness, and on the light it throws on the ancient Chinese figures of Fu Xi".

    The only reason computers use radix 2 arithmetic is because tubes and transistors are basically switches. There is no great advantage to a base 2 system over a base 10 or base 16 system. If somebody could have a memory cell with 16 states and circuitry that could add each base 16 number in the same time as they could do the adding of the base 2 cell base 2 would be obsolete for the simple reason that the amount of memory storage would increase by a factor of 8 and the speed of calculations increase by a factor of 4.

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    • Replies: @PandaAtWar
    That's a correct point.

    The Chinese just can't claim to have invented modern computer's binary system by I-Ching, as it's just waaaay too far fetched.

    Otherwise, the mordern "Indians" would have more "proofs" that the anceint "Indians" invented "0" , which, in Panda's estimation, was more likely an invention by the chimpanzees, both as a number and as a holding place in calculation. ROFL
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @PandaAtWar
    People like you should do some research before making unfounded fantasy statements on Imperial China.

    The ancient China in the Spring and Autumn Period(770bc-476bc) and Warring States Period(475bc-221bc) thrived with great cultural and intellectual blossoming which was the result of the Hundred Schools of Thought. Some of the most outstanding philosophers and intellectuals such as Confucius, Lao zi, Zhang zi, Mo zi, Sun zi, Menfucious came from this time period. The ancient China was second to none in technology, academic achievements.

    The following Qin and Han dynasties were far ahead of both Greek and Roman civilizations in technologies, especially in military technologies and tactics, the ancient China was way ahead of Europe.

    The Qin Dynasty army would have easily made mincemeat out of Roman legions. The draw weight of the 6 dan leg-pulled Qin crossbow was about 400 pounds. Considering the strongest English longbow which had a draw weight of 160 pounds, could penetrate metal armour, the Qin crossbow bolts would have had no problem penetrating Roman shield and armour at once, plus they also had much more powerful winch-operated crossbows.. During the Warring State period, Qin soldiers were extremely well-trained and battle-hardy. The Qin Empire also had tactics unlike the Alexander de Great or the Romans. In their formation the Chinese at that time divided men into 5-men squads. They had two halberds, 2 spears and 1 long sword commander. The 2 halberdiers in front would hook the enemy's weapon and shield and swing it aside. The spearman would then skewer the enemy. This kind of fighting style would have decimated Alexander's army. Chinese also had Sarissas, in fact they were placed on all flanks except the front. Not to mention the crossbow itself would have decimated the pikemen.

    When you compare technologies overall between Ancient China (Qin, Han Tang, Song etc) and Greco-Roman world, there is little doubt China was WAY ahead. The comparison between two is not even funny!

    Han dynasty was much more powerful than Roman empire even regardless of time frames (i.e. peaks and lows). In terms of agriculture, metallurgy, ceramic, shipbuilding, textile, military technologies to name a few, Han Dynasty was so advanced that in many of these technologies Europe remained behind China until the Eve of the Industrial Revolution in the 19th century – think about that!. In terms of scholarship and medicine though, the achievements of both civilization were roughly the same though for the Han China and Roman Empire.


    Ancient Chinese also invented the military sphere more than 100 years before the Greeks. The Chinese were the first one who observed the sunspots. In technology, the ancient Chinese were highly developed. In Greco-Roman times, The Chinese invented compass( at this time only for land navigation),paper, cast iron, high-grade steel- making using cast iron, differential gear. These are only a few of the Chinese inventions. The Greeks and Romans did not have these things.


    The Han Chinese invented the cannon, the gun. the bomb, the land mine, the sea mine, the hand grenade, the rocket, the poison gas, the multi-stage rocket… all these things were later further developed by Europeans. Can you imagine the modern military without these Chinese inventions? As a matter of fact, Ming dynasty was the first modern gunpowder-weapon empire in the human history. Since you can’t read Chinese, for the related info in English, you can find all of these facts in SCIENCE AND CIVILIZATION IN CHINA by JOSEPH NEEDHAM and THE GENIUS OF CHINA by ROBERT TEMPLE. You will then find out how technologically advanced China was.


    In a way, ancient China was even much more democratic, yes, democratic, than your primtive "Greek Democracy" at a time. It is because of the civil examination system which was open to almost every male in imperial China, regardless of his social or financial status. This kind of highly developed social system couldn’t be found in Europe until quasi-modern age more than 1,500 years later.


    Contrary to popular myth, for a long long time Imperial China was, a very militaristic empire (that’s part of “bad” thing that Iingoistic Japan, a vassal and loyal disciple of Imperial China of "Anything-Chinese" for a good part of history, wholesale-copied from the Imperial China btw, which was particularly bitter when Japan turned against China at her weakest point in history - WW2 using the things that learned from China - yet this is just another point for another time), even though China generally believed in civilian supremacy. For the last 3000 years there has been continuous warfare in China.. This is one of the main reasons why we do not see today a lot of sophysticated ancient Chinese wooden buildings (go check Chinese ancient archtecture in Wiki) . The Mongol invasions, specially, destroyed a lot of them.


    There is a also misconception that China closed itself to the outside from the 16th century thru the 18th century. But this is not true.As a matter of fact there was a lot of trade between China and Europe. According to an economy-historian Andre Gunder Frank, about 40% of silver mined in the Americas ended up in China, because of the Europe's insatiable appetite for Chinese silk, porcelain silk. Also the Jesuits transferred a lot of advanced Chinese technologies to Europe.


    Throughout Ming and Qing dynasties, China integrated some advanced technologies from Europe through the Jesuits. But the Jesuits also transferred a lot more of advanced Chinese technologies to Europe. According to Adam Smith in 1776, China was richer and technologically more advanced than Europe. The Industrial Revolution made all the difference for both Europe and China. China fell behind in the 19th century, because it missed out on the Industrial Revolution.

    Also the Jesuits transferred some advanced European technologies such as mechanical clock - making and cannon- making to China. But China was ahead of Europe in many other technologies such as agricultural, metallurgical, shipbuilding, textile, ceramic, to name a few. In military technology, Europe was ahead of China in cannon and musket -making, but China was ahead in rocket and bomb- making technologies at the end of the18th century. Until the coming of the breach-loading rifle in the middle of the 19th century, the composite bow was far superior to the European musket in range and rate of fire.


    What is amazing, however, is the relative lack of innovations and creativities on the part of the Europeans , or the "Gods" in terminology of Fred, for 1,200 friggin years from 6th century to roughly 18th century. This is roughly the time period between the collapse Roman Empire and the Industrial Revolution. So called European inventions were nothing but copies, adaptations of original inventions of other civilizations such as the Chinese, and some from Islamic, etc. According to your Adam Smith in 1776, China was the richest and technologically most advanced country in the world at a time. And you probably will even try to deny that as well. ROFL.

    What is amazing, however, is the relative lack of innovations and creativities on the part of the … for 1,200 friggin years from 6th century to roughly 18th century. … So called European inventions were nothing but copies, adaptations of original inventions of other civilizations such as the Chinese, and some from Islamic, etc.

    We were just giving everyone else a sporting chance by giving them a thousand year head start to create a first world society. Even with the handicap, we still won and now we get to hear everyone whine about third world poverty and inequality because we bettered ourselves and made a contrast.

    Read More
    • Replies: @PandaAtWar
    In the same vein of logic of yours, Panda could easily argue for the Han Chinese for the next 1,000 years. Panda is sure that you would have agreed? LoL
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @PandaAtWar
    People like you should do some research before making unfounded fantasy statements on Imperial China.

    The ancient China in the Spring and Autumn Period(770bc-476bc) and Warring States Period(475bc-221bc) thrived with great cultural and intellectual blossoming which was the result of the Hundred Schools of Thought. Some of the most outstanding philosophers and intellectuals such as Confucius, Lao zi, Zhang zi, Mo zi, Sun zi, Menfucious came from this time period. The ancient China was second to none in technology, academic achievements.

    The following Qin and Han dynasties were far ahead of both Greek and Roman civilizations in technologies, especially in military technologies and tactics, the ancient China was way ahead of Europe.

    The Qin Dynasty army would have easily made mincemeat out of Roman legions. The draw weight of the 6 dan leg-pulled Qin crossbow was about 400 pounds. Considering the strongest English longbow which had a draw weight of 160 pounds, could penetrate metal armour, the Qin crossbow bolts would have had no problem penetrating Roman shield and armour at once, plus they also had much more powerful winch-operated crossbows.. During the Warring State period, Qin soldiers were extremely well-trained and battle-hardy. The Qin Empire also had tactics unlike the Alexander de Great or the Romans. In their formation the Chinese at that time divided men into 5-men squads. They had two halberds, 2 spears and 1 long sword commander. The 2 halberdiers in front would hook the enemy's weapon and shield and swing it aside. The spearman would then skewer the enemy. This kind of fighting style would have decimated Alexander's army. Chinese also had Sarissas, in fact they were placed on all flanks except the front. Not to mention the crossbow itself would have decimated the pikemen.

    When you compare technologies overall between Ancient China (Qin, Han Tang, Song etc) and Greco-Roman world, there is little doubt China was WAY ahead. The comparison between two is not even funny!

    Han dynasty was much more powerful than Roman empire even regardless of time frames (i.e. peaks and lows). In terms of agriculture, metallurgy, ceramic, shipbuilding, textile, military technologies to name a few, Han Dynasty was so advanced that in many of these technologies Europe remained behind China until the Eve of the Industrial Revolution in the 19th century – think about that!. In terms of scholarship and medicine though, the achievements of both civilization were roughly the same though for the Han China and Roman Empire.


    Ancient Chinese also invented the military sphere more than 100 years before the Greeks. The Chinese were the first one who observed the sunspots. In technology, the ancient Chinese were highly developed. In Greco-Roman times, The Chinese invented compass( at this time only for land navigation),paper, cast iron, high-grade steel- making using cast iron, differential gear. These are only a few of the Chinese inventions. The Greeks and Romans did not have these things.


    The Han Chinese invented the cannon, the gun. the bomb, the land mine, the sea mine, the hand grenade, the rocket, the poison gas, the multi-stage rocket… all these things were later further developed by Europeans. Can you imagine the modern military without these Chinese inventions? As a matter of fact, Ming dynasty was the first modern gunpowder-weapon empire in the human history. Since you can’t read Chinese, for the related info in English, you can find all of these facts in SCIENCE AND CIVILIZATION IN CHINA by JOSEPH NEEDHAM and THE GENIUS OF CHINA by ROBERT TEMPLE. You will then find out how technologically advanced China was.


    In a way, ancient China was even much more democratic, yes, democratic, than your primtive "Greek Democracy" at a time. It is because of the civil examination system which was open to almost every male in imperial China, regardless of his social or financial status. This kind of highly developed social system couldn’t be found in Europe until quasi-modern age more than 1,500 years later.


    Contrary to popular myth, for a long long time Imperial China was, a very militaristic empire (that’s part of “bad” thing that Iingoistic Japan, a vassal and loyal disciple of Imperial China of "Anything-Chinese" for a good part of history, wholesale-copied from the Imperial China btw, which was particularly bitter when Japan turned against China at her weakest point in history - WW2 using the things that learned from China - yet this is just another point for another time), even though China generally believed in civilian supremacy. For the last 3000 years there has been continuous warfare in China.. This is one of the main reasons why we do not see today a lot of sophysticated ancient Chinese wooden buildings (go check Chinese ancient archtecture in Wiki) . The Mongol invasions, specially, destroyed a lot of them.


    There is a also misconception that China closed itself to the outside from the 16th century thru the 18th century. But this is not true.As a matter of fact there was a lot of trade between China and Europe. According to an economy-historian Andre Gunder Frank, about 40% of silver mined in the Americas ended up in China, because of the Europe's insatiable appetite for Chinese silk, porcelain silk. Also the Jesuits transferred a lot of advanced Chinese technologies to Europe.


    Throughout Ming and Qing dynasties, China integrated some advanced technologies from Europe through the Jesuits. But the Jesuits also transferred a lot more of advanced Chinese technologies to Europe. According to Adam Smith in 1776, China was richer and technologically more advanced than Europe. The Industrial Revolution made all the difference for both Europe and China. China fell behind in the 19th century, because it missed out on the Industrial Revolution.

    Also the Jesuits transferred some advanced European technologies such as mechanical clock - making and cannon- making to China. But China was ahead of Europe in many other technologies such as agricultural, metallurgical, shipbuilding, textile, ceramic, to name a few. In military technology, Europe was ahead of China in cannon and musket -making, but China was ahead in rocket and bomb- making technologies at the end of the18th century. Until the coming of the breach-loading rifle in the middle of the 19th century, the composite bow was far superior to the European musket in range and rate of fire.


    What is amazing, however, is the relative lack of innovations and creativities on the part of the Europeans , or the "Gods" in terminology of Fred, for 1,200 friggin years from 6th century to roughly 18th century. This is roughly the time period between the collapse Roman Empire and the Industrial Revolution. So called European inventions were nothing but copies, adaptations of original inventions of other civilizations such as the Chinese, and some from Islamic, etc. According to your Adam Smith in 1776, China was the richest and technologically most advanced country in the world at a time. And you probably will even try to deny that as well. ROFL.

    The draw weight of the 6 dan leg-pulled Qin crossbow was about 400 pounds. Considering the strongest English longbow

    Agincourt had Genoese crossbowmen, but the longbow won out due to higher rate of fire.

    —————————————————————-

    The Qin Dynasty army would have easily made mincemeat out of Roman legions. The draw weight of the 6 dan leg-pulled Qin crossbow was about 400 pounds.

    Then again, theres:

    Scorpio
    The scorpio or scorpion was a type of Roman artillery piece.

    This catapult used a system of torsion springs to propel the bolts.

    During the Roman Republic and early empire, sixty scorpiones per legion was the standard, or one for every centuria.

    In this case, there are sixty scorpiones present which can fire up to 240 bolts per minute at the enemy army. The weight and speed of a bolt was sufficient to pierce enemy shields

    ————————————————————–

    According to Adam Smith in 1776, China was richer and technologically more advanced than Europe.

    By this point, we were circumnavigating the globe on a regular basis, and making accurate maps of the world: James Cook. Isaac Newton and Blaise Pascal was a hundred years ago. The telescope and microscope were used for more than a hundred years.

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    • Replies: @PandaAtWar
    English lowbow? Really? ROFLAMO.

    Don't let anyone fool you, but the Chinese repeated crossbow - essentially a semi-automatics machine gun - was arguablely the single deadliest soldier weapon in terms of kill-power in the entire human warfare history, period, until the emergence of modern rifle in the mid 19th century AND the refinement of it.

    And you can forget about attempting comparing Alexander Vs Qin, or Rome Vs Han, in term of sheer sophitication of military technologies, strategic/tratical military powess , and the massive logistics and underlying economies behind at their disposal . It's not even funny. There was a very good and logical reason for the emmergence of guys like Sun Tzi, Sun Wu in China after all.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @PandaAtWar
    People like you should do some research before making unfounded fantasy statements on Imperial China.

    The ancient China in the Spring and Autumn Period(770bc-476bc) and Warring States Period(475bc-221bc) thrived with great cultural and intellectual blossoming which was the result of the Hundred Schools of Thought. Some of the most outstanding philosophers and intellectuals such as Confucius, Lao zi, Zhang zi, Mo zi, Sun zi, Menfucious came from this time period. The ancient China was second to none in technology, academic achievements.

    The following Qin and Han dynasties were far ahead of both Greek and Roman civilizations in technologies, especially in military technologies and tactics, the ancient China was way ahead of Europe.

    The Qin Dynasty army would have easily made mincemeat out of Roman legions. The draw weight of the 6 dan leg-pulled Qin crossbow was about 400 pounds. Considering the strongest English longbow which had a draw weight of 160 pounds, could penetrate metal armour, the Qin crossbow bolts would have had no problem penetrating Roman shield and armour at once, plus they also had much more powerful winch-operated crossbows.. During the Warring State period, Qin soldiers were extremely well-trained and battle-hardy. The Qin Empire also had tactics unlike the Alexander de Great or the Romans. In their formation the Chinese at that time divided men into 5-men squads. They had two halberds, 2 spears and 1 long sword commander. The 2 halberdiers in front would hook the enemy's weapon and shield and swing it aside. The spearman would then skewer the enemy. This kind of fighting style would have decimated Alexander's army. Chinese also had Sarissas, in fact they were placed on all flanks except the front. Not to mention the crossbow itself would have decimated the pikemen.

    When you compare technologies overall between Ancient China (Qin, Han Tang, Song etc) and Greco-Roman world, there is little doubt China was WAY ahead. The comparison between two is not even funny!

    Han dynasty was much more powerful than Roman empire even regardless of time frames (i.e. peaks and lows). In terms of agriculture, metallurgy, ceramic, shipbuilding, textile, military technologies to name a few, Han Dynasty was so advanced that in many of these technologies Europe remained behind China until the Eve of the Industrial Revolution in the 19th century – think about that!. In terms of scholarship and medicine though, the achievements of both civilization were roughly the same though for the Han China and Roman Empire.


    Ancient Chinese also invented the military sphere more than 100 years before the Greeks. The Chinese were the first one who observed the sunspots. In technology, the ancient Chinese were highly developed. In Greco-Roman times, The Chinese invented compass( at this time only for land navigation),paper, cast iron, high-grade steel- making using cast iron, differential gear. These are only a few of the Chinese inventions. The Greeks and Romans did not have these things.


    The Han Chinese invented the cannon, the gun. the bomb, the land mine, the sea mine, the hand grenade, the rocket, the poison gas, the multi-stage rocket… all these things were later further developed by Europeans. Can you imagine the modern military without these Chinese inventions? As a matter of fact, Ming dynasty was the first modern gunpowder-weapon empire in the human history. Since you can’t read Chinese, for the related info in English, you can find all of these facts in SCIENCE AND CIVILIZATION IN CHINA by JOSEPH NEEDHAM and THE GENIUS OF CHINA by ROBERT TEMPLE. You will then find out how technologically advanced China was.


    In a way, ancient China was even much more democratic, yes, democratic, than your primtive "Greek Democracy" at a time. It is because of the civil examination system which was open to almost every male in imperial China, regardless of his social or financial status. This kind of highly developed social system couldn’t be found in Europe until quasi-modern age more than 1,500 years later.


    Contrary to popular myth, for a long long time Imperial China was, a very militaristic empire (that’s part of “bad” thing that Iingoistic Japan, a vassal and loyal disciple of Imperial China of "Anything-Chinese" for a good part of history, wholesale-copied from the Imperial China btw, which was particularly bitter when Japan turned against China at her weakest point in history - WW2 using the things that learned from China - yet this is just another point for another time), even though China generally believed in civilian supremacy. For the last 3000 years there has been continuous warfare in China.. This is one of the main reasons why we do not see today a lot of sophysticated ancient Chinese wooden buildings (go check Chinese ancient archtecture in Wiki) . The Mongol invasions, specially, destroyed a lot of them.


    There is a also misconception that China closed itself to the outside from the 16th century thru the 18th century. But this is not true.As a matter of fact there was a lot of trade between China and Europe. According to an economy-historian Andre Gunder Frank, about 40% of silver mined in the Americas ended up in China, because of the Europe's insatiable appetite for Chinese silk, porcelain silk. Also the Jesuits transferred a lot of advanced Chinese technologies to Europe.


    Throughout Ming and Qing dynasties, China integrated some advanced technologies from Europe through the Jesuits. But the Jesuits also transferred a lot more of advanced Chinese technologies to Europe. According to Adam Smith in 1776, China was richer and technologically more advanced than Europe. The Industrial Revolution made all the difference for both Europe and China. China fell behind in the 19th century, because it missed out on the Industrial Revolution.

    Also the Jesuits transferred some advanced European technologies such as mechanical clock - making and cannon- making to China. But China was ahead of Europe in many other technologies such as agricultural, metallurgical, shipbuilding, textile, ceramic, to name a few. In military technology, Europe was ahead of China in cannon and musket -making, but China was ahead in rocket and bomb- making technologies at the end of the18th century. Until the coming of the breach-loading rifle in the middle of the 19th century, the composite bow was far superior to the European musket in range and rate of fire.


    What is amazing, however, is the relative lack of innovations and creativities on the part of the Europeans , or the "Gods" in terminology of Fred, for 1,200 friggin years from 6th century to roughly 18th century. This is roughly the time period between the collapse Roman Empire and the Industrial Revolution. So called European inventions were nothing but copies, adaptations of original inventions of other civilizations such as the Chinese, and some from Islamic, etc. According to your Adam Smith in 1776, China was the richest and technologically most advanced country in the world at a time. And you probably will even try to deny that as well. ROFL.

    Europe remained behind China until the Eve of the Industrial Revolution in the 19th century

    I would place that date at the Age of Exploration, or 15th century.

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  • @Seraphim
    We may soon find out that the Chinese have invented everything. We may find out, as a historian put it (I think that it was Felipe Fernandez-Armesto, but I can't find the quotation), that the History of Mankind is just a chapter of Chinese History. So much for the delusional "Western Supremacy". The future Chinese archaeologists and anthropologists would write learned studies about the anomaly of the marginal cultures of the Western tip of Eurasia and of the Atlantic Islands.

    “Invented” is not the correct term. Something may have been developed there first and was simply lost to time. How then does that imply that the west or anybody else made use of this technology such that we should pretend it was invented there?

    Supposedly in those old Chinese tombs there was a carriage made of metal parts that were so precisely machined that this was the first instance of removable parts. However, there is no evidence that this technology was maintained throughout Chinese history let alone left China and was utilized anywhere else.

    Giving some long forgotten Chinese credit for something that had no influence on the world is as stupid as saying that the History of Mankind is a chapter of Chinese history. This type of thing has gone on throughout history. There are lots of Greek, Roman, Persian and Egyptian discoveries that were lost to time as well.

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    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Ron Unz

    We may soon find out that the Chinese have invented everything.
     
    Well, I don't know that I'd go that far. But it's true that a vast number of supposed Western innovations are unrecognized borrowings from China. For example, it's reasonably well known that the development of a government civil service in Britain and Prussia was taken from China, but a couple of years ago when I noted that the all academic tests might actually have a Chinese origin, lots of people were surprised:

    http://www.unz.com/article/how-social-darwinism-made-modern-china-248/#text-11

    However, as I said above, I'd never been much aware of Chinese military technology.

    @ Chinese military technology.

    Yes, indeed, western “historians” always dismissed out of hand the invention of gun powder. “And what did they do with it? Fire works. They’ve been incapable to use it for greater purposes”, was a typical response. Now, even that has gone in smoke.

    Thank you for the link. Food for thought.

    What about Leibniz inspired by the I Ching in the “invention” of binary arithmetic, the foundation of all computer systems? He wrote in 1703 a “Explanation of the Binary Arithmetic, which uses only the characters 1 and 0, with some remarks on its usefulness, and on the light it throws on the ancient Chinese figures of Fu Xi”.

    Read More
    • Replies: @MarkinLA
    The only reason computers use radix 2 arithmetic is because tubes and transistors are basically switches. There is no great advantage to a base 2 system over a base 10 or base 16 system. If somebody could have a memory cell with 16 states and circuitry that could add each base 16 number in the same time as they could do the adding of the base 2 cell base 2 would be obsolete for the simple reason that the amount of memory storage would increase by a factor of 8 and the speed of calculations increase by a factor of 4.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"] says:
    @PandaAtWar
    People like you should do some research before making unfounded fantasy statements on Imperial China.

    The ancient China in the Spring and Autumn Period(770bc-476bc) and Warring States Period(475bc-221bc) thrived with great cultural and intellectual blossoming which was the result of the Hundred Schools of Thought. Some of the most outstanding philosophers and intellectuals such as Confucius, Lao zi, Zhang zi, Mo zi, Sun zi, Menfucious came from this time period. The ancient China was second to none in technology, academic achievements.

    The following Qin and Han dynasties were far ahead of both Greek and Roman civilizations in technologies, especially in military technologies and tactics, the ancient China was way ahead of Europe.

    The Qin Dynasty army would have easily made mincemeat out of Roman legions. The draw weight of the 6 dan leg-pulled Qin crossbow was about 400 pounds. Considering the strongest English longbow which had a draw weight of 160 pounds, could penetrate metal armour, the Qin crossbow bolts would have had no problem penetrating Roman shield and armour at once, plus they also had much more powerful winch-operated crossbows.. During the Warring State period, Qin soldiers were extremely well-trained and battle-hardy. The Qin Empire also had tactics unlike the Alexander de Great or the Romans. In their formation the Chinese at that time divided men into 5-men squads. They had two halberds, 2 spears and 1 long sword commander. The 2 halberdiers in front would hook the enemy's weapon and shield and swing it aside. The spearman would then skewer the enemy. This kind of fighting style would have decimated Alexander's army. Chinese also had Sarissas, in fact they were placed on all flanks except the front. Not to mention the crossbow itself would have decimated the pikemen.

    When you compare technologies overall between Ancient China (Qin, Han Tang, Song etc) and Greco-Roman world, there is little doubt China was WAY ahead. The comparison between two is not even funny!

    Han dynasty was much more powerful than Roman empire even regardless of time frames (i.e. peaks and lows). In terms of agriculture, metallurgy, ceramic, shipbuilding, textile, military technologies to name a few, Han Dynasty was so advanced that in many of these technologies Europe remained behind China until the Eve of the Industrial Revolution in the 19th century – think about that!. In terms of scholarship and medicine though, the achievements of both civilization were roughly the same though for the Han China and Roman Empire.


    Ancient Chinese also invented the military sphere more than 100 years before the Greeks. The Chinese were the first one who observed the sunspots. In technology, the ancient Chinese were highly developed. In Greco-Roman times, The Chinese invented compass( at this time only for land navigation),paper, cast iron, high-grade steel- making using cast iron, differential gear. These are only a few of the Chinese inventions. The Greeks and Romans did not have these things.


    The Han Chinese invented the cannon, the gun. the bomb, the land mine, the sea mine, the hand grenade, the rocket, the poison gas, the multi-stage rocket… all these things were later further developed by Europeans. Can you imagine the modern military without these Chinese inventions? As a matter of fact, Ming dynasty was the first modern gunpowder-weapon empire in the human history. Since you can’t read Chinese, for the related info in English, you can find all of these facts in SCIENCE AND CIVILIZATION IN CHINA by JOSEPH NEEDHAM and THE GENIUS OF CHINA by ROBERT TEMPLE. You will then find out how technologically advanced China was.


    In a way, ancient China was even much more democratic, yes, democratic, than your primtive "Greek Democracy" at a time. It is because of the civil examination system which was open to almost every male in imperial China, regardless of his social or financial status. This kind of highly developed social system couldn’t be found in Europe until quasi-modern age more than 1,500 years later.


    Contrary to popular myth, for a long long time Imperial China was, a very militaristic empire (that’s part of “bad” thing that Iingoistic Japan, a vassal and loyal disciple of Imperial China of "Anything-Chinese" for a good part of history, wholesale-copied from the Imperial China btw, which was particularly bitter when Japan turned against China at her weakest point in history - WW2 using the things that learned from China - yet this is just another point for another time), even though China generally believed in civilian supremacy. For the last 3000 years there has been continuous warfare in China.. This is one of the main reasons why we do not see today a lot of sophysticated ancient Chinese wooden buildings (go check Chinese ancient archtecture in Wiki) . The Mongol invasions, specially, destroyed a lot of them.


    There is a also misconception that China closed itself to the outside from the 16th century thru the 18th century. But this is not true.As a matter of fact there was a lot of trade between China and Europe. According to an economy-historian Andre Gunder Frank, about 40% of silver mined in the Americas ended up in China, because of the Europe's insatiable appetite for Chinese silk, porcelain silk. Also the Jesuits transferred a lot of advanced Chinese technologies to Europe.


    Throughout Ming and Qing dynasties, China integrated some advanced technologies from Europe through the Jesuits. But the Jesuits also transferred a lot more of advanced Chinese technologies to Europe. According to Adam Smith in 1776, China was richer and technologically more advanced than Europe. The Industrial Revolution made all the difference for both Europe and China. China fell behind in the 19th century, because it missed out on the Industrial Revolution.

    Also the Jesuits transferred some advanced European technologies such as mechanical clock - making and cannon- making to China. But China was ahead of Europe in many other technologies such as agricultural, metallurgical, shipbuilding, textile, ceramic, to name a few. In military technology, Europe was ahead of China in cannon and musket -making, but China was ahead in rocket and bomb- making technologies at the end of the18th century. Until the coming of the breach-loading rifle in the middle of the 19th century, the composite bow was far superior to the European musket in range and rate of fire.


    What is amazing, however, is the relative lack of innovations and creativities on the part of the Europeans , or the "Gods" in terminology of Fred, for 1,200 friggin years from 6th century to roughly 18th century. This is roughly the time period between the collapse Roman Empire and the Industrial Revolution. So called European inventions were nothing but copies, adaptations of original inventions of other civilizations such as the Chinese, and some from Islamic, etc. According to your Adam Smith in 1776, China was the richest and technologically most advanced country in the world at a time. And you probably will even try to deny that as well. ROFL.

    The Han Chinese invented the cannon, the gun. the bomb, the land mine, the sea mine, the hand grenade, the rocket, the poison gas, the multi-stage rocket…

    Ahhh. I suspect you have been locked up in your basement masturbating too much.

    Hint. Cannons were such a game changing invention that they would have made the Chinese invincible …

    Hey, I have seen those claimed pictures of multi-stage rockets. They are pathetic. Also, playing around with mixtures of saltpeter, sulphur, charcoal and other substances might impress the ignorant but they do not impress people who know what gunpowder really is.

    Read More
    • Replies: @PandaAtWar
    Your suspection is wrong, because it is arguablely based on your internet hard porn routine ROFL

    And Hint: you are partially right that "Cannons were such a game changing invention that they would have made the Chinese invincible …" China was, until the nomads (the Mongols mainly) stole the know-how and transferred it to the Europeans...

    ...but before that happended, you can only imagine the facial expressions of the Mongols and the Europeans when they first met this extraterrestrial -level technologies of the Han Chinese in the battlefields when we fired hand grenades, rockets, bombs and whatsayyou mystical woo-woos in tandem, followed by a good round or 2 chemical "Ali" poison gas...for those who just happened to forget to run for their lives, they must have stood there still with draws open and eyeballs crossed quite like the first 10 mins of Will Smith in the Indenpendecne Day, thinking that the Chinese must be the darn Gods the way Fred Reed feels, right? ROFL

    And yes, the pictures of the first prototype multi-stage rockets Han Chinese invented are somewaht pathetic, as pathetic as how Wright brothers' first airplane would look like - even my neighbour's 12-yrs-old could have drawn a better one. So?

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Seraphim
    We may soon find out that the Chinese have invented everything. We may find out, as a historian put it (I think that it was Felipe Fernandez-Armesto, but I can't find the quotation), that the History of Mankind is just a chapter of Chinese History. So much for the delusional "Western Supremacy". The future Chinese archaeologists and anthropologists would write learned studies about the anomaly of the marginal cultures of the Western tip of Eurasia and of the Atlantic Islands.

    We may soon find out that the Chinese have invented everything.

    Well, I don’t know that I’d go that far. But it’s true that a vast number of supposed Western innovations are unrecognized borrowings from China. For example, it’s reasonably well known that the development of a government civil service in Britain and Prussia was taken from China, but a couple of years ago when I noted that the all academic tests might actually have a Chinese origin, lots of people were surprised:

    http://www.unz.com/article/how-social-darwinism-made-modern-china-248/#text-11

    However, as I said above, I’d never been much aware of Chinese military technology.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Seraphim
    @ Chinese military technology.

    Yes, indeed, western "historians" always dismissed out of hand the invention of gun powder. "And what did they do with it? Fire works. They've been incapable to use it for greater purposes", was a typical response. Now, even that has gone in smoke.

    Thank you for the link. Food for thought.

    What about Leibniz inspired by the I Ching in the "invention" of binary arithmetic, the foundation of all computer systems? He wrote in 1703 a "Explanation of the Binary Arithmetic, which uses only the characters 1 and 0, with some remarks on its usefulness, and on the light it throws on the ancient Chinese figures of Fu Xi".
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Ron Unz
    That's very interesting material regarding the advanced military technologies of Ancient China. I'd known they'd been very advanced in various other respects, including engineering and agriculture, but had always had the impression they'd never focused much on military advances, and hence were pretty mediocre in that category.

    We may soon find out that the Chinese have invented everything. We may find out, as a historian put it (I think that it was Felipe Fernandez-Armesto, but I can’t find the quotation), that the History of Mankind is just a chapter of Chinese History. So much for the delusional “Western Supremacy”. The future Chinese archaeologists and anthropologists would write learned studies about the anomaly of the marginal cultures of the Western tip of Eurasia and of the Atlantic Islands.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Ron Unz

    We may soon find out that the Chinese have invented everything.
     
    Well, I don't know that I'd go that far. But it's true that a vast number of supposed Western innovations are unrecognized borrowings from China. For example, it's reasonably well known that the development of a government civil service in Britain and Prussia was taken from China, but a couple of years ago when I noted that the all academic tests might actually have a Chinese origin, lots of people were surprised:

    http://www.unz.com/article/how-social-darwinism-made-modern-china-248/#text-11

    However, as I said above, I'd never been much aware of Chinese military technology.
    , @MarkinLA
    "Invented" is not the correct term. Something may have been developed there first and was simply lost to time. How then does that imply that the west or anybody else made use of this technology such that we should pretend it was invented there?

    Supposedly in those old Chinese tombs there was a carriage made of metal parts that were so precisely machined that this was the first instance of removable parts. However, there is no evidence that this technology was maintained throughout Chinese history let alone left China and was utilized anywhere else.

    Giving some long forgotten Chinese credit for something that had no influence on the world is as stupid as saying that the History of Mankind is a chapter of Chinese history. This type of thing has gone on throughout history. There are lots of Greek, Roman, Persian and Egyptian discoveries that were lost to time as well.
    , @PandaAtWar
    Panda is afraid to say that Ron and Mark have a point there. Felipe Fernandez-Armesto was very wrong by claiming that. From mid 19th century on , or even slightly earlier, the Europeans were posed to take the baton of human civilisation from imperial China to the next level that has proved to be so advanced that have left China, let alone the rest of the world, almost completely irrelevent in the process until most recently...so, to some extend Fred Reed also has a point there.

    However Panda also does agree that the current western mainstream historians, etc, by and large, don't have some decent clue (if some know, they just keep quiet) of how ridiculously advanced China used to be technologically when they mention the Greeko/Romans and Qin/Han China in the same breath.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Ron Unz
    That's very interesting material regarding the advanced military technologies of Ancient China. I'd known they'd been very advanced in various other respects, including engineering and agriculture, but had always had the impression they'd never focused much on military advances, and hence were pretty mediocre in that category.

    Right, it doesn’t seem to be a common knowledge that actually imperial China gave the Europeans the original prototypes of pretty much the entire god darn modern army arsenals, except airplines and airplane carriers… ROFL

    …but did included the vertical take-off helicopter rotor and the propeller as well, which were also invented by the Han Chinese in the 4th century.

    Panda guesses it’s mainly because of very Euro-centric school history textbooks in the West, except some specialised elite research institutions of course.

    Think this way:

    China mainland is the largest and “juicest” ( in terms of fertile soil and climate) part of this part of Eurasia Plate. It has been the most logical and certainly the biggest prize in eyes of all tribes in the region trying to seek lebensraum since the time immemorial, including half a dozen fierce northern Nomad tribes, some of whom swept through the Eurasian continent at their times.

    Therefore, in terms of advanced military technologies, if imperial (Han) Chinese dynasties (Qin, Han , Sui, Tang, Song, Ming) had been anything short of kinda of “USA” at their respective times, China and Chinese civilisation would have had been torn into 800 pieces long ago.

    In history, almost everyone from the central Asia to East Asia had a “fair” shot at China when at their peaks, some repeatedly:

    the Xiongnu,
    the Hun,
    the Mongols,
    the Manchus,

    even the Japanese had a shot during their peak in history : WW1 and WW2

    The Great Wall of China was “borken into” only twice – by the Mongols and the Manchus, setting up Yuan Dynasty and the last Qing Dynasty respectively. But neither of them was due to their own military tech, which was relatively “primitive” compared to China, but due to imperial China internal traitor forces.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @PandaAtWar
    People like you should do some research before making unfounded fantasy statements on Imperial China.

    The ancient China in the Spring and Autumn Period(770bc-476bc) and Warring States Period(475bc-221bc) thrived with great cultural and intellectual blossoming which was the result of the Hundred Schools of Thought. Some of the most outstanding philosophers and intellectuals such as Confucius, Lao zi, Zhang zi, Mo zi, Sun zi, Menfucious came from this time period. The ancient China was second to none in technology, academic achievements.

    The following Qin and Han dynasties were far ahead of both Greek and Roman civilizations in technologies, especially in military technologies and tactics, the ancient China was way ahead of Europe.

    The Qin Dynasty army would have easily made mincemeat out of Roman legions. The draw weight of the 6 dan leg-pulled Qin crossbow was about 400 pounds. Considering the strongest English longbow which had a draw weight of 160 pounds, could penetrate metal armour, the Qin crossbow bolts would have had no problem penetrating Roman shield and armour at once, plus they also had much more powerful winch-operated crossbows.. During the Warring State period, Qin soldiers were extremely well-trained and battle-hardy. The Qin Empire also had tactics unlike the Alexander de Great or the Romans. In their formation the Chinese at that time divided men into 5-men squads. They had two halberds, 2 spears and 1 long sword commander. The 2 halberdiers in front would hook the enemy's weapon and shield and swing it aside. The spearman would then skewer the enemy. This kind of fighting style would have decimated Alexander's army. Chinese also had Sarissas, in fact they were placed on all flanks except the front. Not to mention the crossbow itself would have decimated the pikemen.

    When you compare technologies overall between Ancient China (Qin, Han Tang, Song etc) and Greco-Roman world, there is little doubt China was WAY ahead. The comparison between two is not even funny!

    Han dynasty was much more powerful than Roman empire even regardless of time frames (i.e. peaks and lows). In terms of agriculture, metallurgy, ceramic, shipbuilding, textile, military technologies to name a few, Han Dynasty was so advanced that in many of these technologies Europe remained behind China until the Eve of the Industrial Revolution in the 19th century – think about that!. In terms of scholarship and medicine though, the achievements of both civilization were roughly the same though for the Han China and Roman Empire.


    Ancient Chinese also invented the military sphere more than 100 years before the Greeks. The Chinese were the first one who observed the sunspots. In technology, the ancient Chinese were highly developed. In Greco-Roman times, The Chinese invented compass( at this time only for land navigation),paper, cast iron, high-grade steel- making using cast iron, differential gear. These are only a few of the Chinese inventions. The Greeks and Romans did not have these things.


    The Han Chinese invented the cannon, the gun. the bomb, the land mine, the sea mine, the hand grenade, the rocket, the poison gas, the multi-stage rocket… all these things were later further developed by Europeans. Can you imagine the modern military without these Chinese inventions? As a matter of fact, Ming dynasty was the first modern gunpowder-weapon empire in the human history. Since you can’t read Chinese, for the related info in English, you can find all of these facts in SCIENCE AND CIVILIZATION IN CHINA by JOSEPH NEEDHAM and THE GENIUS OF CHINA by ROBERT TEMPLE. You will then find out how technologically advanced China was.


    In a way, ancient China was even much more democratic, yes, democratic, than your primtive "Greek Democracy" at a time. It is because of the civil examination system which was open to almost every male in imperial China, regardless of his social or financial status. This kind of highly developed social system couldn’t be found in Europe until quasi-modern age more than 1,500 years later.


    Contrary to popular myth, for a long long time Imperial China was, a very militaristic empire (that’s part of “bad” thing that Iingoistic Japan, a vassal and loyal disciple of Imperial China of "Anything-Chinese" for a good part of history, wholesale-copied from the Imperial China btw, which was particularly bitter when Japan turned against China at her weakest point in history - WW2 using the things that learned from China - yet this is just another point for another time), even though China generally believed in civilian supremacy. For the last 3000 years there has been continuous warfare in China.. This is one of the main reasons why we do not see today a lot of sophysticated ancient Chinese wooden buildings (go check Chinese ancient archtecture in Wiki) . The Mongol invasions, specially, destroyed a lot of them.


    There is a also misconception that China closed itself to the outside from the 16th century thru the 18th century. But this is not true.As a matter of fact there was a lot of trade between China and Europe. According to an economy-historian Andre Gunder Frank, about 40% of silver mined in the Americas ended up in China, because of the Europe's insatiable appetite for Chinese silk, porcelain silk. Also the Jesuits transferred a lot of advanced Chinese technologies to Europe.


    Throughout Ming and Qing dynasties, China integrated some advanced technologies from Europe through the Jesuits. But the Jesuits also transferred a lot more of advanced Chinese technologies to Europe. According to Adam Smith in 1776, China was richer and technologically more advanced than Europe. The Industrial Revolution made all the difference for both Europe and China. China fell behind in the 19th century, because it missed out on the Industrial Revolution.

    Also the Jesuits transferred some advanced European technologies such as mechanical clock - making and cannon- making to China. But China was ahead of Europe in many other technologies such as agricultural, metallurgical, shipbuilding, textile, ceramic, to name a few. In military technology, Europe was ahead of China in cannon and musket -making, but China was ahead in rocket and bomb- making technologies at the end of the18th century. Until the coming of the breach-loading rifle in the middle of the 19th century, the composite bow was far superior to the European musket in range and rate of fire.


    What is amazing, however, is the relative lack of innovations and creativities on the part of the Europeans , or the "Gods" in terminology of Fred, for 1,200 friggin years from 6th century to roughly 18th century. This is roughly the time period between the collapse Roman Empire and the Industrial Revolution. So called European inventions were nothing but copies, adaptations of original inventions of other civilizations such as the Chinese, and some from Islamic, etc. According to your Adam Smith in 1776, China was the richest and technologically most advanced country in the world at a time. And you probably will even try to deny that as well. ROFL.

    That’s very interesting material regarding the advanced military technologies of Ancient China. I’d known they’d been very advanced in various other respects, including engineering and agriculture, but had always had the impression they’d never focused much on military advances, and hence were pretty mediocre in that category.

    Read More
    • Replies: @PandaAtWar
    Right, it doesn't seem to be a common knowledge that actually imperial China gave the Europeans the original prototypes of pretty much the entire god darn modern army arsenals, except airplines and airplane carriers... ROFL

    ...but did included the vertical take-off helicopter rotor and the propeller as well, which were also invented by the Han Chinese in the 4th century.

    Panda guesses it's mainly because of very Euro-centric school history textbooks in the West, except some specialised elite research institutions of course.

    Think this way:

    China mainland is the largest and "juicest" ( in terms of fertile soil and climate) part of this part of Eurasia Plate. It has been the most logical and certainly the biggest prize in eyes of all tribes in the region trying to seek lebensraum since the time immemorial, including half a dozen fierce northern Nomad tribes, some of whom swept through the Eurasian continent at their times.

    Therefore, in terms of advanced military technologies, if imperial (Han) Chinese dynasties (Qin, Han , Sui, Tang, Song, Ming) had been anything short of kinda of "USA" at their respective times, China and Chinese civilisation would have had been torn into 800 pieces long ago.

    In history, almost everyone from the central Asia to East Asia had a "fair" shot at China when at their peaks, some repeatedly:

    the Xiongnu,
    the Hun,
    the Mongols,
    the Manchus,
    ...
    even the Japanese had a shot during their peak in history : WW1 and WW2

    The Great Wall of China was "borken into" only twice - by the Mongols and the Manchus, setting up Yuan Dynasty and the last Qing Dynasty respectively. But neither of them was due to their own military tech, which was relatively "primitive" compared to China, but due to imperial China internal traitor forces.

    , @Seraphim
    We may soon find out that the Chinese have invented everything. We may find out, as a historian put it (I think that it was Felipe Fernandez-Armesto, but I can't find the quotation), that the History of Mankind is just a chapter of Chinese History. So much for the delusional "Western Supremacy". The future Chinese archaeologists and anthropologists would write learned studies about the anomaly of the marginal cultures of the Western tip of Eurasia and of the Atlantic Islands.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Svigor
    Sure thing, Panda, I read it all, buddy. *Pats head*

    the population growth of the black population in south Africa wasn’t unique, other African countries had similar or higher growth, and people jumping fence, again other African countries had far more immigrants. The immigrants in south africa were brought in by the apartheid government to work in the mines. Get your facts straight.
     
    Yes, I'm sure they chased them all down and roped them like cattle to get them into Evil Apartheid Clutches.

    Sure thing, Panda, I read it all, buddy. *Pats head*

    Let Panda think, buddy

    errr…you?

    read a book?

    How the heck did that happen? ROFL

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    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Svigor

    Philippines, most of Indonesia etc SE Asia didn’t mean a hoot to imperial China. Frankly, not even so much for Taiwan at a time, which remained a distant and remote outpost of some fishmen. Even so, the general sent by the imperial cout eventually defeated the Dutch.
     
    Nothing more than its own navel was ever really of much interest to China. Big part of the reason for their historical under-performance; not very curious, little interest in exploration, opening up new avenues, trying new things, etc. Great at building orderly anthills, though.

    The Han were forbidden to go sea-farring by imperial courts punished by death
     
    Goes back to China as Asia's answer to Europe, not any given European country; the thought of one nation state ruling all of Europe for thousands of years is laughable. Europeans are too competitive and fractious for that shit. Along similar lines, if some European sovereign had forbid seafaring (talk about nuts), he'd have had a hell of a time keeping his country. And even if he'd succeeded, he'd just be presiding over his country losing ground to the more intelligently-run European states.

    I enjoy your stuff Fred, always amusing. However, I don’t think your littany of “white-guy ‘accomplishments’ is really the proper strategy here. One could easily add to your laundry list of amenities such toys as cluster bombs, napalm, nuclear explosions, weaponized anthrax, cruise missiles, air pollution, water pollution, food pollution, spiritual pollution and so on.
     
    Somebody wants to fuck with me, I'd rather have all those toys, than not. But I'll put you down with the Imperial Court in not favoring seafaring, discovery, invention, etc.

    Skipped the rest of your ignorant ramblings, TL;DR.


    Fred Reed’s handling of the topic of race is counterproductive to any legitimate goal. While there could be some usefulness to pointing out evidence of analytic IQ differences as a partial explanation of certain social/economic racial patterns, it needs to be done with modesty and sensitivity. Instead, Mr. Reed and his commenters adopt a mean-spirited, triumphalist tone. They are wallowing in primitive, nasty racial chauvinism. And it’s pretty disgusting. Please clean up this act.
     
    Darkies behave better when they know you'll backhand them.

    Fight fire with fire. No more Mr. Nice Guy.
     
    Amen, and Goddamn Right to that.

    The rarest thing on this site is to find a response from someone who actually seems to live on the same planet as the majority of we Americans.
     
    I knew there had to be some reason you keep coming back.

    So what are you saying? A business should pursue a policy that would lead to its own demise? Look the world is changing and this is not the country my ancestors came to any longer. White engineers are still far and away the best in the world, but face increasing competition. The answer to competition is what? Protectionism? That will lead to backwardness.
     
    Well, "protectionism" is what they're doing in China, Israel, and India, Japan, etc., you dumb fuck, so I guess we'll see who has the better long-term strategy.

    Corvinus the psycho comment, scroll on...


    Japan? Are you kidding? Residents of Chinese or Korean origin are still registered as non-citizens although their families have been in the islands for over a hundred years. Brazilians of Japanese extraction are allowed to return and they face serious social stigma.
     
    The man's a loon.

    Well , according to Kenneth Pomeranz ,the author of ‘The Great Divergence: China , Europe and the Making of the Modern World’ as recently as 1750 , there were no significant differences in development between the advanced part of Europe and East Asia, particularly China, but things began to change in Europe favor due to its access to America’s resources and coal. The point is that Europe’s access to the world’s wealth gave it an advantage over other nations .
     
    Guess that shows where obeying the Emperor got them.

    What China didn’t have was the red mans gold, which the white man helped himself to a great deal. Also the use of slavery helped to propel the white mans economy during this time.
     
    Amerinds were slavers, misogynists, murderers, bandits, torturers, mutilators, and rapists.

    Churches are tempting targets for firebugs. Smaller churches in rural areas and small towns are often in isolated areas and are empty during the week — plenty of time to slosh some kerosene around and whip out the old Zippo, then get the hell out of Dodge. And blacks are very quick to blame “racist” whites when anything bad happens to them, no matter how flimsy or even non-existent the evidence may be.
     
    Just saw the local toilet paper, with a caption that read something like "church burns, stirring memories of KKK." In other words, the KKK had jack shit to do with it, as far as they know. But memories stirred.

    According to the author of ‘ Guns Germs and Steel’, the flat terrain in Europe was

    more conducive to conflicts among European countries which in turn drove

    technological advancement in armament which in turn provided Europe with weapons for

    conquest and thus access to the world’s resources and wealth.
     

    The "favorable terrain" seems to follow YT wherever he goes. Same goes with blacks and their "unfavorable terrain."

    According to me, Diamond is just another obscurantist Jew in the Gould mold.


    Regarding the Chinese. There are two schools of thought. The genetic explanation is that the Chinese are somehow lacking in some subtle aspect of cognition and cannot function as well as whites at least at the top end of the scale. The culture explanation is that they can and its only a matter of time before they overtake whites in terms of accomplishment. Or something like that.
     
    I think it's non-IQ factors. Relative lack of willingness to conflict with the herd, basically. They need a consensus before they can take a dump. Mavericks make history.

    China and India are the only countries to develop significant nuclear weaponry without a native Jewish population to draw on. Hitler was no closer than Saddam (though nobody calls FDR a liar. Funny how that works.)
     
    None of these cretins ever "blame" nukes on Jews, either; just YT. Funny how that works, too.

    One of the things I learned in science as a child that has stuck to me to this day (and I don’t know if it is still true) is that the Egyptian Pyramids could not be built to the specification they were, using any technology known to man in the 1980s.
     
    Solved! How Ancient Egyptians Moved Massive Pyramid Stones

    The ancient Egyptians who built the pyramids may have been able to move massive stone blocks across the desert by wetting the sand in front of a contraption built to pull the heavy objects, according to a new study.

    Physicists at the University of Amsterdam investigated the forces needed to pull weighty objects on a giant sled over desert sand, and discovered that dampening the sand in front of the primitive device reduces friction on the sled, making it easier to operate. The findings help answer one of the most enduring historical mysteries: how the Egyptians were able to accomplish the seemingly impossible task of constructing the famous pyramids.
     


    China is a great under achiever, just imagine how much a country with over a billion Germans or even Italians can achieve. Most of the innovation comes from theft.
     
    This. MORE than a billion of them, now. With a mean IQ of around 105. Their output has been dismal for a long time.

    You mean theft of Chinese innovations by the Italians (noodles) or Brits (tea)? Or older, Romans (silk)?
     
    Fuck, Chins couldn't even do noodles right. Took the Italians to make 'em work. Thai noodles are pretty awesome, though.

    “This. MORE than a billion of them, now. With a mean IQ of around 105. Their output has been dismal for a long time.”

    Their IQ isn’t 105, and I don’t think it’s as high for any other east asian country, except for places like Singapore and Hong Kong, which are likely much higher. I see 100 for China as much more realistic and the same or slightly higher for Japan, Korea and Taiwan. It’s been known for some time that asian-americans are more highly selected, and that many of the Chinese come from Taiwan and Hong Kong (upwards of a million from the latter), yet this hasn’t stopped Lynn and his fans (whether fellow academics or the legions online) from acting like they, along with some other small diaspora populations are perfectly representative of their national averages. Note what Jason Malloy said about Lynn’s work here: http://humanvarieties.org/2014/06/06/hvgiq-burma/comment-page-1/#comment-3390

    “A long time ago I checked through his China references and almost none of them even contained IQ data! It was totally baffling. I have 100s of Chinese studies, many of them in Chinese. I would love to start working on the China post, but it would be a crazy amount of work, and I would probably need a good Chinese collaborator.

    You are right, though. I have not carefully examined them, but many studies from rural China report IQ scores in the 90s, 80s and lower.”

    I would bet those are strongly environmental, but the idea you can find high scores just about everywhere you go in China is a myth.

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    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Sure thing, Panda, I read it all, buddy. *Pats head*

    the population growth of the black population in south Africa wasn’t unique, other African countries had similar or higher growth, and people jumping fence, again other African countries had far more immigrants. The immigrants in south africa were brought in by the apartheid government to work in the mines. Get your facts straight.

    Yes, I’m sure they chased them all down and roped them like cattle to get them into Evil Apartheid Clutches.

    Read More
    • Replies: @PandaAtWar

    Sure thing, Panda, I read it all, buddy. *Pats head*
     
    Let Panda think, buddy

    errr...you?

    read a book?

    How the heck did that happen? ROFL

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Svigor

    Black people invented peanut butter, NOW CAN YOU DIG THAT SUCKAAAAAAA.
     
    It is the world's most perfect survival food. Cheap, good shelf life, and packed with balanced calories.

    Every time you are in a hurry and have to wait at a stop light, thank the black man!
     
    Black Invention Myths

    Traffic Signal

    Invented by Garrett A. Morgan in 1923? Nope.

    The first known traffic signal appeared in London in 1868 near the Houses of Parliament. Designed by JP Knight, it featured two semaphore arms and two gas lamps. The earliest electric traffic lights include Lester Wire's two-color version set up in Salt Lake City circa 1912, James Hoge's system (US patent #1,251,666) installed in Cleveland by the American Traffic Signal Company in 1914, and William Potts' 4-way red-yellow-green lights introduced in Detroit beginning in 1920. New York City traffic towers began flashing three-color signals also in 1920.

    Garrett Morgan's cross-shaped, crank-operated semaphore was not among the first half-hundred patented traffic signals, nor was it "automatic" as is sometimes claimed, nor did it play any part in the evolution of the modern traffic light.
     

    But it is also important to look at the some of the most stupid and terrible and crazy things only White people do that other races generally do not.
     
    Once again, White Supremacy blinds YT to the real achievements of the black man:

    The death rate of the Rwandan Genocide far exceeded the death rate of the Jewish Holocaust

    So you see, even the highest estimates for the daily death rate of the Jewish holocaust are less than half of even the lowest estimates for the daily death rate of the Rwandan genocide. Hutus managed to (at minimum) double the vaunted efficiency of the Nazi holocaust against the Jews. In all likelihood, they were far more successful than a mere doubling; the proper figure (if we’re being ANTI-SEMITIC!!! and assuming the Jewish Holocaust wasn’t nearly as long a period as mainstream historians maintain, and go with 1939-1945 instead) is probably more like 2,350 daily rate, vs. 8,000 daily rate. Which is 3.4 times as efficient, not a mere doubling.

    If the Nazis had been as efficient as the Hutus, there would be no Jewish Holocaust survivors today. In fact, they’d have finished the job and killed all 9,000,000 Jews in Europe in only 1125 days, or roughly 3 years, start to finish, using nothing more sophisticated than an SMG. Hitler should’ve hired a Hutu to consult.
     
    And that's all while using machetes as the primary weapon. Just think of what blacks could do, if YT hadn't stolen all the black man's modern military technology for themselves?

    If White men are Gods since 18th centry till now, then Han Chinese were Gods from 200BC till 1200AD.
     
    FIFY. But sure, own that first century, baby.

    The Roman Empire had a pretty good run.
     
    Whups. Make that "own those dark ages, baby."

    One black invention the bros refuse to take credit for is slavery. I do agree that most current black ills come out of slavery
     
    I was just thinking about this in the context of (what I consider to be) the myth of greater black racism. I suspect that predisposition toward ethnocentrism is, like most such general traits, sorted along Rushton's usual yellow>white>black or black>white>yellow arrangement. In other words, whites are probably intermediate between blacks and yellows in terms of ethnocentrism. Meaning, either blacks are naturally the most ethnocentric, and yellows the least, or yellows are naturally the most ethnocentric, and blacks the least. Then it occurred to me; yellows have no history of selling people of their own race to people of other races. And blacks have the world's proudest tradition of selling people of their own race to people of other races. That would seem like a pretty substantial argument for my suspicion.

    You do know the intermarriage rate’s about 50%, right?
     
    You do know that (dubious figure) has fuck-all to do with miscegenation, right? Jews sweep the number of Jews who marry blacks under the rug year in, year out, because it's an embarrassment to their phony pose of leftist values. The numbers might as well be a state secret.

    The greater evil is the murder of others, not the “Killing their own for unjust reasons”
     
    Insofar as I can divine what that means, it seems to be complete horseshit. Killing your own kind speaks of lower character than killing the other.

    Answer: Because those blacks have intermarried with whites (or interbred, as the case may be) in the last 100-odd years and tend to do better than than those–the unenslaved–who have not. Think before you post. This i s why we can’t have nice things.
     
    Wrong. Blacks living in white societies have dramatically higher standards of living, regardless of their levels of intermarriage. Blacks come here from Africa and enjoy those same standards of living (or better), fresh off the boat. This also explains why blacks are coming here (and anywhere else whites can be found) on boats from Africa. It also explains South Africa's huge increases in black population, right on through the Apartheid years; blacks were jumping SA's fence to get in because YT is where the high livin' is.

    The author sounds like a spoiled rich kid telling the servants how important his Daddy is. Sorry, but you don’t get respect by inheritance.

    Tell me when you’ve achieved something similar to Einstein or Beethoven and I’ll evaluate on a case-by-case basis.
     
    The race produced them = white.

    Leftists love to hold up any black/brown/whatever with a pulse as a black/brown/whatever genius. Then they turn around and chastise whites for doing the same, because leftists are vile.

    But YT is definitely, DEFINITELY to be kept on the hook for black failure, forever and ever, amen. No problems with association-by-race when that comes up.

    Bliss says:
     
    /reading, begin scrolling.

    But how long did those dynasties last – surely not from 200BC to 1700 AD. The architecture and civil engineering of Rome was more advanced than China. I don’t recall any period where the architecture wasn’t more advanced in Europe.
     
    Chinese fortifications were for shit. Don't bother looking for "Chinese castles," there are none. Big part of why the Mongols conquered them.

    Maybe Fred is just tired of descendants of sub-saharan Africa, where nothing of value ever occurred, constantly talking about “white devils” or blaming whites for every ill or the Afrocentric drivel American blacks spew about Egypt being part of black heritage.
     
    Precisely. If leftists want to call white men the villains of history, they shouldn't act butthurt when white men respond to the contrary.

    Ever heard of Lisa Bonet, Drake, Lenny Kravitz or Mark Ndesandjo?
     
    Well, that's four accounted for.

    Whites deserve credit for creating the modern world, but whites also deserve blame for creating a lot of the problems we see today. Colonialism, communism, political correctness, feminism, etc etc.
     
    When you're that big, even your farts matter.

    As for the yellow/Jewish supremacy rant...Jews follow whites around. Yellows follow whites around. 'Nuff said.

    You’d think that these civilizations that had a head start of millennia wouldn’t have ended up so thoroughly outshined by us upstart barbarians, would you.
     
    You'd think that one would sting, but, consider the mentality of blacks/yellows/Jews who aren't quite content with the rapid pace of white self-abnegation and suicide and...seek out the last few pockets of unreconstructed whites, to soak up HBD. It doesn't paint a healthy mental picture.

    I don’t believe that Rome had anything to compare with the Grand Canal (canal system) of China – really a fantastic feat of civil engineering.
     
    I don't believe China had anything to compare with The Roman Empire. Or, say, any given castle, ever.

    There may be no greater tribute to a society’s ingenuity and vision than Egypt’s Great Pyramid of Giza.
     
    I'd say toilet paper has it whipped.

    Somewhere in Mexico Fred Reed is chuckling…
     
    Opportunistic insurance fraud by black pastors must amuse him, then.

    Oh my, Fred. Burning witches was so -
     
    Sheesh, the psychos are thick in this thread. Let the scrolling begin anew...

    And black hooker "Bliss," so more scrolling...

    White "chest thumping" = telling black/whatever chest-thumpers that they're full of shit. Whites having the nerve to defy the powers of Leftism = "chest thumping."

    Microcosm of leftist moral bankruptcy. But, what else can one expect from Team Darkie?

    People like you should do some research before making unfounded fantasy statements on Imperial China.

    The ancient China in the Spring and Autumn Period(770bc-476bc) and Warring States Period(475bc-221bc) thrived with great cultural and intellectual blossoming which was the result of the Hundred Schools of Thought. Some of the most outstanding philosophers and intellectuals such as Confucius, Lao zi, Zhang zi, Mo zi, Sun zi, Menfucious came from this time period. The ancient China was second to none in technology, academic achievements.

    The following Qin and Han dynasties were far ahead of both Greek and Roman civilizations in technologies, especially in military technologies and tactics, the ancient China was way ahead of Europe.

    The Qin Dynasty army would have easily made mincemeat out of Roman legions. The draw weight of the 6 dan leg-pulled Qin crossbow was about 400 pounds. Considering the strongest English longbow which had a draw weight of 160 pounds, could penetrate metal armour, the Qin crossbow bolts would have had no problem penetrating Roman shield and armour at once, plus they also had much more powerful winch-operated crossbows.. During the Warring State period, Qin soldiers were extremely well-trained and battle-hardy. The Qin Empire also had tactics unlike the Alexander de Great or the Romans. In their formation the Chinese at that time divided men into 5-men squads. They had two halberds, 2 spears and 1 long sword commander. The 2 halberdiers in front would hook the enemy’s weapon and shield and swing it aside. The spearman would then skewer the enemy. This kind of fighting style would have decimated Alexander’s army. Chinese also had Sarissas, in fact they were placed on all flanks except the front. Not to mention the crossbow itself would have decimated the pikemen.

    When you compare technologies overall between Ancient China (Qin, Han Tang, Song etc) and Greco-Roman world, there is little doubt China was WAY ahead. The comparison between two is not even funny!

    Han dynasty was much more powerful than Roman empire even regardless of time frames (i.e. peaks and lows). In terms of agriculture, metallurgy, ceramic, shipbuilding, textile, military technologies to name a few, Han Dynasty was so advanced that in many of these technologies Europe remained behind China until the Eve of the Industrial Revolution in the 19th century – think about that!. In terms of scholarship and medicine though, the achievements of both civilization were roughly the same though for the Han China and Roman Empire.

    Ancient Chinese also invented the military sphere more than 100 years before the Greeks. The Chinese were the first one who observed the sunspots. In technology, the ancient Chinese were highly developed. In Greco-Roman times, The Chinese invented compass( at this time only for land navigation),paper, cast iron, high-grade steel- making using cast iron, differential gear. These are only a few of the Chinese inventions. The Greeks and Romans did not have these things.

    The Han Chinese invented the cannon, the gun. the bomb, the land mine, the sea mine, the hand grenade, the rocket, the poison gas, the multi-stage rocket… all these things were later further developed by Europeans. Can you imagine the modern military without these Chinese inventions? As a matter of fact, Ming dynasty was the first modern gunpowder-weapon empire in the human history. Since you can’t read Chinese, for the related info in English, you can find all of these facts in SCIENCE AND CIVILIZATION IN CHINA by JOSEPH NEEDHAM and THE GENIUS OF CHINA by ROBERT TEMPLE. You will then find out how technologically advanced China was.

    In a way, ancient China was even much more democratic, yes, democratic, than your primtive “Greek Democracy” at a time. It is because of the civil examination system which was open to almost every male in imperial China, regardless of his social or financial status. This kind of highly developed social system couldn’t be found in Europe until quasi-modern age more than 1,500 years later.

    Contrary to popular myth, for a long long time Imperial China was, a very militaristic empire (that’s part of “bad” thing that Iingoistic Japan, a vassal and loyal disciple of Imperial China of “Anything-Chinese” for a good part of history, wholesale-copied from the Imperial China btw, which was particularly bitter when Japan turned against China at her weakest point in history – WW2 using the things that learned from China – yet this is just another point for another time), even though China generally believed in civilian supremacy. For the last 3000 years there has been continuous warfare in China.. This is one of the main reasons why we do not see today a lot of sophysticated ancient Chinese wooden buildings (go check Chinese ancient archtecture in Wiki) . The Mongol invasions, specially, destroyed a lot of them.

    There is a also misconception that China closed itself to the outside from the 16th century thru the 18th century. But this is not true.As a matter of fact there was a lot of trade between China and Europe. According to an economy-historian Andre Gunder Frank, about 40% of silver mined in the Americas ended up in China, because of the Europe’s insatiable appetite for Chinese silk, porcelain silk. Also the Jesuits transferred a lot of advanced Chinese technologies to Europe.

    Throughout Ming and Qing dynasties, China integrated some advanced technologies from Europe through the Jesuits. But the Jesuits also transferred a lot more of advanced Chinese technologies to Europe. According to Adam Smith in 1776, China was richer and technologically more advanced than Europe. The Industrial Revolution made all the difference for both Europe and China. China fell behind in the 19th century, because it missed out on the Industrial Revolution.

    Also the Jesuits transferred some advanced European technologies such as mechanical clock – making and cannon- making to China. But China was ahead of Europe in many other technologies such as agricultural, metallurgical, shipbuilding, textile, ceramic, to name a few. In military technology, Europe was ahead of China in cannon and musket -making, but China was ahead in rocket and bomb- making technologies at the end of the18th century. Until the coming of the breach-loading rifle in the middle of the 19th century, the composite bow was far superior to the European musket in range and rate of fire.

    What is amazing, however, is the relative lack of innovations and creativities on the part of the Europeans , or the “Gods” in terminology of Fred, for 1,200 friggin years from 6th century to roughly 18th century. This is roughly the time period between the collapse Roman Empire and the Industrial Revolution. So called European inventions were nothing but copies, adaptations of original inventions of other civilizations such as the Chinese, and some from Islamic, etc. According to your Adam Smith in 1776, China was the richest and technologically most advanced country in the world at a time. And you probably will even try to deny that as well. ROFL.

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    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    That's very interesting material regarding the advanced military technologies of Ancient China. I'd known they'd been very advanced in various other respects, including engineering and agriculture, but had always had the impression they'd never focused much on military advances, and hence were pretty mediocre in that category.
    , @The most deplorable one

    The Han Chinese invented the cannon, the gun. the bomb, the land mine, the sea mine, the hand grenade, the rocket, the poison gas, the multi-stage rocket…
     
    Ahhh. I suspect you have been locked up in your basement masturbating too much.

    Hint. Cannons were such a game changing invention that they would have made the Chinese invincible ...

    Hey, I have seen those claimed pictures of multi-stage rockets. They are pathetic. Also, playing around with mixtures of saltpeter, sulphur, charcoal and other substances might impress the ignorant but they do not impress people who know what gunpowder really is.
    , @Hippopotamusdrome

    Europe remained behind China until the Eve of the Industrial Revolution in the 19th century
     
    I would place that date at the Age of Exploration, or 15th century.
    , @Hippopotamusdrome

    The draw weight of the 6 dan leg-pulled Qin crossbow was about 400 pounds. Considering the strongest English longbow
     
    Agincourt had Genoese crossbowmen, but the longbow won out due to higher rate of fire.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------


    The Qin Dynasty army would have easily made mincemeat out of Roman legions. The draw weight of the 6 dan leg-pulled Qin crossbow was about 400 pounds.
     
    Then again, theres:

    Scorpio
    The scorpio or scorpion was a type of Roman artillery piece.
    ...
    This catapult used a system of torsion springs to propel the bolts.
    ...
    During the Roman Republic and early empire, sixty scorpiones per legion was the standard, or one for every centuria.
    ...
    In this case, there are sixty scorpiones present which can fire up to 240 bolts per minute at the enemy army. The weight and speed of a bolt was sufficient to pierce enemy shields

     

    --------------------------------------------------------------

    According to Adam Smith in 1776, China was richer and technologically more advanced than Europe.
     
    By this point, we were circumnavigating the globe on a regular basis, and making accurate maps of the world: James Cook. Isaac Newton and Blaise Pascal was a hundred years ago. The telescope and microscope were used for more than a hundred years.
    , @Hippopotamusdrome

    What is amazing, however, is the relative lack of innovations and creativities on the part of the ... for 1,200 friggin years from 6th century to roughly 18th century. ... So called European inventions were nothing but copies, adaptations of original inventions of other civilizations such as the Chinese, and some from Islamic, etc.
     
    We were just giving everyone else a sporting chance by giving them a thousand year head start to create a first world society. Even with the handicap, we still won and now we get to hear everyone whine about third world poverty and inequality because we bettered ourselves and made a contrast.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • BBC says:
    @Svigor

    Black people invented peanut butter, NOW CAN YOU DIG THAT SUCKAAAAAAA.
     
    It is the world's most perfect survival food. Cheap, good shelf life, and packed with balanced calories.

    Every time you are in a hurry and have to wait at a stop light, thank the black man!
     
    Black Invention Myths

    Traffic Signal

    Invented by Garrett A. Morgan in 1923? Nope.

    The first known traffic signal appeared in London in 1868 near the Houses of Parliament. Designed by JP Knight, it featured two semaphore arms and two gas lamps. The earliest electric traffic lights include Lester Wire's two-color version set up in Salt Lake City circa 1912, James Hoge's system (US patent #1,251,666) installed in Cleveland by the American Traffic Signal Company in 1914, and William Potts' 4-way red-yellow-green lights introduced in Detroit beginning in 1920. New York City traffic towers began flashing three-color signals also in 1920.

    Garrett Morgan's cross-shaped, crank-operated semaphore was not among the first half-hundred patented traffic signals, nor was it "automatic" as is sometimes claimed, nor did it play any part in the evolution of the modern traffic light.
     

    But it is also important to look at the some of the most stupid and terrible and crazy things only White people do that other races generally do not.
     
    Once again, White Supremacy blinds YT to the real achievements of the black man:

    The death rate of the Rwandan Genocide far exceeded the death rate of the Jewish Holocaust

    So you see, even the highest estimates for the daily death rate of the Jewish holocaust are less than half of even the lowest estimates for the daily death rate of the Rwandan genocide. Hutus managed to (at minimum) double the vaunted efficiency of the Nazi holocaust against the Jews. In all likelihood, they were far more successful than a mere doubling; the proper figure (if we’re being ANTI-SEMITIC!!! and assuming the Jewish Holocaust wasn’t nearly as long a period as mainstream historians maintain, and go with 1939-1945 instead) is probably more like 2,350 daily rate, vs. 8,000 daily rate. Which is 3.4 times as efficient, not a mere doubling.

    If the Nazis had been as efficient as the Hutus, there would be no Jewish Holocaust survivors today. In fact, they’d have finished the job and killed all 9,000,000 Jews in Europe in only 1125 days, or roughly 3 years, start to finish, using nothing more sophisticated than an SMG. Hitler should’ve hired a Hutu to consult.
     
    And that's all while using machetes as the primary weapon. Just think of what blacks could do, if YT hadn't stolen all the black man's modern military technology for themselves?

    If White men are Gods since 18th centry till now, then Han Chinese were Gods from 200BC till 1200AD.
     
    FIFY. But sure, own that first century, baby.

    The Roman Empire had a pretty good run.
     
    Whups. Make that "own those dark ages, baby."

    One black invention the bros refuse to take credit for is slavery. I do agree that most current black ills come out of slavery
     
    I was just thinking about this in the context of (what I consider to be) the myth of greater black racism. I suspect that predisposition toward ethnocentrism is, like most such general traits, sorted along Rushton's usual yellow>white>black or black>white>yellow arrangement. In other words, whites are probably intermediate between blacks and yellows in terms of ethnocentrism. Meaning, either blacks are naturally the most ethnocentric, and yellows the least, or yellows are naturally the most ethnocentric, and blacks the least. Then it occurred to me; yellows have no history of selling people of their own race to people of other races. And blacks have the world's proudest tradition of selling people of their own race to people of other races. That would seem like a pretty substantial argument for my suspicion.

    You do know the intermarriage rate’s about 50%, right?
     
    You do know that (dubious figure) has fuck-all to do with miscegenation, right? Jews sweep the number of Jews who marry blacks under the rug year in, year out, because it's an embarrassment to their phony pose of leftist values. The numbers might as well be a state secret.

    The greater evil is the murder of others, not the “Killing their own for unjust reasons”
     
    Insofar as I can divine what that means, it seems to be complete horseshit. Killing your own kind speaks of lower character than killing the other.

    Answer: Because those blacks have intermarried with whites (or interbred, as the case may be) in the last 100-odd years and tend to do better than than those–the unenslaved–who have not. Think before you post. This i s why we can’t have nice things.
     
    Wrong. Blacks living in white societies have dramatically higher standards of living, regardless of their levels of intermarriage. Blacks come here from Africa and enjoy those same standards of living (or better), fresh off the boat. This also explains why blacks are coming here (and anywhere else whites can be found) on boats from Africa. It also explains South Africa's huge increases in black population, right on through the Apartheid years; blacks were jumping SA's fence to get in because YT is where the high livin' is.

    The author sounds like a spoiled rich kid telling the servants how important his Daddy is. Sorry, but you don’t get respect by inheritance.

    Tell me when you’ve achieved something similar to Einstein or Beethoven and I’ll evaluate on a case-by-case basis.
     
    The race produced them = white.

    Leftists love to hold up any black/brown/whatever with a pulse as a black/brown/whatever genius. Then they turn around and chastise whites for doing the same, because leftists are vile.

    But YT is definitely, DEFINITELY to be kept on the hook for black failure, forever and ever, amen. No problems with association-by-race when that comes up.

    Bliss says:
     
    /reading, begin scrolling.

    But how long did those dynasties last – surely not from 200BC to 1700 AD. The architecture and civil engineering of Rome was more advanced than China. I don’t recall any period where the architecture wasn’t more advanced in Europe.
     
    Chinese fortifications were for shit. Don't bother looking for "Chinese castles," there are none. Big part of why the Mongols conquered them.

    Maybe Fred is just tired of descendants of sub-saharan Africa, where nothing of value ever occurred, constantly talking about “white devils” or blaming whites for every ill or the Afrocentric drivel American blacks spew about Egypt being part of black heritage.
     
    Precisely. If leftists want to call white men the villains of history, they shouldn't act butthurt when white men respond to the contrary.

    Ever heard of Lisa Bonet, Drake, Lenny Kravitz or Mark Ndesandjo?
     
    Well, that's four accounted for.

    Whites deserve credit for creating the modern world, but whites also deserve blame for creating a lot of the problems we see today. Colonialism, communism, political correctness, feminism, etc etc.
     
    When you're that big, even your farts matter.

    As for the yellow/Jewish supremacy rant...Jews follow whites around. Yellows follow whites around. 'Nuff said.

    You’d think that these civilizations that had a head start of millennia wouldn’t have ended up so thoroughly outshined by us upstart barbarians, would you.
     
    You'd think that one would sting, but, consider the mentality of blacks/yellows/Jews who aren't quite content with the rapid pace of white self-abnegation and suicide and...seek out the last few pockets of unreconstructed whites, to soak up HBD. It doesn't paint a healthy mental picture.

    I don’t believe that Rome had anything to compare with the Grand Canal (canal system) of China – really a fantastic feat of civil engineering.
     
    I don't believe China had anything to compare with The Roman Empire. Or, say, any given castle, ever.

    There may be no greater tribute to a society’s ingenuity and vision than Egypt’s Great Pyramid of Giza.
     
    I'd say toilet paper has it whipped.

    Somewhere in Mexico Fred Reed is chuckling…
     
    Opportunistic insurance fraud by black pastors must amuse him, then.

    Oh my, Fred. Burning witches was so -
     
    Sheesh, the psychos are thick in this thread. Let the scrolling begin anew...

    And black hooker "Bliss," so more scrolling...

    White "chest thumping" = telling black/whatever chest-thumpers that they're full of shit. Whites having the nerve to defy the powers of Leftism = "chest thumping."

    Microcosm of leftist moral bankruptcy. But, what else can one expect from Team Darkie?

    @svigor

    the population growth of the black population in south Africa wasn’t unique, other African countries had similar or higher growth, and people jumping fence, again other African countries had far more immigrants. The immigrants in south africa were brought in by the apartheid government to work in the mines. Get your facts straight.

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    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Svigor says:

    Philippines, most of Indonesia etc SE Asia didn’t mean a hoot to imperial China. Frankly, not even so much for Taiwan at a time, which remained a distant and remote outpost of some fishmen. Even so, the general sent by the imperial cout eventually defeated the Dutch.

    Nothing more than its own navel was ever really of much interest to China. Big part of the reason for their historical under-performance; not very curious, little interest in exploration, opening up new avenues, trying new things, etc. Great at building orderly anthills, though.

    The Han were forbidden to go sea-farring by imperial courts punished by death

    Goes back to China as Asia’s answer to Europe, not any given European country; the thought of one nation state ruling all of Europe for thousands of years is laughable. Europeans are too competitive and fractious for that shit. Along similar lines, if some European sovereign had forbid seafaring (talk about nuts), he’d have had a hell of a time keeping his country. And even if he’d succeeded, he’d just be presiding over his country losing ground to the more intelligently-run European states.

    I enjoy your stuff Fred, always amusing. However, I don’t think your littany of “white-guy ‘accomplishments’ is really the proper strategy here. One could easily add to your laundry list of amenities such toys as cluster bombs, napalm, nuclear explosions, weaponized anthrax, cruise missiles, air pollution, water pollution, food pollution, spiritual pollution and so on.

    Somebody wants to fuck with me, I’d rather have all those toys, than not. But I’ll put you down with the Imperial Court in not favoring seafaring, discovery, invention, etc.

    Skipped the rest of your ignorant ramblings, TL;DR.

    Fred Reed’s handling of the topic of race is counterproductive to any legitimate goal. While there could be some usefulness to pointing out evidence of analytic IQ differences as a partial explanation of certain social/economic racial patterns, it needs to be done with modesty and sensitivity. Instead, Mr. Reed and his commenters adopt a mean-spirited, triumphalist tone. They are wallowing in primitive, nasty racial chauvinism. And it’s pretty disgusting. Please clean up this act.

    Darkies behave better when they know you’ll backhand them.

    Fight fire with fire. No more Mr. Nice Guy.

    Amen, and Goddamn Right to that.

    The rarest thing on this site is to find a response from someone who actually seems to live on the same planet as the majority of we Americans.

    I knew there had to be some reason you keep coming back.

    So what are you saying? A business should pursue a policy that would lead to its own demise? Look the world is changing and this is not the country my ancestors came to any longer. White engineers are still far and away the best in the world, but face increasing competition. The answer to competition is what? Protectionism? That will lead to backwardness.

    Well, “protectionism” is what they’re doing in China, Israel, and India, Japan, etc., you dumb fuck, so I guess we’ll see who has the better long-term strategy.

    Corvinus the psycho comment, scroll on…

    Japan? Are you kidding? Residents of Chinese or Korean origin are still registered as non-citizens although their families have been in the islands for over a hundred years. Brazilians of Japanese extraction are allowed to return and they face serious social stigma.

    The man’s a loon.

    Well , according to Kenneth Pomeranz ,the author of ‘The Great Divergence: China , Europe and the Making of the Modern World’ as recently as 1750 , there were no significant differences in development between the advanced part of Europe and East Asia, particularly China, but things began to change in Europe favor due to its access to America’s resources and coal. The point is that Europe’s access to the world’s wealth gave it an advantage over other nations .

    Guess that shows where obeying the Emperor got them.

    What China didn’t have was the red mans gold, which the white man helped himself to a great deal. Also the use of slavery helped to propel the white mans economy during this time.

    Amerinds were slavers, misogynists, murderers, bandits, torturers, mutilators, and rapists.

    Churches are tempting targets for firebugs. Smaller churches in rural areas and small towns are often in isolated areas and are empty during the week — plenty of time to slosh some kerosene around and whip out the old Zippo, then get the hell out of Dodge. And blacks are very quick to blame “racist” whites when anything bad happens to them, no matter how flimsy or even non-existent the evidence may be.

    Just saw the local toilet paper, with a caption that read something like “church burns, stirring memories of KKK.” In other words, the KKK had jack shit to do with it, as far as they know. But memories stirred.

    According to the author of ‘ Guns Germs and Steel’, the flat terrain in Europe was

    more conducive to conflicts among European countries which in turn drove

    technological advancement in armament which in turn provided Europe with weapons for

    conquest and thus access to the world’s resources and wealth.

    The “favorable terrain” seems to follow YT wherever he goes. Same goes with blacks and their “unfavorable terrain.”

    According to me, Diamond is just another obscurantist Jew in the Gould mold.

    Regarding the Chinese. There are two schools of thought. The genetic explanation is that the Chinese are somehow lacking in some subtle aspect of cognition and cannot function as well as whites at least at the top end of the scale. The culture explanation is that they can and its only a matter of time before they overtake whites in terms of accomplishment. Or something like that.

    I think it’s non-IQ factors. Relative lack of willingness to conflict with the herd, basically. They need a consensus before they can take a dump. Mavericks make history.

    China and India are the only countries to develop significant nuclear weaponry without a native Jewish population to draw on. Hitler was no closer than Saddam (though nobody calls FDR a liar. Funny how that works.)

    None of these cretins ever “blame” nukes on Jews, either; just YT. Funny how that works, too.

    One of the things I learned in science as a child that has stuck to me to this day (and I don’t know if it is still true) is that the Egyptian Pyramids could not be built to the specification they were, using any technology known to man in the 1980s.

    Solved! How Ancient Egyptians Moved Massive Pyramid Stones

    The ancient Egyptians who built the pyramids may have been able to move massive stone blocks across the desert by wetting the sand in front of a contraption built to pull the heavy objects, according to a new study.

    Physicists at the University of Amsterdam investigated the forces needed to pull weighty objects on a giant sled over desert sand, and discovered that dampening the sand in front of the primitive device reduces friction on the sled, making it easier to operate. The findings help answer one of the most enduring historical mysteries: how the Egyptians were able to accomplish the seemingly impossible task of constructing the famous pyramids.

    China is a great under achiever, just imagine how much a country with over a billion Germans or even Italians can achieve. Most of the innovation comes from theft.

    This. MORE than a billion of them, now. With a mean IQ of around 105. Their output has been dismal for a long time.

    You mean theft of Chinese innovations by the Italians (noodles) or Brits (tea)? Or older, Romans (silk)?

    Fuck, Chins couldn’t even do noodles right. Took the Italians to make ‘em work. Thai noodles are pretty awesome, though.

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    • Replies: @Dipwill
    "This. MORE than a billion of them, now. With a mean IQ of around 105. Their output has been dismal for a long time."

    Their IQ isn't 105, and I don't think it's as high for any other east asian country, except for places like Singapore and Hong Kong, which are likely much higher. I see 100 for China as much more realistic and the same or slightly higher for Japan, Korea and Taiwan. It's been known for some time that asian-americans are more highly selected, and that many of the Chinese come from Taiwan and Hong Kong (upwards of a million from the latter), yet this hasn't stopped Lynn and his fans (whether fellow academics or the legions online) from acting like they, along with some other small diaspora populations are perfectly representative of their national averages. Note what Jason Malloy said about Lynn's work here: http://humanvarieties.org/2014/06/06/hvgiq-burma/comment-page-1/#comment-3390

    "A long time ago I checked through his China references and almost none of them even contained IQ data! It was totally baffling. I have 100s of Chinese studies, many of them in Chinese. I would love to start working on the China post, but it would be a crazy amount of work, and I would probably need a good Chinese collaborator.

    You are right, though. I have not carefully examined them, but many studies from rural China report IQ scores in the 90s, 80s and lower."

    I would bet those are strongly environmental, but the idea you can find high scores just about everywhere you go in China is a myth.
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  • Svigor says:

    Black people invented peanut butter, NOW CAN YOU DIG THAT SUCKAAAAAAA.

    It is the world’s most perfect survival food. Cheap, good shelf life, and packed with balanced calories.

    Every time you are in a hurry and have to wait at a stop light, thank the black man!

    Black Invention Myths

    Traffic Signal

    Invented by Garrett A. Morgan in 1923? Nope.

    The first known traffic signal appeared in London in 1868 near the Houses of Parliament. Designed by JP Knight, it featured two semaphore arms and two gas lamps. The earliest electric traffic lights include Lester Wire’s two-color version set up in Salt Lake City circa 1912, James Hoge’s system (US patent #1,251,666) installed in Cleveland by the American Traffic Signal Company in 1914, and William Potts’ 4-way red-yellow-green lights introduced in Detroit beginning in 1920. New York City traffic towers began flashing three-color signals also in 1920.

    Garrett Morgan’s cross-shaped, crank-operated semaphore was not among the first half-hundred patented traffic signals, nor was it “automatic” as is sometimes claimed, nor did it play any part in the evolution of the modern traffic light.

    But it is also important to look at the some of the most stupid and terrible and crazy things only White people do that other races generally do not.

    Once again, White Supremacy blinds YT to the real achievements of the black man:

    The death rate of the Rwandan Genocide far exceeded the death rate of the Jewish Holocaust

    So you see, even the highest estimates for the daily death rate of the Jewish holocaust are less than half of even the lowest estimates for the daily death rate of the Rwandan genocide. Hutus managed to (at minimum) double the vaunted efficiency of the Nazi holocaust against the Jews. In all likelihood, they were far more successful than a mere doubling; the proper figure (if we’re being ANTI-SEMITIC!!! and assuming the Jewish Holocaust wasn’t nearly as long a period as mainstream historians maintain, and go with 1939-1945 instead) is probably more like 2,350 daily rate, vs. 8,000 daily rate. Which is 3.4 times as efficient, not a mere doubling.

    If the Nazis had been as efficient as the Hutus, there would be no Jewish Holocaust survivors today. In fact, they’d have finished the job and killed all 9,000,000 Jews in Europe in only 1125 days, or roughly 3 years, start to finish, using nothing more sophisticated than an SMG. Hitler should’ve hired a Hutu to consult.

    And that’s all while using machetes as the primary weapon. Just think of what blacks could do, if YT hadn’t stolen all the black man’s modern military technology for themselves?

    If White men are Gods since 18th centry till now, then Han Chinese were Gods from 200BC till 1200AD.

    FIFY. But sure, own that first century, baby.

    The Roman Empire had a pretty good run.

    Whups. Make that “own those dark ages, baby.”

    One black invention the bros refuse to take credit for is slavery. I do agree that most current black ills come out of slavery

    I was just thinking about this in the context of (what I consider to be) the myth of greater black racism. I suspect that predisposition toward ethnocentrism is, like most such general traits, sorted along Rushton’s usual yellow>white>black or black>white>yellow arrangement. In other words, whites are probably intermediate between blacks and yellows in terms of ethnocentrism. Meaning, either blacks are naturally the most ethnocentric, and yellows the least, or yellows are naturally the most ethnocentric, and blacks the least. Then it occurred to me; yellows have no history of selling people of their own race to people of other races. And blacks have the world’s proudest tradition of selling people of their own race to people of other races. That would seem like a pretty substantial argument for my suspicion.

    You do know the intermarriage rate’s about 50%, right?

    You do know that (dubious figure) has fuck-all to do with miscegenation, right? Jews sweep the number of Jews who marry blacks under the rug year in, year out, because it’s an embarrassment to their phony pose of leftist values. The numbers might as well be a state secret.

    The greater evil is the murder of others, not the “Killing their own for unjust reasons”

    Insofar as I can divine what that means, it seems to be complete horseshit. Killing your own kind speaks of lower character than killing the other.

    Answer: Because those blacks have intermarried with whites (or interbred, as the case may be) in the last 100-odd years and tend to do better than than those–the unenslaved–who have not. Think before you post. This i s why we can’t have nice things.

    Wrong. Blacks living in white societies have dramatically higher standards of living, regardless of their levels of intermarriage. Blacks come here from Africa and enjoy those same standards of living (or better), fresh off the boat. This also explains why blacks are coming here (and anywhere else whites can be found) on boats from Africa. It also explains South Africa’s huge increases in black population, right on through the Apartheid years; blacks were jumping SA’s fence to get in because YT is where the high livin’ is.

    The author sounds like a spoiled rich kid telling the servants how important his Daddy is. Sorry, but you don’t get respect by inheritance.

    Tell me when you’ve achieved something similar to Einstein or Beethoven and I’ll evaluate on a case-by-case basis.

    The race produced them = white.

    Leftists love to hold up any black/brown/whatever with a pulse as a black/brown/whatever genius. Then they turn around and chastise whites for doing the same, because leftists are vile.

    But YT is definitely, DEFINITELY to be kept on the hook for black failure, forever and ever, amen. No problems with association-by-race when that comes up.

    Bliss says:

    /reading, begin scrolling.

    But how long did those dynasties last – surely not from 200BC to 1700 AD. The architecture and civil engineering of Rome was more advanced than China. I don’t recall any period where the architecture wasn’t more advanced in Europe.

    Chinese fortifications were for shit. Don’t bother looking for “Chinese castles,” there are none. Big part of why the Mongols conquered them.

    Maybe Fred is just tired of descendants of sub-saharan Africa, where nothing of value ever occurred, constantly talking about “white devils” or blaming whites for every ill or the Afrocentric drivel American blacks spew about Egypt being part of black heritage.

    Precisely. If leftists want to call white men the villains of history, they shouldn’t act butthurt when white men respond to the contrary.

    Ever heard of Lisa Bonet, Drake, Lenny Kravitz or Mark Ndesandjo?

    Well, that’s four accounted for.

    Whites deserve credit for creating the modern world, but whites also deserve blame for creating a lot of the problems we see today. Colonialism, communism, political correctness, feminism, etc etc.

    When you’re that big, even your farts matter.

    As for the yellow/Jewish supremacy rant…Jews follow whites around. Yellows follow whites around. ‘Nuff said.

    You’d think that these civilizations that had a head start of millennia wouldn’t have ended up so thoroughly outshined by us upstart barbarians, would you.

    You’d think that one would sting, but, consider the mentality of blacks/yellows/Jews who aren’t quite content with the rapid pace of white self-abnegation and suicide and…seek out the last few pockets of unreconstructed whites, to soak up HBD. It doesn’t paint a healthy mental picture.

    I don’t believe that Rome had anything to compare with the Grand Canal (canal system) of China – really a fantastic feat of civil engineering.

    I don’t believe China had anything to compare with The Roman Empire. Or, say, any given castle, ever.

    There may be no greater tribute to a society’s ingenuity and vision than Egypt’s Great Pyramid of Giza.

    I’d say toilet paper has it whipped.

    Somewhere in Mexico Fred Reed is chuckling…

    Opportunistic insurance fraud by black pastors must amuse him, then.

    Oh my, Fred. Burning witches was so -

    Sheesh, the psychos are thick in this thread. Let the scrolling begin anew…

    And black hooker “Bliss,” so more scrolling…

    White “chest thumping” = telling black/whatever chest-thumpers that they’re full of shit. Whites having the nerve to defy the powers of Leftism = “chest thumping.”

    Microcosm of leftist moral bankruptcy. But, what else can one expect from Team Darkie?

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    • Replies: @BBC
    @svigor

    the population growth of the black population in south Africa wasn't unique, other African countries had similar or higher growth, and people jumping fence, again other African countries had far more immigrants. The immigrants in south africa were brought in by the apartheid government to work in the mines. Get your facts straight.

    , @PandaAtWar
    People like you should do some research before making unfounded fantasy statements on Imperial China.

    The ancient China in the Spring and Autumn Period(770bc-476bc) and Warring States Period(475bc-221bc) thrived with great cultural and intellectual blossoming which was the result of the Hundred Schools of Thought. Some of the most outstanding philosophers and intellectuals such as Confucius, Lao zi, Zhang zi, Mo zi, Sun zi, Menfucious came from this time period. The ancient China was second to none in technology, academic achievements.

    The following Qin and Han dynasties were far ahead of both Greek and Roman civilizations in technologies, especially in military technologies and tactics, the ancient China was way ahead of Europe.

    The Qin Dynasty army would have easily made mincemeat out of Roman legions. The draw weight of the 6 dan leg-pulled Qin crossbow was about 400 pounds. Considering the strongest English longbow which had a draw weight of 160 pounds, could penetrate metal armour, the Qin crossbow bolts would have had no problem penetrating Roman shield and armour at once, plus they also had much more powerful winch-operated crossbows.. During the Warring State period, Qin soldiers were extremely well-trained and battle-hardy. The Qin Empire also had tactics unlike the Alexander de Great or the Romans. In their formation the Chinese at that time divided men into 5-men squads. They had two halberds, 2 spears and 1 long sword commander. The 2 halberdiers in front would hook the enemy's weapon and shield and swing it aside. The spearman would then skewer the enemy. This kind of fighting style would have decimated Alexander's army. Chinese also had Sarissas, in fact they were placed on all flanks except the front. Not to mention the crossbow itself would have decimated the pikemen.

    When you compare technologies overall between Ancient China (Qin, Han Tang, Song etc) and Greco-Roman world, there is little doubt China was WAY ahead. The comparison between two is not even funny!

    Han dynasty was much more powerful than Roman empire even regardless of time frames (i.e. peaks and lows). In terms of agriculture, metallurgy, ceramic, shipbuilding, textile, military technologies to name a few, Han Dynasty was so advanced that in many of these technologies Europe remained behind China until the Eve of the Industrial Revolution in the 19th century – think about that!. In terms of scholarship and medicine though, the achievements of both civilization were roughly the same though for the Han China and Roman Empire.


    Ancient Chinese also invented the military sphere more than 100 years before the Greeks. The Chinese were the first one who observed the sunspots. In technology, the ancient Chinese were highly developed. In Greco-Roman times, The Chinese invented compass( at this time only for land navigation),paper, cast iron, high-grade steel- making using cast iron, differential gear. These are only a few of the Chinese inventions. The Greeks and Romans did not have these things.


    The Han Chinese invented the cannon, the gun. the bomb, the land mine, the sea mine, the hand grenade, the rocket, the poison gas, the multi-stage rocket… all these things were later further developed by Europeans. Can you imagine the modern military without these Chinese inventions? As a matter of fact, Ming dynasty was the first modern gunpowder-weapon empire in the human history. Since you can’t read Chinese, for the related info in English, you can find all of these facts in SCIENCE AND CIVILIZATION IN CHINA by JOSEPH NEEDHAM and THE GENIUS OF CHINA by ROBERT TEMPLE. You will then find out how technologically advanced China was.


    In a way, ancient China was even much more democratic, yes, democratic, than your primtive "Greek Democracy" at a time. It is because of the civil examination system which was open to almost every male in imperial China, regardless of his social or financial status. This kind of highly developed social system couldn’t be found in Europe until quasi-modern age more than 1,500 years later.


    Contrary to popular myth, for a long long time Imperial China was, a very militaristic empire (that’s part of “bad” thing that Iingoistic Japan, a vassal and loyal disciple of Imperial China of "Anything-Chinese" for a good part of history, wholesale-copied from the Imperial China btw, which was particularly bitter when Japan turned against China at her weakest point in history - WW2 using the things that learned from China - yet this is just another point for another time), even though China generally believed in civilian supremacy. For the last 3000 years there has been continuous warfare in China.. This is one of the main reasons why we do not see today a lot of sophysticated ancient Chinese wooden buildings (go check Chinese ancient archtecture in Wiki) . The Mongol invasions, specially, destroyed a lot of them.


    There is a also misconception that China closed itself to the outside from the 16th century thru the 18th century. But this is not true.As a matter of fact there was a lot of trade between China and Europe. According to an economy-historian Andre Gunder Frank, about 40% of silver mined in the Americas ended up in China, because of the Europe's insatiable appetite for Chinese silk, porcelain silk. Also the Jesuits transferred a lot of advanced Chinese technologies to Europe.


    Throughout Ming and Qing dynasties, China integrated some advanced technologies from Europe through the Jesuits. But the Jesuits also transferred a lot more of advanced Chinese technologies to Europe. According to Adam Smith in 1776, China was richer and technologically more advanced than Europe. The Industrial Revolution made all the difference for both Europe and China. China fell behind in the 19th century, because it missed out on the Industrial Revolution.

    Also the Jesuits transferred some advanced European technologies such as mechanical clock - making and cannon- making to China. But China was ahead of Europe in many other technologies such as agricultural, metallurgical, shipbuilding, textile, ceramic, to name a few. In military technology, Europe was ahead of China in cannon and musket -making, but China was ahead in rocket and bomb- making technologies at the end of the18th century. Until the coming of the breach-loading rifle in the middle of the 19th century, the composite bow was far superior to the European musket in range and rate of fire.


    What is amazing, however, is the relative lack of innovations and creativities on the part of the Europeans , or the "Gods" in terminology of Fred, for 1,200 friggin years from 6th century to roughly 18th century. This is roughly the time period between the collapse Roman Empire and the Industrial Revolution. So called European inventions were nothing but copies, adaptations of original inventions of other civilizations such as the Chinese, and some from Islamic, etc. According to your Adam Smith in 1776, China was the richest and technologically most advanced country in the world at a time. And you probably will even try to deny that as well. ROFL.

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  • @Bill Jones
    There has been a deliberate and consistent export of Western technologies to asia since the 1970's: just as it was transferred to the Soviet Union starting in the 1920's.

    James Corbett is very good on this (and many other topics)
    Did you know about Mao's links to Yale?

    https://www.corbettreport.com/china-and-the-new-world-order-video/

    Thanks for the link , but I don’t know what’s your point trying to be made out of it, because the fact is that the East and West have been constantly (some not being deliberate though) exchanging ideas and technologies for 10s of millenia, mostly with direction of China to the West except the most modern time, so?

    http://afe.easia.columbia.edu/song/readings/inventions_gifts.htm

    Furthermore, perhaps you could distinguish what is “transfer” in your context for the following very different scenarios:

    1. selling for profits centain low level tech, which the receiving side would figure out itself on their sooner or later

    2. giving low tech for free, in the spirit of philanthropy

    3. giving low level tech for free, in the hope of sth (more) valuable, material or otherwise, at the later stage

    4. selling for profits centain high level tech, which the receiving side would figure out itself on their sooner or later

    5. giving high level tech for free, in the spirit of philanthropy

    6. giving high level tech for free, inexchange of sth (more) valuable, material or otherwise, at the later stage

    What you don’t so, however, is to mixed them all up with “transfer”, because that’s just plainly misleading.

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  • @Bbc
    China is a great under achiever, just imagine how much a country with over a billion Germans or even Italians can achieve. Most of the innovation comes from theft.

    @Most of the innovation comes from theft

    You mean theft of Chinese innovations by the Italians (noodles) or Brits (tea)? Or older, Romans (silk)?

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  • @Truth

    The white man gives with 1 hand, and takes 3 with the other hands, that’s the problem

     

    When the White Mon first came to our region, we had a herd of cattle, and he had a stack of bibles.

    Twenty years later, he had a herd of cattle, and we had a stack of bibles.

    -Bishop Desmond Tutu

    All right, but apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh-water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?

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  • China is a great under achiever, just imagine how much a country with over a billion Germans or even Italians can achieve. Most of the innovation comes from theft.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Seraphim
    @Most of the innovation comes from theft

    You mean theft of Chinese innovations by the Italians (noodles) or Brits (tea)? Or older, Romans (silk)?
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  • @PandaAtWar

    Why does the claim have problems on it’s own? The Japanese (and to a lesser extent, the Koeans) have accomplished far more than the Chinese in recent times, especially in proportions to their numbers, and this was the opposite in the past.
     
    Panda is afraid that probably you´re slightly out of date on this.

    World scientific communities usually don´t use vague terms such as `who seems accomplished more than whom` you do , can you believe that?

    Instead, the world at large has an organisation called WIPO, which measures global innovation , patents, and developent trend on a yearly country-by-country industry-by-industry basis.

    Here is a Reuter report on this from the last month ( you can google up the details of WIPO 2014 yearbook to see why Panda said such):


    Thomson Reuters has published The Future Is Open: 2015 State of Innovation. The report treats patents as a “proxy for innovation” in its analysis of the future of innovation and innovation activity across various sectors of industry.

    Twelve sectors are examined in the report in relation to research and patent activity: Aerospace & Defense; Automotive; Biotechnology; Cosmetics & Wellbeing; Food, Beverage & Tobacco; Home Appliances; Information Technology; Medical Devices; Oil & Gas; Pharmaceuticals; Semiconductors; and Telecommunications.


    Innovation and the Role of Patents

    The report considers the role of patents as a measurement, indicator or “proxy” for innovation. An analysis of patent statistics can offer insight into the state of innovation across sectors of industry, it says.

    While patent information can be demonstrative of a company’s value, the report says, it is not just the quantity of patents that highlights innovation but rather the type of inventions that are being patented in addition to the level of research that is going into the invention.
    The report states that scientific literature is a “precursor to patenting by approximately three-to-five years,” as scientific research leads discovery.
    In order to determine the state of research and innovation, scientific research is assessed alongside patent activity.

    The report analyses the state of innovation in each of the sectors:

    Aerospace & Defense
    The most influential aerospace research hails from the US, particularly from the University of Michigan, which published 446 papers from 2004 to 2014 with a relative citation impact of 1.78.
    The report states that commercial and defence organisations are looking to innovators to help them succeed in changing markets that are full of competitive challenges. These organisations are seeking more value, capability and reliability in a quicker and more affordable manner.

    Automotive
    Again, the University of Michigan came out on top for scientific research in the automotive industry, with the publication of 324 papers from 2004 to 2014.
    The report observes that while improvements in safety and environmental performance of vehicles has continued, substantial investment is needed in hydrogen propulsion technology. Additionally, establishing more recharging stations will allow for the growth of battery electric vehicles.

    Biotechnology
    The most influential research institution in biotechnology is the Broad Institute in the US. Some 392 papers were published from 2004 to 2014 with a relative citation impact of 7.54.
    The report states that both academic and corporate innovators are developing possibilities for an “individual-based approach” to medicine and this will lead to “targeted drugs in treatment strategies that address the unique make-up of a human being.”

    Cosmetics & Wellbeing
    The University of Sao Paulo led the research for the cosmetics and wellbeing industry with the publication of 153 papers.
    The report states that the industry is expected to reach $630 billion in revenue by 2017.
    Peta Leggatt, pharmaceutical and technical expert at Thomson Reuters, said in the report that, “Like many other sectors, the cosmetics and well-being industry is evolving in pace with new technological and chemical advancements.”

    Food, Beverage, Tobacco
    The University of British Columbia was the leader of the scientific research institutions with the publication of 400 papers related to this industry from 2004 to 2014 with a relative citation impact of 1.99.
    China led the innovation in the industry, with 70 percent of the top 10 innovators coming from China.
    The report notes that the food industry is moving away from processed foods due to demands for healthier foods.

    Home Appliances
    The most prolific scientific research institution for home appliances is the University of Zaragoza in Spain with the publication of 102 papers.
    The report states that the public is throwing away appliances that still work. Additionally, it notes the challenges innovators face in embracing “function, fashion and overall fitness for purpose,” in addition to the extension of the “purposeful life of domestic appliances.”

    Information Technology
    Technical University Czestochowa in Poland was the leader of the most influential scientific-research institutions in computer science, with the publication of 348 papers with a relative citation impact of 6.26, with the other top institutions hailing from the US, UK, France and Israel.
    The report notes that due to the recent news of the acquisition of Nest Labs (a smoke detector and thermostat developer) by Google, the world is now on “the verge of a race for control of the smart home.”

    Medical Devices
    The US is the world leader for medical device-related research. The top 10 institutions are from the US. Leading these is the US Food and Drug Administration which published 201 papers, and Harvard University which published 166 papers from 2004 to 2014.
    Innovation in the medical device industry sees the development of microneedle patches and electroceuticals.
    This bioelectric innovation will allow professionals in healthcare to “target a specific nerve and modify electrical impulses to treat the problem,” it says..

    Oil & Gas
    Imperial College London and the US Department of Energy led the research institutions, publishing 128 and 111 papers, respectively.
    China is shown as the most innovative region in the Oil & Gas sector with companies Sinopec and PetroChina taking the financial lead for 2014’s top five petroleum innovators globally.
    The report notes “the short-term scramble for the planet’s remaining fossil-fuel resources raises political pressures that can only get more difficult in the long term.” Therefore, innovation in the oil and gas industry will focus on speeding up the capture of these resources.

    Pharmaceuticals
    Goethe University Frankfurt Hospital in Germany took the lead for research institutions, publishing 392 papers with a relative citation impact of 4.87.
    But China took the lead as the most innovative globally, with the Chinese Academy of Sciences taking the top spot for the 2014 financials of the top five pharmaceutical innovators globally, followed by Roche in Switzerland.
    The future of innovation in this sector is focused on mass market “blockbuster” drugs. This is despite the “dawn of genomics-driven, target based drug discovery,” it says. “The future of medicines is individual, genomics-driven, target-based drug discovery, but the near future is all about yet more mass market, blockbuster drugs that reap the billions the pharma industry has invested in the Innovation lifecycle.”
    The report notes that controversy surrounds blockbuster drugs, for example, in relation to hepatitis C drugs. Sovaldi costs $84,000 for a course of treatment and Harvoni costs $95,000 for a course of treatment. Nevertheless, by 2019, these drugs are expected to have multi-billion dollar sales.
    Jon Brett Harris, managing director of Thomson Reuters Life Sciences, said in the report, “biosimilars must deliver the power of the reference drugs at a price developing countries can afford and gain the confidence of the marketplace.”

    Semiconductors
    The leading research institution is the Chinese Academy of Sciences in China, publishing 6,425 papers between 2004 and 2014.
    This sector is in a “transitional” phase, the report said. Manufacturers are looking for partners via open innovation.


    Telecommunication

    The institution leading research is Rice University in the US, publishing 323 papers between 2004 and 2014 with a relative citation impact of 4.31.
    Samsung (South Korea) and Huawei (China) led the 2014 financials for the top five mobile telephony innovators globally.
    The report notes that telecoms and mobile telephone are increasingly expanding and that the “time is ripe for consolidation.”

    http://www.ip-watch.org/2015/06/04/report-patent-activity-at-a-high-but-decline-in-scientific-research/


     

    Alternatively, check WIPO 2014 summary:

    Geneva, March 19, 2015

    Three telecoms giants from China and the United States led international patent filing activity via WIPO in 2014, a fifth consecutive record-breaking year amid overall growth in the Organization’s global intellectual property services.

    Together, China and the U.S. accounted for 87% of the total growth in filings under WIPO’s Patent Cooperation Treaty (PCT), which saw some 215,000 applications in 2014, a 4.5% increase over the previous year. In a significant development, the U.S. became the biggest filer of international trademark applications under WIPO’s Madrid System.

    “The rapid growth in international patent applications underscores the increasing importance of intellectual property as it moves from the periphery to the center of the global economic system,” said WIPO Director General Francis Gurry on the release of WIPO’s annual review of its IP-filing and dispute resolution activities. “We are pleased that our filing services provide effective and efficient support for managing this trend.”

    Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd. of China, with 3,442 published PCT applications, overtook Panasonic Corp. of Japan as the largest applicant in 2014. U.S.-based Qualcomm Inc. was the second largest applicant in 2014, with 2,409 published applications, while China’s ZTE Corp. took third place with 2,179 PCT applications. (Annex 1 PDF, Annex 1: Top PCT applicants).

    The U.S. was the primary country of origin for PCT filers in 2014, with 61,492 applications and 7.1% growth. Japan followed with 42,459 applications, representing a 3% decline on 2013. Applicants from China filed 25,539 applications – an 18.7% annual increase.

    Europe showed signs of improvement as it strives to address a challenging economic environment. For the first time since 2007, the top three E.U. countries recorded growth in PCT filings, with strong growth coming from France and the United Kingdom. (Annex 2 PDF, Annex 2: PCT international applications by origin).
    PCT System

    PCT filing trends

    Among the top 10 PCT filing countries, China (+18.7%) is the only country that saw double-digit growth in 2014. The U.K. recorded the second fastest growth rate (+9%), followed by the US (+7.1%). In addition to Japan, Switzerland (-5.9%) and Sweden (-0.5%) are the two other countries among the top ten with fewer PCT applications in 2014 than in 2013.

    After China, India (1,394) is the largest user of the PCT system among BRICS countries, followed by the Russian Federation (890), Brazil (581) and South Africa (297). However, their growth rates differ, with Brazil (-11.6%), the Russian Federations (-25.3%) and South Africa (-15.4%) showing declines, while filings originating from India increased by 5.6%. Turkey (802), Malaysia (314) and Mexico (284) are other middle-income countries seeing considerable filing activity under the PCT.

    Top PCT applicants

    The top three applicants have similar patent filing profiles, with digital communication accounting for the bulk of their total filings. Digital communication accounted for two-thirds of all PCT applications filed by Huawei, followed by computer technology and telecommunications, with each field accounting for 11% of the total. Qualcomm had a similar PCT filing profile to that of Huawei, with digital communication accounting for two-fifths of their total applications, followed by computer technology (18%), audio-visual technology (11%) and telecommunications (10%). As for ZTE, digital communication accounted for slightly over three-fifths of all filings, followed by computer technology (14%) and telecommunications (13%).

    Among the top 50 applicants, Huawei (+1,332) saw the largest increases in PCT filings, followed by Tencent Technology Co. of China (+727) and Microsoft Corp. of the US (+652). In contrast, Panasonic Corp. (-1,157) and Sharp Kabushiki Kaisha of Japan (-612) saw the largest declines (Annex 1 PDF, Annex 1: Top PCT applicants).

    The University of California, with 413 published applications, is the top applicant among educational institutions followed by the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (234), the University of Texas System (154) and Harvard University (147). US universities occupy 9 of the top 10 positions among educational institutions.

    The only non-U.S. university in the top ten is Seoul National University of the Republic of Korea – ranked in the tenth position. Annex 3 PDF, Annex 3: Top PCT applicants for educational institutions reports data for the top 50 applicants among educational institutions.

    PCT filings by field of technology

    Computer technology with 17,653 published applications – or 8.4% of the total – accounted for the largest share of PCT applications, followed by digital communication (7.7%) and electronic machinery (7.3%). Annex 4 PDF, Annex 4: PCT international applications by field of technology reports data for 35 different technology fields. Amongst the top 10 fields, computer technology saw the fastest growth (+19.4%), followed by medical technology (+17.1%) and digital communication (+14.5%). The share of computer technology filings in total applications has increased from 3% in 1990 to 8% in 2014. Similarly, the share of digital communications has increased from less than 1% in 1990 to 8% in 2014. Microsoft is the top applicant for computer technology, followed by Intel Corp. and Tencent Technology.

    While pharmaceutical patent filings experienced an upward trend up to 2007, they have since stagnated. Relative to total applications, the share of pharmaceutical patenting via the PCT has continuously declined since 2007. Pharmaceutical patents represent the seventh largest field. Merck Sharp & Dohme Corp. is the largest filer with 171 applications, followed by Novartis AG (141), F. Hoffmann-La Roche AG (135) and the University of California (111).

    Universities and public research organizations show a strong presence in this field, accounting for 26% of pharmaceutical PCT filings. This is in contrast to computer technology and digital communication where these entities accounted for 4.6% and 2.8%, respectively.

    http://www.wipo.int/pressroom/en/articles/2015/article_0004.html


     

    There has been a deliberate and consistent export of Western technologies to asia since the 1970′s: just as it was transferred to the Soviet Union starting in the 1920′s.

    James Corbett is very good on this (and many other topics)
    Did you know about Mao’s links to Yale?

    https://www.corbettreport.com/china-and-the-new-world-order-video/

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    • Replies: @PandaAtWar
    Thanks for the link , but I don't know what's your point trying to be made out of it, because the fact is that the East and West have been constantly (some not being deliberate though) exchanging ideas and technologies for 10s of millenia, mostly with direction of China to the West except the most modern time, so?

    http://afe.easia.columbia.edu/song/readings/inventions_gifts.htm

    Furthermore, perhaps you could distinguish what is "transfer" in your context for the following very different scenarios:

    1. selling for profits centain low level tech, which the receiving side would figure out itself on their sooner or later

    2. giving low tech for free, in the spirit of philanthropy

    3. giving low level tech for free, in the hope of sth (more) valuable, material or otherwise, at the later stage

    4. selling for profits centain high level tech, which the receiving side would figure out itself on their sooner or later

    5. giving high level tech for free, in the spirit of philanthropy

    6. giving high level tech for free, inexchange of sth (more) valuable, material or otherwise, at the later stage

    What you don't so, however, is to mixed them all up with "transfer", because that's just plainly misleading.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Truth
    One of the things I learned in science as a child that has stuck to me to this day (and I don't know if it is still true) is that the Egyptian Pyramids could not be built to the specification they were, using any technology known to man in the 1980s.

    The theory of the geopolymeric Pyramids encountered an unsurprising fierce opposition from the traditional archeologists and egyptologysts. One of the reason being that it shattered the entrenched image of the enormous masses of slaves forced to build useless constructions for the oppressive tyrants called Pharaohs. Image supposed to be the illustration of the Biblical story of the enslavement, deliverance and exodus of the Israelites, the founding myth of Israel.

    Demonstration that the technology applied for the construction of the Pyramids (and other buildings) required but a small number of people (confirmed by the excavations in the living quarters of the builders) risks to cast a long shadow of doubt on the myth. There are serious doubts, extremely plausible that the Israelites never touched the soil of Egypt. (@”Egypt knew no Pharaohs nor Israelites”, Kindle Edition, by Ashraf Ezzat)

    The technology was not too complicated. A good summary at:
    @http://www.geopolymer.org/archaeology/pyramids/are-pyramids-made-out-of-concrete-1

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  • @cowboy shaw
    In Rugby union, which is a sport increasingly dominated by Polynesians, who have the largest muscle mass and explosivity of any race on the planet, the acknowledged greatest player of all is the Scots decsent NZ captain Richie macaw. In a sport where drugs might go down quite well he appears to not be on them and out performs everyone through innate stamina and intelligence. West African players in England have made very little impact in the sport to date.

    True. I caught a show once of the Maoris pumping themselves up before a game, and they looked like a really scary bunch!

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  • @Dipwill
    I was going to write a more detailed reply, but then I realized I wasn't debating with someone who was criticizing asians a whole, that you're some kind of chinese nationalist (who frequently refers to themselves in the third person, as "Panda", likely due to aspergers- and what else could explain thinking I meant all of Korea and not just the south?) who doesn't like to hear that his people haven't been doing as well in China proper now than they did in the past. I'm largely on "your side" (though I don't think the east asian IQ is as high as 105-107, especially China, as oft-claimed in these discussions) in this thread, but anything that upsets your view of Chinese supremacy isn't going to fly I guess.

    I noticed that… But still, some of your assertions are just not correct. Panda is not some kind of supermacist per se if you carefully look at the claims. Panda is both rational and logical. On this matter, Panda claimed that

    1. # of Nobel Prizes or any individual prizes of any nature can only be used to (fully) justify that prize-winners are very smart and lucky individuals, and total # might have some weak correlations with the general IQ of the populations they represent, and perhaps more correlation with GDP/cap actually. However, it/they can not be put forward in a serious argument, becasue they are LOTS of non-trial key factors invloved in deciding the individual prizes (e.g. Nobel or Field Medal) apart from IQ or `creativity`. If some argue otherwise, North/South Korea, Chinese mainland/Taiwan-HK-Singapore, East Germany/West Germany, amongst others, are the vivid counterproofs.

    2. The popular , and default (avg IQ=90), perception of global masses nowadays (thanks to MSM )is somewhat Japan>S Korea > China mainland. One can see plenty of such generalisations in internet fora. This perception is right only to some extend such as GDP/cap, and some industrail sectors (that requires time-experiences accumulation as the biggest driver to develop rather than brains, in which with 100 years jump start on industrilisation Japan naturally and logically leads S Korea and China – yet that doesn´t neccesarily prove anything), etc.

    But from larger historical, or current, or forseeable future, perspectives, this popular perception is dead wrong! It´s simplely because history shows the exactly opposite: China>>>>> Korea > Japan for almost entire history, except your great grandpa, your grandpa, your dad, and part of yours 3,5 generations – a tiny flash in pan in a time line. So intellectually curious minds can not avoid the obvious question here : why? why this abnormal flash of time was- is possible after all? instead of blindly following the masses.

    So apple to apple comparison of current Mainland China and South Korea or Japan in most cases are just nuts, because they are not even at the same starting line. It´s just as nuts as comparing what North Koreans and Eastern Germans have achieved on the world stage Vs South Koreans and Western Germens corrspondingly at their time. Does it mean anything to you?

    Considering China mainland under Communist control is now not that far away from North Korea or former East Germany on most perspectives, Panda would argue that the mainland Chinese, with `minds and hands` tied up, have been showcasing extraoridinary level of IQ and creativity (way more than 105 in many cases, judging from WIPO etc) Vs. S Koreans or Japanese or Americans or Europeans who actually have an open free society where scientists and researchers have been allowed almost completely (some PC topics aside) free-hand to do/imagine/create anything they like for about 100-200 years now, unlike the Han Chinese inside Communist party-controlled China. From this angle, smart ones can already detect to a certain extend who is indeed more capable.

    3, Panda has never claimed that China has avg IQ of 105-107. In fact some curent evidences show that China probably has avg IQ of 102.3, because about 10% of China are not Han Chinese but Tibetans, Uyguers, and some half breed Hui Muslims. For some sizable Han Chinese clans, Panda would argue, they could have avg IQ >110 as some tests have shown, while other Han Chinese clans being 105 or so.

    What´s wrong with these claims? Labeling Panda as Nationalist or Supermacist doesn´t neccesarily make Panda wrong or others right in the arguments.

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  • @PandaAtWar
    If White men are Gods since 18th centry till now, then Han Chinese were Gods from 200BC till 1700AD.

    450 to 1450, Year of Our LORD

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  • @PandaAtWar
    To be honest, your 1st paragrpah almost moved Panda into tears...Panda thought there was some hope to the general intelligence of average humans... Having in mind there must be billions out there who think just like you on the issue, Panda is now marveled by the global impact of MSM to the the magical brain power of global masses(who have avg IQ of 90 btw), therefore feels a bit tired to repeat it again, again, again, and again...

    for a simpler answer, pls go here

    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/national-wealth-and-iq/

    post #168

    ------------

    As for your 2nd parapgragh...


    `but while Korea is certainly catching up to Japan...`
     
    Hello Martian, the planet Earth here: I am very sorry but I gotta inform you that on this planet where Kim Jong-un is certainly catching up to Sierra Leon rather than Japan or Capan.

    Is that too much a requirement to you to gather some of your IQ to think first and ask yourself a simple question WHO IS KOREA in your claim? ...yeah right, that was exactly Panda´s point in the previous reply, was it not? ROFL

    I was going to write a more detailed reply, but then I realized I wasn’t debating with someone who was criticizing asians a whole, that you’re some kind of chinese nationalist (who frequently refers to themselves in the third person, as “Panda”, likely due to aspergers- and what else could explain thinking I meant all of Korea and not just the south?) who doesn’t like to hear that his people haven’t been doing as well in China proper now than they did in the past. I’m largely on “your side” (though I don’t think the east asian IQ is as high as 105-107, especially China, as oft-claimed in these discussions) in this thread, but anything that upsets your view of Chinese supremacy isn’t going to fly I guess.

    Read More
    • Replies: @PandaAtWar
    I noticed that... But still, some of your assertions are just not correct. Panda is not some kind of supermacist per se if you carefully look at the claims. Panda is both rational and logical. On this matter, Panda claimed that


    1. # of Nobel Prizes or any individual prizes of any nature can only be used to (fully) justify that prize-winners are very smart and lucky individuals, and total # might have some weak correlations with the general IQ of the populations they represent, and perhaps more correlation with GDP/cap actually. However, it/they can not be put forward in a serious argument, becasue they are LOTS of non-trial key factors invloved in deciding the individual prizes (e.g. Nobel or Field Medal) apart from IQ or `creativity`. If some argue otherwise, North/South Korea, Chinese mainland/Taiwan-HK-Singapore, East Germany/West Germany, amongst others, are the vivid counterproofs.

    2. The popular , and default (avg IQ=90), perception of global masses nowadays (thanks to MSM )is somewhat Japan>S Korea > China mainland. One can see plenty of such generalisations in internet fora. This perception is right only to some extend such as GDP/cap, and some industrail sectors (that requires time-experiences accumulation as the biggest driver to develop rather than brains, in which with 100 years jump start on industrilisation Japan naturally and logically leads S Korea and China - yet that doesn´t neccesarily prove anything), etc.

    But from larger historical, or current, or forseeable future, perspectives, this popular perception is dead wrong! It´s simplely because history shows the exactly opposite: China>>>>> Korea > Japan for almost entire history, except your great grandpa, your grandpa, your dad, and part of yours 3,5 generations - a tiny flash in pan in a time line. So intellectually curious minds can not avoid the obvious question here : why? why this abnormal flash of time was- is possible after all? instead of blindly following the masses.

    So apple to apple comparison of current Mainland China and South Korea or Japan in most cases are just nuts, because they are not even at the same starting line. It´s just as nuts as comparing what North Koreans and Eastern Germans have achieved on the world stage Vs South Koreans and Western Germens corrspondingly at their time. Does it mean anything to you?

    Considering China mainland under Communist control is now not that far away from North Korea or former East Germany on most perspectives, Panda would argue that the mainland Chinese, with `minds and hands` tied up, have been showcasing extraoridinary level of IQ and creativity (way more than 105 in many cases, judging from WIPO etc) Vs. S Koreans or Japanese or Americans or Europeans who actually have an open free society where scientists and researchers have been allowed almost completely (some PC topics aside) free-hand to do/imagine/create anything they like for about 100-200 years now, unlike the Han Chinese inside Communist party-controlled China. From this angle, smart ones can already detect to a certain extend who is indeed more capable.

    3, Panda has never claimed that China has avg IQ of 105-107. In fact some curent evidences show that China probably has avg IQ of 102.3, because about 10% of China are not Han Chinese but Tibetans, Uyguers, and some half breed Hui Muslims. For some sizable Han Chinese clans, Panda would argue, they could have avg IQ >110 as some tests have shown, while other Han Chinese clans being 105 or so.


    What´s wrong with these claims? Labeling Panda as Nationalist or Supermacist doesn´t neccesarily make Panda wrong or others right in the arguments.

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Dipwill
    Wow, you really changed my views, some random internet commentator on Unz claimed the nobel prize is an "intellectually stupid tool" used by the MSM to "justify something." You know, I think there really might be nepotism with the nobel prize (especially in regards to jews), but yeah, it's a pretty good metric for intellectual accomplishment, that just about anybody who's won it in a scientific field has exhibited remarkable scientific accomplishments.

    Why does the claim have problems on it's own? The Japanese (and to a lesser extent, the Koeans) have accomplished far more than the Chinese in recent times, especially in proportions to their numbers, and this was the opposite in the past. That's pretty uncontroversial and easily verifiable, the vast overwhelming majority of major accomplishments in east asia came from China in the past, with Japan and Korea way, way, way behind. In fact, I think Korea had more unique inventions and discoveries than Japan did in pre-modern times, but while Korea is certainly catching up to Japan, they've yet to produce a single nobel prize winner other than one in peace (which I won't deny is overwhelmingly useless) in 2000.

    Why does the claim have problems on it’s own? The Japanese (and to a lesser extent, the Koeans) have accomplished far more than the Chinese in recent times, especially in proportions to their numbers, and this was the opposite in the past.

    Panda is afraid that probably you´re slightly out of date on this.

    World scientific communities usually don´t use vague terms such as `who seems accomplished more than whom` you do , can you believe that?

    Instead, the world at large has an organisation called WIPO, which measures global innovation , patents, and developent trend on a yearly country-by-country industry-by-industry basis.

    Here is a Reuter report on this from the last month ( you can google up the details of WIPO 2014 yearbook to see why Panda said such):

    Thomson Reuters has published The Future Is Open: 2015 State of Innovation. The report treats patents as a “proxy for innovation” in its analysis of the future of innovation and innovation activity across various sectors of industry.

    Twelve sectors are examined in the report in relation to research and patent activity: Aerospace & Defense; Automotive; Biotechnology; Cosmetics & Wellbeing; Food, Beverage & Tobacco; Home Appliances; Information Technology; Medical Devices; Oil & Gas; Pharmaceuticals; Semiconductors; and Telecommunications.

    Innovation and the Role of Patents

    The report considers the role of patents as a measurement, indicator or “proxy” for innovation. An analysis of patent statistics can offer insight into the state of innovation across sectors of industry, it says.

    While patent information can be demonstrative of a company’s value, the report says, it is not just the quantity of patents that highlights innovation but rather the type of inventions that are being patented in addition to the level of research that is going into the invention.
    The report states that scientific literature is a “precursor to patenting by approximately three-to-five years,” as scientific research leads discovery.
    In order to determine the state of research and innovation, scientific research is assessed alongside patent activity.

    The report analyses the state of innovation in each of the sectors:

    Aerospace & Defense
    The most influential aerospace research hails from the US, particularly from the University of Michigan, which published 446 papers from 2004 to 2014 with a relative citation impact of 1.78.
    The report states that commercial and defence organisations are looking to innovators to help them succeed in changing markets that are full of competitive challenges. These organisations are seeking more value, capability and reliability in a quicker and more affordable manner.

    Automotive
    Again, the University of Michigan came out on top for scientific research in the automotive industry, with the publication of 324 papers from 2004 to 2014.
    The report observes that while improvements in safety and environmental performance of vehicles has continued, substantial investment is needed in hydrogen propulsion technology. Additionally, establishing more recharging stations will allow for the growth of battery electric vehicles.

    Biotechnology
    The most influential research institution in biotechnology is the Broad Institute in the US. Some 392 papers were published from 2004 to 2014 with a relative citation impact of 7.54.
    The report states that both academic and corporate innovators are developing possibilities for an “individual-based approach” to medicine and this will lead to “targeted drugs in treatment strategies that address the unique make-up of a human being.”

    Cosmetics & Wellbeing
    The University of Sao Paulo led the research for the cosmetics and wellbeing industry with the publication of 153 papers.
    The report states that the industry is expected to reach $630 billion in revenue by 2017.
    Peta Leggatt, pharmaceutical and technical expert at Thomson Reuters, said in the report that, “Like many other sectors, the cosmetics and well-being industry is evolving in pace with new technological and chemical advancements.”

    Food, Beverage, Tobacco
    The University of British Columbia was the leader of the scientific research institutions with the publication of 400 papers related to this industry from 2004 to 2014 with a relative citation impact of 1.99.
    China led the innovation in the industry, with 70 percent of the top 10 innovators coming from China.
    The report notes that the food industry is moving away from processed foods due to demands for healthier foods.

    Home Appliances
    The most prolific scientific research institution for home appliances is the University of Zaragoza in Spain with the publication of 102 papers.
    The report states that the public is throwing away appliances that still work. Additionally, it notes the challenges innovators face in embracing “function, fashion and overall fitness for purpose,” in addition to the extension of the “purposeful life of domestic appliances.”

    Information Technology
    Technical University Czestochowa in Poland was the leader of the most influential scientific-research institutions in computer science, with the publication of 348 papers with a relative citation impact of 6.26, with the other top institutions hailing from the US, UK, France and Israel.
    The report notes that due to the recent news of the acquisition of Nest Labs (a smoke detector and thermostat developer) by Google, the world is now on “the verge of a race for control of the smart home.”

    Medical Devices
    The US is the world leader for medical device-related research. The top 10 institutions are from the US. Leading these is the US Food and Drug Administration which published 201 papers, and Harvard University which published 166 papers from 2004 to 2014.
    Innovation in the medical device industry sees the development of microneedle patches and electroceuticals.
    This bioelectric innovation will allow professionals in healthcare to “target a specific nerve and modify electrical impulses to treat the problem,” it says..

    Oil & Gas
    Imperial College London and the US Department of Energy led the research institutions, publishing 128 and 111 papers, respectively.
    China is shown as the most innovative region in the Oil & Gas sector with companies Sinopec and PetroChina taking the financial lead for 2014’s top five petroleum innovators globally.
    The report notes “the short-term scramble for the planet’s remaining fossil-fuel resources raises political pressures that can only get more difficult in the long term.” Therefore, innovation in the oil and gas industry will focus on speeding up the capture of these resources.

    Pharmaceuticals
    Goethe University Frankfurt Hospital in Germany took the lead for research institutions, publishing 392 papers with a relative citation impact of 4.87.
    But China took the lead as the most innovative globally, with the Chinese Academy of Sciences taking the top spot for the 2014 financials of the top five pharmaceutical innovators globally, followed by Roche in Switzerland.
    The future of innovation in this sector is focused on mass market “blockbuster” drugs. This is despite the “dawn of genomics-driven, target based drug discovery,” it says. “The future of medicines is individual, genomics-driven, target-based drug discovery, but the near future is all about yet more mass market, blockbuster drugs that reap the billions the pharma industry has invested in the Innovation lifecycle.”
    The report notes that controversy surrounds blockbuster drugs, for example, in relation to hepatitis C drugs. Sovaldi costs $84,000 for a course of treatment and Harvoni costs $95,000 for a course of treatment. Nevertheless, by 2019, these drugs are expected to have multi-billion dollar sales.
    Jon Brett Harris, managing director of Thomson Reuters Life Sciences, said in the report, “biosimilars must deliver the power of the reference drugs at a price developing countries can afford and gain the confidence of the marketplace.”

    Semiconductors
    The leading research institution is the Chinese Academy of Sciences in China, publishing 6,425 papers between 2004 and 2014.
    This sector is in a “transitional” phase, the report said. Manufacturers are looking for partners via open innovation.


    Telecommunication

    The institution leading research is Rice University in the US, publishing 323 papers between 2004 and 2014 with a relative citation impact of 4.31.
    Samsung (South Korea) and Huawei (China) led the 2014 financials for the top five mobile telephony innovators globally.
    The report notes that telecoms and mobile telephone are increasingly expanding and that the “time is ripe for consolidation.”

    http://www.ip-watch.org/2015/06/04/report-patent-activity-at-a-high-but-decline-in-scientific-research/

    Alternatively, check WIPO 2014 summary:

    Geneva, March 19, 2015

    Three telecoms giants from China and the United States led international patent filing activity via WIPO in 2014, a fifth consecutive record-breaking year amid overall growth in the Organization’s global intellectual property services.

    Together, China and the U.S. accounted for 87% of the total growth in filings under WIPO’s Patent Cooperation Treaty (PCT), which saw some 215,000 applications in 2014, a 4.5% increase over the previous year. In a significant development, the U.S. became the biggest filer of international trademark applications under WIPO’s Madrid System.

    “The rapid growth in international patent applications underscores the increasing importance of intellectual property as it moves from the periphery to the center of the global economic system,” said WIPO Director General Francis Gurry on the release of WIPO’s annual review of its IP-filing and dispute resolution activities. “We are pleased that our filing services provide effective and efficient support for managing this trend.”

    Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd. of China, with 3,442 published PCT applications, overtook Panasonic Corp. of Japan as the largest applicant in 2014. U.S.-based Qualcomm Inc. was the second largest applicant in 2014, with 2,409 published applications, while China’s ZTE Corp. took third place with 2,179 PCT applications. (Annex 1 PDF, Annex 1: Top PCT applicants).

    The U.S. was the primary country of origin for PCT filers in 2014, with 61,492 applications and 7.1% growth. Japan followed with 42,459 applications, representing a 3% decline on 2013. Applicants from China filed 25,539 applications – an 18.7% annual increase.

    Europe showed signs of improvement as it strives to address a challenging economic environment. For the first time since 2007, the top three E.U. countries recorded growth in PCT filings, with strong growth coming from France and the United Kingdom. (Annex 2 PDF, Annex 2: PCT international applications by origin).
    PCT System

    PCT filing trends

    Among the top 10 PCT filing countries, China (+18.7%) is the only country that saw double-digit growth in 2014. The U.K. recorded the second fastest growth rate (+9%), followed by the US (+7.1%). In addition to Japan, Switzerland (-5.9%) and Sweden (-0.5%) are the two other countries among the top ten with fewer PCT applications in 2014 than in 2013.

    After China, India (1,394) is the largest user of the PCT system among BRICS countries, followed by the Russian Federation (890), Brazil (581) and South Africa (297). However, their growth rates differ, with Brazil (-11.6%), the Russian Federations (-25.3%) and South Africa (-15.4%) showing declines, while filings originating from India increased by 5.6%. Turkey (802), Malaysia (314) and Mexico (284) are other middle-income countries seeing considerable filing activity under the PCT.

    Top PCT applicants

    The top three applicants have similar patent filing profiles, with digital communication accounting for the bulk of their total filings. Digital communication accounted for two-thirds of all PCT applications filed by Huawei, followed by computer technology and telecommunications, with each field accounting for 11% of the total. Qualcomm had a similar PCT filing profile to that of Huawei, with digital communication accounting for two-fifths of their total applications, followed by computer technology (18%), audio-visual technology (11%) and telecommunications (10%). As for ZTE, digital communication accounted for slightly over three-fifths of all filings, followed by computer technology (14%) and telecommunications (13%).

    Among the top 50 applicants, Huawei (+1,332) saw the largest increases in PCT filings, followed by Tencent Technology Co. of China (+727) and Microsoft Corp. of the US (+652). In contrast, Panasonic Corp. (-1,157) and Sharp Kabushiki Kaisha of Japan (-612) saw the largest declines (Annex 1 PDF, Annex 1: Top PCT applicants).

    The University of California, with 413 published applications, is the top applicant among educational institutions followed by the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (234), the University of Texas System (154) and Harvard University (147). US universities occupy 9 of the top 10 positions among educational institutions.

    The only non-U.S. university in the top ten is Seoul National University of the Republic of Korea – ranked in the tenth position. Annex 3 PDF, Annex 3: Top PCT applicants for educational institutions reports data for the top 50 applicants among educational institutions.

    PCT filings by field of technology

    Computer technology with 17,653 published applications – or 8.4% of the total – accounted for the largest share of PCT applications, followed by digital communication (7.7%) and electronic machinery (7.3%). Annex 4 PDF, Annex 4: PCT international applications by field of technology reports data for 35 different technology fields. Amongst the top 10 fields, computer technology saw the fastest growth (+19.4%), followed by medical technology (+17.1%) and digital communication (+14.5%). The share of computer technology filings in total applications has increased from 3% in 1990 to 8% in 2014. Similarly, the share of digital communications has increased from less than 1% in 1990 to 8% in 2014. Microsoft is the top applicant for computer technology, followed by Intel Corp. and Tencent Technology.

    While pharmaceutical patent filings experienced an upward trend up to 2007, they have since stagnated. Relative to total applications, the share of pharmaceutical patenting via the PCT has continuously declined since 2007. Pharmaceutical patents represent the seventh largest field. Merck Sharp & Dohme Corp. is the largest filer with 171 applications, followed by Novartis AG (141), F. Hoffmann-La Roche AG (135) and the University of California (111).

    Universities and public research organizations show a strong presence in this field, accounting for 26% of pharmaceutical PCT filings. This is in contrast to computer technology and digital communication where these entities accounted for 4.6% and 2.8%, respectively.

    http://www.wipo.int/pressroom/en/articles/2015/article_0004.html

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    • Replies: @Bill Jones
    There has been a deliberate and consistent export of Western technologies to asia since the 1970's: just as it was transferred to the Soviet Union starting in the 1920's.

    James Corbett is very good on this (and many other topics)
    Did you know about Mao's links to Yale?

    https://www.corbettreport.com/china-and-the-new-world-order-video/
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Flower
    I enjoy your stuff Fred, always amusing. However, I don't think your littany of "white-guy 'accomplishments' is really the proper strategy here. One could easily add to your laundry list of amenities such toys as cluster bombs, napalm, nuclear explosions, weaponized anthrax, cruise missiles, air pollution, water pollution, food pollution, spiritual pollution and so on. Sure, we invented the electron microscope, be we also invented crystal meth, crack cocaine, huffing paint thinner, and Justin Bieber.

    But why don't black people want to get into the inventing game? What is it that makes black Americans turn away from the white guy's world? Like most white folks, I don't think that you realize (or appreciate) the depth of hatred that has been engendered by the white race toward itself. The Muslims seem rather sick and tired of the white guy, whodda thunked it. An attitude that I am fairly certain that the people of central and south America are growing every day. (I would ask that you talk to Venezuala, but now is probably not a good time to do that.) Sure, we white folk have given the world Cell Phones (oh, joy), but the African nations that are sitting on the raw materials that make up those Cell Phones are being raped and robbed and set up for the IMF to make a "deal" with whatever puppet the US has decided they want to take the x million dollar "loan" and thus seal that nation into indentured servitude. I would have you talk to the Cherokee about this white man's burden, and how whitey feels it necessary to take EVERY GD thing that hasn't been nailed down, but now is probably not the best time.

    So, I try to imagine what it must be like to be a 12 - 13 year-old black kid with an above average intelligence, innate curiosity about things, and a desire to do something meaningful. And then here is Fred, wondering why that black kid doesn't want to be like him. The answer is simple, Fred: he hates you F'ing guts, and for no other reason than the same one whitey has used to keep the "niggerized" down: skin color. At 13, he has probably had enough of the shite end of the stick to last him a lifetime, but he's still got a few years left to go. By now, he has learned that any dealing with the white man will leave everything for whitey, and nothing for him, and if he complains, then it's all about the black kid not being grateful for whitey's inventions and all that welfare. Yeah, yeah, we whine about all that welfare, but I wonder, really, how many black guys would trade all that welfare for just an even break? Somebody, quick, add up how much money the US white guys have given away as welfare to the black folks, and compare that to the 17 TRILLION+ dollars in welfare that whitey gave to the Wall Street banks to cover the banks' gambling debts. (All together now, white guys, let's all cry about black people using their welfare to buy cigarettes.) Oh, but whitey declares that that money to the banks wasn't welfare, nope, it was a "loan" (wink, wink, nudge, nudge). How about the Fed's zero percent interest rate on their quantitative easing, and their pallets of $100 bills to pay off the US debt? Say, would any of these white guys ripping off the American public (which includes other white people) ever be brought to task over this thievery? And you wonder why that kid hates your guts just because of your skin color.

    Fred, this time, you aren't wrong, but you ain't right either.

    And you wonder why that kid hates your guts just because of your skin color.

    Fred doesn’t wonder why. Fred knows why.

    At the end of this day, there are a lot of Black countries and a lot of Black communities to which one could move. But, alas, most movement is into White run places. The upsides out weigh the down sides by a large margin.

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  • @Corvinus
    “Still, permit me a brief and very incomplete list of things white people have done or invented...”

    And whites invented colonialism and imperialism. Are we going to celebrate these wonderful achievements as well?

    “Miscegenation is a Jewish idea…..for whites only.”

    
The mixing of the races is a human, not a Jewish, concept.

    “white women are the only women who marry down, given how often I see good looking white women with terrible looking, poor, uneducated, immoral, unethical and even outright criminal black and Mexican men.”

    Remove “black and Mexican” and you are accurate in your assessment.

    “Miscegenation (or rather mal-cegenation) is a white only disease which occurs almost exclusively in white women.”

    
Do not people have the liberty to choose whom they marry and procreate it? Why do you hate freedom?

    “None of the other races allow foreigners, especially those who look uglier than them, or those who have less education, or are more violent, to immigrate into their country.”

    I am certain that Japan, Brazil, and South Africa enable people from different countries to emigrate there who are decidedly different in appearance and background.

    “Killing each other in large numbers, mal-cegenation, alienism and liberalism are predominantly white disorders.”

    Wow, just wow.

    “No, I mean the hundreds of thousands of years in Africa where the strong tribes regularly enslaved the weak and the men regularly enslaved the women.”

    The Greeks, the Romans, the Frankish tribe, and Germanic tribes also engaged in this practice. Try again.

    “I am certain that Japan enable people from different countries to emigrate there who are decidedly different in appearance and background”

    LOL, now somebody is just making shit up!!!

    adults are talking here, don’t you have homework to do…..oh wait, you graduated from the 7th grade and school is out till the fall so never mind.

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  • @Sam Shama
    "Physically, whites cannot compete against blacks at all. In sports and tasks requiring athleticism, blacks outclass whites."

    This is not true. Blacks are 'faster' and can jump higher because of greater concentration of twitch muscles, but in many others, such as: strength sports (lifting, short put, javelin throw, world strongman competition, decathlon), soccer, mountain scaling, not to mention cerebral 'sports' like Chess where whites absolutely dominate!

    In Rugby union, which is a sport increasingly dominated by Polynesians, who have the largest muscle mass and explosivity of any race on the planet, the acknowledged greatest player of all is the Scots decsent NZ captain Richie macaw. In a sport where drugs might go down quite well he appears to not be on them and out performs everyone through innate stamina and intelligence. West African players in England have made very little impact in the sport to date.

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    • Replies: @Sam Shama
    True. I caught a show once of the Maoris pumping themselves up before a game, and they looked like a really scary bunch!
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Dipwill
    Wow, you really changed my views, some random internet commentator on Unz claimed the nobel prize is an "intellectually stupid tool" used by the MSM to "justify something." You know, I think there really might be nepotism with the nobel prize (especially in regards to jews), but yeah, it's a pretty good metric for intellectual accomplishment, that just about anybody who's won it in a scientific field has exhibited remarkable scientific accomplishments.

    Why does the claim have problems on it's own? The Japanese (and to a lesser extent, the Koeans) have accomplished far more than the Chinese in recent times, especially in proportions to their numbers, and this was the opposite in the past. That's pretty uncontroversial and easily verifiable, the vast overwhelming majority of major accomplishments in east asia came from China in the past, with Japan and Korea way, way, way behind. In fact, I think Korea had more unique inventions and discoveries than Japan did in pre-modern times, but while Korea is certainly catching up to Japan, they've yet to produce a single nobel prize winner other than one in peace (which I won't deny is overwhelmingly useless) in 2000.

    To be honest, your 1st paragrpah almost moved Panda into tears…Panda thought there was some hope to the general intelligence of average humans… Having in mind there must be billions out there who think just like you on the issue, Panda is now marveled by the global impact of MSM to the the magical brain power of global masses(who have avg IQ of 90 btw), therefore feels a bit tired to repeat it again, again, again, and again…

    for a simpler answer, pls go here

    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/national-wealth-and-iq/

    post #168

    ————

    As for your 2nd parapgragh…

    `but while Korea is certainly catching up to Japan…`

    Hello Martian, the planet Earth here: I am very sorry but I gotta inform you that on this planet where Kim Jong-un is certainly catching up to Sierra Leon rather than Japan or Capan.

    Is that too much a requirement to you to gather some of your IQ to think first and ask yourself a simple question WHO IS KOREA in your claim? …yeah right, that was exactly Panda´s point in the previous reply, was it not? ROFL

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    • Replies: @Dipwill
    I was going to write a more detailed reply, but then I realized I wasn't debating with someone who was criticizing asians a whole, that you're some kind of chinese nationalist (who frequently refers to themselves in the third person, as "Panda", likely due to aspergers- and what else could explain thinking I meant all of Korea and not just the south?) who doesn't like to hear that his people haven't been doing as well in China proper now than they did in the past. I'm largely on "your side" (though I don't think the east asian IQ is as high as 105-107, especially China, as oft-claimed in these discussions) in this thread, but anything that upsets your view of Chinese supremacy isn't going to fly I guess.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @PandaAtWar
    Nobel Prize? ROFL. It is just an intellectually stupid yet popular tool mostly used by MSM to fully "justify" something , or anything, to their worldwide masses (aka with avg IQ =90).

    Why accomplishments overwhelmingly are now on the part of the Japanese, not Chinese (in China mainland)? This claim has some toublesome problems in its own, but nevertheless, if it were entirely true, then Panda would guess that you have to ask first:

    why the R&D guys of Samsung and LG seem to have some accomplishments now, while their twin brothers in North Korea are still scratching the dirt growing potatos, and likely keep doing so for the foreseeable future?

    Wow, you really changed my views, some random internet commentator on Unz claimed the nobel prize is an “intellectually stupid tool” used by the MSM to “justify something.” You know, I think there really might be nepotism with the nobel prize (especially in regards to jews), but yeah, it’s a pretty good metric for intellectual accomplishment, that just about anybody who’s won it in a scientific field has exhibited remarkable scientific accomplishments.

    Why does the claim have problems on it’s own? The Japanese (and to a lesser extent, the Koeans) have accomplished far more than the Chinese in recent times, especially in proportions to their numbers, and this was the opposite in the past. That’s pretty uncontroversial and easily verifiable, the vast overwhelming majority of major accomplishments in east asia came from China in the past, with Japan and Korea way, way, way behind. In fact, I think Korea had more unique inventions and discoveries than Japan did in pre-modern times, but while Korea is certainly catching up to Japan, they’ve yet to produce a single nobel prize winner other than one in peace (which I won’t deny is overwhelmingly useless) in 2000.

    Read More
    • Replies: @PandaAtWar
    To be honest, your 1st paragrpah almost moved Panda into tears...Panda thought there was some hope to the general intelligence of average humans... Having in mind there must be billions out there who think just like you on the issue, Panda is now marveled by the global impact of MSM to the the magical brain power of global masses(who have avg IQ of 90 btw), therefore feels a bit tired to repeat it again, again, again, and again...

    for a simpler answer, pls go here

    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/national-wealth-and-iq/

    post #168

    ------------

    As for your 2nd parapgragh...


    `but while Korea is certainly catching up to Japan...`
     
    Hello Martian, the planet Earth here: I am very sorry but I gotta inform you that on this planet where Kim Jong-un is certainly catching up to Sierra Leon rather than Japan or Capan.

    Is that too much a requirement to you to gather some of your IQ to think first and ask yourself a simple question WHO IS KOREA in your claim? ...yeah right, that was exactly Panda´s point in the previous reply, was it not? ROFL

    , @PandaAtWar

    Why does the claim have problems on it’s own? The Japanese (and to a lesser extent, the Koeans) have accomplished far more than the Chinese in recent times, especially in proportions to their numbers, and this was the opposite in the past.
     
    Panda is afraid that probably you´re slightly out of date on this.

    World scientific communities usually don´t use vague terms such as `who seems accomplished more than whom` you do , can you believe that?

    Instead, the world at large has an organisation called WIPO, which measures global innovation , patents, and developent trend on a yearly country-by-country industry-by-industry basis.

    Here is a Reuter report on this from the last month ( you can google up the details of WIPO 2014 yearbook to see why Panda said such):


    Thomson Reuters has published The Future Is Open: 2015 State of Innovation. The report treats patents as a “proxy for innovation” in its analysis of the future of innovation and innovation activity across various sectors of industry.

    Twelve sectors are examined in the report in relation to research and patent activity: Aerospace & Defense; Automotive; Biotechnology; Cosmetics & Wellbeing; Food, Beverage & Tobacco; Home Appliances; Information Technology; Medical Devices; Oil & Gas; Pharmaceuticals; Semiconductors; and Telecommunications.


    Innovation and the Role of Patents

    The report considers the role of patents as a measurement, indicator or “proxy” for innovation. An analysis of patent statistics can offer insight into the state of innovation across sectors of industry, it says.

    While patent information can be demonstrative of a company’s value, the report says, it is not just the quantity of patents that highlights innovation but rather the type of inventions that are being patented in addition to the level of research that is going into the invention.
    The report states that scientific literature is a “precursor to patenting by approximately three-to-five years,” as scientific research leads discovery.
    In order to determine the state of research and innovation, scientific research is assessed alongside patent activity.

    The report analyses the state of innovation in each of the sectors:

    Aerospace & Defense
    The most influential aerospace research hails from the US, particularly from the University of Michigan, which published 446 papers from 2004 to 2014 with a relative citation impact of 1.78.
    The report states that commercial and defence organisations are looking to innovators to help them succeed in changing markets that are full of competitive challenges. These organisations are seeking more value, capability and reliability in a quicker and more affordable manner.

    Automotive
    Again, the University of Michigan came out on top for scientific research in the automotive industry, with the publication of 324 papers from 2004 to 2014.
    The report observes that while improvements in safety and environmental performance of vehicles has continued, substantial investment is needed in hydrogen propulsion technology. Additionally, establishing more recharging stations will allow for the growth of battery electric vehicles.

    Biotechnology
    The most influential research institution in biotechnology is the Broad Institute in the US. Some 392 papers were published from 2004 to 2014 with a relative citation impact of 7.54.
    The report states that both academic and corporate innovators are developing possibilities for an “individual-based approach” to medicine and this will lead to “targeted drugs in treatment strategies that address the unique make-up of a human being.”

    Cosmetics & Wellbeing
    The University of Sao Paulo led the research for the cosmetics and wellbeing industry with the publication of 153 papers.
    The report states that the industry is expected to reach $630 billion in revenue by 2017.
    Peta Leggatt, pharmaceutical and technical expert at Thomson Reuters, said in the report that, “Like many other sectors, the cosmetics and well-being industry is evolving in pace with new technological and chemical advancements.”

    Food, Beverage, Tobacco
    The University of British Columbia was the leader of the scientific research institutions with the publication of 400 papers related to this industry from 2004 to 2014 with a relative citation impact of 1.99.
    China led the innovation in the industry, with 70 percent of the top 10 innovators coming from China.
    The report notes that the food industry is moving away from processed foods due to demands for healthier foods.

    Home Appliances
    The most prolific scientific research institution for home appliances is the University of Zaragoza in Spain with the publication of 102 papers.
    The report states that the public is throwing away appliances that still work. Additionally, it notes the challenges innovators face in embracing “function, fashion and overall fitness for purpose,” in addition to the extension of the “purposeful life of domestic appliances.”

    Information Technology
    Technical University Czestochowa in Poland was the leader of the most influential scientific-research institutions in computer science, with the publication of 348 papers with a relative citation impact of 6.26, with the other top institutions hailing from the US, UK, France and Israel.
    The report notes that due to the recent news of the acquisition of Nest Labs (a smoke detector and thermostat developer) by Google, the world is now on “the verge of a race for control of the smart home.”

    Medical Devices
    The US is the world leader for medical device-related research. The top 10 institutions are from the US. Leading these is the US Food and Drug Administration which published 201 papers, and Harvard University which published 166 papers from 2004 to 2014.
    Innovation in the medical device industry sees the development of microneedle patches and electroceuticals.
    This bioelectric innovation will allow professionals in healthcare to “target a specific nerve and modify electrical impulses to treat the problem,” it says..

    Oil & Gas
    Imperial College London and the US Department of Energy led the research institutions, publishing 128 and 111 papers, respectively.
    China is shown as the most innovative region in the Oil & Gas sector with companies Sinopec and PetroChina taking the financial lead for 2014’s top five petroleum innovators globally.
    The report notes “the short-term scramble for the planet’s remaining fossil-fuel resources raises political pressures that can only get more difficult in the long term.” Therefore, innovation in the oil and gas industry will focus on speeding up the capture of these resources.

    Pharmaceuticals
    Goethe University Frankfurt Hospital in Germany took the lead for research institutions, publishing 392 papers with a relative citation impact of 4.87.
    But China took the lead as the most innovative globally, with the Chinese Academy of Sciences taking the top spot for the 2014 financials of the top five pharmaceutical innovators globally, followed by Roche in Switzerland.
    The future of innovation in this sector is focused on mass market “blockbuster” drugs. This is despite the “dawn of genomics-driven, target based drug discovery,” it says. “The future of medicines is individual, genomics-driven, target-based drug discovery, but the near future is all about yet more mass market, blockbuster drugs that reap the billions the pharma industry has invested in the Innovation lifecycle.”
    The report notes that controversy surrounds blockbuster drugs, for example, in relation to hepatitis C drugs. Sovaldi costs $84,000 for a course of treatment and Harvoni costs $95,000 for a course of treatment. Nevertheless, by 2019, these drugs are expected to have multi-billion dollar sales.
    Jon Brett Harris, managing director of Thomson Reuters Life Sciences, said in the report, “biosimilars must deliver the power of the reference drugs at a price developing countries can afford and gain the confidence of the marketplace.”

    Semiconductors
    The leading research institution is the Chinese Academy of Sciences in China, publishing 6,425 papers between 2004 and 2014.
    This sector is in a “transitional” phase, the report said. Manufacturers are looking for partners via open innovation.


    Telecommunication

    The institution leading research is Rice University in the US, publishing 323 papers between 2004 and 2014 with a relative citation impact of 4.31.
    Samsung (South Korea) and Huawei (China) led the 2014 financials for the top five mobile telephony innovators globally.
    The report notes that telecoms and mobile telephone are increasingly expanding and that the “time is ripe for consolidation.”

    http://www.ip-watch.org/2015/06/04/report-patent-activity-at-a-high-but-decline-in-scientific-research/


     

    Alternatively, check WIPO 2014 summary:

    Geneva, March 19, 2015

    Three telecoms giants from China and the United States led international patent filing activity via WIPO in 2014, a fifth consecutive record-breaking year amid overall growth in the Organization’s global intellectual property services.

    Together, China and the U.S. accounted for 87% of the total growth in filings under WIPO’s Patent Cooperation Treaty (PCT), which saw some 215,000 applications in 2014, a 4.5% increase over the previous year. In a significant development, the U.S. became the biggest filer of international trademark applications under WIPO’s Madrid System.

    “The rapid growth in international patent applications underscores the increasing importance of intellectual property as it moves from the periphery to the center of the global economic system,” said WIPO Director General Francis Gurry on the release of WIPO’s annual review of its IP-filing and dispute resolution activities. “We are pleased that our filing services provide effective and efficient support for managing this trend.”

    Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd. of China, with 3,442 published PCT applications, overtook Panasonic Corp. of Japan as the largest applicant in 2014. U.S.-based Qualcomm Inc. was the second largest applicant in 2014, with 2,409 published applications, while China’s ZTE Corp. took third place with 2,179 PCT applications. (Annex 1 PDF, Annex 1: Top PCT applicants).

    The U.S. was the primary country of origin for PCT filers in 2014, with 61,492 applications and 7.1% growth. Japan followed with 42,459 applications, representing a 3% decline on 2013. Applicants from China filed 25,539 applications – an 18.7% annual increase.

    Europe showed signs of improvement as it strives to address a challenging economic environment. For the first time since 2007, the top three E.U. countries recorded growth in PCT filings, with strong growth coming from France and the United Kingdom. (Annex 2 PDF, Annex 2: PCT international applications by origin).
    PCT System

    PCT filing trends

    Among the top 10 PCT filing countries, China (+18.7%) is the only country that saw double-digit growth in 2014. The U.K. recorded the second fastest growth rate (+9%), followed by the US (+7.1%). In addition to Japan, Switzerland (-5.9%) and Sweden (-0.5%) are the two other countries among the top ten with fewer PCT applications in 2014 than in 2013.

    After China, India (1,394) is the largest user of the PCT system among BRICS countries, followed by the Russian Federation (890), Brazil (581) and South Africa (297). However, their growth rates differ, with Brazil (-11.6%), the Russian Federations (-25.3%) and South Africa (-15.4%) showing declines, while filings originating from India increased by 5.6%. Turkey (802), Malaysia (314) and Mexico (284) are other middle-income countries seeing considerable filing activity under the PCT.

    Top PCT applicants

    The top three applicants have similar patent filing profiles, with digital communication accounting for the bulk of their total filings. Digital communication accounted for two-thirds of all PCT applications filed by Huawei, followed by computer technology and telecommunications, with each field accounting for 11% of the total. Qualcomm had a similar PCT filing profile to that of Huawei, with digital communication accounting for two-fifths of their total applications, followed by computer technology (18%), audio-visual technology (11%) and telecommunications (10%). As for ZTE, digital communication accounted for slightly over three-fifths of all filings, followed by computer technology (14%) and telecommunications (13%).

    Among the top 50 applicants, Huawei (+1,332) saw the largest increases in PCT filings, followed by Tencent Technology Co. of China (+727) and Microsoft Corp. of the US (+652). In contrast, Panasonic Corp. (-1,157) and Sharp Kabushiki Kaisha of Japan (-612) saw the largest declines (Annex 1 PDF, Annex 1: Top PCT applicants).

    The University of California, with 413 published applications, is the top applicant among educational institutions followed by the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (234), the University of Texas System (154) and Harvard University (147). US universities occupy 9 of the top 10 positions among educational institutions.

    The only non-U.S. university in the top ten is Seoul National University of the Republic of Korea – ranked in the tenth position. Annex 3 PDF, Annex 3: Top PCT applicants for educational institutions reports data for the top 50 applicants among educational institutions.

    PCT filings by field of technology

    Computer technology with 17,653 published applications – or 8.4% of the total – accounted for the largest share of PCT applications, followed by digital communication (7.7%) and electronic machinery (7.3%). Annex 4 PDF, Annex 4: PCT international applications by field of technology reports data for 35 different technology fields. Amongst the top 10 fields, computer technology saw the fastest growth (+19.4%), followed by medical technology (+17.1%) and digital communication (+14.5%). The share of computer technology filings in total applications has increased from 3% in 1990 to 8% in 2014. Similarly, the share of digital communications has increased from less than 1% in 1990 to 8% in 2014. Microsoft is the top applicant for computer technology, followed by Intel Corp. and Tencent Technology.

    While pharmaceutical patent filings experienced an upward trend up to 2007, they have since stagnated. Relative to total applications, the share of pharmaceutical patenting via the PCT has continuously declined since 2007. Pharmaceutical patents represent the seventh largest field. Merck Sharp & Dohme Corp. is the largest filer with 171 applications, followed by Novartis AG (141), F. Hoffmann-La Roche AG (135) and the University of California (111).

    Universities and public research organizations show a strong presence in this field, accounting for 26% of pharmaceutical PCT filings. This is in contrast to computer technology and digital communication where these entities accounted for 4.6% and 2.8%, respectively.

    http://www.wipo.int/pressroom/en/articles/2015/article_0004.html


     

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  • @Dipwill
    I don't know what you're implying with the first part of your post. Needham worked extensively in tandem with the Chinese in developing his work. I've never heard of Needham's series being a discovery of lost chinese accomplishments. Nobody here is arguing the Aztecs and Egyptians are equal to the west, and to that end, the Aztec civilization was basically destroyed by spanish disease and such, and the ancient egyptian civilization has been buried and forgotten over countless invasions spanning centuries and centuries.

    I think it's a mix with the Chinese. Here's a pretty good example- the vast overwhelming majority of accomplishments on the part of east asians in the past came about from the Chinese. Now, it's overwhelmingly been on the part of the Japanese, and a disproportionate number of chinese accomplishments come from ones in western nations, and the Japanese continue to amass nobel prizes.

    Nobel Prize? ROFL. It is just an intellectually stupid yet popular tool mostly used by MSM to fully “justify” something , or anything, to their worldwide masses (aka with avg IQ =90).

    Why accomplishments overwhelmingly are now on the part of the Japanese, not Chinese (in China mainland)? This claim has some toublesome problems in its own, but nevertheless, if it were entirely true, then Panda would guess that you have to ask first:

    why the R&D guys of Samsung and LG seem to have some accomplishments now, while their twin brothers in North Korea are still scratching the dirt growing potatos, and likely keep doing so for the foreseeable future?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dipwill
    Wow, you really changed my views, some random internet commentator on Unz claimed the nobel prize is an "intellectually stupid tool" used by the MSM to "justify something." You know, I think there really might be nepotism with the nobel prize (especially in regards to jews), but yeah, it's a pretty good metric for intellectual accomplishment, that just about anybody who's won it in a scientific field has exhibited remarkable scientific accomplishments.

    Why does the claim have problems on it's own? The Japanese (and to a lesser extent, the Koeans) have accomplished far more than the Chinese in recent times, especially in proportions to their numbers, and this was the opposite in the past. That's pretty uncontroversial and easily verifiable, the vast overwhelming majority of major accomplishments in east asia came from China in the past, with Japan and Korea way, way, way behind. In fact, I think Korea had more unique inventions and discoveries than Japan did in pre-modern times, but while Korea is certainly catching up to Japan, they've yet to produce a single nobel prize winner other than one in peace (which I won't deny is overwhelmingly useless) in 2000.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Reg Cæsar

    China and India are both very old civilizations and are ascendant right now
     
    China and India are the only countries to develop significant nuclear weaponry without a native Jewish population to draw on. Hitler was no closer than Saddam (though nobody calls FDR a liar. Funny how that works.)

    Please, don’t make a wild (false) claim followed by trying to “answer” it. Panda doesn’t know which is funnier. ROFL

    1. India didn’t develop significant nuclear weaponry on its own. Moreover, it still doesn’t have anything remotely close to “significant” but just some very primitive level nukes, compared to thermonuclear sophistication of what UNSC 5 (US, Russia, China, Britain and France) had 3 decades ago.

    More importantly, India’s initial nuke know-how was secretly given by Canada( which in turn got it from America?), with a tacit permission of the US to balance the South Asian regional geopolitics at a time:

    Sixteen of India’s 21 currently operating nuclear power plants are indigenously designed PHWRs that can trace their ancestry to two Canadian-designed Candu plants, Rajasthan 1 and 2, which started up in 1973 and 1980.

    http://www.world-nuclear-news.org/NP-Canada-India-contract-strengthens-nuclear-ties-1604157.html

    2. North Korea, however, did get nukes, sort of on their own. And yes, primitive ones, but more or less in the league of India/Pakistan pair.

    3. Japan, most likely (Panda’s suspicion) is already a secret nuke power – many stories still to be known behind Fukushima “Accident”… Surely it has capability of doing it on their own.

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  • @Hacienda
    All great accomplishments when looked at piece by piece. If it all adds up to a pile of immeasurable sh+t...well who knows?

    BTW, as a Korean, I'd like Fred to keep us out of this fascinating but ultimately ridiculous conversation between Fred and black people.

    keep us out of this… conversation

    The conversation started long ago. You might not be interested in tribal/ethnic matters, but they are interested in you.

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  • @Truth

    The white man gives with 1 hand, and takes 3 with the other hands, that’s the problem

     

    When the White Mon first came to our region, we had a herd of cattle, and he had a stack of bibles.

    Twenty years later, he had a herd of cattle, and we had a stack of bibles.

    -Bishop Desmond Tutu

    ROFL

    Further Twenty years on after we kicked the White Mon out, we have now neither a herd of cattle, nor a stack of bibles.

    - by errr… Mandela?

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  • @Reg Cæsar

    China and India are both very old civilizations and are ascendant right now
     
    China and India are the only countries to develop significant nuclear weaponry without a native Jewish population to draw on. Hitler was no closer than Saddam (though nobody calls FDR a liar. Funny how that works.)

    True.

    Its an interesting thing about IQ, I have always wondered. How did the Indians do this with an average IQ of something like 85? Chinese are higher with about 95. Yet if you look at the Jewish population in Israel they have an IQ of about 92 (lower than US average of 100). Yet Israelis are amazing in terms of technological innovation (startup techs). Is it possible that IQ expands with stress? Maybe because the Africans were in such a fertile land their IQs did not need to go up? (Asking those of you who have studied this subject)

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  • @Realist
    Miscegenation is a Jewish idea.....for whites only.

    Doesn’t Israel practice miscegenation by forbidding intermarriage with Arabs? And racism by deporting black Jews?

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  • @Biff
    How is it people see their world as an all encompassing, beginning to end, and with no beginning, and no end, reality. Yes, Fred is probably correct in some ways(when comes to waging war, I can’t think of a dumber group than white people) - for now - but his findings are just a blip in the chain of time.
    Advantages come and go. 90% of everything that lived on this planet is gone, and taken over by something that found a better way.
    homo erectus survived, at this point, nine times longer than our own species, and at the going rate of Human greed and expansion homo sapiens sapiens will be in the dust bin of history before the next millennium, making ‘cave men’ more successful - if lasting longer is a measure of success.

    Live it up Fred! Thump your chest for the good times are here and now, but remember - nothing lasts forever. Nothing............

    Right Biff–nothing last forever. By the way, can you please share with us the great achievements of the Black civilization?

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  • @Seraphim
    The scientific magazine NATURE, vol. 444, p. 793 (14 december 2006) writes in his News about the recent analysis on pyramid stones:

    “Some of the massive blocks making up the great pyramids of Giza in Egypt (pictured) are not limestone, but a synthetic mix like concrete, argue materials scientists. The paper by Michel Barsoum of Drexel University in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, and his colleagues is the latest entry in a decades-long argument. Most Egyptologists reject the idea, put forth in the mid-1980s by French chemist Joseph Davidovits, that the pyramids contain concrete. Barsoum’s team took a fresh look at 15 samples using scanning- and transmission-electron microscopes. The samples contain ratios of elements, such as calcium and magnesium, that do not exist in nearby limestone. The imaging also revealed regions of amorphous structure. Both observations suggest that other substances were added to make a concrete mix, say the authors."

    It is clear that the Egyptians were more advanced than people are prepared to admit.

    One of the things I learned in science as a child that has stuck to me to this day (and I don’t know if it is still true) is that the Egyptian Pyramids could not be built to the specification they were, using any technology known to man in the 1980s.

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    • Replies: @Seraphim
    The theory of the geopolymeric Pyramids encountered an unsurprising fierce opposition from the traditional archeologists and egyptologysts. One of the reason being that it shattered the entrenched image of the enormous masses of slaves forced to build useless constructions for the oppressive tyrants called Pharaohs. Image supposed to be the illustration of the Biblical story of the enslavement, deliverance and exodus of the Israelites, the founding myth of Israel.

    Demonstration that the technology applied for the construction of the Pyramids (and other buildings) required but a small number of people (confirmed by the excavations in the living quarters of the builders) risks to cast a long shadow of doubt on the myth. There are serious doubts, extremely plausible that the Israelites never touched the soil of Egypt. (@"Egypt knew no Pharaohs nor Israelites", Kindle Edition, by Ashraf Ezzat)

    The technology was not too complicated. A good summary at:
    @http://www.geopolymer.org/archaeology/pyramids/are-pyramids-made-out-of-concrete-1
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  • @Dipwill
    I think significant black admixture only occurs in southern arabians, the idea that the rest of the middle east has significant african ancestry is baseless. Arabs didn't mix with africans for the most part, there are few black communities in the middle east today and those that do are easily distinguishable.

    I think significant black admixture only occurs in southern arabians, the idea that the rest of the middle east has significant african ancestry is baseless. Arabs didn’t mix with africans for the most part, there are few black communities in the middle east today and those that do are easily distinguishable.

    As most of you now know, I live in the Middle East, and the population of Kuwait is roughly 15% Egyptian immigrants, They fix cars, drive taxis, work in coffee shops and restaurants, etc. they were the original labor class of Kuwait, (the country is only 54 years old) but have since been usurped by those from the Indian diaspora, as they are happier to be servants, speak better English (English is the daily language of the Gulf States, not Arabic), and are generally a bit more passive.

    In any event, in nearly a year here, I can honestly say that I have NEVER met an Egyptian ANYWHERE, in ANY setting, who did not appear to be part black, and I have Egyptians who are as black as Dikembe Mutumbo.

    I have met very white, “unspoiled” Arabs from elsewhere, one from Yemen, one from Syria, and one or two Palestinians, but they are an incredibly rare exception not the rule. Even amongst upper-class Gulf State Muslims, there is generally some admixture, as I have seen aristocratic Kuwaitis who look like slightly lighter versions of my family.

    BTW your following post was excellent. The thing you have to know about Stan; well, the young man is “incorrigible.”

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  • @Bliss
    Speaking of NASA it must really burn Fred up inside to see that it's current leader is an african-american ex-Commander of the Space Shuttle.

    You have to wonder if amoral Fred Reed posted this article yet again right after a fellow southerner murdered elderly black church ladies to somehow justify the heinous sin to his confederate flag waving amen corner. The mass murderer Roof has the same pathological hatred of blacks as Fred Reed, the same insane conviction that blacks are "taking over", the same wicked desire to instigate a race war. Roof has made Reed proud?

    If Fred knew more about history he wouldn't be anointing himself a god:

    http://science.howstuffworks.com/innovation/inventions/5-amazing-ancient-egyptian-inventions.htm


    There may be no greater tribute to a society's ingenuity and vision than Egypt's Great Pyramid of Giza. Originally standing 481 feet (147 meters) tall, the Great Pyramid towers over monuments like the Statue of Liberty and Big Ben [source: PBS]. Of course, the pyramids are only part of ancient Egypt's legacy.
    Over the thousands of years ancient Egyptians thrived, they ushered in perhaps the most advanced civilization the world had ever known, and many of the fixtures of their society are still commonplace.

    The scientific magazine NATURE, vol. 444, p. 793 (14 december 2006) writes in his News about the recent analysis on pyramid stones:

    “Some of the massive blocks making up the great pyramids of Giza in Egypt (pictured) are not limestone, but a synthetic mix like concrete, argue materials scientists. The paper by Michel Barsoum of Drexel University in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, and his colleagues is the latest entry in a decades-long argument. Most Egyptologists reject the idea, put forth in the mid-1980s by French chemist Joseph Davidovits, that the pyramids contain concrete. Barsoum’s team took a fresh look at 15 samples using scanning- and transmission-electron microscopes. The samples contain ratios of elements, such as calcium and magnesium, that do not exist in nearby limestone. The imaging also revealed regions of amorphous structure. Both observations suggest that other substances were added to make a concrete mix, say the authors.”

    It is clear that the Egyptians were more advanced than people are prepared to admit.

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    • Replies: @Truth
    One of the things I learned in science as a child that has stuck to me to this day (and I don't know if it is still true) is that the Egyptian Pyramids could not be built to the specification they were, using any technology known to man in the 1980s.
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  • @Bbc
    The white man gives with 1 hand, and takes 3 with the other hands, that's the problem

    The white man gives with 1 hand, and takes 3 with the other hands, that’s the problem

    When the White Mon first came to our region, we had a herd of cattle, and he had a stack of bibles.

    Twenty years later, he had a herd of cattle, and we had a stack of bibles.

    -Bishop Desmond Tutu

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    • Replies: @PandaAtWar
    ROFL

    Further Twenty years on after we kicked the White Mon out, we have now neither a herd of cattle, nor a stack of bibles.

    - by errr... Mandela?
    , @Wyrd
    All right, but apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh-water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?
    , @PR
    It wasn't Tutu's people land,
    and it wasn't their cattle.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hofmeyr_Skull

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/03/140328121025.htm
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  • @Stan D Mute

    We’ve been through that before on this blog. A black president appoints another black to a position, and this is your idea of proof of black intelligence,
     
    There are intelligent negroes, I don't know anyone who denies that. Statistically, they are far fewer per capita than whites, East Asians, or Jews and the shape of their bell curve shows that negroes are more clustered near their average with fewer at the extremes both high and low. So it is going to be extraordinarily rare for a negro to present with Mensa level intellect let alone the sort you'll find winning Fields medals.

    With an average IQ of 65 (without white DNA intermixed), the negro would be considered "mentally retarded" if he were white or East Asian. Political correctness has required us to redefine retardation downward and has even caused IQ testing of negroes to be forbidden in California schools. Negroes never developed a written language or the wheel. They are a Stone Age tribe as you can see in those places they've had little to no contact with the outside world (ie central Congo). Bantu tribes still to this day practice cannibalism.

    These facts apparently displease some negroes who read and post comments here. Apparently they subscribe to "guilt by association" theory and think the fact that member of their race are eating other members of their race (or raping infants to try and cure themselves of HIV/AIDS) reflects on them personally. It is rather telling that anyone who dares expose these facts risks brutal violent attack from negroes, but only these commenters here themselves can tell us if the existence of cannibal Bantu says anything about them although they do seem exceptionally defensive about it.

    Most striking however, is that the commenters (and Afro-centrists generally) respond to facts about sub-Saharan Africa, the Bantu, San, and Khoi by claiming a civilization on the other side of the Sahara. Oddly, they can't seem to find any others on such a vast and fertile continent. They fail to realize that they prove the point with their rebuttal. Similarly, regarding negro IQ, they respond with, "a black man invented the Super Soaker!" It would be hard for a comedy writer to come up with anything so laughable. Bragging that your race's contribution to human achievement was one particular brand of squirt gun? And yet this is what they do with their chests puffed out and voices rising in pitch, "we made the Super Soaker - we made the Super Soaker!"

    Likewise, with the media's help, every single incidence of white on black violence is made a national catastrophe. Negroes murdering whites is so commonplace that its mundane. Not even the endless stream of negroes raping and murdering elderly white women, even 100yrs old, will make the national news. Torturing a white child to death with a blowtorch is ignored. Spree killers like Mohammed and Malvo, Thornton, and many others are quickly dumped down the memory hole. Instead, we are subjected to month after month of whining and crying that an attempted cop-killer failed and was shot instead by the cops. And then at long last, when actual innocent negroes are murdered by a white man (if he were a negro he would be called a "teen" or "youth"), it's such a calamity that we must shred our history books, tear down historical monuments, shred our flags, and destroy every last vestige of southern white culture. Innocent people should never be murdered, but the insane disproportionate response is instructive by itself. And has anyone, anyone at all, found anything untrue in the white murderer's "manifesto"?

    We have a severe problem in America with 40,000,000 negroes. Half of them are male and half of those, 10,000,000 are responsible for 52% of the homicides in the country. That same 10,000,000 is also responsible for the majority of the armed robbery, rape, etc. And while the media does everything in its power to conceal that Truth, five seconds on the internet reveals all. If we don't figure out how to pacify this primitive and violent group, we could see some extreme ugliness that no sane person wants to ever see. What's the answer here? Pay them to go away?

    This is probably the craziest post in the entire thread. Since I have some time on my hands, I’ll respond to some of it.

    There’s a lot you could say about that supposed african IQ score (though is it 70? Or 75? Or 60? I’ve seen it across the board), but at the end of the day, those figures, atleast as a genotypic measurement, are garbage, and overwhelmingly originate from Lynn and Rushton, who are largely charlatans. You’d do yourself well to go to Human Varieties and see Jason Malloy’s analysis of Lynn’s work, and his gradual realization how much of a fraud he is in so many regards. But I won’t stop you invoking “political correctness!!!” Nevermind the whole “admixture raising their IQ’s” bit-

    I’ve heard it claimed that it’s illegal to give blacks an IQ test in California (or that the standards for mental retardation were lowered from 85 to 70), but aside from a story I last read years ago I see passed around, I’ve never seen any substantiation for it. What evidence do you have that’s the case?

    And then we get to claims I’ve seen a million times about african history- “never invented the wheel.” It’s true that the wheel was never invented in SS africa, but when you really get down to it, for an early civilization, the wheel is greatly overrated unless you have pack animals, and even then, it’s not exactly some huge oversight. The wheelbarrow has only been invented twice in human history and overlooked by countless people who did make use of the wheel. And unless you want to count Ge’ez, it’s true written language never arose in SS africa, but then again, written language has only arisen in a handful of places throughout the world.

    Only a handful of groups in SS africa before colonialism never went beyond the stone age. Virtually every single group made use of iron smelting, and there is sizable evidence metal smelting was independently developed in SS africa. Places where they’ve had little to no contact with the outside world will invariably have iron technology or some form of agriculture, whether it be farming or cattle herding. The widespread polygamy in africa wouldn’t be possible without it. And it’s true cannibalism still goes on in some parts of SS africa, but most of the continent didn’t practice cannibalism, and outside of the congo where it was widespread, it existed in pockets (which is true of many other parts of the world.)

    Unless you were to go around it in public claiming these things at the top of your lungs, I don’t think you’ll be risking any violent attack on the internet.

    I can point to many civilizations south of the sahara, mainly the many muslim states that existed during the middle ages such as Ghana, Mali, Songhai, Hausaland, Kanem-Bornu etc. It’s true that they, being muslims, were heavily influenced by arabs and north africans (and that there is mythologizing about them, such as Timbuktu being home to a world renowned university), but extensive urbanization in west africa existed well before Islam, and developed city-states, particularly in southern Nigeria (such as the Yoruba, Benin etc.) could easily be found in coastal west africa that had little to no influence. And you won’t get far in claiming these were the products of berbers and arabs, a claim I’ve seen made countless times over the years with absolutely no evidence. The africans of the sahel are among the darkest and have little admixture, and the mixed populations in that region- the fulani and tuareg- have for the bulk of their history remained nomads, the fulani only making any attempts at state building until only the past few centuries, and the tuareg today number just over 1 million, with many of them clearly negroid.

    I’ve never seen anybody claim the super soaker as a great achievement on the part of africans- that was just some joke on the part of SBPDL who in doing so mocked and denigrated a man who’s career included far more than a toy. I think it’s just you that’s seeing anybody bragging about them inventing the supersoaker.

    The rest of your post I admit I don’t find as inaccurate, but goes beyond what I’m willing to address. And I’ll also just say that you aren’t sane.

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  • the greatest invention by black men, CRIME. Ok, they may not have invented crime but they sure have perfected it.

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  • @Jefferson
    "We invented the airplane, the computer, the internet, and tennis shoes."

    Black people invented peanut butter, NOW CAN YOU DIG THAT SUCKAAAAAAA.

    "Now, Cornel, it isn’t that we whites want to be supreme. It is just that we haven’t been able to help it. It isn’t our fault that we produced Newton, Archimedes, Einstein, and all those mutants."

    Black people invented Kanye West who is the greatest Human Being of all time, OF ALL TIME.

    blacks did not invent peanut butter. the Aztecs had something similar to what we know as peanut butter. they just didn’t know how to claim it was theirs.

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  • @dcite
    Yeah, and Ethiopians didn't consider themselves black in Africa, and even over here, are not too thrilled about the connection.
    People in the middle east actually had fewer sub-Saharan African genes than they do today, 1000 years after the Arabs began a slaver trade. I don't know what "race" they would have been considered, but in a generally Caucasoid area, more or less, as most are today for that matter. If you want to know degrees of relationship, you can always look at a "genetic distance" chart.
    "Syrians" were close enough that they were entered as "white" in Ellis Island log books. So I don't. Some people are very picky, but some think in broader terms.

    I think significant black admixture only occurs in southern arabians, the idea that the rest of the middle east has significant african ancestry is baseless. Arabs didn’t mix with africans for the most part, there are few black communities in the middle east today and those that do are easily distinguishable.

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    • Replies: @Truth

    I think significant black admixture only occurs in southern arabians, the idea that the rest of the middle east has significant african ancestry is baseless. Arabs didn’t mix with africans for the most part, there are few black communities in the middle east today and those that do are easily distinguishable.
     
    As most of you now know, I live in the Middle East, and the population of Kuwait is roughly 15% Egyptian immigrants, They fix cars, drive taxis, work in coffee shops and restaurants, etc. they were the original labor class of Kuwait, (the country is only 54 years old) but have since been usurped by those from the Indian diaspora, as they are happier to be servants, speak better English (English is the daily language of the Gulf States, not Arabic), and are generally a bit more passive.

    In any event, in nearly a year here, I can honestly say that I have NEVER met an Egyptian ANYWHERE, in ANY setting, who did not appear to be part black, and I have Egyptians who are as black as Dikembe Mutumbo.

    I have met very white, "unspoiled" Arabs from elsewhere, one from Yemen, one from Syria, and one or two Palestinians, but they are an incredibly rare exception not the rule. Even amongst upper-class Gulf State Muslims, there is generally some admixture, as I have seen aristocratic Kuwaitis who look like slightly lighter versions of my family.

    BTW your following post was excellent. The thing you have to know about Stan; well, the young man is "incorrigible."
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  • @Reg Cæsar

    They could even perform c-sections in pre-colonial Uganda
     
    C-sections themselves are unremarkable.

    C-sections where the mother survives-- now that's something to brag about.

    Yes, they were performed with the mother surviving, it was attested to by various european explorers. You can google “uganda c-section” for more.

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  • @martin
    If the Chinese were so good and brilliant then why did it take a white man to unearth all this info about their history?

    That's what gets me about these non white past cultures that we are supposed to believe are equal to the West, like the Aztecs and the Egyptians. It's always white European historians that do all the digging and exploring and then who write the books.

    Regarding the Chinese. There are two schools of thought. The genetic explanation is that the Chinese are somehow lacking in some subtle aspect of cognition and cannot function as well as whites at least at the top end of the scale. The culture explanation is that they can and its only a matter of time before they overtake whites in terms of accomplishment. Or something like that.

    I favour the genetic explanation. Here's why. Here is a list of eminent British mathematicians living today: Roger Penrose (Tilings), John Conway (Game of Life), Andrew Wiles (Fermat' s Theorem), Simon Donaldson (something or other to do with Topology), Ben Green (Primes in Arithmetic Progression), Martin Baker (something to do with Transcendental Numbers). (This is an extempore list and it might need updating.) OTOH I can only really think of one equally eminent Mathematician who is Chinese, namely Terence Tau. But there are 26 times as many Chinese and they dominate the maths olympiad. What's going on?

    I don’t know what you’re implying with the first part of your post. Needham worked extensively in tandem with the Chinese in developing his work. I’ve never heard of Needham’s series being a discovery of lost chinese accomplishments. Nobody here is arguing the Aztecs and Egyptians are equal to the west, and to that end, the Aztec civilization was basically destroyed by spanish disease and such, and the ancient egyptian civilization has been buried and forgotten over countless invasions spanning centuries and centuries.

    I think it’s a mix with the Chinese. Here’s a pretty good example- the vast overwhelming majority of accomplishments on the part of east asians in the past came about from the Chinese. Now, it’s overwhelmingly been on the part of the Japanese, and a disproportionate number of chinese accomplishments come from ones in western nations, and the Japanese continue to amass nobel prizes.

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    • Replies: @PandaAtWar
    Nobel Prize? ROFL. It is just an intellectually stupid yet popular tool mostly used by MSM to fully "justify" something , or anything, to their worldwide masses (aka with avg IQ =90).

    Why accomplishments overwhelmingly are now on the part of the Japanese, not Chinese (in China mainland)? This claim has some toublesome problems in its own, but nevertheless, if it were entirely true, then Panda would guess that you have to ask first:

    why the R&D guys of Samsung and LG seem to have some accomplishments now, while their twin brothers in North Korea are still scratching the dirt growing potatos, and likely keep doing so for the foreseeable future?

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  • @Seraphim
    @The New Testament was definitely composed in Greece by white people with pseudonyms such as John, Mark, Paul, etc.

    The undeniable achievements of Europeans are put under doubt by false assertions like the one quoted. History and critical spirit are also a legacy of Greece.
    The Chinese invented more than gun powder, tea and paper. Much more. They had cannons for the gun powder. Even the most loved European entertainment item: alcoholic beverages. And another European favorite: toilet paper! Compass, porcelain, silk, cast iron, Cardan suspension and other trifles don't matter (the list is too long anyway).

    The New Testament was just a blatant ripoff of Egyption religions. Whites coopted an Egyptian religion,then surprise surprise made Jesus a white man instead of the brown skinned man he really was.

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  • @elmer
    White technology has caused global black populations to explode beyond their Malthusian limits.

    White technology has caused global black populations to explode beyond their Malthusian limits.

    Black individuals, too.

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  • @Sam Shama
    You sound a bit frothy at the edges of your mouth there fella!

    Many Asian cultures are old, mature and harbor very smart populations. China and India are both very old civilizations and are ascendant right now. China is a great civilization indeed. You have to remember that China's great rise has great deal to do with Nixon opening the door for China to trade with the USA.

    India has achieved a lot. The chip foundry business is basically a cost competition game, moved from USA to Japan (1980s) to Taiwan to Korea and then to China and now moving inexorably to India too. Look at current investment trends.

    In software the results are interesting: India certainly leads in the "lower code" area, however if you look under the covers in Google, NASA, cloud computing (I have done an extensive look), Indians are actually leading the pack among Asians after White engineers!

    Look at CEOs ((not to mention 2nd rung management) in major International companies like IBM, Microsoft (CEO Satya Nadella) , Intel, Deutsche Bank (CEO Anshu Jain), Citibank (Vikram Pandit), Coca Cola (Indira Nooyi), Berkshire Hathaway (Ajit Jain), and you will notice very unmistakable representation. Certainly Chinese and Koreans are there too, but you cannot miss the obvious.

    Bottom line: Fred is right!

    China and India are both very old civilizations and are ascendant right now

    China and India are the only countries to develop significant nuclear weaponry without a native Jewish population to draw on. Hitler was no closer than Saddam (though nobody calls FDR a liar. Funny how that works.)

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    • Replies: @Sam Shama
    True.

    Its an interesting thing about IQ, I have always wondered. How did the Indians do this with an average IQ of something like 85? Chinese are higher with about 95. Yet if you look at the Jewish population in Israel they have an IQ of about 92 (lower than US average of 100). Yet Israelis are amazing in terms of technological innovation (startup techs). Is it possible that IQ expands with stress? Maybe because the Africans were in such a fertile land their IQs did not need to go up? (Asking those of you who have studied this subject)
    , @PandaAtWar
    Please, don't make a wild (false) claim followed by trying to "answer" it. Panda doesn't know which is funnier. ROFL


    1. India didn't develop significant nuclear weaponry on its own. Moreover, it still doesn't have anything remotely close to "significant" but just some very primitive level nukes, compared to thermonuclear sophistication of what UNSC 5 (US, Russia, China, Britain and France) had 3 decades ago.

    More importantly, India's initial nuke know-how was secretly given by Canada( which in turn got it from America?), with a tacit permission of the US to balance the South Asian regional geopolitics at a time:


    Sixteen of India's 21 currently operating nuclear power plants are indigenously designed PHWRs that can trace their ancestry to two Canadian-designed Candu plants, Rajasthan 1 and 2, which started up in 1973 and 1980.

    http://www.world-nuclear-news.org/NP-Canada-India-contract-strengthens-nuclear-ties-1604157.html

     

    2. North Korea, however, did get nukes, sort of on their own. And yes, primitive ones, but more or less in the league of India/Pakistan pair.

    3. Japan, most likely (Panda's suspicion) is already a secret nuke power - many stories still to be known behind Fukushima "Accident"... Surely it has capability of doing it on their own.

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  • @Dipwill
    Many of the inventions and developments you list, even if largely or overwhelmingly developed by whites, do have significant precedence/origins in non-white civilizations, such as the various mathematics you list, chemistry, physics, aeronautics etc. And you really can't be serious with some of the things you list:

    "Every symphony ever written."
    "Air conditioning. "
    "Dentistry."
    "Surgery."
    "Roads."
    "Buildings."
    "The Bible."
    "Elvis."

    I mean yeah, you could say whites invented modern air conditioning, surgery, and dentistry, but those have all been practiced in various forms throughout the world well before modern times. They could even perform c-sections in pre-colonial Uganda. And asians, jews, various middle easterners etc. have all made plenty of symphonies by now.The others, you have to be trolling with.

    They could even perform c-sections in pre-colonial Uganda

    C-sections themselves are unremarkable.

    C-sections where the mother survives– now that’s something to brag about.

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    • Replies: @Dipwill
    Yes, they were performed with the mother surviving, it was attested to by various european explorers. You can google "uganda c-section" for more.
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  • @dcite
    You obviously don't know much about dance. Ballet is the gothic cathedral of dance. Extremely creative and probably the most completely European form of dance there is. Dancing was so important that there were special teachers for it, in schools and homes up until the lat 19th century. While I don't know if you'd consider the myriad of medieval, renaissance, baroque, and waltzing to be as creative as blacks, I'd say it's a matter of opinion. Black dancing is shaking and jumping with rhythm. White dancing is moving either quickly or slowing, to a melody, rhythm being a minor note. This reminds me of someone who said a black college student told him that blacks taught music to whites. No knowledge at all about history, musical or otherwise.

    This reminds me of someone who said a black college student told him that blacks taught music to whites

    Well, a lot of “cool” white folk have believed the same for the last 60 years or so. Considering the infantile crap serving as popular music during that period, you can hardly blame them for thinking that way.

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  • @Mike Zwick
    Every time you are in a hurry and have to wait at a stop light, thank the black man! http://www.aaregistry.org/historic_events/view/garrett-morgan-inventor-one-first-traffic-lights

    Every time you are in a hurry and have to wait at a stop light, thank the black man

    In my area, both in the suburbs and the countryside, they’re being replaced with roundabouts. Is that racist, or what?

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  • @Dipwill
    Egyptians and sumerians weren't white, sorry. I'm really, really surprised you'd acknowledge the existence of Benin, and even moreso also claim Great Zimbabwe as an african development, which people frequently act like was the only city to have ever arisen in SS africa (it wasn't, and it's not even remotely the most remarkable, so there is more than those two.)

    Yeah, and Ethiopians didn’t consider themselves black in Africa, and even over here, are not too thrilled about the connection.
    People in the middle east actually had fewer sub-Saharan African genes than they do today, 1000 years after the Arabs began a slaver trade. I don’t know what “race” they would have been considered, but in a generally Caucasoid area, more or less, as most are today for that matter. If you want to know degrees of relationship, you can always look at a “genetic distance” chart.
    “Syrians” were close enough that they were entered as “white” in Ellis Island log books. So I don’t. Some people are very picky, but some think in broader terms.

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    • Replies: @Dipwill
    I think significant black admixture only occurs in southern arabians, the idea that the rest of the middle east has significant african ancestry is baseless. Arabs didn't mix with africans for the most part, there are few black communities in the middle east today and those that do are easily distinguishable.
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  • @jackson
    Unlike whites, blacks have really been innovators in the art of dance. For an excellent illustration of this, watch the astounding performance of the young man near the end of this video.

    You obviously don’t know much about dance. Ballet is the gothic cathedral of dance. Extremely creative and probably the most completely European form of dance there is. Dancing was so important that there were special teachers for it, in schools and homes up until the lat 19th century. While I don’t know if you’d consider the myriad of medieval, renaissance, baroque, and waltzing to be as creative as blacks, I’d say it’s a matter of opinion. Black dancing is shaking and jumping with rhythm. White dancing is moving either quickly or slowing, to a melody, rhythm being a minor note. This reminds me of someone who said a black college student told him that blacks taught music to whites. No knowledge at all about history, musical or otherwise.

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    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    This reminds me of someone who said a black college student told him that blacks taught music to whites
     
    Well, a lot of "cool" white folk have believed the same for the last 60 years or so. Considering the infantile crap serving as popular music during that period, you can hardly blame them for thinking that way.
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  • @Hannah Katz
    Not everything, Kyle. I read where the guy who invented the coupling mechanism for train cars was a black guy. At least it is something.

    “I read where the guy who invented the coupling mechanism for train cars was a black guy.”

    Uh, no. Contrary to Afrocentric pseudohistorians, a black guy did not invent the original “Jenny coupler” [sic] in 1897. In fact the name “Jenny coupler” is a corruption of the term Janney coupler, which refers to the automatic knuckle coupler patented in 1873 by Eli H. Janney (white). So, yeah, some internet dopes are giving a black guy credit for an invention that was named many years earlier for a white guy. The black guy did patent a variation of Janney’s device, but so did thousands of other people.

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  • @MarkinLA
    Maybe Fred is just tired of descendants of sub-saharan Africa, where nothing of value ever occurred, constantly talking about "white devils" or blaming whites for every ill or the Afrocentric drivel American blacks spew about Egypt being part of black heritage.

    Yup. As we all are.

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  • @dcite
    Oh, I doubt he's "burned" up. Fred has presented quite enough evidence for his opinion, that one political appointee is not going to negate his argument. We are fully aware of blacks in high positions. However they arrived in those positions, the positions themselves would not exist were it not for whites. But maybe they do see us as gods, considering what they expect us to do for them, or blame us for having done. Takes limitless power.

    I know people at NASA personally, in fairly high positions, and they are not blinded by the appointee's intellect. That's not why he's there--he's there for political reasons, and that's all. The whole place is deeply demoralized. Compared to the sky high roll of the 60s, NASA is a backwater college. That appointee is only doing what he's supposed to do, but nobody needs him to do science.

    We've been through that before on this blog. A black president appoints another black to a position, and this is your idea of proof of black intelligence, was the exchange. NASA, owes its existence and almost 100% of its functioning, good or bad, to whites. If all the black engineers emigrated to Nigeria to build a space program there, there'd be a cheerful send-off and a wave for good luck. But somehow I don't think that'll happen. I did know a really nice black engineer, very competent as far as I know. But the decent people don't rise as much.

    As for ancient Egypt, the Great Pyramid -- the only one that cannot be replicated -- is of such age that we really don't know who first built it. Subsequent pyramids were tombs. Most of the mummies don't look especially sub-Saharan black. A few do, but not most, especially the most ancient ones. All the archealogists I have ever heard of, who have actually put years of work, digging, putting the artifacts together, learning tediously the ancient languages -- have all been Europeans, white Americans, or Egyptians themselves. I have only ever heard of one black person even trying to learn ancient Egyptian, much less going there and becoming a case-cracking Egyptologist. If blacks are so into this area being part of their heritage, I wish they'd scrape together a black archealagist team and get over there and do the work. Doubtless, with the least initative they'd get the funding. But no. They sit back and while whites do it, and then claim they were all geniuses 3000 years ago. Do you realize how silly that sounds? No wonder the Egyptian who oversees the Antiquities goes bonkers when he comes to America and gets shouted down by blacks when he denies they were ancient Egyptians. Go blind him with your own science then.

    We’ve been through that before on this blog. A black president appoints another black to a position, and this is your idea of proof of black intelligence,

    There are intelligent negroes, I don’t know anyone who denies that. Statistically, they are far fewer per capita than whites, East Asians, or Jews and the shape of their bell curve shows that negroes are more clustered near their average with fewer at the extremes both high and low. So it is going to be extraordinarily rare for a negro to present with Mensa level intellect let alone the sort you’ll find winning Fields medals.

    With an average IQ of 65 (without white DNA intermixed), the negro would be considered “mentally retarded” if he were white or East Asian. Political correctness has required us to redefine retardation downward and has even caused IQ testing of negroes to be forbidden in California schools. Negroes never developed a written language or the wheel. They are a Stone Age tribe as you can see in those places they’ve had little to no contact with the outside world (ie central Congo). Bantu tribes still to this day practice cannibalism.

    These facts apparently displease some negroes who read and post comments here. Apparently they subscribe to “guilt by association” theory and think the fact that member of their race are eating other members of their race (or raping infants to try and cure themselves of HIV/AIDS) reflects on them personally. It is rather telling that anyone who dares expose these facts risks brutal violent attack from negroes, but only these commenters here themselves can tell us if the existence of cannibal Bantu says anything about them although they do seem exceptionally defensive about it.

    Most striking however, is that the commenters (and Afro-centrists generally) respond to facts about sub-Saharan Africa, the Bantu, San, and Khoi by claiming a civilization on the other side of the Sahara. Oddly, they can’t seem to find any others on such a vast and fertile continent. They fail to realize that they prove the point with their rebuttal. Similarly, regarding negro IQ, they respond with, “a black man invented the Super Soaker!” It would be hard for a comedy writer to come up with anything so laughable. Bragging that your race’s contribution to human achievement was one particular brand of squirt gun? And yet this is what they do with their chests puffed out and voices rising in pitch, “we made the Super Soaker – we made the Super Soaker!”

    Likewise, with the media’s help, every single incidence of white on black violence is made a national catastrophe. Negroes murdering whites is so commonplace that its mundane. Not even the endless stream of negroes raping and murdering elderly white women, even 100yrs old, will make the national news. Torturing a white child to death with a blowtorch is ignored. Spree killers like Mohammed and Malvo, Thornton, and many others are quickly dumped down the memory hole. Instead, we are subjected to month after month of whining and crying that an attempted cop-killer failed and was shot instead by the cops. And then at long last, when actual innocent negroes are murdered by a white man (if he were a negro he would be called a “teen” or “youth”), it’s such a calamity that we must shred our history books, tear down historical monuments, shred our flags, and destroy every last vestige of southern white culture. Innocent people should never be murdered, but the insane disproportionate response is instructive by itself. And has anyone, anyone at all, found anything untrue in the white murderer’s “manifesto”?

    We have a severe problem in America with 40,000,000 negroes. Half of them are male and half of those, 10,000,000 are responsible for 52% of the homicides in the country. That same 10,000,000 is also responsible for the majority of the armed robbery, rape, etc. And while the media does everything in its power to conceal that Truth, five seconds on the internet reveals all. If we don’t figure out how to pacify this primitive and violent group, we could see some extreme ugliness that no sane person wants to ever see. What’s the answer here? Pay them to go away?

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    • Replies: @Dipwill
    This is probably the craziest post in the entire thread. Since I have some time on my hands, I'll respond to some of it.

    There's a lot you could say about that supposed african IQ score (though is it 70? Or 75? Or 60? I've seen it across the board), but at the end of the day, those figures, atleast as a genotypic measurement, are garbage, and overwhelmingly originate from Lynn and Rushton, who are largely charlatans. You'd do yourself well to go to Human Varieties and see Jason Malloy's analysis of Lynn's work, and his gradual realization how much of a fraud he is in so many regards. But I won't stop you invoking "political correctness!!!" Nevermind the whole "admixture raising their IQ's" bit-

    I've heard it claimed that it's illegal to give blacks an IQ test in California (or that the standards for mental retardation were lowered from 85 to 70), but aside from a story I last read years ago I see passed around, I've never seen any substantiation for it. What evidence do you have that's the case?

    And then we get to claims I've seen a million times about african history- "never invented the wheel." It's true that the wheel was never invented in SS africa, but when you really get down to it, for an early civilization, the wheel is greatly overrated unless you have pack animals, and even then, it's not exactly some huge oversight. The wheelbarrow has only been invented twice in human history and overlooked by countless people who did make use of the wheel. And unless you want to count Ge'ez, it's true written language never arose in SS africa, but then again, written language has only arisen in a handful of places throughout the world.

    Only a handful of groups in SS africa before colonialism never went beyond the stone age. Virtually every single group made use of iron smelting, and there is sizable evidence metal smelting was independently developed in SS africa. Places where they've had little to no contact with the outside world will invariably have iron technology or some form of agriculture, whether it be farming or cattle herding. The widespread polygamy in africa wouldn't be possible without it. And it's true cannibalism still goes on in some parts of SS africa, but most of the continent didn't practice cannibalism, and outside of the congo where it was widespread, it existed in pockets (which is true of many other parts of the world.)

    Unless you were to go around it in public claiming these things at the top of your lungs, I don't think you'll be risking any violent attack on the internet.

    I can point to many civilizations south of the sahara, mainly the many muslim states that existed during the middle ages such as Ghana, Mali, Songhai, Hausaland, Kanem-Bornu etc. It's true that they, being muslims, were heavily influenced by arabs and north africans (and that there is mythologizing about them, such as Timbuktu being home to a world renowned university), but extensive urbanization in west africa existed well before Islam, and developed city-states, particularly in southern Nigeria (such as the Yoruba, Benin etc.) could easily be found in coastal west africa that had little to no influence. And you won't get far in claiming these were the products of berbers and arabs, a claim I've seen made countless times over the years with absolutely no evidence. The africans of the sahel are among the darkest and have little admixture, and the mixed populations in that region- the fulani and tuareg- have for the bulk of their history remained nomads, the fulani only making any attempts at state building until only the past few centuries, and the tuareg today number just over 1 million, with many of them clearly negroid.

    I've never seen anybody claim the super soaker as a great achievement on the part of africans- that was just some joke on the part of SBPDL who in doing so mocked and denigrated a man who's career included far more than a toy. I think it's just you that's seeing anybody bragging about them inventing the supersoaker.

    The rest of your post I admit I don't find as inaccurate, but goes beyond what I'm willing to address. And I'll also just say that you aren't sane.
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  • The white man gives with 1 hand, and takes 3 with the other hands, that’s the problem

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    • Replies: @Truth

    The white man gives with 1 hand, and takes 3 with the other hands, that’s the problem

     

    When the White Mon first came to our region, we had a herd of cattle, and he had a stack of bibles.

    Twenty years later, he had a herd of cattle, and we had a stack of bibles.

    -Bishop Desmond Tutu
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  • @Anonymous
    http://classics.lss.wisc.edu/~bbpowell/web/china.htm

    The Chinese, really the Han, are the most successful race in human history and they are proud of their success. In the Paleolithic their ancestors drove the American Indian across the Bering land bridge. For the last three and a half thousand years they have been more clever than other humans in Asia and outnumber them manyfold. They know that they are beautiful and view with envy and amusement the overweight lumbering pasty Caucasians who visit them now in ever increasing numbers, bringing what the Chinese badly need: hard cold cash. They pity the Caucasians, but are not afraid to hate the Japanese, who come in many tours too, themselves often fat, because all Chinese remember the horrors of the Japanese occupation, and they despise an upstart Asian people who took from them the arts of civilization and turned these arts against their natural master. Everyone in China agrees that now things are going to be different, and in our lifetime.

    One of every four human beings is Han Chinese, making up 93% of the 1.2 billion people who live in China. The other 7% are the 55 “minorities,” who have special rights in the People’s Republic of China (PRC), including the right to have more than one child. But the real Chinese are the Han, descended, they say, directly from the Han dynasty, when China was first unified. You quickly learn that everything in China is explained in terms of dynasties, and you need to get a handle on them to understand what is being said. Roughly, the Han extended from 200 years before to 200 years after Christ, and thus was contemporaneous with the Roman Republic and early Roman Empire. The two empires stood at opposite ends of the transcontinental Silk Road, and over this road, through middlemen, conducted trade relations. The present form of Chinese writing comes from the Han and is called Hanzi.

    The contributions of the Han weigh enormously into the accomplishment of civilization, though are almost unknown, even to the Chinese themselves, who think of their great contributions as merely “The Four Inventions:” gunpowder, the compass, paper, and printing. But Joseph Needham of Cambridge University, who died in 1995, the greatest sinologist of his generation, spent his long life assembling evidence for the other extraordinary Chinese achievements in science and technology, published in his monumental Science and Civilization in China, of which nine volumes and several supplements have appeared. According to Needham’s work, the Han also invented the row cultivation of crops, the iron plow, and the horse collar, which transformed European agriculture when it came West in 700 A.D., 1,000 years after its invention in China. They invented the seed-drill, cast iron, and discovered how to make steel from cast iron. They invented the double-acting piston bellows, the crank handle, deep drilling for natural gas, the belt drive, water power, the suspension bridge, the essentials of the steam engine, the segmental arch bridge, lacquer, strong beer, petroleum and natural gas as fuel, the wheelbarrow, sliding calipers, and the fishing reel. The Chinese invention of the stirrup revolutionized warfare when it reached Europe in the 5th century A.D. and made possible the heavily armed knight, the crusades, and medieval romance. Of course the Chinese invented porcelain, a high-fired special clay--sometimes translucent--which rings when struck, always the most valued ceramic in the world. The Chinese invented the umbrella, biological pest control, matches, and chess, though most think the game came from India. They invented brandy and whiskey (which we could never seem to find), the mechanical clock, and systems of movable type seven hundred years before Gutenberg. They invented playing-cards and paper money, the spinning-wheel, the decimal system, the kite, and first experimented with manned flight with kites, made the first relief maps and invented the rudder. The Chinese first found a place for zero, invented negative numbers, and learned how to extract higher roots. They first worked with decimal fractions, used algebra in geometry, refined the value of pi, and defined “Pascal’s” triangle of binomial coefficients. The paddle-wheel boat is a Chinese invention too, as is land sailing, the canal pound-lock, batten sails and staggered masts, multiple masts, leeboards, and watertight compartments in ships. Already in the Shang dynasty (1800-1200 B.C.) the Chinese had invented the large tuned bell and tuned drums. Daoist priests discovered hermetically sealed research laboratories and first understood musical timbre and equal temperament in music (how to make the circle of fifths correspond with the octave, so that music can be modulated from key to key). In warfare the Chinese remained for long transcendent, inventing poison gas, smoke bombs, tear gas, the crossbow, flame-throwers, flares, grenades, metal cased bombs, land and sea-mines, and the rocket, both single and multistage. They invented the fire stick and the first true gun. The Chinese first understood how to diagnose diabetes through urine analysis and described the circulation of the blood 1,800 years before it was understood in the West. The Chinese discovered the solar wind, made the first Mercator map-projection, and recognized sunspots as solar phenomena. They understood circadian rhythms in the human body in the 2nd century B.C., invented the helicopter rotor and propeller, and the seismograph, and described the first law of motion 2,000 years before Newton. Only a European could discover and explain to Chinese their own past, because in China the past is not made by men striving for perfection, but is a moral pageant illustrating the universal state’s approach to and decline from heavenly favor. In China there has never been, and can never be, a scientific historiography.
     

    If the Chinese were so good and brilliant then why did it take a white man to unearth all this info about their history?

    That’s what gets me about these non white past cultures that we are supposed to believe are equal to the West, like the Aztecs and the Egyptians. It’s always white European historians that do all the digging and exploring and then who write the books.

    Regarding the Chinese. There are two schools of thought. The genetic explanation is that the Chinese are somehow lacking in some subtle aspect of cognition and cannot function as well as whites at least at the top end of the scale. The culture explanation is that they can and its only a matter of time before they overtake whites in terms of accomplishment. Or something like that.

    I favour the genetic explanation. Here’s why. Here is a list of eminent British mathematicians living today: Roger Penrose (Tilings), John Conway (Game of Life), Andrew Wiles (Fermat’ s Theorem), Simon Donaldson (something or other to do with Topology), Ben Green (Primes in Arithmetic Progression), Martin Baker (something to do with Transcendental Numbers). (This is an extempore list and it might need updating.) OTOH I can only really think of one equally eminent Mathematician who is Chinese, namely Terence Tau. But there are 26 times as many Chinese and they dominate the maths olympiad. What’s going on?

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    • Replies: @Dipwill
    I don't know what you're implying with the first part of your post. Needham worked extensively in tandem with the Chinese in developing his work. I've never heard of Needham's series being a discovery of lost chinese accomplishments. Nobody here is arguing the Aztecs and Egyptians are equal to the west, and to that end, the Aztec civilization was basically destroyed by spanish disease and such, and the ancient egyptian civilization has been buried and forgotten over countless invasions spanning centuries and centuries.

    I think it's a mix with the Chinese. Here's a pretty good example- the vast overwhelming majority of accomplishments on the part of east asians in the past came about from the Chinese. Now, it's overwhelmingly been on the part of the Japanese, and a disproportionate number of chinese accomplishments come from ones in western nations, and the Japanese continue to amass nobel prizes.
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  • Many of the inventions and developments you list, even if largely or overwhelmingly developed by whites, do have significant precedence/origins in non-white civilizations, such as the various mathematics you list, chemistry, physics, aeronautics etc. And you really can’t be serious with some of the things you list:

    “Every symphony ever written.”
    “Air conditioning. ”
    “Dentistry.”
    “Surgery.”
    “Roads.”
    “Buildings.”
    “The Bible.”
    “Elvis.”

    I mean yeah, you could say whites invented modern air conditioning, surgery, and dentistry, but those have all been practiced in various forms throughout the world well before modern times. They could even perform c-sections in pre-colonial Uganda. And asians, jews, various middle easterners etc. have all made plenty of symphonies by now.The others, you have to be trolling with.

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    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    They could even perform c-sections in pre-colonial Uganda
     
    C-sections themselves are unremarkable.

    C-sections where the mother survives-- now that's something to brag about.
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  • JSM says:
    @Flower
    You are correct; however, I think you are more correct than you realize. Yes, indeed, math is hard. Very hard. At least, for me it was. There are those people, though, who just seem to absorb math (and all it's subtleties) out of the ether. My older brother is like that, his one saving grace (at least as far as I was concerned) was that he was the best I ever heard at explaining it. He just had a knack, I guess. But math kicked my butt, especially Calculus. And looking back at it, I most likely would have just tossed it all into the garbage if it hadn't been for the encouragement that I got. A little of the encouragement was overt, from friends and classmates, but most of it was passive. The best way to say it is that I think I finished Calculus (got an A-) because it was expected of me. My family, my culture, even my white race were all expecting me to pass, so I did. I wonder how many black kids, particularly in the inner cities, would be encouraged as I was? I can just hear Fred somewhere lamenting, "Give it up, kid, it just ain't in your genes."

    My family, my culture, even my white race were all expecting me to pass, so I did. I wonder how many black kids, particularly in the inner cities, would be encouraged as I was? I can just hear Fred somewhere lamenting, “Give it up, kid, it just ain’t in your genes.”

    Ah, that’s it, by Jove. It’s the failure to encourage! The gene for encouraging people is what’s lacking in the genes of the black folks. That’s why they fail!

    So, how do we do an eugenics program to get the genes for encouraging into Blacks? Funny, though, they are *very* good at encouraging black boys to play basketball. Weird…

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  • @Bill Jones
    The greater evil is the murder of others, not the "Killing their own for unjust reasons"

    Whaaaa….killing one’s own for unjust reasons IS murder. So, are you saying that killing a stranger’s child is worse than killing one’s own?

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  • @Sam Shama
    I have no dog in this "fight" [email protected]

    I work in the tech area and I observe and look at data. I don't understand the reason why you think I am trying to be PC etc.

    As I said,

    Then in the ‘70s and ‘80s, waves of IIT graduates migrated to the Valley because they felt stifled by India’s socialist regime (IIT’s are India’s top engineering colleges). One by one they mastered the Valley’s unwritten rules of engagement and shattered its glass ceiling. Engineers such as Vinod Dham started creating breakthrough technologies such as the Pentium chip, and entrepreneurs such as Kanwal Rekhi and Vinod Khosla co-founded companies like Excelan and Sun Microsystems. They also started helping each other and formed their own entrepreneurial networks.

    Twenty five percent of the nation's startups and 52% of those in Silicon Valley were founded by immigrants. Indian immigrants were the leading company founding group. They founded 13.4% of Silicon Valley's startups and 6.5% of those nationwide. This when you consider that 0.9% of U.S. population is Indian

     

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/singularity/2012/10/15/how-indians-defied-gravity-and-achieved-success-in-silicon-valley/

    My ethnicity is unimportant . I work with a lot of smart people including people of Northern European, Jewish, Indian and other Asian ancestry. You are creating a straw man fight here.

    If there’s one thing you learn on this board, Chief, it is that no one’s “ethnicity is unimportant.”

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  • @Anonymous
    What China didn't have was the red mans gold, which the white man helped himself to a great deal. Also the use of slavery helped to propel the white mans economy during this time.

    Gold has nothing to do with the industrialization of Europe and neither did slaves in America.

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  • @Hippopotamusdrome

    The point is that Europe’s access to the world’s wealth gave it an advantage over other nations
     
    By the 1500s, Europe could produce ships that could circumnavigate the globe, armed with broadsides of cannons that made them invincible against fleets of non-cannon equipped ships. On land they had masses of gun equipped infantry and batteries of cannons, invincible against non-gun equipped armies. Colonisation of the world flowed naturally from this technological advancement.

    According to the author of ‘ Guns Germs and Steel’, the flat terrain in Europe was

    more conducive to conflicts among European countries which in turn drove

    technological advancement in armament which in turn provided Europe with weapons for

    conquest and thus access to the world’s resources and wealth.

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  • @Truth

    Truth….did you ever notice that “absolute brilliance” is little more than agreeing with Truth?
     
    By George, I think he's starting to get it.

    Still not convinced you’re a black guy.

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  • @hotrod31
    Wakey! Wakey! Hands off snakey ... Perspective is in the eye of the beholder.

    "White countries?" what a novel turn of phraseology. Could you perhaps elaborate on Y-O-U-R perspective of so called, "white countries?" Like where? Canada, Australia, New Zealand, USA, Palestine, etc?

    If your, and my forebears only stayed put in their "white countries," there would be a whole lot less bloodshed and international dysfunction and a lot more peace in the world.

    If your, and my forebears only stayed put in their “white countries,” there would be a whole lot less bloodshed and international dysfunction and a lot more peace in the world.

    I agree with the sentiment in a portion of your statement: If your forebears had stayed put, there would be a lot less dysfunctional reasoning.

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  • @Anonymous
    Well , according to Kenneth Pomeranz ,the author of 'The Great Divergence: China , Europe and the Making of the Modern World' as recently as 1750 , there were no significant differences in development between the advanced part of Europe and East Asia, particularly China, but things began to change in Europe favor due to its access to America's resources and coal. The point is that Europe's access to the world's wealth gave it an advantage over other nations .

    The point is that Europe’s access to the world’s wealth gave it an advantage over other nations

    By the 1500s, Europe could produce ships that could circumnavigate the globe, armed with broadsides of cannons that made them invincible against fleets of non-cannon equipped ships. On land they had masses of gun equipped infantry and batteries of cannons, invincible against non-gun equipped armies. Colonisation of the world flowed naturally from this technological advancement.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    According to the author of ' Guns Germs and Steel', the flat terrain in Europe was

    more conducive to conflicts among European countries which in turn drove

    technological advancement in armament which in turn provided Europe with weapons for

    conquest and thus access to the world's resources and wealth.

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  • @food
    panda is definitely a mongoloid, no question about it. The Indus valley (mohan je daro) civilization was decimated by Aryans, much like the proto-Europeans decimated by the same Aryan invasion into Europe.

    Modern Aryans (i.e. the 500 million people of India, the people of the Edda with their swastikas on every temple and very house) are indistinguishable (genetics, bone, face, body, prevalence of celiac/gluten allergies) from Europeans (except skin color which is selected for ultra high UV levels in their climate). The very word "Indo" in "Indo-European" specifically refers to India.

    Meanwhile mongoloid monkey/rat/dog eating proto hominids look like something out of an alien invasion, roaches smeared across the landscape. Are there *any* artists or scientists or linguists from mongoloid countries or it is all ding ding ching chong all the way back to prehistory ? (no alphabet in mongoloid races of course, these savages actually *draw* words)

    [It's much preferable to avoid leaving multiple short comments, and instead combine them into a single, more substantial one in order to avoid cluttering up a comment-thread.]

    You have absolutely no idea how intellectually stimulating the way you went full-on ad hominem by managing pulling out entire paraphraghs of it… Spare Panda the Cow Pee Cola, but if you, food (so no Newport or Mcdonard this time?), just realised that Panda is Mongoloid or “Chinaman” after 160 odd posts, then congrats my Indian, opps typo, my “Aryan” friend (rofl), you must have a heck lot of IQ that could make a potato jealous.

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  • So, how does all this square with Fred Reed’s Mexican spouse and his love of Mexicans?

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  • @jeppo
    There's no doubt that whites are the world's most successful race, but it's mainly a subset of them, Northern Europeans or Teutonics, that truly dominate the modern world.

    http://thosewhocansee.blogspot.fr/2014/11/theres-something-about-teutonics.html

    There's a whole whack of national rankings at that link that I believe prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that Northern Europeans have created the most successful societies on Earth by far, not only compared to the non-white world, but compared to Southern and Eastern Europe as well.

    To that mountain of evidence I would add the Human Development Index, which in the 2014 rankings the top 8 nations were in Northern Europe or one of its overseas offshoots, and all 18 Northern European nations finished in the top 24.

    As for Nobel Prizes, Northern European nations have won 760 of them, compared to only 297 for the entire rest of the world combined. That is, 8% of the world's population have won 72% of the Nobel Prizes, and if we eliminate the 'fluff' prizes like Peace and Literature, then Northern Euros have probably won an even higher percentage of prizes in the hard sciences.

    Some individuals are counted for more than one nation, like Marie Curie, who won the 1903 Physics Prize and is counted for both Poland and France (in Eastern and Southern Europe respectively). Of course not all the Northern European winners were ethnic 'Teutonics'. Many were Jews. But they were all citizens of-, working in-, and under the auspices of the Northern European nations.

    In terms of the world's most livable cities, the top ten listed by Mercer's are all in Northern Europe or its overseas offshoots, as are the top ten selected by the Economist Intelligence Unit. Of the top 25 selected by Monocle Magazine, 16 are Northern European, including 10 of the top 11.

    I could go on, but you get the idea. So when Fred Reed talks about White Supremacy, what he actually means is Nordic/Germanic/Teutonic/Northwestern European/Northern European Supremacy.

    What’s with all of these across the board racial terms for them? Why don’t you just settle on one, like “nordics” or “aryans”?

    Putting that aside, this angle is more than a little disingenuous. That post is heavily about modern living standards- it’s true that northern europeans are disproportionately responsible for the modern world, but swedes, norwegians, icelandics (which was a total backwater until quite recently) and finns (who aren’t “teutonic” or “nordic”, really) fall far behind on the historic accomplishment list, so in this case, it’s mainly the british, germans, and dutch. The nobel prize didn’t come about until the 19th century, so using that as a barometer for historical accomplishment isn’t entirely honest either- that post doesn’t once bother to underline France (which is right up there with Britain and Germany in historical accomplishments), and you’ll find that Italy and Russia and more have played far bigger roles than what that post would imply, such as even Murray’s work. And through it all, I don’t think it can be denied the scandinavian countries have an extreme, essentially suicidal streak of liberalism among them, and in ways sexual hedonism. I think the reasons for that are a bit more complex than the spergy ideations over the “hajnal line” and such. I mean yeah, their countries on their own have the best living standards, but they also seem to be the most eager to throw them away, and to that end, I don’t think it’s fair to say they have such low levels of corruption- what would you call nearly non-existent immigration standards or what goes on in Britain? You can’t blame all of that on the jews. Nevermind so many of these were based on polls.

    Nice attempt at the nordicism though.

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