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    Charles Murray writes in the Wall Street Journal: Why the SAT Isn’t a ‘Student Affluence Test’ A lot of the apparent income effect on standardized tests is owed to parental IQ—a fact that needs addressing. By CHARLES MURRAY March 24, 2015 7:11 p.m. ET ... The results are always the same: The richer the parents,...
  • @Anonymous
    The SAT exists for the same reason that every standardized test exists, to create make-work jobs and an industry that provides no real value. Also, the SAT does prevent poor students from going to college since getting a decent score requires classes and multiple test attempts for most students. However, that's probably for the best since most people shouldn't go to college anyway.

    The real problem, as noted accurately by Nassim Taleb, is that modern society places too much importance on formal education, standardized tests, credentials, etc. We fall into the trap of thinking that education creates wealth when it is largely a byproduct of wealth.

    Plus, the notion that one can accurately measure the future potential of someone with standardized tests is completely ridiculous anyway. A lot of smart students do badly on the SAT because it just isn't their thing.

    Also, the SAT does prevent poor students from going to college since getting a decent score requires classes and multiple test attempts for most students.

    All I know is that I scored over 1400 on the old SAT on only one try, without any preparation classes. Though as regards preparation: I was an assiduous reader from second grade on, which definitely would have helped my SAT-Verbal score. Perhaps reading a lot is “preparation.” I recall reading about one college basketball star, currently in the NBA, who was so proud that at the age of 21 or 21 he had finally read a book cover to cover. Yes, students like that are going to have trouble on the SAT. Surprise, surprise. Seems to me that people who read hardly at all are not college material in the first place- though some may look good on a college team.

    As there are community colleges that take any student, SAT scores do not prevent poor students from going to colleges. For the claim that SATs are just a hoop to jump through, my reply is that I very much doubt that anyone with a SAT-Math below 400 – or 500 for that matter- is going to be a successful STEM student.

    I am not a complete fan of standardized tests. For example, I am skeptical about the ability of standardized tests to evaluate writing ability.

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  • <the SAT does prevent poor students

    A high SAT score is one of the most dependable ways for a “poor” student to access a college education.

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  • Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    The SAT exists for the same reason that every standardized test exists, to create make-work jobs and an industry that provides no real value. Also, the SAT does prevent poor students from going to college since getting a decent score requires classes and multiple test attempts for most students. However, that’s probably for the best since most people shouldn’t go to college anyway.

    The real problem, as noted accurately by Nassim Taleb, is that modern society places too much importance on formal education, standardized tests, credentials, etc. We fall into the trap of thinking that education creates wealth when it is largely a byproduct of wealth.

    Plus, the notion that one can accurately measure the future potential of someone with standardized tests is completely ridiculous anyway. A lot of smart students do badly on the SAT because it just isn’t their thing.

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    • Replies: @Gringo
    Also, the SAT does prevent poor students from going to college since getting a decent score requires classes and multiple test attempts for most students.

    All I know is that I scored over 1400 on the old SAT on only one try, without any preparation classes. Though as regards preparation: I was an assiduous reader from second grade on, which definitely would have helped my SAT-Verbal score. Perhaps reading a lot is "preparation." I recall reading about one college basketball star, currently in the NBA, who was so proud that at the age of 21 or 21 he had finally read a book cover to cover. Yes, students like that are going to have trouble on the SAT. Surprise, surprise. Seems to me that people who read hardly at all are not college material in the first place- though some may look good on a college team.

    As there are community colleges that take any student, SAT scores do not prevent poor students from going to colleges. For the claim that SATs are just a hoop to jump through, my reply is that I very much doubt that anyone with a SAT-Math below 400 - or 500 for that matter- is going to be a successful STEM student.

    I am not a complete fan of standardized tests. For example, I am skeptical about the ability of standardized tests to evaluate writing ability.
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  • @Gringo
    The founding stock of the U.S. is English. Germans were later arrivals.

    That depends on how you define "later." One of my German ancestors immigrated to New York in the 1640s. He had initially fled to the Netherlands for religious freedoms not then available in his homeland. Then to America. Of my German ancestors, all came to the US before the American Revolution- several of whom fought in the Revolution.

    That depends on how you define “later.” One of my German ancestors immigrated to New York in the 1640s. He had initially fled to the Netherlands for religious freedoms not then available in his homeland. Then to America. Of my German ancestors, all came to the US before the American Revolution- several of whom fought in the Revolution.

    Ok, that’s your particular case. But during the height of Italian-, Irish, and Jewish-immigration, there were still ethnic German and Nordic immigrant enclaves in NYC.

    Even in the Midwest, the land of Germans and Nordics in America, a lot of white Americans of such ancestry seem to trace that element of their origin to relatively recent migrants from Europe (19th Century).

    For example, my wife belongs to a fairly prominent family in the upper Midwest. On her patrilineal line, she can trace the English part of her ancestry to an officer in the Revolutionary War all the way to the Mayflower (which is why her father is eligible for membership in the Society of Cincinnati). On her mother’s side, however, a majority of the ancestors are Germans (Bavarians, mostly) who arrived in the 19th Century. In fact, her maternal grandmother was born to German immigrants (her maternal grandfather was born to earlier immigrants from Germany and Sweden).

    In fact, there are still some ethnic Northern European towns left in the Midwest. Pella, Iowa is known locally for its tulip festival and many of its residents having the name “van” in front of their surnames (Pella was founded in the mid-19th Century by Dutch immigrants, and is also famous as Wyatt Earp’s childhood home). Elk Horn is known as one of the largest Danish settlements in rural America (was founded and built in the late 19th Century and early 20th Century). There was even a documentary made in Denmark called “Denmark in the Prairie” about Elk Horn.

    Indeed in parts of the Midwest, there used to be some friction between English-speaking residents and the Germans over the latter’s use of German, but all that largely died down during World War I and on (in North and South Dakota German is still the no. 2 language after English).

    According to Wiki:

    Between 1843 and 1910, more than 5 million Germans emigrated overseas,[16] mostly to the United States.[27] German remained an important medium for churches, schools, newspapers, and even the administration of the United States Brewers’ Association[28] through the early 20th century, but was severely repressed during World War I. Over the course of the 20th century many of the descendants of 18th century and 19th century immigrants ceased speaking German at home, but small populations of speakers can still be found in Pennsylvania (Amish, Hutterites, Dunkards and some Mennonites historically spoke Hutterite German and a West Central German variety of German known as Pennsylvania German or Pennsylvania Dutch), Kansas (Mennonites and Volga Germans), North Dakota (Hutterite Germans, Mennonites, Russian Germans, Volga Germans, and Baltic Germans), South Dakota, Montana, Texas (Texas German), Wisconsin, Indiana, Oregon, Oklahoma, and Ohio (72,570).[29] A significant group of German Pietists in Iowa formed the Amana Colonies and continue to practice speaking their heritage language. Early twentieth century immigration was often to St. Louis, Chicago, New York, Milwaukee, Pittsburgh and Cincinnati.

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  • @Gringo
    The founding stock of the U.S. is English. Germans were later arrivals.

    That depends on how you define "later." One of my German ancestors immigrated to New York in the 1640s. He had initially fled to the Netherlands for religious freedoms not then available in his homeland. Then to America. Of my German ancestors, all came to the US before the American Revolution- several of whom fought in the Revolution.

    Fairly significant numbers of Dutch, Germans, French (Huguenots), and even Swedes were centered in New Amsterdam and associated colonies concurrent with Plymouth and Jamestown. Of course these early immigrants got absorbed for the most part but their families still exist, and remember their heritage. Our earliest German ancestor, for example, was a refugee of the 30 Years War.

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  • @Twinkie

    Von Braun was a German. The founding stock of the US is substantially German. I’d say he wasn’t really a racial or cultural outsider.
     
    That's rather funny since my wife's grandmother (who was born to German immigrants), when she was a child, was warned not to speak German by her family during the years when Germany was an enemy.

    The founding stock of the U.S. is English. Germans were later arrivals. They assimilated, because the hosts and the hosting elites insisted on it... which is what needs to happen now (as well as dramatically reducing legal immigration and eliminating illegal immigration).

    Even if we enacted an immigration moratorium as JSM wanted, we still have to assimilate those who are already here rather than have them become pawns of the multiculturalists.

    Chinese nationals are often spies btw. Industrial Espionage is rife.
     
    Industrial espionage IS indeed rife. But if you knew anything about it, you'd be more careful on Air France front cabins and in Paris hotels hosting defense industry conferences than worrying about most Chinese nationals who are not spies (most Chinese visitors are here to tour and shop, shop, shop). Of course, there ARE spies among Chinese nationals and even some among purported immigrants, and China is a very serious concern, so appropriate countermeasures are warranted.

    And, in case you didn't catch it, I am not keen on immigration from China (or India for that matter, for another reason).

    The founding stock of the U.S. is English. Germans were later arrivals.

    That depends on how you define “later.” One of my German ancestors immigrated to New York in the 1640s. He had initially fled to the Netherlands for religious freedoms not then available in his homeland. Then to America. Of my German ancestors, all came to the US before the American Revolution- several of whom fought in the Revolution.

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    • Replies: @SPMoore8
    Fairly significant numbers of Dutch, Germans, French (Huguenots), and even Swedes were centered in New Amsterdam and associated colonies concurrent with Plymouth and Jamestown. Of course these early immigrants got absorbed for the most part but their families still exist, and remember their heritage. Our earliest German ancestor, for example, was a refugee of the 30 Years War.
    , @Twinkie

    That depends on how you define “later.” One of my German ancestors immigrated to New York in the 1640s. He had initially fled to the Netherlands for religious freedoms not then available in his homeland. Then to America. Of my German ancestors, all came to the US before the American Revolution- several of whom fought in the Revolution.
     
    Ok, that's your particular case. But during the height of Italian-, Irish, and Jewish-immigration, there were still ethnic German and Nordic immigrant enclaves in NYC.

    Even in the Midwest, the land of Germans and Nordics in America, a lot of white Americans of such ancestry seem to trace that element of their origin to relatively recent migrants from Europe (19th Century).

    For example, my wife belongs to a fairly prominent family in the upper Midwest. On her patrilineal line, she can trace the English part of her ancestry to an officer in the Revolutionary War all the way to the Mayflower (which is why her father is eligible for membership in the Society of Cincinnati). On her mother's side, however, a majority of the ancestors are Germans (Bavarians, mostly) who arrived in the 19th Century. In fact, her maternal grandmother was born to German immigrants (her maternal grandfather was born to earlier immigrants from Germany and Sweden).

    In fact, there are still some ethnic Northern European towns left in the Midwest. Pella, Iowa is known locally for its tulip festival and many of its residents having the name "van" in front of their surnames (Pella was founded in the mid-19th Century by Dutch immigrants, and is also famous as Wyatt Earp's childhood home). Elk Horn is known as one of the largest Danish settlements in rural America (was founded and built in the late 19th Century and early 20th Century). There was even a documentary made in Denmark called "Denmark in the Prairie" about Elk Horn.

    Indeed in parts of the Midwest, there used to be some friction between English-speaking residents and the Germans over the latter's use of German, but all that largely died down during World War I and on (in North and South Dakota German is still the no. 2 language after English).

    According to Wiki:

    Between 1843 and 1910, more than 5 million Germans emigrated overseas,[16] mostly to the United States.[27] German remained an important medium for churches, schools, newspapers, and even the administration of the United States Brewers' Association[28] through the early 20th century, but was severely repressed during World War I. Over the course of the 20th century many of the descendants of 18th century and 19th century immigrants ceased speaking German at home, but small populations of speakers can still be found in Pennsylvania (Amish, Hutterites, Dunkards and some Mennonites historically spoke Hutterite German and a West Central German variety of German known as Pennsylvania German or Pennsylvania Dutch), Kansas (Mennonites and Volga Germans), North Dakota (Hutterite Germans, Mennonites, Russian Germans, Volga Germans, and Baltic Germans), South Dakota, Montana, Texas (Texas German), Wisconsin, Indiana, Oregon, Oklahoma, and Ohio (72,570).[29] A significant group of German Pietists in Iowa formed the Amana Colonies and continue to practice speaking their heritage language. Early twentieth century immigration was often to St. Louis, Chicago, New York, Milwaukee, Pittsburgh and Cincinnati.
     
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  • @Twinkie

    It just seems to me that in one instance you are attributing multiple factors, including genetics, and in the other you withdraw all variables except the “people”.
     
    Context, please.

    Note I was contrasting "economics" vs. "people," in other words falsifying the notion of economics as the primary causal variable in crime rates, by comparing ghetto blacks with even poorer Appalachian whites who have considerably lower violent crime rates than the former.

    Economics is what I called earlier "a minor variable." Things like income are manifestations of the interplay of genes, environment, and culture rather than major causal factors as the latter three.

    And when I say "people" I don't just mean "race." I mean a group of people who are products of a particular place (and time) and culture who in turn create and shape that place and culture.

    To put simply, race is very important, but it's not everything. I, as Mr. Sailer seemingly does, attribute outcomes to some combination of nature and nurture (he often uses the "fifty-fifty" line as a rough estimate, and I don't think that's a bad starting point).

    There are some folks on these pages who are "nature only." I am not one of them. In real life and in the scientific community, the debate is between the dominant environmentarians who attribute everything or almost everything to nurture and the insurgent hereditarians who attribute nature as a component, meaning nature + nurture.

    I agree. Poverty does not cause criminal behavior.

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  • @Twinkie

    That, my friend, is the most intellectual thing you have written thusfar.
     
    1. We are not friends.

    2. You lecturing me about "intellectual" matters is akin to a black man "teaching" an East Asian differential equations.

    Lol, so rude… zombie!!

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  • http://cnsnews.com/mrctv-blog/sean-long/ed-sec-new-teachers-come-bottom-third-their-college-class

    Unfortunately, US high school teachers are not very bright types. You can not reason with low IQ types. The notoriety is well knnown in the world.

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  • @The most deplorable one

    I think the reasons for Western European dominance since the 17-18th Centuries are multiple, some possibly genetic, but much of it probably environmental and historical and a part of it even chance. And as can be seen from the rise and fall of various dominant Eurasian civilizations, it was neither preordained nor destined to be the case forever.
     
    Nick Szabo suggests that it starts further back than that:

    http://unenumerated.blogspot.com/2014/10/transportation-divergence-and.html

    http://unenumerated.blogspot.com/2013/11/european-asian-divergence-predates.html

    He has some other stuff at that site including a very interesting posting on Dead Reckoning and the Exploration Explosion and the Italian use of the compass and sand glass to navigate reliably long distances by sea:

    http://unenumerated.blogspot.com/2012/10/dead-reckoning-and-exploration-explosion.html

    Nick Szabo suggests that it starts further back than that:

    Of course, the Western European dominance of the last three hundred years or so did not just arise out of thin air. There were pre-conditions that made that dominance possible.

    But I would argue that the growing power imbalance between Western Europe and, say, China was also, in part, due to the relative decline of the latter during those centuries. Just as the Europeans were venturing into the Indian Ocean and the Pacific, the Chinese retreated from them due to their own domestic reasons.

    the Italian use of the compass and sand glass to navigate reliably long distances by sea:

    He has some interesting speculations and theories, but he is wrong about the Chinese maritime technologies of the period immediately preceding the European explosion into the high seas. To wit: http://mycoordinates.org/zheng-he%E2%80%99s-sailing-to-west-ocean/all/1/

    3 THE TECHNOLOGY

    Various advanced technologies of the time were employed by Zheng He and his fleet to make the great feat. He successfully inherited the practice of former navigators in Chinese history and assimilated their ocean-going knowledge. He selected excellent sailors, made thorough preparations and built various types of seaworthy ships equipped with well-designed devices such as stabilization boards, watertight compartments, precise compass, and star boards. Based on the knowledge of his predecessors and the sea-going practice of his own, he prepared scientific navigation charts, which are of great value in history. He inherited and innovated the Chinese tradition of navigation through celestial observation. By inventing the technique of star board measurement for determining the height of celestial bodies and thus positioning, he elevated the navigation technology to a new level. He also had studied the general patterns of monsoon in the in the Chinese sea area, Indian Ocean and Arabian Sea and made effective use of these studies in his trip. The following subsections are contributed to part of the technologies employed by Zheng He and his fleet.

    3.1 Ship building

    China has a long history of building ships. The general design featured vertical sails, with neither horizontal sails nor fastening ropes. The sails were usually made of cloth or woven by bamboo chips stiffened by bamboo poles for wind-efficiency. With centuries of experience in building ship to sail storm-tossed oceans, the Chinese marine engineers had evolved a robust frame built in sections. Each section was contained by watertight bulkheads at either end, resembling the internal partitions of a bamboo. The watertight sections were bolted together with brass pins weighing several kilograms. Three layers of hardwood were nailed to a teak frame, and then the planks were caulked (made waterproof) with coir (coconut fibre) and sealed with a mixture of boiled tung-tree oil and lime. This hard, waterproof lacquer had been used to seal Chinese ocean-going ships since the seventh century, but so much tung-tree oil was required to build Zheng He’s treasure fleets that acres of land along the Yangtze banks were acquired to plant orchards of tung trees.

    Marine engineers at the Longjiang shipyards designed their ships to survive the fiercest storms on the open ocean. Reinforced bows enabled the vessel to smash through the waves, and at either side of the bow were channels leading to internal compartments. As the square bow pitched in heavy seas, water was funnelled in; as the bow surfaced above the waves, the water drained out, modifying the pitching motion. A teak keel bound together by iron hoops ran the length of the ship, and specially cut, large rectangular stones – or composite stone and mud balls – were packed around it for ballast. Additional keels that could be raised and lowered were fitted at either side for more stability. In a storm, semi-submersible sea anchors could also be thrown overboard to reduce rolling. Even in the roughest weather and sea conditions, pitching and rolling were greatly reduced by these ingenious modifications. With the sophisticated technologies China was able to build largest ship of the world at the time. Some record noted the treasure ship is as large as 132m in length and 54m of width. Figure 2 compares the treasure ship to Columbus’s St. Maria.

    ship

    The giant ship could survive typhoons and the sectional construction reduced the risk of sinking in case of a collision with a reef or an iceberg. They were designed to remain afloat even if two compartments were flooded after being punctured by coral or ice. To increase cargo capacity, the hulls of the junks were very wide compared with their length and they were float-bottomed. Their sails were balanced lugs, four-sided sails hanging from a yardarm set at an oblique angle – the characteristic sail of China. They were stiffened by a series of bamboo battens, so the design was extremely efficient when sailing before the wind. It also allowed the sails to be reefed, or lowered, quickly in an emergency.
    A story tells that Zheng He’s flagship was once holed on a reef but its triple hull and watertight compartments enabled him to reach Malacca without sinking, according to some legend.
    It is also proposed that we can envisage the development of modern shipping industry by comparing that of Zheng He’s time. Shipbuilding at the time had shown the characteristics of large size, high speed and specialization (Yang & Jin 2005).

    –~~~~~~~~~~~~–
    3.2 Celestial fixing

    Zheng He developed a whole set of navigation technology by looking at stars. Accompanying Zheng He’s nautical chart, there were four stellar diagrams. Figure 3 shows portions of two of them. Those diagrams passed on by Zheng He have not only enabled us to recapture the stars observed by navigators but also revealed the secrets of ancient navigation.

    Zheng He was able to determine his latitude by measuring the height of Polaris to the north and Southern Cross to the south. Twelve star boards (Fig.4) were used depending on the different height of the stars. The size of the largest board is around 24 cm by 24 cm (12 fingers as it was termed at the time, using the size of human thumb) and the smallest, 2 cm by 2 cm (1 finger), with 2 cm difference in succession (Zhao 2005). By using the attached thread, around 60 cm in length, the observer was able to fix the distance from the eye to the board, thus fix the angle of observation of the board, about 1.9° per finger. When observing the celestial bodies, the observer aligned the star on the upper side of the board and the horizon to the lower side, and thus the height of the star was determined. According to different heights of the stars, different sized boards could be used. By using Zheng He’s method, the positioning error could be controlled within 4.5 nautical miles, which was far superior to the general level at that time (Zhao 2005).

    portions

    Figure 3. Portions of stellar diagrams

    boards

    Figure 4. Star boards

    Menzies (2003) describes quite clearly astro-navigation of the fleet. The fleet used Polaris in the northern hemisphere. But when they were in Indian Ocean, and altered course to the southwest, southern Africa. Polaris, the Chinese guiding star, would have sunk closer and closer to the horizon and become invisible at 3°40¢N, north of Mogadishu in Somalia. Until they found another guiding star in the southern hemisphere to fulfil the same purpose as Polaris in the north, they were sailing into the unknown. The Chinese needed a star in the southern hemisphere to replace Polaris in the northern, and in the event they selected two: Canopus for latitude and the Southern Cross for navigation, they would have to sail far into the icy waters of the Deep South to locate the stars. To use Canopus for latitude, the Chinese had to determine its precise position by sailing to a point directly underneath the star. The Southern Cross points to the South Pole, but unlike Polaris, it is not directly above the Pole. To be able to use the Southern Cross for accurate navigation, the Chinese also had to locate its position in the sky – its height and longitude. Once again, the only way to calculate the precise position of the Southern Cross was to sail to a position directly beneath it. Menzies believes that only when Canopus and the Southern Cross had been located could new lands in the southern hemisphere be accurately placed on charts. When they reached Mount Adams in the West Falklands, the Chinese cartographers were nearly underneath Canopus. They were taking such pains to fix their position so that they could calculate their precise latitude: 52°40¢S. By cross-referencing Canopus to Polaris they could establish Canopus’s height and then use that star to obtain their latitude anywhere in the southern oceans.
    –~~~~~~~~~~~~–
    3.3 Nautical charts
    Zheng He Hanghai Tu (Zheng He’s Nautical Charts) provides comprehensive records of Zheng He’s western voyages. The original chart is a long scroll called “Chart of the course taken by the treasure ship from its start at Longjing to the destinations of foreign lands”. That is one of the achievements of Zheng He in his western sea voyages and also the earliest international chart in the world (Information Office of Fujian Province 2005).

    zheng

    Figure 5. Zheng He’s Nautical Chart

    The charts utilize traditional Chinese landscape painting techniques to portray features such as mountains, islands, bridges, temples, and cities in detailed perspective. Figure 5 illustrates a portion of the chart. These graphic representations enabled the navigators to more easily identify important geographical features from shipboard. The charts include over 530 place names, including over thirty Asian and African countries and regions. Over fifty separate routes are delineated. Navigational data inscribed along the routes, such as compass headings and time notations.

    Zheng He’s nautical charts are of great both historical and practical value. These charts fully reflect the high level of navigational expertise of the time, and indicate that China’s maritime technology had essentially been perfected. It has been proposed that when Columbus, da Gama, Magellan and Cook later made the “discoveries’, they were carrying copies of the Chinese maps with then when they set off on their own journeys into the “unknown” (Menzies 2003).

    3.4 Course and speed measuring

    Compass was the main means used by Zheng He in his epic ocean voyages. The compass was used to fix the direction and “geng” which recorded by Chinese era is used to measure distance.

    The compass used in the treasure ship was a kind of “wet compass”, that is a needle floating in water contained in a circular box with the compass points carved on wooden rim. On the compass there are 24 scales. Each scale, marked by different Chinese characters, represents a direction. The characters provided a way to mark the direction course route lines on the charts. The ship may follow one particular scale mark or follow a point between two scales.

    compass

    Figure 6. Magnetic compass

    Figure 6 shows the magnetic compass used by Zheng He’s fleet. The lower part of the figure is a replica of the compass and the upper shows the bearing correspondents of the Chinese character marks. Figure 7 shows a simple form of a “wet compass” (Xin Yuan-ou 2003).

    megniticcopas

    Figure 7. Simple form of “wet compass”

    Zheng He’s fleet used hourglass to measure the distances it covered. It was an instrument for measuring time by the trickling of sand through small opening from one glass bulb to another below it in fixed period of time, usually a “geng” (Information Office of Fujian Province 2005). “Geng” is a time recording unit, representing one of the five two-hour periods of a night, but here it refers to a unit of distance. Usually one “geng” was 60 li, about 30 kilometers. When taking the measure, they threw a wooden plank into the sea and then walked to the rear of the ship at a certain fixed speed to gauge the ship’s speed. Then route and distance were calculated and drawn on a map. That is what we see as the navigation chart, a precious material for studying Zheng He’s western ocean voyages.

    By using compass and the “geng”, navigators would know the position of the ship in the vast seas.

    There’s a lot more in that link, so check it out (btw, I don’t buy everything in that link, especially all that Chinese “amicability” talk – because Zheng He did engage in “armed diplomacy” in SE Asia, but the sections on the technology are interesting and illuminating).

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  • @JSM
    Yes, at the Natrona County airport, down the road a bit, there's, indeed, a museum made of the only building left standing from the old Army Airforce base. And you are correct, it is the old rec hall. Interesting place to visit: Not only are the belongings of many of the WWII veterans who lived in Wyoming or were stationed at the base displayed there, and the curator can tell you their stories, but also, on the walls is a mural of Wyoming's history.
    See, most of those guys would only be at the air base a few weeks, so the mural was commissioned to provide a quick history lesson. These guys, being fighter pilots in training, and therefore high testosterone, were known to fire their weapons into the walls while drunk. Those bullet holes have been preserved.

    These guys, being fighter pilots in training, and therefore high testosterone, were known to fire their weapons into the walls while drunk. Those bullet holes have been preserved.

    It’s not just high testosterone, a lot of pilots have small man complexes, because, well, they are generally short by selection (cockpits are not comfy for tall men).

    I have a very good friend who was an Air Force combat pilot during Vietnam, and back in those days, pilots were apparently like celebrity bachelors loosed upon the Playboy Mansion. It was routine for some pilots to whore and drink all night and crawl into their cockpits early in the morning and get oxygen through their masks to get sober.

    Then again, in the past, people used to die during Red Flag exercises all the time. The Air Force took training very seriously back then and took casualties as the cost of tough and realistic training.

    Those days are LONG GONE. If someone gets hurt or, God forbid, die during training, heads will roll up and down. Regulations are MUCH more strictly enforced. I have a cousin who is a Navy pilot who flew missions in Iraq, and even though he was highly decorated for both valor and performance, he was censured for carrying a personal weapon instead of the issued sidearm (normally that’s not much of an issue in an active combat zone, but some REMF ratted him out and insist on making the transgression official).

    There is a lot of “perfumed princes” in the upper echelon of the military now who never saw real combat unlike many junior officers who have been at war for a decade or so now. Many such young combat leaders have left the military in the last several years because of the conflict they had with the REMF bosses who didn’t know jack about real war but loved ordering men around like they did.

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  • @Director
    Good god almighty, it's an invasion. You are oblivious or disingenuous.

    Good god almighty, it’s an invasion. You are oblivious or disingenuous.

    What is “it” in that declaration?

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  • @Director
    Von Braun was a German. The founding stock of the US is substantially German. I'd say he wasn't really a racial or cultural outsider. It's like calling British people in the US migrants. You wouldn't notice the difference without the accent.

    Von Braun as you are discussing it is a red herring.

    Chinese nationals are often spies btw. Industrial Espionage is rife.

    Von Braun was a German. The founding stock of the US is substantially German. I’d say he wasn’t really a racial or cultural outsider.

    That’s rather funny since my wife’s grandmother (who was born to German immigrants), when she was a child, was warned not to speak German by her family during the years when Germany was an enemy.

    The founding stock of the U.S. is English. Germans were later arrivals. They assimilated, because the hosts and the hosting elites insisted on it… which is what needs to happen now (as well as dramatically reducing legal immigration and eliminating illegal immigration).

    Even if we enacted an immigration moratorium as JSM wanted, we still have to assimilate those who are already here rather than have them become pawns of the multiculturalists.

    Chinese nationals are often spies btw. Industrial Espionage is rife.

    Industrial espionage IS indeed rife. But if you knew anything about it, you’d be more careful on Air France front cabins and in Paris hotels hosting defense industry conferences than worrying about most Chinese nationals who are not spies (most Chinese visitors are here to tour and shop, shop, shop). Of course, there ARE spies among Chinese nationals and even some among purported immigrants, and China is a very serious concern, so appropriate countermeasures are warranted.

    And, in case you didn’t catch it, I am not keen on immigration from China (or India for that matter, for another reason).

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    • Replies: @Gringo
    The founding stock of the U.S. is English. Germans were later arrivals.

    That depends on how you define "later." One of my German ancestors immigrated to New York in the 1640s. He had initially fled to the Netherlands for religious freedoms not then available in his homeland. Then to America. Of my German ancestors, all came to the US before the American Revolution- several of whom fought in the Revolution.
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  • @iffen
    It just seems to me that in one instance you are attributing multiple factors, including genetics, and in the other you withdraw all variables except the “people”.

    It just seems to me that in one instance you are attributing multiple factors, including genetics, and in the other you withdraw all variables except the “people”.

    Context, please.

    Note I was contrasting “economics” vs. “people,” in other words falsifying the notion of economics as the primary causal variable in crime rates, by comparing ghetto blacks with even poorer Appalachian whites who have considerably lower violent crime rates than the former.

    Economics is what I called earlier “a minor variable.” Things like income are manifestations of the interplay of genes, environment, and culture rather than major causal factors as the latter three.

    And when I say “people” I don’t just mean “race.” I mean a group of people who are products of a particular place (and time) and culture who in turn create and shape that place and culture.

    To put simply, race is very important, but it’s not everything. I, as Mr. Sailer seemingly does, attribute outcomes to some combination of nature and nurture (he often uses the “fifty-fifty” line as a rough estimate, and I don’t think that’s a bad starting point).

    There are some folks on these pages who are “nature only.” I am not one of them. In real life and in the scientific community, the debate is between the dominant environmentarians who attribute everything or almost everything to nurture and the insurgent hereditarians who attribute nature as a component, meaning nature + nurture.

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    • Replies: @iffen
    I agree. Poverty does not cause criminal behavior.
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  • Genotypic intelligence (ability to develop logical, abstract and systematic thinking, notice how this works for all human activities, such as building a house, brick by brick) does not seem to be more important than the phenotype. Incidentally, I do not know what their concepts for both. Contextual or phenotypic intelligence (my concept for this type) does not seem to be very interesting if a significant percentage of intelligent people fail to make logical deductions of phenomena that are happening before their faces, not to mention that they just specialized for this task (according to its most consistent psychological-cognitive profiles).

    Many smart people really look like ”civilized” alphas und betas of Brave New World in many important cognitive aspects (deficits).

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  • Correlacionei= correlationate

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  • @Jim
    Western and Japanese psychometricians studying the Japanese population get essentially identical results despite the considerable cultural differences between Japan and the West.

    Actually in any concrete case phenotypic intelligence is what is important in "real life" not genotypic intelligence. For example if the phenotypic inelligence of a population is depressed below it's potential genotypic level by say iodine deficiency it is the phenotypic inelligence that actually determines what happens in that population.

    I don't disagree that empathy is desirable but complaining about IQ tests because they don't measure empathy is like complaining about a thermometer because it doesn't measure humidity.

    I think you did not understand. Select people only by their high scores on IQ tests, are blind tests, because they are not measuring other traits that are very desirable for the welfare of society and is exactly what is happening today. I do not correlacionei iq tests and empathy directly, but indirectly, just to explain the postulate above I wrote.

    Plus I believe in cognitive diversity, cognitive division (specific) work and especially with regard to macro-decision-making positions, that is, in politics, economy … in short, the organization of society, the worst people are selected or select themselves, because of the weaknesses of complex social systems, where that one group of nerds can believe that the correlation between high technical and quantitative intelligence and empathy is large enough to mechanically mitigate any risk, but reality shows us that the situation is very different.

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  • Jim says:
    @Santoculto
    Cognitive tests were designed to measure the concept of intelligence of those who built them.

    And are morally blind tests, which is very important. Note that all the problems that are affecting the West, are precisely caused by this blindness.

    Cognitive tests measure the IQ bureaucrat. Real cognitive tests should measure people's strengths in real time. This is to measure genotypic intelligence, which in the end, is what matters most.

    If there was a real meritocracy, we would not have people who have no empathy in charge of nations.

    Western and Japanese psychometricians studying the Japanese population get essentially identical results despite the considerable cultural differences between Japan and the West.

    Actually in any concrete case phenotypic intelligence is what is important in “real life” not genotypic intelligence. For example if the phenotypic inelligence of a population is depressed below it’s potential genotypic level by say iodine deficiency it is the phenotypic inelligence that actually determines what happens in that population.

    I don’t disagree that empathy is desirable but complaining about IQ tests because they don’t measure empathy is like complaining about a thermometer because it doesn’t measure humidity.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Santoculto
    I think you did not understand. Select people only by their high scores on IQ tests, are blind tests, because they are not measuring other traits that are very desirable for the welfare of society and is exactly what is happening today. I do not correlacionei iq tests and empathy directly, but indirectly, just to explain the postulate above I wrote.

    Plus I believe in cognitive diversity, cognitive division (specific) work and especially with regard to macro-decision-making positions, that is, in politics, economy ... in short, the organization of society, the worst people are selected or select themselves, because of the weaknesses of complex social systems, where that one group of nerds can believe that the correlation between high technical and quantitative intelligence and empathy is large enough to mechanically mitigate any risk, but reality shows us that the situation is very different.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • JSM says:
    @The most deplorable one

    Chuck Yeager, you know, The Right Stuff guy, born on a farm in West Virginia, spent part of his flight training for 363rd Fighter Squadron at the Army Air Force base in Casper during WWII.
     
    Is that the one that is the current Casper Airport?

    I've been in what I think was the Officer's Recreation Hall or something from that period.

    Yes, at the Natrona County airport, down the road a bit, there’s, indeed, a museum made of the only building left standing from the old Army Airforce base. And you are correct, it is the old rec hall. Interesting place to visit: Not only are the belongings of many of the WWII veterans who lived in Wyoming or were stationed at the base displayed there, and the curator can tell you their stories, but also, on the walls is a mural of Wyoming’s history.
    See, most of those guys would only be at the air base a few weeks, so the mural was commissioned to provide a quick history lesson. These guys, being fighter pilots in training, and therefore high testosterone, were known to fire their weapons into the walls while drunk. Those bullet holes have been preserved.

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    • Replies: @Twinkie

    These guys, being fighter pilots in training, and therefore high testosterone, were known to fire their weapons into the walls while drunk. Those bullet holes have been preserved.
     
    It's not just high testosterone, a lot of pilots have small man complexes, because, well, they are generally short by selection (cockpits are not comfy for tall men).

    I have a very good friend who was an Air Force combat pilot during Vietnam, and back in those days, pilots were apparently like celebrity bachelors loosed upon the Playboy Mansion. It was routine for some pilots to whore and drink all night and crawl into their cockpits early in the morning and get oxygen through their masks to get sober.

    Then again, in the past, people used to die during Red Flag exercises all the time. The Air Force took training very seriously back then and took casualties as the cost of tough and realistic training.

    Those days are LONG GONE. If someone gets hurt or, God forbid, die during training, heads will roll up and down. Regulations are MUCH more strictly enforced. I have a cousin who is a Navy pilot who flew missions in Iraq, and even though he was highly decorated for both valor and performance, he was censured for carrying a personal weapon instead of the issued sidearm (normally that's not much of an issue in an active combat zone, but some REMF ratted him out and insist on making the transgression official).

    There is a lot of "perfumed princes" in the upper echelon of the military now who never saw real combat unlike many junior officers who have been at war for a decade or so now. Many such young combat leaders have left the military in the last several years because of the conflict they had with the REMF bosses who didn't know jack about real war but loved ordering men around like they did.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Twinkie

    This model is rapidly disappearing; and is being replaced by a “salad bowl” model.
     
    True enough, to some extent. I think it's more the case of our elites not insisting on assimilation and lauding multiculturalism instead. Immigrants still do assimilate, I think - it's just that now they are assimilating the destructive native elite sentiments.

    It's often said that East Asians (especially the Chinese and the Indians) are the "New Jews." They aren't the New Jews - they have their own cultural traditions and idiosyncracies. It's just that they are learning to assimilate (and become elites) from Jewish-American elites.

    Asian immigrants who are heavily Christian, especially Protestant Koreans and Catholic Vietnamese, tend to be more resistant to the Jewish model of assimilation due to the obvious religious reasons (and Koreans also tend to be strongly drawn to the more masculine, gun-toting, military traditions of America*), but their children will, by and large, also adopt the dominant elite ethos soon enough in the current climate.

    *Gene Yu, a Taiwanese-American former Green Beret officer who attended West Point, said that about 90% of Asians at West Point during his years were Korean-Americans, and that the hardcore military culture of Korean-Americans was a big culture shock to an ethnic Chinese kid who grew up in the "far more mellow," "tennis-playing" Chinese culture of Cupertino. He recalled somewhat fondly how his roommate his plebe year, a Korean-American from NY, just punched him once, broke his glasses, and laid him flat out when he tried to bully the normally quiet and shy Korean-American cadet verbally over some silly argument.

    Yu has some funny stories about being stationed later in South Korea as well as catching a hellacious Korean C-130 flight from Irbil in Iraq. He talks about how after all that combat in Iraq, it was a mad Korean pilot who made him wish he were dead.

    Good god almighty, it’s an invasion. You are oblivious or disingenuous.

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    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Good god almighty, it’s an invasion. You are oblivious or disingenuous.
     
    What is "it" in that declaration?
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  • @Twinkie

    Werner Von Braun…cool guy.
     
    Wernher von Braun was not a "cool guy." He was in the SS and he colluded in the use of slave labor under his command. He was also an "involuntary immigrant" to the U.S.

    But he was a man of great genius about rocketry. Although it is impossible to know whether the U.S. would have made all the advances it made in the field without him, the fact (and the history) is that we had him and it aided our aerospace and ballistic missile development tremendously.

    When I say that I'd like to leave some immigrant spots open for the latter-day von Brauns, I mean people of great utility to our country (especially those who want to come here). If some Swedish or Korean computer science genius wants to come to America, become an American, and help us defend cyber-attacks from Red China, I want a spot for him.

    But this is a very *small* number I am talking about here, fewer than, say, 5% of the current *legal* immigration (and as close to zero *illegal* immigration as possible with border security). I don't understand why that view makes me an Enemy of the People in your mind. I think that's 1,000 times better than the situation we have today.

    Von Braun was a German. The founding stock of the US is substantially German. I’d say he wasn’t really a racial or cultural outsider. It’s like calling British people in the US migrants. You wouldn’t notice the difference without the accent.

    Von Braun as you are discussing it is a red herring.

    Chinese nationals are often spies btw. Industrial Espionage is rife.

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    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Von Braun was a German. The founding stock of the US is substantially German. I’d say he wasn’t really a racial or cultural outsider.
     
    That's rather funny since my wife's grandmother (who was born to German immigrants), when she was a child, was warned not to speak German by her family during the years when Germany was an enemy.

    The founding stock of the U.S. is English. Germans were later arrivals. They assimilated, because the hosts and the hosting elites insisted on it... which is what needs to happen now (as well as dramatically reducing legal immigration and eliminating illegal immigration).

    Even if we enacted an immigration moratorium as JSM wanted, we still have to assimilate those who are already here rather than have them become pawns of the multiculturalists.

    Chinese nationals are often spies btw. Industrial Espionage is rife.
     
    Industrial espionage IS indeed rife. But if you knew anything about it, you'd be more careful on Air France front cabins and in Paris hotels hosting defense industry conferences than worrying about most Chinese nationals who are not spies (most Chinese visitors are here to tour and shop, shop, shop). Of course, there ARE spies among Chinese nationals and even some among purported immigrants, and China is a very serious concern, so appropriate countermeasures are warranted.

    And, in case you didn't catch it, I am not keen on immigration from China (or India for that matter, for another reason).
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Twinkie

    I have trouble with the idea that the same person wrote those two statements.
     
    The two statements are perfectly compatible.

    In my view, there is a constant feedback loop among genes, environment, and culture. At any given time, a culture is an expression of a particular set of genes in a particular environment. Likewise, genes, over time, are affected by the existing environment and culture. And so goes the environment, which is shaped by a set of genes acting in concert with behavioral constraints/encouragements of an existing culture. None of it is fixed. And yet in some cases auto-catalytic forces in two or three of these variables could effect a powerful and persistent outcome that resists influence of lesser, more minor variables.

    Why do you engage with ethnocentric commenters?
     
    I've never been the "let the sleeping dogs lie" type of a person. Call it a character flaw.

    It just seems to me that in one instance you are attributing multiple factors, including genetics, and in the other you withdraw all variables except the “people”.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Twinkie

    It just seems to me that in one instance you are attributing multiple factors, including genetics, and in the other you withdraw all variables except the “people”.
     
    Context, please.

    Note I was contrasting "economics" vs. "people," in other words falsifying the notion of economics as the primary causal variable in crime rates, by comparing ghetto blacks with even poorer Appalachian whites who have considerably lower violent crime rates than the former.

    Economics is what I called earlier "a minor variable." Things like income are manifestations of the interplay of genes, environment, and culture rather than major causal factors as the latter three.

    And when I say "people" I don't just mean "race." I mean a group of people who are products of a particular place (and time) and culture who in turn create and shape that place and culture.

    To put simply, race is very important, but it's not everything. I, as Mr. Sailer seemingly does, attribute outcomes to some combination of nature and nurture (he often uses the "fifty-fifty" line as a rough estimate, and I don't think that's a bad starting point).

    There are some folks on these pages who are "nature only." I am not one of them. In real life and in the scientific community, the debate is between the dominant environmentarians who attribute everything or almost everything to nurture and the insurgent hereditarians who attribute nature as a component, meaning nature + nurture.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Twinkie

    You’re telling me who my friends are now? Dude, you really are all-powerful!
     
    I am beginning to think that you are an asocial teenager in your mother's basement.

    A friendship is like having a girlfriend in that it requires the other person's consent. You know a "non-consensual" girlfriend is a hostage, right?

    I do not know who your friends are. But *I* am not one of them. This is a concept that even my youngest child, of grad school age, understands.

    I do not know who your friends are. But *I* am not one of them. This is a concept that even my youngest child, of grad school age, understands.

    No my friend, I’m afraid that’s a bit of an illogical syllogism:

    You are perfectly within your rights to say that “I” am not one of “your” friends, but to do the opposite is, at best, insufferable arrogance.

    One day Chuang-tzu and a friend
    were walking along a riverbank.

    “How delightfully the fishes are
    enjoying themselves in the water!”
    Chuang-tzu exclaimed.

    “You are not a fish,” his friend said.
    “How do you know whether or not
    the fishes are enjoying themselves?”

    “You are not me,” Chuang-tzu said.
    “How do you know that I do not know
    that the fishes are enjoying themselves?”

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  • @Truth

    True enough, to some extent. I think it’s more the case of our elites not insisting on assimilation and lauding multiculturalism instead
     
    .


    Well now, assimilation tends to become a bad idea, when one of your daughters brings home a nice, intelligent, respectfull, Christian...jet black fiance from Ghana, is this not true?

    Well now, assimilation tends to become a bad idea, when one of your daughters brings home a nice, intelligent, respectfull, Christian…jet black fiance from Ghana, is this not true?

    I don’t worry about being hit by lightning, and I don’t play the lottery either.

    But if we are talking about principles, I always taught my children that virtue* matters the most in a human being. Therefore, so long as my children followed that principle, I will continue to support their decisions and choices in life. I have yet to be disappointed (but I do expect some, which is inevitable in life).

    *By virtue I mean it in Aristotelian ethics sense, not some gooey combination of leftist pieties like multiculturalism and “we’re all the same” nonsense.

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  • @Twinkie

    You’re telling me who my friends are now? Dude, you really are all-powerful!
     
    I am beginning to think that you are an asocial teenager in your mother's basement.

    A friendship is like having a girlfriend in that it requires the other person's consent. You know a "non-consensual" girlfriend is a hostage, right?

    I do not know who your friends are. But *I* am not one of them. This is a concept that even my youngest child, of grad school age, understands.

    of grad school age

    Sorry, I meant “of grade school age.” I regret the error.

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  • @Truth
    You're telling me who my friends are now? Dude, you really are all-powerful!

    You’re telling me who my friends are now? Dude, you really are all-powerful!

    I am beginning to think that you are an asocial teenager in your mother’s basement.

    A friendship is like having a girlfriend in that it requires the other person’s consent. You know a “non-consensual” girlfriend is a hostage, right?

    I do not know who your friends are. But *I* am not one of them. This is a concept that even my youngest child, of grad school age, understands.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Twinkie

    of grad school age
     
    Sorry, I meant "of grade school age." I regret the error.
    , @Truth

    I do not know who your friends are. But *I* am not one of them. This is a concept that even my youngest child, of grad school age, understands.
     
    No my friend, I'm afraid that's a bit of an illogical syllogism:

    You are perfectly within your rights to say that "I" am not one of "your" friends, but to do the opposite is, at best, insufferable arrogance.

    One day Chuang-tzu and a friend
    were walking along a riverbank.

    "How delightfully the fishes are
    enjoying themselves in the water!"
    Chuang-tzu exclaimed.

    "You are not a fish," his friend said.
    "How do you know whether or not
    the fishes are enjoying themselves?"

    "You are not me," Chuang-tzu said.
    "How do you know that I do not know
    that the fishes are enjoying themselves?"
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @iffen

    It’s not economics, it’s people.
     

    the reasons for Western European dominance since the 17-18th Centuries are multiple, some possibly genetic, but much of it probably environmental and historical and a part of it even chance.
     
    I have trouble with the idea that the same person wrote those two statements.


    Why do you engage with ethnocentric commenters?

    I have trouble with the idea that the same person wrote those two statements.

    The two statements are perfectly compatible.

    In my view, there is a constant feedback loop among genes, environment, and culture. At any given time, a culture is an expression of a particular set of genes in a particular environment. Likewise, genes, over time, are affected by the existing environment and culture. And so goes the environment, which is shaped by a set of genes acting in concert with behavioral constraints/encouragements of an existing culture. None of it is fixed. And yet in some cases auto-catalytic forces in two or three of these variables could effect a powerful and persistent outcome that resists influence of lesser, more minor variables.

    Why do you engage with ethnocentric commenters?

    I’ve never been the “let the sleeping dogs lie” type of a person. Call it a character flaw.

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    It just seems to me that in one instance you are attributing multiple factors, including genetics, and in the other you withdraw all variables except the “people”.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Twinkie

    This model is rapidly disappearing; and is being replaced by a “salad bowl” model.
     
    True enough, to some extent. I think it's more the case of our elites not insisting on assimilation and lauding multiculturalism instead. Immigrants still do assimilate, I think - it's just that now they are assimilating the destructive native elite sentiments.

    It's often said that East Asians (especially the Chinese and the Indians) are the "New Jews." They aren't the New Jews - they have their own cultural traditions and idiosyncracies. It's just that they are learning to assimilate (and become elites) from Jewish-American elites.

    Asian immigrants who are heavily Christian, especially Protestant Koreans and Catholic Vietnamese, tend to be more resistant to the Jewish model of assimilation due to the obvious religious reasons (and Koreans also tend to be strongly drawn to the more masculine, gun-toting, military traditions of America*), but their children will, by and large, also adopt the dominant elite ethos soon enough in the current climate.

    *Gene Yu, a Taiwanese-American former Green Beret officer who attended West Point, said that about 90% of Asians at West Point during his years were Korean-Americans, and that the hardcore military culture of Korean-Americans was a big culture shock to an ethnic Chinese kid who grew up in the "far more mellow," "tennis-playing" Chinese culture of Cupertino. He recalled somewhat fondly how his roommate his plebe year, a Korean-American from NY, just punched him once, broke his glasses, and laid him flat out when he tried to bully the normally quiet and shy Korean-American cadet verbally over some silly argument.

    Yu has some funny stories about being stationed later in South Korea as well as catching a hellacious Korean C-130 flight from Irbil in Iraq. He talks about how after all that combat in Iraq, it was a mad Korean pilot who made him wish he were dead.

    True enough, to some extent. I think it’s more the case of our elites not insisting on assimilation and lauding multiculturalism instead

    .

    Well now, assimilation tends to become a bad idea, when one of your daughters brings home a nice, intelligent, respectfull, Christian…jet black fiance from Ghana, is this not true?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Well now, assimilation tends to become a bad idea, when one of your daughters brings home a nice, intelligent, respectfull, Christian…jet black fiance from Ghana, is this not true?
     
    I don't worry about being hit by lightning, and I don't play the lottery either.

    But if we are talking about principles, I always taught my children that virtue* matters the most in a human being. Therefore, so long as my children followed that principle, I will continue to support their decisions and choices in life. I have yet to be disappointed (but I do expect some, which is inevitable in life).

    *By virtue I mean it in Aristotelian ethics sense, not some gooey combination of leftist pieties like multiculturalism and "we're all the same" nonsense.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Twinkie

    That, my friend, is the most intellectual thing you have written thusfar.
     
    1. We are not friends.

    2. You lecturing me about "intellectual" matters is akin to a black man "teaching" an East Asian differential equations.

    You’re telling me who my friends are now? Dude, you really are all-powerful!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Twinkie

    You’re telling me who my friends are now? Dude, you really are all-powerful!
     
    I am beginning to think that you are an asocial teenager in your mother's basement.

    A friendship is like having a girlfriend in that it requires the other person's consent. You know a "non-consensual" girlfriend is a hostage, right?

    I do not know who your friends are. But *I* am not one of them. This is a concept that even my youngest child, of grad school age, understands.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @The most deplorable one
    I am not proud of being “Asian.” I did nothing to earn it. It’s just something into which I was born.

    However, perhaps you should be proud that your ancestors removed the trash from your gene pool unlike some other groups. Trash like the low IQ, those with the inability to control their violent impulses and those without any future time orientation. We Europeans did it by hanging and crucifying such people over a span of about 1,800 years ...

    Your ancestors paid the price for your current abilities ... and that is worth remembering.

    Your ancestors paid the price for your current abilities … and that is worth remembering.

    Don’t get me wrong – I am extremely grateful for the genetic lottery I won (or simply for being born in a civilized part of the world). But I am not “proud” about it. To me pride is something I ought to have for things I earned.

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  • @The most deplorable one

    Chuck Yeager, you know, The Right Stuff guy, born on a farm in West Virginia, spent part of his flight training for 363rd Fighter Squadron at the Army Air Force base in Casper during WWII.
     
    Is that the one that is the current Casper Airport?

    I've been in what I think was the Officer's Recreation Hall or something from that period.

    Is that the one that is the current Casper Airport?

    I’ve been in what I think was the Officer’s Recreation Hall or something from that period.

    Side note: for those of you who are aviation buffs, if you are ever in Southern California, pay a visit to the Planes of Fame Air Museum in Chino. There might still be a great bar right outside the museum. That bar is a shrine to the great heroes of American aviation and, if it’s still there, you will run into some fascinating aviation old-timers. And if you talk right to those fellas, they might even take you to the hangars and show you some amazing vintage airplanes.

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  • @iffen
    “all immigrants should be proud of assimilating successfully into the native Anglo-American culture”

    This model is rapidly disappearing; and is being replaced by a “salad bowl” model.

    Of course blacks never assimilated and never will.

    This model is rapidly disappearing; and is being replaced by a “salad bowl” model.

    True enough, to some extent. I think it’s more the case of our elites not insisting on assimilation and lauding multiculturalism instead. Immigrants still do assimilate, I think – it’s just that now they are assimilating the destructive native elite sentiments.

    It’s often said that East Asians (especially the Chinese and the Indians) are the “New Jews.” They aren’t the New Jews – they have their own cultural traditions and idiosyncracies. It’s just that they are learning to assimilate (and become elites) from Jewish-American elites.

    Asian immigrants who are heavily Christian, especially Protestant Koreans and Catholic Vietnamese, tend to be more resistant to the Jewish model of assimilation due to the obvious religious reasons (and Koreans also tend to be strongly drawn to the more masculine, gun-toting, military traditions of America*), but their children will, by and large, also adopt the dominant elite ethos soon enough in the current climate.

    *Gene Yu, a Taiwanese-American former Green Beret officer who attended West Point, said that about 90% of Asians at West Point during his years were Korean-Americans, and that the hardcore military culture of Korean-Americans was a big culture shock to an ethnic Chinese kid who grew up in the “far more mellow,” “tennis-playing” Chinese culture of Cupertino. He recalled somewhat fondly how his roommate his plebe year, a Korean-American from NY, just punched him once, broke his glasses, and laid him flat out when he tried to bully the normally quiet and shy Korean-American cadet verbally over some silly argument.

    Yu has some funny stories about being stationed later in South Korea as well as catching a hellacious Korean C-130 flight from Irbil in Iraq. He talks about how after all that combat in Iraq, it was a mad Korean pilot who made him wish he were dead.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Truth

    True enough, to some extent. I think it’s more the case of our elites not insisting on assimilation and lauding multiculturalism instead
     
    .


    Well now, assimilation tends to become a bad idea, when one of your daughters brings home a nice, intelligent, respectfull, Christian...jet black fiance from Ghana, is this not true?
    , @Director
    Good god almighty, it's an invasion. You are oblivious or disingenuous.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @jsm
    Werner Von Braun...cool guy.
    Nonetheless, we don't need 'em.
    I am in Wyoming. I know of a guy who worked in Mission Control during Apollo era. In fact, he's the guy who plotted the new trajectory when Apollo 13 blew up, that got the astronauts home. This guy grew up in Casper, went to high school at Natrona County High School, college at University of Wyoming and got hired because his own best friend was down at NASA and recommended him to be hired, and they worked together during that era, and together during that very event.

    With that kind of talent in our own native guys from humble beginnings, we White Americans don't need ANY immigration 'tall. What we need is for the anti-White male stuff to stop.

    Other examples: Homer Hickam (wrote Rocket Boys, also a movie was made about him and his buds from West Virginia called October Sky). Also, Storey Musgrave -- grew up on a dairy farm fixing tractors, flew all 5 space shuttles, fixed Hubble, holds multiple advanced degrees, including trauma surgery which he did part-time on weekends during his astronaut training, is now a Disney imagineer, has seven kids... first guy to retire from NASA. What else? There's so much, I've forgotten. Oh, yeah, comes to Casper to speak to the elementary age kiddoes.

    Chuck Yeager, you know, The Right Stuff guy, born on a farm in West Virginia, spent part of his flight training for 363rd Fighter Squadron at the Army Air Force base in Casper during WWII.

    Werner Von Braun…cool guy.

    Wernher von Braun was not a “cool guy.” He was in the SS and he colluded in the use of slave labor under his command. He was also an “involuntary immigrant” to the U.S.

    But he was a man of great genius about rocketry. Although it is impossible to know whether the U.S. would have made all the advances it made in the field without him, the fact (and the history) is that we had him and it aided our aerospace and ballistic missile development tremendously.

    When I say that I’d like to leave some immigrant spots open for the latter-day von Brauns, I mean people of great utility to our country (especially those who want to come here). If some Swedish or Korean computer science genius wants to come to America, become an American, and help us defend cyber-attacks from Red China, I want a spot for him.

    But this is a very *small* number I am talking about here, fewer than, say, 5% of the current *legal* immigration (and as close to zero *illegal* immigration as possible with border security). I don’t understand why that view makes me an Enemy of the People in your mind. I think that’s 1,000 times better than the situation we have today.

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    • Replies: @Director
    Von Braun was a German. The founding stock of the US is substantially German. I'd say he wasn't really a racial or cultural outsider. It's like calling British people in the US migrants. You wouldn't notice the difference without the accent.

    Von Braun as you are discussing it is a red herring.

    Chinese nationals are often spies btw. Industrial Espionage is rife.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Truth
    "I am not proud of being “Asian.” I did nothing to earn it. It’s just something into which I was born."

    That, my friend, is the most intellectual thing you have written thusfar.

    That, my friend, is the most intellectual thing you have written thusfar.

    1. We are not friends.

    2. You lecturing me about “intellectual” matters is akin to a black man “teaching” an East Asian differential equations.

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    • Replies: @Truth
    You're telling me who my friends are now? Dude, you really are all-powerful!
    , @Santoculto
    Lol, so rude... zombie!!
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  • […] On the SAT’s. […]

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  • The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"] says:
    @Gringo
    83. Forbes
    The history of the SATs is one of revision and re-centering scores (seemingly about once a decade). In the ’60s there would have been not much more than a handful of 800 scores nationwide. Now, it appears that many of the top large high schools have one per class.

    That does not agree with my high school class in the '60s, with about 170 graduates. One guy got 800 in SAT-Math, and two got 800 in SAT-Verbal. Off the top of my head I can think of 9 who got 750 or above on the Math SAT. Yes, this was a bubble of sort: while 2% nationwide got Merit Scholarship Letters of Commendation or Finalist categories, 10% of my high school class did.
    From The Journal of Blacks in Higher Education:

    In 2005, 153,132 African Americans took the SAT test........

    If we raise the top-scoring threshold to students scoring 750 or above on both the math and verbal SAT — a level equal to the mean score of students entering the nation's most selective colleges such as Harvard, Princeton, and CalTech — we find that in the entire country 244 blacks scored 750 or above on the math SAT and 363 black students scored 750 or above on the verbal portion of the test. Nationwide, 33,841 students scored at least 750 on the math test and 30,479 scored at least 750 on the verbal SAT. Therefore, black students made up 0.7 percent of the test takers who scored 750 or above on the math test and 1.2 percent of all test takers who scored 750 or above on the verbal section.

     
    From a high school class of 170, 9 or so scored 750 above the SAT-Math, compared four decades later with 244 Blacks out of 150,000 nation wide. Don't know what that means, but it doesn't sound good.

    BTW, I came from a time when one didn't study for the SAT. I took the GRE twice in the three decades after high school, and for what it's worth, scored higher than on the SAT. Without much study.

    But as someone with high SAT scores, my take on it is that while they may help, anything worth achieving will occur only with a lot of work- blood sweat and tears, as it were. Your work ethic and persistence is much more important than your SAT score. At the same time, I doubt that many STEM professionals have SAT-Math scores of below 500- SAT counts for something.

    Your work ethic and persistence is much more important than your SAT score.

    Well, that depends. I know a teacher who has some black and Mexican students who have a strong work ethic but are too dumb to understand the material (Geometry and above).

    It is a waste for those students to try to complete high school and go to college. They should be out there getting trained in motor vehicle repair, carpentry, plumbing etc where they can make a very good living with the work ethic they have.

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  • The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"] says:
    @Anon

    Your ancestors paid the price for your current abilities … and that is worth remembering.
     
    Not his ancestors. Or anybody's (currently living), for that matter. Those individuals exited the gene pool when they were killed.

    Not his ancestors. Or anybody’s (currently living), for that matter. Those individuals exited the gene pool when they were killed.

    His ancestors likely killed those who are no longer in the gene pool, as did mine.

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  • The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"] says:
    @Twinkie

    First, it appears the shape of the curve is different for whites versus East Asians. While East Asians are somewhat smarter on average, there are more whites at the extreme ends per capita.
     
    This is oft repeated among white nationalist/supremacist circles, but never substantiated. Steve Hsu (who is linked on Mr. Sailer's blog roll) investigated this in 2008: http://infoproc.blogspot.com/2008/06/asian-white-iq-variance-from-pisa.html

    He found that the standard deviation for northeast Asians was close (95) to that of the OECD (90), and was actually a bit higher, meaning there are slightly *more* East Asians at the extreme ends per capita than among Europeans. Indeed, Finns (!) actually exhibited the curvier SD at 80 (meaning more people in the middle than at the edges).

    So we will have to look to another explanation.

    Second, whites seem more likely to be mavericks. It was whites who got on sailing ships to explore and map the world (and later the moon).
     
    I think this might contribute a bit to the answer. Northeast Asians seem to have greater social conformity, lower sociability, and greater risk-aversion than the European average (but they are pretty close to the Nordics who also exhibit similar traits), likely due to both genetic and cultural reasons.

    But it isn't as if NE Asians didn't engage in explorations in sailing ships. The eunuch admiral Cheng Ho of China famously led seven epic voyages in huge ships with tens of thousands of men to India, the Middle East, and East Africa long before Europeans ventured into the high seas.

    I think the reasons for Western European dominance since the 17-18th Centuries are multiple, some possibly genetic, but much of it probably environmental and historical and a part of it even chance. And as can be seen from the rise and fall of various dominant Eurasian civilizations, it was neither preordained nor destined to be the case forever.

    I think the reasons for Western European dominance since the 17-18th Centuries are multiple, some possibly genetic, but much of it probably environmental and historical and a part of it even chance. And as can be seen from the rise and fall of various dominant Eurasian civilizations, it was neither preordained nor destined to be the case forever.

    Nick Szabo suggests that it starts further back than that:

    http://unenumerated.blogspot.com/2014/10/transportation-divergence-and.html

    http://unenumerated.blogspot.com/2013/11/european-asian-divergence-predates.html

    He has some other stuff at that site including a very interesting posting on Dead Reckoning and the Exploration Explosion and the Italian use of the compass and sand glass to navigate reliably long distances by sea:

    http://unenumerated.blogspot.com/2012/10/dead-reckoning-and-exploration-explosion.html

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    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Nick Szabo suggests that it starts further back than that:
     
    Of course, the Western European dominance of the last three hundred years or so did not just arise out of thin air. There were pre-conditions that made that dominance possible.

    But I would argue that the growing power imbalance between Western Europe and, say, China was also, in part, due to the relative decline of the latter during those centuries. Just as the Europeans were venturing into the Indian Ocean and the Pacific, the Chinese retreated from them due to their own domestic reasons.

    the Italian use of the compass and sand glass to navigate reliably long distances by sea:
     
    He has some interesting speculations and theories, but he is wrong about the Chinese maritime technologies of the period immediately preceding the European explosion into the high seas. To wit: http://mycoordinates.org/zheng-he%E2%80%99s-sailing-to-west-ocean/all/1/

    3 THE TECHNOLOGY

    Various advanced technologies of the time were employed by Zheng He and his fleet to make the great feat. He successfully inherited the practice of former navigators in Chinese history and assimilated their ocean-going knowledge. He selected excellent sailors, made thorough preparations and built various types of seaworthy ships equipped with well-designed devices such as stabilization boards, watertight compartments, precise compass, and star boards. Based on the knowledge of his predecessors and the sea-going practice of his own, he prepared scientific navigation charts, which are of great value in history. He inherited and innovated the Chinese tradition of navigation through celestial observation. By inventing the technique of star board measurement for determining the height of celestial bodies and thus positioning, he elevated the navigation technology to a new level. He also had studied the general patterns of monsoon in the in the Chinese sea area, Indian Ocean and Arabian Sea and made effective use of these studies in his trip. The following subsections are contributed to part of the technologies employed by Zheng He and his fleet.

    3.1 Ship building

    China has a long history of building ships. The general design featured vertical sails, with neither horizontal sails nor fastening ropes. The sails were usually made of cloth or woven by bamboo chips stiffened by bamboo poles for wind-efficiency. With centuries of experience in building ship to sail storm-tossed oceans, the Chinese marine engineers had evolved a robust frame built in sections. Each section was contained by watertight bulkheads at either end, resembling the internal partitions of a bamboo. The watertight sections were bolted together with brass pins weighing several kilograms. Three layers of hardwood were nailed to a teak frame, and then the planks were caulked (made waterproof) with coir (coconut fibre) and sealed with a mixture of boiled tung-tree oil and lime. This hard, waterproof lacquer had been used to seal Chinese ocean-going ships since the seventh century, but so much tung-tree oil was required to build Zheng He’s treasure fleets that acres of land along the Yangtze banks were acquired to plant orchards of tung trees.

    Marine engineers at the Longjiang shipyards designed their ships to survive the fiercest storms on the open ocean. Reinforced bows enabled the vessel to smash through the waves, and at either side of the bow were channels leading to internal compartments. As the square bow pitched in heavy seas, water was funnelled in; as the bow surfaced above the waves, the water drained out, modifying the pitching motion. A teak keel bound together by iron hoops ran the length of the ship, and specially cut, large rectangular stones – or composite stone and mud balls – were packed around it for ballast. Additional keels that could be raised and lowered were fitted at either side for more stability. In a storm, semi-submersible sea anchors could also be thrown overboard to reduce rolling. Even in the roughest weather and sea conditions, pitching and rolling were greatly reduced by these ingenious modifications. With the sophisticated technologies China was able to build largest ship of the world at the time. Some record noted the treasure ship is as large as 132m in length and 54m of width. Figure 2 compares the treasure ship to Columbus’s St. Maria.

    ship

    The giant ship could survive typhoons and the sectional construction reduced the risk of sinking in case of a collision with a reef or an iceberg. They were designed to remain afloat even if two compartments were flooded after being punctured by coral or ice. To increase cargo capacity, the hulls of the junks were very wide compared with their length and they were float-bottomed. Their sails were balanced lugs, four-sided sails hanging from a yardarm set at an oblique angle – the characteristic sail of China. They were stiffened by a series of bamboo battens, so the design was extremely efficient when sailing before the wind. It also allowed the sails to be reefed, or lowered, quickly in an emergency.
    A story tells that Zheng He’s flagship was once holed on a reef but its triple hull and watertight compartments enabled him to reach Malacca without sinking, according to some legend.
    It is also proposed that we can envisage the development of modern shipping industry by comparing that of Zheng He’s time. Shipbuilding at the time had shown the characteristics of large size, high speed and specialization (Yang & Jin 2005).

    –~~~~~~~~~~~~–
    3.2 Celestial fixing

    Zheng He developed a whole set of navigation technology by looking at stars. Accompanying Zheng He’s nautical chart, there were four stellar diagrams. Figure 3 shows portions of two of them. Those diagrams passed on by Zheng He have not only enabled us to recapture the stars observed by navigators but also revealed the secrets of ancient navigation.

    Zheng He was able to determine his latitude by measuring the height of Polaris to the north and Southern Cross to the south. Twelve star boards (Fig.4) were used depending on the different height of the stars. The size of the largest board is around 24 cm by 24 cm (12 fingers as it was termed at the time, using the size of human thumb) and the smallest, 2 cm by 2 cm (1 finger), with 2 cm difference in succession (Zhao 2005). By using the attached thread, around 60 cm in length, the observer was able to fix the distance from the eye to the board, thus fix the angle of observation of the board, about 1.9° per finger. When observing the celestial bodies, the observer aligned the star on the upper side of the board and the horizon to the lower side, and thus the height of the star was determined. According to different heights of the stars, different sized boards could be used. By using Zheng He’s method, the positioning error could be controlled within 4.5 nautical miles, which was far superior to the general level at that time (Zhao 2005).

    portions

    Figure 3. Portions of stellar diagrams

    boards

    Figure 4. Star boards

    Menzies (2003) describes quite clearly astro-navigation of the fleet. The fleet used Polaris in the northern hemisphere. But when they were in Indian Ocean, and altered course to the southwest, southern Africa. Polaris, the Chinese guiding star, would have sunk closer and closer to the horizon and become invisible at 3°40¢N, north of Mogadishu in Somalia. Until they found another guiding star in the southern hemisphere to fulfil the same purpose as Polaris in the north, they were sailing into the unknown. The Chinese needed a star in the southern hemisphere to replace Polaris in the northern, and in the event they selected two: Canopus for latitude and the Southern Cross for navigation, they would have to sail far into the icy waters of the Deep South to locate the stars. To use Canopus for latitude, the Chinese had to determine its precise position by sailing to a point directly underneath the star. The Southern Cross points to the South Pole, but unlike Polaris, it is not directly above the Pole. To be able to use the Southern Cross for accurate navigation, the Chinese also had to locate its position in the sky – its height and longitude. Once again, the only way to calculate the precise position of the Southern Cross was to sail to a position directly beneath it. Menzies believes that only when Canopus and the Southern Cross had been located could new lands in the southern hemisphere be accurately placed on charts. When they reached Mount Adams in the West Falklands, the Chinese cartographers were nearly underneath Canopus. They were taking such pains to fix their position so that they could calculate their precise latitude: 52°40¢S. By cross-referencing Canopus to Polaris they could establish Canopus’s height and then use that star to obtain their latitude anywhere in the southern oceans.
    –~~~~~~~~~~~~–
    3.3 Nautical charts
    Zheng He Hanghai Tu (Zheng He’s Nautical Charts) provides comprehensive records of Zheng He’s western voyages. The original chart is a long scroll called “Chart of the course taken by the treasure ship from its start at Longjing to the destinations of foreign lands”. That is one of the achievements of Zheng He in his western sea voyages and also the earliest international chart in the world (Information Office of Fujian Province 2005).

    zheng

    Figure 5. Zheng He’s Nautical Chart

    The charts utilize traditional Chinese landscape painting techniques to portray features such as mountains, islands, bridges, temples, and cities in detailed perspective. Figure 5 illustrates a portion of the chart. These graphic representations enabled the navigators to more easily identify important geographical features from shipboard. The charts include over 530 place names, including over thirty Asian and African countries and regions. Over fifty separate routes are delineated. Navigational data inscribed along the routes, such as compass headings and time notations.

    Zheng He’s nautical charts are of great both historical and practical value. These charts fully reflect the high level of navigational expertise of the time, and indicate that China’s maritime technology had essentially been perfected. It has been proposed that when Columbus, da Gama, Magellan and Cook later made the “discoveries’, they were carrying copies of the Chinese maps with then when they set off on their own journeys into the “unknown” (Menzies 2003).

    3.4 Course and speed measuring

    Compass was the main means used by Zheng He in his epic ocean voyages. The compass was used to fix the direction and “geng” which recorded by Chinese era is used to measure distance.

    The compass used in the treasure ship was a kind of “wet compass”, that is a needle floating in water contained in a circular box with the compass points carved on wooden rim. On the compass there are 24 scales. Each scale, marked by different Chinese characters, represents a direction. The characters provided a way to mark the direction course route lines on the charts. The ship may follow one particular scale mark or follow a point between two scales.

    compass

    Figure 6. Magnetic compass

    Figure 6 shows the magnetic compass used by Zheng He’s fleet. The lower part of the figure is a replica of the compass and the upper shows the bearing correspondents of the Chinese character marks. Figure 7 shows a simple form of a “wet compass” (Xin Yuan-ou 2003).

    megniticcopas

    Figure 7. Simple form of “wet compass”

    Zheng He’s fleet used hourglass to measure the distances it covered. It was an instrument for measuring time by the trickling of sand through small opening from one glass bulb to another below it in fixed period of time, usually a “geng” (Information Office of Fujian Province 2005). “Geng” is a time recording unit, representing one of the five two-hour periods of a night, but here it refers to a unit of distance. Usually one “geng” was 60 li, about 30 kilometers. When taking the measure, they threw a wooden plank into the sea and then walked to the rear of the ship at a certain fixed speed to gauge the ship’s speed. Then route and distance were calculated and drawn on a map. That is what we see as the navigation chart, a precious material for studying Zheng He’s western ocean voyages.

    By using compass and the “geng”, navigators would know the position of the ship in the vast seas.
     
    There's a lot more in that link, so check it out (btw, I don't buy everything in that link, especially all that Chinese "amicability" talk - because Zheng He did engage in "armed diplomacy" in SE Asia, but the sections on the technology are interesting and illuminating).
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  • @The most deplorable one
    I am not proud of being “Asian.” I did nothing to earn it. It’s just something into which I was born.

    However, perhaps you should be proud that your ancestors removed the trash from your gene pool unlike some other groups. Trash like the low IQ, those with the inability to control their violent impulses and those without any future time orientation. We Europeans did it by hanging and crucifying such people over a span of about 1,800 years ...

    Your ancestors paid the price for your current abilities ... and that is worth remembering.

    Your ancestors paid the price for your current abilities … and that is worth remembering.

    Not his ancestors. Or anybody’s (currently living), for that matter. Those individuals exited the gene pool when they were killed.

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    • Replies: @The most deplorable one

    Not his ancestors. Or anybody’s (currently living), for that matter. Those individuals exited the gene pool when they were killed.
     
    His ancestors likely killed those who are no longer in the gene pool, as did mine.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Forbes
    The history of the SATs is one of revision and re-centering scores (seemingly about once a decade). In the '60s there would have been not much more than a handful of 800 scores nationwide. Now, it appears that many of the top large high schools have one per class.

    Also, the concept of grade inflation didn't exist, so SATs were used as confirmation about the validity of grades and class rank of the applicant, and so lacked the high-pressure scoring atmosphere of the last couple decades, i.e. the rise of test prep programs.

    83. Forbes
    The history of the SATs is one of revision and re-centering scores (seemingly about once a decade). In the ’60s there would have been not much more than a handful of 800 scores nationwide. Now, it appears that many of the top large high schools have one per class.

    That does not agree with my high school class in the ’60s, with about 170 graduates. One guy got 800 in SAT-Math, and two got 800 in SAT-Verbal. Off the top of my head I can think of 9 who got 750 or above on the Math SAT. Yes, this was a bubble of sort: while 2% nationwide got Merit Scholarship Letters of Commendation or Finalist categories, 10% of my high school class did.
    From The Journal of Blacks in Higher Education:

    In 2005, 153,132 African Americans took the SAT test……..

    If we raise the top-scoring threshold to students scoring 750 or above on both the math and verbal SAT — a level equal to the mean score of students entering the nation’s most selective colleges such as Harvard, Princeton, and CalTech — we find that in the entire country 244 blacks scored 750 or above on the math SAT and 363 black students scored 750 or above on the verbal portion of the test. Nationwide, 33,841 students scored at least 750 on the math test and 30,479 scored at least 750 on the verbal SAT. Therefore, black students made up 0.7 percent of the test takers who scored 750 or above on the math test and 1.2 percent of all test takers who scored 750 or above on the verbal section.

    From a high school class of 170, 9 or so scored 750 above the SAT-Math, compared four decades later with 244 Blacks out of 150,000 nation wide. Don’t know what that means, but it doesn’t sound good.

    BTW, I came from a time when one didn’t study for the SAT. I took the GRE twice in the three decades after high school, and for what it’s worth, scored higher than on the SAT. Without much study.

    But as someone with high SAT scores, my take on it is that while they may help, anything worth achieving will occur only with a lot of work- blood sweat and tears, as it were. Your work ethic and persistence is much more important than your SAT score. At the same time, I doubt that many STEM professionals have SAT-Math scores of below 500- SAT counts for something.

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    • Replies: @The most deplorable one

    Your work ethic and persistence is much more important than your SAT score.
     
    Well, that depends. I know a teacher who has some black and Mexican students who have a strong work ethic but are too dumb to understand the material (Geometry and above).

    It is a waste for those students to try to complete high school and go to college. They should be out there getting trained in motor vehicle repair, carpentry, plumbing etc where they can make a very good living with the work ethic they have.
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  • It’s not economics, it’s people.

    the reasons for Western European dominance since the 17-18th Centuries are multiple, some possibly genetic, but much of it probably environmental and historical and a part of it even chance.

    I have trouble with the idea that the same person wrote those two statements.

    Why do you engage with ethnocentric commenters?

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    • Replies: @Twinkie

    I have trouble with the idea that the same person wrote those two statements.
     
    The two statements are perfectly compatible.

    In my view, there is a constant feedback loop among genes, environment, and culture. At any given time, a culture is an expression of a particular set of genes in a particular environment. Likewise, genes, over time, are affected by the existing environment and culture. And so goes the environment, which is shaped by a set of genes acting in concert with behavioral constraints/encouragements of an existing culture. None of it is fixed. And yet in some cases auto-catalytic forces in two or three of these variables could effect a powerful and persistent outcome that resists influence of lesser, more minor variables.

    Why do you engage with ethnocentric commenters?
     
    I've never been the "let the sleeping dogs lie" type of a person. Call it a character flaw.
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  • The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"] says:
    @Twinkie

    That’s the best compliment he’s had in weeks!

    Just kidding, Twinkie seems somewhat proud, in an odd way, of being Asian.
     
    I am not proud of being "Asian." I did nothing to earn it. It's just something into which I was born.

    I am proud of my wife for the kind of person she is. I am proud of my children for how good they are. And I am proud of being an American, because I believe the United States is the best, the greatest country ever in human existence, and I am deeply grateful for being allowed to be a citizen of this great Republic.

    As for "acting white," all immigrants should be proud of assimilating successfully into the native Angl0-American culture of this great nation. I am a bit like Russell Peters' dad: https://youtu.be/55OmE1L2sug

    I am not proud of being “Asian.” I did nothing to earn it. It’s just something into which I was born.

    However, perhaps you should be proud that your ancestors removed the trash from your gene pool unlike some other groups. Trash like the low IQ, those with the inability to control their violent impulses and those without any future time orientation. We Europeans did it by hanging and crucifying such people over a span of about 1,800 years …

    Your ancestors paid the price for your current abilities … and that is worth remembering.

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    • Replies: @Anon

    Your ancestors paid the price for your current abilities … and that is worth remembering.
     
    Not his ancestors. Or anybody's (currently living), for that matter. Those individuals exited the gene pool when they were killed.
    , @Twinkie

    Your ancestors paid the price for your current abilities … and that is worth remembering.
     
    Don't get me wrong - I am extremely grateful for the genetic lottery I won (or simply for being born in a civilized part of the world). But I am not "proud" about it. To me pride is something I ought to have for things I earned.
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  • The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"] says:
    @jsm
    Werner Von Braun...cool guy.
    Nonetheless, we don't need 'em.
    I am in Wyoming. I know of a guy who worked in Mission Control during Apollo era. In fact, he's the guy who plotted the new trajectory when Apollo 13 blew up, that got the astronauts home. This guy grew up in Casper, went to high school at Natrona County High School, college at University of Wyoming and got hired because his own best friend was down at NASA and recommended him to be hired, and they worked together during that era, and together during that very event.

    With that kind of talent in our own native guys from humble beginnings, we White Americans don't need ANY immigration 'tall. What we need is for the anti-White male stuff to stop.

    Other examples: Homer Hickam (wrote Rocket Boys, also a movie was made about him and his buds from West Virginia called October Sky). Also, Storey Musgrave -- grew up on a dairy farm fixing tractors, flew all 5 space shuttles, fixed Hubble, holds multiple advanced degrees, including trauma surgery which he did part-time on weekends during his astronaut training, is now a Disney imagineer, has seven kids... first guy to retire from NASA. What else? There's so much, I've forgotten. Oh, yeah, comes to Casper to speak to the elementary age kiddoes.

    Chuck Yeager, you know, The Right Stuff guy, born on a farm in West Virginia, spent part of his flight training for 363rd Fighter Squadron at the Army Air Force base in Casper during WWII.

    Chuck Yeager, you know, The Right Stuff guy, born on a farm in West Virginia, spent part of his flight training for 363rd Fighter Squadron at the Army Air Force base in Casper during WWII.

    Is that the one that is the current Casper Airport?

    I’ve been in what I think was the Officer’s Recreation Hall or something from that period.

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    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Is that the one that is the current Casper Airport?

    I’ve been in what I think was the Officer’s Recreation Hall or something from that period.
     
    Side note: for those of you who are aviation buffs, if you are ever in Southern California, pay a visit to the Planes of Fame Air Museum in Chino. There might still be a great bar right outside the museum. That bar is a shrine to the great heroes of American aviation and, if it's still there, you will run into some fascinating aviation old-timers. And if you talk right to those fellas, they might even take you to the hangars and show you some amazing vintage airplanes.
    , @JSM
    Yes, at the Natrona County airport, down the road a bit, there's, indeed, a museum made of the only building left standing from the old Army Airforce base. And you are correct, it is the old rec hall. Interesting place to visit: Not only are the belongings of many of the WWII veterans who lived in Wyoming or were stationed at the base displayed there, and the curator can tell you their stories, but also, on the walls is a mural of Wyoming's history.
    See, most of those guys would only be at the air base a few weeks, so the mural was commissioned to provide a quick history lesson. These guys, being fighter pilots in training, and therefore high testosterone, were known to fire their weapons into the walls while drunk. Those bullet holes have been preserved.
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  • @Twinkie

    That’s the best compliment he’s had in weeks!

    Just kidding, Twinkie seems somewhat proud, in an odd way, of being Asian.
     
    I am not proud of being "Asian." I did nothing to earn it. It's just something into which I was born.

    I am proud of my wife for the kind of person she is. I am proud of my children for how good they are. And I am proud of being an American, because I believe the United States is the best, the greatest country ever in human existence, and I am deeply grateful for being allowed to be a citizen of this great Republic.

    As for "acting white," all immigrants should be proud of assimilating successfully into the native Angl0-American culture of this great nation. I am a bit like Russell Peters' dad: https://youtu.be/55OmE1L2sug

    “all immigrants should be proud of assimilating successfully into the native Anglo-American culture”

    This model is rapidly disappearing; and is being replaced by a “salad bowl” model.

    Of course blacks never assimilated and never will.

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    • Replies: @Twinkie

    This model is rapidly disappearing; and is being replaced by a “salad bowl” model.
     
    True enough, to some extent. I think it's more the case of our elites not insisting on assimilation and lauding multiculturalism instead. Immigrants still do assimilate, I think - it's just that now they are assimilating the destructive native elite sentiments.

    It's often said that East Asians (especially the Chinese and the Indians) are the "New Jews." They aren't the New Jews - they have their own cultural traditions and idiosyncracies. It's just that they are learning to assimilate (and become elites) from Jewish-American elites.

    Asian immigrants who are heavily Christian, especially Protestant Koreans and Catholic Vietnamese, tend to be more resistant to the Jewish model of assimilation due to the obvious religious reasons (and Koreans also tend to be strongly drawn to the more masculine, gun-toting, military traditions of America*), but their children will, by and large, also adopt the dominant elite ethos soon enough in the current climate.

    *Gene Yu, a Taiwanese-American former Green Beret officer who attended West Point, said that about 90% of Asians at West Point during his years were Korean-Americans, and that the hardcore military culture of Korean-Americans was a big culture shock to an ethnic Chinese kid who grew up in the "far more mellow," "tennis-playing" Chinese culture of Cupertino. He recalled somewhat fondly how his roommate his plebe year, a Korean-American from NY, just punched him once, broke his glasses, and laid him flat out when he tried to bully the normally quiet and shy Korean-American cadet verbally over some silly argument.

    Yu has some funny stories about being stationed later in South Korea as well as catching a hellacious Korean C-130 flight from Irbil in Iraq. He talks about how after all that combat in Iraq, it was a mad Korean pilot who made him wish he were dead.
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  • @Twinkie

    To which I reply, right back atcha: I don’t know who made that kind of an unintelligent argument, but that wasn’t me.
     
    In another thread, I believe you wrote something to the effect of "Hispanic immigration is a problem, but the real problem is the Asians!" You seem to be prioritizing preventing Asian immigration over Hispanic one.

    IMMIGRATION MORATORIUM NOW!
     
    While I'd like to leave a small number of immigration slots open (say 1-5% of the current *legal* immigration level) for the latter-day Wernher von Brauns of the world who want to be Americans (meaning, highly skills-based), I'd prefer a total immigration moratorium over just about any other policy recommendation, including the status quo.

    I believe you know I hold this position, and I also believe you are intelligent enough to know that that's a far "harder" line position than what immigration policy position the vast majority of even whites hold in this country.

    I am courteous enough to address most and, usually, all of your wild assertions. Yet because you are unhealthily obsessed about my marrying a white woman, you drive by-froth at me at every opportunity.

    So, JSM, is Kate Beckinsale not white enough for you?

    Werner Von Braun…cool guy.
    Nonetheless, we don’t need ‘em.
    I am in Wyoming. I know of a guy who worked in Mission Control during Apollo era. In fact, he’s the guy who plotted the new trajectory when Apollo 13 blew up, that got the astronauts home. This guy grew up in Casper, went to high school at Natrona County High School, college at University of Wyoming and got hired because his own best friend was down at NASA and recommended him to be hired, and they worked together during that era, and together during that very event.

    With that kind of talent in our own native guys from humble beginnings, we White Americans don’t need ANY immigration ‘tall. What we need is for the anti-White male stuff to stop.

    Other examples: Homer Hickam (wrote Rocket Boys, also a movie was made about him and his buds from West Virginia called October Sky). Also, Storey Musgrave — grew up on a dairy farm fixing tractors, flew all 5 space shuttles, fixed Hubble, holds multiple advanced degrees, including trauma surgery which he did part-time on weekends during his astronaut training, is now a Disney imagineer, has seven kids… first guy to retire from NASA. What else? There’s so much, I’ve forgotten. Oh, yeah, comes to Casper to speak to the elementary age kiddoes.

    Chuck Yeager, you know, The Right Stuff guy, born on a farm in West Virginia, spent part of his flight training for 363rd Fighter Squadron at the Army Air Force base in Casper during WWII.

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    • Replies: @The most deplorable one

    Chuck Yeager, you know, The Right Stuff guy, born on a farm in West Virginia, spent part of his flight training for 363rd Fighter Squadron at the Army Air Force base in Casper during WWII.
     
    Is that the one that is the current Casper Airport?

    I've been in what I think was the Officer's Recreation Hall or something from that period.
    , @Twinkie

    Werner Von Braun…cool guy.
     
    Wernher von Braun was not a "cool guy." He was in the SS and he colluded in the use of slave labor under his command. He was also an "involuntary immigrant" to the U.S.

    But he was a man of great genius about rocketry. Although it is impossible to know whether the U.S. would have made all the advances it made in the field without him, the fact (and the history) is that we had him and it aided our aerospace and ballistic missile development tremendously.

    When I say that I'd like to leave some immigrant spots open for the latter-day von Brauns, I mean people of great utility to our country (especially those who want to come here). If some Swedish or Korean computer science genius wants to come to America, become an American, and help us defend cyber-attacks from Red China, I want a spot for him.

    But this is a very *small* number I am talking about here, fewer than, say, 5% of the current *legal* immigration (and as close to zero *illegal* immigration as possible with border security). I don't understand why that view makes me an Enemy of the People in your mind. I think that's 1,000 times better than the situation we have today.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • “I am not proud of being “Asian.” I did nothing to earn it. It’s just something into which I was born.”

    That, my friend, is the most intellectual thing you have written thusfar.

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    • Replies: @Twinkie

    That, my friend, is the most intellectual thing you have written thusfar.
     
    1. We are not friends.

    2. You lecturing me about "intellectual" matters is akin to a black man "teaching" an East Asian differential equations.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Twinkie

    You’re using a left-wing, lib-urr-uhl birdcage liner, as the arbiter of truth to temporarilly support your point now?
     
    I quote major newspapers all the time, including NY Times and WaPo. They do, you know, carry the news. Their editorials are completely batty and they try very hard to pick and choose news items that support their agenda, but they can't completely hide the facts, especially when there is something to be outraged about such as the de facto segregation of blacks from non-blacks.

    If you don't believe the phenomenon of the de facto segregation (both voluntary and economic-social) of blacks from non-blacks, take a look at the raw data yourself:

    http://www.coopercenter.org/demographics/Racial-Dot-Map

    but in reality, you are an arrogant, deceptive, and manipulative prick., and there is something to be said about those Asian skills imitation!
     
    This is why I usually avoid discussion with black people in real life. Many (not all, but many), even so-called educated, blacks are incapable of arguing rationally about socio-economic-political issues that are "sensitive" to them. Soon enough, they get angry, hurl insults, and even become physically aggressive. Such "black intellectuals" were at the vanguard of "activist" assaults and vandalism at my Ivy League alma mater. If some poor soul had the temerity to point out some fact "insulting" to blacks in a student newspaper, there went the newspaper building and the newspapers (building vandalized, newspapers burnt).

    May I finally extend an official and heartfelt welcome to the kingdom of the Unzistas.
     
    Yeah, Unz Review is like civilization. A black man apparently built it but whitey (Messrs. Unz and Sailer) stole it.

    “Yeah, Unz Review is like civilization. A black man apparently built it but whitey (Messrs. Unz and Sailer) stole it.”

    That’s actually cute.

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  • @Truth

    Twink, I didn’t know that you were not of the white persuasion.
     
    That's the best compliment he's had in weeks!

    Just kidding, Twinkie seems somewhat proud, in an odd way, of being Asian.

    That’s the best compliment he’s had in weeks!

    Just kidding, Twinkie seems somewhat proud, in an odd way, of being Asian.

    I am not proud of being “Asian.” I did nothing to earn it. It’s just something into which I was born.

    I am proud of my wife for the kind of person she is. I am proud of my children for how good they are. And I am proud of being an American, because I believe the United States is the best, the greatest country ever in human existence, and I am deeply grateful for being allowed to be a citizen of this great Republic.

    As for “acting white,” all immigrants should be proud of assimilating successfully into the native Angl0-American culture of this great nation. I am a bit like Russell Peters’ dad:

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    “all immigrants should be proud of assimilating successfully into the native Anglo-American culture”

    This model is rapidly disappearing; and is being replaced by a “salad bowl” model.

    Of course blacks never assimilated and never will.
    , @The most deplorable one
    I am not proud of being “Asian.” I did nothing to earn it. It’s just something into which I was born.

    However, perhaps you should be proud that your ancestors removed the trash from your gene pool unlike some other groups. Trash like the low IQ, those with the inability to control their violent impulses and those without any future time orientation. We Europeans did it by hanging and crucifying such people over a span of about 1,800 years ...

    Your ancestors paid the price for your current abilities ... and that is worth remembering.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @iffen

    the crux is
     
    Tell us what's on your mind, Truth.

    teaching the backwoods, Applachian, walking to their tin shacks barefoot, children, English, no matter how much money you make or how many American flags you put up in the front yard.
     
    It ain't the color of your skin; it's the color of your brain.

    Since there is no co-pay for birth control under Obamacare, while hookworm medication requires a co-pay, I say that my folks (people to poor to afford shoes, or too stupid to wear them) are discriminated against as opposed to people who don't understand that f***ing causes babies.

    Twink, I didn't know that you were not of the white persuasion.

    Since there is no co-pay for birth control under Obamacare, while hookworm medication requires a co-pay, I say that my folks (people to poor to afford shoes, or too stupid to wear them) are discriminated against as opposed to people who don’t understand that f***ing causes babies.

    My family and I live in a very isolated patch of Appalachia part of the year. We love our neighbors there (they are good, honorable, and kind Christian people and fantastic neighbors). You know what’s interesting about Appalachia? Parts of it are *poorer* than black ghettos, I mean really dirt poor, yet have only a small fraction of the violent crime of the latter.

    It’s not economics, it’s people.

    Twink, I didn’t know that you were not of the white persuasion.

    I am ethnically East Asian. My wife is white from the rural-exurban Midwest, so our children are half-white. We raised our kids in the South (and spent a lot time in their mother’s home town, too, of course), so they are extremely proud and prickly Southerners.

    It’s kinda funny, I guess, but my kids can talk with that Tidewater accent pretty well:

    It’s little bit like living with little Henry Cho’s:

    (Except my kids have Tidewater accent and Cho has that East Tennessee accent: http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/tennessee-nuclear-lab-cancels-lose-your-southern-accent-class-n168071).

    When we moved up north to Yankee-occupied South I was a bit concerned about them being ostracized, because they kinda talked “funny” and grew up shooting and hunting, but their new friends really dug their accents. Now they can turn it on and off on a dime. Pretty cool, I think.

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  • @Truth
    You're using a left-wing, lib-urr-uhl birdcage liner, as the arbiter of truth to temporarilly support your point now? In direct opposition to just about everything you've said about what you belive in, before? There's only one thing I can say about that...


    My N-! You catch on quick!!!

    I didn't think you were going to make it, because you seem like such a "nice" guy, but in reality, you are an arrogant, deceptive, and manipulative prick., and there is something to be said about those Asian skills imitation!

    May I finally extend an official and heartfelt welcome to the kingdom of the Unzistas. I couldn't have done it better myself.

    You’re using a left-wing, lib-urr-uhl birdcage liner, as the arbiter of truth to temporarilly support your point now?

    I quote major newspapers all the time, including NY Times and WaPo. They do, you know, carry the news. Their editorials are completely batty and they try very hard to pick and choose news items that support their agenda, but they can’t completely hide the facts, especially when there is something to be outraged about such as the de facto segregation of blacks from non-blacks.

    If you don’t believe the phenomenon of the de facto segregation (both voluntary and economic-social) of blacks from non-blacks, take a look at the raw data yourself:

    http://www.coopercenter.org/demographics/Racial-Dot-Map

    but in reality, you are an arrogant, deceptive, and manipulative prick., and there is something to be said about those Asian skills imitation!

    This is why I usually avoid discussion with black people in real life. Many (not all, but many), even so-called educated, blacks are incapable of arguing rationally about socio-economic-political issues that are “sensitive” to them. Soon enough, they get angry, hurl insults, and even become physically aggressive. Such “black intellectuals” were at the vanguard of “activist” assaults and vandalism at my Ivy League alma mater. If some poor soul had the temerity to point out some fact “insulting” to blacks in a student newspaper, there went the newspaper building and the newspapers (building vandalized, newspapers burnt).

    May I finally extend an official and heartfelt welcome to the kingdom of the Unzistas.

    Yeah, Unz Review is like civilization. A black man apparently built it but whitey (Messrs. Unz and Sailer) stole it.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Truth
    "Yeah, Unz Review is like civilization. A black man apparently built it but whitey (Messrs. Unz and Sailer) stole it."

    That's actually cute.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @JSM
    Twinkie said in reply to something I said:

    "I don’t know who made that kind of an unintelligent argument, but that wasn’t me."


    Then Twinkie said:

    "Keep at it while the country becomes 30-40% Hispanic/Mestizo in the next few decades. But, hey, they’re just brown “white” people who don’t “cheat,” so life will be just peachy for American folks, right?"

    To which I reply, right back atcha: I don’t know who made that kind of an unintelligent argument, but that wasn’t me.

    IMMIGRATION MORATORIUM NOW!

    To which I reply, right back atcha: I don’t know who made that kind of an unintelligent argument, but that wasn’t me.

    In another thread, I believe you wrote something to the effect of “Hispanic immigration is a problem, but the real problem is the Asians!” You seem to be prioritizing preventing Asian immigration over Hispanic one.

    IMMIGRATION MORATORIUM NOW!

    While I’d like to leave a small number of immigration slots open (say 1-5% of the current *legal* immigration level) for the latter-day Wernher von Brauns of the world who want to be Americans (meaning, highly skills-based), I’d prefer a total immigration moratorium over just about any other policy recommendation, including the status quo.

    I believe you know I hold this position, and I also believe you are intelligent enough to know that that’s a far “harder” line position than what immigration policy position the vast majority of even whites hold in this country.

    I am courteous enough to address most and, usually, all of your wild assertions. Yet because you are unhealthily obsessed about my marrying a white woman, you drive by-froth at me at every opportunity.

    So, JSM, is Kate Beckinsale not white enough for you?

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    • Replies: @jsm
    Werner Von Braun...cool guy.
    Nonetheless, we don't need 'em.
    I am in Wyoming. I know of a guy who worked in Mission Control during Apollo era. In fact, he's the guy who plotted the new trajectory when Apollo 13 blew up, that got the astronauts home. This guy grew up in Casper, went to high school at Natrona County High School, college at University of Wyoming and got hired because his own best friend was down at NASA and recommended him to be hired, and they worked together during that era, and together during that very event.

    With that kind of talent in our own native guys from humble beginnings, we White Americans don't need ANY immigration 'tall. What we need is for the anti-White male stuff to stop.

    Other examples: Homer Hickam (wrote Rocket Boys, also a movie was made about him and his buds from West Virginia called October Sky). Also, Storey Musgrave -- grew up on a dairy farm fixing tractors, flew all 5 space shuttles, fixed Hubble, holds multiple advanced degrees, including trauma surgery which he did part-time on weekends during his astronaut training, is now a Disney imagineer, has seven kids... first guy to retire from NASA. What else? There's so much, I've forgotten. Oh, yeah, comes to Casper to speak to the elementary age kiddoes.

    Chuck Yeager, you know, The Right Stuff guy, born on a farm in West Virginia, spent part of his flight training for 363rd Fighter Squadron at the Army Air Force base in Casper during WWII.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @iffen

    the crux is
     
    Tell us what's on your mind, Truth.

    teaching the backwoods, Applachian, walking to their tin shacks barefoot, children, English, no matter how much money you make or how many American flags you put up in the front yard.
     
    It ain't the color of your skin; it's the color of your brain.

    Since there is no co-pay for birth control under Obamacare, while hookworm medication requires a co-pay, I say that my folks (people to poor to afford shoes, or too stupid to wear them) are discriminated against as opposed to people who don't understand that f***ing causes babies.

    Twink, I didn't know that you were not of the white persuasion.

    Twink, I didn’t know that you were not of the white persuasion.

    That’s the best compliment he’s had in weeks!

    Just kidding, Twinkie seems somewhat proud, in an odd way, of being Asian.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Twinkie

    That’s the best compliment he’s had in weeks!

    Just kidding, Twinkie seems somewhat proud, in an odd way, of being Asian.
     
    I am not proud of being "Asian." I did nothing to earn it. It's just something into which I was born.

    I am proud of my wife for the kind of person she is. I am proud of my children for how good they are. And I am proud of being an American, because I believe the United States is the best, the greatest country ever in human existence, and I am deeply grateful for being allowed to be a citizen of this great Republic.

    As for "acting white," all immigrants should be proud of assimilating successfully into the native Angl0-American culture of this great nation. I am a bit like Russell Peters' dad: https://youtu.be/55OmE1L2sug
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Abe Humbles
    There seems to be a bell curve relationshjp between IQ and executive functioning, one I have seen often in the military and business. As one moves up the IQ scale, effectiveness and leadership increase until somewhere around IQ=125, at which point it declines rapidly as you move higher. It is frequently remarked upon among military psychologists. This may be due to higher tendencies among intelligent people toward introspection, or greater curiosity or greater tendency among high-IQ folks to observe and explore than to decide and effect.

    Assuming that the multiple traits that are required for good executive function (working memory, attention, initiative etc. ) are somewhat independent of each other and IQ , AND that the incidence of these traits are normally distributed on the curve like IQ, hitting on all of them at 90th percentile or higher would be exceedingly rare.

    This is why so few people are suitable to be law partners or investment bankers.

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    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • the crux is

    Tell us what’s on your mind, Truth.

    teaching the backwoods, Applachian, walking to their tin shacks barefoot, children, English, no matter how much money you make or how many American flags you put up in the front yard.

    It ain’t the color of your skin; it’s the color of your brain.

    Since there is no co-pay for birth control under Obamacare, while hookworm medication requires a co-pay, I say that my folks (people to poor to afford shoes, or too stupid to wear them) are discriminated against as opposed to people who don’t understand that f***ing causes babies.

    Twink, I didn’t know that you were not of the white persuasion.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Truth

    Twink, I didn’t know that you were not of the white persuasion.
     
    That's the best compliment he's had in weeks!

    Just kidding, Twinkie seems somewhat proud, in an odd way, of being Asian.
    , @Twinkie

    Since there is no co-pay for birth control under Obamacare, while hookworm medication requires a co-pay, I say that my folks (people to poor to afford shoes, or too stupid to wear them) are discriminated against as opposed to people who don’t understand that f***ing causes babies.
     
    My family and I live in a very isolated patch of Appalachia part of the year. We love our neighbors there (they are good, honorable, and kind Christian people and fantastic neighbors). You know what's interesting about Appalachia? Parts of it are *poorer* than black ghettos, I mean really dirt poor, yet have only a small fraction of the violent crime of the latter.

    It's not economics, it's people.

    Twink, I didn’t know that you were not of the white persuasion.
     
    I am ethnically East Asian. My wife is white from the rural-exurban Midwest, so our children are half-white. We raised our kids in the South (and spent a lot time in their mother's home town, too, of course), so they are extremely proud and prickly Southerners.

    It's kinda funny, I guess, but my kids can talk with that Tidewater accent pretty well: https://youtu.be/1RzVKCWXrRA

    It's little bit like living with little Henry Cho's: https://youtu.be/0Ca1ozykhJI
    (Except my kids have Tidewater accent and Cho has that East Tennessee accent: http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/tennessee-nuclear-lab-cancels-lose-your-southern-accent-class-n168071).

    When we moved up north to Yankee-occupied South I was a bit concerned about them being ostracized, because they kinda talked "funny" and grew up shooting and hunting, but their new friends really dug their accents. Now they can turn it on and off on a dime. Pretty cool, I think.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @george
    heavily gay - since you brought up the effect on IQ and privilege of a couple having an only child, how about taking your reasoning to the limit, no children.

    The “no children” didn’t take the test, because they do not exist.

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  • @SPMoore8
    There seems to be a lot of assumptions about High IQ = High Education = High Income as thought it is a matter of course.

    This is not how I have seen it played out, especially for women and especially for women in previous eras. High IQ can translate to high levels of education, but also only with the caveat that people who are highly intelligent are much more prone to be introspective, and thus socially awkward, and thus likely to suffer from all kinds of pathologies. Furthermore, high education doesn't necessarily lead to high income, and I don't even have in mind the Ph.D.'s who are still living at home.

    Among other things, I worked in the financial sector for decades, and most of my peers and superiors were totally into their work, 24/7 as the saying goes. All of them were extremely bright, 1% easily, but they were not necessarily well educated (as a humanist might use the term) and had no outside intellectual interests. Sometimes that would be due to the fact that they were trying to put their families first, or they were seeking status (second generation immigrants are hungry people), or security via money, or what have you. However the net effect was always the same: they made a lot of money, but rarely used their minds for any interests outside of making money. Not the life for many people.

    There seems to be a bell curve relationshjp between IQ and executive functioning, one I have seen often in the military and business. As one moves up the IQ scale, effectiveness and leadership increase until somewhere around IQ=125, at which point it declines rapidly as you move higher. It is frequently remarked upon among military psychologists. This may be due to higher tendencies among intelligent people toward introspection, or greater curiosity or greater tendency among high-IQ folks to observe and explore than to decide and effect.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Muse
    Assuming that the multiple traits that are required for good executive function (working memory, attention, initiative etc. ) are somewhat independent of each other and IQ , AND that the incidence of these traits are normally distributed on the curve like IQ, hitting on all of them at 90th percentile or higher would be exceedingly rare.

    This is why so few people are suitable to be law partners or investment bankers.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D
    I find that somewhat hard to believe. Almost every high school has at least one guidance counselor. Test prep books have been around forever. No one I knew in my rural NJ HS in the '70s took a test prep course - I don't think such a thing even existed in that area at that time. But, I remember getting a Barron's SAT book with practice SAT's. These large paperback volumes have been around forever.

    When it came time for my kids to take the test, I got them the official test prep volume which is now published by the College Board, which consists of 10 previously administered real SATs. If you are bright and take several (or preferably all) of these practice tests under timed conditions and learn from your mistakes, you will do about as well as your education and intelligence will allow you to do without having to take one of those courses.

    Haha that shows what you know. I visited my “counselor” in my senior year in my huge (2100+ student) high school (early 1970′s) for my two minute appointment, and she said “…oh, you should go to college… here you need to take this SAT test.” And when I asked what preparation was needed she said “Um… it says on this paper.. get a good night’s sleep, eat a good breakfast and bring two number 2 pencils to the test.”

    So I did that. That test had all kinds of question formats that I thought were interesting, and had never seen before. I spent a lot of time being curious about the test and some of the reading was interesting. Anyway, I filled in lots of the circles on the answer sheet.

    After the test, we were asked to fill out a questionnaire that asked questions like “How would you compare yourself to other students in math? Are you above average, average or below average?” I thought about it and decided “Average” since I certainly knew kids who were better and some who were worse. I answered the rest of the questions the same way.

    So, a couple of months later, I’m back for another 2 minute counseling session, and she looks at my stuff and then looks at me and says “Can you tell me why you think you’re “Average” in Math and English and so on, when you scored in the 99th percentile on the SAT?”

    I thought for a second and then laughed. All of my friends were the National Merit scholars and so forth. Sampling bias.

    When I told my friends that I didn’t study for the SAT, they looked at me like I was crazy and said “Of course you study for the SAT.” It turns out that their parents were professors and lawyers and doctors.

    My parents, OTOH, were alcoholics who sometimes had to crawl up the stairs at night to get into bed.

    So, there you go. I guess the joke’s on me after all.

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  • You’re using a left-wing, lib-urr-uhl birdcage liner, as the arbiter of truth to temporarilly support your point now? In direct opposition to just about everything you’ve said about what you belive in, before? There’s only one thing I can say about that…

    My N-! You catch on quick!!!

    I didn’t think you were going to make it, because you seem like such a “nice” guy, but in reality, you are an arrogant, deceptive, and manipulative prick., and there is something to be said about those Asian skills imitation!

    May I finally extend an official and heartfelt welcome to the kingdom of the Unzistas. I couldn’t have done it better myself.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Twinkie

    You’re using a left-wing, lib-urr-uhl birdcage liner, as the arbiter of truth to temporarilly support your point now?
     
    I quote major newspapers all the time, including NY Times and WaPo. They do, you know, carry the news. Their editorials are completely batty and they try very hard to pick and choose news items that support their agenda, but they can't completely hide the facts, especially when there is something to be outraged about such as the de facto segregation of blacks from non-blacks.

    If you don't believe the phenomenon of the de facto segregation (both voluntary and economic-social) of blacks from non-blacks, take a look at the raw data yourself:

    http://www.coopercenter.org/demographics/Racial-Dot-Map

    but in reality, you are an arrogant, deceptive, and manipulative prick., and there is something to be said about those Asian skills imitation!
     
    This is why I usually avoid discussion with black people in real life. Many (not all, but many), even so-called educated, blacks are incapable of arguing rationally about socio-economic-political issues that are "sensitive" to them. Soon enough, they get angry, hurl insults, and even become physically aggressive. Such "black intellectuals" were at the vanguard of "activist" assaults and vandalism at my Ivy League alma mater. If some poor soul had the temerity to point out some fact "insulting" to blacks in a student newspaper, there went the newspaper building and the newspapers (building vandalized, newspapers burnt).

    May I finally extend an official and heartfelt welcome to the kingdom of the Unzistas.
     
    Yeah, Unz Review is like civilization. A black man apparently built it but whitey (Messrs. Unz and Sailer) stole it.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Truth
    "Ah, now I see the crux of the matter. Do you have children who are having trouble finding mates or something?"

    Uh, If I may be so forward as to interject, I think I have to go with J-Sim on this one.

    No Twinx, the crux is that this is a WHITE NATIONALIST establishment, as in WHITE NATION. I've never heard of a white and yellow nationalist (until you came aboard, but, ey, to each his own.) As an American, she has the right to her opinion, as do you, Vladimir.

    Therefore, no matter how much time you spend teaching the backwoods, Applachian, walking to their tin shacks barefoot, children, English, no matter how much money you make or how many American flags you put up in the front yard. No matter how obsequious and fawning you are, and no matter how much you insist that you have a large cock, you are an interloper, your wife is a race traitor, and your kids are mongrels to a certain percentage of the white population, and a larger percentage of the Unzistas.

    Now, they will temporarily back of of this stance when I walk into the room with my white wife, but the moment I leave BOOM! right between your two, single epicanthic folds.

    OK, now that gag reflex you're experiencing for the first time after 40-some odd years, Mr. Anderson, that nasty aftertaste, keep in mind; that's just the purple pill.

    "This is what a 7/8 white, 1/8 Asian person looks like:"

    And this is what a half-black half-white person looks like:

    http://www.arogundade.com/is-actress-jennifer-beals-black-or-biracial-her-ethnicity-race-nationality-and-parents.html

    Her parents are shown below. Yep, eventually, the "undesirable" bleaches out.

    Hate...Playa...Game...

    No Twinx, the crux is that this is a WHITE NATIONALIST establishment

    You are going to have do define “this” to make any kind of sense here.

    I wouldn’t be surprised by this kind of a reaction on Stormfront or Amren (though there seem to be quite a few Amren commenters who do not harbor hostility toward white-Asian pairings, and may be in such relationships themselves). But the last time I checked iSteve is a “citizenist” blog.

    your kids are mongrels to a certain percentage of the white population, and a larger percentage of the Unzistas.

    Who knows what the demographics of “Unzistas” are. I don’t think you know. We have *some* sense of what the commenters are like, but in that regard, we are talking of a very small minority of a very small minority of a very small minority of white Americans. And even amongst that tiny number, I only see a handful of folks who seem bent out of shape about white-Asian pairings.

    Most folks here seem to be citizenists to me. Certainly the vast majority of whites I know well enough in real life are assimilationists.

    As an American, she has the right to her opinion, as do you, Vladimir.

    What’s with the feigned moral outrage? Of course she has right to her opinion, whatever the quality of that opinion. Who suggested otherwise? It’s her God-given right as an American to hold whatever views she likes and it is my God-given right as an American to tell her where I think she is wrong. I don’t see why you are acting like some sort of a unique champion of such rights here.

    But I do take some amusement at the interesting temporary alliance of convenience between a frothing at the mouth white nationalist (“stole” “white woman”) and a black “Gentle Giant” apologist.

    “This is what a 7/8 white, 1/8 Asian person looks like:”

    And this is what a half-black half-white person looks like:

    I don’t think this is a contest, but objectively-speaking I think Kate Beckinsale looks far more NW European than Jennifer Beals does (perhaps because Beckinsale IS far more NW European genetically than Beals). So I don’t quite get what your point is.

    This is an issue of intermarriage and assimilation. East Asians tend to do so with whites. Blacks do not, something even the NY Times “worried” about as early as 1998: http://www.nytimes.com/1998/08/16/magazine/the-beige-and-the-black.html

    Thus, the old duality between whites and nonwhites is finally breaking down. But don’t cheer just yet. For what seems to be emerging in the United States is a new dichotomy between blacks and nonblacks. Increasingly, whites, Asians and Hispanics are creating a broad community from which black Americans may be excluded.

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  • “Ah, now I see the crux of the matter. Do you have children who are having trouble finding mates or something?”

    Uh, If I may be so forward as to interject, I think I have to go with J-Sim on this one.

    No Twinx, the crux is that this is a WHITE NATIONALIST establishment, as in WHITE NATION. I’ve never heard of a white and yellow nationalist (until you came aboard, but, ey, to each his own.) As an American, she has the right to her opinion, as do you, Vladimir.

    Therefore, no matter how much time you spend teaching the backwoods, Applachian, walking to their tin shacks barefoot, children, English, no matter how much money you make or how many American flags you put up in the front yard. No matter how obsequious and fawning you are, and no matter how much you insist that you have a large cock, you are an interloper, your wife is a race traitor, and your kids are mongrels to a certain percentage of the white population, and a larger percentage of the Unzistas.

    Now, they will temporarily back of of this stance when I walk into the room with my white wife, but the moment I leave BOOM! right between your two, single epicanthic folds.

    OK, now that gag reflex you’re experiencing for the first time after 40-some odd years, Mr. Anderson, that nasty aftertaste, keep in mind; that’s just the purple pill.

    “This is what a 7/8 white, 1/8 Asian person looks like:”

    And this is what a half-black half-white person looks like:

    http://www.arogundade.com/is-actress-jennifer-beals-black-or-biracial-her-ethnicity-race-nationality-and-parents.html

    Her parents are shown below. Yep, eventually, the “undesirable” bleaches out.

    Hate…Playa…Game…

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    • Replies: @Twinkie

    No Twinx, the crux is that this is a WHITE NATIONALIST establishment
     
    You are going to have do define "this" to make any kind of sense here.

    I wouldn't be surprised by this kind of a reaction on Stormfront or Amren (though there seem to be quite a few Amren commenters who do not harbor hostility toward white-Asian pairings, and may be in such relationships themselves). But the last time I checked iSteve is a "citizenist" blog.

    your kids are mongrels to a certain percentage of the white population, and a larger percentage of the Unzistas.
     
    Who knows what the demographics of "Unzistas" are. I don't think you know. We have *some* sense of what the commenters are like, but in that regard, we are talking of a very small minority of a very small minority of a very small minority of white Americans. And even amongst that tiny number, I only see a handful of folks who seem bent out of shape about white-Asian pairings.

    Most folks here seem to be citizenists to me. Certainly the vast majority of whites I know well enough in real life are assimilationists.

    As an American, she has the right to her opinion, as do you, Vladimir.
     
    What's with the feigned moral outrage? Of course she has right to her opinion, whatever the quality of that opinion. Who suggested otherwise? It's her God-given right as an American to hold whatever views she likes and it is my God-given right as an American to tell her where I think she is wrong. I don't see why you are acting like some sort of a unique champion of such rights here.

    But I do take some amusement at the interesting temporary alliance of convenience between a frothing at the mouth white nationalist ("stole" "white woman") and a black "Gentle Giant" apologist.

    “This is what a 7/8 white, 1/8 Asian person looks like:”

    And this is what a half-black half-white person looks like:
     
    I don't think this is a contest, but objectively-speaking I think Kate Beckinsale looks far more NW European than Jennifer Beals does (perhaps because Beckinsale IS far more NW European genetically than Beals). So I don't quite get what your point is.

    This is an issue of intermarriage and assimilation. East Asians tend to do so with whites. Blacks do not, something even the NY Times "worried" about as early as 1998: http://www.nytimes.com/1998/08/16/magazine/the-beige-and-the-black.html

    Thus, the old duality between whites and nonwhites is finally breaking down. But don't cheer just yet. For what seems to be emerging in the United States is a new dichotomy between blacks and nonblacks. Increasingly, whites, Asians and Hispanics are creating a broad community from which black Americans may be excluded.
     
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @JSM
    "It was whites who got on sailing ships to explore and map the world (and later the moon). As Galileo taught us, there is risk in challenging the status quo even if it is purely mental exploration."

    Yeppers. Asians, while smart, are conformist and lacking in creativity. Hence, once they figure out something that works pretty good, by golly, they stick with it. And stick with it...and several centuries later, are still sticking with it, until White guys come sailing up and make them change their ways.

    Can't see any benefit to smart White boys who, given the chance, would explore not just the world but the solar system, by importing stick-in-the-mud Asians to take their places in elite schools and innovative institutions. I wanna see us go back to the moon and see O'Neill colonies built, darn it! And looking to the Japs to make it happen is ...unjustifiably optimistic, to say the least.

    Can't see any benefit to smart White boys from importing the likes of Twinkie, who not only himself takes a White woman, who will therefore never make more White boys, but his mixed boys are ALSO are stealing White girls from White boys (or at least, so he boasts.)

    the likes of Twinkie, who not only himself takes a White woman, who will therefore never make more White boys, but his mixed boys are ALSO are stealing White girls from White boys

    Ah, now I see the crux of the matter. Do you have children who are having trouble finding mates or something?

    By the way, most likely my half-white children will marry white spouses (that’s statistically very likely indeed and given our social situation doubly so). That means my grandchildren would be 3/4 white, 1/4 East Asian. If they also married whites, my great grandchildren would be 7/8 white, 1/8 East Asian (and of course their kids would be 15/16 white, 1/16 East Asian).

    This is what a 7/8 white, 1/8 Asian person looks like:
    That’s not white enough for your descendants?

    My children, boys and girls, have been raised as virtuous, God-fearing, patriotic Americans. They are also smart and athletic. Their future spouses will be lucky to have them as marriage partners. I don’t see why this is a net negative for the country.

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  • @JSM
    "Low IQ white nationalists/supremacists are"... "you are resentful of kids who will amount to more than you did"....

    The Asian supremacy is strong in this one.

    For a guy who *claims* to love and have assimilated to his wife's Southern people, he sure has a lot of contempt for a whole lot of 'em.


    "are enough good reasons to oppose mass migration from Asia"

    and there are enough good reasons to oppose ANY immigration from Asia -- and YOU are it.

    ****

    Here's tonight's question for the Audience Participation section of our show:

    Asian supremacists tell us the reason that modern East Asians, despite all their extra IQ points, have not made the kinds of scientific breakthroughs like, say, Newton and Gauss and Maxwell, is NOT, repeat NOT due to cheating or lack of creative thinking, but simply because us Whiteys "picked all the low-hanging fruit" and now it's much harder to make groundbreaking discoveries; in other words, that White guys did all the major discovering early on because they were such easy concepts.

    Okay...so, if Law of Gravity and electricity=magnetism are such easy pickings, how COME these mental giants in Asia, who, after all, have had settled civilizations and IQ tests for millennia before the European Renaissance, had to wait for Whitey to get it together enough to DO the easy discoveries? Why didn't THEY do the "easy" pickings? Hmmmm???

    Okay…so, if Law of Gravity and electricity=magnetism are such easy pickings, how COME these mental giants in Asia, who, after all, have had settled civilizations and IQ tests for millennia before the European Renaissance, had to wait for Whitey to get it together enough to DO the easy discoveries? Why didn’t THEY do the “easy” pickings? Hmmmm???

    My guess would be that the system of mathematics used prior to then was not conducive to advances in the physical sciences. The creation of the calculus which is the basic language of physics and engineering is what made the difference.

    I did see a TV show once where a old book was written over by monks. The underlying book seemed to be by Archimedes where he theorized infinity and possibly calculus. Imagine what might have happened if he wasn’t murdered and the Roman engineers had calculus.

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  • @Stan D Mute

    Okay…so, if Law of Gravity and electricity=magnetism are such easy pickings, how COME these mental giants in Asia, who, after all, have had settled civilizations and IQ tests for millennia before the European Renaissance, had to wait for Whitey to get it together enough to DO the easy discoveries? Why didn’t THEY do the “easy” pickings? Hmmmm???
     
    I posit this is result of two (or more) factors. First, it appears the shape of the curve is different for whites versus East Asians. While East Asians are somewhat smarter on average, there are more whites at the extreme ends per capita. Second, whites seem more likely to be mavericks. It was whites who got on sailing ships to explore and map the world (and later the moon). As Galileo taught us, there is risk in challenging the status quo even if it is purely mental exploration. And of course advances in science build upon one another so it helps much when your smart fraction risk-takers are close enough to learn from one another.

    First, it appears the shape of the curve is different for whites versus East Asians. While East Asians are somewhat smarter on average, there are more whites at the extreme ends per capita.

    This is oft repeated among white nationalist/supremacist circles, but never substantiated. Steve Hsu (who is linked on Mr. Sailer’s blog roll) investigated this in 2008: http://infoproc.blogspot.com/2008/06/asian-white-iq-variance-from-pisa.html

    He found that the standard deviation for northeast Asians was close (95) to that of the OECD (90), and was actually a bit higher, meaning there are slightly *more* East Asians at the extreme ends per capita than among Europeans. Indeed, Finns (!) actually exhibited the curvier SD at 80 (meaning more people in the middle than at the edges).

    So we will have to look to another explanation.

    Second, whites seem more likely to be mavericks. It was whites who got on sailing ships to explore and map the world (and later the moon).

    I think this might contribute a bit to the answer. Northeast Asians seem to have greater social conformity, lower sociability, and greater risk-aversion than the European average (but they are pretty close to the Nordics who also exhibit similar traits), likely due to both genetic and cultural reasons.

    But it isn’t as if NE Asians didn’t engage in explorations in sailing ships. The eunuch admiral Cheng Ho of China famously led seven epic voyages in huge ships with tens of thousands of men to India, the Middle East, and East Africa long before Europeans ventured into the high seas.

    I think the reasons for Western European dominance since the 17-18th Centuries are multiple, some possibly genetic, but much of it probably environmental and historical and a part of it even chance. And as can be seen from the rise and fall of various dominant Eurasian civilizations, it was neither preordained nor destined to be the case forever.

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    • Replies: @The most deplorable one

    I think the reasons for Western European dominance since the 17-18th Centuries are multiple, some possibly genetic, but much of it probably environmental and historical and a part of it even chance. And as can be seen from the rise and fall of various dominant Eurasian civilizations, it was neither preordained nor destined to be the case forever.
     
    Nick Szabo suggests that it starts further back than that:

    http://unenumerated.blogspot.com/2014/10/transportation-divergence-and.html

    http://unenumerated.blogspot.com/2013/11/european-asian-divergence-predates.html

    He has some other stuff at that site including a very interesting posting on Dead Reckoning and the Exploration Explosion and the Italian use of the compass and sand glass to navigate reliably long distances by sea:

    http://unenumerated.blogspot.com/2012/10/dead-reckoning-and-exploration-explosion.html
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  • Civilization is a limitless multiplication of unnecessary necessities. ó Mark Twain

    Wall Street has expanded failure on a global basis. We’re exporting bad fast food and corn syrup drinks to cultures that had stable diets for centuries to deliver shareholder value and low wage work. California is making a mint exporting nothing other than the ability to search for it or book it without books. With no old products to worry about, you are thenew product. You are selling you. You’re the prisoner of your own price tag. Get in on the corn syrup and we can sell them needles and diabetic pharma solutions. Get them fattened up and sell them diet plans. Sell them cars and open filling stations, muffler shops and bad food. Mail more plastic to cover their sorry asses. We’re losing billions on the postal failure and trillions on the bad boomer pensions. Check your credit scores and score more bailouts. Preacher man said send a donation cause he’s worried about your soul. Little church failed, so pack them into the megachurch and shake them down.

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  • @JSM
    "Low IQ white nationalists/supremacists are"... "you are resentful of kids who will amount to more than you did"....

    The Asian supremacy is strong in this one.

    For a guy who *claims* to love and have assimilated to his wife's Southern people, he sure has a lot of contempt for a whole lot of 'em.


    "are enough good reasons to oppose mass migration from Asia"

    and there are enough good reasons to oppose ANY immigration from Asia -- and YOU are it.

    ****

    Here's tonight's question for the Audience Participation section of our show:

    Asian supremacists tell us the reason that modern East Asians, despite all their extra IQ points, have not made the kinds of scientific breakthroughs like, say, Newton and Gauss and Maxwell, is NOT, repeat NOT due to cheating or lack of creative thinking, but simply because us Whiteys "picked all the low-hanging fruit" and now it's much harder to make groundbreaking discoveries; in other words, that White guys did all the major discovering early on because they were such easy concepts.

    Okay...so, if Law of Gravity and electricity=magnetism are such easy pickings, how COME these mental giants in Asia, who, after all, have had settled civilizations and IQ tests for millennia before the European Renaissance, had to wait for Whitey to get it together enough to DO the easy discoveries? Why didn't THEY do the "easy" pickings? Hmmmm???

    I never heard that claim, but anyone who thinks Newton’s laws of motion are “low-hanging fruit” doesn’t really understand them.

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  • @Nathan Wartooth
    But not for the reasons that you think.

    Women don't want to marry a guy who makes less than they do. The ugly smart women who make a lot of money are in the worst position of all.

    Easy prey for callous types who know how to manipulate the emotions. Her IQ doesn’t help her in that area.

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  • Twinkie said in reply to something I said:

    “I don’t know who made that kind of an unintelligent argument, but that wasn’t me.”

    Then Twinkie said:

    “Keep at it while the country becomes 30-40% Hispanic/Mestizo in the next few decades. But, hey, they’re just brown “white” people who don’t “cheat,” so life will be just peachy for American folks, right?”

    To which I reply, right back atcha: I don’t know who made that kind of an unintelligent argument, but that wasn’t me.

    IMMIGRATION MORATORIUM NOW!

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    • Replies: @Twinkie

    To which I reply, right back atcha: I don’t know who made that kind of an unintelligent argument, but that wasn’t me.
     
    In another thread, I believe you wrote something to the effect of "Hispanic immigration is a problem, but the real problem is the Asians!" You seem to be prioritizing preventing Asian immigration over Hispanic one.

    IMMIGRATION MORATORIUM NOW!
     
    While I'd like to leave a small number of immigration slots open (say 1-5% of the current *legal* immigration level) for the latter-day Wernher von Brauns of the world who want to be Americans (meaning, highly skills-based), I'd prefer a total immigration moratorium over just about any other policy recommendation, including the status quo.

    I believe you know I hold this position, and I also believe you are intelligent enough to know that that's a far "harder" line position than what immigration policy position the vast majority of even whites hold in this country.

    I am courteous enough to address most and, usually, all of your wild assertions. Yet because you are unhealthily obsessed about my marrying a white woman, you drive by-froth at me at every opportunity.

    So, JSM, is Kate Beckinsale not white enough for you?
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  • @Stan D Mute

    Okay…so, if Law of Gravity and electricity=magnetism are such easy pickings, how COME these mental giants in Asia, who, after all, have had settled civilizations and IQ tests for millennia before the European Renaissance, had to wait for Whitey to get it together enough to DO the easy discoveries? Why didn’t THEY do the “easy” pickings? Hmmmm???
     
    I posit this is result of two (or more) factors. First, it appears the shape of the curve is different for whites versus East Asians. While East Asians are somewhat smarter on average, there are more whites at the extreme ends per capita. Second, whites seem more likely to be mavericks. It was whites who got on sailing ships to explore and map the world (and later the moon). As Galileo taught us, there is risk in challenging the status quo even if it is purely mental exploration. And of course advances in science build upon one another so it helps much when your smart fraction risk-takers are close enough to learn from one another.

    “It was whites who got on sailing ships to explore and map the world (and later the moon). As Galileo taught us, there is risk in challenging the status quo even if it is purely mental exploration.”

    Yeppers. Asians, while smart, are conformist and lacking in creativity. Hence, once they figure out something that works pretty good, by golly, they stick with it. And stick with it…and several centuries later, are still sticking with it, until White guys come sailing up and make them change their ways.

    Can’t see any benefit to smart White boys who, given the chance, would explore not just the world but the solar system, by importing stick-in-the-mud Asians to take their places in elite schools and innovative institutions. I wanna see us go back to the moon and see O’Neill colonies built, darn it! And looking to the Japs to make it happen is …unjustifiably optimistic, to say the least.

    Can’t see any benefit to smart White boys from importing the likes of Twinkie, who not only himself takes a White woman, who will therefore never make more White boys, but his mixed boys are ALSO are stealing White girls from White boys (or at least, so he boasts.)

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    • Replies: @Twinkie

    the likes of Twinkie, who not only himself takes a White woman, who will therefore never make more White boys, but his mixed boys are ALSO are stealing White girls from White boys
     
    Ah, now I see the crux of the matter. Do you have children who are having trouble finding mates or something?

    By the way, most likely my half-white children will marry white spouses (that's statistically very likely indeed and given our social situation doubly so). That means my grandchildren would be 3/4 white, 1/4 East Asian. If they also married whites, my great grandchildren would be 7/8 white, 1/8 East Asian (and of course their kids would be 15/16 white, 1/16 East Asian).

    This is what a 7/8 white, 1/8 Asian person looks like: https://thegoodgreatsby.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/kate-beckinsale-kate-beckinsale.jpg

    That's not white enough for your descendants?

    My children, boys and girls, have been raised as virtuous, God-fearing, patriotic Americans. They are also smart and athletic. Their future spouses will be lucky to have them as marriage partners. I don't see why this is a net negative for the country.

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @E. Rekshun
    Asians think of test prep as getting as many answers right as possible, ideally without any understanding of the underlying material necessary.

    Though it rarely happens, this is how the low-socioeconomic high-school students "learn" calculus. (Like the "true story" of those Hispanic students in "Stand and Deliver.") They're just memorizing a set of step-by-step procedures to "solve" a very small set of calculus problems.

    They’re just memorizing a set of step-by-step procedures to “solve” a very small set of calculus problems.

    Exactly. If you can learn in 9th grade that y = x^2 – 3x + 2 crosses the x axis at 1 and 2, then three years later you can surely learn that the slope of that same function is 2x-3.

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  • @JSM
    "Low IQ white nationalists/supremacists are"... "you are resentful of kids who will amount to more than you did"....

    The Asian supremacy is strong in this one.

    For a guy who *claims* to love and have assimilated to his wife's Southern people, he sure has a lot of contempt for a whole lot of 'em.


    "are enough good reasons to oppose mass migration from Asia"

    and there are enough good reasons to oppose ANY immigration from Asia -- and YOU are it.

    ****

    Here's tonight's question for the Audience Participation section of our show:

    Asian supremacists tell us the reason that modern East Asians, despite all their extra IQ points, have not made the kinds of scientific breakthroughs like, say, Newton and Gauss and Maxwell, is NOT, repeat NOT due to cheating or lack of creative thinking, but simply because us Whiteys "picked all the low-hanging fruit" and now it's much harder to make groundbreaking discoveries; in other words, that White guys did all the major discovering early on because they were such easy concepts.

    Okay...so, if Law of Gravity and electricity=magnetism are such easy pickings, how COME these mental giants in Asia, who, after all, have had settled civilizations and IQ tests for millennia before the European Renaissance, had to wait for Whitey to get it together enough to DO the easy discoveries? Why didn't THEY do the "easy" pickings? Hmmmm???

    Okay…so, if Law of Gravity and electricity=magnetism are such easy pickings, how COME these mental giants in Asia, who, after all, have had settled civilizations and IQ tests for millennia before the European Renaissance, had to wait for Whitey to get it together enough to DO the easy discoveries? Why didn’t THEY do the “easy” pickings? Hmmmm???

    I posit this is result of two (or more) factors. First, it appears the shape of the curve is different for whites versus East Asians. While East Asians are somewhat smarter on average, there are more whites at the extreme ends per capita. Second, whites seem more likely to be mavericks. It was whites who got on sailing ships to explore and map the world (and later the moon). As Galileo taught us, there is risk in challenging the status quo even if it is purely mental exploration. And of course advances in science build upon one another so it helps much when your smart fraction risk-takers are close enough to learn from one another.

    Read More
    • Replies: @JSM
    "It was whites who got on sailing ships to explore and map the world (and later the moon). As Galileo taught us, there is risk in challenging the status quo even if it is purely mental exploration."

    Yeppers. Asians, while smart, are conformist and lacking in creativity. Hence, once they figure out something that works pretty good, by golly, they stick with it. And stick with it...and several centuries later, are still sticking with it, until White guys come sailing up and make them change their ways.

    Can't see any benefit to smart White boys who, given the chance, would explore not just the world but the solar system, by importing stick-in-the-mud Asians to take their places in elite schools and innovative institutions. I wanna see us go back to the moon and see O'Neill colonies built, darn it! And looking to the Japs to make it happen is ...unjustifiably optimistic, to say the least.

    Can't see any benefit to smart White boys from importing the likes of Twinkie, who not only himself takes a White woman, who will therefore never make more White boys, but his mixed boys are ALSO are stealing White girls from White boys (or at least, so he boasts.)
    , @Twinkie

    First, it appears the shape of the curve is different for whites versus East Asians. While East Asians are somewhat smarter on average, there are more whites at the extreme ends per capita.
     
    This is oft repeated among white nationalist/supremacist circles, but never substantiated. Steve Hsu (who is linked on Mr. Sailer's blog roll) investigated this in 2008: http://infoproc.blogspot.com/2008/06/asian-white-iq-variance-from-pisa.html

    He found that the standard deviation for northeast Asians was close (95) to that of the OECD (90), and was actually a bit higher, meaning there are slightly *more* East Asians at the extreme ends per capita than among Europeans. Indeed, Finns (!) actually exhibited the curvier SD at 80 (meaning more people in the middle than at the edges).

    So we will have to look to another explanation.

    Second, whites seem more likely to be mavericks. It was whites who got on sailing ships to explore and map the world (and later the moon).
     
    I think this might contribute a bit to the answer. Northeast Asians seem to have greater social conformity, lower sociability, and greater risk-aversion than the European average (but they are pretty close to the Nordics who also exhibit similar traits), likely due to both genetic and cultural reasons.

    But it isn't as if NE Asians didn't engage in explorations in sailing ships. The eunuch admiral Cheng Ho of China famously led seven epic voyages in huge ships with tens of thousands of men to India, the Middle East, and East Africa long before Europeans ventured into the high seas.

    I think the reasons for Western European dominance since the 17-18th Centuries are multiple, some possibly genetic, but much of it probably environmental and historical and a part of it even chance. And as can be seen from the rise and fall of various dominant Eurasian civilizations, it was neither preordained nor destined to be the case forever.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Reg Cæsar

    What Americans think of as test prep and what Asians think of as test prep are entirely different things.

     

    My "test prep" in the mid-'70s consisted of staying up till 3am listening to LPs with my new Koss headphones. (Like too many other school nights!)

    The brand-new chain bookstore-- B Dalton or Walden, I forget-- had a ceiling-to-floor bookcase of test-prep guides, but they were mostly for things like firefighter and refrigeration specialist exams, not aptitude tests. I didn't see a need to "game" the SAT because it was already a game, like spending Saturday morning at the pinball arcade.

    I don't know what formal prep would have done. My score got me into engineering school (2nd choice), and later Mensa. But that's no good when your ADD percentile is just as high. I didn't need an élite school, but a patient and forgiving one.

    My counselor was annoying, but she was probably on to something when she suggested I go to a 2-year state tech "starter" school despite the high scores. A gap year (who'd ever heard of that?) or going directly into the service would have been a smarter move.

    Sometimes your test score can be too high for your own good!

    and later Mensa

    Once in, did you see any point in sticking around? Or get booted for “acts inimical to Mensa”?

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  • @namae nanka

    The probability of entering and remaining in an intellectually elite profession such as Physician, Judge, Professor, Scientist, Corporate Executive, etc. increases with IQ to about 133. It then falls about 1/3 by 140. By 150 IQ the probability has fallen by 97%!
     
    http://michaelwferguson.blogspot.com/p/the-inappropriately-excluded-by-michael.html

    http://michaelwferguson.blogspot.com/p/the-inappropriately-excluded-by-michael.html

    This is due to boredom and disaffection with the process entirely. Kids at the extreme end of the bell curve don’t fit in classes with their “peers” nor do they fit with classes of older kids when they skip grades. They can be very hard to teach as often they don’t learn in the same manner the regular kids do. And of course perhaps worst of all is that they see directly through all the BS the schools and parents try to feed them.

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  • Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    Pick up a Korean-language Sunday newspaper from Palisades Park, NJ, and you will find a huge education section. In it you will see ad after ad of test prep centers along with former students and their SAT scores and which colleges they were accepted to. No doubt Koreans might, on average, have a little IQ advantage, but their success is 95% brute force hard work. Same with Jews, who are neurotically hardworking. If one truly accepted the statistics and IQ distribution, East Asians and Jews are over-represented in academic achievement, big time. Unless, of course, there is more to it that simply IQ. But I'll bet Murray has personal reasons for not wanting to accept this. He was raised by a schoolmarm and he strikes me as being as serious at the age of 10 as he is now. He studied history and social science. He failed out of linear algebra. But of course, his getting into Harvard and MIT was due solely to his high IQ.

    Murray flunked Linear Algebra? Really? It is a by far the easiest advanced math course because it’s well…Algebra. Nothing compared to Mathematical Statistics or Differential Equations or Vector Calculus.

    If you look at all of the Policy nitwits that are released from Harvard Yard to infect the rest of us with dopey ideas, most probably can’t add 2 and 2.

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  • Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @JSM
    "Low IQ white nationalists/supremacists are"... "you are resentful of kids who will amount to more than you did"....

    The Asian supremacy is strong in this one.

    For a guy who *claims* to love and have assimilated to his wife's Southern people, he sure has a lot of contempt for a whole lot of 'em.


    "are enough good reasons to oppose mass migration from Asia"

    and there are enough good reasons to oppose ANY immigration from Asia -- and YOU are it.

    ****

    Here's tonight's question for the Audience Participation section of our show:

    Asian supremacists tell us the reason that modern East Asians, despite all their extra IQ points, have not made the kinds of scientific breakthroughs like, say, Newton and Gauss and Maxwell, is NOT, repeat NOT due to cheating or lack of creative thinking, but simply because us Whiteys "picked all the low-hanging fruit" and now it's much harder to make groundbreaking discoveries; in other words, that White guys did all the major discovering early on because they were such easy concepts.

    Okay...so, if Law of Gravity and electricity=magnetism are such easy pickings, how COME these mental giants in Asia, who, after all, have had settled civilizations and IQ tests for millennia before the European Renaissance, had to wait for Whitey to get it together enough to DO the easy discoveries? Why didn't THEY do the "easy" pickings? Hmmmm???

    For a guy who *claims* to love and have assimilated to his wife’s Southern people, he sure has a lot of contempt for a whole lot of ‘em.

    No, just for people like “Educational Realist” who spout a lot of racial envy without evidence.

    I know this is a difficult concept for you, but dislike of one or several white persons does not equal hatred of white people in general. Setting aside other white people, I view most of my fellow Americans (a large majority of who are whites) as decent, hardworking, and Christian people to whom I owe my allegiance.

    As I mentioned in another thread, that allegiance extends to even people like you who are obstinately unreasonable and hate-filled. I’d defend you and your children to the last drop of my blood if you were attacked by non-Americans (or by American domestic criminals), because whether you like it or not, you are a part of my larger tribe.

    and there are enough good reasons to oppose ANY immigration from Asia — and YOU are it.

    Yes, yes, it’s clear that you have a mouth-frothing resentment about me. Keep at it while the country becomes 30-40% Hispanic/Mestizo in the next few decades. But, hey, they’re just brown “white” people who don’t “cheat,” so life will be just peachy for American folks, right?

    Asian supremacists tell us the reason that modern East Asians, despite all their extra IQ points, have not made the kinds of scientific breakthroughs like, say, Newton and Gauss and Maxwell, is NOT, repeat NOT due to cheating or lack of creative thinking, but simply because us Whiteys “picked all the low-hanging fruit”

    I don’t know who made that kind of an unintelligent argument, but that wasn’t me.

    I don’t want to write a novel-length response, so let’s just say that periods of scientific, economic, and military-political dominance by various regions in the vast expanse of the Eurasian continent have shifted back and forth among different groups for the past several thousand years. For example, Scandinavians are today lauded for their clean, rich, highly technologically advanced and orderly societies, but until relatively recently (say, the 18th-19th Centuries), their countries were quite backward and poor. Even at the height of its empire building during the 18th Century, Sweden remained behind many European powers and this intellectual and material poverty was one of the reasons why it could not sustain the brilliant conquests of men like Gustavus Adolphus.

    White nationalist/supremacist types would like to conflate all whites together as if there existed a single continuum of (particular set of) genetics-driven scientific achievements through the millennia, but that’s an ideological construct of modern Western Europeans who fancied themselves as successors to the glories of classical Rome and Greece even though to the builders of the Latino and Hellenic civilizations the Germanic ancestors of the latter-day Western Europeans were smelly barbarians incapable of building complex polities and cities. Where was the Great Albion while glories of Rome were still fresh?

    Unless there are dramatic IQ differences (e.g. sub-Saharan Africans and Meso-Americans), there are ebbs and flows to complex civilizations, in which some regions temporarily excel over others and so forth. “The Rise of the West” beginning with the 17th Century was a phenomenon that was strongly to tied to the revolution in military affairs that shifted from the southern European dominance to a northern and western one.

    So, looking at it continent-wide, there are certainly HBD scientists (e.g. the late Phil Rushton) who surmised that the period of Western supremacy may be nearing an end and that the East may be reaching a period of parity (at least) with the West.

    Certainly if we were to use patents per capita as a proxy for general creativeness/inventiveness, East Asians seem to be doing well of late: http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Economy/Patents-granted

    If you opened any serious peer-reviewed scientific journal today, you would see that great many articles are authored by those with Asian surnames in fields like mathematics, physics, chemistry, and so on. East Asia has awakened from its long period of intellectual and civilizational slumber and has undergone a very rapid scientific advancement and industrialization. And they are beginning to flex their muscle globally.

    While I am happy that such Asian gains have resulted in far fewer people living in poverty around the world, as an American I look at this general trend with some caution and worry since some of these countries (the most notable of which is China) may become a rival to my country, the United States, for global hegemony.

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  • @Beliavsky
    Both the SAT math and verbal are g-loaded, but I've seen studies showing that it is easier to boost math than verbal scores with test prep, which suggests to me that the verbal section is more g-loaded, since test prep does not raise g.

    Both the SAT math and verbal are g-loaded, but I’ve seen studies showing that it is easier to boost math than verbal scores with test prep

    I’d love to read those studies. Would you please have any links or citations?

    it is easier to boost math than verbal scores with test prep, which suggests to me that the verbal section is more g-loaded, since test prep does not raise g.

    I am not certain the logic of that necessarily follows, even if we accepted the premise.

    As far as “test prep” is concerned, I do think that the verbal section requires lengthier preparation in order to raise scores. Vocabulary (indeed language learning) is built by necessity + repetition, so it’s not something one can “just pick up” by learning the underlying principles as is the case with math questions.

    When I took the test for the specialized high school entrance in NYC, my math section was perfect and my verbal was not (that was about one year after I arrived in the U.S. prior to which I had minimal English training). When I took the SAT a few years later, I scored 99 percentile on both math and verbal, but my math was still higher by about 50 points (raw score). By the time I took the GRE, however, my command of the English language was at native level and I had read hundreds of advanced books in English. Both my math and verbal section scores were pretty close to each other, only off by 20 points, both 99 percentile.

    The point is that my IQ hadn’t changed, but my vocabulary and the general command of the English language improved greatly during those years. So my quantitative scores remained pretty much the same for all those tests, but my verbal scores improved (not hugely, but enough to notice).

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  • Beyond $200,000, PIAT scores go down as income increases.

    And therefore $200,000 should be the maximum income allowed in America?

    Republicans are wrong as usual…for opposing taxing the rich. It’s for their own good…

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  • @Twinkie

    Asians think of test prep as getting as many answers right as possible, ideally without any understanding of the underlying material necessary. That kind of test prep helps Asians with good memories come up with a test score with no relation to what Americans (not white people, mind you) would consider representative of their abilities.
     
    The quantitative portion of SAT is basically an IQ test. You can't memorize answers - you do have to understand "the underlying material." If one had sufficiently high enough IQ, one would figure out rather quickly that many questions seek answers that aren't being asked (e.g. selecting the right answer for a multi-digit multiplication, for which only the stupid would actually calculate the answer and burn up precious time instead of discarding those multiple choices with wrong last digits).

    The verbal portion, especially vocabulary-centric questions are based on memory - either reading a lot or memorizing words, their synonyms and anonyms, usually both (all language learning is necessity + repetition).

    If rote memorization helps anywhere it's the vocab section. Yet Asians do better on the quantitative section.

    And given Asian preference for the SAT, they are almost certainly cheating, as well as gaming.
     
    Give it a rest. Low IQ white nationalists/supremacists are already convinced by you (and don't require pesky things like evidence, which you refuse to provide; for them you only have to say "Asians cheat" or "I knew this Asian once and...") and high IQ HBD-types aren't buying the "I repeat it 1000 times so it must be true" routine. The latter require things like, I don't know, evidence (which you, extremely disingenuously, do not provide under the guise that you "don't have a 'proof' or anything" and that you are merely "raising questions."

    There are enough good reasons to oppose mass migration from Asia. You don't need to invent a fantasy excuse, just because you are resentful of kids who will amount to more than you did.

    Both the SAT math and verbal are g-loaded, but I’ve seen studies showing that it is easier to boost math than verbal scores with test prep, which suggests to me that the verbal section is more g-loaded, since test prep does not raise g.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Both the SAT math and verbal are g-loaded, but I’ve seen studies showing that it is easier to boost math than verbal scores with test prep
     
    I'd love to read those studies. Would you please have any links or citations?

    it is easier to boost math than verbal scores with test prep, which suggests to me that the verbal section is more g-loaded, since test prep does not raise g.

     

    I am not certain the logic of that necessarily follows, even if we accepted the premise.

    As far as "test prep" is concerned, I do think that the verbal section requires lengthier preparation in order to raise scores. Vocabulary (indeed language learning) is built by necessity + repetition, so it's not something one can "just pick up" by learning the underlying principles as is the case with math questions.

    When I took the test for the specialized high school entrance in NYC, my math section was perfect and my verbal was not (that was about one year after I arrived in the U.S. prior to which I had minimal English training). When I took the SAT a few years later, I scored 99 percentile on both math and verbal, but my math was still higher by about 50 points (raw score). By the time I took the GRE, however, my command of the English language was at native level and I had read hundreds of advanced books in English. Both my math and verbal section scores were pretty close to each other, only off by 20 points, both 99 percentile.

    The point is that my IQ hadn't changed, but my vocabulary and the general command of the English language improved greatly during those years. So my quantitative scores remained pretty much the same for all those tests, but my verbal scores improved (not hugely, but enough to notice).
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"] says:
    @education realist
    "When someone learns their multiplication tables does the same apply?"

    If that someone learned his multiplication tables without understanding the concepts of multiplication, yes. That's pretty rare, even at the low end of the IQ spectrum.

    "I’m not Asian but know that first you have to learn a lot of what seems like useless facts before you can understand any of the underlying principles."

    You don't know any such thing.



    "They’re just memorizing a set of step-by-step procedures to “solve” a very small set of calculus problems."

    I've read that before, and suspect it is likely true. But I've only ever found one source on it.

    “When someone learns their multiplication tables does the same apply?”

    If that someone learned his multiplication tables without understanding the concepts of multiplication, yes. That’s pretty rare, even at the low end of the IQ spectrum.

    Oh for fuck’s sake!

    I can remember back around 50 years ago where we were taught our tables. This was in another majority-white country, and the teachers had us chant our multiplication tables. We only went up to 12, not 20, as previous generations did.

    At that time, since I was in the age range from 5 to 10, I am pretty sure that I did not ‘understand’ multiplication. It was just something we had to learn. However, it was effective.

    I’m beginning to think that Ed school has warped your brain.

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  • @Twinkie

    Asians think of test prep as getting as many answers right as possible, ideally without any understanding of the underlying material necessary. That kind of test prep helps Asians with good memories come up with a test score with no relation to what Americans (not white people, mind you) would consider representative of their abilities.
     
    The quantitative portion of SAT is basically an IQ test. You can't memorize answers - you do have to understand "the underlying material." If one had sufficiently high enough IQ, one would figure out rather quickly that many questions seek answers that aren't being asked (e.g. selecting the right answer for a multi-digit multiplication, for which only the stupid would actually calculate the answer and burn up precious time instead of discarding those multiple choices with wrong last digits).

    The verbal portion, especially vocabulary-centric questions are based on memory - either reading a lot or memorizing words, their synonyms and anonyms, usually both (all language learning is necessity + repetition).

    If rote memorization helps anywhere it's the vocab section. Yet Asians do better on the quantitative section.

    And given Asian preference for the SAT, they are almost certainly cheating, as well as gaming.
     
    Give it a rest. Low IQ white nationalists/supremacists are already convinced by you (and don't require pesky things like evidence, which you refuse to provide; for them you only have to say "Asians cheat" or "I knew this Asian once and...") and high IQ HBD-types aren't buying the "I repeat it 1000 times so it must be true" routine. The latter require things like, I don't know, evidence (which you, extremely disingenuously, do not provide under the guise that you "don't have a 'proof' or anything" and that you are merely "raising questions."

    There are enough good reasons to oppose mass migration from Asia. You don't need to invent a fantasy excuse, just because you are resentful of kids who will amount to more than you did.

    “Low IQ white nationalists/supremacists are”… “you are resentful of kids who will amount to more than you did”….

    The Asian supremacy is strong in this one.

    For a guy who *claims* to love and have assimilated to his wife’s Southern people, he sure has a lot of contempt for a whole lot of ‘em.

    “are enough good reasons to oppose mass migration from Asia”

    and there are enough good reasons to oppose ANY immigration from Asia — and YOU are it.

    ****

    Here’s tonight’s question for the Audience Participation section of our show:

    Asian supremacists tell us the reason that modern East Asians, despite all their extra IQ points, have not made the kinds of scientific breakthroughs like, say, Newton and Gauss and Maxwell, is NOT, repeat NOT due to cheating or lack of creative thinking, but simply because us Whiteys “picked all the low-hanging fruit” and now it’s much harder to make groundbreaking discoveries; in other words, that White guys did all the major discovering early on because they were such easy concepts.

    Okay…so, if Law of Gravity and electricity=magnetism are such easy pickings, how COME these mental giants in Asia, who, after all, have had settled civilizations and IQ tests for millennia before the European Renaissance, had to wait for Whitey to get it together enough to DO the easy discoveries? Why didn’t THEY do the “easy” pickings? Hmmmm???

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous

    For a guy who *claims* to love and have assimilated to his wife’s Southern people, he sure has a lot of contempt for a whole lot of ‘em.
     
    No, just for people like "Educational Realist" who spout a lot of racial envy without evidence.

    I know this is a difficult concept for you, but dislike of one or several white persons does not equal hatred of white people in general. Setting aside other white people, I view most of my fellow Americans (a large majority of who are whites) as decent, hardworking, and Christian people to whom I owe my allegiance.

    As I mentioned in another thread, that allegiance extends to even people like you who are obstinately unreasonable and hate-filled. I'd defend you and your children to the last drop of my blood if you were attacked by non-Americans (or by American domestic criminals), because whether you like it or not, you are a part of my larger tribe.

    and there are enough good reasons to oppose ANY immigration from Asia — and YOU are it.
     
    Yes, yes, it's clear that you have a mouth-frothing resentment about me. Keep at it while the country becomes 30-40% Hispanic/Mestizo in the next few decades. But, hey, they're just brown "white" people who don't "cheat," so life will be just peachy for American folks, right?

    Asian supremacists tell us the reason that modern East Asians, despite all their extra IQ points, have not made the kinds of scientific breakthroughs like, say, Newton and Gauss and Maxwell, is NOT, repeat NOT due to cheating or lack of creative thinking, but simply because us Whiteys “picked all the low-hanging fruit”
     
    I don't know who made that kind of an unintelligent argument, but that wasn't me.

    I don't want to write a novel-length response, so let's just say that periods of scientific, economic, and military-political dominance by various regions in the vast expanse of the Eurasian continent have shifted back and forth among different groups for the past several thousand years. For example, Scandinavians are today lauded for their clean, rich, highly technologically advanced and orderly societies, but until relatively recently (say, the 18th-19th Centuries), their countries were quite backward and poor. Even at the height of its empire building during the 18th Century, Sweden remained behind many European powers and this intellectual and material poverty was one of the reasons why it could not sustain the brilliant conquests of men like Gustavus Adolphus.

    White nationalist/supremacist types would like to conflate all whites together as if there existed a single continuum of (particular set of) genetics-driven scientific achievements through the millennia, but that's an ideological construct of modern Western Europeans who fancied themselves as successors to the glories of classical Rome and Greece even though to the builders of the Latino and Hellenic civilizations the Germanic ancestors of the latter-day Western Europeans were smelly barbarians incapable of building complex polities and cities. Where was the Great Albion while glories of Rome were still fresh?

    Unless there are dramatic IQ differences (e.g. sub-Saharan Africans and Meso-Americans), there are ebbs and flows to complex civilizations, in which some regions temporarily excel over others and so forth. "The Rise of the West" beginning with the 17th Century was a phenomenon that was strongly to tied to the revolution in military affairs that shifted from the southern European dominance to a northern and western one.

    So, looking at it continent-wide, there are certainly HBD scientists (e.g. the late Phil Rushton) who surmised that the period of Western supremacy may be nearing an end and that the East may be reaching a period of parity (at least) with the West.

    Certainly if we were to use patents per capita as a proxy for general creativeness/inventiveness, East Asians seem to be doing well of late: http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Economy/Patents-granted

    If you opened any serious peer-reviewed scientific journal today, you would see that great many articles are authored by those with Asian surnames in fields like mathematics, physics, chemistry, and so on. East Asia has awakened from its long period of intellectual and civilizational slumber and has undergone a very rapid scientific advancement and industrialization. And they are beginning to flex their muscle globally.

    While I am happy that such Asian gains have resulted in far fewer people living in poverty around the world, as an American I look at this general trend with some caution and worry since some of these countries (the most notable of which is China) may become a rival to my country, the United States, for global hegemony.
    , @Stan D Mute

    Okay…so, if Law of Gravity and electricity=magnetism are such easy pickings, how COME these mental giants in Asia, who, after all, have had settled civilizations and IQ tests for millennia before the European Renaissance, had to wait for Whitey to get it together enough to DO the easy discoveries? Why didn’t THEY do the “easy” pickings? Hmmmm???
     
    I posit this is result of two (or more) factors. First, it appears the shape of the curve is different for whites versus East Asians. While East Asians are somewhat smarter on average, there are more whites at the extreme ends per capita. Second, whites seem more likely to be mavericks. It was whites who got on sailing ships to explore and map the world (and later the moon). As Galileo taught us, there is risk in challenging the status quo even if it is purely mental exploration. And of course advances in science build upon one another so it helps much when your smart fraction risk-takers are close enough to learn from one another.
    , @Jean Cocteausten
    I never heard that claim, but anyone who thinks Newton's laws of motion are "low-hanging fruit" doesn't really understand them.
    , @MarkinLA
    Okay…so, if Law of Gravity and electricity=magnetism are such easy pickings, how COME these mental giants in Asia, who, after all, have had settled civilizations and IQ tests for millennia before the European Renaissance, had to wait for Whitey to get it together enough to DO the easy discoveries? Why didn’t THEY do the “easy” pickings? Hmmmm???

    My guess would be that the system of mathematics used prior to then was not conducive to advances in the physical sciences. The creation of the calculus which is the basic language of physics and engineering is what made the difference.

    I did see a TV show once where a old book was written over by monks. The underlying book seemed to be by Archimedes where he theorized infinity and possibly calculus. Imagine what might have happened if he wasn't murdered and the Roman engineers had calculus.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @education realist
    "When someone learns their multiplication tables does the same apply?"

    If that someone learned his multiplication tables without understanding the concepts of multiplication, yes. That's pretty rare, even at the low end of the IQ spectrum.

    "I’m not Asian but know that first you have to learn a lot of what seems like useless facts before you can understand any of the underlying principles."

    You don't know any such thing.



    "They’re just memorizing a set of step-by-step procedures to “solve” a very small set of calculus problems."

    I've read that before, and suspect it is likely true. But I've only ever found one source on it.

    “I’m not Asian but know that first you have to learn a lot of what seems like useless facts before you can understand any of the underlying principles.”

    You don’t know any such thing.

    He is correct and you are wrong. The modern teaching paradigm of encouraging “creative thinking” today has gone completely overboard, to the extent that mastery of facts is being eschewed and “emoting” under the guise of being “creative” is being promoted.

    Young children (whose brain neural pathways are still forming) have to master (memorize) a substantial body of basic facts about the world around them first, before they can relate such facts to each other and form hypotheses of such relationships that eventually become principles. In essence, you have to teach young minds inductive reasoning first before they can master deductive reasoning, which is both more abstract and certain.

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  • @education realist
    What Americans think of as test prep and what Asians think of as test prep are entirely different things.

    Americans think of it as familiarity with the test, understanding of how it works. That kind of test prep will help most people a bit, some people a lot, some people not at all.

    Asians think of test prep as getting as many answers right as possible, ideally without any understanding of the underlying material necessary. That kind of test prep helps Asians with good memories come up with a test score with no relation to what Americans (not white people, mind you) would consider representative of their abilities.

    Incidentally, Kaplan test prep goes back well before the SAT, so those of you saying it didn't exist when you were kids are wrong.

    Another incidentally-whites are far less likely to get test prep than blacks or Asians, Hispanics only a bit more likely than whites. And given Asian preference for the SAT, they are almost certainly cheating, as well as gaming.

    Asians think of test prep as getting as many answers right as possible, ideally without any understanding of the underlying material necessary. That kind of test prep helps Asians with good memories come up with a test score with no relation to what Americans (not white people, mind you) would consider representative of their abilities.

    The quantitative portion of SAT is basically an IQ test. You can’t memorize answers – you do have to understand “the underlying material.” If one had sufficiently high enough IQ, one would figure out rather quickly that many questions seek answers that aren’t being asked (e.g. selecting the right answer for a multi-digit multiplication, for which only the stupid would actually calculate the answer and burn up precious time instead of discarding those multiple choices with wrong last digits).

    The verbal portion, especially vocabulary-centric questions are based on memory – either reading a lot or memorizing words, their synonyms and anonyms, usually both (all language learning is necessity + repetition).

    If rote memorization helps anywhere it’s the vocab section. Yet Asians do better on the quantitative section.

    And given Asian preference for the SAT, they are almost certainly cheating, as well as gaming.

    Give it a rest. Low IQ white nationalists/supremacists are already convinced by you (and don’t require pesky things like evidence, which you refuse to provide; for them you only have to say “Asians cheat” or “I knew this Asian once and…”) and high IQ HBD-types aren’t buying the “I repeat it 1000 times so it must be true” routine. The latter require things like, I don’t know, evidence (which you, extremely disingenuously, do not provide under the guise that you “don’t have a ‘proof’ or anything” and that you are merely “raising questions.”

    There are enough good reasons to oppose mass migration from Asia. You don’t need to invent a fantasy excuse, just because you are resentful of kids who will amount to more than you did.

    Read More
    • Replies: @JSM
    "Low IQ white nationalists/supremacists are"... "you are resentful of kids who will amount to more than you did"....

    The Asian supremacy is strong in this one.

    For a guy who *claims* to love and have assimilated to his wife's Southern people, he sure has a lot of contempt for a whole lot of 'em.


    "are enough good reasons to oppose mass migration from Asia"

    and there are enough good reasons to oppose ANY immigration from Asia -- and YOU are it.

    ****

    Here's tonight's question for the Audience Participation section of our show:

    Asian supremacists tell us the reason that modern East Asians, despite all their extra IQ points, have not made the kinds of scientific breakthroughs like, say, Newton and Gauss and Maxwell, is NOT, repeat NOT due to cheating or lack of creative thinking, but simply because us Whiteys "picked all the low-hanging fruit" and now it's much harder to make groundbreaking discoveries; in other words, that White guys did all the major discovering early on because they were such easy concepts.

    Okay...so, if Law of Gravity and electricity=magnetism are such easy pickings, how COME these mental giants in Asia, who, after all, have had settled civilizations and IQ tests for millennia before the European Renaissance, had to wait for Whitey to get it together enough to DO the easy discoveries? Why didn't THEY do the "easy" pickings? Hmmmm???

    , @Beliavsky
    Both the SAT math and verbal are g-loaded, but I've seen studies showing that it is easier to boost math than verbal scores with test prep, which suggests to me that the verbal section is more g-loaded, since test prep does not raise g.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • “When someone learns their multiplication tables does the same apply?”

    If that someone learned his multiplication tables without understanding the concepts of multiplication, yes. That’s pretty rare, even at the low end of the IQ spectrum.

    “I’m not Asian but know that first you have to learn a lot of what seems like useless facts before you can understand any of the underlying principles.”

    You don’t know any such thing.

    “They’re just memorizing a set of step-by-step procedures to “solve” a very small set of calculus problems.”

    I’ve read that before, and suspect it is likely true. But I’ve only ever found one source on it.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Twinkie

    “I’m not Asian but know that first you have to learn a lot of what seems like useless facts before you can understand any of the underlying principles.”

    You don’t know any such thing.
     
    He is correct and you are wrong. The modern teaching paradigm of encouraging "creative thinking" today has gone completely overboard, to the extent that mastery of facts is being eschewed and "emoting" under the guise of being "creative" is being promoted.

    Young children (whose brain neural pathways are still forming) have to master (memorize) a substantial body of basic facts about the world around them first, before they can relate such facts to each other and form hypotheses of such relationships that eventually become principles. In essence, you have to teach young minds inductive reasoning first before they can master deductive reasoning, which is both more abstract and certain.
    , @The most deplorable one

    “When someone learns their multiplication tables does the same apply?”

    If that someone learned his multiplication tables without understanding the concepts of multiplication, yes. That’s pretty rare, even at the low end of the IQ spectrum.
     
    Oh for fuck's sake!

    I can remember back around 50 years ago where we were taught our tables. This was in another majority-white country, and the teachers had us chant our multiplication tables. We only went up to 12, not 20, as previous generations did.

    At that time, since I was in the age range from 5 to 10, I am pretty sure that I did not 'understand' multiplication. It was just something we had to learn. However, it was effective.

    I'm beginning to think that Ed school has warped your brain.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • […] Baby-editing time approaches. Too smart for their own good. The SAT isn’t measuring affluence. Consensus catalepsy. Moral […]

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  • Sums up in “birds of a feather flock together” – good breeding improves animal stock also.

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  • @Nathan Wartooth
    "But after three years and three felonies against their small children, my in-laws were pretty much financially wiped out by trying to make integration work in Austin. And thus after they finally sold out at a massive loss, they wound up living in a farmhouse without running water for the next two years."

    This is a story that has been repeated over and over again. White flight is shown in a light where it is a horrible thing for minorities. But the truth is that it's horrible for the whites.

    When whites start fleeing an area, housing prices drop like a rock. That house that you bought for 100,000 and have paid years of the mortgage on, might only be worth 50,000 now. Since you only pay off interest in the first few years and hardly anything on the principle, you could end up owing 50,000 to the bank on that house and when you move you will be paying two mortgages instead of one.

    I'm not sure if anyone has ever done a study on how much whites have lost during white flight but at this point it has to be in the billions. Not to mention all of the money wasted on car repair and gas having to live in a suburb and work in the city.

    Getting rid of restrictive covenants has been one of the most economically damaging things to the US. Drive through an old part of a city that has had white flight. It's really sad to see all of these once beautiful houses now fallen into disrepair, because the area is now a ghetto.

    I’m not sure if anyone has ever done a study on how much whites have lost during white flight but at this point it has to be in the billions.

    A back-of-the-envelope calculation puts the number between 1 and 5 trillion in 2015 dollars.

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  • Mr Steve you have shared the story of your liberal in-laws real estate meltdown several times, but you never gave us the final chapter; what was their takeaway from their experiment with integration? Did they blame themselves or did they blame whitey?

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  • @countenance
    I always enjoy socially scientific speculation in this medium.

    But you do realize that all this hype over "student affluence test" is based on the grand mystery that is N'Deshawntavious not scoring in the 99th percentile, don't you?

    Mildly OT, but did you see the names in the Elmira, NY high school brawl? Jaziah, Diamonisha, Percephanie, JaQuea, etc.

    Fun fact taken from Jill Levoy’s Ghettoside is that the apostrophes and offbeat spellings in their names make their owners’ criminal records harder to trace.

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  • @education realist
    What Americans think of as test prep and what Asians think of as test prep are entirely different things.

    Americans think of it as familiarity with the test, understanding of how it works. That kind of test prep will help most people a bit, some people a lot, some people not at all.

    Asians think of test prep as getting as many answers right as possible, ideally without any understanding of the underlying material necessary. That kind of test prep helps Asians with good memories come up with a test score with no relation to what Americans (not white people, mind you) would consider representative of their abilities.

    Incidentally, Kaplan test prep goes back well before the SAT, so those of you saying it didn't exist when you were kids are wrong.

    Another incidentally-whites are far less likely to get test prep than blacks or Asians, Hispanics only a bit more likely than whites. And given Asian preference for the SAT, they are almost certainly cheating, as well as gaming.

    Asians think of test prep as getting as many answers right as possible, ideally without any understanding of the underlying material necessary.

    Though it rarely happens, this is how the low-socioeconomic high-school students “learn” calculus. (Like the “true story” of those Hispanic students in “Stand and Deliver.”) They’re just memorizing a set of step-by-step procedures to “solve” a very small set of calculus problems.

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    • Replies: @International Jew

    They’re just memorizing a set of step-by-step procedures to “solve” a very small set of calculus problems.
     
    Exactly. If you can learn in 9th grade that y = x^2 - 3x + 2 crosses the x axis at 1 and 2, then three years later you can surely learn that the slope of that same function is 2x-3.
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  • The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"] says:
    @education realist
    What Americans think of as test prep and what Asians think of as test prep are entirely different things.

    Americans think of it as familiarity with the test, understanding of how it works. That kind of test prep will help most people a bit, some people a lot, some people not at all.

    Asians think of test prep as getting as many answers right as possible, ideally without any understanding of the underlying material necessary. That kind of test prep helps Asians with good memories come up with a test score with no relation to what Americans (not white people, mind you) would consider representative of their abilities.

    Incidentally, Kaplan test prep goes back well before the SAT, so those of you saying it didn't exist when you were kids are wrong.

    Another incidentally-whites are far less likely to get test prep than blacks or Asians, Hispanics only a bit more likely than whites. And given Asian preference for the SAT, they are almost certainly cheating, as well as gaming.

    Asians think of test prep as getting as many answers right as possible, ideally without any understanding of the underlying material necessary.

    When someone learns their multiplication tables does the same apply? That is the sort of familiarity with, say, integration techniques that comes of long practice mean that they are focused on getting as many answers correct without any understanding of the underlying principls?

    Does knowing how to ride a bike without knowing anything about things like angular momentum mean that you are just a fake? Does driving a car without knowing anything about the internal combustion engine or the computers in a car mean that you are trying to get as many answers right without any understanding of the underlying material?

    That kind of test prep helps Asians with good memories come up with a test score with no relation to what Americans (not white people, mind you) would consider representative of their abilities.

    I’m not Asian but know that first you have to learn a lot of what seems like useless facts before you can understand any of the underlying principles.

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  • @Luke Lea
    Nick Katz, a world-class mathematician at Princeton, got twin 650's on his SAT's back in 1960. Told me he thought that was good enough. How do you explain that?

    I took several classes from Nick Katz and maxed out my SATs. I assure you that he is much smarter than I am.

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  • I’ve always felt sorry for only children. Their children will have no cousins, aunts, uncles.

    On one side, that is. How common are double only-child marriages?

    You just described my stepfather’s situation, though. His dad was an only, and his mom’s one brother (his namesake) died as a young adult “without issue”. No aunts or (living) uncles.

    But he had cousins. Just not first.

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  • I’ve noticed that children from large families and from tightly knit extended families have far better social skills than people like me (grew up with one sibling and no nearby cousins).

    In the era of small families, girls who have a sister and female cousins seem better socialized than girls with brothers. Same with boys with brothers as opposed to boys with sisters.

    I’ve always felt sorry for only children. Their children will have no cousins, aunts, uncles.

    In this day and age, I think the more siblings and cousins you have the more privileged you are.

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  • The probability of entering and remaining in an intellectually elite profession such as Physician, Judge, Professor, Scientist, Corporate Executive, etc. increases with IQ to about 133. It then falls about 1/3 by 140. By 150 IQ the probability has fallen by 97%!

    http://michaelwferguson.blogspot.com/p/the-inappropriately-excluded-by-michael.html

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    • Replies: @Stan D Mute

    http://michaelwferguson.blogspot.com/p/the-inappropriately-excluded-by-michael.html
     
    This is due to boredom and disaffection with the process entirely. Kids at the extreme end of the bell curve don't fit in classes with their "peers" nor do they fit with classes of older kids when they skip grades. They can be very hard to teach as often they don't learn in the same manner the regular kids do. And of course perhaps worst of all is that they see directly through all the BS the schools and parents try to feed them.
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  • @education realist
    What Americans think of as test prep and what Asians think of as test prep are entirely different things.

    Americans think of it as familiarity with the test, understanding of how it works. That kind of test prep will help most people a bit, some people a lot, some people not at all.

    Asians think of test prep as getting as many answers right as possible, ideally without any understanding of the underlying material necessary. That kind of test prep helps Asians with good memories come up with a test score with no relation to what Americans (not white people, mind you) would consider representative of their abilities.

    Incidentally, Kaplan test prep goes back well before the SAT, so those of you saying it didn't exist when you were kids are wrong.

    Another incidentally-whites are far less likely to get test prep than blacks or Asians, Hispanics only a bit more likely than whites. And given Asian preference for the SAT, they are almost certainly cheating, as well as gaming.

    What Americans think of as test prep and what Asians think of as test prep are entirely different things.

    My “test prep” in the mid-’70s consisted of staying up till 3am listening to LPs with my new Koss headphones. (Like too many other school nights!)

    The brand-new chain bookstore– B Dalton or Walden, I forget– had a ceiling-to-floor bookcase of test-prep guides, but they were mostly for things like firefighter and refrigeration specialist exams, not aptitude tests. I didn’t see a need to “game” the SAT because it was already a game, like spending Saturday morning at the pinball arcade.

    I don’t know what formal prep would have done. My score got me into engineering school (2nd choice), and later Mensa. But that’s no good when your ADD percentile is just as high. I didn’t need an élite school, but a patient and forgiving one.

    My counselor was annoying, but she was probably on to something when she suggested I go to a 2-year state tech “starter” school despite the high scores. A gap year (who’d ever heard of that?) or going directly into the service would have been a smarter move.

    Sometimes your test score can be too high for your own good!

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    • Replies: @Stan D Mute

    and later Mensa
     
    Once in, did you see any point in sticking around? Or get booted for "acts inimical to Mensa"?
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  • It seems everyone assumes it is always an advantage to be an only child. I would disagree. What if your loving parents are not…loving, that is, and could give a shit.
    It is real easy to ignore one solitary kid, then browbeat and intimidate him because no one will confirm his suspicions. But siblings can back each other up.
    I don’t have any studies to cite but a therapist my wife knows says there are two kinds of only children…adored and ignored. The cliched view is the adored only child whose parents hang on her every breath. But there are many ignored only children who are sick to death of the cliched view being used to guilt trip them every chance society gets.

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  • @Desiderius

    It is nearly impossible to get a competitive score without doing this
     
    This is inaccurate. I do some part-time test-prep, and there are kids who come in acing the first practice test (mostly Asian these days) and others whose performance doesn't budge much at all despite all the prep in the world. You get the biggest bump from brightish kids with poor test-taking skills (time management, etc..) or from schools that haven't hit some of the content.

    I (public school kid) got a perfect ACT in the 80s and a couple of my friends were close without any prep. Today's test is more like the SAT but not substantially more difficult.

    You get the biggest bump from brightish kids with poor test-taking skills (time management, etc..)

    Yeah, from what I can tell, the most productive aspects of test prep involves stuff like:

    1.Time management: Don’t take too long on one question.

    2.Don’t overthink: This tends to happen with bright people.They read complexity into a question and trip themselves up

    3.Test anxiety: Again, something that tends to afflict the bright.

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  • @jjbees
    One example of this is the MCAT.

    This is the exam to get into medical school. To actually get in if you are white or asian, you need a score that is higher than 30. A 30 is ~80th percentile, and the people taking the test are generally college students and graduates who want to be doctors...the competition is pretty stiff.

    The key is test prep. Anyone who is "in the know" will spend a few thousand dollars on expensive test prep materials, and take a summer off to work on them. It is nearly impossible to get a competitive score without doing this.

    There are many intelligent, hard working proles who get straight A's in college but bomb the MCATs because they are not clever enough to figure out this is what they need to do. The corollary is also true, there are many elites with sub par GPAs who do understand this, do their test prep and pad their resumes, who succeed.

    The key is test prep. Anyone who is “in the know” will spend a few thousand dollars on expensive test prep materials, and take a summer off to work on them. It is nearly impossible to get a competitive score without doing this.

    That might be true for the MCAT (I never took it), but it is most definitely not true for, say, the GRE.As I mentioned elsewhere, my GRE prep involved taking a sample test once (98th percentile on the Verbal, 98th percentile on the subject), and then taking the test for real (98th percentile on the Verbal, 98th percentile on the subject).

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  • What Americans think of as test prep and what Asians think of as test prep are entirely different things.

    Americans think of it as familiarity with the test, understanding of how it works. That kind of test prep will help most people a bit, some people a lot, some people not at all.

    Asians think of test prep as getting as many answers right as possible, ideally without any understanding of the underlying material necessary. That kind of test prep helps Asians with good memories come up with a test score with no relation to what Americans (not white people, mind you) would consider representative of their abilities.

    Incidentally, Kaplan test prep goes back well before the SAT, so those of you saying it didn’t exist when you were kids are wrong.

    Another incidentally-whites are far less likely to get test prep than blacks or Asians, Hispanics only a bit more likely than whites. And given Asian preference for the SAT, they are almost certainly cheating, as well as gaming.

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    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    What Americans think of as test prep and what Asians think of as test prep are entirely different things.

     

    My "test prep" in the mid-'70s consisted of staying up till 3am listening to LPs with my new Koss headphones. (Like too many other school nights!)

    The brand-new chain bookstore-- B Dalton or Walden, I forget-- had a ceiling-to-floor bookcase of test-prep guides, but they were mostly for things like firefighter and refrigeration specialist exams, not aptitude tests. I didn't see a need to "game" the SAT because it was already a game, like spending Saturday morning at the pinball arcade.

    I don't know what formal prep would have done. My score got me into engineering school (2nd choice), and later Mensa. But that's no good when your ADD percentile is just as high. I didn't need an élite school, but a patient and forgiving one.

    My counselor was annoying, but she was probably on to something when she suggested I go to a 2-year state tech "starter" school despite the high scores. A gap year (who'd ever heard of that?) or going directly into the service would have been a smarter move.

    Sometimes your test score can be too high for your own good!
    , @The most deplorable one

    Asians think of test prep as getting as many answers right as possible, ideally without any understanding of the underlying material necessary.
     
    When someone learns their multiplication tables does the same apply? That is the sort of familiarity with, say, integration techniques that comes of long practice mean that they are focused on getting as many answers correct without any understanding of the underlying principls?

    Does knowing how to ride a bike without knowing anything about things like angular momentum mean that you are just a fake? Does driving a car without knowing anything about the internal combustion engine or the computers in a car mean that you are trying to get as many answers right without any understanding of the underlying material?

     That kind of test prep helps Asians with good memories come up with a test score with no relation to what Americans (not white people, mind you) would consider representative of their abilities.
     I'm not Asian but know that first you have to learn a lot of what seems like useless facts before you can understand any of the underlying principles.

    , @E. Rekshun
    Asians think of test prep as getting as many answers right as possible, ideally without any understanding of the underlying material necessary.

    Though it rarely happens, this is how the low-socioeconomic high-school students "learn" calculus. (Like the "true story" of those Hispanic students in "Stand and Deliver.") They're just memorizing a set of step-by-step procedures to "solve" a very small set of calculus problems.
    , @Twinkie

    Asians think of test prep as getting as many answers right as possible, ideally without any understanding of the underlying material necessary. That kind of test prep helps Asians with good memories come up with a test score with no relation to what Americans (not white people, mind you) would consider representative of their abilities.
     
    The quantitative portion of SAT is basically an IQ test. You can't memorize answers - you do have to understand "the underlying material." If one had sufficiently high enough IQ, one would figure out rather quickly that many questions seek answers that aren't being asked (e.g. selecting the right answer for a multi-digit multiplication, for which only the stupid would actually calculate the answer and burn up precious time instead of discarding those multiple choices with wrong last digits).

    The verbal portion, especially vocabulary-centric questions are based on memory - either reading a lot or memorizing words, their synonyms and anonyms, usually both (all language learning is necessity + repetition).

    If rote memorization helps anywhere it's the vocab section. Yet Asians do better on the quantitative section.

    And given Asian preference for the SAT, they are almost certainly cheating, as well as gaming.
     
    Give it a rest. Low IQ white nationalists/supremacists are already convinced by you (and don't require pesky things like evidence, which you refuse to provide; for them you only have to say "Asians cheat" or "I knew this Asian once and...") and high IQ HBD-types aren't buying the "I repeat it 1000 times so it must be true" routine. The latter require things like, I don't know, evidence (which you, extremely disingenuously, do not provide under the guise that you "don't have a 'proof' or anything" and that you are merely "raising questions."

    There are enough good reasons to oppose mass migration from Asia. You don't need to invent a fantasy excuse, just because you are resentful of kids who will amount to more than you did.
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