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    Disordered thoughts on the National Cockatoo’s latest antics. One: The aghastment and horrilation about the terrible, appalling, shocking etc nature of gas warfare is nonsense. There is nothing unusually hideous about the use of toxic chemicals. Hideous, yes, but not unusually hideous. Boring old workaday artillery, that nobody criticizes, leaves children watching as mommy frantically...
  • @Simply Simon
    JJ, I understand your anger, but I would be happy if just the major perps would be convicted. Sunday the Austin American-Statesman ran a comprehensive story commemorating the entire incident as it unfolded. Basically it was your Federal government at its worst. Yesterday the same paper ran an article concerning the lessons learned from that debacle, many years too late and millions of dollars too short. In the article one of the FBI agents there, now retired indicated he believed Hillary was the one who actually gave the go ahead to set fire to the compound.

    I would like every one of the the war criminals, from top to bottom, hanged.

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  • I got the opportunity to meet up with commenter AP this week. Had a very pleasant conversation with him, if a pretty short one as was necessitated by his busy schedule. I had been hoping to do a long post on my travels in Portugal, not nuclear war, this week. Will hopefully get that up...
  • Anon[198] • Disclaimer says:
    @Talha

    And the Tlaxcala liked the Spanish much better than the Aztecs.
     
    This is the plight of the little guy in history; find the better option for suzerainty.

    Since you bring up North Africa, ask the Berbers of Libya what they think of the Arab occupation?
     
    Historically - in that region, sometimes Berbers have had top-billing, sometimes Arabs. This is another issue that imported ethno-nationalism has brought up; "Libya is for Arabs" and other nonsense.

    There is no causal connection between straight lines and war.
     
    That wasn't my point. My point is that it is stupid to fight over and identify yourself over borders somebody else gave you.

    Case in point - the tribe of Bani Tamim has a tribal identity from before Islam - they straddle multiple nation-states across those straight line borders:
    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/30/Map_of_Arabia_600_AD.svg/400px-Map_of_Arabia_600_AD.svg.png

    Are they supposed to all of a sudden identity themselves as Saudi or Kuwaiti or Iraqi or Jordanian based on some lines some British and French guys drew up? And consider other tribe members as "the other"? Why? It's fine if they want to, but it's also obvious why they would reject it.

    Peace.

    That wasn’t my point. My point is that it is stupid to fight over and identify yourself over borders somebody else gave you.

    That’s a good point. It was originally badly expressed, and it masks the general truth that Syria, Mesopotamia, and so on (I was mostly thinking of those two, given the context here) are ancient civilizations and at least quasi-national identities, separated by oceans of sand where the precise point of a line doesn’t really mean all that much. That’s why I posted about the US, to get you to think a little; that’s the main reason I post at all these days, to try to put a new and startling perspective on things (that and that I get sucked into discussions– I just had a long and fruitless one over on Revusky’s article; I think I’ll just quit it at this point).

    Your point is much clearer now, but (or “and”, if you like) I would argue that if it were shortened as follows, it would be wrong:

    My point is that it is stupid to fight over and identify yourself over borders.

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  • Disordered thoughts on the National Cockatoo’s latest antics. One: The aghastment and horrilation about the terrible, appalling, shocking etc nature of gas warfare is nonsense. There is nothing unusually hideous about the use of toxic chemicals. Hideous, yes, but not unusually hideous. Boring old workaday artillery, that nobody criticizes, leaves children watching as mommy frantically...
  • anonymous[359] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dagon Shield
    JD, you are so smart and well read yet they have accused of being an Indian... there is no justice!

    you are so smart and well read yet they have accused of being an Indian

    I see what you did there with the implication of that statement.

    I wonder if any hindoo nationalist degenerate with a sufficiently seared butthole will respond to that.

    :D

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  • anonymous[359] • Disclaimer says:
    @jim jones
    I am going to enjoy reading Unz the day after Trump gets the Nobel Peace Prize for uniting Korea

    That would be further proof of the Evil Empire’s imminent demise. So, witnessing satan’s pussy slink away with its tail between its legs, should be something to rejoice.

    I am all for Trump getting the Hypocrites, er I mean nobel, Peace Prize.

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  • anonymous[359] • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Gittelson
    Goad is a vassal of TakiMag. Cutting and pasting from one webzine to another is considered gauche, if not outright illegal for various and sundry copyright reasons.

    Unz is an okay guy, and reasonably restrained with regard to the multitude of crazies who use his comment-sections for, sometimes, rather wackadoodley semi-hysterical ranting.

    Busy, busy, busy in the Vonnegutian sense.

    with regard to the multitude of crazies who use his comment-sections for, sometimes, rather wackadoodley semi-hysterical ranting.

    I do it all the time. That is what I love about The UR. :D

    See, it is one thing to be armchair crazies, generally quite harmless, just venting our feelings, than be the crazy racist mofers of your kind, who in stark contrast commit satanic evil, causing untold suffering to real people.

    Can your despicable self understand that basic difference?

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  • @Pat Kittle
    Saddam was falsely accused of (specified) "WMD's" -- AND killing Kuwaiti babies.

    But most of all, Saddam was the "New Hitler!!" -- so we urgently had to save the poor Jews from another Holocau$t.

    Without missing a beat, Qaddafi became the next "New Hitler!!"

    And now Assad is the "New Hitler!!"

    "New Hitlers!!" everywhere, it seems -- everywhere Israel orders the goyim to fight its wars.

    Ahmadinejad was the "New Hitler!!"

    Rouhani is the new "New Hitler!!"

    Kim Song Un is the "New Hitler!!"

    Putin is the "New Hitler!!"

    Oy, it's anudda Shoah!!

    Please do us all a favour and rememeber to take your meds tommorow

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  • @SunBakedSuburb
    "... Russia and China have adult leadership."

    They are also non-democratic, authoritarian regimes.

    "By contrast, Trump is a loon, ignorant of practically everything, mentally chaotic, and easily modified."

    That's all true, especially the last bit. But give the Orange One some credit: he was a wrecking ball to the stagnant, hideous Clinton and Bush dynasties. He has also driven the DC establishment and media insane. Pure schadenfreude.

    Yup, regardless of what Trump does or doesn’t do, he has completely outed the globalist cabal and uniparty system.

    To be honest I’m not sure that he even knew why he had such a following. He does not seem like the most thoughtful man. He saw the crowds with thousands of Americans cheering his message, so he kept repeating it. He might not have seen himself in the same way that we “conspiracy theorists” did. So he’s confused and doesn’t see how he’s letting us down.

    Trump did the first bit, and quite frankly it’s up to the people whether or not our society will survive. Trump was a great push through the barriers, and it’s up to us to continue.

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    • Agree: Bill Jones
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  • @EliteCommInc.
    The British are coming . . . .

    It’s OK if you don’t have a privately controlled central bank…

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  • @Pat Kittle
    Saddam was falsely accused of (specified) "WMD's" -- AND killing Kuwaiti babies.

    But most of all, Saddam was the "New Hitler!!" -- so we urgently had to save the poor Jews from another Holocau$t.

    Without missing a beat, Qaddafi became the next "New Hitler!!"

    And now Assad is the "New Hitler!!"

    "New Hitlers!!" everywhere, it seems -- everywhere Israel orders the goyim to fight its wars.

    Ahmadinejad was the "New Hitler!!"

    Rouhani is the new "New Hitler!!"

    Kim Song Un is the "New Hitler!!"

    Putin is the "New Hitler!!"

    Oy, it's anudda Shoah!!

    Saddam was falsely accused of (specified) “WMD’s”

    Great post, but not to be too pedantic, my post was meant to clarify that the WMD lie was used against Saddam during Gulf War II, not I.

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  • One small quibble Fred, Iraq, Iran, Turkey, Syria, and even brave little Israel the most wonderfulest country in the whole wide world (gag), are all Asian nations. So who cares if they “go with Asia”?

    Let the Chinese, Russians, and the Hindoos in India fight over the Middle East.

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  • @Johann
    I bin einverstanden .... “the catcher on the rye” has got to be the biggest fraud ever pulled on the so called literate America A story about a smarmy rich preppie and his angst was just so much dribble on the reading public. Then the/morons who teach in our public schools foisted this crap on the youth of America . Kein wunder that Salinger spent the rest of his life in seclusion ; he must have been ashamed .

    Kein wunder that Salinger spent the rest of his life in seclusion ; he must have been ashamed .

    I remember the gushing by teachers over its “deep relevance” to “today’s alienated youth”. A boatload, if not a shipload.

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  • @MikeatMikedotMike
    Hi Steve,

    Channel Z was a disqus channel (the same mod, a female, had another channel but I forget what it was called) that I received an invite to from taki commenter WhereAreTheVikings. Seemed like a good thing at first, so I posted a link to Goad's TWTP'd a few Sundays ago, and the mod flushed it and all the comments. She was also deleting other posts, and lots of the comments, then when commenters protested, and they were all deleted and or banned.

    I agree with with you on the comments though, and yeah, I don't twitter. I've been lurking around Unz for over a year maybe, but I don't comment too often. Much of the comment content is as good as the articles here, so I'll look out for you and the other former taki vets.

    [email protected]

    Channel Z was a disqus channel (the same mod, a female, had another channel but I forget what it was called) that I received an invite to from taki commenter WhereAreTheVikings.

    Oh, got it now. WATV is a bit midwestern schoolmarm of 1890. Nice person, deep down, I am sure, but I wouldn’t follow her anywhere.

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  • @Steve Gittelson
    Vonnegut was an honorable man, and good writer. Salinger was a hack.

    I bin einverstanden …. “the catcher on the rye” has got to be the biggest fraud ever pulled on the so called literate America A story about a smarmy rich preppie and his angst was just so much dribble on the reading public. Then the/morons who teach in our public schools foisted this crap on the youth of America . Kein wunder that Salinger spent the rest of his life in seclusion ; he must have been ashamed .

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Gittelson

    Kein wunder that Salinger spent the rest of his life in seclusion ; he must have been ashamed .
     
    I remember the gushing by teachers over its "deep relevance" to "today's alienated youth". A boatload, if not a shipload.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • I got the opportunity to meet up with commenter AP this week. Had a very pleasant conversation with him, if a pretty short one as was necessitated by his busy schedule. I had been hoping to do a long post on my travels in Portugal, not nuclear war, this week. Will hopefully get that up...
  • @anon
    Colonization of Mars is science fiction, only without any science. We evolved to live on Earth, in 1g gravity.

    http://academicvc.com/2015/09/09/why-we-cant-go-to-mars

    http://www.stephenfleming.net/files/Fleming_DragonCon_Mars_v6.pdf

    Most of Mars’ immediate issues can be resolved by restoring the magnetic field, which is entirely possible. This gets rid of space particles, etc and will allow for the accumulation of an atmosphere.

    https://www.sciencealert.com/nasa-wants-to-launch-a-giant-magnetic-shield-to-make-mars-habitable

    The microgravity issue is by far more serious and close to “unresolveable” but we already have some solutions for it at the moment. In the long run, I think that its possible to genetically engineer for it, among other solutions.

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  • Disordered thoughts on the National Cockatoo’s latest antics. One: The aghastment and horrilation about the terrible, appalling, shocking etc nature of gas warfare is nonsense. There is nothing unusually hideous about the use of toxic chemicals. Hideous, yes, but not unusually hideous. Boring old workaday artillery, that nobody criticizes, leaves children watching as mommy frantically...
  • @Steve Gittelson

    I tried to use that Channel Z to link to Taki’s articels in the waki of him closing comments, so the usual suspects could continue the conversation. The Channel Z mod deleted the whole post, that had already garnered 100 or so comments, and gave me a snarky explanation for it. I have yet to return.
     
    Hi, Dot Mike. How's it been hanging?

    I don't know what Channel Z is. I have a tendency to avoid Inet shit that is obviously based in Millennial developments post-plain vanilla text-based forums that require some modicum of intelligence from posters. That's just me, and I am one of those horrible meanies who thinks comments should make sense, be sensibly organized to some degree, be grammatically comprehensible, and not diverge into video and links to alien visitor websites. This means I think Twitter is for morons who follow and worship celebrity-think.

    Stick around. Some of UR's stuff is good, sometimes. IMO, it's way too "busy", way too much content on the front page, way too many trivialities, but Unz probably has good motives.

    Hi Steve,

    Channel Z was a disqus channel (the same mod, a female, had another channel but I forget what it was called) that I received an invite to from taki commenter WhereAreTheVikings. Seemed like a good thing at first, so I posted a link to Goad’s TWTP’d a few Sundays ago, and the mod flushed it and all the comments. She was also deleting other posts, and lots of the comments, then when commenters protested, and they were all deleted and or banned.

    I agree with with you on the comments though, and yeah, I don’t twitter. I’ve been lurking around Unz for over a year maybe, but I don’t comment too often. Much of the comment content is as good as the articles here, so I’ll look out for you and the other former taki vets.

    [email protected]

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Gittelson

    Channel Z was a disqus channel (the same mod, a female, had another channel but I forget what it was called) that I received an invite to from taki commenter WhereAreTheVikings.
     
    Oh, got it now. WATV is a bit midwestern schoolmarm of 1890. Nice person, deep down, I am sure, but I wouldn't follow her anywhere.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @geokat62

    Note that Washington has a history of lying the country into wars. The Maine in 1898, the Gulf of Tonkin, the imaginary WMD in Gulf I.
     
    I thought Gulf I was fought over the lies that Saddam's forces were killing little babies in Kuwaiti hospitals?

    Saddam was falsely accused of (specified) “WMD’s” — AND killing Kuwaiti babies.

    But most of all, Saddam was the “New Hitler!!” — so we urgently had to save the poor Jews from another Holocau$t.

    Without missing a beat, Qaddafi became the next “New Hitler!!”

    And now Assad is the “New Hitler!!”

    “New Hitlers!!” everywhere, it seems — everywhere Israel orders the goyim to fight its wars.

    Ahmadinejad was the “New Hitler!!”

    Rouhani is the new “New Hitler!!”

    Kim Song Un is the “New Hitler!!”

    Putin is the “New Hitler!!”

    Oy, it’s anudda Shoah!!

    Read More
    • Replies: @geokat62

    Saddam was falsely accused of (specified) “WMD’s”
     
    Great post, but not to be too pedantic, my post was meant to clarify that the WMD lie was used against Saddam during Gulf War II, not I.
    , @UrbaneFrancoOntarian
    Please do us all a favour and rememeber to take your meds tommorow
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • I wonder how much of the public’s alarm whenever Anthrax is mentioned comes from the fact that it’s also the name of a popular 80’s thrash metal band. Hence, it must be really sinister.

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  • Pretty silly based on WWI experience and later treaties.

    Obviously the author is just wallpaper with nothing of sense to add, except as filler.

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  • @Bardon Kaldian

    Notice that Taki put up a Coulter column? That’s a red flag that TakiMag already feels the impact of comment-closure. I also am inclined to wonder who that chick-hating doofuss, DeGroot, is related to? Must be someone on the Israeli side of Theodoracopulos’ cousins.
     
    Haven't seen Coulter, but Taki's flavor was culture & politics & social commentary. Not just politics & not just a few obsessive themes (IQ, JQ, black crime,..).

    DeGroot...I mostly skipped his contributions. Be as it may, Taki's was different, rather different from unz.com (which is about politics, conspiracies & fringe ideas); or American Renaissance (which is mostly about color of crime & IQ). Other similar sites have too much traffic or are way too loony...

    Haven’t seen Coulter, but Taki’s flavor was culture & politics & social commentary.

    Yes, there is a Coulter column, now scrolled-past the top-clicker, but visible down the page. A startling contrast to the DeGroot dreck posted the same day. Surprised me, because Annie demands money for those columns, no fooling. Or, maybe she gave it away as a marketing lead. Dunno.

    Yeh, any presence of anti-Deep State websites is fading fast, or mostly redirected to a handful of loony bins, or hyper-religious wackos like the AR crowd.

    A corollary to Goebbel’s “Big Lie” theory is that small lies must be repeated just as often as the big ones. No opposition momentum must ever be allowed to form.

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  • Far more palatable than your constant immigration advocacy.

    No doubt we have needlessly violated the sovereignty of numerous states and need to stop.

    But in this Pres trump is buy a minor player, perhaps even a reluctant player save for the sword dangling above his head and a desire to be seen as humanitarian hero. I prefer he start at home.

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  • “… Russia and China have adult leadership.”

    They are also non-democratic, authoritarian regimes.

    “By contrast, Trump is a loon, ignorant of practically everything, mentally chaotic, and easily modified.”

    That’s all true, especially the last bit. But give the Orange One some credit: he was a wrecking ball to the stagnant, hideous Clinton and Bush dynasties. He has also driven the DC establishment and media insane. Pure schadenfreude.

    Read More
    • Replies: @UrbaneFrancoOntarian
    Yup, regardless of what Trump does or doesn't do, he has completely outed the globalist cabal and uniparty system.

    To be honest I'm not sure that he even knew why he had such a following. He does not seem like the most thoughtful man. He saw the crowds with thousands of Americans cheering his message, so he kept repeating it. He might not have seen himself in the same way that we "conspiracy theorists" did. So he's confused and doesn't see how he's letting us down.

    Trump did the first bit, and quite frankly it's up to the people whether or not our society will survive. Trump was a great push through the barriers, and it's up to us to continue.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Logan
    What were the lies involved in the War of 1812?

    The British are coming . . . .

    Read More
    • Replies: @James Forrestal
    It's OK if you don't have a privately controlled central bank...
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @MikeatMikedotMike
    I tried to use that Channel Z to link to Taki's articels in the waki of him closing comments, so the usual suspects could continue the conversation. The Channel Z mod deleted the whole post, that had already garnered 100 or so comments, and gave me a snarky explanation for it. I have yet to return.

    I tried to use that Channel Z to link to Taki’s articels in the waki of him closing comments, so the usual suspects could continue the conversation. The Channel Z mod deleted the whole post, that had already garnered 100 or so comments, and gave me a snarky explanation for it. I have yet to return.

    Hi, Dot Mike. How’s it been hanging?

    I don’t know what Channel Z is. I have a tendency to avoid Inet shit that is obviously based in Millennial developments post-plain vanilla text-based forums that require some modicum of intelligence from posters. That’s just me, and I am one of those horrible meanies who thinks comments should make sense, be sensibly organized to some degree, be grammatically comprehensible, and not diverge into video and links to alien visitor websites. This means I think Twitter is for morons who follow and worship celebrity-think.

    Stick around. Some of UR’s stuff is good, sometimes. IMO, it’s way too “busy”, way too much content on the front page, way too many trivialities, but Unz probably has good motives.

    Read More
    • Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike
    Hi Steve,

    Channel Z was a disqus channel (the same mod, a female, had another channel but I forget what it was called) that I received an invite to from taki commenter WhereAreTheVikings. Seemed like a good thing at first, so I posted a link to Goad's TWTP'd a few Sundays ago, and the mod flushed it and all the comments. She was also deleting other posts, and lots of the comments, then when commenters protested, and they were all deleted and or banned.

    I agree with with you on the comments though, and yeah, I don't twitter. I've been lurking around Unz for over a year maybe, but I don't comment too often. Much of the comment content is as good as the articles here, so I'll look out for you and the other former taki vets.

    [email protected]
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Steve Gittelson

    Since dissolution of Takitariat, I’ve been to Taki’s perhaps 3-4 times. Didn’t even bother to read anything.

    I guess there will be a diminished readership for a time & it will all, eventually, die out. Without comments, this is not too interesting a place…
     
    I may yet put up an online forum that enables comments directly to TakiMag articles in a "parallel window" mode. At the moment, I am working on something revenue-generating in nature, which takes precedence over providing a new forum for TakiMag's crazies, so that will wait.

    Notice that Taki put up a Coulter column? That's a red flag that TakiMag already feels the impact of comment-closure. I also am inclined to wonder who that chick-hating doofuss, DeGroot, is related to? Must be someone on the Israeli side of Theodoracopulos' cousins.

    Notice that Taki put up a Coulter column? That’s a red flag that TakiMag already feels the impact of comment-closure. I also am inclined to wonder who that chick-hating doofuss, DeGroot, is related to? Must be someone on the Israeli side of Theodoracopulos’ cousins.

    Haven’t seen Coulter, but Taki’s flavor was culture & politics & social commentary. Not just politics & not just a few obsessive themes (IQ, JQ, black crime,..).

    DeGroot…I mostly skipped his contributions. Be as it may, Taki’s was different, rather different from unz.com (which is about politics, conspiracies & fringe ideas); or American Renaissance (which is mostly about color of crime & IQ). Other similar sites have too much traffic or are way too loony…

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Gittelson

    Haven’t seen Coulter, but Taki’s flavor was culture & politics & social commentary.
     
    Yes, there is a Coulter column, now scrolled-past the top-clicker, but visible down the page. A startling contrast to the DeGroot dreck posted the same day. Surprised me, because Annie demands money for those columns, no fooling. Or, maybe she gave it away as a marketing lead. Dunno.

    Yeh, any presence of anti-Deep State websites is fading fast, or mostly redirected to a handful of loony bins, or hyper-religious wackos like the AR crowd.

    A corollary to Goebbel's "Big Lie" theory is that small lies must be repeated just as often as the big ones. No opposition momentum must ever be allowed to form.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Steve Gittelson

    Since dissolution of Takitariat, I’ve been to Taki’s perhaps 3-4 times. Didn’t even bother to read anything.

    I guess there will be a diminished readership for a time & it will all, eventually, die out. Without comments, this is not too interesting a place…
     
    I may yet put up an online forum that enables comments directly to TakiMag articles in a "parallel window" mode. At the moment, I am working on something revenue-generating in nature, which takes precedence over providing a new forum for TakiMag's crazies, so that will wait.

    Notice that Taki put up a Coulter column? That's a red flag that TakiMag already feels the impact of comment-closure. I also am inclined to wonder who that chick-hating doofuss, DeGroot, is related to? Must be someone on the Israeli side of Theodoracopulos' cousins.

    I tried to use that Channel Z to link to Taki’s articels in the waki of him closing comments, so the usual suspects could continue the conversation. The Channel Z mod deleted the whole post, that had already garnered 100 or so comments, and gave me a snarky explanation for it. I have yet to return.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Gittelson

    I tried to use that Channel Z to link to Taki’s articels in the waki of him closing comments, so the usual suspects could continue the conversation. The Channel Z mod deleted the whole post, that had already garnered 100 or so comments, and gave me a snarky explanation for it. I have yet to return.
     
    Hi, Dot Mike. How's it been hanging?

    I don't know what Channel Z is. I have a tendency to avoid Inet shit that is obviously based in Millennial developments post-plain vanilla text-based forums that require some modicum of intelligence from posters. That's just me, and I am one of those horrible meanies who thinks comments should make sense, be sensibly organized to some degree, be grammatically comprehensible, and not diverge into video and links to alien visitor websites. This means I think Twitter is for morons who follow and worship celebrity-think.

    Stick around. Some of UR's stuff is good, sometimes. IMO, it's way too "busy", way too much content on the front page, way too many trivialities, but Unz probably has good motives.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Bardon Kaldian
    Since dissolution of Takitariat, I've been to Taki's perhaps 3-4 times. Didn't even bother to read anything.

    I guess there will be a diminished readership for a time & it will all, eventually, die out. Without comments, this is not too interesting a place...

    Since dissolution of Takitariat, I’ve been to Taki’s perhaps 3-4 times. Didn’t even bother to read anything.

    I guess there will be a diminished readership for a time & it will all, eventually, die out. Without comments, this is not too interesting a place…

    I may yet put up an online forum that enables comments directly to TakiMag articles in a “parallel window” mode. At the moment, I am working on something revenue-generating in nature, which takes precedence over providing a new forum for TakiMag’s crazies, so that will wait.

    Notice that Taki put up a Coulter column? That’s a red flag that TakiMag already feels the impact of comment-closure. I also am inclined to wonder who that chick-hating doofuss, DeGroot, is related to? Must be someone on the Israeli side of Theodoracopulos’ cousins.

    Read More
    • Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike
    I tried to use that Channel Z to link to Taki's articels in the waki of him closing comments, so the usual suspects could continue the conversation. The Channel Z mod deleted the whole post, that had already garnered 100 or so comments, and gave me a snarky explanation for it. I have yet to return.
    , @Bardon Kaldian

    Notice that Taki put up a Coulter column? That’s a red flag that TakiMag already feels the impact of comment-closure. I also am inclined to wonder who that chick-hating doofuss, DeGroot, is related to? Must be someone on the Israeli side of Theodoracopulos’ cousins.
     
    Haven't seen Coulter, but Taki's flavor was culture & politics & social commentary. Not just politics & not just a few obsessive themes (IQ, JQ, black crime,..).

    DeGroot...I mostly skipped his contributions. Be as it may, Taki's was different, rather different from unz.com (which is about politics, conspiracies & fringe ideas); or American Renaissance (which is mostly about color of crime & IQ). Other similar sites have too much traffic or are way too loony...
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Logan
    You have a good point about the criticism of Jews.

    Used to comment some at Taki, and some of the postsdid indeed blame the Jews for everything imaginable and some things that weren't imaginable.

    However, your other remark is also appropriate.

    A year or so ago I remarked on a website about the odd issue of Jews leading the fight against "white privilege." I hunted down Jewish/Gentile statistics and compared them to the similar black/white statistics that are commonly used to prove the existence of white privilege. I noted that these statistics showed pretty clearly that Jewish Privilege is much stronger than White Privilege. (Assuming one accepts such statistics as relevant, as the White Privilege denouncers normally do.)

    Oh my word! Hysterics ensued.

    I am not in the least anti-Semitic, but I am also not blind. Clearly many (most?) Jews do not think the rules they impose on others should be applied to them. For instance, if it is unfair for any (prestigious) occupation to be held by whites above their proportion of the population, it is equally unfair for Jews to disproportionately occupy those positions. I was not even objecting to the fact of this disproportion, but rather to the hypocrisy of differential application of what are purportedly universal rules.

    Never did get a rational response to my post, only hysterical denunciation.

    Since dissolution of Takitariat, I’ve been to Taki’s perhaps 3-4 times. Didn’t even bother to read anything.

    I guess there will be a diminished readership for a time & it will all, eventually, die out. Without comments, this is not too interesting a place…

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Gittelson

    Since dissolution of Takitariat, I’ve been to Taki’s perhaps 3-4 times. Didn’t even bother to read anything.

    I guess there will be a diminished readership for a time & it will all, eventually, die out. Without comments, this is not too interesting a place…
     
    I may yet put up an online forum that enables comments directly to TakiMag articles in a "parallel window" mode. At the moment, I am working on something revenue-generating in nature, which takes precedence over providing a new forum for TakiMag's crazies, so that will wait.

    Notice that Taki put up a Coulter column? That's a red flag that TakiMag already feels the impact of comment-closure. I also am inclined to wonder who that chick-hating doofuss, DeGroot, is related to? Must be someone on the Israeli side of Theodoracopulos' cousins.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Thorfinnsson
    At this stage in the game I'm not one to ramble about "3D Chess", but I get the sense that Trump's tweeting was intended to warn Putin and thus deescalate. Of course on the flip side we have (uncomfirmed) reports that Trump and his bloodthirsty NSC chair Fox Bolton were arguing for a bigger attack than the generals would agree to.

    If nothing else it's quite clear that any effort to withdraw from Syria simply immediately results in a false flag attack. Even if chemical weapons were as awful as is supposed (I agree with Mr. Reed), that doesn't make it relevant to American interests.

    The strangest thing with Syria is how obsessed the Empire is with destroying it. Various reasons are given such as Israel, gas pipelines, and containing Iran. At the end of the day I think it's primarily psychological. The Empire is outraged that the Assman dares to resist.`

    The entire ‘horrors of gassing’ canard is based upon the fake & impossible ‘Nazi gas chambers’.
    The alleged & impossible ‘Nazi gas chambers’ simply could not have done what is alleged, in fact the claims are laughable.
    recommended:
    - For a thorough demolition of the alleged Auschwitz gas chambers & alleged Auschwitz homicidal gassing process see analysis at:

    http://forum.codoh.com/search.php?keywords=model&t=10798&sf=msgonly

    and:
    - The Auschwitz “Gas Chamber” Illusion by Nicholas Kollerstrom

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9689

    view:
    Chemistry of Auschwitz / Birkenau

    “It is dangerous to be right in matters where established men are wrong.”
    - Voltaire

    The ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
    see the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

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  • @Logan
    You have a good point about the criticism of Jews.

    Used to comment some at Taki, and some of the postsdid indeed blame the Jews for everything imaginable and some things that weren't imaginable.

    However, your other remark is also appropriate.

    A year or so ago I remarked on a website about the odd issue of Jews leading the fight against "white privilege." I hunted down Jewish/Gentile statistics and compared them to the similar black/white statistics that are commonly used to prove the existence of white privilege. I noted that these statistics showed pretty clearly that Jewish Privilege is much stronger than White Privilege. (Assuming one accepts such statistics as relevant, as the White Privilege denouncers normally do.)

    Oh my word! Hysterics ensued.

    I am not in the least anti-Semitic, but I am also not blind. Clearly many (most?) Jews do not think the rules they impose on others should be applied to them. For instance, if it is unfair for any (prestigious) occupation to be held by whites above their proportion of the population, it is equally unfair for Jews to disproportionately occupy those positions. I was not even objecting to the fact of this disproportion, but rather to the hypocrisy of differential application of what are purportedly universal rules.

    Never did get a rational response to my post, only hysterical denunciation.

    Never did get a rational response to my post, only hysterical denunciation.

    That’s all you will ever get from Jews, unless you become sufficiently troublesome that you must be dealt with through control of your employer or local government.

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  • @Anon
    (different anon)

    not because a megalomaniac like Hitler thought my gracious, chemical warfare is just too cruel to inflict on my enemies
     
    It was and is widely thought to be unethical, probably because it is like a poison. It was quite effective in limited scenarios, which is why it was used in WWI and why the British seem to have used it in Iraq. Hitler actually did make some attempt to follow international rules of war, which is why the Blitz was not until after the British had bombed Berlin.

    The British bombed many German civilian cities/towns before they bombed Berlin … long before Germany was forced to retaliate.
    see:

    Who started bombing civilians first:Germany or Great Britain

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=8172

    http://www.codoh.com

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  • @Toynbee
    Excuse me, but Toynbee reads very well, thank you.

    Excuse me, but Toynbee reads very well, thank you.

    So does Heinlein’s I Will Fear No Evil.

    See what I did there? ;-)

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  • @jilles dykstra
    What about animal Churchill ?
    He defended the use of gas in by him Damascus in 1918 in the British parliament.

    Do animals know right from wrong?

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  • @jim jones
    I am going to enjoy reading Unz the day after Trump gets the Nobel Peace Prize for uniting Korea

    They will find a way to deny it…

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  • @jilles dykstra
    " even the perfidious Yanks couldn’t force her to behave with such reckless idiocy in the Pacific. "
    Read
    William L. Neumann, ‘America encounters Japan, From Perry to MacArthur’, 1963, 1965, New York
    Yukichi Fukuzawa, 'De poorten gaan open', 1978 Amsterdam (The Autobiography of Fukuzawa Yukichi, Tokyo 1934, 1899)
    Lt.-Comdr. Tóta Ishimaru, I.J.N., 'Japan must fight Britain', written in 1935, UK 1937
    Japan, one of the USA's sorcerer apprentices.
    Some others: Saddam, the present Iranian regime, North Korea, ISIS.

    JD, you are so smart and well read yet they have accused of being an Indian… there is no justice!

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    • Replies: @anonymous

    you are so smart and well read yet they have accused of being an Indian
     
    I see what you did there with the implication of that statement.

    I wonder if any hindoo nationalist degenerate with a sufficiently seared butthole will respond to that.

    :D
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  • The gas attack was a false flag by the white helmets who are working for the U.S. and ISRAEL and BRITAIN, Assad has never gassed his people, and no one was killed in this latest fake attack, this was used as a catalyst to get the U.S. to attack Syria again.

    The U.S has no legal right to be in Syria and had no legal right to bomb and invade Afghanistan and Iraq and Syria and Yemen and the dozens of other countries where the zionist controlled U.S. gov has gone to war illegally on behalf of the Zionist controlled MIC and the zionist controlled banks, all wars are banker wars.

    Read THE PROTOCOLS OF ZION to see what the zionists have done and are doing in their drive for a zionist NWO.

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  • @Thorfinnsson
    At this stage in the game I'm not one to ramble about "3D Chess", but I get the sense that Trump's tweeting was intended to warn Putin and thus deescalate. Of course on the flip side we have (uncomfirmed) reports that Trump and his bloodthirsty NSC chair Fox Bolton were arguing for a bigger attack than the generals would agree to.

    If nothing else it's quite clear that any effort to withdraw from Syria simply immediately results in a false flag attack. Even if chemical weapons were as awful as is supposed (I agree with Mr. Reed), that doesn't make it relevant to American interests.

    The strangest thing with Syria is how obsessed the Empire is with destroying it. Various reasons are given such as Israel, gas pipelines, and containing Iran. At the end of the day I think it's primarily psychological. The Empire is outraged that the Assman dares to resist.`

    At least, on the subject of Empire, the fools here won’t accuse of being an Indian!

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  • Note that Washington has a history of lying the country into wars. The Maine in 1898, the Gulf of Tonkin, the imaginary WMD in Gulf I.

    I thought Gulf I was fought over the lies that Saddam’s forces were killing little babies in Kuwaiti hospitals?

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    • Replies: @Pat Kittle
    Saddam was falsely accused of (specified) "WMD's" -- AND killing Kuwaiti babies.

    But most of all, Saddam was the "New Hitler!!" -- so we urgently had to save the poor Jews from another Holocau$t.

    Without missing a beat, Qaddafi became the next "New Hitler!!"

    And now Assad is the "New Hitler!!"

    "New Hitlers!!" everywhere, it seems -- everywhere Israel orders the goyim to fight its wars.

    Ahmadinejad was the "New Hitler!!"

    Rouhani is the new "New Hitler!!"

    Kim Song Un is the "New Hitler!!"

    Putin is the "New Hitler!!"

    Oy, it's anudda Shoah!!

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  • This is the first time, or at least, the first time I’ve noticed, that this author has gone for out-and-out pro-Putin propaganda. That said, he doesn’t say anything new. It’s just the umpteenth rendition of the standard line.

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  • @Pat Kittle
    Thanks, I'm familiar with Jim Goad from TakiMag (which banned me years ago).

    Recently (as you likely know) all commenters (& all their previous comments) are banned from TakiMag -- allegedly because some criticized Jews:
    -- [ http://takimag.com/article/gag_reflex#axzz5D9nCpS6k ].

    A favorite straw-man refrain from Jewish censors everywhere:

    "Oh, just blame da Joos for everything -- meteors, hurricanes..."

    As we know, few blame Jews for EVERYTHING -- the goal of Jewish censors is to ban criticism of Jews for ANYTHING.

    Anyway, Goad might be a good fit here at Unz, joining other TakiMag columnists already here.

    Unz is my #1 go-to website. Thanks, Ron.

    By the way. Pat, I love Goad’s writing, a friend introduced me to Answer Me, she had the first three, I have the compendium of those, want to buy the rape issue, too.

    He is also something of a hypocrite on two important points.

    Vigorously pushing anti-birth ideas for years, then crowing about it when he fnally found a woman to make a child with him, almost too late.

    The other, getting a nose-job after confirming that he is not, as he liked to imagine for some time, Jewish.

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  • “The reason we still have ‘wars’ is that we made ‘rules’ for war.”

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  • @Pat Kittle
    Thanks, I'm familiar with Jim Goad from TakiMag (which banned me years ago).

    Recently (as you likely know) all commenters (& all their previous comments) are banned from TakiMag -- allegedly because some criticized Jews:
    -- [ http://takimag.com/article/gag_reflex#axzz5D9nCpS6k ].

    A favorite straw-man refrain from Jewish censors everywhere:

    "Oh, just blame da Joos for everything -- meteors, hurricanes..."

    As we know, few blame Jews for EVERYTHING -- the goal of Jewish censors is to ban criticism of Jews for ANYTHING.

    Anyway, Goad might be a good fit here at Unz, joining other TakiMag columnists already here.

    Unz is my #1 go-to website. Thanks, Ron.

    Taki has recently removed the comments sections from the articles on Taki’s Magazine. Replaced by a ‘Letters to the Editors’ system.

    Considering the idiocy of posters there ‘Hey, first to post. Aren’t I great.’, then a discussion of that at the start of most comment threads on the site, it is seeming logical.

    Don’t get that kind of idiocy here, although numbers of comment posts explode whenever Mr. Unz is to publish or re-publish anything critical of Israel. Certain other subjects.

    Goad is the lynch-pin of Taki’s magazine, McInnes may have contributed a little to The Week that Perished, at times, but since his departure, it is all Jim Goad.

    Doubt the latter would be interested in being re-published here.

    Anyway, Mr. Unz is making a good selection in general.

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  • @Thorfinnsson
    Would you prefer "Animal Assad" (not bad honestly if inaccurate) or "Gas Killing Animal"?

    I'm quite pleased with myself for the Assman coinage.

    What about animal Churchill ?
    He defended the use of gas in by him Damascus in 1918 in the British parliament.

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    • Replies: @Dagon Shield
    Do animals know right from wrong?
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  • How do you bomb a trade agreement?

    They are working on it Fred.

    Count on it.

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  • @Pat Kittle
    Thanks, I'm familiar with Jim Goad from TakiMag (which banned me years ago).

    Recently (as you likely know) all commenters (& all their previous comments) are banned from TakiMag -- allegedly because some criticized Jews:
    -- [ http://takimag.com/article/gag_reflex#axzz5D9nCpS6k ].

    A favorite straw-man refrain from Jewish censors everywhere:

    "Oh, just blame da Joos for everything -- meteors, hurricanes..."

    As we know, few blame Jews for EVERYTHING -- the goal of Jewish censors is to ban criticism of Jews for ANYTHING.

    Anyway, Goad might be a good fit here at Unz, joining other TakiMag columnists already here.

    Unz is my #1 go-to website. Thanks, Ron.

    You have a good point about the criticism of Jews.

    Used to comment some at Taki, and some of the postsdid indeed blame the Jews for everything imaginable and some things that weren’t imaginable.

    However, your other remark is also appropriate.

    A year or so ago I remarked on a website about the odd issue of Jews leading the fight against “white privilege.” I hunted down Jewish/Gentile statistics and compared them to the similar black/white statistics that are commonly used to prove the existence of white privilege. I noted that these statistics showed pretty clearly that Jewish Privilege is much stronger than White Privilege. (Assuming one accepts such statistics as relevant, as the White Privilege denouncers normally do.)

    Oh my word! Hysterics ensued.

    I am not in the least anti-Semitic, but I am also not blind. Clearly many (most?) Jews do not think the rules they impose on others should be applied to them. For instance, if it is unfair for any (prestigious) occupation to be held by whites above their proportion of the population, it is equally unfair for Jews to disproportionately occupy those positions. I was not even objecting to the fact of this disproportion, but rather to the hypocrisy of differential application of what are purportedly universal rules.

    Never did get a rational response to my post, only hysterical denunciation.

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    • Replies: @Steve Gittelson

    Never did get a rational response to my post, only hysterical denunciation.
     
    That's all you will ever get from Jews, unless you become sufficiently troublesome that you must be dealt with through control of your employer or local government.
    , @Bardon Kaldian
    Since dissolution of Takitariat, I've been to Taki's perhaps 3-4 times. Didn't even bother to read anything.

    I guess there will be a diminished readership for a time & it will all, eventually, die out. Without comments, this is not too interesting a place...
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  • “Note that Washington has a history of lying the country into wars. The Maine in 1898, the Gulf of Tonkin, the imaginary WMD in Gulf I.”

    Don’t forget Woodrow and FDR, assisted by the Brits, lying to get us into WWs I & II. Why American soldiers had to died by the tens of thousands to help the Europeans destroy their fellow Europeans and most of the churches, bridges, factories and basic infrastructure is not a question that has ever been polite to ask. Not to mention then paying for the clean up and (second time around) paying to keep the Ruskies from doing, after WWII, what we helped them to do while it was going on. None of this makes any sense, but then triumphalist history isn’t really history. It’s chest thumping.

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  • @dearieme
    "Note that Washington has a history of lying the country into wars. The Maine in 1898 ..": add the War of 1812. In fact, presumably add all other American wars until, I suppose, WWII. And even then the US severely provoked Japan, though it seems to me that the blame for the war was Japan's: even the perfidious Yanks couldn't force her to behave with such reckless idiocy in the Pacific.

    What were the lies involved in the War of 1812?

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    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
    The British are coming . . . .
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  • The F-UK-US countries , France , United Kingdom , USA , preach non stop war against mankind

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  • Deep state is filled with well-trained dogs. When a wolf enters the yard, the dogs bark.

    Trump is like a bear messing with bee hive for the honey. Bees sting to protect the queen.

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  • I am going to enjoy reading Unz the day after Trump gets the Nobel Peace Prize for uniting Korea

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    • Replies: @Dagon Shield
    They will find a way to deny it...
    , @anonymous
    That would be further proof of the Evil Empire's imminent demise. So, witnessing satan's pussy slink away with its tail between its legs, should be something to rejoice.

    I am all for Trump getting the Hypocrites, er I mean nobel, Peace Prize.
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  • @Steve Gittelson
    Just a bit more real truth from PCR. Carry on ...

    All of America, indeed of the entire West, lives in The Matrix, a concocted [and false] reality. Western peoples are so propagandized, so brainwashed, that they have no understanding that their disunity was created in order to make them impotent in the face of a rapacious ruling class, a class whose arrogance and hubris has the world on the brink of nuclear Armageddon.

    History as it actually happened is disappearing as those who tell the truth are dismissed as misogynists, racists, homophobes, Putin agents, terrorist sympathizers, anti-Semites, and conspiracy theorists. Liberals who complained mightily of McCarthyism now practice it ten-fold.

    ...

    The United States with its brainwashed and incompetent population—indeed, the entirety of the Western populations are incompetent—and with its absence of intelligent leadership has no chance against Russia and China, two massive countries arising from their overthrow of police states as the West descends into a gestapo state. The West is over and done with. Nothing remains of the West but the lies used to control the people. All hope is elsewhere.
     

    The whole of the comment

    To an order of magnitude: us deplorables are hard-wired for being herded and living by tuning in on our insignificant other. That is why man and wife pairs are so close general IQ wise as a rule, that is why… our politicians, media, scribes, the output of Holywood is close to the street. Cops and thieves, the good guys and the bad guys, bigger is better permeate language, the vocabulary itself points to ignorance.

    The output of our elites, are …what we deserve: more of trash and toxic rediculance.

    No question, if for a second as in history, a few times has happened, the deplorables “escape” the bashing worse chaos results, and in a blimp of time they submit to a next cycle of herding.

    That is the destiny of the species, that is how humanity perishes if nothing more clement appears to get at us obese masses. The comment is destined to our own, so it might be of to a degree or two, sure enough someone might find the bone and run with it.

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  • @dearieme
    "Note that Washington has a history of lying the country into wars. The Maine in 1898 ..": add the War of 1812. In fact, presumably add all other American wars until, I suppose, WWII. And even then the US severely provoked Japan, though it seems to me that the blame for the war was Japan's: even the perfidious Yanks couldn't force her to behave with such reckless idiocy in the Pacific.

    ” even the perfidious Yanks couldn’t force her to behave with such reckless idiocy in the Pacific. ”
    Read
    William L. Neumann, ‘America encounters Japan, From Perry to MacArthur’, 1963, 1965, New York
    Yukichi Fukuzawa, ‘De poorten gaan open’, 1978 Amsterdam (The Autobiography of Fukuzawa Yukichi, Tokyo 1934, 1899)
    Lt.-Comdr. Tóta Ishimaru, I.J.N., ‘Japan must fight Britain’, written in 1935, UK 1937
    Japan, one of the USA’s sorcerer apprentices.
    Some others: Saddam, the present Iranian regime, North Korea, ISIS.

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    • Replies: @Dagon Shield
    JD, you are so smart and well read yet they have accused of being an Indian... there is no justice!
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  • I miss two events:
    - Russia had no interest in the MH17 disaster, the west, including Ukraine had.
    Literally overnight sanctions were possible.
    - MH370, again a western interest, two groups of Chinese technicians in making planes invisible for radar were on board.

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  • @Steve Gittelson
    PCR's latest is really good. I love it when he gets to ripping, and doesn't stop for 2000+ words or so. It reads a lot better than Toynbee, fersher.

    The working class, designated by Hillary Clinton as “the Trump deplorables,” is now the victimizer, not the victim. Marxism has been stood on its head.

    The American ruling class loves Identity Politics, because Identity Politics divides the people into hostile groups and prevents any resistance to the ruling elite. With blacks screaming at whites, women screaming at men, and homosexuals screaming at heterosexuals, there is no one left to scream at the rulers.

    The ruling elite favors a “conversation on race,” because the ruling elite know it can only result in accusations that will further divide society. Consequently, the ruling elite have funded “black history,” “women’s studies,” and “transgender dialogues,” in universities as a way to institutionalize the divisiveness that protects them. These “studies” have replaced real history with fake history.
     

    Excuse me, but Toynbee reads very well, thank you.

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    • Replies: @Steve Gittelson

    Excuse me, but Toynbee reads very well, thank you.
     
    So does Heinlein's I Will Fear No Evil.

    See what I did there? ;-)
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  • @James Forrestal
    Good piece.

    "One: The aghastment and horrilation about the terrible, appalling, shocking etc nature of gas warfare is nonsense. There is nothing unusually hideous about the use of toxic chemicals. Hideous, yes, but not unusually hideous."

    Sure, but this is looking at things from a relatively honest moral perspective, based on some kind of universally-applicable rules. If your primary concern is instead the formation and promotion of a simplistic, Manichaean narrative in order to justify attacks on your enemies under cover of pretended "humanitarianism," while disguising your actual motivations, then defining "chemical warfare" as something uniquely horrible and evil has distinct advantages.

    It can be very useful as part of a propaganda narrative when you want to:
    1. Demonstrate how the villain in the narrative is somehow qualitatively different/ much more evil than other leaders engaged in similar activities, whether warfare, oppression, or both. The "gas" meme short-circuits any potentially inconvenient whataboutism that might arise,
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
    especially with respect to other countries that are receiving enthusiastic support, rather than condemnation, from "our" government. "Saudi Arabia's not using "chemical weapons" in Yemen, so it doesn't count." "The Israelis sniped those protesters; they didn't gas them, so it's clearly not the same kind of thing." Etc.

    2. Evoke associations with a historical event that is seen as uniquely evil, also involving gas. Associative conditioning is much easier than convincing people through rational argumentation.

    As a minor aside, "barrel bomb" appears to be a more subtle (and more recent) meme/ shortcut to designate the "bad guys" in the narrative. What, a bomb with better aerodynamics would somehow be morally superior?

    “Saudi Arabia’s not using “chemical weapons” in Yemen, so it doesn’t count.”

    Every bomb, bullet, and missle is a chemical weapon(expanding gases).

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  • I got the opportunity to meet up with commenter AP this week. Had a very pleasant conversation with him, if a pretty short one as was necessitated by his busy schedule. I had been hoping to do a long post on my travels in Portugal, not nuclear war, this week. Will hopefully get that up...
  • anon[101] • Disclaimer says:
    @utu
    It would be difficult to prove to people that the project is actually happening. What I mean it would be easy to sabotage it by undermining the public trust. Perhaps it is better to make a good movie for 50 millions and make people dream about it than make it real for 50 billions and have people doubt it.

    Perhaps it is better to make a good movie for 50 millions and make people dream about it than make it real for 50 billions and have people doubt it.

    Even better would be spent few hundred of millions to create really awesome fictional planet, much better than the real piles of useless dirt.

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  • @Daniel Chieh
    1) Cheaper launch environment for future space missions
    2) Knowledge gained on how to deal with the effects of microgravity, etc.
    3) Less expensive "real estate" than ISS in orbit
    4) Excellent practice run for more extensive colonization locations such as Mars

    Expansion is eternal. It is the birthright of humanity and if we are indeed the only intelligent species in the local cosmos, we owe it to destiny to spread out and among the stars.

    Colonization of Mars is science fiction, only without any science. We evolved to live on Earth, in 1g gravity.

    http://academicvc.com/2015/09/09/why-we-cant-go-to-mars

    http://www.stephenfleming.net/files/Fleming_DragonCon_Mars_v6.pdf

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    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Most of Mars' immediate issues can be resolved by restoring the magnetic field, which is entirely possible. This gets rid of space particles, etc and will allow for the accumulation of an atmosphere.

    https://www.sciencealert.com/nasa-wants-to-launch-a-giant-magnetic-shield-to-make-mars-habitable

    The microgravity issue is by far more serious and close to "unresolveable" but we already have some solutions for it at the moment. In the long run, I think that its possible to genetically engineer for it, among other solutions.
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  • @Anon

    They liked them better than the Byzantine
     
    And the Tlaxcala liked the Spanish much better than the Aztecs.

    Since you bring up North Africa, ask the Berbers of Libya what they think of the Arab occupation?

    At any rate, a palpable hit!

    So you haven’t read about the various border wars between the countries of North Africa – that’s ok, most people haven’t.
     
    Would these wars have been different if borders were curved and meandering? I notice there are still straight-line borders, so they seem to have worked out pretty well in the end. The guerilla war over Western Sahara was not over the straightness but the existence of a border, which is in fact not the colonial border.

    There is no causal connection between straight lines and war.

    And the Tlaxcala liked the Spanish much better than the Aztecs.

    This is the plight of the little guy in history; find the better option for suzerainty.

    Since you bring up North Africa, ask the Berbers of Libya what they think of the Arab occupation?

    Historically – in that region, sometimes Berbers have had top-billing, sometimes Arabs. This is another issue that imported ethno-nationalism has brought up; “Libya is for Arabs” and other nonsense.

    There is no causal connection between straight lines and war.

    That wasn’t my point. My point is that it is stupid to fight over and identify yourself over borders somebody else gave you.

    Case in point – the tribe of Bani Tamim has a tribal identity from before Islam – they straddle multiple nation-states across those straight line borders:

    Are they supposed to all of a sudden identity themselves as Saudi or Kuwaiti or Iraqi or Jordanian based on some lines some British and French guys drew up? And consider other tribe members as “the other”? Why? It’s fine if they want to, but it’s also obvious why they would reject it.

    Peace.

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    • Replies: @Anon

    That wasn’t my point. My point is that it is stupid to fight over and identify yourself over borders somebody else gave you.
     
    That's a good point. It was originally badly expressed, and it masks the general truth that Syria, Mesopotamia, and so on (I was mostly thinking of those two, given the context here) are ancient civilizations and at least quasi-national identities, separated by oceans of sand where the precise point of a line doesn't really mean all that much. That's why I posted about the US, to get you to think a little; that's the main reason I post at all these days, to try to put a new and startling perspective on things (that and that I get sucked into discussions-- I just had a long and fruitless one over on Revusky's article; I think I'll just quit it at this point).

    Your point is much clearer now, but (or "and", if you like) I would argue that if it were shortened as follows, it would be wrong:

    My point is that it is stupid to fight over and identify yourself over borders.
     
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  • Anon[198] • Disclaimer says:
    @Talha

    Ask the Assyrian Christians what they thought about occupation by various Muslim powers?
     
    They liked them better than the Byzantines (which they often called Melkite as a pejorative):
    “Only through the campaigns of Islam in the first half of the 7th century was it possible to free the East from the Byzantines and the Persians. This happened with the help of the members of the Syrian Church; the original inhabitants of Syria of whom one part was of Aramaic origin who inhabited these areas for generations and another part was of Arabic origin. When the Arab Muslims marched into Syria they were welcomed by the Syrians who saw the new rulers as saviors who freed them from the yoke of the Byzantines because the Byzantines tried by force to assimilate them into the Byzantine Church. This was the church of the empire and membership in it would have meant compulsorily acceptance of the resolutions of Chalcedon: that Christ had two natures, the human eating, drinking and feeling pain and the divine making miracles. This would have been a denial of the dogma of their church fathers. The Syrians were also able through the cooperation with the Arab Muslims to retain their ecclesiastical dogma, the Antiochian See, their churches, monasteries, ecclesiastical inheritance and their liturgy...The Syrians put great hope in them, not only because the Muslims liberated them from their religious trouble but also because they relieved the Syrians of the burdensome taxes that were placed on their backs. They said, ‘Praise be to God, who delivered us from the unjust Byzantines and who put us under the rule of the just Muslim Arabs.’“
    http://syrianorthodoxchurch.org/2010/03/a-short-overview-of-the-common-history/

    Most people have a comic-book understanding of history and a lack of knowledge about how criminally stupid Byzantine policies were in the region.


    But, on this analogy, I’m all for a grand Arab summit to redraw borders to everybody’s liking.
     
    Agreed.

    Not sure the borders themselves have started too many wars
     
    So you haven’t read about the various border wars between the countries of North Africa - that’s ok, most people haven’t.

    Peace.

    They liked them better than the Byzantine

    And the Tlaxcala liked the Spanish much better than the Aztecs.

    Since you bring up North Africa, ask the Berbers of Libya what they think of the Arab occupation?

    At any rate, a palpable hit!

    So you haven’t read about the various border wars between the countries of North Africa – that’s ok, most people haven’t.

    Would these wars have been different if borders were curved and meandering? I notice there are still straight-line borders, so they seem to have worked out pretty well in the end. The guerilla war over Western Sahara was not over the straightness but the existence of a border, which is in fact not the colonial border.

    There is no causal connection between straight lines and war.

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    • Replies: @Talha

    And the Tlaxcala liked the Spanish much better than the Aztecs.
     
    This is the plight of the little guy in history; find the better option for suzerainty.

    Since you bring up North Africa, ask the Berbers of Libya what they think of the Arab occupation?
     
    Historically - in that region, sometimes Berbers have had top-billing, sometimes Arabs. This is another issue that imported ethno-nationalism has brought up; "Libya is for Arabs" and other nonsense.

    There is no causal connection between straight lines and war.
     
    That wasn't my point. My point is that it is stupid to fight over and identify yourself over borders somebody else gave you.

    Case in point - the tribe of Bani Tamim has a tribal identity from before Islam - they straddle multiple nation-states across those straight line borders:
    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/30/Map_of_Arabia_600_AD.svg/400px-Map_of_Arabia_600_AD.svg.png

    Are they supposed to all of a sudden identity themselves as Saudi or Kuwaiti or Iraqi or Jordanian based on some lines some British and French guys drew up? And consider other tribe members as "the other"? Why? It's fine if they want to, but it's also obvious why they would reject it.

    Peace.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @for-the-record
    So you haven’t read about the various border wars between the countries of North Africa – that’s ok, most people haven’t.

    Enlightenment, please.

    I’ll use wiki – I usually don’t, but just as a short list…

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libyan–Egyptian_War

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sand_War

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chadian–Libyan_conflict

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Sahara_War

    And these don’t cover some of the Horn of Africa ones. And you already know about some of the border conflicts in the other parts of the Middle East like between Iraq and Iran, Kuwait, etc.

    Now I’m not saying Muslims aren’t at fault for fighting over these lines, I’m just saying it seems to be a really idiotic thing to do and use as the primary means to identify oneself.

    Peace.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Talha

    Ask the Assyrian Christians what they thought about occupation by various Muslim powers?
     
    They liked them better than the Byzantines (which they often called Melkite as a pejorative):
    “Only through the campaigns of Islam in the first half of the 7th century was it possible to free the East from the Byzantines and the Persians. This happened with the help of the members of the Syrian Church; the original inhabitants of Syria of whom one part was of Aramaic origin who inhabited these areas for generations and another part was of Arabic origin. When the Arab Muslims marched into Syria they were welcomed by the Syrians who saw the new rulers as saviors who freed them from the yoke of the Byzantines because the Byzantines tried by force to assimilate them into the Byzantine Church. This was the church of the empire and membership in it would have meant compulsorily acceptance of the resolutions of Chalcedon: that Christ had two natures, the human eating, drinking and feeling pain and the divine making miracles. This would have been a denial of the dogma of their church fathers. The Syrians were also able through the cooperation with the Arab Muslims to retain their ecclesiastical dogma, the Antiochian See, their churches, monasteries, ecclesiastical inheritance and their liturgy...The Syrians put great hope in them, not only because the Muslims liberated them from their religious trouble but also because they relieved the Syrians of the burdensome taxes that were placed on their backs. They said, ‘Praise be to God, who delivered us from the unjust Byzantines and who put us under the rule of the just Muslim Arabs.’“
    http://syrianorthodoxchurch.org/2010/03/a-short-overview-of-the-common-history/

    Most people have a comic-book understanding of history and a lack of knowledge about how criminally stupid Byzantine policies were in the region.


    But, on this analogy, I’m all for a grand Arab summit to redraw borders to everybody’s liking.
     
    Agreed.

    Not sure the borders themselves have started too many wars
     
    So you haven’t read about the various border wars between the countries of North Africa - that’s ok, most people haven’t.

    Peace.

    So you haven’t read about the various border wars between the countries of North Africa – that’s ok, most people haven’t.

    Enlightenment, please.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    I’ll use wiki - I usually don’t, but just as a short list...
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libyan–Egyptian_War
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sand_War
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chadian–Libyan_conflict
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Sahara_War

    And these don’t cover some of the Horn of Africa ones. And you already know about some of the border conflicts in the other parts of the Middle East like between Iraq and Iran, Kuwait, etc.

    Now I’m not saying Muslims aren’t at fault for fighting over these lines, I’m just saying it seems to be a really idiotic thing to do and use as the primary means to identify oneself.

    Peace.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Anon

    Sure – ask the Native American tribes what they think about that?
     
    Ask the Assyrian Christians what they thought about occupation by various Muslim powers?

    I'll be here all week, try the veal, it's halal.


    This was something worked out between two parts of the Anglo-Saxon world and their mother empire.
     
    Sure, if you want to call it that. Your link pretty adequately summarizes the nature of their relations with Mommy Dearest, though, for a very long time. Notice the southern border is pretty regular too.

    But, on this analogy, I'm all for a grand Arab summit to redraw borders to everybody's liking. Not sure the borders themselves have started too many wars; the only people really left out are the Kurds.

    Ask the Assyrian Christians what they thought about occupation by various Muslim powers?

    They liked them better than the Byzantines (which they often called Melkite as a pejorative):
    “Only through the campaigns of Islam in the first half of the 7th century was it possible to free the East from the Byzantines and the Persians. This happened with the help of the members of the Syrian Church; the original inhabitants of Syria of whom one part was of Aramaic origin who inhabited these areas for generations and another part was of Arabic origin. When the Arab Muslims marched into Syria they were welcomed by the Syrians who saw the new rulers as saviors who freed them from the yoke of the Byzantines because the Byzantines tried by force to assimilate them into the Byzantine Church. This was the church of the empire and membership in it would have meant compulsorily acceptance of the resolutions of Chalcedon: that Christ had two natures, the human eating, drinking and feeling pain and the divine making miracles. This would have been a denial of the dogma of their church fathers. The Syrians were also able through the cooperation with the Arab Muslims to retain their ecclesiastical dogma, the Antiochian See, their churches, monasteries, ecclesiastical inheritance and their liturgy…The Syrians put great hope in them, not only because the Muslims liberated them from their religious trouble but also because they relieved the Syrians of the burdensome taxes that were placed on their backs. They said, ‘Praise be to God, who delivered us from the unjust Byzantines and who put us under the rule of the just Muslim Arabs.’“

    http://syrianorthodoxchurch.org/2010/03/a-short-overview-of-the-common-history/

    Most people have a comic-book understanding of history and a lack of knowledge about how criminally stupid Byzantine policies were in the region.

    But, on this analogy, I’m all for a grand Arab summit to redraw borders to everybody’s liking.

    Agreed.

    Not sure the borders themselves have started too many wars

    So you haven’t read about the various border wars between the countries of North Africa – that’s ok, most people haven’t.

    Peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @for-the-record
    So you haven’t read about the various border wars between the countries of North Africa – that’s ok, most people haven’t.

    Enlightenment, please.
    , @Anon

    They liked them better than the Byzantine
     
    And the Tlaxcala liked the Spanish much better than the Aztecs.

    Since you bring up North Africa, ask the Berbers of Libya what they think of the Arab occupation?

    At any rate, a palpable hit!

    So you haven’t read about the various border wars between the countries of North Africa – that’s ok, most people haven’t.
     
    Would these wars have been different if borders were curved and meandering? I notice there are still straight-line borders, so they seem to have worked out pretty well in the end. The guerilla war over Western Sahara was not over the straightness but the existence of a border, which is in fact not the colonial border.

    There is no causal connection between straight lines and war.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Anon[198] • Disclaimer says:
    @Talha
    Sure - ask the Native American tribes what they think about that? This was something worked out between two parts of the Anglo-Saxon world and their mother empire.

    Now if the Ottomans or Mughals* had drawn it, you'd have a great point.

    Peace.

    *Speaking of Indian Muslim kingdoms and the US:
    https://aeon.co/essays/why-american-revolutionaries-admired-the-rebels-of-mysore

    Sure – ask the Native American tribes what they think about that?

    Ask the Assyrian Christians what they thought about occupation by various Muslim powers?

    I’ll be here all week, try the veal, it’s halal.

    This was something worked out between two parts of the Anglo-Saxon world and their mother empire.

    Sure, if you want to call it that. Your link pretty adequately summarizes the nature of their relations with Mommy Dearest, though, for a very long time. Notice the southern border is pretty regular too.

    But, on this analogy, I’m all for a grand Arab summit to redraw borders to everybody’s liking. Not sure the borders themselves have started too many wars; the only people really left out are the Kurds.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha

    Ask the Assyrian Christians what they thought about occupation by various Muslim powers?
     
    They liked them better than the Byzantines (which they often called Melkite as a pejorative):
    “Only through the campaigns of Islam in the first half of the 7th century was it possible to free the East from the Byzantines and the Persians. This happened with the help of the members of the Syrian Church; the original inhabitants of Syria of whom one part was of Aramaic origin who inhabited these areas for generations and another part was of Arabic origin. When the Arab Muslims marched into Syria they were welcomed by the Syrians who saw the new rulers as saviors who freed them from the yoke of the Byzantines because the Byzantines tried by force to assimilate them into the Byzantine Church. This was the church of the empire and membership in it would have meant compulsorily acceptance of the resolutions of Chalcedon: that Christ had two natures, the human eating, drinking and feeling pain and the divine making miracles. This would have been a denial of the dogma of their church fathers. The Syrians were also able through the cooperation with the Arab Muslims to retain their ecclesiastical dogma, the Antiochian See, their churches, monasteries, ecclesiastical inheritance and their liturgy...The Syrians put great hope in them, not only because the Muslims liberated them from their religious trouble but also because they relieved the Syrians of the burdensome taxes that were placed on their backs. They said, ‘Praise be to God, who delivered us from the unjust Byzantines and who put us under the rule of the just Muslim Arabs.’“
    http://syrianorthodoxchurch.org/2010/03/a-short-overview-of-the-common-history/

    Most people have a comic-book understanding of history and a lack of knowledge about how criminally stupid Byzantine policies were in the region.


    But, on this analogy, I’m all for a grand Arab summit to redraw borders to everybody’s liking.
     
    Agreed.

    Not sure the borders themselves have started too many wars
     
    So you haven’t read about the various border wars between the countries of North Africa - that’s ok, most people haven’t.

    Peace.

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Disordered thoughts on the National Cockatoo’s latest antics. One: The aghastment and horrilation about the terrible, appalling, shocking etc nature of gas warfare is nonsense. There is nothing unusually hideous about the use of toxic chemicals. Hideous, yes, but not unusually hideous. Boring old workaday artillery, that nobody criticizes, leaves children watching as mommy frantically...
  • Good piece.

    “One: The aghastment and horrilation about the terrible, appalling, shocking etc nature of gas warfare is nonsense. There is nothing unusually hideous about the use of toxic chemicals. Hideous, yes, but not unusually hideous.”

    Sure, but this is looking at things from a relatively honest moral perspective, based on some kind of universally-applicable rules. If your primary concern is instead the formation and promotion of a simplistic, Manichaean narrative in order to justify attacks on your enemies under cover of pretended “humanitarianism,” while disguising your actual motivations, then defining “chemical warfare” as something uniquely horrible and evil has distinct advantages.

    It can be very useful as part of a propaganda narrative when you want to:
    1. Demonstrate how the villain in the narrative is somehow qualitatively different/ much more evil than other leaders engaged in similar activities, whether warfare, oppression, or both. The “gas” meme short-circuits any potentially inconvenient whataboutism that might arise,

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

    especially with respect to other countries that are receiving enthusiastic support, rather than condemnation, from “our” government. “Saudi Arabia’s not using “chemical weapons” in Yemen, so it doesn’t count.” “The Israelis sniped those protesters; they didn’t gas them, so it’s clearly not the same kind of thing.” Etc.

    2. Evoke associations with a historical event that is seen as uniquely evil, also involving gas. Associative conditioning is much easier than convincing people through rational argumentation.

    As a minor aside, “barrel bomb” appears to be a more subtle (and more recent) meme/ shortcut to designate the “bad guys” in the narrative. What, a bomb with better aerodynamics would somehow be morally superior?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Biff

    “Saudi Arabia’s not using “chemical weapons” in Yemen, so it doesn’t count.”
     
    Every bomb, bullet, and missle is a chemical weapon(expanding gases).
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Macon Richardson
    The "Assman"? Do we really need such cutsie nicknames in order to discuss matters of merit and importance?

    Would you prefer “Animal Assad” (not bad honestly if inaccurate) or “Gas Killing Animal”?

    I’m quite pleased with myself for the Assman coinage.

    Read More
    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    What about animal Churchill ?
    He defended the use of gas in by him Damascus in 1918 in the British parliament.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • I got the opportunity to meet up with commenter AP this week. Had a very pleasant conversation with him, if a pretty short one as was necessitated by his busy schedule. I had been hoping to do a long post on my travels in Portugal, not nuclear war, this week. Will hopefully get that up...
  • @Anon
    Giant straight-line border: https://www.freightcenter.com/images/default-source/shipping/shipping-map-united-states-canada-cross-border.jpg?sfvrsn=6&MaxWidth=600&MaxHeight=600&ScaleUp=false&Quality=Low&Method=ResizeFitToAreaArguments&Signature=83655940E07DBAA3C5FCA224E291EF68B1BD3FA0

    Sure – ask the Native American tribes what they think about that? This was something worked out between two parts of the Anglo-Saxon world and their mother empire.

    Now if the Ottomans or Mughals* had drawn it, you’d have a great point.

    Peace.

    *Speaking of Indian Muslim kingdoms and the US:

    https://aeon.co/essays/why-american-revolutionaries-admired-the-rebels-of-mysore

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon

    Sure – ask the Native American tribes what they think about that?
     
    Ask the Assyrian Christians what they thought about occupation by various Muslim powers?

    I'll be here all week, try the veal, it's halal.


    This was something worked out between two parts of the Anglo-Saxon world and their mother empire.
     
    Sure, if you want to call it that. Your link pretty adequately summarizes the nature of their relations with Mommy Dearest, though, for a very long time. Notice the southern border is pretty regular too.

    But, on this analogy, I'm all for a grand Arab summit to redraw borders to everybody's liking. Not sure the borders themselves have started too many wars; the only people really left out are the Kurds.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Talha
    Oh, I certainly don't deny that a religion like Islam expects certain baseline conformity to religious norms among its adherents, no matter what their local background. This is one of the reasons the Taliban went after something like bacha bazi or the forced inheritance of widows with extreme prejudice. And the dark side of religion, when it gets into the hands of extremists can be very, very scary in this regard. But the normative voice also breeds a mentality that respects local norms and cultures and even accords local norms a place in the religious law - which is where the maxim 'al-adatu muhakkamah' (culture/local norms are made the arbiter) derives.

    And it traditionally doesn't care much about non-Muslim cultures and what they do as long as they pay taxes and don't do stupid things like public blasphemy. Which is why Muslim polities drafted dhimmah agreements with or created millets for local populations to let them have autonomy in the most important things in life; belief and culture.

    Prof. Jonathan Brown mentioned the case of the Mughals who even allowed the Hindu practice of widow burning to continue (as detestable as it was in our tradition) as long as it was confirmed that the widow was doing it out of choice. The British were the ones who shut it down.


    Especially in your case, you’re just pissed that nationalism (especially of a distinctly secular kind) would threaten the all-pervasive centrality of your Ummah and of Islamic norms.
     
    Yeah, I don't like nationalism because it has pitted Muslim against Muslim in maddening fratricide based on borders (often straight lines) drawn up by people who killed our forefathers - the entire enterprise is stupid from the outset from a Muslim perspective. Would you respect this if the Muslims had overrun all of Europe and left it in this state?:
    http://assets2.bigthink.com/system/tinymce_assets/5407/original/Europe__Colonised.jpg

    It's a joke. Look at Syria - straight lines? Are we supposed to take that seriously?

    I also don't like what it did to non-Muslim minorities who were often purged by the millions when our multi-ethnic, multi-religious polities gave way to imported ethno-linguistic-nationalism.

    Our only saving grace has been that we are generally very incompetent at it (no surprise) thus a nation like Pakistan can remain a nation of about 5 or 6 distinct ethnicities that still have their local language and culture though the elites from Islamabad would love to do with enforcing Urdu what the new Parisian elite were able to do in rooting out local dialects of French:
    "Diffusion of the standard language throughout the community in the nineteenth century involved not just a change of linguistic habits, but also the spread of a whole set of beliefs about language, which we referred to earlier as standard ideology, namely: 1) the ideal state of a language is one of uniformity, 2) the most valid form of the language is to be found in writing, 3) the standard variety is inherently better (ie. more elegant, clearer, more logical, etc.) that other varieties. The Ancien Regime had not felt the need to propagate the standard very far beyond the ruling elite. However, with the abolition of the monarchy in 1792, the French language was promoted to being the prime element binding the French people together. It became the central criterion of 'Frenchness', the badge of French nationhood, the symbol of rationality and partiotic values, to which the whole population was now expected to subscribe."
    A Sociolinguistic History of Parisian French (Cambridge Univ. Press

    Maybe you think that's a great thing, someone like me doesn't. Even the Qur'an is phonetically preserved in the local variations of Arabic dialect that existed at the time of the Prophet (pbuh).

    AP brought up the example of the Austro-Hungarian Empire which I personally like; they gave Muslims in their land a degree of semi-autonomy to live by the Shariah in certain civil aspects.

    So it's a cost benefit analysis; one picks one over the other based on what values they prioritize in life. I can hardly expect our values to be the same in this regard due to the differences in belief.

    Peace.

    Giant straight-line border:

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Sure - ask the Native American tribes what they think about that? This was something worked out between two parts of the Anglo-Saxon world and their mother empire.

    Now if the Ottomans or Mughals* had drawn it, you'd have a great point.

    Peace.

    *Speaking of Indian Muslim kingdoms and the US:
    https://aeon.co/essays/why-american-revolutionaries-admired-the-rebels-of-mysore
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @reiner Tor

    In Slovakia in 1907, Hungarians started to ban any other language than Magyar in schools
     
    They didn't do that. You might criticize those policies back then, but it'd be nice to do that based on facts. First, state schools (as opposed to municipal or parish schools) had always taught in Hungarian only, and they received more money (though the gap kept decreasing). However, the vast majority of schools were municipal or parish schools, and they could teach in any language.

    The 1907 education law (commonly known as "Lex Apponyi" named after the nationalist minister of education), to which you're referring to, made it more difficult to teach in Slovak (or other minority languages) where there were a lot of Hungarian pupils (or pupils whose parents wished for their children to be taught in Hungarian), because it made it mandatory to provide Hungarian language classes in schools where there were at least 20 Hungarian pupils, or alternately where the proportion of Hungarian pupils reached 20%. (Many schools must've been really small back then.) It also mandated that a Hungarian-only school should stay that way, no matter what.

    In retrospect it was a mistake, but the reason for it was clear: most minority students never learned Hungarian (despite Hungarian language becoming a mandatory subject after the early 1880s), in part because the teachers either couldn't speak it properly themselves, or at least were unenthusiastic about teaching it. Lex Apponyi has been criticized in Hungary retrospectively, but it didn't matter much. Nationalism was the trend of the day, and while in 1918 the new Hungarian leadership could find some Slovak and Ruthenian leaders willing to cooperate with it, in general it was pretty clear that these loyalists were getting both less loyal and less influential within their communities. It was overall a good thing to lose areas with disloyal ethnic groups in the majority.

    If you can still see Hungarians whining about the Treaty of Trianon, it's because of the way the borders were set. In the case of Czechoslovakia, the First Vienna Award set an ethnically correct border, which minimized the number of minorities on both sides of the border. Now the ethnic composition has changed, but there are still compact (albeit ever smaller) areas close to the border which are ethnically Hungarian. I don't think it'd make sense for Hungary to lay territorial claims now, but those borders were in no way just.

    No borders are ever just, we can agree on that. To separate Slovak and Hungarian areas after 1918 was almost impossible. Trianon put the border on Danube because it was neat, because Czechs were among the ‘winners’ of WWI, and because a delegation of Hungarians from that area (southeast of Bratislava) petitioned to be in one country with that their main agricultural market, e.g. Bratislava. I think they thought that would block Bratislava from becoming a part of Czechoslovakia, instead Triannon just gave the whole area north of Danube to Slovakia. Further east it was even more messy.

    First Vienna Award was also not just. It took a few hundred thousand Slovaks and added them to Hungary in addition to the majority Hungarian areas. After WWII, the status quo ante – 1918-38 – was restored.

    You are understating the impact of 1907 education law. When it fully kicked in in 1911-14, they were forcing 6-year olds in Slovak villages to learn mostly in Hungarian. It was a disaster, there were literally thousands of almost pure Slovak villages where the schools were suddenly changed. I could give you examples, and the anger that generated was extreme. In Western Slovakia where people were always close to Czechs (and more advanced and nationalistic in many ways), there was a sharp shift by the intelligentsia to look to Prague for allies and help. Then WW1 started and the rest is history. Lex Apponyi put the coup the grace to the Habsburg Empire.

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  • @Daniel Chieh
    I think AK mentioned that if such things become common, it essentially is a violation of the rule of law that even Russia doesn't fantasize of doing.

    it essentially is a violation of the rule of law that even Russia doesn’t fantasize of doing.

    Of course not, Russia doesn’t have anywhere near the power to do such things, but the US certainly does. Just look at the fines they have collected from international banks for transactions with 3rd parties that the US doesn’t approve of, notably Bank Paribas ($8.9 billion):

    https://risk.thomsonreuters.com/content/dam/openweb/documents/pdf/risk/infographic/fines-banks-breached-us-sanctions-infographic.pdf

    And the idea that the US won’t seize assets of “rogue” States doesn’t hold much water:

    US Treasury blocks record $30bn of Libya assets

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/feb/28/us-treasury-blocks-libya-assets

    It seems to me that there are 2 ways of viewing this lawsuit:

    (1) as frivolous, intended essentially to embarrass Trump

    (2) as an escalation of the moves to isolate a notorious international outlaw State (one that would stoop to carrying out a chemical weapons attack against a US ally).

    Just as AK had a brainstorming post to explore “How Can Russia Hurt the US” you can be sure that there is high-level brainstorming going on in the Land of the Free as to “How Can the Forces of Good Hurt Russia”.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @reiner Tor
    The game changer might be if they started doing this to the Chinese. After that, trust in western institutions, which took centuries to build, could collapse in the rest of the world overnight.

    Well yeah, if you can sue somebody for bombing your armed soldiers in the middle of a war zone during a civil war – that seems to be pretty over the top.

    Peace.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Daniel Chieh
    I think AK mentioned that if such things become common, it essentially is a violation of the rule of law that even Russia doesn't fantasize of doing.

    The game changer might be if they started doing this to the Chinese. After that, trust in western institutions, which took centuries to build, could collapse in the rest of the world overnight.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Well yeah, if you can sue somebody for bombing your armed soldiers in the middle of a war zone during a civil war - that seems to be pretty over the top.

    Peace.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @for-the-record
    I like how a political party can sue Russia.

    Very easily, and there is the precedent of Iran (probably others as well):

    Iran Still Owes $53 Billion in Unpaid U.S. Court Judgments to American Victims of Iranian Terrorism

    The U.S. Supreme Court ruled on April 20 that nearly $2 billion in frozen Iranian government funds must be turned over to injured survivors and families of Americans killed in the 1983 bombing of the U.S. Marine Corps barracks in Beirut and other attacks for which Iran was found liable by U.S. courts. This is an important, but only partial, step towards compensating American victims of Iranian terrorism.

    Even after the nearly $2 billion is used as compensation, American victims of Iranian terrorism will still hold some $53 billion in outstanding federal court judgments against Iranian government entities and officials.

    http://www.defenddemocracy.org/media-hit/orde-kittrie-after-supreme-court-decision-iran-still-owes-53-billion-in-unpaid-us-cour/

     

    Lots of Russian assets in the US (currency reserves, etc.) if they want to up the pressure.

    I think AK mentioned that if such things become common, it essentially is a violation of the rule of law that even Russia doesn’t fantasize of doing.

    Read More
    • Agree: reiner Tor
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    The game changer might be if they started doing this to the Chinese. After that, trust in western institutions, which took centuries to build, could collapse in the rest of the world overnight.
    , @for-the-record
    it essentially is a violation of the rule of law that even Russia doesn’t fantasize of doing.

    Of course not, Russia doesn't have anywhere near the power to do such things, but the US certainly does. Just look at the fines they have collected from international banks for transactions with 3rd parties that the US doesn't approve of, notably Bank Paribas ($8.9 billion):

    https://risk.thomsonreuters.com/content/dam/openweb/documents/pdf/risk/infographic/fines-banks-breached-us-sanctions-infographic.pdf

    And the idea that the US won't seize assets of "rogue" States doesn't hold much water:

    US Treasury blocks record $30bn of Libya assets

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/feb/28/us-treasury-blocks-libya-assets

     

    It seems to me that there are 2 ways of viewing this lawsuit:

    (1) as frivolous, intended essentially to embarrass Trump

    (2) as an escalation of the moves to isolate a notorious international outlaw State (one that would stoop to carrying out a chemical weapons attack against a US ally).

    Just as AK had a brainstorming post to explore "How Can Russia Hurt the US" you can be sure that there is high-level brainstorming going on in the Land of the Free as to "How Can the Forces of Good Hurt Russia".
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Daniel Chieh
    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-04-20/democratic-party-sues-russia-trump-wikileaks-conspiring-hurt-hillary-2016-election

    I like how a political party can sue Russia.

    I like how a political party can sue Russia.

    Very easily, and there is the precedent of Iran (probably others as well):

    Iran Still Owes $53 Billion in Unpaid U.S. Court Judgments to American Victims of Iranian Terrorism

    The U.S. Supreme Court ruled on April 20 that nearly $2 billion in frozen Iranian government funds must be turned over to injured survivors and families of Americans killed in the 1983 bombing of the U.S. Marine Corps barracks in Beirut and other attacks for which Iran was found liable by U.S. courts. This is an important, but only partial, step towards compensating American victims of Iranian terrorism.

    Even after the nearly $2 billion is used as compensation, American victims of Iranian terrorism will still hold some $53 billion in outstanding federal court judgments against Iranian government entities and officials.

    http://www.defenddemocracy.org/media-hit/orde-kittrie-after-supreme-court-decision-iran-still-owes-53-billion-in-unpaid-us-cour/

    Lots of Russian assets in the US (currency reserves, etc.) if they want to up the pressure.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    I think AK mentioned that if such things become common, it essentially is a violation of the rule of law that even Russia doesn't fantasize of doing.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @AP

    as expected and as I said …nowhere
     
    You need to read things several times to understand them.

    Your link:

    https://icpc.baylor.edu/worldfinals/results

    Your claim:

    As expected Ukraine and Estonia…nowhere,

    Reality:

    Lviv National University at 14th place

    So, not nowhere.

    Lvov University is simply not the joint 14-th-31st list type of University ( you could easily say 31st as 14th so I will put it at 20th place
     
    You couldn't understand that it was a tie. 6 problems were solved. There is no ranking within that group, they are all tied at 14th place because they solved the same number of problems.

    it has a very average reputation in everything
     
    A claim made by you, who cannot even read, as we have seen.

    According to this link, it scored 14th place, tied with Stanford and Saint Petersburg State University.

    Here are results from 2017:

    https://icpc.baylor.edu/community/results-2017

    Lviv National University is in 20th place, tied with MIT and St. Petersburg Academic University.

    Uzhorod at #34, tied with MGU, Novosibirsk and UC Berkely.

    Results 2016:

    https://icpc.baylor.edu/community/results-2016

    Lviv is in 11th place in the world. Not tied with anyone. Above MGU, St. Petersburg Academic University, etc.



    Retard2 does what Retard2 does best - fail.

    [MORE]

    …more time wasting , imbecilic retardedness.
    You get exposed as an imbecile…..so continue more time-wasting , lie bollocks.

    Read More
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  • @AP

    Horrible corruption under unpopular dictator Putin + hordes of Central Asians <– that's 2, no, 3 Ukrainian nationalist myths about Russia in one post!
     
    1. My cousin living so well is not a myth. Nor is he alone, an exception. The higher one goes up, the worse it becomes. And unlike China, where some even get shot, in Russia they sometimes resign and get hired again even if they are caught. Look at the career of Serdyukov:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatoliy_Serdyukov

    How many Serdyukovs have been imprisoned as occurs to such types in China? I can think of Ulyukaev, who happened to cross Putin. Compare to China:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-corruption_campaign_under_Xi_Jinping

    Upon taking office, Xi vowed to crack down on "tigers and flies", that is, high-level officials and local civil servants alike. Most of the officials investigated were removed from office and faced accusations of bribery and abuse of power, although the range of alleged abuses varied widely. As of 2016, the campaign has 'netted' over 120 high-ranking officials, including about a dozen high-ranking military officers, several senior executives of state-owned companies, and five national leaders

    You think that Putin's elite is a lot cleaner than the Chinese one?

    :::::::::::::::

    That having been said, stuff like police shakedowns of regular people and businesses seems to quite rare.

    2. I didn't claim "hordes" but quite a few, perhaps 10% or so. I stayed at a hotel nearer the airport the last night. All the housekeepers I saw were central Asians. Large % of workers in, say, the fast food court at Okhotniy Ryad (including at the Georgian restaurant) were central Asians. Lots of people doing construction - Central Asians. I used a taxi 4 times - twice, Central Asians. Central Asians are kind of like Moscow's Mexicans. There are more of them in Moscow than in 2013. There are also far fewer Caucasians. Nothing mythical about this.

    But then, I don't get his idea of chatting up with Ukrainian nationalists either.
     
    1. I'm not a nationalist. You seem to be, though.

    2 You whine about needing safe spaces rather often.

    How many Serdyukovs have been imprisoned as occurs to such types in China? I can think of Ulyukaev, who happened to cross Putin. Compare to China:

    err…..numerous governors and ex governors, a ton of cabinet ministers in oblast level, deputy Culture minister ,Mayors, etecetera have been arrested and imprisoned…1000 officials in Russia last year alone were sacked for corruption you ignorant dipshit.

    Unlike in cesspit Ukraine which does the same thing, the President of Russia appointing the governor is not an authoritarian move (due to the complex composition and form of Russia), as such these arrests aren’t a cronyism fight as they are with the ( very few in the abysmally corrupt) Ukraine with Poroshenko

    [MORE]

    errmmm…..Ulyukaev in no way crossed Putin you dumb POS.
    A huge amount of very high ranking guys in the FSB, MVD , and Investigate Commitee have been arrested and imprisoned
    there has also been quite a few deaths in custody of these guys
    Roskosmos,FCIN…I could go on and on

    Now compare this to Ukraine which, since the Nazi-coup has in fact tried to exact copy Russia’s fight against corruption but failed miserably

    So you know even less about Russian politics then you do about “Ukrainian” politics of “Ukraine ” in general…..what a messed-up idiot

    …and proportionally , in the last 5 years, there have far more anti-corruption arrests in Russia, and high profile corruption arrests…then in China…and it weights up far more in an open society like Russia.

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  • AP says:
    @Gerard2
    as expected and as I said ...nowhere you dipshit...the ratio and sheer number of Russian dominates at the top and throughout the list, as it has done for many years

    Taras Shevchenko National University (Kiev) in number 56, tied with Cornell (among others).
     
    ...and with Damascus among others, Damascus University probably doesn't shut-off the heating and close down large parts of its campus for months during winter,

    Lvov University is simply not the joint 14-th-31st list type of University ( you could easily say 31st as 14th so I will put it at 20th place), it has a very average reputation in everything, absolutely nothing of repute in the post-Soviet sphere, European sphere or world sphere....the other universities in the east and Kiev more focused on study of things actual relevant to the "Ukrainian" economy in the science, technology and humanities...and all this average reputation , all this focus on an unproductive IT sector...and regional Russian Universities , fighting for a decent budget , are still are outperforming/the same as Lvov in programming and much superior in many many other subjects

    As for Oxford and Cambridge...I don't think they even have a strong reputation in Information Technology at research level(Manchester University was probably more useful in the initial development of computers)

    and I'm not even talking about Russian Universities total dominance of the top 10 positions every year this decade and Saint Petersburg University were due a "normal " year

    Uzhhorod State University in 31st place, tied with Novosbirsk and Oxford (among others)
     
    ....Uzhgorod ( gee...that Uzh and gorod sounds like a russian composite...oh, yes quite normal in a fake country like Ukraine)

    as expected and as I said …nowhere

    You need to read things several times to understand them.

    Your link:

    https://icpc.baylor.edu/worldfinals/results

    Your claim:

    As expected Ukraine and Estonia…nowhere,

    Reality:

    Lviv National University at 14th place

    So, not nowhere.

    Lvov University is simply not the joint 14-th-31st list type of University ( you could easily say 31st as 14th so I will put it at 20th place

    You couldn’t understand that it was a tie. 6 problems were solved. There is no ranking within that group, they are all tied at 14th place because they solved the same number of problems.

    it has a very average reputation in everything

    A claim made by you, who cannot even read, as we have seen.

    According to this link, it scored 14th place, tied with Stanford and Saint Petersburg State University.

    Here are results from 2017:

    https://icpc.baylor.edu/community/results-2017

    Lviv National University is in 20th place, tied with MIT and St. Petersburg Academic University.

    Uzhorod at #34, tied with MGU, Novosibirsk and UC Berkely.

    Results 2016:

    https://icpc.baylor.edu/community/results-2016

    Lviv is in 11th place in the world. Not tied with anyone. Above MGU, St. Petersburg Academic University, etc.

    [MORE]

    Retard2 does what Retard2 does best – fail.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Gerard2


    ...more time wasting , imbecilic retardedness.
    You get exposed as an imbecile.....so continue more time-wasting , lie bollocks.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • I got the opportunity to meet up with commenter AP this week. Had a very pleasant conversation with him, if a pretty short one as was necessitated by his busy schedule.

    Lol…..you met this freak……your own stalker? Don’t believe it
    this retard spams comments on here, not on a pro-Ukrainian blog( because in that fuckedup country nonse exists in either the “Ukraine” itself or in Nazi-Bandera animal rapist )…this is obviously because he’s a spamtroll attenti0nwhore with the brain of a flea and obvious mental problems and nothing else to do. Like those facts of the pipelines underneath an icerink cumulatively add up to the whole diameter…this utter freak’s imbecile comments in one month add up to years or even decades worth of what a normal person’s is.

    was necessitated by his busy schedule.

    ..spends all his time making obsessive, fantasist million posts on here , but has a “busy schedule”? haha- bullshit on an intolerable level.

    We all make our posts based on our own life experiences and knowledge——this POS does it from Wikipedia

    This obviously a not real meeting, and the only possible explanation is that we have a Norman Bates/mother scenario going here. Think about it. What does a blogger want? Comments. This fictitious lying, dumb as fuck idiot “AP” provides, this, inane, stupid, liar comments that try and provoke others into creating more comments. It’s a creation of Karlin

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  • @AP

    https://icpc.baylor.edu/worldfinals/results

    As expected Ukraine and Estonia…nowhere, Russia winning massively
     

    From the link:

    Lviv National University tied with St. Petersburg State University and Stanford (among others) in 14th place. Top Ukrainian ranking.

    Uzhhorod State University in 31st place, tied with Novosbirsk and Oxford (among others).

    Taras Shevchenko National University (Kiev) in number 56, tied with Cornell (among others).

    Retard2 can't read.

    as expected and as I said …nowhere you dipshit…the ratio and sheer number of Russian dominates at the top and throughout the list, as it has done for many years

    Taras Shevchenko National University (Kiev) in number 56, tied with Cornell (among others).

    …and with Damascus among others, Damascus University probably doesn’t shut-off the heating and close down large parts of its campus for months during winter,

    Lvov University is simply not the joint 14-th-31st list type of University ( you could easily say 31st as 14th so I will put it at 20th place), it has a very average reputation in everything, absolutely nothing of repute in the post-Soviet sphere, European sphere or world sphere….the other universities in the east and Kiev more focused on study of things actual relevant to the “Ukrainian” economy in the science, technology and humanities…and all this average reputation , all this focus on an unproductive IT sector…and regional Russian Universities , fighting for a decent budget , are still are outperforming/the same as Lvov in programming and much superior in many many other subjects

    As for Oxford and Cambridge…I don’t think they even have a strong reputation in Information Technology at research level(Manchester University was probably more useful in the initial development of computers)

    and I’m not even talking about Russian Universities total dominance of the top 10 positions every year this decade and Saint Petersburg University were due a “normal ” year

    Uzhhorod State University in 31st place, tied with Novosbirsk and Oxford (among others)

    ….Uzhgorod ( gee…that Uzh and gorod sounds like a russian composite…oh, yes quite normal in a fake country like Ukraine)

    Read More
    • Replies: @AP

    as expected and as I said …nowhere
     
    You need to read things several times to understand them.

    Your link:

    https://icpc.baylor.edu/worldfinals/results

    Your claim:

    As expected Ukraine and Estonia…nowhere,

    Reality:

    Lviv National University at 14th place

    So, not nowhere.

    Lvov University is simply not the joint 14-th-31st list type of University ( you could easily say 31st as 14th so I will put it at 20th place
     
    You couldn't understand that it was a tie. 6 problems were solved. There is no ranking within that group, they are all tied at 14th place because they solved the same number of problems.

    it has a very average reputation in everything
     
    A claim made by you, who cannot even read, as we have seen.

    According to this link, it scored 14th place, tied with Stanford and Saint Petersburg State University.

    Here are results from 2017:

    https://icpc.baylor.edu/community/results-2017

    Lviv National University is in 20th place, tied with MIT and St. Petersburg Academic University.

    Uzhorod at #34, tied with MGU, Novosibirsk and UC Berkely.

    Results 2016:

    https://icpc.baylor.edu/community/results-2016

    Lviv is in 11th place in the world. Not tied with anyone. Above MGU, St. Petersburg Academic University, etc.



    Retard2 does what Retard2 does best - fail.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Read More
    • Replies: @for-the-record
    I like how a political party can sue Russia.

    Very easily, and there is the precedent of Iran (probably others as well):

    Iran Still Owes $53 Billion in Unpaid U.S. Court Judgments to American Victims of Iranian Terrorism

    The U.S. Supreme Court ruled on April 20 that nearly $2 billion in frozen Iranian government funds must be turned over to injured survivors and families of Americans killed in the 1983 bombing of the U.S. Marine Corps barracks in Beirut and other attacks for which Iran was found liable by U.S. courts. This is an important, but only partial, step towards compensating American victims of Iranian terrorism.

    Even after the nearly $2 billion is used as compensation, American victims of Iranian terrorism will still hold some $53 billion in outstanding federal court judgments against Iranian government entities and officials.

    http://www.defenddemocracy.org/media-hit/orde-kittrie-after-supreme-court-decision-iran-still-owes-53-billion-in-unpaid-us-cour/

     

    Lots of Russian assets in the US (currency reserves, etc.) if they want to up the pressure.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Dmitry
    Sure, religions are always popular and will outlast us all, although probably amongst diminishing congregations. They can even come back from the dead, like Rodnoveriye.

    But the political and military power of the Muslim world has been in constant decline. A thousand years ago - they ruled half world and were expanding, with the world's best armies and leading technology.

    And today - well Sunnis are 1.5 billion people. But they cannot even know what to do with Assad - without permission from Putin or Trump.

    Russia has less than 150 million people, and a history of economic failure. And yet even then, it seems in reality, has more military and geopolitical power than the Muslim world, or 1.5 billion Sunnis.

    As for the future - I do not see contrary trends. Islam will remain a popular religion, but I don't think Saudi Arabia, Turkey or Iran will to become the next super-powers.

    The Islamic world is also going through demographic transition, and will follow the downsizing pattern of Western countries as they continue to develop economically.

    That's not to say the Christian world is not also losing relative share of power in the future.

    On the other hand, relative power of Confucians and Hindus will surely increase over the next century.

    They can even come back from the dead, like Rodnoveriye.

    This is not bringing it back. Once a religion is dead, it cannot be brought back – they have started a new religion making assumptions about what the religion was in the past. This is another mistake many Westerners make; religion is not books – it is people and institutions, it is a living and breathing reality. Once it is dead, it cannot be brought back to life. Just as Elvis impersonators aren’t Elvis.

    But the political and military power of the Muslim world has been in constant decline.

    We’ve reached a nadir before and in fact we are not in decline, we have been bouncing back (slowly – as we usually do) from our lowest point which was under European colonization. The whole of the Muslim world (minus one or two exceptions like Turkey and Afghanistan) were under European hegemony. That ended relatively recently – my father is old enough to remember the days of independence of the majority of Muslim countries.

    I had recently brought up an example; the Netherlands and Indonesia. The Dutch used to run Indonesia, do you think that is remotely possible right now? What about France and her many colonies; maybe she could try to take Algeria again – it would be difficult, but that would basically be it – she wouldn’t be able to take on the multiple colonies she used to have.

    The Muslim countries are steadily cooperating to make their own armaments and defense compacts; Turkey is going to work with Pakistan and they have already produced a medium tank with Indonesia. So I simply don’t see the constant decline when looking at things from a holistic perspective.

    Our issue is that we are divided – that is what we have to overcome, we were already warned of this:
    “And obey Allah and His Messenger; and fall not into disputes, lest you lose heart and your power depart; and be patient and persevering: For Allah is with those who patiently persevere:” (8:46)

    Russia has less than 150 million people, and a history of economic failure. And yet even then, it seems in reality, has more military and geopolitical power than the Muslim world, or 1.5 billion Sunnis.

    Well, part of that is how the UN is set up – she sits on the security council permanently. But her influence in the Muslim world is not without cooperation of parts of the Muslim world. For instance, some of her goals in Syria had to be worked out with a quid-pro-quo with Turkey.

    Islam will remain a popular religion, but I don’t think Saudi Arabia, Turkey or Iran will to become the next super-powers.

    That’s fine, that’s only the goal if one makes it so – most Muslims I know would be perfectly fine with the capability to fend off unwarranted aggression against Muslim lands like the war on Iraq without the need to participate in king-of-the-hill.

    I still don’t think you are seeing what I’m getting at. The strength of Islam is not in the material realm – it is in the ability to give people hope and guidance in how to live their lives. For example; the Mongol and Turkic people completely decimated half the Muslim world. Millions killed, cities razed, all that stuff – established the largest empire known to man at the time. The Muslims they had conquered were completely under their thumb. But then what happened – did Tengrism all of a sudden become the dominant religion of those lands or Mongol culture? No – they eventually became Muslim, piece by piece, and got absorbed into the local populations.

    The Islamic world is also going through demographic transition, and will follow the downsizing pattern of Western countries as they continue to develop economically.

    Possible, but I’m not sure the Muslim world will ever reach the same material level as the West (nor do I see any reason that that is even desirable).

    China has come up again and again – so it’s good to take a look at it as an example:

    https://www.economist.com/news/china/21729573-no-province-has-many-babies-some-shortfalls-are-much-worse-others-chinas-demographic

    Contestant: “Alex, I’ll take Modern China for $600.”
    Trebek: “Beijing, Shanghai and Tianjin.”
    Contestant: “What are three shiny graveyards where Chinese go to work on technology before dying?”

    Please read Technopoly:

    http://www.scottlondon.com/reviews/postman.html

    https://www.amazon.com/Technopoly-Surrender-Technology-Neil-Postman/dp/0679745408

    Islam is not interested in signing up with what everyone else is doing, it is interested in offering an alternative…

    (Source) https://iasp.info/pdf/papers/Bertolote.pdf

    …life.

    “O you who believe, respond to Allah and to the Messenger when he calls you to that which gives you life. And know that Allah intervenes between a man and his heart and that to Him you will be gathered.” (8:24)

    “And be not like those who forgot Allah, so He made them forget their own selves. Those are the defiantly disobedient.” (59:19)

    Like I said – this is a metaphysical question which you are trying to assess by the wrong metrics – and incorrect ones at that.

    Peace.

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  • @Mr. Hack

    Or you can take an overnight train from Lviv to Kiev. It is dirt cheap, and very nice (air-conditioning, clean, etc.). You get get a kupe with 4 beds and chat with the random people in your compartment.
     
    Highly recommended. The train ride from Kyiv to Dnepropetrivsk is quite long and allowed me the opportunity to really get to know strangers in an intimate way. The highway between Chernivtsy and Kamienets Podilsk is scenic, not to mention that both towns are worth visiting and seeing.

    Yes, long train trips are a good way of meeting and chatting with locals. This is also true of Russia.

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  • @AP
    Your goals and approach are excellent. The best way of doing so would be to go with a local- you have Ukrainian friends, might one of them be visiting home? I have family in a village 3 hours from Kiev. When I come it is a feast, different waves of food, my uncle's homemade salo, vodka. People talk about their lives, etc. A cousin served in ATO, another one is planning to go to Poland for a few months, etc. Then we wander around the village, to the cemetery, chat with neighbors curious about the Americans in the village. Kids run around, there are cats and dogs and geese, kids use an old bed frame with springs as a trampoline...

    As you know, Ukrainian culture (like Finnish, or Slovak, or Baltic) is traditionally rural-based. But for an outsider to penetrate it would be difficult. How would, for example, a French visitor without local connections, experience what a Polish village is all about? I can only thing of joining a friend on a visit home, if he is a close friend perhaps he can arrange a visit out to the countryside.

    Otherwise, just driving around rural roads would be nice. But be very aware that the roads are sometimes in horrible condition, so get full insurance coverage on any rental car. I destroyed a tire and even part of a car's underframe when I got lost in the middle of nowhere in Ternopil oblast. Friendly random villagers changed the tire for me (I got to hear the old Galician speech, absent in Lviv). But it's nice to see the countryside, with its shrines, fresh springwater, villages and churches.

    I would recommend that you travel with at least one other person, if you don't hire a local guide for the trip.

    I’d also be interested if you have any thoughts on what to see outside the major cities. I am primarily very interested in learning about Ukrainian culture and history first and foremost, rather than trying to shoe-horn in a Polish angle in every activity.
     
    There are excellent tours in Lviv (ok, a major city). Poles usually take tours with Polish tour guides, you'll want to try a Ukrainian one instead and explicitly request that you want to hear the Ukrainian POV about everything. I think they would be very happy to share it. A Polish friend hired a guy who took him to his ancestral villages, this may have been a lot more expensive. But you can ask in Lviv at tourist offices if you can get someone to accompany you for a day into the countryside. Some of of the guides are history students.

    One can drive from Lviv to Kiev through Zhytomir on good roads. Zhytomir is a small city that rarely gets visitors because there isn't much to see, but it will give you a taste of the unknown country. Another unknown city worth seeing would be Vynnytsia; both the president and PM are from here and supposedly the place is booming. However, the road to here from Lviv is awful - hundreds of km of miserable driving.

    Carpathians might be too touristy and less "natural" than places like Vynnytsia or Zhytomir, but they are beautiful.

    Or you can take an overnight train from Lviv to Kiev. It is dirt cheap, and very nice (air-conditioning, clean, etc.). You get get a kupe with 4 beds and chat with the random people in your compartment.

    A Polish journalist interviewed a Right Sector leader:

    http://euromaidanpress.com/2018/02/22/poland-journalist-talks-nationalism-with-ukraine-right-sector-leader/

    I have no contacts with RS but presenting yourself as a curious open-minded friendly Pole might get you some interesting local contacts through them. You'll probably hear a lot of criticism about Poland's history law.

    Or you can take an overnight train from Lviv to Kiev. It is dirt cheap, and very nice (air-conditioning, clean, etc.). You get get a kupe with 4 beds and chat with the random people in your compartment.

    Highly recommended. The train ride from Kyiv to Dnepropetrivsk is quite long and allowed me the opportunity to really get to know strangers in an intimate way. The highway between Chernivtsy and Kamienets Podilsk is scenic, not to mention that both towns are worth visiting and seeing.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AP
    Yes, long train trips are a good way of meeting and chatting with locals. This is also true of Russia.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Polish Perspective
    Thanks for the great write-up. I'll certainly be looking at Kharkiv, too. I'd also be interested if you have any thoughts on what to see outside the major cities. I am primarily very interested in learning about Ukrainian culture and history first and foremost, rather than trying to shoe-horn in a Polish angle in every activity. In my view, travel should be about learning about other cultures as much as possible (that's probably the most unironic SJW belief I have, and one I hold strongly attached to).

    I will have a recently short summer vacation this year (<4 weeks), lots of work to do so I'm planning to do most of this in July or so, therefore, are there any seasonal things to think about? Maybe vaccinations of some kind if I'm going into fields and forests? Thinking about TBE for instance.

    Your goals and approach are excellent. The best way of doing so would be to go with a local- you have Ukrainian friends, might one of them be visiting home? I have family in a village 3 hours from Kiev. When I come it is a feast, different waves of food, my uncle’s homemade salo, vodka. People talk about their lives, etc. A cousin served in ATO, another one is planning to go to Poland for a few months, etc. Then we wander around the village, to the cemetery, chat with neighbors curious about the Americans in the village. Kids run around, there are cats and dogs and geese, kids use an old bed frame with springs as a trampoline…

    As you know, Ukrainian culture (like Finnish, or Slovak, or Baltic) is traditionally rural-based. But for an outsider to penetrate it would be difficult. How would, for example, a French visitor without local connections, experience what a Polish village is all about? I can only thing of joining a friend on a visit home, if he is a close friend perhaps he can arrange a visit out to the countryside.

    Otherwise, just driving around rural roads would be nice. But be very aware that the roads are sometimes in horrible condition, so get full insurance coverage on any rental car. I destroyed a tire and even part of a car’s underframe when I got lost in the middle of nowhere in Ternopil oblast. Friendly random villagers changed the tire for me (I got to hear the old Galician speech, absent in Lviv). But it’s nice to see the countryside, with its shrines, fresh springwater, villages and churches.

    I would recommend that you travel with at least one other person, if you don’t hire a local guide for the trip.

    I’d also be interested if you have any thoughts on what to see outside the major cities. I am primarily very interested in learning about Ukrainian culture and history first and foremost, rather than trying to shoe-horn in a Polish angle in every activity.

    There are excellent tours in Lviv (ok, a major city). Poles usually take tours with Polish tour guides, you’ll want to try a Ukrainian one instead and explicitly request that you want to hear the Ukrainian POV about everything. I think they would be very happy to share it. A Polish friend hired a guy who took him to his ancestral villages, this may have been a lot more expensive. But you can ask in Lviv at tourist offices if you can get someone to accompany you for a day into the countryside. Some of of the guides are history students.

    One can drive from Lviv to Kiev through Zhytomir on good roads. Zhytomir is a small city that rarely gets visitors because there isn’t much to see, but it will give you a taste of the unknown country. Another unknown city worth seeing would be Vynnytsia; both the president and PM are from here and supposedly the place is booming. However, the road to here from Lviv is awful – hundreds of km of miserable driving.

    Carpathians might be too touristy and less “natural” than places like Vynnytsia or Zhytomir, but they are beautiful.

    Or you can take an overnight train from Lviv to Kiev. It is dirt cheap, and very nice (air-conditioning, clean, etc.). You get get a kupe with 4 beds and chat with the random people in your compartment.

    A Polish journalist interviewed a Right Sector leader:

    http://euromaidanpress.com/2018/02/22/poland-journalist-talks-nationalism-with-ukraine-right-sector-leader/

    I have no contacts with RS but presenting yourself as a curious open-minded friendly Pole might get you some interesting local contacts through them. You’ll probably hear a lot of criticism about Poland’s history law.

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    • Agree: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack

    Or you can take an overnight train from Lviv to Kiev. It is dirt cheap, and very nice (air-conditioning, clean, etc.). You get get a kupe with 4 beds and chat with the random people in your compartment.
     
    Highly recommended. The train ride from Kyiv to Dnepropetrivsk is quite long and allowed me the opportunity to really get to know strangers in an intimate way. The highway between Chernivtsy and Kamienets Podilsk is scenic, not to mention that both towns are worth visiting and seeing.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Duke of Qin, you need your own blog. Your comments on China are fascinating, especially Chinese history. You should expand them in the written form and organise them in one place.

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  • @AP
    I was in Ukraine in the summer of 2017. My previous trip had been in 2013, so I can compare before and after Maidan.

    Lviv is a jewel. It is certainly worth seeing. It's a beautiful city. It has really transformed itself. In the 90s it was in horrible shape; in 2002 when I visited the first signs of life had appeared - a few great restaurants, but the city was still mostly crumbling. No electricity after 9 PM, which was bad for locals but wonderful for tourists. Imagine being in the 17th century center of a city of 800,000 and being able to see the stars as if in the deep mountains. It would be like stepping back in time in Prague or Krakow. By 2011 the city was about 80% restored (that is, 4 in 5 buildings were remade, occupied, there was still some crumbling or gaps in development). By 2013, 95% restored. In 2017, the center had little room for improvement, but luxury stores such as Emporio Armani have appeared, and large malls have been built in the suburbs as they have expanded.

    Good food, good beer. All Europeans. Occasional nationalist protests. Very cheap for peole with foreign currency. I suspect that because of the hrynia drop a lot of people from Kiev who previously would have gone to Prague now come to Lviv for short holidays, there is more Russian spoken in the cafes than before (and I doubt, by tourists from Russia). In 2013 I saw a huge anti-gay religious protest, led by columns of priests and nuns marching in step, followed by laypeople singing religious songs. It was very impressive.

    A video:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTY7xx0Zdnw

    Lviv's tech industry is expanding rapidly and even for not highly educated people there are a lot of light industrial plants being opened.

    Locals tend to be friendly and nice towards Poles but be prepared for possible annoyances - the locals have erased a lot of Polish history, and Banderism is everywhere, though sometimes it is kitschy and tongue-in-cheek. There is a restaurant with an indoor shooting range where you an shoot Stalin or Putin, and it serves dishes called "meat of drowned Moskal." Some actual Banderists are offended by this place. Banderism in its modern form is anti-Russian, not really anti-Polish (indeed, it sees Poland as a model) unless provoked. Russian nationalists, naturally, want to have it provoked by Poles.

    Ivano-Frankivsk is about as nice as Lviv, but smaller (haven't been there). Ternopil (have been there), for some reason, has skipped development and is depressing. If a Russian nationalist would want to make a dishonest video of western Ukraine being poor and depressed, he should avoid Lviv and come to Ternopil.

    Kiev is worth seeing for political reasons - it is the capital and largest city, and commercial center. But it is like Warsaw to Lviv's Krakow - not as beautiful. Moscow is much prettier. Though Kiev has more trees than Moscow, nice beaches on the river, it is less hectic and has some easy-going sort of charm. It used to have a very active punk scene, and friends from Moscow who are into that used to even fly down to go to concerts. I have no idea if this is still the case, Muscovites have been made unwelcome there now.

    In 2017 Kiev had seen slight decline from 2013. While Lviv stores and cafes are packed, and new malls being opened, in Kiev they are not empty but not so busy either. I didn't see empty or closed places, just not very busy ones, and some residential construction, but it has been modest. Still plenty of traffic, it's not a dead city by any means. National Art Gallery is very nice, the old churches and monasteries are worth seeing too.

    So Kiev is worth seeing to get a better picture of Ukraine but Lviv is much more pleasant and fun. I would recommend seeing Kharkiv too to get a full picture of the country, but I haven't gone there.

    Trains are great.

    Everywhere in Ukraine one comes across recently demobilized ATO soldiers in uniform, from time to time. This was different from 2013. Kiev has become pretty nationalist, but still Russian-speaking. It has surpassed 2013 Galicia's level of nationalism.

    Thanks for the great write-up. I’ll certainly be looking at Kharkiv, too. I’d also be interested if you have any thoughts on what to see outside the major cities. I am primarily very interested in learning about Ukrainian culture and history first and foremost, rather than trying to shoe-horn in a Polish angle in every activity. In my view, travel should be about learning about other cultures as much as possible (that’s probably the most unironic SJW belief I have, and one I hold strongly attached to).

    I will have a recently short summer vacation this year (<4 weeks), lots of work to do so I'm planning to do most of this in July or so, therefore, are there any seasonal things to think about? Maybe vaccinations of some kind if I'm going into fields and forests? Thinking about TBE for instance.

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    • Replies: @AP
    Your goals and approach are excellent. The best way of doing so would be to go with a local- you have Ukrainian friends, might one of them be visiting home? I have family in a village 3 hours from Kiev. When I come it is a feast, different waves of food, my uncle's homemade salo, vodka. People talk about their lives, etc. A cousin served in ATO, another one is planning to go to Poland for a few months, etc. Then we wander around the village, to the cemetery, chat with neighbors curious about the Americans in the village. Kids run around, there are cats and dogs and geese, kids use an old bed frame with springs as a trampoline...

    As you know, Ukrainian culture (like Finnish, or Slovak, or Baltic) is traditionally rural-based. But for an outsider to penetrate it would be difficult. How would, for example, a French visitor without local connections, experience what a Polish village is all about? I can only thing of joining a friend on a visit home, if he is a close friend perhaps he can arrange a visit out to the countryside.

    Otherwise, just driving around rural roads would be nice. But be very aware that the roads are sometimes in horrible condition, so get full insurance coverage on any rental car. I destroyed a tire and even part of a car's underframe when I got lost in the middle of nowhere in Ternopil oblast. Friendly random villagers changed the tire for me (I got to hear the old Galician speech, absent in Lviv). But it's nice to see the countryside, with its shrines, fresh springwater, villages and churches.

    I would recommend that you travel with at least one other person, if you don't hire a local guide for the trip.

    I’d also be interested if you have any thoughts on what to see outside the major cities. I am primarily very interested in learning about Ukrainian culture and history first and foremost, rather than trying to shoe-horn in a Polish angle in every activity.
     
    There are excellent tours in Lviv (ok, a major city). Poles usually take tours with Polish tour guides, you'll want to try a Ukrainian one instead and explicitly request that you want to hear the Ukrainian POV about everything. I think they would be very happy to share it. A Polish friend hired a guy who took him to his ancestral villages, this may have been a lot more expensive. But you can ask in Lviv at tourist offices if you can get someone to accompany you for a day into the countryside. Some of of the guides are history students.

    One can drive from Lviv to Kiev through Zhytomir on good roads. Zhytomir is a small city that rarely gets visitors because there isn't much to see, but it will give you a taste of the unknown country. Another unknown city worth seeing would be Vynnytsia; both the president and PM are from here and supposedly the place is booming. However, the road to here from Lviv is awful - hundreds of km of miserable driving.

    Carpathians might be too touristy and less "natural" than places like Vynnytsia or Zhytomir, but they are beautiful.

    Or you can take an overnight train from Lviv to Kiev. It is dirt cheap, and very nice (air-conditioning, clean, etc.). You get get a kupe with 4 beds and chat with the random people in your compartment.

    A Polish journalist interviewed a Right Sector leader:

    http://euromaidanpress.com/2018/02/22/poland-journalist-talks-nationalism-with-ukraine-right-sector-leader/

    I have no contacts with RS but presenting yourself as a curious open-minded friendly Pole might get you some interesting local contacts through them. You'll probably hear a lot of criticism about Poland's history law.
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  • @utu
    DDR was great. Kind of boring and and little bit depressing but I always enjoyed going there. Bohemia and Moravia was comparable imo and was a little bit more fun.

    DDR was better than other Eastern Bloc countries, but still not great. The two-stroke engine cars (we also had a Wartburg, so I know what I’m talking about) were horribly loud with very high pollution levels.

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  • AP says:
    @Duke of Qin
    Not true, the Chinese were there first. Chinese rule over the territory that now encompasses Xinjiang has been sporadic but it has spanned several centuries and was first established as early as the 2nd century BCE. China's most famous poet was born just outside of Bishkek Kyrgyzstan in 701 CE. Chinese present continuous rule over the area has dated since 1756 after the last Mongol Khanate was wiped out of existence.

    The Turkic Uyghurs swept into the region from what is now Mongolia back in the 10th century and basically demographically obliterated the Indo-European, more specifically Eastern Iranian, peoples who were native before the Chinese arrived.

    The best European parallel I can draw is that the Uyghurs are essentially Anglo-Saxon invaders vis-a-vis Britain and the Han Chinese are the Romans. Yes we aren't native and ancient invaders at that, but our claim is older than that of the barbarians who now have the gall to claim that this is their homeland when their actual original Urheimat is now in Mongolia. They are now Turks, and Sunni muslim ones at that compared to polyglot Christian, Manichaen, Zoroastrian, Buddhist, and even Hellenistic Pagan original inhabitants. There is one community in Xinjiang that can actually be considered autochthonous to the region and it isn't the Turk Uyghurs, but rather the Iranian Pamiri Tajiks of Xinjiang. They are still primarily Indo-European and actually speak the closest living descendant of the extinct Tocharian language. Not only that, but they aren't Sunni but rather Ismaili Shia. These people would be analogous to the Welsh to carry my Britain analogy further.

    Yes we aren’t native and ancient invaders at that, but our claim is older than that of the barbarians who now have the gall to claim that this is their homeland when their actual original Urheimat is now in Mongolia. They are now Turks, and Sunni muslim ones at that compared to polyglot Christian, Manichaen, Zoroastrian, Buddhist, and even Hellenistic Pagan original inhabitants.

    Corect, but genetic research (as visual images) of Uighurs show that they have some, on average 30% – 40%, descent of the original Indo-European inhabitants – although sadly all traces of the culture, language, religions have been obliterated, only phenotypes remain.

    The best European parallel I can draw is that the Uyghurs are essentially Anglo-Saxon invaders vis-a-vis Britain and the Han Chinese are the Romans.

    A good analogy. To make it complete – the Anglo-Saxons would be about 30%-40% Celtic in descent, despite losing the language and religion (which is actually the case of the English people, if I am not mistaken).

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  • @AP
    Didn't the Turkic Uighurs overrun the Indo-Europeans Tocharians and mixed with them? Tocharia was ancient:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tocharians

    And existed in what is now modern China.

    You know much more about this than I do, but it seems that the partial Indo-European heritage of the Uighurs is undeniable. Perhaps the Qing expanded their settlements.

    To be more specific, the Uyghur population prior to the 18th century was primarily concentrated along the very southern strip of Xinjiang along a series of oasis city-statelets. Their self-proclaimed title of “East Turkestan” is actually a transliteration from 19th century Russian because Chinese Turkestan obviously which was also in use at the time doesn’t have quite the same ring. Xinjiang is de-facto a combination of two geographically disparate areas by the Chinese, the southern Tarim basin where the Uyghurs originally dwelled and the northern Dzunghar region which is part of the central Asian Steppe and hence previously occupied by Mongols. By the 19th century, the Chinese were already 30% of the population but were reduced to less than 10% by the 20th century via massacre during the muslim rebellions spanning the 1860′s-70′s. Another lie of omission by the Turk Islamic scum claiming that there were never any Chinese there prior to the Communist takeover. Chinese are now about 40% of the total population and the settlement patterns follow historical records. The counties in Northern Xinjiang are actually majority Han, those in the South are majority Uyghur. The majority of Uyghurs of Urumqi, the capital which is in the north are actually very recent economic immigrants themselves.

    The Qing had a very soft touch in Xinjiang prior to putting down the Islamic rebellion. The Uyghurs pretty much governed themselves as individual city states under local begs who were the only ones who had to be Sinicized and the area was actually known locally under its Iranian name of Altishar rather than that Turkestan nonsense. It’s a fitting name because each of the oasis cities on the southern rim of the Tarim basin was functionally independent of each other prior to the aftermath of the rebllion. After the muslim rebellion triggered by the Hui and that Kazakh interloper Yaqub was put down, all of the loyalist Begs and the traitor ones too were basically dead so Chinese rule became much more direct and it’s administrative structure changed to the provincial system seen everywhere else in China.

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  • @Daniel Chieh
    Hui are 90% Han, yes, but I think it has more to do with not going into murder sprees than anything else:

    On 18 September 2015 in Aksu, an unidentified group of knife-wielding men attacked sleeping workers at a coalmine and at least 50 people were killed.
     

    A 11 March 2015 knife attack in Urumqi was called a "jihadi operation" by the TIP.The party praised the kidnapping of an "apostate" Uyghur who was a police officer in Hotan,a 5 May attack on a train station by "Uyghur mujahideen"and a 22 June attack by "Uyghur fidayeen" was celebrated by the TIP
     

    On 30 August 2016, the Kyrgyzstan Chinese Embassy was struck by a suicide bombing by an Uyghur, according to Kyrgyz news.The suicide bomber was the only fatality from the attack. The casualties included wounds suffered by Kyrgyz staff members and did not include Chinese. Nusra allied Syrian based Uyghurs were involved in the Kyrgyzstan Chinese embassy bombing
     



    On 14 February 2017, three knife wielding attackers killed five people before being killed by police.... Motorized transport, aircraft and police were involved. The terrorist group ISIS released a video calling for separatist terror attacks in China in March 2017
     

    I have no idea what drives your apologia towards the Hui, but they are as murderous as any other Sunni Islamist scum can be. Being Muslim means they have turned their backs on being Chinese forever.

    You are forgetting that the Hui rebellions preceeded and probably kicked off the Uyghur rebellions and when push came to shove, most of them sided with their Islamic “brethren” to murder Han Chinese. The only reason they are quiescent now is that the aftermath of their failed Islamic uprising saw all the Jahriyya muslims massacred just as they had done to their non muslim neighbors.

    To help people understand just how not loyal the Hui are, one only has to look at their descendants, the Dunggans of Kazakhstan. These were the descendants of small communities of muslim “refugees” who settled in areas under Russian control after the failed Hui rebellions. This community is quite unique in Kazakhstan compared to some other distant settlers such as the shrinking Germans and Koreans in several particular ways. Most notably is that they are 1) much more endogamous than the other minorities 2) still actually speak a bastardized form of zhongyuan mandarin 3) much more religious than the Kazakhs at large. In fact, contrary to both their neighbors and their ancestors, this community practices very early marriages and still has relatively larger families. Why is their behavior so atypical? Because their 19th century ancestors were straight up Islamic Jihadists fleeing not from persecution but from reprisal after having been defeated.

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  • @utu

    They seem to be on their native land, I have some sympathy.
     
    Exactly. Uyghurs were where they are before Chinese got there. I am really surprised that seemingly reasonable commenters on this blog can be so easily sicced against them by Duke of Qin.

    Not true, the Chinese were there first. Chinese rule over the territory that now encompasses Xinjiang has been sporadic but it has spanned several centuries and was first established as early as the 2nd century BCE. China’s most famous poet was born just outside of Bishkek Kyrgyzstan in 701 CE. Chinese present continuous rule over the area has dated since 1756 after the last Mongol Khanate was wiped out of existence.

    The Turkic Uyghurs swept into the region from what is now Mongolia back in the 10th century and basically demographically obliterated the Indo-European, more specifically Eastern Iranian, peoples who were native before the Chinese arrived.

    The best European parallel I can draw is that the Uyghurs are essentially Anglo-Saxon invaders vis-a-vis Britain and the Han Chinese are the Romans. Yes we aren’t native and ancient invaders at that, but our claim is older than that of the barbarians who now have the gall to claim that this is their homeland when their actual original Urheimat is now in Mongolia. They are now Turks, and Sunni muslim ones at that compared to polyglot Christian, Manichaen, Zoroastrian, Buddhist, and even Hellenistic Pagan original inhabitants. There is one community in Xinjiang that can actually be considered autochthonous to the region and it isn’t the Turk Uyghurs, but rather the Iranian Pamiri Tajiks of Xinjiang. They are still primarily Indo-European and actually speak the closest living descendant of the extinct Tocharian language. Not only that, but they aren’t Sunni but rather Ismaili Shia. These people would be analogous to the Welsh to carry my Britain analogy further.

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    • Replies: @AP

    Yes we aren’t native and ancient invaders at that, but our claim is older than that of the barbarians who now have the gall to claim that this is their homeland when their actual original Urheimat is now in Mongolia. They are now Turks, and Sunni muslim ones at that compared to polyglot Christian, Manichaen, Zoroastrian, Buddhist, and even Hellenistic Pagan original inhabitants.
     
    Corect, but genetic research (as visual images) of Uighurs show that they have some, on average 30% - 40%, descent of the original Indo-European inhabitants - although sadly all traces of the culture, language, religions have been obliterated, only phenotypes remain.

    The best European parallel I can draw is that the Uyghurs are essentially Anglo-Saxon invaders vis-a-vis Britain and the Han Chinese are the Romans.
     
    A good analogy. To make it complete - the Anglo-Saxons would be about 30%-40% Celtic in descent, despite losing the language and religion (which is actually the case of the English people, if I am not mistaken).
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  • When Ukrainians leave Ukraine, their financial contribution corresponds to their estimated IQ:

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  • @Daniel Chieh
    Hmm, defining culture as entertainment production for the sake of exploration in this post:

    I think there is competing product out there - India comes to mind. I know that Turkey apparently had fairly good quality as well, and original Conan the Barbarian's director made an effort close to the end of years to cast a new Conan in Turkey. Its a pity that he didn't succeed - I do love the first Conan movie(and the Howard, for that matter).

    Gwern wrote an essay about this once and he noted that Japan's strength is that it just seems to produce a huge quantity of intellectual property in terms of fiction and art in spite of its not very large population. A huge quantity of it is copying each other, but activity is extremely high at imageboards(4chan was a copy of Futaba Channel) and there's an active local community for doujins, etc. There's an Indian analyst who talked about this and he mentioned that there's nothing at all comparable in India, for example.

    By the time something actually makes it to export, its usually among the best of the pile.

    I know that Turkey apparently had fairly good quality as well

    I’ve seen a couple of Turkish action/adventure movies from the 70s. I highly recommend TARKAN VERSUS THE VIKINGS. Silly but enormous fun.

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  • @songbird
    I've been saying for a long time that we need a new corruption index.

    A lot of the corruption in the West is codified into the system, so everyone plays make-believe that it doesn't exist. But, it does, and the scale of it is truly massive, and it impacts all levels of life.

    A lot of the corruption in the West is codified into the system, so everyone plays make-believe that it doesn’t exist. But, it does, and the scale of it is truly massive, and it impacts all levels of life.

    The West is certainly more corrupt, but it’s mostly corruption that is technically legal. Or at most borderline illegal and impossible to get convictions. It’s more dangerous because a lot of it is very high-level corruption – senior politicians, bureaucrats, top businessmen, senior military officers, judges, etc.

    The West has streamlined and modernised corruption. It no longer involves brown paper bags filled with bank notes being exchanged in dark alleys. It’s bribes in the form of political donations, or incredibly well-paid jobs involving no work being given in exchange for favours rendered.

    The idea that the West is less corrupt than the East or the Third World is one of those touching fantasies we cling to, like our belief that liberal democracy has some connection with actual democracy.

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  • AP says:
    @Gerard2
    https://icpc.baylor.edu/worldfinals/results


    As expected Ukraine and Estonia...nowhere, Russia winning massively

    Do the equivalent competition in many other scientific or arts fields...and expect more of the same

    https://icpc.baylor.edu/worldfinals/results

    As expected Ukraine and Estonia…nowhere, Russia winning massively

    From the link:

    Lviv National University tied with St. Petersburg State University and Stanford (among others) in 14th place. Top Ukrainian ranking.

    Uzhhorod State University in 31st place, tied with Novosbirsk and Oxford (among others).

    Taras Shevchenko National University (Kiev) in number 56, tied with Cornell (among others).

    Retard2 can’t read.

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    • Replies: @Gerard2
    as expected and as I said ...nowhere you dipshit...the ratio and sheer number of Russian dominates at the top and throughout the list, as it has done for many years

    Taras Shevchenko National University (Kiev) in number 56, tied with Cornell (among others).
     
    ...and with Damascus among others, Damascus University probably doesn't shut-off the heating and close down large parts of its campus for months during winter,

    Lvov University is simply not the joint 14-th-31st list type of University ( you could easily say 31st as 14th so I will put it at 20th place), it has a very average reputation in everything, absolutely nothing of repute in the post-Soviet sphere, European sphere or world sphere....the other universities in the east and Kiev more focused on study of things actual relevant to the "Ukrainian" economy in the science, technology and humanities...and all this average reputation , all this focus on an unproductive IT sector...and regional Russian Universities , fighting for a decent budget , are still are outperforming/the same as Lvov in programming and much superior in many many other subjects

    As for Oxford and Cambridge...I don't think they even have a strong reputation in Information Technology at research level(Manchester University was probably more useful in the initial development of computers)

    and I'm not even talking about Russian Universities total dominance of the top 10 positions every year this decade and Saint Petersburg University were due a "normal " year

    Uzhhorod State University in 31st place, tied with Novosbirsk and Oxford (among others)
     
    ....Uzhgorod ( gee...that Uzh and gorod sounds like a russian composite...oh, yes quite normal in a fake country like Ukraine)
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  • @for-the-record
    due to outside intervention and subversion

    By whom?

    Stalin.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_East_Turkestan_Republic

    The rebels engaged in massacres of Han Chinese civilians, especially targeting people affiliated with the KMT and Sheng Shicai. In the “Kulja Declaration” issued on 5 January 1945, the East Turkestan Republic proclaimed that it would “sweep away the Han Chinese”, threatening to extract a “blood debt” from the Han. The Declaration also declared that the Republic would seek to especially establish cordial ties with the Soviets. The ETR later deemphasized the anti-Han tone in their official proclamations after they were done massacring most of the Han civilians in their area

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  • @AP

    But you may still have rosy tinted views for Ukraine.
     
    Not really. I suggest you visit Lviv and and Kiev and then compare your impressions to mine. It seems that Russians often tend to treat Ukraine like Westerners treat Russia in terms of views of economic collapse.

    my two friends from Ukraine all have talked of the complete disaster for the last several years.
     
    It may depend on where they are from. Kharkiv and the East have had a rough time. Lviv is doing quite well. As are most of the areas between Lviv and Kiev, such as Zhytomir or Vynnytsia (I found Ternopil to be a strange anomaly). Kiev seems to have declined a little but is not doing badly at all. It feels slightly poorer, slightly quieter than it was before but was always the richest city in the country and still is, so it's not doing badly. AK's article seems to be right:

    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/ukrotriumph/

    Lviv is doing quite well

    hahaha! Lvov as 10th highest salary region of Ukraine, an African level country is “doing well” for an fantasist attention-whore scumbag as yourself. Pillock

    The city itself atrocious run , lost many people to Poland. huge problem with the rubbish collection, the tourist parts getting decayed (Russians pretty much the one and only tourists there, except “Ukrainians” themselves, bad roads and so forth

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  • anonymous[388] • Disclaimer says:
    @utu

    They seem to be on their native land, I have some sympathy.
     
    Exactly. Uyghurs were where they are before Chinese got there. I am really surprised that seemingly reasonable commenters on this blog can be so easily sicced against them by Duke of Qin.

    You don’t know what you are talking about. Uyghurs were not native and Chinese got there before they did.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Migration_to_Xinjiang

    Southern Xinjiang below the Tianshan had military colonies established in it by the Han dynasty.[6]

    Uyghur nationalist historians such as Turghun Almas claim that Uyghurs were distinct and independent from Chinese for 6000 years, and that all non-Uyghur peoples are non-indigenous immigrants to Xinjiang.[7] However, the Han Dynasty (206 BCE–220 CE) established military colonies (tuntian) and commanderies (duhufu) to control Xinjiang from 120 BCE, while the Tang Dynasty (618-907) also controlled much of Xinjiang until the An Lushan rebellion.[8] Chinese historians refute Uyghur nationalist claims by pointing out the 2000-year history of Han settlement in Xinjiang, documenting the history of Mongol, Kazakh, Uzbek, Manchu, Hui, Xibo indigenes in Xinjiang, and by emphasizing the relatively late “westward migration” of the Huigu (equated with “Uyghur” by the PRC government) people from Mongolia the 9th century.[7] The name “Uyghur” was associated with a Buddhist people in the Tarim Basin in the 9th century, but completely disappeared by the 15th century, until it was revived by the Soviet Union in the 20th century.[9]

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  • https://icpc.baylor.edu/worldfinals/results

    As expected Ukraine and Estonia…nowhere, Russia winning massively

    Do the equivalent competition in many other scientific or arts fields…and expect more of the same

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    • Replies: @AP

    https://icpc.baylor.edu/worldfinals/results

    As expected Ukraine and Estonia…nowhere, Russia winning massively
     

    From the link:

    Lviv National University tied with St. Petersburg State University and Stanford (among others) in 14th place. Top Ukrainian ranking.

    Uzhhorod State University in 31st place, tied with Novosbirsk and Oxford (among others).

    Taras Shevchenko National University (Kiev) in number 56, tied with Cornell (among others).

    Retard2 can't read.

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  • @reiner Tor
    I thought about the Mars project. How much would it cost? 50 billion? That’s the cost of a Sochi Olympics, and probably not only better PR, but also would result in the development of new technologies. For example the nuclear engine. That’d be cool. So I don’t think it’s the dumbest idea ever. Okay, dumb, but not very dumb.

    I thought about the Mars project. How much would it cost? 50 billion? That’s the cost of a Sochi Olympics, and probably not only better PR, but also would result in the development of new technologies. For example the nuclear engine. That’d be cool. So I don’t think it’s the dumbest idea ever. Okay, dumb, but not very dumb.

    And it would be a major morale-booster for Russia.

    And it would seriously piss off the Americans.

    What’s not to love about an idea like that?

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  • @Dmitry

    So interesting you say this. I would definitely agree with you when it comes to environments that are basically free-fire zones; nobody wants to live there. People like stability for sure.

    I actually find those countries less stressful if one is simply willing to relax and not have the same expectations as in the West; things will not be done in an orderly manner, they won’t get done right away, close your eyes when in a taxi so you don’t see the maniac way your driver is ducking in and out of traffic, be willing to put away some of your individual preference to merge in with local culture, etc.

    Those places seem more relaxed and allow much more time for family, leisure, and (gasp!) prayer.

    But if you expect Morocco or Egypt to function like Paris – then you will be disappointed for your inane assumptions.
     
    For most people, this environment (Middle Eastern war countries) is only survivable if you have a lot of family and friends in the location - and even then you still have to be mentally tough person.

    Israel is a very tough and stressful place to live (too much for most Westerners). So you can't imagine what Iraq, Syria, Gaza, would be like now.

    Whereas Western Europe and North America is the opposite - you can easily move there, even without knowing anyone. And you don't need to be tough at all - life is on a silver platter, even for immigrants (let alone for the locals of Western countries, who are the most spoiled and fortunate populations in human history).

    So you can’t imagine what Iraq, Syria, Gaza, would be like now

    Interesting selection, in these three places most of the stress can safely be said to be externally induced.

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