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All Comments / On "Chechnya"
 All Comments / On "Chechnya"
    This is the startling hypothesis advanced by elections observer Alexander Kireev. Here's the thing. Elections in Chechnya have been completely falsified since 2003, reaching "totalitarian" levels of 99% turnout/99% pro-Kremlin vote by 2011-12 (versus the merely "authoritarian" 90/90 levels of the other Caucasus republics). In line with the reduction of fraud levels in the 2018...
  • @Greasy William
    Do you believe there is such a thing as "Qi"? Do most Chinese?

    Not particularly, unless it refers to another process (like, a lot of traditional Chinese medicine works, but not with the traditional mechanism).

    I can’t speak for other Chinese. The orbital mothership that substitutes for the Asiatic brain isn’t responding to my pings atm, probably because of all of the space junk being made by Tiangong crashing down.

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    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Daniel Chieh
    It occurs to me that if Mr. Karlin's comments about the universities there is correct, we can handily help him get his much needed credentialism(with apologies to eXile);

    eXile: I am Russian banker, so-called robber baron capitalist, am interested in purchasing your degree.

    Harvard: (pause) Uh, sir, you can’t buy the degree, but you can enroll in our program. It’s an intensive 9 week program, and you receive a certificate, not a degree.

    eXile: No, this is no good. Do you realize who I am? Fred Hiatt wrote about me in today Washington Post, that I am not typical robber baron. I am ze baby billionaire.

    Harvard: We read a lot about Russia and it sounds very exciting.

    eXile: Of course it exciting. Now I vant Harvard degree.

    Harvard: You can’t buy a degree.

    eXile: Maybe instead I build nice cafe for you on campus. Or I can donate small nightclub for Harvard degree.

    Harvard: Sir, Harvard is a 350-year-old institution. It’s not all just about money. We’ve turned down princes.

    eXile: NOT ABOUT MONEY? Hah!
     

    Do you believe there is such a thing as “Qi”? Do most Chinese?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Not particularly, unless it refers to another process (like, a lot of traditional Chinese medicine works, but not with the traditional mechanism).

    I can't speak for other Chinese. The orbital mothership that substitutes for the Asiatic brain isn't responding to my pings atm, probably because of all of the space junk being made by Tiangong crashing down.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Dmitry

    Accurate. But seriously though, Karlin’s comment section is of exceptionally high quality. The other extreme is Russia Insider’s comments, but atleast it’s full of Russophiles. Well, very, very uninformed ones, but still. It’s bad PR for Russia overall, but to be fair so are most other similar sites. Although RT.com is IMO actually quite decent all things considered (but not the comments, of course).
     
    Yes, we are becoming one of the most highly-esteemed communities on the Anglo-net.

    Karlin commentariat benefits from multi-national composition, and we have the fortune to even have 'the rare' (many once believed non-existent) example of a Ukrainian with an IQ above 100, which is to say AP – whose appearance has been likened by many to a 'black swan' or 'square circle'.

    Maybe we should shortly introduce an ‘restrictive immigration system’ so that only the best commentators are allowed to immigrate here from rest of the Unz community.

    It occurs to me that if Mr. Karlin’s comments about the universities there is correct, we can handily help him get his much needed credentialism(with apologies to eXile);

    eXile: I am Russian banker, so-called robber baron capitalist, am interested in purchasing your degree.

    Harvard: (pause) Uh, sir, you can’t buy the degree, but you can enroll in our program. It’s an intensive 9 week program, and you receive a certificate, not a degree.

    eXile: No, this is no good. Do you realize who I am? Fred Hiatt wrote about me in today Washington Post, that I am not typical robber baron. I am ze baby billionaire.

    Harvard: We read a lot about Russia and it sounds very exciting.

    eXile: Of course it exciting. Now I vant Harvard degree.

    Harvard: You can’t buy a degree.

    eXile: Maybe instead I build nice cafe for you on campus. Or I can donate small nightclub for Harvard degree.

    Harvard: Sir, Harvard is a 350-year-old institution. It’s not all just about money. We’ve turned down princes.

    eXile: NOT ABOUT MONEY? Hah!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Greasy William
    Do you believe there is such a thing as "Qi"? Do most Chinese?
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Kimppis
    Thanks.

    However, most people aren’t really interested in truth or learning, and therefore can be best explained or interacted with via their tribal markers instead, including belief systems.
     
    Very true.

    Btw, it seems my posts were only fully deleted for 12 (?) hours, after that they were moved to the "off-topic" section (ie. basically hidden), including the link to Karlin's technology article. And that thread was about Russian technology... Yeah, something's not right. So my original wall-of-text was still overall accurate.

    @ gogis

    HBD is not popular in Russia. I’ve had plenty of heated kitchen debates on ‘races are unequal’.
     
    Yeah, I knew that, but most posters and mods are Westerners, AFAIK. Not that I expect "us" to be any more supportive of those ideas on average, but it was just the huge overreaction that surprised me, especially when the discussion was originally only about Russian technology.

    @Dmitry

    As a famous person once said. To share a precious Karlin blog post with your family/workmates/friends/girlfriend/boyfriend – to throw pearls in front of swine.
     
    Accurate. But seriously though, Karlin's comment section is of exceptionally high quality. The other extreme is Russia Insider's comments, but atleast it's full of Russophiles. Well, very, very uninformed ones, but still. It's bad PR for Russia overall, but to be fair so are most other similar sites. Although RT.com is IMO actually quite decent all things considered (but not the comments, of course).

    This is not even go into fact that website with such name as ‘Russian Military Forum’ can only possibly be run from Andrei Martyanov’s garage.
     
    Haha, that's an accurate description. A mixed back, but some good info there.

    Accurate. But seriously though, Karlin’s comment section is of exceptionally high quality. The other extreme is Russia Insider’s comments, but atleast it’s full of Russophiles. Well, very, very uninformed ones, but still. It’s bad PR for Russia overall, but to be fair so are most other similar sites. Although RT.com is IMO actually quite decent all things considered (but not the comments, of course).

    Yes, we are becoming one of the most highly-esteemed communities on the Anglo-net.

    Karlin commentariat benefits from multi-national composition, and we have the fortune to even have ‘the rare’ (many once believed non-existent) example of a Ukrainian with an IQ above 100, which is to say AP – whose appearance has been likened by many to a ‘black swan’ or ‘square circle’.

    Maybe we should shortly introduce an ‘restrictive immigration system’ so that only the best commentators are allowed to immigrate here from rest of the Unz community.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    It occurs to me that if Mr. Karlin's comments about the universities there is correct, we can handily help him get his much needed credentialism(with apologies to eXile);

    eXile: I am Russian banker, so-called robber baron capitalist, am interested in purchasing your degree.

    Harvard: (pause) Uh, sir, you can’t buy the degree, but you can enroll in our program. It’s an intensive 9 week program, and you receive a certificate, not a degree.

    eXile: No, this is no good. Do you realize who I am? Fred Hiatt wrote about me in today Washington Post, that I am not typical robber baron. I am ze baby billionaire.

    Harvard: We read a lot about Russia and it sounds very exciting.

    eXile: Of course it exciting. Now I vant Harvard degree.

    Harvard: You can’t buy a degree.

    eXile: Maybe instead I build nice cafe for you on campus. Or I can donate small nightclub for Harvard degree.

    Harvard: Sir, Harvard is a 350-year-old institution. It’s not all just about money. We’ve turned down princes.

    eXile: NOT ABOUT MONEY? Hah!
     
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Daniel Chieh
    Welcome to the Mecha-Hitler clique.

    Incidentally, I became less of a "liberal" because I specifically was looking for evidence to support a blank slate position. The more I studied the evidence, the less sensible it was. Far from being guided by "hate", I remain of the opinion that it is most helpful to treat various societal challenges with what we know from reality and then work from that angle.

    However, most people aren't really interested in truth or learning, and therefore can be best explained or interacted with via their tribal markers instead, including belief systems.

    Thanks.

    However, most people aren’t really interested in truth or learning, and therefore can be best explained or interacted with via their tribal markers instead, including belief systems.

    Very true.

    Btw, it seems my posts were only fully deleted for 12 (?) hours, after that they were moved to the “off-topic” section (ie. basically hidden), including the link to Karlin’s technology article. And that thread was about Russian technology… Yeah, something’s not right. So my original wall-of-text was still overall accurate.

    @ gogis

    HBD is not popular in Russia. I’ve had plenty of heated kitchen debates on ‘races are unequal’.

    Yeah, I knew that, but most posters and mods are Westerners, AFAIK. Not that I expect “us” to be any more supportive of those ideas on average, but it was just the huge overreaction that surprised me, especially when the discussion was originally only about Russian technology.

    As a famous person once said. To share a precious Karlin blog post with your family/workmates/friends/girlfriend/boyfriend – to throw pearls in front of swine.

    Accurate. But seriously though, Karlin’s comment section is of exceptionally high quality. The other extreme is Russia Insider’s comments, but atleast it’s full of Russophiles. Well, very, very uninformed ones, but still. It’s bad PR for Russia overall, but to be fair so are most other similar sites. Although RT.com is IMO actually quite decent all things considered (but not the comments, of course).

    This is not even go into fact that website with such name as ‘Russian Military Forum’ can only possibly be run from Andrei Martyanov’s garage.

    Haha, that’s an accurate description. A mixed back, but some good info there.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dmitry

    Accurate. But seriously though, Karlin’s comment section is of exceptionally high quality. The other extreme is Russia Insider’s comments, but atleast it’s full of Russophiles. Well, very, very uninformed ones, but still. It’s bad PR for Russia overall, but to be fair so are most other similar sites. Although RT.com is IMO actually quite decent all things considered (but not the comments, of course).
     
    Yes, we are becoming one of the most highly-esteemed communities on the Anglo-net.

    Karlin commentariat benefits from multi-national composition, and we have the fortune to even have 'the rare' (many once believed non-existent) example of a Ukrainian with an IQ above 100, which is to say AP – whose appearance has been likened by many to a 'black swan' or 'square circle'.

    Maybe we should shortly introduce an ‘restrictive immigration system’ so that only the best commentators are allowed to immigrate here from rest of the Unz community.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Kimppis
    And I still think it's a good... "counter-argument" against American and Western hypocrisy in regards to Russiagate? I mean Americans did openly and proudly meddle in the Russian elections of '96 after all? That now "famous" Time cover and all that.

    ===================================

    Off-topic, but I just got... well, almost banned from the Russian Military Forum (yeah, the English-language one) for posting Karlin's Russian technology article. As expected, it didn't go too well among the fanboys there. Counter-arguments were great... "Karlin is a liberal who doesn't even live in Russia, so he can't possibly know anything about it... Look at his recent post: to him Putin is 'Putler'... He doesn't even have a PhD (!), so his 'science' is worthless..."

    After that they of course got into the "nazi" stuff. So because Karlin believes in "HDB", his views about Russian technology must be totally wrong as well. I guess at first someone got triggered because Karlin mentioned that the average Russian IQ is "only" 97. I tried to explain that 97 is actually high, but to no avail...

    So in the end, I guess they simply couldn't accept that differences in IQ/human capital are largely or even partially hereditary and due to genes, even though I tried to be as PC as possible. Shouldn't that basically be obvious if you seriously think about it even for a minute? (Sounds familiar to people here? But that is how an average person will often react I'd imagine? Wrongthink!) I pointed that it's about averages, it doesn't mean that all Sub-Saharan Africans are dumb at all... Didn't help. And now all the posts even mentioning the word "IQ" have seemingly been permanently deleted, which is extremely rare.

    I guess this is what Western "HBD people" experience regularly? Have people gone totally insane there (here)? Absolutely never ever mention any of that stuff IRL? That one is probably obvious?

    My "story" is that I only really started reading about this topic on Karlin's blog and to say that it has really convinced me would almost be an understatement. The reason why I found the blog in the first place was his Russia-expertise, being a Western... "multipolarist" (Russia and China watcher) and I was fed up with all the propaganda around or even just before the events in Ukraine.

    My political views were actually quite liberal only a few years ago, being a university student and all that. "Most Somalis and other 'third-worlders' are just like us, they're normal people, hard workers. Blank slatism is obviously true, races don't exist, because that's what I've been told my whole life. Only people who think differently are old, uneducated racists. Same-sex marriage is kind of cool!"

    So Anatoly's point that blue checkmarks have much higher IQs on average is obviously very true and that is why I was one of them as well (kind of... I've been a Russophile for a while, and I'm in my 20s.) I'm certainly still not a "homophobe" and I guess I'm not even against same-sex marriage, don't really care, but it has also become clear that the Russian complains about "gay propaganda" have become true to some extent, even in the West.

    [Btw, a case in point, a perfect mix of homomania and Russophobia: I just googled "homophobia" and one of the first results is an image of Putin and an article called "Top 50 Homophobes of the Last 50 Years" or something, you can't make that shit up. I'm actually not convinced that Putin is even a proper homophobe by modern Western standards, to say nothing about what an average Russian, Eastern European or really an average human being out of the global population of over 7 billion in 2018 thinks. Putin is also less of a homophobe than... atleast 90% of the global population during the last 50 years. Western media, for fucks sake!]

    So why this "rant"? Because for the first time in my life, I've been labeled as a "nazi" (indirectly, but still) and that is almost all thanks to Anatoly Karlin lol. Couldn't have imagined this only a few years ago. So despite me being only a poor student, I'm going to make a small donation, which I think is the first time I'm donating anything to anyone, certainly on the internet. Thanks for the blog!

    Off-topic, but I just got… well, almost banned from the Russian Military Forum

    Just seems you need to be a little more careful with your wisdom.

    It’s hardly normal people here – we are Karlin fans, i.e. the small and gifted group, fortunate enough to possess the technical specialization to appreciate, interpret and decode Karlin’s higher knowledge.

    Is it little reason we are so resentfully rejected by the rest of the ‘Unz community’ (transl: cattle) ?

    As a famous person once said. To share a precious Karlin blog post with your family/workmates/friends/girlfriend/boyfriend – to throw pearls in front of swine.

    Even venerable Yan Shen discriminates against us (although in venerable Yan Shen’s case it is presumably for factors discernible only to even higher intelligences than our own – lack of blog posts about Chinese verbal/math split among them).

    This is not even go into fact that website with such name as ‘Russian Military Forum’ can only possibly be run from Andrei Martyanov’s garage.

    Read More
    • LOL: Anatoly Karlin
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Dmitry

    It didn’t advance your career not to go, to say the least. They kept tally of who voted and who didn’t.
     
    If you don't mind to say or reveal personal details, which country is this? (I'm guessing German Democratic Republic?)

    The Hungarian People’s Republic.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @reiner Tor
    The more the results are falsified, the more totalitarian the regime is. The more totalitarian the regime, the more advisable it is to actually turn up at the voting booth. I think my parents told me that in the 1980s turnout really was very high. It didn’t advance your career not to go, to say the least. They kept tally of who voted and who didn’t.

    It didn’t advance your career not to go, to say the least. They kept tally of who voted and who didn’t.

    If you don’t mind to say or reveal personal details, which country is this? (I’m guessing German Democratic Republic?)

    Read More
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    The Hungarian People’s Republic.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Hieronymus of Canada
    I think it more than 'self-entertainment', there's also an element of group solidarity as well.

    And another form of self-entertainment. You go to football match as well, even though your individual cheering is not going to score any goals for your team.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Yevardian
    Chernyshevsky, probably. Nabokov has a hilarious biography of him in Dar' (The Gift).

    Thank you!

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Daniel Chieh
    Who is the Russian version of Rousseau?

    Chernyshevsky, probably. Nabokov has a hilarious biography of him in Dar’ (The Gift).

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Thank you!
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Anonymous
    Just support letting NCFD go. It's better for Russia. It will inspire other countries (China and India) to let go of racially/ethnically troublesome Muslims enclaves located at a frontier border.

    Just support letting NCFD go. It’s better for Russia. It will inspire other countries (China and India) to let go of racially/ethnically troublesome Muslims enclaves located at a frontier border.

    I think we all support that (along with the Chechens), it’s merely a question of getting the timing right.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Just support letting NCFD go. It’s better for Russia. It will inspire other countries (China and India) to let go of racially/ethnically troublesome Muslims enclaves located at a frontier border.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Swedish Family

    Just support letting NCFD go. It’s better for Russia. It will inspire other countries (China and India) to let go of racially/ethnically troublesome Muslims enclaves located at a frontier border.
     
    I think we all support that (along with the Chechens), it's merely a question of getting the timing right.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Some black areas in America actually register 99% in an election. I didn’t believe it at first, but, by now, I do indeed believe it.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @gogis
    > for evidence to support a blank slate position

    Last time I used 'Tabula Rasa' in conversation I've got puzzled look and 'what Path of Exile chestpiece have to do with what we talking about?' I immediately facepalmed

    Who is the Russian version of Rousseau?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Yevardian
    Chernyshevsky, probably. Nabokov has a hilarious biography of him in Dar' (The Gift).
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Daniel Chieh
    Welcome to the Mecha-Hitler clique.

    Incidentally, I became less of a "liberal" because I specifically was looking for evidence to support a blank slate position. The more I studied the evidence, the less sensible it was. Far from being guided by "hate", I remain of the opinion that it is most helpful to treat various societal challenges with what we know from reality and then work from that angle.

    However, most people aren't really interested in truth or learning, and therefore can be best explained or interacted with via their tribal markers instead, including belief systems.

    > for evidence to support a blank slate position

    Last time I used ‘Tabula Rasa’ in conversation I’ve got puzzled look and ‘what Path of Exile chestpiece have to do with what we talking about?’ I immediately facepalmed

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Who is the Russian version of Rousseau?
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Kimppis
    And I still think it's a good... "counter-argument" against American and Western hypocrisy in regards to Russiagate? I mean Americans did openly and proudly meddle in the Russian elections of '96 after all? That now "famous" Time cover and all that.

    ===================================

    Off-topic, but I just got... well, almost banned from the Russian Military Forum (yeah, the English-language one) for posting Karlin's Russian technology article. As expected, it didn't go too well among the fanboys there. Counter-arguments were great... "Karlin is a liberal who doesn't even live in Russia, so he can't possibly know anything about it... Look at his recent post: to him Putin is 'Putler'... He doesn't even have a PhD (!), so his 'science' is worthless..."

    After that they of course got into the "nazi" stuff. So because Karlin believes in "HDB", his views about Russian technology must be totally wrong as well. I guess at first someone got triggered because Karlin mentioned that the average Russian IQ is "only" 97. I tried to explain that 97 is actually high, but to no avail...

    So in the end, I guess they simply couldn't accept that differences in IQ/human capital are largely or even partially hereditary and due to genes, even though I tried to be as PC as possible. Shouldn't that basically be obvious if you seriously think about it even for a minute? (Sounds familiar to people here? But that is how an average person will often react I'd imagine? Wrongthink!) I pointed that it's about averages, it doesn't mean that all Sub-Saharan Africans are dumb at all... Didn't help. And now all the posts even mentioning the word "IQ" have seemingly been permanently deleted, which is extremely rare.

    I guess this is what Western "HBD people" experience regularly? Have people gone totally insane there (here)? Absolutely never ever mention any of that stuff IRL? That one is probably obvious?

    My "story" is that I only really started reading about this topic on Karlin's blog and to say that it has really convinced me would almost be an understatement. The reason why I found the blog in the first place was his Russia-expertise, being a Western... "multipolarist" (Russia and China watcher) and I was fed up with all the propaganda around or even just before the events in Ukraine.

    My political views were actually quite liberal only a few years ago, being a university student and all that. "Most Somalis and other 'third-worlders' are just like us, they're normal people, hard workers. Blank slatism is obviously true, races don't exist, because that's what I've been told my whole life. Only people who think differently are old, uneducated racists. Same-sex marriage is kind of cool!"

    So Anatoly's point that blue checkmarks have much higher IQs on average is obviously very true and that is why I was one of them as well (kind of... I've been a Russophile for a while, and I'm in my 20s.) I'm certainly still not a "homophobe" and I guess I'm not even against same-sex marriage, don't really care, but it has also become clear that the Russian complains about "gay propaganda" have become true to some extent, even in the West.

    [Btw, a case in point, a perfect mix of homomania and Russophobia: I just googled "homophobia" and one of the first results is an image of Putin and an article called "Top 50 Homophobes of the Last 50 Years" or something, you can't make that shit up. I'm actually not convinced that Putin is even a proper homophobe by modern Western standards, to say nothing about what an average Russian, Eastern European or really an average human being out of the global population of over 7 billion in 2018 thinks. Putin is also less of a homophobe than... atleast 90% of the global population during the last 50 years. Western media, for fucks sake!]

    So why this "rant"? Because for the first time in my life, I've been labeled as a "nazi" (indirectly, but still) and that is almost all thanks to Anatoly Karlin lol. Couldn't have imagined this only a few years ago. So despite me being only a poor student, I'm going to make a small donation, which I think is the first time I'm donating anything to anyone, certainly on the internet. Thanks for the blog!

    HBD is not popular in Russia. I’ve had plenty of heated kitchen debates on ‘races are unequal’.

    Let’s say Russia still have strong internationalism-n-equality myths in the heads from rich Soviet past. Give it a time

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • So bear this in mind whenever you hear someone waxing lyrical about the special relationship between Russia and Chechnya. Old grievances don’t heal quickly. The more plausible reality seems to be that while the Chechens are certainly not actively resisting, they are not all that enthusiastic about Russian rule, and no amount of federal transfers equivalent to 80% of the Chechen budget or Putin taking parental responsibility for Kadyrov are making a dent in that.

    There is no way that anybody who has seriously read history of that region, that would conclude that Chechens will be buddy-buddy with Russia always and forever. Not a chance. That region will try to leave once Russia is incapable or unwilling to go postal in keeping it part of Russia. Until then – the relationship will continue forward in a way that is at least minimally beneficial to both sides.

    Peace.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Kimppis
    And I still think it's a good... "counter-argument" against American and Western hypocrisy in regards to Russiagate? I mean Americans did openly and proudly meddle in the Russian elections of '96 after all? That now "famous" Time cover and all that.

    ===================================

    Off-topic, but I just got... well, almost banned from the Russian Military Forum (yeah, the English-language one) for posting Karlin's Russian technology article. As expected, it didn't go too well among the fanboys there. Counter-arguments were great... "Karlin is a liberal who doesn't even live in Russia, so he can't possibly know anything about it... Look at his recent post: to him Putin is 'Putler'... He doesn't even have a PhD (!), so his 'science' is worthless..."

    After that they of course got into the "nazi" stuff. So because Karlin believes in "HDB", his views about Russian technology must be totally wrong as well. I guess at first someone got triggered because Karlin mentioned that the average Russian IQ is "only" 97. I tried to explain that 97 is actually high, but to no avail...

    So in the end, I guess they simply couldn't accept that differences in IQ/human capital are largely or even partially hereditary and due to genes, even though I tried to be as PC as possible. Shouldn't that basically be obvious if you seriously think about it even for a minute? (Sounds familiar to people here? But that is how an average person will often react I'd imagine? Wrongthink!) I pointed that it's about averages, it doesn't mean that all Sub-Saharan Africans are dumb at all... Didn't help. And now all the posts even mentioning the word "IQ" have seemingly been permanently deleted, which is extremely rare.

    I guess this is what Western "HBD people" experience regularly? Have people gone totally insane there (here)? Absolutely never ever mention any of that stuff IRL? That one is probably obvious?

    My "story" is that I only really started reading about this topic on Karlin's blog and to say that it has really convinced me would almost be an understatement. The reason why I found the blog in the first place was his Russia-expertise, being a Western... "multipolarist" (Russia and China watcher) and I was fed up with all the propaganda around or even just before the events in Ukraine.

    My political views were actually quite liberal only a few years ago, being a university student and all that. "Most Somalis and other 'third-worlders' are just like us, they're normal people, hard workers. Blank slatism is obviously true, races don't exist, because that's what I've been told my whole life. Only people who think differently are old, uneducated racists. Same-sex marriage is kind of cool!"

    So Anatoly's point that blue checkmarks have much higher IQs on average is obviously very true and that is why I was one of them as well (kind of... I've been a Russophile for a while, and I'm in my 20s.) I'm certainly still not a "homophobe" and I guess I'm not even against same-sex marriage, don't really care, but it has also become clear that the Russian complains about "gay propaganda" have become true to some extent, even in the West.

    [Btw, a case in point, a perfect mix of homomania and Russophobia: I just googled "homophobia" and one of the first results is an image of Putin and an article called "Top 50 Homophobes of the Last 50 Years" or something, you can't make that shit up. I'm actually not convinced that Putin is even a proper homophobe by modern Western standards, to say nothing about what an average Russian, Eastern European or really an average human being out of the global population of over 7 billion in 2018 thinks. Putin is also less of a homophobe than... atleast 90% of the global population during the last 50 years. Western media, for fucks sake!]

    So why this "rant"? Because for the first time in my life, I've been labeled as a "nazi" (indirectly, but still) and that is almost all thanks to Anatoly Karlin lol. Couldn't have imagined this only a few years ago. So despite me being only a poor student, I'm going to make a small donation, which I think is the first time I'm donating anything to anyone, certainly on the internet. Thanks for the blog!

    Welcome to the Mecha-Hitler clique.

    Incidentally, I became less of a “liberal” because I specifically was looking for evidence to support a blank slate position. The more I studied the evidence, the less sensible it was. Far from being guided by “hate”, I remain of the opinion that it is most helpful to treat various societal challenges with what we know from reality and then work from that angle.

    However, most people aren’t really interested in truth or learning, and therefore can be best explained or interacted with via their tribal markers instead, including belief systems.

    Read More
    • Replies: @gogis
    > for evidence to support a blank slate position

    Last time I used 'Tabula Rasa' in conversation I've got puzzled look and 'what Path of Exile chestpiece have to do with what we talking about?' I immediately facepalmed
    , @Kimppis
    Thanks.

    However, most people aren’t really interested in truth or learning, and therefore can be best explained or interacted with via their tribal markers instead, including belief systems.
     
    Very true.

    Btw, it seems my posts were only fully deleted for 12 (?) hours, after that they were moved to the "off-topic" section (ie. basically hidden), including the link to Karlin's technology article. And that thread was about Russian technology... Yeah, something's not right. So my original wall-of-text was still overall accurate.

    @ gogis

    HBD is not popular in Russia. I’ve had plenty of heated kitchen debates on ‘races are unequal’.
     
    Yeah, I knew that, but most posters and mods are Westerners, AFAIK. Not that I expect "us" to be any more supportive of those ideas on average, but it was just the huge overreaction that surprised me, especially when the discussion was originally only about Russian technology.

    @Dmitry

    As a famous person once said. To share a precious Karlin blog post with your family/workmates/friends/girlfriend/boyfriend – to throw pearls in front of swine.
     
    Accurate. But seriously though, Karlin's comment section is of exceptionally high quality. The other extreme is Russia Insider's comments, but atleast it's full of Russophiles. Well, very, very uninformed ones, but still. It's bad PR for Russia overall, but to be fair so are most other similar sites. Although RT.com is IMO actually quite decent all things considered (but not the comments, of course).

    This is not even go into fact that website with such name as ‘Russian Military Forum’ can only possibly be run from Andrei Martyanov’s garage.
     
    Haha, that's an accurate description. A mixed back, but some good info there.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @reiner Tor
    I didn't remember correctly. Looking at the results, it appears that Yeltsin would've won anyway.

    The only argument we can make is that the media and press were fully under his and his cronies' control.

    And I still think it’s a good… “counter-argument” against American and Western hypocrisy in regards to Russiagate? I mean Americans did openly and proudly meddle in the Russian elections of ’96 after all? That now “famous” Time cover and all that.

    ===================================

    Off-topic, but I just got… well, almost banned from the Russian Military Forum (yeah, the English-language one) for posting Karlin’s Russian technology article. As expected, it didn’t go too well among the fanboys there. Counter-arguments were great… “Karlin is a liberal who doesn’t even live in Russia, so he can’t possibly know anything about it… Look at his recent post: to him Putin is ‘Putler’… He doesn’t even have a PhD (!), so his ‘science’ is worthless…”

    After that they of course got into the “nazi” stuff. So because Karlin believes in “HDB”, his views about Russian technology must be totally wrong as well. I guess at first someone got triggered because Karlin mentioned that the average Russian IQ is “only” 97. I tried to explain that 97 is actually high, but to no avail…

    So in the end, I guess they simply couldn’t accept that differences in IQ/human capital are largely or even partially hereditary and due to genes, even though I tried to be as PC as possible. Shouldn’t that basically be obvious if you seriously think about it even for a minute? (Sounds familiar to people here? But that is how an average person will often react I’d imagine? Wrongthink!) I pointed that it’s about averages, it doesn’t mean that all Sub-Saharan Africans are dumb at all… Didn’t help. And now all the posts even mentioning the word “IQ” have seemingly been permanently deleted, which is extremely rare.

    I guess this is what Western “HBD people” experience regularly? Have people gone totally insane there (here)? Absolutely never ever mention any of that stuff IRL? That one is probably obvious?

    My “story” is that I only really started reading about this topic on Karlin’s blog and to say that it has really convinced me would almost be an understatement. The reason why I found the blog in the first place was his Russia-expertise, being a Western… “multipolarist” (Russia and China watcher) and I was fed up with all the propaganda around or even just before the events in Ukraine.

    My political views were actually quite liberal only a few years ago, being a university student and all that. “Most Somalis and other ‘third-worlders’ are just like us, they’re normal people, hard workers. Blank slatism is obviously true, races don’t exist, because that’s what I’ve been told my whole life. Only people who think differently are old, uneducated racists. Same-sex marriage is kind of cool!”

    So Anatoly’s point that blue checkmarks have much higher IQs on average is obviously very true and that is why I was one of them as well (kind of… I’ve been a Russophile for a while, and I’m in my 20s.) I’m certainly still not a “homophobe” and I guess I’m not even against same-sex marriage, don’t really care, but it has also become clear that the Russian complains about “gay propaganda” have become true to some extent, even in the West.

    [Btw, a case in point, a perfect mix of homomania and Russophobia: I just googled "homophobia" and one of the first results is an image of Putin and an article called "Top 50 Homophobes of the Last 50 Years" or something, you can't make that shit up. I'm actually not convinced that Putin is even a proper homophobe by modern Western standards, to say nothing about what an average Russian, Eastern European or really an average human being out of the global population of over 7 billion in 2018 thinks. Putin is also less of a homophobe than... atleast 90% of the global population during the last 50 years. Western media, for fucks sake!]

    So why this “rant”? Because for the first time in my life, I’ve been labeled as a “nazi” (indirectly, but still) and that is almost all thanks to Anatoly Karlin lol. Couldn’t have imagined this only a few years ago. So despite me being only a poor student, I’m going to make a small donation, which I think is the first time I’m donating anything to anyone, certainly on the internet. Thanks for the blog!

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    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Welcome to the Mecha-Hitler clique.

    Incidentally, I became less of a "liberal" because I specifically was looking for evidence to support a blank slate position. The more I studied the evidence, the less sensible it was. Far from being guided by "hate", I remain of the opinion that it is most helpful to treat various societal challenges with what we know from reality and then work from that angle.

    However, most people aren't really interested in truth or learning, and therefore can be best explained or interacted with via their tribal markers instead, including belief systems.
    , @gogis
    HBD is not popular in Russia. I've had plenty of heated kitchen debates on 'races are unequal'.

    Let's say Russia still have strong internationalism-n-equality myths in the heads from rich Soviet past. Give it a time
    , @Dmitry

    Off-topic, but I just got… well, almost banned from the Russian Military Forum
     
    Just seems you need to be a little more careful with your wisdom.

    It's hardly normal people here - we are Karlin fans, i.e. the small and gifted group, fortunate enough to possess the technical specialization to appreciate, interpret and decode Karlin's higher knowledge.

    Is it little reason we are so resentfully rejected by the rest of the 'Unz community' (transl: cattle) ?

    As a famous person once said. To share a precious Karlin blog post with your family/workmates/friends/girlfriend/boyfriend - to throw pearls in front of swine.

    Even venerable Yan Shen discriminates against us (although in venerable Yan Shen's case it is presumably for factors discernible only to even higher intelligences than our own - lack of blog posts about Chinese verbal/math split among them).

    This is not even go into fact that website with such name as 'Russian Military Forum' can only possibly be run from Andrei Martyanov's garage.
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  • @reiner Tor
    From what I read, I was under the impression that the falsification or the amount of vote stuffing etc. was in the same ballpark as later, but that it was the only election where the end result was affected: Putin probably would have won all of his elections anyway, except maybe in 2000 only in the second round. But Yeltsin clearly would have lost without fraud.

    I didn’t remember correctly. Looking at the results, it appears that Yeltsin would’ve won anyway.

    The only argument we can make is that the media and press were fully under his and his cronies’ control.

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    • Replies: @Kimppis
    And I still think it's a good... "counter-argument" against American and Western hypocrisy in regards to Russiagate? I mean Americans did openly and proudly meddle in the Russian elections of '96 after all? That now "famous" Time cover and all that.

    ===================================

    Off-topic, but I just got... well, almost banned from the Russian Military Forum (yeah, the English-language one) for posting Karlin's Russian technology article. As expected, it didn't go too well among the fanboys there. Counter-arguments were great... "Karlin is a liberal who doesn't even live in Russia, so he can't possibly know anything about it... Look at his recent post: to him Putin is 'Putler'... He doesn't even have a PhD (!), so his 'science' is worthless..."

    After that they of course got into the "nazi" stuff. So because Karlin believes in "HDB", his views about Russian technology must be totally wrong as well. I guess at first someone got triggered because Karlin mentioned that the average Russian IQ is "only" 97. I tried to explain that 97 is actually high, but to no avail...

    So in the end, I guess they simply couldn't accept that differences in IQ/human capital are largely or even partially hereditary and due to genes, even though I tried to be as PC as possible. Shouldn't that basically be obvious if you seriously think about it even for a minute? (Sounds familiar to people here? But that is how an average person will often react I'd imagine? Wrongthink!) I pointed that it's about averages, it doesn't mean that all Sub-Saharan Africans are dumb at all... Didn't help. And now all the posts even mentioning the word "IQ" have seemingly been permanently deleted, which is extremely rare.

    I guess this is what Western "HBD people" experience regularly? Have people gone totally insane there (here)? Absolutely never ever mention any of that stuff IRL? That one is probably obvious?

    My "story" is that I only really started reading about this topic on Karlin's blog and to say that it has really convinced me would almost be an understatement. The reason why I found the blog in the first place was his Russia-expertise, being a Western... "multipolarist" (Russia and China watcher) and I was fed up with all the propaganda around or even just before the events in Ukraine.

    My political views were actually quite liberal only a few years ago, being a university student and all that. "Most Somalis and other 'third-worlders' are just like us, they're normal people, hard workers. Blank slatism is obviously true, races don't exist, because that's what I've been told my whole life. Only people who think differently are old, uneducated racists. Same-sex marriage is kind of cool!"

    So Anatoly's point that blue checkmarks have much higher IQs on average is obviously very true and that is why I was one of them as well (kind of... I've been a Russophile for a while, and I'm in my 20s.) I'm certainly still not a "homophobe" and I guess I'm not even against same-sex marriage, don't really care, but it has also become clear that the Russian complains about "gay propaganda" have become true to some extent, even in the West.

    [Btw, a case in point, a perfect mix of homomania and Russophobia: I just googled "homophobia" and one of the first results is an image of Putin and an article called "Top 50 Homophobes of the Last 50 Years" or something, you can't make that shit up. I'm actually not convinced that Putin is even a proper homophobe by modern Western standards, to say nothing about what an average Russian, Eastern European or really an average human being out of the global population of over 7 billion in 2018 thinks. Putin is also less of a homophobe than... atleast 90% of the global population during the last 50 years. Western media, for fucks sake!]

    So why this "rant"? Because for the first time in my life, I've been labeled as a "nazi" (indirectly, but still) and that is almost all thanks to Anatoly Karlin lol. Couldn't have imagined this only a few years ago. So despite me being only a poor student, I'm going to make a small donation, which I think is the first time I'm donating anything to anyone, certainly on the internet. Thanks for the blog!
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  • @melanf

    I thought there was significant fraud already in 1996.
     
    It was not a "significant fraud ", it was a completely falsified election. There were fraud in the elections of the 2000s, but compared to 1996, it is a model of democracy.

    From what I read, I was under the impression that the falsification or the amount of vote stuffing etc. was in the same ballpark as later, but that it was the only election where the end result was affected: Putin probably would have won all of his elections anyway, except maybe in 2000 only in the second round. But Yeltsin clearly would have lost without fraud.

    Read More
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    I didn't remember correctly. Looking at the results, it appears that Yeltsin would've won anyway.

    The only argument we can make is that the media and press were fully under his and his cronies' control.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @reiner Tor
    I thought there was significant fraud already in 1996.

    I thought there was significant fraud already in 1996.

    It was not a “significant fraud “, it was a completely falsified election. There were fraud in the elections of the 2000s, but compared to 1996, it is a model of democracy.

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    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    From what I read, I was under the impression that the falsification or the amount of vote stuffing etc. was in the same ballpark as later, but that it was the only election where the end result was affected: Putin probably would have won all of his elections anyway, except maybe in 2000 only in the second round. But Yeltsin clearly would have lost without fraud.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • I thought there was significant fraud already in 1996.

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    • Replies: @melanf

    I thought there was significant fraud already in 1996.
     
    It was not a "significant fraud ", it was a completely falsified election. There were fraud in the elections of the 2000s, but compared to 1996, it is a model of democracy.
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  • @A.A.
    So the turnout is at 50% despite the fact that Chechens surely must be aware of the fact that results in Chechnya are being utterly and completely falsified? Don't think I would even bother coming to the polls in their place. At least the people going out to vote in Moscow, even those who are part of the protest electorate, should have the idea that their votes are actually going to count.

    The more the results are falsified, the more totalitarian the regime is. The more totalitarian the regime, the more advisable it is to actually turn up at the voting booth. I think my parents told me that in the 1980s turnout really was very high. It didn’t advance your career not to go, to say the least. They kept tally of who voted and who didn’t.

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    • Replies: @Dmitry

    It didn’t advance your career not to go, to say the least. They kept tally of who voted and who didn’t.
     
    If you don't mind to say or reveal personal details, which country is this? (I'm guessing German Democratic Republic?)
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  • @Dmitry
    Well in any democracy around the world, people vote more for self-entertainment purposes if they are being honest to themselves. Anyone who has learned to count, will be aware chance of your one vote making any difference even in close elections, is infinitesimal. And yet e.g. we see many are voting in non-swing states in America (again, everyone is aware on some level it is for self-entertainment purposes, as the actual individual voting paper could be thrown in the trash can without any difference being made - well, except that it would spoil the entertainment factor of your vote, if you knew that that happened).

    I think it more than ‘self-entertainment’, there’s also an element of group solidarity as well.

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    • Replies: @Dmitry
    And another form of self-entertainment. You go to football match as well, even though your individual cheering is not going to score any goals for your team.
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  • Somebody ought to do something about Chechnya.

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  • @A.A.
    So the turnout is at 50% despite the fact that Chechens surely must be aware of the fact that results in Chechnya are being utterly and completely falsified? Don't think I would even bother coming to the polls in their place. At least the people going out to vote in Moscow, even those who are part of the protest electorate, should have the idea that their votes are actually going to count.

    Well in any democracy around the world, people vote more for self-entertainment purposes if they are being honest to themselves. Anyone who has learned to count, will be aware chance of your one vote making any difference even in close elections, is infinitesimal. And yet e.g. we see many are voting in non-swing states in America (again, everyone is aware on some level it is for self-entertainment purposes, as the actual individual voting paper could be thrown in the trash can without any difference being made – well, except that it would spoil the entertainment factor of your vote, if you knew that that happened).

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    • Replies: @Hieronymus of Canada
    I think it more than 'self-entertainment', there's also an element of group solidarity as well.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • So the turnout is at 50% despite the fact that Chechens surely must be aware of the fact that results in Chechnya are being utterly and completely falsified? Don’t think I would even bother coming to the polls in their place. At least the people going out to vote in Moscow, even those who are part of the protest electorate, should have the idea that their votes are actually going to count.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dmitry
    Well in any democracy around the world, people vote more for self-entertainment purposes if they are being honest to themselves. Anyone who has learned to count, will be aware chance of your one vote making any difference even in close elections, is infinitesimal. And yet e.g. we see many are voting in non-swing states in America (again, everyone is aware on some level it is for self-entertainment purposes, as the actual individual voting paper could be thrown in the trash can without any difference being made - well, except that it would spoil the entertainment factor of your vote, if you knew that that happened).
    , @reiner Tor
    The more the results are falsified, the more totalitarian the regime is. The more totalitarian the regime, the more advisable it is to actually turn up at the voting booth. I think my parents told me that in the 1980s turnout really was very high. It didn’t advance your career not to go, to say the least. They kept tally of who voted and who didn’t.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • So the leader of Russia's Communist Party (KPRF) Zyuganov and Chechen leader Ramzan Kadyrov have gotten into a bit of a spat over whether or not Lenin should be buried. Zyuganov thinks calls to bury Lenin are "idle chatter," and apparently believes that the Great Revolution "ended in a practically bloodless manner." Kadyrov begged to...
  • @Max Payne
    Woah woah woah.....

    Whats wrong with a homocaust?

    Woah woah woah…..

    Whats wrong with a homocaust

    The same thing that was wrong with the Holocaust, the Holodomor, the Armenian genocide, the murder of the untermenschen, etc., etc.,

    or not.

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  • @Max Payne
    Woah woah woah.....

    Whats wrong with a homocaust?

    It creates a lot of liberal whining.

    If you can’t remove them too, why bother?

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  • @melanf
    I am absolutely not a fan of Lenin, but his mummy should be left in place to show tourists (for money). The struggle with the monuments of a century ago (a La the South of the US) is stupid.

    I agree with the tourism and money angle. Think how much Great Britain (a misnomer if there ever was one) makes every year from maintaining the monuments and ceremonials from Victorian England and the British Empire … which by the way includes the current Royal Family. Indeed, Britain does the best job of any country in the world in maintaining museums of its historical artifacts.

    I imagine that someday there will be formal tours in Russia of abandoned factories, cosmodromes, and gulags. It would create more tour stops if there were impressive mausoleums for Lenin, Stalin, etc., because, as a practical matter, tourists have to go somewhere and see something.

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  • Woah woah woah…..

    Whats wrong with a homocaust?

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    • Replies: @Anon
    It creates a lot of liberal whining.

    If you can't remove them too, why bother?
    , @iffen

    Woah woah woah…..

    Whats wrong with a homocaust
     
    The same thing that was wrong with the Holocaust, the Holodomor, the Armenian genocide, the murder of the untermenschen, etc., etc.,

    or not.
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  • @Anatoly Karlin
    Maybe it hasn't been sliced and diced, but it was liquified.

    https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4142/4872271555_5dbebc03ef_b.jpg

    Here is the original article:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/lenins-brain-they-took-it-out-to-understand-the-source-of-a-revolution-they-now-reject-but-they-tend-1501441.html

    For those disturbed by ” Visceral Communism” – like ( half ) german_reader and songbird, it’s best if you don’t read it. But as a tripe eater, it didn’t bother me much.

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  • @Verymuchalive
    Not one of my most productive kites I've ever flown. It looks like it went nowhere. After all, nobody's ever heard of a Lenin Salami on Rye. There are no Lenin Genius Awards either.

    Maybe it hasn’t been sliced and diced, but it was liquified.

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    • Replies: @Verymuchalive
    Here is the original article:
    http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/lenins-brain-they-took-it-out-to-understand-the-source-of-a-revolution-they-now-reject-but-they-tend-1501441.html
    For those disturbed by " Visceral Communism" - like ( half ) german_reader and songbird, it's best if you don't read it. But as a tripe eater, it didn't bother me much.
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  • Bury him deep and elect Sobchak. She is a real enough threat for Gordon to be set up as a vote splitter.

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  • @Verymuchalive
    Of course, not everything was conserved in the first place. I remember reading years ago that they cut salami- like sections of Lenin's brain for study. The aim was to find physical evidence of Lenin's "genius". Other Soviet "geniuses" were also considered for such treatment, apparently.
    I've always wondered what, if anything, resulted from this project.

    Not one of my most productive kites I’ve ever flown. It looks like it went nowhere. After all, nobody’s ever heard of a Lenin Salami on Rye. There are no Lenin Genius Awards either.

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    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    Maybe it hasn't been sliced and diced, but it was liquified.

    https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4142/4872271555_5dbebc03ef_b.jpg
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  • @Anatoly Karlin
    Zero chance of that. There's even major questions about whether the brain's neural networks can be meaningfully preserved in the short period between death and the Alcor cryopreservation process. And this is based on modern technologies with the specific goal of maximizing the chance that the "patient's" cognitive profile is saved.

    It was more intended as a joke, not a serious proposal (and bringing back Lenin…not a good idea). I don’t expect something like this to ever become possible (though if I understand correctly something like this was an idea of that precursor of transhumanism Fyodorov).

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  • @Фрэнк в СПБ
    Again Kadyrov comes off as more of a Russian nationalist than a depraved communist swine-dog, although on second thought that is not surpising.

    Although to be fair, the entire existing communist party of Russia of today would have been repressed as petty bourgeois revisionists and/or chauvinists if they existed during the Soviet Union as they have deviated significantly from the tenets of communism of that time.

    Although to be fair, the entire existing communist party of Russia of today would have been repressed as petty bourgeois revisionists and/or chauvinists if they existed during the Soviet Union

    “Communism” in the USSR changed very much during the USSR existence. “Communists” of the Brezhnev era had little in common with the Communists of the days of Lenin

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  • @Randal
    Surely the obvious solution is a fraternal swap. Send all the confederate general statues and Christian shaped monuments to Russia, and replace them with all the statues of Lenin and other commie memorials, along with Lenin's body. The SJWs would surely love to have a more accessible Lenin corpse to pilgrimage to. Not sure what the Russians would make of a statue of Robert E Lee, mind.

    They would likely ask “who is this?” then study Lee’s biographies. And reach a conclusion that he was a great man. Other questions about the state of things in the USA would follow.

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  • @Фрэнк в СПБ
    Again Kadyrov comes off as more of a Russian nationalist than a depraved communist swine-dog, although on second thought that is not surpising.

    Although to be fair, the entire existing communist party of Russia of today would have been repressed as petty bourgeois revisionists and/or chauvinists if they existed during the Soviet Union as they have deviated significantly from the tenets of communism of that time.

    You are right on both points.

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  • @German_reader
    If transhumanism ever becomes a thing, one could also try to bring him back to life. That would be an even bigger achievement.
    Maybe some of the commies are secretly hoping for such a 2nd coming of Lenin.

    Zero chance of that. There’s even major questions about whether the brain’s neural networks can be meaningfully preserved in the short period between death and the Alcor cryopreservation process. And this is based on modern technologies with the specific goal of maximizing the chance that the “patient’s” cognitive profile is saved.

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    • Replies: @German_reader
    It was more intended as a joke, not a serious proposal (and bringing back Lenin...not a good idea). I don't expect something like this to ever become possible (though if I understand correctly something like this was an idea of that precursor of transhumanism Fyodorov).
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Again Kadyrov comes off as more of a Russian nationalist than a depraved communist swine-dog, although on second thought that is not surpising.

    Although to be fair, the entire existing communist party of Russia of today would have been repressed as petty bourgeois revisionists and/or chauvinists if they existed during the Soviet Union as they have deviated significantly from the tenets of communism of that time.

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    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    You are right on both points.
    , @melanf

    Although to be fair, the entire existing communist party of Russia of today would have been repressed as petty bourgeois revisionists and/or chauvinists if they existed during the Soviet Union
     
    "Communism" in the USSR changed very much during the USSR existence. "Communists" of the Brezhnev era had little in common with the Communists of the days of Lenin
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  • @German_reader
    Hmm, according to that
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/sep/11/preserving-chairman-mao-embalming-a-body-to-maintain-a-legacy (wouldn't normally link to the Guardian...but this seems credible)

    the Chinese didn't get Soviet assistance for embalming Mao's body, due to the Sino-Soviet split, and had to come up with a procedure themselves (with interesting results: "Mao’s former doctor Li Zhisui published a ghoulish account of the process, describing the former ruler’s head swelling up “like a football”).
    I find it fascinating though that parts of Lenin's body have been replaced with plastics or whatever they use...if this process continues, the body might eventually be mostly artificial. Pretty grotesque.

    I find it fascinating though that parts of Lenin’s body have been replaced with plastics or whatever they use…if this process continues, the body might eventually be mostly artificial.

    Lenin is the personified Avantgard, the future of mankind, ethnically mixed and increasingly artificial.

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  • @neutral

    what are the arguments for preserving Lenin’s body?
     
    I have not made it a secret that I am anti jewish and thus I am anti Lenin and Trotsky, but in this case there is the argument of trying to see how long one keep preserving the body for the sake of human curiosity. Imagine he is still preserved like that in a 100 or 500, it would be a remarkable achievement being preserved that long, and it would not make it morbid anymore, no more that hardly anyone cares if they display ancient preserved (relatively preserved) Egyptian mummies.

    If transhumanism ever becomes a thing, one could also try to bring him back to life. That would be an even bigger achievement.
    Maybe some of the commies are secretly hoping for such a 2nd coming of Lenin.

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    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    Zero chance of that. There's even major questions about whether the brain's neural networks can be meaningfully preserved in the short period between death and the Alcor cryopreservation process. And this is based on modern technologies with the specific goal of maximizing the chance that the "patient's" cognitive profile is saved.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @German_reader
    I see your point, though I actually think public exhibitions of ancient mummies are also somewhat disrespectful. But at least in that case it's about ancient cultural practices and real historical interest...what are the arguments for preserving Lenin's body? At best it's a freakish curiosity piece, at worst a manifestation of commie personality cult.

    what are the arguments for preserving Lenin’s body?

    I have not made it a secret that I am anti jewish and thus I am anti Lenin and Trotsky, but in this case there is the argument of trying to see how long one keep preserving the body for the sake of human curiosity. Imagine he is still preserved like that in a 100 or 500, it would be a remarkable achievement being preserved that long, and it would not make it morbid anymore, no more that hardly anyone cares if they display ancient preserved (relatively preserved) Egyptian mummies.

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    • Replies: @German_reader
    If transhumanism ever becomes a thing, one could also try to bring him back to life. That would be an even bigger achievement.
    Maybe some of the commies are secretly hoping for such a 2nd coming of Lenin.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @melanf

    It’s still a corpse after all, and those shouldn’t be publicly exhibited.
     
    A (for example) Egyptian mummy in the Hermitage?

    I see your point, though I actually think public exhibitions of ancient mummies are also somewhat disrespectful. But at least in that case it’s about ancient cultural practices and real historical interest…what are the arguments for preserving Lenin’s body? At best it’s a freakish curiosity piece, at worst a manifestation of commie personality cult.

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    • Replies: @neutral

    what are the arguments for preserving Lenin’s body?
     
    I have not made it a secret that I am anti jewish and thus I am anti Lenin and Trotsky, but in this case there is the argument of trying to see how long one keep preserving the body for the sake of human curiosity. Imagine he is still preserved like that in a 100 or 500, it would be a remarkable achievement being preserved that long, and it would not make it morbid anymore, no more that hardly anyone cares if they display ancient preserved (relatively preserved) Egyptian mummies.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @German_reader
    Wikipedia claims it's free:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenin%27s_Mausoleum

    The Mausoleum is open Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Saturday and Sunday from 10:00 to 13:00, except holidays per the Moscow Marriott Grand concierge as of August 11, 2015. Visitors still wait in lines to see Lenin's body although they are not as long as they once were. Entrance is free of charge.
     
    I guess there would be a certain irony in using Lenin's corpse for generating revenue...but quite apart from considerations of what the man stood for, it just feels bizarre and wrong imo. It's still a corpse after all, and those shouldn't be publicly exhibited.

    It’s still a corpse after all, and those shouldn’t be publicly exhibited.

    A (for example) Egyptian mummy in the Hermitage?

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    • Replies: @German_reader
    I see your point, though I actually think public exhibitions of ancient mummies are also somewhat disrespectful. But at least in that case it's about ancient cultural practices and real historical interest...what are the arguments for preserving Lenin's body? At best it's a freakish curiosity piece, at worst a manifestation of commie personality cult.
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  • @reiner Tor
    I think with Lenin there's the little issue that his body is still there, and that he didn't wish for his body to be embalmed, instead I think he explicitly wished to be buried somewhere (maybe close to his family or somewhere similar), and his widow was also opposed to this and would've supported a proper burial instead.

    So a case could be made that whatever you think of him, the proper course of action is to remove him. If you respect him, then you should bury him out of respect for his and his widow's will. Or if you don't, then of course you don't want that bizarre monument.

    I think with Lenin there’s the little issue that his body is still there, and that he didn’t wish for his body to be embalmed

    If there’s a documented proof that he did, it’s certainly a valid argument.

    Otherwise, displaying embalmed corpses in mausoleums doesn’t seem particularly eccentric. It happened to Lincoln, iirc.

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  • @melanf

    But isn’t entrance at the mausoleum free? Would changing that be accepted?
    Also pretty morbid as a tourist attraction.
     
    I don't know free or not. But now Capitalism in Russia, Lenin has to earn money himself, instead of sitting on the neck of the oppressed classes

    Wikipedia claims it’s free:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenin%27s_Mausoleum

    The Mausoleum is open Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Saturday and Sunday from 10:00 to 13:00, except holidays per the Moscow Marriott Grand concierge as of August 11, 2015. Visitors still wait in lines to see Lenin’s body although they are not as long as they once were. Entrance is free of charge.

    I guess there would be a certain irony in using Lenin’s corpse for generating revenue…but quite apart from considerations of what the man stood for, it just feels bizarre and wrong imo. It’s still a corpse after all, and those shouldn’t be publicly exhibited.

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    • Replies: @melanf

    It’s still a corpse after all, and those shouldn’t be publicly exhibited.
     
    A (for example) Egyptian mummy in the Hermitage?
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  • @German_reader

    I am absolutely not a fan of Lenin, but his mummy should be left in place to show tourists (for money).
     
    But isn't entrance at the mausoleum free? Would changing that be accepted?
    Also pretty morbid as a tourist attraction.

    It is a unique tourist attraction; I’ve seen it.

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  • @German_reader

    I am absolutely not a fan of Lenin, but his mummy should be left in place to show tourists (for money).
     
    But isn't entrance at the mausoleum free? Would changing that be accepted?
    Also pretty morbid as a tourist attraction.

    But isn’t entrance at the mausoleum free? Would changing that be accepted?
    Also pretty morbid as a tourist attraction.

    I don’t know free or not. But now Capitalism in Russia, Lenin has to earn money himself, instead of sitting on the neck of the oppressed classes

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    • Replies: @German_reader
    Wikipedia claims it's free:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenin%27s_Mausoleum

    The Mausoleum is open Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Saturday and Sunday from 10:00 to 13:00, except holidays per the Moscow Marriott Grand concierge as of August 11, 2015. Visitors still wait in lines to see Lenin's body although they are not as long as they once were. Entrance is free of charge.
     
    I guess there would be a certain irony in using Lenin's corpse for generating revenue...but quite apart from considerations of what the man stood for, it just feels bizarre and wrong imo. It's still a corpse after all, and those shouldn't be publicly exhibited.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @reiner Tor
    I think with Lenin there's the little issue that his body is still there, and that he didn't wish for his body to be embalmed, instead I think he explicitly wished to be buried somewhere (maybe close to his family or somewhere similar), and his widow was also opposed to this and would've supported a proper burial instead.

    So a case could be made that whatever you think of him, the proper course of action is to remove him. If you respect him, then you should bury him out of respect for his and his widow's will. Or if you don't, then of course you don't want that bizarre monument.

    There is a story that Lenin’s widow wanted him buried until Stalin eventually told her that they could find another widow; she then shut up about it.

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  • @reiner Tor

    (for money)
     
    I think the income is minuscule, close to nothing, especially compared to the symbolic importance of having this person's body preserved right next door to the Kremlin.

    compared to the symbolic importance of having this person’s body preserved right next door to the Kremlin

    The mummy of Lenin which show for the money - will have even more of symbolic importance

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  • @melanf
    I am absolutely not a fan of Lenin, but his mummy should be left in place to show tourists (for money). The struggle with the monuments of a century ago (a La the South of the US) is stupid.

    I am absolutely not a fan of Lenin, but his mummy should be left in place to show tourists (for money).

    But isn’t entrance at the mausoleum free? Would changing that be accepted?
    Also pretty morbid as a tourist attraction.

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    • Replies: @melanf

    But isn’t entrance at the mausoleum free? Would changing that be accepted?
    Also pretty morbid as a tourist attraction.
     
    I don't know free or not. But now Capitalism in Russia, Lenin has to earn money himself, instead of sitting on the neck of the oppressed classes
    , @AP
    It is a unique tourist attraction; I've seen it.
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  • @melanf
    I am absolutely not a fan of Lenin, but his mummy should be left in place to show tourists (for money). The struggle with the monuments of a century ago (a La the South of the US) is stupid.

    (for money)

    I think the income is minuscule, close to nothing, especially compared to the symbolic importance of having this person’s body preserved right next door to the Kremlin.

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    • Replies: @melanf

    compared to the symbolic importance of having this person’s body preserved right next door to the Kremlin
     
    The mummy of Lenin which show for the money - will have even more of symbolic importance
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  • @Mao Cheng Ji

    It’s a corpse, not a monument.
     
    Well, first of all, it is definitely a monument, it's a mausoleum.

    Second, there is no problem with any proposal to relocate or even to dismantle this (any other) monument; the problem is the justification offered; in this case (to quote from the post) that he "cited statistics in support of it."

    For any historical figure (Columbus, Washington, Lincoln, FDR) there's always a group of people who despise the person and the ideology he represents. Unless there's a wide consensus within society (certainly not the case with Lenin), paying attention to their demands just ignites culture wars and weaken society. They need to be told to shut up, and engage in some useful activity.

    I think with Lenin there’s the little issue that his body is still there, and that he didn’t wish for his body to be embalmed, instead I think he explicitly wished to be buried somewhere (maybe close to his family or somewhere similar), and his widow was also opposed to this and would’ve supported a proper burial instead.

    So a case could be made that whatever you think of him, the proper course of action is to remove him. If you respect him, then you should bury him out of respect for his and his widow’s will. Or if you don’t, then of course you don’t want that bizarre monument.

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    • Replies: @AP
    There is a story that Lenin's widow wanted him buried until Stalin eventually told her that they could find another widow; she then shut up about it.
    , @Mao Cheng Ji

    I think with Lenin there’s the little issue that his body is still there, and that he didn’t wish for his body to be embalmed
     
    If there's a documented proof that he did, it's certainly a valid argument.

    Otherwise, displaying embalmed corpses in mausoleums doesn't seem particularly eccentric. It happened to Lincoln, iirc.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • I am absolutely not a fan of Lenin, but his mummy should be left in place to show tourists (for money). The struggle with the monuments of a century ago (a La the South of the US) is stupid.

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    • Replies: @reiner Tor

    (for money)
     
    I think the income is minuscule, close to nothing, especially compared to the symbolic importance of having this person's body preserved right next door to the Kremlin.
    , @German_reader

    I am absolutely not a fan of Lenin, but his mummy should be left in place to show tourists (for money).
     
    But isn't entrance at the mausoleum free? Would changing that be accepted?
    Also pretty morbid as a tourist attraction.
    , @TheJester
    I agree with the tourism and money angle. Think how much Great Britain (a misnomer if there ever was one) makes every year from maintaining the monuments and ceremonials from Victorian England and the British Empire ... which by the way includes the current Royal Family. Indeed, Britain does the best job of any country in the world in maintaining museums of its historical artifacts.

    I imagine that someday there will be formal tours in Russia of abandoned factories, cosmodromes, and gulags. It would create more tour stops if there were impressive mausoleums for Lenin, Stalin, etc., because, as a practical matter, tourists have to go somewhere and see something.
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  • @The Big Red Scary
    Have you ever read the Brothers Karamazov (“Stink of putrefaction”) or been to the Pecherskaya Lavra in Kiev? The commies desperately needed to have a saint. Nietzsche said the building of a new altar requires the tearing down of the old. But the converse is true as well.

    I have never read it, nor been to Kiev.

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  • @telegram>Anatoly, do you have a content presence on telegram? If not, do you plan to? I don’t use twitter and at this point, I think it’s too late for me to get on board. If I decide, I may just use the Twittergram bot. I just ‘subscribed’ to kadyrov and Расовая антропология. Do you have any good follow suggestions?

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  • @ussr andy
    America doesn't seem to have the number of statues (of people) like Europe. The national symbol is a Gypshun obelisk. seems like a legacy of Age of Enlightenment sensibilities cum prot aniconism.

    I think it started out differently, but, to take a more recent example, I think it is pretty bizarre that there is a large Ted Kennedy museum (some would say mausoleum, even though he is not buried in it) in Boston, which was constructed in part with millions of tax dollars. Plus there is the naming of a lot of public infrastructure after more modern politicians.

    Of course, the greatest communist example,which puts all these things in the shade, would probably be the Envar Hoxha pyramid.

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    • Agree: ussr andy
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  • @Jaakko Raipala
    It's not even remotely comparable assuming that they actually want to give him a proper burial with a marked grave somewhere in a normal graveyard. It's a corpse, not a monument.

    Me, personally I think communists belong in an unmarked mass graves, but there's value of in having Lenin there in a grotesque monument that he rather likely would have disapproved to remind us all about how the atheist who wanted to force "progress" by destroying "oppressive" structures of his civilization in the end only ended up creating another religion and taking his country 3000 years backwards into a pharaonic cult.

    It's all a great reminder that leftists have been wrong about the innate nature of man for hundreds of years. The natural state of man is superstitious, irrational and authoritarian and statecrafting in the absence of a more complicated framework built over the centuries defaults to a primitive God-king cult.

    It’s a corpse, not a monument.

    Well, first of all, it is definitely a monument, it’s a mausoleum.

    Second, there is no problem with any proposal to relocate or even to dismantle this (any other) monument; the problem is the justification offered; in this case (to quote from the post) that he “cited statistics in support of it.”

    For any historical figure (Columbus, Washington, Lincoln, FDR) there’s always a group of people who despise the person and the ideology he represents. Unless there’s a wide consensus within society (certainly not the case with Lenin), paying attention to their demands just ignites culture wars and weaken society. They need to be told to shut up, and engage in some useful activity.

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    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    I think with Lenin there's the little issue that his body is still there, and that he didn't wish for his body to be embalmed, instead I think he explicitly wished to be buried somewhere (maybe close to his family or somewhere similar), and his widow was also opposed to this and would've supported a proper burial instead.

    So a case could be made that whatever you think of him, the proper course of action is to remove him. If you respect him, then you should bury him out of respect for his and his widow's will. Or if you don't, then of course you don't want that bizarre monument.

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Of course, not everything was conserved in the first place. I remember reading years ago that they cut salami- like sections of Lenin’s brain for study. The aim was to find physical evidence of Lenin’s “genius”. Other Soviet “geniuses” were also considered for such treatment, apparently.
    I’ve always wondered what, if anything, resulted from this project.

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    • Replies: @Verymuchalive
    Not one of my most productive kites I've ever flown. It looks like it went nowhere. After all, nobody's ever heard of a Lenin Salami on Rye. There are no Lenin Genius Awards either.
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  • Surely the obvious solution is a fraternal swap. Send all the confederate general statues and Christian shaped monuments to Russia, and replace them with all the statues of Lenin and other commie memorials, along with Lenin’s body. The SJWs would surely love to have a more accessible Lenin corpse to pilgrimage to. Not sure what the Russians would make of a statue of Robert E Lee, mind.

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    • Replies: @Sarah Toga
    They would likely ask "who is this?" then study Lee's biographies. And reach a conclusion that he was a great man. Other questions about the state of things in the USA would follow.
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  • @neutral
    Is Kadyrov wanting to get rid of Lenin equivalent to tearing down confederate statues in the USA?

    If he wanted to fell all the Lenin statues like a svidomite, it would be.

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  • @5371
    I always liked that one. Some of my other favourites: Rudolf Hess fake, Perkin Warbeck really royal.

    would that they had PCR machines, lol

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  • [calling for a Homocaust (and implementing one, if rumors are to be believed]

    You say that like it’s a bad thing.

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    • Agree: Randal
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  • @ussr andy
    speaking of copies...
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_decoy#Boris_Yeltsin.2Funknown_.281996.E2.80.932000.29

    I always liked that one. Some of my other favourites: Rudolf Hess fake, Perkin Warbeck really royal.

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    • Replies: @ussr andy
    would that they had PCR machines, lol
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  • @songbird
    I must have misremembered. Li Zhusui, of course, wrote the book.

    But, I agree, it is so amazingly bizarre and grotesque. Though there may be many other tangential examples, like the embalming of some saints, or even the erection of buildings dedicated to statesmen in the US, it nevertheless seems to reveal something especially visceral and disgusting about communism.

    America doesn’t seem to have the number of statues (of people) like Europe. The national symbol is a Gypshun obelisk. seems like a legacy of Age of Enlightenment sensibilities cum prot aniconism.

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    • Replies: @songbird
    I think it started out differently, but, to take a more recent example, I think it is pretty bizarre that there is a large Ted Kennedy museum (some would say mausoleum, even though he is not buried in it) in Boston, which was constructed in part with millions of tax dollars. Plus there is the naming of a lot of public infrastructure after more modern politicians.

    Of course, the greatest communist example,which puts all these things in the shade, would probably be the Envar Hoxha pyramid.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Anatoly Karlin
    No, I don't think that's an apt comparison.

    Most Russians want to bury him (it was actually something of a political priority for Yeltsinite liberals during the late 1990s, to score points against the KPRF, but it fell out of the limelight once Putin came to power and the KPRF became irrelevant). My preference would be to deconstruct and reassemble the tomb in some non-central part of Moscow. The Communists can continue maintaining the body (if they want to pay for it).

    Yes, let’s replace statues of Lenin with those of Sri PERUNA Ji :)

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  • We need good hard evidence before we can celebrate the Homocaust.

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  • @songbird
    I must have misremembered. Li Zhusui, of course, wrote the book.

    But, I agree, it is so amazingly bizarre and grotesque. Though there may be many other tangential examples, like the embalming of some saints, or even the erection of buildings dedicated to statesmen in the US, it nevertheless seems to reveal something especially visceral and disgusting about communism.

    Have you ever read the Brothers Karamazov (“Stink of putrefaction”) or been to the Pecherskaya Lavra in Kiev? The commies desperately needed to have a saint. Nietzsche said the building of a new altar requires the tearing down of the old. But the converse is true as well.

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    • Replies: @songbird
    I have never read it, nor been to Kiev.
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  • @Mao Cheng Ji

    Is Kadyrov wanting to get rid of Lenin equivalent to tearing down confederate statues in the USA?
     
    Yes, it sounds like exactly the same thing to me. As the classic said: those who control the present control the past and those who control the past control the future.

    It’s not even remotely comparable assuming that they actually want to give him a proper burial with a marked grave somewhere in a normal graveyard. It’s a corpse, not a monument.

    Me, personally I think communists belong in an unmarked mass graves, but there’s value of in having Lenin there in a grotesque monument that he rather likely would have disapproved to remind us all about how the atheist who wanted to force “progress” by destroying “oppressive” structures of his civilization in the end only ended up creating another religion and taking his country 3000 years backwards into a pharaonic cult.

    It’s all a great reminder that leftists have been wrong about the innate nature of man for hundreds of years. The natural state of man is superstitious, irrational and authoritarian and statecrafting in the absence of a more complicated framework built over the centuries defaults to a primitive God-king cult.

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    • Agree: AP
    • Replies: @Mao Cheng Ji

    It’s a corpse, not a monument.
     
    Well, first of all, it is definitely a monument, it's a mausoleum.

    Second, there is no problem with any proposal to relocate or even to dismantle this (any other) monument; the problem is the justification offered; in this case (to quote from the post) that he "cited statistics in support of it."

    For any historical figure (Columbus, Washington, Lincoln, FDR) there's always a group of people who despise the person and the ideology he represents. Unless there's a wide consensus within society (certainly not the case with Lenin), paying attention to their demands just ignites culture wars and weaken society. They need to be told to shut up, and engage in some useful activity.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Ramzan Kadyrov’s statement in regards to gays is ironically super-homo: “We will put the whole world on its knees and screw it from behind.”

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  • @neutral
    Is Kadyrov wanting to get rid of Lenin equivalent to tearing down confederate statues in the USA?

    Is Kadyrov wanting to get rid of Lenin equivalent to tearing down confederate statues in the USA?

    Yes, it sounds like exactly the same thing to me. As the classic said: those who control the present control the past and those who control the past control the future.

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    • Replies: @Jaakko Raipala
    It's not even remotely comparable assuming that they actually want to give him a proper burial with a marked grave somewhere in a normal graveyard. It's a corpse, not a monument.

    Me, personally I think communists belong in an unmarked mass graves, but there's value of in having Lenin there in a grotesque monument that he rather likely would have disapproved to remind us all about how the atheist who wanted to force "progress" by destroying "oppressive" structures of his civilization in the end only ended up creating another religion and taking his country 3000 years backwards into a pharaonic cult.

    It's all a great reminder that leftists have been wrong about the innate nature of man for hundreds of years. The natural state of man is superstitious, irrational and authoritarian and statecrafting in the absence of a more complicated framework built over the centuries defaults to a primitive God-king cult.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @ussr andy
    speaking of copies...
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_decoy#Boris_Yeltsin.2Funknown_.281996.E2.80.932000.29
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  • @ussr andy
    sounds like a bit of Cold War or liberal-dissident propaganda, like lost cosmonauts, kindergarteners dying of rat poison etc. (not that the mistrust of the government wasn't unwarranted, everything in the USSR being hush-hush.)
    Lenin a wax copy and the original just dumped somewhere? Man, they're good.
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    • Replies: @ussr andy
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_Dmitry_I
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_Dmitry_II
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_Dmitry_III

    Russia, you weird.
    , @5371
    I always liked that one. Some of my other favourites: Rudolf Hess fake, Perkin Warbeck really royal.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Anon
    When I was in Moscow earlier this year this girl I was seeing was quite insistent that it's a wax dummy and the real Lenin was quietly buried somewhere behind the MKAD in the early 60s.

    sounds like a bit of Cold War or liberal-dissident propaganda, like lost cosmonauts, kindergarteners dying of rat poison etc. (not that the mistrust of the government wasn’t unwarranted, everything in the USSR being hush-hush.)
    Lenin a wax copy and the original just dumped somewhere? Man, they’re good.

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    • Replies: @ussr andy
    speaking of copies...
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_decoy#Boris_Yeltsin.2Funknown_.281996.E2.80.932000.29
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @German_reader
    Hmm, according to that
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/sep/11/preserving-chairman-mao-embalming-a-body-to-maintain-a-legacy (wouldn't normally link to the Guardian...but this seems credible)

    the Chinese didn't get Soviet assistance for embalming Mao's body, due to the Sino-Soviet split, and had to come up with a procedure themselves (with interesting results: "Mao’s former doctor Li Zhisui published a ghoulish account of the process, describing the former ruler’s head swelling up “like a football”).
    I find it fascinating though that parts of Lenin's body have been replaced with plastics or whatever they use...if this process continues, the body might eventually be mostly artificial. Pretty grotesque.

    I must have misremembered. Li Zhusui, of course, wrote the book.

    But, I agree, it is so amazingly bizarre and grotesque. Though there may be many other tangential examples, like the embalming of some saints, or even the erection of buildings dedicated to statesmen in the US, it nevertheless seems to reveal something especially visceral and disgusting about communism.

    Read More
    • Replies: @The Big Red Scary
    Have you ever read the Brothers Karamazov (“Stink of putrefaction”) or been to the Pecherskaya Lavra in Kiev? The commies desperately needed to have a saint. Nietzsche said the building of a new altar requires the tearing down of the old. But the converse is true as well.
    , @ussr andy
    America doesn't seem to have the number of statues (of people) like Europe. The national symbol is a Gypshun obelisk. seems like a legacy of Age of Enlightenment sensibilities cum prot aniconism.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Anatoly Karlin
    No, I don't think that's an apt comparison.

    Most Russians want to bury him (it was actually something of a political priority for Yeltsinite liberals during the late 1990s, to score points against the KPRF, but it fell out of the limelight once Putin came to power and the KPRF became irrelevant). My preference would be to deconstruct and reassemble the tomb in some non-central part of Moscow. The Communists can continue maintaining the body (if they want to pay for it).

    When I was in Moscow earlier this year this girl I was seeing was quite insistent that it’s a wax dummy and the real Lenin was quietly buried somewhere behind the MKAD in the early 60s.

    Read More
    • Replies: @ussr andy
    sounds like a bit of Cold War or liberal-dissident propaganda, like lost cosmonauts, kindergarteners dying of rat poison etc. (not that the mistrust of the government wasn't unwarranted, everything in the USSR being hush-hush.)
    Lenin a wax copy and the original just dumped somewhere? Man, they're good.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @songbird
    When Mao died, the CCP sent a team of doctors to Moscow to find out about Lenin's corpse. If I recall correctly, they were told that his nose and ears had rotted off and been replaced with wax. That was from the book "The Private Life of Chairman Mao."

    Hmm, according to that
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/sep/11/preserving-chairman-mao-embalming-a-body-to-maintain-a-legacy (wouldn’t normally link to the Guardian…but this seems credible)

    the Chinese didn’t get Soviet assistance for embalming Mao’s body, due to the Sino-Soviet split, and had to come up with a procedure themselves (with interesting results: “Mao’s former doctor Li Zhisui published a ghoulish account of the process, describing the former ruler’s head swelling up “like a football”).
    I find it fascinating though that parts of Lenin’s body have been replaced with plastics or whatever they use…if this process continues, the body might eventually be mostly artificial. Pretty grotesque.

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    • Replies: @songbird
    I must have misremembered. Li Zhusui, of course, wrote the book.

    But, I agree, it is so amazingly bizarre and grotesque. Though there may be many other tangential examples, like the embalming of some saints, or even the erection of buildings dedicated to statesmen in the US, it nevertheless seems to reveal something especially visceral and disgusting about communism.
    , @Anon

    I find it fascinating though that parts of Lenin’s body have been replaced with plastics or whatever they use…if this process continues, the body might eventually be mostly artificial.
     
    Lenin is the personified Avantgard, the future of mankind, ethnically mixed and increasingly artificial.
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  • It is amazing how naive HG Wells was when he believed, among other lies, that Lenin had not intended that the Czar and his family be killed.

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  • @German_reader
    Interesting about the technical aspects:
    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/lenin-s-body-improves-with-age1/

    The Russian methods focus on preserving the body's physical form—its look, shape, weight, color, limb flexibility and suppleness—but not necessarily its original biological matter. In the process they have created a "quasibiological" science that differs from other embalming methods. "They have to substitute occasional parts of skin and flesh with plastics and other materials, so in terms of the original biological matter the body is less and less of what it used to be," says Alexei Yurchak, professor of social anthropology at the University of California, Berkeley. "That makes it dramatically different from everything in the past, such as mummification, where the focus was on preserving the original matter while the form of the body changes," he adds.
     
    Apparently the bodies of Ho Chi Minh, Kim Il-sung and Kim Jong-Il have been embalmed with similar methods.

    When Mao died, the CCP sent a team of doctors to Moscow to find out about Lenin’s corpse. If I recall correctly, they were told that his nose and ears had rotted off and been replaced with wax. That was from the book “The Private Life of Chairman Mao.”

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    • Replies: @German_reader
    Hmm, according to that
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/sep/11/preserving-chairman-mao-embalming-a-body-to-maintain-a-legacy (wouldn't normally link to the Guardian...but this seems credible)

    the Chinese didn't get Soviet assistance for embalming Mao's body, due to the Sino-Soviet split, and had to come up with a procedure themselves (with interesting results: "Mao’s former doctor Li Zhisui published a ghoulish account of the process, describing the former ruler’s head swelling up “like a football”).
    I find it fascinating though that parts of Lenin's body have been replaced with plastics or whatever they use...if this process continues, the body might eventually be mostly artificial. Pretty grotesque.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @neutral
    Is Kadyrov wanting to get rid of Lenin equivalent to tearing down confederate statues in the USA?

    No, I don’t think that’s an apt comparison.

    Most Russians want to bury him (it was actually something of a political priority for Yeltsinite liberals during the late 1990s, to score points against the KPRF, but it fell out of the limelight once Putin came to power and the KPRF became irrelevant). My preference would be to deconstruct and reassemble the tomb in some non-central part of Moscow. The Communists can continue maintaining the body (if they want to pay for it).

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    • Replies: @Anon
    When I was in Moscow earlier this year this girl I was seeing was quite insistent that it's a wax dummy and the real Lenin was quietly buried somewhere behind the MKAD in the early 60s.
    , @Singh
    Yes, let's replace statues of Lenin with those of Sri PERUNA Ji :)
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  • Is Kadyrov wanting to get rid of Lenin equivalent to tearing down confederate statues in the USA?

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    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    No, I don't think that's an apt comparison.

    Most Russians want to bury him (it was actually something of a political priority for Yeltsinite liberals during the late 1990s, to score points against the KPRF, but it fell out of the limelight once Putin came to power and the KPRF became irrelevant). My preference would be to deconstruct and reassemble the tomb in some non-central part of Moscow. The Communists can continue maintaining the body (if they want to pay for it).
    , @Mao Cheng Ji

    Is Kadyrov wanting to get rid of Lenin equivalent to tearing down confederate statues in the USA?
     
    Yes, it sounds like exactly the same thing to me. As the classic said: those who control the present control the past and those who control the past control the future.
    , @5371
    If he wanted to fell all the Lenin statues like a svidomite, it would be.
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  • Interesting about the technical aspects:

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/lenin-s-body-improves-with-age1/

    The Russian methods focus on preserving the body’s physical form—its look, shape, weight, color, limb flexibility and suppleness—but not necessarily its original biological matter. In the process they have created a “quasibiological” science that differs from other embalming methods. “They have to substitute occasional parts of skin and flesh with plastics and other materials, so in terms of the original biological matter the body is less and less of what it used to be,” says Alexei Yurchak, professor of social anthropology at the University of California, Berkeley. “That makes it dramatically different from everything in the past, such as mummification, where the focus was on preserving the original matter while the form of the body changes,” he adds.

    Apparently the bodies of Ho Chi Minh, Kim Il-sung and Kim Jong-Il have been embalmed with similar methods.

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    • Replies: @songbird
    When Mao died, the CCP sent a team of doctors to Moscow to find out about Lenin's corpse. If I recall correctly, they were told that his nose and ears had rotted off and been replaced with wax. That was from the book "The Private Life of Chairman Mao."
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  • While I was writing an article about Russian IQ for Sputnik and Pogrom the past few days, I noticed this amazing statistic from the 2010 Census. Percentage of the population with a postgrad degree: 1. Ingushetia: 1.59% 2. Moscow: 1.12% ... 90. Chechnya: 0.32% Ingushetia is Chechnya's quieter, lower T, slyer brother. They are part...
  • @ussr andy
    OT do the mall thing, pl0x

    nicht, dann nicht.

    but just so people know what I’m talking about:

    https://vz.ru/society/2017/9/21/887997.html

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  • What’s with glamorizing ‘scientists’? Talk about cargo cults… I’d take one good cook or car mechanic over a dozen scientists.

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  • OT do the mall thing, pl0x

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    • Replies: @ussr andy
    nicht, dann nicht.

    but just so people know what I'm talking about:
    https://vz.ru/society/2017/9/21/887997.html
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  • I did hear of a proper Russian mathematician doing a “tour of duty” on a several weeks on, several times as many off basis in Chechnya, which topped up his, otherwise insulting, salary to western levels. I guess if the leader is buying gold-plated Bentleys then what’s 30k a year to bribe a proper academic to set foot in the place a few times a year.

    Only thing I know about the Ingush is that they have an Armenian/Azeri level intensity of hatred with the Ossetians, who do seem to have produced some genuinely great figures. The Beslan atrocity was more to do with that than pure Islamic terror. They even had a mini Karabach-like conflict several years before with a similar result. I think that actual Chechens consider this to be a bigger embarrassment than losing their war.

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  • @Jaakko Raipala
    Perhaps the people with degrees are Russians. If so then it would be basically the entire Russian population in the place but maybe that's not so far fetched given that Russians who didn't have some specific reason to stay likely left so all the ones still there are in oil industry, government, airports etc in tasks that require someone with education (so likely not a native).

    It is a “fine” Caucasus tradition to buy degrees and diplomas. Existed even in Soviet times. There were, actually, cases of medical degrees being bought with some rather unpleasant consequences for patients.

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  • I heard that there is a billion dollar industry of fake diplomas in Pakistan. Those Ingush diplomas can be part of the same effort to raise the level of academic accomplishments among Islamic nations – leaving everybody none the wiser – literally and figuratively speaking.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/18/world/asia/fake-diplomas-real-cash-pakistani-company-axact-reaps-millions-columbiana-barkley.html

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  • Perhaps the people with degrees are Russians. If so then it would be basically the entire Russian population in the place but maybe that’s not so far fetched given that Russians who didn’t have some specific reason to stay likely left so all the ones still there are in oil industry, government, airports etc in tasks that require someone with education (so likely not a native).

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    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov
    It is a "fine" Caucasus tradition to buy degrees and diplomas. Existed even in Soviet times. There were, actually, cases of medical degrees being bought with some rather unpleasant consequences for patients.
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  • So, any idea what these degrees are all about? The degrees are all about Koran Studies or what?

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  • “90 scientists for every Ingush”? I’m guessing you mean “for every 100,000 Ingush”, Anatoliy.

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  • Anti-Myanmar protest in a nominally Russian region. Source: Елена Афонина / ТАСС / Scanpix / LETA Photogenic female face of resistance to the junta and Nobel Peace Prize winner comes to power as de facto leader of Myanmar. Some of Aung San Suu Kyi's comments about a certain Muslim minority in her country up to...
  • @Anon
    Thanks. I don't want to engage in historical one-upmanship or civilizational bingo (not, of course, that I'm saying you are) but I should point out that St. Thomas's doctrine on war essentially follows that of St. Augustine, with some elaboration and discussion.

    Properly in Christianity the sphere of questions such as "What should I do in situation XYZ, and what degree of sin will I have committed if I do ABC instead?" fall under the sphere of moral theology, which terminology might be helpful on similar subjects.

    I have no idea how he is received in the Eastern Churches
     
    Fairly well though I don't think they're great fans of Contra Errores Graecorum.

    trying to assess some of the details
     
    I wouldn't trust me as the best source in the world, except for very general impressions of how an average Christian looks at things. Your diocesan bishop or his office* --they don't call them "palaces" here, being democratic I guess-- would probably be helpful in directing you to people who can authoritatively answer questions about the Faith, as would probably Protestant ministers with their interpretations.

    Also the Catholic Encyclopedia is very helpful, not to mention the Catechism of the Catholic Church, obviously mostly for Catholic topics though I think the Greeks are very close theologically (they're not heretics).

    I don’t know if it’s you on the other thread
     
    Yes, it was.

    I’ll lift a page from your playbook and walk away.
     
    It's not necessarily a playbook, though in that case I didn't think more than a curt answer was necessary. I really spend more time on here than I would like, and I still don't have as much time as I would need to answer even the really interesting questions. A long answer like the thousand-word one above can easily take the better part of an hour, not counting the research for the Glancy thing which took considerably longer. I am in awe of your capability to respond on here despite your responsibilities-- I could never keep up.


    *Cardinal Cupich, the Archbishop of Chicago, is quite well respected.

    I don’t want to engage in historical one-upmanship or civilizational bingo

    I’ve always had a respect for Christian civilization – Muslims like myself see them as a branch of the family – perhaps an older heretical brother or something. ;)

    I have deep respect for contemporary Christian thinkers that have traditional views. Feser is a good one. I even respect James White who debates Muslims all the time – because he is honest in his approach (even if he gets things wrong – but he tries in a sincere way). I have heard men like Robert George speak on forums with Muslim scholars and men like him see a place for cooperation between the communities to push back the nihilist darkness that is threatening to cover the world.

    http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2009/07/452/

    When the scholar-philosopher Shaykh Said Nursi (ra) addressed the West in a critique, he made distinctions:
    “[Europe] has conveyed [to mankind] crafts which can be beneficial to man’s social life, and sciences that can serve justice and truth, which poured forth from [the elements of] true Christianity; it is not this Europe that I am addressing, but rather the second, corrupted Europe that has come to imagine, due to the darknesses of natural philosophy, civilizational evils to be virtues, and as a result of this has driven humanity to shamelessness and misguidance.”

    For someone like me – all positive things that have come out of European civilization can be traced back to the blessed feet of the Son of Mary (pbuh) and the actualization of his teachings. Any faults and sins are truly only their own and he is blameless in the matter. Thus, I don’t have the cognitive dissonance that some Muslims do when they see some of the successes of Christian peoples – these are the fruits of adhering properly to the teachings of God’s emissaries.

    Also the Catholic Encyclopedia is very helpful, not to mention the Catechism of the Catholic Church

    I have referenced the Encyclopedia before a few times, never the Catechism – I’ll check it out.

    Yes, it was.

    I expect hubris from materialists. But to see such race-based thinking from so many believing Christians is disconcerting. Have they forgotten the teachings about humility? I see so many Christians here talking about how indispensable European races are ad nauseum and I’m thinking; didn’t they learn the best way to make sure God makes an example out of you of exactly how dispensable you are is to keep talking proudly about how you are indispensable? Maybe it is just an extreme reaction to extremes from the Left.

    I really spend more time on here than I would like

    Tell me about it. I’ve lost quite many hours of sleep. But there is benefit in it to a degree. I asked one of my teachers about it and he said what I was doing seemed to be beneficial and it seems some people on these forums have benefited. I try to stay away from conversations that devolve into ad hominem. Also, I just leave Mr. Sailer’s thread alone – I imagine what I feel is akin to walking in on a frat boy circle jerk – just turn around, close the door and walk away.

    One other positive aspect is that I discuss some of these issues with my teenage daughter since she will be faced with a lot of these questions and arguments when she goes out into the world. There are only a few that deserve serious merit, the rest of them are so ignorant and inane that we have a laugh about them – I sometimes wonder if I’m conversing with teenagers or adults.

    I am in awe of your capability to respond on here despite your responsibilities

    My Qur’an memorization and daily meditation routine has definitely taken a hit. But…

    https://xkcd.com/386/

    But in all seriousness, I should ease back – there are more important matters to attend to.

    Peace.

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  • Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Talha

    Obligations of rulers to conduct themselves properly (this includes the work of St. Thomas on when and how war can be waged) have always been recognized
     
    I definitely do not disagree here - I think the appearance of Aquinas is a watershed moment for Christian thought and codification (at least in the West - I have no idea how he is received in the Eastern Churches). I think it can safely be said though, the formulation of Islamic laws on these matters was more sophisticated and codified in detail at a far earlier stage of development (debates on use of fire, cutting off water supplies, killing animals, etc.). For instance, when we are talking men like Imam Malik (ra) and his contemporaries, we are talking about within the first 150 years. This can be said was by nature and by necessity since the conduct and policies of the first four Caliphs (ra) is a source of law and they were well out of Arabian proper at the time and dealing with other empires/nations by then. They had dealt with everything from conquering lands, developing peace treaties and even how to deal with other Muslims in a civil war.

    https://www.britannica.com/topic/fetial

    This seems to be very interesting. It certainly points out that Romans took treaties seriously and tried to address aggression by other states by diplomacy and (in theory) this was supposed to keep Romans from waging aggressive war (though I'm not sure how successful that was given their history).

    Peace.

    Thanks. I don’t want to engage in historical one-upmanship or civilizational bingo (not, of course, that I’m saying you are) but I should point out that St. Thomas’s doctrine on war essentially follows that of St. Augustine, with some elaboration and discussion.

    Properly in Christianity the sphere of questions such as “What should I do in situation XYZ, and what degree of sin will I have committed if I do ABC instead?” fall under the sphere of moral theology, which terminology might be helpful on similar subjects.

    I have no idea how he is received in the Eastern Churches

    Fairly well though I don’t think they’re great fans of Contra Errores Graecorum.

    trying to assess some of the details

    I wouldn’t trust me as the best source in the world, except for very general impressions of how an average Christian looks at things. Your diocesan bishop or his office* –they don’t call them “palaces” here, being democratic I guess– would probably be helpful in directing you to people who can authoritatively answer questions about the Faith, as would probably Protestant ministers with their interpretations.

    Also the Catholic Encyclopedia is very helpful, not to mention the Catechism of the Catholic Church, obviously mostly for Catholic topics though I think the Greeks are very close theologically (they’re not heretics).

    I don’t know if it’s you on the other thread

    Yes, it was.

    I’ll lift a page from your playbook and walk away.

    It’s not necessarily a playbook, though in that case I didn’t think more than a curt answer was necessary. I really spend more time on here than I would like, and I still don’t have as much time as I would need to answer even the really interesting questions. A long answer like the thousand-word one above can easily take the better part of an hour, not counting the research for the Glancy thing which took considerably longer. I am in awe of your capability to respond on here despite your responsibilities– I could never keep up.

    *Cardinal Cupich, the Archbishop of Chicago, is quite well respected.

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    • Replies: @Talha

    I don’t want to engage in historical one-upmanship or civilizational bingo
     
    I've always had a respect for Christian civilization - Muslims like myself see them as a branch of the family - perhaps an older heretical brother or something. ;)

    I have deep respect for contemporary Christian thinkers that have traditional views. Feser is a good one. I even respect James White who debates Muslims all the time - because he is honest in his approach (even if he gets things wrong - but he tries in a sincere way). I have heard men like Robert George speak on forums with Muslim scholars and men like him see a place for cooperation between the communities to push back the nihilist darkness that is threatening to cover the world.
    http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2009/07/452/

    When the scholar-philosopher Shaykh Said Nursi (ra) addressed the West in a critique, he made distinctions:
    "[Europe] has conveyed [to mankind] crafts which can be beneficial to man’s social life, and sciences that can serve justice and truth, which poured forth from [the elements of] true Christianity; it is not this Europe that I am addressing, but rather the second, corrupted Europe that has come to imagine, due to the darknesses of natural philosophy, civilizational evils to be virtues, and as a result of this has driven humanity to shamelessness and misguidance."

    For someone like me - all positive things that have come out of European civilization can be traced back to the blessed feet of the Son of Mary (pbuh) and the actualization of his teachings. Any faults and sins are truly only their own and he is blameless in the matter. Thus, I don't have the cognitive dissonance that some Muslims do when they see some of the successes of Christian peoples - these are the fruits of adhering properly to the teachings of God's emissaries.

    Also the Catholic Encyclopedia is very helpful, not to mention the Catechism of the Catholic Church
     
    I have referenced the Encyclopedia before a few times, never the Catechism - I'll check it out.

    Yes, it was.
     
    I expect hubris from materialists. But to see such race-based thinking from so many believing Christians is disconcerting. Have they forgotten the teachings about humility? I see so many Christians here talking about how indispensable European races are ad nauseum and I'm thinking; didn't they learn the best way to make sure God makes an example out of you of exactly how dispensable you are is to keep talking proudly about how you are indispensable? Maybe it is just an extreme reaction to extremes from the Left.

    I really spend more time on here than I would like
     
    Tell me about it. I've lost quite many hours of sleep. But there is benefit in it to a degree. I asked one of my teachers about it and he said what I was doing seemed to be beneficial and it seems some people on these forums have benefited. I try to stay away from conversations that devolve into ad hominem. Also, I just leave Mr. Sailer's thread alone - I imagine what I feel is akin to walking in on a frat boy circle jerk - just turn around, close the door and walk away.

    One other positive aspect is that I discuss some of these issues with my teenage daughter since she will be faced with a lot of these questions and arguments when she goes out into the world. There are only a few that deserve serious merit, the rest of them are so ignorant and inane that we have a laugh about them - I sometimes wonder if I'm conversing with teenagers or adults.

    I am in awe of your capability to respond on here despite your responsibilities
     
    My Qur'an memorization and daily meditation routine has definitely taken a hit. But...
    https://xkcd.com/386/

    But in all seriousness, I should ease back - there are more important matters to attend to.

    Peace.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • The other day the Chechen social media page vk.com/karfagen was banned. This is not surprising, considering that it was genuinely extremist from head to toe, though it is perhaps telling of the Russian state's priorities that it took longer for Roskomnadzor to catch onto them than it did for it to illegally block the moderate...
  • Russia must convert heretics like the Chechens or expel them from Russia.

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  • Anti-Myanmar protest in a nominally Russian region. Source: Елена Афонина / ТАСС / Scanpix / LETA Photogenic female face of resistance to the junta and Nobel Peace Prize winner comes to power as de facto leader of Myanmar. Some of Aung San Suu Kyi's comments about a certain Muslim minority in her country up to...
  • Islam is a Christian heresy. The Russian Orthodox Church must stamp out this heresy.

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  • The other day the Chechen social media page vk.com/karfagen was banned. This is not surprising, considering that it was genuinely extremist from head to toe, though it is perhaps telling of the Russian state's priorities that it took longer for Roskomnadzor to catch onto them than it did for it to illegally block the moderate...
  • Chechens are Muslims. Islam is a Christian heresy.

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