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 All Comments / On "Checheniest Chechen of Them All"
    The other day the Chechen social media page vk.com/karfagen was banned. This is not surprising, considering that it was genuinely extremist from head to toe, though it is perhaps telling of the Russian state's priorities that it took longer for Roskomnadzor to catch onto them than it did for it to illegally block the moderate...
  • Russia must convert heretics like the Chechens or expel them from Russia.

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  • Chechens are Muslims. Islam is a Christian heresy.

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  • @Daniil Adamov
    ...but why Carthage?

    Rome Vs. Carthage. The Punic Wars.

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  • @danvolodar
    So wait just a moment, Chechens want to stone Chechen girls in Chechnya for being immodest or whatever other bullshit they can imagine. Why should that concern us Russians? What's the problem with that?

    Why should that concern us Russians? What’s the problem with that?

    Probably not a problem at all unless you like to go to the theater and enjoy a play every now and then.

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  • @danvolodar
    So wait just a moment, Chechens want to stone Chechen girls in Chechnya for being immodest or whatever other bullshit they can imagine. Why should that concern us Russians? What's the problem with that?

    none if that is all it is

    if it’s the first sign of jihadism taking root (inspired by Saudi funded Wahabbi mosques and preachers) then it means endless jihad incoming

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  • So wait just a moment, Chechens want to stone Chechen girls in Chechnya for being immodest or whatever other bullshit they can imagine. Why should that concern us Russians? What’s the problem with that?

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    • Replies: @notanon
    none if that is all it is

    if it's the first sign of jihadism taking root (inspired by Saudi funded Wahabbi mosques and preachers) then it means endless jihad incoming
    , @iffen
    Why should that concern us Russians? What’s the problem with that?

    Probably not a problem at all unless you like to go to the theater and enjoy a play every now and then.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • All Interent sites everywhere seem to have about a 10-1 overinflation of user, member, etc. count. That’s excepting such obvious affected-by-spam sites that have higher numbers, and extremely small communities (100 persons or less). Being even a somewhat larger site and not having this property is often a very strong signal of quality and strong community management (I suspect that is not true for this particular case here)

    It’s an interesting sort of law, because there is no clear general reason for it. Maybe the behavior of people is consistent enough across cultures and times that not just the proportion of humans who would be active users on a site but things like creating sockpuppets results in the same ratios about everywhere. Conversely the number of legitimate humans who add to the count by signing up one time but then disappearing or being permanently inactive might be somehow stable.

    It could also be top-down, which could easily be explained by a few marketing and business programs promoting the same drivel, at the largest organizations first, in that 10-1 just sounds like a good limit to safely inflate to without suspicion. That doesn’t cut across cultures fully though. Plausibly, this could also just happen to be around what human curation against a much vaster and unseen to end users sea of bot traffic and spam is able to cut numbers to, going the other way. These factors would just happen to line up.

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  • @Talha
    Hey Hector,

    superficial / nominal FGM... ‘little nick’ form of ‘technical’ FGM
     
    I'm fine using that term if people are consistent with it. For instance, nothing happened to my daughter, but all three of my boys had their genitals mutilated by licensed pediatricians in the US. One was a Filipino male and the other two were White females. Neither of them balked at the request and had quite a bit of mutilation experience under their belts.

    Furthermore, it seems many females in the West are lining up to pay good money to have their genitals mutilated by licensed surgeons:
    “The World Health Organisation (WHO) defines FGM as 'all procedures that involve partial or total removal of the external female genitalia, or other injury to the female genital organs for non-medical reasons.' The label ‘FGM’ applies to a variety of procedures, which are more numerous and varied than most people might imagine…'I find it very difficult to see the difference between Female Genital Mutilation and Female Genital Cosmetic Surgery. Is there a difference?', she asked. She went on to note that in 30 per cent of cases, patients undergoing Female Genital Cosmetic surgery will suffer painful complications, many of which are similar to those suffered by victims of FGM. In order to get around the 'non-medical' clause in the WHO definition of FGM, cosmetic surgeons justify FGCS on the basis that the young women seeking the surgery will suffer psychological distress due to a perception of abnormality. However, the majority of young women seeking this surgery have perfectly normal, healthy labias.
    https://www.varsity.co.uk/comment/7694

    Now this doctor says that paying him to mutilate your genitals in a similar procedure to what the Shafi'is describe (reduction of clitoral hood [prepuce]) actually increases stimulation:
    "Will this reduce clitoral sensation?

    Absolutely not. In fact, clitoral hood reduction actually increases stimulation due to reducing the barrier of tissue that can decrease sensation. The clitoris and the nerves surrounding it are not touched during the procedure."
    https://www.davidghozland.com/cosmetic-procedures/clitoral-hood-reduction/

    Peace.

    But I will certainly agree that some of the stuff that transpires in the more uneducated, rural or tribal areas of places like Somalia, Upper Egypt, etc. can quite accurately be described as mutilation and should be stopped by being called out by the ulema as well as interdiction by civil authorities.

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  • @Hector_St_Clare
    Talha,

    Malaysia and Kerala, among other places, are also Shafi (according to wiki, at least). I've seen a bunch of accounts by Malaysian women online that suggest that a kind of superficial / nominal FGM is common there, which technically complies with the Shafi jurisprudence but doesn't affect health or sexual function. A friend of mine lived in Indonesia (also Shafi) and he says the 'little nick' form of 'technical' FGM is common there also.

    In other Shafi countries like Yemen and Somalia, I guess one sees FGM in all its full and horrible glory.

    Hey Hector,

    superficial / nominal FGM… ‘little nick’ form of ‘technical’ FGM

    I’m fine using that term if people are consistent with it. For instance, nothing happened to my daughter, but all three of my boys had their genitals mutilated by licensed pediatricians in the US. One was a Filipino male and the other two were White females. Neither of them balked at the request and had quite a bit of mutilation experience under their belts.

    Furthermore, it seems many females in the West are lining up to pay good money to have their genitals mutilated by licensed surgeons:
    “The World Health Organisation (WHO) defines FGM as ‘all procedures that involve partial or total removal of the external female genitalia, or other injury to the female genital organs for non-medical reasons.’ The label ‘FGM’ applies to a variety of procedures, which are more numerous and varied than most people might imagine…’I find it very difficult to see the difference between Female Genital Mutilation and Female Genital Cosmetic Surgery. Is there a difference?‘, she asked. She went on to note that in 30 per cent of cases, patients undergoing Female Genital Cosmetic surgery will suffer painful complications, many of which are similar to those suffered by victims of FGM. In order to get around the ‘non-medical’ clause in the WHO definition of FGM, cosmetic surgeons justify FGCS on the basis that the young women seeking the surgery will suffer psychological distress due to a perception of abnormality. However, the majority of young women seeking this surgery have perfectly normal, healthy labias.

    https://www.varsity.co.uk/comment/7694

    Now this doctor says that paying him to mutilate your genitals in a similar procedure to what the Shafi’is describe (reduction of clitoral hood [prepuce]) actually increases stimulation:
    “Will this reduce clitoral sensation?

    Absolutely not. In fact, clitoral hood reduction actually increases stimulation due to reducing the barrier of tissue that can decrease sensation. The clitoris and the nerves surrounding it are not touched during the procedure.”

    https://www.davidghozland.com/cosmetic-procedures/clitoral-hood-reduction/

    Peace.

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    • Replies: @Talha
    But I will certainly agree that some of the stuff that transpires in the more uneducated, rural or tribal areas of places like Somalia, Upper Egypt, etc. can quite accurately be described as mutilation and should be stopped by being called out by the ulema as well as interdiction by civil authorities.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Silva
    Does anyone know whether the Ingush still feel any "Vainakh solidarity" towards Chechens, or whether the latter want anything besides to dominate the former?

    Talha: the West-European country split in 2 is Belgium (Dutch and French halves).

    Hey Silva,

    Thanks for the correction. Honestly, I’m always mixing up those two countries. Glad I didn’t say something silly about the Netherlands exploiting the Congo or something.

    Peace.

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  • Does anyone know whether the Ingush still feel any “Vainakh solidarity” towards Chechens, or whether the latter want anything besides to dominate the former?

    Talha: the West-European country split in 2 is Belgium (Dutch and French halves).

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    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey Silva,

    Thanks for the correction. Honestly, I'm always mixing up those two countries. Glad I didn't say something silly about the Netherlands exploiting the Congo or something.

    Peace.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Daniil Adamov
    It is fairly prosperous and peaceful of course. This does not in any way contradict the widely observed trend of progressive Islamisation, or Shariafication, or whatever you call it in Chechnya. From year to year it becomes more and more of an Islamist reservation - which is not to say that it has or is about to turn into Saudi Arabia. It's still nasty enough on its own, with its heightened tolerance for Islamic vigilantism and aggressive contempt for human rights for the wrong sorts of humans. Doubtless this affects different groups and places within Chechnya to a different degree, same as in any other place on Earth.

    This does not in any way contradict the widely observed trend of progressive Islamisation, or Shariafication, or whatever you call it in Chechnya. From year to year it becomes more and more of an Islamist reservation – which is not to say that it has or is about to turn into Saudi Arabia.

    That is Chechnya is more Islamist today than in 2000? What is the evidence of this statement?

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  • @Talha
    Hey g2k,

    A note; the Shafi'i school condones no such thing as FGM. You can see the details of what the actual fatwa is on here:
    "He [Ramli*] says that it is the removal of some skin from the clitoral prepuce. This is also mentioned by Ibn Hajar in Tuhfah 9/198. In these passages, the word "bazr" is mentioned. Sahib al-Misbah al-Munir mentions that the"bazr" in circumcision is the prepuce. Thus, what is intended is a part of the prepuce surrounding the clitoris and not the clitoris itself."
    http://shafiifiqh.com/question-details.aspx?qstID=173

    It is fairly clear that the procedure is akin to male circumcision (unless people want to also call that MGM). Now if people aren't following the fatwa or making up their own procedures, then that is a medical or a social problem that local governments need to address.

    a Karachi imam started condoning it. Those guys are Hanifi
     
    As the above resource points out, nobody is going to condemn the procedure. It is acceptable by all schools; the only difference is whether it is considered; a) obligatory, b) recommended or c) merely permissible. Having lived in Pakistan before and around devout Muslims from South Asia (mostly Hanafi) much of my life, I have not heard of a single family considering this procedure for their daughters.

    NGOs are doing themselves no service by claiming all procedures are equivalent. If they insist on taking this route, it will be completely disregarded by Muslims just like White people should disregard stupid claims of "racism" of anything on a spectrum that SJWs don't like.
    “There are many forms of circumcision, broadly grouped as excision and infibulation, distinguished by whether labial edges are fused after the genitalia are incised (Figure 1 and Figure 2). Excision entails cutting or removing part or all of the clitoris with or without the labia minora and majora. Some women have only the clitoral prepuce removed. Infibulation (radical circumcision) is excision accompanied by suturing closed the introitus leaving a small opening for passage of urine and menstrual blood. Local customs dictate the timing and form of circumcision chosen….Infibulation is mainly practiced in the horn of Africa; over 80% of circumcised women in Sudan and Somalia are infibulated. The prevalence of mild forms, such as removal or cutting of the clitoral prepuce (analogous to male circumcision) is unknown, although it has been described in the literature.”
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1497147/

    The problem will be that this will not help in curbing the real forms of mutilation that go on. It should simply be insisted that the populations that follow this school reign in excessive or ignorant practices and bring it in line with the procedure "analogous to male circumcision" that the school has been stating for centuries.

    Peace.

    *Note: Imam Khair ud-Din Ramli (ra) was one of those unique souls that had mastered both schools (Hanafi and Shafi'i) and was/is considered an authority in both.

    Talha,

    Malaysia and Kerala, among other places, are also Shafi (according to wiki, at least). I’ve seen a bunch of accounts by Malaysian women online that suggest that a kind of superficial / nominal FGM is common there, which technically complies with the Shafi jurisprudence but doesn’t affect health or sexual function. A friend of mine lived in Indonesia (also Shafi) and he says the ‘little nick’ form of ‘technical’ FGM is common there also.

    In other Shafi countries like Yemen and Somalia, I guess one sees FGM in all its full and horrible glory.

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    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey Hector,

    superficial / nominal FGM... ‘little nick’ form of ‘technical’ FGM
     
    I'm fine using that term if people are consistent with it. For instance, nothing happened to my daughter, but all three of my boys had their genitals mutilated by licensed pediatricians in the US. One was a Filipino male and the other two were White females. Neither of them balked at the request and had quite a bit of mutilation experience under their belts.

    Furthermore, it seems many females in the West are lining up to pay good money to have their genitals mutilated by licensed surgeons:
    “The World Health Organisation (WHO) defines FGM as 'all procedures that involve partial or total removal of the external female genitalia, or other injury to the female genital organs for non-medical reasons.' The label ‘FGM’ applies to a variety of procedures, which are more numerous and varied than most people might imagine…'I find it very difficult to see the difference between Female Genital Mutilation and Female Genital Cosmetic Surgery. Is there a difference?', she asked. She went on to note that in 30 per cent of cases, patients undergoing Female Genital Cosmetic surgery will suffer painful complications, many of which are similar to those suffered by victims of FGM. In order to get around the 'non-medical' clause in the WHO definition of FGM, cosmetic surgeons justify FGCS on the basis that the young women seeking the surgery will suffer psychological distress due to a perception of abnormality. However, the majority of young women seeking this surgery have perfectly normal, healthy labias.
    https://www.varsity.co.uk/comment/7694

    Now this doctor says that paying him to mutilate your genitals in a similar procedure to what the Shafi'is describe (reduction of clitoral hood [prepuce]) actually increases stimulation:
    "Will this reduce clitoral sensation?

    Absolutely not. In fact, clitoral hood reduction actually increases stimulation due to reducing the barrier of tissue that can decrease sensation. The clitoris and the nerves surrounding it are not touched during the procedure."
    https://www.davidghozland.com/cosmetic-procedures/clitoral-hood-reduction/

    Peace.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Talha
    Hey g2k,

    The problem, is that Shafis (Chechens, Ingush and most Dag’s) generally do.
     
    And will continue to do so.

    but the communities that practice this, and the, almost always Shafi
     
    Yup.

    I think I wasn't making my point clear. My point is not that through some magical formula, Muslims adhering to the Shafi'i school for centuries are going to stop female circumcision. They are not, nor are they likely going to listen to it when people call it FGM. My point is that by lumping in a relatively mild practice like female circumcision with all the other egregious nonsense that goes on like complete removal of clitoris or sealing shut the vaginal canal, etc. - one does not do anything helpful to remedy the situation and in fact makes it worse.

    If you want the nonsense to stop, then demand that they start acting like Muslims and actually follow the rules they are supposed to instead of making up stupid rules on their own.

    religious leaders that promote it are very clear about the method and purpose of this
     
    They are, I just quoted you their verdict based upon the words of strong Shafi'i school authorities like Imam Ibn Hajar Haytami (ra) - feel free to point them out as incorrect (here is his 9 volume commentary on Imam Nawawi's original work "Minhaj at-Talibin"):
    https://archive.org/details/TuhfatalMuhtajSharhalMinhaj

    Are you saying you've seen fatwas that FGM (as opposed female circumcision), like some of the bizarre practices (infibulation, etc.) that are culturally prevalent, is actually sanctioned by the Shariah? I'd love to see the sources. If anything, I have seen fatwas against FGM:
    "Initiated by TARGET, a German human rights organisation, and held under the auspices of the Grand Mufti of Egypt, Professor Ali Gom’a, Muslim scholars from all over the world came together to discuss the practice of FGM with scientists. They passed the resolution, with all the weight of a fatwa, that FGM was to be considered a punishable offence, as an act of aggression, and a crime against humanity. In other parts of Africa, too, religious leaders have spoken out publicly against FGM and are continuing to do so."
    https://www.giz.de/fachexpertise/downloads/giz2011-en-fgm-islam.pdf

    Its hardly sjwism to object to it going on in your country in a region subsidised by your taxes
     
    That's not the problem I had - the problem is when people just lump stuff all together as if there are no gradations. Like calling Charles Murray a Nazi or something silly like that. When people do that, those on the receiving end of the criticism are likely going to ignore you and anything you have to say.

    Karachai
     
    Ah OK - I assumed the other due to the original spelling you typed.

    peace.

    • LOL: Talha

    Be careful, Nordic princesses can be suspicious at times and “accidently” take a look at their mate’s communications.

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    • LOL: Talha
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  • Women were forbidden from commenting.

    Please let me be reincarnated as a Chechen.

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    • LOL: Talha
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  • @Talha
    Yeah perhaps you are right there. I have to admit - Carthage was pulverized completely.

    Stalin of course carted off the Chechens to Siberia, but they were able to come back - stronger than before actually, since all the weaker ones died off.

    Peace.

    Carthage was destroyed (and then rebuilt), but Carthaginians weren’t. Punic language endured in North Africa for quite a while afterwards. I suppose no one thought to salt the land around Grozny, though.

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  • @melanf

    Date: 2013. Things are worse since then.
     
    Grozny 2017 (from https://www.tourister.ru/responses/id_19313 )

    https://imgur.com/a/fdtWU

    From a relatively prosperous and peaceful life "things are worse since then"?
    Maybe, but it seems weird to me

    It is fairly prosperous and peaceful of course. This does not in any way contradict the widely observed trend of progressive Islamisation, or Shariafication, or whatever you call it in Chechnya. From year to year it becomes more and more of an Islamist reservation – which is not to say that it has or is about to turn into Saudi Arabia. It’s still nasty enough on its own, with its heightened tolerance for Islamic vigilantism and aggressive contempt for human rights for the wrong sorts of humans. Doubtless this affects different groups and places within Chechnya to a different degree, same as in any other place on Earth.

    Read More
    • Replies: @melanf

    This does not in any way contradict the widely observed trend of progressive Islamisation, or Shariafication, or whatever you call it in Chechnya. From year to year it becomes more and more of an Islamist reservation – which is not to say that it has or is about to turn into Saudi Arabia.
     
    That is Chechnya is more Islamist today than in 2000? What is the evidence of this statement?
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @g2k
    M

    Having lived in Pakistan before and around devout Muslims from South Asia (mostly Hanafi) much of my life, I have not heard of a single family considering this procedure for their daughters.
     
    I'm well aware that hanifis and shias generally don't do this, except those in mixed areas a high number of Shafis (northern Egypt, northern Iraq etc). The problem, is that Shafis (Chechens, Ingush and most Dag's) generally do. For a country that smarts under the "Nigeria with snow" slight, it's another nail in that coffin.

    You can describe all you like about how this should be done "correctly" (sounds a bit like commies describing "true" communism), but the communities that practice this, and the, almost always Shafi, religious leaders that promote it are very clear about the method and purpose of this. Its hardly sjwism to object to it going on in your country in a region subsidised by your taxes.

    P.S. Karachai that was meant to be, the people from one of the ethnic republics in Russia, not the city in Pakistan.

    Hey g2k,

    The problem, is that Shafis (Chechens, Ingush and most Dag’s) generally do.

    And will continue to do so.

    but the communities that practice this, and the, almost always Shafi

    Yup.

    I think I wasn’t making my point clear. My point is not that through some magical formula, Muslims adhering to the Shafi’i school for centuries are going to stop female circumcision. They are not, nor are they likely going to listen to it when people call it FGM. My point is that by lumping in a relatively mild practice like female circumcision with all the other egregious nonsense that goes on like complete removal of clitoris or sealing shut the vaginal canal, etc. – one does not do anything helpful to remedy the situation and in fact makes it worse.

    If you want the nonsense to stop, then demand that they start acting like Muslims and actually follow the rules they are supposed to instead of making up stupid rules on their own.

    religious leaders that promote it are very clear about the method and purpose of this

    They are, I just quoted you their verdict based upon the words of strong Shafi’i school authorities like Imam Ibn Hajar Haytami (ra) – feel free to point them out as incorrect (here is his 9 volume commentary on Imam Nawawi’s original work “Minhaj at-Talibin”):

    https://archive.org/details/TuhfatalMuhtajSharhalMinhaj

    Are you saying you’ve seen fatwas that FGM (as opposed female circumcision), like some of the bizarre practices (infibulation, etc.) that are culturally prevalent, is actually sanctioned by the Shariah? I’d love to see the sources. If anything, I have seen fatwas against FGM:
    “Initiated by TARGET, a German human rights organisation, and held under the auspices of the Grand Mufti of Egypt, Professor Ali Gom’a, Muslim scholars from all over the world came together to discuss the practice of FGM with scientists. They passed the resolution, with all the weight of a fatwa, that FGM was to be considered a punishable offence, as an act of aggression, and a crime against humanity. In other parts of Africa, too, religious leaders have spoken out publicly against FGM and are continuing to do so.”

    https://www.giz.de/fachexpertise/downloads/giz2011-en-fgm-islam.pdf

    Its hardly sjwism to object to it going on in your country in a region subsidised by your taxes

    That’s not the problem I had – the problem is when people just lump stuff all together as if there are no gradations. Like calling Charles Murray a Nazi or something silly like that. When people do that, those on the receiving end of the criticism are likely going to ignore you and anything you have to say.

    Karachai

    Ah OK – I assumed the other due to the original spelling you typed.

    peace.

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    • Replies: @iffen
    • LOL: Talha

    Be careful, Nordic princesses can be suspicious at times and “accidently” take a look at their mate’s communications.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Don’t be such a coward. If you believe a disaster is impending because Chechnya says in union with Russia then come out and say it will be better for Russia to discard the NCFD.

    New nationalism all the way.

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  • @g2k
    Date: 2013. Things are worse since then.

    Date: 2013. Things are worse since then.

    Grozny 2017 (from https://www.tourister.ru/responses/id_19313 )

    https://imgur.com/a/fdtWU

    From a relatively prosperous and peaceful life “things are worse since then”?
    Maybe, but it seems weird to me

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniil Adamov
    It is fairly prosperous and peaceful of course. This does not in any way contradict the widely observed trend of progressive Islamisation, or Shariafication, or whatever you call it in Chechnya. From year to year it becomes more and more of an Islamist reservation - which is not to say that it has or is about to turn into Saudi Arabia. It's still nasty enough on its own, with its heightened tolerance for Islamic vigilantism and aggressive contempt for human rights for the wrong sorts of humans. Doubtless this affects different groups and places within Chechnya to a different degree, same as in any other place on Earth.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Anon
    Carthaginians would have wished to be treated like Chechens.

    Yeah perhaps you are right there. I have to admit – Carthage was pulverized completely.

    Stalin of course carted off the Chechens to Siberia, but they were able to come back – stronger than before actually, since all the weaker ones died off.

    Peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniil Adamov
    Carthage was destroyed (and then rebuilt), but Carthaginians weren't. Punic language endured in North Africa for quite a while afterwards. I suppose no one thought to salt the land around Grozny, though.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Nautilus
    I've never bought "Le Based Russia" meme. Russia has more problematic demographics than even a major West European country like the UK has. The ethnic population seems just as disinterested/disempowered in ethno-nationalism as the Brits seem(muh civic nationalism does *not* count).

    The Meduza website is very interesting. The article on chechens in Berlin was golden. So basically all the guys go to nightclubs to pick up cheap and easy German women while they keep their own back home. The same old story/script we've seen over the last 40 years. It works as long as they are in a minority, but if the muslim population reached 15-20% of Berlin, or even higher for the under 35 crowd, things will start to change.

    Overall, it seems to me that the best countries in Europe right now are in the CEE region. The Nordic countries, except Sweden, also do okayish.

    Overall, it seems to me that the best countries in Europe right now are in the CEE region.

    With emphasis on “right now”. They are less sovereign than either West Europe or Russia.
    They won’t get away.

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    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • M

    Having lived in Pakistan before and around devout Muslims from South Asia (mostly Hanafi) much of my life, I have not heard of a single family considering this procedure for their daughters.

    I’m well aware that hanifis and shias generally don’t do this, except those in mixed areas a high number of Shafis (northern Egypt, northern Iraq etc). The problem, is that Shafis (Chechens, Ingush and most Dag’s) generally do. For a country that smarts under the “Nigeria with snow” slight, it’s another nail in that coffin.

    You can describe all you like about how this should be done “correctly” (sounds a bit like commies describing “true” communism), but the communities that practice this, and the, almost always Shafi, religious leaders that promote it are very clear about the method and purpose of this. Its hardly sjwism to object to it going on in your country in a region subsidised by your taxes.

    P.S. Karachai that was meant to be, the people from one of the ethnic republics in Russia, not the city in Pakistan.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey g2k,

    The problem, is that Shafis (Chechens, Ingush and most Dag’s) generally do.
     
    And will continue to do so.

    but the communities that practice this, and the, almost always Shafi
     
    Yup.

    I think I wasn't making my point clear. My point is not that through some magical formula, Muslims adhering to the Shafi'i school for centuries are going to stop female circumcision. They are not, nor are they likely going to listen to it when people call it FGM. My point is that by lumping in a relatively mild practice like female circumcision with all the other egregious nonsense that goes on like complete removal of clitoris or sealing shut the vaginal canal, etc. - one does not do anything helpful to remedy the situation and in fact makes it worse.

    If you want the nonsense to stop, then demand that they start acting like Muslims and actually follow the rules they are supposed to instead of making up stupid rules on their own.

    religious leaders that promote it are very clear about the method and purpose of this
     
    They are, I just quoted you their verdict based upon the words of strong Shafi'i school authorities like Imam Ibn Hajar Haytami (ra) - feel free to point them out as incorrect (here is his 9 volume commentary on Imam Nawawi's original work "Minhaj at-Talibin"):
    https://archive.org/details/TuhfatalMuhtajSharhalMinhaj

    Are you saying you've seen fatwas that FGM (as opposed female circumcision), like some of the bizarre practices (infibulation, etc.) that are culturally prevalent, is actually sanctioned by the Shariah? I'd love to see the sources. If anything, I have seen fatwas against FGM:
    "Initiated by TARGET, a German human rights organisation, and held under the auspices of the Grand Mufti of Egypt, Professor Ali Gom’a, Muslim scholars from all over the world came together to discuss the practice of FGM with scientists. They passed the resolution, with all the weight of a fatwa, that FGM was to be considered a punishable offence, as an act of aggression, and a crime against humanity. In other parts of Africa, too, religious leaders have spoken out publicly against FGM and are continuing to do so."
    https://www.giz.de/fachexpertise/downloads/giz2011-en-fgm-islam.pdf

    Its hardly sjwism to object to it going on in your country in a region subsidised by your taxes
     
    That's not the problem I had - the problem is when people just lump stuff all together as if there are no gradations. Like calling Charles Murray a Nazi or something silly like that. When people do that, those on the receiving end of the criticism are likely going to ignore you and anything you have to say.

    Karachai
     
    Ah OK - I assumed the other due to the original spelling you typed.

    peace.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Talha

    Yes, why Carthage…don’t they know what the Romans did with Carthage?
     
    Possibly, but it doesn't matter, the Chechens already went through worse under Stalin.

    Peace.

    Carthaginians would have wished to be treated like Chechens.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Yeah perhaps you are right there. I have to admit - Carthage was pulverized completely.

    Stalin of course carted off the Chechens to Siberia, but they were able to come back - stronger than before actually, since all the weaker ones died off.

    Peace.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    “perhaps telling of the Russian state’s priorities that it took longer for Roskomnadzor to catch onto them than it did for it to illegally block the moderate Russian nationalist website Sputnik i Pogrom.”

    Yea they were quicker taking down a popular far right website thats been on the web for almost a decade, featured politically prominent writers, and got a +million visits a month than they were taking down some guys facebook page.

    Whats telling is that it was media hot air from an American Jew that got the page shut down. Reminds me of listening to jewish nationalist radio shows like John Batchelor show where they shiver that Moslems are going to take over the Russian army any year now. Or Obama at a UN press conference gloating how “10 million moslems in Russia” are going to cause trouble for Russia for backing Syrias Baath.

    It doesnt occur to you that vk members can just as well be admin added spam like most users on Russian social media websites. Most of the hundred of thousands of people who follow Navalny and other Russian right-liberals on twitter are shown as fake on audit websites. If Russian online activity had any relation to the real world PARNAS would be the countries top party. It gets 1% of the vote nationally.

    And like most of the anglo right wing you project a fake illiberalism. You attack Russias youth as “liberal” with homosexual jeans and bicycles and then attack “Chechens” for….illiberalism. Well which is it? Oh a small ethnic group has a “1.8% interethnic marriage rates” how…normal. The cave man disapproval of interrace marriage that a majority of American had until 1995. Its 2017! (And ironically it was defeat of the left (who you despise) in Russia that created increased religiosity (return of headscarves that real leftists hate and so on). Of course like a liberal you would dismiss this as “soviet police state coercion” and todays capitalism as mans human nature, as if all human societies, especially the atomized liberal ones, arent based on “coercion” and socialization)

    And this is really why Sputnik and Pogrom (and others) got pogromed. The Russian army fought two wars to keep Chechnya in Russia. They are not going to allow punks to give away their land. If one walks around Moscow all the signs are in english, a language that 90% of the population dont speak and the other 10% barely. Yet Russian “nationalists” are more passionate and anxious about some ethnic group that makes up barely 1% of the population than they are about the French and the Germans. Its just deference to a superior force and contempt for those weaker. Some nationalism.

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  • @g2k
    The really will be a colossal bill to pay when attempts to sweep this under the rug fail. Putin seems to have an apres nous le deluge mentality about the place, being happy that violence levels are low, but ignoring serous social divergence.

    There's not much chance of this nonsense spreading to the Tartar/Bashkir republics, but a real danger of it infecting the northwest Caucasus, where it's not currently at a critical level. Chechens dags and Ingush are pretty much a lost cause at this point. About a year ago an NGO documented fgm in Dagestan; hardly surprising since, outside of Africa, Shafi Islam percentage perfectly correlates with fgm prevalence. The really worrying thing about this was that a Karachi imam started condoning it. Those guys are Hanifi and similar, at the minute, to Turks.

    Hey g2k,

    A note; the Shafi’i school condones no such thing as FGM. You can see the details of what the actual fatwa is on here:
    “He [Ramli*] says that it is the removal of some skin from the clitoral prepuce. This is also mentioned by Ibn Hajar in Tuhfah 9/198. In these passages, the word “bazr” is mentioned. Sahib al-Misbah al-Munir mentions that the”bazr” in circumcision is the prepuce. Thus, what is intended is a part of the prepuce surrounding the clitoris and not the clitoris itself.”

    http://shafiifiqh.com/question-details.aspx?qstID=173

    It is fairly clear that the procedure is akin to male circumcision (unless people want to also call that MGM). Now if people aren’t following the fatwa or making up their own procedures, then that is a medical or a social problem that local governments need to address.

    a Karachi imam started condoning it. Those guys are Hanifi

    As the above resource points out, nobody is going to condemn the procedure. It is acceptable by all schools; the only difference is whether it is considered; a) obligatory, b) recommended or c) merely permissible. Having lived in Pakistan before and around devout Muslims from South Asia (mostly Hanafi) much of my life, I have not heard of a single family considering this procedure for their daughters.

    NGOs are doing themselves no service by claiming all procedures are equivalent. If they insist on taking this route, it will be completely disregarded by Muslims just like White people should disregard stupid claims of “racism” of anything on a spectrum that SJWs don’t like.
    “There are many forms of circumcision, broadly grouped as excision and infibulation, distinguished by whether labial edges are fused after the genitalia are incised (Figure 1 and Figure 2). Excision entails cutting or removing part or all of the clitoris with or without the labia minora and majora. Some women have only the clitoral prepuce removed. Infibulation (radical circumcision) is excision accompanied by suturing closed the introitus leaving a small opening for passage of urine and menstrual blood. Local customs dictate the timing and form of circumcision chosen….Infibulation is mainly practiced in the horn of Africa; over 80% of circumcised women in Sudan and Somalia are infibulated. The prevalence of mild forms, such as removal or cutting of the clitoral prepuce (analogous to male circumcision) is unknown, although it has been described in the literature.”

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1497147/

    The problem will be that this will not help in curbing the real forms of mutilation that go on. It should simply be insisted that the populations that follow this school reign in excessive or ignorant practices and bring it in line with the procedure “analogous to male circumcision” that the school has been stating for centuries.

    Peace.

    *Note: Imam Khair ud-Din Ramli (ra) was one of those unique souls that had mastered both schools (Hanafi and Shafi’i) and was/is considered an authority in both.

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    • Replies: @Hector_St_Clare
    Talha,

    Malaysia and Kerala, among other places, are also Shafi (according to wiki, at least). I've seen a bunch of accounts by Malaysian women online that suggest that a kind of superficial / nominal FGM is common there, which technically complies with the Shafi jurisprudence but doesn't affect health or sexual function. A friend of mine lived in Indonesia (also Shafi) and he says the 'little nick' form of 'technical' FGM is common there also.

    In other Shafi countries like Yemen and Somalia, I guess one sees FGM in all its full and horrible glory.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @melanf
    A football match in Grozny

    https://imgur.com/a/PrbbF

    Not so much of Sharia.

    Photo from https://odin-moy-den.livejournal.com/1249721.html

    Date: 2013. Things are worse since then.

    Read More
    • Replies: @melanf

    Date: 2013. Things are worse since then.
     
    Grozny 2017 (from https://www.tourister.ru/responses/id_19313 )

    https://imgur.com/a/fdtWU

    From a relatively prosperous and peaceful life "things are worse since then"?
    Maybe, but it seems weird to me
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • I’ve never bought “Le Based Russia” meme. Russia has more problematic demographics than even a major West European country like the UK has. The ethnic population seems just as disinterested/disempowered in ethno-nationalism as the Brits seem(muh civic nationalism does *not* count).

    The Meduza website is very interesting. The article on chechens in Berlin was golden. So basically all the guys go to nightclubs to pick up cheap and easy German women while they keep their own back home. The same old story/script we’ve seen over the last 40 years. It works as long as they are in a minority, but if the muslim population reached 15-20% of Berlin, or even higher for the under 35 crowd, things will start to change.

    Overall, it seems to me that the best countries in Europe right now are in the CEE region. The Nordic countries, except Sweden, also do okayish.

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    • Replies: @Anon

    Overall, it seems to me that the best countries in Europe right now are in the CEE region.
     
    With emphasis on "right now". They are less sovereign than either West Europe or Russia.
    They won't get away.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Mao Cheng Ji

    But here’s the key difference: The 55,000 membership of Carthage on Vkontakte at the time of its closure represents 3.5% of all the Chechens in Russia.
     
    How do you know there are any Chechens at all among those 55,000? This is the internet, brother. The US establishment media keep informing us of hundreds of thousands of Russian trolls spreading fake news, subversion, and propaganda all over the Wholesome American Web; what's a lousy 55K accounts compared to that?

    How do you know there are any Chechens at all among those 55,000?

    If anyone has the list, it’d be a fun hour or so writing a Python script that could cross chech them against databases of various ethnic names and get a breakdown by actual ethnicity. I suspect quite a lot would actually be Dagsand Ingush which would make it not quite so depressing (would lower the % of the population dramatically).

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  • @melanf

    I have a question; does Russia suffer (generally speaking) from the white-knight syndrome where they feel like they have to help save these poor Chechen women from their patriarchal, tribal, religious culture?
     
    Definitely not. Russian (absolute majority) indifferent about the fate of Chechen women, and customs of the Chechen society.
    Russian concerned about Islamic terrorism and ethnic and organized crime. Excluding these issues, the Russian stand for the full freedom of the Chechen people in the Chechen Republic..

    Excluding these issues, the Russian stand for the full freedom of the Chechen people in the Chechen Republic..

    Might be a bit short sighted. The terrain there is as beautiful as the best of the alps and could really be developed. The Caspian beaches are better than the black sea ones, but can hardly be enjoyed of you’re likely to get akbared for wearing a swimsuit. If northeast Caucasian attitudes to the rest of the country reallybare represented by that, then the subsidies start to resemble protection money.

    IMHO, the best thing they could do would be to make islamism related offences punishable by revocation of citizenship and start deporting the most egregious offenders to the middle east, then steadily ratcheting down the criteria. Karyrov has got to the point where him, and his clan, need to just ‘disappear’ one day and be replaced with technocrats.

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  • The really will be a colossal bill to pay when attempts to sweep this under the rug fail. Putin seems to have an apres nous le deluge mentality about the place, being happy that violence levels are low, but ignoring serous social divergence.

    There’s not much chance of this nonsense spreading to the Tartar/Bashkir republics, but a real danger of it infecting the northwest Caucasus, where it’s not currently at a critical level. Chechens dags and Ingush are pretty much a lost cause at this point. About a year ago an NGO documented fgm in Dagestan; hardly surprising since, outside of Africa, Shafi Islam percentage perfectly correlates with fgm prevalence. The really worrying thing about this was that a Karachi imam started condoning it. Those guys are Hanifi and similar, at the minute, to Turks.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey g2k,

    A note; the Shafi'i school condones no such thing as FGM. You can see the details of what the actual fatwa is on here:
    "He [Ramli*] says that it is the removal of some skin from the clitoral prepuce. This is also mentioned by Ibn Hajar in Tuhfah 9/198. In these passages, the word "bazr" is mentioned. Sahib al-Misbah al-Munir mentions that the"bazr" in circumcision is the prepuce. Thus, what is intended is a part of the prepuce surrounding the clitoris and not the clitoris itself."
    http://shafiifiqh.com/question-details.aspx?qstID=173

    It is fairly clear that the procedure is akin to male circumcision (unless people want to also call that MGM). Now if people aren't following the fatwa or making up their own procedures, then that is a medical or a social problem that local governments need to address.

    a Karachi imam started condoning it. Those guys are Hanifi
     
    As the above resource points out, nobody is going to condemn the procedure. It is acceptable by all schools; the only difference is whether it is considered; a) obligatory, b) recommended or c) merely permissible. Having lived in Pakistan before and around devout Muslims from South Asia (mostly Hanafi) much of my life, I have not heard of a single family considering this procedure for their daughters.

    NGOs are doing themselves no service by claiming all procedures are equivalent. If they insist on taking this route, it will be completely disregarded by Muslims just like White people should disregard stupid claims of "racism" of anything on a spectrum that SJWs don't like.
    “There are many forms of circumcision, broadly grouped as excision and infibulation, distinguished by whether labial edges are fused after the genitalia are incised (Figure 1 and Figure 2). Excision entails cutting or removing part or all of the clitoris with or without the labia minora and majora. Some women have only the clitoral prepuce removed. Infibulation (radical circumcision) is excision accompanied by suturing closed the introitus leaving a small opening for passage of urine and menstrual blood. Local customs dictate the timing and form of circumcision chosen….Infibulation is mainly practiced in the horn of Africa; over 80% of circumcised women in Sudan and Somalia are infibulated. The prevalence of mild forms, such as removal or cutting of the clitoral prepuce (analogous to male circumcision) is unknown, although it has been described in the literature.”
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1497147/

    The problem will be that this will not help in curbing the real forms of mutilation that go on. It should simply be insisted that the populations that follow this school reign in excessive or ignorant practices and bring it in line with the procedure "analogous to male circumcision" that the school has been stating for centuries.

    Peace.

    *Note: Imam Khair ud-Din Ramli (ra) was one of those unique souls that had mastered both schools (Hanafi and Shafi'i) and was/is considered an authority in both.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • A football match in Grozny

    https://imgur.com/a/PrbbF

    Not so much of Sharia.

    Photo from https://odin-moy-den.livejournal.com/1249721.html

    Read More
    • Replies: @g2k
    Date: 2013. Things are worse since then.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Talha
    Very interesting. Couple of points...

    1) Vigilantism should never be acceptable. Exceptions to this rule include complete breakdown of law and order due to nuclear war or zombie apocalypse.
    2) Not sure if this is accurate:

    The 55,000 membership of Carthage on Vkontakte at the time of its closure represents 3.5% of all the Chechens in Russia.
     
    If the site is in Russian, plenty of other Muslim ethnics could also be interested in its content - other Caucasian Muslims. I used to visit Kavkaz for years before giving up once it was clear the Chechen resistance had come under the leadership of extremist elements.
    3) If those Chechens in Russia proper have nothing better to do than talk "kuffar this" and "kuffar that", they should simply leave and go back to Chechnya. The spiritual damage done to one's soul by living in an environment where they are constantly in a bipolar state of having to reside among people they consider evil is simply not worth it. The good thing is that the Damascene scholars will be opening up a university in Grozny - hopefully this will counter some of the more extreme and ignorant voices in the region (which heretofore was one of our hinterlands without solid connection to the main centers of knowledge):
    "During the meeting the mufti of Chechnya and the head of Syria agreed to open in Grozny branch of the Islamic University."
    http://rusversion.info/russia/28543-russia-chechnya-syria-assad-is-grateful-for-the-shelters-and-mosques.html
    4)

    Although they don’t promote Chechen independence, that is clearly driven by pragmatic reasons:
     
    Sure, as are many political arrangements. The entry of Scotland into the United Kingdom was one and people still seem to be thinking that one over, the Netherlands has a complex decentralized government due to two main linguistic/cultural divisions, Czechoslovakia is no more, etc. - all acts of political pragmatism. Why would anyone expect Chechens to think it's awesome to be part of Russia? Since that area was wrested from the gun-powder Persian empire of the time (Qajars I think), the relationship between the Chechens and Russia have been hostile and fairly tragic for the Chechens (under both the Tsars and Communists). The only exception to this has been the recent Kadyrov-Putin relationship which has worked positively for Chechens materially. If it starts being to their disadvantage, what other possible reason do they have to want to report to Moscow; religious, cultural, linguistic, historic? I mean, the only reason Russia keeps Chechnya is also pragmatic - correct?
    5) I have a question; does Russia suffer (generally speaking) from the white-knight syndrome where they feel like they have to help save these poor Chechen women from their patriarchal, tribal, religious culture? Is that ever used for justification for why Russia can never leave; because the Taliban...er, Chechen fathers...? Or are they more practical in the vein of; well, it's fine for them if they rule themselves by it in their lands as long as it doesn't affect me.

    Peace.

    I have a question; does Russia suffer (generally speaking) from the white-knight syndrome where they feel like they have to help save these poor Chechen women from their patriarchal, tribal, religious culture?

    Definitely not. Russian (absolute majority) indifferent about the fate of Chechen women, and customs of the Chechen society.
    Russian concerned about Islamic terrorism and ethnic and organized crime. Excluding these issues, the Russian stand for the full freedom of the Chechen people in the Chechen Republic..

    Read More
    • Replies: @g2k

    Excluding these issues, the Russian stand for the full freedom of the Chechen people in the Chechen Republic..
     
    Might be a bit short sighted. The terrain there is as beautiful as the best of the alps and could really be developed. The Caspian beaches are better than the black sea ones, but can hardly be enjoyed of you're likely to get akbared for wearing a swimsuit. If northeast Caucasian attitudes to the rest of the country reallybare represented by that, then the subsidies start to resemble protection money.

    IMHO, the best thing they could do would be to make islamism related offences punishable by revocation of citizenship and start deporting the most egregious offenders to the middle east, then steadily ratcheting down the criteria. Karyrov has got to the point where him, and his clan, need to just 'disappear' one day and be replaced with technocrats.

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Very interesting. Couple of points…

    1) Vigilantism should never be acceptable. Exceptions to this rule include complete breakdown of law and order due to nuclear war or zombie apocalypse.
    2) Not sure if this is accurate:

    The 55,000 membership of Carthage on Vkontakte at the time of its closure represents 3.5% of all the Chechens in Russia.

    If the site is in Russian, plenty of other Muslim ethnics could also be interested in its content – other Caucasian Muslims. I used to visit Kavkaz for years before giving up once it was clear the Chechen resistance had come under the leadership of extremist elements.
    3) If those Chechens in Russia proper have nothing better to do than talk “kuffar this” and “kuffar that”, they should simply leave and go back to Chechnya. The spiritual damage done to one’s soul by living in an environment where they are constantly in a bipolar state of having to reside among people they consider evil is simply not worth it. The good thing is that the Damascene scholars will be opening up a university in Grozny – hopefully this will counter some of the more extreme and ignorant voices in the region (which heretofore was one of our hinterlands without solid connection to the main centers of knowledge):
    “During the meeting the mufti of Chechnya and the head of Syria agreed to open in Grozny branch of the Islamic University.”

    http://rusversion.info/russia/28543-russia-chechnya-syria-assad-is-grateful-for-the-shelters-and-mosques.html

    4)

    Although they don’t promote Chechen independence, that is clearly driven by pragmatic reasons:

    Sure, as are many political arrangements. The entry of Scotland into the United Kingdom was one and people still seem to be thinking that one over, the Netherlands has a complex decentralized government due to two main linguistic/cultural divisions, Czechoslovakia is no more, etc. – all acts of political pragmatism. Why would anyone expect Chechens to think it’s awesome to be part of Russia? Since that area was wrested from the gun-powder Persian empire of the time (Qajars I think), the relationship between the Chechens and Russia have been hostile and fairly tragic for the Chechens (under both the Tsars and Communists). The only exception to this has been the recent Kadyrov-Putin relationship which has worked positively for Chechens materially. If it starts being to their disadvantage, what other possible reason do they have to want to report to Moscow; religious, cultural, linguistic, historic? I mean, the only reason Russia keeps Chechnya is also pragmatic – correct?
    5) I have a question; does Russia suffer (generally speaking) from the white-knight syndrome where they feel like they have to help save these poor Chechen women from their patriarchal, tribal, religious culture? Is that ever used for justification for why Russia can never leave; because the Taliban…er, Chechen fathers…? Or are they more practical in the vein of; well, it’s fine for them if they rule themselves by it in their lands as long as it doesn’t affect me.

    Peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @melanf

    I have a question; does Russia suffer (generally speaking) from the white-knight syndrome where they feel like they have to help save these poor Chechen women from their patriarchal, tribal, religious culture?
     
    Definitely not. Russian (absolute majority) indifferent about the fate of Chechen women, and customs of the Chechen society.
    Russian concerned about Islamic terrorism and ethnic and organized crime. Excluding these issues, the Russian stand for the full freedom of the Chechen people in the Chechen Republic..
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Carthago Delenda Erat.
    Any ideas as to who was the Russian Cato who pulled the plug ?

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  • @The Big Red Scary
    >=3.5%. Finally, a base rate estimate for Chechen extremism. You can probably do even better by extrapolating from vk demographics to get a base rate estimate for young Chechen males.

    By the way, I don't go to nightclubs, or even toilets therein, but I'm pretty sure that I saw a Russian couple (potentially) reproducing in a rather muddy pond in dacha country. So maybe even these Carthage guys sometimes make a good point.

    in a rather muddy pond in dacha country

    You can just look at the pictures that AK posts of himself and know that he would never mud-wrestle, even for the best piece of Russian ass ever.

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  • @German_reader
    Yes, why Carthage...don't they know what the Romans did with Carthage?

    The 55,000 membership of Carthage on Vkontakte at the time of its closure represents 3.5% of all the Chechens in Russia.
     
    So if women are forbidden from commenting, does that mean it represents about 7% of Chechen men?

    Yes, why Carthage…don’t they know what the Romans did with Carthage?

    Possibly, but it doesn’t matter, the Chechens already went through worse under Stalin.

    Peace.

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    • Replies: @Anon
    Carthaginians would have wished to be treated like Chechens.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • But here’s the key difference: The 55,000 membership of Carthage on Vkontakte at the time of its closure represents 3.5% of all the Chechens in Russia.

    How do you know there are any Chechens at all among those 55,000? This is the internet, brother. The US establishment media keep informing us of hundreds of thousands of Russian trolls spreading fake news, subversion, and propaganda all over the Wholesome American Web; what’s a lousy 55K accounts compared to that?

    Read More
    • Replies: @g2k

    How do you know there are any Chechens at all among those 55,000?
     
    If anyone has the list, it'd be a fun hour or so writing a Python script that could cross chech them against databases of various ethnic names and get a breakdown by actual ethnicity. I suspect quite a lot would actually be Dagsand Ingush which would make it not quite so depressing (would lower the % of the population dramatically).
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Yes, why Carthage…don’t they know what the Romans did with Carthage?

    The 55,000 membership of Carthage on Vkontakte at the time of its closure represents 3.5% of all the Chechens in Russia.

    So if women are forbidden from commenting, does that mean it represents about 7% of Chechen men?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha

    Yes, why Carthage…don’t they know what the Romans did with Carthage?
     
    Possibly, but it doesn't matter, the Chechens already went through worse under Stalin.

    Peace.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Once the Putin-Kadyrov “special relationship” breaks down due to political or actuarial factors, a new generation of skinny jeans wearing, organic food court-frequenting Russians will have to reenter political negotiations with a new generation of young, Internet-savvy Chechens who are more into stonings for adultery in the Caucasus Emirate.

    This makes Ukraine’s long-term prospects more positive, in comparison.

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  • @Daniil Adamov
    ...but why Carthage?

    Clash of civilizations.

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  • >=3.5%. Finally, a base rate estimate for Chechen extremism. You can probably do even better by extrapolating from vk demographics to get a base rate estimate for young Chechen males.

    By the way, I don’t go to nightclubs, or even toilets therein, but I’m pretty sure that I saw a Russian couple (potentially) reproducing in a rather muddy pond in dacha country. So maybe even these Carthage guys sometimes make a good point.

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    in a rather muddy pond in dacha country

    You can just look at the pictures that AK posts of himself and know that he would never mud-wrestle, even for the best piece of Russian ass ever.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • …but why Carthage?

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    • Replies: @songbird
    Clash of civilizations.
    , @attiIathehen
    Rome Vs. Carthage. The Punic Wars.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • I was walking down Massachusetts Avenue in 2002 when Dick Cheney's motorcade of about 15 vehicles roared by, sirens wailing, toward the White House. I thought to myself, Wow, I don't know ... If I had to put the rest of the world to so much trouble every time I wanted to go to a...
  • Hunsdon:
    Shamil Basayev's early ops (Beslan ruined him for me) were classic, classic examples of effective fighting.

    Over one hundred hostages in Budyonnovsk hospital killed and many hundreds injured – is that what makes one a hero in your eyes? Did you have an orgasm on 9/11, too?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budyonnovsk_hospital_hostage_crisis

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  • Chechens are brutal twits.

    Is it a good or a bad thing that some of our women choose to breed with these morons? If you look at modern Maori, they are clearly a mixture between Polynesian and the lowest elements in white society. Through their brown complexions, you can see the features of the kind of white people who appear of the Jeremy Kyle Show.

    We will end up with a giant mixed race undercaster, but the whites who are left behind might be smarter? I don't know.

    Does this account for high Jewish IQ's? The dumber one's married out.

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  • That's because Chechens never had cities. Smallish villages in the mountains.

    No but other Caucasian peoples, such as the Georgians and Circassians, had true cities.

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  • Ladies and Gentleman, the President of Chechnia: Dwayne Elizondo Mountain-Dew Herbert Kadyrov

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  • How the ef does this man not have his own reality show!

    Keeping up the Kardashians?

    Pshaw

    Ridin' with the Ramzan.

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  • One good pileup would wipe out at least 10% of Chechnya's GDP.

    Peter

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  • Anonydroid at 3:38 AM said: It's just that man for man they're not as effective fighters compared to Europeans, so you need more rabble for escort.

    Hunsdon said: I'd love to see you develop that one further. Shamil Basayev's early ops (Beslan ruined him for me) were classic, classic examples of effective fighting.

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  • Anonydroid at 2:20 PM said: Russian HMGs are typically chambered for 14.5mm, IIRC.

    Hunsdon: <a title=”"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DShK>The&#8221; href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DShK>The Mighty Degtaryev is a .50</a>

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  • The point is that you don't know which car The Checheniest is riding in (driving?) and which three others are carrying his doubles so you don't know which to pot with an RPG or slag with a 12.7mm

    Russian HMGs are typically chambered for 14.5mm, IIRC.

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  • when robot cars come into the mainstream, how many will these guys have? a 500 vehicle fleet?

    the third world posse in 2050: 500 mercedes e450 electrobot sedans clogging the main highways of sao paolo, riyadh, mexico city, kiev, bogota…houston? los angeles? miami?

    still firing surplus cold war era AKs into the air though. hey, those are vintage! we even used them in elysium. if the 1911 has been around for 100 years, why not the AK.

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  • unironically scared cossack said…
    Steve Grozny is Russian for terrible (look up Ivan the). Grozny was founded and named by cassocks. damn.

    1/31/14, 6:12 AM

    From your screen name I'm sure you meant founded by Cossacks, not cassocks, which are priestly garb.

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  • Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Fort Thunder – cool name.

    .

    "It's just that man for man they're not as effective fighters compared to Europeans, so you need more rabble for escort."

    Other way round methinks. Europeans have (or had before they lost group identity) a group synergy bonus through improved levels of co-operation. This makes (made) them less effective fighters man for man but more effective the larger the scale.

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  • "while steering with your left elbow and swigging vodka from the bottle…"

    Caucasus natives aren't really into vodka. Georgians, who are Christians, make and drink wine. They're not known for alcoholism though. In some ways these people are like southern Italians, with a similar attitude to drink.

    "Steve Grozny is Russian for terrible (look up Ivan the)."

    The word grozny means menacing, severe, fear-inducing. It's derived from the Russian word for thunder. Ivan Grozny was really Ivan the Thunderous. The English translation of his nickname was meant to evoke images of terrible wrath, not of poor quality of government. The city of Grozny was founded as a Russian fortress in a hostile land, so its name was meant to inspire fear.

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  • Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    When Reagan visited the University of South Carolina in September 83' they asked for volunteers to drive cars in the motorcade at the student union or whatever. My father was selected, never mentioned how many cars were in it. He did remember several men in surrounding cars discreetly toting automatic weapons though, and a military helicopter trailing the route.

    -SonOfStrom

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  • Steve Grozny is Russian for terrible (look up Ivan the). Grozny was founded and named by cossacks

    That's because Chechens never had cities. Smallish villages in the mountains. Grozny's population before the first Chechen war was actually majority Russian. They were majority civilian casualties too, having nowhere to flee.

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  • It's not as if POTUS cavalcades are quiet things. Tens of cars, helicopters in the air, snipers on the roofs. Police cars blocking the streets… Over a thousand people involved just to get these replaceable nitwits from A to B. And still pretty easy to blow their presidential brains out. Remember Mandela's funeral?

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  • The point is that you don't know which car The Checheniest is riding in (driving?) and which three others are carrying his doubles so you don't know which to pot with an RPG or slag with a 12.7mm. The big speeding swerving motorcade of tinted-window SUV's and sturdy sedans is standard war-zone stuff, as well as being a hell of a lot of fun from the inside.

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  • Steve Grozny is Russian for terrible (look up Ivan the). Grozny was founded and named by cassocks. damn.

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  • Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    You would think, but the very first car to come by is a white police car with a blue stripe and lights mounted on top — and I don't see that one again.

    Ahah! That one pulled over early because they knew that the smarter rubes would be looking for it. Shades of the story where different people get on and off a bus at each bus stop and at the end, one is asked "How many stops did they make?"

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  • Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    ~100 Cars = ~400 gunmen. It's not a motorcade, it's a motorized battalion. And it's justified considering what Basayev et al had been able to throw at them.

    To be fair who would care to kill POTUS? What difference would it make? What's the marginal utility of adding another car to Obama's motorcade against the likes of Squeaky Fromme or John Hinckley?

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  • You can spend days on you-tube watching Russian mafia driving cars, I believe the record is +125 cars. Actually kind of strange that noone takes out these sitting ducks.

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  • It's just that man for man they're not as effective fighters compared to Europeans, so you need more rabble for escort.

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  • You would think, but the very first car to come by is a white police car with a blue stripe and lights mounted on top — and I don't see that one again.

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  • Are you sure this is not the Rommel trick of driving the same vehicles around the block ad infinitum?

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  • "Can you imagine debasing yourself by being the driver of some psychopath's 100th escort car?"

    It actually sounds like a better time than lifelong anonymous cubicle drone.

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  • "Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!"

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  • I am Kadyrov
    Look upon my works, ye mighty
    - Aren't they awesome, bro?

    Btw, one of the hazards of being the driver of the last car in the entourage is being hit by falling bullets from preceding cars (assuming the cars proceed in a straight line).

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  • "You got something against vibrancy?
    P.S. In Tyler Cowen's Beantopia, there will be a certain number of promising new jobs as the drivers of 200th-300th cars in motorcades."

    "As Ramzan Kadyrov would say, Average Is Over!"

    ————————————————————————

    It would seem instead of a despotic banana republic, future America will be a dyspeptic (as well as dysgenic) beanana republic.

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  • Here's the Cheney motorcade:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1l1PXsNsxc

    Pathetic!

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  • More Caucasian awesomeness. The saga of Stefan Martirosian: Hollywood, DEA, CIA, Kremlin intrigue. Couldn't make this up.

    >>Dugs, Diamonds, International Intrigue — You Won't Believe Two Hollywood Producers' Crazy Backstory

    http://www.laweekly.com/2014-01-02/news/remington-chase-stefan-martirosian/

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  • True. But they are a highly distilled people.

    Kadyrov has about 2x the motorcade of Obama in a country with 1/150th the population.

    So Chechens must be 300x Chechenier than USians.

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  • >>All of this for a little Russian republic of less than 2 million people. Chechnya has fewer people than the greater Kansas City metro.

    True. But they are a highly distilled people.

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  • OT. Who says that the New York Times won't allow for a free and fair debate of immigration?

    "Deporting Justin Bieber"
    http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2014/01/30/when-visa-holders-behave-badly-in-the-us?gwh=045A7D276F1759AF318D78AFC8DE9A7C&gwt=pay

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  • Cowen's beanville will be a boon for the energy industry.

    http://youtu.be/vWF_eQhNyMQ?t=59s

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  • Maybe the mayor of Kansas City should have a motorcade?

    I don't see why anyone with man-on-the-street name recognition should travel anywhere with less than an infantry platoon.

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  • OT. Who says that the New York Times won't allow for a free and fair debate of immigration?

    "Deporting Justin Bieber"
    http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2014/01/30/when-visa-holders-behave-badly-in-the-us?gwh=045A7D276F1759AF318D78AFC8DE9A7C&gwt=pay

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  • All of this for a little Russian republic of less than 2 million people. Chechnya has fewer people than the greater Kansas City metro.

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  • Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    P.S. In Tyler Cowen's Beantopia, there will be a certain number of promising new jobs as the drivers of 200th-300th cars in motorcades.

    And look for the security force's union to demand passengers riding shotgun, if there aren't already. You could be looking at a good 500 people in motorcades as the trend continues – two infantry companies!

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  • Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Here's a higher quality video of a different Kadyrov motorcade.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rk1adOy6d1c

    No automatic gunfire though. But this one has 6 minutes of cars going past.

    I can confirm that just when you think it's over, those are the crappier cars and it's still the motorcade.

    To Steve's point – can you imagine being so self-important that you have 100 cars escort you? Can you imagine debasing yourself by being the driver of some psychopath's 100th escort car?

    Is this a good time to be a manufacturer of siren units for cars?

    If we had Steve's immigration safety board, would they notice any problems with immigrants from countries where the police fire their weapons out the window?

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  • "A lot of things would be awesomer if you were a Chechen."

    Here I am! Rock you like like a Chechen!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxdmw4tJJ1Y

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  • I clicked on the ESPN feature "Where is Olympic flame today?" and ... yeah, I should have guessed:In other Chechen news, Larry David buys a detonator from Tibor the Chechen.In future Chechen news:Wearing a stunning floor-length Givenchy gown, former Chechen strongwoman Ramzana Kadyrova was the center of photographers' attention once again as she walked the...
  • I saw VP Cheney's motorcade go by. It was about 15 vehicles.

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  • "ironrailsironweights said…

    Kadyrov's motorcade. Completely dwarfs Obama's."

    That's impressive. Is that for real, or are they just driving round-and-round the block to make it seem bigger? The celebratory automatic-weapons fire was a nice touch. Truly, their big-man is very big.

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  • If one can be Ex-Chechen, can one be Ex-Black?

    Just ask the chancellor of the Ex-Chechen.

    Seriously though, if one can be ex-Mormon, or ex-JW, or ex-Moonie, then why can't one be ex-Jewish?

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  • Priss Factor [AKA "Gubbler Of The Society Of Reformed Chechenistics"] says: • Website

    "I can't possibly think of a more desirable group of immigrants to enrich America with."

    Chechens are a rough lot, but Chechenology may be useful to us.
    Civilized folks need infusions of barbarian soul or else they become decadent.

    It's like some plants are too strong for eating but they may have chemicals that may be good as medicine. So, you draw out the chemicals.
    Similarly, we can draw out the Chechen warrior soul and absorb it without taking all the bad stuff associated with Chechen culture: wife stealing, throat-slitting, beating up wives, drinking too much, and blowing stuff up.

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  • Anonymous • Disclaimer says:


    I mean, do kids even have a gender identity at the age of 10?

    Actually, yes.

    See, for example, Eleanor MacCoby's book The Two Sexes: Growing Up Apart and Coming Together.

    They very clearly recognize who is male and who is female at a young age based on play and behavior styles, and want to be with those of the same sexual identity.

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  • Chechens.

    I can't possibly think of a more desirable group of immigrants to enrich America with.

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  • "Observers were unanimous in their condemnation of Putin, who is currently digging in at Volgograd for what promises to be his last stand against NATO's tanks."

    Hm, the way things are going I can see Arlene Biden and her Presidential Guard digging in at Cheyenne Mountain for a last stand against the Russian tanks… 'President Putin has assured the American People that the Russians come not as Occupiers but as Liberators. Polls indicate that most districts are broadly supportive of the Russian intervention.'

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  • Bravo !

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  • Hi Steve,

    Thanks for being so open in regards to link posting and information exchange in the comments. So many good links from so many interesting commentators.

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  • True conservatives are gonna be all alone like Will Kane in HIGH NOON. Everyone is either hiding, giving up, or collaborating with Pink Miller.

    It's business.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXhiq6E9L40

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  • Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    http://www.theamericanconservative.com/corporatism-and-gay-marriage-natural-bedfellows/

    Look at the giant homo flag. Who designed it? Who controls the media that promoted it? How much did it cost? Who paid for it?

    And yet, GOP is all about pandering to Wall Street.

    GOP pandering to Jews and homos is just like Yahoo, Google, and Apple pandering to China's censorship laws. Since they wanna do business with China, they not only overlook but adapt their technology to aid and abet China's police state.

    Profitics is politics.

    In China, you gotta pay tribute to the bosses of the Communist Party.
    In the US, if you wanna do business, you gotta pay tribute to Jewish monarchy and homo noblemen.

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  • A transgender FIFTH GRADER!

    http://bigstory.ap.org/article/court-transgender-students-rights-were-violated

    I mean, do kids even have a gender identity at the age of 10?

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