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    Artists' rendition of Roskomnadzor trying to block Telegram. The problem isn't even so much the cack-handed authoritarianism, though that's bad enough. Russian web censor Roskomnadzor's (RKN) blockage of Telegram several days ago will negatively affect the 15 million Russians who use the platform, which combines the functionality of Twitter (public blogs, channels) and WhatsApp (mobile...
  • So, rumor grapevine concerning the 24 hour American IRS outage has the following:

    1: Russian SVR was deeply dismayed by Roselkomnadzors clown car antics, and believed that Russian cyber deterrence was threatened by this public show of incompetence.

    2: IRS was taken down for 24 hours to have some lulz/bragging rights/making someone look more stupid that Roselkomnadzor. One cannot accuse the SVR of setting only modest goals for itself. 2/3 so far.

    3: IRS takedown was also because some SVR affiliated rich guys are pretty displeased with the state of US double taxation. You see, normal rich people have tax optimizers, certain Oligarchs have the SVR.

    4: Replaceing IRS website with a Roselkomnadzor notice “Website taken down for financial scamming” was considered, but not utilized due either a lack of humor or to the prophecies of Kek not being sufficiently advanced.

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  • @Felix Keverich
    You seem to enjoy arguing for the sake of arguing. :)

    Most US government officials are idiots, that's a given (the head of the FBI is an idiot: he doesn't know what Gazprom is). But they are also virulently Russophobic.

    You are incapable of ceding a point, however small it is.

    The restaurants got sanitary inspections from the NYC government, not some visit from the FBI, it’s unlikely that Telegram would ever get something like that, because, well, it’s not a restaurant.

    The stupidity of the Pointy-Haired Boss is no proof that Dilbert is stupid, too.

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  • @reiner Tor

    Why would a sanitary inspector ask questions about Putin?
     
    Because he’s an idiot?

    Read your own link, it was a sanitary inspection, not the FBI.

    You seem to enjoy arguing for the sake of arguing. :)

    Most US government officials are idiots, that’s a given (the head of the FBI is an idiot: he doesn’t know what Gazprom is). But they are also virulently Russophobic.

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    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    You are incapable of ceding a point, however small it is.

    The restaurants got sanitary inspections from the NYC government, not some visit from the FBI, it’s unlikely that Telegram would ever get something like that, because, well, it’s not a restaurant.

    The stupidity of the Pointy-Haired Boss is no proof that Dilbert is stupid, too.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Felix Keverich

    The reason why Telegram doesn’t get sanitary inspections (overzealous or not) is that it’s not a restaurant.
     
    Are you kidding me? Why would a sanitary inspector ask questions about Putin?

    Teremok CEO confirmed the incident in a facebook post. I'm not particularly interested in the US govt side of the story, since my level of trust in US govt is approaching zero.

    Why would a sanitary inspector ask questions about Putin?

    Because he’s an idiot?

    Read your own link, it was a sanitary inspection, not the FBI.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
    You seem to enjoy arguing for the sake of arguing. :)

    Most US government officials are idiots, that's a given (the head of the FBI is an idiot: he doesn't know what Gazprom is). But they are also virulently Russophobic.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Felix Keverich

    The reason why Telegram doesn’t get sanitary inspections (overzealous or not) is that it’s not a restaurant.
     
    Are you kidding me? Why would a sanitary inspector ask questions about Putin?

    Teremok CEO confirmed the incident in a facebook post. I'm not particularly interested in the US govt side of the story, since my level of trust in US govt is approaching zero.

    It’s not the US government.

    It’s the City of New York government.

    Not that you should trust them either.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @reiner Tor
    Putting aside the fact that the story is not in any way corroborated (only source is RT, which would for example be impossible to use on normies; even RT didn’t bother to call the inspectors to ask for their version of the story, or at least failed to mention it), this was not the FBI, but some overzealous local sanitary inspectors. The reason why Telegram doesn’t get sanitary inspections (overzealous or not) is that it’s not a restaurant.

    The reason why Telegram doesn’t get sanitary inspections (overzealous or not) is that it’s not a restaurant.

    Are you kidding me? Why would a sanitary inspector ask questions about Putin?

    Teremok CEO confirmed the incident in a facebook post. I’m not particularly interested in the US govt side of the story, since my level of trust in US govt is approaching zero.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    It's not the US government.

    It's the City of New York government.

    Not that you should trust them either.
    , @reiner Tor

    Why would a sanitary inspector ask questions about Putin?
     
    Because he’s an idiot?

    Read your own link, it was a sanitary inspection, not the FBI.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @anon

    My main concern is still the lack of pictures of the downed missiles (I guess they should already be found), and in this age of the smartphone I’d also expect more than a couple videos of seventy-something events (though perhaps it being at night is a good explanation).
     
    /conspirologist mode on

    Maybe it was all false flag from the beginning to the end? Maybe there were no missiles at all? Maybe Trump and Putin just played along, and pocketed the $100 million cost of the strike? ;-)

    /conspirologist mode off

    Well, there’s certainly the fact that the Americans didn’t seem to have hit many targets, and what they hit was neither militarily significant to warrant such a large scale attack, nor were they in such a bad shape as you would expect if they really were hit by so many missiles.

    On the other hand, that’s the most significant evidence we have that the Russians managed to take down many of the missiles.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Felix Keverich
    https://www.rt.com/usa/422919-teremok-putin-secret-meetings/

    Putting aside the fact that the story is not in any way corroborated (only source is RT, which would for example be impossible to use on normies; even RT didn’t bother to call the inspectors to ask for their version of the story, or at least failed to mention it), this was not the FBI, but some overzealous local sanitary inspectors. The reason why Telegram doesn’t get sanitary inspections (overzealous or not) is that it’s not a restaurant.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Felix Keverich

    The reason why Telegram doesn’t get sanitary inspections (overzealous or not) is that it’s not a restaurant.
     
    Are you kidding me? Why would a sanitary inspector ask questions about Putin?

    Teremok CEO confirmed the incident in a facebook post. I'm not particularly interested in the US govt side of the story, since my level of trust in US govt is approaching zero.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • anon[371] • Disclaimer says:
    @reiner Tor
    My main concern is still the lack of pictures of the downed missiles (I guess they should already be found), and in this age of the smartphone I’d also expect more than a couple videos of seventy-something events (though perhaps it being at night is a good explanation).

    Not that a few videos are too meaningful to a layperson like me. I remember well when in 1991 we were shown those videos of the American Patriot air defense systems downing Scuds. (As it later turned out, nothing of the sort happened at all.) But the lack of videos is still unexpected.

    Speaking of Iraqi Scuds, the Kuwait War was also a good example of American dishonesty when reporting their glorious military adventures. Besides the lies about the Patriot air defense system, they also claimed on the first couple of days that they had already destroyed 80% of Iraqi military abilities within less than 24 hours. Later it turned out that it was far from being the truth. (The war was an easy enough victory, so few people remember it. The fact that they kept lying during an easy victory doesn’t bode well about how they’d tell the truth during a war which wouldn’t go so well... Though maybe all militaries would do the same.)

    Overall yours is a pretty good summary, and far from unconvincing either. Thanks for it! I have already used it elsewhere.

    My main concern is still the lack of pictures of the downed missiles (I guess they should already be found), and in this age of the smartphone I’d also expect more than a couple videos of seventy-something events (though perhaps it being at night is a good explanation).

    /conspirologist mode on

    Maybe it was all false flag from the beginning to the end? Maybe there were no missiles at all? Maybe Trump and Putin just played along, and pocketed the $100 million cost of the strike? ;-)

    /conspirologist mode off

    Read More
    • LOL: reiner Tor
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    Well, there’s certainly the fact that the Americans didn’t seem to have hit many targets, and what they hit was neither militarily significant to warrant such a large scale attack, nor were they in such a bad shape as you would expect if they really were hit by so many missiles.

    On the other hand, that’s the most significant evidence we have that the Russians managed to take down many of the missiles.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Thorfinnsson
    Rogozin is correct--today.

    However the launch vehicle market is likely to grow ten-fold by mid-century.

    It will likely settle into a stable international oligopoly comparable to the widebody jet airliner and high-bypass turbofan engine markets.

    A major technical problem for Russia in competing in launch is its geography. The closer you are to the equator the more payload you can put into orbit.

    A major technical problem for Russia in competing in launch is its geography. The closer you are to the equator the more payload you can put into orbit.

    Russians are interested in Sea Launch which provides a solution for a reason.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @neutral

    The US government can’t simply ban a website or program.
     
    The "government" doesn't have to do it because the ADL, SPLC, and all the Silicon Valley SJW corporations are doing exactly that.

    And before we get into the tired old "censorship is only about what government does" debate, being censored and destroyed by non government forces (which the US "government" seems to endorse anyway) does not make it any less harmful. You also have to question just how different Google, ADL, Facebook are from the government, to me they are de facto already part of the government.

    These non-government forces also don’t ban websites or programs, though that’s changing as we saw with the Daily Stormer fiasco and the refusal to allow Gab on Google Play and the iPhone.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Felix Keverich
    US passed a law that banned Kasperky software from government computers, they unleashed a campaign of smears against the company.

    FBI sent its agents to investigate the Russian restaurants in NYC: the owner and staff were asked if they support Putin...

    On the other hand, Durov and his Telegram have never encountered this kind of harassment, despite their rising prominence in the US, and possibility of Telegram being used for "Russian election meddling", don't you think it's a little bit suspicious?

    Kaspersky and similar programs have access to the files on your PC and thus are a natural security concern. I am a happy Kaspersky customer incidentally.

    Telegram has no such access.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/106270/#comments

    This seems relevant to Karlin’s robots post

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Frederic Bastiat
    Before the strike it was leaked that 8 targets were in consideration including "two Syrian airfields, a research center and a chemical weapons facility". [1]

    After the strike it was announced by McKenzie that three targets were bombed [2]:
    * "77 missiles destroyed the Barzah Research and Development Center. It does not exist anymore. This will set the Syrian CW program by years."
    * "22 missiles hit the Him Shinshar Chemical Weapons Storage Site. All coalition forces were involved in kinetic strikes"
    * "7 missiles were employed against a third target"

    :
    * Against the Barzah Research and Development Center:
    * Here the targets in red [3]:
    https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-hmZTa7KK_oo/WtMVq9hSJmI/AAAAAAAAaSI/RVJqCPq1pv4f4ESJ5dT4v6AZbdnMWNvDQCLcBGAs/s1600/siria%2Bataque%2BEEUU%2Bbrit%25C3%25A1nico%2Bfranc%25C3%25A9s%2B2018-4-14%2Bzonas%2Bblancos%2B1a.jpg
    * A possible strike pattern according to the above numbers [3]:
    https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-FybtMd68Cfk/WtMWwMNB7TI/AAAAAAAAaSc/vfGo7Gm4vcwi-vXCcb4eBhXsBTC9EmLaQCLcBGAs/s1600/siria%2Bataque%2BEEUU%2Bbrit%25C3%25A1nico%2Bfranc%25C3%25A9s%2B2018-4-14%2Bzonas%2Bblancos%2B1b.jpg
    * The actual damage done by allegedly 34 tons of explosives (in succession) [see Twitter thread for more details]:
    https://twitter.com/vpkivimaki/status/985593196376977409
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=54&v=FhW2G-ynvBc


    * Against the Him Shinshar
    * Targets in red [3]:
    https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-RqYUlkj1yp8/WtMlKQSyjlI/AAAAAAAAaS0/-Cc8m3v2g7MAPlJY2WpxX3jzpLU59O0FQCLcBGAs/s1600/siria%2Bataque%2BEEUU%2Bbrit%25C3%25A1nico%2Bfranc%25C3%25A9s%2B2018-4-14%2Bzonas%2Bblancos%2B2a.jpg
    * Strike pattern according to the numbers [3]:
    https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-p1_G17je-LQ/WtMmeZwtVBI/AAAAAAAAaTY/dL2jlsnMHdQrTIVffpIeZitvkxxxz1pGgCLcBGAs/s1600/siria%2Bataque%2BEEUU%2Bbrit%25C3%25A1nico%2Bfranc%25C3%25A9s%2B2018-4-14%2Bzonas%2Bblancos%2B2%2Bimpactos.jpg
    * The actual damage
    https://twitter.com/DigitalGlobe/status/985319969742381056

    * The third target:
    * Target in red [3]: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-SB_1agXpYQ0/WtMuWCpsp_I/AAAAAAAAaTs/bBfJdoJSZ7UdHMU_Vqs4SLUMkjUedRE9ACLcBGAs/s1600/siria%2Bataque%2BEEUU%2Bbrit%25C3%25A1nico%2Bfranc%25C3%25A9s%2B2018-4-14%2Bzonas%2Bblancos%2B3a.jpg
    * Strike pattern [3]:
    https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-dLdL1wQ5NFY/WtMvRoje0wI/AAAAAAAAaUE/2xmC1HYiEyotaWYqvZAXLqBrwZ3z693xgCLcBGAs/s1600/siria%2Bataque%2BEEUU%2Bbrit%25C3%25A1nico%2Bfranc%25C3%25A9s%2B2018-4-14%2Bzonas%2Bblancos%2B3%2Bimpactos.jpg
    * Actual damage:
    https://static01.nyt.com/newsgraphics/2018/04/13/syria-us-strikes/a25a23b1089c393919bac5ad82970f5b0721b470/homs-before-after-bunker-600.jpg

    Consider:
    * that the facility most probably had no military meaning (chemical or otherwise), as is confirmed by an OPCW inspection in November 2017 [4] and by the fact that first responders did not wear any protective gear
    https://twitter.com/AlSuraEnglish/status/985094026167599104
    * that the supposed attack on meaningless buildings would have cost around $165 Million [5]
    * that the strike was expected to be an escalalation of the previous strike which targeted a military facility
    * that the damage is not consistent with what missiles are supposed to have done as FB has calculated [6]; 34 ton of explosions in close succession on the first target; see also [3] for this and this tomahawk demonstration video
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sa7ZX58Kk4
    * that there is video evidence of at least 1-2 missiles being shot down
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvwtuKY8D54
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vx5ez_KuV5c
    * The Russian claim of 71 shot down missiles is substantiated by the sources of an Western propaganda outlet, the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights[7]


    ----
    Sources:
    [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/12/trump-decision-on-syria-strikes-coming-fairly-soon.html
    [2] (Sources in the link) https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-04-14/highlights-pentagon-press-briefing-syria-airstrikes
    [3] (In Spanish) http://charly015.blogspot.de/2018/04/llego-el-ataque-contra-siria.html
    [4] https://southfront.org/us-led-strike-on-syria-most-of-missiles-spent-on-empty-target-opcw-report-says-no-chemical-weapons-there/
    [5] https://www.businessinsider.de/trump-us-syria-strike-how-many-missiles-were-fired-2017-2018-4?r=US&IR=T
    [6] http://www.unz.com/akarlin/ww3/#comment-2289684
    [7] http://www.syriahr.com/en/?p=89324

    My main concern is still the lack of pictures of the downed missiles (I guess they should already be found), and in this age of the smartphone I’d also expect more than a couple videos of seventy-something events (though perhaps it being at night is a good explanation).

    Not that a few videos are too meaningful to a layperson like me. I remember well when in 1991 we were shown those videos of the American Patriot air defense systems downing Scuds. (As it later turned out, nothing of the sort happened at all.) But the lack of videos is still unexpected.

    Speaking of Iraqi Scuds, the Kuwait War was also a good example of American dishonesty when reporting their glorious military adventures. Besides the lies about the Patriot air defense system, they also claimed on the first couple of days that they had already destroyed 80% of Iraqi military abilities within less than 24 hours. Later it turned out that it was far from being the truth. (The war was an easy enough victory, so few people remember it. The fact that they kept lying during an easy victory doesn’t bode well about how they’d tell the truth during a war which wouldn’t go so well… Though maybe all militaries would do the same.)

    Overall yours is a pretty good summary, and far from unconvincing either. Thanks for it! I have already used it elsewhere.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon

    My main concern is still the lack of pictures of the downed missiles (I guess they should already be found), and in this age of the smartphone I’d also expect more than a couple videos of seventy-something events (though perhaps it being at night is a good explanation).
     
    /conspirologist mode on

    Maybe it was all false flag from the beginning to the end? Maybe there were no missiles at all? Maybe Trump and Putin just played along, and pocketed the $100 million cost of the strike? ;-)

    /conspirologist mode off
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @reiner Tor

    FBI sent its agents to investigate the Russian restaurants in NYC: the owner and staff were asked if they support Putin...
     
    I tried to look it up, but couldn’t find it. Do you have, sources, by any chance?
    Read More
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    Putting aside the fact that the story is not in any way corroborated (only source is RT, which would for example be impossible to use on normies; even RT didn’t bother to call the inspectors to ask for their version of the story, or at least failed to mention it), this was not the FBI, but some overzealous local sanitary inspectors. The reason why Telegram doesn’t get sanitary inspections (overzealous or not) is that it’s not a restaurant.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Felix Keverich
    US passed a law that banned Kasperky software from government computers, they unleashed a campaign of smears against the company.

    FBI sent its agents to investigate the Russian restaurants in NYC: the owner and staff were asked if they support Putin...

    On the other hand, Durov and his Telegram have never encountered this kind of harassment, despite their rising prominence in the US, and possibility of Telegram being used for "Russian election meddling", don't you think it's a little bit suspicious?

    FBI sent its agents to investigate the Russian restaurants in NYC: the owner and staff were asked if they support Putin…

    I tried to look it up, but couldn’t find it. Do you have, sources, by any chance?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
    https://www.rt.com/usa/422919-teremok-putin-secret-meetings/
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Thorfinnsson
    Many Russian commenters here, and not only Russian, seem to be under the impression that Telegram is permitted to exist by the NSA (and other alphabet soup agencies) because it is secretly cooperating with them.

    Telegram may very well be cooperating with the NSA, or perhaps the NSA has penetrated Telegram's servers. We can't know.

    But fundamentally the US government does not work like that. As totalitarian as it would like to be, it's still anchored in Anglo-American laws, traditions, and culture.

    The US government can't simply ban a website or program. A court can issue an injunction for various violations of law, see for instance the recent seizure of Backpages for allegedly aiding human trafficking and prostitution.

    All kinds of privacy tools the government doesn't like are freely available in America. VPNs, Telegram, encryption, burner phones, old-fashioned pay phones, etc.

    Generally the government gets its tentacles into organizations through indirect methods, as the commenter utu pointed out: http://www.unz.com/akarlin/telegramming-incompetence/#comment-2295935

    The US government also engages in signal boosting by investing in protocols and programs that serve its interests. Tor and Signal are good examples, and I immediately distrust any alleged dissident who promotes Signal in particular (Snowden and Weeve). Google was also nurtured by the US intelligence community.

    That said we will probably start seeing formal censorship in the 2020s in the USA. The need to combat "racism" (and, of course, enemies of the Empire) will overwhelm the Constitution.

    The good news is that while our enemies are evil and powerful, just like in Russia they are stupid. A good example is the recent Mueller raid on Trump's lawyer Cohen. The purpose of the raid was to uncover shit about the payoff to Stormy Daniels. If they were smart they'd be looking for evidence of violating laws in the 70s, 80s, and 90s in the course of real estate and casino deals.

    As for Pavel Durov his objections to the Russian government strike me as quite principled, and I don't believe he's collaborating with my government. As it's impossible to know I agree with the commenter who said that real privacy requires tools that don't require you to trust anyone.

    The US government can’t simply ban a website or program.

    The “government” doesn’t have to do it because the ADL, SPLC, and all the Silicon Valley SJW corporations are doing exactly that.

    And before we get into the tired old “censorship is only about what government does” debate, being censored and destroyed by non government forces (which the US “government” seems to endorse anyway) does not make it any less harmful. You also have to question just how different Google, ADL, Facebook are from the government, to me they are de facto already part of the government.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    These non-government forces also don't ban websites or programs, though that's changing as we saw with the Daily Stormer fiasco and the refusal to allow Gab on Google Play and the iPhone.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Thorfinnsson
    Many Russian commenters here, and not only Russian, seem to be under the impression that Telegram is permitted to exist by the NSA (and other alphabet soup agencies) because it is secretly cooperating with them.

    Telegram may very well be cooperating with the NSA, or perhaps the NSA has penetrated Telegram's servers. We can't know.

    But fundamentally the US government does not work like that. As totalitarian as it would like to be, it's still anchored in Anglo-American laws, traditions, and culture.

    The US government can't simply ban a website or program. A court can issue an injunction for various violations of law, see for instance the recent seizure of Backpages for allegedly aiding human trafficking and prostitution.

    All kinds of privacy tools the government doesn't like are freely available in America. VPNs, Telegram, encryption, burner phones, old-fashioned pay phones, etc.

    Generally the government gets its tentacles into organizations through indirect methods, as the commenter utu pointed out: http://www.unz.com/akarlin/telegramming-incompetence/#comment-2295935

    The US government also engages in signal boosting by investing in protocols and programs that serve its interests. Tor and Signal are good examples, and I immediately distrust any alleged dissident who promotes Signal in particular (Snowden and Weeve). Google was also nurtured by the US intelligence community.

    That said we will probably start seeing formal censorship in the 2020s in the USA. The need to combat "racism" (and, of course, enemies of the Empire) will overwhelm the Constitution.

    The good news is that while our enemies are evil and powerful, just like in Russia they are stupid. A good example is the recent Mueller raid on Trump's lawyer Cohen. The purpose of the raid was to uncover shit about the payoff to Stormy Daniels. If they were smart they'd be looking for evidence of violating laws in the 70s, 80s, and 90s in the course of real estate and casino deals.

    As for Pavel Durov his objections to the Russian government strike me as quite principled, and I don't believe he's collaborating with my government. As it's impossible to know I agree with the commenter who said that real privacy requires tools that don't require you to trust anyone.

    US passed a law that banned Kasperky software from government computers, they unleashed a campaign of smears against the company.

    FBI sent its agents to investigate the Russian restaurants in NYC: the owner and staff were asked if they support Putin…

    On the other hand, Durov and his Telegram have never encountered this kind of harassment, despite their rising prominence in the US, and possibility of Telegram being used for “Russian election meddling”, don’t you think it’s a little bit suspicious?

    Read More
    • Replies: @reiner Tor

    FBI sent its agents to investigate the Russian restaurants in NYC: the owner and staff were asked if they support Putin...
     
    I tried to look it up, but couldn’t find it. Do you have, sources, by any chance?
    , @Thorfinnsson
    Kaspersky and similar programs have access to the files on your PC and thus are a natural security concern. I am a happy Kaspersky customer incidentally.

    Telegram has no such access.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Neal
    Essentially he's saying that: "We don't want to be Amazon. We want to be in the business of making products and not in the business of selling/delivery products."

    What are "Payloads Manufacturing" exactly? Is that spy and commercial satellites? Rich space tourists?
    How is he intends to own this segment? He has no control over "Payloads Manufacturing". Does the US Gov. allows him to manufacture their spy satellites? How is he going to produce "rich space tourists"? Talk about wishful thinking.

    Ask Peter Theil about the idea of "Wanting to own 1% of a huge competitive market instead of 100% of a small growing market."

    Payloads is indeed largely satellites.

    “Rich space tourists” is the small and growing market here.

    There are about a quarter million ultra-high net worth individuals (net worth over $30m, comparable to a millionaire in the Gilded Age) globally. Some fraction of them would love a space vacation.

    Of course this market will be captured by the most economical rocket manufacturers. Initially the manufacturers will carry the passengers themselves, but eventually there will be space lines just like we have airlines now.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @FET
    http://tass.com/science/1000229

    Very interesting. Can someone with technical knowledge elaborate on this?

    Rogozin is correct–today.

    However the launch vehicle market is likely to grow ten-fold by mid-century.

    It will likely settle into a stable international oligopoly comparable to the widebody jet airliner and high-bypass turbofan engine markets.

    A major technical problem for Russia in competing in launch is its geography. The closer you are to the equator the more payload you can put into orbit.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mitleser

    A major technical problem for Russia in competing in launch is its geography. The closer you are to the equator the more payload you can put into orbit.
     
    Russians are interested in Sea Launch which provides a solution for a reason.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @FET
    http://tass.com/science/1000229

    Very interesting. Can someone with technical knowledge elaborate on this?

    Essentially he’s saying that: “We don’t want to be Amazon. We want to be in the business of making products and not in the business of selling/delivery products.”

    What are “Payloads Manufacturing” exactly? Is that spy and commercial satellites? Rich space tourists?
    How is he intends to own this segment? He has no control over “Payloads Manufacturing”. Does the US Gov. allows him to manufacture their spy satellites? How is he going to produce “rich space tourists”? Talk about wishful thinking.

    Ask Peter Theil about the idea of “Wanting to own 1% of a huge competitive market instead of 100% of a small growing market.”

    Read More
    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    Payloads is indeed largely satellites.

    "Rich space tourists" is the small and growing market here.

    There are about a quarter million ultra-high net worth individuals (net worth over $30m, comparable to a millionaire in the Gilded Age) globally. Some fraction of them would love a space vacation.

    Of course this market will be captured by the most economical rocket manufacturers. Initially the manufacturers will carry the passengers themselves, but eventually there will be space lines just like we have airlines now.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Many Russian commenters here, and not only Russian, seem to be under the impression that Telegram is permitted to exist by the NSA (and other alphabet soup agencies) because it is secretly cooperating with them.

    Telegram may very well be cooperating with the NSA, or perhaps the NSA has penetrated Telegram’s servers. We can’t know.

    But fundamentally the US government does not work like that. As totalitarian as it would like to be, it’s still anchored in Anglo-American laws, traditions, and culture.

    The US government can’t simply ban a website or program. A court can issue an injunction for various violations of law, see for instance the recent seizure of Backpages for allegedly aiding human trafficking and prostitution.

    All kinds of privacy tools the government doesn’t like are freely available in America. VPNs, Telegram, encryption, burner phones, old-fashioned pay phones, etc.

    Generally the government gets its tentacles into organizations through indirect methods, as the commenter utu pointed out: http://www.unz.com/akarlin/telegramming-incompetence/#comment-2295935

    The US government also engages in signal boosting by investing in protocols and programs that serve its interests. Tor and Signal are good examples, and I immediately distrust any alleged dissident who promotes Signal in particular (Snowden and Weeve). Google was also nurtured by the US intelligence community.

    That said we will probably start seeing formal censorship in the 2020s in the USA. The need to combat “racism” (and, of course, enemies of the Empire) will overwhelm the Constitution.

    The good news is that while our enemies are evil and powerful, just like in Russia they are stupid. A good example is the recent Mueller raid on Trump’s lawyer Cohen. The purpose of the raid was to uncover shit about the payoff to Stormy Daniels. If they were smart they’d be looking for evidence of violating laws in the 70s, 80s, and 90s in the course of real estate and casino deals.

    As for Pavel Durov his objections to the Russian government strike me as quite principled, and I don’t believe he’s collaborating with my government. As it’s impossible to know I agree with the commenter who said that real privacy requires tools that don’t require you to trust anyone.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
    US passed a law that banned Kasperky software from government computers, they unleashed a campaign of smears against the company.

    FBI sent its agents to investigate the Russian restaurants in NYC: the owner and staff were asked if they support Putin...

    On the other hand, Durov and his Telegram have never encountered this kind of harassment, despite their rising prominence in the US, and possibility of Telegram being used for "Russian election meddling", don't you think it's a little bit suspicious?
    , @neutral

    The US government can’t simply ban a website or program.
     
    The "government" doesn't have to do it because the ADL, SPLC, and all the Silicon Valley SJW corporations are doing exactly that.

    And before we get into the tired old "censorship is only about what government does" debate, being censored and destroyed by non government forces (which the US "government" seems to endorse anyway) does not make it any less harmful. You also have to question just how different Google, ADL, Facebook are from the government, to me they are de facto already part of the government.

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • This is an informative discussion. I wonder if Anatoly favors Telegram over ICQ because he’s a transhumanist futurist and sees Telegram as the bitcoin of chat programs, rather than as another part of the NSA’s empire (as some other commenters allege)?

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  • @Frederic Bastiat
    Before the strike it was leaked that 8 targets were in consideration including "two Syrian airfields, a research center and a chemical weapons facility". [1]

    After the strike it was announced by McKenzie that three targets were bombed [2]:
    * "77 missiles destroyed the Barzah Research and Development Center. It does not exist anymore. This will set the Syrian CW program by years."
    * "22 missiles hit the Him Shinshar Chemical Weapons Storage Site. All coalition forces were involved in kinetic strikes"
    * "7 missiles were employed against a third target"

    :
    * Against the Barzah Research and Development Center:
    * Here the targets in red [3]:
    https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-hmZTa7KK_oo/WtMVq9hSJmI/AAAAAAAAaSI/RVJqCPq1pv4f4ESJ5dT4v6AZbdnMWNvDQCLcBGAs/s1600/siria%2Bataque%2BEEUU%2Bbrit%25C3%25A1nico%2Bfranc%25C3%25A9s%2B2018-4-14%2Bzonas%2Bblancos%2B1a.jpg
    * A possible strike pattern according to the above numbers [3]:
    https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-FybtMd68Cfk/WtMWwMNB7TI/AAAAAAAAaSc/vfGo7Gm4vcwi-vXCcb4eBhXsBTC9EmLaQCLcBGAs/s1600/siria%2Bataque%2BEEUU%2Bbrit%25C3%25A1nico%2Bfranc%25C3%25A9s%2B2018-4-14%2Bzonas%2Bblancos%2B1b.jpg
    * The actual damage done by allegedly 34 tons of explosives (in succession) [see Twitter thread for more details]:
    https://twitter.com/vpkivimaki/status/985593196376977409
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=54&v=FhW2G-ynvBc


    * Against the Him Shinshar
    * Targets in red [3]:
    https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-RqYUlkj1yp8/WtMlKQSyjlI/AAAAAAAAaS0/-Cc8m3v2g7MAPlJY2WpxX3jzpLU59O0FQCLcBGAs/s1600/siria%2Bataque%2BEEUU%2Bbrit%25C3%25A1nico%2Bfranc%25C3%25A9s%2B2018-4-14%2Bzonas%2Bblancos%2B2a.jpg
    * Strike pattern according to the numbers [3]:
    https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-p1_G17je-LQ/WtMmeZwtVBI/AAAAAAAAaTY/dL2jlsnMHdQrTIVffpIeZitvkxxxz1pGgCLcBGAs/s1600/siria%2Bataque%2BEEUU%2Bbrit%25C3%25A1nico%2Bfranc%25C3%25A9s%2B2018-4-14%2Bzonas%2Bblancos%2B2%2Bimpactos.jpg
    * The actual damage
    https://twitter.com/DigitalGlobe/status/985319969742381056

    * The third target:
    * Target in red [3]: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-SB_1agXpYQ0/WtMuWCpsp_I/AAAAAAAAaTs/bBfJdoJSZ7UdHMU_Vqs4SLUMkjUedRE9ACLcBGAs/s1600/siria%2Bataque%2BEEUU%2Bbrit%25C3%25A1nico%2Bfranc%25C3%25A9s%2B2018-4-14%2Bzonas%2Bblancos%2B3a.jpg
    * Strike pattern [3]:
    https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-dLdL1wQ5NFY/WtMvRoje0wI/AAAAAAAAaUE/2xmC1HYiEyotaWYqvZAXLqBrwZ3z693xgCLcBGAs/s1600/siria%2Bataque%2BEEUU%2Bbrit%25C3%25A1nico%2Bfranc%25C3%25A9s%2B2018-4-14%2Bzonas%2Bblancos%2B3%2Bimpactos.jpg
    * Actual damage:
    https://static01.nyt.com/newsgraphics/2018/04/13/syria-us-strikes/a25a23b1089c393919bac5ad82970f5b0721b470/homs-before-after-bunker-600.jpg

    Consider:
    * that the facility most probably had no military meaning (chemical or otherwise), as is confirmed by an OPCW inspection in November 2017 [4] and by the fact that first responders did not wear any protective gear
    https://twitter.com/AlSuraEnglish/status/985094026167599104
    * that the supposed attack on meaningless buildings would have cost around $165 Million [5]
    * that the strike was expected to be an escalalation of the previous strike which targeted a military facility
    * that the damage is not consistent with what missiles are supposed to have done as FB has calculated [6]; 34 ton of explosions in close succession on the first target; see also [3] for this and this tomahawk demonstration video
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sa7ZX58Kk4
    * that there is video evidence of at least 1-2 missiles being shot down
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvwtuKY8D54
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vx5ez_KuV5c
    * The Russian claim of 71 shot down missiles is substantiated by the sources of an Western propaganda outlet, the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights[7]


    ----
    Sources:
    [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/12/trump-decision-on-syria-strikes-coming-fairly-soon.html
    [2] (Sources in the link) https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-04-14/highlights-pentagon-press-briefing-syria-airstrikes
    [3] (In Spanish) http://charly015.blogspot.de/2018/04/llego-el-ataque-contra-siria.html
    [4] https://southfront.org/us-led-strike-on-syria-most-of-missiles-spent-on-empty-target-opcw-report-says-no-chemical-weapons-there/
    [5] https://www.businessinsider.de/trump-us-syria-strike-how-many-missiles-were-fired-2017-2018-4?r=US&IR=T
    [6] http://www.unz.com/akarlin/ww3/#comment-2289684
    [7] http://www.syriahr.com/en/?p=89324

    This is very thorough and well-researched! Did you do it yourself?

    Good stuff!

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  • Meanwhile, perhaps the most frustrating thing of all – at least so far I’m concerned – is that it’s not Google or Facebook which are getting shut down, both of which are at this point mere adjuncts to the NSA and agents of a hostile foreign power.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/SargonofAkkad/comments/8dmmli/as_russia_nukes_half_the_web_to_ban_his_app_pavel/

    Over the weekened I plan to translate the full interview with RKN’s chief. It’s a hoot: he’s just so incredibly blunt, he openly states they’re about to bully Google and Amazon, and switch to Facebook by the end of the year.

    But what’s hilarious is the magnitude of the struggle. Thus far half of Amazon’s cloud assets, half of Google’s cloud assets and a chunk of Microsoft Azure have all been banned, leading to unexpected failure of things ranging from Volvo’s maintenance databases to Eve Online’s chat.

    Is the war against Telegram a prelude in the war against Google & Co.?

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  • http://tass.com/science/1000229

    Very interesting. Can someone with technical knowledge elaborate on this?

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    • Replies: @Neal
    Essentially he's saying that: "We don't want to be Amazon. We want to be in the business of making products and not in the business of selling/delivery products."

    What are "Payloads Manufacturing" exactly? Is that spy and commercial satellites? Rich space tourists?
    How is he intends to own this segment? He has no control over "Payloads Manufacturing". Does the US Gov. allows him to manufacture their spy satellites? How is he going to produce "rich space tourists"? Talk about wishful thinking.

    Ask Peter Theil about the idea of "Wanting to own 1% of a huge competitive market instead of 100% of a small growing market."
    , @Thorfinnsson
    Rogozin is correct--today.

    However the launch vehicle market is likely to grow ten-fold by mid-century.

    It will likely settle into a stable international oligopoly comparable to the widebody jet airliner and high-bypass turbofan engine markets.

    A major technical problem for Russia in competing in launch is its geography. The closer you are to the equator the more payload you can put into orbit.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @reiner Tor
    OT

    Although it's well known that the American version of events seems at least somewhat dubious, the Russian version is also at least somewhat questionable.

    Last year, the Americans officially claimed that 58 of the 59 Tomahawks hit their intended targets. The Russians & Syrians claimed that only 23 hit their targets. However, the Syrians later could only show pictures of the remains of exactly one (1) missile outside of Shayrat. Independent sources showed 44 targets hit, and it was claimed some targets were hit by more than one missile, a claim whose veracity was impossible for me to corroborate.

    Now we have this new missile strike. Are there any pictures or other corroboration of the missiles which were shot down? Or the missile sites where they went? Something? Anything?

    It'd be nice to have a clear picture of what went on there.

    Before the strike it was leaked that 8 targets were in consideration including “two Syrian airfields, a research center and a chemical weapons facility”. [1]

    After the strike it was announced by McKenzie that three targets were bombed [2]:
    * “77 missiles destroyed the Barzah Research and Development Center. It does not exist anymore. This will set the Syrian CW program by years.”
    * “22 missiles hit the Him Shinshar Chemical Weapons Storage Site. All coalition forces were involved in kinetic strikes”
    * “7 missiles were employed against a third target”

    :
    * Against the Barzah Research and Development Center:
    * Here the targets in red [3]:

    * A possible strike pattern according to the above numbers [3]:

    * The actual damage done by allegedly 34 tons of explosives (in succession) [see Twitter thread for more details]:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=54&v=FhW2G-ynvBc

    * Against the Him Shinshar
    * Targets in red [3]:

    * Strike pattern according to the numbers [3]:

    * The actual damage

    * The third target:
    * Target in red [3]:
    * Strike pattern [3]:

    * Actual damage:

    Consider:
    * that the facility most probably had no military meaning (chemical or otherwise), as is confirmed by an OPCW inspection in November 2017 [4] and by the fact that first responders did not wear any protective gear

    * that the supposed attack on meaningless buildings would have cost around $165 Million [5]
    * that the strike was expected to be an escalalation of the previous strike which targeted a military facility
    * that the damage is not consistent with what missiles are supposed to have done as FB has calculated [6]; 34 ton of explosions in close succession on the first target; see also [3] for this and this tomahawk demonstration video

    * that there is video evidence of at least 1-2 missiles being shot down

    * The Russian claim of 71 shot down missiles is substantiated by the sources of an Western propaganda outlet, the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights[7]

    —-
    Sources:
    [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/12/trump-decision-on-syria-strikes-coming-fairly-soon.html
    [2] (Sources in the link) https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-04-14/highlights-pentagon-press-briefing-syria-airstrikes
    [3] (In Spanish) http://charly015.blogspot.de/2018/04/llego-el-ataque-contra-siria.html
    [4] https://southfront.org/us-led-strike-on-syria-most-of-missiles-spent-on-empty-target-opcw-report-says-no-chemical-weapons-there/
    [5] https://www.businessinsider.de/trump-us-syria-strike-how-many-missiles-were-fired-2017-2018-4?r=US&IR=T
    [6] http://www.unz.com/akarlin/ww3/#comment-2289684
    [7] http://www.syriahr.com/en/?p=89324

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    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
    This is very thorough and well-researched! Did you do it yourself?

    Good stuff!
    , @reiner Tor
    My main concern is still the lack of pictures of the downed missiles (I guess they should already be found), and in this age of the smartphone I’d also expect more than a couple videos of seventy-something events (though perhaps it being at night is a good explanation).

    Not that a few videos are too meaningful to a layperson like me. I remember well when in 1991 we were shown those videos of the American Patriot air defense systems downing Scuds. (As it later turned out, nothing of the sort happened at all.) But the lack of videos is still unexpected.

    Speaking of Iraqi Scuds, the Kuwait War was also a good example of American dishonesty when reporting their glorious military adventures. Besides the lies about the Patriot air defense system, they also claimed on the first couple of days that they had already destroyed 80% of Iraqi military abilities within less than 24 hours. Later it turned out that it was far from being the truth. (The war was an easy enough victory, so few people remember it. The fact that they kept lying during an easy victory doesn’t bode well about how they’d tell the truth during a war which wouldn’t go so well... Though maybe all militaries would do the same.)

    Overall yours is a pretty good summary, and far from unconvincing either. Thanks for it! I have already used it elsewhere.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @neutral
    Its a bit like that saying: "if your votes mattered, the government would ban it", if Tor was truly a way to prevent the US regime from spying on you they would have stopped it already.

    Then you will come across stories like this: https://www.dailydot.com/layer8/government-contractor-tor-malware/

    Now imagine for a moment how much the government is doing that is not being made public.

    I’m not an expert, but doesn’t the malware get onto your computer? As I wrote, they can crack you anyway, just not Tor.

    By the way your ISP can see that you’re using Tor (just not what exactly you’re doing), I’d be surprised if the NSA wouldn’t automatically see it. Then they will try to crack your computer, and chances are, they will be able to do that.

    Anyway, Tor itself is not easy to crack (the malware mentioned in the article used flash, which is not recommended by the Tor developers), and any security holes could easily be spotted by the community (it’s open source), but they crack dumb users (who are using flash on Tor), and most (all?) users are dumb.

    The US national interest in developing it is the hope that it will be more corrosive to other regimes than their own. Either because some enemy governments have less resources and/or programming talent to crack it (Iran?) or because their governments are more vulnerable to being color revolutioned.

    The same applies to Telegram. Its users can be cracked elsewhere. The US regime probably perceives that it can crack its users anyway (highly likely, the vast majority of them use Windows or MacOS etc.), so it’s in its interest to promote tools which are more difficult for others to crack, giving it an edge.

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  • No, of course it is Telegram that is getting blocked – the strongest Russian IT brand

    Telegram is not a Russian IT brand.

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  • @reiner Tor
    Is it not both decentralized and open source? So even theoretically almost impossible to crack.

    Its a bit like that saying: “if your votes mattered, the government would ban it”, if Tor was truly a way to prevent the US regime from spying on you they would have stopped it already.

    Then you will come across stories like this: https://www.dailydot.com/layer8/government-contractor-tor-malware/

    Now imagine for a moment how much the government is doing that is not being made public.

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    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    I’m not an expert, but doesn’t the malware get onto your computer? As I wrote, they can crack you anyway, just not Tor.

    By the way your ISP can see that you’re using Tor (just not what exactly you’re doing), I’d be surprised if the NSA wouldn’t automatically see it. Then they will try to crack your computer, and chances are, they will be able to do that.

    Anyway, Tor itself is not easy to crack (the malware mentioned in the article used flash, which is not recommended by the Tor developers), and any security holes could easily be spotted by the community (it’s open source), but they crack dumb users (who are using flash on Tor), and most (all?) users are dumb.

    The US national interest in developing it is the hope that it will be more corrosive to other regimes than their own. Either because some enemy governments have less resources and/or programming talent to crack it (Iran?) or because their governments are more vulnerable to being color revolutioned.

    The same applies to Telegram. Its users can be cracked elsewhere. The US regime probably perceives that it can crack its users anyway (highly likely, the vast majority of them use Windows or MacOS etc.), so it’s in its interest to promote tools which are more difficult for others to crack, giving it an edge.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @neutral
    Tor is safe for the US government because they created it and thus know how to to bypass the security, its not because they can hack your computer directly. This also means Tor is utterly unsafe unless you consider the US regime harmless...

    Is it not both decentralized and open source? So even theoretically almost impossible to crack.

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    • Replies: @neutral
    Its a bit like that saying: "if your votes mattered, the government would ban it", if Tor was truly a way to prevent the US regime from spying on you they would have stopped it already.

    Then you will come across stories like this: https://www.dailydot.com/layer8/government-contractor-tor-malware/

    Now imagine for a moment how much the government is doing that is not being made public.

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @reiner Tor
    So? He lives abroad, and uses another passport. Apparently none of his employees are Russian. He's also a known enemy of the Kremlin. Again, it needs no special explanation why he wasn't investigated, unlike Kaspersky, which is well-known to be friendly to Putin and the Kremlin.

    The US promotes Tor, which - as The Big Red Scary pointed out - is completely safe irrespective of its owners, because it figures that it's a bigger problem to its enemies (Iran, China, Russia, Venezuela, etc.) than to the US. I think the US surveillance state could just hack your computer and see what you're using, Tor is only as safe as your computer itself. Is there a reason to think Telegram somehow protects the devices themselves? If not, why would US security services be less OK with Telegram than with Tor?

    Tor is safe for the US government because they created it and thus know how to to bypass the security, its not because they can hack your computer directly. This also means Tor is utterly unsafe unless you consider the US regime harmless…

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    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    Is it not both decentralized and open source? So even theoretically almost impossible to crack.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Felix Keverich
    Who cares, he will remain a Russian citizen either way. It's not important. But your confusion shows just how easy it is for a foreigner to get things wrong about Russia and Russians, which brings me back to my original point:

    Durov and his Telegram are NOT being investigated over “Russian interference”. This is how we know they cooperate with NSA/FBI.
     
    Telegram has a lot more users in US than in Russia, and I very much doubt US "national security community" would be ok with that, if they weren't 100% certain that Durov is on their side.

    So? He lives abroad, and uses another passport. Apparently none of his employees are Russian. He’s also a known enemy of the Kremlin. Again, it needs no special explanation why he wasn’t investigated, unlike Kaspersky, which is well-known to be friendly to Putin and the Kremlin.

    The US promotes Tor, which – as The Big Red Scary pointed out – is completely safe irrespective of its owners, because it figures that it’s a bigger problem to its enemies (Iran, China, Russia, Venezuela, etc.) than to the US. I think the US surveillance state could just hack your computer and see what you’re using, Tor is only as safe as your computer itself. Is there a reason to think Telegram somehow protects the devices themselves? If not, why would US security services be less OK with Telegram than with Tor?

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    • Replies: @neutral
    Tor is safe for the US government because they created it and thus know how to to bypass the security, its not because they can hack your computer directly. This also means Tor is utterly unsafe unless you consider the US regime harmless...
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @reiner Tor
    Maybe he still has it, but Wikipedia says he travels on his other citizenship, which he acquired for $250,000 in 2014. So once his passport expires, will he just walk into a Russian consulate to renew it? Will he, in fact, renew it?

    Who cares, he will remain a Russian citizen either way. It’s not important. But your confusion shows just how easy it is for a foreigner to get things wrong about Russia and Russians, which brings me back to my original point:

    Durov and his Telegram are NOT being investigated over “Russian interference”. This is how we know they cooperate with NSA/FBI.

    Telegram has a lot more users in US than in Russia, and I very much doubt US “national security community” would be ok with that, if they weren’t 100% certain that Durov is on their side.

    Read More
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    So? He lives abroad, and uses another passport. Apparently none of his employees are Russian. He's also a known enemy of the Kremlin. Again, it needs no special explanation why he wasn't investigated, unlike Kaspersky, which is well-known to be friendly to Putin and the Kremlin.

    The US promotes Tor, which - as The Big Red Scary pointed out - is completely safe irrespective of its owners, because it figures that it's a bigger problem to its enemies (Iran, China, Russia, Venezuela, etc.) than to the US. I think the US surveillance state could just hack your computer and see what you're using, Tor is only as safe as your computer itself. Is there a reason to think Telegram somehow protects the devices themselves? If not, why would US security services be less OK with Telegram than with Tor?
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • OT

    Although it’s well known that the American version of events seems at least somewhat dubious, the Russian version is also at least somewhat questionable.

    Last year, the Americans officially claimed that 58 of the 59 Tomahawks hit their intended targets. The Russians & Syrians claimed that only 23 hit their targets. However, the Syrians later could only show pictures of the remains of exactly one (1) missile outside of Shayrat. Independent sources showed 44 targets hit, and it was claimed some targets were hit by more than one missile, a claim whose veracity was impossible for me to corroborate.

    Now we have this new missile strike. Are there any pictures or other corroboration of the missiles which were shot down? Or the missile sites where they went? Something? Anything?

    It’d be nice to have a clear picture of what went on there.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Frederic Bastiat
    Before the strike it was leaked that 8 targets were in consideration including "two Syrian airfields, a research center and a chemical weapons facility". [1]

    After the strike it was announced by McKenzie that three targets were bombed [2]:
    * "77 missiles destroyed the Barzah Research and Development Center. It does not exist anymore. This will set the Syrian CW program by years."
    * "22 missiles hit the Him Shinshar Chemical Weapons Storage Site. All coalition forces were involved in kinetic strikes"
    * "7 missiles were employed against a third target"

    :
    * Against the Barzah Research and Development Center:
    * Here the targets in red [3]:
    https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-hmZTa7KK_oo/WtMVq9hSJmI/AAAAAAAAaSI/RVJqCPq1pv4f4ESJ5dT4v6AZbdnMWNvDQCLcBGAs/s1600/siria%2Bataque%2BEEUU%2Bbrit%25C3%25A1nico%2Bfranc%25C3%25A9s%2B2018-4-14%2Bzonas%2Bblancos%2B1a.jpg
    * A possible strike pattern according to the above numbers [3]:
    https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-FybtMd68Cfk/WtMWwMNB7TI/AAAAAAAAaSc/vfGo7Gm4vcwi-vXCcb4eBhXsBTC9EmLaQCLcBGAs/s1600/siria%2Bataque%2BEEUU%2Bbrit%25C3%25A1nico%2Bfranc%25C3%25A9s%2B2018-4-14%2Bzonas%2Bblancos%2B1b.jpg
    * The actual damage done by allegedly 34 tons of explosives (in succession) [see Twitter thread for more details]:
    https://twitter.com/vpkivimaki/status/985593196376977409
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=54&v=FhW2G-ynvBc


    * Against the Him Shinshar
    * Targets in red [3]:
    https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-RqYUlkj1yp8/WtMlKQSyjlI/AAAAAAAAaS0/-Cc8m3v2g7MAPlJY2WpxX3jzpLU59O0FQCLcBGAs/s1600/siria%2Bataque%2BEEUU%2Bbrit%25C3%25A1nico%2Bfranc%25C3%25A9s%2B2018-4-14%2Bzonas%2Bblancos%2B2a.jpg
    * Strike pattern according to the numbers [3]:
    https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-p1_G17je-LQ/WtMmeZwtVBI/AAAAAAAAaTY/dL2jlsnMHdQrTIVffpIeZitvkxxxz1pGgCLcBGAs/s1600/siria%2Bataque%2BEEUU%2Bbrit%25C3%25A1nico%2Bfranc%25C3%25A9s%2B2018-4-14%2Bzonas%2Bblancos%2B2%2Bimpactos.jpg
    * The actual damage
    https://twitter.com/DigitalGlobe/status/985319969742381056

    * The third target:
    * Target in red [3]: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-SB_1agXpYQ0/WtMuWCpsp_I/AAAAAAAAaTs/bBfJdoJSZ7UdHMU_Vqs4SLUMkjUedRE9ACLcBGAs/s1600/siria%2Bataque%2BEEUU%2Bbrit%25C3%25A1nico%2Bfranc%25C3%25A9s%2B2018-4-14%2Bzonas%2Bblancos%2B3a.jpg
    * Strike pattern [3]:
    https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-dLdL1wQ5NFY/WtMvRoje0wI/AAAAAAAAaUE/2xmC1HYiEyotaWYqvZAXLqBrwZ3z693xgCLcBGAs/s1600/siria%2Bataque%2BEEUU%2Bbrit%25C3%25A1nico%2Bfranc%25C3%25A9s%2B2018-4-14%2Bzonas%2Bblancos%2B3%2Bimpactos.jpg
    * Actual damage:
    https://static01.nyt.com/newsgraphics/2018/04/13/syria-us-strikes/a25a23b1089c393919bac5ad82970f5b0721b470/homs-before-after-bunker-600.jpg

    Consider:
    * that the facility most probably had no military meaning (chemical or otherwise), as is confirmed by an OPCW inspection in November 2017 [4] and by the fact that first responders did not wear any protective gear
    https://twitter.com/AlSuraEnglish/status/985094026167599104
    * that the supposed attack on meaningless buildings would have cost around $165 Million [5]
    * that the strike was expected to be an escalalation of the previous strike which targeted a military facility
    * that the damage is not consistent with what missiles are supposed to have done as FB has calculated [6]; 34 ton of explosions in close succession on the first target; see also [3] for this and this tomahawk demonstration video
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sa7ZX58Kk4
    * that there is video evidence of at least 1-2 missiles being shot down
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvwtuKY8D54
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vx5ez_KuV5c
    * The Russian claim of 71 shot down missiles is substantiated by the sources of an Western propaganda outlet, the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights[7]


    ----
    Sources:
    [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/12/trump-decision-on-syria-strikes-coming-fairly-soon.html
    [2] (Sources in the link) https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-04-14/highlights-pentagon-press-briefing-syria-airstrikes
    [3] (In Spanish) http://charly015.blogspot.de/2018/04/llego-el-ataque-contra-siria.html
    [4] https://southfront.org/us-led-strike-on-syria-most-of-missiles-spent-on-empty-target-opcw-report-says-no-chemical-weapons-there/
    [5] https://www.businessinsider.de/trump-us-syria-strike-how-many-missiles-were-fired-2017-2018-4?r=US&IR=T
    [6] http://www.unz.com/akarlin/ww3/#comment-2289684
    [7] http://www.syriahr.com/en/?p=89324
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Felix Keverich

    Durov doesn’t even have a Russian passport.
     
    Really? His wikipedia page says otherwise...

    He sure got lots of people confused. :/

    Maybe he still has it, but Wikipedia says he travels on his other citizenship, which he acquired for $250,000 in 2014. So once his passport expires, will he just walk into a Russian consulate to renew it? Will he, in fact, renew it?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
    Who cares, he will remain a Russian citizen either way. It's not important. But your confusion shows just how easy it is for a foreigner to get things wrong about Russia and Russians, which brings me back to my original point:

    Durov and his Telegram are NOT being investigated over “Russian interference”. This is how we know they cooperate with NSA/FBI.
     
    Telegram has a lot more users in US than in Russia, and I very much doubt US "national security community" would be ok with that, if they weren't 100% certain that Durov is on their side.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @reiner Tor

    Only truly free software, which can be compiled and distributed by everyone, has a chance of being established as trustworthy. So Signal and Telegram are both out.
     
    I'd say trustworthy systems are trustworthy regardless of owner. Other systems can be divided into surely NSA (FSB, etc.) controlled systems and possibly NSA (etc.) controlled ones. I fail to see why attack the latter without attacking the former. There should at least be some incentive not to cooperate with the NSA, or at a minimum to keep it confidential.

    I fail to see why attack the latter without attacking the former.

    Sure. However, I don’t see the point of directly attacking either without providing a real alternative. This is like spending all your resources on antibiotics and not having enough for food. You’ll end up immune-compromised anyway and die from some other infection against which your antibiotics are useless.

    I think the fact is that most people don’t really care about their privacy. GPG is fairly easy to use, but people don’t use it. Revealed preference. It could be easier to use, and better integrated with other services. But maybe it’s like the brushing of teeth. You need a major public hygiene campaign for years and years to convince people to take care of themselves.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @reiner Tor

    For the officials in US government to use our arguments would require deep understanding of Russia
     
    Durov doesn't even have a Russian passport. It needs no deep understanding at all.

    Durov doesn’t even have a Russian passport.

    Really? His wikipedia page says otherwise…

    He sure got lots of people confused. :/

    Read More
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    Maybe he still has it, but Wikipedia says he travels on his other citizenship, which he acquired for $250,000 in 2014. So once his passport expires, will he just walk into a Russian consulate to renew it? Will he, in fact, renew it?
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Felix Keverich

    Maybe because it’s not based in Russia, and is a well-known opponent of Putin and his government?

    The same arguments you guys were using.
     
    Unlikely. For the officials in US government to use our arguments would require deep understanding of Russia that they simply do not posess.


    Why go after a potential NSA tool instead of a surely NSA tool?
     
    The owners of Facebook and Google do not the same personal history with Russia that Durov has. Go read up on how he lost control of VK.com and you will understand why Russian government may see him as a threat.

    For the officials in US government to use our arguments would require deep understanding of Russia

    Durov doesn’t even have a Russian passport. It needs no deep understanding at all.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Felix Keverich

    Durov doesn’t even have a Russian passport.
     
    Really? His wikipedia page says otherwise...

    He sure got lots of people confused. :/
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @The Big Red Scary
    There are good reasons to criticize the Russian government's handling of the Telegram situation (better to invest into real alternatives than to feed the narcissistic fire of posers like Durov). But for those who are interested in these kinds of issues, it would be a good idea to talk to some knowledgeable people and not to take Durov or Yasha Levine too seriously.

    There are some common misconceptions being repeated in these threads over and over again, the most pernicious of which is that some players are trustworthy and others are untrustworthy because of the personalities or source of funding behind them. Only truly free software, which can be compiled and distributed by everyone, has a chance of being established as trustworthy. So Signal and Telegram are both out. Tor is still in. (Signal and Telegram are open source, but they want you to use their servers, and you have no way of knowing what they've actually compiled. Tor is not only open source, but freely distributed.)

    As for the untrustworthy services, like Signal, Telegram, Facebook and Google-- they can still be used for secure communication if you encrypt your message with PGP (free software) and then cut and paste. The trustworthiness of the messenger is and should be irrelevant.

    (By the way, the IT department at my institution in Moscow is incompetent, and they leave me no choice but to use Tor in order to communicate between my desktop in my office and my laptop, both of which are owned by my institution.)

    Only truly free software, which can be compiled and distributed by everyone, has a chance of being established as trustworthy. So Signal and Telegram are both out.

    I’d say trustworthy systems are trustworthy regardless of owner. Other systems can be divided into surely NSA (FSB, etc.) controlled systems and possibly NSA (etc.) controlled ones. I fail to see why attack the latter without attacking the former. There should at least be some incentive not to cooperate with the NSA, or at a minimum to keep it confidential.

    Read More
    • Replies: @The Big Red Scary

    I fail to see why attack the latter without attacking the former.
     
    Sure. However, I don't see the point of directly attacking either without providing a real alternative. This is like spending all your resources on antibiotics and not having enough for food. You'll end up immune-compromised anyway and die from some other infection against which your antibiotics are useless.

    I think the fact is that most people don't really care about their privacy. GPG is fairly easy to use, but people don't use it. Revealed preference. It could be easier to use, and better integrated with other services. But maybe it's like the brushing of teeth. You need a major public hygiene campaign for years and years to convince people to take care of themselves.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Anatoly Karlin
    https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/team_chat.png

    Wasn’t the IRC a thing in the second half of the nineties? I’m not sure when it went out, though, but maybe earlier than 2004.

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    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Anatoly Karlin
    https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/team_chat.png

    Yeah, I know that one guy. I can you introduce you to him. At least unlike Durov and Levine, he’s not a poser.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Felix Keverich

    the FBI is different. The ones who questioned me were competent. They spoke multiple languages. They had done their research, and knew exactly what questions to ask. They were of a high caliber. And I understood that America has so many resources dedicated to security that it is downright scary. Law enforcement in America is so much more efficient.”
     
    But, then the head of the FBI, investigating Russia, couldn't tell what Gazprom is...Durov is just a classic case of "низкопоклонство перед Западом", so typical among the Russian liberals - I bet he shared his keys with the FBI years ago.

    Telegram is NOT a Russian brand, and the company is not based in Russia. If it was, it could have been expropriated by a Kremlin-friendly oligarch the way VK was. 93% of TG's user base is outside of Russia.

    Bershidsky believes that the Russian campaign against Telegram will eventually succeed as Google and Amazon will be compelled to dump Telegram to preserve their Russian business. I'm inclined to agree.

    низкопоклонство перед Западом

    Durov’s a poser. Better to just ignore him, since he obviously enjoys the attention so much. The real issue is to build alternatives to Signal and Telegram that are both credible and popular. If the Kremlin had the necessary foresight and principle, they could easily and cheaply be the patrons for such a project. Just endow a foundation with a small budget to renovate a vagonzavod as a tech coop and let the nerds sort out the rest.

    Not holding my breath.

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    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Dmitry
    Runet is becoming some kind of parody of late 1990s American internet. As if buying livejournal and making it into the Russian company was not funny enough. Now ICQ is getting trending. I'm just waiting now for when Myspace becomes the official venue for government communication.

    Read More
    • Replies: @The Big Red Scary
    Yeah, I know that one guy. I can you introduce you to him. At least unlike Durov and Levine, he's not a poser.
    , @reiner Tor
    Wasn't the IRC a thing in the second half of the nineties? I'm not sure when it went out, though, but maybe earlier than 2004.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • There are good reasons to criticize the Russian government’s handling of the Telegram situation (better to invest into real alternatives than to feed the narcissistic fire of posers like Durov). But for those who are interested in these kinds of issues, it would be a good idea to talk to some knowledgeable people and not to take Durov or Yasha Levine too seriously.

    There are some common misconceptions being repeated in these threads over and over again, the most pernicious of which is that some players are trustworthy and others are untrustworthy because of the personalities or source of funding behind them. Only truly free software, which can be compiled and distributed by everyone, has a chance of being established as trustworthy. So Signal and Telegram are both out. Tor is still in. (Signal and Telegram are open source, but they want you to use their servers, and you have no way of knowing what they’ve actually compiled. Tor is not only open source, but freely distributed.)

    As for the untrustworthy services, like Signal, Telegram, Facebook and Google– they can still be used for secure communication if you encrypt your message with PGP (free software) and then cut and paste. The trustworthiness of the messenger is and should be irrelevant.

    (By the way, the IT department at my institution in Moscow is incompetent, and they leave me no choice but to use Tor in order to communicate between my desktop in my office and my laptop, both of which are owned by my institution.)

    Read More
    • Replies: @reiner Tor

    Only truly free software, which can be compiled and distributed by everyone, has a chance of being established as trustworthy. So Signal and Telegram are both out.
     
    I'd say trustworthy systems are trustworthy regardless of owner. Other systems can be divided into surely NSA (FSB, etc.) controlled systems and possibly NSA (etc.) controlled ones. I fail to see why attack the latter without attacking the former. There should at least be some incentive not to cooperate with the NSA, or at a minimum to keep it confidential.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @reiner Tor
    Maybe because it’s not based in Russia, and is a well-known opponent of Putin and his government?

    The same arguments you guys were using.

    Anyway, it might cooperate with the CIA and the FBI, but you know that for sure about Facebook and Google. Why go after a potential NSA tool instead of a surely NSA tool?

    Maybe because it’s not based in Russia, and is a well-known opponent of Putin and his government?

    The same arguments you guys were using.

    Unlikely. For the officials in US government to use our arguments would require deep understanding of Russia that they simply do not posess.

    Why go after a potential NSA tool instead of a surely NSA tool?

    The owners of Facebook and Google do not the same personal history with Russia that Durov has. Go read up on how he lost control of VK.com and you will understand why Russian government may see him as a threat.

    Read More
    • Replies: @reiner Tor

    For the officials in US government to use our arguments would require deep understanding of Russia
     
    Durov doesn't even have a Russian passport. It needs no deep understanding at all.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Felix Keverich
    Durov and his Telegram are NOT being investigated over "Russian interference". This is how we know they cooperate with NSA/FBI. Contrast it with how Kaspersky has been treated.

    Maybe because it’s not based in Russia, and is a well-known opponent of Putin and his government?

    The same arguments you guys were using.

    Anyway, it might cooperate with the CIA and the FBI, but you know that for sure about Facebook and Google. Why go after a potential NSA tool instead of a surely NSA tool?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Felix Keverich

    Maybe because it’s not based in Russia, and is a well-known opponent of Putin and his government?

    The same arguments you guys were using.
     
    Unlikely. For the officials in US government to use our arguments would require deep understanding of Russia that they simply do not posess.


    Why go after a potential NSA tool instead of a surely NSA tool?
     
    The owners of Facebook and Google do not the same personal history with Russia that Durov has. Go read up on how he lost control of VK.com and you will understand why Russian government may see him as a threat.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @reiner Tor
    But how American is it? It’s encrypted, so at least the Americans can’t monitor it either.

    Durov and his Telegram are NOT being investigated over “Russian interference”. This is how we know they cooperate with NSA/FBI. Contrast it with how Kaspersky has been treated.

    Read More
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    Maybe because it’s not based in Russia, and is a well-known opponent of Putin and his government?

    The same arguments you guys were using.

    Anyway, it might cooperate with the CIA and the FBI, but you know that for sure about Facebook and Google. Why go after a potential NSA tool instead of a surely NSA tool?
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Mitleser

    In a sense, the Kremlin’s behavior is much sicker than that of China or Iran, which despite their lack of regard for free speech are at least safeguarding their elites from American surveillance and protecting their culture from Western cultural subversion.
     
    You forgot monitoring and controlling their population, the same as the Kremlin wants to do.
    Zhongnanhai likes its local Durovs as much as the Kremlin likes Russian rebels.

    No, of course it is Telegram that is getting blocked – the strongest Russian IT brand after Yandex and Kaspersky
     
    https://twitter.com/durov/status/951243462912995328

    Aside from Durov himself, there is not much Russian in Telegram.

    But how American is it? It’s encrypted, so at least the Americans can’t monitor it either.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
    Durov and his Telegram are NOT being investigated over "Russian interference". This is how we know they cooperate with NSA/FBI. Contrast it with how Kaspersky has been treated.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • In a sense, the Kremlin’s behavior is much sicker than that of China or Iran, which despite their lack of regard for free speech are at least safeguarding their elites from American surveillance and protecting their culture from Western cultural subversion.

    You forgot monitoring and controlling their population, the same as the Kremlin wants to do.
    Zhongnanhai likes its local Durovs as much as the Kremlin likes Russian rebels.

    No, of course it is Telegram that is getting blocked – the strongest Russian IT brand after Yandex and Kaspersky

    Aside from Durov himself, there is not much Russian in Telegram.

    Read More
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    But how American is it? It’s encrypted, so at least the Americans can’t monitor it either.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Spisarevski
    Durov is so Russian that he posted this video on his VK page back in 2014

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnZnvFIJKB8

    The video ends with a "Glory to Ukraine!" shout. How very Russian of him.

    Anatoly is right though, if the kremlins want to ban encrypted communication tools that can be used by terrorists, they should have started with Tor and Signal which are indeed CIA tools (Tor is obvious as it is funded by the US government, and Signal's biggest promoter is another CIA tool who goes by the name of Edward Snowden).

    No, first they should ban Facebook and Google.

    Is Yandex any good? I once had a Ukrainian girlfriend with a Yandex email address. It should be the equivalent of gmail, an app should be created which uploads all contents (previous emails etc.) from gmail and then uploads it to a Yandex account, and then gmail should be banned, but the ban should be announced in a timely manner. So users would have like two months to change to Yandex, and they would be able to do that in a user-friendly way.

    Otherwise I found it previously cool that people like holocaust deniers or Snowden etc. could find refuge in Russia. Though promoting a Russian tool instead of Telegram for government employees would make sense. But otherwise I don’t think it makes sense to reduce freedom, because it’s usually seen uncool, and there’s no big advantage to it.

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    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Durov is so Russian that he posted this video on his VK page back in 2014

    The video ends with a “Glory to Ukraine!” shout. How very Russian of him.

    Anatoly is right though, if the kremlins want to ban encrypted communication tools that can be used by terrorists, they should have started with Tor and Signal which are indeed CIA tools (Tor is obvious as it is funded by the US government, and Signal’s biggest promoter is another CIA tool who goes by the name of Edward Snowden).

    Read More
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    No, first they should ban Facebook and Google.

    Is Yandex any good? I once had a Ukrainian girlfriend with a Yandex email address. It should be the equivalent of gmail, an app should be created which uploads all contents (previous emails etc.) from gmail and then uploads it to a Yandex account, and then gmail should be banned, but the ban should be announced in a timely manner. So users would have like two months to change to Yandex, and they would be able to do that in a user-friendly way.

    Otherwise I found it previously cool that people like holocaust deniers or Snowden etc. could find refuge in Russia. Though promoting a Russian tool instead of Telegram for government employees would make sense. But otherwise I don't think it makes sense to reduce freedom, because it's usually seen uncool, and there's no big advantage to it.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Dmitry
    Hipsters could probably consider as forcing everyone to change to ICQ as cool in some perverted way.

    It's like giving away your Nintendo Switch, to play on Gameboy and Sega Mega Drive.

    >Nintendo Switch

    What is that?

    >Gameboy

    My childhood. ;_;

    Incidentally, I have used ICQ, but never Durov’s Telegram.

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  • @reiner Tor
    I don’t think that sarcastic remarks need to be explained that much in detail. Yes, I used him as a shorthand for the Russian government.

    But since you brought up Putin’s personal responsibility, let me assert here that

    - Putin has led the country for nearly two decades; all people on all levels of government are either appointed by him, or appointed by his appointees, or the appointees of his appointees, and so on.
    - This was a major screwup. Even if some lower level officials decided the case, he should by now have been informed about it.
    - Not only was it a major screwup, but it was probably decided by relatively high level officials, probably just a couple levels below him.

    So at the very minimum he’s responsible for incompetent people being in positions and for not punishing them.

    This was a major screwup.

    I do not necessarily think of it this way. Pavel Durov is a wealthy and technologically-savvy man, he is arguably smarter than anyone who works at Roskomnadzor, and he is determined to use his vast resources to fight the block. Durov has a long-standing grudge against the Russian regime, this is his way of hitting back. He hates Russia and wants it to look stupid.

    Naturally, erasing Durov from the Russian internet will be challenging and there may be futher embarrassments along the way, but in the end, I think Russian government will get it done. And they will learn from it.

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  • @inertial
    I am not defending anything, I just don't think Putin personally pulls every single lever in Russia. Or are you simply using "Putin" as the shorthand for the Russian government, the way they do it in the Western media? In this case, carry on.

    I don’t think that sarcastic remarks need to be explained that much in detail. Yes, I used him as a shorthand for the Russian government.

    But since you brought up Putin’s personal responsibility, let me assert here that

    - Putin has led the country for nearly two decades; all people on all levels of government are either appointed by him, or appointed by his appointees, or the appointees of his appointees, and so on.
    - This was a major screwup. Even if some lower level officials decided the case, he should by now have been informed about it.
    - Not only was it a major screwup, but it was probably decided by relatively high level officials, probably just a couple levels below him.

    So at the very minimum he’s responsible for incompetent people being in positions and for not punishing them.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Felix Keverich

    This was a major screwup.
     
    I do not necessarily think of it this way. Pavel Durov is a wealthy and technologically-savvy man, he is arguably smarter than anyone who works at Roskomnadzor, and he is determined to use his vast resources to fight the block. Durov has a long-standing grudge against the Russian regime, this is his way of hitting back. He hates Russia and wants it to look stupid.

    Naturally, erasing Durov from the Russian internet will be challenging and there may be futher embarrassments along the way, but in the end, I think Russian government will get it done. And they will learn from it.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • There’s no way that Durov’s activities could be tolerated. Could someone like him operate in China? Telegram must be removed from the Russian internet, and will be. It would be impressive if that happened quickly and efficiently, but more important that it happens by hook or by crook.

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  • @reiner Tor
    I didn’t say he did.

    I just summarized what Gerard2 wrote. He found this example of bumbling incompetence “impressive.”

    You now resorted to the second line of defense: the shit might stink and is inedible, but it was not Putin personally who shat on the table in front of all of us; it was merely one of his men. Well, Putin is responsible for what his subordinates do.

    I am not defending anything, I just don’t think Putin personally pulls every single lever in Russia. Or are you simply using “Putin” as the shorthand for the Russian government, the way they do it in the Western media? In this case, carry on.

    Read More
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    I don’t think that sarcastic remarks need to be explained that much in detail. Yes, I used him as a shorthand for the Russian government.

    But since you brought up Putin’s personal responsibility, let me assert here that

    - Putin has led the country for nearly two decades; all people on all levels of government are either appointed by him, or appointed by his appointees, or the appointees of his appointees, and so on.
    - This was a major screwup. Even if some lower level officials decided the case, he should by now have been informed about it.
    - Not only was it a major screwup, but it was probably decided by relatively high level officials, probably just a couple levels below him.

    So at the very minimum he’s responsible for incompetent people being in positions and for not punishing them.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Felix Keverich

    the FBI is different. The ones who questioned me were competent. They spoke multiple languages. They had done their research, and knew exactly what questions to ask. They were of a high caliber. And I understood that America has so many resources dedicated to security that it is downright scary. Law enforcement in America is so much more efficient.”
     
    But, then the head of the FBI, investigating Russia, couldn't tell what Gazprom is...Durov is just a classic case of "низкопоклонство перед Западом", so typical among the Russian liberals - I bet he shared his keys with the FBI years ago.

    Telegram is NOT a Russian brand, and the company is not based in Russia. If it was, it could have been expropriated by a Kremlin-friendly oligarch the way VK was. 93% of TG's user base is outside of Russia.

    Bershidsky believes that the Russian campaign against Telegram will eventually succeed as Google and Amazon will be compelled to dump Telegram to preserve their Russian business. I'm inclined to agree.

    Facebook has to move its servers to Russia and will be checked later in the year.

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  • I do sense there could one day be an eventual VPN ban, in a few years. Not now – but this kind of move is preparing the legal groundwork, even as a sideproduct.

    https://ria.ru/society/20180413/1518596583.html

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    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • the FBI is different. The ones who questioned me were competent. They spoke multiple languages. They had done their research, and knew exactly what questions to ask. They were of a high caliber. And I understood that America has so many resources dedicated to security that it is downright scary. Law enforcement in America is so much more efficient.”

    But, then the head of the FBI, investigating Russia, couldn’t tell what Gazprom is…Durov is just a classic case of “низкопоклонство перед Западом”, so typical among the Russian liberals – I bet he shared his keys with the FBI years ago.

    Telegram is NOT a Russian brand, and the company is not based in Russia. If it was, it could have been expropriated by a Kremlin-friendly oligarch the way VK was. 93% of TG’s user base is outside of Russia.

    Bershidsky believes that the Russian campaign against Telegram will eventually succeed as Google and Amazon will be compelled to dump Telegram to preserve their Russian business. I’m inclined to agree.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dmitry
    Facebook has to move its servers to Russia and will be checked later in the year.
    , @The Big Red Scary
    низкопоклонство перед Западом

    Durov's a poser. Better to just ignore him, since he obviously enjoys the attention so much. The real issue is to build alternatives to Signal and Telegram that are both credible and popular. If the Kremlin had the necessary foresight and principle, they could easily and cheaply be the patrons for such a project. Just endow a foundation with a small budget to renovate a vagonzavod as a tech coop and let the nerds sort out the rest.

    Not holding my breath.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Jayce
    Honestly had no idea ICQ even still existed until I read this article. Too bad the Russians couldn't save AIM before it was too late.

    Lol -

    Although has been owned for years now by Mail.ru as said above- they advertise it like a flagship product along with the classmates shit

    Since 2014, controlling shareholder of Mail.ru is Usmanov – so it’s all logical news. Now I’m curious to download ICQ for the first time.

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  • @inertial
    I highly doubt that Putin has anything to do with it, or that he even understand what exactly is happening.

    I didn’t say he did.

    I just summarized what Gerard2 wrote. He found this example of bumbling incompetence “impressive.”

    You now resorted to the second line of defense: the shit might stink and is inedible, but it was not Putin personally who shat on the table in front of all of us; it was merely one of his men. Well, Putin is responsible for what his subordinates do.

    Read More
    • Replies: @inertial
    I am not defending anything, I just don't think Putin personally pulls every single lever in Russia. Or are you simply using "Putin" as the shorthand for the Russian government, the way they do it in the Western media? In this case, carry on.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @reiner Tor
    Putin just shat, and it smells sweet. Is tasty, too. Yummy!

    There’s nothing impressive at all in accidentally shutting off 0.5% of the Russian internet just to shut off a service, and being unable to shut off what they actually wanted to.

    By the way it just showed another inexplicable weakness of Russia. I understand that it might be somewhat more expensive due to a lack of sufficient economies of scale, but Russia should build its own cloud services and encourage its companies to use them.

    I highly doubt that Putin has anything to do with it, or that he even understand what exactly is happening.

    Read More
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    I didn’t say he did.

    I just summarized what Gerard2 wrote. He found this example of bumbling incompetence “impressive.”

    You now resorted to the second line of defense: the shit might stink and is inedible, but it was not Putin personally who shat on the table in front of all of us; it was merely one of his men. Well, Putin is responsible for what his subordinates do.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Gerard2
    OR....Telegram just could do what is legally required of them ,like Twitter,Facebook and google do in Russia.....and then carry on as normal.

    Far from being incompetent it's actually quite impressive the "technically illiterate' security services manages to shutdown 1/200th of Russia's internet temporarily, governments across the west launching a simple service on the internet experience much more proportionally greater problems in doing so.

    Putin just shat, and it smells sweet. Is tasty, too. Yummy!

    There’s nothing impressive at all in accidentally shutting off 0.5% of the Russian internet just to shut off a service, and being unable to shut off what they actually wanted to.

    By the way it just showed another inexplicable weakness of Russia. I understand that it might be somewhat more expensive due to a lack of sufficient economies of scale, but Russia should build its own cloud services and encourage its companies to use them.

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    • Replies: @inertial
    I highly doubt that Putin has anything to do with it, or that he even understand what exactly is happening.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Dmitry
    Runet is becoming some kind of parody of late 1990s American internet. As if buying livejournal and making it into the Russian company was not funny enough. Now ICQ is getting trending. I'm just waiting now for when Myspace becomes the official venue for government communication.

    Honestly had no idea ICQ even still existed until I read this article. Too bad the Russians couldn’t save AIM before it was too late.

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    • Replies: @Dmitry
    Lol -

    Although has been owned for years now by Mail.ru as said above- they advertise it like a flagship product along with the classmates shit

    Since 2014, controlling shareholder of Mail.ru is Usmanov - so it's all logical news. Now I'm curious to download ICQ for the first time.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Runet is becoming some kind of parody of late 1990s American internet. As if buying livejournal and making it into the Russian company was not funny enough. Now ICQ is getting trending. I’m just waiting now for when Myspace becomes the official venue for government communication.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jayce
    Honestly had no idea ICQ even still existed until I read this article. Too bad the Russians couldn't save AIM before it was too late.
    , @Anatoly Karlin
    https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/team_chat.png
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Hipsters could probably consider as forcing everyone to change to ICQ as cool in some perverted way.

    It’s like giving away your Nintendo Switch, to play on Gameboy and Sega Mega Drive.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mitleser
    >Nintendo Switch

    What is that?

    >Gameboy

    My childhood. ;_;

    Incidentally, I have used ICQ, but never Durov's Telegram.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • OR….Telegram just could do what is legally required of them ,like Twitter,Facebook and google do in Russia…..and then carry on as normal.

    Far from being incompetent it’s actually quite impressive the “technically illiterate’ security services manages to shutdown 1/200th of Russia’s internet temporarily, governments across the west launching a simple service on the internet experience much more proportionally greater problems in doing so.

    Read More
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    Putin just shat, and it smells sweet. Is tasty, too. Yummy!

    There’s nothing impressive at all in accidentally shutting off 0.5% of the Russian internet just to shut off a service, and being unable to shut off what they actually wanted to.

    By the way it just showed another inexplicable weakness of Russia. I understand that it might be somewhat more expensive due to a lack of sufficient economies of scale, but Russia should build its own cloud services and encourage its companies to use them.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • aaaa

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  • the civilized approach in situations where communications companies refuse to budge

    I am not if it is civilized but you go after executives, the American way.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Nacchio
    Joseph P. Nacchio is an American executive who was chairman of the board and chief executive officer of Qwest Communications International from 1997 to 2002.

    He was convicted of 19 counts of insider trading in Qwest stock on April 19, 2007[1] – charges his defense team claimed were U.S. government retaliation for his refusal to give customer data to the National Security Agency in February, 2001.[2] This defense was not admissible in court because the U.S. Department of Justice filed an in limine motion,[3] which is often used in national security cases, to exclude information which may reveal state secrets. Information from the Classified Information Procedures Act hearings in Mr. DiNaccio’s case was likewise ruled inadmissible.[4]

    On July 27, 2007, he was sentenced to six years in federal prison, and after appeals failed he reported to Federal Correctional Institution, Schuylkill in Schuylkill County, Pennsylvania on April 14, 2009 to serve his sentence.[5] Nacchio finished serving his sentence on September 20, 2013.[6]

    A CEO who resisted NSA spying is out of prison. And he feels ‘vindicated’ by Snowden leaks.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2013/09/30/a-ceo-who-resisted-nsa-spying-is-out-of-prison-and-he-feels-vindicated-by-snowden-leaks/?utm_term=.8655c027d229

    All other communication companies allowed NSA to install splitters (btw, by subcontracted companies that originated in Israel) to collect all communication traffic.

    Shady Companies With Ties to Israel Wiretap the U.S. for the NSA (by James Bamford)

    https://www.wired.com/2012/04/shady-companies-nsa/

    https://www.activistpost.com/2017/07/two-israeli-companies-spying-world.html
    “And the prism was shaped like a prism, and the light signals would come in, and they’d be split by the prism. And one copy of the light signal would go off to where it was supposed to be going in the telecom system, and the other half, this new cloned copy of the cables, would actually go one floor below to NSA’s secret room.

    “… And in the secret room was equipment by a private company called Narus, the very small company hardly anybody has ever heard of that created the hardware and the software to analyze these cables and then pick out the targets NSA is looking for and then forward the targeted communications onto NSA headquarters.”

    In James Bamford’s 2008 interview, he mentions two Israeli companies, Narus and Verint, that almost nobody knew about. They played a key role in developing and selling the technology that allowed NSA to deploy its PRISM spying program:

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  • Telegram is such a Russian service that it was launched in 2013 but only added a Russian language version 6 months ago.

    Read More
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  • Recently, YouTube suddenly shut down the If Americans Knew YouTube channel. This contained 70 videos providing facts-based information about Israel-Palestine. People going to the channel saw a message telling them that the site had been terminated for “violating YouTube guidelines”—implying to the public that we were guilty of wrongdoing. And ensuring they didn’t learn about...
  • Anonymous[419] • Disclaimer says:

    “O, what a tangled web (((we))) weave when first (((we))) practice to deceive” ~ Walter Scott

    Parentheses added.

    FAKE, PHONY, COUNTERFEIT, IMPOSTER “Jews” in equally counterfeit (((Rothschild)))-”Israel”.

    Why counterfeit, fake, phony, IMPOSTER “Jews”? Read on to find out.

    Why do I call them FAKE, PHONY, COUNTERFEIT, IMPOSTER “Jews”, and what is the real meaning of ZION-ist? Read on:

    The so-called “Sephardi” “Jews” (10% of all “Jews” today) are of BERBER-ARAB descent. The remaining 90% of so-called “Jews” today (the “Ashkenazi”) are of SLAVO-TURKIC descent. This means, that they have NO LEGITIMATE CLAIM to being the direct lineal descendants of the original, true IBERI (Hebrews) of the Old Testament era! NONE. WHAT-SO-EVER. Read Paul Wexler’s work in _The Non-Jewish Origins of the Sephardic Jews_, and _The Ashkenazic Jews: A Slavo-Turkic People in Search of a Jewish Identity_. Also, read THE GREAT DECEPTION: SYRIA, BRITAIN AND THE ROMAN CONSPIRACY, by Comyns Beaumont, IF you wish to discover the TRUE geographic location of the people, places & events described in both the Old & New Testament.

    And, (((they))) ADMIT AS MUCH, in (((their))) own publications:

    Encyclopedia Judaica 1971, Vol 10:23: “Jews began to call themselves Hebrews and Israelites in 1860 [AD].”

    Page 3 of the 1980 Jewish Almanac states: “Strictly speaking it is incorrect to call an Ancient Israelite a Jew or to call a contemporary [modern] Jew an Israelite or a Hebrew.”

    (You see, what these BERBER-ARABS & SLAVO-TURKS did, was HIJACK the very much VENERATED name & identity of the TRUE, ORIGINAL IBERI, or IBRI (Hebrews) of the Old Testament era, on their way to HIJACKING the entirety of Western Civilization! When did they do it? 1860 AD.

    With regard to the meaning of ZION-ism, read these three extremely relevant quotes about “Jew”-ish SUPREMACISM (i.e., ZION-ism):

    1) “We Jews regard our race as superior to all humanity, and look forward, not to its ultimate union with other races, but to its triumph over them.” (Goldwin Smith, Jewish Professor of Modern History at Oxford University, October, 1981)

    2) “We Jews, we are the destroyers and will remain the destroyers. Nothing you can do will meet our demands and needs. We will forever destroy because we want a world of our own.” (You Gentiles, by Jewish Author Maurice Samuels, p. 155).

    3) “We will have a world government whether you like it or not. The only question is whether that government will be achieved by conquest or consent.” (Jewish Banker Paul Warburg, February 17, 1950, as he testified before the U.S. Senate).

    Source: 1001 Quotes By and About Jews: https://www.stormfront.org/posterity/13texan/q351-400.htm

    WHY, is all the foregoing SO VITAL for ALL AMERICANS to FULLY comprehend? Read on:

    Study the history of the so-called “Russian” “Revolution”. It was (((Rothschild)))-agents, (((Paul Warburg))), and (((Jacob Schiff))) who FINANCED fellow-tribesman (((Lev Bronstein))) alias (((Leon Trotsky))) to the tune of $20 Million (USD) in gold, when (((Bronstein/Trotsky))) boarded a ship in New York Harbor!, bound for Russia, and the (((Rothschild)))-financed overthrow (really massacre) of the 300-year-old ORTHODOX CHRISTIAN Romanov Family Dynasty. It is historically significant, that the so-called “Russian” “Revolution” was a FAKE, PHONY, COUNTERFEIT, IMPOSTER “Jew”-ish operation, from beginning to end.

    All America Must Know the Terror That is Upon Us

    https://www.amfirstbooks.com/IntroPages/ToolBarTopics/Articles/Featured_Authors/strom,_kevin/kevin_strom_works/Kevin_Strom_1991-1994/Kevin_A._Strom_19930814-ADV_All_America_Must_Know_the_Terror_That_Is_Upon_Us.html

    Again, WHY is ALL the foregoing information SO VITAL for EVERY AMERICAN to comprehend? Read on:

    1) Dual Citizenship — Loyal to Whom?, by Dan Eden for View Zone:

    http://www.viewzone.com/dualcitizen.html

    2) Zionists Are a Fifth Column in America:

    http://www.henrymakow.com/zionists_fifth_column_in_ameri.html

    The evidence is right in front of your nose. Wake up, America!

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  • @L.K
    Thank you, Alison Weir! You have been a warrior!

    For those who have not yet, pick up a copy of A. Weir's excellent, packed full of info book,
    Against Our Better Judgment: The Hidden History of How the U.S. Was Used to Create Israel.

    If you decide to read just one book on the issue of Zionism, make it Alison's book.

    Yes, thank you Alison Weir! Her book is required reading.

    Website: http://ifamericaknew.org

    https://israelpalestinenews.org/israel-partisans-work-censor-internet/

    Read More
    • Agree: Cloak And Dagger
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Hasbara trolls are easy to spot, now that I’ve had plenty of experience with their shamelessly dishonest (& relentlessly maudlin) behavior.

    I know decent people who happen to be Jews.

    But these trolls embody every negative stereotype of Jews that ever came down the pike.

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  • @jeff davis
    The Israeli "art students" -- Mossad -- were in the US to monitor and chaperone the coming 911 attack. The wanted it to succeed. They were ready to help. Perhaps they did help. They certainly danced in celebration on the day of the attack. The Zionist state is no friend of the US. In fact, it is no friend to anyone.

    Their are many problems confronting the Zionists in their information war. Among them:

    (1) Though very well organized, the Zionists effort is vastly outnumbered: thirty million Jews worldwide vs seven billion non-jews.
    (2) Though control of the mass media once enabled the dominance of the Zionist "narrative" (ie the big lie), the internet and smart phone cameras have ended that monopoly. It's very nearly impossible to convince someone of a lie when they already know the truth and witness it daily with their own (lying?) eyes.
    (3) The underlying mental defect of garrison state, siege-mentality Zionism, that more violence will somehow solve the problem.
    (4) The decline of American power in the world, the decline of American support for Israel, growing awareness of disproportionate Israeli influence (ie "subversion") of the American political system, and the decline of support for Israel by the younger generation of American Jews.
    (5) Other factors you might wish to add.

    And one last thing: I'm an American and a Jew, just not a supporter of criminal Zionism.

    (1) Though very well organized, the Zionists effort is vastly outnumbered: thirty million Jews worldwide vs seven billion non-jews.

    Irrelevant. Money buys votes, money buys support, money buys censorship, money buys total media control.

    Money wins, thus Israel wins. Every time.

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  • @Anon
    Israeli agencies passed on all info to U.S. However, the info was not unique among many similar ones filtering in for at least a decade. Thus a preparedness for the attack was not put into place. I cannot help you if you have already succumbed to conspiracy theories.

    The Israeli “art students” — Mossad — were in the US to monitor and chaperone the coming 911 attack. The wanted it to succeed. They were ready to help. Perhaps they did help. They certainly danced in celebration on the day of the attack. The Zionist state is no friend of the US. In fact, it is no friend to anyone.

    Their are many problems confronting the Zionists in their information war. Among them:

    (1) Though very well organized, the Zionists effort is vastly outnumbered: thirty million Jews worldwide vs seven billion non-jews.
    (2) Though control of the mass media once enabled the dominance of the Zionist “narrative” (ie the big lie), the internet and smart phone cameras have ended that monopoly. It’s very nearly impossible to convince someone of a lie when they already know the truth and witness it daily with their own (lying?) eyes.
    (3) The underlying mental defect of garrison state, siege-mentality Zionism, that more violence will somehow solve the problem.
    (4) The decline of American power in the world, the decline of American support for Israel, growing awareness of disproportionate Israeli influence (ie “subversion”) of the American political system, and the decline of support for Israel by the younger generation of American Jews.
    (5) Other factors you might wish to add.

    And one last thing: I’m an American and a Jew, just not a supporter of criminal Zionism.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Gittelson

    (1) Though very well organized, the Zionists effort is vastly outnumbered: thirty million Jews worldwide vs seven billion non-jews.
     
    Irrelevant. Money buys votes, money buys support, money buys censorship, money buys total media control.

    Money wins, thus Israel wins. Every time.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @RobinG
    The squamous mcohen must be referring to the 'guilt by association' with which JVP's Vilkomerson tried to tag Alison.

    Was it to Clay Douglas' radio show that she accepted an invitation to speak about her book, Against Our Better Judgment: The hidden history of how the U.S. was used to create Israel? Alison was castigated for (1) accepting to go on the show, and (2) not sufficiently berating the host for his (apparent, or alleged, 'cause I'm no witness) anti-Semitism. LOL.

    Generally despised at Mondoweiss, mcohen is now trolling fetid hasbara here, as well. Pffft... a shitstain on the page. Thanks again for your response, but at what point is it best to ignore?

    [You were already warned that unless your greatly improved your punctuation, capitalization, and grammar your comments would not be published.]

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  • Our grandparents faced a quandary when they had to describe some body parts or physical activity. The ‘obscene words’ remained taboo at least until D.H. Lawrence broke the prohibition in Lady Chatterley’s Lover, and the four-letter words became printable only recently. However, now we have new banned words, or words one can use only at...
  • Anonymous[295] • Disclaimer says:

    i think israel shamir should stop writing and ron unz stop publising articles like this.

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  • Recently, YouTube suddenly shut down the If Americans Knew YouTube channel. This contained 70 videos providing facts-based information about Israel-Palestine. People going to the channel saw a message telling them that the site had been terminated for “violating YouTube guidelines”—implying to the public that we were guilty of wrongdoing. And ensuring they didn’t learn about...
  • @SolontoCroesus
    Never heard of Clay Douglas. Just tuned in to one of his programs so I'd know what the beef is. He seems like a pretty marginal character.

    Douglas is probably not a member of Skull and Bones or even of AEP.

    Appears he appeals to a different demographic than those two groups; what do you have against diversity and multiculturalism, mcohen???

    re your closing sentiment, "think peace not hate." Hate to sound cynical, but I don't think you really mean that.
    OR maybe you subscribe to your co-ethno-religio-tribe member, self-proclaimed "proud Levite," Michael Ledeen's definition of peace:

    “Peace is not the opposite of war, it is the result of war. It’s what happens when a war is fought and one side beats the other side and the winning side imposes terms on the loser, and those terms are called peace and are generally hammered at a peace conference and sometimes it takes the form of a peace treaty."

    ---
    heh.
    You'll get a kick outa this, mcohen: a Black guy called in to C Span Washington Journal and complained that C Span does not pay appropriate attention to what Jews in Israel are doing to Palestinians in Gaza, and also that Israel is expelling tens of thousands of Black Africans. He said, "We [Blacks] have supported Israel for years, and this is the thanks we get."

    The C Span MOD basically ignored the comment -- Move along, nothing to see -- but you can be sure CAMERA will write it up and demand that C Span mend its ways or No Soup for You.

    But I thought it was interesting that the BLACK community is showing cracks in its slavish (isn't it weird how words pop into your brain?) support for Jews and Israel, as if NAACP or BLM has ever done anything for them. Slowly the giant awakes.

    The squamous mcohen must be referring to the ‘guilt by association’ with which JVP’s Vilkomerson tried to tag Alison.

    Was it to Clay Douglas’ radio show that she accepted an invitation to speak about her book, Against Our Better Judgment: The hidden history of how the U.S. was used to create Israel? Alison was castigated for (1) accepting to go on the show, and (2) not sufficiently berating the host for his (apparent, or alleged, ’cause I’m no witness) anti-Semitism. LOL.

    Generally despised at Mondoweiss, mcohen is now trolling fetid hasbara here, as well. Pffft… a shitstain on the page. Thanks again for your response, but at what point is it best to ignore?

    Read More
    • Replies: @mcohen
    [You were already warned that unless your greatly improved your punctuation, capitalization, and grammar your comments would not be published.]
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @mcohen
    still no mention of alison weirs connection to clay douglas.just the usual burp and fart.let's address this issue now.I suppose when you have a book to promote like "against the Jews" it is not what you know but who you know.

    peace solonto .peace robin g.peace art

    think peace not hate.

    halla igbal

    Never heard of Clay Douglas. Just tuned in to one of his programs so I’d know what the beef is. He seems like a pretty marginal character.

    Douglas is probably not a member of Skull and Bones or even of AEP.

    Appears he appeals to a different demographic than those two groups; what do you have against diversity and multiculturalism, mcohen???

    re your closing sentiment, “think peace not hate.” Hate to sound cynical, but I don’t think you really mean that.
    OR maybe you subscribe to your co-ethno-religio-tribe member, self-proclaimed “proud Levite,” Michael Ledeen’s definition of peace:

    “Peace is not the opposite of war, it is the result of war. It’s what happens when a war is fought and one side beats the other side and the winning side imposes terms on the loser, and those terms are called peace and are generally hammered at a peace conference and sometimes it takes the form of a peace treaty.”


    heh.
    You’ll get a kick outa this, mcohen: a Black guy called in to C Span Washington Journal and complained that C Span does not pay appropriate attention to what Jews in Israel are doing to Palestinians in Gaza, and also that Israel is expelling tens of thousands of Black Africans. He said, “We [Blacks] have supported Israel for years, and this is the thanks we get.”

    The C Span MOD basically ignored the comment — Move along, nothing to see — but you can be sure CAMERA will write it up and demand that C Span mend its ways or No Soup for You.

    But I thought it was interesting that the BLACK community is showing cracks in its slavish (isn’t it weird how words pop into your brain?) support for Jews and Israel, as if NAACP or BLM has ever done anything for them. Slowly the giant awakes.

    Read More
    • Replies: @RobinG
    The squamous mcohen must be referring to the 'guilt by association' with which JVP's Vilkomerson tried to tag Alison.

    Was it to Clay Douglas' radio show that she accepted an invitation to speak about her book, Against Our Better Judgment: The hidden history of how the U.S. was used to create Israel? Alison was castigated for (1) accepting to go on the show, and (2) not sufficiently berating the host for his (apparent, or alleged, 'cause I'm no witness) anti-Semitism. LOL.

    Generally despised at Mondoweiss, mcohen is now trolling fetid hasbara here, as well. Pffft... a shitstain on the page. Thanks again for your response, but at what point is it best to ignore?
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @SolontoCroesus
    Alison Weir does not slither.

    Not long after Mondoweiss "horribles", including the wolf-in-sheep's-clothing horrible (peace, RobinG) JVP attacked Ms. Weir, she spoke to a packed room at Florida University. The room was salted with former IDF who monopolized the Q&A. Weir faced them all down and did not lose her cool for one instant.

    Try again ajpl, we're on your case.

    still no mention of alison weirs connection to clay douglas.just the usual burp and fart.let’s address this issue now.I suppose when you have a book to promote like “against the Jews” it is not what you know but who you know.

    peace solonto .peace robin g.peace art

    think peace not hate.

    halla igbal

    Read More
    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
    Never heard of Clay Douglas. Just tuned in to one of his programs so I'd know what the beef is. He seems like a pretty marginal character.

    Douglas is probably not a member of Skull and Bones or even of AEP.

    Appears he appeals to a different demographic than those two groups; what do you have against diversity and multiculturalism, mcohen???

    re your closing sentiment, "think peace not hate." Hate to sound cynical, but I don't think you really mean that.
    OR maybe you subscribe to your co-ethno-religio-tribe member, self-proclaimed "proud Levite," Michael Ledeen's definition of peace:

    “Peace is not the opposite of war, it is the result of war. It’s what happens when a war is fought and one side beats the other side and the winning side imposes terms on the loser, and those terms are called peace and are generally hammered at a peace conference and sometimes it takes the form of a peace treaty."

    ---
    heh.
    You'll get a kick outa this, mcohen: a Black guy called in to C Span Washington Journal and complained that C Span does not pay appropriate attention to what Jews in Israel are doing to Palestinians in Gaza, and also that Israel is expelling tens of thousands of Black Africans. He said, "We [Blacks] have supported Israel for years, and this is the thanks we get."

    The C Span MOD basically ignored the comment -- Move along, nothing to see -- but you can be sure CAMERA will write it up and demand that C Span mend its ways or No Soup for You.

    But I thought it was interesting that the BLACK community is showing cracks in its slavish (isn't it weird how words pop into your brain?) support for Jews and Israel, as if NAACP or BLM has ever done anything for them. Slowly the giant awakes.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Thank you, Alison Weir! You have been a warrior!

    For those who have not yet, pick up a copy of A. Weir’s excellent, packed full of info book,
    Against Our Better Judgment: The Hidden History of How the U.S. Was Used to Create Israel.

    If you decide to read just one book on the issue of Zionism, make it Alison’s book.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Paul C.
    Yes, thank you Alison Weir! Her book is required reading.

    Website: http://ifamericaknew.org

    https://israelpalestinenews.org/israel-partisans-work-censor-internet/
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @SolontoCroesus
    Alison Weir does not slither.

    Not long after Mondoweiss "horribles", including the wolf-in-sheep's-clothing horrible (peace, RobinG) JVP attacked Ms. Weir, she spoke to a packed room at Florida University. The room was salted with former IDF who monopolized the Q&A. Weir faced them all down and did not lose her cool for one instant.

    Try again ajpl, we're on your case.

    Oops… Vilkomerson is on JVP “Academic Advisory Council” – less prominent that Chair of Directors, but no less dangerous.

    https://jewishvoiceforpeace.org/campus-organizing/academic-advisory-council/

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  • @SolontoCroesus
    Alison Weir does not slither.

    Not long after Mondoweiss "horribles", including the wolf-in-sheep's-clothing horrible (peace, RobinG) JVP attacked Ms. Weir, she spoke to a packed room at Florida University. The room was salted with former IDF who monopolized the Q&A. Weir faced them all down and did not lose her cool for one instant.

    Try again ajpl, we're on your case.

    Thanks for sparing me the cooties of writing directly to that pustule. As for Alison being “dealt with” on Mondoweiss, it was a battle royal within the trbe, with Rebecca Vilkomerson getting thoroughly thrashed, and I notice her name is no longer on the JVP page.

    As for mcohen…
    NO PEACE FOR YOU!!!!!

    [In "Soup-Nazi" (peace, indeed) fashion.]
    *Excellent your post to Olde Wizzer about Graetz.

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  • @Anon
    Israeli agencies passed on all info to U.S. However, the info was not unique among many similar ones filtering in for at least a decade. Thus a preparedness for the attack was not put into place. I cannot help you if you have already succumbed to conspiracy theories.

    Israeli agencies passed on all info to U.S. ( on 9/11)

    Sure thing – we believe that 100 %.

    Scratch 9/11 and it bleeds Jew.

    Think Peace — Do No Harm — Art

    p.s. Time for a real investigation into 9/11 run by Americans.

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  • Anon[613] • Disclaimer says:

    JVP is a gatekeeper organization that has taken over the Palestinian movement in America to prevent any real hardhitting Palestinian movement from taking root in America. They dont want any activism that shows the connection between mainstream jewish organizations and antimuslim hate organizations in this country. If JVP harasses Allison Weir that means she is doing something right

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  • @mcohen
    Nah not even classic

    https://jewishvoiceforpeace.org/jewish-voice-for-peace-statement-on-our-relationship-with-alison-weir/

    A few years ago she was caught out associating with the horribles.it was dealt with on mondoweiss.check it out.she slithered away hoping people would forget.

    Peace lurker

    Halla igbal

    Alison Weir does not slither.

    Not long after Mondoweiss “horribles”, including the wolf-in-sheep’s-clothing horrible (peace, RobinG) JVP attacked Ms. Weir, she spoke to a packed room at Florida University. The room was salted with former IDF who monopolized the Q&A. Weir faced them all down and did not lose her cool for one instant.

    Try again ajpl, we’re on your case.

    Read More
    • Replies: @RobinG
    Thanks for sparing me the cooties of writing directly to that pustule. As for Alison being "dealt with" on Mondoweiss, it was a battle royal within the trbe, with Rebecca Vilkomerson getting thoroughly thrashed, and I notice her name is no longer on the JVP page.

    As for mcohen...
    NO PEACE FOR YOU!!!!!

    [In "Soup-Nazi" (peace, indeed) fashion.]
    *Excellent your post to Olde Wizzer about Graetz.
    , @RobinG
    Oops... Vilkomerson is on JVP "Academic Advisory Council" - less prominent that Chair of Directors, but no less dangerous.

    https://jewishvoiceforpeace.org/campus-organizing/academic-advisory-council/
    , @mcohen
    still no mention of alison weirs connection to clay douglas.just the usual burp and fart.let's address this issue now.I suppose when you have a book to promote like "against the Jews" it is not what you know but who you know.

    peace solonto .peace robin g.peace art

    think peace not hate.

    halla igbal
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  • @Lurker
    Classic.

    Kind of undermines the 'pro-Israel' hasbara doesn't it. Because for you people it's all about whining, trolling, disruption and the rest.

    110 coming up.

    Nah not even classic

    https://jewishvoiceforpeace.org/jewish-voice-for-peace-statement-on-our-relationship-with-alison-weir/

    A few years ago she was caught out associating with the horribles.it was dealt with on mondoweiss.check it out.she slithered away hoping people would forget.

    Peace lurker

    Halla igbal

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    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
    Alison Weir does not slither.

    Not long after Mondoweiss "horribles", including the wolf-in-sheep's-clothing horrible (peace, RobinG) JVP attacked Ms. Weir, she spoke to a packed room at Florida University. The room was salted with former IDF who monopolized the Q&A. Weir faced them all down and did not lose her cool for one instant.

    Try again ajpl, we're on your case.
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  • @mcohen
    Alison weir whining about censorship. You poor thing.Did you actually believe that israel would not fight back and allow you to spread your nazi inspired lies on the internet.

    Halla igbal

    Peace alison.

    Classic.

    Kind of undermines the ‘pro-Israel’ hasbara doesn’t it. Because for you people it’s all about whining, trolling, disruption and the rest.

    110 coming up.

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    • Replies: @mcohen
    Nah not even classic

    https://jewishvoiceforpeace.org/jewish-voice-for-peace-statement-on-our-relationship-with-alison-weir/

    A few years ago she was caught out associating with the horribles.it was dealt with on mondoweiss.check it out.she slithered away hoping people would forget.

    Peace lurker

    Halla igbal
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  • Great article.

    Our problem is most people don’t even get that this war is taking place right under their noses, trying to explain ends up in conspiracy territory.

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  • @Uebersetzer
    Why was the German invasion justified and the Soviet one not? Is it that "Wally" is a Nazi and therefore thinks all Nazi actions are justified for that reason alone?

    Another dumb, childish hasbarist response. Yawn.

    The communist & violent Zionist heavy USSR had no justification, the Germans had plenty.

    Recall the seizing of German land under the widely denounced cruelty of the Versailles Treaty, terror against Germans in ‘Poland’, and Polish warmongering .
    see:
    Polish Atrocities against Germans before 1. September 1939

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7525

    a taste:

    “Poland wants war with Germany and Germany will not be able to avoid it even if she wants to.”
    - Polish Marshal Rydz-Smigly as reported in the Daily Mail, August 6th, 1939)

    and:.

    ”under Polish pressure the Germans in the southern and eastern districts were subjected to oppressive treatment. On Aug. 19 1920 the Poles felt strong enough, indeed, to make an attempt to seize the country by force. On all sides bands of Poles, chiefly recruited from Congress Poland, usurped authority. A number of Germans were forcibly carried across the frontier into Poland, and many were killed. Several weeks elapsed before it was possible to quell this rising and restore order…It had been suggested by the Entente that non-resident Upper Silesians of the German Reich should vote outside Silesia, at Cologne. Germany protested against this, and her protest was recognized as valid by the Entente. In January 1921 the date of the plebiscite was fixed for March 20 1921.
    An immediate revival took place in the use of terrorism by the Poles, especially in the districts of Rybnik, Pless, Kattowitz, and Beuthen. It reached its climax in the days preceding the plebiscite. Voters from other parts of the German Reich were frequently refused admission to the polls; sometimes they were maltreated and even in some instances murdered; and houses where outvoters were staying were set on fire… The day after the plebiscite the Polish excesses recommenced, and from that date onwards continued without interruption… Practically all the towns voted for Germany… the first days of May witnessed a new Polish insurrection which assumed far greater proportions than the former one. Korfanty had secretly raised a well-organized Polish force which was provided with arms and munition from across the border, and was reinforced by large bodies of men from Poland…
    By June 20 the British troops had again occupied the larger towns, while the Poles had the upper hand in the rural districts. As a result of the difficulties in paying his men and providing them with food Korfanty now lost control over his followers. Independent bands were formed which plundered the villages, ill-treated the Germans, and murdered many of them.”

    - 1922 Encyclopaedia Britannica, “SILESIA, UPPER”

    Responsibility for WW2

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7544

    http://www.codoh.com

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  • @RobinG
    Must be retribution for b. exposing media fraud and Pat Lang's letter to Mattis.

    A repost of the appeal to James Mattis, the United States Secretary of Defense, from the honorable Colonel Patrick Lang: http://www.turcopolier.typepad.com
    —————————————————————-
    I beseech you, sir, to consider the possibility that the supposed chlorine gas attack at Douma, Syria may have been a carefully constructed propaganda fraud on the part of the rebels encircled in Douma. Such a fraud would have as its purpose the elicitation of exactly the kind of response that we are seeing in the Western media. The rebels have been defeated in East Gouta. Their fighters and families are being evacuated to Turkish occupied Jarabulus by air-conditioned bus. How would it benefit the Syrian government to make such an attack in this situation?

    I hope that you will determine the exact facts of what occurred at Douma before any action is taken.

    I recommend that you send someone competent to Syria to make an on the ground investigation.

    W. Patrick Lang

    Colonel (Ret.) US Army

    Hi robin

    He is really….the honorable retired colonel

    HRC with oak leaf and acorn on chest

    Peace art peace robin

    Halla igbal

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  • @Jett Rucker
    Not just the Internet. Not just the press. Not just academia. Not just the government. Not just the banks.
    They got BOOKS, too, as described in this Unz Review article. http://www.unz.com/article/books-banned-by-banned-books-week

    This book is BANNED by AMAZON ___________

    GRAND DECEPTION: THE BROWDER HOAX
    By Alex Krainer

    https://thirdalliance.ch/product/grand-deception-the-browder-hoax/

    In 2015, Bill Browder published “Red Notice” – purportedly a true story about his experience in Russia. Upon closer scrutiny however, his story doesn’t add up and demonstrably fails to stand up in a court of law. Nonetheless, on the dubious strength of that story, Browder has been able to lobby the U.S. Congress to pass the Magnitsky Act in 2012 which needlessly damaged the relations between the U.S. and Russia.

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  • @RudyM
    Moon of Alabama and Sic Semper Tyrannis both down. Kind of scary, considering the timing.

    Must be retribution for b. exposing media fraud and Pat Lang’s letter to Mattis.

    A repost of the appeal to James Mattis, the United States Secretary of Defense, from the honorable Colonel Patrick Lang: http://www.turcopolier.typepad.com
    —————————————————————-
    I beseech you, sir, to consider the possibility that the supposed chlorine gas attack at Douma, Syria may have been a carefully constructed propaganda fraud on the part of the rebels encircled in Douma. Such a fraud would have as its purpose the elicitation of exactly the kind of response that we are seeing in the Western media. The rebels have been defeated in East Gouta. Their fighters and families are being evacuated to Turkish occupied Jarabulus by air-conditioned bus. How would it benefit the Syrian government to make such an attack in this situation?

    I hope that you will determine the exact facts of what occurred at Douma before any action is taken.

    I recommend that you send someone competent to Syria to make an on the ground investigation.

    W. Patrick Lang

    Colonel (Ret.) US Army

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    • Replies: @mcohen
    Hi robin

    He is really....the honorable retired colonel

    HRC with oak leaf and acorn on chest

    Peace art peace robin

    Halla igbal
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  • “After you – O Israel – have inherited the earth… and achieved dominion over every living thing on earth…then… shall mankind beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; then (and only then) shall one nation not lift up sword against another nation, neither shall they learn war anymore..” The Torah

    “Israel (“man chosen by YHWH” and “May YHWH rule”) is above all the nations, as the head is above the body.” Josephus, 24 CE

    In the Alenu, the prayer that closes every Jewish service the Jews chant: ‘Lord We await to see your Splendor Perfecting The World. Then will humanity RECOGNIZE & KNOW that to you EVERY KNEE MUST BEND, EVERY TONGUE PLEDGE LOYALTY & may they all accept the YOKE OF YOUR JEWISH KINGDOM – and MAY YOU RULE OVER THEM (thou the holy chosen Jews) SOON & FOR ALL TIME.’

    ‘Just as, in the 16th and 17th centuries, (so in the 19th century) Jewish antennae everywhere were ever alert to pick up murmurs of an act of injustice to Jews anywhere that stirred emotions in the growing Jewish urban centres.’ Paul Johnson, History of the Jews

    “If you are chosen, you cannot choose! We are chosen; the choice is outside of us. We are Jews! Defined as Jews! Essentially Jews!” In Search of American Jewish Culture

    Arthur Koestler: “If one looks with a cold open eye at the mess man has made of his history, it is difficult to avoid the conclusion that he has been afflicted By some built-in mental disorder which drives him toward self-destruction.”

    George Orwell: “We shall get nowhere until we start…recognizing that the world is suffering from some kind of mental disease which must be diagnosed

    Berdynaev: “We are not aware that we live in madness which is but superficially concealed.”

    William Barrett: “Nothing can be accomplished by denying that man (esp an appointed one) is an essentially troubled (afflicted, being, except to make (encourage) more trouble (affliction, torment).”

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  • Ziocons have ordered the US military to invade the airspace of the sovereign Syria: https://www.fort-russ.com/2018/04/breaking-us-spy-plane-gathers-intel-data-in-syria-attack-expected-in-few-days/
    “The US Navy P-8A Poseidon, which is a reconnaissance aircraft able to penetrate deep into enemy territory is carrying out a multi-hour flight near the coast of Syria, where the Russian air base Khmeimim and the logistics base of the port of Tartus are located.
    The spy plane with the onboard number 168439 flew from the Sigonella airbase on the Italian island of Sicily and is now at an altitude of 8,000 meters, circling the distance of 40 kilometers from the air base of Khmeimim and the Russian Navy base in Tartus.
    Its flight path passes over the international waters of the Mediterranean Sea. According to the Turkish press, 100 kilometers from the Russian base in Tartus there is also the American destroyer Donald Cook, equipped with 56 Tomahawk cruise missiles.
    According to The Wall Street Journal, the White House is preparing to strike Syria in response to reports that allegedly on April 7, in the vicinity of the city of the Douma, chemical weapons were used. Washington accused Damascus officially – but Russia had warned of a rebel attack being planned a number of days prior.”
    — The Israel-firsters want to dismember Syria… All according to Oded Yinon plan for Eretz Israel. The 52 major American Jewish organizations are silent; they approve the mass slaughter.
    What can go wrong?

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  • How to make the Jews hated by any rational person: https://ahtribune.com/us/israelgate/2212-bipartisan-pandering-to-jewish-interests.html
    “The pandering to Jewish interests is widespread in the federal government and is bipartisan. Israel runs a large trade surplus with the United States because it has free access to the U.S. market and can also bid on government contracts, a privilege normally afforded only to NATO allies. Plus Washington foots the bill for more than 20% of Israeli defense spending, even allowing Israel to use American taxpayer provided dollars to buy weapons from its own defense industry, which competes with that of the U.S.
    Indeed, in the past year, there has been a virtual flood of legislation that has been favorable to Israel and some Jewish-related issues even though there is no actual interest in play for other Americans. On the contrary, much of the legislation actually denies to citizens and residents the Constitutional rights to free speech and freedom of association. The most recent legislation benefiting Israel and punishing Israel’s host of enemies was rolled into the omnibus spending bill that was signed into law on March 23rd. Israel received additional money for its “defense” while the Palestinians saw money going both to the Palestinian Authority as well as to the United Nations to help refugees in the Middle East cut dramatically.
    Twenty-four states are now requiring statements pledging not to boycott Israel from those citizens and organizations that receive government funding or even seek local government employment. Two bills in Congress also seek to define as anti-Semitism any criticism of Israel. On December 12th 2017 the Anti-Semitism Awareness Act was approved by the House of Representatives with 402 affirmative votes and only two libertarian-leaning congressmen voting “no.” The Israel Anti-Boycott Act that is also currently making its way through the Congress would far exceed what is happening at the state level and would set a new standard for deference to Israeli interests on the part of the national government. It would criminalize any U.S. citizen “engaged in interstate or foreign commerce” who supports a boycott of Israel or who even goes about “requesting the furnishing of information” regarding it, with penalties enforced through amendments of two existing laws, the Export Administration Act of 1979 and the Export-Import Act of 1945, that include potential fines of between $250,000 and $1 million and up to 20 years in prison.”

    – Again, why the Jews hate Egypt, Persia, Russia, Germany…? — For the natives’ attempts to get rid of the parasite?

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  • Israeli soldiers CHEER as a sniper shoots ‘unarmed’ Palestinian protester in video filmed through rifle sight

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5598681/Israeli-soldiers-CHEER-sniper-kills-unarmed-Palestinian-protester-video.html#ixzz5CHxiY828

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  • @Anon
    Speaking of Yiddish, it was the official
    language of the communist party of the USA for about 15 years. With the exception of useful idiot pseudo intellectual John Reed and a few others the founders of the CPUSA were all jumped up Russian shetl Yiddish speaking immigrants who didn’t speak English.
    Finally on the early 1930s Stalin realized that a Yiddish speaking NYC organization wouldn’t make much progress in an English speaking nation.

    So Stalin decreed 4 rules:

    1 the CPUSA headquarters be moved from Jewish NYC to Chicago.

    2. That the communists learn English and use it in personal and official CPUSS life And all meeting and publications be in English.

    3. That Jews be no more than 40 percent of the CPUSA instead of 80 to 90 percent as it was during the 19 teens and 20s.

    4. That the head of the CPUSA not be a Jew or have Jewish grandparents. Which is how they got Gus Hall for decades as there were so few goyim to hold that office.

    And what American organization fought communism all those years while the government hired thousands of them and useful idiot pseudo intellectuals worshipped the CPUSA

    The Catholic Church that old lefty jilles dykstra so despises.

    It’s telling that after centuries in Russia and the polish provinces of Russia the Russian Jews still spoke Yiddish.

    anon No. 257 complained:
    “The Catholic Church that old lefty jilles dykstra so despises.”

    Hi # 257,

    Is it possible that the “old lefty,” j. dykstra, actually resents the present right-wing (conservative) intellectual wing of the ZUS Roman Catholic Church?

    Below is a rather waffling (deceitful?) new article written by the great Patrick Buchanan.

    An experienced politician,”revisionist” historian, author, Pat Buchanan knows that Trump’s presidential campaign was financially supported by billionaire Sheldon Adelson — a born-again character right out of the Protocols, & an uptown nut who wants Iran annihilated.

    PreZident Trump is not merely hooked by a “War Party.”

    Pat Buchanan knows better. Adelson and Jewish Neoconservatives are pulling Trump’s puppet strings. (Article below)

    http://buchanan.org/blog/has-the-war-party-hooked-trump-129088

    Oh well, # 257, I offer suggestion that “old lefty,” j. dykstra, might actually despise the Vatican City Lowerarchy and ZUS Roman Catholic political-intellectuals, (other examples, Newt Gingrich, Jeb Bush, Governor Andy Cuomo), whose public deeds are regrettably opposite to those offered by Catholics, Philip Giraldi and Ray McGovern.

    Servus, # 257.

    P.S.:
    j. dykstra might support the “lefty” work of the brave Chicago-based peace activist,
    Kathy Kelly. Her organization’s web site, http://www.vcnv.org, [email protected]. Kathy did months of jail time for protesting at a U.S. military base HQ that specialized in killing by drones. F.Y.I., I co-wrote an “Open Letter to the Catholic Church” which requested Pope Francis to meet with Kathy Kelly while he visited the U.S. Par for the course, not one Catholic magazine/web site published the open letter.

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  • @SolontoCroesus
    I apologize, annamaria, for attacking you personally and also for failing to read and understand your comment as a whole. I had Frank Raymond's talk to the Justice for Germans Society https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UkHJyeFaMg in my head: "No people in history have been shamed as have the German people . . ."

    I agree with Art; your comments are providing tremendous value to this forum.
    Thank you.

    I respect your wisdom and knowledge.

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