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    From the Los Angeles Times, a blow-by-blow account of a feminist celebrity struggle session at the Sundance film festival: Celebration of women filmmakers triggers heated debate among Salma Hayek, Jessica Williams and Shirley MacLaine Amy Kaufman ... Here at the home of ChefDance CEO and founder Mimi Kim, Woodard, Shirley MacLaine, Elle Fanning and Jill...
  • @guest
    I'm not going to contradict what you've said, you may be perfectly correct. But I must stress that it's not long legs in themselves that people find attractive, but legs that are disproportionately long. The discussion was originally about height, and tall women, who naturally would have longer legs, tend not to get credit for them the same way fat women don't get credit for large breasts.

    Also, like I said, shape is more important. Because "chicken legs" are unattractive no matter your sex. Women with long, skinny legs, which includes the stereotypical fashion model, are unfeminine and therefore unattractive. On the other hand, strong, muscular legs on women is masculine and therefore unattractive, no matter how long they are.

    That goes for men with spindly legs, as well. It makes them look ungainly, despite the fact that unlike for women above average height is desirable in men.

    I wonder if you find the legs of the Korean women in this photo
    attractive.
    A couple of guys I asked described them as tree-stump legs, but said the girls were kind of cute anyway, the cuteness apparently emanating from their long hair and mimicry of the features of white women. If they had Milt Caniff-style dragon lady features and legs, I suspect the long legs would be a major attraction.
    I’ve heard it said that the most attractive legs are those of ice-skaters, with those of bicyclists second. Mountain hikers…hill walkers…and frequent stair-climbers are also said to have attractive legs, with good calf- and thigh-definition and firm buttocks.

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  • @Jefferson
    "At least 5 of these wouldn’t look out of place in Italy or Greece. Very different from Semitic Yemenis."

    Yemenis look very different from Mediterraneans because of their Sub Saharan African admixture, not because of their Semitic admixture. After all Jews play Italians in films and television shows all of the time, way more than WASPs do.

    Yemenis look very different from Mediterraneans because of their Sub Saharan African admixture, not because of their Semitic admixture.

    Good point.

    Here are marsh Arabs from southern Iraq, who are about 4.5% European, and don’t have the African mixture. They may be among the purest of the Semites. One wouldn’t mistake them for Europeans:

    After all Jews play Italians in films and television shows all of the time, way more than WASPs do.

    Ashkenazi Jews are something like 40% Italian, genetically.

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  • @Steve Sailer
    Long leggedness in either sex, especially in women, is associated with higher class and a slower life cycle. Your sexual tastes may vary, but long-leggedness is socially attractive in that it correlates with a well-nourished, healthy childhood.

    Femme fatales who outwit saps in classic movies have long legs. It's a symbol of how the sap has gotten himself into a situation over his head.

    Ideally, a woman’s legs should be long enough to reach the ground without needing high-heels.

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  • @AP
    When I was an undergrad in the Midwest, I had a friend who was from Azerbaijan (these people are Turkic-speaking Shiites who are genetically related to Georgians, Armenians, Turks, and Persians). When he got a driver's license, the clerk wasn't sure if he was Hispanic or not, and questioned whether he was Caucasian as he claimed.

    Azerbaijan is in the Caucuses mountains.

    "If I am not Caucasian, who is Caucasian?" he asked.

    “When I was an undergrad in the Midwest, I had a friend who was from Azerbaijan (these people are Turkic-speaking Shiites who are genetically related to Georgians, Armenians, Turks, and Persians). When he got a driver’s license, the clerk wasn’t sure if he was Hispanic or not, and questioned whether he was Caucasian as he claimed.

    Azerbaijan is in the Caucuses mountains.”

    I have also read about Iranians in Los Angeles being mistaken for Mexicans by WASPs.

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    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @AP

    No you are wrong.
    https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/reference-populations-next-gen/


     

    You once again misinterpreted what you read. I posted data on genotype - your numbers are simply geographic origin. The two are not the same - as I pointed out to you, there are cases of Europeans with geographic origins in Asia, and of Asians who are from Europe. Kurds, Armenians, Georgians are examples of Europeans from Asia (the Europe-Asia border goes through Georgia).

    During the bronze age and earlier, people we now know as Europeans expanded from their original homeland in Asia and spread all over the place. Europe was sparsely populated, the natives (who apparently were related to modern Asians, with strong Neanderthal admixture) were swamped and destroyed, so Europe became basically 100% what we would consider European. But some of these "Europeans" stayed in Asia, or migrated to other parts of Asia. In many cases they were absorbed but there are people such as in the Caucuses or isolated in mountainous areas as far east as Pakistan who retain their "European" genotypes. In the case of the shamanistic and often blonde, blue-eyed Kalash people of Pakistan who practice a sort of primitive tribal Hinduism, they are not at all culturally "European" but they are genetically so.
    In the case of Christian Armenians or Georgians - if they are not European, than neither are Greeks.

    Googleimage "Kalash people" and you will get a good glimpse of what the ancient invaders of southern Asia probably looked like.


    You can also find the rare blond child in Yemen for example, does that mean Yemenis are a European ethnic group?
     
    The blonde "Yemeni" children that googleimage produced were often mislabelled Kalashi or other non-Yemenis.

    Blonde hair, blue eyes, and/or European facial features are not that rare among Kurds (one reason why Arab ISIS fighters like them as sex slaves). To be sure, Kurds have over the centuries gotten some Arabic admixture but they are basically European, and the more isolated and mountainous their origins, the more European they look.

    Here are Yemeni girls in native clothes. Yemen is 0% European in terms of genetics:

    https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2567/4204117418_0ca26f06c7_b.jpg

    Here are Kurdish girls in native costume:

    http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/dressed-for-festivities-kurdish-girls-walk-to-a-countryside-picnic-picture-id755899

    At least 5 of these wouldn't look out of place in Italy or Greece. Very different from Semitic Yemenis.


    Carleton Coon described Armenians as belonging to the Armenoid race.
     
    He did. He described them as a sub-type of the Caucasian race and very close to another subtype, the Dinaric race (the people of Greece and Italy).

    “At least 5 of these wouldn’t look out of place in Italy or Greece. Very different from Semitic Yemenis.”

    Yemenis look very different from Mediterraneans because of their Sub Saharan African admixture, not because of their Semitic admixture. After all Jews play Italians in films and television shows all of the time, way more than WASPs do.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AP

    Yemenis look very different from Mediterraneans because of their Sub Saharan African admixture, not because of their Semitic admixture.
     
    Good point.

    Here are marsh Arabs from southern Iraq, who are about 4.5% European, and don't have the African mixture. They may be among the purest of the Semites. One wouldn't mistake them for Europeans:

    http://l7.alamy.com/zooms/b5c2610abefa4170aa5c12cd9a0ee9ed/children-from-a-marsh-arabs-village-near-amarah-iraq-b3g4hk.jpg

    http://l7.alamy.com/zooms/79e52bbeaff444b391ab42109a483813/marsh-arabs-shatt-al-arab-iraq-ar8p1m.jpg

    After all Jews play Italians in films and television shows all of the time, way more than WASPs do.
     
    Ashkenazi Jews are something like 40% Italian, genetically.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Steve Sailer
    Long leggedness in either sex, especially in women, is associated with higher class and a slower life cycle. Your sexual tastes may vary, but long-leggedness is socially attractive in that it correlates with a well-nourished, healthy childhood.

    Femme fatales who outwit saps in classic movies have long legs. It's a symbol of how the sap has gotten himself into a situation over his head.

    By the way, I’ll bet the femme fatales you have in mind had shapely legs, not straight up-and-down and gangly ones, nor strong, muscular ones.

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    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Steve Sailer
    Long leggedness in either sex, especially in women, is associated with higher class and a slower life cycle. Your sexual tastes may vary, but long-leggedness is socially attractive in that it correlates with a well-nourished, healthy childhood.

    Femme fatales who outwit saps in classic movies have long legs. It's a symbol of how the sap has gotten himself into a situation over his head.

    I’m not going to contradict what you’ve said, you may be perfectly correct. But I must stress that it’s not long legs in themselves that people find attractive, but legs that are disproportionately long. The discussion was originally about height, and tall women, who naturally would have longer legs, tend not to get credit for them the same way fat women don’t get credit for large breasts.

    Also, like I said, shape is more important. Because “chicken legs” are unattractive no matter your sex. Women with long, skinny legs, which includes the stereotypical fashion model, are unfeminine and therefore unattractive. On the other hand, strong, muscular legs on women is masculine and therefore unattractive, no matter how long they are.

    That goes for men with spindly legs, as well. It makes them look ungainly, despite the fact that unlike for women above average height is desirable in men.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Whoever
    I wonder if you find the legs of the Korean women in this photo
    attractive.
    A couple of guys I asked described them as tree-stump legs, but said the girls were kind of cute anyway, the cuteness apparently emanating from their long hair and mimicry of the features of white women. If they had Milt Caniff-style dragon lady features and legs, I suspect the long legs would be a major attraction.
    I've heard it said that the most attractive legs are those of ice-skaters, with those of bicyclists second. Mountain hikers...hill walkers...and frequent stair-climbers are also said to have attractive legs, with good calf- and thigh-definition and firm buttocks.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Steve Sailer
    The Sports Illustrated swimsuit edition led to a convergence in looks between fashion models and bikini models in the mid-1970s: e.g., Cheryl Tiegs. To get on the cover of SI, the most valuable single job in terms of fame and career, a model generally had to appeal to both camps.

    I don’t know about Cheryl Tiegs in particular, who was before my time and whose body isn’t familiar to me. But since I’ve been aware of such things, Sports Illustrated cover models are like any other model, except with larger breasts. Or not even that, in the case of say Elle Macpherson.

    SI has been totally captured by High Fashion, if it ever was something separate.

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  • @Steve Sailer
    Long leggedness in either sex, especially in women, is associated with higher class and a slower life cycle. Your sexual tastes may vary, but long-leggedness is socially attractive in that it correlates with a well-nourished, healthy childhood.

    Femme fatales who outwit saps in classic movies have long legs. It's a symbol of how the sap has gotten himself into a situation over his head.

    In film noir like “Double Indemnity,” long legs are symbolic that the femme fatale has the self-discipline to play the long con.

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    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @AP
    When I was an undergrad in the Midwest, I had a friend who was from Azerbaijan (these people are Turkic-speaking Shiites who are genetically related to Georgians, Armenians, Turks, and Persians). When he got a driver's license, the clerk wasn't sure if he was Hispanic or not, and questioned whether he was Caucasian as he claimed.

    Azerbaijan is in the Caucuses mountains.

    "If I am not Caucasian, who is Caucasian?" he asked.

    Joe Wambaugh LAPD novels always feature at least one character who is confusing to the standard white / black / Latino / Asian categories that cops are supposed to check on their paperwork

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    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @guest
    I haven't done extensive research on the aesthetics of leg length. But I can say long-leggedness in itself isn't attractive, just like large breasts aren't. Because fat women have large breasts, and they aren't necessarily more attractive for that fact. Likewise, tall women have long legs, but we ought not to assume people favor above average height in women for that fact. It would be proportional length, if length is in fact prized. Shapeliness is more important, in any case.

    In any case, model-type legs, which are disproportionately long, are decidedly unattractive. They have no feminine shape, and are gangly. Like with everything else in High Fashion, and increasingly in the world at large, we confuse resemblance to adolescent males with feminine beauty.

    I could as easily have said high school as junior high. The point is pubescent kids are better at picking out natural beauty than those of us corrupted by our upside-down culture. Tall women aren't favored in any sector of heterosexual male society, but especially not in adolescence and early adulthood.

    Sexual maturity isn't the issue. Or maybe it is, in the sense that the secondary sexual characteristics of model-types never fully form. If they do, the woman in question wouldn't be alloweded to be a model. (Or not a High Fashion model, anyway.)

    When models talk of their unhappy adolescences on chat shows, we're supposed to shake our heads, laugh, and not really believe them. Or imagine they bloomed after school; I don't know which, maybe both. But I believe every model who says she was a tomboy and/or ugly duckling in school because they still are! Their looks didn't mature. Instead, they were thrown into a different world, with different standards, where ugly tomboys are appreciated.

    Long leggedness in either sex, especially in women, is associated with higher class and a slower life cycle. Your sexual tastes may vary, but long-leggedness is socially attractive in that it correlates with a well-nourished, healthy childhood.

    Femme fatales who outwit saps in classic movies have long legs. It’s a symbol of how the sap has gotten himself into a situation over his head.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    In film noir like "Double Indemnity," long legs are symbolic that the femme fatale has the self-discipline to play the long con.
    , @guest
    I'm not going to contradict what you've said, you may be perfectly correct. But I must stress that it's not long legs in themselves that people find attractive, but legs that are disproportionately long. The discussion was originally about height, and tall women, who naturally would have longer legs, tend not to get credit for them the same way fat women don't get credit for large breasts.

    Also, like I said, shape is more important. Because "chicken legs" are unattractive no matter your sex. Women with long, skinny legs, which includes the stereotypical fashion model, are unfeminine and therefore unattractive. On the other hand, strong, muscular legs on women is masculine and therefore unattractive, no matter how long they are.

    That goes for men with spindly legs, as well. It makes them look ungainly, despite the fact that unlike for women above average height is desirable in men.
    , @guest
    By the way, I'll bet the femme fatales you have in mind had shapely legs, not straight up-and-down and gangly ones, nor strong, muscular ones.
    , @Hippopotamusdrome
    Ideally, a woman's legs should be long enough to reach the ground without needing high-heels.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Steve Sailer
    Long-leggedness is an attribute of sexiness in both sexes. Long legs imply a healthy, well-fed childhood, which implies a healthy, well-fed adulthood, which in turn implies healthy, well-fed children.

    Junior high school is when girls who go through puberty relatively early stop growing. Girls who go through puberty later keep growing. That's why tall models and actresses all tell interviewers that they were tomboys and weren't pretty when they were young -- for a year or so in adolescence they were behind in the puberty race.

    But it doesn't make much difference outside of junior high school.

    I haven’t done extensive research on the aesthetics of leg length. But I can say long-leggedness in itself isn’t attractive, just like large breasts aren’t. Because fat women have large breasts, and they aren’t necessarily more attractive for that fact. Likewise, tall women have long legs, but we ought not to assume people favor above average height in women for that fact. It would be proportional length, if length is in fact prized. Shapeliness is more important, in any case.

    In any case, model-type legs, which are disproportionately long, are decidedly unattractive. They have no feminine shape, and are gangly. Like with everything else in High Fashion, and increasingly in the world at large, we confuse resemblance to adolescent males with feminine beauty.

    I could as easily have said high school as junior high. The point is pubescent kids are better at picking out natural beauty than those of us corrupted by our upside-down culture. Tall women aren’t favored in any sector of heterosexual male society, but especially not in adolescence and early adulthood.

    Sexual maturity isn’t the issue. Or maybe it is, in the sense that the secondary sexual characteristics of model-types never fully form. If they do, the woman in question wouldn’t be alloweded to be a model. (Or not a High Fashion model, anyway.)

    When models talk of their unhappy adolescences on chat shows, we’re supposed to shake our heads, laugh, and not really believe them. Or imagine they bloomed after school; I don’t know which, maybe both. But I believe every model who says she was a tomboy and/or ugly duckling in school because they still are! Their looks didn’t mature. Instead, they were thrown into a different world, with different standards, where ugly tomboys are appreciated.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Long leggedness in either sex, especially in women, is associated with higher class and a slower life cycle. Your sexual tastes may vary, but long-leggedness is socially attractive in that it correlates with a well-nourished, healthy childhood.

    Femme fatales who outwit saps in classic movies have long legs. It's a symbol of how the sap has gotten himself into a situation over his head.

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Charles Erwin Wilson

    Susan Sarandon is 70, and still looks good.
     
    Oh, good grief - what's next? Gloria Steinem still has it? Barbara Streisand is a looker? Shirley MacLaine makes

    I am all for non disputandem de gustibus est and all that, but really. Come on, the Wicked Witch of the West will be next.

    Okay, if you like Ms. Sarandon I wish you the best of luck with her. But if you wake up bereft of your manhood after your evening of bliss don't say you weren't warned.

    The above poster means to say “for her age,” no doubt. This gets translated into plain good lookedness, I don’t know why.

    I imagine something similar happens with all the frankly ugly actresses who are called good looking. They look good for women who look like men, or they look good in the sense that at least they aren’t obese and don’t have open wounds on their heads.

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  • @Jefferson
    Adriana Lima has been bleached."

    No she hasn't, that's her natural complexion. You can look at all of her pictures on Google image and there is not a single picture of her where she looks like she would blend right in a crowd of Nigerians.

    The fact that you use Adriana Lima as an example of a so-called "Black" Brazilian means I can not take your definition of "Black" Brazilian seriously.

    I said she is a “light-skinned” black. Yes, she’s lighter than Nigerians, but she is black. I saw pictures of her family and many relatives are dark blacks. Also, she knows that she’s black. She is from northern Brazil where most Brazilian blacks live – Bahia. Latin America is either mestizo (Indian) or mulatto (black). Brazil is over 52% black.

    I’m not a “racial purist” as there are very few pure races. But you can most certainly categorize people by their families. And you’re pretty much going to get it right regardless of skin tones.

    Jennifer Lopez is light-skinned black Puerto Rican. She knows she’s black.

    Jews are very mixed with blacks and Asians. Here is a youtube describing Israel. Ignore the title.

    You said Margaret Thatcher’s daughter was not white because she was 25% North African. Carol Thatcher is white, Adriana Lima is not white.

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  • @Steve Sailer
    On "Adam 12" 50 years ago, the LAPD used the term Caucasian to get around hairsplitting over whether they were looking for a Greek or a Lebanese.

    When I was an undergrad in the Midwest, I had a friend who was from Azerbaijan (these people are Turkic-speaking Shiites who are genetically related to Georgians, Armenians, Turks, and Persians). When he got a driver’s license, the clerk wasn’t sure if he was Hispanic or not, and questioned whether he was Caucasian as he claimed.

    Azerbaijan is in the Caucuses mountains.

    “If I am not Caucasian, who is Caucasian?” he asked.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Joe Wambaugh LAPD novels always feature at least one character who is confusing to the standard white / black / Latino / Asian categories that cops are supposed to check on their paperwork
    , @Jefferson
    "When I was an undergrad in the Midwest, I had a friend who was from Azerbaijan (these people are Turkic-speaking Shiites who are genetically related to Georgians, Armenians, Turks, and Persians). When he got a driver’s license, the clerk wasn’t sure if he was Hispanic or not, and questioned whether he was Caucasian as he claimed.

    Azerbaijan is in the Caucuses mountains."

    I have also read about Iranians in Los Angeles being mistaken for Mexicans by WASPs.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Jefferson
    "Wrong."

    No you are wrong.
    https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/reference-populations-next-gen/

    'Do you claim that this Kurdish girl is not European?"

    You can also find the rare blond child in Yemen for example, does that mean Yemenis are a European ethnic group? The vast majority of Kurds are not blonde.

    "Of course, one can further classify “Caucasians” as Europeans vs. Semites. But in that case, Greeks, Armenians, Georgians, Kurds, etc. belong in the European category, despite them having some Semitic admixture."

    With the exception of Greeks, the groups you mentioned are not Europeans at all. They are either West Asians or Caucasus folks.

    Carleton Coon described Armenians as belonging to the Armenoid race.

    No you are wrong.

    https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/reference-populations-next-gen/

    You once again misinterpreted what you read. I posted data on genotype – your numbers are simply geographic origin. The two are not the same – as I pointed out to you, there are cases of Europeans with geographic origins in Asia, and of Asians who are from Europe. Kurds, Armenians, Georgians are examples of Europeans from Asia (the Europe-Asia border goes through Georgia).

    During the bronze age and earlier, people we now know as Europeans expanded from their original homeland in Asia and spread all over the place. Europe was sparsely populated, the natives (who apparently were related to modern Asians, with strong Neanderthal admixture) were swamped and destroyed, so Europe became basically 100% what we would consider European. But some of these “Europeans” stayed in Asia, or migrated to other parts of Asia. In many cases they were absorbed but there are people such as in the Caucuses or isolated in mountainous areas as far east as Pakistan who retain their “European” genotypes. In the case of the shamanistic and often blonde, blue-eyed Kalash people of Pakistan who practice a sort of primitive tribal Hinduism, they are not at all culturally “European” but they are genetically so.
    In the case of Christian Armenians or Georgians – if they are not European, than neither are Greeks.

    Googleimage “Kalash people” and you will get a good glimpse of what the ancient invaders of southern Asia probably looked like.

    You can also find the rare blond child in Yemen for example, does that mean Yemenis are a European ethnic group?

    The blonde “Yemeni” children that googleimage produced were often mislabelled Kalashi or other non-Yemenis.

    Blonde hair, blue eyes, and/or European facial features are not that rare among Kurds (one reason why Arab ISIS fighters like them as sex slaves). To be sure, Kurds have over the centuries gotten some Arabic admixture but they are basically European, and the more isolated and mountainous their origins, the more European they look.

    Here are Yemeni girls in native clothes. Yemen is 0% European in terms of genetics:

    Here are Kurdish girls in native costume:

    http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/dressed-for-festivities-kurdish-girls-walk-to-a-countryside-picnic-picture-id755899

    At least 5 of these wouldn’t look out of place in Italy or Greece. Very different from Semitic Yemenis.

    Carleton Coon described Armenians as belonging to the Armenoid race.

    He did. He described them as a sub-type of the Caucasian race and very close to another subtype, the Dinaric race (the people of Greece and Italy).

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "At least 5 of these wouldn’t look out of place in Italy or Greece. Very different from Semitic Yemenis."

    Yemenis look very different from Mediterraneans because of their Sub Saharan African admixture, not because of their Semitic admixture. After all Jews play Italians in films and television shows all of the time, way more than WASPs do.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @AP

    “They do. And? Do you really think that a non-European Caucasian Arab is somehow as different from a European as is an African or Native American?”

    Arabs are different enough in phenotype that they look quite different from a typical White American who is a German/English/Scottish/Irish mix.
     

    Are you now defining European as northwestern European?

    Because in terms of phenotype a Greek looks more like an Arab than like a Irishman. Is a Greek not a European, according to you?

    “The point is that the baseline for being a Mediterranean European is not something like 100% European ancestry but more like 80% European ancestry.”


    “Lebanese are about 20% European and 75% Middle Eastern.”

    The Lebanese are 5 percent European and 95 percent Middle Eastern.
     

    Wrong.

    http://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml

    Region/Haplogroup I R1a R1b G J2 J1 E T L Q N Others

    Lebanon 5 2.5 8 6.5 26 20 17.5 5 5 2 0 2.5

    I, R1a, R1b, and G (the first four) are European. It's about 20% in the Lebanese.

    23andme goes by geographic frequency, not origin. So if a group of Asians migrated to Europe but left few relatives in Asia, they would be classified as "European." Or Ashkenazi Jews, who are actually about 50% European and 50% Semitic, get classified as "European" on 23andme, because they are most often from Europe. For example, my wife is 1/8 Asian, from an obscure group that settled in European Russia, and 23and me says she is 100% European. I know a blonde, blue-eyed Transylvanian Saxon who got counted as almost completely "Balkan."

    Italians are about 20% MENA, even though if their particular MENA strains are found more often in Europe than in the middle east 23andme might count them as 100% European.


    “He is like someone with 3 Arab grandparents and an Italian one.”

    If you don’t draw the majority of your ancestry back to Europe which is the gold standard of Whiteness than you are not White period.
     

    You use "white" as some sort of social construct, rather than scientifically, as a colloquial term for Caucasian. According to you, Irish and German are white, Armenians (and therefore Greeks) not white. It reminds me of New Englanders traditionally not classifying the Portuguese as white. Of course, one can further classify "Caucasians" as Europeans vs. Semites. But in that case, Greeks, Armenians, Georgians, Kurds, etc. belong in the European category, despite them having some Semitic admixture.

    Do you claim that this Kurdish girl is not European?

    https://kurdistanland.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/kurdish-children.jpg

    “Wrong.”

    No you are wrong.

    https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/reference-populations-next-gen/

    ‘Do you claim that this Kurdish girl is not European?”

    You can also find the rare blond child in Yemen for example, does that mean Yemenis are a European ethnic group? The vast majority of Kurds are not blonde.

    “Of course, one can further classify “Caucasians” as Europeans vs. Semites. But in that case, Greeks, Armenians, Georgians, Kurds, etc. belong in the European category, despite them having some Semitic admixture.”

    With the exception of Greeks, the groups you mentioned are not Europeans at all. They are either West Asians or Caucasus folks.

    Carleton Coon described Armenians as belonging to the Armenoid race.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AP

    No you are wrong.
    https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/reference-populations-next-gen/


     

    You once again misinterpreted what you read. I posted data on genotype - your numbers are simply geographic origin. The two are not the same - as I pointed out to you, there are cases of Europeans with geographic origins in Asia, and of Asians who are from Europe. Kurds, Armenians, Georgians are examples of Europeans from Asia (the Europe-Asia border goes through Georgia).

    During the bronze age and earlier, people we now know as Europeans expanded from their original homeland in Asia and spread all over the place. Europe was sparsely populated, the natives (who apparently were related to modern Asians, with strong Neanderthal admixture) were swamped and destroyed, so Europe became basically 100% what we would consider European. But some of these "Europeans" stayed in Asia, or migrated to other parts of Asia. In many cases they were absorbed but there are people such as in the Caucuses or isolated in mountainous areas as far east as Pakistan who retain their "European" genotypes. In the case of the shamanistic and often blonde, blue-eyed Kalash people of Pakistan who practice a sort of primitive tribal Hinduism, they are not at all culturally "European" but they are genetically so.
    In the case of Christian Armenians or Georgians - if they are not European, than neither are Greeks.

    Googleimage "Kalash people" and you will get a good glimpse of what the ancient invaders of southern Asia probably looked like.


    You can also find the rare blond child in Yemen for example, does that mean Yemenis are a European ethnic group?
     
    The blonde "Yemeni" children that googleimage produced were often mislabelled Kalashi or other non-Yemenis.

    Blonde hair, blue eyes, and/or European facial features are not that rare among Kurds (one reason why Arab ISIS fighters like them as sex slaves). To be sure, Kurds have over the centuries gotten some Arabic admixture but they are basically European, and the more isolated and mountainous their origins, the more European they look.

    Here are Yemeni girls in native clothes. Yemen is 0% European in terms of genetics:

    https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2567/4204117418_0ca26f06c7_b.jpg

    Here are Kurdish girls in native costume:

    http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/dressed-for-festivities-kurdish-girls-walk-to-a-countryside-picnic-picture-id755899

    At least 5 of these wouldn't look out of place in Italy or Greece. Very different from Semitic Yemenis.


    Carleton Coon described Armenians as belonging to the Armenoid race.
     
    He did. He described them as a sub-type of the Caucasian race and very close to another subtype, the Dinaric race (the people of Greece and Italy).
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @attilathehen
    Adriana Lima has been bleached. I saw a picture of her when she was 18. She has straightened her hair. I saw a picture of her family. Lots of dark blacks.

    Heidi Klum is German but had 3 black kids. She has 1 white kid. She is compromised and her 3 kids are black.

    Latin America is very heterogenous. You can get pure white DNA from many parts.

    I think your awareness of how much Jews marry blacks and Asians has "colored" your perspective.

    “Latin America is very heterogenous. You can get pure white DNA from many parts.”

    I am talking about averages, not exceptions. There is not a single Latin American country where the average citizen has 100 percent European DNA. Do you know what average is? Is English your second language? Argentina is often touted as the “Whitest” country in Latin America even though the average Argentinian is 18 percent Amerindian.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentines#Genetic_research

    “I think your awareness of how much Jews marry blacks and Asians has “colored” your perspective.”

    Iberian Conquistadors mixed with Negroids and Mongoloids way more than Jews ever did, hence why Latin America is way more racially mongrel than Israel.

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  • @Dave Pinsen
    You doubt that there are a handful of natural blondes in all of Mexico, despite a non-trivial amount of German immigration to the country? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Mexicans

    Okay. You are quite the absolutist.

    “You doubt that there are a handful of natural blondes in all of Mexico, despite a non-trivial amount of German immigration to the country? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Mexicans

    Okay. You are quite the absolutist.”

    9 thousand Germans in a country of over 120 million people is extremely trivial.

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  • @attilathehen
    Adriana Lima has been bleached. I saw a picture of her when she was 18. She has straightened her hair. I saw a picture of her family. Lots of dark blacks.

    Heidi Klum is German but had 3 black kids. She has 1 white kid. She is compromised and her 3 kids are black.

    Latin America is very heterogenous. You can get pure white DNA from many parts.

    I think your awareness of how much Jews marry blacks and Asians has "colored" your perspective.

    Adriana Lima has been bleached.”

    No she hasn’t, that’s her natural complexion. You can look at all of her pictures on Google image and there is not a single picture of her where she looks like she would blend right in a crowd of Nigerians.

    The fact that you use Adriana Lima as an example of a so-called “Black” Brazilian means I can not take your definition of “Black” Brazilian seriously.

    Read More
    • Replies: @attilathehen
    I said she is a "light-skinned" black. Yes, she's lighter than Nigerians, but she is black. I saw pictures of her family and many relatives are dark blacks. Also, she knows that she's black. She is from northern Brazil where most Brazilian blacks live - Bahia. Latin America is either mestizo (Indian) or mulatto (black). Brazil is over 52% black.

    I'm not a "racial purist" as there are very few pure races. But you can most certainly categorize people by their families. And you're pretty much going to get it right regardless of skin tones.

    Jennifer Lopez is light-skinned black Puerto Rican. She knows she's black.

    Jews are very mixed with blacks and Asians. Here is a youtube describing Israel. Ignore the title.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sY0FOPa-j-E

    You said Margaret Thatcher's daughter was not white because she was 25% North African. Carol Thatcher is white, Adriana Lima is not white.

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Jefferson
    "I’m pretty sure they’ve got at least a few natural blondes working in Mexican TV. There was one on Sabado Gigante who looked Scandinavian."

    I doubt it because the 2 main sources of Caucasoid immigration into Mexico is Spain and Lebanon, not exactly known for their adult natural blondeness.

    You doubt that there are a handful of natural blondes in all of Mexico, despite a non-trivial amount of German immigration to the country? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Mexicans

    Okay. You are quite the absolutist.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "You doubt that there are a handful of natural blondes in all of Mexico, despite a non-trivial amount of German immigration to the country? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Mexicans

    Okay. You are quite the absolutist."

    9 thousand Germans in a country of over 120 million people is extremely trivial.

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Jenner Ickham Errican

    François-Henri Pinault is simply not thinking eugenically.
     
    Pinault already has children with a French ex-wife (according to Wikipedia). Assuming he’s straight and is looking for companionship in a mate, and not mere pump-dump-and-support Lebensborn vessels (which in that case should be fit young lasses), I give you this visual comparison: Linda Evangelista 2016 (top row!) vs. Salma Hayek 2016.

    Even though Hayek has a comically stumpy figure, she blows away Evangelista in the Cialis sweepstakes. Pinault himself is no Adonis. Here’s the little dude with Hayek and Six Flags’ Mr. Six, who is 6’3”.

    Linda should never have grown her hair long is all I gotta say.

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    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @AP

    “They do. And? Do you really think that a non-European Caucasian Arab is somehow as different from a European as is an African or Native American?”

    Arabs are different enough in phenotype that they look quite different from a typical White American who is a German/English/Scottish/Irish mix.
     

    Are you now defining European as northwestern European?

    Because in terms of phenotype a Greek looks more like an Arab than like a Irishman. Is a Greek not a European, according to you?

    “The point is that the baseline for being a Mediterranean European is not something like 100% European ancestry but more like 80% European ancestry.”


    “Lebanese are about 20% European and 75% Middle Eastern.”

    The Lebanese are 5 percent European and 95 percent Middle Eastern.
     

    Wrong.

    http://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml

    Region/Haplogroup I R1a R1b G J2 J1 E T L Q N Others

    Lebanon 5 2.5 8 6.5 26 20 17.5 5 5 2 0 2.5

    I, R1a, R1b, and G (the first four) are European. It's about 20% in the Lebanese.

    23andme goes by geographic frequency, not origin. So if a group of Asians migrated to Europe but left few relatives in Asia, they would be classified as "European." Or Ashkenazi Jews, who are actually about 50% European and 50% Semitic, get classified as "European" on 23andme, because they are most often from Europe. For example, my wife is 1/8 Asian, from an obscure group that settled in European Russia, and 23and me says she is 100% European. I know a blonde, blue-eyed Transylvanian Saxon who got counted as almost completely "Balkan."

    Italians are about 20% MENA, even though if their particular MENA strains are found more often in Europe than in the middle east 23andme might count them as 100% European.


    “He is like someone with 3 Arab grandparents and an Italian one.”

    If you don’t draw the majority of your ancestry back to Europe which is the gold standard of Whiteness than you are not White period.
     

    You use "white" as some sort of social construct, rather than scientifically, as a colloquial term for Caucasian. According to you, Irish and German are white, Armenians (and therefore Greeks) not white. It reminds me of New Englanders traditionally not classifying the Portuguese as white. Of course, one can further classify "Caucasians" as Europeans vs. Semites. But in that case, Greeks, Armenians, Georgians, Kurds, etc. belong in the European category, despite them having some Semitic admixture.

    Do you claim that this Kurdish girl is not European?

    https://kurdistanland.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/kurdish-children.jpg

    On “Adam 12″ 50 years ago, the LAPD used the term Caucasian to get around hairsplitting over whether they were looking for a Greek or a Lebanese.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AP
    When I was an undergrad in the Midwest, I had a friend who was from Azerbaijan (these people are Turkic-speaking Shiites who are genetically related to Georgians, Armenians, Turks, and Persians). When he got a driver's license, the clerk wasn't sure if he was Hispanic or not, and questioned whether he was Caucasian as he claimed.

    Azerbaijan is in the Caucuses mountains.

    "If I am not Caucasian, who is Caucasian?" he asked.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Jefferson
    "Adriana Lima a light-skinned black"

    Blue eyed Brazilian supermodel Adriana Lima would not be seen as Black in a single Sub Saharan African country. Adriana Lima is about as "Black" as Paris Jackson.

    Adriana Lima
    https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/7b/3d/ca/7b3dcaecb4ab4534b756cde93a2a572d.jpg

    Sub Saharan Africans
    https://i.ytimg.com/vi/wYOj7PWWE94/0.jpg

    "When they say “brown” that means a person with black ancestry."

    Brown is a way more accurate description than Black to describe a Brazilian who for example is 70 percent European and the remaining 30 percent is Amerindian and African. It is definitely not comparible to the average Black American who is a whopping 80 percent African and only 20 percent European.

    And if you are going to use the one drop rule for Brazilians you might as well use the one drop rule for all Hispanics as well. Every Latin American country has African DNA, even Mexico.
    http://rootsrevealed.blogspot.com/2013/06/african-americans-and-mexicans-are_9.html?m=1

    The only Spanish speaking country on the planet that is completely free of Negro DNA is Spain.

    Adriana Lima has been bleached. I saw a picture of her when she was 18. She has straightened her hair. I saw a picture of her family. Lots of dark blacks.

    Heidi Klum is German but had 3 black kids. She has 1 white kid. She is compromised and her 3 kids are black.

    Latin America is very heterogenous. You can get pure white DNA from many parts.

    I think your awareness of how much Jews marry blacks and Asians has “colored” your perspective.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jefferson
    Adriana Lima has been bleached."

    No she hasn't, that's her natural complexion. You can look at all of her pictures on Google image and there is not a single picture of her where she looks like she would blend right in a crowd of Nigerians.

    The fact that you use Adriana Lima as an example of a so-called "Black" Brazilian means I can not take your definition of "Black" Brazilian seriously.

    , @Jefferson
    "Latin America is very heterogenous. You can get pure white DNA from many parts."

    I am talking about averages, not exceptions. There is not a single Latin American country where the average citizen has 100 percent European DNA. Do you know what average is? Is English your second language? Argentina is often touted as the "Whitest" country in Latin America even though the average Argentinian is 18 percent Amerindian.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentines#Genetic_research


    "I think your awareness of how much Jews marry blacks and Asians has “colored” your perspective."

    Iberian Conquistadors mixed with Negroids and Mongoloids way more than Jews ever did, hence why Latin America is way more racially mongrel than Israel.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Jefferson
    "They do. And? Do you really think that a non-European Caucasian Arab is somehow as different from a European as is an African or Native American?"

    Arabs are different enough in phenotype that they look quite different from a typical White American who is a German/English/Scottish/Irish mix.

    I have yet to see an Arab cab driver who can pass for a WASP.

    An Iranian in Los Angeles for example has a higher chance of being mistaken for a Mexican or an Armenian than be mistaken for a WASP.

    "The point is that the baseline for being a Mediterranean European is not something like 100% European ancestry but more like 80% European ancestry."

    I am a Mediterranean European and my 23AndMe results said I am 100 percent European. I got 6 percent Ashkenazi but they lumped that into the European catagory rather than Middle Eastern. But even if you exclude Ashkenazi that is still 94 percent European. I guarantee zero percent of Lebanon's population would score 94 percent European ancestry on a DNA test, let alone 100 percent European ancestry.

    "Lebanese are about 20% European and 75% Middle Eastern."

    The Lebanese are 5 percent European and 95 percent Middle Eastern.

    "He is like someone with 3 Arab grandparents and an Italian one."

    If you don't draw the majority of your ancestry back to Europe which is the gold standard of Whiteness than you are not White period. There is a reason why there are ZERO articles about the unbearable Whiteness of The Middle East and North Africa. There is a reason why the Left supports mass MENA immigration into Western nations while the Right doesn't. MENAs are not seen as White enough by both sides of the political aisle. For pro and con reasons both sides of the political aisle see mass MENA immigration as the Browning of North America and Europe.

    “They do. And? Do you really think that a non-European Caucasian Arab is somehow as different from a European as is an African or Native American?”

    Arabs are different enough in phenotype that they look quite different from a typical White American who is a German/English/Scottish/Irish mix.

    Are you now defining European as northwestern European?

    Because in terms of phenotype a Greek looks more like an Arab than like a Irishman. Is a Greek not a European, according to you?

    “The point is that the baseline for being a Mediterranean European is not something like 100% European ancestry but more like 80% European ancestry.”

    “Lebanese are about 20% European and 75% Middle Eastern.”

    The Lebanese are 5 percent European and 95 percent Middle Eastern.

    Wrong.

    http://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml

    Region/Haplogroup I R1a R1b G J2 J1 E T L Q N Others

    Lebanon 5 2.5 8 6.5 26 20 17.5 5 5 2 0 2.5

    I, R1a, R1b, and G (the first four) are European. It’s about 20% in the Lebanese.

    23andme goes by geographic frequency, not origin. So if a group of Asians migrated to Europe but left few relatives in Asia, they would be classified as “European.” Or Ashkenazi Jews, who are actually about 50% European and 50% Semitic, get classified as “European” on 23andme, because they are most often from Europe. For example, my wife is 1/8 Asian, from an obscure group that settled in European Russia, and 23and me says she is 100% European. I know a blonde, blue-eyed Transylvanian Saxon who got counted as almost completely “Balkan.”

    Italians are about 20% MENA, even though if their particular MENA strains are found more often in Europe than in the middle east 23andme might count them as 100% European.

    “He is like someone with 3 Arab grandparents and an Italian one.”

    If you don’t draw the majority of your ancestry back to Europe which is the gold standard of Whiteness than you are not White period.

    You use “white” as some sort of social construct, rather than scientifically, as a colloquial term for Caucasian. According to you, Irish and German are white, Armenians (and therefore Greeks) not white. It reminds me of New Englanders traditionally not classifying the Portuguese as white. Of course, one can further classify “Caucasians” as Europeans vs. Semites. But in that case, Greeks, Armenians, Georgians, Kurds, etc. belong in the European category, despite them having some Semitic admixture.

    Do you claim that this Kurdish girl is not European?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    On "Adam 12" 50 years ago, the LAPD used the term Caucasian to get around hairsplitting over whether they were looking for a Greek or a Lebanese.
    , @Jefferson
    "Wrong."

    No you are wrong.
    https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/reference-populations-next-gen/

    'Do you claim that this Kurdish girl is not European?"

    You can also find the rare blond child in Yemen for example, does that mean Yemenis are a European ethnic group? The vast majority of Kurds are not blonde.

    "Of course, one can further classify “Caucasians” as Europeans vs. Semites. But in that case, Greeks, Armenians, Georgians, Kurds, etc. belong in the European category, despite them having some Semitic admixture."

    With the exception of Greeks, the groups you mentioned are not Europeans at all. They are either West Asians or Caucasus folks.

    Carleton Coon described Armenians as belonging to the Armenoid race.

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @attilathehen
    Hi Jefferson, it's been a while since we corresponded. First your comment no. 221. According to Wiki Brazil is about 52% non-white. When they say "brown" that means a person with black ancestry. I've read on other websites that it's actually 60%, but nonetheless, Brazil is majority black (from light to dark skin). Brazil's higher human development is in the white southern area where most of the whites live. Eastern and Balkan countries are still a mess from the collapse of Communism in 1992, the Balkan Wars, and now the Ukrainian-Crimean problems. Brazil is an inferior nation compared to Eastern Europe. The actor Matthew McConaughey is married to a light-skinned black Brazilian. The model Adriana Lima a light-skinned black. They are classified as black pardos.

    Now to comment 274. Asian and black women are attractive to Asian and black men. But even among Asian/black men, lighter skin and Caucasian features are preferred. Hence, the surgeries, dying, lightening, etc. Now if a Caucasoid woman wants to lighten (or darken) her hair, no biggie. There is light/dark hair among the Caucasoids. But I don't see any Caucasian women widening and flattening their noses, chemically darkening their skins, or getting eye surgery to slant their eyes. Well, only one, the degenerate Racheal Dolezal.

    Who are you? I remember in another one of you comments you said that "English blacks" are a good stock that can intermarry and assimilate to the white English. You also stated another time that you don't mind living among blacks in the USA. You are also a philosemite. You are all over the DNA map.

    “Adriana Lima a light-skinned black”

    Blue eyed Brazilian supermodel Adriana Lima would not be seen as Black in a single Sub Saharan African country. Adriana Lima is about as “Black” as Paris Jackson.

    Adriana Lima

    Sub Saharan Africans

    “When they say “brown” that means a person with black ancestry.”

    Brown is a way more accurate description than Black to describe a Brazilian who for example is 70 percent European and the remaining 30 percent is Amerindian and African. It is definitely not comparible to the average Black American who is a whopping 80 percent African and only 20 percent European.

    And if you are going to use the one drop rule for Brazilians you might as well use the one drop rule for all Hispanics as well. Every Latin American country has African DNA, even Mexico.

    http://rootsrevealed.blogspot.com/2013/06/african-americans-and-mexicans-are_9.html?m=1

    The only Spanish speaking country on the planet that is completely free of Negro DNA is Spain.

    Read More
    • Replies: @attilathehen
    Adriana Lima has been bleached. I saw a picture of her when she was 18. She has straightened her hair. I saw a picture of her family. Lots of dark blacks.

    Heidi Klum is German but had 3 black kids. She has 1 white kid. She is compromised and her 3 kids are black.

    Latin America is very heterogenous. You can get pure white DNA from many parts.

    I think your awareness of how much Jews marry blacks and Asians has "colored" your perspective.

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Jefferson
    "Asian women (along with black women) don’t count. Only Caucasian/European women are considered beautiful."

    If only White women are considered beautiful in the eyes of the male race who is impregnating all of the Asian women and Black women? Why aren't all of them single childless cat ladies? Why do they outbreed White women?

    "Asian women are busy whitening their skin, getting eyelid surgery and lightening their hair."

    And plenty of brunette Caucasoid women are also busy lightening their hair. For example remember the film The Blind Side? You have to be a retard to believe Sandra Bullock is a natural blonde. Sandra Bullock's natural hair color is the one you see in A Time To Kill starring Matthew McConaughey and Samuel L. Jackson.

    For example remember the film The Blind Side? You have to be a retard to believe Sandra Bullock is a natural blonde.

    She was playing a real-life blonde woman. Just like Charlize Theron isn’t naturally fat and snaggle-toothed.

    Just never go full fugly. Halle Berry,Monster’s Ball? Gwyneth Paltrow, Shakespeare In Love? Still showed the breasts. Salma Hayek, 2002, Frida? Went full fugly, went home empty-handed.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Svigor
    How come nobody ever recovers memories of past lives as dullards, or people who died rotting in dungeons, or lepers?

    I saw Bull Durham, too.

    Annie Savoy: I think probably with my love of four-legged creatures and hooves and everything, that in another lifetime I was probably Catherine the Great, or Francis of Assisi. I’m not sure which one. What do you think?
    Crash Davis: How come in former lifetimes, everybody is someone famous?
    [Annie and Crash pause, then both laugh]
    Crash Davis: I mean,
    [still laughing]
    Crash Davis: how come nobody ever says they were Joe Schmo?
    Annie Savoy: [still laughing] Because it doesn’t work that way, you fool!

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Hi Jefferson, it’s been a while since we corresponded. First your comment no. 221. According to Wiki Brazil is about 52% non-white. When they say “brown” that means a person with black ancestry. I’ve read on other websites that it’s actually 60%, but nonetheless, Brazil is majority black (from light to dark skin). Brazil’s higher human development is in the white southern area where most of the whites live. Eastern and Balkan countries are still a mess from the collapse of Communism in 1992, the Balkan Wars, and now the Ukrainian-Crimean problems. Brazil is an inferior nation compared to Eastern Europe. The actor Matthew McConaughey is married to a light-skinned black Brazilian. The model Adriana Lima a light-skinned black. They are classified as black pardos.

    Now to comment 274. Asian and black women are attractive to Asian and black men. But even among Asian/black men, lighter skin and Caucasian features are preferred. Hence, the surgeries, dying, lightening, etc. Now if a Caucasoid woman wants to lighten (or darken) her hair, no biggie. There is light/dark hair among the Caucasoids. But I don’t see any Caucasian women widening and flattening their noses, chemically darkening their skins, or getting eye surgery to slant their eyes. Well, only one, the degenerate Racheal Dolezal.

    Who are you? I remember in another one of you comments you said that “English blacks” are a good stock that can intermarry and assimilate to the white English. You also stated another time that you don’t mind living among blacks in the USA. You are also a philosemite. You are all over the DNA map.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "Adriana Lima a light-skinned black"

    Blue eyed Brazilian supermodel Adriana Lima would not be seen as Black in a single Sub Saharan African country. Adriana Lima is about as "Black" as Paris Jackson.

    Adriana Lima
    https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/7b/3d/ca/7b3dcaecb4ab4534b756cde93a2a572d.jpg

    Sub Saharan Africans
    https://i.ytimg.com/vi/wYOj7PWWE94/0.jpg

    "When they say “brown” that means a person with black ancestry."

    Brown is a way more accurate description than Black to describe a Brazilian who for example is 70 percent European and the remaining 30 percent is Amerindian and African. It is definitely not comparible to the average Black American who is a whopping 80 percent African and only 20 percent European.

    And if you are going to use the one drop rule for Brazilians you might as well use the one drop rule for all Hispanics as well. Every Latin American country has African DNA, even Mexico.
    http://rootsrevealed.blogspot.com/2013/06/african-americans-and-mexicans-are_9.html?m=1

    The only Spanish speaking country on the planet that is completely free of Negro DNA is Spain.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @AP

    “The baseline may very well be over 5% (the general southern European percentage of Lebanese people of all faiths) , so altogether Lebanese Christians may have about 10% European ancestry.”

    Let’s deal with facts and not hypotheticals. The average Lebanese is only 5 percent European which means thr Lebanese are not the gold standard of Europeaness.
     
    The discussion is about Lebanese Christians, specifically. We already now that Lebanese Christians are 2% Western European, other Lebanese are not. So it is likely that Lebanese Christians also have more southern European ancestry, as well.

    “Keep in mind that European ancestry is not 100% European among southern Europeans. Italians are perhaps 15% of non-European (Semitic plus North African) origin.”

    So the least European Italians are still way more genetically European than any Lebanese person
     
    In slightly underestimated Middle-Eastern genetic contribution to Italy - it is about 20%, not 15%. The point is that the baseline for being a Mediterranean European is not something like 100% European ancestry but more like 80% European ancestry. So a Lebanese, being 20% European, is 1/4 as purely European as an Italian. He is like someone with 3 Arab grandparents and an Italian one.

    since nobody with 2 Lebanese parents would ever test only 15 percent MENA ancestry on AncestryByDNA and 23AndMe.
     
    Probably not. However, your original figures were misinterpreted. Here are detailed figures for various peoples in Europe and the Middle East:

    http://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml

    I, R1A and R1B are "European." "G" is Caucasian/Indo-European (Armenian, Georgian, Greeks from Anatolia). These four groups are broadly European.

    "J" is Semitic, "T" is Middle Eastern/North African, "E" is North African (in the Middle East) and Balkan (in Europe), "L" is Middle-Eastern/Caucasian.

    Lebanese are about 20% European and 75% Middle Eastern.

    Palestinians are about 13% European.

    Saudis are about 10% European.

    Yemenese are about 0% European.

    Interestingly, Jordanians are about 27% European. The place must have had a lot of Roman settlement.

    Armenians and Kurds are not Europeans.
     
    I guess in your world Greek Anatolians, who are in the same genetic group as Armenians and Kurds, are also not Europeans? About 5-10 percent of Western Europeans have the ancestry primarily associated with Armenians and Kurds.

    If you define "European" strictly on geographic terms than Americans aren't Europeans either. If in terms of origin - most ancestors of modern Europeans arrived in Europe during the Bronze Age. The "Armenian" and "Kurdish" types are ones who stayed behind or moved to the ME rather than to Europe during the migrations.

    “The non-European background of Lebanese Christian is Caucasian. Semitic. It is silly to compare them to people of largely Native American ancestry with respect to “Euroepanness.”

    You said people who are part of Christianity have a lot culturally in common with Europeans.
     
    They do. And? Do you really think that a non-European Caucasian Arab is somehow as different from a European as is an African or Native American?

    “They do. And? Do you really think that a non-European Caucasian Arab is somehow as different from a European as is an African or Native American?”

    Arabs are different enough in phenotype that they look quite different from a typical White American who is a German/English/Scottish/Irish mix.

    I have yet to see an Arab cab driver who can pass for a WASP.

    An Iranian in Los Angeles for example has a higher chance of being mistaken for a Mexican or an Armenian than be mistaken for a WASP.

    “The point is that the baseline for being a Mediterranean European is not something like 100% European ancestry but more like 80% European ancestry.”

    I am a Mediterranean European and my 23AndMe results said I am 100 percent European. I got 6 percent Ashkenazi but they lumped that into the European catagory rather than Middle Eastern. But even if you exclude Ashkenazi that is still 94 percent European. I guarantee zero percent of Lebanon’s population would score 94 percent European ancestry on a DNA test, let alone 100 percent European ancestry.

    “Lebanese are about 20% European and 75% Middle Eastern.”

    The Lebanese are 5 percent European and 95 percent Middle Eastern.

    “He is like someone with 3 Arab grandparents and an Italian one.”

    If you don’t draw the majority of your ancestry back to Europe which is the gold standard of Whiteness than you are not White period. There is a reason why there are ZERO articles about the unbearable Whiteness of The Middle East and North Africa. There is a reason why the Left supports mass MENA immigration into Western nations while the Right doesn’t. MENAs are not seen as White enough by both sides of the political aisle. For pro and con reasons both sides of the political aisle see mass MENA immigration as the Browning of North America and Europe.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AP

    “They do. And? Do you really think that a non-European Caucasian Arab is somehow as different from a European as is an African or Native American?”

    Arabs are different enough in phenotype that they look quite different from a typical White American who is a German/English/Scottish/Irish mix.
     

    Are you now defining European as northwestern European?

    Because in terms of phenotype a Greek looks more like an Arab than like a Irishman. Is a Greek not a European, according to you?

    “The point is that the baseline for being a Mediterranean European is not something like 100% European ancestry but more like 80% European ancestry.”


    “Lebanese are about 20% European and 75% Middle Eastern.”

    The Lebanese are 5 percent European and 95 percent Middle Eastern.
     

    Wrong.

    http://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml

    Region/Haplogroup I R1a R1b G J2 J1 E T L Q N Others

    Lebanon 5 2.5 8 6.5 26 20 17.5 5 5 2 0 2.5

    I, R1a, R1b, and G (the first four) are European. It's about 20% in the Lebanese.

    23andme goes by geographic frequency, not origin. So if a group of Asians migrated to Europe but left few relatives in Asia, they would be classified as "European." Or Ashkenazi Jews, who are actually about 50% European and 50% Semitic, get classified as "European" on 23andme, because they are most often from Europe. For example, my wife is 1/8 Asian, from an obscure group that settled in European Russia, and 23and me says she is 100% European. I know a blonde, blue-eyed Transylvanian Saxon who got counted as almost completely "Balkan."

    Italians are about 20% MENA, even though if their particular MENA strains are found more often in Europe than in the middle east 23andme might count them as 100% European.


    “He is like someone with 3 Arab grandparents and an Italian one.”

    If you don’t draw the majority of your ancestry back to Europe which is the gold standard of Whiteness than you are not White period.
     

    You use "white" as some sort of social construct, rather than scientifically, as a colloquial term for Caucasian. According to you, Irish and German are white, Armenians (and therefore Greeks) not white. It reminds me of New Englanders traditionally not classifying the Portuguese as white. Of course, one can further classify "Caucasians" as Europeans vs. Semites. But in that case, Greeks, Armenians, Georgians, Kurds, etc. belong in the European category, despite them having some Semitic admixture.

    Do you claim that this Kurdish girl is not European?

    https://kurdistanland.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/kurdish-children.jpg

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @attilathehen
    Asian women (along with black women) don't count. Only Caucasian/European women are considered beautiful. Asian women are busy whitening their skin, getting eyelid surgery and lightening their hair. If Asian women are so desired, why do they imitate white women? Black women do the same thing. Their hair weaves are always straight hair, they have their noses fixed.

    “Asian women (along with black women) don’t count. Only Caucasian/European women are considered beautiful.”

    If only White women are considered beautiful in the eyes of the male race who is impregnating all of the Asian women and Black women? Why aren’t all of them single childless cat ladies? Why do they outbreed White women?

    “Asian women are busy whitening their skin, getting eyelid surgery and lightening their hair.”

    And plenty of brunette Caucasoid women are also busy lightening their hair. For example remember the film The Blind Side? You have to be a retard to believe Sandra Bullock is a natural blonde. Sandra Bullock’s natural hair color is the one you see in A Time To Kill starring Matthew McConaughey and Samuel L. Jackson.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Njguy73

    For example remember the film The Blind Side? You have to be a retard to believe Sandra Bullock is a natural blonde.
     
    She was playing a real-life blonde woman. Just like Charlize Theron isn't naturally fat and snaggle-toothed.

    Just never go full fugly. Halle Berry,Monster's Ball? Gwyneth Paltrow, Shakespeare In Love? Still showed the breasts. Salma Hayek, 2002, Frida? Went full fugly, went home empty-handed.

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  • The height of self-parody. If you ever think the Alt-Right argot that reduces all SJW ‘thought’ and speech to “good feelz” and “bad feelz” is overly simplistic, reading this article is a useful corrective.

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  • @Michelle
    LGBT, one of my exes said when the usage first came out that it sounded like a hell of a sandwich! If these chicks care so much about other chicks why have they subverted every special protection that women have ever enjoyed? They want to put us on the front lines in battle! Go figure! They are aiming to get women drafted.

    It seems to me, that feminists are working on behalf of men. The cure for male irresponsibility was more irresponsibility. Abortion, great for men. Birth control, great for men. Women working (and still dong the lions' share of taking care of the kids and household) great for men. Getting the milk without buying the cow, great for men. Shoving women out of the way to the lifeboats on the next cruise ship disaster, great for men! Every womyn for its/theirself, thanks feminists! Hell, the (cows) demanded the right to get lung cancer. You've come a long way baby!

    A custodian I know once told me that back when he was a ne'er do well ( aka Crack Head) whenever he and his crew of druggies were standing on the street corner and a woman would walk by, everyone would hide their brown bagged liquor bottles. Gone are the days!

    Michelle,

    Feminists hate women, but they hate God even more. See, he’s the one who made them born women. They wish they had been born men.

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  • @Anonymous
    Now, if this had been Lucy Liu rather than Salma Hayek, I wonder if there'd be as much hostility from the Peanut Gallery here, given how the short stature of Asians somehow gets a pass here (maybe because so many Asian women - although not Ms. Liu - look like 12 year old boys, bringing out the latent Gary Glitter that lurks in most alt-righters...)

    Asian women (along with black women) don’t count. Only Caucasian/European women are considered beautiful. Asian women are busy whitening their skin, getting eyelid surgery and lightening their hair. If Asian women are so desired, why do they imitate white women? Black women do the same thing. Their hair weaves are always straight hair, they have their noses fixed.

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    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "Asian women (along with black women) don’t count. Only Caucasian/European women are considered beautiful."

    If only White women are considered beautiful in the eyes of the male race who is impregnating all of the Asian women and Black women? Why aren't all of them single childless cat ladies? Why do they outbreed White women?

    "Asian women are busy whitening their skin, getting eyelid surgery and lightening their hair."

    And plenty of brunette Caucasoid women are also busy lightening their hair. For example remember the film The Blind Side? You have to be a retard to believe Sandra Bullock is a natural blonde. Sandra Bullock's natural hair color is the one you see in A Time To Kill starring Matthew McConaughey and Samuel L. Jackson.
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  • @Hare Krishna
    There are other names for a man who prefers women who looks like androgynous adolescents besides "cuck". Trapped in the closet?

    There are other names for a man who prefers women who looks like androgynous adolescents besides “cuck”. Trapped in the closet?

    Dear fellow, the cuck designation refers to the fact that Salma is a Mexican-Arab, not to the fact that she is vertically challenged.

    Trump reproduces only with Europeans. Lesser breeds need not apply.

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  • @Anonymous
    Now, if this had been Lucy Liu rather than Salma Hayek, I wonder if there'd be as much hostility from the Peanut Gallery here, given how the short stature of Asians somehow gets a pass here (maybe because so many Asian women - although not Ms. Liu - look like 12 year old boys, bringing out the latent Gary Glitter that lurks in most alt-righters...)

    Now, if this had been Lucy Liu rather than Salma Hayek, I wonder if there’d be as much hostility from the Peanut Gallery here, given how the short stature of Asians somehow gets a pass here

    Let’s see, using the Trumpometer on Lucy Liu:

    Height: 5ft 1.75in (according to http://www.celebheights.com/)

    Ancestry: East Asian

    So, no, Lucy Liu loses out to chicks who are tall and European.

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  • @Jenner Ickham Errican

    François-Henri Pinault is simply not thinking eugenically.
     
    Pinault already has children with a French ex-wife (according to Wikipedia). Assuming he’s straight and is looking for companionship in a mate, and not mere pump-dump-and-support Lebensborn vessels (which in that case should be fit young lasses), I give you this visual comparison: Linda Evangelista 2016 (top row!) vs. Salma Hayek 2016.

    Even though Hayek has a comically stumpy figure, she blows away Evangelista in the Cialis sweepstakes. Pinault himself is no Adonis. Here’s the little dude with Hayek and Six Flags’ Mr. Six, who is 6’3”.

    Pinault already has children with a French ex-wife (according to Wikipedia). Assuming he’s straight and is looking for companionship in a mate, and not mere pump-dump-and-support Lebensborn vessels (which in that case should be fit young lasses), I give you this visual comparison: Linda Evangelista 2016 (top row!) vs. Salma Hayek 2016.

    Evangelista’s decadent lifestyle has taken its toll…..

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  • @guest
    "Do you want your children to be tall or short?"

    That's not the central question of eugenics, thank God. If it were, we'd be breeding a race of tall men, okay. But what does it profit a man to have all the height in the world if he's got nothing but ugly women to pursue?

    “Do you want your children to be tall or short?”

    That’s not the central question of eugenics, thank God.

    Dunno. Never met anyone who wants to have short kids….

    If it were, we’d be breeding a race of tall men, okay. But what does it profit a man to have all the height in the world if he’s got nothing but ugly women to pursue?

    Dunno. The girls in the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit issue look pretty good to me:

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  • @Steve Sailer
    Long-leggedness is an attribute of sexiness in both sexes. Long legs imply a healthy, well-fed childhood, which implies a healthy, well-fed adulthood, which in turn implies healthy, well-fed children.

    Junior high school is when girls who go through puberty relatively early stop growing. Girls who go through puberty later keep growing. That's why tall models and actresses all tell interviewers that they were tomboys and weren't pretty when they were young -- for a year or so in adolescence they were behind in the puberty race.

    But it doesn't make much difference outside of junior high school.

    Junior high school is when girls who go through puberty relatively early stop growing. Girls who go through puberty later keep growing. That’s why tall models and actresses all tell interviewers that they were tomboys and weren’t pretty when they were young — for a year or so in adolescence they were behind in the puberty race.

    Indeed. That’s one of the reasons why I tend to doubt Salma’s anecdote:

    “I was getting tested a lot because everybody was older and I was the skinny tomboy…

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/09/salma-hayek-boobs_n_1140150.html

    She simply doesn’t have that kind of body. Now, if, say, Paulina Porizkova started talking about how she was a skinny, all-knees-and-elbows tomboy in early adolescence, that would strike me as quite plausible.

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  • @Jefferson
    "The baseline may very well be over 5% (the general southern European percentage of Lebanese people of all faiths) , so altogether Lebanese Christians may have about 10% European ancestry."

    Let's deal with facts and not hypotheticals. The average Lebanese is only 5 percent European which means thr Lebanese are not the gold standard of Europeaness. Your average Dominican has more European ancestry than the Lebanese.

    "Keep in mind that European ancestry is not 100% European among southern Europeans. Italians are perhaps 15% of non-European (Semitic plus North African) origin."

    So the least European Italians are still way more genetically European than any Lebanese person, since nobody with 2 Lebanese parents would ever test only 15 percent MENA ancestry on AncestryByDNA and 23AndMe.

    "Also, reviewing the percentages, “10% Asia Minor” probably means Indo-European – like Kurds or Armenians, indigenous people to Asia minor."

    Armenians and Kurds are not Europeans.

    "The non-European background of Lebanese Christian is Caucasian. Semitic. It is silly to compare them to people of largely Native American ancestry with respect to “Euroepanness.”

    You said people who are part of Christianity have a lot culturally in common with Europeans.

    “The baseline may very well be over 5% (the general southern European percentage of Lebanese people of all faiths) , so altogether Lebanese Christians may have about 10% European ancestry.”

    Let’s deal with facts and not hypotheticals. The average Lebanese is only 5 percent European which means thr Lebanese are not the gold standard of Europeaness.

    The discussion is about Lebanese Christians, specifically. We already now that Lebanese Christians are 2% Western European, other Lebanese are not. So it is likely that Lebanese Christians also have more southern European ancestry, as well.

    “Keep in mind that European ancestry is not 100% European among southern Europeans. Italians are perhaps 15% of non-European (Semitic plus North African) origin.”

    So the least European Italians are still way more genetically European than any Lebanese person

    In slightly underestimated Middle-Eastern genetic contribution to Italy – it is about 20%, not 15%. The point is that the baseline for being a Mediterranean European is not something like 100% European ancestry but more like 80% European ancestry. So a Lebanese, being 20% European, is 1/4 as purely European as an Italian. He is like someone with 3 Arab grandparents and an Italian one.

    since nobody with 2 Lebanese parents would ever test only 15 percent MENA ancestry on AncestryByDNA and 23AndMe.

    Probably not. However, your original figures were misinterpreted. Here are detailed figures for various peoples in Europe and the Middle East:

    http://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml

    I, R1A and R1B are “European.” “G” is Caucasian/Indo-European (Armenian, Georgian, Greeks from Anatolia). These four groups are broadly European.

    “J” is Semitic, “T” is Middle Eastern/North African, “E” is North African (in the Middle East) and Balkan (in Europe), “L” is Middle-Eastern/Caucasian.

    Lebanese are about 20% European and 75% Middle Eastern.

    Palestinians are about 13% European.

    Saudis are about 10% European.

    Yemenese are about 0% European.

    Interestingly, Jordanians are about 27% European. The place must have had a lot of Roman settlement.

    Armenians and Kurds are not Europeans.

    I guess in your world Greek Anatolians, who are in the same genetic group as Armenians and Kurds, are also not Europeans? About 5-10 percent of Western Europeans have the ancestry primarily associated with Armenians and Kurds.

    If you define “European” strictly on geographic terms than Americans aren’t Europeans either. If in terms of origin – most ancestors of modern Europeans arrived in Europe during the Bronze Age. The “Armenian” and “Kurdish” types are ones who stayed behind or moved to the ME rather than to Europe during the migrations.

    “The non-European background of Lebanese Christian is Caucasian. Semitic. It is silly to compare them to people of largely Native American ancestry with respect to “Euroepanness.”

    You said people who are part of Christianity have a lot culturally in common with Europeans.

    They do. And? Do you really think that a non-European Caucasian Arab is somehow as different from a European as is an African or Native American?

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    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "They do. And? Do you really think that a non-European Caucasian Arab is somehow as different from a European as is an African or Native American?"

    Arabs are different enough in phenotype that they look quite different from a typical White American who is a German/English/Scottish/Irish mix.

    I have yet to see an Arab cab driver who can pass for a WASP.

    An Iranian in Los Angeles for example has a higher chance of being mistaken for a Mexican or an Armenian than be mistaken for a WASP.

    "The point is that the baseline for being a Mediterranean European is not something like 100% European ancestry but more like 80% European ancestry."

    I am a Mediterranean European and my 23AndMe results said I am 100 percent European. I got 6 percent Ashkenazi but they lumped that into the European catagory rather than Middle Eastern. But even if you exclude Ashkenazi that is still 94 percent European. I guarantee zero percent of Lebanon's population would score 94 percent European ancestry on a DNA test, let alone 100 percent European ancestry.

    "Lebanese are about 20% European and 75% Middle Eastern."

    The Lebanese are 5 percent European and 95 percent Middle Eastern.

    "He is like someone with 3 Arab grandparents and an Italian one."

    If you don't draw the majority of your ancestry back to Europe which is the gold standard of Whiteness than you are not White period. There is a reason why there are ZERO articles about the unbearable Whiteness of The Middle East and North Africa. There is a reason why the Left supports mass MENA immigration into Western nations while the Right doesn't. MENAs are not seen as White enough by both sides of the political aisle. For pro and con reasons both sides of the political aisle see mass MENA immigration as the Browning of North America and Europe.

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  • @The Anti-Gnostic
    I'm predicting some fallout from the Syrian conflict (which Bashar's Alawite-dominated regime appears to be winning) will be Syrians, Lebanese and Jordanians distancing themselves from "Arab."

    You can read about the history of Ba'athism and compare it to the modern tendency of Iberian Mexicans to appropriate aboriginal American identity, like iSteve's favorite calendar girl for Latino identity politics, Xochitl Hinojosa (on the left):

    http://www.mywedding.com/kevinlovesscarlett/images/28664_10100221108513640_7943127_60940858_5144828_n.jpg

    Here's a more recent pic:

    http://media4.s-nbcnews.com/j/newscms/2016_30/1639291/160726_amandarenteria_8a4442e4b92ceb0be3e52ad241c86dc8.nbcnews-ux-2880-1000.jpg

    Any way, Ba'athism comes across as being an earnest effort by smart, Orthodox Christian Marxists to forge a pan-Arabic identity. However, I think the Levantine Arab-speakers will come out of this as distinctly anti-Gulf Arab.

    Some people I went to law school with who were active in the Latino Law Students’ Association or Whatever and were keen to identify as mestizoid victims despite being wealthy and phenotypically (if not genotypically) pretty much entirely European, and many quite easy on the eyes to boot (i.e., they were treated like attractive white people their entire lives), were doing this stuff decades ago. I recall maybe two actual mestizo people in the organisation, and even they favoured their Caucasian ancestors’ phenotype, just as Hayek does.

    These are the kinds of struggles these people have, now that they have finished soaking up all the “affirmative action” to go to the front of the line for jobs and education for being ostensibly oppressed:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/veegirl1979/status/2163423577

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  • @Johnny789
    The most striking women that I've ever seen in person are/were NBA groupies.

    Baseball wives are a trip, too.

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  • @Steve Sailer
    Have you guys ever seen leading lady movie stars in person?

    They're all good looking the same way NBA stars are all tall.

    The most striking women that I’ve ever seen in person are/were NBA groupies.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Baseball wives are a trip, too.
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  • @guest
    You won't find, I don't think, anyone arguing "the shorter the better" here, so nevermind your reductio ad absurdum. The above poster merely said men prefer women not to be as tall as them. How much shorter they'd prefer them to be is up for debate, but I'd definitely say the preference runs from shorter than average to average height for a woman.

    Women are on average shorter than men, and not shortness persay but less heightedness is an attribute of femininity. Heterosexual men generally prefer women who are not taller, and therefore more masculine than, the average woman. This is born out in experience, where tall women are obviously not envied by their sex (unless they become models and get confused for paragons of beauty) nor prized by the opposite sex (unless they live in social circles where model looks are fashionable).

    See every Junior High School ever.

    “You won’t find, I don’t think, anyone arguing “the shorter the better” here, so nevermind your reductio ad absurdum.”

    Anon basically said Salma Hayek’s 5 foot 2 height makes her the ideal woman height wise. There are way more 5 foot 2 women in Mexico and Central America than in Northern Europe. Hence why Central America and Mexico never produce supermodels, because the women there are too short. So there is nothing absurd about what I said. What I said is 100 percent fact.

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  • @guest
    You won't find, I don't think, anyone arguing "the shorter the better" here, so nevermind your reductio ad absurdum. The above poster merely said men prefer women not to be as tall as them. How much shorter they'd prefer them to be is up for debate, but I'd definitely say the preference runs from shorter than average to average height for a woman.

    Women are on average shorter than men, and not shortness persay but less heightedness is an attribute of femininity. Heterosexual men generally prefer women who are not taller, and therefore more masculine than, the average woman. This is born out in experience, where tall women are obviously not envied by their sex (unless they become models and get confused for paragons of beauty) nor prized by the opposite sex (unless they live in social circles where model looks are fashionable).

    See every Junior High School ever.

    Long-leggedness is an attribute of sexiness in both sexes. Long legs imply a healthy, well-fed childhood, which implies a healthy, well-fed adulthood, which in turn implies healthy, well-fed children.

    Junior high school is when girls who go through puberty relatively early stop growing. Girls who go through puberty later keep growing. That’s why tall models and actresses all tell interviewers that they were tomboys and weren’t pretty when they were young — for a year or so in adolescence they were behind in the puberty race.

    But it doesn’t make much difference outside of junior high school.

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    • Agree: Whoever
    • Replies: @syonredux

    Junior high school is when girls who go through puberty relatively early stop growing. Girls who go through puberty later keep growing. That’s why tall models and actresses all tell interviewers that they were tomboys and weren’t pretty when they were young — for a year or so in adolescence they were behind in the puberty race.

     

    Indeed. That's one of the reasons why I tend to doubt Salma's anecdote:

    “I was getting tested a lot because everybody was older and I was the skinny tomboy…
     
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/09/salma-hayek-boobs_n_1140150.html


    She simply doesn't have that kind of body. Now, if, say, Paulina Porizkova started talking about how she was a skinny, all-knees-and-elbows tomboy in early adolescence, that would strike me as quite plausible.
    , @guest
    I haven't done extensive research on the aesthetics of leg length. But I can say long-leggedness in itself isn't attractive, just like large breasts aren't. Because fat women have large breasts, and they aren't necessarily more attractive for that fact. Likewise, tall women have long legs, but we ought not to assume people favor above average height in women for that fact. It would be proportional length, if length is in fact prized. Shapeliness is more important, in any case.

    In any case, model-type legs, which are disproportionately long, are decidedly unattractive. They have no feminine shape, and are gangly. Like with everything else in High Fashion, and increasingly in the world at large, we confuse resemblance to adolescent males with feminine beauty.

    I could as easily have said high school as junior high. The point is pubescent kids are better at picking out natural beauty than those of us corrupted by our upside-down culture. Tall women aren't favored in any sector of heterosexual male society, but especially not in adolescence and early adulthood.

    Sexual maturity isn't the issue. Or maybe it is, in the sense that the secondary sexual characteristics of model-types never fully form. If they do, the woman in question wouldn't be alloweded to be a model. (Or not a High Fashion model, anyway.)

    When models talk of their unhappy adolescences on chat shows, we're supposed to shake our heads, laugh, and not really believe them. Or imagine they bloomed after school; I don't know which, maybe both. But I believe every model who says she was a tomboy and/or ugly duckling in school because they still are! Their looks didn't mature. Instead, they were thrown into a different world, with different standards, where ugly tomboys are appreciated.
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  • @Jefferson
    "Most men who are not gay nor bi prefer women who look like women, and who are not as tall as they are."

    If the shorter a woman is the more feminine looking she is, are you saying Swedish women for example look more masculine than Guatemalan women?

    If marrying the shortest woman you can find that is not yet legally a midget should be your goal in life, than forget about the blonde Nordic Aryan Goddesses of Northern Europe and instead look for a wife who is either from Mexico, Peru, Bolivia, Central America, East Asia, or Southeast Asia.

    You won’t find, I don’t think, anyone arguing “the shorter the better” here, so nevermind your reductio ad absurdum. The above poster merely said men prefer women not to be as tall as them. How much shorter they’d prefer them to be is up for debate, but I’d definitely say the preference runs from shorter than average to average height for a woman.

    Women are on average shorter than men, and not shortness persay but less heightedness is an attribute of femininity. Heterosexual men generally prefer women who are not taller, and therefore more masculine than, the average woman. This is born out in experience, where tall women are obviously not envied by their sex (unless they become models and get confused for paragons of beauty) nor prized by the opposite sex (unless they live in social circles where model looks are fashionable).

    See every Junior High School ever.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Long-leggedness is an attribute of sexiness in both sexes. Long legs imply a healthy, well-fed childhood, which implies a healthy, well-fed adulthood, which in turn implies healthy, well-fed children.

    Junior high school is when girls who go through puberty relatively early stop growing. Girls who go through puberty later keep growing. That's why tall models and actresses all tell interviewers that they were tomboys and weren't pretty when they were young -- for a year or so in adolescence they were behind in the puberty race.

    But it doesn't make much difference outside of junior high school.

    , @Jefferson
    "You won’t find, I don’t think, anyone arguing “the shorter the better” here, so nevermind your reductio ad absurdum."

    Anon basically said Salma Hayek's 5 foot 2 height makes her the ideal woman height wise. There are way more 5 foot 2 women in Mexico and Central America than in Northern Europe. Hence why Central America and Mexico never produce supermodels, because the women there are too short. So there is nothing absurd about what I said. What I said is 100 percent fact.
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  • @AP

    “It’s only 2%, but it is not insignificant.”

    2 percent is insignificant.
     
    The baseline may very well be over 5% (the general southern European percentage of Lebanese people of all faiths) , so altogether Lebanese Christians may have about 10% European ancestry.

    Keep in mind that European ancestry is not 100% European among southern Europeans. Italians are perhaps 15% of non-European (Semitic plus North African) origin.

    “2. Christianity is a central building block of European culture. Even though a Lebanese Christian is primary Arabic genetically, culturally he has much in common with Europeans.”

    And Latin Americans being overwhelmingly Christians also have much culturally in common with Europeans as well.
     
    The non-European background of Lebanese Christian is Caucasian. Semitic. It is silly to compare them to people of largely Native American ancestry with respect to "Euroepanness."

    Also, reviewing the percentages, "10% Asia Minor" probably means Indo-European - like Kurds or Armenians, indigenous people to Asia minor.

    “The baseline may very well be over 5% (the general southern European percentage of Lebanese people of all faiths) , so altogether Lebanese Christians may have about 10% European ancestry.”

    Let’s deal with facts and not hypotheticals. The average Lebanese is only 5 percent European which means the Lebanese are not the gold standard of Europeaness. Your average Dominican has more European ancestry than the Lebanese.

    “Keep in mind that European ancestry is not 100% European among southern Europeans. Italians are perhaps 15% of non-European (Semitic plus North African) origin.”

    So the least European Italians are still way more genetically European than any Lebanese person, since nobody with 2 Lebanese parents would ever test only 15 percent MENA ancestry on AncestryByDNA and 23AndMe.

    “Also, reviewing the percentages, “10% Asia Minor” probably means Indo-European – like Kurds or Armenians, indigenous people to Asia minor.”

    Armenians and Kurds are not Europeans.

    “The non-European background of Lebanese Christian is Caucasian. Semitic. It is silly to compare them to people of largely Native American ancestry with respect to “Euroepanness.”

    You said people who are part of Christianity have a lot culturally in common with Europeans.

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  • @Anon
    Most men who are not gay nor bi prefer women who look like women, and who are not as tall as they are. Francois Pinault is more like the overwhelming majority of heterosexual men in his preferences.

    “Most men who are not gay nor bi prefer women who look like women, and who are not as tall as they are.”

    If the shorter a woman is the more feminine looking she is, are you saying Swedish women for example look more masculine than Guatemalan women?

    If marrying the shortest woman you can find that is not yet legally a midget should be your goal in life, than forget about the blonde Nordic Aryan Goddesses of Northern Europe and instead look for a wife who is either from Mexico, Peru, Bolivia, Central America, East Asia, or Southeast Asia.

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    • Replies: @guest
    You won't find, I don't think, anyone arguing "the shorter the better" here, so nevermind your reductio ad absurdum. The above poster merely said men prefer women not to be as tall as them. How much shorter they'd prefer them to be is up for debate, but I'd definitely say the preference runs from shorter than average to average height for a woman.

    Women are on average shorter than men, and not shortness persay but less heightedness is an attribute of femininity. Heterosexual men generally prefer women who are not taller, and therefore more masculine than, the average woman. This is born out in experience, where tall women are obviously not envied by their sex (unless they become models and get confused for paragons of beauty) nor prized by the opposite sex (unless they live in social circles where model looks are fashionable).

    See every Junior High School ever.

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  • @AP

    “It’s only 2%, but it is not insignificant.”

    2 percent is insignificant.
     
    The baseline may very well be over 5% (the general southern European percentage of Lebanese people of all faiths) , so altogether Lebanese Christians may have about 10% European ancestry.

    Keep in mind that European ancestry is not 100% European among southern Europeans. Italians are perhaps 15% of non-European (Semitic plus North African) origin.

    “2. Christianity is a central building block of European culture. Even though a Lebanese Christian is primary Arabic genetically, culturally he has much in common with Europeans.”

    And Latin Americans being overwhelmingly Christians also have much culturally in common with Europeans as well.
     
    The non-European background of Lebanese Christian is Caucasian. Semitic. It is silly to compare them to people of largely Native American ancestry with respect to "Euroepanness."

    Also, reviewing the percentages, "10% Asia Minor" probably means Indo-European - like Kurds or Armenians, indigenous people to Asia minor.

    “The baseline may very well be over 5% (the general southern European percentage of Lebanese people of all faiths) , so altogether Lebanese Christians may have about 10% European ancestry.”

    Let’s deal with facts and not hypotheticals. The average Lebanese is only 5 percent European which means thr Lebanese are not the gold standard of Europeaness. Your average Dominican has more European ancestry than the Lebanese.

    “Keep in mind that European ancestry is not 100% European among southern Europeans. Italians are perhaps 15% of non-European (Semitic plus North African) origin.”

    So the least European Italians are still way more genetically European than any Lebanese person, since nobody with 2 Lebanese parents would ever test only 15 percent MENA ancestry on AncestryByDNA and 23AndMe.

    “Also, reviewing the percentages, “10% Asia Minor” probably means Indo-European – like Kurds or Armenians, indigenous people to Asia minor.”

    Armenians and Kurds are not Europeans.

    “The non-European background of Lebanese Christian is Caucasian. Semitic. It is silly to compare them to people of largely Native American ancestry with respect to “Euroepanness.”

    You said people who are part of Christianity have a lot culturally in common with Europeans.

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    • Replies: @AP

    “The baseline may very well be over 5% (the general southern European percentage of Lebanese people of all faiths) , so altogether Lebanese Christians may have about 10% European ancestry.”

    Let’s deal with facts and not hypotheticals. The average Lebanese is only 5 percent European which means thr Lebanese are not the gold standard of Europeaness.
     
    The discussion is about Lebanese Christians, specifically. We already now that Lebanese Christians are 2% Western European, other Lebanese are not. So it is likely that Lebanese Christians also have more southern European ancestry, as well.

    “Keep in mind that European ancestry is not 100% European among southern Europeans. Italians are perhaps 15% of non-European (Semitic plus North African) origin.”

    So the least European Italians are still way more genetically European than any Lebanese person
     
    In slightly underestimated Middle-Eastern genetic contribution to Italy - it is about 20%, not 15%. The point is that the baseline for being a Mediterranean European is not something like 100% European ancestry but more like 80% European ancestry. So a Lebanese, being 20% European, is 1/4 as purely European as an Italian. He is like someone with 3 Arab grandparents and an Italian one.

    since nobody with 2 Lebanese parents would ever test only 15 percent MENA ancestry on AncestryByDNA and 23AndMe.
     
    Probably not. However, your original figures were misinterpreted. Here are detailed figures for various peoples in Europe and the Middle East:

    http://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml

    I, R1A and R1B are "European." "G" is Caucasian/Indo-European (Armenian, Georgian, Greeks from Anatolia). These four groups are broadly European.

    "J" is Semitic, "T" is Middle Eastern/North African, "E" is North African (in the Middle East) and Balkan (in Europe), "L" is Middle-Eastern/Caucasian.

    Lebanese are about 20% European and 75% Middle Eastern.

    Palestinians are about 13% European.

    Saudis are about 10% European.

    Yemenese are about 0% European.

    Interestingly, Jordanians are about 27% European. The place must have had a lot of Roman settlement.

    Armenians and Kurds are not Europeans.
     
    I guess in your world Greek Anatolians, who are in the same genetic group as Armenians and Kurds, are also not Europeans? About 5-10 percent of Western Europeans have the ancestry primarily associated with Armenians and Kurds.

    If you define "European" strictly on geographic terms than Americans aren't Europeans either. If in terms of origin - most ancestors of modern Europeans arrived in Europe during the Bronze Age. The "Armenian" and "Kurdish" types are ones who stayed behind or moved to the ME rather than to Europe during the migrations.

    “The non-European background of Lebanese Christian is Caucasian. Semitic. It is silly to compare them to people of largely Native American ancestry with respect to “Euroepanness.”

    You said people who are part of Christianity have a lot culturally in common with Europeans.
     
    They do. And? Do you really think that a non-European Caucasian Arab is somehow as different from a European as is an African or Native American?
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  • @slumber_j
    Son of Bob Abboud? Who was so oppressed he forced my father out of a job at First Chicago?

    The Lebanese are not a particularly disadvantaged people.

    You can take some vicarious revenge in pondering his brief tenure working for Armand Hammer at Oxy Pete. My uncle went with his boss for a year or so under Hammer. All he would say is that Armand Hammer isn’t like they make him seem on TV.

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  • @syonredux

    Most men who are not gay nor bi prefer women who look like women, and who are not as tall as they are. Francois Pinault is more like the overwhelming majority of heterosexual men in his preferences.
     
    And his poor taste means inferior offspring.....

    The girl has billionaires on both sides of her family. She’ll probably end up alright.

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  • @syonredux

    I don’t think you’re thinking “eugenically”.
     
    Of course I am. Ask any parent: Do you want your children to be tall or short?

    And, since I'm not a cuck, I think that European men should reproduce with European women.

    “Do you want your children to be tall or short?”

    That’s not the central question of eugenics, thank God. If it were, we’d be breeding a race of tall men, okay. But what does it profit a man to have all the height in the world if he’s got nothing but ugly women to pursue?

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    “Do you want your children to be tall or short?”

    That’s not the central question of eugenics, thank God.
     
    Dunno. Never met anyone who wants to have short kids....

    If it were, we’d be breeding a race of tall men, okay. But what does it profit a man to have all the height in the world if he’s got nothing but ugly women to pursue?
     
    Dunno. The girls in the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit issue look pretty good to me:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAO60aTAyEA
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  • @syonredux

    Evangelista doesn’t look like a 14 year old boy but she does look masculine.
     
    Not compared to men....

    “Not compared to men”

    Why would we compare her to men? I mean those of us who aren’t homosexual fashion designers or casting agents.

    As I was saying in reply to another poster, we say masculine when to be more precise would should say “relatively masculinized.” Meaning more masculine than the average woman. Attractive women, on the other hand, are more feminine than the average woman.

    There does come a point where femininity has diminishing returns. Extreme forms are likely to come off too childlike or just plain freakish. But generally speaking, more feminine is better and more masculine is worse. Heterosexual males and normal women alike tend to agree.

    Height is one of those qualities that tends to make you come off as more masculine, and therefore less attractive, the higher you go. Which is why 5’10″ women don’t have their pick in regular society (ask one), as opposed to celebrity, social x-ray, ruling elite society, which welcomes beanpoles.

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  • @Hare Krishna
    I wouldn't consider Melania to be masculine. Too tall, yes. But feminine.
    I wouldn't consider Gisele Bundchen to be masculine either.

    “I wouldn’t consider Melania to be masculine”

    Not compared to a man. But she is more masculine than your average woman, which is why she got to be a model. Attractive women should be more feminine than average, by definition.

    That’s what I mean when I call these women masculine. Their features are on the masculine end of femininity. In cases like Gisele, they are on the extreme masculine end, bordering on looking like a transsexual. That’s not the case with Melania.

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  • @Anonymous
    Crawford and Schiffer represented the era of backlash against the beauty standards set in the late '60s, and going back to the standards of beauty of a healthier era - which coincided with the Reagan backlash against the political and cultural standards also set in the late '60s. Didn't last. Just like the political backlash didn't last. And the androgyny is still pretty dominant today. Look at the crap that Kate Upton has gotten from Karl Lagerfeld and other gay men who run fashion.

    Evangelista doesn't look like a 14 year old boy but she does look masculine.

    They may have been marketed as a backlash. I wasn’t aware enough at the time so I don’t know. Certainly the supermodel phenomenon fooled a lot of people. But they weren’t in actuality a backlash. They represented those standards. At best they were slightly more attractive than average models.

    I have no idea how so many straight men were fooled into thinking Cindy Crawford is feminine. Claudia Schiffer at least had large, natural looking breasts. But the rest of her was no different.

    Kate Upton is an annoying case to me. She hits the weight issue and breast size issue perfectly, but she’s not the most womanly woman. No ass, not a pretty face. I couldn’t care less whether she gets to be a model or not. I certainly can’t bring myself to care on account of her body weight percentage or the largeness of her bosom.

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  • @syonredux

    Trump is 6’2″. Hayek’s husband appears to be shorter, and not much taller than Hayek. He may be shorter than Evangelista or similar to her in height. Relative height matters – most men are not very attracted to women who are similar or greater to themselves in height. Also Evangelista has the more androgynous body type that models have compared to the curvier feminine body type of Hayek. It’s not odd that Hayek’s husband would choose a woman shorter than himself with a curvier body than a tall model competing with him in height.
     
    François-Henri Pinault is simply not thinking eugenically. He's short. Therefore, he needs to procreate with a woman who is at least as tall as he is, and not an Arab-Mexican dwarfette....

    Trump's choice in breeding stock (tall and European) reveals his innate sense of what is right and good....

    François-Henri Pinault is simply not thinking eugenically.

    Pinault already has children with a French ex-wife (according to Wikipedia). Assuming he’s straight and is looking for companionship in a mate, and not mere pump-dump-and-support Lebensborn vessels (which in that case should be fit young lasses), I give you this visual comparison: Linda Evangelista 2016 (top row!) vs. Salma Hayek 2016.

    Even though Hayek has a comically stumpy figure, she blows away Evangelista in the Cialis sweepstakes. Pinault himself is no Adonis. Here’s the little dude with Hayek and Six Flags’ Mr. Six, who is 6’3”.

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    Pinault already has children with a French ex-wife (according to Wikipedia). Assuming he’s straight and is looking for companionship in a mate, and not mere pump-dump-and-support Lebensborn vessels (which in that case should be fit young lasses), I give you this visual comparison: Linda Evangelista 2016 (top row!) vs. Salma Hayek 2016.
     
    Evangelista's decadent lifestyle has taken its toll.....
    , @Johnny789
    Linda should never have grown her hair long is all I gotta say.
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  • @Kyle McKenna

    Would women who look like young teenage boys, the beauty standard in the fashion industry ever since the late 1960s due to the tastes of the men who run it, be the best breeding stock of all to you?
    ...“Eugenics” sounds an awful lot like gay misogyny.
     
    That's just goofy. A couple top models resembled teenaged boys--a little--when they were made up that way. Kate Moss for example. Meanwhile Christie Brinkley, Elle Macpherson, Cindy Crawford, Claudia Schiffer, Christy Turlington, Gisele Bundchen, Naomi Campbell, Linda Evangelista, and pretty much every other top model from the era indicate that you need new spectacles, or something. And preferring attractive women--even tall ones--hardly indicates "gay misogyny". You come across as rather messed up.

    You are severely out of touch with the world of High Fashion. I’m not intimately familiar with all the Big Names you drop, but you must realize those are the ones the media tried to sell to the general public and they had to at least try to make them look like actual women. They didn’t actually pick feminine women to be supermodels , because they couldn’t, because that goes against everything they believe. But they did attempt with great gusto and apparently a lot of success to pass them off as such.

    Lighting, posing, photography tricks, make-up, costumes, take them away and you’re left overwhelmingly with grown woman versions of adolescent boys. Take a look at Cindy Crawford, Elle Macpherson, Gisele Brady, and probably the rest of them (I can’t say for sure, because I haven’t studied them all in-depth) in candid shots, preferably on the beach. You’ll find the sane things: tall, broad shoulders, gangly limbs, skinnier than an adult woman should be, straight up-and-down body, no hips or ass to speak of, either no breasts or likely implants (occasionally real, woman-type breasts, but on manly bodies), high cheek bones (which the fashion industry has tricked everyone into thinking is feminine), square or at least strong jaws, protruding foreheads, caveman brows.

    I could go on and on. It’s much worse in the normal, day to day fashion world. The ones the general public doesn’t get to see are allowed to be as adolescent boy-like as possible.

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  • @Steve Sailer
    Have you guys ever seen leading lady movie stars in person?

    They're all good looking the same way NBA stars are all tall.

    “They’re all good looking the same way NBA stars are tall”

    Not the same way. “Tall” is a relative term, but once you’ve set the average height of the population to which you’re comparing them, in this case let’s say U.S. adult males, the issue becomes inarguable. But with “good looking,” there’s a lot of room for me to have to guess what you mean. Because people do not use “good looking” these days with enough consistency.

    My instinct is to think at least “sexually attractive to normal, heterosexual members of the opposite sex,” if not “approaching the ideal of feminine beauty.” But it’s common to think of women with striking or arresting features–useful for movie actresses–as attractive, but I think that flies in the face of classic standards of beauty. Sometimes they use it for women who are merely interesting looking.

    Then there are of course women who would be attractive were they not women and I didn’t have to judge them as women. This hasn’t taken over Hollywood yet, but it has conquered fashion and it continues to creep into the wider culture. I predict it will render discussion of good looks nearly impossible in traditional terms a couple of generations from now.

    I have seen famous women before. They were pleasant to look at, but I wouldn’t say they were as beautiful as I g ad supposed. And that’s what I look for from what are supposed to be the best looking women in the world: actual, feminine beauty. Not just above average looks.

    For one thing, they were usually over the hill or getting there. I could visit a random college campus and find better looking women, to my taste at least.

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  • To be fair, almost everybody sounds like an incoherent idiot when reporters publish verbatim conversations.

    Just be glad you’re not a lawyer being transcribed at hearings and depositions.

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  • @Anonymous
    Now, if this had been Lucy Liu rather than Salma Hayek, I wonder if there'd be as much hostility from the Peanut Gallery here, given how the short stature of Asians somehow gets a pass here (maybe because so many Asian women - although not Ms. Liu - look like 12 year old boys, bringing out the latent Gary Glitter that lurks in most alt-righters...)

    Have you guys ever seen leading lady movie stars in person?

    They’re all good looking the same way NBA stars are all tall.

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    • Replies: @guest
    "They're all good looking the same way NBA stars are tall"

    Not the same way. "Tall" is a relative term, but once you've set the average height of the population to which you're comparing them, in this case let's say U.S. adult males, the issue becomes inarguable. But with "good looking," there's a lot of room for me to have to guess what you mean. Because people do not use "good looking" these days with enough consistency.

    My instinct is to think at least "sexually attractive to normal, heterosexual members of the opposite sex," if not "approaching the ideal of feminine beauty." But it's common to think of women with striking or arresting features--useful for movie actresses--as attractive, but I think that flies in the face of classic standards of beauty. Sometimes they use it for women who are merely interesting looking.

    Then there are of course women who would be attractive were they not women and I didn't have to judge them as women. This hasn't taken over Hollywood yet, but it has conquered fashion and it continues to creep into the wider culture. I predict it will render discussion of good looks nearly impossible in traditional terms a couple of generations from now.

    I have seen famous women before. They were pleasant to look at, but I wouldn't say they were as beautiful as I g ad supposed. And that's what I look for from what are supposed to be the best looking women in the world: actual, feminine beauty. Not just above average looks.

    For one thing, they were usually over the hill or getting there. I could visit a random college campus and find better looking women, to my taste at least.
    , @Johnny789
    The most striking women that I've ever seen in person are/were NBA groupies.
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  • Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @syonredux

    “His poor taste means inferior offspring”

    Oh, what a brave new world of superior, androgenous, European Thems you’d breed.
     
    As opposed to Arab-Mexican dwarfs.......

    Now, if this had been Lucy Liu rather than Salma Hayek, I wonder if there’d be as much hostility from the Peanut Gallery here, given how the short stature of Asians somehow gets a pass here (maybe because so many Asian women – although not Ms. Liu – look like 12 year old boys, bringing out the latent Gary Glitter that lurks in most alt-righters…)

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Have you guys ever seen leading lady movie stars in person?

    They're all good looking the same way NBA stars are all tall.

    , @syonredux

    Now, if this had been Lucy Liu rather than Salma Hayek, I wonder if there’d be as much hostility from the Peanut Gallery here, given how the short stature of Asians somehow gets a pass here
     
    Let's see, using the Trumpometer on Lucy Liu:

    Height: 5ft 1.75in (according to http://www.celebheights.com/)

    Ancestry: East Asian

    So, no, Lucy Liu loses out to chicks who are tall and European.
    , @attilathehen
    Asian women (along with black women) don't count. Only Caucasian/European women are considered beautiful. Asian women are busy whitening their skin, getting eyelid surgery and lightening their hair. If Asian women are so desired, why do they imitate white women? Black women do the same thing. Their hair weaves are always straight hair, they have their noses fixed.
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  • @syonredux

    I don’t think you’re thinking “eugenically”.
     
    Of course I am. Ask any parent: Do you want your children to be tall or short?

    And, since I'm not a cuck, I think that European men should reproduce with European women.

    There are other names for a man who prefers women who looks like androgynous adolescents besides “cuck”. Trapped in the closet?

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    There are other names for a man who prefers women who looks like androgynous adolescents besides “cuck”. Trapped in the closet?
     
    Dear fellow, the cuck designation refers to the fact that Salma is a Mexican-Arab, not to the fact that she is vertically challenged.

    Trump reproduces only with Europeans. Lesser breeds need not apply.

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  • @Kyle McKenna

    Would women who look like young teenage boys, the beauty standard in the fashion industry ever since the late 1960s due to the tastes of the men who run it, be the best breeding stock of all to you?
    ...“Eugenics” sounds an awful lot like gay misogyny.
     
    That's just goofy. A couple top models resembled teenaged boys--a little--when they were made up that way. Kate Moss for example. Meanwhile Christie Brinkley, Elle Macpherson, Cindy Crawford, Claudia Schiffer, Christy Turlington, Gisele Bundchen, Naomi Campbell, Linda Evangelista, and pretty much every other top model from the era indicate that you need new spectacles, or something. And preferring attractive women--even tall ones--hardly indicates "gay misogyny". You come across as rather messed up.

    That’s just goofy. A couple top models resembled teenaged boys–a little–when they were made up that way. Kate Moss for example. Meanwhile Christie Brinkley, Elle Macpherson, Cindy Crawford, Claudia Schiffer, Christy Turlington, Gisele Bundchen, Naomi Campbell, Linda Evangelista, and pretty much every other top model from the era indicate that you need new spectacles, or something.

    Indeed:

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  • @Anonymous
    Crawford and Schiffer represented the era of backlash against the beauty standards set in the late '60s, and going back to the standards of beauty of a healthier era - which coincided with the Reagan backlash against the political and cultural standards also set in the late '60s. Didn't last. Just like the political backlash didn't last. And the androgyny is still pretty dominant today. Look at the crap that Kate Upton has gotten from Karl Lagerfeld and other gay men who run fashion.

    Evangelista doesn't look like a 14 year old boy but she does look masculine.

    Evangelista doesn’t look like a 14 year old boy but she does look masculine.

    Not compared to men….

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    • Replies: @guest
    "Not compared to men"

    Why would we compare her to men? I mean those of us who aren't homosexual fashion designers or casting agents.

    As I was saying in reply to another poster, we say masculine when to be more precise would should say "relatively masculinized." Meaning more masculine than the average woman. Attractive women, on the other hand, are more feminine than the average woman.

    There does come a point where femininity has diminishing returns. Extreme forms are likely to come off too childlike or just plain freakish. But generally speaking, more feminine is better and more masculine is worse. Heterosexual males and normal women alike tend to agree.

    Height is one of those qualities that tends to make you come off as more masculine, and therefore less attractive, the higher you go. Which is why 5'10" women don't have their pick in regular society (ask one), as opposed to celebrity, social x-ray, ruling elite society, which welcomes beanpoles.
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  • @guest
    I looked up Linda Evangelista's height out of curiosity, and she's 5'10". That's way more than enough. All things being equal, I wouldn't know which to prefer eugenically, 5'2" or 5'10". Depends on the man, I suppose. But there are other, more important qualities lacking in Linda. Women resembling men don't tend to produce many babies.

    You vastly overrate the importance of height, for mysterious reasons. I'm fine with the European part, if you are of European descent and want your kids to look European. But otherwise, that has little to do with good breeding stock, either.

    Traditionally, Europeans have bred for strength in men and prettiness in women. It has served us well. (Prettiness was not defined as being taller than other women.)

    I looked up Linda Evangelista’s height out of curiosity, and she’s 5’10″. That’s way more than enough.

    Dunno. If you are a 6’2 man, it sounds just about right…..

    All things being equal, I wouldn’t know which to prefer eugenically, 5’2″ or 5’10″

    5’10. Unless you want short kids….

    traditionally, Europeans have bred for strength in men and prettiness in women. It has served us well. (Prettiness was not defined as being taller than other women.)

    Not sure how “strong” the male offspring will be if the mothers are diminutive….

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  • @Travis
    Good point, but most Latin Americans self identify as white which distorts the reality.
    Tom Brady's wife Gisele Bündchen likely is 95% European. The descendants of European immigrants, particularly the Germans, Italians and Poles, are mainly concentrated in the southern part of the country, in the states of Rio Grande do Sul, Santa Catarina, Paraná, and the most populous, São Paulo; these states have a large majority of people of European descent

    50% of Mexicans self identify as white and most of them are a third Amerindian....but about 10% of Mexican whites are 90% European. Most of the migrants we get from Mexico are 50% Amerindian. The white ones are after wealthy and less likely to leave Mexico.

    Well considering how often Turkics and Turanids could pass for full blooded Europeans I definitely think that self identified whites in Latin American should be presumed to be light skinned octoroons or castizos unless proven otherwise through a DNA test, since ancestral records can be fudged as well.

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  • @guest
    "His poor taste means inferior offspring"

    Oh, what a brave new world of superior, androgenous, European Thems you'd breed.

    “His poor taste means inferior offspring”

    Oh, what a brave new world of superior, androgenous, European Thems you’d breed.

    As opposed to Arab-Mexican dwarfs…….

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Now, if this had been Lucy Liu rather than Salma Hayek, I wonder if there'd be as much hostility from the Peanut Gallery here, given how the short stature of Asians somehow gets a pass here (maybe because so many Asian women - although not Ms. Liu - look like 12 year old boys, bringing out the latent Gary Glitter that lurks in most alt-righters...)
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  • @Anonymous
    I don't think you're thinking "eugenically". In any case, "eugenic" ceases to be meaningful in these sorts of discussions, and simply serves as a stand in for subjective preference.

    By your reasoning, men should take 10 ft. tall women as brides.

    Men tend to prefer shorter more feminine women over tall androgynous ones.

    Trump's children are pretty unremarkable. None of them have accomplished anything on their own in a separate field. They're known for appearing on The Apprentice with their father and being involved in their father's business, which is based on his personal celebrity.

    I don’t think you’re thinking “eugenically”.

    Of course I am. Ask any parent: Do you want your children to be tall or short?

    And, since I’m not a cuck, I think that European men should reproduce with European women.

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    • Replies: @Hare Krishna
    There are other names for a man who prefers women who looks like androgynous adolescents besides "cuck". Trapped in the closet?
    , @guest
    "Do you want your children to be tall or short?"

    That's not the central question of eugenics, thank God. If it were, we'd be breeding a race of tall men, okay. But what does it profit a man to have all the height in the world if he's got nothing but ugly women to pursue?
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  • @Anonymous
    Men prefer curvier women who look like women because said body structure is more conducive to having children, or is viewed as such.

    Men prefer curvier women who look like women because said body structure is more conducive to having children, or is viewed as such.

    And eugenically minded European men like Trump prefer tall European women. Why?

    1. Because it means purely European offspring

    2. Because it increases the odds for tall offspring

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  • @Anonymous
    Crawford and Schiffer represented the era of backlash against the beauty standards set in the late '60s, and going back to the standards of beauty of a healthier era - which coincided with the Reagan backlash against the political and cultural standards also set in the late '60s. Didn't last. Just like the political backlash didn't last. And the androgyny is still pretty dominant today. Look at the crap that Kate Upton has gotten from Karl Lagerfeld and other gay men who run fashion.

    Evangelista doesn't look like a 14 year old boy but she does look masculine.

    Yeah I may have put Linda Evangelista on the wrong list. My bad. Karl Lagerfeld is a walking horror show who would probably be a horror show no matter what sexuality.

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  • @guest
    You have to weigh sexual attraction with social gamesmanship. You marry not to only to satisfy your libido but to look good in your circle. If this were a different era I could see Trump breeding with more feminine women. But it is now, and the dominant female type is the model type: minimally to moderately masculinized social x-rays.

    I haven't gone through Trump's menagerie with a fine-toothed comb, and am not old enough to remember all his tabloid romances. But Melania, who benefits by comparison to her predecessor, is an actual model. She fits the type. Men like Trump are expected to wed fashionable body types.

    I have to believe that, otherwise all these powerful men marrying shemales have to be homos. Not that Melania is a shemale, but Tom Brady's wife, for instance, is. Is Brady a homo? Or George Clooney, who's wife doesn't look like a man persay but is ugly? That came up on another thread not long ago. Maybe, maybe not. But they could easily be marrying for appearances. Sorta like how Bill Clinton married for power.

    I wouldn’t consider Melania to be masculine. Too tall, yes. But feminine.
    I wouldn’t consider Gisele Bundchen to be masculine either.

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    • Replies: @guest
    "I wouldn't consider Melania to be masculine"

    Not compared to a man. But she is more masculine than your average woman, which is why she got to be a model. Attractive women should be more feminine than average, by definition.

    That's what I mean when I call these women masculine. Their features are on the masculine end of femininity. In cases like Gisele, they are on the extreme masculine end, bordering on looking like a transsexual. That's not the case with Melania.
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  • Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Kyle McKenna

    Would women who look like young teenage boys, the beauty standard in the fashion industry ever since the late 1960s due to the tastes of the men who run it, be the best breeding stock of all to you?
    ...“Eugenics” sounds an awful lot like gay misogyny.
     
    That's just goofy. A couple top models resembled teenaged boys--a little--when they were made up that way. Kate Moss for example. Meanwhile Christie Brinkley, Elle Macpherson, Cindy Crawford, Claudia Schiffer, Christy Turlington, Gisele Bundchen, Naomi Campbell, Linda Evangelista, and pretty much every other top model from the era indicate that you need new spectacles, or something. And preferring attractive women--even tall ones--hardly indicates "gay misogyny". You come across as rather messed up.

    Crawford and Schiffer represented the era of backlash against the beauty standards set in the late ’60s, and going back to the standards of beauty of a healthier era – which coincided with the Reagan backlash against the political and cultural standards also set in the late ’60s. Didn’t last. Just like the political backlash didn’t last. And the androgyny is still pretty dominant today. Look at the crap that Kate Upton has gotten from Karl Lagerfeld and other gay men who run fashion.

    Evangelista doesn’t look like a 14 year old boy but she does look masculine.

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    • Replies: @Kyle McKenna
    Yeah I may have put Linda Evangelista on the wrong list. My bad. Karl Lagerfeld is a walking horror show who would probably be a horror show no matter what sexuality.
    , @syonredux

    Evangelista doesn’t look like a 14 year old boy but she does look masculine.
     
    Not compared to men....
    , @guest
    They may have been marketed as a backlash. I wasn't aware enough at the time so I don't know. Certainly the supermodel phenomenon fooled a lot of people. But they weren't in actuality a backlash. They represented those standards. At best they were slightly more attractive than average models.

    I have no idea how so many straight men were fooled into thinking Cindy Crawford is feminine. Claudia Schiffer at least had large, natural looking breasts. But the rest of her was no different.

    Kate Upton is an annoying case to me. She hits the weight issue and breast size issue perfectly, but she's not the most womanly woman. No ass, not a pretty face. I couldn't care less whether she gets to be a model or not. I certainly can't bring myself to care on account of her body weight percentage or the largeness of her bosom.

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  • @For what it's worth
    For what it's worth, I think both MacLaine/Hayek and Williams made some substantive points. One side effectively said that you can ignore everything in your environment when establishing your sense of self (does anyone here really affirm that?), but they did so in an effort to assert the individual's intrinsic worth beyond social/racial/ethnic/gender identities (I think a lot of us here would defend the notion of such intrinsic worth), while the other side said that black women in America have it worse, on average, than white women (who here would actually deny that?). Yeah, the argument got caught in the crosshairs of ideology and personal status-jockeying, but I think both sides had a point.

    On the whole, despite the patently over-compensating "I'm the hottest B on the planet," I think Williams was the more reasonable and honest participant in the conversation, insofar as she explicitly said both sides had a point, and she wasn't trying to get personal.

    '"What does this mean, ‘speak over?’” Hayek asked."

    Yeah, I know most people here are sick of hearing the concept of "speaking over," but you have to admit, if there were ever a clearer instance of it, Hayek spoke right on over Williams. Spoke and trounced over her. Maybe good for the peanut gallery here, but I bet it sucked for Williams. Whoo.

    Jessica Williams seems like a nice person of conventional conformist views who was being encouraged, as she no doubt often is, to play the race card in order to be praised, only to run into the buzzsaw of intra-sex competitiveness in the form of uberwoman Salma Hayek.

    Poor Jessica struggled within the limited mental concepts with which her years with The Daily Show have furnished her to deal with this kind of raw reality.

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    • Agree: Kyle McKenna
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  • @Jefferson
    "It’s only 2%, but it is not insignificant."

    2 percent is insignificant.

    "1. These figures were for Lebanon as a whole, and not about each community within Lebanon."

    And Lebanon as a whole are about as European as Palestinians.

    "2. Christianity is a central building block of European culture. Even though a Lebanese Christian is primary Arabic genetically, culturally he has much in common with Europeans."

    And Latin Americans being overwhelmingly Christians also have much culturally in common with Europeans as well. So open borders is a good thing because it means we get culturally European Christian immigrants from Mexico, Guatemala, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Honduras, etc.

    “It’s only 2%, but it is not insignificant.”

    2 percent is insignificant.

    The baseline may very well be over 5% (the general southern European percentage of Lebanese people of all faiths) , so altogether Lebanese Christians may have about 10% European ancestry.

    Keep in mind that European ancestry is not 100% European among southern Europeans. Italians are perhaps 15% of non-European (Semitic plus North African) origin.

    “2. Christianity is a central building block of European culture. Even though a Lebanese Christian is primary Arabic genetically, culturally he has much in common with Europeans.”

    And Latin Americans being overwhelmingly Christians also have much culturally in common with Europeans as well.

    The non-European background of Lebanese Christian is Caucasian. Semitic. It is silly to compare them to people of largely Native American ancestry with respect to “Euroepanness.”

    Also, reviewing the percentages, “10% Asia Minor” probably means Indo-European – like Kurds or Armenians, indigenous people to Asia minor.

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    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "The baseline may very well be over 5% (the general southern European percentage of Lebanese people of all faiths) , so altogether Lebanese Christians may have about 10% European ancestry."

    Let's deal with facts and not hypotheticals. The average Lebanese is only 5 percent European which means thr Lebanese are not the gold standard of Europeaness. Your average Dominican has more European ancestry than the Lebanese.

    "Keep in mind that European ancestry is not 100% European among southern Europeans. Italians are perhaps 15% of non-European (Semitic plus North African) origin."

    So the least European Italians are still way more genetically European than any Lebanese person, since nobody with 2 Lebanese parents would ever test only 15 percent MENA ancestry on AncestryByDNA and 23AndMe.

    "Also, reviewing the percentages, “10% Asia Minor” probably means Indo-European – like Kurds or Armenians, indigenous people to Asia minor."

    Armenians and Kurds are not Europeans.

    "The non-European background of Lebanese Christian is Caucasian. Semitic. It is silly to compare them to people of largely Native American ancestry with respect to “Euroepanness.”

    You said people who are part of Christianity have a lot culturally in common with Europeans.
    , @Jefferson
    “The baseline may very well be over 5% (the general southern European percentage of Lebanese people of all faiths) , so altogether Lebanese Christians may have about 10% European ancestry.”

    Let’s deal with facts and not hypotheticals. The average Lebanese is only 5 percent European which means the Lebanese are not the gold standard of Europeaness. Your average Dominican has more European ancestry than the Lebanese.

    “Keep in mind that European ancestry is not 100% European among southern Europeans. Italians are perhaps 15% of non-European (Semitic plus North African) origin.”

    So the least European Italians are still way more genetically European than any Lebanese person, since nobody with 2 Lebanese parents would ever test only 15 percent MENA ancestry on AncestryByDNA and 23AndMe.

    “Also, reviewing the percentages, “10% Asia Minor” probably means Indo-European – like Kurds or Armenians, indigenous people to Asia minor.”

    Armenians and Kurds are not Europeans.

    “The non-European background of Lebanese Christian is Caucasian. Semitic. It is silly to compare them to people of largely Native American ancestry with respect to “Euroepanness.”

    You said people who are part of Christianity have a lot culturally in common with Europeans.
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  • @Kyle McKenna

    Would women who look like young teenage boys, the beauty standard in the fashion industry ever since the late 1960s due to the tastes of the men who run it, be the best breeding stock of all to you?
    ...“Eugenics” sounds an awful lot like gay misogyny.
     
    That's just goofy. A couple top models resembled teenaged boys--a little--when they were made up that way. Kate Moss for example. Meanwhile Christie Brinkley, Elle Macpherson, Cindy Crawford, Claudia Schiffer, Christy Turlington, Gisele Bundchen, Naomi Campbell, Linda Evangelista, and pretty much every other top model from the era indicate that you need new spectacles, or something. And preferring attractive women--even tall ones--hardly indicates "gay misogyny". You come across as rather messed up.

    The Sports Illustrated swimsuit edition led to a convergence in looks between fashion models and bikini models in the mid-1970s: e.g., Cheryl Tiegs. To get on the cover of SI, the most valuable single job in terms of fame and career, a model generally had to appeal to both camps.

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    • Agree: syonredux
    • Replies: @guest
    I don't know about Cheryl Tiegs in particular, who was before my time and whose body isn't familiar to me. But since I've been aware of such things, Sports Illustrated cover models are like any other model, except with larger breasts. Or not even that, in the case of say Elle Macpherson.

    SI has been totally captured by High Fashion, if it ever was something separate.
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  • Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @syonredux

    Trump is 6’2″. Hayek’s husband appears to be shorter, and not much taller than Hayek. He may be shorter than Evangelista or similar to her in height. Relative height matters – most men are not very attracted to women who are similar or greater to themselves in height. Also Evangelista has the more androgynous body type that models have compared to the curvier feminine body type of Hayek. It’s not odd that Hayek’s husband would choose a woman shorter than himself with a curvier body than a tall model competing with him in height.
     
    François-Henri Pinault is simply not thinking eugenically. He's short. Therefore, he needs to procreate with a woman who is at least as tall as he is, and not an Arab-Mexican dwarfette....

    Trump's choice in breeding stock (tall and European) reveals his innate sense of what is right and good....

    I don’t think you’re thinking “eugenically”. In any case, “eugenic” ceases to be meaningful in these sorts of discussions, and simply serves as a stand in for subjective preference.

    By your reasoning, men should take 10 ft. tall women as brides.

    Men tend to prefer shorter more feminine women over tall androgynous ones.

    Trump’s children are pretty unremarkable. None of them have accomplished anything on their own in a separate field. They’re known for appearing on The Apprentice with their father and being involved in their father’s business, which is based on his personal celebrity.

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    I don’t think you’re thinking “eugenically”.
     
    Of course I am. Ask any parent: Do you want your children to be tall or short?

    And, since I'm not a cuck, I think that European men should reproduce with European women.
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  • @Mr. Anon
    "Pardon my heteronormativity, but is there a hotter 50 yr old on the planet than Ms. Hayek?"

    She's something else. I remember first seeing her as the snake-dancer / vampire in From Dusk Till Dawn

    Susan Sarandon is 70, and she still looks good.

    Good genes and good living, I suppose.

    Susan Sarandon is 70, and still looks good.

    Oh, good grief – what’s next? Gloria Steinem still has it? Barbara Streisand is a looker? Shirley MacLaine makes

    I am all for non disputandem de gustibus est and all that, but really. Come on, the Wicked Witch of the West will be next.

    Okay, if you like Ms. Sarandon I wish you the best of luck with her. But if you wake up bereft of your manhood after your evening of bliss don’t say you weren’t warned.

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    • Replies: @guest
    The above poster means to say "for her age," no doubt. This gets translated into plain good lookedness, I don't know why.

    I imagine something similar happens with all the frankly ugly actresses who are called good looking. They look good for women who look like men, or they look good in the sense that at least they aren't obese and don't have open wounds on their heads.
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  • @Hare Krishna
    What high standards would Salma not meet? Only the standards of a guy who likes masculine women. While I wouldn't kick Evangelista out of bed, she looks like a man compared to Salma.

    Not saying Trump's a closet case - he's certainly had more hetero sex than the entire alt-right combined 1000 times over - but a guy with a funny, elaborate hairstyle who wears makeup, has a diva-like personality, and loves show tunes and Elton John, AND who went to an all-boys boarding school....

    Not saying Trump’s a closet case – he’s certainly had more hetero sex than the entire alt-right combined 1000 times over – but a guy with a funny, elaborate hairstyle who wears makeup, has a diva-like personality, and loves show tunes and Elton John, AND who went to an all-boys boarding school….

    Oh Jesus. Tom Brady’s supposed to be gay and now this? If I’d read this one first I wouldn’t have bothered responding to you at all.

    Three guesses why a couple of trolls here are into short ethnic women?

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  • @Hare Krishna
    If you consider a preference for masculine women to be "eugenic".
    Would women who look like young teenage boys, the beauty standard in the fashion industry ever since the late 1960s due to the tastes of the men who run it, be the best breeding stock of all to you?
    There have been periods of backlash but the ideal of the pubescent of indeterminate sex has always reappeared. The men who run fashion wouldn't have it any other way. "Eugenics" sounds an awful lot like gay misogyny.

    Would women who look like young teenage boys, the beauty standard in the fashion industry ever since the late 1960s due to the tastes of the men who run it, be the best breeding stock of all to you?
    …“Eugenics” sounds an awful lot like gay misogyny.

    That’s just goofy. A couple top models resembled teenaged boys–a little–when they were made up that way. Kate Moss for example. Meanwhile Christie Brinkley, Elle Macpherson, Cindy Crawford, Claudia Schiffer, Christy Turlington, Gisele Bundchen, Naomi Campbell, Linda Evangelista, and pretty much every other top model from the era indicate that you need new spectacles, or something. And preferring attractive women–even tall ones–hardly indicates “gay misogyny”. You come across as rather messed up.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    The Sports Illustrated swimsuit edition led to a convergence in looks between fashion models and bikini models in the mid-1970s: e.g., Cheryl Tiegs. To get on the cover of SI, the most valuable single job in terms of fame and career, a model generally had to appeal to both camps.
    , @Anonymous
    Crawford and Schiffer represented the era of backlash against the beauty standards set in the late '60s, and going back to the standards of beauty of a healthier era - which coincided with the Reagan backlash against the political and cultural standards also set in the late '60s. Didn't last. Just like the political backlash didn't last. And the androgyny is still pretty dominant today. Look at the crap that Kate Upton has gotten from Karl Lagerfeld and other gay men who run fashion.

    Evangelista doesn't look like a 14 year old boy but she does look masculine.
    , @syonredux

    That’s just goofy. A couple top models resembled teenaged boys–a little–when they were made up that way. Kate Moss for example. Meanwhile Christie Brinkley, Elle Macpherson, Cindy Crawford, Claudia Schiffer, Christy Turlington, Gisele Bundchen, Naomi Campbell, Linda Evangelista, and pretty much every other top model from the era indicate that you need new spectacles, or something.
     
    Indeed:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAO60aTAyEA
    , @guest
    You are severely out of touch with the world of High Fashion. I'm not intimately familiar with all the Big Names you drop, but you must realize those are the ones the media tried to sell to the general public and they had to at least try to make them look like actual women. They didn't actually pick feminine women to be supermodels , because they couldn't, because that goes against everything they believe. But they did attempt with great gusto and apparently a lot of success to pass them off as such.

    Lighting, posing, photography tricks, make-up, costumes, take them away and you're left overwhelmingly with grown woman versions of adolescent boys. Take a look at Cindy Crawford, Elle Macpherson, Gisele Brady, and probably the rest of them (I can't say for sure, because I haven't studied them all in-depth) in candid shots, preferably on the beach. You'll find the sane things: tall, broad shoulders, gangly limbs, skinnier than an adult woman should be, straight up-and-down body, no hips or ass to speak of, either no breasts or likely implants (occasionally real, woman-type breasts, but on manly bodies), high cheek bones (which the fashion industry has tricked everyone into thinking is feminine), square or at least strong jaws, protruding foreheads, caveman brows.

    I could go on and on. It's much worse in the normal, day to day fashion world. The ones the general public doesn't get to see are allowed to be as adolescent boy-like as possible.
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  • @syonredux

    Most men who are not gay nor bi prefer women who look like women, and who are not as tall as they are. Francois Pinault is more like the overwhelming majority of heterosexual men in his preferences.
     
    And his poor taste means inferior offspring.....

    “His poor taste means inferior offspring”

    Oh, what a brave new world of superior, androgenous, European Thems you’d breed.

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    “His poor taste means inferior offspring”

    Oh, what a brave new world of superior, androgenous, European Thems you’d breed.
     
    As opposed to Arab-Mexican dwarfs.......
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  • @syonredux

    Trump is 6’2″. Hayek’s husband appears to be shorter, and not much taller than Hayek. He may be shorter than Evangelista or similar to her in height. Relative height matters – most men are not very attracted to women who are similar or greater to themselves in height. Also Evangelista has the more androgynous body type that models have compared to the curvier feminine body type of Hayek. It’s not odd that Hayek’s husband would choose a woman shorter than himself with a curvier body than a tall model competing with him in height.
     
    François-Henri Pinault is simply not thinking eugenically. He's short. Therefore, he needs to procreate with a woman who is at least as tall as he is, and not an Arab-Mexican dwarfette....

    Trump's choice in breeding stock (tall and European) reveals his innate sense of what is right and good....

    I looked up Linda Evangelista’s height out of curiosity, and she’s 5’10″. That’s way more than enough. All things being equal, I wouldn’t know which to prefer eugenically, 5’2″ or 5’10″. Depends on the man, I suppose. But there are other, more important qualities lacking in Linda. Women resembling men don’t tend to produce many babies.

    You vastly overrate the importance of height, for mysterious reasons. I’m fine with the European part, if you are of European descent and want your kids to look European. But otherwise, that has little to do with good breeding stock, either.

    Traditionally, Europeans have bred for strength in men and prettiness in women. It has served us well. (Prettiness was not defined as being taller than other women.)

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    I looked up Linda Evangelista’s height out of curiosity, and she’s 5’10″. That’s way more than enough.
     
    Dunno. If you are a 6'2 man, it sounds just about right.....

    All things being equal, I wouldn’t know which to prefer eugenically, 5’2″ or 5’10″
     
    5'10. Unless you want short kids....

    traditionally, Europeans have bred for strength in men and prettiness in women. It has served us well. (Prettiness was not defined as being taller than other women.)
     
    Not sure how "strong" the male offspring will be if the mothers are diminutive....
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  • For what it’s worth, I think both MacLaine/Hayek and Williams made some substantive points. One side effectively said that you can ignore everything in your environment when establishing your sense of self (does anyone here really affirm that?), but they did so in an effort to assert the individual’s intrinsic worth beyond social/racial/ethnic/gender identities (I think a lot of us here would defend the notion of such intrinsic worth), while the other side said that black women in America have it worse, on average, than white women (who here would actually deny that?). Yeah, the argument got caught in the crosshairs of ideology and personal status-jockeying, but I think both sides had a point.

    On the whole, despite the patently over-compensating “I’m the hottest B on the planet,” I think Williams was the more reasonable and honest participant in the conversation, insofar as she explicitly said both sides had a point, and she wasn’t trying to get personal.

    ‘”What does this mean, ‘speak over?’” Hayek asked.”

    Yeah, I know most people here are sick of hearing the concept of “speaking over,” but you have to admit, if there were ever a clearer instance of it, Hayek spoke right on over Williams. Spoke and trounced over her. Maybe good for the peanut gallery here, but I bet it sucked for Williams. Whoo.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Jessica Williams seems like a nice person of conventional conformist views who was being encouraged, as she no doubt often is, to play the race card in order to be praised, only to run into the buzzsaw of intra-sex competitiveness in the form of uberwoman Salma Hayek.

    Poor Jessica struggled within the limited mental concepts with which her years with The Daily Show have furnished her to deal with this kind of raw reality.

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  • @syonredux

    Trump is 6’2″. Hayek’s husband appears to be shorter, and not much taller than Hayek. He may be shorter than Evangelista or similar to her in height. Relative height matters – most men are not very attracted to women who are similar or greater to themselves in height. Also Evangelista has the more androgynous body type that models have compared to the curvier feminine body type of Hayek. It’s not odd that Hayek’s husband would choose a woman shorter than himself with a curvier body than a tall model competing with him in height.
     
    François-Henri Pinault is simply not thinking eugenically. He's short. Therefore, he needs to procreate with a woman who is at least as tall as he is, and not an Arab-Mexican dwarfette....

    Trump's choice in breeding stock (tall and European) reveals his innate sense of what is right and good....

    Men prefer curvier women who look like women because said body structure is more conducive to having children, or is viewed as such.

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    Men prefer curvier women who look like women because said body structure is more conducive to having children, or is viewed as such.
     
    And eugenically minded European men like Trump prefer tall European women. Why?

    1. Because it means purely European offspring

    2. Because it increases the odds for tall offspring
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  • @attilathehen
    That's Brazil where 60% of the population is black (from light to dark skinned). Latin America is either mestizo (Indian) or mulatto (black). Brazil, Cuba, Puerto Rico, Panama, Columbia, Venezuela have large black populations. Mexico, Bolivia, Ecuador are largely Indian. For some bizarre reason, Brazil is always viewed as the model Latin nation. It is very segregated and this "5%" black is very rare. I've known many Latins and they are very aware of their family histories. Brazil is being pushed for propaganda purposes in the USA.

    “That’s Brazil where 60% of the population is black”

    No it’s not. Do you have any studies to back up your claim that the average Brazilian is genetically of predominantly Sub Saharan African ancestry like other New World groups like African Americans, Jamaicans, and Haitians?

    The average Brazilian is an Octoroon. The “Blackest” region of Brazil which is the Northeast, the average Brazilian is a Quadroon.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_ethnicity_in_Brazil

    If Brazilians on average were a predominantly Sub Saharan African people their human development index would be similar to that of other Sub Saharan African countries.

    Brazil has a higher human development index than some Eastern European and Balkan countries.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index&mobileaction=toggle_view_desktop

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  • @Steve Sailer
    I'm not sure luck had all that much to do with it. It sounds like Salma outmaneuvered supermodel Linda Evangelista in competition for the French billionaire. It's a little like saying Tom Brady lucked out in marrying his spouse.

    OK, I’ll go along with “outmaneuvered.” But have you seen Linda lately? She did not age well. Being a model when you’re young is one thing. Most people look OK when they’re young. But it’s the “after 50″ where you really see the deviation. Linda may have beat Salma by 7 inches in height, but right now, Salma’s got Linda beat in terms of “aging well.” Pinault is rich and could get another woman if he wanted. But for now he seems happy with having chosen Salma. And from what I’ve read, Salma really wants to make her husband and child happy. Linda’s background was also a bit more “sketchy.”

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  • […] Source: Salma Hayek and a young black starlet debate who deserves more Intersectional Pokemon Points –… […]

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  • @Anon
    Most men who are not gay nor bi prefer women who look like women, and who are not as tall as they are. Francois Pinault is more like the overwhelming majority of heterosexual men in his preferences.

    Most men who are not gay nor bi prefer women who look like women, and who are not as tall as they are. Francois Pinault is more like the overwhelming majority of heterosexual men in his preferences.

    And his poor taste means inferior offspring…..

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    • Replies: @guest
    "His poor taste means inferior offspring"

    Oh, what a brave new world of superior, androgenous, European Thems you'd breed.
    , @ATX Hipster
    The girl has billionaires on both sides of her family. She'll probably end up alright.
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  • @Hare Krishna
    If you consider a preference for masculine women to be "eugenic".
    Would women who look like young teenage boys, the beauty standard in the fashion industry ever since the late 1960s due to the tastes of the men who run it, be the best breeding stock of all to you?
    There have been periods of backlash but the ideal of the pubescent of indeterminate sex has always reappeared. The men who run fashion wouldn't have it any other way. "Eugenics" sounds an awful lot like gay misogyny.

    “Eugenics” sounds an awful lot like gay misogyny.

    Tall and European vs short and Levantine-Mexican…..

    Which makes better breeding stock?

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  • @Anonymous
    Trump is 6'2". Hayek's husband appears to be shorter, and not much taller than Hayek. He may be shorter than Evangelista or similar to her in height. Relative height matters - most men are not very attracted to women who are similar or greater to themselves in height. Also Evangelista has the more androgynous body type that models have compared to the curvier feminine body type of Hayek. It's not odd that Hayek's husband would choose a woman shorter than himself with a curvier body than a tall model competing with him in height.

    Trump is 6’2″. Hayek’s husband appears to be shorter, and not much taller than Hayek. He may be shorter than Evangelista or similar to her in height. Relative height matters – most men are not very attracted to women who are similar or greater to themselves in height. Also Evangelista has the more androgynous body type that models have compared to the curvier feminine body type of Hayek. It’s not odd that Hayek’s husband would choose a woman shorter than himself with a curvier body than a tall model competing with him in height.

    François-Henri Pinault is simply not thinking eugenically. He’s short. Therefore, he needs to procreate with a woman who is at least as tall as he is, and not an Arab-Mexican dwarfette….

    Trump’s choice in breeding stock (tall and European) reveals his innate sense of what is right and good….

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Men prefer curvier women who look like women because said body structure is more conducive to having children, or is viewed as such.
    , @guest
    I looked up Linda Evangelista's height out of curiosity, and she's 5'10". That's way more than enough. All things being equal, I wouldn't know which to prefer eugenically, 5'2" or 5'10". Depends on the man, I suppose. But there are other, more important qualities lacking in Linda. Women resembling men don't tend to produce many babies.

    You vastly overrate the importance of height, for mysterious reasons. I'm fine with the European part, if you are of European descent and want your kids to look European. But otherwise, that has little to do with good breeding stock, either.

    Traditionally, Europeans have bred for strength in men and prettiness in women. It has served us well. (Prettiness was not defined as being taller than other women.)

    , @Anonymous
    I don't think you're thinking "eugenically". In any case, "eugenic" ceases to be meaningful in these sorts of discussions, and simply serves as a stand in for subjective preference.

    By your reasoning, men should take 10 ft. tall women as brides.

    Men tend to prefer shorter more feminine women over tall androgynous ones.

    Trump's children are pretty unremarkable. None of them have accomplished anything on their own in a separate field. They're known for appearing on The Apprentice with their father and being involved in their father's business, which is based on his personal celebrity.
    , @Jenner Ickham Errican

    François-Henri Pinault is simply not thinking eugenically.
     
    Pinault already has children with a French ex-wife (according to Wikipedia). Assuming he’s straight and is looking for companionship in a mate, and not mere pump-dump-and-support Lebensborn vessels (which in that case should be fit young lasses), I give you this visual comparison: Linda Evangelista 2016 (top row!) vs. Salma Hayek 2016.

    Even though Hayek has a comically stumpy figure, she blows away Evangelista in the Cialis sweepstakes. Pinault himself is no Adonis. Here’s the little dude with Hayek and Six Flags’ Mr. Six, who is 6’3”.
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  • Most men who are not gay nor bi prefer women who look like women, and who are not as tall as they are. Francois Pinault is more like the overwhelming majority of heterosexual men in his preferences.

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    Most men who are not gay nor bi prefer women who look like women, and who are not as tall as they are. Francois Pinault is more like the overwhelming majority of heterosexual men in his preferences.
     
    And his poor taste means inferior offspring.....
    , @Jefferson
    "Most men who are not gay nor bi prefer women who look like women, and who are not as tall as they are."

    If the shorter a woman is the more feminine looking she is, are you saying Swedish women for example look more masculine than Guatemalan women?

    If marrying the shortest woman you can find that is not yet legally a midget should be your goal in life, than forget about the blonde Nordic Aryan Goddesses of Northern Europe and instead look for a wife who is either from Mexico, Peru, Bolivia, Central America, East Asia, or Southeast Asia.
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  • @syonredux

    What high standards would Salma not meet?
     
    Too short. Having kids with a 5'2 woman is not a good idea.....


    So, from a eugenics standpoint:

    Salma Hayek: Short and Levantine-Mexican

    Linda Evangelista: Tall and European

    Salma: pump and dump

    Linda: prime breeding stock

    If you consider a preference for masculine women to be “eugenic”.
    Would women who look like young teenage boys, the beauty standard in the fashion industry ever since the late 1960s due to the tastes of the men who run it, be the best breeding stock of all to you?
    There have been periods of backlash but the ideal of the pubescent of indeterminate sex has always reappeared. The men who run fashion wouldn’t have it any other way. “Eugenics” sounds an awful lot like gay misogyny.

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    “Eugenics” sounds an awful lot like gay misogyny.
     
    Tall and European vs short and Levantine-Mexican.....

    Which makes better breeding stock?
    , @Kyle McKenna

    Would women who look like young teenage boys, the beauty standard in the fashion industry ever since the late 1960s due to the tastes of the men who run it, be the best breeding stock of all to you?
    ...“Eugenics” sounds an awful lot like gay misogyny.
     
    That's just goofy. A couple top models resembled teenaged boys--a little--when they were made up that way. Kate Moss for example. Meanwhile Christie Brinkley, Elle Macpherson, Cindy Crawford, Claudia Schiffer, Christy Turlington, Gisele Bundchen, Naomi Campbell, Linda Evangelista, and pretty much every other top model from the era indicate that you need new spectacles, or something. And preferring attractive women--even tall ones--hardly indicates "gay misogyny". You come across as rather messed up.
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  • @guest
    By the way, just for kicks I looked for headlines involving Hayek today, and above ones about her clothes and hairstyle I saw: "Salma Hayek in trouble for condescending to Jessica Williams." Which was obviously written by an SJW (or zombie follower), but not a heterosexual male one.

    By the way, just for kicks I looked for headlines involving Hayek today, and above ones about her clothes and hairstyle I saw: “Salma Hayek in trouble for condescending to Jessica Williams.” Which was obviously written by an SJW (or zombie follower),

    Mexican Arab vs Black woman: SJWs will side with the Black chick….

    Maybe Salma should look for ways to expand her intersectionality…..Let’s see, she could start talking about how she’s bisexual…..maybe embrace Islam…..

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  • Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @syonredux

    A man who would go for Linda Evangelista over Salma Hayek is a man who is not 100 percent heterosexual.
     
    Trump looks awfully hetero to me.....

    He simply has high standards when it comes to breeding stock....So, a 5'9 Italian beats out a 5'2 Mexican Arab

    Trump is 6’2″. Hayek’s husband appears to be shorter, and not much taller than Hayek. He may be shorter than Evangelista or similar to her in height. Relative height matters – most men are not very attracted to women who are similar or greater to themselves in height. Also Evangelista has the more androgynous body type that models have compared to the curvier feminine body type of Hayek. It’s not odd that Hayek’s husband would choose a woman shorter than himself with a curvier body than a tall model competing with him in height.

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    Trump is 6’2″. Hayek’s husband appears to be shorter, and not much taller than Hayek. He may be shorter than Evangelista or similar to her in height. Relative height matters – most men are not very attracted to women who are similar or greater to themselves in height. Also Evangelista has the more androgynous body type that models have compared to the curvier feminine body type of Hayek. It’s not odd that Hayek’s husband would choose a woman shorter than himself with a curvier body than a tall model competing with him in height.
     
    François-Henri Pinault is simply not thinking eugenically. He's short. Therefore, he needs to procreate with a woman who is at least as tall as he is, and not an Arab-Mexican dwarfette....

    Trump's choice in breeding stock (tall and European) reveals his innate sense of what is right and good....
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  • @Hare Krishna
    What high standards would Salma not meet? Only the standards of a guy who likes masculine women. While I wouldn't kick Evangelista out of bed, she looks like a man compared to Salma.

    Not saying Trump's a closet case - he's certainly had more hetero sex than the entire alt-right combined 1000 times over - but a guy with a funny, elaborate hairstyle who wears makeup, has a diva-like personality, and loves show tunes and Elton John, AND who went to an all-boys boarding school....

    What high standards would Salma not meet?

    Too short. Having kids with a 5’2 woman is not a good idea…..

    So, from a eugenics standpoint:

    Salma Hayek: Short and Levantine-Mexican

    Linda Evangelista: Tall and European

    Salma: pump and dump

    Linda: prime breeding stock

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    • Replies: @Hare Krishna
    If you consider a preference for masculine women to be "eugenic".
    Would women who look like young teenage boys, the beauty standard in the fashion industry ever since the late 1960s due to the tastes of the men who run it, be the best breeding stock of all to you?
    There have been periods of backlash but the ideal of the pubescent of indeterminate sex has always reappeared. The men who run fashion wouldn't have it any other way. "Eugenics" sounds an awful lot like gay misogyny.
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  • @Hare Krishna
    What high standards would Salma not meet? Only the standards of a guy who likes masculine women. While I wouldn't kick Evangelista out of bed, she looks like a man compared to Salma.

    Not saying Trump's a closet case - he's certainly had more hetero sex than the entire alt-right combined 1000 times over - but a guy with a funny, elaborate hairstyle who wears makeup, has a diva-like personality, and loves show tunes and Elton John, AND who went to an all-boys boarding school....

    You have to weigh sexual attraction with social gamesmanship. You marry not to only to satisfy your libido but to look good in your circle. If this were a different era I could see Trump breeding with more feminine women. But it is now, and the dominant female type is the model type: minimally to moderately masculinized social x-rays.

    I haven’t gone through Trump’s menagerie with a fine-toothed comb, and am not old enough to remember all his tabloid romances. But Melania, who benefits by comparison to her predecessor, is an actual model. She fits the type. Men like Trump are expected to wed fashionable body types.

    I have to believe that, otherwise all these powerful men marrying shemales have to be homos. Not that Melania is a shemale, but Tom Brady’s wife, for instance, is. Is Brady a homo? Or George Clooney, who’s wife doesn’t look like a man persay but is ugly? That came up on another thread not long ago. Maybe, maybe not. But they could easily be marrying for appearances. Sorta like how Bill Clinton married for power.

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    • Replies: @Hare Krishna
    I wouldn't consider Melania to be masculine. Too tall, yes. But feminine.
    I wouldn't consider Gisele Bundchen to be masculine either.
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  • By the way, just for kicks I looked for headlines involving Hayek today, and above ones about her clothes and hairstyle I saw: “Salma Hayek in trouble for condescending to Jessica Williams.” Which was obviously written by an SJW (or zombie follower), but not a heterosexual male one.

    Read More
    • Replies: @syonredux

    By the way, just for kicks I looked for headlines involving Hayek today, and above ones about her clothes and hairstyle I saw: “Salma Hayek in trouble for condescending to Jessica Williams.” Which was obviously written by an SJW (or zombie follower),
     
    Mexican Arab vs Black woman: SJWs will side with the Black chick....

    Maybe Salma should look for ways to expand her intersectionality.....Let's see, she could start talking about how she's bisexual.....maybe embrace Islam.....
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @syonredux

    A man who would go for Linda Evangelista over Salma Hayek is a man who is not 100 percent heterosexual.
     
    Trump looks awfully hetero to me.....

    He simply has high standards when it comes to breeding stock....So, a 5'9 Italian beats out a 5'2 Mexican Arab

    What high standards would Salma not meet? Only the standards of a guy who likes masculine women. While I wouldn’t kick Evangelista out of bed, she looks like a man compared to Salma.

    Not saying Trump’s a closet case – he’s certainly had more hetero sex than the entire alt-right combined 1000 times over – but a guy with a funny, elaborate hairstyle who wears makeup, has a diva-like personality, and loves show tunes and Elton John, AND who went to an all-boys boarding school….

    Read More
    • Replies: @guest
    You have to weigh sexual attraction with social gamesmanship. You marry not to only to satisfy your libido but to look good in your circle. If this were a different era I could see Trump breeding with more feminine women. But it is now, and the dominant female type is the model type: minimally to moderately masculinized social x-rays.

    I haven't gone through Trump's menagerie with a fine-toothed comb, and am not old enough to remember all his tabloid romances. But Melania, who benefits by comparison to her predecessor, is an actual model. She fits the type. Men like Trump are expected to wed fashionable body types.

    I have to believe that, otherwise all these powerful men marrying shemales have to be homos. Not that Melania is a shemale, but Tom Brady's wife, for instance, is. Is Brady a homo? Or George Clooney, who's wife doesn't look like a man persay but is ugly? That came up on another thread not long ago. Maybe, maybe not. But they could easily be marrying for appearances. Sorta like how Bill Clinton married for power.

    , @syonredux

    What high standards would Salma not meet?
     
    Too short. Having kids with a 5'2 woman is not a good idea.....


    So, from a eugenics standpoint:

    Salma Hayek: Short and Levantine-Mexican

    Linda Evangelista: Tall and European

    Salma: pump and dump

    Linda: prime breeding stock
    , @Kyle McKenna

    Not saying Trump’s a closet case – he’s certainly had more hetero sex than the entire alt-right combined 1000 times over – but a guy with a funny, elaborate hairstyle who wears makeup, has a diva-like personality, and loves show tunes and Elton John, AND who went to an all-boys boarding school….
     
    Oh Jesus. Tom Brady's supposed to be gay and now this? If I'd read this one first I wouldn't have bothered responding to you at all.

    Three guesses why a couple of trolls here are into short ethnic women?
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  • @Formerly CARealist
    Is somebody going to explain "find the democracy inside" to me?

    My inner democracy has me sitting on the throne with no one else around. Maybe all theirs does too.

    Democracy is found in your Q Zone, right next to the flammerstam. If you hit the codswallop you’ve gone too far.

    Had mine removed with a laparectomy shortly after joining the Dark Enlightenment.

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  • @Hare Krishna
    A man who would go for Linda Evangelista over Salma Hayek is a man who is not 100 percent heterosexual.

    A man who would go for Linda Evangelista over Salma Hayek is a man who is not 100 percent heterosexual.

    Trump looks awfully hetero to me…..

    He simply has high standards when it comes to breeding stock….So, a 5’9 Italian beats out a 5’2 Mexican Arab

    Read More
    • Replies: @Hare Krishna
    What high standards would Salma not meet? Only the standards of a guy who likes masculine women. While I wouldn't kick Evangelista out of bed, she looks like a man compared to Salma.

    Not saying Trump's a closet case - he's certainly had more hetero sex than the entire alt-right combined 1000 times over - but a guy with a funny, elaborate hairstyle who wears makeup, has a diva-like personality, and loves show tunes and Elton John, AND who went to an all-boys boarding school....
    , @Anonymous
    Trump is 6'2". Hayek's husband appears to be shorter, and not much taller than Hayek. He may be shorter than Evangelista or similar to her in height. Relative height matters - most men are not very attracted to women who are similar or greater to themselves in height. Also Evangelista has the more androgynous body type that models have compared to the curvier feminine body type of Hayek. It's not odd that Hayek's husband would choose a woman shorter than himself with a curvier body than a tall model competing with him in height.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @guest
    "Every leading movie lady is well above average in looks. Heck, character actresses are often knockouts"

    I'd say this was true in the Bad Old Days, when Hollywood went out of its way to cast feminine women. It becomes less and less true every year, as I've noticed actresses on average becoming more and more masculine and more and more like Tom Wolfe's "social x-rays." I blame this on the same you-know-whos in charge of High Fashion, though it's not as bad as in that field.

    They are well-groomed, well-appointed, not fat (though generally too skinny), with clear skin and no obvious signs of sickness. And there are a lot of flat-out ugly people in the world. So your well above average point is taken.

    Still, Salma Hayek, who has a stunning body, incredible breasts, and strikingly memorable features, also has an unfeminine, square jaw. She would not have been in the top tier of beauties back in the day. (Grace Kelly and Ava Gardner, for instance, had overly strong jawlines, as well. But they both easily blow Salma out of the water.)

    I dunno, man. Salma could blow me out of the water or anything else she wanted. Never noticed her jaw.

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