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    In my infamous column “The Talk, Nonblack Version” at TakiMag, six years ago this month, I introduced the ad hoc abbreviation IWSB for “Intelligent and Well-Socialized Blacks.” I then advised the nonblack youth of America as follows: I can’t really claim to have been very energetic about taking my own advice here, but there is...
  • @attilathehen
    OK RCC cuck.

    “OK RCC cuck.”

    No, it’s all in the Bible. Word for word. A strict interpretation of the Good Book.

    Corinthians 13:4-7–Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

    John 3:20–For whenever our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and he knows everything.

    You made the statement. “Derb’s Chinese tiger mama did not produce anything of value.” It
    is clear that God values all human beings, based on just those two passages alone.

    Why do you insist on bastardizing the faith?

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Corvinus
    "Derb’s Chinese tiger mama did not produce anything of value."

    God values all human beings, for there is value in their being and in their soul. So you would be stating something that directly counters His word.

    OK RCC cuck.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "OK RCC cuck."

    No, it's all in the Bible. Word for word. A strict interpretation of the Good Book.

    Corinthians 13:4-7--Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

    John 3:20--For whenever our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and he knows everything.

    You made the statement. “Derb’s Chinese tiger mama did not produce anything of value.” It
    is clear that God values all human beings, based on just those two passages alone.

    Why do you insist on bastardizing the faith?
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @attilathehen
    There's that Jewish degeneracy. Jews have high intermarriage rates with blacks/Asians, so of course you think white/Asian interbreeding is kosher. It is not. Fortunately, most of this "white" - Asian inbreeding is taking place with Jews. Jews are haram and cannot be in the West. Derbyshire's interbreeding produced a son with problems who needed military service to straighten him out. Derb's Chinese daughter has an IQ of 100-105. Derb's Chinese tiger mama did not produce anything of value.

    “Derb’s Chinese tiger mama did not produce anything of value.”

    God values all human beings, for there is value in their being and in their soul. So you would be stating something that directly counters His word.

    Read More
    • Replies: @attilathehen
    OK RCC cuck.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @attilathehen
    You've reduced your rebuttals to this Dr. Tran. Give it up Rosamund. You're just scribbling whatever babblings come out of your mouth.

    That babbling came out of a video, not my mouth. And the other babblings came out of my phone.

    I wish had been capable of such a transcendant piece of art as the Dr. Tran series, but only the folks at Lone Sausage had that privilege. Give credit where credit is due.

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  • @Achmed E. Newman

    I care not whether he is white, green, blue or

    black.

     
    Exactly, I think of everyone as being green, just as pre-molestation Bill Cosby urged us to. Even on the city bus, let's just try to get along and forget our color for a while. Imagine that we are all green, OK?

    Still, though, when I get on the bus, if there are too many people that are dark green, I get right back off the bus.

    So do I. All those dark greenies have already driven me away from movie theaters.

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  • @Yan Shen
    Well it seems like our good host Ron is loathe to ban anyone outright and rightfully so since freedom of expression truly is the cornerstone of any intellectually prosperous society. On the other hand this attilathehen character is so obviously and outrageously insane that I wonder if we shouldn't all just take advantage of the ability to block specific commenters here. Then once she realizes that no one's responding to her insane outbursts anymore maybe she'll take a hint and go back to Stormfront or some such other site where I'm sure she'll find herself in much better company.

    A Chinese male (who is inferior to Caucasian males and females) has problems with me because I defend the West and its racial composition (Caucasian/European/white)? I’m not a Stormfronter so stop this nonsense. Your nose is bent out of shape because I’ve told you that you are not Western/Caucasian/European and thus are not part of and do not belong in the West. You also do not have a right to speak about the West and the problems it faces. If you are in the West, leave.

    Your pal (((Bardon))) also is not Western. He has no right to speak about the problems that face the West. Both of you need to be deported if you live in the West.

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  • @Rosamond Vincy

    He said a bad word.
     
    Oh my gosh, you're Dr. Tran.

    This explains everything:

    NSFW:

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=5s&v=FO0kRE5OTZI

    Esp. 3:32-3:45

    You’ve reduced your rebuttals to this Dr. Tran. Give it up Rosamund. You’re just scribbling whatever babblings come out of your mouth.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rosamond Vincy
    That babbling came out of a video, not my mouth. And the other babblings came out of my phone.

    I wish had been capable of such a transcendant piece of art as the Dr. Tran series, but only the folks at Lone Sausage had that privilege. Give credit where credit is due.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @attilathehen
    Truth, you once commented why you thought it was so strange for commentators to attack me for wanting Caucasian men and Caucasian women to marry. These degenerate commentators find it so strange I am for the West and the various people who comprise it. I have proven that Derbyshire stated Asians are smarter than whites. I don't know why he continues to live in the West. Daniel Chieh got angry because I told him he should send his daughters to China since the Chinese aborted so many female fetuses and males greatly outnumber females (and he's Chinese!!!). Steve Gittleson got angry because I pointed out that he is a Jew and Jews have high intermarriage rates with blacks/Asians. Rosamund is angry because I told her a black/Asian pope is unacceptable in the West. They will refuse the reality of IQ as it relates to race. They refuse to acknowledge the West is best. They can't deal with the truth (no pun intended).

    Truth, you once commented why you thought it was so strange for commentators to attack me for wanting Caucasian men and Caucasian women to marry.

    Yup. And I’m still confused.

    Obviously Babe, I don’t agree with you on much, but I stand for your right to speak your mind, ESPECIALLY keeping in mind that you don’t seem to be saying anything that much out of line with the general gestalt here, you just appear to have bigger stones.

    If there is one thing worse than a weak, limp-wristed, sycophant, liberal, “liberal”, it is a weak, limp-wristed, sycophant, liberal, racist.

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  • @attilathehen
    Did you see Gittelson comment no. 117? He said a bad word. I don't use bad words. He is just angry that I pointed out that he is a Jew, Jews are known for degeneracy, i.e., miscegenation, and he can't deal with facts, i.e., high intermarriage rates between Jews/blacks/Asians. I state facts.

    He said a bad word.

    Oh my gosh, you’re Dr. Tran.

    This explains everything:

    NSFW:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=5s&v=FO0kRE5OTZI

    Esp. 3:32-3:45

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    • Replies: @attilathehen
    You've reduced your rebuttals to this Dr. Tran. Give it up Rosamund. You're just scribbling whatever babblings come out of your mouth.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Bardon Kaldian

    He is just angry that I pointed out that he is a Jew, Jews are known for degeneracy, i.e., miscegenation, and he can’t deal with facts, i.e., high intermarriage rates between Jews/blacks/Asians.
     
    What a load of cr*p....

    Well it seems like our good host Ron is loathe to ban anyone outright and rightfully so since freedom of expression truly is the cornerstone of any intellectually prosperous society. On the other hand this attilathehen character is so obviously and outrageously insane that I wonder if we shouldn’t all just take advantage of the ability to block specific commenters here. Then once she realizes that no one’s responding to her insane outbursts anymore maybe she’ll take a hint and go back to Stormfront or some such other site where I’m sure she’ll find herself in much better company.

    Read More
    • Replies: @attilathehen
    A Chinese male (who is inferior to Caucasian males and females) has problems with me because I defend the West and its racial composition (Caucasian/European/white)? I'm not a Stormfronter so stop this nonsense. Your nose is bent out of shape because I've told you that you are not Western/Caucasian/European and thus are not part of and do not belong in the West. You also do not have a right to speak about the West and the problems it faces. If you are in the West, leave.

    Your pal (((Bardon))) also is not Western. He has no right to speak about the problems that face the West. Both of you need to be deported if you live in the West.

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Bardon Kaldian

    He is just angry that I pointed out that he is a Jew, Jews are known for degeneracy, i.e., miscegenation, and he can’t deal with facts, i.e., high intermarriage rates between Jews/blacks/Asians.
     
    What a load of cr*p....

    Well, I mean, Dawg, if you can identify Jews with medicine, theatre and science, I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that you can identify them with porn…

    https://www.henrymakow.com/kabbalah-how-sex-became-our-religion.html?_ga=2.57165098.1667921745.1524186955-1408694968.1464187093

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  • @Bardon Kaldian

    He is just angry that I pointed out that he is a Jew, Jews are known for degeneracy, i.e., miscegenation, and he can’t deal with facts, i.e., high intermarriage rates between Jews/blacks/Asians.
     
    What a load of cr*p....

    Are you Jewish?

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  • @Truth


    This, here (atillathehen), is someone clearly obsessed with race. Someone for whom race transcends all else.
     

    And this sets her apart here?

    Truth, you once commented why you thought it was so strange for commentators to attack me for wanting Caucasian men and Caucasian women to marry. These degenerate commentators find it so strange I am for the West and the various people who comprise it. I have proven that Derbyshire stated Asians are smarter than whites. I don’t know why he continues to live in the West. Daniel Chieh got angry because I told him he should send his daughters to China since the Chinese aborted so many female fetuses and males greatly outnumber females (and he’s Chinese!!!). Steve Gittleson got angry because I pointed out that he is a Jew and Jews have high intermarriage rates with blacks/Asians. Rosamund is angry because I told her a black/Asian pope is unacceptable in the West. They will refuse the reality of IQ as it relates to race. They refuse to acknowledge the West is best. They can’t deal with the truth (no pun intended).

    Read More
    • Replies: @Truth

    Truth, you once commented why you thought it was so strange for commentators to attack me for wanting Caucasian men and Caucasian women to marry.
     
    Yup. And I'm still confused.

    Obviously Babe, I don't agree with you on much, but I stand for your right to speak your mind, ESPECIALLY keeping in mind that you don't seem to be saying anything that much out of line with the general gestalt here, you just appear to have bigger stones.

    If there is one thing worse than a weak, limp-wristed, sycophant, liberal, "liberal", it is a weak, limp-wristed, sycophant, liberal, racist.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @attilathehen
    Did you see Gittelson comment no. 117? He said a bad word. I don't use bad words. He is just angry that I pointed out that he is a Jew, Jews are known for degeneracy, i.e., miscegenation, and he can't deal with facts, i.e., high intermarriage rates between Jews/blacks/Asians. I state facts.

    He is just angry that I pointed out that he is a Jew, Jews are known for degeneracy, i.e., miscegenation, and he can’t deal with facts, i.e., high intermarriage rates between Jews/blacks/Asians.

    What a load of cr*p….

    Read More
    • Replies: @attilathehen
    Are you Jewish?
    , @Truth
    Well, I mean, Dawg, if you can identify Jews with medicine, theatre and science, I don't think it's a stretch to say that you can identify them with porn...

    https://www.henrymakow.com/kabbalah-how-sex-became-our-religion.html?_ga=2.57165098.1667921745.1524186955-1408694968.1464187093
    , @Yan Shen
    Well it seems like our good host Ron is loathe to ban anyone outright and rightfully so since freedom of expression truly is the cornerstone of any intellectually prosperous society. On the other hand this attilathehen character is so obviously and outrageously insane that I wonder if we shouldn't all just take advantage of the ability to block specific commenters here. Then once she realizes that no one's responding to her insane outbursts anymore maybe she'll take a hint and go back to Stormfront or some such other site where I'm sure she'll find herself in much better company.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Achmed E. Newman

    I care not whether he is white, green, blue or

    black.

     
    Exactly, I think of everyone as being green, just as pre-molestation Bill Cosby urged us to. Even on the city bus, let's just try to get along and forget our color for a while. Imagine that we are all green, OK?

    Still, though, when I get on the bus, if there are too many people that are dark green, I get right back off the bus.

    Green good. Dark green not so good.

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  • @Bardon Kaldian
    I am against censorship, but such ad hominem vomit shouldn't have been posted.

    Did you see Gittelson comment no. 117? He said a bad word. I don’t use bad words. He is just angry that I pointed out that he is a Jew, Jews are known for degeneracy, i.e., miscegenation, and he can’t deal with facts, i.e., high intermarriage rates between Jews/blacks/Asians. I state facts.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian

    He is just angry that I pointed out that he is a Jew, Jews are known for degeneracy, i.e., miscegenation, and he can’t deal with facts, i.e., high intermarriage rates between Jews/blacks/Asians.
     
    What a load of cr*p....
    , @Rosamond Vincy

    He said a bad word.
     
    Oh my gosh, you're Dr. Tran.

    This explains everything:

    NSFW:

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=5s&v=FO0kRE5OTZI

    Esp. 3:32-3:45
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  • @Dissident
    @ Yan Shen:

    This, here (atillathehen), is someone clearly obsessed with race. Someone for whom race transcends all else. Someone who never misses an opportunity to level petty insults at any and all non-whites as well as any white who dares to defy or fall short of the level of ethno-narcissism that she demands from all whites.

    And you lump together, with someone like that, someone like John Derbyshire? Do you really not see how preposterous that is?

    All that said, perhaps, at this point-- after seeing you repeatedly characterize Derb as nothing more than "a white Ta-Nehisi Coates", after calling you out on such absurdity several times and receiving no response from you to my challenges... Well, at this point, perhaps, in making this post, I am revealing somewhat of a fixation on my part with your fixation on attacking Derb in service to an apparent insatiable need of yours to preen and virtue-signal.

    Well I don’t recall ever lumping Mr. Derbyshire together with that insane atillathehen character. She’s obviously on an entirely different plane of bad compared to almost anyone else on planet earth. I have drawn a comparison between Mr. Derbyshire and Ta Nehisi Coates though.

    In case I didn’t make myself clear before, obviously Mr. Derbyshire is significantly smarter than Mr. Coates and possesses a much broader body of knowledge touching upon areas such as China or the history of mathematics. Meanwhile Mr. Coates’ body of knowledge is entirely one dimensional and basically revolves around race and being black and how fascinating it is to inhabit a black body.

    That being said, it’s also clear to me that one of Mr. Derbyshire’s character shortcomings, in my opinion, is his strange fascination with blacks. In that respect, I don’t think his other body of work necessarily negates that. Hence why I drew the comparison.

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  • @attilathehen
    There's that Jewish degeneracy. Jews have high intermarriage rates with blacks/Asians, so of course you think white/Asian interbreeding is kosher. It is not. Fortunately, most of this "white" - Asian inbreeding is taking place with Jews. Jews are haram and cannot be in the West. Derbyshire's interbreeding produced a son with problems who needed military service to straighten him out. Derb's Chinese daughter has an IQ of 100-105. Derb's Chinese tiger mama did not produce anything of value.

    I am against censorship, but such ad hominem vomit shouldn’t have been posted.

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    • Replies: @attilathehen
    Did you see Gittelson comment no. 117? He said a bad word. I don't use bad words. He is just angry that I pointed out that he is a Jew, Jews are known for degeneracy, i.e., miscegenation, and he can't deal with facts, i.e., high intermarriage rates between Jews/blacks/Asians. I state facts.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @attilathehen
    There's that Jewish degeneracy. Jews have high intermarriage rates with blacks/Asians, so of course you think white/Asian interbreeding is kosher. It is not. Fortunately, most of this "white" - Asian inbreeding is taking place with Jews. Jews are haram and cannot be in the West. Derbyshire's interbreeding produced a son with problems who needed military service to straighten him out. Derb's Chinese daughter has an IQ of 100-105. Derb's Chinese tiger mama did not produce anything of value.

    Do you know either of his kids? It sounds like they both turned out just fine. A lot of people are difficult in adolescence; I certainly was. Better to be a struggling adolescent who grows into a fine young man than a high school overachiever who peaked at 16 and is never heard from again, or heard from on the evening news–for all the wrong reasons

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  • @attilathehen
    "don’t recall having any trouble standing up to you..." Of course not, I'm not a Muslim, black, Asian.

    Do you still live in NYC, or did you escape the diversity? I'm still in a diverse, vibrating area as I plan to be a part of the reconquista. And, no, the RCC won't be involved in the reconquista.

    You still can't deal with the facts I point out about the RCC. What is your interest in the West?

    I’m in the Midwest, which is quite vibrant enough for everyone. (Vibrating would be California.)
    I stood up to plenty of “diverse” people on the subway. I was usually able to avoid confrontations by twitching and muttering about Cthulhu, but not always.

    As for the RCC, God created that as He did everything, and if the papacy is in that serious trouble, I doubt very much that you can improve on God’s handiwork.

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  • @Bardon Kaldian
    I agree that IQ is non-negligible, but I fail to see why some people, Derb included, attach so much importance to it.


    African-American IQ is supposed to be 85, while Indian- 82
    . Is this a joke? India is not a very functioning country, but does anyone with a minimum of common sense truly think that an imaginary independent country, comprised of blacks, could be as nearly developed as India (education, science, technology, tourism, levels of corruption, crime levels etc.)

    Mongolia- IQ 101.

    Germany-IQ 99

    Slovenia-IQ 96

    Iran-IQ 84

    So, Iran and India are, on average, dumber that American blacks?

    Hard to believe ...

    So, Iran and India are, on average, dumber that American blacks?

    Jeeze, Bardo, don’t play the naif. The IQ business is, well, a lot like show business, but has a much smaller market. There’s guys out there — writers, researchers, commentators — who need jobs, or some kinda income, ya know? The only subject on which they can bullshit interminably is IQ, inexhaustibly, while proving and demonstrating absolutely nothing. If any situation is a pure proof of the ability of idiots to transcend all useful function, IQ-ists stand unchallenged.

    On any given day of the week, the Kardashian industry rakes in more cash than all the squalling IQ-ists on seven continents and Malaysia. Does it not trouble you, however triflingly, that you and I, intelligent and informed personages though we be, engender some mils of income, some Zimbabwean largesse, to the forces of IQ-ism? Scoffing has no effect; pointing out the insignificance of minuscule statistical values long since swamped-out by situational and environmental realities … well, it just does no good at all. They’re like roaches — there’s always one the bug-spray doesn’t reach.

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  • @Achmed E. Newman
    It's good to read from another prepper here. It seems like many on iSteve , Derb, etc. are awoke as far as racial issues but not very much on the big financial picture. Yours have been good comments all around, JoeF, and regarding the one below, it makes perfect sense and explains things better than I did.

    However, you're not going to reach Mr. Yan, as he doesn't want to be reached. Writing about Orientals, or just the Chinese version of them, and how they are the least prejudiced people in the world, and everyone else in his foreign adopted country should shut up, is his bit. It's working well, as it got him a couple of articles on unz. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." is a motto that seems to work well for Yan Shen and his little original piece of stupidity, and for Fred Reed quite often too.

    (I won't even mention the hard-core Commies who have columns here.)

    Yes, We are headed for very very deep trouble. And this trouble will cause some very deep permanent changes in this country, just as 09/11, and the housing crash did. Just as it happened in Greece, Venezuela, and Argentina; just as it did in Detroit, and Camden (and eventually Baltimore). But the violent racial polarization component is what will intensify & complicate our failing financial picture (just as the violence did in 1990s Balkans, Zimbabwe, or Somalia). We blame every other scapegoat, but are demanded to ignore those (afros) who are openly hostility to us, while demanding constant tribute (welfare entitlements). This is not sustainable, and ignoring it will not make it go away.

    As suburban/town/rural cops are made to be more aggressive in revenue collection activities, while the urban ghetto cops are made to stand down against afro atrocities (that are committed against the rest of society); As prisons are closed down due to the mythology of the “new jim crow”; as potholes in the roads grow bigger, the welfare checks will grow at even a faster rate. Government will try to squeeze every last cent out of us (prediction: electronic road tolls will eventually be put everywhere) to redistribute it to the insatiably ungrateful afro. They, by there own actions, are our biggest problem, and anything else is like trying to compare a match to an inferno. We did not choose this course, but was decided for us by the afro american, and their leftist masters.

    It is what it is. Anyone who has lived around them for a substantial period of time needs no explanation… and for the rest of you: don’t worry you will find out the hard way.

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  • @attilathehen
    There's that Jewish degeneracy. Jews have high intermarriage rates with blacks/Asians, so of course you think white/Asian interbreeding is kosher. It is not. Fortunately, most of this "white" - Asian inbreeding is taking place with Jews. Jews are haram and cannot be in the West. Derbyshire's interbreeding produced a son with problems who needed military service to straighten him out. Derb's Chinese daughter has an IQ of 100-105. Derb's Chinese tiger mama did not produce anything of value.

    You are as stupid, petty, and chickenshit mean as they come.

    And Ignored. Bye now.

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  • @Steve Gittelson

    I know very little about increasing obesity in China. But aside from the obvious intelligence angle, Asians seem to be far less likely to become drunks, get fat (compared to Americans), suffer poor health from other lifestyle choices, or become criminals (everything looks good compared to the black rate, but the white rate is roughly twice that of Asians if my memory serves).
     
    Yup. Picking up on your general trend of argument, if it be such, my personal conclusion is that European/American whites interbreeding with Asians should produce a superior hybrid human strain. And I don't see anything wrong with that.

    There’s that Jewish degeneracy. Jews have high intermarriage rates with blacks/Asians, so of course you think white/Asian interbreeding is kosher. It is not. Fortunately, most of this “white” – Asian inbreeding is taking place with Jews. Jews are haram and cannot be in the West. Derbyshire’s interbreeding produced a son with problems who needed military service to straighten him out. Derb’s Chinese daughter has an IQ of 100-105. Derb’s Chinese tiger mama did not produce anything of value.

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    • Replies: @Steve Gittelson
    You are as stupid, petty, and chickenshit mean as they come.

    And Ignored. Bye now.
    , @Rosamond Vincy
    Do you know either of his kids? It sounds like they both turned out just fine. A lot of people are difficult in adolescence; I certainly was. Better to be a struggling adolescent who grows into a fine young man than a high school overachiever who peaked at 16 and is never heard from again, or heard from on the evening news--for all the wrong reasons
    , @Bardon Kaldian
    I am against censorship, but such ad hominem vomit shouldn't have been posted.
    , @Corvinus
    "Derb’s Chinese tiger mama did not produce anything of value."

    God values all human beings, for there is value in their being and in their soul. So you would be stating something that directly counters His word.
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  • I agree that IQ is non-negligible, but I fail to see why some people, Derb included, attach so much importance to it.


    African-American IQ is supposed to be 85, while Indian- 82
    . Is this a joke? India is not a very functioning country, but does anyone with a minimum of common sense truly think that an imaginary independent country, comprised of blacks, could be as nearly developed as India (education, science, technology, tourism, levels of corruption, crime levels etc.)

    Mongolia- IQ 101.

    Germany-IQ 99

    Slovenia-IQ 96

    Iran-IQ 84

    So, Iran and India are, on average, dumber that American blacks?

    Hard to believe …

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Gittelson

    So, Iran and India are, on average, dumber that American blacks?
     
    Jeeze, Bardo, don't play the naif. The IQ business is, well, a lot like show business, but has a much smaller market. There's guys out there -- writers, researchers, commentators -- who need jobs, or some kinda income, ya know? The only subject on which they can bullshit interminably is IQ, inexhaustibly, while proving and demonstrating absolutely nothing. If any situation is a pure proof of the ability of idiots to transcend all useful function, IQ-ists stand unchallenged.

    On any given day of the week, the Kardashian industry rakes in more cash than all the squalling IQ-ists on seven continents and Malaysia. Does it not trouble you, however triflingly, that you and I, intelligent and informed personages though we be, engender some mils of income, some Zimbabwean largesse, to the forces of IQ-ism? Scoffing has no effect; pointing out the insignificance of minuscule statistical values long since swamped-out by situational and environmental realities ... well, it just does no good at all. They're like roaches -- there's always one the bug-spray doesn't reach.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Dissident
    @ attilathehen , #84:

    His infamous column about The Talk concerning blacks is unbelievable given the fact his Chinese wife and daughter voted for Obummer. He either didn’t have The Talk with them, or if he did they just ignored him.
     
    I'm not sure how you know that Derb's wife and daughter voted for Obama. But let's assume that they did. Couldn't another possible explanation for them doing so be that it was a result of their having taken "The Talk"-- specifically the part about befriending IWSBs-- too literally?

    You are a cowardly, bitter, evil woman.
     
    Isn't that a bit harsh, hen? Surely you must appreciate that not everyone is capable of the kind of courage, grace, kindness and all-around goodness that you so clearly exemplify.

    Oh, and in case you were wondering, yes, I am a Jew. Feel free to ignore me.

    “kind of courage, grace, kindness and all-around goodness that you so clearly exemplify..ignore me..” Aw, there’s that “Jewish wit” that reveals Jewish degeneracy. Just a reminder, Jews are not the smartest tribe ever. Jews had nothing to do with the development of Western civilization. Jews are not Western.

    Now, to Derbyshire. He wrote a column for Taki saying that he voted for Mutt Dumney to counter the votes of his Chinese wife and daughter. He said this was a “joke” in his household. Funny, now that’s comedy. He has a fifth column in his house. He has written that Asians are superior to whites. https://www.unz.com/jderbyshire/of-course-harvard-discriminates-against-asians/ The Chinese dump their people on the USA and refuse to take them back. Derbyshire wrote his book “We Are Doomed” which was just a realization of the doom in his house because of the Chinese people who populate it. These are the facts about Derbyshire.

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  • @Rosamond Vincy
    Cowardly?
    Physically, not much. Rode the NYC subway for years.
    Morally, don't recall having any trouble standing up to you. If I'm not arguing with some of the people you oppose, it's because their opinions aren't as deficient in logos and ethos.

    Evil? Probably not. Mixture of good and bad, as with most humans born into sin.

    Bitter.... hmmmm....
    Project much?

    “don’t recall having any trouble standing up to you…” Of course not, I’m not a Muslim, black, Asian.

    Do you still live in NYC, or did you escape the diversity? I’m still in a diverse, vibrating area as I plan to be a part of the reconquista. And, no, the RCC won’t be involved in the reconquista.

    You still can’t deal with the facts I point out about the RCC. What is your interest in the West?

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    • Replies: @Rosamond Vincy
    I'm in the Midwest, which is quite vibrant enough for everyone. (Vibrating would be California.)
    I stood up to plenty of "diverse" people on the subway. I was usually able to avoid confrontations by twitching and muttering about Cthulhu, but not always.

    As for the RCC, God created that as He did everything, and if the papacy is in that serious trouble, I doubt very much that you can improve on God's handiwork.
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  • @Daniel Chieh
    Haha, no. The Chinese population of Serbia increased over ten times in less than 4 years.

    But keep providing entertainment. Toodles!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_people_in_Serbia

    It’s less than 5000. Most are illegals as is the pattern in the USA. They don’t have Serbian citizenship so they can be deported. The visas you mentioned are meaningless. Glad you exposed yourself for the yellow peril you are.

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  • @attilathehen
    You are a cowardly, bitter, evil woman. You ally yourself with non-whites, non-Christians. Of course, being RCC is the problem. The good news is that China has broken the Chinese RCC ties with the Vatican. There is a schism. Cuck pope Frannie is ok with this. I have to give the Chinese credit for this. Eastern Europe is now separating from the West so many of the RCCers in Eastern Europe will convert to the Orthodox Church. The RCC is now a homosexual, Freemasonic, multi-culti grand lodge. The RCC will be pretty much gone in the USA by 2025. And yet, you cannot bring yourself to defend the West against blacks/Asians/Muslims by trying to the get the RCC to defend the West and its European populations. Unbelievable!!!

    Cowardly?
    Physically, not much. Rode the NYC subway for years.
    Morally, don’t recall having any trouble standing up to you. If I’m not arguing with some of the people you oppose, it’s because their opinions aren’t as deficient in logos and ethos.

    Evil? Probably not. Mixture of good and bad, as with most humans born into sin.

    Bitter…. hmmmm….
    Project much?

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    • Replies: @attilathehen
    "don’t recall having any trouble standing up to you..." Of course not, I'm not a Muslim, black, Asian.

    Do you still live in NYC, or did you escape the diversity? I'm still in a diverse, vibrating area as I plan to be a part of the reconquista. And, no, the RCC won't be involved in the reconquista.

    You still can't deal with the facts I point out about the RCC. What is your interest in the West?

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  • @res
    I liked this bit from Glenn Loury's article about Amy Wax:

    I will not state here whether I agree or disagree with Amy Wax's controversial opinions about affirmative action, about bourgeois culture, or about what are the appropriate remedies for past racial wrongs. I won't say, because it's completely irrelevant to the points I'm making here; and, because to state that "I certainly don't agree with Wax on A, B, or C, but … " would be to concede far too much to the thought police. It would be a transparent attempt to gain credibility with them before criticizing their reactions to Wax, and I refuse to acknowledge their authority over me in that way.
     
    The whole thing is definitely worth a read.

    I liked this bit from Glenn Loury’s article about Amy Wax:

    I will not state here whether I agree or disagree with Amy Wax’s controversial opinions about affirmative action, about bourgeois culture, or about what are the appropriate remedies for past racial wrongs. I won’t say, because it’s completely irrelevant to the points I’m making here; and, because to state that “I certainly don’t agree with Wax on A, B, or C, but … ” would be to concede far too much to the thought police

    Glenn Loury has always impressed me. Even though he’s a liberal, he’s a *genuine* public intellectual and he’s genuinely smart. I believe that he got his PhD in mathematical economics. I’m not saying that he’s a world class intellect. Just saying that he seems to be the kind of person who does belong at the table of smart people discussing public policy. He’s much smarter than McWhorter. He has internalized the “classical liberal” ideals and he defends them as his own ideas. The idea of free speech is something he seems to deeply and genuinely believe in.
    It’s not “external” to him. He just never comes across as disingenuous or fake. I like him.

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  • @Truth


    This, here (atillathehen), is someone clearly obsessed with race. Someone for whom race transcends all else.
     

    And this sets her apart here?

    And this sets her apart here?

    The vehement monomania is what sets the little nutjob apart. You know that. Ring a bell?

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  • @Svigor

    Blacks always stick up for each other, whether right or wrong. It’s called tribalism. If it were only one guy, say your age, I”d have him in a choke hold after a while even after taking some hits.

    Or, if I shot a bunch of them, then I’d never hear the end of it. Nah, I’ll just drive.
     
    It's weird because Blacks aren't collectivist at all. If I had to guess, I'd say that the continental races follow the usual Rushton pattern - in this case, Collectivism|Yellows-Whites-Blacks|Individualism. But this is complicated by circumstance. E.g., American Blacks are the conspicuous minority, and far less competent than the White majority. They're strongly enabled by Whites, too. But Blacks are very individualistic, inside that color line (and, to a lesser extent, outside it, in some ways).

    I think that with most blacks you have “tribalism + low trust”. Tribalism kicks in when it comes to reflexively opposing Whites, but interactions within the group itself can be very low trust.
    The extreme low trust also manifests itself in the way it’s very common in traditional african cultures to be extremely suspicious of close family members, because some of them might be “witches”.

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  • @Sunbeam
    I do not disagree with you at all.

    But it sure seems like Asians (and as you know when we say that, mostly we mean Chinese/Japanese/Koreans here) have far lesser propensity to ... destroy themselves with plenty or something.

    I know very little about increasing obesity in China. But aside from the obvious intelligence angle, Asians seem to be far less likely to become drunks, get fat (compared to Americans), suffer poor health from other lifestyle choices, or become criminals (everything looks good compared to the black rate, but the white rate is roughly twice that of Asians if my memory serves).

    In short out of all the groups I see they seem best able to cope with the modern world. Well if you aren't using the modern world to become Idiocracy.

    That said, what you wrote is eminently valid. There are a lot of things that seem to apply to the issues discussed on this board that are never referred to. It's genes, genes, genes all the way down.

    I know very little about increasing obesity in China. But aside from the obvious intelligence angle, Asians seem to be far less likely to become drunks, get fat (compared to Americans), suffer poor health from other lifestyle choices, or become criminals (everything looks good compared to the black rate, but the white rate is roughly twice that of Asians if my memory serves).

    Yup. Picking up on your general trend of argument, if it be such, my personal conclusion is that European/American whites interbreeding with Asians should produce a superior hybrid human strain. And I don’t see anything wrong with that.

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    • Replies: @attilathehen
    There's that Jewish degeneracy. Jews have high intermarriage rates with blacks/Asians, so of course you think white/Asian interbreeding is kosher. It is not. Fortunately, most of this "white" - Asian inbreeding is taking place with Jews. Jews are haram and cannot be in the West. Derbyshire's interbreeding produced a son with problems who needed military service to straighten him out. Derb's Chinese daughter has an IQ of 100-105. Derb's Chinese tiger mama did not produce anything of value.
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  • @Dissident
    @ Yan Shen:

    This, here (atillathehen), is someone clearly obsessed with race. Someone for whom race transcends all else. Someone who never misses an opportunity to level petty insults at any and all non-whites as well as any white who dares to defy or fall short of the level of ethno-narcissism that she demands from all whites.

    And you lump together, with someone like that, someone like John Derbyshire? Do you really not see how preposterous that is?

    All that said, perhaps, at this point-- after seeing you repeatedly characterize Derb as nothing more than "a white Ta-Nehisi Coates", after calling you out on such absurdity several times and receiving no response from you to my challenges... Well, at this point, perhaps, in making this post, I am revealing somewhat of a fixation on my part with your fixation on attacking Derb in service to an apparent insatiable need of yours to preen and virtue-signal.

    service to an apparent insatiable need of yours to preen and virtue-signal.

    Ref. Yan Shen … bingo. But, it’s okay. The world produces a never-ending supply of Yan Shens to provide us uglies with proper instruction.

    Just a suggestion … as you read his shtick, you will recognize he is saying the same things over and over again, in the “same BS, different application” format. Lots and lots of words; not a lick of proof.

    After awhile, you just laugh.

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  • @songbird
    Very true - there aren't any real incentives, just disincentives.

    I don't think of Thomas Sowell as a phony or as being in Conservative, Inc. though. He's been willing to voice some very un-PC sentiments, like 9/11 was caused by diversity. No phony would ever say that. He also says things like blacks were doing well before the '60s - an extremely disagreeable idea for many.

    He's not a race-realist, of course, but I don't take this as him lying but rather being delusional. Nobody - and I mean nobody - likes to be told they belong to a stupid group. Don't care how smart a guy is, it doesn't matter.

    Nobody – and I mean nobody – likes to be told they belong to a stupid group. Don’t care how smart a guy is, it doesn’t matter

    It may take a certain psychological disposition. I’m black but I accept most of the tenets of HBD that we all take for granted here. Because they make the most sense. I was the kind of kid who wondered “why are black countries so crappy?”. The answer to that question ended up being mostly explained by hbd and I had no choice but to accept hbd.

    It so happens that I come from a lineage of reasonably smart people who were part of the educated middle class in their country of origin. No risk of regression to IQ85 or IQ75 for me, so maybe I take it less personal than some other black people.

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  • @Daniel Chieh
    Haha, no. The Chinese population of Serbia increased over ten times in less than 4 years.

    But keep providing entertainment. Toodles!

    Haha, no. The Chinese population of Serbia increased over ten times in less than 4 years.

    Man, I really love diversity.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=serbian+population&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b

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  • @Yan Shen
    I don't doubt that blacks are an extremely difficult sub-population to integrate into any functioning society. I've been a proponent of HBD for most of my life. I don't expect blacks to start dominating USAMO or IMO any time soon.

    But my sense from having read some of the works of people like Thomas Sowell is that black Americans have declined by a variety of measures socially since the 1960s and the black family really has disintegrated since then. But really, modern day American cultural mores quite frankly suck in general, and I would extend that to be true of Hispanic and white Americans as well.

    To the extent that America can make the best out of a bad situation of having to integrate a black population of 40 million or so, I suspect the kind of Confucian paternalism as embodied by the Chinese guy in the YouTube video is probably the best possible approach. Quite frankly, left-wing and right-wing whites alike are all just insane when it comes to the matter of race in this country.

    Not that I would wish this burden upon any country, but sometimes I wonder if hypothetically an East Asian country had to integrate a 13% population of blacks how differently that might turn out than it has in the modern day US... Imagine in some parallel universe that this kind of A/B test could actually be run on a civilizational scale.

    As a race realist, obviously I'm dubious about whether or not various types of achievement gaps can ever be closed, but I do think that at least having a minimally functioning black population in this country might be possible given the right kind of cultural mores and discipline. Lee Kuan Yew was a staunch IQ realist right, but IIRC wasn't he also a huge believer in squeezing out every last bit of capability out of people through discipline?

    White nationalists mostly seem to get a huge kick out of endlessly mocking blacks, which quite frankly doesn't seem to me to be helpful in much of anything. Compare John Derbyshire's famous version of The Talk. Look at the YouTube video again of the Chinese guy lecturing to the African guy. Heck, even read this article here. I think you'll start to get a good sense of how different Eastern and non-Eastern cultural mores are today.

    http://www.unz.com/article/americas-cultural-revolution-the-obsession-with-self-esteem/

    Compare John Derbyshire’s famous version of The Talk. Look at the YouTube video again of the Chinese guy lecturing to the African guy

    But Whites have much more experience with Blacks. The whole pedagogic approach has probably been tried several times before.

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  • You should consciously seek opportunities to make friends with IWSBs. In addition to the ordinary pleasures of friendship, you will gain an amulet against potentially career-destroying accusations of prejudice.

    I have a White friend in academia who holds fairly racist views that he keeps very tightly under lid. I’m a Black male of caribbean origin. We go back quite a long time and I’ve told him explicitly that he can use me as an amulet if he gets accused of racism! We both think it’s a great troll! The troll is that people will think “well, if ogunsiron is his friend, he can’t be that racist!”.

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  • @Daniel Chieh
    It means that China will soon have dropping mental capabilities as its obesity increases :P

    https://health.usnews.com/wellness/slideshows/6-ways-obesity-can-weigh-on-the-brain

    One reason why I have mildly mocked a lot of "IQ realism" is that there's quite a few studies which show how mental acuity can be improved and a lot of it makes immediate sense(like, for example, improved blood flow to the brain will improve mental acuity). But it doesn't really seem like there's any society that wants to do anything to promote mental acuity.

    If you consider that intervention decreases dementia and the rather serious long-term issues of age-related cognitive decline in a time of aging populations, the lack of effort seems even more mystifying.

    I do not disagree with you at all.

    But it sure seems like Asians (and as you know when we say that, mostly we mean Chinese/Japanese/Koreans here) have far lesser propensity to … destroy themselves with plenty or something.

    I know very little about increasing obesity in China. But aside from the obvious intelligence angle, Asians seem to be far less likely to become drunks, get fat (compared to Americans), suffer poor health from other lifestyle choices, or become criminals (everything looks good compared to the black rate, but the white rate is roughly twice that of Asians if my memory serves).

    In short out of all the groups I see they seem best able to cope with the modern world. Well if you aren’t using the modern world to become Idiocracy.

    That said, what you wrote is eminently valid. There are a lot of things that seem to apply to the issues discussed on this board that are never referred to. It’s genes, genes, genes all the way down.

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    • Replies: @Steve Gittelson

    I know very little about increasing obesity in China. But aside from the obvious intelligence angle, Asians seem to be far less likely to become drunks, get fat (compared to Americans), suffer poor health from other lifestyle choices, or become criminals (everything looks good compared to the black rate, but the white rate is roughly twice that of Asians if my memory serves).
     
    Yup. Picking up on your general trend of argument, if it be such, my personal conclusion is that European/American whites interbreeding with Asians should produce a superior hybrid human strain. And I don't see anything wrong with that.
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  • @Sunbeam
    "I thought his position was more along the lines of: in a relatively free society with practically limitless food resources, some fraction of the population will reliably gorge themselves to death because they’re genetically predisposed to do so, and no amount of diet and exercise intervention – short of completely stripping these people of their freedom to eat/do what they want – is going to have much of an impact. He didn’t quite put it that way but that was the only reading that made sense to me."

    That has ... call it the ring of truthiness maybe? But if that is the situation,

    1) What exactly are the implications? Not just for obesity but for other traits that have bad consequences under the conditions we live our live today?

    Are Asians now the perfect people, the ones most suited for modernity?

    Just really can't wrap my head around it totally.

    2) What exactly were the environmental conditions where the trait for "some fraction of the population will reliably gorge themselves to death because they’re genetically predisposed to do so," ever a survival feature exactly?

    Gotta eat all that dead mammoth or elephant before it goes bad? Load up on the kernels of the ancestors of wheat since you found a patch somewhere, and you can't take a proto-wheat field with you?

    It means that China will soon have dropping mental capabilities as its obesity increases :P

    https://health.usnews.com/wellness/slideshows/6-ways-obesity-can-weigh-on-the-brain

    One reason why I have mildly mocked a lot of “IQ realism” is that there’s quite a few studies which show how mental acuity can be improved and a lot of it makes immediate sense(like, for example, improved blood flow to the brain will improve mental acuity). But it doesn’t really seem like there’s any society that wants to do anything to promote mental acuity.

    If you consider that intervention decreases dementia and the rather serious long-term issues of age-related cognitive decline in a time of aging populations, the lack of effort seems even more mystifying.

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    • Replies: @Sunbeam
    I do not disagree with you at all.

    But it sure seems like Asians (and as you know when we say that, mostly we mean Chinese/Japanese/Koreans here) have far lesser propensity to ... destroy themselves with plenty or something.

    I know very little about increasing obesity in China. But aside from the obvious intelligence angle, Asians seem to be far less likely to become drunks, get fat (compared to Americans), suffer poor health from other lifestyle choices, or become criminals (everything looks good compared to the black rate, but the white rate is roughly twice that of Asians if my memory serves).

    In short out of all the groups I see they seem best able to cope with the modern world. Well if you aren't using the modern world to become Idiocracy.

    That said, what you wrote is eminently valid. There are a lot of things that seem to apply to the issues discussed on this board that are never referred to. It's genes, genes, genes all the way down.
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  • @Dissident
    @ Yan Shen:

    This, here (atillathehen), is someone clearly obsessed with race. Someone for whom race transcends all else. Someone who never misses an opportunity to level petty insults at any and all non-whites as well as any white who dares to defy or fall short of the level of ethno-narcissism that she demands from all whites.

    And you lump together, with someone like that, someone like John Derbyshire? Do you really not see how preposterous that is?

    All that said, perhaps, at this point-- after seeing you repeatedly characterize Derb as nothing more than "a white Ta-Nehisi Coates", after calling you out on such absurdity several times and receiving no response from you to my challenges... Well, at this point, perhaps, in making this post, I am revealing somewhat of a fixation on my part with your fixation on attacking Derb in service to an apparent insatiable need of yours to preen and virtue-signal.

    Someone who never misses an opportunity to level petty insults at any and all non-whites as well as any white who dares to defy or fall short of the level of ethno-narcissism that she demands from all whites.

    LMFAO!

    Yeah Tillie, you need to go to just insulting blacks.

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  • @Dissident
    @ Yan Shen:

    This, here (atillathehen), is someone clearly obsessed with race. Someone for whom race transcends all else. Someone who never misses an opportunity to level petty insults at any and all non-whites as well as any white who dares to defy or fall short of the level of ethno-narcissism that she demands from all whites.

    And you lump together, with someone like that, someone like John Derbyshire? Do you really not see how preposterous that is?

    All that said, perhaps, at this point-- after seeing you repeatedly characterize Derb as nothing more than "a white Ta-Nehisi Coates", after calling you out on such absurdity several times and receiving no response from you to my challenges... Well, at this point, perhaps, in making this post, I am revealing somewhat of a fixation on my part with your fixation on attacking Derb in service to an apparent insatiable need of yours to preen and virtue-signal.

    This, here (atillathehen), is someone clearly obsessed with race. Someone for whom race transcends all else.

    And this sets her apart here?

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    • Replies: @Steve Gittelson

    And this sets her apart here?
     
    The vehement monomania is what sets the little nutjob apart. You know that. Ring a bell?
    , @attilathehen
    Truth, you once commented why you thought it was so strange for commentators to attack me for wanting Caucasian men and Caucasian women to marry. These degenerate commentators find it so strange I am for the West and the various people who comprise it. I have proven that Derbyshire stated Asians are smarter than whites. I don't know why he continues to live in the West. Daniel Chieh got angry because I told him he should send his daughters to China since the Chinese aborted so many female fetuses and males greatly outnumber females (and he's Chinese!!!). Steve Gittleson got angry because I pointed out that he is a Jew and Jews have high intermarriage rates with blacks/Asians. Rosamund is angry because I told her a black/Asian pope is unacceptable in the West. They will refuse the reality of IQ as it relates to race. They refuse to acknowledge the West is best. They can't deal with the truth (no pun intended).
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  • @attilathehen
    WOW!!! Chinese brain (oxymoron) at work. It's just trade you idiot. They are not going to allow Asians to move into their countries. They are nationalistic countries. Move back to China. If you have daughters, the Chinese males need women. Derbyshire needs to send his daughter to China.

    Now that’s what I’m talking about!

    Damn the torpedo’s Tillie, full speed ahead!

    Please show these milqtoast, weak, phony, afraid-to-be-offensive, gen-x, “alt-righters” what the REAL right wing stands for.

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  • @joef

    As far as I can see non-East Asians in American today love obsessing over race, blacks, Hispanics, and whites alike. The only thing I see East Asians obsessing over are Tiger Mother values and whether or not Harvard discriminates against the
     
    Actually it is afro americans who continuously obsess over race that the rest of us are forced to adapt & respond to. In addition leftist progs praise & pander to afro americans in an ad nauseam manner, through the MSM/academia (to which the rest of us are forced to listen to). There is also the consequences of bad afro behavior that leads to crime, welfare costs, falling property value, revisionist history, affirmative action, and overlooked afro incompetence, that we are all forced to tolerate.

    If we were not forced to integrate with them, pay for them, and endlessly hear about them (with their fake grievances against society, which continuously cares for & feeds them), while suffering from their ubiquitous felonious activity, we would not care to think about them at all.

    Its time to end this progressive half century long national dialogue on race. Fifty years of indulging afro americans have yielded nothing but negative results. And I for one (along with many others) would be very happy to never talk about them again (but of course they will not let that happen). Exercising a freedom of association by avoiding radicalized afro americans would be generally prefered by most people.

    Actually it is afro americans who continuously obsess over race that the rest of us are forced to adapt & respond to.

    LOL

    “Teacher, he started it!”

    “Both of you to the Principal’s office.”

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  • @Corvinus
    "Do you believe that people are blank slates, or that the genetics of a person can influence their behavior significantly (e.g. IQ, propensity towards crime, etc)?"

    I believe that a person's talents and behaviors are due to the combination of genetics and environment.

    > I believe that a person’s talents and behaviors are due to the combination of genetics and environment.

    As do I. In the US, we spend a large sum of money to try to create the best environment possible for all. It’s hardly perfect, but I think it’s fair to say that at this point, most children are limited more by their talent than their environment.

    If you accept income as a rough (certainly imperfect) proxy for “talent”, and you accept that fertility rates are higher for low-income people, do you see a problem? If so, do you think that there is anything to be done about this, or it’s something we just have to accept in an ethical society?

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  • @joef

    Listen up, IWSBs: There’s an opening here for some brave soul among you to embrace race realism
     
    Unfortunately this will not happen. I have encountered many IWSBs in my life, but not many who are unafraid of being labeled an uncle tom (just as Non Blacks are fearful of being called racist). IWSBs are like most college educated Whites who prefer to follow fashionable limo liberalism, instead of taking a stand of recognizing reality.

    They also feel that if they acknowledge the racial reality they are betraying their fellow afro americans. So do not expect any assistance from IWSBs in reforming radical afro american dysfunctions anytime soon (anymore then from educated White libs).

    Thus the problem will only get worse with self serving politicians promoting the quid pro quo of increasing welfare promises, and racial pandering, for votes. As this escalating never ending entitlement system moves us ever closer to national bankruptcy (the cities will go first), we will eventually come to a point of financial breakdown. This will lead to the inability to service the entitlement system.

    Most afro americans inculcated with the radical hate whitey (blame whitey) ideology, and totally ignorant of the economic concept of scarcity, will never accept receiving less welfare (or no welfare). Compounding the eventual bank runs, and food/fuel/meds shortages, will be uncontainable afro animosity that initiates a race war. That is our future, unless we change this unsustainable course. And we are obviously not changing this course, we are instead accelerating towards this demise.

    The IWSBs who are not leftist progressives, nor limo libs, are the true lonely voice in the crowd, and have much to lose in the system wide collapse, with an afro initiated race war, as the rest of us. The resultant Non Blacks incorporating a shoot first, ask questions later, attitude towards all Blacks, these IWSBs will suffer the most for it.

    All this will be a terrible struggle, that could have been completely avoided if leftist progs did not push identify politics, and irresponsible government spending practices, for the last half century. Pray that I am wrong (but prepare in case I am correct).

    It’s good to read from another prepper here. It seems like many on iSteve , Derb, etc. are awoke as far as racial issues but not very much on the big financial picture. Yours have been good comments all around, JoeF, and regarding the one below, it makes perfect sense and explains things better than I did.

    However, you’re not going to reach Mr. Yan, as he doesn’t want to be reached. Writing about Orientals, or just the Chinese version of them, and how they are the least prejudiced people in the world, and everyone else in his foreign adopted country should shut up, is his bit. It’s working well, as it got him a couple of articles on unz. “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.” is a motto that seems to work well for Yan Shen and his little original piece of stupidity, and for Fred Reed quite often too.

    (I won’t even mention the hard-core Commies who have columns here.)

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    • Replies: @joef
    Yes, We are headed for very very deep trouble. And this trouble will cause some very deep permanent changes in this country, just as 09/11, and the housing crash did. Just as it happened in Greece, Venezuela, and Argentina; just as it did in Detroit, and Camden (and eventually Baltimore). But the violent racial polarization component is what will intensify & complicate our failing financial picture (just as the violence did in 1990s Balkans, Zimbabwe, or Somalia). We blame every other scapegoat, but are demanded to ignore those (afros) who are openly hostility to us, while demanding constant tribute (welfare entitlements). This is not sustainable, and ignoring it will not make it go away.

    As suburban/town/rural cops are made to be more aggressive in revenue collection activities, while the urban ghetto cops are made to stand down against afro atrocities (that are committed against the rest of society); As prisons are closed down due to the mythology of the "new jim crow"; as potholes in the roads grow bigger, the welfare checks will grow at even a faster rate. Government will try to squeeze every last cent out of us (prediction: electronic road tolls will eventually be put everywhere) to redistribute it to the insatiably ungrateful afro. They, by there own actions, are our biggest problem, and anything else is like trying to compare a match to an inferno. We did not choose this course, but was decided for us by the afro american, and their leftist masters.

    It is what it is. Anyone who has lived around them for a substantial period of time needs no explanation... and for the rest of you: don't worry you will find out the hard way.

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  • @attilathehen
    WOW!!! Chinese brain (oxymoron) at work. It's just trade you idiot. They are not going to allow Asians to move into their countries. They are nationalistic countries. Move back to China. If you have daughters, the Chinese males need women. Derbyshire needs to send his daughter to China.

    Haha, no. The Chinese population of Serbia increased over ten times in less than 4 years.

    But keep providing entertainment. Toodles!

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    • Replies: @Truth
    Haha, no. The Chinese population of Serbia increased over ten times in less than 4 years.

    Man, I really love diversity.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=serbian+population&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b
    , @attilathehen
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_people_in_Serbia

    It's less than 5000. Most are illegals as is the pattern in the USA. They don't have Serbian citizenship so they can be deported. The visas you mentioned are meaningless. Glad you exposed yourself for the yellow peril you are.
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  • @ Yan Shen:

    This, here (atillathehen), is someone clearly obsessed with race. Someone for whom race transcends all else. Someone who never misses an opportunity to level petty insults at any and all non-whites as well as any white who dares to defy or fall short of the level of ethno-narcissism that she demands from all whites.

    And you lump together, with someone like that, someone like John Derbyshire? Do you really not see how preposterous that is?

    All that said, perhaps, at this point– after seeing you repeatedly characterize Derb as nothing more than “a white Ta-Nehisi Coates”, after calling you out on such absurdity several times and receiving no response from you to my challenges… Well, at this point, perhaps, in making this post, I am revealing somewhat of a fixation on my part with your fixation on attacking Derb in service to an apparent insatiable need of yours to preen and virtue-signal.

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    • Replies: @Truth


    This, here (atillathehen), is someone clearly obsessed with race. Someone for whom race transcends all else.
     

    And this sets her apart here?
    , @Truth

    Someone who never misses an opportunity to level petty insults at any and all non-whites as well as any white who dares to defy or fall short of the level of ethno-narcissism that she demands from all whites.
     
    LMFAO!

    Yeah Tillie, you need to go to just insulting blacks.
    , @Steve Gittelson

    service to an apparent insatiable need of yours to preen and virtue-signal.
     
    Ref. Yan Shen ... bingo. But, it's okay. The world produces a never-ending supply of Yan Shens to provide us uglies with proper instruction.

    Just a suggestion ... as you read his shtick, you will recognize he is saying the same things over and over again, in the "same BS, different application" format. Lots and lots of words; not a lick of proof.

    After awhile, you just laugh.
    , @Yan Shen
    Well I don't recall ever lumping Mr. Derbyshire together with that insane atillathehen character. She's obviously on an entirely different plane of bad compared to almost anyone else on planet earth. I have drawn a comparison between Mr. Derbyshire and Ta Nehisi Coates though.

    In case I didn't make myself clear before, obviously Mr. Derbyshire is significantly smarter than Mr. Coates and possesses a much broader body of knowledge touching upon areas such as China or the history of mathematics. Meanwhile Mr. Coates' body of knowledge is entirely one dimensional and basically revolves around race and being black and how fascinating it is to inhabit a black body.

    That being said, it's also clear to me that one of Mr. Derbyshire's character shortcomings, in my opinion, is his strange fascination with blacks. In that respect, I don't think his other body of work necessarily negates that. Hence why I drew the comparison.

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  • @ attilathehen , #84:

    His infamous column about The Talk concerning blacks is unbelievable given the fact his Chinese wife and daughter voted for Obummer. He either didn’t have The Talk with them, or if he did they just ignored him.

    I’m not sure how you know that Derb’s wife and daughter voted for Obama. But let’s assume that they did. Couldn’t another possible explanation for them doing so be that it was a result of their having taken “The Talk”– specifically the part about befriending IWSBs– too literally?

    You are a cowardly, bitter, evil woman.

    Isn’t that a bit harsh, hen? Surely you must appreciate that not everyone is capable of the kind of courage, grace, kindness and all-around goodness that you so clearly exemplify.

    Oh, and in case you were wondering, yes, I am a Jew. Feel free to ignore me.

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    • Replies: @attilathehen
    "kind of courage, grace, kindness and all-around goodness that you so clearly exemplify..ignore me.." Aw, there's that "Jewish wit" that reveals Jewish degeneracy. Just a reminder, Jews are not the smartest tribe ever. Jews had nothing to do with the development of Western civilization. Jews are not Western.

    Now, to Derbyshire. He wrote a column for Taki saying that he voted for Mutt Dumney to counter the votes of his Chinese wife and daughter. He said this was a "joke" in his household. Funny, now that's comedy. He has a fifth column in his house. He has written that Asians are superior to whites. https://www.unz.com/jderbyshire/of-course-harvard-discriminates-against-asians/ The Chinese dump their people on the USA and refuse to take them back. Derbyshire wrote his book "We Are Doomed" which was just a realization of the doom in his house because of the Chinese people who populate it. These are the facts about Derbyshire.
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  • @Daniel Chieh
    Eastern Europe is so fully on board with the New Silk Road that they are basically in China's bloc. For one example, travel between Serbia and China is visaless.

    Watch you keep slamming your stupidity in your own face is highly entertaining.

    WOW!!! Chinese brain (oxymoron) at work. It’s just trade you idiot. They are not going to allow Asians to move into their countries. They are nationalistic countries. Move back to China. If you have daughters, the Chinese males need women. Derbyshire needs to send his daughter to China.

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    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Haha, no. The Chinese population of Serbia increased over ten times in less than 4 years.

    But keep providing entertainment. Toodles!
    , @Truth
    Now that's what I'm talking about!

    Damn the torpedo's Tillie, full speed ahead!

    Please show these milqtoast, weak, phony, afraid-to-be-offensive, gen-x, "alt-righters" what the REAL right wing stands for.

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  • @Yan Shen
    Here's a comment of mine from another thread where some writer accused Chinese people of being racist towards blacks.

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/will-kobe-bryant-save-china-from-racism/#comment-1983641

    You're correct many Chinese don't hold blacks in high regard. But they mostly consider blacks to be lazy and unmotivated, in the context that if blacks adopted the right attitudes and values they would be able to succeed.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtsa0MT2H4I

    Here's a somewhat famous YouTube clip that I think is representative of a lot of what gets misconstrued as Asian racism against blacks. In fact, a lot of white nationalist types eagerly jumped on this clip as an example of a Chinese guy telling a black guy that blacks weren't capable of anything, which obviously from the video is a highly flawed interpretation.

    While European colonialists mostly brutalized Africans and denounced their supposed inferiority, the Chinese today seem to have much more of a no-nonsense, almost pragmatic and paternalist attitude towards African blacks in their dealings. So yes, if they see that blacks aren't doing the right things in life, they won't hesitate to call a spade a spade. But this is often motivated by a sense of Confucian paternalism and a desire to impart wisdom upon the African population, in the same sense that a Tiger Mother might harshly critique her own children if she feels like they aren't getting themselves up to par.

    http://www.unz.com/article/americas-cultural-revolution-the-obsession-with-self-esteem/

    As far as I can see non-East Asians in American today love obsessing over race, blacks, Hispanics, and whites alike. The only thing I see East Asians obsessing over are Tiger Mother values and whether or not Harvard discriminates against them.

    As far as I can see non-East Asians in American today love obsessing over race, blacks, Hispanics, and whites alike. The only thing I see East Asians obsessing over are Tiger Mother values and whether or not Harvard discriminates against the

    Actually it is afro americans who continuously obsess over race that the rest of us are forced to adapt & respond to. In addition leftist progs praise & pander to afro americans in an ad nauseam manner, through the MSM/academia (to which the rest of us are forced to listen to). There is also the consequences of bad afro behavior that leads to crime, welfare costs, falling property value, revisionist history, affirmative action, and overlooked afro incompetence, that we are all forced to tolerate.

    If we were not forced to integrate with them, pay for them, and endlessly hear about them (with their fake grievances against society, which continuously cares for & feeds them), while suffering from their ubiquitous felonious activity, we would not care to think about them at all.

    Its time to end this progressive half century long national dialogue on race. Fifty years of indulging afro americans have yielded nothing but negative results. And I for one (along with many others) would be very happy to never talk about them again (but of course they will not let that happen). Exercising a freedom of association by avoiding radicalized afro americans would be generally prefered by most people.

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    • Replies: @Truth

    Actually it is afro americans who continuously obsess over race that the rest of us are forced to adapt & respond to.
     
    LOL

    "Teacher, he started it!"

    "Both of you to the Principal's office."
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  • @attilathehen
    You are a cowardly, bitter, evil woman. You ally yourself with non-whites, non-Christians. Of course, being RCC is the problem. The good news is that China has broken the Chinese RCC ties with the Vatican. There is a schism. Cuck pope Frannie is ok with this. I have to give the Chinese credit for this. Eastern Europe is now separating from the West so many of the RCCers in Eastern Europe will convert to the Orthodox Church. The RCC is now a homosexual, Freemasonic, multi-culti grand lodge. The RCC will be pretty much gone in the USA by 2025. And yet, you cannot bring yourself to defend the West against blacks/Asians/Muslims by trying to the get the RCC to defend the West and its European populations. Unbelievable!!!

    Eastern Europe is so fully on board with the New Silk Road that they are basically in China’s bloc. For one example, travel between Serbia and China is visaless.

    Watch you keep slamming your stupidity in your own face is highly entertaining.

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    • Replies: @attilathehen
    WOW!!! Chinese brain (oxymoron) at work. It's just trade you idiot. They are not going to allow Asians to move into their countries. They are nationalistic countries. Move back to China. If you have daughters, the Chinese males need women. Derbyshire needs to send his daughter to China.
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  • Listen up, IWSBs: There’s an opening here for some brave soul among you to embrace race realism

    Unfortunately this will not happen. I have encountered many IWSBs in my life, but not many who are unafraid of being labeled an uncle tom (just as Non Blacks are fearful of being called racist). IWSBs are like most college educated Whites who prefer to follow fashionable limo liberalism, instead of taking a stand of recognizing reality.

    They also feel that if they acknowledge the racial reality they are betraying their fellow afro americans. So do not expect any assistance from IWSBs in reforming radical afro american dysfunctions anytime soon (anymore then from educated White libs).

    Thus the problem will only get worse with self serving politicians promoting the quid pro quo of increasing welfare promises, and racial pandering, for votes. As this escalating never ending entitlement system moves us ever closer to national bankruptcy (the cities will go first), we will eventually come to a point of financial breakdown. This will lead to the inability to service the entitlement system.

    Most afro americans inculcated with the radical hate whitey (blame whitey) ideology, and totally ignorant of the economic concept of scarcity, will never accept receiving less welfare (or no welfare). Compounding the eventual bank runs, and food/fuel/meds shortages, will be uncontainable afro animosity that initiates a race war. That is our future, unless we change this unsustainable course. And we are obviously not changing this course, we are instead accelerating towards this demise.

    The IWSBs who are not leftist progressives, nor limo libs, are the true lonely voice in the crowd, and have much to lose in the system wide collapse, with an afro initiated race war, as the rest of us. The resultant Non Blacks incorporating a shoot first, ask questions later, attitude towards all Blacks, these IWSBs will suffer the most for it.

    All this will be a terrible struggle, that could have been completely avoided if leftist progs did not push identify politics, and irresponsible government spending practices, for the last half century. Pray that I am wrong (but prepare in case I am correct).

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    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    It's good to read from another prepper here. It seems like many on iSteve , Derb, etc. are awoke as far as racial issues but not very much on the big financial picture. Yours have been good comments all around, JoeF, and regarding the one below, it makes perfect sense and explains things better than I did.

    However, you're not going to reach Mr. Yan, as he doesn't want to be reached. Writing about Orientals, or just the Chinese version of them, and how they are the least prejudiced people in the world, and everyone else in his foreign adopted country should shut up, is his bit. It's working well, as it got him a couple of articles on unz. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." is a motto that seems to work well for Yan Shen and his little original piece of stupidity, and for Fred Reed quite often too.

    (I won't even mention the hard-core Commies who have columns here.)

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  • @megabar
    > No, it’s people who have built society

    Sure. In these discussions, it gets wordy to properly qualify every single sentence, so shortcuts are often used. I have great respect for many non-white accomplishments, and for many non-white people.

    > ...then you must be willing to accept that whites have also caused a tremendous amount of disruption and destruction.

    Obviously. White fetishists are blinded, just as are blank-slatists.

    > It’s not a “typical white society”, it’s just a society.

    I'm not sure about that. I believe that culture and genetics are interrelated. People tend to build certain types of societies that match their makeup, and those societies can exert pressure on the types of people who will have kids. Is it a coincidence that most European countries look pretty similar, and that few other countries look like them?

    > Is it OK for white people to exercise their freedom of association to make their own decisions about race and culture without being labeled a “cuck” or “race traitor”?

    I think you have a preconceived perception of how I think. Of course, you can form your own opinions. I don't believe I've painted progressives' motives or abilities in any particular light. I do, however, think that progressivism, as a set of policies, is destructive to modern society.

    Do you believe that people are blank slates, or that the genetics of a person can influence their behavior significantly (e.g. IQ, propensity towards crime, etc)?

    “Do you believe that people are blank slates, or that the genetics of a person can influence their behavior significantly (e.g. IQ, propensity towards crime, etc)?”

    I believe that a person’s talents and behaviors are due to the combination of genetics and environment.

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    • Replies: @megabar
    > I believe that a person’s talents and behaviors are due to the combination of genetics and environment.

    As do I. In the US, we spend a large sum of money to try to create the best environment possible for all. It's hardly perfect, but I think it's fair to say that at this point, most children are limited more by their talent than their environment.

    If you accept income as a rough (certainly imperfect) proxy for "talent", and you accept that fertility rates are higher for low-income people, do you see a problem? If so, do you think that there is anything to be done about this, or it's something we just have to accept in an ethical society?
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  • @Rosamond Vincy
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=m3yqgRyHkSU

    You are a cowardly, bitter, evil woman. You ally yourself with non-whites, non-Christians. Of course, being RCC is the problem. The good news is that China has broken the Chinese RCC ties with the Vatican. There is a schism. Cuck pope Frannie is ok with this. I have to give the Chinese credit for this. Eastern Europe is now separating from the West so many of the RCCers in Eastern Europe will convert to the Orthodox Church. The RCC is now a homosexual, Freemasonic, multi-culti grand lodge. The RCC will be pretty much gone in the USA by 2025. And yet, you cannot bring yourself to defend the West against blacks/Asians/Muslims by trying to the get the RCC to defend the West and its European populations. Unbelievable!!!

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    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Eastern Europe is so fully on board with the New Silk Road that they are basically in China's bloc. For one example, travel between Serbia and China is visaless.

    Watch you keep slamming your stupidity in your own face is highly entertaining.
    , @Rosamond Vincy
    Cowardly?
    Physically, not much. Rode the NYC subway for years.
    Morally, don't recall having any trouble standing up to you. If I'm not arguing with some of the people you oppose, it's because their opinions aren't as deficient in logos and ethos.

    Evil? Probably not. Mixture of good and bad, as with most humans born into sin.

    Bitter.... hmmmm....
    Project much?
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  • @Yan Shen
    Are you married to anyone or are all you alone by yourself with your cats and your extensively compiled dossiers of who other people are married to?

    I have a kosher Western husband and no cats.

    You are Eastern, Asian, Chinese (?), not Caucasian, European, white. You are haram and don’t belong in the West.

    Information on cucks like Derbyshire is easy to obtain. He writes about his Chinese wife and offspring constantly. Same with the other people I cited. None of these people are Western, Caucasian, European, white, neo-pagan. Their opinions about blacks in the West are worthless and unworthy of consideration.

    Derbyshire was a kosher gentile but he went native when he imported a Chinese woman. He has written that Asians are superior to whites. I don’t have a clue as to why he remains in a Western nation. He can take his family to some Asian country. His infamous column about The Talk concerning blacks is unbelievable given the fact his Chinese wife and daughter voted for Obummer. He either didn’t have The Talk with them, or if he did they just ignored him. He’s a hen-pecked cuck.

    He scribbles about the West but he is part of the problem which is destroying the West – the importation of a Chinese woman and Chinese offspring.

    I point out facts. You cannot deal with facts.

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  • @Steve Gittelson

    I absolutely agree with you that one of the biggest concerns for this country a few decades down the line will be how America operates once blacks and Hispanics become the combined majority in this country.
     
    Blacks and generic mexicans, combined, are already a majority. 40% + 13% = 53%. Get real, man, there are 80-100 million generic Mexicans, at least. 10 million per year crossing the border since 1980. It adds up. The government stats are pure lies, penciled-in by whatever current administration. All major cities in the US are heavily infested with illegals, mostly messicans, from the inner city out to the near 'burbs. For any intent or purpose, the invasion has succeeded and it's all over but for the granting of citizenship and voting rights. Ten years, and it will all be legal on paper, too. America is over.

    Messicans and blacks don't mix. Not much, anyway. Mexicans are sufficiently sang-froid to simply put a Negro-extermination program into action. I find it a bit amusing that the alt-right's night horrors of "feral blacks" are to be replaced by the reality of patiently-feral messicans.

    Are you Jewish?

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  • @Corvinus
    "If you believe in HBD, and you like the type of society that whites have typically built..."

    No, it's people who have built society. More specifically in the case of the United States, it was different ethnic groups, in particular those from Europe. Listen, if you want whites to take credit for everything grand in the world, then you must be willing to accept that whites have also caused a tremendous amount of disruption and destruction.

    "This change is not reversible in any realistic and ethical solution that I’ve heard. Further, because it is happening to practically every Western society, there isn’t an obvious backup plan for whites who want to live in a typical white society."

    It's not a "typical white society", it's just a society.

    Now, I am asking for a friend--Is it OK for white people to exercise their freedom of association to make their own decisions about race and culture without being labeled a "cuck" or "race traitor"?

    > No, it’s people who have built society

    Sure. In these discussions, it gets wordy to properly qualify every single sentence, so shortcuts are often used. I have great respect for many non-white accomplishments, and for many non-white people.

    > …then you must be willing to accept that whites have also caused a tremendous amount of disruption and destruction.

    Obviously. White fetishists are blinded, just as are blank-slatists.

    > It’s not a “typical white society”, it’s just a society.

    I’m not sure about that. I believe that culture and genetics are interrelated. People tend to build certain types of societies that match their makeup, and those societies can exert pressure on the types of people who will have kids. Is it a coincidence that most European countries look pretty similar, and that few other countries look like them?

    > Is it OK for white people to exercise their freedom of association to make their own decisions about race and culture without being labeled a “cuck” or “race traitor”?

    I think you have a preconceived perception of how I think. Of course, you can form your own opinions. I don’t believe I’ve painted progressives’ motives or abilities in any particular light. I do, however, think that progressivism, as a set of policies, is destructive to modern society.

    Do you believe that people are blank slates, or that the genetics of a person can influence their behavior significantly (e.g. IQ, propensity towards crime, etc)?

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    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "Do you believe that people are blank slates, or that the genetics of a person can influence their behavior significantly (e.g. IQ, propensity towards crime, etc)?"

    I believe that a person's talents and behaviors are due to the combination of genetics and environment.

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Corvinus
    "If you believe in HBD, and you like the type of society that whites have typically built..."

    No, it's people who have built society. More specifically in the case of the United States, it was different ethnic groups, in particular those from Europe. Listen, if you want whites to take credit for everything grand in the world, then you must be willing to accept that whites have also caused a tremendous amount of disruption and destruction.

    "This change is not reversible in any realistic and ethical solution that I’ve heard. Further, because it is happening to practically every Western society, there isn’t an obvious backup plan for whites who want to live in a typical white society."

    It's not a "typical white society", it's just a society.

    Now, I am asking for a friend--Is it OK for white people to exercise their freedom of association to make their own decisions about race and culture without being labeled a "cuck" or "race traitor"?

    Is it OK for white people to exercise their freedom of association to make their own decisions about race and culture without being labeled a “cuck” or “race traitor”?

    Why would one ask such a question in the first place? Any decision I make on those topics is my goddamn business. The correct (Always!) response to any accusation of “race traitor” is “Go fuck yourself.” The correct (Always!) response to any accusation of “cuckiness” is “Go fuck yourself, you ignorant asshole.”

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  • @larry lurker

    You can see this in Jayman’s absurd debates with Dennis Mangan on Twitter in which Jayman asserts that obesity is genetic and it’s pointless to even bother with diet or exercise.
     
    I thought his position was more along the lines of: in a relatively free society with practically limitless food resources, some fraction of the population will reliably gorge themselves to death because they're genetically predisposed to do so, and no amount of diet and exercise intervention - short of completely stripping these people of their freedom to eat/do what they want - is going to have much of an impact. He didn't quite put it that way but that was the only reading that made sense to me.

    “I thought his position was more along the lines of: in a relatively free society with practically limitless food resources, some fraction of the population will reliably gorge themselves to death because they’re genetically predisposed to do so, and no amount of diet and exercise intervention – short of completely stripping these people of their freedom to eat/do what they want – is going to have much of an impact. He didn’t quite put it that way but that was the only reading that made sense to me.”

    That has … call it the ring of truthiness maybe? But if that is the situation,

    1) What exactly are the implications? Not just for obesity but for other traits that have bad consequences under the conditions we live our live today?

    Are Asians now the perfect people, the ones most suited for modernity?

    Just really can’t wrap my head around it totally.

    2) What exactly were the environmental conditions where the trait for “some fraction of the population will reliably gorge themselves to death because they’re genetically predisposed to do so,” ever a survival feature exactly?

    Gotta eat all that dead mammoth or elephant before it goes bad? Load up on the kernels of the ancestors of wheat since you found a patch somewhere, and you can’t take a proto-wheat field with you?

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    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    It means that China will soon have dropping mental capabilities as its obesity increases :P

    https://health.usnews.com/wellness/slideshows/6-ways-obesity-can-weigh-on-the-brain

    One reason why I have mildly mocked a lot of "IQ realism" is that there's quite a few studies which show how mental acuity can be improved and a lot of it makes immediate sense(like, for example, improved blood flow to the brain will improve mental acuity). But it doesn't really seem like there's any society that wants to do anything to promote mental acuity.

    If you consider that intervention decreases dementia and the rather serious long-term issues of age-related cognitive decline in a time of aging populations, the lack of effort seems even more mystifying.

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  • @Svigor

    He’s not a race-realist, of course, but I don’t take this as him lying but rather being delusional. Nobody – and I mean nobody – likes to be told they belong to a stupid group. Don’t care how smart a guy is, it doesn’t matter.
     
    That's a stupid way to frame it.

    Blacks are smarter than Australian Abos, the same way Yellows are smarter than Whites (and Jews are smarter than Yellows)...yet Whites are far and away the vocal race-realist majority.

    This thread went a lot quicker for my having skipped all of Kato's comments.

    Are you sure Jews are smarter than Yellows? When it comes to STEM, the stereotypes about Asians really do have some evidence to support them.

    You don’t even have to allow for environment: I suspect that Jewish Mothers and Asian Tiger Moms have comparable levels of pushing their kids.

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  • @megabar
    I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here. If I take it at face value, I can give you one answer.

    If you believe in HBD, and you like the type of society that whites have typically built, then you fear that our western societies are irrevocably being altered for the worse. This change is not reversible in any realistic and ethical solution that I've heard. Further, because it is happening to practically every Western society, there isn't an obvious backup plan for whites who want to live in a typical white society.

    You can argue that this isn't really a race thing, and that it's really a matter of the types of trait distributions that a population has. I believe this, but it is difficult for that to matter when society is unwilling to discuss things with any degree of honesty. Race is, IMO, the battlefield that this war is being fought, and so it is naturally a topic of interest.

    I'll flip it around and ask you why, as an East Asian living in the US (is that correct?), you don't find this to be a topic of interest. What do you think the end game is for Western nations, such as the US, in which whites will be the minority in a fairly short period of time? Where do you see yourself, or your descendants, living in the moderate future?

    I recall reading postings of a progressive race realist, who I believe is Asian. He says that while it's obvious that the races differ in traits, that doesn't invalidate the inherent positive results of progressive societies -- that it is still correct to welcome immigrants, and provide social benefits to them. In my opinion, he is simply failing to understand that a society with 70% productive people looks fundamentally different from a society with 30% productive people. The latter can not be made a harmonious society via the sheer magic of policy. Progressivism's benefits, such as they are, are only possible when the population is productive enough to support them (barring the unlikely event that full automation happens quickly, and productivity becomes independent of the population).

    “If you believe in HBD, and you like the type of society that whites have typically built…”

    No, it’s people who have built society. More specifically in the case of the United States, it was different ethnic groups, in particular those from Europe. Listen, if you want whites to take credit for everything grand in the world, then you must be willing to accept that whites have also caused a tremendous amount of disruption and destruction.

    “This change is not reversible in any realistic and ethical solution that I’ve heard. Further, because it is happening to practically every Western society, there isn’t an obvious backup plan for whites who want to live in a typical white society.”

    It’s not a “typical white society”, it’s just a society.

    Now, I am asking for a friend–Is it OK for white people to exercise their freedom of association to make their own decisions about race and culture without being labeled a “cuck” or “race traitor”?

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    • Replies: @Steve Gittelson

    Is it OK for white people to exercise their freedom of association to make their own decisions about race and culture without being labeled a “cuck” or “race traitor”?
     
    Why would one ask such a question in the first place? Any decision I make on those topics is my goddamn business. The correct (Always!) response to any accusation of "race traitor" is "Go fuck yourself." The correct (Always!) response to any accusation of "cuckiness" is "Go fuck yourself, you ignorant asshole."
    , @megabar
    > No, it’s people who have built society

    Sure. In these discussions, it gets wordy to properly qualify every single sentence, so shortcuts are often used. I have great respect for many non-white accomplishments, and for many non-white people.

    > ...then you must be willing to accept that whites have also caused a tremendous amount of disruption and destruction.

    Obviously. White fetishists are blinded, just as are blank-slatists.

    > It’s not a “typical white society”, it’s just a society.

    I'm not sure about that. I believe that culture and genetics are interrelated. People tend to build certain types of societies that match their makeup, and those societies can exert pressure on the types of people who will have kids. Is it a coincidence that most European countries look pretty similar, and that few other countries look like them?

    > Is it OK for white people to exercise their freedom of association to make their own decisions about race and culture without being labeled a “cuck” or “race traitor”?

    I think you have a preconceived perception of how I think. Of course, you can form your own opinions. I don't believe I've painted progressives' motives or abilities in any particular light. I do, however, think that progressivism, as a set of policies, is destructive to modern society.

    Do you believe that people are blank slates, or that the genetics of a person can influence their behavior significantly (e.g. IQ, propensity towards crime, etc)?
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • I liked this bit from Glenn Loury’s article about Amy Wax:

    I will not state here whether I agree or disagree with Amy Wax’s controversial opinions about affirmative action, about bourgeois culture, or about what are the appropriate remedies for past racial wrongs. I won’t say, because it’s completely irrelevant to the points I’m making here; and, because to state that “I certainly don’t agree with Wax on A, B, or C, but … ” would be to concede far too much to the thought police. It would be a transparent attempt to gain credibility with them before criticizing their reactions to Wax, and I refuse to acknowledge their authority over me in that way.

    The whole thing is definitely worth a read.

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    • Replies: @ogunsiron

    I liked this bit from Glenn Loury’s article about Amy Wax:

    I will not state here whether I agree or disagree with Amy Wax’s controversial opinions about affirmative action, about bourgeois culture, or about what are the appropriate remedies for past racial wrongs. I won’t say, because it’s completely irrelevant to the points I’m making here; and, because to state that “I certainly don’t agree with Wax on A, B, or C, but … ” would be to concede far too much to the thought police
     
    Glenn Loury has always impressed me. Even though he's a liberal, he's a *genuine* public intellectual and he's genuinely smart. I believe that he got his PhD in mathematical economics. I'm not saying that he's a world class intellect. Just saying that he seems to be the kind of person who does belong at the table of smart people discussing public policy. He's much smarter than McWhorter. He has internalized the "classical liberal" ideals and he defends them as his own ideas. The idea of free speech is something he seems to deeply and genuinely believe in.
    It's not "external" to him. He just never comes across as disingenuous or fake. I like him.
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  • @Svigor

    He’s not a race-realist, of course, but I don’t take this as him lying but rather being delusional. Nobody – and I mean nobody – likes to be told they belong to a stupid group. Don’t care how smart a guy is, it doesn’t matter.
     
    That's a stupid way to frame it.

    Blacks are smarter than Australian Abos, the same way Yellows are smarter than Whites (and Jews are smarter than Yellows)...yet Whites are far and away the vocal race-realist majority.

    This thread went a lot quicker for my having skipped all of Kato's comments.

    Eh… I don’t think of whites as being stupid. Not as a group. They have peerless accomplishments, which neither Jews or Asians can claim. I don’t care about some world-hierarchy of average IQ. Jews being smart doesn’t make whites stupid. Asians being smart doesn’t make whites stupid.

    To call whites stupid is frankly stupid. Was Newton or Mozart stupid?

    Besides, looking to statistical averages tells you nothing about tribalism. Sowell is black, which means his family – the people he shares his genes with – is black. My theory explains his behavior – it is predictive. You have no theory about his behavior and no prediction for others.

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  • @Yan Shen
    I lived in the heart of west Philadelphia for a number of years and I turned out fine.

    There’s West Phila. and there’s West Phila. Near University City or closer to Upper Darby? Besides which, many of those neighborhoods have changed. Kensington used to be a nice blue collar area with little shops under the El; now it’s boarded up and burned out like the South Bronx.

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  • And really in case anyone thinks I’m exaggerating about the alt-right’s obsession with blacks, lo and behold this gem was published on Amren today.

    https://www.amren.com/commentary/2018/04/blacks-i-have-known-and-liked-crime-intelligence/

    Sure, I got along with all three. But none did anything to make me think their race’s average intelligence was on par with that of whites, or that the criminal impulses of blacks are overstated. My experiences with D-Star, K-Lo, and Big Mike in no way make me think the United States (or any other country) should increase its black population through immigration. Nor do these experiences make me think integration is a moral good, or that “we can all just get along.”

    Race is real, and so are averages. No number of pleasant experiences can change that.

    Since Mr. Derbyshire is all about educating the entire world about blacks and race realism, surely he’ll point this Hubert Collins fellow to one of Chanda Chisala’s highly interesting articles here on Unz.

    http://www.unz.com/article/the-iq-gap-is-no-longer-a-black-and-white-issue/

    African immigrants, as opposed to African Americans, generally tend to be significantly more well behaved and productive relative to their black American counterparts and as Chanda has shown some ethnic subgroups such as the Igbo or the Yoruba generally speaking perform better on average than many of the white European populations they find themselves in!

    I’ve half a mind to find this Hubert Collins fellow myself and talk some sense into him…

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  • @Rosamond Vincy

    Well I can’t for the life of me understand why blacks are such a fascinating topic to so many on the alt-right like Jared Taylor or John Derbyshire
     
    Don't know about Taylor, but Derbyshire lives in New York. It's a relevant topic for him.

    I lived in the heart of west Philadelphia for a number of years and I turned out fine.

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    • Replies: @Rosamond Vincy
    There's West Phila. and there's West Phila. Near University City or closer to Upper Darby? Besides which, many of those neighborhoods have changed. Kensington used to be a nice blue collar area with little shops under the El; now it's boarded up and burned out like the South Bronx.
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  • @Yan Shen
    Well I can't for the life of me understand why blacks are such a fascinating topic to so many on the alt-right like Jared Taylor or John Derbyshire. This must be a non-East Asian thing, obsessing tirelessly over race. Most Chinese people I know don't think about blacks that much for the most part to be honest.

    But thank goodness we have men like John Derbyshire working tirelessly to warn the entire world about The Most Important Fact Ever...

    Well I can’t for the life of me understand why blacks are such a fascinating topic to so many on the alt-right like Jared Taylor or John Derbyshire

    Don’t know about Taylor, but Derbyshire lives in New York. It’s a relevant topic for him.

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    I lived in the heart of west Philadelphia for a number of years and I turned out fine.
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  • @Yan Shen
    Are you married to anyone or are all you alone by yourself with your cats and your extensively compiled dossiers of who other people are married to?

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    • Replies: @attilathehen
    You are a cowardly, bitter, evil woman. You ally yourself with non-whites, non-Christians. Of course, being RCC is the problem. The good news is that China has broken the Chinese RCC ties with the Vatican. There is a schism. Cuck pope Frannie is ok with this. I have to give the Chinese credit for this. Eastern Europe is now separating from the West so many of the RCCers in Eastern Europe will convert to the Orthodox Church. The RCC is now a homosexual, Freemasonic, multi-culti grand lodge. The RCC will be pretty much gone in the USA by 2025. And yet, you cannot bring yourself to defend the West against blacks/Asians/Muslims by trying to the get the RCC to defend the West and its European populations. Unbelievable!!!
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  • @RadicalCenter
    Are African-"Americans" not, on average, markedly less articulate than the average person of other races in the USA? Not asking why that is, just WHETHER it is so.

    Are African-”Americans” not, on average, markedly less articulate than the average person of other races in the USA? Not asking why that is, just WHETHER it is so.

    Oh they are, for sure – and yes, I suspect that at least part of the deficit is ultimately genetic in origin. But it’s still cringy as hell to hear white people complimenting a black Ivy League professor on how smart he is – not the end of the world, not a microaggression that’s taking years off the man’s life, but definitely cringy. (I’m white, FYI.)

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  • @Yan Shen
    I absolutely agree with you that one of the biggest concerns for this country a few decades down the line will be how America operates once blacks and Hispanics become the combined majority in this country. What kind of cultural ethos will America embody then? I'm extremely nervous about this as well.

    The problem is that this possibly looming disaster isn't exactly helped by all of the crazy shit that's going on in this country today, as evidenced by the rampant hordes of Social Justice Jihadis and various assorted right wing fanatics as well like the Richard Spencers and David Dukes of the world.

    http://www.unz.com/article/americas-cultural-revolution-the-obsession-with-self-esteem/

    Please give the above article a read. The author calls out right-wing whites for basically embodying the same self-destructive attitudes that the politically-correct left does. There's a clear cultural deficit in contemporary American society that transcends political and ideological boundaries.

    I for one don't want to live in a country where some bespectacled Korean guy is the only sane person in the entire building and everyone else is having talks with their children about how their fellow Americans of some other race are the most dangerous threat to their existence and well-being. That sounds like a pretty shitty low-trust society to live in.

    You and I think alike in many ways, but I think we have different opinions on what’s most important right now. At the end of the day, the changing demographics of the US is far and away the most important issue.

    Yes, the crazy right is harmful. But only in the sense that they turn off intelligent, reasonable people who would otherwise be willing to listen to race realism. Yes, the current childish and indulgent US culture is harmful, in that Americans are emotionally immature and don’t realize that the world is ultimately a competition — one that the US is going to lose if we maintain the current course.

    But those problems are correctable; possibly quickly (in a generation or so). Changing demographics are not easily correctable.

    The US right how has a very large population that is not well-suited to a high-trust, civil, dignified, productive society. That population is growing. The productive population is shrinking or remaining stagnant. If this continues, the US will be fundamentally changed, regardless of what the politics are at the time. Tax cuts, social programs, affirmative action, a large military — none of that matters when the society itself is unproductive.

    I agree with you that most of the alt-right conducts itself in a manner that is counter-productive. Yes, they are often wrong in the nuances of the argument (e.g. race vs subpopulation). But they are right about one thing — humans are not blank slates. A society is, to a large extent, the sum of the character of the people.

    I do agree that hurling insults at minorities and progressives is not helpful. Personally, I like to engage in discussions about how to structure society in the modern world in a way that guarantees a productive society, but in an ethical way. But if I’m being honest, it’s a little depressing to do so, because I don’t see any realistic chance that any meaningful changes will be made in the US. I think we’ll be prosperous enough in the moderate future that we’ll be too complacent to make any such changes, all the while reducing our chances of ever actually digging ourselves out.

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  • @Yan Shen
    I don't doubt that blacks are an extremely difficult sub-population to integrate into any functioning society. I've been a proponent of HBD for most of my life. I don't expect blacks to start dominating USAMO or IMO any time soon.

    But my sense from having read some of the works of people like Thomas Sowell is that black Americans have declined by a variety of measures socially since the 1960s and the black family really has disintegrated since then. But really, modern day American cultural mores quite frankly suck in general, and I would extend that to be true of Hispanic and white Americans as well.

    To the extent that America can make the best out of a bad situation of having to integrate a black population of 40 million or so, I suspect the kind of Confucian paternalism as embodied by the Chinese guy in the YouTube video is probably the best possible approach. Quite frankly, left-wing and right-wing whites alike are all just insane when it comes to the matter of race in this country.

    Not that I would wish this burden upon any country, but sometimes I wonder if hypothetically an East Asian country had to integrate a 13% population of blacks how differently that might turn out than it has in the modern day US... Imagine in some parallel universe that this kind of A/B test could actually be run on a civilizational scale.

    As a race realist, obviously I'm dubious about whether or not various types of achievement gaps can ever be closed, but I do think that at least having a minimally functioning black population in this country might be possible given the right kind of cultural mores and discipline. Lee Kuan Yew was a staunch IQ realist right, but IIRC wasn't he also a huge believer in squeezing out every last bit of capability out of people through discipline?

    White nationalists mostly seem to get a huge kick out of endlessly mocking blacks, which quite frankly doesn't seem to me to be helpful in much of anything. Compare John Derbyshire's famous version of The Talk. Look at the YouTube video again of the Chinese guy lecturing to the African guy. Heck, even read this article here. I think you'll start to get a good sense of how different Eastern and non-Eastern cultural mores are today.

    http://www.unz.com/article/americas-cultural-revolution-the-obsession-with-self-esteem/

    Yeah, that meanie Derb. Chinese people who never live or work among large concentrations of Africans are so much better at holding out absurdly unrealistic hope for Africans to fundamentally change for the better.

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  • @Yan Shen
    Here's a comment of mine from another thread where some writer accused Chinese people of being racist towards blacks.

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/will-kobe-bryant-save-china-from-racism/#comment-1983641

    You're correct many Chinese don't hold blacks in high regard. But they mostly consider blacks to be lazy and unmotivated, in the context that if blacks adopted the right attitudes and values they would be able to succeed.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtsa0MT2H4I

    Here's a somewhat famous YouTube clip that I think is representative of a lot of what gets misconstrued as Asian racism against blacks. In fact, a lot of white nationalist types eagerly jumped on this clip as an example of a Chinese guy telling a black guy that blacks weren't capable of anything, which obviously from the video is a highly flawed interpretation.

    While European colonialists mostly brutalized Africans and denounced their supposed inferiority, the Chinese today seem to have much more of a no-nonsense, almost pragmatic and paternalist attitude towards African blacks in their dealings. So yes, if they see that blacks aren't doing the right things in life, they won't hesitate to call a spade a spade. But this is often motivated by a sense of Confucian paternalism and a desire to impart wisdom upon the African population, in the same sense that a Tiger Mother might harshly critique her own children if she feels like they aren't getting themselves up to par.

    http://www.unz.com/article/americas-cultural-revolution-the-obsession-with-self-esteem/

    As far as I can see non-East Asians in American today love obsessing over race, blacks, Hispanics, and whites alike. The only thing I see East Asians obsessing over are Tiger Mother values and whether or not Harvard discriminates against them.

    The Chinese are interested in imparting wisdom to the Africans, sometimes advising them almost as if they were their own children? Please.

    A lot of people here have a dangerously naïve conception of the Chinese. There is little reason to think that the Chinese are going to be any more fair, any less brutal, any less dishonest, any less violent, any less authoritarian / totalitarian than the US government and other scumbag western governments.

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  • @larry lurker
    It was interesting to hear McWhorter talk with Loury about getting back-handed compliments from well-meaning white people about how intelligent he is - where it was just screamingly obvious that there was an unspoken "...for a black guy" in the complimenter's head. And I don't for a minute think he was hallucinating - just recently a Goodwhite I know was talking about how "articulate" and "well-spoken" Cory Booker is. I replied with the obligatory Chris Rock bit about Colin Powell.

    Are African-”Americans” not, on average, markedly less articulate than the average person of other races in the USA? Not asking why that is, just WHETHER it is so.

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    • Replies: @larry lurker

    Are African-”Americans” not, on average, markedly less articulate than the average person of other races in the USA? Not asking why that is, just WHETHER it is so.
     
    Oh they are, for sure - and yes, I suspect that at least part of the deficit is ultimately genetic in origin. But it's still cringy as hell to hear white people complimenting a black Ivy League professor on how smart he is - not the end of the world, not a microaggression that's taking years off the man's life, but definitely cringy. (I'm white, FYI.)
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  • @redmudhooch
    pre-molestation Bill Cosby?

    Cosby is being smeared by the Zios. They're mad cause he said some things not approved by them, they also don't like that he has a lot of money and influence, same thing they did to Michael Jackson when he spoke out against them, calling them leeches, they always use sexual blackmail to smear people, Trump and Clinton victims too, I agree with Cosby, there are lots of good black folks out there, when they're raised right, I know plenty of them here in Ga, most were raised in good Christian homes, heres some of what Cosby said they din't like:

    “I’m a Christian. But Muslims are misunderstood. Intentionally misunderstood. We should all be more like them. They make sense, especially with their children. There is no other group like the Black Muslims, who put so much effort into teaching children the right things, they don’t smoke, they don’t drink or overindulge in alcohol, they protect their women, they command respect. And what do these other people do? ”

    “They complain about them, they criticize them. We’d be a better world if we emulated them. We don’t have to become black Muslims, but we can embrace the things that work.”


    Farrakhan makes many good points too. Maybe he is right?

    https://nodisinfo.com/the-zionist-plot-against-bill-cosby-revealed/

    All of those commendable values and lessons that Cosby oddly associates peculiarly with “black Muslims”, were taught to me, and tens of millions of other Americans, by our parents (non-black non-Muslims).

    Most of those parents were, and are, Christians. This pudding-pop genius seemingly didn’t realize that Christian people of all backgrounds have been teaching those values and lessons in America and elsewhere long before there were any “black Muslims.”

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  • @Yan Shen
    Fair enough.

    By the way, since Mr. Derbyshire's always going on endlessly about blacks and race realism and something about feral blacks holding a knife to his children's throat, I definitely recommend people reading one of Chanda Chisala's highly interesting articles here on Unz if they haven't already done so.

    http://www.unz.com/article/the-iq-gap-is-no-longer-a-black-and-white-issue/

    Now I tend to think that Chanda vastly oversells his case and I'm skeptical that anomalous results such as competitive Scrabble overturn decades of psychometric research. On the other hand, it's certainly plausible that sub-Saharan Africa is essentially a lesser version of India, highly multi-racial and with cognitively elite sub-groups such as the Igbo or the Yoruba. So perhaps operating under a mental model where sub-Saharan Africa is racially monolithic with mean IQ of 70 is off the mark.

    Now admittedly I don't interact with many blacks whether American or immigrants from Africa, but in my limited experience I've found the latter group in the US to be much better behaved and productive relative to the former, no doubt in part the result of self-selected immigration among possibly already elite black sub-groups.

    The simple fact of the matter is that 40 million blacks are here today in this country and quite frankly most of them are more American than most whites around the globe ever will be. We need to accept that fact and move on towards coming up with productive solutions to our societal woes.

    Yes, there are subpopulations within the races, and those subpopulations have differences, just as there are differences between races.

    And indeed, this is why I try to occasionally point out that I believe that Western decline is rooted in blank-slatism. Because of this, we do not judge people, but rather the culture. If a person is poor, it is because society has failed them, and not because the person has deficits or has made bad decisions.

    I believe that some degree of this is quite positive. People should not be tested at the age of 6 and told that they are worthless if they score poorly. People who aren’t particularly smart or conformant to the larger society shouldn’t be ridiculed, or relegated to poverty. But that positive has been taken to a ridiculous degree, and in effect there are no personal characteristics that are deemed to be “bad”, save believing that traditional culture is an effective way to structure a society. A happy middle ground should be found.

    The most obvious result, and the most immediately damaging, is that belief that mass immigration of any sort is beneficial to the US, and that failings of those immigrants only means that society must try harder to integrate them. Such a belief is actually pretty logical if you are a blank-slatist, which is why it’s so damaging.

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  • Media claim white men are the problem; the facts say otherwise. The Second Amendment is under siege. In the New York Times, retired Supreme Court justice John Paul Stevens urged its repeal. A national survey conducted by The Economist and YouGov found 21 percent of Americans support repealing the Second Amendment. Not surprisingly, support varies...
  • I agree that main stream media’s portrayal of white conservative gun-owners as main perpetrators of gun related crimes is totally unjustified. However, in case of assault rifles and semi-automatic weapons, one could make a case that these weapons make mass murderers much more effective killers. So, if they were to use a handgun or a knife, they would have perhaps killed 5 or 10. But with assault rifles and semi-automatic weapons these same crooked people could murder 50+ people. However, with many guns already being out on the loose, and our government’s inability to enforce even enforceable laws such as border control and drug problems, I agree with the points some of the commentators have made that government may not be able to effective enforce gun control laws even if such laws were to be enacted by the Congress.

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  • In my infamous column “The Talk, Nonblack Version” at TakiMag, six years ago this month, I introduced the ad hoc abbreviation IWSB for “Intelligent and Well-Socialized Blacks.” I then advised the nonblack youth of America as follows: I can’t really claim to have been very energetic about taking my own advice here, but there is...
  • @Yan Shen
    I don't doubt that blacks are an extremely difficult sub-population to integrate into any functioning society. I've been a proponent of HBD for most of my life. I don't expect blacks to start dominating USAMO or IMO any time soon.

    But my sense from having read some of the works of people like Thomas Sowell is that black Americans have declined by a variety of measures socially since the 1960s and the black family really has disintegrated since then. But really, modern day American cultural mores quite frankly suck in general, and I would extend that to be true of Hispanic and white Americans as well.

    To the extent that America can make the best out of a bad situation of having to integrate a black population of 40 million or so, I suspect the kind of Confucian paternalism as embodied by the Chinese guy in the YouTube video is probably the best possible approach. Quite frankly, left-wing and right-wing whites alike are all just insane when it comes to the matter of race in this country.

    Not that I would wish this burden upon any country, but sometimes I wonder if hypothetically an East Asian country had to integrate a 13% population of blacks how differently that might turn out than it has in the modern day US... Imagine in some parallel universe that this kind of A/B test could actually be run on a civilizational scale.

    As a race realist, obviously I'm dubious about whether or not various types of achievement gaps can ever be closed, but I do think that at least having a minimally functioning black population in this country might be possible given the right kind of cultural mores and discipline. Lee Kuan Yew was a staunch IQ realist right, but IIRC wasn't he also a huge believer in squeezing out every last bit of capability out of people through discipline?

    White nationalists mostly seem to get a huge kick out of endlessly mocking blacks, which quite frankly doesn't seem to me to be helpful in much of anything. Compare John Derbyshire's famous version of The Talk. Look at the YouTube video again of the Chinese guy lecturing to the African guy. Heck, even read this article here. I think you'll start to get a good sense of how different Eastern and non-Eastern cultural mores are today.

    http://www.unz.com/article/americas-cultural-revolution-the-obsession-with-self-esteem/

    Not that I would wish this burden upon any country, but sometimes I wonder if hypothetically an East Asian country had to integrate a 13% population of blacks how differently that might turn out than it has in the modern day US

    Something like this has happened with China before and its not all that pretty; you can see a version of this in the Ming invasion of Vietnam. Its not so much physical genocide as cultural genocide: the Chinese heavily destroy other artifacts of culture, promote only their culture and demand assimilation from children(often giving up adults as a lost cause).

    The Chinese are indeed relatively less bloodthirsty to marginal, defeated populations. But its not hard to see that historically, they are not hesitant to do things that equate to killing the very soul of a population.

    The Chinese do “inclusion” to some extent but not really “multiculturalism” except in an extremely watered down state.

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  • @Anonymous
    We will get race realist blacks a generation after CRISPR/IVF-preselected babies have become the norm among Black Americans. It’ll appear as part of an argument for why we need to make such technology freely available to all four billion of their co-ethnics in Africa.

    “It’ll appear as part of an argument for why we need to make such technology freely available to all four billion of their co-ethnics in Africa.” the antiracist dream is of course to ban it for Koreans at the same time.

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  • @Yan Shen
    Well considering that non-Hispanic whites are still something like 61-62% of the general population, I'm not sure where you're getting that 40% from.

    I also have no idea where you're getting this 10 million per year crossing the border since 1980 from Mexico. By my math, that comes out to over 280 million over the past 28 years. Mexico's current population is somewhere around 128 million and I'd guess that substantially lower than 280 million Mexicans have ever even been alive between 1980-2018, given that Mexican death rates have averaged somewhere around 5 per 1000 population over the past 15 plus years or so. Plus, wouldn't we kinda know if the actual number of illegals in this country was almost 300 million or so, a number fairly close to the officially reported legal population of 325 million?

    https://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?c=mx&v=26

    Blogger Steve Sailer made the observation that America's modern day Social Justice Jihadis, unlike the Chinese Cultural Revolutionaries of yore, generally speaking tended to be innumerate. I think in the spirit of my most recent article pointing out that right-wing whites are just as bad as the politically-correct left in many respects, we should also point out that many white nationalist types have no real sense for numbers either...

    we should also point out that many white nationalist types have no real sense for numbers either…

    Golly, we sure could, couldn’t we? And we might also point out that effulgently self-admiring Orientals might be peddling all kindsa bullshit, nie?

    Is that sufficiently invidious for ya, D00D? Golly jeepers, Andy, my naivete must be like, asymptotic, D00D.

    FYI, or not, as the case may be, do you actually believe the stats the gubmint provides with respect to who’s illegal, who’s here, and who’s not?

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  • @larry lurker

    You can see this in Jayman’s absurd debates with Dennis Mangan on Twitter in which Jayman asserts that obesity is genetic and it’s pointless to even bother with diet or exercise.
     
    I thought his position was more along the lines of: in a relatively free society with practically limitless food resources, some fraction of the population will reliably gorge themselves to death because they're genetically predisposed to do so, and no amount of diet and exercise intervention - short of completely stripping these people of their freedom to eat/do what they want - is going to have much of an impact. He didn't quite put it that way but that was the only reading that made sense to me.

    A good point well said.

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  • @Steve Gittelson

    I absolutely agree with you that one of the biggest concerns for this country a few decades down the line will be how America operates once blacks and Hispanics become the combined majority in this country.
     
    Blacks and generic mexicans, combined, are already a majority. 40% + 13% = 53%. Get real, man, there are 80-100 million generic Mexicans, at least. 10 million per year crossing the border since 1980. It adds up. The government stats are pure lies, penciled-in by whatever current administration. All major cities in the US are heavily infested with illegals, mostly messicans, from the inner city out to the near 'burbs. For any intent or purpose, the invasion has succeeded and it's all over but for the granting of citizenship and voting rights. Ten years, and it will all be legal on paper, too. America is over.

    Messicans and blacks don't mix. Not much, anyway. Mexicans are sufficiently sang-froid to simply put a Negro-extermination program into action. I find it a bit amusing that the alt-right's night horrors of "feral blacks" are to be replaced by the reality of patiently-feral messicans.

    Well considering that non-Hispanic whites are still something like 61-62% of the general population, I’m not sure where you’re getting that 40% from.

    I also have no idea where you’re getting this 10 million per year crossing the border since 1980 from Mexico. By my math, that comes out to over 280 million over the past 28 years. Mexico’s current population is somewhere around 128 million and I’d guess that substantially lower than 280 million Mexicans have ever even been alive between 1980-2018, given that Mexican death rates have averaged somewhere around 5 per 1000 population over the past 15 plus years or so. Plus, wouldn’t we kinda know if the actual number of illegals in this country was almost 300 million or so, a number fairly close to the officially reported legal population of 325 million?

    https://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?c=mx&v=26

    Blogger Steve Sailer made the observation that America’s modern day Social Justice Jihadis, unlike the Chinese Cultural Revolutionaries of yore, generally speaking tended to be innumerate. I think in the spirit of my most recent article pointing out that right-wing whites are just as bad as the politically-correct left in many respects, we should also point out that many white nationalist types have no real sense for numbers either…

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    • Replies: @Steve Gittelson

    we should also point out that many white nationalist types have no real sense for numbers either…
     
    Golly, we sure could, couldn't we? And we might also point out that effulgently self-admiring Orientals might be peddling all kindsa bullshit, nie?

    Is that sufficiently invidious for ya, D00D? Golly jeepers, Andy, my naivete must be like, asymptotic, D00D.

    FYI, or not, as the case may be, do you actually believe the stats the gubmint provides with respect to who's illegal, who's here, and who's not?
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  • @Yan Shen
    I absolutely agree with you that one of the biggest concerns for this country a few decades down the line will be how America operates once blacks and Hispanics become the combined majority in this country. What kind of cultural ethos will America embody then? I'm extremely nervous about this as well.

    The problem is that this possibly looming disaster isn't exactly helped by all of the crazy shit that's going on in this country today, as evidenced by the rampant hordes of Social Justice Jihadis and various assorted right wing fanatics as well like the Richard Spencers and David Dukes of the world.

    http://www.unz.com/article/americas-cultural-revolution-the-obsession-with-self-esteem/

    Please give the above article a read. The author calls out right-wing whites for basically embodying the same self-destructive attitudes that the politically-correct left does. There's a clear cultural deficit in contemporary American society that transcends political and ideological boundaries.

    I for one don't want to live in a country where some bespectacled Korean guy is the only sane person in the entire building and everyone else is having talks with their children about how their fellow Americans of some other race are the most dangerous threat to their existence and well-being. That sounds like a pretty shitty low-trust society to live in.

    I absolutely agree with you that one of the biggest concerns for this country a few decades down the line will be how America operates once blacks and Hispanics become the combined majority in this country.

    Blacks and generic mexicans, combined, are already a majority. 40% + 13% = 53%. Get real, man, there are 80-100 million generic Mexicans, at least. 10 million per year crossing the border since 1980. It adds up. The government stats are pure lies, penciled-in by whatever current administration. All major cities in the US are heavily infested with illegals, mostly messicans, from the inner city out to the near ‘burbs. For any intent or purpose, the invasion has succeeded and it’s all over but for the granting of citizenship and voting rights. Ten years, and it will all be legal on paper, too. America is over.

    Messicans and blacks don’t mix. Not much, anyway. Mexicans are sufficiently sang-froid to simply put a Negro-extermination program into action. I find it a bit amusing that the alt-right’s night horrors of “feral blacks” are to be replaced by the reality of patiently-feral messicans.

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    • Replies: @Yan Shen
    Well considering that non-Hispanic whites are still something like 61-62% of the general population, I'm not sure where you're getting that 40% from.

    I also have no idea where you're getting this 10 million per year crossing the border since 1980 from Mexico. By my math, that comes out to over 280 million over the past 28 years. Mexico's current population is somewhere around 128 million and I'd guess that substantially lower than 280 million Mexicans have ever even been alive between 1980-2018, given that Mexican death rates have averaged somewhere around 5 per 1000 population over the past 15 plus years or so. Plus, wouldn't we kinda know if the actual number of illegals in this country was almost 300 million or so, a number fairly close to the officially reported legal population of 325 million?

    https://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?c=mx&v=26

    Blogger Steve Sailer made the observation that America's modern day Social Justice Jihadis, unlike the Chinese Cultural Revolutionaries of yore, generally speaking tended to be innumerate. I think in the spirit of my most recent article pointing out that right-wing whites are just as bad as the politically-correct left in many respects, we should also point out that many white nationalist types have no real sense for numbers either...

    , @attilathehen
    Are you Jewish?
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  • Most type (races, ethnicities, what-have-you) ARE tribal, Svigor. I don’t see anything wrong with that except if they are mixed in too many in a society that really did have strong belief in rule-of-law. Rule-of-law, Constitutionalism, and all the concepts passed down from the Founders and before from the Mother country, England, cannot co-exist with tribalism.

    If you notice, it’s mostly only white people who would look at who is actually in the right (say in a disagreement on the city bus) and take action or speak up accordingly. You may get some of that from the black guys too initially, but when things get really nasty, they will revert immediately to supporting their people against the rest, right or wrong, law-wise.

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  • Blacks always stick up for each other, whether right or wrong. It’s called tribalism. If it were only one guy, say your age, I”d have him in a choke hold after a while even after taking some hits.

    Or, if I shot a bunch of them, then I’d never hear the end of it. Nah, I’ll just drive.

    It’s weird because Blacks aren’t collectivist at all. If I had to guess, I’d say that the continental races follow the usual Rushton pattern – in this case, Collectivism|Yellows-Whites-Blacks|Individualism. But this is complicated by circumstance. E.g., American Blacks are the conspicuous minority, and far less competent than the White majority. They’re strongly enabled by Whites, too. But Blacks are very individualistic, inside that color line (and, to a lesser extent, outside it, in some ways).

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    • Replies: @ogunsiron
    I think that with most blacks you have "tribalism + low trust". Tribalism kicks in when it comes to reflexively opposing Whites, but interactions within the group itself can be very low trust.
    The extreme low trust also manifests itself in the way it's very common in traditional african cultures to be extremely suspicious of close family members, because some of them might be "witches".
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  • @Yan Shen
    Here's a comment of mine from another thread where some writer accused Chinese people of being racist towards blacks.

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/will-kobe-bryant-save-china-from-racism/#comment-1983641

    You're correct many Chinese don't hold blacks in high regard. But they mostly consider blacks to be lazy and unmotivated, in the context that if blacks adopted the right attitudes and values they would be able to succeed.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtsa0MT2H4I

    Here's a somewhat famous YouTube clip that I think is representative of a lot of what gets misconstrued as Asian racism against blacks. In fact, a lot of white nationalist types eagerly jumped on this clip as an example of a Chinese guy telling a black guy that blacks weren't capable of anything, which obviously from the video is a highly flawed interpretation.

    While European colonialists mostly brutalized Africans and denounced their supposed inferiority, the Chinese today seem to have much more of a no-nonsense, almost pragmatic and paternalist attitude towards African blacks in their dealings. So yes, if they see that blacks aren't doing the right things in life, they won't hesitate to call a spade a spade. But this is often motivated by a sense of Confucian paternalism and a desire to impart wisdom upon the African population, in the same sense that a Tiger Mother might harshly critique her own children if she feels like they aren't getting themselves up to par.

    http://www.unz.com/article/americas-cultural-revolution-the-obsession-with-self-esteem/

    As far as I can see non-East Asians in American today love obsessing over race, blacks, Hispanics, and whites alike. The only thing I see East Asians obsessing over are Tiger Mother values and whether or not Harvard discriminates against them.

    As far as I can see non-East Asians in American [sic] today…

    Man you really narrowed that down, Mr. Yan. Let me see, that includes a lot of Oriental people from the SE part of that continent, say IndoChina, as we used to call it (unless you are specifically using cardinal headings – I’m assuming your “East” is one of 8 compass points), and the people from way up in Mongolia. Dot-Indians would be included, along with folks from all the rest of the next two continents westbound.

    Eurpoeans, Other Orientals, Africans, Chicanos, regular Americans, Canadian imports, all of them LOVE LOVE LOVE obsessing over race, huh? Why are you so obsessed with all the rest of us, anyway, Yan Shen?

    Ooops, dammit, I got drawn into your little world of stupidity. I had a Chinese New Year’s resolution about this sort of thing … looks like I dropped it like a year-old moon cake pie.

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  • @Truth
    Why, are you yellow, Sinestro?

    Blacks always stick up for each other, whether right or wrong. It’s called tribalism. If it were only one guy, say your age, I”d have him in a choke hold after a while even after taking some hits.

    Or, if I shot a bunch of them, then I’d never hear the end of it. Nah, I’ll just drive.

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  • He’s not a race-realist, of course, but I don’t take this as him lying but rather being delusional. Nobody – and I mean nobody – likes to be told they belong to a stupid group. Don’t care how smart a guy is, it doesn’t matter.

    That’s a stupid way to frame it.

    Blacks are smarter than Australian Abos, the same way Yellows are smarter than Whites (and Jews are smarter than Yellows)…yet Whites are far and away the vocal race-realist majority.

    This thread went a lot quicker for my having skipped all of Kato’s comments.

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    • Replies: @songbird
    Eh... I don't think of whites as being stupid. Not as a group. They have peerless accomplishments, which neither Jews or Asians can claim. I don't care about some world-hierarchy of average IQ. Jews being smart doesn't make whites stupid. Asians being smart doesn't make whites stupid.

    To call whites stupid is frankly stupid. Was Newton or Mozart stupid?

    Besides, looking to statistical averages tells you nothing about tribalism. Sowell is black, which means his family - the people he shares his genes with - is black. My theory explains his behavior - it is predictive. You have no theory about his behavior and no prediction for others.
    , @Rosamond Vincy
    Are you sure Jews are smarter than Yellows? When it comes to STEM, the stereotypes about Asians really do have some evidence to support them.

    You don't even have to allow for environment: I suspect that Jewish Mothers and Asian Tiger Moms have comparable levels of pushing their kids.

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  • Hey, it’s the Wall Street Journal Riley works for. Like I said, everyone’s entitled to an opinion; and Riley’s book is not explicitly anti-white like some others in the genre e.g. His Panic: Why Americans Fear Hispanics in the U.S. by Geraldo Rivera.

    Sounds more like a bug than a feature; the more we can join open borders at the hip to anti-white hate, the better.

    I am not at disturbed that most black people are not out to get the guns of whites , not involved in violence or criminality, are out to kill whites en masse on sight.

    I do have issues with anyone who denies the validity and importance of national boundaries as a means of order — and who’s short sightedness of academic privilege misses the reality the most US citizens not people around the world live in their fantasy bookish narratives.

    I care not whether he is white, green, blue or

    black.

    We’ve never heard Cuckservatism in muddled, mangled English before. Please, give us more.

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  • Yan Shen, #16:

    Well I can’t for the life of me understand why blacks are such a fascinating topic to so many on the alt-right like Jared Taylor or John Derbyshire.

    But the incessant “anti-racist” (anti-white), sanctimonious, ethnomasochist Goodwhite/SJW sacralization of blacks and Inquisition of Badwhites you do understand?

    The glaring double-standard on matters of race, in which often virulent real attacks on whites are overlooked and even sanctioned while even the mildest, completely subjective and even imaginary attacks on “persons of color” (as well as members of of one or more of the many other sacralized, designated victim groups) are severely punished.

    It is against this reality that whatever individuals such as Derbyshire and Taylor say on the topic of race must be considered. To ignore it is to strip critical context.

    Most Chinese people I know don’t think about blacks that much for the most part to be honest.

    Regardless of what they think or say about blacks, the overwhelming majority of Chinese people, just like the overwhelming majority of everyone else in the world practices most, if not all of the race-realism-informed rules that John Derbyshire outlines in his referenced The Talk piece from 2012. (This includes, I would add, at least many civilized blacks.) For a parent to not advise his child accordingly is nothing short of negligent.

    Imagine driving at 3:00 AM and having to choose between two areas to stop for gas, refreshment, lodging or assistance. You know nothing about either of the two areas except that one of them is populated predominately by blacks, the other predominately by non-blacks. I think it’s safe to say that any non-black (and plenty of blacks as well) who claims that they would choose the former (i.e., the black area) is either (a) suicidal, (b) mentally incompetent to the point that he should not even be driving in the first place or (c) lying.

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  • @ 16, Yan Shen:

    If anyone’s got an obsession here, I’d say it would have to be /you/, Mr. Yan Shen. Is there a single comment thread you’ve participated in or article you’ve written here at Unz in which you haven’t repeated your over-the-top, worn characterizations of John Derbyshire?

    Whatever else one may think of Mr. Derbyshire and his work, it is difficult to imagine anyone who was at all familiar with it not having to at least acknowledge that it evidences considerable and even exceptional degrees of intelligence, knowledge, wit, independence and courage.

    Just how familiar are /you/ with the work of this man– one whom you have repeatedly summarily dismissed as nothing more than “a white Ta Nehisi Coates”?

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  • @megabar
    We do not disagree regarding the devolution of white culture in the US. I do not, for the life of me, understand why intelligent Americans attack with such hatred the very culture that has created our fair, creative, and productive society, and insist on embracing vulgar and childish replacements.

    Your arguments about eliminating hatred and maximizing the potential of all citizens, regardless of race, is valid. I also don't think it's controversial among reasonable people.

    But you seem to frame the discussion as one in which the dominant ethnic group (Europeans in the US, Chinese in China) maintains control of the culture. Your hypothetical about how China would integrate 13% of its population belies this.

    But that is not what's happening in the US. The majority (whites) are quickly becoming a minority. I believe that among newborns, whites are already in the minority. And therefore, in a free republic like the US, the question will not be how can whites help minorities maximize their potential. It will be how will blacks and Hispanics reshape this country with their political and cultural power once they are the majority. This is a fundamentally and profoundly different question.

    We have clues from other countries: Mexico, South Africa, Brazil, Iran, etc. We also have clues within the US: Detroit, Cleveland, DC, and LA. None of those fill me with hope. I do not want to live in Detroit or LA.

    You comment raises the question: Why do African Americans behave worse in several metrics now than before? One possibility is that previously, the US was much more dominated by traditional conservative European culture. People can and do conform to the dominant culture to a degree. If I moved to Japan, I would doubtlessly act more Japanese, even if I'd never fully fit in, at least partially because I have different traits. As blacks have grown in numbers, political power, and cultural power, they feel less pressure to act white, and more free to form societies more natural for the set of traits that they have. For example, African societies do not place value on fidelity.

    So, you should change your hypothetical from how would China deal with 13% blacks, to how would the Chinese deal with becoming a minority in China, with fair and free elections to all citizens. That is what the US is facing.

    I absolutely agree with you that one of the biggest concerns for this country a few decades down the line will be how America operates once blacks and Hispanics become the combined majority in this country. What kind of cultural ethos will America embody then? I’m extremely nervous about this as well.

    The problem is that this possibly looming disaster isn’t exactly helped by all of the crazy shit that’s going on in this country today, as evidenced by the rampant hordes of Social Justice Jihadis and various assorted right wing fanatics as well like the Richard Spencers and David Dukes of the world.

    http://www.unz.com/article/americas-cultural-revolution-the-obsession-with-self-esteem/

    Please give the above article a read. The author calls out right-wing whites for basically embodying the same self-destructive attitudes that the politically-correct left does. There’s a clear cultural deficit in contemporary American society that transcends political and ideological boundaries.

    I for one don’t want to live in a country where some bespectacled Korean guy is the only sane person in the entire building and everyone else is having talks with their children about how their fellow Americans of some other race are the most dangerous threat to their existence and well-being. That sounds like a pretty shitty low-trust society to live in.

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    • Replies: @Steve Gittelson

    I absolutely agree with you that one of the biggest concerns for this country a few decades down the line will be how America operates once blacks and Hispanics become the combined majority in this country.
     
    Blacks and generic mexicans, combined, are already a majority. 40% + 13% = 53%. Get real, man, there are 80-100 million generic Mexicans, at least. 10 million per year crossing the border since 1980. It adds up. The government stats are pure lies, penciled-in by whatever current administration. All major cities in the US are heavily infested with illegals, mostly messicans, from the inner city out to the near 'burbs. For any intent or purpose, the invasion has succeeded and it's all over but for the granting of citizenship and voting rights. Ten years, and it will all be legal on paper, too. America is over.

    Messicans and blacks don't mix. Not much, anyway. Mexicans are sufficiently sang-froid to simply put a Negro-extermination program into action. I find it a bit amusing that the alt-right's night horrors of "feral blacks" are to be replaced by the reality of patiently-feral messicans.
    , @megabar
    You and I think alike in many ways, but I think we have different opinions on what's most important right now. At the end of the day, the changing demographics of the US is far and away the most important issue.

    Yes, the crazy right is harmful. But only in the sense that they turn off intelligent, reasonable people who would otherwise be willing to listen to race realism. Yes, the current childish and indulgent US culture is harmful, in that Americans are emotionally immature and don't realize that the world is ultimately a competition -- one that the US is going to lose if we maintain the current course.

    But those problems are correctable; possibly quickly (in a generation or so). Changing demographics are not easily correctable.

    The US right how has a very large population that is not well-suited to a high-trust, civil, dignified, productive society. That population is growing. The productive population is shrinking or remaining stagnant. If this continues, the US will be fundamentally changed, regardless of what the politics are at the time. Tax cuts, social programs, affirmative action, a large military -- none of that matters when the society itself is unproductive.

    I agree with you that most of the alt-right conducts itself in a manner that is counter-productive. Yes, they are often wrong in the nuances of the argument (e.g. race vs subpopulation). But they are right about one thing -- humans are not blank slates. A society is, to a large extent, the sum of the character of the people.

    I do agree that hurling insults at minorities and progressives is not helpful. Personally, I like to engage in discussions about how to structure society in the modern world in a way that guarantees a productive society, but in an ethical way. But if I'm being honest, it's a little depressing to do so, because I don't see any realistic chance that any meaningful changes will be made in the US. I think we'll be prosperous enough in the moderate future that we'll be too complacent to make any such changes, all the while reducing our chances of ever actually digging ourselves out.
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  • @songbird
    China, I honestly think would just have had a one-child policy for blacks if they were 13% of the population there and semi-native. They sure as heck would not have gone to a one-child policy for Han and let blacks have two. That, or else they would have deported them, or have been destroyed by them.

    You wouldn't laugh blacks off if you lived in South Africa or Rhodesia. They had the numbers there and no amount of discipline or expectations could prevent them from seizing control. And the same thing will happen anywhere they have the numbers.

    Many blacks have misbehaved in the East. Nobody says anything there, when a large, aggressive black is angry. The Chinese only stand up through their police, when the police are acting in large teams to deport blacks.

    I’m aware that blacks in South Africa and Zimbabwe have been behaving pretty badly towards whites there. On the other hand, we live in America, not South Africa or Zimbabwe, so our problem are African Americans, not sub-Saharan Africans.

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  • @Truth
    Hey, Another Chinsese guy said The Derb was working on his PhD in "Blackpeopleology."

    Haha, well that was obviously a bit of tongue in cheek sarcasm. That being said, I do find Mr. Derbyshire’s fascination with blacks to be in and of itself highly fascinating. Now that David Duke guy always rants and raves about the Jews and wrote some book called Jewish Supremacism, but quite frankly from the videos I’ve seen of him he comes off as being kind of dumb.

    On the other hand, Mr. Derbyshire is no doubt quite a smart individual, as his background and various accomplishments attest to. I think it’s quite possible that after adjusting for IQ, the Derb may be in the 99.99th percentile amongst his cognitive peers when it comes to level of interest in and fascination with blacks. A quick check suggests that 5 out of his last 7 posts, including this one, touch upon the topic of blacks in some way.

    In fact he surely must have already written so much material about blacks over the years that he could probably come out with a book similar to Jewish Supremacism, but perhaps titled “The Black Problem”…

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  • Listen up, IWSBs: There’s an opening here for some brave soul among you to embrace race realism—also known as the bleedin’ obvious.

    Who will be the first IWSB to step up?

    Well since our good friend Mr. Derbyshire seemed genuinely surprised that anyone might have been offended by his version of the talk, allow me to kindly suggest to the Derb that apart from a handful of HBD types like JayMan, he probably shouldn’t get his hopes up too high.

    You might have to settle for one of those black conservative types like McWhorter, Loury, or Sowell as your closest ally among blacks in this country.

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  • South African and Rhodesian whites were beaten by Western whites, with some help of the former beating themselves – blacks didn’t do it simply because they couldn’t.

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  • @megabar
    We do not disagree regarding the devolution of white culture in the US. I do not, for the life of me, understand why intelligent Americans attack with such hatred the very culture that has created our fair, creative, and productive society, and insist on embracing vulgar and childish replacements.

    Your arguments about eliminating hatred and maximizing the potential of all citizens, regardless of race, is valid. I also don't think it's controversial among reasonable people.

    But you seem to frame the discussion as one in which the dominant ethnic group (Europeans in the US, Chinese in China) maintains control of the culture. Your hypothetical about how China would integrate 13% of its population belies this.

    But that is not what's happening in the US. The majority (whites) are quickly becoming a minority. I believe that among newborns, whites are already in the minority. And therefore, in a free republic like the US, the question will not be how can whites help minorities maximize their potential. It will be how will blacks and Hispanics reshape this country with their political and cultural power once they are the majority. This is a fundamentally and profoundly different question.

    We have clues from other countries: Mexico, South Africa, Brazil, Iran, etc. We also have clues within the US: Detroit, Cleveland, DC, and LA. None of those fill me with hope. I do not want to live in Detroit or LA.

    You comment raises the question: Why do African Americans behave worse in several metrics now than before? One possibility is that previously, the US was much more dominated by traditional conservative European culture. People can and do conform to the dominant culture to a degree. If I moved to Japan, I would doubtlessly act more Japanese, even if I'd never fully fit in, at least partially because I have different traits. As blacks have grown in numbers, political power, and cultural power, they feel less pressure to act white, and more free to form societies more natural for the set of traits that they have. For example, African societies do not place value on fidelity.

    So, you should change your hypothetical from how would China deal with 13% blacks, to how would the Chinese deal with becoming a minority in China, with fair and free elections to all citizens. That is what the US is facing.

    Fair enough.

    By the way, since Mr. Derbyshire’s always going on endlessly about blacks and race realism and something about feral blacks holding a knife to his children’s throat, I definitely recommend people reading one of Chanda Chisala’s highly interesting articles here on Unz if they haven’t already done so.

    http://www.unz.com/article/the-iq-gap-is-no-longer-a-black-and-white-issue/

    Now I tend to think that Chanda vastly oversells his case and I’m skeptical that anomalous results such as competitive Scrabble overturn decades of psychometric research. On the other hand, it’s certainly plausible that sub-Saharan Africa is essentially a lesser version of India, highly multi-racial and with cognitively elite sub-groups such as the Igbo or the Yoruba. So perhaps operating under a mental model where sub-Saharan Africa is racially monolithic with mean IQ of 70 is off the mark.

    Now admittedly I don’t interact with many blacks whether American or immigrants from Africa, but in my limited experience I’ve found the latter group in the US to be much better behaved and productive relative to the former, no doubt in part the result of self-selected immigration among possibly already elite black sub-groups.

    The simple fact of the matter is that 40 million blacks are here today in this country and quite frankly most of them are more American than most whites around the globe ever will be. We need to accept that fact and move on towards coming up with productive solutions to our societal woes.

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    • Replies: @megabar
    Yes, there are subpopulations within the races, and those subpopulations have differences, just as there are differences between races.

    And indeed, this is why I try to occasionally point out that I believe that Western decline is rooted in blank-slatism. Because of this, we do not judge people, but rather the culture. If a person is poor, it is because society has failed them, and not because the person has deficits or has made bad decisions.

    I believe that some degree of this is quite positive. People should not be tested at the age of 6 and told that they are worthless if they score poorly. People who aren't particularly smart or conformant to the larger society shouldn't be ridiculed, or relegated to poverty. But that positive has been taken to a ridiculous degree, and in effect there are no personal characteristics that are deemed to be "bad", save believing that traditional culture is an effective way to structure a society. A happy middle ground should be found.

    The most obvious result, and the most immediately damaging, is that belief that mass immigration of any sort is beneficial to the US, and that failings of those immigrants only means that society must try harder to integrate them. Such a belief is actually pretty logical if you are a blank-slatist, which is why it's so damaging.
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  • @Yan Shen
    I don't doubt that blacks are an extremely difficult sub-population to integrate into any functioning society. I've been a proponent of HBD for most of my life. I don't expect blacks to start dominating USAMO or IMO any time soon.

    But my sense from having read some of the works of people like Thomas Sowell is that black Americans have declined by a variety of measures socially since the 1960s and the black family really has disintegrated since then. But really, modern day American cultural mores quite frankly suck in general, and I would extend that to be true of Hispanic and white Americans as well.

    To the extent that America can make the best out of a bad situation of having to integrate a black population of 40 million or so, I suspect the kind of Confucian paternalism as embodied by the Chinese guy in the YouTube video is probably the best possible approach. Quite frankly, left-wing and right-wing whites alike are all just insane when it comes to the matter of race in this country.

    Not that I would wish this burden upon any country, but sometimes I wonder if hypothetically an East Asian country had to integrate a 13% population of blacks how differently that might turn out than it has in the modern day US... Imagine in some parallel universe that this kind of A/B test could actually be run on a civilizational scale.

    As a race realist, obviously I'm dubious about whether or not various types of achievement gaps can ever be closed, but I do think that at least having a minimally functioning black population in this country might be possible given the right kind of cultural mores and discipline. Lee Kuan Yew was a staunch IQ realist right, but IIRC wasn't he also a huge believer in squeezing out every last bit of capability out of people through discipline?

    White nationalists mostly seem to get a huge kick out of endlessly mocking blacks, which quite frankly doesn't seem to me to be helpful in much of anything. Compare John Derbyshire's famous version of The Talk. Look at the YouTube video again of the Chinese guy lecturing to the African guy. Heck, even read this article here. I think you'll start to get a good sense of how different Eastern and non-Eastern cultural mores are today.

    http://www.unz.com/article/americas-cultural-revolution-the-obsession-with-self-esteem/

    China, I honestly think would just have had a one-child policy for blacks if they were 13% of the population there and semi-native. They sure as heck would not have gone to a one-child policy for Han and let blacks have two. That, or else they would have deported them, or have been destroyed by them.

    You wouldn’t laugh blacks off if you lived in South Africa or Rhodesia. They had the numbers there and no amount of discipline or expectations could prevent them from seizing control. And the same thing will happen anywhere they have the numbers.

    Many blacks have misbehaved in the East. Nobody says anything there, when a large, aggressive black is angry. The Chinese only stand up through their police, when the police are acting in large teams to deport blacks.

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    • Replies: @Yan Shen
    I'm aware that blacks in South Africa and Zimbabwe have been behaving pretty badly towards whites there. On the other hand, we live in America, not South Africa or Zimbabwe, so our problem are African Americans, not sub-Saharan Africans.
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  • @megabar
    We do not disagree regarding the devolution of white culture in the US. I do not, for the life of me, understand why intelligent Americans attack with such hatred the very culture that has created our fair, creative, and productive society, and insist on embracing vulgar and childish replacements.

    Your arguments about eliminating hatred and maximizing the potential of all citizens, regardless of race, is valid. I also don't think it's controversial among reasonable people.

    But you seem to frame the discussion as one in which the dominant ethnic group (Europeans in the US, Chinese in China) maintains control of the culture. Your hypothetical about how China would integrate 13% of its population belies this.

    But that is not what's happening in the US. The majority (whites) are quickly becoming a minority. I believe that among newborns, whites are already in the minority. And therefore, in a free republic like the US, the question will not be how can whites help minorities maximize their potential. It will be how will blacks and Hispanics reshape this country with their political and cultural power once they are the majority. This is a fundamentally and profoundly different question.

    We have clues from other countries: Mexico, South Africa, Brazil, Iran, etc. We also have clues within the US: Detroit, Cleveland, DC, and LA. None of those fill me with hope. I do not want to live in Detroit or LA.

    You comment raises the question: Why do African Americans behave worse in several metrics now than before? One possibility is that previously, the US was much more dominated by traditional conservative European culture. People can and do conform to the dominant culture to a degree. If I moved to Japan, I would doubtlessly act more Japanese, even if I'd never fully fit in, at least partially because I have different traits. As blacks have grown in numbers, political power, and cultural power, they feel less pressure to act white, and more free to form societies more natural for the set of traits that they have. For example, African societies do not place value on fidelity.

    So, you should change your hypothetical from how would China deal with 13% blacks, to how would the Chinese deal with becoming a minority in China, with fair and free elections to all citizens. That is what the US is facing.

    If I moved to Japan, I would doubtlessly act more Japanese,

    I think you are severely underestimating the inherent power in white DNA, Old Sod:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=134&v=wYQcU5VXde8

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