The Unz Review - Mobile
A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media

Bookmark Toggle AllToCAdd to LibraryRemove from Library • BShow CommentNext New CommentNext New Reply
Current Commenter says:

Leave a Reply -


 Remember My InformationWhy?
 Email Replies to my Comment
Submitted comments become the property of The Unz Review and may be republished elsewhere at the sole discretion of the latter
Commenters to FollowHide Excerpts
By Authors Filter?
Andrei Martyanov Andrew J. Bacevich Andrew Joyce Andrew Napolitano Boyd D. Cathey Brad Griffin C.J. Hopkins Chanda Chisala Eamonn Fingleton Eric Margolis Fred Reed Godfree Roberts Gustavo Arellano Ilana Mercer Israel Shamir James Kirkpatrick James Petras James Thompson Jared Taylor JayMan John Derbyshire John Pilger Jonathan Revusky Kevin MacDonald Linh Dinh Michael Hoffman Michael Hudson Mike Whitney Nathan Cofnas Norman Finkelstein Pat Buchanan Patrick Cockburn Paul Craig Roberts Paul Gottfried Paul Kersey Peter Frost Peter Lee Philip Giraldi Philip Weiss Robert Weissberg Ron Paul Ron Unz Stephen J. Sniegoski The Saker Tom Engelhardt A. Graham Adam Hochschild Aedon Cassiel Ahmet Öncü Alexander Cockburn Alexander Hart Alfred McCoy Alison Rose Levy Alison Weir Anand Gopal Andre Damon Andrew Cockburn Andrew Fraser Andy Kroll Ann Jones Anonymous Anthony DiMaggio Ariel Dorfman Arlie Russell Hochschild Arno Develay Arnold Isaacs Artem Zagorodnov Astra Taylor Austen Layard Aviva Chomsky Ayman Fadel Barbara Ehrenreich Barbara Garson Barbara Myers Barry Lando Belle Chesler Beverly Gologorsky Bill Black Bill Moyers Bob Dreyfuss Bonnie Faulkner Brenton Sanderson Brett Redmayne-Titley Brian Dew Carl Horowitz Catherine Crump Charles Bausman Charles Goodhart Charles Wood Charlotteville Survivor Chase Madar Chris Hedges Chris Roberts Christian Appy Christopher DeGroot Chuck Spinney Coleen Rowley Cooper Sterling Craig Murray Dahr Jamail Dan E. Phillips Dan Sanchez Daniel McAdams Danny Sjursen Dave Kranzler Dave Lindorff David Barsamian David Bromwich David Chibo David Gordon David North David Vine David Walsh David William Pear Dean Baker Dennis Saffran Diana Johnstone Dilip Hiro Dirk Bezemer Ed Warner Edmund Connelly Eduardo Galeano Ellen Cantarow Ellen Packer Ellison Lodge Eric Draitser Eric Zuesse Erik Edstrom Erika Eichelberger Erin L. Thompson Eugene Girin F. Roger Devlin Franklin Lamb Frida Berrigan Friedrich Zauner Gabriel Black Gary Corseri Gary North Gary Younge Gene Tuttle George Albert George Bogdanich George Szamuely Georgianne Nienaber Glenn Greenwald Greg Grandin Greg Johnson Gregoire Chamayou Gregory Foster Gregory Hood Gregory Wilpert Guest Admin Hannah Appel Hans-Hermann Hoppe Harri Honkanen Henry Cockburn Hina Shamsi Howard Zinn Hubert Collins Hugh McInnish Ira Chernus Jack Kerwick Jack Rasmus Jack Ravenwood Jack Sen James Bovard James Carroll James Fulford Jane Lazarre Jared S. Baumeister Jason C. Ditz Jason Kessler Jay Stanley Jeff J. Brown Jeffrey Blankfort Jeffrey St. Clair Jen Marlowe Jeremiah Goulka Jeremy Cooper Jesse Mossman Jim Daniel Jim Kavanagh JoAnn Wypijewski Joe Lauria Johannes Wahlstrom John W. Dower John Feffer John Fund John Harrison Sims John Reid John Stauber John Taylor John V. Walsh John Williams Jon Else Jonathan Alan King Jonathan Anomaly Jonathan Rooper Jonathan Schell Joseph Kishore Juan Cole Judith Coburn K.R. Bolton Karel Van Wolferen Karen Greenberg Kelley Vlahos Kersasp D. Shekhdar Kevin Barrett Kevin Zeese Kshama Sawant Lance Welton Laura Gottesdiener Laura Poitras Laurent Guyénot Lawrence G. Proulx Leo Hohmann Linda Preston Logical Meme Lorraine Barlett M.G. Miles Mac Deford Maidhc O Cathail Malcolm Unwell Marcus Alethia Marcus Cicero Margaret Flowers Mark Danner Mark Engler Mark Perry Matt Parrott Mattea Kramer Matthew Harwood Matthew Richer Matthew Stevenson Max Blumenthal Max Denken Max North Maya Schenwar Michael Gould-Wartofsky Michael Schwartz Michael T. Klare Murray Polner Nan Levinson Naomi Oreskes Nate Terani Ned Stark Nelson Rosit Nicholas Stix Nick Kollerstrom Nick Turse Noam Chomsky Nomi Prins Patrick Cleburne Patrick Cloutier Paul Cochrane Paul Engler Paul Nachman Paul Nehlen Pepe Escobar Peter Brimelow Peter Gemma Peter Van Buren Pierre M. Sprey Pratap Chatterjee Publius Decius Mus Rajan Menon Ralph Nader Ramin Mazaheri Ramziya Zaripova Randy Shields Ray McGovern Razib Khan Rebecca Gordon Rebecca Solnit Richard Krushnic Richard Silverstein Rick Shenkman Rita Rozhkova Robert Baxter Robert Bonomo Robert Fisk Robert Lipsyte Robert Parry Robert Roth Robert S. Griffin Robert Scheer Robert Trivers Robin Eastman Abaya Roger Dooghy Ronald N. Neff Rory Fanning Sam Francis Sam Husseini Sayed Hasan Sharmini Peries Sheldon Richman Spencer Davenport Spencer Quinn Stefan Karganovic Steffen A. Woll Stephanie Savell Stephen J. Rossi Steve Fraser Steven Yates Sydney Schanberg Tanya Golash-Boza Ted Rall Theodore A. Postol Thierry Meyssan Thomas Frank Thomas O. Meehan Tim Shorrock Tim Weiner Tobias Langdon Todd E. Pierce Todd Gitlin Todd Miller Tom Piatak Tom Suarez Tom Sunic Tracy Rosenberg Virginia Dare Vladimir Brovkin Vox Day W. Patrick Lang Walter Block William Binney William DeBuys William Hartung William J. Astore Winslow T. Wheeler Ximena Ortiz Yan Shen
Nothing found
By Topics/Categories Filter?
2016 Election 9/11 Academia AIPAC Alt Right American Media American Military American Pravda Anti-Semitism Benjamin Netanyahu Blacks Britain China Conservative Movement Conspiracy Theories Deep State Donald Trump Economics Foreign Policy Hillary Clinton History Ideology Immigration IQ Iran ISIS Islam Israel Israel Lobby Israel/Palestine Jews Middle East Neocons Political Correctness Race/IQ Race/Ethnicity Republicans Russia Science Syria Terrorism Turkey Ukraine Vladimir Putin World War II 1971 War 2008 Election 2012 Election 2014 Election 23andMe 70th Anniversary Parade 75-0-25 Or Something A Farewell To Alms A. J. West A Troublesome Inheritance Aarab Barghouti Abc News Abdelhamid Abaaoud Abe Abe Foxman Abigail Marsh Abortion Abraham Lincoln Abu Ghraib Abu Zubaydah Academy Awards Acheivement Gap Acid Attacks Adam Schiff Addiction Adoptees Adoption Adoption Twins ADRA2b AEI Affective Empathy Affirmative Action Affordable Family Formation Afghanistan Africa African Americans African Genetics Africans Afrikaner Afrocentricism Agriculture Aha AIDS Ain't Nobody Got Time For That. Ainu Aircraft Carriers AirSea Battle Al Jazeera Al-Qaeda Alan Dershowitz Alan Macfarlane Albania Alberto Del Rosario Albion's Seed Alcohol Alcoholism Alexander Hamilton Alexandre Skirda Alexis De Tocqueville Algeria All Human Behavioral Traits Are Heritable All Traits Are Heritable Alpha Centauri Alpha Males Alt Left Altruism Amazon.com America The Beautiful American Atheists American Debt American Exceptionalism American Flag American Jews American Left American Legion American Nations American Nations American Prisons American Renaissance Americana Amerindians Amish Amish Quotient Amnesty Amnesty International Amoral Familialism Amy Chua Amygdala An Hbd Liberal Anaconda Anatoly Karlin Ancestry Ancient DNA Ancient Genetics Ancient Jews Ancient Near East Anders Breivik Andrei Nekrasov Andrew Jackson Androids Angela Stent Angelina Jolie Anglo-Saxons Ann Coulter Anne Buchanan Anne Heche Annual Country Reports On Terrorism Anthropology Antibiotics Antifa Antiquity Antiracism Antisocial Behavior Antiwar Movement Antonin Scalia Antonio Trillanes IV Anywhere But Here Apartheid Appalachia Appalachians Arab Christianity Arab Spring Arabs Archaic DNA Archaic Humans Arctic Humans Arctic Resources Argentina Argentina Default Armenians Army-McCarthy Hearings Arnon Milchan Art Arthur Jensen Artificial Intelligence As-Safir Ash Carter Ashkenazi Intelligence Ashkenazi Jews Ashraf Ghani Asia Asian Americans Asian Quotas Asians ASPM Assassinations Assimilation Assortative Mating Atheism Atlantic Council Attractiveness Attractiveness Australia Australian Aboriginals Austria Austro-Hungarian Empire Austronesians Autism Automation Avi Tuschman Avigdor Lieberman Ayodhhya Babri Masjid Baby Boom Baby Gap Baby Girl Jay Backlash Bacterial Vaginosis Bad Science Bahrain Balanced Polymorphism Balkans Baltimore Riots Bangladesh Banking Banking Industry Banking System Banks Barack H. Obama Barack Obama Barbara Comstock Bariatric Surgery Baseball Bashar Al-Assad Baumeister BDA BDS Movement Beauty Beauty Standards Behavior Genetics Behavioral Genetics Behaviorism Beijing Belgrade Embassy Bombing Believeing In Observational Studies Is Nuts Ben Cardin Ben Carson Benghazi Benjamin Cardin Berlin Wall Bernard Henri-Levy Bernard Lewis Bernie Madoff Bernie Sanders Bernies Sanders Beta Males BICOM Big Five Bilingual Education Bill 59 Bill Clinton Bill Kristol Bill Maher Billionaires Billy Graham Birds Of A Feather Birth Order Birth Rate Bisexuality Bisexuals BJP Black Americans Black Crime Black History Black Lives Matter Black Metal Black Muslims Black Panthers Black Women Attractiveness Blackface Blade Runner Blogging Blond Hair Blue Eyes Bmi Boasian Anthropology Boderlanders Boeing Boers Boiling Off Boko Haram Bolshevik Revolution Books Border Reivers Borderlander Borderlanders Boris Johnson Bosnia Boston Bomb Boston Marathon Bombing Bowe Bergdahl Boycott Divest And Sanction Boycott Divestment And Sanctions Brain Brain Scans Brain Size Brain Structure Brazil Breaking Down The Bullshit Breeder's Equation Bret Stephens Brexit Brian Boutwell Brian Resnick BRICs Brighter Brains Brighton Broken Hill Brown Eyes Bruce Jenner Bruce Lahn brussels Bryan Caplan BS Bundy Family Burakumin Burma Bush Administration C-section Cagots Caitlyn Jenner California Cambodia Cameron Russell Campaign Finance Campaign For Liberty Campus Rape Canada Canada Day Canadian Flag Canadians Cancer Candida Albicans Cannabis Capital Punishment Capitalism Captain Chicken Cardiovascular Disease Care Package Carl Sagan Carly Fiorina Caroline Glick Carroll Quigley Carry Me Back To Ole Virginny Carter Page Castes Catalonia Catholic Church Catholicism Catholics Causation Cavaliers CCTV Censorship Central Asia Chanda Chisala Charles Darwin Charles Krauthammer Charles Murray Charles Schumer Charleston Shooting Charlie Hebdo Charlie Rose Charlottesville Chechens Chechnya Cherlie Hebdo Child Abuse Child Labor Children Chimerism China/America China Stock Market Meltdown China Vietnam Chinese Chinese Communist Party Chinese Evolution Chinese Exclusion Act Chlamydia Chris Gown Chris Rock Chris Stringer Christian Fundamentalism Christianity Christmas Christopher Steele Chuck Chuck Hagel Chuck Schumer CIA Cinema Civil Liberties Civil Rights Civil War Civilian Deaths CJIA Clannishness Clans Clark-unz Selection Classical Economics Classical History Claude-Lévi-Strauss Climate Climate Change Clinton Global Initiative Cliodynamics Cloudburst Flight Clovis Cochran And Harpending Coefficient Of Relationship Cognitive Empathy Cognitive Psychology Cohorts Cold War Colin Kaepernick Colin Woodard Colombia Colonialism Colonists Coming Apart Comments Communism Confederacy Confederate Flag Conflict Of Interest Congress Consanguinity Conscientiousness Consequences Conservatism Conservatives Constitution Constitutional Theory Consumer Debt Cornel West Corporal Punishment Correlation Is Still Not Causation Corruption Corruption Perception Index Costa Concordia Cousin Marriage Cover Story CPEC Craniometry CRIF Crime Crimea Criminality Crowded Crowding Cruise Missiles Cuba Cuban Missile Crisis Cuckold Envy Cuckservative Cultural Evolution Cultural Marxism Cut The Sh*t Guys DACA Dads Vs Cads Daily Mail Dalai Lama Dallas Shooting Dalliard Dalton Trumbo Damascus Bombing Dan Freedman Dana Milbank Daniel Callahan Danish Daren Acemoglu Dark Ages Dark Tetrad Dark Triad Darwinism Data Posts David Brooks David Friedman David Frum David Goldenberg David Hackett Fischer David Ignatius David Katz David Kramer David Lane David Petraeus Davide Piffer Davos Death Death Penalty Debbie Wasserman-Schultz Debt Declaration Of Universal Human Rights Deep Sleep Deep South Democracy Democratic Party Democrats Demographic Transition Demographics Demography Denisovans Denmark Dennis Ross Depression Deprivation Deregulation Derek Harvey Desired Family Size Detroit Development Developmental Noise Developmental Stability Diabetes Diagnostic And Statistical Manual Of Mental Disorders Dialects Dick Cheney Die Nibelungen Dienekes Diet Different Peoples Is Different Dinesh D'Souza Dirty Bomb Discrimination Discrimination Paradigm Disney Dissent Diversity Dixie Django Unchained Do You Really Want To Know? Doing My Part Doll Tests Dollar Domestic Terrorism Dominique Strauss-Kahn Dopamine Douglas MacArthur Dr James Thompson Drd4 Dreams From My Father Dresden Drew Barrymore Dreyfus Affair Drinking Drone War Drones Drug Cartels Drugs Dry Counties DSM Dunning-kruger Effect Dusk In Autumn Dustin Hoffman Duterte Dylan Roof Dylann Roof Dysgenic E.O. 9066 E. O. Wilson Eagleman East Asia East Asians Eastern Europe Eastern Europeans Ebola Economic Development Economic Sanctions Economy Ed Miller Education Edward Price Edward Snowden EEA Egypt Eisenhower El Salvador Elections Electric Cars Elie Wiesel Eliot Cohen Eliot Engel Elites Ellen Walker Elliot Abrams Elliot Rodger Elliott Abrams Elon Musk Emigration Emil Kirkegaard Emmanuel Macron Emmanuel Todd Empathy England English Civil War Enhanced Interrogations Enoch Powell Entrepreneurship Environment Environmental Estrogens Environmentalism Erdogan Eric Cantor Espionage Estrogen Ethiopia Ethnic Genetic Interests Ethnic Nepotism Ethnicity EU Eugenic Eugenics Eurasia Europe European Right European Union Europeans Eurozone Everything Evil Evolution Evolutionary Biology Evolutionary Psychology Exercise Extraversion Extreterrestrials Eye Color Eyes Ezra Cohen-Watnick Face Recognition Face Shape Faces Facts Fake News fallout Family Studies Far West Farmers Farming Fascism Fat Head Fat Shaming Father Absence FBI Federal Reserve Female Deference Female Homosexuality Female Sexual Response Feminism Feminists Ferguson Shooting Fertility Fertility Fertility Rates Fethullah Gulen Fetish Feuds Fields Medals FIFA Fifty Shades Of Grey Film Finance Financial Bailout Financial Bubbles Financial Debt Financial Sector Financial Times Finland First Amendment First Law First World War FISA Fitness Flags Flight From White Fluctuating Asymmetry Flynn Effect Food Football For Profit Schools Foreign Service Fourth Of July Fracking Fragrances France Francesco Schettino Frank Salter Frankfurt School Frantz Fanon Franz Boas Fred Hiatt Fred Reed Freddie Gray Frederic Hof Free Speech Free Trade Free Will Freedom Of Navigation Freedom Of Speech French Canadians French National Front French Paradox Friendly & Conventional Front National Frost-harpending Selection Fulford Funny G G Spot Gaddafi Gallipoli Game Gardnerella Vaginalis Gary Taubes Gay Germ Gay Marriage Gays/Lesbians Gaza Gaza Flotilla Gcta Gender Gender Gender And Sexuality Gender Confusion Gender Equality Gender Identity Disorder Gender Reassignment Gene-Culture Coevolution Gene-environment Correlation General Intelligence General Social Survey General Theory Of The West Genes Genes: They Matter Bitches Genetic Diversity Genetic Divides Genetic Engineering Genetic Load Genetic Pacification Genetics Genetics Of Height Genocide Genomics Geography Geopolitics George Bush George Clooney George Patton George Romero George Soros George Tenet George W. Bush George Wallace Germ Theory German Catholics Germans Germany Get It Right Get Real Ghouta Gilgit Baltistan Gina Haspel Glenn Beck Glenn Greenwald Global Terrorism Index Global Warming Globalism Globalization God Delusion Goetsu Going Too Far Gold Gold Warriors Goldman Sachs Good Advice Google Gordon Gallup Goths Government Debt Government Incompetence Government Spending Government Surveillance Great Depression Great Leap Forward Great Recession Greater Appalachia Greece Greeks Greg Clark Greg Cochran Gregory B Christainsen Gregory Clark Gregory Cochran Gregory House GRF Grooming Group Intelligence Group Selection Grumpy Cat GSS Guangzhou Guantanamo Guardian Guilt Culture Gun Control Guns Gynephilia Gypsies H-1B H Bomb H.R. McMaster H1-B Visas Haim Saban Hair Color Hair Lengthening Haiti Hajnal Line Hamas Hamilton: An American Musical Hamilton's Rule Happiness Happy Turkey Day ... Unless You're The Turkey Harriet Tubman Harry Jaffa Harvard Harvey Weinstein Hasbara Hassidim Hate Crimes Hate Speech Hatemi Havelock Ellis Haymarket Affair Hbd Hbd Chick HBD Denial Hbd Fallout Hbd Readers Head Size Health And Medicine Health Care Healthcare Heart Disease Heart Health Heart Of Asia Conference Heartiste Heather Norton Height Helmuth Nyborg Hemoglobin Henri De Man Henry Harpending Henry Kissinger Herbert John Fleure Heredity Heritability Hexaco Hezbollah High Iq Fertility Hip Hop Hiroshima Hispanic Crime Hispanic Paradox Hispanics Historical Genetics Hitler HKND Hollywood Holocaust Homicide Homicide Rate Homo Altaiensis Homophobia Homosexuality Honesty-humility House Intelligence Committee House M.d. House Md House Of Cards Housing Huey Long Huey Newton Hugo Chavez Human Biodiversity Human Evolution Human Genetics Human Genomics Human Nature Human Rights Human Varieties Humor Hungary Hunter-Gatherers Hunting Hurricane Hurricane Harvey I.F. Stone I Kissed A Girl And I Liked It I Love Italians I.Q. Genomics Ian Deary Ibd Ibo Ice T Iceland I'd Like To Think It's Obvious I Know What I'm Talking About Ideology And Worldview Idiocracy Igbo Ignorance Ilana Mercer Illegal Immigration IMF immigrants Immigration Imperial Presidency Imperialism Imran Awan In The Electric Mist Inbreeding Income Independence Day India Indians Individualism Inequality Infection Theory Infidelity Intelligence Internet Internet Research Agency Interracial Marriage Inuit Ioannidis Ioannis Metaxas Iosif Lazaridis Iq Iq And Wealth Iran Nuclear Agreement Iran Nuclear Program Iran Sanctions Iranian Nuclear Program Iraq Iraq War Ireland Irish ISIS. Terrorism Islamic Jihad Islamophobia Isolationism Israel Defense Force Israeli Occupation Israeli Settlements Israeli Spying Italianthro Italy It's Determinism - Genetics Is Just A Part It's Not Nature And Nurture Ivanka Ivy League Iwo Eleru J. Edgar Hoover Jack Keane Jake Tapper JAM-GC Jamaica James Clapper James Comey James Fanell James Mattis James Wooley Jamie Foxx Jane Harman Jane Mayer Janet Yellen Japan Japanese Jared Diamond Jared Kushner Jared Taylor Jason Malloy JASTA Jayman Jr. Jayman's Wife Jeff Bezos Jennifer Rubin Jensen Jeremy Corbyn Jerrold Nadler Jerry Seinfeld Jesse Bering Jesuits Jewish History JFK Assassination Jill Stein Jim Crow Joe Cirincione Joe Lieberman John Allen John B. Watson John Boehner John Bolton John Brennan John Derbyshire John Durant John F. Kennedy John Hawks John Hoffecker John Kasich John Kerry John Ladue John McCain John McLaughlin John McWhorter John Mearsheimer John Tooby Joke Posts Jonathan Freedland Jonathan Pollard Joseph Lieberman Joseph McCarthy Judaism Judicial System Judith Harris Julian Assange Jute K.d. Lang Kagans Kanazawa Kashmir Katibat Al-Battar Al-Libi Katy Perry Kay Hymowitz Keith Ellison Ken Livingstone Kenneth Marcus Kennewick Man Kevin MacDonald Kevin McCarthy Kevin Mitchell Kevin Williamson KGL-9268 Khazars Kim Jong Un Kimberly Noble Kin Altruism Kin Selection Kink Kinship Kissing Kiwis Kkk Knesset Know-nothings Korea Korean War Kosovo Ku Klux Klan Kurds Kurt Campbell Labor Day Lactose Lady Gaga Language Larkana Conspiracy Larry Summers Larung Gar Las Vegas Massacre Latin America Latinos Latitude Latvia Law Law Of War Manual Laws Of Behavioral Genetics Lead Poisoning Lebanon Leda Cosmides Lee Kuan Yew Left Coast Left/Right Lenin Leo Strauss Lesbians LGBT Liberal Creationism Liberalism Liberals Libertarianism Libertarians Libya life-expectancy Life In Space Life Liberty And The Pursuit Of Happyness Lifestyle Light Skin Preference Lindsay Graham Lindsey Graham Literacy Litvinenko Lloyd Blankfein Locus Of Control Logan's Run Lombok Strait Long Ass Posts Longevity Look AHEAD Looting Lorde Love Love Dolls Lover Boys Low-carb Low-fat Low Wages LRSO Lutherans Lyndon Johnson M Factor M.g. MacArthur Awards Machiavellianism Madeleine Albright Mahmoud Abbas Maine Malacca Strait Malaysian Airlines MH17 Male Homosexuality Mamasapano Mangan Manor Manorialism Manosphere Manufacturing Mao-a Mao Zedong Maoism Maori Map Posts maps Marc Faber Marco Rubio Marijuana Marine Le Pen Mark Carney Mark Steyn Mark Warner Market Economy Marriage Martin Luther King Marwan Marwan Barghouti Marxism Mary White Ovington Masha Gessen Mass Shootings Massacre In Nice Mate Choice Mate Value Math Mathematics Maulana Bhashani Max Blumenthal Max Boot Max Brooks Mayans McCain/POW Mearsheimer-Walt Measurement Error Mega-Aggressions Mega-anlysis Megan Fox Megyn Kelly Melanin Memorial Day Mental Health Mental Illness Mental Traits Meritocracy Merkel Mesolithic Meta-analysis Meth Mexican-American War Mexico Michael Anton Michael Bloomberg Michael Flynn Michael Hudson Michael Jackson Michael Lewis Michael Morell Michael Pompeo Michael Weiss Michael Woodley Michele Bachmann Michelle Bachmann Michelle Obama Microaggressions Microcephalin Microsoft Middle Ages Mideastwire Migration Mike Huckabee Mike Pence Mike Pompeo Mike Signer Mikhail Khodorkovsky Militarized Police Military Military Pay Military Spending Milner Group Mindanao Minimum Wage Minnesota Transracial Adoption Study Minorities Minstrels Mirror Neurons Miscellaneous Misdreavus Missile Defense Mitt Romney Mixed-Race Modern Humans Mohammed Bin Salman Moldova Monogamy Moral Absolutism Moral Universalism Morality Mormons Moro Mortality Mossad Mountains Movies Moxie Mrs. Jayman MTDNA Muammar Gaddafi Multiculturalism Multiregional Model Music Muslim Muslim Ban Muslims Mutual Assured Destruction My Lai My Old Kentucky Home Myanmar Mysticism Nagasaki Nancy Segal Narendra Modi Nascar National Debt National Differences National Review National Security State National Security Strategy National Wealth Nationalism Native Americans NATO Natural Selection Nature Vs. Nurture Navy Yard Shooting Naz Shah Nazi Nazis Nazism Nbc News Nbc Nightly News Neanderthals NED Neo-Nazis Neoconservatism Neoconservatives Neoliberalism Neolithic Netherlands Neuropolitics Neuroticism Never Forget The Genetic Confound New Addition New Atheists New Cold War New England Patriots New France New French New Netherland New Qing History New Rules New Silk Road New World Order New York City New York Times Newfoundland Newt Gingrich NFL Nicaragua Canal Nicholas Sarkozy Nicholas Wade Nigeria Nightly News Nikki Haley No Free Will Nobel Prize Nobel Prized Nobosuke Kishi Nordics North Africa North Korea Northern Ireland Northwest Europe Norway NSA NSA Surveillance Nuclear Proliferation Nuclear War Nuclear Weapons Null Result Nurture Nurture Assumption Nutrition Nuts NYPD O Mio Babbino Caro Obama Obamacare Obesity Obscured American Occam's Razor Occupy Occupy Wall Street Oceania Oil Oil Industry Old Folks At Home Olfaction Oliver Stone Olympics Omega Males Ominous Signs Once You Go Black Open To Experience Openness To Experience Operational Sex Ratio Opiates Opioids Orban Organ Transplants Orlando Shooting Orthodoxy Osama Bin Laden Ottoman Empire Our Political Nature Out Of Africa Model Outbreeding Oxtr Oxytocin Paekchong Pakistan Pakistani Palatability Paleoamerindians Paleocons Paleolibertarianism Palestine Palestinians Pamela Geller Panama Canal Panama Papers Parasite Parasite Burden Parasite Manipulation Parent-child Interactions Parenting Parenting Parenting Behavioral Genetics Paris Attacks Paris Spring Parsi Paternal Investment Pathogens Patriot Act Patriotism Paul Ewald Paul Krugman Paul Lepage Paul Manafort Paul Ryan Paul Singer Paul Wolfowitz Pavel Grudinin Peace Index Peak Jobs Pearl Harbor Pedophilia Peers Peggy Seagrave Pennsylvania Pentagon Perception Management Personality Peru Peter Frost Peter Thiel Peter Turchin Phil Onderdonk Phil Rushton Philip Breedlove Philippines Physical Anthropology Pierre Van Den Berghe Pieter Van Ostaeyen Piigs Pioneer Hypothesis Pioneers PISA Pizzagate Planets Planned Parenthood Pledge Of Allegiance Pleiotropy Pol Pot Poland Police State Police Training Politics Poll Results Polls Polygenic Score Polygyny Pope Francis Population Growth Population Replacement Populism Pornography Portugal Post 199 Post 201 Post 99 Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc Post-Nationalism Pot Poverty PRC Prenatal Hormones Prescription Drugs Press Censorship Pretty Graphs Prince Bandar Priti Patel Privatization Progressives Project Plowshares Propaganda Prostitution Protestantism Proud To Be Black Psychology Psychometrics Psychopaths Psychopathy Pubertal Timing Public Schools Puerto Rico Punishment Puritans Putin Pwc Qatar Quakers Quantitative Genetics Quebec Quebecois Race Race And Crime Race And Genomics Race And Iq Race And Religion Race/Crime Race Denialism Race Riots Rachel Dolezal Rachel Maddow Racial Intelligence Racial Reality Racism Radical Islam Ralph And Coop Ralph Nader Rand Paul Randy Fine Rap Music Raqqa Rating People Rationality Raul Pedrozo Razib Khan Reaction Time Reading Real Estate Real Women Really Stop The Armchair Psychoanalysis Recep Tayyip Erdogan Reciprocal Altruism Reconstruction Red Hair Red State Blue State Red States Blue States Refugee Crisis Regional Differences Regional Populations Regression To The Mean Religion Religion Religion And Philosophy Rena Wing Renewable Energy Rentier Reprint Reproductive Strategy Republican Jesus Republican Party Responsibility Reuel Gerecht Reverend Moon Revolution Of 1905 Revolutions Rex Tillerson Richard Dawkins Richard Dyer Richard Lewontin Richard Lynn Richard Nixon Richard Pryor Richard Pryor Live On The Sunset Strip Richard Russell Rick Perry Rickets Rikishi Robert Ford Robert Kraft Robert Lindsay Robert McNamara Robert Mueller Robert Mugabe Robert Plomin Robert Putnam Robert Reich Robert Spencer Robocop Robots Roe Vs. Wade Roger Ailes Rohingya Roman Empire Rome Ron Paul Ron Unz Ronald Reagan Rooshv Rosemary Hopcroft Ross Douthat Ross Perot Rotherham Roy Moore RT International Rupert Murdoch Rural Liberals Rushton Russell Kirk Russia-Georgia War Russiagate Russian Elections 2018 Russian Hack Russian History Russian Military Russian Orthodox Church Ruth Benedict Saakashvili Sam Harris Same Sex Attraction Same-sex Marriage Same-sex Parents Samoans Samuel George Morton San Bernadino Massacre Sandra Beleza Sandusky Sandy Hook Sarah Palin Sarin Gas Satoshi Kanazawa saudi Saudi Arabia Saying What You Have To Say Scandinavia Scandinavians Scarborough Shoal Schizophrenia Science: It Works Bitches Scientism Scotch-irish Scotland Scots Irish Scott Ritter Scrabble Secession Seduced By Food Semai Senate Separating The Truth From The Nonsense Serbia Serenity Sergei Magnitsky Sergei Skripal Sex Sex Ratio Sex Ratio At Birth Sex Recognition Sex Tape Sex Work Sexism Sexual Antagonistic Selection Sexual Dimorphism Sexual Division Of Labor Sexual Fluidity Sexual Identity Sexual Maturation Sexual Orientation Sexual Selection Sexually Transmitted Diseases Seymour Hersh Shai Masot Shame Culture Shanghai Cooperation Organisation Shanghai Stock Exchange Shared Environment Shekhovstov Sheldon Adelson Shias And Sunnis Shimon Arad Shimon Peres Shinzo Abe Shmuley Boteach Shorts And Funnies Shoshana Bryen Shurat HaDin Shyness Siamak Namazi Sibel Edmonds Siberia Silicon Valley Simon Baron Cohen Singapore Single Men Single Motherhood Single Mothers Single Women Sisyphean Six Day War SJWs Skin Bleaching Skin Color Skin Tone Slate Slave Trade Slavery Slavoj Zizek Slavs SLC24A5 Sleep Slobodan Milosevic Smart Fraction Smell Smoking Snow Snyderman Social Constructs Social Justice Warriors Socialism Sociopathy Sociosexuality Solar Energy Solutions Somalia Sometimes You Don't Like The Answer South Africa South Asia South China Sea South Korea South Sudan Southern Italians Southern Poverty Law Center Soviet Union Space Space Space Program Space Race Spain Spanish Paradox Speech SPLC Sports Sputnik News Squid Ink Srebrenica Stabby Somali Staffan Stalinism Stanislas Dehaene Star Trek State Department State Formation States Rights Statins Steny Hoyer Stephan Guyenet Stephen Cohen Stephen Colbert Stephen Hadley Stephen Jay Gould Sterling Seagrave Steve Bannon Steve Sailer Steven Mnuchin Steven Pinker Still Not Free Buddy Stolen Generations Strategic Affairs Ministry Stroke Belt Student Loans Stuxnet SU-57 Sub-replacement Fertility Sub-Saharan Africa Sub-Saharan Africans Subprime Mortgage Crisis Subsistence Living Suffrage Sugar Suicide Summing It All Up Supernatural Support Me Support The Jayman Supreme Court Supression Surveillance Susan Glasser Susan Rice Sweden Swiss Switzerland Syed Farook Syrian Refugees Syriza Ta-Nehisi Coates Taiwan Tale Of Two Maps Taliban Tamerlan Tsarnaev TAS2R16 Tashfeen Malik Taste Tastiness Tatars Tatu Vanhanen Tawang Tax Cuts Tax Evasion Taxes Tea Party Team Performance Technology Ted Cruz Tell Me About You Tell The Truth Terman Terman's Termites Terroris Terrorists Tesla Testosterone Thailand The 10000 Year Explosion The Bible The Breeder's Equation The Confederacy The Dark Knight The Dark Triad The Death Penalty The Deep South The Devil Is In The Details The Dustbowl The Economist The Far West The Future The Great Plains The Great Wall The Left The Left Coast The New York Times The Pursuit Of Happyness The Rock The Saker The Son Also Rises The South The Walking Dead The Washington Post The Wide Environment The World Theodore Roosevelt Theresa May Things Going Sour Third World Thomas Aquinas Thomas Friedman Thomas Perez Thomas Sowell Thomas Talhelm Thorstein Veblen Thurgood Marshall Tibet Tidewater Tiger Mom Time Preference Timmons Title IX Tobin Tax Tom Cotton Tom Naughton Tone It Down Guys Seriously Tony Blair Torture Toxoplasma Gondii TPP Traffic Traffic Fatalities Tragedy Trans-Species Polymorphism Transgender Transgenderism Transsexuals Treasury Tropical Humans Trump Trust TTIP Tuition Tulsi Gabbard Turkheimer TWA 800 Twin Study Twins Twins Raised Apart Twintuition Twitter Two Party System UKIP Ukrainian Crisis UN Security Council Unemployment Unions United Kingdom United Nations United States Universalism University Admissions Upper Paleolithic Urban Riots Ursula Gauthier Uruguay US Blacks USS Liberty Utopian Uttar Pradesh UV Uyghurs Vaginal Yeast Valerie Plame Vassopressin Vdare Veep Venezuela Veterans Administration Victor Canfield Victor Davis Hanson Victoria Nuland Victorian England Victorianism Video Games Vietnam Vietnam War Vietnamese Vikings Violence Vioxx Virginia Visa Waivers Visual Word Form Area Vitamin D Voronezh Vote Fraud Vouchers Vwfa W.E.I.R.D. W.E.I.R.D.O. Wahhabis Wall Street Walter Bodmer Wang Jing War On Christmas War On Terror Washington Post WasPage Watergate Watsoning We Are What We Are We Don't Know All The Environmental Causes Weight Loss WEIRDO Welfare Western Europe Western European Marriage Pattern Western Media Western Religion Westerns What Can You Do What's The Cause Where They're At Where's The Fallout White America White Americans White Conservative Males White Death White Helmets White Nationalist Nuttiness White Nationalists White Privilege White Slavery White Supremacy White Wife Why We Believe Hbd Wikileaks Wild Life Wilhelm Furtwangler William Browder William Buckley William D. Hamilton William Graham Sumner William McGougall WINEP Winston Churchill Women In The Workplace Woodley Effect Woodrow Wilson WORDSUM Workers Working Class Working Memory World Values Survey World War I World War Z Writing WTO X Little Miss JayLady Xhosa Xi Jinping Xinjiang Yankeedom Yankees Yazidis Yemen Yes I Am A Brother Yes I Am Liberal - But That Kind Of Liberal Yochi Dreazen You Can't Handle The Truth You Don't Know Shit Youtube Ban Yugoslavia Zbigniew Brzezinski Zhang Yimou Zika Zika Virus Zimbabwe Zionism Zombies Zones Of Thought Zulfikar Ali Bhutto
Nothing found
All Commenters • My
Comments
• Followed
Commenters
All Comments / On "Baseball Statistics"
 All Comments / On "Baseball Statistics"
    The Washington Post has an article with some interesting graphics about how home run hitting in baseball is up, perhaps attributable to the introduction of technology in 2015 recording the launch angle and exit velocity of batted balls. In 2016 a number of hitters, such as Daniel Murphy of the Washington Nationals, switched to trying...
  • The most radical change would be to dig up the outfield and resod them, sloping the outfields downward away from home plate, kind of like at the Lord’s Cricket Club in London.

    Dunno about that being The Most Radical Change.

    Howbout playing only night games with no illumination other than that provided by the claymores buried in the outfield at locations marked by the pooping of a duckling following a cat wearing a shark suit riding a Roomba.

    The M18, not the sword. I imagine it something like this:

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @anonymous
    If you want your young son to have a chance to play (someday) on a decent high school varsity baseball team, then as a father you have to get him out of Parks and Rec league and into Travel Baseball (Club, Fed, etc.) by no later than age 11. Most dads today know the game well at that level, and are reasonably good at teaching it.

    In 2017, there is no way that a decent varsity team is going to keep kids who don't have a long history of travel ball.

    To a lesser extent (for now), the same is true for girls volleyball. If you have a tall, athletic (white) daughter for whom you think volleyball may be a good fit, then you need to have her in travel ball by 7th grade. Parents aren't the coaches - knowledgeable volleyball coaches do the teaching, and in my experience, they know what they're doing.

    Which is another I-Steve variation: do white parents of tall girls deliberately steer their athletic daughters away from basketball and toward (expensive, exclusive, etc.) volleyball instead?

    I'd say yes.

    Today's travel volleyball tournaments are both very well-played and (almost) entirely white.

    do white parents of tall girls deliberately steer their athletic daughters away from basketball and toward (expensive, exclusive, etc.) volleyball instead?

    A black female coworker recently lamented to me that her 13 y/o biracial daughter (private school, academically-oriented, feminine, and pleasant) loves basketball and isn’t half bad at the fundamentals and the jump shot, but the mom is worried that the more aggressive, public school, black girls are too big and rough for her baby. Volleyball will be a likely alternative.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Danindc
    Humble brag of the century Hodar

    It’s a daily fee course. Not much to brag about.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Danindc
    If Steve keeps up his current pace for another 15 years it's going to be Edison, Da Vinci and Sailer.

    I'm f'n serious.

    More like Montaigne, Addison, Mencken, and Sailer.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • The swing angle story is interesting but there could be more to it. Maybe players are better at increasing testosterone legally now?

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Steve Sailer
    What's Brockmire?

    Hank Azaria is an old-school baseball broadcaster who has a melt-down during a game after discovering his wife has been swinging. He left his job in ignominy, wandering the earth broadcasting whatever he could wherever he could, figuring that after a decade things would have blown over and been forgotten.

    He is unaware that his meltdown was the first “viral video” and the show begins when he takes a gig at a Podunk independent minor league team as the first step of “working his way back to the Show”. He has to deal with being an internet celebrity on top of everything else going on in his life (scrappy, promotion-oriented team owner, oddball locals, retread players, etc.).

    It has its moments. Azaria as Brockmire calling games, especially homers, is pretty funny (“Well, that ball won’t get buried in a Jewish cemetery … it just got TATOOED!!”)

    Interested in your take, check it out…

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Mark Caplan
    Although it occurred before my time, the ancient "hitting them where they ain't" style of baseball sounds like it would be greatly more fun to watch. Batters would choke up on the bat, take compact swings, rarely strike out. The game would move along much faster, with a lot more action, and far fewer long counts ending in an anticlimactic whiff.

    The solution might be this: balls hit out of the park would count as either outs or foul balls. Or how about counting them as ground-rule singles or doubles to discourage batters from always swinging for the fences.

    Sorry Bryce but that 500 foot home run you just hit is an out

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Peripatetic commenter
    Steve, someone has started putting up a list of your articles:

    https://infogalactic.com/info/List_of_Steve_Sailer%27s_articles_on_the_Web

    The number of articles is daunting when you consider your output here at the Unz Review. Just looking at the author archives at the various sites you have articles posted obscures the scale of your output!

    What drives you to be so prolific?

    If Steve keeps up his current pace for another 15 years it’s going to be Edison, Da Vinci and Sailer.

    I’m f’n serious.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Desiderius
    More like Montaigne, Addison, Mencken, and Sailer.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Hodag
    The Dodgers just swept the Cubs by making them hit fly balls. This is a good strategy at Chavez Ravine.

    Trackman launch monitors have really taken over elite golf. The flight of the ball for all these gorillas is similar. The low spin balls just hang in the air forever. Maybe requiring a higher spin ball would keep the bomb and gougers from dominating. The US Open at Erin Hills can stretch their course to 8000 yards. I have turned down two invitations to play because I do not want to walk that much.

    Humble brag of the century Hodar

    Read More
    • Replies: @Ex-banker
    It's a daily fee course. Not much to brag about.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @justwonderingaboutbaseball
    Uppercut swings would be laps around the field for the next practice!

    I was just talking to someone about how funny it is that many things little league coaches&up would drill into us were just not all that helpful.

    Looking back, it was just dads or guys trying their best to apply what they knew, and you learn more important lessons playing a team sport than the sport itself; but there must be a lot of talented guys out there who missed out on opportunities or were overlooked because they were given bad advice or had mediocre coaching.

    That being said, the professional amateur training circuit seems like it comes with its own set of nightmares. I'm not sure if that's an improvement for a majority of kids, including socially.

    If you want your young son to have a chance to play (someday) on a decent high school varsity baseball team, then as a father you have to get him out of Parks and Rec league and into Travel Baseball (Club, Fed, etc.) by no later than age 11. Most dads today know the game well at that level, and are reasonably good at teaching it.

    In 2017, there is no way that a decent varsity team is going to keep kids who don’t have a long history of travel ball.

    To a lesser extent (for now), the same is true for girls volleyball. If you have a tall, athletic (white) daughter for whom you think volleyball may be a good fit, then you need to have her in travel ball by 7th grade. Parents aren’t the coaches – knowledgeable volleyball coaches do the teaching, and in my experience, they know what they’re doing.

    Which is another I-Steve variation: do white parents of tall girls deliberately steer their athletic daughters away from basketball and toward (expensive, exclusive, etc.) volleyball instead?

    I’d say yes.

    Today’s travel volleyball tournaments are both very well-played and (almost) entirely white.

    Read More
    • Replies: @E. Rekshun
    do white parents of tall girls deliberately steer their athletic daughters away from basketball and toward (expensive, exclusive, etc.) volleyball instead?

    A black female coworker recently lamented to me that her 13 y/o biracial daughter (private school, academically-oriented, feminine, and pleasant) loves basketball and isn't half bad at the fundamentals and the jump shot, but the mom is worried that the more aggressive, public school, black girls are too big and rough for her baby. Volleyball will be a likely alternative.

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Chris
    That's often done purposely to wear out a pitcher and drive up his pitch count. It's also psychological warfare, the batter saying "you can't get one past me."

    Those long at-bats with runners on base are often a prelude to a big bust-the-game-open hit; in a big situation it's baseball at its most riveting.

    Those long at-bats with runners on base are often a prelude to a big bust-the-game-open hit; in a big situation it’s baseball at its most riveting.

    Yes, exactly: in a big situation, i.e. in the late innings, and in the LCS or the World Series. Not in ordinary regular-season games.

    I understand why teams pursue this pitcher attrition strategy. It works. I wish there were better ways to disincentivize it without altering something fundamental in the structure of the game.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @The Only Catholic Unionist
    As long as you're on a baseball kick of late, Mr. Sailer, when may we expect a review of "Brockmire" on IFC ... ?

    What’s Brockmire?

    Read More
    • Replies: @The Only Catholic Unionist
    Hank Azaria is an old-school baseball broadcaster who has a melt-down during a game after discovering his wife has been swinging. He left his job in ignominy, wandering the earth broadcasting whatever he could wherever he could, figuring that after a decade things would have blown over and been forgotten.

    He is unaware that his meltdown was the first "viral video" and the show begins when he takes a gig at a Podunk independent minor league team as the first step of "working his way back to the Show". He has to deal with being an internet celebrity on top of everything else going on in his life (scrappy, promotion-oriented team owner, oddball locals, retread players, etc.).

    It has its moments. Azaria as Brockmire calling games, especially homers, is pretty funny ("Well, that ball won't get buried in a Jewish cemetery ... it just got TATOOED!!")

    Interested in your take, check it out...
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @The Last Real Calvinist
    Really interesting comment; thanks.

    One related observation: would this shift to a more upwardly-angled swing, i.e. "trying to hit the lower middle of the ball with the upper middle of the bat", also tend to increase the number of balls fouled back? It seems these days the number of at bats that include anywhere from 5-10 balls fouled off has also increased.

    Foul balls that go out of play really, really slow down the game, because you have the tedious routine of the ump handing the catcher a new ball while the batter wanders off, then the catcher throwing the new ball the pitcher, who must then engage in a lengthy sequence of new ball inspection and massage. Once the pitcher finally gets back on the rubber, the batter needs to be retrieved from his peregrinations and reinstalled in the box, and finally there can be another pitch.

    When this happens multiple times in a single at bat, I find it excruciating to watch.

    That’s often done purposely to wear out a pitcher and drive up his pitch count. It’s also psychological warfare, the batter saying “you can’t get one past me.”

    Those long at-bats with runners on base are often a prelude to a big bust-the-game-open hit; in a big situation it’s baseball at its most riveting.

    Read More
    • Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist

    Those long at-bats with runners on base are often a prelude to a big bust-the-game-open hit; in a big situation it’s baseball at its most riveting.

     

    Yes, exactly: in a big situation, i.e. in the late innings, and in the LCS or the World Series. Not in ordinary regular-season games.

    I understand why teams pursue this pitcher attrition strategy. It works. I wish there were better ways to disincentivize it without altering something fundamental in the structure of the game.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @ben tillman

    I wrote a post in 2014 about how they could greenskeep the outfields so that the ball would roll faster on the grass so that line drives would be more likely to roll between the outfielders to the fence for a triple, the most entertaining kind of hit (other than the rare inside-the-park homer).
     
    Fans love hearing the crack of the bat and watching to see whether the ball clears the fence. However, that doesn't mean that they wouldn't be even more excited to watch a long ball that could be a home run but is not as quickly recognized as such.

    If I designed a ballpark, I'd include an inside-the-park-home-run alley in left- or right-center, or maybe dead center.

    I could see having a regular depth fence, except with a Polo Ground deep dead center at, say, 475 feet. Run it slightly downhill from 400 feet onward so the centerfielder speeds up as he attempts a Willie May-type catch.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • As long as you’re on a baseball kick of late, Mr. Sailer, when may we expect a review of “Brockmire” on IFC … ?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    What's Brockmire?
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • I wrote a post in 2014 about how they could greenskeep the outfields so that the ball would roll faster on the grass so that line drives would be more likely to roll between the outfielders to the fence for a triple, the most entertaining kind of hit (other than the rare inside-the-park homer).

    Fans love hearing the crack of the bat and watching to see whether the ball clears the fence. However, that doesn’t mean that they wouldn’t be even more excited to watch a long ball that could be a home run but is not as quickly recognized as such.

    If I designed a ballpark, I’d include an inside-the-park-home-run alley in left- or right-center, or maybe dead center.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    I could see having a regular depth fence, except with a Polo Ground deep dead center at, say, 475 feet. Run it slightly downhill from 400 feet onward so the centerfielder speeds up as he attempts a Willie May-type catch.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @FPD72
    A huge change has been the teaching of swing angle, which is not the same as but is correlated to launch angle. Back in my day (1950s and 60s), the emphasis was on a level swing. Later, some hitting instructors even taught a slightly downward swing.

    Today, most instructors teach having the swing through the hitting zone of about +20 degrees from horizontal because the average pitch is coming into the hitting zone at about -20 degrees. Having the bat on about the same plane as the ball reduces the importance of perfect timing. When combined with trying to hit the lower middle of the ball with the upper middle of the bat, the effect is what we're seeing today.

    There is a third variable that I haven't seen mentioned but that should be familiar to a golfer such as you: rotation or spin. Most home runs have backspin, which increases distance. Hitting the lower middle of the ball with the upper middle of the bat produces this backspin while also producing an optimal launch angle. Combine angle and spin with bat/ball speed, and you have today's revolution in hitting.

    Really interesting comment; thanks.

    One related observation: would this shift to a more upwardly-angled swing, i.e. “trying to hit the lower middle of the ball with the upper middle of the bat”, also tend to increase the number of balls fouled back? It seems these days the number of at bats that include anywhere from 5-10 balls fouled off has also increased.

    Foul balls that go out of play really, really slow down the game, because you have the tedious routine of the ump handing the catcher a new ball while the batter wanders off, then the catcher throwing the new ball the pitcher, who must then engage in a lengthy sequence of new ball inspection and massage. Once the pitcher finally gets back on the rubber, the batter needs to be retrieved from his peregrinations and reinstalled in the box, and finally there can be another pitch.

    When this happens multiple times in a single at bat, I find it excruciating to watch.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Chris
    That's often done purposely to wear out a pitcher and drive up his pitch count. It's also psychological warfare, the batter saying "you can't get one past me."

    Those long at-bats with runners on base are often a prelude to a big bust-the-game-open hit; in a big situation it's baseball at its most riveting.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • “The most radical change would be to dig up the outfield and resod them, sloping the outfields downward away from home plate, kind of like at the Lord’s Cricket Club in London.”

    I’ll go one better than that. Pave the outfield, make the outfielders play barefoot and let the fans throw beer bottles on the outfield.

    Readers please advise if you want to hear my proposal for a new NASCAR event.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Njguy73
    And when the Giants moved to San Francisco,

    "Willie Mays, who would play most of his career there, tested the wind and measured the prodigious distances down the power alleys—then 397 feet, now only 365 and 375—and muttered, 'Somebody's gonna get some salary cuts around here.' It wouldn't be Willie, though. He learned to go with the wind and became Candlestick's greatest hitter. It is often said that if he and Hank Aaron could have exchanged ballparks, there would be a different alltime home run king."

    https://www.si.com/vault/1986/09/01/113879/gone-with-the-wind-the-giants-want-out-of-blustery-candlestick-park-and-one-of-these-days-they-just-might-get-their-wish

    Aaron got a boost in 1966 when the Braves left pitcher-friendly Milwaukee County Stadium and moved to the Launching Pad in Atlanta (elevation 1,050 ft above sea level.)

    I think if Willie Mays hadn’t missed most of his second and third seasons to the military, he would have broken Babe Ruth’s 714 homer mark in late 1973, his last season, then Aaron would have broken Mays’ record the next year.

    Mays finished 54 short of Ruth, but he missed a 7/8ths of his age 21 and 22 seasons. He hit 20 homers at age 20 and 41 at age 23 and 51 at age 24, so I think without the military service he would have finished around 715 or 720. Aaron finished in 1976 with 755.

    Mays was still quite good through age 41 in 1972 (.400 On Base Average), his first season with the Mets, although his second (and last) season was poor.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @whorefinder

    Although it occurred before my time, the ancient “hitting them where they ain’t” style of baseball sounds like it would be greatly more fun to watch. Batters would choke up on the bat, take compact swings, rarely strike out. The game would move along much faster, with a lot more action, and far fewer long counts ending in an anticlimactic whiff.
     
    People forget baseball was a huge national phenomenon before Babe Ruth--when Ty Cobb and Cy Young were the stars ("Take Me Out to the Ball Game"---about a girl who's a baseball groupie---was penned in 1908, the deadball era).. But Ruth came in right as radio became a middle-class household item, and it rocketed him to stardom.

    The deadball era was famously vicious. Ty Cobb gets all the grief, but the slashing, stealing, bunting style of the deadball era created or drew men who were hard-charging, cutthroat kind of guys.

    The meanest era in baseball was the 1890s National League when baseball was dominated by the Irish. The American League was formed in 1901 in part to provide a more genteel style of play for respectable family entertainment. It was a big success almost immediately and has been the ascendant league most of the time ever since.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @jim jones
    We need more articles about cricket, no one cares about Yankee sports.

    I’m impressed that Steve has ever heard about Lord’s. I’m all for more cricket talk on iSteve.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • This site has it all:

    http://www.baseball-reference.com

    Warning: You will spend hours page-hopping.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Someone said if he had his way a home run would just count as another foul. As a fan I agree, they’re the least interesting kind of extra base hit, they have fewer variables and take defense and baserunning out of the play which is why the corporate accountants running the game today love them.

    Don’t be too quick to write off bloop hits as flukes. They’re what lineups with less power sometimes rely on and they take skill – simply making contact is a skill. They seem to work better too against pitchers who are “on” on a given night. Smart teams get those types of hits rather than swinging hard and going down in order by strikeout. The Cardinals bloop-hit Clayton Kershaw to death in the playoffs in 2013-14. It was death by a thousand flared singles.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • anon • Disclaimer says:

    The awfulness of white man’s money sports is they take forever. The fundamentally unsportsmanlike like stalling.

    And the solution isn’t a simple shot clock, but some sort of cumulative time over pitches. Don’t simply penalize the slow, incentives for speed.

    Golf has failed and this has been an observe and discussed problem for decades.

    There is a a huge monetary payoff as well. The only compelling live television is sports. But the slower the action, the less it is watched live.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @KunioKun
    I see one or two baseball games per year. I am always amazed at how often pro players look like they are swinging a golf club. When I was a kid such a swing would have been followed up with instant yelling from the coach. Also, the positioning of the 2nd basemen is so different from what I did when I was a kid. Next month I will probably get to go see the Rakuten Eagles. I can't wait.

    Tigers or Giants?

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Sideways
    Texas leaguer is still used. I'm not sure if I've ever heard "Baltimore chop" in my 33 years of watching games.

    “Baltimore chop” heard this week–of course it was a game played in Baltimore–discussed among broadcasters that included former Oriole Ken Singleton.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Buzz Mohawk
    How to Have a Hit?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xv1BoCn4-5c

    When I was in college, we made a bong out of the bowl from a corncob pipe, a Coke can, the sleeve from a Bic pen, and some Scotch tape. Necessity is the mother of invention.

    Amazingly, we didn’t need an instructional video on how to use it from a chick who’s already high…

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @MC
    I heard "Texas Leaguer" on my local MLB team's radio broadcast the other day. I've noticed folksy old terms with historical resonance like "Baltimore Chop" are more common on local broadcast than on national TV.

    Well that’s because your local broadcasters are actually interested in the game.

    National broadcasters are interested in everything but the game: how they look, in-game interviews, trivia-filled graphics, personal anecdotes regarding who they spoke to before the game or at dinner last night, crowd shots, dugout shots, and on and on…

    Buy no worry, the local broadcasters will catch on, an soon their broadcasts will be just as bad. Though, radio is hard to screw up, inasmuch as it can be done badly.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Buffalo Joe
    I watch the Yankees on TV when I can. Aaron judge is a phenom at 6'-8" and 280 pounds. Now that he has learned to be a bit more patient at the plate his average, as of yesterday, is .326, with 17 HRs and 38 RBIs. But with all that, I want to see him crush the ball. Truth is my favorite player of the pass decade is Ichiro Suzuki, a HOF lock, who could and can, turn almost anything you throw at him into a hit. He takes a pitch that is low and outside and golfs it over first to shallow right and winds up standing on second. Not to many hitters like him. Baseball on the radio is to me, better than baseball on TV.

    Baseball on the radio is to me, better than baseball on TV.

    Agree. Baseball on TV focuses on the pitcher batter duel; you rarely get to see how the offense shifts. Football is made for TV.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Travis
    MLB baseball should have encouraged the new ballparks to be larger, to make baseball more interesting instead of allowing the fields to get smaller and smaller as hitters got stronger.

    Deeper fields and higher fences is a good idea.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Njguy73

    Two things happened that more or less wiped out fly ball pitchers. One is that steroids turned a lot of routine fly balls into homers, which wrecked the careers of a lot fly ball pitchers in the late 90s.

    The other thing is that Sabermetrics revealed that getting outs as a fly ball pitcher required a fair amount of luck that isn’t replicable. A successful ground ball pitcher or strikeout pitcher is more likely to repeat their success in the future.
     
    And pitcher friendly venues like Baltimore's Memorial Stadium and the Astrodome were replaced with hitter-friendly venues like Camden Yards and Minute Maid Park.

    True. Although the Mariners and Padres went from hitter-friendly to pitcher-friendly. I wonder what the net effect was of all the new stadia. I assume a dedicated numbers nerd has figured it out somewhere.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @justwonderingaboutbaseball
    The primary intention of modern shifts is to minimize the contributions of good hitters and stymie average-ish hitters who can either only pull the ball with any authority or aren't nimble enough to inside-out the ball and go the other way with any regularity.

    Managers nowadays (probably at the behest of their front office) will take bunts and singles against the shift all day long in 90+% of the scenarios. Those two bunts by Griffey Jr. were two at bats the pitcher/catcher/manager needn't worry about him ripping a double in right center or using that awesome bat speed to drill a line drive homer over the right field wall. At the rate people strike out and with the prevalence of ground ball pitchers, odds are good that a bunt against the shift will not lead to anything like a double&up would.

    Pitchers don't even attempt to induce someone to hit into the shift by pitching inside like they used to do. I remember Griffey Jr., in shift situations, would get busted inside to try to get him to roll over on the ball and hit in weakly to second. Now, they stick to whatever game plan they have or whatever their strength is. If it ends up a seeing eye single the other way, so be it.

    But if he had hit a single, everyone would have clapped.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @riches
    Speaking of baseball and argot--or an anagram of, here's info on former Pirate/Blue Devil Dick Groat:

    https://baseballpastandpresent.com/2010/11/24/bobby-knight-calls-dick-groat-the-best-basketball-player/

    Interesting blog

    I notice under the recent comments section a discussion about the vexed question of what to do with Barry Bonds and the Chemical Company in regards to the hall of fame.

    For all the whining which is done about the actual hall, all of these guys make that mental category of Hall of Very Good (or its cousin: The Hall of the Unique and Unusual) where they won’t be forgotten in the slightest even if they never get actual plaques in Cooperstown. No will forget them, and likely, like Shoeless Joe, there will be an appreciable number of casual fans who will remain aware of who they are fifty, a hundred years from now.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Mark Caplan
    Although it occurred before my time, the ancient "hitting them where they ain't" style of baseball sounds like it would be greatly more fun to watch. Batters would choke up on the bat, take compact swings, rarely strike out. The game would move along much faster, with a lot more action, and far fewer long counts ending in an anticlimactic whiff.

    The solution might be this: balls hit out of the park would count as either outs or foul balls. Or how about counting them as ground-rule singles or doubles to discourage batters from always swinging for the fences.

    Although it occurred before my time, the ancient “hitting them where they ain’t” style of baseball sounds like it would be greatly more fun to watch. Batters would choke up on the bat, take compact swings, rarely strike out. The game would move along much faster, with a lot more action, and far fewer long counts ending in an anticlimactic whiff.

    People forget baseball was a huge national phenomenon before Babe Ruth–when Ty Cobb and Cy Young were the stars (“Take Me Out to the Ball Game”—about a girl who’s a baseball groupie—was penned in 1908, the deadball era).. But Ruth came in right as radio became a middle-class household item, and it rocketed him to stardom.

    The deadball era was famously vicious. Ty Cobb gets all the grief, but the slashing, stealing, bunting style of the deadball era created or drew men who were hard-charging, cutthroat kind of guys.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    The meanest era in baseball was the 1890s National League when baseball was dominated by the Irish. The American League was formed in 1901 in part to provide a more genteel style of play for respectable family entertainment. It was a big success almost immediately and has been the ascendant league most of the time ever since.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • The Washington Post has an article with some interesting graphics about how home run hitting in baseball is up, perhaps attributable to the introduction of technology in 2015 recording the launch angle and exit velocity of batted balls. In 2016 a number of hitters, such as Daniel Murphy of the Washington Nationals, switched to trying to hit more fly balls than ground balls, with good results. This year the trend toward fly balls and homers seems to be increasing.

    Or, more likely, there’s either (1) a new PED on the market that beats all the current tests in baseball; or (2) they introduced a rabbit ball, like they did in 1987.*

    The idea that players “just” started learning that if they hit more fly balls they’d hit more home runs is laughable. The fact that WaPo would argue this with a straight face shows how piss-poor reporting is these days. It’s patently obvious after Ken Caminiti & Jose Canseco blew the whistle that steroids are the likeliest reason, but still the “reporters” merely repeat the company line.

    *1987 saw a huge one-season increase in homeruns for teams across the majors, only to quickly fall back to norms the following year (1988). The owners introduced a livelier “rabbit” ball in ’87 to help homeruns increase, although it was never conclusively proven that they did so, and no one ever copped to it. They took away the rabbit ball the next year because the increase was too glaringly obvious.

    Wade Boggs hit 24 home runs in 1987, the most of his career for a season, but his highest number after that for a season was 11. Mike Greenwell slugged 19 home runs in only 412 at-bats, while the next year he needed 590 at-bats to hit 22.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @KunioKun
    I see one or two baseball games per year. I am always amazed at how often pro players look like they are swinging a golf club. When I was a kid such a swing would have been followed up with instant yelling from the coach. Also, the positioning of the 2nd basemen is so different from what I did when I was a kid. Next month I will probably get to go see the Rakuten Eagles. I can't wait.

    Uppercut swings would be laps around the field for the next practice!

    I was just talking to someone about how funny it is that many things little league coaches&up would drill into us were just not all that helpful.

    Looking back, it was just dads or guys trying their best to apply what they knew, and you learn more important lessons playing a team sport than the sport itself; but there must be a lot of talented guys out there who missed out on opportunities or were overlooked because they were given bad advice or had mediocre coaching.

    That being said, the professional amateur training circuit seems like it comes with its own set of nightmares. I’m not sure if that’s an improvement for a majority of kids, including socially.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anonymous
    If you want your young son to have a chance to play (someday) on a decent high school varsity baseball team, then as a father you have to get him out of Parks and Rec league and into Travel Baseball (Club, Fed, etc.) by no later than age 11. Most dads today know the game well at that level, and are reasonably good at teaching it.

    In 2017, there is no way that a decent varsity team is going to keep kids who don't have a long history of travel ball.

    To a lesser extent (for now), the same is true for girls volleyball. If you have a tall, athletic (white) daughter for whom you think volleyball may be a good fit, then you need to have her in travel ball by 7th grade. Parents aren't the coaches - knowledgeable volleyball coaches do the teaching, and in my experience, they know what they're doing.

    Which is another I-Steve variation: do white parents of tall girls deliberately steer their athletic daughters away from basketball and toward (expensive, exclusive, etc.) volleyball instead?

    I'd say yes.

    Today's travel volleyball tournaments are both very well-played and (almost) entirely white.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @anonymous
    In the old Polo Grounds of blessed memory, it was 258 feet down the right field line. Homers hit to right field were nicknamed "Chinese home runs". Where the word "Chinese" came from I have no idea. It was also a paltry 279 to left. Willie Mays no doubt fattened up his home run stats during the five years that he played there)

    And when the Giants moved to San Francisco,

    “Willie Mays, who would play most of his career there, tested the wind and measured the prodigious distances down the power alleys—then 397 feet, now only 365 and 375—and muttered, ‘Somebody’s gonna get some salary cuts around here.’ It wouldn’t be Willie, though. He learned to go with the wind and became Candlestick’s greatest hitter. It is often said that if he and Hank Aaron could have exchanged ballparks, there would be a different alltime home run king.”

    https://www.si.com/vault/1986/09/01/113879/gone-with-the-wind-the-giants-want-out-of-blustery-candlestick-park-and-one-of-these-days-they-just-might-get-their-wish

    Aaron got a boost in 1966 when the Braves left pitcher-friendly Milwaukee County Stadium and moved to the Launching Pad in Atlanta (elevation 1,050 ft above sea level.)

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    I think if Willie Mays hadn't missed most of his second and third seasons to the military, he would have broken Babe Ruth's 714 homer mark in late 1973, his last season, then Aaron would have broken Mays' record the next year.

    Mays finished 54 short of Ruth, but he missed a 7/8ths of his age 21 and 22 seasons. He hit 20 homers at age 20 and 41 at age 23 and 51 at age 24, so I think without the military service he would have finished around 715 or 720. Aaron finished in 1976 with 755.

    Mays was still quite good through age 41 in 1972 (.400 On Base Average), his first season with the Mets, although his second (and last) season was poor.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @The Alarmist
    They could always go back to Astroturf ... got good ball-action on that stuff, though it was miserable to play on.

    They could always go back to Astroturf … got good ball-action on that stuff, though it was miserable to play on.

    Yeah, it’s not like ballplayers need their knees later in life.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @MC
    Another reason that batters have been raising their launch angle is in response to the increasing preponderance of ground ball pitchers. When I was a kid in the 80's-90's, there were generally three kinds of pitchers: strikeout pitchers, ground ball pitchers, and fly ball pitchers. Two things happened that more or less wiped out fly ball pitchers. One is that steroids turned a lot of routine fly balls into homers, which wrecked the careers of a lot fly ball pitchers in the late 90s.

    The other thing is that Sabermetrics revealed that getting outs as a fly ball pitcher required a fair amount of luck that isn't replicable. A successful ground ball pitcher or strikeout pitcher is more likely to repeat their success in the future.

    So MLB teams started to seek out mostly strikeout and ground ball pitchers. Ground ball % became one of the most important stats for prospects. This mostly increased the number of ground ball pitchers, since pitchers only try becoming GB or FB pitchers once they've failed to become strikeout pitchers.

    Thus, ground ball percentage has been going up for years. The higher swing angle is an evolutionary response to that trend.

    And in the endless cycle of pitchers v. hitters, you're now seeing (just this year) some pitchers try to pitch up in the strike zone more, in an attempt to induce the higher angled swings into pop-ups.

    Two things happened that more or less wiped out fly ball pitchers. One is that steroids turned a lot of routine fly balls into homers, which wrecked the careers of a lot fly ball pitchers in the late 90s.

    The other thing is that Sabermetrics revealed that getting outs as a fly ball pitcher required a fair amount of luck that isn’t replicable. A successful ground ball pitcher or strikeout pitcher is more likely to repeat their success in the future.

    And pitcher friendly venues like Baltimore’s Memorial Stadium and the Astrodome were replaced with hitter-friendly venues like Camden Yards and Minute Maid Park.

    Read More
    • Replies: @MC
    True. Although the Mariners and Padres went from hitter-friendly to pitcher-friendly. I wonder what the net effect was of all the new stadia. I assume a dedicated numbers nerd has figured it out somewhere.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @josh
    I don't understand why batters don't bunt against the shift. I saw Ken Griffey Jr. do this twice in a game and the opposing team stopped shifting. One side or the other is being irrational.

    The primary intention of modern shifts is to minimize the contributions of good hitters and stymie average-ish hitters who can either only pull the ball with any authority or aren’t nimble enough to inside-out the ball and go the other way with any regularity.

    Managers nowadays (probably at the behest of their front office) will take bunts and singles against the shift all day long in 90+% of the scenarios. Those two bunts by Griffey Jr. were two at bats the pitcher/catcher/manager needn’t worry about him ripping a double in right center or using that awesome bat speed to drill a line drive homer over the right field wall. At the rate people strike out and with the prevalence of ground ball pitchers, odds are good that a bunt against the shift will not lead to anything like a double&up would.

    Pitchers don’t even attempt to induce someone to hit into the shift by pitching inside like they used to do. I remember Griffey Jr., in shift situations, would get busted inside to try to get him to roll over on the ball and hit in weakly to second. Now, they stick to whatever game plan they have or whatever their strength is. If it ends up a seeing eye single the other way, so be it.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Josh
    But if he had hit a single, everyone would have clapped.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @slumber_j

    Baseball hierarchs should be thinking about how to reward line drive hitters.
     
    Two words: "Polo Grounds."

    Bigger outfields are the real answer...in theory anyway. The problem is that people--including me--like home runs a lot. So even when teams build ballparks for fewer homers, they end up moving the fences back in after a few years.

    Good point about Lords, among other cricket venues. The ball rolls a lot, so you get tons of boundaries. So maybe you're right that the long-term answer to the line-drive problem lies in groundskeeping.

    Kansas City had hard artificial turf so a line drive hitter like George Brett could hit as many as 20 triples in a year. Grass is nicer than astroturf, but steps could be taken to make grass play faster than it does now.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @josh
    I don't understand why batters don't bunt against the shift. I saw Ken Griffey Jr. do this twice in a game and the opposing team stopped shifting. One side or the other is being irrational.

    I know it’s not entirely true but it seems that there are no good bunters in the (American) league. It’s pathetic.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • I see one or two baseball games per year. I am always amazed at how often pro players look like they are swinging a golf club. When I was a kid such a swing would have been followed up with instant yelling from the coach. Also, the positioning of the 2nd basemen is so different from what I did when I was a kid. Next month I will probably get to go see the Rakuten Eagles. I can’t wait.

    Read More
    • Replies: @justwonderingaboutbaseball
    Uppercut swings would be laps around the field for the next practice!

    I was just talking to someone about how funny it is that many things little league coaches&up would drill into us were just not all that helpful.

    Looking back, it was just dads or guys trying their best to apply what they knew, and you learn more important lessons playing a team sport than the sport itself; but there must be a lot of talented guys out there who missed out on opportunities or were overlooked because they were given bad advice or had mediocre coaching.

    That being said, the professional amateur training circuit seems like it comes with its own set of nightmares. I'm not sure if that's an improvement for a majority of kids, including socially.
    , @Chrisnonymous
    Tigers or Giants?
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • I watch the Yankees on TV when I can. Aaron judge is a phenom at 6′-8″ and 280 pounds. Now that he has learned to be a bit more patient at the plate his average, as of yesterday, is .326, with 17 HRs and 38 RBIs. But with all that, I want to see him crush the ball. Truth is my favorite player of the pass decade is Ichiro Suzuki, a HOF lock, who could and can, turn almost anything you throw at him into a hit. He takes a pitch that is low and outside and golfs it over first to shallow right and winds up standing on second. Not to many hitters like him. Baseball on the radio is to me, better than baseball on TV.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob

    Baseball on the radio is to me, better than baseball on TV.
     
    Agree. Baseball on TV focuses on the pitcher batter duel; you rarely get to see how the offense shifts. Football is made for TV.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @justwonderingaboutbaseball
    I hear Baltimore Chop very infrequently; mostly from older announcers.

    A lot of baseball argot seems to be in disuse. The reasons being a decline in sports-writing and radio broadcasts which require descriptive language and as a run off of the sabermetrics revolution (not necessarily the sabermetrician crowd itself), which discourages any terms of art with any chance of being out of its purview.

    Speaking of baseball and argot–or an anagram of, here’s info on former Pirate/Blue Devil Dick Groat:

    https://baseballpastandpresent.com/2010/11/24/bobby-knight-calls-dick-groat-the-best-basketball-player/

    Read More
    • Replies: @justwonderingaboutbaseball
    Interesting blog

    I notice under the recent comments section a discussion about the vexed question of what to do with Barry Bonds and the Chemical Company in regards to the hall of fame.

    For all the whining which is done about the actual hall, all of these guys make that mental category of Hall of Very Good (or its cousin: The Hall of the Unique and Unusual) where they won't be forgotten in the slightest even if they never get actual plaques in Cooperstown. No will forget them, and likely, like Shoeless Joe, there will be an appreciable number of casual fans who will remain aware of who they are fifty, a hundred years from now.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Anonymous

    (Does anybody still use terms like Texas Leaguer and Baltimore Chops? I have all this Branch Rickey era baseball vocabulary, like Merkle’s Boner, from the used baseball books my mom would bring home from the thrift shop where she worked in 1967, but I can’t tell whether anybody knows those terms anymore.)
     
    Cincinnati Bowtie and Cleveland Steamer are still used.

    Texas Leaguer? It’s used in Chicago!

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • MLB baseball should have encouraged the new ballparks to be larger, to make baseball more interesting instead of allowing the fields to get smaller and smaller as hitters got stronger.

    Read More
    • Replies: @prole
    Deeper fields and higher fences is a good idea.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Although it occurred before my time, the ancient “hitting them where they ain’t” style of baseball sounds like it would be greatly more fun to watch. Batters would choke up on the bat, take compact swings, rarely strike out. The game would move along much faster, with a lot more action, and far fewer long counts ending in an anticlimactic whiff.

    The solution might be this: balls hit out of the park would count as either outs or foul balls. Or how about counting them as ground-rule singles or doubles to discourage batters from always swinging for the fences.

    Read More
    • Replies: @whorefinder

    Although it occurred before my time, the ancient “hitting them where they ain’t” style of baseball sounds like it would be greatly more fun to watch. Batters would choke up on the bat, take compact swings, rarely strike out. The game would move along much faster, with a lot more action, and far fewer long counts ending in an anticlimactic whiff.
     
    People forget baseball was a huge national phenomenon before Babe Ruth--when Ty Cobb and Cy Young were the stars ("Take Me Out to the Ball Game"---about a girl who's a baseball groupie---was penned in 1908, the deadball era).. But Ruth came in right as radio became a middle-class household item, and it rocketed him to stardom.

    The deadball era was famously vicious. Ty Cobb gets all the grief, but the slashing, stealing, bunting style of the deadball era created or drew men who were hard-charging, cutthroat kind of guys.

    , @Danindc
    Sorry Bryce but that 500 foot home run you just hit is an out
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • I just had the pleasure of watching the Astros crush the Twins with an average of 13+ runs per game and plentiful home runs, to an extent confirming the thesis.

    Commentary these days seems to be less about the Baltimore Chop and more about BABIP my wOBA.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • The idea you have for angling the outfield grass towards the wall is a double edged sword , Steve . Doubles might turn into long singles if the ball is getting out there faster .

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • “[S]loping the outfields downward away from home plate…”

    Errrr, no, I think they’re still recovering from the trauma-and-a-half of lowering the mound and the verdammt Designated Hitter rule …

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @O'Really
    I don't know that batters are just trying to smash it over the shift. Smart batters can just hit inside out or even just bunt a dribbler the other way. Look at Aaron Judge and Gary Sanchez. They can *crush* homers, but they can also use the whole field. By contrast, the Yankees dumped Brian McCann and ate half his salary because he couldn't learn how to go the other way. Like any technological innovation in battle, the shift is going to diminish in efficacy as offenses develop countermeasures.

    I don’t understand why batters don’t bunt against the shift. I saw Ken Griffey Jr. do this twice in a game and the opposing team stopped shifting. One side or the other is being irrational.

    Read More
    • Agree: TomSchmidt
    • Replies: @EriK
    I know it's not entirely true but it seems that there are no good bunters in the (American) league. It's pathetic.
    , @justwonderingaboutbaseball
    The primary intention of modern shifts is to minimize the contributions of good hitters and stymie average-ish hitters who can either only pull the ball with any authority or aren't nimble enough to inside-out the ball and go the other way with any regularity.

    Managers nowadays (probably at the behest of their front office) will take bunts and singles against the shift all day long in 90+% of the scenarios. Those two bunts by Griffey Jr. were two at bats the pitcher/catcher/manager needn't worry about him ripping a double in right center or using that awesome bat speed to drill a line drive homer over the right field wall. At the rate people strike out and with the prevalence of ground ball pitchers, odds are good that a bunt against the shift will not lead to anything like a double&up would.

    Pitchers don't even attempt to induce someone to hit into the shift by pitching inside like they used to do. I remember Griffey Jr., in shift situations, would get busted inside to try to get him to roll over on the ball and hit in weakly to second. Now, they stick to whatever game plan they have or whatever their strength is. If it ends up a seeing eye single the other way, so be it.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Would deadening the ball help? If even huge guys can’t hit homers reliably, maybe we would see more contact hitting. Might even result in less pressure to juice.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Sideways
    Texas leaguer is still used. I'm not sure if I've ever heard "Baltimore chop" in my 33 years of watching games.

    In the old Polo Grounds of blessed memory, it was 258 feet down the right field line. Homers hit to right field were nicknamed “Chinese home runs”. Where the word “Chinese” came from I have no idea. It was also a paltry 279 to left. Willie Mays no doubt fattened up his home run stats during the five years that he played there)

    Read More
    • Replies: @Njguy73
    And when the Giants moved to San Francisco,

    "Willie Mays, who would play most of his career there, tested the wind and measured the prodigious distances down the power alleys—then 397 feet, now only 365 and 375—and muttered, 'Somebody's gonna get some salary cuts around here.' It wouldn't be Willie, though. He learned to go with the wind and became Candlestick's greatest hitter. It is often said that if he and Hank Aaron could have exchanged ballparks, there would be a different alltime home run king."

    https://www.si.com/vault/1986/09/01/113879/gone-with-the-wind-the-giants-want-out-of-blustery-candlestick-park-and-one-of-these-days-they-just-might-get-their-wish

    Aaron got a boost in 1966 when the Braves left pitcher-friendly Milwaukee County Stadium and moved to the Launching Pad in Atlanta (elevation 1,050 ft above sea level.)
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Does anybody still use terms like Texas Leaguer and Baltimore Chops? I have all this Branch Rickey era baseball vocabulary, like Merkle’s Boner, from the used baseball books my mom would bring home from the thrift shop where she worked in 1967

    I know those terms because my Mom got me a subscription to Baseball Digest in the early ’70s and renewed it for several years. Today’s her 80th birthday!

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • It seems all big leaguers can drive the ball over the fence. Bat speed makes up for some of the physical disparities.

    Only Steve could come up with cutting the grass differently to improve game. Gotta like that.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Similar data is a significant factor driving golf improvement among the top players. While everybody is focused on improvements in ball and club technology, Trackman has played a bigger role over the past few years. It is now well understood that certain truisms, like “hitting down on the ball to make it go up” and “trapping the ball” to make it draw are false (there may be some validity to the feel of those techniques producing the results, though).

    It used to be all about swing speed, but now players now optimize spin (low) and launch angle (high), largely through hitting up on the ball. That’s how guys like Justin Thomas can among the leaders in driving distance, despite weighing 145 pounds. When guys like Dustin Johnson optimize, this happens:

    4️⃣1️⃣3️⃣ yards. There are tee shots. And then there are Dustin Johnson tee shots. pic.twitter.com/Td12FbXpnl— PGA TOUR (@PGATOUR) June 1, 2017

    It’s amazing how much money people have wasted on golf lessons over the years, with nothing to show for it.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Steve, someone has started putting up a list of your articles:

    https://infogalactic.com/info/List_of_Steve_Sailer%27s_articles_on_the_Web

    The number of articles is daunting when you consider your output here at the Unz Review. Just looking at the author archives at the various sites you have articles posted obscures the scale of your output!

    What drives you to be so prolific?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Danindc
    If Steve keeps up his current pace for another 15 years it's going to be Edison, Da Vinci and Sailer.

    I'm f'n serious.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Tony Gwynn. How can you leave Tony Gwynn off of that list? Right in your back yard too.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • A huge change has been the teaching of swing angle, which is not the same as but is correlated to launch angle. Back in my day (1950s and 60s), the emphasis was on a level swing. Later, some hitting instructors even taught a slightly downward swing.

    Today, most instructors teach having the swing through the hitting zone of about +20 degrees from horizontal because the average pitch is coming into the hitting zone at about -20 degrees. Having the bat on about the same plane as the ball reduces the importance of perfect timing. When combined with trying to hit the lower middle of the ball with the upper middle of the bat, the effect is what we’re seeing today.

    There is a third variable that I haven’t seen mentioned but that should be familiar to a golfer such as you: rotation or spin. Most home runs have backspin, which increases distance. Hitting the lower middle of the ball with the upper middle of the bat produces this backspin while also producing an optimal launch angle. Combine angle and spin with bat/ball speed, and you have today’s revolution in hitting.

    Read More
    • Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist
    Really interesting comment; thanks.

    One related observation: would this shift to a more upwardly-angled swing, i.e. "trying to hit the lower middle of the ball with the upper middle of the bat", also tend to increase the number of balls fouled back? It seems these days the number of at bats that include anywhere from 5-10 balls fouled off has also increased.

    Foul balls that go out of play really, really slow down the game, because you have the tedious routine of the ump handing the catcher a new ball while the batter wanders off, then the catcher throwing the new ball the pitcher, who must then engage in a lengthy sequence of new ball inspection and massage. Once the pitcher finally gets back on the rubber, the batter needs to be retrieved from his peregrinations and reinstalled in the box, and finally there can be another pitch.

    When this happens multiple times in a single at bat, I find it excruciating to watch.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @MC
    Another reason that batters have been raising their launch angle is in response to the increasing preponderance of ground ball pitchers. When I was a kid in the 80's-90's, there were generally three kinds of pitchers: strikeout pitchers, ground ball pitchers, and fly ball pitchers. Two things happened that more or less wiped out fly ball pitchers. One is that steroids turned a lot of routine fly balls into homers, which wrecked the careers of a lot fly ball pitchers in the late 90s.

    The other thing is that Sabermetrics revealed that getting outs as a fly ball pitcher required a fair amount of luck that isn't replicable. A successful ground ball pitcher or strikeout pitcher is more likely to repeat their success in the future.

    So MLB teams started to seek out mostly strikeout and ground ball pitchers. Ground ball % became one of the most important stats for prospects. This mostly increased the number of ground ball pitchers, since pitchers only try becoming GB or FB pitchers once they've failed to become strikeout pitchers.

    Thus, ground ball percentage has been going up for years. The higher swing angle is an evolutionary response to that trend.

    And in the endless cycle of pitchers v. hitters, you're now seeing (just this year) some pitchers try to pitch up in the strike zone more, in an attempt to induce the higher angled swings into pop-ups.

    The Dodgers just swept the Cubs by making them hit fly balls. This is a good strategy at Chavez Ravine.

    Trackman launch monitors have really taken over elite golf. The flight of the ball for all these gorillas is similar. The low spin balls just hang in the air forever. Maybe requiring a higher spin ball would keep the bomb and gougers from dominating. The US Open at Erin Hills can stretch their course to 8000 yards. I have turned down two invitations to play because I do not want to walk that much.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Danindc
    Humble brag of the century Hodar
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Baseball hierarchs should be thinking about how to reward line drive hitters.

    Two words: “Polo Grounds.”

    Bigger outfields are the real answer…in theory anyway. The problem is that people–including me–like home runs a lot. So even when teams build ballparks for fewer homers, they end up moving the fences back in after a few years.

    Good point about Lords, among other cricket venues. The ball rolls a lot, so you get tons of boundaries. So maybe you’re right that the long-term answer to the line-drive problem lies in groundskeeping.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Kansas City had hard artificial turf so a line drive hitter like George Brett could hit as many as 20 triples in a year. Grass is nicer than astroturf, but steps could be taken to make grass play faster than it does now.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • They could always go back to Astroturf … got good ball-action on that stuff, though it was miserable to play on.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Njguy73

    They could always go back to Astroturf … got good ball-action on that stuff, though it was miserable to play on.
     
    Yeah, it's not like ballplayers need their knees later in life.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    I don’t know jack about baseball, but I learned most of my electronics and aircraft tech (before I went to school for it) from books published 10 to 30 years before my birth. So I know a lot of old terms in those fields, and use them to the consternation of others.

    I can tell you about the relative merits of linen vs. cotton fabric for aircraft, nitrate vs. butyrate dope, pegger-necking coolant or oil pipes, and the intricacies of Scott vs. Maule tailwheels. And swinging vs. smoothing chokes, how to tell what a tube does from its number, the use of the grid dip oscillator, and so forth.

    Lots of good that does me.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • How to have a hit?

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Another possible way to increase the number of inside-the-park hits that grab fans’ interest — e.g. gappers that go for doubles and triples — is simply to play around a bit more strategically with the size of the field itself.

    If I recall correctly, one reason the Colorado Rockies’ home park, Coors Field, is so conducive to offense is that it’s got lots and lots of space in the outfield because the fences are set unusually far back in order to offset the effects of the thin air, i.e. thin air makes it too easy to hit home runs. This extra area in the outfield opens up additional room for extra-base hits to drop in and roll.

    Making parks at lower altitudes bigger would also make it harder to hit home runs, and hence reshape the game quite a bit, perhaps pushing it back away from the ‘three true outcomes’ tyranny it seems stuck in at the moment.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • We need more articles about cricket, no one cares about Yankee sports.

    Read More
    • Agree: MBlanc46
    • Replies: @MBlanc46
    I'm impressed that Steve has ever heard about Lord's. I'm all for more cricket talk on iSteve.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • I hear Baltimore Chop very infrequently; mostly from older announcers.

    A lot of baseball argot seems to be in disuse. The reasons being a decline in sports-writing and radio broadcasts which require descriptive language and as a run off of the sabermetrics revolution (not necessarily the sabermetrician crowd itself), which discourages any terms of art with any chance of being out of its purview.

    Read More
    • Replies: @riches
    Speaking of baseball and argot--or an anagram of, here's info on former Pirate/Blue Devil Dick Groat:

    https://baseballpastandpresent.com/2010/11/24/bobby-knight-calls-dick-groat-the-best-basketball-player/
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Marty
    Steve, ever wonder why Lou Piniella couldn't run? In his new autobiography, he says it's because he broke his ankle on the way down from a hike to Mt. Baldy in 1962. His team went to Ontario for the Pony league World Series.

    You can run down the face of Mt. Baldy: it’s ping-pong ball sized big pebbles that you slide a couple of feet in with each stride.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Texas leaguer is still used. I’m not sure if I’ve ever heard “Baltimore chop” in my 33 years of watching games.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anonymous
    In the old Polo Grounds of blessed memory, it was 258 feet down the right field line. Homers hit to right field were nicknamed "Chinese home runs". Where the word "Chinese" came from I have no idea. It was also a paltry 279 to left. Willie Mays no doubt fattened up his home run stats during the five years that he played there)
    , @Forbes
    "Baltimore chop" heard this week--of course it was a game played in Baltimore--discussed among broadcasters that included former Oriole Ken Singleton.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Anon • Disclaimer says:

    This is p much the only, 2 or 3 maybe, time out of a million posts where you mention ue mom unlike the bazillion when you mention your dad. If I were steve sailer I’m sure I would go into multi paragraph analysis about what this means exactly about your childhood and life and personality.

    [MORE]

    Anyway I know what the terms Baltimore Chop and Texas leauger mean because I used to read bill james and other books from or set in the 70s and 80s

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Anon • Disclaimer says:

    This is p much the only, 2 or 3 maybe, time out of a million posts where you mention ue mom unlike the bazillion when you mention your dad. If I were steve sailer I’m sure I would go into multi paragraph analysis about what this means exactly about your childhood and life and personality.

    Anyway I know what the terms Baltimore Chop and Texas leauger mean because I used to read bill james and other books from or set in the 70s and 80s

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • How to Have a Hit?

    Read More
    • LOL: Buffalo Joe
    • Replies: @Forbes
    When I was in college, we made a bong out of the bowl from a corncob pipe, a Coke can, the sleeve from a Bic pen, and some Scotch tape. Necessity is the mother of invention.

    Amazingly, we didn't need an instructional video on how to use it from a chick who's already high...
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • It’s all about the Three True Outcomes:

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/bullpen/Three_True_Outcomes

    Strikeouts have increased at a phenomenal rate, too.

    Here’s a guy with 13 home runs who was hitting .167 last time I checked:

    http://www.sportingnews.com/mlb/news/ryan-schimpf-stats-san-diego-padres-fantasy-bryce-harper-aaron-judge-comparisons/1e7nsvahv6e0i1w8fmcxyij4qe

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • MC says:

    Another reason that batters have been raising their launch angle is in response to the increasing preponderance of ground ball pitchers. When I was a kid in the 80′s-90′s, there were generally three kinds of pitchers: strikeout pitchers, ground ball pitchers, and fly ball pitchers. Two things happened that more or less wiped out fly ball pitchers. One is that steroids turned a lot of routine fly balls into homers, which wrecked the careers of a lot fly ball pitchers in the late 90s.

    The other thing is that Sabermetrics revealed that getting outs as a fly ball pitcher required a fair amount of luck that isn’t replicable. A successful ground ball pitcher or strikeout pitcher is more likely to repeat their success in the future.

    So MLB teams started to seek out mostly strikeout and ground ball pitchers. Ground ball % became one of the most important stats for prospects. This mostly increased the number of ground ball pitchers, since pitchers only try becoming GB or FB pitchers once they’ve failed to become strikeout pitchers.

    Thus, ground ball percentage has been going up for years. The higher swing angle is an evolutionary response to that trend.

    And in the endless cycle of pitchers v. hitters, you’re now seeing (just this year) some pitchers try to pitch up in the strike zone more, in an attempt to induce the higher angled swings into pop-ups.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Hodag
    The Dodgers just swept the Cubs by making them hit fly balls. This is a good strategy at Chavez Ravine.

    Trackman launch monitors have really taken over elite golf. The flight of the ball for all these gorillas is similar. The low spin balls just hang in the air forever. Maybe requiring a higher spin ball would keep the bomb and gougers from dominating. The US Open at Erin Hills can stretch their course to 8000 yards. I have turned down two invitations to play because I do not want to walk that much.
    , @Njguy73

    Two things happened that more or less wiped out fly ball pitchers. One is that steroids turned a lot of routine fly balls into homers, which wrecked the careers of a lot fly ball pitchers in the late 90s.

    The other thing is that Sabermetrics revealed that getting outs as a fly ball pitcher required a fair amount of luck that isn’t replicable. A successful ground ball pitcher or strikeout pitcher is more likely to repeat their success in the future.
     
    And pitcher friendly venues like Baltimore's Memorial Stadium and the Astrodome were replaced with hitter-friendly venues like Camden Yards and Minute Maid Park.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • I don’t know that batters are just trying to smash it over the shift. Smart batters can just hit inside out or even just bunt a dribbler the other way. Look at Aaron Judge and Gary Sanchez. They can *crush* homers, but they can also use the whole field. By contrast, the Yankees dumped Brian McCann and ate half his salary because he couldn’t learn how to go the other way. Like any technological innovation in battle, the shift is going to diminish in efficacy as offenses develop countermeasures.

    Read More
    • Agree: slumber_j
    • Replies: @josh
    I don't understand why batters don't bunt against the shift. I saw Ken Griffey Jr. do this twice in a game and the opposing team stopped shifting. One side or the other is being irrational.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • I heard “Texas Leaguer” on my local MLB team’s radio broadcast the other day. I’ve noticed folksy old terms with historical resonance like “Baltimore Chop” are more common on local broadcast than on national TV.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Forbes
    Well that's because your local broadcasters are actually interested in the game.

    National broadcasters are interested in everything but the game: how they look, in-game interviews, trivia-filled graphics, personal anecdotes regarding who they spoke to before the game or at dinner last night, crowd shots, dugout shots, and on and on...

    Buy no worry, the local broadcasters will catch on, an soon their broadcasts will be just as bad. Though, radio is hard to screw up, inasmuch as it can be done badly.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Steve, ever wonder why Lou Piniella couldn’t run? In his new autobiography, he says it’s because he broke his ankle on the way down from a hike to Mt. Baldy in 1962. His team went to Ontario for the Pony league World Series.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    You can run down the face of Mt. Baldy: it's ping-pong ball sized big pebbles that you slide a couple of feet in with each stride.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    (Does anybody still use terms like Texas Leaguer and Baltimore Chops? I have all this Branch Rickey era baseball vocabulary, like Merkle’s Boner, from the used baseball books my mom would bring home from the thrift shop where she worked in 1967, but I can’t tell whether anybody knows those terms anymore.)

    Cincinnati Bowtie and Cleveland Steamer are still used.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Father O'Hara
    Texas Leaguer? It's used in Chicago!
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • From The Undefeated, formerly Jason Whitlock's long-awaited website, on a topic I've often discussed: Mission Impossible: African-Americans & analytics Why blacks are not feeling the sports metrics movement BY MICHAEL WILBON @REALMIKEWILBON May 24, 2016 The mission was to find black folks who spend anytime talking about advanced analytics, whose conversations are framed by —...
  • @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    I understand that Morgan was excellent as a 2B. 2B wasn't Rose's natural position, though. He was very good to excellent at 2B, SS, 3B (which eventually became more or less his established position) as well as OF-1B. He was just an all around excellent defensive whiz at nearly every position, except of course for P and C. It also goes to show that Pete possessed a much stronger arm and better all around infield range than Morgan for him to shifted over to 3B.

    The other arguments for Morgan, honestly, are excuses. Carlton's 27-10, 310K's, 1.92E.RA came for dead last PHIL (59-102). Obviously for whatever the reason, Carlton wasn't affected on the days he started by the Phillies's horrible season or rather somehow they managed to rise to the occasion of helping their franchise pitcher. In other words, a lack of support generally doesn't hinder the top greatest players; individually their stats don't tend to suffer. Harmon Killebrew didn't play for great teams during a portion of his career and yet his offensive totals are quite excellent. It's also a matter of subjective opinion that Morgan's peek was better than Rose's. Pete Rose has the most hits in all of MLB history, including 10 seasons of over 200 plus hits in a season. As well as a 44 game hitting streak. I mean, Rose won 3 batting titles and also an MVP, he was rookie of the year, played in more WS's, I'm sorry I'm not seeing a down period in Pete's career. By most objective measures, had it not been for his gambling problems, I think its fair to state that Pete Rose would be in the HOF first ballot without doubt and widely regarded as among the best singles hitters of all time. Only one of two MLB players to have over 4,000 hits? And he is also in the top five (or was) in Runs Scored. I can't put Morgan over Rose in total greatness. Its a shame that one was banned not only from MLB but from the HOF.

    If Morgan was better at his peak, then we should expect to see it reflected in his total career numbers. The thing is, Pete Rose's peak was more consistent and durable over a 24yr career. There was one time he had like 7-9 consecutive seasons where he played in 160plus games, he could almost have challenged Lou Gehrig's total game streak (the guy didn't take many days off).
    He simply was one of the greatest pure singles hitters in MLB history. Considering that he started out in Crosley field and then played without much difficulty in artificial turf Riverfront Stadium, Veterans Stadium etc. didn't seem to hinder him in the least. Yes, he was blessed not to have any major injury during his career that significantly sidelined him, but that's life. Who said that life was fair?

    By any objective measure, Pete Rose ranks as one of MLB's greatest, as in top .00001% to ever play the game. Really isn't debatable, and I think everyone here knows that. Let's not rewrite history just because the man had some personal problems and he isn't likely to make Cooperstown (which is truly a shame). Certain names that stand out in the 60's and 70's, and Pete Rose is easily in the top ten. It also didn't matter which team Rose played for (though obviously remembered with CIN), he was still playing at a fairly consistent dominant level up to the next to last full season (ca.1983 or 84, when he was in his early forties). Morgan, as you mentioned, didn't become truly the player he's remembered until around 1972, when he went to the Reds. Also, when Joe Morgan left CIN, his numbers started to decline so that begs the question perhaps he benefitted more in CIN than did Pete Rose, who played just as well in PHIL and did quite well in MON. He went back to CIN so he could break Ty Cobb's all time hits record with his hometown team.

    Reminds me, as this is the 75th anniversary of DiMaggio's still record MLB 56 hitting streak and I believe that this week marks the anniversary of the beginning of the hitting streak. Ironically Pete Rose had a 44 game hitting streak. In Richard Lally's book "Bombers" Joe Morgan believed that only Pete Rose was capable of breaking DiMaggio's streak, that he didn't meant in his opinion that no one ever will.

    But fair is fair: Everyone knows that Pete Rose ranks among the all time greatest MLB players bar none in singles hits, runs scored, also ranks at the top in Games Played, At Bats. As just a pure consistent singles hitter, he's the greatest ever. Just because he made a mess of personal problems let's not rewrite the history books.

    If Ichiro Suzuki started his career in the US, I would consider changing my opinion because Ichiro could easily have had a chance to have 4,500 or more career hits in MLB had he began his career in the US.

    Ichiro currently has 4243 hits between NPB and MLB, so he is only 13 short of Rose.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Steve Sailer
    Heck, the Kansas City ballpark's turf was so hard and fast back then that in the 1980 ALCS 35-year-old Graig Nettles, coming off a couple of months on the disabled list in a season in which he hit no triples and did not attempt to steal a base, hit an inside-the-park home run.

    I much prefer grass to artificial turf, but I think baseball games would be more fun if they kept the grass "firm and fast" like the greenskeepers do for the US Open golf tournament. More triples!

    There’s nothing more exciting than an attempt at an inside-the-park home run. Our local park has a green hill behind straightaway center field to help hitters see the ball. I’d like to see the Rangers remove the hill and push the fence back 30 or 40 feet.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    343 innings? 30 complete games? Oh my goodness!! Didn't Carlton know that Bill James doesn't approve of such heresies? Didn't he realize that his arm would fall off, literally, within 3-4 yrs and that he'd never be able to ever use it again? Who did he think he was, the Pope? Can just walk on water, heal the blind and poof, toss 30 complete games in a single season. Most MLB pitchers won't throw that many complete games for their entire career and this what's his name does it in a single season. Probably pitched batting practice too (as many, many MLB pitchers tended to do for decades to keep their arms loose and warmed up), and he probably threw dozens of pitches on his days off in the bullpen (also something not uncommon for most MLB pitchers to do).

    Quick, "obviously" Carlton was taking PEDs because it's just not possible for any pitcher to throw for more than 220 innings. I'll bet Carlton didn't even have a 100 pitch per game pitch count. This just baffles the mind. How DID Carlton manage to do this, unless he was taking PEDS? There simply is no other explanation.

    343 innings, goodness. That simply isn't heard of in this day and age. Better not let Nate Silver and Bill James see those stats or they simply wouldn't like it and proceed to explain why it simply isn't possible for MLB pitchers to throw for more than 220 innings in a season and "maybe" possibly, throw for about 2 complete games, every third yr so that their arms don't fall off or wear out cause its been so overused.

    Seriously, Carlton 1972 season as well as his career IS an example of what a top MLB HOFer within the .00001% tends to have…exceptional evidence for the claims being made and his '72 season ranks as one of the all time greats.

    And his arm didn't fall off. Fancy that.

    Almost met him at the HOF one yr (one of the few times he's come) I should've asked him "How'd you do it and not have your arm fall off?" I think I'll ask him if he ever attends an induction of which I'm interested in seeing.

    343 innings? 30 complete games? Oh my goodness!! Didn’t Carlton know that Bill James doesn’t approve of such heresies? Didn’t he realize that his arm would fall off, literally, within 3-4 yrs and that he’d never be able to ever use it again? Who did he think he was, the Pope? Can just walk on water, heal the blind and poof, toss 30 complete games in a single season.

    Ha ha. I’m no sure what changed between now and then, but I do know (and I guess you do, too) that he won Cy Young awards five, eight, and 10 years later.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Desiderius

    But you’ve just made my point.
     
    First Rule of Holes, Yoj.

    That makes no sense, Dezey. But I do appreciate that you made my point.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Misinterpreting what I stated. Frankie Crosetti wasn't the straw that stirred the NY drink. Come on. Frankie, Red Rolfe, Babe Dalgren were all starters for NY but I'm not referring to them anymore than I'm talking about Heinrich or Keller. I mean, Crosetti didn't lead the AL in any major offensive category.

    The straws that stirred the McCarthy WSs (1936-42) were: DiMaggio; Dickey; Gehrig (for 36-38); HOF P Gomez; and Ruffing. During this period, DiMaggio won a batting title, 2 MVPs, and this is the 75th anniversary of his 56 game hitting streak. Gehrig won the MVP in '36. Dickey hit .362 in '37 and set the record for catching 13 consecutive seasons in 100+ games per season (which was later tied by Johnny Bench in 1980).

    Although I don't understand why Rizzuto is in the HOF. Actually I do. The Veterans Committee pushed for him (Berra was at one time on the Committee) this is one of the reasons some yrs ago the HOF started to chastise the Veterans Committee because they were using their votes to help induct their former teammates, their buddies into the HOF. I mean, Bobby Doerr? Come on. Joe Gordon I also don't quite understand, though he did have similar types of numbers comparable to Morgan's and he also won an MVP in '42.

    I have never said that Aaron wasn't in the top .0001% of MLB players. He clearly is, everyone knows it, his peers knew it, etc. But you've just made my point. Aaron is an obvious choice because he is in the top .0001% of greatest to ever play in MLB and his stats bear it out both careerwise and in single seasons when he lead the NL in major offensive categories. Like DUH.
    You must work on reading comprehension a bit more. What I've been saying is that the greatest players will tend to dominate in major offensive categories, I never said that they have to dominate in all of them. But at least in some of the MAJOR categories. Let's take Babe Ruth for an example. At the time of his retirement, he was number one in HR; RBI; and like in the top ten in BA (still is by the way). Morgan isn't in the top ten in BA; or in: HR; RBI; H (he doesn't have 3,000, which would be fine IF he was in the top 5-10 in HR; RBI; BA; something to offset that). He's not in the top 5-10 in any of the traditional major offensive categories.

    But, it also shows you didn't carefully listen to what I said. Pete Rose is the all time MLB leader in H and is also in top five in Runs Scored, Games Played, At Bats. He was a fairly dominant consistent hits leader. He should be in the HOF, except for a personal mistake. I wonder if in the future some PC oriented commissioner won't overrule that and just allow him to apply for reinstatement. Wishful thinking, perhaps but you never know.

    I originally stated that its very possible that aside from Bench, Pete Rose was designated to make the HOF as those were the two CIN players that fueled the engine of the Big Red Machine. They were like a tandem. Morgan didn't play the majority of his career at CIN and only put up bigger numbers when he got there (which then proceeded to drop off once he left). But as Rose is obviously barred from Cooperstown, well, who was the other CIN player of the 70's that most remember? Interesting as someone pointed out that Tony Perez was inducted in 2000, about fifteen yrs after he retired so clearly there was some legitimate doubt as to his career being HOF worthy. Stats don't improve with age; they stay the same and if a player wasn't considered quite all that when he retired it really doesn't make much sense to "suddenly discover" him decades post-retirement and induct him into the HOF. It tends to call into question the concept of HOFs. Either its for the top .0001% players to ever have played the sport or its the hall of very good, borderlines etc.

    But you’ve just made my point.

    First Rule of Holes, Yoj.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    That makes no sense, Dezey. But I do appreciate that you made my point.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @MC
    It bears mentioning that WAR is adjusted by position, so a second baseman who hits 40 homers is worth more than a first baseman who hits 40 because almost anyone in MLB can play 1st, but not 2nd.

    Of course, 2B is a much easier position to play than either SS or 3B since 2B’s don’t tend to have the arm strength as SS and 3B and they don’t cover as wide a range as SS much less 3B. In other words, WAR is adjusted in a fairly arbitrary/subjective kind of way “Everyone knows” that such and such can hit so many HRs so its “worth more” if another position player does it. Whatever. Whichever position player consistently hits the HRs over a career and if more than 500, he should be inducted into the HOF. It doesn’t really need to be more complicated than that. Funny how most of these newly discovered stats are by people who never actually played in MLB or were managers, coaches, (no on field experience, which tends to help just as relevant work experience helps when applying for a job).

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @MC
    Oh man, where to start.

    You say that WAR is a "misleading" stat, then you claim that a better measure of player value is World Series championships. So I guess Frankie Crosetti, with 8 WS wins, 98 home runs, a .245 batting average, and 113 stolen bases, is some kind of super star:

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/crosefr01.shtml

    "As an individual player, one’s career stats are what counts, and not some bogus “Well WAR automatically means he’s the most important cog (not the pitcher, of course) so obviously he has to be placed into the HOF, just cause)."

    I'm not sure you have any idea how WAR is calculated, and I'm not going to explain it to you. Suffice it to say that it is entirely based on "career stats," and uh, pitchers accumulate WAR too, you know.

    "I’m just saying that for someone in the HOF, one would expect to see that the stats that have been established since well over a century would go along with the player. We should expect to see that he’s in the top 5-10 in Runs Scored; HR; RBI; Hits; BA; Slugging Average, perhaps triples and also top five in SB."

    Let's take just THREE of those criteria. Can you guess how many players are in the top 10 for Runs Scored, HR, and hits? Go ahead and guess.

    Here's the list:

    Hank Aaron.

    Throw in batting average or SB and it's zero. You "expect" something ludicrous.

    "Yet, because of personal mistakes, the all time career hit leader remains shut out of HOF as does the all time HR leader."

    Is Morgan accused of using steroids? Of betting on baseball? No? Then what on earth do Rose and Bonds have to do with his HOF case?

    Misinterpreting what I stated. Frankie Crosetti wasn’t the straw that stirred the NY drink. Come on. Frankie, Red Rolfe, Babe Dalgren were all starters for NY but I’m not referring to them anymore than I’m talking about Heinrich or Keller. I mean, Crosetti didn’t lead the AL in any major offensive category.

    The straws that stirred the McCarthy WSs (1936-42) were: DiMaggio; Dickey; Gehrig (for 36-38); HOF P Gomez; and Ruffing. During this period, DiMaggio won a batting title, 2 MVPs, and this is the 75th anniversary of his 56 game hitting streak. Gehrig won the MVP in ’36. Dickey hit .362 in ’37 and set the record for catching 13 consecutive seasons in 100+ games per season (which was later tied by Johnny Bench in 1980).

    Although I don’t understand why Rizzuto is in the HOF. Actually I do. The Veterans Committee pushed for him (Berra was at one time on the Committee) this is one of the reasons some yrs ago the HOF started to chastise the Veterans Committee because they were using their votes to help induct their former teammates, their buddies into the HOF. I mean, Bobby Doerr? Come on. Joe Gordon I also don’t quite understand, though he did have similar types of numbers comparable to Morgan’s and he also won an MVP in ’42.

    I have never said that Aaron wasn’t in the top .0001% of MLB players. He clearly is, everyone knows it, his peers knew it, etc. But you’ve just made my point. Aaron is an obvious choice because he is in the top .0001% of greatest to ever play in MLB and his stats bear it out both careerwise and in single seasons when he lead the NL in major offensive categories. Like DUH.
    You must work on reading comprehension a bit more. What I’ve been saying is that the greatest players will tend to dominate in major offensive categories, I never said that they have to dominate in all of them. But at least in some of the MAJOR categories. Let’s take Babe Ruth for an example. At the time of his retirement, he was number one in HR; RBI; and like in the top ten in BA (still is by the way). Morgan isn’t in the top ten in BA; or in: HR; RBI; H (he doesn’t have 3,000, which would be fine IF he was in the top 5-10 in HR; RBI; BA; something to offset that). He’s not in the top 5-10 in any of the traditional major offensive categories.

    But, it also shows you didn’t carefully listen to what I said. Pete Rose is the all time MLB leader in H and is also in top five in Runs Scored, Games Played, At Bats. He was a fairly dominant consistent hits leader. He should be in the HOF, except for a personal mistake. I wonder if in the future some PC oriented commissioner won’t overrule that and just allow him to apply for reinstatement. Wishful thinking, perhaps but you never know.

    I originally stated that its very possible that aside from Bench, Pete Rose was designated to make the HOF as those were the two CIN players that fueled the engine of the Big Red Machine. They were like a tandem. Morgan didn’t play the majority of his career at CIN and only put up bigger numbers when he got there (which then proceeded to drop off once he left). But as Rose is obviously barred from Cooperstown, well, who was the other CIN player of the 70′s that most remember? Interesting as someone pointed out that Tony Perez was inducted in 2000, about fifteen yrs after he retired so clearly there was some legitimate doubt as to his career being HOF worthy. Stats don’t improve with age; they stay the same and if a player wasn’t considered quite all that when he retired it really doesn’t make much sense to “suddenly discover” him decades post-retirement and induct him into the HOF. It tends to call into question the concept of HOFs. Either its for the top .0001% players to ever have played the sport or its the hall of very good, borderlines etc.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Desiderius

    But you’ve just made my point.
     
    First Rule of Holes, Yoj.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Brutusale
    I played high school football on one of the early college turf fields, and getting hit seemed less painful than hitting the turf.

    The old (the Natatorium for the 96 Olympics sits there now) SAC (student athletic complex) intramural fields at Georgia Tech had that old Astroturf, and when they were installed they forget a layer so sand came up through the turf. A lot of bloody flag football/ultimate games on those fields.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Steve Sailer
    Go read the 1976 Sports Illustrated article on why Morgan did more to help his team win than anybody else in baseball. It cites several obscure stats that later became central to sabermetrics and Wins Above Replacement calculations: Morgan's huge number of walks (132 in 1975 when the Reds went 10-54 and won the World Series), his large number of stolen bases and few times caught stealing (60-9), and his seldom grounding into double plays (only 3 times in 1975 despite hitting behind guys like Pete Rose who got on base a lot).

    In other words, sophisticated baseball observers had most of the components of sabermetrics already, they just didn't have a consistent framework. It's one reason I claim that the sabermetrics revolution is often overstated. As Yogi would say, you could observe a lot just by watching. Anybody following the Reds closely in 1975-1976 could tell that Morgan was immensely valuable, and the SI reporter Mark Mulvoy dug up some sophisticated stats to illustrate why.

    Today what Mulvoy did is systematized in various synthetic stats that didn't exist back then. But baseball decisionmaking was pretty good most of the time long before sabermetrics because you can observe a lot just by watching.

    As for Morgan not reaching various career totals, he was better at his peak than his teammate Pete Rose was at his peak, both offensively and defensively, but he was a second baseman whereas Rose gave up playing second base. So Morgan's career totals are gigantic for second basemen but not for all position players. Also Morgan's early career numbers were held down playing in the Astrodome from 1965-1972. And he had a weird period after his big injury in 1968 in 1969-1971 when he was very good but not as excellent as in 1965-1967 or as great as in 1972-1977.

    Morgan was less durable than Rose, playing 20 seasons instead of 24, and usually missing more games during the season than Rose did. If Rose had stayed at second base he probably would have gotten hurt too much to break Ty Cobb's record.

    Anyway, Morgan and Rose are excellent examples of the differences between peak versus career numbers. Rose was just consistently good at singles, doubles, and walks from 1963-1981, which is an incredibly long period.

    It bears mentioning that WAR is adjusted by position, so a second baseman who hits 40 homers is worth more than a first baseman who hits 40 because almost anyone in MLB can play 1st, but not 2nd.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Of course, 2B is a much easier position to play than either SS or 3B since 2B's don't tend to have the arm strength as SS and 3B and they don't cover as wide a range as SS much less 3B. In other words, WAR is adjusted in a fairly arbitrary/subjective kind of way "Everyone knows" that such and such can hit so many HRs so its "worth more" if another position player does it. Whatever. Whichever position player consistently hits the HRs over a career and if more than 500, he should be inducted into the HOF. It doesn't really need to be more complicated than that. Funny how most of these newly discovered stats are by people who never actually played in MLB or were managers, coaches, (no on field experience, which tends to help just as relevant work experience helps when applying for a job).
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • MC says:
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    No, all that's being said is if he's to be placed among the top .00001 of the greatest ever to play in MLB, then the career stats should bear this out. WAR, a relatively new stat, can be somewhat misleading. It is a TEAM game, after all (though obviously players don't get paid the same, etc). Advanced stats, whatever. CIN was already a solidly excellent team before Morgan showed up in '72 (they had won the 1970 pennant). They lost the '72 WS to OAK as well as choking in the '73 NLCS to the Mets before rising to the level of their abilities with championships in '75 and '76. By this measure, by dint of his appearing in 14 WS and playing in 10 championships, NY C Yogi Berra's WAR should be in the top 5-10 of all time MLB players. Wins above replacement don't mean much if the team as a whole don't actually, you know, WIN (e.g. WS Championships or at least pennants in a given year).

    Funny thing is that for over a century, the only position player to be awarded the W stat was the pitcher because that's the one key component to any team and the pitcher changes from day to day.

    Perhaps Joe Morgan is the example of sabermetrics influence in who and who should not be considered the premiere example of "greatest" of all time. He certainly wasn't considered among the greatest players of all time to have played during his prime (1970's) especially when compared to Jackson, Mays, Aaron, Brooks and Frank Robinson, Clemente, Carlton, Rose,Bench, Seaver, etc.

    As an individual player, one's career stats are what counts, and not some bogus "Well WAR automatically means he's the most important cog (not the pitcher, of course) so obviously he has to be placed into the HOF, just cause). Well, where are the career stats to go along with it?

    See, WAR in theory is a good stat, when it happens to coincide with the top .00001 players to have played the game. Babe Ruth, for example, changed the entire MLB's way of playing (emphasis on HR, and higher scoring in general) and the team he joined, NY, a somewhat mediocre franchise starting winning pennants and championships. That can be directly traced to him. But CIN was already a strong pennant contender without Morgan and did just fine with Bobby Tolan at 2B.

    I'm just saying that for someone in the HOF, one would expect to see that the stats that have been established since well over a century would go along with the player. We should expect to see that he's in the top 5-10 in Runs Scored; HR; RBI; Hits; BA; Slugging Average, perhaps triples and also top five in SB. Is Morgan at least in top five in doubles? Yet, because of personal mistakes, the all time career hit leader remains shut out of HOF as does the all time HR leader.

    Oh man, where to start.

    You say that WAR is a “misleading” stat, then you claim that a better measure of player value is World Series championships. So I guess Frankie Crosetti, with 8 WS wins, 98 home runs, a .245 batting average, and 113 stolen bases, is some kind of super star:

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/crosefr01.shtml

    “As an individual player, one’s career stats are what counts, and not some bogus “Well WAR automatically means he’s the most important cog (not the pitcher, of course) so obviously he has to be placed into the HOF, just cause).”

    I’m not sure you have any idea how WAR is calculated, and I’m not going to explain it to you. Suffice it to say that it is entirely based on “career stats,” and uh, pitchers accumulate WAR too, you know.

    “I’m just saying that for someone in the HOF, one would expect to see that the stats that have been established since well over a century would go along with the player. We should expect to see that he’s in the top 5-10 in Runs Scored; HR; RBI; Hits; BA; Slugging Average, perhaps triples and also top five in SB.”

    Let’s take just THREE of those criteria. Can you guess how many players are in the top 10 for Runs Scored, HR, and hits? Go ahead and guess.

    Here’s the list:

    Hank Aaron.

    Throw in batting average or SB and it’s zero. You “expect” something ludicrous.

    “Yet, because of personal mistakes, the all time career hit leader remains shut out of HOF as does the all time HR leader.”

    Is Morgan accused of using steroids? Of betting on baseball? No? Then what on earth do Rose and Bonds have to do with his HOF case?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Misinterpreting what I stated. Frankie Crosetti wasn't the straw that stirred the NY drink. Come on. Frankie, Red Rolfe, Babe Dalgren were all starters for NY but I'm not referring to them anymore than I'm talking about Heinrich or Keller. I mean, Crosetti didn't lead the AL in any major offensive category.

    The straws that stirred the McCarthy WSs (1936-42) were: DiMaggio; Dickey; Gehrig (for 36-38); HOF P Gomez; and Ruffing. During this period, DiMaggio won a batting title, 2 MVPs, and this is the 75th anniversary of his 56 game hitting streak. Gehrig won the MVP in '36. Dickey hit .362 in '37 and set the record for catching 13 consecutive seasons in 100+ games per season (which was later tied by Johnny Bench in 1980).

    Although I don't understand why Rizzuto is in the HOF. Actually I do. The Veterans Committee pushed for him (Berra was at one time on the Committee) this is one of the reasons some yrs ago the HOF started to chastise the Veterans Committee because they were using their votes to help induct their former teammates, their buddies into the HOF. I mean, Bobby Doerr? Come on. Joe Gordon I also don't quite understand, though he did have similar types of numbers comparable to Morgan's and he also won an MVP in '42.

    I have never said that Aaron wasn't in the top .0001% of MLB players. He clearly is, everyone knows it, his peers knew it, etc. But you've just made my point. Aaron is an obvious choice because he is in the top .0001% of greatest to ever play in MLB and his stats bear it out both careerwise and in single seasons when he lead the NL in major offensive categories. Like DUH.
    You must work on reading comprehension a bit more. What I've been saying is that the greatest players will tend to dominate in major offensive categories, I never said that they have to dominate in all of them. But at least in some of the MAJOR categories. Let's take Babe Ruth for an example. At the time of his retirement, he was number one in HR; RBI; and like in the top ten in BA (still is by the way). Morgan isn't in the top ten in BA; or in: HR; RBI; H (he doesn't have 3,000, which would be fine IF he was in the top 5-10 in HR; RBI; BA; something to offset that). He's not in the top 5-10 in any of the traditional major offensive categories.

    But, it also shows you didn't carefully listen to what I said. Pete Rose is the all time MLB leader in H and is also in top five in Runs Scored, Games Played, At Bats. He was a fairly dominant consistent hits leader. He should be in the HOF, except for a personal mistake. I wonder if in the future some PC oriented commissioner won't overrule that and just allow him to apply for reinstatement. Wishful thinking, perhaps but you never know.

    I originally stated that its very possible that aside from Bench, Pete Rose was designated to make the HOF as those were the two CIN players that fueled the engine of the Big Red Machine. They were like a tandem. Morgan didn't play the majority of his career at CIN and only put up bigger numbers when he got there (which then proceeded to drop off once he left). But as Rose is obviously barred from Cooperstown, well, who was the other CIN player of the 70's that most remember? Interesting as someone pointed out that Tony Perez was inducted in 2000, about fifteen yrs after he retired so clearly there was some legitimate doubt as to his career being HOF worthy. Stats don't improve with age; they stay the same and if a player wasn't considered quite all that when he retired it really doesn't make much sense to "suddenly discover" him decades post-retirement and induct him into the HOF. It tends to call into question the concept of HOFs. Either its for the top .0001% players to ever have played the sport or its the hall of very good, borderlines etc.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Steve Sailer
    Heck, the Kansas City ballpark's turf was so hard and fast back then that in the 1980 ALCS 35-year-old Graig Nettles, coming off a couple of months on the disabled list in a season in which he hit no triples and did not attempt to steal a base, hit an inside-the-park home run.

    I much prefer grass to artificial turf, but I think baseball games would be more fun if they kept the grass "firm and fast" like the greenskeepers do for the US Open golf tournament. More triples!

    Greg Nettles, as well as Clete Boyer, were two 3B’s that HOF elite 3B Brooks Robinson considered to be the two 3B who were equal to him. I think that’s also telling, which players are considered amazing by their peers. In the 50s/60′s most MLB players were fans of Mantle; Mays; perhaps Aaron; Clemente. In the 70′s it probably was Reggie; Rose; Yaz; Bench; and some pitchers. I just don’t recall Morgan’s name being “Oh, yeah! That’s the man, he’s the greatest bar none” by his peers. Obviously they thought highly of him, but not on the level like “We’re watching the greatest to ever play the game” kind of thing. Also quite telling.

    In Morgan’s case, Sabermetrics helped him reach the HOF. Under previous generations he certainly wouldn’t have been in first yrs of eligibility. HOF is a reward for a consistent long haul career, not for a few seasons of amazingness or at least it should be. I suppose sabermetrics will next make an argument for Bobby Gritch; Mark Belanger; Paul Dade; perhaps even Willie Montanez. And yet the all time hits leader remains barred from the HOF.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @ScarletNumber
    I shocked to learn that George Brett led the AL in triples three times.

    Why? He won a couple batting titles, hit .390 in 1980, and has over 3,000 career hits. I don’t think Joe Morgan ever lead the league in triples, though. Maybe he did. Morgan didn’t lead the league in many offensive stats though during his career and didn’t win a batting title (nor has 3,000 hits).

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Steve Sailer
    Go read the 1976 Sports Illustrated article on why Morgan did more to help his team win than anybody else in baseball. It cites several obscure stats that later became central to sabermetrics and Wins Above Replacement calculations: Morgan's huge number of walks (132 in 1975 when the Reds went 10-54 and won the World Series), his large number of stolen bases and few times caught stealing (60-9), and his seldom grounding into double plays (only 3 times in 1975 despite hitting behind guys like Pete Rose who got on base a lot).

    In other words, sophisticated baseball observers had most of the components of sabermetrics already, they just didn't have a consistent framework. It's one reason I claim that the sabermetrics revolution is often overstated. As Yogi would say, you could observe a lot just by watching. Anybody following the Reds closely in 1975-1976 could tell that Morgan was immensely valuable, and the SI reporter Mark Mulvoy dug up some sophisticated stats to illustrate why.

    Today what Mulvoy did is systematized in various synthetic stats that didn't exist back then. But baseball decisionmaking was pretty good most of the time long before sabermetrics because you can observe a lot just by watching.

    As for Morgan not reaching various career totals, he was better at his peak than his teammate Pete Rose was at his peak, both offensively and defensively, but he was a second baseman whereas Rose gave up playing second base. So Morgan's career totals are gigantic for second basemen but not for all position players. Also Morgan's early career numbers were held down playing in the Astrodome from 1965-1972. And he had a weird period after his big injury in 1968 in 1969-1971 when he was very good but not as excellent as in 1965-1967 or as great as in 1972-1977.

    Morgan was less durable than Rose, playing 20 seasons instead of 24, and usually missing more games during the season than Rose did. If Rose had stayed at second base he probably would have gotten hurt too much to break Ty Cobb's record.

    Anyway, Morgan and Rose are excellent examples of the differences between peak versus career numbers. Rose was just consistently good at singles, doubles, and walks from 1963-1981, which is an incredibly long period.

    I understand that Morgan was excellent as a 2B. 2B wasn’t Rose’s natural position, though. He was very good to excellent at 2B, SS, 3B (which eventually became more or less his established position) as well as OF-1B. He was just an all around excellent defensive whiz at nearly every position, except of course for P and C. It also goes to show that Pete possessed a much stronger arm and better all around infield range than Morgan for him to shifted over to 3B.

    The other arguments for Morgan, honestly, are excuses. Carlton’s 27-10, 310K’s, 1.92E.RA came for dead last PHIL (59-102). Obviously for whatever the reason, Carlton wasn’t affected on the days he started by the Phillies’s horrible season or rather somehow they managed to rise to the occasion of helping their franchise pitcher. In other words, a lack of support generally doesn’t hinder the top greatest players; individually their stats don’t tend to suffer. Harmon Killebrew didn’t play for great teams during a portion of his career and yet his offensive totals are quite excellent. It’s also a matter of subjective opinion that Morgan’s peek was better than Rose’s. Pete Rose has the most hits in all of MLB history, including 10 seasons of over 200 plus hits in a season. As well as a 44 game hitting streak. I mean, Rose won 3 batting titles and also an MVP, he was rookie of the year, played in more WS’s, I’m sorry I’m not seeing a down period in Pete’s career. By most objective measures, had it not been for his gambling problems, I think its fair to state that Pete Rose would be in the HOF first ballot without doubt and widely regarded as among the best singles hitters of all time. Only one of two MLB players to have over 4,000 hits? And he is also in the top five (or was) in Runs Scored. I can’t put Morgan over Rose in total greatness. Its a shame that one was banned not only from MLB but from the HOF.

    If Morgan was better at his peak, then we should expect to see it reflected in his total career numbers. The thing is, Pete Rose’s peak was more consistent and durable over a 24yr career. There was one time he had like 7-9 consecutive seasons where he played in 160plus games, he could almost have challenged Lou Gehrig’s total game streak (the guy didn’t take many days off).
    He simply was one of the greatest pure singles hitters in MLB history. Considering that he started out in Crosley field and then played without much difficulty in artificial turf Riverfront Stadium, Veterans Stadium etc. didn’t seem to hinder him in the least. Yes, he was blessed not to have any major injury during his career that significantly sidelined him, but that’s life. Who said that life was fair?

    By any objective measure, Pete Rose ranks as one of MLB’s greatest, as in top .00001% to ever play the game. Really isn’t debatable, and I think everyone here knows that. Let’s not rewrite history just because the man had some personal problems and he isn’t likely to make Cooperstown (which is truly a shame). Certain names that stand out in the 60′s and 70′s, and Pete Rose is easily in the top ten. It also didn’t matter which team Rose played for (though obviously remembered with CIN), he was still playing at a fairly consistent dominant level up to the next to last full season (ca.1983 or 84, when he was in his early forties). Morgan, as you mentioned, didn’t become truly the player he’s remembered until around 1972, when he went to the Reds. Also, when Joe Morgan left CIN, his numbers started to decline so that begs the question perhaps he benefitted more in CIN than did Pete Rose, who played just as well in PHIL and did quite well in MON. He went back to CIN so he could break Ty Cobb’s all time hits record with his hometown team.

    Reminds me, as this is the 75th anniversary of DiMaggio’s still record MLB 56 hitting streak and I believe that this week marks the anniversary of the beginning of the hitting streak. Ironically Pete Rose had a 44 game hitting streak. In Richard Lally’s book “Bombers” Joe Morgan believed that only Pete Rose was capable of breaking DiMaggio’s streak, that he didn’t meant in his opinion that no one ever will.

    But fair is fair: Everyone knows that Pete Rose ranks among the all time greatest MLB players bar none in singles hits, runs scored, also ranks at the top in Games Played, At Bats. As just a pure consistent singles hitter, he’s the greatest ever. Just because he made a mess of personal problems let’s not rewrite the history books.

    If Ichiro Suzuki started his career in the US, I would consider changing my opinion because Ichiro could easily have had a chance to have 4,500 or more career hits in MLB had he began his career in the US.

    Read More
    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
    Ichiro currently has 4243 hits between NPB and MLB, so he is only 13 short of Rose.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Brutusale
    Yeah, Rose played in Crosley, which if memory serves, was the smallest park in MLB in the 60s.

    What I find interesting from the 60s is Carl Yastrzemski, a very good but not great player for his first five years who began working with an Eastern European trainer in the 1966-1967 offseason. He went on to more than double his previous season high home run totals during his Triple Crown 1967 season. He was 27 and hitting his physical peak, but something seems fishy.

    Speaking of the "dead ball" 60s, does anyone think there will ever be another 30-game winner in MLB? It's been 48 years since Denny McLain won 31 with 336 IP. I don't think anyone reaches 250 IP anymore.

    Speaking of the “dead ball” 60s, does anyone think there will ever be another 30-game winner in MLB?

    Ha! I just looked at a minor league franchise’s record of no-hitters over the years. Of their last five, only one was by a single pitcher. The last two, the only ones in this decade, were each credited to three pitchers.

    If managers will pull pitchers, even two pitchers, before they’ve given up the first hit, a 30-win season looks a long, long way away.

    Thanks to a recent rule change, Babe Ruth is now co-credited with a no-hitter, even though he didn’t pitch a single out:

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/bullpen/Ernie_Shore

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @ScarletNumber
    I shocked to learn that George Brett led the AL in triples three times.

    Heck, the Kansas City ballpark’s turf was so hard and fast back then that in the 1980 ALCS 35-year-old Graig Nettles, coming off a couple of months on the disabled list in a season in which he hit no triples and did not attempt to steal a base, hit an inside-the-park home run.

    I much prefer grass to artificial turf, but I think baseball games would be more fun if they kept the grass “firm and fast” like the greenskeepers do for the US Open golf tournament. More triples!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Greg Nettles, as well as Clete Boyer, were two 3B's that HOF elite 3B Brooks Robinson considered to be the two 3B who were equal to him. I think that's also telling, which players are considered amazing by their peers. In the 50s/60's most MLB players were fans of Mantle; Mays; perhaps Aaron; Clemente. In the 70's it probably was Reggie; Rose; Yaz; Bench; and some pitchers. I just don't recall Morgan's name being "Oh, yeah! That's the man, he's the greatest bar none" by his peers. Obviously they thought highly of him, but not on the level like "We're watching the greatest to ever play the game" kind of thing. Also quite telling.

    In Morgan's case, Sabermetrics helped him reach the HOF. Under previous generations he certainly wouldn't have been in first yrs of eligibility. HOF is a reward for a consistent long haul career, not for a few seasons of amazingness or at least it should be. I suppose sabermetrics will next make an argument for Bobby Gritch; Mark Belanger; Paul Dade; perhaps even Willie Montanez. And yet the all time hits leader remains barred from the HOF.
    , @ben tillman
    There's nothing more exciting than an attempt at an inside-the-park home run. Our local park has a green hill behind straightaway center field to help hitters see the ball. I'd like to see the Rangers remove the hill and push the fence back 30 or 40 feet.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Technically, one of PIT John Candaleria's nicknames (aside from "Candy" and "The Candy Man") was Lefty. And PIT is in the National League.

    Just stop it, you are embarrassing yourself.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Steve Sailer
    I think there are some subtle groundskeeping things that could be done to real grass outfields to get line drives to roll through the gaps between outfielders more often for doubles and triples. Golf greenskeepers have lots of tricks for increasing or decreasing how far tee shots roll. I'd like to see a natural grass outfield that's as fast as Kansas City's artificial turf was when Willie Wilson and George Brett were ringing up 20 triples per year.

    I shocked to learn that George Brett led the AL in triples three times.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Heck, the Kansas City ballpark's turf was so hard and fast back then that in the 1980 ALCS 35-year-old Graig Nettles, coming off a couple of months on the disabled list in a season in which he hit no triples and did not attempt to steal a base, hit an inside-the-park home run.

    I much prefer grass to artificial turf, but I think baseball games would be more fun if they kept the grass "firm and fast" like the greenskeepers do for the US Open golf tournament. More triples!

    , @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Why? He won a couple batting titles, hit .390 in 1980, and has over 3,000 career hits. I don't think Joe Morgan ever lead the league in triples, though. Maybe he did. Morgan didn't lead the league in many offensive stats though during his career and didn't win a batting title (nor has 3,000 hits).
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    No, all that's being said is if he's to be placed among the top .00001 of the greatest ever to play in MLB, then the career stats should bear this out. WAR, a relatively new stat, can be somewhat misleading. It is a TEAM game, after all (though obviously players don't get paid the same, etc). Advanced stats, whatever. CIN was already a solidly excellent team before Morgan showed up in '72 (they had won the 1970 pennant). They lost the '72 WS to OAK as well as choking in the '73 NLCS to the Mets before rising to the level of their abilities with championships in '75 and '76. By this measure, by dint of his appearing in 14 WS and playing in 10 championships, NY C Yogi Berra's WAR should be in the top 5-10 of all time MLB players. Wins above replacement don't mean much if the team as a whole don't actually, you know, WIN (e.g. WS Championships or at least pennants in a given year).

    Funny thing is that for over a century, the only position player to be awarded the W stat was the pitcher because that's the one key component to any team and the pitcher changes from day to day.

    Perhaps Joe Morgan is the example of sabermetrics influence in who and who should not be considered the premiere example of "greatest" of all time. He certainly wasn't considered among the greatest players of all time to have played during his prime (1970's) especially when compared to Jackson, Mays, Aaron, Brooks and Frank Robinson, Clemente, Carlton, Rose,Bench, Seaver, etc.

    As an individual player, one's career stats are what counts, and not some bogus "Well WAR automatically means he's the most important cog (not the pitcher, of course) so obviously he has to be placed into the HOF, just cause). Well, where are the career stats to go along with it?

    See, WAR in theory is a good stat, when it happens to coincide with the top .00001 players to have played the game. Babe Ruth, for example, changed the entire MLB's way of playing (emphasis on HR, and higher scoring in general) and the team he joined, NY, a somewhat mediocre franchise starting winning pennants and championships. That can be directly traced to him. But CIN was already a strong pennant contender without Morgan and did just fine with Bobby Tolan at 2B.

    I'm just saying that for someone in the HOF, one would expect to see that the stats that have been established since well over a century would go along with the player. We should expect to see that he's in the top 5-10 in Runs Scored; HR; RBI; Hits; BA; Slugging Average, perhaps triples and also top five in SB. Is Morgan at least in top five in doubles? Yet, because of personal mistakes, the all time career hit leader remains shut out of HOF as does the all time HR leader.

    Go read the 1976 Sports Illustrated article on why Morgan did more to help his team win than anybody else in baseball. It cites several obscure stats that later became central to sabermetrics and Wins Above Replacement calculations: Morgan’s huge number of walks (132 in 1975 when the Reds went 10-54 and won the World Series), his large number of stolen bases and few times caught stealing (60-9), and his seldom grounding into double plays (only 3 times in 1975 despite hitting behind guys like Pete Rose who got on base a lot).

    In other words, sophisticated baseball observers had most of the components of sabermetrics already, they just didn’t have a consistent framework. It’s one reason I claim that the sabermetrics revolution is often overstated. As Yogi would say, you could observe a lot just by watching. Anybody following the Reds closely in 1975-1976 could tell that Morgan was immensely valuable, and the SI reporter Mark Mulvoy dug up some sophisticated stats to illustrate why.

    Today what Mulvoy did is systematized in various synthetic stats that didn’t exist back then. But baseball decisionmaking was pretty good most of the time long before sabermetrics because you can observe a lot just by watching.

    As for Morgan not reaching various career totals, he was better at his peak than his teammate Pete Rose was at his peak, both offensively and defensively, but he was a second baseman whereas Rose gave up playing second base. So Morgan’s career totals are gigantic for second basemen but not for all position players. Also Morgan’s early career numbers were held down playing in the Astrodome from 1965-1972. And he had a weird period after his big injury in 1968 in 1969-1971 when he was very good but not as excellent as in 1965-1967 or as great as in 1972-1977.

    Morgan was less durable than Rose, playing 20 seasons instead of 24, and usually missing more games during the season than Rose did. If Rose had stayed at second base he probably would have gotten hurt too much to break Ty Cobb’s record.

    Anyway, Morgan and Rose are excellent examples of the differences between peak versus career numbers. Rose was just consistently good at singles, doubles, and walks from 1963-1981, which is an incredibly long period.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    I understand that Morgan was excellent as a 2B. 2B wasn't Rose's natural position, though. He was very good to excellent at 2B, SS, 3B (which eventually became more or less his established position) as well as OF-1B. He was just an all around excellent defensive whiz at nearly every position, except of course for P and C. It also goes to show that Pete possessed a much stronger arm and better all around infield range than Morgan for him to shifted over to 3B.

    The other arguments for Morgan, honestly, are excuses. Carlton's 27-10, 310K's, 1.92E.RA came for dead last PHIL (59-102). Obviously for whatever the reason, Carlton wasn't affected on the days he started by the Phillies's horrible season or rather somehow they managed to rise to the occasion of helping their franchise pitcher. In other words, a lack of support generally doesn't hinder the top greatest players; individually their stats don't tend to suffer. Harmon Killebrew didn't play for great teams during a portion of his career and yet his offensive totals are quite excellent. It's also a matter of subjective opinion that Morgan's peek was better than Rose's. Pete Rose has the most hits in all of MLB history, including 10 seasons of over 200 plus hits in a season. As well as a 44 game hitting streak. I mean, Rose won 3 batting titles and also an MVP, he was rookie of the year, played in more WS's, I'm sorry I'm not seeing a down period in Pete's career. By most objective measures, had it not been for his gambling problems, I think its fair to state that Pete Rose would be in the HOF first ballot without doubt and widely regarded as among the best singles hitters of all time. Only one of two MLB players to have over 4,000 hits? And he is also in the top five (or was) in Runs Scored. I can't put Morgan over Rose in total greatness. Its a shame that one was banned not only from MLB but from the HOF.

    If Morgan was better at his peak, then we should expect to see it reflected in his total career numbers. The thing is, Pete Rose's peak was more consistent and durable over a 24yr career. There was one time he had like 7-9 consecutive seasons where he played in 160plus games, he could almost have challenged Lou Gehrig's total game streak (the guy didn't take many days off).
    He simply was one of the greatest pure singles hitters in MLB history. Considering that he started out in Crosley field and then played without much difficulty in artificial turf Riverfront Stadium, Veterans Stadium etc. didn't seem to hinder him in the least. Yes, he was blessed not to have any major injury during his career that significantly sidelined him, but that's life. Who said that life was fair?

    By any objective measure, Pete Rose ranks as one of MLB's greatest, as in top .00001% to ever play the game. Really isn't debatable, and I think everyone here knows that. Let's not rewrite history just because the man had some personal problems and he isn't likely to make Cooperstown (which is truly a shame). Certain names that stand out in the 60's and 70's, and Pete Rose is easily in the top ten. It also didn't matter which team Rose played for (though obviously remembered with CIN), he was still playing at a fairly consistent dominant level up to the next to last full season (ca.1983 or 84, when he was in his early forties). Morgan, as you mentioned, didn't become truly the player he's remembered until around 1972, when he went to the Reds. Also, when Joe Morgan left CIN, his numbers started to decline so that begs the question perhaps he benefitted more in CIN than did Pete Rose, who played just as well in PHIL and did quite well in MON. He went back to CIN so he could break Ty Cobb's all time hits record with his hometown team.

    Reminds me, as this is the 75th anniversary of DiMaggio's still record MLB 56 hitting streak and I believe that this week marks the anniversary of the beginning of the hitting streak. Ironically Pete Rose had a 44 game hitting streak. In Richard Lally's book "Bombers" Joe Morgan believed that only Pete Rose was capable of breaking DiMaggio's streak, that he didn't meant in his opinion that no one ever will.

    But fair is fair: Everyone knows that Pete Rose ranks among the all time greatest MLB players bar none in singles hits, runs scored, also ranks at the top in Games Played, At Bats. As just a pure consistent singles hitter, he's the greatest ever. Just because he made a mess of personal problems let's not rewrite the history books.

    If Ichiro Suzuki started his career in the US, I would consider changing my opinion because Ichiro could easily have had a chance to have 4,500 or more career hits in MLB had he began his career in the US.
    , @MC
    It bears mentioning that WAR is adjusted by position, so a second baseman who hits 40 homers is worth more than a first baseman who hits 40 because almost anyone in MLB can play 1st, but not 2nd.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @MC
    Since this is a thread about how blacks don't use advanced stats, maybe I should point out that Joe Morgan has over 100 WAR (Wins Above Replacement), which gives him the 30th-most valuable career of any MLB player in history according to advanced stats:

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/WAR_career.shtml

    Anyone who thinks he doesn't belong in the HOF knows zip about baseball.

    No, all that’s being said is if he’s to be placed among the top .00001 of the greatest ever to play in MLB, then the career stats should bear this out. WAR, a relatively new stat, can be somewhat misleading. It is a TEAM game, after all (though obviously players don’t get paid the same, etc). Advanced stats, whatever. CIN was already a solidly excellent team before Morgan showed up in ’72 (they had won the 1970 pennant). They lost the ’72 WS to OAK as well as choking in the ’73 NLCS to the Mets before rising to the level of their abilities with championships in ’75 and ’76. By this measure, by dint of his appearing in 14 WS and playing in 10 championships, NY C Yogi Berra’s WAR should be in the top 5-10 of all time MLB players. Wins above replacement don’t mean much if the team as a whole don’t actually, you know, WIN (e.g. WS Championships or at least pennants in a given year).

    Funny thing is that for over a century, the only position player to be awarded the W stat was the pitcher because that’s the one key component to any team and the pitcher changes from day to day.

    Perhaps Joe Morgan is the example of sabermetrics influence in who and who should not be considered the premiere example of “greatest” of all time. He certainly wasn’t considered among the greatest players of all time to have played during his prime (1970′s) especially when compared to Jackson, Mays, Aaron, Brooks and Frank Robinson, Clemente, Carlton, Rose,Bench, Seaver, etc.

    As an individual player, one’s career stats are what counts, and not some bogus “Well WAR automatically means he’s the most important cog (not the pitcher, of course) so obviously he has to be placed into the HOF, just cause). Well, where are the career stats to go along with it?

    See, WAR in theory is a good stat, when it happens to coincide with the top .00001 players to have played the game. Babe Ruth, for example, changed the entire MLB’s way of playing (emphasis on HR, and higher scoring in general) and the team he joined, NY, a somewhat mediocre franchise starting winning pennants and championships. That can be directly traced to him. But CIN was already a strong pennant contender without Morgan and did just fine with Bobby Tolan at 2B.

    I’m just saying that for someone in the HOF, one would expect to see that the stats that have been established since well over a century would go along with the player. We should expect to see that he’s in the top 5-10 in Runs Scored; HR; RBI; Hits; BA; Slugging Average, perhaps triples and also top five in SB. Is Morgan at least in top five in doubles? Yet, because of personal mistakes, the all time career hit leader remains shut out of HOF as does the all time HR leader.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Go read the 1976 Sports Illustrated article on why Morgan did more to help his team win than anybody else in baseball. It cites several obscure stats that later became central to sabermetrics and Wins Above Replacement calculations: Morgan's huge number of walks (132 in 1975 when the Reds went 10-54 and won the World Series), his large number of stolen bases and few times caught stealing (60-9), and his seldom grounding into double plays (only 3 times in 1975 despite hitting behind guys like Pete Rose who got on base a lot).

    In other words, sophisticated baseball observers had most of the components of sabermetrics already, they just didn't have a consistent framework. It's one reason I claim that the sabermetrics revolution is often overstated. As Yogi would say, you could observe a lot just by watching. Anybody following the Reds closely in 1975-1976 could tell that Morgan was immensely valuable, and the SI reporter Mark Mulvoy dug up some sophisticated stats to illustrate why.

    Today what Mulvoy did is systematized in various synthetic stats that didn't exist back then. But baseball decisionmaking was pretty good most of the time long before sabermetrics because you can observe a lot just by watching.

    As for Morgan not reaching various career totals, he was better at his peak than his teammate Pete Rose was at his peak, both offensively and defensively, but he was a second baseman whereas Rose gave up playing second base. So Morgan's career totals are gigantic for second basemen but not for all position players. Also Morgan's early career numbers were held down playing in the Astrodome from 1965-1972. And he had a weird period after his big injury in 1968 in 1969-1971 when he was very good but not as excellent as in 1965-1967 or as great as in 1972-1977.

    Morgan was less durable than Rose, playing 20 seasons instead of 24, and usually missing more games during the season than Rose did. If Rose had stayed at second base he probably would have gotten hurt too much to break Ty Cobb's record.

    Anyway, Morgan and Rose are excellent examples of the differences between peak versus career numbers. Rose was just consistently good at singles, doubles, and walks from 1963-1981, which is an incredibly long period.

    , @MC
    Oh man, where to start.

    You say that WAR is a "misleading" stat, then you claim that a better measure of player value is World Series championships. So I guess Frankie Crosetti, with 8 WS wins, 98 home runs, a .245 batting average, and 113 stolen bases, is some kind of super star:

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/crosefr01.shtml

    "As an individual player, one’s career stats are what counts, and not some bogus “Well WAR automatically means he’s the most important cog (not the pitcher, of course) so obviously he has to be placed into the HOF, just cause)."

    I'm not sure you have any idea how WAR is calculated, and I'm not going to explain it to you. Suffice it to say that it is entirely based on "career stats," and uh, pitchers accumulate WAR too, you know.

    "I’m just saying that for someone in the HOF, one would expect to see that the stats that have been established since well over a century would go along with the player. We should expect to see that he’s in the top 5-10 in Runs Scored; HR; RBI; Hits; BA; Slugging Average, perhaps triples and also top five in SB."

    Let's take just THREE of those criteria. Can you guess how many players are in the top 10 for Runs Scored, HR, and hits? Go ahead and guess.

    Here's the list:

    Hank Aaron.

    Throw in batting average or SB and it's zero. You "expect" something ludicrous.

    "Yet, because of personal mistakes, the all time career hit leader remains shut out of HOF as does the all time HR leader."

    Is Morgan accused of using steroids? Of betting on baseball? No? Then what on earth do Rose and Bonds have to do with his HOF case?
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Reg Cæsar


    There is a reason that in the 140-year history of the National League, there is only one pitcher who is called Lefty.

     

    Uh, HOFer For NY Vernon “Lefty” Gomez. “Lefty” Grove (also in the HOF). Or was this stated in jest?

     

    Grove and Gomez played in the American League.

    Technically, one of PIT John Candaleria’s nicknames (aside from “Candy” and “The Candy Man”) was Lefty. And PIT is in the National League.

    Read More
    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
    Just stop it, you are embarrassing yourself.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Desiderius
    Bench hit .234 for the 1975 Big Red Machine. He was always feast or famine at the plate. His mean performance was exceptional for a catcher (and his defense was unparalleled), but he was relatively high variance.

    Exactly, Bench has no business in the HOF. Feast or famine, a complete bust. Gotcha. Of course, Morgan didn’t become “great” until his years in CIN. So perhaps he benefitted from playing with a team called the Big Red Machine and the likes of Bench, Perez, Rose, etc.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.