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    Mad World An increasingly common cliché these days is that America is mired in the midst of its own Cultural Revolution. One of the most fascinatingly telling incidents to this effect occurred in a library at the University of Washington around January 2017, shortly after Trump had delivered his inauguration speech.[1] Various protestors stormed what...
  • @James Forrestal
    You're merely repeating (at greater, yet more ignorant, length) your original nonsensical "argument." Clearly, you lack even the minimal reasoning ability required to comprehend its internal inconsistency -- or perhaps have somehow convinced yourself that you can make up for it by doubling down on your dogmatic, ignorant, hate-filled race denialism. Sad.

    Your basic argument is the same, despite its meaningless rhetorical flourishes. Part of it seems to be the typically Far Left inability to distinguish between normative and positive statements; and of course part of it stems from your (wholly misplaced) confidence in your own "intelligence" and "morality."

    "you think I am making an argument specifically against the west (typical WN victimization complex), when its obvious that I am making an abstract moral argument...bla bla bla more pilpul and sophistry at greater and more pointless length"

    1. At whom is your argument directed, hmm? Do you understand what the term "deliberately disingenuous" means? I thought not.

    2. So you support open borders for China? India? Israel?

    3. You seem remarkably determined to maintain your "abstract moral argument" in such a rarefied state of abstraction that it is entirely free-floating, and not grounded in anything even approaching empirical support. This sort of worthless, transparently-false imitation of actual logical argumentation is typical of the Far Left (and of a certain ethnic group, of course).

    Repeating your initial misconceptions, only at greater length, and with more emotional incontinence, while ignoring my (very basic) point, does nothing to legitimize your "argument." You're shadowboxing here -- engaging with the demons of your fervid imagination, rather than the arguments right in front of you. Again, this is typical of the Far Left; they fail to comprehend the Right's actual arguments (which they have no answer for, anyway), and choose instead to engage with the caricatures of those arguments that their teevees spoon-feed to them. Sad.

    Again -- all races/ peoples/ cultures expand/ settle / invade when they get the chance. This is an (obviously true) observation about the real world, not a moral judgment. I have no "moral obligation" to accept your pathetic attempts to push White guilt on me. I'm merely noting that you would never attempt to push Turk guilt on the Turks, or North African guilt on the descendants of the Barbary pirates, or Jew guilt on those responsible for the Bolshevik revolution Everyone has the right to self-defense. Of course, your rabid, unreasoning anti-White hatred leads you to convince yourself that somehow every other race does, but Whites do not.

    But keep on rationalizing your hatred, at even greater length. Go right ahead. It's clear that the process somehow paradoxically raises your badly misplaced sense of your own virtuousness to even greater heights. Have fun.

    Again — all races/ peoples/ cultures expand/ settle / invade when they get the chance. This is an (obviously true) observation about the real world, not a moral judgment. I have no “moral obligation” to accept your pathetic attempts to push White guilt on me. I’m merely noting that you would never attempt to push Turk guilt on the Turks, or North African guilt on the descendants of the Barbary pirates, or Jew guilt on those responsible for the Bolshevik revolution Everyone has the right to self-defense. Of course, your rabid, unreasoning anti-White hatred leads you to convince yourself that somehow every other race does, but Whites do not.

    Not necessarily. What you’re saying is patently untrue. If this was true, then why did the ming dynasty willingly destroy their (massive) fleet and then voluntarily close their borders to the outside world? They had the chance to expand and settle, but they chose not to. Not all cultures value expansion and colonialism as much as the west does. The ming dynasty is only one example; I’m sure there are plenty of other examples where others cultures had the opportunity to expand/invade but instead chose not to. You are only pushing this erroneous line of reasoning because it is convenient for you and it exonerates the west; however its a piece of reasoning that doesn’t hold up so well when put to the test. You need to understand, not every culture is as warlike, domineering and expansive as western european culture is; different cultures simply have different prerogatives.

    White nationalists always want to brag about how intrepid, brave and adventurous white people are compared to other races; well…with that kind of mindset, global colonization is what you get. White nationalists always want to brag about how unique and different white people are when it comes to anything positive about white people, but then all the sudden whenever anything negative comes up white nationalists always try to backtrack and act as if everybody possesses equal capacity for doing bad things. That’s pretty disingenuous if you ask me

    Also I find it funny that you want to claim the law of the jungle with regards to the ubiquity of colonialism and how that precludes any kind of universal moral judgment being passed against it, yet in the same paragraph you suddenly want to talk about how everyone has the right to self defense. So basically you are trying to imply that universal notions of morality do not exist when it comes to colonization, but then suddenly universal notions of morality exist when it comes to self defense IE cultural preservation? If according to you my assertion that colonialism is immoral is baseless, then just what are you basing your own idea of universal right to self defense on? You’re basically trying to selectively enforce morality at this point, and you only talk about “rights” when it benefits you, instead of being morally consistent and applying notions of morality equally no matter what.

    The turks, north africans or jews were not the primary topic of discussion in this particular conversation; hence that is why nobody discusses their culpability or blame. If we were specifically discussing the turks, north africans or jews within that sort of context then I would have no problem objectively discussing their potential culpability. We are discussing the culpability of the west with regards to colonization because it is tangential, not because of any personal biases. That being said, I am personally biased against hypocrites, but this is a bias that transcends race and color lines.

    But keep on rationalizing your hatred, at even greater length. Go right ahead. It’s clear that the process somehow paradoxically raises your badly misplaced sense of your own virtuousness to even greater heights. Have fun.

    Not really, Im as cool as a cucumber. And yes, I am having fun dissecting your arguments and verbally jousting with you

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  • @James Forrestal
    You're merely repeating (at greater, yet more ignorant, length) your original nonsensical "argument." Clearly, you lack even the minimal reasoning ability required to comprehend its internal inconsistency -- or perhaps have somehow convinced yourself that you can make up for it by doubling down on your dogmatic, ignorant, hate-filled race denialism. Sad.

    Your basic argument is the same, despite its meaningless rhetorical flourishes. Part of it seems to be the typically Far Left inability to distinguish between normative and positive statements; and of course part of it stems from your (wholly misplaced) confidence in your own "intelligence" and "morality."

    "you think I am making an argument specifically against the west (typical WN victimization complex), when its obvious that I am making an abstract moral argument...bla bla bla more pilpul and sophistry at greater and more pointless length"

    1. At whom is your argument directed, hmm? Do you understand what the term "deliberately disingenuous" means? I thought not.

    2. So you support open borders for China? India? Israel?

    3. You seem remarkably determined to maintain your "abstract moral argument" in such a rarefied state of abstraction that it is entirely free-floating, and not grounded in anything even approaching empirical support. This sort of worthless, transparently-false imitation of actual logical argumentation is typical of the Far Left (and of a certain ethnic group, of course).

    Repeating your initial misconceptions, only at greater length, and with more emotional incontinence, while ignoring my (very basic) point, does nothing to legitimize your "argument." You're shadowboxing here -- engaging with the demons of your fervid imagination, rather than the arguments right in front of you. Again, this is typical of the Far Left; they fail to comprehend the Right's actual arguments (which they have no answer for, anyway), and choose instead to engage with the caricatures of those arguments that their teevees spoon-feed to them. Sad.

    Again -- all races/ peoples/ cultures expand/ settle / invade when they get the chance. This is an (obviously true) observation about the real world, not a moral judgment. I have no "moral obligation" to accept your pathetic attempts to push White guilt on me. I'm merely noting that you would never attempt to push Turk guilt on the Turks, or North African guilt on the descendants of the Barbary pirates, or Jew guilt on those responsible for the Bolshevik revolution Everyone has the right to self-defense. Of course, your rabid, unreasoning anti-White hatred leads you to convince yourself that somehow every other race does, but Whites do not.

    But keep on rationalizing your hatred, at even greater length. Go right ahead. It's clear that the process somehow paradoxically raises your badly misplaced sense of your own virtuousness to even greater heights. Have fun.

    You’re merely repeating (at greater, yet more ignorant, length) your original nonsensical “argument.” Clearly, you lack even the minimal reasoning ability required to comprehend its internal inconsistency — or perhaps have somehow convinced yourself that you can make up for it by doubling down on your dogmatic, ignorant, hate-filled race denialism. Sad.

    Wrong. Just because you claim that my arguments are wrong, does not make them wrong. I suspect you know this too, and that’s why you avoid digging too deep into the actual substance of my arguments and instead prefer to flit around the edges and try to throw out non-sequitur responses

    Your basic argument is the same, despite its meaningless rhetorical flourishes. Part of it seems to be the typically Far Left inability to distinguish between normative and positive statements; and of course part of it stems from your (wholly misplaced) confidence in your own “intelligence” and “morality.”

    Instead of simply flinging accusations; please clearly show why my rhetoric is meaningless instead of merely claiming that it is meaningless. You are trying to accuse me of being unable to distinguish between normative and positive statements because you are either unable to or unwilling to discuss the merits of my arguments themselves. I stand behind my arguments and have no problem discussing their merits with you.

    “you think I am making an argument specifically against the west (typical WN victimization complex), when its obvious that I am making an abstract moral argument…bla bla bla more pilpul and sophistry at greater and more pointless length”

    1. At whom is your argument directed, hmm? Do you understand what the term “deliberately disingenuous” means? I thought not.

    Its pretty obvious that I’m making an abstract moral argument. You just use the terms pilpul (your favorite word) and sophistry in order to try to ad hom my argument instead of actually discussing it:

    Your low comprehension abilities has made it so that you think I am making an argument specifically against the west (typical WN victimization complex), when its obvious that I am making an abstract moral argument which incidentally involves the west. My point entirely revolves around the importance of moral consistency. Alt-righters/WN who insist on being proud of the west’s extensive colonial history while simultaneously crying about how unfair mass immigration is are no different than a serial thief who complains about other people stealing from him. This is a very simple point, I don’t understand how you continue to misunderstand this. Your response trying to debunk this was completely off the mark since you didn’t understand the argument that was being made in the first place.

    The point I made is very clear. There is hardly any ambiguity here; and any people that are reading our exchange can clearly see what I wrote as well. If you choose to embrace moral consistency or reject it, its up to you; but that doesnt change the validity of my point. Do you realize how ridiculous it looks when alt-righters/WN condone the west’s centuries of violent conquests and destruction of other races and cultures but then turn around and preach about the sanctity of racial/cultural preservation and how every race deserves a homeland? That is called hypocrisy my friend. You are perfectly free to disregard my call for greater moral consistency on the far-right; but its at your own peril not mine.

    2. So you support open borders for China? India? Israel?

    If china, india or israel had colonized the entire world (in the process destroying countless cultures and indigenous peoples) just so that they could exploit the land for their own benefit then yes, I would not feel bad seeing these countries end up having to deal with the unexpected/unforeseen consequence of their immoral actions. That being said, I have never advocated open borders, rather I only made the neutral observation that the west is being unexpectedly haunted by its colonial past. I don’t think that anybody really debates the validity of this observation. Even you don’t debate it, that’s why you continue to tiptoe around it instead of taking that argument head on. Anyways, you seem to have this odd notion that I am only applying my logic to the west when really I hold everyone to these same standards. If any culture/civilization/etc decides to act in an immoral fashion and then ends up getting screwed over because of it later on, then they fully deserve what happens to them. I don’t care if they’re white, black, yellow etc etc.

    3. You seem remarkably determined to maintain your “abstract moral argument” in such a rarefied state of abstraction that it is entirely free-floating, and not grounded in anything even approaching empirical support. This sort of worthless, transparently-false imitation of actual logical argumentation is typical of the Far Left (and of a certain ethnic group, of course).

    Repeating your initial misconceptions, only at greater length, and with more emotional incontinence, while ignoring my (very basic) point, does nothing to legitimize your “argument.” You’re shadowboxing here — engaging with the demons of your fervid imagination, rather than the arguments right in front of you. Again, this is typical of the Far Left; they fail to comprehend the Right’s actual arguments (which they have no answer for, anyway), and choose instead to engage with the caricatures of those arguments that their teevees spoon-feed to them. Sad.

    You accuse me of pilpul and making empty arguments, but isn’t this exactly what you’re doing? I’m imploring you to discuss the topic itself, but you seem to be fixated on arguing about how I am arguing instead.

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  • You’re merely repeating (at greater, yet more ignorant, length) your original nonsensical “argument.” Clearly, you lack even the minimal reasoning ability required to comprehend its internal inconsistency — or perhaps have somehow convinced yourself that you can make up for it by doubling down on your dogmatic, ignorant, hate-filled race denialism. Sad.

    Your basic argument is the same, despite its meaningless rhetorical flourishes. Part of it seems to be the typically Far Left inability to distinguish between normative and positive statements; and of course part of it stems from your (wholly misplaced) confidence in your own “intelligence” and “morality.”

    “you think I am making an argument specifically against the west (typical WN victimization complex), when its obvious that I am making an abstract moral argument…bla bla bla more pilpul and sophistry at greater and more pointless length”

    1. At whom is your argument directed, hmm? Do you understand what the term “deliberately disingenuous” means? I thought not.

    2. So you support open borders for China? India? Israel?

    3. You seem remarkably determined to maintain your “abstract moral argument” in such a rarefied state of abstraction that it is entirely free-floating, and not grounded in anything even approaching empirical support. This sort of worthless, transparently-false imitation of actual logical argumentation is typical of the Far Left (and of a certain ethnic group, of course).

    Repeating your initial misconceptions, only at greater length, and with more emotional incontinence, while ignoring my (very basic) point, does nothing to legitimize your “argument.” You’re shadowboxing here — engaging with the demons of your fervid imagination, rather than the arguments right in front of you. Again, this is typical of the Far Left; they fail to comprehend the Right’s actual arguments (which they have no answer for, anyway), and choose instead to engage with the caricatures of those arguments that their teevees spoon-feed to them. Sad.

    Again — all races/ peoples/ cultures expand/ settle / invade when they get the chance. This is an (obviously true) observation about the real world, not a moral judgment. I have no “moral obligation” to accept your pathetic attempts to push White guilt on me. I’m merely noting that you would never attempt to push Turk guilt on the Turks, or North African guilt on the descendants of the Barbary pirates, or Jew guilt on those responsible for the Bolshevik revolution Everyone has the right to self-defense. Of course, your rabid, unreasoning anti-White hatred leads you to convince yourself that somehow every other race does, but Whites do not.

    But keep on rationalizing your hatred, at even greater length. Go right ahead. It’s clear that the process somehow paradoxically raises your badly misplaced sense of your own virtuousness to even greater heights. Have fun.

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    • Replies: @GammaRay

    You’re merely repeating (at greater, yet more ignorant, length) your original nonsensical “argument.” Clearly, you lack even the minimal reasoning ability required to comprehend its internal inconsistency — or perhaps have somehow convinced yourself that you can make up for it by doubling down on your dogmatic, ignorant, hate-filled race denialism. Sad.
     
    Wrong. Just because you claim that my arguments are wrong, does not make them wrong. I suspect you know this too, and that's why you avoid digging too deep into the actual substance of my arguments and instead prefer to flit around the edges and try to throw out non-sequitur responses

    Your basic argument is the same, despite its meaningless rhetorical flourishes. Part of it seems to be the typically Far Left inability to distinguish between normative and positive statements; and of course part of it stems from your (wholly misplaced) confidence in your own “intelligence” and “morality.”
     
    Instead of simply flinging accusations; please clearly show why my rhetoric is meaningless instead of merely claiming that it is meaningless. You are trying to accuse me of being unable to distinguish between normative and positive statements because you are either unable to or unwilling to discuss the merits of my arguments themselves. I stand behind my arguments and have no problem discussing their merits with you.


    “you think I am making an argument specifically against the west (typical WN victimization complex), when its obvious that I am making an abstract moral argument…bla bla bla more pilpul and sophistry at greater and more pointless length”
     
    1. At whom is your argument directed, hmm? Do you understand what the term “deliberately disingenuous” means? I thought not.
     
    Its pretty obvious that I'm making an abstract moral argument. You just use the terms pilpul (your favorite word) and sophistry in order to try to ad hom my argument instead of actually discussing it:

    Your low comprehension abilities has made it so that you think I am making an argument specifically against the west (typical WN victimization complex), when its obvious that I am making an abstract moral argument which incidentally involves the west. My point entirely revolves around the importance of moral consistency. Alt-righters/WN who insist on being proud of the west’s extensive colonial history while simultaneously crying about how unfair mass immigration is are no different than a serial thief who complains about other people stealing from him. This is a very simple point, I don’t understand how you continue to misunderstand this. Your response trying to debunk this was completely off the mark since you didn’t understand the argument that was being made in the first place.
     
    The point I made is very clear. There is hardly any ambiguity here; and any people that are reading our exchange can clearly see what I wrote as well. If you choose to embrace moral consistency or reject it, its up to you; but that doesnt change the validity of my point. Do you realize how ridiculous it looks when alt-righters/WN condone the west's centuries of violent conquests and destruction of other races and cultures but then turn around and preach about the sanctity of racial/cultural preservation and how every race deserves a homeland? That is called hypocrisy my friend. You are perfectly free to disregard my call for greater moral consistency on the far-right; but its at your own peril not mine.

    2. So you support open borders for China? India? Israel?
     
    If china, india or israel had colonized the entire world (in the process destroying countless cultures and indigenous peoples) just so that they could exploit the land for their own benefit then yes, I would not feel bad seeing these countries end up having to deal with the unexpected/unforeseen consequence of their immoral actions. That being said, I have never advocated open borders, rather I only made the neutral observation that the west is being unexpectedly haunted by its colonial past. I don't think that anybody really debates the validity of this observation. Even you don't debate it, that's why you continue to tiptoe around it instead of taking that argument head on. Anyways, you seem to have this odd notion that I am only applying my logic to the west when really I hold everyone to these same standards. If any culture/civilization/etc decides to act in an immoral fashion and then ends up getting screwed over because of it later on, then they fully deserve what happens to them. I don't care if they're white, black, yellow etc etc.

    3. You seem remarkably determined to maintain your “abstract moral argument” in such a rarefied state of abstraction that it is entirely free-floating, and not grounded in anything even approaching empirical support. This sort of worthless, transparently-false imitation of actual logical argumentation is typical of the Far Left (and of a certain ethnic group, of course).

    Repeating your initial misconceptions, only at greater length, and with more emotional incontinence, while ignoring my (very basic) point, does nothing to legitimize your “argument.” You’re shadowboxing here — engaging with the demons of your fervid imagination, rather than the arguments right in front of you. Again, this is typical of the Far Left; they fail to comprehend the Right’s actual arguments (which they have no answer for, anyway), and choose instead to engage with the caricatures of those arguments that their teevees spoon-feed to them. Sad.
     
    You accuse me of pilpul and making empty arguments, but isn't this exactly what you're doing? I'm imploring you to discuss the topic itself, but you seem to be fixated on arguing about how I am arguing instead.
    , @GammaRay

    Again — all races/ peoples/ cultures expand/ settle / invade when they get the chance. This is an (obviously true) observation about the real world, not a moral judgment. I have no “moral obligation” to accept your pathetic attempts to push White guilt on me. I’m merely noting that you would never attempt to push Turk guilt on the Turks, or North African guilt on the descendants of the Barbary pirates, or Jew guilt on those responsible for the Bolshevik revolution Everyone has the right to self-defense. Of course, your rabid, unreasoning anti-White hatred leads you to convince yourself that somehow every other race does, but Whites do not.
     
    Not necessarily. What you're saying is patently untrue. If this was true, then why did the ming dynasty willingly destroy their (massive) fleet and then voluntarily close their borders to the outside world? They had the chance to expand and settle, but they chose not to. Not all cultures value expansion and colonialism as much as the west does. The ming dynasty is only one example; I'm sure there are plenty of other examples where others cultures had the opportunity to expand/invade but instead chose not to. You are only pushing this erroneous line of reasoning because it is convenient for you and it exonerates the west; however its a piece of reasoning that doesn't hold up so well when put to the test. You need to understand, not every culture is as warlike, domineering and expansive as western european culture is; different cultures simply have different prerogatives.

    White nationalists always want to brag about how intrepid, brave and adventurous white people are compared to other races; well...with that kind of mindset, global colonization is what you get. White nationalists always want to brag about how unique and different white people are when it comes to anything positive about white people, but then all the sudden whenever anything negative comes up white nationalists always try to backtrack and act as if everybody possesses equal capacity for doing bad things. That's pretty disingenuous if you ask me

    Also I find it funny that you want to claim the law of the jungle with regards to the ubiquity of colonialism and how that precludes any kind of universal moral judgment being passed against it, yet in the same paragraph you suddenly want to talk about how everyone has the right to self defense. So basically you are trying to imply that universal notions of morality do not exist when it comes to colonization, but then suddenly universal notions of morality exist when it comes to self defense IE cultural preservation? If according to you my assertion that colonialism is immoral is baseless, then just what are you basing your own idea of universal right to self defense on? You're basically trying to selectively enforce morality at this point, and you only talk about "rights" when it benefits you, instead of being morally consistent and applying notions of morality equally no matter what.

    The turks, north africans or jews were not the primary topic of discussion in this particular conversation; hence that is why nobody discusses their culpability or blame. If we were specifically discussing the turks, north africans or jews within that sort of context then I would have no problem objectively discussing their potential culpability. We are discussing the culpability of the west with regards to colonization because it is tangential, not because of any personal biases. That being said, I am personally biased against hypocrites, but this is a bias that transcends race and color lines.

    But keep on rationalizing your hatred, at even greater length. Go right ahead. It’s clear that the process somehow paradoxically raises your badly misplaced sense of your own virtuousness to even greater heights. Have fun.
     
    Not really, Im as cool as a cucumber. And yes, I am having fun dissecting your arguments and verbally jousting with you
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  • @James Forrestal
    You may congratulate yourself on your imagined skills at mental telepathy now. Clearly, you are projecting your baseless (yet amusing) "moral" self-righteousness onto your perceived enemies, and the objects of your mindless hatred.

    Clearly, I must spell it out at greater length (yet more simply) for one of your massive cognitive abilities.

    1. Let's start with your faith-based belief (apparently swallowed whole from your teevee, your sociology professor, or both) that White Europeans are the only people ever to migrate, settle, colonize, or conquer. This is touching in its naïveté, but rather strange. Do you somehow imagine that all non-Whites grew up out of the soil, in the countries where they now predominate, and never did any of these things? Even stranger. Educate yourself. When did Greece finally break free from Ottoman imperialism? How many millions of White Europeans were enslaved by the Ottoman Turks? And where did the Turks come from originally, anyway? How did they end up taking over Anatolia? Were they invited?

    2. One can judge this (or not) in moral terms, but it's a fact. Europeans were simply better at this than other peoples were for the last few hundred years.

    3. Replacement level non-White immigration is not an "unintended consequence," of course. it is an intended consequence of specific policies adopted by an alien, hostile elite. What, you think all of these people just fell from the sky one day? Teleported themselves from the Third World to White countries? Please.

    Now of course, you're going to start whining again "B-b-but that's different! I'm not making the usual anti-White argument!" Not quite, but the embedded assumption of your "argument" is still that it is somehow morally illegitimate for Whites to oppose their "inevitable" displacement. Whether you regard European colonialism, or Ottoman colonialism, or expansion by any other group as good, bad, or neutral is beside the point. You're still making a moral argument, and one that is based on the same assumptions, just with some additional irrelevant pilpul added.

    "You are trying to claim that I am making the argument that everyone should try to amend for their own colonial misdeeds, when in fact I was never making that argument to begin with. The only arguments I was making was one of being morally consistent, and also that of dealing with unintended consequences."

    Nope. There is no significant difference between "everyone should try to amend for their own colonial misdeeds" and "It's morally illegitimate for Whites (and White only) to oppose their own displacement because 'moral consistency' and bla bla bla."

    One more time -- I'm pointing out that your pretended "moral consistency" is merely a threadbare conceit laid over the top of the typical "Whitey is uniquely evil, and dem poor innocent POCs dindu nuffin" blabber. Pathetic. Keep trying, though. It's kinda comical, actually.

    Once again you have shown your inability to comprehend simple arguments. I will very plainly put forth my original logic again:

    1.the importance of being internally consistent about your views regarding your own cultural/racial survival and your attitudes towards colonial actions carried out by the group which you identify yourself with.

    The alt-right/white nationalists are entitled to make practical arguments against immigration, but they are not entitled to make moral/ethical arguments against immigration unless they first ditch the whole “we whites were colonists and we did nothing wrong” shtick; it is completely hypocritical and it also sounds completely absurd, hollow and unconvincing to anyone who doesn’t share their views.

    The alt-right/white nationalists have the right to make moral/ethical arguments against mass immigration and multiculturalism only if they first amend their current apologetic stance regarding the western colonization of the world. If they are unable or unwilling to do this, then any arguments they make regarding the morality/ethicalness of mass immigration to the west will not be taken seriously by anybody. Who values the word of a hypocrite? Nobody

    Your low comprehension abilities has made it so that you think I am making an argument specifically against the west (typical WN victimization complex), when its obvious that I am making an abstract moral argument which incidentally involves the west. My point entirely revolves around the importance of moral consistency. Alt-righters/WN who insist on being proud of the west’s extensive colonial history while simultaneously crying about how unfair mass immigration is are no different than a serial thief who complains about other people stealing from him. This is a very simple point, I don’t understand how you continue to misunderstand this. Your response trying to debunk this was completely off the mark since you didn’t understand the argument that was being made in the first place.

    3. Replacement level non-White immigration is not an “unintended consequence,” of course. it is an intended consequence of specific policies adopted by an alien, hostile elite. What, you think all of these people just fell from the sky one day? Teleported themselves from the Third World to White countries? Please.

    This doesn’t invalidate my original point:

    2.Practically speaking (all moral considerations aside), it strongly appears that the west has set itself up for disaster by inadvertently setting the stage for globalization, which in turn allowed mass-immigration to manifest by providing the technological and political framework necessary for it to happen in the first place. Had western colonization never happened then the rest of the world outside of europe would still be stuck in a timeless, relatively technologically unadvanced state. It was the west that brought the rest of the world into the modern age, kicking and screaming. Don’t forget that. And now it is the west that will inadvertently end up paying the price for it. Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind.

    You do realize that had the west never colonized the rest of the world, then there would be no globalization, and without globalization, there would be no multiculturalism or mass-immigration in the modern day west? The west set itself up by creating the conditions under which “replacement level non-White immigration” could occur in the first place. This is undeniable. Also why are you complaining about alien, hostile elites while simultaneously making apologetic arguments for western colonization, which was in effect the implementation of an alien, hostile elite over pretty much the entire non-western world?

    Nope. There is no significant difference between “everyone should try to amend for their own colonial misdeeds” and “It’s morally illegitimate for Whites (and White only) to oppose their own displacement because ‘moral consistency’ and bla bla bla.”

    I never said that whites are not allowed to oppose their own displacement. This is what I originally wrote:

    The alt-right/white nationalists are entitled to make practical arguments against immigration, but they are not entitled to make moral/ethical arguments against immigration unless they first ditch the whole “we whites were colonists and we did nothing wrong” shtick; it is completely hypocritical and it also sounds completely absurd, hollow and unconvincing to anyone who doesn’t share their views.

    Whites are perfectly entitled to make practical arguments against immigration; but its “morally illegitimate” for whites to make moral/ethical arguments against immigration if they still insist on condoning western colonization. If the alt-right/WN want to make a serious, ethical, principled stance against mass immigration then they need to make sure that their own attitudes regarding western colonization reflect this ethos as well. If they fail to do this then all of their moral/ethical arguments will ring hollow and be seen as unconvincing by everybody else. You only hurt yourself by being a hypocrite, keep that in mind. Unfortunately its a lesson that the alt-right/WN will never learn, you guys consistently act against your own best interests due to you all being unable to control your own intense hubris and racial/cultural chauvinism.

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  • @Daniel Chieh
    Oh please. The very fact that American-Chinese can't do anything related to the government without special permission might be a hint that the government doesn't consider them as "Chinese."

    But as my friend Spandrell said:


    Well as I often say, if you don’t get something, that’s a statement about the limits of your intellect rather than about the nature of the problem. If you don’t get something, the problem is with you, not with the issue. Go try and understand it, and then come back.
     
    The problem is with you. But there's no point to trying to make you understand your error - my contempt for the Alt-Right, such as it is, is due to familiarity. I've been in enough to know that you have a chronic issue of punching yourself in the face.

    So keep it up and toodles.

    Remember: Ignorance is your greatest strength.

    Triggered by your own dishonesty? That’s unfortuante. Just take a couple of deep breaths and try to calm down. I’m worried about your blood pressure here…

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  • @Yan Shen
    Well you obviously haven't read much of my commentary and have no idea who I am, since as someone who's been one of the staunchest advocates of HBD and race realism for at least the last 10 years, I'm shocked that you would accuse me of endorsing either the Blank Slate or Magic Dirt. To the contrary, I would argue that white nationalist types are better characterized as being proponents of Magic Dirt theory, since as I pointed out in my article they oftentimes invoke the same memes to explain East Asian academic success that blacks and Hispanics invoke to explain relative white American academic success.

    On the other hand, I can kinda sorta subscribe to the notion of the Proposition Nation. At a minimum, since non-Hispanic whites are only 61-62% of the overall population today, white nationalism narrowly construed really is one of those hopelessly pollyannish notions that has no real validity or chance at ever coming to fruition.

    By the way, it's also highly flawed to accuse me of Han racial supremacism. In fact my last article here argued for something very different, that based on HBD, I expected Western and Eastern societies to increasingly specialize in different areas.

    http://www.unz.com/article/iq-or-the-mathverbal-split/

    Regardless of whether or not HBD is valid, I do think there's a lot to be said for adopting the right cultural values and attitudes and basically working to maximize the most of what you're born with. You really can't ask for more than for each person to give their absolute best effort.

    This also has the additional plus that just in case the strong hereditarian position isn't quite as correct as we might assume it to be, you've put in the required work as well to get more output than what you might've expected under a strong HBD assumption.

    “I’m shocked that you would accuse me of endorsing either the Blank Slate or Magic Dirt”
    “it’s also highly flawed to accuse me of Han racial supremacism”

    I was exaggerating for effect (and using the term “supremacism” ironically, of course). Though the premise of this entire piece is based on promoting Chinese behavior (regardless of the relative contributions of genes and environment to that behavior) as “superior,” of course. (By comparing it to African/ Africanized behavioral norms)

    What you actually do is shift between perspectives as they are convenient to your goals. It is rather inconsistent, you must admit, to argue for a significant, even majority genetic component to human behavioral traits (HBD), while supporting The Narrative’s “proposition nation” and “diversity” tropes. Diversity + proximity = conflict. If the basis of that “diversity” of identity (and behavior) has a significant genetic basis, then the conflict is clearly irreconcilable.

    “On the other hand, I can kinda sorta subscribe to the notion of the Proposition Nation.”

    The term “nation-state” is not redundant. “Nation” is not a synonym for “country” or “state.” A nation is not a patch of ground, or lines on a map, or a piece of paper. It’s a people, with a common heritage and culture. Sure, it’s not geometry; there are no bright lines. There’s always a certain amount of mixing/ assimilation. But too much, and you destroy the nation.

    In short, the term “proposition nation” is not merely nonsensical; it’s self-contradictory.

    Do you believe that China is a “proposition nation?” Why or why not?

    “Regardless of whether or not HBD is valid, I do think there’s a lot to be said for adopting the right cultural values and attitudes and basically working to maximize the most of what you’re born with. You really can’t ask for more than for each person to give their absolute best effort.”

    Well, yeah. Of course.

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  • @James Forrestal
    "Interesting to extend your thought experiment of Disraeli as a kind of one man AIPAC (with some Jewish network substituted for Israel)"

    You're being excessively literally-minded here. I'm making a point with respect to identity. If you read Disraeli's own works, it's clear where his primary identity (and loyalty) lies. Yet he wanted to be accepted as "truly English" despite this, by intermittently adopting a transparently dishonest veneer of English identity. Our modern-day Zionist dual citizens do the same.

    I think, without returning pedantically to what I have previously said, that I would emphasise again his lack of anything much to be loyal to in a potentially conflictual way. There was no Zionist movement or great rescue mission for those in the Czar’s empire (as to whom, come to think of it, Disraeli would have shared the snobbery of assimilating German Jews). Test question: was Disraeli a proto-Zionist? I think his imagination was up to it but, when I Googled that question I found this which probably adds something to what we both know from distant memory:

    https://www.algemeiner.com/2017/02/27/jewish-identity-through-the-eyes-of-benjamin-disraeli/

    Cheers
    PS Note what it says about his attempting to dissuade the Rothschilds from identifying as Jews.

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  • @James Forrestal
    "They will see him as: “American-Chinese.”

    The reality is that people like us are in reality essentially the out-group everywhere."


    Of course culture matters as well. This is far more true of Japanese going back to Japan than it is of Chinese, actually. And of anyone of mixed race, of course.

    Though Yan Shen is being more accurate (honest?) than you, in giving the term, not as hyphenated, but as "American Born Chinese." There's a reason why "Chinese" is the noun, and "American Born" the modifier, after all. Race-denialism is doesn't really seem to have taken hold in China...

    Oh please. The very fact that American-Chinese can’t do anything related to the government without special permission might be a hint that the government doesn’t consider them as “Chinese.”

    But as my friend Spandrell said:

    Well as I often say, if you don’t get something, that’s a statement about the limits of your intellect rather than about the nature of the problem. If you don’t get something, the problem is with you, not with the issue. Go try and understand it, and then come back.

    The problem is with you. But there’s no point to trying to make you understand your error – my contempt for the Alt-Right, such as it is, is due to familiarity. I’ve been in enough to know that you have a chronic issue of punching yourself in the face.

    So keep it up and toodles.

    Remember: Ignorance is your greatest strength.

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    • Agree: GammaRay
    • Replies: @James Forrestal
    Triggered by your own dishonesty? That's unfortuante. Just take a couple of deep breaths and try to calm down. I'm worried about your blood pressure here...
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  • @GammaRay
    Like most alt-righters/white nationalists, you have strong pretensions of intellectualism but then when push comes to shove, you don't hesitate to display your own intellectual laziness. I clearly stated that I was not making any moral arguments against colonialism itself, but rather I was making these two separate arguments regarding colonialism:

    1.the importance of being internally consistent about your views regarding your own cultural/racial survival and your attitudes towards colonial actions carried out by the group which you identify yourself with.


    The alt-right/white nationalists are entitled to make practical arguments against immigration, but they are not entitled to make moral/ethical arguments against immigration unless they first ditch the whole “we whites were colonists and we did nothing wrong” shtick; it is completely hypocritical and it also sounds completely absurd, hollow and unconvincing to anyone who doesn’t share their views.
     
    The alt-right/white nationalists have the right to make moral/ethical arguments against mass immigration and multiculturalism only if they first amend their current apologetic stance regarding the western colonization of the world. If they are unable or unwilling to do this, then any arguments they make regarding the morality/ethicalness of mass immigration to the west will not be taken seriously by anybody. Who values the word of a hypocrite? Nobody

    2.Practically speaking (all moral considerations aside), it strongly appears that the west has set itself up for disaster by inadvertently setting the stage for globalization, which in turn allowed mass-immigration to manifest by providing the technological and political framework necessary for it to happen in the first place. Had western colonization never happened then the rest of the world outside of europe would still be stuck in a timeless, relatively technologically unadvanced state. It was the west that brought the rest of the world into the modern age, kicking and screaming. Don't forget that. And now it is the west that will inadvertently end up paying the price for it. Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind.

    You are free to re-read every word of my previous post. You obviously did not take the time to digest what I was saying, because if you did then it would be clear that your rebuttal is actually misplaced, and furthermore, you are trying to make a rhetorical point in response to an argument which I was never making in the first place. You are trying to claim that I am making the argument that everyone should try to amend for their own colonial misdeeds, when in fact I was never making that argument to begin with. The only arguments I was making was one of being morally consistent, and also that of dealing with unintended consequences. Your one liner drive by comment fails to debunk either of the arguments which I put forth. Nice try? You deserve an F for effort though ;) As I said before, most alt-righters/white nationalists lack the ability (willingness?) to really think about their political platform and ensure that it is based upon a logical and morally consistent foundation. Instead they base their arguments on raw emotions, indignation (and a LARGE dose of vitriolic racism) and then wonder why they are marginalized by the mainstream. LOL, keep cucking yourselves guys

    You may congratulate yourself on your imagined skills at mental telepathy now. Clearly, you are projecting your baseless (yet amusing) “moral” self-righteousness onto your perceived enemies, and the objects of your mindless hatred.

    Clearly, I must spell it out at greater length (yet more simply) for one of your massive cognitive abilities.

    1. Let’s start with your faith-based belief (apparently swallowed whole from your teevee, your sociology professor, or both) that White Europeans are the only people ever to migrate, settle, colonize, or conquer. This is touching in its naïveté, but rather strange. Do you somehow imagine that all non-Whites grew up out of the soil, in the countries where they now predominate, and never did any of these things? Even stranger. Educate yourself. When did Greece finally break free from Ottoman imperialism? How many millions of White Europeans were enslaved by the Ottoman Turks? And where did the Turks come from originally, anyway? How did they end up taking over Anatolia? Were they invited?

    2. One can judge this (or not) in moral terms, but it’s a fact. Europeans were simply better at this than other peoples were for the last few hundred years.

    3. Replacement level non-White immigration is not an “unintended consequence,” of course. it is an intended consequence of specific policies adopted by an alien, hostile elite. What, you think all of these people just fell from the sky one day? Teleported themselves from the Third World to White countries? Please.

    Now of course, you’re going to start whining again “B-b-but that’s different! I’m not making the usual anti-White argument!” Not quite, but the embedded assumption of your “argument” is still that it is somehow morally illegitimate for Whites to oppose their “inevitable” displacement. Whether you regard European colonialism, or Ottoman colonialism, or expansion by any other group as good, bad, or neutral is beside the point. You’re still making a moral argument, and one that is based on the same assumptions, just with some additional irrelevant pilpul added.

    “You are trying to claim that I am making the argument that everyone should try to amend for their own colonial misdeeds, when in fact I was never making that argument to begin with. The only arguments I was making was one of being morally consistent, and also that of dealing with unintended consequences.”

    Nope. There is no significant difference between “everyone should try to amend for their own colonial misdeeds” and “It’s morally illegitimate for Whites (and White only) to oppose their own displacement because ‘moral consistency’ and bla bla bla.”

    One more time — I’m pointing out that your pretended “moral consistency” is merely a threadbare conceit laid over the top of the typical “Whitey is uniquely evil, and dem poor innocent POCs dindu nuffin” blabber. Pathetic. Keep trying, though. It’s kinda comical, actually.

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    • Replies: @GammaRay
    Once again you have shown your inability to comprehend simple arguments. I will very plainly put forth my original logic again:

    1.the importance of being internally consistent about your views regarding your own cultural/racial survival and your attitudes towards colonial actions carried out by the group which you identify yourself with.

    The alt-right/white nationalists are entitled to make practical arguments against immigration, but they are not entitled to make moral/ethical arguments against immigration unless they first ditch the whole “we whites were colonists and we did nothing wrong” shtick; it is completely hypocritical and it also sounds completely absurd, hollow and unconvincing to anyone who doesn’t share their views.

    The alt-right/white nationalists have the right to make moral/ethical arguments against mass immigration and multiculturalism only if they first amend their current apologetic stance regarding the western colonization of the world. If they are unable or unwilling to do this, then any arguments they make regarding the morality/ethicalness of mass immigration to the west will not be taken seriously by anybody. Who values the word of a hypocrite? Nobody
     
    Your low comprehension abilities has made it so that you think I am making an argument specifically against the west (typical WN victimization complex), when its obvious that I am making an abstract moral argument which incidentally involves the west. My point entirely revolves around the importance of moral consistency. Alt-righters/WN who insist on being proud of the west's extensive colonial history while simultaneously crying about how unfair mass immigration is are no different than a serial thief who complains about other people stealing from him. This is a very simple point, I don't understand how you continue to misunderstand this. Your response trying to debunk this was completely off the mark since you didn't understand the argument that was being made in the first place.

    3. Replacement level non-White immigration is not an “unintended consequence,” of course. it is an intended consequence of specific policies adopted by an alien, hostile elite. What, you think all of these people just fell from the sky one day? Teleported themselves from the Third World to White countries? Please.
     
    This doesn't invalidate my original point:

    2.Practically speaking (all moral considerations aside), it strongly appears that the west has set itself up for disaster by inadvertently setting the stage for globalization, which in turn allowed mass-immigration to manifest by providing the technological and political framework necessary for it to happen in the first place. Had western colonization never happened then the rest of the world outside of europe would still be stuck in a timeless, relatively technologically unadvanced state. It was the west that brought the rest of the world into the modern age, kicking and screaming. Don’t forget that. And now it is the west that will inadvertently end up paying the price for it. Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind.
     
    You do realize that had the west never colonized the rest of the world, then there would be no globalization, and without globalization, there would be no multiculturalism or mass-immigration in the modern day west? The west set itself up by creating the conditions under which "replacement level non-White immigration" could occur in the first place. This is undeniable. Also why are you complaining about alien, hostile elites while simultaneously making apologetic arguments for western colonization, which was in effect the implementation of an alien, hostile elite over pretty much the entire non-western world?

    Nope. There is no significant difference between “everyone should try to amend for their own colonial misdeeds” and “It’s morally illegitimate for Whites (and White only) to oppose their own displacement because ‘moral consistency’ and bla bla bla.”
     
    I never said that whites are not allowed to oppose their own displacement. This is what I originally wrote:

    The alt-right/white nationalists are entitled to make practical arguments against immigration, but they are not entitled to make moral/ethical arguments against immigration unless they first ditch the whole “we whites were colonists and we did nothing wrong” shtick; it is completely hypocritical and it also sounds completely absurd, hollow and unconvincing to anyone who doesn’t share their views.
     
    Whites are perfectly entitled to make practical arguments against immigration; but its "morally illegitimate" for whites to make moral/ethical arguments against immigration if they still insist on condoning western colonization. If the alt-right/WN want to make a serious, ethical, principled stance against mass immigration then they need to make sure that their own attitudes regarding western colonization reflect this ethos as well. If they fail to do this then all of their moral/ethical arguments will ring hollow and be seen as unconvincing by everybody else. You only hurt yourself by being a hypocrite, keep that in mind. Unfortunately its a lesson that the alt-right/WN will never learn, you guys consistently act against your own best interests due to you all being unable to control your own intense hubris and racial/cultural chauvinism.
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  • anonymous[739] • Disclaimer says:
    @Lugash

    What happened next has become the stuff of internet legend. As the Social Justice Jihadis became increasingly more disruptive, they were suddenly confronted by a bespectacled gentleman most likely of Chinese or Korean descent, who authoritatively declared, “Hey, hey, hey, hey. This is library.” A somewhat uncomfortable silence ensued and thus one of the clearest dispensations of 21st century Confucian wisdom came to pass. Although the incident was undoubtedly a source of amusement to many, to me the surreal confrontation highlighted not only just how deeply rotten modern day American culture had become, but also the clear extent to which East Asian and non-East Asian cultural values had diverged in the 21st century.
     
    You're dramatically over-inflating what the bespectacled gentleman did. He wasn't a sage passing on Confucian wisdom, he was a naive foreigner who thought the protestors had mistakenly entered the library. You can see the social justice hive mind trying to figure out if it's OK to attack this PoC. A white person who spoke up would have gotten harassed or beaten.

    I'm sure some of his more woke foreign student friends clued him in on what he did that night.

    “A white person who spoke up would have gotten harassed or beaten.”

    I respond:

    Nah, don’t be a wimp.

    I’m in my mid 50s – I have stood up to these idiot Lib Left protesters my entire life when I was 7 years old in 1968 Chicago it was a daily battle every single day!

    I recommend White guys and gals do what I did:

    Become a 7th and 8th grade inner city public school teacher. That toughened my up. Learn to give as well as take.

    Humor is a great weapon – a sword to be used against our enemies.

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  • @Daniel Chieh
    They will see him as: "American-Chinese."

    The reality is that people like us are in reality essentially the out-group everywhere.

    “They will see him as: “American-Chinese.”

    The reality is that people like us are in reality essentially the out-group everywhere.”

    Of course culture matters as well. This is far more true of Japanese going back to Japan than it is of Chinese, actually. And of anyone of mixed race, of course.

    Though Yan Shen is being more accurate (honest?) than you, in giving the term, not as hyphenated, but as “American Born Chinese.” There’s a reason why “Chinese” is the noun, and “American Born” the modifier, after all. Race-denialism is doesn’t really seem to have taken hold in China…

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    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Oh please. The very fact that American-Chinese can't do anything related to the government without special permission might be a hint that the government doesn't consider them as "Chinese."

    But as my friend Spandrell said:


    Well as I often say, if you don’t get something, that’s a statement about the limits of your intellect rather than about the nature of the problem. If you don’t get something, the problem is with you, not with the issue. Go try and understand it, and then come back.
     
    The problem is with you. But there's no point to trying to make you understand your error - my contempt for the Alt-Right, such as it is, is due to familiarity. I've been in enough to know that you have a chronic issue of punching yourself in the face.

    So keep it up and toodles.

    Remember: Ignorance is your greatest strength.
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  • anonymous[739] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jameson
    Your argument makes sense for people from wealthy countries. For instance, no top 25% German, Irishman, Japanese, or Frenchman comes to the United States. Not even from second tier countries like Chile or Argentina.

    This is because, there are plenty of opportunities for the top 25%, even the top 40%. However, in very poor countries, you need to be in the top 0.1% for your intelligence to truly set you apart. Why? Because in those countries, nepotism is rife. You could be in the top 5%, but that is not what matters. Your parents connections matter. Your ethnic group matters. Your religion matters. What region of the country you're from matters.

    Meritocracy does not work in those countries. That's why moderate to low IQ idiots govern those countries. So only an American or someone from a wealthy country would assume that just because you're talented, you'll be given opportunities in your country.

    That's why a talented Indian will come to the US and run circles around WASPs. In India, they may have been in the top 2%, but they had limited connections and there just isn't enough opportunity. In the US, all you need to do is study hard and get over a 1450 on the SATs and you're overall set. At least that's been my experience. And if the 2nd quartile Indians and Chinese are better than most WASPs, then consider me an India optimist.

    *disclaimer: all of these numbers are pulled out of thin air, like most numbers in the comments

    Do you honestly think that the USA in our year 2018 is “meritocracy”?

    Do you think the Hollywood film industry is open to any and all and the most talented writers, directors and actors are promoted completely on merit – that’s why we get such outstanding movies like the Feminist remake of Ghostbusters or the fine, uplifting movies of George Clooney, Quentin Tarantino and Harvey Weinstein.

    I studied and got the high SAT, GMAT score attended supposedly top 20 undergraduate and MBA programs (Vanderbilt BA, Stern NYU MBA). Over 90% of my Stern MBA course material was/is completely useless in the real world, 3 years later I was working at minimum wage at Kinkos.

    American colleges and universities tend to be extremely hostile to White heterosexual midwestern men, Southerners etc – the career placement offices in particularly are dominated by women who are extremely hostile to men especially White Gentile/Christian men.

    And Hollywood, the television & entertainment industries are dominated by an ethnic mafia notorious for ethnic nepotism and hatred for all things

    White
    Southern
    Midwestern
    Christian

    Do you think that Rolling Stone Magazines smear piece accusing University of Virginia Fraternity members of gang rape pledge initiations – do you think that had anything to do with any “meritocracy”?

    How about PC Cartoonists Doonesbury’s Gary Trudeau going along with this Rolling Stone rape hoax or Trudeau taking the side of Algerian Islamist terrorists who slaughtered French Cartoonists Charlie Hebo?

    I kind of have to wonder…..

    What planet you live on.

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  • @Yan Shen
    http://www.8asians.com/2013/04/30/the-abc-and-fob-divide/

    I think you vastly overstate the case for worldwide ethnic Chinese solidarity. Even in the US, there's oftentimes a clear social divide between ABCs and FOBs.

    Must be just evil, “racist” Whitey, then. Do Malysians see Chinese settlers as “just another Malaysian?” Do Vietnamese see them as “just another Vietnamese?”

    As far as the alleged nonexistence of overseas Chinese solidarity — are they as unified, and as disdainful of the interests of their host countries, as the sayanim? Perhaps not. But that’s a pretty high bar, of course. Don’t see too many espionage case involving China where the culprit is of other than Chinese descent, now do ya?

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  • @Wizard of Oz
    Interesting to extend your thought experiment of Disraeli as a kind of one man AIPAC (with some Jewish network substituted for Israel). But I don't think it is easy to make it work. He was a highly imaginative novelist, something too of a charmer and fantasist. Think of the way Lloyd George was an outsider able to fascinate people.

    Remembering that he was an Anglican who had achieved success in life as a conventional upper middle class Englishman whose base for glory was the greatness of Britain not the network of Jewry I would guess that Jewishness was part of his fantasy life and inspiration as a storyteller rather than an AIPAC type divided loyalty.

    As to the Opium Wars I always thought the Scottish Jardine Mathieson were more significant than the Sassoons. As to the Sassoons it may be important to remember that they were Sephardi (anyway not Ashkenazi, and very exotic before they became English gentlemen) and - I am just skipping through memories - English enough to produce Siegfried Sassoon the WW1 officer and poet.

    “Interesting to extend your thought experiment of Disraeli as a kind of one man AIPAC (with some Jewish network substituted for Israel)”

    You’re being excessively literally-minded here. I’m making a point with respect to identity. If you read Disraeli’s own works, it’s clear where his primary identity (and loyalty) lies. Yet he wanted to be accepted as “truly English” despite this, by intermittently adopting a transparently dishonest veneer of English identity. Our modern-day Zionist dual citizens do the same.

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    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    I think, without returning pedantically to what I have previously said, that I would emphasise again his lack of anything much to be loyal to in a potentially conflictual way. There was no Zionist movement or great rescue mission for those in the Czar's empire (as to whom, come to think of it, Disraeli would have shared the snobbery of assimilating German Jews). Test question: was Disraeli a proto-Zionist? I think his imagination was up to it but, when I Googled that question I found this which probably adds something to what we both know from distant memory:
    https://www.algemeiner.com/2017/02/27/jewish-identity-through-the-eyes-of-benjamin-disraeli/

    Cheers
    PS Note what it says about his attempting to dissuade the Rothschilds from identifying as Jews.

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  • @Daniel Chieh

    How many “Israelis” were there in 1900?

     

    Plenty enough. The Jewish have been extremely capable of surviving as an identity without being either in the majority or having territory. In that sense, AaronB has much to teach.

    Your pathetic failure to give the (obviously correct) answer of “zero” is duly noted.

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  • @Ju Ahn
    Yes, Wikipedia is always right. I suggest you review the source quoted by wikipedia whenever something questionable appears there.

    Similar policy exists for the US,
    I suggest you review our national immigration policy before criticizing other countries.

    "Green Card for Immigrant Investors
    U.S. immigration law allows certain foreign nationals who are employment-based immigrants to become lawful permanent residents (get a Green Card). One employment-based (EB) “preference immigrant” category includes foreign nationals who have invested or are actively in the process of investing $1 million (or $500,000 in targeted employment areas) in a new commercial enterprise that will benefit the U.S. economy and create at least 10 full-time positions for qualifying employees. These foreign nationals are also called “EB-5 immigrant investors” because they are in the employment-based fifth preference visa category. See the EB-5 Immigrant Investor Program for more information about this visa category."
     
    https://www.uscis.gov/greencard/investors

    "The following persons are eligible to apply for permanent residency

    - Those who are adults by Korea's civil law and have stayed in Korea with F-2 Status for more than five years ,and ① have financial capacity to support themselves and their family ② have attainments such as being well-behaved and understanding Korean traditions enough to stay permanently in Korea, or
    - Those who have invested more than 500,000 USD in Korea and have stayed in Korea with D-8 Status for more than three years, while contributing to creating employment opportunities for Korean nationals (more than 5 Koreans), or
    - Those who have invested more than 5,000,000 USD in Korea and whose acquisition of Permanent Residency is deemed proper by the Justice Minister, or
    - Those who have special contributions to Korea and whose special contributions are recognized by the Justice Minister"
     
    https://web.archive.org/web/20071212091356/http://www.dh.go.kr/open_content/english/goverment/09_04_08.htm

    Pretty sure policies for both nations are similar. Apart from the fact that US liberals also want to grant citizenship to illegals through DACA and other pathways to citizenship programs. Other exceptions include refugee programs and such.

    And perhaps we could find some sort of… empirical, real world method of comparing the immigration policy of your country with that of mine, hmm? When it comes down to it, that’s what matters, not words. What percentage of Korean citizens are naturalized? Naturalized, and of non-Korean (let alone non-Asian) descent? You’re flailing here.

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  • TT says:
    @The Negro
    The attitude of this Yan Shen fellow stinks! He mocks those who care about social justice in America as “Social justice jihadis!” He did so perhaps thinking the UNZ Review is restricted only to the Fox News Neocons, and disgruntled whites angry about losing their $30/p.h jobs that were relocated to China, but are ironically taking their anger at their poor blacks and Hispanic neighbours, who earn minimum wage at fast food restaurants and blueberry fields.

    It is not true that China, all of a sudden, became rich and prosperous because its people are smart and industrious, for it remained poor and backward for centuries, despite having people with those attributes. But it was enriched at the expense of the U.S., and this wasn’t accident but deliberate. For over 20 years, America was forced to follow a disastrous policy that treated China as “The most favoured nation”, whereby most of American industry was relocated and outsourced to china, and what is left in the country was destroyed because it could not compete with cheap product made with cheap labour, and without any environmental regulations. And while China admirably took advantage of the enormous opportunities that were sent her way and built its economy, America was hijacked and plunged into one disastrous war after another: Afghanistan, Iraq, LIBYA, Yemen, Somalia, Syria and so on. But what is rotten in America is not just the disastrous wars in foreign lands, but the fundamentals of the nation’s infrastructure, politics, economy and justice system are all in shambles. Nowhere that is apparent than the broken justice system, where the rule of law and the due process are long abandoned. For instance, if you belong to certain communities, you could be sent to prison for 30 years on fabricated Secret Evidence that neither you nor your attorney are allowed to see. And this Yan Shen guy has the insolence to complain about not being allowed to attend ivy league school because he has good grades?!

    The worst thing about Trump presidency is that he left the swamp in Washington untouched, but only turned the American people against one another, while he is busy doing the bidding of his masters. The truth of the matter is that that which enriched China and bankrupted America was no normal process, and certainly wasn’t the nature of things. So, as soon as the criminals are pushed aside, and that abnormal process is reversed, America will stand on its feet once again.
    Having said all of that, still China’s ascendency will stall quickly because the Chinese have just eliminated the most innovative aspect of their political system: The peaceful transfer of power from one leader to anther in every 10 years. But now that Xi jinping is anointed as the king forever, his cronies will feel secure. As a result, nepotism and corruption will be rife. And like every other power in history, china will slip, and the gravity will pull her down. That is inventible. But even before that, China’s influence in the world affairs will be very limited by culture, because the Chinese are closed and are busy with one thing, and one thing alone: Accumulating things(wealth).

    However, the weakest link of China that would forever cripple not only her influence, but her potential as well is China’s indifference to the welfare of others. I am not saying this just to put down China, but I will substantiate my point by appealing to the facts on the ground. For instance, 700,000 Rohingya Muslims of Burma were slaughtered, raped, and burned alive at China’s doorsteps. China is the top dog in that area, and the most powerful country in the whole region. So, the question is: Did China save even one single Rohingya family? Nope! When you are that uncaring to the rest of the humanity, you are not going to get very far, no matter how many material things you accumulate. Thus, indifference to the welfare of others is China’s Achilles heel!

    Having said all of that, still China’s ascendency will stall quickly because the Chinese have just eliminated the most innovative aspect of their political system: The peaceful transfer of power from one leader to anther in every 10 years. But now that Xi jinping is anointed as the king forever, his cronies will feel secure. As a result, nepotism and corruption will be rife. And like every other power in history, china will slip, and the gravity will pull her down. That is inventible.

    Why not read up abit before ranting old wrong thing after these have been much discussed in Mr Geoffrey Roberts articles.

    http://www.unz.com/article/chinese-president-xi-jinping-who-is-he/

    China’s constitution declares that the country is ruled “under the leadership” of the Communist Party of China (CPC).[194] As China is a de facto one-party state, the General Secretary (party leader) holds ultimate power and authority over state and government serving as the paramount leader.[195] The electoral system is pyramidal. Local People’s Congresses are directly elected, and higher levels of People’s Congresses up to the National People’s Congress (NPC) are indirectly elected by the People’s Congress of the level immediately below.[196] The political system is decentralized, and provincial and sub-provincial leaders have a significant amount of autonomy.[197] Another eight political parties, have representatives in the NPC and the Chinese People’s Political Consultative Conference (CPPCC).[198] China supports the Leninist principle of “democratic centralism”,[199]

    90M of elites party member elected their representatives, gradually up to Politburo of 6~ central party Politburo members that are proven over decades of performance.

    The President is the titular head of state, elected by the National People’s Congress. The Premier is the head of government, presiding over the State Council composed of four vice premiers and the heads of ministries and commissions. The incumbent president is Xi Jinping, who is also the General Secretary of the Communist Party of China and the Chairman of the Central Military Commission, making him China’s paramount leader. The incumbent premier is Li Keqiang, who is also a senior member of the CPC Politburo Standing Committee, China’s de facto top decision-making body.[201][135]

    Now you understand, Prez is only ceremonial. Whether permanent or two terms doesn’t matter. Party GenSec & Military Chairman are the true leadership power, that all Prez hold traditionally, they have no term limitation, but subjected to party members election.

    With China reaching its 40yrs achievement & crossing to next phase of 100yrs grand plan, a Prez of final term is a sitting duck (same as Potus). So party wanted Prez Xi to see through the China dream for longer time. Even over 90++% Chinese & dissidents like Ai weiwei has no complaint when interviewed, yet the West & now the negro are busy shrieking Emperor long lives!!!

    But even before that, China’s influence in the world affairs will be very limited by culture, because the Chinese are closed and are busy with one thing, and one thing alone: Accumulating things(wealth).However, the weakest link of China that would forever cripple not only her influence, but her potential as well is China’s indifference to the welfare of others.

    Without economic, there is no world influence, no strong military. Without strong military, there is no influence in geopolitical, but opium wars.

    Now that it has arrived at 2nd GDP with 3rd Military power, its building up Deep water Navy for power projection at own affordability without dragging economy down. Soft power has just start to roll out with Chinese civilization, Confucianism, etc. but US with its 5eyes lackeys Oz is screaming China influence to control our countries.

    When China is only UNSC permanent members with no aircraft carriers for power projection in last 50yrs, people like you are crying China is weak & never care about defending others. Neighbors stole its SCS islands.

    When China build up its power projection force to protect its sprawling global business & defend its allies, people scream China is going hedgmon!!!

    For instance, 700,000 Rohingya Muslims of Burma were slaughtered, raped, and burned alive at China’s doorsteps. China is the top dog in that area, and the most powerful country in the whole region. So, the question is: Did China save even one single Rohingya family? Nope! When you are that uncaring to the rest of the humanity, you are not going to get very far, no matter how many material things you accumulate. Thus, indifference to the welfare of others is China’s Achilles heel!

    Haven’t you notice and wonder why a sudden intense outpouring of entire Western msm 24/7 reporting since last year …with the USNato countries and their allied Muslim countries(Saudi and Turkey) gone hysteria overdrive in calling for UN immediate intervention, claiming the worst Genocide, Ethnic Cleansing of century?

    They have never show single concern for these people, since 1960′s, why not they accept Rohingya, stop slaughtering Yemenis, Syrians, etc.

    US CIA, UK, France, EU, Turkey, Saudi arabia are the team of evils behind the whole Myanmar Rohingya crisis propaganda to block China Obor node & energy securing alternative path at West Myanmar Rakkhaine. Large oil & gas offshore is found & pipe to China. Rohingya are illegal migrants Bengalis from Bangladesh brought in by British to attack & colonize Myanmar in 1950′s. How can Myanmar accept them as minority?

    Ironically these hands behind Rohingya crisis are also the same committing naked genocide & atrocities in Yemen, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Africa…in the name of “humanity”.

    Read these:
    1. Why US &Saudi is backing Rohingya suddenly

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/why-u-s-and-saudi-arabia-back-rohingya-in-myanmar/5613015


    2. Who is responsible for the direct killing

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/who-is-responsible-for-ethnic-cleansing-in-myanmar/5611486

    3. Rohingya pawns of US & Saudi.

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-rohingya-of-myanmar-pawns-in-an-anglo-chinese-proxy-war-fought-by-saudi-jihadists/5607605

    Who is feeding Rohingya now, helping Myanmar to defend against FUKUS attack. Who else, only China. Read http://www.globaltimes.cn
    bottom all history what China did, more than all Muslim countries combined.

    India Assam is facing similar Rohingya akar Bengali- Bangladesh Chittagong illegal migrants in 10millions. India is more violent towards Muslims, have you heard anything from West msm? No, India is FUKUS best ally.

    These are what CIA want, drive the Muslims to hate China, like Soviet case, using Wahabism jihadists to attack China globally hence keeping Fukus hedgmon.

    Thank you for helping CIA to keep American forever great & murderous, slaying all your brethens while blaming China & Russia.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Anon

    Again, no one is denying Chinese aren’t numerous people with large disapora in many countries. Their achievement comes from sheer numbers rather than indivudal excellence.
     
    Then India should be equivalent to China in your logic by now, but look at that shithole done by its ruling caste. It will take West puff up India 100yrs to reach China level at existing growth condition unchange or 40% annual GDP growth to keep pace. But China growth will be exponential once it break the threshold of technology self sufficient in a decade.

    And Indonesia, Vietnam, Philippine, Pakistan, iran, ME, africa, Latin America, Brazil…all should perform better than Germany, France, UK, SK in your foolish logic.

    What pathetic arguments you can come out with repeatedly, that's what i had been observing in most Samsung senior management too, short sighted, puff up confident build on self delusion & unfounded ground, except chairman Lee is exceptional far sighted.

    No doubt number is great adv, but Germany with merely 80M is world power house, exporting 1.5T high tech annually equivalent to US &:double of Japan.

    Even smaller popn SK is so impressive in its ascending, look how its replacing aging look Japan consumer products with great design & quality that smash up Japan white good industry.

    Maybe if you weren’t Han chauvinist you’ll be able to distinguish between the two. But you’re basically regurgitating rhetoric of communist China which oppresses the freedoms of their own citizens and defend even North Korea in some respects.
     
    You are trying to be Korean chuvinist but fall short from it in getting debunk on all your delusion burst like a balloon. Korean should be proud of their remarkable achievements, but not exceedingly to become deluded in hubris. Otherwise Lotte is the good example for SK, when Chinese tourist boycott visiting.

    China leaders have such great foresight to "oppress" its nation to survive the West onslaught, building the Great Fire Wall to block out color revolution & subversion by FB, Whatsapp & Google. You ignorant one, see how many countries are under such infiltration, including yours & mine whose leaders too spineless to resist like China, Russia, Syria, Iran, NK, Cuba, Venezuela & Philippine now.

    Go talk to every Chinese see what's their view on their leaders & future vs West & SK in suppression. A nation of 1.4B IQ 105ave who have overwhelming faith with their great visionary leaders, we shall let time tell the truth.

    And you should flush out all your West sewage feed to you since born about korea war done cruelly to Korean people, with enigma too for residues. All koreans should be gratitude to China for defending NK with millions of soldiers life & blood.

    Here's enigma for your polluted view:

    Who is the real evil demon? NK or US?
    globalresearch.ca/north-korea-versus-the-united-states-who-are-the-demons/28342

    Achievement of NK in healthcare, education…that WTO Secretary remarked an envy to the US.

    globalresearch.ca/north-korea-their-health-system-sucks-do-they-have-schools-and-hospitals-in-america-weve-got-medicare/5604293

    globalresearch.ca/the-social-and-economic-achievements-of-north-korea/5594234

    Wish NK & SK can reunion in peace and free from US evil empire 50yrs slavery.

    Mansudae Grand Monument
    https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8749/16649315544_191425092c_b.jpg

    Koryo Museum Entrance
    https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8767/16649314244_6b0777744b_b.jpg

    Wonsan City
    https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8743/17085561229_f72bcf36f6_b.jpg

    Pyongyang City
    https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8757/16649315904_3dab014a61_b.jpg

    http://www.todaynews24h.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/If-North-Korea-does-not-suffer-the-worlds-embargo-then-North-Korea-will-likely-be-the-power.jpg

    http://2northkorea.com/sites/default/files/field/image/13-north-korea.jpg

    https://www.bradtguides.com/media/wysiwyg/destinations/asia/North-Korea/International_Friendship_Exhibition_Uwe-Brodrecht_wikicommons.jpg

    Majon beach
    https://www.bradtguides.com/media/wysiwyg/destinations/asia/North-Korea/P-North-Korea-Majon-Beach-HilaryBradt.jpg
    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Yan Shen
    What does that even mean?

    Assuming a normal distribution with mean 106 and SD of 15 we'd expect about 16% of Chinese to have IQs below 91 and 7% to have IQs below 84. 7% of 1380 million comes out to almost 97 million.

    16% of whites have IQs lower than that of the average African American. Please learn how to think distributionally...

    You are crazy if you believe that average IQ of Chinese is 1 point lower than that of average African American IQ. The gap in academic and real life performance is so enormous that the null hypothesis of equal intelligence between those two groups is probably infinitesimally small.

    Mr. Shen,

    I just posted a comment in another thread that will explain where I am coming from. Follow the link below for more details and figures:

    res,

    could you, please, do me a favor and calculate the correlation between the population/nation Met allele frequencies of Mr. Piffer’s following paper [...] and Afrosapiens‘s IQ data instead of Lynn’s IQ data, because I believe the correlation will be even stronger and will explain Piffer’s contradictory finding: “Particularly interesting is the relatively low frequency of COMT in East Asian populations (range 0.22–0.30), which contrasts with their reported higher IQ (105).” – p. 169
    [...]
    ["]Thus, the global correlation between IQ and Met allele frequency is r = 0.579 and highly statistically significant (n = 38; P < 0.001). This supports the prediction that populations with higher Met allele frequency have higher IQ, similarly to the correlation observed at the individual level.["]
    [...]
    I agree with Afrosapiens that Lynn has overestimated East Asian intelligence, and I believe that COMT Met is still the best genetic predictor of intelligence, even though some researchers like Emil Kirkegaard disagree

    http://www.unz.com/jthompson/piffers-equation-further-updated/#comment-2297648

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Anon[558] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ju Ahn
    Again, no one is denying Chinese aren't numerous people with large disapora in many countries. Their achievement comes from sheer numbers rather than indivudal excellence.

    You seem to be very confused about the concept of large numbers and averages. China has large population of 1.4 billion, so it's not surprising their overall GDP is high and excel in some industries concerning space programs and others. I don't believe this as an emanation of their individual excellence.

    Maybe if you weren't Han chauvinist you'll be able to distinguish between the two. But you're basically regurgitating rhetoric of communist China which oppresses the freedoms of their own citizens and defend even North Korea in some respects.

    Again, no one is denying Chinese aren’t numerous people with large disapora in many countries. Their achievement comes from sheer numbers rather than indivudal excellence.

    Then India should be equivalent to China in your logic by now, but look at that shithole done by its ruling caste. It will take West puff up India 100yrs to reach China level at existing growth condition unchange or 40% annual GDP growth to keep pace. But China growth will be exponential once it break the threshold of technology self sufficient in a decade.

    And Indonesia, Vietnam, Philippine, Pakistan, iran, ME, africa, Latin America, Brazil…all should perform better than Germany, France, UK, SK in your foolish logic.

    What pathetic arguments you can come out with repeatedly, that’s what i had been observing in most Samsung senior management too, short sighted, puff up confident build on self delusion & unfounded ground, except chairman Lee is exceptional far sighted.

    No doubt number is great adv, but Germany with merely 80M is world power house, exporting 1.5T high tech annually equivalent to US &:double of Japan.

    Even smaller popn SK is so impressive in its ascending, look how its replacing aging look Japan consumer products with great design & quality that smash up Japan white good industry.

    Maybe if you weren’t Han chauvinist you’ll be able to distinguish between the two. But you’re basically regurgitating rhetoric of communist China which oppresses the freedoms of their own citizens and defend even North Korea in some respects.

    You are trying to be Korean chuvinist but fall short from it in getting debunk on all your delusion burst like a balloon. Korean should be proud of their remarkable achievements, but not exceedingly to become deluded in hubris. Otherwise Lotte is the good example for SK, when Chinese tourist boycott visiting.

    China leaders have such great foresight to “oppress” its nation to survive the West onslaught, building the Great Fire Wall to block out color revolution & subversion by FB, Whatsapp & Google. You ignorant one, see how many countries are under such infiltration, including yours & mine whose leaders too spineless to resist like China, Russia, Syria, Iran, NK, Cuba, Venezuela & Philippine now.

    Go talk to every Chinese see what’s their view on their leaders & future vs West & SK in suppression. A nation of 1.4B IQ 105ave who have overwhelming faith with their great visionary leaders, we shall let time tell the truth.

    And you should flush out all your West sewage feed to you since born about korea war done cruelly to Korean people, with enigma too for residues. All koreans should be gratitude to China for defending NK with millions of soldiers life & blood.

    Here’s enigma for your polluted view:

    Who is the real evil demon? NK or US?
    globalresearch.ca/north-korea-versus-the-united-states-who-are-the-demons/28342

    Achievement of NK in healthcare, education…that WTO Secretary remarked an envy to the US.

    globalresearch.ca/north-korea-their-health-system-sucks-do-they-have-schools-and-hospitals-in-america-weve-got-medicare/5604293

    globalresearch.ca/the-social-and-economic-achievements-of-north-korea/5594234

    Wish NK & SK can reunion in peace and free from US evil empire 50yrs slavery.

    Mansudae Grand Monument

    Koryo Museum Entrance

    Wonsan City

    Pyongyang City

    Majon beach

    Read More
    • Replies: @TT
    Who is the real evil demon? NK or US?

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/north-korea-versus-the-united-states-who-are-the-demons/28342

    Achievement of NK in healthcare, education…

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/north-korea-their-health-system-sucks-do-they-have-schools-and-hospitals-in-america-weve-got-medicare/5604293

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-social-and-economic-achievements-of-north-korea/5594234
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Whites have long been in the majority in America and, frankly, don’t want the US to become China, Vietnam, or Japan.

    You think China, Vietnam, or Japan wants to become White?

    Well, they don’t.

    People don’t want to hand over their country wholesale to another ethnic group or race.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Ju Ahn
    Again, no one is denying Chinese aren't numerous people with large disapora in many countries. Their achievement comes from sheer numbers rather than indivudal excellence.

    You seem to be very confused about the concept of large numbers and averages. China has large population of 1.4 billion, so it's not surprising their overall GDP is high and excel in some industries concerning space programs and others. I don't believe this as an emanation of their individual excellence.

    Maybe if you weren't Han chauvinist you'll be able to distinguish between the two. But you're basically regurgitating rhetoric of communist China which oppresses the freedoms of their own citizens and defend even North Korea in some respects.

    Well obviously as an American I have no real dog in this fight, but it certainly is interesting seeing the Han chauvinists going at it with the Korean chauvinists…

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Anon
    You are straying off in your argument, getting personal with foolish ad homein attacks.

    I am not from China, but still i will try to clear your attack on China.

    No one is denying Chinese are numerous people just like Indians. Therefore countries like China and US can afford to take their own space program while other developed countries such as Sweden cannot.
     
    So you agreed there are PLENTY of rich Chinese in hundreds of millions that can afford sending their underperforming children to US uni.

    Space program is more than numerous population, you need top caliber talents as it involved too many complex technical abilities.

    Japan/Indonesia pop >Russia. EU popn >US. Africans>Russia & US. Yet they can't do space program, why?

    If SK & NK united, one day they might as NK has exhibited their respectable technical ability. SK has to buy their AIP submarine while NK is developing on submarine with SLM submerge launch missiles.

    Ukraine with only 30~40M, is capabled in aerospace program & wide array of military & heavy industry.

    HARD FACT: China’s nominal GDP per capita < $10,000 (less than Botswana), At least some top tier Chinese graduates study in the U.S.
     
    No one is arguing with you on China GDP per cap. We are saying due to uneven distribution, those can afford US study is simply plenty, which you agreed. So let's not rant further on that.

    Plus, you kept claiming west doesn’t have best of China. However, all ethnic Chinese Nobel laureates in physics studied and/or conducted research in the west. Many IMO contestants from China are also studying or have studied in U.S. universities. In addition, there are many notable mathematicians of Chinese descent in the west such as Terence Tao and Yitang Zhang. So, your claim that west isn’t getting the best and brightest of China is simply false.
     
    This is not my claimed, its from Chinese Ivy graduate horse mouth. Nobel prize is quite political isn't it? Be a dissidents of West's enemy will land you a Nobel peace prize.

    In fact, many top Chinese scientists don't even published their papers. Eg last year one Chinese material engineer published a new finding on his blog, was immediately taken down because that technology is applicable in stealth fighter.

    There are no doubt some top tier are study in US, esp non technical like economics, but not as Tyrion claimed only the Best can study in US.

    Re-emphasized: If Spore 1st class honor graduate can excel in US ivy with scholarship/research/fellowship grant, yet China 4th teir can get Spore uni 1st Class, certainly their 2nd tier is good enough to perform in US ivy with many Nobel prize & awards.

    And how do you know there aren't many better one than Terence Tao & Yitang graduate from Beida & Qinghua, working quietly in China, developing aerospace, Quantum, AI, light water pebble nuclear, miniature nuclear, nuke submarine, aircraft carrier & magnetism propeling sys, 6th Gen fighter jet, hypersonic missiles, jet engines, heavy rockets, satellites, next gen supercomputer, super conducter, super metallurgy,… ?

    Eg. The chief engineer of China first nuclear submarine never return home since 30s, only reappeared recently at 80s to get his medal rewards from Prez Xi. How US can know his science contribution for Nobel Prize.

    I do not get the Chinese fascination about complex characters in language
     
    Why do you rant on this? Im trying to reveal the history of Korean writing that many won't aware, never say its more superior, even though it is, obviously.

    I never mentioned Chinese is capable fighter, they might in certain history, why you go into such foolish argument. I only remarked Korean is such tough fighter race that even much powerful Hans empire find difficult to subjugate historically. Its a compliment to Koreans isn't it?

    You also say Koreans and Japanese copied Chinese customs. By the same logic, Chinese are copying Europeans costumes and science/technology today.
     
    Its a fact that ancient Japan sent their best people to work in China court & learn their superior customs. Korean too. But Koreans are now trying to distort the truth to say Chinese copy their Great Korean civilization 大韩文化 when their better economy make them drown in hubris. Btw, your flag is a Chinese Bagua 八卦 isn't it?

    Chinese never denied they copy European costumes in wearing suits, they openly called it 西装(Western suits). Do Koreans call their traditional costumes 汉服(Hans Dress)? No, they change the name to 韩服(Korean Dress).

    Actually Chinese people are infamous for this kind of behavior such as industrial spies and their lack of respect for intellectual properties. Why are Chinese people producing so many counterfeit Louis Vuitton and Chanel products today if their culture is so great?
     
    You are now making yourself a great laughing stock for doing such ridiculous unwarranted attack.

    Firstly, Korea is world most renowned largest counterfeit mecca for luxury goods & industrial products, don't pretend you are so ignorant.

    Korean could perfect the skill that even most experienced French socialite can't differentiate LV /Hermes counterfeit, only when they sent for repair to discover. Chinese has much to catch up. My sisters only like Korean counterfeit because almost perfect.

    Every country does industrial espionage, with US the apex thru 5Eyes. There was a report on France found that everytime US could publish their new discovery just days before their announcement. So they tried only use paper work without electronic message for top research, and it work.

    Wikileaks revealed US NSA hacked into Huawei to get tonnes of material. Some Western countries even patented China FSR technology after asking for tender info to their surprise. They learned the hard way, the West is even more treacherous & untrustworthy.

    Japan catch up by much copying of West technology after WWII, which US purposely permit to keep Japan as counter force to Soviet & China. Korean also did that but very backward, but its now so good in copying that some suppliers are worry to sell high tech equipment to SK as they could duplicate it so fast.

    As US allies, whatever Japan & Korea did are tolerated. Even dog & cat eating, only China get single out in West msm smearing, while Korea, Taiwan, Thailand, India, …are all spared. No?

    China will be stupid not to take that proven path everyone adopted for fast catch up. But West & Japan are blocking all high tech access to China. US is always threatening to cutoff supply of monopoly high tech, eg Intel cpu that China used for supercomputer. Within one year, China developed its own indigenous cpu & roll out another world No1 supercomputer.

    Why not China design from beginning? If its commercially available, why waste so much resources to dev and produce only few thousands for own usage.

    Just yesterday US declared to block ZTE from all US products esp Qualcomm & Broadcom cpu in attempt to obstruct China lead in 5G & telcom. Soon China will have to roll out its own indigenous telcom chip sets, but its huge domestic market can easily justify the dev cost.

    How many Nobel prize Korean get? How many true innovation? You know better your limitation, even you have complete free access to West technology that China don't.

    When the China rurals get develop, we will see how many pts Chinese IQ & SAT scores increase over SK & Japan.

    Btw, Spore Chinese diaspora is 75% of popn with 25% Malay/Indian under performing minority, so the Chinese is actually performing higher than their existing No1 scores.

    Malaysia with 75% Malay/Indian & 25% Chinese, has very low score. Indonesia with even fewer Chinese ethnic score much lower. Vietnam is doing well because if you visit, you will find most are Chinese ethnic migrants.

    And minority Chinese ethnic in every SEAsia is controlling 70% wealth, leading most businesses, professional positions & financial, except political power. This is no coincident.

    Again, no one is denying Chinese aren’t numerous people with large disapora in many countries. Their achievement comes from sheer numbers rather than indivudal excellence.

    You seem to be very confused about the concept of large numbers and averages. China has large population of 1.4 billion, so it’s not surprising their overall GDP is high and excel in some industries concerning space programs and others. I don’t believe this as an emanation of their individual excellence.

    Maybe if you weren’t Han chauvinist you’ll be able to distinguish between the two. But you’re basically regurgitating rhetoric of communist China which oppresses the freedoms of their own citizens and defend even North Korea in some respects.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Yan Shen
    Well obviously as an American I have no real dog in this fight, but it certainly is interesting seeing the Han chauvinists going at it with the Korean chauvinists...
    , @Anon

    Again, no one is denying Chinese aren’t numerous people with large disapora in many countries. Their achievement comes from sheer numbers rather than indivudal excellence.
     
    Then India should be equivalent to China in your logic by now, but look at that shithole done by its ruling caste. It will take West puff up India 100yrs to reach China level at existing growth condition unchange or 40% annual GDP growth to keep pace. But China growth will be exponential once it break the threshold of technology self sufficient in a decade.

    And Indonesia, Vietnam, Philippine, Pakistan, iran, ME, africa, Latin America, Brazil…all should perform better than Germany, France, UK, SK in your foolish logic.

    What pathetic arguments you can come out with repeatedly, that's what i had been observing in most Samsung senior management too, short sighted, puff up confident build on self delusion & unfounded ground, except chairman Lee is exceptional far sighted.

    No doubt number is great adv, but Germany with merely 80M is world power house, exporting 1.5T high tech annually equivalent to US &:double of Japan.

    Even smaller popn SK is so impressive in its ascending, look how its replacing aging look Japan consumer products with great design & quality that smash up Japan white good industry.

    Maybe if you weren’t Han chauvinist you’ll be able to distinguish between the two. But you’re basically regurgitating rhetoric of communist China which oppresses the freedoms of their own citizens and defend even North Korea in some respects.
     
    You are trying to be Korean chuvinist but fall short from it in getting debunk on all your delusion burst like a balloon. Korean should be proud of their remarkable achievements, but not exceedingly to become deluded in hubris. Otherwise Lotte is the good example for SK, when Chinese tourist boycott visiting.

    China leaders have such great foresight to "oppress" its nation to survive the West onslaught, building the Great Fire Wall to block out color revolution & subversion by FB, Whatsapp & Google. You ignorant one, see how many countries are under such infiltration, including yours & mine whose leaders too spineless to resist like China, Russia, Syria, Iran, NK, Cuba, Venezuela & Philippine now.

    Go talk to every Chinese see what's their view on their leaders & future vs West & SK in suppression. A nation of 1.4B IQ 105ave who have overwhelming faith with their great visionary leaders, we shall let time tell the truth.

    And you should flush out all your West sewage feed to you since born about korea war done cruelly to Korean people, with enigma too for residues. All koreans should be gratitude to China for defending NK with millions of soldiers life & blood.

    Here's enigma for your polluted view:

    Who is the real evil demon? NK or US?
    globalresearch.ca/north-korea-versus-the-united-states-who-are-the-demons/28342

    Achievement of NK in healthcare, education…that WTO Secretary remarked an envy to the US.

    globalresearch.ca/north-korea-their-health-system-sucks-do-they-have-schools-and-hospitals-in-america-weve-got-medicare/5604293

    globalresearch.ca/the-social-and-economic-achievements-of-north-korea/5594234

    Wish NK & SK can reunion in peace and free from US evil empire 50yrs slavery.

    Mansudae Grand Monument
    https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8749/16649315544_191425092c_b.jpg

    Koryo Museum Entrance
    https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8767/16649314244_6b0777744b_b.jpg

    Wonsan City
    https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8743/17085561229_f72bcf36f6_b.jpg

    Pyongyang City
    https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8757/16649315904_3dab014a61_b.jpg

    http://www.todaynews24h.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/If-North-Korea-does-not-suffer-the-worlds-embargo-then-North-Korea-will-likely-be-the-power.jpg

    http://2northkorea.com/sites/default/files/field/image/13-north-korea.jpg

    https://www.bradtguides.com/media/wysiwyg/destinations/asia/North-Korea/International_Friendship_Exhibition_Uwe-Brodrecht_wikicommons.jpg

    Majon beach
    https://www.bradtguides.com/media/wysiwyg/destinations/asia/North-Korea/P-North-Korea-Majon-Beach-HilaryBradt.jpg
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Anon[558] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ju Ahn
    No one is denying Chinese are numerous people just like Indians. Therefore countries like China and US can afford to take their own space program while other developed countries such as Sweden cannot. However, it is also true that GDP per capita for China is lower than some of the African nations as Tyrion 2 has pointed out. Their GDP per capita (nominal) is still less than $10,000 which is not too great with many of their population still living in poverty line.

    Plus, you kept claiming west doesn't have best of China. However, all ethnic Chinese Nobel laureates in physics studied and/or conducted research in the west. Many IMO contestants from China are also studying or have studied in U.S. universities. In addition, there are many notable mathematicians of Chinese descent in the west such as Terence Tao and Yitang Zhang. So, your claim that west isn't getting the best and brightest of China is simply false.

    You seem to be confused what hard fact is so I'll put it in boldface. HARD FACT: China's nominal GDP per capita < $10,000 (less than Botswana), At least some top tier Chinese graduates study in the U.S.

    I do not get the Chinese fascination about complex characters in language. Language is supposed to get meanings across easily and effectively, but complex characters aren't good that purpose. If complex characters were so great, why are Chinese themselves simplifying their language nowadays as opposed to retaining traditional characters as practiced in Taiwan.

    Plus, your numerous Han Chinese army were often defeated by northern Manchus from time to time despite being vastly superior in numbers. Why did China's 1 million army routinely defeated by northern barbarian fighters from Manchu and Mongolian army numbering less than 100,000 if Chinese were such able fighters. From this I can only conclude that Han Chinese were very feeble fighters compare to northern barbarians since they were subjugated by northern tribes for good portion of their history. [Qing Dynasty (by Machus), Yuan (by Mongols), Jin (controlled northern half of China)]

    You also say Koreans and Japanese copied Chinese customs. By the same logic, Chinese are copying Europeans costumes and science/technology today. Actually Chinese people are infamous for this kind of behavior such as industrial spies and their lack of respect for intellectual properties. Why are Chinese people producing so many counterfeit Louis Vuitton and Chanel products today if their culture is so great?

    You are straying off in your argument, getting personal with foolish ad homein attacks.

    I am not from China, but still i will try to clear your attack on China.

    No one is denying Chinese are numerous people just like Indians. Therefore countries like China and US can afford to take their own space program while other developed countries such as Sweden cannot.

    So you agreed there are PLENTY of rich Chinese in hundreds of millions that can afford sending their underperforming children to US uni.

    Space program is more than numerous population, you need top caliber talents as it involved too many complex technical abilities.

    Japan/Indonesia pop >Russia. EU popn >US. Africans>Russia & US. Yet they can’t do space program, why?

    If SK & NK united, one day they might as NK has exhibited their respectable technical ability. SK has to buy their AIP submarine while NK is developing on submarine with SLM submerge launch missiles.

    Ukraine with only 30~40M, is capabled in aerospace program & wide array of military & heavy industry.

    HARD FACT: China’s nominal GDP per capita < $10,000 (less than Botswana), At least some top tier Chinese graduates study in the U.S.

    No one is arguing with you on China GDP per cap. We are saying due to uneven distribution, those can afford US study is simply plenty, which you agreed. So let’s not rant further on that.

    Plus, you kept claiming west doesn’t have best of China. However, all ethnic Chinese Nobel laureates in physics studied and/or conducted research in the west. Many IMO contestants from China are also studying or have studied in U.S. universities. In addition, there are many notable mathematicians of Chinese descent in the west such as Terence Tao and Yitang Zhang. So, your claim that west isn’t getting the best and brightest of China is simply false.

    This is not my claimed, its from Chinese Ivy graduate horse mouth. Nobel prize is quite political isn’t it? Be a dissidents of West’s enemy will land you a Nobel peace prize.

    In fact, many top Chinese scientists don’t even published their papers. Eg last year one Chinese material engineer published a new finding on his blog, was immediately taken down because that technology is applicable in stealth fighter.

    There are no doubt some top tier are study in US, esp non technical like economics, but not as Tyrion claimed only the Best can study in US.

    Re-emphasized: If Spore 1st class honor graduate can excel in US ivy with scholarship/research/fellowship grant, yet China 4th teir can get Spore uni 1st Class, certainly their 2nd tier is good enough to perform in US ivy with many Nobel prize & awards.

    And how do you know there aren’t many better one than Terence Tao & Yitang graduate from Beida & Qinghua, working quietly in China, developing aerospace, Quantum, AI, light water pebble nuclear, miniature nuclear, nuke submarine, aircraft carrier & magnetism propeling sys, 6th Gen fighter jet, hypersonic missiles, jet engines, heavy rockets, satellites, next gen supercomputer, super conducter, super metallurgy,… ?

    Eg. The chief engineer of China first nuclear submarine never return home since 30s, only reappeared recently at 80s to get his medal rewards from Prez Xi. How US can know his science contribution for Nobel Prize.

    I do not get the Chinese fascination about complex characters in language

    Why do you rant on this? Im trying to reveal the history of Korean writing that many won’t aware, never say its more superior, even though it is, obviously.

    I never mentioned Chinese is capable fighter, they might in certain history, why you go into such foolish argument. I only remarked Korean is such tough fighter race that even much powerful Hans empire find difficult to subjugate historically. Its a compliment to Koreans isn’t it?

    You also say Koreans and Japanese copied Chinese customs. By the same logic, Chinese are copying Europeans costumes and science/technology today.

    Its a fact that ancient Japan sent their best people to work in China court & learn their superior customs. Korean too. But Koreans are now trying to distort the truth to say Chinese copy their Great Korean civilization 大韩文化 when their better economy make them drown in hubris. Btw, your flag is a Chinese Bagua 八卦 isn’t it?

    Chinese never denied they copy European costumes in wearing suits, they openly called it 西装(Western suits). Do Koreans call their traditional costumes 汉服(Hans Dress)? No, they change the name to 韩服(Korean Dress).

    Actually Chinese people are infamous for this kind of behavior such as industrial spies and their lack of respect for intellectual properties. Why are Chinese people producing so many counterfeit Louis Vuitton and Chanel products today if their culture is so great?

    You are now making yourself a great laughing stock for doing such ridiculous unwarranted attack.

    Firstly, Korea is world most renowned largest counterfeit mecca for luxury goods & industrial products, don’t pretend you are so ignorant.

    Korean could perfect the skill that even most experienced French socialite can’t differentiate LV /Hermes counterfeit, only when they sent for repair to discover. Chinese has much to catch up. My sisters only like Korean counterfeit because almost perfect.

    Every country does industrial espionage, with US the apex thru 5Eyes. There was a report on France found that everytime US could publish their new discovery just days before their announcement. So they tried only use paper work without electronic message for top research, and it work.

    Wikileaks revealed US NSA hacked into Huawei to get tonnes of material. Some Western countries even patented China FSR technology after asking for tender info to their surprise. They learned the hard way, the West is even more treacherous & untrustworthy.

    Japan catch up by much copying of West technology after WWII, which US purposely permit to keep Japan as counter force to Soviet & China. Korean also did that but very backward, but its now so good in copying that some suppliers are worry to sell high tech equipment to SK as they could duplicate it so fast.

    As US allies, whatever Japan & Korea did are tolerated. Even dog & cat eating, only China get single out in West msm smearing, while Korea, Taiwan, Thailand, India, …are all spared. No?

    China will be stupid not to take that proven path everyone adopted for fast catch up. But West & Japan are blocking all high tech access to China. US is always threatening to cutoff supply of monopoly high tech, eg Intel cpu that China used for supercomputer. Within one year, China developed its own indigenous cpu & roll out another world No1 supercomputer.

    Why not China design from beginning? If its commercially available, why waste so much resources to dev and produce only few thousands for own usage.

    Just yesterday US declared to block ZTE from all US products esp Qualcomm & Broadcom cpu in attempt to obstruct China lead in 5G & telcom. Soon China will have to roll out its own indigenous telcom chip sets, but its huge domestic market can easily justify the dev cost.

    How many Nobel prize Korean get? How many true innovation? You know better your limitation, even you have complete free access to West technology that China don’t.

    When the China rurals get develop, we will see how many pts Chinese IQ & SAT scores increase over SK & Japan.

    Btw, Spore Chinese diaspora is 75% of popn with 25% Malay/Indian under performing minority, so the Chinese is actually performing higher than their existing No1 scores.

    Malaysia with 75% Malay/Indian & 25% Chinese, has very low score. Indonesia with even fewer Chinese ethnic score much lower. Vietnam is doing well because if you visit, you will find most are Chinese ethnic migrants.

    And minority Chinese ethnic in every SEAsia is controlling 70% wealth, leading most businesses, professional positions & financial, except political power. This is no coincident.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Ju Ahn
    Again, no one is denying Chinese aren't numerous people with large disapora in many countries. Their achievement comes from sheer numbers rather than indivudal excellence.

    You seem to be very confused about the concept of large numbers and averages. China has large population of 1.4 billion, so it's not surprising their overall GDP is high and excel in some industries concerning space programs and others. I don't believe this as an emanation of their individual excellence.

    Maybe if you weren't Han chauvinist you'll be able to distinguish between the two. But you're basically regurgitating rhetoric of communist China which oppresses the freedoms of their own citizens and defend even North Korea in some respects.

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @AaronB
    Very good point about language, Daniel. One of the reasons the Japanese are so poor at English is because they believe fluency would damage their ability to navigate the emotional subtleties of their own culture.

    I believe also that written Chinese characters were considered to have artistic and even sacred qualities - for instance scraps of paper with Chinese characters were collected and burned, and not just thrown in the trash, iirc, and an entire art, calligraphy, was spawned. Certainly the presence of Chinese calligraphy everywhere in traditional Chinese villages lent a pleasingly artistic air to the surroundings.

    I believe there was some movement early on in China and Japan to switch to English - had you done so, you'd be gonners.

    Its in every single word. To some extent, its also how I(and TT) can easily tell that Yan Shen isn’t really very “Chinese” in culture. His quote is imbalanced, and therefore is not chengyu; a more appropriate quote would be: 世上无难事, 只怕有心人

    The direct translation is: “Nothing is difficult in this world, only fear those with ‘heart’ ”

    Various parts of meaning can be teased from the quote, but most specific to what, for example, my father would tell me is “xin” or heart in it: 心

    心 is a symbol of short marks, representing blood. Therefore to “put in effort” one must “bleed” for it, and a fundamental sacrifice for it. As for having sacred qualities, I think both Taoism and Kabbalistic magic has the notion of words of power, thus Taoist seals and the Jewish legend of the golem: the symbol of the word draws spirit down the Tree to give him life, the destruction of the word separates his life from him so he becomes inanimate clay again.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Daniel Chieh
    Most of your comment veers into pretty hilarious territory(especially the "why you lose to manchus") without considering that both times it was pretty much the immediate result of internal collapse. But one point is worth addressing in particular.


    I do not get the Chinese fascination about complex characters in language. Language is supposed to get meanings across easily and effectively, but complex characters aren’t good that purpose. If complex characters were so great, why are Chinese themselves simplifying their language nowadays as opposed to retaining traditional characters as practiced in Taiwan.
     
    The answer is perhaps that is not the only function of language. Language also transmits culture and understanding through the ages; unstripped of context, it fundamentally frames and conveys meaning beyond the most basic. It is strong enough that Dr. Richard E. Nisbett found in Geography of Thought that Europeans who grew up in Asia and spoke East Asian languages perceived the world in context-dependent, "Asian" ways and vice versa for Asians who grew up in Europe and it was strongly, strongly associated with proficiency in written language.

    There's probably a trade-off between richness and ease of use but completely dismissing the other purposes of language beyond its most direct is an error.

    Also the West obviously doesn't have the very top Chinese students. Its mystifying how this has even gotten this far. If you're a top scorer on the Gaokao, the logical choice is to go to Beida or Tsinghua since your tuition is tiny, and technical graduates will make between $50-80k USD in some fields and if you consider cost of living differences, this is huge.

    You might consider this to be a negative thing since the pipeline sends these students into industry rather than academia and research and its a fair point(its been talked about in China), but the trend is evident. The main reason why a Chinese student goes to the US is to get better credentials and burnish it for a higher salary, but there's no benefit to such "hairy crab" moves if he's already maxed out.

    Very good point about language, Daniel. One of the reasons the Japanese are so poor at English is because they believe fluency would damage their ability to navigate the emotional subtleties of their own culture.

    I believe also that written Chinese characters were considered to have artistic and even sacred qualities – for instance scraps of paper with Chinese characters were collected and burned, and not just thrown in the trash, iirc, and an entire art, calligraphy, was spawned. Certainly the presence of Chinese calligraphy everywhere in traditional Chinese villages lent a pleasingly artistic air to the surroundings.

    I believe there was some movement early on in China and Japan to switch to English – had you done so, you’d be gonners.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Its in every single word. To some extent, its also how I(and TT) can easily tell that Yan Shen isn't really very "Chinese" in culture. His quote is imbalanced, and therefore is not chengyu; a more appropriate quote would be: 世上无难事, 只怕有心人

    The direct translation is: "Nothing is difficult in this world, only fear those with 'heart' "

    Various parts of meaning can be teased from the quote, but most specific to what, for example, my father would tell me is "xin" or heart in it: 心

    心 is a symbol of short marks, representing blood. Therefore to "put in effort" one must "bleed" for it, and a fundamental sacrifice for it. As for having sacred qualities, I think both Taoism and Kabbalistic magic has the notion of words of power, thus Taoist seals and the Jewish legend of the golem: the symbol of the word draws spirit down the Tree to give him life, the destruction of the word separates his life from him so he becomes inanimate clay again.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Ju Ahn
    No one is denying Chinese are numerous people just like Indians. Therefore countries like China and US can afford to take their own space program while other developed countries such as Sweden cannot. However, it is also true that GDP per capita for China is lower than some of the African nations as Tyrion 2 has pointed out. Their GDP per capita (nominal) is still less than $10,000 which is not too great with many of their population still living in poverty line.

    Plus, you kept claiming west doesn't have best of China. However, all ethnic Chinese Nobel laureates in physics studied and/or conducted research in the west. Many IMO contestants from China are also studying or have studied in U.S. universities. In addition, there are many notable mathematicians of Chinese descent in the west such as Terence Tao and Yitang Zhang. So, your claim that west isn't getting the best and brightest of China is simply false.

    You seem to be confused what hard fact is so I'll put it in boldface. HARD FACT: China's nominal GDP per capita < $10,000 (less than Botswana), At least some top tier Chinese graduates study in the U.S.

    I do not get the Chinese fascination about complex characters in language. Language is supposed to get meanings across easily and effectively, but complex characters aren't good that purpose. If complex characters were so great, why are Chinese themselves simplifying their language nowadays as opposed to retaining traditional characters as practiced in Taiwan.

    Plus, your numerous Han Chinese army were often defeated by northern Manchus from time to time despite being vastly superior in numbers. Why did China's 1 million army routinely defeated by northern barbarian fighters from Manchu and Mongolian army numbering less than 100,000 if Chinese were such able fighters. From this I can only conclude that Han Chinese were very feeble fighters compare to northern barbarians since they were subjugated by northern tribes for good portion of their history. [Qing Dynasty (by Machus), Yuan (by Mongols), Jin (controlled northern half of China)]

    You also say Koreans and Japanese copied Chinese customs. By the same logic, Chinese are copying Europeans costumes and science/technology today. Actually Chinese people are infamous for this kind of behavior such as industrial spies and their lack of respect for intellectual properties. Why are Chinese people producing so many counterfeit Louis Vuitton and Chanel products today if their culture is so great?

    Most of your comment veers into pretty hilarious territory(especially the “why you lose to manchus”) without considering that both times it was pretty much the immediate result of internal collapse. But one point is worth addressing in particular.

    I do not get the Chinese fascination about complex characters in language. Language is supposed to get meanings across easily and effectively, but complex characters aren’t good that purpose. If complex characters were so great, why are Chinese themselves simplifying their language nowadays as opposed to retaining traditional characters as practiced in Taiwan.

    The answer is perhaps that is not the only function of language. Language also transmits culture and understanding through the ages; unstripped of context, it fundamentally frames and conveys meaning beyond the most basic. It is strong enough that Dr. Richard E. Nisbett found in Geography of Thought that Europeans who grew up in Asia and spoke East Asian languages perceived the world in context-dependent, “Asian” ways and vice versa for Asians who grew up in Europe and it was strongly, strongly associated with proficiency in written language.

    There’s probably a trade-off between richness and ease of use but completely dismissing the other purposes of language beyond its most direct is an error.

    Also the West obviously doesn’t have the very top Chinese students. Its mystifying how this has even gotten this far. If you’re a top scorer on the Gaokao, the logical choice is to go to Beida or Tsinghua since your tuition is tiny, and technical graduates will make between $50-80k USD in some fields and if you consider cost of living differences, this is huge.

    You might consider this to be a negative thing since the pipeline sends these students into industry rather than academia and research and its a fair point(its been talked about in China), but the trend is evident. The main reason why a Chinese student goes to the US is to get better credentials and burnish it for a higher salary, but there’s no benefit to such “hairy crab” moves if he’s already maxed out.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AaronB
    Very good point about language, Daniel. One of the reasons the Japanese are so poor at English is because they believe fluency would damage their ability to navigate the emotional subtleties of their own culture.

    I believe also that written Chinese characters were considered to have artistic and even sacred qualities - for instance scraps of paper with Chinese characters were collected and burned, and not just thrown in the trash, iirc, and an entire art, calligraphy, was spawned. Certainly the presence of Chinese calligraphy everywhere in traditional Chinese villages lent a pleasingly artistic air to the surroundings.

    I believe there was some movement early on in China and Japan to switch to English - had you done so, you'd be gonners.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Anon
    Do you understand difference betw Troll & discussing of facts & views? Otherwise all your comments should be flagged as troll too.

    I can understand Tyrion marked my factual comment as troll out of agitation after been shame publicly. Daniel & Yan Seng are true blood Chinese, and regular contributors of meaningful comments. Yet Tyrion is trying to arguing foolishly, that's the reason i make a unpleasant comment. But my apology to him, i could use more gentle way without touching on jews.

    Now i will response to your comment while i still have some free time.

    Chinese commentators often engage in this type of confused or dishonest behavior trying to conflate large numbers with averages.
     
    First, i am not related to China, so my comment is objective & more neutral. That answered your ad homein comment.

    In addition, 100 million in China is less than 10% of Chinese population. That point doesn’t disprove that majority of Chinese people still aren’t rich.
     
    That 10% is based on Tyrion bragging of his China experience that make him wildly believed he got better understanding than true Chinese. So are you?

    Where did anyone said all Chinese are rich, pls point out. What is been consistently highlighted is even top10% rich is 140M, a huge huge number of rich. No?

    Tell me how many Koreans is rich vs poverty when jobless rate is pretty high now. Even in Japan, i am seeing many homeless sleeping in train stations and scavenging rubbish bins for food, with old folks shoplifting as they are too ashamed to beg. A high % are working as low pay contract worker now. No? Try read up abit.

    Wealth distribution is very wide in this globalization world, the rich simply get richer. While i live so comfortably, my charity work with poors always humbled me that there are always bottom 20% living in such unbelievable poverty.

    Nearly all developed countries have bottom 20% live in poverty, many are homeless & regularly have not enough food. Try search abit starting from US, UK, Oz, Nz, Canada, EU, Japan, Korea, Singapore, Taiwan, HK, …all have 20% poverty. And China is aiming at eradicating poverty entirely of its last 40M by 2020, how marvellous, 1.4B people free from extreme poverty.

    China wealth is very unevenly distributed due to break neck growth. The pay between urban & rural is very wide, I would believe up to 20% of urban Chinese is holding the majority wealth. That is 280M, nearly twice of Japan. That's what we consistently emphasized, the Chinese rich can afford US study is simply plentiful.

    How about US? Combined rich of the top few equivalent to the bottom 50%, 1% is holding the majority wealth. So GDP(ppp) per capital can be deceiving.

    Your point is already debunked as I’ve pointed out that there are many Chinese students who were Chinese International Mathematical Olympiad (IMO) team members studying or have studied in U.S. universities as undergraduate students.
     
    You should have adequate ability to understand different between BEST & Good /Above Average. Those joining IMO might be good in maths doesn't equate that they are the Best overall. Just because that few IMO representatives are studying in US, it don't implied hundreds of of thousands Chinese students studying in US are the Best. No? What have you to debunk?

    If you asked every true blood Chinese(not ABC), they will consistently tell you those undergrad study in China ivory uni are their best, but not the post grad. This is the Chinese way of life not up to you or me to determine.

    They compete fiercely to enter their best local uni which they prided as best, when unable, the wealthy one (100~300M) will go to US/UK. So majority in US is at best only 2nd grade, not 1st grade, while some are rich princelings.

    And 3rd grade went to Oz/Nz uni, some stay on while some proceed to US/UK ivory for postgrad.

    4th grade is dumped in Singapore or Japan under free scholarship. Yet these 4th grade proceed to achieve 1st class honor in NUS/NTU STEM courses (Top5 in world ranking).

    In Singapore, only Top20% of Cambridge GCE "A" graduate enter STEM course in NTU/NUS under gov quota system. Only Top 3~5% of ungrad cohort will be granted 1st class honor.

    You might want to know, Singapore Cambridge Uni GCE "A" Level for uni enrolment has to be segregated from UK GCE A paper, mark with much higher standard. Reason been if to grade altogether, all Spore students will get straight distinctions if to pass UK students within acceptable margin, or majority UK students will fail the exam. That's how wide margin. Its no coincident Spore is scoring Top in IQ, SAT, IMO, etc. year after year.

    Yet 80% could not make it to 2 top local uni STEM. If affordable, some proceed to overseas study to get their distinction/medals, surprisingly. But the real cream will apply for prestige gov scholarship to study in ivory uni of US/UK for career reason.

    Those rejected by NUS medical course (annual 200 quota), will get Gold Medal or top distinction in West uni to be awarded scholarship/fellowship in ivory uni. In Malaysia, its even much more competitive for the Chinese ethnics to enrol in top local uni due to race discrimination.

    So its not surprising that even China 2nd grade is outperforming most in West uni, considering their 4th grade can excel even in highly competitive Spore education system, which has a proven academic achievement track record well surpass all OECD countries including SK.

    And these highly performing Spore Chinese diaspora are what Spore PM Lee Kuan Yew said to China Deng Xiao Peng : "We are the descendants of your poor peasants. You are the true elites. What we can achieve, China can sure do much better."

    I am speaking from direct experience with these academic students, not based on speculation & pride like Tyrion or you.

    So what are you trying to debunk then with your own tinted view?

    Same thing happened many years ago when the PISA score of Shanghai first came out. Chinese commentators tried to use those data to somehow prove Han superiority. However, it is obvious that using data points from the metropolitan area as a representative sample of the entire nation is ridiculous. Few years after, the results from the rest of the China came out, and China did not outperform its East Asian neighbors such as South Korea and Japan much to the dismay of Han chauvinists.
     
    What make you think all other cities will not develop into another Shanghai or Beijing in due course as China progress into parity of Japan & SK?

    Shenzhen was transformed from a village to most vibrant SV within 20yrs, surpassing HK GDP from nothing. They simply has the unparalleled number & quality to duplicate tens/hundred of HK/Spore if given peaceful rise.

    Chinese is not dismayed as what you said been not outperforming SK or Japan in country wide test. They understood China is a huge country of 1.4B people with uneven distribution under dynamic growth & restructuring.

    If they will to compare using major cities that reach similar living standard of Japan & SK, they will remain very competitive if not well surpassing.

    I will share with you some history I learned from older humble South Koreans I worked with to satisfy your Korean chauvinism, since many young Koreans now believed they are smarter than Chinese & have largely arrived because US decided to prop up its lackey SK economic abit like Japan for countering China as well as for US ripping.

    SKorean even tried to distort history to say Chinese copied their culture, tradition costumes, writings, Traditional Chinese Medicine 中医 has now become 韩医. That pissed off Chinese that make them shunned Korean drama.

    If you are old enough, you should know Korean writing is make for illiterate farmer usage. The elites traditionally used old Chinese writing, with Confucianism as their highest elitism. Most older Korean elites still write Chinese well. They copied superior Tang(?) Dynasty Chinese old costumes & culture, civilization, architecture, everything wholesale with some errors or modification like Japanese.

    But during Japanese colonial era, Korean emperor wanted to use their own writing for nationalism, which is what we are seeing now, the improved version of farmer writing. No?

    Talk about civilization, talent & technical capability. I had worked in Samsung, the best SK coporate, and understand abit on LG & Hyundai in some dealings which are so much poorly managed than Samsung. I can clearly said, Korea capability & civilization nowhere near to Japanese 60%. You may disagree, but its reality.

    Hint: With complete free access to West technology & materials, well funded SK repeatedly failed to launch even a rocket (bought from Russia) successfully for satellite launching trial, while their heavily sanctioned NK kins already long completed launching their satellite with indigenous design & develop rockets, even with intercontinental ability now. Japan is also struggling with this rocket technology, but better thsn Korean.

    Why? NK is actually majority Hans ethnic after the devastating Korean war. This is what i heard, no offend.

    Some Chinese told (from their old Korean war vets) the war was fought so ferociously by brave Koreans against the excessively overpowering US allied, nearly all NK men were killed. When the survived Chinese soldiers removed the dead soldiers uniform(reused), many were women sent to fight after all men were decimated. Korean is a fighter race that even Hans find difficult to subjugate.

    After the war, Mao let most Chinese soldiers stay in NK to rebuild & repopulate. The NK is essentially Hans descendants now. So they are as good as Chinese. If given free access to technology & no sanction, they might able to even roll out 5th Gen Fighter Jets or aerospace program like Chinese, with prosperous economy. Under 50yrs heavy sanctions, they still manage to deliver a impressive GDP growth, & nation wide free stella healthcare & education.

    SK dreamed to do 5th Gen Fighter with Indonesia, but couldn't even visualize a outline. Similarly, Japan has given up their Xinshen 5th Gen Jet project after knowing their capability limit. So what's more to talk about aerospace technology in sending human into space.

    IQ or SAT is only a gauging tool for uni selection. The true talented race can only be revealed in their achievements, like Russian, Germans, Chinese, North Indians(Pak), Jews, and some Europeans. US is simply a melting pot of all these races. Korean & Japanese are never.

    Btw, Japanese colleague told me themselves, they are actually Manchus descendants. The real indigenous is Ainu, short dark hairy skin farmer race. So they are essentially what Chinese Hans called, the Manchus, uncivilized North Barbarian.

    Now you can flagged me as troll again if you feel pride hurt. You ask for it, so i reply with hard facts.

    No one is denying Chinese are numerous people just like Indians. Therefore countries like China and US can afford to take their own space program while other developed countries such as Sweden cannot. However, it is also true that GDP per capita for China is lower than some of the African nations as Tyrion 2 has pointed out. Their GDP per capita (nominal) is still less than $10,000 which is not too great with many of their population still living in poverty line.

    Plus, you kept claiming west doesn’t have best of China. However, all ethnic Chinese Nobel laureates in physics studied and/or conducted research in the west. Many IMO contestants from China are also studying or have studied in U.S. universities. In addition, there are many notable mathematicians of Chinese descent in the west such as Terence Tao and Yitang Zhang. So, your claim that west isn’t getting the best and brightest of China is simply false.

    You seem to be confused what hard fact is so I’ll put it in boldface. HARD FACT: China’s nominal GDP per capita < $10,000 (less than Botswana), At least some top tier Chinese graduates study in the U.S.

    I do not get the Chinese fascination about complex characters in language. Language is supposed to get meanings across easily and effectively, but complex characters aren’t good that purpose. If complex characters were so great, why are Chinese themselves simplifying their language nowadays as opposed to retaining traditional characters as practiced in Taiwan.

    Plus, your numerous Han Chinese army were often defeated by northern Manchus from time to time despite being vastly superior in numbers. Why did China’s 1 million army routinely defeated by northern barbarian fighters from Manchu and Mongolian army numbering less than 100,000 if Chinese were such able fighters. From this I can only conclude that Han Chinese were very feeble fighters compare to northern barbarians since they were subjugated by northern tribes for good portion of their history. [Qing Dynasty (by Machus), Yuan (by Mongols), Jin (controlled northern half of China)]

    You also say Koreans and Japanese copied Chinese customs. By the same logic, Chinese are copying Europeans costumes and science/technology today. Actually Chinese people are infamous for this kind of behavior such as industrial spies and their lack of respect for intellectual properties. Why are Chinese people producing so many counterfeit Louis Vuitton and Chanel products today if their culture is so great?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Most of your comment veers into pretty hilarious territory(especially the "why you lose to manchus") without considering that both times it was pretty much the immediate result of internal collapse. But one point is worth addressing in particular.


    I do not get the Chinese fascination about complex characters in language. Language is supposed to get meanings across easily and effectively, but complex characters aren’t good that purpose. If complex characters were so great, why are Chinese themselves simplifying their language nowadays as opposed to retaining traditional characters as practiced in Taiwan.
     
    The answer is perhaps that is not the only function of language. Language also transmits culture and understanding through the ages; unstripped of context, it fundamentally frames and conveys meaning beyond the most basic. It is strong enough that Dr. Richard E. Nisbett found in Geography of Thought that Europeans who grew up in Asia and spoke East Asian languages perceived the world in context-dependent, "Asian" ways and vice versa for Asians who grew up in Europe and it was strongly, strongly associated with proficiency in written language.

    There's probably a trade-off between richness and ease of use but completely dismissing the other purposes of language beyond its most direct is an error.

    Also the West obviously doesn't have the very top Chinese students. Its mystifying how this has even gotten this far. If you're a top scorer on the Gaokao, the logical choice is to go to Beida or Tsinghua since your tuition is tiny, and technical graduates will make between $50-80k USD in some fields and if you consider cost of living differences, this is huge.

    You might consider this to be a negative thing since the pipeline sends these students into industry rather than academia and research and its a fair point(its been talked about in China), but the trend is evident. The main reason why a Chinese student goes to the US is to get better credentials and burnish it for a higher salary, but there's no benefit to such "hairy crab" moves if he's already maxed out.
    , @Anon
    You are straying off in your argument, getting personal with foolish ad homein attacks.

    I am not from China, but still i will try to clear your attack on China.

    No one is denying Chinese are numerous people just like Indians. Therefore countries like China and US can afford to take their own space program while other developed countries such as Sweden cannot.
     
    So you agreed there are PLENTY of rich Chinese in hundreds of millions that can afford sending their underperforming children to US uni.

    Space program is more than numerous population, you need top caliber talents as it involved too many complex technical abilities.

    Japan/Indonesia pop >Russia. EU popn >US. Africans>Russia & US. Yet they can't do space program, why?

    If SK & NK united, one day they might as NK has exhibited their respectable technical ability. SK has to buy their AIP submarine while NK is developing on submarine with SLM submerge launch missiles.

    Ukraine with only 30~40M, is capabled in aerospace program & wide array of military & heavy industry.

    HARD FACT: China’s nominal GDP per capita < $10,000 (less than Botswana), At least some top tier Chinese graduates study in the U.S.
     
    No one is arguing with you on China GDP per cap. We are saying due to uneven distribution, those can afford US study is simply plenty, which you agreed. So let's not rant further on that.

    Plus, you kept claiming west doesn’t have best of China. However, all ethnic Chinese Nobel laureates in physics studied and/or conducted research in the west. Many IMO contestants from China are also studying or have studied in U.S. universities. In addition, there are many notable mathematicians of Chinese descent in the west such as Terence Tao and Yitang Zhang. So, your claim that west isn’t getting the best and brightest of China is simply false.
     
    This is not my claimed, its from Chinese Ivy graduate horse mouth. Nobel prize is quite political isn't it? Be a dissidents of West's enemy will land you a Nobel peace prize.

    In fact, many top Chinese scientists don't even published their papers. Eg last year one Chinese material engineer published a new finding on his blog, was immediately taken down because that technology is applicable in stealth fighter.

    There are no doubt some top tier are study in US, esp non technical like economics, but not as Tyrion claimed only the Best can study in US.

    Re-emphasized: If Spore 1st class honor graduate can excel in US ivy with scholarship/research/fellowship grant, yet China 4th teir can get Spore uni 1st Class, certainly their 2nd tier is good enough to perform in US ivy with many Nobel prize & awards.

    And how do you know there aren't many better one than Terence Tao & Yitang graduate from Beida & Qinghua, working quietly in China, developing aerospace, Quantum, AI, light water pebble nuclear, miniature nuclear, nuke submarine, aircraft carrier & magnetism propeling sys, 6th Gen fighter jet, hypersonic missiles, jet engines, heavy rockets, satellites, next gen supercomputer, super conducter, super metallurgy,… ?

    Eg. The chief engineer of China first nuclear submarine never return home since 30s, only reappeared recently at 80s to get his medal rewards from Prez Xi. How US can know his science contribution for Nobel Prize.

    I do not get the Chinese fascination about complex characters in language
     
    Why do you rant on this? Im trying to reveal the history of Korean writing that many won't aware, never say its more superior, even though it is, obviously.

    I never mentioned Chinese is capable fighter, they might in certain history, why you go into such foolish argument. I only remarked Korean is such tough fighter race that even much powerful Hans empire find difficult to subjugate historically. Its a compliment to Koreans isn't it?

    You also say Koreans and Japanese copied Chinese customs. By the same logic, Chinese are copying Europeans costumes and science/technology today.
     
    Its a fact that ancient Japan sent their best people to work in China court & learn their superior customs. Korean too. But Koreans are now trying to distort the truth to say Chinese copy their Great Korean civilization 大韩文化 when their better economy make them drown in hubris. Btw, your flag is a Chinese Bagua 八卦 isn't it?

    Chinese never denied they copy European costumes in wearing suits, they openly called it 西装(Western suits). Do Koreans call their traditional costumes 汉服(Hans Dress)? No, they change the name to 韩服(Korean Dress).

    Actually Chinese people are infamous for this kind of behavior such as industrial spies and their lack of respect for intellectual properties. Why are Chinese people producing so many counterfeit Louis Vuitton and Chanel products today if their culture is so great?
     
    You are now making yourself a great laughing stock for doing such ridiculous unwarranted attack.

    Firstly, Korea is world most renowned largest counterfeit mecca for luxury goods & industrial products, don't pretend you are so ignorant.

    Korean could perfect the skill that even most experienced French socialite can't differentiate LV /Hermes counterfeit, only when they sent for repair to discover. Chinese has much to catch up. My sisters only like Korean counterfeit because almost perfect.

    Every country does industrial espionage, with US the apex thru 5Eyes. There was a report on France found that everytime US could publish their new discovery just days before their announcement. So they tried only use paper work without electronic message for top research, and it work.

    Wikileaks revealed US NSA hacked into Huawei to get tonnes of material. Some Western countries even patented China FSR technology after asking for tender info to their surprise. They learned the hard way, the West is even more treacherous & untrustworthy.

    Japan catch up by much copying of West technology after WWII, which US purposely permit to keep Japan as counter force to Soviet & China. Korean also did that but very backward, but its now so good in copying that some suppliers are worry to sell high tech equipment to SK as they could duplicate it so fast.

    As US allies, whatever Japan & Korea did are tolerated. Even dog & cat eating, only China get single out in West msm smearing, while Korea, Taiwan, Thailand, India, …are all spared. No?

    China will be stupid not to take that proven path everyone adopted for fast catch up. But West & Japan are blocking all high tech access to China. US is always threatening to cutoff supply of monopoly high tech, eg Intel cpu that China used for supercomputer. Within one year, China developed its own indigenous cpu & roll out another world No1 supercomputer.

    Why not China design from beginning? If its commercially available, why waste so much resources to dev and produce only few thousands for own usage.

    Just yesterday US declared to block ZTE from all US products esp Qualcomm & Broadcom cpu in attempt to obstruct China lead in 5G & telcom. Soon China will have to roll out its own indigenous telcom chip sets, but its huge domestic market can easily justify the dev cost.

    How many Nobel prize Korean get? How many true innovation? You know better your limitation, even you have complete free access to West technology that China don't.

    When the China rurals get develop, we will see how many pts Chinese IQ & SAT scores increase over SK & Japan.

    Btw, Spore Chinese diaspora is 75% of popn with 25% Malay/Indian under performing minority, so the Chinese is actually performing higher than their existing No1 scores.

    Malaysia with 75% Malay/Indian & 25% Chinese, has very low score. Indonesia with even fewer Chinese ethnic score much lower. Vietnam is doing well because if you visit, you will find most are Chinese ethnic migrants.

    And minority Chinese ethnic in every SEAsia is controlling 70% wealth, leading most businesses, professional positions & financial, except political power. This is no coincident.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Anon[558] • Disclaimer says:
    @FKA Max
    Why?

    I find it equally un- and incredible to claim that the Chinese in the following video have an average IQ of 106!?

    Rural Chinese Farmers

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWAO3ZhD8_Q

    If you can’t, you should take a lovely gaze at US people elected prez, pinnacle of their elites, Prez Trumps, Bush, Clinton, Obama…so are UK best elites PM Blair, Cameron, May, FM Boris…these clowns are the Anglos highest standard.

    Then go some outskirts /backyards look for numourous jobless rednecks lay waste by capitalist manufacturing hollowing, Constitution rights gun violent murderers & states sponsored opiod druggies, glorified LBGT sheboy running in high heels boot preparing to bomb Syria cities incessantly to save more lifes they said, there you can find a good comparison.

    Don’t worry, the rapefugees flooding West will further improve your ave IQ.

    With so many morons ruling the West, sure well administrated Chinese or East Asian ave IQ is getting higher while the West is declining into abyss.

    Hope that help to sober up your delusion. Its not your fault, your gov brainwashed you since born. Now the train has left, no turning back. Try pick up a Chinese language course & hook a Chinese wife to get China citizenship, like some wise whites are doing now before white lost all value.

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    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Anon[558] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ju Ahn
    Your point is already debunked as I've pointed out that there are many Chinese students who were Chinese International Mathematical Olympiad (IMO) team members studying or have studied in U.S. universities as undergraduate students.

    These people are truly the best and brightest of the China as they're top 6 people handpicked yearly from their high school population to represent their country in student Olympics of Mathematics.

    In addition, 100 million in China is less than 10% of Chinese population. That point doesn't disprove that majority of Chinese people still aren't rich. No one is arguing Chinese people aren't numerous and there are many intelligent and wealthy people among them just due to their sheer numbers. Chinese commentators often engage in this type of confused or dishonest behavior trying to conflate large numbers with averages.

    Same thing happened many years ago when the PISA score of Shanghai first came out. Chinese commentators tried to use those data to somehow prove Han superiority. However, it is obvious that using data points from the metropolitan area as a representative sample of the entire nation is ridiculous. Few years after, the results from the rest of the China came out, and China did not outperform its East Asian neighbors such as South Korea and Japan much to the dismay of Han chauvinists.

    Do you understand difference betw Troll & discussing of facts & views? Otherwise all your comments should be flagged as troll too.

    I can understand Tyrion marked my factual comment as troll out of agitation after been shame publicly. Daniel & Yan Seng are true blood Chinese, and regular contributors of meaningful comments. Yet Tyrion is trying to arguing foolishly, that’s the reason i make a unpleasant comment. But my apology to him, i could use more gentle way without touching on jews.

    Now i will response to your comment while i still have some free time.

    Chinese commentators often engage in this type of confused or dishonest behavior trying to conflate large numbers with averages.

    First, i am not related to China, so my comment is objective & more neutral. That answered your ad homein comment.

    In addition, 100 million in China is less than 10% of Chinese population. That point doesn’t disprove that majority of Chinese people still aren’t rich.

    That 10% is based on Tyrion bragging of his China experience that make him wildly believed he got better understanding than true Chinese. So are you?

    Where did anyone said all Chinese are rich, pls point out. What is been consistently highlighted is even top10% rich is 140M, a huge huge number of rich. No?

    Tell me how many Koreans is rich vs poverty when jobless rate is pretty high now. Even in Japan, i am seeing many homeless sleeping in train stations and scavenging rubbish bins for food, with old folks shoplifting as they are too ashamed to beg. A high % are working as low pay contract worker now. No? Try read up abit.

    Wealth distribution is very wide in this globalization world, the rich simply get richer. While i live so comfortably, my charity work with poors always humbled me that there are always bottom 20% living in such unbelievable poverty.

    Nearly all developed countries have bottom 20% live in poverty, many are homeless & regularly have not enough food. Try search abit starting from US, UK, Oz, Nz, Canada, EU, Japan, Korea, Singapore, Taiwan, HK, …all have 20% poverty. And China is aiming at eradicating poverty entirely of its last 40M by 2020, how marvellous, 1.4B people free from extreme poverty.

    China wealth is very unevenly distributed due to break neck growth. The pay between urban & rural is very wide, I would believe up to 20% of urban Chinese is holding the majority wealth. That is 280M, nearly twice of Japan. That’s what we consistently emphasized, the Chinese rich can afford US study is simply plentiful.

    How about US? Combined rich of the top few equivalent to the bottom 50%, 1% is holding the majority wealth. So GDP(ppp) per capital can be deceiving.

    Your point is already debunked as I’ve pointed out that there are many Chinese students who were Chinese International Mathematical Olympiad (IMO) team members studying or have studied in U.S. universities as undergraduate students.

    You should have adequate ability to understand different between BEST & Good /Above Average. Those joining IMO might be good in maths doesn’t equate that they are the Best overall. Just because that few IMO representatives are studying in US, it don’t implied hundreds of of thousands Chinese students studying in US are the Best. No? What have you to debunk?

    If you asked every true blood Chinese(not ABC), they will consistently tell you those undergrad study in China ivory uni are their best, but not the post grad. This is the Chinese way of life not up to you or me to determine.

    They compete fiercely to enter their best local uni which they prided as best, when unable, the wealthy one (100~300M) will go to US/UK. So majority in US is at best only 2nd grade, not 1st grade, while some are rich princelings.

    And 3rd grade went to Oz/Nz uni, some stay on while some proceed to US/UK ivory for postgrad.

    4th grade is dumped in Singapore or Japan under free scholarship. Yet these 4th grade proceed to achieve 1st class honor in NUS/NTU STEM courses (Top5 in world ranking).

    In Singapore, only Top20% of Cambridge GCE “A” graduate enter STEM course in NTU/NUS under gov quota system. Only Top 3~5% of ungrad cohort will be granted 1st class honor.

    You might want to know, Singapore Cambridge Uni GCE “A” Level for uni enrolment has to be segregated from UK GCE A paper, mark with much higher standard. Reason been if to grade altogether, all Spore students will get straight distinctions if to pass UK students within acceptable margin, or majority UK students will fail the exam. That’s how wide margin. Its no coincident Spore is scoring Top in IQ, SAT, IMO, etc. year after year.

    Yet 80% could not make it to 2 top local uni STEM. If affordable, some proceed to overseas study to get their distinction/medals, surprisingly. But the real cream will apply for prestige gov scholarship to study in ivory uni of US/UK for career reason.

    Those rejected by NUS medical course (annual 200 quota), will get Gold Medal or top distinction in West uni to be awarded scholarship/fellowship in ivory uni. In Malaysia, its even much more competitive for the Chinese ethnics to enrol in top local uni due to race discrimination.

    So its not surprising that even China 2nd grade is outperforming most in West uni, considering their 4th grade can excel even in highly competitive Spore education system, which has a proven academic achievement track record well surpass all OECD countries including SK.

    And these highly performing Spore Chinese diaspora are what Spore PM Lee Kuan Yew said to China Deng Xiao Peng : “We are the descendants of your poor peasants. You are the true elites. What we can achieve, China can sure do much better.”

    I am speaking from direct experience with these academic students, not based on speculation & pride like Tyrion or you.

    So what are you trying to debunk then with your own tinted view?

    Same thing happened many years ago when the PISA score of Shanghai first came out. Chinese commentators tried to use those data to somehow prove Han superiority. However, it is obvious that using data points from the metropolitan area as a representative sample of the entire nation is ridiculous. Few years after, the results from the rest of the China came out, and China did not outperform its East Asian neighbors such as South Korea and Japan much to the dismay of Han chauvinists.

    What make you think all other cities will not develop into another Shanghai or Beijing in due course as China progress into parity of Japan & SK?

    Shenzhen was transformed from a village to most vibrant SV within 20yrs, surpassing HK GDP from nothing. They simply has the unparalleled number & quality to duplicate tens/hundred of HK/Spore if given peaceful rise.

    Chinese is not dismayed as what you said been not outperforming SK or Japan in country wide test. They understood China is a huge country of 1.4B people with uneven distribution under dynamic growth & restructuring.

    If they will to compare using major cities that reach similar living standard of Japan & SK, they will remain very competitive if not well surpassing.

    I will share with you some history I learned from older humble South Koreans I worked with to satisfy your Korean chauvinism, since many young Koreans now believed they are smarter than Chinese & have largely arrived because US decided to prop up its lackey SK economic abit like Japan for countering China as well as for US ripping.

    SKorean even tried to distort history to say Chinese copied their culture, tradition costumes, writings, Traditional Chinese Medicine 中医 has now become 韩医. That pissed off Chinese that make them shunned Korean drama.

    If you are old enough, you should know Korean writing is make for illiterate farmer usage. The elites traditionally used old Chinese writing, with Confucianism as their highest elitism. Most older Korean elites still write Chinese well. They copied superior Tang(?) Dynasty Chinese old costumes & culture, civilization, architecture, everything wholesale with some errors or modification like Japanese.

    But during Japanese colonial era, Korean emperor wanted to use their own writing for nationalism, which is what we are seeing now, the improved version of farmer writing. No?

    Talk about civilization, talent & technical capability. I had worked in Samsung, the best SK coporate, and understand abit on LG & Hyundai in some dealings which are so much poorly managed than Samsung. I can clearly said, Korea capability & civilization nowhere near to Japanese 60%. You may disagree, but its reality.

    Hint: With complete free access to West technology & materials, well funded SK repeatedly failed to launch even a rocket (bought from Russia) successfully for satellite launching trial, while their heavily sanctioned NK kins already long completed launching their satellite with indigenous design & develop rockets, even with intercontinental ability now. Japan is also struggling with this rocket technology, but better thsn Korean.

    Why? NK is actually majority Hans ethnic after the devastating Korean war. This is what i heard, no offend.

    Some Chinese told (from their old Korean war vets) the war was fought so ferociously by brave Koreans against the excessively overpowering US allied, nearly all NK men were killed. When the survived Chinese soldiers removed the dead soldiers uniform(reused), many were women sent to fight after all men were decimated. Korean is a fighter race that even Hans find difficult to subjugate.

    After the war, Mao let most Chinese soldiers stay in NK to rebuild & repopulate. The NK is essentially Hans descendants now. So they are as good as Chinese. If given free access to technology & no sanction, they might able to even roll out 5th Gen Fighter Jets or aerospace program like Chinese, with prosperous economy. Under 50yrs heavy sanctions, they still manage to deliver a impressive GDP growth, & nation wide free stella healthcare & education.

    SK dreamed to do 5th Gen Fighter with Indonesia, but couldn’t even visualize a outline. Similarly, Japan has given up their Xinshen 5th Gen Jet project after knowing their capability limit. So what’s more to talk about aerospace technology in sending human into space.

    IQ or SAT is only a gauging tool for uni selection. The true talented race can only be revealed in their achievements, like Russian, Germans, Chinese, North Indians(Pak), Jews, and some Europeans. US is simply a melting pot of all these races. Korean & Japanese are never.

    Btw, Japanese colleague told me themselves, they are actually Manchus descendants. The real indigenous is Ainu, short dark hairy skin farmer race. So they are essentially what Chinese Hans called, the Manchus, uncivilized North Barbarian.

    Now you can flagged me as troll again if you feel pride hurt. You ask for it, so i reply with hard facts.

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    • Replies: @Ju Ahn
    No one is denying Chinese are numerous people just like Indians. Therefore countries like China and US can afford to take their own space program while other developed countries such as Sweden cannot. However, it is also true that GDP per capita for China is lower than some of the African nations as Tyrion 2 has pointed out. Their GDP per capita (nominal) is still less than $10,000 which is not too great with many of their population still living in poverty line.

    Plus, you kept claiming west doesn't have best of China. However, all ethnic Chinese Nobel laureates in physics studied and/or conducted research in the west. Many IMO contestants from China are also studying or have studied in U.S. universities. In addition, there are many notable mathematicians of Chinese descent in the west such as Terence Tao and Yitang Zhang. So, your claim that west isn't getting the best and brightest of China is simply false.

    You seem to be confused what hard fact is so I'll put it in boldface. HARD FACT: China's nominal GDP per capita < $10,000 (less than Botswana), At least some top tier Chinese graduates study in the U.S.

    I do not get the Chinese fascination about complex characters in language. Language is supposed to get meanings across easily and effectively, but complex characters aren't good that purpose. If complex characters were so great, why are Chinese themselves simplifying their language nowadays as opposed to retaining traditional characters as practiced in Taiwan.

    Plus, your numerous Han Chinese army were often defeated by northern Manchus from time to time despite being vastly superior in numbers. Why did China's 1 million army routinely defeated by northern barbarian fighters from Manchu and Mongolian army numbering less than 100,000 if Chinese were such able fighters. From this I can only conclude that Han Chinese were very feeble fighters compare to northern barbarians since they were subjugated by northern tribes for good portion of their history. [Qing Dynasty (by Machus), Yuan (by Mongols), Jin (controlled northern half of China)]

    You also say Koreans and Japanese copied Chinese customs. By the same logic, Chinese are copying Europeans costumes and science/technology today. Actually Chinese people are infamous for this kind of behavior such as industrial spies and their lack of respect for intellectual properties. Why are Chinese people producing so many counterfeit Louis Vuitton and Chanel products today if their culture is so great?

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • The attitude of this Yan Shen fellow stinks! He mocks those who care about social justice in America as “Social justice jihadis!” He did so perhaps thinking the UNZ Review is restricted only to the Fox News Neocons, and disgruntled whites angry about losing their $30/p.h jobs that were relocated to China, but are ironically taking their anger at their poor blacks and Hispanic neighbours, who earn minimum wage at fast food restaurants and blueberry fields.

    It is not true that China, all of a sudden, became rich and prosperous because its people are smart and industrious, for it remained poor and backward for centuries, despite having people with those attributes. But it was enriched at the expense of the U.S., and this wasn’t accident but deliberate. For over 20 years, America was forced to follow a disastrous policy that treated China as “The most favoured nation”, whereby most of American industry was relocated and outsourced to china, and what is left in the country was destroyed because it could not compete with cheap product made with cheap labour, and without any environmental regulations. And while China admirably took advantage of the enormous opportunities that were sent her way and built its economy, America was hijacked and plunged into one disastrous war after another: Afghanistan, Iraq, LIBYA, Yemen, Somalia, Syria and so on. But what is rotten in America is not just the disastrous wars in foreign lands, but the fundamentals of the nation’s infrastructure, politics, economy and justice system are all in shambles. Nowhere that is apparent than the broken justice system, where the rule of law and the due process are long abandoned. For instance, if you belong to certain communities, you could be sent to prison for 30 years on fabricated Secret Evidence that neither you nor your attorney are allowed to see. And this Yan Shen guy has the insolence to complain about not being allowed to attend ivy league school because he has good grades?!

    The worst thing about Trump presidency is that he left the swamp in Washington untouched, but only turned the American people against one another, while he is busy doing the bidding of his masters. The truth of the matter is that that which enriched China and bankrupted America was no normal process, and certainly wasn’t the nature of things. So, as soon as the criminals are pushed aside, and that abnormal process is reversed, America will stand on its feet once again.
    Having said all of that, still China’s ascendency will stall quickly because the Chinese have just eliminated the most innovative aspect of their political system: The peaceful transfer of power from one leader to anther in every 10 years. But now that Xi jinping is anointed as the king forever, his cronies will feel secure. As a result, nepotism and corruption will be rife. And like every other power in history, china will slip, and the gravity will pull her down. That is inventible. But even before that, China’s influence in the world affairs will be very limited by culture, because the Chinese are closed and are busy with one thing, and one thing alone: Accumulating things(wealth).

    However, the weakest link of China that would forever cripple not only her influence, but her potential as well is China’s indifference to the welfare of others. I am not saying this just to put down China, but I will substantiate my point by appealing to the facts on the ground. For instance, 700,000 Rohingya Muslims of Burma were slaughtered, raped, and burned alive at China’s doorsteps. China is the top dog in that area, and the most powerful country in the whole region. So, the question is: Did China save even one single Rohingya family? Nope! When you are that uncaring to the rest of the humanity, you are not going to get very far, no matter how many material things you accumulate. Thus, indifference to the welfare of others is China’s Achilles heel!

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    • Replies: @TT

    Having said all of that, still China’s ascendency will stall quickly because the Chinese have just eliminated the most innovative aspect of their political system: The peaceful transfer of power from one leader to anther in every 10 years. But now that Xi jinping is anointed as the king forever, his cronies will feel secure. As a result, nepotism and corruption will be rife. And like every other power in history, china will slip, and the gravity will pull her down. That is inventible.
     
    Why not read up abit before ranting old wrong thing after these have been much discussed in Mr Geoffrey Roberts articles.
    http://www.unz.com/article/chinese-president-xi-jinping-who-is-he/

    China's constitution declares that the country is ruled "under the leadership" of the Communist Party of China (CPC).[194] As China is a de facto one-party state, the General Secretary (party leader) holds ultimate power and authority over state and government serving as the paramount leader.[195] The electoral system is pyramidal. Local People's Congresses are directly elected, and higher levels of People's Congresses up to the National People's Congress (NPC) are indirectly elected by the People's Congress of the level immediately below.[196] The political system is decentralized, and provincial and sub-provincial leaders have a significant amount of autonomy.[197] Another eight political parties, have representatives in the NPC and the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference (CPPCC).[198] China supports the Leninist principle of "democratic centralism",[199]

     

    90M of elites party member elected their representatives, gradually up to Politburo of 6~ central party Politburo members that are proven over decades of performance.

    The President is the titular head of state, elected by the National People's Congress. The Premier is the head of government, presiding over the State Council composed of four vice premiers and the heads of ministries and commissions. The incumbent president is Xi Jinping, who is also the General Secretary of the Communist Party of China and the Chairman of the Central Military Commission, making him China's paramount leader. The incumbent premier is Li Keqiang, who is also a senior member of the CPC Politburo Standing Committee, China's de facto top decision-making body.[201][135]
     
    Now you understand, Prez is only ceremonial. Whether permanent or two terms doesn't matter. Party GenSec & Military Chairman are the true leadership power, that all Prez hold traditionally, they have no term limitation, but subjected to party members election.

    With China reaching its 40yrs achievement & crossing to next phase of 100yrs grand plan, a Prez of final term is a sitting duck (same as Potus). So party wanted Prez Xi to see through the China dream for longer time. Even over 90++% Chinese & dissidents like Ai weiwei has no complaint when interviewed, yet the West & now the negro are busy shrieking Emperor long lives!!!


    But even before that, China’s influence in the world affairs will be very limited by culture, because the Chinese are closed and are busy with one thing, and one thing alone: Accumulating things(wealth).However, the weakest link of China that would forever cripple not only her influence, but her potential as well is China’s indifference to the welfare of others.
     
    Without economic, there is no world influence, no strong military. Without strong military, there is no influence in geopolitical, but opium wars.

    Now that it has arrived at 2nd GDP with 3rd Military power, its building up Deep water Navy for power projection at own affordability without dragging economy down. Soft power has just start to roll out with Chinese civilization, Confucianism, etc. but US with its 5eyes lackeys Oz is screaming China influence to control our countries.

    When China is only UNSC permanent members with no aircraft carriers for power projection in last 50yrs, people like you are crying China is weak & never care about defending others. Neighbors stole its SCS islands.

    When China build up its power projection force to protect its sprawling global business & defend its allies, people scream China is going hedgmon!!!


    For instance, 700,000 Rohingya Muslims of Burma were slaughtered, raped, and burned alive at China’s doorsteps. China is the top dog in that area, and the most powerful country in the whole region. So, the question is: Did China save even one single Rohingya family? Nope! When you are that uncaring to the rest of the humanity, you are not going to get very far, no matter how many material things you accumulate. Thus, indifference to the welfare of others is China’s Achilles heel!
     
    Haven’t you notice and wonder why a sudden intense outpouring of entire Western msm 24/7 reporting since last year …with the USNato countries and their allied Muslim countries(Saudi and Turkey) gone hysteria overdrive in calling for UN immediate intervention, claiming the worst Genocide, Ethnic Cleansing of century?

    They have never show single concern for these people, since 1960's, why not they accept Rohingya, stop slaughtering Yemenis, Syrians, etc.

    US CIA, UK, France, EU, Turkey, Saudi arabia are the team of evils behind the whole Myanmar Rohingya crisis propaganda to block China Obor node & energy securing alternative path at West Myanmar Rakkhaine. Large oil & gas offshore is found & pipe to China. Rohingya are illegal migrants Bengalis from Bangladesh brought in by British to attack & colonize Myanmar in 1950's. How can Myanmar accept them as minority?

    Ironically these hands behind Rohingya crisis are also the same committing naked genocide & atrocities in Yemen, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Africa…in the name of “humanity”.

    Read these:
    1. Why US &Saudi is backing Rohingya suddenly

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/why-u-s-and-saudi-arabia-back-rohingya-in-myanmar/5613015

    2. Who is responsible for the direct killing

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/who-is-responsible-for-ethnic-cleansing-in-myanmar/5611486

    3. Rohingya pawns of US & Saudi.

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-rohingya-of-myanmar-pawns-in-an-anglo-chinese-proxy-war-fought-by-saudi-jihadists/5607605

    Who is feeding Rohingya now, helping Myanmar to defend against FUKUS attack. Who else, only China. Read http://www.globaltimes.cn
    bottom all history what China did, more than all Muslim countries combined.

    India Assam is facing similar Rohingya akar Bengali- Bangladesh Chittagong illegal migrants in 10millions. India is more violent towards Muslims, have you heard anything from West msm? No, India is FUKUS best ally.

    These are what CIA want, drive the Muslims to hate China, like Soviet case, using Wahabism jihadists to attack China globally hence keeping Fukus hedgmon.

    Thank you for helping CIA to keep American forever great & murderous, slaying all your brethens while blaming China & Russia.

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Anon[558] • Disclaimer says:
    @AaronB

    as a Jew I can only respect the Chinese people’s complete lack of anti-Semitism.
     
    Because of a lack of exposure to Jews, but this is changing fast, especially in America. I do a lot of business with recent Chinese arrivals in America, and I have observed on another thread that there is growing trend of anti-Semitism among Chinese.

    Um, I guess there's always the hope of space exploration revealing an alien species that will have "a complete absence of anti-Semitism"? For a while, at least... :)


    intellectual Sinophile
     
    Sure, Tyrion, sure :)

    I can say Yes, we are gradually understanding why so many are antisemitic after getting more contact with jews. I have few dealing with jews, they do gave me headache each time.

    Recently there was a ex-soviet guy kept pushing for everything unreasonably while behave so unusual miser, yet pretending to be wealthy & generous.

    He act like one who when seeing a beggar, he will think so hard how he can rip from him. If he gave me a spoonful of food(very strange isn’t it) over meal, he will ask for free service worth a tonne persistently.

    So curiously I asked if he is a jews, he sheepishly said somehow yes as his grandma was.

    Similarly for typical Indians, they seldom honoured their words, always twist & turn to make dealing with them so exhaustive. While the chinese too have their own distinct characteristics like loud speaking, so are all other races each having own special traits.

    We just have to learn to be more patient living in this globalization world. Is not that what make life interesting?

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Anon[558] • Disclaimer says:
    @Yan Shen
    What does that even mean?

    Assuming a normal distribution with mean 106 and SD of 15 we'd expect about 16% of Chinese to have IQs below 91 and 7% to have IQs below 84. 7% of 1380 million comes out to almost 97 million.

    16% of whites have IQs lower than that of the average African American. Please learn how to think distributionally...

    You are crazy if you believe that average IQ of Chinese is 1 point lower than that of average African American IQ. The gap in academic and real life performance is so enormous that the null hypothesis of equal intelligence between those two groups is probably infinitesimally small.

    FKA is not crazy, he is just WN wanker trying to get some self consolation after seeing how entire West is declining with self destructive policy while the Asia is ascending so fast.

    Every test be it IQ, SAT, Maths Olympiad…all revealed EVERY East Asian or Chinese majority country like Singapore has the highest score not out of coincident. These test are all formulated by the West that highly skewed towards their advantage.

    Lot of hard work yes, but the cow are working even harder.

    There are sure some whites working as hard & smart, but how many make it to the Maths Olympiad top10. Even US & UK are sending Asians (esp East Asians) as team leaders & representative to win, that’s glaring tell signs.

    You are wasting time arguing with some idiots who equate Chinese IQ with African, just like Tyrion 2 is trying to equate China economic wealth with Botswana or even below Iraqi & Dominican republic. They simply refuse to accept the reality that yellow skin Asian is suddenly equal if not better than their pale skin supremacy glory they have long enjoyed but losing quickly now.

    Pls understand their despair feeling & be compassionate.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @FKA Max
    Why?

    I find it equally un- and incredible to claim that the Chinese in the following video have an average IQ of 106!?

    Rural Chinese Farmers

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWAO3ZhD8_Q

    What does that even mean?

    Assuming a normal distribution with mean 106 and SD of 15 we’d expect about 16% of Chinese to have IQs below 91 and 7% to have IQs below 84. 7% of 1380 million comes out to almost 97 million.

    16% of whites have IQs lower than that of the average African American. Please learn how to think distributionally…

    You are crazy if you believe that average IQ of Chinese is 1 point lower than that of average African American IQ. The gap in academic and real life performance is so enormous that the null hypothesis of equal intelligence between those two groups is probably infinitesimally small.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon
    FKA is not crazy, he is just WN wanker trying to get some self consolation after seeing how entire West is declining with self destructive policy while the Asia is ascending so fast.

    Every test be it IQ, SAT, Maths Olympiad…all revealed EVERY East Asian or Chinese majority country like Singapore has the highest score not out of coincident. These test are all formulated by the West that highly skewed towards their advantage.

    Lot of hard work yes, but the cow are working even harder.

    There are sure some whites working as hard & smart, but how many make it to the Maths Olympiad top10. Even US & UK are sending Asians (esp East Asians) as team leaders & representative to win, that's glaring tell signs.

    You are wasting time arguing with some idiots who equate Chinese IQ with African, just like Tyrion 2 is trying to equate China economic wealth with Botswana or even below Iraqi & Dominican republic. They simply refuse to accept the reality that yellow skin Asian is suddenly equal if not better than their pale skin supremacy glory they have long enjoyed but losing quickly now.

    Pls understand their despair feeling & be compassionate.
    , @FKA Max
    Mr. Shen,

    I just posted a comment in another thread that will explain where I am coming from. Follow the link below for more details and figures:


    res,

    could you, please, do me a favor and calculate the correlation between the population/nation Met allele frequencies of Mr. Piffer’s following paper [...] and Afrosapiens‘s IQ data instead of Lynn’s IQ data, because I believe the correlation will be even stronger and will explain Piffer’s contradictory finding: “Particularly interesting is the relatively low frequency of COMT in East Asian populations (range 0.22–0.30), which contrasts with their reported higher IQ (105).” – p. 169
    [...]
    ["]Thus, the global correlation between IQ and Met allele frequency is r = 0.579 and highly statistically significant (n = 38; P < 0.001). This supports the prediction that populations with higher Met allele frequency have higher IQ, similarly to the correlation observed at the individual level.["]
    [...]
    I agree with Afrosapiens that Lynn has overestimated East Asian intelligence, and I believe that COMT Met is still the best genetic predictor of intelligence, even though some researchers like Emil Kirkegaard disagree
     

    - http://www.unz.com/jthompson/piffers-equation-further-updated/#comment-2297648
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Yan Shen
    Anyone who claims that average Chinese IQ is 1 point below that of average African American IQ really has no credibility in my opinion.

    Why?

    I find it equally un- and incredible to claim that the Chinese in the following video have an average IQ of 106!?

    Rural Chinese Farmers

    Read More
    • Replies: @Yan Shen
    What does that even mean?

    Assuming a normal distribution with mean 106 and SD of 15 we'd expect about 16% of Chinese to have IQs below 91 and 7% to have IQs below 84. 7% of 1380 million comes out to almost 97 million.

    16% of whites have IQs lower than that of the average African American. Please learn how to think distributionally...

    You are crazy if you believe that average IQ of Chinese is 1 point lower than that of average African American IQ. The gap in academic and real life performance is so enormous that the null hypothesis of equal intelligence between those two groups is probably infinitesimally small.

    , @Anon
    If you can't, you should take a lovely gaze at US people elected prez, pinnacle of their elites, Prez Trumps, Bush, Clinton, Obama…so are UK best elites PM Blair, Cameron, May, FM Boris…these clowns are the Anglos highest standard.

    Then go some outskirts /backyards look for numourous jobless rednecks lay waste by capitalist manufacturing hollowing, Constitution rights gun violent murderers & states sponsored opiod druggies, glorified LBGT sheboy running in high heels boot preparing to bomb Syria cities incessantly to save more lifes they said, there you can find a good comparison.

    Don't worry, the rapefugees flooding West will further improve your ave IQ.

    With so many morons ruling the West, sure well administrated Chinese or East Asian ave IQ is getting higher while the West is declining into abyss.

    Hope that help to sober up your delusion. Its not your fault, your gov brainwashed you since born. Now the train has left, no turning back. Try pick up a Chinese language course & hook a Chinese wife to get China citizenship, like some wise whites are doing now before white lost all value.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Ju Ahn
    I've already stated why # quoted by Afroscience is hoax.

    There are number of other factors affecting human intelligence than just education.

    1. Brain Size (East Asians have larger average brain size than Europeans)

    Row 2 gives results from the largest collection of skulls ever collected, numbering approximately 20,000, and shows that the East Asians had a larger brain size than the Europeans by l.2d (standard deviation units). Row 3 gives a difference of 20cc from a study of American 7-year-old children carried out by Broman, Nichols, Shaughnessy, and Kennedy (1987). ... Thus, all the studies except Morton's, revised by Gould shown in row 1, have found that the East Asians have larger average brain size than Europeans.
     
    2. Reaction Time (East Asians have faster average reaction time than Europeans)

    Reaction times consist of the speed of reaction to a simple stimulus such as the onset of a light. Many studies have shown that reaction times are positively related to intelligence at a magnitude of around 0.2 to 0.3 (see Jensen, 1998, and Deary, 2000) and it has been argued by Jensen (1998) that reaction times are a measure of the neurological efficiency of the brain in processing information. We saw in Chapter 4 that Africans have slower reaction times than Europeans consistent with their lower IQ. We consider now whether East Asians have faster reaction times than Europeans consistent with their higher IQs. ... The results of all three studies show that the magnitude of the advantage of East Asian children in reaction times representing the neurological efficiency of the brain in simple information processing is about two thirds of their advantage in intelligence. These studies also reported differences in reaction time variability and in movement times and these were of approximately the same magnitude as those of the reaction times. Jensen (1998) provides a more detailed description and discussion of these studies. Geary et al. (1997) have also reported faster reaction times and higher IQs in Chinese as compared with American children, but they do not give standard deviations so the difference cannot be expressed as a d.
     
    In addition, many actual IQ tests (not your let's just take number of education completed = IQ theory) quoted in Lynn's book and elsewhere confirm that East Asians have higher average IQ than Europeans.

    https://lesacreduprintemps19.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/lynn-race-differences-in-intelligence.pdf

    However, you can disregard all this and keep putting faith in your broscience or I would say white nationalist science rather than actual science if you prefer to keep it that way.

    If you are interested in reading a proper white nationalist take on the topic I recommend the following one:

    The Myth of East Asian Intellectual Supremacy by Peter J. White

    It is sufficient to note that brain size, at best, is only weakly correlated with IQ. What seems to be more important is the degree of neural connectiveness. Otherwise blue whales would be of a super-intelligence level. Further it has been argued that the degree of fissuring and thickness in the frontal cortical brain layers is more important than the sheer size of the human brain. The Negroid brain is generally less fissured than the White and Mongoloid brain. See C.F. Connolly, “External Morphology of the Primate Brain”, (Thomas, Springfield, 1950); F.W. Vint, “The Brain of the Kenya Native”, Journal of Anatomy, vol.66, 1934; H.G. Garrett, “IQ and Race Differences”, (Howard Allen, Cape Canaveral, 1973), p.14.

    Sociobiologists have noted that during the last 20,000 years the upward trend in brain size has been reversed. Modern man has a smaller brain than the Cro-Magnons, by about 100-200 cubic cms. It is usually inferred that the Cro-Magnons were more intelligent than modern man: J.W. Jamieson, “Biological Diversity and Ethnic Identity: Changing Patterns in the Modern World”, The Mankind Quarterly, vol.36, 1995, pp.193-199; B. Chiarelli, “Some comments on the Evolution of Hominid Intelligence” The Mankind Quarterly, vol.37, 1996, pp.29-36. Yet could it be that with modern man evolution departed from pursuing quantity and pursued quality? Perhaps evolution pursued the path of neural efficiency rather than sheer brain size? We will never know the answer to that question because we do not have a Cro-Magnon brain to subject to neurological investigation.

    https://thecross-roads.org/race-culture-nation/25-the-myth-of-east-asian-intellectual-supremacy

    I commented on this here:

    “Brain size has increased about 350% over human evolution, but we found that blood flow to the brain increased an amazing 600%,” project leader Roger Seymour, from the University of Adelaide, said in a statement. “We believe this is possibly related to the brain’s need to satisfy increasingly energetic connections between nerve cells that allowed the evolution of complex thinking and learning.

    http://www.unz.com/jthompson/boost-your-iq/#comment-2085737

    I don’t think reaction time is a good proxy for intelligence. In fact taller people often have slower reaction times due nerve impulses having to travel a greater distance than in shorter people. Mice for example have faster reaction times than elephants. Are mice smarter than elephants? A better proxy for intelligence, in my opinion, is hand-eye coordination:

    In a paper documenting the 20th century decline in reaction speed, scholar Irwin W. Silverman considers the confounding role of height. Height has increased by 1.5 standard deviations over the last 150 years, and this may be producing spuriously slow reaction times because nerve impulses have further to travel in a taller body. However Silverman seems to dismiss this possibility, citing research showing taller people have faster reaction times.

    However within generations, taller people tend to be genetically smarter than shorter people. This is thought to be because both height and intelligence (or at least its correlates: money, status) are socially valued, so people who have an above average amount of both, or either, tend to reproduce with one another, causing the genes for both to become associated. In addition, some of the same genes that influence height, may also influence intelligence. A related point is that short stature and low intelligence may both reflect genetic mutation load, or inbreeding depression.

    So the fact that the nerve impulse has further to travel in tall people may be completely negated by the fact that tall people have genetically faster brains. In other words, tall people may be so mentally quick, that they still perform well on reaction time tasks despite the test being physically biased against them.

    https://brainsize.wordpress.com/2014/06/25/height-reaction-time-victorian-intelligence/

    Effect of height on motor coordination in college students participating in a dancesport program.
    Li X et al. (2015) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25743602
    [...]
    The height of students participating in sport dancing training had an impact on dancesport performance and motor coordination, counter to the traditional belief that shorter people have better coordination.
    [...]
    Motor Coordination Correlates with Academic Achievement and Cognitive Function in Children
    Valter R. Fernandes et al. (2016) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4792186/

    http://www.unz.com/jthompson/womens-brains/#comment-1857667

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @FKA Max
    Afrosapiens estimates average Chinese IQ to be 84 not 79, and he puts African mean IQ at 72, which puts the average Chinese person 12 IQ points above the average African.


    To test the predictive power of my estimates in comparison to Lynn’s, I decided to focus only on the world’s 20 most populous countries. The reason for that is that these countries are home to 70% of the world’s population and the law of large numbers says that they are likely more representative of whatever they could represent. On the other hand, the 100+ other countries are home to only 30% of humanity. They are a source of statistical noise due to extreme outlying values and differences in regional political fragmentation that would hide or weaken general trends better evidenced by considering large countries.


    https://notpolitcallycorrect.files.wordpress.com/2017/09/ranking.png

    https://notpolitcallycorrect.files.wordpress.com/2017/09/correlations.png

    Source: https://notpoliticallycorrect.me/2017/09/05/worldwide-iq-estimates-based-on-education-data/

    Anyone who claims that average Chinese IQ is 1 point below that of average African American IQ really has no credibility in my opinion.

    Read More
    • Replies: @FKA Max
    Why?

    I find it equally un- and incredible to claim that the Chinese in the following video have an average IQ of 106!?

    Rural Chinese Farmers

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWAO3ZhD8_Q

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @FKA Max

    You also stated Lynn fabricated his data to inflate East Asian scores in order to not appear as a white supremacist. However, you failed to substantiate these outlandish statements with any reasonable evidence.
     

    I never personally stated that, I just quoted Afrosapiens. Even so, it seems a reasonable assumption to make, in my opinion, considering the (current) politically correct environment in the West. But you are correct he never specifically backs up this claim in the article.

    Here is the quote. It is in the fourth(4th) paragraph from the bottom:


    The manipulation is quite apparent, Lynn largely over-estimated China (+22), Japan (+7) to make East-Asians cluster on top, thus protecting himself from accusations of nordicism and giving support to the inter-cultural validity of the IQs that he cherry-picked. The western European and Russian data remained mostly unchanged. Vietnam (+11) and Thailand (+5) were given a bonus for their genetic proximity to North-East Asia that is supposed to make them score in the low 90s despite their lack of development. Little changes were brought to the scores of the Latin American, Middle-Eastern and Austronesian countries usually scoring in the mid-80s. Major fraud (+14 in Pakistan, +7 in Bangladesh) was done to lift up South-Asian countries out of the 70s range and excluding Sub-Saharan Africa as the only region scoring 70 or below and downgrading Nigeria (-4) and the DR. Congo (-7) in the process.
     
    - https://notpoliticallycorrect.me/2017/09/05/worldwide-iq-estimates-based-on-education-data/

    I’ve already stated why # quoted by Afroscience is hoax.

    There are number of other factors affecting human intelligence than just education.

    1. Brain Size (East Asians have larger average brain size than Europeans)

    Row 2 gives results from the largest collection of skulls ever collected, numbering approximately 20,000, and shows that the East Asians had a larger brain size than the Europeans by l.2d (standard deviation units). Row 3 gives a difference of 20cc from a study of American 7-year-old children carried out by Broman, Nichols, Shaughnessy, and Kennedy (1987). … Thus, all the studies except Morton’s, revised by Gould shown in row 1, have found that the East Asians have larger average brain size than Europeans.

    2. Reaction Time (East Asians have faster average reaction time than Europeans)

    Reaction times consist of the speed of reaction to a simple stimulus such as the onset of a light. Many studies have shown that reaction times are positively related to intelligence at a magnitude of around 0.2 to 0.3 (see Jensen, 1998, and Deary, 2000) and it has been argued by Jensen (1998) that reaction times are a measure of the neurological efficiency of the brain in processing information. We saw in Chapter 4 that Africans have slower reaction times than Europeans consistent with their lower IQ. We consider now whether East Asians have faster reaction times than Europeans consistent with their higher IQs. … The results of all three studies show that the magnitude of the advantage of East Asian children in reaction times representing the neurological efficiency of the brain in simple information processing is about two thirds of their advantage in intelligence. These studies also reported differences in reaction time variability and in movement times and these were of approximately the same magnitude as those of the reaction times. Jensen (1998) provides a more detailed description and discussion of these studies. Geary et al. (1997) have also reported faster reaction times and higher IQs in Chinese as compared with American children, but they do not give standard deviations so the difference cannot be expressed as a d.

    In addition, many actual IQ tests (not your let’s just take number of education completed = IQ theory) quoted in Lynn’s book and elsewhere confirm that East Asians have higher average IQ than Europeans.

    https://lesacreduprintemps19.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/lynn-race-differences-in-intelligence.pdf

    However, you can disregard all this and keep putting faith in your broscience or I would say white nationalist science rather than actual science if you prefer to keep it that way.

    Read More
    • Replies: @FKA Max
    If you are interested in reading a proper white nationalist take on the topic I recommend the following one:

    The Myth of East Asian Intellectual Supremacy by Peter J. White


    It is sufficient to note that brain size, at best, is only weakly correlated with IQ. What seems to be more important is the degree of neural connectiveness. Otherwise blue whales would be of a super-intelligence level. Further it has been argued that the degree of fissuring and thickness in the frontal cortical brain layers is more important than the sheer size of the human brain. The Negroid brain is generally less fissured than the White and Mongoloid brain. See C.F. Connolly, “External Morphology of the Primate Brain”, (Thomas, Springfield, 1950); F.W. Vint, “The Brain of the Kenya Native”, Journal of Anatomy, vol.66, 1934; H.G. Garrett, “IQ and Race Differences”, (Howard Allen, Cape Canaveral, 1973), p.14.

    Sociobiologists have noted that during the last 20,000 years the upward trend in brain size has been reversed. Modern man has a smaller brain than the Cro-Magnons, by about 100-200 cubic cms. It is usually inferred that the Cro-Magnons were more intelligent than modern man: J.W. Jamieson, “Biological Diversity and Ethnic Identity: Changing Patterns in the Modern World”, The Mankind Quarterly, vol.36, 1995, pp.193-199; B. Chiarelli, “Some comments on the Evolution of Hominid Intelligence” The Mankind Quarterly, vol.37, 1996, pp.29-36. Yet could it be that with modern man evolution departed from pursuing quantity and pursued quality? Perhaps evolution pursued the path of neural efficiency rather than sheer brain size? We will never know the answer to that question because we do not have a Cro-Magnon brain to subject to neurological investigation.
     
    - https://thecross-roads.org/race-culture-nation/25-the-myth-of-east-asian-intellectual-supremacy

    I commented on this here:

    “Brain size has increased about 350% over human evolution, but we found that blood flow to the brain increased an amazing 600%,” project leader Roger Seymour, from the University of Adelaide, said in a statement. “We believe this is possibly related to the brain’s need to satisfy increasingly energetic connections between nerve cells that allowed the evolution of complex thinking and learning.
     
    - http://www.unz.com/jthompson/boost-your-iq/#comment-2085737

    I don't think reaction time is a good proxy for intelligence. In fact taller people often have slower reaction times due nerve impulses having to travel a greater distance than in shorter people. Mice for example have faster reaction times than elephants. Are mice smarter than elephants? A better proxy for intelligence, in my opinion, is hand-eye coordination:


    In a paper documenting the 20th century decline in reaction speed, scholar Irwin W. Silverman considers the confounding role of height. Height has increased by 1.5 standard deviations over the last 150 years, and this may be producing spuriously slow reaction times because nerve impulses have further to travel in a taller body. However Silverman seems to dismiss this possibility, citing research showing taller people have faster reaction times.

    However within generations, taller people tend to be genetically smarter than shorter people. This is thought to be because both height and intelligence (or at least its correlates: money, status) are socially valued, so people who have an above average amount of both, or either, tend to reproduce with one another, causing the genes for both to become associated. In addition, some of the same genes that influence height, may also influence intelligence. A related point is that short stature and low intelligence may both reflect genetic mutation load, or inbreeding depression.

    So the fact that the nerve impulse has further to travel in tall people may be completely negated by the fact that tall people have genetically faster brains. In other words, tall people may be so mentally quick, that they still perform well on reaction time tasks despite the test being physically biased against them.
     
    - https://brainsize.wordpress.com/2014/06/25/height-reaction-time-victorian-intelligence/


    Effect of height on motor coordination in college students participating in a dancesport program.
    Li X et al. (2015) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25743602
    [...]
    The height of students participating in sport dancing training had an impact on dancesport performance and motor coordination, counter to the traditional belief that shorter people have better coordination.
    [...]
    Motor Coordination Correlates with Academic Achievement and Cognitive Function in Children
    Valter R. Fernandes et al. (2016) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4792186/
     
    - http://www.unz.com/jthompson/womens-brains/#comment-1857667
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Ju Ahn
    You refuse to address the issue at hand man. You claimed average Chinese people have IQ of 79 which is barely any better than Africans. You also stated Lynn fabricated his data to inflate East Asian scores in order to not appear as a white supremacist. However, you failed to substantiate these outlandish statements with any reasonable evidence.

    Anyway, I can see you're a troll that cannot be reasoned with. You can believe average Chinese IQ = average African IQ despite what all the test scores are pointing to such as PISA, TIMSS, PIRLS and other IQ studies that have been conducted for respective populations.

    You also stated Lynn fabricated his data to inflate East Asian scores in order to not appear as a white supremacist. However, you failed to substantiate these outlandish statements with any reasonable evidence.

    I never personally stated that, I just quoted Afrosapiens. Even so, it seems a reasonable assumption to make, in my opinion, considering the (current) politically correct environment in the West. But you are correct he never specifically backs up this claim in the article.

    Here is the quote. It is in the fourth(4th) paragraph from the bottom:

    The manipulation is quite apparent, Lynn largely over-estimated China (+22), Japan (+7) to make East-Asians cluster on top, thus protecting himself from accusations of nordicism and giving support to the inter-cultural validity of the IQs that he cherry-picked. The western European and Russian data remained mostly unchanged. Vietnam (+11) and Thailand (+5) were given a bonus for their genetic proximity to North-East Asia that is supposed to make them score in the low 90s despite their lack of development. Little changes were brought to the scores of the Latin American, Middle-Eastern and Austronesian countries usually scoring in the mid-80s. Major fraud (+14 in Pakistan, +7 in Bangladesh) was done to lift up South-Asian countries out of the 70s range and excluding Sub-Saharan Africa as the only region scoring 70 or below and downgrading Nigeria (-4) and the DR. Congo (-7) in the process.

    https://notpoliticallycorrect.me/2017/09/05/worldwide-iq-estimates-based-on-education-data/

    Read More
    • Replies: @Ju Ahn
    I've already stated why # quoted by Afroscience is hoax.

    There are number of other factors affecting human intelligence than just education.

    1. Brain Size (East Asians have larger average brain size than Europeans)

    Row 2 gives results from the largest collection of skulls ever collected, numbering approximately 20,000, and shows that the East Asians had a larger brain size than the Europeans by l.2d (standard deviation units). Row 3 gives a difference of 20cc from a study of American 7-year-old children carried out by Broman, Nichols, Shaughnessy, and Kennedy (1987). ... Thus, all the studies except Morton's, revised by Gould shown in row 1, have found that the East Asians have larger average brain size than Europeans.
     
    2. Reaction Time (East Asians have faster average reaction time than Europeans)

    Reaction times consist of the speed of reaction to a simple stimulus such as the onset of a light. Many studies have shown that reaction times are positively related to intelligence at a magnitude of around 0.2 to 0.3 (see Jensen, 1998, and Deary, 2000) and it has been argued by Jensen (1998) that reaction times are a measure of the neurological efficiency of the brain in processing information. We saw in Chapter 4 that Africans have slower reaction times than Europeans consistent with their lower IQ. We consider now whether East Asians have faster reaction times than Europeans consistent with their higher IQs. ... The results of all three studies show that the magnitude of the advantage of East Asian children in reaction times representing the neurological efficiency of the brain in simple information processing is about two thirds of their advantage in intelligence. These studies also reported differences in reaction time variability and in movement times and these were of approximately the same magnitude as those of the reaction times. Jensen (1998) provides a more detailed description and discussion of these studies. Geary et al. (1997) have also reported faster reaction times and higher IQs in Chinese as compared with American children, but they do not give standard deviations so the difference cannot be expressed as a d.
     
    In addition, many actual IQ tests (not your let's just take number of education completed = IQ theory) quoted in Lynn's book and elsewhere confirm that East Asians have higher average IQ than Europeans.

    https://lesacreduprintemps19.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/lynn-race-differences-in-intelligence.pdf

    However, you can disregard all this and keep putting faith in your broscience or I would say white nationalist science rather than actual science if you prefer to keep it that way.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Ju Ahn
    You refuse to address the issue at hand man. You claimed average Chinese people have IQ of 79 which is barely any better than Africans. You also stated Lynn fabricated his data to inflate East Asian scores in order to not appear as a white supremacist. However, you failed to substantiate these outlandish statements with any reasonable evidence.

    Anyway, I can see you're a troll that cannot be reasoned with. You can believe average Chinese IQ = average African IQ despite what all the test scores are pointing to such as PISA, TIMSS, PIRLS and other IQ studies that have been conducted for respective populations.

    Afrosapiens estimates average Chinese IQ to be 84 not 79, and he puts African mean IQ at 72, which puts the average Chinese person 12 IQ points above the average African.


    To test the predictive power of my estimates in comparison to Lynn’s, I decided to focus only on the world’s 20 most populous countries. The reason for that is that these countries are home to 70% of the world’s population and the law of large numbers says that they are likely more representative of whatever they could represent. On the other hand, the 100+ other countries are home to only 30% of humanity. They are a source of statistical noise due to extreme outlying values and differences in regional political fragmentation that would hide or weaken general trends better evidenced by considering large countries.

    Source: https://notpoliticallycorrect.me/2017/09/05/worldwide-iq-estimates-based-on-education-data/

    Read More
    • Replies: @Yan Shen
    Anyone who claims that average Chinese IQ is 1 point below that of average African American IQ really has no credibility in my opinion.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @FKA Max

    I’m saying you’re adopting fake news because you’re disseminating false information of deriving IQ from number of years of education completed which is completely laughable.
     
    For the second time... this is not laughable. This is what Mr. Shen's article is all about “Hey, hey, hey, hey. This is library.” Why do you think the guy is studying in the library, because it is laughable and doesn't give one a competitive advantage on IQ, etc. tests, in intelligence competitions, and in life in general!?

    What is it? Is education virtuous or laughable?

    The reason East Asians do so well on IQ tests and in intelligence competitions, etc., is the same reason they have high rates of myopia, they spend a lot of time indoors studying from a young age on:

    East Asia has been gripped by an unprecedented rise in myopia, also known as short-sightedness. Sixty years ago, 10–20% of the Chinese population was short-sighted. Today, up to 90% of teenagers and young adults are. In Seoul, a whopping 96.5% of 19-year-old men are short-sighted.g age on:
    [...]
    “To put it crudely, myopia is not the ophthalmic sign of intelligence, rather it marks the striver”, says Alireza Mirshahi.
     
    - http://www.unz.com/freed/fun-with-iq-deep-thought/#comment-2095195

    You’re not addressing any of the points I’ve made to debunk your flawed and disingenuous argument regarding IQ
     
    I have supported my argument well, I believe, and cited several sources http://www.unz.com/article/americas-cultural-revolution-the-obsession-with-self-esteem/#comment-2294222 backing it up, which you, arrogantly, dismissed:


    But trying to figure someone’s intelligence by number of years of education completed is utter joke. The source you quoted is a joke.
     
    - http://www.unz.com/article/americas-cultural-revolution-the-obsession-with-self-esteem/#comment-2294265

    Correction: The *g age on* does not belong in this sentence In Seoul, a whopping 96.5% of 19-year-old men are short-sighted. Something went wrong with the pasting.

    Here another question for Mr. Ahn:

    Why do you think women choose well-educated sperm donors? Because it is funny and a joke to them?

    Of course not, they choose well-educated men because they believe it increases the chances of their child to be more intelligent, which gives it a competitive advantage they hope, because they see educational attainment as a proxy for higher intelligence. Are all intelligent persons highly educated, not necessarily, but on average they are these days:

    Young and well educated men in demand as sperm donors in global life market

    “Many women have more freedom than ever before when it comes to choosing who fathers their offspring and what we have found is that younger and more highly educated sperm donors are snapped up much faster.” – https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/07/160707100810.htm

    Also, as reported by Mr. Sailer; in Brazil women prefer white, blue eyed sperm donors, again, I believe because they select for intelligence:

    Denmark has long been the leading exporter of sperm for fertility clinics.

    Source: https://www.unz.com/isteve/brazilian-fertility-clinics-look-to-american-white-guys/

    Also, the blue-eyed phenotype is now abundant in Northern Europe and hence should have some kind of adaptive advantage, most likely one favored by sexual selection [43], [45], that compensates for the loss of perceived trustworthiness.

    Going by my formula, I believe the advantage offsetting the loss of perceived trustworthiness is intelligence/creativity/curiosity, plus a few other advantageous traits
    [...]
    Northern Europeans have the highest frequency of blue/light eyes and of the COMT Met allele in their populations which translates into higher levels of frontal lobe dopamine, which is a proxy for increased cerebral blood flow during rest, which in turn is a proxy for intelligence and creativity (see above study). If East Asians were not such hard-working students http://www.unz.com/freed/fun-with-iq-deep-thought/#comment-2095195 and were not performing so well on standardized IQ tests due to their studying habits th[e]n the global correlation between IQ and population COMT Met allele frequencies would be even higher, in my opinion

    http://www.unz.com/freed/fun-with-iq-deep-thought/#comment-2098254

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @FKA Max

    I’m saying you’re adopting fake news because you’re disseminating false information of deriving IQ from number of years of education completed which is completely laughable.
     
    For the second time... this is not laughable. This is what Mr. Shen's article is all about “Hey, hey, hey, hey. This is library.” Why do you think the guy is studying in the library, because it is laughable and doesn't give one a competitive advantage on IQ, etc. tests, in intelligence competitions, and in life in general!?

    What is it? Is education virtuous or laughable?

    The reason East Asians do so well on IQ tests and in intelligence competitions, etc., is the same reason they have high rates of myopia, they spend a lot of time indoors studying from a young age on:

    East Asia has been gripped by an unprecedented rise in myopia, also known as short-sightedness. Sixty years ago, 10–20% of the Chinese population was short-sighted. Today, up to 90% of teenagers and young adults are. In Seoul, a whopping 96.5% of 19-year-old men are short-sighted.g age on:
    [...]
    “To put it crudely, myopia is not the ophthalmic sign of intelligence, rather it marks the striver”, says Alireza Mirshahi.
     
    - http://www.unz.com/freed/fun-with-iq-deep-thought/#comment-2095195

    You’re not addressing any of the points I’ve made to debunk your flawed and disingenuous argument regarding IQ
     
    I have supported my argument well, I believe, and cited several sources http://www.unz.com/article/americas-cultural-revolution-the-obsession-with-self-esteem/#comment-2294222 backing it up, which you, arrogantly, dismissed:


    But trying to figure someone’s intelligence by number of years of education completed is utter joke. The source you quoted is a joke.
     
    - http://www.unz.com/article/americas-cultural-revolution-the-obsession-with-self-esteem/#comment-2294265

    You refuse to address the issue at hand man. You claimed average Chinese people have IQ of 79 which is barely any better than Africans. You also stated Lynn fabricated his data to inflate East Asian scores in order to not appear as a white supremacist. However, you failed to substantiate these outlandish statements with any reasonable evidence.

    Anyway, I can see you’re a troll that cannot be reasoned with. You can believe average Chinese IQ = average African IQ despite what all the test scores are pointing to such as PISA, TIMSS, PIRLS and other IQ studies that have been conducted for respective populations.

    Read More
    • Replies: @FKA Max
    Afrosapiens estimates average Chinese IQ to be 84 not 79, and he puts African mean IQ at 72, which puts the average Chinese person 12 IQ points above the average African.


    To test the predictive power of my estimates in comparison to Lynn’s, I decided to focus only on the world’s 20 most populous countries. The reason for that is that these countries are home to 70% of the world’s population and the law of large numbers says that they are likely more representative of whatever they could represent. On the other hand, the 100+ other countries are home to only 30% of humanity. They are a source of statistical noise due to extreme outlying values and differences in regional political fragmentation that would hide or weaken general trends better evidenced by considering large countries.


    https://notpolitcallycorrect.files.wordpress.com/2017/09/ranking.png

    https://notpolitcallycorrect.files.wordpress.com/2017/09/correlations.png

    Source: https://notpoliticallycorrect.me/2017/09/05/worldwide-iq-estimates-based-on-education-data/
    , @FKA Max

    You also stated Lynn fabricated his data to inflate East Asian scores in order to not appear as a white supremacist. However, you failed to substantiate these outlandish statements with any reasonable evidence.
     

    I never personally stated that, I just quoted Afrosapiens. Even so, it seems a reasonable assumption to make, in my opinion, considering the (current) politically correct environment in the West. But you are correct he never specifically backs up this claim in the article.

    Here is the quote. It is in the fourth(4th) paragraph from the bottom:


    The manipulation is quite apparent, Lynn largely over-estimated China (+22), Japan (+7) to make East-Asians cluster on top, thus protecting himself from accusations of nordicism and giving support to the inter-cultural validity of the IQs that he cherry-picked. The western European and Russian data remained mostly unchanged. Vietnam (+11) and Thailand (+5) were given a bonus for their genetic proximity to North-East Asia that is supposed to make them score in the low 90s despite their lack of development. Little changes were brought to the scores of the Latin American, Middle-Eastern and Austronesian countries usually scoring in the mid-80s. Major fraud (+14 in Pakistan, +7 in Bangladesh) was done to lift up South-Asian countries out of the 70s range and excluding Sub-Saharan Africa as the only region scoring 70 or below and downgrading Nigeria (-4) and the DR. Congo (-7) in the process.
     
    - https://notpoliticallycorrect.me/2017/09/05/worldwide-iq-estimates-based-on-education-data/
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Ju Ahn
    I'm saying you're adopting fake news because you're disseminating false information of deriving IQ from number of years of education completed which is completely laughable. You're not addressing any of the points I've made to debunk your flawed and disingenuous argument regarding IQ and just diverting the discussion into another matter which most dishonest people do.

    Notice the main point of my argument was regarding racial IQs which you pointed to several ridiculous data to make false points about, not some fake news controversy over facebook or other related matters regarding politics.

    I’m saying you’re adopting fake news because you’re disseminating false information of deriving IQ from number of years of education completed which is completely laughable.

    For the second time… this is not laughable. This is what Mr. Shen’s article is all about “Hey, hey, hey, hey. This is library.” Why do you think the guy is studying in the library, because it is laughable and doesn’t give one a competitive advantage on IQ, etc. tests, in intelligence competitions, and in life in general!?

    What is it? Is education virtuous or laughable?

    The reason East Asians do so well on IQ tests and in intelligence competitions, etc., is the same reason they have high rates of myopia, they spend a lot of time indoors studying from a young age on:

    East Asia has been gripped by an unprecedented rise in myopia, also known as short-sightedness. Sixty years ago, 10–20% of the Chinese population was short-sighted. Today, up to 90% of teenagers and young adults are. In Seoul, a whopping 96.5% of 19-year-old men are short-sighted.g age on:
    [...]
    “To put it crudely, myopia is not the ophthalmic sign of intelligence, rather it marks the striver”, says Alireza Mirshahi.

    http://www.unz.com/freed/fun-with-iq-deep-thought/#comment-2095195

    You’re not addressing any of the points I’ve made to debunk your flawed and disingenuous argument regarding IQ

    I have supported my argument well, I believe, and cited several sources http://www.unz.com/article/americas-cultural-revolution-the-obsession-with-self-esteem/#comment-2294222 backing it up, which you, arrogantly, dismissed:

    But trying to figure someone’s intelligence by number of years of education completed is utter joke. The source you quoted is a joke.

    http://www.unz.com/article/americas-cultural-revolution-the-obsession-with-self-esteem/#comment-2294265

    Read More
    • Replies: @Ju Ahn
    You refuse to address the issue at hand man. You claimed average Chinese people have IQ of 79 which is barely any better than Africans. You also stated Lynn fabricated his data to inflate East Asian scores in order to not appear as a white supremacist. However, you failed to substantiate these outlandish statements with any reasonable evidence.

    Anyway, I can see you're a troll that cannot be reasoned with. You can believe average Chinese IQ = average African IQ despite what all the test scores are pointing to such as PISA, TIMSS, PIRLS and other IQ studies that have been conducted for respective populations.

    , @FKA Max
    Correction: The *g age on* does not belong in this sentence In Seoul, a whopping 96.5% of 19-year-old men are short-sighted. Something went wrong with the pasting.

    Here another question for Mr. Ahn:

    Why do you think women choose well-educated sperm donors? Because it is funny and a joke to them?

    Of course not, they choose well-educated men because they believe it increases the chances of their child to be more intelligent, which gives it a competitive advantage they hope, because they see educational attainment as a proxy for higher intelligence. Are all intelligent persons highly educated, not necessarily, but on average they are these days:

    Young and well educated men in demand as sperm donors in global life market

    "Many women have more freedom than ever before when it comes to choosing who fathers their offspring and what we have found is that younger and more highly educated sperm donors are snapped up much faster." - https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/07/160707100810.htm

    Also, as reported by Mr. Sailer; in Brazil women prefer white, blue eyed sperm donors, again, I believe because they select for intelligence:

    Denmark has long been the leading exporter of sperm for fertility clinics.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DY6ppKEW4AEhZc8.jpg

    Source: https://www.unz.com/isteve/brazilian-fertility-clinics-look-to-american-white-guys/

    Also, the blue-eyed phenotype is now abundant in Northern Europe and hence should have some kind of adaptive advantage, most likely one favored by sexual selection [43], [45], that compensates for the loss of perceived trustworthiness.

    Going by my formula, I believe the advantage offsetting the loss of perceived trustworthiness is intelligence/creativity/curiosity, plus a few other advantageous traits
    [...]
    Northern Europeans have the highest frequency of blue/light eyes and of the COMT Met allele in their populations which translates into higher levels of frontal lobe dopamine, which is a proxy for increased cerebral blood flow during rest, which in turn is a proxy for intelligence and creativity (see above study). If East Asians were not such hard-working students http://www.unz.com/freed/fun-with-iq-deep-thought/#comment-2095195 and were not performing so well on standardized IQ tests due to their studying habits th[e]n the global correlation between IQ and population COMT Met allele frequencies would be even higher, in my opinion
     
    - http://www.unz.com/freed/fun-with-iq-deep-thought/#comment-2098254
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @FKA Max
    Typo: He is a *Haitian* living in France engaged to a Jewish woman.

    As you noticed it, my interest in the posts about blacks and especially West African blacks is linked to my ethnic background. I’m an Haïtian Black adopted by White Gallo-Roman Catholic parents which in France stands for White Anglo-Saxon Protestant in the USA. It means more than white, it means the native ancestral dominant elite stock, “la crème de la crème” in other words. If you want to make an analogy with the US, I don’t react here as a black person but rather as typical liberal New Englander.
    [...]
    I was born in the worst slum of Port-au-Prince and now I’m just starting a professional career at 23, I’m starting as a lawyer by September. I don’t do it for money but for self-fulfillment, I don’t need to earn money because I’m already wealthy, not by birth but by adoption and it feels totally different as I know how short I fell of living a life of slum dweller. Now I have a master’s degree and I grew up in an environment that engineered me for excellence.
     
    - https://robertlindsay.wordpress.com/2015/08/01/new-author-afrosapiens/

    Why Is Barbados So Civilized?
    [...]
    I think an important distinction has to [b]e made between Catholic/French/Belgian, etc. and Protestant/British/Dutch, etc. colonies here, when it comes to the promotion or prohibition of birth control, etc. and what kind of effect this has had on the difference in observed levels of civility and violence these nations exhibit even today. In my experience, even majority-African populations can be relatively civilized and prosperous if they have the combination and follow the formula of a lower fertility rate and a higher median age population. This demographic combination has a civilizing and pacifying effect on any culture and people, no matter the genetic, racial predisposition towards aggression, impulsivity, etc. due to a higher prevalence of “warrior gene”
    [...]
    Compare Protestant/British Barbados’ fertility rate history (currently it has a fertility rate of ~1.84)
    [...]
    to Catholic/French Haiti’s fertility rate history (currently it has a fertility rate of ~2.8)

     

    - http://www.unz.com/article/thoughts-on-decolonization-as-an-anti-white-discourse/#comment-2076646

    The same applies to China, without the 1 Child policy implemented China would not be at the stage of economic, etc. development it is today:

    The population policy of only 1 child for each couple was proposed for the longterm benefit of China and its people and because of the urgent demand of the 4 modernizations. The indication of the achievement of the 4 modernizations by the end of the 20th century is a per capita income of 1000 United States dollars. To reach the $1000 figure, the per capita income needs to be increased 3-fold. This is a difficult task, and to realize it effort must be placed on both material production and population control.
    – https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12311034
     
    - http://www.unz.com/isteve/those-who-never-noticed-the-past-are-condemned-to-repeat-it/#comment-2207049

    When the president of Beijing University warned about the danger of rapid population growth, he was denounced and relieved of his responsibilities. Overpopulation could only be a problem in evil capitalist societies — never in a socialist paradise. China was already overpopulated in 1949, and it grew with spooky speed. Mao refused to believe the census numbers. In 1958, family planning programs were ended, and not resumed until 1971. Mao died in 1976, and in 1979, the one-child policy was implemented.

    http://www.china-profile.com/data/figures/fig_WPP2010_TotPop_TFR_1.gif

    Source: http://www.unz.com/article/mao-reconsidered/#comment-2045728

    Great thinking out-of-the-box posts on this thread.

    That that Afrosapiens guy can be so articulate and intelligent by growing up in the right environment, yet being born in a black slum….

    Surely it’s impossible…genes are genes, twin studies after all…

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    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Tyrion 2
    There's a great many more Eastern people living in each Western* country than there are Western people living in each Eastern country. Nor is this a mere historical artefact as immigration continues to be extremely one-sided.

    Your posts, though I find much to agree with, seem to deny every possible reasonable explanation for this fact.

    I am wondering what is left?

    *Western = native Western European and settled by Western Europeans.

    The points is that many WNs or some other conservative white people are making false arguments about unfair treatments they would face in East Asia if they were to migrate there. However, much of the observed discrepancies arise from white people’s unwillingness to move to East Asia as opposed to the mythical racist policies adopted in East Asian nations. This in conjunction with white people’s unwillingness to adopt Asian language and culture are larger reason that white people do not assimilate as well in East Asian countries rather than any flagrant racism exhibited by native East Asian populations.

    So, WNs are really using white people’s unwillingness to move to East Asia as defense to justify some of the discriminatory policies that exist or might exist in the west. However, most East Asian people are here (in the West) legally as white people in the East do. And East Asian people often adopt European languages (English), culture, and religion (many are even Christians). WNs also sometimes give objection to East Asian people speaking our own language and cooking our own food at home. But I observe plenty of French or Quebec Canadian people speaking French in public, or Eastern Europeans speaking Russian or other languages. As for our foods, Europeans raided SE Asia centuries ago for their spices and adopted elements of Eastern cuisine quite willingly and through many troubles undertaken voluntarily. They also threatened East Asian ports with their modern weapons to force trades and adopted Chinese tea and other culinary practices. British people also willingly opened Indian restaurants in their own country.

    I agree with you that that are more Asian people in the west than Europeans on the west. However, I’m going to tell you that Europeans meddle on the affairs of East Asian countries much more despite their lower numbers. All the time Europeans human and animal rights organizations try to influence East Asian policies despite not being there. Amnesty tells East Asian countries to abolish death penalties, and animal rights groups tell us to not eat dogs or cats. Some Europeans also complain about large influx of Muslims and how they influence policies. However, Europeans affect middle eastern politics much more through involvement in Israel and War in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Syria yet again. In addition, European nations threaten countries like North Korea and Iran about nuclear disarmament. I’m not saying I disagree with these policies, but Europeans are impacting Asian nations much more than they claim to be doing.

    In summary, I find that such arguments put forth by WNs to be very duplicitous and lacking in depth. They just compare the number of population in each side and hastily draw conclusion that Asian are trying to change their ways of life; However, Europeans have already wreaked havoc in other cultures in the past and is continuing to do so today.

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  • @FKA Max

    It is laughable how you quote some data cooked up by some WN to further their propaganda.
     
    He is a Hatian living in France engaged to a Jewish woman. He is no white nationalist.

    That’s only in your dreams. I’m Haitian-born, I have not grown up to speak creole or practice voodoo, not even a slight West Indian accent or a propensity for superstition. I went several times to Haiti and I didn’t tell myself “Oh, I’m finally finding my people”. They were foreigners (or more accurately: I was a foreigner), as foreign as Russians or Javanese. And there is no need to be adopted to realize this. My fiancée is French of Moroccan Jewish ancestry, Israeli are foreigners to her, even if they’re Moroccan too. Because the way she/we live is French and very little else.
     
    - http://www.unz.com/jthompson/the-worlds-iq-86/#comment-2066137

    White nationalists usually cite and quote Richard Lynn like you do.

    Propensity to believe false news or reports like this without questioning is a sign of low IQ and also the reason why we had so much controversy about fake news on facebook during presidential elections.
     
    Pure HC propaganda...

    Han Chauvinism/Exceptionalism: The Problem with it

    Western observers often measure China’s racial composition and relations based on a Western scale, looking for an Eastern equivalent to white supremacy. This is easily found in “Han chauvinism” and the overwhelming presence of Han Chinese in all upper echelon positions of power throughout the country.

    Mao’s campaign against “Han chauvinism” was not a material success. Ethnic minority groups seeking independence or cultural autonomy were deemed counter-revolutionary and collectively punished. The superiority of the Han was obscured by class struggle. Bigoted language and straightforward expressions of racial superiority were replaced with condescending views on revolution.
     
    - https://saisobserver.org/2014/04/07/han-chauvinismexceptionalism-the-problem-with-han-chauvinism/

    Typo: He is a *Haitian* living in France engaged to a Jewish woman.

    As you noticed it, my interest in the posts about blacks and especially West African blacks is linked to my ethnic background. I’m an Haïtian Black adopted by White Gallo-Roman Catholic parents which in France stands for White Anglo-Saxon Protestant in the USA. It means more than white, it means the native ancestral dominant elite stock, “la crème de la crème” in other words. If you want to make an analogy with the US, I don’t react here as a black person but rather as typical liberal New Englander.
    [...]
    I was born in the worst slum of Port-au-Prince and now I’m just starting a professional career at 23, I’m starting as a lawyer by September. I don’t do it for money but for self-fulfillment, I don’t need to earn money because I’m already wealthy, not by birth but by adoption and it feels totally different as I know how short I fell of living a life of slum dweller. Now I have a master’s degree and I grew up in an environment that engineered me for excellence.

    https://robertlindsay.wordpress.com/2015/08/01/new-author-afrosapiens/

    Why Is Barbados So Civilized?
    [...]
    I think an important distinction has to [b]e made between Catholic/French/Belgian, etc. and Protestant/British/Dutch, etc. colonies here, when it comes to the promotion or prohibition of birth control, etc. and what kind of effect this has had on the difference in observed levels of civility and violence these nations exhibit even today. In my experience, even majority-African populations can be relatively civilized and prosperous if they have the combination and follow the formula of a lower fertility rate and a higher median age population. This demographic combination has a civilizing and pacifying effect on any culture and people, no matter the genetic, racial predisposition towards aggression, impulsivity, etc. due to a higher prevalence of “warrior gene”
    [...]
    Compare Protestant/British Barbados’ fertility rate history (currently it has a fertility rate of ~1.84)
    [...]
    to Catholic/French Haiti’s fertility rate history (currently it has a fertility rate of ~2.8)

    http://www.unz.com/article/thoughts-on-decolonization-as-an-anti-white-discourse/#comment-2076646

    The same applies to China, without the 1 Child policy implemented China would not be at the stage of economic, etc. development it is today:

    The population policy of only 1 child for each couple was proposed for the longterm benefit of China and its people and because of the urgent demand of the 4 modernizations. The indication of the achievement of the 4 modernizations by the end of the 20th century is a per capita income of 1000 United States dollars. To reach the $1000 figure, the per capita income needs to be increased 3-fold. This is a difficult task, and to realize it effort must be placed on both material production and population control.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12311034

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/those-who-never-noticed-the-past-are-condemned-to-repeat-it/#comment-2207049

    When the president of Beijing University warned about the danger of rapid population growth, he was denounced and relieved of his responsibilities. Overpopulation could only be a problem in evil capitalist societies — never in a socialist paradise. China was already overpopulated in 1949, and it grew with spooky speed. Mao refused to believe the census numbers. In 1958, family planning programs were ended, and not resumed until 1971. Mao died in 1976, and in 1979, the one-child policy was implemented.

    Source: http://www.unz.com/article/mao-reconsidered/#comment-2045728

    Read More
    • Replies: @AaronB
    Great thinking out-of-the-box posts on this thread.

    That that Afrosapiens guy can be so articulate and intelligent by growing up in the right environment, yet being born in a black slum....

    Surely it's impossible...genes are genes, twin studies after all...
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Regardless of whether or not HBD is valid, I do think there’s a lot to be said for adopting the right cultural values and attitudes and basically working to maximize the most of what you’re born with. You really can’t ask for more than for each person to give their absolute best effort.

    This also has the additional plus that just in case the strong hereditarian position isn’t quite as correct as we might assume it to be, you’ve put in the required work as well to get more output than what you might’ve expected under a strong HBD assumption

    This has got to be the sanest , healthiest, and most moral approach towards cultural revitalization I have read on this site. The role of effort – or if you will, character – has got to be reemphasized. The obsessive focus on genes has got to go be moderated with an appreciation for personal agency.

    White people should also focus on rebuilding social capital within their communities, as motivation simply cannot be generated in a vacuum.

    I’m personally skeptical that the IQ difference between whites and Asians reflects anything more substantial than the role of effort and character, and the same goes for the supposed Asian skew towards technology – but who knows? I may well be wrong.

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  • @Anon

    Goodness, I hope you’re not China’s best and brightest. Your reasoning is not great.

    Oh my god. I’m equally stupid. My mistake in my calculations is out as much as yours. Ha.
     
    Of course i can never be China best, otherwise I won't be talking to a idiot like you but busy doing my research or administrating the country.

    Indeed you have revealed your pigheaded & snobbish character repeatedly. Why not try reading/accepting others' comments from beginning humbly, than to stubbornly stick to your flawed argument.

    How can you be equally stupid when all you have ranted are moronic argument & calculation.

    You suggested by your own bragged direct China experience that only top 10% of Chinese can afford $80k pa study expenses. I believe its higher considering highly uneven wealth distribution in urban vs rural, still better than US 1% controlling most wealth.

    Now been pointed out, 10% 1.4B=140M. Even 1% sending under performing kid is 1.4M. Isn't that big enough to stop your further bragging?

    Yet again you exhibit such obstinate behavior in sticking to your idiotic assertion of "Only Best Chinese can study in US" , with repeated silly argument of China is no better than Botswana or Dominican republic. What a fool you have make yourself here.

    Furthermore, there is zero reason to suspect that these are selected from the least able of their pool. Such a huge investment in your child’s education is unlikely to be made on entirely barren soil.

    I’d wager that in any society almost all of the top 10% earner’s children score above average on IQ tests.

    Even the English students who go to the US are brighter than average.
     
    Again you make a joke of yourself.

    Can you understand what is Best and above average IQ with your good English?

    You are trying to muddle your argument now to wiggle out in such pathetic way like a typical jews. Sorry, i am never antisemitic, but your behavior call for it.

    In your logic, if above average Chinese is joining the best uni in US & UK, West is doomed. Because then we are talking about best West uni elites are equivalent to the 700M above average Chinese back in China.

    So it comes back to what everyone is telling you from beginning;

    1. Wealthy chinese is plenty in hundreds of millions. That is half of US or twice UK!

    2. Only the 2nd best after unable to enter China good uni, descend to US soil with some rich spoil brats that don't graduate eventually, like Asia richest man Li KaSeng's son & Bo Xilai's son in Harvard.

    3. Post graduate are possibly true elites been sent selectively for specific field study. They will mostly return for a more rewarding career back home.

    Conclusion: US isn't getting the Best Chinese. otherwise we are already drinking coffee in the moon with combined best talents & unlimited access of technology in US.

    If you are indeed the brightest jews of US/UK, we are doomed & hopeless. Which is why the West is declining into such a cesspool filled with clowns & shameless liars in WH/ UK parliament, ruled by the jews, bleeding trillions & dying for Israel's Kingdom.

    Your point is already debunked as I’ve pointed out that there are many Chinese students who were Chinese International Mathematical Olympiad (IMO) team members studying or have studied in U.S. universities as undergraduate students.

    These people are truly the best and brightest of the China as they’re top 6 people handpicked yearly from their high school population to represent their country in student Olympics of Mathematics.

    In addition, 100 million in China is less than 10% of Chinese population. That point doesn’t disprove that majority of Chinese people still aren’t rich. No one is arguing Chinese people aren’t numerous and there are many intelligent and wealthy people among them just due to their sheer numbers. Chinese commentators often engage in this type of confused or dishonest behavior trying to conflate large numbers with averages.

    Same thing happened many years ago when the PISA score of Shanghai first came out. Chinese commentators tried to use those data to somehow prove Han superiority. However, it is obvious that using data points from the metropolitan area as a representative sample of the entire nation is ridiculous. Few years after, the results from the rest of the China came out, and China did not outperform its East Asian neighbors such as South Korea and Japan much to the dismay of Han chauvinists.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon
    Do you understand difference betw Troll & discussing of facts & views? Otherwise all your comments should be flagged as troll too.

    I can understand Tyrion marked my factual comment as troll out of agitation after been shame publicly. Daniel & Yan Seng are true blood Chinese, and regular contributors of meaningful comments. Yet Tyrion is trying to arguing foolishly, that's the reason i make a unpleasant comment. But my apology to him, i could use more gentle way without touching on jews.

    Now i will response to your comment while i still have some free time.

    Chinese commentators often engage in this type of confused or dishonest behavior trying to conflate large numbers with averages.
     
    First, i am not related to China, so my comment is objective & more neutral. That answered your ad homein comment.

    In addition, 100 million in China is less than 10% of Chinese population. That point doesn’t disprove that majority of Chinese people still aren’t rich.
     
    That 10% is based on Tyrion bragging of his China experience that make him wildly believed he got better understanding than true Chinese. So are you?

    Where did anyone said all Chinese are rich, pls point out. What is been consistently highlighted is even top10% rich is 140M, a huge huge number of rich. No?

    Tell me how many Koreans is rich vs poverty when jobless rate is pretty high now. Even in Japan, i am seeing many homeless sleeping in train stations and scavenging rubbish bins for food, with old folks shoplifting as they are too ashamed to beg. A high % are working as low pay contract worker now. No? Try read up abit.

    Wealth distribution is very wide in this globalization world, the rich simply get richer. While i live so comfortably, my charity work with poors always humbled me that there are always bottom 20% living in such unbelievable poverty.

    Nearly all developed countries have bottom 20% live in poverty, many are homeless & regularly have not enough food. Try search abit starting from US, UK, Oz, Nz, Canada, EU, Japan, Korea, Singapore, Taiwan, HK, …all have 20% poverty. And China is aiming at eradicating poverty entirely of its last 40M by 2020, how marvellous, 1.4B people free from extreme poverty.

    China wealth is very unevenly distributed due to break neck growth. The pay between urban & rural is very wide, I would believe up to 20% of urban Chinese is holding the majority wealth. That is 280M, nearly twice of Japan. That's what we consistently emphasized, the Chinese rich can afford US study is simply plentiful.

    How about US? Combined rich of the top few equivalent to the bottom 50%, 1% is holding the majority wealth. So GDP(ppp) per capital can be deceiving.

    Your point is already debunked as I’ve pointed out that there are many Chinese students who were Chinese International Mathematical Olympiad (IMO) team members studying or have studied in U.S. universities as undergraduate students.
     
    You should have adequate ability to understand different between BEST & Good /Above Average. Those joining IMO might be good in maths doesn't equate that they are the Best overall. Just because that few IMO representatives are studying in US, it don't implied hundreds of of thousands Chinese students studying in US are the Best. No? What have you to debunk?

    If you asked every true blood Chinese(not ABC), they will consistently tell you those undergrad study in China ivory uni are their best, but not the post grad. This is the Chinese way of life not up to you or me to determine.

    They compete fiercely to enter their best local uni which they prided as best, when unable, the wealthy one (100~300M) will go to US/UK. So majority in US is at best only 2nd grade, not 1st grade, while some are rich princelings.

    And 3rd grade went to Oz/Nz uni, some stay on while some proceed to US/UK ivory for postgrad.

    4th grade is dumped in Singapore or Japan under free scholarship. Yet these 4th grade proceed to achieve 1st class honor in NUS/NTU STEM courses (Top5 in world ranking).

    In Singapore, only Top20% of Cambridge GCE "A" graduate enter STEM course in NTU/NUS under gov quota system. Only Top 3~5% of ungrad cohort will be granted 1st class honor.

    You might want to know, Singapore Cambridge Uni GCE "A" Level for uni enrolment has to be segregated from UK GCE A paper, mark with much higher standard. Reason been if to grade altogether, all Spore students will get straight distinctions if to pass UK students within acceptable margin, or majority UK students will fail the exam. That's how wide margin. Its no coincident Spore is scoring Top in IQ, SAT, IMO, etc. year after year.

    Yet 80% could not make it to 2 top local uni STEM. If affordable, some proceed to overseas study to get their distinction/medals, surprisingly. But the real cream will apply for prestige gov scholarship to study in ivory uni of US/UK for career reason.

    Those rejected by NUS medical course (annual 200 quota), will get Gold Medal or top distinction in West uni to be awarded scholarship/fellowship in ivory uni. In Malaysia, its even much more competitive for the Chinese ethnics to enrol in top local uni due to race discrimination.

    So its not surprising that even China 2nd grade is outperforming most in West uni, considering their 4th grade can excel even in highly competitive Spore education system, which has a proven academic achievement track record well surpass all OECD countries including SK.

    And these highly performing Spore Chinese diaspora are what Spore PM Lee Kuan Yew said to China Deng Xiao Peng : "We are the descendants of your poor peasants. You are the true elites. What we can achieve, China can sure do much better."

    I am speaking from direct experience with these academic students, not based on speculation & pride like Tyrion or you.

    So what are you trying to debunk then with your own tinted view?

    Same thing happened many years ago when the PISA score of Shanghai first came out. Chinese commentators tried to use those data to somehow prove Han superiority. However, it is obvious that using data points from the metropolitan area as a representative sample of the entire nation is ridiculous. Few years after, the results from the rest of the China came out, and China did not outperform its East Asian neighbors such as South Korea and Japan much to the dismay of Han chauvinists.
     
    What make you think all other cities will not develop into another Shanghai or Beijing in due course as China progress into parity of Japan & SK?

    Shenzhen was transformed from a village to most vibrant SV within 20yrs, surpassing HK GDP from nothing. They simply has the unparalleled number & quality to duplicate tens/hundred of HK/Spore if given peaceful rise.

    Chinese is not dismayed as what you said been not outperforming SK or Japan in country wide test. They understood China is a huge country of 1.4B people with uneven distribution under dynamic growth & restructuring.

    If they will to compare using major cities that reach similar living standard of Japan & SK, they will remain very competitive if not well surpassing.

    I will share with you some history I learned from older humble South Koreans I worked with to satisfy your Korean chauvinism, since many young Koreans now believed they are smarter than Chinese & have largely arrived because US decided to prop up its lackey SK economic abit like Japan for countering China as well as for US ripping.

    SKorean even tried to distort history to say Chinese copied their culture, tradition costumes, writings, Traditional Chinese Medicine 中医 has now become 韩医. That pissed off Chinese that make them shunned Korean drama.

    If you are old enough, you should know Korean writing is make for illiterate farmer usage. The elites traditionally used old Chinese writing, with Confucianism as their highest elitism. Most older Korean elites still write Chinese well. They copied superior Tang(?) Dynasty Chinese old costumes & culture, civilization, architecture, everything wholesale with some errors or modification like Japanese.

    But during Japanese colonial era, Korean emperor wanted to use their own writing for nationalism, which is what we are seeing now, the improved version of farmer writing. No?

    Talk about civilization, talent & technical capability. I had worked in Samsung, the best SK coporate, and understand abit on LG & Hyundai in some dealings which are so much poorly managed than Samsung. I can clearly said, Korea capability & civilization nowhere near to Japanese 60%. You may disagree, but its reality.

    Hint: With complete free access to West technology & materials, well funded SK repeatedly failed to launch even a rocket (bought from Russia) successfully for satellite launching trial, while their heavily sanctioned NK kins already long completed launching their satellite with indigenous design & develop rockets, even with intercontinental ability now. Japan is also struggling with this rocket technology, but better thsn Korean.

    Why? NK is actually majority Hans ethnic after the devastating Korean war. This is what i heard, no offend.

    Some Chinese told (from their old Korean war vets) the war was fought so ferociously by brave Koreans against the excessively overpowering US allied, nearly all NK men were killed. When the survived Chinese soldiers removed the dead soldiers uniform(reused), many were women sent to fight after all men were decimated. Korean is a fighter race that even Hans find difficult to subjugate.

    After the war, Mao let most Chinese soldiers stay in NK to rebuild & repopulate. The NK is essentially Hans descendants now. So they are as good as Chinese. If given free access to technology & no sanction, they might able to even roll out 5th Gen Fighter Jets or aerospace program like Chinese, with prosperous economy. Under 50yrs heavy sanctions, they still manage to deliver a impressive GDP growth, & nation wide free stella healthcare & education.

    SK dreamed to do 5th Gen Fighter with Indonesia, but couldn't even visualize a outline. Similarly, Japan has given up their Xinshen 5th Gen Jet project after knowing their capability limit. So what's more to talk about aerospace technology in sending human into space.

    IQ or SAT is only a gauging tool for uni selection. The true talented race can only be revealed in their achievements, like Russian, Germans, Chinese, North Indians(Pak), Jews, and some Europeans. US is simply a melting pot of all these races. Korean & Japanese are never.

    Btw, Japanese colleague told me themselves, they are actually Manchus descendants. The real indigenous is Ainu, short dark hairy skin farmer race. So they are essentially what Chinese Hans called, the Manchus, uncivilized North Barbarian.

    Now you can flagged me as troll again if you feel pride hurt. You ask for it, so i reply with hard facts.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @FKA Max
    What you and the (predominantly Jewish) elite media establishment consider to be chaotic, disruptive "fake news", most (predominantly white European) Americans define as creative, dynamic "free speech". They see it as a strength NOT a weakness.

    The utilitarian defense of and justification for free speech is as follows:

    Case 1: The minority view turns out to be true (e.g. Galileo’s statement that the earth revolves around the sun) and the majority view (the earth-centered universe) is false. In this case, it should be obvious that allowing the minority view to be expressed is beneficial to the whole of our society.

    Case 2: The minority view is partially true and partially false. For example, suppose one were to argue that evolution never occurred. Even though this claim defies both a lot of evidence which supports various theories of evolution and it also brings the theory of natural selection under perhaps unjustifiable scrutiny, it nevertheless forces defenders of of various theories of evolution to reexamine both their methods (e.g. carbon dating) and their theoretical commitments (e.g. micro vs. macro evolution). Since the vast majority of social issues, and many accepted scientific theories (e.g. “Big Bang” theory) have at least a ‘touch of gray’, hearing a variety of views forces those who defend them to sharpen and enliven their arguments.

    Case 3: The minority view is false and the received view is true. For example, suppose a scholar were to write a book defending the thesis that slavery never happened in the United States. Why should we even tolerate such an outlandish view?

    1. Even though the scholar’s claims are false, again this forces us to revisit and perhaps rediscover much of the evidence we have documenting the history of slavery. This in turn informs both the way we do history, the way we accept truth claims, and the way we view the present.

    2. The falseness of the scholar’s claims actually strengthens many of our commonly received views about not just the fact of slavery, but it’s legacy also.
     
    - https://theantiochvoice.wordpress.com/2012/06/08/a-utilitarian-defense-of-free-speech-on-college-campuses/

    As John Kerry stated:

    Americans Have The Right To Be Stupid - John Kerry U.S. Secretary of State

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5twSqDZRdiA

    On Einstein, I recommend to check out the following research:

    Albert Einstein, Karl Marx and Sigmund Freud Exposed!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4v-OuwdW6U

    Source: https://www.unz.com/jthompson/pavlov-nowhere/#comment-1741720

    On height:

    I just wanted to add one little caveat. During a mass Australian IQ test back in 2002, the results actually showed, that the people in the 180cm-200cm height range had the highest average scores, whereas the more than 201cm tall group only came in third place.
    [...]
    What this could indicate, is that beyond a certain height/weight it might be harder for the cardio-vascular system to keep up with properly supplying the brain, etc. with oxygen, nutrients, etc.
     
    - http://www.unz.com/isteve/the-flynn-effect-for-height/#comment-1855060

    Han Chauvinism/Exceptionalism : What It Means

    The glory of the ancient Chinese empire has long encouraged the Chinese people to see themselves as above all other races. The “civilized/barbarian” distinction (“蛮夷之辩”) of ancient China is a perfect example of this attitude of racial superiority. It was China’s encounter with the Western civilization during the 19th and 20th centuries that forced Chinese people to change such conceptions of themselves. They came to realize their self-pride could not hide the backwardness of Chinese society in the face of the advanced Western technologies.
    [...]
    According to this interpretation, Han is an exceptional ethnical group which cannot find an equal counterpart in this globalized world.
     
    - https://saisobserver.org/2014/04/07/han-chauvinismexceptionalism-what-it-means/

    I think China, the Chinese and the world in general would benefit if the Chinese state were to emphasize its Taoist roots more than its Confucian traditions.

    Taoism differs from Confucianism by not emphasizing rigid rituals and social order.
    - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taoism


    I also wanted to add, that I admire traditional Chinese culture. I have been studying Feng Shui for over 15+ years now.

    What we see today as Sinic/Chinese culture/civilization is really the Chinese Communist Party civilization/culture and not traditional Chinese civilization/culture, in my opinion. However, most Chinese coming over here to the U.S. have the Chinese Communist Party/Social Darwinist/cram school mindset, instead of the Feng Shui mindset.

    Maybe, if Sinic Civilization was more based on Feng Shui principles again, like in Hong Kong and in Taiwan, it would be more compatible and have less of an adversarial relationship with Western Civilization? I think/believe so.
     
    - http://www.unz.com/isteve/reforming-stuyvesant-hs-admissions-should-blacks-whites-team-up-against-asian-grinds/#comment-1810979

    I’m saying you’re adopting fake news because you’re disseminating false information of deriving IQ from number of years of education completed which is completely laughable. You’re not addressing any of the points I’ve made to debunk your flawed and disingenuous argument regarding IQ and just diverting the discussion into another matter which most dishonest people do.

    Notice the main point of my argument was regarding racial IQs which you pointed to several ridiculous data to make false points about, not some fake news controversy over facebook or other related matters regarding politics.

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    • Replies: @FKA Max

    I’m saying you’re adopting fake news because you’re disseminating false information of deriving IQ from number of years of education completed which is completely laughable.
     
    For the second time... this is not laughable. This is what Mr. Shen's article is all about “Hey, hey, hey, hey. This is library.” Why do you think the guy is studying in the library, because it is laughable and doesn't give one a competitive advantage on IQ, etc. tests, in intelligence competitions, and in life in general!?

    What is it? Is education virtuous or laughable?

    The reason East Asians do so well on IQ tests and in intelligence competitions, etc., is the same reason they have high rates of myopia, they spend a lot of time indoors studying from a young age on:

    East Asia has been gripped by an unprecedented rise in myopia, also known as short-sightedness. Sixty years ago, 10–20% of the Chinese population was short-sighted. Today, up to 90% of teenagers and young adults are. In Seoul, a whopping 96.5% of 19-year-old men are short-sighted.g age on:
    [...]
    “To put it crudely, myopia is not the ophthalmic sign of intelligence, rather it marks the striver”, says Alireza Mirshahi.
     
    - http://www.unz.com/freed/fun-with-iq-deep-thought/#comment-2095195

    You’re not addressing any of the points I’ve made to debunk your flawed and disingenuous argument regarding IQ
     
    I have supported my argument well, I believe, and cited several sources http://www.unz.com/article/americas-cultural-revolution-the-obsession-with-self-esteem/#comment-2294222 backing it up, which you, arrogantly, dismissed:


    But trying to figure someone’s intelligence by number of years of education completed is utter joke. The source you quoted is a joke.
     
    - http://www.unz.com/article/americas-cultural-revolution-the-obsession-with-self-esteem/#comment-2294265
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @FKA Max
    What you and the (predominantly Jewish) elite media establishment consider to be chaotic, disruptive "fake news", most (predominantly white European) Americans define as creative, dynamic "free speech". They see it as a strength NOT a weakness.

    The utilitarian defense of and justification for free speech is as follows:

    Case 1: The minority view turns out to be true (e.g. Galileo’s statement that the earth revolves around the sun) and the majority view (the earth-centered universe) is false. In this case, it should be obvious that allowing the minority view to be expressed is beneficial to the whole of our society.

    Case 2: The minority view is partially true and partially false. For example, suppose one were to argue that evolution never occurred. Even though this claim defies both a lot of evidence which supports various theories of evolution and it also brings the theory of natural selection under perhaps unjustifiable scrutiny, it nevertheless forces defenders of of various theories of evolution to reexamine both their methods (e.g. carbon dating) and their theoretical commitments (e.g. micro vs. macro evolution). Since the vast majority of social issues, and many accepted scientific theories (e.g. “Big Bang” theory) have at least a ‘touch of gray’, hearing a variety of views forces those who defend them to sharpen and enliven their arguments.

    Case 3: The minority view is false and the received view is true. For example, suppose a scholar were to write a book defending the thesis that slavery never happened in the United States. Why should we even tolerate such an outlandish view?

    1. Even though the scholar’s claims are false, again this forces us to revisit and perhaps rediscover much of the evidence we have documenting the history of slavery. This in turn informs both the way we do history, the way we accept truth claims, and the way we view the present.

    2. The falseness of the scholar’s claims actually strengthens many of our commonly received views about not just the fact of slavery, but it’s legacy also.
     
    - https://theantiochvoice.wordpress.com/2012/06/08/a-utilitarian-defense-of-free-speech-on-college-campuses/

    As John Kerry stated:

    Americans Have The Right To Be Stupid - John Kerry U.S. Secretary of State

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5twSqDZRdiA

    On Einstein, I recommend to check out the following research:

    Albert Einstein, Karl Marx and Sigmund Freud Exposed!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4v-OuwdW6U

    Source: https://www.unz.com/jthompson/pavlov-nowhere/#comment-1741720

    On height:

    I just wanted to add one little caveat. During a mass Australian IQ test back in 2002, the results actually showed, that the people in the 180cm-200cm height range had the highest average scores, whereas the more than 201cm tall group only came in third place.
    [...]
    What this could indicate, is that beyond a certain height/weight it might be harder for the cardio-vascular system to keep up with properly supplying the brain, etc. with oxygen, nutrients, etc.
     
    - http://www.unz.com/isteve/the-flynn-effect-for-height/#comment-1855060

    Han Chauvinism/Exceptionalism : What It Means

    The glory of the ancient Chinese empire has long encouraged the Chinese people to see themselves as above all other races. The “civilized/barbarian” distinction (“蛮夷之辩”) of ancient China is a perfect example of this attitude of racial superiority. It was China’s encounter with the Western civilization during the 19th and 20th centuries that forced Chinese people to change such conceptions of themselves. They came to realize their self-pride could not hide the backwardness of Chinese society in the face of the advanced Western technologies.
    [...]
    According to this interpretation, Han is an exceptional ethnical group which cannot find an equal counterpart in this globalized world.
     
    - https://saisobserver.org/2014/04/07/han-chauvinismexceptionalism-what-it-means/

    I think China, the Chinese and the world in general would benefit if the Chinese state were to emphasize its Taoist roots more than its Confucian traditions.

    Taoism differs from Confucianism by not emphasizing rigid rituals and social order.
    - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taoism


    I also wanted to add, that I admire traditional Chinese culture. I have been studying Feng Shui for over 15+ years now.

    What we see today as Sinic/Chinese culture/civilization is really the Chinese Communist Party civilization/culture and not traditional Chinese civilization/culture, in my opinion. However, most Chinese coming over here to the U.S. have the Chinese Communist Party/Social Darwinist/cram school mindset, instead of the Feng Shui mindset.

    Maybe, if Sinic Civilization was more based on Feng Shui principles again, like in Hong Kong and in Taiwan, it would be more compatible and have less of an adversarial relationship with Western Civilization? I think/believe so.
     
    - http://www.unz.com/isteve/reforming-stuyvesant-hs-admissions-should-blacks-whites-team-up-against-asian-grinds/#comment-1810979

    Excellent point that Chinese culture needs a correction towards it’s Taoist side and that right now it’s too heavily tilted towards it’s Confucian and Legalist side. Historically that always happens sooner or later, and we’re going to start seeing that in this century I believe….

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    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Yan Shen
    I find myself in agreement with most of what you've stated in this thread. I think someone like Richard Nisbett would argue that Westerners are far more susceptible to the fundamental attribution error than are East Asians. I think this also explains why white nationalists like Jared Taylor or John Derbyshire are always going on endlessly about blacks, while I've argued the Chinese in Africa today have adopted much more of an attitude of Confucian paternalism.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtsa0MT2H4I

    This is a somewhat famous clip from a documentary that many white nationalist types have excitedly jumped on as an example of a Chinese guy telling blacks that they're basically incapable of anything, which obviously is a highly flawed interpretation if you actually watch the video.

    I could never imagine someone like Derbyshire in a million years having this kind of conversation with any black person. To the contrary, he seems to have decided to devote his life's mission to preaching the most important fact in the world, that on average blacks are less intelligent and more violent compared to members of other ethnic groups. I'm not necessarily disagreeing with this as a matter of fact, but I wonder if a more productive message isn't to teach everyone how to get the most out of their innate capabilities by adopting the right cultural values. (Derbyshire actually gave a talk on just such a topic at Penn Law some number of years back, at the invitation of Amy Wax and the black student's association at the law school as well.)

    Instead, as you correctly point out, these so-called white nationalist writers offer no moral edification or wisdom of any kind, but are nothing more than mere prophets of fatalistic doom and gloom. One of my motivations for writing this article was what I perceived to be the pervasive cultural rot in contemporary American society. Many people have correctly pointed out that America stands at the edge of a precipice as over the coming decades blacks and Hispanics will surely eventually become a combined majority in this country. Now more than ever is when we should be fighting to instill the right ethos among Americans of all stripes.

    Sadly, in today's insane American society, it often seems like the extremist voices are the only ones that end up being heard. When seemingly your only choices are Social Justice Jihadis on the one hand, and right-wing fanatics like Richard Spencer, Jared Taylor, and John Derbyshire on the other, it's not a surprise that some bespectacled Korean guy ends up being by far the most sane person in the building. Or for instance that Chinese guy in the Democratic Republic of Congo...

    Excellent and very true comment altogether, Yan.

    I completely agree with you regarding Confucius paternalism towards blacks. Imagine if Derbyshire said exactly the same thing, that blacks are a problematic and violent community, etc, etc, but added that we should help them to learn better behaviors and develop better values. Imagine the alt-right adopted this attitude, which would even be consistent with calls for segregation and the rest of it.

    Sure, there would be a massive outcry about white paternalism, but it would nevertheless undeniably raise the moral stature of the alt-right despite all the efforts of the MSM, and I bet it would even win over some blacks.

    The sheer hostility of the al-right towards all non-whites and the complete lack of any moral veneer is even incredibly stupid simply as strategy….

    But the alt-right is stupid, and have learned nothing from the successess of Jews.

    Of course, as Daniel Chieh says, whites used to be paternalistic, but the complete loss of cultural self-confidence has perhaps made this attitude impossible for whites – on another thread, I was dumbfounded to see alt-righters bickering with blacks over who is “superior” – so this is what it’s come to for alt-righters! That’s how low their confidence is!

    Related to what has been said so far, it also comes down to the strange “one-dimensional” character of recent white culture – they lack what I can only call the ability for “metacognition” – they see blacks as a problematic community, so they condemn. Simple and linear. They can’t take a step back, look at the larger picture, and see how even as strategy it may make sense to make allies of the black community, as Jews did. Related to what has been said so far, they do not understand the “moral dimension” of conflict or of life.

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    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Tyrion 2
    There's a great many more Eastern people living in each Western* country than there are Western people living in each Eastern country. Nor is this a mere historical artefact as immigration continues to be extremely one-sided.

    Your posts, though I find much to agree with, seem to deny every possible reasonable explanation for this fact.

    I am wondering what is left?

    *Western = native Western European and settled by Western Europeans.

    I don’t disagree. My point is that the barriers aren’t legal. Like many, many things in East Asia, the barriers are typically cultural and informal.

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  • Anon[997] • Disclaimer says:
    @Tyrion 2
    Oh my god. I'm equally stupid. My mistake in my calculations is out as much as yours. Ha.

    Still, the following points stand:

    Furthermore, there is zero reason to suspect that these are selected from the least able of their pool. Such a huge investment in your child’s education is unlikely to be made on entirely barren soil.

    I’d wager that in any society almost all of the top 10% earner’s children score above average on IQ tests.

    Even the English students who go to the US are brighter than average.

    Goodness, I hope you’re not China’s best and brightest. Your reasoning is not great.

    Oh my god. I’m equally stupid. My mistake in my calculations is out as much as yours. Ha.

    Of course i can never be China best, otherwise I won’t be talking to a idiot like you but busy doing my research or administrating the country.

    Indeed you have revealed your pigheaded & snobbish character repeatedly. Why not try reading/accepting others’ comments from beginning humbly, than to stubbornly stick to your flawed argument.

    How can you be equally stupid when all you have ranted are moronic argument & calculation.

    You suggested by your own bragged direct China experience that only top 10% of Chinese can afford $80k pa study expenses. I believe its higher considering highly uneven wealth distribution in urban vs rural, still better than US 1% controlling most wealth.

    Now been pointed out, 10% 1.4B=140M. Even 1% sending under performing kid is 1.4M. Isn’t that big enough to stop your further bragging?

    Yet again you exhibit such obstinate behavior in sticking to your idiotic assertion of “Only Best Chinese can study in US” , with repeated silly argument of China is no better than Botswana or Dominican republic. What a fool you have make yourself here.

    Furthermore, there is zero reason to suspect that these are selected from the least able of their pool. Such a huge investment in your child’s education is unlikely to be made on entirely barren soil.

    I’d wager that in any society almost all of the top 10% earner’s children score above average on IQ tests.

    Even the English students who go to the US are brighter than average.

    Again you make a joke of yourself.

    Can you understand what is Best and above average IQ with your good English?

    You are trying to muddle your argument now to wiggle out in such pathetic way like a typical jews. Sorry, i am never antisemitic, but your behavior call for it.

    In your logic, if above average Chinese is joining the best uni in US & UK, West is doomed. Because then we are talking about best West uni elites are equivalent to the 700M above average Chinese back in China.

    So it comes back to what everyone is telling you from beginning;

    1. Wealthy chinese is plenty in hundreds of millions. That is half of US or twice UK!

    2. Only the 2nd best after unable to enter China good uni, descend to US soil with some rich spoil brats that don’t graduate eventually, like Asia richest man Li KaSeng’s son & Bo Xilai’s son in Harvard.

    3. Post graduate are possibly true elites been sent selectively for specific field study. They will mostly return for a more rewarding career back home.

    Conclusion: US isn’t getting the Best Chinese. otherwise we are already drinking coffee in the moon with combined best talents & unlimited access of technology in US.

    If you are indeed the brightest jews of US/UK, we are doomed & hopeless. Which is why the West is declining into such a cesspool filled with clowns & shameless liars in WH/ UK parliament, ruled by the jews, bleeding trillions & dying for Israel’s Kingdom.

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    • Troll: Tyrion 2, Ju Ahn
    • Replies: @Ju Ahn
    Your point is already debunked as I've pointed out that there are many Chinese students who were Chinese International Mathematical Olympiad (IMO) team members studying or have studied in U.S. universities as undergraduate students.

    These people are truly the best and brightest of the China as they're top 6 people handpicked yearly from their high school population to represent their country in student Olympics of Mathematics.

    In addition, 100 million in China is less than 10% of Chinese population. That point doesn't disprove that majority of Chinese people still aren't rich. No one is arguing Chinese people aren't numerous and there are many intelligent and wealthy people among them just due to their sheer numbers. Chinese commentators often engage in this type of confused or dishonest behavior trying to conflate large numbers with averages.

    Same thing happened many years ago when the PISA score of Shanghai first came out. Chinese commentators tried to use those data to somehow prove Han superiority. However, it is obvious that using data points from the metropolitan area as a representative sample of the entire nation is ridiculous. Few years after, the results from the rest of the China came out, and China did not outperform its East Asian neighbors such as South Korea and Japan much to the dismay of Han chauvinists.
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  • @Wizard of Oz
    The only point at which I paused for disagreement with this excellent article was where it implied approval for the view that giving up volleyball because you were no good at it was a bad idea.

    If it had been gymnastics I could have supported the supposed East Asian view on the ground that a few years of gymnastics could set you up for strength, coordination and physical adaptability for life. If swimming I would have suggested its lifesaving and general fitness value as well as its relation to scuba diving and surfing which one might enjoy one day. But volley ball? No intrinsic value. Only if it meant that one could earn appreciation as a team member could it make sense to make a special effort rather than change sports. And there are other team sports usually available - as well as playing in an orchestra or singing in a choir. But is it really being suggested that East Asians often don't prioritise their activities or ration their efforts? Is there a tendency to expend serious effort and energy on whatever is put on some official agenda so that the fact that the 6th graders play volley ball as the school sport is somehow compelling?
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    • LOL: Wizard of Oz
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  • @Ju Ahn
    You're mistaking correlation with causation or treating it as some other substitute to measure some other quality certain attribute is correlated with (in this case using education to measure IQ).
    However, I already debunked your methodology. For example, wealth and height is also positively correlated with IQ. So, Donald Trump is more intelligent than Albert Einstein (wealth), and Shaquille O'Neal is more intelligent than Stephen Hawking (height). Even comparing population groups Saudi Arabia has higher wealth per capita than China and average Brazilians are taller than Japanese people.

    https://notpoliticallycorrect.me/2017/09/05/worldwide-iq-estimates-based-on-education-data/

    So this source is not only politically incorrect, but also scientifically and factually incorrect. The only reason China scores low is their rural population don't get as many years of schooling as developed western countries. It is laughable how you quote some data cooked up by some WN to further their propaganda.

    Propensity to believe false news or reports like this without questioning is a sign of low IQ and also the reason why we had so much controversy about fake news on facebook during presidential elections.

    What you and the (predominantly Jewish) elite media establishment consider to be chaotic, disruptive “fake news”, most (predominantly white European) Americans define as creative, dynamic “free speech”. They see it as a strength NOT a weakness.

    The utilitarian defense of and justification for free speech is as follows:

    Case 1: The minority view turns out to be true (e.g. Galileo’s statement that the earth revolves around the sun) and the majority view (the earth-centered universe) is false. In this case, it should be obvious that allowing the minority view to be expressed is beneficial to the whole of our society.

    Case 2: The minority view is partially true and partially false. For example, suppose one were to argue that evolution never occurred. Even though this claim defies both a lot of evidence which supports various theories of evolution and it also brings the theory of natural selection under perhaps unjustifiable scrutiny, it nevertheless forces defenders of of various theories of evolution to reexamine both their methods (e.g. carbon dating) and their theoretical commitments (e.g. micro vs. macro evolution). Since the vast majority of social issues, and many accepted scientific theories (e.g. “Big Bang” theory) have at least a ‘touch of gray’, hearing a variety of views forces those who defend them to sharpen and enliven their arguments.

    Case 3: The minority view is false and the received view is true. For example, suppose a scholar were to write a book defending the thesis that slavery never happened in the United States. Why should we even tolerate such an outlandish view?

    1. Even though the scholar’s claims are false, again this forces us to revisit and perhaps rediscover much of the evidence we have documenting the history of slavery. This in turn informs both the way we do history, the way we accept truth claims, and the way we view the present.

    2. The falseness of the scholar’s claims actually strengthens many of our commonly received views about not just the fact of slavery, but it’s legacy also.

    https://theantiochvoice.wordpress.com/2012/06/08/a-utilitarian-defense-of-free-speech-on-college-campuses/

    As John Kerry stated:

    Americans Have The Right To Be Stupid – John Kerry U.S. Secretary of State

    On Einstein, I recommend to check out the following research:

    Albert Einstein, Karl Marx and Sigmund Freud Exposed!

    Source: https://www.unz.com/jthompson/pavlov-nowhere/#comment-1741720

    On height:

    I just wanted to add one little caveat. During a mass Australian IQ test back in 2002, the results actually showed, that the people in the 180cm-200cm height range had the highest average scores, whereas the more than 201cm tall group only came in third place.
    [...]
    What this could indicate, is that beyond a certain height/weight it might be harder for the cardio-vascular system to keep up with properly supplying the brain, etc. with oxygen, nutrients, etc.

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/the-flynn-effect-for-height/#comment-1855060

    Han Chauvinism/Exceptionalism : What It Means

    The glory of the ancient Chinese empire has long encouraged the Chinese people to see themselves as above all other races. The “civilized/barbarian” distinction (“蛮夷之辩”) of ancient China is a perfect example of this attitude of racial superiority. It was China’s encounter with the Western civilization during the 19th and 20th centuries that forced Chinese people to change such conceptions of themselves. They came to realize their self-pride could not hide the backwardness of Chinese society in the face of the advanced Western technologies.
    [...]
    According to this interpretation, Han is an exceptional ethnical group which cannot find an equal counterpart in this globalized world.

    https://saisobserver.org/2014/04/07/han-chauvinismexceptionalism-what-it-means/

    I think China, the Chinese and the world in general would benefit if the Chinese state were to emphasize its Taoist roots more than its Confucian traditions.

    Taoism differs from Confucianism by not emphasizing rigid rituals and social order.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taoism

    I also wanted to add, that I admire traditional Chinese culture. I have been studying Feng Shui for over 15+ years now.

    What we see today as Sinic/Chinese culture/civilization is really the Chinese Communist Party civilization/culture and not traditional Chinese civilization/culture, in my opinion. However, most Chinese coming over here to the U.S. have the Chinese Communist Party/Social Darwinist/cram school mindset, instead of the Feng Shui mindset.

    Maybe, if Sinic Civilization was more based on Feng Shui principles again, like in Hong Kong and in Taiwan, it would be more compatible and have less of an adversarial relationship with Western Civilization? I think/believe so.

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/reforming-stuyvesant-hs-admissions-should-blacks-whites-team-up-against-asian-grinds/#comment-1810979

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    • Replies: @AaronB
    Excellent point that Chinese culture needs a correction towards it's Taoist side and that right now it's too heavily tilted towards it's Confucian and Legalist side. Historically that always happens sooner or later, and we're going to start seeing that in this century I believe....
    , @Ju Ahn
    I'm saying you're adopting fake news because you're disseminating false information of deriving IQ from number of years of education completed which is completely laughable. You're not addressing any of the points I've made to debunk your flawed and disingenuous argument regarding IQ and just diverting the discussion into another matter which most dishonest people do.

    Notice the main point of my argument was regarding racial IQs which you pointed to several ridiculous data to make false points about, not some fake news controversy over facebook or other related matters regarding politics.
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  • TT says:
    @Punju
    "Tibet become part of China by historical reason"

    Tibetan script/writing system is so similar to North Indian languages. Should it not be like some Chinese language? Just trying to understand and not questioning the fact that Tibet is part of China and will stay that way.

    You are right that Tibet benefits economically by staying close to China. But then Others could argue that Taiwan, HongKong should have stayed close to the west for economic reasons but that was considered imperialistic attitude.

    Tibetan script/writing system is so similar to North Indian languages. Should it not be like some Chinese language? Just trying to understand and not questioning the fact that Tibet is part of China and will stay that way.

    From my understanding, ancient Northern part of current India(including Pakistan) is probably the oldest ancient civilization, much older than China, spreading far to further North(Afghanistan, Tibet, Nepal) & East(Bangladesh, China). Even some ancient China scriptures are written in old India “Sanskrit/Pali” writing.

    China inherited much from India civilization. In Hans dynasty India is known as XiYu(West Region) with vast records on astrology, science, spiritual, cultural, etc. Mahayana Buddhism was adopted by the Emperor & wide spread throughout Jp, Korea & SEAsia till present.

    Many traders or missionaries came from north India to China to spread their civilization, some settled down and help translated to Chinese language. These are still in China record.

    Tibet being closer to North India, received its Tibetan Buddhism from India too, albeit the wrong Tantra version instead of original Theravada Buddhism(still prominent in Sri Lanka, Thailand, Myanmar, Laos, Cambodia, some part of Bangladesh). So its not surprise the writing is similar to northern India. Tibetan is a mixture of Tantra Buddhism & Tibet culture.

    Chinese has little influence over Tibet, which is a good sign that keep Tibet culture unchange.

    Even Nepal language is very closed to India, i was surprise my Indian friend was able to understand what Nepalese were talking during our Nepal trip. Sri Lanka Sanskrit & Buddhism is also greatly influence by India, esp during Great Asoka King period.

    Still that doesn’t justify India ambitious expansion policy & endless invasion to all its border countries since independent. Not a single neighbour is spared from India invasion.

    You are right that Tibet benefits economically by staying close to China. But then Others could argue that Taiwan, HongKong should have stayed close to the west for economic reasons but that was considered imperialistic attitude.

    They are absolutely different to be compared in any way.

    What i only wanted to point out is Tibet & Xinjiang aren’t under any kind of China tyranny suppression or massacre that the West out to demonize China. They are actually enjoying so much minority privilege & economy subsidy as autonomous regions. Even Philippine Prez was joking about asking China to incorporate them in as one province.

    Whereas HK was forcefully taken away by invading British under unequal term during opium war. Taiwan is a civil war historical burden. You are confusing yourself too much.

    Btw, it will be foolish to still thinking staying close to declining bankrupt West will lead to better prosperity than the already risen China, the economy body slated to be larger than US & EU combined within few decades.

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  • @Yan Shen
    I wouldn't overstate the extent to which East Asians live in the West. Take for example the Chinese. There are something like 50 million or so overseas Chinese, but the majority of them live in Southeast Asia.

    By my estimate there are probably something like 10-12 million Chinese living in the West as its broadly defined, but out of those 5 million live in one country, the US, and another 3.6 million live in Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and the UK. So the vast majority of Chinese living in the West are concentrated in the Anglosphere.

    But really compared to the mainland population of over 1380 million, all of those numbers are insignificant. I think the other point here is that it's a bit misleading to conflate the West as a whole with the Anglosphere specifically, as increasingly the non-Anglosphere West is becoming more and more marginal over the course of the 21st century...

    There's a reason why VC and tech is essentially a two man battle between Silicon Valley and China!

    Not sure you’ve answered my question…

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  • @Rdm
    Hey I thought Asians are the most patriarchal society according to what Asian women said.

    I don’t know what that has to do with anything I said, so here is a link to an animal-powered dynamo.

    https://patents.google.com/patent/US20050161289

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  • @James Forrestal
    "Well since one of the themes of this article was the hypocrisy of the right-wing white-wing, despite their pretensions to fairness and universality, let me call out this little bit of sanctimony as well."

    They're merely pointing out that the "proposition nation" meme is nonsensical, and that people like you employ it tactically; claiming that it's somehow invalid for those of European descent to claim any organic identity, that we have a moral obligation to "deconstruct Whiteness." Meanwhile, all other forms of racial/ cultural identity are not only valid, but something to be celebrated, of course.

    No one is claiming that your openly-expressed Han racial supremacism is somehow invalid. It's not surprising that someone would support their own people. They're merely pointing out that it's there... and that it's grossly inconsistent with your support for the officially-endorsed canards of the current year: the Blank Slate, the Magic Dirt, and the Proposition Nation.

    The hypocrisy is all on your side.

    Well you obviously haven’t read much of my commentary and have no idea who I am, since as someone who’s been one of the staunchest advocates of HBD and race realism for at least the last 10 years, I’m shocked that you would accuse me of endorsing either the Blank Slate or Magic Dirt. To the contrary, I would argue that white nationalist types are better characterized as being proponents of Magic Dirt theory, since as I pointed out in my article they oftentimes invoke the same memes to explain East Asian academic success that blacks and Hispanics invoke to explain relative white American academic success.

    On the other hand, I can kinda sorta subscribe to the notion of the Proposition Nation. At a minimum, since non-Hispanic whites are only 61-62% of the overall population today, white nationalism narrowly construed really is one of those hopelessly pollyannish notions that has no real validity or chance at ever coming to fruition.

    By the way, it’s also highly flawed to accuse me of Han racial supremacism. In fact my last article here argued for something very different, that based on HBD, I expected Western and Eastern societies to increasingly specialize in different areas.

    http://www.unz.com/article/iq-or-the-mathverbal-split/

    Regardless of whether or not HBD is valid, I do think there’s a lot to be said for adopting the right cultural values and attitudes and basically working to maximize the most of what you’re born with. You really can’t ask for more than for each person to give their absolute best effort.

    This also has the additional plus that just in case the strong hereditarian position isn’t quite as correct as we might assume it to be, you’ve put in the required work as well to get more output than what you might’ve expected under a strong HBD assumption.

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    • Replies: @James Forrestal
    "I’m shocked that you would accuse me of endorsing either the Blank Slate or Magic Dirt"
    "it’s also highly flawed to accuse me of Han racial supremacism"

    I was exaggerating for effect (and using the term "supremacism" ironically, of course). Though the premise of this entire piece is based on promoting Chinese behavior (regardless of the relative contributions of genes and environment to that behavior) as "superior," of course. (By comparing it to African/ Africanized behavioral norms)

    What you actually do is shift between perspectives as they are convenient to your goals. It is rather inconsistent, you must admit, to argue for a significant, even majority genetic component to human behavioral traits (HBD), while supporting The Narrative's "proposition nation" and "diversity" tropes. Diversity + proximity = conflict. If the basis of that "diversity" of identity (and behavior) has a significant genetic basis, then the conflict is clearly irreconcilable.

    "On the other hand, I can kinda sorta subscribe to the notion of the Proposition Nation."

    The term "nation-state" is not redundant. "Nation" is not a synonym for "country" or "state." A nation is not a patch of ground, or lines on a map, or a piece of paper. It's a people, with a common heritage and culture. Sure, it's not geometry; there are no bright lines. There's always a certain amount of mixing/ assimilation. But too much, and you destroy the nation.

    In short, the term "proposition nation" is not merely nonsensical; it's self-contradictory.

    Do you believe that China is a "proposition nation?" Why or why not?

    "Regardless of whether or not HBD is valid, I do think there’s a lot to be said for adopting the right cultural values and attitudes and basically working to maximize the most of what you’re born with. You really can’t ask for more than for each person to give their absolute best effort."

    Well, yeah. Of course.
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  • Some good news from Japan. Nationalism is good. But they should go easy on denying WWII war crimes. Nanking was real.

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  • @Yan Shen
    I find myself in agreement with most of what you've stated in this thread. I think someone like Richard Nisbett would argue that Westerners are far more susceptible to the fundamental attribution error than are East Asians. I think this also explains why white nationalists like Jared Taylor or John Derbyshire are always going on endlessly about blacks, while I've argued the Chinese in Africa today have adopted much more of an attitude of Confucian paternalism.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtsa0MT2H4I

    This is a somewhat famous clip from a documentary that many white nationalist types have excitedly jumped on as an example of a Chinese guy telling blacks that they're basically incapable of anything, which obviously is a highly flawed interpretation if you actually watch the video.

    I could never imagine someone like Derbyshire in a million years having this kind of conversation with any black person. To the contrary, he seems to have decided to devote his life's mission to preaching the most important fact in the world, that on average blacks are less intelligent and more violent compared to members of other ethnic groups. I'm not necessarily disagreeing with this as a matter of fact, but I wonder if a more productive message isn't to teach everyone how to get the most out of their innate capabilities by adopting the right cultural values. (Derbyshire actually gave a talk on just such a topic at Penn Law some number of years back, at the invitation of Amy Wax and the black student's association at the law school as well.)

    Instead, as you correctly point out, these so-called white nationalist writers offer no moral edification or wisdom of any kind, but are nothing more than mere prophets of fatalistic doom and gloom. One of my motivations for writing this article was what I perceived to be the pervasive cultural rot in contemporary American society. Many people have correctly pointed out that America stands at the edge of a precipice as over the coming decades blacks and Hispanics will surely eventually become a combined majority in this country. Now more than ever is when we should be fighting to instill the right ethos among Americans of all stripes.

    Sadly, in today's insane American society, it often seems like the extremist voices are the only ones that end up being heard. When seemingly your only choices are Social Justice Jihadis on the one hand, and right-wing fanatics like Richard Spencer, Jared Taylor, and John Derbyshire on the other, it's not a surprise that some bespectacled Korean guy ends up being by far the most sane person in the building. Or for instance that Chinese guy in the Democratic Republic of Congo...

    Please. Get to meet John Derbyshire and stop thinking of him as a right wing fanatic. He is an amusing individualist’s individualist. Cp. his forcefully expressed sometimes eccentric views to old lefty Christopher Hitchens lining up to cheer the invasion of Iraq.

    Here’s my favourite example of why you should enjoy JD…. On the old Human Biodiversity website site years ago someone posted a snippet from the BBC about humans sharing 70 per cent of their genes with pumpkins. Within 5 minutes of that being posted he came back with a limerick worthy of Robert Conquest, to wit:

    A certain young hillbilly bumpkin
    Was caught having sex with a pumpkin
    When arrested he swore
    What’s all the fuss for
    Where I’m from it’s OK to hump kin.

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  • @Daniel Chieh
    There was plenty of efforts of paternalism among whites. Most Confederate leaders behaved in such a manner, in fact.

    Hey I thought Asians are the most patriarchal society according to what Asian women said.

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    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    I don't know what that has to do with anything I said, so here is a link to an animal-powered dynamo.

    https://patents.google.com/patent/US20050161289
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  • @Ju Ahn
    You're mistaking correlation with causation or treating it as some other substitute to measure some other quality certain attribute is correlated with (in this case using education to measure IQ).
    However, I already debunked your methodology. For example, wealth and height is also positively correlated with IQ. So, Donald Trump is more intelligent than Albert Einstein (wealth), and Shaquille O'Neal is more intelligent than Stephen Hawking (height). Even comparing population groups Saudi Arabia has higher wealth per capita than China and average Brazilians are taller than Japanese people.

    https://notpoliticallycorrect.me/2017/09/05/worldwide-iq-estimates-based-on-education-data/

    So this source is not only politically incorrect, but also scientifically and factually incorrect. The only reason China scores low is their rural population don't get as many years of schooling as developed western countries. It is laughable how you quote some data cooked up by some WN to further their propaganda.

    Propensity to believe false news or reports like this without questioning is a sign of low IQ and also the reason why we had so much controversy about fake news on facebook during presidential elections.

    It is laughable how you quote some data cooked up by some WN to further their propaganda.

    He is a Hatian living in France engaged to a Jewish woman. He is no white nationalist.

    That’s only in your dreams. I’m Haitian-born, I have not grown up to speak creole or practice voodoo, not even a slight West Indian accent or a propensity for superstition. I went several times to Haiti and I didn’t tell myself “Oh, I’m finally finding my people”. They were foreigners (or more accurately: I was a foreigner), as foreign as Russians or Javanese. And there is no need to be adopted to realize this. My fiancée is French of Moroccan Jewish ancestry, Israeli are foreigners to her, even if they’re Moroccan too. Because the way she/we live is French and very little else.

    http://www.unz.com/jthompson/the-worlds-iq-86/#comment-2066137

    White nationalists usually cite and quote Richard Lynn like you do.

    Propensity to believe false news or reports like this without questioning is a sign of low IQ and also the reason why we had so much controversy about fake news on facebook during presidential elections.

    Pure HC propaganda…

    Han Chauvinism/Exceptionalism: The Problem with it

    Western observers often measure China’s racial composition and relations based on a Western scale, looking for an Eastern equivalent to white supremacy. This is easily found in “Han chauvinism” and the overwhelming presence of Han Chinese in all upper echelon positions of power throughout the country.

    Mao’s campaign against “Han chauvinism” was not a material success. Ethnic minority groups seeking independence or cultural autonomy were deemed counter-revolutionary and collectively punished. The superiority of the Han was obscured by class struggle. Bigoted language and straightforward expressions of racial superiority were replaced with condescending views on revolution.

    https://saisobserver.org/2014/04/07/han-chauvinismexceptionalism-the-problem-with-han-chauvinism/

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    • Replies: @FKA Max
    Typo: He is a *Haitian* living in France engaged to a Jewish woman.

    As you noticed it, my interest in the posts about blacks and especially West African blacks is linked to my ethnic background. I’m an Haïtian Black adopted by White Gallo-Roman Catholic parents which in France stands for White Anglo-Saxon Protestant in the USA. It means more than white, it means the native ancestral dominant elite stock, “la crème de la crème” in other words. If you want to make an analogy with the US, I don’t react here as a black person but rather as typical liberal New Englander.
    [...]
    I was born in the worst slum of Port-au-Prince and now I’m just starting a professional career at 23, I’m starting as a lawyer by September. I don’t do it for money but for self-fulfillment, I don’t need to earn money because I’m already wealthy, not by birth but by adoption and it feels totally different as I know how short I fell of living a life of slum dweller. Now I have a master’s degree and I grew up in an environment that engineered me for excellence.
     
    - https://robertlindsay.wordpress.com/2015/08/01/new-author-afrosapiens/

    Why Is Barbados So Civilized?
    [...]
    I think an important distinction has to [b]e made between Catholic/French/Belgian, etc. and Protestant/British/Dutch, etc. colonies here, when it comes to the promotion or prohibition of birth control, etc. and what kind of effect this has had on the difference in observed levels of civility and violence these nations exhibit even today. In my experience, even majority-African populations can be relatively civilized and prosperous if they have the combination and follow the formula of a lower fertility rate and a higher median age population. This demographic combination has a civilizing and pacifying effect on any culture and people, no matter the genetic, racial predisposition towards aggression, impulsivity, etc. due to a higher prevalence of “warrior gene”
    [...]
    Compare Protestant/British Barbados’ fertility rate history (currently it has a fertility rate of ~1.84)
    [...]
    to Catholic/French Haiti’s fertility rate history (currently it has a fertility rate of ~2.8)

     

    - http://www.unz.com/article/thoughts-on-decolonization-as-an-anti-white-discourse/#comment-2076646

    The same applies to China, without the 1 Child policy implemented China would not be at the stage of economic, etc. development it is today:

    The population policy of only 1 child for each couple was proposed for the longterm benefit of China and its people and because of the urgent demand of the 4 modernizations. The indication of the achievement of the 4 modernizations by the end of the 20th century is a per capita income of 1000 United States dollars. To reach the $1000 figure, the per capita income needs to be increased 3-fold. This is a difficult task, and to realize it effort must be placed on both material production and population control.
    – https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12311034
     
    - http://www.unz.com/isteve/those-who-never-noticed-the-past-are-condemned-to-repeat-it/#comment-2207049

    When the president of Beijing University warned about the danger of rapid population growth, he was denounced and relieved of his responsibilities. Overpopulation could only be a problem in evil capitalist societies — never in a socialist paradise. China was already overpopulated in 1949, and it grew with spooky speed. Mao refused to believe the census numbers. In 1958, family planning programs were ended, and not resumed until 1971. Mao died in 1976, and in 1979, the one-child policy was implemented.

    http://www.china-profile.com/data/figures/fig_WPP2010_TotPop_TFR_1.gif

    Source: http://www.unz.com/article/mao-reconsidered/#comment-2045728
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  • @anon
    You clearly have trouble with logic and reasoning, and argue strictly with emotions, like all liberals. Having a discussion with someone like you is a waste of time. Adios.

    I have no problem with logic and reasoning, and if I do, then please point out where. You clearly made the argument that in a legal sense, the displacement of the native americans and the colonization of america was completely justified. Is this or is this not a faithful representation of what you said? Subsequently I pointed out that by following your legalistic logic, the identity of white america will also inevitably transform due to granting millions of non-white people american citizenship. Thus, your own arguments bind you if we apply them consistently. Just as the displacement of the native americans was legally cemented and justified, so can the same be said regarding the “displacement” of white americans via legal non-white mass immigration. Is there any flaw in my argument here? If there is, please feel free to point it out. I am merely utilizing the same logic which you insisted was correct in the first place.

    I suspect that you realize the fatal flaw in your argumentation as well; that is why instead of engaging me and clearly showing where I have trouble with logic and reasoning, you instead try to claim that arguing with someone like me is a “waste of time” and then hightail it out of here. Actions speak louder than words you know, and currently it looks like you lack confidence in your own position, and that is why you are apparently unwilling to defend it.

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  • @Tyrion 2
    There's a great many more Eastern people living in each Western* country than there are Western people living in each Eastern country. Nor is this a mere historical artefact as immigration continues to be extremely one-sided.

    Your posts, though I find much to agree with, seem to deny every possible reasonable explanation for this fact.

    I am wondering what is left?

    *Western = native Western European and settled by Western Europeans.

    I wouldn’t overstate the extent to which East Asians live in the West. Take for example the Chinese. There are something like 50 million or so overseas Chinese, but the majority of them live in Southeast Asia.

    By my estimate there are probably something like 10-12 million Chinese living in the West as its broadly defined, but out of those 5 million live in one country, the US, and another 3.6 million live in Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and the UK. So the vast majority of Chinese living in the West are concentrated in the Anglosphere.

    But really compared to the mainland population of over 1380 million, all of those numbers are insignificant. I think the other point here is that it’s a bit misleading to conflate the West as a whole with the Anglosphere specifically, as increasingly the non-Anglosphere West is becoming more and more marginal over the course of the 21st century…

    There’s a reason why VC and tech is essentially a two man battle between Silicon Valley and China!

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    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
    Not sure you've answered my question...
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  • @James Forrestal
    So your'e arguing that the Turks should give back Constantinople to the Greeks? OK

    Like most alt-righters/white nationalists, you have strong pretensions of intellectualism but then when push comes to shove, you don’t hesitate to display your own intellectual laziness. I clearly stated that I was not making any moral arguments against colonialism itself, but rather I was making these two separate arguments regarding colonialism:

    1.the importance of being internally consistent about your views regarding your own cultural/racial survival and your attitudes towards colonial actions carried out by the group which you identify yourself with.

    The alt-right/white nationalists are entitled to make practical arguments against immigration, but they are not entitled to make moral/ethical arguments against immigration unless they first ditch the whole “we whites were colonists and we did nothing wrong” shtick; it is completely hypocritical and it also sounds completely absurd, hollow and unconvincing to anyone who doesn’t share their views.

    The alt-right/white nationalists have the right to make moral/ethical arguments against mass immigration and multiculturalism only if they first amend their current apologetic stance regarding the western colonization of the world. If they are unable or unwilling to do this, then any arguments they make regarding the morality/ethicalness of mass immigration to the west will not be taken seriously by anybody. Who values the word of a hypocrite? Nobody

    2.Practically speaking (all moral considerations aside), it strongly appears that the west has set itself up for disaster by inadvertently setting the stage for globalization, which in turn allowed mass-immigration to manifest by providing the technological and political framework necessary for it to happen in the first place. Had western colonization never happened then the rest of the world outside of europe would still be stuck in a timeless, relatively technologically unadvanced state. It was the west that brought the rest of the world into the modern age, kicking and screaming. Don’t forget that. And now it is the west that will inadvertently end up paying the price for it. Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind.

    You are free to re-read every word of my previous post. You obviously did not take the time to digest what I was saying, because if you did then it would be clear that your rebuttal is actually misplaced, and furthermore, you are trying to make a rhetorical point in response to an argument which I was never making in the first place. You are trying to claim that I am making the argument that everyone should try to amend for their own colonial misdeeds, when in fact I was never making that argument to begin with. The only arguments I was making was one of being morally consistent, and also that of dealing with unintended consequences. Your one liner drive by comment fails to debunk either of the arguments which I put forth. Nice try? You deserve an F for effort though ;) As I said before, most alt-righters/white nationalists lack the ability (willingness?) to really think about their political platform and ensure that it is based upon a logical and morally consistent foundation. Instead they base their arguments on raw emotions, indignation (and a LARGE dose of vitriolic racism) and then wonder why they are marginalized by the mainstream. LOL, keep cucking yourselves guys

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    • Replies: @James Forrestal
    You may congratulate yourself on your imagined skills at mental telepathy now. Clearly, you are projecting your baseless (yet amusing) "moral" self-righteousness onto your perceived enemies, and the objects of your mindless hatred.

    Clearly, I must spell it out at greater length (yet more simply) for one of your massive cognitive abilities.

    1. Let's start with your faith-based belief (apparently swallowed whole from your teevee, your sociology professor, or both) that White Europeans are the only people ever to migrate, settle, colonize, or conquer. This is touching in its naïveté, but rather strange. Do you somehow imagine that all non-Whites grew up out of the soil, in the countries where they now predominate, and never did any of these things? Even stranger. Educate yourself. When did Greece finally break free from Ottoman imperialism? How many millions of White Europeans were enslaved by the Ottoman Turks? And where did the Turks come from originally, anyway? How did they end up taking over Anatolia? Were they invited?

    2. One can judge this (or not) in moral terms, but it's a fact. Europeans were simply better at this than other peoples were for the last few hundred years.

    3. Replacement level non-White immigration is not an "unintended consequence," of course. it is an intended consequence of specific policies adopted by an alien, hostile elite. What, you think all of these people just fell from the sky one day? Teleported themselves from the Third World to White countries? Please.

    Now of course, you're going to start whining again "B-b-but that's different! I'm not making the usual anti-White argument!" Not quite, but the embedded assumption of your "argument" is still that it is somehow morally illegitimate for Whites to oppose their "inevitable" displacement. Whether you regard European colonialism, or Ottoman colonialism, or expansion by any other group as good, bad, or neutral is beside the point. You're still making a moral argument, and one that is based on the same assumptions, just with some additional irrelevant pilpul added.

    "You are trying to claim that I am making the argument that everyone should try to amend for their own colonial misdeeds, when in fact I was never making that argument to begin with. The only arguments I was making was one of being morally consistent, and also that of dealing with unintended consequences."

    Nope. There is no significant difference between "everyone should try to amend for their own colonial misdeeds" and "It's morally illegitimate for Whites (and White only) to oppose their own displacement because 'moral consistency' and bla bla bla."

    One more time -- I'm pointing out that your pretended "moral consistency" is merely a threadbare conceit laid over the top of the typical "Whitey is uniquely evil, and dem poor innocent POCs dindu nuffin" blabber. Pathetic. Keep trying, though. It's kinda comical, actually.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Yan Shen
    http://www.8asians.com/2013/04/30/the-abc-and-fob-divide/

    I think you vastly overstate the case for worldwide ethnic Chinese solidarity. Even in the US, there's oftentimes a clear social divide between ABCs and FOBs.

    I know enough Overseas Chinese to see those from SE Asia as likely to be the staunchest supporters of Australia’s better values including freedoms and that doesn’t apply to great China chauvinists from China – though that wouldn’t be a description of those who e.g. stayed after the Tianmen Square repression.

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  • @James Forrestal
    My point, of course, is that Disraeli wanted to have it both ways. He wanted to be seen as "truly English," while identifying with a different group, whose interests often differed from those of the English. To use his own terms, the "Anglo-Saxon race" and the "Jewish race."

    Of course, this is still a very relevant concept today -- see AIPAC, etc.

    Disraeli's use of the term "Hebrew Arabs" in some of his work ("Coningsby" for example) is another interesting indication of how he viewed his identity.

    There are certainly some interesting interactions between the two groups, as your use of the term "British imperialism" alludes to. The opium wars served to protect the Sassoon-controlled opium trade. And who were Rhode's financial backers?

    Interesting to extend your thought experiment of Disraeli as a kind of one man AIPAC (with some Jewish network substituted for Israel). But I don’t think it is easy to make it work. He was a highly imaginative novelist, something too of a charmer and fantasist. Think of the way Lloyd George was an outsider able to fascinate people.

    Remembering that he was an Anglican who had achieved success in life as a conventional upper middle class Englishman whose base for glory was the greatness of Britain not the network of Jewry I would guess that Jewishness was part of his fantasy life and inspiration as a storyteller rather than an AIPAC type divided loyalty.

    As to the Opium Wars I always thought the Scottish Jardine Mathieson were more significant than the Sassoons. As to the Sassoons it may be important to remember that they were Sephardi (anyway not Ashkenazi, and very exotic before they became English gentlemen) and – I am just skipping through memories – English enough to produce Siegfried Sassoon the WW1 officer and poet.

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    • Replies: @James Forrestal
    "Interesting to extend your thought experiment of Disraeli as a kind of one man AIPAC (with some Jewish network substituted for Israel)"

    You're being excessively literally-minded here. I'm making a point with respect to identity. If you read Disraeli's own works, it's clear where his primary identity (and loyalty) lies. Yet he wanted to be accepted as "truly English" despite this, by intermittently adopting a transparently dishonest veneer of English identity. Our modern-day Zionist dual citizens do the same.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Ju Ahn
    Yes, these white people who complain about East Asian nations and people's racist tendencies likely has never set foot in East Asia or just have been there for few days as tourists.

    If anything white people are generally greeted with tremendous welcome throughout East Asia, and some Chinese company even hired professional white man to represent them so that their business appear more competitive. Some white people complain that they have problem being actually accepted as one of the "Asians" in countries such as Korea, but I suspect a lot of this also has to do with language and cultural barriers. Unlike East Asians in European nations, white people in East Asia tend to be generally pretty bad at East Asian languages and even good speakers among them tend to generally exhibit the same level of language proficiency average ESL students exhibit here. Compare this to many East Asians in the US who outscore even educated American people in SAT-V or Writing, or GRE Verbal/Writing portion.

    Futhermore, you never hear about any white people brutally murdered or beaten up in racially motivated crimes in East Asia, while the lynching of Asian people by Russian skinheads or overly protective homeowners in the US is heard from time to time. Actually, the opposite is heard much more commonly, unruly US military personnel committing crimes in Japan or Korea.

    There’s a great many more Eastern people living in each Western* country than there are Western people living in each Eastern country. Nor is this a mere historical artefact as immigration continues to be extremely one-sided.

    Your posts, though I find much to agree with, seem to deny every possible reasonable explanation for this fact.

    I am wondering what is left?

    *Western = native Western European and settled by Western Europeans.

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    • Replies: @Yan Shen
    I wouldn't overstate the extent to which East Asians live in the West. Take for example the Chinese. There are something like 50 million or so overseas Chinese, but the majority of them live in Southeast Asia.

    By my estimate there are probably something like 10-12 million Chinese living in the West as its broadly defined, but out of those 5 million live in one country, the US, and another 3.6 million live in Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and the UK. So the vast majority of Chinese living in the West are concentrated in the Anglosphere.

    But really compared to the mainland population of over 1380 million, all of those numbers are insignificant. I think the other point here is that it's a bit misleading to conflate the West as a whole with the Anglosphere specifically, as increasingly the non-Anglosphere West is becoming more and more marginal over the course of the 21st century...

    There's a reason why VC and tech is essentially a two man battle between Silicon Valley and China!

    , @Daniel Chieh
    I don't disagree. My point is that the barriers aren't legal. Like many, many things in East Asia, the barriers are typically cultural and informal.
    , @Ju Ahn
    The points is that many WNs or some other conservative white people are making false arguments about unfair treatments they would face in East Asia if they were to migrate there. However, much of the observed discrepancies arise from white people's unwillingness to move to East Asia as opposed to the mythical racist policies adopted in East Asian nations. This in conjunction with white people's unwillingness to adopt Asian language and culture are larger reason that white people do not assimilate as well in East Asian countries rather than any flagrant racism exhibited by native East Asian populations.

    So, WNs are really using white people's unwillingness to move to East Asia as defense to justify some of the discriminatory policies that exist or might exist in the west. However, most East Asian people are here (in the West) legally as white people in the East do. And East Asian people often adopt European languages (English), culture, and religion (many are even Christians). WNs also sometimes give objection to East Asian people speaking our own language and cooking our own food at home. But I observe plenty of French or Quebec Canadian people speaking French in public, or Eastern Europeans speaking Russian or other languages. As for our foods, Europeans raided SE Asia centuries ago for their spices and adopted elements of Eastern cuisine quite willingly and through many troubles undertaken voluntarily. They also threatened East Asian ports with their modern weapons to force trades and adopted Chinese tea and other culinary practices. British people also willingly opened Indian restaurants in their own country.

    I agree with you that that are more Asian people in the west than Europeans on the west. However, I'm going to tell you that Europeans meddle on the affairs of East Asian countries much more despite their lower numbers. All the time Europeans human and animal rights organizations try to influence East Asian policies despite not being there. Amnesty tells East Asian countries to abolish death penalties, and animal rights groups tell us to not eat dogs or cats. Some Europeans also complain about large influx of Muslims and how they influence policies. However, Europeans affect middle eastern politics much more through involvement in Israel and War in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Syria yet again. In addition, European nations threaten countries like North Korea and Iran about nuclear disarmament. I'm not saying I disagree with these policies, but Europeans are impacting Asian nations much more than they claim to be doing.

    In summary, I find that such arguments put forth by WNs to be very duplicitous and lacking in depth. They just compare the number of population in each side and hastily draw conclusion that Asian are trying to change their ways of life; However, Europeans have already wreaked havoc in other cultures in the past and is continuing to do so today.

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @FKA Max
    This data is not a joke. It just doesn't conform to your worldview.

    How much does education improve intelligence? A meta-analysis. EDUCATION AND INTELLIGENCE METAANALYSIS. 2017
    Stuart J. Ritchie & Elliot M. Tucker-Drob.

    https://lookaside.fbsbx.com/file/Education-Intelligence%20Meta-Analysis%2007Nov1

    Intelligence test scores and educational duration are positively correlated. This correlation can be interpreted in two ways: students with greater propensity for intelligence go on to complete more education, or a longer education increases intelligence. We meta-analysed three categories of quasi-experimental studies of educational effects on intelligence: those estimating education-intelligence associations after controlling for earlier intelligence, those using compulsory schooling policy changes as instrumental variables, and those using regression-discontinuity designs on school-entry age cut offs. Across 142 effect sizes from 42 data sets involving over 600,000 participants, we found consistent evidence for beneficial effects of education on cognitive abilities, of approximately 1 to 5 IQ points for an additional year of education. Moderator analyses indicated that the effects persisted across the lifespan, and were present on all broad categories of cognitive ability studied. Education appears to be the most consistent, robust, and durable method yet to be identified for raising intelligence.
     

    - https://www.unz.com/jthompson/boost-your-iq/#p_1_24

    More here: https://www.unz.com/jthompson/the-worlds-iq-86/#comment-2070567

    https://twitter.com/StuartJRitchie/status/928182998373208064

    You’re mistaking correlation with causation or treating it as some other substitute to measure some other quality certain attribute is correlated with (in this case using education to measure IQ).
    However, I already debunked your methodology. For example, wealth and height is also positively correlated with IQ. So, Donald Trump is more intelligent than Albert Einstein (wealth), and Shaquille O’Neal is more intelligent than Stephen Hawking (height). Even comparing population groups Saudi Arabia has higher wealth per capita than China and average Brazilians are taller than Japanese people.

    https://notpoliticallycorrect.me/2017/09/05/worldwide-iq-estimates-based-on-education-data/

    So this source is not only politically incorrect, but also scientifically and factually incorrect. The only reason China scores low is their rural population don’t get as many years of schooling as developed western countries. It is laughable how you quote some data cooked up by some WN to further their propaganda.

    Propensity to believe false news or reports like this without questioning is a sign of low IQ and also the reason why we had so much controversy about fake news on facebook during presidential elections.

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    • Replies: @FKA Max

    It is laughable how you quote some data cooked up by some WN to further their propaganda.
     
    He is a Hatian living in France engaged to a Jewish woman. He is no white nationalist.

    That’s only in your dreams. I’m Haitian-born, I have not grown up to speak creole or practice voodoo, not even a slight West Indian accent or a propensity for superstition. I went several times to Haiti and I didn’t tell myself “Oh, I’m finally finding my people”. They were foreigners (or more accurately: I was a foreigner), as foreign as Russians or Javanese. And there is no need to be adopted to realize this. My fiancée is French of Moroccan Jewish ancestry, Israeli are foreigners to her, even if they’re Moroccan too. Because the way she/we live is French and very little else.
     
    - http://www.unz.com/jthompson/the-worlds-iq-86/#comment-2066137

    White nationalists usually cite and quote Richard Lynn like you do.

    Propensity to believe false news or reports like this without questioning is a sign of low IQ and also the reason why we had so much controversy about fake news on facebook during presidential elections.
     
    Pure HC propaganda...

    Han Chauvinism/Exceptionalism: The Problem with it

    Western observers often measure China’s racial composition and relations based on a Western scale, looking for an Eastern equivalent to white supremacy. This is easily found in “Han chauvinism” and the overwhelming presence of Han Chinese in all upper echelon positions of power throughout the country.

    Mao’s campaign against “Han chauvinism” was not a material success. Ethnic minority groups seeking independence or cultural autonomy were deemed counter-revolutionary and collectively punished. The superiority of the Han was obscured by class struggle. Bigoted language and straightforward expressions of racial superiority were replaced with condescending views on revolution.
     
    - https://saisobserver.org/2014/04/07/han-chauvinismexceptionalism-the-problem-with-han-chauvinism/
    , @FKA Max
    What you and the (predominantly Jewish) elite media establishment consider to be chaotic, disruptive "fake news", most (predominantly white European) Americans define as creative, dynamic "free speech". They see it as a strength NOT a weakness.

    The utilitarian defense of and justification for free speech is as follows:

    Case 1: The minority view turns out to be true (e.g. Galileo’s statement that the earth revolves around the sun) and the majority view (the earth-centered universe) is false. In this case, it should be obvious that allowing the minority view to be expressed is beneficial to the whole of our society.

    Case 2: The minority view is partially true and partially false. For example, suppose one were to argue that evolution never occurred. Even though this claim defies both a lot of evidence which supports various theories of evolution and it also brings the theory of natural selection under perhaps unjustifiable scrutiny, it nevertheless forces defenders of of various theories of evolution to reexamine both their methods (e.g. carbon dating) and their theoretical commitments (e.g. micro vs. macro evolution). Since the vast majority of social issues, and many accepted scientific theories (e.g. “Big Bang” theory) have at least a ‘touch of gray’, hearing a variety of views forces those who defend them to sharpen and enliven their arguments.

    Case 3: The minority view is false and the received view is true. For example, suppose a scholar were to write a book defending the thesis that slavery never happened in the United States. Why should we even tolerate such an outlandish view?

    1. Even though the scholar’s claims are false, again this forces us to revisit and perhaps rediscover much of the evidence we have documenting the history of slavery. This in turn informs both the way we do history, the way we accept truth claims, and the way we view the present.

    2. The falseness of the scholar’s claims actually strengthens many of our commonly received views about not just the fact of slavery, but it’s legacy also.
     
    - https://theantiochvoice.wordpress.com/2012/06/08/a-utilitarian-defense-of-free-speech-on-college-campuses/

    As John Kerry stated:

    Americans Have The Right To Be Stupid - John Kerry U.S. Secretary of State

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5twSqDZRdiA

    On Einstein, I recommend to check out the following research:

    Albert Einstein, Karl Marx and Sigmund Freud Exposed!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4v-OuwdW6U

    Source: https://www.unz.com/jthompson/pavlov-nowhere/#comment-1741720

    On height:

    I just wanted to add one little caveat. During a mass Australian IQ test back in 2002, the results actually showed, that the people in the 180cm-200cm height range had the highest average scores, whereas the more than 201cm tall group only came in third place.
    [...]
    What this could indicate, is that beyond a certain height/weight it might be harder for the cardio-vascular system to keep up with properly supplying the brain, etc. with oxygen, nutrients, etc.
     
    - http://www.unz.com/isteve/the-flynn-effect-for-height/#comment-1855060

    Han Chauvinism/Exceptionalism : What It Means

    The glory of the ancient Chinese empire has long encouraged the Chinese people to see themselves as above all other races. The “civilized/barbarian” distinction (“蛮夷之辩”) of ancient China is a perfect example of this attitude of racial superiority. It was China’s encounter with the Western civilization during the 19th and 20th centuries that forced Chinese people to change such conceptions of themselves. They came to realize their self-pride could not hide the backwardness of Chinese society in the face of the advanced Western technologies.
    [...]
    According to this interpretation, Han is an exceptional ethnical group which cannot find an equal counterpart in this globalized world.
     
    - https://saisobserver.org/2014/04/07/han-chauvinismexceptionalism-what-it-means/

    I think China, the Chinese and the world in general would benefit if the Chinese state were to emphasize its Taoist roots more than its Confucian traditions.

    Taoism differs from Confucianism by not emphasizing rigid rituals and social order.
    - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taoism


    I also wanted to add, that I admire traditional Chinese culture. I have been studying Feng Shui for over 15+ years now.

    What we see today as Sinic/Chinese culture/civilization is really the Chinese Communist Party civilization/culture and not traditional Chinese civilization/culture, in my opinion. However, most Chinese coming over here to the U.S. have the Chinese Communist Party/Social Darwinist/cram school mindset, instead of the Feng Shui mindset.

    Maybe, if Sinic Civilization was more based on Feng Shui principles again, like in Hong Kong and in Taiwan, it would be more compatible and have less of an adversarial relationship with Western Civilization? I think/believe so.
     
    - http://www.unz.com/isteve/reforming-stuyvesant-hs-admissions-should-blacks-whites-team-up-against-asian-grinds/#comment-1810979
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  • @FKA Max
    This data is not a joke. It just doesn't conform to your worldview.

    How much does education improve intelligence? A meta-analysis. EDUCATION AND INTELLIGENCE METAANALYSIS. 2017
    Stuart J. Ritchie & Elliot M. Tucker-Drob.

    https://lookaside.fbsbx.com/file/Education-Intelligence%20Meta-Analysis%2007Nov1

    Intelligence test scores and educational duration are positively correlated. This correlation can be interpreted in two ways: students with greater propensity for intelligence go on to complete more education, or a longer education increases intelligence. We meta-analysed three categories of quasi-experimental studies of educational effects on intelligence: those estimating education-intelligence associations after controlling for earlier intelligence, those using compulsory schooling policy changes as instrumental variables, and those using regression-discontinuity designs on school-entry age cut offs. Across 142 effect sizes from 42 data sets involving over 600,000 participants, we found consistent evidence for beneficial effects of education on cognitive abilities, of approximately 1 to 5 IQ points for an additional year of education. Moderator analyses indicated that the effects persisted across the lifespan, and were present on all broad categories of cognitive ability studied. Education appears to be the most consistent, robust, and durable method yet to be identified for raising intelligence.
     

    - https://www.unz.com/jthompson/boost-your-iq/#p_1_24

    More here: https://www.unz.com/jthompson/the-worlds-iq-86/#comment-2070567

    https://twitter.com/StuartJRitchie/status/928182998373208064

    I never disagreed with statements like intelligence is innate qualities that cannot be improved with education or training. I’m simply stating whether by birth or innate nature or culture for valuing intelligence and studying, East Asians tend to exhibit higher IQ today. But trying to figure someone’s intelligence by number of years of education completed is utter joke. The source you quoted is a joke.

    In addition, is it just a coincidence that many East Asians dominate intelligence competitions such as IMO, IPhO, Putnam, and others? As well as getting higher scores on PISA and TIMMS. Notice I’m quoting at least proper aptitude test scores. Whereas your claim is based on some guesswork such as number of schools individuals have completed, chess playing abilities, and some other questionable roundabouts ways in which white people can claim superiority.

    I also don’t say stuff like East Asian people are superior in intelligence because top 500 Go players in the world happen to be East Asians which is the same reasoning your chess grandmaster example is making.

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  • @Daniel Chieh
    Even Japan, which is easily the most clearly ethnocentric of East Asian nations(short of Great! Juche! Purity! Cleanliness!) has a fairly lax immigration policy for the qualified(as in holding a doctorate or otherwise considered skilled workers, but especially engineers and doctors). The idea that East Asian countries has some sort of super exclusionary racial policy has always been based out of hilarious ignorance.

    China, for its part, specifically has just opened an immigration initiative to draw in non-Chinese co-ethnics into China.

    Yes, these white people who complain about East Asian nations and people’s racist tendencies likely has never set foot in East Asia or just have been there for few days as tourists.

    If anything white people are generally greeted with tremendous welcome throughout East Asia, and some Chinese company even hired professional white man to represent them so that their business appear more competitive. Some white people complain that they have problem being actually accepted as one of the “Asians” in countries such as Korea, but I suspect a lot of this also has to do with language and cultural barriers. Unlike East Asians in European nations, white people in East Asia tend to be generally pretty bad at East Asian languages and even good speakers among them tend to generally exhibit the same level of language proficiency average ESL students exhibit here. Compare this to many East Asians in the US who outscore even educated American people in SAT-V or Writing, or GRE Verbal/Writing portion.

    Futhermore, you never hear about any white people brutally murdered or beaten up in racially motivated crimes in East Asia, while the lynching of Asian people by Russian skinheads or overly protective homeowners in the US is heard from time to time. Actually, the opposite is heard much more commonly, unruly US military personnel committing crimes in Japan or Korea.

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    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
    There's a great many more Eastern people living in each Western* country than there are Western people living in each Eastern country. Nor is this a mere historical artefact as immigration continues to be extremely one-sided.

    Your posts, though I find much to agree with, seem to deny every possible reasonable explanation for this fact.

    I am wondering what is left?

    *Western = native Western European and settled by Western Europeans.

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Ju Ahn
    Your data is a joke. Let me first get a quote from the first source you provided that has very inaccurate IQ table.

    "I used data from the United Nation’s Development Program to estimate the average IQ of each country’s adult and school-age population. Adult IQs were estimated from mean years of schooling completed by adults aged 25 and older whereas School-population IQs were estimated based on the expected years of schooling that a student is supposed to complete if the enrollment ratios from primary through tertiary education remain constant. All variables were reported in year 2015."

    "Estimating IQs from the current school enrollment rates and the mean educational attainment of adults provide insights regarding intergenerational differences in cognitive performance. "

    I mean like seriously!? You estimate national IQ by number of years complete in schooling? Sounds like pretty questionable methodology. So someone who gets Ph.D. in African American studies or the likes have higher IQ than someone who receives masters degree in STEM field such as Master of Financial Engineering (MFE ) degree.

    Other sources you quoted go into something like the # of chess grandmasters by country. East Asians don't play much chess. They play Go. Plus, the correlation between chess ability and IQ or other aptitude is pretty weak. It's better to estimate IQ by actual IQ tests or other aptitude tests than something arbitrary like chess playing abilities.

    You claim Lynn inflated Asian IQ so as not to seem white supremacist but quote questionable source that uses number of education completed to estimate IQ to back up your claim. I don't think anyone will take such sources seriously since the writer doesn't even know about IQ and psychometrics.

    "The manipulation is quite apparent, Lynn largely over-estimated China (+22), Japan (+7) to make East-Asians cluster on top, thus protecting himself from accusations of nordicism and giving support to the inter-cultural validity of the IQs that he cherry-picked."

    All quoted statements in this replay comes from https://notpoliticallycorrect.me/2017/09/05/worldwide-iq-estimates-based-on-education-data/
    which is the source you mentioned.

    This data is not a joke. It just doesn’t conform to your worldview.

    How much does education improve intelligence? A meta-analysis. EDUCATION AND INTELLIGENCE METAANALYSIS. 2017
    Stuart J. Ritchie & Elliot M. Tucker-Drob.

    https://lookaside.fbsbx.com/file/Education-Intelligence%20Meta-Analysis%2007Nov1

    Intelligence test scores and educational duration are positively correlated. This correlation can be interpreted in two ways: students with greater propensity for intelligence go on to complete more education, or a longer education increases intelligence. We meta-analysed three categories of quasi-experimental studies of educational effects on intelligence: those estimating education-intelligence associations after controlling for earlier intelligence, those using compulsory schooling policy changes as instrumental variables, and those using regression-discontinuity designs on school-entry age cut offs. Across 142 effect sizes from 42 data sets involving over 600,000 participants, we found consistent evidence for beneficial effects of education on cognitive abilities, of approximately 1 to 5 IQ points for an additional year of education. Moderator analyses indicated that the effects persisted across the lifespan, and were present on all broad categories of cognitive ability studied. Education appears to be the most consistent, robust, and durable method yet to be identified for raising intelligence.

    https://www.unz.com/jthompson/boost-your-iq/#p_1_24

    More here: https://www.unz.com/jthompson/the-worlds-iq-86/#comment-2070567

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    • Replies: @Ju Ahn
    I never disagreed with statements like intelligence is innate qualities that cannot be improved with education or training. I'm simply stating whether by birth or innate nature or culture for valuing intelligence and studying, East Asians tend to exhibit higher IQ today. But trying to figure someone's intelligence by number of years of education completed is utter joke. The source you quoted is a joke.

    In addition, is it just a coincidence that many East Asians dominate intelligence competitions such as IMO, IPhO, Putnam, and others? As well as getting higher scores on PISA and TIMMS. Notice I'm quoting at least proper aptitude test scores. Whereas your claim is based on some guesswork such as number of schools individuals have completed, chess playing abilities, and some other questionable roundabouts ways in which white people can claim superiority.

    I also don't say stuff like East Asian people are superior in intelligence because top 500 Go players in the world happen to be East Asians which is the same reasoning your chess grandmaster example is making.
    , @Ju Ahn
    You're mistaking correlation with causation or treating it as some other substitute to measure some other quality certain attribute is correlated with (in this case using education to measure IQ).
    However, I already debunked your methodology. For example, wealth and height is also positively correlated with IQ. So, Donald Trump is more intelligent than Albert Einstein (wealth), and Shaquille O'Neal is more intelligent than Stephen Hawking (height). Even comparing population groups Saudi Arabia has higher wealth per capita than China and average Brazilians are taller than Japanese people.

    https://notpoliticallycorrect.me/2017/09/05/worldwide-iq-estimates-based-on-education-data/

    So this source is not only politically incorrect, but also scientifically and factually incorrect. The only reason China scores low is their rural population don't get as many years of schooling as developed western countries. It is laughable how you quote some data cooked up by some WN to further their propaganda.

    Propensity to believe false news or reports like this without questioning is a sign of low IQ and also the reason why we had so much controversy about fake news on facebook during presidential elections.

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  • @Ju Ahn
    Yes, Wikipedia is always right. I suggest you review the source quoted by wikipedia whenever something questionable appears there.

    Similar policy exists for the US,
    I suggest you review our national immigration policy before criticizing other countries.

    "Green Card for Immigrant Investors
    U.S. immigration law allows certain foreign nationals who are employment-based immigrants to become lawful permanent residents (get a Green Card). One employment-based (EB) “preference immigrant” category includes foreign nationals who have invested or are actively in the process of investing $1 million (or $500,000 in targeted employment areas) in a new commercial enterprise that will benefit the U.S. economy and create at least 10 full-time positions for qualifying employees. These foreign nationals are also called “EB-5 immigrant investors” because they are in the employment-based fifth preference visa category. See the EB-5 Immigrant Investor Program for more information about this visa category."
     
    https://www.uscis.gov/greencard/investors

    "The following persons are eligible to apply for permanent residency

    - Those who are adults by Korea's civil law and have stayed in Korea with F-2 Status for more than five years ,and ① have financial capacity to support themselves and their family ② have attainments such as being well-behaved and understanding Korean traditions enough to stay permanently in Korea, or
    - Those who have invested more than 500,000 USD in Korea and have stayed in Korea with D-8 Status for more than three years, while contributing to creating employment opportunities for Korean nationals (more than 5 Koreans), or
    - Those who have invested more than 5,000,000 USD in Korea and whose acquisition of Permanent Residency is deemed proper by the Justice Minister, or
    - Those who have special contributions to Korea and whose special contributions are recognized by the Justice Minister"
     
    https://web.archive.org/web/20071212091356/http://www.dh.go.kr/open_content/english/goverment/09_04_08.htm

    Pretty sure policies for both nations are similar. Apart from the fact that US liberals also want to grant citizenship to illegals through DACA and other pathways to citizenship programs. Other exceptions include refugee programs and such.

    Even Japan, which is easily the most clearly ethnocentric of East Asian nations(short of Great! Juche! Purity! Cleanliness!) has a fairly lax immigration policy for the qualified(as in holding a doctorate or otherwise considered skilled workers, but especially engineers and doctors). The idea that East Asian countries has some sort of super exclusionary racial policy has always been based out of hilarious ignorance.

    China, for its part, specifically has just opened an immigration initiative to draw in non-Chinese co-ethnics into China.

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    • Replies: @Ju Ahn
    Yes, these white people who complain about East Asian nations and people's racist tendencies likely has never set foot in East Asia or just have been there for few days as tourists.

    If anything white people are generally greeted with tremendous welcome throughout East Asia, and some Chinese company even hired professional white man to represent them so that their business appear more competitive. Some white people complain that they have problem being actually accepted as one of the "Asians" in countries such as Korea, but I suspect a lot of this also has to do with language and cultural barriers. Unlike East Asians in European nations, white people in East Asia tend to be generally pretty bad at East Asian languages and even good speakers among them tend to generally exhibit the same level of language proficiency average ESL students exhibit here. Compare this to many East Asians in the US who outscore even educated American people in SAT-V or Writing, or GRE Verbal/Writing portion.

    Futhermore, you never hear about any white people brutally murdered or beaten up in racially motivated crimes in East Asia, while the lynching of Asian people by Russian skinheads or overly protective homeowners in the US is heard from time to time. Actually, the opposite is heard much more commonly, unruly US military personnel committing crimes in Japan or Korea.

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  • @James Forrestal
    "...immigration to South Korea is low due to strict immigration policies"
    "Most immigrants are not eligible for citizenship or even permanent residency, unless they are married to a South Korean citizen or have invested more than $5 million USD in the local economy"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_South_Korea

    And of course, North Korea = juche. No racial element to that at all, hmm?

    Open borders for thee, but not for me...

    Yes, Wikipedia is always right. I suggest you review the source quoted by wikipedia whenever something questionable appears there.

    Similar policy exists for the US,
    I suggest you review our national immigration policy before criticizing other countries.

    “Green Card for Immigrant Investors
    U.S. immigration law allows certain foreign nationals who are employment-based immigrants to become lawful permanent residents (get a Green Card). One employment-based (EB) “preference immigrant” category includes foreign nationals who have invested or are actively in the process of investing $1 million (or $500,000 in targeted employment areas) in a new commercial enterprise that will benefit the U.S. economy and create at least 10 full-time positions for qualifying employees. These foreign nationals are also called “EB-5 immigrant investors” because they are in the employment-based fifth preference visa category. See the EB-5 Immigrant Investor Program for more information about this visa category.”

    https://www.uscis.gov/greencard/investors

    “The following persons are eligible to apply for permanent residency

    - Those who are adults by Korea’s civil law and have stayed in Korea with F-2 Status for more than five years ,and ① have financial capacity to support themselves and their family ② have attainments such as being well-behaved and understanding Korean traditions enough to stay permanently in Korea, or
    - Those who have invested more than 500,000 USD in Korea and have stayed in Korea with D-8 Status for more than three years, while contributing to creating employment opportunities for Korean nationals (more than 5 Koreans), or
    - Those who have invested more than 5,000,000 USD in Korea and whose acquisition of Permanent Residency is deemed proper by the Justice Minister, or
    - Those who have special contributions to Korea and whose special contributions are recognized by the Justice Minister”

    https://web.archive.org/web/20071212091356/http://www.dh.go.kr/open_content/english/goverment/09_04_08.htm

    Pretty sure policies for both nations are similar. Apart from the fact that US liberals also want to grant citizenship to illegals through DACA and other pathways to citizenship programs. Other exceptions include refugee programs and such.

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    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Even Japan, which is easily the most clearly ethnocentric of East Asian nations(short of Great! Juche! Purity! Cleanliness!) has a fairly lax immigration policy for the qualified(as in holding a doctorate or otherwise considered skilled workers, but especially engineers and doctors). The idea that East Asian countries has some sort of super exclusionary racial policy has always been based out of hilarious ignorance.

    China, for its part, specifically has just opened an immigration initiative to draw in non-Chinese co-ethnics into China.
    , @James Forrestal
    And perhaps we could find some sort of... empirical, real world method of comparing the immigration policy of your country with that of mine, hmm? When it comes down to it, that's what matters, not words. What percentage of Korean citizens are naturalized? Naturalized, and of non-Korean (let alone non-Asian) descent? You're flailing here.
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  • @AaronB

    as a Jew I can only respect the Chinese people’s complete lack of anti-Semitism.
     
    Because of a lack of exposure to Jews, but this is changing fast, especially in America. I do a lot of business with recent Chinese arrivals in America, and I have observed on another thread that there is growing trend of anti-Semitism among Chinese.

    Um, I guess there's always the hope of space exploration revealing an alien species that will have "a complete absence of anti-Semitism"? For a while, at least... :)


    intellectual Sinophile
     
    Sure, Tyrion, sure :)

    There’s no history of serious British anti-Semitism stretching all the way back to Cromwell.

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  • @Tyrion 2

    And Tyrion, it’s pretty obvious that as a Jewish nationalist you’re just threatened by Asians….
     
    I'm a British nationalist and an intellectual Sinophile. Furthermore, as a Jew I can only respect the Chinese people's complete lack of anti-Semitism.

    I will tell you this…the ONLY way to successfully lose weight is, for instance, to have skinny friends or live in a thin country….
     
    Obviously not true even if it certainly helps. You're engaging in your customary splitting again.

    Perhaps if you had a greater sense of your inherent dignity you'd be a bit less BPD.

    Furthermore, as a Jew I can only respect the Chinese people’s complete lack of anti-Semitism.

    Interesting.

    https://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2014/05/14/is-china-anti-semitic-one-jews-reflections/

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  • @Yan Shen
    I find myself in agreement with most of what you've stated in this thread. I think someone like Richard Nisbett would argue that Westerners are far more susceptible to the fundamental attribution error than are East Asians. I think this also explains why white nationalists like Jared Taylor or John Derbyshire are always going on endlessly about blacks, while I've argued the Chinese in Africa today have adopted much more of an attitude of Confucian paternalism.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtsa0MT2H4I

    This is a somewhat famous clip from a documentary that many white nationalist types have excitedly jumped on as an example of a Chinese guy telling blacks that they're basically incapable of anything, which obviously is a highly flawed interpretation if you actually watch the video.

    I could never imagine someone like Derbyshire in a million years having this kind of conversation with any black person. To the contrary, he seems to have decided to devote his life's mission to preaching the most important fact in the world, that on average blacks are less intelligent and more violent compared to members of other ethnic groups. I'm not necessarily disagreeing with this as a matter of fact, but I wonder if a more productive message isn't to teach everyone how to get the most out of their innate capabilities by adopting the right cultural values. (Derbyshire actually gave a talk on just such a topic at Penn Law some number of years back, at the invitation of Amy Wax and the black student's association at the law school as well.)

    Instead, as you correctly point out, these so-called white nationalist writers offer no moral edification or wisdom of any kind, but are nothing more than mere prophets of fatalistic doom and gloom. One of my motivations for writing this article was what I perceived to be the pervasive cultural rot in contemporary American society. Many people have correctly pointed out that America stands at the edge of a precipice as over the coming decades blacks and Hispanics will surely eventually become a combined majority in this country. Now more than ever is when we should be fighting to instill the right ethos among Americans of all stripes.

    Sadly, in today's insane American society, it often seems like the extremist voices are the only ones that end up being heard. When seemingly your only choices are Social Justice Jihadis on the one hand, and right-wing fanatics like Richard Spencer, Jared Taylor, and John Derbyshire on the other, it's not a surprise that some bespectacled Korean guy ends up being by far the most sane person in the building. Or for instance that Chinese guy in the Democratic Republic of Congo...

    There was plenty of efforts of paternalism among whites. Most Confederate leaders behaved in such a manner, in fact.

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    • Replies: @Rdm
    Hey I thought Asians are the most patriarchal society according to what Asian women said.
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  • @AaronB
    You're absolutely right about that. "Whiteness" is itself an abstraction. of the worst kind, a product of the kind of overly logical thinking that has gotten us into this mess. It utterly lacks concreteness and the rich and dense emotional associations that are necessary ingredients for a collective mystique.

    However, a viable collective mystique - a sense of "peoplehood" - must contain some kind of ethnic component - a feeling of shared genetic heritage and collective fate, as a crucial element of this is a sense of gratitude and obligation towards ancestors as well as towards posterity.

    One of the silliest mistakes is to think this ethnic component must be "pure" - in fact all current "peoples" are the product of millenia of mixing of countless distinct tribes and occasionally even races - and another silly mistake is to focus exclusively on the genetic component, which is an abstraction, to the detriment of culture, place, and tradition, which are concrete, and capable of generating intense emotions.

    I think the era of "white America" is over and cannot be recovered - some kind of political break up will occur, and we will see the emergence of regional identities that will increasingly be a fusion of disparate ethnic elements, and which will in time develop into traditional nations with a distinct ethnic profile and a collective mystique based on emotional attachments to place, a sense of shared genetic identity, and the gradual build up of a "tradition".

    However, for whites to take part in this emerging order they must first develop the barest rudiments of a collective identity - perhaps they should call themselves "original Americans"? or "European Americans"? and emphasize the American culture from its inception till around 1950? - and re-learn to identify with a collective and discard the corrosive individualism, atomization, and materialism that has destroyed their self-confidence and rendered them weak and powerless in the face of other American tribes.

    On this basis of renewed self-love, whites can confidently enter into relations with other ethnic groups and participate in the process of forging a new nation. A renewed appreciation for collective identity is an indispensable element if whites are to relearn the skills needed to participate on a genuine "nation".

    Love of others starts with love of self - it's a widening circles outwards.

    And you're absolutely right that appreciation for non-rational factors is crucial for human flourishing - my favorite recent analogy is "dark matter", you can't see it but assuming it's existence is indispensable for certain systems to function effectively.

    Ultimately, the Western reification of "truth", "certainty", and "absolute clarity", led to a narrower and narrower circle of what could be accepted - leading to the abandonment of many assumptions necessary to our ability to thrive in this world. The funny thing is - the cutting edge of logic shows that if applied consistently logic becomes incoherent and thus cannot be anything more than a "useful fiction" (Kant, Nagarjuna), and science shows that as biological organisms our minds have evolved to only ever give us "useful fictions", and so logic itself indicates we have no reason to give up other so called "useful fictions" that cannot be "clearly" proven but seem baked into the nature of things as necessary conditions for the effective functioning of organic systems known as "humans".

    But popular culture has not caught up with these developments!

    You know, these days I only watch European and Asian shows on Netflix as a way of insulating myself from American cultural rot.

    I was recently watching this Japanese drama where the villain is a writer who insists on his books being absolutely "logical" and clear, while the oppressed but sympathetic hero advocates for vagueness, unclarity, the non logical and emotional thinking - it was such a striking defense of anti-Western thinking in a nation which is considered the world's preeminent master of "logical" technology!

    I mentioned on another thread that Asians (primarily but not exclusively within Asia or recent arrivals) strike me these days as so much more full of emotional expressiveness and eccentricity, and white Americans seem by contrast bland, drone like, and robotic - I wonder how much Asian stereotypes are projections of our own faults!

    The stereotype of the Asian "drone" is so wrong as to be striking - one is struck by how Asians are highly emotional and expressive.

    Surely the Asian ethical superiority has its roots in an appreciation for non-rational and emotional factors, while their mastery of technology shows logic can be successfuly utilized as a limited "useful fiction".

    And you’re absolutely right that appreciation for non-rational factors is crucial for human flourishing – my favorite recent analogy is “dark matter”, you can’t see it but assuming it’s existence is indispensable for certain systems to function effectively.

    I really like this analogy. And it brings an appropriate humility, I think, because we as humans seem to be really gleeful to jump to simplistic understandings of the universe but as part of my urge for epistemic virtues(as you well know of me), I’ve come to realize that our ignorance is vast and many of the stories we tell ourselves are but paper-bridges folded in our heads to explain that which is missing. Dark matter is a great example of this missing, yet vital part of the universe.

    I, of course, appreciate the beauty of emotional, romantic thinking. One of my great disappointments in the world was the gradual erosion of Weber’s “enchanted world,” the destruction of which came even as Sagan spoke of the end of the “demon-haunted world.”

    Well, Sagan did speak of the present:

    ‘I have a foreboding of an America in my children’s or my grandchildren’s time — when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers are in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what’s true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness. The dumbing down of America is most evident in the slow decay of substantative content in the enormously influential media, the 30-second sound bites (now down to 10 seconds or less), lowest common denominator programming, credulous presentations on pseudoscience and superstition, but especially a kind of celebration of ignorance.’

    Its an interesting thought, at any rate.

    I do agree with you about fiction. I don’t have much time to watch anything these days – adulthood is a drag, I tell you and Unz does the rest – but my wife(who is white) pretty much only watches Asian fiction these days and a few French things unless her friends insist on her to watch something with them(because, you know, American culture these days is cable TV). I’m not sure if its the cynicism or the poz or what is it, but pop fiction with the exception of Hollywood movies(with great technical skill) is pretty terrible. It somehow has managed to make itself about “love” but is completely absent of anything like romantic love that we can recognize, for one example.

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  • @James Forrestal
    If you visit China, will they see you as an "American," or as an "overseas Chinese?"

    http://www.8asians.com/2013/04/30/the-abc-and-fob-divide/

    I think you vastly overstate the case for worldwide ethnic Chinese solidarity. Even in the US, there’s oftentimes a clear social divide between ABCs and FOBs.

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    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    I know enough Overseas Chinese to see those from SE Asia as likely to be the staunchest supporters of Australia's better values including freedoms and that doesn't apply to great China chauvinists from China - though that wouldn't be a description of those who e.g. stayed after the Tianmen Square repression.
    , @James Forrestal
    Must be just evil, "racist" Whitey, then. Do Malysians see Chinese settlers as "just another Malaysian?" Do Vietnamese see them as "just another Vietnamese?"

    As far as the alleged nonexistence of overseas Chinese solidarity -- are they as unified, and as disdainful of the interests of their host countries, as the sayanim? Perhaps not. But that's a pretty high bar, of course. Don't see too many espionage case involving China where the culprit is of other than Chinese descent, now do ya?
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  • @res

    I’ve been thinking about this lately and I believe that honestly part of the error is the fact that white nationalists even attempt to create an identity around “white.” Its really as futile as Asians attempting to create an identity around “yellow.” There’s not really enough cultural glue for it to work.
     
    Interesting observation. A counterpoint is how the presence of varying degrees of outsiders affects the cohesion of varying levels of concentric loyalties.

    In any case, I think your point highlights the insanity of taking an already heterogeneous United States and overwhelming it with ever more divergent groups. Especially without even a willingness to pause for assimilation. And even more especially when those divergent groups seem to be actively hostile to the historical and existing culture here.

    One of the most interesting things about modern day white nationalism is how much more boring it is compared to the race realism of old-school guys like Lothrop Stoddard or Madison Grant.

    While before we used to get all sorts of interesting and fine grained distinctions among the various white sub-races, such as Northern vs Southern vs Eastern Europeans, today’s race realists basically tend to treat major racial groups such as blacks or whites as monolithic entities. Even in the case of blacks, this may be a flawed conception, as I’ve pointed out elsewhere regarding the possibility of cognitively elite sub-groups such as the Igbo or the Yoruba.

    I seem to recall that some guy named Adolf Hitler expended a tremendous amount of effort and energy in trying to wipe out the Slavic Russians from the face of planet earth. Today though, even the most ardently neo-Nazi websites like Stormfront tend to frown upon explicitly Nordicist points of view. I’ve seen moderators there threaten to ban commenters for challenging collective white pride and identity by advocating for evil, evil philosophies such as Nordic superiority over Eastern and Southern Europeans. I suppose in some ways this is rather heartening in the sense that while only some decades ago white Europeans seemed hell-bent on killing each other and trying to wipe one another off of the face of planet Earth, today’s neo-Nazis seem to have relatively little in common with the actual Nazis of yore and instead preach worldwide white harmony.

    Since you bring up the highly salient concept of differing levels of concentric loyalties, I suppose if American white nationalists ever got the all-white ethnostate they’re always going on endlessly about, maybe some of those old intra-white animosities would resurface again all of a sudden…

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  • @Tyrion 2

    And Tyrion, it’s pretty obvious that as a Jewish nationalist you’re just threatened by Asians….
     
    I'm a British nationalist and an intellectual Sinophile. Furthermore, as a Jew I can only respect the Chinese people's complete lack of anti-Semitism.

    I will tell you this…the ONLY way to successfully lose weight is, for instance, to have skinny friends or live in a thin country….
     
    Obviously not true even if it certainly helps. You're engaging in your customary splitting again.

    Perhaps if you had a greater sense of your inherent dignity you'd be a bit less BPD.

    as a Jew I can only respect the Chinese people’s complete lack of anti-Semitism.

    Because of a lack of exposure to Jews, but this is changing fast, especially in America. I do a lot of business with recent Chinese arrivals in America, and I have observed on another thread that there is growing trend of anti-Semitism among Chinese.

    Um, I guess there’s always the hope of space exploration revealing an alien species that will have “a complete absence of anti-Semitism”? For a while, at least… :)

    intellectual Sinophile

    Sure, Tyrion, sure :)

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    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
    There's no history of serious British anti-Semitism stretching all the way back to Cromwell.
    , @Anon
    I can say Yes, we are gradually understanding why so many are antisemitic after getting more contact with jews. I have few dealing with jews, they do gave me headache each time.

    Recently there was a ex-soviet guy kept pushing for everything unreasonably while behave so unusual miser, yet pretending to be wealthy & generous.

    He act like one who when seeing a beggar, he will think so hard how he can rip from him. If he gave me a spoonful of food(very strange isn't it) over meal, he will ask for free service worth a tonne persistently.

    So curiously I asked if he is a jews, he sheepishly said somehow yes as his grandma was.

    Similarly for typical Indians, they seldom honoured their words, always twist & turn to make dealing with them so exhaustive. While the chinese too have their own distinct characteristics like loud speaking, so are all other races each having own special traits.

    We just have to learn to be more patient living in this globalization world. Is not that what make life interesting?
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  • @AaronB
    It's a western romantic fiction that "inherent dignity" can be successfuly maintained outside of a collective support structure - it's s fiction that our public identities are stable and enduring. We are powerfully influenced in a thousand small and large ways by our society and environment, and we live in a "sticky web" of influences that we cannot extricate ourselves from or even fully understand. We are not individual units. Individual predisposition obviously plays a role - but the idea that "inherent integrity" doesn't massively benefit from an appropriate social support structure and isn't massively undermined by the lack of one is an error that is increasingly hard to maintain.

    I will tell you this...the ONLY way to successfully lose weight is, for instance, to have skinny friends or live in a thin country....

    In Japan if a student is failing in one subject the parties considered responsible are parents, family, friends, and ALL his teachers. They are all brought together in an attempt to solve the problem....now tell me again how Japan ranks on the Pisa tests compared to our wonderful Americans with "inherent integrity"?

    Asians are "unspiritual" and pragmatic - lol another stereotype that is an obvious projection of our own shadow side. European science is the world's paradigmatic example of an entire culture shifting to the merely pragmatic that will not likely ever be surpassed.

    Asians of course have a side to their culture that heavily emphasizes the pragmatic, that cannot be denied - but it's only crude binary thinking that sees a complete separation between the two. In a sense this is precisely our weakness - the pragmatic and the spiritual interpenetrate and ones efforts in the practical realm cannot flourish if one is not spiritually healthy - a fact we are learning.

    And Tyrion, it's pretty obvious that as a Jewish nationalist you're just threatened by Asians....

    I find myself in agreement with most of what you’ve stated in this thread. I think someone like Richard Nisbett would argue that Westerners are far more susceptible to the fundamental attribution error than are East Asians. I think this also explains why white nationalists like Jared Taylor or John Derbyshire are always going on endlessly about blacks, while I’ve argued the Chinese in Africa today have adopted much more of an attitude of Confucian paternalism.

    This is a somewhat famous clip from a documentary that many white nationalist types have excitedly jumped on as an example of a Chinese guy telling blacks that they’re basically incapable of anything, which obviously is a highly flawed interpretation if you actually watch the video.

    I could never imagine someone like Derbyshire in a million years having this kind of conversation with any black person. To the contrary, he seems to have decided to devote his life’s mission to preaching the most important fact in the world, that on average blacks are less intelligent and more violent compared to members of other ethnic groups. I’m not necessarily disagreeing with this as a matter of fact, but I wonder if a more productive message isn’t to teach everyone how to get the most out of their innate capabilities by adopting the right cultural values. (Derbyshire actually gave a talk on just such a topic at Penn Law some number of years back, at the invitation of Amy Wax and the black student’s association at the law school as well.)

    Instead, as you correctly point out, these so-called white nationalist writers offer no moral edification or wisdom of any kind, but are nothing more than mere prophets of fatalistic doom and gloom. One of my motivations for writing this article was what I perceived to be the pervasive cultural rot in contemporary American society. Many people have correctly pointed out that America stands at the edge of a precipice as over the coming decades blacks and Hispanics will surely eventually become a combined majority in this country. Now more than ever is when we should be fighting to instill the right ethos among Americans of all stripes.

    Sadly, in today’s insane American society, it often seems like the extremist voices are the only ones that end up being heard. When seemingly your only choices are Social Justice Jihadis on the one hand, and right-wing fanatics like Richard Spencer, Jared Taylor, and John Derbyshire on the other, it’s not a surprise that some bespectacled Korean guy ends up being by far the most sane person in the building. Or for instance that Chinese guy in the Democratic Republic of Congo…

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    • Agree: GammaRay
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    There was plenty of efforts of paternalism among whites. Most Confederate leaders behaved in such a manner, in fact.
    , @Wizard of Oz
    Please. Get to meet John Derbyshire and stop thinking of him as a right wing fanatic. He is an amusing individualist's individualist. Cp. his forcefully expressed sometimes eccentric views to old lefty Christopher Hitchens lining up to cheer the invasion of Iraq.

    Here's my favourite example of why you should enjoy JD.... On the old Human Biodiversity website site years ago someone posted a snippet from the BBC about humans sharing 70 per cent of their genes with pumpkins. Within 5 minutes of that being posted he came back with a limerick worthy of Robert Conquest, to wit:

    A certain young hillbilly bumpkin
    Was caught having sex with a pumpkin
    When arrested he swore
    What's all the fuss for
    Where I'm from it's OK to hump kin.
    , @AaronB
    Excellent and very true comment altogether, Yan.

    I completely agree with you regarding Confucius paternalism towards blacks. Imagine if Derbyshire said exactly the same thing, that blacks are a problematic and violent community, etc, etc, but added that we should help them to learn better behaviors and develop better values. Imagine the alt-right adopted this attitude, which would even be consistent with calls for segregation and the rest of it.

    Sure, there would be a massive outcry about white paternalism, but it would nevertheless undeniably raise the moral stature of the alt-right despite all the efforts of the MSM, and I bet it would even win over some blacks.

    The sheer hostility of the al-right towards all non-whites and the complete lack of any moral veneer is even incredibly stupid simply as strategy....

    But the alt-right is stupid, and have learned nothing from the successess of Jews.

    Of course, as Daniel Chieh says, whites used to be paternalistic, but the complete loss of cultural self-confidence has perhaps made this attitude impossible for whites - on another thread, I was dumbfounded to see alt-righters bickering with blacks over who is "superior" - so this is what it's come to for alt-righters! That's how low their confidence is!

    Related to what has been said so far, it also comes down to the strange "one-dimensional" character of recent white culture - they lack what I can only call the ability for "metacognition" - they see blacks as a problematic community, so they condemn. Simple and linear. They can't take a step back, look at the larger picture, and see how even as strategy it may make sense to make allies of the black community, as Jews did. Related to what has been said so far, they do not understand the "moral dimension" of conflict or of life.
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  • @James Forrestal
    "I’ve been thinking about this lately and I believe that honestly part of the error is the fact that white nationalists even attempt to create an identity around “white.” Its really as futile as Asians attempting to create an identity around “yellow.” There’s not really enough cultural glue for it to work."

    Of course. But this is not an accident. They're not really trying to "create" an identity, but regain one. The historic American nation is White, with Anglo-Protestant roots, but with significant incorporation of other groups that were closely related, both genetically and culturally. In the American context, this is what "White" refers to. See the book "Albion's Seed," for example. The concept of "American" has been hijacked with Blank Slate propaganda, going all the way back to the "Melting Pot" canard (which originated with a play written by an ardent Zionist), and continuing with meaningless memes such as "proposition nation," clearly counterfactual ones like "diversity is our strength," etc.

    This identity does not have nearly the depth (or length of history) that most European identities do, and it has been under sustained cultural and demographic assault for many years, so it's hardly surprising that it's now weak.

    "the essential death of mysticism which when pronounced, really does induce existential despair with the added evil that the rational denies it."

    Yeah, Christianity is also constantly attacked/ undermined by our hostile elite as well, of course. and for precisely this reason.

    TL;DR: you can't have a country without a nation; without a people.* The fact that it is possible for an alien, hostile elite to deconstruct that nation's identity, and to overwhelm it with "diverse" settlers, does not in anyway falsify that self-evident truth. Can that identity be rebuilt?

    How many "Israelis" were there in 1900?

    *This is the origin of the term "nation-state," of course. It's not redundant; the two are not synonymous.

    How many “Israelis” were there in 1900?

    Plenty enough. The Jewish have been extremely capable of surviving as an identity without being either in the majority or having territory. In that sense, AaronB has much to teach.

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    • Replies: @James Forrestal
    Your pathetic failure to give the (obviously correct) answer of "zero" is duly noted.
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  • @res

    I’ve been thinking about this lately and I believe that honestly part of the error is the fact that white nationalists even attempt to create an identity around “white.” Its really as futile as Asians attempting to create an identity around “yellow.” There’s not really enough cultural glue for it to work.
     
    Interesting observation. A counterpoint is how the presence of varying degrees of outsiders affects the cohesion of varying levels of concentric loyalties.

    In any case, I think your point highlights the insanity of taking an already heterogeneous United States and overwhelming it with ever more divergent groups. Especially without even a willingness to pause for assimilation. And even more especially when those divergent groups seem to be actively hostile to the historical and existing culture here.

    I’ve spent a lot of time in Europe before the recent waves of mass immigration, and I think its a chicken and egg question. I spent a lot of my time in Finland, for example, which is pretty low on immigration and you still sense the overarching despair: many of the young seek to escape to the US with the idea that they can then find joy here!

    Its my opinion that it really is the deeper sickness that AaronB refers to, a certain collapse of confidence in all of the aspects of life that made life organic, especially religion but a huge number of non-religious rituals too(pre-industrialization, domestic economy, expectations of a life cycle, social contract, etc.).

    From what I saw, I felt this: Diversity, etc, is emblematic of a few things: one being an effort to continue to support socialism through increasing the population for taxation, and a substitution for a new kind of religion of progress. In short, it is a secondary illness and thus watching the alt-right fight it so much is essentially watching frantic people scrap mold off a dying cat. The heart is failing – mold might be worsening the issue, but it won’t save the animal. Death comes, the most that can be said is that they get to choose the form of the destroyer. Heh.

    This isn’t, of course, isolated to the West. Modernity is acid. East Asia has been hit pretty bad too; insofar as it survives, its because it had enough cultural depth that losing so much of it still allowed something to linger. Well, maybe. The jury is still out, I think. Anomie is pretty common in East Asia, and the Japanese birth rate isn’t thrilling.

    I return to Nick Land again: “Capitalism was a speciation event.” Modernization has been an effect on humanity such that it wrecks the very definition of human, makes a mockery of society, and all customs. Who is to say that hope, sanity or even life will survive it?

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  • @AaronB
    It's a western romantic fiction that "inherent dignity" can be successfuly maintained outside of a collective support structure - it's s fiction that our public identities are stable and enduring. We are powerfully influenced in a thousand small and large ways by our society and environment, and we live in a "sticky web" of influences that we cannot extricate ourselves from or even fully understand. We are not individual units. Individual predisposition obviously plays a role - but the idea that "inherent integrity" doesn't massively benefit from an appropriate social support structure and isn't massively undermined by the lack of one is an error that is increasingly hard to maintain.

    I will tell you this...the ONLY way to successfully lose weight is, for instance, to have skinny friends or live in a thin country....

    In Japan if a student is failing in one subject the parties considered responsible are parents, family, friends, and ALL his teachers. They are all brought together in an attempt to solve the problem....now tell me again how Japan ranks on the Pisa tests compared to our wonderful Americans with "inherent integrity"?

    Asians are "unspiritual" and pragmatic - lol another stereotype that is an obvious projection of our own shadow side. European science is the world's paradigmatic example of an entire culture shifting to the merely pragmatic that will not likely ever be surpassed.

    Asians of course have a side to their culture that heavily emphasizes the pragmatic, that cannot be denied - but it's only crude binary thinking that sees a complete separation between the two. In a sense this is precisely our weakness - the pragmatic and the spiritual interpenetrate and ones efforts in the practical realm cannot flourish if one is not spiritually healthy - a fact we are learning.

    And Tyrion, it's pretty obvious that as a Jewish nationalist you're just threatened by Asians....

    And Tyrion, it’s pretty obvious that as a Jewish nationalist you’re just threatened by Asians….

    I’m a British nationalist and an intellectual Sinophile. Furthermore, as a Jew I can only respect the Chinese people’s complete lack of anti-Semitism.

    I will tell you this…the ONLY way to successfully lose weight is, for instance, to have skinny friends or live in a thin country….

    Obviously not true even if it certainly helps. You’re engaging in your customary splitting again.

    Perhaps if you had a greater sense of your inherent dignity you’d be a bit less BPD.

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    • Replies: @AaronB

    as a Jew I can only respect the Chinese people’s complete lack of anti-Semitism.
     
    Because of a lack of exposure to Jews, but this is changing fast, especially in America. I do a lot of business with recent Chinese arrivals in America, and I have observed on another thread that there is growing trend of anti-Semitism among Chinese.

    Um, I guess there's always the hope of space exploration revealing an alien species that will have "a complete absence of anti-Semitism"? For a while, at least... :)


    intellectual Sinophile
     
    Sure, Tyrion, sure :)
    , @res

    Furthermore, as a Jew I can only respect the Chinese people’s complete lack of anti-Semitism.
     
    Interesting.

    https://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2014/05/14/is-china-anti-semitic-one-jews-reflections/
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  • @James Forrestal
    If you visit China, will they see you as an "American," or as an "overseas Chinese?"

    They will see him as: “American-Chinese.”

    The reality is that people like us are in reality essentially the out-group everywhere.

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    • Replies: @James Forrestal
    "They will see him as: “American-Chinese.”

    The reality is that people like us are in reality essentially the out-group everywhere."


    Of course culture matters as well. This is far more true of Japanese going back to Japan than it is of Chinese, actually. And of anyone of mixed race, of course.

    Though Yan Shen is being more accurate (honest?) than you, in giving the term, not as hyphenated, but as "American Born Chinese." There's a reason why "Chinese" is the noun, and "American Born" the modifier, after all. Race-denialism is doesn't really seem to have taken hold in China...
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  • Look at those non-Chinese and their excessive self-esteem, hmm?

    https://ph.news.yahoo.com/chinese-teen-vandalizes-3-000-old-egyptian-relic-061609141.html

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  • @Yan Shen

    Love this country with all your heart, be loyal to her and no other country.
     
    Well since one of the themes of this article was the hypocrisy of the right-wing white-wing, despite their pretensions to fairness and universality, let me call out this little bit of sanctimony as well.

    We're always hearing alt-right types bemoaning the supposed lack of loyalty of non-whites in this country towards America. Thus Jewish Americans are always accused of dual loyalty to Israel and various people here always assert that my true loyalty lies with China, which is strange given that I'm obviously an American and staunchly a part of team Red, White, and Blue.

    Of course, one of the most curious things about white nationalism is that it actually seems to be fairly lacking in the nationalism arena given that it's more or less just a form of white racialism. Thus, we always see white nationalist types deeply concerned about various white countries around the globe, no matter how big or small, how near or far. It's really fascinating seeing so-called loyal American nationalists fretting so incessantly over the fates of countries like Poland or Hungary or Italy or the likes.

    Meanwhile, these same individuals probably could care less about large chunks of their own fellow countrymen. Can someone say chutzpah?

    So really, let's call out these right-wing whites as well on their dual loyalty. You have to make a choice. You're either loyal to America and Americans or you're loyal to white racialism.

    On a somewhat related note, perhaps if I were to change my name from Yan Shen to Ian Shen maybe that'll placate some of the right-wing whites in these parts of the blogosphere...

    “Well since one of the themes of this article was the hypocrisy of the right-wing white-wing, despite their pretensions to fairness and universality, let me call out this little bit of sanctimony as well.”

    They’re merely pointing out that the “proposition nation” meme is nonsensical, and that people like you employ it tactically; claiming that it’s somehow invalid for those of European descent to claim any organic identity, that we have a moral obligation to “deconstruct Whiteness.” Meanwhile, all other forms of racial/ cultural identity are not only valid, but something to be celebrated, of course.

    No one is claiming that your openly-expressed Han racial supremacism is somehow invalid. It’s not surprising that someone would support their own people. They’re merely pointing out that it’s there… and that it’s grossly inconsistent with your support for the officially-endorsed canards of the current year: the Blank Slate, the Magic Dirt, and the Proposition Nation.

    The hypocrisy is all on your side.

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    • Replies: @Yan Shen
    Well you obviously haven't read much of my commentary and have no idea who I am, since as someone who's been one of the staunchest advocates of HBD and race realism for at least the last 10 years, I'm shocked that you would accuse me of endorsing either the Blank Slate or Magic Dirt. To the contrary, I would argue that white nationalist types are better characterized as being proponents of Magic Dirt theory, since as I pointed out in my article they oftentimes invoke the same memes to explain East Asian academic success that blacks and Hispanics invoke to explain relative white American academic success.

    On the other hand, I can kinda sorta subscribe to the notion of the Proposition Nation. At a minimum, since non-Hispanic whites are only 61-62% of the overall population today, white nationalism narrowly construed really is one of those hopelessly pollyannish notions that has no real validity or chance at ever coming to fruition.

    By the way, it's also highly flawed to accuse me of Han racial supremacism. In fact my last article here argued for something very different, that based on HBD, I expected Western and Eastern societies to increasingly specialize in different areas.

    http://www.unz.com/article/iq-or-the-mathverbal-split/

    Regardless of whether or not HBD is valid, I do think there's a lot to be said for adopting the right cultural values and attitudes and basically working to maximize the most of what you're born with. You really can't ask for more than for each person to give their absolute best effort.

    This also has the additional plus that just in case the strong hereditarian position isn't quite as correct as we might assume it to be, you've put in the required work as well to get more output than what you might've expected under a strong HBD assumption.

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  • @TT

    like like china is doing in this moments to tibetans and uighurs
     
    Its amazing even in unz site, there are always endless of such either ignorant brainwashed or trolls still regurgitating msm lies about China invading & killing in Tibet & Uyghur.

    Hundreds of years ago, Manchus invaded China, and took Tibet too. After China become free from Qing dynasty(Manchus), Tibet become part of China by historical reason. Then FUKUS India invaded southern Tibet, CIA sponsored & trained Tibetans under Dalai Lama(CIA declassified) to subvert China.

    Whereas Uyghur, the Turks terrorists are trained in (CIA & KSA wahabhi sponsored)Turkey terrorist camp. Russia bombed an entire village of Uyghur terrorists(with ISIS flags decoration) at Syria-Turkey border after they killed a Russian pilot. Turkey Erogan thumping his chest saying they are his closest kins(RT).

    These Turks are not native but Eastern turks nomadic invading Xinjiang, real native is Hui minority. They vow to exterminate all Hui & Hans, conducting mass killings of innocents regularly. This is a CIA-Turkey project to subvert China, similar to Chechnya Muslims war instigated by CIA-Nato under KSA Wahabi sponsorship.

    Today, Tibet & Xinjiang both enjoying all the China subsidized prosperity with FSR. Go visit to see yourself & stop been Fukus Indian propaganda mouthpiece.

    The South Tibet is still under massacre & rape by India, back by West graceful humanity mission.

    “Tibet become part of China by historical reason”

    Tibetan script/writing system is so similar to North Indian languages. Should it not be like some Chinese language? Just trying to understand and not questioning the fact that Tibet is part of China and will stay that way.

    You are right that Tibet benefits economically by staying close to China. But then Others could argue that Taiwan, HongKong should have stayed close to the west for economic reasons but that was considered imperialistic attitude.

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    • Replies: @TT

    Tibetan script/writing system is so similar to North Indian languages. Should it not be like some Chinese language? Just trying to understand and not questioning the fact that Tibet is part of China and will stay that way.
     
    From my understanding, ancient Northern part of current India(including Pakistan) is probably the oldest ancient civilization, much older than China, spreading far to further North(Afghanistan, Tibet, Nepal) & East(Bangladesh, China). Even some ancient China scriptures are written in old India "Sanskrit/Pali" writing.

    China inherited much from India civilization. In Hans dynasty India is known as XiYu(West Region) with vast records on astrology, science, spiritual, cultural, etc. Mahayana Buddhism was adopted by the Emperor & wide spread throughout Jp, Korea & SEAsia till present.

    Many traders or missionaries came from north India to China to spread their civilization, some settled down and help translated to Chinese language. These are still in China record.

    Tibet being closer to North India, received its Tibetan Buddhism from India too, albeit the wrong Tantra version instead of original Theravada Buddhism(still prominent in Sri Lanka, Thailand, Myanmar, Laos, Cambodia, some part of Bangladesh). So its not surprise the writing is similar to northern India. Tibetan is a mixture of Tantra Buddhism & Tibet culture.

    Chinese has little influence over Tibet, which is a good sign that keep Tibet culture unchange.

    Even Nepal language is very closed to India, i was surprise my Indian friend was able to understand what Nepalese were talking during our Nepal trip. Sri Lanka Sanskrit & Buddhism is also greatly influence by India, esp during Great Asoka King period.

    Still that doesn't justify India ambitious expansion policy & endless invasion to all its border countries since independent. Not a single neighbour is spared from India invasion.

    You are right that Tibet benefits economically by staying close to China. But then Others could argue that Taiwan, HongKong should have stayed close to the west for economic reasons but that was considered imperialistic attitude.
     
    They are absolutely different to be compared in any way.

    What i only wanted to point out is Tibet & Xinjiang aren't under any kind of China tyranny suppression or massacre that the West out to demonize China. They are actually enjoying so much minority privilege & economy subsidy as autonomous regions. Even Philippine Prez was joking about asking China to incorporate them in as one province.

    Whereas HK was forcefully taken away by invading British under unequal term during opium war. Taiwan is a civil war historical burden. You are confusing yourself too much.

    Btw, it will be foolish to still thinking staying close to declining bankrupt West will lead to better prosperity than the already risen China, the economy body slated to be larger than US & EU combined within few decades.
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  • @Daniel Chieh

    Some things it gets only half right. One of the reasons whites are so demotivated is because they lack a well defined collective identity they can view positively.
     

    I've been thinking about this lately and I believe that honestly part of the error is the fact that white nationalists even attempt to create an identity around "white." Its really as futile as Asians attempting to create an identity around "yellow." There's not really enough cultural glue for it to work. I've been around Alt-Right groups for quite some time and ultimately they all fail(and pretty rapidly) for that reason(and a few others): with an essentially hollow core, they swiftly collapse upon themselves.

    I think you've talked about this as cultural depth and ultimately it is highly associated with having any meaning for life at all; the essential death of mysticism which when pronounced, really does induce existential despair with the added evil that the rational denies it. Nick Land once said that horror is realizing that everyone else around you is an android made to resemble a human; existential horror is realizing that you, too, are one who is programmed to believe that he is human. The destruction of all irrational components is hazardous to our conception of the world, and perhaps not even survivable. There's a quite chthonic horror in realizing that the very tools that one wishes to "save" his reality, is the very tools that poison himself.

    4chan is interesting in that sense; do you know something that /pol/ does, arguably one of the most resilient "alt-right" hubs? They play around with the idea that the randomly generated numbers of the posts if digits appear in "doubles" or "triples" might give the statement greater validity. So if a post said "The world will end" and gets the number 77777, it is seen by "kek" people as having great truth and power. Its playing around(with a few exception of true believers), but that little playing around is...powerful. It provides irrational hope, and it always draws a lot of "players."

    Perhaps life without any irrational, mystic qualities is life not worth living at all. There's a non-trivial consideration that is the logic behind Fukuyama's End of History, where reason has eliminated all choices except the most technical ones(4% interest or 5% interest?). And even he commented on how boring it would be.

    The death of the flesh follows the death of the spirit.

    “I’ve been thinking about this lately and I believe that honestly part of the error is the fact that white nationalists even attempt to create an identity around “white.” Its really as futile as Asians attempting to create an identity around “yellow.” There’s not really enough cultural glue for it to work.”

    Of course. But this is not an accident. They’re not really trying to “create” an identity, but regain one. The historic American nation is White, with Anglo-Protestant roots, but with significant incorporation of other groups that were closely related, both genetically and culturally. In the American context, this is what “White” refers to. See the book “Albion’s Seed,” for example. The concept of “American” has been hijacked with Blank Slate propaganda, going all the way back to the “Melting Pot” canard (which originated with a play written by an ardent Zionist), and continuing with meaningless memes such as “proposition nation,” clearly counterfactual ones like “diversity is our strength,” etc.

    This identity does not have nearly the depth (or length of history) that most European identities do, and it has been under sustained cultural and demographic assault for many years, so it’s hardly surprising that it’s now weak.

    “the essential death of mysticism which when pronounced, really does induce existential despair with the added evil that the rational denies it.”

    Yeah, Christianity is also constantly attacked/ undermined by our hostile elite as well, of course. and for precisely this reason.

    TL;DR: you can’t have a country without a nation; without a people.* The fact that it is possible for an alien, hostile elite to deconstruct that nation’s identity, and to overwhelm it with “diverse” settlers, does not in anyway falsify that self-evident truth. Can that identity be rebuilt?

    How many “Israelis” were there in 1900?

    *This is the origin of the term “nation-state,” of course. It’s not redundant; the two are not synonymous.

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    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh

    How many “Israelis” were there in 1900?

     

    Plenty enough. The Jewish have been extremely capable of surviving as an identity without being either in the majority or having territory. In that sense, AaronB has much to teach.
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  • @Ju Ahn
    I've seen plenty of Nordicists on WN forums. As well as people praising their Germanic roots and such. Also people frequently talk about America's Anglo Saxon origin and their superiority dating back to British Empires. They also talk about Greece and Ancient Rome and also like to take credit for every single human ingenuity. Even things they did not invent like gunpowder and metal movable types (invented in Europe by Gutenberg but invented in East Asia at least two centuries in advance).

    I haven't met many Asians who talks about stuff like Asian superiority in public either. Most stuff I read are from white writers who likes to use Asian success in U.S. for their political reasons.

    “I’ve seen plenty of Nordicists on WN forums.”

    Uh, you realize that the vast majority of these “Italians aren’t White!” people are divide and conquer trolls from an entirely different ethnic group, don’t you? It’s a very common (and effective) technique.

    Very few people these days could even correctly describe the old Nordic/ Alpine/ Mediterranean model.

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  • @Yan Shen
    Well I've probably stated this at least 100 times by now, but I'm obviously an American. I have US citizenship, a US passport, and pretty much anything else legally that would identify me as a citizen of this country.

    The extremists though are always insinuating that somehow this isn't enough. About the only other thing I could do is to adopt some good ole fashioned American name like John or Steve or Ron, but I think at this point it's probably a bit too late to legally change my name...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1mlCPMYtPk

    If you visit China, will they see you as an “American,” or as an “overseas Chinese?”

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    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    They will see him as: "American-Chinese."

    The reality is that people like us are in reality essentially the out-group everywhere.
    , @Yan Shen
    http://www.8asians.com/2013/04/30/the-abc-and-fob-divide/

    I think you vastly overstate the case for worldwide ethnic Chinese solidarity. Even in the US, there's oftentimes a clear social divide between ABCs and FOBs.

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  • @Wizard of Oz
    Thanks. I'll stand by my enthusiasm for the smart and entertaining British imperialist the Earl of Beaconsfield

    My point, of course, is that Disraeli wanted to have it both ways. He wanted to be seen as “truly English,” while identifying with a different group, whose interests often differed from those of the English. To use his own terms, the “Anglo-Saxon race” and the “Jewish race.”

    Of course, this is still a very relevant concept today — see AIPAC, etc.

    Disraeli’s use of the term “Hebrew Arabs” in some of his work (“Coningsby” for example) is another interesting indication of how he viewed his identity.

    There are certainly some interesting interactions between the two groups, as your use of the term “British imperialism” alludes to. The opium wars served to protect the Sassoon-controlled opium trade. And who were Rhode’s financial backers?

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    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    Interesting to extend your thought experiment of Disraeli as a kind of one man AIPAC (with some Jewish network substituted for Israel). But I don't think it is easy to make it work. He was a highly imaginative novelist, something too of a charmer and fantasist. Think of the way Lloyd George was an outsider able to fascinate people.

    Remembering that he was an Anglican who had achieved success in life as a conventional upper middle class Englishman whose base for glory was the greatness of Britain not the network of Jewry I would guess that Jewishness was part of his fantasy life and inspiration as a storyteller rather than an AIPAC type divided loyalty.

    As to the Opium Wars I always thought the Scottish Jardine Mathieson were more significant than the Sassoons. As to the Sassoons it may be important to remember that they were Sephardi (anyway not Ashkenazi, and very exotic before they became English gentlemen) and - I am just skipping through memories - English enough to produce Siegfried Sassoon the WW1 officer and poet.
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  • @Ju Ahn
    This type of thinking is the exact reason why non-white groups have difficulty calling and accepting America as their own country. For some reason, becoming US citizen is enough to be an American for people like Yan and I must also accept American names, becoming Johns, Michaels, Matthews, Joes like everyone else.

    As long as anti-Asian discrimination exists in the US, every Asian American must also consider their position as an Asian in this country for the mere concern of their survival (getting into universities, being able to secure jobs). This doesn't stop some of us from also cherishing America as a country of our own as many Asians would support US in a trade war vs China and in many other matters. If you think American as white American people then we do not identify as such. However, we do not think being white is either sufficient nor necessary condition for being an American.

    And of course, people China or Korea would accept a White person as “really Chinese” or “really Korean” if they somehow managed to gain citizenship there, right? Sounds legit.

    Or is it only America that has the “magic dirt?” The slate is blank here, but not over there? Yeah, that makes sense.

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  • @GammaRay
    Im not making a strictly moral argument against colonization. Furthermore, Im actually making two separate but equally reasonable arguments.

    1.If you want to complain about immigration or multiculturalism then this automatically holds you to a higher ethical standard yourself. IE, you cannot complain about immigration but then turn around and be proud of the fact that your ancestors were (violent) immigrants themselves. The point I am making is not about whether or not colonization is a crime, the point I am making is one of being morally consistent and not being hypocritical. This is a very simple point, but many alt-righters and white nationalist trip over this point, every single time. In fact they trot out the same argument that you are trying to trot out, however this argument is ineffective because its not addressing the heart of the matter, which is the moral inconsistency of the alt-right/white nationalists. The alt-right/white nationalists are entitled to make practical arguments against immigration, but they are not entitled to make moral/ethical arguments against immigration unless they first ditch the whole "we whites were colonists and we did nothing wrong" shtick; it is completely hypocritical and it also sounds completely absurd, hollow and unconvincing to anyone who doesn't share their views.

    2.I'm making a practical observation about the situation which the west is facing; I'm not advocating anything which is what you seem to be trying to suggest. Instead of trying to resort to dancing around the topic and arguing abstractions, why don't you answer my original question for yourself?

    "Is globalization built upon the political and cultural frameworks left behind as a legacy of european colonization?"

    Its a simple yes or no answer. The answer is obviously yes, and this confirms my original point; which is that none of the maladies that the west is currently facing would even exist had the europeans decided not to colonize the entire world. The current problem with globalization, multiculturalism, mass immigration etc etc is entirely a problem of the west's own making. They have no one to blame but themselves. This is the harsh brutal truth of the matter. The europeans gained entire landmasses due to their colonial adventures but in the same way they gained new problems as well. What I am saying is not a controversial statement, its patently true. You are trying to act as if I'm passing a moral indictment against the entire west, but actually I'm passing a practical one. Whether or not the west has the right to exist is not at the heart of the matter, what is at the heart of the matter is whether or not the west will succumb to the very developments which it itself set into place many centuries ago. In my opinion it will, and I think it is just deserts, but this is not the same as me saying that the west does not have the right to exist. I am merely agreeing with the direction that a pre-existing state of affairs is moving in. Alt-righters and white nationalists know that what I am saying is true on a visceral level, but it is far too damning and indicting for them to fathom the possibility that the west entirely brought this situation on themselves, as a result they can only resort to projecting their problems outwards and trying to blame anyone and everyone but themselves.


    i dont think so thats for not talking about sweeden ,norwegians eastern europeans…what damage have this people done?
     
    you betray your own ignorance of history and current events by making this argument. I dont know why so many white nationalists/alt-righters try to make this argument when it can be easily debunked with some cursory googling.

    1.Scandinavian countries actually did play a direct role in colonization as well as heavily participating in the intra-european economy that was based upon colonization exploitation. You didn't know about this?

    2.Why do alt-righters/white nationalists continue to talk about eastern europe being a victim of multiculturalism? Are there even any substantial amount of non-white immigrants in eastern europe? Or are you just erroneously assuming this? Eastern european countries are very loud and very adamant about rejecting multicultural policies, this is factually true. But it is not factually true that eastern european countries are dealing with massive amounts of immigrants like you seem to be implying. Why make this kind of argument when it can be so easily debunked?

    So your’e arguing that the Turks should give back Constantinople to the Greeks? OK

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    • Replies: @GammaRay
    Like most alt-righters/white nationalists, you have strong pretensions of intellectualism but then when push comes to shove, you don't hesitate to display your own intellectual laziness. I clearly stated that I was not making any moral arguments against colonialism itself, but rather I was making these two separate arguments regarding colonialism:

    1.the importance of being internally consistent about your views regarding your own cultural/racial survival and your attitudes towards colonial actions carried out by the group which you identify yourself with.


    The alt-right/white nationalists are entitled to make practical arguments against immigration, but they are not entitled to make moral/ethical arguments against immigration unless they first ditch the whole “we whites were colonists and we did nothing wrong” shtick; it is completely hypocritical and it also sounds completely absurd, hollow and unconvincing to anyone who doesn’t share their views.
     
    The alt-right/white nationalists have the right to make moral/ethical arguments against mass immigration and multiculturalism only if they first amend their current apologetic stance regarding the western colonization of the world. If they are unable or unwilling to do this, then any arguments they make regarding the morality/ethicalness of mass immigration to the west will not be taken seriously by anybody. Who values the word of a hypocrite? Nobody

    2.Practically speaking (all moral considerations aside), it strongly appears that the west has set itself up for disaster by inadvertently setting the stage for globalization, which in turn allowed mass-immigration to manifest by providing the technological and political framework necessary for it to happen in the first place. Had western colonization never happened then the rest of the world outside of europe would still be stuck in a timeless, relatively technologically unadvanced state. It was the west that brought the rest of the world into the modern age, kicking and screaming. Don't forget that. And now it is the west that will inadvertently end up paying the price for it. Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind.

    You are free to re-read every word of my previous post. You obviously did not take the time to digest what I was saying, because if you did then it would be clear that your rebuttal is actually misplaced, and furthermore, you are trying to make a rhetorical point in response to an argument which I was never making in the first place. You are trying to claim that I am making the argument that everyone should try to amend for their own colonial misdeeds, when in fact I was never making that argument to begin with. The only arguments I was making was one of being morally consistent, and also that of dealing with unintended consequences. Your one liner drive by comment fails to debunk either of the arguments which I put forth. Nice try? You deserve an F for effort though ;) As I said before, most alt-righters/white nationalists lack the ability (willingness?) to really think about their political platform and ensure that it is based upon a logical and morally consistent foundation. Instead they base their arguments on raw emotions, indignation (and a LARGE dose of vitriolic racism) and then wonder why they are marginalized by the mainstream. LOL, keep cucking yourselves guys
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  • @Ju Ahn
    I'm willing to bet even most white people are not descendants of the founding fathers of this country who were here by 1776. So, your (or many other WNs) claim to this country is that you belong to same ethnic group as Abraham Lincoln or Benjamin Franklin. That kind of reasoning is very ethnocentric. You need to start calling out other white people as immigrants not just Asians and Hispanic people just because we are people of different color and are very easy to point us out from the mass.

    Either way you're missing the point, I don't think we're arguing for immigration reform here unlike Latin American groups. I'm actually very against open border policies and many East Asians would agree. There are East Asians who support open border policies but so do many white people.
    We are just arguing for fair and transparent admissions policy in our colleges.

    You can actually see that many people that belong to minority groups are actually against illegal immigration despite what many activists groups claim.

    Below Data is from External Website:

    [
    In contrast to the leadership of many ethnic advocacy groups, most members of minority groups think immigration is too high.

    Hispanics: 56 percent said it is too high; 7 percent said too low; 14 percent just right.

    Asian-Americans: 57 percent said immigration is too high; 5 percent said too low; 18 percent just right.

    African-Americans: 68 percent said it is too high; 4 percent said too low; 14 percent just right.
    Most members of minority groups do not feel that illegal immigration is caused by limits on legal immigration as many ethnic advocacy groups argue; instead, members feel it’s due to a lack of enforcement.

    Hispanics: Just 20 percent said illegal immigration was caused by not letting in enough legal immigrants; 61 percent said inadequate enforcement.

    Asian-Americans: 19 percent said not enough legal immigration; 69 percent said inadequate enforcement.

    African-Americans: 16 percent said not enough legal immigration; 70 percent said inadequate enforcement.
    Most members of minority groups feel that there are plenty of Americans available to fill unskilled jobs.

    Hispanics: 15 percent said legal immigration should be increased to fill unskilled jobs; 65 percent said there are plenty of Americans available to do unskilled jobs, employers just need to pay more.

    Asian-Americans: 19 percent said increase immigration; 65 percent said plenty of Americans are available.

    African-Americans: 6 percent said increase immigration; 81 percent said plenty of Americans are available.
    When asked to choose between enforcement that would cause illegal immigrants in the country to go home or offering them a pathway to citizenship with conditions, most members of minority groups choose enforcement.

    Hispanics: 52 percent support enforcement to encourage illegals to go home; 34 percent support conditional legalization.

    Asian-Americans: 57 percent support enforcement; 29 percent support conditional legalization.

    African-Americans: 50 percent support enforcement; 30 percent support conditional legalization.

    Source: https://cis.org/Examination-Minority-Voters-Views-Immigration
    ]

    “…immigration to South Korea is low due to strict immigration policies”
    “Most immigrants are not eligible for citizenship or even permanent residency, unless they are married to a South Korean citizen or have invested more than $5 million USD in the local economy”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_South_Korea

    And of course, North Korea = juche. No racial element to that at all, hmm?

    Open borders for thee, but not for me…

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    • Troll: Ju Ahn
    • Replies: @Ju Ahn
    Yes, Wikipedia is always right. I suggest you review the source quoted by wikipedia whenever something questionable appears there.

    Similar policy exists for the US,
    I suggest you review our national immigration policy before criticizing other countries.

    "Green Card for Immigrant Investors
    U.S. immigration law allows certain foreign nationals who are employment-based immigrants to become lawful permanent residents (get a Green Card). One employment-based (EB) “preference immigrant” category includes foreign nationals who have invested or are actively in the process of investing $1 million (or $500,000 in targeted employment areas) in a new commercial enterprise that will benefit the U.S. economy and create at least 10 full-time positions for qualifying employees. These foreign nationals are also called “EB-5 immigrant investors” because they are in the employment-based fifth preference visa category. See the EB-5 Immigrant Investor Program for more information about this visa category."
     
    https://www.uscis.gov/greencard/investors

    "The following persons are eligible to apply for permanent residency

    - Those who are adults by Korea's civil law and have stayed in Korea with F-2 Status for more than five years ,and ① have financial capacity to support themselves and their family ② have attainments such as being well-behaved and understanding Korean traditions enough to stay permanently in Korea, or
    - Those who have invested more than 500,000 USD in Korea and have stayed in Korea with D-8 Status for more than three years, while contributing to creating employment opportunities for Korean nationals (more than 5 Koreans), or
    - Those who have invested more than 5,000,000 USD in Korea and whose acquisition of Permanent Residency is deemed proper by the Justice Minister, or
    - Those who have special contributions to Korea and whose special contributions are recognized by the Justice Minister"
     
    https://web.archive.org/web/20071212091356/http://www.dh.go.kr/open_content/english/goverment/09_04_08.htm

    Pretty sure policies for both nations are similar. Apart from the fact that US liberals also want to grant citizenship to illegals through DACA and other pathways to citizenship programs. Other exceptions include refugee programs and such.
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  • @Tyrion 2

    Some things it gets only half right. One of the reasons whites are so demotivated is because they lack a well defined collective identity they can view positively. In this sense, a basic sense of collective self-esteem is a necessary pre-condition for highly motivated behavior of any kind, as well as realistic and tough self-criticism, or any program of self-improvement.
     
    You're confusing a sense of inherent dignity with your political hobby horse of collective self-esteem.

    Related to this, whites lack a social support structure. Parents, friends, and society provide little incentive to work hard and little social reward for doing so, creating an environment in which only those with the most enormous egos and self-aggrandizing personalities are able to generate the necessary motivation, reminding one of the lines by Yeats “The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate …”
     
    Atomisation partly results from the death of social institutions. They have been replaced by the administrative state and the market.

    Perhaps this is a result of the decline of spiritualism in the West but then East Asia, an historically particularly materialistic culture set, would not exactly be the best example of a solution.

    It’s a western romantic fiction that “inherent dignity” can be successfuly maintained outside of a collective support structure – it’s s fiction that our public identities are stable and enduring. We are powerfully influenced in a thousand small and large ways by our society and environment, and we live in a “sticky web” of influences that we cannot extricate ourselves from or even fully understand. We are not individual units. Individual predisposition obviously plays a role – but the idea that “inherent integrity” doesn’t massively benefit from an appropriate social support structure and isn’t massively undermined by the lack of one is an error that is increasingly hard to maintain.

    I will tell you this…the ONLY way to successfully lose weight is, for instance, to have skinny friends or live in a thin country….

    In Japan if a student is failing in one subject the parties considered responsible are parents, family, friends, and ALL his teachers. They are all brought together in an attempt to solve the problem….now tell me again how Japan ranks on the Pisa tests compared to our wonderful Americans with “inherent integrity”?

    Asians are “unspiritual” and pragmatic – lol another stereotype that is an obvious projection of our own shadow side. European science is the world’s paradigmatic example of an entire culture shifting to the merely pragmatic that will not likely ever be surpassed.

    Asians of course have a side to their culture that heavily emphasizes the pragmatic, that cannot be denied – but it’s only crude binary thinking that sees a complete separation between the two. In a sense this is precisely our weakness – the pragmatic and the spiritual interpenetrate and ones efforts in the practical realm cannot flourish if one is not spiritually healthy – a fact we are learning.

    And Tyrion, it’s pretty obvious that as a Jewish nationalist you’re just threatened by Asians….

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    • Replies: @Tyrion 2

    And Tyrion, it’s pretty obvious that as a Jewish nationalist you’re just threatened by Asians….
     
    I'm a British nationalist and an intellectual Sinophile. Furthermore, as a Jew I can only respect the Chinese people's complete lack of anti-Semitism.

    I will tell you this…the ONLY way to successfully lose weight is, for instance, to have skinny friends or live in a thin country….
     
    Obviously not true even if it certainly helps. You're engaging in your customary splitting again.

    Perhaps if you had a greater sense of your inherent dignity you'd be a bit less BPD.

    , @Yan Shen
    I find myself in agreement with most of what you've stated in this thread. I think someone like Richard Nisbett would argue that Westerners are far more susceptible to the fundamental attribution error than are East Asians. I think this also explains why white nationalists like Jared Taylor or John Derbyshire are always going on endlessly about blacks, while I've argued the Chinese in Africa today have adopted much more of an attitude of Confucian paternalism.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtsa0MT2H4I

    This is a somewhat famous clip from a documentary that many white nationalist types have excitedly jumped on as an example of a Chinese guy telling blacks that they're basically incapable of anything, which obviously is a highly flawed interpretation if you actually watch the video.

    I could never imagine someone like Derbyshire in a million years having this kind of conversation with any black person. To the contrary, he seems to have decided to devote his life's mission to preaching the most important fact in the world, that on average blacks are less intelligent and more violent compared to members of other ethnic groups. I'm not necessarily disagreeing with this as a matter of fact, but I wonder if a more productive message isn't to teach everyone how to get the most out of their innate capabilities by adopting the right cultural values. (Derbyshire actually gave a talk on just such a topic at Penn Law some number of years back, at the invitation of Amy Wax and the black student's association at the law school as well.)

    Instead, as you correctly point out, these so-called white nationalist writers offer no moral edification or wisdom of any kind, but are nothing more than mere prophets of fatalistic doom and gloom. One of my motivations for writing this article was what I perceived to be the pervasive cultural rot in contemporary American society. Many people have correctly pointed out that America stands at the edge of a precipice as over the coming decades blacks and Hispanics will surely eventually become a combined majority in this country. Now more than ever is when we should be fighting to instill the right ethos among Americans of all stripes.

    Sadly, in today's insane American society, it often seems like the extremist voices are the only ones that end up being heard. When seemingly your only choices are Social Justice Jihadis on the one hand, and right-wing fanatics like Richard Spencer, Jared Taylor, and John Derbyshire on the other, it's not a surprise that some bespectacled Korean guy ends up being by far the most sane person in the building. Or for instance that Chinese guy in the Democratic Republic of Congo...

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  • @Daniel Chieh

    Some things it gets only half right. One of the reasons whites are so demotivated is because they lack a well defined collective identity they can view positively.
     

    I've been thinking about this lately and I believe that honestly part of the error is the fact that white nationalists even attempt to create an identity around "white." Its really as futile as Asians attempting to create an identity around "yellow." There's not really enough cultural glue for it to work. I've been around Alt-Right groups for quite some time and ultimately they all fail(and pretty rapidly) for that reason(and a few others): with an essentially hollow core, they swiftly collapse upon themselves.

    I think you've talked about this as cultural depth and ultimately it is highly associated with having any meaning for life at all; the essential death of mysticism which when pronounced, really does induce existential despair with the added evil that the rational denies it. Nick Land once said that horror is realizing that everyone else around you is an android made to resemble a human; existential horror is realizing that you, too, are one who is programmed to believe that he is human. The destruction of all irrational components is hazardous to our conception of the world, and perhaps not even survivable. There's a quite chthonic horror in realizing that the very tools that one wishes to "save" his reality, is the very tools that poison himself.

    4chan is interesting in that sense; do you know something that /pol/ does, arguably one of the most resilient "alt-right" hubs? They play around with the idea that the randomly generated numbers of the posts if digits appear in "doubles" or "triples" might give the statement greater validity. So if a post said "The world will end" and gets the number 77777, it is seen by "kek" people as having great truth and power. Its playing around(with a few exception of true believers), but that little playing around is...powerful. It provides irrational hope, and it always draws a lot of "players."

    Perhaps life without any irrational, mystic qualities is life not worth living at all. There's a non-trivial consideration that is the logic behind Fukuyama's End of History, where reason has eliminated all choices except the most technical ones(4% interest or 5% interest?). And even he commented on how boring it would be.

    The death of the flesh follows the death of the spirit.

    I’ve been thinking about this lately and I believe that honestly part of the error is the fact that white nationalists even attempt to create an identity around “white.” Its really as futile as Asians attempting to create an identity around “yellow.” There’s not really enough cultural glue for it to work.

    Interesting observation. A counterpoint is how the presence of varying degrees of outsiders affects the cohesion of varying levels of concentric loyalties.

    In any case, I think your point highlights the insanity of taking an already heterogeneous United States and overwhelming it with ever more divergent groups. Especially without even a willingness to pause for assimilation. And even more especially when those divergent groups seem to be actively hostile to the historical and existing culture here.

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    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    I've spent a lot of time in Europe before the recent waves of mass immigration, and I think its a chicken and egg question. I spent a lot of my time in Finland, for example, which is pretty low on immigration and you still sense the overarching despair: many of the young seek to escape to the US with the idea that they can then find joy here!

    Its my opinion that it really is the deeper sickness that AaronB refers to, a certain collapse of confidence in all of the aspects of life that made life organic, especially religion but a huge number of non-religious rituals too(pre-industrialization, domestic economy, expectations of a life cycle, social contract, etc.).

    From what I saw, I felt this: Diversity, etc, is emblematic of a few things: one being an effort to continue to support socialism through increasing the population for taxation, and a substitution for a new kind of religion of progress. In short, it is a secondary illness and thus watching the alt-right fight it so much is essentially watching frantic people scrap mold off a dying cat. The heart is failing - mold might be worsening the issue, but it won't save the animal. Death comes, the most that can be said is that they get to choose the form of the destroyer. Heh.

    This isn't, of course, isolated to the West. Modernity is acid. East Asia has been hit pretty bad too; insofar as it survives, its because it had enough cultural depth that losing so much of it still allowed something to linger. Well, maybe. The jury is still out, I think. Anomie is pretty common in East Asia, and the Japanese birth rate isn't thrilling.

    I return to Nick Land again: "Capitalism was a speciation event." Modernization has been an effect on humanity such that it wrecks the very definition of human, makes a mockery of society, and all customs. Who is to say that hope, sanity or even life will survive it?
    , @Yan Shen
    One of the most interesting things about modern day white nationalism is how much more boring it is compared to the race realism of old-school guys like Lothrop Stoddard or Madison Grant.

    While before we used to get all sorts of interesting and fine grained distinctions among the various white sub-races, such as Northern vs Southern vs Eastern Europeans, today's race realists basically tend to treat major racial groups such as blacks or whites as monolithic entities. Even in the case of blacks, this may be a flawed conception, as I've pointed out elsewhere regarding the possibility of cognitively elite sub-groups such as the Igbo or the Yoruba.

    I seem to recall that some guy named Adolf Hitler expended a tremendous amount of effort and energy in trying to wipe out the Slavic Russians from the face of planet earth. Today though, even the most ardently neo-Nazi websites like Stormfront tend to frown upon explicitly Nordicist points of view. I've seen moderators there threaten to ban commenters for challenging collective white pride and identity by advocating for evil, evil philosophies such as Nordic superiority over Eastern and Southern Europeans. I suppose in some ways this is rather heartening in the sense that while only some decades ago white Europeans seemed hell-bent on killing each other and trying to wipe one another off of the face of planet Earth, today's neo-Nazis seem to have relatively little in common with the actual Nazis of yore and instead preach worldwide white harmony.

    Since you bring up the highly salient concept of differing levels of concentric loyalties, I suppose if American white nationalists ever got the all-white ethnostate they're always going on endlessly about, maybe some of those old intra-white animosities would resurface again all of a sudden...

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