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 All Comments / On "Arab Spring"
    Arab Spring was always a misleading phrase, suggesting that what we were seeing was a peaceful transition from authoritarianism to democracy similar to that from communism in Eastern Europe. The misnomer implied an over-simplified view of the political ingredients that produced the protests and uprisings of 2011 and over-optimistic expectations about their outcome. Five years...
  • @Rehmat
    How could you miss the obvious: Cockburn's victims are usually victims of USrael fascism.

    Whosoever, recommend or believe Wickipedia, founded by an Israeli army Colonel - must be a rat under water.

    I try as well as I can to reply here. Right now, to sleep, perchance to dream.

    Regards Rehmat, but you do spout an aweful load of bullshit.

    Sure that you are nnt a specimen of Hazbara?

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  • I was sceptical from an early stage about the Arab Spring uprisings leading to the replacement of authoritarian regimes by secular democracies. Optimistic forecasts I was hearing in the first heady months of 2011 sounded suspiciously similar to what I had heard in Kabul after the fall of the Taliban in 2001 and in Baghdad...
  • @Zach
    I was hoping that Cockburn was writing about the news story detailing Hillary
    Clinton's support of French imperialism in Libya. A story that Lew Rockwell linked to.
    http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2016/01/06/new-hillary-emails-reveal-true-motive-for-libya-intervention/

    Apparently, as revealed in Hillary's recently released emails
    "French President Nicholas Sarkozy (led) the attack on Libya with five specific purposes in mind: to obtain Libyan oil, ensure French influence in the region, increase Sarkozy’s reputation domestically, assert French military power, and to prevent Gaddafi’s influence in what is considered “Francophone Africa.” "

    There was also the fear that Gaddafi was going to use gold as the basis for the Libyan currency rather than the dollar or the Euro.

    There’s remarkably little commentary on the series of failures of the visibly physically rotting Clinton.

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  • @Marcus
    The Qaddafi gov was as repressive as Saddam's Iraq, North Korea, etc. banning most media and forcing everyone to read his shitty writings, all the while his kids vacationed in Europe and elsewhere. That said, it was definitely wrong to get involved in their civil war, which was none of our business and has thrust the country into bloody anarchy and opened the door for thousands of invaders to try to reach Europe.

    You are just one more piece of neocon shite.
    Saddam’s Iraq was the most educated in the Arab world.

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  • @Rehmat
    Did you got that comparison at Daniel Pipes website?

    Qaddafi's rule was peanuts as compared to Netanyahu or N. Korean repression.

    Qaddafi during his three decade rule turned Libya Africa's most liberal, socialist and the richest nation. Contrary to Israel is a parasite entity, and N. Korean are living hand to mouth.

    Qaddafi was murdered and country destroyed because both became threat to Israel and the IMF.

    French Jewish journalist and political activist, Bernard-Henri Levy, was the driving force behind the former French half-Jewish President Nicolas Sarkozy’s war on Libya to remove Qaddafi from power. Last November, speaking at the first national convention in Paris, organized by the French Israel Lobby, the Council of Jewish Organization of France, Levy boasted that he lead the anti-Qaddafi campain because it was a Jewish thing to do.

    “What I have done all these months, I did as a Jew. And like all the Jews of the world, I was worried. Despite legitimate anxiety is an uprising to be welcomed with favor, we were dealing with one of the worst enemy of Israel,” said Levy

    https://rehmat1.com/2012/09/18/bernard-levy-qaddafi-was-an-enemy-of-israel/

    The Qaddafi gov was as repressive as Saddam’s Iraq, North Korea, etc. banning most media and forcing everyone to read his shitty writings, all the while his kids vacationed in Europe and elsewhere. That said, it was definitely wrong to get involved in their civil war, which was none of our business and has thrust the country into bloody anarchy and opened the door for thousands of invaders to try to reach Europe.

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    • Replies: @Bill Jones
    You are just one more piece of neocon shite.
    Saddam's Iraq was the most educated in the Arab world.
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  • @Marcus
    The Qaddafi regime could reasonably be compared to North Korea in terms of repression. But it was none of our (our the EU's) business to topple it, now pandora's box is open.

    Did you got that comparison at Daniel Pipes website?

    Qaddafi’s rule was peanuts as compared to Netanyahu or N. Korean repression.

    Qaddafi during his three decade rule turned Libya Africa’s most liberal, socialist and the richest nation. Contrary to Israel is a parasite entity, and N. Korean are living hand to mouth.

    Qaddafi was murdered and country destroyed because both became threat to Israel and the IMF.

    French Jewish journalist and political activist, Bernard-Henri Levy, was the driving force behind the former French half-Jewish President Nicolas Sarkozy’s war on Libya to remove Qaddafi from power. Last November, speaking at the first national convention in Paris, organized by the French Israel Lobby, the Council of Jewish Organization of France, Levy boasted that he lead the anti-Qaddafi campain because it was a Jewish thing to do.

    “What I have done all these months, I did as a Jew. And like all the Jews of the world, I was worried. Despite legitimate anxiety is an uprising to be welcomed with favor, we were dealing with one of the worst enemy of Israel,” said Levy

    https://rehmat1.com/2012/09/18/bernard-levy-qaddafi-was-an-enemy-of-israel/

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    • Replies: @Marcus
    The Qaddafi gov was as repressive as Saddam's Iraq, North Korea, etc. banning most media and forcing everyone to read his shitty writings, all the while his kids vacationed in Europe and elsewhere. That said, it was definitely wrong to get involved in their civil war, which was none of our business and has thrust the country into bloody anarchy and opened the door for thousands of invaders to try to reach Europe.
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  • The Qaddafi regime could reasonably be compared to North Korea in terms of repression. But it was none of our (our the EU’s) business to topple it, now pandora’s box is open.

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    • Replies: @Rehmat
    Did you got that comparison at Daniel Pipes website?

    Qaddafi's rule was peanuts as compared to Netanyahu or N. Korean repression.

    Qaddafi during his three decade rule turned Libya Africa's most liberal, socialist and the richest nation. Contrary to Israel is a parasite entity, and N. Korean are living hand to mouth.

    Qaddafi was murdered and country destroyed because both became threat to Israel and the IMF.

    French Jewish journalist and political activist, Bernard-Henri Levy, was the driving force behind the former French half-Jewish President Nicolas Sarkozy’s war on Libya to remove Qaddafi from power. Last November, speaking at the first national convention in Paris, organized by the French Israel Lobby, the Council of Jewish Organization of France, Levy boasted that he lead the anti-Qaddafi campain because it was a Jewish thing to do.

    “What I have done all these months, I did as a Jew. And like all the Jews of the world, I was worried. Despite legitimate anxiety is an uprising to be welcomed with favor, we were dealing with one of the worst enemy of Israel,” said Levy

    https://rehmat1.com/2012/09/18/bernard-levy-qaddafi-was-an-enemy-of-israel/
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  • I remember a fellow journalist upbraiding me politely in 2011 for stressing the failings of the Libyan rebels, saying: “Let’s remember who are the good guys.”

    Modern mainstream “journalism” in the US sphere summed up, right there.

    Small wonder the likes of the US and UK regimes find it so much easier to manufacture consent for their interventionist policies than they ought.

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  • I was hoping that Cockburn was writing about the news story detailing Hillary
    Clinton’s support of French imperialism in Libya. A story that Lew Rockwell linked to.

    http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2016/01/06/new-hillary-emails-reveal-true-motive-for-libya-intervention/

    Apparently, as revealed in Hillary’s recently released emails
    “French President Nicholas Sarkozy (led) the attack on Libya with five specific purposes in mind: to obtain Libyan oil, ensure French influence in the region, increase Sarkozy’s reputation domestically, assert French military power, and to prevent Gaddafi’s influence in what is considered “Francophone Africa.” ”

    There was also the fear that Gaddafi was going to use gold as the basis for the Libyan currency rather than the dollar or the Euro.

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    • Replies: @Bill Jones
    There's remarkably little commentary on the series of failures of the visibly physically rotting Clinton.
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  • Arab Spring was always a misleading phrase, suggesting that what we were seeing was a peaceful transition from authoritarianism to democracy similar to that from communism in Eastern Europe. The misnomer implied an over-simplified view of the political ingredients that produced the protests and uprisings of 2011 and over-optimistic expectations about their outcome. Five years...
  • @geokat62

    I have a simple test in determining who is a fool. If someone’s action, no matter how stupid it looks to us, benefits that someone, than he is not a fool. If on the other hand an action harms the originator than he is a fool. I do not see any harm coming to the US from all the mayhem in the Middle East.
     
    I like your test, but I disagree with your assertion that the US has not suffered any harm from all the mayhem in the Middle East. Case in point? I believe it was general Patreaus, himself, who testified before the Senate Armed Services Committee that:

    the enduring hostilities between Israel and some of its neighbors present distinct challenges to advance our interest in the AOR (Area of Responsibility). Israeli-Palestinian tensions often flare into violence and large scale armed confrontations. The conflict foments anti-American sentiment, due to a perception of U.S. favoritism for Israel. Arab anger over the Palestinian question limits the strength and depth of U.S. partnerships with governments and peoples in the AOR and weakens the legitimacy of moderate regimes in the Arab world. Meanwhile Al-Qaeda and other militant groups exploit that anger to mobilize support. The conflict also gives Iran influence in the Arab world through its clients, Lebanese Hizbollah and Hamas.

    Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/229502/petraeuss-israel-problem-andrew-c-mccarthy
     
    That said, I think your test indeed applies perfectly well to the Zionist project. They are the prime beneficiaries of all the mayhem in the ME, at the US taxpayers' expense and in all the lives lost. I also think that Mearsheimer and Walt did an excellent job in documenting the harm the special relationship has done to American interests.

    geokat62, I disagree with Obama and Sanders the US has any claims, rights or credible reasons to be a player in the ME. ISIS is just the latest excuse to wade into that region and lay claims- I have yet to hear a convincing rationale for declaring ISIS a US enemy and for boots on the ground or covert sandals to defeat any sect or tribe in the ME. Further, Israel and the Saudis should be cut off rather than supported by the US, or sold US arms. Do you disagree, and if so why? Please if possible include cites and links for support. I’m hoping to learn more.

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  • Rehmat, do you have evidence that Sanger was a colonel in the Israeli army? I am sure that Whales was not.

    You did not even bother addressing my original question, ‘Do you have any reason to call Cockbourne hasbara’, but just spout a pile of bullshit

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  • I don’t know, I dislike the Wikipedia for various reasons, but Rehmat’s assertion that it was founded by an Israel army colonel, unless Sanger was, for sure Whales never was, and I don’t think Sanger ever was.

    I tried to reply to Rehmat’s nonsensical post, but the current browser does not work well with many sites, must start using Firefox from my ‘smart’ phone.

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  • @orly
    how many coups per decade are allowed to be classified as "stable democracy"

    I had to look it up but Wikipaedia states the last coup was in 1980 which would verify my claim that ‘ Turkey had been a stable democracy for decades’ . Not much by American or British standards but about as it good as it gets in that part of the world though I am concerned at the direction Erdogan is taking that country.

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  • The result we see is the result that was wanted, in the main. It is in the s0-called national interest of the United States to have a destabilized Middle East.

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  • @unit472
    OTOH Turkey had been a stable democracy for decades but, under Erdogan, is slipping towards dictatorship. It maybe that a recrudescent Islam has made any sort of secular democratic rule impossible. While General al Sisi's regime was 'elected' it relied on the Army and al Sisi's own impeccable Islamic credentials to topple Morsi's Muslim Brotherhood and his regime maybe the best we can hope for in the region.

    Even if Islam wasn't a factor, outside of Turkey, the lack of any real industrial economy in Muslim nations combined with high birthrates, have created a large population of young men with almost no chance of finding well compensated employment outside of government. This creates a situation where holding political power has as much to do with one's economic success as any political arrangements. With the military and the mosque being the only institutions with the power to create or topple governments democratic rule is largely meaningless.

    how many coups per decade are allowed to be classified as “stable democracy”

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    • Replies: @unit472
    I had to look it up but Wikipaedia states the last coup was in 1980 which would verify my claim that ' Turkey had been a stable democracy for decades' . Not much by American or British standards but about as it good as it gets in that part of the world though I am concerned at the direction Erdogan is taking that country.
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  • @Regnum Nostrum
    Fed is a very young institution and the problems you are blaming them for have been around as long as mankind. In other words Fed is not at the heart of the problem. At heart of the problem are human deficiencies like greed and lust for power in those who oppress, cowardice, lack of compassion, conformity and duplicity in the oppressed and religious delusions in all.

    Fed is a very young institution and the problems you are blaming them for have been around as long as mankind.

    true, but those problems were more equally distributed in the past. The sea change in 1913 was when a handful of the world’s greediest men were handed the keys to the United States Treasury. It gave them the ability to wreak havoc with America’s and then the world’s economies. By expanding and then treacherously and calculatingly contracting the money supply, they were/are able to destroy fortunes and entire economies, and then buy up the assets at pennies on the dollar. Making Rothschild and his minions stratospherically wealthy, and hence powerful, and thereby able to buy up all the media and all the institutions of consequence and then put them all to work to hide what they’re doing. All the while with dancing puppets at the ends of their strings waging wars and destroying countries all intended to make them even richer and as always, more powerful.

    You’re right about human nature, but so was that person who said power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Orwell understood it too. All too well.

    Human nature is human nature, and there’s not much we can do about that except listen to our better angels as individuals. But we must take away the power to create trillions of dollars from a small cabal of men who will always use that power to engorge on the planet and its people to get even more power, because the end game to this particular charade in human tragedies will not be pretty, that much I can assure you.

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  • @anon
    All because of the evil$cum imperialists. The blood of millions are on them, and all who support them (yes, all those adoring faces at trump, hillary, etc., meetings).

    Their just comeuppance will be so horrifying... unimaginably so.

    anon, maybe your comment is irony, but if not, you are a world burner. Joe Webb

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  • @Rurik

    Is Israel responsible for all that? Even if there was some truth in your blame why not blame the corrupted.
     
    oh I do blame the corrupted, wholeheartedly. Absolutely and you're right, they are far more rotten than the corruptors to be sure.

    But at the heart of the problem is the fraud that is the Fed that gives a small group of men unlimited power to corrupt the all too easily corrupted. And since they're so easitly corrupted, it means wars and atrocities and human suffering on unimaginable scales. And even tho humans are flawed, I feel that when a few of them wield near total power over the masses, like Caligula's reign for instance, or the suffering in Gaza or Syria or Libya, and indeed so many other places where the suffering is contrived for the amusement and profits of a few, that these are some of the darkest chapters in human history. And it doesn't have to be like that if we humans could muster our better angels and kill the Fed. And free humanity from the caprice and absolute power of the absolutely corrupted. That's all. ; )

    Fed is a very young institution and the problems you are blaming them for have been around as long as mankind. In other words Fed is not at the heart of the problem. At heart of the problem are human deficiencies like greed and lust for power in those who oppress, cowardice, lack of compassion, conformity and duplicity in the oppressed and religious delusions in all.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rurik

    Fed is a very young institution and the problems you are blaming them for have been around as long as mankind.
     
    true, but those problems were more equally distributed in the past. The sea change in 1913 was when a handful of the world's greediest men were handed the keys to the United States Treasury. It gave them the ability to wreak havoc with America's and then the world's economies. By expanding and then treacherously and calculatingly contracting the money supply, they were/are able to destroy fortunes and entire economies, and then buy up the assets at pennies on the dollar. Making Rothschild and his minions stratospherically wealthy, and hence powerful, and thereby able to buy up all the media and all the institutions of consequence and then put them all to work to hide what they're doing. All the while with dancing puppets at the ends of their strings waging wars and destroying countries all intended to make them even richer and as always, more powerful.

    You're right about human nature, but so was that person who said power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Orwell understood it too. All too well.

    Human nature is human nature, and there's not much we can do about that except listen to our better angels as individuals. But we must take away the power to create trillions of dollars from a small cabal of men who will always use that power to engorge on the planet and its people to get even more power, because the end game to this particular charade in human tragedies will not be pretty, that much I can assure you.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Anon
    "unacceptable anti-Asian line"

    WHY is it "unacceptable" for a white person to not desire Asian immigration?

    "quite high support for immigration".

    I seriously doubt that. More likely political correctness, cultural Marxism, fear of being called a "bigot" (our era's hysteria) and a collective agreed upon silence by the major parties, media and academia make it difficult if not impossible to speak out against the displacement.

    I wonder if you are not generalising from American or European experience. I might well share your views about the immigration that the US and Europe have had inflicted on them partly by PC and by interest in cheap labor.

    I should have said “crude and ill-informed” perhaps instead of “unacceptable” which smacks prudishness. Pauline Hansen did find quite a lot of acceptance – even being elected as an independant at the election for which she lost her Liberal Party endorsement.

    The only plausible labor backed case against immigration has been some selective complaints about the overuse of the 457 [number is from memory] visa to bring in skilled workers when Australians are unavailable. I don’t think those visas lead to permanent residence.

    Generally the large scale Chinese investment in real estate has caused some grumbling about raising the price to new home owners but that seems to be generally understood to be overstated because it is hard for foreigners to buy existing houses and apartments, so the invest in new ones.

    As the numbers of Asians are distributed well beyond the ethnic Chinese in Australia’s immigration intake and they are not cheap labor or in large numbers there is no reason for native white Australians to fear “displacement”. There is simply nothing equivalent to the 13 per cent of relatively poor and uneducated Latinos (?plus illegals) – and no pre-existing complication from a similar proportion of descendants of black slaves. So Australia has had a good experience of post WW2 immigration, most not from the British Isles, which has led to more than a trebling of the population in less than 70 years.

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  • Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Wizard of Oz
    Thanks for a serious response. I am not quite sure what to make of your generalisations about elites. Working backwards from your conclusions I think one has to find people at the apex of one or more pyramids who have created conditions in which disgruntled young educated people end up doing things like flying planes into NYC and DC buildings or shooting up pop concerts. I can see a bit of the explanation in the elite Saudi Royal family being resented but too tightly in control to be attacked. I don't see the elite intelligentsia fiiting your description. The Wall Street elites which contributed so much to the 2008 et seq disaster have largely kept America's multi ethnic middle and working classes from improving their economic welfare to any great extent over the last 30 years but don't seem to have done much to provoke violence amongst the young and educated if the ephemeral efforts of the Occupy Wall Street protestors are anything to go by.

    BTW I am not sure that you were right to include Australia amd New Zealand in the group of countries where you see people pushed into a corner with a consequential in ethnocentrism and racism. It is true that in the late 90s a disendorsed Liberal (very roughly = UK Conservative) candidate pursued her unacceptable anti-Asian line and even started a party in Queensland (our deep North) which got a few members elected to the Queensland state parliament before falling apart. But prosperity (no recession for 25 years) and the relative quality of immigrants from China, SE Asia and India (and the Chinese money in real estate) has contributed to quite high support for immigration.

    “unacceptable anti-Asian line”

    WHY is it “unacceptable” for a white person to not desire Asian immigration?

    “quite high support for immigration”.

    I seriously doubt that. More likely political correctness, cultural Marxism, fear of being called a “bigot” (our era’s hysteria) and a collective agreed upon silence by the major parties, media and academia make it difficult if not impossible to speak out against the displacement.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    I wonder if you are not generalising from American or European experience. I might well share your views about the immigration that the US and Europe have had inflicted on them partly by PC and by interest in cheap labor.

    I should have said "crude and ill-informed" perhaps instead of "unacceptable" which smacks prudishness. Pauline Hansen did find quite a lot of acceptance - even being elected as an independant at the election for which she lost her Liberal Party endorsement.

    The only plausible labor backed case against immigration has been some selective complaints about the overuse of the 457 [number is from memory] visa to bring in skilled workers when Australians are unavailable. I don't think those visas lead to permanent residence.

    Generally the large scale Chinese investment in real estate has caused some grumbling about raising the price to new home owners but that seems to be generally understood to be overstated because it is hard for foreigners to buy existing houses and apartments, so the invest in new ones.

    As the numbers of Asians are distributed well beyond the ethnic Chinese in Australia's immigration intake and they are not cheap labor or in large numbers there is no reason for native white Australians to fear "displacement". There is simply nothing equivalent to the 13 per cent of relatively poor and uneducated Latinos (?plus illegals) - and no pre-existing complication from a similar proportion of descendants of black slaves. So Australia has had a good experience of post WW2 immigration, most not from the British Isles, which has led to more than a trebling of the population in less than 70 years.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @unit472
    OTOH Turkey had been a stable democracy for decades but, under Erdogan, is slipping towards dictatorship. It maybe that a recrudescent Islam has made any sort of secular democratic rule impossible. While General al Sisi's regime was 'elected' it relied on the Army and al Sisi's own impeccable Islamic credentials to topple Morsi's Muslim Brotherhood and his regime maybe the best we can hope for in the region.

    Even if Islam wasn't a factor, outside of Turkey, the lack of any real industrial economy in Muslim nations combined with high birthrates, have created a large population of young men with almost no chance of finding well compensated employment outside of government. This creates a situation where holding political power has as much to do with one's economic success as any political arrangements. With the military and the mosque being the only institutions with the power to create or topple governments democratic rule is largely meaningless.

    Stable democracy?
    Turkey?

    Have a listen to the great Sibel Edmonds. Here:

    https://www.corbettreport.com/interview-1120-sibel-edmonds-explains-the-erdogan-takedown/

    The Erdogan replacement lives five miles down the road from me. The local Gulen is not the usually nationally reported one.

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  • @Regnum Nostrum
    The Fed has nothing to do with it. Israel has nothing to do with it. All the problems all the time have one single cause. Humans and their inability to change. The whole of human history is a catalogue of wholesale murder committed for all kinds of reasons. Territorial, religious, economic, racist, etc. I once saw a movie in which a couple of children ask an old man why there is war. He answers the war is because there are people. Is Israel responsible for all that? Even if there was some truth in your blame why not blame the corrupted. If I offer you a bribe and you accept it is it 100% my fault? Who is worse?

    Is Israel responsible for all that? Even if there was some truth in your blame why not blame the corrupted.

    oh I do blame the corrupted, wholeheartedly. Absolutely and you’re right, they are far more rotten than the corruptors to be sure.

    But at the heart of the problem is the fraud that is the Fed that gives a small group of men unlimited power to corrupt the all too easily corrupted. And since they’re so easitly corrupted, it means wars and atrocities and human suffering on unimaginable scales. And even tho humans are flawed, I feel that when a few of them wield near total power over the masses, like Caligula’s reign for instance, or the suffering in Gaza or Syria or Libya, and indeed so many other places where the suffering is contrived for the amusement and profits of a few, that these are some of the darkest chapters in human history. And it doesn’t have to be like that if we humans could muster our better angels and kill the Fed. And free humanity from the caprice and absolute power of the absolutely corrupted. That’s all. ; )

    Read More
    • Replies: @Regnum Nostrum
    Fed is a very young institution and the problems you are blaming them for have been around as long as mankind. In other words Fed is not at the heart of the problem. At heart of the problem are human deficiencies like greed and lust for power in those who oppress, cowardice, lack of compassion, conformity and duplicity in the oppressed and religious delusions in all.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Curious? Hopeful? When Tunisia was having it’s “Arab Spring” yes, I was a little curious because I didn’t know a darn thing about the political situation in Tunisia. It went south pretty quickly –now one never hears a thing about Tunisia. Once Egypt was affected with the Muslim Brotherhood getting an itch for actual power and the fall of Hosni Mubarak, I knew that it was covert American action in play. Yes the Arab Spring quickly went backwards into an Arab Winter –.

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  • I find it amazing that anyone could pretend to be stupid enough to imagine that the destruction of Iraq – after it had expelled the Amerikastani occupation in 2011 – and the destruction of Syria, the zionazi pseudostate’s only remaining opponent, was *not* what was intended by Warshington.

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  • All because of the evil$cum imperialists. The blood of millions are on them, and all who support them (yes, all those adoring faces at trump, hillary, etc., meetings).

    Their just comeuppance will be so horrifying… unimaginably so.

    Read More
    • Replies: @joe webb
    anon, maybe your comment is irony, but if not, you are a world burner. Joe Webb
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  • The common element in all these items? The people of the narrative? Muslims. Low IQ, violent, psychopathic, ignorant, violent, raping, violent, did I mention violent? Ah yes, I suppose I did. Worst of all, their religious comic-book-of-choice is the Koran. Lovely, just lovely. But don’t blame the savages, blame the victims and managers of the savages, that’s the liberal way. But that’s the wrong way. Deal with savages the way we dealt with Japan, with Germany. Problem solved, but we don’t solve problems anymore, not like we used to.

    Everything that has happened is the world attempting to deal with and manage the ignorant, low-IQ, violent and worthless savages. Don’t blame Truman-Obama. They have all attempted to deal, simply, with ignorant savages sitting on a resource the civilized world must have. The mistake that has been made is allowing these savages a say in anything. That’s all, that’s it, I’m right, you’re wrong if you see it any other way..

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  • @AmericanaCON
    The Conservative Revolutionary Movement of the 1920-1930 was driven by ideology rather than social necessity. They recruited from the upper strata in society and often people who had not been hurt by the post-war poverty. This made them different from the NSDAP which was created as a mass-movement rather than a movement for elites. When NSDAP came to power in 1933 they dissolved the Conservative Revolutionary Movement. ISIS works as the Conservative Revolutionary Movement and is heavily depended on young educated Muslims willing to die for a higher cause. This makes ISIS different from Hamas which works as a mass-movement. As ISIS offers little for the poor they have also little support among the general population. Hamas have massive support among Palestinians because they work with charities to those in need. From a policy perspective I think the West is between the rock and a hard place on ISIS.

    The ideology of Hamas is simple. It is an ideology based on something very substantial. It is a reaction of Western intervention in the region. If Israel was dissolved and the Western world took a step back organizations like Hamas would not follow us over the Mediterranean. This goes for most of the Muslim terrorist organizations around the world. They just want us out from their lands. However, ISIS is something different. They strive to re-conquer all land once held by Muslims which would include the entire Balkans and Spain but also Central Asia, Southern Asia and a significant part of Africa. We cannot destroy ISIS with conventional methods because their ideology is imbedded religious, cultural, ethnic and social identity of Muslims. If we get rid of ISIS there will come a new group with similar believes. This is really nothing strange. All peoples tend to have extreme tendencies. Racialist supremacism is very much embedded in the German identity.

    The winning side of WW2 thought that when they got rid of Nazism they got rid of German racialist supremacism. Of course they didn’t. It has just been suppressed for 70 years. It is about to stir up in Germany as more and more Germans feel their identity is under threat by third world massive immigration. The Nordic people tend to have tendency for isolationism just like the English tend to have tendency for expansionism. The problem with the liberal post-civilization we live in is that we don’t acknowledge the differences between people and work to retain our urges for extremism through good governance and sound political decisions. Our elites in all civilizations constantly make decisions which push people into a corner and reawake their aggressive primordial behavior. It is so sad.

    Thanks for a serious response. I am not quite sure what to make of your generalisations about elites. Working backwards from your conclusions I think one has to find people at the apex of one or more pyramids who have created conditions in which disgruntled young educated people end up doing things like flying planes into NYC and DC buildings or shooting up pop concerts. I can see a bit of the explanation in the elite Saudi Royal family being resented but too tightly in control to be attacked. I don’t see the elite intelligentsia fiiting your description. The Wall Street elites which contributed so much to the 2008 et seq disaster have largely kept America’s multi ethnic middle and working classes from improving their economic welfare to any great extent over the last 30 years but don’t seem to have done much to provoke violence amongst the young and educated if the ephemeral efforts of the Occupy Wall Street protestors are anything to go by.

    BTW I am not sure that you were right to include Australia amd New Zealand in the group of countries where you see people pushed into a corner with a consequential in ethnocentrism and racism. It is true that in the late 90s a disendorsed Liberal (very roughly = UK Conservative) candidate pursued her unacceptable anti-Asian line and even started a party in Queensland (our deep North) which got a few members elected to the Queensland state parliament before falling apart. But prosperity (no recession for 25 years) and the relative quality of immigrants from China, SE Asia and India (and the Chinese money in real estate) has contributed to quite high support for immigration.

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    • Replies: @Anon
    "unacceptable anti-Asian line"

    WHY is it "unacceptable" for a white person to not desire Asian immigration?

    "quite high support for immigration".

    I seriously doubt that. More likely political correctness, cultural Marxism, fear of being called a "bigot" (our era's hysteria) and a collective agreed upon silence by the major parties, media and academia make it difficult if not impossible to speak out against the displacement.
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  • @geokat62

    n’est-ce pas?
     
    c'est.

    Touché? Ou d’accord?

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  • AmericanaCON [AKA "BernieBarker"] says:
    @Wizard of Oz
    I'm sorry to use your comment for something oblique or peripheral but I was struggling to remember what it was that I meant to throw up for discussion when it hit me while I was reading your comment.

    What makes people commit acts of enmity (violent or otherwise) against their host communities, sometimes their home community? Can one generalise so as to bring the Cambridge 5 within the explanatory web?

    I think the idea of including them in an explanation occurred to me when reading someone's point that most of the terrorists have not been the down trodden or poor but often educated professional or about to be professional people, quite often educated in the West. So, what is it that makes people resent something (or almost everything) about their lives so as to turn them into destroyers of the best of bourgeois civilisation? Clearly in the 30s the idea that the whole of humanity, starting with their compatriots, were going to be lifted under capitalism to much longer healthier lives, more or less free education etc. was not obvious and it could even have been residues of Christian altruism that formed part of the Cambridge Five's psychological formation. No doubt there are elements of Islam which, in a distorted form, turn potential altruism into vengeful destructiveness.????

    The Conservative Revolutionary Movement of the 1920-1930 was driven by ideology rather than social necessity. They recruited from the upper strata in society and often people who had not been hurt by the post-war poverty. This made them different from the NSDAP which was created as a mass-movement rather than a movement for elites. When NSDAP came to power in 1933 they dissolved the Conservative Revolutionary Movement. ISIS works as the Conservative Revolutionary Movement and is heavily depended on young educated Muslims willing to die for a higher cause. This makes ISIS different from Hamas which works as a mass-movement. As ISIS offers little for the poor they have also little support among the general population. Hamas have massive support among Palestinians because they work with charities to those in need. From a policy perspective I think the West is between the rock and a hard place on ISIS.

    The ideology of Hamas is simple. It is an ideology based on something very substantial. It is a reaction of Western intervention in the region. If Israel was dissolved and the Western world took a step back organizations like Hamas would not follow us over the Mediterranean. This goes for most of the Muslim terrorist organizations around the world. They just want us out from their lands. However, ISIS is something different. They strive to re-conquer all land once held by Muslims which would include the entire Balkans and Spain but also Central Asia, Southern Asia and a significant part of Africa. We cannot destroy ISIS with conventional methods because their ideology is imbedded religious, cultural, ethnic and social identity of Muslims. If we get rid of ISIS there will come a new group with similar believes. This is really nothing strange. All peoples tend to have extreme tendencies. Racialist supremacism is very much embedded in the German identity.

    The winning side of WW2 thought that when they got rid of Nazism they got rid of German racialist supremacism. Of course they didn’t. It has just been suppressed for 70 years. It is about to stir up in Germany as more and more Germans feel their identity is under threat by third world massive immigration. The Nordic people tend to have tendency for isolationism just like the English tend to have tendency for expansionism. The problem with the liberal post-civilization we live in is that we don’t acknowledge the differences between people and work to retain our urges for extremism through good governance and sound political decisions. Our elites in all civilizations constantly make decisions which push people into a corner and reawake their aggressive primordial behavior. It is so sad.

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    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    Thanks for a serious response. I am not quite sure what to make of your generalisations about elites. Working backwards from your conclusions I think one has to find people at the apex of one or more pyramids who have created conditions in which disgruntled young educated people end up doing things like flying planes into NYC and DC buildings or shooting up pop concerts. I can see a bit of the explanation in the elite Saudi Royal family being resented but too tightly in control to be attacked. I don't see the elite intelligentsia fiiting your description. The Wall Street elites which contributed so much to the 2008 et seq disaster have largely kept America's multi ethnic middle and working classes from improving their economic welfare to any great extent over the last 30 years but don't seem to have done much to provoke violence amongst the young and educated if the ephemeral efforts of the Occupy Wall Street protestors are anything to go by.

    BTW I am not sure that you were right to include Australia amd New Zealand in the group of countries where you see people pushed into a corner with a consequential in ethnocentrism and racism. It is true that in the late 90s a disendorsed Liberal (very roughly = UK Conservative) candidate pursued her unacceptable anti-Asian line and even started a party in Queensland (our deep North) which got a few members elected to the Queensland state parliament before falling apart. But prosperity (no recession for 25 years) and the relative quality of immigrants from China, SE Asia and India (and the Chinese money in real estate) has contributed to quite high support for immigration.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Wizard of Oz
    I am happy to be subject to language policing in what some of my more polemical partisan friends call the Nanny state but excuse myself this time by reference to the unbowdlerised word having been used by the person to whom I was replying. If I had, accordingly, used quotation marks - or even the more pointed "sic" - it might have looked a trifle precious, n'est-ce pas?

    n’est-ce pas?

    c’est.

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    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    Touché? Ou d'accord?
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Bill Jones
    Yup, it tells us that the West should stop fucking around in their countries.

    Care to name two that haven't been fucked over by the colonial powers in the pasr 100 years or so?

    I wrote there has never been a single Arab democracy or free state in all of history. I guess for you history is only the last 100 years. Where was the Arab Magna Carta for example?

    Btw, Arabs have been F******* around in western countries for centuries. Spain & Portugal was conquered and enslaved by them for 700 years. Perhaps as many as 2,000,000 Europeans were enslaved by the Barbary pirates.

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  • @Kyle a
    Ask the Hebrews

    Mosad’s fingerprints are all over this.

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  • I am happy to be subject to language policing in what some of my more polemical partisan friends call the Nanny state but excuse myself this time by reference to the unbowdlerised word having been used by the person to whom I was replying. If I had, accordingly, used quotation marks – or even the more pointed “sic” – it might have looked a trifle precious, n’est-ce pas?

    Read More
    • Agree: geokat62
    • Replies: @geokat62

    n’est-ce pas?
     
    c'est.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • so per a good chunk of the comments here, the Arab Spring morphed to winter real quick cuz of the Jews, jews, jews. couple years ago I predicted it would do what it did. Why? cuz I know what IQ means.

    You guys are pretty nutty. The Arabs are so stupid and violent that jews or not, Americans or not, it is just Arabness, Orientalism, Blackness like our negroes.

    Same IQ of Arabs and US Blacks: 85. Black chaos, Arab chaos…all genetic.

    You guys are still liberals (i.e. those who think it is all Cultural). It is not. It is 90% IQ, and 10 % temperment. I have known quite a few Arabs and a couple Persians. Then there is Rehmet, the Robot.
    Joe Webb

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  • What went so disastrously wrong?

    They’re Arabs. What more do you need to know?

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  • @Wizard of Oz
    Wouldn't it be a good idea to make distinctions between colonialism (planting of colonies of the outsiders) and imperialism? The Indian Empire was never a colony. Only in the loosest sense could one refer to the English/British colonies there (typically perhaps in hill stations where English customs were preserved for those seeking refuge from the heat of the dry season). India, if one was brutally frank, has been most fucked up by modern Western medicine, hygiene and whatever else has contributed to its population soaring ahead of its coping mechanisms. Same one might say of Africa. But, those unacceptable thoughts aside, India has probably survived very well on its native talent, despite the inbuilt disadvantages of caste and doses of socialism brought back from English education in the 20s and 30s, picking up what it got from the most modern humane empire there had ever been - which isn't saying much but is I suggest reality and dependent of course on the UK having got itself well up Maslow's hierarchy of needs thanks to leading the Industrial Revolution and therefore post Malthusian prosperity.

    India, if one was brutally frank, has been most f*cked up by…

    Woah, Wiz. I had to reread that sentence a few times to make sure I didn’t misread it.

    Nice to see you let your hair down a bit… but try not making a habit of it, or I’ll have to rechristen you the Wizard of Expletives, or WoE.

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  • @Bill Jones
    Yup, it tells us that the West should stop fucking around in their countries.

    Care to name two that haven't been fucked over by the colonial powers in the pasr 100 years or so?

    Wouldn’t it be a good idea to make distinctions between colonialism (planting of colonies of the outsiders) and imperialism? The Indian Empire was never a colony. Only in the loosest sense could one refer to the English/British colonies there (typically perhaps in hill stations where English customs were preserved for those seeking refuge from the heat of the dry season). India, if one was brutally frank, has been most fucked up by modern Western medicine, hygiene and whatever else has contributed to its population soaring ahead of its coping mechanisms. Same one might say of Africa. But, those unacceptable thoughts aside, India has probably survived very well on its native talent, despite the inbuilt disadvantages of caste and doses of socialism brought back from English education in the 20s and 30s, picking up what it got from the most modern humane empire there had ever been – which isn’t saying much but is I suggest reality and dependent of course on the UK having got itself well up Maslow’s hierarchy of needs thanks to leading the Industrial Revolution and therefore post Malthusian prosperity.

    Read More
    • Replies: @geokat62

    India, if one was brutally frank, has been most f*cked up by...
     
    Woah, Wiz. I had to reread that sentence a few times to make sure I didn't misread it.

    Nice to see you let your hair down a bit... but try not making a habit of it, or I'll have to rechristen you the Wizard of Expletives, or WoE.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @AmericanaCON
    The problem with Rehmat is that his hatred for Jews destroys his sometimes very good points about Israel and Jewish identity politics. You see this Anti-Semitic, Islamophobic, racists (including towards whites), Anti-Christian, Xenophobic madness in all marginalized organizations, groups and networks in all political, ideological and religious stripes. I don’t like to use concepts like “extremism” but it can be applied on certain events through history. Nazi-Germany (1933-1945), Soviet Union (until 1950s) and Khmer Rouge (1975-1979), ISIS (1999-present) all went too far resulting in millions of deaths.

    The reasons why we have these occurring genocides is because of our elites in all civilizations force people into a corner and then breed radicalism. The Western world is going through this right now. Europeans in Europe and the Diaspora in United States, Australia, New Zeeland and South Africa have been pushed into a corner and this is why we see a rise in ethno-nationalism and racism. We can only hope that the reformists are able to replace our current elites and force a change in policy before it boils over into nationalism. What Rehmat (and other Muslims) don’t understand is that white people as they become radicalized will not take lightly on Muslim migrants regardless if they are good or bad. The problem with Muslim organizations like CAIR and Muslims in United States is that they don’t seem to understand the history of their adopted country.

    United States was founded by white Anglo-Protestants. It was founded as white European country which only granted citizenship to whites. Although, United States did grant citizenship to non-whites it was something fairly rare. Immigration was also kept to a minimum until after the civil war. In the 1950 about 90 percent of the population were white (almost exclusively non-Hispanic and a large extent West and Northern European), 75% were Protestants and about 93 percent were Christians. When CAIR argue for open borders, multiculturalism and that United States ought to house their needs the majority of white Americans perceive them as a threat to their identity. CAIR may be legally correct. United States has not been an ethnocracy since 1965 but in the mind of white Americans it is.

    In Europe you see even more hostility towards non-white or/and non-Christian migrants (and minorities) as many European states were born as ethno-states or unions of ethno-states such as United Kingdom. What Rehmat (so common among Muslims) does not realize is the dynamics of ethnic relations. White Christians have in general not a problem with individuals Muslims. However, they do not want to become a minority in what they perceive as their “land”. White Christians show hostility towards Muslims as a group and non as individuals. Hence, whites Christians don’t care if they are law-abiding good citizens. They don’t care if they contribute financially to Western countries.

    Whites perceive them as threat because of what they are not what they do. All ethnic, racial and religious groups tend to act like this. Morally wrong? Well, I personally think so but that is sadly how the cookie crumbles. Rehmat may dislike or even hate Jews but what he should understand that the hatred is probably mutual and he will find very few whites who want to create an alliance with him. The growing nationalism in the West is not caused by Jews but by visible minorities such as Muslims – all of whom are first, second or maybe third generation migrants from third world countries. What Rehmat should spend is time doing is to create understanding among peoples and respect for the differences. He should engage in a dialog and not hate speech against Jews or any other group. The same goes for Christians, Jews, Hindus, Whites, Asian and Blacks. It applies for all people.

    I’m sorry to use your comment for something oblique or peripheral but I was struggling to remember what it was that I meant to throw up for discussion when it hit me while I was reading your comment.

    What makes people commit acts of enmity (violent or otherwise) against their host communities, sometimes their home community? Can one generalise so as to bring the Cambridge 5 within the explanatory web?

    I think the idea of including them in an explanation occurred to me when reading someone’s point that most of the terrorists have not been the down trodden or poor but often educated professional or about to be professional people, quite often educated in the West. So, what is it that makes people resent something (or almost everything) about their lives so as to turn them into destroyers of the best of bourgeois civilisation? Clearly in the 30s the idea that the whole of humanity, starting with their compatriots, were going to be lifted under capitalism to much longer healthier lives, more or less free education etc. was not obvious and it could even have been residues of Christian altruism that formed part of the Cambridge Five’s psychological formation. No doubt there are elements of Islam which, in a distorted form, turn potential altruism into vengeful destructiveness.????

    Read More
    • Replies: @AmericanaCON
    The Conservative Revolutionary Movement of the 1920-1930 was driven by ideology rather than social necessity. They recruited from the upper strata in society and often people who had not been hurt by the post-war poverty. This made them different from the NSDAP which was created as a mass-movement rather than a movement for elites. When NSDAP came to power in 1933 they dissolved the Conservative Revolutionary Movement. ISIS works as the Conservative Revolutionary Movement and is heavily depended on young educated Muslims willing to die for a higher cause. This makes ISIS different from Hamas which works as a mass-movement. As ISIS offers little for the poor they have also little support among the general population. Hamas have massive support among Palestinians because they work with charities to those in need. From a policy perspective I think the West is between the rock and a hard place on ISIS.

    The ideology of Hamas is simple. It is an ideology based on something very substantial. It is a reaction of Western intervention in the region. If Israel was dissolved and the Western world took a step back organizations like Hamas would not follow us over the Mediterranean. This goes for most of the Muslim terrorist organizations around the world. They just want us out from their lands. However, ISIS is something different. They strive to re-conquer all land once held by Muslims which would include the entire Balkans and Spain but also Central Asia, Southern Asia and a significant part of Africa. We cannot destroy ISIS with conventional methods because their ideology is imbedded religious, cultural, ethnic and social identity of Muslims. If we get rid of ISIS there will come a new group with similar believes. This is really nothing strange. All peoples tend to have extreme tendencies. Racialist supremacism is very much embedded in the German identity.

    The winning side of WW2 thought that when they got rid of Nazism they got rid of German racialist supremacism. Of course they didn’t. It has just been suppressed for 70 years. It is about to stir up in Germany as more and more Germans feel their identity is under threat by third world massive immigration. The Nordic people tend to have tendency for isolationism just like the English tend to have tendency for expansionism. The problem with the liberal post-civilization we live in is that we don’t acknowledge the differences between people and work to retain our urges for extremism through good governance and sound political decisions. Our elites in all civilizations constantly make decisions which push people into a corner and reawake their aggressive primordial behavior. It is so sad.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Rehmat
    But OOZ darling, Gen. Moshe Dayan and Gen. Ariel Sharon were atheist like Karl Marx. They all used their Jewish mothers to fool idiots like you. Gen. al-Sisi is also playing the same trick by using his Muslim father to fool Egyptian, while adored by Israeli Jews.

    Gen. Sisi received praise from several Israeli leaders including prime minister Netanyahu. On January 31, 2014, Alex Traiman at JNS quoted former Israeli defense minister Binyamin Ben-Eliezer saying that Israel supported el-Sisi, but “we shouldn’t go out on the roofs and cry out in favor of el-Sisi. But what is going on in Egypt is positive for Israel, and you cannot deny it.”

    “Abdul Fattah El-Sisi is Egypt’s strong man right now and has been fighting against radical Islam and against the Muslim Brothers (members of the Muslim Brotherhood). This is very positive both for Egypt, but also for Israel and the entire Middle East,” said former Israeli Ambassador to Egypt Zvi Mazel.

    Gen. al-Sisi has been depicted as “defender of democracy and secularism” by the Jewish-controlled western mainstream media. Many top pro-Israel American lawmakers including Sen. John McCain, John Kerry, Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton , Henry Kissinger and Madeline Albright have dined with al-Sisi in Cairo.....

    http://rehmat1.com/2014/12/04/egypt-under-military-rule-is-good-for-israel/

    So? I see you can read the words in English but…..

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  • @Anon
    There is not and never has been a free democratic Arab country EVER in all of history. That should tell us something right there.

    Yup, it tells us that the West should stop fucking around in their countries.

    Care to name two that haven’t been fucked over by the colonial powers in the pasr 100 years or so?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    Wouldn't it be a good idea to make distinctions between colonialism (planting of colonies of the outsiders) and imperialism? The Indian Empire was never a colony. Only in the loosest sense could one refer to the English/British colonies there (typically perhaps in hill stations where English customs were preserved for those seeking refuge from the heat of the dry season). India, if one was brutally frank, has been most fucked up by modern Western medicine, hygiene and whatever else has contributed to its population soaring ahead of its coping mechanisms. Same one might say of Africa. But, those unacceptable thoughts aside, India has probably survived very well on its native talent, despite the inbuilt disadvantages of caste and doses of socialism brought back from English education in the 20s and 30s, picking up what it got from the most modern humane empire there had ever been - which isn't saying much but is I suggest reality and dependent of course on the UK having got itself well up Maslow's hierarchy of needs thanks to leading the Industrial Revolution and therefore post Malthusian prosperity.
    , @Anon
    I wrote there has never been a single Arab democracy or free state in all of history. I guess for you history is only the last 100 years. Where was the Arab Magna Carta for example?

    Btw, Arabs have been F******* around in western countries for centuries. Spain & Portugal was conquered and enslaved by them for 700 years. Perhaps as many as 2,000,000 Europeans were enslaved by the Barbary pirates.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Does anybody believe that desolation was not the intended result?

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  • @This Is Our Home

    Gen. al-Sisi has been depicted as “defender of democracy and secularism” by the Jewish-controlled western mainstream media.
     
    Actually I've mostly seen negative reports on him, certainly no defender of democracy labels.

    However he clearly is a defender of secularism, christians and Egyptian natonalism.

    Neyth Moshe – You’re confusing al-Sisi with Barack Obama who is the most hated US president in Israel, even worse than Jimmy Carter.

    In 2009, American Jewish writer and blogger, Max Blumenthal, visited the Zionist entity after Barack Obama’s so-called “historic speech” in Cairo in which he blasted Palestinian groups which carry armed resistance against the Zionist regime. Max was surprised by the Jewish hatred toward Barack Obama. He documented it in a video, Feeling the Hate in Israel, which was later removed from U-Tube and Huffington Post……

    http://rehmat1.com/2013/02/09/israeli-jews-hate-black-people/

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  • AmericanaCON [AKA "BernieBarker"] says:
    @Che Guava
    Rehmat,

    can you give a precise description of why you accuse Mr. Cockburn of 'hasbara'?

    I know what the word means, please give your arguments for how he fits the definition.

    You would likely have more fun on e.g., the Wikipedia, where there are many real hasbara, and they are running it.

    You make the occasional comment which has the point or two that make sense, also, as pointed in my earlier reply to you, spout pure nonsense much of the time.

    The problem with Rehmat is that his hatred for Jews destroys his sometimes very good points about Israel and Jewish identity politics. You see this Anti-Semitic, Islamophobic, racists (including towards whites), Anti-Christian, Xenophobic madness in all marginalized organizations, groups and networks in all political, ideological and religious stripes. I don’t like to use concepts like “extremism” but it can be applied on certain events through history. Nazi-Germany (1933-1945), Soviet Union (until 1950s) and Khmer Rouge (1975-1979), ISIS (1999-present) all went too far resulting in millions of deaths.

    The reasons why we have these occurring genocides is because of our elites in all civilizations force people into a corner and then breed radicalism. The Western world is going through this right now. Europeans in Europe and the Diaspora in United States, Australia, New Zeeland and South Africa have been pushed into a corner and this is why we see a rise in ethno-nationalism and racism. We can only hope that the reformists are able to replace our current elites and force a change in policy before it boils over into nationalism. What Rehmat (and other Muslims) don’t understand is that white people as they become radicalized will not take lightly on Muslim migrants regardless if they are good or bad. The problem with Muslim organizations like CAIR and Muslims in United States is that they don’t seem to understand the history of their adopted country.

    United States was founded by white Anglo-Protestants. It was founded as white European country which only granted citizenship to whites. Although, United States did grant citizenship to non-whites it was something fairly rare. Immigration was also kept to a minimum until after the civil war. In the 1950 about 90 percent of the population were white (almost exclusively non-Hispanic and a large extent West and Northern European), 75% were Protestants and about 93 percent were Christians. When CAIR argue for open borders, multiculturalism and that United States ought to house their needs the majority of white Americans perceive them as a threat to their identity. CAIR may be legally correct. United States has not been an ethnocracy since 1965 but in the mind of white Americans it is.

    In Europe you see even more hostility towards non-white or/and non-Christian migrants (and minorities) as many European states were born as ethno-states or unions of ethno-states such as United Kingdom. What Rehmat (so common among Muslims) does not realize is the dynamics of ethnic relations. White Christians have in general not a problem with individuals Muslims. However, they do not want to become a minority in what they perceive as their “land”. White Christians show hostility towards Muslims as a group and non as individuals. Hence, whites Christians don’t care if they are law-abiding good citizens. They don’t care if they contribute financially to Western countries.

    Whites perceive them as threat because of what they are not what they do. All ethnic, racial and religious groups tend to act like this. Morally wrong? Well, I personally think so but that is sadly how the cookie crumbles. Rehmat may dislike or even hate Jews but what he should understand that the hatred is probably mutual and he will find very few whites who want to create an alliance with him. The growing nationalism in the West is not caused by Jews but by visible minorities such as Muslims – all of whom are first, second or maybe third generation migrants from third world countries. What Rehmat should spend is time doing is to create understanding among peoples and respect for the differences. He should engage in a dialog and not hate speech against Jews or any other group. The same goes for Christians, Jews, Hindus, Whites, Asian and Blacks. It applies for all people.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    I'm sorry to use your comment for something oblique or peripheral but I was struggling to remember what it was that I meant to throw up for discussion when it hit me while I was reading your comment.

    What makes people commit acts of enmity (violent or otherwise) against their host communities, sometimes their home community? Can one generalise so as to bring the Cambridge 5 within the explanatory web?

    I think the idea of including them in an explanation occurred to me when reading someone's point that most of the terrorists have not been the down trodden or poor but often educated professional or about to be professional people, quite often educated in the West. So, what is it that makes people resent something (or almost everything) about their lives so as to turn them into destroyers of the best of bourgeois civilisation? Clearly in the 30s the idea that the whole of humanity, starting with their compatriots, were going to be lifted under capitalism to much longer healthier lives, more or less free education etc. was not obvious and it could even have been residues of Christian altruism that formed part of the Cambridge Five's psychological formation. No doubt there are elements of Islam which, in a distorted form, turn potential altruism into vengeful destructiveness.????
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Avery
    {Let’s be clear: those who launch aggressive wars must be brought to justice, even if they do it while nesting high up in Official Washington.
    Unfortunately, these serial murderers are presently feted as celebrities and treated like heroes. But it’s past time to bring down the evil empire and deliver all mass-murderers to justice. This belated retribution will be a blessing to humanity.}

    Good sentiment: but how to do it ?
    Who is going to do it ?

    War criminal Blair was given the post of Middle East peace envoy (!): no, it's no misprint. The war criminal who co-invaded Iraq with Bush, and caused death and destruction to several hundred thousand Iraqi civilians, was given the cushy post of "peace envoy": what a sick joke.

    War criminal Bush is enjoying a peaceful retirement on his vast ranch, painting, completely oblivious to the death and destruction still going on in Iraq, after he unleashed the demons with his criminal invasion.

    And here is a lovely picture of war criminal Cheney surrounded by family.
    http://www.npr.org/2015/12/03/458361257/dick-cheneys-bust-unveiled-at-the-capitol-as-hes-lightly-roasted
    Melts one's heart.
    Lovely little grandchildren. God bless them. May they live long and happy lives.
    Bet the family applauding the war criminal is oblivious to the fact that the evil man is responsible for the deaths of 10s of 1,000s of Iraqi grandchildren.
    What a sick show.

    So the question remains: how to bring these war criminals to Justice ?
    No international body can do it, because US runs the show and runs the roost.
    The only entity that can do it, is the American people.
    But those who live in US know how disconnected Americans are from these events.
    MSM is careful to hide the war crimes or explain them away.
    And the average Joe and Jane are disinclined to look too deep into the abyss.
    So life goes on here in US, and suffering caused by these monsters goes on far, far away from Middle Street, Anytown, USA.

    Good sentiment: but how to do it ?
    Who is going to do it ?

    Two words: people power.

    Remember the neocons with their colour revolutions? Well, the US is overdue for its own colour revolution. As a tribute to the neocon’s Trotskyist roots, we should dub it the “pink revolution.”

    In that spirit, I invite you to join the Pink Revolution scheduled for the summer of 2020 in DC, A Declaration of Independence from Israel.

    Here are the people who have already expressed their commitment to attend:

    geokat62
    SolontoCroesus
    Alexander
    RobinG

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  • @Mark Green
    America and the 'democratic' West have no right to intervene in the sovereign affairs of foreign states. This arrogant propensity is a huge part of the problem. Let the people of that region determine their own futures. It's not America's business. Our government should tend to the pressing needs of its citizens.

    Ironically, preemptive Zio-American invasions needlessly destroyed two rising, secular Arab countries (Iraq and Libya) that sought no war with America and were no threat to the American people. A vast criminal conspiracy emanating from Washington culminated in the invasion and destruction of those two nations. Since when isn't premeditated mass murder a crime?

    These wars of choice produced immeasurable suffering and wholesale destruction. Yet no one responsible for these wars has ever been brought to justice or so much as rebuked.

    Indeed, these war crimes have never even been addressed or treated as such. At worst, they are referred to as 'blunders' or 'mistakes' in our pro-war, pro-Zionist media. These deeds and this mindset are the hallmark of an evil empire.

    In a just world where the rule of law is paramount, those responsible for these wars of aggression would be brought to justice. But Zio-Washington operates above the law and outside the law.

    In the meantime, Arab political change will happen at its own pace. But let us strive to 'do no further harm'. We have enough of our own problems to deal with. Besides, our armies have slaughtered perhaps as many as one million people since 2003 alone. The wanton killings must stop.

    It is our meddlesome government in Washington that's the world's greatest problem. Naturally, the Israeli factor cannot be ignored either since it's the Israelis and their domestic operatives who shape Washington's barbarous policies throughout the Middle East.

    This over-sized, extra-national influence is why US tax dollars continue to subsidize the destruction of Palestine, the unconditional arming of nuclear Israel, the ongoing destabilization of Iran, Lebanon and Syria, as well as arming many of that region's worst tyrants, including the Saudi royal family and the Kuwaiti Emir.

    Let's be clear: those who launch aggressive wars must be brought to justice, even if they do it while nesting high up in Official Washington.

    Unfortunately, these serial murderers are presently feted as celebrities and treated like heroes. But it's past time to bring down the evil empire and deliver all mass-murderers to justice. This belated retribution will be a blessing to humanity.

    {Let’s be clear: those who launch aggressive wars must be brought to justice, even if they do it while nesting high up in Official Washington.
    Unfortunately, these serial murderers are presently feted as celebrities and treated like heroes. But it’s past time to bring down the evil empire and deliver all mass-murderers to justice. This belated retribution will be a blessing to humanity.}

    Good sentiment: but how to do it ?
    Who is going to do it ?

    War criminal Blair was given the post of Middle East peace envoy (!): no, it’s no misprint. The war criminal who co-invaded Iraq with Bush, and caused death and destruction to several hundred thousand Iraqi civilians, was given the cushy post of “peace envoy”: what a sick joke.

    War criminal Bush is enjoying a peaceful retirement on his vast ranch, painting, completely oblivious to the death and destruction still going on in Iraq, after he unleashed the demons with his criminal invasion.

    And here is a lovely picture of war criminal Cheney surrounded by family.

    http://www.npr.org/2015/12/03/458361257/dick-cheneys-bust-unveiled-at-the-capitol-as-hes-lightly-roasted

    Melts one’s heart.
    Lovely little grandchildren. God bless them. May they live long and happy lives.
    Bet the family applauding the war criminal is oblivious to the fact that the evil man is responsible for the deaths of 10s of 1,000s of Iraqi grandchildren.
    What a sick show.

    So the question remains: how to bring these war criminals to Justice ?
    No international body can do it, because US runs the show and runs the roost.
    The only entity that can do it, is the American people.
    But those who live in US know how disconnected Americans are from these events.
    MSM is careful to hide the war crimes or explain them away.
    And the average Joe and Jane are disinclined to look too deep into the abyss.
    So life goes on here in US, and suffering caused by these monsters goes on far, far away from Middle Street, Anytown, USA.

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    • Replies: @geokat62

    Good sentiment: but how to do it ?
    Who is going to do it ?
     
    Two words: people power.

    Remember the neocons with their colour revolutions? Well, the US is overdue for its own colour revolution. As a tribute to the neocon's Trotskyist roots, we should dub it the "pink revolution."

    In that spirit, I invite you to join the Pink Revolution scheduled for the summer of 2020 in DC, A Declaration of Independence from Israel.

    Here are the people who have already expressed their commitment to attend:

    geokat62
    SolontoCroesus
    Alexander
    RobinG
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  • @Rehmat
    But OOZ darling, Gen. Moshe Dayan and Gen. Ariel Sharon were atheist like Karl Marx. They all used their Jewish mothers to fool idiots like you. Gen. al-Sisi is also playing the same trick by using his Muslim father to fool Egyptian, while adored by Israeli Jews.

    Gen. Sisi received praise from several Israeli leaders including prime minister Netanyahu. On January 31, 2014, Alex Traiman at JNS quoted former Israeli defense minister Binyamin Ben-Eliezer saying that Israel supported el-Sisi, but “we shouldn’t go out on the roofs and cry out in favor of el-Sisi. But what is going on in Egypt is positive for Israel, and you cannot deny it.”

    “Abdul Fattah El-Sisi is Egypt’s strong man right now and has been fighting against radical Islam and against the Muslim Brothers (members of the Muslim Brotherhood). This is very positive both for Egypt, but also for Israel and the entire Middle East,” said former Israeli Ambassador to Egypt Zvi Mazel.

    Gen. al-Sisi has been depicted as “defender of democracy and secularism” by the Jewish-controlled western mainstream media. Many top pro-Israel American lawmakers including Sen. John McCain, John Kerry, Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton , Henry Kissinger and Madeline Albright have dined with al-Sisi in Cairo.....

    http://rehmat1.com/2014/12/04/egypt-under-military-rule-is-good-for-israel/

    Gen. al-Sisi has been depicted as “defender of democracy and secularism” by the Jewish-controlled western mainstream media.

    Actually I’ve mostly seen negative reports on him, certainly no defender of democracy labels.

    However he clearly is a defender of secularism, christians and Egyptian natonalism.

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    • Replies: @Rehmat
    Neyth Moshe - You're confusing al-Sisi with Barack Obama who is the most hated US president in Israel, even worse than Jimmy Carter.

    In 2009, American Jewish writer and blogger, Max Blumenthal, visited the Zionist entity after Barack Obama’s so-called “historic speech” in Cairo in which he blasted Palestinian groups which carry armed resistance against the Zionist regime. Max was surprised by the Jewish hatred toward Barack Obama. He documented it in a video, Feeling the Hate in Israel, which was later removed from U-Tube and Huffington Post......

    http://rehmat1.com/2013/02/09/israeli-jews-hate-black-people/
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  • @Rurik
    .

    excellent post Mark

    I would just add that IMHO nothing will change until we audit and end the Fed

    as long as they have the power to create trillion$ effortlessly out of thin air and as long as money is the lifeblood of politics, nothing will change

    Since when isn’t premeditated mass murder a crime?
     
    in the meantime, we'll all live (or die) in a surreal world of endless wars for Israel

    http://novalight.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/ziosatan1.jpg?w=640

    The Fed has nothing to do with it. Israel has nothing to do with it. All the problems all the time have one single cause. Humans and their inability to change. The whole of human history is a catalogue of wholesale murder committed for all kinds of reasons. Territorial, religious, economic, racist, etc. I once saw a movie in which a couple of children ask an old man why there is war. He answers the war is because there are people. Is Israel responsible for all that? Even if there was some truth in your blame why not blame the corrupted. If I offer you a bribe and you accept it is it 100% my fault? Who is worse?

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    • Replies: @Rurik

    Is Israel responsible for all that? Even if there was some truth in your blame why not blame the corrupted.
     
    oh I do blame the corrupted, wholeheartedly. Absolutely and you're right, they are far more rotten than the corruptors to be sure.

    But at the heart of the problem is the fraud that is the Fed that gives a small group of men unlimited power to corrupt the all too easily corrupted. And since they're so easitly corrupted, it means wars and atrocities and human suffering on unimaginable scales. And even tho humans are flawed, I feel that when a few of them wield near total power over the masses, like Caligula's reign for instance, or the suffering in Gaza or Syria or Libya, and indeed so many other places where the suffering is contrived for the amusement and profits of a few, that these are some of the darkest chapters in human history. And it doesn't have to be like that if we humans could muster our better angels and kill the Fed. And free humanity from the caprice and absolute power of the absolutely corrupted. That's all. ; )
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • .

    excellent post Mark

    I would just add that IMHO nothing will change until we audit and end the Fed

    as long as they have the power to create trillion$ effortlessly out of thin air and as long as money is the lifeblood of politics, nothing will change

    Since when isn’t premeditated mass murder a crime?

    in the meantime, we’ll all live (or die) in a surreal world of endless wars for Israel

    Read More
    • Replies: @Regnum Nostrum
    The Fed has nothing to do with it. Israel has nothing to do with it. All the problems all the time have one single cause. Humans and their inability to change. The whole of human history is a catalogue of wholesale murder committed for all kinds of reasons. Territorial, religious, economic, racist, etc. I once saw a movie in which a couple of children ask an old man why there is war. He answers the war is because there are people. Is Israel responsible for all that? Even if there was some truth in your blame why not blame the corrupted. If I offer you a bribe and you accept it is it 100% my fault? Who is worse?
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • America and the ‘democratic’ West have no right to intervene in the sovereign affairs of foreign states. This arrogant propensity is a huge part of the problem. Let the people of that region determine their own futures. It’s not America’s business. Our government should tend to the pressing needs of its citizens.

    Ironically, preemptive Zio-American invasions needlessly destroyed two rising, secular Arab countries (Iraq and Libya) that sought no war with America and were no threat to the American people. A vast criminal conspiracy emanating from Washington culminated in the invasion and destruction of those two nations. Since when isn’t premeditated mass murder a crime?

    These wars of choice produced immeasurable suffering and wholesale destruction. Yet no one responsible for these wars has ever been brought to justice or so much as rebuked.

    Indeed, these war crimes have never even been addressed or treated as such. At worst, they are referred to as ‘blunders’ or ‘mistakes’ in our pro-war, pro-Zionist media. These deeds and this mindset are the hallmark of an evil empire.

    In a just world where the rule of law is paramount, those responsible for these wars of aggression would be brought to justice. But Zio-Washington operates above the law and outside the law.

    In the meantime, Arab political change will happen at its own pace. But let us strive to ‘do no further harm’. We have enough of our own problems to deal with. Besides, our armies have slaughtered perhaps as many as one million people since 2003 alone. The wanton killings must stop.

    It is our meddlesome government in Washington that’s the world’s greatest problem. Naturally, the Israeli factor cannot be ignored either since it’s the Israelis and their domestic operatives who shape Washington’s barbarous policies throughout the Middle East.

    This over-sized, extra-national influence is why US tax dollars continue to subsidize the destruction of Palestine, the unconditional arming of nuclear Israel, the ongoing destabilization of Iran, Lebanon and Syria, as well as arming many of that region’s worst tyrants, including the Saudi royal family and the Kuwaiti Emir.

    Let’s be clear: those who launch aggressive wars must be brought to justice, even if they do it while nesting high up in Official Washington.

    Unfortunately, these serial murderers are presently feted as celebrities and treated like heroes. But it’s past time to bring down the evil empire and deliver all mass-murderers to justice. This belated retribution will be a blessing to humanity.

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    • Agree: geokat62
    • Replies: @Avery
    {Let’s be clear: those who launch aggressive wars must be brought to justice, even if they do it while nesting high up in Official Washington.
    Unfortunately, these serial murderers are presently feted as celebrities and treated like heroes. But it’s past time to bring down the evil empire and deliver all mass-murderers to justice. This belated retribution will be a blessing to humanity.}

    Good sentiment: but how to do it ?
    Who is going to do it ?

    War criminal Blair was given the post of Middle East peace envoy (!): no, it's no misprint. The war criminal who co-invaded Iraq with Bush, and caused death and destruction to several hundred thousand Iraqi civilians, was given the cushy post of "peace envoy": what a sick joke.

    War criminal Bush is enjoying a peaceful retirement on his vast ranch, painting, completely oblivious to the death and destruction still going on in Iraq, after he unleashed the demons with his criminal invasion.

    And here is a lovely picture of war criminal Cheney surrounded by family.
    http://www.npr.org/2015/12/03/458361257/dick-cheneys-bust-unveiled-at-the-capitol-as-hes-lightly-roasted
    Melts one's heart.
    Lovely little grandchildren. God bless them. May they live long and happy lives.
    Bet the family applauding the war criminal is oblivious to the fact that the evil man is responsible for the deaths of 10s of 1,000s of Iraqi grandchildren.
    What a sick show.

    So the question remains: how to bring these war criminals to Justice ?
    No international body can do it, because US runs the show and runs the roost.
    The only entity that can do it, is the American people.
    But those who live in US know how disconnected Americans are from these events.
    MSM is careful to hide the war crimes or explain them away.
    And the average Joe and Jane are disinclined to look too deep into the abyss.
    So life goes on here in US, and suffering caused by these monsters goes on far, far away from Middle Street, Anytown, USA.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @unit472
    OTOH Turkey had been a stable democracy for decades but, under Erdogan, is slipping towards dictatorship. It maybe that a recrudescent Islam has made any sort of secular democratic rule impossible. While General al Sisi's regime was 'elected' it relied on the Army and al Sisi's own impeccable Islamic credentials to topple Morsi's Muslim Brotherhood and his regime maybe the best we can hope for in the region.

    Even if Islam wasn't a factor, outside of Turkey, the lack of any real industrial economy in Muslim nations combined with high birthrates, have created a large population of young men with almost no chance of finding well compensated employment outside of government. This creates a situation where holding political power has as much to do with one's economic success as any political arrangements. With the military and the mosque being the only institutions with the power to create or topple governments democratic rule is largely meaningless.

    I don’t know if the quote is apocryphal but Erdogan supposedly said: ” Democracy is a train, you ride it to where you want to go, then you get off.”

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  • @Che Guava
    Rehmat,

    can you give a precise description of why you accuse Mr. Cockburn of 'hasbara'?

    I know what the word means, please give your arguments for how he fits the definition.

    You would likely have more fun on e.g., the Wikipedia, where there are many real hasbara, and they are running it.

    You make the occasional comment which has the point or two that make sense, also, as pointed in my earlier reply to you, spout pure nonsense much of the time.

    How could you miss the obvious: Cockburn’s victims are usually victims of USrael fascism.

    Whosoever, recommend or believe Wickipedia, founded by an Israeli army Colonel – must be a rat under water.

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    • Replies: @Che Guava
    I try as well as I can to reply here. Right now, to sleep, perchance to dream.

    Regards Rehmat, but you do spout an aweful load of bullshit.

    Sure that you are nnt a specimen of Hazbara?
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Wizard of Oz
    Still trying to make Muslims look dumb? Not even Rehmat the mad self-referencing blogger could really believe the obvious crap you can find online about Al Sisi having a Jewish mother - unless you can believe too that he grew up next to Moshe Dayan and that Nasser was Jewish.

    But OOZ darling, Gen. Moshe Dayan and Gen. Ariel Sharon were atheist like Karl Marx. They all used their Jewish mothers to fool idiots like you. Gen. al-Sisi is also playing the same trick by using his Muslim father to fool Egyptian, while adored by Israeli Jews.

    Gen. Sisi received praise from several Israeli leaders including prime minister Netanyahu. On January 31, 2014, Alex Traiman at JNS quoted former Israeli defense minister Binyamin Ben-Eliezer saying that Israel supported el-Sisi, but “we shouldn’t go out on the roofs and cry out in favor of el-Sisi. But what is going on in Egypt is positive for Israel, and you cannot deny it.”

    “Abdul Fattah El-Sisi is Egypt’s strong man right now and has been fighting against radical Islam and against the Muslim Brothers (members of the Muslim Brotherhood). This is very positive both for Egypt, but also for Israel and the entire Middle East,” said former Israeli Ambassador to Egypt Zvi Mazel.

    Gen. al-Sisi has been depicted as “defender of democracy and secularism” by the Jewish-controlled western mainstream media. Many top pro-Israel American lawmakers including Sen. John McCain, John Kerry, Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton , Henry Kissinger and Madeline Albright have dined with al-Sisi in Cairo…..

    http://rehmat1.com/2014/12/04/egypt-under-military-rule-is-good-for-israel/

    Read More
    • Replies: @This Is Our Home

    Gen. al-Sisi has been depicted as “defender of democracy and secularism” by the Jewish-controlled western mainstream media.
     
    Actually I've mostly seen negative reports on him, certainly no defender of democracy labels.

    However he clearly is a defender of secularism, christians and Egyptian natonalism.
    , @Wizard of Oz
    So? I see you can read the words in English but.....
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Overbreeding is less of a risk in a high-potential population. It’s a gamble, true, but those six poor kids can produce more than their costs. E.g., New England Puritans in the 17th century, Ashkenazi Jews (and to a lesser extent, other European immigrants) in the “Great Wave” to the US.

    The reality is very different for other populations. It’s like oil exploration. BP found that when the odds were 10%, the reality was 1% success. But when the odds were determined to be 75%, the reality turned out to be almost 100% success.

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  • Men of intemperate minds cannot self rule, their passions form their fetters.

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  • This is what happens when you deliberately ignore the power of demographics. This is what happens when people who could maybe support two children each have six.

    Take Syria. The government banned contraceptives, and propagandized that people needed to all breed like crazy because it would be great – and as is true for all nations without an open frontier, it was a lie. The population of Syria doubled every 18 years for nearly three generations, and then the water ran out and food ran out and the place collapsed. And yet, there is a virtual ban on Assad’s policy of breeding his subjects like cattle.

    When populations push up against limits, you don’t suddenly get mass famine. You get slow grinding poverty. On any given day there is always some other thing that is perhaps more important than population growth, but like gravity, population growth is inexorable, the pressure builds and builds. The poverty frays the social structure, and no matter what anyone does – more capitalism, less capitalism, more democracy, less democracy, western intervention, no western intervention, etc., things fall apart.

    Ultimately this is the result of nearly 50 years of neoliberal propaganda, hiding the old pragmatic consensus of Malthus and Riccardo and John Stuart Mill and John Maynard Keynes, and demanding that people having more children than they can support is guaranteed to always be a great thing.

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  • @Regnum Nostrum

    The West played a role in supporting uprisings against leaders they wanted to see displaced such as Muammar Gaddafi and Assad. But they gave extraordinarily little thought to what would replace these regimes. They did not see that the civil war in Syria was bound to destabilise Iraq and lead to a resumption of the Sunni-Shia war there.
     
    Are you trying to tell us that Iraq was a stable country? I do not think that Iraq required a civil war in Syria to become destabilized. I also disagree with the claim that the West ( whoever that is) gave little thought to the consequences of their actions. It seems that the only people who give little thought to their actions are the myriads of "analysts and thinkers" who seem to multiply faster than a bacteria in a Petri dish. I have a simple test in determining who is a fool. If someone's action, no matter how stupid it looks to us, benefits that someone, than he is not a fool. If on the other hand an action harms the originator than he is a fool. I do not see any harm coming to the US from all the mayhem in the Middle East.

    I have a simple test in determining who is a fool. If someone’s action, no matter how stupid it looks to us, benefits that someone, than he is not a fool. If on the other hand an action harms the originator than he is a fool. I do not see any harm coming to the US from all the mayhem in the Middle East.

    I like your test, but I disagree with your assertion that the US has not suffered any harm from all the mayhem in the Middle East. Case in point? I believe it was general Patreaus, himself, who testified before the Senate Armed Services Committee that:

    the enduring hostilities between Israel and some of its neighbors present distinct challenges to advance our interest in the AOR (Area of Responsibility). Israeli-Palestinian tensions often flare into violence and large scale armed confrontations. The conflict foments anti-American sentiment, due to a perception of U.S. favoritism for Israel. Arab anger over the Palestinian question limits the strength and depth of U.S. partnerships with governments and peoples in the AOR and weakens the legitimacy of moderate regimes in the Arab world. Meanwhile Al-Qaeda and other militant groups exploit that anger to mobilize support. The conflict also gives Iran influence in the Arab world through its clients, Lebanese Hizbollah and Hamas.

    Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/229502/petraeuss-israel-problem-andrew-c-mccarthy

    That said, I think your test indeed applies perfectly well to the Zionist project. They are the prime beneficiaries of all the mayhem in the ME, at the US taxpayers’ expense and in all the lives lost. I also think that Mearsheimer and Walt did an excellent job in documenting the harm the special relationship has done to American interests.

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    • Replies: @rabbit
    geokat62, I disagree with Obama and Sanders the US has any claims, rights or credible reasons to be a player in the ME. ISIS is just the latest excuse to wade into that region and lay claims- I have yet to hear a convincing rationale for declaring ISIS a US enemy and for boots on the ground or covert sandals to defeat any sect or tribe in the ME. Further, Israel and the Saudis should be cut off rather than supported by the US, or sold US arms. Do you disagree, and if so why? Please if possible include cites and links for support. I'm hoping to learn more.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • The West played a role in supporting uprisings against leaders they wanted to see displaced such as Muammar Gaddafi and Assad. But they gave extraordinarily little thought to what would replace these regimes. They did not see that the civil war in Syria was bound to destabilise Iraq and lead to a resumption of the Sunni-Shia war there.

    Are you trying to tell us that Iraq was a stable country? I do not think that Iraq required a civil war in Syria to become destabilized. I also disagree with the claim that the West ( whoever that is) gave little thought to the consequences of their actions. It seems that the only people who give little thought to their actions are the myriads of “analysts and thinkers” who seem to multiply faster than a bacteria in a Petri dish. I have a simple test in determining who is a fool. If someone’s action, no matter how stupid it looks to us, benefits that someone, than he is not a fool. If on the other hand an action harms the originator than he is a fool. I do not see any harm coming to the US from all the mayhem in the Middle East.

    Read More
    • Replies: @geokat62

    I have a simple test in determining who is a fool. If someone’s action, no matter how stupid it looks to us, benefits that someone, than he is not a fool. If on the other hand an action harms the originator than he is a fool. I do not see any harm coming to the US from all the mayhem in the Middle East.
     
    I like your test, but I disagree with your assertion that the US has not suffered any harm from all the mayhem in the Middle East. Case in point? I believe it was general Patreaus, himself, who testified before the Senate Armed Services Committee that:

    the enduring hostilities between Israel and some of its neighbors present distinct challenges to advance our interest in the AOR (Area of Responsibility). Israeli-Palestinian tensions often flare into violence and large scale armed confrontations. The conflict foments anti-American sentiment, due to a perception of U.S. favoritism for Israel. Arab anger over the Palestinian question limits the strength and depth of U.S. partnerships with governments and peoples in the AOR and weakens the legitimacy of moderate regimes in the Arab world. Meanwhile Al-Qaeda and other militant groups exploit that anger to mobilize support. The conflict also gives Iran influence in the Arab world through its clients, Lebanese Hizbollah and Hamas.

    Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/229502/petraeuss-israel-problem-andrew-c-mccarthy
     
    That said, I think your test indeed applies perfectly well to the Zionist project. They are the prime beneficiaries of all the mayhem in the ME, at the US taxpayers' expense and in all the lives lost. I also think that Mearsheimer and Walt did an excellent job in documenting the harm the special relationship has done to American interests.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Rehmat
    A good Hasbara job, as usual, Patrick Cockburn.

    For readers information - The so-called "Arab Spring" succeeded its agenda for which it was given birth by the US State Department and Zionist Jewish funded NGOs. It destroyed all possible future challenges to the Zionist entity.

    During his visit to Israel in March 2014, Gen. Martin Dempsey told reporters that the current instability across the Middle East as result of the so-called Arab Spring will benefit the Zionist entity in the long run. He stated that several American Sunni allies in the Middle East, who are worried of the rising power of Iran, (a Shi’tte-majority nation) are finding Israel as an ally. Tehran is known for its support of anti-Israel Shi’tte regime in Iraq, the Ba’athist regime in Damascus, Shi’tte Hizbullah and Sunni Hamas/Islamic Jihad.

    The Arab Spring was first experimented in Tunisia over three years ago. It replaced the unpopular regime of pro-American Ben Ali with Moncef Marzouki, a man groomed by the Jewish billionaire George Soro’s Open Society. The Israel Lobby (AIPAC) blessed the ruling “Islamist” al-Nahda party recently.

    After Tunisia, the Arab Spring was exported to Libya, Egypt, Yemen and Syria. In Egypt, the unpopular military dictatorship of Husni Mubarak is replaced with military dictatorship of Gen. el-Sisi, a Crypto Jew (born to a Moroccan Jewish mother).

    A bloody regime change also succeeded in the overthrow and murder of Libyan leader Qaddafi, who was considered an enemy of Israel.

    http://rehmat1.com/2014/04/01/gen-dempsey-israel-benefits-from-arab-spring/

    Rehmat,

    can you give a precise description of why you accuse Mr. Cockburn of ‘hasbara’?

    I know what the word means, please give your arguments for how he fits the definition.

    You would likely have more fun on e.g., the Wikipedia, where there are many real hasbara, and they are running it.

    You make the occasional comment which has the point or two that make sense, also, as pointed in my earlier reply to you, spout pure nonsense much of the time.

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    • Replies: @Rehmat
    How could you miss the obvious: Cockburn's victims are usually victims of USrael fascism.

    Whosoever, recommend or believe Wickipedia, founded by an Israeli army Colonel - must be a rat under water.
    , @AmericanaCON
    The problem with Rehmat is that his hatred for Jews destroys his sometimes very good points about Israel and Jewish identity politics. You see this Anti-Semitic, Islamophobic, racists (including towards whites), Anti-Christian, Xenophobic madness in all marginalized organizations, groups and networks in all political, ideological and religious stripes. I don’t like to use concepts like “extremism” but it can be applied on certain events through history. Nazi-Germany (1933-1945), Soviet Union (until 1950s) and Khmer Rouge (1975-1979), ISIS (1999-present) all went too far resulting in millions of deaths.

    The reasons why we have these occurring genocides is because of our elites in all civilizations force people into a corner and then breed radicalism. The Western world is going through this right now. Europeans in Europe and the Diaspora in United States, Australia, New Zeeland and South Africa have been pushed into a corner and this is why we see a rise in ethno-nationalism and racism. We can only hope that the reformists are able to replace our current elites and force a change in policy before it boils over into nationalism. What Rehmat (and other Muslims) don’t understand is that white people as they become radicalized will not take lightly on Muslim migrants regardless if they are good or bad. The problem with Muslim organizations like CAIR and Muslims in United States is that they don’t seem to understand the history of their adopted country.

    United States was founded by white Anglo-Protestants. It was founded as white European country which only granted citizenship to whites. Although, United States did grant citizenship to non-whites it was something fairly rare. Immigration was also kept to a minimum until after the civil war. In the 1950 about 90 percent of the population were white (almost exclusively non-Hispanic and a large extent West and Northern European), 75% were Protestants and about 93 percent were Christians. When CAIR argue for open borders, multiculturalism and that United States ought to house their needs the majority of white Americans perceive them as a threat to their identity. CAIR may be legally correct. United States has not been an ethnocracy since 1965 but in the mind of white Americans it is.

    In Europe you see even more hostility towards non-white or/and non-Christian migrants (and minorities) as many European states were born as ethno-states or unions of ethno-states such as United Kingdom. What Rehmat (so common among Muslims) does not realize is the dynamics of ethnic relations. White Christians have in general not a problem with individuals Muslims. However, they do not want to become a minority in what they perceive as their “land”. White Christians show hostility towards Muslims as a group and non as individuals. Hence, whites Christians don’t care if they are law-abiding good citizens. They don’t care if they contribute financially to Western countries.

    Whites perceive them as threat because of what they are not what they do. All ethnic, racial and religious groups tend to act like this. Morally wrong? Well, I personally think so but that is sadly how the cookie crumbles. Rehmat may dislike or even hate Jews but what he should understand that the hatred is probably mutual and he will find very few whites who want to create an alliance with him. The growing nationalism in the West is not caused by Jews but by visible minorities such as Muslims – all of whom are first, second or maybe third generation migrants from third world countries. What Rehmat should spend is time doing is to create understanding among peoples and respect for the differences. He should engage in a dialog and not hate speech against Jews or any other group. The same goes for Christians, Jews, Hindus, Whites, Asian and Blacks. It applies for all people.
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  • The Arab Spring was a delusion which took hold because many Western politicians and the liberal media are continually clutching at straws.

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  • In Egypt, the unpopular military dictatorship of Husni Mubarak is replaced with military dictatorship of Gen. el-Sisi, a Crypto Jew (born to a Moroccan Jewish mother).

    It seems that only Jews ever want to lead Arab countries. I’ve read that Morsi and Mubarak were both crypto Jews as is Assad, Bin Laden, Bagdhadi, Erdogan, the Sauds, Khomeini and even Muhammed.

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  • Cockburn is either hopelessly naive or….

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  • @Rehmat
    A good Hasbara job, as usual, Patrick Cockburn.

    For readers information - The so-called "Arab Spring" succeeded its agenda for which it was given birth by the US State Department and Zionist Jewish funded NGOs. It destroyed all possible future challenges to the Zionist entity.

    During his visit to Israel in March 2014, Gen. Martin Dempsey told reporters that the current instability across the Middle East as result of the so-called Arab Spring will benefit the Zionist entity in the long run. He stated that several American Sunni allies in the Middle East, who are worried of the rising power of Iran, (a Shi’tte-majority nation) are finding Israel as an ally. Tehran is known for its support of anti-Israel Shi’tte regime in Iraq, the Ba’athist regime in Damascus, Shi’tte Hizbullah and Sunni Hamas/Islamic Jihad.

    The Arab Spring was first experimented in Tunisia over three years ago. It replaced the unpopular regime of pro-American Ben Ali with Moncef Marzouki, a man groomed by the Jewish billionaire George Soro’s Open Society. The Israel Lobby (AIPAC) blessed the ruling “Islamist” al-Nahda party recently.

    After Tunisia, the Arab Spring was exported to Libya, Egypt, Yemen and Syria. In Egypt, the unpopular military dictatorship of Husni Mubarak is replaced with military dictatorship of Gen. el-Sisi, a Crypto Jew (born to a Moroccan Jewish mother).

    A bloody regime change also succeeded in the overthrow and murder of Libyan leader Qaddafi, who was considered an enemy of Israel.

    http://rehmat1.com/2014/04/01/gen-dempsey-israel-benefits-from-arab-spring/

    Still trying to make Muslims look dumb? Not even Rehmat the mad self-referencing blogger could really believe the obvious crap you can find online about Al Sisi having a Jewish mother – unless you can believe too that he grew up next to Moshe Dayan and that Nasser was Jewish.

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    • Replies: @Rehmat
    But OOZ darling, Gen. Moshe Dayan and Gen. Ariel Sharon were atheist like Karl Marx. They all used their Jewish mothers to fool idiots like you. Gen. al-Sisi is also playing the same trick by using his Muslim father to fool Egyptian, while adored by Israeli Jews.

    Gen. Sisi received praise from several Israeli leaders including prime minister Netanyahu. On January 31, 2014, Alex Traiman at JNS quoted former Israeli defense minister Binyamin Ben-Eliezer saying that Israel supported el-Sisi, but “we shouldn’t go out on the roofs and cry out in favor of el-Sisi. But what is going on in Egypt is positive for Israel, and you cannot deny it.”

    “Abdul Fattah El-Sisi is Egypt’s strong man right now and has been fighting against radical Islam and against the Muslim Brothers (members of the Muslim Brotherhood). This is very positive both for Egypt, but also for Israel and the entire Middle East,” said former Israeli Ambassador to Egypt Zvi Mazel.

    Gen. al-Sisi has been depicted as “defender of democracy and secularism” by the Jewish-controlled western mainstream media. Many top pro-Israel American lawmakers including Sen. John McCain, John Kerry, Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton , Henry Kissinger and Madeline Albright have dined with al-Sisi in Cairo.....

    http://rehmat1.com/2014/12/04/egypt-under-military-rule-is-good-for-israel/
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  • that is because the arab spring was used for perverse purposes. Kinda sad. remember the hongkong protests? ukraine protests? same shit. the reason why china kicked out foreign NGOs.

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  • Anyone dumb enough to think anything good for the world could come out of the “Arab Spring” should be disqualified from voting or holding office.

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  • Andrei Martyanov [AKA "SmoothieX12"] says: • Website

    Any Arab “anything” which starts with reciting Federalist Papers and Locke will, inevitably, end up with some guy in turban with Quran in one hand and AK-47 (or Singer, wink, wink) in another. But they don’t teach that thing in Ivy League. But that is what it all comes down to. That is why, I guess, elimination of Arab secular nationalists dictators is such a big business of the US–let the “freedom” ring (wink, wink).

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  • There is not and never has been a free democratic Arab country EVER in all of history. That should tell us something right there.

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    • Replies: @Bill Jones
    Yup, it tells us that the West should stop fucking around in their countries.

    Care to name two that haven't been fucked over by the colonial powers in the pasr 100 years or so?

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  • A good Hasbara job, as usual, Patrick Cockburn.

    For readers information – The so-called “Arab Spring” succeeded its agenda for which it was given birth by the US State Department and Zionist Jewish funded NGOs. It destroyed all possible future challenges to the Zionist entity.

    During his visit to Israel in March 2014, Gen. Martin Dempsey told reporters that the current instability across the Middle East as result of the so-called Arab Spring will benefit the Zionist entity in the long run. He stated that several American Sunni allies in the Middle East, who are worried of the rising power of Iran, (a Shi’tte-majority nation) are finding Israel as an ally. Tehran is known for its support of anti-Israel Shi’tte regime in Iraq, the Ba’athist regime in Damascus, Shi’tte Hizbullah and Sunni Hamas/Islamic Jihad.

    The Arab Spring was first experimented in Tunisia over three years ago. It replaced the unpopular regime of pro-American Ben Ali with Moncef Marzouki, a man groomed by the Jewish billionaire George Soro’s Open Society. The Israel Lobby (AIPAC) blessed the ruling “Islamist” al-Nahda party recently.

    After Tunisia, the Arab Spring was exported to Libya, Egypt, Yemen and Syria. In Egypt, the unpopular military dictatorship of Husni Mubarak is replaced with military dictatorship of Gen. el-Sisi, a Crypto Jew (born to a Moroccan Jewish mother).

    A bloody regime change also succeeded in the overthrow and murder of Libyan leader Qaddafi, who was considered an enemy of Israel.

    http://rehmat1.com/2014/04/01/gen-dempsey-israel-benefits-from-arab-spring/

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    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    Still trying to make Muslims look dumb? Not even Rehmat the mad self-referencing blogger could really believe the obvious crap you can find online about Al Sisi having a Jewish mother - unless you can believe too that he grew up next to Moshe Dayan and that Nasser was Jewish.
    , @Che Guava
    Rehmat,

    can you give a precise description of why you accuse Mr. Cockburn of 'hasbara'?

    I know what the word means, please give your arguments for how he fits the definition.

    You would likely have more fun on e.g., the Wikipedia, where there are many real hasbara, and they are running it.

    You make the occasional comment which has the point or two that make sense, also, as pointed in my earlier reply to you, spout pure nonsense much of the time.
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  • OTOH Turkey had been a stable democracy for decades but, under Erdogan, is slipping towards dictatorship. It maybe that a recrudescent Islam has made any sort of secular democratic rule impossible. While General al Sisi’s regime was ‘elected’ it relied on the Army and al Sisi’s own impeccable Islamic credentials to topple Morsi’s Muslim Brotherhood and his regime maybe the best we can hope for in the region.

    Even if Islam wasn’t a factor, outside of Turkey, the lack of any real industrial economy in Muslim nations combined with high birthrates, have created a large population of young men with almost no chance of finding well compensated employment outside of government. This creates a situation where holding political power has as much to do with one’s economic success as any political arrangements. With the military and the mosque being the only institutions with the power to create or topple governments democratic rule is largely meaningless.

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    • Agree: Thirdeye
    • Replies: @Alfa158
    I don't know if the quote is apocryphal but Erdogan supposedly said: " Democracy is a train, you ride it to where you want to go, then you get off."
    , @Bill Jones
    Stable democracy?
    Turkey?

    Have a listen to the great Sibel Edmonds. Here:
    https://www.corbettreport.com/interview-1120-sibel-edmonds-explains-the-erdogan-takedown/

    The Erdogan replacement lives five miles down the road from me. The local Gulen is not the usually nationally reported one.
    , @orly
    how many coups per decade are allowed to be classified as "stable democracy"
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  • @Bill Jones
    "What went so disastrously wrong?"

    Why do you think the end result was not the intended result?

    Ask the Hebrews

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    • Replies: @Epaminondas
    Mosad's fingerprints are all over this.
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  • “What went so disastrously wrong?”

    Why do you think the end result was not the intended result?

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    • Replies: @Kyle a
    Ask the Hebrews
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  • I was planning to visit Baghdad last summer and stay with my friend Ammar al-Shahbander, who ran the local office of the Institute for War and Peace Reporting. I had stayed with him for 10 days in June 2014, just after Isis forces had captured Mosul and Tikrit and were advancing with alarming speed on...
  • The Sunni Arabs have lost in Iraq and they will be totally destroyed. Their biggest mistake was to hitch their loyalties to ISIS – though I entirely accept that there is vengeance and deep seated hatred caused by Shiite atrocities after the fall of Saddam which are responsible for this. BUT, facts are facts.

    The Shiites and Kurds control 90 percent of the oil in Iraq – and whatever is left in the hands of the Sunni Arabs is slowly becoming unusable by the bombing of supply lines by the Russians who have created a serious amount of trouble for the export of this oil out of Iraq and Syria. It is clear now to any one willing to pay attention that the survival of ISIS is dependent on the Turks without which it will collapse. One additional risk for the Sunni Arabs now is that the various Sunni militias that are NOT ISIS will not be “encouraged” by various factions to make war on ISIS. This will end up pitting Sunni Arab against Sunni Arab and wreck whatever chance there may have been for the Sunni Arabs to have a sustainable state of their own in Syria and Iraq. Saddam was really their last best hope. And although he had his flaws, he seemed to have some intelligence in holding this mad crazy country together somehow.

    Now we have two viable factions in Iraq – the Kurds of the north and the Shia Arabs of the South (the latter have even started making some gains against ISIS). The latter will also become an Iranian satellite state and will control close to 100 billion barrels of crude oil reserves of the highest quality, which will be worth much more when oil prices rebound (which they will, rapidly).

    Bush invaded Iraq and Iran won the war. Life is funny like that.

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  • @Rehmat
    I'm sorry to burst your Zionist balloon again. Your Iraq friend works for a anti-Muslim Zionist advocacy group. The entire staff of 'Institute for War and Peace Reporting', according to Israeli Wikipedia, has no Muslim on board. It's loaded with Zionist Christian and Jews. Moreover, it's linked to pro-Israel advocacy groups like Freedom House, US-based HRW, which fired professor Richard Falk a few years ago for criticizing Israel, IFES, ICG, Reporters Without Borders, Open Society Institute, and Iraq Foundation given birth by Zionists Condoleezza Rice and L. Paul Bremer III.

    After that introduction, I don't think there is no not to laugh at rest of your narrative except that you may not know, Caliph Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi alia Elliott Shimon was born into a French Jewish family.

    On July 21, 2015, a frustrated US president Barack Obama couldn’t control his temper and spelled out the truth about the America’s invasion, occupation and destruction of Middle East’s oil-rich and most liberal country, Iraq for Israel.

    Speaking to the Veterans of Foreign Wars national convention in Pittsburgh via phone, Obama likened the US-Iran deal critics to the powerful neocons (mostly Jewish) in Bushes administration, who pushed US into Iraq War based on anti-Saddam lies.

    Obama said that the people who were “so quick to go to war” and who claimed that the war will take only a few months. The same people are now “chest beating” and popping off soundbites that don’t help the debate. He also said that instead of running into a military conflict with Iran, the US should only send troops to harm’s way as a last resort.....

    http://rehmat1.com/2015/08/01/obama-iran-deal-critics-gave-us-iraq-war/

    Thank you for the revelation about Cockburn it did burst my bubble no wonder Pres Obama is hated and in the end Iran will overturn all that was done to the middle east and its challenge to the Zionist regime on occupied Palestine lands.

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  • @Rehmat
    I'm sorry to burst your Zionist balloon again. Your Iraq friend works for a anti-Muslim Zionist advocacy group. The entire staff of 'Institute for War and Peace Reporting', according to Israeli Wikipedia, has no Muslim on board. It's loaded with Zionist Christian and Jews. Moreover, it's linked to pro-Israel advocacy groups like Freedom House, US-based HRW, which fired professor Richard Falk a few years ago for criticizing Israel, IFES, ICG, Reporters Without Borders, Open Society Institute, and Iraq Foundation given birth by Zionists Condoleezza Rice and L. Paul Bremer III.

    After that introduction, I don't think there is no not to laugh at rest of your narrative except that you may not know, Caliph Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi alia Elliott Shimon was born into a French Jewish family.

    On July 21, 2015, a frustrated US president Barack Obama couldn’t control his temper and spelled out the truth about the America’s invasion, occupation and destruction of Middle East’s oil-rich and most liberal country, Iraq for Israel.

    Speaking to the Veterans of Foreign Wars national convention in Pittsburgh via phone, Obama likened the US-Iran deal critics to the powerful neocons (mostly Jewish) in Bushes administration, who pushed US into Iraq War based on anti-Saddam lies.

    Obama said that the people who were “so quick to go to war” and who claimed that the war will take only a few months. The same people are now “chest beating” and popping off soundbites that don’t help the debate. He also said that instead of running into a military conflict with Iran, the US should only send troops to harm’s way as a last resort.....

    http://rehmat1.com/2015/08/01/obama-iran-deal-critics-gave-us-iraq-war/

    The Institute for War and Peace Reporting website reports never cover human right or freedom of speech in preferred countries such as Israel, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Kuwait, Qatar and UAE. When you look at their “partners” it is easy to see that they have a “soft power” role in the Neolib and Neocon full Spectrum Dominance.

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  • Did I miss the part where Cockburn blames the appalling lack of security on Washington’s wars in the Middle East and N Africa???

    Judging by the title (“Freedom and safety are scarce five years after the Arab Spring”) you’d think the Arabs were to blame.

    Isn’t that what Cockburn is trying to say, that the Arabs are responsible for the wars that Washington launched??

    What we have here is another Cockburn masterpiece of deception…

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  • I’m sorry to burst your Zionist balloon again. Your Iraq friend works for a anti-Muslim Zionist advocacy group. The entire staff of ‘Institute for War and Peace Reporting’, according to Israeli Wikipedia, has no Muslim on board. It’s loaded with Zionist Christian and Jews. Moreover, it’s linked to pro-Israel advocacy groups like Freedom House, US-based HRW, which fired professor Richard Falk a few years ago for criticizing Israel, IFES, ICG, Reporters Without Borders, Open Society Institute, and Iraq Foundation given birth by Zionists Condoleezza Rice and L. Paul Bremer III.

    After that introduction, I don’t think there is no not to laugh at rest of your narrative except that you may not know, Caliph Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi alia Elliott Shimon was born into a French Jewish family.

    On July 21, 2015, a frustrated US president Barack Obama couldn’t control his temper and spelled out the truth about the America’s invasion, occupation and destruction of Middle East’s oil-rich and most liberal country, Iraq for Israel.

    Speaking to the Veterans of Foreign Wars national convention in Pittsburgh via phone, Obama likened the US-Iran deal critics to the powerful neocons (mostly Jewish) in Bushes administration, who pushed US into Iraq War based on anti-Saddam lies.

    Obama said that the people who were “so quick to go to war” and who claimed that the war will take only a few months. The same people are now “chest beating” and popping off soundbites that don’t help the debate. He also said that instead of running into a military conflict with Iran, the US should only send troops to harm’s way as a last resort…..

    http://rehmat1.com/2015/08/01/obama-iran-deal-critics-gave-us-iraq-war/

    Read More
    • Replies: @krollchem
    The Institute for War and Peace Reporting website reports never cover human right or freedom of speech in preferred countries such as Israel, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Kuwait, Qatar and UAE. When you look at their "partners" it is easy to see that they have a "soft power" role in the Neolib and Neocon full Spectrum Dominance.
    , @argos
    Thank you for the revelation about Cockburn it did burst my bubble no wonder Pres Obama is hated and in the end Iran will overturn all that was done to the middle east and its challenge to the Zionist regime on occupied Palestine lands.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Sima Diab on Twitter makes the observation that the countries most affected by the "Arab Spring" are easy to find on a live air traffic map (because nobody is going there). Don't you just hear that crickets chirping sound of freedom ringing? Incidentally, Russia's and Britain's hardline response to what is now universally understood to...
  • @greysquirrell
    The Han Chinese are the exception ; they are winning against the Muslim Uighurs. The Han are slowly but surely and deliberately wiping out the Uighurs . The Chinese don't give a dam about PC,diversity,tolerance etc.. and will put down any major Muslim uprising with extreme prejudice , and Muslims know it.

    I don´t believe it. In the recent decade there have been numerous terror attacks and very violent street riots / pogroms. The victim have been overwhelmingly Han. The Chinese government does effectively nothing against it, apart from some kind of appeasement policy, which is very similar to what the West does

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  • @greysquirrell
    Good let the Egyptians extract more money from the Saudis ; will mean the Saudis will deplete their reservers faster . Less money the Saudis have , the better.

    By that logic you should support anything and everything the Saudis choose to spend their money on. I’m glad to know you’re a fan of Jaish al Fatah.

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  • @matt
    The real reason why canceling flights to Egypt is a bad idea is not because it will harm that "good guy Sisi" (lol). It's because, by depriving Egypt of tourist revenue, it will increase Egypt's financial dependence on the Saudis, which has already skyrocketed to astronomical heights under "good guy Sisi". This, in turn, will further enhance the influence of Salafists. And we will all be able to thank "good guy Sisi" for this lovely turn of events. All hail "good guy Sisi".

    Good let the Egyptians extract more money from the Saudis ; will mean the Saudis will deplete their reservers faster . Less money the Saudis have , the better.

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    • Replies: @matt
    By that logic you should support anything and everything the Saudis choose to spend their money on. I'm glad to know you're a fan of Jaish al Fatah.
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  • @Erik Sieven
    might be, but than the same holds true for Hindu Indians, Han Chinese, secular Muslims in muslim countries (especially nationalists in muslim countries), christian and other non-muslim Africans.

    The Han Chinese are the exception ; they are winning against the Muslim Uighurs. The Han are slowly but surely and deliberately wiping out the Uighurs . The Chinese don’t give a dam about PC,diversity,tolerance etc.. and will put down any major Muslim uprising with extreme prejudice , and Muslims know it.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Erik Sieven
    I don´t believe it. In the recent decade there have been numerous terror attacks and very violent street riots / pogroms. The victim have been overwhelmingly Han. The Chinese government does effectively nothing against it, apart from some kind of appeasement policy, which is very similar to what the West does
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  • matt says:
    @matt
    By destroying the Muslim Brotherhood (who are not angels), Sisi created a vacuum that has been filled by violent Salafists like IS. The notion that Sisi is the solution to Egypt's problems is laughable.

    The real reason why canceling flights to Egypt is a bad idea is not because it will harm that “good guy Sisi” (lol). It’s because, by depriving Egypt of tourist revenue, it will increase Egypt’s financial dependence on the Saudis, which has already skyrocketed to astronomical heights under “good guy Sisi”. This, in turn, will further enhance the influence of Salafists. And we will all be able to thank “good guy Sisi” for this lovely turn of events. All hail “good guy Sisi”.

    Read More
    • Replies: @greysquirrell
    Good let the Egyptians extract more money from the Saudis ; will mean the Saudis will deplete their reservers faster . Less money the Saudis have , the better.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • By destroying the Muslim Brotherhood (who are not angels), Sisi created a vacuum that has been filled by violent Salafists like IS. The notion that Sisi is the solution to Egypt’s problems is laughable.

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    • Replies: @matt
    The real reason why canceling flights to Egypt is a bad idea is not because it will harm that "good guy Sisi" (lol). It's because, by depriving Egypt of tourist revenue, it will increase Egypt's financial dependence on the Saudis, which has already skyrocketed to astronomical heights under "good guy Sisi". This, in turn, will further enhance the influence of Salafists. And we will all be able to thank "good guy Sisi" for this lovely turn of events. All hail "good guy Sisi".
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  • Indeed, I see no traffic over Libya, but Tunisia seems busy enough, and that’s where the whole Arab Spring started. If I were to guess at the significant distinguishing factor, it would be that the revolution in Tunisia was mostly indigenous, whereas Libya was “liberated” by outside forces. The obvious lesson is that we should not intervene on either side in these domestic quarrels, however tempting it may be for our grandiose geopolitical schemes.

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  • @Kamran
    Of course it's fucking intended. Do you think the kind of predators who sit in the Pentagon and the three-letter agencies give a fuck about civilian casualties? Do you think they give a fuck about the refugee crisis? Of course not. Anything to accomplish geopolitical goals. It's not even a fucking conspiracy. Kissinger said so himself in his autobiography and his books, and he has even gone on the record admitting it.

    "The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes some time."

    Then you have the contras being armed by Reagan (lol) , the training camps in Jordan where Syrian rebels were trained.

    I don’t know…of course there are theories that the US is deliberately wrecking states and creating chaos in the Mideast (often with reference to that “A clean break” paper from the 1990s and the activities of the Project for a new American century), thereby creating favorable conditions for jihadis…and certainly US (and to a lesser degree European) policy has had that effect…but I’m doubtful whether this is intentional. It just seems like a fantastically stupid policy.

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  • @German_reader
    Well yes, I know what you're getting at, somehow the policies of the US and other Western states have had the effect of benefiting Islamists in the Mideast (and of course this has been going on for a long time).
    I'm not sure though if that's intended or just the result of massive stupidity (and possibly corruption) among Western elites.
    Anyway, back to the main topic: I understand the argument that it plays into the hands of the Islamists if tourism declines (and that's the intention behind those attacks)...but seriously, who's going to risk his own life and vacation in countries that can't ensure basic security? I certainly wouldn't. And you're not just at risk from Islamists...only a few weeks ago, Egyptian security forces shot some unlucky Mexican tourists because they mistook them for jihadis...

    Of course it’s fucking intended. Do you think the kind of predators who sit in the Pentagon and the three-letter agencies give a fuck about civilian casualties? Do you think they give a fuck about the refugee crisis? Of course not. Anything to accomplish geopolitical goals. It’s not even a fucking conspiracy. Kissinger said so himself in his autobiography and his books, and he has even gone on the record admitting it.

    “The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes some time.”

    Then you have the contras being armed by Reagan (lol) , the training camps in Jordan where Syrian rebels were trained.

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    • Replies: @German_reader
    I don't know...of course there are theories that the US is deliberately wrecking states and creating chaos in the Mideast (often with reference to that "A clean break" paper from the 1990s and the activities of the Project for a new American century), thereby creating favorable conditions for jihadis...and certainly US (and to a lesser degree European) policy has had that effect...but I'm doubtful whether this is intentional. It just seems like a fantastically stupid policy.
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  • @Kamran
    You're assuming such people (and the jihadis they fund) are completely useless. On the contrary, they are extremely useful, precisely to the kind of people who create unfortunate accidents.

    Well yes, I know what you’re getting at, somehow the policies of the US and other Western states have had the effect of benefiting Islamists in the Mideast (and of course this has been going on for a long time).
    I’m not sure though if that’s intended or just the result of massive stupidity (and possibly corruption) among Western elites.
    Anyway, back to the main topic: I understand the argument that it plays into the hands of the Islamists if tourism declines (and that’s the intention behind those attacks)…but seriously, who’s going to risk his own life and vacation in countries that can’t ensure basic security? I certainly wouldn’t. And you’re not just at risk from Islamists…only a few weeks ago, Egyptian security forces shot some unlucky Mexican tourists because they mistook them for jihadis…

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    • Replies: @Kamran
    Of course it's fucking intended. Do you think the kind of predators who sit in the Pentagon and the three-letter agencies give a fuck about civilian casualties? Do you think they give a fuck about the refugee crisis? Of course not. Anything to accomplish geopolitical goals. It's not even a fucking conspiracy. Kissinger said so himself in his autobiography and his books, and he has even gone on the record admitting it.

    "The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes some time."

    Then you have the contras being armed by Reagan (lol) , the training camps in Jordan where Syrian rebels were trained.

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @German_reader
    Well you may be right, it was more of a hypothetical idea anyway. Maybe deterrence should be more personal...one always reads about those wealthy Gulf Arabs who go around funding all manner of Jihadist groups...maybe it would be good if some of them had unfortunate accidents.

    You’re assuming such people (and the jihadis they fund) are completely useless. On the contrary, they are extremely useful, precisely to the kind of people who create unfortunate accidents.

    Read More
    • Replies: @German_reader
    Well yes, I know what you're getting at, somehow the policies of the US and other Western states have had the effect of benefiting Islamists in the Mideast (and of course this has been going on for a long time).
    I'm not sure though if that's intended or just the result of massive stupidity (and possibly corruption) among Western elites.
    Anyway, back to the main topic: I understand the argument that it plays into the hands of the Islamists if tourism declines (and that's the intention behind those attacks)...but seriously, who's going to risk his own life and vacation in countries that can't ensure basic security? I certainly wouldn't. And you're not just at risk from Islamists...only a few weeks ago, Egyptian security forces shot some unlucky Mexican tourists because they mistook them for jihadis...
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Kamran
    2,000 years ago, a powerful European nation pulverized the holy house of a savage, wretched tribe of middle eastern herders. They left the people alive though, and allowed them to wander around, and some of the survivors even settled in Rome.


    2,000 years later, the descendants of those people have the highest IQ in the world, control major industries, and are responsible for a high percentage of human accomplishment much beyond their numbers.


    So take a lesson: You can't destroy people by destroying a bunch of stones.

    Well you may be right, it was more of a hypothetical idea anyway. Maybe deterrence should be more personal…one always reads about those wealthy Gulf Arabs who go around funding all manner of Jihadist groups…maybe it would be good if some of them had unfortunate accidents.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Kamran
    You're assuming such people (and the jihadis they fund) are completely useless. On the contrary, they are extremely useful, precisely to the kind of people who create unfortunate accidents.
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  • @German_reader
    I actually think that this would be a pretty good idea for a deterrence strategy against the Muslim world if Europeans weren't such stupid losers nowadays...if Muslims do anything existentially threatening towards Europe, Mecca will be pulverised. Of course it would have to be left unclear what exactly would be seen as an existential threat, and of course such a strategy could only be implemented after the necessary political preconditions in Europe have been created (so unfortunately this is very unlikely).

    2,000 years ago, a powerful European nation pulverized the holy house of a savage, wretched tribe of middle eastern herders. They left the people alive though, and allowed them to wander around, and some of the survivors even settled in Rome.

    2,000 years later, the descendants of those people have the highest IQ in the world, control major industries, and are responsible for a high percentage of human accomplishment much beyond their numbers.

    So take a lesson: You can’t destroy people by destroying a bunch of stones.

    Read More
    • Replies: @German_reader
    Well you may be right, it was more of a hypothetical idea anyway. Maybe deterrence should be more personal...one always reads about those wealthy Gulf Arabs who go around funding all manner of Jihadist groups...maybe it would be good if some of them had unfortunate accidents.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Kamran
    Just nuke the ka'aba and the muslim droids will shut down. I saw them do it in Star Wars. It's their command center.

    I actually think that this would be a pretty good idea for a deterrence strategy against the Muslim world if Europeans weren’t such stupid losers nowadays…if Muslims do anything existentially threatening towards Europe, Mecca will be pulverised. Of course it would have to be left unclear what exactly would be seen as an existential threat, and of course such a strategy could only be implemented after the necessary political preconditions in Europe have been created (so unfortunately this is very unlikely).

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    • Replies: @Kamran
    2,000 years ago, a powerful European nation pulverized the holy house of a savage, wretched tribe of middle eastern herders. They left the people alive though, and allowed them to wander around, and some of the survivors even settled in Rome.


    2,000 years later, the descendants of those people have the highest IQ in the world, control major industries, and are responsible for a high percentage of human accomplishment much beyond their numbers.


    So take a lesson: You can't destroy people by destroying a bunch of stones.
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  • @Kamran
    I think you're looking into this too much. There's a simple explanation: Euros are cucks.

    might be, but than the same holds true for Hindu Indians, Han Chinese, secular Muslims in muslim countries (especially nationalists in muslim countries), christian and other non-muslim Africans.

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    • Replies: @greysquirrell
    The Han Chinese are the exception ; they are winning against the Muslim Uighurs. The Han are slowly but surely and deliberately wiping out the Uighurs . The Chinese don't give a dam about PC,diversity,tolerance etc.. and will put down any major Muslim uprising with extreme prejudice , and Muslims know it.
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  • @Erik Sieven
    I do not think that this expansion is planned. It is rather the result of social institutions (especially political and military retention of any possible anti-muslim force) which seem to work quite similar around the globe

    I think you’re looking into this too much. There’s a simple explanation: Euros are cucks.

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    • Replies: @Erik Sieven
    might be, but than the same holds true for Hindu Indians, Han Chinese, secular Muslims in muslim countries (especially nationalists in muslim countries), christian and other non-muslim Africans.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Kamran
    Just nuke the ka'aba and the muslim droids will shut down. I saw them do it in Star Wars. It's their command center.

    I do not think that this expansion is planned. It is rather the result of social institutions (especially political and military retention of any possible anti-muslim force) which seem to work quite similar around the globe

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    • Replies: @Kamran
    I think you're looking into this too much. There's a simple explanation: Euros are cucks.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Erik Sieven
    raising the muslim share of the population in every major country (USA, Russia, China, India, Germany, France, UK) and a decreasing share of non-muslim population in muslim countries is a success. More mosques in Europe and at the same time less non-muslim temples, churches, etc. in muslim countries is a success. Increasing consideration of muslim interests in non-muslim countries and at the same time increasing marginalization of non-muslims in muslim countries is a success. And almost everywhere (both in muslim majority countries and in countries with a muslim minority) violence between muslims and non-muslims is a one-way street, which is another success.

    Just nuke the ka’aba and the muslim droids will shut down. I saw them do it in Star Wars. It’s their command center.

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    • Replies: @Erik Sieven
    I do not think that this expansion is planned. It is rather the result of social institutions (especially political and military retention of any possible anti-muslim force) which seem to work quite similar around the globe
    , @German_reader
    I actually think that this would be a pretty good idea for a deterrence strategy against the Muslim world if Europeans weren't such stupid losers nowadays...if Muslims do anything existentially threatening towards Europe, Mecca will be pulverised. Of course it would have to be left unclear what exactly would be seen as an existential threat, and of course such a strategy could only be implemented after the necessary political preconditions in Europe have been created (so unfortunately this is very unlikely).
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  • @Kamran
    "there have been nothing but muslim victories, thus it is the “strong horse”."

    Retarded. You seem to be very impressed by moronic islamist propaganda. Cutting of a few heads, posing with guns, acting tough =/= "strong"

    raising the muslim share of the population in every major country (USA, Russia, China, India, Germany, France, UK) and a decreasing share of non-muslim population in muslim countries is a success. More mosques in Europe and at the same time less non-muslim temples, churches, etc. in muslim countries is a success. Increasing consideration of muslim interests in non-muslim countries and at the same time increasing marginalization of non-muslims in muslim countries is a success. And almost everywhere (both in muslim majority countries and in countries with a muslim minority) violence between muslims and non-muslims is a one-way street, which is another success.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Kamran
    Just nuke the ka'aba and the muslim droids will shut down. I saw them do it in Star Wars. It's their command center.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Erik Sieven
    postponing is good. The problem with Islam in the last 30 years has been that there have been nothing but muslim victories, thus it is the "strong horse". Every country where Islam at least once does not immediately win is good for the future. Someday the muslim expansion - demographical, violent, ideological, territorial - has to stop, and somewhere this end of muslim expansion has to begin.

    “there have been nothing but muslim victories, thus it is the “strong horse”.”

    Retarded. You seem to be very impressed by moronic islamist propaganda. Cutting of a few heads, posing with guns, acting tough =/= “strong”

    Read More
    • Replies: @Erik Sieven
    raising the muslim share of the population in every major country (USA, Russia, China, India, Germany, France, UK) and a decreasing share of non-muslim population in muslim countries is a success. More mosques in Europe and at the same time less non-muslim temples, churches, etc. in muslim countries is a success. Increasing consideration of muslim interests in non-muslim countries and at the same time increasing marginalization of non-muslims in muslim countries is a success. And almost everywhere (both in muslim majority countries and in countries with a muslim minority) violence between muslims and non-muslims is a one-way street, which is another success.
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  • What choice is there? Anatoly is right the consequences are not good, but again, what choice is there?

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  • @lauris
    IMO the reality is a bit more complex. Sisi does not have any ideology or vision about solving Egypt's problems other than keeping himself and military in power by supressing the popular islamist will as long as he could. While this may seem good thing to humanitarian globalists it IMO only postpones the inevitable explosion.
    How desperate Sisi is can be seen from the fact that he is kept afloat by Saudi money and in return supports both Saudi war in Yemen and wahhabist parties against MB. All while supporting Assad's fight against the same wahhabists in Syria.
    It is the pacifism of MB that is keeping Egypt safe by containing wahhabism. If they lose the hearts and minds of the population I am pretty sure Sisi will not be able to contain the next incarnation of IS.

    postponing is good. The problem with Islam in the last 30 years has been that there have been nothing but muslim victories, thus it is the “strong horse”. Every country where Islam at least once does not immediately win is good for the future. Someday the muslim expansion – demographical, violent, ideological, territorial – has to stop, and somewhere this end of muslim expansion has to begin.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Kamran
    "there have been nothing but muslim victories, thus it is the “strong horse”."

    Retarded. You seem to be very impressed by moronic islamist propaganda. Cutting of a few heads, posing with guns, acting tough =/= "strong"

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Well was it wise for 70′s Russian tourists to keep visiting historical sites in Afghanistan even after whole parties were killed in various unpleasant ways?

    Egypt is run by the military and paid for by the US, which will just up its support for the generals the more trouble there is.

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  • @lauris
    IMO the reality is a bit more complex. Sisi does not have any ideology or vision about solving Egypt's problems other than keeping himself and military in power by supressing the popular islamist will as long as he could. While this may seem good thing to humanitarian globalists it IMO only postpones the inevitable explosion.
    How desperate Sisi is can be seen from the fact that he is kept afloat by Saudi money and in return supports both Saudi war in Yemen and wahhabist parties against MB. All while supporting Assad's fight against the same wahhabists in Syria.
    It is the pacifism of MB that is keeping Egypt safe by containing wahhabism. If they lose the hearts and minds of the population I am pretty sure Sisi will not be able to contain the next incarnation of IS.

    Unfortunately, that means the future looks very bleak for the Arabs in any Arab country. They themselves are low-IQ, low-trust and clannish, and their natural resources will run out after a while. It seems extremely smart move on the part of Europe to take as many of them as possible in, so that at least we can share their problems.

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    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • IMO the reality is a bit more complex. Sisi does not have any ideology or vision about solving Egypt’s problems other than keeping himself and military in power by supressing the popular islamist will as long as he could. While this may seem good thing to humanitarian globalists it IMO only postpones the inevitable explosion.
    How desperate Sisi is can be seen from the fact that he is kept afloat by Saudi money and in return supports both Saudi war in Yemen and wahhabist parties against MB. All while supporting Assad’s fight against the same wahhabists in Syria.
    It is the pacifism of MB that is keeping Egypt safe by containing wahhabism. If they lose the hearts and minds of the population I am pretty sure Sisi will not be able to contain the next incarnation of IS.

    Read More
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    Unfortunately, that means the future looks very bleak for the Arabs in any Arab country. They themselves are low-IQ, low-trust and clannish, and their natural resources will run out after a while. It seems extremely smart move on the part of Europe to take as many of them as possible in, so that at least we can share their problems.
    , @Erik Sieven
    postponing is good. The problem with Islam in the last 30 years has been that there have been nothing but muslim victories, thus it is the "strong horse". Every country where Islam at least once does not immediately win is good for the future. Someday the muslim expansion - demographical, violent, ideological, territorial - has to stop, and somewhere this end of muslim expansion has to begin.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Three and a half years ago, the world was riveted by the massive crowds of youths mobilizing in Cairo’s Tahrir Square to demand an end to Egypt’s dreary police state. We stared in horror as, at one point, the Interior Ministry mobilized camel drivers to attack the demonstrators. We watched transfixed as the protests spread...
  • Y. says:

    Prof. Cole is counting the chickens before there are even eggs. Removal of hereditary rule? Wait for the current rulers to have their shot (and that’s ignoring Syria, the Gulf, Jordan and Morocco where hereditary rule is doing fine for now). Term limits? Etc. Tolerance? It seems now there’s even more intolerance, even towards other Arabs of different sects (and Cole’s description of what was often ethnic cleansing or worse is very whitewashed).

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