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    Throughout my American Nations series (based on the books American Nations: A History of the Eleven Rival Regional Cultures of North America by Colin Woodard and Albion's Seed: Four British Folkways in America by David Hackett Fischer) I've talked about how North America is divided into distinct ethnocultural regions based on historic settlement patterns. These...
  • @Thomm
    It’s wrong and has to be stopped.

    So buying something at market price, while following all the laws, is wrong?

    This type of left-wing economic obstruction is ignorant. They have every right to buy these properties, doubly so if we are talking about 2nd gen, US born Asian Americans.

    If you aren't talented enough to earn the money to buy a house... well, guess what? You are the new negro..

    P.S. I’m not saying that I wouldn’t do it too, as the foreigner, if the foolish Americans allowed me. I’m saying it’s wrong FOR AMERICANS, which should be the number one determinant of our government’s laws and policies (ha).

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  • @Thomm
    This is about to change very soon, as a lot of the English Americans are older boomers, and Mexicans are drifting from the SouthWest into the Deep South. Many blacks are leaving Chicago and Detroit to return to Atlanta.

    Sadly, even the Deep South and the Great Plains are becoming substantially more Mexican.

    You’re right that the process is likely to accelerate as English-Americans and other white Americans have a higher average age than Mexicans in the USA — and, to exacerbate the problem, the English-American and other white Americans’ kids typically have a lower fertility rate than Mexicans in the USA as well (excepting the Mormons and the Amish, God bless them).

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  • @Art
    Political views are heritable with little effect of rearing or local environment.

    That is ridiculous – I have changed political sides in a day’s time – and then later changed back - and then changed back again.

    I assure that my genes did not change in a day.

    Peace --- Art

    But Art, you didn’t change your fundamental philosophy, values, priorities, or goals, in that time, right? You presumably changed your mind about how to implement that philosophy, advance those priorities, or achieve those goals better, faster, cheaper, with benefit to more people, etc.

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  • @kek
    I see some white guilt-ed zombies on college campuses are now wearing patches and badges to signify their race and tell other races how shameful they are to be privileged with so much including a higher IQ. Maybe soon they can have numbers tattooed on their forearms and march off to concentration camps to really make amends .

    At least it will help our kids know who to stay away from as potential friends or boy-girlfriends. See the self-hating patch or badge, move along quickly to someone else.

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  • @JayMan

    He should write about racial degeneracy from miscegenation.
     
    I have wrote about the degeneracy of White Nationalism:

    The Problem with HBD, the Dark Enlightenment, Neoreaction, Alt-Rightism, and All That Jazz

    Yes, but have you WRITTEN about it? Seriously, I enjoy your writing.

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  • @dc.sunsets
    As a reformed libertarian, I agree with you.

    There's a damn good reason Mexico has laws preventing foreigners from flying in and buying up all the prime real estate.

    America's love affair with global "capitalism" will come to a screeching halt when the trillions of dollars in IOU's exported under Dollar Hegemony come flooding back from Japan, China, et.al., and almost literally buy the continent of North America right out from under their feet.

    These past 50 years will someday occupy many scholars' lifetimes in study and debate, so astonishingly daffy were things that came to be seen as normal.

    The first among many is that things that make sense in a community of like people who share a common geography, culture and language can scale up to the "global" community (which is nothing of the sort.)

    As an aside, "scale down" explanations appear to work for me; "scale up" theories are often dangerously wrong, however.

    Reformed libertarian here as well, DCS.

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  • @Thomm
    Minnesota even resembles Scandinavia.

    As it should. This 'layering' of new people (as long as they are well-behaved and productive) is very fascinating and uniquely American in character.

    That is why the West Coast is so interesting. It has very few blacks, and only became part of America a decade before slavery ended anyway. But California is 14% Asian and since Asians have higher incomes than whites, they are the upper class. This is a very different dynamic and the old East Coast cannot relate.

    I’m from the East Coast and my wife is Asian. There is a disproportionately Asian upper class developing where I’m from, too, though not as drastically as in California, and you’re right that the difference was noticeable when we moved out here.

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  • @Thomm
    It’s wrong and has to be stopped.

    So buying something at market price, while following all the laws, is wrong?

    This type of left-wing economic obstruction is ignorant. They have every right to buy these properties, doubly so if we are talking about 2nd gen, US born Asian Americans.

    If you aren't talented enough to earn the money to buy a house... well, guess what? You are the new negro..

    I already own real estate, Thomm, just not in CA, and will likely be buying a home here in time as well.

    Someone who cannot readily afford a house suitable for a family of six people or so in the LA area — in a safe neighborhood with good schools and without a life-killing family-killing commute — is “the new negro” and “isn’t talented enough”? You need to spend more time here and meet some of the people who don’t appreciate competing with the top half a percent of the 2.6 billion people in China & India, which is disproportionately who is buying and renting in many locations, and driving prices up for the rest of us further than they would be already.

    Let’s put it this way, if you earn more than I do, then you are in the top 4-5% of individuals in the USA. Doesn’t sound like a lack of talent or marketable skills, Thomm.

    As for “left-wing” economic obstruction — great jargon, by the way — calling something left-wing doesn’t constitute an argument. Nor do I see many “left-wing” people giving a damn about the effect of out-of-control legal and illegal immigration on housing prices for Americans whose families have been here, staying out of trouble with the law, and working hard for generations (primarily European-Americans, though of course not entirely).

    As for those hypothetical second-generation Asian-Americans, a sounder policy would not have allowed their parents / grandparents into this country in the first place (except, of course, welcoming them temporarily for business, study, or tourism). Moreover, focusing on US-citizen purchasers from foreign backgrounds misses much of the picture. There are plenty of non-citizen foreigners, whether permanent residents or non-residents, who have been snapping up residential property here and elsewhere esp. along the West Coast. Some are our acquaintances and neighbors.

    You seem to mock fellow Americans who have trouble affording suitable family housing, or who resent the degree to which that cost is driven up by many millions of people who SHOULD. NOT. BE. HERE. Mock away, Thomm, tho I wouldn’t advise you to call me and mine “negros” in person if you stop by for a visit, big guy ;)

    It’s not “left-wing”, Thomm, to recognize that plenty of people can’t afford suitable housing at a halfway-reasonable price near enough to their jobs in places like LA and SF, and it isn’t because of lack of talent, lack of effort, and whatever other character defects you are arrogantly painting on us with a broad brush.

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  • @Mr Darcy
    Yes, it is the enormous number of "non-Tidewater" folk now living in the Tidewater (as employees of Uncle Scam in and around DC). They are outliers, but they now outnumber the real Tidewater population. This same thing is happening quicker and quicker now to the Deep South, too, as Yankee snowbirds invade and colonize for their retirement in a good climate. It promises even more--and deeper--divisions in society. In 1861, these nations were geographical. Next time, they won't be.

    The so-called Yankee snowbirds are dwarfed in number and negative political/social effects by the MILLIONS of Haitians, Puerto Ricans, Latin Americans, and Third Worlders that have settled in Florida.

    Compare a thousand Northern white Americans who retire to Florida, with a thousand foreign immigrants to Florida. Which group is more fiscally conservative or politically moderate/conservative? Which group is on balance more patriotic, more loyal to America and our traditional culture, language, rule of law, mores? Which group is more willing to help other actual core Americans?

    I know many people who have retired to FL from the “Tri-State Area” — NY, NJ, CT — and definitely are NOT politically left or white-hating / Western-culture-hating (“multicultural”).

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  • Continuing my on-going series on the regional differences – genetic regional differences – between the different Euro-Americans in the United States and Canada, here I will present a series of maps demonstrating some of the evidence for the existence and significance of these differences, beyond the historical circumstances explored by David Hackett Fischer (DHF) in...
  • […] Cultures of North America A Tentative Ranking of the Clannishness of the “Founding Fathers Maps of the American Nations Demography is Destiny, American Nations Edition Assortative migration patterns A Dialect Map of […]

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  • Throughout my American Nations series (based on the books American Nations: A History of the Eleven Rival Regional Cultures of North America by Colin Woodard and Albion's Seed: Four British Folkways in America by David Hackett Fischer) I've talked about how North America is divided into distinct ethnocultural regions based on historic settlement patterns. These...
  • @Norman Bates
    I am German-American and the "Yankee" imprint upon the Northern Midwest was wiped out by waves of Central and Eastern Europeans.

    Minnesota even resembles Scandinavia.

    Minnesota even resembles Scandinavia.

    As it should. This ‘layering’ of new people (as long as they are well-behaved and productive) is very fascinating and uniquely American in character.

    That is why the West Coast is so interesting. It has very few blacks, and only became part of America a decade before slavery ended anyway. But California is 14% Asian and since Asians have higher incomes than whites, they are the upper class. This is a very different dynamic and the old East Coast cannot relate.

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    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    I'm from the East Coast and my wife is Asian. There is a disproportionately Asian upper class developing where I'm from, too, though not as drastically as in California, and you're right that the difference was noticeable when we moved out here.
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  • @RadicalCenter
    Excellent point about America being bought out from under our feet.

    Many Americans who work hard and have good-paying jobs still cannot realistically afford much of the housing here in Los Angeles area, and not just downtown or near the ocean. Same with San Francisco.

    In both cases, wealthy Chinese immigrants, and sometimes their "American-born" descendants, are bidding apartments and condos and houses alike to levels that are beyond our reach even with careful budgeting and saving. It's wrong and has to be stopped.

    It’s wrong and has to be stopped.

    So buying something at market price, while following all the laws, is wrong?

    This type of left-wing economic obstruction is ignorant. They have every right to buy these properties, doubly so if we are talking about 2nd gen, US born Asian Americans.

    If you aren’t talented enough to earn the money to buy a house… well, guess what? You are the new negro..

    Read More
    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    I already own real estate, Thomm, just not in CA, and will likely be buying a home here in time as well.

    Someone who cannot readily afford a house suitable for a family of six people or so in the LA area -- in a safe neighborhood with good schools and without a life-killing family-killing commute -- is "the new negro" and "isn't talented enough"? You need to spend more time here and meet some of the people who don't appreciate competing with the top half a percent of the 2.6 billion people in China & India, which is disproportionately who is buying and renting in many locations, and driving prices up for the rest of us further than they would be already.

    Let's put it this way, if you earn more than I do, then you are in the top 4-5% of individuals in the USA. Doesn't sound like a lack of talent or marketable skills, Thomm.

    As for "left-wing" economic obstruction -- great jargon, by the way -- calling something left-wing doesn't constitute an argument. Nor do I see many "left-wing" people giving a damn about the effect of out-of-control legal and illegal immigration on housing prices for Americans whose families have been here, staying out of trouble with the law, and working hard for generations (primarily European-Americans, though of course not entirely).

    As for those hypothetical second-generation Asian-Americans, a sounder policy would not have allowed their parents / grandparents into this country in the first place (except, of course, welcoming them temporarily for business, study, or tourism). Moreover, focusing on US-citizen purchasers from foreign backgrounds misses much of the picture. There are plenty of non-citizen foreigners, whether permanent residents or non-residents, who have been snapping up residential property here and elsewhere esp. along the West Coast. Some are our acquaintances and neighbors.

    You seem to mock fellow Americans who have trouble affording suitable family housing, or who resent the degree to which that cost is driven up by many millions of people who SHOULD. NOT. BE. HERE. Mock away, Thomm, tho I wouldn't advise you to call me and mine "negros" in person if you stop by for a visit, big guy ;)

    It's not "left-wing", Thomm, to recognize that plenty of people can't afford suitable housing at a halfway-reasonable price near enough to their jobs in places like LA and SF, and it isn't because of lack of talent, lack of effort, and whatever other character defects you are arrogantly painting on us with a broad brush.

    , @RadicalCenter
    P.S. I'm not saying that I wouldn't do it too, as the foreigner, if the foolish Americans allowed me. I'm saying it's wrong FOR AMERICANS, which should be the number one determinant of our government's laws and policies (ha).
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  • @Anonymous

    This is especially true in the nations of the American South, where the colonial settlers received less subsequent migration and the original stock remains strong.
     
    Good point. The South seems to be the only original nation that still persists in a meaningful sense. You mostly encounter whites with British surnames and wholly or mostly British ancestry in the South or among Southern transplants. In most of the rest of the country, whites with British surnames and wholly or mostly British ancestry are much less common.

    This is about to change very soon, as a lot of the English Americans are older boomers, and Mexicans are drifting from the SouthWest into the Deep South. Many blacks are leaving Chicago and Detroit to return to Atlanta.

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    • Agree: RadicalCenter
    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    Sadly, even the Deep South and the Great Plains are becoming substantially more Mexican.

    You're right that the process is likely to accelerate as English-Americans and other white Americans have a higher average age than Mexicans in the USA -- and, to exacerbate the problem, the English-American and other white Americans' kids typically have a lower fertility rate than Mexicans in the USA as well (excepting the Mormons and the Amish, God bless them).

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  • I am German-American and the “Yankee” imprint upon the Northern Midwest was wiped out by waves of Central and Eastern Europeans.

    Minnesota even resembles Scandinavia.

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    • Replies: @Thomm
    Minnesota even resembles Scandinavia.

    As it should. This 'layering' of new people (as long as they are well-behaved and productive) is very fascinating and uniquely American in character.

    That is why the West Coast is so interesting. It has very few blacks, and only became part of America a decade before slavery ended anyway. But California is 14% Asian and since Asians have higher incomes than whites, they are the upper class. This is a very different dynamic and the old East Coast cannot relate.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @dc.sunsets
    As a reformed libertarian, I agree with you.

    There's a damn good reason Mexico has laws preventing foreigners from flying in and buying up all the prime real estate.

    America's love affair with global "capitalism" will come to a screeching halt when the trillions of dollars in IOU's exported under Dollar Hegemony come flooding back from Japan, China, et.al., and almost literally buy the continent of North America right out from under their feet.

    These past 50 years will someday occupy many scholars' lifetimes in study and debate, so astonishingly daffy were things that came to be seen as normal.

    The first among many is that things that make sense in a community of like people who share a common geography, culture and language can scale up to the "global" community (which is nothing of the sort.)

    As an aside, "scale down" explanations appear to work for me; "scale up" theories are often dangerously wrong, however.

    Excellent point about America being bought out from under our feet.

    Many Americans who work hard and have good-paying jobs still cannot realistically afford much of the housing here in Los Angeles area, and not just downtown or near the ocean. Same with San Francisco.

    In both cases, wealthy Chinese immigrants, and sometimes their “American-born” descendants, are bidding apartments and condos and houses alike to levels that are beyond our reach even with careful budgeting and saving. It’s wrong and has to be stopped.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Thomm
    It’s wrong and has to be stopped.

    So buying something at market price, while following all the laws, is wrong?

    This type of left-wing economic obstruction is ignorant. They have every right to buy these properties, doubly so if we are talking about 2nd gen, US born Asian Americans.

    If you aren't talented enough to earn the money to buy a house... well, guess what? You are the new negro..
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @hyperbola
    This is the thesis:

    "Previously I’ve established that these boundaries reflect genetic differences among different Americans in different places. This is because all human behavioral traits are heritable, with “nurture” (as it’s commonly thought of) playing a minimal to nonexistent role in each. This means that genetic differences between different peoples lead to differences in their behavioral traits, which, collectively, manifests as cultural differences."

    It seems that it is based on a very big, untested assumption. The existence of a correlation between "culture" and "genetics" does NOT prove "genetics determines culture". The thesis is based on migration of genetically different groups that were already culturally different. It is equally valid to claim "movement of cultures can be followed by those genetic differences that exist in different cultural/geographic areas". Your data/approach may be fundamentally incapable of distinguishing the two cases?

    It seems that it is based on a very big, untested assumption. The existence of a correlation between “culture” and “genetics” does NOT prove “genetics determines culture”.

    The persistence of cultural patterns as long as the population that embrace them remains.
    The lack of shared environmental effects in nationally representative behavioral genetic studies.
    The high heritability of behavioral traits from said studies.

    All do, though.

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  • This is the thesis:

    “Previously I’ve established that these boundaries reflect genetic differences among different Americans in different places. This is because all human behavioral traits are heritable, with “nurture” (as it’s commonly thought of) playing a minimal to nonexistent role in each. This means that genetic differences between different peoples lead to differences in their behavioral traits, which, collectively, manifests as cultural differences.”

    It seems that it is based on a very big, untested assumption. The existence of a correlation between “culture” and “genetics” does NOT prove “genetics determines culture”. The thesis is based on migration of genetically different groups that were already culturally different. It is equally valid to claim “movement of cultures can be followed by those genetic differences that exist in different cultural/geographic areas”. Your data/approach may be fundamentally incapable of distinguishing the two cases?

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    • Replies: @JayMan

    It seems that it is based on a very big, untested assumption. The existence of a correlation between “culture” and “genetics” does NOT prove “genetics determines culture”.
     
    The persistence of cultural patterns as long as the population that embrace them remains.
    The lack of shared environmental effects in nationally representative behavioral genetic studies.
    The high heritability of behavioral traits from said studies.

    All do, though.

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • […] were carved from a frontier that was north-south. But the frontier days are long gone. Look at http://www.unz.com/jman/the-genetics-of-the-american-nations/ . States that go more east-west are more likely to capture like-minded people. Additionally […]

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  • I have trouble with the genetic determinism bullshit, but I enjoy all the pretty maps. Before Woodard and Fisher there was Joel Garreau and his Nine Nations, which was more economic oriented and resembled Woodard’s map in the West but not in the East. Garreau justified and explained his boundaries. Woodard classifies every county in his maps and doesn’t explain why. So he makes egregious errors like putting San Bernardino County and the San Joaquin Valley in the Far West. Garreau put them in El Norte (MexAmerica) where they belong. I’m white (gavacho) but I identify as a non-Hispanic white OF El Norte. It’s part of my culture, my roots as a native of So Cal.

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  • @Zanon
    Hi

    Can you talk about Northern California. Who are the hippies?

    Hippies aren’t an ethnic group. Neither are hipsters.

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  • […] “While the original colonial ancestry of the country has been overrun by subsequent migrants, the founding stock remain as a genetic undercurrent – a common genetic thread – within each American nation. This is especially true in the nations of the American South, where the colonial settlers received less subsequent migration and the original stock remains strong.” http://www.unz.com/jman/the-genetics-of-the-american-nations/ […]

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  • My husband and I took a vacation in southern England last fall. He has ancestors who immigrated to Pennsylvania from Exeter in Devon. Clearly they did not all head for Virginia. What stood out to us was how much the people in Exeter looked like southerners in the United States. Especially the women. I half expected to hear a southern drawl but they were definitely English. Many reminded me of southern belles. In Bath, not so much.

    One thing was consistent in our drive across southern England in a rented Vauxhall. We got lost frequently, and every time a friendly and helpful English person would help us find our way. So it is no surprise that southerners are friendly. It is part of their culture.

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  • Excellent article.

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  • @M
    Your identification of "Borderlander" / "Puritan" / "Quaker" ancestry sources and the unscholarly annotation you have added seems highly arbitrary and do not reflect the distribution of high odds ratio sources within the British Isles in their original data. The main density of source dots for all the American clusters you've discussed is in about the same places within the British Isles.

    They will need more data from PoBI but this looks closer to you being wrong (hardly an unfamiliar experience for you) than being right.

    Your identification of “Borderlander” / “Puritan” / “Quaker” ancestry sources and the unscholarly annotation you have added seems highly arbitrary

    See David Hackett Fischer

    They will need more data from PoBI

    Here’s an idea: how about you supply better data and get back to me?

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  • @Skeptikal
    " In 50 years, this notion that everyone should be able to move anywhere and that immigration controls are somehow immoral will be a subject of ridicule,"

    Perhaps also subject to ridicule will be the idea that capital can go wherever it wants, but labor cannot . . .
    Should be subject to ridicule now. Not that I am a believer in "open borders."
    I am a believer in not letting capital roam wherever it wants all over the globe. But if that is to be the dispensation, then people must be able to follow it and work wherever they want and can get a job.

    As a reformed libertarian, I agree with you.

    There’s a damn good reason Mexico has laws preventing foreigners from flying in and buying up all the prime real estate.

    America’s love affair with global “capitalism” will come to a screeching halt when the trillions of dollars in IOU’s exported under Dollar Hegemony come flooding back from Japan, China, et.al., and almost literally buy the continent of North America right out from under their feet.

    These past 50 years will someday occupy many scholars’ lifetimes in study and debate, so astonishingly daffy were things that came to be seen as normal.

    The first among many is that things that make sense in a community of like people who share a common geography, culture and language can scale up to the “global” community (which is nothing of the sort.)

    As an aside, “scale down” explanations appear to work for me; “scale up” theories are often dangerously wrong, however.

    Read More
    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    Excellent point about America being bought out from under our feet.

    Many Americans who work hard and have good-paying jobs still cannot realistically afford much of the housing here in Los Angeles area, and not just downtown or near the ocean. Same with San Francisco.

    In both cases, wealthy Chinese immigrants, and sometimes their "American-born" descendants, are bidding apartments and condos and houses alike to levels that are beyond our reach even with careful budgeting and saving. It's wrong and has to be stopped.
    , @RadicalCenter
    Reformed libertarian here as well, DCS.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Your identification of “Borderlander” / “Puritan” / “Quaker” ancestry sources and the unscholarly annotation you have added seems highly arbitrary and do not reflect the distribution of high odds ratio sources within the British Isles in their original data. The main density of source dots for all the American clusters you’ve discussed is in about the same places within the British Isles.

    They will need more data from PoBI but this looks closer to you being wrong (hardly an unfamiliar experience for you) than being right.

    Read More
    • Replies: @JayMan

    Your identification of “Borderlander” / “Puritan” / “Quaker” ancestry sources and the unscholarly annotation you have added seems highly arbitrary
     
    See David Hackett Fischer

    They will need more data from PoBI
     
    Here's an idea: how about you supply better data and get back to me?
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  • @Father O'Hara
    No black in there?

    Not a bit. The only non white appears to be the Irish.

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  • @Geordie
    Mallory is an English name, mostly originating in Yorkshire.

    publicprofiler.org/Map.aspx?name=MALLORY&year=1881&altyear=1998&country=GB&type=name

    Yes, my ancestors spent centuries in Yorkshire. The English spelling originated in Yorkshire. But go back far enough and it is French/Norman.

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  • @Chris Mallory
    I have traced my ancestors back to Normandy in 102x AD , crossing the Channel in 1066. They stayed in Northern England till the 1630's when my paternal ancestor left Northenden, Cheshire moving to King William, Virginia. The next 150 years saw my ancestors move 70 miles west to Louisa County VA , then moving 600 miles to Simpson County Kentucky in the early 1800's.

    My Ancestry DNA showed 52% Europe West, 33% Great Britain, 13% Ireland, and 2% trace of West Asia. This is what Ancestry has to say about "trace regions" : "These are regions where you seem to have just a trace amount of genetic ethnicity — there is only a small amount of evidence supporting the regions as part of your genetic ethnicity. Because both the estimated amount and the range of the estimate are small, it is possible that these regions appear by chance and are not actually part of your genetic ethnicity."

    Mallory is an English name, mostly originating in Yorkshire.

    publicprofiler.org/Map.aspx?name=MALLORY&year=1881&altyear=1998&country=GB&type=name

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    • Replies: @Chris Mallory
    Yes, my ancestors spent centuries in Yorkshire. The English spelling originated in Yorkshire. But go back far enough and it is French/Norman.
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  • @Danubium
    This is quite revealing, not as much about the subject, but about the Murican's insatiable appetite for primitive, base and stupid ideas. Perhaps it is the influence of a salesman culture, that prioritizes the loud, obnoxious and easy to sell, that compels him to fetishize the genetic fallacy into a theory of everything.

    This is quite revealing, not as much about the subject, but about the Murican’s insatiable appetite for primitive, base and stupid ideas.

    What’s so stupid about it?

    It amazes me how the Unz.com commenters manage to deny what is plainly in front of their faces.

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  • This is quite revealing, not as much about the subject, but about the Murican’s insatiable appetite for primitive, base and stupid ideas. Perhaps it is the influence of a salesman culture, that prioritizes the loud, obnoxious and easy to sell, that compels him to fetishize the genetic fallacy into a theory of everything.

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    • Replies: @JayMan

    This is quite revealing, not as much about the subject, but about the Murican’s insatiable appetite for primitive, base and stupid ideas.
     
    What's so stupid about it?

    It amazes me how the Unz.com commenters manage to deny what is plainly in front of their faces.

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @kek
    Genetics and DNA rule not geography.

    Genetics and DNA rule not geography.

    It is all about the organization of energy.

    For a biological species to exist, it must find a niche within a physical geographic environment – period.

    The species will alter or reorganize the geographic environment by some degree – period.

    There are three organizing forces on our planet – physical forces, biological forces, and intellectual forces. One grows out of the other.

    Clearly the intellectual forces are boss. There are few molecules on the surface of the Earth that have not been affect by human intelligence.

    Today, the intellectual forces can destroy the current surface organization of the earth.

    Peace — Art

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  • @Art
    Doing better research you may learn about the importance of IQ and come to see it as THE most precious human gift

    Hmm - if you were in the Arctic and in need of help, who would chose to help you Newton or an average IQ Eskimo?

    It is true that IQ gains knowledge - but knowledge is king! Think about it.

    Peace --- Art

    Genetics and DNA rule not geography.

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    • Replies: @Art
    Genetics and DNA rule not geography.

    It is all about the organization of energy.

    For a biological species to exist, it must find a niche within a physical geographic environment - period.

    The species will alter or reorganize the geographic environment by some degree – period.

    There are three organizing forces on our planet – physical forces, biological forces, and intellectual forces. One grows out of the other.

    Clearly the intellectual forces are boss. There are few molecules on the surface of the Earth that have not been affect by human intelligence.

    Today, the intellectual forces can destroy the current surface organization of the earth.

    Peace --- Art
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Chris Mallory
    I have traced my ancestors back to Normandy in 102x AD , crossing the Channel in 1066. They stayed in Northern England till the 1630's when my paternal ancestor left Northenden, Cheshire moving to King William, Virginia. The next 150 years saw my ancestors move 70 miles west to Louisa County VA , then moving 600 miles to Simpson County Kentucky in the early 1800's.

    My Ancestry DNA showed 52% Europe West, 33% Great Britain, 13% Ireland, and 2% trace of West Asia. This is what Ancestry has to say about "trace regions" : "These are regions where you seem to have just a trace amount of genetic ethnicity — there is only a small amount of evidence supporting the regions as part of your genetic ethnicity. Because both the estimated amount and the range of the estimate are small, it is possible that these regions appear by chance and are not actually part of your genetic ethnicity."

    No black in there?

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    • LOL: Hibernian
    • Replies: @Chris Mallory
    Not a bit. The only non white appears to be the Irish.
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  • @Skeptikal
    " In 50 years, this notion that everyone should be able to move anywhere and that immigration controls are somehow immoral will be a subject of ridicule,"

    Perhaps also subject to ridicule will be the idea that capital can go wherever it wants, but labor cannot . . .
    Should be subject to ridicule now. Not that I am a believer in "open borders."
    I am a believer in not letting capital roam wherever it wants all over the globe. But if that is to be the dispensation, then people must be able to follow it and work wherever they want and can get a job.

    I am a believer in not letting capital roam wherever it wants

    Would that be your capital or someone else’s?

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  • @Wizard of Oz
    Excuse me just getting back from lunch and firing this off but my immediate thought was to try and find some comparable situations wherein to consider the relative importance og genes.

    Religion is an obvious one. I have heard it suggested that about 15 per cent of people (but you might well say "which people, by descent?") Just lack the god genes and aren't believers. But for the rest what determines which unprovable lot of religious stuff do they adhere to and why?

    In India one would undoubtedly find a remarkable similarity of genes amongst different castes but you might say that was not significant because they were all Hindus. So... move the argument to the Muslims and Christians who have also probably been connected genetically by reason of their having been low caste people who wanted something better. Then look at communities where they all had plenty of exposure to Muslim and Christian proselytisers but some resisted conversion. After allowing for age differences and other practical matters why was it so?

    Don't worry about me ever becoming blank slatish. One of our lunch guests had just travelled premium economy class from England in two legs (12500 miles via Abu Dhabi), walked in from his daughter's car and made perfectly good sense in conversation without hearing aids. He is 102 (with a sister going strong at 98).

    Religion is an obvious one. I have heard it suggested that about 15 per cent of people (but you might well say “which people, by descent?”) Just lack the god genes and aren’t believers. But for the rest what determines which unprovable lot of religious stuff do they adhere to and why?

    The Atheist Narrative

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    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Art
    Political views are heritable with little effect of rearing or local environment.

    That is ridiculous – I have changed political sides in a day’s time – and then later changed back - and then changed back again.

    I assure that my genes did not change in a day.

    Peace --- Art

    That is ridiculous – I have changed political sides in a day’s time – and then later changed back – and then changed back again.

    I assure that my genes did not change in a day.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @JayMan

    Easy to imagine a kid becoming an authoritarian (or maybe bleeding heart if his genes helped that) Democrat in reaction to authoritarian active Republican Dad.
     
    The point of the behavioral genetic chart above was to show that that generally doesn't happen. Political views are heritable with little effect of rearing or local environment.

    Excuse me just getting back from lunch and firing this off but my immediate thought was to try and find some comparable situations wherein to consider the relative importance og genes.

    Religion is an obvious one. I have heard it suggested that about 15 per cent of people (but you might well say “which people, by descent?”) Just lack the god genes and aren’t believers. But for the rest what determines which unprovable lot of religious stuff do they adhere to and why?

    In India one would undoubtedly find a remarkable similarity of genes amongst different castes but you might say that was not significant because they were all Hindus. So… move the argument to the Muslims and Christians who have also probably been connected genetically by reason of their having been low caste people who wanted something better. Then look at communities where they all had plenty of exposure to Muslim and Christian proselytisers but some resisted conversion. After allowing for age differences and other practical matters why was it so?

    Don’t worry about me ever becoming blank slatish. One of our lunch guests had just travelled premium economy class from England in two legs (12500 miles via Abu Dhabi), walked in from his daughter’s car and made perfectly good sense in conversation without hearing aids. He is 102 (with a sister going strong at 98).

    Read More
    • Replies: @JayMan

    Religion is an obvious one. I have heard it suggested that about 15 per cent of people (but you might well say “which people, by descent?”) Just lack the god genes and aren’t believers. But for the rest what determines which unprovable lot of religious stuff do they adhere to and why?
     
    The Atheist Narrative
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @JayMan

    Easy to imagine a kid becoming an authoritarian (or maybe bleeding heart if his genes helped that) Democrat in reaction to authoritarian active Republican Dad.
     
    The point of the behavioral genetic chart above was to show that that generally doesn't happen. Political views are heritable with little effect of rearing or local environment.

    Political views are heritable with little effect of rearing or local environment.

    That is ridiculous – I have changed political sides in a day’s time – and then later changed back – and then changed back again.

    I assure that my genes did not change in a day.

    Peace — Art

    Read More
    • Replies: @JayMan

    That is ridiculous – I have changed political sides in a day’s time – and then later changed back – and then changed back again.

    I assure that my genes did not change in a day.
     

    https://twitter.com/JayMan471/status/477602473608486912
    , @RadicalCenter
    But Art, you didn't change your fundamental philosophy, values, priorities, or goals, in that time, right? You presumably changed your mind about how to implement that philosophy, advance those priorities, or achieve those goals better, faster, cheaper, with benefit to more people, etc.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @kek
    The study of genetics and especially IQ takes some digging due to being repressed for many years partially for fear of offending those to the left of the mean and other reasons as well. I 'm not sure how to say this so I'll just come right out and say it. Your comments are totally incorrect and stink to high heaven. Doing better research you may learn about the importance of IQ and come to see it as THE most precious human gift vs some controversial and subject to be trivialized and explained away.

    Doing better research you may learn about the importance of IQ and come to see it as THE most precious human gift

    Hmm – if you were in the Arctic and in need of help, who would chose to help you Newton or an average IQ Eskimo?

    It is true that IQ gains knowledge – but knowledge is king! Think about it.

    Peace — Art

    Read More
    • Replies: @kek
    Genetics and DNA rule not geography.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @JayMan

    I am kind of surprised by Jay Man’s response to my post. Also, I see no mention in his piece of epigenetics. I don’t know how one can discuss the genetic basis of behavior without referring to epigenetics.
     
    Quite easily. See here:

    https://youtu.be/w3310KWlDXg

    I guess I need to add a disclaimer in my posts noting that transgenerational epigenetics is a bunch of hot air.


    In short, what is really the point of all of this?
     
    Heredity is powerful.

    I wonder if there is a gene for obnoxiousness!

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Wizard of Oz
    Well I'm not fresh uncultivated ground for these arguments because of early acqusintance with Eysenck but I wonder if the data makes sufficient distinction between e.g. the kind of Republican or Democrat - or rebel against parents - that may prevail geographically. Easy to imagine a kid becoming an authoritarian (or maybe bleeding heart if his genes helped that) Democrat in reaction to authoritarian active Republican Dad. But equally he might become a liberal Republican and not be noticed in the gross data.

    Easy to imagine a kid becoming an authoritarian (or maybe bleeding heart if his genes helped that) Democrat in reaction to authoritarian active Republican Dad.

    The point of the behavioral genetic chart above was to show that that generally doesn’t happen. Political views are heritable with little effect of rearing or local environment.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art
    Political views are heritable with little effect of rearing or local environment.

    That is ridiculous – I have changed political sides in a day’s time – and then later changed back - and then changed back again.

    I assure that my genes did not change in a day.

    Peace --- Art

    , @Wizard of Oz
    Excuse me just getting back from lunch and firing this off but my immediate thought was to try and find some comparable situations wherein to consider the relative importance og genes.

    Religion is an obvious one. I have heard it suggested that about 15 per cent of people (but you might well say "which people, by descent?") Just lack the god genes and aren't believers. But for the rest what determines which unprovable lot of religious stuff do they adhere to and why?

    In India one would undoubtedly find a remarkable similarity of genes amongst different castes but you might say that was not significant because they were all Hindus. So... move the argument to the Muslims and Christians who have also probably been connected genetically by reason of their having been low caste people who wanted something better. Then look at communities where they all had plenty of exposure to Muslim and Christian proselytisers but some resisted conversion. After allowing for age differences and other practical matters why was it so?

    Don't worry about me ever becoming blank slatish. One of our lunch guests had just travelled premium economy class from England in two legs (12500 miles via Abu Dhabi), walked in from his daughter's car and made perfectly good sense in conversation without hearing aids. He is 102 (with a sister going strong at 98).

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Skeptikal
    "Add"?
    That's funny.
    Garreau's book published in 1981.
    AFAIK he was the first to bring this type of analysis to a popular audience. He wasn't obsessed with genetics as the basis of bahavior, however. His was really the seminal work.
    See: http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2014/07/03/where-do-borders-need-to-be-redrawn/nine-nations-of-north-america-30-years-later

    Hackett Fischer, in Albion's Seed, published in 1989, also not obsessed with genetics. The principle idea underlying Fischer's work is the longevity of *cultural forms* and values. As is Garreau's. Not the genetic basis of behavior.
    American Nations, published in 2011. Doubtless the idea for the book was sparked by Garreau, although Woodard doesn't acknowledge the existence of the prev. work.
    From Wall Srreet Journal review:
    “Mr. Woodard’s approach is breezier than [David Hackett] Fischer’s and more historical than [Joel] Garreau’s, but he has earned a place on the shelf between them." Note: "between them."

    I am kind of surprised by Jay Man's response to my post. Also, I see no mention in his piece of epigenetics. I don't know how one can discuss the genetic basis of behavior without referring to epigenetics.

    In short, what is really the point of all of this?

    I am kind of surprised by Jay Man’s response to my post. Also, I see no mention in his piece of epigenetics. I don’t know how one can discuss the genetic basis of behavior without referring to epigenetics.

    Quite easily. See here:

    I guess I need to add a disclaimer in my posts noting that transgenerational epigenetics is a bunch of hot air.

    In short, what is really the point of all of this?

    Heredity is powerful.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Skeptikal
    I wonder if there is a gene for obnoxiousness!
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Art
    Sorry, but I just cannot buy all this. My being a Democrat or Republican has more to do with my family’s culture then with their genetics. We are not genetic automatons.

    Yes clearly, genetics dominate human emotions and the capacity to think – but not what we think. Culture dominates - not genetics.

    Community think (tied to geography) dominates outcomes more than anything else. Geography has more to do with genetic selection and intellectual thinking than any other factor.

    Biological genetic evolution is about finding and building a safe place within a geometric location.

    If one were to move to the Arctic – one’s offspring would eventually evolve to become an Eskimo.

    Peace --- Art

    The study of genetics and especially IQ takes some digging due to being repressed for many years partially for fear of offending those to the left of the mean and other reasons as well. I ‘m not sure how to say this so I’ll just come right out and say it. Your comments are totally incorrect and stink to high heaven. Doing better research you may learn about the importance of IQ and come to see it as THE most precious human gift vs some controversial and subject to be trivialized and explained away.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art
    Doing better research you may learn about the importance of IQ and come to see it as THE most precious human gift

    Hmm - if you were in the Arctic and in need of help, who would chose to help you Newton or an average IQ Eskimo?

    It is true that IQ gains knowledge - but knowledge is king! Think about it.

    Peace --- Art

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • I see some white guilt-ed zombies on college campuses are now wearing patches and badges to signify their race and tell other races how shameful they are to be privileged with so much including a higher IQ. Maybe soon they can have numbers tattooed on their forearms and march off to concentration camps to really make amends .

    Read More
    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    At least it will help our kids know who to stay away from as potential friends or boy-girlfriends. See the self-hating patch or badge, move along quickly to someone else.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @JayMan

    you exaggerate the importance of genes in relation to America’s regional populations (not including the notorious 1 sd difference even if it is fundamentally more like 0.5).
     
    See the preceding reply to Art.

    Well I’m not fresh uncultivated ground for these arguments because of early acqusintance with Eysenck but I wonder if the data makes sufficient distinction between e.g. the kind of Republican or Democrat – or rebel against parents – that may prevail geographically. Easy to imagine a kid becoming an authoritarian (or maybe bleeding heart if his genes helped that) Democrat in reaction to authoritarian active Republican Dad. But equally he might become a liberal Republican and not be noticed in the gross data.

    Read More
    • Replies: @JayMan

    Easy to imagine a kid becoming an authoritarian (or maybe bleeding heart if his genes helped that) Democrat in reaction to authoritarian active Republican Dad.
     
    The point of the behavioral genetic chart above was to show that that generally doesn't happen. Political views are heritable with little effect of rearing or local environment.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Zanon
    Hi

    Can you talk about Northern California. Who are the hippies?

    Can you talk about Northern California. Who are the hippies?

    1968+ Counter Cultural White Fashionistas, often led by Jews. Have spent decades competing with each other to smash up 1950′s American society, and now that it’s smashed up they still expect their pensions.

    Physical description: More into drugs than sport, straggly long grey hair, faded blue jeans, often sandals, general tatty appearance.

    Music: Neil Young (although recently confused by his opposition to the Iraq war)

    Food: Organic/vegetarian

    Politics: Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, open borders, affirmative action, Howard Zinn, free everything (trade, sex, drugs, open marriage, toilet access, outsourcing etc.). Couldn’t care less about WMD & 9/11 lies, destruction of Middle East (they’re only programmed to attack Anglo society).

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @JayMan

    But am surprised that Jay Man ignores the contribution to this area of study by Joel Garreau
     
    Garreau doesn't really add much to the story.

    “Add”?
    That’s funny.
    Garreau’s book published in 1981.
    AFAIK he was the first to bring this type of analysis to a popular audience. He wasn’t obsessed with genetics as the basis of bahavior, however. His was really the seminal work.
    See: http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2014/07/03/where-do-borders-need-to-be-redrawn/nine-nations-of-north-america-30-years-later

    Hackett Fischer, in Albion’s Seed, published in 1989, also not obsessed with genetics. The principle idea underlying Fischer’s work is the longevity of *cultural forms* and values. As is Garreau’s. Not the genetic basis of behavior.
    American Nations, published in 2011. Doubtless the idea for the book was sparked by Garreau, although Woodard doesn’t acknowledge the existence of the prev. work.
    From Wall Srreet Journal review:
    “Mr. Woodard’s approach is breezier than [David Hackett] Fischer’s and more historical than [Joel] Garreau’s, but he has earned a place on the shelf between them.” Note: “between them.”

    I am kind of surprised by Jay Man’s response to my post. Also, I see no mention in his piece of epigenetics. I don’t know how one can discuss the genetic basis of behavior without referring to epigenetics.

    In short, what is really the point of all of this?

    Read More
    • Replies: @JayMan

    I am kind of surprised by Jay Man’s response to my post. Also, I see no mention in his piece of epigenetics. I don’t know how one can discuss the genetic basis of behavior without referring to epigenetics.
     
    Quite easily. See here:

    https://youtu.be/w3310KWlDXg

    I guess I need to add a disclaimer in my posts noting that transgenerational epigenetics is a bunch of hot air.


    In short, what is really the point of all of this?
     
    Heredity is powerful.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Wizard of Oz
    Would you care to explain how the "snowbirds" and people planning retirement in warmer climates threaten more and deeper divisions in society of a kind that matter? In Australia it is suggested that rich Chinese are contributing to the unaffordability of housing for the young but, even apart from that not having much truth in it, that sort problem can hardly be the case in the US south.

    Would you care to explain how the “snowbirds” and people planning retirement in warmer climates threaten more and deeper divisions in society of a kind that matter?

    That’s easy to explain. Imagine your roadways being overrun by hordes of 70-somethings driving RVs and Crown Vics towing campers, all having no clue where they are going, being half blind, with the reaction time of snails, and being certain that they are the only people in the region who know how to drive. That’s worth having another civil war over all by itself.

    Seriously, these people are a pain in the ass. All they do is bitch and moan and complain that things aren’t done the way they are wherever they are from. Transplants to the South are generally a pain in the ass. I don’t know how much harm they are doing, but they don’t help much.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Oh Brother
    It is a comment worthy of the content of this essay. If there were more than empty supposition, there might be something worth commenting about. I swear, such articles here just aren't that good.

    It is a comment worthy of the content of this essay.

    Then make your case against it. You don’t have a lot of room to make it, so good luck.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Wizard of Oz
    I suspect the answer is that Cordelia Fine exaggerates the extent to which plasticity is ever likely to be able to eradicate differences between men and women and that you exaggerate the importance of genes in relation to America's regional populations (not including the notorious 1 sd difference even if it is fundamentally more like 0.5).

    Over to you who know far more evidentiary facts than I.

    you exaggerate the importance of genes in relation to America’s regional populations (not including the notorious 1 sd difference even if it is fundamentally more like 0.5).

    See the preceding reply to Art.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    Well I'm not fresh uncultivated ground for these arguments because of early acqusintance with Eysenck but I wonder if the data makes sufficient distinction between e.g. the kind of Republican or Democrat - or rebel against parents - that may prevail geographically. Easy to imagine a kid becoming an authoritarian (or maybe bleeding heart if his genes helped that) Democrat in reaction to authoritarian active Republican Dad. But equally he might become a liberal Republican and not be noticed in the gross data.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Art
    Sorry, but I just cannot buy all this. My being a Democrat or Republican has more to do with my family’s culture then with their genetics. We are not genetic automatons.

    Yes clearly, genetics dominate human emotions and the capacity to think – but not what we think. Culture dominates - not genetics.

    Community think (tied to geography) dominates outcomes more than anything else. Geography has more to do with genetic selection and intellectual thinking than any other factor.

    Biological genetic evolution is about finding and building a safe place within a geometric location.

    If one were to move to the Arctic – one’s offspring would eventually evolve to become an Eskimo.

    Peace --- Art

    Sorry, but I just cannot buy all this. My being a Democrat or Republican has more to do with my family’s culture then with their genetics. We are not genetic automatons.

    Yes clearly, genetics dominate human emotions and the capacity to think – but not what we think. Culture dominates – not genetics.

    From the previous American nations piece:

    None of this should be surprising, since we know that political views are highly heritable (from Hatemi et al, 2010):

    There is minimal effect of “the environment” within cohorts (and the differences between cohorts is likely primarily situational). The way people vote is a reflection of who and indeed what they are. It has nothing to do with how they were raised by their parents, where they grew up, or where they live now (except to the extent current self-interest is involved). (See also The Behavioral Genetics Page, particularly the post The Son Becomes The Father.) To understand that vote, you must understand the people.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Skeptikal
    I love both Woodard's work and Albion's Seed.
    Great books.
    But am surprised that Jay Man ignores the contribution to this area of study by Joel Garreau, Nine Nations of North America (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Nine_Nations_of_North_America), published way back in 1981.
    Woodard's American Nations presents a better historical overview and analysis (in particular his spotlighting of the true underlying theme of the Civil War as a fight for the American West was a brilliant eye opener for me; also his linking of the different strains of racism within the South, depending on origin of the whites involved), but Garreau goes more into the cultural strains and also doesn't stop at the border of the USA.

    But am surprised that Jay Man ignores the contribution to this area of study by Joel Garreau

    Garreau doesn’t really add much to the story.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Skeptikal
    "Add"?
    That's funny.
    Garreau's book published in 1981.
    AFAIK he was the first to bring this type of analysis to a popular audience. He wasn't obsessed with genetics as the basis of bahavior, however. His was really the seminal work.
    See: http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2014/07/03/where-do-borders-need-to-be-redrawn/nine-nations-of-north-america-30-years-later

    Hackett Fischer, in Albion's Seed, published in 1989, also not obsessed with genetics. The principle idea underlying Fischer's work is the longevity of *cultural forms* and values. As is Garreau's. Not the genetic basis of behavior.
    American Nations, published in 2011. Doubtless the idea for the book was sparked by Garreau, although Woodard doesn't acknowledge the existence of the prev. work.
    From Wall Srreet Journal review:
    “Mr. Woodard’s approach is breezier than [David Hackett] Fischer’s and more historical than [Joel] Garreau’s, but he has earned a place on the shelf between them." Note: "between them."

    I am kind of surprised by Jay Man's response to my post. Also, I see no mention in his piece of epigenetics. I don't know how one can discuss the genetic basis of behavior without referring to epigenetics.

    In short, what is really the point of all of this?
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @LondonBob
    I think the 2016 election was the first that regional differences began to be negated by racial differences.

    I think the 2016 election was the first that regional differences began to be negated by racial differences.

    Regional differences were present if a bit less pronounced compared to previous elections. See Woodard’s piece linked in post.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @LondonBob
    I think the 2016 election was the first that regional differences began to be negated by racial differences.

    I think the 2016 election was the first that regional differences began to be negated by racial differences.

    Regional differences were present if a bit less pronounced compared to previous elections. See Woodard’s piece linked in post.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @attilathehen
    Jayman is a black married to a white woman. He has kids with her. He should write about racial degeneracy from miscegenation.

    He should write about racial degeneracy from miscegenation.

    I have wrote about the degeneracy of White Nationalism:

    The Problem with HBD, the Dark Enlightenment, Neoreaction, Alt-Rightism, and All That Jazz

    Read More
    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    Yes, but have you WRITTEN about it? Seriously, I enjoy your writing.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @JayMan

    Such nonsense. Haven’t read such bullshit
     
    I swear the commenters here just aren't that good.

    It is a comment worthy of the content of this essay. If there were more than empty supposition, there might be something worth commenting about. I swear, such articles here just aren’t that good.

    Read More
    • Replies: @JayMan

    It is a comment worthy of the content of this essay.
     
    Then make your case against it. You don't have a lot of room to make it, so good luck.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Zanon
    Hi

    Can you talk about Northern California. Who are the hippies?

    They all grew up and are now retired grandparents making plans for nursing homes.

    They were a combination of old Californians with British names and revolutionary New York Jews with CPUSA parents

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Hibernian
    The Midlands west of the Alleghenies are as much or more a buffer between New England and Southern influenced areas than an extension of Pennsylvania. Try driving down the road on I-65 from Gary to Indianapolis or on I-55 from Joliet to Springfield.

    Edit: mistake

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @dc.sunsets
    Is it not amazing to see how sentiments change? Forty years ago people were freaked out about overpopulation and any hint of a smaller census would have been celebrated.

    Now, talk of lower fertility rates are seen as a crisis. We're told that Japan isn't replacing its population, the horrors!

    So much of everything is One Fad After Another. In 50 years, this notion that everyone should be able to move anywhere and that immigration controls are somehow immoral will be a subject of ridicule, and depending on how chaotic and painful are the next decade or two, the leading lights of Open Borders may be regarded by history with disgust now mostly reserved for the likes of Pol Pot.

    ” In 50 years, this notion that everyone should be able to move anywhere and that immigration controls are somehow immoral will be a subject of ridicule,”

    Perhaps also subject to ridicule will be the idea that capital can go wherever it wants, but labor cannot . . .
    Should be subject to ridicule now. Not that I am a believer in “open borders.”
    I am a believer in not letting capital roam wherever it wants all over the globe. But if that is to be the dispensation, then people must be able to follow it and work wherever they want and can get a job.

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    I am a believer in not letting capital roam wherever it wants

    Would that be your capital or someone else's?
    , @dc.sunsets
    As a reformed libertarian, I agree with you.

    There's a damn good reason Mexico has laws preventing foreigners from flying in and buying up all the prime real estate.

    America's love affair with global "capitalism" will come to a screeching halt when the trillions of dollars in IOU's exported under Dollar Hegemony come flooding back from Japan, China, et.al., and almost literally buy the continent of North America right out from under their feet.

    These past 50 years will someday occupy many scholars' lifetimes in study and debate, so astonishingly daffy were things that came to be seen as normal.

    The first among many is that things that make sense in a community of like people who share a common geography, culture and language can scale up to the "global" community (which is nothing of the sort.)

    As an aside, "scale down" explanations appear to work for me; "scale up" theories are often dangerously wrong, however.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Mr Darcy
    Yes, it is the enormous number of "non-Tidewater" folk now living in the Tidewater (as employees of Uncle Scam in and around DC). They are outliers, but they now outnumber the real Tidewater population. This same thing is happening quicker and quicker now to the Deep South, too, as Yankee snowbirds invade and colonize for their retirement in a good climate. It promises even more--and deeper--divisions in society. In 1861, these nations were geographical. Next time, they won't be.

    Would you care to explain how the “snowbirds” and people planning retirement in warmer climates threaten more and deeper divisions in society of a kind that matter? In Australia it is suggested that rich Chinese are contributing to the unaffordability of housing for the young but, even apart from that not having much truth in it, that sort problem can hardly be the case in the US south.

    Read More
    • Replies: @OilcanFloyd
    Would you care to explain how the “snowbirds” and people planning retirement in warmer climates threaten more and deeper divisions in society of a kind that matter?

    That's easy to explain. Imagine your roadways being overrun by hordes of 70-somethings driving RVs and Crown Vics towing campers, all having no clue where they are going, being half blind, with the reaction time of snails, and being certain that they are the only people in the region who know how to drive. That's worth having another civil war over all by itself.

    Seriously, these people are a pain in the ass. All they do is bitch and moan and complain that things aren't done the way they are wherever they are from. Transplants to the South are generally a pain in the ass. I don't know how much harm they are doing, but they don't help much.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @JayMan

    Fair comment – in theory? And is he inference borne out by facts?
     
    What do you think?

    I suspect the answer is that Cordelia Fine exaggerates the extent to which plasticity is ever likely to be able to eradicate differences between men and women and that you exaggerate the importance of genes in relation to America’s regional populations (not including the notorious 1 sd difference even if it is fundamentally more like 0.5).

    Over to you who know far more evidentiary facts than I.

    Read More
    • Replies: @JayMan

    you exaggerate the importance of genes in relation to America’s regional populations (not including the notorious 1 sd difference even if it is fundamentally more like 0.5).
     
    See the preceding reply to Art.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Sorry, but I just cannot buy all this. My being a Democrat or Republican has more to do with my family’s culture then with their genetics. We are not genetic automatons.

    Yes clearly, genetics dominate human emotions and the capacity to think – but not what we think. Culture dominates – not genetics.

    Community think (tied to geography) dominates outcomes more than anything else. Geography has more to do with genetic selection and intellectual thinking than any other factor.

    Biological genetic evolution is about finding and building a safe place within a geometric location.

    If one were to move to the Arctic – one’s offspring would eventually evolve to become an Eskimo.

    Peace — Art

    Read More
    • Replies: @JayMan

    Sorry, but I just cannot buy all this. My being a Democrat or Republican has more to do with my family’s culture then with their genetics. We are not genetic automatons.

    Yes clearly, genetics dominate human emotions and the capacity to think – but not what we think. Culture dominates – not genetics.
     
    From the previous American nations piece:

    None of this should be surprising, since we know that political views are highly heritable (from Hatemi et al, 2010):



    https://twitter.com/jayman471/status/593924778341326849

    There is minimal effect of "the environment" within cohorts (and the differences between cohorts is likely primarily situational). The way people vote is a reflection of who and indeed what they are. It has nothing to do with how they were raised by their parents, where they grew up, or where they live now (except to the extent current self-interest is involved). (See also The Behavioral Genetics Page, particularly the post The Son Becomes The Father.) To understand that vote, you must understand the people.
     
    , @kek
    The study of genetics and especially IQ takes some digging due to being repressed for many years partially for fear of offending those to the left of the mean and other reasons as well. I 'm not sure how to say this so I'll just come right out and say it. Your comments are totally incorrect and stink to high heaven. Doing better research you may learn about the importance of IQ and come to see it as THE most precious human gift vs some controversial and subject to be trivialized and explained away.
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  • I love both Woodard’s work and Albion’s Seed.
    Great books.
    But am surprised that Jay Man ignores the contribution to this area of study by Joel Garreau, Nine Nations of North America (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Nine_Nations_of_North_America), published way back in 1981.
    Woodard’s American Nations presents a better historical overview and analysis (in particular his spotlighting of the true underlying theme of the Civil War as a fight for the American West was a brilliant eye opener for me; also his linking of the different strains of racism within the South, depending on origin of the whites involved), but Garreau goes more into the cultural strains and also doesn’t stop at the border of the USA.

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    • Replies: @JayMan

    But am surprised that Jay Man ignores the contribution to this area of study by Joel Garreau
     
    Garreau doesn't really add much to the story.
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  • I think the 2016 election was the first that regional differences began to be negated by racial differences.

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    • Replies: @JayMan

    I think the 2016 election was the first that regional differences began to be negated by racial differences.
     
    Regional differences were present if a bit less pronounced compared to previous elections. See Woodard's piece linked in post.
    , @JayMan

    I think the 2016 election was the first that regional differences began to be negated by racial differences.
     
    Regional differences were present if a bit less pronounced compared to previous elections. See Woodard's piece linked in post.
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  • Jayman is a black married to a white woman. He has kids with her. He should write about racial degeneracy from miscegenation.

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    • Troll: Whoever
    • Replies: @JayMan

    He should write about racial degeneracy from miscegenation.
     
    I have wrote about the degeneracy of White Nationalism:

    The Problem with HBD, the Dark Enlightenment, Neoreaction, Alt-Rightism, and All That Jazz

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  • @OhBrother!
    Such nonsense. Haven't read such bullshit since the many diatribes against the Gaels in Scotland as lazy, worthless genetic stock and the pronouncement that a mystical Ukrainian progenitor race really is the master race.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacksman

    The commercialisation of clan landholding led to the Highlands being denuded of the Tacksmen class, many of who emigrated. to America So the remnants were probably not very impressive. The Highlands were the most lawless and violent part of Britain, and the Tacksmen were the chief’s enforcers, in a region vastly more dangerous than the Borders (where the Ulster Scots were not from anyway, they were from the closest parts of Scotland: Ayrshire and Galloway). Canada got the highest concentration of Highlanders, and it has never been all that violent.

    Yamnaya looked a lot more like a swarthier Jack Palance than Max Von Sydow, so it is indeed mystical to think they ended up like modern north Europeans by simple mixture.

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  • My own own English ancestors from the Deep South and Virginia can trace their roots back the southwest section of England, at least the ones that are traceable, and I have yet to find an immigrant in the woodpile. My ancestors were colonists, which is typical of Southerners. I came across an old family history that claims Norman roots, but I have no idea how anyone would know that, since that line of the family goes cold in the mid 1700s in Virginia. They were mostly Methodists, but one line was from a group of Quakers living in South Carolina, which later converted to become Methodists.

    I’m surprised that more German influence wasn’t found in the Deep South and Appalachian areas of the South. Some of the earliest settlers in Georgia were German Lutherans, and their descendants are still common in pockets along the coast. The only non-English ancestors that I have found were German Moravians and Swiss colonists in North Carolina and Virginia.

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  • @dc.sunsets
    Since I believe that we've spend 50 years in a Utopian Delusion, a folie a plusiers, and that when the fiat-money/debt-orgy bubble finally detonates, it will coincide with rage and distrust that are a perfect inversion of the "We Are The World" that animated public policies like Open Borders and scattered-site Section 8 shuffling of very disparate peoples together, I try to see how the coming wave of in-grouping will be affected by these geographic distributions.

    Is there enough common ground between the various "Nations" that they will coalesce politically to retake and defend what my ancestors built in North America, or will they behave like the various Native American tribes whose inter-tribal hostility enabled a divide and conquer take-over?

    In my perusal of your work, you've made no bones about hoping that what brought your parents to the USA can be defended, and that only if those whose ancestors built it are the predominant population can that be effected. This means my question should not offend your sense of right and wrong.

    I guess my question is, if the USA descends into a period of conflict to defend the pre-1965 mix of people here, is it safe to assume that being a person who explicitly prefers that pre-1965 mix should relocate to Greater Appalachia or other clearly red-leaning areas on the 2016 Trump map? If the USA breaks up politically along fault lines now in evidence, the genetic predispositions of people merit serious consideration from a long-term safety standpoint.

    Have you any thoughts about this? I know you claim to live in Yankeedom but the sentiments there need to change radically for your neighbors to reject the pathological altruism that created the looming demographic crisis.

    The Yankee will never change. He will have to reap a harvest from the seeds he has sown. And good riddance to bad rubbish.

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  • @Nathan Taylor
    Good post. I've been thinking about how Albion's Seed relates to new paper by Han et al, and this is a good overview. That's a great paper!

    But....what's less clear to me is if we've learned anything new beyond what we already knew. If it's just confirmation, well, that's fine.

    The only thing that seems to jump out is south part of Tidewater. That's the poorest alignment between Han et al and other existing ancestry/cultural/trump voter maps. Is that perhaps an area where something new is to be dug into where genetic ancestry aligns less closely to culture than other areas?

    Yes, it is the enormous number of “non-Tidewater” folk now living in the Tidewater (as employees of Uncle Scam in and around DC). They are outliers, but they now outnumber the real Tidewater population. This same thing is happening quicker and quicker now to the Deep South, too, as Yankee snowbirds invade and colonize for their retirement in a good climate. It promises even more–and deeper–divisions in society. In 1861, these nations were geographical. Next time, they won’t be.

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    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    Would you care to explain how the "snowbirds" and people planning retirement in warmer climates threaten more and deeper divisions in society of a kind that matter? In Australia it is suggested that rich Chinese are contributing to the unaffordability of housing for the young but, even apart from that not having much truth in it, that sort problem can hardly be the case in the US south.
    , @RadicalCenter
    The so-called Yankee snowbirds are dwarfed in number and negative political/social effects by the MILLIONS of Haitians, Puerto Ricans, Latin Americans, and Third Worlders that have settled in Florida.

    Compare a thousand Northern white Americans who retire to Florida, with a thousand foreign immigrants to Florida. Which group is more fiscally conservative or politically moderate/conservative? Which group is on balance more patriotic, more loyal to America and our traditional culture, language, rule of law, mores? Which group is more willing to help other actual core Americans?

    I know many people who have retired to FL from the "Tri-State Area" -- NY, NJ, CT -- and definitely are NOT politically left or white-hating / Western-culture-hating ("multicultural").
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  • for those who have not read Fischer, it is a great book. He also trashes the jewish school of America as a ‘Nation of Immigrants.’ His word, “seed” is intentional and he says so. It is the genetics of Albion, and by implication, Other Seeds are very different. Our splendid genetics , the whitest of the white….etc.

    Joe Webb

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  • @Capitalism
    Who made the decision to include much of Canada in the midlands, what was their justification. I will repeat though, Scrapple seems like an odd choice to defend the midlands, because if anything it greatly weakens the case for it! Scrapple goes across 3-5 different regions and only bits of those regions, it is not in most of the midlands.

    Scrapple divides the midlands of this map instead of uniting them. It's in parts of Tidewater, Yankeedom, New Netherlands, probably Greater Appalachia, and Midlands.

    The Midlands west of the Alleghenies are as much or more a buffer between New England and Southern influenced areas than an extension of Pennsylvania. Try driving down the road on I-65 from Gary to Indianapolis or on I-55 from Joliet to Springfield.

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    • Replies: @capitalism
    Edit: mistake
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  • @OhBrother!
    Such nonsense. Haven't read such bullshit since the many diatribes against the Gaels in Scotland as lazy, worthless genetic stock and the pronouncement that a mystical Ukrainian progenitor race really is the master race.

    Such nonsense. Haven’t read such bullshit

    I swear the commenters here just aren’t that good.

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    • Replies: @Oh Brother
    It is a comment worthy of the content of this essay. If there were more than empty supposition, there might be something worth commenting about. I swear, such articles here just aren't that good.
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  • @Ironsides
    Yes, the orthogonal roads are a bit of a stretch. I'm in Wisconsin at the moment and all I have to do is drive down my driveway to be on an orthogonal road in a vast open area, and could drive for hours without leaving that type of road.

    In the Midwest, West, and large parts of the South, you have the Northwest Ordinance system of square mile sections with section line roads, which became main streets as urbanization progressed. In some other areas you have roads or streets which are either paralell or perpendicular to a nearby waterway, and thus often orthogonal to each other. It’s not a binary choice between the Northwest Ordinance or roads following the cowpaths, although the latter situation does exist in certain places.

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  • Such nonsense. Haven’t read such bullshit since the many diatribes against the Gaels in Scotland as lazy, worthless genetic stock and the pronouncement that a mystical Ukrainian progenitor race really is the master race.

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    • Replies: @JayMan

    Such nonsense. Haven’t read such bullshit
     
    I swear the commenters here just aren't that good.
    , @Sean
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacksman

    The commercialisation of clan landholding led to the Highlands being denuded of the Tacksmen class, many of who emigrated. to America So the remnants were probably not very impressive. The Highlands were the most lawless and violent part of Britain, and the Tacksmen were the chief's enforcers, in a region vastly more dangerous than the Borders (where the Ulster Scots were not from anyway, they were from the closest parts of Scotland: Ayrshire and Galloway). Canada got the highest concentration of Highlanders, and it has never been all that violent.

    Yamnaya looked a lot more like a swarthier Jack Palance than Max Von Sydow, so it is indeed mystical to think they ended up like modern north Europeans by simple mixture.
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  • @Wizard of Oz
    Jayman, my question to you is a rwo step one inasmuch as it is logically possible that the answer to the first part is totally dismissive.

    I recently came across the work of a 30 something Canadian at Melbourne University whose three books all seem to have something to do with what the title of one of them "Delusions of Gender" indicates. The name of the pleasant sounding author is Cordelia Fine. I would be interested in your view of her work which seemed to put a lot of emphasis on the plasticity of the brain. Whatever one may think of her application of what is known about neuroplasticity to the differences and lack thereof between men and women it would seem to imply that the behavioural traits you mention as subject to genetic inheritance should be found to be malleable over time according to the ways of the population with which children and their parents mux when young. Fair comment - in theory? And is he inference borne out by facts?

    Fair comment – in theory? And is he inference borne out by facts?

    What do you think?

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    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    I suspect the answer is that Cordelia Fine exaggerates the extent to which plasticity is ever likely to be able to eradicate differences between men and women and that you exaggerate the importance of genes in relation to America's regional populations (not including the notorious 1 sd difference even if it is fundamentally more like 0.5).

    Over to you who know far more evidentiary facts than I.

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  • Jayman, my question to you is a rwo step one inasmuch as it is logically possible that the answer to the first part is totally dismissive.

    I recently came across the work of a 30 something Canadian at Melbourne University whose three books all seem to have something to do with what the title of one of them “Delusions of Gender” indicates. The name of the pleasant sounding author is Cordelia Fine. I would be interested in your view of her work which seemed to put a lot of emphasis on the plasticity of the brain. Whatever one may think of her application of what is known about neuroplasticity to the differences and lack thereof between men and women it would seem to imply that the behavioural traits you mention as subject to genetic inheritance should be found to be malleable over time according to the ways of the population with which children and their parents mux when young. Fair comment – in theory? And is he inference borne out by facts?

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    • Replies: @JayMan

    Fair comment – in theory? And is he inference borne out by facts?
     
    What do you think?
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  • Anon • Disclaimer says:

    That’s how the mythos are created. ‘And the common progenitor of Americans was Amer, brother of Aeneas, who left Troy from another, less documented gate’.

    De origine americanorum, let’s hear again from Americas very own voice, Kurt Wonnegut (of German descent).

    What is the white stuff in bird poop? Answer: That is bird poop, too.

    In ‘Pleasantville’, the school geography describes only two streets of the town. We can imagine some post-apocalyptic history lesson based on Jayman’s mythos. And he could proudly repeat the voice of the same great Writer,

    ‘I used to clean birdshit out of cuckoo clocks’

    .

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  • […] has an excellent article at Unz.com on the genetics of the American Nations:“And now, a new paper in Nature bears out the genetic roots of the American nations. In […]

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  • Who made the decision to include much of Canada in the midlands, what was their justification. I will repeat though, Scrapple seems like an odd choice to defend the midlands, because if anything it greatly weakens the case for it! Scrapple goes across 3-5 different regions and only bits of those regions, it is not in most of the midlands.

    Scrapple divides the midlands of this map instead of uniting them. It’s in parts of Tidewater, Yankeedom, New Netherlands, probably Greater Appalachia, and Midlands.

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    • Replies: @Hibernian
    The Midlands west of the Alleghenies are as much or more a buffer between New England and Southern influenced areas than an extension of Pennsylvania. Try driving down the road on I-65 from Gary to Indianapolis or on I-55 from Joliet to Springfield.
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  • @Krass92
    So "American nations" are more like Weber's ideal types, analytical tools, rather than real entities? So could someone possibly create maps of "sub nations"( ideal types within ideal types) so to speak ., thus making a Hegelian journey from abstract to concrete?

    So “American nations” are more like Weber’s ideal types, analytical tools, rather than real entities?

    As per the genetic map, they are real entities.

    So could someone possibly create maps of “sub nations”( ideal types within ideal types) so to speak

    But there is further structure beneath the overall divisions.

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  • @Capitalism
    Is Scrappel common in the other regions listed in that comment? I looked it up and it appears to be mostly limited to mid atlantic states. I suppose your midlands region isn't entirely insane in within the US but what justification do you have for including the Canadian regions in the midlands? When your maps show that region of Canada they mostly seem to indicate that it is significantly different from the American midlands, and there are a bunch of obvious cultural differences.

    "Vast open areas with orthogonal roads" could apply to many areas of many regions.

    Yes, the orthogonal roads are a bit of a stretch. I’m in Wisconsin at the moment and all I have to do is drive down my driveway to be on an orthogonal road in a vast open area, and could drive for hours without leaving that type of road.

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    • Replies: @Hibernian
    In the Midwest, West, and large parts of the South, you have the Northwest Ordinance system of square mile sections with section line roads, which became main streets as urbanization progressed. In some other areas you have roads or streets which are either paralell or perpendicular to a nearby waterway, and thus often orthogonal to each other. It's not a binary choice between the Northwest Ordinance or roads following the cowpaths, although the latter situation does exist in certain places.
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  • @JayMan

    Southern NJ is nothing like those areas, correct me if I’m wrong.
     
    Scrapple.

    Vast open areas with orthogonal roads. I've been to southern NJ. The parallels are there.

    One of the complaints I get about the American nations model is that "X is region is nothing like Y nation." My main answer to that is that it's important to look at the big picture. Also, it's important to recognize that there is variation within the nations as well.

    So “American nations” are more like Weber’s ideal types, analytical tools, rather than real entities? So could someone possibly create maps of “sub nations”( ideal types within ideal types) so to speak ., thus making a Hegelian journey from abstract to concrete?

    Read More
    • Replies: @JayMan

    So “American nations” are more like Weber’s ideal types, analytical tools, rather than real entities?
     
    As per the genetic map, they are real entities.

    So could someone possibly create maps of “sub nations”( ideal types within ideal types) so to speak
     
    But there is further structure beneath the overall divisions.
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  • […] JayMan has an excellent article at Unz.com on the genetics of the American Nations: […]

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  • @JayMan

    Southern NJ is nothing like those areas, correct me if I’m wrong.
     
    Scrapple.

    Vast open areas with orthogonal roads. I've been to southern NJ. The parallels are there.

    One of the complaints I get about the American nations model is that "X is region is nothing like Y nation." My main answer to that is that it's important to look at the big picture. Also, it's important to recognize that there is variation within the nations as well.

    Is Scrappel common in the other regions listed in that comment? I looked it up and it appears to be mostly limited to mid atlantic states. I suppose your midlands region isn’t entirely insane in within the US but what justification do you have for including the Canadian regions in the midlands? When your maps show that region of Canada they mostly seem to indicate that it is significantly different from the American midlands, and there are a bunch of obvious cultural differences.

    “Vast open areas with orthogonal roads” could apply to many areas of many regions.

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    • Replies: @Ironsides
    Yes, the orthogonal roads are a bit of a stretch. I'm in Wisconsin at the moment and all I have to do is drive down my driveway to be on an orthogonal road in a vast open area, and could drive for hours without leaving that type of road.
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  • I have traced my ancestors back to Normandy in 102x AD , crossing the Channel in 1066. They stayed in Northern England till the 1630′s when my paternal ancestor left Northenden, Cheshire moving to King William, Virginia. The next 150 years saw my ancestors move 70 miles west to Louisa County VA , then moving 600 miles to Simpson County Kentucky in the early 1800′s.

    My Ancestry DNA showed 52% Europe West, 33% Great Britain, 13% Ireland, and 2% trace of West Asia. This is what Ancestry has to say about “trace regions” : “These are regions where you seem to have just a trace amount of genetic ethnicity — there is only a small amount of evidence supporting the regions as part of your genetic ethnicity. Because both the estimated amount and the range of the estimate are small, it is possible that these regions appear by chance and are not actually part of your genetic ethnicity.”

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    • Replies: @Father O'Hara
    No black in there?
    , @Geordie
    Mallory is an English name, mostly originating in Yorkshire.

    publicprofiler.org/Map.aspx?name=MALLORY&year=1881&altyear=1998&country=GB&type=name
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  • @Anone
    At the very LEAST you should separate much of Ontario from the Midlands.

    I think both Colin Woodard and Joel Garreau made a big mistake by North Americanizing their inherently United Statesian nations.

    There’s no logical way San Diego and Tijuana (or El Paso/Juarez) can be considered part of the same Mexamerica/El Norte “nation.” The US-Mexican border is probably the starkest economic and civilizational faultline in the world, hence the need for a wall.

    Same with lumping Miami and Havana (or Palm Beach and Port-au-Prince) in the same pan-Caribbean nation. That’s not to say that these heavily Hispanic Southwestern and South Florida sub-nations don’t exist within the United States, maybe they do maybe they don’t, but they definitely don’t extend into Mexico or the West Indies.

    In Canada, Quebec is obviously its own nation, as is Nunavut, the Inuit ethnostate carved out of the Northwest Territories in 1999. Newfoundland has its own national history and unique West Country English/Irish fisherfolk culture.

    The Maritimes are kind of a Newfy-Canadian hybrid nation, a ‘saltwater Appalachia’ not really like Yankeedom at all. Scottish culture is probably stronger there than anywhere outside the auld country.

    As for the rest of Canada, I think it’s a distinct nation as well. From Toronto to Vancouver there is a fairly homogeneous Canadian culture and dialect that sets it apart from any of the American nations. The founding stock of English Canada were proudly British, disproportionately Scottish and heavily Anglican, but the hearth of their culture is actually in a foreign nation: Montreal.

    The British built Montreal into the largest city in Canada, were the majority of the population through most of the 19th century, and dominated it economically up to the 1960s. But in the beginning it was chosen as the base for the conquest and exploitation of half a continent by swashbucklers like Alexander Mackenzie and the North West Company, the true founding fathers of the Canadian nation.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_West_Company

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  • @RaceRealist88
    I'm from New Jersey. JayMan, care to explain this? Southern NJ is nothing like those areas, correct me if I'm wrong.

    Southern NJ is nothing like those areas, correct me if I’m wrong.

    Scrapple.

    Vast open areas with orthogonal roads. I’ve been to southern NJ. The parallels are there.

    One of the complaints I get about the American nations model is that “X is region is nothing like Y nation.” My main answer to that is that it’s important to look at the big picture. Also, it’s important to recognize that there is variation within the nations as well.

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    • Replies: @Capitalism
    Is Scrappel common in the other regions listed in that comment? I looked it up and it appears to be mostly limited to mid atlantic states. I suppose your midlands region isn't entirely insane in within the US but what justification do you have for including the Canadian regions in the midlands? When your maps show that region of Canada they mostly seem to indicate that it is significantly different from the American midlands, and there are a bunch of obvious cultural differences.

    "Vast open areas with orthogonal roads" could apply to many areas of many regions.
    , @Krass92
    So "American nations" are more like Weber's ideal types, analytical tools, rather than real entities? So could someone possibly create maps of "sub nations"( ideal types within ideal types) so to speak ., thus making a Hegelian journey from abstract to concrete?
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Anone
    I wish you would stop using the American nations map. While broadly right in some areas much of it is preposterous and laughable. For example, who would group Southern New Jersey, Toronto, the Texas/Oklahoma Panhandle, and Southern Manitoba,in one region/nation of North America? Whether it is meant to be a mere cultural, regional grouping or a possible sovereign nation it is grotesque.

    I’m from New Jersey. JayMan, care to explain this? Southern NJ is nothing like those areas, correct me if I’m wrong.

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    • Replies: @JayMan

    Southern NJ is nothing like those areas, correct me if I’m wrong.
     
    Scrapple.

    Vast open areas with orthogonal roads. I've been to southern NJ. The parallels are there.

    One of the complaints I get about the American nations model is that "X is region is nothing like Y nation." My main answer to that is that it's important to look at the big picture. Also, it's important to recognize that there is variation within the nations as well.

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • “Curiously, Han et al seem to have found two distinct currents of Appalachian settlement. I’m unclear about what this represents.”

    The northern group is the Appalachian group that came down the Shenadoah Valley and then spread down the Ohio River and into Missouri. This group is more Methodist, Nazarene, and Restoration Christian. This group was not secessionist in the Civil War.

    The southern group is the lower classes from the Virginia settlement who headed into western North Carolina and eastern Tennessee and then southwestward to Arkansas and Texas. This group is Baptists. This group was secessionist in the Civil War.

    The denominational religious differences helped keep these two groups separate.

    There is also a 3rd group, which is the static backwoods hill folk of southern West Virginia, western Virginia and eastern Kentucky.

    Also, these clusters are clearly much more English and much less “Borderlander” than they are given credit for, with a large amount of people from Liverpool/Birmingham/Manchester/Leeds, etc., areas infamous for kidnapping and origins of indentured servants in the 1600′s.

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  • At the very LEAST you should separate much of Ontario from the Midlands.

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    • Replies: @jeppo
    I think both Colin Woodard and Joel Garreau made a big mistake by North Americanizing their inherently United Statesian nations.

    There's no logical way San Diego and Tijuana (or El Paso/Juarez) can be considered part of the same Mexamerica/El Norte "nation." The US-Mexican border is probably the starkest economic and civilizational faultline in the world, hence the need for a wall.

    Same with lumping Miami and Havana (or Palm Beach and Port-au-Prince) in the same pan-Caribbean nation. That's not to say that these heavily Hispanic Southwestern and South Florida sub-nations don't exist within the United States, maybe they do maybe they don't, but they definitely don't extend into Mexico or the West Indies.

    In Canada, Quebec is obviously its own nation, as is Nunavut, the Inuit ethnostate carved out of the Northwest Territories in 1999. Newfoundland has its own national history and unique West Country English/Irish fisherfolk culture.

    The Maritimes are kind of a Newfy-Canadian hybrid nation, a 'saltwater Appalachia' not really like Yankeedom at all. Scottish culture is probably stronger there than anywhere outside the auld country.

    As for the rest of Canada, I think it's a distinct nation as well. From Toronto to Vancouver there is a fairly homogeneous Canadian culture and dialect that sets it apart from any of the American nations. The founding stock of English Canada were proudly British, disproportionately Scottish and heavily Anglican, but the hearth of their culture is actually in a foreign nation: Montreal.

    The British built Montreal into the largest city in Canada, were the majority of the population through most of the 19th century, and dominated it economically up to the 1960s. But in the beginning it was chosen as the base for the conquest and exploitation of half a continent by swashbucklers like Alexander Mackenzie and the North West Company, the true founding fathers of the Canadian nation.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_West_Company
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  • I wish you would stop using the American nations map. While broadly right in some areas much of it is preposterous and laughable. For example, who would group Southern New Jersey, Toronto, the Texas/Oklahoma Panhandle, and Southern Manitoba,in one region/nation of North America? Whether it is meant to be a mere cultural, regional grouping or a possible sovereign nation it is grotesque.

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    • Replies: @RaceRealist88
    I'm from New Jersey. JayMan, care to explain this? Southern NJ is nothing like those areas, correct me if I'm wrong.
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  • @JayMan

    I strongly suspect that it would have been better for the descendants of the population in 1850 to have have maintained the ethnic/racial mix of 1850 (essentially the position taken by the “Know Nothing Party”) indefinitely, even if it meant a much smaller population for the U.S.
     
    Without immigrants to compete for jobs and living space, there is a good chance the fertility of the colonial stock would have remained high. Maybe the U.S. population wouldn't be a whole lot smaller now.

    That said, I'm in no position to complain. :)

    Thanks for the reply. Samuel P. Huntington made a similar point in his book Who Are We? When I look at my family history I often find families with eight children. My father had 21 first cousins on one side, my daughter has four on both sides. I wonder whether a significantly lower population would be that bad. I’m old enough to remember the United States when it had less than 200 million people and it didn’t seem empty.

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  • @Fidelios Automata
    The weirdest thing about the "nations" map is the little column of "midlands" that runs up the middle of the Dakotas. Sure, Fargo and Sioux Falls are somewhat different than Bismarck and Rapid City, but what makes Jamestown and Aberdeen so distinct from the both of them? You don't actually need to connect Iowa to Ontario, since you didn't connect Louisiana to Quebec.

    The Acadians came from what’s now Nova Scotia, not Quebec, though there were later French immigrants from all over.

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  • @JayMan

    I strongly suspect that it would have been better for the descendants of the population in 1850 to have have maintained the ethnic/racial mix of 1850 (essentially the position taken by the “Know Nothing Party”) indefinitely, even if it meant a much smaller population for the U.S.
     
    Without immigrants to compete for jobs and living space, there is a good chance the fertility of the colonial stock would have remained high. Maybe the U.S. population wouldn't be a whole lot smaller now.

    That said, I'm in no position to complain. :)

    Is it not amazing to see how sentiments change? Forty years ago people were freaked out about overpopulation and any hint of a smaller census would have been celebrated.

    Now, talk of lower fertility rates are seen as a crisis. We’re told that Japan isn’t replacing its population, the horrors!

    So much of everything is One Fad After Another. In 50 years, this notion that everyone should be able to move anywhere and that immigration controls are somehow immoral will be a subject of ridicule, and depending on how chaotic and painful are the next decade or two, the leading lights of Open Borders may be regarded by history with disgust now mostly reserved for the likes of Pol Pot.

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    • Replies: @Skeptikal
    " In 50 years, this notion that everyone should be able to move anywhere and that immigration controls are somehow immoral will be a subject of ridicule,"

    Perhaps also subject to ridicule will be the idea that capital can go wherever it wants, but labor cannot . . .
    Should be subject to ridicule now. Not that I am a believer in "open borders."
    I am a believer in not letting capital roam wherever it wants all over the globe. But if that is to be the dispensation, then people must be able to follow it and work wherever they want and can get a job.
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  • Since I believe that we’ve spend 50 years in a Utopian Delusion, a folie a plusiers, and that when the fiat-money/debt-orgy bubble finally detonates, it will coincide with rage and distrust that are a perfect inversion of the “We Are The World” that animated public policies like Open Borders and scattered-site Section 8 shuffling of very disparate peoples together, I try to see how the coming wave of in-grouping will be affected by these geographic distributions.

    Is there enough common ground between the various “Nations” that they will coalesce politically to retake and defend what my ancestors built in North America, or will they behave like the various Native American tribes whose inter-tribal hostility enabled a divide and conquer take-over?

    In my perusal of your work, you’ve made no bones about hoping that what brought your parents to the USA can be defended, and that only if those whose ancestors built it are the predominant population can that be effected. This means my question should not offend your sense of right and wrong.

    I guess my question is, if the USA descends into a period of conflict to defend the pre-1965 mix of people here, is it safe to assume that being a person who explicitly prefers that pre-1965 mix should relocate to Greater Appalachia or other clearly red-leaning areas on the 2016 Trump map? If the USA breaks up politically along fault lines now in evidence, the genetic predispositions of people merit serious consideration from a long-term safety standpoint.

    Have you any thoughts about this? I know you claim to live in Yankeedom but the sentiments there need to change radically for your neighbors to reject the pathological altruism that created the looming demographic crisis.

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    • Replies: @Mr Darcy
    The Yankee will never change. He will have to reap a harvest from the seeds he has sown. And good riddance to bad rubbish.
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  • @Diversity Heretic
    The scatter diagrams were sometimes hard to follow, but it seems to me that "e pluribus unum" is about to fracture (and yes I know it referred originally to states). My other observation is drawn from Figure 1, which shows the proportion of various racial and ethnic groups in the U.S. I strongly suspect that it would have been better for the descendants of the population in 1850 to have have maintained the ethnic/racial mix of 1850 (essentially the position taken by the "Know Nothing Party") indefinitely, even if it meant a much smaller population for the U.S. I know historians roll their eyes about contrary to fact speculation, but there's probably a lesson to be drawn for the terrifying demographic future now facing the United States.

    I strongly suspect that it would have been better for the descendants of the population in 1850 to have have maintained the ethnic/racial mix of 1850 (essentially the position taken by the “Know Nothing Party”) indefinitely, even if it meant a much smaller population for the U.S.

    Without immigrants to compete for jobs and living space, there is a good chance the fertility of the colonial stock would have remained high. Maybe the U.S. population wouldn’t be a whole lot smaller now.

    That said, I’m in no position to complain. :)

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    • Replies: @dc.sunsets
    Is it not amazing to see how sentiments change? Forty years ago people were freaked out about overpopulation and any hint of a smaller census would have been celebrated.

    Now, talk of lower fertility rates are seen as a crisis. We're told that Japan isn't replacing its population, the horrors!

    So much of everything is One Fad After Another. In 50 years, this notion that everyone should be able to move anywhere and that immigration controls are somehow immoral will be a subject of ridicule, and depending on how chaotic and painful are the next decade or two, the leading lights of Open Borders may be regarded by history with disgust now mostly reserved for the likes of Pol Pot.
    , @Diversity Heretic
    Thanks for the reply. Samuel P. Huntington made a similar point in his book Who Are We? When I look at my family history I often find families with eight children. My father had 21 first cousins on one side, my daughter has four on both sides. I wonder whether a significantly lower population would be that bad. I'm old enough to remember the United States when it had less than 200 million people and it didn't seem empty.
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  • The scatter diagrams were sometimes hard to follow, but it seems to me that “e pluribus unum” is about to fracture (and yes I know it referred originally to states). My other observation is drawn from Figure 1, which shows the proportion of various racial and ethnic groups in the U.S. I strongly suspect that it would have been better for the descendants of the population in 1850 to have have maintained the ethnic/racial mix of 1850 (essentially the position taken by the “Know Nothing Party”) indefinitely, even if it meant a much smaller population for the U.S. I know historians roll their eyes about contrary to fact speculation, but there’s probably a lesson to be drawn for the terrifying demographic future now facing the United States.

    Read More
    • Replies: @JayMan

    I strongly suspect that it would have been better for the descendants of the population in 1850 to have have maintained the ethnic/racial mix of 1850 (essentially the position taken by the “Know Nothing Party”) indefinitely, even if it meant a much smaller population for the U.S.
     
    Without immigrants to compete for jobs and living space, there is a good chance the fertility of the colonial stock would have remained high. Maybe the U.S. population wouldn't be a whole lot smaller now.

    That said, I'm in no position to complain. :)

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Fidelios Automata
    The weirdest thing about the "nations" map is the little column of "midlands" that runs up the middle of the Dakotas. Sure, Fargo and Sioux Falls are somewhat different than Bismarck and Rapid City, but what makes Jamestown and Aberdeen so distinct from the both of them? You don't actually need to connect Iowa to Ontario, since you didn't connect Louisiana to Quebec.

    You don’t actually need to connect Iowa to Ontario, since you didn’t connect Louisiana to Quebec.

    It’s not done just to connect Ontario to Iowa.

    Also, in the supplemental info of Han et al, take a look at the Mennonites, or look again closely at the Midlands genetic map above.

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