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    Sergei Magnitsky was a Russian lawyer hired by an Anglo-American investment fund operating in Moscow to investigate the apparent diversion of as much as $230 million in taxes due to the government. He became a whistleblower after discovering that the money had been stolen by the police, organized crime figures and other government officials. After...
  • […] scarcely a single mention of these remarkable revelations regarding what might amount to a gigantic Magnitsky Hoax of geopolitical […]

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  • @Quartermaster
    You can embrace any myth you wish.

    Quartermaster certainly is on a roll.
    Of some kind.
    Not sure of the relevance of the roll, though, at least not to what I wrote.

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  • @Skeptikal
    That is BS.

    You can embrace any myth you wish.

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    • Replies: @Skeptikal
    Quartermaster certainly is on a roll.
    Of some kind.
    Not sure of the relevance of the roll, though, at least not to what I wrote.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Verymuchalive
    You are an ignorant Neocon moron. Take your lies elsewhere.

    I wrote nothing that does not comport with the facts. perhaps you should get out more.

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  • @Orville H. Larson
    "Putin is the man rattle the nuclear sabers, not the west. The West has called Putin on his neo-Tsarist activities and he's responded with a threat of nuclear war."

    Huh? Say what?

    You've got it ass-backwards, lad. The U.S. Government and its puppet NATO are the biggest warmongers on the planet, not to mention a certain pantsuited shrew who's running for President. . . .

    You read that moron Saker far too much.

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  • @White Nationalist
    "Putin is the man rattle the nuclear sabers..."

    _____


    Which clown school did you attend? Hopefully they're no longer in business.

    Obviously one far better than yours. Putin is the one that has rattled nuke sabers. No one in the west has.

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  • anon • Disclaimer says:

    Why would you continue the falsehood of calling Magnitsky a lawyer? He was not a lawyer. Ever. He is and was an accountant and will remain that until Judgement Day. On the other other hand, calling him a lawyer is perhaps an even greater insult than calling him an accountant.

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  • Gee, I know G. was a spook of some kind and I always read his articles wherever they turn up.. but how could he get this wrong unless on purpose: Magnitsky was no lawyer. He was an accountant and he was a co-conspirator in the frauds being perpetrated that resulted in the charges. He died alright but there is some shading to the thesis that the fraudsters had him bumped off because they knew he was a weak link. They bribed somebody in the prison to deny him medical care. Hey, much like they did to Milosevic knowing they couldn’t convict him of their trumped up charges. Why would G. get wrong such a simple thing to determine? Hmm. I wonder..

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  • If there is evidence Magnitsky was a crook, presumably the Russian government has it? What incentive would they have to not release it and leave the field open to the anti-Russian types and the conspiracy buffs? Why not just prove he was a crook and put the issue to bed?

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  • @Corvinus
    "Kind’a like the story that broke in the alternative media a few years back about Snowden’s disclosure that the NSA had contracted out spying on Americans to their Israeli counterpart and how the editor of the NYT (the paper of [false] record) refused to cover it? Something along those lines?"

    Which alternative media source? How credible? What exactly was reported? How was that information obtained? Right or wrong, fair or unfair, these questions are taking into account by editors, regardless it is NYT or Fox News, and are standard operating procedures in the modern corporate news business on what stories to report immediately or later on.

    "The irony is the Russian people came to realize their newspapers were telling them lies."

    Not surprisingly because the media there is state-run. There are other factors involved.

    http://www.newsweek.com/majority-russians-do-not-trust-national-media-510682

    "Corvy, you keep waiting for the Lugenpresse of Weimerica (LOW) to report the truth."

    News today is driven by a desired narrative, moreso than in decades past. You have the left and the right who craft a story based on facts, with each side serving as a political evangelical to promote their interpretation. There are truths found here. Unfortunately, large segments of our society has been conditioned by social media “sensations”, reality television “stars”, and ratings driven media conglomerates to reject evidence that challenges their beliefs. They do it instinctively when confronted with attitude-inconsistent information. When someone attempts to inform them of their misconceptions, rather than take it under advisement, it “backfires”, which in effect makes them less skeptical of what they believe in, since obviously the other side is rife with their own false impressions. Thus, one continues to see their own position as “true and proper”. Of course, the argument stems from what is and what is not a misconception, whether it be “race realism” or “white privilege”, which ends up being a feedback loop.

    For example, consider this exchange on 60 Minutes.

    Cernovich--"How do you know Hillary had pneumonia?"
    Pelley--"The campaign said so."
    Cernovich--”Why do you believe in the campaign?”

    On one hand, it is absolutely legitimate for Cernovich to question Pelley on why he is certain about Hillary’s medical problem. Pelley is taking her word at face value. On the other hand, Cernovich is ASSUMING that he knows for sure her health issues, and that any answer to the contrary automatically leads to his desired conclusion--the media is covering something up.

    Imagine if Pelley responded “Two independent doctors confirmed she has pneumonia”. Cervonich could have replied, and it is within the realm of possibility given his personality, “Well, they are in her hip pocket. She paid for their diagnosis. See, I do not have to prove that she suffers from seizures, you have to show she does not suffer from seizures”. Wayne Gale, the reporter in Natural Born Killers (1994) played by Robert Downey, Jr. demonstrates how modern journalism has evolved. The playbook implemented by Cernovich (and Keith Olbermann) pay homage to his tactics.

    It is virtually impossible to have reasonable conversations with people who cling on this “Fake New” or “media lies” meme. Any fact you bring as an argument, they immediately attack the SOURCE, rather than the substance. Thus, it is easy to deny there is ANY evidence at all. This phenomenon has been brewing for a long time, and it has reached a critical mass at our point in world history. Unfortunately, this leads more people to become ignorant by facilitating echo chambers and confirmation bias. Rather than yell at the top of one’s lungs “Fake News” when they read a mainstream or alternative media story, and immediately discount everything, people ought look CRITICALLY at the facts, consider any bias, read other sources on the issue, and then draw their own conclusions.

    “Rather than yell at the top of one’s lungs “Fake News” when they read a mainstream or alternative media story, and immediately discount everything, people ought look CRITICALLY at the facts, consider any bias, read other sources on the issue, and then draw their own conclusions.”

    Absolutely. And those who are crying “fake news” the most often and the most loudly and using that phrase to discredit anything they do not want to rebut with actual informatoin—those people are the most suspect. Just like those who cry “conspiracy theory” whenever they see a hypothesis that they do not want to have investigated and want to derail. It would not surprise me at all to learn that both of these phrases were cooked up in some corner of Langley to use to get control of the media. Instead of “dissidents” being labeled schizophrenic and sent to psychiatric wards, as in the USSR, they are labeled as conspiracy theorists and purveyors of “fake news” and the effect is about the same, minus the cost of upkeep in a ward.

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  • @Quartermaster
    Putin is the man rattle the nuclear sabers, not the west. The west has called Putin on his neo-Tsarist activities and he's responded with a threat of nuclear war.

    No one in the west has to do a thing to destroy Russia. Putin is doing a very good job all by his lonesome. He learned his lessons well while at the KGB.

    That is BS.

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    • Replies: @Quartermaster
    You can embrace any myth you wish.
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  • @peterike

    The Browders who are descended from (non-Jewish) Communist Earl Browder seem to have good mathematical brains which may be inherited from Earl Browder’s Russian Jewish wife. But it appears the Jewishness ended with her.

     

    Oh, one Russian Jew in the lineage is quite enough to poison the well for several generations.

    If your mother is Jewish, you are Jewish.
    According to the Jews.

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  • @Henry's Cat
    Mr. Giraldi, you wrote:

    A number of Congressmen and staffers were invited to the showing of the Nekrasov documentary at the Newseum but it is not clear if any of them actually bothered to attend, demonstrating once again how America’s legislature operates inside a bubble of willful ignorance of its own making. Nor was the event reported in the local “newspaper of record” the Washington Post, which has been consistently hostile to Russia on its editorial and news pages.
     
    But the Parry piece you linked to says different: After the Newseum presentation, a Washington Post editorial branded Nekrasov’s documentary Russian “agit-prop” and sought to discredit Nekrasov without addressing his many documented examples of Browder’s misrepresenting both big and small facts in the case. I trust you won't make a distinction between reportage and an editorial.

    Your reference to Browder being subpoenaed with regard to "allegations connected to the Magnitsky fraud that are making their way through American courts" require more substance. Perhaps you'll address that on Tuesday.

    As for the availability of the film, how did you get to see it? Parry says it's hiding on Vimeo.

    The Washington Post did not announce it before the fact-after the fact is irrelevant since they only chose to attack it. I saw the viewing at Newseum.

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  • @Philip Giraldi
    Henry - Bob Parry goes into the film much more deeply that I did. His article will likely answer all your questions: https://consortiumnews.com/2017/08/02/a-blacklisted-film-and-the-new-cold-war/. I will have a new article on the story here at Unz on Tuesday. As far as I can tell, the film is not available anywhere due to lawsuits filed by Browder.

    Mr. Giraldi, you wrote:

    A number of Congressmen and staffers were invited to the showing of the Nekrasov documentary at the Newseum but it is not clear if any of them actually bothered to attend, demonstrating once again how America’s legislature operates inside a bubble of willful ignorance of its own making. Nor was the event reported in the local “newspaper of record” the Washington Post, which has been consistently hostile to Russia on its editorial and news pages.

    But the Parry piece you linked to says different: After the Newseum presentation, a Washington Post editorial branded Nekrasov’s documentary Russian “agit-prop” and sought to discredit Nekrasov without addressing his many documented examples of Browder’s misrepresenting both big and small facts in the case. I trust you won’t make a distinction between reportage and an editorial.

    Your reference to Browder being subpoenaed with regard to “allegations connected to the Magnitsky fraud that are making their way through American courts” require more substance. Perhaps you’ll address that on Tuesday.

    As for the availability of the film, how did you get to see it? Parry says it’s hiding on Vimeo.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Philip Giraldi
    The Washington Post did not announce it before the fact-after the fact is irrelevant since they only chose to attack it. I saw the viewing at Newseum.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Henry's Cat

    The Magnitsky Act: Behind the Scenes,” produced by Russian filmmaker Andrei Nekrasov. The documentary had been blocked in Europe through lawsuits filed by some of the parties linked to the prevailing narrative..
     
    Is this film commercially available anywhere? If not, why isn't it on YouTube, or any other video-sharing site outside the purview of European courts?

    Perhaps Mr. Giraldi could explain more about Browder's involvement in the film, and his reaction when Nekrasov began to go off script. Did he seek to address Nekrasov's concerns? Did he try and scupper the release of the film? Was the film privately financed?

    One really can't begin to make sense of things without a lot more knowledge of said affairs.

    Henry – Bob Parry goes into the film much more deeply that I did. His article will likely answer all your questions: https://consortiumnews.com/2017/08/02/a-blacklisted-film-and-the-new-cold-war/. I will have a new article on the story here at Unz on Tuesday. As far as I can tell, the film is not available anywhere due to lawsuits filed by Browder.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Henry's Cat
    Mr. Giraldi, you wrote:

    A number of Congressmen and staffers were invited to the showing of the Nekrasov documentary at the Newseum but it is not clear if any of them actually bothered to attend, demonstrating once again how America’s legislature operates inside a bubble of willful ignorance of its own making. Nor was the event reported in the local “newspaper of record” the Washington Post, which has been consistently hostile to Russia on its editorial and news pages.
     
    But the Parry piece you linked to says different: After the Newseum presentation, a Washington Post editorial branded Nekrasov’s documentary Russian “agit-prop” and sought to discredit Nekrasov without addressing his many documented examples of Browder’s misrepresenting both big and small facts in the case. I trust you won't make a distinction between reportage and an editorial.

    Your reference to Browder being subpoenaed with regard to "allegations connected to the Magnitsky fraud that are making their way through American courts" require more substance. Perhaps you'll address that on Tuesday.

    As for the availability of the film, how did you get to see it? Parry says it's hiding on Vimeo.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @geokat62

    ... and in part because editors deem this story as other than important at this time.
     
    Kind'a like the story that broke in the alternative media a few years back about Snowden's disclosure that the NSA had contracted out spying on Americans to their Israeli counterpart and how the editor of the NYT (the paper of [false] record) refused to cover it? Something along those lines?

    Here's a previous comment of mine:

    And we only found out about this secret MOU because Edward Snowden was courageous enough to disclose it. You would think that this bombshell of a story would be reported on the front page of the NYT, the so-called newspaper of record, right? Here’s what Margaret Sullivan of the NYT wrote shortly after the disclosure:

    After… no mention was made in The Times of the article, I asked the managing editor, Dean Baquet, about it on Monday morning.

    “I didn’t think it was a significant or surprising story,” he said. “I think the more energy we put into chasing the small ones, the less time we have to break our own. Not to mention cover the turmoil in Syria.”

    So, I asked him, by e-mail, was this essentially a question of reporting resources? After all, The Times could have published an article written by a wire service, like Reuters or The Associated Press.

    “I’d say resources and news judgment,” he responded.

    In a world with many news outlets, he said: “We can spend all our time matching stories, and not actually covering the news. This one was modest and didn’t feel worth taking someone off greater enterprise.
     
    http://publiceditor.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/09/16/guardian-story-on-israel-and-n-s-a-is-not-surprising-enough-to-cover/?_r=0
     
    Corvy, you keep waiting for the Lugenpresse of Weimerica (LOW) to report the truth. The irony is the Russian people came to realize their newspapers were telling them lies. I wonder how long it will take the average American to reach the same conclusion? Judging by a few of the commenters here, it may never happen.

    “Kind’a like the story that broke in the alternative media a few years back about Snowden’s disclosure that the NSA had contracted out spying on Americans to their Israeli counterpart and how the editor of the NYT (the paper of [false] record) refused to cover it? Something along those lines?”

    Which alternative media source? How credible? What exactly was reported? How was that information obtained? Right or wrong, fair or unfair, these questions are taking into account by editors, regardless it is NYT or Fox News, and are standard operating procedures in the modern corporate news business on what stories to report immediately or later on.

    “The irony is the Russian people came to realize their newspapers were telling them lies.”

    Not surprisingly because the media there is state-run. There are other factors involved.

    http://www.newsweek.com/majority-russians-do-not-trust-national-media-510682

    “Corvy, you keep waiting for the Lugenpresse of Weimerica (LOW) to report the truth.”

    News today is driven by a desired narrative, moreso than in decades past. You have the left and the right who craft a story based on facts, with each side serving as a political evangelical to promote their interpretation. There are truths found here. Unfortunately, large segments of our society has been conditioned by social media “sensations”, reality television “stars”, and ratings driven media conglomerates to reject evidence that challenges their beliefs. They do it instinctively when confronted with attitude-inconsistent information. When someone attempts to inform them of their misconceptions, rather than take it under advisement, it “backfires”, which in effect makes them less skeptical of what they believe in, since obviously the other side is rife with their own false impressions. Thus, one continues to see their own position as “true and proper”. Of course, the argument stems from what is and what is not a misconception, whether it be “race realism” or “white privilege”, which ends up being a feedback loop.

    For example, consider this exchange on 60 Minutes.

    Cernovich–”How do you know Hillary had pneumonia?”
    Pelley–”The campaign said so.”
    Cernovich–”Why do you believe in the campaign?”

    On one hand, it is absolutely legitimate for Cernovich to question Pelley on why he is certain about Hillary’s medical problem. Pelley is taking her word at face value. On the other hand, Cernovich is ASSUMING that he knows for sure her health issues, and that any answer to the contrary automatically leads to his desired conclusion–the media is covering something up.

    Imagine if Pelley responded “Two independent doctors confirmed she has pneumonia”. Cervonich could have replied, and it is within the realm of possibility given his personality, “Well, they are in her hip pocket. She paid for their diagnosis. See, I do not have to prove that she suffers from seizures, you have to show she does not suffer from seizures”. Wayne Gale, the reporter in Natural Born Killers (1994) played by Robert Downey, Jr. demonstrates how modern journalism has evolved. The playbook implemented by Cernovich (and Keith Olbermann) pay homage to his tactics.

    It is virtually impossible to have reasonable conversations with people who cling on this “Fake New” or “media lies” meme. Any fact you bring as an argument, they immediately attack the SOURCE, rather than the substance. Thus, it is easy to deny there is ANY evidence at all. This phenomenon has been brewing for a long time, and it has reached a critical mass at our point in world history. Unfortunately, this leads more people to become ignorant by facilitating echo chambers and confirmation bias. Rather than yell at the top of one’s lungs “Fake News” when they read a mainstream or alternative media story, and immediately discount everything, people ought look CRITICALLY at the facts, consider any bias, read other sources on the issue, and then draw their own conclusions.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Skeptikal
    "Rather than yell at the top of one’s lungs “Fake News” when they read a mainstream or alternative media story, and immediately discount everything, people ought look CRITICALLY at the facts, consider any bias, read other sources on the issue, and then draw their own conclusions."

    Absolutely. And those who are crying "fake news" the most often and the most loudly and using that phrase to discredit anything they do not want to rebut with actual informatoin---those people are the most suspect. Just like those who cry "conspiracy theory" whenever they see a hypothesis that they do not want to have investigated and want to derail. It would not surprise me at all to learn that both of these phrases were cooked up in some corner of Langley to use to get control of the media. Instead of "dissidents" being labeled schizophrenic and sent to psychiatric wards, as in the USSR, they are labeled as conspiracy theorists and purveyors of "fake news" and the effect is about the same, minus the cost of upkeep in a ward.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • The Magnitsky Act: Behind the Scenes,” produced by Russian filmmaker Andrei Nekrasov. The documentary had been blocked in Europe through lawsuits filed by some of the parties linked to the prevailing narrative..

    Is this film commercially available anywhere? If not, why isn’t it on YouTube, or any other video-sharing site outside the purview of European courts?

    Perhaps Mr. Giraldi could explain more about Browder’s involvement in the film, and his reaction when Nekrasov began to go off script. Did he seek to address Nekrasov’s concerns? Did he try and scupper the release of the film? Was the film privately financed?

    One really can’t begin to make sense of things without a lot more knowledge of said affairs.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Philip Giraldi
    Henry - Bob Parry goes into the film much more deeply that I did. His article will likely answer all your questions: https://consortiumnews.com/2017/08/02/a-blacklisted-film-and-the-new-cold-war/. I will have a new article on the story here at Unz on Tuesday. As far as I can tell, the film is not available anywhere due to lawsuits filed by Browder.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • People fear NSA, next Israel.
    Nobody protects USA.
    New York Times lies.
    More bread. More circuses.

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    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • … and in part because editors deem this story as other than important at this time.

    Kind’a like the story that broke in the alternative media a few years back about Snowden’s disclosure that the NSA had contracted out spying on Americans to their Israeli counterpart and how the editor of the NYT (the paper of [false] record) refused to cover it? Something along those lines?

    Here’s a previous comment of mine:

    And we only found out about this secret MOU because Edward Snowden was courageous enough to disclose it. You would think that this bombshell of a story would be reported on the front page of the NYT, the so-called newspaper of record, right? Here’s what Margaret Sullivan of the NYT wrote shortly after the disclosure:

    After… no mention was made in The Times of the article, I asked the managing editor, Dean Baquet, about it on Monday morning.

    “I didn’t think it was a significant or surprising story,” he said. “I think the more energy we put into chasing the small ones, the less time we have to break our own. Not to mention cover the turmoil in Syria.”

    So, I asked him, by e-mail, was this essentially a question of reporting resources? After all, The Times could have published an article written by a wire service, like Reuters or The Associated Press.

    “I’d say resources and news judgment,” he responded.

    In a world with many news outlets, he said: “We can spend all our time matching stories, and not actually covering the news. This one was modest and didn’t feel worth taking someone off greater enterprise.

    http://publiceditor.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/09/16/guardian-story-on-israel-and-n-s-a-is-not-surprising-enough-to-cover/?_r=0

    Corvy, you keep waiting for the Lugenpresse of Weimerica (LOW) to report the truth. The irony is the Russian people came to realize their newspapers were telling them lies. I wonder how long it will take the average American to reach the same conclusion? Judging by a few of the commenters here, it may never happen.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "Kind’a like the story that broke in the alternative media a few years back about Snowden’s disclosure that the NSA had contracted out spying on Americans to their Israeli counterpart and how the editor of the NYT (the paper of [false] record) refused to cover it? Something along those lines?"

    Which alternative media source? How credible? What exactly was reported? How was that information obtained? Right or wrong, fair or unfair, these questions are taking into account by editors, regardless it is NYT or Fox News, and are standard operating procedures in the modern corporate news business on what stories to report immediately or later on.

    "The irony is the Russian people came to realize their newspapers were telling them lies."

    Not surprisingly because the media there is state-run. There are other factors involved.

    http://www.newsweek.com/majority-russians-do-not-trust-national-media-510682

    "Corvy, you keep waiting for the Lugenpresse of Weimerica (LOW) to report the truth."

    News today is driven by a desired narrative, moreso than in decades past. You have the left and the right who craft a story based on facts, with each side serving as a political evangelical to promote their interpretation. There are truths found here. Unfortunately, large segments of our society has been conditioned by social media “sensations”, reality television “stars”, and ratings driven media conglomerates to reject evidence that challenges their beliefs. They do it instinctively when confronted with attitude-inconsistent information. When someone attempts to inform them of their misconceptions, rather than take it under advisement, it “backfires”, which in effect makes them less skeptical of what they believe in, since obviously the other side is rife with their own false impressions. Thus, one continues to see their own position as “true and proper”. Of course, the argument stems from what is and what is not a misconception, whether it be “race realism” or “white privilege”, which ends up being a feedback loop.

    For example, consider this exchange on 60 Minutes.

    Cernovich--"How do you know Hillary had pneumonia?"
    Pelley--"The campaign said so."
    Cernovich--”Why do you believe in the campaign?”

    On one hand, it is absolutely legitimate for Cernovich to question Pelley on why he is certain about Hillary’s medical problem. Pelley is taking her word at face value. On the other hand, Cernovich is ASSUMING that he knows for sure her health issues, and that any answer to the contrary automatically leads to his desired conclusion--the media is covering something up.

    Imagine if Pelley responded “Two independent doctors confirmed she has pneumonia”. Cervonich could have replied, and it is within the realm of possibility given his personality, “Well, they are in her hip pocket. She paid for their diagnosis. See, I do not have to prove that she suffers from seizures, you have to show she does not suffer from seizures”. Wayne Gale, the reporter in Natural Born Killers (1994) played by Robert Downey, Jr. demonstrates how modern journalism has evolved. The playbook implemented by Cernovich (and Keith Olbermann) pay homage to his tactics.

    It is virtually impossible to have reasonable conversations with people who cling on this “Fake New” or “media lies” meme. Any fact you bring as an argument, they immediately attack the SOURCE, rather than the substance. Thus, it is easy to deny there is ANY evidence at all. This phenomenon has been brewing for a long time, and it has reached a critical mass at our point in world history. Unfortunately, this leads more people to become ignorant by facilitating echo chambers and confirmation bias. Rather than yell at the top of one’s lungs “Fake News” when they read a mainstream or alternative media story, and immediately discount everything, people ought look CRITICALLY at the facts, consider any bias, read other sources on the issue, and then draw their own conclusions.

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • “Months? You’ve got to be joking. This will be dragged out until next year’s mid-terms at least, if not the 2020 election. Corvy, sorry to disappoint you, but there is no there, there.”

    In reality, you nor I no for certain if there is nothing there. You can speculate, but that’s it.

    “If you’d paid closer attention, you would know this. Why aren’t you familiar with this blockbuster news story:”

    I have read this story. It is indeed interesting, and I do not dismiss their contentions. You do realize that his group is also not privy to certain information that Mueller and his team have in the possession. What they say may very well be true. However, in the coming months, we will find out to what extent is their analysis accurate.

    Remember, the investigations being conducted right now are more than simply “hacking” an election.

    “Don’t you find it rather peculiar that the “mainstream media have ignored the findings of these independent studies”?”

    Probably in part because there is an ongoing investigation, in part that the ideas offered is quite technical in nature, with few reporters skilled enough to present it a way that the public will understand, and in part because editors deem this story as other than important at this time.

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  • @Corvinus
    "The purpose was not to find facts. It was to vilify Putin as the next Hilter."

    Thank you very much for your opinion on this matter.

    "The Lobby has a stranglehold over the American political system..."

    Yes, those Jews are everywhere. They are even hiding under your bed. Boo!

    "and you’re obsessed with what those dastardly Ruskies are up to."

    Allegedly Trump was obsessed with those Russians in a number of ways. Again, in the coming months, we will find out. Feel free to have the blinders on in the meantime. But what I do know is that if the investigations ends up bearing little fruit, the Republicans and conservatives will clean up in the next decade with the voters, and deservedly so.

    Yes, those Jews are everywhere. They are even hiding under your bed. Boo!

    Under my bed? Try at the top of this page.

    Again, in the coming months, we will find out.

    Months? You’ve got to be joking. This will be dragged out until next year’s mid-terms at least, if not the 2020 election. Corvy, sorry to disappoint you, but there is no there, there.

    If you’d paid closer attention, you would know this. Why aren’t you familiar with this blockbuster news story:

    Intel Vets Challenge ‘Russia Hack’ Evidence
    July 24, 2017

    In a memo to President Trump, a group of former U.S. intelligence officers, including NSA specialists, cite new forensic studies to challenge the claim of the key Jan. 6 “assessment” that Russia “hacked” Democratic emails last year.

    MEMORANDUM FOR: The President

    FROM: Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity (VIPS)

    SUBJECT: Was the “Russian Hack” an Inside Job?

    Executive Summary

    Forensic studies of “Russian hacking” into Democratic National Committee computers last year reveal that on July 5, 2016, data was leaked (not hacked) by a person with physical access to DNC computers, and then doctored to incriminate Russia.

    After examining metadata from the “Guccifer 2.0” July 5, 2016 intrusion into the DNC server, independent cyber investigators have concluded that an insider copied DNC data onto an external storage device, and that “telltale signs” implicating Russia were then inserted.

    Key among the findings of the independent forensic investigations is the conclusion that the DNC data was copied onto a storage device at a speed that far exceeds an Internet capability for a remote hack. Of equal importance, the forensics show that the copying and doctoring were performed on the East coast of the U.S. Thus far, mainstream media have ignored the findings of these independent studies [see here and here].

    https://consortiumnews.com/2017/07/24/intel-vets-challenge-russia-hack-evidence/

    Pretty interesting stuff, hey Corvy. Don’t you find it rather peculiar that the “mainstream media have ignored the findings of these independent studies”?

    Why would that be, Corvy? Any hypotheses?

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  • @Alfred
    "Sergei Magnitsky was a Russian lawyer"

    Sorry. He was an accountant. He never studied law. He is not a qualified lawyer in Russia or anywhere else. Please stop repeating this piece of fiction. His speciality was tax-avoidance.

    The cop who was accused of mistreating him started a libel case in London over this matter. The English judge decided that since this Russian policeman had no reputation to protect in the UK, the case cannot proceed.

    Sorry. He was an accountant. He never studied law. He is not a qualified lawyer in Russia or anywhere else. Please stop repeating this piece of fiction. His speciality was tax-avoidance.

    But Browder “solemnly, sincerely and truly affirmed” that he was his lawyer, as part of his compelling and unwavering testimony before the Senste Judiciary Committee, right Corvy?

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  • “Sergei Magnitsky was a Russian lawyer”

    Sorry. He was an accountant. He never studied law. He is not a qualified lawyer in Russia or anywhere else. Please stop repeating this piece of fiction. His speciality was tax-avoidance.

    The cop who was accused of mistreating him started a libel case in London over this matter. The English judge decided that since this Russian policeman had no reputation to protect in the UK, the case cannot proceed.

    Read More
    • Replies: @geokat62

    Sorry. He was an accountant. He never studied law. He is not a qualified lawyer in Russia or anywhere else. Please stop repeating this piece of fiction. His speciality was tax-avoidance.
     
    But Browder “solemnly, sincerely and truly affirmed” that he was his lawyer, as part of his compelling and unwavering testimony before the Senste Judiciary Committee, right Corvy?
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @rod1963
    A question. Before we murdered Qadaffi, he and his family were reputed to have socked away in European banks some $60 billion. What happened to all that money when he and his family were killed off or imprisoned?

    Qaddafi … were reputed to have socked away in European banks some $60 billion

    LOL, you believe those neo-con lies, do you? Qaddafi elevated Libya from Africa’s poorest to Africa’s most prosperous country. He built a massive (and expensive) water pipeline to irrigate the Libyan desert and make Libya food self-sufficient.

    Here’s a short but excellent video showing Qaddai making an unannounced trip through Libya during the NATO bombing terror campaign in 2011 (he couldn’t announce it as snipers would have lined his route – NATO, the most powerful military alliance in history, was trying to assassinate him, eventually succeeding) – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJURNC0e6Ek. See how the people adore him! (The editor has superimposed text and music – the original, unedited video of the motorcade is at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvnM1Dg8pxI).

    Each Libyan got a free home.

    Libyans got free health care and education.

    Qaddafi lived in a tent a lot.

    The neo-con scum are the ones who loot the world. They accuse others of their own sins and crimes to get people like you to hate them and do the neo-con’s evil bidding.

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  • @Sebastian Puettmann
    Sorry but I cannot possibly read all 100 comments. And I have only been researching this topic for a short time. Here is my current position to Mr. Browder's claims.

    I think Mr. Browder in his speeches makes a compelling arguement regarding his honest history of investing in Russia. He may even have, at some point, cooperated with western intelligence services who are always in the need for good information. But I doubt Mr. Browder was an economic hitman out to destroy Russia.

    I am interested in the information of filmmaker Andrei Nekrasov, but I do not think one can call it Magnitsky Hoax, yet. The information given by Mr. Giraldi and the commenters does not convince me so far. And Nekrasov's movie being blocked in Europe is no proof that his information is correct. It may just be EU-politics.

    I am not surprised that American politicians jumped on sanctions against the Russian state mafia. I am more surprised that the Americans actually can get something done.

    By the way, I am actually shocked by so many anti-jewish comments. As a German, let me tell you, that when you kick out smart and educated people you will lose in the long run. Your enemies are not wealthy Jews who see investments opportunities first. At the most, your enemies might be radical leftists in the media and academia. And most of them are not Jews.

    “Your enemies are not wealthy Jews who see investments opportunities first.”

    You sir, must be one those who was indeed “born yesterday.” ;D

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  • anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @rod1963
    A question. Before we murdered Qadaffi, he and his family were reputed to have socked away in European banks some $60 billion. What happened to all that money when he and his family were killed off or imprisoned?

    Just a small example of how the christian (their boast) west has systematically looted the world, for God only knows how long. Is it any wonder that they have built such elaborate cities and succeeded in so many fields?

    Immense success through ill gotten wealth, by the most immoral people, with the best masks.

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  • @peterike

    You guys think everybody you don’t like is a Jew.

     

    Completely untrue. It just turns out about 90% of the time that they are.

    And the other 10% are gunning to be honorary Jews, like John McHopeHeDiesInProlongedTerriblyMiserablePainC*ntInsaneBrain .

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  • @Boris N
    It's a pity that doublespeak and doublethink rule the world. Every time you read something you now must decipher.

    "Foreign non-governmental pro-democracy groups" means absolutely different things than it is stated. We must read "foreign" as "American", "non-governmental" as "uncontroled by the Russian government, but sponsored by the US government", and "pro-democracy" as "pro-US".

    There is nothing democratic in these groups. Everything they say is a lie. They do not want at all democracy for Russians. Because if there were democracy in Russia, then Browder and other foreign carpetbaggers were shot dead by popular vote. Or at least they could never come to Russia and rob it as they have been doing. And they all know it. They do not want freedom and human right for Russians. By "freedom" these groups understand the freedom for THEM and THEIR friends, and by "human right" they understand the rights for THEM and THEIR friends.

    But the real problem is the Russian government do not want good for Russians as well. This entire conflict is between the native colonial administration and the foreign carpetbaggers. And the main point is who'll get the cash, either Browder and his friends or some unknown Russian oligarchs and corrupt officials. But both the results are bad for Russians.

    you know, there are people who say the 1979 Revolution was in essense a bourgeois revolution under an Islamic sauce (or anesthetic) and the conflicts between the West and Iran should be regarded as an internecine conflict between various brands of pro-Western (and ultimately, anti-Persian people) colonialists.

    hence why it’s hard for me to see this “liberalism sucks but so does Putin” opinion and claims of complete continuity between Yeltsin and Putin as anything but concern trolling.

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  • @Boris N
    It's a pity that doublespeak and doublethink rule the world. Every time you read something you now must decipher.

    "Foreign non-governmental pro-democracy groups" means absolutely different things than it is stated. We must read "foreign" as "American", "non-governmental" as "uncontroled by the Russian government, but sponsored by the US government", and "pro-democracy" as "pro-US".

    There is nothing democratic in these groups. Everything they say is a lie. They do not want at all democracy for Russians. Because if there were democracy in Russia, then Browder and other foreign carpetbaggers were shot dead by popular vote. Or at least they could never come to Russia and rob it as they have been doing. And they all know it. They do not want freedom and human right for Russians. By "freedom" these groups understand the freedom for THEM and THEIR friends, and by "human right" they understand the rights for THEM and THEIR friends.

    But the real problem is the Russian government do not want good for Russians as well. This entire conflict is between the native colonial administration and the foreign carpetbaggers. And the main point is who'll get the cash, either Browder and his friends or some unknown Russian oligarchs and corrupt officials. But both the results are bad for Russians.

    But the real problem is the Russian government do not want good for Russians as well.

    I think the whole Crimea business though showed that Putin has some geopolitical vision. He didn’t need any of the stuff that followed. So he can’t be purely a comprador and a time-server.

    And I don’t see how the Russian government is colonial and to whom (except in the sense that elites tax farming a working population, i.e. the whole system of wage labor, is colonial.) Putin does seem to try to preserve what little has been left of the USSR, basic research, defense, which IMO is about as anti-colonial and close to “wanting good for the people” as it gets.

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  • @geokat62

    The purpose was to find facts. There was a specific purpose in mind.
     
    The purpose was not to find facts. It was to vilify Putin as the next Hilter.

    It’s not about Jews, it’s about specific Russians and their relationship with Trump.
     
    You are so clueless, it isn't funny. The Lobby has a stranglehold over the American political system and you're obsessed with what those dastardly Ruskies are up to.

    Just keep watching the Lugenpresse of Weimerica and I'm sure you'll be able to connect the dots... if not this millennium, then the next.

    Focus on the substance. You are emphasizing peripherals.
     
    Look who's talking!

    “The purpose was not to find facts. It was to vilify Putin as the next Hilter.”

    Thank you very much for your opinion on this matter.

    “The Lobby has a stranglehold over the American political system…”

    Yes, those Jews are everywhere. They are even hiding under your bed. Boo!

    “and you’re obsessed with what those dastardly Ruskies are up to.”

    Allegedly Trump was obsessed with those Russians in a number of ways. Again, in the coming months, we will find out. Feel free to have the blinders on in the meantime. But what I do know is that if the investigations ends up bearing little fruit, the Republicans and conservatives will clean up in the next decade with the voters, and deservedly so.

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    • Replies: @geokat62

    Yes, those Jews are everywhere. They are even hiding under your bed. Boo!
     
    Under my bed? Try at the top of this page.

    Again, in the coming months, we will find out.
     
    Months? You've got to be joking. This will be dragged out until next year's mid-terms at least, if not the 2020 election. Corvy, sorry to disappoint you, but there is no there, there.

    If you'd paid closer attention, you would know this. Why aren't you familiar with this blockbuster news story:


    Intel Vets Challenge ‘Russia Hack’ Evidence
    July 24, 2017

    In a memo to President Trump, a group of former U.S. intelligence officers, including NSA specialists, cite new forensic studies to challenge the claim of the key Jan. 6 “assessment” that Russia “hacked” Democratic emails last year.


    MEMORANDUM FOR: The President

    FROM: Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity (VIPS)

    SUBJECT: Was the “Russian Hack” an Inside Job?

    Executive Summary

    Forensic studies of “Russian hacking” into Democratic National Committee computers last year reveal that on July 5, 2016, data was leaked (not hacked) by a person with physical access to DNC computers, and then doctored to incriminate Russia.

    After examining metadata from the “Guccifer 2.0” July 5, 2016 intrusion into the DNC server, independent cyber investigators have concluded that an insider copied DNC data onto an external storage device, and that “telltale signs” implicating Russia were then inserted.

    Key among the findings of the independent forensic investigations is the conclusion that the DNC data was copied onto a storage device at a speed that far exceeds an Internet capability for a remote hack. Of equal importance, the forensics show that the copying and doctoring were performed on the East coast of the U.S. Thus far, mainstream media have ignored the findings of these independent studies [see here and here].

    https://consortiumnews.com/2017/07/24/intel-vets-challenge-russia-hack-evidence/
     

    Pretty interesting stuff, hey Corvy. Don't you find it rather peculiar that the "mainstream media have ignored the findings of these independent studies"?

    Why would that be, Corvy? Any hypotheses?

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  • @MarkinLA
    Nobody's testimony is real proof of anything. What does he have to back up his testimony? Nothing but his "sacred honor".

    Trump has been all over the world, especially Eastern Europe. Allegedly, underage sex slaves were procured there through Trump Modeling.

    Imagine, modeling agencies going where the prettiest girls in the world are. This is obviously proof of a crime. Trump like any big agency has people scouting for him. Trump doesn't see them in person until they back to NYC.

    It is amazing that you are so willing to believe such drivel without any proof.

    “Nobody’s testimony is real proof of anything. What does he have to back up his testimony? Nothing but his “sacred honor”.”

    Quit stalling. First, offer your criteria for “real proof”. Second, provide specific instances in how and why his testimony fails to meet that criteria. Prove your assertion.

    “It is amazing that you are so willing to believe such drivel without any proof.”

    You mean “real proof”.

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  • @Corvinus
    "Seriously, Trump wanting to create a modeling agency of the likes of Elite and Wilhelmina is supposed to be a front for prostitution and call girls who are sex slaves?

    That is the allegation. Jeffrey Epstein is apparently involved.

    "Give Trump some credit, high end call girls are anything but sex slaves. Sex slaves usually come from places Trump would never even visit."

    Trump has been all over the world, especially Eastern Europe. Allegedly, underage sex slaves were procured there through Trump Modeling.

    "What is your definition of “real proof”? Well it certainly isn’t the testimony of some highly suspect scumbag like Browder.""

    Ok, first you are going to have to offer your criteria for "real proof". Second, you are going to have to offer specific instances in how and why his testimony fails to meet that criteria. Are you up to it?

    Nobody’s testimony is real proof of anything. What does he have to back up his testimony? Nothing but his “sacred honor”.

    Trump has been all over the world, especially Eastern Europe. Allegedly, underage sex slaves were procured there through Trump Modeling.

    Imagine, modeling agencies going where the prettiest girls in the world are. This is obviously proof of a crime. Trump like any big agency has people scouting for him. Trump doesn’t see them in person until they back to NYC.

    It is amazing that you are so willing to believe such drivel without any proof.

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    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "Nobody’s testimony is real proof of anything. What does he have to back up his testimony? Nothing but his “sacred honor”."

    Quit stalling. First, offer your criteria for “real proof”. Second, provide specific instances in how and why his testimony fails to meet that criteria. Prove your assertion.

    "It is amazing that you are so willing to believe such drivel without any proof."

    You mean "real proof".

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • The purpose was to find facts. There was a specific purpose in mind.

    The purpose was not to find facts. It was to vilify Putin as the next Hilter.

    It’s not about Jews, it’s about specific Russians and their relationship with Trump.

    You are so clueless, it isn’t funny. The Lobby has a stranglehold over the American political system and you’re obsessed with what those dastardly Ruskies are up to.

    Just keep watching the Lugenpresse of Weimerica and I’m sure you’ll be able to connect the dots… if not this millennium, then the next.

    Focus on the substance. You are emphasizing peripherals.

    Look who’s talking!

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    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "The purpose was not to find facts. It was to vilify Putin as the next Hilter."

    Thank you very much for your opinion on this matter.

    "The Lobby has a stranglehold over the American political system..."

    Yes, those Jews are everywhere. They are even hiding under your bed. Boo!

    "and you’re obsessed with what those dastardly Ruskies are up to."

    Allegedly Trump was obsessed with those Russians in a number of ways. Again, in the coming months, we will find out. Feel free to have the blinders on in the meantime. But what I do know is that if the investigations ends up bearing little fruit, the Republicans and conservatives will clean up in the next decade with the voters, and deservedly so.
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  • @Rehmat
    Sergei Magnitsky like the US and EU was a Zionist clown whose strings were held by the Organized Jewry.

    In November 2015, in an interview with UK's No.1 Israeli propaganda media outlet, 'Jewish Chronicle', William Browder, the American-born Jewish tycoon who describes himself as Putin's "number one enemy" in his book: Red Notice, claimed that though Putin had met Netanyahu, Avigdor Lieberman, and local Jewish leaders; supports Israel and donated $1 million to Moscow's Holocaust Museum - his heart is filled with hatred towards Jews. Why? Because he tortured and killed Magnitsky and supports Iran's ally Assad.

    Madeleine Albright, who found her Jewish family roots while holding post of US secretary of state, in a recent interview she gave to Austrian newspaper DiePress.com called Russian president Vladimir Putin “a smart but a truly evil man.” She claimed that Putin is trying his best to destroy European Union and NATO, two of Israel’s allies.

    “He is smart but truly an evil man. An officer of KGB, who wants to exercise power and believes that every body has come together to conspire against Russia. This is not true. Putin is playing bad cards well, for the time being at least. I believe his goal is to undermine and split EU. He want NATO to disappear from his sphere of influence,” She said.

    https://rehmat1.com/2016/04/24/madeleine-albright-putin-is-an-evil-man/

    Hey rehmat you still around. Figured you’d be deported already. Trump got his eye on you boy.

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  • @MarkinLA
    The NYAG is looking into human sex trafficking and money laundering against Trump Model Management.

    Seriously, Trump wanting to create a modeling agency of the likes of Elite and Wilhelmina is supposed to be a front for prostitution and call girls who are sex slaves? Give Trump some credit, high end call girls are anything but sex slaves. Sex slaves usually come from places Trump would never even visit.

    What is your definition of “real proof”?

    Well it certainly isn't the testimony of some highly suspect scumbag like Browder.

    “Seriously, Trump wanting to create a modeling agency of the likes of Elite and Wilhelmina is supposed to be a front for prostitution and call girls who are sex slaves?

    That is the allegation. Jeffrey Epstein is apparently involved.

    “Give Trump some credit, high end call girls are anything but sex slaves. Sex slaves usually come from places Trump would never even visit.”

    Trump has been all over the world, especially Eastern Europe. Allegedly, underage sex slaves were procured there through Trump Modeling.

    “What is your definition of “real proof”? Well it certainly isn’t the testimony of some highly suspect scumbag like Browder.””

    Ok, first you are going to have to offer your criteria for “real proof”. Second, you are going to have to offer specific instances in how and why his testimony fails to meet that criteria. Are you up to it?

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    • Replies: @MarkinLA
    Nobody's testimony is real proof of anything. What does he have to back up his testimony? Nothing but his "sacred honor".

    Trump has been all over the world, especially Eastern Europe. Allegedly, underage sex slaves were procured there through Trump Modeling.

    Imagine, modeling agencies going where the prettiest girls in the world are. This is obviously proof of a crime. Trump like any big agency has people scouting for him. Trump doesn't see them in person until they back to NYC.

    It is amazing that you are so willing to believe such drivel without any proof.

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  • “It was unwavering because there was no one their to contradict his statements.”

    The purpose was to find facts. There was a specific purpose in mind. If there is a criminal case against Trump, Browder may testify and be subject to cross examination by lawyers. Regardless, his testimony was unwavering.

    “For those who haven’t been drinking the Zionist kool-aid…”

    It’s not about Jews, it’s about specific Russians and their relationship with Trump. If you want to believe it’s about Jews, you are entitled to your opinion.

    Focus on the substance. You are emphasizing peripherals.

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  • @Corvinus
    "I did see part of that nonsense and later when he was on Tucker Carlson. What was the purpose of putting somebody on who admitted he had no firsthand knowledge about Russian hacking the election?"

    You do realize that there are several investigations taking place that seemingly are linked together.
    The NYAG is looking into human sex trafficking and money laundering against Trump Model Management. Mueller is looking into money laundering and collusion against Trump and his compatriots. It's more than just "hacking".

    "He kept implying that all of his problems in Russia had direct connections to Putin (without any real proof)."

    What is your definition of "real proof"?

    "He was only there to plant some kind of seed in the minds of idiots that Putin is the master who overseas everything that happens in Russia. Therefore, if Russia was involved (with still no proof), then Putin must be involved."

    Put it this way--the NYAG and Mueller have ONE shot at establishing an air tight case. They are being meticulous in their evidence gathering. They are leaving no stone unturned. In conspiracy cases, you work outward first, then inward. Mueller in particular has been bringing in experts in several areas. And, remember, there were people on Trump's team that had been under the surveillance of the FBI prior to Trump's nomination and election.

    No one knows truly what these two prosecutors have in their evidence bag. Could be a little, could be a lot. But Trump and his team put themselves in this situation.

    What I do know is that it is going to take probably months, if not a couple of years, to sort everything out.

    The NYAG is looking into human sex trafficking and money laundering against Trump Model Management.

    Seriously, Trump wanting to create a modeling agency of the likes of Elite and Wilhelmina is supposed to be a front for prostitution and call girls who are sex slaves? Give Trump some credit, high end call girls are anything but sex slaves. Sex slaves usually come from places Trump would never even visit.

    What is your definition of “real proof”?

    Well it certainly isn’t the testimony of some highly suspect scumbag like Browder.

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    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "Seriously, Trump wanting to create a modeling agency of the likes of Elite and Wilhelmina is supposed to be a front for prostitution and call girls who are sex slaves?

    That is the allegation. Jeffrey Epstein is apparently involved.

    "Give Trump some credit, high end call girls are anything but sex slaves. Sex slaves usually come from places Trump would never even visit."

    Trump has been all over the world, especially Eastern Europe. Allegedly, underage sex slaves were procured there through Trump Modeling.

    "What is your definition of “real proof”? Well it certainly isn’t the testimony of some highly suspect scumbag like Browder.""

    Ok, first you are going to have to offer your criteria for "real proof". Second, you are going to have to offer specific instances in how and why his testimony fails to meet that criteria. Are you up to it?
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  • @Corvinus
    "Why would someone who is purportedly telling the truth run away from someone who is trying to serve him a subpoena to appear in court?"

    You probably will be asking that question to members of Trump's team in the coming months.

    Regardless, as I stated earlier, Browder undoubtedly tried to make money through questionable, or even illegal means. And in the end, his testimony was unwavering.

    “In one case he can be seen on YouTube running away from a server, somewhat unusual behavior if he has nothing to hide.”

    It is other than unusual for people who are guilty of something to avoid potential negative consequences, whether it be a five-year-old boy who took some cookies when he wasn't suppose to or whether it be an older man who was engaged in fraudulent activities.

    He had little to hide once he was secured by the legal system and compelled to testify. Again, his testimony was unwavering.

    He had little to hide once he was secured by the legal system and compelled to testify.

    Which legal system are you referring to? Not the Senate Judiciary Hearing, I hope? If so, you must have been impressed by the grilling to which Bill Browder, the witness, was exposed. He looked like he was about to melt sitting in the hot seat for over an hour and a half. The cross-examining was relentless.

    Again, his testimony was unwavering.

    It was unwavering because there was no one their to contradict his statements. Which member of the Judiciary committee would you say posed the most difficult questions to Bill Browder? That was no proceeding of the legal system, it was a Putin hate fest, joined in by every single member of the committee.

    The irony of the subject matter before the committee could not have been any greater. Bill Browder filing a compliant under FARA that representatives of the Russian government were trying to influence US gov’t policy by attempting to lift the Magnitsky sanctions. For those who haven’t been drinking the Zionist kool-aid, it is incredible to witness a hearing investigating interference by a foreign government (in this case Russia), while the whole political system is beholden to the Zionist Lobby and no one is questioning why they are not required to register under FARA. You have to be totally politically ignorant not to see the incredible irony in that. Could you even imagine these illustrious members of the Judicial Committee putting pointed questions to a witness of The Lobby seeking to expose it to the light of day. Hell will freeze over before any of us witness a day like that.

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  • @MarkinLA
    I did see part of that nonsense and later when he was on Tucker Carlson. What was the purpose of putting somebody on who admitted he had no firsthand knowledge about Russian hacking the election? He kept implying that all of his problems in Russia had direct connections to Putin (without any real proof). He was only there to plant some kind of seed in the minds of idiots that Putin is the master who overseas everything that happens in Russia. Therefore, if Russia was involved (with still no proof), then Putin must be involved.

    “I did see part of that nonsense and later when he was on Tucker Carlson. What was the purpose of putting somebody on who admitted he had no firsthand knowledge about Russian hacking the election?”

    You do realize that there are several investigations taking place that seemingly are linked together.
    The NYAG is looking into human sex trafficking and money laundering against Trump Model Management. Mueller is looking into money laundering and collusion against Trump and his compatriots. It’s more than just “hacking”.

    “He kept implying that all of his problems in Russia had direct connections to Putin (without any real proof).”

    What is your definition of “real proof”?

    “He was only there to plant some kind of seed in the minds of idiots that Putin is the master who overseas everything that happens in Russia. Therefore, if Russia was involved (with still no proof), then Putin must be involved.”

    Put it this way–the NYAG and Mueller have ONE shot at establishing an air tight case. They are being meticulous in their evidence gathering. They are leaving no stone unturned. In conspiracy cases, you work outward first, then inward. Mueller in particular has been bringing in experts in several areas. And, remember, there were people on Trump’s team that had been under the surveillance of the FBI prior to Trump’s nomination and election.

    No one knows truly what these two prosecutors have in their evidence bag. Could be a little, could be a lot. But Trump and his team put themselves in this situation.

    What I do know is that it is going to take probably months, if not a couple of years, to sort everything out.

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    • Replies: @MarkinLA
    The NYAG is looking into human sex trafficking and money laundering against Trump Model Management.

    Seriously, Trump wanting to create a modeling agency of the likes of Elite and Wilhelmina is supposed to be a front for prostitution and call girls who are sex slaves? Give Trump some credit, high end call girls are anything but sex slaves. Sex slaves usually come from places Trump would never even visit.

    What is your definition of “real proof”?

    Well it certainly isn't the testimony of some highly suspect scumbag like Browder.
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  • @Corvinus
    Browder's grandfather who was a communist is irrelevant here.

    Browder undoubtedly tried to make money through questionable, or even illegal means.

    But his testimony is compelling, and one has to carefully deconstruct his story before labeling something as a hoax.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-RsAGjUXtg

    I did see part of that nonsense and later when he was on Tucker Carlson. What was the purpose of putting somebody on who admitted he had no firsthand knowledge about Russian hacking the election? He kept implying that all of his problems in Russia had direct connections to Putin (without any real proof). He was only there to plant some kind of seed in the minds of idiots that Putin is the master who overseas everything that happens in Russia. Therefore, if Russia was involved (with still no proof), then Putin must be involved.

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    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "I did see part of that nonsense and later when he was on Tucker Carlson. What was the purpose of putting somebody on who admitted he had no firsthand knowledge about Russian hacking the election?"

    You do realize that there are several investigations taking place that seemingly are linked together.
    The NYAG is looking into human sex trafficking and money laundering against Trump Model Management. Mueller is looking into money laundering and collusion against Trump and his compatriots. It's more than just "hacking".

    "He kept implying that all of his problems in Russia had direct connections to Putin (without any real proof)."

    What is your definition of "real proof"?

    "He was only there to plant some kind of seed in the minds of idiots that Putin is the master who overseas everything that happens in Russia. Therefore, if Russia was involved (with still no proof), then Putin must be involved."

    Put it this way--the NYAG and Mueller have ONE shot at establishing an air tight case. They are being meticulous in their evidence gathering. They are leaving no stone unturned. In conspiracy cases, you work outward first, then inward. Mueller in particular has been bringing in experts in several areas. And, remember, there were people on Trump's team that had been under the surveillance of the FBI prior to Trump's nomination and election.

    No one knows truly what these two prosecutors have in their evidence bag. Could be a little, could be a lot. But Trump and his team put themselves in this situation.

    What I do know is that it is going to take probably months, if not a couple of years, to sort everything out.
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  • @Boris N
    You just reproduce the idealized image (either good or bad) of Putin that has been created by the propaganda machine from both the sides during the past 15 years. As I said above, Putin is hardly a threat to the oligarchs. Putin hardly persecute any oligarch. There are up to 100 Russian billionaires, and some thousands of millionaires, but only Khodorkovsky, Lebedev and maybe a couple of others were really imprisoned. No any other oligarchs have been persecuted. Never the privatisation of the 1990s was questioned. Never the legacy of Yeltsin was questioned, rather he is a "hero", an entire Yeltsin museum has been built. The very same oligarchs from the 1990s, except for maybe some outcasts, are continuing to loot and rob Russian wealth. They buy entire castles somewhere in England or France, they buy enormous luxury yachts, they have bought a great deal of the London luxury realty, etc., etc. They roll in money, Russian money. The only reason the average Russians still live decent is the enormous size of the Russian wealth, that even scraps are enough for the entire nation to live.

    And I'm not that religious, I do not think that the renaissance of religiosity in Russia is any good, I rather agree with (a rare case) the Marx's opinion about "opium for the people". It just makes Russian people stupid, superstitious and easy to manipulate. We live in the 21th century, we do not need 2000-year old fairy tales to be good. Anyway, I have a great respect for the PAST Russian Christian tradition, I think it is an important part of the Russian culture and mentality, so I'm strongly against any destruction of it.

    However, with both the economics and the culture you seem to present a false dilemma. You imply that the only alternative to Yeltsin and Putin are Kaganovich and Stalin, whereas I strongly believe there are many better alternatives.

    And i think the Panama Papers may have added something to our knowledge of Putin assoviatws since you wrote that. N’est-ce pas?

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  • @Boris N
    I can understand why you have a distorted view of Putin and the Russian life. Because Westerners simply lack important sources of information about the reality in Russia, you simply do not live in Russia, do not meet and hear the people everyday, you are not insiders. This is why I always say that the voice for Russia in the Western media (at least in the non-mainstream one, because I have no illusion about the MSM) must be given not to West-based either Russophobes or Russophiles, who practically know nothing, but to middle-aged, middle-class Russians, who love and understand best their own home. But even in such a case we must have many voices because no two Russians have a similar point of view, for example, even if I become one of the voices (I've written quite much here, that many of my comments deserve to become articles on their own, ha-ha) many Russians will agree with me, many will disagree, and many may have totally different third, forth, and so on views. The Russian political spectrum is much diverse, there is no false dichotomy like in the West.

    And from that you all have a problem. You get information about Russia either from the Washington-centric quasi-independent ("independent" in the American political doublespeak always means independent from everyone but Washington) outlets, like NYT, WP, Fox, CNN, you name it, and their view of Russia for the past 90 years is quite predictable if not annoying, and I understand why you do not believe them and interpret everything they say in the opposite way, so you have formed a habit that when they say something is black you understand it as something is white.

    On the other hand you have the Kremlin propaganda state machine like RT who obviously do the same thing as the Washington propaganda machine, but in the opposite direction; or Russophilic individuals (usually emigres with nostalgia), lone wolf voices like the Saker or Karlin, but whose voice anyway is irrelevant and illusional because, as I've said, they are outsiders and know little about the actual Russian life, but they rather might be characterized as positive interpreters of open sources (and neither the sources nor their interpretations ought to be true).

    Also we have local "opposition" outlets either in Russian like the radio station "Ekho Moskvy", the TV station "Dozhd", "Novaya Gazeta" and so on, or in English like "The Moscow Times", but I do not even take them seriously, I consider them as virtually subsidiaries of the Western MSM (though there is one irony that furiously anti-government "Ekho Moskvy" is owned by Gazprom).

    What I wanted to say, that even if many who are not hopelessly brainwashed understand that the demonizing of Russia is a lie, it does not make the opposite view automatically right, and your over-positive opinion is generally illusional. I tried to bring you around, but seemed to fail, though to change anybody's opinion was not my goal, I was just trying to say my opinion, be it right or wrong.

    Maybe our opinions are heavily influenced by our lives, both you and I may have been disappointed by our lives in our respective countries, but you believe that there is somewhere a better land, and it's Russia, while I, in turn, believe the life in the West is better. But there is one distinction. I've been in both the places and I can compare, but I bet if you come to Russia and do not become one of the high-paid Western expats who live luxury lives in Moscow, you'll very soon run off home and your Putinism will fade immediately (though your love to Russia itself may strengthen, as it has been with many Westerners).

    I took a motorcycle tour of the Altai region and took a train from Moscow to Bernaul where the tour started and I saw many of the places in Russia that could be considered third world. The problem is how do you blame Putin for this? What is he supposed to do. A lot of the US could have been called third world prior to FDRs New Deal which electrified major parts of the US and built schools, roads, damns, libraries and other public structures. We had a Depression to deal with so a large socialist make work program was politically feasible.

    I also saw new construction in some of the minor cities along the train route. The fact is that most of Russia was in such dilapidated shape that almost everything I saw needed renovation. Given a supposedly market driven system, where are you going to get the money to pay people to do all this renovation work? Even if you pay them what would they be able to spend that money on? Wasn’t that one of the biggest problems in the USSR, you might have money but you were limited on what you could buy with it.

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  • @5371
    Oh, this would be your Ukropithecan friend, nutty Wiz, no doubt. One can imagine what sort of "charity" he was running and Moishe Khodorkovsky was funding.

    Did you actually use your imagination? What did it tell you?

    If you were serious I guess you could have done a search on line and found the answer which is “educational”.

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  • First four words of the article: “Sergei Magnitsky was a Russian lawyer”….
    And so the article begins with an egregious error. As fellow Unz contributor Israel Shamir states. Magnitsky was a tax accountant… With a talent for tax minimisation and tax avoidance schemes… Only his after his death did he become a Russian “lawyer” a promotion or career allocation by Browder. It is worth noting that while in prison Magnitsky stated he feared for his life from Browder, who indeed does seem to have benefitted from Sergei’s demise.
    Language again masks and misdirects the truth.

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  • @Wizard of Oz
    Can you stand it Art? That awful (dead) Jew Tom Lantos, still screwing America, has two Mormon daughters (his only children), a Mormon convert widow and 18 Mormon grandchildren. There could be a Lantos family production of that marvellous musical send-up "The Book of Mormon".

    Mormons are fresh meat plus Mormons are inclined to be stupid where Israel is the subject.

    They want to grab the Marriot plus anything else of value to the vampires

    Chaffetz was a real howler.

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  • @geokat62

    Which, in the end, is irrelevant to his testimony. Nice try.
     
    I beg to differ. Ever heard of the expression: "actions speak louder than words"?

    Why would someone who is purportedly telling the truth run away from someone who is trying to serve him a subpoena to appear in court? Or, as Giraldi put it:

    "In one case he can be seen on YouTube running away from a server, somewhat unusual behavior if he has nothing to hide."

    “Why would someone who is purportedly telling the truth run away from someone who is trying to serve him a subpoena to appear in court?”

    You probably will be asking that question to members of Trump’s team in the coming months.

    Regardless, as I stated earlier, Browder undoubtedly tried to make money through questionable, or even illegal means. And in the end, his testimony was unwavering.

    “In one case he can be seen on YouTube running away from a server, somewhat unusual behavior if he has nothing to hide.”

    It is other than unusual for people who are guilty of something to avoid potential negative consequences, whether it be a five-year-old boy who took some cookies when he wasn’t suppose to or whether it be an older man who was engaged in fraudulent activities.

    He had little to hide once he was secured by the legal system and compelled to testify. Again, his testimony was unwavering.

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    • Replies: @geokat62

    He had little to hide once he was secured by the legal system and compelled to testify.
     
    Which legal system are you referring to? Not the Senate Judiciary Hearing, I hope? If so, you must have been impressed by the grilling to which Bill Browder, the witness, was exposed. He looked like he was about to melt sitting in the hot seat for over an hour and a half. The cross-examining was relentless.

    Again, his testimony was unwavering.
     
    It was unwavering because there was no one their to contradict his statements. Which member of the Judiciary committee would you say posed the most difficult questions to Bill Browder? That was no proceeding of the legal system, it was a Putin hate fest, joined in by every single member of the committee.

    The irony of the subject matter before the committee could not have been any greater. Bill Browder filing a compliant under FARA that representatives of the Russian government were trying to influence US gov't policy by attempting to lift the Magnitsky sanctions. For those who haven't been drinking the Zionist kool-aid, it is incredible to witness a hearing investigating interference by a foreign government (in this case Russia), while the whole political system is beholden to the Zionist Lobby and no one is questioning why they are not required to register under FARA. You have to be totally politically ignorant not to see the incredible irony in that. Could you even imagine these illustrious members of the Judicial Committee putting pointed questions to a witness of The Lobby seeking to expose it to the light of day. Hell will freeze over before any of us witness a day like that.

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  • foreign non-governmental pro-democracy groups operating in Russia.

    Pro-democracy? Seriously? What planet are we on?

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  • Magnitsky was a sleazy accountant, not a lawyer and among his activities one was about getting tax breaks for Browder, using fictitious hiring of disabled people to get a tax break.

    Browder was one of the very bold and very suspicious “gold-diggers” in xUSSR space, who tried to participate in the “economic rape of Russia”.

    http://thebirdman.org/Index/Others/Others-Doc-Economics&Finance/+Doc-Economics&Finance-GovernmentInfluence&Meddling/BankstersInRussiaAndGlobalEconomy.htm

    During this time of gangster capitalism in Russia under drunk Yeltsin such a person, especially a foreign one, could easily get a six grams of led if he stepped on some oligarchs foot, but this did not stopped him. He was really reckless. I wonder why. Who protected him in Russia? Here is pretty interesting and educational reading

    https://marknesop.wordpress.com/2011/01/19/sergei-magnitsky-bill-browder-hermitage-capital-management-and-wondrous-metamorphoses/

    One quote:

    “Ties with Russia run deep in his family; his grandfather was General Secretary of the US Communist Party and, according to documents released in 1995, worked for the NKVD, running a spy ring. Bill himself specialized in Eastern European markets, and when he felt the time was right, he founded Hermitage Capital Management in 1996, along with the main investor, Edmond Safra.”

    His real connection and why he renounced US citizenship and is hiding in UK suggest that some influential British structures were behind his activities.

    In a way Browder was very interested in Magnitsky death as dead Magnitsky was much more useful for him that alive. Magnitsky knew way too much about Brower activities in Russia and already started talking.

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  • @Corvinus
    "Not as compelling as his actions..."

    Which, in the end, is irrelevant to his testimony. Nice try.

    Which, in the end, is irrelevant to his testimony. Nice try.

    I beg to differ. Ever heard of the expression: “actions speak louder than words”?

    Why would someone who is purportedly telling the truth run away from someone who is trying to serve him a subpoena to appear in court? Or, as Giraldi put it:

    “In one case he can be seen on YouTube running away from a server, somewhat unusual behavior if he has nothing to hide.”

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    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "Why would someone who is purportedly telling the truth run away from someone who is trying to serve him a subpoena to appear in court?"

    You probably will be asking that question to members of Trump's team in the coming months.

    Regardless, as I stated earlier, Browder undoubtedly tried to make money through questionable, or even illegal means. And in the end, his testimony was unwavering.

    “In one case he can be seen on YouTube running away from a server, somewhat unusual behavior if he has nothing to hide.”

    It is other than unusual for people who are guilty of something to avoid potential negative consequences, whether it be a five-year-old boy who took some cookies when he wasn't suppose to or whether it be an older man who was engaged in fraudulent activities.

    He had little to hide once he was secured by the legal system and compelled to testify. Again, his testimony was unwavering.
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  • @geokat62

    But his testimony is compelling...
     
    Not as compelling as his actions:

    https://youtu.be/ryVavTF6hR0

    “Not as compelling as his actions…”

    Which, in the end, is irrelevant to his testimony. Nice try.

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    • Replies: @geokat62

    Which, in the end, is irrelevant to his testimony. Nice try.
     
    I beg to differ. Ever heard of the expression: "actions speak louder than words"?

    Why would someone who is purportedly telling the truth run away from someone who is trying to serve him a subpoena to appear in court? Or, as Giraldi put it:

    "In one case he can be seen on YouTube running away from a server, somewhat unusual behavior if he has nothing to hide."

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  • @Corvinus
    Browder's grandfather who was a communist is irrelevant here.

    Browder undoubtedly tried to make money through questionable, or even illegal means.

    But his testimony is compelling, and one has to carefully deconstruct his story before labeling something as a hoax.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-RsAGjUXtg

    But his testimony is compelling…

    Not as compelling as his actions:

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    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "Not as compelling as his actions..."

    Which, in the end, is irrelevant to his testimony. Nice try.
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  • @Quartermaster
    Putin is the man rattle the nuclear sabers, not the west. The west has called Putin on his neo-Tsarist activities and he's responded with a threat of nuclear war.

    No one in the west has to do a thing to destroy Russia. Putin is doing a very good job all by his lonesome. He learned his lessons well while at the KGB.

    You are an ignorant Neocon moron. Take your lies elsewhere.

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    • Replies: @Quartermaster
    I wrote nothing that does not comport with the facts. perhaps you should get out more.
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  • Browder’s grandfather who was a communist is irrelevant here.

    Browder undoubtedly tried to make money through questionable, or even illegal means.

    But his testimony is compelling, and one has to carefully deconstruct his story before labeling something as a hoax.

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    • Replies: @geokat62

    But his testimony is compelling...
     
    Not as compelling as his actions:

    https://youtu.be/ryVavTF6hR0
    , @MarkinLA
    I did see part of that nonsense and later when he was on Tucker Carlson. What was the purpose of putting somebody on who admitted he had no firsthand knowledge about Russian hacking the election? He kept implying that all of his problems in Russia had direct connections to Putin (without any real proof). He was only there to plant some kind of seed in the minds of idiots that Putin is the master who overseas everything that happens in Russia. Therefore, if Russia was involved (with still no proof), then Putin must be involved.
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  • @dahoit
    Quartermaster;Northrup Grumman?Lockheed?Raytheon?
    Yankee come home,damn it!
    Someone tried to assassinate a political candidate for POTUS the other day,but if one slept late the following day,one wouldn't know it.
    I say it again;Imagine the outpouring of sympathy and concern trolling for Hillaryous is it was she.
    Trump has no MSM in his corner whatsoever.Has there ever been such a colossal exhibition of media collusion in American history?
    The Zionists,it should be obvious,countenance no nationalism but their own.

    Read what I said and respond to that instead of the voices in your head.

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  • Any stick will do to beat a dog.

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  • @Boris N
    And something else about democracy, freedom, human rights and so on hypocritical demagogy of the West.

    I've been reading the Western press for many years now, and when they write about Russia or the above-mentioned holy things, I constantly read only less than a dozen of names. Namely: Politkovskaya, Litvinenko, Magnitsky, Khodorkovsky and a couple of others. Everything that concerns the human rights violations in Russia is just about that privileged dozen of people. Nothing else bad happens in Russia with anybody else. Believe me if all the problems with human rights in Russia were only with that dozen of people I would be really happy. But the fact is that everyday for the last 25 years thousands of common Russians are faced with the violations of their rights. But nobody in the West worry about them, nobody mention them, they simply do not exist for the West. The only people that exist are those who are directly or indirectly connected with the Western establishment. That is the Western establishment and their tame press are concerned only about their personal interests.

    And when another Western (or Russian) journalist or human rights "activist", while writing another article about Russia, mention again and again just only that half a dozen of the names, I just cannot help but despise those hypocrites.

    The Western Establishment was already there since the Roman times. Also the Word Blis(s) is in estaBLIS(S)ment.

    The Poor (Me included) always said Money is the Root of all Evil! The poor are Jealous on the Rich! Yes OK I am Jealous(e) ha. ha,…!
    But my father had a better view on Money: Remember the monies in the pockets of the rich are NOT in your pocket! So: do not think about the monies the Rich have. Live within your own means. Even if that means not to be mean towards the Rich. You will lose if you fight them.
    Always forget about the money someone else has!!!!! Oops I sounded like a stuck record, I just want to emphasize what my good old man told me. I will never forget him!

    Again as I have said and told to many a friend: He who holds the Gold Rules!
    Period end of story!!

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  • Sorry but I cannot possibly read all 100 comments. And I have only been researching this topic for a short time. Here is my current position to Mr. Browder’s claims.

    I think Mr. Browder in his speeches makes a compelling arguement regarding his honest history of investing in Russia. He may even have, at some point, cooperated with western intelligence services who are always in the need for good information. But I doubt Mr. Browder was an economic hitman out to destroy Russia.

    I am interested in the information of filmmaker Andrei Nekrasov, but I do not think one can call it Magnitsky Hoax, yet. The information given by Mr. Giraldi and the commenters does not convince me so far. And Nekrasov’s movie being blocked in Europe is no proof that his information is correct. It may just be EU-politics.

    I am not surprised that American politicians jumped on sanctions against the Russian state mafia. I am more surprised that the Americans actually can get something done.

    By the way, I am actually shocked by so many anti-jewish comments. As a German, let me tell you, that when you kick out smart and educated people you will lose in the long run. Your enemies are not wealthy Jews who see investments opportunities first. At the most, your enemies might be radical leftists in the media and academia. And most of them are not Jews.

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    • Replies: @anonymous
    "Your enemies are not wealthy Jews who see investments opportunities first."

    You sir, must be one those who was indeed "born yesterday." ;D
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  • @JL
    FYI, in Russia, as it was in the Soviet Union, "Jewish" is a nationality and completely divorced from any religious connotation. As such, it is not at all unusual for Jews to be practicing Russian Orthodox.

    Well-known example is great Russian poet and writer,
    Nobel Prize in Literature winner,
    Boris Leonidovich Pasternak,

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Pasternak

    Genetically he was 100% Jewish. He became
    (and stayed util his death) very deeply Russian Orthodox Christian.
    Среди стихотворений Юрия Живаго, венчающих роман Пастернака, есть одно, о котором бы хотелось сейчас поговорить. Это – «Рождественская звезда». Вот оно.
    Стояла зима.
    Дул ветер из степи.
    И холодно было младенцу в вертепе
    На склоне холма.
    Его согревало дыханье вола,
    Домашние звери
    Стояли в пещере,
    Над яслями теплая дымка плыла. [...]

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  • […] y demás fábulas . “post del Dr. Giraldi para  la revisión Unz  el 28 de junio,” La gran estafa Magnitsky? ¿Quién robó el dinero? “, Añade a la mezcla. Por último, Robert Parry al  Consorcio Noticias  tiene un […]

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  • […] Harassment and Other Fables.”   Dr. Giraldi’s post for The Unz Review on June 28th, “The Magnitsky Hoax?  Who Stole the Money?” adds to the mix. Finally, Robert Parry at Consortium News has an article out July 14. See […]

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  • […] and Other Fables.”   Dr. Giraldi’s post for The Unz Review on June 28th, “The Magnitsky Hoax?  Who Stole the Money?” adds to the mix. Finally, Robert Parry at Consortium News has an article out July 14. See […]

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  • […] and Other Fables.”   Dr. Giraldi’s post for The Unz Review on June 28th, “The Magnitsky Hoax?  Who Stole the Money?” adds to the mix. Finally, Robert Parry at Consortium News has an article out July 14. See […]

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  • It’s simply not true. The Russian nationalist groups, any of them, could care less about the Palestinians

    Well I’ll defer to your knowledge on this topic. In the West, our Nationalist groups and nazi sympathizers (they call themselves “Paleoconservatives”) primarily focus on the Palestinians and Iran. The most successful Nationalists parties in the West are Jobbik in Hungary and Golden Dawn in Greece and their primary issue by far is the Israeli Palestinian conflict. In fact, the Palestinians might be their *only* issue because they certainly never talk about anything else.

    It is certainly possible that Russian Nationalism is different from conventional European Nationalism.

    As for whether Putin really is bad and/or corrupt, the fact is that we here in the West need his help to get rid of our own leaders. After they are gone you are free to remove Putin from power.

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  • @Greasy William

    Why should they wring their hands, it isn’t them who’re foisting the evils upon the Pals, it’s us Americans that are doing that.
     
    Because the Palestinians are the #1 issue for the Russian nationalist groups, and the nationalists can't take power if the public doesn't give a shit about their message. This is the same reason the BNP failed, Golden Dawn is going nowhere and the Front National was a total failure until Marine kicked out her old man and changed to parties message from Palestine/Iran towards stopping immigration. The only nationalist group that has had even a modicum of success is Jobbik and even they can't break out of 3rd place in Hungary which is total Nazi-land.

    And again, this is pretty simple stuff: The Arab Islamic world is not strong enough to defeat Israel. It isn't and never will be. The only way to get rid of Israel is for nationalists groups to take power in the West or Russia.

    how many Russian nationalists do you know or speak to who are not Jewish, Greasy?
     
    I don't speak to any Russian nationalists. However the way Russian Jews love Putin should tell you something.

    You are acting like the WNs who have decided that Trump is one of them when he obviously isn't.

    Because the Palestinians are the #1 issue for the Russian nationalist groups

    It’s simply not true. The Russian nationalist groups, any of them, could care less about the Palestinians. I simply have not met a single Russian nationalist who cared about the Palestinians, and I met them in their thousands. Maybe I do not know every group, and maybe there is indeed one such, pro-Palestinian (how bizarre for Russian nationalists), but for the whole movement the Palestinian conflict is the #100 issue.

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  • @Rurik

    The only reason he can engaged in realpolitik in the middle east is because the Russia public doesn’t give a rat’s ass what happens to the Iranians or Palestinians.
     
    I think they do care what happens to Iran, since it's a close trading partner. And the Palestinians are just a distant, tragic people to the Russians. Why should they wring their hands, it isn't them who're foisting the evils upon the Pals, it's us Americans that are doing that.

    The only people in Russia who care about those groups are the nationalists, who, as I have said, hate Putin’s guts.
     
    how many Russian nationalists do you know or speak to who are not Jewish, Greasy?

    From what I understand, the IDF is chock full of Russian émigrés, and their take on things must be skewed by Putin's thwarting of Israel's designs on the Golan.

    here's a forum run by an ultra-Russian nationalist

    http://www.network54.com/Forum/84302

    another

    http://slavija.proboards.com/

    here's the Pravda main forum

    http://engforum.pravda.ru/index.php?/forum/3-main-forum/

    lot's of chafe on that one but you can at least glimmer a nuanced inkling of what the Russian nationalists are on about

    (they love Putin ; )

    lot’s of chafe on that one but you can at least glimmer a nuanced inkling of what the Russian nationalists are on about

    (they love Putin ; )

    No, you cannot accidentally pick up some obscure bulletin boards, hosted on a free-hosting site, which boards nobody knows and cares about.

    The actual whole Russian national movement has been being thought through, discussed and constructed for many years entirely in Russian, in the Russian part of the internet, and not in English by some pro-Russian foreigners or Russian emigres.

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  • @Greasy William

    Where do you choose to live, in wealthy but “immoral” Geneva or in poor but “spiritual” San Salvador?
     
    But San Salvador is just as spiritually sick as the West, just in a different way. A spiritually healthy society will have low corruption, low violence, respect for women's rights and concern for the welfare of the weak (the poor, the disabled, the sick).

    Poverty *can* breed evil, but evil always ultimately breeds poverty.


    I do not know what sort of Russian nationalists you are speaking about
     
    The one's who show off their gorgeous girlfriends who have "88" and bladed swastikas tattooed on their asses.

    And some nationalists even have a positive view of both Israel and Iran as good examples of national states, of what Russia must become.
     
    They want Russia to become multi culture, failing states, with grinding poverty where the different factions of the population hate each other while a corrupt and incompetent elite rules over them? That is what they want Russia to become?


    Have you ever read the Kreutzer Sonata? It is the only piece of Russian literature I have ever read and I really liked it a lot.

    The one’s who show off their gorgeous girlfriends who have “88″ and bladed swastikas tattooed on their asses.

    If you speaking seriously, what I doubt, then they are a very small, marginal minority. Since the 2000s being 1488 is a mauvais ton in the Russian national circles, nobody take those Racial Holy Warriors and fans of Hitler seriously, they are just nutheads.

    They want Russia to become multi culture, failing states, with grinding poverty where the different factions of the population hate each other while a corrupt and incompetent elite rules over them? That is what they want Russia to become?

    Actually, for the past 25 years Russia is becoming “a multi-culture, failing state, with grinding poverty where the different factions of the population hate each other while a corrupt and incompetent elite rules over them”. I will add that that elite is in the West in their minds, and they have to be physically located in Russia just for the sake of “earning” money.

    Of course, no Russian nationalists want this, even the Nazi nuthead minority.

    When I said Israel was taken as an example I meant something like that.

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  • @Rurik
    Hey Boris,

    The Russian political spectrum is much diverse, there is no false dichotomy like in the West.
     
    well from what I can glimmer, the 'dichotomy' in Russia seems to go something like either 'we/I like Putin', or 'we/I don't like Putin'.

    Perhaps it has something to do with hard politics on the ground, and the reality that it's this guy that is running things today in Russia, for better or worse.

    I understand why you do not believe them and interpret everything they say in the opposite way, so you have formed a habit that when they say something is black you understand it as something is white.
     
    I wouldn't quite characterize it in this way. It's true I never believe them, but that doesn't mean they never tell the truth. Sometimes they mix a little truth in with the lies, and sometimes they say what's really going on, because by doing so it suits their agenda(s).

    When they say the Olympics are happening in Sochi, I believe them. When they say Putin shot down MH17, I think they're lying. And then with most things in between, I think it's a combination of lies and truth, always with an agenda in mind. If Putin were assisting with the destruction of Syria today, like they (the occupied West) did to Iraq and Libya, I think they'd be calling him a great statesman, and partner in freedom and democracy. It all depends on if he toes the line.

    but you believe that there is somewhere a better land, and it’s Russia, while I, in turn, believe the life in the West is better. But there is one distinction. I’ve been in both the places and I can compare
     
    It's true I've never been to Russia, at least not yet. The closest I've came is Slovakia and Hungary, (but I did meet a beautiful Russian girl when I visited Cuba a few years ago!)

    I've never thought life was better in Russia. We do have many blessings in the West. But today I consider the government of Russia (with all of it's well known corruption and chicanery) as hands down a thousand times better than what we now have in the West. And the trajectory of Putin's Russia vs. the US or Germany for instance, I consider as like a country on the rise, vs. a civilization in rapid (free-fall) decline.

    My short take is that after the revolution and the murder of the Tsar and his family, the Fiend took control of Russia, and set about slaughtering the best of the Russians (and everyone else they could get their feculent hands on), and imposing a genocidal slavery on those people for generations. And then one day when they (Rothschild) decided that commie slavery was too expensive (you had to feed and house the people), they decided to impose a system even more cruel and fiendish. They'd simply use their puppet, quisling government in Moscow to loot the wealth and resources of Russia outright, and make Rothschild's minions some of the richest men in the world overnight, while impoverishing the Russian people to the point of near starvation. (it's what the do ; )

    And then out of the blue came Putin, who wrested Russia away from the Fiend, and gave her hope, (and an ascendant middle class and pride in Russia's heritage). For the Fiend, this was an abomination, and ironically enough; Putin was now a new Hitler - especially when he jailed on of their own (and for hard labor! It was another Holocaust!). But as long as he played ball with the West by letting most of the Jewish oligarchs keep their ill-gotten billions, and went along with atrocities like the savage rape of Iraq, the oligarchs were willing to ignore what Putin had done to their designs and fun up to a degree.

    But then came Libya, and Putin saw that the Fiend was in absolute control of the West, and must not be fed anymore, lest the Fiend grow and fester and become a dire threat to Russia itself, (again). So Putin put the kibosh on Syria, and now he's locked in a death struggle with the Fiend, who is insane with power-lust.

    It's a difficult situation to be sure. And that's how I see the West vs. Putin's Russia, and why I like Putin even with all his warts and faults. At least he's trying to make Russia great again, and that's why there are many of us in the West who pine for a man like him to take on the Fiend that has its fangs locked deeply into the jugular of the West.

    For what it's worth.

    cheers

    the ‘dichotomy’ in Russia seems to go something like either ‘we/I like Putin’, or ‘we/I don’t like Putin’.

    To like/dislike Putin is not a political stance but rather a personal opinion. But it does not explain nor imply any other view. To be precise, several persons can dislike Putin, but one may be a pro-Western ultra-liberal, another a Stalinist, other a National-Bolshevik, other a Christian Monarchist, other a racist Nazi, other a pro-Ukrainian Nazi, and so on. It is difficult to list them all. And they all may have totally different views on many subjects, but just one thing in common, as you said, a dislike to Putin.

    I cannot say for sure for the Western public but I hardly saw such a variety of views. Maybe the reason why Russians cannot unite and change something, because they are so disintegrated on many issues.

    It’s true I never believe them, but that doesn’t mean they never tell the truth.

    OK, I did not mean that. Of course, when they say that somewhere there has been a tornado, or, as in your example, a sporting event, or some other trivial factual thing they simply cannot not to say truth. But when they are trying to create some sort of analysis about hot global political affairs they usually back up the agenda of their Washington-Brussels masters. But the agenda of the Kremlin is hardly better. The best option is not to listen them both.

    But today I consider the government of Russia (with all of it’s well known corruption and chicanery) as hands down a thousand times better than what we now have in the West.

    Again, you say this because you simply has a very limited range of sources of information. You just repeat a made-up image of the Russian government or, precisely, of just one person, Putin. But this is just an image for the outside (non-Russian) public. You need know more, much more, form a variety of Russian sources, for a long period of time, and then you might have not the right, but at least a less distorted view. The actual Russian government, if we put Putin (pun) aside, is comprised of very ugly, greedy, treacherous, hypocritical people, I simply cannot find the right words for those bastards. They are utterly disgusting. They have been ruining the country for the past 25 years.

    And the trajectory of Putin’s Russia vs. the US or Germany for instance, I consider as like a country on the rise, vs. a civilization in rapid (free-fall) decline.

    Russia is on the fall. The crisis of the past two years has just nullified any achievements of the previous 2004-2014 decade. Russia has practically returned to its starting position. And nothing says about its rise, everything says the contrary. Russians have entered a difficult time. They will be remembering 2000-2014 with bitter nostalgia.

    And then out of the blue came Putin, who wrested Russia away from the Fiend, and gave her hope,

    Putin did not turn out of blue, he was a member of the 1990s robbing elite, he is a continuation of Yeltsin, I explained it in my other comments colourfully. Not to mention Putin’s “team” are the very same people from the 1990s. Take anybody and they all were doing some ugly things in the 1990s, but now they are “respected” officials and “businessmen”. The only thing he has done is to hide this ugly truth under the cover. And millions around the world believe his deceit, how naive.

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  • @Greasy William

    Bibi is the king of the Jews
     
    Bibi rules purely by default. He's not the king of anything. Nasrallah knew what he was talking about when he said that Sharon was the last King of Israel.

    Jesus Greasy, that the realpolitik I was talking about that you even highlighted in your quote!
     
    But Putin is democratically elected. The only reason he can engaged in realpolitik in the middle east is because the Russia public doesn't give a rat's ass what happens to the Iranians or Palestinians. The only people in Russia who care about those groups are the nationalists, who, as I have said, hate Putin's guts.

    I would say that Putin certainly does care about Iran. It doesn’t take a genius to know which nations have been declared evil and targeted by the US, they are frequently named by traitorous whores like Hillary, Obuma, Biden etc, along with the treacherous neo-cons who bear responsibility for fomenting wars in the ME.

    Putin is smart enough to know that if any nation sits back and waits its turn to be attacked it will surely be destroyed. He went out on a limb to arrest the destruction of Syria and it has paid off. He appears to have played his cards remarkably well to date. I can’t imagine that the stratospheric level of approval and support that he receives in Russia is fictional.

    I would believe RT News before I would the BBC, ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, DW, Fox and all the other discredited western “news” outlets.

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  • @Rurik

    Because the Palestinians are the #1 issue for the Russian nationalist groups
     
    this is silly

    and the nationalists can’t take power if the public doesn’t give a shit about their message.
     
    more silliness

    when it comes to Israel Greasy, you know your shit (not that you're right ; )

    but it seems when it comes to Russia, you're a little (lot) myopic (dunderheaded)

    no offence ;)

    no offence

    none taken

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  • Because the Palestinians are the #1 issue for the Russian nationalist groups

    this is silly

    and the nationalists can’t take power if the public doesn’t give a shit about their message.

    more silliness

    when it comes to Israel Greasy, you know your shit (not that you’re right ; )

    but it seems when it comes to Russia, you’re a little (lot) myopic (dunderheaded)

    no offence ;)

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    • Replies: @Greasy William

    no offence
     
    none taken
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  • @Rurik

    The only reason he can engaged in realpolitik in the middle east is because the Russia public doesn’t give a rat’s ass what happens to the Iranians or Palestinians.
     
    I think they do care what happens to Iran, since it's a close trading partner. And the Palestinians are just a distant, tragic people to the Russians. Why should they wring their hands, it isn't them who're foisting the evils upon the Pals, it's us Americans that are doing that.

    The only people in Russia who care about those groups are the nationalists, who, as I have said, hate Putin’s guts.
     
    how many Russian nationalists do you know or speak to who are not Jewish, Greasy?

    From what I understand, the IDF is chock full of Russian émigrés, and their take on things must be skewed by Putin's thwarting of Israel's designs on the Golan.

    here's a forum run by an ultra-Russian nationalist

    http://www.network54.com/Forum/84302

    another

    http://slavija.proboards.com/

    here's the Pravda main forum

    http://engforum.pravda.ru/index.php?/forum/3-main-forum/

    lot's of chafe on that one but you can at least glimmer a nuanced inkling of what the Russian nationalists are on about

    (they love Putin ; )

    Why should they wring their hands, it isn’t them who’re foisting the evils upon the Pals, it’s us Americans that are doing that.

    Because the Palestinians are the #1 issue for the Russian nationalist groups, and the nationalists can’t take power if the public doesn’t give a shit about their message. This is the same reason the BNP failed, Golden Dawn is going nowhere and the Front National was a total failure until Marine kicked out her old man and changed to parties message from Palestine/Iran towards stopping immigration. The only nationalist group that has had even a modicum of success is Jobbik and even they can’t break out of 3rd place in Hungary which is total Nazi-land.

    And again, this is pretty simple stuff: The Arab Islamic world is not strong enough to defeat Israel. It isn’t and never will be. The only way to get rid of Israel is for nationalists groups to take power in the West or Russia.

    how many Russian nationalists do you know or speak to who are not Jewish, Greasy?

    I don’t speak to any Russian nationalists. However the way Russian Jews love Putin should tell you something.

    You are acting like the WNs who have decided that Trump is one of them when he obviously isn’t.

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    • Replies: @Boris N

    Because the Palestinians are the #1 issue for the Russian nationalist groups
     
    It's simply not true. The Russian nationalist groups, any of them, could care less about the Palestinians. I simply have not met a single Russian nationalist who cared about the Palestinians, and I met them in their thousands. Maybe I do not know every group, and maybe there is indeed one such, pro-Palestinian (how bizarre for Russian nationalists), but for the whole movement the Palestinian conflict is the #100 issue.
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  • @Greasy William

    but in practically every case, the more money immoral people have at their disposal the lower they sink and the sorrier they get.
     
    Without spiritual health, economic health is not only meaningless, it's unsustainable. As we here in America are about to learn the hard way.

    Without spiritual health, economic health is not only meaningless, it’s unsustainable. As we here in America are about to learn the hard way.

    having linked to the Pravda forum, I just took a moment to peruse the Pravda front page.

    This from an article on Russia today:

    Putin has saved the country before and he is saving the country now. We despise all the fifth column “dissent” that is based on your taxpayer money. Russia will never behave like Soros, who maintains institutions to overthrow governments, because our leaders are Orthodox Christians. Capitalism is not our religion. You are addicted to a beautiful body, and we are addicted to a beautiful soul.

    more:

    Our aggressiveness exists only in your imagination. The reunification of the Russian people with the Crimea passed without one single shot, because Russia is more than just a country. Russia is a territory, which shares a common language, history and culture. We see any attempt to “reprogram” Russians in Ukraine as a hybrid warfare against us. One can welcome the Scottish Premier and discuss the likelihood for the UK to fall apart, but one can not support the population of southern lands of the former Russian Empire in their aspiration to withdraw from Ukraine? Is this not a double standard?

    .. we do not like your determination to make us be like you. We change. Moscow has become one of the most beautiful capitals in Europe. We do not live up to Western lifestyles, and we do not “give a damn” if you do not like our way.

    http://www.pravdareport.com/society/stories/04-07-2016/134920-russians_foreigners-0/

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  • @Greasy William

    Bibi is the king of the Jews
     
    Bibi rules purely by default. He's not the king of anything. Nasrallah knew what he was talking about when he said that Sharon was the last King of Israel.

    Jesus Greasy, that the realpolitik I was talking about that you even highlighted in your quote!
     
    But Putin is democratically elected. The only reason he can engaged in realpolitik in the middle east is because the Russia public doesn't give a rat's ass what happens to the Iranians or Palestinians. The only people in Russia who care about those groups are the nationalists, who, as I have said, hate Putin's guts.

    The only reason he can engaged in realpolitik in the middle east is because the Russia public doesn’t give a rat’s ass what happens to the Iranians or Palestinians.

    I think they do care what happens to Iran, since it’s a close trading partner. And the Palestinians are just a distant, tragic people to the Russians. Why should they wring their hands, it isn’t them who’re foisting the evils upon the Pals, it’s us Americans that are doing that.

    The only people in Russia who care about those groups are the nationalists, who, as I have said, hate Putin’s guts.

    how many Russian nationalists do you know or speak to who are not Jewish, Greasy?

    From what I understand, the IDF is chock full of Russian émigrés, and their take on things must be skewed by Putin’s thwarting of Israel’s designs on the Golan.

    here’s a forum run by an ultra-Russian nationalist

    http://www.network54.com/Forum/84302

    another

    http://slavija.proboards.com/

    here’s the Pravda main forum

    http://engforum.pravda.ru/index.php?/forum/3-main-forum/

    lot’s of chafe on that one but you can at least glimmer a nuanced inkling of what the Russian nationalists are on about

    (they love Putin ; )

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    • Replies: @Greasy William

    Why should they wring their hands, it isn’t them who’re foisting the evils upon the Pals, it’s us Americans that are doing that.
     
    Because the Palestinians are the #1 issue for the Russian nationalist groups, and the nationalists can't take power if the public doesn't give a shit about their message. This is the same reason the BNP failed, Golden Dawn is going nowhere and the Front National was a total failure until Marine kicked out her old man and changed to parties message from Palestine/Iran towards stopping immigration. The only nationalist group that has had even a modicum of success is Jobbik and even they can't break out of 3rd place in Hungary which is total Nazi-land.

    And again, this is pretty simple stuff: The Arab Islamic world is not strong enough to defeat Israel. It isn't and never will be. The only way to get rid of Israel is for nationalists groups to take power in the West or Russia.

    how many Russian nationalists do you know or speak to who are not Jewish, Greasy?
     
    I don't speak to any Russian nationalists. However the way Russian Jews love Putin should tell you something.

    You are acting like the WNs who have decided that Trump is one of them when he obviously isn't.
    , @Boris N

    lot’s of chafe on that one but you can at least glimmer a nuanced inkling of what the Russian nationalists are on about

    (they love Putin ; )
     
    No, you cannot accidentally pick up some obscure bulletin boards, hosted on a free-hosting site, which boards nobody knows and cares about.

    The actual whole Russian national movement has been being thought through, discussed and constructed for many years entirely in Russian, in the Russian part of the internet, and not in English by some pro-Russian foreigners or Russian emigres.
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  • @Boris N
    I can understand why you have a distorted view of Putin and the Russian life. Because Westerners simply lack important sources of information about the reality in Russia, you simply do not live in Russia, do not meet and hear the people everyday, you are not insiders. This is why I always say that the voice for Russia in the Western media (at least in the non-mainstream one, because I have no illusion about the MSM) must be given not to West-based either Russophobes or Russophiles, who practically know nothing, but to middle-aged, middle-class Russians, who love and understand best their own home. But even in such a case we must have many voices because no two Russians have a similar point of view, for example, even if I become one of the voices (I've written quite much here, that many of my comments deserve to become articles on their own, ha-ha) many Russians will agree with me, many will disagree, and many may have totally different third, forth, and so on views. The Russian political spectrum is much diverse, there is no false dichotomy like in the West.

    And from that you all have a problem. You get information about Russia either from the Washington-centric quasi-independent ("independent" in the American political doublespeak always means independent from everyone but Washington) outlets, like NYT, WP, Fox, CNN, you name it, and their view of Russia for the past 90 years is quite predictable if not annoying, and I understand why you do not believe them and interpret everything they say in the opposite way, so you have formed a habit that when they say something is black you understand it as something is white.

    On the other hand you have the Kremlin propaganda state machine like RT who obviously do the same thing as the Washington propaganda machine, but in the opposite direction; or Russophilic individuals (usually emigres with nostalgia), lone wolf voices like the Saker or Karlin, but whose voice anyway is irrelevant and illusional because, as I've said, they are outsiders and know little about the actual Russian life, but they rather might be characterized as positive interpreters of open sources (and neither the sources nor their interpretations ought to be true).

    Also we have local "opposition" outlets either in Russian like the radio station "Ekho Moskvy", the TV station "Dozhd", "Novaya Gazeta" and so on, or in English like "The Moscow Times", but I do not even take them seriously, I consider them as virtually subsidiaries of the Western MSM (though there is one irony that furiously anti-government "Ekho Moskvy" is owned by Gazprom).

    What I wanted to say, that even if many who are not hopelessly brainwashed understand that the demonizing of Russia is a lie, it does not make the opposite view automatically right, and your over-positive opinion is generally illusional. I tried to bring you around, but seemed to fail, though to change anybody's opinion was not my goal, I was just trying to say my opinion, be it right or wrong.

    Maybe our opinions are heavily influenced by our lives, both you and I may have been disappointed by our lives in our respective countries, but you believe that there is somewhere a better land, and it's Russia, while I, in turn, believe the life in the West is better. But there is one distinction. I've been in both the places and I can compare, but I bet if you come to Russia and do not become one of the high-paid Western expats who live luxury lives in Moscow, you'll very soon run off home and your Putinism will fade immediately (though your love to Russia itself may strengthen, as it has been with many Westerners).

    Hey Boris,

    The Russian political spectrum is much diverse, there is no false dichotomy like in the West.

    well from what I can glimmer, the ‘dichotomy’ in Russia seems to go something like either ‘we/I like Putin’, or ‘we/I don’t like Putin’.

    Perhaps it has something to do with hard politics on the ground, and the reality that it’s this guy that is running things today in Russia, for better or worse.

    I understand why you do not believe them and interpret everything they say in the opposite way, so you have formed a habit that when they say something is black you understand it as something is white.

    I wouldn’t quite characterize it in this way. It’s true I never believe them, but that doesn’t mean they never tell the truth. Sometimes they mix a little truth in with the lies, and sometimes they say what’s really going on, because by doing so it suits their agenda(s).

    When they say the Olympics are happening in Sochi, I believe them. When they say Putin shot down MH17, I think they’re lying. And then with most things in between, I think it’s a combination of lies and truth, always with an agenda in mind. If Putin were assisting with the destruction of Syria today, like they (the occupied West) did to Iraq and Libya, I think they’d be calling him a great statesman, and partner in freedom and democracy. It all depends on if he toes the line.

    but you believe that there is somewhere a better land, and it’s Russia, while I, in turn, believe the life in the West is better. But there is one distinction. I’ve been in both the places and I can compare

    It’s true I’ve never been to Russia, at least not yet. The closest I’ve came is Slovakia and Hungary, (but I did meet a beautiful Russian girl when I visited Cuba a few years ago!)

    I’ve never thought life was better in Russia. We do have many blessings in the West. But today I consider the government of Russia (with all of it’s well known corruption and chicanery) as hands down a thousand times better than what we now have in the West. And the trajectory of Putin’s Russia vs. the US or Germany for instance, I consider as like a country on the rise, vs. a civilization in rapid (free-fall) decline.

    My short take is that after the revolution and the murder of the Tsar and his family, the Fiend took control of Russia, and set about slaughtering the best of the Russians (and everyone else they could get their feculent hands on), and imposing a genocidal slavery on those people for generations. And then one day when they (Rothschild) decided that commie slavery was too expensive (you had to feed and house the people), they decided to impose a system even more cruel and fiendish. They’d simply use their puppet, quisling government in Moscow to loot the wealth and resources of Russia outright, and make Rothschild’s minions some of the richest men in the world overnight, while impoverishing the Russian people to the point of near starvation. (it’s what the do ; )

    And then out of the blue came Putin, who wrested Russia away from the Fiend, and gave her hope, (and an ascendant middle class and pride in Russia’s heritage). For the Fiend, this was an abomination, and ironically enough; Putin was now a new Hitler – especially when he jailed on of their own (and for hard labor! It was another Holocaust!). But as long as he played ball with the West by letting most of the Jewish oligarchs keep their ill-gotten billions, and went along with atrocities like the savage rape of Iraq, the oligarchs were willing to ignore what Putin had done to their designs and fun up to a degree.

    But then came Libya, and Putin saw that the Fiend was in absolute control of the West, and must not be fed anymore, lest the Fiend grow and fester and become a dire threat to Russia itself, (again). So Putin put the kibosh on Syria, and now he’s locked in a death struggle with the Fiend, who is insane with power-lust.

    It’s a difficult situation to be sure. And that’s how I see the West vs. Putin’s Russia, and why I like Putin even with all his warts and faults. At least he’s trying to make Russia great again, and that’s why there are many of us in the West who pine for a man like him to take on the Fiend that has its fangs locked deeply into the jugular of the West.

    For what it’s worth.

    cheers

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    • Replies: @Boris N

    the ‘dichotomy’ in Russia seems to go something like either ‘we/I like Putin’, or ‘we/I don’t like Putin’.
     
    To like/dislike Putin is not a political stance but rather a personal opinion. But it does not explain nor imply any other view. To be precise, several persons can dislike Putin, but one may be a pro-Western ultra-liberal, another a Stalinist, other a National-Bolshevik, other a Christian Monarchist, other a racist Nazi, other a pro-Ukrainian Nazi, and so on. It is difficult to list them all. And they all may have totally different views on many subjects, but just one thing in common, as you said, a dislike to Putin.

    I cannot say for sure for the Western public but I hardly saw such a variety of views. Maybe the reason why Russians cannot unite and change something, because they are so disintegrated on many issues.

    It’s true I never believe them, but that doesn’t mean they never tell the truth.
     
    OK, I did not mean that. Of course, when they say that somewhere there has been a tornado, or, as in your example, a sporting event, or some other trivial factual thing they simply cannot not to say truth. But when they are trying to create some sort of analysis about hot global political affairs they usually back up the agenda of their Washington-Brussels masters. But the agenda of the Kremlin is hardly better. The best option is not to listen them both.

    But today I consider the government of Russia (with all of it’s well known corruption and chicanery) as hands down a thousand times better than what we now have in the West.
     
    Again, you say this because you simply has a very limited range of sources of information. You just repeat a made-up image of the Russian government or, precisely, of just one person, Putin. But this is just an image for the outside (non-Russian) public. You need know more, much more, form a variety of Russian sources, for a long period of time, and then you might have not the right, but at least a less distorted view. The actual Russian government, if we put Putin (pun) aside, is comprised of very ugly, greedy, treacherous, hypocritical people, I simply cannot find the right words for those bastards. They are utterly disgusting. They have been ruining the country for the past 25 years.

    And the trajectory of Putin’s Russia vs. the US or Germany for instance, I consider as like a country on the rise, vs. a civilization in rapid (free-fall) decline.
     
    Russia is on the fall. The crisis of the past two years has just nullified any achievements of the previous 2004-2014 decade. Russia has practically returned to its starting position. And nothing says about its rise, everything says the contrary. Russians have entered a difficult time. They will be remembering 2000-2014 with bitter nostalgia.

    And then out of the blue came Putin, who wrested Russia away from the Fiend, and gave her hope,
     
    Putin did not turn out of blue, he was a member of the 1990s robbing elite, he is a continuation of Yeltsin, I explained it in my other comments colourfully. Not to mention Putin's "team" are the very same people from the 1990s. Take anybody and they all were doing some ugly things in the 1990s, but now they are "respected" officials and "businessmen". The only thing he has done is to hide this ugly truth under the cover. And millions around the world believe his deceit, how naive.
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  • Where do you choose to live, in wealthy but “immoral” Geneva or in poor but “spiritual” San Salvador?

    But San Salvador is just as spiritually sick as the West, just in a different way. A spiritually healthy society will have low corruption, low violence, respect for women’s rights and concern for the welfare of the weak (the poor, the disabled, the sick).

    Poverty *can* breed evil, but evil always ultimately breeds poverty.

    I do not know what sort of Russian nationalists you are speaking about

    The one’s who show off their gorgeous girlfriends who have “88″ and bladed swastikas tattooed on their asses.

    And some nationalists even have a positive view of both Israel and Iran as good examples of national states, of what Russia must become.

    They want Russia to become multi culture, failing states, with grinding poverty where the different factions of the population hate each other while a corrupt and incompetent elite rules over them? That is what they want Russia to become?

    Have you ever read the Kreutzer Sonata? It is the only piece of Russian literature I have ever read and I really liked it a lot.

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    • Replies: @Boris N

    The one’s who show off their gorgeous girlfriends who have “88″ and bladed swastikas tattooed on their asses.
     
    If you speaking seriously, what I doubt, then they are a very small, marginal minority. Since the 2000s being 1488 is a mauvais ton in the Russian national circles, nobody take those Racial Holy Warriors and fans of Hitler seriously, they are just nutheads.

    They want Russia to become multi culture, failing states, with grinding poverty where the different factions of the population hate each other while a corrupt and incompetent elite rules over them? That is what they want Russia to become?
     
    Actually, for the past 25 years Russia is becoming "a multi-culture, failing state, with grinding poverty where the different factions of the population hate each other while a corrupt and incompetent elite rules over them". I will add that that elite is in the West in their minds, and they have to be physically located in Russia just for the sake of "earning" money.

    Of course, no Russian nationalists want this, even the Nazi nuthead minority.

    When I said Israel was taken as an example I meant something like that.
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  • @Greasy William

    but in practically every case, the more money immoral people have at their disposal the lower they sink and the sorrier they get.
     
    Without spiritual health, economic health is not only meaningless, it's unsustainable. As we here in America are about to learn the hard way.

    It works in the opposite direction as well. When people have not enough means, they have no much time left to think about and to follow good moral, they are simply surviving as they can, often doing very ugly things. In most cases a society in strong need ends up in a chaos as we can see it in Africa, the Middle East and Latin America.

    In both the cases wealth does not guarantee good moral, but good moral is not an inevitable result of poverty. Where do you choose to live, in wealthy but “immoral” Geneva or in poor but “spiritual” San Salvador?

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  • @Carroll Price
    Moral always come first, with money being secondary. Of course It takes a certain amount of money for people to live, but in practically every case, the more money immoral people have at their disposal the lower they sink and the sorrier they get. With Hollywood pukes being living examples of what money without morals produces. I'm surprised you haven't figured this out.

    I do not deny the need and the role of good moral, but I have a more materialistic view of the world, an important if not the fundamental condition for good moral is the full stomach. Again no need to go far for examples, there is Latin America where people theoretically have good moral, they all are devouted Catholics, but they live in a chaotic criminal frenzy, when Detroit would look like a safe haven compared to San Salvador. Do you really think that if the USA will be as poor as but as “spiritual” as Latin America, the US life will improve?

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  • @Greasy William

    We all know he pretends to like Bibi and is a master at realpolitik.
     
    1. He's not pretending. There is a reason that Russian nationalists absolutely despise him. He completely betrayed Iran when he refused to sell them the s-300 until they accepted Obama's deal.

    2. He is extremely conscious of Russian public opinion, and yet still has no problem having publicly good relations with Netanyahu. That tells you all you need to know about how indifferent the Russian people are towards the Palestinians. Contrary to your delusions, Russia is not some sort of alt right paradise as any of the nationalists who actually live in Russia would be quick to tell you.

    I do not know what sort of Russian nationalists you are speaking about, simply because there are not THE Russian nationalists, but one or two dozens of diffused different small groups with different if not opposite views, who may call themselves or other may call them “Russian nationalists”. Not to mention thousands of common non-partisan Russians who may call themselves nationalists as well but as well may have thousands of different personal opinions about the past and the current affairs.

    Among those nationalists I know personally, most of them absolutely do not care about Iran, Israel and Palestine and about the Middle East in general. The interest has only aroused since the Syrian intervention, but the general opinion about it is negative, because many think that the war in Syria is utterly inappropriate, when just at the border there is an ongoing unfinished war with Ukraine. And some nationalists even have a positive view of both Israel and Iran as good examples of national states, of what Russia must become. And unlike many commenters here, most (with some exemptions) are not so much obsessed with Israel and Jews, and they do not care if Putin loves either Israel or Iran, they dislike Putin not for that, but for other mostly internal problems.

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  • @Rurik
    Thank you for your reply Boris.

    We all know Putin plays footsie with the oligarchs. We all know he pretends to like Bibi and is a master at realpolitik. But the impression I get is of a man who wrested control of Russia away from the worst of the oligarchs, while playing nice with the rest of them. That's how it looked to us from thousands of miles away in the dying West, and firmly under the Zio/Rothschild boot, that this was/is a great man. A world-class statesman and nationalist who crushed the fanatical terrorists in Chechnya and mollified the moderate ones with reasonable policies, and he returned the resources of Russia back the Russian state.

    Sure there is massive corruption, and other problems, but considering what the Russian people have endured with decades of (Jewish imposed) genocidal commie slavery, and then having it all do a 180 and then being impoverished even worse under the cruel destitution of crony Jewish 'capitalism' that simply handed Russia over to a few Jewish and Russian minions of Rothschild- to lord it over the dying and starving Russian people- for Putin to have turned this around is incomprehensible. It's nothing less than an historic accomplishment of a truly great man. A giant on the world's stage.

    He has, it seems to me, nearly single handedly reined in the drooling, frothing Fiend, ripping to shreds everything it could get its blood dripping teeth on. Libya was the final straw for Putin, and he alone stood up to the beast when all of Europe were counting their shekels and tossing their citizens and their nation's dignity onto the Moloch's pyres of war and slaughter and cowardly appeasement of the Fiend.

    Putin said 'enough!'

    And has stopped them in Syria (for now)

    when everyone else was wringing their hands, Putin showed them all how a man with integrity must act, when faced with a thug and a bully. You stand up to them. Or you cower, and place your fate in their hands, as Gadhafi had done.

    That's sort of how I see it. Yes, he plays ball with some very unsavory types, and corruption is rampant. But he has done something wonderful Boris.. he has given the Russian people back their dignity. They have something today that I don't think they've had for generations.. Hope. A shred of pride at being who and what they are; Russians.

    How do you put a price on that? How do you quantify that kind of thing. Sure, Americans may be able to afford more flat screen TVs, with which to watch their culture and heritage being relentlessly maligned, their identities excoriated as evil, and their culture turned into a sewer. Oh joy. But how do you put a value on giving to your people a quiet sense of personal dignity? Vs. pitting them endlessly against each other with raging identity politics and a race down to the moral abyss of spiritual feculence, writ large.

    That is our lot over here in the West Boris, and the SUVs and flat screen TVs just aren't all that, when you consider the soul and the doomed future of your people.

    I can understand why you have a distorted view of Putin and the Russian life. Because Westerners simply lack important sources of information about the reality in Russia, you simply do not live in Russia, do not meet and hear the people everyday, you are not insiders. This is why I always say that the voice for Russia in the Western media (at least in the non-mainstream one, because I have no illusion about the MSM) must be given not to West-based either Russophobes or Russophiles, who practically know nothing, but to middle-aged, middle-class Russians, who love and understand best their own home. But even in such a case we must have many voices because no two Russians have a similar point of view, for example, even if I become one of the voices (I’ve written quite much here, that many of my comments deserve to become articles on their own, ha-ha) many Russians will agree with me, many will disagree, and many may have totally different third, forth, and so on views. The Russian political spectrum is much diverse, there is no false dichotomy like in the West.

    And from that you all have a problem. You get information about Russia either from the Washington-centric quasi-independent (“independent” in the American political doublespeak always means independent from everyone but Washington) outlets, like NYT, WP, Fox, CNN, you name it, and their view of Russia for the past 90 years is quite predictable if not annoying, and I understand why you do not believe them and interpret everything they say in the opposite way, so you have formed a habit that when they say something is black you understand it as something is white.

    On the other hand you have the Kremlin propaganda state machine like RT who obviously do the same thing as the Washington propaganda machine, but in the opposite direction; or Russophilic individuals (usually emigres with nostalgia), lone wolf voices like the Saker or Karlin, but whose voice anyway is irrelevant and illusional because, as I’ve said, they are outsiders and know little about the actual Russian life, but they rather might be characterized as positive interpreters of open sources (and neither the sources nor their interpretations ought to be true).

    Also we have local “opposition” outlets either in Russian like the radio station “Ekho Moskvy”, the TV station “Dozhd”, “Novaya Gazeta” and so on, or in English like “The Moscow Times”, but I do not even take them seriously, I consider them as virtually subsidiaries of the Western MSM (though there is one irony that furiously anti-government “Ekho Moskvy” is owned by Gazprom).

    What I wanted to say, that even if many who are not hopelessly brainwashed understand that the demonizing of Russia is a lie, it does not make the opposite view automatically right, and your over-positive opinion is generally illusional. I tried to bring you around, but seemed to fail, though to change anybody’s opinion was not my goal, I was just trying to say my opinion, be it right or wrong.

    Maybe our opinions are heavily influenced by our lives, both you and I may have been disappointed by our lives in our respective countries, but you believe that there is somewhere a better land, and it’s Russia, while I, in turn, believe the life in the West is better. But there is one distinction. I’ve been in both the places and I can compare, but I bet if you come to Russia and do not become one of the high-paid Western expats who live luxury lives in Moscow, you’ll very soon run off home and your Putinism will fade immediately (though your love to Russia itself may strengthen, as it has been with many Westerners).

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    • Replies: @Rurik
    Hey Boris,

    The Russian political spectrum is much diverse, there is no false dichotomy like in the West.
     
    well from what I can glimmer, the 'dichotomy' in Russia seems to go something like either 'we/I like Putin', or 'we/I don't like Putin'.

    Perhaps it has something to do with hard politics on the ground, and the reality that it's this guy that is running things today in Russia, for better or worse.

    I understand why you do not believe them and interpret everything they say in the opposite way, so you have formed a habit that when they say something is black you understand it as something is white.
     
    I wouldn't quite characterize it in this way. It's true I never believe them, but that doesn't mean they never tell the truth. Sometimes they mix a little truth in with the lies, and sometimes they say what's really going on, because by doing so it suits their agenda(s).

    When they say the Olympics are happening in Sochi, I believe them. When they say Putin shot down MH17, I think they're lying. And then with most things in between, I think it's a combination of lies and truth, always with an agenda in mind. If Putin were assisting with the destruction of Syria today, like they (the occupied West) did to Iraq and Libya, I think they'd be calling him a great statesman, and partner in freedom and democracy. It all depends on if he toes the line.

    but you believe that there is somewhere a better land, and it’s Russia, while I, in turn, believe the life in the West is better. But there is one distinction. I’ve been in both the places and I can compare
     
    It's true I've never been to Russia, at least not yet. The closest I've came is Slovakia and Hungary, (but I did meet a beautiful Russian girl when I visited Cuba a few years ago!)

    I've never thought life was better in Russia. We do have many blessings in the West. But today I consider the government of Russia (with all of it's well known corruption and chicanery) as hands down a thousand times better than what we now have in the West. And the trajectory of Putin's Russia vs. the US or Germany for instance, I consider as like a country on the rise, vs. a civilization in rapid (free-fall) decline.

    My short take is that after the revolution and the murder of the Tsar and his family, the Fiend took control of Russia, and set about slaughtering the best of the Russians (and everyone else they could get their feculent hands on), and imposing a genocidal slavery on those people for generations. And then one day when they (Rothschild) decided that commie slavery was too expensive (you had to feed and house the people), they decided to impose a system even more cruel and fiendish. They'd simply use their puppet, quisling government in Moscow to loot the wealth and resources of Russia outright, and make Rothschild's minions some of the richest men in the world overnight, while impoverishing the Russian people to the point of near starvation. (it's what the do ; )

    And then out of the blue came Putin, who wrested Russia away from the Fiend, and gave her hope, (and an ascendant middle class and pride in Russia's heritage). For the Fiend, this was an abomination, and ironically enough; Putin was now a new Hitler - especially when he jailed on of their own (and for hard labor! It was another Holocaust!). But as long as he played ball with the West by letting most of the Jewish oligarchs keep their ill-gotten billions, and went along with atrocities like the savage rape of Iraq, the oligarchs were willing to ignore what Putin had done to their designs and fun up to a degree.

    But then came Libya, and Putin saw that the Fiend was in absolute control of the West, and must not be fed anymore, lest the Fiend grow and fester and become a dire threat to Russia itself, (again). So Putin put the kibosh on Syria, and now he's locked in a death struggle with the Fiend, who is insane with power-lust.

    It's a difficult situation to be sure. And that's how I see the West vs. Putin's Russia, and why I like Putin even with all his warts and faults. At least he's trying to make Russia great again, and that's why there are many of us in the West who pine for a man like him to take on the Fiend that has its fangs locked deeply into the jugular of the West.

    For what it's worth.

    cheers
    , @MarkinLA
    I took a motorcycle tour of the Altai region and took a train from Moscow to Bernaul where the tour started and I saw many of the places in Russia that could be considered third world. The problem is how do you blame Putin for this? What is he supposed to do. A lot of the US could have been called third world prior to FDRs New Deal which electrified major parts of the US and built schools, roads, damns, libraries and other public structures. We had a Depression to deal with so a large socialist make work program was politically feasible.

    I also saw new construction in some of the minor cities along the train route. The fact is that most of Russia was in such dilapidated shape that almost everything I saw needed renovation. Given a supposedly market driven system, where are you going to get the money to pay people to do all this renovation work? Even if you pay them what would they be able to spend that money on? Wasn't that one of the biggest problems in the USSR, you might have money but you were limited on what you could buy with it.
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  • but in practically every case, the more money immoral people have at their disposal the lower they sink and the sorrier they get.

    Without spiritual health, economic health is not only meaningless, it’s unsustainable. As we here in America are about to learn the hard way.

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    • Replies: @Boris N
    It works in the opposite direction as well. When people have not enough means, they have no much time left to think about and to follow good moral, they are simply surviving as they can, often doing very ugly things. In most cases a society in strong need ends up in a chaos as we can see it in Africa, the Middle East and Latin America.

    In both the cases wealth does not guarantee good moral, but good moral is not an inevitable result of poverty. Where do you choose to live, in wealthy but "immoral" Geneva or in poor but "spiritual" San Salvador?
    , @Rurik

    Without spiritual health, economic health is not only meaningless, it’s unsustainable. As we here in America are about to learn the hard way.
     
    having linked to the Pravda forum, I just took a moment to peruse the Pravda front page.

    This from an article on Russia today:

    Putin has saved the country before and he is saving the country now. We despise all the fifth column "dissent" that is based on your taxpayer money. Russia will never behave like Soros, who maintains institutions to overthrow governments, because our leaders are Orthodox Christians. Capitalism is not our religion. You are addicted to a beautiful body, and we are addicted to a beautiful soul.

    more:

    Our aggressiveness exists only in your imagination. The reunification of the Russian people with the Crimea passed without one single shot, because Russia is more than just a country. Russia is a territory, which shares a common language, history and culture. We see any attempt to "reprogram" Russians in Ukraine as a hybrid warfare against us. One can welcome the Scottish Premier and discuss the likelihood for the UK to fall apart, but one can not support the population of southern lands of the former Russian Empire in their aspiration to withdraw from Ukraine? Is this not a double standard?

    .. we do not like your determination to make us be like you. We change. Moscow has become one of the most beautiful capitals in Europe. We do not live up to Western lifestyles, and we do not "give a damn" if you do not like our way.

    http://www.pravdareport.com/society/stories/04-07-2016/134920-russians_foreigners-0/
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  • @Boris N
    I will strongly disagree. We have a lot of examples all around the world where the lack of money and low living standards lead to the same bad things that you have listed. You do not need to go far, just look at your neighbour countries in Central America, or else you even might go to your own American poor minority (Black or Hispanic) neighbourhood, where the people will strongly disagree with you that their living on $10,000/year gives them a great virtue, like if they have no money to buy "toys" (in fact, first-necessity goods) then they live better "spiritual" lives. When the poor speak about the spirituality of poverty, this usually means a getaway from the harsh reality with the help of self-illusion. When the rich speak about the spirituality of poverty, this usually means they try to cheat the poor.

    Moral always come first, with money being secondary. Of course It takes a certain amount of money for people to live, but in practically every case, the more money immoral people have at their disposal the lower they sink and the sorrier they get. With Hollywood pukes being living examples of what money without morals produces. I’m surprised you haven’t figured this out.

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    • Replies: @Boris N
    I do not deny the need and the role of good moral, but I have a more materialistic view of the world, an important if not the fundamental condition for good moral is the full stomach. Again no need to go far for examples, there is Latin America where people theoretically have good moral, they all are devouted Catholics, but they live in a chaotic criminal frenzy, when Detroit would look like a safe haven compared to San Salvador. Do you really think that if the USA will be as poor as but as "spiritual" as Latin America, the US life will improve?
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  • @Rurik

    He completely betrayed Iran when he refused to sell them the s-300 until they accepted Obama’s deal.
     
    Jesus Greasy, that the realpolitik I was talking about that you even highlighted in your quote!

    What he doesn't want is an all out war with the Zio-West!

    2. He is extremely conscious of Russian public opinion, and yet still has no problem having publicly good relations with Netanyahu.
     
    again, he's pretending to like Bibi because Bibi is the king of the Jews and therefor the default king of the West today. He's Rothschild's number one stooge. Of course Putin has to play nice with him. But be honest Greasy, no one on this planet actually likes Bibi. That's like saying you like hemorrhoids. You deal with things like hemorrhoids or Bibi, as the case may be, but sure as shit don't like them.

    Russia is not some sort of alt right paradise as any of the nationalists
     
    no, certainly not

    but it's also not a cultural sewer of the Jewish id, that we in the West all have to marinate in, thankyouverymuch.. not

    Bibi is the king of the Jews

    Bibi rules purely by default. He’s not the king of anything. Nasrallah knew what he was talking about when he said that Sharon was the last King of Israel.

    Jesus Greasy, that the realpolitik I was talking about that you even highlighted in your quote!

    But Putin is democratically elected. The only reason he can engaged in realpolitik in the middle east is because the Russia public doesn’t give a rat’s ass what happens to the Iranians or Palestinians. The only people in Russia who care about those groups are the nationalists, who, as I have said, hate Putin’s guts.

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    • Replies: @Rurik

    The only reason he can engaged in realpolitik in the middle east is because the Russia public doesn’t give a rat’s ass what happens to the Iranians or Palestinians.
     
    I think they do care what happens to Iran, since it's a close trading partner. And the Palestinians are just a distant, tragic people to the Russians. Why should they wring their hands, it isn't them who're foisting the evils upon the Pals, it's us Americans that are doing that.

    The only people in Russia who care about those groups are the nationalists, who, as I have said, hate Putin’s guts.
     
    how many Russian nationalists do you know or speak to who are not Jewish, Greasy?

    From what I understand, the IDF is chock full of Russian émigrés, and their take on things must be skewed by Putin's thwarting of Israel's designs on the Golan.

    here's a forum run by an ultra-Russian nationalist

    http://www.network54.com/Forum/84302

    another

    http://slavija.proboards.com/

    here's the Pravda main forum

    http://engforum.pravda.ru/index.php?/forum/3-main-forum/

    lot's of chafe on that one but you can at least glimmer a nuanced inkling of what the Russian nationalists are on about

    (they love Putin ; )
    , @NoseytheDuke
    I would say that Putin certainly does care about Iran. It doesn't take a genius to know which nations have been declared evil and targeted by the US, they are frequently named by traitorous whores like Hillary, Obuma, Biden etc, along with the treacherous neo-cons who bear responsibility for fomenting wars in the ME.

    Putin is smart enough to know that if any nation sits back and waits its turn to be attacked it will surely be destroyed. He went out on a limb to arrest the destruction of Syria and it has paid off. He appears to have played his cards remarkably well to date. I can't imagine that the stratospheric level of approval and support that he receives in Russia is fictional.

    I would believe RT News before I would the BBC, ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, DW, Fox and all the other discredited western "news" outlets.
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  • He completely betrayed Iran when he refused to sell them the s-300 until they accepted Obama’s deal.

    Jesus Greasy, that the realpolitik I was talking about that you even highlighted in your quote!

    What he doesn’t want is an all out war with the Zio-West!

    2. He is extremely conscious of Russian public opinion, and yet still has no problem having publicly good relations with Netanyahu.

    again, he’s pretending to like Bibi because Bibi is the king of the Jews and therefor the default king of the West today. He’s Rothschild’s number one stooge. Of course Putin has to play nice with him. But be honest Greasy, no one on this planet actually likes Bibi. That’s like saying you like hemorrhoids. You deal with things like hemorrhoids or Bibi, as the case may be, but sure as shit don’t like them.

    Russia is not some sort of alt right paradise as any of the nationalists

    no, certainly not

    but it’s also not a cultural sewer of the Jewish id, that we in the West all have to marinate in, thankyouverymuch.. not

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    • Replies: @Greasy William

    Bibi is the king of the Jews
     
    Bibi rules purely by default. He's not the king of anything. Nasrallah knew what he was talking about when he said that Sharon was the last King of Israel.

    Jesus Greasy, that the realpolitik I was talking about that you even highlighted in your quote!
     
    But Putin is democratically elected. The only reason he can engaged in realpolitik in the middle east is because the Russia public doesn't give a rat's ass what happens to the Iranians or Palestinians. The only people in Russia who care about those groups are the nationalists, who, as I have said, hate Putin's guts.
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  • We all know he pretends to like Bibi and is a master at realpolitik.

    1. He’s not pretending. There is a reason that Russian nationalists absolutely despise him. He completely betrayed Iran when he refused to sell them the s-300 until they accepted Obama’s deal.

    2. He is extremely conscious of Russian public opinion, and yet still has no problem having publicly good relations with Netanyahu. That tells you all you need to know about how indifferent the Russian people are towards the Palestinians. Contrary to your delusions, Russia is not some sort of alt right paradise as any of the nationalists who actually live in Russia would be quick to tell you.

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    • Replies: @Boris N
    I do not know what sort of Russian nationalists you are speaking about, simply because there are not THE Russian nationalists, but one or two dozens of diffused different small groups with different if not opposite views, who may call themselves or other may call them "Russian nationalists". Not to mention thousands of common non-partisan Russians who may call themselves nationalists as well but as well may have thousands of different personal opinions about the past and the current affairs.

    Among those nationalists I know personally, most of them absolutely do not care about Iran, Israel and Palestine and about the Middle East in general. The interest has only aroused since the Syrian intervention, but the general opinion about it is negative, because many think that the war in Syria is utterly inappropriate, when just at the border there is an ongoing unfinished war with Ukraine. And some nationalists even have a positive view of both Israel and Iran as good examples of national states, of what Russia must become. And unlike many commenters here, most (with some exemptions) are not so much obsessed with Israel and Jews, and they do not care if Putin loves either Israel or Iran, they dislike Putin not for that, but for other mostly internal problems.
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  • @Carroll Price
    The overall quality of life in any country and in any generation depends on much more than annual income, reflected in the amount of money people have at their disposal. In fact, it's becoming increasingly evident that the more money people have to spend on "toys" and other unnecessary items, leads to major social problems including atomized families, wide-spread drug addiction, high suicide rates, mental problems, obesity, and homelessness. Not to speak of a lowering of moral standards that's simply off the charts - in the wrong direction. It's obvious that rural Americans (in particular) in the 1920s and 30s, although having little money at their disposal, enjoyed a much higher quality of life including extended and close knit families, than the majority of Americans today. I could be mistaken, but I suspect the same would be true for the average Russian today.

    I will strongly disagree. We have a lot of examples all around the world where the lack of money and low living standards lead to the same bad things that you have listed. You do not need to go far, just look at your neighbour countries in Central America, or else you even might go to your own American poor minority (Black or Hispanic) neighbourhood, where the people will strongly disagree with you that their living on $10,000/year gives them a great virtue, like if they have no money to buy “toys” (in fact, first-necessity goods) then they live better “spiritual” lives. When the poor speak about the spirituality of poverty, this usually means a getaway from the harsh reality with the help of self-illusion. When the rich speak about the spirituality of poverty, this usually means they try to cheat the poor.

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    • Replies: @Carroll Price
    Moral always come first, with money being secondary. Of course It takes a certain amount of money for people to live, but in practically every case, the more money immoral people have at their disposal the lower they sink and the sorrier they get. With Hollywood pukes being living examples of what money without morals produces. I'm surprised you haven't figured this out.
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  • @Boris N

    from here in the (dying and looted) West, it looks like Russia’s middle class is ascendant, while ours is being systematically murdered off
     
    As for the Russian middle class. Of course, since 2000 the living standards of Russians have improved greatly. We could argue if it is due magical Putin or high prices of natural resources. But this only if we compare it with the Sovet pitiful existence and the extreme poverty of the 1990s. But Even if Russians have now more money, cars, things and all, Russia outside of Moscow and St.-Petersburg is still and will be for many decades a Second Word country, in many places even a Third World one. I lived in Western Europe and I can tell the difference. This is absolutely another different planet. Every bit there is better than in Russia, so Russia seems quite backward. It is just simply pleasant to live in a First World country. You constantly complain how bad the life in the West is, but you do not understand your luck that you were born or live there.

    And nothing much have changed since the 1990s, if not since the Soviet times. The entire country is still ruled by the former Soviet nomenklature, the oligarchs of the 1990s and Western companies still own and pwn Russia, gigantic bulks of the Russian wealth flow to off-shore havens, the state budget still consist of >60% of the "natural rent", the high level corruption is flourishing, a great deal of the budget is embezzled by officials. Maybe the reason why the average Russians still live decent lives is Russia's wealth so immense, that even if half of it is stolen by the upper 5-10%, the remaining half is enough for the well-being of the other 90%. But imagine how well the Russians would live without the robbery by the Kremlin oligarchic clique.

    And don't take official Russian statistics at face value. The Russian middle class hardly exists. And after 2014 the income of people has been dropping steadily. For the most provincial cities the picture is following (at 70 roubles per USD):

    Lowest 30% earn below $200 per month
    Low Middle 40% - $200-$400
    High Middle 20% - $400-$600
    Upper 5% - $600-$1200
    In Moscow, St.-Petersburg and some northern regions these number are 2 times higher, but they comprise barely 15% of the population.

    And we're left with 5%, the clique and their servants.

    I can hardly name the people who earns under $400 the "middle class", and the country where 70% earns below that can hardly be called rich (though it is quite developed, comparing with the Third World). So there are just 5%, max 25%, of the real middle class. And the average pensions are around $200/month, so no less than 40 mln of senior Russians live for that small amount of money, and with constantly rising prices it is very difficult to make both ends meet.

    And the last. You will complain that Europe is being flooded with immigrants, but Russia is a last stronghold. But I'll tell you what. Russia is on the second place by immigrant population after the USA! And they are coming in. Russia has officially 10 mln and unofficially close to 25 mln of immigrants from Asia. Moscow, in fact, must compete with London by the percentage of Asiatic immigrants. The Muslim population is rising and the Kremlin openly favours Muslims and Muslim immigrants.

    Thank you for your reply Boris.

    We all know Putin plays footsie with the oligarchs. We all know he pretends to like Bibi and is a master at realpolitik. But the impression I get is of a man who wrested control of Russia away from the worst of the oligarchs, while playing nice with the rest of them. That’s how it looked to us from thousands of miles away in the dying West, and firmly under the Zio/Rothschild boot, that this was/is a great man. A world-class statesman and nationalist who crushed the fanatical terrorists in Chechnya and mollified the moderate ones with reasonable policies, and he returned the resources of Russia back the Russian state.

    Sure there is massive corruption, and other problems, but considering what the Russian people have endured with decades of (Jewish imposed) genocidal commie slavery, and then having it all do a 180 and then being impoverished even worse under the cruel destitution of crony Jewish ‘capitalism’ that simply handed Russia over to a few Jewish and Russian minions of Rothschild- to lord it over the dying and starving Russian people- for Putin to have turned this around is incomprehensible. It’s nothing less than an historic accomplishment of a truly great man. A giant on the world’s stage.

    He has, it seems to me, nearly single handedly reined in the drooling, frothing Fiend, ripping to shreds everything it could get its blood dripping teeth on. Libya was the final straw for Putin, and he alone stood up to the beast when all of Europe were counting their shekels and tossing their citizens and their nation’s dignity onto the Moloch’s pyres of war and slaughter and cowardly appeasement of the Fiend.

    Putin said ‘enough!’

    And has stopped them in Syria (for now)

    when everyone else was wringing their hands, Putin showed them all how a man with integrity must act, when faced with a thug and a bully. You stand up to them. Or you cower, and place your fate in their hands, as Gadhafi had done.

    That’s sort of how I see it. Yes, he plays ball with some very unsavory types, and corruption is rampant. But he has done something wonderful Boris.. he has given the Russian people back their dignity. They have something today that I don’t think they’ve had for generations.. Hope. A shred of pride at being who and what they are; Russians.

    How do you put a price on that? How do you quantify that kind of thing. Sure, Americans may be able to afford more flat screen TVs, with which to watch their culture and heritage being relentlessly maligned, their identities excoriated as evil, and their culture turned into a sewer. Oh joy. But how do you put a value on giving to your people a quiet sense of personal dignity? Vs. pitting them endlessly against each other with raging identity politics and a race down to the moral abyss of spiritual feculence, writ large.

    That is our lot over here in the West Boris, and the SUVs and flat screen TVs just aren’t all that, when you consider the soul and the doomed future of your people.

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    • Replies: @Boris N
    I can understand why you have a distorted view of Putin and the Russian life. Because Westerners simply lack important sources of information about the reality in Russia, you simply do not live in Russia, do not meet and hear the people everyday, you are not insiders. This is why I always say that the voice for Russia in the Western media (at least in the non-mainstream one, because I have no illusion about the MSM) must be given not to West-based either Russophobes or Russophiles, who practically know nothing, but to middle-aged, middle-class Russians, who love and understand best their own home. But even in such a case we must have many voices because no two Russians have a similar point of view, for example, even if I become one of the voices (I've written quite much here, that many of my comments deserve to become articles on their own, ha-ha) many Russians will agree with me, many will disagree, and many may have totally different third, forth, and so on views. The Russian political spectrum is much diverse, there is no false dichotomy like in the West.

    And from that you all have a problem. You get information about Russia either from the Washington-centric quasi-independent ("independent" in the American political doublespeak always means independent from everyone but Washington) outlets, like NYT, WP, Fox, CNN, you name it, and their view of Russia for the past 90 years is quite predictable if not annoying, and I understand why you do not believe them and interpret everything they say in the opposite way, so you have formed a habit that when they say something is black you understand it as something is white.

    On the other hand you have the Kremlin propaganda state machine like RT who obviously do the same thing as the Washington propaganda machine, but in the opposite direction; or Russophilic individuals (usually emigres with nostalgia), lone wolf voices like the Saker or Karlin, but whose voice anyway is irrelevant and illusional because, as I've said, they are outsiders and know little about the actual Russian life, but they rather might be characterized as positive interpreters of open sources (and neither the sources nor their interpretations ought to be true).

    Also we have local "opposition" outlets either in Russian like the radio station "Ekho Moskvy", the TV station "Dozhd", "Novaya Gazeta" and so on, or in English like "The Moscow Times", but I do not even take them seriously, I consider them as virtually subsidiaries of the Western MSM (though there is one irony that furiously anti-government "Ekho Moskvy" is owned by Gazprom).

    What I wanted to say, that even if many who are not hopelessly brainwashed understand that the demonizing of Russia is a lie, it does not make the opposite view automatically right, and your over-positive opinion is generally illusional. I tried to bring you around, but seemed to fail, though to change anybody's opinion was not my goal, I was just trying to say my opinion, be it right or wrong.

    Maybe our opinions are heavily influenced by our lives, both you and I may have been disappointed by our lives in our respective countries, but you believe that there is somewhere a better land, and it's Russia, while I, in turn, believe the life in the West is better. But there is one distinction. I've been in both the places and I can compare, but I bet if you come to Russia and do not become one of the high-paid Western expats who live luxury lives in Moscow, you'll very soon run off home and your Putinism will fade immediately (though your love to Russia itself may strengthen, as it has been with many Westerners).
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  • @Carroll Price
    The overall quality of life in any country and in any generation depends on much more than annual income, reflected in the amount of money people have at their disposal. In fact, it's becoming increasingly evident that the more money people have to spend on "toys" and other unnecessary items, leads to major social problems including atomized families, wide-spread drug addiction, high suicide rates, mental problems, obesity, and homelessness. Not to speak of a lowering of moral standards that's simply off the charts - in the wrong direction. It's obvious that rural Americans (in particular) in the 1920s and 30s, although having little money at their disposal, enjoyed a much higher quality of life including extended and close knit families, than the majority of Americans today. I could be mistaken, but I suspect the same would be true for the average Russian today.

    Yesterday I went to cemetery where grandparents, parents & uncles are buried.
    This cemetery, like many, I guess, puts American flags on graves of war veterans.

    Grandparents died in 1935 and 1937; they’re buried in one of the earliest parts of the cemetery. Almost no flags on graves in that entire section — a major part of the cemetery.

    Parents & uncles/aunts are in somewhat newer part: as you approach that part, the numbers of American flags increase hugely — clusters of maybe 300 graves, all with American flags, and a couple dozen of those clusters — as far as the eye can see.

    The tombstones say “World War I,” “Korean War,” “World War II.” I didn’t see Viet Nam tombstones, nor any of the Bush wars, but I didn’t go into the very newest parts of the cemetery.

    The graphic message of those flags I interpreted as, USA was a lot more peaceful place before USA got into the international war enterprise.

    Also a lot more prosperous place.

    The people buried around my grandparents are the ones who built the town — laborers dug the ditches for the water systems, and plumbers who laid the pipes; entrepreneurs established the industries that made the town prosperous. There’s a whole section for priests and other religious leaders — the men & women who built the churches & schools in the town. (Now, many of the Catholic & Episcopal schools are closed and many of the public schools that used to be the pride of the entire county are boarded up — beautiful buildings, rotting in place.)

    If the decline in the town’s prosperity were charted in correlation with the increase in the number of flags on veterans’ graves, what a story that would tell.

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    • Agree: Carroll Price
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  • Art says:
    @JL
    FYI, in Russia, as it was in the Soviet Union, "Jewish" is a nationality and completely divorced from any religious connotation. As such, it is not at all unusual for Jews to be practicing Russian Orthodox.

    FYI, in Russia, as it was in the Soviet Union, “Jewish” is a nationality and completely divorced from any religious connotation. As such, it is not at all unusual for Jews to be practicing Russian Orthodox.

    JL,

    This makes much sense – a Jew is an ethnic national identity – regardless of religious affiliation.

    We should use this in America.

    Thanks — Art

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  • @Boris N

    from here in the (dying and looted) West, it looks like Russia’s middle class is ascendant, while ours is being systematically murdered off
     
    As for the Russian middle class. Of course, since 2000 the living standards of Russians have improved greatly. We could argue if it is due magical Putin or high prices of natural resources. But this only if we compare it with the Sovet pitiful existence and the extreme poverty of the 1990s. But Even if Russians have now more money, cars, things and all, Russia outside of Moscow and St.-Petersburg is still and will be for many decades a Second Word country, in many places even a Third World one. I lived in Western Europe and I can tell the difference. This is absolutely another different planet. Every bit there is better than in Russia, so Russia seems quite backward. It is just simply pleasant to live in a First World country. You constantly complain how bad the life in the West is, but you do not understand your luck that you were born or live there.

    And nothing much have changed since the 1990s, if not since the Soviet times. The entire country is still ruled by the former Soviet nomenklature, the oligarchs of the 1990s and Western companies still own and pwn Russia, gigantic bulks of the Russian wealth flow to off-shore havens, the state budget still consist of >60% of the "natural rent", the high level corruption is flourishing, a great deal of the budget is embezzled by officials. Maybe the reason why the average Russians still live decent lives is Russia's wealth so immense, that even if half of it is stolen by the upper 5-10%, the remaining half is enough for the well-being of the other 90%. But imagine how well the Russians would live without the robbery by the Kremlin oligarchic clique.

    And don't take official Russian statistics at face value. The Russian middle class hardly exists. And after 2014 the income of people has been dropping steadily. For the most provincial cities the picture is following (at 70 roubles per USD):

    Lowest 30% earn below $200 per month
    Low Middle 40% - $200-$400
    High Middle 20% - $400-$600
    Upper 5% - $600-$1200
    In Moscow, St.-Petersburg and some northern regions these number are 2 times higher, but they comprise barely 15% of the population.

    And we're left with 5%, the clique and their servants.

    I can hardly name the people who earns under $400 the "middle class", and the country where 70% earns below that can hardly be called rich (though it is quite developed, comparing with the Third World). So there are just 5%, max 25%, of the real middle class. And the average pensions are around $200/month, so no less than 40 mln of senior Russians live for that small amount of money, and with constantly rising prices it is very difficult to make both ends meet.

    And the last. You will complain that Europe is being flooded with immigrants, but Russia is a last stronghold. But I'll tell you what. Russia is on the second place by immigrant population after the USA! And they are coming in. Russia has officially 10 mln and unofficially close to 25 mln of immigrants from Asia. Moscow, in fact, must compete with London by the percentage of Asiatic immigrants. The Muslim population is rising and the Kremlin openly favours Muslims and Muslim immigrants.

    The overall quality of life in any country and in any generation depends on much more than annual income, reflected in the amount of money people have at their disposal. In fact, it’s becoming increasingly evident that the more money people have to spend on “toys” and other unnecessary items, leads to major social problems including atomized families, wide-spread drug addiction, high suicide rates, mental problems, obesity, and homelessness. Not to speak of a lowering of moral standards that’s simply off the charts – in the wrong direction. It’s obvious that rural Americans (in particular) in the 1920s and 30s, although having little money at their disposal, enjoyed a much higher quality of life including extended and close knit families, than the majority of Americans today. I could be mistaken, but I suspect the same would be true for the average Russian today.

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    • Agree: JL
    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
    Yesterday I went to cemetery where grandparents, parents & uncles are buried.
    This cemetery, like many, I guess, puts American flags on graves of war veterans.

    Grandparents died in 1935 and 1937; they're buried in one of the earliest parts of the cemetery. Almost no flags on graves in that entire section -- a major part of the cemetery.

    Parents & uncles/aunts are in somewhat newer part: as you approach that part, the numbers of American flags increase hugely -- clusters of maybe 300 graves, all with American flags, and a couple dozen of those clusters -- as far as the eye can see.

    The tombstones say "World War I," "Korean War," "World War II." I didn't see Viet Nam tombstones, nor any of the Bush wars, but I didn't go into the very newest parts of the cemetery.

    The graphic message of those flags I interpreted as, USA was a lot more peaceful place before USA got into the international war enterprise.

    Also a lot more prosperous place.

    The people buried around my grandparents are the ones who built the town -- laborers dug the ditches for the water systems, and plumbers who laid the pipes; entrepreneurs established the industries that made the town prosperous. There's a whole section for priests and other religious leaders -- the men & women who built the churches & schools in the town. (Now, many of the Catholic & Episcopal schools are closed and many of the public schools that used to be the pride of the entire county are boarded up -- beautiful buildings, rotting in place.)

    If the decline in the town's prosperity were charted in correlation with the increase in the number of flags on veterans' graves, what a story that would tell.
    , @Boris N
    I will strongly disagree. We have a lot of examples all around the world where the lack of money and low living standards lead to the same bad things that you have listed. You do not need to go far, just look at your neighbour countries in Central America, or else you even might go to your own American poor minority (Black or Hispanic) neighbourhood, where the people will strongly disagree with you that their living on $10,000/year gives them a great virtue, like if they have no money to buy "toys" (in fact, first-necessity goods) then they live better "spiritual" lives. When the poor speak about the spirituality of poverty, this usually means a getaway from the harsh reality with the help of self-illusion. When the rich speak about the spirituality of poverty, this usually means they try to cheat the poor.
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  • @Eileen Kuch
    I agree with you wholeheartedly, Boris, with the comments you made on democracy in Russia, as well as the role the foreign (US) carpetbaggers had played in Russian society.
    However, you failed to mention Russian President Vladimir Putin, who had succeeded the drunken, incompetent Boris Yeltsin, who had been installed by the Jewish Oligarchs, who were - during his Presidency - looting the Russian Treasury and bleeding the nation dry. It was Putin who salvaged the Russian economy by imprisoning and/or exiling these Oligarchs and seizing all of their assets. He also restored Orthodox Christianity in Russia after 70 years of it being underground under Bolshevik Communism. The magnificent Cathedral of Christ the Redeemer, which had been built in the 19th Century, then demolished by Lazar Kaganovich under Josef Stalin's orders, was restored (rebuilt) after Yeltsin became President in the 1990's.
    Democracy also came to Russia under Putin, along with the revival of Orthodox Christianity. As a result, the Russian people are experiencing more freedom than people are in Western countries, including the US. In a way, these two nations - Russia and the US - have switched ideologies. Even as I type this reply, Boris, Christianity in the US has just come under attack by the Federal Courts which, btw, is a gross violation of the 1st Amendment to the US Constitution, which guarantees, along with freedoms of speech, press and peaceable assemply, freedom of religion.

    You just reproduce the idealized image (either good or bad) of Putin that has been created by the propaganda machine from both the sides during the past 15 years. As I said above, Putin is hardly a threat to the oligarchs. Putin hardly persecute any oligarch. There are up to 100 Russian billionaires, and some thousands of millionaires, but only Khodorkovsky, Lebedev and maybe a couple of others were really imprisoned. No any other oligarchs have been persecuted. Never the privatisation of the 1990s was questioned. Never the legacy of Yeltsin was questioned, rather he is a “hero”, an entire Yeltsin museum has been built. The very same oligarchs from the 1990s, except for maybe some outcasts, are continuing to loot and rob Russian wealth. They buy entire castles somewhere in England or France, they buy enormous luxury yachts, they have bought a great deal of the London luxury realty, etc., etc. They roll in money, Russian money. The only reason the average Russians still live decent is the enormous size of the Russian wealth, that even scraps are enough for the entire nation to live.

    And I’m not that religious, I do not think that the renaissance of religiosity in Russia is any good, I rather agree with (a rare case) the Marx’s opinion about “opium for the people”. It just makes Russian people stupid, superstitious and easy to manipulate. We live in the 21th century, we do not need 2000-year old fairy tales to be good. Anyway, I have a great respect for the PAST Russian Christian tradition, I think it is an important part of the Russian culture and mentality, so I’m strongly against any destruction of it.

    However, with both the economics and the culture you seem to present a false dilemma. You imply that the only alternative to Yeltsin and Putin are Kaganovich and Stalin, whereas I strongly believe there are many better alternatives.

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    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    And i think the Panama Papers may have added something to our knowledge of Putin assoviatws since you wrote that. N'est-ce pas?
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Rurik
    Hello Boris,

    But the real problem is the Russian government do not want good for Russians as well.
     
    in your opinion, is the Putin government just as corrupt as the Zio-West?

    from here in the (dying and looted) West, it looks like Russia's middle class is ascendant, while ours is being systematically murdered off

    personally, for me, what it feels like is that the worst elements in the population that were in Russia (and Eastern Europe) during the 20th century have now emigrated over to the West. And that just as Russia and Eastern Europe suffered unimaginable horrors during the last century, under cruel and sadistic Bolsheviks (and the Cheka and NKVD), they are now over here, fomenting genocide and looting the place blind.

    It's as if when Putin came to power, the Fiend slithered over the Berlin wall into the West, where it now molders in the assorted banking houses and think tanks plotting its next iniquitous atrocity, whether financial or military or social/cultural.

    That's how it seems to me anyways.


    (thank you PG for your superlative and informative articles. They're very much appreciated)

    from here in the (dying and looted) West, it looks like Russia’s middle class is ascendant, while ours is being systematically murdered off

    As for the Russian middle class. Of course, since 2000 the living standards of Russians have improved greatly. We could argue if it is due magical Putin or high prices of natural resources. But this only if we compare it with the Sovet pitiful existence and the extreme poverty of the 1990s. But Even if Russians have now more money, cars, things and all, Russia outside of Moscow and St.-Petersburg is still and will be for many decades a Second Word country, in many places even a Third World one. I lived in Western Europe and I can tell the difference. This is absolutely another different planet. Every bit there is better than in Russia, so Russia seems quite backward. It is just simply pleasant to live in a First World country. You constantly complain how bad the life in the West is, but you do not understand your luck that you were born or live there.

    And nothing much have changed since the 1990s, if not since the Soviet times. The entire country is still ruled by the former Soviet nomenklature, the oligarchs of the 1990s and Western companies still own and pwn Russia, gigantic bulks of the Russian wealth flow to off-shore havens, the state budget still consist of >60% of the “natural rent”, the high level corruption is flourishing, a great deal of the budget is embezzled by officials. Maybe the reason why the average Russians still live decent lives is Russia’s wealth so immense, that even if half of it is stolen by the upper 5-10%, the remaining half is enough for the well-being of the other 90%. But imagine how well the Russians would live without the robbery by the Kremlin oligarchic clique.

    And don’t take official Russian statistics at face value. The Russian middle class hardly exists. And after 2014 the income of people has been dropping steadily. For the most provincial cities the picture is following (at 70 roubles per USD):

    Lowest 30% earn below $200 per month
    Low Middle 40% – $200-$400
    High Middle 20% – $400-$600
    Upper 5% – $600-$1200
    In Moscow, St.-Petersburg and some northern regions these number are 2 times higher, but they comprise barely 15% of the population.

    And we’re left with 5%, the clique and their servants.

    I can hardly name the people who earns under $400 the “middle class”, and the country where 70% earns below that can hardly be called rich (though it is quite developed, comparing with the Third World). So there are just 5%, max 25%, of the real middle class. And the average pensions are around $200/month, so no less than 40 mln of senior Russians live for that small amount of money, and with constantly rising prices it is very difficult to make both ends meet.

    And the last. You will complain that Europe is being flooded with immigrants, but Russia is a last stronghold. But I’ll tell you what. Russia is on the second place by immigrant population after the USA! And they are coming in. Russia has officially 10 mln and unofficially close to 25 mln of immigrants from Asia. Moscow, in fact, must compete with London by the percentage of Asiatic immigrants. The Muslim population is rising and the Kremlin openly favours Muslims and Muslim immigrants.

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    • Replies: @Carroll Price
    The overall quality of life in any country and in any generation depends on much more than annual income, reflected in the amount of money people have at their disposal. In fact, it's becoming increasingly evident that the more money people have to spend on "toys" and other unnecessary items, leads to major social problems including atomized families, wide-spread drug addiction, high suicide rates, mental problems, obesity, and homelessness. Not to speak of a lowering of moral standards that's simply off the charts - in the wrong direction. It's obvious that rural Americans (in particular) in the 1920s and 30s, although having little money at their disposal, enjoyed a much higher quality of life including extended and close knit families, than the majority of Americans today. I could be mistaken, but I suspect the same would be true for the average Russian today.
    , @Rurik
    Thank you for your reply Boris.

    We all know Putin plays footsie with the oligarchs. We all know he pretends to like Bibi and is a master at realpolitik. But the impression I get is of a man who wrested control of Russia away from the worst of the oligarchs, while playing nice with the rest of them. That's how it looked to us from thousands of miles away in the dying West, and firmly under the Zio/Rothschild boot, that this was/is a great man. A world-class statesman and nationalist who crushed the fanatical terrorists in Chechnya and mollified the moderate ones with reasonable policies, and he returned the resources of Russia back the Russian state.

    Sure there is massive corruption, and other problems, but considering what the Russian people have endured with decades of (Jewish imposed) genocidal commie slavery, and then having it all do a 180 and then being impoverished even worse under the cruel destitution of crony Jewish 'capitalism' that simply handed Russia over to a few Jewish and Russian minions of Rothschild- to lord it over the dying and starving Russian people- for Putin to have turned this around is incomprehensible. It's nothing less than an historic accomplishment of a truly great man. A giant on the world's stage.

    He has, it seems to me, nearly single handedly reined in the drooling, frothing Fiend, ripping to shreds everything it could get its blood dripping teeth on. Libya was the final straw for Putin, and he alone stood up to the beast when all of Europe were counting their shekels and tossing their citizens and their nation's dignity onto the Moloch's pyres of war and slaughter and cowardly appeasement of the Fiend.

    Putin said 'enough!'

    And has stopped them in Syria (for now)

    when everyone else was wringing their hands, Putin showed them all how a man with integrity must act, when faced with a thug and a bully. You stand up to them. Or you cower, and place your fate in their hands, as Gadhafi had done.

    That's sort of how I see it. Yes, he plays ball with some very unsavory types, and corruption is rampant. But he has done something wonderful Boris.. he has given the Russian people back their dignity. They have something today that I don't think they've had for generations.. Hope. A shred of pride at being who and what they are; Russians.

    How do you put a price on that? How do you quantify that kind of thing. Sure, Americans may be able to afford more flat screen TVs, with which to watch their culture and heritage being relentlessly maligned, their identities excoriated as evil, and their culture turned into a sewer. Oh joy. But how do you put a value on giving to your people a quiet sense of personal dignity? Vs. pitting them endlessly against each other with raging identity politics and a race down to the moral abyss of spiritual feculence, writ large.

    That is our lot over here in the West Boris, and the SUVs and flat screen TVs just aren't all that, when you consider the soul and the doomed future of your people.
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  • @Rurik
    Hello Boris,

    But the real problem is the Russian government do not want good for Russians as well.
     
    in your opinion, is the Putin government just as corrupt as the Zio-West?

    from here in the (dying and looted) West, it looks like Russia's middle class is ascendant, while ours is being systematically murdered off

    personally, for me, what it feels like is that the worst elements in the population that were in Russia (and Eastern Europe) during the 20th century have now emigrated over to the West. And that just as Russia and Eastern Europe suffered unimaginable horrors during the last century, under cruel and sadistic Bolsheviks (and the Cheka and NKVD), they are now over here, fomenting genocide and looting the place blind.

    It's as if when Putin came to power, the Fiend slithered over the Berlin wall into the West, where it now molders in the assorted banking houses and think tanks plotting its next iniquitous atrocity, whether financial or military or social/cultural.

    That's how it seems to me anyways.


    (thank you PG for your superlative and informative articles. They're very much appreciated)

    in your opinion, is the Putin government just as corrupt as the Zio-West?

    Yes, absolutely. It is not just my mere assumption, and it is not a conspiracy either, but clear open facts that anybody can see if one wants to see. It is not “as corrupt as”, it IS controled by the West. We must not be deceived by the trickery red herring play of the official Kremlin (I do not like the cliche “Kremlin propaganda”, but this is exactly it; unfortunately the Western MSM use this term for absolutely different things; the Western MSM play in the same duo, by the way).

    Who is Putin and where has he come from in the first place? Apart from that he is a former KGB officer, and, as they say, “there aren’t former KGB officers” (and this is important as a great deal of Russian oligarchs came from that organization), he has not come from anywhere and suddenly but fairly won the presidential campaign in 2000. During the 1990s he was moving around in the Russian oligarchic and Kremlin circles, in fact he once was the right hand of the first mayor of St.-Petersburg Sobchak, which in turn was a friend of Yeltsin. You think Putin is different, but he is the same, he is from the same circles, you has been tricked by the made-up image of Putin, a fiend for oligarchs and a friend of people, whereas he is, in fact, a friend of oligarchs, literally.

    Then, what is more important. Even if we know little about Putin’s life in the 1990s (everything is deliberately hidden), we know, hey, the entire world knows, how Putin has come to power. Putin was a protege of Yeltsin, and this Yeltsin’s protectionism was not hidden, but absolutely public and official. Putin is the successor of Yeltsin, directly appointed by Yeltsin, a “legacy president” whose main goal is to maintain the status quo from the 1990s. I would rater call him a CEO under the control of the real masters, than an independent leader of the state. How can one at all believe “Putin is not Yeltsin”, when it is contrary to the facts. And again we know which circles Yeltsin represented, and we know that those circles have had close connections with the West if not controled by the West, and here we’ve come to the most interesting part.

    The entire post-Soviet Russian elite (oligarchs and government officials) has come come from the Communist nomenklatura, from the KGB and from the Soviet black market mafia structures (usually run by Jews, Ukrainians and Asiatics like Georgians, Armenians, Azeris and Uzbeks). And everybody of them have had many connections with the West, particularly with London, thousands of Russian oligarchs, higher officials or at least their families live in London, London is a second (true?) capital of Russia.

    So there is no reason, why we must take the Kremlin and the West at face value. Why must we believe there is a conflict of the planetary scale, when there is none.

    Well, I’ve said much enough (I hope MI6 will not find me; joke), but you can dig further yourself, everything is in open, the Russian ruling clique does not much hide itself, you do not need to be a secret agent trying to acquire the secret Kremlin (or rather Westminster?) documents, you just need to know the right directions of your searches. Just don’t allow them to confuse yourself with the information noise, both from the Kremlin and the West. Sift attentively thousands of articles about a good Putin and a bad Putin from both the direction, because their real goal is just to hide the real truth.

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  • @Wizard of Oz
    A friend who ran a very big charity funded by Khodorkovsky told me that he is not Jewish but Russian Orthodox and, indeed, his mother Marins seems to be Orthodox Christian, so why would the Jerusalem Post online refer to him as Jewish?

    Did he convert?

    I guess its just that, on balance, any group likes to claim the rich unless they are too disreputable.

    A related question is whether people with Jewish fathers, like K, got into the habit of associating with others who were at least part Jewish because of the viciousness or at least weight of anti-Semitism in the Soviet Union. After all one can get an idea of what it was like from the mad snti-Semitism in UR comments where even Rupert Murdoch can be called Jewish out of spite and envy even though he doesn't have a drop of known Jewish ancestry - pure Anglo-Celt it seems in case some twisted mind picks on that "known".

    An atheist could be a Jeiwsh guy .That is in addition to the myriad unrecognizable to one another branches of JUDAISM . This is a complex issue and can confound rest. I understand it this way -it is like the puzzling color shape height and ritual based differences of human races that confuse the non human beings of the animal kingdom . The space between the two is unbridgeable and the relation is often exploitative .

    We may wonder at the differences of ethnic religious political sexual ,ideological economic geographical differences among various Jewish leaders ,rabbis,scholars and philanthropist but when the animal like us question the purpose scrutinize the behaviors,point to the inconsistencies,try to roll back influences,expose the illegal behaviors,and bring attention to distortions of the realities, we get ridiculed silences punished and also be told that this guy or that guy was not Jewish because he is gay,or he hates going to Synagogues or he exposed the dark money of Sheldon ,or he is married to a Catholic or Hindu or he has converted to Buddhism . It is like the cow anticipating a different fate after being sounded on the ethnic differences of the purchaser ( in vegan hand the cow still be exploited)
    We human also fall for additional brainwashing like Israelis love us ( re India, or USA-Australia ) what has Arab done for us . We often narrate the personal experiences of how the Jewish boss was so genteel and good with me or how Israelis set up tents in Haiti after earthquake and ignore the universal pictures that emanate from historical and political Judiasim
    This resultant psychological tapestry of inconsistencies and paradoxes of people among us create block This what possibly happened in the mind of those western leaders like Truman,Roosevelt,Churchill and later among the church leaders,academics and labor movements and is happening now among the Saudi and Gulf royals . They were offered the individual honesty,pragmatism,scholarly activities,insight,insider knowledge,money of Jewish leaders In exchange those gentiles opened the one way door of the higher echelon of the power to the entire tribe and to every field without monitoring or vetting or processing .

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  • @Wizard of Oz
    I am not quite sure what you think you are contradicting. Would you care to elucidate? And perhaps enlarge a bit on your exclusive and inclusive definition of ethnic group and what precisely it means to say Jews (?all) define themselves as such.

    I still suspect that, if I were a rich Jew who had, for example, been a scholar at Groton, or Eton, I might well be asking with a smile whether Browder wasn't best described as a cheque book Jew (my ad hoc coinage) while it suited.....

    “And perhaps enlarge a bit on your exclusive and inclusive definition of ethnic group ”

    An ethnic group is a gene pool.

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  • @Wizard of Oz
    A friend who ran a very big charity funded by Khodorkovsky told me that he is not Jewish but Russian Orthodox and, indeed, his mother Marins seems to be Orthodox Christian, so why would the Jerusalem Post online refer to him as Jewish?

    Did he convert?

    I guess its just that, on balance, any group likes to claim the rich unless they are too disreputable.

    A related question is whether people with Jewish fathers, like K, got into the habit of associating with others who were at least part Jewish because of the viciousness or at least weight of anti-Semitism in the Soviet Union. After all one can get an idea of what it was like from the mad snti-Semitism in UR comments where even Rupert Murdoch can be called Jewish out of spite and envy even though he doesn't have a drop of known Jewish ancestry - pure Anglo-Celt it seems in case some twisted mind picks on that "known".

    Oh, this would be your Ukropithecan friend, nutty Wiz, no doubt. One can imagine what sort of “charity” he was running and Moishe Khodorkovsky was funding.

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    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    Did you actually use your imagination? What did it tell you?

    If you were serious I guess you could have done a search on line and found the answer which is "educational".
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  • FYI, in Russia, as it was in the Soviet Union, “Jewish” is a nationality and completely divorced from any religious connotation. As such, it is not at all unusual for Jews to be practicing Russian Orthodox.

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    • Replies: @Art

    FYI, in Russia, as it was in the Soviet Union, “Jewish” is a nationality and completely divorced from any religious connotation. As such, it is not at all unusual for Jews to be practicing Russian Orthodox.
     
    JL,


    This makes much sense - a Jew is an ethnic national identity - regardless of religious affiliation.

    We should use this in America.

    Thanks -- Art
    , @Immigrant from former USSR
    Well-known example is great Russian poet and writer,
    Nobel Prize in Literature winner,
    Boris Leonidovich Pasternak,
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Pasternak
    Genetically he was 100% Jewish. He became
    (and stayed util his death) very deeply Russian Orthodox Christian.
    Среди стихотворений Юрия Живаго, венчающих роман Пастернака, есть одно, о котором бы хотелось сейчас поговорить. Это – «Рождественская звезда». Вот оно.
    Стояла зима.
    Дул ветер из степи.
    И холодно было младенцу в вертепе
    На склоне холма.
    Его согревало дыханье вола,
    Домашние звери
    Стояли в пещере,
    Над яслями теплая дымка плыла. [...]
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  • JL says:
    @Wizard of Oz
    That sounds like genuine testimony though I wonder (as a peripheral question) whether he has done what it takes to become Jewish according to the Iraeli religious gatekeepers or even engages in enough observance to be regarded as authentically Reform or Liberal Jewish.

    I might hatbour a suspicion if I was a Jew, at least an Orthodox Jew, that his Judaism is basically opportunistic for the business advantages. Do you know?

    I have a Jewish born friend who is now worldwide head of a well known Jewish founded company whose children with a Jewish mother went to C of E schools with young relations of mine and who has a second wife who converted to Judaism! Shades of the Rhineland 2000 years ago?? His children turn up from time to time at Friday night's dinner open house though at least one brings his non-Jewish wife. (In contrast a very nice Jewish woman I know from her work in an Arts charity says her sons wouldn't be welcome at Shabat dinner if they had married out!)

    Some non-identifying friends with Jewish mothers (and even fathers) are decidedly not supporters of Israel, indeed one lawyer belongs to the prosecute-Kissinger as a war criminal persuasion who has a similar attitude to the Wall.

    So, I shall be interested in more nuance while accepting your comment as a very good start. Not that I am all that interested!!☺

    My relationship with Bill was limited to the sphere of commerce, thankfully, so I never had the chance to see his circumcised penis or listen to him sing Hava Nagila. Perhaps the situation is different where you live, but in the US your definition of being Jewish would make many self-indentifying Jews into goys. Admittedly, Jewish identity is a sticky issue. My guess, though, is that Browder could get Israeli citizenship without a hitch and that the orthodox would also call him one of their own.

    Frankly, I don’t understand why you are so hung up on this question and I find the theory that he was pretending to be Jewish rather implausible and far fetched. Bill was the absolute personification of greed (think Gordon Gekko, but too cheap to even buy a decent suit), so I wouldn’t put anything by him for a buck or two. Still, if he was pretending, he did a damn good job of it, fooling me and pretty much everyone I knew who worked for, or with, him.

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  • @Eileen Kuch
    I agree with you wholeheartedly, Boris, with the comments you made on democracy in Russia, as well as the role the foreign (US) carpetbaggers had played in Russian society.
    However, you failed to mention Russian President Vladimir Putin, who had succeeded the drunken, incompetent Boris Yeltsin, who had been installed by the Jewish Oligarchs, who were - during his Presidency - looting the Russian Treasury and bleeding the nation dry. It was Putin who salvaged the Russian economy by imprisoning and/or exiling these Oligarchs and seizing all of their assets. He also restored Orthodox Christianity in Russia after 70 years of it being underground under Bolshevik Communism. The magnificent Cathedral of Christ the Redeemer, which had been built in the 19th Century, then demolished by Lazar Kaganovich under Josef Stalin's orders, was restored (rebuilt) after Yeltsin became President in the 1990's.
    Democracy also came to Russia under Putin, along with the revival of Orthodox Christianity. As a result, the Russian people are experiencing more freedom than people are in Western countries, including the US. In a way, these two nations - Russia and the US - have switched ideologies. Even as I type this reply, Boris, Christianity in the US has just come under attack by the Federal Courts which, btw, is a gross violation of the 1st Amendment to the US Constitution, which guarantees, along with freedoms of speech, press and peaceable assemply, freedom of religion.

    A friend who ran a very big charity funded by Khodorkovsky told me that he is not Jewish but Russian Orthodox and, indeed, his mother Marins seems to be Orthodox Christian, so why would the Jerusalem Post online refer to him as Jewish?

    Did he convert?

    I guess its just that, on balance, any group likes to claim the rich unless they are too disreputable.

    A related question is whether people with Jewish fathers, like K, got into the habit of associating with others who were at least part Jewish because of the viciousness or at least weight of anti-Semitism in the Soviet Union. After all one can get an idea of what it was like from the mad snti-Semitism in UR comments where even Rupert Murdoch can be called Jewish out of spite and envy even though he doesn’t have a drop of known Jewish ancestry – pure Anglo-Celt it seems in case some twisted mind picks on that “known”.

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    • Replies: @5371
    Oh, this would be your Ukropithecan friend, nutty Wiz, no doubt. One can imagine what sort of "charity" he was running and Moishe Khodorkovsky was funding.
    , @bunga
    An atheist could be a Jeiwsh guy .That is in addition to the myriad unrecognizable to one another branches of JUDAISM . This is a complex issue and can confound rest. I understand it this way -it is like the puzzling color shape height and ritual based differences of human races that confuse the non human beings of the animal kingdom . The space between the two is unbridgeable and the relation is often exploitative .

    We may wonder at the differences of ethnic religious political sexual ,ideological economic geographical differences among various Jewish leaders ,rabbis,scholars and philanthropist but when the animal like us question the purpose scrutinize the behaviors,point to the inconsistencies,try to roll back influences,expose the illegal behaviors,and bring attention to distortions of the realities, we get ridiculed silences punished and also be told that this guy or that guy was not Jewish because he is gay,or he hates going to Synagogues or he exposed the dark money of Sheldon ,or he is married to a Catholic or Hindu or he has converted to Buddhism . It is like the cow anticipating a different fate after being sounded on the ethnic differences of the purchaser ( in vegan hand the cow still be exploited)
    We human also fall for additional brainwashing like Israelis love us ( re India, or USA-Australia ) what has Arab done for us . We often narrate the personal experiences of how the Jewish boss was so genteel and good with me or how Israelis set up tents in Haiti after earthquake and ignore the universal pictures that emanate from historical and political Judiasim
    This resultant psychological tapestry of inconsistencies and paradoxes of people among us create block This what possibly happened in the mind of those western leaders like Truman,Roosevelt,Churchill and later among the church leaders,academics and labor movements and is happening now among the Saudi and Gulf royals . They were offered the individual honesty,pragmatism,scholarly activities,insight,insider knowledge,money of Jewish leaders In exchange those gentiles opened the one way door of the higher echelon of the power to the entire tribe and to every field without monitoring or vetting or processing .
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  • @Carroll Price
    Among other things, Servetazz hates Marina and her dad because both have publicly stated that the holocaust is an obvious fraud. In fact, her dad was recently prosecuted and fined for stating this obvious fact.
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