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 All Comments / On "American Prisons"
    Imagine if prisons looked like the grounds of universities. Instead of languishing in cells, incarcerated people sat in classrooms and learned about climate science or poetry — just like college students. Or even with them. This would be a boon to prisoners across the country, a vast majority of whom do not have a high...
  • @Hippopotamusdrome
    We should have them pick strawberries so they wont rot in the fields when the illegals are gone.

    Perhaps most prisoners are too dumb to pick strawberries. So let’s send them to college!

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  • Thanks to a recent White House conference, the debate over America’s “school-to-prison pipeline” is for the umpteenth time back in the news. These pow-wows inevitably offer up a standard litany of talking points and putative remedies. First, there is the obliquitory outrage over having far too many black males in prison. Second, the entire system,...
  • @Ilyana_Rozumova
    I do think that she is mistaking me for somebody else. She is calling me for some reason Robert.
    And I am a lady YOU SILLY.

    And I am a lady YOU SILLY.

    Margaret Thatcher is quoted as saying something like:

    Being powerful is like being a lady. If you have to say it, you are not.

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  • Imagine if prisons looked like the grounds of universities. Instead of languishing in cells, incarcerated people sat in classrooms and learned about climate science or poetry — just like college students. Or even with them. This would be a boon to prisoners across the country, a vast majority of whom do not have a high...
  • @Cogito Ergo Suck
    You don't really want BoP bureaucrats trying to run an educational institution. As famous con and prisoner of conscience John Kiriakou points out, corrections is white man's welfare, relief for all the dumbest shits trapped in America's stankiest shitholes. All they could teach is Duh 101 and Doi 201 and Advanced Whut?

    The prisoners can just do it themselves. The best tertiary-education seminar in the country, way better than anything at Harvard, is Mumia's stir cell at Mahanoy. The screws and pigs are petrified of him. They have no idea what he's talking about.

    As famous con and prisoner of conscience John Kiriakou points out, corrections is white man’s welfare, relief for all the dumbest shits trapped in America’s stankiest shitholes.

    G. Gordon Liddy said essentially the same. If anything, he was harsher.

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  • Just think what could be accomplished by having convicts be exposed to gender studies and film. Or perhaps black studies, or any of the other snowflake majors. Tea with krumpets in the mid-afternoon. Orange jump suits with felt elbow patches, pipes with aromatic tobacco rather than crack or crystal meth. Perhaps they could learn to play cricket, less aggressive and more genteel than Amurican football.

    Delusional thinking par excellence

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  • @bartok

    In US high schools, strong and tough blacks beat up teachers and yell ‘suck my dick’.
     
    And that's just the young women.
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  • @anarchyst
    I know this runs counter to many of the views on this site, and in society, in general, but, here goes...
    It is my belief that once an offender completes his (her) full sentence, and complies with any restitution requirements, the "slate should be wiped clean", and ALL Constitutional rights should be restored. Yes, this includes "gun rights" as well. I am inclined to go along with "ban the box" laws that prevent job applications from containing the question about prior felonies and misdemeanor. Yes, I do believe that criminals should pay for their crimes, including restitution to victims, but by restricting them from becoming "fully functioning members of society", we are perpetuating a problem.
    I realize that there are criminals that can NEVER be rehabilitated, but, for most offenders, who have less than a life sentence, they WILL be coming back to our communities, and every opportunity should be afforded them to help them straighten out their lives.
    At least a functional GED degree should be a requirement as a condition of release for any offender. Those who are below a high-school educational level would be detained until they achieve a high-school level of education. In-house computer networks could easily be implemented in just about any corrections facility. The present-day system doesn't work, with those who are released go on to "bigger and better" criminal activities, as many legitimate doors are shut to them.

    Agree, the penalty should be the prison sentence. Pay that and wipe the slate clean. Otherwise the effects of conviction depend a lot on social status and the networks that you have after you leave prison. If you wipe the slate clean it becomes in the ex convicts interest to go straight.

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  • I’d like to highlight one concern if I may:

    Prisoners should be helped, not brainwashed. The goal should be to encourage inmates to become capable employees, thus enabling them to later provide for a wife and children.

    I’m unconvinced the author wishes to actually help prisoners. “Climate science or poetry” do not make one employable. And workfare for teachers is unwanted. A student must be motivated, will not benefit from osmosis in a classroom.

    One reform that would be interesting is to ensure white collar crimes are treated more seriously.

    People frequently write on “helping” prisoners, but rarely does anyone seem interested in actually helping them. Prisoners are being used as pawns in political chess.

    Edit: I wrote this assuming my earlier comments were removed, which have just reappeared. I’m confused, not intending to spam.

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  • I know this runs counter to many of the views on this site, and in society, in general, but, here goes…
    It is my belief that once an offender completes his (her) full sentence, and complies with any restitution requirements, the “slate should be wiped clean”, and ALL Constitutional rights should be restored. Yes, this includes “gun rights” as well. I am inclined to go along with “ban the box” laws that prevent job applications from containing the question about prior felonies and misdemeanor. Yes, I do believe that criminals should pay for their crimes, including restitution to victims, but by restricting them from becoming “fully functioning members of society”, we are perpetuating a problem.
    I realize that there are criminals that can NEVER be rehabilitated, but, for most offenders, who have less than a life sentence, they WILL be coming back to our communities, and every opportunity should be afforded them to help them straighten out their lives.
    At least a functional GED degree should be a requirement as a condition of release for any offender. Those who are below a high-school educational level would be detained until they achieve a high-school level of education. In-house computer networks could easily be implemented in just about any corrections facility. The present-day system doesn’t work, with those who are released go on to “bigger and better” criminal activities, as many legitimate doors are shut to them.

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    • Replies: @AKAHorace
    Agree, the penalty should be the prison sentence. Pay that and wipe the slate clean. Otherwise the effects of conviction depend a lot on social status and the networks that you have after you leave prison. If you wipe the slate clean it becomes in the ex convicts interest to go straight.
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  • Turn prisons into organ farms

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  • Haven’t spent much time with criminals have ya?

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  • You don’t really want BoP bureaucrats trying to run an educational institution. As famous con and prisoner of conscience John Kiriakou points out, corrections is white man’s welfare, relief for all the dumbest shits trapped in America’s stankiest shitholes. All they could teach is Duh 101 and Doi 201 and Advanced Whut?

    The prisoners can just do it themselves. The best tertiary-education seminar in the country, way better than anything at Harvard, is Mumia’s stir cell at Mahanoy. The screws and pigs are petrified of him. They have no idea what he’s talking about.

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    • Replies: @fnn

    As famous con and prisoner of conscience John Kiriakou points out, corrections is white man’s welfare, relief for all the dumbest shits trapped in America’s stankiest shitholes.
     
    G. Gordon Liddy said essentially the same. If anything, he was harsher.
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  • @Backwoods Bob
    It's ironic the author chose college, because it is K-12 education the prisoners are lacking - and government K-12 schools are already like prisons. So what is there to do?

    There are already GED programs, so all you need is for prisoners to be self-motivated.

    Oops!

    I’m all for prisons not sanctioning rape at least.

    GED programs are good. Similar programs could exist for collegiate education (with a focus on employable skills, not gender studies and climate “science”).

    What I fear is workfare for teachers. As you say, a motivated inmate can accomplish a great deal on his own. Magical osmosis from sitting in a classroom helps no one.

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  • Why would it be positive to teach them climate “science” or left-wing poetry? Let’s not brainwash prisoners.

    Teaching job skills would be nice. Online college courses, books, and monitored test taking are all they’d need though.

    Don’t hire more teachers. Don’t expand the state. In general, fewer teachers are needed for the US system as a whole.

    I’m all for helping prisoners, improving the prisons. (Prisons oughtn’t sanction rape by other inmates, and the food should be nutritious.) But let’s not create workfare for teachers.

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  • She lays on the fatuity a bit thick. She’s a professor. At Harvard.

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  • @SIMPLE sudonymic Handle
    college is one of the biggest scams of our time. going to college will not guarantee anything. most people dont belong in college. most of them are better off going to work straight away. i know a guy who went to college, wasted 5yrs, and 50k, and now hes unloading trucks. the thing is, he couldve done that out of hs. what hes doing doesnt even require a 9th grade education. people who get good jobs usually get them from connections, not education alone.

    people who get good jobs usually get them from connections, not education alone.

    Yes for liberal arts, no for STEM fields.

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  • There are some nice prisons. Usually where the Pollards and Madoffs go for a while.

    Keep Attica and Folsom unpleasant and fill with Neocons (Israel firsters and lasters).

    Treat Neocons same as Israel treats Mordecai Vanunu during incarceration and after release.

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  • college is one of the biggest scams of our time. going to college will not guarantee anything. most people dont belong in college. most of them are better off going to work straight away. i know a guy who went to college, wasted 5yrs, and 50k, and now hes unloading trucks. the thing is, he couldve done that out of hs. what hes doing doesnt even require a 9th grade education. people who get good jobs usually get them from connections, not education alone.

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    • Replies: @MarkinLA
    people who get good jobs usually get them from connections, not education alone.

    Yes for liberal arts, no for STEM fields.
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  • @Anon
    Actually, it might do better to turn high schools into 'prisons'.

    Treat black thug students like convicts in prison. Use discipline and hard punishment on them. They might actually learn something.

    The problem with too blacks in high school is they goof around too much, don't respect teachers, and have fear or respect for authority. But if black kids could be brought under boot-camp prison-camp method, they might do better. And they might not end up in jail.

    Why are blacks better-behaved in Cuba than in Detroit, Haiti, or Rio?
    It's because Cuba is a police state that deals with black ruffians in a very hard way. If blacks acted like rapper thugs in school, they would face hard discipline. Also, blacks can't get away with crazy stuff like BLM in Cuba.

    So, blacks do better when they come under strong discipline. It's been said blacks do best in US military since they made to obey orders.

    For there to be learning and attainment of skills, there must first be discipline, diligence, and obedience to authority.

    In US high schools, strong and tough blacks beat up teachers and yell 'suck my dick'. They run wild and don't have the attitude for study.

    Blacks are naturally wilder and more aggressive due to evolution. Living in hunter-warrior societies, the traits that were most aggressive were favored as desirable.

    In US high schools, strong and tough blacks beat up teachers and yell ‘suck my dick’.

    And that’s just the young women.

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    • LOL: Clyde
    • Replies: @CCZ
    https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2018/03/09/the-danegeld/
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  • It’s ironic the author chose college, because it is K-12 education the prisoners are lacking – and government K-12 schools are already like prisons. So what is there to do?

    There are already GED programs, so all you need is for prisoners to be self-motivated.

    Oops!

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    • Replies: @Weaver1
    I'm all for prisons not sanctioning rape at least.

    GED programs are good. Similar programs could exist for collegiate education (with a focus on employable skills, not gender studies and climate "science").

    What I fear is workfare for teachers. As you say, a motivated inmate can accomplish a great deal on his own. Magical osmosis from sitting in a classroom helps no one.

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  • Only about 30% of the population is smart enough to do college. The nearly 1% of the US population in prison is overwhelmingly drawn from the lower tail of intelligence. So what are you going to teach these prisoners? Remedial Arithmetic? Spelling? The esoteric interpretations of Sponge Bob Square Pants?

    Had a friend who spent time in the joint. He took courses in how to install burglar alarms. Not quite college, but something he could use when he got out and no one would hire him.

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  • Blank-slatism makes you stupid. Once you go blank-slate, you dispense with the possibility that the students are ever the problem. Once you decide that environment is everything, you say stupid things like “the only reason these convicts aren’t brain surgeons is the educational system.”

    Imagine if prisons looked like the grounds of universities. Instead of languishing in cells, incarcerated people sat in classrooms and learned about climate science or poetry — just like college students. Or even with them.

    This would be a boon to prisoners across the country, a vast majority of whom do not have a high school diploma. And it could help shrink our prison population. While racial disparities in arrests and convictions are alarming, education level is a far stronger predictor of future incarceration than race.

    Reality: the main limit on education levels is dictated by behavioral genetics (IQ, conscientiousness, etc.), which is strongly correlated with race. In other words, yes, stupid crackers tend away from education and toward crime the same way stupid negros do, but stupidity rates vary widely by race; black populations create stupid negros at far higher rates than white populations create stupid crackers.

    Prisoners wore normal clothing

    How is that going to work? You can make the prison uniforms look more like normal clothing, but they’re always going to be a uniform, so they’re never going to look normal in numbers.

    Norfolk had such a good reputation, Malcolm X asked to be transferred there from Charlestown State Prison in Boston so, as he wrote in his petition, he could use “the educational facilities that aren’t in these other institutions.” At Norfolk, “there are many things that I would like to learn that would be of use to me when I regain my freedom.” After Malcolm X’s request was granted, he joined the famous Norfolk Debate Society, through which inmates connected to students at Harvard and other universities.

    Then he got riddled with bullets by his fellow Muslim negros, the end.

    Look, I’m all for giving prisoners the tools for education. If it’s done for maximum cost-effectiveness, and not as a jobs-creation boondoggle for big gov’t and teachers unions. Set up a system where they can educate themselves and then take an exam for college credit. Use modern equipment (internet connections, Kindles/whatever, etc.), plus tracking to keep the bad apples out.

    Actually, it might do better to turn high schools into ‘prisons’.

    Treat black thug students like convicts in prison. Use discipline and hard punishment on them. They might actually learn something.

    The problem with too blacks in high school is they goof around too much, don’t respect teachers, and have fear or respect for authority. But if black kids could be brought under boot-camp prison-camp method, they might do better. And they might not end up in jail.

    You’re right, but that doesn’t go far enough. Black males need institutionalization from like 15-25 (or more), the “murder period” when their hormones are raging. Never gonna happen. Nor should it. Blacks are their own burden, not the White man’s.

    So, blacks do better when they come under strong discipline. It’s been said blacks do best in US military since they made to obey orders.

    The primary reason is that the military cherry-picks Blacks; only the best make it into the military. They are at par with the rather average Whites in the military, at least in terms of IQ (there’s no test I know of that can really screen Blacks by character), so the military gives the appearance of a success story.

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  • I would prefer rather not to. – But hey: Why not turn the New York Times into a prison? I could imagine to consent to this – excuse me, please – splendid - eheh – vision, hehe.

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  • This would be a boon to prisoners across the country, a vast majority of whom do not have a high school diploma.

    Another “L” who thinks that shoving everyone into college is the solution to the nation’s employment problems. A rinky-dink college degree earned in prison has even less value than a rinky-dink college degree earned on the outside.

    The U.S. incarceration model is indeed busted. Prisoners are treated like animals who will eventually be released. So when they are, it’s no surprise that they recommit.

    The solution is not bogus college degree programs, but programs that teach inmates marketable trade skills that they can use when they get out.

    Not every convict can be rehabilitated, but not every inmate should be treated like garbage either and written off prior to release.

    Hinton though is the wrong messenger with the wrong message.

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  • When punishment’s foolishly banned
    The aggressive and vile take command.
    Only fear of the White
    Will keep Sambo polite,
    Which the equaloids can’t understand.

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  • Yeah she is black and she has a PHD in African America studies. What are they doing here?

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  • We should have them pick strawberries so they wont rot in the fields when the illegals are gone.

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    • Replies: @pyrrhus
    Perhaps most prisoners are too dumb to pick strawberries. So let's send them to college!
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  • Has the author ever been outside?

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  • “Or even with them.”

    As soon as I read that I knew a woman had written this. You just want that prisoner D.

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  • Anon • Disclaimer says:

    Actually, it might do better to turn high schools into ‘prisons’.

    Treat black thug students like convicts in prison. Use discipline and hard punishment on them. They might actually learn something.

    The problem with too blacks in high school is they goof around too much, don’t respect teachers, and have fear or respect for authority. But if black kids could be brought under boot-camp prison-camp method, they might do better. And they might not end up in jail.

    Why are blacks better-behaved in Cuba than in Detroit, Haiti, or Rio?
    It’s because Cuba is a police state that deals with black ruffians in a very hard way. If blacks acted like rapper thugs in school, they would face hard discipline. Also, blacks can’t get away with crazy stuff like BLM in Cuba.

    So, blacks do better when they come under strong discipline. It’s been said blacks do best in US military since they made to obey orders.

    For there to be learning and attainment of skills, there must first be discipline, diligence, and obedience to authority.

    In US high schools, strong and tough blacks beat up teachers and yell ‘suck my dick’. They run wild and don’t have the attitude for study.

    Blacks are naturally wilder and more aggressive due to evolution. Living in hunter-warrior societies, the traits that were most aggressive were favored as desirable.

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    • Replies: @bartok

    In US high schools, strong and tough blacks beat up teachers and yell ‘suck my dick’.
     
    And that's just the young women.
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  • Thanks to a recent White House conference, the debate over America’s “school-to-prison pipeline” is for the umpteenth time back in the news. These pow-wows inevitably offer up a standard litany of talking points and putative remedies. First, there is the obliquitory outrage over having far too many black males in prison. Second, the entire system,...
  • I like the idea of banishment for all repeat violent offenders–I’m sure US could buy a nice tract of African real estate for our banished Negroes

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  • @Ilyana_Rozumova
    Assumption that Jews hate black is wrong.
    Jews do not hate anybody they only look down on everybody.
    The problem with Jews is that they are high stake gamblers.
    Jews were always persecuted from dawn of time.
    They never experienced security.
    Jews are people that should be pitied.
    At this point of time they decided that US as a most powerful nation in the world, US should rule the all world. And because they rule the US the result would be that they finally would have achieved security, and as a result they could live like any another people be happy and carefree.
    ...............................................................................................................
    Unfortunately things are not working out, as we now see it.
    Zionist Jews are not really evil. they are only manipulating US government for their own goal.
    What is happening in US now does worry me. There is a chance that US will encounter condition that would result in anger of the people, and that anger would inevitable lead to putting blame on Jews.

    Concerning holocaust it is pointless to argue how many Jews did die. The greatest crime in this case was that Germans made no distinction between Jews whose gilt could have been proven, and Jews who were totally innocent.
    My opinion is that collective punishment is the greatest crime humanity could commit.

    Being a new yorker i even like jews personally but i have also watched for 60 years what they have worked to achieve. Its true as you say their strategy has been to rule the US as a way to achieve security. however It’s untrue the way you describe the situation. They came to rule the US through means of distorting (granted it didn’t take much distortion) enlightenment and christian principles to implement communism and later when that failed racial redistributionism. Yes they also used the traditional jewish methods of taking over key centers of power in the nations they infiltrate. but the development of industrialized information and propaganda was a perfect storm they exploited well. So when as you say they are blamed the blame will be well placed. They destroyed the US in order to rule the US and now the extent of the destruction is being understood, its inevitable and right that they should be held responsible. Your assertion that this behavior of their is somehow justified because they have never found security is absurd. They have never found security is no justification for destroying another’s nation particularly the nation that saved them from extinction. But its really much worse than this. They had to be saved from extinction precisely because they were caught running the same game in europe as they have succeeded in running in the USA. They had destroyed russia and were moving on to germany when the germans realized it was nazis or or commie jews and they chose their own. unfortunately the US and UK were already well pozd and had their own empire ambitions so were easily allied with the jews to destroy germany. And yeah The nazis were not the greatest thing but just like the US is facing now the people had a choice between cucked establisjhment, rabid commie jews and populism. But really its even worse because the insecurity of the jews has for thousands of years been because the jews have chosen a strategy of parasitism. rather than expel the effort and time into building and maintaining a nation of ones own they have always and everywhere instead elected to target others nations and selectively target key power centers thus concentrating their energies. This they always think will give them security and always backfires because they can not bring themselves to assimilate and so always act in the interest of themselves as other and not in the interest of the nation they live in, over time they can not help pushing the limitation of this strategy until it backfires. Instead of understanding this repeatedly un wise move for what it is instead they use the long list of theri treachery and bad strategy as evidence that they are universally disliked.well its human nature to dislike someone coming in to your home and abusing you, what is to be expected.This time they have really upped their treachery and have for almost 150 years been orchestrating an invasion of the us by peoples not of the founding stock first southern and eastern europeans many jewish and as soon as they had that established beachhead non whites these past 50 years. They publicly stand up and instruct these foreigners in how to destroy america and deconstruct white privilege we are now at the point where they openly talk of the genocide of white in white nations as a goal. well yeah they’re gonna get blamed for that and yeah again they have overplayed their hand. and despite liking many jews personally Im going to have a hard time giving a shit when the so called good ones are deported long with the ring leaders. because you know they’re smart enough to know whats been going on, no social subtlety ever escapes them they of the micro aggression and deconstruction they know all of them perfectly well what most of them have been about.They have had 150 years to stop this they had world war two to demonstrate this strategy is not wise and that all others are not secret haters. They are simply genetically unable to alter their strategy unless forced out and into their own land.

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  • Very thought provoking article, though I think the proposed solution of shaming will fail for the very reason mentionned in comment 18 : Just imagine Antifa show offs and BLM morons partying around the cages, making captive “victims” into 15 minute cult heroes. . Shaming would only be effective against people who value social status, and have a very different impact on various defendants

    In my opinion, we could add the following sentences to the list of possibe sanctions:
    * floggings (almost no downsides)
    * forced relocation (banning people from one state, forever)
    * sterilization (both deterrent and eugenic)

    While legalizing marijuana would be a positive action to slightly reduce crime, the idiots who parrot that this would be a magic solution to every problem are living in denial

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  • @Den Lille Abe
    Or you can look at what has been done in Norway. Norway is the leading country, in combating crime.
    But it is no wonder "jail" birds there, live better than half of US population. Tsk -tsk.
    How about you redistribute wealth in the US, spent less on being an Empire?
    The US is a rich country, but the riches are owned by 0.001 %.

    That is because Norway is mostly inhabited by Norwegians (not the Norwegian jails though). However as an example, over a 3 year period every single violent rapist in Oslo was a non-european man. (around 50 cases)!
    I am more familiar with the more extreme Swedish case: a very progressive, gentle criminal system, with focus on gentle punishment and reintegration is society (since crime per neo-marxist dogma is due to socioeconomic factors). And .. . it …does ..not …work … not with the new people in the country with a very different attitude to internal shame and guilt.
    Crime is exploding in Sweden, with a massive over-representation for the usual suspects: MENA and Africans.

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  • I’ve got a better idea:

    https://www.chronicle.com/article/In-Defense-of-Flogging/127208

    https://www.amazon.com/Defense-Flogging-Peter-Moskos/dp/0465021484/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpt_1

    Flogging, which is practiced in almost all Asian countries, is effective, and gets more lasting results. There is nothing enticing to getting a flogging and feeling pain that a perp caused someone else. In Singapore, it is acknowledged from considerable experience that flogging is a powerful deterrent. Many that are flogged pass out from pain and can be heard crying into the night. Since the flogging opens the skin on the buttocks, the perp cannot sit down for quite a while. Public flogging would be even more effective. Let’s see how tough some street punks really are.

    “And crown thy good with PUSSY WOULD, from sea to shining sea”. Western Civ is pathetic and really stewpid.

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  • @Den Lille Abe
    Or you can look at what has been done in Norway. Norway is the leading country, in combating crime.
    But it is no wonder "jail" birds there, live better than half of US population. Tsk -tsk.
    How about you redistribute wealth in the US, spent less on being an Empire?
    The US is a rich country, but the riches are owned by 0.001 %.

    Norway has two things going for it:

    1. It is basically a petro-emirate. Huge profits from oil go to sovereign funds and distributed across a very small population.

    2. It is Norwegian. Meaning, a tight-nit, high trust homogeneous society with no underclass to speak of.

    Given 1 and 2, it doesn’t really matter which policies Norway adopts. It could be a communist dictatorship or a techno-libertarian anarchy yet it will always have low crime, good healthcare and fine education. Other than the states of Vermont or South Dakota, the US has very little it can apply based on the Norwegian experience.

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  • @norse nestor
    So end the war on drugs, and we'll know who to aim for.

    Why would normal citizens wish to flood the streets with delinquents and drug addicts? We need to aspire to have a society like we had in the 50′s, or of the type Switzerland has now – Nice, polite, hard working individuals going to work in the morning, greeting one another on the street, and going back to their families in the evening. The road to get there is not by pumping narcotics into our population, but to gradually minimize our criminal underclass – Capital punishment, usage of means of contraception, tying of welfare payments to work requirements, etc. etc. Within a generation or two we’ll have the social trust and crime levels of New Zealand.

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  • @Chris Mallory
    When the various levels of government are not wasting money waging war on the American people with the drug war, they can put that money to better use arresting actual criminals. But the government forces don't like that plan. Arresting a white guy for pot is a lot safer than dealing with black criminals.

    The problem with modern libertarians is not their ideas; the problem with modern libertarians today is they are cuckservatives, just like neocons, republicans, corporatist are. They are pandering political cowards, who hide behind libertarian policies, in order to avoid criticizing afros (pathetically hiding behind their nuanced thinking in order to avoid a difficult subject). They fail to acknowledge (actually more like unwilling to acknowledge) all the non black victims of afro initiated violent crime. Thus the statement about not doing anything about it without revoking the drug war first, before addressing the massive scale of afro violence upon their fellow citizens. So let me get this straight: all the millions of past non black victims of afro violence, and all the future victims, should be ignored until a pet libertarian agenda is addressed.

    Your ideology is more important then all the real people who suffered over the past half century from afro initiated violence? I am not a White Nationalist (I am a paleocon), but at least they have the fortitude to recognize racial realism when they describe the afro problem. Libertarians don’t even have the adequate life experience to accurately describe the problem [such as a cop who arrests a white guy for pot smoking is mutually exclusive from arresting black criminals because: the former takes place in suburban cup cake land, and the later takes place in the inner city where the priority is all the homicides that are taking place... if libertarian dreamers had real life experience, they would know that those locations are not the same... but hey just like a leftist, to a libertarian, favored ideology trumps reality].

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  • @John Henry
    In 1969, as a good citizen, I was drafted and went to Army Basic. Our company had half a dozen big city hoodlums who were there instead of jail. How's that for punishment? Plus they had plenty of access to firearms and knives. Oh, and they were headed to Cook School, not any branch that directly faced the enemy, like me.

    Oh, and they were headed to Cook School, not any branch that directly faced the enemy, like me.

    Well heck, I guess the 85IQ thing is a little off, then.

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  • Why not go back to the old system of capital punishment for violent crime?

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  • @Mark Green
    Weissberg is on to something here. Here's a suggestion: repeat violent criminals should be publicly whipped.
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  • @The Alarmist
    I lived in Singapore when that sniveling, spoiled American yewt, Michael Fay, was caned for vandalism. It served the little shit right, because it reflected poorly on the rest of us.

    He went back to America and was involved in a series of escapades, largely because the US is a land with no serious consequences for anti-social behaviour.

    On another note, we can always think of new forms of Trial by Ordeal, and better still, televise it to raise revenue and publicly shame to a broader audience.

    I had high hopes that the Basketball-Americans who shoplifted in China might get to enjoy a similar experience. Alas, such was not to be. But I Had A Dream!

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  • I do not have a sound at the moment. So you will have to tell mi what is your problem.

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  • I read you
    I just don’t care so much about exactly what kind of slavic guy.

    they are fucking awesome

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_the_Terrible

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  • @Chris Mallory
    When the various levels of government are not wasting money waging war on the American people with the drug war, they can put that money to better use arresting actual criminals. But the government forces don't like that plan. Arresting a white guy for pot is a lot safer than dealing with black criminals.

    Exactly correct, Chris. The amount of money spent on the drug war is enormous. Even if the drug war’s enthusiasts were allowed to keep all other drugs illegal, they won’t even consider legalizing marijuana.

    I see that among some faux conservatives here, “libertarian” is a derogatory term. I’m no libertarian, nor am I a liberal but I’ve had that insult thrown at me by republicans who haven’t a shred of conservative principal about them, just because I see the drug war as a simple power grab by politicians of both parties.

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  • @norse nestor
    russians are called ivan

    as per propre etiquette

    I disagree. Russians are properly called Boris. Ivan is for Georgians and Alexi is for Ukrainians. This is a scientific fact for which I regrettably have no proof.

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  • @Ilyana_Rozumova
    I do think that she is mistaking me for somebody else. She is calling me for some reason Robert.
    And I am a lady YOU SILLY.

    Ilyana, I apologize in advance for doxing you by way of this video about your boyfriend in Ukraine:

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  • @bomag
    Okaaaaay... one vote for the status quo. Got it.

    No, he just is a poor columnist, especially when compared to the several fine ones published here. Cf., his 11/24/17 piece and my comment #20. Someone did a better job proofreading this one, but it’s just another piece of the SOS, as underscored by several nyuk-nyuk comments.

    Get it?

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  • @MBlanc46
    End the war on drugs and they’ll find some other excuse to shoot at each other.

    So end the war on drugs, and we’ll know who to aim for.

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    • Replies: @Solomon
    Why would normal citizens wish to flood the streets with delinquents and drug addicts? We need to aspire to have a society like we had in the 50's, or of the type Switzerland has now - Nice, polite, hard working individuals going to work in the morning, greeting one another on the street, and going back to their families in the evening. The road to get there is not by pumping narcotics into our population, but to gradually minimize our criminal underclass - Capital punishment, usage of means of contraception, tying of welfare payments to work requirements, etc. etc. Within a generation or two we'll have the social trust and crime levels of New Zealand.
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  • @Ilyana_Rozumova
    I do think that she is mistaking me for somebody else. She is calling me for some reason Robert.
    And I am a lady YOU SILLY.

    russians are called ivan

    as per propre etiquette

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    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
    I disagree. Russians are properly called Boris. Ivan is for Georgians and Alexi is for Ukrainians. This is a scientific fact for which I regrettably have no proof.
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  • @joef
    Yes, end the war on drugs libertarians demand; good idea, but not one that will necessarily solve the problem. What suburban cupcake dwelling libertarians (they are as pathologically naive as any liberal) don't understand is that afros commit the preponderance of crimes independently of the drug war as well. That they are not hating whitey just because we are enforcing drug laws. When an afro carjacks a White person, gang rapes a Hispanic girl, or robs a Chinese delivery guy, the ending of the drug war is not going to help those victims. The problem of afro initiated violence against non blacks is like an inferno as compared to a candle flame.

    But why think about the crime victims when we can pontificate from afar, nice & safe in cupcake land, about ending drug wars. Libertarians come out with this feel good pontificating of utopian ideals, just as socialist do; only one wants no govt, and the other wants all govt, to bring about fanciful utopia. Both are devoid of the hard earned real world experience. For the uninformed, afros did not invade non black city neighborhoods because of the drug war. They attacked these neighborhoods because of sociopathic hate and avarice. Afros killed more people in this nation than any other group over the last half century. And it is only wishful thinking to believe that they will stop because the drug war ended (as good of an idea as it is).

    End the drug war and then we will talk is easy to say when you live outside the consequences

    Maybe some of those that you characterise as libertarians who want to end “the drug war” are a little less simpleminded than you portray them as and have some more nuanced thoughts about drugs and crime than you bother to investigate. What about finding out what the more detailed policy proposals are/might be and assessing those.

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  • Make the Punishment Fit the Criminal

    Congratualtions Bobby; you are the first man in the history of time who has every thought up this concept.

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  • @Stephen Paul Foster
    Yes, absolutely. Public flogging, I would bet the house, would significantly reduce crime. Barbaric? Visit Detroit or south Chicago to see what barbarity in the U.S. is all about. About 20 years ago an American teenager, I think it was in Singapore, was vandalizing stuff and was given 12 or 15 lashes. Amazingly, there was enormous American public support for it. "Why don't they do that here?" My guess is that kid was no repeat offender.

    I lived in Singapore when that sniveling, spoiled American yewt, Michael Fay, was caned for vandalism. It served the little shit right, because it reflected poorly on the rest of us.

    He went back to America and was involved in a series of escapades, largely because the US is a land with no serious consequences for anti-social behaviour.

    On another note, we can always think of new forms of Trial by Ordeal, and better still, televise it to raise revenue and publicly shame to a broader audience.

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    • Replies: @SteveRogers42
    I had high hopes that the Basketball-Americans who shoplifted in China might get to enjoy a similar experience. Alas, such was not to be. But I Had A Dream!
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  • Anon • Disclaimer says:

    Corporal punishment: pain. Just put that electrode on the inner ear or around a molar. Let the compute administer to avoid the subjective. Akin to tibia break with manipulation. This for 30 days, 20 minutes each.

    Cruel & unusual? Well, if it saved the perp 5 years in jail they might choose the option. It if were a lifetime choice, and it would happen again if caught…might be a deterrent. Ya know, it’s not cruel and unusual of the individual chooses the option.

    The idea is (1) change behavior, and (2) perp needs to work so can pay restitution.

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  • @Hippopotamusdrome


    In-Defense-of-Flogging

     

    LOL. Ok.
    Whats your Name "Kunta Kinte"

    Hey Hippopotamusdrome,

    Last time I checked, it’s not a punishable crime to stick to the name your parents gave you. I mean, but that’s just how we roll where I’m from – maybe in other parts, them’s fightin’ words.

    Peace.

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  • Singapore adds caning to the usual menu of incarceration, fines, and execution, and it seems to work well for them. There are a few other punishments utilized in the US–taking away ones driver’s license, taking away ones children, or confiscating property.

    I’ve long thought that castration would be a suitable punishment for serious violent crimes (rape, murder, armed robbery, aggravated assault). Losing the ability to engage in sexual intercourse would be a greater deterrent for an underclass male than any prison sentence. And castration should reduce aggressive behavior, making recidivism less likely. There would also be an incidental eugenic effect. Of course, this policy is very far away from the Overton Window, and can only be suggested safely among close friends or at places like unz.com.

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  • @CCZ
    In New Jersey, with the January 16, 2018 inauguration of Democratic Governor Phil Murphy, the “punishment will fit the criminal” by legalizing marijuana and reviewing / reducing criminal penalties for crimes that "disproportionately "incarcerate blacks.

    From Governor Murphy's State of New Jersey criminal justice initiatives page:

    “New Jersey has the shameful distinction of having the largest black-white incarceration gap of any state in the country. Governor Murphy will end mass incarceration by pursuing the legalization of marijuana and comprehensively reviewing all criminal sentencing laws.”

    There is the easiest solution. For every crime black person commits, lock up the first whitey you find on the street. But there maybe should be some system. The homeless white people should have a preference.

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  • This is a very stupid conversation based on current conditions.

    No matter how idiotic lefties are regarding crime, the simple truth is there is no way to fix the current system without first legalizing ALL drugs and releasing all people imprisoned for drug crimes to create a new baseline

    Then we can find out who the real criminals are.

    It is the lack of legally enforceable contracts that causes drug violence, not drugs.

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  • @Talha
    Someone wrote a book on this concept:
    https://www.chronicle.com/article/In-Defense-of-Flogging/127208

    Problem is that prison is now an industry upon which many, many jobs depend.

    Peace.

    In-Defense-of-Flogging

    LOL. Ok.
    Whats your Name “Kunta Kinte”

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    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey Hippopotamusdrome,

    Last time I checked, it's not a punishable crime to stick to the name your parents gave you. I mean, but that's just how we roll where I'm from - maybe in other parts, them's fightin' words.

    Peace.
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  • In my book REDOUBTS (createspace.com/3439658) I offer BSC, Benign Solitary Confinement. It is solitary without the draconian horrors of cold, darkness, and food deprivation. But, NO CONTACT WITH OTHER PEOPLE.

    The logic is that if an individual commits a crime against “society,” then he should be deprived of any “social contact” for a specified period. Minimum 6 months, but up to perhaps 3 years for egregious offenders.

    This is only way to encourage an individual to address his inner core and reason for existing, and also is a serious deterrent to future crime. Most sociopaths, in seeming contradiction seek approval and reinforcement status from others, and are deathly afraid of being forced to confront themselves.

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  • “To be sure, inventing customized punishments is great fun… ” To a sadist. The only solution to the plague of African chaos and violence is separation. Unfortunately, reparations will be necessary to keep Whites in this country safe and free of the psychological torment caused by racial strife. American Africans can use the money to create their own space within the U.S. or use it to immigrate to Black majority countries.

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  • In New Jersey, with the January 16, 2018 inauguration of Democratic Governor Phil Murphy, the “punishment will fit the criminal” by legalizing marijuana and reviewing / reducing criminal penalties for crimes that “disproportionately “incarcerate blacks.

    From Governor Murphy’s State of New Jersey criminal justice initiatives page:

    “New Jersey has the shameful distinction of having the largest black-white incarceration gap of any state in the country. Governor Murphy will end mass incarceration by pursuing the legalization of marijuana and comprehensively reviewing all criminal sentencing laws.”

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    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
    There is the easiest solution. For every crime black person commits, lock up the first whitey you find on the street. But there maybe should be some system. The homeless white people should have a preference.
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  • @Robert Weissberg
    I agree but this punishment is so obviously "racist" that I did not mention it. And, there are so many other shame related options. How about making them use old-fashioned flip phones and wearing Birkenstocks and socks? How about male sexual offenders having to wear white wedding dresses in public? So many possibilities, so few criminals.

    I agree but this punishment is so obviously “racist” that I did not mention it.

    Have it carried out by a big Black dude under all circumstances that looks like this guy:

    …problem solved – you’ll get more mileage per swing – and it involves affirmative action. You’re welcome.

    Peace.

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  • @WorkingClass
    Click bait for sadists. End the war on drugs. Then we'll talk.

    End the war on drugs and they’ll find some other excuse to shoot at each other.

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    • Replies: @norse nestor
    So end the war on drugs, and we'll know who to aim for.
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  • @ThatDamnGood
    Michael Fay, bamboo cane vs Saudi leather whips.

    http://www.nytimes.com/1994/06/26/us/us-student-tells-of-pain-of-his-caning-in-singapore.html

    Pretty sure if someone like Paul Logan or British soccer fans get flogged like that it will send a message.

    It would send a message that white people are uniquely evil. We get that point driven home by TV every day here in the U.S.A. Methinks you are a typical Progressive: The thing you fear most is being called a racist. You read the Unz Review as a kind of guilty, secret pleasure.

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  • @Biff

    Execution prevents ALL recidivism.
     
    Who do you want to do the killing? Because if you give the government the license to kill you’re going end up with a pile of dead bodies with nothing to show for it - every time. No safer cities, no reduced crime rates, nothing except a bill for the tax payer.
    Those in power never kill the right people - like themselves.

    a pile of dead bodies with nothing to show for it

    We’ve got that now.

    As far as the gov’t reflects collective action, we can certainly try something new on a small scale as a start.

    That the thing might get hacked by the usual psychopaths is one more problem to account for.

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  • @anonymous
    Again I ask: Are Mr. Weissberg's witless whack-a-black columns subject to a minimum word count? They read like a beery, late September conversation in a freshman dorm -- the last guy trying to fit in pushes the silly button too hard, and it awkwardly ends.

    Then come the comments...

    Okaaaaay… one vote for the status quo. Got it.

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    • Replies: @anonymous
    No, he just is a poor columnist, especially when compared to the several fine ones published here. Cf., his 11/24/17 piece and my comment #20. Someone did a better job proofreading this one, but it's just another piece of the SOS, as underscored by several nyuk-nyuk comments.

    Get it?
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  • @Ilyana_Rozumova
    I do think that she is mistaking me for somebody else. She is calling me for some reason Robert.
    And I am a lady YOU SILLY.

    My apologies, miss.

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  • @Den Lille Abe
    Or you can look at what has been done in Norway. Norway is the leading country, in combating crime.
    But it is no wonder "jail" birds there, live better than half of US population. Tsk -tsk.
    How about you redistribute wealth in the US, spent less on being an Empire?
    The US is a rich country, but the riches are owned by 0.001 %.

    Or you can look at what has been done in Norway.

    Yeah; fill the country with Norwegians. Good idea.

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  • @joef
    Yes, end the war on drugs libertarians demand; good idea, but not one that will necessarily solve the problem. What suburban cupcake dwelling libertarians (they are as pathologically naive as any liberal) don't understand is that afros commit the preponderance of crimes independently of the drug war as well. That they are not hating whitey just because we are enforcing drug laws. When an afro carjacks a White person, gang rapes a Hispanic girl, or robs a Chinese delivery guy, the ending of the drug war is not going to help those victims. The problem of afro initiated violence against non blacks is like an inferno as compared to a candle flame.

    But why think about the crime victims when we can pontificate from afar, nice & safe in cupcake land, about ending drug wars. Libertarians come out with this feel good pontificating of utopian ideals, just as socialist do; only one wants no govt, and the other wants all govt, to bring about fanciful utopia. Both are devoid of the hard earned real world experience. For the uninformed, afros did not invade non black city neighborhoods because of the drug war. They attacked these neighborhoods because of sociopathic hate and avarice. Afros killed more people in this nation than any other group over the last half century. And it is only wishful thinking to believe that they will stop because the drug war ended (as good of an idea as it is).

    End the drug war and then we will talk is easy to say when you live outside the consequences

    When the various levels of government are not wasting money waging war on the American people with the drug war, they can put that money to better use arresting actual criminals. But the government forces don’t like that plan. Arresting a white guy for pot is a lot safer than dealing with black criminals.

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    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
    Exactly correct, Chris. The amount of money spent on the drug war is enormous. Even if the drug war's enthusiasts were allowed to keep all other drugs illegal, they won't even consider legalizing marijuana.

    I see that among some faux conservatives here, "libertarian" is a derogatory term. I'm no libertarian, nor am I a liberal but I've had that insult thrown at me by republicans who haven't a shred of conservative principal about them, just because I see the drug war as a simple power grab by politicians of both parties.
    , @joef
    The problem with modern libertarians is not their ideas; the problem with modern libertarians today is they are cuckservatives, just like neocons, republicans, corporatist are. They are pandering political cowards, who hide behind libertarian policies, in order to avoid criticizing afros (pathetically hiding behind their nuanced thinking in order to avoid a difficult subject). They fail to acknowledge (actually more like unwilling to acknowledge) all the non black victims of afro initiated violent crime. Thus the statement about not doing anything about it without revoking the drug war first, before addressing the massive scale of afro violence upon their fellow citizens. So let me get this straight: all the millions of past non black victims of afro violence, and all the future victims, should be ignored until a pet libertarian agenda is addressed.

    Your ideology is more important then all the real people who suffered over the past half century from afro initiated violence? I am not a White Nationalist (I am a paleocon), but at least they have the fortitude to recognize racial realism when they describe the afro problem. Libertarians don't even have the adequate life experience to accurately describe the problem [such as a cop who arrests a white guy for pot smoking is mutually exclusive from arresting black criminals because: the former takes place in suburban cup cake land, and the later takes place in the inner city where the priority is all the homicides that are taking place... if libertarian dreamers had real life experience, they would know that those locations are not the same... but hey just like a leftist, to a libertarian, favored ideology trumps reality].

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  • @Anonymous


    I know i pick on you and youre such a dark enlightenment jew and all what more can i possibly ask of you? Ok you want to stay, then this is what it takes
     
    Ilyana_Rozumova is not a Jew. He's a Russian who finds the stupidity of the West to be chest-burstingly funny.

    I do think that she is mistaking me for somebody else. She is calling me for some reason Robert.
    And I am a lady YOU SILLY.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    My apologies, miss.
    , @norse nestor
    russians are called ivan

    as per propre etiquette
    , @Twodees Partain
    Ilyana, I apologize in advance for doxing you by way of this video about your boyfriend in Ukraine:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wdd-JNJtsYc
    , @Anonymous

    And I am a lady YOU SILLY.
     
    Margaret Thatcher is quoted as saying something like:

    Being powerful is like being a lady. If you have to say it, you are not.
     
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  • @Colleen Pater
    while its admirable the jew is hating on blacks so consistently he really does seem to be dragging a black herring to distract from the real problem. whites are so evolved that we can not safely tolerate multiculturalism its odd then we are the only people that have it and are expected to open every last one of our nations to it even after decades of proof of its toxicity to us. Why is this? Because its good for the jews who would rather live skimming off us and save the resources they might have to expend building and maintaining a nation the size of the west themselves. So no robert we cant go back to the stocks and the cat o nine tails, its not a coincidence whites and only whites have done away with these things. And while i get you at least see what the jewish multicultural project now is not good for the jews with their fingerprints all over it and all. There's a much better simpler saner and natural solution; we all just part amicably and live in our safe spaces from which we can interact with each other.yeah i get you would rather whip the blacks than live in tel aviv, but the thing is blacks for all there stupidity and violence were not such a problem until the jews saw the potential in inciting them. But incite them you did and there's not going to be any whipping of oprah or obama ever again that cat you let out of the bag.

    I know i pick on you and youre such a dark enlightenment jew and all what more can i possibly ask of you? Ok you want to stay, then this is what it takes. stop with the whip the negro articles and lay out the jewish problem get real about what you did why and how its almost impossible to ever trust you guys. then come up with a way jews could be trusted to stay. heres some ideas

    admit what you did admit your tribalist nature that compels you

    declare yourselves not jews but white and against all multiculturalism in white nations

    lay out a plan to prevent jews from identifying their otherness, this would have to be so drastic forced in vitro fertilization of non jewish children or laws that forbid 1/8 jews from positions of power to encourage outbreeding by jews, and the illegalism of jewish religion or identification jews who identify must emigrate.

    Assumption that Jews hate black is wrong.
    Jews do not hate anybody they only look down on everybody.
    The problem with Jews is that they are high stake gamblers.
    Jews were always persecuted from dawn of time.
    They never experienced security.
    Jews are people that should be pitied.
    At this point of time they decided that US as a most powerful nation in the world, US should rule the all world. And because they rule the US the result would be that they finally would have achieved security, and as a result they could live like any another people be happy and carefree.
    …………………………………………………………………………………………………
    Unfortunately things are not working out, as we now see it.
    Zionist Jews are not really evil. they are only manipulating US government for their own goal.
    What is happening in US now does worry me. There is a chance that US will encounter condition that would result in anger of the people, and that anger would inevitable lead to putting blame on Jews.

    Concerning holocaust it is pointless to argue how many Jews did die. The greatest crime in this case was that Germans made no distinction between Jews whose gilt could have been proven, and Jews who were totally innocent.
    My opinion is that collective punishment is the greatest crime humanity could commit.

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    • Replies: @Colleen Pater
    Being a new yorker i even like jews personally but i have also watched for 60 years what they have worked to achieve. Its true as you say their strategy has been to rule the US as a way to achieve security. however It's untrue the way you describe the situation. They came to rule the US through means of distorting (granted it didn't take much distortion) enlightenment and christian principles to implement communism and later when that failed racial redistributionism. Yes they also used the traditional jewish methods of taking over key centers of power in the nations they infiltrate. but the development of industrialized information and propaganda was a perfect storm they exploited well. So when as you say they are blamed the blame will be well placed. They destroyed the US in order to rule the US and now the extent of the destruction is being understood, its inevitable and right that they should be held responsible. Your assertion that this behavior of their is somehow justified because they have never found security is absurd. They have never found security is no justification for destroying another's nation particularly the nation that saved them from extinction. But its really much worse than this. They had to be saved from extinction precisely because they were caught running the same game in europe as they have succeeded in running in the USA. They had destroyed russia and were moving on to germany when the germans realized it was nazis or or commie jews and they chose their own. unfortunately the US and UK were already well pozd and had their own empire ambitions so were easily allied with the jews to destroy germany. And yeah The nazis were not the greatest thing but just like the US is facing now the people had a choice between cucked establisjhment, rabid commie jews and populism. But really its even worse because the insecurity of the jews has for thousands of years been because the jews have chosen a strategy of parasitism. rather than expel the effort and time into building and maintaining a nation of ones own they have always and everywhere instead elected to target others nations and selectively target key power centers thus concentrating their energies. This they always think will give them security and always backfires because they can not bring themselves to assimilate and so always act in the interest of themselves as other and not in the interest of the nation they live in, over time they can not help pushing the limitation of this strategy until it backfires. Instead of understanding this repeatedly un wise move for what it is instead they use the long list of theri treachery and bad strategy as evidence that they are universally disliked.well its human nature to dislike someone coming in to your home and abusing you, what is to be expected.This time they have really upped their treachery and have for almost 150 years been orchestrating an invasion of the us by peoples not of the founding stock first southern and eastern europeans many jewish and as soon as they had that established beachhead non whites these past 50 years. They publicly stand up and instruct these foreigners in how to destroy america and deconstruct white privilege we are now at the point where they openly talk of the genocide of white in white nations as a goal. well yeah they're gonna get blamed for that and yeah again they have overplayed their hand. and despite liking many jews personally Im going to have a hard time giving a shit when the so called good ones are deported long with the ring leaders. because you know they're smart enough to know whats been going on, no social subtlety ever escapes them they of the micro aggression and deconstruction they know all of them perfectly well what most of them have been about.They have had 150 years to stop this they had world war two to demonstrate this strategy is not wise and that all others are not secret haters. They are simply genetically unable to alter their strategy unless forced out and into their own land.
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  • Yes, end the war on drugs libertarians demand; good idea, but not one that will necessarily solve the problem. What suburban cupcake dwelling libertarians (they are as pathologically naive as any liberal) don’t understand is that afros commit the preponderance of crimes independently of the drug war as well. That they are not hating whitey just because we are enforcing drug laws. When an afro carjacks a White person, gang rapes a Hispanic girl, or robs a Chinese delivery guy, the ending of the drug war is not going to help those victims. The problem of afro initiated violence against non blacks is like an inferno as compared to a candle flame.

    But why think about the crime victims when we can pontificate from afar, nice & safe in cupcake land, about ending drug wars. Libertarians come out with this feel good pontificating of utopian ideals, just as socialist do; only one wants no govt, and the other wants all govt, to bring about fanciful utopia. Both are devoid of the hard earned real world experience. For the uninformed, afros did not invade non black city neighborhoods because of the drug war. They attacked these neighborhoods because of sociopathic hate and avarice. Afros killed more people in this nation than any other group over the last half century. And it is only wishful thinking to believe that they will stop because the drug war ended (as good of an idea as it is).

    End the drug war and then we will talk is easy to say when you live outside the consequences

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    • Troll: Twodees Partain
    • Replies: @Chris Mallory
    When the various levels of government are not wasting money waging war on the American people with the drug war, they can put that money to better use arresting actual criminals. But the government forces don't like that plan. Arresting a white guy for pot is a lot safer than dealing with black criminals.
    , @Wizard of Oz
    Maybe some of those that you characterise as libertarians who want to end "the drug war" are a little less simpleminded than you portray them as and have some more nuanced thoughts about drugs and crime than you bother to investigate. What about finding out what the more detailed policy proposals are/might be and assessing those.
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  • @Tbbh
    Execution prevents ALL recidivism.

    We’d end up with an execution industrial complex. Some big pharmaceutical company would end up charging the government tens of thousands of dollars for the drugs they use for executions. Then the lobbying and the kickbacks would start.

    40 years later, execution would be the punishment for just about every crime.

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  • Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Colleen Pater
    while its admirable the jew is hating on blacks so consistently he really does seem to be dragging a black herring to distract from the real problem. whites are so evolved that we can not safely tolerate multiculturalism its odd then we are the only people that have it and are expected to open every last one of our nations to it even after decades of proof of its toxicity to us. Why is this? Because its good for the jews who would rather live skimming off us and save the resources they might have to expend building and maintaining a nation the size of the west themselves. So no robert we cant go back to the stocks and the cat o nine tails, its not a coincidence whites and only whites have done away with these things. And while i get you at least see what the jewish multicultural project now is not good for the jews with their fingerprints all over it and all. There's a much better simpler saner and natural solution; we all just part amicably and live in our safe spaces from which we can interact with each other.yeah i get you would rather whip the blacks than live in tel aviv, but the thing is blacks for all there stupidity and violence were not such a problem until the jews saw the potential in inciting them. But incite them you did and there's not going to be any whipping of oprah or obama ever again that cat you let out of the bag.

    I know i pick on you and youre such a dark enlightenment jew and all what more can i possibly ask of you? Ok you want to stay, then this is what it takes. stop with the whip the negro articles and lay out the jewish problem get real about what you did why and how its almost impossible to ever trust you guys. then come up with a way jews could be trusted to stay. heres some ideas

    admit what you did admit your tribalist nature that compels you

    declare yourselves not jews but white and against all multiculturalism in white nations

    lay out a plan to prevent jews from identifying their otherness, this would have to be so drastic forced in vitro fertilization of non jewish children or laws that forbid 1/8 jews from positions of power to encourage outbreeding by jews, and the illegalism of jewish religion or identification jews who identify must emigrate.

    I know i pick on you and youre such a dark enlightenment jew and all what more can i possibly ask of you? Ok you want to stay, then this is what it takes

    Ilyana_Rozumova is not a Jew. He’s a Russian who finds the stupidity of the West to be chest-burstingly funny.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
    I do think that she is mistaking me for somebody else. She is calling me for some reason Robert.
    And I am a lady YOU SILLY.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Talha
    Someone wrote a book on this concept:
    https://www.chronicle.com/article/In-Defense-of-Flogging/127208

    Problem is that prison is now an industry upon which many, many jobs depend.

    Peace.

    Problem is that prison is now an industry upon which many, many jobs depend.

    And lots of profits. Take any of our boondoggles in this country (prison system, health care, endless war, war on drugs) and you’ll find that a handful of people are getting filthy rich from it. that’s why nothing is ever dealt with.

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  • @WorkingClass
    Click bait for sadists. End the war on drugs. Then we'll talk.

    I can not agree more with that. Your comment was the best I have read here all day.
    Thank you for being sane and normal, and display that you can think.

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  • Click bait for sadists. End the war on drugs. Then we’ll talk.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Den Lille Abe
    I can not agree more with that. Your comment was the best I have read here all day.
    Thank you for being sane and normal, and display that you can think.
    , @MBlanc46
    End the war on drugs and they’ll find some other excuse to shoot at each other.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • In 1969, as a good citizen, I was drafted and went to Army Basic. Our company had half a dozen big city hoodlums who were there instead of jail. How’s that for punishment? Plus they had plenty of access to firearms and knives. Oh, and they were headed to Cook School, not any branch that directly faced the enemy, like me.

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    • Replies: @Truth

    Oh, and they were headed to Cook School, not any branch that directly faced the enemy, like me.
     
    Well heck, I guess the 85IQ thing is a little off, then.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Ilyana_Rozumova
    Good idea. Maybe somebody could come up even with better.
    But please no jokes.

    while its admirable the jew is hating on blacks so consistently he really does seem to be dragging a black herring to distract from the real problem. whites are so evolved that we can not safely tolerate multiculturalism its odd then we are the only people that have it and are expected to open every last one of our nations to it even after decades of proof of its toxicity to us. Why is this? Because its good for the jews who would rather live skimming off us and save the resources they might have to expend building and maintaining a nation the size of the west themselves. So no robert we cant go back to the stocks and the cat o nine tails, its not a coincidence whites and only whites have done away with these things. And while i get you at least see what the jewish multicultural project now is not good for the jews with their fingerprints all over it and all. There’s a much better simpler saner and natural solution; we all just part amicably and live in our safe spaces from which we can interact with each other.yeah i get you would rather whip the blacks than live in tel aviv, but the thing is blacks for all there stupidity and violence were not such a problem until the jews saw the potential in inciting them. But incite them you did and there’s not going to be any whipping of oprah or obama ever again that cat you let out of the bag.

    I know i pick on you and youre such a dark enlightenment jew and all what more can i possibly ask of you? Ok you want to stay, then this is what it takes. stop with the whip the negro articles and lay out the jewish problem get real about what you did why and how its almost impossible to ever trust you guys. then come up with a way jews could be trusted to stay. heres some ideas

    admit what you did admit your tribalist nature that compels you

    declare yourselves not jews but white and against all multiculturalism in white nations

    lay out a plan to prevent jews from identifying their otherness, this would have to be so drastic forced in vitro fertilization of non jewish children or laws that forbid 1/8 jews from positions of power to encourage outbreeding by jews, and the illegalism of jewish religion or identification jews who identify must emigrate.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous


    I know i pick on you and youre such a dark enlightenment jew and all what more can i possibly ask of you? Ok you want to stay, then this is what it takes
     
    Ilyana_Rozumova is not a Jew. He's a Russian who finds the stupidity of the West to be chest-burstingly funny.
    , @Ilyana_Rozumova
    Assumption that Jews hate black is wrong.
    Jews do not hate anybody they only look down on everybody.
    The problem with Jews is that they are high stake gamblers.
    Jews were always persecuted from dawn of time.
    They never experienced security.
    Jews are people that should be pitied.
    At this point of time they decided that US as a most powerful nation in the world, US should rule the all world. And because they rule the US the result would be that they finally would have achieved security, and as a result they could live like any another people be happy and carefree.
    ...............................................................................................................
    Unfortunately things are not working out, as we now see it.
    Zionist Jews are not really evil. they are only manipulating US government for their own goal.
    What is happening in US now does worry me. There is a chance that US will encounter condition that would result in anger of the people, and that anger would inevitable lead to putting blame on Jews.

    Concerning holocaust it is pointless to argue how many Jews did die. The greatest crime in this case was that Germans made no distinction between Jews whose gilt could have been proven, and Jews who were totally innocent.
    My opinion is that collective punishment is the greatest crime humanity could commit.
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  • There are a few challenges to this, but that is to be expected when anyone tries to think outside the prison box.

    Shame can operate as a tool of rehab, but shame is felt when we see ourselves as others see us. Hester Prynne feels shame because she is constantly reminded of how others view her. (Interestingly, in time it is the community around her that changes, because they forget what the A stood for in the first place.) With culprits who are sociopathic, morally disconnected from society or just plain don’t give a damn, trying to inflict shame for misdeeds may not be persuasive. These people don’t give a hoot how others see them. (This interpretation of shame, by the way, is not mine. It’s something I remember from reading Sartre’s Being and Nothingness, nearly 50 years ago. So, if you have issue with it, take it up with Jean Paul.) Shame works as a tool for rehab when there is a common moral code, such as the religious code in The Scarlet Letter, but fails in a pluralistic society where anything goes and people don’t even know each other.

    By your suggestion, anyone arrested, yet not convicted, could opt for a few days in the Freak Cage in lieu of prosecution. As if we weren’t desensitized enough, this would be quite a show. Just imagine Antifa show offs and BLM morons partying around the cages, making captive “victims” into 15 minute cult heroes. What a disaster. Our “justice system” is a big enough joke as it is, without taking the Shame Cage to a mall for public viewing. I don’t think the community would coalesce around the Shame Cage with a spirit of community, or even common fear of similar treatment. A State Fair midway on closing night might be a more apt comparison.

    As you say, different strokes for different folks. For me, godawful punishment would be staring at a portrait of Dennis Rodman and I would invoke the 8th Amendment prohibition against cruel and unusual punishment. For others, BLMers maybe, required listening to an audiobook of Huckleberry Finn could push them over the edge.

    Steven Paul Foster reminds us of the teenage boy who was caned in Singapore for painting graffiti on a building. I recall some whining and hand wringing in the States over that. A Singaporean friend once asked me how Americans’ viewed that caning and I told him many, including myself, approved. It works in cohesive, self respecting cultures like Singapore. That’s because public humiliation and punishment are effective methods of rehabilitation where there is a common core value system and people can at least agree on what’s right and what’s wrong. If your social fabric has all kinds of deviant threads and you can find some weird group that will take you in no matter how crazy you are, the effect is lessened. Still, caning is cheaper and more effective than counseling, sharing and group hugs. I’d sooner be whipped than talk to Oprah.

    Maybe one way to put the screws on repeat offenders would be to make them ineligible for welfare. Offer welfare benefits to the law abiding only, or better yet, nobody.

    Last, sometimes the miscreants can think up their own best punishment, if we will just let them do it. Back around 1965, the Hells Angels motorcycle gang petitioned the US government to let them go to Viet Nam to fight. They thought since they were a public nuisance in the States and acted threatening on their Harleys, they could go into the jungle and kick ass on the Viet Cong. Their president, Sonny Barger, held a press conference where, surrounded by unkempt Neanderthals, he pronounced, “The Hells Angles would make good gorillas.” And that’s no joke. They were turned down.

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  • @Mark Green
    Weissberg is on to something here. Here's a suggestion: repeat violent criminals should be publicly whipped.

    I agree but this punishment is so obviously “racist” that I did not mention it. And, there are so many other shame related options. How about making them use old-fashioned flip phones and wearing Birkenstocks and socks? How about male sexual offenders having to wear white wedding dresses in public? So many possibilities, so few criminals.

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    • Replies: @Talha

    I agree but this punishment is so obviously “racist” that I did not mention it.
     
    Have it carried out by a big Black dude under all circumstances that looks like this guy:
    https://i.pinimg.com/736x/f4/01/84/f4018458fc1f87c4ea3e28a9d49b2c9f--wwe-wrestlers-sports-stars.jpg

    ...problem solved - you'll get more mileage per swing - and it involves affirmative action. You're welcome.

    Peace.
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  • Incarcerating people for mere possession of ANY substance or item is just plain WRONG.
    End the second American “drug war”…

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  • @Mark Green
    Weissberg is on to something here. Here's a suggestion: repeat violent criminals should be publicly whipped.

    Yes, absolutely. Public flogging, I would bet the house, would significantly reduce crime. Barbaric? Visit Detroit or south Chicago to see what barbarity in the U.S. is all about. About 20 years ago an American teenager, I think it was in Singapore, was vandalizing stuff and was given 12 or 15 lashes. Amazingly, there was enormous American public support for it. “Why don’t they do that here?” My guess is that kid was no repeat offender.

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    • Replies: @The Alarmist
    I lived in Singapore when that sniveling, spoiled American yewt, Michael Fay, was caned for vandalism. It served the little shit right, because it reflected poorly on the rest of us.

    He went back to America and was involved in a series of escapades, largely because the US is a land with no serious consequences for anti-social behaviour.

    On another note, we can always think of new forms of Trial by Ordeal, and better still, televise it to raise revenue and publicly shame to a broader audience.

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Tbbh
    Execution prevents ALL recidivism.

    Execution prevents ALL recidivism.

    Who do you want to do the killing? Because if you give the government the license to kill you’re going end up with a pile of dead bodies with nothing to show for it – every time. No safer cities, no reduced crime rates, nothing except a bill for the tax payer.
    Those in power never kill the right people – like themselves.

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    • Replies: @bomag

    a pile of dead bodies with nothing to show for it
     
    We've got that now.

    As far as the gov't reflects collective action, we can certainly try something new on a small scale as a start.

    That the thing might get hacked by the usual psychopaths is one more problem to account for.

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  • Again I ask: Are Mr. Weissberg’s witless whack-a-black columns subject to a minimum word count? They read like a beery, late September conversation in a freshman dorm — the last guy trying to fit in pushes the silly button too hard, and it awkwardly ends.

    Then come the comments…

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    • Replies: @bomag
    Okaaaaay... one vote for the status quo. Got it.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Is this guy playing around with the idea of repeal of the Eighth Amendment? Tinkering with the Bill of Rights? Is that supposed to be conservative thinking?

    https://constitutioncenter.org/interactive-constitution/amendments/amendment-viii

    Meanwhile, …fresh off the Unz Review front page, thanks to Ryan Dawson:

    http://www.unz.com/video/ryandawson_1957-pre.acher-man/

    Some of USA’s problems seem to be culturally rooted, and criminality is one of them. Multiculturalism doesn’t provide any answer. Multiculturalism may well be a big part of the problem.

    Did not MLK arise from the same Christian culture as the rest of us? And the nine African Americans at the Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church in downtown Charleston, 17 June 2015?

    I can’t believe that the Bill of Rights is a problem.. . Amendment XIV? … hmmm …. Could we somehow trade in the Fourteenth to get the Tenth out of hock? I understand that Federal Courts are mandating all kinds of stuff for Moslem inmates in state lock-ups …

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  • Or you can look at what has been done in Norway. Norway is the leading country, in combating crime.
    But it is no wonder “jail” birds there, live better than half of US population. Tsk -tsk.
    How about you redistribute wealth in the US, spent less on being an Empire?
    The US is a rich country, but the riches are owned by 0.001 %.

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    • Replies: @bomag

    Or you can look at what has been done in Norway.
     
    Yeah; fill the country with Norwegians. Good idea.
    , @Solomon
    Norway has two things going for it:

    1. It is basically a petro-emirate. Huge profits from oil go to sovereign funds and distributed across a very small population.

    2. It is Norwegian. Meaning, a tight-nit, high trust homogeneous society with no underclass to speak of.

    Given 1 and 2, it doesn't really matter which policies Norway adopts. It could be a communist dictatorship or a techno-libertarian anarchy yet it will always have low crime, good healthcare and fine education. Other than the states of Vermont or South Dakota, the US has very little it can apply based on the Norwegian experience.
    , @FkDahl
    That is because Norway is mostly inhabited by Norwegians (not the Norwegian jails though). However as an example, over a 3 year period every single violent rapist in Oslo was a non-european man. (around 50 cases)!
    I am more familiar with the more extreme Swedish case: a very progressive, gentle criminal system, with focus on gentle punishment and reintegration is society (since crime per neo-marxist dogma is due to socioeconomic factors). And .. . it ...does ..not ...work ... not with the new people in the country with a very different attitude to internal shame and guilt.
    Crime is exploding in Sweden, with a massive over-representation for the usual suspects: MENA and Africans.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • “Quarantine” is the only process that protects the next victim. Chicago & Baltimore have gone “light” on punishment and their citizens are paying the price in blood.

    The only “School to Prison Pipeline” is in the hands and heads of the violent offenders. I know of no “cure” except age and isolation (to protect the innocent). There is absolutely no benefit to allowing the violent and uncontrollable to disrupt and destroy the educational opportunities of “normal” children. The violent are headed to a life of savagery; there’s no point on letting the violent ruin other lives as well.

    Protect victims by isolating the violent criminals so they can not harm “normals”. Prison is only “expensive” if you believe the inevitable future victims are worthless.

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  • Execution prevents ALL recidivism.

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    • Replies: @Biff

    Execution prevents ALL recidivism.
     
    Who do you want to do the killing? Because if you give the government the license to kill you’re going end up with a pile of dead bodies with nothing to show for it - every time. No safer cities, no reduced crime rates, nothing except a bill for the tax payer.
    Those in power never kill the right people - like themselves.
    , @Ploskina
    We'd end up with an execution industrial complex. Some big pharmaceutical company would end up charging the government tens of thousands of dollars for the drugs they use for executions. Then the lobbying and the kickbacks would start.

    40 years later, execution would be the punishment for just about every crime.
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  • Of course one must make the punishment fit the criminal. The necessary length of the rope depends upon his weight:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Official_Table_of_Drops

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  • won’t work–only solution to the Negro criminal problem is to mandate Norplant for welfare usage. The real criminals are their mothers and absent fathers.

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  • @Talha
    Someone wrote a book on this concept:
    https://www.chronicle.com/article/In-Defense-of-Flogging/127208

    Problem is that prison is now an industry upon which many, many jobs depend.

    Peace.

    Michael Fay, bamboo cane vs Saudi leather whips.

    http://www.nytimes.com/1994/06/26/us/us-student-tells-of-pain-of-his-caning-in-singapore.html

    Pretty sure if someone like Paul Logan or British soccer fans get flogged like that it will send a message.

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    • Replies: @Kam Phlodius
    It would send a message that white people are uniquely evil. We get that point driven home by TV every day here in the U.S.A. Methinks you are a typical Progressive: The thing you fear most is being called a racist. You read the Unz Review as a kind of guilty, secret pleasure.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Weissberg is on to something here. Here’s a suggestion: repeat violent criminals should be publicly whipped.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Stephen Paul Foster
    Yes, absolutely. Public flogging, I would bet the house, would significantly reduce crime. Barbaric? Visit Detroit or south Chicago to see what barbarity in the U.S. is all about. About 20 years ago an American teenager, I think it was in Singapore, was vandalizing stuff and was given 12 or 15 lashes. Amazingly, there was enormous American public support for it. "Why don't they do that here?" My guess is that kid was no repeat offender.
    , @Robert Weissberg
    I agree but this punishment is so obviously "racist" that I did not mention it. And, there are so many other shame related options. How about making them use old-fashioned flip phones and wearing Birkenstocks and socks? How about male sexual offenders having to wear white wedding dresses in public? So many possibilities, so few criminals.
    , @SteveRogers42
    Robert Heinlein agrees:

    http://www.magma.ca/~yeti/troopers.html
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  • Maybe the author and Sheriff Arpaio get the criminals into pink underwear and the world would right again?

    https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQXN7x2Jq6o4nUvq8XhzClUV-05l6YPsjSzohLAOR6rZtwPCEK2AOVr7Pk

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  • Good idea. Maybe somebody could come up even with better.
    But please no jokes.

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    • Replies: @Colleen Pater
    while its admirable the jew is hating on blacks so consistently he really does seem to be dragging a black herring to distract from the real problem. whites are so evolved that we can not safely tolerate multiculturalism its odd then we are the only people that have it and are expected to open every last one of our nations to it even after decades of proof of its toxicity to us. Why is this? Because its good for the jews who would rather live skimming off us and save the resources they might have to expend building and maintaining a nation the size of the west themselves. So no robert we cant go back to the stocks and the cat o nine tails, its not a coincidence whites and only whites have done away with these things. And while i get you at least see what the jewish multicultural project now is not good for the jews with their fingerprints all over it and all. There's a much better simpler saner and natural solution; we all just part amicably and live in our safe spaces from which we can interact with each other.yeah i get you would rather whip the blacks than live in tel aviv, but the thing is blacks for all there stupidity and violence were not such a problem until the jews saw the potential in inciting them. But incite them you did and there's not going to be any whipping of oprah or obama ever again that cat you let out of the bag.

    I know i pick on you and youre such a dark enlightenment jew and all what more can i possibly ask of you? Ok you want to stay, then this is what it takes. stop with the whip the negro articles and lay out the jewish problem get real about what you did why and how its almost impossible to ever trust you guys. then come up with a way jews could be trusted to stay. heres some ideas

    admit what you did admit your tribalist nature that compels you

    declare yourselves not jews but white and against all multiculturalism in white nations

    lay out a plan to prevent jews from identifying their otherness, this would have to be so drastic forced in vitro fertilization of non jewish children or laws that forbid 1/8 jews from positions of power to encourage outbreeding by jews, and the illegalism of jewish religion or identification jews who identify must emigrate.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Someone wrote a book on this concept:

    https://www.chronicle.com/article/In-Defense-of-Flogging/127208

    Problem is that prison is now an industry upon which many, many jobs depend.

    Peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @ThatDamnGood
    Michael Fay, bamboo cane vs Saudi leather whips.

    http://www.nytimes.com/1994/06/26/us/us-student-tells-of-pain-of-his-caning-in-singapore.html

    Pretty sure if someone like Paul Logan or British soccer fans get flogged like that it will send a message.
    , @Sane Left Libertarian

    Problem is that prison is now an industry upon which many, many jobs depend.

     

    And lots of profits. Take any of our boondoggles in this country (prison system, health care, endless war, war on drugs) and you'll find that a handful of people are getting filthy rich from it. that's why nothing is ever dealt with.
    , @Hippopotamusdrome


    In-Defense-of-Flogging

     

    LOL. Ok.
    Whats your Name "Kunta Kinte"
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  • Drug Economics

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  • Dashed line is institutionalization rate (prison + asylum), solid line is homicide rate. First year is 1928, last year 2000. Crossover points are c. 1936 (homicides falling), c. 1968 (homicides rising), and c. 1996 (homicides falling). Most news media coverage you read about how we must End Mass Incarceration Now starts with the factoid that...
  • Kyle McKenna [AKA "Mika-Non"] says:
    @Jus' Sayin'...
    Our current system of incarceration's greatest contribution of to civic order is that it incapacitates criminals. While they are in prison they cannot harm law abiding citizens outside the walls. See my other post on this thread for an estimate of the incapacitating effect. Flogging would have no such effect. The movie "The Harder They Fall", set in 1970s Jamaica, where flogging was still a legal punishment, makes this point quite well.

    Unfortunately, prisoners who cannot harm those outside the walls still manage to inflict massive amounts of mayhem upon guards and other prisoners. The rampant rate at which Negro prisoners rape other inmates is an abomination created by the current corrections system and one that progs absolutely refuse to address.

    The rampant rate at which Negro prisoners rape other inmates is an abomination created by the current corrections system and one that progs absolutely refuse to address.

    Because the victims are wildly, disproportionately white. Therefore, to self-styled ‘progressives’ it’s a feature, not a bug. If (as the MSM likes to pretend) the victims were mostly minorities, a class-action lawsuit would have been won long ago–the constitution’s prohibition against cruel and unusual punishment invoked. But in practice blacks are used only if there aren’t enough whites to go ’round.

    An organisation called Stop Prisoner Rape used to maintain a harrowing series of accounts and statistics at spr.org. However I notice it’s been subsumed into another organisation focused upon minority rights.

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  • CJ says:
    @Hyperborean
    I read the paper and they seem mainly to be comparing longer prison sentences versus shorter sentences/parole. They do have a small section discussing the efficacy of punitive fines against middle/high class people who committed a minor crime preventing repeat offences. I agree that there is a section of the population that is completely irredeemable who would be better off simply spending as much time as possible isolated from the general population and doing physical labour or something time-consuming. I do think however that flogging can prevent repeat offences if they are aimed at the right subgroup of people i.e people who are not completely anti-social and actually have something to lose.

    I tried searching for the film but I could only find a boxing film from 1956, who is the director?
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    • Replies: @Hyperborean
    Thanks.
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